From scott at tactilemedia.com Wed Jun 1 00:25:35 2005 From: scott at tactilemedia.com (Scott Rossi) Date: Tue, 31 May 2005 21:25:35 -0700 Subject: Yet Another Clock In-Reply-To: <50045B60-A1C8-4B79-B6D0-D8E31EC89D5A@writeme.com> Message-ID: Recently, Dennis Brown wrote: >> At the risk of beating a dead clock, here is another more visual >> approach to >> the display of time which uses the points of a hidden graphic to >> determine the location of each "hand" (still pretty minimal/ >> efficient code). >> In your message box: >> >> go url "http://www.tactilemedia.com/download/ballclock.rev" > This is a very visually appealing display. > My only critical feedback is that the hour hand needs to advance one > "point" every 5 minutes. Otherwise, I have a hard time telling what > time it is when it is close to the hour. Thanks for your comments. This is interesting -- I actually wondered if it might be *easier* to tell the hour simply because the hour hand stays fixed directly at the current hour until it's time to change. In any event, it's more doable to change the hour every 12 minutes since there are only 5 points available between each hour -- this should accomplish the same net result since the hour hand will get closer to the next hour as it approaches. Thanks for the suggestion -- I'll give this a shot. Regards, Scott Rossi Creative Director Tactile Media, Multimedia & Design ----- E: scott at tactilemedia.com W: http://www.tactilemedia.com From paulclaude at postino.it Wed Jun 1 03:32:09 2005 From: paulclaude at postino.it (Paul Claude) Date: Wed, 01 Jun 2005 09:32:09 +0200 Subject: Icon menus on the right side of the menubar Message-ID: Is there anybody who knows a way to place a menu as "system menu", i.e. a global menu that you may access by every open application in the right side of menubar, as those managed by the SystemUIServer? I'd like to create an app that became invisible, letting only a little menu icon on the right side of the menubar, as MenuCalendarClock or WheatherMan does. Any suggest? From geoff at runrev.com Wed Jun 1 03:44:20 2005 From: geoff at runrev.com (Geoff Canyon) Date: Wed, 1 Jun 2005 00:44:20 -0700 Subject: Yet Another Clock In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: My first thought was that the whole thing could be reduced to periodic "move to the points of..." task. That doesn't work out very well. I tried: move image "sBall" to the points of grc "_ball" in 60 seconds That gave me a good second hand, but CPU usages was up at 70 percent. Not good. So I went for minor changes to the existing code. Below is a modified script. Changes: -- replaced currH,currM,currS with a local array. This complicates the repeat a bit because I have to track both 123 and HMS, but one statement -- put char i of "HMS" into C -- handles that. The upside is that I don't have to use value or do anywhere. -- replaced: if N = 0 then put 60 into N with: put (T[i] + 59) mod 60 + 1 into T[i] The advantage/necessity is that I'm now adding the minutes fraction to the hour position. It can now be greater than 60 (any time from 12:12 to 12:59) The new statement turns 0 into 60, leaves 1 to 60 alone, and turns 61,62,63... into 1,2,3... -- replaced the set the loc of image command into a move command. The balls look much nicer scooting along rather than jumping ;-) -- used split rather than itemDelimiter I think that's it, maybe there are a few other minor points. The line count dropped a bit. CPU usage with this script is about 8 percent. For comparison, the scripts from yesterday that set the startAngle of a graphic averaged about 1.5 percent. geoff on preOpenStack set loc of this stack to the screenLoc setTime end preOpenStack local sLocation -- array of the locations of the balls local ringPoints,ringLoc on setTime if ringPoints is empty then put the points of grc "_ring" into ringPoints if ringLoc is empty then put the loc of grc "_ring" into ringLoc put word 1 of the long time into T split T using ":" repeat with i = 1 to 3 put char i of "HMS" into C if i = 1 then put T[1] * 5 + T[2] div 12 into T[1] -- hours works off minutes as well put (T[i] + 59) mod 60 + 1 into T[i] if sLocation[i] = T[i] then next repeat move img (C & "ball") to (line T[i] of ringPoints) without waiting put T[i] into sLocation[i] set the points of grc (C & "seg") to (line T[i] of ringPoints),ringLoc end repeat send "setTime" to me in (1 - (the long seconds mod 1)) seconds end setTime From scott at tactilemedia.com Wed Jun 1 04:40:23 2005 From: scott at tactilemedia.com (Scott Rossi) Date: Wed, 01 Jun 2005 01:40:23 -0700 Subject: Yet Another Clock In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Recently, Geoff Canyon wrote: > My first thought was that the whole thing could be reduced to > periodic "move to the points of..." task. That doesn't work out very > well. I tried: > > move image "sBall" to the points of grc "_ball" in 60 seconds > > That gave me a good second hand, but CPU usages was up at 70 percent. > Not good. So I went for minor changes to the existing code. > > ... > > CPU usage with this script is about 8 percent. > For comparison, the scripts from yesterday that set the startAngle of > a graphic averaged about 1.5 percent. Well, with the stack I originally posted, CPU usage runs between 1 and 2 percent here. But the move you added is so nice it easily warrants the extra usage. Nice Geoff. :-) Movado, eat your heart out. Regards, Scott Rossi Creative Director Tactile Media, Multimedia & Design ----- E: scott at tactilemedia.com W: http://www.tactilemedia.com From scott at tactilemedia.com Wed Jun 1 05:03:14 2005 From: scott at tactilemedia.com (Scott Rossi) Date: Wed, 01 Jun 2005 02:03:14 -0700 Subject: Yet Another Clock In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Amongst the debris of springs, gears and coils that have resulted from clocks being beaten into the ground, you will see the oh-so-creatively named "ballclock II" is now available. In your message box: go url "http://www.tactilemedia.com/download/ballclock2.rev" Many many thanks to Geoff Canyon for his watchmaker-like enhancements. Regards, Scott Rossi Creative Director Tactile Media, Multimedia & Design ----- E: scott at tactilemedia.com W: http://www.tactilemedia.com From alex at tweedly.net Wed Jun 1 06:06:32 2005 From: alex at tweedly.net (Alex Tweedly) Date: Wed, 01 Jun 2005 11:06:32 +0100 Subject: Broadband Optimizer for Revolution? In-Reply-To: <6be1e18cc944f4ce283bce115fff9105@swcp.com> References: <199.3fff045a.2fc8917f@aol.com> <429CA1B8.6070600@tweedly.net> <17188950874.20050531114351@ahsoftware.net> <32908c1be700feac4258c0394b3e9054@swcp.com> <429CF14B.4030602@tweedly.net> <6be1e18cc944f4ce283bce115fff9105@swcp.com> Message-ID: <429D88A8.8050303@tweedly.net> Dar Scott wrote: > > I couldn't find any reference to "transmit window" or "slow start" in > rfc 793. I don't see how it's part of TCP, proper. "transmit window" came into common usage sometime around the early 90s - to refer to the sender's view of the congestion window. An application trying to figure out if it is near to congestion (and perhaps vary the info it is sending accordingly) should probably use this rather than the size of the congestion window (though of course, since it's TCP not everyone agree on that). slow start (and congestion avoidance - independent ideas but a merged implementation) was first described and implemented by Van in 1988, and then in rfc 1122 (Host requirements) congestion avoidance became a required feature for TCP implementations. It became a formal part of the rfc system in rfc2001 - but that was long after it had become common. slow start undoubtedly is part of TCP proper; the use of the term "transmit window" is not defined by any rfc (afaik - didn't search to check), but is ubiquitous in the IETF community. I think the term transmit window is worthwhile since it expresses the fact that the congestion window being used is that seen by the sender, whereas the congestion window can be manipulated by both sender and receiver. > The "send window" is really just the senders view of the standard TCP > window and should not refer to self-limitations of the sender. > Even so, thanks for this info. > > I think you're saying that the "congestion window" used by some > implementations is limited by both the TCP window (called "receive > window" by some) and some configuration called the "transmit window". > Not quite - see the terminology in rfc2001 (slightly different from what 793 had used). The advertised window is what the receiver advertised. The congestion window is the sender's modification of that - varied both by sender's configuration and more importantly by congestion that has occurred. > This imposes a minimum on the transmit buffer size, and it seems you > are saying that the practice is also to make this the maximum on the > transmit buffer. Did I get that right? > No, I don't think it imposes a minimum on the transmit size; why would it ? -- Alex Tweedly http://www.tweedly.net -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.322 / Virus Database: 267.3.0 - Release Date: 30/05/2005 From dcragg at lacscentre.co.uk Wed Jun 1 06:13:42 2005 From: dcragg at lacscentre.co.uk (Dave Cragg) Date: Wed, 1 Jun 2005 11:13:42 +0100 Subject: Rev crashes when getting back web pages contents In-Reply-To: References: <9b0f5739558e98a7078ec547bf540848@mac.com> <28246857fbf60eefa53720115b33835f@mac.com> Message-ID: <2DCEF3A1-AAB4-4DE8-AB4F-0712FDD56100@lacscentre.co.uk> On 31 May 2005, at 21:11, Eric Chatonet wrote: > Hi Andre, > > >> Shall we name 31 of may the spooky Rev day? >> > > I am afraid yes :-( > In addition, I noticed that when you repeat a get Url (the same > one) many times, you may have an empty result (1/50). > There are workarounds for this issue but when Rev crashes (and > sometimes badly with the blue screen on Mac OS X), I push the > restart button but it does not give me any solution... > Before contacting the Rev support team, I would know if anyone has > tried to retrieve many internet urls in a row and which problems he/ > she has encountered. > As for your case, I am stuck too. > Good luck to us :-) > I regularly get a sequence of up to 5000 urls when testing liburl. I don't get any problems. The crashing sounds worrying. I'd guess it's either related to the data you're downloading, or just the volume of data you're accumulating. To try and isolate the problem, can you do a series of downloads without doing anything to the data (i.e just discard it) and see what happens. Something like the following: ## assuming tUrlList is a list of urls repeat for each line tUrl in tUrlList get url tUrl put length(it) into tLength put the result into tRes if tRes is empty then put "OK" into tRes put tUrl & tab & tRes & tab & tLength & cr after field "res" end repeat Cheers Dave From europe at ehug.info Wed Jun 1 06:52:10 2005 From: europe at ehug.info (Mark Schonewille) Date: Wed, 01 Jun 2005 12:52:10 +0200 Subject: Filter In-Reply-To: <18431053232.20050430165400@ahsoftware.net> References: <42734F20.2050207@ehug.info> <427359EB.3090603@tweedly.net> <18431053232.20050430165400@ahsoftware.net> Message-ID: <429D935A.9010303@ehug.info> Hi Mark and Alex, Thanks for replying. Are you saying that really only the regex rules as described in the little regex syntax window of the docs in Revolution are valid in Transcript? The docs clearly say to have a look at some Perl website for further info on regex. Perhaps this reference should be removed from the docs, for now. Best, Mark Mark Wieder wrote: > Alex- > > Saturday, April 30, 2005, 3:11:55 AM, you wrote: > > AT> You're using "filter" as though it tok any normal Regular Epression. It > AT> doesn't - only > > I'm constantly running up against this one, too, so I just filed > bugzilla #2805 for regex extensions in the filter command. > > http://support.runrev.com/bugdatabase/show_bug.cgi?id=2805 > -- eHUG coordinator mailto:europe at ehug.info http://home.wanadoo.nl/mark.sch http://www.ehug.info From eric.chatonet at sosmartsoftware.com Wed Jun 1 07:37:29 2005 From: eric.chatonet at sosmartsoftware.com (Eric Chatonet) Date: Wed, 1 Jun 2005 13:37:29 +0200 Subject: Rev crashes when getting back web pages contents In-Reply-To: <2DCEF3A1-AAB4-4DE8-AB4F-0712FDD56100@lacscentre.co.uk> References: <9b0f5739558e98a7078ec547bf540848@mac.com> <28246857fbf60eefa53720115b33835f@mac.com> <2DCEF3A1-AAB4-4DE8-AB4F-0712FDD56100@lacscentre.co.uk> Message-ID: <06E8C689-03FD-4B11-B656-FCF1921C2651@sosmartsoftware.com> Hi Dave, I did it :-) After many tests (writing a log file to understand), I can tell: Yes it seems to work fine when you only get a sequence of urls even if sometimes the returned data are empty when you know they are not. But that's not a problem :-) The problem comes in unpredictably when you set the htmlText of a field to the url you got... Sometimes there is not any problem, sometimes Rev crashes :-( I made my tests with a list of 30 urls leading to Rev related websites: light pages... Mac OS 10.4.1/Rev build 77 Best regards from Paris, Eric Chatonet. Le 1 juin 05 ? 12:13, Dave Cragg a ?crit : > I regularly get a sequence of up to 5000 urls when testing liburl. > I don't get any problems. > > The crashing sounds worrying. I'd guess it's either related to the > data you're downloading, or just the volume of data you're > accumulating. > > To try and isolate the problem, can you do a series of downloads > without doing anything to the data (i.e just discard it) and see > what happens. Something like the following: > > ## assuming tUrlList is a list of urls > repeat for each line tUrl in tUrlList > get url tUrl > put length(it) into tLength > put the result into tRes > if tRes is empty then put "OK" into tRes > put tUrl & tab & tRes & tab & tLength & cr after field "res" > end repeat > > Cheers > Dave ---------------------------------------------------------------- So Smart Software For institutions, companies and associations Built-to-order applications: management, multimedia, internet, etc. Windows, Mac OS and Linux... With the French touch Plugins, tutorials and more on our website ---------------------------------------------------------------- Web site http://www.sosmartsoftware.com/ Email eric.chatonet at sosmartsoftware.com/ Phone 33 (0)1 43 31 77 62 Mobile 33 (0)6 20 74 50 86 ---------------------------------------------------------------- From FlexibleLearning at aol.com Wed Jun 1 08:52:01 2005 From: FlexibleLearning at aol.com (FlexibleLearning at aol.com) Date: Wed, 1 Jun 2005 08:52:01 EDT Subject: [ANN] The Scripter's Scrapbook version 5 Message-ID: <6d.4663794e.2fcf0971@aol.com> 1st JUNE 2005 The Flexible Learning Company (http://www.FlexibleLearning.com) Announcing the Scripter's Scrapbook v5 "the personal reference library for all programmers" The Flexible Learning Company is delighted to announce the arrival of the Scripter's Scrapbook version 5, the personal reference library for all programmers. This is a major upgrade with more Internet capabilities, hence the delay since the last increment. We hope you will find it not only useful but also a meeting point for fellow software authors, whatever your platform, interest and level of expertise. Every Scrapbook runs 'as is' under Windows, Mac and OSX, with download options to suit your personal preferences and ways of working. Information about version 5: _http://www.flexiblelearning.com/ssbk/ReadMe.html_ (http://www.flexiblelearning.com/ssbk/ReadMe.html) Testimonials: _http://www.flexiblelearning.com/ssbk/testimonials.html_ (http://www.flexiblelearning.com/ssbk/testimonials.html) Existing Users: Select 'Checking for Updates' in the Help menu of your current Scrapbook. New Users: A 'starter system' is available from _http://www.flexiblelearning.com/ssbk.htm_ (http://www.flexiblelearning.com/ssbk.htm) What's New? In short, a lot. First, the emphasis has been to maintain the program style you are used to, so although the range of features and benefits is greatly expanded, you get to choose how much or how little you want to access within the security of familiarity. Secondly, spreading the scope to embrace all language platforms. Most of us use more than one program, even if Rev is best :-) >From FileMaker, Flash and AppleScript to VB.net, C and html, whatever your circumstances, the Scripter's Scrapbook aims to provide the support you want. And since it is written entirely in transcript, we feel that it also represents the power of Revolution and transcript as a development language! The ReadMe link will give you the run-down of the key enhancements, but a few tasty morsels include... - ssBk Chat, based on ChatRev but customized and enhanced to meet the needs of the new version including direct Scrapbook-to-Scrapbook transfers. - On-Line Publisher and Browser, so you can upload, share, and grab useful solutions all direct within your Scrapbook. The more that is contributed, the greater the choice will be. Over 180 different languages are available to post under, so we hope that multi-lingual as well as mono-lingual authors will benefit. - Fully customisable Language associations for the flexibility to decide your own set-up. - Additional script and code colorizing, including AppleScript, Flash, JavaScript, PERL, REALBasic, SQL, Toolbook, VB, VB.net, and VBScript - Future updates are completely automated, so all your preferences, settings and existing Entries are transferred for you. - Text formatting, a tab ruler, line numbering and additional built-in icons all aimed to give you presentational control. - Multi-styled Web publishing layout choices with an optional hyperlink index lets you keep and share 'hard copy' automatically in a convenient cross-platform format. - Drag and drop archive restore, instantly importing backups or subsets. This means that one Scrapbook can be used to manage an unlimited number of record sets and is in addition to maintaining multiple Scrapbooks, of course, so your options are really entirely up to you. - Speech is implemented under Windows and OSX with a range of 'avatars' to choose from. Great to get the kids interested! - Three 'Tours' for fast orientation, including Organizing Scrapbooks and Building a System. If we can do more, let us know. Almost 2,000 copies have been downloaded in the past year, so something must be worth investigating! And as a Rev user you get a very special offer until 15 June as well. Welcome to version 5... Enjoy! /H FLCo "If you like the Scripter's Scrapbook, tell others; if you don't, please tell us!" From dsc at swcp.com Wed Jun 1 09:00:56 2005 From: dsc at swcp.com (Dar Scott) Date: Wed, 1 Jun 2005 07:00:56 -0600 Subject: Broadband Optimizer for Revolution? In-Reply-To: <429D88A8.8050303@tweedly.net> References: <199.3fff045a.2fc8917f@aol.com> <429CA1B8.6070600@tweedly.net> <17188950874.20050531114351@ahsoftware.net> <32908c1be700feac4258c0394b3e9054@swcp.com> <429CF14B.4030602@tweedly.net> <6be1e18cc944f4ce283bce115fff9105@swcp.com> <429D88A8.8050303@tweedly.net> Message-ID: <8b6788deeaa06f2b946ad8852fed328b@swcp.com> On Jun 1, 2005, at 4:06 AM, Alex Tweedly wrote: > "transmit window" came into common usage sometime around the early 90s > - to refer to the sender's view of the congestion window. An > application trying to figure out if it is near to congestion (and > perhaps vary the info it is sending accordingly) should probably use > this rather than the size of the congestion window (though of course, > since it's TCP not everyone agree on that). We may be using "congestion window" differently. It seems you are talking about the TCP window. I was referring to a self-limitation by the sender. > slow start (and congestion avoidance - independent ideas but a merged > implementation) was first described and implemented by Van in 1988, > and then in rfc 1122 (Host requirements) congestion avoidance became > a required feature for TCP implementations. It became a formal part of > the rfc system in rfc2001 - but that was long after it had become > common. I am aware of Van Jacobson's work, but both rfc 1122 and rfc 2001 are blind spots. > slow start undoubtedly is part of TCP proper; Huh? It is not in rfc 793. > the use of the term "transmit window" is not defined by any rfc (afaik > - didn't search to check), but is ubiquitous in the IETF community. I > think the term transmit window is worthwhile since it expresses the > fact that the congestion window being used is that seen by the sender, > whereas the congestion window can be manipulated by both sender and > receiver. I've been using "congestion window" in the Van Jacobson sense, not for the TCP window. >> The "send window" is really just the senders view of the standard TCP >> window and should not refer to self-limitations of the sender. > >> Even so, thanks for this info. >> >> I think you're saying that the "congestion window" used by some >> implementations is limited by both the TCP window (called "receive >> window" by some) and some configuration called the "transmit window". > Not quite - see the terminology in rfc2001 (slightly different from > what 793 had used). > The advertised window is what the receiver advertised. This is the standard TCP window. I see that is what rfc 2001 calls it. > The congestion window is the sender's modification of that - varied > both by sender's configuration and more importantly by congestion that > has occurred. This should not be greater than the standard TCP window. Other than that, that's what I just said. I looked at rfc 2001 and that is consistent with the usage that I'm familiar with for "congestion window"; it is a TCP implementation parameter for the sender, not the TCP window. >> This imposes a minimum on the transmit buffer size, and it seems you >> are saying that the practice is also to make this the maximum on the >> transmit buffer. Did I get that right? >> > No, I don't think it imposes a minimum on the transmit size; why would > it ? All bytes not acked have to be saved for retransmission. They must remain in the buffer. The transmit buffer must be large enough to hold everything. Now to use this same size as a maximum as you suggested is an undue constraint on the client to me. That might force the application to buffer. I have implemented TCP on a LAN for control systems before and without slow start, but in that case slow start should be avoided for performance reasons. I noticed that rfc 2001 did mention that is OK for a LAN, so I accidently complied with that. Remember, rfc 1122 and rfc 2001 are not TCP/IP. Those are just implementation constraints and are more recent. They do not apply to cases when messages from A to B must get there as fast as possible and must maintain a realtime schedule. Thanks for the pointers to rfc 1122 and rfc 2001. Dar -- ********************************************** DSC (Dar Scott Consulting & Dar's Lab) http://www.swcp.com/dsc/ Programming and software ********************************************** From ljk144 at gmail.com Wed Jun 1 09:06:06 2005 From: ljk144 at gmail.com (Levi Kendall) Date: Wed, 1 Jun 2005 09:06:06 -0400 Subject: Yet Another Clock In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: I also wanted something similar to this, so I allowed all the balls to assume their positions at any point in between the points that were previously being used. This is probably the least efficient of any of the scripts that have been posted but is also probably the "smoothest" in terms of the display. It also uses tick 5 so there are several updates every second rather than the 1 update per second method. I was also thinking there could be a better way to initialize the constants since it will be unhappy if applied while it's executing, but I have not come up with a good alternative yet. local sCenterX, sCenterY -- used to store the center point of the clock circle local sRad -- radius of the clock circle local sAdjust -- used to subtract 90 degrees (in radians) for proper clock display local sFullCircle -- radians in a complete circle on preOpenStack set loc of this stack to the screenLoc -- place window in center of screen put the left of img "ringbase" + (the width of img "ringbase") / 2.0 into sCenterX put the top of img "ringbase" + (the height of img "ringbase") / 2.0 into sCenterY put (0.5 * pi) into sAdjust -- constant to realign angles for a clock face put 100 into sRad -- radius of the clock circle put 2.0 * pi into sFullCircle -- radians in a complete circle setTime end preOpenStack on setTime put word 1 of the long time into T split T using ":" put ((T[3] + (the milliseconds mod 1000.0) / 1000.0) / 60.0) into tSecPercent put (T[2] / 60.0) + (tSecPercent / 60.0) into tMinPercent put (T[1] / 12.0) + (tMinPercent / 12.0) into tHourPercent put tHourPercent * sFullCircle - sAdjust into tHourTrig put tMinPercent * sFullCircle - sAdjust into tMinTrig put tSecPercent * sFullCircle - sAdjust into tSecTrig set loc of img "Hball" to sCenterX + sRad * cos(tHourTrig), sCenterY + sRad * sin(tHourTrig) set loc of img "Mball" to sCenterX + sRad * cos(tMinTrig), sCenterY + sRad * sin(tMinTrig) set loc of img "Sball" to sCenterX + sRad * cos(tSecTrig), sCenterY + sRad * sin(tSecTrig) send "setTime" to me in 5 tick end setTime From gregory.lypny at videotron.ca Wed Jun 1 09:11:13 2005 From: gregory.lypny at videotron.ca (Gregory Lypny) Date: Wed, 01 Jun 2005 09:11:13 -0400 Subject: Problems Importing an Image [was Re: Problems Cutting and Pasting Objects] Message-ID: Hello everyone, I'm revisiting the problem related to the one described below. I'm trying to import a JPEG of Mac OS X's striped background to use as a background for a stack. I need to import it into a group (background), so that it will appear on every card created, but the menu item File/Import As Control... only works at the stack level. If I'm editing a group, File/Import As Control... does nothing. And, as described below for buttons and fields, if I import the image into the stack level, I cannot cut and paste it into the group using keystrokes or Paste Objects under the Edit menu! I used to be able to do this. My work-around is to simply import the image to the stack level and make it a one-object background. Kind of a big hassle for something that should take a second. Greg --- My original post I'm having problems cutting and pasting fields and buttons between the stack level and a background in Mac OS X. If I cut a button using the Cut command under the Edit menu, and then edit a group, nothing happens when I try to Paste. Is this a bug? From dsc at swcp.com Wed Jun 1 09:15:19 2005 From: dsc at swcp.com (Dar Scott) Date: Wed, 1 Jun 2005 07:15:19 -0600 Subject: Broadband Optimizer for Revolution? In-Reply-To: <429D88A8.8050303@tweedly.net> References: <199.3fff045a.2fc8917f@aol.com> <429CA1B8.6070600@tweedly.net> <17188950874.20050531114351@ahsoftware.net> <32908c1be700feac4258c0394b3e9054@swcp.com> <429CF14B.4030602@tweedly.net> <6be1e18cc944f4ce283bce115fff9105@swcp.com> <429D88A8.8050303@tweedly.net> Message-ID: <4f975cc39fefeb4aafbbf3d5fd249c4b@swcp.com> Since I'm contributing to clutter on this list, I should say that I've realized that "transmit window" is a parameter in sender TCP flow control used in some implementations and is implied in implementation standards. Dar From ralf at dol.net Wed Jun 1 09:05:21 2005 From: ralf at dol.net (Ralph R. Forehand) Date: Wed, 1 Jun 2005 09:05:21 -0400 Subject: Problem with Dialog Boxes?? SOLVED!! In-Reply-To: References: <1AC3AEBA-C723-4DC8-817F-5EE1704AA400@sosmartsoftware.com> <7369C972-4679-4CEB-B469-63F99A15CF0D@sosmartsoftware.com> <9B8D1DB8-8A2D-4D02-AACF-80BE036D1004@sosmartsoftware.com> Message-ID: Eric, Thanks for your encouragement. I have already set up a "Dialog Box Study" folder to gather my info, experiments, examples, and experiences for a potential tutorial. We'll see how it goes. Thanks Again for all you help and TAKE CARE, Ralph -------------------------------- >Hi Ralph, > >Always happy to help :-) >If this experience could give you the idea to write a tutorial about how to manage modal dialogs, it shoul be great and valuable for all! > >Le 31 mai 05 ? 21:30, Ralph R. Forehand a ?crit : > >>Eric, >> >>GREAT!!! Again you hit the nail on the head with exactly the info I was seeking. The contextual menu approach opens the whole Dialog Box handling technique for me. THANK YOU!! :-)) >> >>I spent a lot of hours on my Dialog Box problem before I came to this mail-list. I just wish I'd found you sooner. :-( >> >>I think the important area of dialog box use (from the newbes viewpoint) needs a good on-line tutorial. Since no one on this mail- list offered an existing tutorial, I may even write one as I gain more experience. > > >Best regards from Paris, > >Eric Chatonet. >---------------------------------------------------------------- From b.xavier at internet.lu Wed Jun 1 09:42:34 2005 From: b.xavier at internet.lu (MisterX) Date: Wed, 1 Jun 2005 15:42:34 +0200 Subject: Broadband Optimizer for Revolution? In-Reply-To: <4f975cc39fefeb4aafbbf3d5fd249c4b@swcp.com> Message-ID: <20050601125939.C3394930132@mail.runrev.com> actually, there's lots more than just that... TTLs (time to life), frame sizes, packet fragmentation, packet resends, routing, firewall configs (yes!), proxys (cache problems?), etc... Knowledge of IP protocols can be a nightmare. But usually these are not set wrong on your computer unless you tried to optimized them yourself without real knowledge of consequences... If it works, for anything else, dont try to fix it... Look elsewhere. So far rev does a good job with almost anything network related as far as I've experienced. cheers Xavier > -----Original Message----- > From: use-revolution-bounces at lists.runrev.com > [mailto:use-revolution-bounces at lists.runrev.com] On Behalf Of > Dar Scott > Sent: Wednesday, June 01, 2005 15:15 > To: How to use Revolution > Subject: Re: Broadband Optimizer for Revolution? > > Since I'm contributing to clutter on this list, I should say > that I've realized that "transmit window" is a parameter in > sender TCP flow control used in some implementations and is > implied in implementation standards. > > Dar > > _______________________________________________ > use-revolution mailing list > use-revolution at lists.runrev.com > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution > From scott at tactilemedia.com Wed Jun 1 09:52:13 2005 From: scott at tactilemedia.com (Scott Rossi) Date: Wed, 01 Jun 2005 06:52:13 -0700 Subject: Yet Another Clock In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Recently, Levi Kendall wrote: > I also wanted something similar to this, so I allowed all the balls to > assume their positions at any point in between the points that were > previously being used. This is probably the least efficient of any of > the scripts that have been posted but is also probably the "smoothest" > in terms of the display. It also uses tick 5 so there are several > updates every second rather than the 1 update per second method. > > I was also thinking there could be a better way to initialize the > constants since it will be unhappy if applied while it's executing, > but I have not come up with a good alternative yet. Hi Levi: Nice math-based version you've written there. Here's a modified version of your script that will auto-reinitialize itself as needed (there's no penalty for repeatedly placing values into variables, but reading physical properties of non-changing objects, ie location, is better done one time). on preOpenStack set loc of this stack to the screenLoc -- place window in center of screen setTime end preOpenStack local sCenterX, sCenterY -- used to store the center point of the clock circle on setTime if sCenterX = "" or sCenterY = "" then put item 1 of loc of img "ringbase" into sCenterX put item 2 of loc of img "ringbase" into sCenterY end if put (0.5 * pi) into sAdjust -- constant to realign angles for a clock face put 100 into sRad -- radius of the clock circle put 2.0 * pi into sFullCircle -- radians in a complete circle put word 1 of the long time into T split T using ":" put ((T[3] + (the milliseconds mod 1000.0) / 1000.0) / 60.0) into tSecPercent put (T[2] / 60.0) + (tSecPercent / 60.0) into tMinPercent put (T[1] / 12.0) + (tMinPercent / 12.0) into tHourPercent put tHourPercent * sFullCircle - sAdjust into tHourTrig put tMinPercent * sFullCircle - sAdjust into tMinTrig put tSecPercent * sFullCircle - sAdjust into tSecTrig set loc of img "Hball" to item 1 of sCenterX + sRad * cos(tHourTrig), sCenterY + sRad * sin(tHourTrig) set loc of img "Mball" to sCenterX + sRad * cos(tMinTrig), sCenterY + sRad * sin(tMinTrig) set loc of img "Sball" to sCenterX + sRad * cos(tSecTrig), sCenterY + sRad * sin(tSecTrig) send "setTime" to me in 5 tick end setTime Regards, Scott Rossi Creative Director Tactile Media, Multimedia & Design ----- E: scott at tactilemedia.com W: http://www.tactilemedia.com From geoff at runrev.com Wed Jun 1 10:28:41 2005 From: geoff at runrev.com (Geoff Canyon) Date: Wed, 1 Jun 2005 07:28:41 -0700 Subject: Yet Another Clock In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <984077B1-A06B-4F63-86AA-172FD0A7A761@runrev.com> On Jun 1, 2005, at 1:40 AM, Scott Rossi wrote: > Well, with the stack I originally posted, CPU usage runs between 1 > and 2 > percent here. But the move you added is so nice it easily warrants > the > extra usage. Nice Geoff. :-) > > Movado, eat your heart out. > Boy was I tired last night -- given the typos in my email, I'm surprised you even bothered to look at the code ;-) In any case, glad to help. I tried several variations on the move command, making the balls take slightly longer to move, etc. It looks like the move command is very CPU-hungry. If anyone depends on it, they should consider filing a bug report. gc From ridge11103 at btinternet.com Wed Jun 1 10:33:21 2005 From: ridge11103 at btinternet.com (John Ridge) Date: Wed, 01 Jun 2005 15:33:21 +0100 Subject: Very simple tab button script In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Thanks to all contributors for this very helpful tutorial - I've learnt a lot by working through the ideas, and playing with the different types of menu button. Could I suggest, Tom, that it might be an idea to add an opencard handler that simply sets the menuHistory of the tab menu to (the number of this card)? Then if the user naughtily uses some other method of going from card to card, the tabs will still be correctly highlighted to reflect his current location in the stack. -- From: Robert Brenstein Reply-To: How to use Revolution Date: Tue, 31 May 2005 14:38:06 +0200 To: tominjapan at excite.com, How to use Revolution Subject: Re: Very simple tab button script >Well the beauty of it is that you don't have to name each card for the tab. >1. make a tab button for your stack >2. put in the background (so it appears on every card) >3. put a line in the buttons contents for each card--you don't need >to name the card to match the tab! > >ex. (these are the lines in the buttons contents) >Welcome -> line 1, so selecting this will go to cd 1 >How to use >History >Preferences -> line 4, so will go to cd 4 > >Then you just have to make sure that your cards are in order. > >The (only?) advantage of this code over something like: >on menuPick tWhich > go to card tWhich >end menuPick Personally, I prefer to keep the order of tabs independent from the order of cards, and syncing the tab label and card names is not that much work. Actually, keeping the card order when you get beyong a few cards (I have 14 tabs in one project right now) is becoming more of a burden than syncing names. I just have an extra line in my handler so I am reminded if I haven't added a given card yet. on menuPick tWhich if there is not a cd tWhich then beep go cd tWhich end menuPick If you insist on using card number so you don't bother with card names, you can still disassociate the orders if you use custom properties of the tab button to control which card corresponds to which tab. on menuPick tWhich go cd (the tWhich of me) end menuPick or to play safer create a customProperty set on menuPick tWhich go cd (the myDestCard[tWhich] of me) end menuPick Robert From Vjstbenz at aol.com Wed Jun 1 10:47:49 2005 From: Vjstbenz at aol.com (Vjstbenz at aol.com) Date: Wed, 01 Jun 2005 10:47:49 -0400 Subject: Yet Another Clock Message-ID: <22244126.7C3DBE4F.00869E32@aol.com> cpu usage? are you actually saying.....that your simple clock face program....when you first started out.....was taking 70% of a windowsPC's cpu's power?..... as it merrilly ticked along? thank Ben From Vjstbenz at aol.com Wed Jun 1 10:53:09 2005 From: Vjstbenz at aol.com (Vjstbenz at aol.com) Date: Wed, 01 Jun 2005 10:53:09 -0400 Subject: Yet Another Clock Message-ID: <76344546.38443FEF.00869E32@aol.com> you know something... it is very interesting comments you make there....coils, springs, needles..bits and bobs.... how long...... and how much resources.... does it actually take the world's clockmakers...to make a real clock?... .....labour,parts,time,design,marketing,testing,standards, then you look at how your pc and a rev stack script...achieve a clock it's just a thought Ben Ben From Vjstbenz at aol.com Wed Jun 1 11:01:40 2005 From: Vjstbenz at aol.com (Vjstbenz at aol.com) Date: Wed, 01 Jun 2005 11:01:40 -0400 Subject: windows(software) on your MAC Message-ID: <73A43F10.3E1EA3BA.00869E32@aol.com> Hi, http://www.iemulator.com/ this is good one...it allows you to put windows operating system.... onto your MAC......and use any normal windows software...(not just 'Msoft only' software) $23.95 Ben From pevensen at siboneylg.com Wed Jun 1 11:03:29 2005 From: pevensen at siboneylg.com (Peter T. Evensen) Date: Wed, 01 Jun 2005 10:03:29 -0500 Subject: Argh. Any have the stack window disappear in development? Message-ID: <6.2.1.2.2.20050601100208.0764ff00@exchange.slg.com> I am running into this quite frequently. I have a stack window that when I try to drag a field onto it, the stack window disappears. It isn't invisible, I have to close the stack file and open it again to get it back. This is on Windows XP. It is very annoying. Peter T. Evensen http://www.PetersRoadToHealth.com 24-hour recorded info hotline: 1-800-624-7671 From bnz2 at cdc.gov Wed Jun 1 11:05:19 2005 From: bnz2 at cdc.gov (Lynch, Jonathan) Date: Wed, 1 Jun 2005 11:05:19 -0400 Subject: Argh. Any have the stack window disappear in development? Message-ID: <64878EF567131D4596246171F75FD4A946A257@m-epo-1.epo.cdc.gov> I have had a stack dissappear on me before, even though it was not invisible. I had to create a new stack, and copy the cards from the original stack to the new stack. This cleared up the problem, but I cannot tell you what the actual problem was. -----Original Message----- From: use-revolution-bounces at lists.runrev.com [mailto:use-revolution-bounces at lists.runrev.com] On Behalf Of Peter T. Evensen Sent: Wednesday, June 01, 2005 11:03 AM To: use-revolution-lists.runrev.com Subject: Argh. Any have the stack window disappear in development? I am running into this quite frequently. I have a stack window that when I try to drag a field onto it, the stack window disappears. It isn't invisible, I have to close the stack file and open it again to get it back. This is on Windows XP. It is very annoying. Peter T. Evensen http://www.PetersRoadToHealth.com 24-hour recorded info hotline: 1-800-624-7671 _______________________________________________ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution at lists.runrev.com http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution From mparent at readnaturally.com Wed Jun 1 11:21:58 2005 From: mparent at readnaturally.com (Michael Parent) Date: Wed, 1 Jun 2005 10:21:58 -0500 Subject: Argh. Any have the stack window disappear in development? In-Reply-To: <6.2.1.2.2.20050601100208.0764ff00@exchange.slg.com> Message-ID: <1D6B534B0B0BB04999ED232B8DA8A52C042BFD@READNATSERVER.readnaturally.local> I have had this occur several times also, one time even closing and reopening the stack would not unhide it, had to go to application browser and clicking on the stack there made it visible. I could never determine what the problem was. Occurred On Windows XP SP2. I am speculating that Windows is minimizing the stack and then not showing it in the taskbar, just a guess though. Michael Parent -----Original Message----- From: use-revolution-bounces at lists.runrev.com [mailto:use-revolution-bounces at lists.runrev.com] On Behalf Of Peter T. Evensen Sent: Wednesday, June 01, 2005 10:03 AM To: use-revolution-lists.runrev.com Subject: Argh. Any have the stack window disappear in development? I am running into this quite frequently. I have a stack window that when I try to drag a field onto it, the stack window disappears. It isn't invisible, I have to close the stack file and open it again to get it back. This is on Windows XP. It is very annoying. Peter T. Evensen http://www.PetersRoadToHealth.com 24-hour recorded info hotline: 1-800-624-7671 _______________________________________________ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution at lists.runrev.com http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution From alex at tweedly.net Wed Jun 1 11:23:22 2005 From: alex at tweedly.net (Alex Tweedly) Date: Wed, 01 Jun 2005 16:23:22 +0100 Subject: Broadband Optimizer for Revolution? In-Reply-To: <8b6788deeaa06f2b946ad8852fed328b@swcp.com> References: <199.3fff045a.2fc8917f@aol.com> <429CA1B8.6070600@tweedly.net> <17188950874.20050531114351@ahsoftware.net> <32908c1be700feac4258c0394b3e9054@swcp.com> <429CF14B.4030602@tweedly.net> <6be1e18cc944f4ce283bce115fff9105@swcp.com> <429D88A8.8050303@tweedly.net> <8b6788deeaa06f2b946ad8852fed328b@swcp.com> Message-ID: <429DD2EA.4060803@tweedly.net> Dar Scott wrote: > slow start undoubtedly is part of TCP proper; > > Huh? It is not in rfc 793. > That means that it was not part of the original TCP standard. I guess it's the usage of that word "proper" :-) 1122 is an IETF standard, and so anything it says is a requirement for host TCP implementations is definitely included in "proper" - this includes the slow start algorithm (see below) 2100 and later 2581 were proposed standards - they were never ratified to full standard, but are very widely implemented. >>> This imposes a minimum on the transmit buffer size, and it seems you >>> are saying that the practice is also to make this the maximum on the >>> transmit buffer. Did I get that right? >>> >> No, I don't think it imposes a minimum on the transmit size; why >> would it ? > > > All bytes not acked have to be saved for retransmission. They must > remain in the buffer. The transmit buffer must be large enough to > hold everything. > > Now to use this same size as a maximum as you suggested is an undue > constraint on the client to me. That might force the application to > buffer. If I said something that implied that the transmit buffer size had to be the same as the window, then it was just a failure to express myself clearly - sorry. A sender's transmit buffer can be as small as he wishes (actually, I think there may be a requirement that it be at least one MSS - it would certainly be odd for it to be smaller than that). > > I have implemented TCP on a LAN for control systems before and without > slow start, but in that case slow start should be avoided for > performance reasons. I noticed that rfc 2001 did mention that is OK > for a LAN, so I accidently complied with that. > > Remember, rfc 1122 and rfc 2001 are not TCP/IP. Those are just > implementation constraints and are more recent. > > They do not apply to cases when messages from A to B must get there as > fast as possible and must maintain a realtime schedule. rfc1122 is a full IETF standard, and so the requirements it places on host implementations of TCP are part or the official definition of TCP (even though they weren't in the *original* TCP standard). Note in particular this section 4.2.2.15 Retransmission Timeout: RFC-793 Section 3.7, page 41 The algorithm suggested in RFC-793 for calculating the retransmission timeout is now known to be inadequate; see Section 4.2.3.1 below. Recent work by Jacobson [TCP:7] on Internet congestion and TCP retransmission stability has produced a transmission algorithm combining "slow start" with "congestion avoidance". A TCP MUST implement this algorithm. (note there was an exception made in the rfc index - 1122 (Host requirements) and 1812 (Router requirements) modified so many earlier RFCs that it was decided to omit the usual requirement that all RFCs modified by them be marked as such in the index). rfc2001 isn't part of the official spec of TCP, since it never made it past proposed standard. > Thanks for the pointers to rfc 1122 and rfc 2001. If you ever get involved in (off-LAN) high performance TCP, you might find 3390 interesting as well. Also not a standard, but has lots of good analysis and experience behind it. -- Alex Tweedly http://www.tweedly.net -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.322 / Virus Database: 267.3.0 - Release Date: 30/05/2005 From alex at tweedly.net Wed Jun 1 11:28:40 2005 From: alex at tweedly.net (Alex Tweedly) Date: Wed, 01 Jun 2005 16:28:40 +0100 Subject: Broadband Optimizer for Revolution? In-Reply-To: <20050601125939.C3394930132@mail.runrev.com> References: <20050601125939.C3394930132@mail.runrev.com> Message-ID: <429DD428.70307@tweedly.net> MisterX wrote: >actually, there's lots more than just that... > >TTLs (time to life), frame sizes, packet fragmentation, packet resends, >routing, firewall configs (yes!), proxys (cache problems?), etc... > > > Hey - you missed packet schedulers (Packeteer, etc.), VPN frame overhead, ATM cell tax, VJHC, RED, etc.:-) > Knowledge of IP protocols can be a nightmare. But usually these are not set >wrong on your computer unless you tried to optimized them yourself without >real knowledge of consequences... > > One of the few exceptions to that is the setting of receive buffer (window) size, which is often set too small to achieve the potential throughput for broadband connections. >If it works, for anything else, dont try to fix it... Look elsewhere. So far >rev does a good job with almost anything network related as far as I've >experienced. > > -- Alex Tweedly http://www.tweedly.net -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.322 / Virus Database: 267.3.0 - Release Date: 30/05/2005 From mwieder at ahsoftware.net Wed Jun 1 12:52:01 2005 From: mwieder at ahsoftware.net (Mark Wieder) Date: Wed, 1 Jun 2005 09:52:01 -0700 Subject: Filter In-Reply-To: <429D935A.9010303@ehug.info> References: <42734F20.2050207@ehug.info> <427359EB.3090603@tweedly.net> <18431053232.20050430165400@ahsoftware.net> <429D935A.9010303@ehug.info> Message-ID: <962997470.20050601095201@ahsoftware.net> Mark- Wednesday, June 1, 2005, 3:52:10 AM, you wrote: MS> Thanks for replying. Are you saying that really only the regex MS> rules as described in the little regex syntax window of the docs MS> in Revolution are valid in Transcript? The docs clearly say to Yes. MS> have a look at some Perl website for further info on regex. MS> Perhaps this reference should be removed from the docs, for now. The PCRE website gives a good introduction to regular expressions and is *the* authoritative site for regex syntax and documentation. It gives good background for those who are just starting to explore regular expressions, has tutorials and examples, and reference documents for every weirdness regex can handle. It's very useful stuff and I end up referring to it just about every time I need to dive into regular expressions. I don't think the usefulness of the website is affected by the fact that Transcript only supports a subset of the regex operators, but maybe the docs should be changed to include a warning that some of the really useful stuff isn't supported. -- -Mark Wieder mwieder at ahsoftware.net From wdesigns at austin.rr.com Wed Jun 1 13:09:19 2005 From: wdesigns at austin.rr.com (Douglas Westbrook) Date: Wed, 1 Jun 2005 12:09:19 -0500 Subject: level 1 stacks lock together? Message-ID: <71D65D2B-A985-49C1-BFD5-FA7AF56F9F30@austin.rr.com> I am having a problem while using drawers and palettes. I am using a main stack to open another main stack. The first stack is a palette and is used to edit the second stack . The first palette stack has the seconds sub stacks that open as drawers in the first. This all seems to work normally, but somewhere in the works all level 1 stacks ?lock together? and move as one window. I don?t know what this is to look it up or how to fix it once this happens. Can anybody clue me in? From bnz2 at cdc.gov Wed Jun 1 13:13:42 2005 From: bnz2 at cdc.gov (Lynch, Jonathan) Date: Wed, 1 Jun 2005 13:13:42 -0400 Subject: level 1 stacks lock together? Message-ID: <64878EF567131D4596246171F75FD4A946A25D@m-epo-1.epo.cdc.gov> For that matter... Does anyone know how to make this happen on purpose? Perfectly locking and synching up different stacks could be useful, and attempts at doing this have been discussed here before. -----Original Message----- From: use-revolution-bounces at lists.runrev.com [mailto:use-revolution-bounces at lists.runrev.com] On Behalf Of Douglas Westbrook Sent: Wednesday, June 01, 2005 1:09 PM To: How to use Revolution Subject: level 1 stacks lock together? I am having a problem while using drawers and palettes. I am using a main stack to open another main stack. The first stack is a palette and is used to edit the second stack . The first palette stack has the seconds sub stacks that open as drawers in the first. This all seems to work normally, but somewhere in the works all level 1 stacks "lock together" and move as one window. I don't know what this is to look it up or how to fix it once this happens. Can anybody clue me in?_______________________________________________ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution at lists.runrev.com http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution From stephenREVOLUTION at barncard.com Wed Jun 1 13:26:28 2005 From: stephenREVOLUTION at barncard.com (Stephen Barncard) Date: Wed, 1 Jun 2005 10:26:28 -0700 Subject: [ANN] The Scripter's Scrapbook version 5 In-Reply-To: <6d.4663794e.2fcf0971@aol.com> References: <6d.4663794e.2fcf0971@aol.com> Message-ID: This software install did a nasty thing. the version of the Scripter's scrapbook I had was offered for FREE, as are most of the programming aids mentioned on the list. This 'upgrade' is actually a 'Trial VERSION', and I unknowingly overwrote the version 4 with this install. This was never made clear in the installation until after I had already destroyed version 4. This doesn't seem fair somehow. Isn't is customary to let people know this clearly? How can I get a version 4 install back if I don't want to buy this? I've got a lot of scripts in there. sqb At 8:52 AM -0400 6/1/05, FlexibleLearning at aol.com wrote: >1st JUNE 2005 >The Flexible Learning Company > (http://www.FlexibleLearning.com) >Announcing the Scripter's Scrapbook v5 >"the personal reference library for all programmers" > > >The Flexible Learning Company is delighted to announce the arrival of the >Scripter's Scrapbook version 5, the personal reference library for all From alex at tweedly.net Wed Jun 1 13:32:31 2005 From: alex at tweedly.net (Alex Tweedly) Date: Wed, 01 Jun 2005 18:32:31 +0100 Subject: audioClip Message-ID: <429DF12F.90506@tweedly.net> Sorry, this feels like a really dumb question, but I've already wasted my required two hours searching through the docs ..... How do I create an audio clip within a stack ? I have a wav file - but I want to include it as a clip within the stack. I can find all kinds of ways to change it, to play it, to change the defaults used when I create a new audioclip - but I'll be darned if I can find out how to actually create one. I know it's not "create" - that's only for items that go on a card. I can't use copy or clone - I don't have one yet to do that with :-) So if someone could give me a pointer to the bit of the docs that I can't find, I'd be very grateful. Thanks -- Alex. -- Alex Tweedly http://www.tweedly.net -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.322 / Virus Database: 267.3.0 - Release Date: 30/05/2005 From bvg at mac.com Wed Jun 1 13:40:41 2005 From: bvg at mac.com (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Bj=F6rnke_von_Gierke?=) Date: Wed, 1 Jun 2005 19:40:41 +0200 Subject: audioClip In-Reply-To: <429DF12F.90506@tweedly.net> References: <429DF12F.90506@tweedly.net> Message-ID: On Jun 01 2005, at 19:32, Alex Tweedly wrote: > How do I create an audio clip within a stack ? Try "import" -- official ChatRev page: http://chatrev.cjb.net Chat with other RunRev developers: go stack URL "http://homepage.mac.com/bvg/chatrev1.3.rev" From sims at ezpzapps.com Wed Jun 1 13:40:55 2005 From: sims at ezpzapps.com (sims) Date: Wed, 1 Jun 2005 19:40:55 +0200 Subject: audioClip In-Reply-To: <429DF12F.90506@tweedly.net> References: <429DF12F.90506@tweedly.net> Message-ID: >Sorry, this feels like a really dumb question, but I've already >wasted my required two hours searching through the docs ..... > >How do I create an audio clip within a stack ? > >I have a wav file - but I want to include it as a clip within the >stack. I can find all kinds of ways to change it, to play it, to >change the defaults used when I create a new audioclip - but I'll be >darned if I can find out how to actually create one. > >I know it's not "create" - that's only for items that go on a card. >I can't use copy or clone - I don't have one yet to do that with :-) Ummm...do you mean 'File menu' > 'Import as control' > 'audio file' ?? ciao, sims From dsc at swcp.com Wed Jun 1 13:41:57 2005 From: dsc at swcp.com (Dar Scott) Date: Wed, 1 Jun 2005 11:41:57 -0600 Subject: Broadband Optimizer for Revolution? In-Reply-To: <429DD2EA.4060803@tweedly.net> References: <199.3fff045a.2fc8917f@aol.com> <429CA1B8.6070600@tweedly.net> <17188950874.20050531114351@ahsoftware.net> <32908c1be700feac4258c0394b3e9054@swcp.com> <429CF14B.4030602@tweedly.net> <6be1e18cc944f4ce283bce115fff9105@swcp.com> <429D88A8.8050303@tweedly.net> <8b6788deeaa06f2b946ad8852fed328b@swcp.com> <429DD2EA.4060803@tweedly.net> Message-ID: <66a382ce061f2afbdc2f2aca0a15b8f6@swcp.com> On Jun 1, 2005, at 9:23 AM, Alex Tweedly wrote: > rfc1122 is a full IETF standard, and so the requirements it places on > host implementations of TCP are part or the official definition of TCP ... > A TCP MUST implement this algorithm. That is an interesting interpretation. I read that last sentence from RFC 1122 as meaning "A TCP must implement this algorithm to comply with RFC 1122." A TCP is TCP if it complies with RFC 793. It seems you are saying that compliance with one IETF standard requires compliance with all. To me that contradicts the notion of all RFCs being valid standards but some (for compliance) over-shadow others. One RFC cannot change another. Any implementation that complies with an RFC will always comply with it. Even so, I need to get out of the dark ages. I was aware of Van Jacobson, Korn & Partridge, and Nagle, but was blind to thinking of these as standards. (I had been interested in SCTP, and still am somewhat, but this has slow start built-in. Just as PCI leaped to PCI Express to properly handle congestion, I would have hoped SCTP would do the same for IP but it uses the some methods as many TCP implementations. Can you imagine communicating with the Mars Rover with slow start TCP?) Dar -- ********************************************** DSC (Dar Scott Consulting & Dar's Lab) http://www.swcp.com/dsc/ A pig's gotta fly. -- Porco Rosso ********************************************** From sims at ezpzapps.com Wed Jun 1 13:42:19 2005 From: sims at ezpzapps.com (sims) Date: Wed, 1 Jun 2005 19:42:19 +0200 Subject: audioClip In-Reply-To: <429DF12F.90506@tweedly.net> References: <429DF12F.90506@tweedly.net> Message-ID: >Sorry, this feels like a really dumb question, but I've already >wasted my required two hours searching through the docs ..... > >How do I create an audio clip within a stack ? Or....look up 'import' import audioClip from file "/sounds/temp/bugsounds.wav" ciao, sims From stephenREVOLUTION at barncard.com Wed Jun 1 13:45:22 2005 From: stephenREVOLUTION at barncard.com (Stephen Barncard) Date: Wed, 1 Jun 2005 10:45:22 -0700 Subject: audioClip In-Reply-To: References: <429DF12F.90506@tweedly.net> Message-ID: I think this request is for real-time recording from an input, not importing. I'd like to know myself, would this require Trevor's Quicktime external? At 7:40 PM +0200 6/1/05, sims wrote: >>Sorry, this feels like a really dumb question, but I've already >>wasted my required two hours searching through the docs ..... >> >>How do I create an audio clip within a stack ? >> >>I have a wav file - but I want to include it as a clip within the >>stack. I can find all kinds of ways to change it, to play it, to >>change the defaults used when I create a new audioclip - but I'll >>be darned if I can find out how to actually create one. >> >>I know it's not "create" - that's only for items that go on a card. >>I can't use copy or clone - I don't have one yet to do that with :-) > > >Ummm...do you mean 'File menu' > 'Import as control' > 'audio file' ?? > > >ciao, >sims From sims at ezpzapps.com Wed Jun 1 13:49:09 2005 From: sims at ezpzapps.com (sims) Date: Wed, 1 Jun 2005 19:49:09 +0200 Subject: audioClip In-Reply-To: References: <429DF12F.90506@tweedly.net> Message-ID: >I think this request is for real-time recording from an input, not >importing. I'd like to know myself, would this require Trevor's >Quicktime external? Look up: 'record sound' ciao, sims From Katiepaxtonf at aol.com Wed Jun 1 13:51:10 2005 From: Katiepaxtonf at aol.com (Katiepaxtonf at aol.com) Date: Wed, 1 Jun 2005 13:51:10 EDT Subject: audioClip Message-ID: <147.4684a2e5.2fcf4f8e@aol.com> thank you might i say very anoing katiepaxtonf at aol.com From devin_asay at byu.edu Wed Jun 1 14:15:01 2005 From: devin_asay at byu.edu (Devin Asay) Date: Wed, 01 Jun 2005 12:15:01 -0600 Subject: audioClip In-Reply-To: <429DF12F.90506@tweedly.net> References: <429DF12F.90506@tweedly.net> Message-ID: On Jun 1, 2005, at 11:32 AM, Alex Tweedly wrote: > Sorry, this feels like a really dumb question, but I've already wasted > my required two hours searching through the docs ..... > > How do I create an audio clip within a stack ? > > I have a wav file - but I want to include it as a clip within the > stack. I can find all kinds of ways to change it, to play it, to > change the defaults used when I create a new audioclip - but I'll be > darned if I can find out how to actually create one. > > I know it's not "create" - that's only for items that go on a card. > I can't use copy or clone - I don't have one yet to do that with :-) > > So if someone could give me a pointer to the bit of the docs that I > can't find, I'd be very grateful. Alex, I think you're asking how to record an audio clip directly into the stack. You can't currently do that with the record sound command-- that only lets you record to an external file. However, you could do it in a few steps: record sound command to record to an external file import command to import the file as an audio clip delete file command to delete the (now) unwanted external file. Kind of kludgy, but should work. Devin Devin Asay Humanities Technology and Research Support Center Brigham Young University From alex at tweedly.net Wed Jun 1 14:24:59 2005 From: alex at tweedly.net (Alex Tweedly) Date: Wed, 01 Jun 2005 19:24:59 +0100 Subject: Broadband Optimizer for Revolution? In-Reply-To: <66a382ce061f2afbdc2f2aca0a15b8f6@swcp.com> References: <199.3fff045a.2fc8917f@aol.com> <429CA1B8.6070600@tweedly.net> <17188950874.20050531114351@ahsoftware.net> <32908c1be700feac4258c0394b3e9054@swcp.com> <429CF14B.4030602@tweedly.net> <6be1e18cc944f4ce283bce115fff9105@swcp.com> <429D88A8.8050303@tweedly.net> <8b6788deeaa06f2b946ad8852fed328b@swcp.com> <429DD2EA.4060803@tweedly.net> <66a382ce061f2afbdc2f2aca0a15b8f6@swcp.com> Message-ID: <429DFD7B.5060401@tweedly.net> Dar Scott wrote: > > On Jun 1, 2005, at 9:23 AM, Alex Tweedly wrote: > >> rfc1122 is a full IETF standard, and so the requirements it places on >> host implementations of TCP are part or the official definition of TCP > > ... > >> A TCP MUST implement this algorithm. > > > That is an interesting interpretation. > Well, it is the IETF's interpretation (the chair of the IETF & IESG worked for me for 4 years:-) > I read that last sentence from RFC 1122 as meaning "A TCP must > implement this algorithm to comply with RFC 1122." A TCP is TCP if it > complies with RFC 793. > A TCP is 793-compliant if it complies with 793. It will always be 793 compliant - but the definition of "TCP" can, and did. change over time. > It seems you are saying that compliance with one IETF standard > requires compliance with all. > No - compliance with any standard only requires compliance with it and any others referenced from it. But compliance with "current standards" or with named standards (e.g. UDP, TCP) changes over time. > To me that contradicts the notion of all RFCs being valid standards > but some (for compliance) over-shadow others. One RFC cannot change > another. Any implementation that complies with an RFC will always > comply with it. > One RFC can obsolete another. One RFC can update another. See the intro to http://www.ietf.org/iesg/1rfc_index.txt > Even so, I need to get out of the dark ages. I was aware of Van > Jacobson, Korn & Partridge, and Nagle, but was blind to thinking of > these as standards. > > (I had been interested in SCTP, and still am somewhat, but this has > slow start built-in. Just as PCI leaped to PCI Express to properly > handle congestion, I would have hoped SCTP would do the same for IP > but it uses the some methods as many TCP implementations. Yes, I had many hopes for SCTP (two of the authors worked in my group for a while just after the rfc came out). It had little choice but to use much of the same congestion control as TCP - the IETF is supersensitive to the dangers of congestive collapse, and politically it would not have progressed without taking that line. Large initial window mods would solve these problems if used in controlled circumstances; over the general Internet, I think there is still need for conservative congestion control. (Note you can use RSVP or other QOS reservation/negotiation scheme to ensure that going slightly outside the TCP standard is relatively safe even over multi-hop networks - though you'll struggle to get a RSVP-enabled ISP unless you have a ton of money to spend ...) > Can you imagine communicating with the Mars Rover with slow start TCP?) Not easily :-) But I can imagine using TCP incorporating rfc3390 (or further modifications of that); and if I was building the comms kit for Mars, I'd be quite happy to ignore certain parts of the standards specs, knowing my circumstances were very different from those needed in the general Internet. (though if I were doing inter-planetary comms, I wouldn't use TCP - I'd use parallel unidirectional streams, probably UDP, with FEC and transmit full-blast without congestion or flow control :-) -- Alex Tweedly http://www.tweedly.net -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.322 / Virus Database: 267.3.0 - Release Date: 30/05/2005 From alex at tweedly.net Wed Jun 1 14:27:35 2005 From: alex at tweedly.net (Alex Tweedly) Date: Wed, 01 Jun 2005 19:27:35 +0100 Subject: audioClip In-Reply-To: References: <429DF12F.90506@tweedly.net> Message-ID: <429DFE17.9090509@tweedly.net> Bj?rnke von Gierke wrote: > > On Jun 01 2005, at 19:32, Alex Tweedly wrote: > >> How do I create an audio clip within a stack ? > > > Try "import" > Duh ! Thanks Bjornke and sims .... What would I do without this list to help when I get caffeine-deprived .... :-) -- Alex Tweedly http://www.tweedly.net -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.322 / Virus Database: 267.3.0 - Release Date: 30/05/2005 From alex at tweedly.net Wed Jun 1 14:30:04 2005 From: alex at tweedly.net (Alex Tweedly) Date: Wed, 01 Jun 2005 19:30:04 +0100 Subject: audioClip In-Reply-To: References: <429DF12F.90506@tweedly.net> Message-ID: <429DFEAC.9010908@tweedly.net> Stephen Barncard wrote: > I think this request is for real-time recording from an input, not > importing. I'd like to know myself, would this require Trevor's > Quicktime external? > Stephen - it's very generous of you to assume I was asking a harder question :-) :-) But no - I really did mean the simple question - import is the answer .... -- Alex Tweedly http://www.tweedly.net -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.322 / Virus Database: 267.3.0 - Release Date: 30/05/2005 From revolution at jaedworks.com Wed Jun 1 14:32:38 2005 From: revolution at jaedworks.com (Jeanne A. E. DeVoto) Date: Wed, 1 Jun 2005 11:32:38 -0700 Subject: Filter In-Reply-To: <429D935A.9010303@ehug.info> References: <42734F20.2050207@ehug.info> <427359EB.3090603@tweedly.net> <18431053232.20050430165400@ahsoftware.net> <429D935A.9010303@ehug.info> Message-ID: At 12:52 PM +0200 6/1/2005, Mark Schonewille wrote: >Thanks for replying. Are you saying that really only the regex rules >as described in the little regex syntax window of the docs in >Revolution are valid in Transcript? The docs clearly say to have a >look at some Perl website for further info on regex. Perhaps this >reference should be removed from the docs, for now. Filter doesn't take a regular expression at all. It takes a wildcard expression, which is conceptually similar to regex but not the same. The docs for filter make no reference to the PCRE library documentation. (You may be thinking of matchText and matchChunk, which do take regular expressions and which support the suite documented in the PCRE manual.) -- jeanne a. e. devoto ~ revolution at jaedworks.com http://www.jaedworks.com From Vjstbenz at aol.com Wed Jun 1 14:45:28 2005 From: Vjstbenz at aol.com (Vjstbenz at aol.com) Date: Wed, 01 Jun 2005 14:45:28 -0400 Subject: level 1 stacks lock together? Message-ID: <04B785C2.5CEFA984.00869E32@aol.com> hi, .....this is the principles of REV isn't it...the mainstack, substacks in that main stack...and cards in the sub stacks of that mainstack... i have only got as far as using a single 'TOP level' MAINSTACK and going down from there.... i am not sure how you USE several mainstack in the same 'mainstack'....after all...when you use revolution...the work you do...to make a computer program....is called a mainstack...(at the outset...) ....the mainstack is then compiled (i think) by you...at the end....when you have finished all your work in your mainstack etc....to get a final,standalone computer program...(single file) .....in the options for making a final windows/mac...program....there are settings for controlling the mainstack,substacks and such....and how to 'place' them.....in this final step.... go File, Standalone application settings....(Mac or win...etc) don't know if this helps you good luck Ben From dsc at swcp.com Wed Jun 1 14:49:08 2005 From: dsc at swcp.com (Dar Scott) Date: Wed, 1 Jun 2005 12:49:08 -0600 Subject: Broadband Optimizer for Revolution? In-Reply-To: <429DFD7B.5060401@tweedly.net> References: <199.3fff045a.2fc8917f@aol.com> <429CA1B8.6070600@tweedly.net> <17188950874.20050531114351@ahsoftware.net> <32908c1be700feac4258c0394b3e9054@swcp.com> <429CF14B.4030602@tweedly.net> <6be1e18cc944f4ce283bce115fff9105@swcp.com> <429D88A8.8050303@tweedly.net> <8b6788deeaa06f2b946ad8852fed328b@swcp.com> <429DD2EA.4060803@tweedly.net> <66a382ce061f2afbdc2f2aca0a15b8f6@swcp.com> <429DFD7B.5060401@tweedly.net> Message-ID: On Jun 1, 2005, at 12:24 PM, Alex Tweedly wrote: > But compliance with "current standards" or with named standards (e.g. > UDP, TCP) changes over time. Does this mean that new standards can and do change the meaning of the term TCP? I didn't realize that. I try to be hip but I'm just an old curmudgeon. Words do change. Once in my pirate persona I said something about "booty" and my children were shocked. I'm glad you're on this list and can keep me honest. > (though if I were doing inter-planetary comms, I wouldn't use TCP - > I'd use parallel unidirectional streams, probably UDP, with FEC and > transmit full-blast without congestion or flow control :-) ;-) Well, if not flow control, maybe forward redundancy based on available Joules and modeling of reception. Perhaps a good model for both control and human interaction would be email. Dar From Vjstbenz at aol.com Wed Jun 1 14:52:20 2005 From: Vjstbenz at aol.com (Vjstbenz at aol.com) Date: Wed, 01 Jun 2005 14:52:20 -0400 Subject: [ANN] The Scripter's Scrapbook version 5 Message-ID: <6758F178.02380A02.00869E32@aol.com> hello, if you are having those problems...may i surgest ShadowUser Pro v2.5 for windows... you can get it free...at ...www.phazeddl.com...(10's of thousands of dollars worth of free software (serials for TRIALS etc) also, if you are using a MAC computer....try....i-emulator so that you can put winXP on your MAC and use 90 percent of windows software.... Shadowuser Pro v2.5 won't work on....i-emulator....unfotunatley it is too LOW down in the engine... but there are ways and means of conquering your PC and MAC typical longterm problems.....very quikly...for ever hope this helps Ben From wdesigns at austin.rr.com Wed Jun 1 15:00:55 2005 From: wdesigns at austin.rr.com (Douglas Westbrook) Date: Wed, 1 Jun 2005 14:00:55 -0500 Subject: level 1 stacks lock together? In-Reply-To: <04B785C2.5CEFA984.00869E32@aol.com> References: <04B785C2.5CEFA984.00869E32@aol.com> Message-ID: <5125F825-3DD2-43F8-AB20-474425269461@austin.rr.com> The questions are: What is causing the level 1 stacks to lock together and move as one window? How do I unlock the level 1 stacks ( without having to relaunch revolution or the stand alone)? The anomaly of "locked level 1 windows" happens in both the development environment and in a file opened by the standalone version. Thanks, Doug On Jun 1, 2005, at 1:45 PM, Vjstbenz at aol.com wrote: > hi, > > .....this is the principles of REV isn't it...the mainstack, > substacks in that main stack...and cards in the sub stacks of that > mainstack... > > i have only got as far as using a single 'TOP level' MAINSTACK and > going down from there.... > > i am not sure how you USE several mainstack in the same > 'mainstack'....after all...when you use revolution...the work you > do...to make a computer program....is called a mainstack...(at the > outset...) > > ....the mainstack is then compiled (i think) by you...at the > end....when you have finished all your work in your mainstack > etc....to get a final,standalone computer program...(single file) > > .....in the options for making a final windows/ > mac...program....there are settings for controlling the > mainstack,substacks and such....and how to 'place' them.....in this > final step.... > > go > > File, Standalone application settings....(Mac or win...etc) > > don't know if this helps you > > good luck > > Ben > > > _______________________________________________ > use-revolution mailing list > use-revolution at lists.runrev.com > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution > From jbv.silences at Club-Internet.fr Wed Jun 1 15:14:48 2005 From: jbv.silences at Club-Internet.fr (jbv) Date: Wed, 01 Jun 2005 21:14:48 +0200 Subject: "wait with messages" tutorial ? Message-ID: <429E0923.A8F3EA6A@Club-Internet.fr> Hi list, Is there a (detailed) stack / tutorial about the "wait with messages" command ? especially when associated with a POST, and a script waiting for the server to respond ? Thanks, JB (waiting for messages) From jmac at consensustech.com Wed Jun 1 15:19:43 2005 From: jmac at consensustech.com (Jim MacConnell) Date: Wed, 01 Jun 2005 12:19:43 -0700 Subject: level 1 stacks lock together? In-Reply-To: <5125F825-3DD2-43F8-AB20-474425269461@austin.rr.com> Message-ID: Doug, Sounds weird. Are you manually telling the second stack where to open (e.g. setting its location or rect when you first open it?). My though is that one of the stacks is being positioned relative to the other in an openCard handler or the like that is getting called when you don't expect it thereby moving the stacks "together". Jim > The questions are: > What is causing the level 1 stacks to lock together and move as one > window? > How do I unlock the level 1 stacks ( without having to relaunch > revolution or the stand alone)? > The anomaly of "locked level 1 windows" happens in both the > development environment and in a file opened by the standalone version. > Thanks, > Doug From jbondy at sover.net Wed Jun 1 15:20:17 2005 From: jbondy at sover.net (Jon) Date: Wed, 01 Jun 2005 15:20:17 -0400 Subject: dump newbie image questiosn Message-ID: <429E0A71.2050801@sover.net> Is there any way to specify the magnification ratio of the image (the ratio between the native/intrinsic size and the displayed size)? One might want to alter this ratio in order to "zoom" or "unzoom" an image. Note that I do NOT want a separate "zoom" window or magnifier. I want to take a image and either display it to "fit" in a window, or display it "normally" (1:1). Is there any way to specify the displayed width of an image independent of the actual width of the image (in pixels)? One might want to do this to "fit" an image into a fixed screen space, even if it is larger or smaller (in pixels) than the screen space. I've tried to manipulate real (large) images using the pixels, and have found Revolution to be stunningly slow (perhaps 100 times slower than native code). Am I doing it "wrong", or is Revolution aimed at doing things other than manipulating millions of pixels in tight loops? Thanks! Jon From jbondy at sover.net Wed Jun 1 15:21:24 2005 From: jbondy at sover.net (Jon) Date: Wed, 01 Jun 2005 15:21:24 -0400 Subject: IDE get's "stuck" Message-ID: <429E0AB4.6060604@sover.net> If I enter the following handler with "ccw" or "cw", it works perfectly. When I enter with "flip" or "mirror", the requested operation is performed perfectly, but afterwards the cursor turns into a plus sign, and I have to switch from run mode to design mode and back to run mode before I can run the program again. I'm sure the change in cursor is a clue as to what is going on, but I don't understand it. Any hints? Jon Bondy on menuPick s if s = "ccw" then get angle of image "image" add 90 to it set angle of image "image" to it end if if s = "cw" then subtract 90 from it set angle of image "image" to it end if if s = "flip" then flip image "image" vertical if s = "mirror" then flip image "image" horizontal end menuPick > From stephenREVOLUTION at barncard.com Wed Jun 1 15:20:58 2005 From: stephenREVOLUTION at barncard.com (Stephen Barncard) Date: Wed, 1 Jun 2005 12:20:58 -0700 Subject: audioClip In-Reply-To: References: <429DF12F.90506@tweedly.net> Message-ID: Ok, I overcomplicated things. But I've often wondered if it were possible, and how controllable was it. And what would I need it for? Building an editor program with waveforms, etc would be a big deal, but a simple note-taking recorder would seemingly be a good simple audio project. Most programs that record audio have to record to a buffer file first anyway, so your temporary audio file could go to a temp folder in your system where such files are dumped automatically at shutdown. On Unix and Macs it would be the temp folder. specialFolderPath("temp") returns "/private/tmp/501/TemporaryItems " on my mac. sqb At 12:15 PM -0600 6/1/05, Devin Asay wrote: > >Alex, > >I think you're asking how to record an audio clip directly into the >stack. You can't currently do that with the record sound command-- >that only lets you record to an external file. However, you could do >it in a few steps: > > record sound command to record to an external file > import command to import the file as an audio clip > delete file command to delete the (now) unwanted external file. > >Kind of kludgy, but should work. > >Devin > >Devin Asay >Humanities Technology and Research Support Center >Brigham Young University From bill at bluewatermaritime.com Wed Jun 1 15:24:03 2005 From: bill at bluewatermaritime.com (Bill) Date: Wed, 01 Jun 2005 15:24:03 -0400 Subject: [ANN] The Scripter's Scrapbook version 5 In-Reply-To: <6758F178.02380A02.00869E32@aol.com> Message-ID: As I understand the Scripter's Scrapbook from my brief use of it a year ago is that it is like Adobe Acrobat Viewer or UnStuff or UnSit utilities which become useful when lots of people use them. I was waiting to install Scripter's Scrapbook after there was lots of libraries of scripts on the web site to choose from and then it would be a useful utility. It kind of defeats the whole purpose of getting lots of people to use it if you charge for it? Then after everyone is using it and it is very useful you add "Pro" features to it that the customer has to pay for. One "Pro" feature might be to automatically import all the columns from a database table and make a card with fields for all those columns, labeled, and with database controls active and buttons for next and previous. If some other useful utilities like that were included in the "Pro" version I would certainly pay for it. From jbondy at sover.net Wed Jun 1 15:24:07 2005 From: jbondy at sover.net (Jon) Date: Wed, 01 Jun 2005 15:24:07 -0400 Subject: documentation organizational problems Message-ID: <429E0B57.408@sover.net> Unlike programming languages like Delphi, C, or Java, methods are not explicitly associated with objects in Revolution. This means that it is very difficult to use the Rev documentation to find all of the methods (commands) for images, or for string manipulation. Am I the only one who finds this to be awkward, time consuming, and frustrating? Are there any discussions about how to manipulate strings, with functions similar to (or better than!) traditional Pascal routines like Extract, SubString, Copy, Insert, Delete, Pos, etc? Thanks! Jon From klaus at major-k.de Wed Jun 1 15:27:03 2005 From: klaus at major-k.de (Klaus Major) Date: Wed, 1 Jun 2005 21:27:03 +0200 Subject: IDE get's "stuck" In-Reply-To: <429E0AB4.6060604@sover.net> References: <429E0AB4.6060604@sover.net> Message-ID: <96743DA8-97EF-45DA-8B44-E68EBC061B94@major-k.de> Hi Jon, > If I enter the following handler with "ccw" or "cw", it works > perfectly. When I enter with "flip" or "mirror", the requested > operation is performed perfectly, but afterwards the cursor turns > into a plus sign, and I have to switch from run mode to design mode > and back to run mode before I can run the program again. I'm sure > the change in cursor is a clue as to what is going on, but I don't > understand it. Any hints? Yes, simply add on eline after your IFs :-) See below... > Jon Bondy > > > on menuPick s > if s = "ccw" then > get angle of image "image" > add 90 to it > set angle of image "image" to it > end if > if s = "cw" then > subtract 90 from it > set angle of image "image" to it > end if > if s = "flip" then flip image "image" vertical > if s = "mirror" then flip image "image" horizontal choose browse tool > end menuPick That's it. Klaus Major klaus at major-k.de http://www.major-k.de From eric.chatonet at sosmartsoftware.com Wed Jun 1 15:40:43 2005 From: eric.chatonet at sosmartsoftware.com (Eric Chatonet) Date: Wed, 1 Jun 2005 21:40:43 +0200 Subject: dump newbie image questiosn In-Reply-To: <429E0A71.2050801@sover.net> References: <429E0A71.2050801@sover.net> Message-ID: Hi Jon, The formattedHeight and formattedWidth of an image gives you its actual size. So you can deduce or set the current height and width (zoom in/off) from this value. You can group an image in order to set the boundaries of the part that can be seen by the user (group limits) and change the part he/ she may see by moving the image inside its locked group. When setting an image width or height, it's better to set the lockLoc of this image to true. The rest is up to you :-) Best regards from Paris, Eric Chatonet. Le 1 juin 05 ? 21:20, Jon a ?crit : > Is there any way to specify the magnification ratio of the image > (the ratio between the native/intrinsic size and the displayed > size)? One might want to alter this ratio in order to "zoom" or > "unzoom" an image. Note that I do NOT want a separate "zoom" > window or magnifier. I want to take a image and either display it > to "fit" in a window, or display it "normally" (1:1). > > Is there any way to specify the displayed width of an image > independent of the actual width of the image (in pixels)? One > might want to do this to "fit" an image into a fixed screen space, > even if it is larger or smaller (in pixels) than the screen space. > > I've tried to manipulate real (large) images using the pixels, and > have found Revolution to be stunningly slow (perhaps 100 times > slower than native code). Am I doing it "wrong", or is Revolution > aimed at doing things other than manipulating millions of pixels in > tight loops? > > Thanks! > > Jon ---------------------------------------------------------------- So Smart Software For institutions, companies and associations Built-to-order applications: management, multimedia, internet, etc. Windows, Mac OS and Linux... With the French touch Plugins, tutorials and more on our website ---------------------------------------------------------------- Web site http://www.sosmartsoftware.com/ Email eric.chatonet at sosmartsoftware.com/ Phone 33 (0)1 43 31 77 62 Mobile 33 (0)6 20 74 50 86 ---------------------------------------------------------------- From wdesigns at austin.rr.com Wed Jun 1 15:46:18 2005 From: wdesigns at austin.rr.com (Douglas Westbrook) Date: Wed, 1 Jun 2005 14:46:18 -0500 Subject: level 1 stacks lock together? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <3099C561-EEFB-4005-B587-D8E916EE4E70@austin.rr.com> I am going to to a sub stack of the open main stack ( the open file in the standalone and sending a "mouseup" to the paletted (standalone or first main stack) to a button that drawers the sub stack to it. The really weird part is that it works as expected until some still unknown reason all the level 1 windows move as one. The stacks still operate. When I toplevel the first main stack or the standalone it too locks into the other level 1 stacks and moves as one with them. Each stack still activates and deactivates and moves through the window levels and all the controls work but the stack windows on level 1 move in unison Thanks, Doug On Jun 1, 2005, at 2:19 PM, Jim MacConnell wrote: > Doug, > Sounds weird. Are you manually telling the second stack where to > open (e.g. > setting its location or rect when you first open it?). > > My though is that one of the stacks is being positioned relative to > the > other in an openCard handler or the like that is getting called > when you > don't expect it thereby moving the stacks "together". > > Jim > > >> The questions are: >> What is causing the level 1 stacks to lock together and move as one >> window? >> How do I unlock the level 1 stacks ( without having to relaunch >> revolution or the stand alone)? >> The anomaly of "locked level 1 windows" happens in both the >> development environment and in a file opened by the standalone >> version. >> Thanks, >> Doug >> > > > _______________________________________________ > use-revolution mailing list > use-revolution at lists.runrev.com > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution > From stephenREVOLUTION at barncard.com Wed Jun 1 15:48:31 2005 From: stephenREVOLUTION at barncard.com (Stephen Barncard) Date: Wed, 1 Jun 2005 12:48:31 -0700 Subject: [ANN] The Scripter's Scrapbook version 5 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: I have no problem with paying for software tools, I have bought or donated for software created by several on this list. My problem was that there was a major switch in the distribution method of SSb that caught me unawares and I overwrote the old .rev file with 5.x. Luckily, I had a .zip file of v4 in my archives. I like version 4 just fine, with the exception of the 'code' font which is a variation of Courier, I think, that for some reason on the Mac shows up as being very grey and hard to read.(Has anyone else seen this?). I just have to forgo colorization. I have the same problem with yahoo groups, only worse there. As I communicated with the authors of SSb, I thought the next 4.x version would have at least that oversight fixed. I probably buy it eventually, but a note in the [ANN like, "You've had this for free for a while but I gotta make it pay for itself" would have been nice to know. No big deal. sqb At 3:24 PM -0400 6/1/05, Bill wrote: >As I understand the Scripter's Scrapbook from my brief use of it a year ago >is that it is like Adobe Acrobat Viewer or UnStuff or UnSit utilities which >become useful when lots of people use them. > >I was waiting to install Scripter's Scrapbook after there was lots of >libraries of scripts on the web site to choose from and then it would be a >useful utility. > >It kind of defeats the whole purpose of getting lots of people to use it if >you charge for it? > >Then after everyone is using it and it is very useful you add "Pro" features >to it that the customer has to pay for. One "Pro" feature might be to >automatically import all the columns from a database table and make a card >with fields for all those columns, labeled, and with database controls >active and buttons for next and previous. If some other useful utilities >like that were included in the "Pro" version I would certainly pay for it. > > >_______________________________________________ >use-revolution mailing list >use-revolution at lists.runrev.com >http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution From eric.chatonet at sosmartsoftware.com Wed Jun 1 15:50:19 2005 From: eric.chatonet at sosmartsoftware.com (Eric Chatonet) Date: Wed, 1 Jun 2005 21:50:19 +0200 Subject: IDE get's "stuck" In-Reply-To: <429E0AB4.6060604@sover.net> References: <429E0AB4.6060604@sover.net> Message-ID: Hi Jon again, As usual Klaus is right :-) But another thing might interest you... When you place many if/end if statements, the engine has to explore all of them even though it's not necessary. So you might prefer something like: on menuPick s if s = "ccw" then get angle of image "image" add 90 to it set angle of image "image" to it ELSE if s = "cw" then subtract 90 from it set angle of image "image" to it ELSE if s = "flip" then flip image "image" vertical ELSE if s = "mirror" then flip image "image" horizontal ELSE answer "There is an error I don't understand!" end if choose browse tool end menuPick Better, have a look at the switch structure in the docs, much more convenient to trap a menuPick message :-) Best regards from Paris, Eric Chatonet. Le 1 juin 05 ? 21:21, Jon a ?crit : > If I enter the following handler with "ccw" or "cw", it works > perfectly. When I enter with "flip" or "mirror", the requested > operation is performed perfectly, but afterwards the cursor turns > into a plus sign, and I have to switch from run mode to design mode > and back to run mode before I can run the program again. I'm sure > the change in cursor is a clue as to what is going on, but I don't > understand it. Any hints? > > Jon Bondy > > > on menuPick s > if s = "ccw" then > get angle of image "image" > add 90 to it > set angle of image "image" to it > end if > if s = "cw" then > subtract 90 from it > set angle of image "image" to it > end if > if s = "flip" then flip image "image" vertical > if s = "mirror" then flip image "image" horizontal > end menuPick --------------------------------------------------------------- So Smart Software For institutions, companies and associations Built-to-order applications: management, multimedia, internet, etc. Windows, Mac OS and Linux... With the French touch Plugins, tutorials and more on our website ---------------------------------------------------------------- Web site http://www.sosmartsoftware.com/ Email eric.chatonet at sosmartsoftware.com/ Phone 33 (0)1 43 31 77 62 Mobile 33 (0)6 20 74 50 86 ---------------------------------------------------------------- From see3d at writeme.com Wed Jun 1 15:54:28 2005 From: see3d at writeme.com (Dennis Brown) Date: Wed, 01 Jun 2005 15:54:28 -0400 Subject: [ANN] Property List Table version 4 --Final??? for Rev 2.5.1 In-Reply-To: <2DE2E3B3-EDAE-4C9F-8B4F-595A5A1AE048@writeme.com> References: <22BD69AE-90C9-4D52-B181-81FB45F8764D@writeme.com> <9A41A053-5AD4-494C-BC03-39E5E0DE2CB0@writeme.com> <13352199999.20050528230840@ahsoftware.net> <2DE2E3B3-EDAE-4C9F-8B4F-595A5A1AE048@writeme.com> Message-ID: Well, just as soon as I thought I had everything finalized on this stack, Eric Chatonet (the guy who got me going with some script ideas in the first place) took my stack and made major improvements to it for his own use. It has been quite an education for me to work on this stack, and even more so having someone like Eric rewrite it in his style and experience for me to study from. He has allowed me to use his improvements and share them with everyone. I made a few further tweaks to the functionality of the stack and to get rid of a mysterious bug. I have uploaded the latest version to my user space (see3d). I have set the stack to topLevel to make it easy for looking at the scripts. It can be put into the plug-in folder and set to run modeless. It functions best as a reference when set to run modeless. There is a commented line in the script for this if you want to force this style. Here is a list the major functional improvements: --Allowed arrow keys to select a line (will also open the docs if the left column was clicked) --Allowed search in the list with the keyboard (first letter only) --Set the unused properties for a (sorted) object class to gray --Fixed some dysfunctions when displaying the docs ("search for" option preselected, similar entries, Rev version, etc.) --Allowed opening the docs only when the left column is clicked --Updated the topic displayed in the docs in real time when the mouse is kept down in the left column (this feature needs a fast machine) --Added enterKey and returnKey to open the docs --Put all code into the card's script Dennis On May 31, 2005, at 7:51 PM, Dennis Brown wrote: > Oops, one more try at the final version. > From FlexibleLearning at aol.com Wed Jun 1 16:05:53 2005 From: FlexibleLearning at aol.com (FlexibleLearning at aol.com) Date: Wed, 1 Jun 2005 16:05:53 EDT Subject: [ANN] The Scripter's Scrapbook version 5 Message-ID: <9.452ad16a.2fcf6f21@aol.com> Hi Stephen, I don't think ssBk has actually done a 'nasty thing'. The new version does not over-write anything. All upgrades are saved to a separate folder, and the original is left untouched. Do try the new version... You may like it, and the price is not really very high especially at the moment for all the features you get after being supported for so long without charge. To clarify, though, version 5 gives you an unlimited 30-day free trial. Up to 15 June, ssBk is half price at only ?19.98, hardly bank-breaking and priced to ensure that ssBk is sufficiently funded to evolve and develop with expectations. Thank you for your support by using the free version in the past. I hope you will continue to support the program now it is available to purchase to grow from strength to strength. /H From ambassador at fourthworld.com Wed Jun 1 16:14:42 2005 From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin) Date: Wed, 01 Jun 2005 13:14:42 -0700 Subject: [ANN] The Scripter's Scrapbook version 5 In-Reply-To: <6758F178.02380A02.00869E32@aol.com> References: <6758F178.02380A02.00869E32@aol.com> Message-ID: <429E1732.6050404@fourthworld.com> Vjstbenz at aol.com wrote: > if you are having those problems...may i surgest ShadowUser > Pro v2.5 for windows... > > you can get it free...at ...[RANDOM CRACK SITE DELETED]... > (10's of thousands of dollars worth of free software > (serials for TRIALS etc) Dude, you're really batting 1000. ShadowUser is a commercial product that costs US$69. While affordable, it's certainly not free. Let me explain a little bit about how life works, and I pray this will be all the education you'll need to begin a productive life: The site you referenced is an illegal distribution point for copyright violations. The c r a c k z and ser ial z posted there violate international copyright agreements and carry stiff penalties in the US under the DMCA. Maybe you haven't noticed, but the Rev community is filled with people who make software. Much of what these folks make is commercial, and require serial numbers that are sometimes illegally posted on Chinese (and Korean and Russian...) sites like the one you referenced in Hong Kong. While most people who use cr ac kz and se ri alz are never likely to become customers anyway, there are those who would and the easy availability of serial numbers hurts those who earn their living by making software. Those hit the hardest are often smaller software shops of the sort who populate this list. So while freeloaders lounge at the beach on other people's time, the folks here are working late to make up the difference. By supporting these crimes you will not make friends here. Life works like this: you give value for value recieved. When you benefit from another's labor, if it's a gift you accept it graciously and if it's not you trade something of value in exchange for it. When both sides act in earnest, the collective value of their world increases for the benefit of all. But when you benefit from another's labor and give nothing back you are effectively treating that person as your personal slave. Civilized people banned slavery long ago; you would do well to join them. I grew up in a town where cowboys would pick up Mexican immigrants and work them all day, and at the end of the day just toss them out of their truck without pay, laughing with the knowledge that the workers had no recourse. By supporting piracy you are pretty much doing the same thing to software developers; you might just as well break into ShadowStor's Utah office and steal $69 from their petty cash drawer. If you wish to demonstrate any ethical consistency, at this point you have two options: a) stop freeloading, pay for all the commercial software on your drive, and apologize to the authors for ever having stolen from them in the first place. b) offer your time/products/services to the world for free, as you apparently expect from others. It's never to late to begin a productive life. -- Richard Gaskin From jbondy at sover.net Wed Jun 1 16:30:04 2005 From: jbondy at sover.net (Jon) Date: Wed, 01 Jun 2005 16:30:04 -0400 Subject: IDE get's "stuck" In-Reply-To: <96743DA8-97EF-45DA-8B44-E68EBC061B94@major-k.de> References: <429E0AB4.6060604@sover.net> <96743DA8-97EF-45DA-8B44-E68EBC061B94@major-k.de> Message-ID: <429E1ACC.8040007@sover.net> Thanks, Klaus, but can you explain what is going on (in addition to fixing it!) :) Jon Klaus Major wrote: > Hi Jon, > >> If I enter the following handler with "ccw" or "cw", it works >> perfectly. When I enter with "flip" or "mirror", the requested >> operation is performed perfectly, but afterwards the cursor turns >> into a plus sign, and I have to switch from run mode to design mode >> and back to run mode before I can run the program again. I'm sure >> the change in cursor is a clue as to what is going on, but I don't >> understand it. Any hints? > > > Yes, simply add on eline after your IFs :-) > See below... > >> Jon Bondy >> >> >> on menuPick s >> if s = "ccw" then >> get angle of image "image" >> add 90 to it >> set angle of image "image" to it >> end if >> if s = "cw" then >> subtract 90 from it >> set angle of image "image" to it >> end if >> if s = "flip" then flip image "image" vertical >> if s = "mirror" then flip image "image" horizontal > > choose browse tool > >> end menuPick > > > That's it. > > Klaus Major > klaus at major-k.de > http://www.major-k.de > > _______________________________________________ > use-revolution mailing list > use-revolution at lists.runrev.com > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution > > From klaus at major-k.de Wed Jun 1 16:38:31 2005 From: klaus at major-k.de (Klaus Major) Date: Wed, 1 Jun 2005 22:38:31 +0200 Subject: IDE get's "stuck" In-Reply-To: <429E1ACC.8040007@sover.net> References: <429E0AB4.6060604@sover.net> <96743DA8-97EF-45DA-8B44-E68EBC061B94@major-k.de> <429E1ACC.8040007@sover.net> Message-ID: Hi Jon, > Thanks, Klaus, but can you explain what is going on (in addition to > fixing it!) sure :-) The IDE is switching to the pointer tool (but i don't know why...? Maybe because it needs the right tool for the job ;-) and the line will reset the "tool" to the browse tool. > :) > > Jon Regards Klaus Major klaus at major-k.de http://www.major-k.de From revdan at danshafer.com Wed Jun 1 16:49:45 2005 From: revdan at danshafer.com (Dan Shafer) Date: Wed, 1 Jun 2005 13:49:45 -0700 Subject: documentation organizational problems In-Reply-To: <429E0B57.408@sover.net> References: <429E0B57.408@sover.net> Message-ID: <6A257836-84F9-44B6-A525-A3B94F3C6AF0@danshafer.com> I agree, at least in large part, Jon. It might be possible for one of the Rev gurus hereabouts to create a stack similar to the properties table stack just released that lists all the commands/functions and the objects for which they are relevant. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Dan Shafer, Co-Chair RevConWest '05 June 17-18, 2005, Monterey, California http://www.altuit.com/webs/altuit/RevConWest On Jun 1, 2005, at 12:24 PM, Jon wrote: > Unlike programming languages like Delphi, C, or Java, methods are > not explicitly associated with objects in Revolution. This means > that it is very difficult to use the Rev documentation to find all > of the methods (commands) for images, or for string manipulation. > Am I the only one who finds this to be awkward, time consuming, and > frustrating? Are there any discussions about how to manipulate > strings, with functions similar to (or better than!) traditional > Pascal routines like Extract, SubString, Copy, Insert, Delete, Pos, > etc? > > Thanks! > > Jon > _______________________________________________ > use-revolution mailing list > use-revolution at lists.runrev.com > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution > > From douggilliland at gmail.com Wed Jun 1 17:09:01 2005 From: douggilliland at gmail.com (Douglas Gilliland) Date: Wed, 1 Jun 2005 17:09:01 -0400 Subject: audioClip In-Reply-To: <429DF12F.90506@tweedly.net> References: <429DF12F.90506@tweedly.net> Message-ID: <890e3d2605060114097d15d09@mail.gmail.com> I'm using Dreamcard but it should be the same in Revolution: 1. Go to File and drag down to Import as Control. Select Audio file. 2. Navigate to the sound file you wish to import into your stack and select Open. The sound file is now imported into your stack. If you imported a sound file named OhYeah.wav you can access it by using the following script: play "OhYeah.wav" While this works for me, I've only been using Dreamcard for a week so there may be some other way. But this way works for me. Doug Gilliland On 6/1/05, Alex Tweedly wrote: > Sorry, this feels like a really dumb question, but I've already wasted > my required two hours searching through the docs ..... > > How do I create an audio clip within a stack ? > > I have a wav file - but I want to include it as a clip within the stack. > I can find all kinds of ways to change it, to play it, to change the > defaults used when I create a new audioclip - but I'll be darned if I > can find out how to actually create one. > > I know it's not "create" - that's only for items that go on a card. > I can't use copy or clone - I don't have one yet to do that with :-) > > So if someone could give me a pointer to the bit of the docs that I > can't find, I'd be very grateful. > > Thanks > -- Alex. > > -- > Alex Tweedly http://www.tweedly.net > > > > -- > No virus found in this outgoing message. > Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. > Version: 7.0.322 / Virus Database: 267.3.0 - Release Date: 30/05/2005 > > _______________________________________________ > use-revolution mailing list > use-revolution at lists.runrev.com > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution > From jacque at hyperactivesw.com Wed Jun 1 17:21:50 2005 From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay) Date: Wed, 01 Jun 2005 16:21:50 -0500 Subject: documentation organizational problems In-Reply-To: <429E0B57.408@sover.net> References: <429E0B57.408@sover.net> Message-ID: <429E26EE.5090702@hyperactivesw.com> On 6/1/05 2:24 PM, Jon wrote: > Unlike programming languages like Delphi, C, or Java, methods are not > explicitly associated with objects in Revolution. This means that it is > very difficult to use the Rev documentation to find all of the methods > (commands) for images, or for string manipulation. Am I the only one > who finds this to be awkward, time consuming, and frustrating? I think what you want (if I understand right) is in the docs already. Click the "Objects" icon at the top of the documentation window. Under each heading (which represents an object) is a list of commands and properties associated with that object. -- Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com From jacque at hyperactivesw.com Wed Jun 1 17:23:56 2005 From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay) Date: Wed, 01 Jun 2005 16:23:56 -0500 Subject: dump newbie image questiosn In-Reply-To: <429E0A71.2050801@sover.net> References: <429E0A71.2050801@sover.net> Message-ID: <429E276C.6020703@hyperactivesw.com> On 6/1/05 2:20 PM, Jon wrote: > Is there any way to specify the magnification ratio of the image (the > ratio between the native/intrinsic size and the displayed size)? One > might want to alter this ratio in order to "zoom" or "unzoom" an > image. Note that I do NOT want a separate "zoom" window or magnifier. > I want to take a image and either display it to "fit" in a window, or > display it "normally" (1:1). > > Is there any way to specify the displayed width of an image independent > of the actual width of the image (in pixels)? One might want to do this > to "fit" an image into a fixed screen space, even if it is larger or > smaller (in pixels) than the screen space. > > I've tried to manipulate real (large) images using the pixels, and have > found Revolution to be stunningly slow (perhaps 100 times slower than > native code). Am I doing it "wrong", or is Revolution aimed at doing > things other than manipulating millions of pixels in tight loops? Lots of old threads on this do exactly what you want. Go here: and search for the words "zoom image". You'll get scripts and everything. -- Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com From shaosean at unitz.ca Wed Jun 1 17:22:08 2005 From: shaosean at unitz.ca (shaosean at unitz.ca) Date: Wed, 01 Jun 2005 17:22:08 -0400 Subject: Crashing during printing Message-ID: RunRev 2.5.1 Mac OS X 10.3.9 I've created a stack is used to create multi-page documents (hundreds and thousands) and whenever I try to print it makes it up to "Processing Page: 129" and then crashes. This is happening in standalones, as well as in the IDE (stopped and running). Anyone else having problems printing huge documents? Each card is one 8.5x11 sheet of paper (it's all been worked out). -Sean From eric.chatonet at sosmartsoftware.com Wed Jun 1 17:33:02 2005 From: eric.chatonet at sosmartsoftware.com (Eric Chatonet) Date: Wed, 1 Jun 2005 23:33:02 +0200 Subject: Crashing during printing In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hello Sean, Could it be something like 129 = 2*2*2*2*2*2*2... + 1 :-) Just a thought... Le 1 juin 05 ? 23:22, shaosean at unitz.ca a ?crit : > RunRev 2.5.1 > Mac OS X 10.3.9 > > I've created a stack is used to create multi-page documents > (hundreds and thousands) and > whenever I try to print it makes it up to "Processing Page: 129" > and then crashes. This is > happening in standalones, as well as in the IDE (stopped and running). > > Anyone else having problems printing huge documents? Each card is > one 8.5x11 sheet of paper > (it's all been worked out). > > -Sean Best regards from Paris, Eric Chatonet. ---------------------------------------------------------------- So Smart Software For institutions, companies and associations Built-to-order applications: management, multimedia, internet, etc. Windows, Mac OS and Linux... With the French touch Plugins, tutorials and more on our website ---------------------------------------------------------------- Web site http://www.sosmartsoftware.com/ Email eric.chatonet at sosmartsoftware.com/ Phone 33 (0)1 43 31 77 62 Mobile 33 (0)6 20 74 50 86 ---------------------------------------------------------------- From FlexibleLearning at aol.com Wed Jun 1 17:34:55 2005 From: FlexibleLearning at aol.com (FlexibleLearning at aol.com) Date: Wed, 1 Jun 2005 17:34:55 EDT Subject: [ANN] The Scripter's Scrapbook version 5 Message-ID: <54.456180d9.2fcf83ff@aol.com> For this reason, version 5 allows you to define your own monospaced font and size. /H >like version 4 just fine, with the exception of the 'code' font >which is a variation of Courier, I think, that for some reason on the >Mac shows up as being very grey and hard to read.(Has anyone else >seen this?). I just have to forgo colorization. From chipp at chipp.com Wed Jun 1 17:54:06 2005 From: chipp at chipp.com (Chipp Walters) Date: Wed, 01 Jun 2005 16:54:06 -0500 Subject: Crashing during printing In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <429E2E7E.3040002@chipp.com> Not that it's any help, but I, too, have seen the 'crashing printing large docuements' bug before. I ended up batching the print jobs, but never traced it down to a repeatable bug, so didn't file it. best, Chipp shaosean at unitz.ca wrote: > RunRev 2.5.1 > Mac OS X 10.3.9 > > I've created a stack is used to create multi-page documents (hundreds and thousands) and > whenever I try to print it makes it up to "Processing Page: 129" and then crashes. This is > happening in standalones, as well as in the IDE (stopped and running). > > Anyone else having problems printing huge documents? Each card is one 8.5x11 sheet of paper > (it's all been worked out). -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.322 / Virus Database: 267.4.0 - Release Date: 6/1/2005 From jbondy at sover.net Wed Jun 1 18:03:24 2005 From: jbondy at sover.net (Jon) Date: Wed, 01 Jun 2005 18:03:24 -0400 Subject: documentation organizational problems In-Reply-To: <429E26EE.5090702@hyperactivesw.com> References: <429E0B57.408@sover.net> <429E26EE.5090702@hyperactivesw.com> Message-ID: <429E30AC.7030104@sover.net> Jaqueline: What I find under Objects is a list of properties and messages, but no commands. Do you see something different? :) Jon J. Landman Gay wrote: > On 6/1/05 2:24 PM, Jon wrote: > >> Unlike programming languages like Delphi, C, or Java, methods are not >> explicitly associated with objects in Revolution. This means that it >> is very difficult to use the Rev documentation to find all of the >> methods (commands) for images, or for string manipulation. Am I the >> only one who finds this to be awkward, time consuming, and frustrating? > > > I think what you want (if I understand right) is in the docs already. > Click the "Objects" icon at the top of the documentation window. Under > each heading (which represents an object) is a list of commands and > properties associated with that object. > From eric.chatonet at sosmartsoftware.com Wed Jun 1 18:12:22 2005 From: eric.chatonet at sosmartsoftware.com (Eric Chatonet) Date: Thu, 2 Jun 2005 00:12:22 +0200 Subject: documentation organizational problems In-Reply-To: <429E26EE.5090702@hyperactivesw.com> References: <429E0B57.408@sover.net> <429E26EE.5090702@hyperactivesw.com> Message-ID: <5FF5337D-6762-48BE-8C09-4A94C5962C31@sosmartsoftware.com> Hi Jacque and everyone, Lists of commands, properties, functions, etc. related to objects are very useful for advanced users. The same lists but related to actions, work with text strings, images, internet, windows, etc. would be more efficient for beginners. When you begin, you don't know the language: you only know the action you want to perform... Is what I want possible? Which words can I use for a result, not for an object :-) Rev docs are made by programmers for programmers. As for me, I don't complain... As for newbies: move away or expect you will have to make a very significant effort to answer the mystery! Don't you regret this? Best regards from Paris, Eric Chatonet. Le 1 juin 05 ? 23:21, J. Landman Gay a ?crit : > On 6/1/05 2:24 PM, Jon wrote: > > >> Unlike programming languages like Delphi, C, or Java, methods are >> not explicitly associated with objects in Revolution. This means >> that it is very difficult to use the Rev documentation to find all >> of the methods (commands) for images, or for string manipulation. >> Am I the only one who finds this to be awkward, time consuming, >> and frustrating? >> > > I think what you want (if I understand right) is in the docs > already. Click the "Objects" icon at the top of the documentation > window. Under each heading (which represents an object) is a list > of commands and properties associated with that object. > > -- > Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com > HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com ---------------------------------------------------------------- So Smart Software For institutions, companies and associations Built-to-order applications: management, multimedia, internet, etc. Windows, Mac OS and Linux... With the French touch Plugins, tutorials and more on our website ---------------------------------------------------------------- Web site http://www.sosmartsoftware.com/ Email eric.chatonet at sosmartsoftware.com/ Phone 33 (0)1 43 31 77 62 Mobile 33 (0)6 20 74 50 86 ---------------------------------------------------------------- From emilio at ualberta.ca Wed Jun 1 18:14:24 2005 From: emilio at ualberta.ca (Emilio Gagliardi) Date: Wed, 1 Jun 2005 16:14:24 -0600 Subject: creating drag-and-drop Message-ID: Hi all, I want to create a simple screen that allows a user to drag a button from the center of the screen to one of three hotspots and then run some function. The problem I am having is the interaction between object that I use to define the hotspot (an image) and the button I want the user to move around. I thought it would be best to use an image with a fixed size to define a portion of the card to accept a "drop". However, the messages don't seem to move as I would expect. That is, i can drag the button around no problem, but to detect whether some portion of the button is over the image is proving odd. For example, you I release the mouse outside the image object *on mouseUp* fires correctly and *is within* correctly returns false. However, when I drag the button over the image and release while over the image, *on mouseUp* doesn't fire at all. The functionality I'm looking to create is a snap-to mechanism that detects whether the button is over any part of the image and then snap the button to a position relative to the image. The end result is that I need to know which buttons were dragged into the three hot zones so I can store that information. Any suggestions is greatly appreciated. Cheers, Emilio From jbondy at sover.net Wed Jun 1 18:26:46 2005 From: jbondy at sover.net (Jon) Date: Wed, 01 Jun 2005 18:26:46 -0400 Subject: resizeable stacks Message-ID: <429E3626.40906@sover.net> I have the Size and Position tab set so that Resizable is checked, but still the window/stack cannot be resized by the user at run-time. What is the secret? :) Jon From eric.chatonet at sosmartsoftware.com Wed Jun 1 18:28:43 2005 From: eric.chatonet at sosmartsoftware.com (Eric Chatonet) Date: Thu, 2 Jun 2005 00:28:43 +0200 Subject: creating drag-and-drop In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hi Emilio, About snap an object to a predefined position, just set the loc (or another property as the topLeft, the bottom, etc.) of this object when the user releases the mouse. As for drag and drop, you might be interested by my How-To stack #010 How to drag and drop files and folders. (It's the same way of doing with objects) Access it by running in the message box: go url "http://www.sosmartsoftware.com/downloads/Managing%20Drag%20and %20Drop.rev" Best regards from Paris, Eric Chatonet. Le 2 juin 05 ? 00:14, Emilio Gagliardi a ?crit : > Hi all, > I want to create a simple screen that allows a user to drag a > button from the center of the screen to one of three hotspots and > then run some function. > > The problem I am having is the interaction between object that I > use to define the hotspot (an image) and the button I want the user > to move around. I thought it would be best to use an image with a > fixed size to define a portion of the card to accept a "drop". > However, the messages don't seem to move as I would expect. That > is, i can drag the button around no problem, but to detect whether > some portion of the button is over the image is proving odd. For > example, you I release the mouse outside the image object *on > mouseUp* fires correctly and *is within* correctly returns false. > > However, when I drag the button over the image and release while > over the image, *on mouseUp* doesn't fire at all. The > functionality I'm looking to create is a snap-to mechanism that > detects whether the button is over any part of the image and then > snap the button to a position relative to the image. The end > result is that I need to know which buttons were dragged into the > three hot zones so I can store that information. > > Any suggestions is greatly appreciated. > > Cheers, > Emilio ---------------------------------------------------------------- So Smart Software For institutions, companies and associations Built-to-order applications: management, multimedia, internet, etc. Windows, Mac OS and Linux... With the French touch Plugins, tutorials and more on our website ---------------------------------------------------------------- Web site http://www.sosmartsoftware.com/ Email eric.chatonet at sosmartsoftware.com/ Phone 33 (0)1 43 31 77 62 Mobile 33 (0)6 20 74 50 86 ---------------------------------------------------------------- From ambassador at fourthworld.com Wed Jun 1 18:30:12 2005 From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin) Date: Wed, 01 Jun 2005 15:30:12 -0700 Subject: resizeable stacks In-Reply-To: <429E3626.40906@sover.net> References: <429E3626.40906@sover.net> Message-ID: <429E36F4.4060704@fourthworld.com> Jon wrote: > I have the Size and Position tab set so that Resizable is checked, but > still the window/stack cannot be resized by the user at run-time. What > is the secret? Which platform? -- Richard Gaskin Fourth World Media Corporation __________________________________________________ Rev tools and more: http://www.fourthworld.com/rev From jbondy at sover.net Wed Jun 1 18:31:23 2005 From: jbondy at sover.net (Jon) Date: Wed, 01 Jun 2005 18:31:23 -0400 Subject: finding "global" procedures Message-ID: <429E373B.6000202@sover.net> I want to write some utility routines that can be used by lots of message handlers. Where do I put those utility routines so that the event handlers can "see" the utility routines? Do I have to declare them as Global, or just put them in a particular place? Thanks! Jon From jbondy at sover.net Wed Jun 1 18:32:12 2005 From: jbondy at sover.net (Jon) Date: Wed, 01 Jun 2005 18:32:12 -0400 Subject: resizeable stacks In-Reply-To: <429E36F4.4060704@fourthworld.com> References: <429E3626.40906@sover.net> <429E36F4.4060704@fourthworld.com> Message-ID: <429E376C.5050404@sover.net> I thought this was a platform independent development environment... Windoze ... for the time being Jon Richard Gaskin wrote: > Jon wrote: > >> I have the Size and Position tab set so that Resizable is checked, >> but still the window/stack cannot be resized by the user at >> run-time. What is the secret? > > > Which platform? > > -- > Richard Gaskin > Fourth World Media Corporation > __________________________________________________ > Rev tools and more: http://www.fourthworld.com/rev > _______________________________________________ > use-revolution mailing list > use-revolution at lists.runrev.com > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution > > From briany at qldlearning.com Wed Jun 1 18:38:24 2005 From: briany at qldlearning.com (Brian Yennie) Date: Wed, 1 Jun 2005 15:38:24 -0700 Subject: documentation organizational problems In-Reply-To: <429E30AC.7030104@sover.net> References: <429E0B57.408@sover.net> <429E26EE.5090702@hyperactivesw.com> <429E30AC.7030104@sover.net> Message-ID: Jon, Revolution objects generally _are_ manipulated by setting properties and sending or processing messages. For the most part, you: 1) Write "handlers" to respond to "messages" -- this is like a Java listener, except that Revolution is always listening. So if you want something to happen in response to an event, consult the "messages" for that object on mouseUp answer "You clicked me!" end mouseUp 2) Set properties to manipulate physical objects -- there are no accessor methods So if you want to change something ABOUT an object, consult the "properties" set the icon of button "MyButton" to 4000 get the icon of button "MyButton" That is, there is no "setIcon()" method, and there is no "setMouseUpListener()". Now there are exceptions, and the documentation doesn't necessarily do justice to all of the relationships, but I think you'll find more than you are expecting available via properties and messages. For example, for images here are just a few: set the fileName of img "myImage" to "/images/happy.jpg" set the height of img "myImage" to 200 set the angle of img "myImage" to 90 set the borderWidth of img "myImage" to 4 set the imageData of img "myImage" to img "otherImage" on mouseUp if (the fileName of me contains "happy") then answer "I am happy!" else answer "I am sad!" end mouseUp Now there _are_ other top level commands, i.e. delete img "myImage" create image select image "myImage" But you'll find that these are lesser in number, and apply to all sorts of objects- so the learning curve is not all that bad. Hope that helps a little. - Brian > Jaqueline: > > What I find under Objects is a list of properties and messages, but no > commands. Do you see something different? > > :) > > Jon > > > J. Landman Gay wrote: > >> On 6/1/05 2:24 PM, Jon wrote: >> >>> Unlike programming languages like Delphi, C, or Java, methods are >>> not explicitly associated with objects in Revolution. This means >>> that it is very difficult to use the Rev documentation to find all >>> of the methods (commands) for images, or for string manipulation. >>> Am I the only one who finds this to be awkward, time consuming, and >>> frustrating? >> >> >> I think what you want (if I understand right) is in the docs already. >> Click the "Objects" icon at the top of the documentation window. >> Under each heading (which represents an object) is a list of commands >> and properties associated with that object. >> > _______________________________________________ > use-revolution mailing list > use-revolution at lists.runrev.com > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution > > From jbondy at sover.net Wed Jun 1 18:39:57 2005 From: jbondy at sover.net (Jon) Date: Wed, 01 Jun 2005 18:39:57 -0400 Subject: IDE blowing up a lot Message-ID: <429E393D.8070303@sover.net> Every so often, when I try to click on Files, to do a Save, the IDE just disappears, and all is lost. Pretty frustrating and anxiety provoking. So now I'm saving (using the Application Browser, which does not blow up) all of the time. But whenever I forget, I'm screwed. Anyone else seeing this problem? Jon From jbondy at sover.net Wed Jun 1 18:43:50 2005 From: jbondy at sover.net (Jon) Date: Wed, 01 Jun 2005 18:43:50 -0400 Subject: documentation organizational problems In-Reply-To: References: <429E0B57.408@sover.net> <429E26EE.5090702@hyperactivesw.com> <429E30AC.7030104@sover.net> Message-ID: <429E3A26.4090001@sover.net> Brian: Thanks for your comments. My problem was spending hours trying to write a Flip routine, only to come across it by accident. There was no clue that it existed from looking at the Image properties or events. After this accidental encounter, I now feel as if I have to learn every single detail before proceeding at all, which is daunting and frustrating. Thus my comment that associating the "methods" with the objects would have been a good idea. And if that was not possible architecturally, at least document them somewhere. And then I tried to do some string manipulations (change the string <"FRED"> to the string , that is, remove the quotes), and simply gave up: there is no section on how to manage strings. I know I'm coming from another programming environment, and I don't expect it to be trivial, but when I can't find any information at all, I get frustrated. I can't be the first one... :) Jon Brian Yennie wrote: > Jon, > > Revolution objects generally _are_ manipulated by setting properties > and sending or processing messages. > > For the most part, you: > > 1) Write "handlers" to respond to "messages" -- this is like a Java > listener, except that Revolution is always listening. > So if you want something to happen in response to an event, > consult the "messages" for that object > > on mouseUp > answer "You clicked me!" > end mouseUp > > 2) Set properties to manipulate physical objects -- there are no > accessor methods > So if you want to change something ABOUT an object, consult the > "properties" > > set the icon of button "MyButton" to 4000 > get the icon of button "MyButton" > > That is, there is no "setIcon()" method, and there is no > "setMouseUpListener()". > > Now there are exceptions, and the documentation doesn't necessarily do > justice to all of the relationships, but I think you'll find more than > you are expecting available via properties and messages. > > For example, for images here are just a few: > > set the fileName of img "myImage" to "/images/happy.jpg" > set the height of img "myImage" to 200 > set the angle of img "myImage" to 90 > set the borderWidth of img "myImage" to 4 > set the imageData of img "myImage" to img "otherImage" > > on mouseUp > if (the fileName of me contains "happy") then answer "I am happy!" > else answer "I am sad!" > end mouseUp > > Now there _are_ other top level commands, i.e. > > delete img "myImage" > create image > select image "myImage" > > But you'll find that these are lesser in number, and apply to all > sorts of objects- so the learning curve is not all that bad. > > Hope that helps a little. > > - Brian > > > >> Jaqueline: >> >> What I find under Objects is a list of properties and messages, but >> no commands. Do you see something different? >> >> :) >> >> Jon >> >> >> J. Landman Gay wrote: >> >>> On 6/1/05 2:24 PM, Jon wrote: >>> >>>> Unlike programming languages like Delphi, C, or Java, methods are >>>> not explicitly associated with objects in Revolution. This means >>>> that it is very difficult to use the Rev documentation to find all >>>> of the methods (commands) for images, or for string manipulation. >>>> Am I the only one who finds this to be awkward, time consuming, and >>>> frustrating? >>> >>> >>> >>> I think what you want (if I understand right) is in the docs >>> already. Click the "Objects" icon at the top of the documentation >>> window. Under each heading (which represents an object) is a list of >>> commands and properties associated with that object. >>> >> _______________________________________________ >> use-revolution mailing list >> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution >> >> > > _______________________________________________ > use-revolution mailing list > use-revolution at lists.runrev.com > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution > > From lists at mangomultimedia.com Wed Jun 1 18:53:58 2005 From: lists at mangomultimedia.com (Trevor DeVore) Date: Wed, 1 Jun 2005 15:53:58 -0700 Subject: resizeable stacks In-Reply-To: <429E3626.40906@sover.net> References: <429E3626.40906@sover.net> Message-ID: On Jun 1, 2005, at 3:26 PM, Jon wrote: > I have the Size and Position tab set so that Resizable is checked, but > still the window/stack cannot be resized by the user at run-time. > What is the secret? What are the minWidth/maxWidth and minHeight/maxHeight properties set to on that tab? -- Trevor DeVore Blue Mango Multimedia trevor at mangomultimedia.com From ambassador at fourthworld.com Wed Jun 1 18:55:13 2005 From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin) Date: Wed, 01 Jun 2005 15:55:13 -0700 Subject: resizeable stacks In-Reply-To: <429E376C.5050404@sover.net> References: <429E3626.40906@sover.net> <429E36F4.4060704@fourthworld.com> <429E376C.5050404@sover.net> Message-ID: <429E3CD1.40609@fourthworld.com> Jon wrote (re-arranged in standard top-to-bottom reading order): >> Jon wrote: >> >>> I have the Size and Position tab set so that Resizable is checked, >>> but still the window/stack cannot be resized by the user at >>> run-time. What is the secret? >> >> Which platform? > > I thought this was a platform independent development environment... > > Windoze ... for the time being It's not so bad, as long as you don't do any mission-critical work on such a vulnerable-by-design system. :) Check the liveResizing property, and makes sure it's off on Windows. There's an engine bug in which that property should have no effect on Win (since windows always work that way there), but instead it has a nasty side-effect of making them unresizable. I think there's a Bugzilla report on this.... -- Richard Gaskin Fourth World Media Corporation __________________________________________________ Rev tools and more: http://www.fourthworld.com/rev From irog at mac.com Wed Jun 1 18:57:26 2005 From: irog at mac.com (Roger Guay) Date: Wed, 1 Jun 2005 15:57:26 -0700 Subject: Inverse of Palette?? Message-ID: <0BD280CA-1425-4603-968B-C894D83BA62A@mac.com> Hi everyone, I know how to make keep a stack on top of others using the Palette Command. What I want is a way to send a stack to the back of several other open stacks. Any such thing?? TIA, Roger From jbondy at sover.net Wed Jun 1 18:57:51 2005 From: jbondy at sover.net (Jon) Date: Wed, 01 Jun 2005 18:57:51 -0400 Subject: resizeable stacks In-Reply-To: References: <429E3626.40906@sover.net> Message-ID: <429E3D6F.2050808@sover.net> 32 and 65K :) Trevor DeVore wrote: > On Jun 1, 2005, at 3:26 PM, Jon wrote: > >> I have the Size and Position tab set so that Resizable is checked, >> but still the window/stack cannot be resized by the user at >> run-time. What is the secret? > > > What are the minWidth/maxWidth and minHeight/maxHeight properties set > to on that tab? > > From ambassador at fourthworld.com Wed Jun 1 18:58:19 2005 From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin) Date: Wed, 01 Jun 2005 15:58:19 -0700 Subject: finding "global" procedures In-Reply-To: <429E373B.6000202@sover.net> References: <429E373B.6000202@sover.net> Message-ID: <429E3D8B.8090905@fourthworld.com> Jon wrote: > I want to write some utility routines that can be used by lots of > message handlers. Where do I put those utility routines so that the > event handlers can "see" the utility routines? Do I have to declare > them as Global, or just put them in a particular place? This may help: Extending the Runtime Revolution Message Path: An introduction to using Libraries, FrontScripts, and BackScripts in Revolution's Transcript Programming Language -- Richard Gaskin Fourth World Media Corporation __________________________________________________ Rev tools and more: http://www.fourthworld.com/rev From jbondy at sover.net Wed Jun 1 18:59:09 2005 From: jbondy at sover.net (Jon) Date: Wed, 01 Jun 2005 18:59:09 -0400 Subject: resizeable stacks In-Reply-To: <429E3CD1.40609@fourthworld.com> References: <429E3626.40906@sover.net> <429E36F4.4060704@fourthworld.com> <429E376C.5050404@sover.net> <429E3CD1.40609@fourthworld.com> Message-ID: <429E3DBD.9010104@sover.net> LiveResizing is off. Still won't resize... :) Richard Gaskin wrote: > Jon wrote (re-arranged in standard top-to-bottom reading order): > > >> Jon wrote: > >> > >>> I have the Size and Position tab set so that Resizable is checked, > >>> but still the window/stack cannot be resized by the user at > >>> run-time. What is the secret? > >> > > Check the liveResizing property, and makes sure it's off on Windows. > There's an engine bug in which that property should have no effect on > Win (since windows always work that way there), but instead it has a > nasty side-effect of making them unresizable. > > I think there's a Bugzilla report on this.... > > -- > Richard Gaskin > Fourth World Media Corporation > __________________________________________________ > Rev tools and more: http://www.fourthworld.com/rev > _______________________________________________ > use-revolution mailing list > use-revolution at lists.runrev.com > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution > > From Vjstbenz at aol.com Wed Jun 1 19:03:59 2005 From: Vjstbenz at aol.com (Vjstbenz at aol.com) Date: Wed, 01 Jun 2005 19:03:59 -0400 Subject: No subject Message-ID: <069640E7.507B097C.00869E32@aol.com> Calm down Richard.... it is just your version of life...that works for you..... ......people who make software for computers.....may never ever get that entity outside of their four bedroom walls....you know... .....and often is the case...that....commercial software developers themselves.....are equally as cruel to one-another....when developing in teams....irrispective of which corporation/s.......finally own the copyrights on the software material....itself.... The intellectual property rights on s/w...which incase you did not know Rich.....last for ever.......are where all the LEGAL emphasis is placed.....(copying an idea/patent) Rich if you count the time you'r assigining 'value' to here...in some context's of life...that is a fine thing to do....(you sent a long e-mail...lots of time spent there...well done) in a larger picture Richard ...i don't have the 'time' to explain away...all of my actions....here...(or defend them) It was a gift to the list....except...you don't see it the same... machines work ahead of man...and have done for decades Rich....so.... ofcourse....volunteering a product like a s/w tool demo....for free... can also often mean.....that there was never any market for that product in the first place...(globally) hence the patent/s thing In the future Richard ...the 'values' of life that you describe here are changing.... and peoples values and their 'value' as a person....in life....are changing...but not always reciprocally or in earnest... Today Rich? do you think Billy Gates wanders around the globe in his little camper van (like he started out)....looking for people...who have not got his signed copy of his disk....of windows....? no no Billy Gates....is busy...enough Rich....he decides....things like...'should Msoft give 33 billion pounds as a christmas present to it's share holders?(tax etc).....or not? not 'does it have to give' the cash out?...... ....'should it give the cash out?' as a christmas gift?..... (like a s/w demo......is a gift...) turns out......Msoft did give out this cash..... 33bill$.......last christmas.... 33 billion dollars ...3 dollars.....on each person's share in their portfolio.... www.google.com.....produces serials...on a simple search..... google is worth 5 billion now Rich... .....i have respect for LAW ...do you think google do? .....Rich, how many people do you think it would take...to make a new computer operating system today?....(software)...and how much time and cost?...(don't answer that....look in your toaster....there is one in there....) Rich........you have the audacity........to speak....on behalf of many many many other members of a mailing list (like you have done....via your e-mail)....it's not right to do that Rich....is it? ......no, i have not noticed that many of the list members make computer software to SELL (hobbies usually)...(i am new)....but it does show you about the..... time/versus/value.....thing above....so Ethically Rich, your actions in one e-mail....are far worse than any issue like....software piracy....in life....so Richard...kindly take you opinions...and bury them...somewhere in a dark place...OK?....(sounds like you may have just the right place dude....'look up'....) :-) Ben From revdan at danshafer.com Wed Jun 1 19:04:57 2005 From: revdan at danshafer.com (Dan Shafer) Date: Wed, 1 Jun 2005 16:04:57 -0700 Subject: IDE blowing up a lot In-Reply-To: <429E393D.8070303@sover.net> References: <429E393D.8070303@sover.net> Message-ID: I work on OS X 10.4, Rev 2.5.1, and I haven't seen this problem at all in weeks and weeks. When I did, I think I recall deciding it was something I'd done anyway. But I can certainly see how this would be disconcerting, to say the least. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Dan Shafer, Co-Chair RevConWest '05 June 17-18, 2005, Monterey, California http://www.altuit.com/webs/altuit/RevConWest On Jun 1, 2005, at 3:39 PM, Jon wrote: > Every so often, when I try to click on Files, to do a Save, the IDE > just disappears, and all is lost. Pretty frustrating and anxiety > provoking. So now I'm saving (using the Application Browser, which > does not blow up) all of the time. But whenever I forget, I'm > screwed. > > Anyone else seeing this problem? > > Jon > _______________________________________________ > use-revolution mailing list > use-revolution at lists.runrev.com > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution > > From revdan at danshafer.com Wed Jun 1 19:05:56 2005 From: revdan at danshafer.com (Dan Shafer) Date: Wed, 1 Jun 2005 16:05:56 -0700 Subject: resizeable stacks In-Reply-To: <429E376C.5050404@sover.net> References: <429E3626.40906@sover.net> <429E36F4.4060704@fourthworld.com> <429E376C.5050404@sover.net> Message-ID: <9522DE8B-376C-435D-BE4E-21ECDE7D0442@danshafer.com> It *is* platform-independent *development*. It's just platform *dependent* debugging. :-D ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Dan Shafer, Co-Chair RevConWest '05 June 17-18, 2005, Monterey, California http://www.altuit.com/webs/altuit/RevConWest On Jun 1, 2005, at 3:32 PM, Jon wrote: > I thought this was a platform independent development environment... > > Windoze ... for the time being > > Jon > > > Richard Gaskin wrote: > > >> Jon wrote: >> >> >>> I have the Size and Position tab set so that Resizable is >>> checked, but still the window/stack cannot be resized by the user >>> at run-time. What is the secret? >>> >> >> >> Which platform? >> >> -- >> Richard Gaskin >> Fourth World Media Corporation >> __________________________________________________ >> Rev tools and more: http://www.fourthworld.com/rev >> _______________________________________________ >> use-revolution mailing list >> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution >> >> >> > _______________________________________________ > use-revolution mailing list > use-revolution at lists.runrev.com > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution > > From briany at qldlearning.com Wed Jun 1 19:09:31 2005 From: briany at qldlearning.com (Brian Yennie) Date: Wed, 1 Jun 2005 16:09:31 -0700 Subject: documentation organizational problems In-Reply-To: <429E3A26.4090001@sover.net> References: <429E0B57.408@sover.net> <429E26EE.5090702@hyperactivesw.com> <429E30AC.7030104@sover.net> <429E3A26.4090001@sover.net> Message-ID: <8a930bd15fccb2cadb7269315665544c@qldlearning.com> > And then I tried to do some string manipulations (change the string > <"FRED"> to the string , that is, remove the quotes), and simply > gave up: there is no section on how to manage strings. FWIW: replace quote with empty in tString or replace (quote&"FRED""e) with "FRED" in tString or use replaceText() for RegEx. Depending on your needs. > I know I'm coming from another programming environment, and I don't > expect it to be trivial, but when I can't find any information at all, > I get frustrated. I can't be the first one... No doubt. The docs have made big strides but users new to the language are still struggling, and your comments are exactly what the authors need to continue to improve them. I'm totally biased and only stabbing at the problem as I have many years of experience with xTalk languages- your feedback is what needs to be heard on the docs. The good news is that for almost any possible task, this list is exceptionally responsive. Not a replacement for documentation, but a big plus nevertheless. Also, the list archives can be very helpful. - Brian From revdan at danshafer.com Wed Jun 1 19:10:26 2005 From: revdan at danshafer.com (Dan Shafer) Date: Wed, 1 Jun 2005 16:10:26 -0700 Subject: finding "global" procedures In-Reply-To: <429E373B.6000202@sover.net> References: <429E373B.6000202@sover.net> Message-ID: <10CE497A-D118-4B41-83C7-B44E98BD6DEC@danshafer.com> You raise an important issue. To program effectively in Revolution, you really need to understand the message-passing hierarchy. Nobody has explained it better than Richard Gaskin at: http://www.fourthworld.com/embassy/articles/revolution_message_path.html There is no concept of global handlers. If you want a handler to be accessible to all the message handlers in a given stack file, just put it in the mainstack. If you want it available across multiple stack files, you'll need to create it as its own mainstack and then include it by making it a library with "start using." HTH ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Dan Shafer, Co-Chair RevConWest '05 June 17-18, 2005, Monterey, California http://www.altuit.com/webs/altuit/RevConWest On Jun 1, 2005, at 3:31 PM, Jon wrote: > I want to write some utility routines that can be used by lots of > message handlers. Where do I put those utility routines so that > the event handlers can "see" the utility routines? Do I have to > declare them as Global, or just put them in a particular place? > > Thanks! > > Jon > _______________________________________________ > use-revolution mailing list > use-revolution at lists.runrev.com > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution > > From chipp at chipp.com Wed Jun 1 19:13:59 2005 From: chipp at chipp.com (Chipp Walters) Date: Wed, 01 Jun 2005 18:13:59 -0500 Subject: IDE blowing up a lot In-Reply-To: <429E393D.8070303@sover.net> References: <429E393D.8070303@sover.net> Message-ID: <429E4137.5050705@chipp.com> Hi Jon, This is probably happening because you've entered breakpoints in your stack scripts and have changed either the filename or the name of the stack. To fix this, just remove all the breakpoints of your stack or.. enter in the msg box: set the breakpoints to empty Then you won't have the problems. I get in the habit of always deleting breakpoints. Also, you may want to use my altArchive plugin, as it saves and auto-increments your stacks. You can find it at: http://www.altuit.com/webs/altuit2/altPluginCover/about.htm -Chipp Jon wrote: > Every so often, when I try to click on Files, to do a Save, the IDE just > disappears, and all is lost. Pretty frustrating and anxiety provoking. > So now I'm saving (using the Application Browser, which does not blow > up) all of the time. But whenever I forget, I'm screwed. -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.322 / Virus Database: 267.4.0 - Release Date: 6/1/2005 From alex at tweedly.net Wed Jun 1 19:14:27 2005 From: alex at tweedly.net (Alex Tweedly) Date: Thu, 02 Jun 2005 00:14:27 +0100 Subject: documentation organizational problems In-Reply-To: <429E3A26.4090001@sover.net> References: <429E0B57.408@sover.net> <429E26EE.5090702@hyperactivesw.com> <429E30AC.7030104@sover.net> <429E3A26.4090001@sover.net> Message-ID: <429E4153.90906@tweedly.net> Jon wrote: > Brian: > > Thanks for your comments. My problem was spending hours trying to > write a Flip routine, only to come across it by accident. There was > no clue that it existed from looking at the Image properties or > events. After this accidental encounter, I now feel as if I have to > learn every single detail before proceeding at all, which is daunting > and frustrating. Thus my comment that associating the "methods" with > the objects would have been a good idea. And if that was not possible > architecturally, at least document them somewhere. > > And then I tried to do some string manipulations (change the string > <"FRED"> to the string , that is, remove the quotes), and simply > gave up: there is no section on how to manage strings. > > I know I'm coming from another programming environment, and I don't > expect it to be trivial, but when I can't find any information at all, > I get frustrated. I can't be the first one... > > :) Certainly not the first - see any email to this list from me between about June and August last year (then note the gradual change over to enthusiastic following that time :-) The problem is that string manipulation is so well embedded into Transcript that it can be hard to find - it's not a separate string library like is in in some other places. You could do any of (assuming the string is currently in variable "myVar") 1. replace quote by empty in myVar 2. put empty into newVar repeat for each char c in myVar if c <> quote then put c after newVar end repeat 3. Use reg expressions (too late at night to look up just how to do it and include a code fragment) 4. Lots of other creative (but not so good) ways, that you might be used to from other languages, such as repeat forever put offset(quote, myVar) > 0 into t if t = 0 then exit repeat delete char t of myVar end repeat and surely at least a dozen other ways. In general when looking for string manipulation, you might be looking for language constructs such as - char, word, item (e..g char 3 to -5 of someVar) - offset, itemOffset, etc. - replace - filter (if working with lines - and note that you can change the lineDelimeter) - regular expr (matchText, etc) - etc. When in doubt - ask. This list is pretty busy (and I've spent today adding clutter to it :-), so an extra question or two isn't a problem, and you'll usually get the answer you need quickly; it may still be frustrating, but it's worth it ... -- Alex Tweedly http://www.tweedly.net -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.322 / Virus Database: 267.3.0 - Release Date: 30/05/2005 From ambassador at fourthworld.com Wed Jun 1 19:15:34 2005 From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin) Date: Wed, 01 Jun 2005 16:15:34 -0700 Subject: resizeable stacks In-Reply-To: <429E3DBD.9010104@sover.net> References: <429E3626.40906@sover.net> <429E36F4.4060704@fourthworld.com> <429E376C.5050404@sover.net> <429E3CD1.40609@fourthworld.com> <429E3DBD.9010104@sover.net> Message-ID: <429E4196.6010408@fourthworld.com> >> Jon wrote (re-arranged in standard top-to-bottom reading order): >> >> >> Jon wrote: >> >> >> >>> I have the Size and Position tab set so that Resizable is checked, >> >>> but still the window/stack cannot be resized by the user at >> >>> run-time. What is the secret? >> >> >> >> Check the liveResizing property, and makes sure it's off on Windows. >> There's an engine bug in which that property should have no effect on >> Win (since windows always work that way there), but instead it has a >> nasty side-effect of making them unresizable. >> >> I think there's a Bugzilla report on this.... > > LiveResizing is off. Still won't resize... Are "the decorations" of the stack set to "default"? That one's definitely BZ'd. -- Richard Gaskin Fourth World Media Corporation __________________________________________________ Rev tools and more: http://www.fourthworld.com/rev From chipp at chipp.com Wed Jun 1 19:20:31 2005 From: chipp at chipp.com (Chipp Walters) Date: Wed, 01 Jun 2005 18:20:31 -0500 Subject: resizeable stacks In-Reply-To: <429E3CD1.40609@fourthworld.com> References: <429E3626.40906@sover.net> <429E36F4.4060704@fourthworld.com> <429E376C.5050404@sover.net> <429E3CD1.40609@fourthworld.com> Message-ID: <429E42BF.1040703@chipp.com> WOW! A *SERIOUS* bug!! I created a windows stack, set the live resizing to true, and for certain, could not resize it. So, I set it to false, and it STILL could not resize. I had to change the decorations in order to 'reset' the resizing flag. Good catch Richard, Chipp Richard Gaskin wrote: > Check the liveResizing property, and makes sure it's off on Windows. > There's an engine bug in which that property should have no effect on > Win (since windows always work that way there), but instead it has a > nasty side-effect of making them unresizable. -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.322 / Virus Database: 267.4.0 - Release Date: 6/1/2005 From briany at qldlearning.com Wed Jun 1 19:21:28 2005 From: briany at qldlearning.com (Brian Yennie) Date: Wed, 1 Jun 2005 16:21:28 -0700 Subject: No subject In-Reply-To: <069640E7.507B097C.00869E32@aol.com> References: <069640E7.507B097C.00869E32@aol.com> Message-ID: Ben, We are hardly going to reach the bottom of any debate over ethics, morality, copyright, patents, etc here so let's not try. With that said, I would simply suggest not promoting software piracy on a list populated by people who make their living off of software. It's a bit like walking into a store and offering free lessons on shoplifting. It's not just a matter of your personal take on the shoplifting, it's your respect for the store owner. And if you choose the former, you should hardly expect good service from the latter. - Brian From chipp at chipp.com Wed Jun 1 19:24:34 2005 From: chipp at chipp.com (Chipp Walters) Date: Wed, 01 Jun 2005 18:24:34 -0500 Subject: No subject In-Reply-To: <069640E7.507B097C.00869E32@aol.com> References: <069640E7.507B097C.00869E32@aol.com> Message-ID: <429E43B2.50103@chipp.com> Hmmmmm, I'm betting this guy's using an illegal copy of Rev too. I, for one, won't miss his presence on this list....(even more periods....) ...... -Chipp Vjstbenz at aol.com wrote: > Calm down Richard.... -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.322 / Virus Database: 267.4.0 - Release Date: 6/1/2005 From tominjapan at excite.com Wed Jun 1 19:25:06 2005 From: tominjapan at excite.com (Thomas McCarthy) Date: Wed, 1 Jun 2005 19:25:06 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Windows player crashes after repeat loop Message-ID: <20050601232506.87B51B8ED@xprdmailfe14.nwk.excite.com> Help!!!! (occurs in standalones, development is not affected) I'm exeriencing consistant crashes after using (without Quicktime) the player in windows in a repeat loop. The loop playes Mp3 files. First time through the loop is no problem. the second time I enter the loop, it freezes after the first file.--I've tried setting the filename to empty, moving through the program to see if that clears the memory...nothing works. I'm making a Latin program that plays a dialogue in a fld. Here's the outline: (button) repeat with i = 1 to the num of lines if the enabled of me then exit repeat --the user wants to stop select line i of fld 1 put the soundpath() & i into tfile set the filepath of player 1 to tfile start player 1 wait while the player is playing with messages (actual script is different) end repeat This worked fine when I used MCIsendString and Wave files. When I switched to the player and Mp3 files, it started freezing. As this is the central theme of the program, if it crashes on the second try, it will render my program useless--unless I go back to wave files (huge!) Any help would be most gratefully recieved. tom mccarthy _______________________________________________ Join Excite! - http://www.excite.com The most personalized portal on the Web! From chipp at chipp.com Wed Jun 1 19:30:12 2005 From: chipp at chipp.com (Chipp Walters) Date: Wed, 01 Jun 2005 18:30:12 -0500 Subject: Windows player crashes after repeat loop In-Reply-To: <20050601232506.87B51B8ED@xprdmailfe14.nwk.excite.com> References: <20050601232506.87B51B8ED@xprdmailfe14.nwk.excite.com> Message-ID: <429E4504.50001@chipp.com> Hi Thomas, You might try using QT callbacks instead of 'wait while', just a suggestion. -Chipp Thomas McCarthy wrote: > Help!!!! > (occurs in standalones, development is not affected) > I'm exeriencing consistant crashes after using (without Quicktime) the player in windows in a repeat loop. The loop playes Mp3 files. First time through the loop is no problem. the second time I enter the loop, it freezes after the first file.--I've tried setting the filename to empty, moving through the program to see if that clears the memory...nothing works. -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.322 / Virus Database: 267.4.0 - Release Date: 6/1/2005 From mwieder at ahsoftware.net Wed Jun 1 19:35:01 2005 From: mwieder at ahsoftware.net (Mark Wieder) Date: Wed, 1 Jun 2005 16:35:01 -0700 Subject: resizeable stacks In-Reply-To: <429E3CD1.40609@fourthworld.com> References: <429E3626.40906@sover.net> <429E36F4.4060704@fourthworld.com> <429E376C.5050404@sover.net> <429E3CD1.40609@fourthworld.com> Message-ID: <10127177519.20050601163501@ahsoftware.net> Richard- Wednesday, June 1, 2005, 3:55:13 PM, you wrote: RG> I think there's a Bugzilla report on this.... BZ#2178 Apparently setting the decorations to "default" will get things going again. -- -Mark Wieder mwieder at ahsoftware.net From Vjstbenz at aol.com Wed Jun 1 19:34:24 2005 From: Vjstbenz at aol.com (Vjstbenz at aol.com) Date: Wed, 01 Jun 2005 19:34:24 -0400 Subject: documentation organizational problems Message-ID: <2201986E.40D024C0.00869E32@aol.com> it's like that a lot.... You know a programmer must return to basics....like basic...Beginners all purpose instruction language....basic...that is globally dominant today...Visual Basic.... there are also issues...of why people want to make inroads..in--too--deap...at early stages .... Tough though it is....there will always be a good reason for it... If you find enough like minded people in the world...with geniune interest and liking for IT....the list serves as almost non-replaceable.... It just depends....who gets best results....from sharing knowlegde(base) Ben From davethebrv at crystalpiersw.com Wed Jun 1 19:34:45 2005 From: davethebrv at crystalpiersw.com (Dave Beck) Date: Wed, 1 Jun 2005 16:34:45 -0700 Subject: get URL returning empty string In-Reply-To: <20050601204435.C903B9301C2@mail.runrev.com> Message-ID: <20050601225250.E8A60930209@mail.runrev.com> Hi, I am having a problem with the "get URL" command returning an empty string. The "result" variable is also empty. I know that the web page that I am trying to load is NOT empty. It seems to work properly on some machines but return the empty string on others. Has anybody else experienced this issue? Is there a work around? Thanks in advance, David Beck Crystal Pier Software From mwieder at ahsoftware.net Wed Jun 1 19:38:05 2005 From: mwieder at ahsoftware.net (Mark Wieder) Date: Wed, 1 Jun 2005 16:38:05 -0700 Subject: IDE blowing up a lot In-Reply-To: <429E393D.8070303@sover.net> References: <429E393D.8070303@sover.net> Message-ID: <14727360832.20050601163805@ahsoftware.net> Jon- Wednesday, June 1, 2005, 3:39:57 PM, you wrote: J> Anyone else seeing this problem? I haven't seen it on trying to save, but once in a while the IDE will just quit on its own. Doesn't happen often enough or in a repeatable fashion for me to get a recipe, but it happens. Of course, I don't use the menu for saving, so maybe I'd see it if I did. Does this happen when you press control-S as well? -- -Mark Wieder mwieder at ahsoftware.net From revolution at derbrill.de Wed Jun 1 19:38:53 2005 From: revolution at derbrill.de (Malte Brill) Date: Thu, 2 Jun 2005 01:38:53 +0200 Subject: About Software piracy, Capital Letters and people who I wish banished from this list [was no subject] In-Reply-To: <20050601221710.A9D6E930202@mail.runrev.com> Message-ID: <504873A8-D2F6-11D9-A5E6-0030659A795C@derbrill.de> Hi Ben, i am very angry. If I had seen your posts earlier I would have contacted the list moderators ASAP. I wish that you stop spreading the word of WAREZ sites NOW! If you think that you can do what you want on the Web I?m sure someone will proof you wrong. Your statements are not acceptable to me. What you do is illegal and could harm both my ethical principles and the usability of this list. Don?t you know that internet communities can be shut down for posting such CRAP? Also the way you talk to Richard isn?t acceptable in any form. If you can live with stealing that is your biz. I can?t. I will cc- this to Heather and see what she has to say. I really hope you get banished from this list. If you want to do me a favour: Steal another tool and troll away! You deserve my disrespect! Malte From chipp at chipp.com Wed Jun 1 19:39:57 2005 From: chipp at chipp.com (Chipp Walters) Date: Wed, 01 Jun 2005 18:39:57 -0500 Subject: get URL returning empty string In-Reply-To: <20050601225250.E8A60930209@mail.runrev.com> References: <20050601225250.E8A60930209@mail.runrev.com> Message-ID: <429E474D.1040301@chipp.com> Hi Dave, There may be a couple of reasons for this, either latency in your network or a funny firewall and/or proxy setup. Here's what you can do: repeat 5 times put URL "http:/myURL.com" into tData if tData is empty then next repeat end repeat if tData is empty then answer "Can't get URL data!" else put tData into fld "xyz" end if I've found this sort of repeat structure to help in these situations. Dave Beck wrote: > Hi, > > I am having a problem with the "get URL" command returning an empty string. > The "result" variable is also empty. I know that the web page that I am > trying to load is NOT empty. It seems to work properly on some machines but > return the empty string on others. Has anybody else experienced this issue? > Is there a work around? -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.322 / Virus Database: 267.4.0 - Release Date: 6/1/2005 From Vjstbenz at aol.com Wed Jun 1 19:41:35 2005 From: Vjstbenz at aol.com (Vjstbenz at aol.com) Date: Wed, 01 Jun 2005 19:41:35 -0400 Subject: About Software piracy, Capital Letters and people who I wishbanished from this list [was no subject] Message-ID: <4A6D912F.17A8E824.00869E32@aol.com> Sorry to hear that don't email me again got the message? Ben From ambassador at fourthworld.com Wed Jun 1 19:43:33 2005 From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin) Date: Wed, 01 Jun 2005 16:43:33 -0700 Subject: No subject In-Reply-To: <069640E7.507B097C.00869E32@aol.com> References: <069640E7.507B097C.00869E32@aol.com> Message-ID: <429E4825.3080904@fourthworld.com> Vjstbenz at aol.com wrote: > it is just your version of life...that works for you..... It reflects the collective will of the global community, as expressed in international copyright agreements. If you have a problem take it up with the hundred nations that have signed those agreement. > It was a gift to the list....except...you don't see it the same... I doubt any ethical person who values their labor and that of others sees it that way. Stolen goods aren't much of a gift. If you want to send someone on this list a gift then buy them a license for that commercial product. > In the future Richard ...the 'values' of life that you describe > here are changing.... and peoples values and their 'value' as > a person....in life....are changing...but not always > reciprocally or in earnest... When our culture devolves into a lawless mass of mutual slavery we'll talk. In the meantime we have laws, and they exist for a reason. > Today Rich? do you think Billy Gates wanders around the globe > in his little camper van (like he started out)....looking for > people...who have not got his signed copy of his disk....of > windows....? That's in no way relevant to the discussion. Yes, Microsoft has been convicted of sweeping anti-trust violations by more than two dozen governments worldwide, and has yet to release any public acknowledgement of wrongdoing so we have no way to know they whether they intend to resume such practices once they feel they can get away with them again. But neither myself nor the company you advocated stealing from are employees of Microsoft. Nor does Microsoft's widely-acknowledged unethical behavior validate unethical behavior towards them. You don't raise their bar by lowering yours. > www.google.com.....produces serials...on a simple search..... > google is worth 5 billion now Rich... > > .....i have respect for LAW ...do you think google do? Google does not actively promote crime, and in fact will yank an illegal site from their listings once it's brought to their attention (see ). Look, you had the opportunity to contritely apologize to this community for promoting the theft of their work, but instead you chose to try to justify the illegal activity. I doubt the listmom will ban you from this list, but for myself none of the lists I manage are allowed to be used for the promotion of criminal activity. -- Richard Gaskin Fourth World Media Corporation ___________________________________________________________ Ambassador at FourthWorld.com http://www.FourthWorld.com From Roger.E.Eller at sealedair.com Wed Jun 1 19:32:07 2005 From: Roger.E.Eller at sealedair.com (Roger.E.Eller at sealedair.com) Date: Wed, 1 Jun 2005 19:32:07 -0400 Subject: No subject Message-ID: > We are hardly going to reach the bottom of any debate over ethics, > morality, copyright, patents, etc here so let's not try. In my opinion, this debate should never have even started, but rather been handled off-list (maybe even by the list-mom). However, I must say that I chuckled at the fruitless attempt to redeem the values of piracy on this turf. Roger Eller From ambassador at fourthworld.com Wed Jun 1 19:48:10 2005 From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin) Date: Wed, 01 Jun 2005 16:48:10 -0700 Subject: resizeable stacks In-Reply-To: <429E42BF.1040703@chipp.com> References: <429E3626.40906@sover.net> <429E36F4.4060704@fourthworld.com> <429E376C.5050404@sover.net> <429E3CD1.40609@fourthworld.com> <429E42BF.1040703@chipp.com> Message-ID: <429E493A.10509@fourthworld.com> Chipp Walters wrote: > WOW! A *SERIOUS* bug!! > > I created a windows stack, set the live resizing to true, and for > certain, could not resize it. So, I set it to false, and it STILL could > not resize. I had to change the decorations in order to 'reset' the > resizing flag. > > Good catch Richard, It was a team effort between Ken and me. You can vote for fixing this here: -- Richard Gaskin Fourth World Media Corporation __________________________________________________ Rev tools and more: http://www.fourthworld.com/rev From ambassador at fourthworld.com Wed Jun 1 19:51:39 2005 From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin) Date: Wed, 01 Jun 2005 16:51:39 -0700 Subject: About Software piracy, Capital Letters and people who Iwishbanished from this list [was no subject] In-Reply-To: <4A6D912F.17A8E824.00869E32@aol.com> References: <4A6D912F.17A8E824.00869E32@aol.com> Message-ID: <429E4A0B.3020107@fourthworld.com> Vjstbenz at aol.com wrote: > Sorry to hear that > > don't email me again > > got the message? Malte does not promote crime; instead he promotes its enforcement. To fulfill your request you are welcome (and encouraged) to unsubscribe from this list. -- Richard Gaskin Fourth World Media Corporation __________________________________________________ Rev tools and more: http://www.fourthworld.com/rev From tominjapan at excite.com Wed Jun 1 19:53:50 2005 From: tominjapan at excite.com (Thomas McCarthy) Date: Wed, 1 Jun 2005 19:53:50 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Windows player crashes after repeat loop Message-ID: <20050601235350.56A97B6AD@xprdmailfe14.nwk.excite.com> Problem fixed! I had put the "set the filename of player 1 to empty" outside the repeat loop--thinking to clear it after using. Moving this inside the repeat loop solved the problem repeat play wait empty filename end repeat Yippee! (thanks to Chip Waters for the world's fasted repsonse) tom _______________________________________________ Join Excite! - http://www.excite.com The most personalized portal on the Web! From revolution at derbrill.de Wed Jun 1 19:55:10 2005 From: revolution at derbrill.de (Malte Brill) Date: Thu, 2 Jun 2005 01:55:10 +0200 Subject: About Software piracy, Capital Letters and people who I wishbanished from this list [was no subject] In-Reply-To: <20050601230155.56051930232@mail.runrev.com> Message-ID: <96CE0B82-D2F8-11D9-A5E6-0030659A795C@derbrill.de> >Sorry to hear that >don't email me again >got the message? >Ben Just in case you don?t know. You post everything on this list into the public: http://lists.runrev.com/pipermail/use-revolution/2005-June/date.html See? And I won?t stop posting to the list to do you a favour. If you don?t want mail from me you have to unsubscribe. Malte From markgreenberg at cox.net Wed Jun 1 20:01:41 2005 From: markgreenberg at cox.net (Mark Greenberg) Date: Wed, 1 Jun 2005 17:01:41 -0700 Subject: use-revolution Digest, Vol 21, Issue 6 In-Reply-To: <20050601230153.9E79F930234@mail.runrev.com> Message-ID: <7F9DBF0D-D2F9-11D9-B76E-000A959B61BE@cox.net> Could Ben be one of those who, a week ago or so, got our list's mail by mistake? Some of them were angry, and nobody could be that annoying without trying. This could be his revenge. Just a thought, Mark G On Wednesday, June 1, 2005, at 04:01 PM, Malte wrote: > i am very angry. If I had seen your posts earlier I would have > contacted the list moderators ASAP. From SimPLsol at aol.com Wed Jun 1 20:06:47 2005 From: SimPLsol at aol.com (SimPLsol at aol.com) Date: Wed, 1 Jun 2005 20:06:47 EDT Subject: Piracy Message-ID: <1a2.34c116fd.2fcfa797@aol.com> Ben, Yours is one of the more illogical, incoherent, disrespectful (and perhaps downright stupid) piles of rambling rationalizations I've ever heard. Stealing is fundamentally wrong! Advising others to steal is wrong! Richard was trying to do you a favor, reorienting your moral compass - you should thank him. Paul Looney From jbondy at sover.net Wed Jun 1 20:20:40 2005 From: jbondy at sover.net (Jon) Date: Wed, 01 Jun 2005 20:20:40 -0400 Subject: resizeable stacks In-Reply-To: <429E4196.6010408@fourthworld.com> References: <429E3626.40906@sover.net> <429E36F4.4060704@fourthworld.com> <429E376C.5050404@sover.net> <429E3CD1.40609@fourthworld.com> <429E3DBD.9010104@sover.net> <429E4196.6010408@fourthworld.com> Message-ID: <429E50D8.5030505@sover.net> "decorations" of the stack? Huh? :) Jon Richard Gaskin wrote: >>> Jon wrote (re-arranged in standard top-to-bottom reading order): >>> >>> >> Jon wrote: >>> >> >>> >>> I have the Size and Position tab set so that Resizable is checked, >>> >>> but still the window/stack cannot be resized by the user at >>> >>> run-time. What is the secret? >>> >> >>> >>> Check the liveResizing property, and makes sure it's off on Windows. >>> There's an engine bug in which that property should have no effect >>> on Win (since windows always work that way there), but instead it >>> has a nasty side-effect of making them unresizable. >>> >>> I think there's a Bugzilla report on this.... >> >> > > LiveResizing is off. Still won't resize... > > Are "the decorations" of the stack set to "default"? > > That one's definitely BZ'd. > > > -- > Richard Gaskin > Fourth World Media Corporation > __________________________________________________ > Rev tools and more: http://www.fourthworld.com/rev > _______________________________________________ > use-revolution mailing list > use-revolution at lists.runrev.com > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution > > From jbondy at sover.net Wed Jun 1 20:22:23 2005 From: jbondy at sover.net (Jon) Date: Wed, 01 Jun 2005 20:22:23 -0400 Subject: IDE blowing up a lot In-Reply-To: <14727360832.20050601163805@ahsoftware.net> References: <429E393D.8070303@sover.net> <14727360832.20050601163805@ahsoftware.net> Message-ID: <429E513F.6010201@sover.net> No problems when I use -S! :) Mark Wieder wrote: >Jon- > >Wednesday, June 1, 2005, 3:39:57 PM, you wrote: > >J> Anyone else seeing this problem? > >I haven't seen it on trying to save, but once in a while the IDE will >just quit on its own. Doesn't happen often enough or in a repeatable >fashion for me to get a recipe, but it happens. Of course, I don't use >the menu for saving, so maybe I'd see it if I did. Does this happen >when you press control-S as well? > > > From jhurley at infostations.com Wed Jun 1 20:25:20 2005 From: jhurley at infostations.com (Jim Hurley) Date: Wed, 1 Jun 2005 17:25:20 -0700 Subject: How do I script for the effect of menu item "Reshape Graphic" In-Reply-To: <20050531140151.0D62E9300E0@mail.runrev.com> References: <20050531140151.0D62E9300E0@mail.runrev.com> Message-ID: I have a button with the following handler: on mouseUp set the markerdrawn of grc 1 to true end mouseUp where graphic 1 is a polygon. And a second button with the handler: on mouseUp set the markerdrawn of grc 1 to false end mouseUp These two button have no effect on the polygon until I select the polygon and then call "Reshape Graphic" from the Object menu. From this point on the two buttons then show and hide the markers. How can I script for whatever "Reshape graphic" does? Also, I haven't a clue what those little "Points" are below the "Draw shape at vertices" box in the Inspector. Points like: -3,1 and -2,1 etc. I'll bet they do something interesting. Where do I find these in the docs? Jim From 3mcgrath at adelphia.net Wed Jun 1 20:27:48 2005 From: 3mcgrath at adelphia.net (Thomas McGrath III) Date: Wed, 1 Jun 2005 20:27:48 -0400 Subject: About Software piracy, Capital Letters and people who I wishbanished from this list [was no subject] In-Reply-To: <96CE0B82-D2F8-11D9-A5E6-0030659A795C@derbrill.de> References: <96CE0B82-D2F8-11D9-A5E6-0030659A795C@derbrill.de> Message-ID: <54eb9bcd54b2fb770b7a07d7bc378e20@adelphia.net> Malte, I love your postings! I do want to read your mail. Tom On Jun 1, 2005, at 7:55 PM, Malte Brill wrote: > > See? And I won?t stop posting to the list to do you a favour. If you > don?t want mail from me you have to unsubscribe. > > Malte > _______________________________________________ > use-revolution mailing list > use-revolution at lists.runrev.com > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution > > From jbondy at sover.net Wed Jun 1 20:36:18 2005 From: jbondy at sover.net (Jon) Date: Wed, 01 Jun 2005 20:36:18 -0400 Subject: finding "global" procedures In-Reply-To: <10CE497A-D118-4B41-83C7-B44E98BD6DEC@danshafer.com> References: <429E373B.6000202@sover.net> <10CE497A-D118-4B41-83C7-B44E98BD6DEC@danshafer.com> Message-ID: <429E5482.9020502@sover.net> I'm not sure I want to insert a message handler in the normal message passing hierarchy. I don't want it to ever be called automatically. I want to be able to call a handler manually, from another handler. At the moment, unless the two handlers are in the same "file", I can't call it because I can't "see" it. I just want to be able to declare a handler that can be invoked manually from anywhere in the program. This is a visibility issue. I hope I'm making this clear[er]. :) Jon Dan Shafer wrote: > You raise an important issue. To program effectively in Revolution, > you really need to understand the message-passing hierarchy. Nobody > has explained it better than Richard Gaskin at: > > http://www.fourthworld.com/embassy/articles/revolution_message_path.html > > There is no concept of global handlers. If you want a handler to be > accessible to all the message handlers in a given stack file, just > put it in the mainstack. If you want it available across multiple > stack files, you'll need to create it as its own mainstack and then > include it by making it a library with "start using." > > HTH > > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ > Dan Shafer, Co-Chair > RevConWest '05 > June 17-18, 2005, Monterey, California > http://www.altuit.com/webs/altuit/RevConWest > > On Jun 1, 2005, at 3:31 PM, Jon wrote: > >> I want to write some utility routines that can be used by lots of >> message handlers. Where do I put those utility routines so that the >> event handlers can "see" the utility routines? Do I have to declare >> them as Global, or just put them in a particular place? >> >> Thanks! >> >> Jon >> _______________________________________________ >> use-revolution mailing list >> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution >> >> > > _______________________________________________ > use-revolution mailing list > use-revolution at lists.runrev.com > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution > > From 3mcgrath at adelphia.net Wed Jun 1 20:41:02 2005 From: 3mcgrath at adelphia.net (Thomas McGrath III) Date: Wed, 1 Jun 2005 20:41:02 -0400 Subject: No subject In-Reply-To: <429E4825.3080904@fourthworld.com> References: <069640E7.507B097C.00869E32@aol.com> <429E4825.3080904@fourthworld.com> Message-ID: <3318ec41f22d9fdc1c2d0d730ce203cf@adelphia.net> > Vjstbenz at aol.com wrote: > a lot of really dumb comments. > Richard wrote: > I doubt the listmom will ban you from this list, but for myself none > of the lists I manage are allowed to be used for the promotion of > criminal activity. > I can't believe that this guy is posting illegal software and trying to get people here to 'buy' into the idea. This is like a bad dream. I for one am a bit sick of this guy. Tom From 3mcgrath at adelphia.net Wed Jun 1 20:42:02 2005 From: 3mcgrath at adelphia.net (Thomas McGrath III) Date: Wed, 1 Jun 2005 20:42:02 -0400 Subject: About Software piracy, Capital Letters and people who Iwishbanished from this list [was no subject] In-Reply-To: <429E4A0B.3020107@fourthworld.com> References: <4A6D912F.17A8E824.00869E32@aol.com> <429E4A0B.3020107@fourthworld.com> Message-ID: On Jun 1, 2005, at 7:51 PM, Richard Gaskin wrote: > To fulfill your request you are welcome (and encouraged) to > unsubscribe from this list. > > -- > Richard Gaskin > Fourth World Media Corporation > I also invite you to unsubscribe from the list. From 3mcgrath at adelphia.net Wed Jun 1 20:43:15 2005 From: 3mcgrath at adelphia.net (Thomas McGrath III) Date: Wed, 1 Jun 2005 20:43:15 -0400 Subject: Piracy In-Reply-To: <1a2.34c116fd.2fcfa797@aol.com> References: <1a2.34c116fd.2fcfa797@aol.com> Message-ID: <76f606926276779cb7177dc5d1e59364@adelphia.net> Can I second this. Thank you Paul Tom On Jun 1, 2005, at 8:06 PM, SimPLsol at aol.com wrote: > Ben, > Yours is one of the more illogical, incoherent, disrespectful (and > perhaps > downright stupid) piles of rambling rationalizations I've ever heard. > Stealing > is fundamentally wrong! Advising others to steal is wrong! Richard was > trying > to do you a favor, reorienting your moral compass - you should thank > him. > Paul Looney From mpetrides at earthlink.net Wed Jun 1 20:43:39 2005 From: mpetrides at earthlink.net (Marian Petrides) Date: Wed, 1 Jun 2005 19:43:39 -0500 Subject: No subject In-Reply-To: <3318ec41f22d9fdc1c2d0d730ce203cf@adelphia.net> References: <069640E7.507B097C.00869E32@aol.com> <429E4825.3080904@fourthworld.com> <3318ec41f22d9fdc1c2d0d730ce203cf@adelphia.net> Message-ID: > I can't believe that this guy is posting illegal software and > trying to get people here to 'buy' into the idea. > > This is like a bad dream. > > I for one am a bit sick of this guy. Ayup. Maybe if we ALL tell him how sick we are of his drivel, he'll just go away (or wise up, one)! From ambassador at fourthworld.com Wed Jun 1 20:46:23 2005 From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin) Date: Wed, 01 Jun 2005 17:46:23 -0700 Subject: finding "global" procedures In-Reply-To: <429E5482.9020502@sover.net> References: <429E373B.6000202@sover.net> <10CE497A-D118-4B41-83C7-B44E98BD6DEC@danshafer.com> <429E5482.9020502@sover.net> Message-ID: <429E56DF.5080503@fourthworld.com> Jon wrote: > I'm not sure I want to insert a message handler in the normal message > passing hierarchy. I don't want it to ever be called automatically. I > want to be able to call a handler manually, from another handler. At > the moment, unless the two handlers are in the same "file", I can't call > it because I can't "see" it. I just want to be able to declare a > handler that can be invoked manually from anywhere in the program. This > is a visibility issue. > > I hope I'm making this clear[er]. > > :) > > Jon > > > Dan Shafer wrote: > >> You raise an important issue. To program effectively in Revolution, >> you really need to understand the message-passing hierarchy. Nobody >> has explained it better than Richard Gaskin at: >> >> http://www.fourthworld.com/embassy/articles/revolution_message_path.html See the section there labeled "Changing the Firing Order of Messages": While messages ordinarily travel only through the message path as shown in the figures above, you can invoke handlers in scripts of objects outside of the current message path with the send and call commands: send "mouseUp" to button "Cancel" call "CalculateTotals" of button "Total" The difference between the send and call commands is that the send command changes the context so that object references are treated as relative to the object you send the message to, while the call command does not change the context and continues to treat object references relative to the original object. -- Richard Gaskin Fourth World Media Corporation Developer of WebMerge: Publish any database on any Web site ___________________________________________________________ Ambassador at FourthWorld.com http://www.FourthWorld.com From sarahr at genesearch.com.au Wed Jun 1 20:48:58 2005 From: sarahr at genesearch.com.au (Sarah Reichelt) Date: Thu, 2 Jun 2005 10:48:58 +1000 Subject: Crashing during printing In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <3CE6CCF5-0D0B-4B32-BB7E-1616F1E8FC1E@genesearch.com.au> What happens if you use Preview of Print to PDF instead of actually printing? Does that crash too? If so, then I would guess that it is a memory thing with all those pages being spooled before sending to the printer. I think Chipp's solution of printing in batches would be the best answer. Sarah On 2 Jun 2005, at 7:29 AM, shaosean at unitz.ca wrote: > RunRev 2.5.1 > Mac OS X 10.3.9 > > I've created a stack is used to create multi-page documents > (hundreds and thousands) and > whenever I try to print it makes it up to "Processing Page: 129" > and then crashes. This is > happening in standalones, as well as in the IDE (stopped and running). > > Anyone else having problems printing huge documents? Each card is > one 8.5x11 sheet of paper > (it's all been worked out). > > -Sean > > > _______________________________________________ > use-revolution mailing list > use-revolution at lists.runrev.com > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution > > > > From ambassador at fourthworld.com Wed Jun 1 20:54:40 2005 From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin) Date: Wed, 01 Jun 2005 17:54:40 -0700 Subject: No subject In-Reply-To: References: <069640E7.507B097C.00869E32@aol.com> <429E4825.3080904@fourthworld.com> <3318ec41f22d9fdc1c2d0d730ce203cf@adelphia.net> Message-ID: <429E58D0.3010400@fourthworld.com> Marian Petrides wrote: >> I can't believe that this guy is posting illegal software and trying >> to get people here to 'buy' into the idea. >> >> This is like a bad dream. >> >> I for one am a bit sick of this guy. > > > Ayup. Maybe if we ALL tell him how sick we are of his drivel, he'll > just go away (or wise up, one)! Hopefully wise up. Having another malcontent pirate out in the woods won't make for a happy picnic for anyone, but if he can understand the ethical foundations of our collective dismay he may have a chance of one day becoming a valuable member of the community. I don't mind if he stays, but I feel a basic respect for community standards as expressed in international law is a reasonable minimum to expect for participation. The choice is his. It's never too late to "rejoin the family of nations". :) -- Richard Gaskin Fourth World Media Corporation __________________________________________________ Rev tools and more: http://www.fourthworld.com/rev From dsc at swcp.com Wed Jun 1 20:58:49 2005 From: dsc at swcp.com (Dar Scott) Date: Wed, 1 Jun 2005 18:58:49 -0600 Subject: About Software piracy, Capital Letters and people who I wishbanished from this list [was no subject] In-Reply-To: <96CE0B82-D2F8-11D9-A5E6-0030659A795C@derbrill.de> References: <96CE0B82-D2F8-11D9-A5E6-0030659A795C@derbrill.de> Message-ID: On Jun 1, 2005, at 5:55 PM, Malte Brill wrote: > Just in case you don?t know. You post everything on this list into the > public: It is interesting that you mention that. I was just thinking that those messages sure look like code to me. But I won't mention that on a public list, because it might be just a thinking style and I wouldn't want to hurt somebody's feelings. Dar -- ********************************************** DSC (Dar Scott Consulting & Dar's Lab) http://www.swcp.com/dsc/ Programming and software ********************************************** From sarahr at genesearch.com.au Wed Jun 1 21:04:33 2005 From: sarahr at genesearch.com.au (Sarah Reichelt) Date: Thu, 2 Jun 2005 11:04:33 +1000 Subject: Vjstbenz@aol.com In-Reply-To: <069640E7.507B097C.00869E32@aol.com> References: <069640E7.507B097C.00869E32@aol.com> Message-ID: Dear Heather, Please can you get rid of this person from our normally friendly & helpful mailing list. He is apparently uninterested in programming, has no knowledge of the etiquette used on such a list and is now encouraging illegal behavior. None of the rest of us want to have to read any of his emails and he doesn't want to read ours. So if he doesn't want to unsubscribe, can you save us all a lot of trouble and just get rid of him. Many thanks, Sarah From Roger.E.Eller at sealedair.com Wed Jun 1 21:28:08 2005 From: Roger.E.Eller at sealedair.com (Roger.E.Eller at sealedair.com) Date: Wed, 1 Jun 2005 21:28:08 -0400 Subject: No subject Message-ID: > The choice is his. It's never too late to "rejoin the family of > nations". :) > > -- > Richard Gaskin > Fourth World Media Corporation LOL! It is good to see this topic lighten up a bit. As displaced as Ben's values seem to be, I for one do not support a lynching, even in a digital arena. Even good ole' Richmond every now and then had good input on this list. I do not mean to say that Richmond in any way resembles this Pirate Ben, only that his personality and outlook is "different" than the majority, and diversity is a good thing. The reality is that ignoring stupid stuff (for visualization... a flame) is far better than pouring gasoline on it. Roger Eller From ps1 at softseven.org Wed Jun 1 09:46:58 2005 From: ps1 at softseven.org (Paul Salyers) Date: Wed, 01 Jun 2005 08:46:58 -0500 Subject: Access to MySQL convert Message-ID: <6.1.1.1.2.20050601084437.02cc21f0@softseven.org> Does anyone have or know of a preferable a Rev, program or any kind that will convert Access to MySQL db? Paul Salyers PS1 - Senior Rep. PS1 at softseven.org Http://ps1.SoftSeven.org From Vjstbenz at aol.com Wed Jun 1 21:51:24 2005 From: Vjstbenz at aol.com (Vjstbenz at aol.com) Date: Wed, 01 Jun 2005 21:51:24 -0400 Subject: Access to MySQL convert Message-ID: <215D0264.1EB7467E.00869E32@aol.com> you can get these Paul... converteres for almost MOST types of Db to DB B From see3d at writeme.com Wed Jun 1 22:11:06 2005 From: see3d at writeme.com (Dennis Brown) Date: Wed, 01 Jun 2005 22:11:06 -0400 Subject: Access to MySQL convert In-Reply-To: <215D0264.1EB7467E.00869E32@aol.com> References: <215D0264.1EB7467E.00869E32@aol.com> Message-ID: <88211004-A827-41CE-B124-DC89433C68FD@writeme.com> Ben, How many years experience do you have with email? How many years experience do you have with programming? How many years experience do you have with life? I guess you are no more than 15 based on your emails and have not had enough experience to understand many of life's complexities. If this is so, then LISTEN and LEARN without PREJUDICE from those with many decades of hard won battles with life. Otherwise, you will have to learn your lessons the hard and painful way. People on this list are kind to strangers that truly want to learn, but have no extra time to waste on fools. Make your choice...quickly. Dennis On Jun 1, 2005, Vjstbenz at aol.com wrote: Lots of ignorant stuff From chipp at chipp.com Wed Jun 1 22:20:36 2005 From: chipp at chipp.com (Chipp Walters) Date: Wed, 01 Jun 2005 21:20:36 -0500 Subject: Access to MySQL convert In-Reply-To: <88211004-A827-41CE-B124-DC89433C68FD@writeme.com> References: <215D0264.1EB7467E.00869E32@aol.com> <88211004-A827-41CE-B124-DC89433C68FD@writeme.com> Message-ID: <429E6CF4.4010700@chipp.com> Dennis, Well said :-) Dennis Brown wrote: > Ben, > > People on this list are > kind to strangers that truly want to learn, but have no extra time to > waste on fools. Make your choice...quickly. -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.322 / Virus Database: 267.4.0 - Release Date: 6/1/2005 From jhj at jhj.com Wed Jun 1 22:36:42 2005 From: jhj at jhj.com (Jerry J) Date: Wed, 1 Jun 2005 19:36:42 -0700 Subject: Stop the WAREZ monger In-Reply-To: <20050601183742.9917193018F@mail.runrev.com> References: <20050601183742.9917193018F@mail.runrev.com> Message-ID: <46cbfb006cad39df8e207f84cba4ce76@jhj.com> On Jun 1, 2005, at 11:37 AM, Vjstbenz at aol.com wrote: > may i surgest ShadowUser Pro v2.5 for windows... > > you can get it free...at ...www.phazeddl.com...(10's of thousands of > dollars worth of free software (serials for TRIALS etc) This is a clear violation of AOL's Terms of Service. The best address I can find for reporting this to AOL is mailto:TOSGeneral at aol.com which was not that easy to find. Maybe there is a better one. Enough response to AOL will likely stop this. Take a moment to help. Ben, we like writing software for a living. We fight back when you rip us off. Jerry J From kray at sonsothunder.com Wed Jun 1 22:54:34 2005 From: kray at sonsothunder.com (Ken Ray) Date: Wed, 01 Jun 2005 19:54:34 -0700 Subject: Problems Importing an Image [was Re: Problems Cutting and Pasting Objects] In-Reply-To: Message-ID: > I'm revisiting the problem related to the one described below. I'm > trying to import a JPEG of Mac OS X's striped background to use as a > background for a stack. I need to import it into a group (background), > so that it will appear on every card created, Actually, Greg, you don't. Simply import the JPEG, set the resulting image to an ID that won't conflict (I use 59999) and do: set the backgroundPattern of this stack to Once you do that, all cards and substacks of the stack will have that background pattern (unless you specifically override it on a card-by-card basis). HTH, Ken Ray Sons of Thunder Software Email: kray at sonsothunder.com Web Site: http://www.sonsothunder.com/ From jacque at hyperactivesw.com Wed Jun 1 22:53:36 2005 From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay) Date: Wed, 01 Jun 2005 21:53:36 -0500 Subject: use-revolution Digest, Vol 21, Issue 6 In-Reply-To: <7F9DBF0D-D2F9-11D9-B76E-000A959B61BE@cox.net> References: <7F9DBF0D-D2F9-11D9-B76E-000A959B61BE@cox.net> Message-ID: <429E74B0.4040500@hyperactivesw.com> On 6/1/05 7:01 PM, Mark Greenberg wrote: > Could Ben be one of those who, a week ago or so, got our list's mail > by mistake? Some of them were angry, and nobody could be that annoying > without trying. This could be his revenge. Not revenge, I don't think. Here is what I suspect happened: Ben reminds me a lot of the kids we used to get in the AOL forums. His language and writing style is immature, and he uses non-standard syntax, punctuation, and spelling which may be considered cool in his circles. He has grown up in a generation that sees nothing wrong with file sharing and who lack the same ethical perspective that most of us have. These kids share movies, music, and software and think nothing of it. Thus his comment that the world is changing -- it is all he knows, and commonplace where he hangs out. So I think he's young. He likes to download free stuff, and he downloaded a trial of Revolution after seeing it mentioned somewhere. On the trial download web page, the "Join the mailing list" checkbox is set to join this list by default. He didn't know it. He found himself getting a lot of mail that he didn't understand. Eventually he figured it out and began posting back. He doesn't particularly want to be a programmer, and he doesn't understand Rev, but he is intrigued by the list and getting some attention here. He corresponds with us in the way he is used to in the kiddie chat rooms he frequents, and in his experience his attitude and posting style are not abnormal. We can guide him if he is willing, or shut him out if he isn't. But he's a kid. Probably 12-14. -- Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com From soapdog at mac.com Wed Jun 1 23:11:08 2005 From: soapdog at mac.com (Andre Garzia) Date: Thu, 2 Jun 2005 00:11:08 -0300 Subject: About Piracy but not about that guy... In-Reply-To: <46cbfb006cad39df8e207f84cba4ce76@jhj.com> References: <20050601183742.9917193018F@mail.runrev.com> <46cbfb006cad39df8e207f84cba4ce76@jhj.com> Message-ID: <1b014effb36a8e863c99c3e120411e37@mac.com> On the subject of piracy. Does anyone here remembers the Apple Newton? Each newton had a unique ID that could not be spoofed, so the combination of unique ID and the users own data was a good way to generate serials, for example to register an app you'd open a webpage and enter your email and your newton unique id. This way piaracy was minimal for no one could forge or fake a newton ID... I think computers should have the same thing, would make life easier. the newton is/was the most amazing machine I ever used... andre From SimPLsol at aol.com Wed Jun 1 23:20:16 2005 From: SimPLsol at aol.com (SimPLsol at aol.com) Date: Wed, 1 Jun 2005 23:20:16 EDT Subject: About Piracy (Newton) Message-ID: <19f.34e6ae7b.2fcfd4f0@aol.com> Andre, Still have my Newton. Often think what a wonderful thing a modern Newton could be: faster processor, more memory, lion battery, full color screen (for showing iPhoto pictures), wireless broadband, etc. Of course, I remember HyperCard fondly as well, drive a 20 year old car, wear 30 year old shoes, live in a 95 year old home - newer is not always better. Thanks for the good thoughts about an old friend. Paul Looney From scott at tactilemedia.com Wed Jun 1 23:24:57 2005 From: scott at tactilemedia.com (Scott Rossi) Date: Wed, 01 Jun 2005 20:24:57 -0700 Subject: To Be Young Again Message-ID: DUDA THIS HAS ALWAYS BEN ON3 OF MAH FAVORIET SIETS1!!!1 OMG WTF LOL (Dude, this has always been one of my favorite sites.) http://ssshotaru.homestead.com/files/aolertranslator.html Regards, Scott Rossi Creative Director Tactile Media, Multimedia & Design ----- E: scott at tactilemedia.com W: http://www.tactilemedia.com From troy at rpsystems.net Wed Jun 1 23:27:10 2005 From: troy at rpsystems.net (Troy Rollins) Date: Wed, 1 Jun 2005 23:27:10 -0400 Subject: About Piracy but not about that guy... In-Reply-To: <1b014effb36a8e863c99c3e120411e37@mac.com> References: <20050601183742.9917193018F@mail.runrev.com> <46cbfb006cad39df8e207f84cba4ce76@jhj.com> <1b014effb36a8e863c99c3e120411e37@mac.com> Message-ID: On Jun 1, 2005, at 11:11 PM, Andre Garzia wrote: > the newton is/was the most amazing machine I ever used... Gotta pop in to agree with Andre. Hand held devices are just beginning to catch up with where the Newton was many years ago. Imagine if the Newton were still in development. My Palm Treo650 is *almost* as functional as my MP110. -- Troy RPSystems, Ltd. http://www.rpsystems.net From b.xavier at internet.lu Wed Jun 1 23:29:44 2005 From: b.xavier at internet.lu (MisterX) Date: Thu, 2 Jun 2005 05:29:44 +0200 Subject: IDE blowing up a lot In-Reply-To: <429E4137.5050705@chipp.com> Message-ID: <20050602024651.528529300E0@mail.runrev.com> Hi Jon, If you want an interactive warning and auto-one-click saver check out http://www.monsieurx.com/modules.php?name=News&file=article&sid=180 It lists all your breakpoints in a stack and does a BETTER job of cleaning the breakpoints because after lots of painstacking research, the revmenu's clear breakpoints doesn't clear ALL the breakpoints references. Actualy it's not the breakpoints causing the bugs but a leftover custom property that is not cleaned up... cheers Xavier > -----Original Message----- > From: use-revolution-bounces at lists.runrev.com > [mailto:use-revolution-bounces at lists.runrev.com] On Behalf Of > Chipp Walters > Sent: Thursday, June 02, 2005 01:14 > To: How to use Revolution > Subject: Re: IDE blowing up a lot > > Hi Jon, > > This is probably happening because you've entered breakpoints > in your stack scripts and have changed either the filename or > the name of the stack. > > To fix this, just remove all the breakpoints of your stack or.. > > enter in the msg box: > > set the breakpoints to empty > > Then you won't have the problems. I get in the habit of > always deleting breakpoints. > > Also, you may want to use my altArchive plugin, as it saves > and auto-increments your stacks. You can find it at: > > http://www.altuit.com/webs/altuit2/altPluginCover/about.htm > > -Chipp > > Jon wrote: > > Every so often, when I try to click on Files, to do a Save, the IDE > > just disappears, and all is lost. Pretty frustrating and > anxiety provoking. > > So now I'm saving (using the Application Browser, which > does not blow > > up) all of the time. But whenever I forget, I'm screwed. > > > -- > No virus found in this outgoing message. > Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. > Version: 7.0.322 / Virus Database: 267.4.0 - Release Date: 6/1/2005 > > _______________________________________________ > use-revolution mailing list > use-revolution at lists.runrev.com > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution > From shaosean at unitz.ca Wed Jun 1 23:29:21 2005 From: shaosean at unitz.ca (shaosean at unitz.ca) Date: Wed, 01 Jun 2005 23:29:21 -0400 Subject: Crashing during printing In-Reply-To: <20050602010934.930A1930257@mail.runrev.com> References: <20050602010934.930A1930257@mail.runrev.com> Message-ID: > What happens if you use Preview of Print to PDF instead of actually > printing? Does that crash too? Yup.. Clicking any 3 of the buttons in the print window (Preview, Save PDF, Print) all result in 129 pages being "Processed" and then a crash (Do you want to submit this to Apple).. RunRev 2.0.3 made it to 130 pages ;-) I need to be able to print anywhere from 1 page documents to 1000-plus documents.. It's a niche tool custom written for the company I work for, but if I can't print from RunRev I'll have to look at other environments to program in for this (which is too bad because the other tools are in RunRev and I was hoping to just convert this into a plugin for the main program).. > I think Chipp's solution of printing in batches would be the best Not in this situation.. I did re-write the code to batch the print in 100's but everytime I had the print dialog appear, not too good for something that's supposed to be automated.. -Sean [Mac OS X 10.3.9, 1GB RAM, RunRev 2.0.3/2.5.1, no third party plugins, no libraries loaded] From jacque at hyperactivesw.com Wed Jun 1 23:33:37 2005 From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay) Date: Wed, 01 Jun 2005 22:33:37 -0500 Subject: To Be Young Again In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <429E7E11.9030908@hyperactivesw.com> On 6/1/05 10:24 PM, Scott Rossi wrote: > DUDA THIS HAS ALWAYS BEN ON3 OF MAH FAVORIET SIETS1!!!1 OMG WTF LOL > > (Dude, this has always been one of my favorite sites.) > > http://ssshotaru.homestead.com/files/aolertranslator.html Cool. :) THEIR R 10 KINDS OF PEOPL3 IN TEH WORLD - THOS3 WHO UND3RSTAND BINARY AND THOSE WHO DONT!11!!! WTF LOL -- Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com From rishi at puredata.com.au Wed Jun 1 23:42:17 2005 From: rishi at puredata.com.au (Rishi Viner) Date: Thu, 2 Jun 2005 13:42:17 +1000 Subject: Database query results into Combo Box list Message-ID: <200506021342.17650.rishi@puredata.com.au> Hi All, I'm new to this list and Revolution (although I did a fair bit of Hypercard programming back in '92). I'm using Dreamcard 2.5.1 to build a data entry form to assist with typing lots of info into a database. I've done a lot of reading through the documentation and the archives for this list, but haven't yet found an answer to my problem: I want to populate a combo box (menu) with a list of items returned from a database query. I can run the query OK, but how do I put the results into the combo box menu? When I try using: get revQueryDatabase(...) put it into menu "RdNoMenu" I just get one single number in there, not the 1000 or so records that would have been returned by the select statement. Any help appreciated, including where to look for the answer to this problem. Cheers, -- Rishi Viner PUREDATA Australia www.puredata.com.au From jperryl at ecs.fullerton.edu Wed Jun 1 23:46:50 2005 From: jperryl at ecs.fullerton.edu (Judy Perry) Date: Wed, 1 Jun 2005 20:46:50 -0700 (PDT) Subject: your mail In-Reply-To: <069640E7.507B097C.00869E32@aol.com> Message-ID: What does any of this have to do with (a) Richard's pointing out that you are in essence promoting illegal activity and (b) Revolution in general? Judy On Wed, 1 Jun 2005 Vjstbenz at aol.com wrote: > Calm down Richard.... > > it is just your version of life...that works for you..... > > ......people who make software for computers.....may never ever get that entity outside of their four bedroom walls....you know... > > .....and often is the case...that....commercial software developers themselves.....are equally as cruel to one-another....when developing in teams....irrispective of which corporation/s.......finally own the copyrights on the software material....itself.... > > The intellectual property rights on s/w...which incase you did not know Rich.....last for ever.......are where all the LEGAL emphasis is placed.....(copying an idea/patent) > > Rich if you count the time you'r assigining 'value' to here...in some context's of life...that is a fine thing to do....(you sent a long e-mail...lots of time spent there...well done) > > in a larger picture Richard ...i don't have the 'time' to explain away...all of my actions....here...(or defend them) > It was a gift to the list....except...you don't see it the same... > > machines work ahead of man...and have done for decades Rich....so.... > > ofcourse....volunteering a product like a s/w tool demo....for free... can also often mean.....that there was never any market for that product in the first place...(globally) > > hence the patent/s thing > > In the future Richard ...the 'values' of life that you describe here are changing.... and peoples values and their 'value' as a person....in life....are changing...but not always reciprocally or in earnest... > > Today Rich? do you think Billy Gates wanders around the globe in his little camper van (like he started out)....looking for people...who have not got his signed copy of his disk....of windows....? > > no no > > Billy Gates....is busy...enough Rich....he decides....things like...'should Msoft give 33 billion pounds as a christmas present to it's share holders?(tax etc).....or not? > > not 'does it have to give' the cash out?...... > ....'should it give the cash out?' as a christmas gift?..... > > (like a s/w demo......is a gift...) > > turns out......Msoft did give out this cash..... 33bill$.......last christmas.... > > 33 billion dollars ...3 dollars.....on each person's share in their portfolio.... > > www.google.com.....produces serials...on a simple search..... > google is worth 5 billion now Rich... > > .....i have respect for LAW ...do you think google do? > > .....Rich, how many people do you think it would take...to make a new computer operating system today?....(software)...and how much time and cost?...(don't answer that....look in your toaster....there is one in there....) > > Rich........you have the audacity........to speak....on behalf of many many many other members of a mailing list (like you have done....via your e-mail)....it's not right to do that Rich....is it? > > ......no, i have not noticed that many of the list members make computer software to SELL (hobbies usually)...(i am new)....but it does show you about the..... time/versus/value.....thing above....so > > Ethically Rich, your actions in one e-mail....are far worse than any issue like....software piracy....in life....so > > Richard...kindly take you opinions...and bury them...somewhere in a dark place...OK?....(sounds like you may have just the right place dude....'look up'....) > > :-) > > Ben > _______________________________________________ > use-revolution mailing list > use-revolution at lists.runrev.com > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution > From soapdog at mac.com Wed Jun 1 23:49:56 2005 From: soapdog at mac.com (Andre Garzia) Date: Thu, 2 Jun 2005 00:49:56 -0300 Subject: your mail In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Jun 2, 2005, at 12:46 AM, Judy Perry wrote: > What does any of this have to do with (a) Richard's pointing out that > you > are in essence promoting illegal activity and (b) Revolution in > general? > > Judy > They say that in Microsoft Longhorn 2018 or Mac OS X 10.5 Rampant Lemmur, the mail apps will be so sophisticate that common sense auto-filter will trash this kind of message before it reaches your mail account. ;-) Andre -- Andre Alves Garzia ? 2004 ? BRAZIL http://studio.soapdog.org From jperryl at ecs.fullerton.edu Wed Jun 1 23:50:12 2005 From: jperryl at ecs.fullerton.edu (Judy Perry) Date: Wed, 1 Jun 2005 20:50:12 -0700 (PDT) Subject: use-revolution Digest, Vol 21, Issue 6 In-Reply-To: <7F9DBF0D-D2F9-11D9-B76E-000A959B61BE@cox.net> Message-ID: But that's no justification for his actions. Judy On Wed, 1 Jun 2005, Mark Greenberg wrote: > Could Ben be one of those who, a week ago or so, got our list's mail > by mistake? Some of them were angry, and nobody could be that annoying > without trying. This could be his revenge. From ptrendler at bigpond.com Wed Jun 1 23:55:40 2005 From: ptrendler at bigpond.com (Pat Trendler) Date: Thu, 2 Jun 2005 13:55:40 +1000 Subject: To Be Young Again & not about Newton References: <429E7E11.9030908@hyperactivesw.com> Message-ID: <015801c56727$0f74b760$0100000a@super> I STIL HAEV A POW3RBOK 145B STIL WORKS CLARISWORKS 2 HYPERCARD 231!11!1 OMG WTF LOL NO WEB NO 3MALE 4MB MAMORY 40 MB DISK - JUST A V3RY HEAVY HANDHELD TAHTS AL!!!1 OMG WTF I LOVA IT!!!!!!1 OMG LOL PAT AT PIGBONDCOM!1!11! WTF LOL ----- Original Message ----- From: "J. Landman Gay" To: "How to use Revolution" Sent: Thursday, June 02, 2005 1:33 PM Subject: Re: To Be Young Again > On 6/1/05 10:24 PM, Scott Rossi wrote: > >> DUDA THIS HAS ALWAYS BEN ON3 OF MAH FAVORIET SIETS1!!!1 OMG WTF LOL >> >> (Dude, this has always been one of my favorite sites.) >> >> http://ssshotaru.homestead.com/files/aolertranslator.html > > > Cool. :) > > THEIR R 10 KINDS OF PEOPL3 IN TEH WORLD - THOS3 WHO UND3RSTAND BINARY AND > THOSE WHO DONT!11!!! WTF LOL > > -- > Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com > HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com > _______________________________________________ > use-revolution mailing list > use-revolution at lists.runrev.com > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution > From sarahr at genesearch.com.au Wed Jun 1 23:56:29 2005 From: sarahr at genesearch.com.au (Sarah Reichelt) Date: Thu, 2 Jun 2005 13:56:29 +1000 Subject: Database query results into Combo Box list In-Reply-To: <200506021342.17650.rishi@puredata.com.au> References: <200506021342.17650.rishi@puredata.com.au> Message-ID: <13AC2730-5EDB-471A-8F2A-406AA7E0DDBC@genesearch.com.au> > I want to populate a combo box (menu) with a list of items returned > from a > database query. I can run the query OK, but how do I put the > results into the > combo box menu? When I try using: > > get revQueryDatabase(...) > put it into menu "RdNoMenu" > > I just get one single number in there, not the 1000 or so records > that would > have been returned by the select statement. Hi Rishi, Welcome to the Revolution! revQueryDatabase() returns the ID number of a cursor - a set of records which you can then list, manipulate, edit etc. The easier solution is to use revDataFromQuery() which gives you back the actual record data. Cheers, Sarah From jperryl at ecs.fullerton.edu Wed Jun 1 23:56:39 2005 From: jperryl at ecs.fullerton.edu (Judy Perry) Date: Wed, 1 Jun 2005 20:56:39 -0700 (PDT) Subject: No subject In-Reply-To: Message-ID: I'm not certain you are correct about this. Let's say Rev, the company just ignores Ben's all-but-solicitation for illegal activity. While unlikely because Rev's outside of the US, I'm guessing they could be held legally accountable because they failed to exercise due diligency (or whatever the term is). It's not clear to me that this individual has posted anything of substance. Really, all he's done, is trolling flamebaiting. And an invitation to illegal activity. Illegal activity that theoretically hurts members of this list. I look forward to the door hitting his backside on his way out. Judy On Wed, 1 Jun 2005 Roger.E.Eller at sealedair.com wrote: > The reality is that ignoring > stupid stuff (for visualization... a flame) is far better than pouring > gasoline on it. From chipp at chipp.com Thu Jun 2 00:00:27 2005 From: chipp at chipp.com (Chipp Walters) Date: Wed, 01 Jun 2005 23:00:27 -0500 Subject: Database query results into Combo Box list In-Reply-To: <13AC2730-5EDB-471A-8F2A-406AA7E0DDBC@genesearch.com.au> References: <200506021342.17650.rishi@puredata.com.au> <13AC2730-5EDB-471A-8F2A-406AA7E0DDBC@genesearch.com.au> Message-ID: <429E845B.4000202@chipp.com> Hi Rishi, Welcome! Also, you want to make sure you: put it into button "RdNoMenu" "button" not "menu" then you can: set the label of btn "RdNoMenu" to "Choose..." best, Chipp >> I want to populate a combo box (menu) with a list of items returned >> from a >> database query. I can run the query OK, but how do I put the results >> into the >> combo box menu? When I try using: >> >> get revQueryDatabase(...) >> put it into menu "RdNoMenu" >> >> I just get one single number in there, not the 1000 or so records >> that would >> have been returned by the select statement. From jperryl at ecs.fullerton.edu Thu Jun 2 00:07:47 2005 From: jperryl at ecs.fullerton.edu (Judy Perry) Date: Wed, 1 Jun 2005 21:07:47 -0700 (PDT) Subject: About Piracy but not about that guy... In-Reply-To: <1b014effb36a8e863c99c3e120411e37@mac.com> Message-ID: Funny you should mention the Newton. Foster-child #1 just picked it up and informed me that it needs new batteries (isn't running off AAs just about the coolest thing ever?) Even today, should I take it with me to the post office or to class where there are 'seasoned' CS majors who know everything, the response to the Newton is nearly universal: 'How kewl!!!' For all that it is/was panned, I wonder which of the panners ever actually used one. Judy On Thu, 2 Jun 2005, Andre Garzia wrote: > On the subject of piracy. Does anyone here remembers the Apple Newton? From rishi at puredata.com.au Thu Jun 2 00:09:03 2005 From: rishi at puredata.com.au (Rishi Viner) Date: Thu, 2 Jun 2005 14:09:03 +1000 Subject: Access to MySQL convert In-Reply-To: <6.1.1.1.2.20050601084437.02cc21f0@softseven.org> References: <6.1.1.1.2.20050601084437.02cc21f0@softseven.org> Message-ID: <200506021409.03782.rishi@puredata.com.au> On Wed, 1 Jun 2005 11:46 pm, Paul Salyers wrote: > Does anyone have or know of a preferable a Rev, program or any kind that > will convert Access to MySQL db? In Linux, you can use mdbtools (http://mdbtools.sourceforge.net/) to open mdb files and export their contents to many formats. It claims to export schema and data to SQL for import to MySQL, but I haven't tried it myself. Good luck, hope this helps. Cheers, -- Rishi Viner PUREDATA Australia www.puredata.com.au From SimPLsol at aol.com Thu Jun 2 00:10:44 2005 From: SimPLsol at aol.com (SimPLsol at aol.com) Date: Thu, 2 Jun 2005 00:10:44 EDT Subject: Newton tip Message-ID: Judy, Speaking of batteries, I've been running my Newton on NMHD batteries. They last forever and are rechargeable. Paul Looney From jperryl at ecs.fullerton.edu Thu Jun 2 00:12:00 2005 From: jperryl at ecs.fullerton.edu (Judy Perry) Date: Wed, 1 Jun 2005 21:12:00 -0700 (PDT) Subject: About Piracy (Newton) In-Reply-To: <19f.34e6ae7b.2fcfd4f0@aol.com> Message-ID: It is/was just so waaaay coool... I mean, in the middle of a text-doc (either recognizing your handwriting, which it did really well given that I was a secondary owner with not great handwriting, or using its tap-screen keyboard), you can switch into 'ink' mode (or whatever it was called) and start drawing pictures within the same app. And I never did anything other than a really superficial usage of the Newton! (btw, for anyone interested, the Newton still has a _very_ active mailing list. if interested, send me an email and I will send you back the info if you want). Keep the Green! Judy On Wed, 1 Jun 2005 SimPLsol at aol.com wrote: > Andre, > Still have my Newton. Often think what a wonderful thing a modern Newton > could be: faster processor, more memory, lion battery, full color screen (for > showing iPhoto pictures), wireless broadband, etc. > Of course, I remember HyperCard fondly as well, drive a 20 year old car, wear > 30 year old shoes, live in a 95 year old home - newer is not always better. > Thanks for the good thoughts about an old friend. > Paul Looney From jperryl at ecs.fullerton.edu Thu Jun 2 00:12:48 2005 From: jperryl at ecs.fullerton.edu (Judy Perry) Date: Wed, 1 Jun 2005 21:12:48 -0700 (PDT) Subject: To Be Young Again In-Reply-To: <429E7E11.9030908@hyperactivesw.com> Message-ID: And then there's those who think in octal... NOT! Judy On Wed, 1 Jun 2005, J. Landman Gay wrote: > On 6/1/05 10:24 PM, Scott Rossi wrote: > > > DUDA THIS HAS ALWAYS BEN ON3 OF MAH FAVORIET SIETS1!!!1 OMG WTF LOL > > > > (Dude, this has always been one of my favorite sites.) > > > > http://ssshotaru.homestead.com/files/aolertranslator.html > > > Cool. :) > > THEIR R 10 KINDS OF PEOPL3 IN TEH WORLD - THOS3 WHO UND3RSTAND BINARY > AND THOSE WHO DONT!11!!! WTF LOL > > -- > Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com > HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com > _______________________________________________ > use-revolution mailing list > use-revolution at lists.runrev.com > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution > From jperryl at ecs.fullerton.edu Thu Jun 2 00:14:16 2005 From: jperryl at ecs.fullerton.edu (Judy Perry) Date: Wed, 1 Jun 2005 21:14:16 -0700 (PDT) Subject: your mail In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Andre, You mean that M$ is going to start filtering out their own crapola?? Without a court-order? ;-) Judy On Thu, 2 Jun 2005, Andre Garzia wrote: > They say that in Microsoft Longhorn 2018 or Mac OS X 10.5 Rampant > Lemmur, the mail apps will be so sophisticate that common sense > auto-filter will trash this kind of message before it reaches your mail > account. From jperryl at ecs.fullerton.edu Thu Jun 2 00:17:18 2005 From: jperryl at ecs.fullerton.edu (Judy Perry) Date: Wed, 1 Jun 2005 21:17:18 -0700 (PDT) Subject: To Be Young Again & not about Newton In-Reply-To: <015801c56727$0f74b760$0100000a@super> Message-ID: I'm not as savvy (mostly 'cuz when the PB 145 came out I couldn't afford one), but I just recently gave away my 5300 (the infamous flaming laptop of memory). Still worked. Still had MC v1.0 or similar on it. Talk about the energizer bunny... Judy On Thu, 2 Jun 2005, Pat Trendler wrote: > I STIL HAEV A POW3RBOK 145B STIL WORKS CLARISWORKS 2 HYPERCARD 231!11!1 OMG > WTF LOL NO WEB NO 3MALE 4MB MAMORY 40 MB DISK - JUST A V3RY HEAVY HANDHELD > TAHTS AL!!!1 OMG WTF I LOVA IT!!!!!!1 OMG LOL > > PAT AT PIGBONDCOM!1!11! WTF LOL From jperryl at ecs.fullerton.edu Thu Jun 2 00:21:32 2005 From: jperryl at ecs.fullerton.edu (Judy Perry) Date: Wed, 1 Jun 2005 21:21:32 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Newton tip In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Thanks, Paul. I had to purchase a 2nd gen battery cage for my 2100 because whatever it came with stopped working shortly after I bought it (second-hand on ebay). I only knew about such things because of the wonderful activity of the NewtonTalk list. I'll definitely try your suggestion! (although, what with a pair of 4-yr. old kids, trust me: I simply CANNOT afford to run out of AA batteries!). Judy On Thu, 2 Jun 2005 SimPLsol at aol.com wrote: > Judy, > Speaking of batteries, I've been running my Newton on NMHD batteries. They > last forever and are rechargeable. > Paul Looney From hershrev at realtorsgroup.us Thu Jun 2 00:35:02 2005 From: hershrev at realtorsgroup.us (Hershel Fisch) Date: Thu, 02 Jun 2005 00:35:02 -0400 Subject: Background behavior Message-ID: Hi all, how do I add a back ground behavior group on a stack that has many cards already and I need it should appear on the cards that already exist (if possible) ? Hershel Fisch From xslaugh at gmail.com Thu Jun 2 00:53:58 2005 From: xslaugh at gmail.com (Scott Slaugh) Date: Wed, 1 Jun 2005 22:53:58 -0600 Subject: use-revolution Digest, Vol 21, Issue 6 In-Reply-To: <429E74B0.4040500@hyperactivesw.com> References: <7F9DBF0D-D2F9-11D9-B76E-000A959B61BE@cox.net> <429E74B0.4040500@hyperactivesw.com> Message-ID: Might I point out that the entire generation of which you speak is not entirely made up of those who see nothing wrong with file sharing and lack the same ethical perspective as does your generation. I consider myself to be part of that younger generation, being 19 years old (hence the reason I felt a need to defend my generation). Yet, I do have a problem with getting things for free which were not intended to be free, however much it might seem like they should be free. Although, I must admit, I do often find myself in the minority in my views. Scott Slaugh > Ben reminds me a lot of the kids we used to get in the AOL forums. His > language and writing style is immature, and he uses non-standard syntax, > punctuation, and spelling which may be considered cool in his circles. > He has grown up in a generation that sees nothing wrong with file > sharing and who lack the same ethical perspective that most of us have. > These kids share movies, music, and software and think nothing of it. > Thus his comment that the world is changing -- it is all he knows, and > commonplace where he hangs out. So I think he's young. From ptrendler at bigpond.com Thu Jun 2 01:00:01 2005 From: ptrendler at bigpond.com (Pat Trendler) Date: Thu, 2 Jun 2005 15:00:01 +1000 Subject: Background behavior References: Message-ID: <017a01c5672f$f142fc30$0100000a@super> Use place background. (see place in dictionary) Make the group on the first card you want it to appear. Set its background behaviour to true. Then something like: repeat with x = 2 to 5 go to card x place background "mygroup" onto this card end repeat Any new card made directly after card 5 (in this example) will also have the new group. HTH Pat patrend at bigpond.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "Hershel Fisch" To: "How to use Revolution" Sent: Thursday, June 02, 2005 2:35 PM Subject: Background behavior > Hi all, how do I add a back ground behavior group on a stack that has many > cards already and I need it should appear on the cards that already exist > (if possible) ? > Hershel Fisch > > _______________________________________________ > use-revolution mailing list > use-revolution at lists.runrev.com > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution > From revdan at danshafer.com Thu Jun 2 01:09:28 2005 From: revdan at danshafer.com (Dan Shafer) Date: Wed, 1 Jun 2005 22:09:28 -0700 Subject: About Piracy (Newton) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <0901157B-829F-4745-BAA6-6887025AD933@danshafer.com> I was going to stay out of this one but I can't. Steve Weyer, a good buddy of mine from Apple days (he was an ATG deity) formed a Newton software company when he left the company. He was one of the Newton principals and did a TON of great software for the platform. Not sure where he is or what he's doing these days but I dug up an email address and pinged it. Newton was such a great product that even Apple didn't appreciate what it had. General Magic tried to build on the concept and went bust when AT&T got impatient. Nothing today comes close. (I have a Treo 600 and it's a pale imitation at best.) ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Dan Shafer, Co-Chair RevConWest '05 June 17-18, 2005, Monterey, California http://www.altuit.com/webs/altuit/RevConWest On Jun 1, 2005, at 9:12 PM, Judy Perry wrote: > It is/was just so waaaay coool... > > I mean, in the middle of a text-doc (either recognizing your > handwriting, > which it did really well given that I was a secondary owner with > not great > handwriting, or using its tap-screen keyboard), you can switch into > 'ink' > mode (or whatever it was called) and start drawing pictures within the > same app. > > And I never did anything other than a really superficial usage of the > Newton! > > (btw, for anyone interested, the Newton still has a _very_ active > mailing > list. if interested, send me an email and I will send you back the > info > if you want). > > Keep the Green! > > Judy > > On Wed, 1 Jun 2005 SimPLsol at aol.com wrote: > > >> Andre, >> Still have my Newton. Often think what a wonderful thing a modern >> Newton >> could be: faster processor, more memory, lion battery, full color >> screen (for >> showing iPhoto pictures), wireless broadband, etc. >> Of course, I remember HyperCard fondly as well, drive a 20 year >> old car, wear >> 30 year old shoes, live in a 95 year old home - newer is not >> always better. >> Thanks for the good thoughts about an old friend. >> Paul Looney >> > > _______________________________________________ > use-revolution mailing list > use-revolution at lists.runrev.com > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution > > From ambassador at fourthworld.com Thu Jun 2 01:25:46 2005 From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin) Date: Wed, 01 Jun 2005 22:25:46 -0700 Subject: x-plat dialog layouts Message-ID: <429E985A.8060703@fourthworld.com> When placing the confirmation and cancel controls in dialogs (typically "OK" and "Cancel") the Mac OS and GNOME HIGs put the confirmation button at the lower-right of the window, with the cancel button to the left of it: ---------------------------- | | | | | -------- ------ | | | Cancel | | OK | | | -------- ------ | ---------------------------- However the Windows, KDE, and Java HIGs suggest the opposite, putting the cancel button at the lower-right and the confirmation button to its left: ---------------------------- | | | | | ------ -------- | | | OK | | Cancel | | | ------ -------- | ---------------------------- Humans being a single species, it seems reasonable that there is ultimately one "best" layout, yet both camps seem adamant about this and I can find little hard research to back up either. So I wrote to Tog and a few other heavyweights to get their opinions on this. I haven't yet heard back from the others, but Tog was gracious enough to write back today and basically his opinion is that although the MS approach runs counter to how humans normally scan for information (top-left to bottom-right), he feels that consistency takes precedence over being "right" and recommends following suit when developing on Windows. So here's the Rev question - ---------------------------------------------------------------- I'm taking a poll on the dialog layout issue in preparation for the "Cross-Platform Gotchas" panel I'm participating in with Ken and Jacque at Monterey West; please send your replies to me via private email and I'll submit the results in summary here: When making dialogs for cross-platform applications, I usually: a) Make two different dialogs, one for each platform b) Have my own script that changes the locations of the buttons on preOpenStack c) I make two different "profiles" using Rev's Profile Mgr d) I only use Ask and Answer dialogs where that's handled automatically e) What? There's a difference? Damn! f) Other - please explain: Thanks in advance for your responses. --------------------------------------------------------------- PS: I've updated my Resources page so it's an even more convenient one-stop-shop for HIGs and related info: In addition the the Mac, OS X, Win, XP, KDE, and GNOME HIGs I've added links to IBM's Ease of Use site, the MS Usability Center, Java Look and Feel Guide, OpenStep HIG, IRIX HIG, and updated the link to the Motif Style Guide. -- Richard Gaskin Fourth World Media Corporation __________________________________________________ Rev tools and more: http://www.fourthworld.com/rev From jeff at siphonophore.com Thu Jun 2 01:31:56 2005 From: jeff at siphonophore.com (Jeffrey Reynolds) Date: Thu, 2 Jun 2005 01:31:56 -0400 Subject: About Piracy but not about that guy... In-Reply-To: <20050602032855.7646793028E@mail.runrev.com> References: <20050602032855.7646793028E@mail.runrev.com> Message-ID: <81fcc3958668acd73ae140053839e1a8@siphonophore.com> ahh my old newton, how i still love it. it sits on the desk (not really used much except to turn on once and a while), but i's one of the clear developer ones that is just too kwel for words... Good thought taking it to show some newbie cs majors! I'll have to show my nephew starting grad school in cs this fall! unfortunate how ahead of the times it was! I use to do the old paper passing battleship game in long boring meetings with the newton's ir messaging with the other newton toting guy in the company! everyone thought we were just taking good notes on a cool new machine! at least none of us yelled out 'you sunk my battleship'... its now part of the old collection of the sinclair z80, kpro, basis 108, mac plus... cheers, Jeffrey Reynolds On Jun 1, 2005, at 11:28 PM, use-revolution-request at lists.runrev.com wrote: > On the subject of piracy. Does anyone here remembers the Apple Newton? From revolution at jaedworks.com Thu Jun 2 01:10:10 2005 From: revolution at jaedworks.com (Jeanne A. E. DeVoto) Date: Wed, 1 Jun 2005 22:10:10 -0700 Subject: documentation organizational problems In-Reply-To: <429E0B57.408@sover.net> References: <429E0B57.408@sover.net> Message-ID: At 3:24 PM -0400 6/1/2005, Jon wrote: >Unlike programming languages like Delphi, C, or Java, methods are >not explicitly associated with objects in Revolution. This means >that it is very difficult to use the Rev documentation to find all >of the methods (commands) for images, or for string manipulation. I don't think that's a documentation issue (to the extent that it's an "issue", rather than a difference of approach) so much as a language issue; some commands do operate on specific objects, but most don't. Properties and messages, on the other hand, do apply to specific object types. You can find these lists in the documentation: click the Objects icon, then click Objects in the list, then the object type you're interested in. (For example, to list the messages that can be sent to a field, click the Objects icon, then click Objects, then Field, then Message.) >Am I the only one who finds this to be awkward, time consuming, and >frustrating? Are there any discussions about how to manipulate >strings, with functions similar to (or better than!) traditional >Pascal routines like Extract, SubString, Copy, Insert, Delete, Pos, >etc? You might find "About chunk expressions" enlightening - it's a whole different approach but it becomes very natural very quickly, even for people who are more used to traditional string manipulation. Click the Topics icon in the documentation, then click "Text and Data Processing", then click "Chunk expressions", to read it. -- jeanne a. e. devoto ~ revolution at jaedworks.com http://www.jaedworks.com From revolution at jaedworks.com Thu Jun 2 01:37:13 2005 From: revolution at jaedworks.com (Jeanne A. E. DeVoto) Date: Wed, 1 Jun 2005 22:37:13 -0700 Subject: resizeable stacks In-Reply-To: <429E50D8.5030505@sover.net> References: <429E3626.40906@sover.net> <429E36F4.4060704@fourthworld.com> <429E376C.5050404@sover.net> <429E3CD1.40609@fourthworld.com> <429E3DBD.9010104@sover.net> <429E4196.6010408@fourthworld.com> <429E50D8.5030505@sover.net> Message-ID: At 8:20 PM -0400 6/1/2005, Jon wrote: >"decorations" of the stack? Huh? It's a stack property; you can look it up in the dictionary. (Basically, it specifies whether the stack window has a title bar, close box, etc.) -- jeanne a. e. devoto ~ revolution at jaedworks.com http://www.jaedworks.com From revolution at jaedworks.com Thu Jun 2 01:36:28 2005 From: revolution at jaedworks.com (Jeanne A. E. DeVoto) Date: Wed, 1 Jun 2005 22:36:28 -0700 Subject: How do I script for the effect of menu item "Reshape Graphic" In-Reply-To: References: <20050531140151.0D62E9300E0@mail.runrev.com> Message-ID: At 5:25 PM -0700 6/1/2005, Jim Hurley wrote: >I have a button with the following handler: > >on mouseUp > set the markerdrawn of grc 1 to true >end mouseUp >[...] >These two button have no effect on the polygon until I select the >polygon and then call "Reshape Graphic" from the Object menu. From >this point on the two buttons then show and hide the markers. > >How can I script for whatever "Reshape graphic" does? Check out the See Also list for markerDrawn to see ways to affect the appearance of the boxes. You may need to set the graphic's markerPoints to some reasonable value to make them visible - I don't remember what the default is. The dynamic part of what "Reshape graphic" does (allowing you to drag the marker points around to reshape the polygon) is kind of complicated. Probably the best thing to do is take a look at the script. >Also, I haven't a clue what those little "Points" are below the >"Draw shape at vertices" box in the Inspector. Points like: -3,1 and >-2,1 etc. I'll bet they do something interesting. Where do I find >these in the docs? Those are the markerPoints. They give the corners of the little shape used for the marker. -- jeanne a. e. devoto ~ revolution at jaedworks.com http://www.jaedworks.com From mcdomi at free.fr Thu Jun 2 02:24:18 2005 From: mcdomi at free.fr (Dom) Date: Thu, 2 Jun 2005 08:24:18 +0200 Subject: Newton (Was: Re: About Piracy but not about that guy...) In-Reply-To: <81fcc3958668acd73ae140053839e1a8@siphonophore.com> Message-ID: <1gxirxc.7nngyaf8qbzkM%mcdomi@free.fr> Jeffrey Reynolds wrote: > I use to do the old paper passing battleship game in long boring meetings > with the newton's ir messaging with the other newton toting guy in the > company! everyone thought we were just taking good notes on a cool new > machine! at least none of us yelled out 'you sunk my battleship'... Got this game ;-) Do you know that there is a "Newton Talk" List? This is the NewtonTalk list - http://www.newtontalk.net/ for all inquiries Official Newton FAQ: http://www.chuma.org/newton/faq/ WikiWikiNewt for all kinds of articles: http://tools.unna.org/wikiwikinewt/ Pour les francophones, il y a aussi une liste Newton : mailto:newtonfr-request at ml.free.fr&subject=subscribe -- Revolutionario and "new" MP130 :-) How about porting RR on Newton? From geoff at runrev.com Thu Jun 2 02:42:16 2005 From: geoff at runrev.com (Geoff Canyon) Date: Wed, 1 Jun 2005 23:42:16 -0700 Subject: Yet Another Clock In-Reply-To: <22244126.7C3DBE4F.00869E32@aol.com> References: <22244126.7C3DBE4F.00869E32@aol.com> Message-ID: <34B427ED-7315-484D-A1D5-D330C5770A8C@runrev.com> On Jun 1, 2005, at 7:47 AM, Vjstbenz at aol.com wrote: > cpu usage? > > are you actually saying.....that your simple clock face > program....when you first started out.....was taking 70% of a > windowsPC's cpu's power?..... as it merrilly ticked along? No. I'm saying two things: 1. With Scott's method of drawing the clock by moving three images, it's possible to re-write the clock using move commands: one every minute for the seconds hand, one every hour for the minutes hand, and one every twelve hours for the hours hand. Each command would look something like this: move image "hours" to the points of grc "_clock" in 12*3600 seconds without waiting 2. The problem is that slow move commands eat the CPU. Testing with just the seconds hand image took 70% of the CPU (mac, not pc) Rev is not particularly suited to graphics intensive applications beyond a certain requirement level. gc From mwieder at ahsoftware.net Thu Jun 2 02:46:05 2005 From: mwieder at ahsoftware.net (Mark Wieder) Date: Wed, 1 Jun 2005 23:46:05 -0700 Subject: To Be Young Again In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <17453040808.20050601234605@ahsoftware.net> Scott- Wednesday, June 1, 2005, 8:24:57 PM, you wrote: SR> http://ssshotaru.homestead.com/files/aolertranslator.html TAHT JUST W3NT IN2 MAH BOKMARKS.!1111!1!1!!1!1!!!! -- -Mark Wieder mwieder at ahsoftware.net From eric.chatonet at sosmartsoftware.com Thu Jun 2 03:32:51 2005 From: eric.chatonet at sosmartsoftware.com (Eric Chatonet) Date: Thu, 2 Jun 2005 09:32:51 +0200 Subject: No subject In-Reply-To: <069640E7.507B097C.00869E32@aol.com> References: <069640E7.507B097C.00869E32@aol.com> Message-ID: Hi list, Comptent, cynicism and viciouness are often signs of great suffering and solitude. It's not a reason for this list to accept harmful Ben's prose. Is there......... any MODERATOR at Runrev............ Le 2 juin 05 ? 01:03, Vjstbenz at aol.com a ?crit : > Ethically Rich, your actions in one e-mail....are far worse than > any issue like....software piracy....in life....so > Richard...kindly take you opinions...and bury them...somewhere in a > dark place...OK?....(sounds like you may have just the right place > dude....'look up'....) Best regards from Paris, Eric Chatonet. ---------------------------------------------------------------- So Smart Software For institutions, companies and associations Built-to-order applications: management, multimedia, internet, etc. Windows, Mac OS and Linux... With the French touch Plugins, tutorials and more on our website ---------------------------------------------------------------- Web site http://www.sosmartsoftware.com/ Email eric.chatonet at sosmartsoftware.com/ Phone 33 (0)1 43 31 77 62 Mobile 33 (0)6 20 74 50 86 ---------------------------------------------------------------- From ambassador at fourthworld.com Thu Jun 2 03:36:17 2005 From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin) Date: Thu, 02 Jun 2005 00:36:17 -0700 Subject: No subject In-Reply-To: References: <069640E7.507B097C.00869E32@aol.com> Message-ID: <429EB6F1.8010005@fourthworld.com> Eric Chatonet wrote: > Hi list, > > Comptent, cynicism and viciouness are often signs of great suffering > and solitude. > It's not a reason for this list to accept harmful Ben's prose. > Is there......... any MODERATOR at Runrev............ > > Le 2 juin 05 ? 01:03, Vjstbenz at aol.com a ?crit : > >> Ethically Rich, your actions in one e-mail....are far worse than any >> issue like....software piracy....in life....so >> Richard...kindly take you opinions...and bury them...somewhere in a >> dark place...OK?....(sounds like you may have just the right place >> dude....'look up'....) I took no offense. Obviously he'd found the Easter Egg in WebMerge which shows a picture of my loft, and was referring to the dark concrete recess of my 20' ceiling. Yes, I'm sure that's all it was.... :) -- Richard Gaskin Fourth World Media Corporation ___________________________________________________________ Ambassador at FourthWorld.com http://www.FourthWorld.com From eric.chatonet at sosmartsoftware.com Thu Jun 2 04:26:26 2005 From: eric.chatonet at sosmartsoftware.com (Eric Chatonet) Date: Thu, 2 Jun 2005 10:26:26 +0200 Subject: resizeable stacks In-Reply-To: <429E50D8.5030505@sover.net> References: <429E3626.40906@sover.net> <429E36F4.4060704@fourthworld.com> <429E376C.5050404@sover.net> <429E3CD1.40609@fourthworld.com> <429E3DBD.9010104@sover.net> <429E4196.6010408@fourthworld.com> <429E50D8.5030505@sover.net> Message-ID: Hi Jon, You may be intersested by a tiny How-To stack I wrote about decorations. Just run in the messaeg box: go url "http://www.sosmartsoftware.com/downloads/Managing% 20Titlebars.rev" Best regards from Paris, Eric Chatonet. Le 2 juin 05 ? 02:20, Jon a ?crit : > "decorations" of the stack? Huh? ---------------------------------------------------------------- So Smart Software For institutions, companies and associations Built-to-order applications: management, multimedia, internet, etc. Windows, Mac OS and Linux... With the French touch Plugins, tutorials and more on our website ---------------------------------------------------------------- Web site http://www.sosmartsoftware.com/ Email eric.chatonet at sosmartsoftware.com/ Phone 33 (0)1 43 31 77 62 Mobile 33 (0)6 20 74 50 86 ---------------------------------------------------------------- From heather at runrev.com Thu Jun 2 05:21:59 2005 From: heather at runrev.com (Heather Nagey) Date: Thu, 2 Jun 2005 10:21:59 +0100 Subject: Piracy and list policy In-Reply-To: <20050602032855.7646793028E@mail.runrev.com> References: <20050602032855.7646793028E@mail.runrev.com> Message-ID: Dear All, Sorry for the delayed response, since I got back from holiday I've been a little too busy catching up with support to monitor this list closely. The gentleman responsible for the recent furore is about to be banned as soon as I've finished writing this email. In case anyone remains in any doubt, piracy, warez, and solicitations to break the law will never be tolerated on this list. Being young is not a crime, but actions have consequences and one of those consequences is getting banned from public lists when you make inappropriate statements. I now return you to your regular discussion, which should be about using Revolution, within the law, and for all the many diverse purposes to which it can be put. Warm regards, Heather Listmom and ruffled feather soother From 3mcgrath at adelphia.net Thu Jun 2 07:21:45 2005 From: 3mcgrath at adelphia.net (Thomas McGrath III) Date: Thu, 2 Jun 2005 07:21:45 -0400 Subject: use-revolution Digest, Vol 21, Issue 6 In-Reply-To: References: <7F9DBF0D-D2F9-11D9-B76E-000A959B61BE@cox.net> <429E74B0.4040500@hyperactivesw.com> Message-ID: <7af848c2cc82ac78cc451b5f0a418e66@adelphia.net> Scott, You are so right about this. It was a bit unfair to include an entire generation because of a few people ( well, a lot of people). It is a mind set and not an age set that is the problem. I for one know of quite a few 'younger' people that have very decent values and they would be very upset with the idea of trolling with negative intent and with the idea of trying to get people to participate in stealing software. Thank you Scott, Tom On Jun 2, 2005, at 12:53 AM, Scott Slaugh wrote: > Might I point out that the entire generation of which you speak is not > entirely made up of those who see nothing wrong with file sharing and > lack the same ethical perspective as does your generation. I consider > myself to be part of that younger generation, being 19 years old > (hence the reason I felt a need to defend my generation). Yet, I do > have a problem with getting things for free which were not intended to > be free, however much it might seem like they should be free. > Although, I must admit, I do often find myself in the minority in my > views. > > Scott Slaugh From larsbrehmer at mac.com Thu Jun 2 07:27:08 2005 From: larsbrehmer at mac.com (Lars Brehmer) Date: Thu, 2 Jun 2005 14:27:08 +0300 Subject: Custom props and unicode Message-ID: <75F487C6-63E6-4B42-9761-808CC89DC22C@mac.com> Hi all! I've been looking like crazy in the archives for tips here, but not finding the answer to this. Is it posssible to store unicode text in a custom property? If yes, how? If no, oh well! It's simple really - I want to put unicode text into a customProp and then display it in a field. I've been trying to use useUnicode, uniEncode and uincodeText properties, but if one of these will do the trick, I am simply doing it wrong. Advice or not possible? Cheers, Lars From capellan2000 at yahoo.com Thu Jun 2 07:41:25 2005 From: capellan2000 at yahoo.com (Alejandro Tejada) Date: Thu, 2 Jun 2005 04:41:25 -0700 (PDT) Subject: About Piracy but not about the guy... In-Reply-To: <20050602032855.7646793028E@mail.runrev.com> Message-ID: <20050602114126.45932.qmail@web40525.mail.yahoo.com> on Wed, 01 Jun 2005 J. Landman Gay wrote: > He likes to download free stuff, and he downloaded a > trial of Revolution after seeing it mentioned > somewhere. Ben, here are plenty free downloable software: I hope to find the time to learn Blender, someday. > We can guide him if he is willing, or shut him out > if he isn't. But he's a kid. Probably 12-14. As Richard said, Ben could become a valuable member of this community. He has to find the time to create his own webpage and share his programs and RR learning experience with all us. I had to confess that it's very difficult to understand completely Ben's writing and if you are like me, when you do not understand something, simply tune out and continue to next message. al Visit my site: http://www.geocities.com/capellan2000/ __________________________________ Discover Yahoo! Use Yahoo! to plan a weekend, have fun online and more. Check it out! http://discover.yahoo.com/ From index at kenjikojima.com Thu Jun 2 07:58:41 2005 From: index at kenjikojima.com (Kenji Kojima) Date: Thu, 2 Jun 2005 07:58:41 -0400 Subject: Custom props and unicode In-Reply-To: <75F487C6-63E6-4B42-9761-808CC89DC22C@mac.com> References: <75F487C6-63E6-4B42-9761-808CC89DC22C@mac.com> Message-ID: <5343537E-1A1F-40BB-BAC8-F785AD764A24@kenjikojima.com> Lars, If the language is Japanese, you can convert Unicode to SJIS, and store the text in a custom property. It's not affected by Mac OSX or Windows. uniDecode(field "JIS Input","Japanese") -- Kenji Kojima http://www.kenjikojima.com/ On Jun 2, 2005, at 7:27 AM, Lars Brehmer wrote: > Hi all! > > I've been looking like crazy in the archives for tips here, but not > finding the answer to this. Is it posssible to store unicode text > in a custom property? If yes, how? If no, oh well! It's simple > really - I want to put unicode text into a customProp and then > display it in a field. I've been trying to use useUnicode, > uniEncode and uincodeText properties, but if one of these will do > the trick, I am simply doing it wrong. Advice or not possible? > > Cheers, > > Lars > _______________________________________________ > use-revolution mailing list > use-revolution at lists.runrev.com > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution > > > From jbondy at sover.net Thu Jun 2 07:59:35 2005 From: jbondy at sover.net (Jon) Date: Thu, 02 Jun 2005 07:59:35 -0400 Subject: IDE blowing up a lot In-Reply-To: <20050602024651.528529300E0@mail.runrev.com> References: <20050602024651.528529300E0@mail.runrev.com> Message-ID: <429EF4A7.5050104@sover.net> Xavier: Thanks for the advice. I do not know how to use custom properties, so I'm not sure that is the issue, unless some are creeping in without my explicitly setting them. :) Jon MisterX wrote: >Hi Jon, > >If you want an interactive warning and auto-one-click saver check out > >http://www.monsieurx.com/modules.php?name=News&file=article&sid=180 > >It lists all your breakpoints in a stack and does a BETTER job of cleaning >the breakpoints because after lots of painstacking research, the revmenu's >clear breakpoints doesn't clear ALL the breakpoints references. Actualy it's >not the breakpoints causing the bugs but a leftover custom property that is >not cleaned up... > >cheers >Xavier > > > > >>-----Original Message----- >>From: use-revolution-bounces at lists.runrev.com >>[mailto:use-revolution-bounces at lists.runrev.com] On Behalf Of >>Chipp Walters >>Sent: Thursday, June 02, 2005 01:14 >>To: How to use Revolution >>Subject: Re: IDE blowing up a lot >> >>Hi Jon, >> >>This is probably happening because you've entered breakpoints >>in your stack scripts and have changed either the filename or >>the name of the stack. >> >>To fix this, just remove all the breakpoints of your stack or.. >> >>enter in the msg box: >> >>set the breakpoints to empty >> >>Then you won't have the problems. I get in the habit of >>always deleting breakpoints. >> >>Also, you may want to use my altArchive plugin, as it saves >>and auto-increments your stacks. You can find it at: >> >>http://www.altuit.com/webs/altuit2/altPluginCover/about.htm >> >>-Chipp >> >>Jon wrote: >> >> >>>Every so often, when I try to click on Files, to do a Save, the IDE >>>just disappears, and all is lost. Pretty frustrating and >>> >>> >>anxiety provoking. >> >> >>>So now I'm saving (using the Application Browser, which >>> >>> >>does not blow >> >> >>>up) all of the time. But whenever I forget, I'm screwed. >>> >>> >>-- >>No virus found in this outgoing message. >>Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. >>Version: 7.0.322 / Virus Database: 267.4.0 - Release Date: 6/1/2005 >> >>_______________________________________________ >>use-revolution mailing list >>use-revolution at lists.runrev.com >>http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution >> >> >> > >_______________________________________________ >use-revolution mailing list >use-revolution at lists.runrev.com >http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution > > > > From jbondy at sover.net Thu Jun 2 08:21:33 2005 From: jbondy at sover.net (Jon) Date: Thu, 02 Jun 2005 08:21:33 -0400 Subject: resizeable stacks In-Reply-To: References: <429E3626.40906@sover.net> <429E36F4.4060704@fourthworld.com> <429E376C.5050404@sover.net> <429E3CD1.40609@fourthworld.com> <429E3DBD.9010104@sover.net> <429E4196.6010408@fourthworld.com> <429E50D8.5030505@sover.net> Message-ID: <429EF9CD.3080809@sover.net> Eric: Thanks. Just a hint for all of you who tried to help. In the future: if something is called "controls" in the IDE, why not call it "controls" in your emails. Calling it "decorations" is just plain confusing. Or maybe the IDE needs to change "controls" to "decorations". I'm not stupid, but I'm also not a mind reader... Thanks for the help. :) Jon Eric Chatonet wrote: > Hi Jon, > > You may be intersested by a tiny How-To stack I wrote about decorations. > Just run in the messaeg box: > > go url "http://www.sosmartsoftware.com/downloads/Managing% > 20Titlebars.rev" > > Best regards from Paris, > > Eric Chatonet. > > Le 2 juin 05 ? 02:20, Jon a ?crit : > >> "decorations" of the stack? Huh? > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------- > So Smart Software > > For institutions, companies and associations > Built-to-order applications: management, multimedia, internet, etc. > Windows, Mac OS and Linux... With the French touch > > Plugins, tutorials and more on our website > ---------------------------------------------------------------- > Web site http://www.sosmartsoftware.com/ > Email eric.chatonet at sosmartsoftware.com/ > Phone 33 (0)1 43 31 77 62 > Mobile 33 (0)6 20 74 50 86 > ---------------------------------------------------------------- > > _______________________________________________ > use-revolution mailing list > use-revolution at lists.runrev.com > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution > > From Kresten.Bjerg at psy.ku.dk Thu Jun 2 08:31:40 2005 From: Kresten.Bjerg at psy.ku.dk (Kresten Bjerg) Date: Thu, 02 Jun 2005 14:31:40 +0200 Subject: Find numeric ? Help needed ! Message-ID: I have an apparent inconsistency with at handler using FIND. The searched are 10- digit numbers (daysecond) stored in a specific field "daysecond" in a parallel substack, I search them with a global variable ("dato"), and for some numbers it works OK, but other numbers it fails. I have tried find, find string, find case-sensitive but the same errors - and the same successes ( app. 50%) -persist. All documentation on find refers to text, nowhere do I find reference to digits/ numbers. I know that SORT has a numeric mode, but why is there no FIND numeric ? There most certainly must be a rather simple way to make it 100% sure, that the handler will locate and open the card, where that number is in that field. Maybe something like go stack X, find card where field "daysecond"=dato ? Anybody here having THE SOLUTION ? Kresten Bjerg ________________ Refer please to Oikos Homestation , for further information Mailto:Kresten at psy.ku.dk From eric.chatonet at sosmartsoftware.com Thu Jun 2 08:34:41 2005 From: eric.chatonet at sosmartsoftware.com (Eric Chatonet) Date: Thu, 2 Jun 2005 14:34:41 +0200 Subject: resizeable stacks In-Reply-To: <429EF9CD.3080809@sover.net> References: <429E3626.40906@sover.net> <429E36F4.4060704@fourthworld.com> <429E376C.5050404@sover.net> <429E3CD1.40609@fourthworld.com> <429E3DBD.9010104@sover.net> <429E4196.6010408@fourthworld.com> <429E50D8.5030505@sover.net> <429EF9CD.3080809@sover.net> Message-ID: <451790F3-4A1E-4D96-ACC0-40968D414EFE@sosmartsoftware.com> Hi Jon, In Rev, controls are objects: buttons, fields, scollbars, graphics, images, cards, groups and stacks. I could add video clips, audio clips and EPS objects. All these objects have numerous specific built-in properties and you can add your own ones named custom properties. Have a look at Dennis'stack about built-in properties (username: see3d on Rev Online) As for decorations it's a stack property. Hope this helps to make things clearer :-) Best regards from Paris, Eric Chatonet. Le 2 juin 05 ? 14:21, Jon a ?crit : > Just a hint for all of you who tried to help. In the future: if > something is called "controls" in the IDE, why not call it > "controls" in your emails. Calling it "decorations" is just plain > confusing. Or maybe the IDE needs to change "controls" to > "decorations". I'm not stupid, but I'm also not a mind reader... ---------------------------------------------------------------- So Smart Software For institutions, companies and associations Built-to-order applications: management, multimedia, internet, etc. Windows, Mac OS and Linux... With the French touch Plugins, tutorials and more on our website ---------------------------------------------------------------- Web site http://www.sosmartsoftware.com/ Email eric.chatonet at sosmartsoftware.com/ Phone 33 (0)1 43 31 77 62 Mobile 33 (0)6 20 74 50 86 ---------------------------------------------------------------- From jbondy at sover.net Thu Jun 2 08:35:32 2005 From: jbondy at sover.net (Jon) Date: Thu, 02 Jun 2005 08:35:32 -0400 Subject: IDE hangs up Message-ID: <429EFD14.1060003@sover.net> Here is the contents of the script page for the main stack. When I resize the stack, the IDE hangs up and has to be killed from the Task Manager. -"." and -"." and like that there do nothing. Putting a breakpoint on the call to DoResizeStack does not prevent the hang. I assume something is getting called repeatedly/recursively, but with the debugger failing, I can't figure out what is going on. Any hints? :) Jon on resizeStack DoResizeStack end resizeStack function DoResizeStack set left of "image" to 8 set top of "image" to 20 put width -16 into ww put height - 32 into wh put formattedwidth of "image" into fw put formattedheight of "image" into fh put fh / fw into iRatio put h / w into wRatio if iRatio > wRatio then -- image is taller than space available: need empty space to right of image set height of "image" to h put h / iRatio into w set width of "image" to w else -- need space under image set width of "image" to w put w * iRatio into h set height of "image" to h end if end DoResizeStack From eric.chatonet at sosmartsoftware.com Thu Jun 2 08:43:12 2005 From: eric.chatonet at sosmartsoftware.com (Eric Chatonet) Date: Thu, 2 Jun 2005 14:43:12 +0200 Subject: IDE hangs up In-Reply-To: <429EFD14.1060003@sover.net> References: <429EFD14.1060003@sover.net> Message-ID: <59C6F50B-AF30-4A0E-BD94-DEAD4A10FAC5@sosmartsoftware.com> Hi Jon, Many hints ;-) You call a handler and you write a function :-) You use many properties but don'tell to Rev what is the object: > set left of "image" to 8 set the left of img "Image" to 8 and so on... Take heart! Best regards from Paris, Eric Chatonet. Le 2 juin 05 ? 14:35, Jon a ?crit : > on resizeStack > DoResizeStack > end resizeStack > function DoResizeStack > set left of "image" to 8 > set top of "image" to 20 > put width -16 into ww > put height - 32 into wh > put formattedwidth of "image" into fw > put formattedheight of "image" into fh > put fh / fw into iRatio > put h / w into wRatio > if iRatio > wRatio then > -- image is taller than space available: need empty space to > right of image > set height of "image" to h > put h / iRatio into w > set width of "image" to w > else > -- need space under image > set width of "image" to w > put w * iRatio into h > set height of "image" to h > end if > end DoResizeStack ---------------------------------------------------------------- So Smart Software For institutions, companies and associations Built-to-order applications: management, multimedia, internet, etc. Windows, Mac OS and Linux... With the French touch Plugins, tutorials and more on our website ---------------------------------------------------------------- Web site http://www.sosmartsoftware.com/ Email eric.chatonet at sosmartsoftware.com/ Phone 33 (0)1 43 31 77 62 Mobile 33 (0)6 20 74 50 86 ---------------------------------------------------------------- From nnoydb at excite.com Thu Jun 2 09:06:52 2005 From: nnoydb at excite.com (N) Date: Thu, 2 Jun 2005 09:06:52 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Externals blocking calls. Message-ID: <20050602130652.E8969B6FF@xprdmailfe18.nwk.excite.com> Is the a construct simular to wait with messages for calling externals? Meaning when I call a external function of functions and it is a "blocking call" is there any way the RR message pump can continue processing. Kevin -==-=-=-=-=-=-==-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-==-=-=-=-=-=- Disclaimer: Any resemblance between the above views and those of my employer, my terminal, or the view out my window are purely coincidental. Any resemblance between the above and my own views is non-deterministic. The question of the existence of views in the absence of anyone to hold them is left as an exercise for the reader. The question of the existence of the reader is left as an exercise for the second god coefficient. (A discussion of non-orthogonal, non-integral polytheism is beyond the scope of this article.) _______________________________________________ Join Excite! - http://www.excite.com The most personalized portal on the Web! From klaus at major-k.de Thu Jun 2 09:09:39 2005 From: klaus at major-k.de (Klaus Major) Date: Thu, 2 Jun 2005 15:09:39 +0200 Subject: Custom props and unicode In-Reply-To: <75F487C6-63E6-4B42-9761-808CC89DC22C@mac.com> References: <75F487C6-63E6-4B42-9761-808CC89DC22C@mac.com> Message-ID: <89743820-9B16-4624-A8FE-A1E3D50CD9EE@major-k.de> Hi Lars, > Hi all! > > I've been looking like crazy in the archives for tips here, but not > finding the answer to this. Is it posssible to store unicode text > in a custom property? If yes, how? If no, oh well! It's simple > really - I want to put unicode text into a customProp and then > display it in a field. I've been trying to use useUnicode, > uniEncode and uincodeText properties, but if one of these will do > the trick, I am simply doing it wrong. Advice or not possible? maybe you could use HTMLTEXT? ... set the blablaprop of this stack to the htmltext of fld "yadda" ... And back: ... set the htmltext of fld "yadda" to the blablaprop of this stack ... Works fine and is extremely crossplatform :-) If you only have some unicode textfiles, a repeat loop with one field envolved should do the trick. But i have no idea on how to convert unicode text to "htmltext" without using a field... > Cheers, > > Lars Regards Klaus Major klaus at major-k.de http://www.major-k.de From Roger.E.Eller at sealedair.com Thu Jun 2 09:29:09 2005 From: Roger.E.Eller at sealedair.com (Roger.E.Eller at sealedair.com) Date: Thu, 2 Jun 2005 09:29:09 -0400 Subject: No subject Message-ID: On 6/1/05 at 11:56 PM Judy Perry wrote: > It's not clear to me that this individual has posted anything of > substance. Really, all he's done, is trolling flamebaiting. Well, indirectly or maybe even directly, he has challenged the capability to efficiently program a simple clock in Revolution. That entire thread has been very enlightening and inspiring. Just seeing the code masters meet the challenge was wonderful. Ben (the pirate) even responded with awe and amazement. I'm just 'trying" to see something good in everyone here folks. For the record, I agree that his encouragement of piracy should be dealt with. And that is why the list has a moderator, right? Roger Eller From alex at tweedly.net Thu Jun 2 09:35:55 2005 From: alex at tweedly.net (Alex Tweedly) Date: Thu, 02 Jun 2005 14:35:55 +0100 Subject: x-plat dialog layouts In-Reply-To: <429E985A.8060703@fourthworld.com> References: <429E985A.8060703@fourthworld.com> Message-ID: <429F0B3B.1070303@tweedly.net> Richard Gaskin wrote: > So here's the Rev question - > > ---------------------------------------------------------------- > > I'm taking a poll on the dialog layout issue in preparation for the > "Cross-Platform Gotchas" panel I'm participating in with Ken and > Jacque at Monterey West; please send your replies to me via private > email and I'll submit the results in summary here: > > When making dialogs for cross-platform applications, I usually: > > a) Make two different dialogs, one for each platform > > b) Have my own script that changes the locations of the > buttons on preOpenStack > > c) I make two different "profiles" using Rev's Profile Mgr > > d) I only use Ask and Answer dialogs where that's handled > automatically > > e) What? There's a difference? Damn! > > f) Other - please explain: F. Just do it the Windows way - the other 2% of the world doesn't matter for now, and WILL be assimilated in time. P.S. :-) -- Alex Tweedly http://www.tweedly.net -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.322 / Virus Database: 267.4.1 - Release Date: 02/06/2005 From jhurley at infostations.com Thu Jun 2 09:42:51 2005 From: jhurley at infostations.com (Jim Hurley) Date: Thu, 2 Jun 2005 06:42:51 -0700 Subject: How do I script for the effect of menu item "Reshape Graphic" In-Reply-To: <20050602104002.EA1F89302B8@mail.runrev.com> References: <20050602104002.EA1F89302B8@mail.runrev.com> Message-ID: > >Message: 14 >Date: Wed, 1 Jun 2005 22:36:28 -0700 >From: "Jeanne A. E. DeVoto" >Subject: Re: How do I script for the effect of menu item "Reshape > Graphic" >To: How to use Revolution >Message-ID: >Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" > >At 5:25 PM -0700 6/1/2005, Jim Hurley wrote: >>I have a button with the following handler: >> >>on mouseUp >> set the markerdrawn of grc 1 to true >>end mouseUp >>[...] >>These two button have no effect on the polygon until I select the >>polygon and then call "Reshape Graphic" from the Object menu. From >>this point on the two buttons then show and hide the markers. >> >>How can I script for whatever "Reshape graphic" does? > >Check out the See Also list for markerDrawn to see ways to affect the >appearance of the boxes. You may need to set the graphic's >markerPoints to some reasonable value to make them visible - I don't >remember what the default is. > >The dynamic part of what "Reshape graphic" does (allowing you to drag >the marker points around to reshape the polygon) is kind of >complicated. Probably the best thing to do is take a look at the >script. > >>Also, I haven't a clue what those little "Points" are below the >>"Draw shape at vertices" box in the Inspector. Points like: -3,1 and >>-2,1 etc. I'll bet they do something interesting. Where do I find >>these in the docs? > >Those are the markerPoints. They give the corners of the little shape >used for the marker. >-- >jeanne a. e. devoto ~ revolution at jaedworks.com >http://www.jaedworks.com Thanks Jeanne. That was very helpful. I see what my problem was. I was setting the MarkerDraw property to true, but there were no marker points to be drawn until I had called Reshape Graphic from the Object menu. Apparently, if the marker points are empty, Reshape Graphic constructs a small 33 point closed, filled polygon to simulate a blackened circle. I would like to see how RR does this but I have forgotten how to peek at a RR menu script. Could you refresh my memory? Thanks, Jim From alex at tweedly.net Thu Jun 2 09:49:31 2005 From: alex at tweedly.net (Alex Tweedly) Date: Thu, 02 Jun 2005 14:49:31 +0100 Subject: About Piracy but not about that guy... In-Reply-To: <1b014effb36a8e863c99c3e120411e37@mac.com> References: <20050601183742.9917193018F@mail.runrev.com> <46cbfb006cad39df8e207f84cba4ce76@jhj.com> <1b014effb36a8e863c99c3e120411e37@mac.com> Message-ID: <429F0E6B.7020202@tweedly.net> Andre Garzia wrote: > On the subject of piracy. Does anyone here remembers the Apple Newton? > Each newton had a unique ID that could not be spoofed, so the > combination of unique ID and the users own data was a good way to > generate serials, for example to register an app you'd open a webpage > and enter your email and your newton unique id. This way piaracy was > minimal for no one could forge or fake a newton ID... I think > computers should have the same thing, would make life easier. > You mean, if my machine breaks, and I replace it, I need to re-register all the programs I ever bought ? What about programs from companies that go out of business or just disappear ? I think that's a very user-unfriendly form of registration; once I've bought software, I should be able to run it on any machine I want to - limited to one machine at a time if the software mfr chooses, or to one user id, or ... But should not be limited to one piece of (breakable, losable) hardware without some guaranteed way to switch to a replacement. Hmmm - I guess I would feel better about that kind of scheme if the registration (and re-registration) were used by multiple software manufacturers, and the registration was handled say by a third-party or particularly large company (e.g. Apple) or some escrow provider. -- Alex Tweedly http://www.tweedly.net -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.322 / Virus Database: 267.4.1 - Release Date: 02/06/2005 From larsbrehmer at mac.com Thu Jun 2 09:52:32 2005 From: larsbrehmer at mac.com (Lars Brehmer) Date: Thu, 2 Jun 2005 16:52:32 +0300 Subject: unique ID's? Message-ID: Howdy all, Problem in 2.5.1!!! When I import images into a stack, they get assigned the same ID as images already there! This of course causes all kinds of conflickts, sometimes even crashes when I try to select them or succeed in selecting them and trying to assign an new ID. This NEVER happened in 2.1.2, but is the only thing in 2.5.1 that seems to go wrong. Otherwise, I am loving 2.5.1! Suggestions? I've already tried reinstalling it, doing all the maintenance on my Mac (10.4.1) that I can think of. Cheers, Lars From eric.chatonet at sosmartsoftware.com Thu Jun 2 10:00:45 2005 From: eric.chatonet at sosmartsoftware.com (Eric Chatonet) Date: Thu, 2 Jun 2005 16:00:45 +0200 Subject: unique ID's? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <440A4236-F404-4260-9FAD-C1460278205B@sosmartsoftware.com> Hi Lars, A few days ago, there was a thread about this and I posted a patch in order to reassign IDs to images when you import them with the File > Import as Control menu item. I can't ensure it solves this problem but here, with the same config as you (10.4.1 and build 77), I have no more problems ;-) Just run in the message box: go url "http://www.sosmartsoftware.com/downloads/Import%20Images% 20Patch.rev" Best regards from Paris, Eric Chatonet. Le 2 juin 05 ? 15:52, Lars Brehmer a ?crit : > Problem in 2.5.1!!! When I import images into a stack, they get > assigned the same ID as images already there! This of course > causes all kinds of conflickts, sometimes even crashes when I try > to select them or succeed in selecting them and trying to assign an > new ID. This NEVER happened in 2.1.2, but is the only thing in > 2.5.1 that seems to go wrong. Otherwise, I am loving 2.5.1! > Suggestions? I've already tried reinstalling it, doing all the > maintenance on my Mac (10.4.1) that I can think of. ---------------------------------------------------------------- So Smart Software For institutions, companies and associations Built-to-order applications: management, multimedia, internet, etc. Windows, Mac OS and Linux... With the French touch Plugins, tutorials and more on our website ---------------------------------------------------------------- Web site http://www.sosmartsoftware.com/ Email eric.chatonet at sosmartsoftware.com/ Phone 33 (0)1 43 31 77 62 Mobile 33 (0)6 20 74 50 86 ---------------------------------------------------------------- From ralf at dol.net Thu Jun 2 10:27:00 2005 From: ralf at dol.net (Ralph R. Forehand) Date: Thu, 2 Jun 2005 10:27:00 -0400 Subject: x-plat dialog layouts In-Reply-To: <429F0B3B.1070303@tweedly.net> References: <429E985A.8060703@fourthworld.com> <429F0B3B.1070303@tweedly.net> Message-ID: >Alex Tweedly wrote: > >F. Just do it the Windows way - the other 2% of the world doesn't matter for now, and WILL be assimilated in time. > Alex, Don't think so!! - and then too who would MS have to follow for their ideas? :-)). But each to his own... A dedicated Mac User since '85, Ralph From ralf at dol.net Thu Jun 2 10:38:28 2005 From: ralf at dol.net (Ralph R. Forehand) Date: Thu, 2 Jun 2005 10:38:28 -0400 Subject: Find numeric ? Help needed ! In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Could you provide a sampling (15 or so) of the numbers that work and the numbers that don't work? Ralph ------------------------------------ >I have an apparent inconsistency with at handler using FIND. The >searched are 10- digit numbers (daysecond) stored in a specific field >"daysecond" in a parallel substack, I search them with a global variable >("dato"), and for some numbers it works OK, but other numbers it fails. > >I have tried find, find string, find case-sensitive but the same errors >- and the same successes ( app. 50%) -persist. All documentation on >find refers to text, nowhere do I find reference to digits/ numbers. I >know that SORT has a numeric mode, but why is there no FIND numeric ? >There most certainly must be a rather simple way to make it 100% sure, >that the handler will locate and open the >card, where that number is in that field. Maybe something like go >stack X, find card where field "daysecond"=dato ? > >Anybody here having THE SOLUTION ? > >Kresten Bjerg >________________ >Refer please to Oikos Homestation , for >further information >Mailto:Kresten at psy.ku.dk > > > >_______________________________________________ >use-revolution mailing list >use-revolution at lists.runrev.com >http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution From ralf at dol.net Thu Jun 2 10:42:25 2005 From: ralf at dol.net (Ralph R. Forehand) Date: Thu, 2 Jun 2005 10:42:25 -0400 Subject: Rev. User Groups in the USA? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Are there any Rev. User Groups in the USA and if so, is there a listing available? Thanks in advance, Ralph From rcozens at pon.net Thu Jun 2 10:53:01 2005 From: rcozens at pon.net (Rob Cozens) Date: Thu, 02 Jun 2005 07:53:01 -0700 Subject: Find numeric ? Help needed ! In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <6.2.1.2.1.20050602073907.01e724f8@pop3.pon.net> Hi Kresten, >I have an apparent inconsistency with at handler using FIND. The >searched are 10- digit numbers (daysecond) stored in a specific field >"daysecond" in a parallel substack, I search them with a global variable >("dato"), and for some numbers it works OK, but other numbers it fails. Can you post a sample of the script you are using? There are issues with numbers in general, such as finding a matching string of digits within a larger number (eg: "123" in "41235"); but if all your numbers are 10 digits and you are giving "find" a 10-digit numeric string, that should not be a problem. Rob Cozens "The degree of civilization of a society can be measured by how it treats its prisoners." -- Feodor Mikhailovich Dostoevski 1821-1881 From SimPLsol at aol.com Thu Jun 2 11:18:53 2005 From: SimPLsol at aol.com (SimPLsol at aol.com) Date: Thu, 2 Jun 2005 11:18:53 EDT Subject: About Piracy but not about that guy... Message-ID: <215.205c272.2fd07d5d@aol.com> Alex, What if the computer ID was contained on a removable chip (like the GSM chips in a cell phone)? Then, if the computer broke, or you upgraded to a new computer, you would just move the chip. I know, what if the chip failed? Since it would be just a single, simple chip, failure would be less likely. Vendors would probably offer overnight chip replacement. Paul Looney From mwieder at ahsoftware.net Thu Jun 2 11:23:15 2005 From: mwieder at ahsoftware.net (Mark Wieder) Date: Thu, 2 Jun 2005 08:23:15 -0700 Subject: resizeable stacks In-Reply-To: <429EF9CD.3080809@sover.net> References: <429E3626.40906@sover.net> <429E36F4.4060704@fourthworld.com> <429E376C.5050404@sover.net> <429E3CD1.40609@fourthworld.com> <429E3DBD.9010104@sover.net> <429E4196.6010408@fourthworld.com> <429E50D8.5030505@sover.net> <429EF9CD.3080809@sover.net> Message-ID: <1001692293.20050602082315@ahsoftware.net> Jon- Thursday, June 2, 2005, 5:21:33 AM, you wrote: J> Just a hint for all of you who tried to help. In the future: if J> something is called "controls" in the IDE, why not call it "controls" in J> your emails. Calling it "decorations" is just plain confusing. Or J> maybe the IDE needs to change "controls" to "decorations". I'm not J> stupid, but I'm also not a mind reader... Not a documentation reader, either, apparently. Look up "decorations" "set the decorations of stack myStack to empty" -- -Mark Wieder mwieder at ahsoftware.net From jbondy at sover.net Thu Jun 2 11:26:08 2005 From: jbondy at sover.net (Jon) Date: Thu, 02 Jun 2005 11:26:08 -0400 Subject: resizeable stacks In-Reply-To: <1001692293.20050602082315@ahsoftware.net> References: <429E3626.40906@sover.net> <429E36F4.4060704@fourthworld.com> <429E376C.5050404@sover.net> <429E3CD1.40609@fourthworld.com> <429E3DBD.9010104@sover.net> <429E4196.6010408@fourthworld.com> <429E50D8.5030505@sover.net> <429EF9CD.3080809@sover.net> <1001692293.20050602082315@ahsoftware.net> Message-ID: <429F2510.6010106@sover.net> Mark: You are correct. I saw that in the documentation, but I wanted to change the properties at design time, not at run time. It turns out that this is possible, but the names are so confused that it is not possible to do this without the assistance of the group. I appreciate all of the help that the group has provided. I just wanted to point out a possible improvement in terminology to reduce needless traffic on the group in the future. :) Jon Mark Wieder wrote: >Jon- > >Thursday, June 2, 2005, 5:21:33 AM, you wrote: > >J> Just a hint for all of you who tried to help. In the future: if >J> something is called "controls" in the IDE, why not call it "controls" in >J> your emails. Calling it "decorations" is just plain confusing. Or >J> maybe the IDE needs to change "controls" to "decorations". I'm not >J> stupid, but I'm also not a mind reader... > >Not a documentation reader, either, apparently. Look up "decorations" > >"set the decorations of stack myStack to empty" > > > From mwieder at ahsoftware.net Thu Jun 2 11:29:14 2005 From: mwieder at ahsoftware.net (Mark Wieder) Date: Thu, 2 Jun 2005 08:29:14 -0700 Subject: About Piracy but not about that guy... In-Reply-To: <429F0E6B.7020202@tweedly.net> References: <20050601183742.9917193018F@mail.runrev.com> <46cbfb006cad39df8e207f84cba4ce76@jhj.com> <1b014effb36a8e863c99c3e120411e37@mac.com> <429F0E6B.7020202@tweedly.net> Message-ID: <552051379.20050602082914@ahsoftware.net> Alex- Thursday, June 2, 2005, 6:49:31 AM, you wrote: AT> I think that's a very user-unfriendly form of registration; once I've but that's the way Microsoft handles client licenses... oh, right, I guess that's what you were saying... -- -Mark Wieder mwieder at ahsoftware.net From mwieder at ahsoftware.net Thu Jun 2 11:37:43 2005 From: mwieder at ahsoftware.net (Mark Wieder) Date: Thu, 2 Jun 2005 08:37:43 -0700 Subject: Externals blocking calls. In-Reply-To: <20050602130652.E8969B6FF@xprdmailfe18.nwk.excite.com> References: <20050602130652.E8969B6FF@xprdmailfe18.nwk.excite.com> Message-ID: <1442559900.20050602083743@ahsoftware.net> Kevin- Thursday, June 2, 2005, 6:06:52 AM, you wrote: N> Is the a construct simular to wait with messages for calling N> externals? Meaning when I call a external function of functions and N> it is a "blocking call" is there any way the RR message pump can N> continue processing. Can you use a non-blocking version of the call? The way I've dealt with this is to code an event loop in the external that catches the callback message, then sends an interrupt back to the rev stack. That way the original function called from rev can return immediately. A blocking call is *supposed to* block. You might spawn a new thread for the blocking call so it's off in its own little world. -- -Mark Wieder mwieder at ahsoftware.net From hershrev at realtorsgroup.us Thu Jun 2 11:45:05 2005 From: hershrev at realtorsgroup.us (Hershel Fisch) Date: Thu, 02 Jun 2005 11:45:05 -0400 Subject: Background behavior In-Reply-To: <017a01c5672f$f142fc30$0100000a@super> Message-ID: On 6/2/05 1:00 AM, "Pat Trendler" wrote: > Use place background. (see place in dictionary) Thanks, now the question is, is this the same thing as if it would be done on the first card and then added new cards ? Hershel Fisch > > Make the group on the first card you want it to appear. > Set its background behaviour to true. > Then something like: > > repeat with x = 2 to 5 > go to card x > place background "mygroup" onto this card > end repeat > > Any new card made directly after card 5 (in this example) will also have the > new group. > > HTH > Pat > patrend at bigpond.com > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Hershel Fisch" > To: "How to use Revolution" > Sent: Thursday, June 02, 2005 2:35 PM > Subject: Background behavior > > >> Hi all, how do I add a back ground behavior group on a stack that has many >> cards already and I need it should appear on the cards that already exist >> (if possible) ? >> Hershel Fisch >> >> _______________________________________________ >> use-revolution mailing list >> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution >> > > _______________________________________________ > use-revolution mailing list > use-revolution at lists.runrev.com > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution From mwieder at ahsoftware.net Thu Jun 2 11:47:32 2005 From: mwieder at ahsoftware.net (Mark Wieder) Date: Thu, 2 Jun 2005 08:47:32 -0700 Subject: IDE hangs up In-Reply-To: <59C6F50B-AF30-4A0E-BD94-DEAD4A10FAC5@sosmartsoftware.com> References: <429EFD14.1060003@sover.net> <59C6F50B-AF30-4A0E-BD94-DEAD4A10FAC5@sosmartsoftware.com> Message-ID: <1253148707.20050602084732@ahsoftware.net> Jon- Thursday, June 2, 2005, 5:43:12 AM, you wrote: Yet more clues: You use h and w but never initialize them. If you declare your variables and turn on Variable Checking (or even better, Variable checking by default) then the Script Editor will catch some of these for you before the stack has a chance to crash. -- -Mark Wieder mwieder at ahsoftware.net From ambassador at fourthworld.com Thu Jun 2 12:00:44 2005 From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin) Date: Thu, 02 Jun 2005 09:00:44 -0700 Subject: Rev. User Groups in the USA? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <429F2D2C.9070605@fourthworld.com> Ralph R. Forehand wrote: > Are there any Rev. User Groups in the USA and if so, > is there a listing available? There's a RUG in So Cal that meets now and then: I believe there are enough users in many metro areas (SF bay and NY at least) to warrant more.... -- Richard Gaskin Fourth World Media Corporation __________________________________________________ Rev tools and more: http://www.fourthworld.com/rev From eric.chatonet at sosmartsoftware.com Thu Jun 2 12:13:22 2005 From: eric.chatonet at sosmartsoftware.com (Eric Chatonet) Date: Thu, 2 Jun 2005 18:13:22 +0200 Subject: [ANN] New Plugins and Tutorials from So Smart Software Message-ID: <3371B27B-10F7-4A0F-94F8-F76D88082DF7@sosmartsoftware.com> Here it is a PR which will be released the day after tomorrow but I think this great list had to be the first to know :-) So Smart Software (http://www.sosmartsoftware.com/) today announces the availability of three new plugins for the Revolution family of software development tools (www.runrev.com). These new plugins provide additional features that support smart projects reports, windows management and real time access to sixteen tutorials stacks. The plugins come with help stacks in French and English and are available for Mac OS and Windows XP. "In fewer than 5 months, our tool kit has grown a lot. Now thirteen plugins are available, supporting a wide range of programming necessities for beginners and advanced users. At the same time, we decided that "giving fish" is a good idea but teaching people how to fish is an even better one. That's the reason why we have released sixteen tutorials and this is only the beginning!? said Eric Chatonet of So Smart Software. Tutorials Picker 1.0 - Real time access to the So Smart Software tutorials Tutorials Picker interfaces with the So Smart Software website in order to display all available tutorials directly from the web. By using it Rev users are sure to always have access to the last updates and the new releases. Tutorials Picker provides automatic notification of new releases, shows which tutorials you have already visited, which tutorials have been updated since your last visit, etc. Broadband Internet recommended. English only. The tutorials already available deal with the following topics: How to display and manage Answer Dialogs How to display and manage Ask Dialogs How to build and manage dynamic menus How to manage tabbed buttons How to manage user waiting time How to drag and drop for files and folders How to drag and drop images and different ways to store images How to manage HTML lists on-the-fly How to manage contextual tooltips on-the-fly How to magnify images and only images How to change card dimensions How to install brushed metal appearance on all platforms How to manage "Snap to" scrollbars How to fix stack decorations (titlebar appearance) How to ask for a password How to use table fields Report Picker 1.0 - Programming archiving plugin Report Picker creates smart reports on your projects and keeps them in its library. Contents specifications (scripts, global variables and properties, objects properties, custom properties, etc.) Reports management, powerful search tool, export as text function, etc. Bilingual help stack included. Identical appearance on all platforms. Windows Picker 1.0 - On-screen windows management plugin Windows Picker lets you "dock" any window and call it up on-screen again with a click. Storage in 3 categories : stacks, scripts/property palettes and IDE tools. Specification of colors, possible sound and visual effects. Bilingual help stack included. Identical appearance on all platforms. This announcement brings to thirteen the number of free Revolution and Dreamcard plugins available from So Smart Software. For further details, screenshots and downloads, please visit http:// www.sosmartsoftware.com/ About So Smart Software Located in Paris, France, So Smart Software is an outstanding French team of ergonomists, computer artists and programmers grouped around Eric Chatonet. With over twenty years of experience in Xtalk software and interactive media development, they create specialized built-to- order applications in various fields: management, multimedia, Internet, etc, that combine an incomparable design, exemplary ergonomics, rapid product development and 100% reliability on Windows, MacOS or Linux platforms. More information about So Smart Software can be found by visiting their website at http://www.sosmartsoftware.com/ or contacting: Eric Chatonet So Smart Software 24, Bd de Port-Royal 75005 Paris France Main Phone: (33) 433-317-762 E-mail: eric.chatonet at sosmartsoftware.com From rcozens at pon.net Thu Jun 2 12:12:13 2005 From: rcozens at pon.net (Rob Cozens) Date: Thu, 02 Jun 2005 09:12:13 -0700 Subject: Find numeric ? Help needed ! In-Reply-To: <6.2.1.2.1.20050602073907.01e724f8@pop3.pon.net> References: <6.2.1.2.1.20050602073907.01e724f8@pop3.pon.net> Message-ID: <6.2.1.2.1.20050602090758.01e73d18@pop3.pon.net> >There are issues with numbers in general, such as finding a matching >string of digits within a larger number (eg: "123" in "41235"); but if all >your numbers are 10 digits and you are giving "find" a 10-digit numeric >string, that should not be a problem. ...unless you are not restricting find to the specific field, in which case your search may produce hits from other stack data. Rob Cozens CCW Serendipity Software Company "And I, which was two fooles, do so grow three; Who are a little wise, the best fooles bee." from "The Triple Foole" by John Donne (1572-1631) From jbondy at sover.net Thu Jun 2 12:13:35 2005 From: jbondy at sover.net (Jon) Date: Thu, 02 Jun 2005 12:13:35 -0400 Subject: tables documentation Message-ID: <429F302F.3010502@sover.net> Would someone please point me to the documentation on Tables. I recall a recent message saying that some good documentation had been written, but I cannot locate it. Thank you! Jon From jacque at hyperactivesw.com Thu Jun 2 12:14:12 2005 From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay) Date: Thu, 02 Jun 2005 11:14:12 -0500 Subject: IDE hangs up In-Reply-To: <429EFD14.1060003@sover.net> References: <429EFD14.1060003@sover.net> Message-ID: <429F3054.4090706@hyperactivesw.com> On 6/2/05 7:35 AM, Jon wrote: > Here is the contents of the script page for the main stack. When I > resize the stack, the IDE hangs up and has to be killed from the Task > Manager. -"." and -"." and like that there do nothing. > Putting a breakpoint on the call to DoResizeStack does not prevent the > hang. I assume something is getting called repeatedly/recursively, but > with the debugger failing, I can't figure out what is going on. > > Any hints? There are a lot. ;) I'll comment your script: on resizeStack DoResizeStack -- this is a command handler call, not a function end resizeStack Command handlers are written the way you have done it. Functions generally return a value to the calling handler are are written in this format: put myFunction() into tResult. If there are values to be passed to the function, you add them inside the parentheses: get myFunction(val1,val2) into tResult. Note that functions must be called with a place to put the returned value; i.e., my example uses the varialbe tResult to store the returned value of the function call. Your command syntax is appropriate; you should not be using a function here. So what needs to change is your handler syntax, like this: on DoResizeStack -- using "on" makes it a command handler set left of "image" to 8 -- here you have not told Rev what object to operate on. What is "image"? You can refer to objects by name, ID, or number, but you need to indicate what object should be manipulated. The line should be: set the left of img "imgName" to 8 or you could use: set the left of img 1 to 8 -- OR: set the left of img ID 1005 to 8 Any of these will work, but you do need to let Rev know what object you are setting. The same applies for all lines in the script that use "set": set the top of img "imgName" to 20 put the width of img "imageName" -16 into ww put the height of img "imageName" - 32 into wh put the formattedwidth of img "imageName" into fw put the formattedheight of img "imageName" into fh put fh / fw into iRatio put h / w into wRatio if iRatio > wRatio then -- image is taller than space available: need empty space to right of image set the height of img "imageName" to h put h / iRatio into w set the width of img "imageName" to w else -- need space under image set the width of img "imageName" to w put w * iRatio into h set the height of img "imageName" to h end if end DoResizeStack I have added "the" to all the properties referenced in the script, that is, "the height", "the width". Technically this isn't necessary but I find it to be good form. I am not sure why Rev would hang -- you should have seen a syntax error somewhere I think. But I suspect it didn't know what to do when you called a command handler but wrote a function. Just a guess. -- Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com From rjb at robelko.com Thu Jun 2 12:13:58 2005 From: rjb at robelko.com (Robert Brenstein) Date: Thu, 2 Jun 2005 18:13:58 +0200 Subject: Background behavior In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: >On 6/2/05 1:00 AM, "Pat Trendler" wrote: > >> Use place background. (see place in dictionary) > >Thanks, now the question is, is this the same thing as if it would be done >on the first card and then added new cards ? >Hershel Fisch >> >> Make the group on the first card you want it to appear. >> Set its background behaviour to true. >> Then something like: >> >> repeat with x = 2 to 5 >> go to card x >> place background "mygroup" onto this card >> end repeat >> >> Any new card made directly after card 5 (in this example) will also have the >> new group. >> >> HTH >> Pat > > patrend at bigpond.com It does not really matter on which card you do it, although the above script will work correctly only if done on the first card. To make it work from any card change the get (the number of cards)-1 repeat it times go next cd place ... end repeat go next cd -- to end up where we started You probably also want to set the level of this group on each card, so it is behind other objects. New cards will have this group placed automatically. Robert From dsc at swcp.com Thu Jun 2 12:17:13 2005 From: dsc at swcp.com (Dar Scott) Date: Thu, 2 Jun 2005 10:17:13 -0600 Subject: Custom props and unicode In-Reply-To: <75F487C6-63E6-4B42-9761-808CC89DC22C@mac.com> References: <75F487C6-63E6-4B42-9761-808CC89DC22C@mac.com> Message-ID: <6c44a95aa861dc23e2089dc318c925f4@swcp.com> On Jun 2, 2005, at 5:27 AM, Lars Brehmer wrote: > I've been looking like crazy in the archives for tips here, but not > finding the answer to this. Is it posssible to store unicode text in > a custom property? If yes, how? If no, oh well! It's simple really - > I want to put unicode text into a customProp and then display it in a > field. I've been trying to use useUnicode, uniEncode and uincodeText > properties, but if one of these will do the trick, I am simply doing > it wrong. Advice or not possible? Here is the simplified (one platform) version. To set it do something like this: set the storedText of me to the unicodeText of field "Name" To fetch it do this: set the unicodeText of field "Name" to the storedText of me That will be byte order dependent and will not always work across platforms and OSes. To make that work, change those to these. set the storedText of me to uniDecode( the unicodeText of field "Name", "UTF8") set the unicodeText of field "Name" to uniEncode( (the storedText of me), "UTF8") I didn't test the above, so there might be a goof or something I missed. The UTF8 encoding does not lose any characters and is not dependent on host byte order of the UTF16 you get from unicodeText. Dar -- ********************************************** DSC (Dar Scott Consulting & Dar's Lab) http://www.swcp.com/dsc/ Programming and software ********************************************** From jbondy at sover.net Thu Jun 2 12:18:22 2005 From: jbondy at sover.net (Jon) Date: Thu, 02 Jun 2005 12:18:22 -0400 Subject: IDE hangs up In-Reply-To: <429F3054.4090706@hyperactivesw.com> References: <429EFD14.1060003@sover.net> <429F3054.4090706@hyperactivesw.com> Message-ID: <429F314E.3020308@sover.net> Wow: Thanks for your detailed help. I know it took a lot of time, and I appreciate it. :) Jon J. Landman Gay wrote: > On 6/2/05 7:35 AM, Jon wrote: > >> Here is the contents of the script page for the main stack. When I >> resize the stack, the IDE hangs up and has to be killed from the Task >> Manager. -"." and -"." and like that there do nothing. >> Putting a breakpoint on the call to DoResizeStack does not prevent >> the hang. I assume something is getting called >> repeatedly/recursively, but with the debugger failing, I can't figure >> out what is going on. >> >> Any hints? > > > There are a lot. ;) I'll comment your script: > > > on resizeStack > DoResizeStack -- this is a command handler call, not a function > end resizeStack > > Command handlers are written the way you have done it. Functions > generally return a value to the calling handler are are written in > this format: put myFunction() into tResult. If there are values to be > passed to the function, you add them inside the parentheses: get > myFunction(val1,val2) into tResult. Note that functions must be called > with a place to put the returned value; i.e., my example uses the > varialbe tResult to store the returned value of the function call. > > Your command syntax is appropriate; you should not be using a function > here. So what needs to change is your handler syntax, like this: > > on DoResizeStack -- using "on" makes it a command handler > set left of "image" to 8 > -- here you have not told Rev what object to operate on. What is > "image"? You can refer to objects by name, ID, or number, but you need > to indicate what object should be manipulated. The line should be: > > set the left of img "imgName" to 8 > > or you could use: > > set the left of img 1 to 8 -- OR: > set the left of img ID 1005 to 8 > > Any of these will work, but you do need to let Rev know what object > you are setting. > > The same applies for all lines in the script that use "set": > set the top of img "imgName" to 20 > put the width of img "imageName" -16 into ww > put the height of img "imageName" - 32 into wh > put the formattedwidth of img "imageName" into fw > put the formattedheight of img "imageName" into fh > put fh / fw into iRatio > put h / w into wRatio > if iRatio > wRatio then > -- image is taller than space available: need empty space to right of > image > set the height of img "imageName" to h > put h / iRatio into w > set the width of img "imageName" to w > else > -- need space under image > set the width of img "imageName" to w > put w * iRatio into h > set the height of img "imageName" to h > end if > end DoResizeStack > > I have added "the" to all the properties referenced in the script, > that is, "the height", "the width". Technically this isn't necessary > but I find it to be good form. > > I am not sure why Rev would hang -- you should have seen a syntax > error somewhere I think. But I suspect it didn't know what to do when > you called a command handler but wrote a function. Just a guess. > From emilio at ualberta.ca Thu Jun 2 12:18:31 2005 From: emilio at ualberta.ca (Emilio Gagliardi) Date: Thu, 2 Jun 2005 10:18:31 -0600 Subject: creating drag-and-drop Message-ID: <60444B5B-C3B6-41AF-848A-4285091EA21F@ualberta.ca> Thank you very much for your code example! It looks like exactly what i need. Cheers, Emilio From ralf at dol.net Thu Jun 2 12:22:51 2005 From: ralf at dol.net (Ralph R. Forehand) Date: Thu, 2 Jun 2005 12:22:51 -0400 Subject: Rev. User Groups in the USA? In-Reply-To: <429F2D2C.9070605@fourthworld.com> References: <429F2D2C.9070605@fourthworld.com> Message-ID: Thanks Richard - I'll keep an eye on the RUGSoCal. I live mid-way between Philly and Baltimore and would like to hear from any Rev. enthusiasts in the area - with an eye to possibly forming a RUG in this area? Also I'd like to know of any other RUGs (contacts and/or URLs)? I'd be willing to set up a RUG focal point web page on my ISP. There's a huge potential in a RUG Internet Presence - if we can develop it! Thanks Again and TAKE CARE, Ralph ---------------------------- >Ralph R. Forehand wrote: > > Are there any Rev. User Groups in the USA and if so, > > is there a listing available? > >There's a RUG in So Cal that meets now and then: > > >I believe there are enough users in many metro areas (SF bay and NY at least) to warrant more.... > >-- > Richard Gaskin > Fourth World Media Corporation From jbondy at sover.net Thu Jun 2 12:20:41 2005 From: jbondy at sover.net (Jon) Date: Thu, 02 Jun 2005 12:20:41 -0400 Subject: text "databases" in Rev Message-ID: <429F31D9.2020606@sover.net> I often use INI files in Delphi as a poor man's database in Windows. If I want to remember a small number of configuration parameters, what is the best way to store them? I do NOT want them to be part of the stack: I want them to be part of a separate named data object, so I can load a set, modify it, store it, and then load a different set. Thanks! Jon From jacque at hyperactivesw.com Thu Jun 2 12:26:20 2005 From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay) Date: Thu, 02 Jun 2005 11:26:20 -0500 Subject: use-revolution Digest, Vol 21, Issue 6 In-Reply-To: References: <7F9DBF0D-D2F9-11D9-B76E-000A959B61BE@cox.net> <429E74B0.4040500@hyperactivesw.com> Message-ID: <429F332C.40603@hyperactivesw.com> On 6/1/05 11:53 PM, Scott Slaugh wrote: > Might I point out that the entire generation of which you speak is not > entirely made up of those who see nothing wrong with file sharing and > lack the same ethical perspective as does your generation. Apologies -- I didn't mean to imply that the whole group was bad. You are clearly one of the good guys, and I know there are others. I hope I am never guilty of sterotyping an entire group. I only meant to point out that file sharing is largely seen these days as a much more acceptable behavior than ever before, and younger people have not grown up in a time when it was as roundly condemned as it was in the past. Even those who are solidly against piracy (including people of all generations) have probably swiped a music file or two without a second thought. In this sense, I agree that times are changing. I am not saying piracy is right (I am strongly against it,) only that public opinion is not as harsh as it may have been in the past. And the pre-teeners have never known values that were any different. They are too young. Out of wedlock pregnancy used to be so condemned that girls were whisked away to live with mythical "aunts" out of town and hidden behind a veil of secrecy. Now it is not only accepted, but commonplace. Times do change. Doesn't make it necessarily right, but public opinion is never static. I do congratulate you for being honest -- it gives me hope. -- Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com From jbondy at sover.net Thu Jun 2 12:27:29 2005 From: jbondy at sover.net (Jon) Date: Thu, 02 Jun 2005 12:27:29 -0400 Subject: player blinking all over the place Message-ID: <429F3371.8040107@sover.net> I put a Player on a main stack. I then put a few tables and a button. Often when I switch back to the stack, in design mode, the player starts flickering like mad, and all of Revolution stops responding for a while. If I switch to another task and back, the Player settles down. Any clues as to what is going on, and how I can make the Player settle down? :) Jon From dsc at swcp.com Thu Jun 2 12:28:44 2005 From: dsc at swcp.com (Dar Scott) Date: Thu, 2 Jun 2005 10:28:44 -0600 Subject: Externals blocking calls. In-Reply-To: <20050602130652.E8969B6FF@xprdmailfe18.nwk.excite.com> References: <20050602130652.E8969B6FF@xprdmailfe18.nwk.excite.com> Message-ID: <397fec02742be1a7ad2becb495507748@swcp.com> On Jun 2, 2005, at 7:06 AM, N wrote: > Is the a construct simular to wait with messages for calling > externals? Meaning when I call a external function of functions and it > is a "blocking call" is there any way the RR message pump can continue > processing. I've never done it, but you might be able to use one of the callbacks to essentially wait for messages. I don't know if that would do what you want. Or you can break up your problem into smaller pieces and make several calls. If the external is making a system blocking call that is waiting for I/O then those two might not work. There you need to do one of two things. You can find a nonblocking way to do what you want. This is usually doable in Windows. Or you can create a thread to execute the blocking call. I sometimes do the latter, but I'm hesitant to encourage others to do so, since it might require a learning curve and there are subtle ways to go wrong. Or you can put the blocking call in a command-line utility or find a command-line utility that does what you want. Then all you have to do is figure out how to run that. Dar -- ********************************************** DSC (Dar Scott Consulting & Dar's Lab) http://www.swcp.com/dsc/ Programming and software ********************************************** From ambassador at fourthworld.com Thu Jun 2 12:33:53 2005 From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin) Date: Thu, 02 Jun 2005 09:33:53 -0700 Subject: Threaded anim GIFs? Message-ID: <429F34F1.5050907@fourthworld.com> I've noticed that animated GIFs only animate while the engine is idle -- anyone know a trick to get them to continue animating while the engine is busy with a script? I'd like to use an anim GIF as part of a progress dialog, but I imagine the engine could do a more efficient job than my scripts of changing frames if there was a built-in capability of doing so without having to explicitely tell it each time. -- Richard Gaskin Fourth World Media Corporation ___________________________________________________________ Ambassador at FourthWorld.com http://www.FourthWorld.com From stephenREVOLUTION at barncard.com Thu Jun 2 12:32:45 2005 From: stephenREVOLUTION at barncard.com (Stephen Barncard) Date: Thu, 2 Jun 2005 09:32:45 -0700 Subject: platforms was "x-plat dialog layouts" In-Reply-To: <429F0B3B.1070303@tweedly.net> References: <429E985A.8060703@fourthworld.com> <429F0B3B.1070303@tweedly.net> Message-ID: It's more like 5% and growing, not 2% these days and I'm still too much of a Microsoft avoider to let that go, wink or no wink!... sqb At 2:35 PM +0100 6/2/05, Alex Tweedly wrote: > >F. Just do it the Windows way - the other 2% of the world doesn't >matter for now, and WILL be assimilated in time. > > >P.S. :-) > > >-- >Alex Tweedly http://www.tweedly.net From jacque at hyperactivesw.com Thu Jun 2 12:36:30 2005 From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay) Date: Thu, 02 Jun 2005 11:36:30 -0500 Subject: IDE hangs up In-Reply-To: <1253148707.20050602084732@ahsoftware.net> References: <429EFD14.1060003@sover.net> <59C6F50B-AF30-4A0E-BD94-DEAD4A10FAC5@sosmartsoftware.com> <1253148707.20050602084732@ahsoftware.net> Message-ID: <429F358E.4040103@hyperactivesw.com> On 6/2/05 10:47 AM, Mark Wieder wrote: > Jon- > > Thursday, June 2, 2005, 5:43:12 AM, you wrote: > > Yet more clues: > > You use h and w but never initialize them. Whoops, missed that one in my critique. He's right, Jon. -- Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com From scott at tactilemedia.com Thu Jun 2 12:43:39 2005 From: scott at tactilemedia.com (Scott Rossi) Date: Thu, 02 Jun 2005 09:43:39 -0700 Subject: resizeable stacks In-Reply-To: <429F2510.6010106@sover.net> Message-ID: Recently, Jon wrote: > You are correct. I saw that in the documentation, but I wanted to > change the properties at design time, not at run time. It turns out > that this is possible, but the names are so confused that it is not > possible to do this without the assistance of the group. Hi Jon: Just so you know, "controls" and "decorations" really are two different things -- the names cannot be interchanged, regardless of whether you are designing a stack or running it. I agree that "decorations" may not be the most intuitive word to describe a stack's window controls, but it's not that wacky a term given that many UI developers refer to window controls as "widgets". And BTW, even after years of working with Rev, things I've thought impossible have become possible with the assistance of the group. So take advantage of it -- folks here are very generous with their time. Regards, Scott Rossi Creative Director Tactile Media, Multimedia & Design ----- E: scott at tactilemedia.com W: http://www.tactilemedia.com From mark at maseurope.net Thu Jun 2 12:44:49 2005 From: mark at maseurope.net (Mark Smith) Date: Thu, 2 Jun 2005 17:44:49 +0100 Subject: text "databases" in Rev In-Reply-To: <20050602154523.3565A93031C@mail.runrev.com> References: <20050602154523.3565A93031C@mail.runrev.com> Message-ID: You could just use files, in XML or whatever format you like. You can use the specialFolderPath() function to get the path to whatever directory would be appropriate to store them in. Cheers, Mark On 2 Jun 2005, at 16:45, Jon wrote: > I often use INI files in Delphi as a poor man's database in Windows. > If > I want to remember a small number of configuration parameters, what is > the best way to store them? I do NOT want them to be part of the > stack: > I want them to be part of a separate named data object, so I can load a > set, modify it, store it, and then load a different set. > > Thanks! > > Jon From scott at tactilemedia.com Thu Jun 2 12:46:12 2005 From: scott at tactilemedia.com (Scott Rossi) Date: Thu, 02 Jun 2005 09:46:12 -0700 Subject: Threaded anim GIFs? In-Reply-To: <429F34F1.5050907@fourthworld.com> Message-ID: Recently, Richard Gaskin wrote: > I've noticed that animated GIFs only animate while the engine is idle -- > anyone know a trick to get them to continue animating while the engine > is busy with a script? > > I'd like to use an anim GIF as part of a progress dialog, but I imagine > the engine could do a more efficient job than my scripts of changing > frames if there was a built-in capability of doing so without having to > explicitely tell it each time. Try placing a few "wait 2 milliseconds with messages" lines in your processing script. It may slow down your script a few milliseconds but this is the only way I could find to get an animated GIF to run. Regards, Scott Rossi Creative Director Tactile Media, Multimedia & Design ----- E: scott at tactilemedia.com W: http://www.tactilemedia.com From jacque at hyperactivesw.com Thu Jun 2 12:46:02 2005 From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay) Date: Thu, 02 Jun 2005 11:46:02 -0500 Subject: IDE hangs up In-Reply-To: <429F314E.3020308@sover.net> References: <429EFD14.1060003@sover.net> <429F3054.4090706@hyperactivesw.com> <429F314E.3020308@sover.net> Message-ID: <429F37CA.9030908@hyperactivesw.com> On 6/2/05 11:18 AM, Jon wrote: > Wow: > > Thanks for your detailed help. I know it took a lot of time, and I > appreciate it. You're welcome, but please note that my brain was not caffeinated enough to catch all my own typos when I wrote that. Here is a correction: >> Command handlers are written the way you have done it. Functions >> generally return a value to the calling handler are are written in >> this format: put myFunction() into tResult. If there are values to be >> passed to the function, you add them inside the parentheses: get >> myFunction(val1,val2) into tResult. This is a result of poor editing on my part. The "are are" should be "and are". That last sentence should be: put myFunction(val1,val2) into tResult If you use "get" there, as I had originally, you'll get an error and will become completely confused all over again. :) Making more coffee now... -- Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com From mwieder at ahsoftware.net Thu Jun 2 12:49:40 2005 From: mwieder at ahsoftware.net (Mark Wieder) Date: Thu, 2 Jun 2005 09:49:40 -0700 Subject: resizeable stacks In-Reply-To: <429F2510.6010106@sover.net> References: <429E3626.40906@sover.net> <429E36F4.4060704@fourthworld.com> <429E376C.5050404@sover.net> <429E3CD1.40609@fourthworld.com> <429E3DBD.9010104@sover.net> <429E4196.6010408@fourthworld.com> <429E50D8.5030505@sover.net> <1001692293.20050602082315@ahsoftware.net> <429F2510.6010106@sover.net> Message-ID: <676877459.20050602094940@ahsoftware.net> Jon- Thursday, June 2, 2005, 8:26:08 AM, you wrote: J> I appreciate all of the help that the group has provided. I just wanted J> to point out a possible improvement in terminology to reduce needless J> traffic on the group in the future. Well, I've never cared much for the "decorations" term myself, but nobody asked me when they made the rules. Nonetheless, "controls" are very specific things in xtalk (see Klaus's recent conference stalk on the subject), so you'd need some other term to refer to the... er... controls... on the windowbar. Or whatever that thing is called. -- -Mark Wieder mwieder at ahsoftware.net From mwieder at ahsoftware.net Thu Jun 2 12:50:18 2005 From: mwieder at ahsoftware.net (Mark Wieder) Date: Thu, 2 Jun 2005 09:50:18 -0700 Subject: resizeable stacks In-Reply-To: <429F2510.6010106@sover.net> References: <429E3626.40906@sover.net> <429E36F4.4060704@fourthworld.com> <429E376C.5050404@sover.net> <429E3CD1.40609@fourthworld.com> <429E3DBD.9010104@sover.net> <429E4196.6010408@fourthworld.com> <429E50D8.5030505@sover.net> <1001692293.20050602082315@ahsoftware.net> <429F2510.6010106@sover.net> Message-ID: <856915584.20050602095018@ahsoftware.net> Jon- Thursday, June 2, 2005, 8:26:08 AM, you wrote: Gack! Make that "stack", not "stalk"... -- -Mark Wieder mwieder at ahsoftware.net From ambassador at fourthworld.com Thu Jun 2 12:50:04 2005 From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin) Date: Thu, 02 Jun 2005 09:50:04 -0700 Subject: text "databases" in Rev In-Reply-To: <429F31D9.2020606@sover.net> References: <429F31D9.2020606@sover.net> Message-ID: <429F38BC.5040905@fourthworld.com> Jon wrote: > I often use INI files in Delphi as a poor man's database in Windows. If > I want to remember a small number of configuration parameters, what is > the best way to store them? I do NOT want them to be part of the stack: > I want them to be part of a separate named data object, so I can load a > set, modify it, store it, and then load a different set. You might consider using another stack file for data storage, using custom properties -- it's instantly and easily parsed, and allows for some forms of hierarchical data as well: -- Richard Gaskin Fourth World Media Corporation ___________________________________________________________ Ambassador at FourthWorld.com http://www.FourthWorld.com From mwieder at ahsoftware.net Thu Jun 2 12:52:02 2005 From: mwieder at ahsoftware.net (Mark Wieder) Date: Thu, 2 Jun 2005 09:52:02 -0700 Subject: Rev. User Groups in the USA? In-Reply-To: <429F2D2C.9070605@fourthworld.com> References: <429F2D2C.9070605@fourthworld.com> Message-ID: <267019333.20050602095202@ahsoftware.net> Richard- Thursday, June 2, 2005, 9:00:44 AM, you wrote: RG> I believe there are enough users in many metro areas (SF bay and NY at RG> least) to warrant more.... I keep promising to get something together here in the Bay Area, but it won't be until at least after Monterey. Maybe July. -- -Mark Wieder mwieder at ahsoftware.net From ambassador at fourthworld.com Thu Jun 2 12:54:09 2005 From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin) Date: Thu, 02 Jun 2005 09:54:09 -0700 Subject: resizeable stacks In-Reply-To: <676877459.20050602094940@ahsoftware.net> References: <429E3626.40906@sover.net> <429E36F4.4060704@fourthworld.com> <429E376C.5050404@sover.net> <429E3CD1.40609@fourthworld.com> <429E3DBD.9010104@sover.net> <429E4196.6010408@fourthworld.com> <429E50D8.5030505@sover.net> <1001692293.20050602082315@ahsoftware.net> <429F2510.6010106@sover.net> <676877459.20050602094940@ahsoftware.net> Message-ID: <429F39B1.3080309@fourthworld.com> Mark Wieder wrote: > Well, I've never cared much for the "decorations" term myself, but > nobody asked me when they made the rules. Nonetheless, "controls" are > very specific things in xtalk... Searching Google for "window decorations" turns up a lot of links to KDE and other Linux/UNIX discussions. As with some other tokens in Transcript, now and then the engine's UNIX roots show through.... -- Richard Gaskin Fourth World Media Corporation __________________________________________________ Rev tools and more: http://www.fourthworld.com/rev From rjb at robelko.com Thu Jun 2 12:55:25 2005 From: rjb at robelko.com (Robert Brenstein) Date: Thu, 2 Jun 2005 18:55:25 +0200 Subject: text "databases" in Rev In-Reply-To: <429F31D9.2020606@sover.net> References: <429F31D9.2020606@sover.net> Message-ID: >I often use INI files in Delphi as a poor man's database in Windows. >If I want to remember a small number of configuration parameters, >what is the best way to store them? I do NOT want them to be part >of the stack: I want them to be part of a separate named data >object, so I can load a set, modify it, store it, and then load a >different set. > >Thanks! > >Jon You can do exactly same in Rev. Search list archives for "preferences". Robert From davethebrv at crystalpiersw.com Thu Jun 2 12:58:22 2005 From: davethebrv at crystalpiersw.com (Dave Beck) Date: Thu, 2 Jun 2005 09:58:22 -0700 Subject: get URL returning empty string In-Reply-To: <20050601230155.13BFC93021E@mail.runrev.com> Message-ID: <20050602161623.BBCF9930078@mail.runrev.com> Thanks Chipp!! But unfortunately putting the command in a repeat structure like that doesn't seem to be helping. For some reason "get URL" returning empty is quite consistent behavior on at least one customer's machine. Might it help to use the "load" command instead? Are they implemented more or less the same way internally? What about communicating through sockets? Is that more reliable? (I am currently using a .php script to execute some commands on the server and return a value.) Thanks so much your help. It is really nice to have such a knowledgeable person to turn to when the going gets tough. Dave >Hi Dave, > >There may be a couple of reasons for this, either latency in your >network or a funny firewall and/or proxy setup. > >Here's what you can do: > >repeat 5 times > put URL "http:/myURL.com" into tData > if tData is empty then next repeat >end repeat > >if tData is empty then > answer "Can't get URL data!" >else > put tData into fld "xyz" >end if > >I've found this sort of repeat structure to help in these situations. > >Dave Beck wrote: >> Hi, >> >> I am having a problem with the "get URL" command returning an empty string. >> The "result" variable is also empty. I know that the web page that I am >> trying to load is NOT empty. It seems to work properly on some machines but >> return the empty string on others. Has anybody else experienced this issue? >> Is there a work around? From st.king42 at ntlworld.com Thu Jun 2 13:02:44 2005 From: st.king42 at ntlworld.com (Stephen King) Date: Thu, 2 Jun 2005 18:02:44 +0100 Subject: player blinking all over the place References: <20050602154523.54C3E93031D@mail.runrev.com> Message-ID: <003601c56794$e6a08f30$5602a8c0@athalon> Jon, May be same as I and others have had - see Bug 2692 - note that though the menu is referenced, this is not necessary for the bug (see comment 3). http://support.runrev.com/bugdatabase/show_bug.cgi?id=2692 Still open I believe, not sure why its still shown as unconfirmed though. Cheers Steve > > I put a Player on a main stack. I then put a few tables and a button. > Often when I switch back to the stack, in design mode, the player starts > flickering like mad, and all of Revolution stops responding for a > while. If I switch to another task and back, the Player settles down. > > Any clues as to what is going on, and how I can make the Player settle > down? > From stephenREVOLUTION at barncard.com Thu Jun 2 13:03:55 2005 From: stephenREVOLUTION at barncard.com (Stephen Barncard) Date: Thu, 2 Jun 2005 10:03:55 -0700 Subject: [OPINION] Re: Windows Absolute Control In-Reply-To: <552051379.20050602082914@ahsoftware.net> References: <20050601183742.9917193018F@mail.runrev.com> <46cbfb006cad39df8e207f84cba4ce76@jhj.com> <1b014effb36a8e863c99c3e120411e37@mac.com> <429F0E6B.7020202@tweedly.net> <552051379.20050602082914@ahsoftware.net> Message-ID: Let me preface this by saying my hat is off to you authors who have no choice and struggle with Windows every day. And for those who love Windows and think it's great, you might want to move on to the next message. >At 8:29 AM -0700 6/2/05, Mark Wieder wrote: >>Alex- >> >>Thursday, June 2, 2005, 6:49:31 AM, you wrote: >> >>AT> I think that's a very user-unfriendly form of registration; once I've >> >>but that's the way Microsoft handles client licenses... oh, right, I >guess that's what you were saying... Yes and a major reason why I won't do a project in Windoze. I got my first cheap Wintel box last year ($300) to check web pages. I was shocked one can't even change a hard drive in a XP Home system without checking in to Galactic Command Center and going through a procedure. It wasn't even the boot drive I was trying to upgrade, but a removable tray. Talk about paranoia. Hopefully Revoluton will raise the bar on Windows software and interface design in general, as many of the designs I've seen on common Windows programs are downright stupid, ugly, counterintuitive and hard to use. The exceptions seem to be cross-platform ones the authors strived to make Mac-like, like Pro-Tools or iTunes, Windoze version, and the beautiful work that Eric and Chipp and others here have done. So I know it can be done.. At 8:29 AM -0700 6/2/05, Mark Wieder wrote: >Alex- > >Thursday, June 2, 2005, 6:49:31 AM, you wrote: > >AT> I think that's a very user-unfriendly form of registration; once I've > >but that's the way Microsoft handles client licenses... oh, right, I >guess that's what you were saying... > > > > > > >-- >-Mark Wieder > mwieder at ahsoftware.net From pevensen at siboneylg.com Thu Jun 2 13:14:51 2005 From: pevensen at siboneylg.com (Peter T. Evensen) Date: Thu, 02 Jun 2005 12:14:51 -0500 Subject: IDE blowing up a lot In-Reply-To: <429E393D.8070303@sover.net> References: <429E393D.8070303@sover.net> Message-ID: <6.2.1.2.2.20050602121329.04563e88@exchange.slg.com> I do see this on Windows XP. (Perhaps I should switch to using my Mac for primary development...) It happens most of the time after a stack disappears when I drag something to it (which I complained about the other day). I do a Close and Purge from the file menu so I can reload the stack and get it back, and probably 8 times out of 10, when I click the file menu again, the IDE quits and goes away. At 05:39 PM 6/1/2005, you wrote: >Every so often, when I try to click on Files, to do a Save, the IDE just >disappears, and all is lost. Pretty frustrating and anxiety provoking. >So now I'm saving (using the Application Browser, which does not blow up) >all of the time. But whenever I forget, I'm screwed. > >Anyone else seeing this problem? > >Jon >_______________________________________________ >use-revolution mailing list >use-revolution at lists.runrev.com >http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution Peter T. Evensen http://www.PetersRoadToHealth.com 24-hour recorded info hotline: 1-800-624-7671 From lists at mangomultimedia.com Thu Jun 2 13:15:33 2005 From: lists at mangomultimedia.com (Trevor DeVore) Date: Thu, 2 Jun 2005 10:15:33 -0700 Subject: Threaded anim GIFs? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <6c79943b553b3f62606255b68ad0e9da@mangomultimedia.com> On Jun 2, 2005, at 9:46 AM, Scott Rossi wrote: > Recently, Richard Gaskin wrote: > >> I've noticed that animated GIFs only animate while the engine is idle >> -- >> anyone know a trick to get them to continue animating while the engine >> is busy with a script? >> >> I'd like to use an anim GIF as part of a progress dialog, but I >> imagine >> the engine could do a more efficient job than my scripts of changing >> frames if there was a built-in capability of doing so without having >> to >> explicitely tell it each time. > > Try placing a few "wait 2 milliseconds with messages" lines in your > processing script. It may slow down your script a few milliseconds > but this > is the only way I could find to get an animated GIF to run. I ran into this problem recently while trying to use an animated gif to show status of loading/saving QT movies. The animation just pauses during parts of these operations. I just filed a feature request for animated gifs that animated independent of whatever else was happening in the engine. -- Trevor DeVore Blue Mango Multimedia trevor at mangomultimedia.com From emilio at ualberta.ca Thu Jun 2 13:19:36 2005 From: emilio at ualberta.ca (Emilio Gagliardi) Date: Thu, 2 Jun 2005 11:19:36 -0600 Subject: Creating Drag and Drop Message-ID: <83279130-4689-4886-90E9-4595309928B3@ualberta.ca> Dear Eric I now realize this code is not what i need because it implements drap and drop with objects outside of the Revolution Window. It does not appear that dragEnter and dragDrop fire for objects within the revolution window. That is, I want to drag objects that are within the window. Perhaps I am not using your code correctly, but I do not see how to make a field or button cause the dragEnter command to fire. I would like the user to drag a field or button around, place it over an image or field and then store the name or ID of the field/ button they just dragged for later use. What i'm stuck on is determining whether the source field/button is over the target field/ image AND which commands fire and in what order. Thank you for your time. Emilio From bvlahos at mac.com Thu Jun 2 13:25:47 2005 From: bvlahos at mac.com (Bill Vlahos) Date: Thu, 2 Jun 2005 10:25:47 -0700 Subject: Shell command doesn't give feedback until done Message-ID: I am using this command: put shell(command()) into field "status" which works. How can I solve these 2 problems? 1. The UI is frozen until the the command completes. 2. The "status" field isn't updated until the command completes. I would like to see feedback as the shell command is running. The shell command could take a long time to run and it returns informational feedback during the process which would be good to display to the user. The Rev documentation states: > The value returned by the shell function is the result of the > commandLine, including any error messages the commandLine > generates. (On Unix systems, the stdout and stderr are combined to > create the return value.) The current handler pauses until the > shell returns its result. If the command was successful but did not > return anything, the shell function returns empty. It looks to me like the feedback I want is not possible. Is it? Bill Vlahos From dsc at swcp.com Thu Jun 2 13:35:07 2005 From: dsc at swcp.com (Dar Scott) Date: Thu, 2 Jun 2005 11:35:07 -0600 Subject: Shell command doesn't give feedback until done In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <690f8e9263fd9de6df434867b764e7fb@swcp.com> On Jun 2, 2005, at 11:25 AM, Bill Vlahos wrote: > I am using this command: put shell(command()) into field "status" > which works. > The shell command could take a long time to run and it returns > informational feedback during the process which would be good to > display to the user. On Windows you might be able to use 'open process', but some time ago I found it bug ridden and not suitable for what I was doing. In some special case it might work. On OS X you might be able to do something with Terminal and AppleScript. If you can spin off the process and redirect the output to a file, you might be able to monitor the file or the directory of the file. Dar -- ********************************************** DSC (Dar Scott Consulting & Dar's Lab) http://www.swcp.com/dsc/ See you at RevCon West '05 ********************************************** From jperryl at ecs.fullerton.edu Thu Jun 2 13:54:21 2005 From: jperryl at ecs.fullerton.edu (Judy Perry) Date: Thu, 2 Jun 2005 10:54:21 -0700 (PDT) Subject: About Piracy but not about the guy... In-Reply-To: <20050602114126.45932.qmail@web40525.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Hey, if you can figure it out, can you clue me in? I spent about 15 very frustrated minutes with it and couldn't figure out what to do with it! Judy On Thu, 2 Jun 2005, Alejandro Tejada wrote: > Ben, here are plenty free downloable software: > > > I hope to find the time to learn Blender, someday. From klaus at major-k.de Thu Jun 2 13:57:40 2005 From: klaus at major-k.de (Klaus Major) Date: Thu, 2 Jun 2005 19:57:40 +0200 Subject: Creating Drag and Drop In-Reply-To: <83279130-4689-4886-90E9-4595309928B3@ualberta.ca> References: <83279130-4689-4886-90E9-4595309928B3@ualberta.ca> Message-ID: <08E88290-6D76-4A76-BEC2-B3B1FB877DEA@major-k.de> Hi Emilio, > Dear Eric > I now realize this code is not what i need because it implements > drap and drop with objects outside of the Revolution Window. It > does not appear that dragEnter and dragDrop fire for objects within > the revolution window. That is, I want to drag objects that are > within the window. Perhaps I am not using your code correctly, but > I do not see how to make a field or button cause the dragEnter > command to fire. I would like the user to drag a field or button > around, place it over an image or field and then store the name or > ID of the field/button they just dragged for later use. What i'm > stuck on is determining whether the source field/button is over the > target field/image AND which commands fire and in what order. > > Thank you for your time. if i remember correctly Scott Rossi has a "Drag Sample" stack, which does exactly what you need. It works with the "mousemove" message, i think... Scott, could you supply an URL for that one? > Emilio Regards Klaus Major klaus at major-k.de http://www.major-k.de From jbondy at sover.net Thu Jun 2 13:57:46 2005 From: jbondy at sover.net (Jon) Date: Thu, 02 Jun 2005 13:57:46 -0400 Subject: button stops working Message-ID: <429F489A.7060402@sover.net> I created a project with a Player and a Button. The button asks the user to select an audio file and then assigns the file name to the Player. The button worked once, but no longer. Nothing I do gets control back to the script associated with the button. I even made a new button and copied the script text to the new button's script. I even quit out of Rev and came back in. Breakpoints don't help: I never reach them. Any thoughts as to what I might have done to accidentally disable a mouseDown event in a script? :) Jon From ambassador at fourthworld.com Thu Jun 2 14:02:44 2005 From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin) Date: Thu, 02 Jun 2005 11:02:44 -0700 Subject: [OPINION] Re: Windows Absolute Control In-Reply-To: References: <20050601183742.9917193018F@mail.runrev.com> <46cbfb006cad39df8e207f84cba4ce76@jhj.com> <1b014effb36a8e863c99c3e120411e37@mac.com> <429F0E6B.7020202@tweedly.net> <552051379.20050602082914@ahsoftware.net> Message-ID: <429F49C4.3010202@fourthworld.com> Stephen Barncard wrote: >> AT> I think that's a very user-unfriendly form of registration; >> but that's the way Microsoft handles client licenses... oh, right, >> I guess that's what you were saying... > > Yes and a major reason why I won't do a project in Windoze. I got > my first cheap Wintel box last year ($300) to check web pages. I > was shocked one can't even change a hard drive in a XP Home system > without checking in to Galactic Command Center and going through > a procedure. While Microsoft takes a lot of justifiable flack for things like its anti-trust practices (an ethical lapse some say Apple is not immune to either), given the increasing use of "phone home" activation systems I'm not sure it's fair to single Microsoft out on that one. Many companies require online activation, including Adobe and even one of the Mac community's most revered publishers, Ambrosia: WebMerge uses an online activation system, and an increasing number of my clients are asking for it for their apps too. Online activation is popular because it works: being able to verify how many times a single reg code is in use can be valuable, and in many cases is the only way to prevent unauthorized use. Done well it requires no additional action beyond what one would ordinarily expect to enter into a registration window, and the transaction itself usually takes no longer than the arbitrary pause most developers put into reg windows anyway to avoid brute-force cra cki ng efforts. In the early days when Micro$oft first adopted it and was lambasted for it, I avoided it like the plague. But after Ambrosia's widely-read article failed to elicit significant negative feedback, it seemed an idea whose time has come. > Hopefully Revoluton will raise the bar on Windows software and > interface design in general, as many of the designs I've seen > on common Windows programs are downright stupid, ugly, > counterintuitive and hard to use. Sadly it's too late to change many of them, like their placement of confirm/cancel buttons in dialogs being counter to how the Western mind scans for information. Their backwards decision is now so widely used that the world must accommodate it or risk losing the greater benefits of consistency and muscle memory. Since Micro$oft has the world's most well-funded usability lab I'd like to believe they'll boldly recognize Longhorn as an opportunity to break with their past and instead actually use the information coming from their lab. We'll see.... -- Richard Gaskin Fourth World Media Corporation __________________________________________________ Rev tools and more: http://www.fourthworld.com/rev From jbondy at sover.net Thu Jun 2 14:03:42 2005 From: jbondy at sover.net (Jon) Date: Thu, 02 Jun 2005 14:03:42 -0400 Subject: player hints Message-ID: <429F49FE.6060104@sover.net> Is there any way to get a message from a Player every second, or so, so that I can put up a message indicating the current position? I see the Callbacks property, but I don't want to load it with 1000 entries if I can avoid it. I suppose I could enter one value and then modify it when the event occurs for the first time. :) Jon From jbondy at sover.net Thu Jun 2 14:01:57 2005 From: jbondy at sover.net (Jon) Date: Thu, 02 Jun 2005 14:01:57 -0400 Subject: table hints Message-ID: <429F4995.5010209@sover.net> Since nobody pointed me to the Table doc requested in an earlier message, here are some specific questions: 1) how can I specify the width of each column, or must they all be the same width? 2) how do I specify the number of rows and columns in the data in the table? By simply filling it with data of the appropriate "shape"? If it is this "simple", why do the tables show additional columns that are "empty"? :) Jon From eric.chatonet at sosmartsoftware.com Thu Jun 2 14:07:52 2005 From: eric.chatonet at sosmartsoftware.com (Eric Chatonet) Date: Thu, 2 Jun 2005 20:07:52 +0200 Subject: Creating Drag and Drop In-Reply-To: <83279130-4689-4886-90E9-4595309928B3@ualberta.ca> References: <83279130-4689-4886-90E9-4595309928B3@ualberta.ca> Message-ID: Hi Emilio, Sorry that this stack could not help you. In your case, I think that you could use another method I used in many projects: While the mouse is down, you use the mouseMove message in the dragged object (or send a message in milliseconds) to track where is the mouseLoc (see the mouseStack function and within operator) and act accordingly. If I understand correctly (I am not sure :-), it might be more simple if it is always within the same stack window: when the mouse is up, you check the mouseLoc, the position of the object, etc. Le 2 juin 05 ? 19:19, Emilio Gagliardi a ?crit : > Dear Eric > I now realize this code is not what i need because it implements > drap and drop with objects outside of the Revolution Window. It > does not appear that dragEnter and dragDrop fire for objects within > the revolution window. That is, I want to drag objects that are > within the window. Perhaps I am not using your code correctly, but > I do not see how to make a field or button cause the dragEnter > command to fire. I would like the user to drag a field or button > around, place it over an image or field and then store the name or > ID of the field/button they just dragged for later use. What i'm > stuck on is determining whether the source field/button is over the > target field/image AND which commands fire and in what order. Best regards from Paris, Eric Chatonet. ---------------------------------------------------------------- So Smart Software For institutions, companies and associations Built-to-order applications: management, multimedia, internet, etc. Windows, Mac OS and Linux... With the French touch Plugins, tutorials and more on our website ---------------------------------------------------------------- Web site http://www.sosmartsoftware.com/ Email eric.chatonet at sosmartsoftware.com/ Phone 33 (0)1 43 31 77 62 Mobile 33 (0)6 20 74 50 86 ---------------------------------------------------------------- From eric.chatonet at sosmartsoftware.com Thu Jun 2 14:12:59 2005 From: eric.chatonet at sosmartsoftware.com (Eric Chatonet) Date: Thu, 2 Jun 2005 20:12:59 +0200 Subject: table hints In-Reply-To: <429F4995.5010209@sover.net> References: <429F4995.5010209@sover.net> Message-ID: <33288D15-61FA-495B-8209-B00BD6E2993C@sosmartsoftware.com> Hi Jon, Just dig in in my [ANN] mail about 2 hours ago: you will find a "tutorial" (in this case, it's only clues) about managing table fields and tabStops of course (check this entry in the docs). Le 2 juin 05 ? 20:01, Jon a ?crit : > Since nobody pointed me to the Table doc requested in an earlier > message, here are some specific questions: > > 1) how can I specify the width of each column, or must they all be > the same width? > 2) how do I specify the number of rows and columns in the data in > the table? By simply filling it with data of the appropriate > "shape"? If it is this "simple", why do the tables show additional > columns that are "empty"? Best regards from Paris, Eric Chatonet. ---------------------------------------------------------------- So Smart Software For institutions, companies and associations Built-to-order applications: management, multimedia, internet, etc. Windows, Mac OS and Linux... With the French touch Plugins, tutorials and more on our website ---------------------------------------------------------------- Web site http://www.sosmartsoftware.com/ Email eric.chatonet at sosmartsoftware.com/ Phone 33 (0)1 43 31 77 62 Mobile 33 (0)6 20 74 50 86 ---------------------------------------------------------------- From stephenREVOLUTION at barncard.com Thu Jun 2 14:14:22 2005 From: stephenREVOLUTION at barncard.com (Stephen Barncard) Date: Thu, 2 Jun 2005 11:14:22 -0700 Subject: [OPINION] Re: Windows Absolute Control In-Reply-To: <429F49C4.3010202@fourthworld.com> References: <20050601183742.9917193018F@mail.runrev.com> <46cbfb006cad39df8e207f84cba4ce76@jhj.com> <1b014effb36a8e863c99c3e120411e37@mac.com> <429F0E6B.7020202@tweedly.net> <552051379.20050602082914@ahsoftware.net> <429F49C4.3010202@fourthworld.com> Message-ID: My beef, Richard is not with activation as you describe (although as a user I find it very annoying), but the scrutiny that is uncalled for, such as Microsoft putting me through their gauntlet when I try to change a hard drive that has nothing to do with the os or any app - that is none of their business.....You change ANYTHING in Windoze driven hardware, a card, a drive, and it will want you to re-register, possibly even pay again (it wasn't clear). No thanks. Great to keep IT teams busy (bless their hearts) but no thanks. I'm afraid to even add ram. At 11:02 AM -0700 6/2/05, Richard Gaskin wrote: >increasing use of "phone home" activation systems I'm not sure it's >fair to single Microsoft out on that one. From eric.chatonet at sosmartsoftware.com Thu Jun 2 14:14:52 2005 From: eric.chatonet at sosmartsoftware.com (Eric Chatonet) Date: Thu, 2 Jun 2005 20:14:52 +0200 Subject: player hints In-Reply-To: <429F49FE.6060104@sover.net> References: <429F49FE.6060104@sover.net> Message-ID: <04DE49FF-E267-4611-AB3A-427FBFE13E31@sosmartsoftware.com> Hi again, Have a look at the playPaused and playStopped messages in the docs: they might help you :-) Le 2 juin 05 ? 20:03, Jon a ?crit : > Is there any way to get a message from a Player every second, or > so, so that I can put up a message indicating the current > position? I see the Callbacks property, but I don't want to load > it with 1000 entries if I can avoid it. I suppose I could enter > one value and then modify it when the event occurs for the first time. Best regards from Paris, Eric Chatonet. ---------------------------------------------------------------- So Smart Software For institutions, companies and associations Built-to-order applications: management, multimedia, internet, etc. Windows, Mac OS and Linux... With the French touch Plugins, tutorials and more on our website ---------------------------------------------------------------- Web site http://www.sosmartsoftware.com/ Email eric.chatonet at sosmartsoftware.com/ Phone 33 (0)1 43 31 77 62 Mobile 33 (0)6 20 74 50 86 ---------------------------------------------------------------- From see3d at writeme.com Thu Jun 2 14:22:00 2005 From: see3d at writeme.com (Dennis Brown) Date: Thu, 02 Jun 2005 14:22:00 -0400 Subject: table hints In-Reply-To: <429F4995.5010209@sover.net> References: <429F4995.5010209@sover.net> Message-ID: <32CC1B59-1AC0-4BEA-B0FC-98166192004B@writeme.com> Jon, I just downloaded this stack and took the table tutorial. It is excellent... > So Smart Software (http://www.sosmartsoftware.com/) today announces > the availability of... > > Tutorials Picker 1.0 - Real time access to the So Smart Software > tutorials > > Tutorials Picker interfaces with the So Smart Software website in > order to display all available tutorials directly from the web. By > using it Rev users are sure to always have access to the last > updates and the new releases. > > The tutorials already available deal with the following topics... > How to use table fields Dennis On Jun 2, 2005, at 2:01 PM, Jon wrote: > Since nobody pointed me to the Table doc requested in an earlier > message, here are some specific questions: > > 1) how can I specify the width of each column, or must they all be > the same width? > 2) how do I specify the number of rows and columns in the data in > the table? By simply filling it with data of the appropriate > "shape"? If it is this "simple", why do the tables show additional > columns that are "empty"? > > :) > > Jon > > _______________________________________________ > use-revolution mailing list > use-revolution at lists.runrev.com > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution > From mwieder at ahsoftware.net Thu Jun 2 14:30:42 2005 From: mwieder at ahsoftware.net (Mark Wieder) Date: Thu, 2 Jun 2005 11:30:42 -0700 Subject: resizeable stacks In-Reply-To: <429F39B1.3080309@fourthworld.com> References: <429E3626.40906@sover.net> <429E36F4.4060704@fourthworld.com> <429E376C.5050404@sover.net> <429E3CD1.40609@fourthworld.com> <429E3DBD.9010104@sover.net> <429E4196.6010408@fourthworld.com> <429E50D8.5030505@sover.net> <429F2510.6010106@sover.net> <676877459.20050602094940@ahsoftware.net> <429F39B1.3080309@fourthworld.com> Message-ID: <4112939616.20050602113042@ahsoftware.net> Richard- Thursday, June 2, 2005, 9:54:09 AM, you wrote: RG> As with some other tokens in Transcript, now and then the engine's UNIX RG> roots show through.... True. I didn't say it wasn't an accepted term, just that I've never much cared for it. Kind of like "destroying" a stack... BZ #1072 (you don't vote for your own bug reports?) -- -Mark Wieder mwieder at ahsoftware.net From alex at tweedly.net Thu Jun 2 11:46:51 2005 From: alex at tweedly.net (Alex Tweedly) Date: Thu, 02 Jun 2005 16:46:51 +0100 Subject: About Piracy but not about that guy... In-Reply-To: <215.205c272.2fd07d5d@aol.com> References: <215.205c272.2fd07d5d@aol.com> Message-ID: <429F29EB.1030501@tweedly.net> SimPLsol at aol.com wrote: >Alex, >What if the computer ID was contained on a removable chip (like the GSM chips >in a cell phone)? Then, if the computer broke, or you upgraded to a new >computer, you would just move the chip. > > That would be much better. >I know, what if the chip failed? Since it would be just a single, simple >chip, failure would be less likely. Vendors would probably offer overnight chip >replacement. > > I wouldn't worry about chip failure; upgrading to a new laptop or desktop is fairly common - for me it happens every year or every other year (my wife plays a lot of computer games, so she needs to keep fairly up-to-date on hardware, and I get her cast-offs). Chip failure (esp. of a simple one like this) would be much less common, so waiting for an overnight shipment would be rare enough to not worry about it. There are still other issues - I use 2 laptops and 3 desktop machines, do I need 1 or 5 licenses ? multiple chips on one machine ? etc. - but a SIM-chip like solution would be far better than hardwiring to something fixed within the hardware (which I think is what the Newton did). -- Alex Tweedly http://www.tweedly.net -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.322 / Virus Database: 267.4.1 - Release Date: 02/06/2005 From alex at tweedly.net Thu Jun 2 13:14:10 2005 From: alex at tweedly.net (Alex Tweedly) Date: Thu, 02 Jun 2005 18:14:10 +0100 Subject: get URL returning empty string In-Reply-To: <20050602161623.BBCF9930078@mail.runrev.com> References: <20050602161623.BBCF9930078@mail.runrev.com> Message-ID: <429F3E62.4050508@tweedly.net> Dave Beck wrote: >Thanks Chipp!! > >But unfortunately putting the command in a repeat structure like that >doesn't seem to be helping. For some reason "get URL" returning empty is >quite consistent behavior on at least one customer's machine. > >Might it help to use the "load" command instead? Are they implemented more >or less the same way internally? What about communicating through sockets? >Is that more reliable? (I am currently using a .php script to execute some >commands on the server and return a value.) > > > Not directly answering your question, but .... on the machines which fail, can you try accessing the Web page (php script) from a browser and verify that works. I know you said >I know that the web page that I am >trying to load is NOT empty. > but I explicitly want to check for accessibility from the same machine on which it fails via Rev. -- Alex Tweedly http://www.tweedly.net -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.322 / Virus Database: 267.4.1 - Release Date: 02/06/2005 From scott at tactilemedia.com Thu Jun 2 14:35:48 2005 From: scott at tactilemedia.com (Scott Rossi) Date: Thu, 02 Jun 2005 11:35:48 -0700 Subject: Creating Drag and Drop In-Reply-To: <08E88290-6D76-4A76-BEC2-B3B1FB877DEA@major-k.de> Message-ID: Recently, Klaus Major wrote: > if i remember correctly Scott Rossi has a "Drag Sample" stack, > which does exactly what you need. > > It works with the "mousemove" message, i think... > > Scott, could you supply an URL for that one? But of course, Klaus. In your message box: go url "http://www.tactilemedia.com/download/drag_sample.rev" And this one is for drag-reordering of a list. go url "http://www.tactilemedia.com/download/getinline.rev" Regards, Scott Rossi Creative Director Tactile Media, Multimedia & Design ----- E: scott at tactilemedia.com W: http://www.tactilemedia.com From chipp at chipp.com Thu Jun 2 14:36:36 2005 From: chipp at chipp.com (Chipp Walters) Date: Thu, 02 Jun 2005 13:36:36 -0500 Subject: get URL returning empty string In-Reply-To: <20050602161623.BBCF9930078@mail.runrev.com> References: <20050602161623.BBCF9930078@mail.runrev.com> Message-ID: <429F51B4.3080806@chipp.com> Dave, Your welcome. The next thing I would check is to see if your user is behind a proxy server which need authentication. My guess he is in an enterprise environment and that they are using some sort of authentication scheme. If you can identify which scheme they are using, we can begin to work it from there. best, Chipp Dave Beck wrote: > Thanks Chipp!! > > But unfortunately putting the command in a repeat structure like that > doesn't seem to be helping. For some reason "get URL" returning empty is > quite consistent behavior on at least one customer's machine. From dsc at swcp.com Thu Jun 2 14:42:32 2005 From: dsc at swcp.com (Dar Scott) Date: Thu, 2 Jun 2005 12:42:32 -0600 Subject: [OPINION] Re: Windows Absolute Control In-Reply-To: References: <20050601183742.9917193018F@mail.runrev.com> <46cbfb006cad39df8e207f84cba4ce76@jhj.com> <1b014effb36a8e863c99c3e120411e37@mac.com> <429F0E6B.7020202@tweedly.net> <552051379.20050602082914@ahsoftware.net> <429F49C4.3010202@fourthworld.com> Message-ID: <1ca61bf5c3acf3e0af64533ae51d878d@swcp.com> On Jun 2, 2005, at 12:14 PM, Stephen Barncard wrote: > My beef, Richard is not with activation as you describe (although as a > user I find it very annoying), but the scrutiny that is uncalled for, > such as Microsoft putting me through their gauntlet when I try to > change a hard drive that has nothing to do with the os or any app - > that is none of their business.....You change ANYTHING in Windoze > driven hardware, a card, a drive, and it will want you to re-register, > possibly even pay again (it wasn't clear). No thanks. Great to keep IT > teams busy (bless their hearts) but no thanks. I'm afraid to even add > ram. I do find activation to be a pain at times. I find the new definitions of "machine" to be costly and tedious. And like you, I find the work involved in upgrading and cloning to be the most tedious. Even upgrading my VirtualPC made a bunch of OSes on virtual machines clammer for activation. I expect that will also happen when I try to move the virtual machines to new hosts. Microsoft makes it hard for me to use what I "buy". But they are not the only troublemakers out there. At the other end, GPLers try to control (own) what I build. Typically, the way folks seek to solve their problems is to try to control other people. For me, I have seen no evidence of wrongdoing by Microsoft in antitrust practices. Dar -- ********************************************** DSC (Dar Scott Consulting & Dar's Lab) http://www.swcp.com/dsc/ Programming and software ********************************************** From scott at tactilemedia.com Thu Jun 2 14:44:16 2005 From: scott at tactilemedia.com (Scott Rossi) Date: Thu, 02 Jun 2005 11:44:16 -0700 Subject: player hints In-Reply-To: <429F49FE.6060104@sover.net> Message-ID: Recently, Jon wrote: > Is there any way to get a message from a Player every second, or so, so > that I can put up a message indicating the current position? I see the > Callbacks property, but I don't want to load it with 1000 entries if I > can avoid it. I suppose I could enter one value and then modify it when > the event occurs for the first time. Instead of using the player itself to do this, you could use a script. For example, in your card script, the following would show the elapsed seconds of playback: on trackPlayer put (the currentTime of player "myPlayer" div 600) into fld "timer" send "trackPlayer" to me in (1 - (the long seconds mod 1)) seconds end trackPlayer Regards, Scott Rossi Creative Director Tactile Media, Multimedia & Design ----- E: scott at tactilemedia.com W: http://www.tactilemedia.com From jbondy at sover.net Thu Jun 2 14:46:07 2005 From: jbondy at sover.net (Jon) Date: Thu, 02 Jun 2005 14:46:07 -0400 Subject: player hints In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <429F53EF.8060604@sover.net> Scott: Excellent! I was wondering how to do something like that! :) Jon Scott Rossi wrote: >Recently, Jon wrote: > > > >>Is there any way to get a message from a Player every second, or so, so >>that I can put up a message indicating the current position? I see the >>Callbacks property, but I don't want to load it with 1000 entries if I >>can avoid it. I suppose I could enter one value and then modify it when >>the event occurs for the first time. >> >> > >Instead of using the player itself to do this, you could use a script. For >example, in your card script, the following would show the elapsed seconds >of playback: > > on trackPlayer > put (the currentTime of player "myPlayer" div 600) into fld "timer" > send "trackPlayer" to me in (1 - (the long seconds mod 1)) seconds > end trackPlayer > >Regards, > >Scott Rossi >Creative Director >Tactile Media, Multimedia & Design >----- >E: scott at tactilemedia.com >W: http://www.tactilemedia.com > >_______________________________________________ >use-revolution mailing list >use-revolution at lists.runrev.com >http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution > > > > From chipp at chipp.com Thu Jun 2 14:48:03 2005 From: chipp at chipp.com (Chipp Walters) Date: Thu, 02 Jun 2005 13:48:03 -0500 Subject: player hints In-Reply-To: <429F49FE.6060104@sover.net> References: <429F49FE.6060104@sover.net> Message-ID: <429F5463.4060705@chipp.com> You could create a handler which checks the currentTime of the player. something like this: (overly simple, script of player, card, or stack) on DisplayCurrentTime put the currentTime of player "myPlayer" into fld "theCurrentTime" send DisplayCurrentTime to me in 1 second end DisplayCurrentTime Then just call it. You'll want to create a way to turn it off as well. -Chipp Jon wrote: > Is there any way to get a message from a Player every second, or so, so > that I can put up a message indicating the current position? I see the > Callbacks property, but I don't want to load it with 1000 entries if I > can avoid it. I suppose I could enter one value and then modify it when > the event occurs for the first time. From ambassador at fourthworld.com Thu Jun 2 14:54:32 2005 From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin) Date: Thu, 02 Jun 2005 11:54:32 -0700 Subject: resizeable stacks In-Reply-To: <4112939616.20050602113042@ahsoftware.net> References: <429E3626.40906@sover.net> <429E36F4.4060704@fourthworld.com> <429E376C.5050404@sover.net> <429E3CD1.40609@fourthworld.com> <429E3DBD.9010104@sover.net> <429E4196.6010408@fourthworld.com> <429E50D8.5030505@sover.net> <429F2510.6010106@sover.net> <676877459.20050602094940@ahsoftware.net> <429F39B1.3080309@fourthworld.com> <4112939616.20050602113042@ahsoftware.net> Message-ID: <429F55E8.50103@fourthworld.com> Mark Wieder wrote: > Richard- > > Thursday, June 2, 2005, 9:54:09 AM, you wrote: > > RG> As with some other tokens in Transcript, now and then the engine's UNIX > RG> roots show through.... > > True. I didn't say it wasn't an accepted term, just that I've never > much cared for it. Kind of like "destroying" a stack... > > BZ #1072 (you don't vote for your own bug reports?) Generally I do, but with only 100 to go around I have to dole them out sparingly by priority. My strategy thus far is to participate in "mob voting": since it's not possible to fix all issues at once, I tend to throw my votes at the items that are important to me which also have the most votes from others. Once those are done I can move those votes to something else. -- Richard Gaskin Fourth World Media Corporation __________________________________________________ Rev tools and more: http://www.fourthworld.com/rev From ljk144 at gmail.com Thu Jun 2 15:00:10 2005 From: ljk144 at gmail.com (Levi Kendall) Date: Thu, 2 Jun 2005 15:00:10 -0400 Subject: Creating Drag and Drop In-Reply-To: References: <08E88290-6D76-4A76-BEC2-B3B1FB877DEA@major-k.de> Message-ID: > go url "http://www.tactilemedia.com/download/getinline.rev" Thanks for posting this. I have been having difficulty figuring out how to do something very similar to this. Great Example. -Levi From see3d at writeme.com Thu Jun 2 15:06:44 2005 From: see3d at writeme.com (Dennis Brown) Date: Thu, 02 Jun 2005 15:06:44 -0400 Subject: Property Table Type Doc Index for all entries In-Reply-To: References: <22BD69AE-90C9-4D52-B181-81FB45F8764D@writeme.com> <9A41A053-5AD4-494C-BC03-39E5E0DE2CB0@writeme.com> <13352199999.20050528230840@ahsoftware.net> <2DE2E3B3-EDAE-4C9F-8B4F-595A5A1AE048@writeme.com> Message-ID: <160652A6-9257-4F72-B8C4-48BB6306E04D@writeme.com> After using the Properties of Objects (POO) stack a bit, it occurs to me that this might be an efficient way to organize an index into all the entries in the dictionary. I find it a lot easier to learn by doing than reading a novel first. However, it helps to have some hints about what you can do. For instance with the POO I can sort on an object type and have a nice alphabetical list of the properties I might be interested in exploring. This is a quick way into the dictionary that is theme based. I thought about: Messages sorted by the objects that initially receive them Operators sorted by Binary,Numeric,String,etc... Functions sorted by Binary,Numeric,String,etc... Constants sorted by Binary,Numeric,String,etc... Keywords sorted by ??? Command sorted by ??? Control Structures to few to sort Objects to few to sort I can envision a simple table like the POO with 8 tabs for the 8 categories and the rest of the operation is the same. It is an easy task to automatically generate the name lists for each category, but it takes reading each entry in the dictionary to manually place the "X" in the right columns. Unlike, the POO properties which was a completely automatic process. Unfortunately I don't have the time to take on this whole project right now (I am behind on my main project and I don't generate Transcript very quickly yet), but I wanted to at least put down my thoughts and ask for some feedback. And of course if anyone else wants to take up this project now, you will have my full support. I could see an extension made to the POO stack with the 8 tabs and a mode to enter the "X" into the tables by hand. Perhaps it could be a collaborative effort like the ClockFace. That was fun! Any other thoughts about the utility of this or other ideas? Dennis From irog at mac.com Thu Jun 2 15:09:02 2005 From: irog at mac.com (Roger Guay) Date: Thu, 2 Jun 2005 12:09:02 -0700 Subject: Editable Fields Question Message-ID: <331FBB02-1AE6-4D6A-A7AE-9C2B4960222F@mac.com> I have an editable field which I can type into. However, when I try to copy and paste text using the Command-C and Command-V keys, nothing happens. I know Can anyone help? Thanks, Roger From emilio at ualberta.ca Thu Jun 2 15:17:35 2005 From: emilio at ualberta.ca (Emilio Gagliardi) Date: Thu, 2 Jun 2005 13:17:35 -0600 Subject: Creating Drag and Drop Message-ID: <11F1A921-E538-4C00-B432-2FA28452DF0E@ualberta.ca> Recently, Klaus Major wrote: > if i remember correctly Scott Rossi has a "Drag Sample" stack, > which does exactly what you need. > > It works with the "mousemove" message, i think... > > Scott, could you supply an URL for that one? But of course, Klaus. In your message box: go url "http://www.tactilemedia.com/download/drag_sample.rev" And this one is for drag-reordering of a list. go url "http://www.tactilemedia.com/download/getinline.rev" Thank you so much for your samples, but I couldn't download them. If I click on either of the above links I get 404 errors. I tried finding the files through your web interface but was unsuccessful. Can anyone else download them? Perhaps you could email them to me directly? Again, thanks so much. Emilio From emilio at ualberta.ca Thu Jun 2 15:18:58 2005 From: emilio at ualberta.ca (Emilio Gagliardi) Date: Thu, 2 Jun 2005 13:18:58 -0600 Subject: Creating Drag and Drop Message-ID: <12566412-36C1-45E3-9972-ACE7F733BA6E@ualberta.ca> Please disregard last message. I found the download page. Cheers, Emilio From jbondy at sover.net Thu Jun 2 15:19:45 2005 From: jbondy at sover.net (Jon) Date: Thu, 02 Jun 2005 15:19:45 -0400 Subject: progress bars Message-ID: <429F5BD1.1050101@sover.net> I can't find any documentation on Progress Bars. I figure they are some kind of Scroll Bar, but the specific properties of a Progress Bar do not seem to be documented. When I use terms like StartValue and EndValue, they become red, so they must be OK, but when I use the term CurrentValue, it is not red, so it must be wrong. I have no idea what the correct property might be. Jon From mparent at readnaturally.com Thu Jun 2 15:21:15 2005 From: mparent at readnaturally.com (Michael Parent) Date: Thu, 2 Jun 2005 14:21:15 -0500 Subject: table hints In-Reply-To: <429F4995.5010209@sover.net> Message-ID: <1D6B534B0B0BB04999ED232B8DA8A52C042C00@READNATSERVER.readnaturally.local> I used the following to set the columns set the tabStops of field "data" to 80,160,240,320,400,480,560,640,720,800,880,960 set the tabStops of field "cnames" to 80,160,240,320,400,480,560,640,720,800,880,960 Cnames is the column names from a database file, and data was the data field. This is in a script but can also be done in the property inspector of your field under table tabstops Michael Parent -----Original Message----- From: use-revolution-bounces at lists.runrev.com [mailto:use-revolution-bounces at lists.runrev.com] On Behalf Of Jon Sent: Thursday, June 02, 2005 1:02 PM To: Revolution List Subject: table hints Since nobody pointed me to the Table doc requested in an earlier message, here are some specific questions: 1) how can I specify the width of each column, or must they all be the same width? 2) how do I specify the number of rows and columns in the data in the table? By simply filling it with data of the appropriate "shape"? If it is this "simple", why do the tables show additional columns that are "empty"? :) Jon _______________________________________________ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution at lists.runrev.com http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution From jacque at hyperactivesw.com Thu Jun 2 15:20:47 2005 From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay) Date: Thu, 02 Jun 2005 14:20:47 -0500 Subject: player blinking all over the place In-Reply-To: <429F3371.8040107@sover.net> References: <429F3371.8040107@sover.net> Message-ID: <429F5C0F.60403@hyperactivesw.com> On 6/2/05 11:27 AM, Jon wrote: > I put a Player on a main stack. I then put a few tables and a button. > Often when I switch back to the stack, in design mode, the player starts > flickering like mad, and all of Revolution stops responding for a > while. If I switch to another task and back, the Player settles down. > > Any clues as to what is going on, and how I can make the Player settle > down? I'm not sure because I have never seen this behavior (I work mostly on Macs,) but it never hurts to set the alwaysBuffer property of both the stack and the player object to true (called "buffer" in the property inspector, under the Basic Properties pane.) -- Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com From jacque at hyperactivesw.com Thu Jun 2 15:22:48 2005 From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay) Date: Thu, 02 Jun 2005 14:22:48 -0500 Subject: button stops working In-Reply-To: <429F489A.7060402@sover.net> References: <429F489A.7060402@sover.net> Message-ID: <429F5C88.30107@hyperactivesw.com> On 6/2/05 12:57 PM, Jon wrote: > I created a project with a Player and a Button. The button asks the > user to select an audio file and then assigns the file name to the Player. > > The button worked once, but no longer. Nothing I do gets control back > to the script associated with the button. I even made a new button and > copied the script text to the new button's script. I even quit out of > Rev and came back in. Breakpoints don't help: I never reach them. > > Any thoughts as to what I might have done to accidentally disable a > mouseDown event in a script? Could be a lot of things. Can you post your example stack somewhere for us to look at? (The list doesn't allow attachments, you'll need to post it somewhere else. You could use your free Rev user space.) Or post the script of your button? -- Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com From scott at tactilemedia.com Thu Jun 2 15:27:49 2005 From: scott at tactilemedia.com (Scott Rossi) Date: Thu, 02 Jun 2005 12:27:49 -0700 Subject: Creating Drag and Drop In-Reply-To: <11F1A921-E538-4C00-B432-2FA28452DF0E@ualberta.ca> Message-ID: Recently, Emilio Gagliardi wrote: > In your message box: > > go url "http://www.tactilemedia.com/download/drag_sample.rev" > > > And this one is for drag-reordering of a list. > > go url "http://www.tactilemedia.com/download/getinline.rev" > > > Thank you so much for your samples, but I couldn't download them. If > I click on either of the above links I get 404 errors. I tried > finding the files through your web interface but was unsuccessful. > Can anyone else download them? Perhaps you could email them to me > directly? Hi Emilio: Please note the mention of "in your message box" above. This means you should enter the indicated line in your message box, not link to a Web browser. By doing so, the stack opens up directly within Rev -- no browser needed. Regards, Scott Rossi Creative Director Tactile Media, Multimedia & Design ----- E: scott at tactilemedia.com W: http://www.tactilemedia.com From stephenREVOLUTION at barncard.com Thu Jun 2 15:28:04 2005 From: stephenREVOLUTION at barncard.com (Stephen Barncard) Date: Thu, 2 Jun 2005 12:28:04 -0700 Subject: Editable Fields Question In-Reply-To: <331FBB02-1AE6-4D6A-A7AE-9C2B4960222F@mac.com> References: <331FBB02-1AE6-4D6A-A7AE-9C2B4960222F@mac.com> Message-ID: If one has any custom menus created for a stack, one should know that the newly created Edit menu does not have commands assigned automatically - one needs to manually put in the commands for cut and paste (and everything else). The menu editor makes it easy to create the scripts. Getting started early with your menus as you have done is a good idea. At 12:09 PM -0700 6/2/05, Roger Guay wrote: >I have an editable field which I can type into. However, when I try >to copy and paste text using the Command-C and Command-V keys, >nothing happens. I know Can anyone help? > >Thanks, Roger From see3d at writeme.com Thu Jun 2 15:31:25 2005 From: see3d at writeme.com (Dennis Brown) Date: Thu, 02 Jun 2005 15:31:25 -0400 Subject: progress bars In-Reply-To: <429F5BD1.1050101@sover.net> References: <429F5BD1.1050101@sover.net> Message-ID: Jon, Yes it is a scrollbar. You are looking for the thumbPosition. Download the Properties of Objects stack from my user area in revOnline (see3d) for an easy index into the dictionary. Dennis On Jun 2, 2005, at 3:19 PM, Jon wrote: > I can't find any documentation on Progress Bars. I figure they are > some kind of Scroll Bar, but the specific properties of a Progress > Bar do not seem to be documented. When I use terms like StartValue > and EndValue, they become red, so they must be OK, but when I use > the term CurrentValue, it is not red, so it must be wrong. I have > no idea what the correct property might be. > > Jon > _______________________________________________ > use-revolution mailing list > use-revolution at lists.runrev.com > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution > From jbondy at sover.net Thu Jun 2 15:32:47 2005 From: jbondy at sover.net (Jon) Date: Thu, 02 Jun 2005 15:32:47 -0400 Subject: table hints In-Reply-To: <1D6B534B0B0BB04999ED232B8DA8A52C042C00@READNATSERVER.readnaturally.local> References: <1D6B534B0B0BB04999ED232B8DA8A52C042C00@READNATSERVER.readnaturally.local> Message-ID: <429F5EDF.6030605@sover.net> Excellent! I never would have imagined that "tabstops" and "column widths" were the same thing. Thanks! :) Jon Michael Parent wrote: >I used the following to set the columns > > set the tabStops of field "data" to >80,160,240,320,400,480,560,640,720,800,880,960 > set the tabStops of field "cnames" to >80,160,240,320,400,480,560,640,720,800,880,960 > >Cnames is the column names from a database file, and data was the data >field. This is in a script but can also be done in the property >inspector of your field under table tabstops > > >Michael Parent > > > > >-----Original Message----- >From: use-revolution-bounces at lists.runrev.com >[mailto:use-revolution-bounces at lists.runrev.com] On Behalf Of Jon >Sent: Thursday, June 02, 2005 1:02 PM >To: Revolution List >Subject: table hints > > >Since nobody pointed me to the Table doc requested in an earlier >message, here are some specific questions: > >1) how can I specify the width of each column, or must they all be the >same width? >2) how do I specify the number of rows and columns in the data in the >table? By simply filling it with data of the appropriate "shape"? If >it is this "simple", why do the tables show additional columns that are >"empty"? > >:) > >Jon > >_______________________________________________ >use-revolution mailing list >use-revolution at lists.runrev.com >http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution > > > >_______________________________________________ >use-revolution mailing list >use-revolution at lists.runrev.com >http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution > > > > From scott at tactilemedia.com Thu Jun 2 15:34:42 2005 From: scott at tactilemedia.com (Scott Rossi) Date: Thu, 02 Jun 2005 12:34:42 -0700 Subject: player blinking all over the place In-Reply-To: <429F5C0F.60403@hyperactivesw.com> Message-ID: Recently, J. Landman Gay wrote: > I'm not sure because I have never seen this behavior (I work mostly on > Macs,) but it never hurts to set the alwaysBuffer property of both the > stack and the player object to true (called "buffer" in the property > inspector, under the Basic Properties pane.) Actually, you should be wary of enabling the alwaysBuffer property of the player -- setting it to true can sometimes degrade its performance, so be sure to test and make sure playback is acceptable. Regards, Scott Rossi Creative Director Tactile Media, Multimedia & Design ----- E: scott at tactilemedia.com W: http://www.tactilemedia.com From jbondy at sover.net Thu Jun 2 15:36:28 2005 From: jbondy at sover.net (Jon) Date: Thu, 02 Jun 2005 15:36:28 -0400 Subject: button stops working In-Reply-To: <429F5C88.30107@hyperactivesw.com> References: <429F489A.7060402@sover.net> <429F5C88.30107@hyperactivesw.com> Message-ID: <429F5FBC.5090802@sover.net> The non-working button problem went away for a while after I realized that I had some scripts open and edited but not updated/writen/applied/saved. After I fixed that, things were better. For a while. Then the problem appeared again. I Applied/Saved every script I could find. Some of them did not "take": after I saved them, the Apply buttons would go back to black again, spontaneously, as if I had never done the Saves. Eventually I just killed every script editor. Then it REALLY hit the fan. There were LOTS of "do you want to save changes or not" messages, over and over again, as if there were lots of hidden instances of editors and lots of hidden instances of unsaved script text. I got out of Rev and came back in. Some of the bottons still don't work. Rev seems to be pretty buggy to me. Painfully so for a commercial product. Jon J. Landman Gay wrote: > On 6/2/05 12:57 PM, Jon wrote: > >> I created a project with a Player and a Button. The button asks the >> user to select an audio file and then assigns the file name to the >> Player. >> >> The button worked once, but no longer. Nothing I do gets control >> back to the script associated with the button. I even made a new >> button and copied the script text to the new button's script. I even >> quit out of Rev and came back in. Breakpoints don't help: I never >> reach them. >> >> Any thoughts as to what I might have done to accidentally disable a >> mouseDown event in a script? > > > Could be a lot of things. Can you post your example stack somewhere > for us to look at? (The list doesn't allow attachments, you'll need to > post it somewhere else. You could use your free Rev user space.) Or > post the script of your button? > From mparent at readnaturally.com Thu Jun 2 15:37:26 2005 From: mparent at readnaturally.com (Michael Parent) Date: Thu, 2 Jun 2005 14:37:26 -0500 Subject: table hints In-Reply-To: <429F5EDF.6030605@sover.net> Message-ID: <1D6B534B0B0BB04999ED232B8DA8A52C042C03@READNATSERVER.readnaturally.local> Your welcome, took me awhile to understand that also Michael Parent Read Naturally 1-800-788-4085 -----Original Message----- From: use-revolution-bounces at lists.runrev.com [mailto:use-revolution-bounces at lists.runrev.com] On Behalf Of Jon Sent: Thursday, June 02, 2005 2:33 PM To: How to use Revolution Subject: Re: table hints Excellent! I never would have imagined that "tabstops" and "column widths" were the same thing. Thanks! :) Jon Michael Parent wrote: >I used the following to set the columns > > set the tabStops of field "data" to >80,160,240,320,400,480,560,640,720,800,880,960 > set the tabStops of field "cnames" to >80,160,240,320,400,480,560,640,720,800,880,960 > >Cnames is the column names from a database file, and data was the data >field. This is in a script but can also be done in the property >inspector of your field under table tabstops > > >Michael Parent > > > > >-----Original Message----- >From: use-revolution-bounces at lists.runrev.com >[mailto:use-revolution-bounces at lists.runrev.com] On Behalf Of Jon >Sent: Thursday, June 02, 2005 1:02 PM >To: Revolution List >Subject: table hints > > >Since nobody pointed me to the Table doc requested in an earlier >message, here are some specific questions: > >1) how can I specify the width of each column, or must they all be the >same width? >2) how do I specify the number of rows and columns in the data in the >table? By simply filling it with data of the appropriate "shape"? If >it is this "simple", why do the tables show additional columns that are >"empty"? > >:) > >Jon > >_______________________________________________ >use-revolution mailing list >use-revolution at lists.runrev.com >http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution > > > >_______________________________________________ >use-revolution mailing list >use-revolution at lists.runrev.com >http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution > > > > _______________________________________________ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution at lists.runrev.com http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution From mwieder at ahsoftware.net Thu Jun 2 15:39:46 2005 From: mwieder at ahsoftware.net (Mark Wieder) Date: Thu, 2 Jun 2005 12:39:46 -0700 Subject: resizeable stacks In-Reply-To: <429F55E8.50103@fourthworld.com> References: <429E3626.40906@sover.net> <429E36F4.4060704@fourthworld.com> <429E376C.5050404@sover.net> <429E3CD1.40609@fourthworld.com> <429E3DBD.9010104@sover.net> <429E4196.6010408@fourthworld.com> <429E50D8.5030505@sover.net> <676877459.20050602094940@ahsoftware.net> <4112939616.20050602113042@ahsoftware.net> <429F55E8.50103@fourthworld.com> Message-ID: <10217082743.20050602123946@ahsoftware.net> Richard- Thursday, June 2, 2005, 11:54:32 AM, you wrote: RG> My strategy thus far is to participate in "mob voting": since it's not Unfortunately, so does the rest of the US. -- -Mark Wieder mwieder at ahsoftware.net From jbondy at sover.net Thu Jun 2 15:45:18 2005 From: jbondy at sover.net (Jon) Date: Thu, 02 Jun 2005 15:45:18 -0400 Subject: button stops working In-Reply-To: <429F5C88.30107@hyperactivesw.com> References: <429F489A.7060402@sover.net> <429F5C88.30107@hyperactivesw.com> Message-ID: <429F61CE.9070505@sover.net> The stack is at www.jonbondy.com/jlblooper.rev. At the moment there are four buttons: open, open2, play, and stop. I think Stop works. The others do not. I'm developing on a Win XP system, so telling me that it works fine on a Mac or under Linux will be interesting but perhaps not helpful. :) Jon J. Landman Gay wrote: > On 6/2/05 12:57 PM, Jon wrote: > >> I created a project with a Player and a Button. The button asks the >> user to select an audio file and then assigns the file name to the >> Player. >> >> The button worked once, but no longer. Nothing I do gets control >> back to the script associated with the button. I even made a new >> button and copied the script text to the new button's script. I even >> quit out of Rev and came back in. Breakpoints don't help: I never >> reach them. >> >> Any thoughts as to what I might have done to accidentally disable a >> mouseDown event in a script? > > > Could be a lot of things. Can you post your example stack somewhere > for us to look at? (The list doesn't allow attachments, you'll need to > post it somewhere else. You could use your free Rev user space.) Or > post the script of your button? > From b.xavier at internet.lu Thu Jun 2 15:49:46 2005 From: b.xavier at internet.lu (MisterX) Date: Thu, 2 Jun 2005 21:49:46 +0200 Subject: transactional threading in xtalk - the game Message-ID: <20050602190652.35620930394@mail.runrev.com> Game challenges are nice, they teach you something (i wrote a game and only one person gave a crap despite it's educational and practical value for ANY age! OK, no prob ;) so since we're all professionals here, im more inclined towards suggesting a practical threading model... The threading is not the problem... it's the transactional queuing and reporting that is interesting... The same "game model" applies to many many applications - waiting cabinets, post/mail-sending, delayed update synchronizations, cache cleaning, etc... The threading transaction script is the following: -- The bartending example just used in memory to the old thinkC OOP class/event model ;) -- i dare not say here which was the first C compiler i used! on bartender customerObj send "MakeDrink" &&CustomerObj to me in GetQueueTime(me) on taskdoer on MakeDrink obj get ObjectBestCandidateDrink(obj) if is it empty then send "ask \"Drink Sir\" to" obj put MakeDrink(obj) into drinkObj ServeDrink drinkObj StartTwoBitChatWith Obj end MakeDrink -- end of script Now, this will surely thread-whizz a few drinks on the bar's tabletop nicely given few clients without "in GetQueueTime(me)" question... But if it's friday night and you have to serve both drinks, chips bowls, clean dishes, check drink stock + order disminishing fast, do checks, collect and account checks, you see that it gets quite different - and more down to earth than just a game... The barSim game in Rev, why not? OK, What if even with just drink making, you get many clients more than one drink... It gets crowded on weekends, how do you prepare? The best GetQueueTime() function wins no matter how many clients and drinks are thrown at the bartender... What if we have more than one bartender (move the request drink script to the bar group holding the bartender buttons... You can generalize or individualize the bartender scripts as you wish naturally ;) Seen the AI article on Wired? http://www.wired.com/news/culture/0,1284,67659,00.html Cool! But hey, IT industry is kind of sterile now and it's time to wake up the industry to RunRev... Can RunRev do threading? No, I do have a working solution though. Of course, no one will listen but it's part of the strategy to overturn the IT empires with TAOO ;) If this script is well optimized we have a better chance at making Real time simulators or RPG/FPS games in RunRev too. maillist perenial netTip: Here's how to make time-synchronized events in RunRev - however there's no guarantee that the event will happen at the right time if another even is running (grrr). But with the right queuing, we can make it work... We do have more processing power than old mainframes PDP11 dont we? Send "drawyourself" to thisgraphic in 40 milliseconds -- 40 ms = 25 FPS frames per second = video - 80 = 12 FPS is animation quality. Would a binary-easy number work better? OK, so now, how do you schedule it all? And have enough "send" bandwidth? We can make this into a cool game too later... But the real benefits is that you can thread anything. This also works for web site client serving btw... Tip: while there are polynomial ways of doing this kind of optimization, RunRev's speed of calculation in matrices or arrays prohibits this (though it helps compared to hypercard times ;) - There is simpler geometric way... I've been sitting on this one for about 9 years but it's the clustering event model in TAOO which im proud to describe here - as i read on a sig today - information is only of value if it is shared... How true... Any Game Theory adepts in the list? cheers from Lulucity Xavier From b.xavier at internet.lu Thu Jun 2 16:06:35 2005 From: b.xavier at internet.lu (MisterX) Date: Thu, 2 Jun 2005 22:06:35 +0200 Subject: Shell command doesn't give feedback until done In-Reply-To: <690f8e9263fd9de6df434867b764e7fb@swcp.com> Message-ID: <20050602192338.9AFE89302C4@mail.runrev.com> Dar, anyone... use get shell("start cmd "mycommand > mylogfilepath.log" ) you get either an error or nothing (no news, good news) but no wait. I think it's even posted in the revdocs that way... if only webnotes (revonline webnotes news and webnotes of the day Rev?) would work... Then if you mycommand is returning output to the shell it will be outputed to the mylogfilepath.log (either in bulk or bit by bit. Try to open the file for reading only or it may fail otherwise). You can also use dynamic paths in dos so file locking can also be dealt with. > is a pipe (same as unix). This writes the shell output to a file or port. To append to an existing file use >> instead of erasing and creating a new one with > If you want more, get the microsoft resource kit for your system to get more information about how each command can do work for you more efficiently. Look it up in the windows help it will help. cheers Xavier http://monsieurx.com - we have shell tools too ;) > -----Original Message----- > From: use-revolution-bounces at lists.runrev.com > [mailto:use-revolution-bounces at lists.runrev.com] On Behalf Of > Dar Scott > Sent: Thursday, June 02, 2005 19:35 > To: How to use Revolution > Subject: Re: Shell command doesn't give feedback until done > > > On Jun 2, 2005, at 11:25 AM, Bill Vlahos wrote: > > > I am using this command: put shell(command()) into field "status" > > which works. > > > The shell command could take a long time to run and it returns > > informational feedback during the process which would be good to > > display to the user. > > On Windows you might be able to use 'open process', but some > time ago I found it bug ridden and not suitable for what I > was doing. In some special case it might work. > > On OS X you might be able to do something with Terminal and > AppleScript. > > If you can spin off the process and redirect the output to a > file, you might be able to monitor the file or the directory > of the file. > > Dar > -- > ********************************************** > DSC (Dar Scott Consulting & Dar's Lab) > http://www.swcp.com/dsc/ > See you at RevCon West '05 > ********************************************** > > _______________________________________________ > use-revolution mailing list > use-revolution at lists.runrev.com > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution > From b.xavier at internet.lu Thu Jun 2 16:11:43 2005 From: b.xavier at internet.lu (MisterX) Date: Thu, 2 Jun 2005 22:11:43 +0200 Subject: About Piracy but not about the guy... In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20050602192848.7952B9302C4@mail.runrev.com> Judy, Obviously you didn't read the documentation's explanation regarding that. Awesome GUI... It can be scripted even - i think also there's automotive industry usage but unconfirmed - yet "capable"... Made for working in 3d... But definitely not productive for casual work. As a lefty and a freehand graphic-gui freek - i gave it up too - too modal - it was easier to learn playing piano with two hands! Any other excellent 3D packages after Alejandro's Rev3D ? ;)) cheers Xavier > -----Original Message----- > From: use-revolution-bounces at lists.runrev.com > [mailto:use-revolution-bounces at lists.runrev.com] On Behalf Of > Judy Perry > Sent: Thursday, June 02, 2005 19:54 > To: How to use Revolution > Subject: Re: About Piracy but not about the guy... > > Hey, if you can figure it out, can you clue me in? > > I spent about 15 very frustrated minutes with it and couldn't > figure out what to do with it! > > Judy > > On Thu, 2 Jun 2005, Alejandro Tejada wrote: > > > Ben, here are plenty free downloable software: > > > > > > I hope to find the time to learn Blender, someday. > > _______________________________________________ > use-revolution mailing list > use-revolution at lists.runrev.com > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution > From dsc at swcp.com Thu Jun 2 16:28:00 2005 From: dsc at swcp.com (Dar Scott) Date: Thu, 2 Jun 2005 14:28:00 -0600 Subject: Shell command doesn't give feedback until done In-Reply-To: <20050602192338.9AFE89302C4@mail.runrev.com> References: <20050602192338.9AFE89302C4@mail.runrev.com> Message-ID: On Jun 2, 2005, at 2:06 PM, MisterX wrote: > use get shell("start cmd "mycommand > mylogfilepath.log" ) > you get either an error or nothing (no news, good news) ... > Then if you mycommand is returning output to the shell it will be > outputed to the mylogfilepath.log (either in bulk or bit by bit. > Try to open the file for reading only or it may fail otherwise). I am aware of this, but didn't put it as well in my description. I think that is probably what Bill wants. Do you know how to do that in OS X? I tried some variations on shell punctuation, but that didn't work for me. > You can also use dynamic paths in dos so file locking can also be dealt > with. I don't understand what you mean by this. -- ********************************************** DSC (Dar Scott Consulting & Dar's Lab) http://www.swcp.com/dsc/ Programming and software ********************************************** From revolution at jaedworks.com Thu Jun 2 16:17:25 2005 From: revolution at jaedworks.com (Jeanne A. E. DeVoto) Date: Thu, 2 Jun 2005 13:17:25 -0700 Subject: Find numeric ? Help needed ! In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: At 2:31 PM +0200 6/2/2005, Kresten Bjerg wrote: >I have tried find, find string, find case-sensitive but the same errors >- and the same successes ( app. 50%) -persist. All documentation on >find refers to text, nowhere do I find reference to digits/ numbers. I >know that SORT has a numeric mode, but why is there no FIND numeric ? Well, numbers are strings in Transcript - a number in a field is no different from any other string - so there shouldn't be any problem with numbers or any need for a special numeric mode. I agree with the person who asked for an example of a search that is failing. -- jeanne a. e. devoto ~ revolution at jaedworks.com http://www.jaedworks.com From revolution at jaedworks.com Thu Jun 2 16:15:29 2005 From: revolution at jaedworks.com (Jeanne A. E. DeVoto) Date: Thu, 2 Jun 2005 13:15:29 -0700 Subject: How do I script for the effect of menu item "Reshape Graphic" In-Reply-To: References: <20050602104002.EA1F89302B8@mail.runrev.com> Message-ID: At 6:42 AM -0700 6/2/2005, Jim Hurley wrote: >>The dynamic part of what "Reshape graphic" does (allowing you to drag >>the marker points around to reshape the polygon) is kind of >>complicated. Probably the best thing to do is take a look at the >>script. > >I would like to see how RR does this but I have forgotten how to >peek at a RR menu script. Could you refresh my memory? The easiest way is just edit script of menu "Object" although you can also use the equivalent edit script of button "object" of the defaultMenubar which works, for example, if you have a stack frontmost that has its own menu bar. The case section for Reshape Graphic has insert script of btn "revReshape" of cd 1 of stack "revLibrary" into front so you'll also want to do edit script of btn "revReshape" of cd 1 of stack "revLibrary" (basically this part is what handles the actual dragging and reshaping of the graphic). -- jeanne a. e. devoto ~ revolution at jaedworks.com http://www.jaedworks.com From revolution at jaedworks.com Thu Jun 2 16:32:44 2005 From: revolution at jaedworks.com (Jeanne A. E. DeVoto) Date: Thu, 2 Jun 2005 13:32:44 -0700 Subject: progress bars In-Reply-To: <429F5BD1.1050101@sover.net> References: <429F5BD1.1050101@sover.net> Message-ID: At 3:19 PM -0400 6/2/2005, Jon wrote: >I can't find any documentation on Progress Bars. I figure they are >some kind of Scroll Bar, but the specific properties of a Progress >Bar do not seem to be documented. When I use terms like StartValue >and EndValue, they become red, so they must be OK, but when I use >the term CurrentValue, it is not red, so it must be wrong. I have >no idea what the correct property might be. Progress bars are scrollbars whose style property is set to "progress". You set a scrollbar's current position with the thumbPosition. So for example if you want a progress bar with 100 increments, and you want to set it to show the task is half done, you'd do set the startValue of scrollbar "Progress" to zero set the endValue of scrollbar "Progress" to 100 set the thumbPosition of scrollbar "Progress" to 50 -- jeanne a. e. devoto ~ revolution at jaedworks.com http://www.jaedworks.com From briany at qldlearning.com Thu Jun 2 16:37:21 2005 From: briany at qldlearning.com (Brian Yennie) Date: Thu, 2 Jun 2005 13:37:21 -0700 Subject: Shell command doesn't give feedback until done In-Reply-To: References: <20050602192338.9AFE89302C4@mail.runrev.com> Message-ID: Dar, > I am aware of this, but didn't put it as well in my description. I > think that is probably what Bill wants. > > Do you know how to do that in OS X? I tried some variations on shell > punctuation, but that didn't work for me. On OS X you should be able to just do: get shell("mycommand > mylogfile.log") Note that if "mycommand" is not installed in one of your binary paths, you'll need to give the path to it: get shell("/Users/yennie/mycommand > mylogfile.log") get shell("./mycommand > mylogfile.log") etc. HTH, Brian From b.xavier at internet.lu Thu Jun 2 16:39:27 2005 From: b.xavier at internet.lu (MisterX) Date: Thu, 2 Jun 2005 22:39:27 +0200 Subject: Shell command doesn't give feedback until done In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20050602195629.B24A29303A3@mail.runrev.com> > Do you know how to do that in OS X? I tried some variations > on shell punctuation, but that didn't work for me. like i said, use the pipe operator. must be in... if it's not '>' then i dont know what it is... you know how apple thinks differently sometimes... ;) > > You can also use dynamic paths in dos so file locking can also be > > dealt with. > > I don't understand what you mean by this. i dont know about unix... but in dos you can do for loops and set a variable to something (it's horrible actually compared to xtalk) but so you can assign different names to files or folders you'd treat within a for loop... it's hardly basic and it's ugly - horrible to learn but does wonders when you know how to use it... otherwise, stick to rev! preferable! cheers Xavier > -- > ********************************************** > DSC (Dar Scott Consulting & Dar's Lab) > http://www.swcp.com/dsc/ > Programming and software > ********************************************** > > _______________________________________________ > use-revolution mailing list > use-revolution at lists.runrev.com > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution > From see3d at writeme.com Thu Jun 2 16:45:42 2005 From: see3d at writeme.com (Dennis Brown) Date: Thu, 02 Jun 2005 16:45:42 -0400 Subject: Find numeric ? Help needed ! In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: The only other thing to consider is that the number will be converted to a string which may suppress leading or trailing zeros in a number that can affect a string type search as opposed to a numerical comparison. Dennis On Jun 2, 2005, at 4:17 PM, Jeanne A. E. DeVoto wrote: > At 2:31 PM +0200 6/2/2005, Kresten Bjerg wrote: > >> I have tried find, find string, find case-sensitive but the same >> errors >> - and the same successes ( app. 50%) -persist. All documentation on >> find refers to text, nowhere do I find reference to digits/ >> numbers. I >> know that SORT has a numeric mode, but why is there no FIND numeric ? >> > > Well, numbers are strings in Transcript - a number in a field is no > different from any other string - so there shouldn't be any problem > with numbers or any need for a special numeric mode. I agree with > the person who asked for an example of a search that is failing. > -- > jeanne a. e. devoto ~ revolution at jaedworks.com > http://www.jaedworks.com > _______________________________________________ > use-revolution mailing list > use-revolution at lists.runrev.com > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution > From stephenREVOLUTION at barncard.com Thu Jun 2 16:45:43 2005 From: stephenREVOLUTION at barncard.com (Stephen Barncard) Date: Thu, 2 Jun 2005 13:45:43 -0700 Subject: Find numeric ? Help needed ! In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Actually there ARE problems with finding numbers formatted differently. I just ran into this problem with a database. If you are searching for "22" in a listing that has a number formatted "00022" one has to modify the search terms accordingly, or set the numberformat of the search string to match the expected format in the list. This method still expects consistency in the listing or the search term. I chose the latter of setting the numberformat of the search string because my data source, the SQL database, had been formatted long ago, in a HC stack. It works perfectly now. At 1:17 PM -0700 6/2/05, Jeanne A. E. DeVoto wrote: > >Well, numbers are strings in Transcript - a number in a field is no >different from any other string - so there shouldn't be any problem >with numbers or any need for a special numeric mode. I agree with >the person who asked for an example of a search that is failing. >-- >jeanne a. e. devoto ~ revolution at jaedworks.com >http://www.jaedworks.com From troy at rpsystems.net Thu Jun 2 16:47:34 2005 From: troy at rpsystems.net (Troy Rollins) Date: Thu, 2 Jun 2005 16:47:34 -0400 Subject: About Piracy but not about the guy... In-Reply-To: <20050602192848.7952B9302C4@mail.runrev.com> References: <20050602192848.7952B9302C4@mail.runrev.com> Message-ID: On Jun 2, 2005, at 4:11 PM, MisterX wrote: > Any other excellent 3D packages after Alejandro's Rev3D ? ;)) Lightwave 8.3? I learned Blender. It is great for free, but pales against the polish and features of the commercial tools. -- Troy RPSystems, Ltd. http://www.rpsystems.net From jacque at hyperactivesw.com Thu Jun 2 16:46:40 2005 From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay) Date: Thu, 02 Jun 2005 15:46:40 -0500 Subject: button stops working In-Reply-To: <429F61CE.9070505@sover.net> References: <429F489A.7060402@sover.net> <429F5C88.30107@hyperactivesw.com> <429F61CE.9070505@sover.net> Message-ID: <429F7030.8090504@hyperactivesw.com> On 6/2/05 2:45 PM, Jon wrote: > The stack is at www.jonbondy.com/jlblooper.rev. At the moment there are > four buttons: open, open2, play, and stop. I think Stop works. The > others do not. I'm developing on a Win XP system, so telling me that it > works fine on a Mac or under Linux will be interesting but perhaps not > helpful. I took a look. I don't see any mouseDown handlers, only mouseUp (which is what is generally used in buttons, so you are correct to do that.) Most of your mouseUp handlers have breakpoints set at the first line of code, so that is why they are stopping, probably. Use the buttons at the bottom of the script to either abort or continue running the scripts. Or remove the breakpoints. Until you get used to it, it is probably a good idea to apply the script before opening very many others. Knowing that a script is applied and functional can help track down problems. If a script isn't applied/saved, the old version will run instead of the one you have just edited, and your breakpoints won't be pointing to the lines you think they point to. That may also be why you didn't think there were breakpoints set. A couple of other things I noticed: set the Value of the scrolLBar "ProgressBar" to the currentTime of player "Player" This won't work; "value" is a function which evaluates its parameters and returns the result. For example, "value(22+6)" will return 28. What you want here is: set the thumbPosition of scrollbar "progressbar" to the currenttime of player "player" Same for the line in the stack script: set the currentValue of the scrolLBar "ProgressBar" to ct should be "thumbPosition" (or for short, "thumbpos".) Another: Play player "Player" The "play" command is used for pre-recorded sound files, like .wav files and such, and doesn't require or use a player object. The "play" command lets you directly play many types of sound files, either from files on disk or imported into the stack, without using any containing object at all. If you want to control a player object (which is required for mp3 files,) you need this command instead: start player "player" The "set the tracks" line in one of your buttons is superfluous. This property is read-only. You did a good job setting object properties throughout. You learn fast. Nice start, and pretty good for only being at this for a couple of days. The initial learning curve is the hardest part. There is a certain critical mass of info you have to have before it all falls into place, and that is the most frustrating time. After that, it suddenly starts to make sense. There is a certain "eureka" moment, after which everything gets much easier. -- Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com From klaus at major-k.de Thu Jun 2 16:50:04 2005 From: klaus at major-k.de (Klaus Major) Date: Thu, 2 Jun 2005 22:50:04 +0200 Subject: progress bars In-Reply-To: <429F5BD1.1050101@sover.net> References: <429F5BD1.1050101@sover.net> Message-ID: <8B8C6E55-0AF6-4A9A-8306-45E24B9A3279@major-k.de> Hi Jon, > I can't find any documentation on Progress Bars. I figure they are > some kind of Scroll Bar, but the specific properties of a Progress > Bar do not seem to be documented. When I use terms like StartValue > and EndValue, they become red, so they must be OK, but when I use > the term CurrentValue, it is not red, so it must be wrong. I have > no idea what the correct property might be. go here: http://support.runrev.com/scriptingconferences/ and download my stack about controls. There is a section about scrollbars, which isn't too bad ;-) > Jon Regards Klaus Major klaus at major-k.de http://www.major-k.de From jacque at hyperactivesw.com Thu Jun 2 16:54:09 2005 From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay) Date: Thu, 02 Jun 2005 15:54:09 -0500 Subject: button stops working In-Reply-To: <429F5FBC.5090802@sover.net> References: <429F489A.7060402@sover.net> <429F5C88.30107@hyperactivesw.com> <429F5FBC.5090802@sover.net> Message-ID: <429F71F1.7060507@hyperactivesw.com> On 6/2/05 2:36 PM, Jon wrote: > I Applied/Saved every script I could > find. Some of them did not "take": after I saved them, the Apply > buttons would go back to black again, spontaneously, as if I had never > done the Saves. This is probably because there were compile errors and the script couldn't be applied or saved. Check for an error dialog window when that happens, which will tell you what the problem is. If you have many script windows open, you may have missed it. The error initially is displayed on top of everything else, but it is possible to click on another window while it is open and it will get pushed into the background. > Eventually I just killed every script editor. Then it REALLY hit the > fan. Yeah. Most of the buttons I looked at had at least one compile error. So, not surprising. > There were LOTS of "do you want to save changes or not" messages, > over and over again, as if there were lots of hidden instances of > editors and lots of hidden instances of unsaved script text. Probably that was indeed the case. If you try to apply a script containing an error, it won't compile and it won't save. Every time you try to close the editor, you'll get the same dialog again until the script is fixed. It was probably asking you about the same script repeatedly. > I got out > of Rev and came back in. Some of the bottons still don't work. > > Rev seems to be pretty buggy to me. Painfully so for a commercial product. So far, it sounds like it is doing what it is supposed to. If you have a script you cannot fix at the moment, just comment out the handlers (select the lines and use the "Comment" feature in the Script menu.) That will allow you to save the script and close the editor. You can go back later, uncomment the script, and fix it when you have it figured out. -- Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com From chipp at chipp.com Thu Jun 2 17:00:15 2005 From: chipp at chipp.com (Chipp Walters) Date: Thu, 02 Jun 2005 16:00:15 -0500 Subject: Shell command doesn't give feedback until done In-Reply-To: <20050602192338.9AFE89302C4@mail.runrev.com> References: <20050602192338.9AFE89302C4@mail.runrev.com> Message-ID: <429F735F.5010305@chipp.com> X, This windows tip is a great one! Ken should put it in his sonsothunder website! For those of you who have come lately, what Xavier has done is shown us how to use 'shell' in a non-blocking fashion. From what I gather, the below hack will shell out, then return instantly control to the object. I suspect as long as 'hideconsolewindows' is true, you would never see any of it. Cool. MisterX wrote: > use get shell("start cmd "mycommand > mylogfilepath.log" ) > you get either an error or nothing (no news, good news) From irog at mac.com Thu Jun 2 17:15:14 2005 From: irog at mac.com (Roger Guay) Date: Thu, 2 Jun 2005 14:15:14 -0700 Subject: Editable Fields Question In-Reply-To: <20050602195358.7A1849303B8@mail.runrev.com> References: <20050602195358.7A1849303B8@mail.runrev.com> Message-ID: I do have an "edit" custom menu and I have set the manual command keys in the menu builder. I have also check to insure the scripts are good. Here's what's happening: The command key shortcuts do NOT work. However, it DOES work to select cut,copy, paste from the custom menu. What the heck is this about?? Thanks very much for your help, Roger On Jun 2, 2005, at 12:53 PM, use-revolution-request at lists.runrev.com wrote: > Message: 6 > Date: Thu, 2 Jun 2005 12:28:04 -0700 > From: Stephen Barncard > Subject: Re: Editable Fields Question > To: How to use Revolution > Message-ID: > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" > > If one has any custom menus created for a stack, one should know that > the newly created Edit menu does not have commands assigned > automatically - one needs to manually put in the commands for cut and > paste (and everything else). The menu editor makes it easy to create > the scripts. > > Getting started early with your menus as you have done is a good idea. > > At 12:09 PM -0700 6/2/05, Roger Guay wrote: > >> I have an editable field which I can type into. However, when I try >> to copy and paste text using the Command-C and Command-V keys, >> nothing happens. I know Can anyone help? >> >> Thanks, Roger >> > > ------------------------------ > From Cubist at aol.com Thu Jun 2 17:16:51 2005 From: Cubist at aol.com (Cubist at aol.com) Date: Thu, 2 Jun 2005 17:16:51 EDT Subject: Threaded anim GIFs? Message-ID: <1ee.3cedd997.2fd0d143@aol.com> sez ambassador at fourthworld.com: >I've noticed that animated GIFs only animate while the engine is idle -- >anyone know a trick to get them to continue animating while the engine >is busy with a script? > >I'd like to use an anim GIF as part of a progress dialog, but I imagine >the engine could do a more efficient job than my scripts of changing >frames if there was a built-in capability of doing so without having to >explicitely tell it each time. Stupid question: Is there any reason that something in this neighborhood would be unsuitable to your purpose? on AnimGif FrameNum if FrameNum = "" then put 1 into FrameNum set the frame of img "Fred" to FrameNum put 1 + (FrameNum mod (the number of frames in img "Fred")) into FrameNum send ("AnimGif" && FrameNum) to me in 100 milliseconds end AnimGif From dsc at swcp.com Thu Jun 2 17:20:32 2005 From: dsc at swcp.com (Dar Scott) Date: Thu, 2 Jun 2005 15:20:32 -0600 Subject: Shell command doesn't give feedback until done In-Reply-To: References: <20050602192338.9AFE89302C4@mail.runrev.com> Message-ID: <9e5853c75001055f3598b00ecef16ac5@swcp.com> On Jun 2, 2005, at 2:37 PM, Brian Yennie wrote: >> Do you know how to do that in OS X? I tried some variations on shell >> punctuation, but that didn't work for me. > > On OS X you should be able to just do: > > get shell("mycommand > mylogfile.log") But that still won't return until mycommand is finished. The advantage of "start" in Windows is that you can use it to spin off another app or even another shell. I have some vague memory of using some fancy punctuation in some unix shells to start a process but not wait until it finishes, but that must have been over a month ago, because I can't remember how that goes. I have a book here that might help, if I remember where I put it. In any case, I wasn't able to do what I wanted with shell(), that is, to have shell() return right away. Hmmm. I may have been working with pipes and that complicated what I was doing. I now use an external. Dar -- ********************************************** DSC (Dar Scott Consulting & Dar's Lab) http://www.swcp.com/dsc/ Yahoo! RevCon West in two weeks! ********************************************** From ambassador at fourthworld.com Thu Jun 2 17:22:41 2005 From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin) Date: Thu, 02 Jun 2005 14:22:41 -0700 Subject: Threaded anim GIFs? In-Reply-To: <1ee.3cedd997.2fd0d143@aol.com> References: <1ee.3cedd997.2fd0d143@aol.com> Message-ID: <429F78A1.6090508@fourthworld.com> Cubist at aol.com wrote: > sez ambassador at fourthworld.com: > >>I've noticed that animated GIFs only animate while the engine is idle -- >>anyone know a trick to get them to continue animating while the engine >>is busy with a script? >> >>I'd like to use an anim GIF as part of a progress dialog, but I imagine >>the engine could do a more efficient job than my scripts of changing >>frames if there was a built-in capability of doing so without having to >>explicitely tell it each time. > > Stupid question: Is there any reason that something in this neighborhood > would be unsuitable to your purpose? > > on AnimGif FrameNum > if FrameNum = "" then put 1 into FrameNum > set the frame of img "Fred" to FrameNum > put 1 + (FrameNum mod (the number of frames in img "Fred")) into FrameNum > send ("AnimGif" && FrameNum) to me in 100 milliseconds > end AnimGif When used in a repeat loop, the "send" will never be received until after the loop is done. I can call it inside the loop, but it's just overhead compared to the greater efficiency of Trevor's request to have it in the engine. When used outside of a repeat loop it'll work okay, but if we have 50 or 100 such GIFs (think games) it'll bog down relative to what the engine could do for us. -- Richard Gaskin Fourth World Media Corporation __________________________________________________ Rev tools and more: http://www.fourthworld.com/rev From briany at qldlearning.com Thu Jun 2 17:23:08 2005 From: briany at qldlearning.com (Brian Yennie) Date: Thu, 2 Jun 2005 14:23:08 -0700 Subject: Shell command doesn't give feedback until done In-Reply-To: <9e5853c75001055f3598b00ecef16ac5@swcp.com> References: <20050602192338.9AFE89302C4@mail.runrev.com> <9e5853c75001055f3598b00ecef16ac5@swcp.com> Message-ID: <689d5646958dcd09bc589f2d36847959@qldlearning.com> Agh, sorry- I obviously missed the point of the thread. Add an ampersand after your command: get shell("mycommand > mylogfile.log &") Voila, a "backgrounded" process that returns immediately. HTH, Brian > But that still won't return until mycommand is finished. The > advantage of "start" in Windows is that you can use it to spin off > another app or even another shell. > > I have some vague memory of using some fancy punctuation in some unix > shells to start a process but not wait until it finishes, but that > must have been over a month ago, because I can't remember how that > goes. I have a book here that might help, if I remember where I put > it. In any case, I wasn't able to do what I wanted with shell(), that > is, to have shell() return right away. Hmmm. I may have been working > with pipes and that complicated what I was doing. I now use an > external. From b.xavier at internet.lu Thu Jun 2 17:23:59 2005 From: b.xavier at internet.lu (MisterX) Date: Thu, 2 Jun 2005 23:23:59 +0200 Subject: Property Table Type Doc Index for all entries In-Reply-To: <160652A6-9257-4F72-B8C4-48BB6306E04D@writeme.com> Message-ID: <20050602204101.54F05930332@mail.runrev.com> > Any other thoughts about the utility of this or other ideas? > Dennis Yes, one thought. Please take no offense! Again, this is not a rant... Just another repeat of a message i've been trying to carry through out first the hypercard then the metacard and finally the RUnrev community. Because what you said is how TAOO will present information to you - actually how it has for over a decade... Autonaming, auto hiliting, autoformating, auto correcting, auto remembering my settings, etc... That's interesting in terms of work flow isn't it? Rev wasn't interested in my ideas nor many others in the lists - a few were be never tagged along - wait and see - i probably would have done the same ;), despite the many examples which i littered over my website or in this maillist but so be it... I try again... So here's an example of a typical TAOO ebook that's actually the taoo documentation: http://www.monsieurx.com/modules.php?name=News&file=article&sid=166 This is an autonomous taoo object application representing different views per objects. The keywords and objects do the respective linking to corresponding records in the database (or related databases - dabases = stacks or files or dbs) - there's also a possibility of auto and static link view with multi-format previews/editors and many more and more that can be embedded in with just a simple copy paste... Does that make sense? What does make sense since HyperCard is that this is the best way to "information at your fingertips" and the hallmark of hyperText navigation as i've used and reused and evolved and improved over 15 years... The GUI has been a secondary concern naturally... A working model a priority. Now, i have this and in an even more modular way than in HyperCard times - like a hyperwarp ;) I said autonomous because this application normally would not carry any GUI/control scripts at all... Just copy paste parts - avoid pasting scripts - too much maintenance later! There's a kernel behind it to which anyone could really contribute in favor of everyone - do i need to explain the implications? cheers Xavier From b.xavier at internet.lu Thu Jun 2 17:23:59 2005 From: b.xavier at internet.lu (MisterX) Date: Thu, 2 Jun 2005 23:23:59 +0200 Subject: No subject In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20050602204101.5A2189303D1@mail.runrev.com> No, the good thing is that someone talking about piracy to a list of developers (who like to be rewarded for their hard work) is just a incredible show idiot power! X > -----Original Message----- > From: use-revolution-bounces at lists.runrev.com > [mailto:use-revolution-bounces at lists.runrev.com] On Behalf Of > Roger.E.Eller at sealedair.com > Sent: Thursday, June 02, 2005 15:29 > To: How to use Revolution > Subject: Re: > > On 6/1/05 at 11:56 PM Judy Perry wrote: > > It's not clear to me that this individual has posted anything of > > substance. Really, all he's done, is trolling flamebaiting. > > Well, indirectly or maybe even directly, he has challenged > the capability to efficiently program a simple clock in > Revolution. That entire thread has been very enlightening and > inspiring. Just seeing the code masters meet the challenge > was wonderful. Ben (the pirate) even responded with awe and > amazement. I'm just 'trying" to see something good in > everyone here folks. For the record, I agree that his > encouragement of piracy should be dealt with. And that is why > the list has a moderator, right? > > Roger Eller > > _______________________________________________ > use-revolution mailing list > use-revolution at lists.runrev.com > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution > From mwieder at ahsoftware.net Thu Jun 2 17:24:59 2005 From: mwieder at ahsoftware.net (Mark Wieder) Date: Thu, 2 Jun 2005 14:24:59 -0700 Subject: button stops working In-Reply-To: <429F61CE.9070505@sover.net> References: <429F489A.7060402@sover.net> <429F5C88.30107@hyperactivesw.com> <429F61CE.9070505@sover.net> Message-ID: <14923396161.20050602142459@ahsoftware.net> Jon- Thursday, June 2, 2005, 12:45:18 PM, you wrote: On loading the stack I get an immediate error in button "Playbutton". You don't need or want "the" in front of the word "scrollBar", in the same way that you don't want or need it in front of "player". ScrollBar is an object type in xtalk. set the Value of the scrollBar "ProgressBar" to the currentTime of player "Player" set the Value of scrollBar "ProgressBar" to the currentTime of player "Player" Also, "Value" should be "currentValue". And I assume by the line call trackPlayer you're trying to execute the handler named "trackPlayer". In that case trackPlayer does what you want. ------------- put the ct into item 2 of line 2 of table "PlaybackStatus" In the script for player "Player" (bad idea to name an object using a reserved keyword) you refer to "the ct" where ct is a local variable. You don't want "the" as a qualifier for variables. (same line) table is not an object. You want "field" here. If you use the Property Inspector you'll see that your "table" item is actually a "field" object. ------------- In your "Open" button: You can't set the Tracks of a player object. You need a space in the middle of "thefileName" -- -Mark Wieder mwieder at ahsoftware.net From dsc at swcp.com Thu Jun 2 17:24:07 2005 From: dsc at swcp.com (Dar Scott) Date: Thu, 2 Jun 2005 15:24:07 -0600 Subject: Shell command doesn't give feedback until done In-Reply-To: <429F735F.5010305@chipp.com> References: <20050602192338.9AFE89302C4@mail.runrev.com> <429F735F.5010305@chipp.com> Message-ID: On Jun 2, 2005, at 3:00 PM, Chipp Walters wrote: > For those of you who have come lately, what Xavier has done is shown > us how to use 'shell' in a non-blocking fashion. Also, if you don't need redirection or pipes, you can use "start" to execute the tool directly. I don't know what the implications are for shell(), but it might be worth a try. It might speed up execution. Dar -- ********************************************** DSC (Dar Scott Consulting & Dar's Lab) http://www.swcp.com/dsc/ Programming and software ********************************************** From ambassador at fourthworld.com Thu Jun 2 17:27:02 2005 From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin) Date: Thu, 02 Jun 2005 14:27:02 -0700 Subject: Property Table Type Doc Index for all entries In-Reply-To: <20050602204101.54F05930332@mail.runrev.com> References: <20050602204101.54F05930332@mail.runrev.com> Message-ID: <429F79A6.5070905@fourthworld.com> MisterX wrote: > Yes, one thought. Please take no offense! Again, this is not a rant... Just > another repeat of a message i've been trying to carry through out first the > hypercard then the metacard and finally the RUnrev community. > > Because what you said is how TAOO will present information to you - actually > how it has for over a decade... Autonaming, auto hiliting, autoformating, > auto correcting, auto remembering my settings, etc... That's interesting in > terms of work flow isn't it? Yes. Where can we download shipping commercial applications using TAOO to see this in action? -- Richard Gaskin Fourth World Media Corporation __________________________________________________ Rev tools and more: http://www.fourthworld.com/rev From markgreenberg at cox.net Thu Jun 2 17:30:17 2005 From: markgreenberg at cox.net (Mark Greenberg) Date: Thu, 2 Jun 2005 14:30:17 -0700 Subject: Kiosk mode In-Reply-To: <20050602195351.3A9199303B7@mail.runrev.com> Message-ID: <83E07615-D3AD-11D9-B76E-000A959B61BE@cox.net> I thought I remembered mention of a setting that would show a solid color, instead of the desktop, behind a standalone stack. Now that I need such an odd feature, I can't figure out what it was. Can anyone enlighten me, please? TIA, Mark G From st.king42 at ntlworld.com Thu Jun 2 17:34:12 2005 From: st.king42 at ntlworld.com (Stephen King) Date: Thu, 2 Jun 2005 22:34:12 +0100 Subject: [OPINION] Re: Windows Absolute Control References: <20050602183713.9A472930386@mail.runrev.com> Message-ID: <001401c567ba$d2d612b0$5602a8c0@athalon> As a windows user I have never had any problem with reactivation (and am not personally aware of anyone who has had a problem). I have upgraded most parts of my PCs (both have separate licensed copies of XP) and typically clear and reinstall every year or two anyway to clear out the garbage. At no time has activation caused me any difficulties. It all seems to happen seamlessly. Cheers Steve > My beef, Richard is not with activation as you describe (although as > a user I find it very annoying), but the scrutiny that is uncalled > for, such as Microsoft putting me through their gauntlet when I try > to change a hard drive that has nothing to do with the os or any app > - that is none of their business.....You change ANYTHING in Windoze > driven hardware, a card, a drive, and it will want you to > re-register, possibly even pay again (it wasn't clear). No thanks. > Great to keep IT teams busy (bless their hearts) but no thanks. I'm > afraid to even add ram. > > At 11:02 AM -0700 6/2/05, Richard Gaskin wrote: >>increasing use of "phone home" activation systems I'm not sure it's >>fair to single Microsoft out on that one. > From klaus at major-k.de Thu Jun 2 17:39:00 2005 From: klaus at major-k.de (Klaus Major) Date: Thu, 2 Jun 2005 23:39:00 +0200 Subject: Kiosk mode In-Reply-To: <83E07615-D3AD-11D9-B76E-000A959B61BE@cox.net> References: <83E07615-D3AD-11D9-B76E-000A959B61BE@cox.net> Message-ID: Hi Mark, > I thought I remembered mention of a setting that would show a > solid color, instead of the desktop, behind a standalone stack. > Now that I need such an odd feature, I can't figure out what it > was. Can anyone enlighten me, please? you are looking for "backdrop": set backdrop to black ## or any RGB value > TIA, > Mark G Regards Klaus Major klaus at major-k.de http://www.major-k.de From b.xavier at internet.lu Thu Jun 2 17:39:38 2005 From: b.xavier at internet.lu (MisterX) Date: Thu, 2 Jun 2005 23:39:38 +0200 Subject: Shell command doesn't give feedback until done In-Reply-To: <9e5853c75001055f3598b00ecef16ac5@swcp.com> Message-ID: <20050602205640.7B6F69301DD@mail.runrev.com> > On Jun 2, 2005, at 2:37 PM, Brian Yennie wrote: > > >> Do you know how to do that in OS X? I tried some > variations on shell > >> punctuation, but that didn't work for me. > > > > On OS X you should be able to just do: > > > > get shell("mycommand > mylogfile.log") > > But that still won't return until mycommand is finished. The > advantage of "start" in Windows is that you can use it to > spin off another app or even another shell. oh yes it will... i do directory scans for sizes, file types, file dates that can be takings hours... days for some drives... > I have some vague memory of using some fancy punctuation in in google and faqs, im sure... dont forget the old net habits... so many subjects to catchup to today... xav From HyperChris at aol.com Thu Jun 2 17:41:08 2005 From: HyperChris at aol.com (HyperChris at aol.com) Date: Thu, 2 Jun 2005 17:41:08 EDT Subject: [ANN] The Scripter's Scrapbook version 5 Message-ID: <102.62485402.2fd0d6f4@aol.com> Just an observation ... This may not be readily obvious but the app can browse and publish scraps at the Flexible Learning site. The posts can be filtered rather nicely and then added to one's own scrapbook if so desired. I find this to be a bit easier to filter and search then at RevOnline. I encourage everyone to post some goodies. BTW the interface on SSBK is so mature that it reminds me I should work harder at the details. Good work and thank you. From b.xavier at internet.lu Thu Jun 2 17:44:40 2005 From: b.xavier at internet.lu (MisterX) Date: Thu, 2 Jun 2005 23:44:40 +0200 Subject: Shell command doesn't give feedback until done In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20050602210142.85BFE930068@mail.runrev.com> Dar, would you like to be me earth embassador? You seem to understand me ;) cheerios Xav > -----Original Message----- > From: use-revolution-bounces at lists.runrev.com > [mailto:use-revolution-bounces at lists.runrev.com] On Behalf Of > Dar Scott > Sent: Thursday, June 02, 2005 23:24 > To: How to use Revolution > Subject: Re: Shell command doesn't give feedback until done > > > On Jun 2, 2005, at 3:00 PM, Chipp Walters wrote: > > > For those of you who have come lately, what Xavier has done > is shown > > us how to use 'shell' in a non-blocking fashion. > > Also, if you don't need redirection or pipes, you can use > "start" to execute the tool directly. I don't know what the > implications are for shell(), but it might be worth a try. > It might speed up execution. > > Dar > > -- > ********************************************** > DSC (Dar Scott Consulting & Dar's Lab) > http://www.swcp.com/dsc/ > Programming and software > ********************************************** > > _______________________________________________ > use-revolution mailing list > use-revolution at lists.runrev.com > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution > From mwieder at ahsoftware.net Thu Jun 2 17:46:54 2005 From: mwieder at ahsoftware.net (Mark Wieder) Date: Thu, 2 Jun 2005 14:46:54 -0700 Subject: button stops working In-Reply-To: <429F7030.8090504@hyperactivesw.com> References: <429F489A.7060402@sover.net> <429F5C88.30107@hyperactivesw.com> <429F61CE.9070505@sover.net> <429F7030.8090504@hyperactivesw.com> Message-ID: <15624711292.20050602144654@ahsoftware.net> Jon- Thursday, June 2, 2005, 1:46:40 PM, you wrote: JLG> You did a good job setting object properties throughout. You learn fast. JLG> Nice start, and pretty good for only being at this for a couple of days. JLG> The initial learning curve is the hardest part. There is a certain JLG> critical mass of info you have to have before it all falls into place, JLG> and that is the most frustrating time. After that, it suddenly starts to JLG> make sense. There is a certain "eureka" moment, after which everything JLG> gets much easier. Ditto from here on all the above... -- -Mark Wieder mwieder at ahsoftware.net From dsc at swcp.com Thu Jun 2 17:52:14 2005 From: dsc at swcp.com (Dar Scott) Date: Thu, 2 Jun 2005 15:52:14 -0600 Subject: Shell command doesn't give feedback until done In-Reply-To: <20050602210142.85BFE930068@mail.runrev.com> References: <20050602210142.85BFE930068@mail.runrev.com> Message-ID: On Jun 2, 2005, at 3:44 PM, MisterX wrote: > Dar, would you like to be me earth embassador? > > You seem to understand me ;) I already handle the Internet access for the Smigii, so that might be a conflict of interest. And besides, don't you need somebody whom earthlings understand? Dar RevCon or Bust! From see3d at writeme.com Thu Jun 2 18:23:19 2005 From: see3d at writeme.com (Dennis Brown) Date: Thu, 02 Jun 2005 18:23:19 -0400 Subject: Property Table Type Doc Index for all entries In-Reply-To: <20050602204101.54F05930332@mail.runrev.com> References: <20050602204101.54F05930332@mail.runrev.com> Message-ID: <91B3F430-C4DE-46D5-B753-E285801ADDCC@writeme.com> Xavier, Yes, I have visited your TAOO site several times. It sounds interesting, but it is beyond my simple understanding. It sounds like you are proposing something like DEVONthink Pro (which I use a lot), but I am not really sure. You propose to conquer the world of information usability, but are having a hard time explaining it to simple minds like mine. I hope Dan can help you explain it in a way so that I can understand how I could use it to solve my everyday needs --which are modest. I always have to turn complicated problems into simple ones for me to solve. This is all to magical and mysterious for me --I need concrete examples I can relate to. However, if you are saying that you have already created this simple idea of mine for beginners (like me) to index into the documentation in a way that I can learn the answers to my simple questions, without taking away time from the good folks on this list answering the hard questions, then please present your stack for all to benefit. I would certainly be grateful. Dennis On Jun 2, 2005, at 5:23 PM, MisterX wrote: > > >> Any other thoughts about the utility of this or other ideas? >> >> > > > Dennis > > Yes, one thought. Please take no offense! Again, this is not a > rant... Just > another repeat of a message i've been trying to carry through out > first the > hypercard then the metacard and finally the RUnrev community. > > Because what you said is how TAOO will present information to you - > actually > how it has for over a decade... Autonaming, auto hiliting, > autoformating, > auto correcting, auto remembering my settings, etc... That's > interesting in > terms of work flow isn't it? > From lists at mangomultimedia.com Thu Jun 2 18:41:03 2005 From: lists at mangomultimedia.com (Trevor DeVore) Date: Thu, 2 Jun 2005 15:41:03 -0700 Subject: Threaded anim GIFs? In-Reply-To: <429F78A1.6090508@fourthworld.com> References: <1ee.3cedd997.2fd0d143@aol.com> <429F78A1.6090508@fourthworld.com> Message-ID: <3ab84993565b9c60fc273144c1ffcb10@mangomultimedia.com> On Jun 2, 2005, at 2:22 PM, Richard Gaskin wrote: >> Stupid question: Is there any reason that something in this >> neighborhood would be unsuitable to your purpose? >> on AnimGif FrameNum >> if FrameNum = "" then put 1 into FrameNum >> set the frame of img "Fred" to FrameNum >> put 1 + (FrameNum mod (the number of frames in img "Fred")) into >> FrameNum >> send ("AnimGif" && FrameNum) to me in 100 milliseconds >> end AnimGif > > When used in a repeat loop, the "send" will never be received until > after the loop is done. I can call it inside the loop, but it's just > overhead compared to the greater efficiency of Trevor's request to > have it in the engine. > > When used outside of a repeat loop it'll work okay, but if we have 50 > or 100 such GIFs (think games) it'll bog down relative to what the > engine could do for us. And it does not solve the problem of the animation "freezing" while loading QT movies. -- Trevor DeVore Blue Mango Multimedia trevor at mangomultimedia.com From 3mcgrath at adelphia.net Thu Jun 2 18:56:09 2005 From: 3mcgrath at adelphia.net (Thomas McGrath III) Date: Thu, 2 Jun 2005 18:56:09 -0400 Subject: Property Table Type Doc Index for all entries In-Reply-To: <20050602204101.54F05930332@mail.runrev.com> References: <20050602204101.54F05930332@mail.runrev.com> Message-ID: Stack is corrupted error trying to open in REV. Tom On Jun 2, 2005, at 5:23 PM, MisterX wrote: > So here's an example of a typical TAOO ebook that's actually the > taoo documentation: > http://www.monsieurx.com/modules.php?name=News&file=article&sid=166 > > From jbondy at sover.net Thu Jun 2 19:29:22 2005 From: jbondy at sover.net (Jon) Date: Thu, 02 Jun 2005 19:29:22 -0400 Subject: thanks! Message-ID: <429F9652.4070907@sover.net> I've only been involved with Rev for a few days, but I've already learned what a great group of folks you are. I really appreciate all of the time and effort that some of you have made in an attempt to help me understand what is going on. I don't know of a better environment in which to try to learn. Thanks again! Jon From tominjapan at excite.com Thu Jun 2 19:54:21 2005 From: tominjapan at excite.com (Thomas McCarthy) Date: Thu, 2 Jun 2005 19:54:21 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Custom props and unicode Message-ID: <20050602235421.476EB299A1@xprdmailfe22.nwk.excite.com> This is no problem. In fact, the project I'm working now on does just that extensively. I have a number of dialogues in Latin (with unicode vowels marked with a line over them). Each dialogue is stored in a special property for the card: the LatText of this cd Here are the steps I use: 1. type/paste the text into a field. Adjust it-color/size, etc. 2. press a button with this script: put the htmltext of fld 1 into x set the LatText of this cd to x 3. Then, when I want to display the text, I do this: set the htmltext of fld 1 to the LatText of this cd NOTE, the fld should have a unicode enabled font (I use arial). I've tried using things like "Arial,unicode" or "w"--but I've run into problems--especially on Windows. cheers, tom _______________________________________________ Join Excite! - http://www.excite.com The most personalized portal on the Web! From ambassador at fourthworld.com Thu Jun 2 20:13:01 2005 From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin) Date: Thu, 02 Jun 2005 17:13:01 -0700 Subject: How do I script for the effect of menu item "Reshape Graphic" In-Reply-To: References: <20050602104002.EA1F89302B8@mail.runrev.com> Message-ID: <429FA08D.4060606@fourthworld.com> Jim Hurley wrote: >> Those are the markerPoints. They give the corners of the little shape >> used for the marker. > > Thanks Jeanne. That was very helpful. > > I see what my problem was. I was setting the MarkerDraw property to > true, but there were no marker points to be drawn until I had called > Reshape Graphic from the Object menu. > > Apparently, if the marker points are empty, Reshape Graphic constructs a > small 33 point closed, filled polygon to simulate a blackened circle. > > I would like to see how RR does this but I have forgotten how to peek at > a RR menu script. Could you refresh my memory? Marker points are a tease if what you're looking for is the equivalent of SuperCard's editPoints property, as the engine's marker points can be seen but do not respond to clicks. You could dig into Rev scripts with devolution easily enough, but the scripted implementation has some unusual aspects to its behavior. Also, for even someone as experienced as yourself, we find that it's not straightforward to implement, esp. compared with SuperCard's one-liner. It was a cool hack as a workaround before Rev owned the engine, but now that they own it there's a request to raise the bar to implement the behavior in the engine natively to allow us to build things on the order of SuperCard's SampleDraw (or MacDraw or any basic drawing environment): If such drawing environments are of interest and you need to present them in scrolling document windows, you may also be interested in: -- Richard Gaskin Fourth World Media Corporation Developer of WebMerge: Publish any database on any Web site ___________________________________________________________ Ambassador at FourthWorld.com http://www.FourthWorld.com From shaosean at unitz.ca Thu Jun 2 20:21:59 2005 From: shaosean at unitz.ca (shaosean at unitz.ca) Date: Thu, 02 Jun 2005 20:21:59 -0400 Subject: Kiosk mode In-Reply-To: <20050602205127.A5EF79303DD@mail.runrev.com> References: <20050602205127.A5EF79303DD@mail.runrev.com> Message-ID: backdrop From kray at sonsothunder.com Thu Jun 2 20:51:53 2005 From: kray at sonsothunder.com (Ken Ray) Date: Thu, 02 Jun 2005 20:51:53 -0400 Subject: Rev. User Groups in the USA? In-Reply-To: <429F2D2C.9070605@fourthworld.com> Message-ID: >> Are there any Rev. User Groups in the USA and if so, >> is there a listing available? > > There's a RUG in So Cal that meets now and then: > There's also one getting started in the Midwest - our first meeting will be July 9: If you're in the Midwest, come on and join in! Ken Ray Sons of Thunder Software Email: kray at sonsothunder.com Web Site: http://www.sonsothunder.com/ From jbondy at sover.net Thu Jun 2 20:54:18 2005 From: jbondy at sover.net (Jon) Date: Thu, 02 Jun 2005 20:54:18 -0400 Subject: possible bug Message-ID: <429FAA3A.6030902@sover.net> I complained recently about stacks that suddenly locked up to the point where Rev had to be killed at the Windows task manager level. I may have figured out why this happened. What follows are only my thoughts: I've not actually tested this theory yet. The first stack I tried to write was an image viewer. One issue was how to resize the image as the stack was resized by the user. I started out trying to use the Geometry facilities provided in Rev, but that failed because the loaded image might have a different aspect ratio than the designed image space holder. I then tried to write an on resize handler, to manually resize the image as the stack size changed. I think what happened was that I forgot to disable the Geometry on the image, and was both trying to adjust the size manually and have Rev adjust it automatically. The result may have been repeated or recursive calls, as the two approaches battled it out endlessly. My failing to disable the Geometry when I wrote the on Resize handler is obviously a bug on my part. My only question/comment is to ask whether the Rev run-time system might have detected an attempt to manually alter a value that was being maintained automatically, and flag a run-time error. This would have eliminated much of the mystery, and all of the agony. Just a suggestion. :) Jon From kray at sonsothunder.com Thu Jun 2 20:54:57 2005 From: kray at sonsothunder.com (Ken Ray) Date: Thu, 02 Jun 2005 20:54:57 -0400 Subject: Shell command doesn't give feedback until done In-Reply-To: <429F735F.5010305@chipp.com> Message-ID: > This windows tip is a great one! Ken should put it in his sonsothunder > website! Thanks, Chipp... I'll add that to the list! Ken Ray Sons of Thunder Software Email: kray at sonsothunder.com Web Site: http://www.sonsothunder.com/ From jacque at hyperactivesw.com Thu Jun 2 21:15:45 2005 From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay) Date: Thu, 02 Jun 2005 20:15:45 -0500 Subject: Shell command doesn't give feedback until done In-Reply-To: <689d5646958dcd09bc589f2d36847959@qldlearning.com> References: <20050602192338.9AFE89302C4@mail.runrev.com> <9e5853c75001055f3598b00ecef16ac5@swcp.com> <689d5646958dcd09bc589f2d36847959@qldlearning.com> Message-ID: <429FAF41.8070702@hyperactivesw.com> On 6/2/05 4:23 PM, Brian Yennie wrote: > Agh, sorry- I obviously missed the point of the thread. > > Add an ampersand after your command: > > get shell("mycommand > mylogfile.log &") > > Voila, a "backgrounded" process that returns immediately. Oh cool. I will go try it. I have a use for this. :) -- Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com From katir at hindu.org Thu Jun 2 21:22:24 2005 From: katir at hindu.org (Sivakatirswami) Date: Thu, 2 Jun 2005 15:22:24 -1000 Subject: Protecting Log In Info Message-ID: This has been discussed before, but I just want to confirm. If I have a stack with for example, an FTP user and password in a custom property and then set the password of this stack... that custom prop ( and the stack scripts) will be encrypted and unavailable in a text editor... Yes, I did test this myself, and opening the stack in BBEdit gives me garble... so i'm thinking, yes this works. but want a second opinion... And, if a script in the stack wants to run an FTP process, after the stack is open, the custom prop is available internally to the stack scripts. e.g. set the uLogINs of this stack to "fooNameUser,barPassword" scripts can later: put item 1 of the uLogINs of this stack into tUser put item 2 of the uLogINs of this stack into tPassword put fld "yourEssayOnWhatever" into url ("ftp:" & tUser & ":" & tPassword &"@somedomain.com/incoming/newEssay.txt") This should work.. but the logIns are unavailable in any context without the passkey... correct? .and this is about as secure as we can make if where the goal is to provide an FTP client to a third party that allows uploads to your server. Of course I know any packet sniffer can read the outgoing data and that includes the log in packets... and just how problematic that might be has everything to do with how you have your directory structure and permissions set up on the server itself... but those are different issues... Also, feel free to chime in with "Well that's one way... here is another.... how I do it." Thanks Sivakatirswami From jacque at hyperactivesw.com Thu Jun 2 21:32:06 2005 From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay) Date: Thu, 02 Jun 2005 20:32:06 -0500 Subject: thanks! In-Reply-To: <429F9652.4070907@sover.net> References: <429F9652.4070907@sover.net> Message-ID: <429FB316.4070909@hyperactivesw.com> On 6/2/05 6:29 PM, Jon wrote: > I've only been involved with Rev for a few days, but I've already > learned what a great group of folks you are. I really appreciate all of > the time and effort that some of you have made in an attempt to help me > understand what is going on. I don't know of a better environment in > which to try to learn. > > Thanks again! It's pay-forward. When you become a Rev Jedi, you have to give a leg up to the next guy. ;) -- Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com From briany at qldlearning.com Thu Jun 2 22:02:35 2005 From: briany at qldlearning.com (Brian Yennie) Date: Thu, 2 Jun 2005 19:02:35 -0700 Subject: Shell command doesn't give feedback until done In-Reply-To: <429FAF41.8070702@hyperactivesw.com> References: <20050602192338.9AFE89302C4@mail.runrev.com> <9e5853c75001055f3598b00ecef16ac5@swcp.com> <689d5646958dcd09bc589f2d36847959@qldlearning.com> <429FAF41.8070702@hyperactivesw.com> Message-ID: Ugh. I just tried this and it doesn't work in Rev- although it's the standard way to deal with this sort of task in a terminal. I'm guessing that Rev refuses to return until the process is completely terminated- and opens a whole new shell environment every time you call shell(). How rude! Now picking for a workaround... sorry for the false alarm. > On 6/2/05 4:23 PM, Brian Yennie wrote: > >> Agh, sorry- I obviously missed the point of the thread. >> Add an ampersand after your command: >> get shell("mycommand > mylogfile.log &") >> Voila, a "backgrounded" process that returns immediately. > > Oh cool. I will go try it. I have a use for this. :) > > -- > Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com > HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com > _______________________________________________ > use-revolution mailing list > use-revolution at lists.runrev.com > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution > > From Buddyb3ar22 at aol.com Thu Jun 2 22:35:08 2005 From: Buddyb3ar22 at aol.com (Buddyb3ar22 at aol.com) Date: Thu, 2 Jun 2005 22:35:08 EDT Subject: How to make an media player? Message-ID: <159.526016ad.2fd11bdc@aol.com> I kinda new at this, and I might sound a little... confusing, but I'm more of a web programmer than a software programmer, so this is sort of new for me How exactly would I be able to make a simple script with Dreamcard that is able to open an mp3 file and play its contents? This is probably a lot harder than it sounds, but I'm kind of new at this and I like challenges, but I cam at a dead end within a few minutes and thought maybe someone ten times the skill of me could maybe help From webmaster at dreamscapesoftware.com Thu Jun 2 22:40:09 2005 From: webmaster at dreamscapesoftware.com (Derek Bump) Date: Thu, 02 Jun 2005 21:40:09 -0500 Subject: How to make an media player? In-Reply-To: <159.526016ad.2fd11bdc@aol.com> References: <159.526016ad.2fd11bdc@aol.com> Message-ID: <429FC309.50809@dreamscapesoftware.com> It's actually quite simple. Make a stack with 1 button and 1 player (name the player "playerName"). Set the script of the button to the following... on mouseUp answer file "Choose an MP3" if it is not empty then set the fileName of player "playerName" to it end mouseUp That's it! Click the play button on the player and it will start to play the mp3. Derek Bump Dreamscape Software _______________________________________________ Compress Images Easily with JPEGCompress http://www.dreamscapesoftware.com/ Buddyb3ar22 at aol.com wrote: > I kinda new at this, and I might sound a little... confusing, but I'm more of > a web programmer than a software programmer, so this is sort of new for me > > How exactly would I be able to make a simple script with Dreamcard that is > able to open an mp3 file and play its contents? This is probably a lot harder > than it sounds, but I'm kind of new at this and I like challenges, but I cam at > a dead end within a few minutes and thought maybe someone ten times the skill > of me could maybe help > _______________________________________________ > use-revolution mailing list > use-revolution at lists.runrev.com > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution > > From Buddyb3ar22 at aol.com Thu Jun 2 22:53:09 2005 From: Buddyb3ar22 at aol.com (Buddyb3ar22 at aol.com) Date: Thu, 2 Jun 2005 22:53:09 EDT Subject: 23. Re: How to make an media player? (Derek Bump) Message-ID: <158.52115b3c.2fd12015@aol.com> Wow, Thank you very much, I appreciate it a lot! From chipp at chipp.com Thu Jun 2 23:01:46 2005 From: chipp at chipp.com (Chipp Walters) Date: Thu, 02 Jun 2005 22:01:46 -0500 Subject: [OPINION] Re: Windows Absolute Control In-Reply-To: <001401c567ba$d2d612b0$5602a8c0@athalon> References: <20050602183713.9A472930386@mail.runrev.com> <001401c567ba$d2d612b0$5602a8c0@athalon> Message-ID: <429FC81A.9030304@chipp.com> Stephen King wrote: > As a windows user I have never had any problem with reactivation (and am > not personally aware of anyone who has had a problem). I have upgraded > most parts of my PCs (both have separate licensed copies of XP) and > typically clear and reinstall every year or two anyway to clear out the > garbage. > > At no time has activation caused me any difficulties. It all seems to > happen seamlessly. > > Cheers > Steve Wow. You are lucky. I've had tons of problems with reactivation. On one computer, I replaced the motherboard and the MS activation team couldn't get me activated no matter how many hours and hours I spent on the phone with them, escalating up the chain of command. I ended up *actually* having to buy a 2nd copy of WinXP (if you can believe it!) to solve the problem. Truly they've still got serious issues with activation. Funny thing is, you can find bootleg copies of XP, so the pirates must be happy, it just the honest customers who are screwed. -Chipp -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.322 / Virus Database: 267.4.1 - Release Date: 6/2/2005 From mwieder at ahsoftware.net Thu Jun 2 23:08:16 2005 From: mwieder at ahsoftware.net (Mark Wieder) Date: Thu, 2 Jun 2005 20:08:16 -0700 Subject: possible bug In-Reply-To: <429FAA3A.6030902@sover.net> References: <429FAA3A.6030902@sover.net> Message-ID: <16943993238.20050602200816@ahsoftware.net> Jon- Thursday, June 2, 2005, 5:54:18 PM, you wrote: J> My failing to disable the Geometry when I wrote the on Resize handler J> is obviously a bug on my part. My only question/comment is to ask J> whether the Rev run-time system might have detected an attempt to J> manually alter a value that was being maintained automatically, and flag J> a run-time error. This would have eliminated much of the mystery, and J> all of the agony. J> Just a suggestion. It's not a bad suggestion at that. I think that anything that brings down the IDE should be classified as a bug. I tested your resize handler earlier and with the included bugs it did indeed cause the IDE to hang. I'd rather have this be an environment that encourages experimentation, rather than punishing it. But I'm a bit at a loss as to how this problem would be trapped. I'd suggest putting this into Bugzilla with your sample script and letting the runrev folks deal with it. The problem, of course, as you've already surmised, is that the Damned Programming Environment did exactly what you told it to do... just can't trust computers these days. If you're not already using Bugzilla, do it the easy way and pick up RevZilla at . -- -Mark Wieder mwieder at ahsoftware.net From jperryl at ecs.fullerton.edu Thu Jun 2 23:08:09 2005 From: jperryl at ecs.fullerton.edu (Judy Perry) Date: Thu, 2 Jun 2005 20:08:09 -0700 (PDT) Subject: About Piracy but not about the guy... In-Reply-To: <20050602192848.7952B9302C4@mail.runrev.com> Message-ID: Yeah, possibly, or maybe I didn't. My only recollections are along the lines of 'what the ?????' Judy On Thu, 2 Jun 2005, MisterX wrote: > Judy, > > Obviously you didn't read the documentation's explanation regarding that. > Awesome GUI... From ralf at dol.net Thu Jun 2 23:09:37 2005 From: ralf at dol.net (Ralph R. Forehand) Date: Thu, 2 Jun 2005 23:09:37 -0400 Subject: Rev. User Groups in the USA? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Ken, Thanks for the heads-up on your group and invite. Unfortunately I can't take you up on the invitation as i live in Northern Maryland - But sure wish I could. :-( Any other groups PLEASE contact me and I'll compile a listings and publish it on the web for all of us. Thanks Again and TAKE CARE, Ralph ----------------------------------- > >> Are there any Rev. User Groups in the USA and if so, > >> is there a listing available? > > > > There's a RUG in So Cal that meets now and then: > > > >There's also one getting started in the Midwest - our first meeting will be >July 9: > > > >If you're in the Midwest, come on and join in! > >Ken Ray >Sons of Thunder Software >Email: kray at sonsothunder.com >Web Site: http://www.sonsothunder.com/ > > >_______________________________________________ >use-revolution mailing list >use-revolution at lists.runrev.com >http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution From briany at qldlearning.com Thu Jun 2 23:10:38 2005 From: briany at qldlearning.com (Brian Yennie) Date: Thu, 2 Jun 2005 20:10:38 -0700 Subject: Shell command doesn't give feedback until done In-Reply-To: References: <20050602192338.9AFE89302C4@mail.runrev.com> <9e5853c75001055f3598b00ecef16ac5@swcp.com> <689d5646958dcd09bc589f2d36847959@qldlearning.com> <429FAF41.8070702@hyperactivesw.com> Message-ID: OK, since I started us down a dead-end path, here's some goodies that DO work. Create a new stack. Put the handlers below in the stack script. Now create one large scrolling field. Now run this in your message box, a lengthy shell task (finding all html files in your Applications directory): ## RUN find /Applications/ -name '*.html as an asynchronous task and stream the data back put async_shell("find /Applications/ -name '*.html'") into tProcessID repeat while async_process_alive(tProcessID) put async_shell_get_data(tProcessID) into fld 1 wait 1 second with messages end repeat put async_shell_get_data(tProcessID) into fld 1 It could use a little polishing, but it works! Asynchronous shell tasks on MacOS X...! ####### global _async_shell_counter, _async_shell_map function async_shell tCmd if (_async_shell_counter is empty) then put 1 into _async_shell_counter else add 1 to _async_shell_counter put specialFolderPath("temporary") into tFilePath if (last char of tFilePath <> "/") then put "/" after tFilePath put ("revTmp"&_async_shell_counter&".out") after tFilePath put tCmd&" &> "&tFilePath&" & echo $!" into tCmd put shell(tCmd) into tProcessID put tFilePath into _async_shell_map[tProcessID] return tProcessID end async_shell function async_process_alive tProcessID put shell(("ps -p"&&tProcessID)) into tProcessList return (offset(tProcessID, tProcessList) > 0) end async_process_alive function async_shell_get_data tProcessID return url ("file:"&_async_shell_map[tProcessID]) end async_shell_get_data > Ugh. I just tried this and it doesn't work in Rev- although it's the > standard way to deal with this sort of task in a terminal. > I'm guessing that Rev refuses to return until the process is > completely terminated- and opens a whole new shell environment every > time you call shell(). How rude! > > Now picking for a workaround... sorry for the false alarm. > >> On 6/2/05 4:23 PM, Brian Yennie wrote: >> >>> Agh, sorry- I obviously missed the point of the thread. >>> Add an ampersand after your command: >>> get shell("mycommand > mylogfile.log &") >>> Voila, a "backgrounded" process that returns immediately. >> >> Oh cool. I will go try it. I have a use for this. :) >> >> -- >> Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com >> HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com >> _______________________________________________ >> use-revolution mailing list >> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution >> >> > > _______________________________________________ > use-revolution mailing list > use-revolution at lists.runrev.com > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution > > From Buddyb3ar22 at aol.com Thu Jun 2 23:10:48 2005 From: Buddyb3ar22 at aol.com (Buddyb3ar22 at aol.com) Date: Thu, 2 Jun 2005 23:10:48 EDT Subject: Another Question about a media player Message-ID: <1c1.29a7a7c3.2fd12438@aol.com> Thank you again so much for helping me before, but a new question has arose in my mind x.x;; Since I dragged the quicktime player into the stack, is there a way to change the look of the buttons and maybe make the volume controls different than in the quicktime look? Thanks.. again Dan From ralf at dol.net Thu Jun 2 23:12:25 2005 From: ralf at dol.net (Ralph R. Forehand) Date: Thu, 2 Jun 2005 23:12:25 -0400 Subject: Rev. User Groups in the USA? In-Reply-To: <429F2D2C.9070605@fourthworld.com> References: <429F2D2C.9070605@fourthworld.com> Message-ID: Richard, Thanks for the information on your group. Your are the first on what I hope will be a long list of RUGs. Thanks Again and TAKE CARE, Ralph >Ralph R. Forehand wrote: > > Are there any Rev. User Groups in the USA and if so, > > is there a listing available? > >There's a RUG in So Cal that meets now and then: > > >I believe there are enough users in many metro areas (SF bay and NY at least) to warrant more.... > >-- > Richard Gaskin > Fourth World Media Corporation > __________________________________________________ > Rev tools and more: http://www.fourthworld.com/rev >_______________________________________________ >use-revolution mailing list >use-revolution at lists.runrev.com >http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution From briany at qldlearning.com Thu Jun 2 23:19:09 2005 From: briany at qldlearning.com (Brian Yennie) Date: Thu, 2 Jun 2005 20:19:09 -0700 Subject: Another Question about a media player In-Reply-To: <1c1.29a7a7c3.2fd12438@aol.com> References: <1c1.29a7a7c3.2fd12438@aol.com> Message-ID: <2c542e7283da03e5bb6f9e333f421bfd@qldlearning.com> Dan, Try this for starters: Select your player, and under "Basic Properties", uncheck the "Controller". This should hide the controls. Now create a new button. Insert this script: on mouseUp start player 1 end mouseUp You can also do: stop player 1 set the playLoudness of player 1 to 50 etc. In short, you hide the controller and create your own buttons- which then do whatever you want using their own scripts. You'll probably spend more time working on how they look than the scripting, as most of what you would want to do can be achieved with one-liners like the above. HTH, Brian > Thank you again so much for helping me before, but a new question has > arose > in my mind x.x;; > Since I dragged the quicktime player into the stack, is there a way to > change > the look of the buttons and maybe make the volume controls different > than in > the quicktime look? > Thanks.. again Dan > _______________________________________________ > use-revolution mailing list > use-revolution at lists.runrev.com > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution > > From Buddyb3ar22 at aol.com Thu Jun 2 23:27:11 2005 From: Buddyb3ar22 at aol.com (Buddyb3ar22 at aol.com) Date: Thu, 2 Jun 2005 23:27:11 EDT Subject: Another Question about a media player Message-ID: <2b.7465533b.2fd1280f@aol.com> Oh, I see, Wow, this isn't nearly as hard as I thought it would be, this makes life a lot more easier than I thought, Thank you again for you help this really is simple, I wouldn't of been able to do anything without you though From jacque at hyperactivesw.com Thu Jun 2 23:29:18 2005 From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay) Date: Thu, 02 Jun 2005 22:29:18 -0500 Subject: Rev. User Groups in the USA? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <429FCE8E.2040401@hyperactivesw.com> On 6/2/05 7:51 PM, Ken Ray wrote: > There's also one getting started in the Midwest - our first meeting will be > July 9: > > It is? I joined the Yahoo group when it first set up, but haven't ever seen any mail from it. I just went to Yahoo to check and there are no messages in the group there either. Are you guys using telepathy? -- Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com From Buddyb3ar22 at aol.com Fri Jun 3 00:23:46 2005 From: Buddyb3ar22 at aol.com (Buddyb3ar22 at aol.com) Date: Fri, 3 Jun 2005 00:23:46 EDT Subject: Here to drive you crazy about the media player again Message-ID: <1a4.39312848.2fd13552@aol.com> Yes I know, I'm probably annoying you, but I got stuck again, I was working with the options and I ran into a problem I found the documentary that showed the options in the Dreamcard help that listed the options of a player, but I don't see anything for an option like fast forwards or rewind, and also nothing to make a little display so that a person can tell how far they are in on the file Oh and I have one more question. Lets say I wanted one button for play and pause, like when the music is paused, the button says play and when you click play it'd turn to pause, I haven't looked this up anywhere yet, but I was just wondering if it was possible to do? Thank you.. once again and I bet your tired of me, but yeah, I might as well try >.> From chipp at chipp.com Fri Jun 3 00:43:59 2005 From: chipp at chipp.com (Chipp Walters) Date: Thu, 02 Jun 2005 23:43:59 -0500 Subject: Here to drive you crazy about the media player again In-Reply-To: <1a4.39312848.2fd13552@aol.com> References: <1a4.39312848.2fd13552@aol.com> Message-ID: <429FE00F.5000206@chipp.com> Dan, Read below... Buddyb3ar22 at aol.com wrote: > Yes I know, I'm probably annoying you, but I got stuck again, I was working > with the options and I ran into a problem > I found the documentary that showed the options in the Dreamcard help that > listed the options of a player, but I don't see anything for an option like fast > forwards or rewind, and also nothing to make a little display so that a > person can tell how far they are in on the file Please check out in the documentation: Press the Objects button at the top, then select the Object "VideoClip" on the left tree and you can see the messages and properties it gets. To move forward or back, you'll want to create a button to get and set the currentTime property of the player object. You can search these archives if you like by going to: http://www.altuit.com/webs/altuit2/RunRev/Search.htm And enter your search criteria in the Search box there. There's also a plugin (I think by Mark Wieder) which will search the archives as well. > > Oh and I have one more question. Lets say I wanted one button for play and > pause, like when the music is paused, the button says play and when you click > play it'd turn to pause, I haven't looked this up anywhere yet, but I was just > wondering if it was possible to do? Check out the icon property of a button. You can switch it from one image to another. on mouseUp if the icon of me is 1025 then --> PAUSED set the icon of me to 1026 --> DO YOUR PLAY STUFF HERE else set the icon of me to 1025 --> DO YOUR PAUSED STUFF HERE end if end mouseUp best, Chipp -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.322 / Virus Database: 267.4.1 - Release Date: 6/2/2005 From b.xavier at internet.lu Fri Jun 3 01:06:46 2005 From: b.xavier at internet.lu (MisterX) Date: Fri, 3 Jun 2005 07:06:46 +0200 Subject: Property Table Type Doc Index for all entries In-Reply-To: <429F79A6.5070905@fourthworld.com> Message-ID: <20050603042350.76FAD930056@mail.runrev.com> > Yes. Where can we download shipping commercial applications > using TAOO to see this in action? Hi Richard, The main TAOO is currently under testing! As you might have noticed, i've been releasing it piece by piece. But: 1) rev doesn't like PHPNuke urls - without this, i cant track easily the web statistics. 2) without documentation, it may not be so interesting. Im working on a solution for both... Auto-net loading and updated... I wouldn't want you to complain if you got your hands on it! I have zero support resources so im being proactive. Anyway TAOO is working - that's not been a problem in the past 15 years - but im not sure you would like to see it without a cool gui - the TAOO documentation did't generate any comments though - other than documentation content being confusing. And that's where im stuck. It took a while to overcome IDE limitations to make it nice looking which is now ready (and for both MC and RunRev) - it works even without decorations and YES, draggeable and resizable stacks... Switcheable themes too (ready very very soon). I have yet to redo the object model - i redid it last year so it could be decoupled from the libraries and avoid a large library download - see any non-plugin non-graphic stack in monsieurX... Now, im redesigning it so it no longuer is restricted to specific name-spaces. Then the whole TAOO libraries will be released commercially and as a free education-ware. However what was requested in the thread was something which is available for quite a while on MonsieurX! Would a little test drive entice you Richard? cheers Xavier http://monsieurx.com From kray at sonsothunder.com Fri Jun 3 01:43:04 2005 From: kray at sonsothunder.com (Ken Ray) Date: Fri, 03 Jun 2005 01:43:04 -0400 Subject: Rev. User Groups in the USA? In-Reply-To: <429FCE8E.2040401@hyperactivesw.com> Message-ID: >> There's also one getting started in the Midwest - our first meeting will be >> July 9: >> >> > > It is? I joined the Yahoo group when it first set up, but haven't ever > seen any mail from it. I just went to Yahoo to check and there are no > messages in the group there either. Are you guys using telepathy? I wish! ;-) Actually I'd been sending around private emails to everyone on the list (including you, I *hope!*) prior to the user group being set up. Since it's been set up there haven't been any messages as there haven't been any changes of plans. The Calendar has the event set up on July 9 (such as the Yahoo Group Calendar is), and I was going to send out mail to members prior to the RevCon... If you haven't gotten any private emails from me about this, let me know offlist and I'll give you all the info. Ken Ray Sons of Thunder Software Email: kray at sonsothunder.com Web Site: http://www.sonsothunder.com/ From xbury.cs at clearstream.com Fri Jun 3 01:57:35 2005 From: xbury.cs at clearstream.com (xbury.cs at clearstream.com) Date: Fri, 3 Jun 2005 07:57:35 +0200 Subject: Property Table Type Doc Index for all entries In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Hi Ken, I fixed it temporarily with a zipped file. download directly from Something must have gone wrong with the upload... thanks for the report cheers Xavier On 03/06/2005 00:56:09 use-revolution-bounces wrote: >Stack is corrupted error trying to open in REV. > > > >Tom > >On Jun 2, 2005, at 5:23 PM, MisterX wrote: > >> So here's an example of a typical TAOO ebook that's actually the >> taoo documentation: >> http://www.monsieurx.com/modules.php?name=News&file=article&sid=166 >> >> > >_______________________________________________ >use-revolution mailing list >use-revolution at lists.runrev.com >http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution ----------------------------------------- Visit us at http://www.clearstream.com IMPORTANT MESSAGE Internet communications are not secure and therefore Clearstream International does not accept legal responsibility for the contents of this message. The information contained in this e-mail is confidential and may be legally privileged. It is intended solely for the addressee. If you are not the intended recipient, any disclosure, copying, distribution or any action taken or omitted to be taken in reliance on it, is prohibited and may be unlawful. Any views expressed in this e-mail are those of the individual sender, except where the sender specifically states them to be the views of Clearstream International or of any of its affiliates or subsidiaries. END OF DISCLAIMER From dcragg at lacscentre.co.uk Fri Jun 3 02:26:27 2005 From: dcragg at lacscentre.co.uk (Dave Cragg) Date: Fri, 3 Jun 2005 07:26:27 +0100 Subject: get URL returning empty string In-Reply-To: <429F3E62.4050508@tweedly.net> References: <20050602161623.BBCF9930078@mail.runrev.com> <429F3E62.4050508@tweedly.net> Message-ID: <5965223A-38E5-4688-A65B-07C7F725E80A@lacscentre.co.uk> On 2 Jun 2005, at 18:14, Alex Tweedly wrote: > Dave Beck wrote: > > >> Thanks Chipp!! >> >> But unfortunately putting the command in a repeat structure like that >> doesn't seem to be helping. For some reason "get URL" returning >> empty is >> quite consistent behavior on at least one customer's machine. >> >> Might it help to use the "load" command instead? Are they >> implemented more >> or less the same way internally? What about communicating through >> sockets? >> Is that more reliable? (I am currently using a .php script to >> execute some >> commands on the server and return a value.) >> >> >> > Not directly answering your question, but .... > > on the machines which fail, can you try accessing the Web page (php > script) from a browser and verify that works. > I know you said > > >> I know that the web page that I am >> trying to load is NOT empty. >> >> > but I explicitly want to check for accessibility from the same > machine on which it fails via Rev. After doing what Alex suggests, you should probably use libUrlSetLogField to log the exchange between your app and the server. The odd thing is that "the result" is returning empty. This should only happen if the server sends a 200 response. If it is getting a 200 response, I'd want to see whether there is a "Content- length" header in the server's reponse, and if not, whether there is a Transfer-encoding" header. If there is neither, libUrl will use a "socketClosed" message to determine the end of the data transfer. In this case, a premature close of the socket might produce what you are seeing. (When those headers are present, which is normal, a socketClosed message during a data transfer will produce an error in the result.) This is the only thing that I can think of to explain what you are seeing, unless it's a bug in libUrl. In either case, getting the server's response would help. Cheers Dave From xbury.cs at clearstream.com Fri Jun 3 02:28:57 2005 From: xbury.cs at clearstream.com (xbury.cs at clearstream.com) Date: Fri, 3 Jun 2005 08:28:57 +0200 Subject: Property Table Type Doc Index for all entries In-Reply-To: <91B3F430-C4DE-46D5-B753-E285801ADDCC@writeme.com> Message-ID: Hi Dennis The "thing" is under testing. After that i hope to spend yet some more time to compose a simpler documentation (which i already started)... Alas with just two hands, a full-time job and so little time around it, it's hard to make ends meet. Im doing my best and i noted your comment... I'll try to make it yet simpler ;) Devon looks like a nice copy of TAOO over a decade ago (but with nicer gui)... Competition gives me hope - proves my data model is right ;) I do already all they do and much more... Included multicolumn previews or editing, file browsing, agents, etc... My however is open source - not macOSX only and all was written in rev with no external's dependencies - fully portable anywhere. I also wrote my own photo album and more. When TAOO comes out, their product might be severly obsoleted ;) cheers Xavier On 03/06/2005 00:23:19 use-revolution-bounces wrote: >Xavier, > >Yes, I have visited your TAOO site several times. It sounds >interesting, but it is beyond my simple understanding. It sounds >like you are proposing something like DEVONthink Pro (which I use a >lot), but I am not really sure. You propose to conquer the world of >information usability, but are having a hard time explaining it to >simple minds like mine. I hope Dan can help you explain it in a way >so that I can understand how I could use it to solve my everyday >needs --which are modest. I always have to turn complicated problems >into simple ones for me to solve. This is all to magical and >mysterious for me --I need concrete examples I can relate to. > >However, if you are saying that you have already created this simple >idea of mine for beginners (like me) to index into the documentation >in a way that I can learn the answers to my simple questions, without >taking away time from the good folks on this list answering the hard >questions, then please present your stack for all to benefit. I >would certainly be grateful. > >Dennis > > >On Jun 2, 2005, at 5:23 PM, MisterX wrote: > >> >> >>> Any other thoughts about the utility of this or other ideas? >>> >>> >> >> >> Dennis >> >> Yes, one thought. Please take no offense! Again, this is not a >> rant... Just >> another repeat of a message i've been trying to carry through out >> first the >> hypercard then the metacard and finally the RUnrev community. >> >> Because what you said is how TAOO will present information to you - >> actually >> how it has for over a decade... Autonaming, auto hiliting, >> autoformating, >> auto correcting, auto remembering my settings, etc... That's >> interesting in >> terms of work flow isn't it? >> >_______________________________________________ >use-revolution mailing list >use-revolution at lists.runrev.com >http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution ----------------------------------------- Visit us at http://www.clearstream.com IMPORTANT MESSAGE Internet communications are not secure and therefore Clearstream International does not accept legal responsibility for the contents of this message. The information contained in this e-mail is confidential and may be legally privileged. It is intended solely for the addressee. If you are not the intended recipient, any disclosure, copying, distribution or any action taken or omitted to be taken in reliance on it, is prohibited and may be unlawful. Any views expressed in this e-mail are those of the individual sender, except where the sender specifically states them to be the views of Clearstream International or of any of its affiliates or subsidiaries. END OF DISCLAIMER From katherine.w.c at gmail.com Fri Jun 3 02:36:25 2005 From: katherine.w.c at gmail.com (Kat) Date: Fri, 03 Jun 2005 02:36:25 -0400 Subject: Rev. User Groups in the USA? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <429FFA69.1040905@gmail.com> What about a Southeast RUG? I'm in east central coast of Florida, but have a son in the Hotlanta area I wouldn't mind visiting now and then ;-) Anybody else from around here? Cheers, Kat From klaus at major-k.de Fri Jun 3 05:25:04 2005 From: klaus at major-k.de (Klaus Major) Date: Fri, 3 Jun 2005 11:25:04 +0200 Subject: Kiosk mode In-Reply-To: References: <20050602205127.A5EF79303DD@mail.runrev.com> Message-ID: Hi Sean, Am 03.06.2005 um 02:21 schrieb shaosean at unitz.ca: > backdrop VERY minimalistic! In a hurry? ;-) Best Klaus Major klaus at major-k.de http://www.major-k.de From revinfo1155 at aol.com Fri Jun 3 05:58:56 2005 From: revinfo1155 at aol.com (revinfo1155 at aol.com) Date: Fri, 03 Jun 2005 05:58:56 -0400 Subject: Rev. User Groups in the USA? In-Reply-To: <429FFA69.1040905@gmail.com> References: <429FFA69.1040905@gmail.com> Message-ID: <8C73639FDBCA3C2-A3C-EDA@FWM-R42.sysops.aol.com> Yes-I'm in Atlanta and would definitely be interested in an Atlanta rev user group. jack -----Original Message----- From: Kat To: How to use Revolution Sent: Fri, 03 Jun 2005 02:36:25 -0400 Subject: Re: Rev. User Groups in the USA? What about a Southeast RUG? I'm in east central coast of Florida, but have a son in the Hotlanta area I wouldn't mind visiting now and then ;-) Anybody else from around here?? ? Cheers,? Kat? ? _______________________________________________? use-revolution mailing list? use-revolution at lists.runrev.com? http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution? From YourSignup at Yahoo.com Fri Jun 3 07:43:45 2005 From: YourSignup at Yahoo.com (Jim Bufalini) Date: Fri, 3 Jun 2005 01:43:45 -1000 Subject: Rev. User Groups in the USA? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: I wouldn't mind hosting one here in Honolulu, Hawaii but I believe, except for the occasional visitor, it would be a *group* of one... -----Original Message----- From: use-revolution-bounces at lists.runrev.com [mailto:use-revolution-bounces at lists.runrev.com]On Behalf Of Ken Ray Sent: Thursday, June 02, 2005 2:52 PM To: use-revolution at lists.runrev.com Subject: Re: Rev. User Groups in the USA? >> Are there any Rev. User Groups in the USA and if so, >> is there a listing available? > _______________________________________________ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution at lists.runrev.com http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution From jbondy at sover.net Fri Jun 3 07:45:58 2005 From: jbondy at sover.net (Jon) Date: Fri, 03 Jun 2005 07:45:58 -0400 Subject: possible bug In-Reply-To: <16943993238.20050602200816@ahsoftware.net> References: <429FAA3A.6030902@sover.net> <16943993238.20050602200816@ahsoftware.net> Message-ID: <42A042F6.8060004@sover.net> Here is a better URL for RevZilla: http://www.sonsothunder.com/devres/revolution/downloads/RevZilla.htm Mark Wieder wrote: >Jon- > >Thursday, June 2, 2005, 5:54:18 PM, you wrote: > >J> My failing to disable the Geometry when I wrote the on Resize handler >J> is obviously a bug on my part. My only question/comment is to ask >J> whether the Rev run-time system might have detected an attempt to >J> manually alter a value that was being maintained automatically, and flag >J> a run-time error. This would have eliminated much of the mystery, and >J> all of the agony. > >J> Just a suggestion. > >It's not a bad suggestion at that. I think that anything that brings >down the IDE should be classified as a bug. I tested your resize >handler earlier and with the included bugs it did indeed cause the IDE >to hang. I'd rather have this be an environment that encourages >experimentation, rather than punishing it. But I'm a bit at a loss as >to how this problem would be trapped. I'd suggest putting this into >Bugzilla with your sample script and letting the runrev folks deal >with it. > >The problem, of course, as you've already surmised, is that the Damned >Programming Environment did exactly what you told it to do... just >can't trust computers these days. > >If you're not already using Bugzilla, do it the easy way and pick up >RevZilla at . > > > From ralf at dol.net Fri Jun 3 08:13:47 2005 From: ralf at dol.net (Ralph R. Forehand) Date: Fri, 3 Jun 2005 08:13:47 -0400 Subject: Rev. User Groups in the USA? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Jim, Kat, Jack, Thank You for your responses. They is exactly what I was hoping for. I'll keep compiling the info on existing RUGs and those interested in possibly forming local RUGs. Since this is a "grass roots" start so we'll all need to be patient. More Later and TAKE CARE, Ralph ------------------------------------- Jim wrote: >I wouldn't mind hosting one here in Honolulu, Hawaii but I believe, except >for the occasional visitor, it would be a *group* of one... > > >-----Original Message----- >From: use-revolution-bounces at lists.runrev.com >[mailto:use-revolution-bounces at lists.runrev.com]On Behalf Of Ken Ray >Sent: Thursday, June 02, 2005 2:52 PM >To: use-revolution at lists.runrev.com >Subject: Re: Rev. User Groups in the USA? > > >> Are there any Rev. User Groups in the USA and if so, > >> is there a listing available? > > _______________________________________________ From jbondy at sover.net Fri Jun 3 08:19:02 2005 From: jbondy at sover.net (Jon) Date: Fri, 03 Jun 2005 08:19:02 -0400 Subject: progress bars In-Reply-To: <8B8C6E55-0AF6-4A9A-8306-45E24B9A3279@major-k.de> References: <429F5BD1.1050101@sover.net> <8B8C6E55-0AF6-4A9A-8306-45E24B9A3279@major-k.de> Message-ID: <42A04AB6.10202@sover.net> So, Klaus: do you play a Steinberger guitar? :) Jon From 3mcgrath at adelphia.net Fri Jun 3 08:25:39 2005 From: 3mcgrath at adelphia.net (Thomas McGrath III) Date: Fri, 3 Jun 2005 08:25:39 -0400 Subject: Another Question about a media player In-Reply-To: <1c1.29a7a7c3.2fd12438@aol.com> References: <1c1.29a7a7c3.2fd12438@aol.com> Message-ID: <3f7f5b679bcb68e01fb56f1e5b34524b@adelphia.net> Buddy, - is your name Dan? or Buddy? Hi, welcome to the list!!! You would be well served by going through the User Spaces in REV Online. I believe there are many sample stacks that you could learn from. There is one called PlayWavMCI that uses a different approach than Quicktime to play wav files that is very interesting although probably not what your looking for. Also at the REV site is a link to users websites where you can find many wonderful websites of users on this list. I believe someone had a sample mp3 player on their site. There was a stack Playerstuff 1.0 that showed how to use a player in REV but I think was mostly movies. I know I've seen an mp3 player with skins. I hope someone will help you. Tom On Jun 2, 2005, at 11:10 PM, Buddyb3ar22 at aol.com wrote: > Thank you again so much for helping me before, but a new question has > arose > in my mind x.x;; > Since I dragged the quicktime player into the stack, is there a way to > change > the look of the buttons and maybe make the volume controls different > than in > the quicktime look? > Thanks.. again Dan > _______________________________________________ > use-revolution mailing list > use-revolution at lists.runrev.com > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution > > From jbondy at sover.net Fri Jun 3 08:23:17 2005 From: jbondy at sover.net (Jon) Date: Fri, 03 Jun 2005 08:23:17 -0400 Subject: player visibility bug? Message-ID: <42A04BB5.20800@sover.net> I am writing a complex media player application. I decided to hide the Player entirely, and use my own buttons instead. When I make the Player invisible, everything stops working, as if I had deleted the Player. Is this what the rest of you would have expected? :) Jon From 3mcgrath at adelphia.net Fri Jun 3 08:31:40 2005 From: 3mcgrath at adelphia.net (Thomas McGrath III) Date: Fri, 3 Jun 2005 08:31:40 -0400 Subject: Property Table Type Doc Index for all entries In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <8ec31e96ebe48fde66a7807c287184ce@adelphia.net> It's actually Tom, and thanks. I will check out the docs and give some feedback later. Tom On Jun 3, 2005, at 1:57 AM, xbury.cs at clearstream.com wrote: > Hi Ken, > > I fixed it temporarily with a zipped file. > > download directly from > > > Something must have gone wrong with the upload... > > thanks for the report > > cheers > Xavier > > On 03/06/2005 00:56:09 use-revolution-bounces wrote: >> Stack is corrupted error trying to open in REV. >> >> >> >> Tom >> >> On Jun 2, 2005, at 5:23 PM, MisterX wrote: >> >>> So here's an example of a typical TAOO ebook that's actually the >>> taoo documentation: >>> http://www.monsieurx.com/modules.php?name=News&file=article&sid=166 >>> >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> use-revolution mailing list >> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution > > > ----------------------------------------- > Visit us at http://www.clearstream.com > IMPORTANT MESSAGE Internet communications are not secure and > therefore > Clearstream International does not accept legal responsibility for the > contents of this message. The information contained in this e-mail > is > confidential and may be legally privileged. It is intended solely for > the > addressee. If you are not the intended recipient, any disclosure, > copying, > distribution or any action taken or omitted to be taken in reliance on > it, > is prohibited and may be unlawful. Any views expressed in this e-mail > are > those of the individual sender, except where the sender specifically > states > them to be the views of Clearstream International or of any of its > affiliates or subsidiaries. END OF DISCLAIMER > _______________________________________________ > use-revolution mailing list > use-revolution at lists.runrev.com > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution > > Thomas J. McGrath III SCS 1000 Killarney Dr. Pittsburgh, PA 15234 412-885-8541 From klaus at major-k.de Fri Jun 3 08:32:37 2005 From: klaus at major-k.de (Klaus Major) Date: Fri, 3 Jun 2005 14:32:37 +0200 Subject: OT fine musical instruments. WAS progress bars In-Reply-To: <42A04AB6.10202@sover.net> References: <429F5BD1.1050101@sover.net> <8B8C6E55-0AF6-4A9A-8306-45E24B9A3279@major-k.de> <42A04AB6.10202@sover.net> Message-ID: Hi Jon, > So, Klaus: do you play a Steinberger guitar? Mon dieux, un connaisseur :-) Although this "headless" design may have been invented by Mr. Ned Steinberger, this is a 6-string frettless bass-guitar made by a german company called "Clover". Like the "original" it is made of carbon graphite*, which makes it almost indestructible and gives it a very clean "hi-fi" sound. And it now serves me VERY well for over 16 years :-) My guitar, (don't have a photo unfortunately) is a Gibson L5 (a very fine and VERY expensive hollowbody jazz guitar) replica from "Aria", a japanese company, and has a beautiful sunburst finish. And that is almost 30 years old :-) > :) > > Jon Best from germany Klaus Major klaus at major-k.de http://www.major-k.de From eric.chatonet at sosmartsoftware.com Fri Jun 3 08:38:15 2005 From: eric.chatonet at sosmartsoftware.com (Eric Chatonet) Date: Fri, 3 Jun 2005 14:38:15 +0200 Subject: player visibility bug? In-Reply-To: <42A04BB5.20800@sover.net> References: <42A04BB5.20800@sover.net> Message-ID: <9EC415AA-25BF-44DD-BCB9-F6FB45A282E1@sosmartsoftware.com> Hi Jon, No, it's not a bug. As a player is designed to play movies, then it stops when it is hidden. It's a normal behaviour: there is nothing to watch :-) So, instead of making your player invisible, let it visible but put it out of the card window area: set the bottomRight of player "MyPlayer" to "-1,-1". Note that you can put any object out of range of the user's action by placing it out of the card window without having to set its visible to false. It's a very old handy trick :-) Best regards from Paris, Eric Chatonet. Le 3 juin 05 ? 14:23, Jon a ?crit : > I am writing a complex media player application. I decided to hide > the Player entirely, and use my own buttons instead. When I make > the Player invisible, everything stops working, as if I had deleted > the Player. Is this what the rest of you would have expected? ---------------------------------------------------------------- So Smart Software For institutions, companies and associations Built-to-order applications: management, multimedia, internet, etc. Windows, Mac OS and Linux... With the French touch Plugins, tutorials and more on our website ---------------------------------------------------------------- Web site http://www.sosmartsoftware.com/ Email eric.chatonet at sosmartsoftware.com/ Phone 33 (0)1 43 31 77 62 Mobile 33 (0)6 20 74 50 86 ---------------------------------------------------------------- From xbury.cs at clearstream.com Fri Jun 3 08:49:02 2005 From: xbury.cs at clearstream.com (xbury.cs at clearstream.com) Date: Fri, 3 Jun 2005 14:49:02 +0200 Subject: Property Table Type Doc Index for all entries In-Reply-To: <8ec31e96ebe48fde66a7807c287184ce@adelphia.net> Message-ID: i was answering Ken's message - must have replied to the wrong message - did i? incredibly heavy week... sorry... sorry for the confusion On 03/06/2005 14:31:40 use-revolution-bounces wrote: >It's actually Tom, and thanks. > >I will check out the docs and give some feedback later. > >Tom > >On Jun 3, 2005, at 1:57 AM, xbury.cs at clearstream.com wrote: > >> Hi Ken, >> >> I fixed it temporarily with a zipped file. >> >> download directly from >> >> >> Something must have gone wrong with the upload... >> >> thanks for the report >> >> cheers >> Xavier >> >> On 03/06/2005 00:56:09 use-revolution-bounces wrote: >>> Stack is corrupted error trying to open in REV. >>> >>> >>> >>> Tom >>> >>> On Jun 2, 2005, at 5:23 PM, MisterX wrote: >>> >>>> So here's an example of a typical TAOO ebook that's actually the >>>> taoo documentation: >>>> http://www.monsieurx.com/modules.php?name=News&file=article&sid=166 >>>> >>>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> use-revolution mailing list >>> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com >>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution >> >> >> ----------------------------------------- >> Visit us at http://www.clearstream.com >> IMPORTANT MESSAGE Internet communications are not secure and >> therefore >> Clearstream International does not accept legal responsibility for the >> contents of this message. The information contained in this e-mail >> is >> confidential and may be legally privileged. It is intended solely for >> the >> addressee. If you are not the intended recipient, any disclosure, >> copying, >> distribution or any action taken or omitted to be taken in reliance on >> it, >> is prohibited and may be unlawful. Any views expressed in this e-mail >> are >> those of the individual sender, except where the sender specifically >> states >> them to be the views of Clearstream International or of any of its >> affiliates or subsidiaries. END OF DISCLAIMER >> _______________________________________________ >> use-revolution mailing list >> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution >> >> > >Thomas J. McGrath III >SCS >1000 Killarney Dr. >Pittsburgh, PA 15234 >412-885-8541 > >_______________________________________________ >use-revolution mailing list >use-revolution at lists.runrev.com >http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution From jbondy at sover.net Fri Jun 3 08:51:08 2005 From: jbondy at sover.net (Jon) Date: Fri, 03 Jun 2005 08:51:08 -0400 Subject: OT fine musical instruments. WAS progress bars In-Reply-To: References: <429F5BD1.1050101@sover.net> <8B8C6E55-0AF6-4A9A-8306-45E24B9A3279@major-k.de> <42A04AB6.10202@sover.net> Message-ID: <42A0523C.1020801@sover.net> Klaus: Check out these URLs. I also have a GL www.jonbondy.com/lacewood1.jpg - custom home-made lacewood guitar with graphite (Moses) neck, TransTrem, and Roland GK-2A pickup www.jonbondy.com/lacewood2.jpg - custom home-made lacewood guitar with Moses neck, custom home-made hard tail bridge, and Ghost piezo pickups End of guitar rant :) Jon Klaus Major wrote: > Hi Jon, > >> So, Klaus: do you play a Steinberger guitar? > > > Mon dieux, un connaisseur :-) > > Although this "headless" design may have been invented by Mr. Ned > Steinberger, > this is a 6-string frettless bass-guitar made by a german company > called "Clover". > > Like the "original" it is made of carbon graphite*, which makes it > almost indestructible > and gives it a very clean "hi-fi" sound. > > And it now serves me VERY well for over 16 years :-) > > My guitar, (don't have a photo unfortunately) is a Gibson L5 (a very > fine and VERY > expensive hollowbody jazz guitar) replica from "Aria", a japanese > company, and > has a beautiful sunburst finish. > > And that is almost 30 years old :-) > >> :) >> >> Jon > > > Best from germany > > Klaus Major > klaus at major-k.de > http://www.major-k.de > > _______________________________________________ > use-revolution mailing list > use-revolution at lists.runrev.com > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution > > From xbury.cs at clearstream.com Fri Jun 3 08:52:25 2005 From: xbury.cs at clearstream.com (xbury.cs at clearstream.com) Date: Fri, 3 Jun 2005 14:52:25 +0200 Subject: Property Table Type Doc Index for all entries In-Reply-To: <8ec31e96ebe48fde66a7807c287184ce@adelphia.net> Message-ID: i just shouldn't work today, i got it all upside down! ;) It was you after all. Apologies Tom... cheers Xavier On 03/06/2005 14:31:40 use-revolution-bounces wrote: >It's actually Tom, and thanks. > >I will check out the docs and give some feedback later. > >Tom > >On Jun 3, 2005, at 1:57 AM, xbury.cs at clearstream.com wrote: > >> Hi Ken, >> >> I fixed it temporarily with a zipped file. >> >> download directly from >> >> >> Something must have gone wrong with the upload... >> >> thanks for the report >> >> cheers >> Xavier >> >> On 03/06/2005 00:56:09 use-revolution-bounces wrote: >>> Stack is corrupted error trying to open in REV. >>> >>> >>> >>> Tom >>> >>> On Jun 2, 2005, at 5:23 PM, MisterX wrote: >>> >>>> So here's an example of a typical TAOO ebook that's actually the >>>> taoo documentation: >>>> http://www.monsieurx.com/modules.php?name=News&file=article&sid=166 >>>> >>>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> use-revolution mailing list >>> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com >>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution >> >> >> ----------------------------------------- >> Visit us at http://www.clearstream.com >> IMPORTANT MESSAGE Internet communications are not secure and >> therefore >> Clearstream International does not accept legal responsibility for the >> contents of this message. The information contained in this e-mail >> is >> confidential and may be legally privileged. It is intended solely for >> the >> addressee. If you are not the intended recipient, any disclosure, >> copying, >> distribution or any action taken or omitted to be taken in reliance on >> it, >> is prohibited and may be unlawful. Any views expressed in this e-mail >> are >> those of the individual sender, except where the sender specifically >> states >> them to be the views of Clearstream International or of any of its >> affiliates or subsidiaries. END OF DISCLAIMER >> _______________________________________________ >> use-revolution mailing list >> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution >> >> > >Thomas J. McGrath III >SCS >1000 Killarney Dr. >Pittsburgh, PA 15234 >412-885-8541 > >_______________________________________________ >use-revolution mailing list >use-revolution at lists.runrev.com >http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution From dcragg at lacscentre.co.uk Fri Jun 3 08:54:10 2005 From: dcragg at lacscentre.co.uk (Dave Cragg) Date: Fri, 3 Jun 2005 13:54:10 +0100 Subject: Protecting Log In Info In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <86BC84DE-7576-457E-B501-EEC2447BA019@lacscentre.co.uk> On 3 Jun 2005, at 02:22, Sivakatirswami wrote: > > set the uLogINs of this stack to "fooNameUser,barPassword" > > scripts can later: > > put item 1 of the uLogINs of this stack into tUser > put item 2 of the uLogINs of this stack into tPassword > > put fld "yourEssayOnWhatever" into url ("ftp:" & tUser & ":" & > tPassword &"@somedomain.com/incoming/newEssay.txt") > > This should work.. but the logIns are unavailable in any context > without the passkey... correct? With a copy of Rev, anyone can access the custom properties in a stack, even if the stack has the password set. So if someone "guesses" the login info is held in a custom property, it wouldn't take them long to find it. > > .and this is about as secure as we can make if where the goal is to > provide an FTP client to a third party that allows uploads to your > server. Where I've had to do this before, I had the the client app load the FTP credentials from a stack held on a web server. The stack was obtained through a CGI which authenticated the request. In this case, the client app itself also had a login system with ID and password, and these login credentials were used as part of the authentication process in the CGI. It wasn't completely secure, but by keeping the credentials on the server instead of embedded in a local stack, it enabled changing the FTP user name and password at any time. Dave From shaosean at unitz.ca Fri Jun 3 09:09:51 2005 From: shaosean at unitz.ca (shaosean at unitz.ca) Date: Fri, 03 Jun 2005 09:09:51 -0400 Subject: Kiosk mode In-Reply-To: <20050603091749.9FFCD930428@mail.runrev.com> References: <20050603091749.9FFCD930428@mail.runrev.com> Message-ID: > > backdrop > VERY minimalistic! > In a hurry? ;-) no.. he just wanted to know what the command was ^_^ From M.Lange at ed.ac.uk Fri Jun 3 09:19:55 2005 From: M.Lange at ed.ac.uk (Marielle Lange) Date: Fri, 03 Jun 2005 14:19:55 +0100 Subject: No subject Message-ID: <1117804795.42a058fbf3635@staffmail.ed.ac.uk> > Any Game Theory adepts in the list? In theory, yes... in practice too many other things to do :-((((. Why not create an entry page on the education wiki, projects page . It's easier to manage for us, educator... we contribute when we can find a week where we can actually do some rev programming (wish could do it more often). Is this: of interest to you? Dynamic programming, game-oriented Thanks for the code, I was looking for a similar solution to another problem. Marielle From klaus at major-k.de Fri Jun 3 09:26:20 2005 From: klaus at major-k.de (Klaus Major) Date: Fri, 3 Jun 2005 15:26:20 +0200 Subject: Kiosk mode In-Reply-To: References: <20050603091749.9FFCD930428@mail.runrev.com> Message-ID: <6421E53E-C90C-4B15-AC16-47AF7949A101@major-k.de> Hi Sean, >>> backdrop >> VERY minimalistic! >> In a hurry? ;-) > > no.. he just wanted to know what the command was ^_^ LOL :-D OK, but nevertheless... ;-) Best from germany Klaus Major klaus at major-k.de http://www.major-k.de From M.Lange at ed.ac.uk Fri Jun 3 09:35:11 2005 From: M.Lange at ed.ac.uk (Marielle Lange) Date: Fri, 03 Jun 2005 14:35:11 +0100 Subject: TAOO Message-ID: <1117805711.42a05c8f8a68c@staffmail.ed.ac.uk> Xavier, I do like your ideas... Printed out the doc and other stuff. It made it in the pile "to read the details"... coming closer and closer from the top of the pile everyday. If we are both lucky, I may get back with questions before a month time ;-). Marielle PS. Do some of you ever do some real work ;-) ??? The days I try to catch up, I receive a new digest in my mailbox as soon I have finished reading the previous one (copy/pasting the precious code, etc.) From b.xavier at internet.lu Fri Jun 3 10:39:58 2005 From: b.xavier at internet.lu (MisterX) Date: Fri, 3 Jun 2005 16:39:58 +0200 Subject: No subject In-Reply-To: <1117804795.42a058fbf3635@staffmail.ed.ac.uk> Message-ID: <20050603135659.95CD4930068@mail.runrev.com> > > Any Game Theory adepts in the list? > > In theory, yes... in practice too many other things to do :-((((. i know the feeling ;) > Why not create an entry page on the education wiki, projects > page > . > It's easier to manage for us, educator... we contribute when > we can find a week where we can actually do some rev > programming (wish could do it more often). i'll give it a try later ;) I'll try to dig out my econ notes too ;) > Is this: > of interest to you? Dynamic programming, game-oriented Nice but in this case a semantical approach is quite a bit more insidious shall we say ;) > Thanks for the code, I was looking for a similar solution to > another problem. That relates to The tao you can describe is not the tao ;) Meaning if it applies elsewhere, it's a better tao/way... cheers Xavier From b.xavier at internet.lu Fri Jun 3 10:45:00 2005 From: b.xavier at internet.lu (MisterX) Date: Fri, 3 Jun 2005 16:45:00 +0200 Subject: TAOO In-Reply-To: <1117805711.42a05c8f8a68c@staffmail.ed.ac.uk> Message-ID: <20050603140201.DD8B29300B3@mail.runrev.com> Thanks Marielle, I know there's a lot to understand in this "new" environment but i tried to put in my best to make it easy and not just for myself ;) The problem there is that the TAOO approach is "integral" and involves all partners at once if you look at it from top to bottom. The other way around and you're swamped with the low level dictionary - too many verbs and objects... ;) Finding the compromise in an example is not easy but the TAOO documentation is probably the simplest and most capable example i've made. But it's not low-level equipped as the library... Just good enough for a smartter ebook cheers Xavier > -----Original Message----- > From: use-revolution-bounces at lists.runrev.com > [mailto:use-revolution-bounces at lists.runrev.com] On Behalf Of > Marielle Lange > Sent: Friday, June 03, 2005 15:35 > To: use-revolution at lists.runrev.com > Subject: TAOO > > Xavier, > > I do like your ideas... Printed out the doc and other stuff. > It made it in the pile "to read the details"... coming closer > and closer from the top of the pile everyday. If we are both > lucky, I may get back with questions before a month time ;-). > > Marielle > > PS. Do some of you ever do some real work ;-) ??? The days I > try to catch up, I receive a new digest in my mailbox as soon > I have finished reading the previous one (copy/pasting the > precious code, etc.) _______________________________________________ > use-revolution mailing list > use-revolution at lists.runrev.com > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution > From bill at bluewatermaritime.com Fri Jun 3 10:50:17 2005 From: bill at bluewatermaritime.com (Bill) Date: Fri, 03 Jun 2005 10:50:17 -0400 Subject: TAOO In-Reply-To: <1117805711.42a05c8f8a68c@staffmail.ed.ac.uk> Message-ID: It's not the amount of work we do. It is the amount of sleep we get. Also attending to ordinary activities (for example looking for a jar of peanut butter) can cut into productivity as much as taking time out to sleep. On 6/3/05 9:35 AM, "Marielle Lange" wrote: > Xavier, > > I do like your ideas... Printed out the doc and other stuff. It made it in the > pile "to read the details"... coming closer and closer from the top of the > pile > everyday. If we are both lucky, I may get back with questions before a month > time ;-). > > Marielle > > PS. Do some of you ever do some real work ;-) ??? The days I try to catch up, > I > receive a new digest in my mailbox as soon I have finished reading the > previous > one (copy/pasting the precious code, etc.) > _______________________________________________ > use-revolution mailing list > use-revolution at lists.runrev.com > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution > > | | | )_) )_) )_) )___))___))___)\ )____)____)_____)\\ _____|____|____|____\\\__ -------\ /--------- http://www.bluewatermaritime.com ^^^^^ ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ ^^^^ ^^^^ ^^^ ^^ ^^^^ ^^^ 24 hour cell: (787) 378-6190 fax: (787) 809-8426 Blue Water Maritime P.O. Box 91 Puerto Real, PR 00740 From revlist at cableone.net Fri Jun 3 11:03:45 2005 From: revlist at cableone.net (Chris Sheffield) Date: Fri, 3 Jun 2005 09:03:45 -0600 Subject: mail client (OT) Message-ID: <3647A261-CA53-43E7-A45B-F5245D48BEFB@cableone.net> I know this is totally off-topic, but as I'm looking for a good mail client to read this user list, I thought I'd ask here. So what's a good one? I've been using Apple Mail, but the fact that it doesn't keep track of the message threads very well is really starting to annoy me. So I'd like to play with something else. Any suggestions? Please excuse the off-topic-ness of this post :-) Chris ------------------------------------------ Chris Sheffield Read Naturally The Fluency Company http://www.readnaturally.com ------------------------------------------ From jdgarcia at organizacionbecerra.com Fri Jun 3 11:08:00 2005 From: jdgarcia at organizacionbecerra.com (Juan de Dios Garcia Diaz) Date: Fri, 3 Jun 2005 10:08:00 -0500 Subject: =?iso-8859-1?q?Alguien_habla_espa=F1ol=3F?= Message-ID: <20050603150804.XJTM12520.apk01fe7@sistemas> Hola, Soy un usuario nuevo en Revolution y me parece una herramienta incre?ble, he aprendido bastante leyendo la lista, pero ?Habr?a alguien de la lista que hablara espa?ol?. ?Hay alg?n grupo en espa?ol? ?Existe algo de documentaci?n en este idioma? Yo vivo en la isla de Cozumel, en M?xico y quisiera saber si mas personas en M?xico u otro pa?s latinoamericano est?n usando Revolution. Juan de Dios Garc?a D?az jdgarcia at organizacionbecerra.com From ambassador at fourthworld.com Fri Jun 3 11:15:31 2005 From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin) Date: Fri, 03 Jun 2005 08:15:31 -0700 Subject: mail client (OT) In-Reply-To: <3647A261-CA53-43E7-A45B-F5245D48BEFB@cableone.net> References: <3647A261-CA53-43E7-A45B-F5245D48BEFB@cableone.net> Message-ID: <42A07413.9070409@fourthworld.com> Chris Sheffield wrote: > I know this is totally off-topic, but as I'm looking for a good mail > client to read this user list, I thought I'd ask here. So what's a > good one? I've been using Apple Mail, but the fact that it doesn't > keep track of the message threads very well is really starting to annoy > me. So I'd like to play with something else. Any suggestions? I love Thunderbird -- secure, flexible, standards-based, regularly updated, and free: -- Richard Gaskin Fourth World Media Corporation ___________________________________________________________ Ambassador at FourthWorld.com http://www.FourthWorld.com From Stgoldberg at aol.com Fri Jun 3 11:18:01 2005 From: Stgoldberg at aol.com (Stgoldberg at aol.com) Date: Fri, 3 Jun 2005 11:18:01 EDT Subject: Question about connecting to the Internet Message-ID: Perhaps someone can help with the following question: Is it possible for Revolution, after clicking on a word, to connect to the Internet (Google e.g.) and automatically paste in the word into Google's search field? Connecting to the Internet is easy (RevGoUrl "http://www.google.com"). And I can also direct Revolution to copy the word first so that the user can then paste the word into Google's search field once the Google page is opened. However, is it possible to do all this automatically, i.e. after clicking on the word, the user is taken directly to Google where the word is automatically pasted in? Thanks. This forum has been very helpful. Steve Goldberg From eric.chatonet at sosmartsoftware.com Fri Jun 3 11:25:17 2005 From: eric.chatonet at sosmartsoftware.com (Eric Chatonet) Date: Fri, 3 Jun 2005 17:25:17 +0200 Subject: Question about connecting to the Internet In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hi Steve, It's quite easy: revGoUrl "http://www.google.com/search?q=" & urlEncode(tWord) The process is very simple: you do it into your web browser and you build the right string in Rev. You will use another strings a bit different depending on the engines :-) Best regards from Paris, Eric Chatonet. Le 3 juin 05 ? 17:18, Stgoldberg at aol.com a ?crit : > Perhaps someone can help with the following question: Is it > possible for > Revolution, after clicking on a word, to connect to the Internet > (Google e.g.) and > automatically paste in the word into Google's search field? > Connecting to > the Internet is easy (RevGoUrl "http://www.google.com"). And I can > also direct > Revolution to copy the word first so that the user can then paste > the word > into Google's search field once the Google page is opened. > However, is it > possible to do all this automatically, i.e. after clicking on the > word, the user > is taken directly to Google where the word is automatically pasted in? > Thanks. This forum has been very helpful. > Steve Goldberg ---------------------------------------------------------------- So Smart Software For institutions, companies and associations Built-to-order applications: management, multimedia, internet, etc. Windows, Mac OS and Linux... With the French touch Plugins, tutorials and more on our website ---------------------------------------------------------------- Web site http://www.sosmartsoftware.com/ Email eric.chatonet at sosmartsoftware.com/ Phone 33 (0)1 43 31 77 62 Mobile 33 (0)6 20 74 50 86 ---------------------------------------------------------------- From revlist at cableone.net Fri Jun 3 11:30:27 2005 From: revlist at cableone.net (Chris Sheffield) Date: Fri, 3 Jun 2005 09:30:27 -0600 Subject: mail client (OT) In-Reply-To: <42A07413.9070409@fourthworld.com> References: <3647A261-CA53-43E7-A45B-F5245D48BEFB@cableone.net> <42A07413.9070409@fourthworld.com> Message-ID: That's kind of what I was thinking of trying. Do you know if Thunderbird will import all my account information from Mail (my messages too would be nice)? On Jun 3, 2005, at 9:15 AM, Richard Gaskin wrote: > Chris Sheffield wrote: > >> I know this is totally off-topic, but as I'm looking for a good >> mail client to read this user list, I thought I'd ask here. So >> what's a good one? I've been using Apple Mail, but the fact that >> it doesn't keep track of the message threads very well is really >> starting to annoy me. So I'd like to play with something else. >> Any suggestions? >> > > I love Thunderbird -- secure, flexible, standards-based, regularly > updated, and free: > > > > -- > Richard Gaskin > Fourth World Media Corporation > ___________________________________________________________ > Ambassador at FourthWorld.com http://www.FourthWorld.com > _______________________________________________ > use-revolution mailing list > use-revolution at lists.runrev.com > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution > From mwieder at ahsoftware.net Fri Jun 3 11:53:18 2005 From: mwieder at ahsoftware.net (Mark Wieder) Date: Fri, 3 Jun 2005 08:53:18 -0700 Subject: possible bug In-Reply-To: <42A042F6.8060004@sover.net> References: <429FAA3A.6030902@sover.net> <16943993238.20050602200816@ahsoftware.net> <42A042F6.8060004@sover.net> Message-ID: <17589895082.20050603085318@ahsoftware.net> Jon- Friday, June 3, 2005, 4:45:58 AM, you wrote: J> Here is a better URL for RevZilla: J> http://www.sonsothunder.com/devres/revolution/downloads/RevZilla.htm Sure, but if you go straight there you miss all the other cool stuff on Ken's site. -- -Mark Wieder mwieder at ahsoftware.net From rev at armbase.com Fri Jun 3 11:55:00 2005 From: rev at armbase.com (rev at armbase.com) Date: Fri, 03 Jun 2005 16:55:00 +0100 Subject: mail client (OT) In-Reply-To: <3647A261-CA53-43E7-A45B-F5245D48BEFB@cableone.net> References: <3647A261-CA53-43E7-A45B-F5245D48BEFB@cableone.net> Message-ID: <1117814100.42a07d542331b@webmail.armbase.com> Quoting Chris Sheffield : > I know this is totally off-topic, but as I'm looking for a good mail > client to read this user list, I thought I'd ask here. So what's a > good one? I've been using Apple Mail, but the fact that it doesn't > keep track of the message threads very well is really starting to > annoy me. So I'd like to play with something else. Any suggestions? Yes Gemini mail. I tried thunderbird and it is very good and free. It has "toggle on threads" so mails can be threaded. However, there are some limitations to thunderbird. When you toggle on the thread you have them nicely grouped, however, when you then "sort" the threaded mails it loses the thread action unless you rethread. When you consider the time you spend on email, it is well worth paying for a client that will do exacctley everything that you require. Gemini is great for this and has been on RISC OS for years. It costs money, but like all good things is money well spent. You can trial it heren and see a screenshot http://www.intellegit.com/software/gemini/ cheers bob (no affiliation) > > Please excuse the off-topic-ness of this post :-) > > Chris > > > > ------------------------------------------ > Chris Sheffield > Read Naturally > The Fluency Company > http://www.readnaturally.com > ------------------------------------------ > > > _______________________________________________ > use-revolution mailing list > use-revolution at lists.runrev.com > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution > From mwieder at ahsoftware.net Fri Jun 3 11:59:14 2005 From: mwieder at ahsoftware.net (Mark Wieder) Date: Fri, 3 Jun 2005 08:59:14 -0700 Subject: OT fine musical instruments. WAS progress bars In-Reply-To: References: <429F5BD1.1050101@sover.net><42A04AB6.10202@sover.net> Message-ID: <15790250933.20050603085914@ahsoftware.net> Klaus- Friday, June 3, 2005, 5:32:37 AM, you wrote: KM> this is a 6-string frettless bass-guitar made by a german company KM> called "Clover". I have a very hard time getting used to even *5*-string basses. The additional freedom afforded by the extra string starts imprinting new possibilities for playing lines in my head. Then when I switch to my upright my brain gets stuck because I have to rethink those lines. After borrowing a friend's 5-string for a gig a while back I made the decision a long time ago to stop at four. -- -Mark Wieder mwieder at ahsoftware.net From Stgoldberg at aol.com Fri Jun 3 11:58:49 2005 From: Stgoldberg at aol.com (Stgoldberg at aol.com) Date: Fri, 3 Jun 2005 11:58:49 EDT Subject: Problem with saving standalone Message-ID: <12b.5e603ab0.2fd1d839@aol.com> I have a stack I'm working on, which when I want to save as a standalone (for either Mac or Windows) comes up with the message "There was an error saving the standalone application." I can't figure out why, since other stacks save easily as standalones. I'm using Mac OS X (Panther). There are about 135 cards in the stack, with only one small graphic and scripting that isn't especially fancy. Can anyone suggest what might be wrong and how I might go about correcting this? Thanks very much. Steve Goldberg From ambassador at fourthworld.com Fri Jun 3 12:02:32 2005 From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin) Date: Fri, 03 Jun 2005 09:02:32 -0700 Subject: mail client (OT) In-Reply-To: References: <3647A261-CA53-43E7-A45B-F5245D48BEFB@cableone.net> <42A07413.9070409@fourthworld.com> Message-ID: <42A07F18.8000403@fourthworld.com> Chris Sheffield wrote: >>> I know this is totally off-topic, but as I'm looking for a good >>> mail client to read this user list, I thought I'd ask here. So >>> what's a good one? I've been using Apple Mail, but the fact that >>> it doesn't keep track of the message threads very well is really >>> starting to annoy me. So I'd like to play with something else. >>> Any suggestions? >> >> I love Thunderbird -- secure, flexible, standards-based, regularly >> updated, and free: >> > > That's kind of what I was thinking of trying. Do you know if > Thunderbird will import all my account information from Mail (my > messages too would be nice)? Hard to say. After having been burned by Apple's email discontinuations in the past (iWorld and later the Emailer bundle) I don't trust them with anything as critical to me as email. I need longevity more than I need pre-installation. :) So without the benefit of having used Mail, I can only report what I hear: older versions are said to have used the standard MDB format for the mail database, though this is said to have been abandoned with Tiger. So if you're still pre-Tiger it may work well, and there may also be AppleScripts and/or other solutions as well. Given the number of Mac folks who use Thunderbird, I'd be surprised if their forum didn't turn up an instant solution. -- Richard Gaskin Fourth World Media Corporation __________________________________________________ Rev tools and more: http://www.fourthworld.com/rev From b.xavier at internet.lu Fri Jun 3 12:09:30 2005 From: b.xavier at internet.lu (MisterX) Date: Fri, 3 Jun 2005 18:09:30 +0200 Subject: =?iso-8859-1?q?RE=3A_Alguien_habla_espa=F1ol=3F?= In-Reply-To: <20050603150804.XJTM12520.apk01fe7@sistemas> Message-ID: <20050603152632.7D264930114@mail.runrev.com> Hola Juan problema es que la lista esta en ingles compadre! Tampoco vivo cerca pero siempre te podemos ayudar... Y si hay mas sudamericanos! Has tratado la traduccion de Google o babelfish? Bienvenido y hasta pronto! Xavier > -----Original Message----- > From: use-revolution-bounces at lists.runrev.com > [mailto:use-revolution-bounces at lists.runrev.com] On Behalf Of > Juan de Dios Garcia Diaz > Sent: Friday, June 03, 2005 17:08 > To: use-revolution at lists.runrev.com > Subject: Alguien habla espa?ol? > > Hola, > > > > Soy un usuario nuevo en Revolution y me parece una > herramienta incre?ble, he aprendido bastante leyendo la > lista, pero ?Habr?a alguien de la lista que hablara espa?ol?. > ?Hay alg?n grupo en espa?ol? ?Existe algo de documentaci?n en > este idioma? Yo vivo en la isla de Cozumel, en M?xico y > quisiera saber si mas personas en M?xico u otro pa?s > latinoamericano est?n usando Revolution. > > > > > > Juan de Dios Garc?a D?az > > jdgarcia at organizacionbecerra.com > > > > _______________________________________________ > use-revolution mailing list > use-revolution at lists.runrev.com > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution > From eric.chatonet at sosmartsoftware.com Fri Jun 3 12:15:24 2005 From: eric.chatonet at sosmartsoftware.com (Eric Chatonet) Date: Fri, 3 Jun 2005 18:15:24 +0200 Subject: [ANN] Tutorials Picker 1.0 Message-ID: <09B9A497-A9F9-47E2-9AB3-14F73CB2455C@sosmartsoftware.com> Hi everyone, Yesterday, I posted a press release preview about the new plugins I am releasing. Today, everything is operational and is official :-) Tutorials Picker 1.0 - Real time access to the So Smart Software tutorials - Freeware Tutorials Picker interfaces with my website in order to display all available tutorials directly from the web. By using it you are sure to always have access to the last updates and the new releases. Tutorials Picker provides automatic notification of new releases, shows which tutorials you have already visited, which tutorials have been updated since your last visit, etc. Broadband Internet recommended. English only. Tutorials Picker 1.0 is available from http://www.sosmartsoftware.com/ It's also available from Rev Online (user: So Smart Software) and will be available from RevNet in a few hours :-) The How-To stacks are no longer available directly from Rev Online (and shortly from RevNet) but, for those who would absolutely download them (as dead files on their hard-drive :-), this can be done per unit from the new tutorials section of my website. The tutorials already available deal with the following topics: How to display and manage Answer Dialogs How to display and manage Ask Dialogs How to build and manage dynamic menus How to manage tabbed buttons How to manage user waiting time How to drag and drop for files and folders How to drag and drop images and different ways to store images How to manage HTML lists on-the-fly How to manage contextual tooltips on-the-fly How to magnify images and only images How to change card dimensions How to install brushed metal appearance on all platforms How to manage "Snap to" scrollbars How to fix stack decorations (titlebar appearance) How to ask for a password How to use table fields All are free, Other are in the works... Have a good week-end, Best regards from Paris, Eric Chatonet. ---------------------------------------------------------------- So Smart Software For institutions, companies and associations Built-to-order applications: management, multimedia, internet, etc. Windows, Mac OS and Linux... With the French touch Plugins, tutorials and more on our website ---------------------------------------------------------------- Web site http://www.sosmartsoftware.com/ Email eric.chatonet at sosmartsoftware.com/ Phone 33 (0)1 43 31 77 62 Mobile 33 (0)6 20 74 50 86 ---------------------------------------------------------------- From eric.chatonet at sosmartsoftware.com Fri Jun 3 12:15:31 2005 From: eric.chatonet at sosmartsoftware.com (Eric Chatonet) Date: Fri, 3 Jun 2005 18:15:31 +0200 Subject: [ANN] Report Picker 1.0 Message-ID: <4BB95FD4-1C46-428F-BA83-653AA1E03888@sosmartsoftware.com> Hi everyone, Yesterday, I posted a press release preview about the new plugins I am releasing. Today, everything is operational and is official :-) Report Picker 1.0 - Programming archiving plugin for DreamCard/ Revolution - Freeware Report Picker creates smart reports on your projects and keeps them in its library. Contents specifications (scripts, global variables and properties, objects properties, custom properties, etc.) Reports management, powerful search tool, export as text function, etc. Bilingual help stack included. Identical appearance on all platforms. Report Picker 1.0 is available from http://www.sosmartsoftware.com/ Have a good week-end, Best regards from Paris, Eric Chatonet. ---------------------------------------------------------------- So Smart Software For institutions, companies and associations Built-to-order applications: management, multimedia, internet, etc. Windows, Mac OS and Linux... With the French touch Plugins, tutorials and more on our website ---------------------------------------------------------------- Web site http://www.sosmartsoftware.com/ Email eric.chatonet at sosmartsoftware.com/ Phone 33 (0)1 43 31 77 62 Mobile 33 (0)6 20 74 50 86 ---------------------------------------------------------------- From eric.chatonet at sosmartsoftware.com Fri Jun 3 12:15:36 2005 From: eric.chatonet at sosmartsoftware.com (Eric Chatonet) Date: Fri, 3 Jun 2005 18:15:36 +0200 Subject: [ANN] Windows Picker 1.0 Message-ID: <6E67924F-7563-4468-8B94-C1B9EBC1AEE5@sosmartsoftware.com> Hi everyone, Yesterday, I posted a press release preview about the new plugins I am releasing. Today, after the last changes *, everything is operational and is official :-) Windows Picker 1.0 - On-screen windows management plugin for DreamCard/Revolution - Freeware Windows Picker lets you "dock" any window and call it up on-screen again with a click. Storage in 3 categories : stacks, scripts/property palettes and IDE tools. Specification of colors, possible sound and visual effects. Bilingual help stack included. Identical appearance on all platforms. Report Picker 1.0 is only available from http://www.sosmartsoftware.com/ * I aplogize to Win users (Not Mac ones :-) who have already downloaded Windows Picker before receiving this mail: the software needed minor correction: they have been done. Have a good week-end, Best regards from Paris, Eric Chatonet. ---------------------------------------------------------------- So Smart Software For institutions, companies and associations Built-to-order applications: management, multimedia, internet, etc. Windows, Mac OS and Linux... With the French touch Plugins, tutorials and more on our website ---------------------------------------------------------------- Web site http://www.sosmartsoftware.com/ Email eric.chatonet at sosmartsoftware.com/ Phone 33 (0)1 43 31 77 62 Mobile 33 (0)6 20 74 50 86 ---------------------------------------------------------------- From jacque at hyperactivesw.com Fri Jun 3 12:13:19 2005 From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay) Date: Fri, 03 Jun 2005 11:13:19 -0500 Subject: player visibility bug? In-Reply-To: <9EC415AA-25BF-44DD-BCB9-F6FB45A282E1@sosmartsoftware.com> References: <42A04BB5.20800@sover.net> <9EC415AA-25BF-44DD-BCB9-F6FB45A282E1@sosmartsoftware.com> Message-ID: <42A0819F.1040909@hyperactivesw.com> On 6/3/05 7:38 AM, Eric Chatonet wrote: > Hi Jon, > > No, it's not a bug. > As a player is designed to play movies, then it stops when it is hidden. Actually, I think this only happens on Windows. On Macs, hidden players continue to play. So it is maybe a sort-of, kind-of, partial bug. The workaround is easy though, and I usually just set the location of the player offscreen for all platforms. -- Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com From eric.chatonet at sosmartsoftware.com Fri Jun 3 12:25:01 2005 From: eric.chatonet at sosmartsoftware.com (Eric Chatonet) Date: Fri, 3 Jun 2005 18:25:01 +0200 Subject: player visibility bug? In-Reply-To: <42A0819F.1040909@hyperactivesw.com> References: <42A04BB5.20800@sover.net> <9EC415AA-25BF-44DD-BCB9-F6FB45A282E1@sosmartsoftware.com> <42A0819F.1040909@hyperactivesw.com> Message-ID: <30BEC22B-45EB-45AA-B32A-5FE2F7316EE2@sosmartsoftware.com> Hi Jacque, As I do it usually, I verified with a QT movie before answering (Mac OS 10.4.1 - Rev build 77): on mouseUp start player 1 wait 1 second with messages hide player 1 -- then stops end mouseUp on mouseUp start player 1 wait 1 second with messages set the botRight of player 1 to "-1,-1" -- does not stop (of course and fortunately :-) end mouseUp Best regards from Paris, Eric Chatonet. Le 3 juin 05 ? 18:13, J. Landman Gay a ?crit : > On 6/3/05 7:38 AM, Eric Chatonet wrote: > >> Hi Jon, >> No, it's not a bug. >> As a player is designed to play movies, then it stops when it is >> hidden. >> > > Actually, I think this only happens on Windows. On Macs, hidden > players continue to play. So it is maybe a sort-of, kind-of, > partial bug. The workaround is easy though, and I usually just set > the location of the player offscreen for all platforms. ---------------------------------------------------------------- So Smart Software For institutions, companies and associations Built-to-order applications: management, multimedia, internet, etc. Windows, Mac OS and Linux... With the French touch Plugins, tutorials and more on our website ---------------------------------------------------------------- Web site http://www.sosmartsoftware.com/ Email eric.chatonet at sosmartsoftware.com/ Phone 33 (0)1 43 31 77 62 Mobile 33 (0)6 20 74 50 86 ---------------------------------------------------------------- From jhurley at infostations.com Fri Jun 3 12:38:22 2005 From: jhurley at infostations.com (Jim Hurley) Date: Fri, 3 Jun 2005 09:38:22 -0700 Subject: How do I script for the effect of menu item "Reshape Graphic" In-Reply-To: <20050603015816.4FBFA9303F3@mail.runrev.com> References: <20050603015816.4FBFA9303F3@mail.runrev.com> Message-ID: > >Message: 13 >Date: Thu, 02 Jun 2005 17:13:01 -0700 >From: Richard Gaskin >Subject: Re: How do I script for the effect of menu item "Reshape > Graphic" >To: How to use Revolution >Message-ID: <429FA08D.4060606 at fourthworld.com> >Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed > >Jim Hurley wrote: >>> Those are the markerPoints. They give the corners of the little shape >>> used for the marker. >> >> Thanks Jeanne. That was very helpful. >> >> I see what my problem was. I was setting the MarkerDraw property to >> true, but there were no marker points to be drawn until I had called >> Reshape Graphic from the Object menu. >> >> Apparently, if the marker points are empty, Reshape Graphic constructs a >> small 33 point closed, filled polygon to simulate a blackened circle. >> >> I would like to see how RR does this but I have forgotten how to peek at >> a RR menu script. Could you refresh my memory? > >Marker points are a tease if what you're looking for is the equivalent >of SuperCard's editPoints property, as the engine's marker points can be >seen but do not respond to clicks. > >You could dig into Rev scripts with devolution easily enough, but the >scripted implementation has some unusual aspects to its behavior. Also, >for even someone as experienced as yourself, we find that it's not >straightforward to implement, esp. compared with SuperCard's one-liner. > >It was a cool hack as a workaround before Rev owned the engine, but now >that they own it there's a request to raise the bar to implement the >behavior in the engine natively to allow us to build things on the order >of SuperCard's SampleDraw (or MacDraw or any basic drawing environment): > > > > >If such drawing environments are of interest and you need to present >them in scrolling document windows, you may also be interested in: > > > >-- > Richard Gaskin > Fourth World Media Corporation Developer of WebMerge: Publish any database on any Web site Richard, I'm afraid I've forgotten what little I had learned of SuperCard. I did note that Kevin said during a recent programming conference that there are upgrades coming in Rev's graphics capabilities. Anxiously awaiting. Along the lines of programmability of markerpoints, I would hope that if RR offers bezier graphics, that the handles are programmable, unlike the current marker points--or maybe they are, but I don't know how. I have in mind applications in which the user is allowed to manipulate bezier handles to change the graphic shape *and* act upon the results. For example, the handles could be programmed to report the new area within the closed bezier polygon--easy to do. I am thinking in particular of my Manning Formula Calculator which needs the perimeter and area inside the bezier closed polygon in order to calculate flow rates in the canal. Wish I could respond more intelligently to your comments about the engine's implantation of graphic reshaping. Even after a couple of years of use, I still find myself overwhelmed by RR's potential. Watching the Fedder/Nadal tennis match as I write this. I feel about RR the way I would if I were on court against either of these two. Don't understand how Maria Sharapova's lost. She is soooo cute. Jim From revinfo1155 at aol.com Fri Jun 3 12:45:47 2005 From: revinfo1155 at aol.com (revinfo1155 at aol.com) Date: Fri, 03 Jun 2005 12:45:47 -0400 Subject: sort question In-Reply-To: <4BB95FD4-1C46-428F-BA83-653AA1E03888@sosmartsoftware.com> References: <4BB95FD4-1C46-428F-BA83-653AA1E03888@sosmartsoftware.com> Message-ID: <8C73672D3C9F525-AEC-29F2@mblk-r41.sysops.aol.com> Greetings, I need a field to sort numerically and when I try it I get the result below. I checked the docs and experimented with the numberformat without success. Help! jack 1.101- 10.101- 10.201- 10.301.1- 10.351- 10.401- 10.501- 11.101.1- 11.151- 2.101- 2.301- 20.101- 3.101- 4.101- 4.991- 5.101.1- 5.151- 5.201- 5.301- 5.351.1- 5.401- 5.451- 5.501- 5.651- 5.701- 6.101.1- 6.201.1- 6.301- 6.401.1- 7.101- 7.151.1- 7.201.1- 7.251- 7.401- 7.501.1- 8.101- 8.301- 9.101.1- 9.351- From alex at tweedly.net Fri Jun 3 12:50:49 2005 From: alex at tweedly.net (Alex Tweedly) Date: Fri, 03 Jun 2005 17:50:49 +0100 Subject: TAOO In-Reply-To: <1117805711.42a05c8f8a68c@staffmail.ed.ac.uk> References: <1117805711.42a05c8f8a68c@staffmail.ed.ac.uk> Message-ID: <42A08A69.90100@tweedly.net> Marielle Lange wrote: >PS. Do some of you ever do some real work ;-) ??? The days I try to catch up, I >receive a new digest in my mailbox as soon I have finished reading the previous >one (copy/pasting the precious code, etc. > > I tried digests once - found it much harder to keep up .... I find it easy to get the individual emails, filter them into a separate mailbox - and read them when I have time. And if I do want to reply to one, or to keep one for later use of the code, it's easier that way ... -- Alex Tweedly http://www.tweedly.net -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.322 / Virus Database: 267.5.2 - Release Date: 03/06/2005 From Stgoldberg at aol.com Fri Jun 3 12:54:06 2005 From: Stgoldberg at aol.com (Stgoldberg at aol.com) Date: Fri, 3 Jun 2005 12:54:06 EDT Subject: Question about connecting to the Internet Message-ID: <19a.351e468f.2fd1e52e@aol.com> Thanks Eric! This is a great convenience and should prove very useful to educators who want to enable their students to connect directly to Internet searches without intermediate steps. This forum is great! Steve Goldberg In a message dated 6/3/05 12:43:27 PM, use-revolution-request at lists.runrev.com writes: > Date: Fri, 3 Jun 2005 17:25:17 +0200 > From: Eric Chatonet > Subject: Re: Question about connecting to the Internet > To: How to use Revolution > Message-ID: > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; delsp=yes; format=flowed > > Hi Steve, > > It's quite easy: > > revGoUrl "http://www.google.com/search?q=" & urlEncode(tWord) > > The process is very simple: you do it into your web browser and you? > build the right string in Rev. > You will use another strings a bit different depending on the? > engines :-) > > Best regards from Paris, > > Eric Chatonet. > > Le 3 juin 05 ? 17:18, Stgoldberg at aol.com a ?crit : > > > Perhaps someone can help with the following question: Is it? > > possible for > > Revolution, after clicking on a word, to connect to the Internet? > > (Google e.g.) and > > automatically paste in the word into Google's search field?? ? > > Connecting to > > the Internet is easy (RevGoUrl "http://www.google.com"). And I can? > > also direct > > Revolution to?? copy the word first so that the user can then paste? > > the word > > into Google's search field once the Google page is opened.? ? > > However, is it > > possible to do all this automatically, i.e. after clicking on the? > > word, the user > > is taken directly to Google where the word is automatically pasted in? > > Thanks.?? This forum has been very helpful. > > Steve Goldberg > From wouter.abraham at scarlet.be Fri Jun 3 13:01:29 2005 From: wouter.abraham at scarlet.be (Wouter) Date: Fri, 3 Jun 2005 19:01:29 +0200 Subject: sort question In-Reply-To: <8C73672D3C9F525-AEC-29F2@mblk-r41.sysops.aol.com> References: <4BB95FD4-1C46-428F-BA83-653AA1E03888@sosmartsoftware.com> <8C73672D3C9F525-AEC-29F2@mblk-r41.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <9DF3171E-8BAC-4405-96BA-37CA29FD59DB@scarlet.be> Hi Jack, You could do for example: on mouseUp get field 1 sort it set the itemdelimiter to "." sort lines of it numeric ascending by item 1 of each put it into fld 2 end mouseUp Greetings, Wouter On 03 Jun 2005, at 18:45, revinfo1155 at aol.com wrote: > Greetings, > > I need a field to sort numerically and when I try it I get the > result below. I checked the docs and experimented with the > numberformat without success. Help! > > jack > > > > 1.101- > 10.101- > 10.201- > 10.301.1- > 10.351- > 10.401- > 10.501- > 11.101.1- > 11.151- > 2.101- > 2.301- > 20.101- > 3.101- > 4.101- > 4.991- > 5.101.1- > 5.151- > 5.201- > 5.301- > 5.351.1- > 5.401- > 5.451- > 5.501- > 5.651- > 5.701- > 6.101.1- > 6.201.1- > 6.301- > 6.401.1- > 7.101- > 7.151.1- > 7.201.1- > 7.251- > 7.401- > 7.501.1- > 8.101- > 8.301- > 9.101.1- > 9.351- > _______________________________________________ > use-revolution mailing list > use-revolution at lists.runrev.com > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution > From b.xavier at internet.lu Fri Jun 3 13:05:02 2005 From: b.xavier at internet.lu (MisterX) Date: Fri, 3 Jun 2005 19:05:02 +0200 Subject: TAOO In-Reply-To: <42A08A69.90100@tweedly.net> Message-ID: <20050603162202.87F3293005D@mail.runrev.com> Digests should be banned IMOHO :) With single emails you can easily see the thread, can you do that in digest? Sort by author, date, etc... Can you find the next mail with that subject? You have to load of data to get through to find a small part. Replying is horrible if you dont take the time to clean up after... Are there maillist-digest "aware" email clients out there that i dont know of? Could be added to the TAOO email agent/client template... wouldn't be hard... but i haven't replaced outlook for rev... i'd rather not given the load... cheers Xavier > -----Original Message----- > From: use-revolution-bounces at lists.runrev.com > [mailto:use-revolution-bounces at lists.runrev.com] On Behalf Of > Alex Tweedly > Sent: Friday, June 03, 2005 18:51 > To: How to use Revolution > Subject: Re: TAOO > > Marielle Lange wrote: > > >PS. Do some of you ever do some real work ;-) ??? The days I try to > >catch up, I receive a new digest in my mailbox as soon I > have finished > >reading the previous one (copy/pasting the precious code, etc. > > > > > I tried digests once - found it much harder to keep up .... > I find it easy to get the individual emails, filter them into > a separate mailbox - and read them when I have time. And if I > do want to reply to one, or to keep one for later use of the > code, it's easier that way ... > > -- > Alex Tweedly http://www.tweedly.net > > > > -- > No virus found in this outgoing message. > Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. > Version: 7.0.322 / Virus Database: 267.5.2 - Release Date: 03/06/2005 > > _______________________________________________ > use-revolution mailing list > use-revolution at lists.runrev.com > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution > From jacque at hyperactivesw.com Fri Jun 3 13:17:15 2005 From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay) Date: Fri, 03 Jun 2005 12:17:15 -0500 Subject: player visibility bug? In-Reply-To: <30BEC22B-45EB-45AA-B32A-5FE2F7316EE2@sosmartsoftware.com> References: <42A04BB5.20800@sover.net> <9EC415AA-25BF-44DD-BCB9-F6FB45A282E1@sosmartsoftware.com> <42A0819F.1040909@hyperactivesw.com> <30BEC22B-45EB-45AA-B32A-5FE2F7316EE2@sosmartsoftware.com> Message-ID: <42A0909B.4020400@hyperactivesw.com> On 6/3/05 11:25 AM, Eric Chatonet wrote: > Hi Jacque, > > As I do it usually, I verified with a QT movie before answering (Mac OS > 10.4.1 - Rev build 77): Okay, I believe you. :) I had a commercial app written in an older version of Revolution and the Mac player worked while hidden but the Windows player did not. So maybe they changed things to be more consistent now. Or, maybe the Mac player worked because it was always hidden. I did not show it and hide it from a script. Or maybe it worked because I wasn't playing a QT movie, I was playing sound files in a player. I haven't had time to re-test this though. -- Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com From jacque at hyperactivesw.com Fri Jun 3 13:32:14 2005 From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay) Date: Fri, 03 Jun 2005 12:32:14 -0500 Subject: Problem with saving standalone In-Reply-To: <12b.5e603ab0.2fd1d839@aol.com> References: <12b.5e603ab0.2fd1d839@aol.com> Message-ID: <42A0941E.5030407@hyperactivesw.com> On 6/3/05 10:58 AM, Stgoldberg at aol.com wrote: > I have a stack I'm working on, which when I want to save as a standalone (for > either Mac or Windows) comes up with the message "There was an error saving > the standalone application." I can't figure out why, since other stacks save > easily as standalones. I've been collecting a list of possible causes. Check these things: 1. The path to the stack contains non-ASCII characters, such as diacritical marks or accent marks. Avoid the use of accented or non-ASCII characters in path names. 2. The standalone builder is set to search for inclusions but the stack is password protected. Select the inclusions manually instead, or remove the password. 3. Alternately, the standalone builder may be having trouble searching for the required inclusions regardless of password protection. Turn off "Search for required inclusions" and turn on "Select inclusions for the standalone application." Then choose the resources you need to include yourself in the Standalone Settings dialog. 4. The folder name is the same as your standalone's name. You need a unique folder name; make sure you select an empty folder with a name different from the standalone's name. If you have previously built a standalone from the same stack, do not try to build a new one into the same folder. Trying to overwrite an existing standalone with a new one can casue problems. Rename or remove the old folder first, and then build. 5. Your source stack's file name does not use an extension, or uses an incorrect extension. Make sure your stack's file name ends with the extension ".rev" 6. Your source stack contains duplicate "message box" or "ask" or "answer" dialogs. Remove the embedded stacks and let the standalone builder add them instead. (This usually only occurs with stacks originally created in MetaCard.) Make sure you have done "Check for updates" to be sure you have the most recent version of the standalone settings stack. -- Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com From rev at armbase.com Fri Jun 3 13:40:06 2005 From: rev at armbase.com (Bob Hartley) Date: Fri, 3 Jun 2005 18:40:06 +0100 Subject: clear fields Message-ID: Hi All I have a script that clears the contents of fields in cards. on mouseUp repeat with x = 1 to the number of flds put empty into fld x end repeat end mouseUp Now this works ok except that the card has some labels and the script clears the label contents. All the text fields are called field1, field2 etc so I thought of doing this on mouseUp repeat with x = 1 to the number of flds if the name of fld x is "field &*" then put empty into fld x end repeat end mouseUp But I don't ge tthe fields clearing. I tried variations on the "field & *" etc without any luck. Any ideas Cheers Bob From eric.chatonet at sosmartsoftware.com Fri Jun 3 13:42:09 2005 From: eric.chatonet at sosmartsoftware.com (Eric Chatonet) Date: Fri, 3 Jun 2005 19:42:09 +0200 Subject: player visibility bug? In-Reply-To: <42A0909B.4020400@hyperactivesw.com> References: <42A04BB5.20800@sover.net> <9EC415AA-25BF-44DD-BCB9-F6FB45A282E1@sosmartsoftware.com> <42A0819F.1040909@hyperactivesw.com> <30BEC22B-45EB-45AA-B32A-5FE2F7316EE2@sosmartsoftware.com> <42A0909B.4020400@hyperactivesw.com> Message-ID: <8A02E046-585C-4B87-9751-C06896359B81@sosmartsoftware.com> Hi Jacque, I did not want to hurt you. Sometimes, my bad english makes things seemingly a little bit hard... And I found it when I read again my mail... Do you want to excuse me? On the other hand, I dug the question by testing if there was a difference when the file did not have any video track: that's should have shown how much the engine is precise :-) Infortunately not. Best regards from Paris, Eric Chatonet. Le 3 juin 05 ? 19:17, J. Landman Gay a ?crit : > On 6/3/05 11:25 AM, Eric Chatonet wrote: > > > Hi Jacque, > > > > As I do it usually, I verified with a QT movie before answering > (Mac OS > > 10.4.1 - Rev build 77): > > Okay, I believe you. :) > > I had a commercial app written in an older version of Revolution > and the Mac player worked while hidden but the Windows player did > not. So maybe they changed things to be more consistent now. > > Or, maybe the Mac player worked because it was always hidden. I did > not show it and hide it from a script. Or maybe it worked because I > wasn't playing a QT movie, I was playing sound files in a player. I > haven't had time to re-test this though. ---------------------------------------------------------------- So Smart Software For institutions, companies and associations Built-to-order applications: management, multimedia, internet, etc. Windows, Mac OS and Linux... With the French touch Plugins, tutorials and more on our website ---------------------------------------------------------------- Web site http://www.sosmartsoftware.com/ Email eric.chatonet at sosmartsoftware.com/ Phone 33 (0)1 43 31 77 62 Mobile 33 (0)6 20 74 50 86 ---------------------------------------------------------------- From jimlyons at earthlink.net Fri Jun 3 13:55:25 2005 From: jimlyons at earthlink.net (Jim Lyons) Date: Fri, 3 Jun 2005 13:55:25 -0400 Subject: Rev. User Groups in the USA? In-Reply-To: <20050603091750.4D9F59300E8@mail.runrev.com> References: <20050603091750.4D9F59300E8@mail.runrev.com> Message-ID: <7abbebb2ffd5a9f83d0592ab129dae85@earthlink.net> I am in Tallahassee, Florida and would travel to Atlanta, Jacksonville, Orlando, etc to attend a RevCon, and I would help support a regional group. Thanks. Jim Lyons On Jun 3, 2005, at 5:17 AM, Kat wrote: > What about a Southeast RUG? I'm in east central coast of Florida, but > have a son in the Hotlanta area I wouldn't mind visiting now and then > ;-) Anybody else from around here? > > Cheers, > Kat From klaus at major-k.de Fri Jun 3 13:57:48 2005 From: klaus at major-k.de (Klaus Major) Date: Fri, 3 Jun 2005 19:57:48 +0200 Subject: clear fields In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hi Bob, > Hi All > > I have a script that clears the contents of fields in cards. > > on mouseUp > repeat with x = 1 to the number of flds > put empty into fld x > end repeat > end mouseUp > > Now this works ok except that the card has some labels and the > script clears > the label contents. > > All the text fields are called field1, field2 etc > > so I thought of doing this > on mouseUp > repeat with x = 1 to the number of flds > if the name of fld x is "field &*" > then put empty into fld x > end repeat > end mouseUp > > But I don't ge tthe fields clearing. I tried variations on the > "field & *" > etc without any luck. sorry, but "*", if used as a wildcard, only works with "filter" and regex... > Any ideas But you could use: on mouseUp repeat with x = 1 to the number of flds if the short name of fld x CONTAINS "field" then put empty into fld x end if end repeat end mouseUp Hope that helps... > Cheers > Bob Best Klaus Major klaus at major-k.de http://www.major-k.de From rev at armbase.com Fri Jun 3 14:02:37 2005 From: rev at armbase.com (Bob Hartley) Date: Fri, 3 Jun 2005 19:02:37 +0100 Subject: clear fields In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: You wrote: > Hi All > > I have a script that clears the contents of fields in cards. > > on mouseUp > repeat with x = 1 to the number of flds > put empty into fld x > end repeat end mouseUp > > Now this works ok except that the card has some labels and the script > clears the label contents. > > All the text fields are called field1, field2 etc > > so I thought of doing this on mouseUp > repeat with x = 1 to the number of flds > if the name of fld x is "field &*" > then put empty into fld x > end repeat end mouseUp > > But I don't ge tthe fields clearing. I tried variations on the "field & *" Then I thought that since the field is number x and the fields are field1, field2 etc then on mouseUp repeat with x = 1 to the number of flds if the name of fld x is "field" & "x" then put empty into fld x end repeat end mouseUp No luck there bob > etc without any luck. > > Any ideas > > Cheers Bob _______________________________________________ use-revolution > mailing list use-revolution at lists.runrev.com > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution > From rev at armbase.com Fri Jun 3 14:07:34 2005 From: rev at armbase.com (Bob Hartley) Date: Fri, 3 Jun 2005 19:07:34 +0100 Subject: clear fields In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: You wrote: > Hi Bob, > Hi Klaus > But you could use: > > on mouseUp > repeat with x = 1 to the number of flds > if the short name of fld x CONTAINS "field" then > put empty into fld x > end if > end repeat > end mouseUp > > Hope that helps... Helps?????? Absolutely brilliant the short name is one to remember. Thanks again. Cheers Bob > > > Cheers Bob > > Best > > Klaus Major klaus at major-k.de http://www.major-k.de > > _______________________________________________ use-revolution mailing > list use-revolution at lists.runrev.com > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution > From JimAultWins at yahoo.com Fri Jun 3 14:09:49 2005 From: JimAultWins at yahoo.com (Jim Ault) Date: Fri, 03 Jun 2005 11:09:49 -0700 Subject: sort question In-Reply-To: <8C73672D3C9F525-AEC-29F2@mblk-r41.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: Greetings, jack First point is that these are not numbers, so numeric has no meaning. These are text strings and are sorted as such. You also have some lines with trailing spaces. You need to clean these up some how to make the sorting work as you wish. Try converting these strings to a number format by using a technique of sorting 'each' line This is a bit confusing when you first attempt it, but hang in there because it is really a valuable tool. 1) syntax> sort lines of strList numeric by numberVersion(each) "each" tells Rev to send each line to a function to be converted *before* sorting 2) now the function that creates a number from the string (for each line of the strList), and subsequently sorts that number list, giving back the original strList in the new sort order based on the numbers. on sortFldSource put fld "source" into tSource --lines to sort sort lines of tSource numeric by numberConvert(each) put tSource into fld "destination" --output for your review end sortFldSource function numberConvert pStrToConvert if pStrToConvert is "" then return "" else set itemdel to "." if the last char of pStrToConvert is "-" then put the last char of pStrToConvert into tSign delete the last char of pStrToConvert end if put item 1 of pStrToConvert into tIntPart put item 2 of pStrToConvert into tDecPart1 if the number of items in pStrToConvert > 2 then put item 3 of pStrToConvert into tDecPart2 else put "" into tDecPart2 end if put tSign & tIntPart & "." & tDecPart1 & tDecPart2 into tReply return tReply end if end numberConvert Thanks to jeanne a. e. devoto for this (each) form of the "sort lines of" command. Jim Ault Las Vegas On 6/3/05 9:45 AM, "revinfo1155 at aol.com" wrote: > Greetings, > > I need a field to sort numerically and when I try it I get the result below. > I checked the docs and experimented with the numberformat without success. > Help! > > jack > > > > 1.101- > 10.101- > 10.201- > 10.301.1- > 10.351- > 10.401- > 10.501- > 11.101.1- > 11.151- > 2.101- > 2.301- > 20.101- > 3.101- > 4.101- > 4.991- > 5.101.1- > 5.151- > 5.201- > 5.301- > 5.351.1- > 5.401- > 5.451- > 5.501- > 5.651- > 5.701- > 6.101.1- > 6.201.1- > 6.301- > 6.401.1- > 7.101- > 7.151.1- > 7.201.1- > 7.251- > 7.401- > 7.501.1- > 8.101- > 8.301- > 9.101.1- > 9.351- > _______________________________________________ > use-revolution mailing list > use-revolution at lists.runrev.com > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution From klaus at major-k.de Fri Jun 3 14:10:27 2005 From: klaus at major-k.de (Klaus Major) Date: Fri, 3 Jun 2005 20:10:27 +0200 Subject: clear fields In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hi Bob, > You wrote: > > >> Hi All >> >> I have a script that clears the contents of fields in cards. >> >> on mouseUp >> repeat with x = 1 to the number of flds >> put empty into fld x >> end repeat end mouseUp >> >> Now this works ok except that the card has some labels and the script >> clears the label contents. >> >> All the text fields are called field1, field2 etc >> >> so I thought of doing this on mouseUp >> repeat with x = 1 to the number of flds >> if the name of fld x is "field &*" >> then put empty into fld x >> end repeat end mouseUp >> >> But I don't ge tthe fields clearing. I tried variations on the >> "field & *" >> > > Then I thought that since the field is number x and the fields are > field1, > field2 etc then > on mouseUp > repeat with x = 1 to the number of flds > if the name of fld x is "field" & "x" > then put empty into fld x > end repeat > end mouseUp > sorry, i misunderstood you. You need brackets :-) on mouseUp repeat with x = 1 to the number of flds if the name of fld x = ("field" & "x") then put empty into fld x end if end repeat end mouseUp > No luck there This will work, since the string will be evaluated first and without the brackets the engine will only look for a field -> "field", but with the brackets it will evaluate the string first to -> "field1" etc... in the loop. Brackets are necessary most of the time when it comes to strings! :-) > bob Best Klaus Major klaus at major-k.de http://www.major-k.de From klaus at major-k.de Fri Jun 3 14:12:59 2005 From: klaus at major-k.de (Klaus Major) Date: Fri, 3 Jun 2005 20:12:59 +0200 Subject: clear fields In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <5DDFF280-2ECE-46DB-AFB5-03DDCB3260D8@major-k.de> Hi Bob, looks like i misunderstood that i misunderstood you :-D > Hi Bob, > > >> You wrote: >> >> >> >>> Hi All >>> >>> I have a script that clears the contents of fields in cards. >>> >>> on mouseUp >>> repeat with x = 1 to the number of flds >>> put empty into fld x >>> end repeat end mouseUp >>> >>> Now this works ok except that the card has some labels and the >>> script >>> clears the label contents. >>> >>> All the text fields are called field1, field2 etc >>> >>> so I thought of doing this on mouseUp >>> repeat with x = 1 to the number of flds >>> if the name of fld x is "field &*" >>> then put empty into fld x >>> end repeat end mouseUp >>> >>> But I don't ge tthe fields clearing. I tried variations on the >>> "field & *" >>> >> Then I thought that since the field is number x and the fields are >> field1, >> field2 etc then >> on mouseUp >> repeat with x = 1 to the number of flds >> if the name of fld x is "field" & "x" >> then put empty into fld x >> end repeat >> end mouseUp > > sorry, i misunderstood you. See above :-D > You need brackets :-) > on mouseUp > repeat with x = 1 to the number of flds > if the name of fld x = ("field" & "x") then > put empty into fld x > end if > end repeat > end mouseUp >> No luck there >> > > This will work, since the string will be evaluated first and without > the brackets the engine will only look for a field -> "field", but > with the > brackets it will evaluate the string first to -> "field1" etc... in > the loop. > > Brackets are necessary most of the time when it comes to strings! :-) > > >> bob Regards Klaus Major klaus at major-k.de http://www.major-k.de From JimAultWins at yahoo.com Fri Jun 3 14:14:32 2005 From: JimAultWins at yahoo.com (Jim Ault) Date: Fri, 03 Jun 2005 11:14:32 -0700 Subject: clear fields In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On 6/3/05 11:02 AM, "Bob Hartley" wrote: > Then I thought that since the field is number x and the fields are field1, > field2 etc then > on mouseUp > repeat with x = 1 to the number of flds > if the name of fld x is "field" & "x" > then put empty into fld x > end repeat > end mouseUp > > No luck there > > bob > You do not want the literal "x", so use the following if the name of fld x is ("field" & x) --without the quotes and preferentially the parens Jim Ault Las Vegas From b.xavier at internet.lu Fri Jun 3 14:21:02 2005 From: b.xavier at internet.lu (MisterX) Date: Fri, 3 Jun 2005 20:21:02 +0200 Subject: sort question In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20050603173804.8760293005A@mail.runrev.com> set the itemdelimiter to "." sort lines of mylist numeric by item 2 of each sort lines of mylist numeric by item 1 of each or you decimal places will not be sorted right but a simple sort lines of mylist numeric by word 1 of each would sufice ;) > -----Original Message----- > From: use-revolution-bounces at lists.runrev.com > [mailto:use-revolution-bounces at lists.runrev.com] On Behalf Of Jim Ault > Sent: Friday, June 03, 2005 20:10 > To: How to use Revolution > Subject: Re: sort question > > Greetings, jack > > First point is that these are not numbers, so numeric has no meaning. > These are text strings and are sorted as such. > You also have some lines with trailing spaces. You need to > clean these up some how to make the sorting work as you wish. > > Try converting these strings to a number format by using a > technique of sorting 'each' line > > This is a bit confusing when you first attempt it, but hang > in there because it is really a valuable tool. > > 1) syntax> sort lines of strList numeric by numberVersion(each) > "each" tells Rev to send each line to a function to be > converted *before* sorting > > 2) now the function that creates a number from the string > (for each line of the strList), and subsequently sorts that > number list, giving back the original strList in the new sort > order based on the numbers. > > on sortFldSource > put fld "source" into tSource --lines to sort > sort lines of tSource numeric by numberConvert(each) > put tSource into fld "destination" --output for your > review end sortFldSource > > function numberConvert pStrToConvert > if pStrToConvert is "" then > return "" > else > set itemdel to "." > if the last char of pStrToConvert is "-" then > put the last char of pStrToConvert into tSign > delete the last char of pStrToConvert > end if > put item 1 of pStrToConvert into tIntPart > put item 2 of pStrToConvert into tDecPart1 > if the number of items in pStrToConvert > 2 then > put item 3 of pStrToConvert into tDecPart2 > else > put "" into tDecPart2 > end if > put tSign & tIntPart & "." & tDecPart1 & tDecPart2 into tReply > return tReply > end if > end numberConvert > > Thanks to jeanne a. e. devoto for this (each) form of the > "sort lines of" > command. > > Jim Ault > Las Vegas > > On 6/3/05 9:45 AM, "revinfo1155 at aol.com" wrote: > > > Greetings, > > > > I need a field to sort numerically and when I try it I get > the result below. > > I checked the docs and experimented with the numberformat > without success. > > Help! > > > > jack > > > > > > > > 1.101- > > 10.101- > > 10.201- > > 10.301.1- > > 10.351- > > 10.401- > > 10.501- > > 11.101.1- > > 11.151- > > 2.101- > > 2.301- > > 20.101- > > 3.101- > > 4.101- > > 4.991- > > 5.101.1- > > 5.151- > > 5.201- > > 5.301- > > 5.351.1- > > 5.401- > > 5.451- > > 5.501- > > 5.651- > > 5.701- > > 6.101.1- > > 6.201.1- > > 6.301- > > 6.401.1- > > 7.101- > > 7.151.1- > > 7.201.1- > > 7.251- > > 7.401- > > 7.501.1- > > 8.101- > > 8.301- > > 9.101.1- > > 9.351- > > _______________________________________________ > > use-revolution mailing list > > use-revolution at lists.runrev.com > > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution > > > _______________________________________________ > use-revolution mailing list > use-revolution at lists.runrev.com > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution > From gregory.lypny at videotron.ca Fri Jun 3 14:22:55 2005 From: gregory.lypny at videotron.ca (Gregory Lypny) Date: Fri, 03 Jun 2005 14:22:55 -0400 Subject: Managing Bookmarks in the Help Stack Message-ID: Hello Everyone, How do I manage bookmarks in Rev's help stack? For example, how do I delete a bookmark or change the name of a bookmark category? Regards, Greg From soapdog at mac.com Fri Jun 3 14:30:20 2005 From: soapdog at mac.com (Andre Garzia) Date: Fri, 3 Jun 2005 15:30:20 -0300 Subject: Thank You Eric! (was Re: [ANN] Windows Picker 1.0 and Re: [ANN] Report Picker and Re: [ANN] Tutorials Picker and ...) In-Reply-To: <6E67924F-7563-4468-8B94-C1B9EBC1AEE5@sosmartsoftware.com> References: <6E67924F-7563-4468-8B94-C1B9EBC1AEE5@sosmartsoftware.com> Message-ID: <52b9d54ca1034e62069334326a18a939@mac.com> Eric, You're the man!!!!! Thank you so much for those tools! now along with altToolbar and Devolution, your tools occupy most part of my Rev IDE! :D and they are becoming unvaluable additions, yesterday I was installing Rev on a spare win32 machine and without all those tools I felt a little dizzy (that's the sign of a good tool!) thanks andre On Jun 3, 2005, at 1:15 PM, Eric Chatonet wrote: > Hi everyone, > > Yesterday, I posted a press release preview about the new plugins I am > releasing. > Today, after the last changes *, everything is operational and is > official :-) > > Windows Picker 1.0 - On-screen windows management plugin for > DreamCard/Revolution - Freeware > > Windows Picker lets you "dock" any window and call it up on-screen > again with a click. > Storage in 3 categories : stacks, scripts/property palettes and IDE > tools. > Specification of colors, possible sound and visual effects. > Bilingual help stack included. Identical appearance on all platforms. > > Report Picker 1.0 is only available from > http://www.sosmartsoftware.com/ > > * I aplogize to Win users (Not Mac ones :-) who have already > downloaded Windows Picker before receiving this mail: the software > needed minor correction: they have been done. > > Have a good week-end, > Best regards from Paris, > > Eric Chatonet. > ---------------------------------------------------------------- > So Smart Software > > For institutions, companies and associations > Built-to-order applications: management, multimedia, internet, etc. > Windows, Mac OS and Linux... With the French touch > > Plugins, tutorials and more on our website > ---------------------------------------------------------------- > Web site http://www.sosmartsoftware.com/ > Email eric.chatonet at sosmartsoftware.com/ > Phone 33 (0)1 43 31 77 62 > Mobile 33 (0)6 20 74 50 86 > ---------------------------------------------------------------- > > > _______________________________________________ > use-revolution mailing list > use-revolution at lists.runrev.com > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution > > -- Andre Alves Garzia ? 2004 Soap Dog Studios - BRAZIL http://studio.soapdog.org From mcdomi at free.fr Fri Jun 3 14:35:43 2005 From: mcdomi at free.fr (Dom) Date: Fri, 3 Jun 2005 20:35:43 +0200 Subject: [FR,EN] No sound with the Player! Message-ID: <1gxlkxn.1rcd6e889r045M%mcdomi@free.fr> Aujourd'hui, j'ai pass? une petite pile ("Voices") ? mon fils pour ?couter la prononciation d'une phrase anglaise...+ Sur sa machine, j'ai juste install? le Player... le probl?me est qu'il n'y a pas de son !!! O? est le "bug" ??? Today I passed along a small stack ("Voices", you know ;-)) to my son for hearing the english prononciation of a phrase.* On its machine, I only installed the Player...the problem is, that there is no sound!!! Where is the "bug"??? * As a young french boy, he has a very distinct french accent ;-> + I had to slow down the speech (revspeechspeed) but the the result is not very convincing... -- Revolutionario From ralf at dol.net Fri Jun 3 14:39:14 2005 From: ralf at dol.net (Ralph R. Forehand) Date: Fri, 3 Jun 2005 14:39:14 -0400 Subject: sort question In-Reply-To: <8C73672D3C9F525-AEC-29F2@mblk-r41.sysops.aol.com> References: <4BB95FD4-1C46-428F-BA83-653AA1E03888@sosmartsoftware.com> <8C73672D3C9F525-AEC-29F2@mblk-r41.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: Jack, 1. Open a new stack, place 2 scrolling fields and 1 button "Modify_Sort" on it 2. Copy (cut & paste) your data into fld 1 - must be 1 number/line 3. Copy the following script into your "Midify_Sort" button on mouseUp -- by Ralph forehand 06/03/05 -- inset leading 0s into numers where needed put empty into card field 2 repeat with i = 1 to number of lines in fld 1 put line i of fld 1 into myNumber if char 2 of myNumber ="." then put "0"& myNumber into line i of fld 2 else put myNumber into line i of fld 2 end if end repeat -- sort modified numbers sort cd fld 2 -- Remove leading Zeros returning numbers to original form repeat with i = 1 to number of lines in fld 2 put line i of fld 2 into myNumber if char 1 of myNumber = 0 then put char 2 to 12 of myNumber into line i of fld 2 else put myNumber into line i of fld 2 end if end repeat end mouseUp 4. Button will put your numbers in the right order. Trust the above helps and Good Luck, Ralph > Greetings, > > I need a field to sort numerically and when I try it I get the result below. I checked the docs and experimented with the numberformat without success. Help! > >jack > > > >1.101- >10.101- >10.201- >10.301.1- >10.351- >10.401- >10.501- >11.101.1- >11.151- >2.101- >2.301- >20.101- >3.101- >4.101- >4.991- >5.101.1- >5.151- >5.201- >5.301- >5.351.1- >5.401- >5.451- >5.501- >5.651- >5.701- >6.101.1- >6.201.1- >6.301- >6.401.1- >7.101- >7.151.1- >7.201.1- >7.251- >7.401- >7.501.1- >8.101- >8.301- >9.101.1- >9.351- >_______________________________________________ >use-revolution mailing list >use-revolution at lists.runrev.com >http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution From revolution at derbrill.de Fri Jun 3 14:43:45 2005 From: revolution at derbrill.de (Malte Brill) Date: Fri, 3 Jun 2005 20:43:45 +0200 Subject: [FR,EN] No sound with the Player! In-Reply-To: <20050603174837.5CDF393010E@mail.runrev.com> Message-ID: <6A0A42F4-D45F-11D9-BC99-0030659A795C@derbrill.de> Bonjour Dom, c?est une problem avec la version 2.5 de le player. Faire une download de la version nouvelle peut etre... No. I shouldn?t try that. my french is just too bad. :-) There has been a problem with the first versions of the player and externals. If you download the most recent version it should work. Regards, Malte From mwieder at ahsoftware.net Fri Jun 3 15:04:57 2005 From: mwieder at ahsoftware.net (Mark Wieder) Date: Fri, 3 Jun 2005 12:04:57 -0700 Subject: clear fields In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1338949148.20050603120457@ahsoftware.net> Bob- Friday, June 3, 2005, 10:40:06 AM, you wrote: BH> All the text fields are called field1, field2 etc I name all my label fields with a "lbl" prefix, so in your example: lblField1, lblField2, etc then: BH> on mouseUp BH> repeat with x = 1 to the number of flds if char 1 to 3 of the name of fld x is not "lbl" then BH> put empty into fld x end if BH> end repeat BH> end mouseUp ...one of the joys of naming conventions... -- -Mark Wieder mwieder at ahsoftware.net From mcdomi at free.fr Fri Jun 3 15:03:53 2005 From: mcdomi at free.fr (Dom) Date: Fri, 3 Jun 2005 21:03:53 +0200 Subject: [FR,EN] No sound with the Player! In-Reply-To: <6A0A42F4-D45F-11D9-BC99-0030659A795C@derbrill.de> Message-ID: <1gxlmf2.1qs3z2u2bzyu3M%mcdomi@free.fr> Malte Brill wrote: > There has been a problem with the first versions of the player and > externals. If you download the most recent version it should work. Merci pour cette r?ponse r?pide, je vais essayer... Thanks for this quick answer, I will try. Viele Danken f?r diese schnelle antwort, Ich (?) -- Revolutionario From klaus at major-k.de Fri Jun 3 15:08:00 2005 From: klaus at major-k.de (Klaus Major) Date: Fri, 3 Jun 2005 21:08:00 +0200 Subject: [FR,EN] No sound with the Player! In-Reply-To: <1gxlmf2.1qs3z2u2bzyu3M%mcdomi@free.fr> References: <1gxlmf2.1qs3z2u2bzyu3M%mcdomi@free.fr> Message-ID: Bon soir Dom, > Malte Brill wrote: > > >> There has been a problem with the first versions of the player and >> externals. If you download the most recent version it should work. >> > > Merci pour cette r?ponse r?pide, je vais essayer... > Thanks for this quick answer, I will try. Viele Dank f?r diese schnelle antwort, Ich (?) Ich werde es versuchen :-) > -- > Revolutionario Best Klaus Major klaus at major-k.de http://www.major-k.de From Stgoldberg at aol.com Fri Jun 3 15:22:19 2005 From: Stgoldberg at aol.com (Stgoldberg at aol.com) Date: Fri, 3 Jun 2005 15:22:19 EDT Subject: Problem with saving standalone Message-ID: <218.21dc212.2fd207eb@aol.com> Thanks Jacqueline, Your suggestion worked immediately and there was no difficulty saving the standalone as soon as I turned off "Search for required inclusions" and turned on "Select inclusions for the standalone." I'm impressed with the great talent in the forum. Thanks. Steve Goldberg In a message dated 6/3/05 2:31:53 PM, use-revolution-request at lists.runrev.com writes: > > On 6/3/05 10:58 AM, Stgoldberg at aol.com wrote: > > > I have a stack I'm working on, which when I want to save as a standalone > (for > > either Mac or Windows) comes up with the?? message "There was an error > saving > > the standalone application." I can't figure out why, since other stacks > save > > easily as standalones. > > I've been collecting a list of possible causes. Check these things: > > 1. The path to the stack contains non-ASCII characters, such as > diacritical marks or accent marks.? Avoid the use of accented or > non-ASCII characters in path names. > > 2. The standalone builder is set to search for inclusions but the stack > is password protected. Select the inclusions manually instead, or remove > the password. > > 3. Alternately, the standalone builder may be having trouble searching > for the required inclusions regardless of password protection. Turn off > "Search for required inclusions" and turn on "Select inclusions for the > standalone application." Then choose the resources you need to include > yourself in the Standalone Settings dialog. > > 4. The folder name is the same as your standalone's name. You need a > unique folder name; make sure you select an empty folder with a name > different from the standalone's name.? If you have previously built a > standalone from the same stack, do not try to build a new one into the > same folder. Trying to overwrite an existing standalone with a new one > can casue problems. Rename or remove the old folder first, and then build. > > 5. Your source stack's file name does not use an extension, or uses an > incorrect extension. Make sure your stack's file name ends with the > extension ".rev" > > 6. Your source stack contains duplicate "message box" or "ask" or > "answer" dialogs. Remove the embedded stacks and let the standalone > builder add them instead. (This usually only occurs with stacks > originally created in MetaCard.) > > Make sure you have done "Check for updates" to be sure you have the most > recent version of the standalone settings stack. > > > > > -- > Jacqueline Landman Gay? ? ? ?? |? ?? jacque at hyperactivesw.com > HyperActive Software? ? ? ? ?? |? ?? http://www.hyperactivesw.com > > ------------------------------ > From jacque at hyperactivesw.com Fri Jun 3 15:27:03 2005 From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay) Date: Fri, 03 Jun 2005 14:27:03 -0500 Subject: player visibility bug? In-Reply-To: <8A02E046-585C-4B87-9751-C06896359B81@sosmartsoftware.com> References: <42A04BB5.20800@sover.net> <9EC415AA-25BF-44DD-BCB9-F6FB45A282E1@sosmartsoftware.com> <42A0819F.1040909@hyperactivesw.com> <30BEC22B-45EB-45AA-B32A-5FE2F7316EE2@sosmartsoftware.com> <42A0909B.4020400@hyperactivesw.com> <8A02E046-585C-4B87-9751-C06896359B81@sosmartsoftware.com> Message-ID: <42A0AF07.5040905@hyperactivesw.com> On 6/3/05 12:42 PM, Eric Chatonet wrote: > Hi Jacque, > > I did not want to hurt you. Oh, not at all. No offense taken in the least. > Sometimes, my bad english makes things seemingly a little bit hard... Your English is excellent, and much better than my French. I don't know any French. :) > And I found it when I read again my mail... > Do you want to excuse me? There is nothing to excuse. You haven't done anything wrong at all. > > On the other hand, I dug the question by testing if there was a > difference when the file did not have any video track: that's should > have shown how much the engine is precise :-) > Infortunately not. I just did a test too. I set a player to the filepath of an mp3 file and hid the player. In Revolution, starting the player shows it again! I couldn't make the player start and remain hidden. Then I did the same thing in MetaCard. Here, I can keep the player hidden and it does play. These tests are all on Mac OS X. So it looks like the difference is in the IDE. Rev does not allow me to start a hidden player. Possibly this is to prevent the Windows bug from occuring. MetaCard does play correctly with the player hidden. -- Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com From eric.chatonet at sosmartsoftware.com Fri Jun 3 15:33:33 2005 From: eric.chatonet at sosmartsoftware.com (Eric Chatonet) Date: Fri, 3 Jun 2005 21:33:33 +0200 Subject: Thank You Eric! (was Re: [ANN] Windows Picker 1.0 and Re: [ANN] Report Picker and Re: [ANN] Tutorials Picker and ...) In-Reply-To: <52b9d54ca1034e62069334326a18a939@mac.com> References: <6E67924F-7563-4468-8B94-C1B9EBC1AEE5@sosmartsoftware.com> <52b9d54ca1034e62069334326a18a939@mac.com> Message-ID: Hi Andre, Many thanks. When I see my website traffic, I may hope that my contributions are useful but nothing can replace a mail like yours! A few hours ago, someone told on this list that south Americans brought luck in your life :-) He was right! Best wishes and regards from Paris, Eric Chatonet. Le 3 juin 05 ? 20:30, Andre Garzia a ?crit : > Eric, > > You're the man!!!!! Thank you so much for those tools! now along > with altToolbar and Devolution, your tools occupy most part of my > Rev IDE! :D > > and they are becoming unvaluable additions, yesterday I was > installing Rev on a spare win32 machine and without all those tools > I felt a little dizzy (that's the sign of a good tool!) > > thanks > andre ---------------------------------------------------------------- So Smart Software For institutions, companies and associations Built-to-order applications: management, multimedia, internet, etc. Windows, Mac OS and Linux... With the French touch Plugins, tutorials and more on our website ---------------------------------------------------------------- Web site http://www.sosmartsoftware.com/ Email eric.chatonet at sosmartsoftware.com/ Phone 33 (0)1 43 31 77 62 Mobile 33 (0)6 20 74 50 86 ---------------------------------------------------------------- From soapdog at mac.com Fri Jun 3 16:54:20 2005 From: soapdog at mac.com (Andre Garzia) Date: Fri, 3 Jun 2005 17:54:20 -0300 Subject: Rev. User Groups in the USA? In-Reply-To: <7abbebb2ffd5a9f83d0592ab129dae85@earthlink.net> References: <20050603091750.4D9F59300E8@mail.runrev.com> <7abbebb2ffd5a9f83d0592ab129dae85@earthlink.net> Message-ID: <9a76e02e176e0b5fe2665c3a6d6d6b5f@mac.com> On Jun 3, 2005, at 2:55 PM, Jim Lyons wrote: > I am in Tallahassee, Florida and would travel to Atlanta, > Jacksonville, Orlando, etc to attend a RevCon, and I would help > support a regional group. Thanks. > > Jim Lyons I am from Brazil and I am travelling to attend RevCon! :D would support regional group too but we don't have one here, yet. Andre -- Andre Alves Garzia ? 2004 ? BRAZIL http://studio.soapdog.org From jbondy at sover.net Fri Jun 3 16:55:37 2005 From: jbondy at sover.net (Jon) Date: Fri, 03 Jun 2005 16:55:37 -0400 Subject: possible bug In-Reply-To: <17589895082.20050603085318@ahsoftware.net> References: <429FAA3A.6030902@sover.net> <16943993238.20050602200816@ahsoftware.net> <42A042F6.8060004@sover.net> <17589895082.20050603085318@ahsoftware.net> Message-ID: <42A0C3C9.8030305@sover.net> Perhaps when you go there. When I go to your original URL, all I saw was a 404 URL not found error screen.... :) Mark Wieder wrote: >Jon- > >Friday, June 3, 2005, 4:45:58 AM, you wrote: > >J> Here is a better URL for RevZilla: > >J> http://www.sonsothunder.com/devres/revolution/downloads/RevZilla.htm > >Sure, but if you go straight there you miss all the other cool stuff >on Ken's site. > > > From gregory.lypny at videotron.ca Fri Jun 3 17:34:42 2005 From: gregory.lypny at videotron.ca (Gregory Lypny) Date: Fri, 03 Jun 2005 17:34:42 -0400 Subject: Alternating Sizes of a Drawer and a Regular Window Message-ID: <7715e1485923d616394a860760d530f5@videotron.ca> Hello Everyone For reasons unknown to me, the following handler does not increase the height of the window to 538 when it is about to be displayed as a drawer. Greg drawer theStack on preOpenStack if the mode of this stack is 13 then revChangeWindowSize 261,538 set the scrollbarWidth of fld "Hit List" to 12 else revChangeWindowSize 720,440 set the scrollbarWidth of fld "Hit List" to 16 set the loc of this stack to the screenLoc end if revUpdateGeometry end preOpenStack So I have to close it with the desired drawer size instead. on closeStack lock screen revChangeWindowSize 261,538 revUpdateGeometry save this stack end closeStack From smilingeyes at mac.com Fri Jun 3 18:15:12 2005 From: smilingeyes at mac.com (Ray Bennett) Date: Fri, 03 Jun 2005 18:15:12 -0400 Subject: Rev. User Groups in the USA? In-Reply-To: <7abbebb2ffd5a9f83d0592ab129dae85@earthlink.net> References: <20050603091750.4D9F59300E8@mail.runrev.com> <7abbebb2ffd5a9f83d0592ab129dae85@earthlink.net> Message-ID: <11004917.1117836912261.JavaMail.smilingeyes@mac.com> I'm in Pennsylvania. I have 2 others working with me and could rationalize a road trip - either driving a day (so, Hotlanta's about the limit - that's 11 hours) or flying somewhere for which it's possible to get good flight deals. On Friday, June 03, 2005, at 01:56PM, Jim Lyons wrote: >I am in Tallahassee, Florida and would travel to Atlanta, Jacksonville, >Orlando, etc to attend a RevCon, and I would help support a regional >group. Thanks. > >Jim Lyons > >On Jun 3, 2005, at 5:17 AM, Kat wrote: > >> What about a Southeast RUG? I'm in east central coast of Florida, but >> have a son in the Hotlanta area I wouldn't mind visiting now and then >> ;-) Anybody else from around here? >> >> Cheers, >> Kat > >_______________________________________________ >use-revolution mailing list >use-revolution at lists.runrev.com >http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution > > From Buddyb3ar22 at aol.com Fri Jun 3 19:22:30 2005 From: Buddyb3ar22 at aol.com (Buddyb3ar22 at aol.com) Date: Fri, 3 Jun 2005 19:22:30 EDT Subject: 1 button for mutliuses Message-ID: <154.52772a9d.2fd24036@aol.com> I have a question, lets say you want only one button for a play and pause function, If a player was playing, the button would say "Pause" and when you pressed it, the button would pause the player and the word on it would change to "Play", Vise versa Someone tried to explain this before, but I don't really get what they meant by what they said Thanks, (You can call me buddy) From briany at qldlearning.com Fri Jun 3 19:34:56 2005 From: briany at qldlearning.com (Brian Yennie) Date: Fri, 3 Jun 2005 16:34:56 -0700 Subject: 1 button for mutliuses In-Reply-To: <154.52772a9d.2fd24036@aol.com> References: <154.52772a9d.2fd24036@aol.com> Message-ID: <424819308b0ef11b5b456205a8ed6368@qldlearning.com> Buddy, In order to use the one button for multiple functions, you'll need to set some information about it. For example, when the user hits play, change its "name" and its "icon" property. It will still be the same button, just appear differently to the user. Here are some pieces: set the name of me to "Play" set the name of me to "Pause" set the icon of me to 1000 ## the ID of an image you want to use on mouseUp if (the short name of me is "Play") then ... else ... end if end mouseUp HTH, Brian > I have a question, lets say you want only one button for a play and > pause > function, If a player was playing, the button would say "Pause" and > when you > pressed it, the button would pause the player and the word on it would > change to > "Play", Vise versa > Someone tried to explain this before, but I don't really get what they > meant > by what they said > Thanks, (You can call me buddy) > _______________________________________________ > use-revolution mailing list > use-revolution at lists.runrev.com > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution > > From Buddyb3ar22 at aol.com Fri Jun 3 20:20:38 2005 From: Buddyb3ar22 at aol.com (Buddyb3ar22 at aol.com) Date: Fri, 3 Jun 2005 20:20:38 EDT Subject: 1 button for mutliuses Message-ID: <1ef.3d32e0d7.2fd24dd6@aol.com> So does that mean I would have to insert all of this code into the Script part? And for the ID, what would an example look like x.x like on the C:/ Drive or something like that.. I'm sorry, I'm just kinda confused ------- set the name of me to "Play" set the name of me to "Pause" set the icon of me to 1000 ## the ID of an image you want to use on mouseUp if (the short name of me is "Play") then ... else ... end if end mouseUp From see3d at writeme.com Fri Jun 3 20:47:29 2005 From: see3d at writeme.com (Dennis Brown) Date: Fri, 03 Jun 2005 20:47:29 -0400 Subject: Rev. User Groups in the USA? In-Reply-To: <11004917.1117836912261.JavaMail.smilingeyes@mac.com> References: <20050603091750.4D9F59300E8@mail.runrev.com> <7abbebb2ffd5a9f83d0592ab129dae85@earthlink.net> <11004917.1117836912261.JavaMail.smilingeyes@mac.com> Message-ID: I am in Asheville, NC --which is in the same basic neighborhood, but much prettier and cooler than Hotlanta ;-) I could get interested if it were not too far from here. Dennis On Jun 3, 2005, at 6:15 PM, Ray Bennett wrote: > I'm in Pennsylvania. > > I have 2 others working with me and could rationalize a road trip - > either driving a day (so, Hotlanta's about the limit - that's 11 > hours) or flying somewhere for which it's possible to get good > flight deals. > > > On Friday, June 03, 2005, at 01:56PM, Jim Lyons > wrote: > > >> I am in Tallahassee, Florida and would travel to Atlanta, >> Jacksonville, >> Orlando, etc to attend a RevCon, and I would help support a regional >> group. Thanks. >> >> Jim Lyons >> >> On Jun 3, 2005, at 5:17 AM, Kat wrote: >> >> >>> What about a Southeast RUG? I'm in east central coast of >>> Florida, but >>> have a son in the Hotlanta area I wouldn't mind visiting now and >>> then >>> ;-) Anybody else from around here? >>> >>> Cheers, >>> Kat >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> use-revolution mailing list >> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution >> >> >> > _______________________________________________ > use-revolution mailing list > use-revolution at lists.runrev.com > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution > From kray at sonsothunder.com Fri Jun 3 21:05:45 2005 From: kray at sonsothunder.com (Ken Ray) Date: Fri, 03 Jun 2005 21:05:45 -0400 Subject: possible bug In-Reply-To: <42A0C3C9.8030305@sover.net> Message-ID: > Perhaps when you go there. When I go to your original URL, all I saw > was a 404 URL not found error screen.... No you're right... Mark provided: http://www.sonsofthunder.com, and unfortunately my domain is 'sonsothunder' not 'sonsofthunder' (I've been trying to get that domain for 5 years!), so perhaps you should go to: http://www.sonsothunder.com/ to see all the goodies... :-) Ken Ray Sons of Thunder Software Email: kray at sonsothunder.com Web Site: http://www.sonsothunder.com/ P.S. You can also use the longer: http://www.sonsofthundersoftware.com/. From tim at leaf25.com Fri Jun 3 22:03:43 2005 From: tim at leaf25.com (tim at leaf25.com) Date: Fri, 03 Jun 2005 19:03:43 -0700 Subject: Keyboard Layout under Windows 98 Message-ID: <20050604012143.167D6930065@mail.runrev.com> Hi everyone, This is my first post here. I bought Rev Studio a few weeks ago and I have really enjoyed working with it, and reading about how to from this list, which has helped me a great deal! I have a question, though, that I haven't been able to find an answer for yet. I am using Windows 98 Japanese OS. When I open Rev, the text input mode automatically switches to a US English keyboard layout. Even if I go into the keyboards control panel and delete this layout, when I open Rev, it just comes back, almost as if Rev is creating it. This means that the punctuation characters do not display as typed. For example, on my keyboard "&" is shift-6, but I have to type shift-7 to get it in Rev. Almost all the other punctuation characters on the right of the keyboard have the same problem. What I need to work out is why Rev isn't using the default keyboard layout and input method editor. I have other English software on this machine, and all of it honors the keyboard layout setting provided by the OS. (in fact, I am typing this now in an English version of Firefox, and there are no problems.) Although I personally can live with this problem, I want to distribute my software to people using Japanese systems - and then it becomes a much bigger issue for me. They will expect that when they type a bracket, or apostrophe, or ampersand, then that's what they get! Any fix / workaround gratefully appreciated! Regards, Timothy Due From wouter.abraham at scarlet.be Fri Jun 3 22:33:05 2005 From: wouter.abraham at scarlet.be (Wouter) Date: Sat, 4 Jun 2005 04:33:05 +0200 Subject: sort question In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On 03 Jun 2005, at 20:09, Jim Ault wrote: > Greetings, jack snip > on sortFldSource > put fld "source" into tSource --lines to sort > sort lines of tSource numeric by numberConvert(each) > put tSource into fld "destination" --output for your review > end sortFldSource > > function numberConvert pStrToConvert > if pStrToConvert is "" then > return "" > else > set itemdel to "." > if the last char of pStrToConvert is "-" then > put the last char of pStrToConvert into tSign > delete the last char of pStrToConvert > end if > put item 1 of pStrToConvert into tIntPart > put item 2 of pStrToConvert into tDecPart1 > if the number of items in pStrToConvert > 2 then > put item 3 of pStrToConvert into tDecPart2 > else > put "" into tDecPart2 > end if > put tSign & tIntPart & "." & tDecPart1 & tDecPart2 into tReply > return tReply > end if > end numberConvert > > Thanks to jeanne a. e. devoto for this (each) form of the "sort > lines of" > command. > > Jim Ault > Las Vegas > > On 6/3/05 9:45 AM, "revinfo1155 at aol.com" wrote: Hi Jim, I don't know on your computer but on my mac this handler gives the following result for Jack's list: 10.101- 11.151- 4.101- 5.101.1- 20.101- 11.101.1- 10.501- 10.401- 10.351- 10.301.1- 10.201- 9.351- 9.101.1- 8.301- 8.101- 7.501.1- 7.401- 7.251- 7.201.1- 7.151.1- 7.101- 6.401.1- 6.301- 6.201.1- 6.101.1- 5.701- 5.651- 5.501- 5.451- 5.401- 5.351.1- 5.301- 5.201- 5.151- 4.991- 3.101- 2.301- 2.101- 1.101- To make it more universal (no matter leading or trailing - and +) one could change it to: on mouseUp get field 1 put numsort(it,"ascending") into fld 2 end mouseUp function numSort pList,pDirection set the itemdelimiter to "." repeat for each line i in pList put i into x if char -1 of word 1 of i is in "-+" then put char -1 of word 1 of i & char 1 to -2 of word 1 of i into x if the num of items in x > 2 then put item 1 to 2 of x & item 3 of x into x put i into numArray[x] end repeat put the keys of numArray into y if pDirection = "ascending" then sort lines of y numeric ascending else sort lines of y numeric descending repeat for each line i in y put numArray[i] & cr after tList end repeat return tList end numSort Greetings, Wouter From 3mcgrath at adelphia.net Fri Jun 3 22:52:47 2005 From: 3mcgrath at adelphia.net (Thomas McGrath III) Date: Fri, 3 Jun 2005 22:52:47 -0400 Subject: Rev. User Groups in the USA? In-Reply-To: <11004917.1117836912261.JavaMail.smilingeyes@mac.com> References: <20050603091750.4D9F59300E8@mail.runrev.com> <7abbebb2ffd5a9f83d0592ab129dae85@earthlink.net> <11004917.1117836912261.JavaMail.smilingeyes@mac.com> Message-ID: <054fd460fb612404e1ebc29a3d2e09e8@adelphia.net> I'm in Pittsburgh Pennsylvania. and a beautiful city it is........ Tom On Jun 3, 2005, at 6:15 PM, Ray Bennett wrote: > I'm in Pennsylvania. > > I have 2 others working with me and could rationalize a road trip - > either driving a day (so, Hotlanta's about the limit - that's 11 > hours) or flying somewhere for which it's possible to get good flight > deals. > > > On Friday, June 03, 2005, at 01:56PM, Jim Lyons > wrote: > >> I am in Tallahassee, Florida and would travel to Atlanta, >> Jacksonville, >> Orlando, etc to attend a RevCon, and I would help support a regional >> group. Thanks. >> >> Jim Lyons >> >> On Jun 3, 2005, at 5:17 AM, Kat wrote: >> >>> What about a Southeast RUG? I'm in east central coast of Florida, >>> but >>> have a son in the Hotlanta area I wouldn't mind visiting now and then >>> ;-) Anybody else from around here? >>> >>> Cheers, >>> Kat >> >> _______________________________________________ >> use-revolution mailing list >> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution >> >> > _______________________________________________ > use-revolution mailing list > use-revolution at lists.runrev.com > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution > > Thomas J. McGrath III SCS 1000 Killarney Dr. Pittsburgh, PA 15234 412-885-8541 From 3mcgrath at adelphia.net Fri Jun 3 23:02:27 2005 From: 3mcgrath at adelphia.net (Thomas McGrath III) Date: Fri, 3 Jun 2005 23:02:27 -0400 Subject: 1 button for mutliuses In-Reply-To: <1ef.3d32e0d7.2fd24dd6@aol.com> References: <1ef.3d32e0d7.2fd24dd6@aol.com> Message-ID: <788f55ebb65a5a662592677a4d163892@adelphia.net> Hey Buddy, Make a button and name it "Play" without the quotes then put this script into it: on mouseUp if (the short name of me is "Play") then set the name of me to "Pause" -- pause script for player goes here --play stop audioClip "Trust No One" -- or pause else set the name of me to "Play" -- play script for player goes here --play audioClip "Trust No One" end if end mouseUp Tom On Jun 3, 2005, at 8:20 PM, Buddyb3ar22 at aol.com wrote: > So does that mean I would have to insert all of this code into the > Script > part? > And for the ID, what would an example look like x.x like on the C:/ > Drive or > something like that.. I'm sorry, I'm just kinda confused > ------- > > set the name of me to "Play" > set the name of me to "Pause" > set the icon of me to 1000 ## the ID of an image you want to use > > on mouseUp > if (the short name of me is "Play") then > ... > else > ... > end if > end mouseUp > _______________________________________________ > use-revolution mailing list > use-revolution at lists.runrev.com > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution > > Thomas J. McGrath III SCS 1000 Killarney Dr. Pittsburgh, PA 15234 412-885-8541 From mwieder at ahsoftware.net Sat Jun 4 00:02:11 2005 From: mwieder at ahsoftware.net (Mark Wieder) Date: Fri, 3 Jun 2005 21:02:11 -0700 Subject: possible bug In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <16141183018.20050603210211@ahsoftware.net> Ken- Friday, June 3, 2005, 6:05:45 PM, you wrote: KR> No you're right... Mark provided: KR> http://www.sonsofthunder.com, and KR> unfortunately my domain is 'sonsothunder' not 'sonsofthunder' (I've been KR> trying to get that domain for 5 years!), so perhaps you should go to: Sheesh... seems like I've been typing like that for the last several days. What good is a computer if it can't figure out what I really meant to say? You've got a little longer to wait - the domain doesn't expire until 6 March 2006. -- -Mark Wieder mwieder at ahsoftware.net From higginsta at mac.com Sat Jun 4 00:08:07 2005 From: higginsta at mac.com (Todd Higgins) Date: Sat, 4 Jun 2005 00:08:07 -0400 Subject: Rev. User Groups in the USA? In-Reply-To: <054fd460fb612404e1ebc29a3d2e09e8@adelphia.net> References: <20050603091750.4D9F59300E8@mail.runrev.com> <7abbebb2ffd5a9f83d0592ab129dae85@earthlink.net> <11004917.1117836912261.JavaMail.smilingeyes@mac.com> <054fd460fb612404e1ebc29a3d2e09e8@adelphia.net> Message-ID: <2AE8C0F0-B727-4558-BFCE-636FD8A9053B@mac.com> I live in beautiful Lancaster County PA (home of the Amish). It is a nice central location for people traveling from Philadelphia, Pittsburgh, Wash. DC, Baltimore, etc. Regards, Todd On Jun 3, 2005, at 10:52 PM, Thomas McGrath III wrote: > I'm in Pittsburgh Pennsylvania. > > and a beautiful city it is........ > > Tom > > On Jun 3, 2005, at 6:15 PM, Ray Bennett wrote: > > >> I'm in Pennsylvania. >> >> I have 2 others working with me and could rationalize a road trip >> - either driving a day (so, Hotlanta's about the limit - that's 11 >> hours) or flying somewhere for which it's possible to get good >> flight deals. >> >> >> On Friday, June 03, 2005, at 01:56PM, Jim Lyons >> wrote: >> >> >>> I am in Tallahassee, Florida and would travel to Atlanta, >>> Jacksonville, >>> Orlando, etc to attend a RevCon, and I would help support a regional >>> group. Thanks. >>> >>> Jim Lyons >>> >>> On Jun 3, 2005, at 5:17 AM, Kat wrote: >>> >>> >>>> What about a Southeast RUG? I'm in east central coast of >>>> Florida, but >>>> have a son in the Hotlanta area I wouldn't mind visiting now and >>>> then >>>> ;-) Anybody else from around here? >>>> >>>> Cheers, >>>> Kat >>>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> use-revolution mailing list >>> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com >>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution >>> >>> >>> >> _______________________________________________ >> use-revolution mailing list >> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution >> >> >> > > Thomas J. McGrath III > SCS > 1000 Killarney Dr. > Pittsburgh, PA 15234 > 412-885-8541 > > _______________________________________________ > use-revolution mailing list > use-revolution at lists.runrev.com > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution > From higginsta at mac.com Sat Jun 4 00:09:07 2005 From: higginsta at mac.com (Todd Higgins) Date: Sat, 4 Jun 2005 00:09:07 -0400 Subject: running rev cgi on Mac OS X Server Message-ID: <2D6BF114-900D-4B99-A1E7-E5A43A96BBAE@mac.com> xcellent article on http://www.hyperactivesw.com/cgitutorial/ (Thanks for the resource.) I was not able to find the Darwin engine to download, so I pulled the executable out of the Revolution.app I am getting the following error in my web server log when I try to run the hello.cgi. [Fri Jun 3 23:36:59 2005] [error] [client 192.168.254.2] Premature end of script headers: /Library/WebServer/CGI-Executables/ hello.cgi When I run the script in the message box I get this error: Script compile error: Error description: Handler: error in command What am I doing something wrong? I have retyped the script verbatim (w/ TextWrangler) and saved it to the server with the proper permissions. hello.cgi script begin -- #!revolution on startup put "Content-Type: text/plain" & cr & cr put "Hello World!" end startup -- script ends Any suggestions? Is it possible that the rev engine is not running? Or is there something wrong with the formatting of my script? Thanks in advance. Todd From kray at sonsothunder.com Sat Jun 4 00:52:37 2005 From: kray at sonsothunder.com (Ken Ray) Date: Sat, 04 Jun 2005 00:52:37 -0400 Subject: possible bug In-Reply-To: <16141183018.20050603210211@ahsoftware.net> Message-ID: > You've got a little longer to wait - the domain doesn't expire until 6 > March 2006. Longer still, I'm afraid... the owner of the domain renews it every year, even though he doesn't do anything with it. (sigh) Ken Ray Sons of Thunder Software Email: kray at sonsothunder.com Web Site: http://www.sonsothunder.com/ From jperryl at ecs.fullerton.edu Sat Jun 4 02:03:30 2005 From: jperryl at ecs.fullerton.edu (Judy Perry) Date: Fri, 3 Jun 2005 23:03:30 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [FR,EN] No sound with the Player! In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Klaus, I would try it?? (just testing my German that I've not practiced in 20+ years...). Wait until you see my pig-Spanish (was practicing on behalf of the Spanish query posted recently). @;-) Judy On Fri, 3 Jun 2005, Klaus Major wrote: > Ich werde es versuchen :-) From jperryl at ecs.fullerton.edu Sat Jun 4 02:17:30 2005 From: jperryl at ecs.fullerton.edu (Judy Perry) Date: Fri, 3 Jun 2005 23:17:30 -0700 (PDT) Subject: OT: Newton History/Insights In-Reply-To: <42A0819F.1040909@hyperactivesw.com> Message-ID: Just found this via the Newton list: http://www.mirrordot.net/stories/6fc51ef4eec51589fa52cf2335e530e9/index.html Kinda sad, really. Judy From eric.chatonet at sosmartsoftware.com Sat Jun 4 02:24:09 2005 From: eric.chatonet at sosmartsoftware.com (Eric Chatonet) Date: Sat, 4 Jun 2005 08:24:09 +0200 Subject: Alternating Sizes of a Drawer and a Regular Window In-Reply-To: <7715e1485923d616394a860760d530f5@videotron.ca> References: <7715e1485923d616394a860760d530f5@videotron.ca> Message-ID: Hi Greg, revChangeWindowSize is an IDE handler used mainly by the revPropertyPalette stack when switching tabs: above all if you plan to make a standalone of your stack, this handler will not be included and your standalone will not work. I don't think it is included into the Player environment. There you will have problems too :-) So, you might prefer to get my Tutorials Picker plugin (by going to http://www.sosmartsoftware.com/) and check the "How to change card dimensions" stack which provides a free variant of revChangeWindowSize you will include in your own script. Best regards from Paris, Eric Chatonet. Le 3 juin 05 ? 23:34, Gregory Lypny a ?crit : > Hello Everyone > > For reasons unknown to me, the following handler does not increase > the height of the window to 538 when it is about to be displayed as > a drawer. > > Greg > > drawer theStack > > on preOpenStack > if the mode of this stack is 13 > then > revChangeWindowSize 261,538 > set the scrollbarWidth of fld "Hit List" to 12 > else > revChangeWindowSize 720,440 > set the scrollbarWidth of fld "Hit List" to 16 > set the loc of this stack to the screenLoc > end if > revUpdateGeometry > end preOpenStack > > So I have to close it with the desired drawer size instead. > > on closeStack > lock screen > revChangeWindowSize 261,538 > revUpdateGeometry > save this stack > end closeStack ---------------------------------------------------------------- So Smart Software For institutions, companies and associations Built-to-order applications: management, multimedia, internet, etc. Windows, Mac OS and Linux... With the French touch Plugins, tutorials and more on our website ---------------------------------------------------------------- Web site http://www.sosmartsoftware.com/ Email eric.chatonet at sosmartsoftware.com/ Phone 33 (0)1 43 31 77 62 Mobile 33 (0)6 20 74 50 86 ---------------------------------------------------------------- From tominjapan at excite.com Sat Jun 4 02:44:35 2005 From: tominjapan at excite.com (Thomas McCarthy) Date: Sat, 4 Jun 2005 02:44:35 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Keyboard Layout under Windows 98 Message-ID: <20050604064435.609E3B8DC@xprdmailfe14.nwk.excite.com> Thank you Thank you Thank you for confirming this. I reported this to the MetaCard list a few year ago. I had the feeling no one believed me, so I dropped it. This is a MAJOR pain. And it continues in standalones. So what do you tell users of your apps? "Sorry, the keyboard layout is screwed, please refer to this handy chart?" As far as I know this continues in NT, and XP. More importantly, it's a major pain to me! Whenever I want to work on the PC, I have to keep in mind the mac (eng) keyboard. Adds much time and frustation to development. tom--I'm not crazy after all _______________________________________________ Join Excite! - http://www.excite.com The most personalized portal on the Web! From eric.chatonet at sosmartsoftware.com Sat Jun 4 03:49:59 2005 From: eric.chatonet at sosmartsoftware.com (Eric Chatonet) Date: Sat, 4 Jun 2005 09:49:59 +0200 Subject: Scripting conferences supporting stacks Message-ID: Hi everyone, It's the week-end. So, to rest :-), I had a look to the scripting conferences supporting stacks (http://support.runrev.com/scriptingconferences/) and especially to the last one about controls from Klaus Major. Kudos! These tutorials should be declared directed to the public benefit especially for beginners. These tutorials should be included in the Rev package. These tutorials should be posted to Rev Online. These tutorials should be announced on this list in capital letters. Please, go and download: I see so many questions on this list the right answers of which are in these stacks... with Klaus humour as a free gift! Best regards from Paris, Eric Chatonet. ---------------------------------------------------------------- So Smart Software For institutions, companies and associations Built-to-order applications: management, multimedia, internet, etc. Windows, Mac OS and Linux... With the French touch Plugins, tutorials and more on our website ---------------------------------------------------------------- Web site http://www.sosmartsoftware.com/ Email eric.chatonet at sosmartsoftware.com/ Phone 33 (0)1 43 31 77 62 Mobile 33 (0)6 20 74 50 86 ---------------------------------------------------------------- From mark at maseurope.net Sat Jun 4 05:47:49 2005 From: mark at maseurope.net (Mark Smith) Date: Sat, 4 Jun 2005 10:47:49 +0100 Subject: OT fine musical instruments. WAS progress bars In-Reply-To: <20050603140839.66B3C9300ED@mail.runrev.com> References: <20050603140839.66B3C9300ED@mail.runrev.com> Message-ID: I well remember, in the early/mid-eighties, attending a demonstration of the 'indestructible' Status Bass (also carbon graphite/fibre, whatever) at the Bass Centre in London. To demonstrate the strength of the instrument, the guy from Status laid the bass across two chairs and then jumped on the middle, if you see what I mean. Needless to say, the damn thing broke in two, much to the huge amusement of all present, including the demonstator. I never did see the necessity for instruments to be indestructible, and I've stuck with wooden basses ever since, and they're even flammable. :) Mark On 3 Jun 2005, at 15:08, Klaus Major wrote: > Although this "headless" design may have been invented by Mr. Ned > Steinberger, > this is a 6-string frettless bass-guitar made by a german company > called "Clover". From klaus at major-k.de Sat Jun 4 06:19:32 2005 From: klaus at major-k.de (Klaus Major) Date: Sat, 4 Jun 2005 12:19:32 +0200 Subject: [FR,EN] No sound with the Player! In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <443F6419-58BC-4FEA-8B85-416F085255A3@major-k.de> Hi Judy, > Klaus, > > I would try it?? I will try. > (just testing my German that I've not practiced in 20+ years...). Not too bad :-) > Wait until you see my pig-Spanish (was practicing on behalf of the > Spanish > query posted recently). OK, we are waiting... > @;-) > > Judy > > On Fri, 3 Jun 2005, Klaus Major wrote: > > >> Ich werde es versuchen :-) Best Klaus Major klaus at major-k.de http://www.major-k.de From klaus at major-k.de Sat Jun 4 06:27:45 2005 From: klaus at major-k.de (Klaus Major) Date: Sat, 4 Jun 2005 12:27:45 +0200 Subject: OT fine musical instruments. WAS progress bars In-Reply-To: References: <20050603140839.66B3C9300ED@mail.runrev.com> Message-ID: <518D9B55-9A68-4E3F-8109-005EF62545C4@major-k.de> Hi Mark, > I well remember, in the early/mid-eighties, attending a > demonstration of the 'indestructible' Status Bass (also carbon > graphite/fibre, whatever) at the Bass Centre in London. To > demonstrate the strength of the instrument, the guy from Status > laid the bass across two chairs and then jumped on the middle, if > you see what I mean. Needless to say, the damn thing broke in two, > much to the huge amusement of all present, including the demonstator. LOL :-D Great story :-) But i saw the first appearance of the Steinbergerbasses on the Frankfurt (germany) music fair a long time ago (1976?), where this experiment really worked! Same setup, 2 chairs etc... and the promoter really stood on that bass for a couple of minutes and you only had to re-tune the E string a bit after that "stunt". Looks like Mr. Steinberger has a "secret formula" for his home brewn carbon graphite stuff ;-) > I never did see the necessity for instruments to be indestructible, Actually, it is NOT necessary, but it is ;-) > and I've stuck with wooden basses ever since, and they're even > flammable. :) Hihi, regards to Jimi H. :-) > Mark > > On 3 Jun 2005, at 15:08, Klaus Major wrote: > > >> Although this "headless" design may have been invented by Mr. Ned >> Steinberger, >> this is a 6-string frettless bass-guitar made by a german company >> called "Clover". Best from germany Klaus Major klaus at major-k.de http://www.major-k.de From rev at armbase.com Sat Jun 4 06:27:40 2005 From: rev at armbase.com (Bob Hartley) Date: Sat, 4 Jun 2005 11:27:40 +0100 Subject: WARNINIG: NEW W32/NETSKY ON THE LOOSE Message-ID: Hi all. Just a wee warning for all the windows ussers. There is a new version of Netsky on the loose. 2 hits on my mail in the last 20 minutes. As usual it has the .pif extension. All the best Bob From 3mcgrath at adelphia.net Sat Jun 4 07:26:34 2005 From: 3mcgrath at adelphia.net (Thomas McGrath III) Date: Sat, 4 Jun 2005 07:26:34 -0400 Subject: Rev. User Groups in the USA? In-Reply-To: <2AE8C0F0-B727-4558-BFCE-636FD8A9053B@mac.com> References: <20050603091750.4D9F59300E8@mail.runrev.com> <7abbebb2ffd5a9f83d0592ab129dae85@earthlink.net> <11004917.1117836912261.JavaMail.smilingeyes@mac.com> <054fd460fb612404e1ebc29a3d2e09e8@adelphia.net> <2AE8C0F0-B727-4558-BFCE-636FD8A9053B@mac.com> Message-ID: Todd, I like Lancaster a lot. It is real nice country. And I must admit is more central than Pgh. Tom On Jun 4, 2005, at 12:08 AM, Todd Higgins wrote: > I live in beautiful Lancaster County PA (home of the Amish). It is a > nice central location for people traveling from Philadelphia, > Pittsburgh, Wash. DC, Baltimore, etc. > > > Regards, > > Todd > > On Jun 3, 2005, at 10:52 PM, Thomas McGrath III wrote: > >> I'm in Pittsburgh Pennsylvania. >> >> and a beautiful city it is........ >> >> Tom >> >> On Jun 3, 2005, at 6:15 PM, Ray Bennett wrote: >> >> >>> I'm in Pennsylvania. >>> >>> I have 2 others working with me and could rationalize a road trip - >>> either driving a day (so, Hotlanta's about the limit - that's 11 >>> hours) or flying somewhere for which it's possible to get good >>> flight deals. >>> >>> >>> On Friday, June 03, 2005, at 01:56PM, Jim Lyons >>> wrote: >>> >>> >>>> I am in Tallahassee, Florida and would travel to Atlanta, >>>> Jacksonville, >>>> Orlando, etc to attend a RevCon, and I would help support a regional >>>> group. Thanks. >>>> >>>> Jim Lyons >>>> >>>> On Jun 3, 2005, at 5:17 AM, Kat wrote: >>>> >>>> >>>>> What about a Southeast RUG? I'm in east central coast of Florida, >>>>> but >>>>> have a son in the Hotlanta area I wouldn't mind visiting now and >>>>> then >>>>> ;-) Anybody else from around here? >>>>> >>>>> Cheers, >>>>> Kat >>>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> use-revolution mailing list >>>> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com >>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution >>>> >>>> >>>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> use-revolution mailing list >>> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com >>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution >>> >>> >>> >> >> Thomas J. McGrath III >> SCS >> 1000 Killarney Dr. >> Pittsburgh, PA 15234 >> 412-885-8541 >> >> _______________________________________________ >> use-revolution mailing list >> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution >> > > _______________________________________________ > use-revolution mailing list > use-revolution at lists.runrev.com > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution > > Thomas J. McGrath III SCS 1000 Killarney Dr. Pittsburgh, PA 15234 412-885-8541 From alex at tweedly.net Sat Jun 4 08:03:26 2005 From: alex at tweedly.net (Alex Tweedly) Date: Sat, 04 Jun 2005 13:03:26 +0100 Subject: OT: but interesting to Mac users Message-ID: <42A1988E.4020106@tweedly.net> According to a story on slashdot, /"According to C|Net, Apple has officially decided to drop IBM , and will use Intel processors starting in their '06 line of systems. This change was rumored last month . The announcement is expected Monday at Apple's Worldwide Developer Conference in San Francisco, at which Chief Executive Steve Jobs is giving the keynote speech."/ From the article: /"Apple successfully navigated a switch in the 1990s from Motorola's 680x0 line of processors to the Power line jointly made by Motorola and IBM. That switch also required software to be revamped to take advantage of the new processors' performance, but emulation software permitted older programs to run on the new machines."/ -- Alex Tweedly http://www.tweedly.net -------------- next part -------------- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.322 / Virus Database: 267.5.2 - Release Date: 03/06/2005 From jbondy at sover.net Sat Jun 4 08:28:42 2005 From: jbondy at sover.net (Jon) Date: Sat, 04 Jun 2005 08:28:42 -0400 Subject: bug Message-ID: <42A19E7A.8040501@sover.net> I was editing the custom properties of a table. I wanted to delete the most recently entered custom property, so I pressed the key. The TABLE was deleted, not the property; and UNDO did not bring the table back. :( Jon From higginsta at mac.com Sat Jun 4 08:30:31 2005 From: higginsta at mac.com (Todd Higgins) Date: Sat, 4 Jun 2005 08:30:31 -0400 Subject: running rev cgi on Mac OS X Server Message-ID: (I am apologize if this is a dupe, this is the 3rd attempt to get this message to the list.) I am trying to run a rev cgi on my Mac OS X Server and I am running into an error. First of all I am following the excellent article on http://www.hyperactivesw.com/cgitutorial/ (Thanks for the resource.) I was not able to find the Darwin engine to download, so I pulled the executable out of the Revolution.app I am getting the following error in my web server log when I try to run the hello.cgi. [Fri Jun 3 23:36:59 2005] [error] [client 192.168.254.2] Premature end of script headers: /Library/WebServer/CGI-Executables/ hello.cgi When I run the script in the message box I get this error: Script compile error: Error description: Handler: error in command What am I doing something wrong? I have retyped the script verbatim (w/ TextWrangler) and saved it to the server with the proper permissions. hello.cgi script begin -- #!revolution on startup put "Content-Type: text/plain" & cr & cr put "Hello World!" end startup -- script ends Any suggestions? Is it possible that the rev engine is not running? Or is there something wrong with the formatting of my script? Thanks in advance. Todd From jbondy at sover.net Sat Jun 4 08:32:41 2005 From: jbondy at sover.net (Jon) Date: Sat, 04 Jun 2005 08:32:41 -0400 Subject: using tables Message-ID: <42A19F69.9000407@sover.net> I read Eric's stack about how to use tables, which was very helpful. His suggested approach for making a table not scroll (i.e., act as if it were a fixed group of fields on the screen) shows just how awkward the table facility is. Imagine having five tables on a stack and trying to implement the RawKeyDown handler: you would have to clone the code repeatedly for every table on the stack, or loop over all fields looking for tables. I'm afraid I can't understand why this obviously helpful feature was not built into tables from the start Grump Jon From jimlyons at earthlink.net Sat Jun 4 08:42:47 2005 From: jimlyons at earthlink.net (Jim Lyons) Date: Sat, 4 Jun 2005 08:42:47 -0400 Subject: 1 button for mutliuses In-Reply-To: <20050604022030.5296D930147@mail.runrev.com> References: <20050604022030.5296D930147@mail.runrev.com> Message-ID: <80119c1188fa7049067213fb3c0c0b00@earthlink.net> Concerning changing the name of objects: Since we get to have both names and labels on objects in Revolution, I like to leave the name unchanged -- "play/pause" or some such -- and change the label to show the state of the button. Jim Lyons On Jun 3, 2005, at 10:20 PM, Tom McGrath wrote: > Make a button and name it "Play" without the quotes then put this > script into it: > > on mouseUp > if (the short name of me is "Play") then > set the name of me to "Pause" > -- pause script for player goes here > --play stop audioClip "Trust No One" -- or pause > else > set the name of me to "Play" > -- play script for player goes here > --play audioClip "Trust No One" > end if > end mouseUp > > Tom > > On Jun 3, 2005, at 8:20 PM, Buddyb3ar22 at aol.com wrote: > >> So does that mean I would have to insert all of this code into the >> Script >> part? >> And for the ID, what would an example look like x.x like on the C:/ >> Drive or >> something like that.. I'm sorry, I'm just kinda confused >> ------- >> >> set the name of me to "Play" >> set the name of me to "Pause" >> set the icon of me to 1000 ## the ID of an image you want to use >> >> on mouseUp >> if (the short name of me is "Play") then >> ... >> else >> ... >> end if >> end mouseUp >> _______________________________________________ >> use-revolution mailing list >> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution >> >> > > Thomas J. McGrath III From eric.chatonet at sosmartsoftware.com Sat Jun 4 08:59:42 2005 From: eric.chatonet at sosmartsoftware.com (Eric Chatonet) Date: Sat, 4 Jun 2005 14:59:42 +0200 Subject: using tables In-Reply-To: <42A19F69.9000407@sover.net> References: <42A19F69.9000407@sover.net> Message-ID: <3ECB37F8-7BAC-431E-8C49-7173D09C3534@sosmartsoftware.com> Hi Jon, I wrote this tutorial stack about table fields because there were many questions on this list about this feature a month ago. But I am not really satisfied with it. The table feature is not accomplished enough in the current version of Revolution to provide satisfying answers to legitimate questions. As you said, it shows how amazing the table facility is :-) Nevertheless, I am happy if this stack could help you. Le 4 juin 05 ? 14:32, Jon a ?crit : > I read Eric's stack about how to use tables, which was very helpful. > > His suggested approach for making a table not scroll (i.e., act as > if it were a fixed group of fields on the screen) shows just how > awkward the table facility is. Imagine having five tables on a > stack and trying to implement the RawKeyDown handler: you would > have to clone the code repeatedly for every table on the stack, or > loop over all fields looking for tables. > > I'm afraid I can't understand why this obviously helpful feature > was not built into tables from the start Best regards from Paris, Eric Chatonet. ---------------------------------------------------------------- So Smart Software For institutions, companies and associations Built-to-order applications: management, multimedia, internet, etc. Windows, Mac OS and Linux... With the French touch Plugins, tutorials and more on our website ---------------------------------------------------------------- Web site http://www.sosmartsoftware.com/ Email eric.chatonet at sosmartsoftware.com/ Phone 33 (0)1 43 31 77 62 Mobile 33 (0)6 20 74 50 86 ---------------------------------------------------------------- From ralf at dol.net Sat Jun 4 10:29:03 2005 From: ralf at dol.net (Ralph R. Forehand) Date: Sat, 4 Jun 2005 10:29:03 -0400 Subject: Deleting SubStacks? In-Reply-To: <3ECB37F8-7BAC-431E-8C49-7173D09C3534@sosmartsoftware.com> References: <42A19F69.9000407@sover.net> <3ECB37F8-7BAC-431E-8C49-7173D09C3534@sosmartsoftware.com> Message-ID: How do you delete Substacks enclosed in Stack File? I'm sure it's simple but I can't put my finger on it. Thanks in Advance, Ralph From klaus at major-k.de Sat Jun 4 10:43:30 2005 From: klaus at major-k.de (Klaus Major) Date: Sat, 4 Jun 2005 16:43:30 +0200 Subject: Deleting SubStacks? In-Reply-To: References: <42A19F69.9000407@sover.net> <3ECB37F8-7BAC-431E-8C49-7173D09C3534@sosmartsoftware.com> Message-ID: Hi Ralph, > How do you delete Substacks enclosed in Stack File? > > I'm sure it's simple but I can't put my finger on it. 1. Control-click on the substack in the application browser and select "Delete Substack" or 2. Use the message box: delete stack "name of substack here" of stack "name of mainstack here" Hope that helps... > Thanks in Advance, > Ralph Best Klaus Major klaus at major-k.de http://www.major-k.de From eric.chatonet at sosmartsoftware.com Sat Jun 4 10:44:17 2005 From: eric.chatonet at sosmartsoftware.com (Eric Chatonet) Date: Sat, 4 Jun 2005 16:44:17 +0200 Subject: Deleting SubStacks? In-Reply-To: References: <42A19F69.9000407@sover.net> <3ECB37F8-7BAC-431E-8C49-7173D09C3534@sosmartsoftware.com> Message-ID: <701E5FAB-6784-469C-8FC1-B8AA3DC49243@sosmartsoftware.com> Hi Ralph, By script or from the message box, use the delete stack command. By hand, use the contextual menu in the app browser on the substack icon. You can also set the mainStack of a substack to itself and, if you wish, save it as a main stack (then you will keep it in a separate file for further developments). Le 4 juin 05 ? 16:29, Ralph R. Forehand a ?crit : > How do you delete Substacks enclosed in Stack File? > I'm sure it's simple but I can't put my finger on it. Best regards from Paris, Eric Chatonet. ---------------------------------------------------------------- So Smart Software For institutions, companies and associations Built-to-order applications: management, multimedia, internet, etc. Windows, Mac OS and Linux... With the French touch Plugins, tutorials and more on our website ---------------------------------------------------------------- Web site http://www.sosmartsoftware.com/ Email eric.chatonet at sosmartsoftware.com/ Phone 33 (0)1 43 31 77 62 Mobile 33 (0)6 20 74 50 86 ---------------------------------------------------------------- From Roger.E.Eller at sealedair.com Sat Jun 4 10:45:43 2005 From: Roger.E.Eller at sealedair.com (Roger.E.Eller at sealedair.com) Date: Sat, 4 Jun 2005 10:45:43 -0400 Subject: Rev. User Groups in the USA? Message-ID: We have 2 rev users, and we are located 2.5 hours from Atlanta. We would like to attend a south-east RevCon as well. Roger Eller On Friday, June 03, 2005, at 01:56PM, Jim Lyons wrote: >I am in Tallahassee, Florida and would travel to Atlanta, Jacksonville, >Orlando, etc to attend a RevCon, and I would help support a regional >group. Thanks. > >Jim Lyons > >On Jun 3, 2005, at 5:17 AM, Kat wrote: > >> What about a Southeast RUG? I'm in east central coast of Florida, but >> have a son in the Hotlanta area I wouldn't mind visiting now and then >> ;-) Anybody else from around here? >> >> Cheers, >> Kat > From bvg at mac.com Sat Jun 4 11:14:20 2005 From: bvg at mac.com (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Bj=F6rnke_von_Gierke?=) Date: Sat, 4 Jun 2005 17:14:20 +0200 Subject: running rev cgi on Mac OS X Server In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Jun 04 2005, at 14:30, Todd Higgins wrote: > (I am apologize if this is a dupe, this is the 3rd attempt to get this > message to the list.) > > I am trying to run a rev cgi on my Mac OS X Server and I am running > into an error. First of all I am following the excellent article on > http://www.hyperactivesw.com/cgitutorial/ (Thanks for the resource.) > I was not able to find the Darwin engine to download, so I pulled the > executable out of the Revolution.app that's the problem. you need the cgi engine. they are pretty well hidden on the rev page right now, but you can find the mac os x version on the intro page of the cgitutorial: http://www.hyperactivesw.com/cgitutorial/intro.html#Installing -- official ChatRev page: http://chatrev.cjb.net Chat with other RunRev developers: go stack URL "http://homepage.mac.com/bvg/chatrev1.3.rev" From katherine.w.c at gmail.com Sat Jun 4 11:25:53 2005 From: katherine.w.c at gmail.com (Kat) Date: Sat, 04 Jun 2005 11:25:53 -0400 Subject: Rev. User Groups in the USA? In-Reply-To: References: <20050603091750.4D9F59300E8@mail.runrev.com> <7abbebb2ffd5a9f83d0592ab129dae85@earthlink.net> <11004917.1117836912261.JavaMail.smilingeyes@mac.com> Message-ID: <42A1C801.9010307@gmail.com> That would work for me. My sister lives just outside Asheville. Lovely place!! Not as easy to get to as Atlanta, though. For those not from this area, the saying is that even to get to Hell you have to change planes in Atlanta. Cheers, Kat Dennis Brown wrote: > I am in Asheville, NC --which is in the same basic neighborhood, but > much prettier and cooler than Hotlanta ;-) > I could get interested if it were not too far from here. > > Dennis > > On Jun 3, 2005, at 6:15 PM, Ray Bennett wrote: > >> I'm in Pennsylvania. >> >> I have 2 others working with me and could rationalize a road trip - >> either driving a day (so, Hotlanta's about the limit - that's 11 >> hours) or flying somewhere for which it's possible to get good >> flight deals. >> >> >> On Friday, June 03, 2005, at 01:56PM, Jim Lyons >> wrote: >> >> >>> I am in Tallahassee, Florida and would travel to Atlanta, >>> Jacksonville, >>> Orlando, etc to attend a RevCon, and I would help support a regional >>> group. Thanks. >>> >>> Jim Lyons >>> >>> On Jun 3, 2005, at 5:17 AM, Kat wrote: >>> >>> >>>> What about a Southeast RUG? I'm in east central coast of Florida, >>>> but >>>> have a son in the Hotlanta area I wouldn't mind visiting now and then >>>> ;-) Anybody else from around here? >>>> >>>> Cheers, >>>> Kat >>>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> use-revolution mailing list >>> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com >>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution >>> >>> >>> >> _______________________________________________ >> use-revolution mailing list >> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution >> > > _______________________________________________ > use-revolution mailing list > use-revolution at lists.runrev.com > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution > From stephenREVOLUTION at barncard.com Sat Jun 4 11:55:07 2005 From: stephenREVOLUTION at barncard.com (Stephen Barncard) Date: Sat, 4 Jun 2005 08:55:07 -0700 Subject: OT: but interesting to Mac users In-Reply-To: <42A1988E.4020106@tweedly.net> References: <42A1988E.4020106@tweedly.net> Message-ID: WHat a mess. I, for one, don't look forward to this changeover. It will not be hassle-free by a long shot. The last one (osx) was not that smooth and took 5 years to get right. And every developer has to re-compile every app. Nice. And what do we do in the stores; Apple-MotoIBM versions and Apple-INTEL versions? A lot of people are not going to understand. And a lot of people are going to cling to their old G5s and good old Tiger. That should do as well as dual stocking for mono and stereo LPs did in the late 50's. Also what about the superiority of the G5 ?? The amazing server-farm supercomputers, etc. Can't these guys find another source for G5 chips? sqb At 1:03 PM +0100 6/4/05, Alex Tweedly wrote: >According to a story on slashdot, > >/"According to C|Net, Apple has officially decided to drop IBM >, >and will use Intel processors starting in their '06 line of systems. >This change was rumored last month >. >The announcement is expected Monday at Apple's Worldwide Developer >Conference in San Francisco, at which Chief Executive Steve Jobs is >giving the keynote speech."/ From the article: /"Apple successfully >navigated a switch in the 1990s from Motorola's 680x0 line of >processors to the Power line jointly made by Motorola and IBM. That >switch also required software to be revamped to take advantage of >the new processors' performance, but emulation software permitted >older programs to run on the new machines."/ > >-- >Alex Tweedly http://www.tweedly.net From stephenREVOLUTION at barncard.com Sat Jun 4 11:58:43 2005 From: stephenREVOLUTION at barncard.com (Stephen Barncard) Date: Sat, 4 Jun 2005 08:58:43 -0700 Subject: bug In-Reply-To: <42A19E7A.8040501@sover.net> References: <42A19E7A.8040501@sover.net> Message-ID: Not a bug. Operator error. Before hitting delete, one must check the focus!! You have to tell Rev what to do explicitly, it can't read your mind. Deleting properties is done with the little trash can symbol in the editor. You DO have a backup stack, right? At 8:28 AM -0400 6/4/05, Jon wrote: >I was editing the custom properties of a table. I wanted to delete >the most recently entered custom property, so I pressed the >key. The TABLE was deleted, not the property; and UNDO did not >bring the table back. > >:( > >Jon From ralf at dol.net Sat Jun 4 12:02:10 2005 From: ralf at dol.net (Ralph R. Forehand) Date: Sat, 4 Jun 2005 12:02:10 -0400 Subject: Rev. User Groups in the USA? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: >We have 2 rev users, and we are located 2.5 hours from Atlanta. We would >like to attend a south-east RevCon as well. > >Roger Eller Roger, Thanks for your reply and interest. Where exactly are you located? The prospects for something in the South-east are looking promising.:-)) Thanks Again and More Later, Ralph >On Friday, June 03, 2005, at 01:56PM, Jim Lyons >wrote: > > >I am in Tallahassee, Florida and would travel to Atlanta, Jacksonville, > >Orlando, etc to attend a RevCon, and I would help support a regional > >group. Thanks. > > > >Jim Lyons > > > >On Jun 3, 2005, at 5:17 AM, Kat wrote: > > > >> What about a Southeast RUG? I'm in east central coast of Florida, but > >> have a son in the Hotlanta area I wouldn't mind visiting now and then > >> ;-) Anybody else from around here? > >> > >> Cheers, > >> Kat > > >_______________________________________________ >use-revolution mailing list >use-revolution at lists.runrev.com >http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution From ralf at dol.net Sat Jun 4 12:07:51 2005 From: ralf at dol.net (Ralph R. Forehand) Date: Sat, 4 Jun 2005 12:07:51 -0400 Subject: Deleting SubStacks? In-Reply-To: <701E5FAB-6784-469C-8FC1-B8AA3DC49243@sosmartsoftware.com> References: <42A19F69.9000407@sover.net> <3ECB37F8-7BAC-431E-8C49-7173D09C3534@sosmartsoftware.com> <701E5FAB-6784-469C-8FC1-B8AA3DC49243@sosmartsoftware.com> Message-ID: Kluas and Eric, Thank You both for your quick and very helpful responses. The mail-list proves to be a BIG HELP again!! :-)) Thanks Again, More Later and TAE CARE, Ralph From eric.chatonet at sosmartsoftware.com Sat Jun 4 12:22:44 2005 From: eric.chatonet at sosmartsoftware.com (Eric Chatonet) Date: Sat, 4 Jun 2005 18:22:44 +0200 Subject: bug In-Reply-To: <42A19E7A.8040501@sover.net> References: <42A19E7A.8040501@sover.net> Message-ID: Hi Jon, I did not understood your question first but Stephen's response made it clear: The pointer tool was active and your table field was selected. Pressing the delete key then suppresses the selected object: normal behaviour. If you had immediatly chosen to undo, it would have be restored but obviously... you did another thing before choosing undo. The lesson is: hands up when there is a catastrophe and quietly undo... Stephen's advice about backups is relevant: this man knows Backups Picker ;-) Le 4 juin 05 ? 14:28, Jon a ?crit : > I was editing the custom properties of a table. I wanted to delete > the most recently entered custom property, so I pressed the > key. The TABLE was deleted, not the property; and UNDO did not > bring the table back. Best regards from Paris, Eric Chatonet. ---------------------------------------------------------------- So Smart Software For institutions, companies and associations Built-to-order applications: management, multimedia, internet, etc. Windows, Mac OS and Linux... With the French touch Plugins, tutorials and more on our website ---------------------------------------------------------------- Web site http://www.sosmartsoftware.com/ Email eric.chatonet at sosmartsoftware.com/ Phone 33 (0)1 43 31 77 62 Mobile 33 (0)6 20 74 50 86 ---------------------------------------------------------------- From higginsta at mac.com Sat Jun 4 12:23:10 2005 From: higginsta at mac.com (Todd Higgins) Date: Sat, 4 Jun 2005 12:23:10 -0400 Subject: running rev cgi on Mac OS X Server In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <96B2D94D-F8D8-4ACD-BAFD-08C60971BF13@mac.com> Thanks BvG, I could swear that I tried the link from the tutorial last night and all I got was a 403 Forbidden page. It was the engine, everything is working now. Todd On Jun 4, 2005, at 11:14 AM, Bj?rnke von Gierke wrote: > > On Jun 04 2005, at 14:30, Todd Higgins wrote: > > >> (I am apologize if this is a dupe, this is the 3rd attempt to get >> this message to the list.) >> >> I am trying to run a rev cgi on my Mac OS X Server and I am >> running into an error. First of all I am following the excellent >> article on http://www.hyperactivesw.com/cgitutorial/ (Thanks for >> the resource.) I was not able to find the Darwin engine to >> download, so I pulled the executable out of the Revolution.app >> > > that's the problem. you need the cgi engine. they are pretty well > hidden on the rev page right now, but you can find the mac os x > version on the intro page of the cgitutorial: > http://www.hyperactivesw.com/cgitutorial/intro.html#Installing > > -- > > official ChatRev page: > http://chatrev.cjb.net > > Chat with other RunRev developers: > go stack URL "http://homepage.mac.com/bvg/chatrev1.3.rev" > > > _______________________________________________ > use-revolution mailing list > use-revolution at lists.runrev.com > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution > From jbondy at sover.net Sat Jun 4 12:28:31 2005 From: jbondy at sover.net (Jon) Date: Sat, 04 Jun 2005 12:28:31 -0400 Subject: using tables In-Reply-To: <3ECB37F8-7BAC-431E-8C49-7173D09C3534@sosmartsoftware.com> References: <42A19F69.9000407@sover.net> <3ECB37F8-7BAC-431E-8C49-7173D09C3534@sosmartsoftware.com> Message-ID: <42A1D6AF.8070106@sover.net> Eric: Your stack was a great help. My gripe was with the underlying technology, not with your description! :) Jon Eric Chatonet wrote: > Hi Jon, > > I wrote this tutorial stack about table fields because there were > many questions on this list about this feature a month ago. > But I am not really satisfied with it. > The table feature is not accomplished enough in the current version > of Revolution to provide satisfying answers to legitimate questions. > As you said, it shows how amazing the table facility is :-) > Nevertheless, I am happy if this stack could help you. > > Le 4 juin 05 ? 14:32, Jon a ?crit : > >> I read Eric's stack about how to use tables, which was very helpful. >> >> His suggested approach for making a table not scroll (i.e., act as >> if it were a fixed group of fields on the screen) shows just how >> awkward the table facility is. Imagine having five tables on a >> stack and trying to implement the RawKeyDown handler: you would have >> to clone the code repeatedly for every table on the stack, or loop >> over all fields looking for tables. >> >> I'm afraid I can't understand why this obviously helpful feature was >> not built into tables from the start > > > Best regards from Paris, > > Eric Chatonet. > ---------------------------------------------------------------- > So Smart Software > > For institutions, companies and associations > Built-to-order applications: management, multimedia, internet, etc. > Windows, Mac OS and Linux... With the French touch > > Plugins, tutorials and more on our website > ---------------------------------------------------------------- > Web site http://www.sosmartsoftware.com/ > Email eric.chatonet at sosmartsoftware.com/ > Phone 33 (0)1 43 31 77 62 > Mobile 33 (0)6 20 74 50 86 > ---------------------------------------------------------------- > > _______________________________________________ > use-revolution mailing list > use-revolution at lists.runrev.com > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution > > From stephenREVOLUTION at barncard.com Sat Jun 4 12:36:00 2005 From: stephenREVOLUTION at barncard.com (Stephen Barncard) Date: Sat, 4 Jun 2005 09:36:00 -0700 Subject: bug In-Reply-To: References: <42A19E7A.8040501@sover.net> Message-ID: not to detract your other plugs, but Backup picker rocks!! I currently use it every 20 minutes. Eric's color plug I use all the time for getting colors off the screen, even while using other apps.. very few things will sample color anywhere and when I just need those 3 hex numbers... At 6:22 PM +0200 6/4/05, Eric Chatonet wrote: >Stephen's advice about backups is relevant: this man knows Backups Picker ;-) > From see3d at writeme.com Sat Jun 4 12:42:44 2005 From: see3d at writeme.com (Dennis Brown) Date: Sat, 04 Jun 2005 12:42:44 -0400 Subject: OT: but interesting to Mac users In-Reply-To: References: <42A1988E.4020106@tweedly.net> Message-ID: <57BDD87C-9EDB-4A5D-B036-00C5D7A7B88B@writeme.com> On Jun 4, 2005, at 11:55 AM, Stephen Barncard wrote: > Also what about the superiority of the G5 ?? The amazing server- > farm supercomputers, etc. > > Can't these guys find another source for G5 chips? Sure they can... Intel Dennis From eric.chatonet at sosmartsoftware.com Sat Jun 4 12:46:58 2005 From: eric.chatonet at sosmartsoftware.com (Eric Chatonet) Date: Sat, 4 Jun 2005 18:46:58 +0200 Subject: bug In-Reply-To: References: <42A19E7A.8040501@sover.net> Message-ID: <492AED40-31DC-49FB-8979-3848ADBF6AF0@sosmartsoftware.com> Hi Stephen, If you say: it rocks, it's particularly welcome coming from you :-) As for Color Picker, I implemented this function because I needed too often to pick a color in PhotoShop background... Just what PhotoShop does not ;-) Le 4 juin 05 ? 18:36, Stephen Barncard a ?crit : > not to detract your other plugs, but Backup picker rocks!! > I currently use it every 20 minutes. > Eric's color plug I use all the time for getting colors off the > screen, even while using other apps.. very few things will sample > color anywhere and when I just need those 3 hex numbers... Best regards from Paris, Eric Chatonet. ---------------------------------------------------------------- So Smart Software For institutions, companies and associations Built-to-order applications: management, multimedia, internet, etc. Windows, Mac OS and Linux... With the French touch Plugins, tutorials and more on our website ---------------------------------------------------------------- Web site http://www.sosmartsoftware.com/ Email eric.chatonet at sosmartsoftware.com/ Phone 33 (0)1 43 31 77 62 Mobile 33 (0)6 20 74 50 86 ---------------------------------------------------------------- From jbondy at sover.net Sat Jun 4 12:56:39 2005 From: jbondy at sover.net (Jon) Date: Sat, 04 Jun 2005 12:56:39 -0400 Subject: IDE bug Message-ID: <42A1DD47.2020500@sover.net> I had placed a Player off the visible portion of a Stack. I wanted to get it back to being visible, so I looked at its properties in the Inspector and clicked one of the arrows (I think up arrow) to the right of the negative number that represented the Top. That number became reasonable automatically, and the Player became visible. A second later, the Player jumped down a pixel. A second later, another. The IDE locked up, with none of the buttons responding. I had to kill the IDE from the Task Manager. I suppose this could be another repeated/recursive call, where the IDE tries to adjust something and a competing Handler tries to do something else, but if this is the case, I am not aware of which handler it might be. Jon From see3d at writeme.com Sat Jun 4 13:00:16 2005 From: see3d at writeme.com (Dennis Brown) Date: Sat, 04 Jun 2005 13:00:16 -0400 Subject: bug In-Reply-To: References: <42A19E7A.8040501@sover.net> Message-ID: I hate to break in here, but just 10 minutes ago, I wanted to delete a custom property from a field. I selected the property in the inspector (it was the first one and it was highlighted), I hit delete, return (did not read the "are you sure" box very carefully) and every custom property was deleted. I went immediately to the Edit menu and the undo was available, so I selected it. None of my custom properties were restored, but the field was still there. I had to revert to last saved. When I actually try to delete more than one custom property at a time, I can't even select more than one. Perhaps I did something wrong (operator error), but I can not figure out what it could have been. I have noticed that the IDE has a tough time doing the focus right. For instance, I can select the doc window, click in the find field --it is outlined, then start typing, only to look up and see that nothing is being typed into the field. I have to click on it again before it works. This has happened also in my stacks. What gives? Dennis On Jun 4, 2005, at 11:58 AM, Stephen Barncard wrote: > Not a bug. Operator error. > > Before hitting delete, one must check the focus!! You have to tell > Rev what to do explicitly, it can't read your mind. Deleting > properties is done with the little trash can symbol in the editor. > > You DO have a backup stack, right? > > At 8:28 AM -0400 6/4/05, Jon wrote: > >> I was editing the custom properties of a table. I wanted to >> delete the most recently entered custom property, so I pressed the >> key. The TABLE was deleted, not the property; and UNDO did >> not bring the table back. >> >> :( >> >> Jon >> > _______________________________________________ > use-revolution mailing list > use-revolution at lists.runrev.com > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution > From jbondy at sover.net Sat Jun 4 13:12:24 2005 From: jbondy at sover.net (Jon) Date: Sat, 04 Jun 2005 13:12:24 -0400 Subject: formatting times for the user Message-ID: <42A1E0F8.7030602@sover.net> Are there any simple ways to take times (like Player currentPositions or Durations) and format them for the user so that they look like "h:mm:ss.hh"? I looked in the help for Format, but no joy. Jon From jacque at hyperactivesw.com Sat Jun 4 13:13:20 2005 From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay) Date: Sat, 04 Jun 2005 12:13:20 -0500 Subject: using tables In-Reply-To: <42A1D6AF.8070106@sover.net> References: <42A19F69.9000407@sover.net> <3ECB37F8-7BAC-431E-8C49-7173D09C3534@sosmartsoftware.com> <42A1D6AF.8070106@sover.net> Message-ID: <42A1E130.5000706@hyperactivesw.com> On 6/4/05 11:28 AM, Jon wrote: > Eric: > > Your stack was a great help. My gripe was with the underlying > technology, not with your description! Right now tables are just regular fields with their tabstops set and a bunch of scripts to control behavior. What is needed is a real table object -- a new type of control -- and the team knows that. It is one of the most-requested features and there has been internal discussion about it. -- Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com From stephenREVOLUTION at barncard.com Sat Jun 4 13:34:01 2005 From: stephenREVOLUTION at barncard.com (Stephen Barncard) Date: Sat, 4 Jun 2005 10:34:01 -0700 Subject: bug In-Reply-To: References: <42A19E7A.8040501@sover.net> Message-ID: When editing properties, I'd suggest never using the delete key at all. Use the trash can icons instead. Important: use the UPPER trash can to delete single properties, use the LOWER trash can to delete property sets. The Delete key is just too vague sometimes with multiple hilites all over the place. At 1:00 PM -0400 6/4/05, Dennis Brown wrote: >I hate to break in here, but just 10 minutes ago, I wanted to delete >a custom property from a field. I selected the property in the >inspector (it was the first one and it was highlighted), I hit >delete, return (did not read the "are you sure" box very carefully) >and every custom property was deleted. I went immediately to the >Edit menu and the undo was available, so I selected it. None of my >custom properties were restored, but the field was still there. I >had to revert to last saved. When I actually try to delete more >than one custom property at a time, I can't even select more than >one. > >Perhaps I did something wrong (operator error), but I can not figure >out what it could have been. I have noticed that the IDE has a >tough time doing the focus right. For instance, I can select the >doc window, click in the find field --it is outlined, then start >typing, only to look up and see that nothing is being typed into the >field. >I have to click on it again before it works. This has happened also >in my stacks. What gives? > >Dennis From kray at sonsothunder.com Sat Jun 4 13:35:54 2005 From: kray at sonsothunder.com (Ken Ray) Date: Sat, 04 Jun 2005 13:35:54 -0400 Subject: formatting times for the user In-Reply-To: <42A1E0F8.7030602@sover.net> Message-ID: > Are there any simple ways to take times (like Player currentPositions or > Durations) and format them for the user so that they look like > "h:mm:ss.hh"? I looked in the help for Format, but no joy. You can use my handy-dandy 'stsConvertTime' function (watch for line wraps); since I think the currentPosition/durations are in milliseconds, you can do this: on mouseUp put the duration of player 1 into tDur put stsConvertTime(tDur,"MS","HH:MM:SS.MS") into tResult answer tResult end mouseUp function stsConvertTime pValue,pInFormat,pOutFormat -- First, convert incoming value to milliseconds if isNumber(pValue) is false then return "Error: Incoming value is not a real number." exit stsConvertTime end if if pInFormat = "" then put "MS" into pInFormat if pOutFormat = "" then put "HH:MM:SS.MS" into pOutFormat switch pInFormat case "H" put (pValue*60*60*1000) into pMS break case "M" put (pValue*60*1000) into pMS break case "S" put (pValue*1000) into pMS break case "T" put (pValue/60)*1000 into pMS break case "MS" put pValue into pMS break end switch put 0 into tSecs put 0 into tMins put 0 into tHrs put pMS div 1000 into tSecs put pMS mod 1000 into tMS put tMS into tVal if tSecs <> 0 then put tSecs div 60 into tMins put tSecs mod 60 into tSecs if tMins <> 0 then put tMins div 60 into tHrs put tMins mod 60 into tMins end if end if -- No format return value if "MS" is in pOutFormat then replace "MS" with tMS in pOutFormat if "HH" is in pOutFormat then replace "HH" with _PadZero(tHrs) in pOutFormat if "H" is in pOutFormat then replace "H" with tHrs in pOutFormat if "MM" is in pOutFormat then replace "MM" with _PadZero(tMins) in pOutFormat if "M" is in pOutFormat then replace "M" with tMins in pOutFormat if "MM" is in pOutFormat then replace "MM" with _PadZero(tMins) in pOutFormat if "M" is in pOutFormat then replace "M" with tMins in pOutFormat if "SS" is in pOutFormat then replace "SS" with _PadZero(tSecs) in pOutFormat if "S" is in pOutFormat then replace "S" with tSecs in pOutFormat return pOutFormat end stsConvertTime function _PadZero pVal if pVal < 10 then return "0" & pVal else return pVal end _PadZero Have fun! Ken Ray Sons of Thunder Software Email: kray at sonsothunder.com Web Site: http://www.sonsothunder.com/ From eric.chatonet at sosmartsoftware.com Sat Jun 4 13:38:17 2005 From: eric.chatonet at sosmartsoftware.com (Eric Chatonet) Date: Sat, 4 Jun 2005 19:38:17 +0200 Subject: formatting times for the user In-Reply-To: <42A1E0F8.7030602@sover.net> References: <42A1E0F8.7030602@sover.net> Message-ID: <4EB6F65E-44BF-4DD8-B49F-0BBD0680D393@sosmartsoftware.com> Hi Jon, In addition to Ken function, these 2 lines may help you: put (the duration of player "MyPlayer"/the timeScale of player "MyPlayer") into tDurationInSeconds -- movie lenght put (the currentTime of player "MyPlayer"/the timeScale of player "MyPlayer") into tCurSeconds -- elapsed time since beginning Le 4 juin 05 ? 19:12, Jon a ?crit : > Are there any simple ways to take times (like Player > currentPositions or Durations) and format them for the user so that > they look like "h:mm:ss.hh"? I looked in the help for Format, but > no joy. Best regards from Paris, Eric Chatonet. ---------------------------------------------------------------- So Smart Software For institutions, companies and associations Built-to-order applications: management, multimedia, internet, etc. Windows, Mac OS and Linux... With the French touch Plugins, tutorials and more on our website ---------------------------------------------------------------- Web site http://www.sosmartsoftware.com/ Email eric.chatonet at sosmartsoftware.com/ Phone 33 (0)1 43 31 77 62 Mobile 33 (0)6 20 74 50 86 ---------------------------------------------------------------- From jbondy at sover.net Sat Jun 4 13:41:13 2005 From: jbondy at sover.net (Jon) Date: Sat, 04 Jun 2005 13:41:13 -0400 Subject: bug In-Reply-To: References: <42A19E7A.8040501@sover.net> Message-ID: <42A1E7B9.7000101@sover.net> A good tip. Better might be an option to disable the key entirely in this situation, if the developer so desired. Old habits (that work in every other program on my computer) die hard. :) Jon Stephen Barncard wrote: > When editing properties, I'd suggest never using the delete key at > all. Use the trash can icons instead. > > Important: use the UPPER trash can to delete single properties, use > the LOWER trash can to delete property sets. The Delete key is just > too vague sometimes with multiple hilites all over the place. > > At 1:00 PM -0400 6/4/05, Dennis Brown wrote: > >> I hate to break in here, but just 10 minutes ago, I wanted to delete >> a custom property from a field. I selected the property in the >> inspector (it was the first one and it was highlighted), I hit >> delete, return (did not read the "are you sure" box very carefully) >> and every custom property was deleted. I went immediately to the >> Edit menu and the undo was available, so I selected it. None of my >> custom properties were restored, but the field was still there. I >> had to revert to last saved. When I actually try to delete more than >> one custom property at a time, I can't even select more than one. >> >> Perhaps I did something wrong (operator error), but I can not figure >> out what it could have been. I have noticed that the IDE has a tough >> time doing the focus right. For instance, I can select the doc >> window, click in the find field --it is outlined, then start typing, >> only to look up and see that nothing is being typed into the field. >> I have to click on it again before it works. This has happened also >> in my stacks. What gives? >> >> Dennis > > _______________________________________________ > use-revolution mailing list > use-revolution at lists.runrev.com > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution > > From see3d at writeme.com Sat Jun 4 13:59:28 2005 From: see3d at writeme.com (Dennis Brown) Date: Sat, 04 Jun 2005 13:59:28 -0400 Subject: bug In-Reply-To: References: <42A19E7A.8040501@sover.net> Message-ID: <63B6E8B3-2369-40DA-9351-109989D88278@writeme.com> When I said I hit delete, I meant I hit the delete icon (trash can). I must have hit the lower trash can that time. They really should make the distinction more clear in the user interface --both trash cans are next to the field with a hilited line. In any case I tried it again, and sure enough, the undo does not undo a delete of the property set. Then I quit Rev and it did not ask if I wanted to save. Lots of cracks in the IDE. Dennis On Jun 4, 2005, at 1:34 PM, Stephen Barncard wrote: > When editing properties, I'd suggest never using the delete key at > all. Use the trash can icons instead. > > Important: use the UPPER trash can to delete single properties, use > the LOWER trash can to delete property sets. The Delete key is just > too vague sometimes with multiple hilites all over the place. > > At 1:00 PM -0400 6/4/05, Dennis Brown wrote: > >> I hate to break in here, but just 10 minutes ago, I wanted to >> delete a custom property from a field. I selected the property in >> the inspector (it was the first one and it was highlighted), I hit >> delete, return (did not read the "are you sure" box very >> carefully) and every custom property was deleted. I went >> immediately to the Edit menu and the undo was available, so I >> selected it. None of my custom properties were restored, but the >> field was still there. I had to revert to last saved. When I >> actually try to delete more than one custom property at a time, I >> can't even select more than one. >> >> Perhaps I did something wrong (operator error), but I can not >> figure out what it could have been. I have noticed that the IDE >> has a tough time doing the focus right. For instance, I can >> select the doc window, click in the find field --it is outlined, >> then start typing, only to look up and see that nothing is being >> typed into the field. I have to click on it again before it >> works. This has happened also in my stacks. What gives? >> >> Dennis >> > _______________________________________________ > use-revolution mailing list > use-revolution at lists.runrev.com > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution > From davethebrv at crystalpiersw.com Sat Jun 4 14:03:46 2005 From: davethebrv at crystalpiersw.com (Dave Beck) Date: Sat, 4 Jun 2005 11:03:46 -0700 Subject: get URL returning empty string In-Reply-To: <20050602183713.9A472930386@mail.runrev.com> Message-ID: <20050604172150.B80B1930058@mail.runrev.com> Thanks Chipp and Alex! Taking your expert advise, I had the customer do a few tests try to determine if "get URL" is returning an empty string because 1) a proxy server or firewall issue, or 2) a problem accessing the web page that is more general then from inside Rev. However, it seems as though this problem is isolated to revolution since the page loads correctly in a browser, and since the customer is connecting via a dialup connection (56k modem, service by CoreComm), I don't think a proxy server or firewall could be involved (?). A curious phenomena is that just before the attempt to load the page with "get URL", the script uploads a small file to the server with the "put URL" command. That upload seems to be working without a problem. It is only the proceeding "get URL" form that is failing. Might it be possible that the non-blocking "load" command would work better? Also, I don't know much about sockets, but from what I've read it seems that using sockets instead of my current "upload request file / retrieve result from php script" model is a more standard way to communicate with a server. Do you have any thoughts you could share on switching to a socket model? Thanks again. I am not familiar with these sorts of networking issues and it is a true blessing to be able to benefit from your knowledge and experience. I really appreciate you taking the time to help me out! Dave Beck >Dave, > >Your welcome. The next thing I would check is to see if your user is >behind a proxy server which need authentication. My guess he is in an >enterprise environment and that they are using some sort of >authentication scheme. If you can identify which scheme they are using, >we can begin to work it from there. > >best, > >Chipp > From jbondy at sover.net Sat Jun 4 14:12:45 2005 From: jbondy at sover.net (Jon) Date: Sat, 04 Jun 2005 14:12:45 -0400 Subject: bug In-Reply-To: <63B6E8B3-2369-40DA-9351-109989D88278@writeme.com> References: <42A19E7A.8040501@sover.net> <63B6E8B3-2369-40DA-9351-109989D88278@writeme.com> Message-ID: <42A1EF1D.80302@sover.net> Dennis: You said "lots of cracks in the IDE". I'd have to agree. I've given up on saving scripts, and now only delete/kill the script editors. That way I'm SURE to see the error messages. Far too often I have "saved" a script and the save did not take, with no error window visible. Too bad window visibility is handled correctly during a script editor kill, but not when saving a script. It can't be that hard to do the latter correctly if the former is correct. Window visibility is a problem in general with the IDE: do an away from Rev and an to go back, and a different window appears within Rev, not the one you were working on. Do a save and focus flies away to a context other than the one you were working on. Lots of windows pop up so that they cannot be controlled (kill or minimize buttons hidden behind other windows) and many windows cannot be hidden at all, and can only be killed, forcing the user to reactivate them from scratch. I like the (theoretical?) cross-platform aspect of Rev, and some things are fairly easy to do in it, but the conceptual base is verbose and the implementation is buggy. Sigh. Jon Dennis Brown wrote: > When I said I hit delete, I meant I hit the delete icon (trash can). > I must have hit the lower trash can that time. They really should > make the distinction more clear in the user interface --both trash > cans are next to the field with a hilited line. In any case I tried > it again, and sure enough, the undo does not undo a delete of the > property set. Then I quit Rev and it did not ask if I wanted to > save. Lots of cracks in the IDE. > > Dennis > > On Jun 4, 2005, at 1:34 PM, Stephen Barncard wrote: > >> When editing properties, I'd suggest never using the delete key at >> all. Use the trash can icons instead. >> >> Important: use the UPPER trash can to delete single properties, use >> the LOWER trash can to delete property sets. The Delete key is just >> too vague sometimes with multiple hilites all over the place. >> >> At 1:00 PM -0400 6/4/05, Dennis Brown wrote: >> >>> I hate to break in here, but just 10 minutes ago, I wanted to >>> delete a custom property from a field. I selected the property in >>> the inspector (it was the first one and it was highlighted), I hit >>> delete, return (did not read the "are you sure" box very carefully) >>> and every custom property was deleted. I went immediately to the >>> Edit menu and the undo was available, so I selected it. None of my >>> custom properties were restored, but the field was still there. I >>> had to revert to last saved. When I actually try to delete more >>> than one custom property at a time, I can't even select more than one. >>> >>> Perhaps I did something wrong (operator error), but I can not >>> figure out what it could have been. I have noticed that the IDE >>> has a tough time doing the focus right. For instance, I can select >>> the doc window, click in the find field --it is outlined, then >>> start typing, only to look up and see that nothing is being typed >>> into the field. I have to click on it again before it works. This >>> has happened also in my stacks. What gives? >>> >>> Dennis >>> >> _______________________________________________ >> use-revolution mailing list >> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution >> > > _______________________________________________ > use-revolution mailing list > use-revolution at lists.runrev.com > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution > > From jbondy at sover.net Sat Jun 4 14:13:52 2005 From: jbondy at sover.net (Jon) Date: Sat, 04 Jun 2005 14:13:52 -0400 Subject: formatting times for the user In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <42A1EF60.6060602@sover.net> Ken: Thanks. I came up with these on my own. Good enough for now. :) Jon function timeToStr pTime -- mm:ss.hh local m, s divide pTime by the timeScale of player "myPlayer" put pTime div 60 into m put pTime mod 60 into pTime put format("%2.0f:%2.2f", m, pTime) into pTime return pTime end timeToStr function StrToTime pTime -- assumes same format as TimeToStr local mStr, sStr put char 1 to 2 of pTime into mStr put char 4 to 8 of pTime into sStr return ((mStr * 60) + sStr) * the timeScale of player "myPlayer" end StrToTime Ken Ray wrote: >>Are there any simple ways to take times (like Player currentPositions or >>Durations) and format them for the user so that they look like >>"h:mm:ss.hh"? I looked in the help for Format, but no joy. >> >> > >You can use my handy-dandy 'stsConvertTime' function (watch for line wraps); >since I think the currentPosition/durations are in milliseconds, you can do >this: > >on mouseUp > put the duration of player 1 into tDur > put stsConvertTime(tDur,"MS","HH:MM:SS.MS") into tResult > answer tResult >end mouseUp > >function stsConvertTime pValue,pInFormat,pOutFormat > -- First, convert incoming value to milliseconds > if isNumber(pValue) is false then > return "Error: Incoming value is not a real number." > exit stsConvertTime > end if > > if pInFormat = "" then put "MS" into pInFormat > if pOutFormat = "" then put "HH:MM:SS.MS" into pOutFormat > > switch pInFormat > case "H" > put (pValue*60*60*1000) into pMS > break > case "M" > put (pValue*60*1000) into pMS > break > case "S" > put (pValue*1000) into pMS > break > case "T" > put (pValue/60)*1000 into pMS > break > case "MS" > put pValue into pMS > break > end switch > put 0 into tSecs > put 0 into tMins > put 0 into tHrs > put pMS div 1000 into tSecs > put pMS mod 1000 into tMS > put tMS into tVal > if tSecs <> 0 then > put tSecs div 60 into tMins > put tSecs mod 60 into tSecs > if tMins <> 0 then > put tMins div 60 into tHrs > put tMins mod 60 into tMins > end if > end if > -- No format return value > if "MS" is in pOutFormat then replace "MS" with tMS in pOutFormat > if "HH" is in pOutFormat then replace "HH" with _PadZero(tHrs) in >pOutFormat > if "H" is in pOutFormat then replace "H" with tHrs in pOutFormat > if "MM" is in pOutFormat then replace "MM" with _PadZero(tMins) in >pOutFormat > if "M" is in pOutFormat then replace "M" with tMins in pOutFormat > if "MM" is in pOutFormat then replace "MM" with _PadZero(tMins) in >pOutFormat > if "M" is in pOutFormat then replace "M" with tMins in pOutFormat > if "SS" is in pOutFormat then replace "SS" with _PadZero(tSecs) in >pOutFormat > if "S" is in pOutFormat then replace "S" with tSecs in pOutFormat > return pOutFormat >end stsConvertTime > >function _PadZero pVal > if pVal < 10 then return "0" & pVal > else return pVal >end _PadZero > >Have fun! > > >Ken Ray >Sons of Thunder Software >Email: kray at sonsothunder.com >Web Site: http://www.sonsothunder.com/ > > > >_______________________________________________ >use-revolution mailing list >use-revolution at lists.runrev.com >http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution > > > > From soapdog at mac.com Sat Jun 4 14:14:38 2005 From: soapdog at mac.com (Andre Garzia) Date: Sat, 4 Jun 2005 15:14:38 -0300 Subject: running rev cgi on Mac OS X Server In-Reply-To: <96B2D94D-F8D8-4ACD-BAFD-08C60971BF13@mac.com> References: <96B2D94D-F8D8-4ACD-BAFD-08C60971BF13@mac.com> Message-ID: On Jun 4, 2005, at 1:23 PM, Todd Higgins wrote: > Thanks BvG, I could swear that I tried the link from the tutorial last > night and all I got was a 403 Forbidden page. It was the engine, > everything is working now. > > Todd > Todd, take a look into libCGI is a real timesaver. Also if you happen to be at RevConWest would be fun to see you there in the CGI track. Cheers andre > -- Andre Alves Garzia ? 2004 ? BRAZIL http://studio.soapdog.org From stephenREVOLUTION at barncard.com Sat Jun 4 14:25:36 2005 From: stephenREVOLUTION at barncard.com (Stephen Barncard) Date: Sat, 4 Jun 2005 11:25:36 -0700 Subject: bug In-Reply-To: <42A1EF1D.80302@sover.net> References: <42A19E7A.8040501@sover.net> <63B6E8B3-2369-40DA-9351-109989D88278@writeme.com> <42A1EF1D.80302@sover.net> Message-ID: What do you mean by delete/kill the script editors? I've never seen that term before, nor have I had problems saving scripts, except when I've done some name changes to stacks, which would really be my fault. I just type and the script commits and the window closes. Then I do a save of the stack.. Also you have not mentioned the platform that you are having window problems with. Mac OSX in general has a fairly rude window management/priority scheme, IMHO, compared to OS9. At 2:12 PM -0400 6/4/05, Jon wrote: >Dennis: > >You said "lots of cracks in the IDE". I'd have to agree. >I've given up on saving scripts, and now only delete/kill the script >editors. That way I'm SURE to see the error messages. Far too >often I have "saved" a script and the save did not take, with no >error window visible. Too bad window visibility is handled >correctly during a script editor kill, but not when saving a script. >It can't be that hard to do the latter correctly if the former is >correct. > >Window visibility is a problem in general with the IDE: do an > away from Rev and an to go back, and a >different window appears within Rev, not the one you were working >on. Do a save and focus flies away to a context other than the one >you were working on. Lots of windows pop up so that they cannot be >controlled (kill or minimize buttons hidden behind other windows) >and many windows cannot be hidden at all, and can only be killed, >forcing the user to reactivate them from scratch. > >I like the (theoretical?) cross-platform aspect of Rev, and some >things are fairly easy to do in it, but the conceptual base is >verbose and the implementation is buggy. Sigh. > >Jon > From rev at armbase.com Sat Jun 4 14:36:06 2005 From: rev at armbase.com (Bob Hartley) Date: Sat, 4 Jun 2005 19:36:06 +0100 Subject: delete object problem Message-ID: Hi All I have a script that deletes objects from groups, Either all objects via repeat or single objects in reverse order. However, I'd like to delete object an object in the middel IE element 4 of 7. (this ma vary so I cannot use a static script. Is there a way for the end user to old down the delete key and then click on a field or button within a group and have that object delete? I thought of something like on mouseup if te deletekey is down then delete me end mouseup Unfortuinately this doesn't work. Any ideas Cheers bob From jbondy at sover.net Sat Jun 4 14:40:33 2005 From: jbondy at sover.net (Jon) Date: Sat, 04 Jun 2005 14:40:33 -0400 Subject: bug In-Reply-To: References: <42A19E7A.8040501@sover.net> <63B6E8B3-2369-40DA-9351-109989D88278@writeme.com> <42A1EF1D.80302@sover.net> Message-ID: <42A1F5A1.7000606@sover.net> Stephen: When I say "delete/kill a script editor" I mean to click on the red "X" icon in the upper right corner of the editor. This causes the editor to terminate. If the script has not been saved, the save/cancel/abandon dialog comes up. Somehow going this route forces the error message window to become visible, something that does not occur if you just do a Save. In the latter case, it says "saving" cheerfully, and never mentions the fact that the save failed. In addition, the Apply button goes from black to trey, implying that the save succeeded. Very misleading. Why do I think the Rev development team works on a Mac and not under Windows Windows XP. Not that I'm proud of it . This whole Revolution push on my part is an attempt to see if I can create cross platform tools so that I can move to the Mac without feeling helpless, and so that I can share my tools with my Mac friends. :) Jon Stephen Barncard wrote: > What do you mean by delete/kill the script editors? I've never seen > that term before, nor have I had problems saving scripts, except when > I've done some name changes to stacks, which would really be my fault. > I just type and the script commits and the window > closes. Then I do a save of the stack.. > > Also you have not mentioned the platform that you are having window > problems with. Mac OSX in general has a fairly rude window > management/priority scheme, IMHO, compared to OS9. > > At 2:12 PM -0400 6/4/05, Jon wrote: > >> Dennis: >> >> You said "lots of cracks in the IDE". I'd have to agree. >> I've given up on saving scripts, and now only delete/kill the script >> editors. That way I'm SURE to see the error messages. Far too often >> I have "saved" a script and the save did not take, with no error >> window visible. Too bad window visibility is handled correctly >> during a script editor kill, but not when saving a script. It can't >> be that hard to do the latter correctly if the former is correct. >> >> Window visibility is a problem in general with the IDE: do an >> away from Rev and an to go back, and a >> different window appears within Rev, not the one you were working >> on. Do a save and focus flies away to a context other than the one >> you were working on. Lots of windows pop up so that they cannot be >> controlled (kill or minimize buttons hidden behind other windows) and >> many windows cannot be hidden at all, and can only be killed, forcing >> the user to reactivate them from scratch. >> >> I like the (theoretical?) cross-platform aspect of Rev, and some >> things are fairly easy to do in it, but the conceptual base is >> verbose and the implementation is buggy. Sigh. >> >> Jon >> > _______________________________________________ > use-revolution mailing list > use-revolution at lists.runrev.com > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution > > From jacque at hyperactivesw.com Sat Jun 4 14:55:00 2005 From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay) Date: Sat, 04 Jun 2005 13:55:00 -0500 Subject: bug In-Reply-To: <42A1EF1D.80302@sover.net> References: <42A19E7A.8040501@sover.net> <63B6E8B3-2369-40DA-9351-109989D88278@writeme.com> <42A1EF1D.80302@sover.net> Message-ID: <42A1F904.7090408@hyperactivesw.com> On 6/4/05 1:12 PM, Jon wrote: > I've given up on saving scripts, and now only delete/kill the script > editors. That way I'm SURE to see the error messages. Far too often I > have "saved" a script and the save did not take, with no error window > visible. I have never seen this, ever. To save/apply a script, either click the button at the bottom of the editor, or hit the Enter key on the keyboard while your cursor is somewhere in the script itself. To close the script editor window, hit the Enter key a second time. You should get any relevant error messages after the first "apply" (Enter key) is done. If you mean you are clicking the close box on the editor window itself, you can do that, and you should get any compile error messages that way too. It is more standard to use either the Apply button or the Enter key though (and quicker.) Note that there are two kinds of errors in scripts. There are compile errors, which the IDE will warn you about when you try to apply a script, and there are also runtime errors, which will not be evident until the script actually executes. Runtime errors can't be caught during the compile process and you won't see warnings about those until they actually happen. -- Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com From jacque at hyperactivesw.com Sat Jun 4 14:58:31 2005 From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay) Date: Sat, 04 Jun 2005 13:58:31 -0500 Subject: Scripting conferences supporting stacks In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <42A1F9D7.3090203@hyperactivesw.com> On 6/4/05 2:49 AM, Eric Chatonet wrote: > Hi everyone, > > It's the week-end. > So, to rest :-), I had a look to the scripting conferences supporting > stacks (http://support.runrev.com/scriptingconferences/) and especially > to the last one about controls from Klaus Major. > Kudos! > > These tutorials should be declared directed to the public benefit > especially for beginners. > These tutorials should be included in the Rev package. > These tutorials should be posted to Rev Online. > These tutorials should be announced on this list in capital letters. > > Please, go and download: I see so many questions on this list the right > answers of which are in these stacks... with Klaus humour as a free gift! It is very rewarding to hear these are useful; thanks! We have a wonderful conference coming up in a week, the Message Hierarchy by Richard Gaskin. I will be uploading his stack on Monday and will try to remember to announce it in all capital letters. ;) There is a brief link to the conference stacks on the front page of the RR site, under the "latest news" heading, but maybe I should poke the team to make it a bit more prominent somewhere for newcomers. I'll pass on your suggestions. Having the stacks on RevOnline isn't a bad idea either. -- Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com From ambassador at fourthworld.com Sat Jun 4 15:00:15 2005 From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin) Date: Sat, 04 Jun 2005 12:00:15 -0700 Subject: Scripting conferences supporting stacks In-Reply-To: <42A1F9D7.3090203@hyperactivesw.com> References: <42A1F9D7.3090203@hyperactivesw.com> Message-ID: <42A1FA3F.1000201@fourthworld.com> J. Landman Gay wrote: > Having the stacks on RevOnline isn't a bad idea > either. Any objections to my adding them to RevNet? -- Richard Gaskin Fourth World Media Corporation __________________________________________________ Rev tools and more: http://www.fourthworld.com/rev From mwieder at ahsoftware.net Sat Jun 4 15:01:45 2005 From: mwieder at ahsoftware.net (Mark Wieder) Date: Sat, 4 Jun 2005 12:01:45 -0700 Subject: bug In-Reply-To: <42A1F5A1.7000606@sover.net> References: <42A19E7A.8040501@sover.net> <42A1EF1D.80302@sover.net> <42A1F5A1.7000606@sover.net> Message-ID: <244222711.20050604120145@ahsoftware.net> Jon- Saturday, June 4, 2005, 11:40:33 AM, you wrote: Saving an open script forces an "apply and save". If you have script errors you will get an error dialog and you have to correct the errors before the script can be compiler ("applied") and saved. You can force the save of a script with errors in the way you have been doing, but it's in an indeterminate state at that point (saved as text only, not compiled). Continuing from that point is risky. The only time I ever do that is when my eyes just won't focus anymore and I need to shut things down without commenting out the errors. Even then I will probably just comment out the whole script and click Apply. And go to bed until I can think straight again. -- -Mark Wieder mwieder at ahsoftware.net From mwieder at ahsoftware.net Sat Jun 4 15:04:02 2005 From: mwieder at ahsoftware.net (Mark Wieder) Date: Sat, 4 Jun 2005 12:04:02 -0700 Subject: bug In-Reply-To: <42A1EF1D.80302@sover.net> References: <42A19E7A.8040501@sover.net> <42A1EF1D.80302@sover.net> Message-ID: <504359879.20050604120402@ahsoftware.net> Jon- Saturday, June 4, 2005, 11:12:45 AM, you wrote: J> editors. That way I'm SURE to see the error messages. Far too often I J> have "saved" a script and the save did not take, with no error window J> visible. Too bad window visibility is handled correctly during a script I've NEVER seen this happen. If you've got a recipe for it, please Bugzilla it. -- -Mark Wieder mwieder at ahsoftware.net From mwieder at ahsoftware.net Sat Jun 4 15:06:21 2005 From: mwieder at ahsoftware.net (Mark Wieder) Date: Sat, 4 Jun 2005 12:06:21 -0700 Subject: bug In-Reply-To: <63B6E8B3-2369-40DA-9351-109989D88278@writeme.com> References: <42A19E7A.8040501@sover.net> <63B6E8B3-2369-40DA-9351-109989D88278@writeme.com> Message-ID: <1184499139.20050604120621@ahsoftware.net> Dennis- Saturday, June 4, 2005, 10:59:28 AM, you wrote: DB> When I said I hit delete, I meant I hit the delete icon (trash can). DB> I must have hit the lower trash can that time. They really should DB> make the distinction more clear in the user interface --both trash DB> cans are next to the field with a hilited line. In any case I tried DB> it again, and sure enough, the undo does not undo a delete of the DB> property set. Then I quit Rev and it did not ask if I wanted to DB> save. Lots of cracks in the IDE. In my experience, undo rarely undoes. I just don't even try anymore. -- -Mark Wieder mwieder at ahsoftware.net From jbv.silences at Club-Internet.fr Sat Jun 4 15:15:23 2005 From: jbv.silences at Club-Internet.fr (jbv) Date: Sat, 04 Jun 2005 21:15:23 +0200 Subject: A slightly disturbing problem about items Message-ID: <42A1FDCA.989AF72C@Club-Internet.fr> Example 1 : on mouseUp put "" into L repeat with i=1 to 5 put i & comma after L end repeat put number of items of L end mouseUp the answer is "5" --------------- Example 2 : on mouseUp put "" into L repeat with i=1 to 5 put i & comma after L end repeat sort items of L ascending numeric put number of items of L end mouseUp the answer is "6" Any comment ? JB From ambassador at fourthworld.com Sat Jun 4 15:10:56 2005 From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin) Date: Sat, 04 Jun 2005 12:10:56 -0700 Subject: bug In-Reply-To: <1184499139.20050604120621@ahsoftware.net> References: <42A19E7A.8040501@sover.net> <63B6E8B3-2369-40DA-9351-109989D88278@writeme.com> <1184499139.20050604120621@ahsoftware.net> Message-ID: <42A1FCC0.2050106@fourthworld.com> Mark Wieder wrote: > In my experience, undo rarely undoes. I just don't even try anymore. Undo is a very deep challenge in any app, more so in something like Rev where scripts can pull the rug out from under the engine at any time. Personally, I wouldn't mind if there was a release focused solely on cleaning up and extending undo, providing an architecture for us to hook into as well. It's a big task, deserving of the time required. -- Richard Gaskin Fourth World Media Corporation __________________________________________________ Rev tools and more: http://www.fourthworld.com/rev From jacque at hyperactivesw.com Sat Jun 4 15:18:10 2005 From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay) Date: Sat, 04 Jun 2005 14:18:10 -0500 Subject: Scripting conferences supporting stacks In-Reply-To: <42A1FA3F.1000201@fourthworld.com> References: <42A1F9D7.3090203@hyperactivesw.com> <42A1FA3F.1000201@fourthworld.com> Message-ID: <42A1FE72.4070107@hyperactivesw.com> On 6/4/05 2:00 PM, Richard Gaskin wrote: > J. Landman Gay wrote: > >> Having the stacks on RevOnline isn't a bad idea either. > > > Any objections to my adding them to RevNet? Not at all, on my part. The more the merrier. You should probably mention in the description that the stacks belong to RR, I suppose. -- Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com From soapdog at mac.com Sat Jun 4 15:23:42 2005 From: soapdog at mac.com (Andre Garzia) Date: Sat, 4 Jun 2005 16:23:42 -0300 Subject: Trouble with HTTPS certificate Message-ID: <79001609ca0f2337189e221b49ba3976@mac.com> Hi folks, can someone shed a clue on this error message trying to post to a HTTPS secure url? error -Error with certificate at depth: 1 issuer = /C=ZA/ST=Western Cape/L=Cape Town/O=Thawte Consulting cc/OU=Certification Services Division/CN=Thawte Server CA/Email=server-certs at thawte.com subject = /C=ZA/O=Thawte Consulting (Pty) Ltd./CN=Thawte SSL Domain CA err 20:unable to get local issuer certificate What the hell is happening? my certificate is old? folks, I need this asap, I need to post to secure urls, any clue would be fine. I am on MacOS X 10.3.9 using Rev 2.5.1 Enterprize. thanks in advance for the help cheers andre -- Andre Alves Garzia ? 2004 ? BRAZIL http://studio.soapdog.org From soapdog at mac.com Sat Jun 4 15:53:14 2005 From: soapdog at mac.com (Andre Garzia) Date: Sat, 4 Jun 2005 16:53:14 -0300 Subject: Trouble with HTTPS certificate In-Reply-To: <79001609ca0f2337189e221b49ba3976@mac.com> References: <79001609ca0f2337189e221b49ba3976@mac.com> Message-ID: <8fdcfc7ecdcd618d4c4e9e63b21e213b@mac.com> ARRRGHHHHH!!!!! it's getting worse!!!!! I tried using root.crt from CACert.com and nothing. Tried to use test.pem from PLT Group and nothing, always the same return value. my code is this: get fld 2 set the sslcertificates to "~/Desktop/root.crt" & cr post it to URL "" put the result & cr & it & cr & "cert:" && the sslcertificates & "fim" pretty easy ain't it? yes, for this email I removed the https url, but in the code it is there!!! what am I doing wrong! thanks andre On Jun 4, 2005, at 4:23 PM, Andre Garzia wrote: > Hi folks, > > can someone shed a clue on this error message trying to post to a > HTTPS secure url? > > error -Error with certificate at depth: 1 issuer = /C=ZA/ST=Western > Cape/L=Cape Town/O=Thawte Consulting cc/OU=Certification Services > Division/CN=Thawte Server CA/Email=server-certs at thawte.com subject = > /C=ZA/O=Thawte Consulting (Pty) Ltd./CN=Thawte SSL Domain CA err > 20:unable to get local issuer certificate > > What the hell is happening? my certificate is old? > > folks, I need this asap, I need to post to secure urls, any clue would > be fine. > > I am on MacOS X 10.3.9 using Rev 2.5.1 Enterprize. > > thanks in advance for the help > cheers > andre > -- > Andre Alves Garzia ? 2004 ? BRAZIL > http://studio.soapdog.org > _______________________________________________ > use-revolution mailing list > use-revolution at lists.runrev.com > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution > > -- Andre Alves Garzia ? 2004 ? BRAZIL http://studio.soapdog.org From jmac at consensustech.com Sat Jun 4 15:55:49 2005 From: jmac at consensustech.com (Jim MacConnell) Date: Sat, 04 Jun 2005 12:55:49 -0700 Subject: bug In-Reply-To: <244222711.20050604120145@ahsoftware.net> Message-ID: Mark Wieder wrote on 6/4/05 12:01 PM: > Even > then I will probably just comment out the whole script and click > Apply. And go to bed until I can think straight again. Now why haven't I ever thought of that... Shows what a hobbyist I am.... I try to keep going until I've got the bug squashed and often end up in that nasty hung state where nothing works and basically throw everything recent away. Commenting out the whole script is a cool idea. btw: Another fine example of the simple but incredibly valuable things that I learn from this list.... I love it! Jim From soapdog at mac.com Sat Jun 4 16:16:57 2005 From: soapdog at mac.com (Andre Garzia) Date: Sat, 4 Jun 2005 17:16:57 -0300 Subject: Trouble with HTTPS certificate (getting worse...) In-Reply-To: <8fdcfc7ecdcd618d4c4e9e63b21e213b@mac.com> References: <79001609ca0f2337189e221b49ba3976@mac.com> <8fdcfc7ecdcd618d4c4e9e63b21e213b@mac.com> Message-ID: <60416815b93c20446df4010685722e07@mac.com> So Far, I've tried: CACert.com Root Certificate PLT Group Test.pem Comodo Security Services CA Root Certificate (which should expire only in 2006) GTE Trust Root CA Root Certificate (which also should be valid till 2006) All Them return the same: error -Error with certificate at depth: 1 issuer = /C=ZA/ST=Western Cape/L=Cape Town/O=Thawte Consulting cc/OU=Certification Services Division/CN=Thawte Server CA/Email=server-certs at thawte.com subject = /C=ZA/O=Thawte Consulting (Pty) Ltd./CN=Thawte SSL Domain CA err 20:unable to get local issuer certificate Which is means nothing to me... can someone shed a light? Andre On Jun 4, 2005, at 4:53 PM, Andre Garzia wrote: > ARRRGHHHHH!!!!! > > > it's getting worse!!!!! I tried using root.crt from CACert.com and > nothing. Tried to use test.pem from PLT Group and nothing, always the > same return value. my code is this: > > get fld 2 > set the sslcertificates to "~/Desktop/root.crt" & cr > post it to URL "" > put the result & cr & it & cr & "cert:" && the sslcertificates & > "fim" > > > pretty easy ain't it? yes, for this email I removed the https url, but > in the code it is there!!! what am I doing wrong! > > > thanks > andre > > > On Jun 4, 2005, at 4:23 PM, Andre Garzia wrote: > >> Hi folks, >> >> can someone shed a clue on this error message trying to post to a >> HTTPS secure url? >> >> error -Error with certificate at depth: 1 issuer = >> /C=ZA/ST=Western Cape/L=Cape Town/O=Thawte Consulting >> cc/OU=Certification Services Division/CN=Thawte Server >> CA/Email=server-certs at thawte.com subject = /C=ZA/O=Thawte >> Consulting (Pty) Ltd./CN=Thawte SSL Domain CA err 20:unable to get >> local issuer certificate >> >> What the hell is happening? my certificate is old? >> >> folks, I need this asap, I need to post to secure urls, any clue >> would be fine. >> >> I am on MacOS X 10.3.9 using Rev 2.5.1 Enterprize. >> >> thanks in advance for the help >> cheers >> andre >> -- >> Andre Alves Garzia ? 2004 ? BRAZIL >> http://studio.soapdog.org >> _______________________________________________ >> use-revolution mailing list >> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution >> >> > -- > Andre Alves Garzia ? 2004 ? BRAZIL > http://studio.soapdog.org > > _______________________________________________ > use-revolution mailing list > use-revolution at lists.runrev.com > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution > > -- Andre Alves Garzia ? 2004 ? BRAZIL http://studio.soapdog.org From stephenREVOLUTION at barncard.com Sat Jun 4 16:23:23 2005 From: stephenREVOLUTION at barncard.com (Stephen Barncard) Date: Sat, 4 Jun 2005 13:23:23 -0700 Subject: bug In-Reply-To: <42A1F5A1.7000606@sover.net> References: <42A19E7A.8040501@sover.net> <63B6E8B3-2369-40DA-9351-109989D88278@writeme.com> <42A1EF1D.80302@sover.net> <42A1F5A1.7000606@sover.net> Message-ID: At 2:40 PM -0400 6/4/05, Jon wrote: >Stephen: > >When I say "delete/kill a script editor" I mean to click on the red >"X" icon in the upper right corner of the editor. This causes the >editor to terminate. If .. >Somehow going this route forces the error message window to become visible, I don't think you have to do that... it is possible your checkbox in Preferences>Script Editor for hide errors is checked? I get the errors on top all the time with it unchecked... >Windows XP. Not that I'm proud of it . This whole >Revolution push on my part is an attempt to see if I can create >cross platform tools so that I can move to the Mac without feeling >helpless, and so that I can share my tools with my Mac friends. And a noble reason, indeed. > >:) > >Jon > From JimAultWins at yahoo.com Sat Jun 4 16:37:15 2005 From: JimAultWins at yahoo.com (Jim Ault) Date: Sat, 04 Jun 2005 13:37:15 -0700 Subject: sort question In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Yes, Wouter, you are right. Your sort result is true and exactly correct, given the data source. I am also on a Mac, but that should make absolutely no difference. First four sorted values in the output list are > 10.101- > 11.151- > 4.101- > 5.101.1- which a TEXT sort, because there is a trailing space on each of these lines, which means that this will not be a good number sort. The answer is to clean the data or adjust the function to handle characters after the "-" sign. (Beware when positive numbers are used and there is no sign, or there are multiple spaces.) After that, the sorted values are indeed numeric from -20.101 ascending to -1.101 Removing all spaces would give a numeric result using all lines. Adding ->(replace " " with "" in tSource) should do the trick. So, all is well and functioning with Rev's sort :-) Jim Ault Las Vegas PS The reason "10.101- " becomes a text sort is that the parsing function, as I wrote it, will build the following "- 10.101" rather than "-10.101". Notice the space after the "-". (I was not expecting spaces to be there) On 6/3/05 7:33 PM, "Wouter" wrote: > > On 03 Jun 2005, at 20:09, Jim Ault wrote: > >> Greetings, jack > > snip > > >> on sortFldSource >> put fld "source" into tSource --lines to sort >> sort lines of tSource numeric by numberConvert(each) >> put tSource into fld "destination" --output for your review >> end sortFldSource >> >> function numberConvert pStrToConvert >> if pStrToConvert is "" then >> return "" >> else >> set itemdel to "." >> if the last char of pStrToConvert is "-" then >> put the last char of pStrToConvert into tSign >> delete the last char of pStrToConvert >> end if >> put item 1 of pStrToConvert into tIntPart >> put item 2 of pStrToConvert into tDecPart1 >> if the number of items in pStrToConvert > 2 then >> put item 3 of pStrToConvert into tDecPart2 >> else >> put "" into tDecPart2 >> end if >> put tSign & tIntPart & "." & tDecPart1 & tDecPart2 into tReply >> return tReply >> end if >> end numberConvert >> >> Thanks to jeanne a. e. devoto for this (each) form of the "sort >> lines of" >> command. >> >> Jim Ault >> Las Vegas >> >> On 6/3/05 9:45 AM, "revinfo1155 at aol.com" wrote: > > Hi Jim, > > I don't know on your computer but on my mac this handler gives the > following result for Jack's list: > > 10.101- > 11.151- > 4.101- > 5.101.1- > 20.101- > 11.101.1- > 10.501- > 10.401- > 10.351- > 10.301.1- > 10.201- > 9.351- > 9.101.1- > 8.301- > 8.101- > 7.501.1- > 7.401- > 7.251- > 7.201.1- > 7.151.1- > 7.101- > 6.401.1- > 6.301- > 6.201.1- > 6.101.1- > 5.701- > 5.651- > 5.501- > 5.451- > 5.401- > 5.351.1- > 5.301- > 5.201- > 5.151- > 4.991- > 3.101- > 2.301- > 2.101- > 1.101- --snip -- > Greetings, > Wouter > _______________________________________________ > use-revolution mailing list > use-revolution at lists.runrev.com > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution From ralf at dol.net Sat Jun 4 17:08:35 2005 From: ralf at dol.net (Ralph R. Forehand) Date: Sat, 4 Jun 2005 17:08:35 -0400 Subject: Rev. User Groups in the USA (RUGs/USA)? In-Reply-To: <42A1C801.9010307@gmail.com> References: <20050603091750.4D9F59300E8@mail.runrev.com> <7abbebb2ffd5a9f83d0592ab129dae85@earthlink.net> <11004917.1117836912261.JavaMail.smilingeyes@mac.com> <42A1C801.9010307@gmail.com> Message-ID: All, The list of you interested Rev. Users Groups is growing. It looks very promising for the Mid-Atlantic/South Eastern US region ay this point. I expect to be in the Atlanta area (attending a Convention) July 20th-23nd. I would like to hear from anyone who might like to meet informally to discuss RUGs and/or any future Rev. Users gatherings. Also I'd like to hear from anyone else interested in Rev. User Groups and or Rev. Users gatherings. I can serve as a focal point for "RUGs/USA" information. Please feel free to contact me off-list at ralf at dol.net if you prefer, More Later and TAKE CARE, Ralph From katir at hindu.org Sat Jun 4 17:13:10 2005 From: katir at hindu.org (Sivakatirswami) Date: Sat, 4 Jun 2005 11:13:10 -1000 Subject: Protecting Log In Info In-Reply-To: <86BC84DE-7576-457E-B501-EEC2447BA019@lacscentre.co.uk> References: <86BC84DE-7576-457E-B501-EEC2447BA019@lacscentre.co.uk> Message-ID: <673497EF-CE33-4F3F-9D1F-2561A4EBA749@hindu.org> Interesting solution and since we have our own server, very doable. (musing ) Though since the user would needs an ID and log in to access the server (which one must send to them some how, by email, fax, telephone) not sure how much more that gets you than just giving the them the FTP log ins directly (which you would need to give them the same way... if it was not in the stack)... i.e. why not just give them the FTP log in ID and PASS in the first place? I suppose because it is less like that single user log in is less likely to get distributed. and if it did, you would know right away which user's log in was being abused...(assuming your CGI keeps a log of the first tier authentications) where as if you distribute the FTP log ins, then from a given log.. you will never be able to tell, who is abusing it. In this case I would open up the FTP access to a CHROOT virtual domain on the server that was not even on the global DNS matrix, to be accessed strictly by IP, with all PERL, PHP, and SQL processes turned off... pretty hard to abuse, other than a service attack (start uploading gigabytes of stuff...) tks Sivakatirswami On Jun 03, 2005, at 2:54 AM, Dave Cragg wrote: > Where I've had to do this before, I had the the client app load the > FTP credentials from a stack held on a web server. The stack was > obtained through a CGI which authenticated the request. In this > case, the client app itself also had a login system with ID and > password, and these login credentials were used as part of the > authentication process in the CGI. > > It wasn't completely secure, but by keeping the credentials on the > server instead of embedded in a local stack, it enabled changing > the FTP user name and password at any time. > > Dave From kray at sonsothunder.com Sat Jun 4 17:16:03 2005 From: kray at sonsothunder.com (Ken Ray) Date: Sat, 04 Jun 2005 17:16:03 -0400 Subject: A slightly disturbing problem about items In-Reply-To: <42A1FDCA.989AF72C@Club-Internet.fr> Message-ID: > Any comment ? Just "been there already"... :-) We recently had a discussion about how items were looked at in xTalk. The reason you get two different values is that in your first example, the list if items is "1,2,3,4,5," and ends in the item delimiter (,). Since there is nothing that follows the item delimiter, it is ignored, and returns 5 items. The second example gives you ",1,2,3,4,5" so there are 6 items (nothing's ignored). Standard xTalk results... (not to say it's not 'slightly disturbing' as you've stated)... Ken Ray Sons of Thunder Software Email: kray at sonsothunder.com Web Site: http://www.sonsothunder.com/ From kray at sonsothunder.com Sat Jun 4 17:18:44 2005 From: kray at sonsothunder.com (Ken Ray) Date: Sat, 04 Jun 2005 17:18:44 -0400 Subject: delete object problem In-Reply-To: Message-ID: > I have a script that deletes objects from groups, Either all objects via > repeat or single objects in reverse order. However, I'd like to delete > object an object in the middel IE element 4 of 7. (this ma vary so I cannot > use a static script. > > Is there a way for the end user to old down the delete key and then click on > a field or button within a group and have that object delete? Not AFAIK, and it would be very strange for the user to do that... better yet might be a context menu that pops up when they right-click on the object that has 'delete' option. Ken Ray Sons of Thunder Software Email: kray at sonsothunder.com Web Site: http://www.sonsothunder.com/ From see3d at writeme.com Sat Jun 4 15:29:51 2005 From: see3d at writeme.com (Dennis Brown) Date: Sat, 04 Jun 2005 15:29:51 -0400 Subject: bug In-Reply-To: <42A1EF1D.80302@sover.net> References: <42A19E7A.8040501@sover.net> <42A1EF1D.80302@sover.net> Message-ID: <819A03A3-1649-4AB7-AA9A-8DB32429916B@writeme.com> On Jun 4, 2005, at 2:12 PM, Jon wrote: > Dennis: > > You said "lots of cracks in the IDE". I'd have to agree. > I've given up on saving scripts, and now only delete/kill the > script editors. That way I'm SURE to see the error messages. Far > too often I have "saved" a script and the save did not take, with > no error window visible. Too bad window visibility is handled > correctly during a script editor kill, but not when saving a > script. It can't be that hard to do the latter correctly if the > former is correct. Jon, Sounds like you were saving the script, before Applying it. I got caught a few times on that also. I am in the habit of hitting the enter key after editing a script to apply it now. Otherwise, the script says what you edited, but it executes what was last applied before your last edits. I don't like this way of doing it, I think the IDE should ask if you want to apply before running the script again, or always apply when leaving the window focus, and having a proper unlimited undo for at least the text editing of a script -- that can't be that hard to do. I like to leave the script I am debugging/improving open with the script running so I can quickly try different things with nary a mouse click. You learn about "apply" very quickly in that case. Dennis From briany at qldlearning.com Sat Jun 4 17:30:06 2005 From: briany at qldlearning.com (Brian Yennie) Date: Sat, 4 Jun 2005 14:30:06 -0700 Subject: Trouble with HTTPS certificate (getting worse...) In-Reply-To: <60416815b93c20446df4010685722e07@mac.com> References: <79001609ca0f2337189e221b49ba3976@mac.com> <8fdcfc7ecdcd618d4c4e9e63b21e213b@mac.com> <60416815b93c20446df4010685722e07@mac.com> Message-ID: <40ef2b0836c1514b0352ae9328674096@qldlearning.com> Andre, I know very little about the subject, but I'll take a stab in case it helps. Could it be that the certificate of the site you are _contacting_ is invalid? Can you try connecting to a different site? Can your browser connect to that site without any warnings / errors? Dunno if that helps... - Brian > So Far, I've tried: > > CACert.com Root Certificate > PLT Group Test.pem > Comodo Security Services CA Root Certificate (which should expire only > in 2006) > GTE Trust Root CA Root Certificate (which also should be valid till > 2006) > > All Them return the same: > > error -Error with certificate at depth: 1 issuer = /C=ZA/ST=Western > Cape/L=Cape Town/O=Thawte Consulting cc/OU=Certification Services > Division/CN=Thawte Server CA/Email=server-certs at thawte.com subject = > /C=ZA/O=Thawte Consulting (Pty) Ltd./CN=Thawte SSL Domain CA err > 20:unable to get local issuer certificate > > Which is means nothing to me... can someone shed a light? > > Andre > > On Jun 4, 2005, at 4:53 PM, Andre Garzia wrote: > >> ARRRGHHHHH!!!!! >> >> >> it's getting worse!!!!! I tried using root.crt from CACert.com and >> nothing. Tried to use test.pem from PLT Group and nothing, always the >> same return value. my code is this: >> >> get fld 2 >> set the sslcertificates to "~/Desktop/root.crt" & cr >> post it to URL "" >> put the result & cr & it & cr & "cert:" && the sslcertificates & >> "fim" >> >> >> pretty easy ain't it? yes, for this email I removed the https url, >> but in the code it is there!!! what am I doing wrong! >> >> >> thanks >> andre >> >> >> On Jun 4, 2005, at 4:23 PM, Andre Garzia wrote: >> >>> Hi folks, >>> >>> can someone shed a clue on this error message trying to post to a >>> HTTPS secure url? >>> >>> error -Error with certificate at depth: 1 issuer = >>> /C=ZA/ST=Western Cape/L=Cape Town/O=Thawte Consulting >>> cc/OU=Certification Services Division/CN=Thawte Server >>> CA/Email=server-certs at thawte.com subject = /C=ZA/O=Thawte >>> Consulting (Pty) Ltd./CN=Thawte SSL Domain CA err 20:unable to get >>> local issuer certificate >>> >>> What the hell is happening? my certificate is old? >>> >>> folks, I need this asap, I need to post to secure urls, any clue >>> would be fine. >>> >>> I am on MacOS X 10.3.9 using Rev 2.5.1 Enterprize. >>> >>> thanks in advance for the help >>> cheers >>> andre >>> -- >>> Andre Alves Garzia ? 2004 ? BRAZIL >>> http://studio.soapdog.org >>> _______________________________________________ >>> use-revolution mailing list >>> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com >>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution >>> >>> >> -- >> Andre Alves Garzia ? 2004 ? BRAZIL >> http://studio.soapdog.org >> >> _______________________________________________ >> use-revolution mailing list >> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution >> >> > -- > Andre Alves Garzia ? 2004 ? BRAZIL > http://studio.soapdog.org > > _______________________________________________ > use-revolution mailing list > use-revolution at lists.runrev.com > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution > > From rev at armbase.com Sat Jun 4 17:37:55 2005 From: rev at armbase.com (Bob Hartley) Date: Sat, 4 Jun 2005 22:37:55 +0100 Subject: delete object problem Message-ID: On 04/06/2005 22:18:44, Ken Ray (kray at sonsothunder.com) wrote: Hi Ken > > Is there a way for the end user to old down the delete key and then click on > > a field or button within a group and have that object delete? > > Not AFAIK, and it would be very strange for the user to do that... better > yet might be a context menu that pops up when they right-click on the object > that has 'delete' option. OK thanks for the info. I suppose I can forget that one for now since it is not that crucial, however, I was also interested in context menus. Where should I start to look for info on applying these? Cheers Bob > > Ken Ray > Sons of Thunder Software > Email: kray at sonsothunder.com > Web Site: http://www.sonsothunder.com/ > > > _______________________________________________ > use-revolution mailing list > use-revolution at lists.runrev.com > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution From rev at armbase.com Sat Jun 4 17:41:20 2005 From: rev at armbase.com (Bob Hartley) Date: Sat, 4 Jun 2005 22:41:20 +0100 Subject: delete object problem Message-ID: On 04/06/2005 22:37:55, Bob Hartley (rev at armbase.com) wrote: > On 04/06/2005 22:18:44, Ken Ray (kray at sonsothunder.com) wrote: > > Hi Ken > > > > Is there a way for the end user to old down the delete key and then > click on > > > a field or button within a group and have that object delete? > > > > Not AFAIK, and it would be very strange for the user to do that... > better > > yet might be a context menu that pops up when they right-click on > the > object > > that has 'delete' option. > > OK thanks for the info. I suppose I can forget that one for now since it > is > not that crucial, however, I was also interested in context menus. > Where > should I start to look for info on applying these? > > Cheers > Bob OK I replied too quickly (Scotland game on the telly distracted me) I found some info to investigate. All the best bob > > > > Ken Ray > > Sons of Thunder Software > > Email: kray at sonsothunder.com > > Web Site: http://www.sonsothunder.com/ > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > use-revolution mailing list > > use-revolution at lists.runrev.com > > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution > _______________________________________________ > use-revolution mailing list > use-revolution at lists.runrev.com > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution From soapdog at mac.com Sat Jun 4 17:41:42 2005 From: soapdog at mac.com (Andre Garzia) Date: Sat, 4 Jun 2005 18:41:42 -0300 Subject: Trouble with HTTPS certificate (getting worse...) In-Reply-To: <40ef2b0836c1514b0352ae9328674096@qldlearning.com> References: <79001609ca0f2337189e221b49ba3976@mac.com> <8fdcfc7ecdcd618d4c4e9e63b21e213b@mac.com> <60416815b93c20446df4010685722e07@mac.com> <40ef2b0836c1514b0352ae9328674096@qldlearning.com> Message-ID: On Jun 4, 2005, at 6:30 PM, Brian Yennie wrote: > Andre, > > I know very little about the subject, but I'll take a stab in case it > helps. > Could it be that the certificate of the site you are _contacting_ is > invalid? Can you try connecting to a different site? Can your browser > connect to that site without any warnings / errors? > > Dunno if that helps... > > - Brian Brian just opened the page fine here in safari, except for the fact that I was not posting the correct data, everything worked fine. I guess the trouble is on my side... thanks andre > -- Andre Alves Garzia ? 2004 Soap Dog Studios - BRAZIL http://studio.soapdog.org From alex at tweedly.net Sat Jun 4 17:54:45 2005 From: alex at tweedly.net (Alex Tweedly) Date: Sat, 04 Jun 2005 22:54:45 +0100 Subject: bug In-Reply-To: <42A1F904.7090408@hyperactivesw.com> References: <42A19E7A.8040501@sover.net> <63B6E8B3-2369-40DA-9351-109989D88278@writeme.com> <42A1EF1D.80302@sover.net> <42A1F904.7090408@hyperactivesw.com> Message-ID: <42A22325.3040903@tweedly.net> J. Landman Gay wrote: > On 6/4/05 1:12 PM, Jon wrote: > >> I've given up on saving scripts, and now only delete/kill the script >> editors. That way I'm SURE to see the error messages. Far too often >> I have "saved" a script and the save did not take, with no error >> window visible. > > > I have never seen this, ever. > I've seen it, though not very often; I've seen things like it often - almost "all the time", but not quite. I'm not 100% sure it isn't something else I do, and I can't reliably reproduce it "on demand", so I don't have a recipe for it. A recipe for something similar (but where I know I'm "at fault") is: edit a script introduce an error hit apply - see the error box reposition the error box to be completely overlapped by the area of the script editor window fix that error introduce another error double-click the Apply button (see - my fault- should be single click !!) this will flash up the error window - and then cover it up immediately with the script editor window, so quickly that I can easily miss it. Now the script editor shows "Apply" greyed out - so it looks as though everything is OK. At this point, I can Save the stack, and the faulty script is saved off to the stack. Of course, if I then close the script editor window, I get the dialog asking if I want to "apply, cancel or don't apply" - but since I've not made any intentional change, of course I'll say "don't apply". Clearly, it's "my fault" - I double-clicked when I should have single-clicked. But it sure is annoying. [dialog boxes stay on top - why doesn't the error box just do that ?? ] Also, the way the error box works encourages you (or at least, me) into a poor behaviour. edit a script introduce an error click on "Apply" the editor window disappears, and the error window appears showing the error click on "Script" fix the error click on "Apply" the editor window disappears, revealing the error window still hanging around, looking just the same as it did before. You can't tell whether the error window which is visible applies to what you've just done, or is just a remainder from an earlier problem; so there's a tendency to close the error box, and sometimes it turns out that you were wrong and the error is current. > To save/apply a script, either click the button at the bottom of the > editor, or hit the Enter key on the keyboard while your cursor is > somewhere in the script itself. To close the script editor window, hit > the Enter key a second time. You should get any relevant error > messages after the first "apply" (Enter key) is done. > This has (for me, on WinXP) the same problem as my example above. If I hit Enter Enter, the error window flashes up but is immediately covered up by the script editor window (in the case where the error window is completely overlapped). If the system is a bit slow, then there is a slight delay while Windows brings Rev back into memory - so the error window appears only VERY briefly, if at all. > If you mean you are clicking the close box on the editor window > itself, you can do that, and you should get any compile error messages > that way too. It is more standard to use either the Apply button or > the Enter key though (and quicker.) > Another possible source of confusion is the poor (ok, appalling) behaviour of Rev when it comes to switching between apps (as mentioned by Jon). If you have an error window visible - but you use Alt-TAB to switch to another app, when you come back to Rev (with Alt-TAB again), the error window is NOT on top - it's hidden deep below other Rev windows. (BZ 2593 describes the general problem area, without mentioning this particular variation; I thought I had entered an earlier one on the same topic, but can't find it now) It drives me crazy that Rev has these windows that don't behave properly (or at least, usefully) when the Ctrl-TAB and Alt-TAB shortcuts are used. I use them all the time, but they are not useful for Rev, so nowadays I just never have any other windows open when using Rev. Big timewaster - but no worse than losing windows, and finding you have to iconify all your other windows to find a lost window. Hmmmm - iconify - why can't I do that to *all* Rev windows ? If I have a few scripts I want to edit, I have to shuffle editor window positions so I can use the mouse to bring the one I want to the front, which is a real pain. The rest of the world uses iconify to avoid needing to carefully position multiple partially overlapped windows. -- Alex Tweedly http://www.tweedly.net -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.322 / Virus Database: 267.5.2 - Release Date: 03/06/2005 From see3d at writeme.com Sat Jun 4 17:56:08 2005 From: see3d at writeme.com (Dennis Brown) Date: Sat, 04 Jun 2005 17:56:08 -0400 Subject: A slightly disturbing problem about items In-Reply-To: <42A1FDCA.989AF72C@Club-Internet.fr> References: <42A1FDCA.989AF72C@Club-Internet.fr> Message-ID: <53A6C402-C290-4E9A-9B07-C25E6B96CC98@writeme.com> I've finally determined that item delimiters come after the item. The last item of a list does not have to have a delimiter --it is optional if no more characters in the list. To keep out of trouble, and make cleanup of the last delimiter unnecessary, I always keep the trailing delimiter in my lists. Unfortunately, it is always left off when a chunk is returned --even if the last item was empty, meaning you lose one item (though an empty one). You can fix this by always appending a delimiter to a returned chunk. However, in the case where you ask for more items than the list has, it will keep the trailing delimiter. You must be vigilant to keep the number of items correct in a sparse regular array. It would take a whole tutorial just to explain the proper care and feeding of delimiters. Dennis On Jun 4, 2005, at 3:15 PM, jbv wrote: > Example 1 : > > on mouseUp > put "" into L > repeat with i=1 to 5 > put i & comma after L > end repeat > put number of items of L > end mouseUp > > the answer is "5" > > --------------- > > Example 2 : > > on mouseUp > put "" into L > repeat with i=1 to 5 > put i & comma after L > end repeat > sort items of L ascending numeric > put number of items of L > end mouseUp > > the answer is "6" > > > Any comment ? > > JB > > _______________________________________________ > use-revolution mailing list > use-revolution at lists.runrev.com > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution > From jbondy at sover.net Sat Jun 4 18:36:13 2005 From: jbondy at sover.net (Jon) Date: Sat, 04 Jun 2005 18:36:13 -0400 Subject: bug In-Reply-To: <42A1F904.7090408@hyperactivesw.com> References: <42A19E7A.8040501@sover.net> <63B6E8B3-2369-40DA-9351-109989D88278@writeme.com> <42A1EF1D.80302@sover.net> <42A1F904.7090408@hyperactivesw.com> Message-ID: <42A22CDD.1080706@sover.net> I know how to save/apply a script. The fact is that, at least on my system, if I just do a -S or a Files/Save (script and stack), error messages do NOT appear and the Apply button becomes gray, even if there are errors. If I kill the script editor, at least I get to see the error messages. I'm happy that the system works better on your system Jon J. Landman Gay wrote: > On 6/4/05 1:12 PM, Jon wrote: > >> I've given up on saving scripts, and now only delete/kill the script >> editors. That way I'm SURE to see the error messages. Far too often >> I have "saved" a script and the save did not take, with no error >> window visible. > > > I have never seen this, ever. > > To save/apply a script, either click the button at the bottom of the > editor, or hit the Enter key on the keyboard while your cursor is > somewhere in the script itself. To close the script editor window, hit > the Enter key a second time. You should get any relevant error > messages after the first "apply" (Enter key) is done. > > If you mean you are clicking the close box on the editor window > itself, you can do that, and you should get any compile error messages > that way too. It is more standard to use either the Apply button or > the Enter key though (and quicker.) > > Note that there are two kinds of errors in scripts. There are compile > errors, which the IDE will warn you about when you try to apply a > script, and there are also runtime errors, which will not be evident > until the script actually executes. Runtime errors can't be caught > during the compile process and you won't see warnings about those > until they actually happen. > > From jbondy at sover.net Sat Jun 4 18:39:25 2005 From: jbondy at sover.net (Jon) Date: Sat, 04 Jun 2005 18:39:25 -0400 Subject: bug In-Reply-To: <244222711.20050604120145@ahsoftware.net> References: <42A19E7A.8040501@sover.net> <42A1EF1D.80302@sover.net> <42A1F5A1.7000606@sover.net> <244222711.20050604120145@ahsoftware.net> Message-ID: <42A22D9D.20201@sover.net> If I just click the Apply button on my system, an error dialog may be created, but often it is hidden under hundreds of other windows. If I kill the script editor, the error dialog actually becomes visible. If I just click the Apply button on my system, the Apply button becomes gray even if the save/apply failed. I just don't trust the Apply button at all. :) Mark Wieder wrote: >Jon- > >Saturday, June 4, 2005, 11:40:33 AM, you wrote: > >Saving an open script forces an "apply and save". If you have script >errors you will get an error dialog and you have to correct the errors >before the script can be compiler ("applied") and saved. You can force >the save of a script with errors in the way you have been doing, but >it's in an indeterminate state at that point (saved as text only, not >compiled). > >Continuing from that point is risky. > >The only time I ever do that is when my eyes just won't focus anymore >and I need to shut things down without commenting out the errors. Even >then I will probably just comment out the whole script and click >Apply. And go to bed until I can think straight again. > > > From jbondy at sover.net Sat Jun 4 18:44:07 2005 From: jbondy at sover.net (Jon) Date: Sat, 04 Jun 2005 18:44:07 -0400 Subject: bug In-Reply-To: References: <42A19E7A.8040501@sover.net> <63B6E8B3-2369-40DA-9351-109989D88278@writeme.com> <42A1EF1D.80302@sover.net> <42A1F5A1.7000606@sover.net> Message-ID: <42A22EB7.1090207@sover.net> Script Editor Hide Errors remains unchecked. Stephen Barncard wrote: > At 2:40 PM -0400 6/4/05, Jon wrote: > >> Stephen: >> >> When I say "delete/kill a script editor" I mean to click on the red >> "X" icon in the upper right corner of the editor. This causes the >> editor to terminate. If > > > .. > >> Somehow going this route forces the error message window to become >> visible, > > > I don't think you have to do that... > > it is possible your checkbox in Preferences>Script Editor > > for hide errors is checked? I get the errors on top all the time with > it unchecked... > >> Windows XP. Not that I'm proud of it . This whole >> Revolution push on my part is an attempt to see if I can create cross >> platform tools so that I can move to the Mac without feeling >> helpless, and so that I can share my tools with my Mac friends. > > > And a noble reason, indeed. > >> >> :) >> >> Jon >> > _______________________________________________ > use-revolution mailing list > use-revolution at lists.runrev.com > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution > > From jbondy at sover.net Sat Jun 4 18:53:14 2005 From: jbondy at sover.net (Jon) Date: Sat, 04 Jun 2005 18:53:14 -0400 Subject: WAY too many players on the stack!` Message-ID: <42A230DA.9070806@sover.net> I suddenly realized that I have perhaps a dozen Players on my stack, all named "myPlayer", as if somehow my original Player has been accidentally cloned. What might I have accidentally done to cause this? The number of Players might be roughly the same as the number of different files I have tried to open, but I'm intending to reuse the single Player each time, not have lots of Players running or even instantiated at one time. :) Jon From bvg at mac.com Sat Jun 4 19:02:08 2005 From: bvg at mac.com (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Bj=F6rnke_von_Gierke?=) Date: Sun, 5 Jun 2005 01:02:08 +0200 Subject: WAY too many players on the stack!` In-Reply-To: <42A230DA.9070806@sover.net> References: <42A230DA.9070806@sover.net> Message-ID: <540c44ee4be6b25c14231386c43e20d3@mac.com> On Jun 05 2005, at 00:53, Jon wrote: > I suddenly realized that I have perhaps a dozen Players on my stack, > all named "myPlayer", as if somehow my original Player has been > accidentally cloned. What might I have accidentally done to cause > this? The number of Players might be roughly the same as the number > of different files I have tried to open, but I'm intending to reuse > the single Player each time, not have lots of Players running or even > instantiated at one time. > > :) > > Jon I assume that you choose "import as control" or "new referenced file"from the file menu to get a new player. If that is the case you should try to get the inspector of a player, and then set the fileName property of it ("source" in the inspector, right under the name) have fun Bjoernke -- official ChatRev page: http://chatrev.cjb.net Chat with other RunRev developers: go stack URL "http://homepage.mac.com/bvg/chatrev1.3.rev" From JimAultWins at yahoo.com Sat Jun 4 19:19:33 2005 From: JimAultWins at yahoo.com (Jim Ault) Date: Sat, 04 Jun 2005 16:19:33 -0700 Subject: A slightly disturbing problem about items In-Reply-To: <53A6C402-C290-4E9A-9B07-C25E6B96CC98@writeme.com> Message-ID: One further note, as Dennis says, ( and another suggestion/technique ) In the message box.... put last item of "my,brown,shoes" -> shoes put last item of "my,brown," -> brown put item 3 of "my,brown,shoes" -> shoes put item 3 of "my,brown," -> "" So testing to see if the last item is empty will not work as you might think. You need to test to see if the last char is the delimiter. This is especially true when you build the string using variables and the last variable is empty, yet you think of it as an item place holder eg. tHeight &","& tWidth &","& tPrice where price can be missing, thus empty. The last item will not always be the price, but item 3 will be. ----- This leads to installing your own lineFeed char at the end of strings you get/make, such as opt-t (?) on a Mac, that will not be confused with part of the actual value but still be a char in the last item. fld dataList 32.5,14.0,10.99? 36.0,18.0,? 48.0,12.5,3.99? ,,5.99? ,,? ? ..use......... put the last item of line 2 of fld dataList into myPrice Replace "?" with "" in myPrice Or put getLastItem(line 2 of fld dataList) into myPrice -- function removes the "?" and returns the last item as you think of it put setLastItem(fld dataList) into fld dataList -- adds a "?" to every line as you think it should be --this would also handle the case of 'last line of fld dataList' being 'empty' where the return is the delimiter. The last line is a real line to you, but becomes imaginary to Rev if empty. ...and now the last item and the last line always contain something. Jim Ault Las Vegas On 6/4/05 2:56 PM, "Dennis Brown" wrote: > I've finally determined that item delimiters come after the item. > The last item of a list does not have to have a delimiter --it is > optional if no more characters in the list. To keep out of trouble, > and make cleanup of the last delimiter unnecessary, I always keep the > trailing delimiter in my lists. Unfortunately, it is always left off > when a chunk is returned --even if the last item was empty, meaning > you lose one item (though an empty one). You can fix this by always > appending a delimiter to a returned chunk. However, in the case > where you ask for more items than the list has, it will keep the > trailing delimiter. You must be vigilant to keep the number of items > correct in a sparse regular array. It would take a whole tutorial > just to explain the proper care and feeding of delimiters. > > Dennis > > > On Jun 4, 2005, at 3:15 PM, jbv wrote: > >> Example 1 : >> >> on mouseUp >> put "" into L >> repeat with i=1 to 5 >> put i & comma after L >> end repeat >> put number of items of L >> end mouseUp >> >> the answer is "5" >> >> --------------- >> >> Example 2 : >> >> on mouseUp >> put "" into L >> repeat with i=1 to 5 >> put i & comma after L >> end repeat >> sort items of L ascending numeric >> put number of items of L >> end mouseUp >> >> the answer is "6" >> >> >> Any comment ? >> >> JB >> >> _______________________________________________ >> use-revolution mailing list >> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution >> > > _______________________________________________ > use-revolution mailing list > use-revolution at lists.runrev.com > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution From JimAultWins at yahoo.com Sat Jun 4 19:38:38 2005 From: JimAultWins at yahoo.com (Jim Ault) Date: Sat, 04 Jun 2005 16:38:38 -0700 Subject: A slightly disturbing problem about items In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Quick follow up note: Using a ? as a lineFeed character would also make ....the number of items ....the number of lines ..> yield the number you would want when the last item/line is empty Further, this would work no matter what you set the itemDel to be, as long as it was not ? Therefore, tab lists would be easier to access, and I would imagine table fields that were not completely filled, etc. Beyond Rev, external data sources would automatically be converted to the same number of readable lines and items. This 1-to-1 match is important in my work. (note: you will likely want to remove the ? before exporting to other programs which don't need it or expect it.) I use Applescript and Apple Events to access spreadsheet ranges from Rev and often the last column or row is empty. This sometimes causes problems, and this technique fixes that. Jim Ault Las Vegas On 6/4/05 4:19 PM, "Jim Ault" wrote: From jbondy at sover.net Sat Jun 4 19:46:17 2005 From: jbondy at sover.net (Jon) Date: Sat, 04 Jun 2005 19:46:17 -0400 Subject: WAY too many players on the stack!` In-Reply-To: <540c44ee4be6b25c14231386c43e20d3@mac.com> References: <42A230DA.9070806@sover.net> <540c44ee4be6b25c14231386c43e20d3@mac.com> Message-ID: <42A23D49.40203@sover.net> Bjoernke Actually, I clicked on the Tools menu and created the Player that way, but I only did it once. When I want to open (play) a new file (music/video), I do the following: === if the QTVersion is "0.0" then answer "Apple's QuickTime must be installed for this program to work correctly!" exit mouseUp end if answer file "Select a file" with filter "Sound Files, *.MP3, Movie Files, *.MPG" if it = empty then exit mouseUp set the fileName of player "myPlayer" to it set the looping of player "myPlayer" to true set the playselection of player "myPlayer" to false set the playrate of player "myPlayer" to 1 set the playloudness of player "myPlayer" to 100 send "mouseUp" to button "PlayButton" === PlayButton does this: === local i Set the StartValue of the scrollBar "myProgressBar" to 0 set the EndValue of the scrollBar "myProgressBar" to the duration of player "myPlayer" set the thumbPosition of the scrolLBar "myProgressBar" to the currentTime of player "myPlayer" start player "myPlayer" --- :) Jon Bj?rnke von Gierke wrote: > > On Jun 05 2005, at 00:53, Jon wrote: > >> I suddenly realized that I have perhaps a dozen Players on my stack, >> all named "myPlayer", as if somehow my original Player has been >> accidentally cloned. What might I have accidentally done to cause >> this? The number of Players might be roughly the same as the number >> of different files I have tried to open, but I'm intending to reuse >> the single Player each time, not have lots of Players running or even >> instantiated at one time. >> >> :) >> >> Jon > > > I assume that you choose "import as control" or "new referenced > file"from the file menu to get a new player. > If that is the case you should try to get the inspector of a player, > and then set the fileName property of it ("source" in the inspector, > right under the name) > > have fun > Bjoernke > From jbondy at sover.net Sat Jun 4 19:47:23 2005 From: jbondy at sover.net (Jon) Date: Sat, 04 Jun 2005 19:47:23 -0400 Subject: bug In-Reply-To: <819A03A3-1649-4AB7-AA9A-8DB32429916B@writeme.com> References: <42A19E7A.8040501@sover.net> <42A1EF1D.80302@sover.net> <819A03A3-1649-4AB7-AA9A-8DB32429916B@writeme.com> Message-ID: <42A23D8B.8010209@sover.net> I'm confused: you and someone else claimed that they hit the key to save a script, but when I hit the key, it just puts a new line into the script!!! :) Jon Dennis Brown wrote: > > On Jun 4, 2005, at 2:12 PM, Jon wrote: > >> Dennis: >> >> You said "lots of cracks in the IDE". I'd have to agree. >> I've given up on saving scripts, and now only delete/kill the script >> editors. That way I'm SURE to see the error messages. Far too >> often I have "saved" a script and the save did not take, with no >> error window visible. Too bad window visibility is handled >> correctly during a script editor kill, but not when saving a >> script. It can't be that hard to do the latter correctly if the >> former is correct. > > > Jon, > > Sounds like you were saving the script, before Applying it. I got > caught a few times on that also. I am in the habit of hitting the > enter key after editing a script to apply it now. Otherwise, the > script says what you edited, but it executes what was last applied > before your last edits. I don't like this way of doing it, I think > the IDE should ask if you want to apply before running the script > again, or always apply when leaving the window focus, and having a > proper unlimited undo for at least the text editing of a script -- > that can't be that hard to do. > > I like to leave the script I am debugging/improving open with the > script running so I can quickly try different things with nary a > mouse click. You learn about "apply" very quickly in that case. > > Dennis > _______________________________________________ > use-revolution mailing list > use-revolution at lists.runrev.com > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution > > From revdan at danshafer.com Sat Jun 4 20:06:25 2005 From: revdan at danshafer.com (Dan Shafer) Date: Sat, 4 Jun 2005 17:06:25 -0700 Subject: bug In-Reply-To: <42A19E7A.8040501@sover.net> References: <42A19E7A.8040501@sover.net> Message-ID: <2408DB41-2B44-47D5-8019-E0328B52A42D@danshafer.com> As others have said, you lost the table because it was selected and the select arrow was active when you hit the backspace key. I've long though Rev needed a preference setting to prevent this sort of accidental deletion, which can be fairly catastrophic. My testing in 2.5.1 on OS X 10.4 with your scenario reveals a couple of things. First, if the properties inspector is open and selected, pressing the delete key does not have any effect at all. The field, though it is selected, is not deleted. If, OTOH, I select the window in which the field appears and then hit the backspace key, the field is in fact deleted, but -- and this surprised me and contradicts what others have said here -- Undo did not bring the field back to life. None of the fields is salvaged from an unintentional delete via backspace or delete key by an undo operation, though all other object types from the palette behave exactly as expected (i.e., undo restores them from accidental deletion). SO while it seems like there was user error involved here (I don't believe in user error, by the way), this clear bug at least possibly prevented you from recovering cleanly. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Dan Shafer, Co-Chair RevConWest '05 June 17-18, 2005, Monterey, California http://www.altuit.com/webs/altuit/RevConWest On Jun 4, 2005, at 5:28 AM, Jon wrote: > I was editing the custom properties of a table. I wanted to delete > the most recently entered custom property, so I pressed the > key. The TABLE was deleted, not the property; and UNDO did not > bring the table back. > > :( > > Jon > _______________________________________________ > use-revolution mailing list > use-revolution at lists.runrev.com > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution > > From alex at tweedly.net Sat Jun 4 20:10:06 2005 From: alex at tweedly.net (Alex Tweedly) Date: Sun, 05 Jun 2005 01:10:06 +0100 Subject: bug In-Reply-To: <42A23D8B.8010209@sover.net> References: <42A19E7A.8040501@sover.net> <42A1EF1D.80302@sover.net> <819A03A3-1649-4AB7-AA9A-8DB32429916B@writeme.com> <42A23D8B.8010209@sover.net> Message-ID: <42A242DE.4000102@tweedly.net> Jon wrote: > I'm confused: you and someone else claimed that they hit the > key to save a script, but when I hit the key, it just puts a > new line into the script!!! > Confusing naming of keys ..... "enter" is normally, on Windows, (I believe) the keypad "enter" key, not the usual "enter/return/big-left-arrow/ ..." key I say "I believe" because I actually use a laptop, without a keypad, so for me to get "Enter" I need to use a Fn key combination (in my case, Fn/[ - marked as "enter" on the front edge of the key itself). -- Alex Tweedly http://www.tweedly.net -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.322 / Virus Database: 267.5.2 - Release Date: 03/06/2005 From ambassador at fourthworld.com Sat Jun 4 20:13:55 2005 From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin) Date: Sat, 04 Jun 2005 17:13:55 -0700 Subject: bug In-Reply-To: <42A242DE.4000102@tweedly.net> References: <42A19E7A.8040501@sover.net> <42A1EF1D.80302@sover.net> <819A03A3-1649-4AB7-AA9A-8DB32429916B@writeme.com> <42A23D8B.8010209@sover.net> <42A242DE.4000102@tweedly.net> Message-ID: <42A243C3.1020108@fourthworld.com> Alex Tweedly wrote: > Jon wrote: > >> I'm confused: you and someone else claimed that they hit the >> key to save a script, but when I hit the key, it just puts a >> new line into the script!!! >> > Confusing naming of keys ..... > > "enter" is normally, on Windows, (I believe) the keypad "enter" key, not > the usual "enter/return/big-left-arrow/ ..." key > > I say "I believe" because I actually use a laptop, without a keypad, so > for me to get "Enter" I need to use a Fn key combination (in my case, > Fn/[ - marked as "enter" on the front edge of the key itself). While the distinction might have been useful on Macs, Windows machines have been mislabeling the Return key for years (almost all Wintel keyboards label it "Enter"). That, along with PowerBooks fast outnumbering desktop Macs, make any UI based on the distinction a risky proposition. I once loved doing that, but have had to design around it in recent years, giving the same behaviors to both the true Enter and mislabeled Return keys. -- Richard Gaskin Fourth World Media Corporation __________________________________________________ Rev tools and more: http://www.fourthworld.com/rev From alex at tweedly.net Sat Jun 4 20:23:54 2005 From: alex at tweedly.net (Alex Tweedly) Date: Sun, 05 Jun 2005 01:23:54 +0100 Subject: bug In-Reply-To: <42A22CDD.1080706@sover.net> References: <42A19E7A.8040501@sover.net> <63B6E8B3-2369-40DA-9351-109989D88278@writeme.com> <42A1EF1D.80302@sover.net> <42A1F904.7090408@hyperactivesw.com> <42A22CDD.1080706@sover.net> Message-ID: <42A2461A.3010704@tweedly.net> Jon wrote: > I know how to save/apply a script. The fact is that, at least on my > system, if I just do a -S or a Files/Save (script and stack), > error messages do NOT appear and the Apply button becomes gray, even > if there are errors. If I kill the script editor, at least I get to > see the error messages. > Jon - I think that is a large part of why you're seeing this problem so often. ctrl-S does a "Save stack" It does NOT Apply any outstanding edits that you may have - and therefore does not check for script errors. IMHO that's a stupid thing for it to do - but that's what it does. And once you've done that "save stack", you have erroneous scripts saved in the stack file, waiting to bite you later. Usual thing to do is either click Apply (if you are a mouse user) type the "enter" key (which may be a Fn combination, or a keypad enter) to apply without closing editor window save/apply script - on Windows, that's ctrl-return to close script editor window and apply I think there are still other problems - but remembering that ctrl-S doesn't, in Rev, do what any Windows user would expect it to do will avoid 95% of what you're seeing. P.S. it only took me about two weeks to stop myself from hitting ctrl-S frequently :-) :-) > I'm happy that the system works better on your system > > Jon > > > J. Landman Gay wrote: > >> On 6/4/05 1:12 PM, Jon wrote: >> >>> I've given up on saving scripts, and now only delete/kill the script >>> editors. That way I'm SURE to see the error messages. Far too >>> often I have "saved" a script and the save did not take, with no >>> error window visible. >> >> >> >> I have never seen this, ever. >> >> To save/apply a script, either click the button at the bottom of the >> editor, or hit the Enter key on the keyboard while your cursor is >> somewhere in the script itself. To close the script editor window, >> hit the Enter key a second time. You should get any relevant error >> messages after the first "apply" (Enter key) is done. >> >> If you mean you are clicking the close box on the editor window >> itself, you can do that, and you should get any compile error >> messages that way too. It is more standard to use either the Apply >> button or the Enter key though (and quicker.) >> >> Note that there are two kinds of errors in scripts. There are compile >> errors, which the IDE will warn you about when you try to apply a >> script, and there are also runtime errors, which will not be evident >> until the script actually executes. Runtime errors can't be caught >> during the compile process and you won't see warnings about those >> until they actually happen. >> >> > _______________________________________________ > use-revolution mailing list > use-revolution at lists.runrev.com > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution > > -- Alex Tweedly http://www.tweedly.net -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.322 / Virus Database: 267.5.2 - Release Date: 03/06/2005 From revdan at danshafer.com Sat Jun 4 20:41:00 2005 From: revdan at danshafer.com (Dan Shafer) Date: Sat, 4 Jun 2005 17:41:00 -0700 Subject: OT: but interesting to Mac users In-Reply-To: <42A1988E.4020106@tweedly.net> References: <42A1988E.4020106@tweedly.net> Message-ID: <33F46FBA-BB63-4B1C-A398-8D1CC9C7B6B9@danshafer.com> Since this is so far OT, I decided not to reply in detail here. If you want to know what I think (and frankly I can't think of a lot of reasons you should), check out my blog: http://www.eclecticity.com/.3c63d717 ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Dan Shafer, Co-Chair RevConWest '05 June 17-18, 2005, Monterey, California http://www.altuit.com/webs/altuit/RevConWest On Jun 4, 2005, at 5:03 AM, Alex Tweedly wrote: > > According to a story on slashdot, > > /"According to C|Net, Apple has officially decided to drop IBM > 2100-1006_3-5731398.html?tag=nefd.lede>, and will use Intel > processors starting in their '06 line of systems. This change was > rumored last month 05/05/23/1052218.shtml?tid=118>. The announcement is expected > Monday at Apple's Worldwide Developer Conference in San Francisco, > at which Chief Executive Steve Jobs is giving the keynote speech."/ > From the article: /"Apple successfully navigated a switch in the > 1990s from Motorola's 680x0 line of processors to the Power line > jointly made by Motorola and IBM. That switch also required > software to be revamped to take advantage of the new processors' > performance, but emulation software permitted older programs to run > on the new machines."/ > > -- > Alex Tweedly http://www.tweedly.net > > No virus found in this outgoing message. > Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. > Version: 7.0.322 / Virus Database: 267.5.2 - Release Date: 03/06/2005 > _______________________________________________ > use-revolution mailing list > use-revolution at lists.runrev.com > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution > From mwieder at ahsoftware.net Sat Jun 4 20:44:02 2005 From: mwieder at ahsoftware.net (Mark Wieder) Date: Sat, 4 Jun 2005 17:44:02 -0700 Subject: bug In-Reply-To: <42A2461A.3010704@tweedly.net> References: <42A19E7A.8040501@sover.net> <42A1EF1D.80302@sover.net> <42A1F904.7090408@hyperactivesw.com> <42A22CDD.1080706@sover.net> <42A2461A.3010704@tweedly.net> Message-ID: <17924760573.20050604174402@ahsoftware.net> Alex- Saturday, June 4, 2005, 5:23:54 PM, you wrote: AT> ctrl-S does a "Save stack" AT> It does NOT Apply any outstanding edits that you may have - and AT> therefore does not check for script errors. Yes it does. Control-S does an "apply and save". Unfortunately, it does this all in one swell foop - it applies the changes, brings up the error dialog, brings the script editor back up, and saves the stack anyway. If you don't notice that there's an error dialog somewhere on the screen (as in the case where it's hidden behind the script editor) then there's no indication that you've saved errors in the script. It would be rather nice if the error dialog appeared in the list of open windows. And if the script editor didn't get brought in front of the error dialog. And if save didn't save errors. Oh, all right - I'll bugzilla this one. -- -Mark Wieder mwieder at ahsoftware.net From mwieder at ahsoftware.net Sat Jun 4 20:48:59 2005 From: mwieder at ahsoftware.net (Mark Wieder) Date: Sat, 4 Jun 2005 17:48:59 -0700 Subject: bug In-Reply-To: <42A243C3.1020108@fourthworld.com> References: <42A19E7A.8040501@sover.net> <42A1EF1D.80302@sover.net> <42A23D8B.8010209@sover.net> <42A242DE.4000102@tweedly.net> <42A243C3.1020108@fourthworld.com> Message-ID: <12925057500.20050604174859@ahsoftware.net> Richard- Saturday, June 4, 2005, 5:13:55 PM, you wrote: RG> While the distinction might have been useful on Macs, Windows machines RG> have been mislabeling the Return key for years (almost all Wintel That's OK - they've been mislabeling the "Start" button as well. I can't imagine how clicking the a button labeled "Start" in order to shut the machine down got past the UI committee... -- -Mark Wieder mwieder at ahsoftware.net From revdan at danshafer.com Sat Jun 4 20:50:17 2005 From: revdan at danshafer.com (Dan Shafer) Date: Sat, 4 Jun 2005 17:50:17 -0700 Subject: [OPINION] Re: Windows Absolute Control In-Reply-To: <429FC81A.9030304@chipp.com> References: <20050602183713.9A472930386@mail.runrev.com> <001401c567ba$d2d612b0$5602a8c0@athalon> <429FC81A.9030304@chipp.com> Message-ID: <6E57ACFA-A637-4BB3-98C1-F30E90739133@danshafer.com> Extreme, I confess, but a programmer working on a project I'm supervising just lost three days of work because he had exceeded the number of activations Microsoft allowed him on his WinXP Pro license. I think the number was 32. But he'd had to reinstall due to hard crashes, a couple of disk drive swaps....and I think he was running multiple instances of the OS on a couple of partitions out of paranoia. But as Chipp has pointed out recently, Apple's OS upgrades frequently involve what I like to call "catastrophic improvements" in the software that makes life hard. Bottom line: this stuff isn't easy and it should be. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Dan Shafer, Co-Chair RevConWest '05 June 17-18, 2005, Monterey, California http://www.altuit.com/webs/altuit/RevConWest On Jun 2, 2005, at 8:01 PM, Chipp Walters wrote: > Stephen King wrote: > >> As a windows user I have never had any problem with reactivation >> (and am not personally aware of anyone who has had a problem). I >> have upgraded most parts of my PCs (both have separate licensed >> copies of XP) and typically clear and reinstall every year or two >> anyway to clear out the garbage. >> At no time has activation caused me any difficulties. It all seems >> to happen seamlessly. >> Cheers >> Steve >> > > Wow. You are lucky. I've had tons of problems with reactivation. On > one computer, I replaced the motherboard and the MS activation team > couldn't get me activated no matter how many hours and hours I > spent on the phone with them, escalating up the chain of command. I > ended up *actually* having to buy a 2nd copy of WinXP (if you can > believe it!) to solve the problem. Truly they've still got serious > issues with activation. Funny thing is, you can find bootleg copies > of XP, so the pirates must be happy, it just the honest customers > who are screwed. > > -Chipp > > > -- > No virus found in this outgoing message. > Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. > Version: 7.0.322 / Virus Database: 267.4.1 - Release Date: 6/2/2005 > > _______________________________________________ > use-revolution mailing list > use-revolution at lists.runrev.com > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution > > From mwieder at ahsoftware.net Sat Jun 4 20:53:34 2005 From: mwieder at ahsoftware.net (Mark Wieder) Date: Sat, 4 Jun 2005 17:53:34 -0700 Subject: bug In-Reply-To: <42A22D9D.20201@sover.net> References: <42A19E7A.8040501@sover.net> <42A1EF1D.80302@sover.net> <42A1F5A1.7000606@sover.net> <244222711.20050604120145@ahsoftware.net> <42A22D9D.20201@sover.net> Message-ID: <15125332155.20050604175334@ahsoftware.net> Jon- Saturday, June 4, 2005, 3:39:25 PM, you wrote: J> If I just click the Apply button on my system, an error dialog may be J> created, but often it is hidden under hundreds of other windows. If I J> kill the script editor, the error dialog actually becomes visible. Hundreds? What in the world are you doing? Given my screen real estate, I don't even think I *can* have hundreds of windows open. -- -Mark Wieder mwieder at ahsoftware.net From brentj84062 at earthlink.net Sat Jun 4 21:09:19 2005 From: brentj84062 at earthlink.net (Brent Anderson) Date: Sat, 4 Jun 2005 19:09:19 -0600 Subject: File Read/Write in a built app Message-ID: Hello. I'm having trouble getting my built stack to read and write files. It works fine in the regular development environment, but it won't work when built. Am I missing some setting, or is it designed to do this? Thanks, Brent Anderson From kray at sonsothunder.com Sat Jun 4 21:24:15 2005 From: kray at sonsothunder.com (Ken Ray) Date: Sat, 04 Jun 2005 21:24:15 -0400 Subject: File Read/Write in a built app In-Reply-To: Message-ID: > I'm having trouble getting my built stack to read and write files. It > works fine in the regular development environment, but it won't work > when built. Am I missing some setting, or is it designed to do this? It probably has to do with relative paths; when working in the Rev IDE, the path is relative to the Rev application. When you make a standalone, the path is relative to the standalone application. BTW: What are you using to read/write files? open/read/write/close or url("file:")? Ken Ray Sons of Thunder Software Email: kray at sonsothunder.com Web Site: http://www.sonsothunder.com/ From see3d at writeme.com Sat Jun 4 21:28:04 2005 From: see3d at writeme.com (Dennis Brown) Date: Sat, 04 Jun 2005 21:28:04 -0400 Subject: bug In-Reply-To: <2408DB41-2B44-47D5-8019-E0328B52A42D@danshafer.com> References: <42A19E7A.8040501@sover.net> <2408DB41-2B44-47D5-8019-E0328B52A42D@danshafer.com> Message-ID: <9E82B7A4-9F6E-453B-B539-F7FBE04E07A4@writeme.com> It is because of issues like this that I have instituted several habits to protect myself from the IDE. 1. After I create a field or group etc. I select the can't delete option. 2. After I initially place an object, I select the lock size and position option. 3. Before trying a major edit I save the stack as a "Revert" point 4. When editing a script I hit "apply" often 5. When satisfied that I want to keep the changes so far, I do 3 again. I have also noticed that often when I apply, I get an error message that makes no sense to me. When I hit the Script button, it hilights a portion of a comment line (I put in a lot of comments). After scratching my head a few times I try applying again --this time it takes it. WHen I run my script, there are no problems with it. Dennis On Jun 4, 2005, at 8:06 PM, Dan Shafer wrote: > As others have said, you lost the table because it was selected and > the select arrow was active when you hit the backspace key. > > I've long though Rev needed a preference setting to prevent this > sort of accidental deletion, which can be fairly catastrophic. My > testing in 2.5.1 on OS X 10.4 with your scenario reveals a couple > of things. > > First, if the properties inspector is open and selected, pressing > the delete key does not have any effect at all. The field, though > it is selected, is not deleted. If, OTOH, I select the window in > which the field appears and then hit the backspace key, the field > is in fact deleted, but -- and this surprised me and contradicts > what others have said here -- Undo did not bring the field back to > life. > > None of the fields is salvaged from an unintentional delete via > backspace or delete key by an undo operation, though all other > object types from the palette behave exactly as expected (i.e., > undo restores them from accidental deletion). > > SO while it seems like there was user error involved here (I don't > believe in user error, by the way), this clear bug at least > possibly prevented you from recovering cleanly. > > > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ > Dan Shafer, Co-Chair > RevConWest '05 > June 17-18, 2005, Monterey, California > http://www.altuit.com/webs/altuit/RevConWest > > On Jun 4, 2005, at 5:28 AM, Jon wrote: > > >> I was editing the custom properties of a table. I wanted to >> delete the most recently entered custom property, so I pressed the >> key. The TABLE was deleted, not the property; and UNDO did >> not bring the table back. >> >> :( >> >> Jon >> _______________________________________________ >> use-revolution mailing list >> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution >> >> >> > > _______________________________________________ > use-revolution mailing list > use-revolution at lists.runrev.com > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution > From jbondy at sover.net Sat Jun 4 21:45:20 2005 From: jbondy at sover.net (Jon) Date: Sat, 04 Jun 2005 21:45:20 -0400 Subject: bug In-Reply-To: <15125332155.20050604175334@ahsoftware.net> References: <42A19E7A.8040501@sover.net> <42A1EF1D.80302@sover.net> <42A1F5A1.7000606@sover.net> <244222711.20050604120145@ahsoftware.net> <42A22D9D.20201@sover.net> <15125332155.20050604175334@ahsoftware.net> Message-ID: <42A25930.6070109@sover.net> OK. Blush. Guilty. Perhaps only a dozen. I was over-wrought.... :) Mark Wieder wrote: >Jon- > >Saturday, June 4, 2005, 3:39:25 PM, you wrote: > >J> If I just click the Apply button on my system, an error dialog may be >J> created, but often it is hidden under hundreds of other windows. If I >J> kill the script editor, the error dialog actually becomes visible. > >Hundreds? What in the world are you doing? > >Given my screen real estate, I don't even think I *can* have hundreds >of windows open. > > > From jbondy at sover.net Sat Jun 4 21:47:28 2005 From: jbondy at sover.net (Jon) Date: Sat, 04 Jun 2005 21:47:28 -0400 Subject: bug In-Reply-To: <9E82B7A4-9F6E-453B-B539-F7FBE04E07A4@writeme.com> References: <42A19E7A.8040501@sover.net> <2408DB41-2B44-47D5-8019-E0328B52A42D@danshafer.com> <9E82B7A4-9F6E-453B-B539-F7FBE04E07A4@writeme.com> Message-ID: <42A259B0.4010609@sover.net> Protecting yourself from the IDE. Great. Sigh. Dennis Brown wrote: > It is because of issues like this that I have instituted several > habits to protect myself from the IDE. > > 1. After I create a field or group etc. I select the can't delete > option. > 2. After I initially place an object, I select the lock size and > position option. > 3. Before trying a major edit I save the stack as a "Revert" point > 4. When editing a script I hit "apply" often > 5. When satisfied that I want to keep the changes so far, I do 3 again. > > I have also noticed that often when I apply, I get an error message > that makes no sense to me. When I hit the Script button, it hilights > a portion of a comment line (I put in a lot of comments). After > scratching my head a few times I try applying again --this time it > takes it. WHen I run my script, there are no problems with it. > > Dennis > > On Jun 4, 2005, at 8:06 PM, Dan Shafer wrote: > >> As others have said, you lost the table because it was selected and >> the select arrow was active when you hit the backspace key. >> >> I've long though Rev needed a preference setting to prevent this >> sort of accidental deletion, which can be fairly catastrophic. My >> testing in 2.5.1 on OS X 10.4 with your scenario reveals a couple of >> things. >> >> First, if the properties inspector is open and selected, pressing >> the delete key does not have any effect at all. The field, though it >> is selected, is not deleted. If, OTOH, I select the window in which >> the field appears and then hit the backspace key, the field is in >> fact deleted, but -- and this surprised me and contradicts what >> others have said here -- Undo did not bring the field back to life. >> >> None of the fields is salvaged from an unintentional delete via >> backspace or delete key by an undo operation, though all other >> object types from the palette behave exactly as expected (i.e., undo >> restores them from accidental deletion). >> >> SO while it seems like there was user error involved here (I don't >> believe in user error, by the way), this clear bug at least possibly >> prevented you from recovering cleanly. >> >> >> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ >> Dan Shafer, Co-Chair >> RevConWest '05 >> June 17-18, 2005, Monterey, California >> http://www.altuit.com/webs/altuit/RevConWest >> >> On Jun 4, 2005, at 5:28 AM, Jon wrote: >> >> >>> I was editing the custom properties of a table. I wanted to delete >>> the most recently entered custom property, so I pressed the >>> key. The TABLE was deleted, not the property; and UNDO did not >>> bring the table back. >>> >>> :( >>> >>> Jon >>> _______________________________________________ >>> use-revolution mailing list >>> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com >>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution >>> >>> >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> use-revolution mailing list >> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution >> > > _______________________________________________ > use-revolution mailing list > use-revolution at lists.runrev.com > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution > > From jbondy at sover.net Sat Jun 4 21:55:39 2005 From: jbondy at sover.net (Jon) Date: Sat, 04 Jun 2005 21:55:39 -0400 Subject: bug In-Reply-To: <819A03A3-1649-4AB7-AA9A-8DB32429916B@writeme.com> References: <42A19E7A.8040501@sover.net> <42A1EF1D.80302@sover.net> <819A03A3-1649-4AB7-AA9A-8DB32429916B@writeme.com> Message-ID: <42A25B9B.3010307@sover.net> Dennis: "I think the IDE should ask if you want to apply before running the script again, or always apply when leaving the window focus" I agree totally. "I like to leave the script I am debugging/improving open with the script running so I can quickly try different things with nary a mouse click. You learn about "apply" very quickly in that case. " I gave up on this when the IDE started to spontaneously just disappear when I tried to click the Files menu. I HAVE to save to disk, because I don't trust the IDE as far as I can throw it. Sigh. Jon Dennis Brown wrote: > > On Jun 4, 2005, at 2:12 PM, Jon wrote: > >> Dennis: >> >> You said "lots of cracks in the IDE". I'd have to agree. >> I've given up on saving scripts, and now only delete/kill the script >> editors. That way I'm SURE to see the error messages. Far too >> often I have "saved" a script and the save did not take, with no >> error window visible. Too bad window visibility is handled >> correctly during a script editor kill, but not when saving a >> script. It can't be that hard to do the latter correctly if the >> former is correct. > > > Jon, > > Sounds like you were saving the script, before Applying it. I got > caught a few times on that also. I am in the habit of hitting the > enter key after editing a script to apply it now. Otherwise, the > script says what you edited, but it executes what was last applied > before your last edits. I don't like this way of doing it, I think > the IDE should ask if you want to apply before running the script > again, or always apply when leaving the window focus, and having a > proper unlimited undo for at least the text editing of a script -- > that can't be that hard to do. > > I like to leave the script I am debugging/improving open with the > script running so I can quickly try different things with nary a > mouse click. You learn about "apply" very quickly in that case. > > Dennis > _______________________________________________ > use-revolution mailing list > use-revolution at lists.runrev.com > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution > > From see3d at writeme.com Sat Jun 4 22:33:43 2005 From: see3d at writeme.com (Dennis Brown) Date: Sat, 04 Jun 2005 22:33:43 -0400 Subject: bug In-Reply-To: <42A25B9B.3010307@sover.net> References: <42A19E7A.8040501@sover.net> <42A1EF1D.80302@sover.net> <42A25B9B.3010307@sover.net> Message-ID: <62467265-2835-48F0-BA7E-F3B9E4B9A43E@writeme.com> I'll give you another one. Ten minutes ago I made a new group, then I made a group of this group plus a table field I have had around for weeks. As soon as I hit the group button, the table field disappeared. I looked all over for it... no dice. I looked in the app browser... totally gone (my new group was there though. Only thing to do was revert. Since I recalled this happening to me before, I decided I could live without the extra group and put in a few more lines of code instead. The IDE bites me every hour or so since I began working with it regularly a couple of months ago --and I am just doing simple things (I don't know how to do the really complicated stuff that I might expect has less use and testing). It just does not seem right to bite the hand that feeds you. I hope Kevin's promise of an improved IDE soon will come true. I hate getting poked in the eye several times a day. Dennis On Jun 4, 2005, at 9:55 PM, Jon wrote: > Dennis: > > "I think the IDE should ask if you want to apply before running > the script again, or always apply when leaving the window focus" > > I agree totally. > > "I like to leave the script I am debugging/improving open with the > script running so I can quickly try different things with nary a > mouse click. You learn about "apply" very quickly in that case. " > > I gave up on this when the IDE started to spontaneously just > disappear when I tried to click the Files menu. I HAVE to save to > disk, because I don't trust the IDE as far as I can throw it. > > Sigh. > > Jon > > > > Dennis Brown wrote: > > >> >> On Jun 4, 2005, at 2:12 PM, Jon wrote: >> >> >>> Dennis: >>> >>> You said "lots of cracks in the IDE". I'd have to agree. >>> I've given up on saving scripts, and now only delete/kill the >>> script editors. That way I'm SURE to see the error messages. >>> Far too often I have "saved" a script and the save did not take, >>> with no error window visible. Too bad window visibility is >>> handled correctly during a script editor kill, but not when >>> saving a script. It can't be that hard to do the latter >>> correctly if the former is correct. >>> >> >> >> Jon, >> >> Sounds like you were saving the script, before Applying it. I >> got caught a few times on that also. I am in the habit of >> hitting the enter key after editing a script to apply it now. >> Otherwise, the script says what you edited, but it executes what >> was last applied before your last edits. I don't like this way >> of doing it, I think the IDE should ask if you want to apply >> before running the script again, or always apply when leaving the >> window focus, and having a proper unlimited undo for at least the >> text editing of a script -- that can't be that hard to do. >> >> I like to leave the script I am debugging/improving open with the >> script running so I can quickly try different things with nary a >> mouse click. You learn about "apply" very quickly in that case. >> >> Dennis >> _______________________________________________ >> use-revolution mailing list >> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution >> >> >> > _______________________________________________ > use-revolution mailing list > use-revolution at lists.runrev.com > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution > From revdan at danshafer.com Sat Jun 4 22:44:36 2005 From: revdan at danshafer.com (Dan Shafer) Date: Sat, 4 Jun 2005 19:44:36 -0700 Subject: bug In-Reply-To: <9E82B7A4-9F6E-453B-B539-F7FBE04E07A4@writeme.com> References: <42A19E7A.8040501@sover.net> <2408DB41-2B44-47D5-8019-E0328B52A42D@danshafer.com> <9E82B7A4-9F6E-453B-B539-F7FBE04E07A4@writeme.com> Message-ID: Dennis.... ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ On Jun 4, 2005, at 6:28 PM, Dennis Brown wrote: > 3. Before trying a major edit I save the stack as a "Revert" point > I use altArchive from Altuit (Chipp Walters' company) religiously. It archives the current version of the stack silently and invisibly. It's saved my butt so many times I lost count. Dan Shafer, Co-Chair RevConWest '05 June 17-18, 2005, Monterey, California http://www.altuit.com/webs/altuit/RevConWest From revdan at danshafer.com Sat Jun 4 22:47:32 2005 From: revdan at danshafer.com (Dan Shafer) Date: Sat, 4 Jun 2005 19:47:32 -0700 Subject: File Read/Write in a built app In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <6E3FA1C5-C700-4AAD-B112-C4B3FBC8C55B@danshafer.com> Could be a few things. 1. File pathing issues. This is tricky when you build Mac OS X standalones because the app is in a bundle and when you ask Rev to give you the path to the app, it goes to the bundle and digs down. 2. Maybe you're trying to save data to a file that is a Rev stack? Won't work in a standalone if the Rev stack is the mainstack. 3. COuld be file permissions issue, esp on OS X or *nix. 4. If you're delivering as a Rev stack using the Dreamcard Player there are other issues, as I recall. So if you could be a bit more specific, we may be able to help you sort this out. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Dan Shafer, Co-Chair RevConWest '05 June 17-18, 2005, Monterey, California http://www.altuit.com/webs/altuit/RevConWest On Jun 4, 2005, at 6:09 PM, Brent Anderson wrote: > Hello. > > I'm having trouble getting my built stack to read and write files. > It works fine in the regular development environment, but it won't > work when built. Am I missing some setting, or is it designed to do > this? > > Thanks, > Brent Anderson > _______________________________________________ > use-revolution mailing list > use-revolution at lists.runrev.com > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution > > From jacque at hyperactivesw.com Sat Jun 4 22:59:15 2005 From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay) Date: Sat, 04 Jun 2005 21:59:15 -0500 Subject: bug In-Reply-To: <12925057500.20050604174859@ahsoftware.net> References: <42A19E7A.8040501@sover.net> <42A1EF1D.80302@sover.net> <42A23D8B.8010209@sover.net> <42A242DE.4000102@tweedly.net> <42A243C3.1020108@fourthworld.com> <12925057500.20050604174859@ahsoftware.net> Message-ID: <42A26A83.1010103@hyperactivesw.com> On 6/4/05 7:48 PM, Mark Wieder wrote: > Richard- > > Saturday, June 4, 2005, 5:13:55 PM, you wrote: > > RG> While the distinction might have been useful on Macs, Windows machines > RG> have been mislabeling the Return key for years (almost all Wintel > > That's OK - they've been mislabeling the "Start" button as well. I > can't imagine how clicking the a button labeled "Start" in order to > shut the machine down got past the UI committee... > It means "start quitting". :) -- Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com From rcozens at pon.net Sat Jun 4 22:44:29 2005 From: rcozens at pon.net (Rob Cozens) Date: Sat, 04 Jun 2005 19:44:29 -0700 Subject: A slightly disturbing problem about items In-Reply-To: References: <42A1FDCA.989AF72C@Club-Internet.fr> Message-ID: <6.2.1.2.1.20050604193352.01eed178@pop3.pon.net> Ken, et al, >The >reason you get two different values is that in your first example, the list >if items is "1,2,3,4,5," and ends in the item delimiter (,). Since there is >nothing that follows the item delimiter, it is ignored, and returns 5 items. >The second example gives you ",1,2,3,4,5" so there are 6 items (nothing's >ignored). From my perspective, the focus of JB's issue is not the presence or absence of a terminating comma, but if (the number of items of "1,2,3,4,5,") is 5, why does (sort items of "1,2,3,4,5," ascending numeric) sort 6 values instead of 5? It appears the sort command's definition of an item is different than the "number of items of" syntax. Comments? Rob Cozens, Staff Conservator Mendonoma Marine Life Conservancy "It is contrary to human welfare to contribute in any way... to the degradation of the sea's capacity to support life." -- Walter Hickel, U. S. Secretary of the Interior, 1971 in "From Abundance to Scarcity" by Michael L. Weber From higginsta at mac.com Sun Jun 5 00:25:31 2005 From: higginsta at mac.com (Todd Higgins) Date: Sun, 5 Jun 2005 00:25:31 -0400 Subject: running rev cgi on Mac OS X Server In-Reply-To: References: <96B2D94D-F8D8-4ACD-BAFD-08C60971BF13@mac.com> Message-ID: <0F9F9C95-3B5D-4C9B-AC58-6DBFE4D1157B@mac.com> Thanks Andre, I will take a look at it. Is this the same libCGI that has a sourceforge website or a different one? I would love to meet you and the other Revvers, but I will not be able to make it out this year. (To many commitments to close together) Someone needs to work on a Revcon East : ) Regards, Todd On Jun 4, 2005, at 2:14 PM, Andre Garzia wrote: > > On Jun 4, 2005, at 1:23 PM, Todd Higgins wrote: > > >> Thanks BvG, I could swear that I tried the link from the tutorial >> last night and all I got was a 403 Forbidden page. It was the >> engine, everything is working now. >> >> Todd >> >> > > Todd, > > take a look into libCGI is a real timesaver. Also if you happen to > be at RevConWest would be fun to see you there in the CGI track. > > Cheers > andre > > > > > > >> >> > -- > Andre Alves Garzia ? 2004 ? BRAZIL > http://studio.soapdog.org > > _______________________________________________ > use-revolution mailing list > use-revolution at lists.runrev.com > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution > From 3mcgrath at adelphia.net Sun Jun 5 00:48:40 2005 From: 3mcgrath at adelphia.net (Thomas McGrath III) Date: Sun, 5 Jun 2005 00:48:40 -0400 Subject: running rev cgi on Mac OS X Server In-Reply-To: <0F9F9C95-3B5D-4C9B-AC58-6DBFE4D1157B@mac.com> References: <96B2D94D-F8D8-4ACD-BAFD-08C60971BF13@mac.com> <0F9F9C95-3B5D-4C9B-AC58-6DBFE4D1157B@mac.com> Message-ID: <380fe6a94b8e1740d009363965a4d659@adelphia.net> I agree. When is it? and Where? Tom On Jun 5, 2005, at 12:25 AM, Todd Higgins wrote: > > I would love to meet you and the other Revvers, but I will not be able > to make it out this year. (To many commitments to close together) > Someone needs to work on a Revcon East : ) Thomas J McGrath III 3mcgrath at adelphia.net 412-831-3094 220 Drake Road Bethel Park, PA 15102 <*)) >=< "Life should NOT be a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in an attractive and well preserved body, but rather to skid in sideways - a Cigar in one hand - a large steak in the other - your body thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and screaming - WOO HOO! What a Ride!" From tominjapan at excite.com Sun Jun 5 01:26:29 2005 From: tominjapan at excite.com (Thomas McCarthy) Date: Sun, 5 Jun 2005 01:26:29 -0400 (EDT) Subject: running rev cgi on Mac OS 8.6 Personal web server? Message-ID: <20050605052629.62BFEB6B4@xprdmailfe14.nwk.excite.com> I've got an old beige 233 mac. I've got a fiber optic connection (which I pay for off or on!) I've got a bunch of stacks I want to share with other Latin teachers... Wouldn't it be very possible to clean up the old beige, make a massive folder, put in all my stacks and the rev cgi engine in there, start up personal web server and let it all run from there? I would need to note the ip address, right and share that with others? anything else to consider? tom--who is very excited about this. _______________________________________________ Join Excite! - http://www.excite.com The most personalized portal on the Web! From jperryl at ecs.fullerton.edu Sun Jun 5 01:49:32 2005 From: jperryl at ecs.fullerton.edu (Judy Perry) Date: Sat, 4 Jun 2005 22:49:32 -0700 (PDT) Subject: OT: but interesting to Mac users In-Reply-To: <33F46FBA-BB63-4B1C-A398-8D1CC9C7B6B9@danshafer.com> Message-ID: Thanks, Dan, ...'cuz I was beginning to think I was somewhere in crazyland. I mean, can you _imagine_ a red-hot intel chip in an aluminum laptop case? Medieval 'chafours' with sleek, modern, industrial design. ;-) Man, I hope that you're right. (see -- we can agree!) Besides, so IBM's not been especially supportive, but, hasn't it been Motorolla that's either been wildly inattentive or, when attentive, had a few too many burned cpus on the cookie sheet? Judy On Sat, 4 Jun 2005, Dan Shafer wrote: > Since this is so far OT, I decided not to reply in detail here. If > you want to know what I think (and frankly I can't think of a lot of > reasons you should), check out my blog: > > http://www.eclecticity.com/.3c63d717 > From mwieder at ahsoftware.net Sun Jun 5 01:51:43 2005 From: mwieder at ahsoftware.net (Mark Wieder) Date: Sat, 4 Jun 2005 22:51:43 -0700 Subject: bug In-Reply-To: <17924760573.20050604174402@ahsoftware.net> References: <42A19E7A.8040501@sover.net> <42A1EF1D.80302@sover.net> <42A1F904.7090408@hyperactivesw.com> <42A22CDD.1080706@sover.net> <17924760573.20050604174402@ahsoftware.net> Message-ID: <18143220938.20050604225143@ahsoftware.net> Mark- Saturday, June 4, 2005, 5:44:02 PM, you wrote: MW> Oh, all right - I'll bugzilla this one. Bugzilla #2868, if anyone cares to vote. -- -Mark Wieder mwieder at ahsoftware.net From mwieder at ahsoftware.net Sun Jun 5 01:55:33 2005 From: mwieder at ahsoftware.net (Mark Wieder) Date: Sat, 4 Jun 2005 22:55:33 -0700 Subject: bug In-Reply-To: <9E82B7A4-9F6E-453B-B539-F7FBE04E07A4@writeme.com> References: <42A19E7A.8040501@sover.net> <2408DB41-2B44-47D5-8019-E0328B52A42D@danshafer.com> <9E82B7A4-9F6E-453B-B539-F7FBE04E07A4@writeme.com> Message-ID: <7043451039.20050604225533@ahsoftware.net> Dennis- Saturday, June 4, 2005, 6:28:04 PM, you wrote: DB> I have also noticed that often when I apply, I get an error message DB> that makes no sense to me. When I hit the Script button, it hilights DB> a portion of a comment line (I put in a lot of comments). After DB> scratching my head a few times I try applying again --this time it DB> takes it. WHen I run my script, there are no problems with it. Yep - I would swear that one's been bugzilla'd. -- -Mark Wieder mwieder at ahsoftware.net From mwieder at ahsoftware.net Sun Jun 5 01:56:40 2005 From: mwieder at ahsoftware.net (Mark Wieder) Date: Sat, 4 Jun 2005 22:56:40 -0700 Subject: bug In-Reply-To: <42A259B0.4010609@sover.net> References: <42A19E7A.8040501@sover.net> <2408DB41-2B44-47D5-8019-E0328B52A42D@danshafer.com> <42A259B0.4010609@sover.net> Message-ID: <17643517725.20050604225640@ahsoftware.net> Jon- Saturday, June 4, 2005, 6:47:28 PM, you wrote: J> Protecting yourself from the IDE. Great. Sigh. If it makes any difference to you, I do the same thing in *every* development I work in. You can never save your work too often. -- -Mark Wieder mwieder at ahsoftware.net From mwieder at ahsoftware.net Sun Jun 5 01:58:28 2005 From: mwieder at ahsoftware.net (Mark Wieder) Date: Sat, 4 Jun 2005 22:58:28 -0700 Subject: bug In-Reply-To: References: <42A19E7A.8040501@sover.net> <2408DB41-2B44-47D5-8019-E0328B52A42D@danshafer.com> <9E82B7A4-9F6E-453B-B539-F7FBE04E07A4@writeme.com> Message-ID: <18343626491.20050604225828@ahsoftware.net> Dan- Saturday, June 4, 2005, 7:44:36 PM, you wrote: DS> I use altArchive from Altuit (Chipp Walters' company) religiously. It DS> archives the current version of the stack silently and invisibly. DS> It's saved my butt so many times I lost count. Yep. Me, too. Methinks that was St. Chipp's biggest hit. -- -Mark Wieder mwieder at ahsoftware.net From revolution at derbrill.de Sun Jun 5 06:45:21 2005 From: revolution at derbrill.de (Malte Brill) Date: Sun, 5 Jun 2005 12:45:21 +0200 Subject: delete object problem In-Reply-To: <20050605040642.6EC929300F7@mail.runrev.com> Message-ID: Hi Bob, >> Is there a way for the end user to old down the delete key and then click on >> a field or button within a group and have that object delete? >Not AFAIK, and it would be very strange for the user to do that... better >yet might be a context menu that pops up when they right-click on the object >that has 'delete' option. Even though I agree with Ken that this would be "strange" behaviour it is possible technically (assuming the lockText of the field is true). in the card script: on mouseDown if 65288 is in the keysDown then --65288 is the backspacekey on Mac. --try put the keysDown to find out the number of deletekey if "button" is in the name of the target \ or "field" is in the name of the target then delete the target beep end if end if end mouseDown Cheers, Malte From rev at armbase.com Sun Jun 5 07:00:25 2005 From: rev at armbase.com (Bob Hartley) Date: Sun, 5 Jun 2005 12:00:25 +0100 Subject: delete object problem In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: You wrote: > Hi Bob, Good Morning Malte > > > Even though I agree with Ken that this would be "strange" behaviour it is > possible technically (assuming the lockText of the field is true). Yes the locktext is true > > in the card script: > > on mouseDown > if 65288 is in the keysDown then > --65288 is the backspacekey on Mac. > --try put the keysDown to find out the number of deletekey > if "button" is in the name of the target \ > or "field" is in the name of the target then > delete the target > beep > end if > end if > end mouseDown What I'm doing is making a database where the user has many fields. They can move them and grab them and I would like them to be able to delete spurious fields. I think this may hinder the user but italso may be a feature. :-) I'll try your suggestion. How do you find out the number of a key when pressed? All the best Bob > > Cheers, > > Malte > > > _______________________________________________ use-revolution mailing > list use-revolution at lists.runrev.com > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution > From revolution at derbrill.de Sun Jun 5 07:27:34 2005 From: revolution at derbrill.de (Malte Brill) Date: Sun, 5 Jun 2005 13:27:34 +0200 Subject: delete object problem In-Reply-To: <20050605040642.6EC929300F7@mail.runrev.com> Message-ID: >How do you find out the number of a key when pressed? Hi Bob, try this in a card on mouseDown put the keysDown end mouseDown this will show the number of all keys that are pressed, seperated by a comma, on mouseDown. Most keys can be checked this way. (The only 3 I know that aren?t in the keysDown are controlkey, commandkey and capslock key) Hope that helps, Malte From alex at tweedly.net Sun Jun 5 07:33:34 2005 From: alex at tweedly.net (Alex Tweedly) Date: Sun, 05 Jun 2005 12:33:34 +0100 Subject: bug In-Reply-To: <17924760573.20050604174402@ahsoftware.net> References: <42A19E7A.8040501@sover.net> <42A1EF1D.80302@sover.net> <42A1F904.7090408@hyperactivesw.com> <42A22CDD.1080706@sover.net> <42A2461A.3010704@tweedly.net> <17924760573.20050604174402@ahsoftware.net> Message-ID: <42A2E30E.8030003@tweedly.net> Mark Wieder wrote: >Alex- > >Saturday, June 4, 2005, 5:23:54 PM, you wrote: > >AT> ctrl-S does a "Save stack" >AT> It does NOT Apply any outstanding edits that you may have - and >AT> therefore does not check for script errors. > >Yes it does. > > > Not for me it doesn't ..... 0. start a new clean run of Rev IDE 1. create a new mainstack 2. add a button 3. edit the button script, to be > on mouseUp > put "1" after msg > end mouseUp 4. apply the script 5. save (and name) the stack 5a. switch to "run" mode, and run it (click on the button) to verify the msg window will now contain 1 6. edit the script by replacing the "1" by "2" 7. apply this change, and run it to verify the msg window now says 12 8. edit the script, replacing "2" by "3" ( NB - at this point, with focus still in the editor window, ctrl-S does not work for me ) 9. click on the window border of the main stack 10. in the main menu, select File/Save [or hit ctrl-S] (and see / click to remove the "saving ... " box) 11. run it again - msg window now says 122 i.e. the script has not been applied (confirmed by the fact that the Apply button is still "live") If someone could confirm this, I'll add it to Mark's BZ 2868 Or if you can't confirm this, I'll find out what I'm doing wrong :-) >Control-S does an "apply and save". Unfortunately, it does this all in >one swell foop - it applies the changes, brings up the error dialog, >brings the script editor back up, and saves the stack anyway. If you >don't notice that there's an error dialog somewhere on the screen (as >in the case where it's hidden behind the script editor) then there's >no indication that you've saved errors in the script. > >It would be rather nice if the error dialog appeared in the list of >open windows. And if the script editor didn't get brought in front of >the error dialog. And if save didn't save errors. > >Oh, all right - I'll bugzilla this one. > > > -- Alex Tweedly http://www.tweedly.net -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.323 / Virus Database: 267.6.2 - Release Date: 04/06/2005 From M.Lange at ed.ac.uk Sun Jun 5 07:36:11 2005 From: M.Lange at ed.ac.uk (Marielle Lange) Date: Sun, 05 Jun 2005 12:36:11 +0100 Subject: Dreamcard Roadster in the future??? Message-ID: <1117971371.42a2e3ab171cb@staffmail.ed.ac.uk> Dear all, Is there any possibility to have something equivalent for dreamcard. http://www.littlefishsw.co.uk/card/roadster.html I have been surfing supercard websites... my impression: Plenty of very clever changes have been introduced in Dreamcard/revolution, compared to supercard, the IDE environment is a lot more practical in revolution (though I agree with others on this list that it could still be improved), the products that I have seen developed with revolution look more professional than the ones developed with supercard. I prefer Dreamcard/Revolution, by far... but the education market may polarize on the availability of this Roadster plugin which let them play their stacks over the net. Anybody is trying to address this? Marielle =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- About Roadster Roadster is a Web browser plug-in which lets you play SuperCard projects over the web. The possibilities are vast. You can run the projects just as if they were on your desktop. The projects could be games, multimedia, databases or any other type of application that can be made with SuperCard. The Roadster plug-in is now renamed the SuperCard WEB Plug-in, I still use the term Roadster in some places here. As of 12 July 2002 Solutions Etcetera have taken over over SuperCard the new SuperCard web site is here: http://www.superCard.us October 23, 2002 SuperCard 4 for mac os X is avalible. There have been no announcments about Roadster, the plugin dosen't seem to work in os X, I will not be updating this page until I find out something of roadster's/SC-Web's future. Any sign of roadster has gone from the Supercard classic site. =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- From rev at armbase.com Sun Jun 5 07:41:27 2005 From: rev at armbase.com (Bob Hartley) Date: Sun, 5 Jun 2005 12:41:27 +0100 Subject: delete object problem In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: You wrote: > >How do you find out the number of a key when pressed? > > Hi Bob, > > try this in a card > > on mouseDown > put the keysDown > end mouseDown > > this will show the number of all keys that are pressed, seperated by a > comma, on mouseDown. Ahaaaaaaaaaaaaaaahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh. Excelent :-) cheers bob From see3d at writeme.com Sun Jun 5 07:55:56 2005 From: see3d at writeme.com (Dennis Brown) Date: Sun, 05 Jun 2005 07:55:56 -0400 Subject: A slightly disturbing problem about items In-Reply-To: <6.2.1.2.1.20050604193352.01eed178@pop3.pon.net> References: <42A1FDCA.989AF72C@Club-Internet.fr> <6.2.1.2.1.20050604193352.01eed178@pop3.pon.net> Message-ID: Rob, Put a comma in front of it ,1,2,3,4,5 and it makes sense. Dennis On Jun 4, 2005, at 10:44 PM, Rob Cozens wrote: > Ken, et al, > > >> The >> reason you get two different values is that in your first example, >> the list >> if items is "1,2,3,4,5," and ends in the item delimiter (,). Since >> there is >> nothing that follows the item delimiter, it is ignored, and >> returns 5 items. >> The second example gives you ",1,2,3,4,5" so there are 6 items >> (nothing's >> ignored). >> > > From my perspective, the focus of JB's issue is not the presence or > absence of a terminating comma, but if (the number of items of > "1,2,3,4,5,") is 5, why does (sort items of "1,2,3,4,5," ascending > numeric) sort 6 values instead of 5? > > It appears the sort command's definition of an item is different > than the "number of items of" syntax. > > Comments? > > Rob Cozens, Staff Conservator > Mendonoma Marine Life Conservancy > > "It is contrary to human welfare to contribute in any way... > to the degradation of the sea's capacity to support life." > > -- Walter Hickel, U. S. Secretary of the Interior, 1971 > in "From Abundance to Scarcity" by Michael L. Weber > > _______________________________________________ > use-revolution mailing list > use-revolution at lists.runrev.com > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution > From ridge11103 at btinternet.com Sun Jun 5 08:54:09 2005 From: ridge11103 at btinternet.com (John Ridge) Date: Sun, 05 Jun 2005 13:54:09 +0100 Subject: Scripting conferences supporting stacks In-Reply-To: <42A1F9D7.3090203@hyperactivesw.com> Message-ID: I fully agree with Eric. And a big thank-you to Klaus. Apart from all the other good stuff, I really needed the details of how to get non-contiguous selections from a list field. I didn't realise it was feasible! -- From: "J. Landman Gay" Reply-To: jacque at hyperactivesw.com, How to use Revolution Date: Sat, 04 Jun 2005 13:58:31 -0500 To: How to use Revolution Subject: Re: Scripting conferences supporting stacks On 6/4/05 2:49 AM, Eric Chatonet wrote: > Hi everyone, > > It's the week-end. > So, to rest :-), I had a look to the scripting conferences supporting > stacks (http://support.runrev.com/scriptingconferences/) and especially > to the last one about controls from Klaus Major. > Kudos! > > These tutorials should be declared directed to the public benefit > especially for beginners. > These tutorials should be included in the Rev package. > These tutorials should be posted to Rev Online. > These tutorials should be announced on this list in capital letters. > > Please, go and download: I see so many questions on this list the right > answers of which are in these stacks... with Klaus humour as a free gift! It is very rewarding to hear these are useful; thanks! We have a wonderful conference coming up in a week, the Message Hierarchy by Richard Gaskin. I will be uploading his stack on Monday and will try to remember to announce it in all capital letters. ;) There is a brief link to the conference stacks on the front page of the RR site, under the "latest news" heading, but maybe I should poke the team to make it a bit more prominent somewhere for newcomers. I'll pass on your suggestions. Having the stacks on RevOnline isn't a bad idea either. -- Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com From ptrendler at bigpond.com Sun Jun 5 08:56:21 2005 From: ptrendler at bigpond.com (Pat Trendler) Date: Sun, 5 Jun 2005 22:56:21 +1000 Subject: bug References: <42A19E7A.8040501@sover.net><42A1EF1D.80302@sover.net><42A1F904.7090408@hyperactivesw.com> <42A22CDD.1080706@sover.net><42A2461A.3010704@tweedly.net> <17924760573.20050604174402@ahsoftware.net> <42A2E30E.8030003@tweedly.net> Message-ID: <014201c569cd$ff833c10$0100000a@super> I ran twice just to make sure. Win XP Rev 2.5.1 Step 8. Ctrl-S worked OK. Apply btn was greyed out. Step 11. Msg box was 123. Apply btn no longer active. Pat patrend at bigpond.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "Alex Tweedly" To: "How to use Revolution" Sent: Sunday, June 05, 2005 9:33 PM Subject: Re: bug > Mark Wieder wrote: > >>Alex- >> >>Saturday, June 4, 2005, 5:23:54 PM, you wrote: >> >>AT> ctrl-S does a "Save stack" >>AT> It does NOT Apply any outstanding edits that you may have - and AT> >>therefore does not check for script errors. >> >>Yes it does. >> >> > Not for me it doesn't ..... > > 0. start a new clean run of Rev IDE > 1. create a new mainstack > 2. add a button > 3. edit the button script, to be > >> on mouseUp >> put "1" after msg >> end mouseUp > > 4. apply the script > 5. save (and name) the stack > 5a. switch to "run" mode, and run it (click on the button) to verify the > msg window will now contain 1 > 6. edit the script by replacing the "1" by "2" > 7. apply this change, and run it to verify the msg window now says > 12 > 8. edit the script, replacing "2" by "3" > ( NB - at this point, with focus still in the editor window, ctrl-S > does not work for me ) > 9. click on the window border of the main stack > 10. in the main menu, select File/Save [or hit ctrl-S] (and see / click to > remove the "saving ... " box) > 11. run it again - msg window now says 122 > i.e. the script has not been applied (confirmed by the fact that the Apply > button is still "live") > > > If someone could confirm this, I'll add it to Mark's BZ 2868 > Or if you can't confirm this, I'll find out what I'm doing wrong :-) > >>Control-S does an "apply and save". Unfortunately, it does this all in >>one swell foop - it applies the changes, brings up the error dialog, >>brings the script editor back up, and saves the stack anyway. If you >>don't notice that there's an error dialog somewhere on the screen (as >>in the case where it's hidden behind the script editor) then there's >>no indication that you've saved errors in the script. >> >>It would be rather nice if the error dialog appeared in the list of >>open windows. And if the script editor didn't get brought in front of >>the error dialog. And if save didn't save errors. >> >>Oh, all right - I'll bugzilla this one. >> > Alex Tweedly http://www.tweedly.net > > From rcozens at pon.net Sun Jun 5 09:24:50 2005 From: rcozens at pon.net (Rob Cozens) Date: Sun, 05 Jun 2005 06:24:50 -0700 Subject: A slightly disturbing problem about items In-Reply-To: References: <42A1FDCA.989AF72C@Club-Internet.fr> <6.2.1.2.1.20050604193352.01eed178@pop3.pon.net> Message-ID: <6.2.1.2.1.20050605062151.01e7f970@pop3.pon.net> Hi Dennis, >Put a comma in front of it ,1,2,3,4,5 and it makes sense. Put a comma in front of it, and (the number of items of ",1,2,3,4,5") is six, not five. As I see it, the sort command is adding an empty item that does not exist in "1,2,3,4,5,". Rob Cozens "I must be the change I want to see in the world." -- Gandhi From rev at armbase.com Sun Jun 5 09:35:42 2005 From: rev at armbase.com (Bob Hartley) Date: Sun, 5 Jun 2005 14:35:42 +0100 Subject: change name of standalone Message-ID: Hi All. In my wee app I want the user to be able to change the name of the .exe app (the titlebar) when it opens. I have found a curious thing. I have a stack called boabieprefs (full paths and relative paths have been tried) that has a field "appname". In my stack "hello" (this will be the standalone) if I open rev and then do File->openstack-> and chose hello.rev the following script works on preopenstack set the name of stack "hello" to field "appname" of stack "boabieprefs" end preopenstack It does not work when I double click to open the stack in runrev, nor in the .exe On other ocasions this crasjhes revolution. Actually it is now constantly crashing rev (the script error box is flashing contuously and I've had to restart) How do I change the name of the opening stack in a .exe standalone using an external prefs.rev file? Cheers Bob From alex at tweedly.net Sun Jun 5 09:44:39 2005 From: alex at tweedly.net (Alex Tweedly) Date: Sun, 05 Jun 2005 14:44:39 +0100 Subject: bug In-Reply-To: <014201c569cd$ff833c10$0100000a@super> References: <42A19E7A.8040501@sover.net><42A1EF1D.80302@sover.net><42A1F904.7090408@hyperactivesw.com> <42A22CDD.1080706@sover.net><42A2461A.3010704@tweedly.net> <17924760573.20050604174402@ahsoftware.net> <42A2E30E.8030003@tweedly.net> <014201c569cd$ff833c10$0100000a@super> Message-ID: <42A301C7.5070400@tweedly.net> Pat Trendler wrote: > I ran twice just to make sure. Win XP Rev 2.5.1 > > Step 8. Ctrl-S worked OK. Apply btn was greyed out. > Interesting. Wonder why it doesn't work on my machines (same on both XP machines I have here - and I think it was the same on my old Win2000 machine, but can't confirm it till I get home at the end of the week ...) > Step 11. Msg box was 123. Apply btn no longer active. > Did you (or could you, please) try the sequence one more time. This time, do not try the ctrl-S after step 8, which should be equivalent to what I am able to do. So simply do ... 8. edit the script, replacing "2" by "3" 9. click on the window border of the main stack 10. in the main menu, select File/Save [or hit ctrl-S] (and see / click to remove the "saving ... " box) 11. run it again - msg window now says 12? Thanks, -- Alex. > > ----- Original Message ----- From: "Alex Tweedly" > To: "How to use Revolution" > Sent: Sunday, June 05, 2005 9:33 PM > Subject: Re: bug > > >> Mark Wieder wrote: >> >>> Alex- >>> >>> Saturday, June 4, 2005, 5:23:54 PM, you wrote: >>> >>> AT> ctrl-S does a "Save stack" >>> AT> It does NOT Apply any outstanding edits that you may have - and >>> AT> therefore does not check for script errors. >>> >>> Yes it does. >>> >>> >> Not for me it doesn't ..... >> >> 0. start a new clean run of Rev IDE >> 1. create a new mainstack >> 2. add a button >> 3. edit the button script, to be >> >>> on mouseUp >>> put "1" after msg >>> end mouseUp >> >> >> 4. apply the script >> 5. save (and name) the stack >> 5a. switch to "run" mode, and run it (click on the button) to >> verify the msg window will now contain 1 >> 6. edit the script by replacing the "1" by "2" >> 7. apply this change, and run it to verify the msg window now says 12 >> 8. edit the script, replacing "2" by "3" >> ( NB - at this point, with focus still in the editor window, >> ctrl-S does not work for me ) >> 9. click on the window border of the main stack >> 10. in the main menu, select File/Save [or hit ctrl-S] (and see / >> click to remove the "saving ... " box) >> 11. run it again - msg window now says 122 >> i.e. the script has not been applied (confirmed by the fact that the >> Apply button is still "live") >> >> >> If someone could confirm this, I'll add it to Mark's BZ 2868 >> Or if you can't confirm this, I'll find out what I'm doing wrong :-) >> >>> Control-S does an "apply and save". Unfortunately, it does this all in >>> one swell foop - it applies the changes, brings up the error dialog, >>> brings the script editor back up, and saves the stack anyway. If you >>> don't notice that there's an error dialog somewhere on the screen (as >>> in the case where it's hidden behind the script editor) then there's >>> no indication that you've saved errors in the script. >>> >>> It would be rather nice if the error dialog appeared in the list of >>> open windows. And if the script editor didn't get brought in front of >>> the error dialog. And if save didn't save errors. >>> >>> Oh, all right - I'll bugzilla this one. >>> >> Alex Tweedly http://www.tweedly.net >> >> > > _______________________________________________ > use-revolution mailing list > use-revolution at lists.runrev.com > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution > > -- Alex Tweedly http://www.tweedly.net -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.323 / Virus Database: 267.6.2 - Release Date: 04/06/2005 From eric.chatonet at sosmartsoftware.com Sun Jun 5 09:57:16 2005 From: eric.chatonet at sosmartsoftware.com (Eric Chatonet) Date: Sun, 5 Jun 2005 15:57:16 +0200 Subject: change name of standalone In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <0686D9FF-9E78-4019-A992-E469287A4254@sosmartsoftware.com> Hi Bob, May be you could choose a less risky approach by setting the label of the stack without changing its name? Le 5 juin 05 ? 15:35, Bob Hartley a ?crit : > In my wee app I want the user to be able to change the name of > the .exe app > (the titlebar) when it opens. > > I have found a curious thing. > I have a stack called boabieprefs (full paths and relative paths > have been > tried) that has a field "appname". > > In my stack "hello" (this will be the standalone) if I open rev and > then do > File->openstack-> and chose hello.rev the following script works > > on preopenstack > set the name of stack "hello" to field "appname" of stack > "boabieprefs" > end preopenstack > > It does not work when I double click to open the stack in runrev, > nor in the > .exe > > On other ocasions this crasjhes revolution. Actually it is now > constantly > crashing rev (the script error box is flashing contuously and I've > had to > restart) > > How do I change the name of the opening stack in a .exe standalone > using an > external prefs.rev file? Best regards from Paris, Eric Chatonet. ---------------------------------------------------------------- So Smart Software For institutions, companies and associations Built-to-order applications: management, multimedia, internet, etc. Windows, Mac OS and Linux... With the French touch Plugins, tutorials and more on our website ---------------------------------------------------------------- Web site http://www.sosmartsoftware.com/ Email eric.chatonet at sosmartsoftware.com/ Phone 33 (0)1 43 31 77 62 Mobile 33 (0)6 20 74 50 86 ---------------------------------------------------------------- From mark at maseurope.net Sun Jun 5 09:59:26 2005 From: mark at maseurope.net (Mark Smith) Date: Sun, 5 Jun 2005 14:59:26 +0100 Subject: change name of standalone In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: I suspect that changing the name of a running application is just not on (in the IDE, the running app is Revolution, not your stack). If you simply want to change what's in the title bar, look at the label or title properties.... Mark Smith On 5 Jun 2005, at 14:35, Bob Hartley wrote: > Hi All. > > In my wee app I want the user to be able to change the name of the > .exe app > (the titlebar) when it opens. > > I have found a curious thing. > I have a stack called boabieprefs (full paths and relative paths have > been > tried) that has a field "appname". > > In my stack "hello" (this will be the standalone) if I open rev and > then do > File->openstack-> and chose hello.rev the following script works > > on preopenstack > set the name of stack "hello" to field "appname" of stack "boabieprefs" > end preopenstack > > It does not work when I double click to open the stack in runrev, nor > in the > .exe > > On other ocasions this crasjhes revolution. Actually it is now > constantly > crashing rev (the script error box is flashing contuously and I've had > to > restart) > > How do I change the name of the opening stack in a .exe standalone > using an > external prefs.rev file? > > > Cheers > Bob > _______________________________________________ > use-revolution mailing list > use-revolution at lists.runrev.com > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution > From mpetrides at earthlink.net Sun Jun 5 10:03:05 2005 From: mpetrides at earthlink.net (Marian Petrides) Date: Sun, 5 Jun 2005 09:03:05 -0500 Subject: Dreamcard Roadster in the future??? - great idea! In-Reply-To: <1117971371.42a2e3ab171cb@staffmail.ed.ac.uk> References: <1117971371.42a2e3ab171cb@staffmail.ed.ac.uk> Message-ID: <03276F5E-C0CA-4036-9241-B2716FCF4321@earthlink.net> Can't answer the question being asked, but I'd like to add my support for web playback as a built-in (or plug-in) feature of Rev. Even though I still strongly prefer using standalones for my own apps, there are plenty of folks out their (read consumers/administrators, etc.) who are now highly focused on web delivery. I'm not exactly sure what Roadster does. However, IMHO, it would be ideal if Rev continued its current focus on self-running apps but also made web playback (preferably with interactivity) easy, too. My 2 cents worth... Marian > . but the education market may polarize > on the availability of this Roadster plugin which let them play > their stacks > over the net. Anybody is trying to address this? From kray at sonsothunder.com Sun Jun 5 10:20:30 2005 From: kray at sonsothunder.com (Ken Ray) Date: Sun, 05 Jun 2005 10:20:30 -0400 Subject: Dreamcard Roadster in the future??? In-Reply-To: <1117971371.42a2e3ab171cb@staffmail.ed.ac.uk> Message-ID: > http://www.littlefishsw.co.uk/card/roadster.html > > I have been surfing supercard websites... my impression: > > Plenty of very clever changes have been introduced in Dreamcard/revolution, > compared to supercard, the IDE environment is a lot more practical in > revolution (though I agree with others on this list that it could still be > improved), the products that I have seen developed with revolution look more > professional than the ones developed with supercard. > > I prefer Dreamcard/Revolution, by far... but the education market may polarize > on the availability of this Roadster plugin which let them play their stacks > over the net. Anybody is trying to address this? Hey Marielle! Well, the first thing you need to know is the Roadster only worked with SuperCard 3.x under OS 9; they are currently at 4.5 under OS X and AFAIK have no plans to upgrade the plugin. Secondly, the Roadster plugin was mediocre at best - lots of stuff didn't work, or didn't work properly, and although you could develop something simple to play in the browser, it was hard to do something sophisticated for the web. I think it may actually be better if RunRev wants to consider running content in a plugin that it consider outputing stacks to Flash and running them with *that* plugin (since it is so ubiquitous) rather than creating their own plugin. But that's just my 2 cents, Ken Ray Sons of Thunder Software Email: kray at sonsothunder.com Web Site: http://www.sonsothunder.com/ From rev at armbase.com Sun Jun 5 10:49:27 2005 From: rev at armbase.com (Bob Hartley) Date: Sun, 5 Jun 2005 15:49:27 +0100 Subject: change name of standalone In-Reply-To: <0686D9FF-9E78-4019-A992-E469287A4254@sosmartsoftware.com> References: <0686D9FF-9E78-4019-A992-E469287A4254@sosmartsoftware.com> Message-ID: You wrote: > Hi Bob, > > May be you could choose a less risky approach by setting the label of the > stack without changing its name? > > Le 5 juin 05 ? 15:35, Bob Hartley a ?crit : Hi Eric and Mark I can do this via a button and with this script on mouseUp set the label of stack howdy to the field appname of stack boabieprefs end mouseUp If boabieprefs is already open then this works on openstack set the label of stack howdy to the field appname of stack boabieprefs end openstack But if boabieprefs is not already open then there is a rev crash. OK something really weird has just happened. I trieds this to open boabieprefs (in same folder) but it wont open. I've looked on the google search but cant find the answer and now my revdocs have stopped working. :( on preopenstack open stack boabieprefs pass preOpenStack end preopenstack on openstack set the label of stack howdy to the field appname of stack boabieprefs pass openstack end openstack still no luck I'll need to put this down and have a break. :-) More later bob From mark at maseurope.net Sun Jun 5 11:01:13 2005 From: mark at maseurope.net (Mark Smith) Date: Sun, 5 Jun 2005 16:01:13 +0100 Subject: change name of standalone In-Reply-To: References: <0686D9FF-9E78-4019-A992-E469287A4254@sosmartsoftware.com> Message-ID: <0ee4e6ad5d85dec264cd614949f5c280@maseurope.net> You may be creating some sort of openStack loop problem there. Maybe it can be simpler? Something like: In the script of the main stack on openStack if the target is me then set the label of stack "howdy" to field "appname" of stack "boabieprefs" pass openStack end openStack Bear in mind that the openStack message will likely be sent to the main stack when any of the sub stacks is opened, hence checking the target. Cheers, Mark On 5 Jun 2005, at 15:49, Bob Hartley wrote: > You wrote: > >> Hi Bob, >> >> May be you could choose a less risky approach by setting the label of >> the >> stack without changing its name? >> >> Le 5 juin 05 ? 15:35, Bob Hartley a ?crit : > > Hi Eric and Mark > > I can do this via a button and with this script > on mouseUp > set the label of stack howdy to the field appname of stack > boabieprefs > end mouseUp > > If boabieprefs is already open then this works > on openstack > set the label of stack howdy to the field appname of stack > boabieprefs > end openstack > > But if boabieprefs is not already open then there is a rev crash. > OK something really weird has just happened. I trieds this to open > boabieprefs (in same folder) but it wont open. I've looked on the > google > search but cant find the answer and now my revdocs have stopped > working. :( > > on preopenstack > open stack boabieprefs > pass preOpenStack > end preopenstack > > on openstack > set the label of stack howdy to the field appname of stack boabieprefs > pass openstack > end openstack > > still no luck > > I'll need to put this down and have a break. :-) > > More later > bob > _______________________________________________ > use-revolution mailing list > use-revolution at lists.runrev.com > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution > From troy at rpsystems.net Sun Jun 5 11:14:06 2005 From: troy at rpsystems.net (Troy Rollins) Date: Sun, 5 Jun 2005 11:14:06 -0400 Subject: Dreamcard Roadster in the future??? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Jun 5, 2005, at 10:20 AM, Ken Ray wrote: > I think it may actually be better if RunRev wants to consider running > content in a plugin that it consider outputing stacks to Flash and > running > them with *that* plugin (since it is so ubiquitous) rather than > creating > their own plugin. > Which is something I just don't see happening, ever. Can you imagine the engineering time required? Nice dream, but I think if that is what you want, then just using Flash would be far more productive, -- Troy RPSystems, Ltd. http://www.rpsystems.net From klaus at major-k.de Sun Jun 5 11:24:20 2005 From: klaus at major-k.de (Klaus Major) Date: Sun, 5 Jun 2005 17:24:20 +0200 Subject: Dreamcard Roadster in the future??? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <9000A0FD-6EBD-466F-A2EB-7A71CCD989A9@major-k.de> Hi Marielle and Troy and all, > On Jun 5, 2005, at 10:20 AM, Ken Ray wrote: > > >> I think it may actually be better if RunRev wants to consider running >> content in a plugin that it consider outputing stacks to Flash and >> running >> them with *that* plugin (since it is so ubiquitous) rather than >> creating >> their own plugin. >> > Which is something I just don't see happening, ever. Can you > imagine the engineering time required? Nice dream, but I think if > that is what you want, then just using Flash would be far more > productive, ...and to be honest, i would NOT miss it. I never did. Please read this and spread the URL, so as many people as possible will get to read this!!!!! http://www.fourthworld.com/embassy/articles/netapps.html Wonderful read, thanks a lot, Richard! > Troy > RPSystems, Ltd. > http://www.rpsystems.net Best Klaus Major klaus at major-k.de http://www.major-k.de From jbondy at sover.net Sun Jun 5 11:24:13 2005 From: jbondy at sover.net (Jon) Date: Sun, 05 Jun 2005 11:24:13 -0400 Subject: help with trivial syntax Message-ID: <42A3191D.5020601@sover.net> Is this syntactically correct? "if not there is a file fName then" It is very difficult to find an area of the documentation dealing with the syntax of "conditions"... Jon From eric.chatonet at sosmartsoftware.com Sun Jun 5 11:29:39 2005 From: eric.chatonet at sosmartsoftware.com (Eric Chatonet) Date: Sun, 5 Jun 2005 17:29:39 +0200 Subject: help with trivial syntax In-Reply-To: <42A3191D.5020601@sover.net> References: <42A3191D.5020601@sover.net> Message-ID: Hi Jon, Perfect :-) May be it's easier to understand if you use hyphens: if not (there is a file fName) then But you may write also: If there is no file fName then If there is not a file fName then Transcript is very comprehensive... Le 5 juin 05 ? 17:24, Jon a ?crit : > Is this syntactically correct? > "if not there is a file fName then" Best regards from Paris, Eric Chatonet. ---------------------------------------------------------------- So Smart Software For institutions, companies and associations Built-to-order applications: management, multimedia, internet, etc. Windows, Mac OS and Linux... With the French touch Plugins, tutorials and more on our website ---------------------------------------------------------------- Web site http://www.sosmartsoftware.com/ Email eric.chatonet at sosmartsoftware.com/ Phone 33 (0)1 43 31 77 62 Mobile 33 (0)6 20 74 50 86 ---------------------------------------------------------------- From soapdog at mac.com Sun Jun 5 11:29:32 2005 From: soapdog at mac.com (Andre Garzia) Date: Sun, 5 Jun 2005 12:29:32 -0300 Subject: Dreamcard Roadster in the future??? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <370162955ae35257bdd1c8a84ff62e8f@mac.com> Hi Folks, I never used SuperCard but to think in embedding a runtime engine inside a browser plugin is not a good idea in my opnion. People always talk, let us get Revolution on the web!!!! and stuff like that, I think Revolution is more than the web. See, if RunRev creates a plugin for Rev to open inside a browser window, clients still will need to install the plugin, so what is the difference between using Dreamcard Player and a browser plugin? Both will need to be downloaded but the Dreamcard player is much more than a browser. I can't see a single advantage using the browser plugin approach. There's no way for RunRev to create a magical way that loading http://myserver/myVoodooStack.rev will sundenlly pop ups an application, also, that would be too risky. In win32 land they could create strange auto installable ActiveX wrappers, but that would break the whole cross platform thing we come to trust and love. Also about exporting to flash, I think we're missing the thing, I don't think flash can do all things Rev can do, for example, can flash plugins listen on a socket? I trully don't know, also, is flash able to build "Real" guis with drag and drop and clipboard support, or we will run on the land of emulated graphics (cute, but, emulated). I think exporting to java bytecodes would be better, almost half the job is done, java can access all we need. Altought I like the Dreamcard player better than any browser. Another option if you trully want to go web-esque in your Rev doings is to go CGI. CGIs are easy to do and now will all the xml wonders running around the web one can pull very clever tricks. For the education market, just think like this, Using a browser will restrict your app in the browser pluging window and the popups it spawns, if the kids in America are like the kids here in Brazil, great chance that in the first minute the teacher turns its back, they will all open another flap in their browsers and start chatting, playing games, and just browse their fav sites, oh, and email all their buddies, and there's nothing you'll be able to do. Unless you cut their internet access and lock them inside a lan. Which when I was young in the school was motive enough for subversion and for us to hide DOOM copies in the machines and play without sound while the teachers tried to teach us, it enabled situations like when the principal was strolling thru the classes: Principal: look all the teens are so concentrated at their screens, computers do favor education. Teacher: I am so proud of those teens. Teen #1: Quick Marcelo there are rocket launchers in bay #2!!!! (shouting) Principal: ... Teacher looks angry Teen #1: Hey, I finished my work okay! Teacher: Yeah, I belive you're all finished.... Now let us talk about the beautifull realms of Dreamcard Player in education/subversion environment. First, Dreamcard Player is sandboxed, so no kid can destroy the computer, install Virii or malware just by using the thing (... in that school class, we were 5 coders and our main activity was to code virii to kill the students lab so that we could skip classes. When the teachers figured it out, they did the most smart thing I ever saw, they created a 'tuition program' and gave us benefit to keep the school clean of virii and also made us code usefull apps for the school like public voting system for the students, we were 13 or 14 can't remember right now, but we used turbo pascal). Let us get back to Dreamcard Player, the player can load stacks and with some clever coding one can remote control the students players much like the Apple eMate/Classroom dock. The player is a rich client with a rich gui and library, there's more freedom for creating teaching tools with Dreamcard Player then with Browsers and HTML interfaces. The students will have no way of killing time using the player, no email, no cool sites to browse, one school should license altBrowser and create a students browser that they could flip on or off as the students finish their tasks, this way they could manage their time. There are so many benefits using the Dreamcard Player for education that just by writting this email I keep finding more and this runs the risk of becoming an eternal thread. I think the ideal setup for an education lab would be: Student computers running dreamcard player with altBrowser. Teacher computer running Rev with altSQLite (your databases easy to backup) The teachers computer should have a Boss/Guide stack that would allow him to load and unload stacks on the students computer. The students besides all the educational stacks could have a little altBrowser based browser, a little eMail app and a Chat app (RevChat anyone?). This setup is safe and don't restrict your creative options as a teacher/RevCoder, all the other two options browser plugin/flash would not enable you to travel the far realms of true revolution engine! :-P man, this is a big email... andre On Jun 5, 2005, at 11:20 AM, Ken Ray wrote: > >> http://www.littlefishsw.co.uk/card/roadster.html >> >> I have been surfing supercard websites... my impression: >> >> Plenty of very clever changes have been introduced in >> Dreamcard/revolution, >> compared to supercard, the IDE environment is a lot more practical in >> revolution (though I agree with others on this list that it could >> still be >> improved), the products that I have seen developed with revolution >> look more >> professional than the ones developed with supercard. >> >> I prefer Dreamcard/Revolution, by far... but the education market may >> polarize >> on the availability of this Roadster plugin which let them play their >> stacks >> over the net. Anybody is trying to address this? > > Hey Marielle! > > Well, the first thing you need to know is the Roadster only worked with > SuperCard 3.x under OS 9; they are currently at 4.5 under OS X and > AFAIK > have no plans to upgrade the plugin. > > Secondly, the Roadster plugin was mediocre at best - lots of stuff > didn't > work, or didn't work properly, and although you could develop something > simple to play in the browser, it was hard to do something > sophisticated for > the web. > > I think it may actually be better if RunRev wants to consider running > content in a plugin that it consider outputing stacks to Flash and > running > them with *that* plugin (since it is so ubiquitous) rather than > creating > their own plugin. > > But that's just my 2 cents, > > Ken Ray > Sons of Thunder Software > Email: kray at sonsothunder.com > Web Site: http://www.sonsothunder.com/ > > > > _______________________________________________ > use-revolution mailing list > use-revolution at lists.runrev.com > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution > > -- Andre Alves Garzia ? 2004 ? BRAZIL http://studio.soapdog.org From soapdog at mac.com Sun Jun 5 11:31:06 2005 From: soapdog at mac.com (Andre Garzia) Date: Sun, 5 Jun 2005 12:31:06 -0300 Subject: Beyond the Browser (was Re: Dreamcard Roadster in the future???) In-Reply-To: <9000A0FD-6EBD-466F-A2EB-7A71CCD989A9@major-k.de> References: <9000A0FD-6EBD-466F-A2EB-7A71CCD989A9@major-k.de> Message-ID: <8547c19202b1fff2ecee8565be5f80b6@mac.com> On Jun 5, 2005, at 12:24 PM, Klaus Major wrote: > Please read this and spread the URL, so as many people as possible > will get to read this!!!!! > > http://www.fourthworld.com/embassy/articles/netapps.html > > Wonderful read, thanks a lot, Richard! did you know that I've got that article printed on glossy paper besides my desk... I read it every week. Cheers andre > -- Andre Alves Garzia ? 2004 Soap Dog Studios - BRAZIL http://studio.soapdog.org From bvg at mac.com Sun Jun 5 11:32:44 2005 From: bvg at mac.com (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Bj=F6rnke_von_Gierke?=) Date: Sun, 5 Jun 2005 17:32:44 +0200 Subject: help with trivial syntax In-Reply-To: <42A3191D.5020601@sover.net> References: <42A3191D.5020601@sover.net> Message-ID: On Jun 05 2005, at 17:24, Jon wrote: > Is this syntactically correct? > > "if not there is a file fName then" yes, your filepath must be somehow wrong. > > It is very difficult to find an area of the documentation dealing with > the syntax of "conditions"... > > Jon > _______________________________________________ > use-revolution mailing list > use-revolution at lists.runrev.com > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution > > -- official ChatRev page: http://chatrev.cjb.net Chat with other RunRev developers: go stack URL "http://homepage.mac.com/bvg/chatrev1.3.rev" From soapdog at mac.com Sun Jun 5 11:35:58 2005 From: soapdog at mac.com (Andre Garzia) Date: Sun, 5 Jun 2005 12:35:58 -0300 Subject: running rev cgi on Mac OS 8.6 Personal web server? In-Reply-To: <20050605052629.62BFEB6B4@xprdmailfe14.nwk.excite.com> References: <20050605052629.62BFEB6B4@xprdmailfe14.nwk.excite.com> Message-ID: <4851994cea42c1b00c9dedb456b4b499@mac.com> On Jun 5, 2005, at 2:26 AM, Thomas McCarthy wrote: > > I've got an old beige 233 mac. I've got a fiber optic connection > (which I pay for off or on!) I've got a bunch of stacks I want to > share with other Latin teachers... > > Wouldn't it be very possible to clean up the old beige, make a massive > folder, put in all my stacks and the rev cgi engine in there, start up > personal web server and let it all run from there? > > I would need to note the ip address, right and share that with others? > anything else to consider? > > tom--who is very excited about this. > > _____________________ Tom, Wow classic machine, gotta love those! The only HTTPd server I remember for classic (by 'I remember' read 'affordable') was SocialEngs server which I think is out of business now. I'll propose another option for you, not CGI based but RevHTTPd based. RevHTTPd is a webserver written in Rev, it's pure transcript based so it will run on your machine fine. If you just want to share the stacks, then that's plain easy, I can show you how to do it, you'll launch the app, your mates will point their browsers to your IP and they will see a nice page with your stacks available for download. If you want to run the stacks on webspace, then you can do it too, just tweek here and there and they will run on RevHTTPd, the new version that will be debuted in RevConWest is source compatible with libCGI so anything that runs in one will run in the other. I think it's pretty cool and that you can use it. I can assist you on that if you explain me better what you're trying to do. Cheers andre > __________________________ > Join Excite! - http://www.excite.com > The most personalized portal on the Web! > > > _______________________________________________ > use-revolution mailing list > use-revolution at lists.runrev.com > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution > > -- Andre Alves Garzia ? 2004 Soap Dog Studios - BRAZIL http://studio.soapdog.org From klaus at major-k.de Sun Jun 5 11:38:12 2005 From: klaus at major-k.de (Klaus Major) Date: Sun, 5 Jun 2005 17:38:12 +0200 Subject: help with trivial syntax In-Reply-To: <42A3191D.5020601@sover.net> References: <42A3191D.5020601@sover.net> Message-ID: <2CE140EC-1493-4696-802C-F05E3F38C286@major-k.de> Hi Jon, > Is this syntactically correct? > "if not there is a file fName then" Yes, but sounds horrible, i know :-D The engine, which is not aware of these fine lingual "nuances" will read: if NOT (there is a file xyz) then... If you really mind you can also script: if there is not a file fName then... :-) > It is very difficult to find an area of the documentation dealing > with the syntax of "conditions"... > > Jon Regards Klaus Major klaus at major-k.de http://www.major-k.de From sims at ezpzapps.com Sun Jun 5 11:37:52 2005 From: sims at ezpzapps.com (sims) Date: Sun, 5 Jun 2005 17:37:52 +0200 Subject: Dreamcard Roadster in the future??? In-Reply-To: <370162955ae35257bdd1c8a84ff62e8f@mac.com> References: <370162955ae35257bdd1c8a84ff62e8f@mac.com> Message-ID: > >man, this is a big email... > >andre Yo Andre! next time you come to the Mediterranean please bring me some of that coffee you are drinking in Brazil! Must be good stuff!! ;-) ciao, sims From klaus at major-k.de Sun Jun 5 11:40:16 2005 From: klaus at major-k.de (Klaus Major) Date: Sun, 5 Jun 2005 17:40:16 +0200 Subject: Beyond the Browser (was Re: Dreamcard Roadster in the future???) In-Reply-To: <8547c19202b1fff2ecee8565be5f80b6@mac.com> References: <9000A0FD-6EBD-466F-A2EB-7A71CCD989A9@major-k.de> <8547c19202b1fff2ecee8565be5f80b6@mac.com> Message-ID: <396F81CE-F99C-4B92-966E-2BCE5F84A6B3@major-k.de> HI Andre, > On Jun 5, 2005, at 12:24 PM, Klaus Major wrote: >> Please read this and spread the URL, so as many people as possible >> will get to read this!!!!! >> http://www.fourthworld.com/embassy/articles/netapps.html >> Wonderful read, thanks a lot, Richard! >> > did you know that I've got that article printed on glossy paper > besides my desk... I read it every week. Really? A very good idea! In spanish? ;-) > Cheers > andre Best Klaus Major klaus at major-k.de http://www.major-k.de From troy at rpsystems.net Sun Jun 5 11:45:24 2005 From: troy at rpsystems.net (Troy Rollins) Date: Sun, 5 Jun 2005 11:45:24 -0400 Subject: Dreamcard Roadster in the future??? In-Reply-To: <9000A0FD-6EBD-466F-A2EB-7A71CCD989A9@major-k.de> References: <9000A0FD-6EBD-466F-A2EB-7A71CCD989A9@major-k.de> Message-ID: <5e7ffffd14aeef6177a34f3d0799fd86@rpsystems.net> On Jun 5, 2005, at 11:24 AM, Klaus Major wrote: > Please read this and spread the URL, so as many people as possible > will get to read this!!!!! > > http://www.fourthworld.com/embassy/articles/netapps.html > > Wonderful read, thanks a lot, Richard! Its true, I don't argue that either, and I've read Richard's document many times. It IS a great article. I've believed similarly for a long time, and produced many many projects along the same lines of thinking. Nevertheless there are times when an executable of any kind is unacceptable. Browser plugins however frequently escape this rule. Andre - I also agree with you, that a java exporter would be the best solution for Rev and browser delivery... but I expect we won't be seeing that either. FWIW, Director with the OSControl xtra, can do cross platform native interface components, in the browser. Flash of course, can not. ( Admittedly, I am primarily a "Director guy" who occasionally finds Rev, or Flash, to be the right too for the job at hand. ) -- Troy RPSystems, Ltd. http://www.rpsystems.net From lynn at paradigmasoft.com Sun Jun 5 11:44:56 2005 From: lynn at paradigmasoft.com (Lynn Fredricks) Date: Sun, 5 Jun 2005 08:44:56 -0700 Subject: Dreamcard Roadster in the future??? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <1094136196-64476738@lindbergh.macserve.net> > > http://www.littlefishsw.co.uk/card/roadster.html > > > > I have been surfing supercard websites... my impression: > > > > Plenty of very clever changes have been introduced in > > Dreamcard/revolution, compared to supercard, the IDE > environment is a > > lot more practical in revolution (though I agree with > others on this > > list that it could still be improved), the products that I > have seen > > developed with revolution look more professional than the > ones developed with supercard. > > > > I prefer Dreamcard/Revolution, by far... but the education > market may > > polarize on the availability of this Roadster plugin which let them > > play their stacks over the net. Anybody is trying to address this? A piece of history! When Allegiant sold off SuperCard to IncWell, Roadster was already broken. For a while during the 3.x era, the Windows plugin was updated and much, much more stable than the Mac plugin. Ken is right, only a subset of SuperCard was supported (and for a while, more on Windows than Mac!). My feeling is that it didn't quite succeed at the time since so many internet users were puttering along at early modem speeds. Best regards, Lynn Fredricks President Paradigma Software, Inc Joining Worlds of Information Deploy True Client-Server Database Solutions Royalty Free with Valentina Developer Network http://www.paradigmasoft.com From mpetrides at earthlink.net Sun Jun 5 11:49:15 2005 From: mpetrides at earthlink.net (Marian Petrides) Date: Sun, 5 Jun 2005 10:49:15 -0500 Subject: Dreamcard Roadster in the future??? In-Reply-To: <370162955ae35257bdd1c8a84ff62e8f@mac.com> References: <370162955ae35257bdd1c8a84ff62e8f@mac.com> Message-ID: <515DED5D-1A74-4A96-8EAE-7732BBCB4224@earthlink.net> All of this is likely true, but there are educational markets (higher ed, adult distance learning, etc.) where the "panacea" of web based course materials is still in vogue and where it might actually work. Mind you, like everyone on this list (I suspect), I'm well aware of the limitations of web delivery. But the people above me who make the decisions--the folks who are, frankly, only marginally computer literate--still see it as a panacea. Some of them are "educable," i.e. can be convinced of the reasons why truly interactive apps are better developed as standalone apps, but many may never see the light. M On Jun 5, 2005, at 10:29 AM, Andre Garzia wrote: > > For the education market, just think like this, Using a browser > will restrict your app in the browser pluging window and the popups > it spawns, if the kids in America are like the kids here in Brazil, > great chance that in the first minute the teacher turns its back, > they will all open another flap in their browsers and start > chatting, playing games, and just browse their fav sites, oh, and > email all their buddies, and there's nothing you'll be able to do. From jbondy at sover.net Sun Jun 5 11:50:15 2005 From: jbondy at sover.net (Jon) Date: Sun, 05 Jun 2005 11:50:15 -0400 Subject: help reading a text file Message-ID: <42A31F37.4010903@sover.net> when I say "put URL "file:" & fName into f", all I get in "f" is the name of the file, not its contents. Any clues? :) Jon From alex at tweedly.net Sun Jun 5 11:52:55 2005 From: alex at tweedly.net (Alex Tweedly) Date: Sun, 05 Jun 2005 16:52:55 +0100 Subject: help reading a text file In-Reply-To: <42A31F37.4010903@sover.net> References: <42A31F37.4010903@sover.net> Message-ID: <42A31FD7.9020404@tweedly.net> Jon wrote: > when I say "put URL "file:" & fName into f", all I get in "f" is the > name of the file, not its contents. > > Any clues? > > You need to say put URL ("file:" & fName) into f "URL" acts at higher precedence than "&" does !? -- Alex Tweedly http://www.tweedly.net -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.323 / Virus Database: 267.6.2 - Release Date: 04/06/2005 From bvg at mac.com Sun Jun 5 11:53:34 2005 From: bvg at mac.com (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Bj=F6rnke_von_Gierke?=) Date: Sun, 5 Jun 2005 17:53:34 +0200 Subject: help reading a text file In-Reply-To: <42A31F37.4010903@sover.net> References: <42A31F37.4010903@sover.net> Message-ID: <81216c188717faf00f01f8500b43a87b@mac.com> put URL ("file:" & fName) into f brackets On Jun 05 2005, at 17:50, Jon wrote: > when I say "put URL "file:" & fName into f", all I get in "f" is the > name of the file, not its contents. > > Any clues? > > :) > > Jon > > _______________________________________________ > use-revolution mailing list > use-revolution at lists.runrev.com > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution > > -- official ChatRev page: http://chatrev.cjb.net Chat with other RunRev developers: go stack URL "http://homepage.mac.com/bvg/chatrev1.3.rev" From jacque at hyperactivesw.com Sun Jun 5 11:55:16 2005 From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay) Date: Sun, 05 Jun 2005 10:55:16 -0500 Subject: running rev cgi on Mac OS 8.6 Personal web server? In-Reply-To: <20050605052629.62BFEB6B4@xprdmailfe14.nwk.excite.com> References: <20050605052629.62BFEB6B4@xprdmailfe14.nwk.excite.com> Message-ID: <42A32064.40907@hyperactivesw.com> On 6/5/05 12:26 AM, Thomas McCarthy wrote: > I've got an old beige 233 mac. I've got a fiber optic connection > (which I pay for off or on!) I've got a bunch of stacks I want to > share with other Latin teachers... > > Wouldn't it be very possible to clean up the old beige, make a > massive folder, put in all my stacks and the rev cgi engine in there, > start up personal web server and let it all run from there? > > I would need to note the ip address, right and share that with > others? anything else to consider? If you are looking to put the actual stacks on the web, this won't do it. As another thread is discussing, there is no way to run a stack in a browser. CGIs return HTML pages, not stacks. A Rev CGI can open and read a stack to get data out of it, but then it needs to format an HTML page to send back to the user's browser. The stacks it reads are only for reference, not for display. -- Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com From troy at rpsystems.net Sun Jun 5 11:59:20 2005 From: troy at rpsystems.net (Troy Rollins) Date: Sun, 5 Jun 2005 11:59:20 -0400 Subject: Dreamcard Roadster in the future??? In-Reply-To: <515DED5D-1A74-4A96-8EAE-7732BBCB4224@earthlink.net> References: <370162955ae35257bdd1c8a84ff62e8f@mac.com> <515DED5D-1A74-4A96-8EAE-7732BBCB4224@earthlink.net> Message-ID: <7b3706f260eed62966b4d94717f9f2a8@rpsystems.net> On Jun 5, 2005, at 11:49 AM, Marian Petrides wrote: > Mind you, like everyone on this list (I suspect), I'm well aware of > the limitations of web delivery. But the people above me who make the > decisions--the folks who are, frankly, only marginally computer > literate--still see it as a panacea. Some of them are "educable," > i.e. can be convinced of the reasons why truly interactive apps are > better developed as standalone apps, but many may never see the light. And often, they are quite correct. Standalones are not *always* a better solution. Frequently, that "convincing" is actually a self-serving way of saying "my development tool of choice has no support for browser delivery." Sadly, there are few tools which succeed at both forms of delivery. -- Troy RPSystems, Ltd. http://www.rpsystems.net From soapdog at mac.com Sun Jun 5 12:01:26 2005 From: soapdog at mac.com (Andre Garzia) Date: Sun, 5 Jun 2005 13:01:26 -0300 Subject: running rev cgi on Mac OS 8.6 Personal web server? In-Reply-To: <42A32064.40907@hyperactivesw.com> References: <20050605052629.62BFEB6B4@xprdmailfe14.nwk.excite.com> <42A32064.40907@hyperactivesw.com> Message-ID: On Jun 5, 2005, at 12:55 PM, J. Landman Gay wrote: > If you are looking to put the actual stacks on the web, this won't do > it. As another thread is discussing, there is no way to run a stack in > a browser. CGIs return HTML pages, not stacks. > > A Rev CGI can open and read a stack to get data out of it, but then it > needs to format an HTML page to send back to the user's browser. The > stacks it reads are only for reference, not for display. > Jacque, do you remember any MacOS Classic webserver that is able to run Rev CGIs? I am trying to remember here but nothing comes to mind.... The only thing I remember is that you can glue WebServer + Applescript middleware + Revolution app. cheers andre -- Andre Alves Garzia ? 2004 ? BRAZIL http://studio.soapdog.org From jbondy at sover.net Sun Jun 5 12:02:44 2005 From: jbondy at sover.net (Jon) Date: Sun, 05 Jun 2005 12:02:44 -0400 Subject: rev interferes with Mozilla ThunderBird Message-ID: <42A32224.4030203@sover.net> All hell broke loose last night. When I got up, Norton Antivirus claimed it was unable to complete a scan because it ran out of resources, and recommended uninstalling and reinstalling. And Mozilla Thunderbird suddenly claimed I had no email accounts and no saved messages. I rebooted. It took an hour or so to get the help I needed to restore ThunderBird (a preference file had been corrupted: the data was all there, just not properly connected). And Norton seems to be scanning along just fine, hour after hour. ThunderBird is behaving strangely, though. When I try to delete a message, it doesn't work most of the time. If I kill Rev, TB works just fine. TB did not work this way yesterday, and Rev is the only new software I've been using for the past week, so I'm tempted to "blame" Rev for the current rash of problems. Does any of this sound familiar to any of you? :) Jon From jbondy at sover.net Sun Jun 5 12:05:54 2005 From: jbondy at sover.net (Jon) Date: Sun, 05 Jun 2005 12:05:54 -0400 Subject: who's out there? Message-ID: <42A322E2.8030304@sover.net> I'm curious. How many of you use Rev to make a living, and how many of you just play with it. I'm at the point where I can't believe anyone could use it to do serious development. It is just too buggy, syntax idiosyncrasies and sloth aside. And how many of you successfully deploy cross-platform applications? That is my holy grail, but I'm so far away from that I can't even imagine it. Finally, are there any cross-platform dos and don'ts? I read that the Ask Files dialog is system-dependent at the Filters level. I understand why this might be necessary, but it sure shoots a hole in simple cross-platform applications. :) Jon From bvlahos at mac.com Sun Jun 5 12:10:02 2005 From: bvlahos at mac.com (Bill Vlahos) Date: Sun, 5 Jun 2005 09:10:02 -0700 Subject: running rev cgi on Mac OS 8.6 Personal web server? In-Reply-To: <4851994cea42c1b00c9dedb456b4b499@mac.com> References: <20050605052629.62BFEB6B4@xprdmailfe14.nwk.excite.com> <4851994cea42c1b00c9dedb456b4b499@mac.com> Message-ID: <56f989a71647e6eb575568356a479e22@mac.com> Ah. But you forget MacHTTP (http://www.machttp.org/) which is the original web server. At one time it was the most popular web server on the planet. MacHTTP is still available and works very well. However, Andre's got a pretty neat idea here (http://homepage.mac.com/soapdog/rev/revhttpd.html) so I would check it out too. It sounds like it would be a good fit for what you want to do. Bill Vlahos On Jun 5, 2005, at 8:35 AM, Andre Garzia wrote: > Wow classic machine, gotta love those! The only HTTPd server I > remember for classic (by 'I remember' read 'affordable') was > SocialEngs server which I think is out of business now. I'll propose > another option for you, not CGI based but RevHTTPd based. > > RevHTTPd is a webserver written in Rev, it's pure transcript based so > it will run on your machine fine. If you just want to share the > stacks, then that's plain easy, I can show you how to do it, you'll > launch the app, your mates will point their browsers to your IP and > they will see a nice page with your stacks available for download. If > you want to run the stacks on webspace, then you can do it too, just > tweek here and there and they will run on RevHTTPd, the new version > that will be debuted in RevConWest is source compatible with libCGI so > anything that runs in one will run in the other. I think it's pretty > cool and that you can use it. > > I can assist you on that if you explain me better what you're trying > to do. From soapdog at mac.com Sun Jun 5 12:11:42 2005 From: soapdog at mac.com (Andre Garzia) Date: Sun, 5 Jun 2005 13:11:42 -0300 Subject: Dreamcard Roadster in the future??? In-Reply-To: <515DED5D-1A74-4A96-8EAE-7732BBCB4224@earthlink.net> References: <370162955ae35257bdd1c8a84ff62e8f@mac.com> <515DED5D-1A74-4A96-8EAE-7732BBCB4224@earthlink.net> Message-ID: On Jun 5, 2005, at 12:49 PM, Marian Petrides wrote: > All of this is likely true, but there are educational markets (higher > ed, adult distance learning, etc.) where the "panacea" of web based > course materials is still in vogue and where it might actually work. > > Mind you, like everyone on this list (I suspect), I'm well aware of > the limitations of web delivery. But the people above me who make the > decisions--the folks who are, frankly, only marginally computer > literate--still see it as a panacea. Some of them are "educable," > i.e. can be convinced of the reasons why truly interactive apps are > better developed as standalone apps, but many may never see the light. > > M Marian I used to study in a good high tech university which was a private and expensive one (called puc, the catholical university), they had no problem there with rich clients and were all for experimentation and research, time passed and I transfered to a federal one (public ones are better here and they are free). In my new university we have the same marinally computer literate folks that you have in there. Brazil is a huge country and we're now forced by the federal gov to create a distance learning tool for those in rural areas. If you could just see the monster they created, imagine this: HTML + Microsoft Word documents. I tried to talk to them, it was something along this lines: DIRECTOR: "So you think you have a better solution?" ME: "Yes, I do. In PUC we had a very high level tool which is far more advanced than this one and far easier to work out" DIRECTOR: "But it runs in a browser?" ME: "No, it runs on itself." DIRECTOR: "It needs to run in a browser!" ME: "You know, browsers are not operating systems, things should not need to run in a browser..." DIRECTOR: "Our current solution runs in a browser." ME: "Your current solution is an index of word documents and email chatting. That is not a solution and will be a problem soon." DIRECTOR: "If it does not runs in a browser, we're not interested." So I guess the problem is true everywere, here they got the national motto of suporting linux and the OSS crowd, so they migrated my campus all to linux. Now think, how a film school student is able to edit videos in linux and how a jornalist student is able to format a magazine/jornal without pagemaker/inDesign/Quark!? I don't have any solution for those cases... andre -- Andre Alves Garzia ? 2004 Soap Dog Studios - BRAZIL http://studio.soapdog.org From mwieder at ahsoftware.net Sun Jun 5 12:15:33 2005 From: mwieder at ahsoftware.net (Mark Wieder) Date: Sun, 5 Jun 2005 09:15:33 -0700 Subject: Dreamcard Roadster in the future??? In-Reply-To: <370162955ae35257bdd1c8a84ff62e8f@mac.com> References: <370162955ae35257bdd1c8a84ff62e8f@mac.com> Message-ID: <491152326.20050605091533@ahsoftware.net> Andre- Sunday, June 5, 2005, 8:29:32 AM, you wrote: AG> the school was motive enough for subversion and for us to hide DOOM AG> copies in the machines and play without sound while the teachers tried Sometime in the 80s I worked a vax contract where most of us logged in remotely to do our work. The boss would check once in a while to make sure that we were logged in and what we were running. Some of the contractors (not me, of course) had renamed the game of "rogue" to "vi", so that's what would show up as the current app. The boss was pretty smart, though, and caught on before too long. -- -Mark Wieder mwieder at ahsoftware.net From soapdog at mac.com Sun Jun 5 12:18:16 2005 From: soapdog at mac.com (Andre Garzia) Date: Sun, 5 Jun 2005 13:18:16 -0300 Subject: who's out there? In-Reply-To: <42A322E2.8030304@sover.net> References: <42A322E2.8030304@sover.net> Message-ID: <5e877f7e1067b9bf45c1748647f03733@mac.com> On Jun 5, 2005, at 1:05 PM, Jon wrote: > I'm curious. How many of you use Rev to make a living, and how many > of you just play with it. I'm at the point where I can't believe > anyone could use it to do serious development. It is just too buggy, > syntax idiosyncrasies and sloth aside. > > And how many of you successfully deploy cross-platform applications? > That is my holy grail, but I'm so far away from that I can't even > imagine it. > > Finally, are there any cross-platform dos and don'ts? I read that the > Ask Files dialog is system-dependent at the Filters level. I > understand why this might be necessary, but it sure shoots a hole in > simple cross-platform applications. > :) > > Jon Jon, Rev and Rev coded solutions are now my main source of incomme. Yes, Rev has some glitches, but one can work them out fine. There are many folks on this list that are deploying rev solution to many high level clients. Check altuits page and check hemingway app. For one that is used to more 'formal' (man, I lack the adjetive) progamming languages like C, Pascal, Java, the xTalk languages might first prove very strange, but with time, one learns to trully like this thing. I can't even think of coding in C anymore. As for the crossplatform stuff, I am delivering apps for win32 but I am coding them in a Mac, it works fine for me. And for the do's and dont'ts, there are more skilled people in this list than me, they will point out. Andre > _______________________________________________ > use-revolution mailing list > use-revolution at lists.runrev.com > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution > > -- Andre Alves Garzia ? 2004 ? BRAZIL http://studio.soapdog.org From soapdog at mac.com Sun Jun 5 12:19:56 2005 From: soapdog at mac.com (Andre Garzia) Date: Sun, 5 Jun 2005 13:19:56 -0300 Subject: running rev cgi on Mac OS 8.6 Personal web server? In-Reply-To: <56f989a71647e6eb575568356a479e22@mac.com> References: <20050605052629.62BFEB6B4@xprdmailfe14.nwk.excite.com> <4851994cea42c1b00c9dedb456b4b499@mac.com> <56f989a71647e6eb575568356a479e22@mac.com> Message-ID: <3fc7b3bae41b0bcec44fa7f04ceccad9@mac.com> On Jun 5, 2005, at 1:10 PM, Bill Vlahos wrote: > Ah. But you forget MacHTTP (http://www.machttp.org/) which is the > original web server. At one time it was the most popular web server on > the planet. MacHTTP is still available and works very well. > > However, Andre's got a pretty neat idea here > (http://homepage.mac.com/soapdog/rev/revhttpd.html) so I would check > it out too. It sounds like it would be a good fit for what you want to > do. > That RevHTTPd page is pretty outdated, it's from the first version, we passed 3 full rewrites in the mean time. I'll coin a new page soon with the new release. Thanks for looking there. Andre > Bill Vlahos -- Andre Alves Garzia ? 2004 ? BRAZIL http://studio.soapdog.org From mwieder at ahsoftware.net Sun Jun 5 12:23:47 2005 From: mwieder at ahsoftware.net (Mark Wieder) Date: Sun, 5 Jun 2005 09:23:47 -0700 Subject: help reading a text file In-Reply-To: <42A31FD7.9020404@tweedly.net> References: <42A31F37.4010903@sover.net> <42A31FD7.9020404@tweedly.net> Message-ID: <1541646187.20050605092347@ahsoftware.net> Jon- Sunday, June 5, 2005, 8:52:55 AM, Alex wrote: AT> put URL ("file:" & fName) into f AT> "URL" acts at higher precedence than "&" does !? Exactly. You need to tell the URL operator where to stop parsing. What's happening without the parentheses is put URL "file:" into f -- which is empty put fName after f -- there's your filename -- -Mark Wieder mwieder at ahsoftware.net From troy at rpsystems.net Sun Jun 5 12:23:15 2005 From: troy at rpsystems.net (Troy Rollins) Date: Sun, 5 Jun 2005 12:23:15 -0400 Subject: who's out there? In-Reply-To: <42A322E2.8030304@sover.net> References: <42A322E2.8030304@sover.net> Message-ID: <88b6ba1dfca5bdf47e1a79e762fa51f2@rpsystems.net> On Jun 5, 2005, at 12:05 PM, Jon wrote: > I'm curious. How many of you use Rev to make a living, and how many > of you just play with it. I'm at the point where I can't believe > anyone could use it to do serious development. It is just too buggy, > syntax idiosyncrasies and sloth aside. I too am an occasional detractor. Rev has its issues. But the truth is, there are quite a few people doing serious development with Rev, and quite successfully. I myself do OK with - cross platform, and rather "serious" in terms of complexity. It *can* be done... with a bit of hair-pulling, and a fair share of workarounds. -- Troy RPSystems, Ltd. http://www.rpsystems.net From mwieder at ahsoftware.net Sun Jun 5 12:28:49 2005 From: mwieder at ahsoftware.net (Mark Wieder) Date: Sun, 5 Jun 2005 09:28:49 -0700 Subject: help with trivial syntax In-Reply-To: <2CE140EC-1493-4696-802C-F05E3F38C286@major-k.de> References: <42A3191D.5020601@sover.net> <2CE140EC-1493-4696-802C-F05E3F38C286@major-k.de> Message-ID: <721948441.20050605092849@ahsoftware.net> Klaus- Sunday, June 5, 2005, 8:38:12 AM, you wrote: KM> Hi Jon, >> Is this syntactically correct? >> "if not there is a file fName then" KM> Yes, but sounds horrible, i know :-D Yes, but still easier to read than if (0 >= open(fName, O_RDONLY)) -- -Mark Wieder mwieder at ahsoftware.net From kray at sonsothunder.com Sun Jun 5 12:29:13 2005 From: kray at sonsothunder.com (Ken Ray) Date: Sun, 05 Jun 2005 12:29:13 -0400 Subject: Dreamcard Roadster in the future??? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: > I think it may actually be better if RunRev wants to consider running > content in a plugin that it consider outputing stacks to Flash and running > them with *that* plugin (since it is so ubiquitous) rather than creating > their own plugin. What I meant was that *if* RunRev wants to make a plugin (not something I'm recommend an honestly I've never needed), it should look to not make a native plugin but to output to something that is already out there and all over the place. From the posts I've been reading, Java may be the best candidate, but personally I don't think they need a plugin at all. Ken Ray Sons of Thunder Software Email: kray at sonsothunder.com Web Site: http://www.sonsothunder.com/ From kray at sonsothunder.com Sun Jun 5 12:30:54 2005 From: kray at sonsothunder.com (Ken Ray) Date: Sun, 05 Jun 2005 12:30:54 -0400 Subject: rev interferes with Mozilla ThunderBird In-Reply-To: <42A32224.4030203@sover.net> Message-ID: > Does any of this sound familiar to any of you? Not to me... and AFAIK Rev doesn't "reach out" to any applications while it's running, unless you do something like "revMail" which would call your default mail client. Ken Ray Sons of Thunder Software Email: kray at sonsothunder.com Web Site: http://www.sonsothunder.com/ From kray at sonsothunder.com Sun Jun 5 12:37:29 2005 From: kray at sonsothunder.com (Ken Ray) Date: Sun, 05 Jun 2005 12:37:29 -0400 Subject: who's out there? In-Reply-To: <42A322E2.8030304@sover.net> Message-ID: > I'm curious. How many of you use Rev to make a living, and how many of > you just play with it. I'm at the point where I can't believe anyone > could use it to do serious development. It is just too buggy, syntax > idiosyncrasies and sloth aside. > > And how many of you successfully deploy cross-platform applications? > That is my holy grail, but I'm so far away from that I can't even > imagine it. I use it to make a living - in fact my two biggest clients have x-platform apps based on the Rev engine. (The reason I say that is that I use both the Revolution IDE and the old MetaCard IDE for development, but they both use the same engine.) > Finally, are there any cross-platform dos and don'ts? Well, if you're going to be at Monterey, there's a session on this. ;-) > I read that the > Ask Files dialog is system-dependent at the Filters level. I understand > why this might be necessary, but it sure shoots a hole in simple > cross-platform applications. It depends on how you look at it... there are certain things that are platform-specific, and all you need to do is something like this: switch (the platform) case "MacOS" -- do Mac-specific stuff break case "Win32" -- do Win-specific stuff break end switch For example, manipulating the Registry is Windows-only; using AppleScript is Mac-only; in the case of the answer file dialog there are different parameters for Mac or Windows because Mac files are being filtered by type & creator code (something Windows doesn't have), and Windows files are filtered by extension (something that many Mac files in OS 9 don't have, although with OS X they do). I believe that the next version of Rev should have a homogenized 'answer file' command so you can use extensions and/or type&creator for filtering. Ken Ray Sons of Thunder Software Email: kray at sonsothunder.com Web Site: http://www.sonsothunder.com/ From mwieder at ahsoftware.net Sun Jun 5 12:39:05 2005 From: mwieder at ahsoftware.net (Mark Wieder) Date: Sun, 5 Jun 2005 09:39:05 -0700 Subject: bug In-Reply-To: <42A301C7.5070400@tweedly.net> References: <42A19E7A.8040501@sover.net><42A1EF1D.80302@sover.net><42A1F904.7090408@hyperactivesw.com> <42A22CDD.1080706@sover.net><42A2461A.3010704@tweedly.net> <42A2E30E.8030003@tweedly.net> <014201c569cd$ff833c10$0100000a@super> <42A301C7.5070400@tweedly.net> Message-ID: <1402564617.20050605093905@ahsoftware.net> Alex- Sunday, June 5, 2005, 6:44:39 AM, you wrote: >>> If someone could confirm this, I'll add it to Mark's BZ 2868 >>> Or if you can't confirm this, I'll find out what I'm doing wrong :-) Nope. Still works for me (win2k) in either scenario. But you're right about save not being available while the Script Editor has focus. I'm not sure whether or not that's a bug - I think it is, but it's at least annoying. I had noticed before that saving wasn't enabled in certain situations, but hadn't narrowed it down. You want to do the honors here? -- -Mark Wieder mwieder at ahsoftware.net From kray at sonsothunder.com Sun Jun 5 12:41:37 2005 From: kray at sonsothunder.com (Ken Ray) Date: Sun, 05 Jun 2005 12:41:37 -0400 Subject: change name of standalone In-Reply-To: <0ee4e6ad5d85dec264cd614949f5c280@maseurope.net> Message-ID: > In the script of the main stack > > on openStack > if the target is me then set the label of stack "howdy" to field > "appname" of stack "boabieprefs" > pass openStack > end openStack > > Bear in mind that the openStack message will likely be sent to the main > stack when any of the sub stacks is opened, hence checking the target. Actually, if you're putting this code in the stack script you'll need to say: if the owner of the target is me then ... since the message hits the card and then travels to the stack. Ken Ray Sons of Thunder Software Email: kray at sonsothunder.com Web Site: http://www.sonsothunder.com/ From mpetrides at earthlink.net Sun Jun 5 12:41:14 2005 From: mpetrides at earthlink.net (Marian Petrides) Date: Sun, 5 Jun 2005 11:41:14 -0500 Subject: Dreamcard Roadster in the future??? In-Reply-To: References: <370162955ae35257bdd1c8a84ff62e8f@mac.com> <515DED5D-1A74-4A96-8EAE-7732BBCB4224@earthlink.net> Message-ID: <9A14723C-15AC-4DCE-98C7-DBE88FFCEE6B@earthlink.net> Brain transplant, perhaps? ;-))) On Jun 5, 2005, at 11:11 AM, Andre Garzia wrote: > I don't have any solution for those cases... > From klaus at major-k.de Sun Jun 5 12:43:28 2005 From: klaus at major-k.de (Klaus Major) Date: Sun, 5 Jun 2005 18:43:28 +0200 Subject: help with trivial syntax In-Reply-To: <721948441.20050605092849@ahsoftware.net> References: <42A3191D.5020601@sover.net> <2CE140EC-1493-4696-802C-F05E3F38C286@major-k.de> <721948441.20050605092849@ahsoftware.net> Message-ID: Hi Mark, > Klaus- > > Sunday, June 5, 2005, 8:38:12 AM, you wrote: > KM> Hi Jon, >>> Is this syntactically correct? >>> "if not there is a file fName then" > KM> Yes, but sounds horrible, i know :-D > Yes, but still easier to read than > if (0 >= open(fName, O_RDONLY)) You BET! :-) > -Mark Wieder > mwieder at ahsoftware.net Regards Klaus Major klaus at major-k.de http://www.major-k.de From mwieder at ahsoftware.net Sun Jun 5 12:45:30 2005 From: mwieder at ahsoftware.net (Mark Wieder) Date: Sun, 5 Jun 2005 09:45:30 -0700 Subject: OT: but interesting to Mac users In-Reply-To: <33F46FBA-BB63-4B1C-A398-8D1CC9C7B6B9@danshafer.com> References: <42A1988E.4020106@tweedly.net> <33F46FBA-BB63-4B1C-A398-8D1CC9C7B6B9@danshafer.com> Message-ID: <342949581.20050605094530@ahsoftware.net> Dan- Saturday, June 4, 2005, 5:41:00 PM, you wrote: DS> Since this is so far OT, I decided not to reply in detail here. If DS> you want to know what I think (and frankly I can't think of a lot of DS> reasons you should), check out my blog: DS> http://www.eclecticity.com/.3c63d717 I'll go out on a limb here and say I agree with all that with the addition that my guess is that this is Apple laying a smokescreen by leaking false info to selected press. Whether it's intentionally a red herring to cover up an actual bomshell announcement is something we'll find out on Monday. But after the recent spate of leaks before major product announcements I think someone got smart and decided to throw crumbs to the press to lead them on a wild goose chase. -- -Mark Wieder mwieder at ahsoftware.net From mwieder at ahsoftware.net Sun Jun 5 12:48:44 2005 From: mwieder at ahsoftware.net (Mark Wieder) Date: Sun, 5 Jun 2005 09:48:44 -0700 Subject: rev interferes with Mozilla ThunderBird In-Reply-To: <42A32224.4030203@sover.net> References: <42A32224.4030203@sover.net> Message-ID: <1273143169.20050605094844@ahsoftware.net> Jon- Sunday, June 5, 2005, 9:02:44 AM, you wrote: Doesn't sound familiar to me either, but personally I wouldn't let any Norton products run on my computers. If you get things stable again my advice would be to wipe them off your hard disk and install something reasonable like NOD32. -- -Mark Wieder mwieder at ahsoftware.net From soapdog at mac.com Sun Jun 5 12:49:03 2005 From: soapdog at mac.com (Andre Garzia) Date: Sun, 5 Jun 2005 13:49:03 -0300 Subject: OT: but interesting to Mac users In-Reply-To: <342949581.20050605094530@ahsoftware.net> References: <42A1988E.4020106@tweedly.net> <33F46FBA-BB63-4B1C-A398-8D1CC9C7B6B9@danshafer.com> <342949581.20050605094530@ahsoftware.net> Message-ID: On Jun 5, 2005, at 1:45 PM, Mark Wieder wrote: > Apple laying a smokescreen by > leaking false info to selected press. that's the most sane version of the thing I heard so far.... thank you Mark, I was praying every day for the computers Gods no to allow a switch from PPC to anything... (could this be a contract for wireless chips and stuff like that instead of cpu chips...) -- Andre Alves Garzia ? 2004 ? BRAZIL http://studio.soapdog.org From ralf at dol.net Sun Jun 5 13:06:39 2005 From: ralf at dol.net (Ralph R. Forehand) Date: Sun, 5 Jun 2005 13:06:39 -0400 Subject: who's out there? In-Reply-To: <5e877f7e1067b9bf45c1748647f03733@mac.com> References: <42A322E2.8030304@sover.net> <5e877f7e1067b9bf45c1748647f03733@mac.com> Message-ID: >On Jun 5, 2005, at 1:05 PM, Jon wrote: > >>I'm curious. How many of you use Rev to make a living, and how many of you just play with it. Jon, I'm one of those that just play with Rev. Dreamcard. Being retired I have no desire to go commercial with any of my projects. I'm a long, long, time programmer and HyperCard user and "devotee". I've often said "If I could have only one program on my Mac, it would be HyperCard". I've switched to Rev. Dreamcard because HyperCard's days are numbered on Macs. I'm still running OS 9 (and dragging my feet as long as possible on converting to OS X), but do need to convert some of my H/C stacks over to a more current and evolving application. I briefly tried SuperCard and didn't like it - particularly their H/C conversion procedure and resulting code. I've found Rev. much more to my type programming approach than SuperCard, and an easier to use H/C stack conversion procedure and resulting code. Plus I'm starting to get very comfortable with Transcript as I learn more. I find this mail-list extremely helpful with problems i encounter during my Rev. Dreamcard "newbee" phase. Also right now I'm seeing what I can initiate toward forming Rev. User Groups (RUGs) in the USA. Trust the above is helpful. TAKE CARE, Ralph From ralf at dol.net Sun Jun 5 13:13:01 2005 From: ralf at dol.net (Ralph R. Forehand) Date: Sun, 5 Jun 2005 13:13:01 -0400 Subject: who's out there? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Ken wrote: >Well, if you're going to be at Monterey, there's a session on this. ;-) Monterey?? Info on this Conference and/or URL?? Thanks in Advance, Ralph From Buddyb3ar22 at aol.com Sun Jun 5 13:27:23 2005 From: Buddyb3ar22 at aol.com (Buddyb3ar22 at aol.com) Date: Sun, 5 Jun 2005 13:27:23 EDT Subject: Volume control Question Message-ID: I was wondering is there was a way to control the volume of something with a slider so that if the slider was one the value 0 there would be no sound, and if it was on 100, the sounds was as high as it could go For the script, I tried something like "set the playLoudness of player 1 to value" Which obviously didn't work, and so yeah, I'm asking for your help... again From soapdog at mac.com Sun Jun 5 13:27:53 2005 From: soapdog at mac.com (Andre Garzia) Date: Sun, 5 Jun 2005 14:27:53 -0300 Subject: who's out there? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <57de3ab825418dd82498387fb6816514@mac.com> On Jun 5, 2005, at 2:13 PM, Ralph R. Forehand wrote: > Monterey?? Info on this Conference and/or URL?? > > Thanks in Advance, > Ralph > Ralph, this will be a hell of a conference, I am comming all the way from brazil to it. the url is: http://www.altuit.com/webs/altuit/RevConWest/ if you happen to be there, we'll all get togheter cheers andre -- Andre Alves Garzia ? 2004 Soap Dog Studios - BRAZIL http://studio.soapdog.org From jbondy at sover.net Sun Jun 5 13:27:50 2005 From: jbondy at sover.net (Jon) Date: Sun, 05 Jun 2005 13:27:50 -0400 Subject: rev interferes with Mozilla ThunderBird In-Reply-To: <1273143169.20050605094844@ahsoftware.net> References: <42A32224.4030203@sover.net> <1273143169.20050605094844@ahsoftware.net> Message-ID: <42A33616.5050503@sover.net> Mark: Any particular reason why you use/like NOD32? :) Jon Mark Wieder wrote: >Jon- > >Sunday, June 5, 2005, 9:02:44 AM, you wrote: > >Doesn't sound familiar to me either, but personally I wouldn't let any >Norton products run on my computers. If you get things stable again my >advice would be to wipe them off your hard disk and install something >reasonable like NOD32. > > > From dsc at swcp.com Sun Jun 5 13:30:43 2005 From: dsc at swcp.com (Dar Scott) Date: Sun, 5 Jun 2005 11:30:43 -0600 Subject: who's out there? In-Reply-To: <42A322E2.8030304@sover.net> References: <42A322E2.8030304@sover.net> Message-ID: On Jun 5, 2005, at 10:05 AM, Jon wrote: > I'm curious. How many of you use Rev to make a living, and how many > of you just play with it. I'm at the point where I can't believe > anyone could use it to do serious development. It is just too buggy, > syntax idiosyncrasies and sloth aside. I use Rev to make a living. Most of my income comes from helping those who "use it to do serious development". I think that means that I do serious development. My and my Rev are mutually supporting; as my Rev helps me build things, I encourage my Rev grow and mature. Dar -- ********************************************** DSC (Dar Scott Consulting & Dar's Lab) http://www.swcp.com/dsc/ RevCon Speaker ********************************************** From rev at armbase.com Sun Jun 5 13:32:22 2005 From: rev at armbase.com (Bob Hartley) Date: Sun, 5 Jun 2005 18:32:22 +0100 Subject: change name of standalone In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: You wrote: > > In the script of the main stack > > OK Guys. I got it sorted. For those searching the archive later, her eis what I ended up with. > Actually, if you're putting this code in the stack script you'll need to > say: > > if the owner of the target is me then ... Instead of having 2 main stacks I made one main stack and put boabieprefs as a substack. OK so far. I used the script that failed previously on openStack set the label of stack "howdy" to field "appname" of stack "boabieprefs" pass openStack end openStack And this worked OK I now saved as a standalone and "saved the substacks as individual stacks" so they could eb edited. Then I put a button on the boabieprefs stack that said save this stack. it is in my userspace on revonline (user NINIJSKY) Thanks for all the help. cheers bob > > since the message hits the card and then travels to the stack. > > Ken Ray Sons of Thunder Software Email: kray at sonsothunder.com Web Site: > http://www.sonsothunder.com/ > > > > _______________________________________________ use-revolution mailing > list use-revolution at lists.runrev.com > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution > From klaus at major-k.de Sun Jun 5 13:33:23 2005 From: klaus at major-k.de (Klaus Major) Date: Sun, 5 Jun 2005 19:33:23 +0200 Subject: Volume control Question In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <9CACB0BB-FC23-4B7E-99FF-EA6A7FABE190@major-k.de> Hi Vuddy, > I was wondering is there was a way to control the volume of > something with a > slider so that if the slider was one the value 0 there would be no > sound, and > if it was on 100, the sounds was as high as it could go > > For the script, I tried something like "set the playLoudness of > player 1 to > value" Which obviously didn't work, and so yeah, I'm asking for > your help... > again put this into the script of your scrollbar: on scrollbardrag t_value set the playloudness of player 1 to t_value end scrollbardrag Hope that helps... Best Klaus Major klaus at major-k.de http://www.major-k.de From ridge11103 at btinternet.com Sun Jun 5 13:39:34 2005 From: ridge11103 at btinternet.com (John Ridge) Date: Sun, 05 Jun 2005 18:39:34 +0100 Subject: dump newbie image questiosn In-Reply-To: <429E0A71.2050801@sover.net> Message-ID: Did you get any response to this query? If so, I've missed it - no surprise, given the volume! I got interested in the issue, and have been playing with the lockLoc property of the image. I do find the language confusing - the "image" is the control within which you display a JPEG (say). When lockLoc is true, the image (the control) stays as is, and the picture is forced to fit within it - which can lead to massive distortion, of course. When lockLoc is false (the default) the picture arrives in its native size - so your image may turn out to be a small window into it. You can grab the image and slide it around under the window. I've also done a ShrinkToFit handler, but I bet there are better ways of doing the job! If you're interested, I can send the stack to the User Space, or somewhere... Regards, John -- From: Jon Reply-To: How to use Revolution Date: Wed, 01 Jun 2005 15:20:17 -0400 To: Revolution List Subject: dump newbie image questiosn Is there any way to specify the magnification ratio of the image (the ratio between the native/intrinsic size and the displayed size)? One might want to alter this ratio in order to "zoom" or "unzoom" an image. Note that I do NOT want a separate "zoom" window or magnifier. I want to take a image and either display it to "fit" in a window, or display it "normally" (1:1). Is there any way to specify the displayed width of an image independent of the actual width of the image (in pixels)? One might want to do this to "fit" an image into a fixed screen space, even if it is larger or smaller (in pixels) than the screen space. I've tried to manipulate real (large) images using the pixels, and have found Revolution to be stunningly slow (perhaps 100 times slower than native code). Am I doing it "wrong", or is Revolution aimed at doing things other than manipulating millions of pixels in tight loops? Thanks! Jon From jbondy at sover.net Sun Jun 5 13:40:31 2005 From: jbondy at sover.net (Jon) Date: Sun, 05 Jun 2005 13:40:31 -0400 Subject: chunk question Message-ID: <42A3390F.6070704@sover.net> How do I say something like "put char 7 to END of str into var" That is, how do I specify "to end of string"? :) Jon From bvg at mac.com Sun Jun 5 13:45:15 2005 From: bvg at mac.com (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Bj=F6rnke_von_Gierke?=) Date: Sun, 5 Jun 2005 19:45:15 +0200 Subject: chunk question In-Reply-To: <42A3390F.6070704@sover.net> References: <42A3390F.6070704@sover.net> Message-ID: <126a43a854f65fa84df711e25ec2b0ae@mac.com> put char 7 to -1 of str into var check also out the chunk expression topic in the help menu On Jun 05 2005, at 19:40, Jon wrote: > How do I say something like > > "put char 7 to END of str into var" > > That is, how do I specify "to end of string"? > > :) > > Jon -- official ChatRev page: http://chatrev.cjb.net Chat with other RunRev developers: go stack URL "http://homepage.mac.com/bvg/chatrev1.3.rev" From scott at tactilemedia.com Sun Jun 5 14:01:35 2005 From: scott at tactilemedia.com (Scott Rossi) Date: Sun, 05 Jun 2005 11:01:35 -0700 Subject: Volume control Question In-Reply-To: <9CACB0BB-FC23-4B7E-99FF-EA6A7FABE190@major-k.de> Message-ID: >> I was wondering is there was a way to control the volume of >> something with a >> slider so that if the slider was one the value 0 there would be no >> sound, and >> if it was on 100, the sounds was as high as it could go > put this into the script of your scrollbar: > > on scrollbardrag t_value > set the playloudness of player 1 to t_value > end scrollbardrag Also note that "playLoudness" can set the volume of a player object itself (set the playLoudness of player 1) as well as setting the overall volume of the system globally (set the playLoudness to 50). As I recall, the latter sets the overall system volume level on MacOS and sets the Wave volume level on Windows. Regards, Scott Rossi Creative Director Tactile Media, Multimedia & Design ----- E: scott at tactilemedia.com W: http://www.tactilemedia.com From jbv.silences at Club-Internet.fr Sun Jun 5 05:14:43 2005 From: jbv.silences at Club-Internet.fr (jbv) Date: Sun, 05 Jun 2005 11:14:43 +0200 Subject: Trying to code the fastest algorithm... Message-ID: <42A2C27F.73F0549D@Club-Internet.fr> Hi list, I'm trying to build the fastest possible algorithm for the following task : I have a variable containing reference words; each "word" in this variable is considered as an item. I also have a list of "sentences" (each sentence being a list of "words" separated by spaces), 1 per line. Each sentence can contain 1 or more words from the reference, as well as other words. I need to determine for each sentence, which words from the reference are included in it, in which order, and output a list of offsets. For example : reference variable : W1,W2,W3,W4 sentence 1 : Wx W2 Wy Wz W3 output : 2,3 And last but not least, I need to keep only sentences that contain more than 1 word from the reference. Here's the fastest script I managed to code : put "" into newList repeat for each line j in mySentences put j into a replace " " with itemdelimiter in a put "" into b repeat for each item i in it get itemoffset(i,myReference) if it>0 then put it & itemdelimiter after b end if end repeat if b contains itemdelimiter then delete last char of b put b & cr after newList end if end repeat But I was wondering if there was any faster approach... Thanks, JB From JimAultWins at yahoo.com Sun Jun 5 14:12:51 2005 From: JimAultWins at yahoo.com (Jim Ault) Date: Sun, 05 Jun 2005 11:12:51 -0700 Subject: who's out there? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: > On Jun 5, 2005, at 10:05 AM, Jon wrote: > >> I'm curious. How many of you use Rev to make a living, and how many >> of you just play with it. I am using Rev to build a central processing system for graphics and web content. I am a previous Hypercard guy, so Transcript was fairly easy and I knew what I wanted to achieve. My collection of Rev tools will not be commercial, but the result of using them will. My basic business will be to generate professional-style web content as Flash movies. These movies include (jpgs prepped by Photoshop), combined with ('stage directions' written to a text file by Rev).., all of which are read by a Flash SWF at runtime in a browser. My collection of programs that are directed by Rev via Applescript is (Photoshop, Mac OSX shell, Excel, BBEdit, Entourage, Transmit) Rev is my core App. It is my central database, toolbox, file handling, processing logic, error checking, and log file creation software. Quite the Swiss army knife of quick, easy software development. I will also be adding contact list, client-time logging and project tracking/billing as time goes by, and, yes, SQL. Before the end of June I should be up, running, and have many galleries showing examples of my work. Jim Ault Las Vegas Happily building a business with Rev every day of the week. Rev 2.5.1 on Mac OSX 10.3.9, virtually no crashes or lost work since installing 2.5.1 two months ago :-) From see3d at writeme.com Sun Jun 5 14:26:28 2005 From: see3d at writeme.com (Dennis Brown) Date: Sun, 05 Jun 2005 14:26:28 -0400 Subject: who's out there? In-Reply-To: <42A322E2.8030304@sover.net> References: <42A322E2.8030304@sover.net> Message-ID: <499158B0-702A-48A5-B844-54C83F9F50D4@writeme.com> Jon, I am retired. I decided to use Rev as my language of choice for doing all those programming projects that I never had time to get to before (ha,ha, I'm busier now than ever). My project list is varied from home automation to food databases, and I do conceive of free distribution of some of my stuff cross platform via DreamCard. However, my big project right now is only indirectly for me. I am working on a very large historical database to generate tools that run statistical analysis to discover new relationships. I am doing this project for a friend that will use it in support a worthwhile charity. I use a Mac and he uses PCs. I can see the need for major improvements in the IDE. A professional can learn to work around quirks and bugs. My beef is that it is the casual user --the ones that can make or break a company by virtue of their numbers --that will not put up with getting slapped 4 or 5 times on his first day of use. He will give up and look elsewhere unless he has a lot of support --like he would get on this list. The core functionality of the IDE should be intuitive, simple and forgiving of the fumbles of the novice. Advanced features should be enabled modularly as one learns the basics. IDE/tutorial in one. Do this and the revolution will begin in earnest. Dennis On Jun 5, 2005, at 12:05 PM, Jon wrote: > I'm curious. How many of you use Rev to make a living, and how > many of you just play with it. From Buddyb3ar22 at aol.com Sun Jun 5 14:30:12 2005 From: Buddyb3ar22 at aol.com (Buddyb3ar22 at aol.com) Date: Sun, 5 Jun 2005 14:30:12 EDT Subject: Changing appearence Question Message-ID: I was wondering, if there was a way to change the appearance of a slider bar? Or does it have to be like its original look? From ambassador at fourthworld.com Sun Jun 5 14:32:02 2005 From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin) Date: Sun, 05 Jun 2005 11:32:02 -0700 Subject: who's out there? In-Reply-To: <42A322E2.8030304@sover.net> References: <42A322E2.8030304@sover.net> Message-ID: <42A34522.7000704@fourthworld.com> Jon wrote: > I'm curious. How many of you use Rev to make a living, and how many of > you just play with it. I've been making a living with xTalks for 11 years as of 4/4, and almost exclusively with the Rev engine (going back to when it was called "MetaCard") since '98. > I'm at the point where I can't believe anyone > could use it to do serious development. It is just too buggy, syntax > idiosyncrasies and sloth aside. I haven't yet seen the development tool with no bugs, and fortunately with Rev nearly all can be worked around; there are few true show-stoppers, unlike bad headers that have shipped with CodeWarrior, and other things you'll find in reading the dev lists for other products. But unlike those other products, Rev is among the very few IDEs that truly eats its own dogfood: it's written in Transcript, which means it's fully modifiable, extensible, and even replaceable. For example, while I make my living with the engine I rarely use the Rev IDE at all, being one of the ol' timers who still use the MetaCard IDE. Other IDEs are possible, a couple in the works, and there are dozens of tools available as plugins that work in any of these IDEs. So if you find RunRev troublesome but are interested in Transcript, with a few minutes online you can assemble a toolkit to fit your personal preferences. > And how many of you successfully deploy cross-platform applications? I ship an average of at least one commercial cross-platform application every month for the last several years. > That is my holy grail, but I'm so far away from that I can't even > imagine it. Imagining it's the easy part. Making it's not much harder. The tough part is testing it throughly. :) What issues have you encountered shipping yours? As with learning any new tool, you'll find this discussion list community to be your most valuable resource. Feel free to take advantage of us. :) > Finally, are there any cross-platform dos and don'ts? There are, and Ken, Jacque, and I will be doing a panel called "Cross-Platform Gotchas" at RevCon West in two weeks: We'll post our notes somewhere on the web so those who couldn't make it can get at least an overview of what's covered. > I read that the > Ask Files dialog is system-dependent at the Filters level. I understand > why this might be necessary, but it sure shoots a hole in simple > cross-platform applications. > :) Mac OS, OS X, and Windows each uses a different means of identifying file types. It's not possible for RunRev to know all the file possible combinations of file types you might want to filter, but fortunately it's not too hard to write a function to handle any specific type of file you need for both platforms. I'll cover this in-depth at an upcoming article for revJournal.com soon, but here's a quick example to get you started: function MyGetFile put "Select a document:" into tPrompt if the platform is "MacOS" then answer file tPrompt of type "MFIL" --< your file type else answer file tPrompt with filter "*.mfl" --< your file extension end if if it is empty then exit to top return it end MyGetFile -- Richard Gaskin Fourth World Media Corporation __________________________________________________ Rev tools and more: http://www.fourthworld.com/rev From ambassador at fourthworld.com Sun Jun 5 14:34:22 2005 From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin) Date: Sun, 05 Jun 2005 11:34:22 -0700 Subject: rev interferes with Mozilla ThunderBird In-Reply-To: <42A32224.4030203@sover.net> References: <42A32224.4030203@sover.net> Message-ID: <42A345AE.6020206@fourthworld.com> Jon wrote: > All hell broke loose last night. When I got up, Norton Antivirus > claimed it was unable to complete a scan because it ran out of > resources, and recommended uninstalling and reinstalling. And Mozilla > Thunderbird suddenly claimed I had no email accounts and no saved > messages. I rebooted. > > It took an hour or so to get the help I needed to restore ThunderBird (a > preference file had been corrupted: the data was all there, just not > properly connected). And Norton seems to be scanning along just fine, > hour after hour. > > ThunderBird is behaving strangely, though. When I try to delete a > message, it doesn't work most of the time. If I kill Rev, TB works just > fine. > > TB did not work this way yesterday, and Rev is the only new software > I've been using for the past week, so I'm tempted to "blame" Rev for the > current rash of problems. > > Does any of this sound familiar to any of you? No. I would instead check your disk. If you're using OS X and youd hard drive's free space has ever dropped below 15% of total capacity you'll want to run Disk Utility while booted from your installation CD to check it thoroughly. Extra bonus points if you run Disk Warrior first, as it's the only tool that can do a wide range of deep and sometimes critical repairs (no, I don't work for them, just a fan). -- Richard Gaskin Fourth World Media Corporation Developer of WebMerge: Publish any database on any Web site ___________________________________________________________ Ambassador at FourthWorld.com http://www.FourthWorld.com From marty at vertex.ucls.uchicago.edu Sun Jun 5 14:44:11 2005 From: marty at vertex.ucls.uchicago.edu (Marty Billingsley) Date: Sun, 5 Jun 2005 13:44:11 -0500 (CDT) Subject: Dreamcard Roadster in the future??? In-Reply-To: <20050605151052.C0047930138@mail.runrev.com> References: <20050605151052.C0047930138@mail.runrev.com> Message-ID: Ken Ray writes: > I think it may actually be better if RunRev wants to consider running > content in a plugin that it consider outputing stacks to Flash and running > them with *that* plugin (since it is so ubiquitous) rather than creating > their own plugin. I'll second that. I've been wishing I could develop Flash pages using RR for a couple of years now. RR's interface is simple enough that my students can actually create some nice projects in the course of an eleven-week class, but there's absolutely no hope of them doing anything impressive in that time with Flash. And I'd like my students to be able to show off their projects via the web without making the audience download and install a player or download a potentially buggy application. I know a lot of people disagree, but Flash isn't going away anytime soon, and just about everyone has the shockwave plugin installed. What's wrong with jumping on that bandwagon? - marty -- Marty Billingsley (marty at ucls.uchicago.edu) The University of Chicago Laboratory Schools From troy at rpsystems.net Sun Jun 5 14:47:38 2005 From: troy at rpsystems.net (Troy Rollins) Date: Sun, 5 Jun 2005 14:47:38 -0400 Subject: who's out there? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Jun 5, 2005, at 2:12 PM, Jim Ault wrote: > My collection of programs that are directed by Rev via Applescript is > (Photoshop, Mac OSX shell, Excel, BBEdit, Entourage, Transmit) > > Rev is my core App. It is my central database, toolbox, file handling, > processing logic, error checking, and log file creation software. > Quite the > Swiss army knife of quick, easy software development. I find that using Rev to create personal super-utilities is one of the easiest, and most rewarding aspects of the program. It is quite a bit more difficult to create a cross-platform app for commercial distribution though. Personal super-utilities are awfully forgiving... -- Troy RPSystems, Ltd. http://www.rpsystems.net From soapdog at mac.com Sun Jun 5 14:48:51 2005 From: soapdog at mac.com (Andre Garzia) Date: Sun, 5 Jun 2005 15:48:51 -0300 Subject: using the HTTPS keyword... Message-ID: Folks, can someone shed a light on my previous message regarding a simple error trying to post to a SSL Url... the post returns: error -Error with certificate at depth: 1 issuer = /C=ZA/ST=Western Cape/L=Cape Town/O=Thawte Consulting cc/OU=Certification Services Division/CN=Thawte Server CA/Email=server-certs at thawte.com subject = /C=ZA/O=Thawte Consulting (Pty) Ltd./CN=Thawte SSL Domain CA err 20:unable to get local issuer certificate I tried pointing the sslcertificates prop to a dozen root.pem and root.crt that I have here with no luck.... can someone help plz? (before I implement the thing using open secure socket) andre -- Andre Alves Garzia ? 2004 ? BRAZIL http://studio.soapdog.org From troy at rpsystems.net Sun Jun 5 14:52:02 2005 From: troy at rpsystems.net (Troy Rollins) Date: Sun, 5 Jun 2005 14:52:02 -0400 Subject: Dreamcard Roadster in the future??? In-Reply-To: References: <20050605151052.C0047930138@mail.runrev.com> Message-ID: <427364ddcbc311c2e686a0903c96c3ea@rpsystems.net> On Jun 5, 2005, at 2:44 PM, Marty Billingsley wrote: > I know a lot of people disagree, but Flash isn't going away anytime > soon, and just about everyone has the shockwave plugin installed. > What's wrong with jumping on that bandwagon? The two programs are so dissimilar that I can't even imagine where the concept is coming from. -- Troy RPSystems, Ltd. http://www.rpsystems.net From ambassador at fourthworld.com Sun Jun 5 14:59:55 2005 From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin) Date: Sun, 05 Jun 2005 11:59:55 -0700 Subject: Dreamcard Roadster in the future??? In-Reply-To: <5e7ffffd14aeef6177a34f3d0799fd86@rpsystems.net> References: <9000A0FD-6EBD-466F-A2EB-7A71CCD989A9@major-k.de> <5e7ffffd14aeef6177a34f3d0799fd86@rpsystems.net> Message-ID: <42A34BAB.6050209@fourthworld.com> Troy Rollins wrote: > > On Jun 5, 2005, at 11:24 AM, Klaus Major wrote: > >> Please read this and spread the URL, so as many people as possible >> will get to read this!!!!! >> >> http://www.fourthworld.com/embassy/articles/netapps.html >> >> Wonderful read, thanks a lot, Richard! > > > Its true, I don't argue that either, and I've read Richard's document > many times. It IS a great article. I've believed similarly for a long > time, and produced many many projects along the same lines of thinking. Thanks for the kind words. It's been flattering to see how widely that document's been read. My hit log shows it linked from some univesity reading lists, and someone forwarded it to Jeremy Alaire which managed to get me a dinner with him (he's a very interesting cat). :) Maybe the pen is mightier than the sword. Can you imagine Jeremy Alaire having dinner with someone carrying a sword? > Nevertheless there are times when an executable of any kind is > unacceptable. Browser plugins however frequently escape this rule. Agreed, and for delivering within the limitations imposed by such an environment it seems Flash is a great solution. And more importantly, only Flash has the most critical thing that often gets overlooked in such discussions: it's already on the user's hard drive. Whether as a standalone or yet another plugin, something's gotta drive this stuff. While managers often say "Give me something that runs in a browser", once they find out it still requires a custom installation on every client machine they balk. They're accustomed to the Flash or Java experience, where the engine is pre-installed. Non-IT managers have a tough time articulating ALL of their needs up front. Sometimes IT managers do too. So they ask for these things without really considering all of the relevant factors, and when you deliver something that still requires a download and installation they say things like, "Heck, that's no better than a custom app." I don't have hard data, but from my experience in such conversations and anecdotally from other developers I find that about half of the managers who say "Give me something that runs in a browser" will happily use a standalone once they find out that the plugin would require the same installation effort and carries design limitations. That percentage can sometimes be increased by letting them know that a player can also be more secure: in secureMode it can't write anything to the local drive, not even a cookie, and the engine is reported to be immune to buffer overruns. You might be able to bump the percentage further still with two other points: - A custom standalone is a form of custom browser, but fully branded with their own identity. The pulsing logo launches their site, not Mozilla's. - By moving content out of the browser they elimintate the billions of dollars of lost productivity caused by putting things like intranets on a browser, where sports stats and porn are always just one click away. People do a lot of surfing on company time. The trick with all of this is to not deliver each application as a standalone; why replicate the engine and slow downloads? Instead, make a single custom player for the client which has its own method of listing available stacks from the server and running them. RevNet is an example of this -- in Rev see Development->Plugins->GoRevNet I've started putting a variant of RevNet in my own commercial apps as an information and support center called InfoCenter -- WebMerge is shipping with this now: And of course, there's still the other half who lives with the illusion that anything in a browser is somehow necessarily "better". For them the best solution is Flash or Java, since nothing else is pre-installed. > Andre - I also agree with you, that a java exporter would be the best > solution for Rev and browser delivery... but I expect we won't be seeing > that either. I'd bet sooner than we'd see a plugin. ;) -- Richard Gaskin Fourth World Media Corporation __________________________________________________ Rev tools and more: http://www.fourthworld.com/rev From alex at tweedly.net Sun Jun 5 15:01:12 2005 From: alex at tweedly.net (Alex Tweedly) Date: Sun, 05 Jun 2005 20:01:12 +0100 Subject: Trying to code the fastest algorithm... In-Reply-To: <42A2C27F.73F0549D@Club-Internet.fr> References: <42A2C27F.73F0549D@Club-Internet.fr> Message-ID: <42A34BF8.5000806@tweedly.net> jbv wrote: >Hi list, > >I'm trying to build the fastest possible algorithm for the >following task : >I have a variable containing reference words; each "word" >in this variable is considered as an item. >I also have a list of "sentences" (each sentence being a >list of "words" separated by spaces), 1 per line. Each >sentence can contain 1 or more words from the reference, >as well as other words. > >I need to determine for each sentence, which words from >the reference are included in it, in which order, and output >a list of offsets. >For example : > reference variable : W1,W2,W3,W4 > sentence 1 : Wx W2 Wy Wz W3 > output : 2,3 > >And last but not least, I need to keep only sentences that >contain more than 1 word from the reference. > >Here's the fastest script I managed to code : > >put "" into newList >repeat for each line j in mySentences > put j into a > replace " " with itemdelimiter in a > put "" into b > > repeat for each item i in it > get itemoffset(i,myReference) > if it>0 then > put it & itemdelimiter after b > end if > end repeat > > > Shouldn't that be "repeat for each item i in a" rather than "... in it", since "it" gets over-written within the loop ? > if b contains itemdelimiter then > delete last char of b > put b & cr after newList > end if > end repeat > >But I was wondering if there was any faster approach... > > I don't see anything here which "keeps only those sentences containing more than 1 word" ? newList just contains the list of offsets - with no indication which sentence they occurred in ??? Do you have a "typical" dataset in mind ? or know any characteristics of it ? how many words in the reference list ? how many sentences, and how long is a typical one ? how many "hits" vs "misses" ? Since you're asking for "fastest" algorithm, I assume at least one of these numbers is large - and it's unlikely the same algorithm would excel at both ends of the spectrum ..... I have 2 or 3 approaches in mind ... any clues you have on the characteristics of the data would help decide which ones to pursue ..... e.g. build an assoc array of the words which occur in myReferences, where the content of the array element is the word number within the references, and lookup each word in the sentence with that ... should be faster than "itemOffset" but probably not enough to justify it if the number of words in myReferences is very small. -- Alex Tweedly http://www.tweedly.net -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.323 / Virus Database: 267.6.2 - Release Date: 04/06/2005 From ambassador at fourthworld.com Sun Jun 5 15:05:07 2005 From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin) Date: Sun, 05 Jun 2005 12:05:07 -0700 Subject: who's out there? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <42A34CE3.6040208@fourthworld.com> Troy Rollins wrote: > I find that using Rev to create personal super-utilities is one of the > easiest, and most rewarding aspects of the program. > > It is quite a bit more difficult to create a cross-platform app for > commercial distribution though. Personal super-utilities are awfully > forgiving... "The difference between a tool and a product is about an order of magnitude: with a tool it merely needs to be possible to use it correctly, but with a product it should be impossible to use it incorrectly." - Steven McConnell (from 'Rapid Development') -- Richard Gaskin Fourth World Media Corporation __________________________________________________ Rev tools and more: http://www.fourthworld.com/rev From ambassador at fourthworld.com Sun Jun 5 15:09:58 2005 From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin) Date: Sun, 05 Jun 2005 12:09:58 -0700 Subject: OT: but interesting to Mac users In-Reply-To: <33F46FBA-BB63-4B1C-A398-8D1CC9C7B6B9@danshafer.com> References: <42A1988E.4020106@tweedly.net> <33F46FBA-BB63-4B1C-A398-8D1CC9C7B6B9@danshafer.com> Message-ID: <42A34E06.8020206@fourthworld.com> Dan Shafer wrote: > Since this is so far OT, I decided not to reply in detail here. If you > want to know what I think (and frankly I can't think of a lot of > reasons you should), check out my blog: > > http://www.eclecticity.com/.3c63d717 Well said on all fronts. Sometimes change is good, and I would like to see Macs both faster and cheaper. But I fear how many developers simply won't be able to afford yet another deep paradigm shift, as with 68k->PPC and Classic->OS X. -- Richard Gaskin Fourth World Media Corporation __________________________________________________ Rev tools and more: http://www.fourthworld.com/rev From ralf at dol.net Sun Jun 5 15:12:38 2005 From: ralf at dol.net (Ralph R. Forehand) Date: Sun, 5 Jun 2005 15:12:38 -0400 Subject: RevCon In-Reply-To: <57de3ab825418dd82498387fb6816514@mac.com> References: <57de3ab825418dd82498387fb6816514@mac.com> Message-ID: Andrea, Thank You Very Much for the quick info on RevCon. Unfortunately, the two-week turn around is much to short for me to set it up now. But I'll be thinking of you folks enviously, knowing it's going well, and trust that lots of information from the Conference finds it's way on-line. Maybe next year's RevCon???... Thanks Again and TAKE CARE, Ralph ------------------------------- >On Jun 5, 2005, at 2:13 PM, Ralph R. Forehand wrote: > >>Monterey?? Info on this Conference and/or URL?? >> >>Thanks in Advance, >>Ralph >> > >Ralph, this will be a hell of a conference, I am comming all the way from brazil to it. > >the url is: http://www.altuit.com/webs/altuit/RevConWest/ > >if you happen to be there, we'll all get togheter > >cheers >andre From ambassador at fourthworld.com Sun Jun 5 15:18:27 2005 From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin) Date: Sun, 05 Jun 2005 12:18:27 -0700 Subject: RevCon In-Reply-To: References: <57de3ab825418dd82498387fb6816514@mac.com> Message-ID: <42A35003.5050103@fourthworld.com> Ralph R. Forehand wrote: > Andrea, > > Thank You Very Much for the quick info on RevCon. Unfortunately, the two-week turn around is much to short for me to set it up now. > > But I'll be thinking of you folks enviously, knowing it's going well, and trust that lots of information from the Conference finds it's way on-line. > > Maybe next year's RevCon???... And if you can swing it there's also be another RevCon in Europe next year, in beautiful Malta - here's the info on the one from last November: So whether stateside or international, you'll have options. -- Richard Gaskin Fourth World Media Corporation __________________________________________________ Rev tools and more: http://www.fourthworld.com/rev From jbondy at sover.net Sun Jun 5 15:24:18 2005 From: jbondy at sover.net (Jon) Date: Sun, 05 Jun 2005 15:24:18 -0400 Subject: converting Offsets into Line Numbers Message-ID: <42A35162.5000301@sover.net> If I have a string with lots of lines in it (like a folder/file listing) and search for a file name with Offset and get a number back, now do I convert it into a line number, so I know which file name I found? :) Jon From ralf at dol.net Sun Jun 5 15:31:03 2005 From: ralf at dol.net (Ralph R. Forehand) Date: Sun, 5 Jun 2005 15:31:03 -0400 Subject: RevCon In-Reply-To: <42A35003.5050103@fourthworld.com> References: <57de3ab825418dd82498387fb6816514@mac.com> <42A35003.5050103@fourthworld.com> Message-ID: Richard wrote; >And if you can swing it there's also be another RevCon in Europe next year, in beautiful Malta - here's the info on the one from last November: > > >So whether stateside or international, you'll have options. Richard, THANK YOU for the heads-up. And WOW!!, I'll certainly keep an eye on this one too. While I've been to beautiful Monterey, CA, I've never been to Malta - but heard great things about it. :-)) Thanks Again and TAKE CARE, Ralph From soapdog at mac.com Sun Jun 5 15:30:03 2005 From: soapdog at mac.com (Andre Garzia) Date: Sun, 5 Jun 2005 16:30:03 -0300 Subject: converting Offsets into Line Numbers In-Reply-To: <42A35162.5000301@sover.net> References: <42A35162.5000301@sover.net> Message-ID: <391c3ffef93d2c15cf17fa29ffb1af20@mac.com> On Jun 5, 2005, at 4:24 PM, Jon wrote: > If I have a string with lots of lines in it (like a folder/file > listing) and search for a file name with Offset and get a number back, > now do I convert it into a line number, so I know which file name I > found? > > :) > > Jon > Jon, quick and dirty, imagine the following listing blue yellow red green laranja put lineoffset(tList, "red") into tLocation put line tLocation of tList this will put the line that contains red in the tLocation variable and after will put the given line in the message box Cheers andre > _______________________________________________ > use-revolution mailing list > use-revolution at lists.runrev.com > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution > > -- Andre Alves Garzia ? 2004 Soap Dog Studios - BRAZIL http://studio.soapdog.org From revdan at danshafer.com Sun Jun 5 15:33:25 2005 From: revdan at danshafer.com (Dan Shafer) Date: Sun, 5 Jun 2005 12:33:25 -0700 Subject: Posting RevCon West Sessions (was Re: who's out there?) In-Reply-To: <42A34522.7000704@fourthworld.com> References: <42A322E2.8030304@sover.net> <42A34522.7000704@fourthworld.com> Message-ID: <6584FE30-54ED-4D68-8DCA-E37616484CD9@danshafer.com> In fact, once the conference is over, Chipp Walters and I -- who are hosting the gathering -- will be finding new and cool ways to distribute conference sessions. Watch for post-conference announcements. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Dan Shafer, Co-Chair RevConWest '05 June 17-18, 2005, Monterey, California http://www.altuit.com/webs/altuit/RevConWest On Jun 5, 2005, at 11:32 AM, Richard Gaskin wrote: > We'll post our notes somewhere on the web so those who couldn't > make it can get at least an overview of what's covered. > From soapdog at mac.com Sun Jun 5 15:34:48 2005 From: soapdog at mac.com (Andre Garzia) Date: Sun, 5 Jun 2005 16:34:48 -0300 Subject: RevCon In-Reply-To: References: <57de3ab825418dd82498387fb6816514@mac.com> <42A35003.5050103@fourthworld.com> Message-ID: <5a1c909b6c10b4d068ada52b4a587181@mac.com> On Jun 5, 2005, at 4:31 PM, Ralph R. Forehand wrote: > Richard, > > THANK YOU for the heads-up. And WOW!!, I'll certainly keep an eye on > this one too. While I've been to beautiful Monterey, CA, I've never > been to Malta - but heard great things about it. :-)) > > Thanks Again and TAKE CARE, > Ralph > Ralph, I was on EuroRevDevConf in Malta!! That Place Rox! It's a magical place, I'll put some photos online to share with you guys! Cheers andre -- Andre Alves Garzia ? 2004 ? BRAZIL http://studio.soapdog.org From kray at sonsothunder.com Sun Jun 5 15:38:51 2005 From: kray at sonsothunder.com (Ken Ray) Date: Sun, 05 Jun 2005 15:38:51 -0400 Subject: converting Offsets into Line Numbers In-Reply-To: <42A35162.5000301@sover.net> Message-ID: > If I have a string with lots of lines in it (like a folder/file listing) > and search for a file name with Offset and get a number back, now do I > convert it into a line number, so I know which file name I found? Well, first of all might I suggest "lineOffset", which is the same as offset, but returns the number of line where it is found. However if you don't want to do that, you could as for 'the number of lines of char 1 to of '. Ken Ray Sons of Thunder Software Email: kray at sonsothunder.com Web Site: http://www.sonsothunder.com/ From kray at sonsothunder.com Sun Jun 5 15:39:52 2005 From: kray at sonsothunder.com (Ken Ray) Date: Sun, 05 Jun 2005 15:39:52 -0400 Subject: chunk question In-Reply-To: <126a43a854f65fa84df711e25ec2b0ae@mac.com> Message-ID: >> That is, how do I specify "to end of string"? >> > put char 7 to -1 of str into var You can also do: put char 7 to length(str) of str into var However the -1 is so much faster and easier to type... Ken Ray Sons of Thunder Software Email: kray at sonsothunder.com Web Site: http://www.sonsothunder.com/ From jbv.silences at Club-Internet.fr Sun Jun 5 15:47:01 2005 From: jbv.silences at Club-Internet.fr (jbv) Date: Sun, 05 Jun 2005 21:47:01 +0200 Subject: Trying to code the fastest algorithm... References: <42A2C27F.73F0549D@Club-Internet.fr> <42A34BF8.5000806@tweedly.net> Message-ID: <42A3569E.B4C0863B@Club-Internet.fr> Alex, > > repeat for each item i in it > > get itemoffset(i,myReference) > > if it>0 then > > put it & itemdelimiter after b > > end if > > end repeat > > > > > > > Shouldn't that be "repeat for each item i in a" rather than "... in it", > since "it" gets over-written within the loop ? yes, you're right. That was a typo. Actually my script is slightly more complex, and I had to strip off a couple of things to make the problem easier to explain... hence the typo... So here's a clean version of my code : put "" into newList repeat for each line j in mySentences put j into a replace " " with itemdelimiter in a put "" into b repeat for each item i in a get itemoffset(i,myReference) if it>0 then put it & itemdelimiter after b end if end repeat delete last char in b if b contains itemdelimiter then put b & cr after newList end if end repeat > > I don't see anything here which "keeps only those sentences containing > more than 1 word" ? it's the test : if b contains itemdelimiter then which runs about 25% to 30% faster than if number of items of b > 1 then > > > Do you have a "typical" dataset in mind ? > or know any characteristics of it ? as I said, only sentences, in french or english, with a maximum of 30 words. > > how many words in the reference list ? can range between 1 and 25. > > how many sentences, and how long is a typical one ? can range from 1 to several hundreds (hence the need for speed). > > how many "hits" vs "misses" ? unpredictable... > > > Since you're asking for "fastest" algorithm, I assume at least one of > these numbers is large - and it's unlikely the same algorithm would > excel at both ends of the spectrum ..... > > I have 2 or 3 approaches in mind ... any clues you have on the > characteristics of the data would help decide which ones to pursue ..... > e.g. build an assoc array of the words which occur in myReferences, > where the content of the array element is the word number within the > references, and lookup each word in the sentence with that ... should be > faster than "itemOffset" but probably not enough to justify it if the > number of words in myReferences is very small. > The "array" approach crossed my mind, but I'm afraid it's not feasable : the set of reference words is unpredictable. It is actually derived from a sentence entered by the end user, and after some processing / selection a set words is extracted from that sentence and then compared with other sentences in a data base... Thanks for your time & collaboration anyway. JB From troy at rpsystems.net Sun Jun 5 15:52:57 2005 From: troy at rpsystems.net (Troy Rollins) Date: Sun, 5 Jun 2005 15:52:57 -0400 Subject: who's out there? In-Reply-To: <42A34CE3.6040208@fourthworld.com> References: <42A34CE3.6040208@fourthworld.com> Message-ID: <4240ae6d0bd82b1b7b137b9f525b27f9@rpsystems.net> On Jun 5, 2005, at 3:05 PM, Richard Gaskin wrote: > Troy Rollins wrote: >> I find that using Rev to create personal super-utilities is one of >> the easiest, and most rewarding aspects of the program. >> It is quite a bit more difficult to create a cross-platform app for >> commercial distribution though. Personal super-utilities are awfully >> forgiving... > > "The difference between a tool and a product is about an order of > magnitude: with a tool it merely needs to be possible to use it > correctly, but with a product it should be impossible to use it > incorrectly." > - Steven McConnell (from 'Rapid Development') Ah. Well said! I was going by personal experience at having produced both. I hadn't quantified it, but "an order of magnitude" sounds about right. ;-) -- Troy RPSystems, Ltd. http://www.rpsystems.net From soapdog at mac.com Sun Jun 5 15:54:39 2005 From: soapdog at mac.com (Andre Garzia) Date: Sun, 5 Jun 2005 16:54:39 -0300 Subject: HTTPS and Root.pem... Message-ID: Folks, still no luck in the HTTPS field, can someone send me the root.pem file? my email is soapdog at mac.com I can't get this working, it always shout: error -Error with certificate at depth: 1 issuer = /C=ZA/ST=Western Cape/L=Cape Town/O=Thawte Consulting cc/OU=Certification Services Division/CN=Thawte Server CA/Email=server-certs at thawte.com subject = /C=ZA/O=Thawte Consulting (Pty) Ltd./CN=Thawte SSL Domain CA err 20:unable to get local issuer certificate thanks andre -- Andre Alves Garzia ? 2004 Soap Dog Studios - BRAZIL http://studio.soapdog.org From dsc at swcp.com Sun Jun 5 16:10:35 2005 From: dsc at swcp.com (Dar Scott) Date: Sun, 5 Jun 2005 14:10:35 -0600 Subject: HTTPS and Root.pem... In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <120f337a5b5899285cefc5fcb4b1afc4@swcp.com> On Jun 5, 2005, at 1:54 PM, Andre Garzia wrote: > still no luck in the HTTPS field, can someone send me the root.pem > file? my email is soapdog at mac.com On OS X look for TrustedCerts.pem; it works for testing. I'll mention .pem issues briefly at the end of my talk at RevCon. See you then! Dar -- ********************************************** DSC (Dar Scott Consulting & Dar's Lab) http://www.swcp.com/dsc/ Programming and software ********************************************** From alex at tweedly.net Sun Jun 5 16:14:31 2005 From: alex at tweedly.net (Alex Tweedly) Date: Sun, 05 Jun 2005 21:14:31 +0100 Subject: Trying to code the fastest algorithm... In-Reply-To: <42A3569E.B4C0863B@Club-Internet.fr> References: <42A2C27F.73F0549D@Club-Internet.fr> <42A34BF8.5000806@tweedly.net> <42A3569E.B4C0863B@Club-Internet.fr> Message-ID: <42A35D27.3070904@tweedly.net> jbv wrote: > >yes, you're right. That was a typo. >Actually my script is slightly more complex, and I had to strip >off a couple of things to make the problem easier to explain... >hence the typo... > >So here's a clean version of my code : > >put "" into newList >repeat for each line j in mySentences > put j into a > replace " " with itemdelimiter in a > put "" into b > > repeat for each item i in a > get itemoffset(i,myReference) > if it>0 then > put it & itemdelimiter after b > end if > end repeat > delete last char in b > > if b contains itemdelimiter then > put b & cr after newList > end if > end repeat > > > >>I don't see anything here which "keeps only those sentences containing >>more than 1 word" ? >> >> > >it's the test : > if b contains itemdelimiter then >which runs about 25% to 30% faster than > if number of items of b > 1 then > > cute !! very nice - I'll remember that one .... >>Since you're asking for "fastest" algorithm, I assume at least one of >>these numbers is large - and it's unlikely the same algorithm would >>excel at both ends of the spectrum ..... >> >>I have 2 or 3 approaches in mind ... any clues you have on the >>characteristics of the data would help decide which ones to pursue ..... >>e.g. build an assoc array of the words which occur in myReferences, >>where the content of the array element is the word number within the >>references, and lookup each word in the sentence with that ... should be >>faster than "itemOffset" but probably not enough to justify it if the >>number of words in myReferences is very small. >> >> >> > >The "array" approach crossed my mind, but I'm afraid it's not feasable : >the set of reference words is unpredictable. It is actually derived from a >sentence entered by the end user, and after some processing / selection >a set words is extracted from that sentence and then compared with other >sentences in a data base... > > > Still feasible ....( typing straight into email - typos possible ) put empty into myArray put 0 into count repeat for each item W in myReference add 1 to count put W && count & cr after myArray end repeat split myArray by CR and space I'll try some simple experiments based on the figures you gave.... more later. -- Alex Tweedly http://www.tweedly.net -------------- next part -------------- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.323 / Virus Database: 267.6.2 - Release Date: 04/06/2005 From soapdog at mac.com Sun Jun 5 16:17:28 2005 From: soapdog at mac.com (Andre Garzia) Date: Sun, 5 Jun 2005 17:17:28 -0300 Subject: HTTPS and Root.pem... In-Reply-To: <120f337a5b5899285cefc5fcb4b1afc4@swcp.com> References: <120f337a5b5899285cefc5fcb4b1afc4@swcp.com> Message-ID: On Jun 5, 2005, at 5:10 PM, Dar Scott wrote: > > On Jun 5, 2005, at 1:54 PM, Andre Garzia wrote: > >> still no luck in the HTTPS field, can someone send me the root.pem >> file? my email is soapdog at mac.com > > On OS X look for TrustedCerts.pem; it works for testing. > > I'll mention .pem issues briefly at the end of my talk at RevCon. See > you then! > > Dar > Dar, first thank you very much for the quick response, this been a major headache for me in the last few days, second, it didn't work. My script is this: on mouseUp answer file "where is it?" set the sslcertificates to it get fld 2 post it to URL "https://" put it & cr & the result after fld 3 end mouseUp I point it to the TrustedCerts.pem and it returns the following: error -Error with certificate at depth: 1 issuer = /C=ZA/ST=Western Cape/L=Cape Town/O=Thawte Consulting cc/OU=Certification Services Division/CN=Thawte Server CA/Email=server-certs at thawte.com subject = /C=ZA/O=Thawte Consulting (Pty) Ltd./CN=Thawte SSL Domain CA err 20:unable to get local issuer certificate any clue out there? cheers and thanks andre > -- > ********************************************** > DSC (Dar Scott Consulting & Dar's Lab) > http://www.swcp.com/dsc/ > Programming and software > ********************************************** > > _______________________________________________ > use-revolution mailing list > use-revolution at lists.runrev.com > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution > > -- Andre Alves Garzia ? 2004 ? BRAZIL http://studio.soapdog.org From dsc at swcp.com Sun Jun 5 16:19:13 2005 From: dsc at swcp.com (Dar Scott) Date: Sun, 5 Jun 2005 14:19:13 -0600 Subject: HTTPS and Root.pem... In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <185f86077855041ce1acff91963eb3d1@swcp.com> On Jun 5, 2005, at 1:54 PM, Andre Garzia wrote: > error -Error with certificate at depth: 1 issuer = /C=ZA/ST=Western > Cape/L=Cape Town/O=Thawte Consulting cc/OU=Certification Services > Division/CN=Thawte Server CA/Email=server-certs at thawte.com subject = > /C=ZA/O=Thawte Consulting (Pty) Ltd./CN=Thawte SSL Domain CA err > 20:unable to get local issuer certificate Hmmm. The problem may be more than the .pem. If that doesn't fix it, let us know. Gotta run. Dar -- ********************************************** DSC (Dar Scott Consulting & Dar's Lab) http://www.swcp.com/dsc/ Programming and software ********************************************** From JimAultWins at yahoo.com Sun Jun 5 16:52:57 2005 From: JimAultWins at yahoo.com (Jim Ault) Date: Sun, 05 Jun 2005 13:52:57 -0700 Subject: Trying to code the fastest algorithm... In-Reply-To: <42A3569E.B4C0863B@Club-Internet.fr> Message-ID: JB >I'm trying to build the fastest possible algorithm for the >following task : >I have a variable containing reference words; each "word" >in this variable is considered as an item. >I also have a list of "sentences" (each sentence being a >list of "words" separated by spaces), 1 per line. Each >sentence can contain 1 or more words from the reference, >as well as other words. > >I need to determine for each sentence, which words from >the reference are included in it, in which order, and output >a list of offsets. >For example : > reference variable : W1,W2,W3,W4 > sentence 1 : Wx W2 Wy Wz W3 > output : 2,3 > >And last but not least, I need to keep only sentences that >contain more than 1 word from the reference. Also > set of reference words is unpredictable. It is actually derived from a > sentence entered by the end user, and after some processing / selection > a set words is extracted from that sentence and then compared with other > sentences in a data base... Consider conditioning your task so that the list of sentences in the hit-detection variable is sorted by length, shortest to longest, then report back intermediate results for the user to begin evaluating (eg. every 50 lines). This would make the perceived wait time virtually zero. Show a progress indicator. Another approach, since you are allowing the user to enter hit words, including misspellings, is to test each user-word to see if it "is in tTheWholeList" and report a true-false for each word before doing the counts, and obviously not bothering to find it on each line. This would be very fast if no words qualified, and ask the user "do you want to continue" before actually doing the 'search'. This would save the user some aggravation waiting for a bad entry to finish. Along the same lines, you could break your sentences into arbitrary groups and test each for "is it in gSectionAglobal", no, skip, "is it in gSectionBglobal", yes, do the work, "is it in gSectionCglobal", no, skip... Are you considering a proximity parameter later? This means that words must occur within a certain 'neighborhood' or number of chars of each other. If this is the case, any sentence that is less than the proximity would not have to even be evaluated for that. If the database of sentences is static, think about pre-indexing the lines, then just locating the list of line numbers for each reference word, reporting the line number that "is in" at least one of the other index candidates. Adding new lines would only have to update the index, not rebuild it. Index could be the lineOffset("meal",indexx) --set whole matches to true forthnight,22,95 meal,12,13,14,26,32,45,78,299 meat,3,26,44,78 meet,26,34,99 meeting,2,4,1099 Just some thoughts. Are booleans coming later? W1 and (W2 or W5) Jim Ault Las Vegas On 6/5/05 12:47 PM, "jbv" wrote: > > > Alex, > >>> repeat for each item i in it >>> get itemoffset(i,myReference) >>> if it>0 then >>> put it & itemdelimiter after b >>> end if >>> end repeat >>> >>> >>> >> Shouldn't that be "repeat for each item i in a" rather than "... in it", >> since "it" gets over-written within the loop ? > > yes, you're right. That was a typo. > Actually my script is slightly more complex, and I had to strip > off a couple of things to make the problem easier to explain... > hence the typo... > > So here's a clean version of my code : > > put "" into newList > repeat for each line j in mySentences > put j into a > replace " " with itemdelimiter in a > put "" into b > > repeat for each item i in a > get itemoffset(i,myReference) > if it>0 then > put it & itemdelimiter after b > end if > end repeat > delete last char in b > > if b contains itemdelimiter then > put b & cr after newList > end if > end repeat > >> >> I don't see anything here which "keeps only those sentences containing >> more than 1 word" ? > > it's the test : > if b contains itemdelimiter then > which runs about 25% to 30% faster than > if number of items of b > 1 then > >> >> >> Do you have a "typical" dataset in mind ? >> or know any characteristics of it ? > > as I said, only sentences, in french or english, with a maximum > of 30 words. > >> >> how many words in the reference list ? > > can range between 1 and 25. > >> >> how many sentences, and how long is a typical one ? > > can range from 1 to several hundreds (hence the need for speed). > >> >> how many "hits" vs "misses" ? > > unpredictable... > >> >> >> Since you're asking for "fastest" algorithm, I assume at least one of >> these numbers is large - and it's unlikely the same algorithm would >> excel at both ends of the spectrum ..... >> >> I have 2 or 3 approaches in mind ... any clues you have on the >> characteristics of the data would help decide which ones to pursue ..... >> e.g. build an assoc array of the words which occur in myReferences, >> where the content of the array element is the word number within the >> references, and lookup each word in the sentence with that ... should be >> faster than "itemOffset" but probably not enough to justify it if the >> number of words in myReferences is very small. >> > > The "array" approach crossed my mind, but I'm afraid it's not feasable : > the set of reference words is unpredictable. It is actually derived from a > sentence entered by the end user, and after some processing / selection > a set words is extracted from that sentence and then compared with other > sentences in a data base... > > Thanks for your time & collaboration anyway. > JB > > _______________________________________________ > use-revolution mailing list > use-revolution at lists.runrev.com > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution From 36degrees at runrev.com Sun Jun 5 16:58:36 2005 From: 36degrees at runrev.com (Mark Waddingham) Date: Sun, 05 Jun 2005 21:58:36 +0100 Subject: HTTPS and Root.pem... In-Reply-To: References: <120f337a5b5899285cefc5fcb4b1afc4@swcp.com> Message-ID: <1118005116.507.0.camel@rachmaninov> Hi Andre, [ Thought I posted this yesterday but it must have been from a non-list friendly email-address... ] Have you tried the Thawte Root Certificate (of the appropriate hue)? http://www.thawte.com/roots/ Every Certificate Authority (CA) has a different root certificate that is needed locally for interaction with an HTTPS which has that authority as it's root authority. Any certificate that has been issued actually represents a chain of trust: the issued certificate is signed by some trusted entity which then has its certificate signed by another trusted entity etc. etc. right up til something gets signed by a Certificate Authority. Roughly, the SSL library will request certificates in turn for each step in the chain, verifying as it goes. However, when it gets to the end of the chain it has no-one to ask to verify the final (CA) certificate and so it must verify it against a local copy. Warmest Regards, Mark. ------------------------------------------------------------------ Mark Waddingham ~ 36degrees at runrev.com ~ http://www.runrev.com Runtime Revolution ~ User-Centric Development Tools From alex at tweedly.net Sun Jun 5 17:06:23 2005 From: alex at tweedly.net (Alex Tweedly) Date: Sun, 05 Jun 2005 22:06:23 +0100 Subject: Trying to code the fastest algorithm... In-Reply-To: <42A35D27.3070904@tweedly.net> References: <42A2C27F.73F0549D@Club-Internet.fr> <42A34BF8.5000806@tweedly.net> <42A3569E.B4C0863B@Club-Internet.fr> <42A35D27.3070904@tweedly.net> Message-ID: <42A3694F.8050303@tweedly.net> Alex Tweedly wrote: > >>> Since you're asking for "fastest" algorithm, I assume at least one of >>> these numbers is large - and it's unlikely the same algorithm would >>> excel at both ends of the spectrum ..... >>> >>> I have 2 or 3 approaches in mind ... any clues you have on the >>> characteristics of the data would help decide which ones to pursue >>> ..... >>> e.g. build an assoc array of the words which occur in myReferences, >>> where the content of the array element is the word number within the >>> references, and lookup each word in the sentence with that ... >>> should be >>> faster than "itemOffset" but probably not enough to justify it if the >>> number of words in myReferences is very small. >>> >>> >> >> >> The "array" approach crossed my mind, but I'm afraid it's not feasable : >> the set of reference words is unpredictable. It is actually derived >> from a >> sentence entered by the end user, and after some processing / selection >> a set words is extracted from that sentence and then compared with other >> sentences in a data base... >> >> >> > Still feasible ....( typing straight into email - typos possible ) > > put empty into myArray > put 0 into count > repeat for each item W in myReference > add 1 to count > put W && count & cr after myArray > end repeat > split myArray by CR and space > > I'll try some simple experiments based on the figures you gave.... > more later. I tried : 20 words in the reference list 20 - 30 words in each sentence 1000 sentences (actually, two sentences, repeated 500 times :-) 500 matches (each match is of 6 words from the ref list) your original algorithm took 305 millisecs (once I remembered to set wholeMatches to true !!) using the array split method as above took 28 millisecs (including the time to set up and split the array) Hope that's fast enough - but if not, let me know and I'll try another approach .... -- Alex Tweedly http://www.tweedly.net -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.323 / Virus Database: 267.6.2 - Release Date: 04/06/2005 From soapdog at mac.com Sun Jun 5 17:08:04 2005 From: soapdog at mac.com (Andre Garzia) Date: Sun, 5 Jun 2005 18:08:04 -0300 Subject: HTTPS and Root.pem... In-Reply-To: <1118005116.507.0.camel@rachmaninov> References: <120f337a5b5899285cefc5fcb4b1afc4@swcp.com> <1118005116.507.0.camel@rachmaninov> Message-ID: <9707a0c8743610dca0f9d280d1b0b23a@mac.com> Mark, thank god you're here. Yes, I have the Thawte Certs, all of them, none of them works. They all return the same: error -Error with certificate at depth: 1 issuer = /C=ZA/ST=Western Cape/L=Cape Town/O=Thawte Consulting cc/OU=Certification Services Division/CN=Thawte Server CA/Email=server-certs at thawte.com subject = /C=ZA/O=Thawte Consulting (Pty) Ltd./CN=Thawte SSL Domain CA err 20:unable to get local issuer certificate or they return error Error loading CA file and/or directory /Users/andregar/Desktop/thawte-roots/Thawte Code Signing CA.cer which I think it's okay since it's the wrong cert. I even simplified my code to: answer file "where's it?" set the sslcertificates to it get the unicodetext of fld 1 put simpleencode(it) into tOr get the cOrderRequestTemplate of this stack replace "%ORDER%" with tOr in it put it into fld 2 post it to URL "https://" put it && the result into fld 3 and it returns that error about not being able to get local issuer... any clue? Andre PS: ... I just redownloaded the Thawte certs and tested them all again, no good. It's Rev 2.5 rc 2 here. On Jun 5, 2005, at 5:58 PM, Mark Waddingham wrote: > Hi Andre, > > [ Thought I posted this yesterday but it must have been from a non-list > friendly email-address... ] > > Have you tried the Thawte Root Certificate (of the appropriate hue)? > > http://www.thawte.com/roots/ > > Every Certificate Authority (CA) has a different root certificate that > is needed locally for interaction with an HTTPS which has that > authority > as it's root authority. > > Any certificate that has been issued actually represents a chain of > trust: the issued certificate is signed by some trusted entity which > then has its certificate signed by another trusted entity etc. etc. > right up til something gets signed by a Certificate Authority. > > Roughly, the SSL library will request certificates in turn for each > step > in the chain, verifying as it goes. However, when it gets to the end of > the chain it has no-one to ask to verify the final (CA) certificate and > so it must verify it against a local copy. > > Warmest Regards, > > Mark. > > ------------------------------------------------------------------ > Mark Waddingham ~ 36degrees at runrev.com ~ http://www.runrev.com > Runtime Revolution ~ User-Centric Development Tools > > _______________________________________________ > use-revolution mailing list > use-revolution at lists.runrev.com > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution > > -- Andre Alves Garzia ? 2004 ? BRAZIL http://studio.soapdog.org From dsc at swcp.com Sun Jun 5 17:36:47 2005 From: dsc at swcp.com (Dar Scott) Date: Sun, 5 Jun 2005 15:36:47 -0600 Subject: HTTPS and Root.pem... In-Reply-To: <9707a0c8743610dca0f9d280d1b0b23a@mac.com> References: <120f337a5b5899285cefc5fcb4b1afc4@swcp.com> <1118005116.507.0.camel@rachmaninov> <9707a0c8743610dca0f9d280d1b0b23a@mac.com> Message-ID: <2c5949f7b6d51a634b7b5c2d542f359c@swcp.com> On Jun 5, 2005, at 3:08 PM, Andre Garzia wrote: > It's Rev 2.5 rc 2 here. There are some important differences between 2.5 and 2.5.1 in the handling of certificates. I don't know if that would apply to your problem. Dar -- ********************************************** DSC (Dar Scott Consulting & Dar's Lab) http://www.swcp.com/dsc/ Programming and software ********************************************** From jbv.silences at Club-Internet.fr Sun Jun 5 17:44:26 2005 From: jbv.silences at Club-Internet.fr (jbv) Date: Sun, 05 Jun 2005 23:44:26 +0200 Subject: Trying to code the fastest algorithm... References: <42A2C27F.73F0549D@Club-Internet.fr> <42A34BF8.5000806@tweedly.net> <42A3569E.B4C0863B@Club-Internet.fr> <42A35D27.3070904@tweedly.net> <42A3694F.8050303@tweedly.net> Message-ID: <42A37220.8A66B935@Club-Internet.fr> Alex, > your original algorithm took 305 millisecs (once I remembered to set > wholeMatches to true !!) > using the array split method as above took 28 millisecs (including the > time to set up and split the array) Thanks for the suggestion... I'll try to modify my script (early tomorrow morning) and see if it improves... > > Hope that's fast enough - but if not, let me know and I'll try another > approach .... > I don't want to waste too much of your time, but may I ask what other approach you have in mind (in a few words) ? Thanks again, JB From mwieder at ahsoftware.net Sun Jun 5 17:39:04 2005 From: mwieder at ahsoftware.net (Mark Wieder) Date: Sun, 5 Jun 2005 14:39:04 -0700 Subject: who's out there? In-Reply-To: <499158B0-702A-48A5-B844-54C83F9F50D4@writeme.com> References: <42A322E2.8030304@sover.net> <499158B0-702A-48A5-B844-54C83F9F50D4@writeme.com> Message-ID: <4320563338.20050605143904@ahsoftware.net> Dennis- Sunday, June 5, 2005, 11:26:28 AM, you wrote: DB> quirks and bugs. My beef is that it is the casual user --the ones DB> that can make or break a company by virtue of their numbers --that DB> will not put up with getting slapped 4 or 5 times on his first day of DB> use. He will give up and look elsewhere unless he has a lot of Thank you. I've been saying something similar for a long time. There are at least two classes of new users who need the IDE tweaked (even without fixing the bugs): professional programmers and casual users. Each needs different but not conflicting changes made to the IDE in order to get past that initial learning curve and give them the impetus to keep on. Once they get to that "Eureka!" moment they're hooked, but getting to that point without this list to help ain't easy. -- -Mark Wieder mwieder at ahsoftware.net From jbondy at sover.net Sun Jun 5 17:33:48 2005 From: jbondy at sover.net (Jon) Date: Sun, 05 Jun 2005 17:33:48 -0400 Subject: dump newbie image questiosn In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <42A36FBC.7020303@sover.net> John: Yes, I'm interested. My first learning project was to replicate my Windows image viewer/manipulator in Rev. That ended with some finality when it turned out that Rev runs so slowly that it cannot possibly process all of the pixels in a real image in the time a reasonable user would sit still. Sigh. I'm now working on a special music/video player, again "porting" it from a Windows implementation. It's almost finished (in the sense that all of the features seem to work at least once!), but needs a lot of cosmetic work and then lots of testing. I am displaying guitar tablature in an image along the bottom of the screen. I want the image to "squeeze" into the given box, but NOT be distorted (a fairly obvious need in my opinion). So, I need to write (or steal!) the logic that figures out which dimension needs to be adjusted, and then adjust it, and then use the LockLoc (what a strange and unintuitive name!) to let it expand to fill the properly proportioned image container. A snippet of code would suffice, although I've written this code enough times that I'm sure I could figure it out again. I am more annoyed that I even have to than anything else. The Geometry facility is interesting (and novel to me), but I don't know that it will work at all with the kinds of things I want to do. Because I don't want to distort any images, I will end up altering the shape of the Image object each time an image is loaded. Eventually, it will be easy to lose track of the original shape/size of the "container" into which I was trying to stuff the images. There is a concept missing here, I think: we need THREE image sizes (pixel size on disk, size of largest space available on the screen, and actual space used on the screen) rather than the two (first and last, above) that is currently available. I'm spoiled: all of this was available in a single mode property in my previous IDE. :) Jon John Ridge wrote: >Did you get any response to this query? If so, I've missed it - no surprise, >given the volume! > >I got interested in the issue, and have been playing with the lockLoc >property of the image. I do find the language confusing - the "image" is the >control within which you display a JPEG (say). When lockLoc is true, the >image (the control) stays as is, and the picture is forced to fit within it >- which can lead to massive distortion, of course. When lockLoc is false >(the default) the picture arrives in its native size - so your image may >turn out to be a small window into it. You can grab the image and slide it >around under the window. I've also done a ShrinkToFit handler, but I bet >there are better ways of doing the job! > >If you're interested, I can send the stack to the User Space, or >somewhere... > >Regards, >John > > From soapdog at mac.com Sun Jun 5 17:43:19 2005 From: soapdog at mac.com (Andre Garzia) Date: Sun, 5 Jun 2005 18:43:19 -0300 Subject: HTTPS and Root.pem... In-Reply-To: <2c5949f7b6d51a634b7b5c2d542f359c@swcp.com> References: <120f337a5b5899285cefc5fcb4b1afc4@swcp.com> <1118005116.507.0.camel@rachmaninov> <9707a0c8743610dca0f9d280d1b0b23a@mac.com> <2c5949f7b6d51a634b7b5c2d542f359c@swcp.com> Message-ID: <291ddfddb8d995f73ef59d25386d9030@mac.com> On Jun 5, 2005, at 6:36 PM, Dar Scott wrote: > There are some important differences between 2.5 and 2.5.1 in the > handling of certificates. I don't know if that would apply to your > problem. > > Dar Dar, sorry I forgot to type the revision number, this is 2.5.1rc2 cheers andre -- Andre Alves Garzia ? 2004 Soap Dog Studios - BRAZIL http://studio.soapdog.org From alex at tweedly.net Sun Jun 5 18:17:50 2005 From: alex at tweedly.net (Alex Tweedly) Date: Sun, 05 Jun 2005 23:17:50 +0100 Subject: Trying to code the fastest algorithm... In-Reply-To: <42A37220.8A66B935@Club-Internet.fr> References: <42A2C27F.73F0549D@Club-Internet.fr> <42A34BF8.5000806@tweedly.net> <42A3569E.B4C0863B@Club-Internet.fr> <42A35D27.3070904@tweedly.net> <42A3694F.8050303@tweedly.net> <42A37220.8A66B935@Club-Internet.fr> Message-ID: <42A37A0E.8050406@tweedly.net> jbv wrote: > I don't want to waste too much of your time, don't worry - this is a perfect excuse to avoid doing any *real* work - like documentation, testing, ... > but may I ask what other approach you have in mind (in a few words) ? Nothing else that has properly coalesced into "an idea" yet - just wild thoughts ..... build a regex, use that to filter the sentence list to only those which have at least one matching word, then apply the above algorithm replace each (word in the ref list) by a matching symbol throughout the sentence list, then use filter to remove non matching sentences (e.g. > put 0 into count > repeat for each item W in myReference > add 1 to count > replace W by ":"&count in mySentences > end repeat > filter mySentences by "*:*:*" (this would perhaps be worth pursuing if the ref list is usually small - at 30 words, I doubt it has much chance) I'm sure there are others .... but even these two are kind of long shots. And after that, there's always a large glass of 25-year malt and a soak in the hot tub to come up with more ideas .... :-) -- Alex Tweedly http://www.tweedly.net -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.323 / Virus Database: 267.6.2 - Release Date: 04/06/2005 From rstace at uow.edu.au Sun Jun 5 19:07:58 2005 From: rstace at uow.edu.au (Ray Stace) Date: Mon, 06 Jun 2005 09:07:58 +1000 Subject: RevOnlline Viewer connect problem Message-ID: I have asked RevSupport the following question, without luck so far, and Jacqueline suggested I also try the group: maybe someone here knows the answer... I have updated to Revolution 2.5.1, but cannot get any network connections to work from within Revolution [revOnline Viewer] so cannot access any of the channels in that utility. RevOnline viewer says ?There was an error while contacting the server. Please ensure that you have an active internet connection, and try again in a few moments.? I do have an active connection. RevNet says ?Check network connection and proxy setup in Preferences?. I have set up proxy correctly, [HTTP proxy: proxy.uow.edu.au:8080]. Computer setup: Mac OS X 10.3.7 Revolution 2.5.1 Yes, I am behind a firewall, but all other network connections work correctly with a variety of browsers. Why can?t Revolution connect? From ptrendler at bigpond.com Sun Jun 5 19:07:39 2005 From: ptrendler at bigpond.com (Pat Trendler) Date: Mon, 6 Jun 2005 09:07:39 +1000 Subject: bug References: <42A19E7A.8040501@sover.net><42A1EF1D.80302@sover.net><42A1F904.7090408@hyperactivesw.com><42A22CDD.1080706@sover.net><42A2461A.3010704@tweedly.net><17924760573.20050604174402@ahsoftware.net> <42A2E30E.8030003@tweedly.net><014201c569cd$ff833c10$0100000a@super> <42A301C7.5070400@tweedly.net> Message-ID: <000f01c56a23$aff0ca40$0100000a@super> After Step 11 this time - msg window now says 122 Pat > Did you (or could you, please) try the sequence one more time. This > time, do not try the ctrl-S after step 8, which should be equivalent to > what I am able to do. So simply do > ... > 8. edit the script, replacing "2" by "3" > 9. click on the window border of the main stack > 10. in the main menu, select File/Save [or hit ctrl-S] (and see / click > to remove the "saving ... " box) > 11. run it again - msg window now says 12? > > Thanks, > -- Alex. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Alex Tweedly" To: "How to use Revolution" Sent: Sunday, June 05, 2005 11:44 PM Subject: Re: bug > Pat Trendler wrote: > >> I ran twice just to make sure. Win XP Rev 2.5.1 >> >> Step 8. Ctrl-S worked OK. Apply btn was greyed out. >> > Interesting. Wonder why it doesn't work on my machines (same on both XP > machines I have here - and I think it was the same on my old Win2000 > machine, but can't confirm it till I get home at the end of the week ...) > >> Step 11. Msg box was 123. Apply btn no longer active. >> From brad at activadesign.com Sun Jun 5 19:08:26 2005 From: brad at activadesign.com (Brad Borch) Date: Sun, 05 Jun 2005 19:08:26 -0400 Subject: Audio problems Message-ID: I can't get any settings but RAW codec to record. I get static or worse with other settings. I also can't get MP3's to play from within Revolution. I'm using Dreamcard 2.5.1 on a Mac 10.3.9, Quicktime 7. Brad From briany at qldlearning.com Sun Jun 5 19:15:31 2005 From: briany at qldlearning.com (Brian Yennie) Date: Sun, 5 Jun 2005 16:15:31 -0700 Subject: Trying to code the fastest algorithm... In-Reply-To: <42A37A0E.8050406@tweedly.net> References: <42A2C27F.73F0549D@Club-Internet.fr> <42A34BF8.5000806@tweedly.net> <42A3569E.B4C0863B@Club-Internet.fr> <42A35D27.3070904@tweedly.net> <42A3694F.8050303@tweedly.net> <42A37220.8A66B935@Club-Internet.fr> <42A37A0E.8050406@tweedly.net> Message-ID: <3dd91c572cd727aa1653394a959e2773@qldlearning.com> Here's one off-the-cuff idea, dunno how it will stack up. ## create an array that looks like ## array['word1'] => 1, array['word2'] => 2, etc repeat for each item W in wordList put wordNum into wordArray[W] end repeat ## loop through sentences repeat for each line l in tSentences put 1 into tOffset ## check each word repeat for each word tWord in l ## quick array check to see if we want this word ## note: "it" now contains the number of the word we found get wordArray[tWord] if (it is not empty) then put tOffset&comma after tResultLine add 1 to tOffset end repeat if (tResultLine is not empty) then put (char 1 to -2 of tResultLine)&cr after tResults end repeat delete last char of tResults Hope it helps- no time to test out, but the idea is hopefully clear. From bvg at mac.com Sun Jun 5 19:20:28 2005 From: bvg at mac.com (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Bj=F6rnke_von_Gierke?=) Date: Mon, 6 Jun 2005 01:20:28 +0200 Subject: who's out there? In-Reply-To: <42A322E2.8030304@sover.net> References: <42A322E2.8030304@sover.net> Message-ID: <0bc7405d90658cc3256ffa73f4f9d677@mac.com> On Jun 05 2005, at 18:05, Jon wrote: > I'm curious. How many of you use Rev to make a living, and how many > of you just play with it. I'm at the point where I can't believe > anyone could use it to do serious development. It is just too buggy, > syntax idiosyncrasies and sloth aside. > > And how many of you successfully deploy cross-platform applications? > That is my holy grail, but I'm so far away from that I can't even > imagine it. I started developing with runrev 1.1.1, after being spoiled by hypercard in my young years. I am a hobbyist, but made a cross platform web chat, which now runs in 2 commercial applications (not made by me) I am also in the process of making the first (as far as i know) runrev-only coding contest. this or next week i will announce the details of the coding contest. The url for it is http://contest.wecode.org (thanks andre) greetings Bj?rnke -- official ChatRev page: http://chatrev.cjb.net Chat with other RunRev developers: go stack URL "http://homepage.mac.com/bvg/chatrev1.3.rev" From brad at activadesign.com Sun Jun 5 19:32:11 2005 From: brad at activadesign.com (Brad Borch) Date: Sun, 05 Jun 2005 19:32:11 -0400 Subject: who's out there? In-Reply-To: <0bc7405d90658cc3256ffa73f4f9d677@mac.com> References: <42A322E2.8030304@sover.net> <0bc7405d90658cc3256ffa73f4f9d677@mac.com> Message-ID: Hi, I'm a professional multimedia producer, and I'm planning to produce a language learning CD using Revolution. My only other options are Flash, which supports Unicode but has a truly impossible IDE for anything but animations, and Director, which doesn't do Unicode. I haven't done any cross-platform testing yet, but I'm betting Revolution will do the job... at least I sure hope it does :-o I looked at it when v2 came out, and at that time is was much buggier. All I can say about RR is that I can do in one line of code what would take me a few dozen in anything else--if it were even possible. Bj?rnke von Gierke wrote: > > On Jun 05 2005, at 18:05, Jon wrote: > >> I'm curious. How many of you use Rev to make a living, and how many >> of you just play with it. I'm at the point where I can't believe >> anyone could use it to do serious development. It is just too buggy, >> syntax idiosyncrasies and sloth aside. >> >> And how many of you successfully deploy cross-platform applications? >> That is my holy grail, but I'm so far away from that I can't even >> imagine it. > > > > I started developing with runrev 1.1.1, after being spoiled by hypercard > in my young years. I am a hobbyist, but made a cross platform web chat, > which now runs in 2 commercial applications (not made by me) > I am also in the process of making the first (as far as i know) > runrev-only coding contest. > this or next week i will announce the details of the coding contest. The > url for it is > http://contest.wecode.org (thanks andre) > > greetings > Bj?rnke > From revdan at danshafer.com Sun Jun 5 19:39:35 2005 From: revdan at danshafer.com (Dan Shafer) Date: Sun, 5 Jun 2005 16:39:35 -0700 Subject: who's out there? In-Reply-To: <4320563338.20050605143904@ahsoftware.net> References: <42A322E2.8030304@sover.net> <499158B0-702A-48A5-B844-54C83F9F50D4@writeme.com> <4320563338.20050605143904@ahsoftware.net> Message-ID: Well, then perhaps one question is whether there needs to be clearer pointing to this list for users who are new to the process? ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Dan Shafer, Co-Chair RevConWest '05 June 17-18, 2005, Monterey, California http://www.altuit.com/webs/altuit/RevConWest On Jun 5, 2005, at 2:39 PM, Mark Wieder wrote: > getting to > that point without this list to help ain't easy. > From soapdog at mac.com Sun Jun 5 19:41:17 2005 From: soapdog at mac.com (Andre Garzia) Date: Sun, 5 Jun 2005 20:41:17 -0300 Subject: who's out there? In-Reply-To: <0bc7405d90658cc3256ffa73f4f9d677@mac.com> References: <42A322E2.8030304@sover.net> <0bc7405d90658cc3256ffa73f4f9d677@mac.com> Message-ID: On Jun 5, 2005, at 8:20 PM, Bj?rnke von Gierke wrote: > I am also in the process of making the first (as far as i know) > runrev-only coding contest. > this or next week i will announce the details of the coding contest. > The url for it is > http://contest.wecode.org (thanks andre) you're welcome!! cheeers andre -- Andre Alves Garzia ? 2004 ? BRAZIL http://studio.soapdog.org From alex at tweedly.net Sun Jun 5 19:46:44 2005 From: alex at tweedly.net (Alex Tweedly) Date: Mon, 06 Jun 2005 00:46:44 +0100 Subject: RevOnlline Viewer connect problem In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <42A38EE4.4010907@tweedly.net> Ray Stace wrote: >I have asked RevSupport the following question, without luck so far, and >Jacqueline suggested I also try the group: maybe someone here knows the >answer... > >I have updated to Revolution 2.5.1, but cannot get any network connections >to work from within Revolution [revOnline Viewer] so cannot access any of >the channels in that utility. > >RevOnline viewer says ?There was an error while contacting the server. >Please ensure that you have an active internet connection, and try again in >a few moments.? >I do have an active connection. > >RevNet says ?Check network connection and proxy setup in Preferences?. >I have set up proxy correctly, [HTTP proxy: proxy.uow.edu.au:8080]. > >Computer setup: >Mac OS X 10.3.7 >Revolution 2.5.1 >Yes, I am behind a firewall, but all other network connections work >correctly with a variety of browsers. > >Why can?t Revolution connect? > > It's unlikely - but may be worth trying this ..... I had a vaguely similar problem (trying to connect to "My Space" on RevOnline, not RevOnline in general). We never did get a definitive answer to what the problem was - but amongst the suggestions Mark W. made then were > > One thing springs to mind, it might be that your version of the 'My > Space' > channel is out of date. Have you chosen the 'never check for updates' > option > in the preferences? > > If you have, then please try changing to 'once per session' and restart > Revolution to ensure it downloads the new versions of the channels. > > If this doesn't work, please can you try deleting the Revolution > preferences > folder - it might be that there has been a strange interaction between > the > beta and the release versions. The actual location of this varies > among the > difference windows versions, but you can find out by doing: > put specialFolderPath(0x001a) in the message box. This directory will > then contain a directory 'Revolution' > that you should delete. I had indeed checked the "never check for updates - because I was having troubles due to Bugzilla 2117; unchecking that was probably part of the solution. We resolved my problem with a combination of resetting things, deleting the preferences as above and, I'm afraid to say, turning off my firewall for 10 seconds. In that 10 seconds, I connected once to RevOnline - and immediately re-enabled the firewall. Thereafter, everything worked just fine. There is no reason we could think of why that temporary disabling of the firewall should help - and it may be that it didn't, it might have been coincidence that that was the time it just worked. (I was on a Win2000 box, connecting via a Windows XP machine with Win XP Firewall enabled). In case it helps, the support ticket number was 200409041000615 (last September) -- Alex Tweedly http://www.tweedly.net -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.323 / Virus Database: 267.6.2 - Release Date: 04/06/2005 From jacque at hyperactivesw.com Sun Jun 5 19:51:59 2005 From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay) Date: Sun, 05 Jun 2005 18:51:59 -0500 Subject: running rev cgi on Mac OS 8.6 Personal web server? In-Reply-To: References: <20050605052629.62BFEB6B4@xprdmailfe14.nwk.excite.com> <42A32064.40907@hyperactivesw.com> Message-ID: <42A3901F.4040506@hyperactivesw.com> On 6/5/05 11:01 AM, Andre Garzia wrote: > Jacque, > > do you remember any MacOS Classic webserver that is able to run Rev > CGIs? I am trying to remember here but nothing comes to mind.... The > only thing I remember is that you can glue WebServer + Applescript > middleware + Revolution app. Right, that is all I remember too. I worked with Apple's web server software and HyperCard and Mac OS 7.5 to create an online database for a school district many years ago. And yes, we needed to use AppleScript to communicate between the server and HyperCard as a CGI. HyperCard then formulated HTML pages and sent those back to the server. Rev could work the same way, I imagine. I haven't written any server implementations for OS 9 for many years though. -- Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com From Buddyb3ar22 at aol.com Sun Jun 5 19:52:11 2005 From: Buddyb3ar22 at aol.com (Buddyb3ar22 at aol.com) Date: Sun, 5 Jun 2005 19:52:11 EDT Subject: Slider appearence Message-ID: <84.46eea70c.2fd4ea2b@aol.com> I was wondering, if there was a way to change the appearance of a slider bar, for example, making bar an image that you made and the dot you drag too? Or does it have to be like its original look? From jacque at hyperactivesw.com Sun Jun 5 19:54:15 2005 From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay) Date: Sun, 05 Jun 2005 18:54:15 -0500 Subject: who's out there? In-Reply-To: <42A322E2.8030304@sover.net> References: <42A322E2.8030304@sover.net> Message-ID: <42A390A7.1090006@hyperactivesw.com> On 6/5/05 11:05 AM, Jon wrote: > I'm curious. How many of you use Rev to make a living, and how many of > you just play with it. I make a living with it, and have for many, many years. You can see some examples of software I've done with Revolution (and MetaCard before it) if you go to my web site and look at the "Solutions" section. You are in the hardest phase right now -- learning a new paradigm and overcoming the older IDE you are used to. It will get much easier soon. You have to do a thought-shift. -- Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com From revdan at danshafer.com Sun Jun 5 19:55:06 2005 From: revdan at danshafer.com (Dan Shafer) Date: Sun, 5 Jun 2005 16:55:06 -0700 Subject: who's out there? In-Reply-To: <0bc7405d90658cc3256ffa73f4f9d677@mac.com> References: <42A322E2.8030304@sover.net> <0bc7405d90658cc3256ffa73f4f9d677@mac.com> Message-ID: <1F1160BF-163D-43EB-AF24-F5053369052F@danshafer.com> Jon.... I've created several commercial products for clients using Revolution, going back to 1.1, and they all had to run on both Mac and Windows. I am a Mac guy, so I did all the development work on Macintosh. While you can run into some fairly well-documented issues as you move across platforms, a huge percentage of what you write once will run anywhere. I've spent a good part of my career looking at programming languages and development environments, both for my own use and in writing books and doing technology assessment. I can honestly say that Revolution is, hands down, the most seamless cross- platform software development tool available. Over the next four months I will release four of my *own* commercial products on Mac and Windows, and all of them will be done in Revolution. I will be able to deliver them over the Web, auto-update them transparently, offer professional installation capabilities, and do all the other things you'd expect from a professional piece of software. All at a fraction of the time investment of any other tool I know about. You say the Revolution IDE "is just too buggy." I've read all of the messages on this list - including many from you in recent days - and I can't honestly say I've seen you report or describe a single bug. Quirks, yes; all development environments have those. Stuff that's confusing, to be sure. Need for improvement, absolutely. But to characterize it as "buggy" given what I have read from you here is simply going too far. I know how frustrating it can be trying to master this environment (that's why I wrote a book and some sample eChapters about it) but I can't honestly say that I've encountered one thing I needed to do to create a professional looking, usable software application and couldn't do in Revolution. It doesn't do everything and it's not suited to all problems, but for upwards of 95% of all software being written today above the system level, I challenge you to find a better solution. On Jun 05 2005, at 18:05, Jon wrote: > I'm curious. How many of you use Rev to make a living, and how > many of you just play with it. I'm at the point where I can't > believe anyone could use it to do serious development. It is just > too buggy, syntax idiosyncrasies and sloth aside. > > And how many of you successfully deploy cross-platform > applications? That is my holy grail, but I'm so far away from that > I can't even imagine it. > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Dan Shafer, Co-Chair RevConWest '05 June 17-18, 2005, Monterey, California http://www.altuit.com/webs/altuit/RevConWest From marty at vertex.ucls.uchicago.edu Sun Jun 5 19:57:17 2005 From: marty at vertex.ucls.uchicago.edu (Marty Billingsley) Date: Sun, 5 Jun 2005 18:57:17 -0500 (CDT) Subject: Dreamcard Roadster in the future??? In-Reply-To: <20050605193231.D577793016B@mail.runrev.com> References: <20050605193231.D577793016B@mail.runrev.com> Message-ID: Troy Rollins writes: > > On Jun 5, 2005, at 2:44 PM, Marty Billingsley wrote: > > > I know a lot of people disagree, but Flash isn't going away anytime > > soon, and just about everyone has the shockwave plugin installed. > > What's wrong with jumping on that bandwagon? > > The two programs are so dissimilar that I can't even imagine where the > concept is coming from. How do you mean dissimilar? The interface is certainly dissimilar, but the end product can be identical. Why can't RR offer an option for saving standalone apps as OS X, Win, Unix or SWF? (yes, I know swf isn't a "standalone", but it's a separate document that plays in the browser.) Now, I don't get into the intricacies of RunRev -- I don't use sockets with it, or any internet protocol stuff -- but for what we do in my class, being able to save as a shockwave (flash) file would be fantastic. - marty -- Marty Billingsley (marty at ucls.uchicago.edu) The University of Chicago Laboratory Schools From jacque at hyperactivesw.com Sun Jun 5 20:08:35 2005 From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay) Date: Sun, 05 Jun 2005 19:08:35 -0500 Subject: dump newbie image questiosn In-Reply-To: <42A36FBC.7020303@sover.net> References: <42A36FBC.7020303@sover.net> Message-ID: <42A39403.1010109@hyperactivesw.com> On 6/5/05 4:33 PM, Jon wrote: > My first learning project was to replicate my Windows image > viewer/manipulator in Rev. That ended with some finality when it turned > out that Rev runs so slowly that it cannot possibly process all of the > pixels in a real image in the time a reasonable user would sit still. > Sigh. You should be able to do this easily, and I know of several image viewers that others have done. It is a trivial task in Revolution, and very fast. There are so many image commands and features that you should never need to manipulate individual pixel data except in the most unusual cases. For a standard image viewer project, never. This is an excellent first-time project. It should be possible to write a simple image viewer in a handful of lines. You can display an image from disk in a single line of Transcript. You can set its size in one more line. What did you need to do exactly? Maybe we can help you finish this. > > I'm now working on a special music/video player, again "porting" it from > a Windows implementation. It's almost finished (in the sense that all > of the features seem to work at least once!), but needs a lot of > cosmetic work and then lots of testing. I am displaying guitar > tablature in an image along the bottom of the screen. I want the image > to "squeeze" into the given box, but NOT be distorted (a fairly obvious > need in my opinion). So, I need to write (or steal!) the logic that > figures out which dimension needs to be adjusted, and then adjust it, > and then use the LockLoc (what a strange and unintuitive name!) to let > it expand to fill the properly proportioned image container. LockLoc is short for "lock location" and can also be written "locklocation". ;) It overcomes the default behavior of images, which is to automatically expand to fit their image contents. When you put an image from disk into an image object, it will automatically resize to fit the image content. If you do not want this behavior, you lock the location (that is, you prevent resizing) by setting the lockLoc to true. When an image is locked this way, its contents will *scale* to fit the image object, rather than the object scaling to fit the image content. > > A snippet of code would suffice, although I've written this code enough > times that I'm sure I could figure it out again. I am more annoyed that > I even have to than anything else. I have it somewhere but I'd have to go search for it. It isn't too hard though. You just get the width of the available space and the height of the available space, then compare them to see which is larger. Use the largest one to calculate a ratio. Multiply that ratio times the formattedwidth of the image to get the new width; multiply it times the formattedheight of the image to get the new height. If you can't figure it out, post again and I will go look for it. I can't remember which project I put it in. ;) > > The Geometry facility is interesting (and novel to me), but I don't know > that it will work at all with the kinds of things I want to do. Because > I don't want to distort any images, I will end up altering the shape of > the Image object each time an image is loaded. As per above, if you leave the lockloc of the image object set to false, the image will automatically resize to the native dimensions. > Eventually, it will be > easy to lose track of the original shape/size of the "container" into > which I was trying to stuff the images. There is a concept missing > here, I think: we need THREE image sizes (pixel size on disk, size of > largest space available on the screen, and actual space used on the > screen) rather than the two (first and last, above) that is currently > available. I'm spoiled: all of this was available in a single mode > property in my previous IDE. I'm not sure what you are after exactly, but these can all be retrieved. Pixel size on disk: formattedwidth and formattedheight of the image. Space available on screen: you'll have to calculate that, or if it is always the same, store it as a constant, a property or a variable, etc. Actual space used on screen: you can get either the rect of the image, or you can get the width and the height of the image. This represents the actual current size of the image object. -- Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com From rjb at robelko.com Sun Jun 5 20:05:48 2005 From: rjb at robelko.com (Robert Brenstein) Date: Mon, 6 Jun 2005 02:05:48 +0200 Subject: running rev cgi on Mac OS 8.6 Personal web server? In-Reply-To: <42A3901F.4040506@hyperactivesw.com> References: <20050605052629.62BFEB6B4@xprdmailfe14.nwk.excite.com> <42A32064.40907@hyperactivesw.com> <42A3901F.4040506@hyperactivesw.com> Message-ID: >On 6/5/05 11:01 AM, Andre Garzia wrote: > >> Jacque, >> >> do you remember any MacOS Classic webserver that is able to run Rev >> CGIs? I am trying to remember here but nothing comes to mind.... The >> only thing I remember is that you can glue WebServer + Applescript >> middleware + Revolution app. > >Right, that is all I remember too. I worked with Apple's web server >software and HyperCard and Mac OS 7.5 to create an online database >for a school district many years ago. And yes, we needed to use >AppleScript to communicate between the server and HyperCard as a >CGI. HyperCard then formulated HTML pages and sent those back to the >server. > >Rev could work the same way, I imagine. I haven't written any server >implementations for OS 9 for many years though. > >-- >Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com >HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com I have a client still running a Rev-based CGI (with Valentina as database) behind MacHTTP under OS9 and works just dandy, serving some 1500 users. AppleEvents (not AppleScript) are used for inter-program communication. Such a setup will work just fine under 8.6 on beige 233. It is actually possible to run this (yes, 8.6) on early G4's to get some more cpu power. Perfect use for older hardware for less demanding service. Robert From soapdog at mac.com Sun Jun 5 20:20:59 2005 From: soapdog at mac.com (Andre Garzia) Date: Sun, 5 Jun 2005 21:20:59 -0300 Subject: running rev cgi on Mac OS 8.6 Personal web server? In-Reply-To: References: <20050605052629.62BFEB6B4@xprdmailfe14.nwk.excite.com> <42A32064.40907@hyperactivesw.com> <42A3901F.4040506@hyperactivesw.com> Message-ID: <51298cc597b38ca34666b360e5c260df@mac.com> On Jun 5, 2005, at 9:05 PM, Robert Brenstein wrote: > I have a client still running a Rev-based CGI (with Valentina as > database) behind MacHTTP under OS9 and works just dandy, serving some > 1500 users. AppleEvents (not AppleScript) are used for inter-program > communication. > > Such a setup will work just fine under 8.6 on beige 233. It is > actually possible to run this (yes, 8.6) on early G4's to get some > more cpu power. Perfect use for older hardware for less demanding > service. > > Robert > Robert, nice, so you can just add an appleevent handler in your rev app and you're good to go? man, that would be very nice. cheers andre -- Andre Alves Garzia ? 2004 ? BRAZIL http://studio.soapdog.org From revdan at danshafer.com Sun Jun 5 20:34:16 2005 From: revdan at danshafer.com (Dan Shafer) Date: Sun, 5 Jun 2005 17:34:16 -0700 Subject: running rev cgi on Mac OS 8.6 Personal web server? In-Reply-To: <42A3901F.4040506@hyperactivesw.com> References: <20050605052629.62BFEB6B4@xprdmailfe14.nwk.excite.com> <42A32064.40907@hyperactivesw.com> <42A3901F.4040506@hyperactivesw.com> Message-ID: <1BD327D1-9062-4144-97E9-E681888AEA45@danshafer.com> My guess is you could be thinking of WebStar (http://www.4d.com/ products/webstar.html). Dan On Jun 5, 2005, at 4:51 PM, J. Landman Gay wrote: > On 6/5/05 11:01 AM, Andre Garzia wrote: > > > Jacque, > > > > do you remember any MacOS Classic webserver that is able to run Rev > > CGIs? I am trying to remember here but nothing comes to mind.... The > > only thing I remember is that you can glue WebServer + Applescript > > middleware + Revolution app. > > Right, that is all I remember too. I worked with Apple's web server > software and HyperCard and Mac OS 7.5 to create an online database > for a school district many years ago. And yes, we needed to use > AppleScript to communicate between the server and HyperCard as a > CGI. HyperCard then formulated HTML pages and sent those back to > the server. > > Rev could work the same way, I imagine. I haven't written any > server implementations for OS 9 for many years though. > > -- > Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com > HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com > _______________________________________________ > use-revolution mailing list > use-revolution at lists.runrev.com > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution > > From jacque at hyperactivesw.com Sun Jun 5 20:43:03 2005 From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay) Date: Sun, 05 Jun 2005 19:43:03 -0500 Subject: Trying to code the fastest algorithm... In-Reply-To: <42A2C27F.73F0549D@Club-Internet.fr> References: <42A2C27F.73F0549D@Club-Internet.fr> Message-ID: <42A39C17.4090304@hyperactivesw.com> On 6/5/05 4:14 AM, jbv wrote: > Hi list, > > I'm trying to build the fastest possible algorithm for the > following task : > I have a variable containing reference words; each "word" > in this variable is considered as an item. > I also have a list of "sentences" (each sentence being a > list of "words" separated by spaces), 1 per line. Each > sentence can contain 1 or more words from the reference, > as well as other words. > > I need to determine for each sentence, which words from > the reference are included in it, in which order, and output > a list of offsets. > For example : > reference variable : W1,W2,W3,W4 > sentence 1 : Wx W2 Wy Wz W3 > output : 2,3 > > And last but not least, I need to keep only sentences that > contain more than 1 word from the reference. My stab at it: function calcwords tReference,tSentence -- tReference should be the comma-delimited word list, i.e.: "w1,w2,w3" -- tSentence is the user's space-delimited entry, i.e.: "wx w2 wy wz w3" put tReference into tRef -- so we can manipulate a copy replace comma with comma & cr in tRef split tRef by cr and comma replace space with comma & cr in tSentence split tSentence by cr and comma intersect tSentence with tRef -- it now has the right keys repeat for each line l in keys(tSentence) put itemoffset(l,tReference) & comma after tOutput end repeat delete last char of tOutput -- the comma if comma is in tOutput then return tOutput else return empty end calcwords I didn't time it but it seems like it should be faster. -- Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com From rjb at robelko.com Sun Jun 5 20:40:20 2005 From: rjb at robelko.com (Robert Brenstein) Date: Mon, 6 Jun 2005 02:40:20 +0200 Subject: running rev cgi on Mac OS 8.6 Personal web server? In-Reply-To: <51298cc597b38ca34666b360e5c260df@mac.com> References: <20050605052629.62BFEB6B4@xprdmailfe14.nwk.excite.com> <42A32064.40907@hyperactivesw.com> <42A3901F.4040506@hyperactivesw.com> <51298cc597b38ca34666b360e5c260df@mac.com> Message-ID: >On Jun 5, 2005, at 9:05 PM, Robert Brenstein wrote: > >>I have a client still running a Rev-based CGI (with Valentina as >>database) behind MacHTTP under OS9 and works just dandy, serving >>some 1500 users. AppleEvents (not AppleScript) are used for >>inter-program communication. >> >>Such a setup will work just fine under 8.6 on beige 233. It is >>actually possible to run this (yes, 8.6) on early G4's to get some >>more cpu power. Perfect use for older hardware for less demanding >>service. >> >>Robert >> > >Robert, > >nice, so you can just add an appleevent handler in your rev app and >you're good to go? > >man, that would be very nice. > >cheers >andre > Yes, all you need is an appleevent handler that checks for web event and replies to it by sending html page. My old starter.cgi is still online for those who wants to get rolling faster. This solution is particularly easy to implement for people with no unix background, which is required at least to some degree to handle an Apache setup. I am also running Apache/PHP/MySQL service and it is surely more work to maintain. Robert From briany at qldlearning.com Sun Jun 5 21:03:58 2005 From: briany at qldlearning.com (Brian Yennie) Date: Sun, 5 Jun 2005 18:03:58 -0700 Subject: Dreamcard Roadster in the future??? In-Reply-To: References: <20050605193231.D577793016B@mail.runrev.com> Message-ID: <0ac6915122758c090dcc8761fa451729@qldlearning.com> Simply put, the majority of Revolution projects use features that don't exist in Flash. Not to mention that moving from a card metaphor to a frame metaphor barely even registers... I think it's a noble idea, but the two environments are hardly similar at all... > Troy Rollins writes: >> >> On Jun 5, 2005, at 2:44 PM, Marty Billingsley wrote: >> >>> I know a lot of people disagree, but Flash isn't going away anytime >>> soon, and just about everyone has the shockwave plugin installed. >>> What's wrong with jumping on that bandwagon? >> >> The two programs are so dissimilar that I can't even imagine where the >> concept is coming from. > > How do you mean dissimilar? The interface is certainly dissimilar, > but the end product can be identical. Why can't RR offer an > option for saving standalone apps as OS X, Win, Unix or SWF? > (yes, I know swf isn't a "standalone", but it's a separate document > that plays in the browser.) > > Now, I don't get into the intricacies of RunRev -- I don't use > sockets with it, or any internet protocol stuff -- but for what > we do in my class, being able to save as a shockwave (flash) file > would be fantastic. > > - marty > > -- > Marty Billingsley (marty at ucls.uchicago.edu) > The University of Chicago Laboratory Schools > _______________________________________________ > use-revolution mailing list > use-revolution at lists.runrev.com > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution > > From ptrendler at bigpond.com Sun Jun 5 21:10:32 2005 From: ptrendler at bigpond.com (Pat Trendler) Date: Mon, 6 Jun 2005 11:10:32 +1000 Subject: Slider appearence References: <84.46eea70c.2fd4ea2b@aol.com> Message-ID: <00e301c56a34$8c314510$0100000a@super> Buddy, Go to Development - Revolution Online - User Spaces - Klausimausi - custom volume slider. Could be what you want. Pat ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Monday, June 06, 2005 9:52 AM Subject: Slider appearence > > I was wondering, if there was a way to change the appearance of a slider > bar, > for example, making bar an image that you made and the dot you drag too? > Or > does it have to be like its original look? > > _______________________________________________ > use-revolution mailing list > use-revolution at lists.runrev.com > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution > From troy at rpsystems.net Sun Jun 5 21:19:02 2005 From: troy at rpsystems.net (Troy Rollins) Date: Sun, 5 Jun 2005 21:19:02 -0400 Subject: Dreamcard Roadster in the future??? In-Reply-To: <0ac6915122758c090dcc8761fa451729@qldlearning.com> References: <20050605193231.D577793016B@mail.runrev.com> <0ac6915122758c090dcc8761fa451729@qldlearning.com> Message-ID: <65021504d99edd72f5aa5d976c498e15@rpsystems.net> On Jun 5, 2005, at 9:03 PM, Brian Yennie wrote: > Simply put, the majority of Revolution projects use features that > don't exist in Flash. Not to mention that moving from a card metaphor > to a frame metaphor barely even registers... > > I think it's a noble idea, but the two environments are hardly similar > at all... Exactly. And it isn't just the environments... it is the distributable file too. SWF is a compiled format, based in OOP and a vector display engine, with a security sandbox. Rev is non-oop procedural, with native controls. They simply don't translate well. I can only imagine the hideous SWFs it would create *AFTER* obeying the HUGE list of caveats which would be required. The whole thing would be so crippled, that no one would actually use it. Can you even imagine the debugging process? Suffice it to say that only the most moronically simple Rev project could even hope to survive the conversion. Spend far more than the available resources, to do a poor job of publishing to a competitor's proprietary runtime format, which incidentally has very little in common with Rev at all... sure!! Keeping in mind that Adobe could change the SWF plugin on a whim, leaving Rev, where? Noble, perhaps, but the whole idea makes no (business) sense whatsoever. And after all, Flash isn't so hard to learn... -- Troy From ambassador at fourthworld.com Sun Jun 5 21:19:32 2005 From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin) Date: Sun, 05 Jun 2005 18:19:32 -0700 Subject: Dreamcard Roadster in the future??? In-Reply-To: <0ac6915122758c090dcc8761fa451729@qldlearning.com> References: <20050605193231.D577793016B@mail.runrev.com> <0ac6915122758c090dcc8761fa451729@qldlearning.com> Message-ID: <42A3A4A4.2040608@fourthworld.com> Brian Yennie wrote: > Simply put, the majority of Revolution projects use features that don't > exist in Flash. Similarly, the majority of Rev apps use feature that aren't possible in a browser. -- Richard Gaskin Fourth World Media Corporation ___________________________________________________________ Ambassador at FourthWorld.com http://www.FourthWorld.com From dsc at swcp.com Sun Jun 5 21:19:44 2005 From: dsc at swcp.com (Dar Scott) Date: Sun, 5 Jun 2005 19:19:44 -0600 Subject: HTTPS and Root.pem... In-Reply-To: <9707a0c8743610dca0f9d280d1b0b23a@mac.com> References: <120f337a5b5899285cefc5fcb4b1afc4@swcp.com> <1118005116.507.0.camel@rachmaninov> <9707a0c8743610dca0f9d280d1b0b23a@mac.com> Message-ID: On Jun 5, 2005, at 3:08 PM, Andre Garzia wrote: > error -Error with certificate at depth: 1 issuer = > /C=ZA/ST=Western Cape/L=Cape Town/O=Thawte Consulting > cc/OU=Certification Services Division/CN=Thawte Server > CA/Email=server-certs at thawte.com subject = /C=ZA/O=Thawte Consulting > (Pty) Ltd./CN=Thawte SSL Domain CA err 20:unable to get local issuer > certificate > > or they return > > error Error loading CA file and/or directory > /Users/andregar/Desktop/thawte-roots/Thawte Code Signing CA.cer I wonder if what you are seeing is not your error, but the server's error. The server might be expecting a certificate from the client. That would be reasonable in a situation like yours where you are using post. However, I don't think Revolution can supply a certificate to a server, yet. I don't know how to specify it if the ability is there. That is, maybe the server wants to know you are who you say you are, too. That is, it looks like a problem in the local lookup, but "local" to whom? Maybe you can sneak up on this. Try getting a simple https page from a popular server. Then try getting a page from the server in question. If that fails, try it with a web browser; maybe the sever has a bad cert. Try a post with some other tool. Maybe then you have learned what you need to do the post. I hope you get this solved before RevCon. I can then pass all the hard SSL questions on to you! Dar -- ********************************************** DSC (Dar Scott Consulting & Dar's Lab) http://www.swcp.com/dsc/ Programming and software ********************************************** From jbondy at sover.net Sun Jun 5 21:22:54 2005 From: jbondy at sover.net (Jon) Date: Sun, 05 Jun 2005 21:22:54 -0400 Subject: who's out there? In-Reply-To: <1F1160BF-163D-43EB-AF24-F5053369052F@danshafer.com> References: <42A322E2.8030304@sover.net> <0bc7405d90658cc3256ffa73f4f9d677@mac.com> <1F1160BF-163D-43EB-AF24-F5053369052F@danshafer.com> Message-ID: <42A3A56E.7070801@sover.net> Dan: You said ""You say the Revolution IDE "is just too buggy." I've read all of the messages on this list - including many from you in recent days - and I can't honestly say I've seen you report or describe a single bug". Well, two of them have been BugZilla'd by others on the list. I'd say when an IDE simply disappears from the screen when you try to click on the Files menu; when Applys and Saves get so confused that the program won't run and that it is not clear what is going on; when I reposition an object and it starts dropping slowly down the screen until I kill the IDE; and when the IDE (REPEATEDLY) gets so compute bound that I have to kill it and start it up again. Well, I look at these things as bugs. I've used Delphi for years and years. It simply does not have this level of quirky, buggy behavior. Anyone who loves Rev should realize that this kind of behavior can only drive people away before they give the rest of the technology a chance. That said, I'm still intrigued by Rev. :) Jon Dan Shafer wrote: > Jon.... > > I've created several commercial products for clients using > Revolution, going back to 1.1, and they all had to run on both Mac > and Windows. I am a Mac guy, so I did all the development work on > Macintosh. While you can run into some fairly well-documented issues > as you move across platforms, a huge percentage of what you write > once will run anywhere. I've spent a good part of my career looking > at programming languages and development environments, both for my > own use and in writing books and doing technology assessment. I can > honestly say that Revolution is, hands down, the most seamless cross- > platform software development tool available. > > Over the next four months I will release four of my *own* commercial > products on Mac and Windows, and all of them will be done in > Revolution. I will be able to deliver them over the Web, auto-update > them transparently, offer professional installation capabilities, and > do all the other things you'd expect from a professional piece of > software. All at a fraction of the time investment of any other tool > I know about. > > You say the Revolution IDE "is just too buggy." I've read all of the > messages on this list - including many from you in recent days - and > I can't honestly say I've seen you report or describe a single bug. > Quirks, yes; all development environments have those. Stuff that's > confusing, to be sure. Need for improvement, absolutely. But to > characterize it as "buggy" given what I have read from you here is > simply going too far. I know how frustrating it can be trying to > master this environment (that's why I wrote a book and some sample > eChapters about it) but I can't honestly say that I've encountered > one thing I needed to do to create a professional looking, usable > software application and couldn't do in Revolution. It doesn't do > everything and it's not suited to all problems, but for upwards of > 95% of all software being written today above the system level, I > challenge you to find a better solution. > > > On Jun 05 2005, at 18:05, Jon wrote: > > >> I'm curious. How many of you use Rev to make a living, and how many >> of you just play with it. I'm at the point where I can't believe >> anyone could use it to do serious development. It is just too >> buggy, syntax idiosyncrasies and sloth aside. >> >> And how many of you successfully deploy cross-platform >> applications? That is my holy grail, but I'm so far away from that >> I can't even imagine it. >> > > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ > Dan Shafer, Co-Chair > RevConWest '05 > June 17-18, 2005, Monterey, California > http://www.altuit.com/webs/altuit/RevConWest > > > _______________________________________________ > use-revolution mailing list > use-revolution at lists.runrev.com > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution > > From briany at qldlearning.com Sun Jun 5 21:30:01 2005 From: briany at qldlearning.com (Brian Yennie) Date: Sun, 5 Jun 2005 18:30:01 -0700 Subject: who's out there? In-Reply-To: <42A3A56E.7070801@sover.net> References: <42A322E2.8030304@sover.net> <0bc7405d90658cc3256ffa73f4f9d677@mac.com> <1F1160BF-163D-43EB-AF24-F5053369052F@danshafer.com> <42A3A56E.7070801@sover.net> Message-ID: Jon, Thanks for chiming in on these problems. From my perspective, both sides are right here. There are "safe paths" in the IDE which are quite stable- in fact, my normal use habits are well supported with virtually no problems. On the same token, the things you have found clearly ARE bugs and I hope they will be fixed promptly. The good news is, I believe we're finding bugs more now because of the expanding user base for Rev. There are more new users than ever on the lists, and as defensive as some of the old hats (myself included!) can be, new user problems and criticisms are exactly what the product needs to make a run at the masses. - Brian > Dan: > > You said ""You say the Revolution IDE "is just too buggy." I've read > all of the messages on this list - including many from you in recent > days - and I can't honestly say I've seen you report or describe a > single bug". > > Well, two of them have been BugZilla'd by others on the list. > > I'd say when an IDE simply disappears from the screen when you try to > click on the Files menu; when Applys and Saves get so confused that > the program won't run and that it is not clear what is going on; when > I reposition an object and it starts dropping slowly down the screen > until I kill the IDE; and when the IDE (REPEATEDLY) gets so compute > bound that I have to kill it and start it up again. Well, I look at > these things as bugs. I've used Delphi for years and years. It > simply does not have this level of quirky, buggy behavior. Anyone who > loves Rev should realize that this kind of behavior can only drive > people away before they give the rest of the technology a chance. > > That said, I'm still intrigued by Rev. > :) > > Jon > > > Dan Shafer wrote: > >> Jon.... >> >> I've created several commercial products for clients using >> Revolution, going back to 1.1, and they all had to run on both Mac >> and Windows. I am a Mac guy, so I did all the development work on >> Macintosh. While you can run into some fairly well-documented issues >> as you move across platforms, a huge percentage of what you write >> once will run anywhere. I've spent a good part of my career looking >> at programming languages and development environments, both for my >> own use and in writing books and doing technology assessment. I can >> honestly say that Revolution is, hands down, the most seamless cross- >> platform software development tool available. >> >> Over the next four months I will release four of my *own* commercial >> products on Mac and Windows, and all of them will be done in >> Revolution. I will be able to deliver them over the Web, auto-update >> them transparently, offer professional installation capabilities, and >> do all the other things you'd expect from a professional piece of >> software. All at a fraction of the time investment of any other tool >> I know about. >> >> You say the Revolution IDE "is just too buggy." I've read all of the >> messages on this list - including many from you in recent days - and >> I can't honestly say I've seen you report or describe a single bug. >> Quirks, yes; all development environments have those. Stuff that's >> confusing, to be sure. Need for improvement, absolutely. But to >> characterize it as "buggy" given what I have read from you here is >> simply going too far. I know how frustrating it can be trying to >> master this environment (that's why I wrote a book and some sample >> eChapters about it) but I can't honestly say that I've encountered >> one thing I needed to do to create a professional looking, usable >> software application and couldn't do in Revolution. It doesn't do >> everything and it's not suited to all problems, but for upwards of >> 95% of all software being written today above the system level, I >> challenge you to find a better solution. >> >> >> On Jun 05 2005, at 18:05, Jon wrote: >> >> >>> I'm curious. How many of you use Rev to make a living, and how >>> many of you just play with it. I'm at the point where I can't >>> believe anyone could use it to do serious development. It is just >>> too buggy, syntax idiosyncrasies and sloth aside. >>> >>> And how many of you successfully deploy cross-platform >>> applications? That is my holy grail, but I'm so far away from that >>> I can't even imagine it. >>> >> >> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ >> Dan Shafer, Co-Chair >> RevConWest '05 >> June 17-18, 2005, Monterey, California >> http://www.altuit.com/webs/altuit/RevConWest >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> use-revolution mailing list >> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution >> >> > _______________________________________________ > use-revolution mailing list > use-revolution at lists.runrev.com > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution > > From soapdog at mac.com Sun Jun 5 21:30:04 2005 From: soapdog at mac.com (Andre Garzia) Date: Sun, 5 Jun 2005 22:30:04 -0300 Subject: HTTPS and Root.pem... In-Reply-To: References: <120f337a5b5899285cefc5fcb4b1afc4@swcp.com> <1118005116.507.0.camel@rachmaninov> <9707a0c8743610dca0f9d280d1b0b23a@mac.com> Message-ID: On Jun 5, 2005, at 10:19 PM, Dar Scott wrote: > I wonder if what you are seeing is not your error, but the server's > error. The server might be expecting a certificate from the client. > That would be reasonable in a situation like yours where you are using > post. However, I don't think Revolution can supply a certificate to a > server, yet. I don't know how to specify it if the ability is there. > That is, maybe the server wants to know you are who you say you are, > too. > > That is, it looks like a problem in the local lookup, but "local" to > whom? > > Maybe you can sneak up on this. Try getting a simple https page from > a popular server. Then try getting a page from the server in > question. If that fails, try it with a web browser; maybe the sever > has a bad cert. Try a post with some other tool. Maybe then you have > learned what you need to do the post. > > I hope you get this solved before RevCon. I can then pass all the > hard SSL questions on to you! > > Dar Dar, I begun to wonder the same thing also, but I discovered that it's not a server error message it is actually a openssl error message, trying to connect to the secure server using openssl command line tool yelded the following response (quoted from a much bigger output): --- No client certificate CA names sent --- SSL handshake has read 2202 bytes and written 340 bytes --- New, TLSv1/SSLv3, Cipher is DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA Server public key is 1024 bit SSL-Session: Protocol : TLSv1 Cipher : DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA Session-ID: DCB5B184CA7F0BC6D5D005543789AC455B27C951ED28322D5B5126292F1964B8 Session-ID-ctx: Master-Key: 4CB07308E672F65381DDABF8F4386DED97CC1482C3E8A25BE362157D01B1806395F07107 697074B96D87316E937F3F59 Key-Arg : None Start Time: 1118014043 Timeout : 300 (sec) Verify return code: 20 (unable to get local issuer certificate) --- the server connects and I am able to use HTTP commands to it, it appears that while the openssl commandline tool don't think that this error is a show stopper, Rev in the other hand will refuse to go forward. I checked bugzilla and saw that there was a thread that apparently asked for this behaviour saying that if the cert cannot be verified, rev should stop. I'd like to go like the open secure socket command where I can simply choose to ignore verification. it will be a long night trying to solve this... thanks andre > -- Andre Alves Garzia ? 2004 Soap Dog Studios - BRAZIL http://studio.soapdog.org From jbondy at sover.net Sun Jun 5 21:32:34 2005 From: jbondy at sover.net (Jon) Date: Sun, 05 Jun 2005 21:32:34 -0400 Subject: dump newbie image questiosn In-Reply-To: <42A39403.1010109@hyperactivesw.com> References: <42A36FBC.7020303@sover.net> <42A39403.1010109@hyperactivesw.com> Message-ID: <42A3A7B2.4000207@sover.net> J. Landman Gay wrote: > On 6/5/05 4:33 PM, Jon wrote: > >> My first learning project was to replicate my Windows image >> viewer/manipulator in Rev. That ended with some finality when it >> turned out that Rev runs so slowly that it cannot possibly process >> all of the pixels in a real image in the time a reasonable user would >> sit still. Sigh. > > > You should be able to do this easily, and I know of several image > viewers that others have done. It is a trivial task in Revolution, and > very fast. There are so many image commands and features that you > should never need to manipulate individual pixel data except in the > most unusual cases. For a standard image viewer project, never. My viewer is not a standard viewer. I've implemented a variety of useful features that require that I manage each pixel individually (basically doing custom and complex brightness and contrast stretching). Rev is way too slow to do anything like that. > > This is an excellent first-time project. It should be possible to > write a simple image viewer in a handful of lines. You can display an > image from disk in a single line of Transcript. You can set its size > in one more line. What did you need to do exactly? Maybe we can help > you finish this. You can download my Windows image viewer if you root around in www.jonbondy.com a bit if you want to see the features I've implemented. Image sizing is a very difficult thing in Rev: the default seems to be either 1:1 display (which often is too large to fit in the allocated space) or horrible distortion when the image is forced into the limits of the enclosure. I can write software to fix all of this, but I decided to move on to another project (the audio/video player) > >> >> I'm now working on a special music/video player, again "porting" it >> from a Windows implementation. It's almost finished (in the sense >> that all of the features seem to work at least once!), but needs a >> lot of cosmetic work and then lots of testing. I am displaying >> guitar tablature in an image along the bottom of the screen. I want >> the image to "squeeze" into the given box, but NOT be distorted (a >> fairly obvious need in my opinion). So, I need to write (or steal!) >> the logic that figures out which dimension needs to be adjusted, and >> then adjust it, and then use the LockLoc (what a strange and >> unintuitive name!) to let it expand to fill the properly proportioned >> image container. > > > LockLoc is short for "lock location" and can also be written > "locklocation". ;) It overcomes the default behavior of images, which > is to automatically expand to fit their image contents. This is not locking a location; it is altering the image expansion behavior. I find some of this nomenclature to be very bizarre. > > When you put an image from disk into an image object, it will > automatically resize to fit the image content. If you do not want this > behavior, you lock the location (that is, you prevent resizing) by > setting the lockLoc to true. When an image is locked this way, its > contents will *scale* to fit the image object, rather than the object > scaling to fit the image content. True, but it will scale in both directions, distorting it horribly. This is not useful behavior, unless you want to fill a large space with a small speck of blue. It's ok for backrgounds, not for actual images. > >> >> A snippet of code would suffice, although I've written this code >> enough times that I'm sure I could figure it out again. I am more >> annoyed that I even have to than anything else. > > > I have it somewhere but I'd have to go search for it. It isn't too > hard though. You just get the width of the available space and the > height of the available space, then compare them to see which is > larger. Use the largest one to calculate a ratio. Multiply that ratio > times the formattedwidth of the image to get the new width; multiply > it times the formattedheight of the image to get the new height. > > If you can't figure it out, post again and I will go look for it. I > can't remember which project I put it in. ;) Yeah: the logic is straightforward if you work it out. I just feel as if this should be an intrinsic part of images. And I ran into some huge bugs when I accidentally mixed an image with Geometry with an On Resize handler. > >> >> The Geometry facility is interesting (and novel to me), but I don't >> know that it will work at all with the kinds of things I want to do. >> Because I don't want to distort any images, I will end up altering >> the shape of the Image object each time an image is loaded. > > > As per above, if you leave the lockloc of the image object set to > false, the image will automatically resize to the native dimensions. As per above, the image will be impossible to see, since it will be so distorted > >> Eventually, it will be easy to lose track of the original shape/size >> of the "container" into which I was trying to stuff the images. >> There is a concept missing here, I think: we need THREE image sizes >> (pixel size on disk, size of largest space available on the screen, >> and actual space used on the screen) rather than the two (first and >> last, above) that is currently available. I'm spoiled: all of this >> was available in a single mode property in my previous IDE. > > > I'm not sure what you are after exactly, but these can all be retrieved. > > Pixel size on disk: formattedwidth and formattedheight of the image. > > Space available on screen: you'll have to calculate that, or if it is > always the same, store it as a constant, a property or a variable, etc. > > Actual space used on screen: you can get either the rect of the image, > or you can get the width and the height of the image. This represents > the actual current size of the image object. > Maybe this is better left as a phone conversation Jon From soapdog at mac.com Sun Jun 5 21:47:33 2005 From: soapdog at mac.com (Andre Garzia) Date: Sun, 5 Jun 2005 22:47:33 -0300 Subject: running rev cgi on Mac OS 8.6 Personal web server? In-Reply-To: References: <20050605052629.62BFEB6B4@xprdmailfe14.nwk.excite.com> <42A32064.40907@hyperactivesw.com> <42A3901F.4040506@hyperactivesw.com> <51298cc597b38ca34666b360e5c260df@mac.com> Message-ID: On Jun 5, 2005, at 9:40 PM, Robert Brenstein wrote: > Yes, all you need is an appleevent handler that checks for web event > and replies to it by sending html page. My old starter.cgi is still > online for those who wants to get rolling faster. > > This solution is particularly easy to implement for people with no > unix background, which is required at least to some degree to handle > an Apache setup. I am also running Apache/PHP/MySQL service and it is > surely more work to maintain. > > Robert > Robert, thanks for pointing me to this thread. I was so lazy a programmer in the MacOS 8.x days that I never understood how CGIs and HTTP and AppleEvents worked. I came to figure those things later in MacOS 9.x and then MacOS X (lucky me I came from linux so unix was something I was familiar). I remember seeing about ACGI but I could not understand the thing. Now I just downloaded MacHTTP and read the manual, it's so clear and I find the design so simple and yet very macintosh-esque. Could you send your starter.cgi for me to look? I am planning in stealing some ideas for the next installment of RevHTTPd. As of now, RevHTTPd is source compatible with libCGI meaning that cgis coded for libCGI will work out of the box in RevHTTPd, would be usefull to expand RevHTTPd so that it could launch ACGI and/or receive ACGI calls from MacHTTP and WebStar? Do people need this? cheers Andre -- Andre Alves Garzia ? 2004 Soap Dog Studios - BRAZIL http://studio.soapdog.org From revdan at danshafer.com Sun Jun 5 22:02:24 2005 From: revdan at danshafer.com (Dan Shafer) Date: Sun, 5 Jun 2005 19:02:24 -0700 Subject: who's out there? In-Reply-To: <42A3A56E.7070801@sover.net> References: <42A322E2.8030304@sover.net> <0bc7405d90658cc3256ffa73f4f9d677@mac.com> <1F1160BF-163D-43EB-AF24-F5053369052F@danshafer.com> <42A3A56E.7070801@sover.net> Message-ID: <708995D8-10F8-4AC9-AB2C-7C0A8362C77C@danshafer.com> Delphi has been around for more years than Rev. I remember very clearly going through some really, really buggy early experiences with that product as well. And please don't misunderstand me. I agree there are issues in the IDE. The things you cited in your email have all been worked around by Rev developers and when you ask here how to deal with them, my experience is you get real answers. But when you're a programmer and your programs don't run and you can't be confident in the development environment you're using, that is not a good thing. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Dan Shafer, Co-Chair RevConWest '05 June 17-18, 2005, Monterey, California http://www.altuit.com/webs/altuit/RevConWest On Jun 5, 2005, at 6:22 PM, Jon wrote: > I've used Delphi for years and years. It simply does not have this > level of quirky, buggy behavior. From dsc at swcp.com Sun Jun 5 22:10:30 2005 From: dsc at swcp.com (Dar Scott) Date: Sun, 5 Jun 2005 20:10:30 -0600 Subject: HTTPS and Root.pem... In-Reply-To: References: <120f337a5b5899285cefc5fcb4b1afc4@swcp.com> <1118005116.507.0.camel@rachmaninov> <9707a0c8743610dca0f9d280d1b0b23a@mac.com> Message-ID: On Jun 5, 2005, at 7:30 PM, Andre Garzia wrote: > I'd like to go like the open secure socket command where I can simply > choose to ignore verification. Maybe for this specific post you can. Dar -- ********************************************** DSC (Dar Scott Consulting & Dar's Lab) http://www.swcp.com/dsc/ Programming and software ********************************************** From jacque at hyperactivesw.com Sun Jun 5 22:16:25 2005 From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay) Date: Sun, 05 Jun 2005 21:16:25 -0500 Subject: who's out there? In-Reply-To: <0bc7405d90658cc3256ffa73f4f9d677@mac.com> References: <42A322E2.8030304@sover.net> <0bc7405d90658cc3256ffa73f4f9d677@mac.com> Message-ID: <42A3B1F9.6080605@hyperactivesw.com> On 6/5/05 6:20 PM, Bj?rnke von Gierke wrote: > I am also in the process of making the first (as far as i know) > runrev-only coding contest. > this or next week i will announce the details of the coding contest. The > url for it is > http://contest.wecode.org (thanks andre) Any chance you could wait until after the Monterey conference? Many of us will be busy until that is over. -- Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com From soapdog at mac.com Sun Jun 5 22:19:43 2005 From: soapdog at mac.com (Andre Garzia) Date: Sun, 5 Jun 2005 23:19:43 -0300 Subject: HTTPS and Root.pem... In-Reply-To: References: <120f337a5b5899285cefc5fcb4b1afc4@swcp.com> <1118005116.507.0.camel@rachmaninov> <9707a0c8743610dca0f9d280d1b0b23a@mac.com> Message-ID: On Jun 5, 2005, at 11:10 PM, Dar Scott wrote: > Maybe for this specific post you can. > > Dar Dar, I haven't found any optional parameter to the post command that would allow me to ignore that error... is there any? like: post myData to url "https://myserver/mycgi.cgi" without verification :-/ Andre -- Andre Alves Garzia ? 2004 Soap Dog Studios - BRAZIL http://studio.soapdog.org From jacque at hyperactivesw.com Sun Jun 5 22:24:31 2005 From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay) Date: Sun, 05 Jun 2005 21:24:31 -0500 Subject: running rev cgi on Mac OS 8.6 Personal web server? In-Reply-To: <1BD327D1-9062-4144-97E9-E681888AEA45@danshafer.com> References: <20050605052629.62BFEB6B4@xprdmailfe14.nwk.excite.com> <42A32064.40907@hyperactivesw.com> <42A3901F.4040506@hyperactivesw.com> <1BD327D1-9062-4144-97E9-E681888AEA45@danshafer.com> Message-ID: <42A3B3DF.5020001@hyperactivesw.com> On 6/5/05 7:34 PM, Dan Shafer wrote: > My guess is you could be thinking of WebStar (http://www.4d.com/ > products/webstar.html). Right. It had been so long I couldn't remember the name. And per Robert's note, I did mean "AppleEvents", not "AppleScript". Blech, I should give up tonight. ;) > > Dan > > On Jun 5, 2005, at 4:51 PM, J. Landman Gay wrote: > >> On 6/5/05 11:01 AM, Andre Garzia wrote: >> >> > Jacque, >> > >> > do you remember any MacOS Classic webserver that is able to run Rev >> > CGIs? I am trying to remember here but nothing comes to mind.... The >> > only thing I remember is that you can glue WebServer + Applescript >> > middleware + Revolution app. >> >> Right, that is all I remember too. I worked with Apple's web server >> software and HyperCard and Mac OS 7.5 to create an online database >> for a school district many years ago. And yes, we needed to use >> AppleScript to communicate between the server and HyperCard as a CGI. >> HyperCard then formulated HTML pages and sent those back to the server. >> >> Rev could work the same way, I imagine. I haven't written any server >> implementations for OS 9 for many years though. >> >> -- >> Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com >> HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com >> _______________________________________________ >> use-revolution mailing list >> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution >> >> > > > > -- Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com From dsc at swcp.com Sun Jun 5 22:34:58 2005 From: dsc at swcp.com (Dar Scott) Date: Sun, 5 Jun 2005 20:34:58 -0600 Subject: HTTPS and Root.pem... In-Reply-To: References: <120f337a5b5899285cefc5fcb4b1afc4@swcp.com> <1118005116.507.0.camel@rachmaninov> <9707a0c8743610dca0f9d280d1b0b23a@mac.com> Message-ID: <27a143718d0707b6a40900b20eb7c31f@swcp.com> On Jun 5, 2005, at 8:19 PM, Andre Garzia wrote: > I haven't found any optional parameter to the post command that would > allow me to ignore that error... is there any? > > like: post myData to url "https://myserver/mycgi.cgi" without > verification I don't know of any. I'm assuming Dave will jump in soon and give some advice on using libURL. You might have to build your own post and then use open secure without verification. Can you post with your web browser? Or at least get past the authentication? Dar -- ********************************************** DSC (Dar Scott Consulting & Dar's Lab) http://www.swcp.com/dsc/ Programming and software ********************************************** From dsc at swcp.com Sun Jun 5 22:46:49 2005 From: dsc at swcp.com (Dar Scott) Date: Sun, 5 Jun 2005 20:46:49 -0600 Subject: HTTPS and Root.pem... In-Reply-To: <9707a0c8743610dca0f9d280d1b0b23a@mac.com> References: <120f337a5b5899285cefc5fcb4b1afc4@swcp.com> <1118005116.507.0.camel@rachmaninov> <9707a0c8743610dca0f9d280d1b0b23a@mac.com> Message-ID: I've been thinking about your error. On Jun 5, 2005, at 3:08 PM, Andre Garzia wrote: > error -Error with certificate at depth: 1 The depth starts at 0. The error is for the next depth, the signer. > issuer = /C=ZA > /ST=Western Cape > /L=Cape Town > /O=Thawte Consulting cc > /OU=Certification Services Division > /CN=Thawte Server > CA/Email=server-certs at thawte.com > subject = /C=ZA > /O=Thawte Consulting (Pty) Ltd. > /CN=Thawte SSL Domain CA > err 20:unable to get local issuer certificate There are separate errors for expiration, but maybe expiration at this level is enforced by new CA certificates. This sure looks like you have the wrong .pem, try the openSSL with a site you know will work. You should not get the 20. It might be that your server has a forged or old signature. Dar -- ********************************************** DSC (Dar Scott Consulting & Dar's Lab) http://www.swcp.com/dsc/ Programming and software ********************************************** From jacque at hyperactivesw.com Sun Jun 5 23:00:20 2005 From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay) Date: Sun, 05 Jun 2005 22:00:20 -0500 Subject: dump newbie image questiosn In-Reply-To: <42A3A7B2.4000207@sover.net> References: <42A36FBC.7020303@sover.net> <42A39403.1010109@hyperactivesw.com> <42A3A7B2.4000207@sover.net> Message-ID: <42A3BC44.7050604@hyperactivesw.com> On 6/5/05 8:32 PM, Jon wrote: > My viewer is not a standard viewer. I've implemented a variety of > useful features that require that I manage each pixel individually > (basically doing custom and complex brightness and contrast > stretching). Rev is way too slow to do anything like that. I went to your web page and read up on you. ;) Now that I've looked at it, I agree, your viewer is not a standard viewer so I retract my other comments. If you do have to manipulate pixels then the consensus is that Rev is too slow for larger images but okay for thumbnails and icons, etc. We had a thread about this in May: >> When an image is locked this way, its >> contents will *scale* to fit the image object, rather than the object >> scaling to fit the image content. > > True, but it will scale in both directions, distorting it horribly. > This is not useful behavior, unless you want to fill a large space with > a small speck of blue. It's ok for backrgounds, not for actual images. Well, generally we calculate the dimensions before we set the image size. ;) Then it works okay. >> As per above, if you leave the lockloc of the image object set to >> false, the image will automatically resize to the native dimensions. > > As per above, the image will be impossible to see, since it will be so > distorted Images displayed at their native sizes don't distort; maybe I'm not understanding something. > Maybe this is better left as a phone conversation Or we can wait until you get so enthusiastic about Rev that you forget what the learning curve was like. ;) -- Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com From sarahr at genesearch.com.au Sun Jun 5 23:21:30 2005 From: sarahr at genesearch.com.au (Sarah Reichelt) Date: Mon, 6 Jun 2005 13:21:30 +1000 Subject: clear fields In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: > on mouseUp > repeat with x = 1 to the number of flds > put empty into fld x > end repeat > end mouseUp > > Now this works ok except that the card has some labels and the > script clears > the label contents. > I use this sort of script which only clears editable fields. on mouseUp repeat with x = 1 to the number of flds if the lockText of fld x is false then put empty into fld x end repeat end mouseUp Sarah From sarahr at genesearch.com.au Sun Jun 5 23:26:48 2005 From: sarahr at genesearch.com.au (Sarah Reichelt) Date: Mon, 6 Jun 2005 13:26:48 +1000 Subject: Alternating Sizes of a Drawer and a Regular Window In-Reply-To: <7715e1485923d616394a860760d530f5@videotron.ca> References: <7715e1485923d616394a860760d530f5@videotron.ca> Message-ID: <3DA9B30C-26EF-449C-B5DA-503F43CC451C@genesearch.com.au> Hi Greg, > For reasons unknown to me, the following handler does not increase > the height of the window to 538 when it is about to be displayed as > a drawer. > > Greg > > drawer theStack > > on preOpenStack > if the mode of this stack is 13 > then > revChangeWindowSize 261,538 > set the scrollbarWidth of fld "Hit List" to 12 > else > revChangeWindowSize 720,440 > set the scrollbarWidth of fld "Hit List" to 16 > set the loc of this stack to the screenLoc > end if > revUpdateGeometry > end preOpenStack > I solve this by resizing the drawer in my script before opening it. e.g. on openAlarmsDrawer set the height of stack "Alarms" to the height of stack "Main" - 40 drawer stack "Alarms" end openAlarmsDrawer It's always good to remember that you can refer to & edit stacks that are not yet officially open. HTH, Sarah From rjb at robelko.com Sun Jun 5 23:12:43 2005 From: rjb at robelko.com (Robert Brenstein) Date: Mon, 6 Jun 2005 05:12:43 +0200 Subject: running rev cgi on Mac OS 8.6 Personal web server? In-Reply-To: References: <20050605052629.62BFEB6B4@xprdmailfe14.nwk.excite.com> <42A32064.40907@hyperactivesw.com> <42A3901F.4040506@hyperactivesw.com> <51298cc597b38ca34666b360e5c260df@mac.com> Message-ID: >On Jun 5, 2005, at 9:40 PM, Robert Brenstein wrote: > >>Yes, all you need is an appleevent handler that checks for web >>event and replies to it by sending html page. My old starter.cgi is >>still online for those who wants to get rolling faster. >> >>This solution is particularly easy to implement for people with no >>unix background, which is required at least to some degree to >>handle an Apache setup. I am also running Apache/PHP/MySQL service >>and it is surely more work to maintain. >> >>Robert >> > >Robert, > >thanks for pointing me to this thread. I was so lazy a programmer in >the MacOS 8.x days that I never understood how CGIs and HTTP and >AppleEvents worked. I came to figure those things later in MacOS 9.x >and then MacOS X (lucky me I came from linux so unix was something I >was familiar). I remember seeing about ACGI but I could not >understand the thing. Now I just downloaded MacHTTP and read the >manual, it's so clear and I find the design so simple and yet very >macintosh-esque. Could you send your starter.cgi for me to look? I >am planning in stealing some ideas for the next installment of >RevHTTPd. MacHTTP works best under OS 8.6. Under OS 9, it has to be restarted once a while as it hits bugs in TCP. My starter is on http://www.robelko.com/metacard/starter-cgi.html Unfortunately, I just discovered that there is some weird problem with downloading the file. I have reported it already to my IPP and hope they fix it soon (the problem does not come from my doing). If they don't fix it within a couple days, I pull the file out from my archives and send by email. I should probably update it anyway since it seems to be still more or less regularly fetched by someone. I actually have a lot more advanced version of that starter.acgi but keep delaying to make it available to others until I port it to OS X and fix a few known problems. It is basically a framework for simple content management system or extendable acgi, depending how one looks at it. >As of now, RevHTTPd is source compatible with libCGI meaning that >cgis coded for libCGI will work out of the box in RevHTTPd, would be >usefull to expand RevHTTPd so that it could launch ACGI and/or >receive ACGI calls from MacHTTP and WebStar? Do people need this? This would be a handy feature if it worked under OSX but it can't until Apache recognizes apps-in-folders as real apps under OSX. The acgi dispatcher is no rescue as it faces the same problem. This means that such a feature would be limited to OS8 and OS9. But having it will be just a few lines of code, so it may be worth your effort. From what I heard from others, WebStar has some problems with such acgi's and it is doubtful that this will ever get fixed. I haven't tested this myself, though, because Webstar costs money, a chunk of money, whereas MacHTTP is free and open source (as aside, let me remind that WebStar is really a child of MacHTTP -- WebStar 1.0 became what was supposed to be MacHTTP 3.0). There was even a spur of effort to port it to OSX but it fizzled away. Having OSX version of MacHTTP would allow us to run Rev-based cgi's as resident Mac apps offering a simple-to-use alternative to using sockets for inter-app communication (as Pierre always recommends :) and another alternative to Apache-style non-resident cgi's. Robert From jperryl at ecs.fullerton.edu Sun Jun 5 23:36:33 2005 From: jperryl at ecs.fullerton.edu (Judy Perry) Date: Sun, 5 Jun 2005 20:36:33 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Dreamcard Roadster in the future??? - great idea! In-Reply-To: <03276F5E-C0CA-4036-9241-B2716FCF4321@earthlink.net> Message-ID: Yup. It's the 'web ueber alles' mentality that is unfortunately all-too-prevalent, especially in education. I would like to see it done just so that we can say so. Then let it be. Get back to our standalones!!! ;-) Judy On Sun, 5 Jun 2005, Marian Petrides wrote: > Can't answer the question being asked, but I'd like to add my support > for web playback as a built-in (or plug-in) feature of Rev. Even > though I still strongly prefer using standalones for my own apps, > there are plenty of folks out their (read consumers/administrators, > etc.) who are now highly focused on web delivery. > From bvlahos at mac.com Sun Jun 5 23:37:28 2005 From: bvlahos at mac.com (Bill Vlahos) Date: Sun, 5 Jun 2005 20:37:28 -0700 Subject: running rev cgi on Mac OS 8.6 Personal web server? In-Reply-To: References: <20050605052629.62BFEB6B4@xprdmailfe14.nwk.excite.com> <42A32064.40907@hyperactivesw.com> <42A3901F.4040506@hyperactivesw.com> <51298cc597b38ca34666b360e5c260df@mac.com> Message-ID: Andre, I don't really know if people "need" this any more as I suspect that most have moved on to the UNIX way of doing things but it is very cool. If you do implement it then I suspect a number of people would find it interesting. Bill Vlahos On Jun 5, 2005, at 6:47 PM, Andre Garzia wrote: > As of now, RevHTTPd is source compatible with libCGI meaning that cgis > coded for libCGI will work out of the box in RevHTTPd, would be > usefull to expand RevHTTPd so that it could launch ACGI and/or receive > ACGI calls from MacHTTP and WebStar? Do people need this? From rodneys at io.com Sun Jun 5 23:38:17 2005 From: rodneys at io.com (Rodney Somerstein) Date: Sun, 5 Jun 2005 20:38:17 -0700 Subject: Rev. User Groups in the USA? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: I live in the Philadelphia area and would become a member of a local user group if such existed. -Rodney -- Rodney Somerstein Meditation... it's not what you think. rodneys at io.com "Outside of a dog, a book is man's best friend; inside of a dog, it's too dark to read." Groucho Marx From jperryl at ecs.fullerton.edu Sun Jun 5 23:39:45 2005 From: jperryl at ecs.fullerton.edu (Judy Perry) Date: Sun, 5 Jun 2005 20:39:45 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Dreamcard Roadster in the future??? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: But, I thought that access to the Flash file format was the big reason why we can't embed Flash files in Rev. Probably, with the exception of a brave very few souls, most of the ed community (and/or anyone else) doesn't give a flying, flaming fig about Roadster. But any sort of reasonably easy way to put Rev stacks on the web would add to its appeal for certain communities of would-be users. Definitely. Judy On Sun, 5 Jun 2005, Ken Ray wrote: > I think it may actually be better if RunRev wants to consider running > content in a plugin that it consider outputing stacks to Flash and running > them with *that* plugin (since it is so ubiquitous) rather than creating > their own plugin. From jperryl at ecs.fullerton.edu Sun Jun 5 23:45:17 2005 From: jperryl at ecs.fullerton.edu (Judy Perry) Date: Sun, 5 Jun 2005 20:45:17 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Dreamcard Roadster in the future??? In-Reply-To: <9000A0FD-6EBD-466F-A2EB-7A71CCD989A9@major-k.de> Message-ID: Hi Klaus, Yup; this is what I suspected it was. And, while I agree, this simply WILL NOT counter the 'web ueber alles' mentality. Period. Too geeky, too, I don't know what, too soooo not what's happening today or some such thing. In some (unmentioned) communities, it is all but a religious directive to present content (a) on the web and/or (b) in a PowerPoint presentation. That's it. There's simply no reasoning intelligently with some of these people. Give them what they want so that we can stop hearing about it. :-( Judy On Sun, 5 Jun 2005, Klaus Major wrote: > Please read this and spread the URL, so as many people as possible > will get to read this!!!!! > > http://www.fourthworld.com/embassy/articles/netapps.html > > Wonderful read, thanks a lot, Richard! From jperryl at ecs.fullerton.edu Sun Jun 5 23:49:28 2005 From: jperryl at ecs.fullerton.edu (Judy Perry) Date: Sun, 5 Jun 2005 20:49:28 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Dreamcard Roadster in the future??? In-Reply-To: <370162955ae35257bdd1c8a84ff62e8f@mac.com> Message-ID: Andre, It's NOT about logic. It's about dogma. I agree with you. But it's irrelevant. It comes down to this: Do we want some of these people to produce crappy stuff with FrontPage; Do we want the somewhat geekier segment of them doing maybe slightly less crappy stuff in Flash; or do we want them to produce (maybe equally crappy) stuff in Rev that they can put online and ooh and aahhh amongst themselves? I'd rather see them buying Rev. In droves. Plenty of crap is produced using Micro$oft Studio stuff, too. Judy On Sun, 5 Jun 2005, Andre Garzia wrote: > inside a browser plugin is not a good idea in my opnion. People always > talk, let us get Revolution on the web!!!! and stuff like that, I think > Revolution is more than the web. From jperryl at ecs.fullerton.edu Sun Jun 5 23:54:15 2005 From: jperryl at ecs.fullerton.edu (Judy Perry) Date: Sun, 5 Jun 2005 20:54:15 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Beyond the Browser (was Re: Dreamcard Roadster in the future???) In-Reply-To: <8547c19202b1fff2ecee8565be5f80b6@mac.com> Message-ID: I swear I'm gonna start making it required reading in my class, as my CS majors (and probably alot of other people out there, too) are under the impression that multimedia = web-delivered content = Flash or whatever. Not that I'm knocking Flash (but I've sure seen plenty of completely useless, non-compelling Flash stuff online), but I believe it is a fundamental misunderstanding. Judy On Sun, 5 Jun 2005, Andre Garzia wrote: > did you know that I've got that article printed on glossy paper besides > my desk... I read it every week. From sarahr at genesearch.com.au Sun Jun 5 23:57:19 2005 From: sarahr at genesearch.com.au (Sarah Reichelt) Date: Mon, 6 Jun 2005 13:57:19 +1000 Subject: who's out there? In-Reply-To: <42A322E2.8030304@sover.net> References: <42A322E2.8030304@sover.net> Message-ID: <52CF9942-DE43-4296-B576-B5E9570AE760@genesearch.com.au> > I'm curious. How many of you use Rev to make a living, and how > many of you just play with it. I'm at the point where I can't > believe anyone could use it to do serious development. It is just > too buggy, syntax idiosyncrasies and sloth aside. > > And how many of you successfully deploy cross-platform > applications? That is my holy grail, but I'm so far away from that > I can't even imagine it. > Hi Jon, I started as a hobbyist and progressed until a major portion of my day job is programming in Rev. I also do consulting on the side. I guess I am fortunate in that 99% of my work is done on and for Mac OS X so I don't have to worry too much about cross-platform stuff. Before coming to HyperCard & then Rev, I taught myself many different languages. The lower the level of the language, the higher the potential for doing something catastrophic. When teaching myself C, I had to restart my computer every few minutes :-) While I would not say that Rev is perfect, it is very safe. I find it very rarely crashes in the IDE and almost never in standalones. To answer your specific problems: Buggy - well it has bugs (check out Bugzilla) but very few are show- stoppers and most have known workarounds if you ask the list. Syntax idiosyncrasies - any new language must appear idiosyncratic at first, just because it is different to anything you have used previously. If you persevere, you will soon find yourself wondering how you ever used anything else :-) Sloth - I take it from this that you are finding in too slow for your needs. There are many techniques for speeding up script execution. If there is any particular script or operation that you find is taking too long, please let us know and we may be able to point you towards a faster method. Cheers, Sarah From jperryl at ecs.fullerton.edu Sun Jun 5 23:59:43 2005 From: jperryl at ecs.fullerton.edu (Judy Perry) Date: Sun, 5 Jun 2005 20:59:43 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Dreamcard Roadster in the future??? In-Reply-To: <7b3706f260eed62966b4d94717f9f2a8@rpsystems.net> Message-ID: Troy, True enough. But equally, if not more, likely is the arena in which web-delivered content is dogma. I agree with Marian that, in many cases, those in decision-making capacities lack the knowledge or interest in making an intelligent decision in the matter. Try spending 25 years in higher ed, and you'll be a grumpy old woman like me ;-) Judy On Sun, 5 Jun 2005, Troy Rollins wrote: > And often, they are quite correct. Standalones are not *always* a > better solution. Frequently, that "convincing" is actually a > self-serving way of saying "my development tool of choice has no > support for browser delivery." Sadly, there are few tools which succeed > at both forms of delivery. From jperryl at ecs.fullerton.edu Mon Jun 6 00:02:12 2005 From: jperryl at ecs.fullerton.edu (Judy Perry) Date: Sun, 5 Jun 2005 21:02:12 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Dreamcard Roadster in the future??? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Andre: EXACTLY!!! De ja vous! Been there, heard that!! (How can you tell I work at a publicly-funded university?) Judy On Sun, 5 Jun 2005, Andre Garzia wrote: > distance learning tool for those in rural areas. If you could just see > the monster they created, imagine this: HTML + Microsoft Word > documents. I tried to talk to them, it was something along this lines: > > DIRECTOR: "So you think you have a better solution?" > ME: "Yes, I do. In PUC we had a very high level tool which is far more > advanced than this one and far easier to work out" > DIRECTOR: "But it runs in a browser?" > ME: "No, it runs on itself." > DIRECTOR: "It needs to run in a browser!" > ME: "You know, browsers are not operating systems, things should not > need to run in a browser..." > DIRECTOR: "Our current solution runs in a browser." > ME: "Your current solution is an index of word documents and email > chatting. That is not a solution and will be a problem soon." > DIRECTOR: "If it does not runs in a browser, we're not interested." From jperryl at ecs.fullerton.edu Mon Jun 6 00:07:47 2005 From: jperryl at ecs.fullerton.edu (Judy Perry) Date: Sun, 5 Jun 2005 21:07:47 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Dreamcard Roadster in the future??? In-Reply-To: <0ac6915122758c090dcc8761fa451729@qldlearning.com> Message-ID: I don't think that it is the similar (or not) environment that some yearn for; it's the eventual deliverability on Macs and PCs, in this case, with the specificity of "over the web" being the point of interest. Judy On Sun, 5 Jun 2005, Brian Yennie wrote: > Simply put, the majority of Revolution projects use features that don't > exist in Flash. Not to mention that moving from a card metaphor to a > frame metaphor barely even registers... > > I think it's a noble idea, but the two environments are hardly similar > at all... From mwieder at ahsoftware.net Mon Jun 6 01:14:23 2005 From: mwieder at ahsoftware.net (Mark Wieder) Date: Sun, 5 Jun 2005 22:14:23 -0700 Subject: who's out there? In-Reply-To: References: <42A322E2.8030304@sover.net> <0bc7405d90658cc3256ffa73f4f9d677@mac.com> <1F1160BF-163D-43EB-AF24-F5053369052F@danshafer.com> Message-ID: <19147882401.20050605221423@ahsoftware.net> Brian- Thanks. Well put. -- -Mark Wieder mwieder at ahsoftware.net From mwieder at ahsoftware.net Mon Jun 6 01:45:03 2005 From: mwieder at ahsoftware.net (Mark Wieder) Date: Sun, 5 Jun 2005 22:45:03 -0700 Subject: OT: antivirus software and the like In-Reply-To: <42A33616.5050503@sover.net> References: <42A32224.4030203@sover.net> <1273143169.20050605094844@ahsoftware.net> <42A33616.5050503@sover.net> Message-ID: <6949722567.20050605224503@ahsoftware.net> Jon- Sunday, June 5, 2005, 10:27:50 AM, you wrote: J> Any particular reason why you use/like NOD32? Everyone's got personal preferences about system software - it's like text editor preferences - a lot of it depends on what you're used to. I've had nothing but bad experiences with Symantec products over the years. They have a track record of buying up companies with good products and running them into the ground, among them Think C and the Norton line of sofware. It's not for nothing that they've gotten the moniker of "where software goes to die". (I suppose the same could also be said of Computer Associates and Corel...) The problem with utilities like antivirus software is that in order to do their job they need hooks deep into the operating system - they'd be too easy to get around otherwise. I got into the habit over time of installing just a subset of Norton Systemworks on systems in order to minimize the rate of the OS crashing, then finally decided that I needed to find an alternative. The final straw was when I tried to install the latest Norton Systemworks on my newly-installed Windows 2000 Server. Nope. Doesn't install on server products. You need to buy the Corporate version. I don't know if you're familiar with this particular piece of misbegotten bloatware, but its draconian management features make Microsoft look benign. And the combination of it with email clients can (and in my experience has) easily bring CPU usage on a dual processor system to 100% and stay there. When I first installed NOD32 on the server I ran Norton on a workstation as a backup. Did this for about six months. Nothing ever got past NOD32 to the point where Norton could even hiccup. I eventually uninstalled Norton and I've been happy ever since. This is not to say that there aren't other good antivirus programs out there, just that I've found one that a: works on my hardware b: keeps my network safe c: is easy to configure d: mostly stays out of my way We've never had a virus or a worm or a trojan in here. -- -Mark Wieder mwieder at ahsoftware.net From nicolas_cueto at yahoo.com Mon Jun 6 02:09:35 2005 From: nicolas_cueto at yahoo.com (Nicolas Cueto) Date: Mon, 6 Jun 2005 15:09:35 +0900 Subject: dump newbie image questiosn References: <42A36FBC.7020303@sover.net> <42A39403.1010109@hyperactivesw.com><42A3A7B2.4000207@sover.net> <42A3BC44.7050604@hyperactivesw.com> Message-ID: <003e01c56a5e$51085da0$0b01a8c0@niconiko04zbtb> Hello. Sorry to barge in what seems like a private conversation between Jon and Jacqueline about lockLoc and image resizing but it's reminding me of a similar "problem" I had with one of my image-based stacks a long time back. Once upon a time, while my young EFL learners and I were happily studying the English names of shapes using a concentration game stack, I was very surprised to hear the word "rectangle" emitting from the PC speakers when the image on-screen was very much a "square". Looking for the source of this mistake later on, I discovered that the culprit was the lockLoc setting of each image object, Though the original image had indeed been a "rectangle", the lockLoc of the image object forced the "rectangle" to fill in the entire image object -- or, as Jon wrote, it scaled in both directions. My solution then was to create a new rectangle image file, with lots of white space at the top and bottom of the rectangle. But something Jacqueline wrote to Jon is making me think that maybe there's another (easier!) way, i.e.: > Well, generally we calculate the dimensions before we set the image > size. ;) Then it works okay. "Calculate the dimensions"? Can someone explain how to do this with RunRev? (Or is Jacqueline just joking? ;) ) Cause I have to agree with Jon that, at least sometimes, the image object's lockLoc property does cause an ugly distortion of an original image file's size. So, if there's a way around this "ugliness" ... Thanks. Cheers, Nicolas Cueto niconiko language school (J) From yvescoppe at skynet.be Mon Jun 6 02:26:36 2005 From: yvescoppe at skynet.be (Yves COPPE) Date: Mon, 6 Jun 2005 08:26:36 +0200 Subject: Page set Up Message-ID: Hi, on Mac OS X, I'd like to make a "Page Setup" item in the file menu How can I ask the page setup printing dlog just to set the page setup but not for printing something just afterwards ? Thanks. Greetings. Yves COPPE yvescoppe at skynet.be From mwieder at ahsoftware.net Mon Jun 6 02:45:27 2005 From: mwieder at ahsoftware.net (Mark Wieder) Date: Sun, 5 Jun 2005 23:45:27 -0700 Subject: dump newbie image questiosn In-Reply-To: <42A3BC44.7050604@hyperactivesw.com> References: <42A36FBC.7020303@sover.net> <42A39403.1010109@hyperactivesw.com> <42A3A7B2.4000207@sover.net> <42A3BC44.7050604@hyperactivesw.com> Message-ID: <18053346337.20050605234527@ahsoftware.net> Jon- Sunday, June 5, 2005, 8:00:20 PM, Jacque wrote: JLG> I went to your web page and read up on you. ;) Now that I've looked at JLG> it, I agree, your viewer is not a standard viewer so I retract my other Well, I got intrigued and I look in on things, too. I have to agree with Jacque here - You can certainly do your image viewer in runrev, but doing it in Transcript is going to be much too slow. You're going to have to do your image processing in an external DLL for speed. That's not only doable, but there's an example in the external sdk for image processing. However... it's going to complicate any plans you have for cross-platform compatibility unless you write an external library for each operating system you want to target. It's also going to complicate your life a bit since you'll no doubt have to write this in C. I don't know for sure about creating DLLs in Delphi, but I know that Borland's C++ Builder can't create the proper format - you just don't have enough control over the build options. Sheesh - can't you start off with a *simple* project when you're learning a new language and development environment? You're as bad as I am... -- -Mark Wieder mwieder at ahsoftware.net From dcragg at lacscentre.co.uk Mon Jun 6 02:46:56 2005 From: dcragg at lacscentre.co.uk (Dave Cragg) Date: Mon, 6 Jun 2005 07:46:56 +0100 Subject: HTTPS and Root.pem... In-Reply-To: <27a143718d0707b6a40900b20eb7c31f@swcp.com> References: <120f337a5b5899285cefc5fcb4b1afc4@swcp.com> <1118005116.507.0.camel@rachmaninov> <9707a0c8743610dca0f9d280d1b0b23a@mac.com> <27a143718d0707b6a40900b20eb7c31f@swcp.com> Message-ID: <8791CB80-B9AE-4F58-B4F0-3DA79AD49A7B@lacscentre.co.uk> On 6 Jun 2005, at 03:34, Dar Scott wrote: > > On Jun 5, 2005, at 8:19 PM, Andre Garzia wrote: > > >> I haven't found any optional parameter to the post command that >> would allow me to ignore that error... is there any? >> >> like: post myData to url "https://myserver/mycgi.cgi" without >> verification >> > > I don't know of any. I'm assuming Dave will jump in soon and give > some advice on using libURL. You might have to build your own post > and then use open secure without verification. I just woke up. Try the following: libUrlSetSSLVerification false Cheers Dave From wmb at internettrainer.com Mon Jun 6 03:10:07 2005 From: wmb at internettrainer.com (Wolfgang M.Bereuter) Date: Mon, 6 Jun 2005 09:10:07 +0200 Subject: Dreamcard Roadster in the future??? In-Reply-To: References: <20050605193231.D577793016B@mail.runrev.com> Message-ID: <8a0bb91b4d0b4823291f7f0fa1828434@internettrainer.com> On 06.06.2005, at 01:57, Marty Billingsley wrote: > Now, I don't get into the intricacies of RunRev -- I don't use > sockets with it, or any internet protocol stuff -- but for what > we do in my class, being able to save as a shockwave (flash) file > would be fantastic. I tried to convince RR since version 0.x to do that. Without success - unfortunatly! They prefered to do that useless and costly way of annother tool "Dremacard" instead of one modular rev-tool for anybody to build his own developer tool based on the engine. I have given up. If you need a list of alternatives how you can do that with Quicktime or other tools which are able to export swf files drop me a note offline. I wish you all the luck, maybe you can get it;) regards Wolfgang M. Bereuter Ps: In the meantime Quarbon has become very *big* with exactly that idea (Viewlet) in training/education. With an extremly easy UI. T-mapping? is PhotoLearning Mindmaps! ............................... http://www.internettrainer.com wmb at internettrainer.com ............................... Edelhofg. 17/11, A-1180 Wien, Austria Tel: ++43/1/ 479 6410 Fax: ++43/1/ 955 14 64-198 From ridge11103 at btinternet.com Mon Jun 6 04:12:59 2005 From: ridge11103 at btinternet.com (John Ridge) Date: Mon, 06 Jun 2005 09:12:59 +0100 Subject: dump newbie image questiosn In-Reply-To: <42A36FBC.7020303@sover.net> Message-ID: Hi John I was impressed by your exchanges with Jaqueline LG - what you are talking about is way beyond my capability. And Rev's also, she suggests? Anyway, for what it's worth I've put my little stack in the user space - user "jmr", and the stack is called "image testbed". Note that you can grab the image by a mouseDown and move it around. On my rather elderly G4 this gives very jerky movement with large jpegs... Would it help to throw hardware at the problem? -- From: Jon Reply-To: How to use Revolution Date: Sun, 05 Jun 2005 17:33:48 -0400 To: How to use Revolution Subject: Re: dump newbie image questiosn John: Yes, I'm interested. My first learning project was to replicate my Windows image viewer/manipulator in Rev. That ended with some finality when it turned out that Rev runs so slowly that it cannot possibly process all of the pixels in a real image in the time a reasonable user would sit still. Sigh. I'm now working on a special music/video player, again "porting" it from a Windows implementation. It's almost finished (in the sense that all of the features seem to work at least once!), but needs a lot of cosmetic work and then lots of testing. I am displaying guitar tablature in an image along the bottom of the screen. I want the image to "squeeze" into the given box, but NOT be distorted (a fairly obvious need in my opinion). So, I need to write (or steal!) the logic that figures out which dimension needs to be adjusted, and then adjust it, and then use the LockLoc (what a strange and unintuitive name!) to let it expand to fill the properly proportioned image container. A snippet of code would suffice, although I've written this code enough times that I'm sure I could figure it out again. I am more annoyed that I even have to than anything else. The Geometry facility is interesting (and novel to me), but I don't know that it will work at all with the kinds of things I want to do. Because I don't want to distort any images, I will end up altering the shape of the Image object each time an image is loaded. Eventually, it will be easy to lose track of the original shape/size of the "container" into which I was trying to stuff the images. There is a concept missing here, I think: we need THREE image sizes (pixel size on disk, size of largest space available on the screen, and actual space used on the screen) rather than the two (first and last, above) that is currently available. I'm spoiled: all of this was available in a single mode property in my previous IDE. :) Jon John Ridge wrote: >Did you get any response to this query? If so, I've missed it - no surprise, >given the volume! > >I got interested in the issue, and have been playing with the lockLoc >property of the image. I do find the language confusing - the "image" is the >control within which you display a JPEG (say). When lockLoc is true, the >image (the control) stays as is, and the picture is forced to fit within it >- which can lead to massive distortion, of course. When lockLoc is false >(the default) the picture arrives in its native size - so your image may >turn out to be a small window into it. You can grab the image and slide it >around under the window. I've also done a ShrinkToFit handler, but I bet >there are better ways of doing the job! > >If you're interested, I can send the stack to the User Space, or >somewhere... > >Regards, >John > > From IvanSmahin at public.kherson.ua Mon Jun 6 04:50:41 2005 From: IvanSmahin at public.kherson.ua (Ivan Smahin) Date: Mon, 6 Jun 2005 11:50:41 +0300 Subject: Help me please with Revolution 2 Message-ID: Hello All, Another question about Revolution usage. I have some helper stack. Actually there is table-browser stack. If I need to show table contents I just go to that one and perform some methods - here is no problem. But what should I do if I need to show two or more tables simultaneously? E.g. is it a way to use such stack as a class or template for creating as much window-instances as I need? -- Best regards, Ivan mailto:IvanSmahin at public.kherson.ua [Everything is possible. The impossible just takes longer.] _______________________________________________ Valentina mailing list Valentina at lists.macserve.net http://lists.macserve.net/mailman/listinfo/valentina From IvanSmahin at public.kherson.ua Mon Jun 6 04:32:52 2005 From: IvanSmahin at public.kherson.ua (Ivan Smahin) Date: Mon, 6 Jun 2005 11:32:52 +0300 Subject: Help me please with Revolution Message-ID: Hello All, Could someone help me with such issue: Assume there is an empty window (card). Now I need to create a number of labels there *using script*. These labels look like pairs - name-value. Such pairs should be placed in a list manner - from top to bottom. I'm looking over Revolution help - but found nothing. -- Best regards, Ivan mailto:IvanSmahin at public.kherson.ua [Everything is possible. The impossible just takes longer.] _______________________________________________ Valentina mailing list Valentina at lists.macserve.net http://lists.macserve.net/mailman/listinfo/valentina From briany at qldlearning.com Mon Jun 6 06:23:11 2005 From: briany at qldlearning.com (Brian Yennie) Date: Mon, 6 Jun 2005 03:23:11 -0700 Subject: Help me please with Revolution 2 Message-ID: Ivan, Check out the "clone" command- you can use this to make a new separate copy of your stack window. - Brian > Hello All, > > Another question about Revolution usage. > > I have some helper stack. Actually there is table-browser > stack. > If I need to show table contents I just go to that one and > perform > some methods - here is no problem. > > But what should I do if I need to show two or more tables > simultaneously? > E.g. is it a way to use such stack as a class or template for > creating as much > window-instances as I need? > > -- > Best regards, > Ivan mailto:IvanSmahin at public.kherson.ua > > [Everything is possible. The impossible just takes longer.] > > _______________________________________________ > Valentina mailing list > Valentina at lists.macserve.net > http://lists.macserve.net/mailman/listinfo/valentina > > _______________________________________________ > use-revolution mailing list > use-revolution at lists.runrev.com > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution > > From briany at qldlearning.com Mon Jun 6 06:32:26 2005 From: briany at qldlearning.com (Brian Yennie) Date: Mon, 6 Jun 2005 03:32:26 -0700 Subject: Help me please with Revolution Message-ID: <99864033ce1026b9e778a107b6e8f898@qldlearning.com> There are several ways you could do this, but here is one suggestion. I would check out the "clone" and "create" commands, and also the property list for fields. 1) Create one copy of the two fields exactly as you want them, as a template 2) "Group" the two fields, so that you can clone the whole group whenever you need it 3) Script something like: clone group "ValentinaLabelTemplate" set the top of last group to XXX put YYY into fld "name" of last group put ZZZ into fld "value" of last group Also worth checking out- the formattedWidth property will tell you how wide a field must be to display it's contents. HTH, Brian > Hello All, > > Could someone help me with such issue: > > Assume there is an empty window (card). > Now I need to create a number of labels there *using script*. > These labels look like pairs - name-value. > Such pairs should be placed in a list manner - from top to bottom. > > I'm looking over Revolution help - but found nothing. > > > > -- > Best regards, > Ivan mailto:IvanSmahin at public.kherson.ua > > [Everything is possible. The impossible just takes longer.] > > _______________________________________________ > Valentina mailing list > Valentina at lists.macserve.net > http://lists.macserve.net/mailman/listinfo/valentina > > _______________________________________________ > use-revolution mailing list > use-revolution at lists.runrev.com > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution > > From ridge11103 at btinternet.com Mon Jun 6 07:19:09 2005 From: ridge11103 at btinternet.com (John Ridge) Date: Mon, 06 Jun 2005 12:19:09 +0100 Subject: dump newbie image questiosn In-Reply-To: <003e01c56a5e$51085da0$0b01a8c0@niconiko04zbtb> Message-ID: Hi Nicolas I'm not sure if I've understood you fully - but you might find my ShrinkToFit handler helpful - look in user space for user "jmr" - I've only got one stack there. the script is in the File menu button (I know - naughty...) Best of luck John -- From: "Nicolas Cueto" Reply-To: How to use Revolution Date: Mon, 6 Jun 2005 15:09:35 +0900 To: Subject: Re: dump newbie image questiosn "Calculate the dimensions"? Can someone explain how to do this with RunRev? (Or is Jacqueline just joking? ;) ) Cause I have to agree with Jon that, at least sometimes, the image object's lockLoc property does cause an ugly distortion of an original image file's size. So, if there's a way around this "ugliness" ... Thanks. Cheers, Nicolas Cueto niconiko language school (J) From christian.langers at education.lu Mon Jun 6 07:19:22 2005 From: christian.langers at education.lu (Christian Langers) Date: Mon, 6 Jun 2005 13:19:22 +0200 Subject: Page set Up In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <9E2B892F-3E49-4378-A9C2-31CA80E9C8C6@education.lu> Hello Yves, is "answer printer" not what you are looking for ? Cheers, Christian Le 6 juin 05 ? 08:26, Yves COPPE a ?crit : > Hi, > > on Mac OS X, I'd like to make a "Page Setup" item in the file menu > > How can I ask the page setup printing dlog just to set the page > setup but not for printing something just afterwards ? > > Thanks. > > > Greetings. > > Yves COPPE > yvescoppe at skynet.be > > _______________________________________________ > use-revolution mailing list > use-revolution at lists.runrev.com > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution > From yvescoppe at skynet.be Mon Jun 6 07:31:28 2005 From: yvescoppe at skynet.be (Yves COPPE) Date: Mon, 6 Jun 2005 13:31:28 +0200 Subject: Page set Up In-Reply-To: <9E2B892F-3E49-4378-A9C2-31CA80E9C8C6@education.lu> References: <9E2B892F-3E49-4378-A9C2-31CA80E9C8C6@education.lu> Message-ID: Le 6 juin 05, ? 13:19, Christian Langers a ?crit : > Hello Yves, > > is "answer printer" not what you are looking for ? > > > Cheers, > > Christian > > no, it does nothing... Greetings. Yves COPPE yvescoppe at skynet.be From jbondy at sover.net Mon Jun 6 07:33:58 2005 From: jbondy at sover.net (Jon) Date: Mon, 06 Jun 2005 07:33:58 -0400 Subject: image sizing (was "dump newbie image questiosn"( In-Reply-To: <003e01c56a5e$51085da0$0b01a8c0@niconiko04zbtb> References: <42A36FBC.7020303@sover.net> <42A39403.1010109@hyperactivesw.com><42A3A7B2.4000207@sover.net> <42A3BC44.7050604@hyperactivesw.com> <003e01c56a5e$51085da0$0b01a8c0@niconiko04zbtb> Message-ID: <42A434A6.2010100@sover.net> Nick, Jaque: Here's a specific example. I'm writing a music player. The top 300 pixels of the window/stack (no matter how the user resizes the stack) is reserved for some fixed buttons and tables. The remaining height, for the full width of the stack, is reserved for display of guitar tablature. If the user wants to see more/better tablature, the user makes the stack taller. In Delphi and windows, I specify an Image object/component that lives below the fixed objects, and automatically expands to fill all available space below the fixed objects. In Windows this is called Client Alignment. When I put an image (data) into that Image (object), because of properties I set at design time, the image automatically becomes as large as possible, but without distorting, within the original bounds of the Image. If there needs to be white space to the right or below the image, but within the Image, it is all done for me. In Rev, I'm not sure how to get the Image to live below the fixed objects. I guess I make a huge super-group out of all of that stuff, and then have the Image float below the group using Geometry. I then have to inspect the incoming image and change the size of the Image to avoid the distortion. Having every programmer intervene in this way is more complex and more prone to error. And what I'm trying to do is such an obviously desirable behavior: that's why I'm frustrated. I expect to roll my own in special circumstances, but the whole point of Rev is that it is powerful, right? Not in this situation. And not when it comes to Tables. Or processing image pixels. Very primitive and slow. In fact, my player is more complex than described above. There are quite a few "panels" of objects that must move around depending on a variety of things (like "are we playing audio or video", because in the latter case, I have to provide screen real estate for the image; and "are the tablature files present", because I then have to provide space for those images). I'm about to start struggling with how to do this in Rev. The Geometry paradigm is very different than the Align paradigm on Windows/Delphi. Not worse or better, that I can see, but different. And having had the IDE crash when I combined Geometry with On ReSize, I'm gun-shy. I've read about how people use multiple cards stacked behind each other, with each card having virtually identical content. I suppose I could try to design two or three fixed format cards and stack them, but I'm not familiar with the tradeoffs. In Delphi I would NEVER duplicate objects, for fear that they would not synchronize with each other without my manual intervention. How do I put a Table on three cards and have it appear the same on all cards (content if not size and position)? For example, I gather that the Tab object does not work at ALL like in Windows, where each tab has different content. I gather the Tab in Rev just gives the user a signal that a different card is desired, and provides the tab visual. It is up to the user to put the varying content on every card (along with a series of redundant Tabs) and switch between cards manually (again, something that is not required in Delphi/Windows). Many of you keep saying how easy Rev is to use, how powerful, how productive. There are many counter examples, and Tabs seem to be one. :) Jon Nicolas Cueto wrote: >Hello. > >Sorry to barge in what seems like a private conversation >between Jon and Jacqueline about lockLoc and image >resizing but it's reminding me of a similar "problem" I had >with one of my image-based stacks a long time back. > >Once upon a time, while my young EFL learners and I were >happily studying the English names of shapes using a >concentration game stack, I was very surprised to hear >the word "rectangle" emitting from the PC speakers when >the image on-screen was very much a "square". > >Looking for the source of this mistake later on, I discovered >that the culprit was the lockLoc setting of each image object, >Though the original image had indeed been a "rectangle", >the lockLoc of the image object forced the "rectangle" to fill >in the entire image object -- or, as Jon wrote, it scaled in both >directions. > >My solution then was to create a new rectangle image >file, with lots of white space at the top and bottom of >the rectangle. > >But something Jacqueline wrote to Jon is making >me think that maybe there's another (easier!) way, >i.e.: > > > >>Well, generally we calculate the dimensions before we set the image >>size. ;) Then it works okay. >> >> > >"Calculate the dimensions"? Can someone explain how to do this >with RunRev? (Or is Jacqueline just joking? ;) ) > >Cause I have to agree with Jon that, at least sometimes, >the image object's lockLoc property does cause an ugly >distortion of an original image file's size. > >So, if there's a way around this "ugliness" ... > >Thanks. > >Cheers, >Nicolas Cueto >niconiko language school >(J) > >_______________________________________________ >use-revolution mailing list >use-revolution at lists.runrev.com >http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution > > > > From jbondy at sover.net Mon Jun 6 07:37:42 2005 From: jbondy at sover.net (Jon) Date: Mon, 06 Jun 2005 07:37:42 -0400 Subject: dump newbie image questiosn In-Reply-To: <18053346337.20050605234527@ahsoftware.net> References: <42A36FBC.7020303@sover.net> <42A39403.1010109@hyperactivesw.com> <42A3A7B2.4000207@sover.net> <42A3BC44.7050604@hyperactivesw.com> <18053346337.20050605234527@ahsoftware.net> Message-ID: <42A43586.3010409@sover.net> Mark: I have no interest in writing DLLs for every platform. The whole reason I am trying to learn Rev is to avoid this! Delphi can create DLLs. If it worked on the Mac, I wouldn't be here at all. Delphi (Kylix) already runs on Linux... The "hard" part of my image viewer is already done: I've figured out all of the algorithms. All I have to do is translate them into Rev and I'm cross-platform. Too bad it's so slow. Decades ago, when cross-platform compatibility using interpreters was also interesting, there was a system called the p-System. It predated the Apple entirely. In that system, there was a "native code" pragma that allowed one to force small parts of the code to be optimized. Such a facility in Rev would be very powerful. Not trivial, and perhaps not even possible, but powerful. :) Jon Mark Wieder wrote: >Jon- > >Sunday, June 5, 2005, 8:00:20 PM, Jacque wrote: > >JLG> I went to your web page and read up on you. ;) Now that I've looked at >JLG> it, I agree, your viewer is not a standard viewer so I retract my other > >Well, I got intrigued and I look in on things, too. I have to agree >with Jacque here - You can certainly do your image viewer in runrev, >but doing it in Transcript is going to be much too slow. You're going >to have to do your image processing in an external DLL for speed. >That's not only doable, but there's an example in the external sdk for >image processing. > >However... it's going to complicate any plans you have for >cross-platform compatibility unless you write an external library for >each operating system you want to target. It's also going to >complicate your life a bit since you'll no doubt have to write this in >C. I don't know for sure about creating DLLs in Delphi, but I know >that Borland's C++ Builder can't create the proper format - you just >don't have enough control over the build options. > >Sheesh - can't you start off with a *simple* project when you're >learning a new language and development environment? You're as bad as >I am... > > > From alex at tweedly.net Mon Jun 6 07:38:19 2005 From: alex at tweedly.net (Alex Tweedly) Date: Mon, 06 Jun 2005 12:38:19 +0100 Subject: dump newbie image questiosn In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <42A435AB.9060308@tweedly.net> John Ridge wrote: >Hi Nicolas > >I'm not sure if I've understood you fully - but you might find my >ShrinkToFit handler helpful - look in user space for user "jmr" - I've only >got one stack there. the script is in the File menu button (I know - >naughty...) > > > John, I tried to do that, and ran into some problem. I think this is maybe one of the Win vs Mac menu problems (that people on here keep talking about, but I have deliberately kept myself blissfully ignorant :-) (I'm on Win XP) The image "Test" has its location locked, and runs from (0,0) to (1049, 740) - which completely overlaps and obscures the menubar. I had to inspect image "Test", go to Size & Position, deselect "lockLoc" and move it down a little before I could access the menu. Nice demonstration of locked vs not locked ! Actually, I'm really glad I looked at this, because it gets certain photos wrong, in just the same way as my viewer app did. I assumed it was something stupid I was doing, but didn't pursue it. Now that I see the same problem using someone else's stack, I'll look into it a bit more and (hopefully) be able to generate a Bugzilla report for it. -- Alex Tweedly http://www.tweedly.net -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.323 / Virus Database: 267.6.2 - Release Date: 04/06/2005 From jbondy at sover.net Mon Jun 6 07:39:20 2005 From: jbondy at sover.net (Jon) Date: Mon, 06 Jun 2005 07:39:20 -0400 Subject: dump newbie image questiosn In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <42A435E8.8090802@sover.net> John: Thanks for telling me about your stack. Eventually, I would want/need the ability to pan an oversized image, so I will take a look when the time comes. :) Jon John Ridge wrote: >Hi John > >I was impressed by your exchanges with Jaqueline LG - what you are talking >about is way beyond my capability. And Rev's also, she suggests? > >Anyway, for what it's worth I've put my little stack in the user space - >user "jmr", and the stack is called "image testbed". Note that you can grab >the image by a mouseDown and move it around. On my rather elderly G4 this >gives very jerky movement with large jpegs... Would it help to throw >hardware at the problem? > > From jbondy at sover.net Mon Jun 6 07:52:51 2005 From: jbondy at sover.net (Jon) Date: Mon, 06 Jun 2005 07:52:51 -0400 Subject: dump newbie image questiosn In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <42A43913.9030604@sover.net> John: Just FYI, on my Windows system, the stack as delivered almost totally hides the menu... :) Jon John Ridge wrote: >Hi Nicolas > >I'm not sure if I've understood you fully - but you might find my >ShrinkToFit handler helpful - look in user space for user "jmr" - I've only >got one stack there. the script is in the File menu button (I know - >naughty...) > >Best of luck >John > > From jbondy at sover.net Mon Jun 6 07:58:32 2005 From: jbondy at sover.net (Jon) Date: Mon, 06 Jun 2005 07:58:32 -0400 Subject: dump newbie image questiosn In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <42A43A68.8070801@sover.net> John: I like your ShrinkToFit handler quite a lot: it's exactly (well, more or less!) what I was about to write! Thanks! That said, the stack behaves strangely on my machine. I open an image (good!). I close the image (good!). None of the menus work at all (bad!). I switch to another application or two. I come back. The menus work again (good!). Your demonstration is wonderful; I have no idea how/'why the menus are behaving as they are. Thanks for sharing this neat facility with us all! :) Jon John Ridge wrote: >Hi Nicolas > >I'm not sure if I've understood you fully - but you might find my >ShrinkToFit handler helpful - look in user space for user "jmr" - I've only >got one stack there. the script is in the File menu button (I know - >naughty...) > >Best of luck >John > > From jbondy at sover.net Mon Jun 6 08:01:21 2005 From: jbondy at sover.net (Jon) Date: Mon, 06 Jun 2005 08:01:21 -0400 Subject: dump newbie image questiosn In-Reply-To: <42A435AB.9060308@tweedly.net> References: <42A435AB.9060308@tweedly.net> Message-ID: <42A43B11.80709@sover.net> For those of you who are reading this thread, but not taking the time to look at John's (jmr's) stack, his stack is much more than just showing how lockLoc works. His handler does the image scaling so that the image is not distorted. Well worth reading and adopting. And he did it in a much simpler way than I intended to employ! Jon Alex Tweedly wrote: > John Ridge wrote: > >> Hi Nicolas >> >> I'm not sure if I've understood you fully - but you might find my >> ShrinkToFit handler helpful - look in user space for user "jmr" - >> I've only >> got one stack there. the script is in the File menu button (I know - >> naughty...) >> >> >> > John, > > I tried to do that, and ran into some problem. I think this is maybe > one of the Win vs Mac menu problems (that people on here keep talking > about, but I have deliberately kept myself blissfully ignorant :-) > (I'm on Win XP) > > The image "Test" has its location locked, and runs from (0,0) to > (1049, 740) - which completely overlaps and obscures the menubar. I > had to inspect image "Test", go to Size & Position, deselect "lockLoc" > and move it down a little before I could access the menu. > > Nice demonstration of locked vs not locked ! > > Actually, I'm really glad I looked at this, because it gets certain > photos wrong, in just the same way as my viewer app did. I assumed it > was something stupid I was doing, but didn't pursue it. Now that I see > the same problem using someone else's stack, I'll look into it a bit > more and (hopefully) be able to generate a Bugzilla report for it. > From YourSignup at Yahoo.com Mon Jun 6 08:02:21 2005 From: YourSignup at Yahoo.com (Jim Bufalini) Date: Mon, 6 Jun 2005 02:02:21 -1000 Subject: Stack name vs file name indication In-Reply-To: <99864033ce1026b9e778a107b6e8f898@qldlearning.com> Message-ID: Hi, If you have a stack named mystack, which is saved as the file mystack.rev in some directory, and you do a Save As mystack_bak.rev. Are you not now editing in the file mystack_bak.rev? What in the IDE lets you know that you are working with the stack mystack, but in the file mystack_bak.rev vs mystack.rev? Thanks! Jim From Bill at BlueWaterMaritime.com Mon Jun 6 08:07:23 2005 From: Bill at BlueWaterMaritime.com (Bill Humphrey) Date: Mon, 06 Jun 2005 08:07:23 -0400 Subject: clear fields -- a faster way In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <42A43C7B.9070502@BlueWaterMaritime.com> I want to clear fields like this: repeat for each field tField in card "DocApplication" of stack "CustomForms" put empty into tField end repeat but I keep getting the error "bad terminator" -- what am I doing wrong? Sarah Reichelt wrote: >> on mouseUp >> repeat with x = 1 to the number of flds >> put empty into fld x >> end repeat >> end mouseUp >> >> Now this works ok except that the card has some labels and the >> script clears >> the label contents. >> > I use this sort of script which only clears editable fields. > > on mouseUp > repeat with x = 1 to the number of flds > if the lockText of fld x is false then put empty into fld x > end repeat > end mouseUp > > > Sarah > > _______________________________________________ > use-revolution mailing list > use-revolution at lists.runrev.com > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution > > > From martin at materiaprima.fsnet.co.uk Mon Jun 6 07:27:00 2005 From: martin at materiaprima.fsnet.co.uk (Martin Baxter) Date: Mon, 6 Jun 2005 07:27:00 -0400 (EDT) Subject: image sizing (was "dump newbie image questiosn"( In-Reply-To: <42A434A6.2010100@sover.net> References: <003e01c56a5e$51085da0$0b01a8c0@niconiko04zbtb> <42A36FBC.7020303@sover.net> <42A39403.1010109@hyperactivesw.com><42A3A7B2.4000207@sover.net> <42A3BC44.7050604@hyperactivesw.com> <003e01c56a5e$51085da0$0b01a8c0@niconiko04zbtb> Message-ID: >For example, I gather that the Tab object does not work at ALL like in >Windows, where each tab has different content. I gather the Tab in Rev >just gives the user a signal that a different card is desired, and >provides the tab visual. It is up to the user to put the varying >content on every card (along with a series of redundant Tabs) and switch >between cards manually (again, something that is not required in >Delphi/Windows). Many of you keep saying how easy Rev is to use, how >powerful, how productive. There are many counter examples, and Tabs >seem to be one. > >:) > >Jon [other stuff snipped] Jon In RR The tab object is just a special case of menu-style button, and has no content in the sense you mean. There are 2 things you might investigate to help you see how we use them. 1) backgroundbehaviour property of a group. If you make a group on your first card, set its backgroundbehaviour to true and then create a new card, the "backgrounded" group will appear on the new card and all subsequently created cards. Subsequent changes to the group affect it on all cards. Objects that are unique to a given card are added where required separate from the group. You can also "place" such groups into existing cards that do not already include them. 2) A tab button is frequently used as a sort of menu to navigate between cards, but there is another common way to use it which is to hide and show groups of controls in response to tab clicks. I do it this way myself as I just have a personal preference for single-card stacks. Since the menupick message, that is sent when you click on a tab button, comes with 2 parameters giving the name of the tab clicked and the name of the selected tab prior to the click, I find this quite easy to manage. Martin Baxter From Signe.Sanne at roman.uib.no Mon Jun 6 08:11:52 2005 From: Signe.Sanne at roman.uib.no (Signe Marie Sanne) Date: Mon, 06 Jun 2005 14:11:52 +0200 Subject: Database saved as custom property Message-ID: <42A43D88.6000108@roman.uib.no> Hello, Since someone a week ago said he had not ventured into custom properties, I have uploaded a very simple stack which shows how you make a small archive stack and save it as a custom property, all with just one card. On RevOnLine you will find it under my user name "sms", or under Categories -->Programming. Its name is CustPropDatabase. -- Signe Marie Sanne 1. amanuensis/Senior lecturer Romansk institutt Tlf. +47 55 58 21 27 ?isteins gt. 1 Epost: signe.sanne at roman.uib.no Universitetet i Bergen http://www.hf.uib.no/hfolk/mlab/Info/sms.html From klaus at major-k.de Mon Jun 6 08:16:15 2005 From: klaus at major-k.de (Klaus Major) Date: Mon, 6 Jun 2005 14:16:15 +0200 Subject: clear fields -- a faster way In-Reply-To: <42A43C7B.9070502@BlueWaterMaritime.com> References: <42A43C7B.9070502@BlueWaterMaritime.com> Message-ID: <973F7F90-5CF2-41F6-86C3-B6FF1BD4FE4D@major-k.de> Hi Bill, > I want to clear fields like this: > > repeat for each field tField in card "DocApplication" of stack > "CustomForms" > put empty into tField > end repeat > > but I keep getting the error "bad terminator" -- what am I doing > wrong? sorry, but "repeat for each..." will only work with chunk expressions. You will hve to use good ol': repeat with i = 1 to the num of flds of cd "DocApplication" of stack "CustomForms" put emtpy into fld i of cd "DocApplication" of stack "CustomForms" end repeat Hope that helps... Regards Klaus Major klaus at major-k.de http://www.major-k.de From ridge11103 at btinternet.com Mon Jun 6 08:44:57 2005 From: ridge11103 at btinternet.com (John Ridge) Date: Mon, 06 Jun 2005 13:44:57 +0100 Subject: dump newbie image questiosn In-Reply-To: <42A435AB.9060308@tweedly.net> Message-ID: on 6/6/05 12:38 pm, Alex Tweedly wrote : snip John, I tried to do that, and ran into some problem. I think this is maybe one of the Win vs Mac menu problems (that people on here keep talking about, but I have deliberately kept myself blissfully ignorant :-) (I'm on Win XP) The image "Test" has its location locked, and runs from (0,0) to (1049, 740) - which completely overlaps and obscures the menubar. I had to inspect image "Test", go to Size & Position, deselect "lockLoc" and move it down a little before I could access the menu. Nice demonstration of locked vs not locked ! Actually, I'm really glad I looked at this, because it gets certain photos wrong, in just the same way as my viewer app did. I assumed it was something stupid I was doing, but didn't pursue it. Now that I see the same problem using someone else's stack, I'll look into it a bit more and (hopefully) be able to generate a Bugzilla report for it. I've been modifying the stack a bit, so I hope it is less unfriendly now! I guess the version I uploaded happened to be showing a large window - never thought of that snag... Can you give it another whirl? It should get photos "right" if you use the first "Open" option, with lockLocation set to false - it only gets them wrong if you use the second Open, with lockLocation set to true. This does seem to be the behaviour that the documentation describes. There certainly are problems - why do I have to empty the image and reset the image size between "Opens"? Beats me... -- From ridge11103 at btinternet.com Mon Jun 6 08:49:19 2005 From: ridge11103 at btinternet.com (John Ridge) Date: Mon, 06 Jun 2005 13:49:19 +0100 Subject: dump newbie image questiosn In-Reply-To: <42A43A68.8070801@sover.net> Message-ID: on 6/6/05 12:58 pm, Jon wrote : John: I like your ShrinkToFit handler quite a lot: it's exactly (well, more or less!) what I was about to write! Thanks! That said, the stack behaves strangely on my machine. I open an image (good!). I close the image (good!). None of the menus work at all (bad!). I switch to another application or two. I come back. The menus work again (good!). Your demonstration is wonderful; I have no idea how/'why the menus are behaving as they are. Thanks for sharing this neat facility with us all! :) snip Jon, sorry to have got your name wrong earlier. Duh! Can you try the stack again in its revised form. I hope the menu behaviour is now a bit less bizarre. But the fact is I wrote it and tested it only on a Mac (OS 9.2) - I'm not sure how x-platform Rev really is. I have moved a couple of standalones to XP, and both times found that my windows were too big... -- From ridge11103 at btinternet.com Mon Jun 6 09:10:24 2005 From: ridge11103 at btinternet.com (John Ridge) Date: Mon, 06 Jun 2005 14:10:24 +0100 Subject: Database saved as custom property In-Reply-To: <42A43D88.6000108@roman.uib.no> Message-ID: on 6/6/05 1:11 pm, Signe Marie Sanne wrote : Hello, Since someone a week ago said he had not ventured into custom properties, I have uploaded a very simple stack which shows how you make a small archive stack and save it as a custom property, all with just one card. On RevOnLine you will find it under my user name "sms", or under Categories -->Programming. Its name is CustPropDatabase. Marvellous! Now it is not so frightening... I need to think hard about this solution - are there any serious size limitations? If it could replace 1000 cards, some containing c. 100k text, it would be FAST... -- From alex at tweedly.net Mon Jun 6 09:20:34 2005 From: alex at tweedly.net (Alex Tweedly) Date: Mon, 06 Jun 2005 14:20:34 +0100 Subject: dump newbie image questiosn In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <42A44DA2.1010101@tweedly.net> John Ridge wrote: >I've been modifying the stack a bit, so I hope it is less unfriendly now! I >guess the version I uploaded happened to be showing a large window - never >thought of that snag... > >Can you give it another whirl? It should get photos "right" if you use the >first "Open" option, with lockLocation set to false - it only gets them >wrong if you use the second Open, with lockLocation set to true. > >This does seem to be the behaviour that the documentation describes. There >certainly are problems - why do I have to empty the image and reset the >image size between "Opens"? Beats me... > > Thanks John - that now lets me at the menus properly. Re the problem of showing some photos "wrong" - I should have been more clear. It's not your problem - it's (I think) a bug in Rev's handling of scaled images - it gets certain images wrong whenever it scales them. Most images show correctly in all three of the "open" variations in your stack. But certain photos don't; they show correctly when I use "open without scaling" - but both other versions of open (and my own viewer) get these photos horribly wrong. The left portion of the photo is correct - but then it starts to get streaky, and by the time you get to the right of the photo, it is showing only streaks. You can download a sample "bad" photo from www.tweedly.net/IMGP0635.JPG - but beware it's 1.5Mb (btw - it shows a crowd of us from the EuroRevCon 2004 in beautiful Malta !!) This photo looks fine in Windows viewer, and in Photoshop, and in ..... and unscaled in Rev, but not when scaled. I have only seen this problem on large photos - my camera produces 3000x2000 pixels - though I haven't yet experimented much; until today I had assumed *I* was doing something wrong :-) -- Alex Tweedly http://www.tweedly.net -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.323 / Virus Database: 267.6.2 - Release Date: 04/06/2005 From Bill at BlueWaterMaritime.com Mon Jun 6 09:28:41 2005 From: Bill at BlueWaterMaritime.com (Bill Humphrey) Date: Mon, 06 Jun 2005 09:28:41 -0400 Subject: Database Query Builder -- errors In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <42A44F89.9000408@BlueWaterMaritime.com> In case anyone else wants to use this great thing extensively then when designing your databases always use unique names for every column even when in different tables because if you refer to a column as tablename1.shipID and another one as tablename2.shipID even though SQL is happy with this the database query builder update feature will choke. And if you use SQLite which won't allow you to alter tables then you will be in trouble. Also when you have many joins in your query use the index for the fields you are most likely to want to change (this error is not as perfectly repeatable). Should I bugzilla this? > > From gefisher at mac.com Mon Jun 6 09:39:34 2005 From: gefisher at mac.com (Glenn E. Fisher) Date: Mon, 6 Jun 2005 08:39:34 -0500 Subject: Rev. User Groups in the USA (RUGs/USA)? Message-ID: Ralph, I live in the Houston, Texas area and would be interested in a say southwest region RUG. Any other people in this area? Thanks for doing this Ralph. Best regards, Glenn > All, > > The list of you interested Rev. Users Groups is growing. It looks very > promising for the Mid-Atlantic/South Eastern US region ay this point. > > I expect to be in the Atlanta area (attending a Convention) July > 20th-23nd. I would like to hear from anyone who might like to meet > informally to discuss RUGs and/or any future Rev. Users gatherings. > > Also I'd like to hear from anyone else interested in Rev. User Groups > and or Rev. Users gatherings. I can serve as a focal point for > "RUGs/USA" information. > > Please feel free to contact me off-list at ralf at dol.net if you prefer, > > More Later and TAKE CARE, > Ralph -- Glenn E. Fisher University of Houston - Retired 22402 Diane Dr. Spring, Tx 77373 gfisher4 at houston.rr.com http://www.uh.edu/~fisher http://home.houston.rr.com/thegefishers/ http://homepage.mac.com/gefisher From got at mindspring.com Mon Jun 6 09:45:40 2005 From: got at mindspring.com (Gordon Tillman) Date: Mon, 6 Jun 2005 08:45:40 -0500 Subject: Rev. User Groups in the USA (RUGs/USA)? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Glenn I'm in Humble (basically a suburb of Houston). I would definitely be interesting in participating in a RUG meeting! --gordon On Jun 6, 2005, at 08:39, Glenn E. Fisher wrote: > Ralph, > I live in the Houston, Texas area and would be interested in a say > southwest region RUG. Any other people in this area? > Thanks for doing this Ralph. > > Best regards, > Glenn > > >> All, >> >> The list of you interested Rev. Users Groups is growing. It looks >> very promising for the Mid-Atlantic/South Eastern US region ay >> this point. >> >> I expect to be in the Atlanta area (attending a Convention) July >> 20th-23nd. I would like to hear from anyone who might like to meet >> informally to discuss RUGs and/or any future Rev. Users gatherings. >> >> Also I'd like to hear from anyone else interested in Rev. User >> Groups and or Rev. Users gatherings. I can serve as a focal point >> for "RUGs/USA" information. >> >> Please feel free to contact me off-list at ralf at dol.net if you >> prefer, >> >> More Later and TAKE CARE, >> Ralph From marty at vertex.ucls.uchicago.edu Mon Jun 6 09:56:24 2005 From: marty at vertex.ucls.uchicago.edu (Marty Billingsley) Date: Mon, 6 Jun 2005 08:56:24 -0500 (CDT) Subject: Dreamcard Roadster in the future??? In-Reply-To: <20050606091916.A24929300CA@mail.runrev.com> References: <20050606091916.A24929300CA@mail.runrev.com> Message-ID: Judy Perry writes: > > Yup. It's the 'web ueber alles' mentality that is unfortunately > all-too-prevalent, especially in education. > > I would like to see it done just so that we can say so. Then let it be. > Get back to our standalones!!! ;-) For many teachers, especially in public schools, installing standalone apps is an impossibility. The only way to allow many of these teachers access to new "software" is through the web. And the appropriate plugin would already have to be installed -- the teachers won't have permissions to install *anything*. Hence my suggestion that RR try to piggyback off the shockwave plugin. (Granted, I have no idea whether that's technologically feasible or not.) I'm so lucky that I maintain the computer lab I teach in, but I see a lot of public school teachers with their hands tied. If we'd like to make software for these teachers to use with their students, we'll have more success if it's web-deliverable. - marty -- Marty Billingsley (marty at ucls.uchicago.edu) The University of Chicago Laboratory Schools From ridge11103 at btinternet.com Mon Jun 6 10:22:21 2005 From: ridge11103 at btinternet.com (John Ridge) Date: Mon, 06 Jun 2005 15:22:21 +0100 Subject: Transitive? Message-ID: BBC News reports "Technology news site The Register also reports that Apple has licensed technology from a company called Transitive which makes software that makes it easier to port programs on to different chip architectures" If the current rumours are correct, is Revolution stymied? If, by magic, apps developed on any platform can be run without change on any other, what need is there for cross-platform tools like Rev? Still a fascinating IDE, but it's lost a major selling point... Is Transitive real? -- From Signe.Sanne at roman.uib.no Mon Jun 6 10:49:34 2005 From: Signe.Sanne at roman.uib.no (Signe Marie Sanne) Date: Mon, 06 Jun 2005 16:49:34 +0200 Subject: Database saved as custom property In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <42A4627E.4080000@roman.uib.no> John Ridge skrev: > on 6/6/05 1:11 pm, Signe Marie Sanne wrote : > > Hello, > Since someone a week ago said he had not ventured into custom properties, I > have uploaded a very simple stack which shows how you make a small archive > stack and save it as a custom property, all with just one card. On RevOnLine > you will find it under my user name "sms", or under Categories > -->Programming. Its name is CustPropDatabase. > > Marvellous! Now it is not so frightening... I need to think hard about this > solution - are there any serious size limitations? If it could replace 1000 > cards, some containing c. 100k text, it would be FAST... Glad you liked it. It is actually a very useful way of handling data. Since I discovered it, I have gradually replaced my many data cards in each stack with only one single data card with custom properties. I do not know about size limitations, others have to answer that. In my project for the Indian dialect Boruca, I use 143 various custom properties totalling 1700 lines of data. This is for teaching the dialect itself (vocabulary training, gapfilling and translation exercises and other types of exercises/games + grammatical analysis of the corpus + vocabulario in which a certain word can be seen in all the contexts in which it occurs). -- Signe Marie Sanne 1. amanuensis/Senior lecturer Romansk institutt Tlf. +47 55 58 21 27 ?isteins gt. 1 Epost: signe.sanne at roman.uib.no Universitetet i Bergen http://www.hf.uib.no/hfolk/mlab/Info/sms.html From klaus at major-k.de Mon Jun 6 10:56:48 2005 From: klaus at major-k.de (Klaus Major) Date: Mon, 6 Jun 2005 16:56:48 +0200 Subject: Database saved as custom property In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4B530BFC-8CF7-49FA-999F-F7FC07504DD0@major-k.de> Hi John, > on 6/6/05 1:11 pm, Signe Marie Sanne wrote : > > Hello, > Since someone a week ago said he had not ventured into custom > properties, I > have uploaded a very simple stack which shows how you make a small > archive > stack and save it as a custom property, all with just one card. On > RevOnLine > you will find it under my user name "sms", or under Categories > -->Programming. Its name is CustPropDatabase. > > Marvellous! Now it is not so frightening... I need to think hard > about this > solution - are there any serious size limitations? Well, nothing to worry about, i think ;-) You can have upt ot 4 GB of custom properties per object! Each of them can hold up to 4 GB of characters... Only drawback: A stack can only be up to 4 GB in size ;-) > If it could replace 1000 > cards, some containing c. 100k text, it would be FAST... Regards Klaus Major klaus at major-k.de http://www.major-k.de From soapdog at mac.com Mon Jun 6 10:58:15 2005 From: soapdog at mac.com (Andre Garzia) Date: Mon, 6 Jun 2005 11:58:15 -0300 Subject: Transitive? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <0a912153fa770656360fe61f2fd2dab8@mac.com> On Jun 6, 2005, at 11:22 AM, John Ridge wrote: > Still a fascinating IDE, but it's lost a major selling point... Is > Transitive real? I do think that the president of Transitive is in fact a guy that was COO of NeXT, so at least he knows a trick or two about architectures. it smells vapour to me two hours to that damn keynote. If apple switch for x86, I'll switch to amigaOne. -- Andre Alves Garzia ? 2004 Soap Dog Studios - BRAZIL http://studio.soapdog.org From troy at rpsystems.net Mon Jun 6 10:59:14 2005 From: troy at rpsystems.net (Troy Rollins) Date: Mon, 6 Jun 2005 10:59:14 -0400 Subject: Dreamcard Roadster in the future??? In-Reply-To: References: <20050606091916.A24929300CA@mail.runrev.com> Message-ID: <5989799ddd3d0dd1b1e338e698cbf34c@rpsystems.net> On Jun 6, 2005, at 9:56 AM, Marty Billingsley wrote: > I'm so lucky that I maintain the computer lab I teach in, but I > see a lot of public school teachers with their hands tied. If > we'd like to make software for these teachers to use with their > students, we'll have more success if it's web-deliverable. Fortunately, there are tools that do that. Don't underestimate the fantastic expense Macromedia has gone to in order to create, and maintain, their plugins. You will also note that all the other applications that make SWF files (which are not Flash) are extremely limited in their scope - primarily animation, and simple interactivity. The full range of scripting SWF is really available to Flash alone. Piggy-backing, as I've mentioned, would be pretty foolhardy, as it would be crazy expensive, and it would rely on Adobe/Macromedia not modifying the plug in. Perhaps the people operating under the browser limitations are selecting the wrong tool, and then expecting (or desiring) the tool to change in ways that are pretty much impossible? -- Troy From soapdog at mac.com Mon Jun 6 11:05:23 2005 From: soapdog at mac.com (Andre Garzia) Date: Mon, 6 Jun 2005 12:05:23 -0300 Subject: HTTPS and Root.pem... In-Reply-To: <8791CB80-B9AE-4F58-B4F0-3DA79AD49A7B@lacscentre.co.uk> References: <120f337a5b5899285cefc5fcb4b1afc4@swcp.com> <1118005116.507.0.camel@rachmaninov> <9707a0c8743610dca0f9d280d1b0b23a@mac.com> <27a143718d0707b6a40900b20eb7c31f@swcp.com> <8791CB80-B9AE-4F58-B4F0-3DA79AD49A7B@lacscentre.co.uk> Message-ID: <71da43d2762c271a711eadfbb5bab9b8@mac.com> On Jun 6, 2005, at 3:46 AM, Dave Cragg wrote: > I just woke up. > > > Try the following: > > libUrlSetSSLVerification false > > Cheers > Dave > Dave, THANK YOU FOR EVER!!!!! Most people hate undocumented functions, I just love when I discover a hidden one line gem that will solve my problem! I am sure there are more functions like this and that inside RunRev secret labs they have the time travel external that would allow us to use "send dontDivideByZeroYouMoron to this stack in -2 minutes" after something goes wrong. :D Dave Thanks again! Cheers andre -- Andre Alves Garzia ? 2004 ? BRAZIL http://studio.soapdog.org From devin_asay at byu.edu Mon Jun 6 01:01:46 2005 From: devin_asay at byu.edu (Devin Asay) Date: Sun, 05 Jun 2005 23:01:46 -0600 Subject: Audio problems In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <633ec3f5d0b238065aa6630652d412fd@byu.edu> On Jun 5, 2005, at 5:08 PM, Brad Borch wrote: > I can't get any settings but RAW codec to record. I get static or > worse with other settings. I also can't get MP3's to play from within > Revolution. I'm using Dreamcard 2.5.1 on a Mac 10.3.9, Quicktime 7. Brad, Don't try to record or play compressed sounds unless you are using (1) a player object to play back or (2) have set the recordFormat to QuickTime for recording sounds. The native playback and recording in Rev just don't handle compressions. You have to go through QuickTime for that. Devin Devin Asay Humanities Technology and Research Support Center Brigham Young University From b.xavier at internet.lu Mon Jun 6 11:16:32 2005 From: b.xavier at internet.lu (MisterX) Date: Mon, 6 Jun 2005 17:16:32 +0200 Subject: Database saved as custom property In-Reply-To: <4B530BFC-8CF7-49FA-999F-F7FC07504DD0@major-k.de> Message-ID: <20050606143328.3F053930078@mail.runrev.com> Klaus > > If it could replace 1000 > > cards, some containing c. 100k text, it would be FAST... but then setting back the text-styles (set the htmltext of fld x to the xos[thisprop] of me) would penalize the speed in favor of card based databases wouldn't it? Also, tracking what record, updating index, etc gets in the way... The reason i say this is that other than for listing array keys or looping (questionable) arrays are faster but in searching information, or compared to any descent indexed field scheme, you have little speed difference in practical terms of data extraction from arrays compared to cards. I'll be visiting different database formats soon, i'll keep ya all posted! cheers Xavier From lists at mangomultimedia.com Mon Jun 6 11:17:31 2005 From: lists at mangomultimedia.com (Trevor DeVore) Date: Mon, 6 Jun 2005 08:17:31 -0700 Subject: Database Query Builder -- errors In-Reply-To: <42A44F89.9000408@BlueWaterMaritime.com> References: <42A44F89.9000408@BlueWaterMaritime.com> Message-ID: On Jun 6, 2005, at 6:28 AM, Bill Humphrey wrote: > In case anyone else wants to use this great thing extensively then > when designing your databases always use unique names for every > column even when in different tables because if you refer to a > column as tablename1.shipID and another one as tablename2.shipID > even though SQL is happy with this the database query builder > update feature will choke. You could probably get around this by doing: SELECT tablename1.shipID AS ShipID1, tablename2.shipID AS ShipID2... -- Trevor DeVore Blue Mango Multimedia trevor at mangomultimedia.com From ralf at dol.net Mon Jun 6 11:16:31 2005 From: ralf at dol.net (Ralph R. Forehand) Date: Mon, 6 Jun 2005 11:16:31 -0400 Subject: Rev. User Groups in the USA (RUGs/USA)? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Glenn; You wrote; >I live in the Houston, Texas area and would be interested in a say southwest region RUG. Any other people in this area? Thank You Very Much for your interest and response. I've added you into our list of interested Rev. Users I'm compiling and will keep you informed as we go along. >Thanks for doing this Ralph. You are welcomed and your compliment is appreciated. Thanks Again, More Later and TAKE CARE, Ralph From ralf at dol.net Mon Jun 6 11:15:08 2005 From: ralf at dol.net (Ralph R. Forehand) Date: Mon, 6 Jun 2005 11:15:08 -0400 Subject: Rev. User Groups in the USA? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: You wrote; >I live in the Philadelphia area and would become a member of a local user group if such existed. Rodney, Thank You Very Much for your interest and response. I've added you into our list of interested Rev. Users I'm compiling and will keep you informed as we go along. I live down the road, in Elkton, MD, so that's two of us in this area.:-)) SO FAR!! Thanks Again, More Later and TAKE CARE, Ralph From dsc at swcp.com Mon Jun 6 11:25:57 2005 From: dsc at swcp.com (Dar Scott) Date: Mon, 6 Jun 2005 09:25:57 -0600 Subject: HTTPS and Root.pem... In-Reply-To: <71da43d2762c271a711eadfbb5bab9b8@mac.com> References: <120f337a5b5899285cefc5fcb4b1afc4@swcp.com> <1118005116.507.0.camel@rachmaninov> <9707a0c8743610dca0f9d280d1b0b23a@mac.com> <27a143718d0707b6a40900b20eb7c31f@swcp.com> <8791CB80-B9AE-4F58-B4F0-3DA79AD49A7B@lacscentre.co.uk> <71da43d2762c271a711eadfbb5bab9b8@mac.com> Message-ID: <3da4429dda679c67dd80cb49dc7b1b30@swcp.com> On Jun 6, 2005, at 9:05 AM, Andre Garzia wrote: >> libUrlSetSSLVerification false > THANK YOU FOR EVER!!!!! In some uses this is what is desired and needed. In your case, Andre, I suspect you need this for development and demo, but something is wrong that still has to be resolved. I wish you well on that. Yesterday, you were writing "post" and, in my tiredness, I kept reading "put", so my comments might be weird. Dar -- ********************************************** DSC (Dar Scott Consulting & Dar's Lab) http://www.swcp.com/dsc/ Programming and software ********************************************** From soapdog at mac.com Mon Jun 6 11:34:01 2005 From: soapdog at mac.com (Andre Garzia) Date: Mon, 6 Jun 2005 12:34:01 -0300 Subject: HTTPS and Root.pem... In-Reply-To: <3da4429dda679c67dd80cb49dc7b1b30@swcp.com> References: <120f337a5b5899285cefc5fcb4b1afc4@swcp.com> <1118005116.507.0.camel@rachmaninov> <9707a0c8743610dca0f9d280d1b0b23a@mac.com> <27a143718d0707b6a40900b20eb7c31f@swcp.com> <8791CB80-B9AE-4F58-B4F0-3DA79AD49A7B@lacscentre.co.uk> <71da43d2762c271a711eadfbb5bab9b8@mac.com> <3da4429dda679c67dd80cb49dc7b1b30@swcp.com> Message-ID: <4cc561edf0b146568b5c8d1396634646@mac.com> On Jun 6, 2005, at 12:25 PM, Dar Scott wrote: > In some uses this is what is desired and needed. In your case, Andre, > I suspect you need this for development and demo, but something is > wrong that still has to be resolved. I wish you well on that. > > Yesterday, you were writing "post" and, in my tiredness, I kept > reading "put", so my comments might be weird. > > Dar Dar and Dave, without the help of you guys I'd be nowhere. I understand there's something wrong with the cert, and I won't ship the product with that false flag on but I need it now so that I can move to the next step of my development, time is whooshing away fast, with the aid of that flag, I can now trust the HTTPS keyword to do it's job and won't need to low level implement my own https request using open secure socket. This will speed up things, maybe today or tomorrow I'll finish everything. (... and now I know much more about https and certificates! spent more then 10 hours each day for the last 3 days working this thing out) thank you guys! andre > -- Andre Alves Garzia ? 2004 Soap Dog Studios - BRAZIL http://studio.soapdog.org From see3d at writeme.com Mon Jun 6 11:35:07 2005 From: see3d at writeme.com (Dennis Brown) Date: Mon, 06 Jun 2005 11:35:07 -0400 Subject: Database saved as custom property In-Reply-To: <4B530BFC-8CF7-49FA-999F-F7FC07504DD0@major-k.de> References: <4B530BFC-8CF7-49FA-999F-F7FC07504DD0@major-k.de> Message-ID: <05DB1FB8-0470-4072-B614-2A27F6C7BA4C@writeme.com> John, I believe we are still limited to about 2GB of total stack size at present according to recent posts. Dennis On Jun 6, 2005, at 10:56 AM, Klaus Major wrote: > Hi John, > > >> on 6/6/05 1:11 pm, Signe Marie Sanne wrote : >> >> Hello, >> Since someone a week ago said he had not ventured into custom >> properties, I >> have uploaded a very simple stack which shows how you make a small >> archive >> stack and save it as a custom property, all with just one card. On >> RevOnLine >> you will find it under my user name "sms", or under Categories >> -->Programming. Its name is CustPropDatabase. >> >> Marvellous! Now it is not so frightening... I need to think hard >> about this >> solution - are there any serious size limitations? >> > > Well, nothing to worry about, i think ;-) > > You can have upt ot 4 GB of custom properties per object! > Each of them can hold up to 4 GB of characters... > > Only drawback: A stack can only be up to 4 GB in size ;-) > > >> If it could replace 1000 >> cards, some containing c. 100k text, it would be FAST... >> > > Regards > > Klaus Major > klaus at major-k.de > http://www.major-k.de > > _______________________________________________ > use-revolution mailing list > use-revolution at lists.runrev.com > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution > From b.xavier at internet.lu Mon Jun 6 11:42:36 2005 From: b.xavier at internet.lu (MisterX) Date: Mon, 6 Jun 2005 17:42:36 +0200 Subject: Database saved as custom property In-Reply-To: <05DB1FB8-0470-4072-B614-2A27F6C7BA4C@writeme.com> Message-ID: <20050606145932.7F97E9300E6@mail.runrev.com> Guys, is this going somewhere? Custom props, card objects, stacks, even sql has limits. Any 2GBs of anything can be split into smaller components! Smaller components are de facto faster to access - i'll let you do the algebra (or diff equ's if you prefer)... Put all your eggs in one basket and you know what happens eventually... No revolutionary ideas i can think of! To manage 10000 troops is the same as managing a few, It's a question of order and organization. cheers Xavier > -----Original Message----- > From: use-revolution-bounces at lists.runrev.com > [mailto:use-revolution-bounces at lists.runrev.com] On Behalf Of > Dennis Brown > Sent: Monday, June 06, 2005 17:35 > To: How to use Revolution > Subject: Re: Database saved as custom property > > John, > > I believe we are still limited to about 2GB of total stack > size at present according to recent posts. > > Dennis > > On Jun 6, 2005, at 10:56 AM, Klaus Major wrote: > > > Hi John, > > > > > >> on 6/6/05 1:11 pm, Signe Marie Sanne wrote : > >> > >> Hello, > >> Since someone a week ago said he had not ventured into custom > >> properties, I have uploaded a very simple stack which > shows how you > >> make a small archive stack and save it as a custom > property, all with > >> just one card. On RevOnLine you will find it under my user name > >> "sms", or under Categories > >> -->Programming. Its name is CustPropDatabase. > >> > >> Marvellous! Now it is not so frightening... I need to think hard > >> about this solution - are there any serious size limitations? > >> > > > > Well, nothing to worry about, i think ;-) > > > > You can have upt ot 4 GB of custom properties per object! > > Each of them can hold up to 4 GB of characters... > > > > Only drawback: A stack can only be up to 4 GB in size ;-) > > > > > >> If it could replace 1000 > >> cards, some containing c. 100k text, it would be FAST... > >> > > > > Regards > > > > Klaus Major > > klaus at major-k.de > > http://www.major-k.de > > > > _______________________________________________ > > use-revolution mailing list > > use-revolution at lists.runrev.com > > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution > > > > _______________________________________________ > use-revolution mailing list > use-revolution at lists.runrev.com > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution > From geoff at runrev.com Mon Jun 6 11:45:32 2005 From: geoff at runrev.com (Geoff Canyon) Date: Mon, 6 Jun 2005 08:45:32 -0700 Subject: here is the CLOCKFACE script...coded in 3 MINUTES...17 LINES of CODE In-Reply-To: References: <3F8246E1-CF04-11D9-95AD-0030659A795C@derbrill.de> <6F26B8F2-4FD9-4935-8465-2C64CA371A46@runrev.com> <390F31A8-C9B9-460E-9145-2BC85DE3392F@writeme.com> <7D47C5B5-CDA6-49BB-AA53-D01BE4CC7787@runrev.com> Message-ID: <987E20DE-181A-4317-9642-24B6F992D0D1@runrev.com> I've put up a summary of the refinement of this code at: http://www.inspiredlogic.com/beautiful/clockface.html I had to make a modification to the below "final" version, both to use the split command and because I realized that sometimes 450 - (30 * T[1]) - trunc(T[2] / 2) won't fall into the range 0-359. If it doesn't the value returned by the angle of the graphic the next time won't match (because it is always in 0-359) and so the hour hand's position will be set every second, which we're trying to avoid. The posted version is now: on openCard setTime end openCard on setTime put word 1 of the long time into T --8:13:15 put T & char 2 to 5 of (the long seconds mod 1) into fld "Time" split T using ":" get (450 - (30 * T[1]) - trunc(T[2] / 2)) mod 360 if (the angle of grc "Hour") <> it then set the angle of grc "Hour" to it get (450 - (6 * T[2]) - trunc(T[3] / 10)) mod 360 if (the angle of grc "Minute") <> it then set the angle of grc "Minute" to it set the angle of grc "Second" to 360+90-(6 * item 3 of T) send "setTime" to me in 1-(the long seconds mod 1) seconds end setTime Let me know if you see an issue with that. gc On May 30, 2005, at 4:37 PM, Dennis Brown wrote: > That is a good point. I tested it out, and the useless "set angle" > results in about 70ms of wasted time every second (7% CPU). I am > surprised it is so high. Doing the test and skipping it is a > thousand times faster. I fixed up the script as my own exercise > for the student. You can see the time lag slightly when the > computer is busy with something else, like loading a web page. > > Note: the angle calculations had to be changed to match what the > angle returned for these graphics. The clock is in my user space > (see3d). It takes a licking, but keeps on ticking... > > on openCard > setTime > end openCard > > on setTime > set the itemDelimiter to ":" > put word 1 of the long time into T --8:13:15 > put T & char 2 to 5 of (the long seconds mod 1) into fld "Time" > get 360+90-(30 * item 1 of T) - trunc((item 2 of T) / 2) > if (the angle of grc "Hour") <> it then set the angle of grc > "Hour" to it > get 360+90-(6 * item 2 of T) - trunc((item 3 of T) / 10) > if (the angle of grc "Minute") <> it then set the angle of grc > "Minute" to it > set the angle of grc "Second" to 360+90-(6 * item 3 of T) > send "setTime" to me in 1-(the long seconds mod 1) seconds > end setTime > > > Dennis > > On May 30, 2005, at 2:21 PM, Geoff Canyon wrote: > > >> On May 30, 2005, at 10:04 AM, Dennis Brown wrote: >> >> >> >>> Nice! I learn something every minute on this list --four heads >>> are better than one. I do believe that the clock is down to its >>> essence now. Every line does something essential, except >>> displaying the "Time" field to check its accuracy. I put the >>> latest version in my user space also (see3d). >>> >>> >> >> re: down to its essence -- obviously for this demo it doesn't >> matter, but in practice, I would want to put in code to only >> change the minute and hour hands when they actually need it, >> rather than setting them to the same startAngle (except when they >> actually move) each second. I haven't timed this to see whether >> it's actually a concern. >> >> And multiple heads are definitely better than one. That's why I >> plan to grow additional heads as soon as possible. ;-) >> _______________________________________________ >> use-revolution mailing list >> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution >> >> > > _______________________________________________ > use-revolution mailing list > use-revolution at lists.runrev.com > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution > From ralf at dol.net Mon Jun 6 11:27:44 2005 From: ralf at dol.net (Ralph R. Forehand) Date: Mon, 6 Jun 2005 11:27:44 -0400 Subject: Rev. User Groups in the USA (RUGs/USA)? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: You wrote; >Glenn I'm in Humble (basically a suburb of Houston). I would definitely be interesting in participating in a RUG meeting! > >--gordon Gordon, Thank you for your response - YEA!! OUR QUERY IS STARTING TO PAY-OFF!! :-)) I assume it's OK to add you to our list of interested Rev. Users I'm compiling? I will keep you informed as we go along Thanks Again, More Later and TAKE CARE, Ralph ---------------- >On Jun 6, 2005, at 08:39, Glenn E. Fisher wrote: > >>Ralph, >>I live in the Houston, Texas area and would be interested in a say southwest region RUG. Any other people in this area? >>Thanks for doing this Ralph. >> >>Best regards, >>Glenn >> >> >>>All, >>> >>>The list of you interested Rev. Users Groups is growing. It looks very promising for the Mid-Atlantic/South Eastern US region ay this point. >>> >>>I expect to be in the Atlanta area (attending a Convention) July 20th-23nd. I would like to hear from anyone who might like to meet informally to discuss RUGs and/or any future Rev. Users gatherings. >>> >>>Also I'd like to hear from anyone else interested in Rev. User Groups and or Rev. Users gatherings. I can serve as a focal point for "RUGs/USA" information. >>> >>>Please feel free to contact me off-list at ralf at dol.net if you prefer, >>> >>>More Later and TAKE CARE, >>>Ralph >_______________________________________________ >use-revolution mailing list >use-revolution at lists.runrev.com >http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution From soapdog at mac.com Mon Jun 6 12:01:41 2005 From: soapdog at mac.com (Andre Garzia) Date: Mon, 6 Jun 2005 13:01:41 -0300 Subject: Database saved as custom property In-Reply-To: <20050606145932.7F97E9300E6@mail.runrev.com> References: <20050606145932.7F97E9300E6@mail.runrev.com> Message-ID: <8ab5d91526efa3c8c1a34e5268dfc4e7@mac.com> If I had 2GB of data to work and the world was mine to code, I'd go altSQLite, if I had the money I'd pump in lot's of RAM and create a ramdisk big enought to fit the db, the access would be fast. (I just happen to like ramdisks...) cheers andre On Jun 6, 2005, at 12:42 PM, MisterX wrote: > Guys, is this going somewhere? > > Custom props, card objects, stacks, even sql has limits. > > Any 2GBs of anything can be split into smaller components! > > Smaller components are de facto faster to access - i'll let > you do the algebra (or diff equ's if you prefer)... > > Put all your eggs in one basket and you know what happens > eventually... No revolutionary ideas i can think of! > > To manage 10000 troops is the same as managing a few, > It's a question of order and organization. > > cheers > Xavier > >> -----Original Message----- >> From: use-revolution-bounces at lists.runrev.com >> [mailto:use-revolution-bounces at lists.runrev.com] On Behalf Of >> Dennis Brown >> Sent: Monday, June 06, 2005 17:35 >> To: How to use Revolution >> Subject: Re: Database saved as custom property >> >> John, >> >> I believe we are still limited to about 2GB of total stack >> size at present according to recent posts. >> >> Dennis >> >> On Jun 6, 2005, at 10:56 AM, Klaus Major wrote: >> >>> Hi John, >>> >>> >>>> on 6/6/05 1:11 pm, Signe Marie Sanne wrote : >>>> >>>> Hello, >>>> Since someone a week ago said he had not ventured into custom >>>> properties, I have uploaded a very simple stack which >> shows how you >>>> make a small archive stack and save it as a custom >> property, all with >>>> just one card. On RevOnLine you will find it under my user name >>>> "sms", or under Categories >>>> -->Programming. Its name is CustPropDatabase. >>>> >>>> Marvellous! Now it is not so frightening... I need to think hard >>>> about this solution - are there any serious size limitations? >>>> >>> >>> Well, nothing to worry about, i think ;-) >>> >>> You can have upt ot 4 GB of custom properties per object! >>> Each of them can hold up to 4 GB of characters... >>> >>> Only drawback: A stack can only be up to 4 GB in size ;-) >>> >>> >>>> If it could replace 1000 >>>> cards, some containing c. 100k text, it would be FAST... >>>> >>> >>> Regards >>> >>> Klaus Major >>> klaus at major-k.de >>> http://www.major-k.de >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> use-revolution mailing list >>> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com >>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> use-revolution mailing list >> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution >> > > _______________________________________________ > use-revolution mailing list > use-revolution at lists.runrev.com > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution > > -- Andre Alves Garzia ? 2004 ? BRAZIL http://studio.soapdog.org From mwieder at ahsoftware.net Mon Jun 6 12:09:12 2005 From: mwieder at ahsoftware.net (Mark Wieder) Date: Mon, 6 Jun 2005 09:09:12 -0700 Subject: dump newbie image questiosn In-Reply-To: <42A43586.3010409@sover.net> References: <42A36FBC.7020303@sover.net> <42A39403.1010109@hyperactivesw.com> <42A3A7B2.4000207@sover.net> <42A3BC44.7050604@hyperactivesw.com> <18053346337.20050605234527@ahsoftware.net> <42A43586.3010409@sover.net> Message-ID: <961549147.20050606090912@ahsoftware.net> Jon- Monday, June 6, 2005, 4:37:42 AM, you wrote: J> I have no interest in writing DLLs for every platform. The whole reason J> I am trying to learn Rev is to avoid this! I figured as much... J> Delphi can create DLLs. If it worked on the Mac, I wouldn't be here at J> all. Delphi (Kylix) already runs on Linux... Right, but the hard part is creating the *right* DLLs. You have to set your linker preferences to allow mixed-case exports, support C parameter passing (calling function cleans up the stack), and prevent the compiler from adding an underline prefix to exports. Can Delphi come up with this combination? J> that allowed one to force small parts of the code to be optimized. Such J> a facility in Rev would be very powerful. Not trivial, and perhaps not J> even possible, but powerful. ...but... that's the whole point of external libraries in rev... -- -Mark Wieder mwieder at ahsoftware.net From got at mindspring.com Mon Jun 6 12:24:39 2005 From: got at mindspring.com (Gordon Tillman) Date: Mon, 6 Jun 2005 11:24:39 -0500 Subject: Rev. User Groups in the USA (RUGs/USA)? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Howdy Ralph, On Jun 6, 2005, at 10:27, Ralph R. Forehand wrote: > > Thank you for your response - YEA!! OUR QUERY IS STARTING TO PAY- > OFF!! :-)) > > I assume it's OK to add you to our list of interested Rev. Users > I'm compiling? I will keep you informed as we go along That's perfectly fine. If it is helpful at all I have several sites that I lease space on for various domains. I would be happy to setup one for our use and install, say, a wiki-based site that we could all update in some kind of collaborative fashion. --gordy From Buddyb3ar22 at aol.com Mon Jun 6 12:26:35 2005 From: Buddyb3ar22 at aol.com (Buddyb3ar22 at aol.com) Date: Mon, 6 Jun 2005 12:26:35 EDT Subject: No clue what to call this Message-ID: <1a3.351ecc2b.2fd5d33b@aol.com> You know like when you open dreamcard, the RevOnline Viewer opens I have a question about making a script something like it... On the left side with the Channel option bar thing, when you click on User spaces (for example), it changes the main window, how exactly would you make a script that could do what the viewer does? x.x; From soapdog at mac.com Mon Jun 6 12:31:12 2005 From: soapdog at mac.com (Andre Garzia) Date: Mon, 6 Jun 2005 13:31:12 -0300 Subject: No clue what to call this In-Reply-To: <1a3.351ecc2b.2fd5d33b@aol.com> References: <1a3.351ecc2b.2fd5d33b@aol.com> Message-ID: <82ce7447ffc64a929ee6af658105c426@mac.com> On Jun 6, 2005, at 1:26 PM, Buddyb3ar22 at aol.com wrote: > You know like when you open dreamcard, the RevOnline Viewer opens > > I have a question about making a script something like it... > On the left side with the Channel option bar thing, when you click on > User > spaces (for example), it changes the main window, how exactly would > you make a > script that could do what the viewer does? x.x; > _______________________________________________ > use-revolution mailing list > use-revolution at lists.runrev.com > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution > Buddy, first of all, try making yourself confortable with the Rev enviromnent and basics by doing all the tutorials. Without the grasp of transcript and controls, that task will be a little awkward, but knowing your steps, you'll be able to mimic that behaviour in minutes. The minimalist steps are: (1) Create your stack and put your controls, one list box for the user spaces, a big field for the main window. (2) Script the user spaces list box to respond to mouseUp checking the current selected user and act accordinly. Or use menuPick and a button instead of a field. this things make more sense if you do the tutorials. Also Dan Shaffers book is a wonderfull aid. Cheers andre > -- Andre Alves Garzia ? 2004 ? BRAZIL http://studio.soapdog.org From soapdog at mac.com Mon Jun 6 12:33:41 2005 From: soapdog at mac.com (Andre Garzia) Date: Mon, 6 Jun 2005 13:33:41 -0300 Subject: Rev. User Groups in the USA (RUGs/USA)? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <065592850e4b60b03dc6a287574db556@mac.com> On Jun 6, 2005, at 1:24 PM, Gordon Tillman wrote: > That's perfectly fine. If it is helpful at all I have several sites > that I lease space on for various domains. I would be happy to setup > one for our use and install, say, a wiki-based site that we could all > update in some kind of collaborative fashion. > > --gordy > Gordon, I own the wecode.org domain and pay for a nice webhost there, I am already hosting serendipty library and the RevChat Contest, I'd be more than happy to host RUGs in there, the pros are: a cool domain, rev cgi already installed. cheers andre PS: ... one day, Rug-Br (brazilian user group) > -- Andre Alves Garzia ? 2004 ? BRAZIL http://studio.soapdog.org From see3d at writeme.com Mon Jun 6 12:38:47 2005 From: see3d at writeme.com (Dennis Brown) Date: Mon, 06 Jun 2005 12:38:47 -0400 Subject: here is the CLOCKFACE script...coded in 3 MINUTES...17 LINES of CODE In-Reply-To: <987E20DE-181A-4317-9642-24B6F992D0D1@runrev.com> References: <3F8246E1-CF04-11D9-95AD-0030659A795C@derbrill.de> <6F26B8F2-4FD9-4935-8465-2C64CA371A46@runrev.com> <390F31A8-C9B9-460E-9145-2BC85DE3392F@writeme.com> <7D47C5B5-CDA6-49BB-AA53-D01BE4CC7787@runrev.com> <987E20DE-181A-4317-9642-24B6F992D0D1@runrev.com> Message-ID: <1D4ECAC5-A9D5-42C8-9A17-D824D4F002BA@writeme.com> Geoff, Good catch. As was pointed out before, trunc(T[2] / 2) can be simplified to (T[2] div 2) Dennis On Jun 6, 2005, at 11:45 AM, Geoff Canyon wrote: > I've put up a summary of the refinement of this code at: > > http://www.inspiredlogic.com/beautiful/clockface.html > > I had to make a modification to the below "final" version, both to > use the split command and because I realized that sometimes > > 450 - (30 * T[1]) - trunc(T[2] / 2) > > won't fall into the range 0-359. If it doesn't the value returned > by the angle of the graphic the next time won't match (because it > is always in 0-359) and so the hour hand's position will be set > every second, which we're trying to avoid. > > The posted version is now: > > on openCard > setTime > end openCard > > on setTime > put word 1 of the long time into T --8:13:15 > put T & char 2 to 5 of (the long seconds mod 1) into fld "Time" > split T using ":" > get (450 - (30 * T[1]) - trunc(T[2] / 2)) mod 360 > if (the angle of grc "Hour") <> it then set the angle of grc > "Hour" to it > get (450 - (6 * T[2]) - trunc(T[3] / 10)) mod 360 > if (the angle of grc "Minute") <> it then set the angle of grc > "Minute" to it > set the angle of grc "Second" to 360+90-(6 * item 3 of T) > send "setTime" to me in 1-(the long seconds mod 1) seconds > end setTime > > Let me know if you see an issue with that. > > gc > > > On May 30, 2005, at 4:37 PM, Dennis Brown wrote: > > >> That is a good point. I tested it out, and the useless "set >> angle" results in about 70ms of wasted time every second (7% >> CPU). I am surprised it is so high. Doing the test and skipping >> it is a thousand times faster. I fixed up the script as my own >> exercise for the student. You can see the time lag slightly when >> the computer is busy with something else, like loading a web page. >> >> Note: the angle calculations had to be changed to match what the >> angle returned for these graphics. The clock is in my user space >> (see3d). It takes a licking, but keeps on ticking... >> >> on openCard >> setTime >> end openCard >> >> on setTime >> set the itemDelimiter to ":" >> put word 1 of the long time into T --8:13:15 >> put T & char 2 to 5 of (the long seconds mod 1) into fld "Time" >> get 360+90-(30 * item 1 of T) - trunc((item 2 of T) / 2) >> if (the angle of grc "Hour") <> it then set the angle of grc >> "Hour" to it >> get 360+90-(6 * item 2 of T) - trunc((item 3 of T) / 10) >> if (the angle of grc "Minute") <> it then set the angle of grc >> "Minute" to it >> set the angle of grc "Second" to 360+90-(6 * item 3 of T) >> send "setTime" to me in 1-(the long seconds mod 1) seconds >> end setTime >> >> >> Dennis >> >> On May 30, 2005, at 2:21 PM, Geoff Canyon wrote: >> >> >> >>> On May 30, 2005, at 10:04 AM, Dennis Brown wrote: >>> >>> >>> >>> >>>> Nice! I learn something every minute on this list --four heads >>>> are better than one. I do believe that the clock is down to its >>>> essence now. Every line does something essential, except >>>> displaying the "Time" field to check its accuracy. I put the >>>> latest version in my user space also (see3d). >>>> >>>> >>>> >>> >>> re: down to its essence -- obviously for this demo it doesn't >>> matter, but in practice, I would want to put in code to only >>> change the minute and hour hands when they actually need it, >>> rather than setting them to the same startAngle (except when they >>> actually move) each second. I haven't timed this to see whether >>> it's actually a concern. >>> >>> And multiple heads are definitely better than one. That's why I >>> plan to grow additional heads as soon as possible. ;-) >>> _______________________________________________ >>> use-revolution mailing list >>> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com >>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution >>> >>> >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> use-revolution mailing list >> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution >> >> > > _______________________________________________ > use-revolution mailing list > use-revolution at lists.runrev.com > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution > From jacque at hyperactivesw.com Mon Jun 6 12:39:30 2005 From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay) Date: Mon, 06 Jun 2005 11:39:30 -0500 Subject: dump newbie image questiosn In-Reply-To: <003e01c56a5e$51085da0$0b01a8c0@niconiko04zbtb> References: <42A36FBC.7020303@sover.net> <42A39403.1010109@hyperactivesw.com><42A3A7B2.4000207@sover.net> <42A3BC44.7050604@hyperactivesw.com> <003e01c56a5e$51085da0$0b01a8c0@niconiko04zbtb> Message-ID: <42A47C42.5080403@hyperactivesw.com> On 6/6/05 1:09 AM, Nicolas Cueto wrote: > Hello. > > Sorry to barge in what seems like a private conversation > between Jon and Jacqueline about lockLoc and image > resizing but it's reminding me of a similar "problem" I had > with one of my image-based stacks a long time back. If it is on the list, it isn't a private conversation. :) You are welcome to join. > > Once upon a time, while my young EFL learners and I were > happily studying the English names of shapes using a > concentration game stack, I was very surprised to hear > the word "rectangle" emitting from the PC speakers when > the image on-screen was very much a "square". > > Looking for the source of this mistake later on, I discovered > that the culprit was the lockLoc setting of each image object, > Though the original image had indeed been a "rectangle", > the lockLoc of the image object forced the "rectangle" to fill > in the entire image object -- or, as Jon wrote, it scaled in both > directions. > > My solution then was to create a new rectangle image > file, with lots of white space at the top and bottom of > the rectangle. > > But something Jacqueline wrote to Jon is making > me think that maybe there's another (easier!) way, > i.e.: > > >>Well, generally we calculate the dimensions before we set the image >>size. ;) Then it works okay. > > > "Calculate the dimensions"? Can someone explain how to do this > with RunRev? (Or is Jacqueline just joking? ;) ) No, I wasn't joking. I'm not even sure I understand the problem because I've never seen it. I always scale images by calculating the desired dimensions and setting the image to that size. For example, if I want an image to display at 1/3 its natural size, I do this: set the width of img 1 to round((the formattedwidth of img 1) * .3) set the height of img 1 to round((the formattedheight of img 1) * .3) This works whether the lockloc of the image is true or false. However, I leave it set to true because otherwise it will reset back to normal size if I leave the card. I see no distortion when I do this. Technically, you don't even need to use the "round" function because the engine will adjust to the nearest pixel automatically. > > Cause I have to agree with Jon that, at least sometimes, > the image object's lockLoc property does cause an ugly > distortion of an original image file's size. > > So, if there's a way around this "ugliness" ... > > Thanks. > > Cheers, > Nicolas Cueto > niconiko language school > (J) > > _______________________________________________ > use-revolution mailing list > use-revolution at lists.runrev.com > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution > > > -- Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com From ridge11103 at btinternet.com Mon Jun 6 12:42:05 2005 From: ridge11103 at btinternet.com (John Ridge) Date: Mon, 06 Jun 2005 17:42:05 +0100 Subject: dump newbie image questiosn In-Reply-To: <42A44DA2.1010101@tweedly.net> Message-ID: on 6/6/05 2:20 pm, Alex Tweedly wrote : snip You can download a sample "bad" photo from www.tweedly.net/IMGP0635.JPG - but beware it's 1.5Mb (btw - it shows a crowd of us from the EuroRevCon 2004 in beautiful Malta !!) This photo looks fine in Windows viewer, and in Photoshop, and in ..... and unscaled in Rev, but not when scaled. I have only seen this problem on large photos - my camera produces 3000x2000 pixels - though I haven't yet experimented much; until today I had assumed *I* was doing something wrong :-) -- Alex Tweedly http://www.tweedly.net Alex, do you want the good news or the bad news? Well, actually, they're the same - your mega photo works just fine in all three modes on my machine (G4 Mac OS9). It also opens in Apple's PictureViewer. Great camera! The resolution at full size is quite something - a steady hand, too, of course... So what the x-platform is going on? And are you going to label the participants? -- From 3mcgrath at adelphia.net Mon Jun 6 12:44:00 2005 From: 3mcgrath at adelphia.net (Thomas McGrath III) Date: Mon, 6 Jun 2005 12:44:00 -0400 Subject: Fwd: new things to worry about... Message-ID: <77685bef6f05c585aa0eae6e1032ca6f@adelphia.net> Begin forwarded message: > Some announcements from Macromedia: > > - Flash Platform announcement > unveiling_flashplatform.html>http://www.macromedia.com/macromedia/ > proom/pr/2005/unveiling_flashplatform.html > > - Flash Platform microsite/info center > http://www.macromedia.com/go/ > platform > > - Macromedia Joins the Eclipse Foundation > eclipse_flashplatform.html>http://www.macromedia.com/macromedia/proom/ > pr/2005/eclipse_flashplatform.html > > - Mobile ecosystem & the Flash Platform > mobileecosystem_flashplatform.html>http://www.macromedia.com/ > macromedia/proom/pr/2005/mobileecosystem_flashplatform.html > > - Broadband Telecom & the Flash Platform > communications_flashplatform.html>http://www.macromedia.com/ > macromedia/proom/pr/2005/communications_flashplatform.html > From jperryl at ecs.fullerton.edu Mon Jun 6 12:48:11 2005 From: jperryl at ecs.fullerton.edu (Judy Perry) Date: Mon, 6 Jun 2005 09:48:11 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Dreamcard Roadster in the future??? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Marty, Right. Sometimes the ideology belongs to others groups, like the IT managers ;-) Of course, sometimes this is justified. A year or so ago, somebody at our campus decided to plug his laptop into the network whilst in the library and somehow managed to bring down the entire campus network. But he did it without installing new software @;-) Judy On Mon, 6 Jun 2005, Marty Billingsley wrote: > Judy Perry writes: > > > For many teachers, especially in public schools, installing > standalone apps is an impossibility. The only way to allow many > of these teachers access to new "software" is through the web. > And the appropriate plugin would already have to be installed -- > the teachers won't have permissions to install *anything*. > Hence my suggestion that RR try to piggyback off the shockwave > plugin. (Granted, I have no idea whether that's technologically > feasible or not.) From Bill at BlueWaterMaritime.com Mon Jun 6 12:49:06 2005 From: Bill at BlueWaterMaritime.com (Bill Humphrey) Date: Mon, 06 Jun 2005 12:49:06 -0400 Subject: Database Query Builder -- errors In-Reply-To: References: <42A44F89.9000408@BlueWaterMaritime.com> Message-ID: <42A47E82.2000307@BlueWaterMaritime.com> Thank you, thank you. I didn't even think to try alias for the name and I was just checking out how I can make view's in SQLite and then swap those in and out easily. I'll try it now and see. Trevor DeVore wrote: > On Jun 6, 2005, at 6:28 AM, Bill Humphrey wrote: > >> In case anyone else wants to use this great thing extensively then >> when designing your databases always use unique names for every >> column even when in different tables because if you refer to a >> column as tablename1.shipID and another one as tablename2.shipID >> even though SQL is happy with this the database query builder update >> feature will choke. > > > You could probably get around this by doing: > > SELECT tablename1.shipID AS ShipID1, tablename2.shipID AS ShipID2... > > From jacque at hyperactivesw.com Mon Jun 6 12:50:32 2005 From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay) Date: Mon, 06 Jun 2005 11:50:32 -0500 Subject: Scripting conference - Message Hierarchy Message-ID: <42A47ED8.5020608@hyperactivesw.com> The Message Hierarchy scripting conference stack is now online and available for download at: This conference stack was written and will be presented by Richard Gaskin, known Revolution guru and frequent contributor to both our mailing list and our community. He has done a wonderful job with this topic and I am sure you will be equally impressed at his presentation this Saturday. More details about the conference times and dates are available at the above URL. We look forward to seeing you all there! -- Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com From SimPLsol at aol.com Mon Jun 6 12:51:08 2005 From: SimPLsol at aol.com (SimPLsol at aol.com) Date: Mon, 6 Jun 2005 12:51:08 EDT Subject: ClickLine woes Message-ID: Jeanne et al., One area where I've found the transition from HC to Rev to be difficult is the different ways they handle the clickLine. I have two fields. The one on the left is a label field, shared text which appears on all cards. The one on the right contains data that changes from card to card. The one on the right is no problem. With HyperCard, I could trap for Option clicks in the left field, put up an Ask dialog that asked the user if they wanted to edit line (word two of the clickLine) of the field clicked, and then do some things based on their response. With Rev, the clickLine returns the number of the line clicked only if you click on a line with text. For example: if there are two lines of text in the field and 1. you click on line one, word 2 of the clickLine is 1 2. you click on line two, word 2 of the clickLine is 2 3. you click line three (or any higher number), word 2 of the clickLine is 0. 4. If there is no text in the field, word 2 of the clickLine is 0 - no matter where you click. Different situation: I have third field, a scrolling field that goes to the left of the label field described above. This is a locked field used for putting checkmarks in front of items that have been completed. I get the same clickLine problem - if the user first clicks on line five the checkmark will go into line 1, if this field is empty. But if a lower line (say, line 9) contains text, then the checkmark will go into line 5 (or any other line clicked if it is lower than 9). I suppose I could put a space (or X) on line 25,000 of each of these fields but the user might get confused to see really tiny proportional scrollbars on an empty field. Is there a better way? Jeanne, could we document this clickLine behavior? I would have found it very helpful just to know what was happening. Paul Looney From jacque at hyperactivesw.com Mon Jun 6 12:56:55 2005 From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay) Date: Mon, 06 Jun 2005 11:56:55 -0500 Subject: dump newbie image questiosn In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <42A48057.4030004@hyperactivesw.com> On 6/6/05 11:42 AM, John Ridge wrote: > on 6/6/05 2:20 pm, Alex Tweedly wrote : > snip > You can download a sample "bad" photo from www.tweedly.net/IMGP0635.JPG > - but beware it's 1.5Mb > (btw - it shows a crowd of us from the EuroRevCon 2004 in beautiful > Malta !!) > > This photo looks fine in Windows viewer, and in Photoshop, and in ..... > and unscaled in Rev, but not when scaled. > > I have only seen this problem on large photos - my camera produces > 3000x2000 pixels - though I haven't yet experimented much; until today I > had assumed *I* was doing something wrong :-) > I'm not sure what you guys are doing, but it looks fine on my Mac: set the height of last img to the formattedheight of last img * .2 set the width of last img to the formattedwidth of last img * .2 Appears perfectly scaled with no distortion. Is this a Windows problem, maybe? -- Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com From Bill at BlueWaterMaritime.com Mon Jun 6 12:59:01 2005 From: Bill at BlueWaterMaritime.com (Bill Humphrey) Date: Mon, 06 Jun 2005 12:59:01 -0400 Subject: Database Query Builder -- errors and aliases In-Reply-To: References: <42A44F89.9000408@BlueWaterMaritime.com> Message-ID: <42A480D5.5010903@BlueWaterMaritime.com> Boy did that crash RunRev fast! I don't even have to worry about changing anything back to the way it was ;) Trevor DeVore wrote: > On Jun 6, 2005, at 6:28 AM, Bill Humphrey wrote: > >> In case anyone else wants to use this great thing extensively then >> when designing your databases always use unique names for every >> column even when in different tables because if you refer to a >> column as tablename1.shipID and another one as tablename2.shipID >> even though SQL is happy with this the database query builder update >> feature will choke. > > > You could probably get around this by doing: > > SELECT tablename1.shipID AS ShipID1, tablename2.shipID AS ShipID2... > > From jcwall at jaguar1.usouthal.edu Mon Jun 6 12:59:23 2005 From: jcwall at jaguar1.usouthal.edu (jcwall at jaguar1.usouthal.edu) Date: Mon, 06 Jun 2005 11:59:23 -0500 Subject: Rev. User Groups in the USA (RUGs/USA)? Message-ID: Ralph: Would you please add me to that group as well? Jim Wall ------------------------------------- James C. Wall, PhD Professor Department of Physical Therapy University of South Alabama 1504 Springhill Avenue, Room 1214 Mobile AL 36604 (251) 434 3575 ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ralph R. Forehand" Date: Monday, June 6, 2005 10:16 am Subject: Re: Rev. User Groups in the USA (RUGs/USA)? > Glenn; > > You wrote; > >I live in the Houston, Texas area and would be interested in a say > southwest region RUG. Any other people in this area? > > Thank You Very Much for your interest and response. I've added you > into our list of interested Rev. Users I'm compiling and will keep > you informed as we go along. > > >Thanks for doing this Ralph. > > You are welcomed and your compliment is appreciated. > > Thanks Again, More Later and TAKE CARE, > Ralph > > > _______________________________________________ > use-revolution mailing list > use-revolution at lists.runrev.com > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution > From see3d at writeme.com Mon Jun 6 13:01:53 2005 From: see3d at writeme.com (Dennis Brown) Date: Mon, 06 Jun 2005 13:01:53 -0400 Subject: Transitive? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Transitive is real. I have been watching them for several years waiting for the realization of a commercial application of it. It is real cool. Checkout their web site. This would make a lot of sense for Apple. They could switch to different processors at the low, mid, and high ends without worrying about the low level instruction set. There is virtually no speed penalty for this for basic applications. However, if the hardware has special features that need to be coded directly to enable very special OS level functions, they would be hard to translate directly. But this would be a tiny part of the low level OS stuff. For scientific applications in multiprocessor configurations --I am not sure. But for the normal stuff we are interested in, this would allow Apple to treat the processor as just another component --like a different graphics board. Dennis On Jun 6, 2005, at 10:22 AM, John Ridge wrote: > BBC News reports "Technology news site The Register also reports > that Apple > has licensed technology from a company called Transitive which makes > software that makes it easier to port programs on to different chip > architectures" > > If the current rumours are correct, is Revolution stymied? If, by > magic, > apps developed on any platform can be run without change on any > other, what > need is there for cross-platform tools like Rev? > > Still a fascinating IDE, but it's lost a major selling point... Is > Transitive real? > -- > > > _______________________________________________ > use-revolution mailing list > use-revolution at lists.runrev.com > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution > From mwieder at ahsoftware.net Mon Jun 6 13:04:22 2005 From: mwieder at ahsoftware.net (Mark Wieder) Date: Mon, 6 Jun 2005 10:04:22 -0700 Subject: dump newbie image questiosn In-Reply-To: <42A44DA2.1010101@tweedly.net> References: <42A44DA2.1010101@tweedly.net> Message-ID: <544858896.20050606100422@ahsoftware.net> Alex- Monday, June 6, 2005, 6:20:34 AM, you wrote: AT> (btw - it shows a crowd of us from the EuroRevCon 2004 in beautiful AT> Malta !!) I give up - what's O.P.M.??? Others Programming Metacard? -- -Mark Wieder mwieder at ahsoftware.net From ambassador at fourthworld.com Mon Jun 6 13:10:00 2005 From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin) Date: Mon, 06 Jun 2005 10:10:00 -0700 Subject: Transitive? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <42A48368.5050309@fourthworld.com> On Jun 6, 2005, at 10:22 AM, John Ridge wrote: > > BBC News reports "Technology news site The Register also reports > that Apple has licensed technology from a company called > Transitive which makes software that makes it easier to port > programs on to different chip architectures" > > If the current rumours are correct, is Revolution stymied? If, > by magic, apps developed on any platform can be run without > change on any other, what need is there for cross-platform > tools like Rev? > > Still a fascinating IDE, but it's lost a major selling point..... Hardly. This hurts Microsoft and their VirtualPC more than anyone else. For those of us who design multi-platform applications this technology would seem to have little if any impact: emulating a chip architecture is one thing, emulating an OS quite another. And even if it could emulate the OS (oh the copyright issues there) do Mac users really want Win-designed apps, or Win users want Mac-designed apps? There's a lot more to multi-platform design and development than microchip instruction sets..... -- Richard Gaskin Fourth World Media Corporation __________________________________________________ Rev tools and more: http://www.fourthworld.com/rev From see3d at writeme.com Mon Jun 6 13:19:17 2005 From: see3d at writeme.com (Dennis Brown) Date: Mon, 06 Jun 2005 13:19:17 -0400 Subject: Transitive? In-Reply-To: <42A48368.5050309@fourthworld.com> References: <42A48368.5050309@fourthworld.com> Message-ID: Richard, That is what they do --take an app running on one OS and one chip and make it run on another OS and another chip. No trivial task, but they can do it. The face of software development may be about to open up to all platforms, and the face of hardware development opening up to be released from legacy restrictions. And as usual Apple will lead the way for the whole industry. Dennis On Jun 6, 2005, at 1:10 PM, Richard Gaskin wrote: > On Jun 6, 2005, at 10:22 AM, John Ridge wrote: > > > > BBC News reports "Technology news site The Register also reports > > that Apple has licensed technology from a company called > > Transitive which makes software that makes it easier to port > > programs on to different chip architectures" > > > > If the current rumours are correct, is Revolution stymied? If, > > by magic, apps developed on any platform can be run without > > change on any other, what need is there for cross-platform > > tools like Rev? > > > > Still a fascinating IDE, but it's lost a major selling point..... > > Hardly. This hurts Microsoft and their VirtualPC more than anyone > else. > > For those of us who design multi-platform applications this > technology would seem to have little if any impact: emulating a > chip architecture is one thing, emulating an OS quite another. > > And even if it could emulate the OS (oh the copyright issues there) > do Mac users really want Win-designed apps, or Win users want Mac- > designed apps? > > There's a lot more to multi-platform design and development than > microchip instruction sets..... > > -- > Richard Gaskin > Fourth World Media Corporation > __________________________________________________ > Rev tools and more: http://www.fourthworld.com/rev > > _______________________________________________ > use-revolution mailing list > use-revolution at lists.runrev.com > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution > From ambassador at fourthworld.com Mon Jun 6 13:29:25 2005 From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin) Date: Mon, 06 Jun 2005 10:29:25 -0700 Subject: Transitive? In-Reply-To: References: <42A48368.5050309@fourthworld.com> Message-ID: <42A487F5.1000402@fourthworld.com> Dennis Brown wrote: > Richard, > > That is what they do --take an app running on one OS and one chip and > make it run on another OS and another chip. No trivial task, but they > can do it. The face of software development may be about to open up to > all platforms, and the face of hardware development opening up to be > released from legacy restrictions. And as usual Apple will lead the > way for the whole industry. Sometimes the simplest things are the more complex: How does it handle menus across platforms? Or native control appearances? What does one do with Registry calls on OS X, or AppleScript on Windows? Or file path delimiters? Or line-ending delimiters? Or..... Apple's excited about it because of the role it can play in an OS migration to another chip architecture. But it's not designed to do what Rev does.... -- Richard Gaskin Fourth World Media Corporation __________________________________________________ Rev tools and more: http://www.fourthworld.com/rev From b.xavier at internet.lu Mon Jun 6 13:35:59 2005 From: b.xavier at internet.lu (MisterX) Date: Mon, 6 Jun 2005 19:35:59 +0200 Subject: new things to worry about... In-Reply-To: <77685bef6f05c585aa0eae6e1032ca6f@adelphia.net> Message-ID: <20050606165254.9793F93006B@mail.runrev.com> TAOO, i hope to demonstrate soon, is much more worrysome... Multi-OS no matter what "your" style of data, gui behavior, i/o or themastic preference your heart desires... Like wiki, i hope people will start jumping in but without microsft's income or arms, it feels quite helpless... but i know it's an exponential question of getting it all rolling... Worry about that! Hint: Think Economics+design+oop+HC/MC/SC/RR+anything else. I share that with you guys because the winning ingredients in any race are not in the car or engine or IDE or OS, it's in the non-written rules of the game and how you overscript* the rest. (overcome->over-ride->overwrite-*) cheers from cyberspace[NAN-1] Xavier http://monsieurx.com - any object is worth a myriad of objects From jperryl at ecs.fullerton.edu Mon Jun 6 13:35:41 2005 From: jperryl at ecs.fullerton.edu (Judy Perry) Date: Mon, 6 Jun 2005 10:35:41 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Uh-oh.... Anybody following WWDC? In-Reply-To: <42A487F5.1000402@fourthworld.com> Message-ID: >From macnn.com's coverage: Mac OS X has been leading secret double life. Every Mac project build for Intel and PowerPC and Intel. Every release of Mac OS X has been built for both Intel and PowerPC-based Macs. For the last 5 years. Mac OS X is cross-platform by design. Apple's demo is on an Intel-based system. Jobs shows all Mac OS X Tiger features are already compatible with Intel-based processors. [10:32 am] Judy From jperryl at ecs.fullerton.edu Mon Jun 6 13:36:47 2005 From: jperryl at ecs.fullerton.edu (Judy Perry) Date: Mon, 6 Jun 2005 10:36:47 -0700 (PDT) Subject: And, it's official? In-Reply-To: <42A487F5.1000402@fourthworld.com> Message-ID: Two major transitions for Mac: 68K to PowerPC. Next Mac OS 9 to Mac OS X. Now time for third transition. Transition to Intel-based Macs. Developers Now. Next year for users. "Because we want to make the best computers for our customers." No G5 PowerBook yet. Future products can't be build on IBM of PowerPC. Intel has performance and better performance per watt. Intel delivers much better performance per watt. Starting next year the first Macs with Intel processors. Shipping by next WWDC. Mostly complete by 2007 WWDC. Complete by the end of 2007. Two-year transition. [10:28 am] From soapdog at mac.com Mon Jun 6 13:39:43 2005 From: soapdog at mac.com (Andre Garzia) Date: Mon, 6 Jun 2005 14:39:43 -0300 Subject: Uh-oh.... Anybody following WWDC? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Jun 6, 2005, at 2:35 PM, Judy Perry wrote: >> From macnn.com's coverage: > > Mac OS X has been leading secret double life. Every Mac project build > for > Intel and PowerPC and Intel. Every release of Mac OS X has been built > for > both Intel and PowerPC-based Macs. For the last 5 years. Mac OS X is > cross-platform by design. Apple's demo is on an Intel-based system. > Jobs > shows all Mac OS X Tiger features are already compatible with > Intel-based > processors. [10:32 am] > > Judy I am... . OMFG!!!!!!!!!!!! (I am sick) > > _______________________________________________ > use-revolution mailing list > use-revolution at lists.runrev.com > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution > > -- Andre Alves Garzia ? 2004 ? BRAZIL http://studio.soapdog.org From dcragg at lacscentre.co.uk Mon Jun 6 13:40:25 2005 From: dcragg at lacscentre.co.uk (Dave Cragg) Date: Mon, 6 Jun 2005 18:40:25 +0100 Subject: HTTPS and Root.pem... In-Reply-To: <71da43d2762c271a711eadfbb5bab9b8@mac.com> References: <120f337a5b5899285cefc5fcb4b1afc4@swcp.com> <1118005116.507.0.camel@rachmaninov> <9707a0c8743610dca0f9d280d1b0b23a@mac.com> <27a143718d0707b6a40900b20eb7c31f@swcp.com> <8791CB80-B9AE-4F58-B4F0-3DA79AD49A7B@lacscentre.co.uk> <71da43d2762c271a711eadfbb5bab9b8@mac.com> Message-ID: On 6 Jun 2005, at 16:05, Andre Garzia wrote: > > On Jun 6, 2005, at 3:46 AM, Dave Cragg wrote: > > >> I just woke up. >> >> >> Try the following: >> >> libUrlSetSSLVerification false >> >> Cheers >> Dave >> >> > > Dave, > > THANK YOU FOR EVER!!!!! > You owe me a beer, or a bottle of this stuff: http://www.kinnie.com/ :) > > Most people hate undocumented functions, Not altogether undocumented. You can get it here: http://support.runrev.com/resources/liburlrealdocs.html Cheers Dave From jperryl at ecs.fullerton.edu Mon Jun 6 13:44:10 2005 From: jperryl at ecs.fullerton.edu (Judy Perry) Date: Mon, 6 Jun 2005 10:44:10 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Uh-oh.... Anybody following WWDC? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Yeah. Time to go puke in 6 colours. ;-/ Judy On Mon, 6 Jun 2005, Andre Garzia wrote: > > I am... . OMFG!!!!!!!!!!!! (I am sick) From alex at tweedly.net Mon Jun 6 13:47:40 2005 From: alex at tweedly.net (Alex Tweedly) Date: Mon, 06 Jun 2005 18:47:40 +0100 Subject: dump newbie image questiosn In-Reply-To: <544858896.20050606100422@ahsoftware.net> References: <42A44DA2.1010101@tweedly.net> <544858896.20050606100422@ahsoftware.net> Message-ID: <42A48C3C.8020805@tweedly.net> Mark Wieder wrote: >Alex- > >Monday, June 6, 2005, 6:20:34 AM, you wrote: > >AT> (btw - it shows a crowd of us from the EuroRevCon 2004 in beautiful >AT> Malta !!) > >I give up - what's O.P.M.??? > >Others Programming Metacard? > > I think it may be Office of the Prime Minister but Sims can give the definitive answer. I'm not going to give the list of names because I've forgotten one, and it's too embarrassing to admit which :-( Sims ?? -- Alex Tweedly http://www.tweedly.net -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.323 / Virus Database: 267.6.2 - Release Date: 04/06/2005 From ambassador at fourthworld.com Mon Jun 6 13:49:13 2005 From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin) Date: Mon, 06 Jun 2005 10:49:13 -0700 Subject: Uh-oh.... Anybody following WWDC? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <42A48C99.3090906@fourthworld.com> Judy Perry wrote: > Yeah. Time to go puke in 6 colours. > > ;-/ > > Judy > > On Mon, 6 Jun 2005, Andre Garzia wrote: > >>I am... . OMFG!!!!!!!!!!!! (I am sick) Cheaper faster Macs got you down? As Rev users, we get to coast on the sweat RunRev has to put into this. So while most developers will be hurting (I suspect many will leave) we get to coast on the coattails of the good folks at Edinburgh for the low cost of a Rev upgrade. :) -- Richard Gaskin Fourth World Media Corporation __________________________________________________ Rev tools and more: http://www.fourthworld.com/rev From soapdog at mac.com Mon Jun 6 13:54:01 2005 From: soapdog at mac.com (Andre Garzia) Date: Mon, 6 Jun 2005 14:54:01 -0300 Subject: Uh-oh.... Anybody following WWDC? In-Reply-To: <42A48C99.3090906@fourthworld.com> References: <42A48C99.3090906@fourthworld.com> Message-ID: On Jun 6, 2005, at 2:49 PM, Richard Gaskin wrote: > Judy Perry wrote: >> Yeah. Time to go puke in 6 colours. >> ;-/ >> Judy >> On Mon, 6 Jun 2005, Andre Garzia wrote: >>> I am... . OMFG!!!!!!!!!!!! (I am sick) > > Cheaper faster Macs got you down? > > As Rev users, we get to coast on the sweat RunRev has to put into > this. So while most developers will be hurting (I suspect many will > leave) we get to coast on the coattails of the good folks at Edinburgh > for the low cost of a Rev upgrade. :) > * Widget/Scripts/Java --> Just work. Cocoa --Xcode (tweaks, recompile) --> A few days. Carbon - Xcode (twek, recompile) --> A few weeks. Carbon Apps --Metroweks -- Jobs says to transfer to Xcode. Over half of 100 developers using Xcode. Nex Xcode 2.1 delivered today. News Xcode generates a single "universal binary" that supports both processors. Available to everybody at registration desk following the keynote. [10:37 am] Fat binaries are back!!! so we'll soon have a 68k + ppc + intel mac fat binaries, can runrev cope with that? * Develpoer Kit includes 3.6GHz Pentium 4. OS X 10.4.1 for Intel (preview release). Order today; available in two weeks. I think runrev should acquire a couple... Andre > -- > Richard Gaskin > Fourth World Media Corporation > __________________________________________________ > Rev tools and more: http://www.fourthworld.com/rev > _______________________________________________ > use-revolution mailing list > use-revolution at lists.runrev.com > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution > > -- Andre Alves Garzia ? 2004 Soap Dog Studios - BRAZIL http://studio.soapdog.org From jperryl at ecs.fullerton.edu Mon Jun 6 13:54:30 2005 From: jperryl at ecs.fullerton.edu (Judy Perry) Date: Mon, 6 Jun 2005 10:54:30 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Uh-oh.... Anybody following WWDC? In-Reply-To: <42A48C99.3090906@fourthworld.com> Message-ID: Yeah, but what about the money we have invested in PPC-native apps? Do we get those all free? Is this why it's been more than a year since we've had a major Rev release? Kinda makes me feel less guilty that I let my personal studio subscription lapse due to finances. I dunno... I kinda like my dual G4 desktop And I thought my biggest hardware/software issue was trying to find a way to purchase an affordable secondhand copy of QuarkXPress ;-) Still, I think I need some Tums... Fast. Judy On Mon, 6 Jun 2005, Richard Gaskin wrote: > Cheaper faster Macs got you down? > > As Rev users, we get to coast on the sweat RunRev has to put into this. > So while most developers will be hurting (I suspect many will leave) we > get to coast on the coattails of the good folks at Edinburgh for the low > cost of a Rev upgrade. :) From jperryl at ecs.fullerton.edu Mon Jun 6 13:57:23 2005 From: jperryl at ecs.fullerton.edu (Judy Perry) Date: Mon, 6 Jun 2005 10:57:23 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Uh-oh.... Anybody following WWDC? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: If they haven't already... On Mon, 6 Jun 2005, Andre Garzia wrote: > > On Jun 6, 2005, at 2:49 PM, Richard Gaskin wrote: > > > Judy Perry wrote: > >> Yeah. Time to go puke in 6 colours. > >> ;-/ > >> Judy > >> On Mon, 6 Jun 2005, Andre Garzia wrote: > >>> I am... . OMFG!!!!!!!!!!!! (I am sick) > > > > Cheaper faster Macs got you down? > > > > As Rev users, we get to coast on the sweat RunRev has to put into > > this. So while most developers will be hurting (I suspect many will > > leave) we get to coast on the coattails of the good folks at Edinburgh > > for the low cost of a Rev upgrade. :) > > > > > * Widget/Scripts/Java --> Just work. Cocoa --Xcode (tweaks, > recompile) --> A few days. Carbon - Xcode (twek, recompile) --> A few > weeks. Carbon Apps --Metroweks -- Jobs says to transfer to Xcode. Over > half of 100 developers using Xcode. Nex Xcode 2.1 delivered today. News > Xcode generates a single "universal binary" that supports both > processors. Available to everybody at registration desk following the > keynote. [10:37 am] > > > Fat binaries are back!!! so we'll soon have a 68k + ppc + intel mac fat > binaries, can runrev cope with that? > > * Develpoer Kit includes 3.6GHz Pentium 4. OS X 10.4.1 for Intel > (preview release). Order today; available in two weeks. > > > I think runrev should acquire a couple... > > Andre > > > > -- > > Richard Gaskin > > Fourth World Media Corporation > > __________________________________________________ > > Rev tools and more: http://www.fourthworld.com/rev > > _______________________________________________ > > use-revolution mailing list > > use-revolution at lists.runrev.com > > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution > > > > > -- > Andre Alves Garzia ? 2004 > Soap Dog Studios - BRAZIL > http://studio.soapdog.org > _______________________________________________ > use-revolution mailing list > use-revolution at lists.runrev.com > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution > From gwalias-rev at yahoo.com Mon Jun 6 13:58:07 2005 From: gwalias-rev at yahoo.com (Gordon Webster) Date: Mon, 6 Jun 2005 10:58:07 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Transitive? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20050606175808.370.qmail@web51101.mail.yahoo.com> I would say that this is hardly a case of Apple "leading the way". It's a workaround that Apple has been forced to adopt as a result of the already poor strategy of basing their hardware on a Motorola chipset that is evolving so slowly it is threatening to become obsolete. More Jurassic Park than Xerox parc. Apple actually considered migrating their hardware to Intel some years ago, but in spite of seeing an urgent need for it even then, they were unable to pursue the strategy since they considered it would be too disruptive. A major reason for this was the impact that it would have on their developers. Considering how Apple has progressively relinquished its market share to other platforms over the last decade or two, the sad truth of the matter is that they cannot afford to make life harder for the already small number (relatively speaking) of developers who currently target their hardware. The adoption of Transitive's technology is therefore an escape hatch from a poor business strategy rather than any kind of triumph of innovation on Apple's part. It just allows them to transition to Intel chipsets while maintaining backward compatibility with their old hardware for a year or two, to keep their shrinking user base happy. Hardly cause for a parade I think. Before all the Apple afficianado's on this list jump down my throat for this, let me add that I think that Apple has potentially the best home computer products on the market and an OS that is second to none. I am no fan of the MS hegemony either and I would LOVE to see Apple succeed and win the war of the desktop. I would like to be able to own one myself but the simple truth is I get so much more computer for my money using Intel/Linux and so much more choice of software to run on it as well. By analogy perhaps and for those of you who enjoy photography - consider the recent, effective demise of the Leica Camera company. Paraphrasing the Leica chairman: "We're a niche market with a loyal following of more discerning customers" - sounds familiar doesn't it! I pray that Apple will be smarter than this in the future. Gordon --- Dennis Brown wrote: > Richard, > > That is what they do --take an app running on one OS > and one chip and > make it run on another OS and another chip. No > trivial task, but > they can do it. The face of software development > may be about to > open up to all platforms, and the face of hardware > development > opening up to be released from legacy restrictions. > And as usual > Apple will lead the way for the whole industry. > > Dennis From alex at tweedly.net Mon Jun 6 14:06:35 2005 From: alex at tweedly.net (Alex Tweedly) Date: Mon, 06 Jun 2005 19:06:35 +0100 Subject: dump newbie image questiosn In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <42A490AB.1010408@tweedly.net> John Ridge wrote: >Alex, do you want the good news or the bad news? Well, actually, they're the >same - your mega photo works just fine in all three modes on my machine (G4 >Mac OS9). It also opens in Apple's PictureViewer. Great camera! The >resolution at full size is quite something - a steady hand, too, of >course... > > Didn't need that steady a hand - it was taken at 1/500 th at F5.6; Malta is bright, so even when slightly overcast as it was then, there's a lot of light around. >So what the x-platform is going on? > I suspect it's a Windows specific problem - I'm about to try it on other Windows machines in case it's more specific than that (but all I have access to today is Win XP machines) ...... Aaaaaargh ! It works fine on both other machines - its a problem specific to MY laptop. I can't decide if that's good news or bad news :-) Time to go look for driver updates, etc. - sorry about the extra traffic on the list ... -- Alex Tweedly http://www.tweedly.net -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.323 / Virus Database: 267.6.2 - Release Date: 04/06/2005 From ambassador at fourthworld.com Mon Jun 6 14:12:50 2005 From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin) Date: Mon, 06 Jun 2005 11:12:50 -0700 Subject: Uh-oh.... Anybody following WWDC? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <42A49222.9090103@fourthworld.com> Judy Perry wrote: > Yeah, but what about the money we have invested in PPC-native apps? Do we > get those all free? Nope. That's part of the Mac Tax we've all been paying for years. Artificial demand is how Apple keeps itself and its vendors in sales. They can't do it just a 2.5% marketshare, and if you take iPods out of the picture their revenue position rather bites. Apple can only stay afloat by selling the same product to the same customers over and over. We pay an annual OS X tax of $139, even though the first two (arguably three) releases were of beta quality. Sure, there are the occassional switchers. But I doubt many of the 2 million Tiger sales went to them. For vendors, Apple was the only major vendor who transitioned to USB without continuing support for legacy ports. This created an artificial demand for new peripherals, and a lot of vendors who were leaving decided to stay to cash in. Apple needs vendors, vendors need disproportionate sales to justify the disproportionate R&D. It's good for everyone -- except the consumer who gets the bill. So if we love the Mac platform enough to have endured these things for so long, is a third set of arbitrary paid upgrades really that much more expensive than the two we've already paid for? Like a friend keeps telling me, "It's an economic democracy: one dollar, one vote". If we want to vote for Apple we pony up the cash. If not, there's always Linux. It's already available for both x86 and PPC. ;) > I dunno... I kinda like my dual G4 desktop I still love my Power Computing box. It still does what I bought it for, but that hasn't stopped me from buying newer computers in recent years. I suspect you'll get far more than two years' life out of your G4. Just as with PPC, a switch to Intel doesn't mean your current Mac will suddenly stop working. -- Richard Gaskin Fourth World Media Corporation __________________________________________________ Rev tools and more: http://www.fourthworld.com/rev From mwieder at ahsoftware.net Mon Jun 6 14:15:57 2005 From: mwieder at ahsoftware.net (Mark Wieder) Date: Mon, 6 Jun 2005 11:15:57 -0700 Subject: HTTPS and Root.pem... In-Reply-To: References: <120f337a5b5899285cefc5fcb4b1afc4@swcp.com> <1118005116.507.0.camel@rachmaninov> <9707a0c8743610dca0f9d280d1b0b23a@mac.com> <27a143718d0707b6a40900b20eb7c31f@swcp.com> <8791CB80-B9AE-4F58-B4F0-3DA79AD49A7B@lacscentre.co.uk> <71da43d2762c271a711eadfbb5bab9b8@mac.com> Message-ID: <1479153822.20050606111557@ahsoftware.net> Dave- Monday, June 6, 2005, 10:40:25 AM, you wrote: DC> Not altogether undocumented. You can get it here: DC> http://support.runrev.com/resources/liburlrealdocs.html !!! Some reason that isn't in the docs? !!! Let's see what it takes to find the libUrl documentation (assuming you know it exists somewhere): Go to www.runrev.com Go to Resources and Support at the top Click on LibURL at the left Click on Documentation in the content window Click on Click Here (any idea why this step is necessary? liburldocs.php seems like a totally unnecessary web page) -- -Mark Wieder mwieder at ahsoftware.net From jmac at consensustech.com Mon Jun 6 14:18:32 2005 From: jmac at consensustech.com (Jim MacConnell) Date: Mon, 06 Jun 2005 11:18:32 -0700 Subject: Uh-oh.... Anybody following WWDC? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Ugh... I hate the idea of Mactel machines... But maybe it doesn't matter if we a get better performance? Can that be possible? Does this open up new graphics performance worlds for Mac Gaming?........ Is this actually a good thing since the PowerPC has had trouble "growing" the way I think everyone expected... Is Apple now better off (more stable chip supply) or worse off (looking more like a software company all the time with a vestigial computer arm?) Jim From Bill at BlueWaterMaritime.com Mon Jun 6 14:19:20 2005 From: Bill at BlueWaterMaritime.com (Bill Humphrey) Date: Mon, 06 Jun 2005 14:19:20 -0400 Subject: Uh-oh.... Anybody following WWDC? In-Reply-To: <42A49222.9090103@fourthworld.com> References: <42A49222.9090103@fourthworld.com> Message-ID: <42A493A8.20903@BlueWaterMaritime.com> You left out the given for any computer platform that all your hardware has to be replaced every three years or so even though it still works perfectly because hardware advances are so great in such short cycles and tied with software advances that you have to (if you want to enjoy those advances). There is a Luddite answer for all this but then a Luddite wouldn't even have a computer in the first place. Richard Gaskin wrote: > Judy Perry wrote: > >> Yeah, but what about the money we have invested in PPC-native apps? >> Do we >> get those all free? > > > Nope. That's part of the Mac Tax we've all been paying for years. > > Artificial demand is how Apple keeps itself and its vendors in sales. > They can't do it just a 2.5% marketshare, and if you take iPods out of > the picture their revenue position rather bites. > > Apple can only stay afloat by selling the same product to the same > customers over and over. We pay an annual OS X tax of $139, even > though the first two (arguably three) releases were of beta quality. > Sure, there are the occassional switchers. But I doubt many of the 2 > million Tiger sales went to them. > > For vendors, Apple was the only major vendor who transitioned to USB > without continuing support for legacy ports. This created an > artificial demand for new peripherals, and a lot of vendors who were > leaving decided to stay to cash in. Apple needs vendors, vendors need > disproportionate sales to justify the disproportionate R&D. It's good > for everyone -- except the consumer who gets the bill. > > So if we love the Mac platform enough to have endured these things for > so long, is a third set of arbitrary paid upgrades really that much > more expensive than the two we've already paid for? > > Like a friend keeps telling me, "It's an economic democracy: one > dollar, one vote". If we want to vote for Apple we pony up the cash. > > If not, there's always Linux. It's already available for both x86 and > PPC. ;) > > >> I dunno... I kinda like my dual G4 desktop > > > I still love my Power Computing box. It still does what I bought it > for, but that hasn't stopped me from buying newer computers in recent > years. > > I suspect you'll get far more than two years' life out of your G4. > Just as with PPC, a switch to Intel doesn't mean your current Mac will > suddenly stop working. > > -- > Richard Gaskin > Fourth World Media Corporation > __________________________________________________ > Rev tools and more: http://www.fourthworld.com/rev > _______________________________________________ > use-revolution mailing list > use-revolution at lists.runrev.com > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution > > > From soapdog at mac.com Mon Jun 6 14:19:38 2005 From: soapdog at mac.com (Andre Garzia) Date: Mon, 6 Jun 2005 15:19:38 -0300 Subject: Uh-oh.... Anybody following WWDC? In-Reply-To: <42A49222.9090103@fourthworld.com> References: <42A49222.9090103@fourthworld.com> Message-ID: <678fc9a4960532942c94cbba488bcf2a@mac.com> For the love of God, all my objC code will need a rebuild, also all externals for mac will need one too... Also, who will buy a G5 now? Andre From jperryl at ecs.fullerton.edu Mon Jun 6 14:19:47 2005 From: jperryl at ecs.fullerton.edu (Judy Perry) Date: Mon, 6 Jun 2005 11:19:47 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Uh-oh.... Anybody following WWDC? In-Reply-To: <42A49222.9090103@fourthworld.com> Message-ID: I know, I know. sniffle. Besides, the Rosetta thingy looks interesting, but I suspect it will be around about as long, if not less long, than Classic emulation. We're gonna need heat shields for aluminum-cased laptops... And, wasn't it you who recently told another poster that s/he was wrong about the 2% marketshare quote? Judy On Mon, 6 Jun 2005, Richard Gaskin wrote: > Artificial demand is how Apple keeps itself and its vendors in sales. > They can't do it just a 2.5% marketshare, and if you take iPods out of > the picture their revenue position rather bites. > > Apple can only stay afloat by selling the same product to the same > customers over and over. We pay an annual OS X tax of $139, even though > the first two (arguably three) releases were of beta quality. Sure, > there are the occassional switchers. But I doubt many of the 2 million > Tiger sales went to them. > > For vendors, Apple was the only major vendor who transitioned to USB > without continuing support for legacy ports. This created an artificial > demand for new peripherals, and a lot of vendors who were leaving > decided to stay to cash in. Apple needs vendors, vendors need > disproportionate sales to justify the disproportionate R&D. It's good > for everyone -- except the consumer who gets the bill. > > So if we love the Mac platform enough to have endured these things for > so long, is a third set of arbitrary paid upgrades really that much more > expensive than the two we've already paid for? > > Like a friend keeps telling me, "It's an economic democracy: one > dollar, one vote". If we want to vote for Apple we pony up the cash. > > If not, there's always Linux. It's already available for both x86 and > PPC. ;) From emilio at ualberta.ca Mon Jun 6 14:19:52 2005 From: emilio at ualberta.ca (Emilio Gagliardi) Date: Mon, 6 Jun 2005 12:19:52 -0600 Subject: Advice on: sharing data between stacks Message-ID: <5D526AEF-694C-457C-9F5E-3AB498C38FF8@ualberta.ca> Hello, I was wondering what the best mechanism is to share data between loaded stacks. I am trying to build a utility stack (that will always load first. I guess that makes it a standalone application) that gathers some demographic information, loads a second stack, which performs some custom task based on the demographic data, accepts data from the second stack, and writes a combination of the user data and retrieved data to a file. The second stack is dynamically selected (based on the directory structure and file nomenclature) so I want to make the sharing generic. But I am new to runrev so this might not be a good idea. The plan is to create the utility standalone application to be dropped onto a parent directory. The user selects some child directory (modifying defaultfolders) which contains a custom stack for performing some function. The custom stack generates lists or arrays of data and calls a handler in the utility application to handle the writing of data to disk. The premise is that many different people will write the custom stacks to do various unrelated tasks, but they all must save data in a consistent format to a central location. I want to move the code, which writes the data to a file, out of each custom stack and place it in a central stack because then the end user doesn't have to worry about the mechanics or guidelines that I impose when writing the data file. Here is how I envision the usage /Disk/Parent/GenericStack.rev 1) user selects a directory 2) directory contains another stack (ex. load great grandchild 2) 3) user provides data for several variables (ex. a file name) 4) pass file name to great grand child2 5) write data from great grand child 2 to file /Disk/Parent/Child/Grandchild/GreatGrandChild.rev 1) use file name from GenericStack 2) do some task 3) pass the data back to GenericStack.rev /Disk/Parent/Child/Grandchild/GreatGrandChild2.rev 1) use file name from GenericStack 2) do some task 3) pass the data back to GenericStack.rev Any suggestions are greatly appreciated. Cheers, Emilio From mwieder at ahsoftware.net Mon Jun 6 14:24:44 2005 From: mwieder at ahsoftware.net (Mark Wieder) Date: Mon, 6 Jun 2005 11:24:44 -0700 Subject: Uh-oh.... Anybody following WWDC? In-Reply-To: <42A48C99.3090906@fourthworld.com> References: <42A48C99.3090906@fourthworld.com> Message-ID: <599680840.20050606112444@ahsoftware.net> Richard- Monday, June 6, 2005, 10:49:13 AM, you wrote: RG> Cheaper faster Macs got you down? I know you always look on the bright side of things, but... One thing this means is that developers will have to support Yet Another Platform - developing for Macs will now mean versions for OS9, OSX PPC and OSX Leopard. Granted, it just means another build in runrev, but it increases maintenance headaches for everybody. Also, Apple is creating a serious hardware problem for itself in the short run. Boy, am I glad I didn't buy that new mac mini earlier this year. Would I buy a new PowerPC-based computer, knowing that its CPU has just been end-of-lifed and that newly-produced software won't run on it soon? Not on your life. -- -Mark Wieder mwieder at ahsoftware.net From revolution at derbrill.de Mon Jun 6 14:24:14 2005 From: revolution at derbrill.de (Malte Brill) Date: Mon, 6 Jun 2005 20:24:14 +0200 Subject: clear fields -- a faster way In-Reply-To: <20050606170727.A3D1A9300E8@mail.runrev.com> Message-ID: <2F7C6DA6-D6B8-11D9-8515-0030659A795C@derbrill.de> Hi Bill, >I want to clear fields like this: >repeat for each field tField in card "DocApplication" of stack >"CustomForms" > put empty into tField >end repeat >but I keep getting the error "bad terminator" -- what am I doing wrong? As written before repeat for each does only work for chunk expressions. It also only makes sense if you got *really* many fields (100+) If you urgently want to use repeat for each you can store the ID of all fields to be cleared in a custom property, each ID on a line in the cProp and do it this way: repeat for each line theFieldToBeCleared in the cAllFields of this cd put empty into fld theFieldToBeCleared end repeat Cheers, Malte From lists at mangomultimedia.com Mon Jun 6 14:34:51 2005 From: lists at mangomultimedia.com (Trevor DeVore) Date: Mon, 6 Jun 2005 11:34:51 -0700 Subject: Uh-oh.... Anybody following WWDC? In-Reply-To: <599680840.20050606112444@ahsoftware.net> References: <42A48C99.3090906@fourthworld.com> <599680840.20050606112444@ahsoftware.net> Message-ID: On Jun 6, 2005, at 11:24 AM, Mark Wieder wrote: > Would I buy a new PowerPC-based computer, knowing that its CPU > has just been end-of-lifed and that newly-produced software won't run > on it soon? Not on your life. Why won't newly-produced software run on it? Based on what was announced it seems that new software created with XCode 2.1 will run on Intel and PPC chips. Maybe I misunderstood. -- Trevor DeVore Blue Mango Multimedia trevor at mangomultimedia.com From dsc at swcp.com Mon Jun 6 14:38:42 2005 From: dsc at swcp.com (Dar Scott) Date: Mon, 6 Jun 2005 12:38:42 -0600 Subject: Uh-oh.... Anybody following WWDC? In-Reply-To: <599680840.20050606112444@ahsoftware.net> References: <42A48C99.3090906@fourthworld.com> <599680840.20050606112444@ahsoftware.net> Message-ID: On Jun 6, 2005, at 12:24 PM, Mark Wieder wrote: > Also, Apple is creating a serious hardware problem for itself in the > short run. Boy, am I glad I didn't buy that new mac mini earlier this > year. Would I buy a new PowerPC-based computer, knowing that its CPU > has just been end-of-lifed and that newly-produced software won't run > on it soon? Not on your life. Maybe a PowerPC-based Mac Mini is just the thing for supporting a certain class of customers. Dar -- ********************************************** DSC (Dar Scott Consulting & Dar's Lab) http://www.swcp.com/dsc/ Yahoo! RevCon West in 11 days! ********************************************** From pevensen at siboneylg.com Mon Jun 6 14:40:43 2005 From: pevensen at siboneylg.com (Peter T. Evensen) Date: Mon, 06 Jun 2005 13:40:43 -0500 Subject: Spam:Re: Uh-oh.... Anybody following WWDC? In-Reply-To: References: <42A48C99.3090906@fourthworld.com> Message-ID: <6.2.1.2.2.20050606134008.128e2410@exchange.slg.com> PowerPC apps will still run through a binary code translator called Rosetta. At 12:54 PM 6/6/2005, you wrote: >Yeah, but what about the money we have invested in PPC-native apps? Do we >get those all free? > >Is this why it's been more than a year since we've had a major Rev >release? Kinda makes me feel less guilty that I let my personal studio >subscription lapse due to finances. > >I dunno... I kinda like my dual G4 desktop > >And I thought my biggest hardware/software issue was trying to find a way >to purchase an affordable secondhand copy of QuarkXPress ;-) > >Still, I think I need some Tums... Fast. > >Judy > >On Mon, 6 Jun 2005, Richard Gaskin wrote: > > > Cheaper faster Macs got you down? > > > > As Rev users, we get to coast on the sweat RunRev has to put into this. > > So while most developers will be hurting (I suspect many will leave) we > > get to coast on the coattails of the good folks at Edinburgh for the low > > cost of a Rev upgrade. :) > >_______________________________________________ >use-revolution mailing list >use-revolution at lists.runrev.com >http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution Peter T. Evensen http://www.PetersRoadToHealth.com 24-hour recorded info hotline: 1-800-624-7671 From mikeythek at gmail.com Mon Jun 6 14:40:24 2005 From: mikeythek at gmail.com (Mikey) Date: Mon, 6 Jun 2005 14:40:24 -0400 Subject: Uh-oh.... Anybody following WWDC? In-Reply-To: References: <42A48C99.3090906@fourthworld.com> <599680840.20050606112444@ahsoftware.net> Message-ID: <9b408d8e05060611401f553bc9@mail.gmail.com> Thangs need to be recompiled for both platforms. In addition, the developer will have to be making a new version of a Fat binary (now it's called a Universal binary). As Stevie announced, Cocoa apps will have to be moderately rewritten as will most others. Also I don't think 2.1 has been released yet, but it has been announced. -- http://taoof4d.blogspot.com http://4dwishlist.blogspot.com On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth On the second day, God created the oceans. On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours, and did a little diving. And God said, "This is good." From soapdog at mac.com Mon Jun 6 14:47:25 2005 From: soapdog at mac.com (Andre Garzia) Date: Mon, 6 Jun 2005 15:47:25 -0300 Subject: two questions (was Re: Uh-oh.... Anybody following WWDC?) In-Reply-To: References: <42A48C99.3090906@fourthworld.com> <599680840.20050606112444@ahsoftware.net> Message-ID: First of all, where will our altivec and nice array number juggling go? and those extra registers? and the thing about little endian and big endian? anyone assuming byte orders and stuff like that will be doomed to the hell of debugging. Second, how does it affects us developers? and how it affects RunRev? Generation of code for MacOS X will have to be fat binary now, can two versions of the engine co-exist in the same file? Will the port of Revolution be easy? now, forgetting the hell freezes over tales, can this be a oportunity like a race for RunRev, I don't see many jumping the bandwaggon now. This could pose as a nice chance for RunRev to port Revolution fast to the new architecture and be one of the first easy to use development tool available on the new (... damn) platform. Since our code is engine based, as long as the engine runs, all our apps will run (... externals should need recompilation). The XCode 2.1 is already available for those luck enough to be at WWDC, expect it to reach developers.apple.com soon. man, I am both afraid and curious. -- Andre Alves Garzia ? 2004 Soap Dog Studios - BRAZIL http://studio.soapdog.org From dsc at swcp.com Mon Jun 6 14:50:14 2005 From: dsc at swcp.com (Dar Scott) Date: Mon, 6 Jun 2005 12:50:14 -0600 Subject: Uh-oh.... Anybody following WWDC? In-Reply-To: <678fc9a4960532942c94cbba488bcf2a@mac.com> References: <42A49222.9090103@fourthworld.com> <678fc9a4960532942c94cbba488bcf2a@mac.com> Message-ID: <9928efbf7f1d300e360ed40ad85c3a06@swcp.com> On Jun 6, 2005, at 12:19 PM, Andre Garzia wrote: > For the love of God, all my objC code will need a rebuild, also all > externals for mac will need one too... One would hope that would be trivial and can be done overnight, but there are likely to be compromises that have to be addressed by hand. Even then, that might not be so bad. > Also, who will buy a G5 now? That may the bigger issue. If the Apple plane goes into a nose-dive, I might not get my soda and peanuts. You might not get that mass conversion utility. I wonder if this means more freeBSD utilities will be available. This may not mean that OS X can run on a PC or the other way around. Is this related to Metrowerks selling their '86 compiler? In our scripts we should not depend on OS X as an indicator of byte order. Dar -- ********************************************** DSC (Dar Scott Consulting & Dar's Lab) http://www.swcp.com/dsc/ A pig's gotta fly. -- Porco Rosso ********************************************** From revolution at derbrill.de Mon Jun 6 14:51:36 2005 From: revolution at derbrill.de (Malte Brill) Date: Mon, 6 Jun 2005 20:51:36 +0200 Subject: clear fields -- a faster way Message-ID: <023E7486-D6BC-11D9-8515-0030659A795C@derbrill.de> I wrote > > >repeat for each line theFieldToBeCleared in the cAllFields of this cd > > put empty into fld theFieldToBeCleared > >end repeat > > Typo alert! needs to read put empty into fld ID theFieldToBeCleared From lynn at paradigmasoft.com Mon Jun 6 14:52:41 2005 From: lynn at paradigmasoft.com (Lynn Fredricks) Date: Mon, 6 Jun 2005 11:52:41 -0700 Subject: Uh-oh.... Anybody following WWDC? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <1094038531-70336760@lindbergh.macserve.net> > Mac OS X has been leading secret double life. Every Mac > project build for Intel and PowerPC and Intel. Every release > of Mac OS X has been built for both Intel and PowerPC-based > Macs. For the last 5 years. Mac OS X is cross-platform by > design. Apple's demo is on an Intel-based system. Jobs shows > all Mac OS X Tiger features are already compatible with > Intel-based processors. [10:32 am] This makes sense for both Apple and Intel, and really is no big surprise. The "Star Trek" project has long been talked about. The guts of OS X came from NextStep, which last flourished on Intel before flaming out. My guess is that this will not be a simple port to the post x86 platform but something in which Apple/Intel will keep control over the entire platform (and keep out AMD, etc). I like the Jobs quote about gigahertz and delivering a PPC 3 ghz system. Soooo much has gone into the argument that clock rating isnt important. Best regards, Lynn Fredricks President Paradigma Software, Inc Joining Worlds of Information Deploy True Client-Server Database Solutions Royalty Free with Valentina Developer Network http://www.paradigmasoft.com From chipp at chipp.com Mon Jun 6 14:53:21 2005 From: chipp at chipp.com (Chipp Walters) Date: Mon, 06 Jun 2005 13:53:21 -0500 Subject: rev interferes with Mozilla ThunderBird In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <42A49BA1.3090801@chipp.com> I've been using Rev successfully with Tbird for years now, with no problems, on both Mac and PC's. best, Chipp Ken Ray wrote: >>Does any of this sound familiar to any of you? > > > Not to me... and AFAIK Rev doesn't "reach out" to any applications while > it's running, unless you do something like "revMail" which would call your > default mail client. From see3d at writeme.com Mon Jun 6 14:57:19 2005 From: see3d at writeme.com (Dennis Brown) Date: Mon, 06 Jun 2005 14:57:19 -0400 Subject: Uh-oh.... Anybody following WWDC? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Apple will win big in one sense. Apple will not have to put energy into an alternative processor path that may or may not perform as well as other Intel based PCs. Apple will be able to get a free ride in this area and the MegaHertz "Processor War" will no longer be an issue. By breaking with the Mot/IBM architectures, and embracing the Transitive (Rosetta) technology, Apple has opened the door to other more advanced architectures from Intel in the future --as well as from other suppliers (including IBM if warranted). I have never been a fan of Intel X86 architectures. I designed/built my first 8008 based processor when they first came out. When the 8080 came out, it was the same lame instruction set with a superset. I switched to the 6800 for my CPUs at that time, because I had to program my applications in machine code. However, I also designed Z80 and 8080 CPU based systems for special applications. By the time the 68K came out, I was out of the CPU hardware business, but I had learned a lot about the problems of differing native hardware and had already developed emulators and low level languages that were cross platform compatible --like the MC engine. Believe me when I say that Apple has positioned itself well. They might have made this switch earlier if IBM had not promised to win the MHz war. But IBM fell down on the job --leaving Steve with egg on his face (not a good thing to do to your customer). Apple also had to wait for the Transitive technology to mature. I am sure this is marking the end of Apple's reliance on any single supplier or CPU architecture. This could also be a move by Apple to start positioning itself to challenge MS for the Desktop. They can't risk an open move like that yet, but the transitive technology could open the door to run windows apps "Natively" under the Mac OS X without slow emulation software. That would really kick Bill in the teeth --which I am sure Steve has been aching to do since he swiped windows from him. Dennis On Jun 6, 2005, at 2:18 PM, Jim MacConnell wrote: > Ugh... I hate the idea of Mactel machines... > > But maybe it doesn't matter if we a get better performance? Can > that be > possible? Does this open up new graphics performance worlds for Mac > Gaming?........ > > Is this actually a good thing since the PowerPC has had trouble > "growing" > the way I think everyone expected... Is Apple now better off (more > stable > chip supply) or worse off (looking more like a software company all > the time > with a vestigial computer arm?) > > Jim > > > _______________________________________________ > use-revolution mailing list > use-revolution at lists.runrev.com > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution > From chipp at chipp.com Mon Jun 6 15:00:13 2005 From: chipp at chipp.com (Chipp Walters) Date: Mon, 06 Jun 2005 14:00:13 -0500 Subject: who's out there? In-Reply-To: <42A322E2.8030304@sover.net> References: <42A322E2.8030304@sover.net> Message-ID: <42A49D3D.7000702@chipp.com> Our company, Altuit, uses Rev as our primary client delivery platform. Currently we've used it successfully on Macs, PC's and recently we delivered an enterprise Linux application. We recently finished and delivered eXpertSystem, the follow-up product to IdeaFisher, an industry recognized brainstorming tool. More can be learned about eXpertSystem at: http://www.expertlingo.com/ (Sorry, Troy, I didn't name it :-) We also have a cross-platform Content Management System with plugins called Hemingway which is used to build literally thousands of Webs. Not to mention other products, like ButtonGadget, MagicCarpet, ImageGadget and more. We love Rev! Can't imaging programming w/out it. Once you get the hang of it, things work great! best, Chipp Jon wrote: > I'm curious. How many of you use Rev to make a living, and how many of > you just play with it. I'm at the point where I can't believe anyone > could use it to do serious development. It is just too buggy, syntax > idiosyncrasies and sloth aside. From ridge11103 at btinternet.com Mon Jun 6 15:02:23 2005 From: ridge11103 at btinternet.com (John Ridge) Date: Mon, 06 Jun 2005 20:02:23 +0100 Subject: Report Picker Message-ID: Eric I've been looking at Report Picker - boy, this would have been useful with Hypercard! I can't say I've tested it exhaustively, but it seems to work fine under Mac OS 9.2 Many thanks John -- From dsc at swcp.com Mon Jun 6 15:03:42 2005 From: dsc at swcp.com (Dar Scott) Date: Mon, 6 Jun 2005 13:03:42 -0600 Subject: two questions (was Re: Uh-oh.... Anybody following WWDC?) In-Reply-To: References: <42A48C99.3090906@fourthworld.com> <599680840.20050606112444@ahsoftware.net> Message-ID: On Jun 6, 2005, at 12:47 PM, Andre Garzia wrote: > and the thing about little endian and big endian? anyone assuming byte > orders and stuff like that will be doomed to the hell of debugging. We can stop making those assumptions right now. Untested... function platformIsBigEndian return (char 1 of binaryEncode("I",1)) is null end platformIsBigEndian Note that some processors, maybe not that Rev is on, use a "middle endian" mixed approach for 32-bit integers. Presumably, this will match the unicode (UTF16) order used by Revolution, but if you are paranoid you can make a similar test using numTochar(): -- just keyed into the mail -- This assume unicode is some form of UTF16 function unicodeIsUTF16BE set the useUnicode to true return (char 1 of numToChar(1)) is null end unicodeIsUTF16BE Dar -- ********************************************** DSC (Dar Scott Consulting & Dar's Lab) http://www.swcp.com/dsc/ Programming and software ********************************************** From stephenREVOLUTION at barncard.com Mon Jun 6 15:06:56 2005 From: stephenREVOLUTION at barncard.com (Stephen Barncard) Date: Mon, 6 Jun 2005 12:06:56 -0700 Subject: Uh-oh.... Anybody following WWDC? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Nice for Apple, maybe not so nice for developers and users... At 10:35 AM -0700 6/6/05, Judy Perry wrote: > >From macnn.com's coverage: > >Mac OS X has been leading secret double life. Every Mac project build for >Intel and PowerPC and Intel. Every release of Mac OS X has been built for >both Intel and PowerPC-based Macs. For the last 5 years. Mac OS X is >cross-platform by design. Apple's demo is on an Intel-based system. Jobs >shows all Mac OS X Tiger features are already compatible with Intel-based >processors. [10:32 am] > >Judy From soapdog at mac.com Mon Jun 6 15:09:21 2005 From: soapdog at mac.com (Andre Garzia) Date: Mon, 6 Jun 2005 16:09:21 -0300 Subject: two questions (was Re: Uh-oh.... Anybody following WWDC?) In-Reply-To: References: <42A48C99.3090906@fourthworld.com> <599680840.20050606112444@ahsoftware.net> Message-ID: Thanks for the tests Dar, that was not my major fear, what I really fear is that the sales of PPC machines will drop so much out of FUD that apple will have a hard time... I think I am afraid of their profits sinking and things going all like armagedon... andre On Jun 6, 2005, at 4:03 PM, Dar Scott wrote: > > On Jun 6, 2005, at 12:47 PM, Andre Garzia wrote: > >> and the thing about little endian and big endian? anyone assuming >> byte orders and stuff like that will be doomed to the hell of >> debugging. > > We can stop making those assumptions right now. > > Untested... > > function platformIsBigEndian > return (char 1 of binaryEncode("I",1)) is null > end platformIsBigEndian > > Note that some processors, maybe not that Rev is on, use a "middle > endian" mixed approach for 32-bit integers. > > Presumably, this will match the unicode (UTF16) order used by > Revolution, but if you are paranoid you can make a similar test using > numTochar(): > > -- just keyed into the mail > -- This assume unicode is some form of UTF16 > function unicodeIsUTF16BE > set the useUnicode to true > return (char 1 of numToChar(1)) is null > end unicodeIsUTF16BE > > Dar > > -- > ********************************************** > DSC (Dar Scott Consulting & Dar's Lab) > http://www.swcp.com/dsc/ > Programming and software > ********************************************** > > _______________________________________________ > use-revolution mailing list > use-revolution at lists.runrev.com > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution > > -- Andre Alves Garzia ? 2004 Soap Dog Studios - BRAZIL http://studio.soapdog.org From troy at rpsystems.net Mon Jun 6 15:10:18 2005 From: troy at rpsystems.net (Troy Rollins) Date: Mon, 6 Jun 2005 15:10:18 -0400 Subject: who's out there? In-Reply-To: <42A49D3D.7000702@chipp.com> References: <42A322E2.8030304@sover.net> <42A49D3D.7000702@chipp.com> Message-ID: <41a7b7e2c3fecb7de4a573d75f347985@rpsystems.net> On Jun 6, 2005, at 3:00 PM, Chipp Walters wrote: > http://www.expertlingo.com/ > > (Sorry, Troy, I didn't name it :-) ;-D -- Troy RPSystems, Ltd. http://www.rpsystems.net From chipp at chipp.com Mon Jun 6 15:17:46 2005 From: chipp at chipp.com (Chipp Walters) Date: Mon, 06 Jun 2005 14:17:46 -0500 Subject: who's out there? In-Reply-To: <42A3A56E.7070801@sover.net> References: <42A322E2.8030304@sover.net> <0bc7405d90658cc3256ffa73f4f9d677@mac.com> <1F1160BF-163D-43EB-AF24-F5053369052F@danshafer.com> <42A3A56E.7070801@sover.net> Message-ID: <42A4A15A.6090805@chipp.com> Jon, I wrote a succinct reply to this bug, which if you adhere to, will solve this problem. Did you take notice? While it doesn't excuse the bug, it does show that if you have a bit of prior knowledge you can easily sidestep it. IMO, finding problems with no known fixes are much more critical than ones which can be fixed. best, Chipp Jon wrote: > I'd say when an IDE simply disappears from the screen when you try to > click on the Files menu; From devin_asay at byu.edu Mon Jun 6 15:24:09 2005 From: devin_asay at byu.edu (Devin Asay) Date: Mon, 06 Jun 2005 13:24:09 -0600 Subject: Apple to Intel--It's true Message-ID: I was in the room when Steve made the announcement, and you could feel the air go out of the room as 3500 developers caught their breath at once. Even after all the rumo(u)rs it was clear that a lot of people were taken by surprise. It's also clear that Apple has put a great deal of thought, work and planning into this transition. As Steve pointed out, Apple knows how to do transitions. The mood warmed up considerably as he demonstrated using OS X on an Intel box, brought of Wolfram research to talk about how they ported Mathematica in just a couple of days, gave every attendee a copy of XCode 2.1, pointed out that developers won't have to maintain two code bases and two compiles, demoed Rosetta, which allows non-Universal code to run with binary translation. I think the mood here at WWDC mirrors the reactions we are seeing on this list: surprise, uncertainty, curiosity, some happiness, some dismay. Will it affect Apple's user base? Who knows. Mac users are intensely loyal, and the transition will be transparent to the end user. If the developer community stays on board, Apple should make the transition okay. The bottom line is if you abandon Mac OS X your choice is ... what? Switch to Windows? LInux? I'm not planning to do either. I'll be interesting in hearing reactions from developers this week. Devin Devin Asay Humanities Technology and Research Support Center Brigham Young University From mwieder at ahsoftware.net Mon Jun 6 15:27:02 2005 From: mwieder at ahsoftware.net (Mark Wieder) Date: Mon, 6 Jun 2005 12:27:02 -0700 Subject: Transitive? In-Reply-To: <20050606175808.370.qmail@web51101.mail.yahoo.com> References: <20050606175808.370.qmail@web51101.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <9513419356.20050606122702@ahsoftware.net> Gordon- Monday, June 6, 2005, 10:58:07 AM, you wrote: GW> More Jurassic Park than Xerox parc. LOL. -- -Mark Wieder mwieder at ahsoftware.net From chipp at chipp.com Mon Jun 6 15:25:50 2005 From: chipp at chipp.com (Chipp Walters) Date: Mon, 06 Jun 2005 14:25:50 -0500 Subject: dump newbie image questiosn In-Reply-To: <42A3A7B2.4000207@sover.net> References: <42A36FBC.7020303@sover.net> <42A39403.1010109@hyperactivesw.com> <42A3A7B2.4000207@sover.net> Message-ID: <42A4A33E.40501@chipp.com> Hi Jon, I, too visited your webiste and found your cool image viewer. I do a lot w/imageData in Rev (ButtonGadget and ImageGadget) and understand what you're doing. Couple of observations: 1) Are you doing this natively in Delphi? Or do you use an external library to do the image manipulation? 2) Do you program in C? If so, you may consider rolling your own external for Rev using the OpenSource ImageMagick libraries. They would be able to do what it is you need in a fraction of a second. Unfortunately, like Flash, Director and other Xtalks, it doesn't have direct support of image gamma, black-point, white-point and other filters. These things are typically best left to externals. Here at Altuit, we've considered building such an external when we get the time:-) best, Chipp From dsc at swcp.com Mon Jun 6 15:26:56 2005 From: dsc at swcp.com (Dar Scott) Date: Mon, 6 Jun 2005 13:26:56 -0600 Subject: two questions (was Re: Uh-oh.... Anybody following WWDC?) In-Reply-To: References: <42A48C99.3090906@fourthworld.com> <599680840.20050606112444@ahsoftware.net> Message-ID: On Jun 6, 2005, at 1:09 PM, Andre Garzia wrote: > Thanks for the tests Dar, that was not my major fear, what I really > fear is that the sales of PPC machines will drop so much out of FUD > that apple will have a hard time... > > I think I am afraid of their profits sinking and things going all like > armagedon... Not to mention all the OS X fans, who, recently recommending OS X on G5 to Mac and Windows friends, have left town. I think you are right. This is where the risk is. This is hard for me. When I recently looked at Windows and Linux and OS X servers, I recommended OS X. However, there are some things we have little control over. And some things we do. Dar -- ********************************************** DSC (Dar Scott Consulting & Dar's Lab) http://www.swcp.com/dsc/ Let's talk about it at RevCon West! ********************************************** From davis.phil at comcast.net Mon Jun 6 15:30:08 2005 From: davis.phil at comcast.net (Phil Davis) Date: Mon, 06 Jun 2005 12:30:08 -0700 Subject: Rev crashes when getting back web pages contents In-Reply-To: <06E8C689-03FD-4B11-B656-FCF1921C2651@sosmartsoftware.com> References: <9b0f5739558e98a7078ec547bf540848@mac.com> <28246857fbf60eefa53720115b33835f@mac.com> <2DCEF3A1-AAB4-4DE8-AB4F-0712FDD56100@lacscentre.co.uk> <06E8C689-03FD-4B11-B656-FCF1921C2651@sosmartsoftware.com> Message-ID: <42A4A440.3060809@comcast.net> In my own [unfinished] work with this kind of thing, I found that Rev struggles with pages that contain Javascript. If I get a URL, remove all the " You dont have to wait anymore for another rev release to do this and rev doesn't have to waste their time on this one either. All in all we gained a lot of time! Time is money, so i hope that each time this function doesn't return false, you will be motivated to visit my paypal for that "if i had a penny each time i crashed runrev because of an image id manipulation"... ;) This script will be quickly incorporated into the xosmedialib for added media management in RunRev via TAOO. Other sub-functions of this will be added like liststackimages(All,,) etc... XOSMediaLib manages images in the TAOO workflow world - it manages among other things image ids, and names for a large library of images which are used across the TAOO framework and templates or any stack opened. It also manages icons and patterns whence you change an image id for example. It's available on MonsieurX.com with the latest release notes in the MonsieurX.com/forums. Enjoy Xavier -- http://monsieurx.com/taoo - just flow with it From kray at sonsothunder.com Wed Jun 22 02:57:36 2005 From: kray at sonsothunder.com (Ken Ray) Date: Wed, 22 Jun 2005 01:57:36 -0500 Subject: OT: RR and FileMaker In-Reply-To: <005f01c575bd$4a9cb5a0$0201000a@ModelMasters> Message-ID: On 6/20/05 12:27 PM, "Bill Moseid" wrote: Bill, Revolution is a general purpose programming environment and does not mimic keystrokes or mouse clicks. That said, you can certainly use AppleScript on Mac to send messages to FileMaker and make it do things, and you may be able to use VBScript to do the same in Windows. If your intention is to manipulate data in a FileMaker database, you might also be able to use the ODBC connector in Rev to manipulate the data in the database. HTH, Ken Ray Sons of Thunder Software Web site: http://www.sonsothunder.com/ Email: kray at sonsothunder.com From JimAultWins at yahoo.com Wed Jun 22 03:20:33 2005 From: JimAultWins at yahoo.com (Jim Ault) Date: Wed, 22 Jun 2005 00:20:33 -0700 Subject: background groups issues In-Reply-To: <20050622051718.71FA9930064@mail.runrev.com> Message-ID: MisterX , Yes, I too had to get used the idea of the brave new world of group anarchy. I once had to reach back to my old HC days where I had an important stack with lots of copies of fields on the card background, not the stack background. An idea for your situation would be to copy the original stack, delete all cards but the one that has the correct layering, etc, then write a script that will make a new card for each in the original, getting and setting all the card-by-card items/fld data/radio settings/x,y,w,h... The result would be a clean daughter stack. Of course you would have to pay attention to custom properties, but the handlers could become a generic plugin or utility stack that could applied to a multitude of targets, using "one to the number of card buttons.." Just some thoughts. It is true that the multiple bgs placed on multiple cards in the same stack leads to confusion. Perhaps there should be a "multiple background enable" chkbox that is off by default and newbies would not get 6 or 7 nested groups on each card they play around with. Hope this helps. Jim Ault Las Vegas On 6/21/05 10:58 PM, "MisterX" wrote: > BG = group with GroupBehavior ON > Grp = group w/o GrpBehavior ON > > in Theory and as RevDocs say: > If a create a stack with a background group and a background menu bar group, > any card i create thereafter gets both background groups. > > But if i created cards in these background stacks - which is the determinant > of the group though? Neither and both as far as i know... > > Change happens all the time so I decided to add a third group to the > background. But it only shows up in the first card where i pasted it. > The new model has new "powers" and less limitations but also less > "user-friendly consistency" in a certain way. > > - i dont want to paste the new group into the main background. I already > have a menugroup that's independent from my "main" background. > > ... (and if you sorted the cards and any card has 2 or 3 > different looks - it's not nice). > > Seems like there should be a simple answer to this problem, but i have a > huge number (read hundreds) of affected stacks now... Also it blocks > completely the possibility of adding "simply" a theme to an existing stack > that has backgrounds. It's not unscriptable - not worth the bugzilla time > (and i dont think i'll get a satisfactory answer or attention-to-the-problem > - this being a minority problem. > > Any comments, ideas are more than welcome... > > > cheers > Xavier > http://monsieurx.com/taoo > _______________________________________________ > use-revolution mailing list > use-revolution at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription > preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution From b.xavier at internet.lu Wed Jun 22 03:37:07 2005 From: b.xavier at internet.lu (MisterX) Date: Wed, 22 Jun 2005 09:37:07 +0200 Subject: background groups issues In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20050622065526.C18A2930065@mail.runrev.com> Jim, Thanks for input! But a rather lengthy procedure... Thanks for reminding me of the exportgroup function in taoo - it copies all objects in a group to another (a group of object = a stack of cards). Since i dont use cps in my data stacks, im home free on this suggestion! However the pain in updating non-in-background groups or dissassociated (shared-groups in a card) remains the problem for any future stack you update - so the lengthy procedure can become frequent but in rare cases i would imagine. Food for thought! cheerios Xavier > -----Original Message----- > From: use-revolution-bounces at lists.runrev.com > [mailto:use-revolution-bounces at lists.runrev.com] On Behalf Of Jim Ault > Sent: Wednesday, June 22, 2005 09:21 > To: x at monsieurx.com, How to use Revolution > Subject: Re: background groups issues > > MisterX , > > Yes, I too had to get used the idea of the brave new world of > group anarchy. > > I once had to reach back to my old HC days where I had an > important stack with lots of copies of fields on the card > background, not the stack background. > > An idea for your situation would be to copy the original > stack, delete all cards but the one that has the correct > layering, etc, then write a script that will make a new card > for each in the original, getting and setting all the > card-by-card items/fld data/radio settings/x,y,w,h... > > The result would be a clean daughter stack. Of course you > would have to pay attention to custom properties, but the > handlers could become a generic plugin or utility stack that > could applied to a multitude of targets, using "one to the > number of card buttons.." > > Just some thoughts. It is true that the multiple bgs placed > on multiple cards in the same stack leads to confusion. > Perhaps there should be a "multiple background enable" chkbox > that is off by default and newbies would not get 6 or 7 > nested groups on each card they play around with. > > Hope this helps. > > Jim Ault > Las Vegas > > On 6/21/05 10:58 PM, "MisterX" wrote: > > > > BG = group with GroupBehavior ON > > Grp = group w/o GrpBehavior ON > > > > in Theory and as RevDocs say: > > If a create a stack with a background group and a > background menu bar > > group, any card i create thereafter gets both background groups. > > > > But if i created cards in these background stacks - which is the > > determinant of the group though? Neither and both as far as > i know... > > > > Change happens all the time so I decided to add a third > group to the > > background. But it only shows up in the first card where i > pasted it. > > > The new model has new "powers" and less limitations but also less > > "user-friendly consistency" in a certain way. > > > > - i dont want to paste the new group into the main background. I > > already have a menugroup that's independent from my "main" > background. > > > > ... (and if you sorted the cards and any card has 2 or 3 different > > looks - it's not nice). > > > > Seems like there should be a simple answer to this problem, > but i have > > a huge number (read hundreds) of affected stacks now... > Also it blocks > > completely the possibility of adding "simply" a theme to an > existing > > stack that has backgrounds. It's not unscriptable - not worth the > > bugzilla time (and i dont think i'll get a satisfactory answer or > > attention-to-the-problem > > - this being a minority problem. > > > > Any comments, ideas are more than welcome... > > > > > > cheers > > Xavier > > http://monsieurx.com/taoo > > _______________________________________________ > > use-revolution mailing list > > use-revolution at lists.runrev.com > > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > > subscription > > preferences: > > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution > > > _______________________________________________ > use-revolution mailing list > use-revolution at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage > your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution > From eric.chatonet at sosmartsoftware.com Wed Jun 22 04:24:28 2005 From: eric.chatonet at sosmartsoftware.com (Eric Chatonet) Date: Wed, 22 Jun 2005 10:24:28 +0200 Subject: [ANN] Correction Patch for Rev 2.6 Answer Dialog Message-ID: <1BC84A4D-A264-46BD-84D4-7F8E2ED2599D@sosmartsoftware.com> Hi everyone, Lately, I followed the thread about the Answer dialog weird behaviour with Rev 2.6. In fact, the dontwrap of the field displaying the prompt is sometimes set (leaved) to false: this depends on the width of the window or the width of the buttons set. So, I wrote a correction patch: Just paste in the message box: go url "http://www.sosmartsoftware.com/downloads/AnswerPatch26.rev" And enjoy :-) cc to Runtime Revolution Support for information. Best Regards from Paris, Eric Chatonet. ---------------------------------------------------------------- So Smart Software For institutions, companies and associations Built-to-order applications: management, multimedia, internet, etc. Windows, Mac OS and Linux... With the French touch Free plugins and tutorials on my website ---------------------------------------------------------------- Web site http://www.sosmartsoftware.com/ Email eric.chatonet at sosmartsoftware.com/ Phone 33 (0)1 43 31 77 62 Mobile 33 (0)6 20 74 50 86 ---------------------------------------------------------------- From nicolas_cueto at yahoo.com Wed Jun 22 04:50:54 2005 From: nicolas_cueto at yahoo.com (Nicolas Cueto) Date: Wed, 22 Jun 2005 17:50:54 +0900 Subject: zoom image effect? References: Message-ID: <003201c57707$80baa840$0b01a8c0@niconiko04zbtb> Hello List, I'm not sure if the zoom-like visual effect I'm after is easily done but, here goes. Basically, when a user enters an image with the mouse, that image will get larger, preferably gradually rather than instantly. And once the user exits the image, it'll return to its original size (again gradually). Also if possible, when an image object happens to be near the edge of the stack, the zoom effect will be cotained within the stack's edges. Of course, the resizing could be done by readjusting the width and height, and the "gradual" effect with a repeat loop. But I've no idea how to script the "within stack boundaries" limitation. (I guess I'm also hoping in part that there already exists a built-in command in Rev for this effect.) As always, thank you in advance. -- Nicolas Cueto From eric.chatonet at sosmartsoftware.com Wed Jun 22 05:01:58 2005 From: eric.chatonet at sosmartsoftware.com (Eric Chatonet) Date: Wed, 22 Jun 2005 11:01:58 +0200 Subject: zoom image effect? In-Reply-To: <003201c57707$80baa840$0b01a8c0@niconiko04zbtb> References: <003201c57707$80baa840$0b01a8c0@niconiko04zbtb> Message-ID: <745C4A0E-7EB9-42BC-ADC3-6A6461C0E483@sosmartsoftware.com> Hi Nicolas, On-the-Fly and not tested but should do the job :-) function MayIZoomOut pImage if the left of img pImage <= 0 then return false if the right of img pImage >= the width of this cd then return false if the top of img pImage <= 0 then return false if the bottom of img pImage >= the height of this cd then return false return true end MayIZoomOut And inside your repeat loop: if MayIZoomOut("My image") then... Best Regards from Paris, Eric Chatonet. Le 22 juin 05 ? 10:50, Nicolas Cueto a ?crit : > Hello List, > > I'm not sure if the zoom-like visual effect I'm after > is easily done but, here goes. > > Basically, when a user enters an image with the mouse, > that image will get larger, preferably gradually rather > than instantly. And once the user exits the image, it'll > return to its original size (again gradually). > > Also if possible, when an image object happens to be > near the edge of the stack, the zoom effect will be > cotained within the stack's edges. > > Of course, the resizing could be done by readjusting the > width and height, and the "gradual" effect with a repeat > loop. But I've no idea how to script the "within stack > boundaries" limitation. > > (I guess I'm also hoping in part that there already exists a > built-in command in Rev for this effect.) > > As always, thank you in advance. ---------------------------------------------------------------- So Smart Software For institutions, companies and associations Built-to-order applications: management, multimedia, internet, etc. Windows, Mac OS and Linux... With the French touch Free plugins and tutorials on my website ---------------------------------------------------------------- Web site http://www.sosmartsoftware.com/ Email eric.chatonet at sosmartsoftware.com/ Phone 33 (0)1 43 31 77 62 Mobile 33 (0)6 20 74 50 86 ---------------------------------------------------------------- From klaus at major-k.de Wed Jun 22 05:04:08 2005 From: klaus at major-k.de (Klaus Major) Date: Wed, 22 Jun 2005 11:04:08 +0200 Subject: Images in Customproperties In-Reply-To: <3d8af415050621215246786665@mail.gmail.com> References: <3d8af415050621205345b0f312@mail.gmail.com> <3d8af415050621215246786665@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <24D19BA6-5FD5-4FD2-80BE-3A9CEFC80321@major-k.de> Hi Glen, > Scott, > > This is more at what I was getting at. I made a simple error in > thinking that the image "tower" when stored as a custom property also > had its custom properties stored...NOT. > > Thanks for the enlightenment. > > Any thoughts on my other question...if I stored an image from my > hard drive > > set the Antennas[Site] of image "map" to URL "binfile:radio.png" > > How can I place this image from my custom property at a later time > onto a card? simply "put" it into any image :-) ... ##create img "my img" on cd y, if necessary put the Antennas[Site] of image "map" of cd x into img "my img" of cd y ... Done :-) Regards Klaus Major klaus at major-k.de http://www.major-k.de From soctt at proherp.com Wed Jun 22 04:59:06 2005 From: soctt at proherp.com (Scott Kane) Date: Wed, 22 Jun 2005 18:59:06 +1000 Subject: New To Rev - Cards And Files? In-Reply-To: <6.2.1.2.1.20050621080826.01ebbd70@pop3.pon.net> Message-ID: <000001c57708$abcf9940$dc43a2ca@sn2379777209> Hi all, First off - thank you very much for all your suggestions. I am exploring each one. :-) One snag I ran into is for the libIPC.rev.sgz file in the Serendipity library. The link is broken and I can't download this file. :-( It seems to be essential (I can't read the doc's without it) and was wondering if anybody could steer me towards a working link for this file. Serendipity looks, at first glance, to be exactly what I'm after and I'm very keen to pursue it further. Again - thank you all for your help. This is a great community! :-) Scott Kane Moderator comp.software.shareware.* Founding Member - AISIP http://www.AISIP.com From klaus at major-k.de Wed Jun 22 05:46:44 2005 From: klaus at major-k.de (Klaus Major) Date: Wed, 22 Jun 2005 11:46:44 +0200 Subject: zoom image effect? In-Reply-To: <003201c57707$80baa840$0b01a8c0@niconiko04zbtb> References: <003201c57707$80baa840$0b01a8c0@niconiko04zbtb> Message-ID: <7B5C0C13-3847-4D9C-8299-D162DBFA35F2@major-k.de> Konichi-wa Nicolas-san, > Hello List, > > I'm not sure if the zoom-like visual effect I'm after > is easily done but, here goes. > > Basically, when a user enters an image with the mouse, > that image will get larger, preferably gradually rather > than instantly. And once the user exits the image, it'll > return to its original size (again gradually). > > Also if possible, when an image object happens to be > near the edge of the stack, the zoom effect will be > cotained within the stack's edges. > > Of course, the resizing could be done by readjusting the > width and height, and the "gradual" effect with a repeat > loop. But I've no idea how to script the "within stack > boundaries" limitation. > > (I guess I'm also hoping in part that there already exists a > built-in command in Rev for this effect.) > > As always, thank you in advance. What about this? You could group the image, so the image will always stay (and be visible only!) within the rect of the group (lockloc!) And you might use a setprop-handler to "trigger" the zoom-in/-out of the image. Like this in the image script: on mouseenter set the must_zoom of me to "in" end mouseenter on mouseleave set the must_zoom of me to "out" end mouseleave setprop must_zoom what if what = "in" then ## do your zoom-in routine here... else ### do your zoom-out routine here end if end setprop Simple, clean and elegant :-) > Nicolas Cueto Regards Klaus Major klaus at major-k.de http://www.major-k.de From alex at tweedly.net Tue Jun 21 06:05:59 2005 From: alex at tweedly.net (Alex Tweedly) Date: Tue, 21 Jun 2005 11:05:59 +0100 Subject: Ann: Simple Spirograph-like toy program. In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <42B7E687.9080604@tweedly.net> John Ridge wrote: >sec >I don't understand the point of "wait 0..." When I comment out the line, the >program runs 300 revolutions in 2300 millisecs on my system (this is an >average of 10 trials, using the default settings as in the stack you >uploaded). With the line back in at "wait 0", it takes 1962 ms on average. >This seems a little odd. > >But the weird thing is that the second, faster version with "wait 0..." >actually runs far more slowly - the millisecs are lying to me! Using a >stopwatch (I know :-)) I reckon it takes about 10 times as long as it >reports - around 19 seconds in real time, while the commented-out version is >running in just about the time that the millisecs report. > >I have looked hard at the code, and at the documentation of "wait". Now my >brain hurts. What am I missing? > > Don't know what's going on for you. I can tell you the observations of timing on my system .... Code Points updates msec wristwatch :-) as downloaded wait 1 ms .... 4622 106 5648 6 seconds seems right modified to wait 0 ms 4622 2 109 less than a second commented out -- .... 4622 2 99 less than a second Is it possible you put in O (the letter) instead of 0 (the digit) ? (shouldn't be - gives me an error - but maybe different settings ???) The point of "wait 0 msec with messages" is to provide an opportunity for other messages to be handled. In this case, the "Stop" button can be pressed and will stop the drawing by unsetting "gKeepDrawing"; without the wait line, processing this message wouldn't happen until after the loop had finished. -- Alex Tweedly http://www.tweedly.net -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.323 / Virus Database: 267.7.8/22 - Release Date: 17/06/2005 From tkuypers at pandora.be Wed Jun 22 06:12:37 2005 From: tkuypers at pandora.be (Ton Kuypers) Date: Wed, 22 Jun 2005 12:12:37 +0200 Subject: Bug with background groups Message-ID: <28B8BAAD-3FF7-4E64-AFB3-DA8398E8BA47@pandora.be> Hi, I'm using RR 2.6 on Tiger. I've created a bunch of fields and labels to give a description to the user on what to put in those fields. Then I grouped all items and checked the "behave like a background" in the property inspector. When I create a new card, all fields, popup menu's etc. are copied to the new card, but the labels are gone... Anyone a workaround for this, besides creating buttons as labels? Many thanks in advance! Warm regards, Ton Kuypers Digital Media Partners bvba Tel. +32 (0)477 / 739 530 Fax +32 (0)14 / 71 03 04 http://www.dmp-int.com From alex at tweedly.net Wed Jun 22 06:21:17 2005 From: alex at tweedly.net (Alex Tweedly) Date: Wed, 22 Jun 2005 11:21:17 +0100 Subject: compileIt for revolution? In-Reply-To: <20050622034955.C8E81930064@mail.runrev.com> References: <20050622034955.C8E81930064@mail.runrev.com> Message-ID: <42B93B9D.7050302@tweedly.net> MisterX wrote: >[ about the need for more speed for some things ....] >Example: The HotKeyN2O stack stores all properties of all >controls in a card when the user opens the card. The props >are all in array form which cannot be stored into another >array (time based array of object changes). So for each >object i have to translate array[key]=data to data. > >This in turn is stored into a time-based array. So if i need >to restore the property (any) for any object and at any time, >it's ultra easy - except that the translation process is so >slow after 10 controls trasnlated that it's USELESS if i dont >write that into a real-compiled external. > > I agree with you about the need for more speed for some applications (and sorry Dan, but I've seen requests for more speed a number of times on this list ... sometimes they can be overcome by creative use of Transcript's features in unusual ways, but I'm not convinced that's always possible, nor that it should be necessary to use non-obvious programming tricks, at the cost of loss of readability and maintainability, when some improvements in native performance would do it better) But in this example, there may be a better way to organize your (Mr. X's) data that would be fast enough. 2 possibilities I see 1. data[key] contains time of change, the new value time of change, the new value etc. then you can directly index the individual property, then find the appropriate line entry (which you'd keep sorted). If you needed to, you could then binary search through the lines for the most recent change before the time desired.. 2. the data is in a time-based array, but as a 'combine'd array-as-list. So you'd simply find the array entry based on time put data[theTime] into myProps split myProps by cr and comma so the value of a property would be myProp[theProp] Not sure which of those would be better - depends on the full set of operations you need to do. -- Alex Tweedly http://www.tweedly.net -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.323 / Virus Database: 267.7.8/22 - Release Date: 17/06/2005 From eric.chatonet at sosmartsoftware.com Wed Jun 22 06:21:52 2005 From: eric.chatonet at sosmartsoftware.com (Eric Chatonet) Date: Wed, 22 Jun 2005 12:21:52 +0200 Subject: Bug with background groups In-Reply-To: <28B8BAAD-3FF7-4E64-AFB3-DA8398E8BA47@pandora.be> References: <28B8BAAD-3FF7-4E64-AFB3-DA8398E8BA47@pandora.be> Message-ID: <96CEAAF7-DAA7-4268-BD9F-7F85AAA04E19@sosmartsoftware.com> Hi Ton, Just set the sharedText property to true for your labels and to false for your fields :-) Le 22 juin 05 ? 12:12, Ton Kuypers a ?crit : > Hi, > > I'm using RR 2.6 on Tiger. > > I've created a bunch of fields and labels to give a description to > the user on what to put in those fields. > Then I grouped all items and checked the "behave like a background" > in the property inspector. > > When I create a new card, all fields, popup menu's etc. are copied > to the new card, but the labels are gone... > Anyone a workaround for this, besides creating buttons as labels? Best Regards from Paris, Eric Chatonet. ---------------------------------------------------------------- So Smart Software For institutions, companies and associations Built-to-order applications: management, multimedia, internet, etc. Windows, Mac OS and Linux... With the French touch Free plugins and tutorials on my website ---------------------------------------------------------------- Web site http://www.sosmartsoftware.com/ Email eric.chatonet at sosmartsoftware.com/ Phone 33 (0)1 43 31 77 62 Mobile 33 (0)6 20 74 50 86 ---------------------------------------------------------------- From tkuypers at pandora.be Wed Jun 22 06:48:24 2005 From: tkuypers at pandora.be (Ton Kuypers) Date: Wed, 22 Jun 2005 12:48:24 +0200 Subject: Bug with background groups In-Reply-To: <96CEAAF7-DAA7-4268-BD9F-7F85AAA04E19@sosmartsoftware.com> References: <28B8BAAD-3FF7-4E64-AFB3-DA8398E8BA47@pandora.be> <96CEAAF7-DAA7-4268-BD9F-7F85AAA04E19@sosmartsoftware.com> Message-ID: <5E2CC99D-3F2E-4F9C-9109-58493324DCEB@pandora.be> :-))) Thanks, that did the job! On 22 Jun 2005, at 12:21, Eric Chatonet wrote: > Hi Ton, > > Just set the sharedText property to true for your labels and to > false for your fields :-) > > Le 22 juin 05 ? 12:12, Ton Kuypers a ?crit : > > >> Hi, >> >> I'm using RR 2.6 on Tiger. >> >> I've created a bunch of fields and labels to give a description to >> the user on what to put in those fields. >> Then I grouped all items and checked the "behave like a >> background" in the property inspector. >> >> When I create a new card, all fields, popup menu's etc. are copied >> to the new card, but the labels are gone... >> Anyone a workaround for this, besides creating buttons as labels? >> > > > Best Regards from Paris, > > Eric Chatonet. > ---------------------------------------------------------------- > So Smart Software > > For institutions, companies and associations > Built-to-order applications: management, multimedia, internet, etc. > Windows, Mac OS and Linux... With the French touch > > Free plugins and tutorials on my website > ---------------------------------------------------------------- > Web site http://www.sosmartsoftware.com/ > Email eric.chatonet at sosmartsoftware.com/ > Phone 33 (0)1 43 31 77 62 > Mobile 33 (0)6 20 74 50 86 > ---------------------------------------------------------------- > > _______________________________________________ > use-revolution mailing list > use-revolution at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution > > From M.Lange at ed.ac.uk Wed Jun 22 07:23:24 2005 From: M.Lange at ed.ac.uk (Marielle Lange) Date: Wed, 22 Jun 2005 12:23:24 +0100 Subject: background groups issues Message-ID: <1119439404.42b94a2ca7627@staffmail.ed.ac.uk> > An idea for your situation would be to copy the original > stack, delete all cards but the one that has the correct > layering, etc, then write a script that will make a new card > for each in the original, getting and setting all the > card-by-card items/fld data/radio settings/x,y,w,h... No need to delete. You only need to make a group of your "common widgets", create a template card on which you copy that group, then create would edit each single card of your stack: delete the "common group" if already exists on a card and copy the "background" group on every card of the stack. Quick and effective (the problem with the use as background property is that it does transfer to new cards, but doesn't always transpose the changes made on the last card on the previous cards -- at least when I use it) My solution to this problem can be found at: http://revolution.lexicall.org/user_contributions/changeStack.rev Different little functions to change the background group of a stack over a set of stacks and substacks, reposition that background automatically, rename objects, replace the icon reference, etc. Essential when you build up multimedia applications with large numbers of cards. (Written in a way that is useful to me... but code that shouldn't be too difficult to understand). Marielle From bill at bluewatermaritime.com Wed Jun 22 07:37:23 2005 From: bill at bluewatermaritime.com (Bill) Date: Wed, 22 Jun 2005 07:37:23 -0400 Subject: Latest version of Revolution ? In-Reply-To: <1DE8CFB0-60E7-424F-B90D-AA7C4BE4235C@danshafer.com> Message-ID: When I choose "check for updates" on my build 108 on mac os 10.3 it says "I must get build number 91). Maybe you are on windows or OS tiger. I can't run Tiger because it destroyed Hypercard. On 6/22/05 12:11 AM, "Dan Shafer" wrote: > Interesting. I don't have those problems at all. > > > On Jun 21, 2005, at 7:13 PM, Kurt Kaufman wrote: > >> >> On Jun 21, 2005, at 7:54 PM, Dan Shafer wrote: >> >> >>> Can't you just use the "Check for Updates..." option under Help menu >>> and find out if you have the latest and greatest? > > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ > Dan Shafer, Revolution Consultant and Author > http://www.shafermedia.com > Get my book, "Revolution: Software at the Speed of Thought" > From RunRev Store > > > > > _______________________________________________ > use-revolution mailing list > use-revolution at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription > preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution > > | | | )_) )_) )_) )___))___))___)\ )____)____)_____)\\ _____|____|____|____\\\__ -------\ /--------- http://www.bluewatermaritime.com ^^^^^ ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ ^^^^ ^^^^ ^^^ ^^ ^^^^ ^^^ 24 hour cell: (787) 378-6190 fax: (787) 809-8426 Blue Water Maritime P.O. Box 91 Puerto Real, PR 00740 From rjb at robelko.com Wed Jun 22 07:53:35 2005 From: rjb at robelko.com (Robert Brenstein) Date: Wed, 22 Jun 2005 13:53:35 +0200 Subject: Latest version of Revolution ? In-Reply-To: <1DE8CFB0-60E7-424F-B90D-AA7C4BE4235C@danshafer.com> References: <20050621235437.B66449301CF@mail.runrev.com> <80c68fff268dcbc0f28494fead049a8a@snet.net> <1DE8CFB0-60E7-424F-B90D-AA7C4BE4235C@danshafer.com> Message-ID: >Interesting. I don't have those problems at all. > > >On Jun 21, 2005, at 7:13 PM, Kurt Kaufman wrote: > >> >>On Jun 21, 2005, at 7:54 PM, Dan Shafer wrote: >> >>>Can't you just use the "Check for Updates..." option under Help menu >>>and find out if you have the latest and greatest? > >~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ >Dan Shafer, Revolution Consultant and Author >http://www.shafermedia.com >Get my book, "Revolution: Software at the Speed of Thought" >From RunRev Store I can confirm that "Check for updates..." still reports build 91 as the newest. Either RR folks forgot to update the central file or something has changed and only the newest version gets the proper build info. Robert From mcdomi at free.fr Wed Jun 22 08:15:01 2005 From: mcdomi at free.fr (Dom) Date: Wed, 22 Jun 2005 14:15:01 +0200 Subject: the := operator (affectation) In-Reply-To: <22094012-37A8-408E-A841-1D5EE78D6630@danshafer.com> Message-ID: <1gyka60.8bj6u61pikzg8M%mcdomi@free.fr> Dan Shafer wrote: > (I always found the whole ==, +=, :=, == syntax mess pretty ugly. I > love the elegance of put 32 into x.) ;-) why not ending lines by a ";" -- but not always, unless the program bugs silently ;-> -- Revolutionario From see3d at writeme.com Wed Jun 22 09:40:05 2005 From: see3d at writeme.com (Dennis Brown) Date: Wed, 22 Jun 2005 09:40:05 -0400 Subject: compileIt for revolution? In-Reply-To: References: <20050622034955.C8E81930064@mail.runrev.com> Message-ID: <386EA08D-07BE-4754-AB4A-3616B73A9E9F@writeme.com> Dan, I also would like to speed up array processing. It kills me that my friend won't move from VB to Rev because when I write the same array processing problem that he uses, VB runs 10+ times faster than Rev. I also have had to jump through hoops trying to figure out ways to make my array processing go faster --it usually requires taking a simple script and making it 5 times as complicated as the way you would do it in VB or RB or any other ordinary language. It is not just for the type of math problems that I am dealing with. As visual effects become more important, being able to quickly process numeric arrays like a pixel image array becomes important. However, I don't think compiling scripts is the answer. I love having the interpreted environment for interactive debug and experimentation. The UI is where all the code and debugging time is spent. I don't want to trade that in for anything. Rev is all about UI, but weak on array speed. The language as it is defined would hardly be faster as a compiled version because of the type-less and stringy nature of the variables. Compiled languages get their effeciency by the programmer telling them up front the data type and therefore the correspondence to specific machine code operators. There is no guessing or mixing of types. The processing of numeric (or fixed length strings) hardly needs any checks at runtime. What I advocate is a cross platform runtime package that is a pure fixed type, fixed operator, math orientated array language. It can be PCode or threaded with very low overhead. Languages with no UI considerations are very easy to create and code for a machine code programmer. I would like to see the basic operators and control structures to work on regular arrays of n dimensions. I am not actually referring to "array" operators, just the ability to apply ordinary operators to one addressable array element at a time with efficient looping structures. That should result in an order of magnitude increase in speed for the stuff that bogs Rev down, and open up Rev as a universal development tool. The key is to have an efficient and elegant way for Rev to interface with such a package. It needs to be able to pass the "program code" and pass array elements, rows, columns, and whole arrays to the coprocessor (really it just needs to be able to pass pointers to the array memory blocks). As long as Rev has this Achilles heel, it will preclude it's use as a "real" programming language in the minds of many. I did make a BZ enhancement request, but I think it could benefit from a discussion on this list. Dennis On Jun 22, 2005, at 1:27 AM, Dan Shafer wrote: > Xavier.... > > I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree about this. > > How in the world would you expect a compiled script or handler -- > if such a thing were possible -- to then be smoothly integrated > into a stand-alone app? > > We needed CompileIt! in HyperCard *far* less for performance than > for code protection and the ability to deliver stuff that didn't > require the player to be around. Neither of those is an issue today > in Revolution. > > As for performance, tuning for such situations has produced > staggering results. I was blown away in Monterey last weekend to > watch a dynamically populated menu that was pulling its contents > from 100 text files appear in under a second. I've never heard much > here in the way of complaints about slow programs written in Rev. > > Dan > > On Jun 21, 2005, at 9:31 PM, MisterX wrote: > > >> Dan, >> >> Creating apps with rev has NOTHING to do with compileIt. >> >> I really would like to speed up some scripts to manipulate >> arrays (where rev has some serious limitations) and the best >> possible way to do that would be to have something like >> CompileIt. >> From ridge11103 at btinternet.com Wed Jun 22 10:10:11 2005 From: ridge11103 at btinternet.com (John Ridge) Date: Wed, 22 Jun 2005 15:10:11 +0100 Subject: Ann: Simple Spirograph-like toy program. In-Reply-To: <42B7E687.9080604@tweedly.net> Message-ID: on 21/6/05 11:05 am, Alex Tweedly wrote : The point of "wait 0 msec with messages" is to provide an opportunity for other messages to be handled. In this case, the "Stop" button can be pressed and will stop the drawing by unsetting "gKeepDrawing"; without the wait line, processing this message wouldn't happen until after the loop had finished. -- Alex Tweedly http://www.tweedly.net ******************************** Thanks, Alex - now at least I understand the "wait 0"! Very neat... And a good example of a problem I seem to get too often with the documentation - it's as if I have to say "OK - now tell me why you told me that". As for my timing problem - a mystery I prefer not to think about. I shall pretend it never happened. -- From gbojsza at gmail.com Wed Jun 22 10:12:31 2005 From: gbojsza at gmail.com (Glen Bojsza) Date: Wed, 22 Jun 2005 10:12:31 -0400 Subject: Copying customPropertySet with associated customKeys Message-ID: <3d8af4150506220712417edd29@mail.gmail.com> Again, I am trying to dig deeper into custom properties. I am trying to store the customPropertySet with associated customKeys and the associated property contents of the keys into another object's custom properties. I have , thanks to Dan and Scott, been able to store an image and the associated customKeys but now I want to do more ... actually all of it. Do you need to create an array of an object's customPropertySet , customKeys and property contents and then store it? Or is there more a direct method? thanks, From gwalias-rev at yahoo.com Wed Jun 22 10:14:03 2005 From: gwalias-rev at yahoo.com (Gordon Webster) Date: Wed, 22 Jun 2005 07:14:03 -0700 (PDT) Subject: compileIt for revolution? In-Reply-To: <386EA08D-07BE-4754-AB4A-3616B73A9E9F@writeme.com> Message-ID: <20050622141403.42708.qmail@web51102.mail.yahoo.com> I would absolutely echo what Dennis has just said. I was initially really impressed with rev and I should say I still am in certain respects - comfort and ease of use, the elegant and intuitive language and stack/card paradigm etc. etc. But I have been unable to get rev to do what I want it to do behind the scenes (i.e. my application logic) without jumping through the kinds of hoops that Dennis describes - effectively negating all the advantages of programming in Transcript that I just outlined. And even when I could get the code working, man it was SLOW. It was discouraging to see Python easily outrun rev for the equivalent code - I mean I love Python and all, but it's hardly the gold standard for speed. I would think that the stack paradigm would neatly allow for the creation of strongly-typed stacks that could be jumped into from the kind of warm and fuzzy typeless stacks that give rev its wonderful flexibility. The compiler could then insist on declarations for all objects within the typed stack and compile it with far greater optimization than is possible for the typeless stacks, perhaps even going as far as native code compilation :-D Imagine what a superb development environment rev could be with these features. Flexible and typeless for all the UI/scripty/fun parts of the app; more draconian but hellishly fast for the down-to-the-metal hardcore byte-crunching parts of the app. Strong typing would probably also make it a lot easier to automate the process of calling externals from Transcript without all those ghastly, clunky C wrappers and crap. There's a dream - a rev scientific application with a beautiful interface rendering OpenGL objects in real time and a typed, Transcript-coded stack running energy minimization on a separate thread in the background. I doubt I'll put my hands in my pockets again and upgrade my expired rev license just to have "deep masks" on my GUIs - I'm not knocking it, it's just not a feature I urgently need right now ... but fast compiled stacks, easy access to externals ... now you're talking ... where's my check book? Best Gordon --- Dennis Brown wrote: > Dan, > > I also would like to speed up array processing. It > kills me that my > friend won't move from VB to Rev because when I > write the same array > processing problem that he uses, VB runs 10+ times > faster than Rev. > I also have had to jump through hoops trying to > figure out ways to > make my array processing go faster --it usually > requires taking a > simple script and making it 5 times as complicated > as the way you > would do it in VB or RB or any other ordinary > language. It is not > just for the type of math problems that I am dealing > with. As visual > effects become more important, being able to quickly > process numeric > arrays like a pixel image array becomes important. > > However, I don't think compiling scripts is the > answer. I love > having the interpreted environment for interactive > debug and > experimentation. The UI is where all the code and > debugging time is > spent. I don't want to trade that in for anything. > Rev is all about > UI, but weak on array speed. The language as it is > defined would > hardly be faster as a compiled version because of > the type-less and > stringy nature of the variables. Compiled languages > get their > effeciency by the programmer telling them up front > the data type and > therefore the correspondence to specific machine > code operators. > There is no guessing or mixing of types. The > processing of numeric > (or fixed length strings) hardly needs any checks at > runtime. > > What I advocate is a cross platform runtime package > that is a pure > fixed type, fixed operator, math orientated array > language. It can > be PCode or threaded with very low overhead. > Languages with no UI > considerations are very easy to create and code for > a machine code > programmer. I would like to see the basic operators > and control > structures to work on regular arrays of n > dimensions. I am not > actually referring to "array" operators, just the > ability to apply > ordinary operators to one addressable array element > at a time with > efficient looping structures. That should result in > an order of > magnitude increase in speed for the stuff that bogs > Rev down, and > open up Rev as a universal development tool. > > The key is to have an efficient and elegant way for > Rev to interface > with such a package. It needs to be able to pass > the "program code" > and pass array elements, rows, columns, and whole > arrays to the > coprocessor (really it just needs to be able to pass > pointers to the > array memory blocks). > > As long as Rev has this Achilles heel, it will > preclude it's use as a > "real" programming language in the minds of many. > > I did make a BZ enhancement request, but I think it > could benefit > from a discussion on this list. > > Dennis > > > On Jun 22, 2005, at 1:27 AM, Dan Shafer wrote: > > > Xavier.... > > > > I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree about > this. > > > > How in the world would you expect a compiled > script or handler -- > > if such a thing were possible -- to then be > smoothly integrated > > into a stand-alone app? > > > > We needed CompileIt! in HyperCard *far* less for > performance than > > for code protection and the ability to deliver > stuff that didn't > > require the player to be around. Neither of those > is an issue today > > in Revolution. > > > > As for performance, tuning for such situations has > produced > > staggering results. I was blown away in Monterey > last weekend to > > watch a dynamically populated menu that was > pulling its contents > > from 100 text files appear in under a second. I've > never heard much > > here in the way of complaints about slow programs > written in Rev. > > > > Dan > > > > On Jun 21, 2005, at 9:31 PM, MisterX wrote: > > > > > >> Dan, > >> > >> Creating apps with rev has NOTHING to do with > compileIt. > >> > >> I really would like to speed up some scripts to > manipulate > >> arrays (where rev has some serious limitations) > and the best > >> possible way to do that would be to have > something like > >> CompileIt. > >> > > _______________________________________________ > use-revolution mailing list > use-revolution at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and > manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution > From webmaster at dreamscapesoftware.com Wed Jun 22 10:18:37 2005 From: webmaster at dreamscapesoftware.com (Derek Bump) Date: Wed, 22 Jun 2005 09:18:37 -0500 Subject: compileIt for revolution? In-Reply-To: <20050622014833.81974.qmail@web60517.mail.yahoo.com> References: <20050622014833.81974.qmail@web60517.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <42B9733D.40801@dreamscapesoftware.com> I have spoke with a few individuals in regards to creating a utility for Revolution that would convert Transcript to C. Unfortunately, I know little of C and the individuals I talked with were not ready to start a project such as what you want. But...it is possible. If one who knows C and could figure out some sort of Transcript wrapper, then it would be possible. There are many freeware and public domain compilers out there, but finding one that successfully compiles DLLs for Revolution is seemingly difficult. I've been trying for a few months now, but with my limited knowledge of C I end up running into errors. I am working on this project, but the *confusing* Externals SDK doesn't help. It's pretty bad when I've used about 10 different compilers (including MS Visual C) and I still can't get the samples to compile properly. But that's a whole different issue. Derek Bump Dreamscape Software _______________________________________________ Compress Photos for the Web with JPEGCompress http://www.dreamscapesoftware.com/ From devin_asay at byu.edu Wed Jun 22 10:35:37 2005 From: devin_asay at byu.edu (Devin Asay) Date: Wed, 22 Jun 2005 08:35:37 -0600 Subject: Recording Sound in Windows? In-Reply-To: <4B680C96-6D6E-4E72-ACA0-DDD9ECD98A3B@byu.edu> References: <4B680C96-6D6E-4E72-ACA0-DDD9ECD98A3B@byu.edu> Message-ID: Sharon, If you have a reproduceable recipe for this I'll help you post it as a bug to Bugzilla. Devin On Jun 21, 2005, at 4:34 PM, Sharon Stamps wrote: > Hello all, > > I went searching the archives to find out if anyone had encountered > the same problem I've had with the "record sound" feature in Rev on > Windows. Each time I go to record, Windows pops up with "Low Disk > Space." In previous posts, I read suggestions to check my disk > space (plenty; 108GB +) and swap space and also my Commit Charge. > Everything looks hunky-dory. I am a Mac user attempting to cross- > platform my stacks :) and so I could easily be missing something. > > No matter what settings I use with "record sound," when I start > recording, I have 108GB free space. While recording, however, I go > immediately go down to 172KB! Throughout the duration of the > recording, the free disk space says 172KB. As soon as the > recording stops, I shoot back up to 108GB. My "Commit Charge" > starts at 316M/2965M and while recording, changes to 328M/2965M. I > don't think that the recording should be causing such a problem! > The stack I am converting is used for ESL oral testing and each > student will be recording about 30 minutes of sound files > simultaneously on different computers (saved to a server). The > current plan for the stack is for it to be built as a standalone > and taken to Hong Kong, so I won't be there to monitor the > computers while the test is being administered. > > Any help here? If I'm stuck with this "bug", is there another > recording possibility? Also, I am interested in knowing which > quickTime compression type would be best for my purposes. Up to > this point, the stack has been used for recording about 10 minutes > of sound files and we put them in "pureVoice" because we have a > decent sized server, but I really need to conserve space with this > new stack. I don't seem to be able to find a compression that > doesn't either sound horrible or take up too much disk space. Any > ideas? > > Thanks in advance! > > Sharon > > > _____________ > Sharon Stamps > English Language Center > Brigham Young University > > _______________________________________________ > use-revolution mailing list > use-revolution at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution > Devin Asay Humanities Technology and Research Support Center Brigham Young University From pevensen at siboneylg.com Wed Jun 22 10:45:51 2005 From: pevensen at siboneylg.com (Peter T. Evensen) Date: Wed, 22 Jun 2005 09:45:51 -0500 Subject: No entry in Window's task bar Message-ID: <6.2.1.2.2.20050622094316.1880bcd0@exchange.slg.com> When I run my standalone, there is no entry for the program in the Windows task bar. Mark Waddingham (I think it was) said this was because my Windows don't have title bars. While this is true (all my windows are graphical in nature), it seems that for a standalone SOMETHING should appear in the task bar. If I bring any other application to the front, I cannot get back to my Revolution standalone. Has anyone else run into this? If so, how did you get around it? I have hidden windows with title bars, but they don't seem to affect things. Should I bugzilla this? It makes it hard to make a multi-media application that plays nice in Windows. Peter T. Evensen http://www.PetersRoadToHealth.com 24-hour recorded info hotline: 1-800-624-7671 From eric.chatonet at sosmartsoftware.com Wed Jun 22 10:52:00 2005 From: eric.chatonet at sosmartsoftware.com (Eric Chatonet) Date: Wed, 22 Jun 2005 16:52:00 +0200 Subject: No entry in Window's task bar In-Reply-To: <6.2.1.2.2.20050622094316.1880bcd0@exchange.slg.com> References: <6.2.1.2.2.20050622094316.1880bcd0@exchange.slg.com> Message-ID: <0D34DE1D-400F-4246-ABBA-80D0F59AAC4C@sosmartsoftware.com> Hi Peter, Normal behaviour at the moment :-) You could try, as a workaround, to keep a visible window with its titlebar but of-screen (-1000,-1000) as a signal for Windows... Le 22 juin 05 ? 16:45, Peter T. Evensen a ?crit : > When I run my standalone, there is no entry for the program in the > Windows task bar. Mark Waddingham (I think it was) said this was > because my Windows don't have title bars. While this is true (all > my windows are graphical in nature), it seems that for a standalone > SOMETHING should appear in the task bar. If I bring any other > application to the front, I cannot get back to my Revolution > standalone. > > Has anyone else run into this? If so, how did you get around it? > I have hidden windows with title bars, but they don't seem to > affect things. > > Should I bugzilla this? It makes it hard to make a multi-media > application that plays nice in Windows. Best Regards from Paris, Eric Chatonet. ---------------------------------------------------------------- So Smart Software For institutions, companies and associations Built-to-order applications: management, multimedia, internet, etc. Windows, Mac OS and Linux... With the French touch Free plugins and tutorials on my website ---------------------------------------------------------------- Web site http://www.sosmartsoftware.com/ Email eric.chatonet at sosmartsoftware.com/ Phone 33 (0)1 43 31 77 62 Mobile 33 (0)6 20 74 50 86 ---------------------------------------------------------------- From jbondy at sover.net Wed Jun 22 10:56:03 2005 From: jbondy at sover.net (Jon) Date: Wed, 22 Jun 2005 10:56:03 -0400 Subject: Principles for User-Interface Design In-Reply-To: <20050622002747.88136.qmail@web40508.mail.yahoo.com> References: <20050622002747.88136.qmail@web40508.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <42B97C03.3000404@sover.net> If you want a real kick in the UI pants, check out the late Jef Raskin's book called The Humane Interface. His ideas are radical enough that they cannot be implemented in most development environments, but they are worth considering. :) Jon Alejandro Tejada wrote: >Hi Developers, > >i found this webpage with an interesting >summary of Principles for designing User >interfaces: > > > >i hope this link will be an useful reference >for developers in this list. :-) > >al > > > > > > >Visit my site: >http://www.geocities.com/capellan2000/ > > > >____________________________________________________ >Yahoo! Sports >Rekindle the Rivalries. Sign up for Fantasy Football >http://football.fantasysports.yahoo.com >_______________________________________________ >use-revolution mailing list >use-revolution at lists.runrev.com >Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: >http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution > > > > From jbondy at sover.net Wed Jun 22 10:59:08 2005 From: jbondy at sover.net (Jon) Date: Wed, 22 Jun 2005 10:59:08 -0400 Subject: the := operator (affectation) In-Reply-To: <20050622014737.2008.qmail@web60523.mail.yahoo.com> References: <20050622014737.2008.qmail@web60523.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <42B97CBC.20409@sover.net> I doubt that it is verbose enough for this crowd :) Jon Eric Engle wrote: >Is there any chance that transcript will incorporate the := operator? >This is the pascal operator of affectation (put value into variable -- variable >:= value) >This operator is available in lingo. > > > >____________________________________________________ >Yahoo! Sports >Rekindle the Rivalries. Sign up for Fantasy Football >http://football.fantasysports.yahoo.com >_______________________________________________ >use-revolution mailing list >use-revolution at lists.runrev.com >Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: >http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution > > > > From b.xavier at internet.lu Wed Jun 22 11:03:14 2005 From: b.xavier at internet.lu (MisterX) Date: Wed, 22 Jun 2005 17:03:14 +0200 Subject: background groups issues In-Reply-To: <1119439404.42b94a2ca7627@staffmail.ed.ac.uk> Message-ID: <20050622142131.EDEB293005B@mail.runrev.com> Marielle, im not sure you're talking about the same thing... You're talking about changing one group's content. Im talking about multiple backgrounds over many cards. And in a pseudo way the place command... Example: create stack, create a bg group 1, create a bg grp 2. Now create cards... No probs, all is replicated. If you go back to cd 1 and create a new bg group then - it's not in the other cards you made prev. - if you create new cards, you have 3 bgs but previous bgs still have 2. Sort the stack by anything, you got a big bg mess ;) hope i got this ok... cheers Xavier > -----Original Message----- > From: use-revolution-bounces at lists.runrev.com > [mailto:use-revolution-bounces at lists.runrev.com] On Behalf Of > Marielle Lange > Sent: Wednesday, June 22, 2005 13:23 > To: use-revolution at lists.runrev.com > Subject: RE: background groups issues > > > An idea for your situation would be to copy the original > stack, delete > > all cards but the one that has the correct layering, etc, > then write a > > script that will make a new card for each in the original, > getting and > > setting all the card-by-card items/fld data/radio > settings/x,y,w,h... > > No need to delete. You only need to make a group of your > "common widgets", create a template card on which you copy > that group, then create would edit each single card of your > stack: delete the "common group" if already exists on a card > and copy the "background" group on every card of the stack. > Quick and effective (the problem with the use as background > property is that it does transfer to new cards, but doesn't > always transpose the changes made on the last card on the > previous cards -- at least when I use it) > > My solution to this problem can be found at: > http://revolution.lexicall.org/user_contributions/changeStack.rev > > Different little functions to change the background group of > a stack over a set of stacks and substacks, reposition that > background automatically, rename objects, replace the icon > reference, etc. Essential when you build up multimedia > applications with large numbers of cards. (Written in a way > that is useful to me... but code that shouldn't be too > difficult to understand). > > Marielle > _______________________________________________ > use-revolution mailing list > use-revolution at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage > your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution > From b.xavier at internet.lu Wed Jun 22 11:03:14 2005 From: b.xavier at internet.lu (MisterX) Date: Wed, 22 Jun 2005 17:03:14 +0200 Subject: compileIt for revolution? In-Reply-To: <42B93B9D.7050302@tweedly.net> Message-ID: <20050622142134.A53F39300E5@mail.runrev.com> Thanks Alex, I think i did start out the way you mentioned and then got into the objectness of the associative array. That may be my problem... Thanks for the heads up! Xavier > -----Original Message----- > From: Alex Tweedly [mailto:alex at tweedly.net] > Sent: Wednesday, June 22, 2005 12:21 > To: x at monsieurx.com; How to use Revolution > Subject: Re: compileIt for revolution? > > MisterX wrote: > > >[ about the need for more speed for some things ....] > >Example: The HotKeyN2O stack stores all properties of all > controls in a > >card when the user opens the card. The props are all in array form > >which cannot be stored into another array (time based array > of object > >changes). So for each object i have to translate array[key]=data to > >data. > > > >This in turn is stored into a time-based array. So if i need > to restore > >the property (any) for any object and at any time, it's ultra easy - > >except that the translation process is so slow after 10 controls > >trasnlated that it's USELESS if i dont write that into a > real-compiled > >external. > > > > > I agree with you about the need for more speed for some > applications (and sorry Dan, but I've seen requests for more > speed a number of times on this list ... sometimes they can > be overcome by creative use of Transcript's features in > unusual ways, but I'm not convinced that's always possible, > nor that it should be necessary to use non-obvious > programming tricks, at the cost of loss of readability and > maintainability, when some improvements in native performance > would do it better) > > But in this example, there may be a better way to organize your (Mr. > X's) data that would be fast enough. 2 possibilities I see > > 1. data[key] contains > time of change, the new value > time of change, the new value > etc. > > then you can directly index the individual property, then > find the appropriate line entry (which you'd keep sorted). If > you needed to, you could then binary search through the lines > for the most recent change before the time desired.. > > 2. the data is in a time-based array, but as a 'combine'd > array-as-list. > So you'd simply > find the array entry based on time put data[theTime] into myProps > split myProps by cr and comma > so the value of a property would be myProp[theProp] > > Not sure which of those would be better - depends on the full > set of operations you need to do. > > -- > Alex Tweedly http://www.tweedly.net > > > > -- > No virus found in this outgoing message. > Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. > Version: 7.0.323 / Virus Database: 267.7.8/22 - Release Date: > 17/06/2005 > From jbondy at sover.net Wed Jun 22 11:01:39 2005 From: jbondy at sover.net (Jon) Date: Wed, 22 Jun 2005 11:01:39 -0400 Subject: the := operator (affectation) In-Reply-To: <22094012-37A8-408E-A841-1D5EE78D6630@danshafer.com> References: <20050622014737.2008.qmail@web60523.mail.yahoo.com> <22094012-37A8-408E-A841-1D5EE78D6630@danshafer.com> Message-ID: <42B97D53.6060002@sover.net> Dan Shafer wrote: > (I always found the whole ==, +=, :=, == syntax mess pretty ugly. I > love the elegance of put 32 into x.) Elegance, verbosity. Poe-tay-toe, poe-tah-toe... From eric.chatonet at sosmartsoftware.com Wed Jun 22 11:04:49 2005 From: eric.chatonet at sosmartsoftware.com (Eric Chatonet) Date: Wed, 22 Jun 2005 17:04:49 +0200 Subject: the := operator (affectation) In-Reply-To: <42B97CBC.20409@sover.net> References: <20050622014737.2008.qmail@web60523.mail.yahoo.com> <42B97CBC.20409@sover.net> Message-ID: <543C193E-F610-4A88-BA0F-A6AA30764993@sosmartsoftware.com> Hi Jon and others, Transcript is designed to be an XTalk language. The XTalk basis is to look like "every day" english language. If it looses this easiness, it's no longer an XTalk ;-) Le 22 juin 05 ? 16:59, Jon a ?crit : > I doubt that it is verbose enough for this crowd > > :) > > Jon > > > Eric Engle wrote: > > >> Is there any chance that transcript will incorporate the := operator? >> This is the pascal operator of affectation (put value into >> variable -- variable >> := value) >> This operator is available in lingo. Best Regards from Paris, Eric Chatonet. ---------------------------------------------------------------- So Smart Software For institutions, companies and associations Built-to-order applications: management, multimedia, internet, etc. Windows, Mac OS and Linux... With the French touch Free plugins and tutorials on my website ---------------------------------------------------------------- Web site http://www.sosmartsoftware.com/ Email eric.chatonet at sosmartsoftware.com/ Phone 33 (0)1 43 31 77 62 Mobile 33 (0)6 20 74 50 86 ---------------------------------------------------------------- From see3d at writeme.com Wed Jun 22 11:07:47 2005 From: see3d at writeme.com (Dennis Brown) Date: Wed, 22 Jun 2005 11:07:47 -0400 Subject: Mac vs PC .csv files Message-ID: <40DB10AC-0859-4455-9C71-EC58D0A3E868@writeme.com> Good day to everyone, I have been ask by a friend on a PC to send him some files in .csv format. When I do, he complains that the returns are missing. I guess I am still a bit unclear on this difference between platforms. As I understand it the Mac uses LF for a delimiter, and the PC uses CR. When I end the lines with return, it does not end up as a CR in the output file. Is there a simple way to specify an end to my lines that is compatible with all platforms for .csv files that are read by programs other than Rev? Thanks, Dennis From jbondy at sover.net Wed Jun 22 11:07:18 2005 From: jbondy at sover.net (Jon) Date: Wed, 22 Jun 2005 11:07:18 -0400 Subject: compileIt for revolution? In-Reply-To: <00ea01c576e3$5c9b9100$0100000a@super> References: <20050622014833.81974.qmail@web60517.mail.yahoo.com> <00ea01c576e3$5c9b9100$0100000a@super> Message-ID: <42B97EA6.7050200@sover.net> I have a feeling that there is "compiled" and then there is "compiled". It is my impression (correct me if I'm wrong) that Rev compiles to pCodes (similar to the old pSystem and to Visual Basic), while Delphi and C++ compile to native code. The difference in performance is between one and three orders of magnitude, depending on what you're doing. It is true that Rev is fast enough to do some amazing things (the Nine Ball with Spin stack is a good example of excellent real-time graphic performance), but it is a real dog at compute intensive tasks (processing each pixel in an image). Jon Pat Trendler wrote: > Do you have Revolution Dreamcard? > > You need Revolution Studio, or better, and you can then make a > standalone compiled app. > > Pat > patrend at bigpond.com > > > ----- Original Message ----- From: "Eric Engle" > To: > Sent: Wednesday, June 22, 2005 11:48 AM > Subject: compileIt for revolution? > > >> Is there any chance that Heizer/Royalsoft (or anyone else for that >> matter) will >> make a script compiler for revolution like compileIt? >> >> __________________________________________________ >> Do You Yahoo!? >> Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around >> http://mail.yahoo.com >> _______________________________________________ >> use-revolution mailing list >> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >> subscription preferences: >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution > > > _______________________________________________ > use-revolution mailing list > use-revolution at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution > > From eric.chatonet at sosmartsoftware.com Wed Jun 22 11:12:30 2005 From: eric.chatonet at sosmartsoftware.com (Eric Chatonet) Date: Wed, 22 Jun 2005 17:12:30 +0200 Subject: Mac vs PC .csv files In-Reply-To: <40DB10AC-0859-4455-9C71-EC58D0A3E868@writeme.com> References: <40DB10AC-0859-4455-9C71-EC58D0A3E868@writeme.com> Message-ID: <4410C3E3-7D0D-43AA-86F0-E8F6B93FAF7A@sosmartsoftware.com> Hi Dennis, You could have a look at the macToIso and isoToMac functions. Le 22 juin 05 ? 17:07, Dennis Brown a ?crit : > I have been ask by a friend on a PC to send him some files in .csv > format. When I do, he complains that the returns are missing. I > guess I am still a bit unclear on this difference between > platforms. As I understand it the Mac uses LF for a delimiter, and > the PC uses CR. When I end the lines with return, it does not end > up as a CR in the output file. Is there a simple way to specify an > end to my lines that is compatible with all platforms for .csv > files that are read by programs other than Rev? Best Regards from Paris, Eric Chatonet. ---------------------------------------------------------------- So Smart Software For institutions, companies and associations Built-to-order applications: management, multimedia, internet, etc. Windows, Mac OS and Linux... With the French touch Free plugins and tutorials on my website ---------------------------------------------------------------- Web site http://www.sosmartsoftware.com/ Email eric.chatonet at sosmartsoftware.com/ Phone 33 (0)1 43 31 77 62 Mobile 33 (0)6 20 74 50 86 ---------------------------------------------------------------- From pevensen at siboneylg.com Wed Jun 22 11:15:32 2005 From: pevensen at siboneylg.com (Peter T. Evensen) Date: Wed, 22 Jun 2005 10:15:32 -0500 Subject: No entry in Window's task bar In-Reply-To: <0D34DE1D-400F-4246-ABBA-80D0F59AAC4C@sosmartsoftware.com> References: <6.2.1.2.2.20050622094316.1880bcd0@exchange.slg.com> <0D34DE1D-400F-4246-ABBA-80D0F59AAC4C@sosmartsoftware.com> Message-ID: <6.2.1.2.2.20050622101459.18809a78@exchange.slg.com> That's an interesting idea.... Hadn't thought of a window off screen. Thanks! At 09:52 AM 6/22/2005, you wrote: >Hi Peter, > >Normal behaviour at the moment :-) >You could try, as a workaround, to keep a visible window with its >titlebar but of-screen (-1000,-1000) as a signal for Windows... > >Le 22 juin 05 ? 16:45, Peter T. Evensen a ?crit : > >>When I run my standalone, there is no entry for the program in the >>Windows task bar. Mark Waddingham (I think it was) said this was >>because my Windows don't have title bars. While this is true (all >>my windows are graphical in nature), it seems that for a standalone >>SOMETHING should appear in the task bar. If I bring any other >>application to the front, I cannot get back to my Revolution >>standalone. >> >>Has anyone else run into this? If so, how did you get around it? >>I have hidden windows with title bars, but they don't seem to >>affect things. >> >>Should I bugzilla this? It makes it hard to make a multi-media >>application that plays nice in Windows. > >Best Regards from Paris, > >Eric Chatonet. >---------------------------------------------------------------- >So Smart Software > >For institutions, companies and associations >Built-to-order applications: management, multimedia, internet, etc. >Windows, Mac OS and Linux... With the French touch > >Free plugins and tutorials on my website >---------------------------------------------------------------- >Web site http://www.sosmartsoftware.com/ >Email eric.chatonet at sosmartsoftware.com/ >Phone 33 (0)1 43 31 77 62 >Mobile 33 (0)6 20 74 50 86 >---------------------------------------------------------------- > >_______________________________________________ >use-revolution mailing list >use-revolution at lists.runrev.com >Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >subscription preferences: >http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution Peter T. Evensen http://www.PetersRoadToHealth.com 24-hour recorded info hotline: 1-800-624-7671 From pevensen at siboneylg.com Wed Jun 22 11:16:47 2005 From: pevensen at siboneylg.com (Peter T. Evensen) Date: Wed, 22 Jun 2005 10:16:47 -0500 Subject: compileIt for revolution? In-Reply-To: <42B97EA6.7050200@sover.net> References: <20050622014833.81974.qmail@web60517.mail.yahoo.com> <00ea01c576e3$5c9b9100$0100000a@super> <42B97EA6.7050200@sover.net> Message-ID: <6.2.1.2.2.20050622101559.188097e8@exchange.slg.com> I believe part of the problem is that Revolution doesn't have numerically index arrays. The arrays are associative arrays whose indexes can be any value (including text) so element access is a lookup, rather than an address computation. At 10:07 AM 6/22/2005, you wrote: >I have a feeling that there is "compiled" and then there is "compiled". >It is my impression (correct me if I'm wrong) that Rev compiles to pCodes >(similar to the old pSystem and to Visual Basic), while Delphi and C++ >compile to native code. The difference in performance is between one and >three orders of magnitude, depending on what you're doing. > >It is true that Rev is fast enough to do some amazing things (the Nine >Ball with Spin stack is a good example of excellent real-time graphic >performance), but it is a real dog at compute intensive tasks (processing >each pixel in an image). > >Jon > > >Pat Trendler wrote: > >>Do you have Revolution Dreamcard? >> >>You need Revolution Studio, or better, and you can then make a standalone >>compiled app. >> >>Pat >>patrend at bigpond.com >> >> >>----- Original Message ----- From: "Eric Engle" >>To: >>Sent: Wednesday, June 22, 2005 11:48 AM >>Subject: compileIt for revolution? >> >> >>>Is there any chance that Heizer/Royalsoft (or anyone else for that >>>matter) will >>>make a script compiler for revolution like compileIt? >>> >>>__________________________________________________ >>>Do You Yahoo!? >>>Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around >>>http://mail.yahoo.com >>>_______________________________________________ >>>use-revolution mailing list >>>use-revolution at lists.runrev.com >>>Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >>>subscription preferences: >>>http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution >> >> >>_______________________________________________ >>use-revolution mailing list >>use-revolution at lists.runrev.com >>Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >>subscription preferences: >>http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution >> >_______________________________________________ >use-revolution mailing list >use-revolution at lists.runrev.com >Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >subscription preferences: >http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution Peter T. Evensen http://www.PetersRoadToHealth.com 24-hour recorded info hotline: 1-800-624-7671 From b.xavier at internet.lu Wed Jun 22 11:18:32 2005 From: b.xavier at internet.lu (MisterX) Date: Wed, 22 Jun 2005 17:18:32 +0200 Subject: compileIt for revolution? In-Reply-To: <386EA08D-07BE-4754-AB4A-3616B73A9E9F@writeme.com> Message-ID: <20050622143650.EFBCF9300D6@mail.runrev.com> then maybe the key is to have better array handlers like filter does for lines for example... is that what you mean? Note that creating an external is just a function call in any script so the script impact is minimal - actually, it does make scritps simpler... And to rebute another of Dan's points whence we HyperCarders used externals to hide code, this can still apply to rev! You can keep an easy GUI that modifiable by the user but keep the real code away. Here's one idea to give Dan an idea of the speed difference: Sorry for the vetusty of the story: I wrote a codec in HyperTalk that took 24 hours processing in HC on a Powerbook 140. Sorry, i wont test it today in rev and what it did is also irrelevant - too involved. Rewritten in C (6 months time longuer than HCs' script), the code took 16 ticks on the same powerbook. 2 years ago i tried translating some Neural network C code. Same problem: 5 hours to run the runRev example as optimized as i could. In C it would take a big 2 seconds! The whole compileIT is not required but an internal module to create ultra-fast native code would be great. Now that would be a programmer's tool worth any eye candy in RunRev. Dan, at work, i hardly ever treat lists that have less than 3X20X2000 objects imbricated in them. I need to run results on those a lot. Believe me that those 15 seconds required sometimes can even be stressing sometimes (usually friday late afternoons ;) cheers Xavier > -----Original Message----- > From: use-revolution-bounces at lists.runrev.com > [mailto:use-revolution-bounces at lists.runrev.com] On Behalf Of > Dennis Brown > Sent: Wednesday, June 22, 2005 15:40 > To: How to use Revolution > Subject: Re: compileIt for revolution? > > Dan, > > I also would like to speed up array processing. It kills me > that my friend won't move from VB to Rev because when I write > the same array > processing problem that he uses, VB runs 10+ times faster than Rev. > I also have had to jump through hoops trying to figure out > ways to make my array processing go faster --it usually > requires taking a simple script and making it 5 times as > complicated as the way you would do it in VB or RB or any > other ordinary language. It is not just for the type of math > problems that I am dealing with. As visual effects become > more important, being able to quickly process numeric arrays > like a pixel image array becomes important. > > However, I don't think compiling scripts is the answer. I > love having the interpreted environment for interactive debug > and experimentation. The UI is where all the code and > debugging time is spent. I don't want to trade that in for > anything. Rev is all about > UI, but weak on array speed. The language as it is defined would > hardly be faster as a compiled version because of the > type-less and stringy nature of the variables. Compiled > languages get their effeciency by the programmer telling them > up front the data type and > therefore the correspondence to specific machine code operators. > There is no guessing or mixing of types. The processing of > numeric (or fixed length strings) hardly needs any checks at runtime. > > What I advocate is a cross platform runtime package that is a > pure fixed type, fixed operator, math orientated array > language. It can be PCode or threaded with very low > overhead. Languages with no UI considerations are very easy > to create and code for a machine code programmer. I would > like to see the basic operators and control structures to > work on regular arrays of n dimensions. I am not actually > referring to "array" operators, just the ability to apply > ordinary operators to one addressable array element at a time > with efficient looping structures. That should result in an > order of magnitude increase in speed for the stuff that bogs > Rev down, and open up Rev as a universal development tool. > > The key is to have an efficient and elegant way for Rev to interface > with such a package. It needs to be able to pass the > "program code" > and pass array elements, rows, columns, and whole arrays to > the coprocessor (really it just needs to be able to pass > pointers to the array memory blocks). > > As long as Rev has this Achilles heel, it will preclude it's > use as a "real" programming language in the minds of many. > > I did make a BZ enhancement request, but I think it could > benefit from a discussion on this list. > > Dennis > > > On Jun 22, 2005, at 1:27 AM, Dan Shafer wrote: > > > Xavier.... > > > > I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree about this. > > > > How in the world would you expect a compiled script or > handler -- if > > such a thing were possible -- to then be smoothly integrated into a > > stand-alone app? > > > > We needed CompileIt! in HyperCard *far* less for > performance than for > > code protection and the ability to deliver stuff that > didn't require > > the player to be around. Neither of those is an issue today in > > Revolution. > > > > As for performance, tuning for such situations has produced > staggering > > results. I was blown away in Monterey last weekend to watch a > > dynamically populated menu that was pulling its contents > from 100 text > > files appear in under a second. I've never heard much here > in the way > > of complaints about slow programs written in Rev. > > > > Dan > > > > On Jun 21, 2005, at 9:31 PM, MisterX wrote: > > > > > >> Dan, > >> > >> Creating apps with rev has NOTHING to do with compileIt. > >> > >> I really would like to speed up some scripts to manipulate arrays > >> (where rev has some serious limitations) and the best > possible way to > >> do that would be to have something like CompileIt. > >> > > _______________________________________________ > use-revolution mailing list > use-revolution at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage > your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution > From jbondy at sover.net Wed Jun 22 11:21:52 2005 From: jbondy at sover.net (Jon) Date: Wed, 22 Jun 2005 11:21:52 -0400 Subject: compileIt for revolution? In-Reply-To: References: <20050622034955.C8E81930064@mail.runrev.com> Message-ID: <42B98210.5060306@sover.net> Dan Shafer wrote: > How in the world would you expect a compiled script or handler -- if > such a thing were possible -- to then be smoothly integrated into a > stand-alone app? Seems trivial to me: that's what traditional object code libraries and DLLs are for. > As for performance, tuning for such situations has produced > staggering results. I was blown away in Monterey last weekend to > watch a dynamically populated menu that was pulling its contents from > 100 text files appear in under a second. I've never heard much here > in the way of complaints about slow programs written in Rev. I guess I should send some image processing code to Dan for optimization! :) Jon From b.xavier at internet.lu Wed Jun 22 11:29:02 2005 From: b.xavier at internet.lu (MisterX) Date: Wed, 22 Jun 2005 17:29:02 +0200 Subject: compileIt for revolution? In-Reply-To: <42B9733D.40801@dreamscapesoftware.com> Message-ID: <20050622144723.8E67E9300B1@mail.runrev.com> Derek, Not to mean that i have all the answers (but i've tried to answer all the questions in this respect before). I know C pretty well but i hate it any time you have to debug anything like pointer increments or loookup tables. Note that C compilers (not hte free ones) usually have great debugging tools (no comparison to rev). The translation to C is EASY! To C++, like Java or Javascript is a nightmare however... Add pointers and you got HELL! It's kind of the same problem with dot notation of object-oriented variables object.property->value or all it's variations If you managed it, it could work but would it be optimized? Most compilers use repeated passes to compile to assembler and then again to machine language (if that's still current for some compilers) but for a program to create a more efficient code than a coder, you can forget it. a program in C is NOT like a program in Rev and vice versa - except for a few "data crunching" routimes. I thought (still haven't stopped) of doing this in Python. It's doable. But i have a vendeta with VBS and Active directory at work to get rid of first. Then i can translate it easier to Python. With the right wrappers we should then have any compiler (python, c, fortran, etc.). But first write the translator translator - eh, language codec ;) What's next, language drivers ? tttt. got those already! These are xtalk-c or c-xtalk compatibility handlers - makes scripts darn easier to translate in the first place - In the xtalk to C example, you just need to #include axtalk.c library in your code. But this is still "vapor" as i hate the c debugging. cheers Xavier > -----Original Message----- > From: use-revolution-bounces at lists.runrev.com > [mailto:use-revolution-bounces at lists.runrev.com] On Behalf Of > Derek Bump > Sent: Wednesday, June 22, 2005 16:19 > To: How to use Revolution > Subject: Re: compileIt for revolution? > > I have spoke with a few individuals in regards to creating a > utility for Revolution that would convert Transcript to C. > Unfortunately, I know little of C and the individuals I > talked with were not ready to start a project such as what you want. > > But...it is possible. > > If one who knows C and could figure out some sort of > Transcript wrapper, then it would be possible. There are > many freeware and public domain compilers out there, but > finding one that successfully compiles DLLs for Revolution is > seemingly difficult. I've been trying for a few months now, > but with my limited knowledge of C I end up running into errors. > > I am working on this project, but the *confusing* Externals > SDK doesn't help. It's pretty bad when I've used about 10 > different compilers (including MS Visual C) and I still can't > get the samples to compile properly. But that's a whole > different issue. > > > Derek Bump > Dreamscape Software > _______________________________________________ > Compress Photos for the Web with JPEGCompress > http://www.dreamscapesoftware.com/ > _______________________________________________ > use-revolution mailing list > use-revolution at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage > your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution > From 3mcgrath at adelphia.net Wed Jun 22 11:28:45 2005 From: 3mcgrath at adelphia.net (Thomas McGrath III) Date: Wed, 22 Jun 2005 11:28:45 -0400 Subject: No entry in Window's task bar In-Reply-To: <6.2.1.2.2.20050622094316.1880bcd0@exchange.slg.com> References: <6.2.1.2.2.20050622094316.1880bcd0@exchange.slg.com> Message-ID: Peter, What I have done for my graphic stacks is to have a main stack that is the startup/splash stack with a title bar with the other windows as substacks of this main stack and then when the splash stack (which is in the task bar) is brought to the front have a script hide it 'and' bring the appropriate substacks to the front. That should do the trick. Tom On Jun 22, 2005, at 10:45 AM, Peter T. Evensen wrote: > When I run my standalone, there is no entry for the program in the > Windows task bar. Mark Waddingham (I think it was) said this was > because my Windows don't have title bars. While this is true (all my > windows are graphical in nature), it seems that for a standalone > SOMETHING should appear in the task bar. If I bring any other > application to the front, I cannot get back to my Revolution > standalone. > > Has anyone else run into this? If so, how did you get around it? I > have hidden windows with title bars, but they don't seem to affect > things. > > Should I bugzilla this? It makes it hard to make a multi-media > application that plays nice in Windows. > > Peter T. Evensen > http://www.PetersRoadToHealth.com > 24-hour recorded info hotline: 1-800-624-7671 > _______________________________________________ > use-revolution mailing list > use-revolution at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution > > Thomas J. McGrath III SCS 1000 Killarney Dr. Pittsburgh, PA 15234 412-885-8541 From pevensen at siboneylg.com Wed Jun 22 11:32:53 2005 From: pevensen at siboneylg.com (Peter T. Evensen) Date: Wed, 22 Jun 2005 10:32:53 -0500 Subject: No entry in Window's task bar In-Reply-To: <6.2.1.2.2.20050622101459.18809a78@exchange.slg.com> References: <6.2.1.2.2.20050622094316.1880bcd0@exchange.slg.com> <0D34DE1D-400F-4246-ABBA-80D0F59AAC4C@sosmartsoftware.com> <6.2.1.2.2.20050622101459.18809a78@exchange.slg.com> Message-ID: <6.2.1.2.2.20050622103200.188064d8@exchange.slg.com> Ok, while this works, is there any message sent to a stack when it is brought to the front? What happens is if I choose the task by entry for my off-screen window, it comes to the front, but the rest of my app stays behind everything else and I have the same problem. At 10:15 AM 6/22/2005, you wrote: >That's an interesting idea.... Hadn't thought of a window off >screen. Thanks! > >At 09:52 AM 6/22/2005, you wrote: >>Hi Peter, >> >>Normal behaviour at the moment :-) >>You could try, as a workaround, to keep a visible window with its >>titlebar but of-screen (-1000,-1000) as a signal for Windows... >> >>Le 22 juin 05 ? 16:45, Peter T. Evensen a ?crit : >> >>>When I run my standalone, there is no entry for the program in the >>>Windows task bar. Mark Waddingham (I think it was) said this was >>>because my Windows don't have title bars. While this is true (all >>>my windows are graphical in nature), it seems that for a standalone >>>SOMETHING should appear in the task bar. If I bring any other >>>application to the front, I cannot get back to my Revolution >>>standalone. >>> >>>Has anyone else run into this? If so, how did you get around it? >>>I have hidden windows with title bars, but they don't seem to >>>affect things. >>> >>>Should I bugzilla this? It makes it hard to make a multi-media >>>application that plays nice in Windows. >> >>Best Regards from Paris, >> >>Eric Chatonet. >>---------------------------------------------------------------- >>So Smart Software >> >>For institutions, companies and associations >>Built-to-order applications: management, multimedia, internet, etc. >>Windows, Mac OS and Linux... With the French touch >> >>Free plugins and tutorials on my website >>---------------------------------------------------------------- >>Web site http://www.sosmartsoftware.com/ >>Email eric.chatonet at sosmartsoftware.com/ >>Phone 33 (0)1 43 31 77 62 >>Mobile 33 (0)6 20 74 50 86 >>---------------------------------------------------------------- >> >>_______________________________________________ >>use-revolution mailing list >>use-revolution at lists.runrev.com >>Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >>subscription preferences: >>http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution > >Peter T. Evensen >http://www.PetersRoadToHealth.com >24-hour recorded info hotline: 1-800-624-7671 >_______________________________________________ >use-revolution mailing list >use-revolution at lists.runrev.com >Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >subscription preferences: >http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution Peter T. Evensen http://www.PetersRoadToHealth.com 24-hour recorded info hotline: 1-800-624-7671 From rev at armbase.com Wed Jun 22 11:35:55 2005 From: rev at armbase.com (rev at armbase.com) Date: Wed, 22 Jun 2005 16:35:55 +0100 Subject: Tab Fields: Ahhhhaaaahhhhh Now I get it. Message-ID: <1119454554.42b9855b0052a@webmail.armbase.com> Hi All. I know one of the major problems with newbies (like I was a while back ) is tab-fields/menus. Now I just revisited this today, making an app for our lab, and I sussed out tab fileds. Now I know this may sound silly to the gurus, but I really cannot beleive how simple it is. Now I have my head round it I feel the need to rewrite everything. :-) Anyway, as a favour to newbies stuck with the concept. Would anyone like a simple intro from a beginners point of view? I can write something for you tomorrow if there are a few interested. All the best Bob From jbondy at sover.net Wed Jun 22 11:36:35 2005 From: jbondy at sover.net (Jon) Date: Wed, 22 Jun 2005 11:36:35 -0400 Subject: No entry in Window's task bar In-Reply-To: <6.2.1.2.2.20050622094316.1880bcd0@exchange.slg.com> References: <6.2.1.2.2.20050622094316.1880bcd0@exchange.slg.com> Message-ID: <42B98583.3050301@sover.net> For what it's worth, I run more than one standalone ("compiled") stack in Windows all of the time, and they all show up in the TaskBar, the same as any other program. :) Peter T. Evensen wrote: > When I run my standalone, there is no entry for the program in the > Windows task bar. Mark Waddingham (I think it was) said this was > because my Windows don't have title bars. While this is true (all my > windows are graphical in nature), it seems that for a standalone > SOMETHING should appear in the task bar. If I bring any other > application to the front, I cannot get back to my Revolution standalone. > > Has anyone else run into this? If so, how did you get around it? I > have hidden windows with title bars, but they don't seem to affect > things. > > Should I bugzilla this? It makes it hard to make a multi-media > application that plays nice in Windows. > > Peter T. Evensen > http://www.PetersRoadToHealth.com > 24-hour recorded info hotline: 1-800-624-7671 > _______________________________________________ > use-revolution mailing list > use-revolution at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution > > From eric.chatonet at sosmartsoftware.com Wed Jun 22 11:37:34 2005 From: eric.chatonet at sosmartsoftware.com (Eric Chatonet) Date: Wed, 22 Jun 2005 17:37:34 +0200 Subject: No entry in Window's task bar In-Reply-To: <6.2.1.2.2.20050622103200.188064d8@exchange.slg.com> References: <6.2.1.2.2.20050622094316.1880bcd0@exchange.slg.com> <0D34DE1D-400F-4246-ABBA-80D0F59AAC4C@sosmartsoftware.com> <6.2.1.2.2.20050622101459.18809a78@exchange.slg.com> <6.2.1.2.2.20050622103200.188064d8@exchange.slg.com> Message-ID: Hi Peter, The unIconifyStack message might help you: Trap this message in your "visible but off screen" window and go to the stacks you want :-) Did not test it but should work... Le 22 juin 05 ? 17:32, Peter T. Evensen a ?crit : > Ok, while this works, is there any message sent to a stack when it > is brought to the front? What happens is if I choose the task by > entry for my off-screen window, it comes to the front, but the rest > of my app stays behind everything else and I have the same problem. Best Regards from Paris, Eric Chatonet. ---------------------------------------------------------------- So Smart Software For institutions, companies and associations Built-to-order applications: management, multimedia, internet, etc. Windows, Mac OS and Linux... With the French touch Free plugins and tutorials on my website ---------------------------------------------------------------- Web site http://www.sosmartsoftware.com/ Email eric.chatonet at sosmartsoftware.com/ Phone 33 (0)1 43 31 77 62 Mobile 33 (0)6 20 74 50 86 ---------------------------------------------------------------- From 3mcgrath at adelphia.net Wed Jun 22 11:37:31 2005 From: 3mcgrath at adelphia.net (Thomas McGrath III) Date: Wed, 22 Jun 2005 11:37:31 -0400 Subject: No entry in Window's task bar In-Reply-To: <6.2.1.2.2.20050622103200.188064d8@exchange.slg.com> References: <6.2.1.2.2.20050622094316.1880bcd0@exchange.slg.com> <0D34DE1D-400F-4246-ABBA-80D0F59AAC4C@sosmartsoftware.com> <6.2.1.2.2.20050622101459.18809a78@exchange.slg.com> <6.2.1.2.2.20050622103200.188064d8@exchange.slg.com> Message-ID: unIconifyStack --Sent when a stack is un-minimized. on unIconifyStack -- in stack script put return & the short name of me after field "List" \ of stack "Open Windows List" end unIconifyStack iconifyStack --Sent to the current card when a stack is minimized. on iconifyStack -- hide auxiliary window when the stack is iconified hide stack "Go Back Palette" end iconifyStack Specifies whether a stack window is minimized. set the iconic of stack to {true | false} set the iconic of this stack to true HTH TOM On Jun 22, 2005, at 11:32 AM, Peter T. Evensen wrote: > Ok, while this works, is there any message sent to a stack when it is > brought to the front? What happens is if I choose the task by entry > for my off-screen window, it comes to the front, but the rest of my > app stays behind everything else and I have the same problem. > > At 10:15 AM 6/22/2005, you wrote: >> That's an interesting idea.... Hadn't thought of a window off >> screen. Thanks! >> >> At 09:52 AM 6/22/2005, you wrote: >>> Hi Peter, >>> >>> Normal behaviour at the moment :-) >>> You could try, as a workaround, to keep a visible window with its >>> titlebar but of-screen (-1000,-1000) as a signal for Windows... >>> >>> Le 22 juin 05 ? 16:45, Peter T. Evensen a ?crit : >>> >>>> When I run my standalone, there is no entry for the program in the >>>> Windows task bar. Mark Waddingham (I think it was) said this was >>>> because my Windows don't have title bars. While this is true (all >>>> my windows are graphical in nature), it seems that for a standalone >>>> SOMETHING should appear in the task bar. If I bring any other >>>> application to the front, I cannot get back to my Revolution >>>> standalone. >>>> >>>> Has anyone else run into this? If so, how did you get around it? >>>> I have hidden windows with title bars, but they don't seem to >>>> affect things. >>>> >>>> Should I bugzilla this? It makes it hard to make a multi-media >>>> application that plays nice in Windows. >>> >>> Best Regards from Paris, >>> >>> Eric Chatonet. >>> ---------------------------------------------------------------- >>> So Smart Software >>> >>> For institutions, companies and associations >>> Built-to-order applications: management, multimedia, internet, etc. >>> Windows, Mac OS and Linux... With the French touch >>> >>> Free plugins and tutorials on my website >>> ---------------------------------------------------------------- >>> Web site http://www.sosmartsoftware.com/ >>> Email eric.chatonet at sosmartsoftware.com/ >>> Phone 33 (0)1 43 31 77 62 >>> Mobile 33 (0)6 20 74 50 86 >>> ---------------------------------------------------------------- >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> use-revolution mailing list >>> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com >>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >>> subscription preferences: >>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution >> >> Peter T. Evensen >> http://www.PetersRoadToHealth.com >> 24-hour recorded info hotline: 1-800-624-7671 >> _______________________________________________ >> use-revolution mailing list >> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >> subscription preferences: >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution > > Peter T. Evensen > http://www.PetersRoadToHealth.com > 24-hour recorded info hotline: 1-800-624-7671 > _______________________________________________ > use-revolution mailing list > use-revolution at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution > > Thomas J. McGrath III SCS 1000 Killarney Dr. Pittsburgh, PA 15234 412-885-8541 From jbondy at sover.net Wed Jun 22 11:39:04 2005 From: jbondy at sover.net (Jon) Date: Wed, 22 Jun 2005 11:39:04 -0400 Subject: Mac vs PC .csv files In-Reply-To: <40DB10AC-0859-4455-9C71-EC58D0A3E868@writeme.com> References: <40DB10AC-0859-4455-9C71-EC58D0A3E868@writeme.com> Message-ID: <42B98618.3090000@sover.net> The Mac uses < LF>, the PC uses pairs... Dennis Brown wrote: > Good day to everyone, > > I have been ask by a friend on a PC to send him some files in .csv > format. When I do, he complains that the returns are missing. I > guess I am still a bit unclear on this difference between platforms. > As I understand it the Mac uses LF for a delimiter, and the PC uses > CR. When I end the lines with return, it does not end up as a CR in > the output file. Is there a simple way to specify an end to my lines > that is compatible with all platforms for .csv files that are read by > programs other than Rev? > > Thanks, > Dennis > _______________________________________________ > use-revolution mailing list > use-revolution at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution > > From jbondy at sover.net Wed Jun 22 11:34:31 2005 From: jbondy at sover.net (Jon) Date: Wed, 22 Jun 2005 11:34:31 -0400 Subject: compileIt for revolution? In-Reply-To: <20050622141403.42708.qmail@web51102.mail.yahoo.com> References: <20050622141403.42708.qmail@web51102.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <42B98507.4030700@sover.net> Total agreement... Gordon Webster wrote: >I would absolutely echo what Dennis has just said. I >was initially really impressed with rev and I should >say I still am in certain respects - comfort and ease >of use, the elegant and intuitive language and >stack/card paradigm etc. etc. > >But I have been unable to get rev to do what I want it >to do behind the scenes (i.e. my application logic) >without jumping through the kinds of hoops that Dennis >describes - effectively negating all the advantages of >programming in Transcript that I just outlined. > >And even when I could get the code working, man it was >SLOW. It was discouraging to see Python easily outrun >rev for the equivalent code - I mean I love Python and >all, but it's hardly the gold standard for speed. > > > > > From gbojsza at gmail.com Wed Jun 22 11:41:21 2005 From: gbojsza at gmail.com (Glen Bojsza) Date: Wed, 22 Jun 2005 11:41:21 -0400 Subject: compileIt for revolution? In-Reply-To: <20050622144723.8E67E9300B1@mail.runrev.com> References: <42B9733D.40801@dreamscapesoftware.com> <20050622144723.8E67E9300B1@mail.runrev.com> Message-ID: <3d8af41505062208411114c395@mail.gmail.com> Well, from what I see here is a business opportunity. If everyone that is interested in achieving this (and willing to pay). Then I would suggest a group should be formed andcreate a well defined set a specifications. I am sure that Chipp at Altuit or someone else would be able to produce the much desired solution but for a price. This would be the quickest way of getting exactly what is being asked for in the shortest period of time. I would be glad to coordinate (off the list ) creating the product specifications and then putting it out to bid. ...any takers? Please contact me off the list. regards, Glen On 6/22/05, MisterX wrote: > Derek, > > Not to mean that i have all the answers (but i've tried to answer all the > questions in this respect before). I know C pretty well but i hate it any > time you have to debug anything like pointer increments or loookup tables. > Note that C compilers (not hte free ones) usually have great debugging tools > (no comparison to rev). > > The translation to C is EASY! To C++, like Java or Javascript is a nightmare > however... Add pointers and you got HELL! It's kind of the same problem with > dot notation of object-oriented variables object.property->value or all it's > variations > > If you managed it, it could work but would it be optimized? Most compilers > use repeated passes to compile to assembler and then again to machine > language (if that's still current for some compilers) but for a program to > create a more efficient code than a coder, you can forget it. > > a program in C is NOT like a program in Rev and vice versa - except for a > few "data crunching" routimes. > > I thought (still haven't stopped) of doing this in Python. It's doable. But > i have a vendeta with VBS and Active directory at work to get rid of first. > Then i can translate it easier to Python. With the right wrappers we should > then have any compiler (python, c, fortran, etc.). > > But first write the translator translator - eh, language codec ;) > What's next, language drivers ? tttt. got those already! These are xtalk-c > or c-xtalk compatibility handlers - makes scripts darn easier to translate > in the first place - In the xtalk to C example, you just need to #include > axtalk.c library in your code. But this is still "vapor" as i hate the c > debugging. > > cheers > Xavier > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: use-revolution-bounces at lists.runrev.com > > [mailto:use-revolution-bounces at lists.runrev.com] On Behalf Of > > Derek Bump > > Sent: Wednesday, June 22, 2005 16:19 > > To: How to use Revolution > > Subject: Re: compileIt for revolution? > > > > I have spoke with a few individuals in regards to creating a > > utility for Revolution that would convert Transcript to C. > > Unfortunately, I know little of C and the individuals I > > talked with were not ready to start a project such as what you want. > > > > But...it is possible. > > > > If one who knows C and could figure out some sort of > > Transcript wrapper, then it would be possible. There are > > many freeware and public domain compilers out there, but > > finding one that successfully compiles DLLs for Revolution is > > seemingly difficult. I've been trying for a few months now, > > but with my limited knowledge of C I end up running into errors. > > > > I am working on this project, but the *confusing* Externals > > SDK doesn't help. It's pretty bad when I've used about 10 > > different compilers (including MS Visual C) and I still can't > > get the samples to compile properly. But that's a whole > > different issue. > > > > > > Derek Bump > > Dreamscape Software > > _______________________________________________ > > Compress Photos for the Web with JPEGCompress > > http://www.dreamscapesoftware.com/ > > _______________________________________________ > > use-revolution mailing list > > use-revolution at lists.runrev.com > > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage > > your subscription preferences: > > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution > > > > _______________________________________________ > use-revolution mailing list > use-revolution at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution > From pevensen at siboneylg.com Wed Jun 22 11:42:02 2005 From: pevensen at siboneylg.com (Peter T. Evensen) Date: Wed, 22 Jun 2005 10:42:02 -0500 Subject: No entry in Window's task bar In-Reply-To: References: <6.2.1.2.2.20050622094316.1880bcd0@exchange.slg.com> <0D34DE1D-400F-4246-ABBA-80D0F59AAC4C@sosmartsoftware.com> <6.2.1.2.2.20050622101459.18809a78@exchange.slg.com> <6.2.1.2.2.20050622103200.188064d8@exchange.slg.com> Message-ID: <6.2.1.2.2.20050622104146.18805a98@exchange.slg.com> I just found that. is uniconifyStack the same as resumeStack? Thanks! At 10:37 AM 6/22/2005, you wrote: >Hi Peter, > >The unIconifyStack message might help you: >Trap this message in your "visible but off screen" window and go to >the stacks you want :-) >Did not test it but should work... > >Le 22 juin 05 ? 17:32, Peter T. Evensen a ?crit : > >>Ok, while this works, is there any message sent to a stack when it >>is brought to the front? What happens is if I choose the task by >>entry for my off-screen window, it comes to the front, but the rest >>of my app stays behind everything else and I have the same problem. > > >Best Regards from Paris, > >Eric Chatonet. >---------------------------------------------------------------- >So Smart Software > >For institutions, companies and associations >Built-to-order applications: management, multimedia, internet, etc. >Windows, Mac OS and Linux... With the French touch > >Free plugins and tutorials on my website >---------------------------------------------------------------- >Web site http://www.sosmartsoftware.com/ >Email eric.chatonet at sosmartsoftware.com/ >Phone 33 (0)1 43 31 77 62 >Mobile 33 (0)6 20 74 50 86 >---------------------------------------------------------------- > >_______________________________________________ >use-revolution mailing list >use-revolution at lists.runrev.com >Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >subscription preferences: >http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution Peter T. Evensen http://www.PetersRoadToHealth.com 24-hour recorded info hotline: 1-800-624-7671 From pevensen at siboneylg.com Wed Jun 22 11:43:07 2005 From: pevensen at siboneylg.com (Peter T. Evensen) Date: Wed, 22 Jun 2005 10:43:07 -0500 Subject: No entry in Window's task bar In-Reply-To: <42B98583.3050301@sover.net> References: <6.2.1.2.2.20050622094316.1880bcd0@exchange.slg.com> <42B98583.3050301@sover.net> Message-ID: <6.2.1.2.2.20050622104206.18805470@exchange.slg.com> Do your windows have title bars? If so, that is why. Mine do not, because they are completely graphical windows, so they don't appear. At 10:36 AM 6/22/2005, you wrote: >For what it's worth, I run more than one standalone ("compiled") stack in >Windows all of the time, and they all show up in the TaskBar, the same as >any other program. > >:) > > >Peter T. Evensen wrote: > >>When I run my standalone, there is no entry for the program in the >>Windows task bar. Mark Waddingham (I think it was) said this was because >>my Windows don't have title bars. While this is true (all my windows are >>graphical in nature), it seems that for a standalone SOMETHING should >>appear in the task bar. If I bring any other application to the front, I >>cannot get back to my Revolution standalone. >> >>Has anyone else run into this? If so, how did you get around it? I have >>hidden windows with title bars, but they don't seem to affect things. >> >>Should I bugzilla this? It makes it hard to make a multi-media >>application that plays nice in Windows. >> >>Peter T. Evensen >>http://www.PetersRoadToHealth.com >>24-hour recorded info hotline: 1-800-624-7671 >>_______________________________________________ >>use-revolution mailing list >>use-revolution at lists.runrev.com >>Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >>subscription preferences: >>http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution >> >_______________________________________________ >use-revolution mailing list >use-revolution at lists.runrev.com >Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >subscription preferences: >http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution Peter T. Evensen http://www.PetersRoadToHealth.com 24-hour recorded info hotline: 1-800-624-7671 From scott at tactilemedia.com Wed Jun 22 11:44:15 2005 From: scott at tactilemedia.com (Scott Rossi) Date: Wed, 22 Jun 2005 08:44:15 -0700 Subject: No entry in Window's task bar In-Reply-To: <6.2.1.2.2.20050622103200.188064d8@exchange.slg.com> Message-ID: Recently, Peter T. Evensen wrote: > is there any message sent to a stack when it is brought to the front? See the resume and resumeStack messages. Regards, Scott Rossi Creative Director Tactile Media, Multimedia & Design ----- E: scott at tactilemedia.com W: http://www.tactilemedia.com From kray at sonsothunder.com Wed Jun 22 11:47:58 2005 From: kray at sonsothunder.com (Ken Ray) Date: Wed, 22 Jun 2005 10:47:58 -0500 Subject: Copying customPropertySet with associated customKeys In-Reply-To: <3d8af4150506220712417edd29@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: On 6/22/05 9:12 AM, "Glen Bojsza" wrote: > Again, I am trying to dig deeper into custom properties. > > I am trying to store the customPropertySet with associated customKeys > and the associated property contents of the keys into another object's > custom properties. > > I have , thanks to Dan and Scott, been able to store an image and the > associated customKeys but now I want to do more ... actually all of > it. > > Do you need to create an array of an object's customPropertySet , > customKeys and property contents and then store it? Or is there more > a direct method? Glen, here's what I use - pass "all" for pSetName if you want all the sets copied: on stsCopyCPSet pSourceObj,pDestObj,pSetName if pSetName = "" then put "all" into pSetName if pSetName = "all" then put the customPropertySets of pSourceObj into tSets set the customPropertySets of pDestObj to tSets else put the customPropertySets of pDestObj into tSets if tSets = "" then put pSetName into tSets else put tSets & cr & pSetName into tSets set the customPropertySets of pDestObj to tSets end if repeat for each line tSet in tSets if pSetName <> "all" and tSet <> pSetName then next repeat set the customPropertySet of pSourceObj to tSet set the customPropertySet of pDestObj to tSet set the customKeys of pDestObj to the customKeys of pSourceObj put the customKeys of pSourceObj into tKeys repeat for each line tKey in tKeys do "set the" && tSet & "[" & q(tKey) & "] of" && pDestObj && "to the" && tSet & "[" & q(tKey) & "] of" && pSourceObj end repeat end repeat set the customPropertySet of pSourceObj to "" set the customPropertySet of pDestObj to "" end stsCopyCPSet HTH, Ken Ray Sons of Thunder Software Web site: http://www.sonsothunder.com/ Email: kray at sonsothunder.com From gbojsza at gmail.com Wed Jun 22 11:53:30 2005 From: gbojsza at gmail.com (Glen Bojsza) Date: Wed, 22 Jun 2005 11:53:30 -0400 Subject: Copying customPropertySet with associated customKeys In-Reply-To: References: <3d8af4150506220712417edd29@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <3d8af415050622085345049460@mail.gmail.com> Brilliant Ray, this helps pull it all together. I hope others will find this as useful... thanks, On 6/22/05, Ken Ray wrote: > On 6/22/05 9:12 AM, "Glen Bojsza" wrote: > > > Again, I am trying to dig deeper into custom properties. > > > > I am trying to store the customPropertySet with associated customKeys > > and the associated property contents of the keys into another object's > > custom properties. > > > > I have , thanks to Dan and Scott, been able to store an image and the > > associated customKeys but now I want to do more ... actually all of > > it. > > > > Do you need to create an array of an object's customPropertySet , > > customKeys and property contents and then store it? Or is there more > > a direct method? > > Glen, here's what I use - pass "all" for pSetName if you want all the sets > copied: > > on stsCopyCPSet pSourceObj,pDestObj,pSetName > if pSetName = "" then put "all" into pSetName > if pSetName = "all" then > put the customPropertySets of pSourceObj into tSets > set the customPropertySets of pDestObj to tSets > else > put the customPropertySets of pDestObj into tSets > if tSets = "" then put pSetName into tSets > else put tSets & cr & pSetName into tSets > set the customPropertySets of pDestObj to tSets > end if > repeat for each line tSet in tSets > if pSetName <> "all" and tSet <> pSetName then next repeat > set the customPropertySet of pSourceObj to tSet > set the customPropertySet of pDestObj to tSet > set the customKeys of pDestObj to the customKeys of pSourceObj > put the customKeys of pSourceObj into tKeys > repeat for each line tKey in tKeys > do "set the" && tSet & "[" & q(tKey) & "] of" && pDestObj && "to the" > && tSet & "[" & q(tKey) & "] of" && pSourceObj > end repeat > end repeat > set the customPropertySet of pSourceObj to "" > set the customPropertySet of pDestObj to "" > end stsCopyCPSet > > HTH, > > Ken Ray > Sons of Thunder Software > Web site: http://www.sonsothunder.com/ > Email: kray at sonsothunder.com > > _______________________________________________ > use-revolution mailing list > use-revolution at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution > From pevensen at siboneylg.com Wed Jun 22 11:56:34 2005 From: pevensen at siboneylg.com (Peter T. Evensen) Date: Wed, 22 Jun 2005 10:56:34 -0500 Subject: No entry in Window's task bar In-Reply-To: References: <6.2.1.2.2.20050622094316.1880bcd0@exchange.slg.com> <0D34DE1D-400F-4246-ABBA-80D0F59AAC4C@sosmartsoftware.com> <6.2.1.2.2.20050622101459.18809a78@exchange.slg.com> <6.2.1.2.2.20050622103200.188064d8@exchange.slg.com> Message-ID: <6.2.1.2.2.20050622105603.18969a10@exchange.slg.com> It seems resumeStack and/or unIconifyStack is not always sent. It seem to be sent every other time. Maybe a bug? At 10:37 AM 6/22/2005, you wrote: >Hi Peter, > >The unIconifyStack message might help you: >Trap this message in your "visible but off screen" window and go to >the stacks you want :-) >Did not test it but should work... > >Le 22 juin 05 ? 17:32, Peter T. Evensen a ?crit : > >>Ok, while this works, is there any message sent to a stack when it >>is brought to the front? What happens is if I choose the task by >>entry for my off-screen window, it comes to the front, but the rest >>of my app stays behind everything else and I have the same problem. > > >Best Regards from Paris, > >Eric Chatonet. >---------------------------------------------------------------- >So Smart Software > >For institutions, companies and associations >Built-to-order applications: management, multimedia, internet, etc. >Windows, Mac OS and Linux... With the French touch > >Free plugins and tutorials on my website >---------------------------------------------------------------- >Web site http://www.sosmartsoftware.com/ >Email eric.chatonet at sosmartsoftware.com/ >Phone 33 (0)1 43 31 77 62 >Mobile 33 (0)6 20 74 50 86 >---------------------------------------------------------------- > >_______________________________________________ >use-revolution mailing list >use-revolution at lists.runrev.com >Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >subscription preferences: >http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution Peter T. Evensen http://www.PetersRoadToHealth.com 24-hour recorded info hotline: 1-800-624-7671 From revolution at derbrill.de Wed Jun 22 12:05:47 2005 From: revolution at derbrill.de (Malte Brill) Date: Wed, 22 Jun 2005 18:05:47 +0200 Subject: the := operator (affectation) Message-ID: <7F19C0E1-E337-11D9-9924-0030659A795C@derbrill.de> Jon wrote: >I doubt that it is verbose enough for this crowd I?m sure I?ve got some medication left... Cheers, Malte From jhurley at infostations.com Wed Jun 22 12:07:16 2005 From: jhurley at infostations.com (Jim Hurley) Date: Wed, 22 Jun 2005 09:07:16 -0700 Subject: ANN Daily Crytoquote In-Reply-To: <20050622142438.F16569300EB@mail.runrev.com> References: <20050622142438.F16569300EB@mail.runrev.com> Message-ID: This is for those of you programmers with time on your hands. :-) I am still trying to catch up after our magnificent Run Rev conference. Some time ago I change my newspaper subscription from the San Francisco Chronicle to the NYT. The Times is a a great paper but it wouldn't stoop to something so frivolous as a cryptogram puzzle. The daily crytogram is in part an addiction and in part a continuing test for the threat of senility. So, without the Chronicle, I decided to rolled my own. (This is what I like about Rev. It is not just a tool; it is a entire tool box.) The stack downloads daily quotes (usually 4 in number) from http://www.quotationspage.com/. The stack will encrypt these quotes and display them for your crypto-pleasure. They are a little intimidating at first. But there is a mistake-proof mode for beginners; it will disallow any incorrect substitution. To decode look for one letter words, short words (of course), and words containing double letters--the double letters are either E or O or the letters on either side of the pair are good candidates for vowels. Etc. You will develop your own strategy. Also included is a substack as a crutch. It is a decoding utility. You type in "H*11***22" which signifies that the first letter is "H" , the second letter is unknown, the third and fourth letters will be the same letter, as are the eighth and ninth. Letter for known letters, numerals for like letters, and * for unknown letters. The decoder will reveal "Happiness" as a possibility in this case. The big problem with the decoder is the size of the dictionary (61,000 entries)--much too big. Many of the words you will not recognize. Anyone know of a more reasonable dictionary? Because of the dictionary, the file is large, about 900 K. (Thanks to Chipp's AltClean, I save over 30% on the crytoquote stack.) To try it, type into message box: go url "http://home.infostations.net/jhurley/DailyCryptoquote.rev" you will need to wait a bit if you are on a 56K modem. Or you will find it on my web site: http://home.infostations.net/jhurley/ DKKF UAMN (Good luck). Jim From capellan2000 at yahoo.com Wed Jun 22 12:14:58 2005 From: capellan2000 at yahoo.com (Alejandro Tejada) Date: Wed, 22 Jun 2005 09:14:58 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Principles for User-Interface Design In-Reply-To: <20050622142438.F16569300EB@mail.runrev.com> Message-ID: <20050622161458.45272.qmail@web40524.mail.yahoo.com> on Wed, 22 Jun 2005 Jon wrote: > If you want a real kick in the UI pants, check out > the late Jef Raskin's > book called The Humane Interface. His ideas are > radical enough that > they cannot be implemented in most development > environments, but they > are worth considering. Hi John, Thanks for the pointer to the book of the late Jeff Raskin. Look John, in their website, they write about the many difficulties of implementing their software in multiple platforms... because the differences in keyboard response: Very enlightening! al Visit my site: http://www.geocities.com/capellan2000/ ____________________________________________________ Yahoo! Sports Rekindle the Rivalries. Sign up for Fantasy Football http://football.fantasysports.yahoo.com From kray at sonsothunder.com Wed Jun 22 12:16:21 2005 From: kray at sonsothunder.com (Ken Ray) Date: Wed, 22 Jun 2005 11:16:21 -0500 Subject: Mac vs PC .csv files In-Reply-To: <40DB10AC-0859-4455-9C71-EC58D0A3E868@writeme.com> Message-ID: On 6/22/05 10:07 AM, "Dennis Brown" wrote: > Good day to everyone, > > I have been ask by a friend on a PC to send him some files in .csv > format. When I do, he complains that the returns are missing. I > guess I am still a bit unclear on this difference between platforms. > As I understand it the Mac uses LF for a delimiter, and the PC uses > CR. When I end the lines with return, it does not end up as a CR in > the output file. Is there a simple way to specify an end to my lines > that is compatible with all platforms for .csv files that are read by > programs other than Rev? Dennis, are you creating these .csv files from Rev? Or is this a general question? If you're doing it from Rev, both Eric and Jon were pointing you in the right direction. If you're looking for more general-purpose application solution, many text editors will allow you to pick the output file format (many times it's buried, though). For example, in BBEdit, you do "Save As", then click the Options button and there's a popup for "Line Breaks" with choices for Macintosh, Unix, and DOS. I use TextPad on Windows, and they have a "File Format" popup in the Save As dialog. Anyway, you get the idea... Ken Ray Sons of Thunder Software Web site: http://www.sonsothunder.com/ Email: kray at sonsothunder.com From jacque at hyperactivesw.com Wed Jun 22 12:18:11 2005 From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay) Date: Wed, 22 Jun 2005 11:18:11 -0500 Subject: background groups issues In-Reply-To: <20050622142131.EDEB293005B@mail.runrev.com> References: <20050622142131.EDEB293005B@mail.runrev.com> Message-ID: <42B98F43.6070305@hyperactivesw.com> On 6/22/05 10:03 AM, MisterX wrote: > Example: create stack, create a bg group 1, create a bg grp 2. > > Now create cards... No probs, all is replicated. > > If you go back to cd 1 and create a new bg group then > - it's not in the other cards you made prev. > - if you create new cards, you have 3 bgs but previous > bgs still have 2. Sort the stack by anything, you got a > big bg mess ;) This is correct behavior. Revolution does not assume that a new group should be placed on existing cards. You have to place it yourself. I wouldn't want it any other way. However, any new cards will inherit a background group. -- Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com From rcozens at pon.net Wed Jun 22 12:17:04 2005 From: rcozens at pon.net (Rob Cozens) Date: Wed, 22 Jun 2005 09:17:04 -0700 Subject: compileIt for revolution? In-Reply-To: <20050622143650.EFBCF9300D6@mail.runrev.com> References: <386EA08D-07BE-4754-AB4A-3616B73A9E9F@writeme.com> <20050622143650.EFBCF9300D6@mail.runrev.com> Message-ID: <6.2.1.2.1.20050622091456.01e83d80@pop3.pon.net> Mr. X, et al: >The whole compileIT is not required but an internal module to create >ultra-fast native code would be great. Now that would be a programmer's tool >worth any eye candy in RunRev. Add access to system calls, and you have my support. Rob Cozens Wisdom entereth not into a malicious mind, and science without conscience is but the ruin of the soul. -- Fran?ois Rabelais (c. 1494-1553) From revdan at danshafer.com Wed Jun 22 01:53:21 2005 From: revdan at danshafer.com (Dan Shafer) Date: Tue, 21 Jun 2005 22:53:21 -0700 Subject: compileIt for revolution? In-Reply-To: <6f32f438ffcc982cdee1d8735624c743@qldlearning.com> References: <20050622034955.C8E81930064@mail.runrev.com> <6f32f438ffcc982cdee1d8735624c743@qldlearning.com> Message-ID: <1EDE423A-4757-453D-8B02-BA4949388386@danshafer.com> Not forgetting, Brian, just discounting. :-D I avoided that stuff like the plague. Guess I'm a bit of an xtalk purist (or some would say bigot). Transcript isn't going to be THE solution/language for all problems. Every time we try to glue something onto it to solve a problem it wasn't intended to solve, we risk making the stuff it does do easily and well harder. Transcript/Rev aren't a general-purpose environment. There's a whole class of apps for which they are ideally suited. There are also many for which it's not the right tool. I'm in favor of continuing to make it do what it does do better and better. I suspect you are, too, so I'm not being contrary here, just clarifying. On Jun 21, 2005, at 10:31 PM, Brian Yennie wrote: > Dan, > > You're forgetting a huge feature of CompileIt! (in fact, the only > one I used it for, I never found much use in trying to just speed > up scripts with it)... direct toolbox access. > > While Rev eliminates a lot of the need, it would certainly be nice > to be able to write externals in xTalk- and toolbox access is > something a lot of people here want. > > With that said, I don't think it's happening, and if anything it > would come in the form of toolbox access from the engine. > > - Brian > > >> Xavier.... >> >> I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree about this. >> >> How in the world would you expect a compiled script or handler -- >> if such a thing were possible -- to then be smoothly integrated >> into a stand-alone app? >> >> We needed CompileIt! in HyperCard *far* less for performance than >> for code protection and the ability to deliver stuff that didn't >> require the player to be around. Neither of those is an issue >> today in Revolution. >> >> As for performance, tuning for such situations has produced >> staggering results. I was blown away in Monterey last weekend to >> watch a dynamically populated menu that was pulling its contents >> from 100 text files appear in under a second. I've never heard >> much here in the way of complaints about slow programs written in >> Rev. >> >> Dan >> >> On Jun 21, 2005, at 9:31 PM, MisterX wrote: >> >> >>> Dan, >>> >>> Creating apps with rev has NOTHING to do with compileIt. >>> >>> I really would like to speed up some scripts to manipulate >>> arrays (where rev has some serious limitations) and the best >>> possible way to do that would be to have something like >>> CompileIt. >>> >>> I cannot create DLL to create externals in Rev can i? ;) >>> >>> There's an apparent fan group of CompileIT who would pay >>> dearly to get this functionality back. And I'd rather shell >>> out credits to rev than to Moft or MW for a dll compiler for >>> externals. >>> >>> Meanwhile, in the jungle, any rev app without this and >>> manipulating many lists or very long is definitely a dog >>> compared to any real-compiled application. Rev will never >>> compete in that "segment" compared to a real compiled app. >>> Although this is apparent, it is not when all of your >>> application runs smooth and fast, until the user enters >>> his real data. >>> >>> Example: The HotKeyN2O stack stores all properties of all >>> controls in a card when the user opens the card. The props >>> are all in array form which cannot be stored into another >>> array (time based array of object changes). So for each >>> object i have to translate array[key]=data to data. >>> >>> This in turn is stored into a time-based array. So if i need >>> to restore the property (any) for any object and at any time, >>> it's ultra easy - except that the translation process is so >>> slow after 10 controls trasnlated that it's USELESS if i dont >>> write that into a real-compiled external. >>> >>> So CompileIt is needed - and very much so i would say - we >>> all have these uses for it where Rev just doesn't can't >>> perform fast enough. >>> >>> cheers >>> Xavier >>> >>> >>> >>>> -----Original Message----- >>>> From: use-revolution-bounces at lists.runrev.com >>>> [mailto:use-revolution-bounces at lists.runrev.com] On Behalf Of >>>> Dan Shafer >>>> Sent: Wednesday, June 22, 2005 06:10 >>>> To: How to use Revolution >>>> Subject: Re: compileIt for revolution? >>>> >>>> I think perhaps you haven't yet understood Revolution very well. >>>> That's cool; it takes a while. >>>> >>>> With Rev, we don't need CompileIt! because Rev produces >>>> stand-alone, compiled applications for multiple platforms as >>>> part of its way of doing business. >>>> >>>> >>>> On Jun 21, 2005, at 6:48 PM, Eric Engle wrote: >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>> Is there any chance that Heizer/Royalsoft (or anyone else for that >>>>> matter) will >>>>> make a script compiler for revolution like compileIt? >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ >>>> Dan Shafer, Revolution Consultant and Author >>>> http://www.shafermedia.com Get my book, "Revolution: Software >>>> at the Speed of Thought" >>>> From RunRev Store >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> use-revolution mailing list >>>> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com >>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage >>>> your subscription preferences: >>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution >>>> >>>> >>>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> use-revolution mailing list >>> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com >>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >>> subscription preferences: >>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution >>> >>> >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> use-revolution mailing list >> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >> subscription preferences: >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution >> >> >> > > _______________________________________________ > use-revolution mailing list > use-revolution at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution > > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Dan Shafer, Revolution Consultant and Author http://www.shafermedia.com Get my book, "Revolution: Software at the Speed of Thought" From http://www.shafermedia.com/revolutionbooks.html From katir at hindu.org Wed Jun 22 02:50:27 2005 From: katir at hindu.org (Sivakatirswami) Date: Tue, 21 Jun 2005 20:50:27 -1000 Subject: Food Fight - Rev Name Space In-Reply-To: <42B7B87E.2090807@fourthworld.com> References: <20050619235920.35423.qmail@web33001.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <66ebdb7cdb54ba2d2e49d62bd8fa98a3@swcp.com> <61EEEC49-BEE3-4C05-A1F2-E9DB60E76A73@writeme.com> <42B7B87E.2090807@fourthworld.com> Message-ID: <7F95AE27-10C3-408B-B56F-F554F5414E81@hindu.org> One is immediately struck by the larger implications of this "microcosm" of non-conflicting Rev tools and therefore the greater significance of establishing these conventions. <"blue sky" dream> A single, universal "player" ala Acrobat Reader, suddenly goes "big time" in terms of popularity "The RunRev Reader." Let's say we were to feature this at our very hot page on our web site: http:// www.himalayanacademy.com/resources/... where I know, if we were to feature such a standalone player, we would get between 2,000 and 10,000 downloads a month... not CNN to be sure, but also not trivial...multiply this by say, 20 other web sites offering this same player/reader....and imagine 200,000 people around the world, every month = 1.4 million per year. Now this universal player has built into it an index to an online library of stacks... not standalones. Some free, some shareware, some demos for macho apps. Kagi could host this stack inventory... kind of like versionTracker for Rev... Now these "apps" (that do not carry the core engine...) are running in the neighbourhood of from 15k widgets to 12Meg stacks with tons of media...which could vary from trivial toys to serious stuff for Dad like "Family Tax Manager" .....downloads and performance would be incredible. In the face of the JAVA sloths worms deployed on the web, this thing would be so alive... It would just dance! OK so, users start "going nuts" as some apple users are over dash board widgets...(they are indeed many of them super cool and useful at the same time...) in no time at all some kid has 50-100 stacks on his hard drive... all driven by this one player. OK so, he just starts booting up all these stacks... he doesn't think to close them.. 20 minutes later... 15 stacks are up and running... In this dream the rev namespace is no longer a trivial issue. addendum to story: demand for the IDE skyrockets, Kevin and team become millionaires, they hire legions of engineers, every bug is fixed nightly and new builds are issued on a 72 hour cron... Anyway... I'm already there, in our little ocean of stacks here: I find myself more and more resisting the impulse to build stand alones and tell our people ("Get the Player"). It is so "sweet" to be able to zip a stack, whose size drops down to some 25K, and send this as an email attachment... Upgrades to stacks are a 10 second download... upgrade to the player... once or twice a year, max... I got my creator code from apple and so on Macs double clicking stacks will boot my player... (still need to get my head around windows doc/app binding) ...and I've deployed enough apps now that run under this "Himalayan Academy Stack Player" that I already starting to clobber my own globals and substacks. I had "Prefs" and "Dev Notes" substacks all over the place... so, now I'm doing a 4 ltr prefix taken from the main stack name ATRA-Prefs, ATRA-Dev Notes... but if you are working on conventions for this... I would follow... Richard, for those who were not at RevCon. where is the full ball of wax? Andre gave me the files you shared at RevCon... OK, down to earth again, to something real here: gDateString... is already becoming too ambiguous where, for two different running stacks, it may need two different values. Or the even more ubiquitous "gFilePath" If I understand the ECMI convention proposal correctly I should start using a double prefix as in: Himalayan Academy Publications # where do I go to register this officially with ECMI? e.g. 1
Audio Transcriber.rev e.g. 2:
Photo Caption Writer.rev What then does the global nameing convention become? (I do think separators help readability) gHAP_ATRA_FilePath gHAP_PCAP_DateString Am I close? Yes, long and perhaps overkill in appearance, but I've enough grey whiskers now that start twitching when anything (folder names, file names, plans for web apps) go near the quicksand of ambiguity. I've been burnt too many times... I don't mind doing this at all! Sivakatirswami p.s. can we consider changing the name of this thread? On Jun 20, 2005, at 8:49 PM, Richard Gaskin wrote: > At present there are more dozens of prolific tool authors for the > Rev community, and the number grows every month. There are a > handful of issues with the development and deployment of tools that > are common to all, and by choosing to adopt a few fully-optional > rules about how things are put together we can collectively ensure > robust and reliable performance for all of them. > > In the case of the ECMI recommendations this goes a step further > from simply not stepping on other tools to allowing graceful > integration of various tools. > > One should ideally be able to tailor their workspace with tools > from any toolmaker, and expect that they'll all work without > conflict. This is full realizable with little effort. From see3d at writeme.com Wed Jun 22 12:40:09 2005 From: see3d at writeme.com (Dennis Brown) Date: Wed, 22 Jun 2005 12:40:09 -0400 Subject: Naming conventions [was: Food Fight] In-Reply-To: References: <20050619235920.35423.qmail@web33001.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <66ebdb7cdb54ba2d2e49d62bd8fa98a3@swcp.com> <61EEEC49-BEE3-4C05-A1F2-E9DB60E76A73@writeme.com> Message-ID: Thanks for the many replies about naming conventions. So to summarize: 1. The cryptic names are not really being pushed to make things unreadable, but as protection from the deficiencies of Rev. 2. The lack of a naming scope somewhere between local and global (such as namespace or the method I suggested) has resulted in the burden being passed on to the programmer to come up with a hopefully (but not guaranteed) unique naming convention for globals that he wants to own exclusively. Just putting a "g" in front of them is no better than not --because if everyone puts a "g" in front they are all in alignment again, but what the heck, I'm not going to be able to pronounce it anyway so I'll throw it in just so someone can understand why the name is ridiculously long. You need to come up with something that does not look like an understandable name because that might seem like a good name to someone else also. So if we want to use a global, we really need to have a registry of global prefixes so that a developer can claim a unique one. For example I might want to use gSee3d. The number is so I can serialize my different projects (I will need my own private registry to keep track of those), and the name is what I want to call my global. For instance gSee3D005FilePathToMyData. Yes, I think I understand it now --where is the nearest restroom? BTW: My current project (1 stack 1 card) has over 100 globals defined (many are large arrays) so that I can use a combination of created scripted groups of objects and common handlers where possible without needing to pass many arguments. I have to do this awkward thing to make up for the slow speed of array processing and ironically to make my scripts maintainable. Using names like these would cause my script lines to be very long an completely unreadable! I use names like TF1,TB1 now instead of TriggerField1 and TriggerButton1. I just define the abbreviations in the comments of the handler. If my shortened names were gSee3D005FTF1, gSee3D005FTB1, I might have a hard time skimming the difference in the names causing more bugs. I would not mind if the Rev IDE would allow me to do something like: set privateGlobals to "See3d005". I will declare: privateGlobal TB1,TF1, or possibly: privateGlobal "See3d005" TB1,TF1. Then internally, the IDE can prepend the See3d005 to TB1, but in my scripts I only have to use TB1. That should be trivial to implement and I could happily live with that. 3. The reason for making local variables a bit ugly is to guarantee that they will not conflict with future keywords. That is a reasonable consideration and bears further thought on the "nicest" way to do that. Of course explicit variables is a good idea here. If you declare a local name, it should override when it makes sense as a variable name so future names will not break old stuff. It is also highly likely that a handler for a missing capability might use the same name when a built in command is created in the future. 4. The reason for making custom property names a bit ugly is to guarantee that they will not conflict with future built-in properties. That is a reasonable consideration also and bears further thought on the "nicest" way to do that. aWell bThis cIs dVery eInterresting. fPerhaps gWe hCan iPropose jSomething kThat lMakes mA nBit oMore pSense qBy rAddressing sThe tReal uIssues vBetween wWhat xUsers yNeed zTo aDo, bAnd cWhat dTranscript eNeeds fTo gDo. I don't know about you, but my skimming speed is as slow as Rev array processing when I try to read the last sentence (and I just wrote it)! Did I miss any important points? On Jun 21, 2005, at 4:58 AM, Dave Cragg wrote: > > On 20 Jun 2005, at 21:06, Dennis Brown wrote: > > >> Dar, >> >> Thank you for standing up for the rights (in a good natured way) >> of those who think it's overkill to have all these structured >> names in a conversational language with handlers that are usually >> only a few lines long. Why mar the elegance of a understandable >> name with cryptic unpronounceable prefix letters all over the >> place? It's not as if I wouldn't be able to instantly recognize >> ten years later what the local variable named partNumber in my 20 >> line script was for, or even that it was a local. >> > > I sympathise with your view. Although I use east-central-Hungarian- > semi-strict myself, I'd hate to see this stuff forced on anyone. > > But there are advantages that it's useful to know about. Others > have mentioned namespace clashes. Another advanatge relates to your > "ten years later" comment. xTalks have a large number of reserved > words in the form of commands, functions and properties, and over > time this number has grown. So a variable with a friendly name you > create now, may become a reserved word ten years from now. Those > who spend any time converting old Hypercard stacks probably know > how frustrating this can be. As an example, I recently converted > some Hypercard stacks that used the names "startframe" and > "endframe" as parameters in various message and function handlers. > I'm sure these seemed appropriate to the original author, but the > Rev compiler didn't like them. Rather than spend time thinking of > alternative available "natural" names, I just stuck a "p" in front > -- pStartframe, pEndframe. This quickly becomes a habit, so that > in no tTime, you gFind yourself taking sThis approach to pAll > variables. > > Cheers > Dave > _______________________________________________ > use-revolution mailing list > use-revolution at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution > From b.xavier at internet.lu Wed Jun 22 12:41:38 2005 From: b.xavier at internet.lu (MisterX) Date: Wed, 22 Jun 2005 18:41:38 +0200 Subject: compileIt for revolution? In-Reply-To: <20050622141403.42708.qmail@web51102.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <20050622160127.1D86B93012B@mail.runrev.com> Gordon, Beware that even i surprise myself with newby tricks. I just posted a "slow" fractal moire maker. It creates beautiful patterns and the detail is amazing but it does so creating some 40000 graphics in a card. For the truely beautiful patterns, it took 300000 graphics! The making can still be optimized but deleting images cannot be done like words in a field! Delete graphic 1 to -1 or delete all graphics doesn't work. i have the patience to create these graphics and see them rendered. But when it comes to getting rid of them, no way! And the clearGraphics routine took foreever! 200 graphics per second... You do the math - many minutes wasted waiting to create a better pattern. The trick was to create all the graphics in a group. when the graphic is done, delete the group. 300000 graphics deleted in 2 seconds. Hope this brings insight... Rev does wonders you wouldn't believe - and C optimization is not always the trick - the objects are not the same when it comes to the GUI. But when it comes to doing many of many things in a script that's where it starts showing... Like i said, there's always another way to do it! cheers Xav > -----Original Message----- > From: use-revolution-bounces at lists.runrev.com > [mailto:use-revolution-bounces at lists.runrev.com] On Behalf Of > Gordon Webster > Sent: Wednesday, June 22, 2005 16:14 > To: How to use Revolution > Subject: Re: compileIt for revolution? > > I would absolutely echo what Dennis has just said. I was > initially really impressed with rev and I should say I still > am in certain respects - comfort and ease of use, the elegant > and intuitive language and stack/card paradigm etc. etc. > > But I have been unable to get rev to do what I want it to do > behind the scenes (i.e. my application logic) without jumping > through the kinds of hoops that Dennis describes - > effectively negating all the advantages of programming in > Transcript that I just outlined. > > And even when I could get the code working, man it was SLOW. > It was discouraging to see Python easily outrun rev for the > equivalent code - I mean I love Python and all, but it's > hardly the gold standard for speed. > > I would think that the stack paradigm would neatly allow for > the creation of strongly-typed stacks that could be jumped > into from the kind of warm and fuzzy typeless stacks that > give rev its wonderful flexibility. The compiler could then > insist on declarations for all objects within the typed stack > and compile it with far greater optimization than is possible > for the typeless stacks, perhaps even going as far as native > code compilation :-D > > Imagine what a superb development environment rev could be > with these features. Flexible and typeless for all the > UI/scripty/fun parts of the app; more draconian but hellishly > fast for the down-to-the-metal hardcore byte-crunching parts > of the app. Strong typing would probably also make it a lot > easier to automate the process of calling externals from > Transcript without all those ghastly, clunky C wrappers and crap. > > There's a dream - a rev scientific application with a > beautiful interface rendering OpenGL objects in real time and > a typed, Transcript-coded stack running energy minimization > on a separate thread in the background. > > I doubt I'll put my hands in my pockets again and upgrade my > expired rev license just to have "deep masks" on my GUIs - > I'm not knocking it, it's just not a feature I urgently need > right now ... but fast compiled stacks, easy access to > externals ... now you're talking ... where's my check book? > > Best > > Gordon > > --- Dennis Brown wrote: > > > Dan, > > > > I also would like to speed up array processing. It kills > me that my > > friend won't move from VB to Rev because when I write the > same array > > processing problem that he uses, VB runs 10+ times > > faster than Rev. > > I also have had to jump through hoops trying to figure out ways to > > make my array processing go faster --it usually requires taking a > > simple script and making it 5 times as complicated as the way you > > would do it in VB or RB or any other ordinary language. It is not > > just for the type of math problems that I am dealing with. > As visual > > effects become more important, being able to quickly > process numeric > > arrays like a pixel image array becomes important. > > > > However, I don't think compiling scripts is the answer. I > love having > > the interpreted environment for interactive debug and > experimentation. > > The UI is where all the code and debugging time is spent. I don't > > want to trade that in for anything. > > Rev is all about > > UI, but weak on array speed. The language as it is > > defined would > > hardly be faster as a compiled version because of the type-less and > > stringy nature of the variables. Compiled languages get their > > effeciency by the programmer telling them up front the data > type and > > therefore the correspondence to specific machine > > code operators. > > There is no guessing or mixing of types. The processing of numeric > > (or fixed length strings) hardly needs any checks at runtime. > > > > What I advocate is a cross platform runtime package that is a pure > > fixed type, fixed operator, math orientated array language. > It can be > > PCode or threaded with very low overhead. > > Languages with no UI > > considerations are very easy to create and code for a machine code > > programmer. I would like to see the basic operators and control > > structures to work on regular arrays of n dimensions. I am not > > actually referring to "array" operators, just the ability to apply > > ordinary operators to one addressable array element at a time with > > efficient looping structures. That should result in an order of > > magnitude increase in speed for the stuff that bogs Rev > down, and open > > up Rev as a universal development tool. > > > > The key is to have an efficient and elegant way for Rev to interface > > with such a package. It needs to be able to pass > > the "program code" > > and pass array elements, rows, columns, and whole arrays to the > > coprocessor (really it just needs to be able to pass > pointers to the > > array memory blocks). > > > > As long as Rev has this Achilles heel, it will preclude > it's use as a > > "real" programming language in the minds of many. > > > > I did make a BZ enhancement request, but I think it could > benefit from > > a discussion on this list. > > > > Dennis > > > > > > On Jun 22, 2005, at 1:27 AM, Dan Shafer wrote: > > > > > Xavier.... > > > > > > I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree about > > this. > > > > > > How in the world would you expect a compiled > > script or handler -- > > > if such a thing were possible -- to then be > > smoothly integrated > > > into a stand-alone app? > > > > > > We needed CompileIt! in HyperCard *far* less for > > performance than > > > for code protection and the ability to deliver > > stuff that didn't > > > require the player to be around. Neither of those > > is an issue today > > > in Revolution. > > > > > > As for performance, tuning for such situations has > > produced > > > staggering results. I was blown away in Monterey > > last weekend to > > > watch a dynamically populated menu that was > > pulling its contents > > > from 100 text files appear in under a second. I've > > never heard much > > > here in the way of complaints about slow programs > > written in Rev. > > > > > > Dan > > > > > > On Jun 21, 2005, at 9:31 PM, MisterX wrote: > > > > > > > > >> Dan, > > >> > > >> Creating apps with rev has NOTHING to do with > > compileIt. > > >> > > >> I really would like to speed up some scripts to > > manipulate > > >> arrays (where rev has some serious limitations) > > and the best > > >> possible way to do that would be to have > > something like > > >> CompileIt. > > >> > > > > _______________________________________________ > > use-revolution mailing list > > use-revolution at lists.runrev.com > > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > > subscription preferences: > > > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution > > > > _______________________________________________ > use-revolution mailing list > use-revolution at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage > your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution > From jbondy at sover.net Wed Jun 22 12:42:50 2005 From: jbondy at sover.net (Jon) Date: Wed, 22 Jun 2005 12:42:50 -0400 Subject: Tab Fields: Ahhhhaaaahhhhh Now I get it. In-Reply-To: <1119454554.42b9855b0052a@webmail.armbase.com> References: <1119454554.42b9855b0052a@webmail.armbase.com> Message-ID: <42B9950A.8080608@sover.net> Bob: Since I'm not sure what you mean, SURE, why not write an intro! :) Jon rev at armbase.com wrote: >Hi All. > >I know one of the major problems with newbies (like I was a while back ) is >tab-fields/menus. Now I just revisited this today, making an app for our lab, >and I sussed out tab fileds. Now I know this may sound silly to the gurus, but >I really cannot beleive how simple it is. Now I have my head round it I feel >the need to rewrite everything. :-) > >Anyway, as a favour to newbies stuck with the concept. Would anyone like a >simple intro from a beginners point of view? I can write something for you >tomorrow if there are a few interested. > >All the best > >Bob > > >_______________________________________________ >use-revolution mailing list >use-revolution at lists.runrev.com >Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: >http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution > > > > From jbondy at sover.net Wed Jun 22 12:45:38 2005 From: jbondy at sover.net (Jon) Date: Wed, 22 Jun 2005 12:45:38 -0400 Subject: No entry in Window's task bar In-Reply-To: <6.2.1.2.2.20050622104206.18805470@exchange.slg.com> References: <6.2.1.2.2.20050622094316.1880bcd0@exchange.slg.com> <42B98583.3050301@sover.net> <6.2.1.2.2.20050622104206.18805470@exchange.slg.com> Message-ID: <42B995B2.5060409@sover.net> Peter: Right you are. After I sent my response, I read some of the other traffic, and realized I was not answering the question you asked. Sorry about that! :) Jon Peter T. Evensen wrote: > Do your windows have title bars? If so, that is why. Mine do not, > because they are completely graphical windows, so they don't appear. > > At 10:36 AM 6/22/2005, you wrote: > >> For what it's worth, I run more than one standalone ("compiled") >> stack in Windows all of the time, and they all show up in the >> TaskBar, the same as any other program. >> >> :) >> >> >> Peter T. Evensen wrote: >> >>> When I run my standalone, there is no entry for the program in the >>> Windows task bar. Mark Waddingham (I think it was) said this was >>> because my Windows don't have title bars. While this is true (all >>> my windows are graphical in nature), it seems that for a standalone >>> SOMETHING should appear in the task bar. If I bring any other >>> application to the front, I cannot get back to my Revolution >>> standalone. >>> >>> Has anyone else run into this? If so, how did you get around it? I >>> have hidden windows with title bars, but they don't seem to affect >>> things. >>> >>> Should I bugzilla this? It makes it hard to make a multi-media >>> application that plays nice in Windows. >>> >>> Peter T. Evensen >>> http://www.PetersRoadToHealth.com >>> 24-hour recorded info hotline: 1-800-624-7671 >>> _______________________________________________ >>> use-revolution mailing list >>> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com >>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >>> subscription preferences: >>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution >>> >> _______________________________________________ >> use-revolution mailing list >> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >> subscription preferences: >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution > > > Peter T. Evensen > http://www.PetersRoadToHealth.com > 24-hour recorded info hotline: 1-800-624-7671 > _______________________________________________ > use-revolution mailing list > use-revolution at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution > > From kaveh at river-valley.com Wed Jun 22 12:50:43 2005 From: kaveh at river-valley.com (Kaveh Bazargan) Date: Wed, 22 Jun 2005 17:50:43 +0100 Subject: Tab Fields: Ahhhhaaaahhhhh Now I get it. In-Reply-To: <42B9950A.8080608@sover.net> References: <1119454554.42b9855b0052a@webmail.armbase.com> <42B9950A.8080608@sover.net> Message-ID: At 12:42 -0400 22/6/05, Jon wrote: >Bob: > >Since I'm not sure what you mean, SURE, why not write an intro! Yes please. Me too. :-) -- Kaveh Bazargan http://www.river-valley.com/ http://www.holographer.org/ From kray at sonsothunder.com Wed Jun 22 12:51:53 2005 From: kray at sonsothunder.com (Ken Ray) Date: Wed, 22 Jun 2005 11:51:53 -0500 Subject: Food Fight - Rev Name Space In-Reply-To: <7F95AE27-10C3-408B-B56F-F554F5414E81@hindu.org> Message-ID: On 6/22/05 1:50 AM, "Sivakatirswami" wrote: > If I understand the ECMI convention proposal correctly I should start > using a double prefix as in: > > Himalayan Academy Publications > > # where do I go to register this officially with ECMI? > > e.g. 1
Audio Transcriber.rev > e.g. 2:
Photo Caption Writer.rev > > What then does the global nameing convention become? (I do think > separators help readability) > > gHAP_ATRA_FilePath > gHAP_PCAP_DateString > > Am I close? Sort of... the company name is something that should be unique and understood by others implementing RIP (this was a recent change - "ECMI" is the metadata standard, while RIP is the Revolution Interoperability Protocol and is used to manage the interoperability issues like namespaces). Both you and Paul Looney have suggested that a registry start being kept... so if you want to email me with your company prefix (unless you're going to use HAP), I'll start setting up a document and posting it at the Rev Interop group (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/revInterop/). In fact, you should go over there and download the latest (Draft 004) specification so you can see how the globals/etc. are used. You'll see the second part of the string is relative to your product name, so you can use anything you like since the company prefix is unique. Ken Ray Sons of Thunder Software Web site: http://www.sonsothunder.com/ Email: kray at sonsothunder.com From see3d at writeme.com Wed Jun 22 12:52:53 2005 From: see3d at writeme.com (Dennis Brown) Date: Wed, 22 Jun 2005 12:52:53 -0400 Subject: Mac vs PC .csv files In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <74FAFCDE-F683-4DCA-84E6-4C67C1E95966@writeme.com> Thanks, Ken, Eric, and Jon, I was looking to create them in Rev. Importing and exporting them from another program (Excel) is what I am doing now. Dennis On Jun 22, 2005, at 12:16 PM, Ken Ray wrote: > On 6/22/05 10:07 AM, "Dennis Brown" wrote: > > >> Good day to everyone, >> >> I have been ask by a friend on a PC to send him some files in .csv >> format. When I do, he complains that the returns are missing. I >> guess I am still a bit unclear on this difference between platforms. >> As I understand it the Mac uses LF for a delimiter, and the PC uses >> CR. When I end the lines with return, it does not end up as a CR in >> the output file. Is there a simple way to specify an end to my lines >> that is compatible with all platforms for .csv files that are read by >> programs other than Rev? >> > > Dennis, are you creating these .csv files from Rev? Or is this a > general > question? If you're doing it from Rev, both Eric and Jon were > pointing you > in the right direction. > > If you're looking for more general-purpose application solution, > many text > editors will allow you to pick the output file format (many times it's > buried, though). For example, in BBEdit, you do "Save As", then > click the > Options button and there's a popup for "Line Breaks" with choices for > Macintosh, Unix, and DOS. I use TextPad on Windows, and they have a > "File > Format" popup in the Save As dialog. Anyway, you get the idea... > > > Ken Ray > Sons of Thunder Software > Web site: http://www.sonsothunder.com/ > Email: kray at sonsothunder.com > > _______________________________________________ > use-revolution mailing list > use-revolution at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution > From gwalias-rev at yahoo.com Wed Jun 22 13:04:04 2005 From: gwalias-rev at yahoo.com (Gordon Webster) Date: Wed, 22 Jun 2005 10:04:04 -0700 (PDT) Subject: compileIt for revolution? In-Reply-To: <20050622160127.1D86B93012B@mail.runrev.com> Message-ID: <20050622170404.76336.qmail@web51107.mail.yahoo.com> Sweet! But still all UI-related. You'll get no argument from me that rev is great for the UI, but no amount of such trickery will ever allow me to implement an efficient algorithm in Transcript to process large 3-dimensional arrays of floating point numbers ... and have it complete while I'm still young enough to care about the results. ... at least not in the Transcript we currently have ;) Gordon --- MisterX wrote: > Gordon, > > Beware that even i surprise myself with newby > tricks. > > I just posted a "slow" fractal moire maker. It > creates beautiful patterns > and the detail is amazing but it does so creating > some 40000 graphics in a > card. For the truely beautiful patterns, it took > 300000 graphics! The making > can still be optimized but deleting images cannot be > done like words in a > field! Delete graphic 1 to -1 or delete all graphics > doesn't work. > > i have the patience to create these graphics and see > them rendered. But when > it comes to getting rid of them, no way! And the > clearGraphics routine took > foreever! 200 graphics per second... You do the math > - many minutes wasted > waiting to create a better pattern. > > The trick was to create all the graphics in a group. > when the graphic is done, delete the group. > > 300000 graphics deleted in 2 seconds. > > Hope this brings insight... Rev does wonders you > wouldn't believe - and C > optimization is not always the trick - the objects > are not the same when it > comes to the GUI. But when it comes to doing many of > many things in a script > that's where it starts showing... Like i said, > there's always another way to > do it! > > cheers > Xav > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: use-revolution-bounces at lists.runrev.com > > [mailto:use-revolution-bounces at lists.runrev.com] > On Behalf Of > > Gordon Webster > > Sent: Wednesday, June 22, 2005 16:14 > > To: How to use Revolution > > Subject: Re: compileIt for revolution? > > > > I would absolutely echo what Dennis has just said. > I was > > initially really impressed with rev and I should > say I still > > am in certain respects - comfort and ease of use, > the elegant > > and intuitive language and stack/card paradigm > etc. etc. > > > > But I have been unable to get rev to do what I > want it to do > > behind the scenes (i.e. my application logic) > without jumping > > through the kinds of hoops that Dennis describes - > > > effectively negating all the advantages of > programming in > > Transcript that I just outlined. > > > > And even when I could get the code working, man it > was SLOW. > > It was discouraging to see Python easily outrun > rev for the > > equivalent code - I mean I love Python and all, > but it's > > hardly the gold standard for speed. > > > > I would think that the stack paradigm would neatly > allow for > > the creation of strongly-typed stacks that could > be jumped > > into from the kind of warm and fuzzy typeless > stacks that > > give rev its wonderful flexibility. The compiler > could then > > insist on declarations for all objects within the > typed stack > > and compile it with far greater optimization than > is possible > > for the typeless stacks, perhaps even going as far > as native > > code compilation :-D > > > > Imagine what a superb development environment rev > could be > > with these features. Flexible and typeless for all > the > > UI/scripty/fun parts of the app; more draconian > but hellishly > > fast for the down-to-the-metal hardcore > byte-crunching parts > > of the app. Strong typing would probably also make > it a lot > > easier to automate the process of calling > externals from > > Transcript without all those ghastly, clunky C > wrappers and crap. > > > > There's a dream - a rev scientific application > with a > > beautiful interface rendering OpenGL objects in > real time and > > a typed, Transcript-coded stack running energy > minimization > > on a separate thread in the background. > > > > I doubt I'll put my hands in my pockets again and > upgrade my > > expired rev license just to have "deep masks" on > my GUIs - > > I'm not knocking it, it's just not a feature I > urgently need > > right now ... but fast compiled stacks, easy > access to > > externals ... now you're talking ... where's my > check book? > > > > Best > > > > Gordon > > > > --- Dennis Brown wrote: > > > > > Dan, > > > > > > I also would like to speed up array processing. > It kills > > me that my > > > friend won't move from VB to Rev because when I > write the > > same array > > > processing problem that he uses, VB runs 10+ > times > > > faster than Rev. > > > I also have had to jump through hoops trying to > figure out ways to > > > make my array processing go faster --it usually > requires taking a > > > simple script and making it 5 times as > complicated as the way you > > > would do it in VB or RB or any other ordinary > language. It is not > > > just for the type of math problems that I am > dealing with. > > As visual > > > effects become more important, being able to > quickly > > process numeric > > > arrays like a pixel image array becomes > important. > > > > > > However, I don't think compiling scripts is the > answer. I > > love having > > > the interpreted environment for interactive > debug and > > experimentation. > > > The UI is where all the code and debugging time > is spent. I don't > > > want to trade that in for anything. > > > Rev is all about > > > UI, but weak on array speed. The language as > it is > > > defined would > > > hardly be faster as a compiled version because > of the type-less and > > > stringy nature of the variables. Compiled > languages get their > > > effeciency by the programmer telling them up > front the data > > type and > > > therefore the correspondence to specific machine > > > code operators. > > > There is no guessing or mixing of types. The > processing of numeric > > > (or fixed length strings) hardly needs any > checks at runtime. > > > > > > What I advocate is a cross platform runtime > package that is a pure > > > fixed type, fixed operator, math orientated > array language. > > It can be > > > PCode or threaded with very low overhead. > > > Languages with no UI > > > considerations are very easy to create and code > for a machine code > > > programmer. I would like to see the basic > operators and control > > > structures to work on regular arrays of n > dimensions. === message truncated === From katir at hindu.org Wed Jun 22 13:04:12 2005 From: katir at hindu.org (Sivakatirswami) Date: Wed, 22 Jun 2005 07:04:12 -1000 Subject: Food Fight - Rev Name Space In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <98C34745-AC83-4222-884F-8B0B2D7E35B6@hindu.org> Aloha, Ken: Yes "HAP" = Himalayan Academy Publications" "Always has... always will, carved in stone." So, thanks you.. enter it on the new registry. Thanks! Sivakatirswami On Jun 22, 2005, at 6:51 AM, Ken Ray wrote: > On 6/22/05 1:50 AM, "Sivakatirswami" wrote: > > >> If I understand the ECMI convention proposal correctly I should start >> using a double prefix as in: >> >> Himalayan Academy Publications >> >> # where do I go to register this officially with ECMI? >> >> e.g. 1
Audio Transcriber.rev >> e.g. 2:
Photo Caption Writer.rev >> >> What then does the global nameing convention become? (I do think >> separators help readability) >> >> gHAP_ATRA_FilePath >> gHAP_PCAP_DateString >> >> Am I close? >> > > Sort of... the company name is something that should be unique and > understood by others implementing RIP (this was a recent change - > "ECMI" is > the metadata standard, while RIP is the Revolution Interoperability > Protocol > and is used to manage the interoperability issues like namespaces). > > Both you and Paul Looney have suggested that a registry start being > kept... > so if you want to email me with your company prefix (unless you're > going to > use HAP), I'll start setting up a document and posting it at the > Rev Interop > group (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/revInterop/). > > In fact, you should go over there and download the latest (Draft 004) > specification so you can see how the globals/etc. are used. You'll > see the > second part of the string is relative to your product name, so you > can use > anything you like since the company prefix is unique. > > Ken Ray > Sons of Thunder Software > Web site: http://www.sonsothunder.com/ > Email: kray at sonsothunder.com > > _______________________________________________ > use-revolution mailing list > use-revolution at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution > From see3d at writeme.com Wed Jun 22 13:05:50 2005 From: see3d at writeme.com (Dennis Brown) Date: Wed, 22 Jun 2005 13:05:50 -0400 Subject: compileIt for revolution? In-Reply-To: <6.2.1.2.1.20050622091456.01e83d80@pop3.pon.net> References: <386EA08D-07BE-4754-AB4A-3616B73A9E9F@writeme.com> <20050622143650.EFBCF9300D6@mail.runrev.com> <6.2.1.2.1.20050622091456.01e83d80@pop3.pon.net> Message-ID: I think the issue here is an elegant and efficient way to interface with externals. If we had this, it would solve both problems. When I say efficient, I don't mean pass a 100MB array as a text string to an external that converts it to numbers than does some processing and converts back to a text string and passes the 100MB back, then the 100MB is passed again to the external for the next processing step... NOT the solution! Dennis On Jun 22, 2005, at 12:17 PM, Rob Cozens wrote: > Mr. X, et al: > > >> The whole compileIT is not required but an internal module to create >> ultra-fast native code would be great. Now that would be a >> programmer's tool >> worth any eye candy in RunRev. >> > > Add access to system calls, and you have my support. > > Rob Cozens > > Wisdom entereth not into a malicious mind, and science without > conscience is but the ruin of the soul. > > -- Fran?ois Rabelais (c. 1494-1553) > > _______________________________________________ > use-revolution mailing list > use-revolution at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution > From jperryl at ecs.fullerton.edu Wed Jun 22 13:07:32 2005 From: jperryl at ecs.fullerton.edu (Judy Perry) Date: Wed, 22 Jun 2005 10:07:32 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Bug with background groups In-Reply-To: <28B8BAAD-3FF7-4E64-AFB3-DA8398E8BA47@pandora.be> Message-ID: I'm still on 2.5.x, but what you're describing isn't happenning here... Judy 2.5.? & LS 10.3.8 On Wed, 22 Jun 2005, Ton Kuypers wrote: > I'm using RR 2.6 on Tiger. > > I've created a bunch of fields and labels to give a description to > the user on what to put in those fields. > Then I grouped all items and checked the "behave like a background" > in the property inspector. > > When I create a new card, all fields, popup menu's etc. are copied to > the new card, but the labels are gone... From jperryl at ecs.fullerton.edu Wed Jun 22 13:08:56 2005 From: jperryl at ecs.fullerton.edu (Judy Perry) Date: Wed, 22 Jun 2005 10:08:56 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Bug with background groups In-Reply-To: <96CEAAF7-DAA7-4268-BD9F-7F85AAA04E19@sosmartsoftware.com> Message-ID: Which would seem to be the default?? Judy On Wed, 22 Jun 2005, Eric Chatonet wrote: > Just set the sharedText property to true for your labels and to false > for your fields :-) From eric.chatonet at sosmartsoftware.com Wed Jun 22 04:24:28 2005 From: eric.chatonet at sosmartsoftware.com (Eric Chatonet) Date: Wed, 22 Jun 2005 10:24:28 +0200 Subject: [ANN2] Correction Patch for Rev 2.6 Answer Dialog Message-ID: <6477305E-32D7-4BF4-A212-1EA062DDAE69@sosmartsoftware.com> Hi everyone, This morning (GMT time), I posted the following mail to the list: > Lately, I followed the thread about the Answer dialog weird > behaviour with Rev 2.6. > In fact, the dontwrap of the field displaying the prompt is > sometimes set (leaved) to false: this depends on the width of the > window or the width of the buttons set. > So, I wrote a correction patch: > > Just paste in the message box: > go url "http://www.sosmartsoftware.com/downloads/AnswerPatch26.rev" > And enjoy :-) > > cc to Runtime Revolution Support for information. Heather replied me quickly asking me to post the patch stack on Rev Online. So I did it: Now, the stack patch is also available on Rev Online (user: So Smart Software - category: Utilities) Best Regards from Paris, Eric Chatonet. ---------------------------------------------------------------- So Smart Software For institutions, companies and associations Built-to-order applications: management, multimedia, internet, etc. Windows, Mac OS and Linux... With the French touch Free plugins and tutorials on my website ---------------------------------------------------------------- Web site http://www.sosmartsoftware.com/ Email eric.chatonet at sosmartsoftware.com/ Phone 33 (0)1 43 31 77 62 Mobile 33 (0)6 20 74 50 86 ---------------------------------------------------------------- From bvg at mac.com Wed Jun 22 13:10:25 2005 From: bvg at mac.com (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Bj=F6rnke_von_Gierke?=) Date: Wed, 22 Jun 2005 19:10:25 +0200 Subject: [CCC] Simple challenge chat event Message-ID: <13e61967ebe4e35fff72b0040d3421e6@mac.com> Dear Revolution Community, After a long and thorough discussion (in other words, after fighting among ourselves ;-) ), the judges have (almost) chosen the winning stacks in the "Simple Challenge" of the ChatRev Coding Contest. To celebrate, we will announce the winners of the contest and discuss the entries, on a world-wide ChatRev session, next Friday, 24th June, at 21.30 CET (Note: See below for worldwide times). The winners will be invited to talk about their stack and to explain the approach to their solution. The whole event will last one hour at most. The three best stacks of this challenge will be made available on the ChatRev Coding Contest website, shortly after the event. The "Advanced Challenge" continues until 11th July and the "Impossible Challenge" until 8th August. Make sure to submit your solutions to each of the challenges in time, to win one of the wonderful prizes. To learn more about the Coding Contest, go to: http://contest.wecode.org If you need to get a copy of ChatRev, go to: http://chatrev.bjoernke.com We look forward to everyone joining us on ChatRev next Friday, 24th June! Warmest regards, The CCC judges, Bj?rnke Wouter Chipp Mark Ro Time Chart: CET 21.30 BST 20:30 EST 15:30 PST 12:30 -- http://contest.wecode.org Now running: the first ChatRev coding contest! sponsors: Altuit Andre Garzia Fourth World Karl Becker Runtime Revolution TidBITS in cooperation with eHUG From mwieder at ahsoftware.net Wed Jun 22 13:15:49 2005 From: mwieder at ahsoftware.net (Mark Wieder) Date: Wed, 22 Jun 2005 10:15:49 -0700 Subject: Naming conventions [was: Food Fight] In-Reply-To: References: <20050619235920.35423.qmail@web33001.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <66ebdb7cdb54ba2d2e49d62bd8fa98a3@swcp.com> <61EEEC49-BEE3-4C05-A1F2-E9DB60E76A73@writeme.com> Message-ID: <1017088402.20050622101549@ahsoftware.net> Dennis- Wednesday, June 22, 2005, 9:40:09 AM, you wrote: DB> aWell bThis cIs dVery eInterresting. fPerhaps gWe hCan iPropose DB> jSomething kThat lMakes mA nBit oMore pSense qBy rAddressing sThe DB> tReal uIssues vBetween wWhat xUsers yNeed zTo aDo, bAnd cWhat DB> dTranscript eNeeds fTo gDo. ROTFL. But I think more to the point would be adjWell proThis vbIs advVery adjInteresting. adjPerhaps proWe vbCan vbPropose nounSomething adjThat vbMakes artA nounBit adjMore nounSense prepBy vbAddressing artThe adjReal nIssues adjBetween adjWhat nounUsers vbNeed vbTo vbDo, conjAnd adjWhat nounTranscript vbNeeds vbTo vbDo. But the point isn't to try to read the code this way, it's more to try to keep the developer out of trouble. For instance, if you have put nounSomeValue into adjSomeVar you can see right away that you're trying to stuff a noun into an adjective container and that's probably not what you want to do. It makes pinpointing problems easier. Once you're used to it, anyway. -- -Mark Wieder mwieder at ahsoftware.net From rjb at robelko.com Wed Jun 22 13:00:19 2005 From: rjb at robelko.com (Robert Brenstein) Date: Wed, 22 Jun 2005 19:00:19 +0200 Subject: Mac vs PC .csv files In-Reply-To: <4410C3E3-7D0D-43AA-86F0-E8F6B93FAF7A@sosmartsoftware.com> References: <40DB10AC-0859-4455-9C71-EC58D0A3E868@writeme.com> <4410C3E3-7D0D-43AA-86F0-E8F6B93FAF7A@sosmartsoftware.com> Message-ID: >Hi Dennis, > >You could have a look at the macToIso and isoToMac functions. > Except that I don't think that mactoiso converts cr to crlf. After running mactoiso, he may have to replace cr with crlf and use binary write to save the file. I also had problems sending such files as email attachments. They work fine when transferred directly. Robert From eric.chatonet at sosmartsoftware.com Wed Jun 22 13:15:00 2005 From: eric.chatonet at sosmartsoftware.com (Eric Chatonet) Date: Wed, 22 Jun 2005 19:15:00 +0200 Subject: Bug with background groups In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hi Judy, Le 22 juin 05 ? 19:08, Judy Perry a ?crit : > Which would seem to be the default?? On Wed, 22 Jun 2005, Eric Chatonet wrote: > Just set the sharedText property to true for your labels and to false > for your fields :-) You are right but I suspect that Ton transformed usual fields to make its label fields ;-) That's the beauty with XTalks: you can transform everything immediately as you want it! Best Regards from Paris, Eric Chatonet. ---------------------------------------------------------------- So Smart Software For institutions, companies and associations Built-to-order applications: management, multimedia, internet, etc. Windows, Mac OS and Linux... With the French touch Free plugins and tutorials on my website ---------------------------------------------------------------- Web site http://www.sosmartsoftware.com/ Email eric.chatonet at sosmartsoftware.com/ Phone 33 (0)1 43 31 77 62 Mobile 33 (0)6 20 74 50 86 ---------------------------------------------------------------- From jperryl at ecs.fullerton.edu Wed Jun 22 13:19:05 2005 From: jperryl at ecs.fullerton.edu (Judy Perry) Date: Wed, 22 Jun 2005 10:19:05 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Principles for User-Interface Design In-Reply-To: <42B97C03.3000404@sover.net> Message-ID: I especially got a kick out of reading what he had to say about user-configurable UIs and MS Word 6 for Mac. Basically, his take was that user-configurable UIs are a TERRIBLE idea but, that in the case of Word 6 for Mac, the UI was already such a total piece of crap that anything that a user could do to "screw it up" with custom configuration could only be a step up. ;-) Judy On Wed, 22 Jun 2005, Jon wrote: > If you want a real kick in the UI pants, check out the late Jef Raskin's > book called The Humane Interface. His ideas are radical enough that > they cannot be implemented in most development environments, but they > are worth considering. From mwieder at ahsoftware.net Wed Jun 22 13:26:26 2005 From: mwieder at ahsoftware.net (Mark Wieder) Date: Wed, 22 Jun 2005 10:26:26 -0700 Subject: Food Fight - Rev Name Space In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1487725458.20050622102626@ahsoftware.net> Ken- Wednesday, June 22, 2005, 9:51:53 AM, you wrote: KR> In fact, you should go over there and download the latest (Draft 004) KR> specification so you can see how the globals/etc. are used. You'll see the It would be nice if the group weren't quite so private. Is there some reason why the specification is unavailable even to look at without joining the group? To my mind that defeats the purpose of creating a standard... -- -Mark Wieder mwieder at ahsoftware.net From jacque at hyperactivesw.com Wed Jun 22 13:25:37 2005 From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay) Date: Wed, 22 Jun 2005 12:25:37 -0500 Subject: ANN Daily Crytoquote In-Reply-To: References: <20050622142438.F16569300EB@mail.runrev.com> Message-ID: <42B99F11.3090304@hyperactivesw.com> On 6/22/05 11:07 AM, Jim Hurley wrote: > The big problem with the decoder is the size of the dictionary (61,000 > entries)--much too big. Many of the words you will not recognize. > Anyone know of a more reasonable dictionary? I don't know which dictionary you are using, but my Boggle game uses the FRELI word list, which is free and unrestricted for anyone's use. It comes in at 557K. I store it as a .gz compressed custom property and decompress it into RAM when Boggle opens. This saves a great deal on disk size. FRELI is here: Since I didn't need the parts of speech, I used a regular expression (using BBEdit) to remove those before storing the file. That also decreased its size considerably. -- Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com From b.xavier at internet.lu Wed Jun 22 13:28:08 2005 From: b.xavier at internet.lu (MisterX) Date: Wed, 22 Jun 2005 19:28:08 +0200 Subject: background groups issues In-Reply-To: <42B98F43.6070305@hyperactivesw.com> Message-ID: <20050622164632.E2D3A9300E5@mail.runrev.com> that's how i put it in my first mail. However the layer is not correct thereafter. What else is not? Not a solution IMOHO... But the only rev-"correct" way this way... the extra properties i mentioned would be better... Xavier > -----Original Message----- > From: use-revolution-bounces at lists.runrev.com > [mailto:use-revolution-bounces at lists.runrev.com] On Behalf Of > J. Landman Gay > Sent: Wednesday, June 22, 2005 18:18 > To: How to use Revolution > Subject: Re: background groups issues > > On 6/22/05 10:03 AM, MisterX wrote: > > > Example: create stack, create a bg group 1, create a bg grp 2. > > > > Now create cards... No probs, all is replicated. > > > > If you go back to cd 1 and create a new bg group then > > - it's not in the other cards you made prev. > > - if you create new cards, you have 3 bgs but previous bgs > still have > > 2. Sort the stack by anything, you got a big bg mess ;) > > This is correct behavior. Revolution does not assume that a > new group should be placed on existing cards. You have to > place it yourself. I wouldn't want it any other way. However, > any new cards will inherit a background group. > > -- > Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com > HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com > _______________________________________________ > use-revolution mailing list > use-revolution at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage > your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution > From drjohn at wellminds.org Wed Jun 22 13:29:44 2005 From: drjohn at wellminds.org (John R.Brauer) Date: Wed, 22 Jun 2005 12:29:44 -0500 Subject: Aaaaah, now I get it In-Reply-To: <20050622145750.29D4D930117@mail.runrev.com> References: <20050622145750.29D4D930117@mail.runrev.com> Message-ID: <2e262ceb766b0f51766c2e4c872951ba@wellminds.org> Yes, I would love to see your newbie intro to tabbed fields. Sincerely, John R. Brauer, Psy.D. Clinical Psychologist From b.xavier at internet.lu Wed Jun 22 13:33:13 2005 From: b.xavier at internet.lu (MisterX) Date: Wed, 22 Jun 2005 19:33:13 +0200 Subject: compileIt for revolution? In-Reply-To: <1EDE423A-4757-453D-8B02-BA4949388386@danshafer.com> Message-ID: <20050622165136.B64F7930157@mail.runrev.com> > Transcript/Rev aren't a general-purpose environment. There's > a whole class of apps for which they are ideally suited. > There are also many for which it's not the right tool. I'm in > favor of continuing to make it do what it does do better and better. > > I suspect you are, too, so I'm not being contrary here, just > clarifying. > but Dan, adding a external (with just a new transcript handler or function bridges that gap! Isn't that important marketing or userability wise? Best Xavier From b.xavier at internet.lu Wed Jun 22 13:38:30 2005 From: b.xavier at internet.lu (MisterX) Date: Wed, 22 Jun 2005 19:38:30 +0200 Subject: [ANN2] Correction Patch for Rev 2.6 Answer Dialog In-Reply-To: <6477305E-32D7-4BF4-A212-1EA062DDAE69@sosmartsoftware.com> Message-ID: <20050622165648.D1EC99300F5@mail.runrev.com> Eric, I got a half dozen more fixes like those. Want 'em? i found one more today, still looking for the way to patch it ;) cheers X > -----Original Message----- > From: use-revolution-bounces at lists.runrev.com > [mailto:use-revolution-bounces at lists.runrev.com] On Behalf Of > Eric Chatonet > Sent: Wednesday, June 22, 2005 10:24 > To: How to use Revolution > Cc: Runtime Revolution Support > Subject: [ANN2] Correction Patch for Rev 2.6 Answer Dialog > > Hi everyone, > > This morning (GMT time), I posted the following mail to the list: > > > Lately, I followed the thread about the Answer dialog weird > behaviour > > with Rev 2.6. > > In fact, the dontwrap of the field displaying the prompt is > sometimes > > set (leaved) to false: this depends on the width of the > window or the > > width of the buttons set. > > So, I wrote a correction patch: > > > > Just paste in the message box: > > go url "http://www.sosmartsoftware.com/downloads/AnswerPatch26.rev" > > And enjoy :-) > > > > cc to Runtime Revolution Support for information. > > Heather replied me quickly asking me to post the patch stack > on Rev Online. > So I did it: > Now, the stack patch is also available on Rev Online (user: > So Smart Software - category: Utilities) > > Best Regards from Paris, > > Eric Chatonet. > ---------------------------------------------------------------- > So Smart Software > > For institutions, companies and associations Built-to-order > applications: management, multimedia, internet, etc. > Windows, Mac OS and Linux... With the French touch > > Free plugins and tutorials on my website > ---------------------------------------------------------------- > Web site http://www.sosmartsoftware.com/ > Email eric.chatonet at sosmartsoftware.com/ > Phone 33 (0)1 43 31 77 62 > Mobile 33 (0)6 20 74 50 86 > ---------------------------------------------------------------- > > > _______________________________________________ > use-revolution mailing list > use-revolution at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage > your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution > From M.Lange at ed.ac.uk Wed Jun 22 13:38:18 2005 From: M.Lange at ed.ac.uk (Marielle Lange) Date: Wed, 22 Jun 2005 18:38:18 +0100 Subject: Mac vs PC .csv files Message-ID: <1119461898.42b9a20ad4159@staffmail.ed.ac.uk> >I have been ask by a friend on a PC to send him some files in .csv >format. When I do, he complains that the returns are missing. I >guess I am still a bit unclear on this difference between platforms. >As I understand it the Mac uses LF for a delimiter, and the PC uses >CR. When I end the lines with return, it does not end up as a CR in >the output file. Is there a simple way to specify an end to my lines >that is compatible with all platforms for .csv files that are read by >programs other than Rev? Hi Dennis, No there is no way to specify your end-of-lines to be cross-platform as expects different characters to act as an end of line. Yes, you can easily have your friend read your text file edited on a mac on a PC. Different end of line conversion programs can also be found for each platform. For instance, if my memory is exact, the excellent Notetab light (http://www.notetab.com/ntl.php) does that for you. Alternatively, you can use a similar utility on your machine and save your file in PC format. More information at: Marielle From mikeythek at gmail.com Wed Jun 22 13:38:33 2005 From: mikeythek at gmail.com (Mikey) Date: Wed, 22 Jun 2005 13:38:33 -0400 Subject: What causes the Documentation stack to fail? Message-ID: <9b408d8e05062210385aa8c97a@mail.gmail.com> I can regularly make the Documentation stack fail to show items that I'm searching for, but I don't understand what causes it. For example, I was messing around with a stack this afternoon, and I wanted to check something out about the substacks property. So I went to the documentation stack, and typed in "substack" in the filter dialog. The list was reduced, but the substacks property detail was never displayed. I had to quit RR in order to fix the problem. After several iterations I'm completely baffled. -- http://taoof4d.blogspot.com http://4dwishlist.blogspot.com On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth On the second day, God created the oceans. On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours, and did a little diving. And God said, "This is good." From b.xavier at internet.lu Wed Jun 22 13:43:32 2005 From: b.xavier at internet.lu (MisterX) Date: Wed, 22 Jun 2005 19:43:32 +0200 Subject: Principles for User-Interface Design In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20050622170150.148D19300F5@mail.runrev.com> "WELL, isn't THAT special?" - the church lady from Sat. Night Live ;) i once called MS support - landed with a Parisian Support manager- My Applescript with MoftWord return error x. What does x mean? (x was a number i cant remember). All i got was - that's a mac problem not word... Since then, they dont get any more support issues from me. I encourage everyone to do the same so they keep the buggiest software available! cheers Xavier > -----Original Message----- > From: use-revolution-bounces at lists.runrev.com > [mailto:use-revolution-bounces at lists.runrev.com] On Behalf Of > Judy Perry > Sent: Wednesday, June 22, 2005 19:19 > To: How to use Revolution > Subject: Re: Principles for User-Interface Design > > I especially got a kick out of reading what he had to say > about user-configurable UIs and MS Word 6 for Mac. > > Basically, his take was that user-configurable UIs are a > TERRIBLE idea but, that in the case of Word 6 for Mac, the UI > was already such a total piece of crap that anything that a > user could do to "screw it up" with custom configuration > could only be a step up. > > ;-) > > Judy > > On Wed, 22 Jun 2005, Jon wrote: > > > If you want a real kick in the UI pants, check out the late Jef > > Raskin's book called The Humane Interface. His ideas are radical > > enough that they cannot be implemented in most development > > environments, but they are worth considering. > > _______________________________________________ > use-revolution mailing list > use-revolution at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage > your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution > From mikeythek at gmail.com Wed Jun 22 13:50:07 2005 From: mikeythek at gmail.com (Mikey) Date: Wed, 22 Jun 2005 13:50:07 -0400 Subject: restoring default script colors Message-ID: <9b408d8e050622105019e723bd@mail.gmail.com> What does it take to restore the default script editor colors? I apparently screwed with mine and need to undo that moment of incredulity. Also, is there a way to do it without hosing other settings? -- http://taoof4d.blogspot.com http://4dwishlist.blogspot.com On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth On the second day, God created the oceans. On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours, and did a little diving. And God said, "This is good." From 3mcgrath at adelphia.net Wed Jun 22 13:51:29 2005 From: 3mcgrath at adelphia.net (Thomas McGrath III) Date: Wed, 22 Jun 2005 13:51:29 -0400 Subject: Principles for User-Interface Design In-Reply-To: <20050622170150.148D19300F5@mail.runrev.com> References: <20050622170150.148D19300F5@mail.runrev.com> Message-ID: X positively evil ! ;-) T On Jun 22, 2005, at 1:43 PM, MisterX wrote: > > "WELL, isn't THAT special?" > - the church lady from Sat. Night Live ;) > > i once called MS support - landed with a Parisian Support > manager- My Applescript with MoftWord return error x. What does > x mean? (x was a number i cant remember). > > All i got was - that's a mac problem not word... > > Since then, they dont get any more support issues from me. > I encourage everyone to do the same so they keep the buggiest > software available! > > cheers > Xavier > >> -----Original Message----- >> From: use-revolution-bounces at lists.runrev.com >> [mailto:use-revolution-bounces at lists.runrev.com] On Behalf Of >> Judy Perry >> Sent: Wednesday, June 22, 2005 19:19 >> To: How to use Revolution >> Subject: Re: Principles for User-Interface Design >> >> I especially got a kick out of reading what he had to say >> about user-configurable UIs and MS Word 6 for Mac. >> >> Basically, his take was that user-configurable UIs are a >> TERRIBLE idea but, that in the case of Word 6 for Mac, the UI >> was already such a total piece of crap that anything that a >> user could do to "screw it up" with custom configuration >> could only be a step up. >> >> ;-) >> >> Judy >> >> On Wed, 22 Jun 2005, Jon wrote: >> >>> If you want a real kick in the UI pants, check out the late Jef >>> Raskin's book called The Humane Interface. His ideas are radical >>> enough that they cannot be implemented in most development >>> environments, but they are worth considering. >> >> _______________________________________________ >> use-revolution mailing list >> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage >> your subscription preferences: >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution >> > > _______________________________________________ > use-revolution mailing list > use-revolution at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution > > Thomas J. McGrath III SCS 1000 Killarney Dr. Pittsburgh, PA 15234 412-885-8541 From jperryl at ecs.fullerton.edu Wed Jun 22 13:53:50 2005 From: jperryl at ecs.fullerton.edu (Judy Perry) Date: Wed, 22 Jun 2005 10:53:50 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Aaaaah, now I get it In-Reply-To: <2e262ceb766b0f51766c2e4c872951ba@wellminds.org> Message-ID: You've all got me curious: I've got such a thing up at both the Rev-Ed wiki and in RevOnline (username: JudyPerry). It even has (on the "Weapons" tab) a button for downloading a PDF. Except that it the coding is not optimized for very new-newbies, what would you like to see added/changed? Thanks, Judy On Wed, 22 Jun 2005, John R.Brauer wrote: > Yes, I would love to see your newbie intro to tabbed fields. From M.Lange at ed.ac.uk Wed Jun 22 13:54:21 2005 From: M.Lange at ed.ac.uk (Marielle Lange) Date: Wed, 22 Jun 2005 18:54:21 +0100 Subject: No entry in Window's task bar Message-ID: <1119462861.42b9a5cdc56ef@staffmail.ed.ac.uk> > Should I bugzilla this? It makes it hard to make a multi-media > application that plays nice in Windows. >What I have done for my graphic stacks is to have a main stack that is >the startup/splash stack with a title bar with the other windows as >substacks of this main stack and then when the splash stack (which is >in the task bar) is brought to the front have a script hide it 'and' >bring the appropriate substacks to the front. >That should do the trick. Hi Tom, Yes, it does the trick neatly. I ran into a similar problem with the teacher manual (http://tinyurl.com/btylm) and solved it as you suggest (but kept had the mainstack initially visible as I used it to ask for a user name, to be used later on in the demos). Marielle From b.xavier at internet.lu Wed Jun 22 14:04:06 2005 From: b.xavier at internet.lu (MisterX) Date: Wed, 22 Jun 2005 20:04:06 +0200 Subject: No entry in Window's task bar In-Reply-To: <0D34DE1D-400F-4246-ABBA-80D0F59AAC4C@sosmartsoftware.com> Message-ID: <20050622172224.9BABD93005E@mail.runrev.com> Eric, Excelent trick. Hey, that rhymes! I've complained about this previously and was ignored. I'll give you a max of 5 votes possible (;() for the bugzilla if it you dont get a duplicate bugzilla http://support.runrev.com/bugdatabase/show_bug.cgi?id=2354 uh, no, Tuv saw it as dup of http://support.runrev.com/bugdatabase/show_bug.cgi?id=1744 uh no, it's not... is it not clear? http://support.runrev.com/bugdatabase/show_bug.cgi?id=2354 reopened! I might have already put that into a bugzilla already though but already did my daily time for bz today tough . I know i've written to Scott years ago and might have complained to Kevin about this as well. Windows users are not very "enchanted" with some PC compatibility or quality issues AFAIK and Nobody has shown as much care as i do to point it out - yet always rejected by singled-OS minded macusers. if you haven't tried the other side, how can you criticize it so easily. I know both worlds now, i also see one-OS blindness a lot... In the least the way Rev was not windows tested as a "regular" win32 power-user would... Here's the proof this is not just garbage i talk about - all i say usually means a lot, despite my way of saying it - some catch it - some really dont even look... But it's up to the reader to be aware of the concequences of reading inside what i mean... Apparently, i can't get it to sink in... http://support.runrev.com/bugdatabase/show_bug.cgi?id=2362 http://support.runrev.com/bugdatabase/show_bug.cgi?id=1476 http://support.runrev.com/bugdatabase/show_bug.cgi?id=2334 (OT) http://support.runrev.com/bugdatabase/show_bug.cgi?id=1299 even this is a problem http://support.runrev.com/bugdatabase/show_bug.cgi?id=2340 Waiting for Longhorn so that Rev fix windows 2000 problems is unfair (or unacceptable) when the higher proportion of clients affected are PC users (or their clients!) that probably still use NT 4 (GUI somewhat OK), or windows 2000/XP/2003 (GUI not 100% ok). And i dont mean engine problems alone - a win-compatible GUI would be nice - like in the menus, the drag-window-content-on, refresh problems, color problems, and some more. Maybe you can vote for my bugs too... Not hard to find... cheers Xavier > -----Original Message----- > From: use-revolution-bounces at lists.runrev.com > [mailto:use-revolution-bounces at lists.runrev.com] On Behalf Of > Eric Chatonet > Sent: Wednesday, June 22, 2005 16:52 > To: How to use Revolution > Subject: Re: No entry in Window's task bar > > Hi Peter, > > Normal behaviour at the moment :-) > You could try, as a workaround, to keep a visible window with > its titlebar but of-screen (-1000,-1000) as a signal for Windows... > > Le 22 juin 05 ? 16:45, Peter T. Evensen a ?crit : > > > When I run my standalone, there is no entry for the program in the > > Windows task bar. Mark Waddingham (I think it was) said this was > > because my Windows don't have title bars. While this is > true (all my > > windows are graphical in nature), it seems that for a standalone > > SOMETHING should appear in the task bar. If I bring any other > > application to the front, I cannot get back to my Revolution > > standalone. > > > > Has anyone else run into this? If so, how did you get around it? > > I have hidden windows with title bars, but they don't seem > to affect > > things. > > > > Should I bugzilla this? It makes it hard to make a multi-media > > application that plays nice in Windows. > > Best Regards from Paris, > > Eric Chatonet. > ---------------------------------------------------------------- > So Smart Software > > For institutions, companies and associations Built-to-order > applications: management, multimedia, internet, etc. > Windows, Mac OS and Linux... With the French touch > > Free plugins and tutorials on my website > ---------------------------------------------------------------- > Web site http://www.sosmartsoftware.com/ > Email eric.chatonet at sosmartsoftware.com/ > Phone 33 (0)1 43 31 77 62 > Mobile 33 (0)6 20 74 50 86 > ---------------------------------------------------------------- > > _______________________________________________ > use-revolution mailing list > use-revolution at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage > your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution > From M.Lange at ed.ac.uk Wed Jun 22 14:20:23 2005 From: M.Lange at ed.ac.uk (Marielle Lange) Date: Wed, 22 Jun 2005 19:20:23 +0100 Subject: Bug with background groups Message-ID: <1119464423.42b9abe7eb9aa@staffmail.ed.ac.uk> Hi Ton, When such things happen to me, that's usually when I created a group, then added the labels afterwards (i.e., the labels are on the same page, eventually inside the group boundary, but not actually part of the group). Make sure you are in "select grouped" mode, then click "edit group" to check the content of your group. If the labels are not there, click again on "edit group" so to finish up with editing, select all your labels, use the shortcut for cut (ctr-X), select your group, select edit group, paste your labels (ctrl-V). This should do it. Marielle > I'm using RR 2.6 on Tiger. > > I've created a bunch of fields and labels to give a description to > the user on what to put in those fields. > Then I grouped all items and checked the "behave like a background" > in the property inspector. > > When I create a new card, all fields, popup menu's etc. are copied to > the new card, but the labels are gone... From scott at tactilemedia.com Wed Jun 22 14:32:36 2005 From: scott at tactilemedia.com (Scott Rossi) Date: Wed, 22 Jun 2005 11:32:36 -0700 Subject: Flash Users? Message-ID: Any developers on the list knowledgeable about Flash at all, specifically loading dynamic content? Please contact off-list. Thanks & Regards, Scott Rossi Creative Director Tactile Media, Multimedia & Design ----- E: scott at tactilemedia.com W: http://www.tactilemedia.com From tkuypers at pandora.be Wed Jun 22 14:46:10 2005 From: tkuypers at pandora.be (Ton Kuypers) Date: Wed, 22 Jun 2005 20:46:10 +0200 Subject: Bug with background groups In-Reply-To: <1119464423.42b9abe7eb9aa@staffmail.ed.ac.uk> References: <1119464423.42b9abe7eb9aa@staffmail.ed.ac.uk> Message-ID: <054A78CD-BBD1-4BFE-B51E-7042E3DC121D@pandora.be> The problem was indeed created by myself... I've created a small plugin to quickly add fields and corresponding labels to a stack. Very easy and quick, when setting up a new stack containing a lot of fields, but I forgot to set that property for the labels. Now it's all fixed and the backgrounds with the labels work fine, thank you all. Rregards, Ton Kuypers Digital Media Partners bvba Tel. +32 (0)477 / 739 530 Fax +32 (0)14 / 71 03 04 http://www.dmp-int.com From b.xavier at internet.lu Wed Jun 22 14:50:12 2005 From: b.xavier at internet.lu (MisterX) Date: Wed, 22 Jun 2005 20:50:12 +0200 Subject: Flash Users? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20050622180830.C6E549300EB@mail.runrev.com> please define which dynamic content... > -----Original Message----- > From: use-revolution-bounces at lists.runrev.com > [mailto:use-revolution-bounces at lists.runrev.com] On Behalf Of > Scott Rossi > Sent: Wednesday, June 22, 2005 20:33 > To: How to use Revolution > Subject: Flash Users? > > Any developers on the list knowledgeable about Flash at all, > specifically loading dynamic content? Please contact off-list. > > Thanks & Regards, > > Scott Rossi > Creative Director > Tactile Media, Multimedia & Design > ----- > E: scott at tactilemedia.com > W: http://www.tactilemedia.com > > _______________________________________________ > use-revolution mailing list > use-revolution at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage > your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution > From revlist at cableone.net Wed Jun 22 14:59:51 2005 From: revlist at cableone.net (Chris Sheffield) Date: Wed, 22 Jun 2005 12:59:51 -0600 Subject: revCopyFile under Tiger Message-ID: Here's an stupid thing that I'm hoping someone can help with. When using revCopyFile under 10.4.1, I'm getting the annoying sound that plays whenever you move/copy a file or folder to another location in the Finder. In my opinion, revCopyFile should not play that sound, but I'm sure it does just cause it uses system services to do the copy. Anyone found a way to make that sound not play? Preferably without having to disable something in the OS. What I'm doing is making a little backup utility, and copying files like that with that sound playing possibly hundreds of times is going to be *really* annoying, to say the least. Using Rev 2.6, btw. Thanks, Chris ------------------------------------------ Chris Sheffield Read Naturally The Fluency Company http://www.readnaturally.com ------------------------------------------ From ridge11103 at btinternet.com Wed Jun 22 15:12:21 2005 From: ridge11103 at btinternet.com (John Ridge) Date: Wed, 22 Jun 2005 20:12:21 +0100 Subject: Tab Fields: Ahhhhaaaahhhhh Now I get it. In-Reply-To: Message-ID: on 22/6/05 5:50 pm, Kaveh Bazargan wrote : At 12:42 -0400 22/6/05, Jon wrote: >Bob: > >Since I'm not sure what you mean, SURE, why not write an intro! Yes please. Me too. :-) ****************** Absolutely! Second the emotion... -- From rev at armbase.com Wed Jun 22 15:16:09 2005 From: rev at armbase.com (Bob Hartley) Date: Wed, 22 Jun 2005 20:16:09 +0100 Subject: Aaaaah, now I get it In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: You wrote: Hi Judy Well I must say I could not have done it better myself. I would recommend that all interested haev a look at this instead. The only differnce in my example is that I had all tabs on one card. Then I had tabs called Research Bibliography Notes Links Then I had groups of objects called Research Bibliography Notes Links So by naming the groups of objects (fields, labels, buttons etc) the same as the tab I could use the script in the tabs-group..... on menuPick chosenTab, previousTab lock screen show group chosenTab hide group previousTab end menuPick All the best Bob > You've all got me curious: > > I've got such a thing up at both the Rev-Ed wiki and in RevOnline > (username: JudyPerry). > > It even has (on the "Weapons" tab) a button for downloading a PDF. > > Except that it the coding is not optimized for very new-newbies, what > would you like to see added/changed? > > Thanks, > > Judy > > On Wed, 22 Jun 2005, John R.Brauer wrote: > > > Yes, I would love to see your newbie intro to tabbed fields. > > _______________________________________________ use-revolution mailing > list use-revolution at lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, > unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution > From bob.earp at ashford.ca Wed Jun 22 15:14:12 2005 From: bob.earp at ashford.ca (Robert J. Earp) Date: Wed, 22 Jun 2005 12:14:12 -0700 Subject: Latest version of Revolution ? In-Reply-To: References: <42B88FD0.6060706@ashford.ca> Message-ID: <6.1.2.0.2.20050622120723.027a0500@mail.ashford.ca> Hey Dan, before anything else, thanks for an excellent couple of days. I just wish it had been longer, but then again we'd both be bankrupt !! Yes, I know about the "Check for Updates" but I was hoping somebody from Rev would pick up on my (maybe too) subtle hint at putting the bloody revision number on at least the ftp site files AND the "About" box. In Richard's words, just another coding convention, at least in my world if not Dar's ;-) I had a feeling that we could easily overwhelm Kevin & Co. with requests, but I also felt that a lot of folks did not know about the bug fix version. Oh well, just a thought. best, Bob... At 04:15 PM 21/06/2005 -0700, Dan Shafer wrote: >Bob.... > >Can't you just use the "Check for Updates..." option under Help menu >and find out if you have the latest and greatest? > >Dan > >On Jun 21, 2005, at 3:08 PM, Robert J. Earp wrote: > >>This may seem a silly question, but what is the latest revision of >>Revolution ? >> >>I heard that a bug fix version had been recently released a little >>while after 2.6 was released. I don't know the timing of the bug >>fix release, and I may have already got the latest version (it was >>a few days between v2.6 release announcement and me downloading it). >>On checking the RunRev ftp site (ftp://ftp.runrev.com/pub/ >>revolution/downloads/distributions/current/) it looks like the >>2.6-1.i386 is the latest there, but the properties box on my WinXP >>version says its 2.6.5.91 >> >>Can somebody please shed some light on the version numbering please ? >> >>Of course I'm guessing at the version number of the ftp site as it >>actually does not tell you what it is for the revsetup.exe file, >>just the .rpm file. Ahem.... maybe this could be easily fixed ;-) >> >>many thanks, Bob... >> >>-- >>Robert J. Earp - Ashford Training Technologies* >>*18059 21A Avenue, South Surrey, British Columbia, Canada. V3S 9V7 >>T:(1)604 541 1662 Cel:(1)604 612 6688 F:(1)604 541 1686 >> >> >>-- >>No virus found in this outgoing message. >>Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. >>Version: 7.0.323 / Virus Database: 267.7.10/24 - Release Date: >>21/06/2005 >> >>_______________________________________________ >>use-revolution mailing list >>use-revolution at lists.runrev.com >>Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >>subscription preferences: >>http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution >> > > Robert J. Earp - Ashford Training Technologies 18059 21A Avenue, South Surrey, British Columbia, Canada. V3S 9V7 T:(604) 541 1662 Cel: (604) 612 6688 Fx: (604) 541 1686 From jperryl at ecs.fullerton.edu Wed Jun 22 15:19:36 2005 From: jperryl at ecs.fullerton.edu (Judy Perry) Date: Wed, 22 Jun 2005 12:19:36 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Aaaaah, now I get it In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Bob, Go to the last tab in my stack. It brings up a substack with tabs on a single card; the tabs hide and show groups of things (mostly buttons IIRC). Thanks for the feedback and kind words! Judy On Wed, 22 Jun 2005, Bob Hartley wrote: > You wrote: > Hi Judy > > Well I must say I could not have done it better myself. I would recommend > that all interested haev a look at this instead. > > The only differnce in my example is that I had all tabs on one card. Then I > had tabs called > Research > Bibliography > Notes > Links > > Then I had groups of objects called > Research > Bibliography > Notes > Links > > So by naming the groups of objects (fields, labels, buttons etc) the same as > the tab I could use the script in the tabs-group..... > > on menuPick chosenTab, previousTab > lock screen show group chosenTab > hide group previousTab > end menuPick > > All the best > Bob > > > > > > You've all got me curious: > > > > I've got such a thing up at both the Rev-Ed wiki and in RevOnline > > (username: JudyPerry). > > > > It even has (on the "Weapons" tab) a button for downloading a PDF. > > > > Except that it the coding is not optimized for very new-newbies, what > > would you like to see added/changed? > > > > Thanks, > > > > Judy > > > > On Wed, 22 Jun 2005, John R.Brauer wrote: > > > > > Yes, I would love to see your newbie intro to tabbed fields. > > > > _______________________________________________ use-revolution mailing > > list use-revolution at lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, > > unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution > > > _______________________________________________ > use-revolution mailing list > use-revolution at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution > From b.xavier at internet.lu Wed Jun 22 15:20:52 2005 From: b.xavier at internet.lu (MisterX) Date: Wed, 22 Jun 2005 21:20:52 +0200 Subject: revCopyFile under Tiger In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20050622183919.3AD14930165@mail.runrev.com> Chris, And what happens when you flush the garbage ? ROTFL - no offense - just having a great holliday in cyber-land! :) sorry, couldn't resist the memory of old Mac Control panels' inference field of GUI distortions when played as practical jokes on clueless PC users... Like a Mac puking when it ejects a diskette ;) It was so "superb" in the 80's to do that to a PC user... Today, as a PC user, if a mac could impress me, i'd be impressed! ;( i've switched over for the pay and more serious users. Lest i get to keep my fun-face off work ;) Just curious, have you checked your OSX appearance/behavior or feedback control panels? No matter what the OS, i dont thing this is standard RevWrongDoing of any sort... No matter how bad their RevCopy can be (which i've analized in a previous maillist entry). IOWs, do you own if you want long-term reliability and more options... unless it was changed since 2.5, the revcopy for mac uses AppleScripts so these are affected sometimes by control panels (as was theory in MacOS)... So, isn't it superb to see this happen on mac users 20 years after ? ;) Hope i got the nail - this would be OS-blindfolded - bug hinting now ;) cheers Gzaviee (as pronounced ;) > -----Original Message----- > From: use-revolution-bounces at lists.runrev.com > [mailto:use-revolution-bounces at lists.runrev.com] On Behalf Of > Chris Sheffield > Sent: Wednesday, June 22, 2005 21:00 > To: How to use Revolution > Subject: revCopyFile under Tiger > > Here's an stupid thing that I'm hoping someone can help with. > > When using revCopyFile under 10.4.1, I'm getting the annoying > sound that plays whenever you move/copy a file or folder to > another location in the Finder. In my opinion, revCopyFile > should not play that sound, but I'm sure it does just cause > it uses system services to do the copy. > > Anyone found a way to make that sound not play? Preferably > without having to disable something in the OS. What I'm > doing is making a little backup utility, and copying files > like that with that sound playing possibly hundreds of times > is going to be *really* annoying, to say the least. > > Using Rev 2.6, btw. > > Thanks, > Chris > > > ------------------------------------------ > Chris Sheffield > Read Naturally > The Fluency Company > http://www.readnaturally.com > ------------------------------------------ > > > _______________________________________________ > use-revolution mailing list > use-revolution at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage > your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution > From rev at armbase.com Wed Jun 22 15:23:13 2005 From: rev at armbase.com (Bob Hartley) Date: Wed, 22 Jun 2005 20:23:13 +0100 Subject: Aaaaah, now I get it In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: You wrote: Hi Judy > You've all got me curious: > > I've got such a thing up at both the Rev-Ed wiki and in RevOnline > (username: JudyPerry). > Where is the rev-ed wiki? cheers bob From vokey at uleth.ca Wed Jun 22 15:30:13 2005 From: vokey at uleth.ca (Dr.John R.Vokey) Date: Wed, 22 Jun 2005 13:30:13 -0600 Subject: use-revolution Digest, Vol 21, Issue 125 In-Reply-To: <20050622155122.E2324930105@mail.runrev.com> References: <20050622155122.E2324930105@mail.runrev.com> Message-ID: It seems to me that the issue of speed applies mostly to the (mathematical) manipulation of numerical arrays; we need a complete matrix algebra package as part of the engine. If we had such, I suspect that virtually all of the desire for CompileIt!, and complaints about speed, would be vitiated. On 22-Jun-05, at 9:51 AM, use-revolution-request at lists.runrev.com wrote: > Well, from what I see here is a business opportunity. > > If everyone that is interested in achieving this (and willing to pay). > Then I would suggest a group should be formed andcreate a well defined > set a specifications. > > I am sure that Chipp at Altuit or someone else would be able to > produce the much desired solution but for a price. > > This would be the quickest way of getting exactly what is being asked > for in the shortest period of time. > > I would be glad to coordinate (off the list ) creating the product > specifications and then putting it out to bid. > > ...any takers? > > Please contact me off the list. > > regards, > > Glen > -- John R. Vokey, PhD Professor B.E.R.G. - Behaviour and Evolution Research Group Micro-Cognition Laboratory Department of Psychology & Neuroscience University of Lethbridge Lethbridge, Alberta T1K 3M4 CANADA (403) 329-2409 office/lab (403) 329-2555 FAX From ridge11103 at btinternet.com Wed Jun 22 15:33:09 2005 From: ridge11103 at btinternet.com (John Ridge) Date: Wed, 22 Jun 2005 20:33:09 +0100 Subject: Food Fight - Rev Name Space In-Reply-To: Message-ID: on 22/6/05 5:51 pm, Ken Ray wrote : Both you and Paul Looney have suggested that a registry start being kept... so if you want to email me with your company prefix (unless you're going to use HAP), I'll start setting up a document and posting it at the Rev Interop group (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/revInterop/). In fact, you should go over there and download the latest (Draft 004) specification so you can see how the globals/etc. are used. You'll see the second part of the string is relative to your product name, so you can use anything you like since the company prefix is unique. Ken Ray ****************************** Thanks for posting this, Ken - I was beginning, thanks to Katir amongst others, to see that there is a real problem here even for garage scripters (sorry, Dan - Inventive Users :-)), and wondered if this particular penny had dropped at RunRev. It seems that the great and good have it in hand. Maybe the rest of us should know about this? Personally I don't have a problem with constraints (my first language was Fortran - whoops, FORTRAN - enough said already). All I need is a justification! At a local, personal level Hungarian makes a lot of sense - it's much the same as putting labels on the drawers in the filing cabinet? At a more global level, now someone has pointed out the beartraps (Xavier, passim), I'd be happy to follow conventions. Especially if the software helps - see Dennis Brown's recent post. Thanks again John -- From kray at sonsothunder.com Wed Jun 22 15:34:39 2005 From: kray at sonsothunder.com (Ken Ray) Date: Wed, 22 Jun 2005 14:34:39 -0500 Subject: Food Fight - Rev Name Space In-Reply-To: <98C34745-AC83-4222-884F-8B0B2D7E35B6@hindu.org> Message-ID: On 6/22/05 12:04 PM, "Sivakatirswami" wrote: > Aloha, Ken: > > Yes "HAP" = Himalayan Academy Publications" > > "Always has... always will, carved in stone." > > So, thanks you.. enter it on the new registry. You got it! Ken Ray Sons of Thunder Software Web site: http://www.sonsothunder.com/ Email: kray at sonsothunder.com From mwieder at ahsoftware.net Wed Jun 22 15:36:25 2005 From: mwieder at ahsoftware.net (Mark Wieder) Date: Wed, 22 Jun 2005 12:36:25 -0700 Subject: Principles for User-Interface Design In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <7315524032.20050622123625@ahsoftware.net> Judy- Wednesday, June 22, 2005, 10:19:05 AM, you wrote: JP> I especially got a kick out of reading what he had to say about JP> user-configurable UIs and MS Word 6 for Mac. ...and not just user-configurable UIs, but also the... um... I forget what Microsoft calls it, but it's the thing where the menus have the most recently-used items rearranged on the fly by default. Kids - don't try this at home. These are clowns^H^H^H^HMicrosoft engineers at work designing your user experience. -- -Mark Wieder mwieder at ahsoftware.net From kray at sonsothunder.com Wed Jun 22 15:39:44 2005 From: kray at sonsothunder.com (Ken Ray) Date: Wed, 22 Jun 2005 14:39:44 -0500 Subject: Food Fight - Rev Name Space In-Reply-To: <1487725458.20050622102626@ahsoftware.net> Message-ID: On 6/22/05 12:26 PM, "Mark Wieder" wrote: > Ken- > > Wednesday, June 22, 2005, 9:51:53 AM, you wrote: > > KR> In fact, you should go over there and download the latest (Draft 004) > KR> specification so you can see how the globals/etc. are used. You'll see the > > It would be nice if the group weren't quite so private. Is there some > reason why the specification is unavailable even to look at without > joining the group? To my mind that defeats the purpose of creating a > standard... Honestly, I didn't know that was the case... I'll see if I can find the setting in Yahoo Groups and turn it off. If you know where I should look, that would be a great time-saver. Thanks, Mark! Ken Ray Sons of Thunder Software Web site: http://www.sonsothunder.com/ Email: kray at sonsothunder.com From kray at sonsothunder.com Wed Jun 22 15:42:50 2005 From: kray at sonsothunder.com (Ken Ray) Date: Wed, 22 Jun 2005 14:42:50 -0500 Subject: Food Fight - Rev Name Space In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On 6/22/05 2:33 PM, "John Ridge" wrote: > Thanks for posting this, Ken - I was beginning, thanks to Katir amongst > others, to see that there is a real problem here even for garage scripters > (sorry, Dan - Inventive Users :-)), and wondered if this particular penny > had dropped at RunRev. It seems that the great and good have it in hand. > Maybe the rest of us should know about this? Were you thinking of some formal [ANN]? I have no problem doing that; just wanted to know what you were thinking... > Personally I don't have a problem with constraints (my first language was > Fortran - whoops, FORTRAN - enough said already). All I need is a > justification! At a local, personal level Hungarian makes a lot of sense - > it's much the same as putting labels on the drawers in the filing cabinet? > At a more global level, now someone has pointed out the beartraps (Xavier, > passim), I'd be happy to follow conventions. Especially if the software > helps - see Dennis Brown's recent post. Sounds good... Ken Ray Sons of Thunder Software Web site: http://www.sonsothunder.com/ Email: kray at sonsothunder.com From vokey at uleth.ca Wed Jun 22 15:45:27 2005 From: vokey at uleth.ca (Dr.John R.Vokey) Date: Wed, 22 Jun 2005 13:45:27 -0600 Subject: compileIt for revolution? In-Reply-To: <20050622163536.2DE66930138@mail.runrev.com> References: <20050622163536.2DE66930138@mail.runrev.com> Message-ID: The simplest possibility for the external route would be to be able to pass (and use) to and from the external, handles to large RAM-based sets of floating-point numbers; that was the solution I used in Hypercard back when the Earth was still cooling, and it worked very well. On 22-Jun-05, at 10:35 AM, use-revolution-request at lists.runrev.com wrote: > I think the issue here is an elegant and efficient way to interface > with externals. If we had this, it would solve both problems. When > I say efficient, I don't mean pass a 100MB array as a text string to > an external that converts it to numbers than does some processing and > converts back to a text string and passes the 100MB back, then the > 100MB is passed again to the external for the next processing > step... NOT the solution! > > Dennis > -- John R. Vokey, PhD Professor B.E.R.G. - Behaviour and Evolution Research Group Micro-Cognition Laboratory Department of Psychology & Neuroscience University of Lethbridge Lethbridge, Alberta T1K 3M4 CANADA (403) 329-2409 office/lab (403) 329-2555 FAX From ridge11103 at btinternet.com Wed Jun 22 15:49:36 2005 From: ridge11103 at btinternet.com (John Ridge) Date: Wed, 22 Jun 2005 20:49:36 +0100 Subject: ANN Daily Crytoquote In-Reply-To: Message-ID: on 22/6/05 5:07 pm, Jim Hurley wrote : This is for those of you programmers with time on your hands. :-) I am still trying to catch up after our magnificent Run Rev conference. ***************** Jim, it's brilliant. I've never seen the idea, but it is great fun - I can understand the addiction. What a great ad for Revolution - while I sympathise with the Heavy Metal fans pleas for seamless XCMDs (pace Dan Shafer), it's surely true that for Rev to take off it's applications like yours that need to be immediately and easily available. Home Stack, anybody? -- From jperryl at ecs.fullerton.edu Wed Jun 22 15:56:30 2005 From: jperryl at ecs.fullerton.edu (Judy Perry) Date: Wed, 22 Jun 2005 12:56:30 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Principles for User-Interface Design In-Reply-To: <7315524032.20050622123625@ahsoftware.net> Message-ID: Mark, Oh yeah! I think that the User Interface Hall of Shame even might have had in it M$'s horrible use of the dancing tabs-on-tabs-on-tabs... they, too, would rearrange on-the-fly, making them totally unusable. Judy On Wed, 22 Jun 2005, Mark Wieder wrote: > ...and not just user-configurable UIs, but also the... um... I forget > what Microsoft calls it, but it's the thing where the menus have the > most recently-used items rearranged on the fly by default. > > Kids - don't try this at home. These are clowns^H^H^H^HMicrosoft > engineers at work designing your user experience. From capellan2000 at yahoo.com Wed Jun 22 16:35:57 2005 From: capellan2000 at yahoo.com (Alejandro Tejada) Date: Wed, 22 Jun 2005 13:35:57 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Principles for User-Interface Design In-Reply-To: <20050622181956.D387F93015B@mail.runrev.com> Message-ID: <20050622203557.51162.qmail@web40528.mail.yahoo.com> on Wed, 22 Jun 2005 Judy Perry wrote: > I especially got a kick out of reading what he had > to say about > user-configurable UIs and MS Word 6 for Mac. > > Basically, his take was that user-configurable UIs > are a TERRIBLE idea > but, that in the case of Word 6 for Mac, the UI was > already such a total > piece of crap that anything that a user could do to > "screw it up" with > custom configuration could only be a step up. Hi Judy, Have you see how "configurable" is the interface of Macromedia FreeHand MX? In the computer classroom, last week, i noticed the most bizarre behavior from FreeHand MX. Every student "done" and "undone" the MX interface at will, so in the end, i had to spend the first 15 minutes every day to return FreeHand to the state of the previous day. And some days, it was necessary to reinstall the program, to revert all changes... :-( I don't know how easy is for other teachers to cope with this situation in computer labs. Fortunately, PhotoShop do not allows this Freedom of GUI, so i do not waste time returning it to a previous state. :-) al Visit my site: http://www.geocities.com/capellan2000/ ____________________________________________________ Yahoo! Sports Rekindle the Rivalries. Sign up for Fantasy Football http://football.fantasysports.yahoo.com From kray at sonsothunder.com Wed Jun 22 16:40:18 2005 From: kray at sonsothunder.com (Ken Ray) Date: Wed, 22 Jun 2005 15:40:18 -0500 Subject: Naming conventions [was: Food Fight] In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On 6/22/05 11:40 AM, "Dennis Brown" wrote: > Thanks for the many replies about naming conventions. So to summarize: > > 1. The cryptic names are not really being pushed to make things > unreadable, but as protection from the deficiencies of Rev. > > (etc.) I guess you could say that... and keep in mind that these "deficiencies" didn't start with Rev - *all* xTalk languages (AFAIK) suffer these same defiencies. So until RunRev does something about it (and based on the Monterey Conference it is on their list of things to address), we have to "make do". The proposed guidelines at the RevInterop group (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/revInterop/) are there to help provide some consistency in naming conventions so we can be as efficient as we can be with the current situation. Honestly, Dennis, you don't have to do anything if you don't want to; if you're only developing your own stuff, you can easily keep your names unique in any way you choose. It's only when you start integrating other people's code or libraries that you might want to consider it. > BTW: My current project (1 stack 1 card) has over 100 globals defined > (many are large arrays) so that I can use a combination of created > scripted groups of objects and common handlers where possible without > needing to pass many arguments. I have to do this awkward thing to > make up for the slow speed of array processing and ironically to make > my scripts maintainable. Wow... sounds like you may be making too much work for yourself. 1 card with 100 globals doesn't seem right to me (but then again I don't know the specifics of your project). If there's some way I can help to optimize your project, please let me know offlist (unless your already sure you've done everything you can). I'd really be interested to know about why arrays are so slow for what you're doing. Ken Ray Sons of Thunder Software Web site: http://www.sonsothunder.com/ Email: kray at sonsothunder.com From eric.miclo at wanadoo.fr Wed Jun 22 16:41:25 2005 From: eric.miclo at wanadoo.fr (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?=C9ric_Miclo?=) Date: Wed, 22 Jun 2005 22:41:25 +0200 Subject: [ANN2] Correction Patch for Rev 2.6 Answer Dialog In-Reply-To: <6477305E-32D7-4BF4-A212-1EA062DDAE69@sosmartsoftware.com> References: <6477305E-32D7-4BF4-A212-1EA062DDAE69@sosmartsoftware.com> Message-ID: Hello Eric, Thanks for your work, it's far more usable now :-) Now? I'm waiting for other corrections of bugs. I consider it should be up to Runtime to squash them and not to let bugs staying around for a while (I don't speak for that specific bug, Mark tried to provide a patch that didn't fully correct the problem). I find Revolution is a great tool and for that reason I'd like it to approach perfection. Best regards, ?rIC Le 22 juin 05 ? 10:24, Eric Chatonet a ?crit : > Hi everyone, > > This morning (GMT time), I posted the following mail to the list: > > >> Lately, I followed the thread about the Answer dialog weird >> behaviour with Rev 2.6. >> In fact, the dontwrap of the field displaying the prompt is >> sometimes set (leaved) to false: this depends on the width of the >> window or the width of the buttons set. >> So, I wrote a correction patch: >> >> Just paste in the message box: >> go url "http://www.sosmartsoftware.com/downloads/AnswerPatch26.rev" >> And enjoy :-) >> >> cc to Runtime Revolution Support for information. >> > > Heather replied me quickly asking me to post the patch stack on Rev > Online. > So I did it: > Now, the stack patch is also available on Rev Online (user: So > Smart Software - category: Utilities) > > Best Regards from Paris, > > Eric Chatonet. > ---------------------------------------------------------------- > So Smart Software > > For institutions, companies and associations > Built-to-order applications: management, multimedia, internet, etc. > Windows, Mac OS and Linux... With the French touch > > Free plugins and tutorials on my website > ---------------------------------------------------------------- > Web site http://www.sosmartsoftware.com/ > Email eric.chatonet at sosmartsoftware.com/ > Phone 33 (0)1 43 31 77 62 > Mobile 33 (0)6 20 74 50 86 > ---------------------------------------------------------------- > > > _______________________________________________ > use-revolution mailing list > use-revolution at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution > > -- My NeXT computer will Be a Mac too! -- From see3d at writeme.com Wed Jun 22 16:47:25 2005 From: see3d at writeme.com (Dennis Brown) Date: Wed, 22 Jun 2005 16:47:25 -0400 Subject: compileIt for revolution? In-Reply-To: References: <20050622163536.2DE66930138@mail.runrev.com> Message-ID: <3D24374E-6AF1-4BCB-8C72-231842EC1F09@writeme.com> John, I actually had a complete matrix algebra package as an external for Hypercard. I know how to use it, because I cut my teeth on APL. I implemented my complex algorithms and state machines in it. The coding was cumbersome, and it was difficult to debug and handle edge conditions, sparse arrays, etc. And to top it all off, it only ran 25% faster than the simple HyperCard stack even though it could crunch numbers 10 times faster. However, I have to admit that it spent a lot of time converting and passing arrays back and forth to HyperCard. A native engine capability might make a big difference if the internal representation could be typed by making sure you only put all the same type numbers into the array, and if the indexes were truly integers. The both matrix and element by element operations could be mixed and we would have the best of both worlds. Dennis On Jun 22, 2005, at 3:30 PM, Dr.John R.Vokey wrote: > It seems to me that the issue of speed applies mostly to the > (mathematical) manipulation of numerical arrays; we need a complete > matrix algebra package as part of the engine. If we had such, I > suspect that virtually all of the desire for CompileIt!, and > complaints about speed, would be vitiated. > > On 22-Jun-05, at 9:51 AM, use-revolution-request at lists.runrev.com > wrote: > > >> Well, from what I see here is a business opportunity. >> >> If everyone that is interested in achieving this (and willing to >> pay). >> Then I would suggest a group should be formed andcreate a well >> defined >> set a specifications. >> >> I am sure that Chipp at Altuit or someone else would be able to >> produce the much desired solution but for a price. >> >> This would be the quickest way of getting exactly what is being asked >> for in the shortest period of time. >> >> I would be glad to coordinate (off the list ) creating the product >> specifications and then putting it out to bid. >> >> ...any takers? >> >> Please contact me off the list. >> >> regards, >> >> Glen On Jun 22, 2005, at 3:45 PM, Dr.John R.Vokey wrote: > The simplest possibility for the external route would be to be able > to pass (and use) to and from the external, handles to large RAM- > based sets of floating-point numbers; that was the solution I used > in Hypercard back when the Earth was still cooling, and it worked > very well. > > On 22-Jun-05, at 10:35 AM, use-revolution-request at lists.runrev.com > wrote: > > >> I think the issue here is an elegant and efficient way to interface >> with externals. If we had this, it would solve both problems. When >> I say efficient, I don't mean pass a 100MB array as a text string to >> an external that converts it to numbers than does some processing and >> converts back to a text string and passes the 100MB back, then the >> 100MB is passed again to the external for the next processing >> step... NOT the solution! >> >> Dennis >> >> > -- > John R. Vokey, PhD > Professor > B.E.R.G. - Behaviour and Evolution Research Group > Micro-Cognition Laboratory > Department of Psychology & Neuroscience > University of Lethbridge > Lethbridge, Alberta T1K 3M4 > CANADA > (403) 329-2409 office/lab > (403) 329-2555 FAX > > _______________________________________________ > use-revolution mailing list > use-revolution at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution > From eric.miclo at wanadoo.fr Wed Jun 22 16:48:59 2005 From: eric.miclo at wanadoo.fr (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?=C9ric_Miclo?=) Date: Wed, 22 Jun 2005 22:48:59 +0200 Subject: The "sheet effect" In-Reply-To: <39014820-78E6-46A8-AB81-8F54A1E78CB3@wanadoo.fr> References: <458dd5644420a29846e6a6fa74be68bc@skynet.be> <39014820-78E6-46A8-AB81-8F54A1E78CB3@wanadoo.fr> Message-ID: <45A9F7CE-FC69-456E-A2DE-7A4523C61D8E@wanadoo.fr> Hello, Is there something new about that? Did somebody post it as a bug in Bugzilla? If not I'll do it. Regards, ?rIC Le 16 juin 05 ? 13:43, ?ric Miclo a ?crit : > Hello Yves, > > Yes, it seems that the sheet windows just appear so fast that you > can't see the "sheet effect" but you can see it when the window is > closed. > I'd think it is a cosmetic bug. You should place a report about it. > > Regards, > > ?rIC > > Le 16 juin 05 ? 12:16, Yves COPPE a ?crit : > > >> Hi list,, >> >> I've sent a msg without answer so I send it again : >> >> >> >> On mac OSX 10.3.9 French version (Panther) >> >> >> No any problem with sheet window in previous version of Revolution. >> >> the new version of Revolution 2.6 >> >> >> when I ask a window to come on the screen (with a script) in the >> "sheet" mode >> >> with the build 91 : it's OK >> with the build 108 : the window DOESN'T come on the screen as a >> sheet but well goes away (when I click a "OK" btn for example) as >> a sheet ... >> >> any idea ??? >> >> >> >> Greetings. >> >> Yves COPPE >> yvescoppe at skynet.be >> >> _______________________________________________ >> use-revolution mailing list >> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >> subscription preferences: >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution >> >> >> > > -- My NeXT computer will Be a Mac too! -- > > > _______________________________________________ > use-revolution mailing list > use-revolution at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution > > -- My NeXT computer will Be a Mac too! -- From ambassador at fourthworld.com Wed Jun 22 16:56:20 2005 From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin) Date: Wed, 22 Jun 2005 13:56:20 -0700 Subject: the := operator (affectation) In-Reply-To: <42B97D53.6060002@sover.net> References: <20050622014737.2008.qmail@web60523.mail.yahoo.com> <22094012-37A8-408E-A841-1D5EE78D6630@danshafer.com> <42B97D53.6060002@sover.net> Message-ID: <42B9D074.1040805@fourthworld.com> Jon wrote: > > > Dan Shafer wrote: > >> (I always found the whole ==, +=, :=, == syntax mess pretty ugly. I >> love the elegance of put 32 into x.) > > > > Elegance, verbosity. Poe-tay-toe, poe-tah-toe... A single-token assignment operator would be a nice OPTION. Those who prefer the traditional form would never need to deal with it, while those of us who are comfortable with it could use it. I see no downside and many upsides as Rev expands the range of people it might appeal to.... -- Richard Gaskin Fourth World Media Corporation ___________________________________________________________ Ambassador at FourthWorld.com http://www.FourthWorld.com From pevensen at siboneylg.com Wed Jun 22 17:04:51 2005 From: pevensen at siboneylg.com (Peter T. Evensen) Date: Wed, 22 Jun 2005 16:04:51 -0500 Subject: the := operator (affectation) In-Reply-To: <42B9D074.1040805@fourthworld.com> References: <20050622014737.2008.qmail@web60523.mail.yahoo.com> <22094012-37A8-408E-A841-1D5EE78D6630@danshafer.com> <42B97D53.6060002@sover.net> <42B9D074.1040805@fourthworld.com> Message-ID: <6.2.1.2.2.20050622160411.19e23e70@exchange.slg.com> I find myself constantly typing "tSomeVariable = 5" and then have to go erase that and type "put 5 into tSomeVariable" At 03:56 PM 6/22/2005, you wrote: >Jon wrote: >> >>Dan Shafer wrote: >> >>>(I always found the whole ==, +=, :=, == syntax mess pretty ugly. I >>>love the elegance of put 32 into x.) >> >>Elegance, verbosity. Poe-tay-toe, poe-tah-toe... > >A single-token assignment operator would be a nice OPTION. Those who >prefer the traditional form would never need to deal with it, while those >of us who are comfortable with it could use it. I see no downside and >many upsides as Rev expands the range of people it might appeal to.... > >-- > Richard Gaskin > Fourth World Media Corporation > ___________________________________________________________ > Ambassador at FourthWorld.com http://www.FourthWorld.com >_______________________________________________ >use-revolution mailing list >use-revolution at lists.runrev.com >Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >subscription preferences: >http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution Peter T. Evensen http://www.PetersRoadToHealth.com 24-hour recorded info hotline: 1-800-624-7671 From yvescoppe at skynet.be Wed Jun 22 17:10:43 2005 From: yvescoppe at skynet.be (Yves COPPE) Date: Wed, 22 Jun 2005 23:10:43 +0200 Subject: The "sheet effect" In-Reply-To: <45A9F7CE-FC69-456E-A2DE-7A4523C61D8E@wanadoo.fr> References: <458dd5644420a29846e6a6fa74be68bc@skynet.be> <39014820-78E6-46A8-AB81-8F54A1E78CB3@wanadoo.fr> <45A9F7CE-FC69-456E-A2DE-7A4523C61D8E@wanadoo.fr> Message-ID: <87a3e1609b2ad1fd9f38b8bda67ed0eb@skynet.be> Le 22-juin-05, ? 22:48, ?ric Miclo a ?crit : > Hello, > > Is there something new about that? > Did somebody post it as a bug in Bugzilla? If not I'll do it. > > Regards, > > ?rIC > > Hi, i've not posted it because I don't feel fine with bugzilla. I'll be glad if you could do it By the way, you must know that the same cosmetic effect occurs with the "drawer" stack : the windows doens't appear correctly but well disappears correctly. I've let it known to Ro Nagey Thanks. Greetings. Yves COPPE yvescoppe at skynet.be From eric.chatonet at sosmartsoftware.com Wed Jun 22 17:11:14 2005 From: eric.chatonet at sosmartsoftware.com (Eric Chatonet) Date: Wed, 22 Jun 2005 23:11:14 +0200 Subject: [ANN2] Correction Patch for Rev 2.6 Answer Dialog In-Reply-To: References: <6477305E-32D7-4BF4-A212-1EA062DDAE69@sosmartsoftware.com> Message-ID: Hi Eric, Thanks for your kind words. Two kinds of "bugs" have to be considered: The first ones come from the engine: we can't do anything except to go to bugzilla :-( The second ones are IDE issues as "was" the Answer Dialog bug, any problem with the property palettes, scripts, preferences and much more. A bug like the Answer Dialog one is very annoying since such a stack may have to be included in stand alones. So it's a bug for the end user too :-( Other ones are "less" annoying since they "only" affect the programmer... It's the reason why I took the time to write this little patch: only a line to put out of a conditional structure and your world is beautiful again ;-) Best Regards from Paris, Eric Chatonet. Le 22 juin 05 ? 22:41, ?ric Miclo a ?crit : > Hello Eric, > > Thanks for your work, it's far more usable now :-) > > Now? I'm waiting for other corrections of bugs. I consider it > should be up to Runtime to squash them and not to let bugs staying > around for a while (I don't speak for that specific bug, Mark tried > to provide a patch that didn't fully correct the problem). > > I find Revolution is a great tool and for that reason I'd like it > to approach perfection. > > Best regards, > > ?rIC > > Le 22 juin 05 ? 10:24, Eric Chatonet a ?crit : > > >> Hi everyone, >> >> This morning (GMT time), I posted the following mail to the list: >> >> >> >>> Lately, I followed the thread about the Answer dialog weird >>> behaviour with Rev 2.6. >>> In fact, the dontwrap of the field displaying the prompt is >>> sometimes set (leaved) to false: this depends on the width of the >>> window or the width of the buttons set. >>> So, I wrote a correction patch: >>> >>> Just paste in the message box: >>> go url "http://www.sosmartsoftware.com/downloads/AnswerPatch26.rev" >>> And enjoy :-) >>> >>> cc to Runtime Revolution Support for information. >>> >>> >> >> Heather replied me quickly asking me to post the patch stack on >> Rev Online. >> So I did it: >> Now, the stack patch is also available on Rev Online (user: So >> Smart Software - category: Utilities) >> >> Best Regards from Paris, >> >> Eric Chatonet. >> ----------------------------- ---------------------------------------------------------------- So Smart Software For institutions, companies and associations Built-to-order applications: management, multimedia, internet, etc. Windows, Mac OS and Linux... With the French touch Free plugins and tutorials on my website ---------------------------------------------------------------- Web site http://www.sosmartsoftware.com/ Email eric.chatonet at sosmartsoftware.com/ Phone 33 (0)1 43 31 77 62 Mobile 33 (0)6 20 74 50 86 ---------------------------------------------------------------- From vokey at uleth.ca Wed Jun 22 17:15:46 2005 From: vokey at uleth.ca (Dr.John R.Vokey) Date: Wed, 22 Jun 2005 15:15:46 -0600 Subject: compileIt for revolution? In-Reply-To: <20050622200805.109539300EE@mail.runrev.com> References: <20050622200805.109539300EE@mail.runrev.com> Message-ID: If you are mostly writing for yourself, you can, of course, use RR to produce a nice GUI, but pass all the time critical computations to, say Matlab (or Octave, Matlab's GNU equivalent) using the shell commands. But then, if that were the case, why not just use Matlab (or Octave) directly? Incidentally, Smile (the free Applescript program writer) has a brilliant math library (OSAX) attached to it that can be called from RR . BTW, APL was my first programming language, too! Perhaps that is why I tend to think of solutions in matrix linear algebra. On 22-Jun-05, at 2:08 PM, use-revolution-request at lists.runrev.com wrote: > John, > > I actually had a complete matrix algebra package as an external for > Hypercard. I know how to use it, because I cut my teeth on APL. I > implemented my complex algorithms and state machines in it. The > coding was cumbersome, and it was difficult to debug and handle edge > conditions, sparse arrays, etc. And to top it all off, it only ran > 25% faster than the simple HyperCard stack even though it could > crunch numbers 10 times faster. However, I have to admit that it > spent a lot of time converting and passing arrays back and forth to > HyperCard. A native engine capability might make a big difference if > the internal representation could be typed by making sure you only > put all the same type numbers into the array, and if the indexes were > truly integers. The both matrix and element by element operations > could be mixed and we would have the best of both worlds. > > Dennis > -- John R. Vokey, PhD Professor B.E.R.G. - Behaviour and Evolution Research Group Micro-Cognition Laboratory Department of Psychology & Neuroscience University of Lethbridge Lethbridge, Alberta T1K 3M4 CANADA (403) 329-2409 office/lab (403) 329-2555 FAX From mikeythek at gmail.com Wed Jun 22 17:24:18 2005 From: mikeythek at gmail.com (Mikey) Date: Wed, 22 Jun 2005 17:24:18 -0400 Subject: the := operator (affectation) In-Reply-To: <6.2.1.2.2.20050622160411.19e23e70@exchange.slg.com> References: <20050622014737.2008.qmail@web60523.mail.yahoo.com> <22094012-37A8-408E-A841-1D5EE78D6630@danshafer.com> <42B97D53.6060002@sover.net> <42B9D074.1040805@fourthworld.com> <6.2.1.2.2.20050622160411.19e23e70@exchange.slg.com> Message-ID: <9b408d8e0506221424794b7130@mail.gmail.com> How is this even a continuing topic of discussion? Hey Japanese - I think Katakana is too complicated. Let's stick to 26 symbols, ok? Yeah. I'd like that next year. Transcript a different language. It isn't Pascal or APL, or Fortran or Cobol or LISP or anything else, and thank goodness for that. Do you actually ask the C++.net people for this special treatment, too? Do they do anything but flame you off the list? I mean - why :=? Why not go for broke and do it the basic way? = can be used for assignment and comparison, and it's less typing, so let's do that. I can see someone coming from C asking for some sort of different syntax (uh, no), but Pascal? Please. Why not just abandon Transcript? Let's just generate a universal interpreter/compiler. Mix syntax, languages and whatever as you choose. No problem. Is it ok if we don't get that implemented before 2.6.2? We have a couple of things slated for 2.6.1 first. -- http://taoof4d.blogspot.com http://4dwishlist.blogspot.com On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth On the second day, God created the oceans. On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours, and did a little diving. And God said, "This is good." From dsc at swcp.com Wed Jun 22 17:32:41 2005 From: dsc at swcp.com (Dar Scott) Date: Wed, 22 Jun 2005 15:32:41 -0600 Subject: compileIt for revolution? In-Reply-To: References: <20050622163536.2DE66930138@mail.runrev.com> Message-ID: <4715a82757d89c263343eadda7db6216@swcp.com> On Jun 22, 2005, at 1:45 PM, Dr.John R.Vokey wrote: > The simplest possibility for the external route would be to be able to > pass (and use) to and from the external, handles to large RAM-based > sets of floating-point numbers; that was the solution I used in > Hypercard back when the Earth was still cooling, and it worked very > well. Would either RPN or the use of external-side variables by name be just as usable to you? Dar -- ********************************************** DSC (Dar Scott Consulting & Dar's Lab) http://www.swcp.com/dsc/ Programming and software ********************************************** From eric.miclo at wanadoo.fr Wed Jun 22 17:37:29 2005 From: eric.miclo at wanadoo.fr (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?=C9ric_Miclo?=) Date: Wed, 22 Jun 2005 23:37:29 +0200 Subject: The "sheet effect" In-Reply-To: <87a3e1609b2ad1fd9f38b8bda67ed0eb@skynet.be> References: <458dd5644420a29846e6a6fa74be68bc@skynet.be> <39014820-78E6-46A8-AB81-8F54A1E78CB3@wanadoo.fr> <45A9F7CE-FC69-456E-A2DE-7A4523C61D8E@wanadoo.fr> <87a3e1609b2ad1fd9f38b8bda67ed0eb@skynet.be> Message-ID: <3F7147F4-D1ED-4180-9A98-FE47193AB8AC@wanadoo.fr> Hello, So I'll post it. Concerning the drawer window it's a little bit more stange: First create a stack and let's call it "Main" and a substack called "Sub". If you set a button's script to: on mouseUp drawer stack "Sub" end mouseUp when clicked nothing happens. If you set another button's script to: on mouseUp show stack "Sub" end mouseUp it appears as a drawer with the drawer effect. If you click on the first button the drawer is closed with the drawer effect and reopens but just popping without the drawer effect. I'll submit both of them. Regards, ?rIC Le 22 juin 05 ? 23:10, Yves COPPE a ?crit : > > Le 22-juin-05, ? 22:48, ?ric Miclo a ?crit : > > >> Hello, >> >> Is there something new about that? >> Did somebody post it as a bug in Bugzilla? If not I'll do it. >> >> Regards, >> >> ?rIC >> >> >> > > Hi, > > i've not posted it because I don't feel fine with bugzilla. > I'll be glad if you could do it > By the way, you must know that the same cosmetic effect occurs with > the "drawer" stack : the windows doens't appear correctly but well > disappears correctly. > > I've let it known to Ro Nagey > > Thanks. > > Greetings. > > Yves COPPE > yvescoppe at skynet.be > _______________________________________________ > use-revolution mailing list > use-revolution at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution > > -- My NeXT computer will Be a Mac too! -- From briany at qldlearning.com Wed Jun 22 17:38:42 2005 From: briany at qldlearning.com (Brian Yennie) Date: Wed, 22 Jun 2005 14:38:42 -0700 Subject: compileIt for revolution? In-Reply-To: <1EDE423A-4757-453D-8B02-BA4949388386@danshafer.com> References: <20050622034955.C8E81930064@mail.runrev.com> <6f32f438ffcc982cdee1d8735624c743@qldlearning.com> <1EDE423A-4757-453D-8B02-BA4949388386@danshafer.com> Message-ID: <0098429800f95fbbbb725daa4ddd8473@qldlearning.com> > Not forgetting, Brian, just discounting. :-D Fair enough. For me, that was the only reason to use CompileIt. Speed of ordinary scripts felt like something I wanted to deal with algorithmically rather than by compiling. After all, compiling the same algorithm was probably going to have less impact than my next processor upgrade! I'm sure there were instances where it was useful, but for me, it was all about writing externals without having to learn C (which I've long since done, but alas...) > I avoided that stuff like the plague. > > Guess I'm a bit of an xtalk purist (or some would say bigot). > Transcript isn't going to be THE solution/language for all problems. > Every time we try to glue something onto it to solve a problem it > wasn't intended to solve, we risk making the stuff it does do easily > and well harder. I agree. > Transcript/Rev aren't a general-purpose environment. There's a whole > class of apps for which they are ideally suited. There are also many > for which it's not the right tool. I'm in favor of continuing to make > it do what it does do better and better. > > I suspect you are, too, so I'm not being contrary here, just > clarifying. I actually do feel the same way. For me, it's mostly a moot point. I write externals in C when I need them, and if I need a lot of them (or heck, more than 1 of them in a project) then I consider other tools. I believe I'm mostly speaking for others (dangerous, I know!) who have expressed a lot of interest in native access to OS routines. I wouldn't mind seeing a new CompileIt!, just because it would be a cool toy and handy for some - but I wouldn't personally rank it very high on the cost vs. benefit scale. I'm not sure where I would fall if I didn't write externals already, though. - Brian From jacque at hyperactivesw.com Wed Jun 22 17:46:11 2005 From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay) Date: Wed, 22 Jun 2005 16:46:11 -0500 Subject: revCopyFile under Tiger In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <42B9DC23.3050708@hyperactivesw.com> On 6/22/05 1:59 PM, Chris Sheffield wrote: > Here's an stupid thing that I'm hoping someone can help with. > > When using revCopyFile under 10.4.1, I'm getting the annoying sound > that plays whenever you move/copy a file or folder to another location > in the Finder. In my opinion, revCopyFile should not play that sound, > but I'm sure it does just cause it uses system services to do the copy. > > Anyone found a way to make that sound not play? Preferably without > having to disable something in the OS. What I'm doing is making a > little backup utility, and copying files like that with that sound > playing possibly hundreds of times is going to be *really* annoying, to > say the least. > > Using Rev 2.6, btw. You could skip the Rev-scripted command, and just make your own. It isn't too hard. Just use "put url into url ". If you need to copy OS X bundles then it gets a little more complex but it sounds like you are only asking about Windows files. -- Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com From jacque at hyperactivesw.com Wed Jun 22 17:49:27 2005 From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay) Date: Wed, 22 Jun 2005 16:49:27 -0500 Subject: revCopyFile under Tiger In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <42B9DCE7.4040609@hyperactivesw.com> On 6/22/05 1:59 PM, Chris Sheffield wrote: > When using revCopyFile under 10.4.1, I'm getting the annoying sound > that plays whenever you move/copy a file or folder to another location > in the Finder. Oops, sorry, you weren't asking about Windows files. You can still use your own copy handlers on Macs though. You'll need to walk through all the contents of any OS X bundles you are copying, creating folders as you go. One thing I'm not sure of is whether permissions ride along; you may need to use a shell() call to set permissions. -- Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com From revdan at danshafer.com Wed Jun 22 17:55:35 2005 From: revdan at danshafer.com (Dan Shafer) Date: Wed, 22 Jun 2005 14:55:35 -0700 Subject: compileIt for revolution? In-Reply-To: <386EA08D-07BE-4754-AB4A-3616B73A9E9F@writeme.com> References: <20050622034955.C8E81930064@mail.runrev.com> <386EA08D-07BE-4754-AB4A-3616B73A9E9F@writeme.com> Message-ID: <1F313085-9777-4720-857A-447ECD1F18C4@danshafer.com> Dennis..... You may well be right. But the definition of "this Achilles heel" varies all over the map. Revolution is not the best programming language for all classes of problem. Those who choose not to see it as a "real" programming language because of one perceived lack will often just find another if that one's addressed. And another. I've been through this with a dozen or more languages in my too-many-years in this business. All I'm saying is that rather than spending time and effort to enhance or extend Revolution to solve a set of problems for which another language might be better suited, I'd rather see RunRev work hard to make it easier and easier and more stable for addressing the problems for which it is the ideal solution. There are, I believe, more than enough of those to make Rev successful for many years to come. On Jun 22, 2005, at 6:40 AM, Dennis Brown wrote: > As long as Rev has this Achilles heel, it will preclude it's use as > a "real" programming language in the minds of many. > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Dan Shafer, Revolution Consultant and Author http://www.shafermedia.com Get my book, "Revolution: Software at the Speed of Thought" From http://www.shafermedia.com/revolutionbooks.html From mwieder at ahsoftware.net Wed Jun 22 18:01:00 2005 From: mwieder at ahsoftware.net (Mark Wieder) Date: Wed, 22 Jun 2005 15:01:00 -0700 Subject: Latest version of Revolution ? In-Reply-To: <6.1.2.0.2.20050622120723.027a0500@mail.ashford.ca> References: <42B88FD0.6060706@ashford.ca> <6.1.2.0.2.20050622120723.027a0500@mail.ashford.ca> Message-ID: <11324199517.20050622150100@ahsoftware.net> Bob- Wednesday, June 22, 2005, 12:14:12 PM, you wrote: RJE> Yes, I know about the "Check for Updates" but I was hoping somebody from RJE> Rev would pick up on my (maybe too) subtle hint at putting the bloody RJE> revision number on at least the ftp site files AND the "About" box. In RJE> Richard's words, just another coding convention, at least in my world if RJE> not Dar's ;-) RJE> I had a feeling that we could easily overwhelm Kevin & Co. with requests, RJE> but I also felt that a lot of folks did not know about the bug fix version. Do bugzilla this if you haven't already. I know Kevin and Mark are winging their way back to Scotland now and are planning on getting the updater updated to the latest version, but your excellent suggestion about making the revision number obvious in many places should get into the bug database where it can at least get voted on. Personally I'd like to see it in the About box, the Help menu, and the web site. -- -Mark Wieder mwieder at ahsoftware.net From see3d at writeme.com Wed Jun 22 18:02:02 2005 From: see3d at writeme.com (Dennis Brown) Date: Wed, 22 Jun 2005 18:02:02 -0400 Subject: compileIt for revolution? In-Reply-To: References: <20050622200805.109539300EE@mail.runrev.com> Message-ID: <61EF31B4-9AB8-4EFE-93B2-33E1F77E9330@writeme.com> John, I am not writing just for myself, I use a Mac and my friend uses a PC and he also has to be able to run my stuff. I do not have the budget for Matlab, etc., etc. I buy everything out of my own pocket. I am constrained to exactly what is good about Rev. Dennis On Jun 22, 2005, at 5:15 PM, Dr.John R.Vokey wrote: > If you are mostly writing for yourself, you can, of course, use RR > to produce a nice GUI, but pass all the time critical computations > to, say Matlab (or Octave, Matlab's GNU equivalent) using the shell > commands. But then, if that were the case, why not just use Matlab > (or Octave) directly? Incidentally, Smile (the free Applescript > program writer) has a brilliant math library (OSAX) attached to it > that can be called from RR index.html>. > > BTW, APL was my first programming language, too! Perhaps that is > why I tend to think of solutions in matrix linear algebra. > > On 22-Jun-05, at 2:08 PM, use-revolution-request at lists.runrev.com > wrote: > > >> John, >> >> I actually had a complete matrix algebra package as an external for >> Hypercard. I know how to use it, because I cut my teeth on APL. I >> implemented my complex algorithms and state machines in it. The >> coding was cumbersome, and it was difficult to debug and handle edge >> conditions, sparse arrays, etc. And to top it all off, it only ran >> 25% faster than the simple HyperCard stack even though it could >> crunch numbers 10 times faster. However, I have to admit that it >> spent a lot of time converting and passing arrays back and forth to >> HyperCard. A native engine capability might make a big difference if >> the internal representation could be typed by making sure you only >> put all the same type numbers into the array, and if the indexes were >> truly integers. The both matrix and element by element operations >> could be mixed and we would have the best of both worlds. >> >> Dennis >> >> > -- > John R. Vokey, PhD > Professor > B.E.R.G. - Behaviour and Evolution Research Group > Micro-Cognition Laboratory > Department of Psychology & Neuroscience > University of Lethbridge > Lethbridge, Alberta T1K 3M4 > CANADA > (403) 329-2409 office/lab > (403) 329-2555 FAX > > _______________________________________________ > use-revolution mailing list > use-revolution at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution > From revdan at danshafer.com Wed Jun 22 18:02:38 2005 From: revdan at danshafer.com (Dan Shafer) Date: Wed, 22 Jun 2005 15:02:38 -0700 Subject: compileIt for revolution? In-Reply-To: <20050622170404.76336.qmail@web51107.mail.yahoo.com> References: <20050622170404.76336.qmail@web51107.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <5D2B36D7-6FB4-40B6-8BE5-3D5BE47F9C22@danshafer.com> Precisely my earlier point. Rev is not for everything. If you have an app that needs to engage in this kind of esoteric processing, then you probably need to pick a different tool either for the entire app or to create a whiz-bang external that does this kind of processing fast enough for your needs. We need to resist the temptation to make rev into a panacea. A programming language that is everything to everyone is nothing to anyone. On Jun 22, 2005, at 10:04 AM, Gordon Webster wrote: > no amount of such trickery will ever allow > me to implement an efficient algorithm in Transcript > to process large 3-dimensional arrays of floating > point numbers ... and have it complete while I'm still > young enough to care about the results. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Dan Shafer, Revolution Consultant and Author http://www.shafermedia.com Get my book, "Revolution: Software at the Speed of Thought" From http://www.shafermedia.com/revolutionbooks.html From revdan at danshafer.com Wed Jun 22 18:05:06 2005 From: revdan at danshafer.com (Dan Shafer) Date: Wed, 22 Jun 2005 15:05:06 -0700 Subject: compileIt for revolution? In-Reply-To: <20050622165136.B64F7930157@mail.runrev.com> References: <20050622165136.B64F7930157@mail.runrev.com> Message-ID: I support the notion of making integration of non-platform-specific externals easier. But Rev's biggest win for me other than high-performance coding is cross-platform compatibility and I'm opposed to platform-specific extensions that either break or cause me to write painful conditional code blocks. The way rev implements the OS X-specific stuff is right. On Windows, it is just ignored. It doesn't break and the app still runs. That's all I'm saying here. On Jun 22, 2005, at 10:33 AM, MisterX wrote: > but Dan, > > adding a external (with just a new transcript handler or function > bridges that gap! > > Isn't that important marketing or userability wise? > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Dan Shafer, Revolution Consultant and Author http://www.shafermedia.com Get my book, "Revolution: Software at the Speed of Thought" From http://www.shafermedia.com/revolutionbooks.html From revdan at danshafer.com Wed Jun 22 18:11:38 2005 From: revdan at danshafer.com (Dan Shafer) Date: Wed, 22 Jun 2005 15:11:38 -0700 Subject: compileIt for revolution? In-Reply-To: <0098429800f95fbbbb725daa4ddd8473@qldlearning.com> References: <20050622034955.C8E81930064@mail.runrev.com> <6f32f438ffcc982cdee1d8735624c743@qldlearning.com> <1EDE423A-4757-453D-8B02-BA4949388386@danshafer.com> <0098429800f95fbbbb725daa4ddd8473@qldlearning.com> Message-ID: <1066CB1F-9C63-4693-BDA9-5AF1ED6F93D3@danshafer.com> This whole discussion has been revealing and intriguing to me. My favorite programming language is Smalltalk. But before it was possible to create UIs for Smalltalk without writing code, I found it cumbersome. When a product called WindowBuilder came along, I felt like we'd achieved the ultimate development environment. In many ways, I still think that. Smalltalk had other problems, unfortunately, that made it great to code in, difficult to impossible to deploy. Then my second favorite language was Python. The GUI-building tools for Python are pathetic to non-existent. But the language is powerful and elegant and extends naturally. If the PythonCard project I was engaged in before I discovered Revolution had been on a fast track or complete, odds are I'd have never used Rev. Now I favor Transcript and RunRev. Building UIs is all but painless and 95% of what I want or need to do in creating apps is simple inside the elegance of Transcript. But Transcript isn't object- oriented. Two aphorisms came to mind as I read this entire thread again today. One is, "No good programmer uses only one tool for everything." The other is, "It's a poor workman who blames his tools." ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Dan Shafer, Revolution Consultant and Author http://www.shafermedia.com Get my book, "Revolution: Software at the Speed of Thought" From http://www.shafermedia.com/revolutionbooks.html From revdan at danshafer.com Wed Jun 22 18:13:08 2005 From: revdan at danshafer.com (Dan Shafer) Date: Wed, 22 Jun 2005 15:13:08 -0700 Subject: the := operator (affectation) In-Reply-To: <42B97D53.6060002@sover.net> References: <20050622014737.2008.qmail@web60523.mail.yahoo.com> <22094012-37A8-408E-A841-1D5EE78D6630@danshafer.com> <42B97D53.6060002@sover.net> Message-ID: <264A7857-6835-4C0A-882C-A17D338679EF@danshafer.com> Yep On Jun 22, 2005, at 8:01 AM, Jon wrote: > > > Dan Shafer wrote: > > >> (I always found the whole ==, +=, :=, == syntax mess pretty ugly. >> I love the elegance of put 32 into x.) >> > > > Elegance, verbosity. Poe-tay-toe, poe-tah-toe... > _______________________________________________ > use-revolution mailing list > use-revolution at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution > > From revdan at danshafer.com Wed Jun 22 18:15:20 2005 From: revdan at danshafer.com (Dan Shafer) Date: Wed, 22 Jun 2005 15:15:20 -0700 Subject: Principles for User-Interface Design In-Reply-To: <20050622161458.45272.qmail@web40524.mail.yahoo.com> References: <20050622161458.45272.qmail@web40524.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <48F42351-048B-4855-85A7-3B6035D067EE@danshafer.com> FWIW, I've been a big fan of Raskin's for years but this humane interface stuff is just wrong-headed. "Not implementable" is only where it starts. Dan On Jun 22, 2005, at 9:14 AM, Alejandro Tejada wrote: > on Wed, 22 Jun 2005 > Jon wrote: > > >> If you want a real kick in the UI pants, check out >> the late Jef Raskin's >> book called The Humane Interface. His ideas are >> radical enough that >> they cannot be implemented in most development >> environments, but they >> are worth considering. >> > > Hi John, > > Thanks for the pointer to the > book of the late Jeff Raskin. > > Look John, in their website, they write > about the many difficulties of implementing > their software in multiple platforms... > because the differences in keyboard response: > > > > Very enlightening! > > al > > > > Visit my site: > http://www.geocities.com/capellan2000/ > > > > ____________________________________________________ > Yahoo! Sports > Rekindle the Rivalries. Sign up for Fantasy Football > http://football.fantasysports.yahoo.com > _______________________________________________ > use-revolution mailing list > use-revolution at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution > > From revdan at danshafer.com Wed Jun 22 18:18:13 2005 From: revdan at danshafer.com (Dan Shafer) Date: Wed, 22 Jun 2005 15:18:13 -0700 Subject: the := operator (affectation) In-Reply-To: <42B9D074.1040805@fourthworld.com> References: <20050622014737.2008.qmail@web60523.mail.yahoo.com> <22094012-37A8-408E-A841-1D5EE78D6630@danshafer.com> <42B97D53.6060002@sover.net> <42B9D074.1040805@fourthworld.com> Message-ID: <3E4B89FE-1983-462A-934B-D4852052610C@danshafer.com> Sorry, Richard, I respectfully disagree. People learning a new environment are constantly confused when there are too many ways to do the same thing. Same is true of a programming language. One of the fundamental design principles behind Python is that there should be only one right way to do anything. One man's variety is another's confusion. On Jun 22, 2005, at 1:56 PM, Richard Gaskin wrote: > Jon wrote: > >> Dan Shafer wrote: >> >>> (I always found the whole ==, +=, :=, == syntax mess pretty ugly. >>> I love the elegance of put 32 into x.) >>> >> Elegance, verbosity. Poe-tay-toe, poe-tah-toe... >> > > A single-token assignment operator would be a nice OPTION. Those > who prefer the traditional form would never need to deal with it, > while those of us who are comfortable with it could use it. I see > no downside and many upsides as Rev expands the range of people it > might appeal to.... > > -- > Richard Gaskin > Fourth World Media Corporation > ___________________________________________________________ > Ambassador at FourthWorld.com http://www.FourthWorld.com > _______________________________________________ > use-revolution mailing list > use-revolution at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution > > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Dan Shafer, Revolution Consultant and Author http://www.shafermedia.com Get my book, "Revolution: Software at the Speed of Thought" From http://www.shafermedia.com/revolutionbooks.html From revdan at danshafer.com Wed Jun 22 18:18:58 2005 From: revdan at danshafer.com (Dan Shafer) Date: Wed, 22 Jun 2005 15:18:58 -0700 Subject: the := operator (affectation) In-Reply-To: <9b408d8e0506221424794b7130@mail.gmail.com> References: <20050622014737.2008.qmail@web60523.mail.yahoo.com> <22094012-37A8-408E-A841-1D5EE78D6630@danshafer.com> <42B97D53.6060002@sover.net> <42B9D074.1040805@fourthworld.com> <6.2.1.2.2.20050622160411.19e23e70@exchange.slg.com> <9b408d8e0506221424794b7130@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <1F8A1ADC-F124-4516-9174-F74C5C4CD88C@danshafer.com> Better yet, let's include Smalltalk, too. It uses <- as the assignment operator. Sheesh. Dan On Jun 22, 2005, at 2:24 PM, Mikey wrote: > How is this even a continuing topic of discussion? Hey Japanese - I > think Katakana is too complicated. Let's stick to 26 symbols, ok? > Yeah. I'd like that next year. Transcript a different language. It > isn't Pascal or APL, or Fortran or Cobol or LISP or anything else, and > thank goodness for that. Do you actually ask the C++.net people for > this special treatment, too? Do they do anything but flame you off > the list? I mean - why :=? Why not go for broke and do it the basic > way? = can be used for assignment and comparison, and it's less > typing, so let's do that. > > I can see someone coming from C asking for some sort of different > syntax (uh, no), but Pascal? Please. > > Why not just abandon Transcript? Let's just generate a universal > interpreter/compiler. Mix syntax, languages and whatever as you > choose. No problem. > > Is it ok if we don't get that implemented before 2.6.2? We have a > couple of things slated for 2.6.1 first. > -- > http://taoof4d.blogspot.com > http://4dwishlist.blogspot.com > On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth > On the second day, God created the oceans. > On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours, > and did a little diving. > And God said, "This is good." > _______________________________________________ > use-revolution mailing list > use-revolution at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution > > From vokey at uleth.ca Wed Jun 22 18:20:44 2005 From: vokey at uleth.ca (Dr.John R.Vokey) Date: Wed, 22 Jun 2005 16:20:44 -0600 Subject: compileIt for revolution? In-Reply-To: <20050622213201.8ED849300FD@mail.runrev.com> References: <20050622213201.8ED849300FD@mail.runrev.com> Message-ID: <3b40fc037a69070ac0d972b4883fc88a@uleth.ca> Yes, as long as the constant conversion isn't required; I used handles both within Hypercard and in the XTHNGs, along with two conversion routines (compile hc variables into a floating-point array, and convert a floating-point array into a hc variable); the conversion routines were used sparingly. > On Jun 22, 2005, at 1:45 PM, Dr.John R.Vokey wrote: > >> The simplest possibility for the external route would be to be able to >> pass (and use) to and from the external, handles to large RAM-based >> sets of floating-point numbers; that was the solution I used in >> Hypercard back when the Earth was still cooling, and it worked very >> well. > > Would either RPN or the use of external-side variables by name be just > as usable to you? From M.Lange at ed.ac.uk Wed Jun 22 18:24:08 2005 From: M.Lange at ed.ac.uk (Marielle Lange) Date: Wed, 22 Jun 2005 23:24:08 +0100 Subject: Principles for User-Interface Design Message-ID: <1119479048.42b9e508089d8@staffmail.ed.ac.uk> >...and not just user-configurable UIs, but also the... um... I forget >what Microsoft calls it, but it's the thing where the menus have the >most recently-used items rearranged on the fly by default. >Kids - don't try this at home. These are clowns^H^H^H^HMicrosoft >engineers at work designing your user experience. Apologizes in advance to all PC users on this list. I had to use a PC to help a student set up an experiment this week... I had a very hard time keeping up from swearing. You know, all these little things that get you exclaim, "he that's clever" on one platform and "bloody hell, stop taking all these stupid decisions". (I let you guess which comment applies to which platform) Let's not start some arguing. Simple question: how many of you swear at your computer. What platform are you using? If you happen to use different platforms, how often do you swear when using each one of them In case you do it often, why not introduce a bit of diversity and try "'Wretch', 'Beast', 'Swine', 'Jellyfish', 'Ectoplasm', 'Freshwater swab', 'Bashi-bazouk', 'Caterpillar', 'Baboon', 'Parasite', 'Disgraceful', 'Treason', 'Twister', 'Heretic', 'Technocrat', 'Hydrocarbon', 'Anthracite', 'Coconut', 'Fuzzy-wuzzy', 'Anthropithecus', 'Black bird', 'Nincompoop', 'Anacoluthon', 'Invertebrate', 'Liquorice' (from: http://www.angelfire.com/super2/animorphs/insult.html ;-) ). The rev-ed wiki is at: There is some information (work in progress, mostly parts of John Mathewson's MSc thesis) about user-interface elements and guidelines, along with a few links . Really, feel free to update and improve the content. Links to Both apple and microsoft guidelines can be found there, along with the ones of other platforms and environments. For a quick read, I recommend Ten Usability Heuristics by Jakob Nielsen. Cheers, Marielle From claudi.c at fiberworld.nl Wed Jun 22 18:29:54 2005 From: claudi.c at fiberworld.nl (Claudi Cornaz) Date: Thu, 23 Jun 2005 00:29:54 +0200 Subject: matchChunk to find fontNames Message-ID: <27A441C2-E36D-11D9-AA00-000A959BA7DC@fiberworld.nl> Hi all, I am trying to implement a text menu and need to find all the fontNames and text attributes in the selectedChunk first to update my menu and afterwards to handle the choice. As long as all the text has all the same attributes (bold / italic etc) it's no problem but I need also to find all the attributes when it's mixed. I have been trying to get the instances of to extract all the parts like, the fontname, the size and the color if applicable with matchChunk. I start to understand regex a little bit, but I still did not got it to work just right. Here is what I got sofar to get the whole font face tag: matchChunk(tText, "()", tStart, tEnd) Some fontNames have spaces or - in theire name but if I add them to the regex like in the above example the end goes on to far like: Stone Sans OS ITC TT-Bold" color="#FF0000">zeker . . . . . . etc I tried to change the regex part with a $ at the end so it should stop at the ">" char. matchChunk(tText, "($)", tStart, tEnd) Well, no dice, now it finds nothing no more so obviously I am doing something wrong. How should this be done? Sugestions for a better way to find all the style runs are of course very welcome as well, since I just "thought" of this way to do it, in fact after quite some thought this came as "best" solution to my mind, but wether this is the best way to do it, well probably not. Anyway much thanks in advance and all help appreciated best wishes Claudi From mwieder at ahsoftware.net Wed Jun 22 18:31:50 2005 From: mwieder at ahsoftware.net (Mark Wieder) Date: Wed, 22 Jun 2005 15:31:50 -0700 Subject: the := operator (affectation) In-Reply-To: <42B9D074.1040805@fourthworld.com> References: <20050622014737.2008.qmail@web60523.mail.yahoo.com> <22094012-37A8-408E-A841-1D5EE78D6630@danshafer.com> <42B97D53.6060002@sover.net> <42B9D074.1040805@fourthworld.com> Message-ID: <5426049306.20050622153150@ahsoftware.net> Richard- Wednesday, June 22, 2005, 1:56:20 PM, you wrote: RG> A single-token assignment operator would be a nice OPTION. Those who RG> prefer the traditional form would never need to deal with it, while RG> those of us who are comfortable with it could use it. I see no downside RG> and many upsides as Rev expands the range of people it might appeal to.... I do. An IDE switch to allow one syntax or the other would be allowable (IMO) but having both permitted at once would be even more confusing for someone new coming into xtalk. And the compiler has to do a lot more work parsing two different syntaxes at once, which would make it more error-prone and slower. ...and, yes, I'm also constantly typing "var = 4", but I fix it up and move on. -- -Mark Wieder mwieder at ahsoftware.net From mwieder at ahsoftware.net Wed Jun 22 18:35:37 2005 From: mwieder at ahsoftware.net (Mark Wieder) Date: Wed, 22 Jun 2005 15:35:37 -0700 Subject: compileIt for revolution? In-Reply-To: <1066CB1F-9C63-4693-BDA9-5AF1ED6F93D3@danshafer.com> References: <20050622034955.C8E81930064@mail.runrev.com> <6f32f438ffcc982cdee1d8735624c743@qldlearning.com> <1EDE423A-4757-453D-8B02-BA4949388386@danshafer.com> <0098429800f95fbbbb725daa4ddd8473@qldlearning.com> <1066CB1F-9C63-4693-BDA9-5AF1ED6F93D3@danshafer.com> Message-ID: <19626276443.20050622153537@ahsoftware.net> Dan- Wednesday, June 22, 2005, 3:11:38 PM, you wrote: DS> Two aphorisms came to mind as I read this entire thread again today. DS> One is, "No good programmer uses only one tool for everything." DS> The other is, "It's a poor workman who blames his tools." Or, possibly more apropos, "No good programmer blames only one tool for everything." -- -Mark Wieder mwieder at ahsoftware.net From mwieder at ahsoftware.net Wed Jun 22 18:52:21 2005 From: mwieder at ahsoftware.net (Mark Wieder) Date: Wed, 22 Jun 2005 15:52:21 -0700 Subject: compileIt for revolution? In-Reply-To: References: <20050622165136.B64F7930157@mail.runrev.com> Message-ID: <16327279956.20050622155221@ahsoftware.net> Dan- Wednesday, June 22, 2005, 3:05:06 PM, you wrote: DS> The way rev implements the OS X-specific stuff is right. On Windows, DS> it is just ignored. It doesn't break and the app still runs. Here's where I think you're off base on this, Dan. I'd like to see runrev spend their time fixing bugs and working on new enhancements rather than chasing after the latest new features in . The "shell" command and being able to run AppleScript scripts are examples of being able to extend the language without relying on runrev to add more things to the engine. It's a winning situation for all if a) the runrev team doesn't have to go implementing new solutions every time a particular OS changes; b) developers don't have to wait around for runrev to implement new things; and c) there's an easy way to do these things from Transcript without needing to spawn non-cross-platform external libraries. Sometimes you need to get out of the sandbox (QuickTime, for example) and I don't think it should be the responsibility of the runrev team to keep extending the engine's capabilities. If runrev provides the hooks to allow us to do this then the onus is on us (got kind of a ring to it, doesn't it?) as developers to do what we need. I don't see this as interfering with your, or anyone else's, ability to code. If you need the capability, use it; otherwise just ignore it. -- -Mark Wieder mwieder at ahsoftware.net From mwieder at ahsoftware.net Wed Jun 22 18:57:52 2005 From: mwieder at ahsoftware.net (Mark Wieder) Date: Wed, 22 Jun 2005 15:57:52 -0700 Subject: ANN Daily Crytoquote In-Reply-To: References: <20050622142438.F16569300EB@mail.runrev.com> Message-ID: <18827611643.20050622155752@ahsoftware.net> Jim- Wednesday, June 22, 2005, 9:07:16 AM, you wrote: JH> The stack downloads daily quotes (usually 4 in number) from JH> http://www.quotationspage.com/. The stack will encrypt these quotes JH> and display them for your crypto-pleasure. When you double-click on a letter to place it back in the rack, the script replaces the encrypted letter but makes it red. I'm not sure if you intended this on purpose, but setting it to empty instead of red gives it the same appearance as the other letters. ...and many thanks for the stack. I'm adding it to JQBoggle as one of my standard time-wasters. -- -Mark Wieder mwieder at ahsoftware.net From mwieder at ahsoftware.net Wed Jun 22 19:04:21 2005 From: mwieder at ahsoftware.net (Mark Wieder) Date: Wed, 22 Jun 2005 16:04:21 -0700 Subject: compileIt for revolution? In-Reply-To: <3D24374E-6AF1-4BCB-8C72-231842EC1F09@writeme.com> References: <20050622163536.2DE66930138@mail.runrev.com> <3D24374E-6AF1-4BCB-8C72-231842EC1F09@writeme.com> Message-ID: <3727999901.20050622160421@ahsoftware.net> Dennis- Wednesday, June 22, 2005, 1:47:25 PM, you wrote: DB> John, DB> I actually had a complete matrix algebra package as an external for DB> Hypercard. I know how to use it, because I cut my teeth on APL. I DB> implemented my complex algorithms and state machines in it. The DB> coding was cumbersome, and it was difficult to debug and handle edge DB> conditions, sparse arrays, etc. And to top it all off, it only ran DB> 25% faster than the simple HyperCard stack even though it could DB> crunch numbers 10 times faster. However, I have to admit that it DB> spent a lot of time converting and passing arrays back and forth to DB> HyperCard. A native engine capability might make a big difference if DB> the internal representation could be typed by making sure you only DB> put all the same type numbers into the array, and if the indexes were DB> truly integers. The both matrix and element by element operations DB> could be mixed and we would have the best of both worlds. Couldn't you just recompile this as a runrev external? The GetArray() and SetArray() functions can work with the entire array at once, saving you from having to pass individual array elements. If you really need the speed you could have the external process the array in assembly language, stuffing the values into registers and having the CPU crunch them for you. -- -Mark Wieder mwieder at ahsoftware.net From alex at tweedly.net Wed Jun 22 19:15:09 2005 From: alex at tweedly.net (Alex Tweedly) Date: Thu, 23 Jun 2005 00:15:09 +0100 Subject: compileIt for revolution? In-Reply-To: <42B9733D.40801@dreamscapesoftware.com> References: <20050622014833.81974.qmail@web60517.mail.yahoo.com> <42B9733D.40801@dreamscapesoftware.com> Message-ID: <42B9F0FD.70408@tweedly.net> Derek Bump wrote: > If one who knows C and could figure out some sort of Transcript > wrapper, then it would be possible. There are many freeware and > public domain compilers out there, but finding one that successfully > compiles DLLs for Revolution is seemingly difficult. I've been trying > for a few months now, but with my limited knowledge of C I end up > running into errors. > > I am working on this project, but the *confusing* Externals SDK > doesn't help. It's pretty bad when I've used about 10 different > compilers (including MS Visual C) and I still can't get the samples to > compile properly. But that's a whole different issue. I had a lot of trouble getting it to work first time. A week later, I had even more trouble getting it to work the second time. (A sure sign that I hadn't really understood what I'd been doing first time .... not even well enough for my detailed notes to make it repeatable). Third time was better ...... it only took me 4 tries and 2 false starts tonight :-) Now I can almost do it reliably. The thing I kept getting wrong was understanding when the binding happens, and what that implies. The FAQ (in the "Externals" stack that came in the SDK says > In order to bind to external libraries the "set externals to" function > must be used. This tells the engine the library or multiple libraries > that the engine should bind to the next time it starts up. Multiple > libraries should be on separate lines. What I now do (having got it wrong often enough, including right now when I was writing down the step-by-step) is to start the stack up, set the externals, save it, quit Rev. Restart Rev, open the stack, run the script that sets externals again - then check that put the external of this stack and put the externalFunctions of this stack give me what I expect .... SO you might want to retry your earlier efforts, taking extra care about that step. If it's not that .... read on. Here's a step-by-step that now works reliably for me (even if I don't properly understand one crucial step :-) I use Bloodshed Dev C++ on Windows XP. I have version 4.9.9.1 (it's GPL - but that doesn't impose GPL restrictions on code compiled with it). 0. Create a directory - keep things simple by making this a top-level directory with no spaces in the name. (That's probably unnecessary, but I had trouble with spaces in file names. I think that was with one of the other compilers I tried earlier - but I haven't gone back to change this and see if everything still works ....) 00. unpack or unzip the Rev externals SDK into that directory. 1. make files this.c, this.h, this.def (see the end of the email for their contents) (why this.def ? and how did I figure out what goes into it ? far less what to do with it ??? no idea, but it works now .....) 2. open Dev-c++ 3. File / New / Project Select DLL from the set of icons Name the project "this" Select C Project from the radio buttons Click OK In the file save dialog, make sure you select the directory where you are doing this work (not the default), with the name as "this" (should be default). 4. click on th "+" beside the Project in the left pane of the window It should expand to show two files - dllmain.c and dllmain.h 5. For each of these, in turn, right click on it, select "Remove File" (and say "no" to saving it). 6. Right click on the Project, select "Add to Project" and in the file dialog select this.c 7. Repeat 6, selecting XCmdGlue.c 8. Menu select Project / Project Options .... select the Tab for "Parameters" Go to the 3rd column (Linker) and add to the end of the existing line " --def this.def" (without the quotes) The line should now read --no-export-all-symbols --add-stdcall-alias --def this.def and click "OK" 9. Menu select Execute / Compile You'll see a dialog that shows "compiling this.c", then "compiling XCmdGlue.c", then "Linking this.dll" Check the log (select the "Log" tab to see it). If it all looks OK, check that you now have a this.dll file 10. Start Rev, create a new main stack, add one button and one field. Make the button script be > on mouseUp > put the effective filename of this stack into mVar > set the itemDel to "/" > put "this.dll" into item -1 of mVar > set the externals of this stack to mVar > > put xname() into field "Field" > end mouseUp save it, and then click the button. I think this will fail first time - you need to close the stack and re-open it for the binding to take effect. See above - I actually save it, exit Rev, etc. Probably unnecessary, but I had so much trouble from 'accidental success' the first time I tried all this, and couldn't repeat it second time, that I am just paranoid ..... With any luck, you now have a working stack+external. So now when you try what you want to do, and it doesn't work, you have a base-line that you can compare against. If you don't have luck, email me off-list and I'll send you all the files involved from my system, and you can re-create the steps seeing what differs. I did this, comparing file sizes of the binaries, at one point, to discover that I was including the wrong .def file). this.c > #include > #include > #include > #include "XCmdGlue.h" > #include "this.h" > > /* > * This global table has one entry per XCMD/XFCN. > * The first entry is the name of the handler > * The second entry is the type (XCOMMAND or XFUNCTION) > * The third entry is a space for the atom (used by the engine) > * The fourth entry is the name of the 'C' function to call > * The fifth entry is a callback called if the user aborts > * Note that the last entry in the table is a NULL entry > * which is used to measure the size of the table. > */ > > Xternal Xtable[] = { > {"xname", XFUNCTION, 0, XGetName, XCabort}, > {"", XNONE, 0, NULL, NULL} > }; > > > /* > * This string identifies this external to the engine > */ > char Xname[] = "runrev externals"; > > void XCabort() > { > fprintf(stderr, "external abort"); > } > > > void XGetName(char *args[], int nargs, char **retstring, Bool *pass, > Bool *error) > { > > *pass = False; // don't pass the command up the chain > *error = False; // call was successful > *retstring = istrdup ("this is my name"); > } this.h > > #ifdef __STDC__ > extern void XGetName(char *args[], int nargs, char **retstring, Bool > *pass, Bool *error); > > #else > > extern void XGetName(); > > #endif > > extern void XCabort(); > extern Xternal Xtable[]; > extern char Xname[]; this.def > LIBRARY external > EXPORTS getXtable > (I rather suspect that first line should be LIBRARY this I think this is an accidental artifact of the sample being called external.h - but have no clue how to tell. Changing it doesn't appear to have any effect). -- Alex Tweedly http://www.tweedly.net -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.323 / Virus Database: 267.7.8/22 - Release Date: 17/06/2005 From ambassador at fourthworld.com Wed Jun 22 19:19:47 2005 From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin) Date: Wed, 22 Jun 2005 16:19:47 -0700 Subject: the := operator (affectation) In-Reply-To: <3E4B89FE-1983-462A-934B-D4852052610C@danshafer.com> References: <20050622014737.2008.qmail@web60523.mail.yahoo.com> <22094012-37A8-408E-A841-1D5EE78D6630@danshafer.com> <42B97D53.6060002@sover.net> <42B9D074.1040805@fourthworld.com> <3E4B89FE-1983-462A-934B-D4852052610C@danshafer.com> Message-ID: <42B9F213.6070000@fourthworld.com> Dan Shafer wrote: > Sorry, Richard, I respectfully disagree. > > People learning a new environment are constantly confused when there > are too many ways to do the same thing. Same is true of a programming > language. One of the fundamental design principles behind Python is > that there should be only one right way to do anything. One man's > variety is another's confusion. Precisely: it depends on the man. When teaching Transcript I tend to focus on the methods that will best resonate with the learner, and try to avoid the ones that confuse. Like you say, Transcript already offers many different ways to get the same result.... -- Richard Gaskin Fourth World Media Corporation ___________________________________________________________ Ambassador at FourthWorld.com http://www.FourthWorld.com From ambassador at fourthworld.com Wed Jun 22 19:24:57 2005 From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin) Date: Wed, 22 Jun 2005 16:24:57 -0700 Subject: the := operator (affectation) In-Reply-To: <5426049306.20050622153150@ahsoftware.net> References: <20050622014737.2008.qmail@web60523.mail.yahoo.com> <22094012-37A8-408E-A841-1D5EE78D6630@danshafer.com> <42B97D53.6060002@sover.net> <42B9D074.1040805@fourthworld.com> <5426049306.20050622153150@ahsoftware.net> Message-ID: <42B9F349.8000109@fourthworld.com> Mark Wieder wrote: > Richard- > > Wednesday, June 22, 2005, 1:56:20 PM, you wrote: > > RG> A single-token assignment operator would be a nice OPTION. Those who > RG> prefer the traditional form would never need to deal with it, while > RG> those of us who are comfortable with it could use it. I see no downside > RG> and many upsides as Rev expands the range of people it might appeal to.... > > I do. An IDE switch to allow one syntax or the other would be > allowable (IMO) but having both permitted at once would be even more > confusing for someone new coming into xtalk. Right -- teach newbies things that will appeal to newbies. And teach pros things that will appeal to pros. For the record, I'm not particularly invested in that particular assignment operator, just playing with the general idea of allowing a single-token alternative as some other xTalks have done. If the primary concern is having too many ways to do things, as Dan pointed out that cat's been out of the bag for years. I never teach bother explaining the externals API to newcomers to programming, and I never fail to mention it when discussing Rev with seasoned pros. Forgive my enthusiasm, but I feel there's enough here for everyone, and the problem isn't necessarily that a tool has a broad scope but merely how one reveals that scope when teaching it. -- Richard Gaskin Fourth World Media Corporation ___________________________________________________________ Ambassador at FourthWorld.com http://www.FourthWorld.com From M.Lange at ed.ac.uk Wed Jun 22 19:25:14 2005 From: M.Lange at ed.ac.uk (Marielle Lange) Date: Thu, 23 Jun 2005 00:25:14 +0100 Subject: ANN Daily Crytoquote (J. Landman Gay) Message-ID: <1119482714.42b9f35aea1ce@staffmail.ed.ac.uk> > The big problem with the decoder is the size of the dictionary (61,000 > entries)--much too big. Many of the words you will not recognize. > Anyone know of a more reasonable dictionary? Plenty at: http://lexicall.org/repository/listing.php?material=data (eh eh, a website with easy access to various lexical databases, realized by me, to ease my colleagues' life). Use the menu on top of the page to select category: word, language: english. Click on the little form icon. For instance, click on the form-like icon right under "aoa and imagery measures". Tick the first box only (deselect imagery mean and imagery SD - if you go with your mouse over the link, you see a description of what these acronyms mean), then click submit (bottom of the form, you may need to scroll down). You have list of about 2000 english words. For a more complete list, use the MRC database. For some of them, you can select words of a particular length (number of letters between 4 and 7, for instance) You can use regular expressions as well to select words with a given pattern. The list is truncated to 500 words, but I have all the files on my computer. If you tell me **exactly** what you need, I can easily provide it. Marielle >FRELI is here: > One I didn't know about... will be added to my repository soon. Marielle From sarahr at genesearch.com.au Wed Jun 22 19:31:36 2005 From: sarahr at genesearch.com.au (Sarah Reichelt) Date: Thu, 23 Jun 2005 09:31:36 +1000 Subject: License key not saved between launches In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <6D19C2A4-D35A-419A-8819-91028FBD6AF9@genesearch.com.au> > This happens on a freshly-installed system, with a new copy of the > disk image from the Revolution web site, the Revolution directory > copied directly from the disk image into the Applications directory > at the root of the drive. > What happens if you copy Revolution from the disk image to the Applications folder in your user folder? Sarah From ambassador at fourthworld.com Wed Jun 22 19:37:06 2005 From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin) Date: Wed, 22 Jun 2005 16:37:06 -0700 Subject: Naming conventions [was: Food Fight] In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <42B9F622.1070900@fourthworld.com> Ken Ray wrote: > On 6/22/05 11:40 AM, "Dennis Brown" wrote: > > >>Thanks for the many replies about naming conventions. So to summarize: >> >>1. The cryptic names are not really being pushed to make things >>unreadable, but as protection from the deficiencies of Rev. >> >>(etc.) > > I guess you could say that... and keep in mind that these "deficiencies" > didn't start with Rev - *all* xTalk languages (AFAIK) suffer these same > defiencies. Pretty much all languages that don't support namespaces are similarly affected. The notation many of us use is called "Hungarian-lite" because it follows much more comprehensive guidelines extablished by Hunagarian programming master Charles Simonyi between his tenures at PARC Place and Microsoft. Because we don't work for Simonyi, none of us is truly required to follow Hungarian notation, "lite" or otherwise. As with anything one might share as a tip that has helped them, if "Hungarian-lite" appeals to you feel free to use it, and if not feel free to ignore it. -- Richard Gaskin Fourth World Media Corporation ___________________________________________________________ Ambassador at FourthWorld.com http://www.FourthWorld.com From sarahr at genesearch.com.au Wed Jun 22 19:44:06 2005 From: sarahr at genesearch.com.au (Sarah Reichelt) Date: Thu, 23 Jun 2005 09:44:06 +1000 Subject: revCopyFile under Tiger In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: > When using revCopyFile under 10.4.1, I'm getting the annoying sound > that plays whenever you move/copy a file or folder to another > location in the Finder. In my opinion, revCopyFile should not play > that sound, but I'm sure it does just cause it uses system services > to do the copy. > > Anyone found a way to make that sound not play? Preferably without > having to disable something in the OS. What I'm doing is making a > little backup utility, and copying files like that with that sound > playing possibly hundreds of times is going to be *really* > annoying, to say the least. > AFAIK, revCopyFile uses AppleScript which calls the Finder, thereby producing the Finder noises. Copying using put URL ... into URL ... as Jacque suggested would get rid of this noise but might cause permissions problems. A further untested suggestion would be to use the shell command, which I think is cp: get shell(cp sourceFile destinationFile) This MIGHT copy OS X bundles and I think it will preserve any permissions. Cheers, Sarah From sarahr at genesearch.com.au Wed Jun 22 19:46:57 2005 From: sarahr at genesearch.com.au (Sarah Reichelt) Date: Thu, 23 Jun 2005 09:46:57 +1000 Subject: Latest version of Revolution ? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: > When I choose "check for updates" on my build 108 on mac os 10.3 it > says "I > must get build number 91). Maybe you are on windows or OS tiger. Yes, same for me and I am using Tiger. > I can't run > Tiger because it destroyed Hypercard. It didn't for me! I am still using HyperCard with Tiger. I heard that 9 to 5 Reports no longer works but I don;t have that to test. HyperCard itself still works fine. Sarah From ambassador at fourthworld.com Wed Jun 22 19:48:31 2005 From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin) Date: Wed, 22 Jun 2005 16:48:31 -0700 Subject: Food Fight - Rev Name Space In-Reply-To: <1487725458.20050622102626@ahsoftware.net> References: <1487725458.20050622102626@ahsoftware.net> Message-ID: <42B9F8CF.8020901@fourthworld.com> Mark Wieder wrote: > Ken- > > Wednesday, June 22, 2005, 9:51:53 AM, you wrote: > > KR> In fact, you should go over there and download the latest (Draft 004) > KR> specification so you can see how the globals/etc. are used. You'll see the > > It would be nice if the group weren't quite so private. Is there some > reason why the specification is unavailable even to look at without > joining the group? To my mind that defeats the purpose of creating a > standard... Agreed. While most of the working groups for Rev are at Yahoo and all Yahoo groups carry the same permissions restrictions, we will go one step further: Next week I'll add a new RIP section to revJournal which will serve as a mirror for all files posted to the working group. -- Richard Gaskin Managing Editor, revJournal _______________________________________________________ Rev tips, tutorials and more: http://www.revJournal.com From ambassador at fourthworld.com Wed Jun 22 19:52:56 2005 From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin) Date: Wed, 22 Jun 2005 16:52:56 -0700 Subject: compileIt for revolution? In-Reply-To: <20050622160127.1D86B93012B@mail.runrev.com> References: <20050622160127.1D86B93012B@mail.runrev.com> Message-ID: <42B9F9D8.4080302@fourthworld.com> MisterX wrote: > Gordon, > > Beware that even i surprise myself with newby tricks. > > I just posted a "slow" fractal moire maker. It creates beautiful patterns > and the detail is amazing but it does so creating some 40000 graphics in a > card. For the truely beautiful patterns, it took 300000 graphics! The making > can still be optimized but deleting images cannot be done like words in a > field! Delete graphic 1 to -1 or delete all graphics doesn't work. > > i have the patience to create these graphics and see them rendered. But when > it comes to getting rid of them, no way! And the clearGraphics routine took > foreever! 200 graphics per second... You do the math - many minutes wasted > waiting to create a better pattern. > > The trick was to create all the graphics in a group. > when the graphic is done, delete the group. > > 300000 graphics deleted in 2 seconds. And as Geoff Canyon discovered, you can go one step further by drawing all polygons as a single object, but just including a blank line in the points property wherever you want a discontiguous object. -- Richard Gaskin Fourth World Media Corporation ___________________________________________________________ Ambassador at FourthWorld.com http://www.FourthWorld.com From scott at tactilemedia.com Wed Jun 22 19:57:29 2005 From: scott at tactilemedia.com (Scott Rossi) Date: Wed, 22 Jun 2005 16:57:29 -0700 Subject: compileIt for revolution? In-Reply-To: <42B9F9D8.4080302@fourthworld.com> Message-ID: Recently, Richard Gaskin wrote: >> i have the patience to create these graphics and see them rendered. But when >> it comes to getting rid of them, no way! And the clearGraphics routine took >> foreever! 200 graphics per second... You do the math - many minutes wasted >> waiting to create a better pattern. >> >> The trick was to create all the graphics in a group. >> when the graphic is done, delete the group. >> >> 300000 graphics deleted in 2 seconds. > > And as Geoff Canyon discovered, you can go one step further by drawing > all polygons as a single object, but just including a blank line in the > points property wherever you want a discontiguous object. Unfortunately, this won't work for Xavier's case since each object is shaded with a different color, but it's worth noting as you say that sometimes multiple vector objects can be replaced with one. Regards, Scott Rossi Creative Director Tactile Media, Multimedia & Design ----- E: scott at tactilemedia.com W: http://www.tactilemedia.com From ambassador at fourthworld.com Wed Jun 22 19:59:47 2005 From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin) Date: Wed, 22 Jun 2005 16:59:47 -0700 Subject: compileIt for revolution? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <42B9FB73.2030808@fourthworld.com> Scott Rossi wrote: > Recently, Richard Gaskin wrote: > > >>>i have the patience to create these graphics and see them rendered. But when >>>it comes to getting rid of them, no way! And the clearGraphics routine took >>>foreever! 200 graphics per second... You do the math - many minutes wasted >>>waiting to create a better pattern. >>> >>>The trick was to create all the graphics in a group. >>>when the graphic is done, delete the group. >>> >>>300000 graphics deleted in 2 seconds. >> >>And as Geoff Canyon discovered, you can go one step further by drawing >>all polygons as a single object, but just including a blank line in the >>points property wherever you want a discontiguous object. > > > Unfortunately, this won't work for Xavier's case since each object is shaded > with a different color, but it's worth noting as you say that sometimes > multiple vector objects can be replaced with one. True. If there are 30,000 different colors being used my hunch is that you could but that in half with very few human eyes able to discern any difference. -- Richard Gaskin Fourth World Media Corporation ___________________________________________________________ Ambassador at FourthWorld.com http://www.FourthWorld.com From sarahr at genesearch.com.au Wed Jun 22 20:00:18 2005 From: sarahr at genesearch.com.au (Sarah Reichelt) Date: Thu, 23 Jun 2005 10:00:18 +1000 Subject: Function key menu shortcuts Message-ID: <8FDAE531-E402-439F-8171-32B80037C824@genesearch.com.au> Is there any way to have a function key show up as the shortcut for a menu? I can script it to happen, but I don't know how to make it apparent to the user. I can set a command key shortcut and it appears beside the menu item, but I would like to have "F1", "F8" etc appearing beside the item. Is this possible? (I'm talking about Mac only and menubar menus, not popups). TIA, Sarah From lists at mangomultimedia.com Wed Jun 22 20:05:21 2005 From: lists at mangomultimedia.com (Trevor DeVore) Date: Wed, 22 Jun 2005 17:05:21 -0700 Subject: compileIt for revolution? In-Reply-To: <42B9F0FD.70408@tweedly.net> References: <20050622014833.81974.qmail@web60517.mail.yahoo.com> <42B9733D.40801@dreamscapesoftware.com> <42B9F0FD.70408@tweedly.net> Message-ID: <0246D11D-E002-4119-A417-948C02191AEF@mangomultimedia.com> On Jun 22, 2005, at 4:15 PM, Alex Tweedly wrote: > What I now do (having got it wrong often enough, including right > now when I was writing down the step-by-step) is to start the stack > up, set the externals, save it, quit Rev. Restart Rev, open the > stack, run the script that sets externals again - then check that > put the external of this stack and put the externalFunctions of > this stack give me what I expect ... Alex, To check if an external has successfully loaded you can check for the externalPackages of a stack. When you create the external you define the global char XName[] = "My Extension Name"; This string will show up in the externalPackages of the stack when it has been successfully loaded. As for when the external loads you can do this: 1) Create a new stack. 2) Set the destroyWindow of the stack to true 3) Set the externals of the stack to whatever. 4) Close the stack window 5) Open the stack window 6) Check the externalPackages. It should have the name of the external. -- Trevor DeVore Blue Mango Multimedia trevor at mangomultimedia.com From devin_asay at byu.edu Wed Jun 22 20:09:40 2005 From: devin_asay at byu.edu (Devin Asay) Date: Wed, 22 Jun 2005 18:09:40 -0600 Subject: revCopyFile under Tiger In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Jun 22, 2005, at 12:59 PM, Chris Sheffield wrote: > Here's an stupid thing that I'm hoping someone can help with. > > When using revCopyFile under 10.4.1, I'm getting the annoying sound > that plays whenever you move/copy a file or folder to another > location in the Finder. In my opinion, revCopyFile should not play > that sound, but I'm sure it does just cause it uses system services > to do the copy. > > Anyone found a way to make that sound not play? Preferably without > having to disable something in the OS. What I'm doing is making a > little backup utility, and copying files like that with that sound > playing possibly hundreds of times is going to be *really* > annoying, to say the least. Don't know of a way from Rev, but the sound effects can be turned off in System Preferences > Sound > Sound Effects. Unclick the box labeled "Play user interface sound effects". DNA Devin Asay Humanities Technology and Research Support Center Brigham Young University From bvg at mac.com Wed Jun 22 20:18:03 2005 From: bvg at mac.com (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Bj=F6rnke_von_Gierke?=) Date: Thu, 23 Jun 2005 02:18:03 +0200 Subject: matchChunk to find fontNames In-Reply-To: <27A441C2-E36D-11D9-AA00-000A959BA7DC@fiberworld.nl> References: <27A441C2-E36D-11D9-AA00-000A959BA7DC@fiberworld.nl> Message-ID: On Jun 23 2005, at 00:29, Claudi Cornaz wrote: > Hi all, > > I am trying to implement a text menu and need to find all the fontNames > and text attributes in the selectedChunk first to update my menu and > afterwards > to handle the choice. > As long as all the text has all the same attributes (bold / italic > etc) it's no problem > but I need also to find all the attributes when it's mixed. > > I have been trying to get the instances of > to extract all the parts like, the fontname, the size and the color if > applicable with matchChunk. you could get the foregroundColor (or more aptly named the textColor) of the char. The textStyle property reports the current styles delimited by comma, if you query only one style at once. The textSize again returns mixed for a whole selection, but you can get it char per char, and it will give you exact data that way. so for example: --preparation put empty into theColor put empty into theSize put empty into theStyle put word two of the selectedchunk into theStart put word four of the selectedchunk into theEnd put word -1 of the selectedchunk into theField --getting the actual data from the chars repeat with x = theStart to theEnd put (the effective textColor of char x of field theField) & comma after theColor put (the effective textSize of char x of field theField) & comma after theSize put (the effective textStyle of char x of field theField) & comma after theStyle end repeat --now we can do whatever we want with the assembled list --for example to know what the dominant textSize is: put empty into theSizes --adding them up by using an array repeat for each item theItem in theSize add 1 to theSizes[theItem] end repeat --finall cleanup of the data we got combine theSizes using return and comma sort theSizes numeric by item 2 of each put theSizes --and finally you got your most used size! put line -1 of theSizes hope it does what you want? Bj?rnke who wrote this mail Wouter and Mark who gave some vital hints (arrays, counting, sorting) -- http://contest.wecode.org Now running: the first ChatRev coding contest! sponsors: Altuit Andre Garzia Fourth World Karl Becker Runtime Revolution TidBITS in cooperation with eHUG From erikhans08 at yahoo.com Wed Jun 22 20:24:41 2005 From: erikhans08 at yahoo.com (Erik Hansen) Date: Wed, 22 Jun 2005 17:24:41 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Dev Tool Bugs... esprit de l'escalier In-Reply-To: <42B87E85.317B8435@Club-Internet.fr> Message-ID: <20050623002441.65754.qmail@web33015.mail.mud.yahoo.com> --- jbv wrote: > ... bingo! the > solution used to pop up in my mind just after 5 > min of driving, and > as my mind was wandering I don't know where... > > JB there is an expression in French, something like "esprit de l'escalier" where the devastating conversational riposte comes just as you are exiting down the stairs. Erik Hansen erik at erikhansen.org http://www.erikhansen.org ____________________________________________________ Yahoo! Sports Rekindle the Rivalries. Sign up for Fantasy Football http://football.fantasysports.yahoo.com From ambassador at fourthworld.com Wed Jun 22 20:28:12 2005 From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin) Date: Wed, 22 Jun 2005 17:28:12 -0700 Subject: compileIt for revolution? In-Reply-To: <386EA08D-07BE-4754-AB4A-3616B73A9E9F@writeme.com> References: <20050622034955.C8E81930064@mail.runrev.com> <386EA08D-07BE-4754-AB4A-3616B73A9E9F@writeme.com> Message-ID: <42BA021C.3090302@fourthworld.com> Dennis Brown wrote: > I don't think compiling scripts is the answer. It wasn't with CompileIt! either. ;) Yes, it was *possible* to compile straight HyperTalk, but that rarely ran significantly faster than it did in HC's own interpreter, mostly due to the need for callbacks to the engine. So instead CompileIt! had its own unique syntax and hundreds of symbols one could use to implement things that were algorithmically very much like one would do in Pascal or C. Of course this required a whole other level of knowledge, and for those symbols related to the Mac Toolbox it also required the dozen-volume set of Inside Mac books, and/or the more efficient Think Library (which came with Think C). So to use CompileIt! effectively required an understanding of pointers, handles, and the OS API, along with many other low-level things. For many folks the bigger downside to implementing lower-level algorithms in a high-level xTalk variant was that it ultimately resembled neither HyperTalk nor any of the languages used in examples for the OS API. With only 27 keywords in the language, the learning requirement for implementing those sorts of algorithms in C is arguably much lower, and there are infinitely more resources available to get one started with C than with CompileItSpeak. And of course CompileIt! was written for Mac OS/68k only, while Rev runs on a dozen platforms. By the time one could manage to master CompileItSpeak to do effecient work, the amount of forked code needed for all platforms would not likely be much less than is required for C. This is not to suggest that I believe all Rev fans should learn C, so let me please dispel that hyperbole before it arises. All I'm suggesting is that CompileIt! was no panacea, and the effort of using it well was arguably about the same as using existing solutions to make externals in Rev today. -- Richard Gaskin Fourth World Media Corporation __________________________________________________ Rev tools and more: http://www.fourthworld.com/rev From ambassador at fourthworld.com Wed Jun 22 20:30:33 2005 From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin) Date: Wed, 22 Jun 2005 17:30:33 -0700 Subject: compileIt for revolution? In-Reply-To: <42B9733D.40801@dreamscapesoftware.com> References: <20050622014833.81974.qmail@web60517.mail.yahoo.com> <42B9733D.40801@dreamscapesoftware.com> Message-ID: <42BA02A9.7000402@fourthworld.com> Derek Bump wrote: > If one who knows C and could figure out some sort of Transcript wrapper, > then it would be possible. There are many freeware and public domain > compilers out there, but finding one that successfully compiles DLLs for > Revolution is seemingly difficult. I've been trying for a few months > now, but with my limited knowledge of C I end up running into errors. > > I am working on this project, but the *confusing* Externals SDK doesn't > help. What aspects have you found confusing? I wonder if a Rev tool set up for writing C, generating the make file, and running GCC would address a lot of this with very little effort.... -- Richard Gaskin Managing Editor, revJournal _______________________________________________________ Rev tips, tutorials and more: http://www.revJournal.com From erikhans08 at yahoo.com Wed Jun 22 20:37:06 2005 From: erikhans08 at yahoo.com (Erik Hansen) Date: Wed, 22 Jun 2005 17:37:06 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Boontling Transcript In-Reply-To: <42B654AD.1040203@fourthworld.com> Message-ID: <20050623003706.14687.qmail@web33002.mail.mud.yahoo.com> --- Richard Gaskin wrote: > > Richard Gaskin's newly coined phrase: > > > > last year's "groups of stuff" has been > updated > > to "things of stuff" which adroitly avoids > > confusion with the more prosaic > > "backgrounds of groups". > > Well put (and arguably clearer than my > discussion of the differences > between backgrounds and groups). :) your diagram with the "Group" or "BG" boxes placed before and after the card in a message path was the clearest explanation i have seen. maybe "see" is the key word, or is that too close to "keyword"? maybe i should say value(tKeyWord). > So what's the Boont for "backgroundBehavior"? still working on that one , so far: demoshed (not in motion) = crashed moshed (not in motion) = running Erik Hansen erik at erikhansen.org http://www.erikhansen.org ____________________________________________________ Yahoo! Sports Rekindle the Rivalries. Sign up for Fantasy Football http://football.fantasysports.yahoo.com From jperryl at ecs.fullerton.edu Wed Jun 22 20:40:46 2005 From: jperryl at ecs.fullerton.edu (Judy Perry) Date: Wed, 22 Jun 2005 17:40:46 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Principles for User-Interface Design In-Reply-To: <20050622203557.51162.qmail@web40528.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Al: It sux bigtime!!! I remember once I was teaching the "how to turn your computer on" class on the PC platform and some CS major decided it would be cute to reprogram the left-right mouse buttons to their opposite. I can't begin to tell you how much fun that was. Happened periodically that term. As for Macromedia's, er, now Adobe's I guess, UI, all I can say is that (a) It's bad; (b) It's not possible to have a display that is big enough to handle its bloat; and, (c) It's really bad. Misery loves company... Judy On Wed, 22 Jun 2005, Alejandro Tejada wrote: > Have you see how "configurable" is the > interface of Macromedia FreeHand MX? > > In the computer classroom, last week, i noticed > the most bizarre behavior from FreeHand MX. > Every student "done" and "undone" the MX interface > at will, so in the end, i had to spend the first > 15 minutes every day to return FreeHand to the > state of the previous day. > And some days, it was necessary to reinstall the > program, to revert all changes... :-( > From erikhans08 at yahoo.com Wed Jun 22 20:44:43 2005 From: erikhans08 at yahoo.com (Erik Hansen) Date: Wed, 22 Jun 2005 17:44:43 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Boontling - Transcript -- correction In-Reply-To: <3d8af415050622085345049460@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <20050623004443.76247.qmail@web33013.mail.mud.yahoo.com> > > Richard Gaskin's newly coined phrase: > > > > last year's "groups of stuff" has been > updated > > to "things of stuff" which adroitly avoids > > confusion with the more prosaic > > "backgrounds of groups". > > Well put (and arguably clearer than my > discussion of the differences > between backgrounds and groups). :) your diagram with the "Group" or "BG" boxes placed before and after the card in a message path was the clearest explanation i have seen. maybe "see" is the key word, or is that too close to "keyword"? maybe i should say value(tKeyWord). > So what's the Boont for "backgroundBehavior"? still working on that one , so far: deMoshed (not in motion) = crashed moshed (in motion) = running Erik Hansen erik at erikhansen.org http://www.erikhansen.org __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com From erikhans08 at yahoo.com Wed Jun 22 20:56:25 2005 From: erikhans08 at yahoo.com (Erik Hansen) Date: Wed, 22 Jun 2005 17:56:25 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Food Fight - video In-Reply-To: <5C437FED-DB1B-447D-9785-56F8594BB1B0@canelasoftware.com> Message-ID: <20050623005625.74718.qmail@web33015.mail.mud.yahoo.com> --- Mark Talluto wrote: > > On Jun 21, 2005, at 3:15 PM, Erik Hansen wrote: > > > > > > > --- Mark Talluto > > wrote: > > > > > >> I just wish some of it had been tossed my > way. > >> > > > > i just wish you had had a second roving > camera. > > next time ask me! > > > > Sounds like a great idea Erik. can't wait! Erik erik at erikhansen.org http://www.erikhansen.org __________________________________ Yahoo! Mail Mobile Take Yahoo! Mail with you! Check email on your mobile phone. http://mobile.yahoo.com/learn/mail From jhurley at infostations.com Wed Jun 22 20:57:53 2005 From: jhurley at infostations.com (Jim Hurley) Date: Wed, 22 Jun 2005 17:57:53 -0700 Subject: use-revolution Digest, Vol 21, Issue 131 In-Reply-To: <20050622225113.47A31930120@mail.runrev.com> References: <20050622225113.47A31930120@mail.runrev.com> Message-ID: > >------------------------------ > >Message: 10 >Date: Wed, 22 Jun 2005 15:57:52 -0700 >From: Mark Wieder >Subject: Re: ANN Daily Crytoquote >To: How to use Revolution >Message-ID: <18827611643.20050622155752 at ahsoftware.net> >Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii > >Jim- > >Wednesday, June 22, 2005, 9:07:16 AM, you wrote: > >JH> The stack downloads daily quotes (usually 4 in number) from >JH> http://www.quotationspage.com/. The stack will encrypt these quotes >JH> and display them for your crypto-pleasure. > >When you double-click on a letter to place it back in the rack, the >script replaces the encrypted letter but makes it red. I'm not sure if >you intended this on purpose, but setting it to empty instead of red >gives it the same appearance as the other letters. > >...and many thanks for the stack. I'm adding it to JQBoggle as >one of my standard time-wasters. > >-- >-Mark Wieder > mwieder at ahsoftware.net Mark, Thanks for the feedback. I'm not sure I understand the problem you speak of. When you double click a trial replacement (a black letter in the encoded field), the black letter disappears in the encoded field but is place back in the rack as a black letter. The original coded letter is restored and it should be red as it was before the trial replacement--it should the same as all the other red encoded letters. The code line that does this is: set the textcolor of char i of line 1 of field "encoded" to red It should be red because it is still a coded letter like all the rest of the coded letters in red. I have a feeling that I haven't followed you correctly. Jim From webmaster at dreamscapesoftware.com Wed Jun 22 21:19:51 2005 From: webmaster at dreamscapesoftware.com (Derek Bump) Date: Wed, 22 Jun 2005 20:19:51 -0500 Subject: compileIt for revolution? In-Reply-To: <42BA02A9.7000402@fourthworld.com> References: <20050622014833.81974.qmail@web60517.mail.yahoo.com> <42B9733D.40801@dreamscapesoftware.com> <42BA02A9.7000402@fourthworld.com> Message-ID: <42BA0E37.7040004@dreamscapesoftware.com> Richard Gaskin wrote: > What aspects have you found confusing? Well, for me it's confusing due to how I've learned every language in the past. I learned HyperTalk, Transcript, Perl, PHP and ASP by simply looking at examples and then trying to make them work. Then slowly I would add in other features until eventually I had a general understanding of how the language worked. My hope was that the same concept would apply with C. Unfortunately the examples within the Revolution Externals SDK would never compile on the first try. I would do what I thought was right, and every time I would get nothing but errors. So I figured maybe it was because I had the wrong compiler, so I downloaded as many free compilers (for Windows) and tried them all. Then I hopped on a few friends computers who had MS Visual C, Visual C .Net and Visual C++ 2005 Express. They would all fail. Now, thanks to Alex Tweedly, I have something to go on. I am re-downloading Bloodshed C++ and I will be attempting his walk through. If it works, I will be saving it and will use it in the future to setup all future externals. Alex did exactly what should be inside the SDK, a walk through for individuals who are interested in creating Externals but have no idea how to do it. In the end, Alex will be receiving a big thank you. Derek Bump Dreamscape Software _______________________________________________ Compress Photos for the Web with JPEGCompress http://www.dreamscapesoftware.com/ From see3d at writeme.com Wed Jun 22 21:20:57 2005 From: see3d at writeme.com (Dennis Brown) Date: Wed, 22 Jun 2005 21:20:57 -0400 Subject: compileIt for revolution? In-Reply-To: <1066CB1F-9C63-4693-BDA9-5AF1ED6F93D3@danshafer.com> References: <20050622034955.C8E81930064@mail.runrev.com> <6f32f438ffcc982cdee1d8735624c743@qldlearning.com> <1EDE423A-4757-453D-8B02-BA4949388386@danshafer.com> <0098429800f95fbbbb725daa4ddd8473@qldlearning.com> <1066CB1F-9C63-4693-BDA9-5AF1ED6F93D3@danshafer.com> Message-ID: Dan, I used to believe that too, Then I decided to spend twice a much on a table saw as I ever had before. The quality of my work doubled. The saw was heavy and stable, the blade did not wobble, and the fence was solid. My cuts were fast and accurate. Then I decided to buy the higher quality drill press, again what I was able to accomplish astounded me. I then realized that a master craftsman can build a thing of beauty with with a chisel, but a weekend warrior needs a tool that is forgiving and helps him succeed. With that tool he can accomplish far more than he could with just a chisel. My collection of tools work together on the same piece of data (wood). I move from one tool to the next to make the finished product. I could build a metal cabinet, and of course my woodworking tools would be useless. For that I would need a different set -- metalworking tools. When It comes to building a project, I look at the tools I have invested in and know how to use and then decide what I will build it out of. Some projects require the strength of metal, but in most projects you can make either work. Rev is a collection of woodworking tools, with a couple missing (like a router) that keeps me from making the full range of wood projects. On Jun 22, 2005, at 6:11 PM, Dan Shafer wrote: > > Two aphorisms came to mind as I read this entire thread again today. > > One is, "No good programmer uses only one tool for everything." > > The other is, "It's a poor workman who blames his tools." From alex at tweedly.net Wed Jun 22 21:22:54 2005 From: alex at tweedly.net (Alex Tweedly) Date: Thu, 23 Jun 2005 02:22:54 +0100 Subject: compileIt for revolution? In-Reply-To: <42BA02A9.7000402@fourthworld.com> References: <20050622014833.81974.qmail@web60517.mail.yahoo.com> <42B9733D.40801@dreamscapesoftware.com> <42BA02A9.7000402@fourthworld.com> Message-ID: <42BA0EEE.6000706@tweedly.net> Richard Gaskin wrote: > Derek Bump wrote: > >> If one who knows C and could figure out some sort of Transcript >> wrapper, then it would be possible. There are many freeware and >> public domain compilers out there, but finding one that successfully >> compiles DLLs for Revolution is seemingly difficult. I've been >> trying for a few months now, but with my limited knowledge of C I end >> up running into errors. >> >> I am working on this project, but the *confusing* Externals SDK >> doesn't help. > > > What aspects have you found confusing? > This is only a start .... - Doesn't say which compilers should work (tells me some that won't - but doesn't say which ones will - and in particular, doesn't say which free ones will :-) (It kind of implies that many of them will, maybe even most of them - but a short list of a few that are expected to work would eliminate that as a possible explanation for troubles run into) - Includes a number of examples which are fragments of C code, without any comments describing the interface being provided, and without showing the corresponding Transcript - Include samples like XSetArray which is a function using the "built-in" SetArray - but its parameters are never explained, and still something of a mystery. - It doesn't include a "tiny, simple" example; I'd like to see a very simple example - e.g. return the string "hello program" - in a separate directory. Not doing OS specific "GetComputerName", not calling QT, not .... just a very, very simple example. With a correspondingly simple Rev stack, and step-by-step instructions (not as detailed as I sent to this list, but some kind of "here's the first thing to do" instructions). - it intermingles things which are (apart from exceptional cases) "fixed" with things which are your own, without distinguishing clearly - e.g. "There are two header files you'll need to #include, XCmdGlue.h and external.h. ..." But there is no "external.h" file included in the distribution - it means the header file for your code, which will be anything but "external.h" In fact, the distribution includes article.c and article.h - what should happen is that article.c should #include the article.h - but it doesn't, it #includes external.h - which is non-existent, so you're guaranteed a compile failure at step 1. Not likely to inspire confidence. - it uses examples where the C functions are named with leading underscores - when prepended underscores was described above as (one of ) the reason(s) why the Borland compiler won't work - it includes extra functions that aren't referenced or used (as far as I can tell). e.g. XGetVar and XGetArray are in convolve_and_life.c - but I can't find anywhere they're used. > I wonder if a Rev tool set up for writing C, generating the make file, > and running GCC would address a lot of this with very little effort.... -- Alex Tweedly http://www.tweedly.net -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.323 / Virus Database: 267.7.8/22 - Release Date: 17/06/2005 From see3d at writeme.com Wed Jun 22 21:24:40 2005 From: see3d at writeme.com (Dennis Brown) Date: Wed, 22 Jun 2005 21:24:40 -0400 Subject: compileIt for revolution? In-Reply-To: <3727999901.20050622160421@ahsoftware.net> References: <20050622163536.2DE66930138@mail.runrev.com> <3D24374E-6AF1-4BCB-8C72-231842EC1F09@writeme.com> <3727999901.20050622160421@ahsoftware.net> Message-ID: <1EF12CEF-10E4-466B-BF9A-B3DF1CAA8B75@writeme.com> Mark, I did not write the external, I just bought it and used it. Dennis On Jun 22, 2005, at 7:04 PM, Mark Wieder wrote: > Dennis- > > Wednesday, June 22, 2005, 1:47:25 PM, you wrote: > > DB> John, > > DB> I actually had a complete matrix algebra package as an external > for > DB> Hypercard. I know how to use it, because I cut my teeth on > APL. I > DB> implemented my complex algorithms and state machines in it. The > DB> coding was cumbersome, and it was difficult to debug and handle > edge > DB> conditions, sparse arrays, etc. And to top it all off, it only > ran > DB> 25% faster than the simple HyperCard stack even though it could > DB> crunch numbers 10 times faster. However, I have to admit that it > DB> spent a lot of time converting and passing arrays back and > forth to > DB> HyperCard. A native engine capability might make a big > difference if > DB> the internal representation could be typed by making sure you only > DB> put all the same type numbers into the array, and if the > indexes were > DB> truly integers. The both matrix and element by element operations > DB> could be mixed and we would have the best of both worlds. > > Couldn't you just recompile this as a runrev external? The GetArray() > and SetArray() functions can work with the entire array at once, > saving you from having to pass individual array elements. If you > really need the speed you could have the external process the array in > assembly language, stuffing the values into registers and having the > CPU crunch them for you. > > -- > -Mark Wieder > mwieder at ahsoftware.net > > _______________________________________________ > use-revolution mailing list > use-revolution at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution > From alex at tweedly.net Wed Jun 22 21:33:04 2005 From: alex at tweedly.net (Alex Tweedly) Date: Thu, 23 Jun 2005 02:33:04 +0100 Subject: Principles for User-Interface Design In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <42BA1150.8060004@tweedly.net> Judy Perry wrote: >Al: > >It sux bigtime!!! > >I remember once I was teaching the "how to turn your computer on" class on >the PC platform and some CS major decided it would be cute to reprogram >the left-right mouse buttons to their opposite. > >I can't begin to tell you how much fun that was. Happened periodically >that term. > > I know what you mean. I used to work on a CAD graphics editing program. Some bright spark thought it would be funny to write a program that would roam around the network until it found a machine running the program, take over the whole screen, find where the buttons were, and then program it such that (sometimes) when you tried to click on a button, the button would "squirt" out from under the mouse, and scoot across the screen away from you .... slowing down a bit until the cursor got near when it would speed up again and go in a different direction. That was a big fad for a month or two, but then it became "old hat"; so next was the "melting screen" problem. The windows (esp near the top of the screen) would start to slowly "melt" - the borders would droop slightly, drips would form on the bottom corners, then the interiors would randomly and unevenly slide down, looking just like the windows had been painted on and the paint was running. Then there was the "paratrooper" - he'd drop down from the top of the screen, "land" on the bottom, then march off to the right - pushing in front of him any windows he found low enough on the screen. That was the week we disconnected the customer demonstration rooms from the development part of the network .... -- Alex Tweedly http://www.tweedly.net -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.323 / Virus Database: 267.7.8/22 - Release Date: 17/06/2005 From see3d at writeme.com Wed Jun 22 21:37:19 2005 From: see3d at writeme.com (Dennis Brown) Date: Wed, 22 Jun 2005 21:37:19 -0400 Subject: the := operator (affectation) In-Reply-To: <3E4B89FE-1983-462A-934B-D4852052610C@danshafer.com> References: <20050622014737.2008.qmail@web60523.mail.yahoo.com> <22094012-37A8-408E-A841-1D5EE78D6630@danshafer.com> <42B97D53.6060002@sover.net> <42B9D074.1040805@fourthworld.com> <3E4B89FE-1983-462A-934B-D4852052610C@danshafer.com> Message-ID: <636D8B8E-3A11-442F-B996-430FD357036D@writeme.com> I could go along with two: the slow simple straightforward logical way, and the compact high performance but more obscure way. I think Rev already has both cased covered in the syntax. Dennis On Jun 22, 2005, at 6:18 PM, Dan Shafer wrote: > Sorry, Richard, I respectfully disagree. > > People learning a new environment are constantly confused when > there are too many ways to do the same thing. Same is true of a > programming language. One of the fundamental design principles > behind Python is that there should be only one right way to do > anything. One man's variety is another's confusion. > > > On Jun 22, 2005, at 1:56 PM, Richard Gaskin wrote: > > >> Jon wrote: >> >> >>> Dan Shafer wrote: >>> >>> >>>> (I always found the whole ==, +=, :=, == syntax mess pretty >>>> ugly. I love the elegance of put 32 into x.) >>>> >>>> >>> Elegance, verbosity. Poe-tay-toe, poe-tah-toe... >>> >>> >> >> A single-token assignment operator would be a nice OPTION. Those >> who prefer the traditional form would never need to deal with it, >> while those of us who are comfortable with it could use it. I see >> no downside and many upsides as Rev expands the range of people it >> might appeal to.... >> >> -- >> Richard Gaskin >> Fourth World Media Corporation >> ___________________________________________________________ >> Ambassador at FourthWorld.com http://www.FourthWorld.com >> _______________________________________________ >> use-revolution mailing list >> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >> subscription preferences: >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution >> >> >> > > > > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ > Dan Shafer, Revolution Consultant and Author > http://www.shafermedia.com > Get my book, "Revolution: Software at the Speed of Thought" > From http://www.shafermedia.com/revolutionbooks.html > > > > > _______________________________________________ > use-revolution mailing list > use-revolution at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution > From jhurley at infostations.com Wed Jun 22 21:39:01 2005 From: jhurley at infostations.com (Jim Hurley) Date: Wed, 22 Jun 2005 18:39:01 -0700 Subject: ANN Daily Crytoquote--my misspelling In-Reply-To: <20050622181956.D387F93015B@mail.runrev.com> References: <20050622181956.D387F93015B@mail.runrev.com> Message-ID: > >Message: 3 >Date: Wed, 22 Jun 2005 12:25:37 -0500 >From: "J. Landman Gay" >Subject: Re: ANN Daily Crytoquote >To: How to use Revolution >Message-ID: <42B99F11.3090304 at hyperactivesw.com> >Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed > >On 6/22/05 11:07 AM, Jim Hurley wrote: > >> The big problem with the decoder is the size of the dictionary (61,000 >> entries)--much too big. Many of the words you will not recognize. >> Anyone know of a more reasonable dictionary? > >I don't know which dictionary you are using, but my Boggle game uses the >FRELI word list, which is free and unrestricted for anyone's use. It >comes in at 557K. I store it as a .gz compressed custom property and >decompress it into RAM when Boggle opens. This saves a great deal on >disk size. > >FRELI is here: > > > >Since I didn't need the parts of speech, I used a regular expression >(using BBEdit) to remove those before storing the file. That also >decreased its size considerably. > >-- >Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com >HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com > >------------------------------ Thanks Jacque. My dictionary of 61,000 words comes in at 592 K--similar to yours in size. The problem is that it includes a lot of words I've never heard of. For example the dictionary begins with the following: aardvark, aardwolf, aba, abaca, abacist, aback, abacus, abaft, abalone, abamp, abampere, abandon, abandoned, abase, abash, abate, abatement, abatis, abattoir, abaxial, abb, abba, abbacy, abbatial These rare words are no problem when used in a spelling checker, but if you are looking for all 5 letter words that begin with "a" and end with "h" you get: abash, aitch, aleph, apish, awash, azoth I never thought to use .gz compression. Thanks for the tip. Jim From see3d at writeme.com Wed Jun 22 21:54:20 2005 From: see3d at writeme.com (Dennis Brown) Date: Wed, 22 Jun 2005 21:54:20 -0400 Subject: Principles for User-Interface Design In-Reply-To: <1119479048.42b9e508089d8@staffmail.ed.ac.uk> References: <1119479048.42b9e508089d8@staffmail.ed.ac.uk> Message-ID: <65CE49EC-EC12-4CB3-9060-8E56D94CC257@writeme.com> I know what you mean. I keep trying to use a PC (I have one). I turn it on every year and try to run some applications. They run. I try to use it in a normal way, but by the end of the day, I unplug it again with a sigh of relief, and push it under the table next to my Mac. I have not thrown it out, because I keep having the feeling that someday I will want to run a special program that is not cross platform. That is why I plug it in again every so often, but then I decide it is just not worth the aggravation and I find another way of solving my problem. Perhaps write it in Rev. Yes, the tool does make a difference... Dennis On Jun 22, 2005, at 6:24 PM, Marielle Lange wrote: >> ...and not just user-configurable UIs, but also the... um... I forget >> what Microsoft calls it, but it's the thing where the menus have the >> most recently-used items rearranged on the fly by default. >> > > >> Kids - don't try this at home. These are clowns^H^H^H^HMicrosoft >> engineers at work designing your user experience. >> > > > Apologizes in advance to all PC users on this list. I had to use a > PC to help a > student set up an experiment this week... I had a very hard time > keeping up > from swearing. You know, all these little things that get you > exclaim, "he > that's clever" on one platform and "bloody hell, stop taking all > these stupid > decisions". (I let you guess which comment applies to which platform) > > Let's not start some arguing. Simple question: how many of you > swear at your > computer. What platform are you using? If you happen to use different > platforms, how often do you swear when using each one of them > > In case you do it often, why not introduce a bit of diversity and > try "'Wretch', > 'Beast', 'Swine', 'Jellyfish', 'Ectoplasm', 'Freshwater swab', > 'Bashi-bazouk', > 'Caterpillar', 'Baboon', 'Parasite', 'Disgraceful', 'Treason', > 'Twister', > 'Heretic', 'Technocrat', 'Hydrocarbon', 'Anthracite', 'Coconut', > 'Fuzzy-wuzzy', > 'Anthropithecus', 'Black bird', 'Nincompoop', 'Anacoluthon', > 'Invertebrate', > 'Liquorice' (from: http://www.angelfire.com/super2/animorphs/ > insult.html ;-) ). > > > > > The rev-ed wiki is at: > > There is some information (work in progress, mostly parts of John > Mathewson's > MSc thesis) about user-interface elements and guidelines, along > with a few > links > page=ResourcesInterfaceNavigation>. > Really, feel free to update and improve the content. > > Links to Both apple and microsoft guidelines can be found there, > along with the > ones of other platforms and environments. > > For a quick read, I recommend > > Ten Usability Heuristics by Jakob Nielsen. > > > Cheers, > Marielle > _______________________________________________ > use-revolution mailing list > use-revolution at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution > From jacque at hyperactivesw.com Wed Jun 22 22:41:08 2005 From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay) Date: Wed, 22 Jun 2005 21:41:08 -0500 Subject: ANN Daily Crytoquote--my misspelling In-Reply-To: References: <20050622181956.D387F93015B@mail.runrev.com> Message-ID: <42BA2144.3070204@hyperactivesw.com> On 6/22/05 8:39 PM, Jim Hurley wrote: > My dictionary of 61,000 words comes in at 592 K--similar > to yours in size. The problem is that it includes a lot of words I've > never heard of. For example the dictionary begins with the following: > > aardvark, aardwolf, aba, abaca, abacist, aback, abacus, abaft, abalone, > abamp, abampere, abandon, abandoned, abase, abash, abate, abatement, > abatis, abattoir, abaxial, abb, abba, abbacy, abbatial Well, FRELI won't help you there. It's got those too. Too bad we can't write a regex that means "take out everything obscure." -- Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com From jhj at jhj.com Wed Jun 22 22:46:20 2005 From: jhj at jhj.com (Jerry J) Date: Wed, 22 Jun 2005 19:46:20 -0700 Subject: compileIt for revolution? In-Reply-To: <20050623004020.A84F7930116@mail.runrev.com> References: <20050623004020.A84F7930116@mail.runrev.com> Message-ID: <852d347cea032890aa469a57691fedf0@jhj.com> > From: Richard Gaskin > Subject: Re: compileIt for revolution? > This is not to suggest that I believe all Rev fans should learn C, so > let me please dispel that hyperbole before it arises. All I'm > suggesting is that CompileIt! was no panacea, and the effort of using > it > well was arguably about the same as using existing solutions to make > externals in Rev today. Today, and also then. I arrived as a C programmer, learning HyperCard, just about when HC/XCMD 2.0 came out. I found CompileIt cumbersome for toolbox access, and learned how to write XCMDs in C (never looked back). Ahem, that was MPW C, sonny boy, Ahem! If I need an OS X external for Rev, I won't be looking for a tool like CompileIt. So far, I haven't needed such an external, but all the points about pixel-manipulation and real math are well taken. I haven't dived in yet, but seeing what Trevor and Chris altBohnert have done makes me feel good about the prospects. Best, Jerry Jensen From engleerica at yahoo.com Wed Jun 22 22:46:47 2005 From: engleerica at yahoo.com (Eric Engle) Date: Wed, 22 Jun 2005 19:46:47 -0700 (PDT) Subject: compileIt for Revolution? In-Reply-To: <20050622213201.B939893010B@mail.runrev.com> Message-ID: <20050623024647.72190.qmail@web60514.mail.yahoo.com> > Message: 7 > Date: Wed, 22 Jun 2005 17:24:18 -0400 > From: Mikey > Subject: Re: the := operator (affectation) > To: How to use Revolution > Message-ID: <9b408d8e0506221424794b7130 at mail.gmail.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 > > How is this even a continuing topic of discussion? Hey Japanese - I > think Katakana is too complicated. Let's stick to 26 symbols, ok? > Yeah. I'd like that next year. Transcript a different language. It > isn't Pascal or APL, or Fortran or Cobol or LISP or anything else, and > thank goodness for that. Do you actually ask the C++.net people for > this special treatment, too? Do they do anything but flame you off > the list? I mean - why :=? Why not go for broke and do it the basic > way? = can be used for assignment and comparison, and it's less > typing, so let's do that. > > I can see someone coming from C asking for some sort of different > syntax (uh, no), but Pascal? Please. Try not to get your knickers in a twist. In case you haven't noticed, hypertalk/transcript is clearly a Pascal derived language, they just got rid of begin/end, loosely typed it, and made the operator of affectation verbose. Compare the hypercard debugger to the debugger in thinkPascal just to see. The script indenter is also clearly imported from thinkPascal. Pascal remains important in the university world. I mean, if you're going to sneer at pascal, why not sneer at transcript, since it is clearly a pascal descendant and less ?bergeek to boot. So why use := ? Some people prefer pre-fixing affectation, and as I said, it is supported in lingo which is also a pascal derived language. In fact, I know of no other language that post-fixes affectation (put value into variable as opposed to affect(variable, value). Hell, I'd even prefer "let variable = value". Even your katakana analogy is wrong. You have 3 different scripts in japanese, not just katakan also hirigana, and kanjii. And, surprises surprise, kanjii is a simplified script and the other scripts are more complex and each has its purpose. Lingo also introduced dot syntax but still parses verbose syntax. I would never want to see dot syntax in xTalk. __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com From jacque at hyperactivesw.com Wed Jun 22 22:59:02 2005 From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay) Date: Wed, 22 Jun 2005 21:59:02 -0500 Subject: Latest version of Revolution ? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <42BA2576.2000900@hyperactivesw.com> On 6/22/05 6:46 PM, Sarah Reichelt wrote: >> When I choose "check for updates" on my build 108 on mac os 10.3 it >> says "I >> must get build number 91). Maybe you are on windows or OS tiger. > > > Yes, same for me and I am using Tiger. > >> I can't run >> Tiger because it destroyed Hypercard. > > > It didn't for me! I am still using HyperCard with Tiger. I heard that 9 > to 5 Reports no longer works but I don;t have that to test. HyperCard > itself still works fine. Tiger introduced a filepath problem that apparently affects some Classic apps, including HC. HC's global filepaths break and you can only edit some scripts (like the Home stack's) remotely. Upgrading to 10.4.1 apparently fixes it, or alternately you can run HC from a volume that isn't the startup volume and that works too. -- Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com From dsc at swcp.com Wed Jun 22 23:05:49 2005 From: dsc at swcp.com (Dar Scott) Date: Wed, 22 Jun 2005 21:05:49 -0600 Subject: compileIt for Revolution? In-Reply-To: <20050623024647.72190.qmail@web60514.mail.yahoo.com> References: <20050623024647.72190.qmail@web60514.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <6e5a34369a846f94f9c6c6efa08b5fda@swcp.com> On Jun 22, 2005, at 8:46 PM, Eric Engle wrote: > So why use := ? Some people prefer pre-fixing affectation, and as I > said, it is > supported in lingo which is also a pascal derived language. In fact, I > know of > no other language that post-fixes affectation (put value into variable > as > opposed to affect(variable, value). Hell, I'd even prefer "let > variable = > value". I like "put value into variable", but would much prefer ":=" to "=" (which looks like equality) or "let variable = value" (which looks like the variable does not change over scope). To me "let" has a particular mathematical meaning and its usage in basic is grating. The language Savvy used "put value into variable". I am not familiar with "affectation" for assignment. This is probably a hole in my knowledge. Perhaps it is distinct in some way so "assignment" can be more general or more specific; perhaps it is borrowed from the French. One main advantage of "put value into variable" is that it emphasizes the container model. On big problem is that terms like RHS (value) and LHS (variable) get confusing. Dar -- ********************************************** DSC (Dar Scott Consulting & Dar's Lab) http://www.swcp.com/dsc/ Programming and software ********************************************** From revdan at danshafer.com Wed Jun 22 23:38:36 2005 From: revdan at danshafer.com (Dan Shafer) Date: Wed, 22 Jun 2005 20:38:36 -0700 Subject: compileIt for revolution? In-Reply-To: <16327279956.20050622155221@ahsoftware.net> References: <20050622165136.B64F7930157@mail.runrev.com> <16327279956.20050622155221@ahsoftware.net> Message-ID: <3B0F173C-E5FA-49DC-9806-5220E6915E24@danshafer.com> Mark.... I have a hard time seeing where you and I disagree here. I think we're saying the same thing differently. Dan On Jun 22, 2005, at 3:52 PM, Mark Wieder wrote: > Dan- > > Wednesday, June 22, 2005, 3:05:06 PM, you wrote: > > DS> The way rev implements the OS X-specific stuff is right. On > Windows, > DS> it is just ignored. It doesn't break and the app still runs. > > Here's where I think you're off base on this, Dan. > > I'd like to see runrev spend their time fixing bugs and working on new > enhancements rather than chasing after the latest new features in > . The "shell" command and being able to run > AppleScript scripts are examples of being able to extend the language > without relying on runrev to add more things to the engine. > > It's a winning situation for all if a) the runrev team doesn't have to > go implementing new solutions every time a particular OS changes; b) > developers don't have to wait around for runrev to implement new > things; and c) there's an easy way to do these things from Transcript > without needing to spawn non-cross-platform external libraries. > > Sometimes you need to get out of the sandbox (QuickTime, for example) > and I don't think it should be the responsibility of the runrev team > to keep extending the engine's capabilities. If runrev provides the > hooks to allow us to do this then the onus is on us (got kind of a > ring to it, doesn't it?) as developers to do what we need. I don't see > this as interfering with your, or anyone else's, ability to code. If > you need the capability, use it; otherwise just ignore it. > > -- > -Mark Wieder > mwieder at ahsoftware.net > > _______________________________________________ > use-revolution mailing list > use-revolution at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution > > From revolution at jaedworks.com Wed Jun 22 02:19:25 2005 From: revolution at jaedworks.com (Jeanne A. E. DeVoto) Date: Tue, 21 Jun 2005 23:19:25 -0700 Subject: Scrollbar display In-Reply-To: <199.417bb050.2fe6b682@aol.com> References: <199.417bb050.2fe6b682@aol.com> Message-ID: At 7:52 AM -0400 6/19/2005, FlexibleLearning at aol.com wrote: >Anyone figured if we can apply a finer grain pattern (or preferably a block >10% grey) to a vertical and horizontal scrollbar? Or is this a built-in pseudo > control? Neither one. It's drawn by the operating system. (I don't know of any way for either Mac or Windows to accept a different value for the scrollbar background; I'm not sure about Unix GUIs. You may have to roll your own custom control that looks and behaves like a scrollbar.) -- jeanne a. e. devoto ~ revolution at jaedworks.com http://www.jaedworks.com From revolution at jaedworks.com Tue Jun 21 23:35:43 2005 From: revolution at jaedworks.com (Jeanne A. E. DeVoto) Date: Tue, 21 Jun 2005 20:35:43 -0700 Subject: variable checking? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: At 9:49 PM -0700 6/19/2005, Timothy Miller wrote: >In the interim -- a quick question. When I have a script open, I see >a menu item "script:variable checking" I can't find it in the >onboard documentation. No doubt it's useful at times. What does it >do? It turns on the explicitVariables property (and turns it off, I suppose, when you uncheck it). The property is documented, so you can get some info there. -- jeanne a. e. devoto ~ revolution at jaedworks.com http://www.jaedworks.com From vokey at uleth.ca Wed Jun 22 23:47:29 2005 From: vokey at uleth.ca (John Vokey) Date: Wed, 22 Jun 2005 21:47:29 -0600 Subject: the := operator (affectation) In-Reply-To: <20050622225112.E332193011B@mail.runrev.com> References: <20050622225112.E332193011B@mail.runrev.com> Message-ID: <4E367AAF-1DFB-4D72-98B9-47B4D0CE62EA@uleth.ca> It is fascinating to note that in R (GNU's S) the operator evolved from ``<-'' to ``='' despite the ambiguity of the latter (R has both assignment operators (<- and ->), but still simple ``='' won out. Why? Well, as with the letter ``e'' in English, nobody wants to type 2 characters for the most common operation of assignment; make the rarer cases clumsy, not the most common; hence ``=='' for ``is equal to (logical)''. I (tried to, anyway) taught Pascal for years; the two most common complaints were, in order, the assignment operator (i.e., ``:= is just stupid''), and ``that stupid semi-colon''. Often pristine syntax has to take a back-seat to expedience. OTH, allowing ``a=4'' as a shorthand for ``put 4 into a'' harms nobody, and meets with the expediency criterion; just don't require it. Similarly, no Basic compiler or interpreter ever had any problem discriminating logical statements from assignments, nor did programmers; it was a false purity that Pascal was promoting. Indeed, we exploited it: a=b*(c=2)+d*(c<>2), which to any Basic programmer (except those in which false meant -1, but simple accommodations in code fixed that), transparently means: a is assigned the value of b given c has the value of 2, otherwise, a is assigned the value of d. On 22-Jun-05, at 4:51 PM, use-revolution-request at lists.runrev.com wrote: > Yep > > On Jun 22, 2005, at 8:01 AM, Jon wrote: > > >> >> >> Dan Shafer wrote: >> >> >> >>> (I always found the whole ==, +=, :=, == syntax mess pretty ugly. >>> I love the elegance of put 32 into x.) >>> >>> >> >> >> Elegance, verbosity. Poe-tay-toe, poe-tah-toe... > - JRV -- There are 10 kinds of people: those who understand binary, and those who don't From stephenREVOLUTION at barncard.com Thu Jun 23 00:30:37 2005 From: stephenREVOLUTION at barncard.com (Stephen Barncard) Date: Wed, 22 Jun 2005 21:30:37 -0700 Subject: Mac vs PC .csv files In-Reply-To: <74FAFCDE-F683-4DCA-84E6-4C67C1E95966@writeme.com> References: <74FAFCDE-F683-4DCA-84E6-4C67C1E95966@writeme.com> Message-ID: Put the delimiter you want after each line instead of RETURN, then SAVE AS BINARY... otherwise rev will save as text, using the standard for your platform. >Thanks, Ken, Eric, and Jon, > >I was looking to create them in Rev. Importing and exporting them >from another program (Excel) is what I am doing now. > >Dennis From mwieder at ahsoftware.net Thu Jun 23 00:53:01 2005 From: mwieder at ahsoftware.net (Mark Wieder) Date: Wed, 22 Jun 2005 21:53:01 -0700 Subject: use-revolution Digest, Vol 21, Issue 131 In-Reply-To: References: <20050622225113.47A31930120@mail.runrev.com> Message-ID: <18548919893.20050622215301@ahsoftware.net> Jim- Wednesday, June 22, 2005, 5:57:53 PM, you wrote: JH> It should be red because it is still a coded letter like all the rest JH> of the coded letters in red. Interesting. Mine start out blue. Then when I try out a letter the corresponding letters all turn black. Double-clicking on it restores the encrypted letter, but then I have some letters in blue (the ones I haven't tried yet)and some in red (those that I've rejected). -- -Mark Wieder mwieder at ahsoftware.net From b.xavier at internet.lu Thu Jun 23 01:46:52 2005 From: b.xavier at internet.lu (MisterX) Date: Thu, 23 Jun 2005 07:46:52 +0200 Subject: compileIt for revolution? In-Reply-To: <42B9F9D8.4080302@fourthworld.com> Message-ID: <20050623050511.B20879300A6@mail.runrev.com> > And as Geoff Canyon discovered, you can go one step further > by drawing all polygons as a single object, but just > including a blank line in the points property wherever you > want a discontiguous object. Richard, true but i would have to n-tiply the math and time to draw each point (unless i grab it from a predrawn polygon. Extra step). As others mentioned there's also colors - but there is also a variable sized and colored border... And, then how do you do that for a circles? ;) Not efficient for this program... but for a few polygons it's good to know! cheers Xavier > -----Original Message----- > From: use-revolution-bounces at lists.runrev.com > [mailto:use-revolution-bounces at lists.runrev.com] On Behalf Of > Richard Gaskin > Sent: Thursday, June 23, 2005 01:53 > To: How to use Revolution > Subject: Re: compileIt for revolution? > > MisterX wrote: > > Gordon, > > > > Beware that even i surprise myself with newby tricks. > > > > I just posted a "slow" fractal moire maker. It creates beautiful > > patterns and the detail is amazing but it does so creating > some 40000 > > graphics in a card. For the truely beautiful patterns, it > took 300000 > > graphics! The making can still be optimized but deleting > images cannot > > be done like words in a field! Delete graphic 1 to -1 or > delete all graphics doesn't work. > > > > i have the patience to create these graphics and see them rendered. > > But when it comes to getting rid of them, no way! And the > > clearGraphics routine took foreever! 200 graphics per > second... You do > > the math - many minutes wasted waiting to create a better pattern. > > > > The trick was to create all the graphics in a group. > > when the graphic is done, delete the group. > > > > 300000 graphics deleted in 2 seconds. > > And as Geoff Canyon discovered, you can go one step further > by drawing all polygons as a single object, but just > including a blank line in the points property wherever you > want a discontiguous object. > > -- > Richard Gaskin > Fourth World Media Corporation > ___________________________________________________________ > Ambassador at FourthWorld.com http://www.FourthWorld.com > _______________________________________________ > use-revolution mailing list > use-revolution at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage > your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution > From eric.chatonet at sosmartsoftware.com Thu Jun 23 02:01:32 2005 From: eric.chatonet at sosmartsoftware.com (Eric Chatonet) Date: Thu, 23 Jun 2005 08:01:32 +0200 Subject: matchChunk to find fontNames In-Reply-To: <27A441C2-E36D-11D9-AA00-000A959BA7DC@fiberworld.nl> References: <27A441C2-E36D-11D9-AA00-000A959BA7DC@fiberworld.nl> Message-ID: <4C580DC6-FA4F-4EF9-A9CC-6D7E0A124B00@sosmartsoftware.com> Hi Claudi, I would not use matchText but would go straight on with 2 repeat loops to parse the html text: one with the fontNames: if tFont is in tText... Another one with tag styles: if "" is in tText... Less, less elegant :-( but should do the job :-) Best Regards from Paris, Eric Chatonet. Le 23 juin 05 ? 00:29, Claudi Cornaz a ?crit : > I am trying to implement a text menu and need to find all the > fontNames > and text attributes in the selectedChunk first to update my menu > and afterwards > to handle the choice. > As long as all the text has all the same attributes (bold / italic > etc) it's no problem > but I need also to find all the attributes when it's mixed. > > I have been trying to get the instances of > to extract all the parts like, the fontname, the size and the color > if applicable with matchChunk. > > I start to understand regex a little bit, but I still did not got > it to work just right. > > Here is what I got sofar to get the whole font face tag: > matchChunk(tText, "()", tStart, tEnd) > > Some fontNames have spaces or - in theire name but if I add them to > the regex like in the above example > the end goes on to far like: Stone Sans OS ITC TT-Bold" > color="#FF0000">zeker . . . . . . etc > > I tried to change the regex part with a $ at the end so it should > stop at the ">" char. > matchChunk(tText, "($)", tStart, tEnd) > > Well, no dice, now it finds nothing no more so obviously I am doing > something wrong. > How should this be done? > > Sugestions for a better way to find all the style runs are of > course very welcome as well, > since I just "thought" of this way to do it, in fact after quite > some thought this came as "best" solution > to my mind, but wether this is the best way to do it, well > probably not. > > Anyway much thanks in advance and all help appreciated ---------------------------------------------------------------- So Smart Software For institutions, companies and associations Built-to-order applications: management, multimedia, internet, etc. Windows, Mac OS and Linux... With the French touch Free plugins and tutorials on my website ---------------------------------------------------------------- Web site http://www.sosmartsoftware.com/ Email eric.chatonet at sosmartsoftware.com/ Phone 33 (0)1 43 31 77 62 Mobile 33 (0)6 20 74 50 86 ---------------------------------------------------------------- From yvescoppe at skynet.be Thu Jun 23 02:17:08 2005 From: yvescoppe at skynet.be (Yves COPPE) Date: Thu, 23 Jun 2005 08:17:08 +0200 Subject: The "sheet effect" In-Reply-To: <3F7147F4-D1ED-4180-9A98-FE47193AB8AC@wanadoo.fr> References: <458dd5644420a29846e6a6fa74be68bc@skynet.be> <39014820-78E6-46A8-AB81-8F54A1E78CB3@wanadoo.fr> <45A9F7CE-FC69-456E-A2DE-7A4523C61D8E@wanadoo.fr> <87a3e1609b2ad1fd9f38b8bda67ed0eb@skynet.be> <3F7147F4-D1ED-4180-9A98-FE47193AB8AC@wanadoo.fr> Message-ID: Le 22 juin 05, ? 23:37, ?ric Miclo a ?crit : > Hello, > > So I'll post it. > > Concerning the drawer window it's a little bit more stange: > > First create a stack and let's call it "Main" and a substack called > "Sub". > > If you set a button's script to: > > on mouseUp > drawer stack "Sub" > end mouseUp > > when clicked nothing happens. > > If you set another button's script to: > > on mouseUp > show stack "Sub" > end mouseUp > > it appears as a drawer with the drawer effect. > > If you click on the first button the drawer is closed with the drawer > effect and reopens but just popping without the drawer effect. > > I'll submit both of them. > Thank you. Greetings. Yves COPPE yvescoppe at skynet.be From ridge11103 at btinternet.com Thu Jun 23 02:18:44 2005 From: ridge11103 at btinternet.com (John Ridge) Date: Thu, 23 Jun 2005 07:18:44 +0100 Subject: Food Fight - Rev Name Space In-Reply-To: Message-ID: on 22/6/05 8:42 pm, Ken Ray wrote : Were you thinking of some formal [ANN]? I have no problem doing that; just wanted to know what you were thinking... ********************** Why not? It sounds like a potentially big issue that every scripter needs to know about, so [ANN] is appropriate. -- From b.xavier at internet.lu Thu Jun 23 02:32:46 2005 From: b.xavier at internet.lu (MisterX) Date: Thu, 23 Jun 2005 08:32:46 +0200 Subject: compileIt for revolution? In-Reply-To: <42BA0EEE.6000706@tweedly.net> Message-ID: <20050623055103.C0E9A930068@mail.runrev.com> whatever happened to the old metacard externals example (in the "examples" in the MCTools menu.)? It had lots of stuff - no explanations but it demoed a lot of good stuff... cheers Xavier > -----Original Message----- > From: use-revolution-bounces at lists.runrev.com > [mailto:use-revolution-bounces at lists.runrev.com] On Behalf Of > Alex Tweedly > Sent: Thursday, June 23, 2005 03:23 > To: How to use Revolution > Subject: Re: compileIt for revolution? > > Richard Gaskin wrote: > > > Derek Bump wrote: > > > >> If one who knows C and could figure out some sort of Transcript > >> wrapper, then it would be possible. There are many freeware and > >> public domain compilers out there, but finding one that > successfully > >> compiles DLLs for Revolution is seemingly difficult. I've been > >> trying for a few months now, but with my limited knowledge > of C I end > >> up running into errors. > >> > >> I am working on this project, but the *confusing* Externals SDK > >> doesn't help. > > > > > > What aspects have you found confusing? > > > This is only a start .... > > - Doesn't say which compilers should work (tells me some > that won't - but doesn't say which ones will - and in > particular, doesn't say which free ones will :-) > > (It kind of implies that many of them will, maybe even most > of them - but a short list of a few that are expected to work > would eliminate that as a possible explanation for troubles run into) > > - Includes a number of examples which are fragments of C > code, without any comments describing the interface being > provided, and without showing the corresponding Transcript > > - Include samples like XSetArray which is a function using > the "built-in" SetArray - but its parameters are never > explained, and still something of a mystery. > > - It doesn't include a "tiny, simple" example; I'd like to > see a very simple example - e.g. return the string "hello > program" - in a separate directory. Not doing OS specific > "GetComputerName", not calling QT, not .... just a very, very > simple example. With a correspondingly simple Rev stack, and > step-by-step instructions (not as detailed as I sent to this > list, but some kind of "here's the first thing to do" instructions). > > - it intermingles things which are (apart from exceptional > cases) "fixed" with things which are your own, without > distinguishing clearly - e.g. "There are two header files > you'll need to #include, XCmdGlue.h and external.h. ..." But > there is no "external.h" file included in the distribution - > it means the header file for your code, which will be > anything but "external.h" > > In fact, the distribution includes article.c and article.h - > what should happen is that article.c should #include the > article.h - but it doesn't, it #includes external.h - which > is non-existent, so you're guaranteed a compile failure at > step 1. Not likely to inspire confidence. > > - it uses examples where the C functions are named with > leading underscores - when prepended underscores was > described above as (one of > ) the reason(s) why the Borland compiler won't work > > - it includes extra functions that aren't referenced or used > (as far as I can tell). e.g. XGetVar and XGetArray are in > convolve_and_life.c - but I can't find anywhere they're used. > > > I wonder if a Rev tool set up for writing C, generating the > make file, > > and running GCC would address a lot of this with very > little effort.... > > > -- > Alex Tweedly http://www.tweedly.net > > > > -- > No virus found in this outgoing message. > Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. > Version: 7.0.323 / Virus Database: 267.7.8/22 - Release Date: > 17/06/2005 > > _______________________________________________ > use-revolution mailing list > use-revolution at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage > your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution > From mwieder at ahsoftware.net Thu Jun 23 02:39:01 2005 From: mwieder at ahsoftware.net (Mark Wieder) Date: Wed, 22 Jun 2005 23:39:01 -0700 Subject: compileIt for revolution? In-Reply-To: <3B0F173C-E5FA-49DC-9806-5220E6915E24@danshafer.com> References: <20050622165136.B64F7930157@mail.runrev.com> <16327279956.20050622155221@ahsoftware.net> <3B0F173C-E5FA-49DC-9806-5220E6915E24@danshafer.com> Message-ID: <4755280399.20050622233901@ahsoftware.net> Dan- Wednesday, June 22, 2005, 8:38:36 PM, you wrote: DS> I have a hard time seeing where you and I disagree here. I think DS> we're saying the same thing differently. Ah... that may be. But I'm pushing *for* a generic external interface, and you're arguing against it. -- -Mark Wieder mwieder at ahsoftware.net From martin at materiaprima.fsnet.co.uk Thu Jun 23 04:43:46 2005 From: martin at materiaprima.fsnet.co.uk (Martin Baxter) Date: Thu, 23 Jun 2005 09:43:46 +0100 Subject: Principles for User-Interface Design In-Reply-To: <1119479048.42b9e508089d8@staffmail.ed.ac.uk> References: <1119479048.42b9e508089d8@staffmail.ed.ac.uk> Message-ID: <42BA7642.5030601@materiaprima.fsnet.co.uk> Marielle Lange wrote: > Let's not start some arguing. Simple question: how many of you swear at your > computer. What platform are you using? If you happen to use different > platforms, how often do you swear when using each one of them > Right, few things are more boring than platform wars. I can honestly say that I swear at all my computers regularly, every day (24/7/365 - I take a day off in leap years) I swear at them for different reasons, but I detest them all equally. Once upon a time I had one computer and we had a mutually-supportive love affair and we were faithful to one another. But we grew old. Now I have a computer for every day of the week and they are all cheating on me behind my back. They are always dialling some server I know nothing about (and talking dirty I suspect). Sometimes they won't let me in without a password, and other times they just won't communicate with me in any way at all. Computers are from Venus, Men are from the funny-farm. Martin Baxter From M.Lange at ed.ac.uk Thu Jun 23 05:10:36 2005 From: M.Lange at ed.ac.uk (Marielle Lange) Date: Thu, 23 Jun 2005 10:10:36 +0100 Subject: matchChunk to find fontNames Message-ID: <1119517836.42ba7c8c75be2@staffmail.ed.ac.uk> Hi Claudi, You are on the right track... but you need to tune your regular expressions a bit. Problem 1: $ means end of the line (not end of the chunk) Problem 2: \" works with perl and unixy languages. I found it not to work with revolution. I usually use "" (replace each _\"_ with _" & quote & "_ if this doesn't work) >Some fontNames have spaces or - in theire name but if I add them to the >regex like in the above example >the end goes on to far like: Stone Sans OS ITC TT-Bold" >color="#FF0000">zeker . . . . . . etc >I tried to change the regex part with a $ at the end so it should stop >at the ">" char. matchChunk(tText, "($)", tStart, tEnd) >Well, no dice, now it finds nothing no more so obviously I am doing >something wrong. How should this be done? >Sugestions for a better way to find all the style runs are of course >very welcome as well, since I just "thought" of this way to do it, in fact >after quite some thought this came as "best" solution to my mind, but wether >this is the best way to do it, well probably not. From M.Lange at ed.ac.uk Thu Jun 23 06:08:45 2005 From: M.Lange at ed.ac.uk (Marielle Lange) Date: Thu, 23 Jun 2005 11:08:45 +0100 Subject: ANN Daily Crytoquote--my misspelling Message-ID: <1119521325.42ba8a2d37885@staffmail.ed.ac.uk> >> My dictionary of 61,000 words comes in at 592 K--similar >> to yours in size. The problem is that it includes a lot of words I've >> never heard of. For example the dictionary begins with the following: > >> aardvark, aardwolf, aba, abaca, abacist, aback, abacus, abaft, abalone, >> abamp, abampere, abandon, abandoned, abase, abash, abate, abatement, >> abatis, abattoir, abaxial, abb, abba, abbacy, abbatial >Well, FRELI won't help you there. It's got those too. Too bad we can't >write a regex that means "take out everything obscure." In the lexicall website, some databases have information about frequency and you have the possibility to enter a range of values of your choosing... you can select words to have a minimum frequency (trick these unusual words have a frequency of -1 or 0; if you take all words with a frequency under 10 you are pretty safe). If you use the url below, you will directly get to see the list of words which have a frequency of 10 or more. http://lexicall.org/repository/results.php?mtd_file=data%2F2_words%2Fenglish%2Fdb_mrc.mtd&flds%5B1%5D=WORD&minvals%5B5%5D=10&submit=Submit Make you enter it as a continuous line in your browser, the 500 words limit has been removed and will remain so for a week, so you will see the full list on your screen. Be patient - 10262 words. In the query above, the 10 corresponds to the minimum frequency value. You can try with higher and lower values and see when you get the list that best suits your needs. Marielle From M.Lange at ed.ac.uk Thu Jun 23 06:13:58 2005 From: M.Lange at ed.ac.uk (Marielle Lange) Date: Thu, 23 Jun 2005 11:13:58 +0100 Subject: the := operator (affectation Message-ID: <1119521638.42ba8b6699019@staffmail.ed.ac.uk> >OTH, allowing ``a=4'' as a shorthand for ``put 4 into a'' harms it. Hi John, I do often write myVar = x. But I like the fact that there is a different logic for properties and variables. set the width to 100 put 100 into myVar You would loose this with the x = 4 syntax. Marielle From eric.chatonet at sosmartsoftware.com Thu Jun 23 06:24:44 2005 From: eric.chatonet at sosmartsoftware.com (Eric Chatonet) Date: Thu, 23 Jun 2005 12:24:44 +0200 Subject: ANN Daily Crytoquote--my misspelling In-Reply-To: <1119521325.42ba8a2d37885@staffmail.ed.ac.uk> References: <1119521325.42ba8a2d37885@staffmail.ed.ac.uk> Message-ID: <7D1F6DC9-966B-4591-8F25-107C0D2F0400@sosmartsoftware.com> Hi Marielle, I am curious... So I had a look ;-) In fact, if you strip repeated words in your list, it is 5065 words long. Le 23 juin 05 ? 12:08, Marielle Lange a ?crit : > If you use the url below, you will directly get to see the list of > words which > have a frequency of 10 or more. > > http://lexicall.org/repository/results.php?mtd_file=data%2F2_words% > 2Fenglish%2Fdb_mrc.mtd&flds%5B1%5D=WORD&minvals%5B5% > 5D=10&submit=Submit > > Make you enter it as a continuous line in your browser, the 500 > words limit has > been removed and will remain so for a week, so you will see the > full list on > your screen. Be patient - 10262 words. Best Regards from Paris, Eric Chatonet. ---------------------------------------------------------------- So Smart Software For institutions, companies and associations Built-to-order applications: management, multimedia, internet, etc. Windows, Mac OS and Linux... With the French touch Free plugins and tutorials on my website ---------------------------------------------------------------- Web site http://www.sosmartsoftware.com/ Email eric.chatonet at sosmartsoftware.com/ Phone 33 (0)1 43 31 77 62 Mobile 33 (0)6 20 74 50 86 ---------------------------------------------------------------- From capellan2000 at yahoo.com Thu Jun 23 08:10:43 2005 From: capellan2000 at yahoo.com (Alejandro Tejada) Date: Thu, 23 Jun 2005 05:10:43 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Resources to learn C programming (was: compileIt for revolution?) In-Reply-To: <20050623004020.A84F7930116@mail.runrev.com> Message-ID: <20050623121043.96791.qmail@web40510.mail.yahoo.com> on Wed, 22 Jun 2005 Richard Gaskin wrote: > With only 27 keywords in the language, the learning > requirement for implementing those sorts of > algorithms in C is arguably much lower, and > there are infinitely more resources available to get > one started with C than with CompileItSpeak. For example, i've read this book written by Mike Westerfield, for ORCA C in Apple II and i like his writing style... :-D "Learn to program in C" But i've been not able to run his examples in any gnu compiler for windows. :-(( al Visit my site: http://www.geocities.com/capellan2000/ ____________________________________________________ Yahoo! Sports Rekindle the Rivalries. Sign up for Fantasy Football http://football.fantasysports.yahoo.com From dcragg at lacscentre.co.uk Thu Jun 23 08:20:36 2005 From: dcragg at lacscentre.co.uk (Dave Cragg) Date: Thu, 23 Jun 2005 13:20:36 +0100 Subject: Principles for User-Interface Design In-Reply-To: <42BA7642.5030601@materiaprima.fsnet.co.uk> References: <1119479048.42b9e508089d8@staffmail.ed.ac.uk> <42BA7642.5030601@materiaprima.fsnet.co.uk> Message-ID: On 23 Jun 2005, at 09:43, Martin Baxter wrote: > Marielle Lange wrote: > >> Let's not start some arguing. Simple question: how many of you >> swear at your >> computer. What platform are you using? If you happen to use different >> platforms, how often do you swear when using each one of them >> >> > > Right, few things are more boring than platform wars. I can > honestly say that I swear at all my computers regularly, every day > (24/7/365 - I take a day off in leap years) I swear at them for > different reasons, but I detest them all equally. > > Once upon a time I had one computer and we had a mutually- > supportive love affair and we were faithful to one another. But we > grew old. Now I have a computer for every day of the week and they > are all cheating on me behind my back. They are always dialling > some server I know nothing about (and talking dirty I suspect). > Sometimes they won't let me in without a password, and other times > they just won't communicate with me in any way at all. Computers > are from Venus, Men are from the funny-farm. > I see you lead an interesting life, Martin. :) I also dislike all my computers, but it's nothing compared to my feelings for printers. Cheers Dave From see3d at writeme.com Thu Jun 23 08:45:52 2005 From: see3d at writeme.com (Dennis Brown) Date: Thu, 23 Jun 2005 08:45:52 -0400 Subject: the := operator (affectation) In-Reply-To: <4E367AAF-1DFB-4D72-98B9-47B4D0CE62EA@uleth.ca> References: <20050622225112.E332193011B@mail.runrev.com> <4E367AAF-1DFB-4D72-98B9-47B4D0CE62EA@uleth.ca> Message-ID: <33B5FBE9-F170-48AB-91C7-C14E811F15AA@writeme.com> John, Of course you realize that if the = assignment operator was allowed in Transcript "put" would all but disappear from scripts. Who wants to type putinto vs =. Put would go the way of button vs btn. I find myself reversing my opinion on this one. "=" would make a nice shorthand notation. I was just concerned that the syntax would be ambiguous to people or compiler. If not, then why not have more compact scripts that are just as readable --just fix all the stupid little bugs before spending more than a day on this. Dennis On Jun 22, 2005, at 11:47 PM, John Vokey wrote: > It is fascinating to note that in R (GNU's S) the operator evolved > from ``<-'' to ``='' despite the ambiguity of the latter (R has > both assignment operators (<- and ->), but still simple ``='' won > out. Why? Well, as with the letter ``e'' in English, nobody wants > to type 2 characters for the most common operation of assignment; > make the rarer cases clumsy, not the most common; hence ``=='' for > ``is equal to (logical)''. I (tried to, anyway) taught Pascal for > years; the two most common complaints were, in order, the > assignment operator (i.e., ``:= is just stupid''), and ``that > stupid semi-colon''. Often pristine syntax has to take a back-seat > to expedience. > > OTH, allowing ``a=4'' as a shorthand for ``put 4 into a'' harms > nobody, and meets with the expediency criterion; just don't require > it. Similarly, no Basic compiler or interpreter ever had any > problem discriminating logical statements from assignments, nor did > programmers; it was a false purity that Pascal was promoting. > Indeed, we exploited it: a=b*(c=2)+d*(c<>2), which to any Basic > programmer (except those in which false meant -1, but simple > accommodations in code fixed that), transparently means: a is > assigned the value of b given c has the value of 2, otherwise, a is > assigned the value of d. > > On 22-Jun-05, at 4:51 PM, use-revolution-request at lists.runrev.com > wrote: > > >> Yep >> >> On Jun 22, 2005, at 8:01 AM, Jon wrote: >> >> >> >>> >>> >>> Dan Shafer wrote: >>> >>> >>> >>> >>>> (I always found the whole ==, +=, :=, == syntax mess pretty ugly. >>>> I love the elegance of put 32 into x.) >>>> >>>> >>>> >>> >>> >>> Elegance, verbosity. Poe-tay-toe, poe-tah-toe... >>> >> >> > > - JRV > -- > There are 10 kinds of people: those who understand binary, and > those who don't > > _______________________________________________ > use-revolution mailing list > use-revolution at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution > From jhurley at infostations.com Thu Jun 23 08:59:32 2005 From: jhurley at infostations.com (Jim Hurley) Date: Thu, 23 Jun 2005 05:59:32 -0700 Subject: ANN Daily Crytoquote--my misspelling In-Reply-To: <20050623041136.E656D9300F0@mail.runrev.com> References: <20050623041136.E656D9300F0@mail.runrev.com> Message-ID: > >Message: 8 >Date: Wed, 22 Jun 2005 21:41:08 -0500 >From: "J. Landman Gay" >Subject: Re: ANN Daily Crytoquote--my misspelling >To: How to use Revolution >Message-ID: <42BA2144.3070204 at hyperactivesw.com> >Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed > >On 6/22/05 8:39 PM, Jim Hurley wrote: > >> My dictionary of 61,000 words comes in at 592 K--similar >> to yours in size. The problem is that it includes a lot of words I've >> never heard of. For example the dictionary begins with the following: >> >> aardvark, aardwolf, aba, abaca, abacist, aback, abacus, abaft, abalone, >> abamp, abampere, abandon, abandoned, abase, abash, abate, abatement, >> abatis, abattoir, abaxial, abb, abba, abbacy, abbatial > >Well, FRELI won't help you there. It's got those too. Too bad we can't >write a regex that means "take out everything obscure." > >-- >Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com >HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com > >------------------------------ Jacque, What an enterprising person (not me) would do is take the text of several books and create a fequency-of-occurence list using Scott's algorithm, and then delete all words in the dictionary which don't have the necessary frequency. By encorporating you compression suggestion, the decoder stack dropped from 800K to 200K. RR is blazingly fast at decompression. Jim From jhurley at infostations.com Thu Jun 23 09:08:16 2005 From: jhurley at infostations.com (Jim Hurley) Date: Thu, 23 Jun 2005 06:08:16 -0700 Subject: ANN Daily Crytoquote--my misspelling In-Reply-To: <20050623041136.E656D9300F0@mail.runrev.com> References: <20050623041136.E656D9300F0@mail.runrev.com> Message-ID: > >Message: 18 >Date: Wed, 22 Jun 2005 21:53:01 -0700 >From: Mark Wieder >Subject: Re: use-revolution Digest, Vol 21, Issue 133 >Message-ID: <18548919893.20050622215301 at ahsoftware.net> >Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii > >Jim- > >Wednesday, June 22, 2005, 5:57:53 PM, you wrote: > >JH> It should be red because it is still a coded letter like all the rest >JH> of the coded letters in red. > >Interesting. Mine start out blue. Then when I try out a letter the >corresponding letters all turn black. Double-clicking on it restores >the encrypted letter, but then I have some letters in blue (the ones I >haven't tried yet)and some in red (those that I've rejected). > >-- >-Mark Wieder > mwieder at ahsoftware.net Mark, Now I understand you. I suspect I used a message box routine to initially set the color of the encoded field to red. Funny that didn't stick to the download. You might try setting them to red initially and see if it behaves as expected. I may repost the stack. There is also a problem if one drops a character onto a space by accident. And the size of the decoder substack can be cut by 75% using the compression suggestion of Jacque's. Jim From alex at tweedly.net Thu Jun 23 09:35:05 2005 From: alex at tweedly.net (Alex Tweedly) Date: Thu, 23 Jun 2005 14:35:05 +0100 Subject: Resources to learn C programming In-Reply-To: <20050623121043.96791.qmail@web40510.mail.yahoo.com> References: <20050623121043.96791.qmail@web40510.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <42BABA89.8040009@tweedly.net> Alejandro Tejada wrote: > >For example, i've read this book written >by Mike Westerfield, for ORCA C in Apple II >and i like his writing style... :-D > >"Learn to program in C" > > > >But i've been not able to run his examples >in any gnu compiler for windows. :-(( > > > Haven't seen that one. But in general my favourite writer's style is that of Donald Alcock, in his "Illustrating ..." series. I had the good fortune to work for him (as a summer job while at university - I learnt more in that 2 months than in most of the rest of the 4 years :-) That was when he was a civil engineer more than he was an author - but even then his writing style was unique and just plain fun. Writing in the first person, informal style for a reference manual for a stress analysis package was something of a breakthrough. And his insistence that hand-lettered text (almost calligraphy) was easier to read than printed text, and made the info easier to understand, was not something I was likely to learn in a university CS course. So I would definitely recommend "Illustrating C". -- Alex Tweedly http://www.tweedly.net -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.323 / Virus Database: 267.7.11/26 - Release Date: 22/06/2005 From rcozens at pon.net Thu Jun 23 09:35:23 2005 From: rcozens at pon.net (Rob Cozens) Date: Thu, 23 Jun 2005 06:35:23 -0700 Subject: compileIt for revolution? In-Reply-To: <5D2B36D7-6FB4-40B6-8BE5-3D5BE47F9C22@danshafer.com> References: <20050622170404.76336.qmail@web51107.mail.yahoo.com> <5D2B36D7-6FB4-40B6-8BE5-3D5BE47F9C22@danshafer.com> Message-ID: <6.2.1.2.1.20050623062308.01f295b0@pop3.pon.net> Dan, et al, > >programming language that is everything to everyone is nothing to >anyone. Not if it does the job. (You'd really like to switch between different programming environments to create bits and pieces of an application?) Isn't C a programming language that is everything to everyone? Is there something one cannot program in C alone? Why would any Transcript scriptor want to write externals in C or Pascal if she could use Transcript syntax instead? I think I've mentioned this before: Dan, I believe you, like moi, have suggested to C programmers new to Transcript that they will find Transcript's "verbose" syntax to be greatly more productive in terms of lines of code needed to accomplish a given task. So why would you want to use a different, less productive programming language to write externals? Would you feel the same if you had to write externals in Assembler or machine code? Rob Cozens "Wisdom entereth not into a malicious mind, and science without conscience is but the ruin of the soul." -- Fran?ois Rabelais (c. 1494-1553) From rcozens at pon.net Thu Jun 23 10:00:45 2005 From: rcozens at pon.net (Rob Cozens) Date: Thu, 23 Jun 2005 07:00:45 -0700 Subject: compileIt for revolution? In-Reply-To: <42BA021C.3090302@fourthworld.com> References: <20050622034955.C8E81930064@mail.runrev.com> <386EA08D-07BE-4754-AB4A-3616B73A9E9F@writeme.com> <42BA021C.3090302@fourthworld.com> Message-ID: <6.2.1.2.1.20050623064002.01f29320@pop3.pon.net> Richard, et al: >So instead CompileIt! had its own unique syntax and hundreds of symbols >one could use to implement things that were algorithmically very much like >one would do in Pascal or C. Of course this required a whole other level >of knowledge, and for those symbols related to the Mac Toolbox it also >required the dozen-volume set of Inside Mac books, and/or the more >efficient Think Library (which came with Think C) Are you talking about the same CompileIt! (Rev 2.6.1) I used for years? There was very little difference between HyperTalk and CompileIt! syntax, except for things HyperTalk didn't support: variable typing, record structures, system call "glue". My experience is that it is easily an order of magnitude more efficient to write externals in CompileIt! than C or Pascal--and I have professional experience programming in both other languages. If you are programming Mac Toolbox calls, you _will_ have to consult Inside Macintosh regardless of of the language you use. But one doesn't have to consult a dozen volumes unless one is implementing _all_ Toolbox calls. If I want to tap into Mac Program-to-Program Communications, for example, I need one volume: Interprocess Communication. Finally, CompileIt! does not have hundreds of symbols to complete its function...it includes hundreds of symbols that are _already_ defined in Inside Macintosh. If you're programming in another language, you will have to define the same symbols in an include file. I'm really sorry your experience with CompileIt! was such that you didn't get it. Rob Cozens, Staff Conservator Mendonoma Marine Life Conservancy "Every so often something strange happens on a stretch of Gulf coast shoreline. Fish, crabs, and shrimp all but throw themselves into the arms, baskets, and hand nets of people wading in the beach surf... In a few hours a single person can collect a hundred pounds of shrimp... Gulf folks call it a ''jubilee.'' The reality, at least for the sea's creatures, is less jubilant. They aren't presenting themselves as gifts to man but trying desperately to escape suffocation." -- Ocean's End From mikeythek at gmail.com Thu Jun 23 10:15:28 2005 From: mikeythek at gmail.com (Mikey) Date: Thu, 23 Jun 2005 10:15:28 -0400 Subject: compileIt for Revolution? In-Reply-To: <20050623024647.72190.qmail@web60514.mail.yahoo.com> References: <20050622213201.B939893010B@mail.runrev.com> <20050623024647.72190.qmail@web60514.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <9b408d8e05062307151adcb9c4@mail.gmail.com> > Try not to get your knickers in a twist. In case you haven't noticed, > hypertalk/transcript is clearly a Pascal derived language, they just got rid of > begin/end, loosely typed it, and made the operator of affectation verbose. OMG that's funny. Don't forget scoping, and the overarching paradigm of cards, backgrounds, stacks scripts, properties, and messages and an inheritence path, and the vocabulary, and the fact that nobody could describe what it was, and the fact that it was originally intended to be interpreted not compiled, and therefore DO, and oh hell. You weren't serious so I don't have to add anything here. I mean - really - I was pretty sure xTalk was inspired by COBOL's verbose syntax and...and... . Now that I look at it, I'm having a hard time telling the difference between BASIC and LISP and APL. Dude, you slay me. Ok, now in case you were serious (and if you were I'm sorry for laughing and making fun of your post) xTalk is now a legacy language type with expectations and conventions and philosophy. I'm reasonably sure that := doesn't fit that philosophy, nor does a=b. If you want compact, you need to go somewhere else. xTalk is intentionally verbose. Philosophically, I like it that way. It means that it is much easier for me to read someone else's code, especially since most of you can't write an intelligent comment in your code to save your lives. I'm going to stop reading this thread now before I REALLY get flamed. -- http://taoofrunrev.blogspot.com http://taoof4d.blogspot.com http://4dwishlist.blogspot.com On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth On the second day, God created the oceans. On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours, and did a little diving. And God said, "This is good." From revlist at cableone.net Thu Jun 23 10:38:26 2005 From: revlist at cableone.net (Chris Sheffield) Date: Thu, 23 Jun 2005 08:38:26 -0600 Subject: revCopyFile under Tiger In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <0E4C5E4B-6CA0-45ED-B4FA-5139DB3E1914@cableone.net> Thanks all. I probably will end up using the put method, as I intend to compress the files anyway. I was just curious about revCopyFile, and whether or not there was some way to suppress that audio. Sounds like there isn't, at least not right now. There must be some way of doing it, though, since you can disable those sounds as Devin explained (which I found right after I posted my initial message). Anyway, not a big deal, just kind of annoying if you have to copy several files right in a row. Thanks again, Chris On Jun 22, 2005, at 5:44 PM, Sarah Reichelt wrote: >> When using revCopyFile under 10.4.1, I'm getting the annoying >> sound that plays whenever you move/copy a file or folder to >> another location in the Finder. In my opinion, revCopyFile should >> not play that sound, but I'm sure it does just cause it uses >> system services to do the copy. >> >> Anyone found a way to make that sound not play? Preferably >> without having to disable something in the OS. What I'm doing is >> making a little backup utility, and copying files like that with >> that sound playing possibly hundreds of times is going to be >> *really* annoying, to say the least. >> >> > > AFAIK, revCopyFile uses AppleScript which calls the Finder, thereby > producing the Finder noises. Copying using put URL ... into URL ... > as Jacque suggested would get rid of this noise but might cause > permissions problems. > > A further untested suggestion would be to use the shell command, > which I think is cp: > get shell(cp sourceFile destinationFile) > > This MIGHT copy OS X bundles and I think it will preserve any > permissions. > > Cheers, > Sarah > > _______________________________________________ > use-revolution mailing list > use-revolution at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution > ------------------------------------------ Chris Sheffield Read Naturally The Fluency Company http://www.readnaturally.com ------------------------------------------ From jhurley at infostations.com Thu Jun 23 10:39:42 2005 From: jhurley at infostations.com (Jim Hurley) Date: Thu, 23 Jun 2005 07:39:42 -0700 Subject: ANN Daily Crytoquote--my misspelling In-Reply-To: <20050623132614.B4F6293010B@mail.runrev.com> References: <20050623132614.B4F6293010B@mail.runrev.com> Message-ID: > >Message: 9 >Date: Thu, 23 Jun 2005 11:08:45 +0100 >From: Marielle Lange >Subject: Re: ANN Daily Crytoquote--my misspelling >To: use-revolution at lists.runrev.com >Message-ID: <1119521325.42ba8a2d37885 at staffmail.ed.ac.uk> >Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-15 > >>> My dictionary of 61,000 words comes in at 592 K--similar >>> to yours in size. The problem is that it includes a lot of words I've >>> never heard of. For example the dictionary begins with the following: >> >>> aardvark, aardwolf, aba, abaca, abacist, aback, abacus, abaft, abalone, >>> abamp, abampere, abandon, abandoned, abase, abash, abate, abatement, >>> abatis, abattoir, abaxial, abb, abba, abbacy, abbatial > >>Well, FRELI won't help you there. It's got those too. Too bad we can't >>write a regex that means "take out everything obscure." > >In the lexicall website, some databases have information about >frequency and you >have the possibility to enter a range of values of your choosing... you can >select words to have a minimum frequency (trick these unusual words have a >frequency of -1 or 0; if you take all words with a frequency under 10 you are >pretty safe). > >If you use the url below, you will directly get to see the list of words which >have a frequency of 10 or more. > >http://lexicall.org/repository/results.php?mtd_file=data%2F2_words%2Fenglish%2Fdb_mrc.mtd&flds%5B1%5D=WORD&minvals%5B5%5D=10&submit=Submit > >Make you enter it as a continuous line in your browser, the 500 >words limit has >been removed and will remain so for a week, so you will see the full list on >your screen. Be patient - 10262 words. > >In the query above, the 10 corresponds to the minimum frequency value. You can >try with higher and lower values and see when you get the list that best suits >your needs. > >Marielle Marielle, This looks interesting. I tried your link, but my computer choked. I run on a 56K modem. With the little bit I did get, there were a lot of duplicates. (This would be easy to filter out though.) Is there some place that I can download the file without having to display it in the browser? Jim From mikeythek at gmail.com Thu Jun 23 10:41:36 2005 From: mikeythek at gmail.com (Mikey) Date: Thu, 23 Jun 2005 10:41:36 -0400 Subject: Printing Scripts PAINFUL Message-ID: <9b408d8e050623074150af97e5@mail.gmail.com> OK, ladies, I'm trying to print a script. However, on my printer the text winds up big (like 14 pt. plus), and it overruns the left margin, making the script unreadable. Suggestions? -- http://taoof4d.blogspot.com http://4dwishlist.blogspot.com On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth On the second day, God created the oceans. On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours, and did a little diving. And God said, "This is good." From kaveh at river-valley.com Thu Jun 23 11:01:20 2005 From: kaveh at river-valley.com (Kaveh Bazargan) Date: Thu, 23 Jun 2005 16:01:20 +0100 Subject: Can't see movies on rev site In-Reply-To: References: <1119479048.42b9e508089d8@staffmail.ed.ac.uk> <42BA7642.5030601@materiaprima.fsnet.co.uk> Message-ID: I am trying to look at the tutorial movies on the runrev site. I am using Tiger on OS X, and Quicktime Pro 7.0.1. I have downloaded and istalled the Ensharpen codec, but I hear only sound. There is no picture. I have tried looking through Revolution Online, but same problem. Any ideas? -- Kaveh Bazargan http://www.river-valley.com/ http://www.holographer.org/ From eric.chatonet at sosmartsoftware.com Thu Jun 23 11:04:28 2005 From: eric.chatonet at sosmartsoftware.com (Eric Chatonet) Date: Thu, 23 Jun 2005 17:04:28 +0200 Subject: Can't see movies on rev site In-Reply-To: References: <1119479048.42b9e508089d8@staffmail.ed.ac.uk> <42BA7642.5030601@materiaprima.fsnet.co.uk> Message-ID: Hi Kaveh, Did you restart? Don't know but can help :-) Le 23 juin 05 ? 17:01, Kaveh Bazargan a ?crit : > I am trying to look at the tutorial movies on the runrev site. I am > using > Tiger on OS X, and Quicktime Pro 7.0.1. I have downloaded and > istalled the > Ensharpen codec, but I hear only sound. There is no picture. I have > tried > looking through Revolution Online, but same problem. Best Regards from Paris, Eric Chatonet. ---------------------------------------------------------------- So Smart Software For institutions, companies and associations Built-to-order applications: management, multimedia, internet, etc. Windows, Mac OS and Linux... With the French touch Free plugins and tutorials on my website ---------------------------------------------------------------- Web site http://www.sosmartsoftware.com/ Email eric.chatonet at sosmartsoftware.com/ Phone 33 (0)1 43 31 77 62 Mobile 33 (0)6 20 74 50 86 ---------------------------------------------------------------- From YourSignup at Yahoo.com Thu Jun 23 11:11:06 2005 From: YourSignup at Yahoo.com (Jim Bufalini) Date: Thu, 23 Jun 2005 05:11:06 -1000 Subject: compileIt for revolution? In-Reply-To: <1066CB1F-9C63-4693-BDA9-5AF1ED6F93D3@danshafer.com> Message-ID: Guess I'll add my two cents. I'm a newbie to "Rev" (Revolution) but worked over 25 years in "Rev" (Revelation), another similar, high-typed, extensible, flexible, run as you program, script language. It's an implementation of Pick on the PC. I was considered an expert. I also owned a company and employed programmers. I too, have heard these discussions hundreds of times, over the years. Speed of execution rarely relates to code, or the language, or whether it's compiled, or in pcode or whatever. It always has to do with data, whether the data is in arrays, or a database, or whatever object. Any language can add 2 to 2 instantly, regardless of the syntax. You don't get speed by changing languages, or writing lengthy workarounds, or complaining about your tools. You get speed by designing, in advance, the layout of your data. This requires straight thinking. 1. Know what you are setting out to accomplish before you type one character of code (what are your client's (your) goals?). 2. Layout and optimize the data you are going to access BEFORE writing any code. How are you indexing the data? Is it real indexing or organization? 3. Now write your code. If you find yourself writing spaghetti code, STOP, go back to step 1. Jim -----Original Message----- From: use-revolution-bounces at lists.runrev.com [mailto:use-revolution-bounces at lists.runrev.com]On Behalf Of Dan Shafer Sent: Wednesday, June 22, 2005 12:12 PM To: How to use Revolution Subject: Re: compileIt for revolution? This whole discussion has been revealing and intriguing to me. My favorite programming language is Smalltalk. But before it was possible to create UIs for Smalltalk without writing code, I found it cumbersome. When a product called WindowBuilder came along, I felt like we'd achieved the ultimate development environment. In many ways, I still think that. Smalltalk had other problems, unfortunately, that made it great to code in, difficult to impossible to deploy. Then my second favorite language was Python. The GUI-building tools for Python are pathetic to non-existent. But the language is powerful and elegant and extends naturally. If the PythonCard project I was engaged in before I discovered Revolution had been on a fast track or complete, odds are I'd have never used Rev. Now I favor Transcript and RunRev. Building UIs is all but painless and 95% of what I want or need to do in creating apps is simple inside the elegance of Transcript. But Transcript isn't object- oriented. Two aphorisms came to mind as I read this entire thread again today. One is, "No good programmer uses only one tool for everything." The other is, "It's a poor workman who blames his tools." ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Dan Shafer, Revolution Consultant and Author http://www.shafermedia.com Get my book, "Revolution: Software at the Speed of Thought" From http://www.shafermedia.com/revolutionbooks.html _______________________________________________ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution at lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution From sbonham at georgiasouthern.edu Thu Jun 23 11:28:42 2005 From: sbonham at georgiasouthern.edu (Steve Bonham) Date: Thu, 23 Jun 2005 11:28:42 -0400 Subject: Printing Scripts PAINFUL In-Reply-To: <9b408d8e050623074150af97e5@mail.gmail.com> References: <9b408d8e050623074150af97e5@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: M, Have you selected: View > "Wrap long script lines" ? ...and under preferences you can choose font and size for scripts. It may be set to default- which may be causing the printing prob. S >OK, ladies, I'm trying to print a script. However, on my printer the >text winds up big (like 14 pt. plus), and it overruns the left margin, >making the script unreadable. Suggestions? >-- >http://taoof4d.blogspot.com >http://4dwishlist.blogspot.com >On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth >On the second day, God created the oceans. >On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours, > and did a little diving. >And God said, "This is good." >_______________________________________________ >use-revolution mailing list >use-revolution at lists.runrev.com >Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >subscription preferences: >http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution -- -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Steve Bonham Director, Faculty Technology Development Laboratory Center for Excellence in Teaching - Georgia Southern University Statesboro, GA 30460-8143 -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From kray at sonsothunder.com Thu Jun 23 11:28:01 2005 From: kray at sonsothunder.com (Ken Ray) Date: Thu, 23 Jun 2005 10:28:01 -0500 Subject: Printing Scripts PAINFUL In-Reply-To: <9b408d8e050623074150af97e5@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: On 6/23/05 9:41 AM, "Mikey" wrote: > OK, ladies, I'm trying to print a script. However, on my printer the > text winds up big (like 14 pt. plus), and it overruns the left margin, > making the script unreadable. Suggestions? Copy and paste it into a text editor and print from there, or use Alex Rice's MLXEditor which lets you use most text editors *as* your script editor. Ken Ray Sons of Thunder Software Web site: http://www.sonsothunder.com/ Email: kray at sonsothunder.com From stevo at apple.com Thu Jun 23 12:03:05 2005 From: stevo at apple.com (Steve Wright Jr.) Date: Thu, 23 Jun 2005 09:03:05 -0700 Subject: License key not saved between launches In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <99D6948B-0934-4828-8849-01E155136CFC@apple.com> Thank you to everyone who replied. Turns out I had evaluation versions of the license keys. Once they were replaced with commercial keys, the info is now saved across launches. Steve On Jun 21, 2005, at 12:49 PM, Steve Wright Jr. wrote: > I'm installing Revolution and Revolution Dreamcard 2.6 under Mac OS > X 10.4. At each launch, I'm prompted to enter my license key > information. It is never saved. > > I've verified with support folks that the privileges are set > properly on all the files and the directory containing them. The > license.rev file is not locked. > > This happens on a freshly-installed system, with a new copy of the > disk image from the Revolution web site, the Revolution directory > copied directly from the disk image into the Applications directory > at the root of the drive. > > Has anyone else run into this issue, and if so, how did you resolve > it? > > Thanks, > Steve > From bnz2 at cdc.gov Thu Jun 23 12:13:46 2005 From: bnz2 at cdc.gov (Lynch, Jonathan) Date: Thu, 23 Jun 2005 12:13:46 -0400 Subject: Choosing printer from within a script Message-ID: <64878EF567131D4596246171F75FD4A97445D6@m-epo-1.epo.cdc.gov> Is this possible in Windows? What I want to do is create a custom printer dialog. For the most part, that should not be too difficult. However, choosing which printer you want to print on is both important, and something for which I do not see an obvious technique. There does not appear to be any function like: Put the printers into field myField Or Set the printer to myPrinterName I would use the system printer dialog, except that it causes problems when trying to print multiple collated copies (windows 2000) - it only prints one copy. This means, if you want to print multiple copies, you have to print them unCollated, then collate them yourself after printing - very annoying. Are there shell commands that either return a list of available printers, and that allow you to pick your printer? From M.Lange at ed.ac.uk Thu Jun 23 12:29:31 2005 From: M.Lange at ed.ac.uk (Marielle Lange) Date: Thu, 23 Jun 2005 17:29:31 +0100 Subject: ANN Daily Crytoquote--my misspelling Message-ID: <1119544171.42bae36baaa03@staffmail.ed.ac.uk> >I am curious... So I had a look ;-) >In fact, if you strip repeated words in your list, it is 5065 words >long. It wouldn't be a big deal to write a revolution script to delete any repeated line, would it? Je parie que c'est ce que tu as fait [I bet it is what you have done]. All that lexicall.org website is work in progress (not progressing very much anymore). It was done on my hobby time, over a few week-ends... I produced a pilot good enough to interest funders and to justify a publication... but there is still ample room for improvement. The project I *really* want to realize is to give easy access from a web-aware standalone (rev, of course), so to be able to provide better functionalities (file opening, file saving, preferences saving, saving of a log which keep a trace of any query that you have run, etc.). So much could be done with revolution!!! If they were ready to pay me a salary over a year (for this project and similar ones) and give me some extra money to pay some of the members of this list for consultancy, they would get the productivity of at least 50% of researchers and teachers increased by at least 5%. *Sigh*. Guess what, that's exactly what I am currently trying to convince various decision bodies of. This bring me to... how much does consultancy cost, approximately, for a month worth of work (responses can be private, of course). Marielle From kaveh at river-valley.com Thu Jun 23 12:36:29 2005 From: kaveh at river-valley.com (Kaveh Bazargan) Date: Thu, 23 Jun 2005 17:36:29 +0100 Subject: Can't see movies on rev site In-Reply-To: References: <1119479048.42b9e508089d8@staffmail.ed.ac.uk> <42BA7642.5030601@materiaprima.fsnet.co.uk> Message-ID: At 17:04 +0200 23/6/05, Eric Chatonet wrote: >Hi Kaveh, > >Did you restart? >Don't know but can help :-) I did now, and it works. dohh! Thanks Eric. -- Kaveh Bazargan http://www.river-valley.com/ http://www.holographer.org/ From ambassador at fourthworld.com Thu Jun 23 12:53:26 2005 From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin) Date: Thu, 23 Jun 2005 09:53:26 -0700 Subject: the := operator (affectation In-Reply-To: <1119521638.42ba8b6699019@staffmail.ed.ac.uk> References: <1119521638.42ba8b6699019@staffmail.ed.ac.uk> Message-ID: <42BAE906.6050502@fourthworld.com> Marielle Lange wrote: >>OTH, allowing ``a=4'' as a shorthand for ``put 4 into a'' harms > > >>it. > > > Hi John, > > I do often write myVar = x. But I like the fact that there is a different logic > for properties and variables. > set the width to 100 > put 100 into myVar > > You would loose this with the x = 4 syntax. Since it would be optional as it is in other xTalks, nothing would be lost. -- Richard Gaskin Fourth World Media Corporation ___________________________________________________________ Ambassador at FourthWorld.com http://www.FourthWorld.com From ambassador at fourthworld.com Thu Jun 23 13:09:55 2005 From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin) Date: Thu, 23 Jun 2005 10:09:55 -0700 Subject: compileIt for Revolution? In-Reply-To: <9b408d8e05062307151adcb9c4@mail.gmail.com> References: <20050622213201.B939893010B@mail.runrev.com> <20050623024647.72190.qmail@web60514.mail.yahoo.com> <9b408d8e05062307151adcb9c4@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <42BAECE3.3030309@fourthworld.com> Mikey wrote: >>Try not to get your knickers in a twist. In case you haven't noticed, >>hypertalk/transcript is clearly a Pascal derived language, they just got rid of >>begin/end, loosely typed it, and made the operator of affectation verbose. > > OMG that's funny. FWIW, I've read that description almost verbatim from the man who created HyperTalk. -- Richard Gaskin Fourth World Media Corporation ___________________________________________________________ Ambassador at FourthWorld.com http://www.FourthWorld.com From eric.chatonet at sosmartsoftware.com Thu Jun 23 13:15:53 2005 From: eric.chatonet at sosmartsoftware.com (Eric Chatonet) Date: Thu, 23 Jun 2005 19:15:53 +0200 Subject: the := operator (affectation In-Reply-To: <42BAE906.6050502@fourthworld.com> References: <1119521638.42ba8b6699019@staffmail.ed.ac.uk> <42BAE906.6050502@fourthworld.com> Message-ID: <910225BF-C1F1-463C-B89D-8E94B29A7549@sosmartsoftware.com> Hello Richard, > Since it would be optional as it is in other xTalks, nothing would > be lost. Except the spirit :-) Grasp all, lose all... Le 23 juin 05 ? 18:53, Richard Gaskin a ?crit : > Marielle Lange wrote: > >>> OTH, allowing ``a=4'' as a shorthand for ``put 4 into a'' harms >>> >> > >>> it. >>> >> Hi John, >> I do often write myVar = x. But I like the fact that there is a >> different logic >> for properties and variables. >> set the width to 100 >> put 100 into myVar >> You would loose this with the x = 4 syntax. >> > > Since it would be optional as it is in other xTalks, nothing would > be lost. Best Regards from Paris, Eric Chatonet. ---------------------------------------------------------------- So Smart Software For institutions, companies and associations Built-to-order applications: management, multimedia, internet, etc. Windows, Mac OS and Linux... With the French touch Free plugins and tutorials on my website ---------------------------------------------------------------- Web site http://www.sosmartsoftware.com/ Email eric.chatonet at sosmartsoftware.com/ Phone 33 (0)1 43 31 77 62 Mobile 33 (0)6 20 74 50 86 ---------------------------------------------------------------- From see3d at writeme.com Thu Jun 23 13:17:49 2005 From: see3d at writeme.com (Dennis Brown) Date: Thu, 23 Jun 2005 13:17:49 -0400 Subject: the := operator (affectation In-Reply-To: <42BAE906.6050502@fourthworld.com> References: <1119521638.42ba8b6699019@staffmail.ed.ac.uk> <42BAE906.6050502@fourthworld.com> Message-ID: <02BAB77F-922D-4777-AF6B-B218390DAFE5@writeme.com> Here is an answer that everyone might like: The "get x" construct is already a syntactic equivalent of "it= x" (left assignment). That could be expanded to the general form "it gets x". Now we have a general xTalk flavored version using the new "gets" keyword. From there just substitute any shortcut for "gets" like "gts" or "=". There you have it. Elegance, consistency, and brevity! Dennis On Jun 23, 2005, at 12:53 PM, Richard Gaskin wrote: > Marielle Lange wrote: > >>> OTH, allowing ``a=4'' as a shorthand for ``put 4 into a'' harms >>> >> > >>> it. >>> >> Hi John, >> I do often write myVar = x. But I like the fact that there is a >> different logic >> for properties and variables. >> set the width to 100 >> put 100 into myVar >> You would loose this with the x = 4 syntax. >> > > Since it would be optional as it is in other xTalks, nothing would > be lost. > > -- > Richard Gaskin > Fourth World Media Corporation > ___________________________________________________________ > Ambassador at FourthWorld.com http://www.FourthWorld.com > _______________________________________________ > use-revolution mailing list > use-revolution at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution > From dsc at swcp.com Thu Jun 23 13:40:06 2005 From: dsc at swcp.com (Dar Scott) Date: Thu, 23 Jun 2005 11:40:06 -0600 Subject: the := operator (affectation In-Reply-To: <02BAB77F-922D-4777-AF6B-B218390DAFE5@writeme.com> References: <1119521638.42ba8b6699019@staffmail.ed.ac.uk> <42BAE906.6050502@fourthworld.com> <02BAB77F-922D-4777-AF6B-B218390DAFE5@writeme.com> Message-ID: <0c803bc64d5aa6c05097f3715c301ea2@swcp.com> On Jun 23, 2005, at 11:17 AM, Dennis Brown wrote: > The "get x" construct is already a syntactic equivalent of "it= x" > (left assignment). > That could be expanded to the general form "it gets x". > Now we have a general xTalk flavored version using the new "gets" > keyword. > From there just substitute any shortcut for "gets" like "gts" or "=". > > There you have it. Elegance, consistency, and brevity! There is nothing elegant about "=" for assignment. IMHO, ":=" is much superior and is less offensive. In mathematics "=" is a relation or sometimes a function or sometimes used in "where" or "let" syntax (named value scoping). Commands in xTalk follow the English implied-you imperatives. The deviation from that to a descriptive of the dataflow does not fit. I come from a functional programming background, but I accept the imperative style. Dar -- ********************************************** DSC (Dar Scott Consulting & Dar's Lab) http://www.swcp.com/dsc/ Programming and software ********************************************** From dsc at swcp.com Thu Jun 23 13:49:05 2005 From: dsc at swcp.com (Dar Scott) Date: Thu, 23 Jun 2005 11:49:05 -0600 Subject: the := operator (affectation In-Reply-To: <1119521638.42ba8b6699019@staffmail.ed.ac.uk> References: <1119521638.42ba8b6699019@staffmail.ed.ac.uk> Message-ID: On Jun 23, 2005, at 4:13 AM, Marielle Lange wrote: > But I like the fact that there is a different logic > for properties and variables. > set the width to 100 > put 100 into myVar I'm curious as to why you like the different syntaxes? I sometimes accidently try to use 'put' when I need 'set'. The 'the' word can differentiate, so 'set' is redundant. Redundancy can be good; it catches errors. However, in this case the word 'set' and the word 'the' are next to each other. We might consider making 'the' optional, but it is needed in expressions containing properties. Perhaps there is a model or view that I'm missing that 'set' and 'put into' differentiate. Perhaps one advantage of 'set' over 'put' is that it emphasizes that chunks are not allowed. I don't know why they would not be if we have a simple "as if" model of what happens. I would not mind if 'put' be allowed for properties and even chunks were allowed. Dar -- ********************************************** DSC (Dar Scott Consulting & Dar's Lab) http://www.swcp.com/dsc/ Programming and software ********************************************** From M.Lange at ed.ac.uk Thu Jun 23 13:54:35 2005 From: M.Lange at ed.ac.uk (Marielle Lange) Date: Thu, 23 Jun 2005 18:54:35 +0100 Subject: ANN Daily Crytoquote--my misspelling Message-ID: <1119549275.42baf75be16c2@staffmail.ed.ac.uk> >What an enterprising person (not me) would do is take the text of >several books and create a fequency-of-occurence list using Scott's >algorithm, and then delete all words in the dictionary which don't >have the necessary frequency. Jim, Excellent suggestion. In fact, it is exactly what the guys from the MRC database have done, back in 1981. This work has been repeated by different teams more than 20 times ;-). The best resource in this area being Celex (English, Dutch, German) -- web interface at: http://www.mpi.nl/world/celex/, but more complex to use than the trick I gave you. Okay, I don't use my academic signature on this list. Okay, I avoid to play it; sometimes I even play it dumb. Seriously, you have one of the world experts in lexical databases on this list. Don't be an entreprising person... ask. I have 2GB of lexical databases and more than 200 scripts to extract all informations you can think of from these lexical databases on my computer. This is my job. If you don't seem to need more than a not too long list of words, I provide no more than that. If you need a solution to any other problem, I either aleady have it or know where you can find what you need. If you want to write an application for kids and limit the words you use to ones that are understood by kids of a given age, I can provide this (this is called Age of Acquisition). If you want to only select easy or difficult to imagine words, to design a pictionary-like game (with some items being easy or difficult to draw), I can provide this (this is called imageability or meaningfullness). If you need words that are part of a same semantic category (for instance clothing items), I can provide this (check out wordnet http://wordnet.princeton.edu/). If you need a list of homophones, homographs, synonyms, etc. I have that on my computer. If you want to write a rhyming book or an application to help kids learn reading (phonics method), I can provide you with the full lists of words which have a specific letter-sound relationship in them: http://www.psy.unsw.edu.au/Users/mlange/GPC/GPC_EN/GPC.html (click on one line on the left, you will have all the words that contain that grapheme-phoneme relationship in them -- a grapheme is a unit of spelling that matches a unit of sound, like ai in pain) It's just that I am an academic. My job security and promotion prospects depend on the papers I publish. I am not supposed to spend any of my time sharing these resources or even knowledge about these resources more largely :-/. I mean, I am encouraged by existing european funding etc., but good researchers know they need to avoid to spend time doing something that doesn't lead to a publication in a well-ranked journal. So, for about 4 years now, I have had about a meter high pile with a printout of page 1 of any website that contains information about words. Because I am an academic, this remains in my office. Yes, I find it stupid too. I find that even more stupid when I get to read papers published by colleagues who would have done research of better quality if they had known about some of these resources. Worse, as a brilliant academic I am just about to submit a big, thick paper which demonstrates that in my field, we have been for the last 20 years providing solutions sometimes simple, sometimes elaborate to a wrongly specified problem (in short, we have been studying one-syllable words only; models efficient at reading one-syllable words are not at two syllable words -- it's more complex than speech synthesis, this is about integrating findings from patients with brain damage, accounting for various word properties like meaning, explaining the learning of reading, explaining second language acquisition, etc., etc.). In short, a better analysis is needed but this would require skills and tools that only about 10-20% of my colleagues have. Just a year of funding and what could be done!!! Ok, I say goodbye to a promising career. That's fine by me. I do more for the advancement of my field and possibly of science than I would ever be able to do on the brilliant academic career path. Nothing in the world is as soft and yielding as water, Yet nothing can better overcome the hard and strong, For they can neither control nor do away with it. The soft overcomes the hard, The yielding overcomes the strong; Every person knows this, But no one can practice it. Who attends to the people would control the land and grain; Who attends to the state would control the whole world; Truth is easily hidden by rhetoric. (From the Tao Te Ching) ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Marielle Lange (PhD), Psycholinguistics, Lecturer in Psychology and Informatics University of Edinburgh, UK Homepage: http://homepages.inf.ed.ac.uk/mlange/ Lexicall project: http://lexicall.org Revolution-education project: http://revolution.lexicall.org From kray at sonsothunder.com Thu Jun 23 14:00:55 2005 From: kray at sonsothunder.com (Ken Ray) Date: Thu, 23 Jun 2005 13:00:55 -0500 Subject: TIP: isImagLoaded function In-Reply-To: <20050622060850.962A5930065@mail.runrev.com> Message-ID: On 6/22/05 1:50 AM, "MisterX" wrote: > Hi all! > > Here's a couple new TAOO XOSMediaLib functions im sure many are going to > enjoy! > > However I know this one feature is much needed so i can release it outside > the TAOO framework. > > here's the little add-on-script i made to see if an image existed or was > loaded and by what stack. > > To use it, just script > > get imageNameexists(987654) > get imageidexists(987654) > > -- it will return which stack or false. The problem is that this doesn't handle images anywhere other than the "current" card of a stack, and they have to be raw images sitting on the card (i.e. not in substacks or groups, etc.). So you should expand your code Xavier to support *any* images in a stack, otherwise the purpose of the code (to find if there is an image loaded of a particular ID) is defeated. You have a good framework to get this working - you just need to expand on it. Ken Ray Sons of Thunder Software Web site: http://www.sonsothunder.com/ Email: kray at sonsothunder.com From wmb at internettrainer.com Thu Jun 23 14:03:41 2005 From: wmb at internettrainer.com (Wolfgang M. Bereuter) Date: Thu, 23 Jun 2005 20:03:41 +0200 Subject: Resources to learn C programming In-Reply-To: <42BABA89.8040009@tweedly.net> References: <20050623121043.96791.qmail@web40510.mail.yahoo.com> <42BABA89.8040009@tweedly.net> Message-ID: Alex, On 23.06.2005, at 15:35, Alex Tweedly wrote: > Haven't seen that one. But in general my favourite writer's style > is that of Donald Alcock, in his "Illustrating ..." series. I had > the good fortune to work for him (as a summer job while at > university - I learnt more in that 2 months than in most of the > rest of the 4 years :-) That was when he was a civil engineer more > than he was an author - but even then his writing style was unique > and just plain fun. > > Writing in the first person, informal style for a reference manual > for a stress analysis package was something of a breakthrough. And > his insistence that hand-lettered text (almost calligraphy) was > easier to read than printed text, and made the info easier to > understand, was not something I was likely to learn in a university > CS course. > > So I would definitely recommend "Illustrating C". Thanks for that tip, Alex! Simply great!! (that?s really brainfriendly learning) I had a lok at this book at Amazon. I understoond in a few minutes, why you have learned more from this guy in 2 month, than from others in years... Thanks again! regards Wolfgang M. Bereuter T-mapping? is PhotoLearning Mindmaps! ............................... http://www.internettrainer.com wmb at internettrainer.com ............................... Edelhofg. 17/11, A-1180 Wien, Austria Tel: ++43/1/ 479 6410 Fax: ++43/1/ 955 14 64-198 From M.Lange at ed.ac.uk Thu Jun 23 14:04:22 2005 From: M.Lange at ed.ac.uk (Marielle Lange) Date: Thu, 23 Jun 2005 19:04:22 +0100 Subject: ANN Daily Crytoquote--my misspelling Message-ID: <1119549862.42baf9a6d053c@staffmail.ed.ac.uk> Jim, A suggestion: In your application, put the crypted version in uppercase and the uncrypted version in lower case. Studies shows that it is easier to recognize words when they are in the usual (lowercase) format. (Besner, D., Davelaar, E., Alcott, D., & Parry, P. (1984). Wholistic reading of alphabetic print: Evidence from the FDM and the FBI. In L. Henderson (Ed.), Orthographies and reading: Perspectives from cognitive psychology, neuropsychology, and linguistics (pp. 121-135). London: Erlbaum.) Also, I couldn't figure out how to take a letter out. I dropped and dragged and dropped a B, randomly, but I was unable to move it around, afterwards, or put it back in the set of unused letters (didn't try long, though). Marielle From b.xavier at internet.lu Thu Jun 23 14:13:00 2005 From: b.xavier at internet.lu (MisterX) Date: Thu, 23 Jun 2005 20:13:00 +0200 Subject: TIP: isImagLoaded function In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20050623173122.929AE93010C@mail.runrev.com> Ken, Wrong, it, scans all the stacks (listed in the windows variable)... Of course i have a bit more advanced version coming which will scan known and substacks and etc... ;) cheers Xavier > -----Original Message----- > From: use-revolution-bounces at lists.runrev.com > [mailto:use-revolution-bounces at lists.runrev.com] On Behalf Of Ken Ray > Sent: Thursday, June 23, 2005 20:01 > To: Use Revolution List > Subject: Re: TIP: isImagLoaded function > > On 6/22/05 1:50 AM, "MisterX" wrote: > > > Hi all! > > > > Here's a couple new TAOO XOSMediaLib functions im sure many > are going > > to enjoy! > > > > However I know this one feature is much needed so i can release it > > outside the TAOO framework. > > > > here's the little add-on-script i made to see if an image > existed or > > was loaded and by what stack. > > > > To use it, just script > > > > get imageNameexists(987654) > > get imageidexists(987654) > > > > -- it will return which stack or false. > > The problem is that this doesn't handle images anywhere other > than the "current" card of a stack, and they have to be raw > images sitting on the card (i.e. not in substacks or groups, etc.). > > So you should expand your code Xavier to support *any* images > in a stack, otherwise the purpose of the code (to find if > there is an image loaded of a particular ID) is defeated. You > have a good framework to get this working - you just need to > expand on it. > > Ken Ray > Sons of Thunder Software > Web site: http://www.sonsothunder.com/ > Email: kray at sonsothunder.com > > _______________________________________________ > use-revolution mailing list > use-revolution at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage > your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution > From ambassador at fourthworld.com Thu Jun 23 14:17:20 2005 From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin) Date: Thu, 23 Jun 2005 11:17:20 -0700 Subject: the := operator (affectation In-Reply-To: <910225BF-C1F1-463C-B89D-8E94B29A7549@sosmartsoftware.com> References: <1119521638.42ba8b6699019@staffmail.ed.ac.uk> <42BAE906.6050502@fourthworld.com> <910225BF-C1F1-463C-B89D-8E94B29A7549@sosmartsoftware.com> Message-ID: <42BAFCB0.6030503@fourthworld.com> Eric Chatonet wrote: > Hello Richard, > >> Since it would be optional as it is in other xTalks, nothing would be >> lost. > > > Except the spirit :-) > Grasp all, lose all... With the current flexibility of xTalk, we can choose to write: put 1 + tMyVar into tMyVar ..or we can write: add 1 to tMyVar Does it necessarily diminish the language to have these options? I save my religion for Sundays.... -- Richard Gaskin Fourth World Media Corporation ___________________________________________________________ Ambassador at FourthWorld.com http://www.FourthWorld.com From kray at sonsothunder.com Thu Jun 23 14:18:53 2005 From: kray at sonsothunder.com (Ken Ray) Date: Thu, 23 Jun 2005 13:18:53 -0500 Subject: Choosing printer from within a script In-Reply-To: <64878EF567131D4596246171F75FD4A97445D6@m-epo-1.epo.cdc.gov> Message-ID: On 6/23/05 11:13 AM, "Lynch, Jonathan" wrote: > > Are there shell commands that either return a list of available > printers, and that allow you to pick your printer? You can use VBScript for this, and run VBScript from Rev. Here's a page where they talk about getting the list of printers (EnumPrinterConnections): http://www.computerperformance.co.uk/Logon/logon_enumprinterconnections.htm To call VBS from Rev, you basically create a file with the extension ".vbs" (through put url("file:") or open file/write file/close file) and then execute it, and then delete it (so it doesn't lie around). Here's what I use: function doVBS pVBScript,pDirectConsole if pDirectConsole = "" then put "C:\vbs_temp.vbs" into tVBSPath put pVBScript into url ("file:" & tVBSPath) set the hideConsoleWindows to true get shell("cscript.exe //nologo" && tVBSPath) else set the hideConsoleWindows to true get shell("cscript.exe" && pVBScript) end if put it into tResult if there is a file tVBSPath then send "delete file" && quote & tVBSPath & quote to me in 1 second end if if tResult <> "" then return tResult end doVBS HTH, Ken Ray Sons of Thunder Software Web site: http://www.sonsothunder.com/ Email: kray at sonsothunder.com From engleerica at yahoo.com Thu Jun 23 14:20:16 2005 From: engleerica at yahoo.com (Eric Engle) Date: Thu, 23 Jun 2005 11:20:16 -0700 (PDT) Subject: compileIt for Revolution? In-Reply-To: <20050623160005.C526E930139@mail.runrev.com> Message-ID: <20050623182016.31751.qmail@web60513.mail.yahoo.com> > Message: 2 > Date: Thu, 23 Jun 2005 10:15:28 -0400 > From: Mikey > Subject: Re: compileIt for Revolution? > To: How to use Revolution > Message-ID: <9b408d8e05062307151adcb9c4 at mail.gmail.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 > > > Try not to get your knickers in a twist. In case you haven't noticed, > > hypertalk/transcript is clearly a Pascal derived language, they just got > rid of > > begin/end, loosely typed it, and made the operator of affectation verbose. > OMG that's funny. Don't forget scoping, and the overarching > paradigm of cards, backgrounds, stacks scripts, properties, and > messages and an inheritence path, and the vocabulary, and the fact > that nobody could describe what it was, and the fact that it was > originally intended to be interpreted not compiled, and therefore DO, > and oh hell. You weren't serious so I don't have to add anything > here. I mean - really - I was pretty sure xTalk was inspired by > COBOL's verbose syntax and...and... . Now > that I look at it, I'm having a hard time telling the difference > between BASIC and LISP and APL. Dude, you slay me. > > Ok, now in case you were serious (and if you were I'm sorry for > laughing and making fun of your post) xTalk is now a legacy language > type with expectations and conventions and philosophy. I'm reasonably > sure that := doesn't fit that philosophy, nor does a=b. If you want > compact, you need to go somewhere else. xTalk is intentionally > verbose. Philosophically, I like it that way. It means that it is > much easier for me to read someone else's code, especially since most > of you can't write an intelligent comment in your code to save your > lives. > > I'm going to stop reading this thread now before I REALLY get flamed. Well, yes, that might be a good idea actually. Intelligent debates are generally dispassionate and reasonable since intelligent people are after the truth as opposed to stroking their ego. You might have heard of the maxim "Fortiter in re , suaviter in modo." If not, look it up. In any event: think about it. Substantively, I stand by my story: xTalk is a scripting language which is clearly derived from Pascal. Don't take my word for it though; get a copy of think pascal (it's free) and look at its debugger and hypercards, its script formatter and hypercards. Or, just read wikipedia. "HyperTalk scripts are fairly similar to written English, and use a logic structure similar to the Pascal programming language." http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HyperTalk "HyperTalk is the scripting language of HyperCard and its clones. It is similar in syntax to Pascal, and "includes enough object-like data structures and programming aids to make it a quite useful development environment" (Allen 103)." http://www.iath.virginia.edu/elab/hfl0133.html There's even an entire article on macTech "Comparing HyperTalk to Pascal" which says, "Both Pascal and HyperTalk provide powerful if-then-else control structures with very similar syntax." "The specification and calling of user defined functions in Pascal and HyperTalk is almost identical." http://www.mactech.com/articles/mactech/Vol.04/04.09/HyperTalk,Pascal/ "Based on the comparisons presented above between Pascal and HyperTalk, it should be clear that HyperTalk is indeed a powerful language with many similarities to Pascal." I could keep looking, but I think I've made my point. __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com From jerry at daniels-mara.com Thu Jun 23 14:23:32 2005 From: jerry at daniels-mara.com (Jerry Daniels) Date: Thu, 23 Jun 2005 13:23:32 -0500 Subject: compileIt for revolution? In-Reply-To: <6.2.1.2.1.20050623064002.01f29320@pop3.pon.net> References: <20050622034955.C8E81930064@mail.runrev.com> <386EA08D-07BE-4754-AB4A-3616B73A9E9F@writeme.com> <42BA021C.3090302@fourthworld.com> <6.2.1.2.1.20050623064002.01f29320@pop3.pon.net> Message-ID: <0198e4f228883d14b01d0ce6880d42a7@daniels-mara.com> CompileIt! lovers and haters... YESTERDAY I would have to agree with Rob, here. I used CompileIt! to the point where I made a small C app that RAN externals only and I would get CompileIt! to compile into that app (called HyperApp). I then wrote a front end (in CompileIt!) to write and manage my code in. I've moved a great deal of my code management features from it into Constellation (www.daniels-mara.com/products). The CompileIt! Xternal performance (if there weren't too many text call backs) was breath-taking. Tom Pittman created a great tool there. The early versions were slow to compile and frustrating, but the the last versions were killer and had a very good debugger. Tom Pittman DID write CompileIt! in 68000 assembler using HyperTalk to do that! He was a purist indeed. I learned a tremendous amount about everyday coding using pointers, handles, bitwise math and bunches of goodies--all in my fav lingua, HyperTalk. As a tool, today it would be tremendously helpful. TODAY Doing CompileIt! today would be challenging in a multiplatform environs, because one of the great parts of CompileIt was its toolbox access. HOWEVER, HyperCard had its own toolbox, too. PERHAPS Rev has such a thing that we could call from externals and shield us from the individual API's for the varous platform. These HyperCard callbacks were binary callbacks with data-typed params, so they were every bit as fast as C or a OS toolbox call. WIth Revolution binary callbacks from XCMDs the task of creating a compiler and debugger might be a bit more manageable and certainly would be a fun project. TOMORROW Enough history and what-if's! BOTTOM LINE: I'm interested. My company (Daniels & Mara, creators of Constellation) would be interested in discussing a commercial venture. Not sure I'm all that interested in an open-source, design-by-committee free-for-all, I'd, of course, prefer a real project with direction and technical/financial purpose. There are several large hurdles in the process. Let's keep this discussion going. Best, Jerry On Jun 23, 2005, at 9:00 AM, Rob Cozens wrote: > Richard, et al: > >> So instead CompileIt! had its own unique syntax and hundreds of >> symbols one could use to implement things that were algorithmically >> very much like one would do in Pascal or C. Of course this required a >> whole other level of knowledge, and for those symbols related to the >> Mac Toolbox it also required the dozen-volume set of Inside Mac >> books, and/or the more efficient Think Library (which came with Think >> C) > > Are you talking about the same CompileIt! (Rev 2.6.1) I used for > years? There was very little difference between HyperTalk and > CompileIt! syntax, except for things HyperTalk didn't support: > variable typing, record structures, system call "glue". > > My experience is that it is easily an order of magnitude more > efficient to write externals in CompileIt! than C or Pascal--and I > have professional experience programming in both other languages. If > you are programming Mac Toolbox calls, you _will_ have to consult > Inside Macintosh regardless of of the language you use. But one > doesn't have to consult a dozen volumes unless one is implementing > _all_ Toolbox calls. If I want to tap into Mac Program-to-Program > Communications, for example, I need one volume: Interprocess > Communication. > > Finally, CompileIt! does not have hundreds of symbols to complete its > function...it includes hundreds of symbols that are _already_ defined > in Inside Macintosh. If you're programming in another language, you > will have to define the same symbols in an include file. > > I'm really sorry your experience with CompileIt! was such that you > didn't get it. > > Rob Cozens, Staff Conservator > Mendonoma Marine Life Conservancy > > "Every so often something strange happens on a stretch of Gulf coast > shoreline. Fish, crabs, and shrimp all but throw themselves into the > arms, baskets, and hand nets of people wading in the beach surf... In > a few hours a single person can collect a hundred pounds of shrimp... > Gulf folks call it a ''jubilee.'' The reality, at least for the sea's > creatures, is less jubilant. They aren't presenting themselves as > gifts to man but trying desperately to escape suffocation." > > -- Ocean's End > _______________________________________________ > use-revolution mailing list > use-revolution at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution > From bnz2 at cdc.gov Thu Jun 23 14:23:42 2005 From: bnz2 at cdc.gov (Lynch, Jonathan) Date: Thu, 23 Jun 2005 14:23:42 -0400 Subject: Choosing printer from within a script Message-ID: <64878EF567131D4596246171F75FD4A946A2E0@m-epo-1.epo.cdc.gov> Thanks Ken! What versions of windows allow you to use Vbscript in this way? I see many uses for such a thing. -----Original Message----- From: use-revolution-bounces at lists.runrev.com [mailto:use-revolution-bounces at lists.runrev.com] On Behalf Of Ken Ray Sent: Thursday, June 23, 2005 2:19 PM To: Use Revolution List Subject: Re: Choosing printer from within a script On 6/23/05 11:13 AM, "Lynch, Jonathan" wrote: > > Are there shell commands that either return a list of available > printers, and that allow you to pick your printer? You can use VBScript for this, and run VBScript from Rev. Here's a page where they talk about getting the list of printers (EnumPrinterConnections): http://www.computerperformance.co.uk/Logon/logon_enumprinterconnections. htm To call VBS from Rev, you basically create a file with the extension ".vbs" (through put url("file:") or open file/write file/close file) and then execute it, and then delete it (so it doesn't lie around). Here's what I use: function doVBS pVBScript,pDirectConsole if pDirectConsole = "" then put "C:\vbs_temp.vbs" into tVBSPath put pVBScript into url ("file:" & tVBSPath) set the hideConsoleWindows to true get shell("cscript.exe //nologo" && tVBSPath) else set the hideConsoleWindows to true get shell("cscript.exe" && pVBScript) end if put it into tResult if there is a file tVBSPath then send "delete file" && quote & tVBSPath & quote to me in 1 second end if if tResult <> "" then return tResult end doVBS HTH, Ken Ray Sons of Thunder Software Web site: http://www.sonsothunder.com/ Email: kray at sonsothunder.com _______________________________________________ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution at lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution From kray at sonsothunder.com Thu Jun 23 14:24:47 2005 From: kray at sonsothunder.com (Ken Ray) Date: Thu, 23 Jun 2005 13:24:47 -0500 Subject: TIP: isImagLoaded function In-Reply-To: <20050623173122.929AE93010C@mail.runrev.com> Message-ID: On 6/23/05 1:13 PM, "MisterX" wrote: > Ken, > > Wrong, it, scans all the stacks (listed in the windows variable)... You misunderstood me, Xavier. I didn't say that it only scanned one stack. I said that it wasn't comprehensive enough to be useful. When you ask for: put the number of images in stack You don't get all the images on all cards of the stack - only the "current" card (whatever is the one you'd see when the stack opens), and it doesn't go into groups, etc. You can see this by making a simple stack, import one image onto card 1, then two on card 2, then navigate back to card 1 and ask for the "number of images" -- you get '1'... so that means there are two images on card 2 that don't get included in your global, and so the purpose of the function is meaningless. > Of course i have a bit more advanced version coming which will scan known > and substacks and etc... ;) As long as the "etc" makes it comprehensive, that's great - otherwise it is of little use, IMHO, because it promises something it can't deliver. Ken Ray Sons of Thunder Software Web site: http://www.sonsothunder.com/ Email: kray at sonsothunder.com From see3d at writeme.com Thu Jun 23 14:41:43 2005 From: see3d at writeme.com (Dennis Brown) Date: Thu, 23 Jun 2005 14:41:43 -0400 Subject: Mac vs PC .csv files In-Reply-To: References: <74FAFCDE-F683-4DCA-84E6-4C67C1E95966@writeme.com> Message-ID: <7280D697-C54D-4A78-91F6-03892221AE64@writeme.com> Thanks, I think I got the idea now. I am sure I can generate the right format .csv for PCs now. Dennis On Jun 23, 2005, at 12:30 AM, Stephen Barncard wrote: > Put the delimiter you want after each line instead of RETURN, then > SAVE AS BINARY... > otherwise rev will save as text, using the standard for your platform. > > >> Thanks, Ken, Eric, and Jon, >> >> I was looking to create them in Rev. Importing and exporting them >> from another program (Excel) is what I am doing now. >> >> Dennis >> > _______________________________________________ > use-revolution mailing list > use-revolution at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution > From b.xavier at internet.lu Thu Jun 23 14:44:08 2005 From: b.xavier at internet.lu (MisterX) Date: Thu, 23 Jun 2005 20:44:08 +0200 Subject: TIP: isImagLoaded function In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20050623180226.8603B930143@mail.runrev.com> OOPS! I assumed images were stack-global! Slap me again! I'll fix it later ;) cheers Xavier > -----Original Message----- > From: use-revolution-bounces at lists.runrev.com > [mailto:use-revolution-bounces at lists.runrev.com] On Behalf Of Ken Ray > Sent: Thursday, June 23, 2005 20:25 > To: Use Revolution List > Subject: Re: TIP: isImagLoaded function > > On 6/23/05 1:13 PM, "MisterX" wrote: > > > Ken, > > > > Wrong, it, scans all the stacks (listed in the windows variable)... > > You misunderstood me, Xavier. I didn't say that it only > scanned one stack. I said that it wasn't comprehensive enough > to be useful. When you ask for: > > put the number of images in stack > > You don't get all the images on all cards of the stack - only > the "current" > card (whatever is the one you'd see when the stack opens), > and it doesn't go into groups, etc. You can see this by > making a simple stack, import one image onto card 1, then two > on card 2, then navigate back to card 1 and ask for the > "number of images" -- you get '1'... so that means there are > two images on card 2 that don't get included in your global, > and so the purpose of the function is meaningless. > > > Of course i have a bit more advanced version coming which will scan > > known and substacks and etc... ;) > > As long as the "etc" makes it comprehensive, that's great - > otherwise it is of little use, IMHO, because it promises > something it can't deliver. > > Ken Ray > Sons of Thunder Software > Web site: http://www.sonsothunder.com/ > Email: kray at sonsothunder.com > > _______________________________________________ > use-revolution mailing list > use-revolution at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage > your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution > From katir at hindu.org Thu Jun 23 01:49:41 2005 From: katir at hindu.org (Sivakatirswami) Date: Wed, 22 Jun 2005 19:49:41 -1000 Subject: Images in Customproperties In-Reply-To: <24D19BA6-5FD5-4FD2-80BE-3A9CEFC80321@major-k.de> References: <3d8af415050621205345b0f312@mail.gmail.com> <3d8af415050621215246786665@mail.gmail.com> <24D19BA6-5FD5-4FD2-80BE-3A9CEFC80321@major-k.de> Message-ID: This is interesting... I'm curious where multiple instances of a single image object are needed, what would be the advantages of storing images in customproperties, vs using Rev's option (admittedly a "unicornian" one, but it works really well.) to set the icon of a button to the id of an image. I use this a lot, where the image library is simply imported into a substack that the user never sees....and whenever we want to show it, we simply us a button.... Sivakatirswami On Jun 21, 2005, at 11:04 PM, Klaus Major wrote: > Hi Glen, > > >> Scott, >> >> This is more at what I was getting at. I made a simple error in >> thinking that the image "tower" when stored as a custom property also >> had its custom properties stored...NOT. >> >> Thanks for the enlightenment. >> >> Any thoughts on my other question...if I stored an image from my >> hard drive >> >> set the Antennas[Site] of image "map" to URL "binfile:radio.png" >> >> How can I place this image from my custom property at a later time >> onto a card? >> > > simply "put" it into any image :-) > > ... > ##create img "my img" on cd y, if necessary > put the Antennas[Site] of image "map" of cd x into img "my img" of > cd y > ... > > Done :-) > > > Regards > > Klaus Major > klaus at major-k.de > http://www.major-k.de > > _______________________________________________ > use-revolution mailing list > use-revolution at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution > From katir at hindu.org Thu Jun 23 02:17:34 2005 From: katir at hindu.org (Sivakatirswami) Date: Wed, 22 Jun 2005 20:17:34 -1000 Subject: Confirm Long File Name Bug in Player Object Message-ID: <96F7CACF-EA61-4190-BE0E-E234356F03C2@hindu.org> Can someone quickly confirm this ( bugzilled already) ... a bit of a serious problem for me at the moment: a) get an .mp3 file... any will do. Make sure the number of chars in the file name (inclusive of extension) is < 33 e.g. someFoo.mp3 b) set some player "test" to this file and confirm it plays as expected on a start player "test" c) now go to the finder (OSX, Tiger) and change the file name to somefoo0123435678901234567890123456789.mp3 d) now go back, set the player object to this same file which now has a file name with >33 chars... e) start player "test" here, the player object is now simply "dead".... go back... truncate the file name to <33 chars... try again... now it works.. Sivakatirswami From scott at tactilemedia.com Thu Jun 23 15:08:28 2005 From: scott at tactilemedia.com (Scott Rossi) Date: Thu, 23 Jun 2005 12:08:28 -0700 Subject: Confirm Long File Name Bug in Player Object In-Reply-To: <96F7CACF-EA61-4190-BE0E-E234356F03C2@hindu.org> Message-ID: Recently, Sivakatirswami wrote: > Can someone quickly confirm this ( bugzilled already) ... a bit of a > serious problem for me at the moment: > > a) get an .mp3 file... any will do. Make sure the number of chars in > the file name (inclusive of extension) is < 33 > > e.g. someFoo.mp3 > > b) set some player "test" to this file and confirm it plays as > expected on a > > start player "test" > > c) now go to the finder (OSX, Tiger) and change the file name to > > somefoo0123435678901234567890123456789.mp3 > > d) now go back, set the player object to this same file which now > has a file name with >33 chars... > > e) start player "test" > > here, the player object is now simply "dead".... go back... truncate > the file name to <33 chars... try again... now it works.. Confirmed, as of November last year. Also, try adding special characters to the file name, such as "-" or "(". These broke playback for me at the time. I would set this at Blocker status because it prevents playback of otherwise playable media. Regards, Scott Rossi Creative Director Tactile Media, Multimedia & Design ----- E: scott at tactilemedia.com W: http://www.tactilemedia.com From pevensen at siboneylg.com Thu Jun 23 15:14:57 2005 From: pevensen at siboneylg.com (Peter T. Evensen) Date: Thu, 23 Jun 2005 14:14:57 -0500 Subject: Confirm Long File Name Bug in Player Object In-Reply-To: References: <96F7CACF-EA61-4190-BE0E-E234356F03C2@hindu.org> Message-ID: <6.2.1.2.2.20050623141222.20a6e078@exchange.slg.com> I am also noticing, on Mac, at least, the refusal to load images that are reference by long name. For example, a file named "Critical Thinking Instructions.png" will not load, but a file named "Critical Thinking Instr.png" will. I haven't played around with enough to see if it is the file name or the whole path. Has anyone else seen this? At 02:08 PM 6/23/2005, you wrote: >Recently, Sivakatirswami wrote: > > > Can someone quickly confirm this ( bugzilled already) ... a bit of a > > serious problem for me at the moment: > > > > a) get an .mp3 file... any will do. Make sure the number of chars in > > the file name (inclusive of extension) is < 33 > > > > e.g. someFoo.mp3 > > > > b) set some player "test" to this file and confirm it plays as > > expected on a > > > > start player "test" > > > > c) now go to the finder (OSX, Tiger) and change the file name to > > > > somefoo0123435678901234567890123456789.mp3 > > > > d) now go back, set the player object to this same file which now > > has a file name with >33 chars... > > > > e) start player "test" > > > > here, the player object is now simply "dead".... go back... truncate > > the file name to <33 chars... try again... now it works.. > >Confirmed, as of November last year. > >Also, try adding special characters to the file name, such as "-" or "(". >These broke playback for me at the time. > >I would set this at Blocker status because it prevents playback of otherwise >playable media. > >Regards, > >Scott Rossi >Creative Director >Tactile Media, Multimedia & Design >----- >E: scott at tactilemedia.com >W: http://www.tactilemedia.com > >_______________________________________________ >use-revolution mailing list >use-revolution at lists.runrev.com >Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >subscription preferences: >http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution Peter T. Evensen http://www.PetersRoadToHealth.com 24-hour recorded info hotline: 1-800-624-7671 From eric.chatonet at sosmartsoftware.com Thu Jun 23 15:20:52 2005 From: eric.chatonet at sosmartsoftware.com (Eric Chatonet) Date: Thu, 23 Jun 2005 21:20:52 +0200 Subject: the := operator (affectation In-Reply-To: <42BAFCB0.6030503@fourthworld.com> References: <1119521638.42ba8b6699019@staffmail.ed.ac.uk> <42BAE906.6050502@fourthworld.com> <910225BF-C1F1-463C-B89D-8E94B29A7549@sosmartsoftware.com> <42BAFCB0.6030503@fourthworld.com> Message-ID: <73923EE5-FCE4-4B57-B4F9-BD0527BB76D1@sosmartsoftware.com> Hi Richard, Don't think it's a problem of religion :-) Or you want to maintain an "every day" language or you want to allow specialists languages come in. As for me I don't mind : I use both. But I think that all guys who invented Xtalks principles would not agree. In fact, if some distorsions could win over the purists of minimalist programming, I should not be worried ;-) But I am a writer too: So I love words... and hate when they are replaced with simple maths operations. Some civilization question ? Best Regards from Paris, Eric Chatonet. Le 23 juin 05 ? 20:17, Richard Gaskin a ?crit : > Eric Chatonet wrote: > >> Hello Richard, >> >>> Since it would be optional as it is in other xTalks, nothing >>> would be lost. >>> >> Except the spirit :-) >> Grasp all, lose all... >> > > With the current flexibility of xTalk, we can choose to write: > > put 1 + tMyVar into tMyVar > > ..or we can write: > > add 1 to tMyVar > > Does it necessarily diminish the language to have these options? > > I save my religion for Sundays.... ---------------------------------------------------------------- So Smart Software For institutions, companies and associations Built-to-order applications: management, multimedia, internet, etc. Windows, Mac OS and Linux... With the French touch Free plugins and tutorials on my website ---------------------------------------------------------------- Web site http://www.sosmartsoftware.com/ Email eric.chatonet at sosmartsoftware.com/ Phone 33 (0)1 43 31 77 62 Mobile 33 (0)6 20 74 50 86 ---------------------------------------------------------------- From eric.chatonet at sosmartsoftware.com Thu Jun 23 15:25:22 2005 From: eric.chatonet at sosmartsoftware.com (Eric Chatonet) Date: Thu, 23 Jun 2005 21:25:22 +0200 Subject: Confirm Long File Name Bug in Player Object In-Reply-To: <6.2.1.2.2.20050623141222.20a6e078@exchange.slg.com> References: <96F7CACF-EA61-4190-BE0E-E234356F03C2@hindu.org> <6.2.1.2.2.20050623141222.20a6e078@exchange.slg.com> Message-ID: <05A1F906-72D8-4CEF-9B98-C8511618E5E0@sosmartsoftware.com> Hello Peter, Assuming Mac OS... "Critical Thinking Instructions.png" is 34 chars (you have to count the extension) "Critical Thinking Instr.png" is 27 chars. The limit is 31 :-) Le 23 juin 05 ? 21:14, Peter T. Evensen a ?crit : > I am also noticing, on Mac, at least, the refusal to load images > that are reference by long name. For example, a file named > "Critical Thinking Instructions.png" will not load, but a file > named "Critical Thinking Instr.png" will. I haven't played around > with enough to see if it is the file name or the whole path. Best Regards from Paris, Eric Chatonet. ---------------------------------------------------------------- So Smart Software For institutions, companies and associations Built-to-order applications: management, multimedia, internet, etc. Windows, Mac OS and Linux... With the French touch Free plugins and tutorials on my website ---------------------------------------------------------------- Web site http://www.sosmartsoftware.com/ Email eric.chatonet at sosmartsoftware.com/ Phone 33 (0)1 43 31 77 62 Mobile 33 (0)6 20 74 50 86 ---------------------------------------------------------------- From klaus at major-k.de Thu Jun 23 15:30:17 2005 From: klaus at major-k.de (Klaus Major) Date: Thu, 23 Jun 2005 21:30:17 +0200 Subject: Confirm Long File Name Bug in Player Object In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <9153673A-9ED6-4926-B38D-C92CA621FA04@major-k.de> Hi all, > Recently, Sivakatirswami wrote: > >> Can someone quickly confirm this ( bugzilled already) ... a bit of a >> serious problem for me at the moment: >> >> a) get an .mp3 file... any will do. Make sure the number of chars in >> the file name (inclusive of extension) is < 33 >> ... >> somefoo0123435678901234567890123456789.mp3 >> >> ... >> here, the player object is now simply "dead".... go back... truncate >> the file name to <33 chars... try again... now it works.. >> > > Confirmed, as of November last year. > Also, try adding special characters to the file name, such as "-" > or "(". > These broke playback for me at the time. like german umlauts and french accents... > I would set this at Blocker status because it prevents playback of > otherwise > playable media. > > Regards, > > Scott Rossi > Creative Director > Tactile Media, Multimedia & Design > ----- > E: scott at tactilemedia.com > W: http://www.tactilemedia.com this is bug nr. 396 as of 2003-08-20 and it is still marked as NEW!? C'mon RunRev! http://support.runrev.com/bugdatabase/show_bug.cgi?id=396 Mark, i am sure you read this, this is not acceptable and a real blocker especially in non english speaking countries like germany with its lots of umlauts etc... PLEASE resolve this one as soon as possible, PLEASE!!! Regards Klaus Major klaus at major-k.de http://www.major-k.de From higginsta at mac.com Thu Jun 23 15:39:59 2005 From: higginsta at mac.com (Todd Higgins) Date: Thu, 23 Jun 2005 15:39:59 -0400 Subject: Confirm Long File Name Bug in Player Object In-Reply-To: <05A1F906-72D8-4CEF-9B98-C8511618E5E0@sosmartsoftware.com> References: <96F7CACF-EA61-4190-BE0E-E234356F03C2@hindu.org> <6.2.1.2.2.20050623141222.20a6e078@exchange.slg.com> <05A1F906-72D8-4CEF-9B98-C8511618E5E0@sosmartsoftware.com> Message-ID: Is there a technical reason for Revolution having a 31 char limit in Mac OS X? Obviously the OS and filesystem support longer file names (256 chars) and there must be other Carbon application that support long filenames. Todd On Jun 23, 2005, at 3:25 PM, Eric Chatonet wrote: > Hello Peter, > > Assuming Mac OS... > > "Critical Thinking Instructions.png" is 34 chars (you have to count > the extension) > "Critical Thinking Instr.png" is 27 chars. > The limit is 31 :-) > > Le 23 juin 05 ? 21:14, Peter T. Evensen a ?crit : > > >> I am also noticing, on Mac, at least, the refusal to load images >> that are reference by long name. For example, a file named >> "Critical Thinking Instructions.png" will not load, but a file >> named "Critical Thinking Instr.png" will. I haven't played around >> with enough to see if it is the file name or the whole path. >> > > Best Regards from Paris, > > Eric Chatonet. > ---------------------------------------------------------------- > So Smart Software > > For institutions, companies and associations > Built-to-order applications: management, multimedia, internet, etc. > Windows, Mac OS and Linux... With the French touch > > Free plugins and tutorials on my website > ---------------------------------------------------------------- > Web site http://www.sosmartsoftware.com/ > Email eric.chatonet at sosmartsoftware.com/ > Phone 33 (0)1 43 31 77 62 > Mobile 33 (0)6 20 74 50 86 > ---------------------------------------------------------------- > > _______________________________________________ > use-revolution mailing list > use-revolution at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution > From mwieder at ahsoftware.net Thu Jun 23 15:48:17 2005 From: mwieder at ahsoftware.net (Mark Wieder) Date: Thu, 23 Jun 2005 12:48:17 -0700 Subject: compileIt for Revolution? In-Reply-To: <20050623182016.31751.qmail@web60513.mail.yahoo.com> References: <20050623182016.31751.qmail@web60513.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <3014803956.20050623124817@ahsoftware.net> Eric- Thursday, June 23, 2005, 11:20:16 AM, you wrote: EE> There's even an entire article on macTech "Comparing HyperTalk to Pascal" which EE> says, EE> "Both Pascal and HyperTalk provide powerful if-then-else control structures EE> with very similar syntax." EE> "The specification and calling of user defined functions in Pascal and EE> HyperTalk is almost identical." EE> http://www.mactech.com/articles/mactech/Vol.04/04.09/HyperTalk,Pascal/ EE> "Based on the comparisons presented above between Pascal and HyperTalk, it EE> should be clear that HyperTalk is indeed a powerful language with many EE> similarities to Pascal." EE> I could keep looking, but I think I've made my point. Er... hardly. Conditionals are what makes something a programming language. This is what separates, for example, basic from html. Simply saying that a language has an if-then-else contstruct doesn't make it Pascal. Also, at the time the MacTech article was written Pascal was *the* way to program the Macintosh. Those of us programming in Lightspeed C had to shoehorn our routines in to match the Pascal routines in the toolbox. The articles of that vintage were aimed at the "all right... you know how to program the Mac in Pascal, here's where HyperTalk differs from it and how it's similar" audience, so the comparisons are de rigeur. *Especially* since the article is titled "Comparing HyperTalk to Pascal". -- -Mark Wieder mwieder at ahsoftware.net From mwieder at ahsoftware.net Thu Jun 23 15:50:35 2005 From: mwieder at ahsoftware.net (Mark Wieder) Date: Thu, 23 Jun 2005 12:50:35 -0700 Subject: the := operator (affectation In-Reply-To: <0c803bc64d5aa6c05097f3715c301ea2@swcp.com> References: <1119521638.42ba8b6699019@staffmail.ed.ac.uk> <42BAE906.6050502@fourthworld.com> <02BAB77F-922D-4777-AF6B-B218390DAFE5@writeme.com> <0c803bc64d5aa6c05097f3715c301ea2@swcp.com> Message-ID: <5014942345.20050623125035@ahsoftware.net> Dar- Thursday, June 23, 2005, 10:40:06 AM, you wrote: DS> Commands in xTalk follow the English implied-you imperatives. The DS> deviation from that to a descriptive of the dataflow does not fit. I DS> come from a functional programming background, but I accept the DS> imperative style. Exactly. The verbose xtalk form makes the assignment unambiguous, where C, for example, had to resort to the confusing "==" operator in order to disambiguate things. -- -Mark Wieder mwieder at ahsoftware.net From lists at mangomultimedia.com Thu Jun 23 15:51:21 2005 From: lists at mangomultimedia.com (Trevor DeVore) Date: Thu, 23 Jun 2005 12:51:21 -0700 Subject: Confirm Long File Name Bug in Player Object In-Reply-To: References: <96F7CACF-EA61-4190-BE0E-E234356F03C2@hindu.org> <6.2.1.2.2.20050623141222.20a6e078@exchange.slg.com> <05A1F906-72D8-4CEF-9B98-C8511618E5E0@sosmartsoftware.com> Message-ID: <052eb224df2c43a69c18624809da84d8@mangomultimedia.com> On Jun 23, 2005, at 12:39 PM, Todd Higgins wrote: > Is there a technical reason for Revolution having a 31 char limit in > Mac OS X? Obviously the OS and filesystem support longer file names > (256 chars) and there must be other Carbon application that support > long filenames. Revolution is most likely still using the FSSpec file structure with QuickTime. QuickTime 6 introduced new movie storage functions that support all of the fancy long names but the Rev code needs to be updated to determine if QT 6 is installed and then use the appropriate functions. -- Trevor DeVore Blue Mango Multimedia trevor at mangomultimedia.com From see3d at writeme.com Thu Jun 23 15:57:04 2005 From: see3d at writeme.com (Dennis Brown) Date: Thu, 23 Jun 2005 15:57:04 -0400 Subject: the := operator (affectation In-Reply-To: <0c803bc64d5aa6c05097f3715c301ea2@swcp.com> References: <1119521638.42ba8b6699019@staffmail.ed.ac.uk> <42BAE906.6050502@fourthworld.com> <02BAB77F-922D-4777-AF6B-B218390DAFE5@writeme.com> <0c803bc64d5aa6c05097f3715c301ea2@swcp.com> Message-ID: Dar, I am not arguing for "=", I am arguing for "gets" and some shortcut that suits, if any. "Gets" is a cousin of "get" command that is already a left assignment operator. It does not introduce a new concept to the syntax, but just makes the "get" construct more general. I actually find it a bit awkward when I have used the "get x" construct, then decide later to use another variable instead of "it". The editing is a lot more than just changing variable names. I have even taken to "put x into it" on occasion, just so I can more easily change my mind later. I would be happy to be able to change "get x" to "myVariable gets x". Dennis On Jun 23, 2005, at 1:40 PM, Dar Scott wrote: > > On Jun 23, 2005, at 11:17 AM, Dennis Brown wrote: > > >> The "get x" construct is already a syntactic equivalent of "it= >> x" (left assignment). >> That could be expanded to the general form "it gets x". >> Now we have a general xTalk flavored version using the new "gets" >> keyword. >> From there just substitute any shortcut for "gets" like "gts" or "=". >> >> There you have it. Elegance, consistency, and brevity! >> > > There is nothing elegant about "=" for assignment. IMHO, ":=" is > much superior and is less offensive. In mathematics "=" is a > relation or sometimes a function or sometimes used in "where" or > "let" syntax (named value scoping). > > Commands in xTalk follow the English implied-you imperatives. The > deviation from that to a descriptive of the dataflow does not fit. > I come from a functional programming background, but I accept the > imperative style. > > Dar > -- > ********************************************** > DSC (Dar Scott Consulting & Dar's Lab) > http://www.swcp.com/dsc/ > Programming and software > ********************************************** > > _______________________________________________ > use-revolution mailing list > use-revolution at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution > From klaus at major-k.de Thu Jun 23 16:26:41 2005 From: klaus at major-k.de (Klaus Major) Date: Thu, 23 Jun 2005 22:26:41 +0200 Subject: Confirm Long File Name Bug in Player Object In-Reply-To: <052eb224df2c43a69c18624809da84d8@mangomultimedia.com> References: <96F7CACF-EA61-4190-BE0E-E234356F03C2@hindu.org> <6.2.1.2.2.20050623141222.20a6e078@exchange.slg.com> <05A1F906-72D8-4CEF-9B98-C8511618E5E0@sosmartsoftware.com> <052eb224df2c43a69c18624809da84d8@mangomultimedia.com> Message-ID: <50083164-F9A5-45DF-9715-7FD29AD656A1@major-k.de> Hi Trevor, > On Jun 23, 2005, at 12:39 PM, Todd Higgins wrote: > >> Is there a technical reason for Revolution having a 31 char limit >> in Mac OS X? Obviously the OS and filesystem support longer file >> names (256 chars) and there must be other Carbon application that >> support long filenames. > Revolution is most likely still using the FSSpec file structure > with QuickTime. Exactly! http://support.runrev.com/bugdatabase/show_bug.cgi?id=396 That's exactly what Tuviah mentioned here: ------- Additional Comment #1 From Tuviah Snyder 2003-08-22 21:23 ------- right this is because we using fsspecs..we plan to look into fixing the 32 char filepath limitation (either use unix paths or fsrefs) in the next release. > QuickTime 6 introduced new movie storage functions that support all > of the fancy long names but the Rev code needs to be updated to > determine if QT 6 is installed and then use the appropriate functions. > > > -- > Trevor DeVore > Blue Mango Multimedia > trevor at mangomultimedia.com Regards Klaus Major klaus at major-k.de http://www.major-k.de From pevensen at siboneylg.com Thu Jun 23 16:55:41 2005 From: pevensen at siboneylg.com (Peter T. Evensen) Date: Thu, 23 Jun 2005 15:55:41 -0500 Subject: Confirm Long File Name Bug in Player Object In-Reply-To: <50083164-F9A5-45DF-9715-7FD29AD656A1@major-k.de> References: <96F7CACF-EA61-4190-BE0E-E234356F03C2@hindu.org> <6.2.1.2.2.20050623141222.20a6e078@exchange.slg.com> <05A1F906-72D8-4CEF-9B98-C8511618E5E0@sosmartsoftware.com> <052eb224df2c43a69c18624809da84d8@mangomultimedia.com> <50083164-F9A5-45DF-9715-7FD29AD656A1@major-k.de> Message-ID: <6.2.1.2.2.20050623155526.21a47008@exchange.slg.com> I guess they decided not to fix it in the next release? At 03:26 PM 6/23/2005, you wrote: >Hi Trevor, > >>On Jun 23, 2005, at 12:39 PM, Todd Higgins wrote: >> >>>Is there a technical reason for Revolution having a 31 char limit >>>in Mac OS X? Obviously the OS and filesystem support longer file >>>names (256 chars) and there must be other Carbon application that >>>support long filenames. >>Revolution is most likely still using the FSSpec file structure >>with QuickTime. > >Exactly! > >http://support.runrev.com/bugdatabase/show_bug.cgi?id=396 > >That's exactly what Tuviah mentioned here: > >------- Additional Comment #1 From Tuviah Snyder 2003-08-22 21:23 >------- >right this is because we using fsspecs..we plan to look into fixing >the 32 >char filepath limitation (either use unix paths or fsrefs) in the >next release. > >>QuickTime 6 introduced new movie storage functions that support all >>of the fancy long names but the Rev code needs to be updated to >>determine if QT 6 is installed and then use the appropriate functions. >> >> >>-- >>Trevor DeVore >>Blue Mango Multimedia >>trevor at mangomultimedia.com > >Regards > >Klaus Major >klaus at major-k.de >http://www.major-k.de > >_______________________________________________ >use-revolution mailing list >use-revolution at lists.runrev.com >Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >subscription preferences: >http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution Peter T. Evensen http://www.PetersRoadToHealth.com 24-hour recorded info hotline: 1-800-624-7671 From pevensen at siboneylg.com Thu Jun 23 17:00:52 2005 From: pevensen at siboneylg.com (Peter T. Evensen) Date: Thu, 23 Jun 2005 16:00:52 -0500 Subject: revSetStackProfile in model "stack" Message-ID: <6.2.1.2.2.20050623155935.21a42140@exchange.slg.com> It appears the a call in the openStack of a stack that is opened via the modal command has no effect. I changed the command from mode "StackName" to go to "StackName" And it works. I haven't tried to play around with it. Has anyone else seen this? Peter T. Evensen http://www.PetersRoadToHealth.com 24-hour recorded info hotline: 1-800-624-7671 From katir at hindu.org Thu Jun 23 17:03:03 2005 From: katir at hindu.org (Sivakatirswami) Date: Thu, 23 Jun 2005 11:03:03 -1000 Subject: Confirm Long File Name Bug in Player Object In-Reply-To: <6.2.1.2.2.20050623155526.21a47008@exchange.slg.com> References: <96F7CACF-EA61-4190-BE0E-E234356F03C2@hindu.org> <6.2.1.2.2.20050623141222.20a6e078@exchange.slg.com> <05A1F906-72D8-4CEF-9B98-C8511618E5E0@sosmartsoftware.com> <052eb224df2c43a69c18624809da84d8@mangomultimedia.com> <50083164-F9A5-45DF-9715-7FD29AD656A1@major-k.de> <6.2.1.2.2.20050623155526.21a47008@exchange.slg.com> Message-ID: <4AA4C392-3D9F-40BD-B632-F2F2A7C74221@hindu.org> So, we are stuck... mmm. I guess i'll have to implement a work around to preserve the long file names in some custom prop, field or global, truncate the file name on disk... reset the player to the truncated file name... all on the fly, when the transcriber finishes work, restore the file to it's original name.. export the matching .xml file (of the transcript and metadata from the discourse) with the long name... all doable, wish me luck! but, ideally this gets fixed on tonite's build and the next patch release that is issued every 72 hours on a cron... Sivakatirswami On Jun 23, 2005, at 10:55 AM, Peter T. Evensen wrote: > I guess they decided not to fix it in the next release? > > At 03:26 PM 6/23/2005, you wrote: > >> Hi Trevor, >> >> >>> On Jun 23, 2005, at 12:39 PM, Todd Higgins wrote: >>> >>> >>>> Is there a technical reason for Revolution having a 31 char limit >>>> in Mac OS X? Obviously the OS and filesystem support longer file >>>> names (256 chars) and there must be other Carbon application that >>>> support long filenames. >>>> >>> Revolution is most likely still using the FSSpec file structure >>> with QuickTime. >>> >> >> Exactly! >> >> http://support.runrev.com/bugdatabase/show_bug.cgi?id=396 >> >> That's exactly what Tuviah mentioned here: >> >> ------- Additional Comment #1 From Tuviah Snyder 2003-08-22 21:23 >> ------- >> right this is because we using fsspecs..we plan to look into fixing >> the 32 >> char filepath limitation (either use unix paths or fsrefs) in the >> next release. >> >> >>> QuickTime 6 introduced new movie storage functions that support all >>> of the fancy long names but the Rev code needs to be updated to >>> determine if QT 6 is installed and then use the appropriate >>> functions. >>> >>> >>> -- >>> Trevor DeVore >>> Blue Mango Multimedia >>> trevor at mangomultimedia.com >>> >> >> Regards >> >> Klaus Major >> klaus at major-k.de >> http://www.major-k.de >> >> _______________________________________________ >> use-revolution mailing list >> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >> subscription preferences: >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution >> > > Peter T. Evensen > http://www.PetersRoadToHealth.com > 24-hour recorded info hotline: 1-800-624-7671 > _______________________________________________ > use-revolution mailing list > use-revolution at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution > From dsc at swcp.com Thu Jun 23 17:14:08 2005 From: dsc at swcp.com (Dar Scott) Date: Thu, 23 Jun 2005 15:14:08 -0600 Subject: Confirm Long File Name Bug in Player Object In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Jun 23, 2005, at 1:08 PM, Scott Rossi wrote: > I would set this at Blocker status because it prevents playback of > otherwise > playable media. I don't agree with that. First of all, somebody will have a workaround command (3 minutes; 17 lines) shortly after I mail this. Second, "blocker" means it blocks development & testing. The developer can temporarily shorten the names and continue development and testing until a workaround or fix is available. Or did I miss something? Dar -- ********************************************** DSC (Dar Scott Consulting & Dar's Lab) http://www.swcp.com/dsc/ Programming and software ********************************************** From dsc at swcp.com Thu Jun 23 17:39:28 2005 From: dsc at swcp.com (Dar Scott) Date: Thu, 23 Jun 2005 15:39:28 -0600 Subject: Confirm Long File Name Bug in Player Object In-Reply-To: <4AA4C392-3D9F-40BD-B632-F2F2A7C74221@hindu.org> References: <96F7CACF-EA61-4190-BE0E-E234356F03C2@hindu.org> <6.2.1.2.2.20050623141222.20a6e078@exchange.slg.com> <05A1F906-72D8-4CEF-9B98-C8511618E5E0@sosmartsoftware.com> <052eb224df2c43a69c18624809da84d8@mangomultimedia.com> <50083164-F9A5-45DF-9715-7FD29AD656A1@major-k.de> <6.2.1.2.2.20050623155526.21a47008@exchange.slg.com> <4AA4C392-3D9F-40BD-B632-F2F2A7C74221@hindu.org> Message-ID: <9f84bf052e130377a8108734167427b4@swcp.com> On Jun 23, 2005, at 3:03 PM, Sivakatirswami wrote: > So, we are stuck... mmm. I guess i'll have to implement a work around > to preserve the long file names in some custom prop, field or global, > truncate the file name on disk... reset the player to the truncated > file name... all on the fly, when the transcriber finishes work, > restore the file to it's original name.. export the matching .xml file > (of the transcript and metadata from the discourse) with the long > name... all doable, wish me luck! Truncating and then restoring the file name might leave the name shortened on a crash or other abnormal exit, unless you do something special. Perhaps you can use a custom prop on the player and use that in all cases. The setProp handler can then check for name size and do whatever is needed. That might be creating an alias, copying the file, or (as you mentioned) shortening the name. It can also do whatever is needed to clean up after the old name. Quitting need do something simple, such as setting the custom property to empty. (I have no idea whether an alias will really work for a player.) Dar -- ********************************************** DSC (Dar Scott Consulting & Dar's Lab) http://www.swcp.com/dsc/ Programming and software ********************************************** From mwieder at ahsoftware.net Thu Jun 23 17:42:13 2005 From: mwieder at ahsoftware.net (Mark Wieder) Date: Thu, 23 Jun 2005 14:42:13 -0700 Subject: the := operator (affectation In-Reply-To: References: <1119521638.42ba8b6699019@staffmail.ed.ac.uk> <42BAE906.6050502@fourthworld.com> <02BAB77F-922D-4777-AF6B-B218390DAFE5@writeme.com> <0c803bc64d5aa6c05097f3715c301ea2@swcp.com> Message-ID: <8021640477.20050623144213@ahsoftware.net> Dennis- Thursday, June 23, 2005, 12:57:04 PM, you wrote: DB> easily change my mind later. I would be happy to be able to change DB> "get x" to "myVariable gets x". That's not the same syntax at all. The analogy for myVariable gets x is put x into myVariable while get x comes out as put x into it -- -Mark Wieder mwieder at ahsoftware.net From kaveh at river-valley.com Thu Jun 23 17:44:02 2005 From: kaveh at river-valley.com (Kaveh Bazargan) Date: Thu, 23 Jun 2005 22:44:02 +0100 Subject: Convert a standalone stand to a substack In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: I have a standalone stack (actually the preferences stack from Revolution Online) which I want to make into a substack of another main stack. How can I do that? -- Kaveh Bazargan http://www.river-valley.com/ http://www.holographer.org/ From eric.chatonet at sosmartsoftware.com Thu Jun 23 17:47:00 2005 From: eric.chatonet at sosmartsoftware.com (Eric Chatonet) Date: Thu, 23 Jun 2005 23:47:00 +0200 Subject: revSetStackProfile in model "stack" In-Reply-To: <6.2.1.2.2.20050623155935.21a42140@exchange.slg.com> References: <6.2.1.2.2.20050623155935.21a42140@exchange.slg.com> Message-ID: <7DD21B41-4A93-4833-AC31-CC61CB424A6D@sosmartsoftware.com> Hi Peter, May be modal stack "stackName" could work too ;-) Le 23 juin 05 ? 23:00, Peter T. Evensen a ?crit : > It appears the a call in the openStack of a stack that is opened > via the modal command has no effect. > > I changed the command from > > mode "StackName" > > to > > go to "StackName" Best Regards from Paris, Eric Chatonet. ---------------------------------------------------------------- So Smart Software For institutions, companies and associations Built-to-order applications: management, multimedia, internet, etc. Windows, Mac OS and Linux... With the French touch Free plugins and tutorials on my website ---------------------------------------------------------------- Web site http://www.sosmartsoftware.com/ Email eric.chatonet at sosmartsoftware.com/ Phone 33 (0)1 43 31 77 62 Mobile 33 (0)6 20 74 50 86 ---------------------------------------------------------------- From eric.chatonet at sosmartsoftware.com Thu Jun 23 17:54:24 2005 From: eric.chatonet at sosmartsoftware.com (Eric Chatonet) Date: Thu, 23 Jun 2005 23:54:24 +0200 Subject: Convert a standalone stand to a substack In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hi Kaveh, 1. Clone the stack you want to make a substack to keep the original unchanged (by typing in the message box: clone stack "stackName") 2. Open the property palette for the cloned stack and set it as a substack of the stack you wish in the popup menu (this main stack has to be open) 3. Change the name of the new substack (copy of stack "stackName") to what you wish. The job is done ;-) Le 23 juin 05 ? 23:44, Kaveh Bazargan a ?crit : > I have a standalone stack (actually the preferences stack from > Revolution > Online) which I want to make into a substack of another main stack. > How can > I do that? Best Regards from Paris, Eric Chatonet. ---------------------------------------------------------------- So Smart Software For institutions, companies and associations Built-to-order applications: management, multimedia, internet, etc. Windows, Mac OS and Linux... With the French touch Free plugins and tutorials on my website ---------------------------------------------------------------- Web site http://www.sosmartsoftware.com/ Email eric.chatonet at sosmartsoftware.com/ Phone 33 (0)1 43 31 77 62 Mobile 33 (0)6 20 74 50 86 ---------------------------------------------------------------- From pevensen at siboneylg.com Thu Jun 23 17:58:02 2005 From: pevensen at siboneylg.com (Peter T. Evensen) Date: Thu, 23 Jun 2005 16:58:02 -0500 Subject: revSetStackProfile in model "stack" In-Reply-To: <7DD21B41-4A93-4833-AC31-CC61CB424A6D@sosmartsoftware.com> References: <6.2.1.2.2.20050623155935.21a42140@exchange.slg.com> <7DD21B41-4A93-4833-AC31-CC61CB424A6D@sosmartsoftware.com> Message-ID: <6.2.1.2.2.20050623165233.21ab6090@exchange.slg.com> I meant modal stack "StackName" The point is: on openStack revSetStackProfile "MyProfile" end openStack does not work if the stack is opened via modal stack "StackName" but does work if it is opened via go to stack "StackName" An ask confirms that revSetStackProfile is being called in both cases. It just doesn't seem to have an effect when using modal stack "StackName" I haven't created a simpler stack to test this out yet. I was just wondering if anyone has seen this and if there is something I'm missing. At 04:47 PM 6/23/2005, you wrote: >Hi Peter, > >May be modal stack "stackName" could work too ;-) > >Le 23 juin 05 ? 23:00, Peter T. Evensen a ?crit : > >>It appears the a call in the openStack of a stack that is opened >>via the modal command has no effect. >> >>I changed the command from >> >>mode "StackName" >> >>to >> >>go to "StackName" > >Best Regards from Paris, > >Eric Chatonet. >---------------------------------------------------------------- >So Smart Software > >For institutions, companies and associations >Built-to-order applications: management, multimedia, internet, etc. >Windows, Mac OS and Linux... With the French touch > >Free plugins and tutorials on my website >---------------------------------------------------------------- >Web site http://www.sosmartsoftware.com/ >Email eric.chatonet at sosmartsoftware.com/ >Phone 33 (0)1 43 31 77 62 >Mobile 33 (0)6 20 74 50 86 >---------------------------------------------------------------- > >_______________________________________________ >use-revolution mailing list >use-revolution at lists.runrev.com >Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >subscription preferences: >http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution Peter T. Evensen http://www.PetersRoadToHealth.com 24-hour recorded info hotline: 1-800-624-7671 From eric.chatonet at sosmartsoftware.com Thu Jun 23 18:07:31 2005 From: eric.chatonet at sosmartsoftware.com (Eric Chatonet) Date: Fri, 24 Jun 2005 00:07:31 +0200 Subject: revSetStackProfile in model "stack" In-Reply-To: <6.2.1.2.2.20050623165233.21ab6090@exchange.slg.com> References: <6.2.1.2.2.20050623155935.21a42140@exchange.slg.com> <7DD21B41-4A93-4833-AC31-CC61CB424A6D@sosmartsoftware.com> <6.2.1.2.2.20050623165233.21ab6090@exchange.slg.com> Message-ID: Hi Peter, Sorry for my joke ;-) Never seen this. I worked with profiles for multilingual projects but I think it's not an acomplished feature in Revolution... You are right : the best way is always to make a new test stack to isolate the problem. Let us know... Le 23 juin 05 ? 23:58, Peter T. Evensen a ?crit : > I meant modal stack "StackName" > > The point is: > > on openStack > revSetStackProfile "MyProfile" > end openStack > > does not work if the stack is opened via modal stack "StackName" > but does work if it is opened via go to stack "StackName" > > An ask confirms that revSetStackProfile is being called in both > cases. It just doesn't seem to have an effect when using modal > stack "StackName" > > I haven't created a simpler stack to test this out yet. I was just > wondering if anyone has seen this and if there is something I'm > missing. > > At 04:47 PM 6/23/2005, you wrote: > >> Hi Peter, >> >> May be modal stack "stackName" could work too ;-) >> >> Le 23 juin 05 ? 23:00, Peter T. Evensen a ?crit : >> >> >>> It appears the a call in the openStack of a stack that is opened >>> via the modal command has no effect. >>> >>> I changed the command from >>> >>> mode "StackName" >>> >>> to >>> >>> go to "StackName" >>> >> >> Best Regards from Paris, >> >> Eric Chatonet. Best Regards from Paris, Eric Chatonet. ---------------------------------------------------------------- So Smart Software For institutions, companies and associations Built-to-order applications: management, multimedia, internet, etc. Windows, Mac OS and Linux... With the French touch Free plugins and tutorials on my website ---------------------------------------------------------------- Web site http://www.sosmartsoftware.com/ Email eric.chatonet at sosmartsoftware.com/ Phone 33 (0)1 43 31 77 62 Mobile 33 (0)6 20 74 50 86 ---------------------------------------------------------------- From hershrev at realtorsgroup.us Thu Jun 23 18:09:44 2005 From: hershrev at realtorsgroup.us (Hershel Fisch) Date: Thu, 23 Jun 2005 18:09:44 -0400 Subject: Stack size Message-ID: Hi all, I'm wondering why when I put a few commands in a "preOpenSTack" and among the commands is a size stack (height and width) if it is not the last command it doesn't work? And to put it into a "openStack" its very unprofessional. Lets not discuss the fact that stack sizes do not save . Hershel From jmac at consensustech.com Thu Jun 23 18:13:23 2005 From: jmac at consensustech.com (Jim MacConnell) Date: Thu, 23 Jun 2005 15:13:23 -0700 Subject: the := operator (affectation In-Reply-To: References: <1119521638.42ba8b6699019@staffmail.ed.ac.uk> <42BAE906.6050502@fourthworld.com> <02BAB77F-922D-4777-AF6B-B218390DAFE5@writeme.com> <0c803bc64d5aa6c05097f3715c301ea2@swcp.com> Message-ID: Hi. I've been "listening" to this discussion and find it intriguing. I personally have nothing against ":=" and "=" for variable assignment and have used them when using a tool that requires them. I also can quickly adapt to the "==" concept for comparisons and "=+" for incrementing (Though that one still hurts my brain a little). So... while the discussions about operators has been interesting, it is not something that stirred any passion.... Until the "gets" discussion that is.... and then I realized that I do care.... My problem with the concept of "gets" is that I can't see how it fits within the conceptual framework of xTalk where we (the coders) are telling an object (a button, a field, etc.) what to do when a certain message is received (on blah). The "put" and "get" constructs fall neatly into that vision as does (not surprisingly) most/all other elements (send, do,etc.). In a polite form of the "verbose", we are saying "Please, Button, when you receive a 'mouseUp' message do this and this and this also". Often, we will throw in a customHandler "xxx" which the object figures is a message if we don't tell it otherwise and so we don't have to say "Send xxx to the target" all the time. In contrast what is going on with the "gets" construct? Here some renegade variable is off filling itself with data and the button can only assume that it is being done... a weird sort of coding delegation which makes sense in a some environments but not xTalk. It is more like "Please, Button, when you receive a 'mouseUp' message do this and this and Ooops.. this isn't meant for you so don't pay any attention (Variable... go stuff yourself with something).. and now where were we.. Oh yes.. and this and this...and I hope the variable did its thing because I know you didn't do it Button but I hope the data is there cuz now I need you to do this.... and this and this also". I mean "Where's the message?". I don't mean to be totally facetious but the concept of message path and message passing within the confines of a relatively limited set of "near physical" objects is in what I view as the core concept of xTalk. The "affectation" discussion is really about alternatives for those who have learned to program in non-message based environments. (Or so my thoughts at this instant indicate)..... and this extends to those thinking ":=", etc. would be a good addition to Transcript. In contrast I think adding the "put x into y" construct would help a lot of other code (C, VB, ++) be more readable.... Getting back to "gets"... is it really that much harder to type "put (the x of y) into z" versus "z gets the x of y". okay.. back into my hole... Jim James H. MacConnell Consensus Technology, LLC 2200 N. 77th St. seattle, WA 98103-4928 www.consensustech.com Tel: 206.524.8555 Fax: 206.524.3034 On Jun 23, 2005, at 12:57 PM, Dennis Brown wrote: > I would be happy to be able to change "get x" to "myVariable gets > x". From gwthompson at mac.com Thu Jun 23 18:14:15 2005 From: gwthompson at mac.com (Gary Thompson) Date: Thu, 23 Jun 2005 18:14:15 -0400 Subject: Rev 2.5 as CGI Message-ID: Hello All, When I purchased Runtime Revolution last month one of the things that interested me was the capability to quote the web site "Let Transcript run facelessly on your server as a script language." I would like to experiment with this concept under OS X. I'm running Tiger if that has any impact. Any and all help/guidance would be greatly appreciated. Thanks, Gary Thompson From katherine.w.c at gmail.com Thu Jun 23 18:22:40 2005 From: katherine.w.c at gmail.com (Kat) Date: Thu, 23 Jun 2005 18:22:40 -0400 Subject: Rev 2.5 as CGI In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <42BB3630.1070604@gmail.com> Hi Gary, Welcome to Revolution! A good place I've found to start learning about RevCGI is at Jacque Landman Gay's site, http://www.hyperactivesw.com/cgitutorial/ She has links to other resources along the same vein as well. Good luck! Cheers, Kat http://rugusa.linguistix.net Gary Thompson wrote: > Hello All, > > When I purchased Runtime Revolution last month one of the things that > interested me was the capability to quote the web site "Let > Transcript run facelessly on your server as a script language." > > I would like to experiment with this concept under OS X. I'm running > Tiger if that has any impact. Any and all help/guidance would be > greatly appreciated. > > Thanks, > Gary Thompson > > _______________________________________________ > use-revolution mailing list > use-revolution at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution > From SimPLsol at aol.com Thu Jun 23 18:25:02 2005 From: SimPLsol at aol.com (SimPLsol at aol.com) Date: Thu, 23 Jun 2005 18:25:02 EDT Subject: Stack size Message-ID: <15d.534ddb3c.2fec90be@aol.com> Hershel, Is this behavior in a stack that had cards before you added menus? Paul Looney From hershrev at realtorsgroup.us Thu Jun 23 18:25:19 2005 From: hershrev at realtorsgroup.us (Hershel Fisch) Date: Thu, 23 Jun 2005 18:25:19 -0400 Subject: Stack size In-Reply-To: <15d.534ddb3c.2fec90be@aol.com> Message-ID: On 6/23/05 6:25 PM, "SimPLsol at aol.com" wrote: > Hershel, > Is this behavior in a stack that had cards before you added menus? I don't remember seeing any difference. > Paul Looney > _______________________________________________ > use-revolution mailing list > use-revolution at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription > preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution From claudi.c at fiberworld.nl Thu Jun 23 18:34:13 2005 From: claudi.c at fiberworld.nl (Claudi Cornaz) Date: Fri, 24 Jun 2005 00:34:13 +0200 Subject: matchChunk to find fontNames In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Thanks Bj?rnke, Eric and Marielle, You all helped me. In the mean time I got the matchChunkpart also worked out, and am putting it all together now. I will try to make a complete textMenu example, with all the features you ever wanted, plus a few more I hope (well, we will see about that one) Regex can be really fun and it's not quite that difficult after all and tremendously usefull. It took me a while but I learned quite a lot, and all though I don't know every thing I am certainly not afraid of regex anymore. I am putting the last bits and pieces together and smooth the whole thing a bit. It's still quite experimental at the moment, but as soon as it's "descent" I will post it In the mean time all the best. Claudi On Thursday, June 23, 2005, at 02:18 AM, Bj?rnke von Gierke wrote: > > On Jun 23 2005, at 00:29, Claudi Cornaz wrote: > >> Hi all, >> >> I am trying to implement a text menu and need to find all the >> fontNames >> and text attributes in the selectedChunk first to update my menu and >> afterwards >> to handle the choice. >> As long as all the text has all the same attributes (bold / italic >> etc) it's no problem >> but I need also to find all the attributes when it's mixed. >> >> I have been trying to get the instances of >> to extract all the parts like, the fontname, the size and the color >> if applicable with matchChunk. > > > you could get the foregroundColor (or more aptly named the textColor) > of the char. The textStyle property reports the current styles > delimited by comma, if you query only one style at once. The textSize > again returns mixed for a whole selection, but you can get it char per > char, and it will give you exact data that way. > > so for example: > --preparation > put empty into theColor > put empty into theSize > put empty into theStyle > put word two of the selectedchunk into theStart > put word four of the selectedchunk into theEnd > put word -1 of the selectedchunk into theField > --getting the actual data from the chars > repeat with x = theStart to theEnd > put (the effective textColor of char x of field theField) & comma > after theColor > put (the effective textSize of char x of field theField) & comma > after theSize > put (the effective textStyle of char x of field theField) & comma > after theStyle > end repeat > --now we can do whatever we want with the assembled list > --for example to know what the dominant textSize is: > put empty into theSizes > --adding them up by using an array > repeat for each item theItem in theSize > add 1 to theSizes[theItem] > end repeat > --finall cleanup of the data we got > combine theSizes using return and comma > sort theSizes numeric by item 2 of each > put theSizes > --and finally you got your most used size! > put line -1 of theSizes > > hope it does what you want? > Bj?rnke who wrote this mail > Wouter and Mark who gave some vital hints (arrays, counting, sorting) > -- > > http://contest.wecode.org > Now running: the first ChatRev coding contest! > sponsors: > Altuit > Andre Garzia > Fourth World > Karl Becker > Runtime Revolution > TidBITS in cooperation with eHUG > > _______________________________________________ > use-revolution mailing list > use-revolution at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution > From dsc at swcp.com Thu Jun 23 18:35:57 2005 From: dsc at swcp.com (Dar Scott) Date: Thu, 23 Jun 2005 16:35:57 -0600 Subject: the := operator (affectation In-Reply-To: References: <1119521638.42ba8b6699019@staffmail.ed.ac.uk> <42BAE906.6050502@fourthworld.com> <02BAB77F-922D-4777-AF6B-B218390DAFE5@writeme.com> <0c803bc64d5aa6c05097f3715c301ea2@swcp.com> Message-ID: On Jun 23, 2005, at 4:13 PM, Jim MacConnell wrote: > In contrast I think adding the "put x into y" construct would help a > lot of other code (C, VB, ++) be more readable.... I was thinking of an arrow pointing into the open top of a shoe box labeled with the variable name on the side. BTW, I like your comments, Jim. Dar -- ********************************************** DSC (Dar Scott Consulting & Dar's Lab) http://www.swcp.com/dsc/ Programming and software ********************************************** From SimPLsol at aol.com Thu Jun 23 18:27:15 2005 From: SimPLsol at aol.com (SimPLsol at aol.com) Date: Thu, 23 Jun 2005 18:27:15 EDT Subject: Printing Scripts PAINFUL Message-ID: <87.2a2d2356.2fec9143@aol.com> Also vote to fix this bug! Paul Looney From scott at tactilemedia.com Thu Jun 23 18:38:47 2005 From: scott at tactilemedia.com (Scott Rossi) Date: Thu, 23 Jun 2005 15:38:47 -0700 Subject: Confirm Long File Name Bug in Player Object In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Recently, Dar Scott wrote: >> I would set this at Blocker status because it prevents playback of >> otherwise >> playable media. > > I don't agree with that. > > First of all, somebody will have a workaround command (3 minutes; 17 > lines) shortly after I mail this. > > Second, "blocker" means it blocks development & testing. The developer > can temporarily shorten the names and continue development and testing > until a workaround or fix is available. > > Or did I miss something? Perhaps. I can see two ways of looking at this: managing your own media and managing users' media. Changing filenames of your own media may be acceptable but changing filenames of a users media is a really bad idea. If you change a filename and for whatever reason you are unable to restore to the original name, I can imagine the user being extremely upset. If you want to deliver a media player now, the only way around this is to have your app duplicate the user's media somewhere on their drive, rename it, and then make sure to delete the duplicate when you're done. For a few files, one by one, this might be OK, but I question whether this is a valid workaround for potentially dozens of multi-megabyte files. Regards, Scott Rossi Creative Director Tactile Media, Multimedia & Design ----- E: scott at tactilemedia.com W: http://www.tactilemedia.com From SimPLsol at aol.com Thu Jun 23 18:42:33 2005 From: SimPLsol at aol.com (SimPLsol at aol.com) Date: Thu, 23 Jun 2005 18:42:33 EDT Subject: compileIt for revolution? Message-ID: <90.606709a5.2fec94d9@aol.com> Jerry, Assuming there is sufficient interest what is the first step, and what would THAT cost? I'm thinking that the initial ScriptCompiler (or some better name) would just turn Transcript into machine code. This would be of interest to me (hopefully others) who want to put guarded code in places other than the standalone (for example a proprietary calculation in an order processing stack - where all the other code is accessible). The next step might be array processing or tool box calls or???? These could be built later and sold separately; for example ScriptCompiler I, ScriptCompiler II, etc. Paul Looney From bob.earp at ashford.ca Thu Jun 23 18:57:58 2005 From: bob.earp at ashford.ca (Robert J. Earp) Date: Thu, 23 Jun 2005 15:57:58 -0700 Subject: Latest version of Revolution ? Message-ID: <42BB3E76.8060700@ashford.ca> Mark - Done... Bob- ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Wednesday, June 22, 2005, 12:14:12 PM, you wrote: RJE> Yes, I know about the "Check for Updates" but I was hoping somebody from RJE> Rev would pick up on my (maybe too) subtle hint at putting the bloody RJE> revision number on at least the ftp site files AND the "About" box. In RJE> Richard's words, just another coding convention, at least in my world if RJE> not Dar's ;-) RJE> I had a feeling that we could easily overwhelm Kevin & Co. with requests, RJE> but I also felt that a lot of folks did not know about the bug fix version. Do bugzilla this if you haven't already. I know Kevin and Mark are winging their way back to Scotland now and are planning on getting the updater updated to the latest version, but your excellent suggestion about making the revision number obvious in many places should get into the bug database where it can at least get voted on. Personally I'd like to see it in the About box, the Help menu, and the web site. -- -Mark Wieder mwieder at ahsoftware.net ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ -- Robert J. Earp - Ashford Training Technologies* *18059 21A Avenue, South Surrey, British Columbia, Canada. V3S 9V7 T:(1)604 541 1662 Cel:(1)604 612 6688 F:(1)604 541 1686 ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.323 / Virus Database: 267.7.11/26 - Release Date: 22/06/2005 From pevensen at siboneylg.com Thu Jun 23 19:04:37 2005 From: pevensen at siboneylg.com (Peter T. Evensen) Date: Thu, 23 Jun 2005 18:04:37 -0500 Subject: revSetStackProfile in model "stack" In-Reply-To: References: <6.2.1.2.2.20050623155935.21a42140@exchange.slg.com> <7DD21B41-4A93-4833-AC31-CC61CB424A6D@sosmartsoftware.com> <6.2.1.2.2.20050623165233.21ab6090@exchange.slg.com> Message-ID: <6.2.1.2.2.20050623180358.0471fc78@exchange.slg.com> I just did a simple test. A stack with 2 buttons, one opens a substack via modal stack and the other via go to stack. It doesn't work with modal. I'll put it in bugzilla. At 05:07 PM 6/23/2005, you wrote: >Hi Peter, > >Sorry for my joke ;-) >Never seen this. >I worked with profiles for multilingual projects but I think it's not >an acomplished feature in Revolution... >You are right : the best way is always to make a new test stack to >isolate the problem. >Let us know... > >Le 23 juin 05 ? 23:58, Peter T. Evensen a ?crit : > >>I meant modal stack "StackName" >> >>The point is: >> >>on openStack >> revSetStackProfile "MyProfile" >>end openStack >> >>does not work if the stack is opened via modal stack "StackName" >>but does work if it is opened via go to stack "StackName" >> >>An ask confirms that revSetStackProfile is being called in both >>cases. It just doesn't seem to have an effect when using modal >>stack "StackName" >> >>I haven't created a simpler stack to test this out yet. I was just >>wondering if anyone has seen this and if there is something I'm >>missing. >> >>At 04:47 PM 6/23/2005, you wrote: >> >>>Hi Peter, >>> >>>May be modal stack "stackName" could work too ;-) >>> >>>Le 23 juin 05 ? 23:00, Peter T. Evensen a ?crit : >>> >>> >>>>It appears the a call in the openStack of a stack that is opened >>>>via the modal command has no effect. >>>> >>>>I changed the command from >>>> >>>>mode "StackName" >>>> >>>>to >>>> >>>>go to "StackName" >>> >>>Best Regards from Paris, >>> >>>Eric Chatonet. > > >Best Regards from Paris, > >Eric Chatonet. >---------------------------------------------------------------- >So Smart Software > >For institutions, companies and associations >Built-to-order applications: management, multimedia, internet, etc. >Windows, Mac OS and Linux... With the French touch > >Free plugins and tutorials on my website >---------------------------------------------------------------- >Web site http://www.sosmartsoftware.com/ >Email eric.chatonet at sosmartsoftware.com/ >Phone 33 (0)1 43 31 77 62 >Mobile 33 (0)6 20 74 50 86 >---------------------------------------------------------------- > >_______________________________________________ >use-revolution mailing list >use-revolution at lists.runrev.com >Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >subscription preferences: >http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution Peter T. Evensen http://www.PetersRoadToHealth.com 24-hour recorded info hotline: 1-800-624-7671 From tominjapan at excite.com Thu Jun 23 19:23:21 2005 From: tominjapan at excite.com (Thomas McCarthy) Date: Thu, 23 Jun 2005 19:23:21 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Confirm Long File Name Bug in Player Object--OTHER Message-ID: <20050623232321.40566B956@xprdmailfe14.nwk.excite.com> I noticed that when I ran shell scripts to convert WAVE files to MP3, if the file name was long it wouldn't work. If I set the default folder to the location of the files, that seemed to help. I haven't experienced this bug on Windows--but maybe I had already dealt with it on my Mac? Can't remember. tom _______________________________________________ Join Excite! - http://www.excite.com The most personalized portal on the Web! From dsc at swcp.com Thu Jun 23 19:48:42 2005 From: dsc at swcp.com (Dar Scott) Date: Thu, 23 Jun 2005 17:48:42 -0600 Subject: Confirm Long File Name Bug in Player Object In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <68f8dfd54b04acc1f37f789f3c6f0bfc@swcp.com> On Jun 23, 2005, at 4:38 PM, Scott Rossi wrote: > Changing filenames of your own media may be acceptable but changing > filenames of a users media is a really bad idea. If you change a > filename > and for whatever reason you are unable to restore to the original > name, I > can imagine the user being extremely upset. You are right. And at the time of my comment, I hadn't thought too much into what a workaround would be like. Even so, I think this loss of functionality qualifies as (at most) "Major", in that it is a "major loss of function." I understand "Blocker" to mean "I can't develop." Dar -- ********************************************** DSC (Dar Scott Consulting & Dar's Lab) http://www.swcp.com/dsc/ Programming and software ********************************************** From revdan at danshafer.com Thu Jun 23 20:20:56 2005 From: revdan at danshafer.com (Dan Shafer) Date: Thu, 23 Jun 2005 17:20:56 -0700 Subject: compileIt for revolution? In-Reply-To: <4755280399.20050622233901@ahsoftware.net> References: <20050622165136.B64F7930157@mail.runrev.com> <16327279956.20050622155221@ahsoftware.net> <3B0F173C-E5FA-49DC-9806-5220E6915E24@danshafer.com> <4755280399.20050622233901@ahsoftware.net> Message-ID: <02C4CF0E-D724-4F72-964F-C1270F3BDE67@danshafer.com> Maybe that's what I ended up doing but it was accidental! Maybe I fell asleep at some point. My argument is NOT against the ability to build externals to do whatever one wishes to do, including platform-specific things if you want to make your life more complicated and miserable or if you only have to deliver a product to users of a single platform. My argument is against Rev modifying the engine/tool to accommodate platform- specific features in a way that causes the code of those of us who don't want to use such features to break when it runs on other platforms or to jump through a bunch of conditional hoops all the time to get code to run on other platforms to accommodate single- platform features. On Jun 22, 2005, at 11:39 PM, Mark Wieder wrote: > Ah... that may be. But I'm pushing *for* a generic external interface, > and you're arguing against it. > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Dan Shafer, Revolution Consultant and Author http://www.shafermedia.com Get my book, "Revolution: Software at the Speed of Thought" From http://www.shafermedia.com/revolutionbooks.html From revdan at danshafer.com Thu Jun 23 20:26:50 2005 From: revdan at danshafer.com (Dan Shafer) Date: Thu, 23 Jun 2005 17:26:50 -0700 Subject: compileIt for revolution? In-Reply-To: <6.2.1.2.1.20050623062308.01f295b0@pop3.pon.net> References: <20050622170404.76336.qmail@web51107.mail.yahoo.com> <5D2B36D7-6FB4-40B6-8BE5-3D5BE47F9C22@danshafer.com> <6.2.1.2.1.20050623062308.01f295b0@pop3.pon.net> Message-ID: If you can write externals in Transcript syntax and NOT over-extend the language to accommodate this demand, I don't have an issue. But that is not generally the case. When people talk about writing externals they generally (in my experience at least) mean they want to make the tool do something its built-in language does not inherently know how to do. There is in that desire a strong implication of adding features to the language that I believe will ultimately corrupt it to the point of not being accessible to mere mortals. It's what I call the Javazation of Transcript. If you have a need for something in a program that Transcript simply can't do and if the right way to solve that problem is with an external, then it seems to me you should be willing to move outside the boundaries of the language to do that thing, whatever it is. (These multi-dimensional array manipulations, e.g., can apparently not be done satisfactorily in Transcript.) I'm *always* going to come down on the side of keeping the language as simple as possible. In my opinion, it is already too burdened with baggage that is of use to a tiny fraction of its users in order to accommodate a few people with specific programming needs. As it becomes more complex -- even if those complexities are posited as "optional alternatives" -- it becomes more and more impenetrable to those who do not have a computer science background or formal computer training. Those folks already have enough languages to pick from. I strongly desire for this one to escape the clutches of the Programming Priesthood. On Jun 23, 2005, at 6:35 AM, Rob Cozens wrote: > Why would any Transcript scriptor want to write externals in C or > Pascal if she could use Transcript syntax instead? > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Dan Shafer, Revolution Consultant and Author http://www.shafermedia.com Get my book, "Revolution: Software at the Speed of Thought" From http://www.shafermedia.com/revolutionbooks.html From bill at bluewatermaritime.com Thu Jun 23 10:18:02 2005 From: bill at bluewatermaritime.com (Bill) Date: Thu, 23 Jun 2005 10:18:02 -0400 Subject: Latest version of Revolution ? In-Reply-To: <42BA2576.2000900@hyperactivesw.com> Message-ID: I tried it with 10.4.1 in both the same volume and a different volume. Hypercard turns on and everything but Reports 9 to 5 is completely broke. >> >>> I can't run >>> Tiger because it destroyed Hypercard. >> >> >> It didn't for me! I am still using HyperCard with Tiger. I heard that 9 >> to 5 Reports no longer works but I don;t have that to test. HyperCard >> itself still works fine. > > Tiger introduced a filepath problem that apparently affects some Classic > apps, including HC. HC's global filepaths break and you can only edit > some scripts (like the Home stack's) remotely. > > Upgrading to 10.4.1 apparently fixes it, or alternately you can run HC > from a volume that isn't the startup volume and that works too. | | | )_) )_) )_) )___))___))___)\ )____)____)_____)\\ _____|____|____|____\\\__ -------\ /--------- http://www.bluewatermaritime.com ^^^^^ ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ ^^^^ ^^^^ ^^^ ^^ ^^^^ ^^^ 24 hour cell: (787) 378-6190 fax: (787) 809-8426 Blue Water Maritime P.O. Box 91 Puerto Real, PR 00740 From scott at tactilemedia.com Thu Jun 23 20:39:12 2005 From: scott at tactilemedia.com (Scott Rossi) Date: Thu, 23 Jun 2005 17:39:12 -0700 Subject: Confirm Long File Name Bug in Player Object In-Reply-To: <68f8dfd54b04acc1f37f789f3c6f0bfc@swcp.com> Message-ID: Recently, Dar Scott wrote: >> Changing filenames of your own media may be acceptable but changing >> filenames of a users media is a really bad idea. If you change a >> filename >> and for whatever reason you are unable to restore to the original >> name, I >> can imagine the user being extremely upset. > > You are right. And at the time of my comment, I hadn't thought too > much into what a workaround would be like. > > Even so, I think this loss of functionality qualifies as (at most) > "Major", in that it is a "major loss of function." I understand > "Blocker" to mean "I can't develop." How is this different from "I can't deliver?" Regards, Scott Rossi Creative Director Tactile Media, Multimedia & Design ----- E: scott at tactilemedia.com W: http://www.tactilemedia.com From see3d at writeme.com Thu Jun 23 20:48:44 2005 From: see3d at writeme.com (Dennis Brown) Date: Thu, 23 Jun 2005 20:48:44 -0400 Subject: the := operator (affectation In-Reply-To: References: <1119521638.42ba8b6699019@staffmail.ed.ac.uk> <42BAE906.6050502@fourthworld.com> <02BAB77F-922D-4777-AF6B-B218390DAFE5@writeme.com> <0c803bc64d5aa6c05097f3715c301ea2@swcp.com> Message-ID: <16635F34-8111-4431-BF62-CD097969D938@writeme.com> > okay.. back into my hole... Yes, Please stay there. > I personally have nothing against ":=" and "=" for variable > assignment and have used them > My problem with the concept of "gets" is that I can't see how it > fits within the conceptual framework of xTalk var := x var == x var = x --this is a bit tougher var isAssignedToTheValueOf x var gets x are all the same thing! You say one is a good construct and another is an inconsistent construct! That makes your argument inconsistent. You just don't get it ;-) I can't say I can get it into your head, though I can put it into your head. Perhaps Jim gets it now. Ok, this has just turned the corner to religion and I'm outa here... Dennis On Jun 23, 2005, at 6:13 PM, Jim MacConnell wrote: > Hi. > > I've been "listening" to this discussion and find it intriguing. I > personally have nothing against ":=" and "=" for variable > assignment and have used them when using a tool that requires them. > I also can quickly adapt to the "==" concept for comparisons and "= > +" for incrementing (Though that one still hurts my brain a > little). So... while the discussions about operators has been > interesting, it is not something that stirred any passion.... Until > the "gets" discussion that is.... and then I realized that I do > care.... > > My problem with the concept of "gets" is that I can't see how it > fits within the conceptual framework of xTalk where we (the coders) > are telling an object (a button, a field, etc.) what to do when a > certain message is received (on blah). The "put" and "get" > constructs fall neatly into that vision as does (not surprisingly) > most/all other elements (send, do,etc.). In a polite form of the > "verbose", we are saying "Please, Button, when you receive a > 'mouseUp' message do this and this and this also". Often, we will > throw in a customHandler "xxx" which the object figures is a > message if we don't tell it otherwise and so we don't have to say > "Send xxx to the target" all the time. > > In contrast what is going on with the "gets" construct? Here some > renegade variable is off filling itself with data and the button > can only assume that it is being done... a weird sort of coding > delegation which makes sense in a some environments but not xTalk. > It is more like "Please, Button, when you receive a 'mouseUp' > message do this and this and Ooops.. this isn't meant for you so > don't pay any attention (Variable... go stuff yourself with > something).. and now where were we.. Oh yes.. and this and > this...and I hope the variable did its thing because I know you > didn't do it Button but I hope the data is there cuz now I need you > to do this.... and this and this also". I mean "Where's the > message?". > > I don't mean to be totally facetious but the concept of message > path and message passing within the confines of a relatively > limited set of "near physical" objects is in what I view as the > core concept of xTalk. The "affectation" discussion is really about > alternatives for those who have learned to program in non-message > based environments. (Or so my thoughts at this instant > indicate)..... and this extends to those thinking ":=", etc. would > be a good addition to Transcript. In contrast I think adding the > "put x into y" construct would help a lot of other code (C, VB, + > +) be more readable.... > > Getting back to "gets"... is it really that much harder to type > "put (the x of y) into z" versus "z gets the x of y". > > okay.. back into my hole... > > Jim > > > James H. MacConnell > > Consensus Technology, LLC > 2200 N. 77th St. > seattle, WA 98103-4928 > www.consensustech.com > Tel: 206.524.8555 > Fax: 206.524.3034 > > > > On Jun 23, 2005, at 12:57 PM, Dennis Brown wrote: > > >> I would be happy to be able to change "get x" to "myVariable >> gets x". >> > > _______________________________________________ > use-revolution mailing list > use-revolution at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution > From aj445 at traverse.lib.mi.us Thu Jun 23 21:01:31 2005 From: aj445 at traverse.lib.mi.us (SB) Date: Thu, 23 Jun 2005 21:01:31 -0400 Subject: use-revolution Digest, Vol 21, Issue 136 In-Reply-To: <20050623174410.9BEDC930186@mail.runrev.com> References: <20050623174410.9BEDC930186@mail.runrev.com> Message-ID: <804C4D01-E44B-11D9-BC41-000A95F0C744@leo.nmc.edu> Hi everyone, here are some still images from the RevConWest trip. http://www.troutfoot.com/rev/index.html Feel free to make copies, share, etc. Sandy From kray at sonsothunder.com Thu Jun 23 21:31:47 2005 From: kray at sonsothunder.com (Ken Ray) Date: Thu, 23 Jun 2005 20:31:47 -0500 Subject: Choosing printer from within a script In-Reply-To: <64878EF567131D4596246171F75FD4A946A2E0@m-epo-1.epo.cdc.gov> Message-ID: On 6/23/05 1:23 PM, "Lynch, Jonathan" wrote: > Thanks Ken! > > What versions of windows allow you to use Vbscript in this way? I see > many uses for such a thing. All of 'em... (actually I think you need to have at least Internet Explorer 4.x or later in Windows 95). However different versions of the OS will support different sets of functionality depending on what you're asking for. Keep in mind that certain VBS actions may trigger anti-virus detectors (generally anything that manipulates files like the FileSystem object). But if you're just "getting" info, you should be safe. Ken Ray Sons of Thunder Software Web site: http://www.sonsothunder.com/ Email: kray at sonsothunder.com From SimPLsol at aol.com Thu Jun 23 21:47:37 2005 From: SimPLsol at aol.com (SimPLsol at aol.com) Date: Thu, 23 Jun 2005 21:47:37 EDT Subject: use-revolution Digest, Vol 21, Issue 136 Message-ID: <97.621498dc.2fecc039@aol.com> In a message dated 6/23/05 6:24:59 PM, aj445 at traverse.lib.mi.us writes: > http://www.troutfoot.com/rev/index.html > Wow, great pictures. Now I know I really was there - was beginning to think it was all a dream. And your slide show - frosting on the cake! Thank you very much. Paul Looney From see3d at writeme.com Thu Jun 23 22:11:58 2005 From: see3d at writeme.com (Dennis Brown) Date: Thu, 23 Jun 2005 22:11:58 -0400 Subject: compileIt for revolution? In-Reply-To: References: <20050622170404.76336.qmail@web51107.mail.yahoo.com> <5D2B36D7-6FB4-40B6-8BE5-3D5BE47F9C22@danshafer.com> <6.2.1.2.1.20050623062308.01f295b0@pop3.pon.net> Message-ID: <0450A748-8A83-444C-B390-7605A0952312@writeme.com> Dan, Rev is chock full of stuff that I will never use. Perhaps half or more of the commands are irrelevant to my needs. However, I see on this list folks that love those irrelevant things in their applications. You have your ideas about the kind of applications you want to use Rev for. Do you consider everyone else's applications to be irrelevant that do not fit into your concept of what Rev should be used for --dooming them to use tools too arcane to ever accomplish their tasks in a reasonable lifetime? You are not the only one who is too old to spend the rest of his life programming in C ;-) I choose Rev as my language of choice, because I could see accomplishing my ambitious goals in what is left of my expected lifetime. I do not write "professionally" to sell products to others. I write to solve problems that I want to solve for myself and my friends. I am a renaissance man with many interests and skills. Therefore, my problems are varied and the solutions must be timely for me to have time enjoy them all. Array improvements are a subject near to my heart. Arrays could have been implemented in a way that would make them one or two orders of magnitude faster for the types of applications that need speed. Or, they could have been implemented in a way that would make them more general for other applications. Or, they could do both. In Rev today we sort of have a half attempt at both. You don't have to butcher a language to make it satisfy a large number of needs. A lot of the proposed "Butchery" that you see on these threads are just a symptom of the needs. The solutions should not to be left unexplored just because the ones with needs are not language architects and make unpalatable suggestions. Rather it should be seen as a call and challenge to the language architects to put their heads together and propose solutions for the needs. Many times the needs can be met by a greater understanding of the more obscure capabilities already in the language. This list is wonderful for getting this kind of help. Many of these obscure capabilities are in fact extensions to the language to provide a low level engine primitive to get around speed issues with doing things in the straight forward algorithmic way. Building special purpose operators to speed up specific applications is how the problems are ultimately solved for everyone. I am all for this, even if I don't need those things for my stuff, because someone else will use those things to make something wonderful that I or others will appreciate and use. I just want the stuff to be useful for at least 5-10% of the folks, and that a good effort is made to make it consistent for the language. I should point out that I agree with 90% of what you say. I just see that you have formed some opinions from you long experience, just as I have from mine. I was involved in the "personal computer" industry since the first (8008) microprocessor was created. No two persons experience is the same, and therein is the beauty. As a former boss of mine use to say, "If you agree with me all the time, one of us is not needed!" I too am somewhat disturbed at many commands in the language that seem to specific to a platform or even a database. It is tough to draw the line between the "Language" and just a package of handlers for your scripting convenience. However, I think a line should be drawn. Core language definitions should be well thought out and not changed. Convenience handlers should be understood as such, bountiful, and improvements permitted. I'm getting too old for these soap boxes --the altitude is getting to me ;-) Dennis On Jun 23, 2005, at 8:26 PM, Dan Shafer wrote: > I'm *always* going to come down on the side of keeping the language > as simple as possible. In my opinion, it is already too burdened > with baggage that is of use to a tiny fraction of its users in > order to accommodate a few people with specific programming needs. > As it becomes more complex -- even if those complexities are > posited as "optional alternatives" -- it becomes more and more > impenetrable to those who do not have a computer science background > or formal computer training. Those folks already have enough > languages to pick from. I strongly desire for this one to escape > the clutches of the Programming Priesthood. From 3mcgrath at adelphia.net Thu Jun 23 22:25:41 2005 From: 3mcgrath at adelphia.net (Thomas McGrath III) Date: Thu, 23 Jun 2005 22:25:41 -0400 Subject: compileIt for revolution? In-Reply-To: <02C4CF0E-D724-4F72-964F-C1270F3BDE67@danshafer.com> References: <20050622165136.B64F7930157@mail.runrev.com> <16327279956.20050622155221@ahsoftware.net> <3B0F173C-E5FA-49DC-9806-5220E6915E24@danshafer.com> <4755280399.20050622233901@ahsoftware.net> <02C4CF0E-D724-4F72-964F-C1270F3BDE67@danshafer.com> Message-ID: <5a1b22403eb5fa8160585c8e67748fc5@adelphia.net> Dan, That's what I got from the first post, exactly. I tend to agree with your statement and your logic is sound. (not that you need me to say so) I just wanted to agree to this and don't want to see Rev changed in another direction. Thanks Tom On Jun 23, 2005, at 8:20 PM, Dan Shafer wrote: > > My argument is NOT against the ability to build externals to do > whatever one wishes to do, including platform-specific things if you > want to make your life more complicated and miserable or if you only > have to deliver a product to users of a single platform. My argument > is against Rev modifying the engine/tool to accommodate > platform-specific features in a way that causes the code of those of > us who don't want to use such features to break when it runs on other > platforms or to jump through a bunch of conditional hoops all the time > to get code to run on other platforms to accommodate single-platform > features. Thomas J McGrath III 3mcgrath at adelphia.net 412-831-3094 220 Drake Road Bethel Park, PA 15102 <*)) >=< "Life should NOT be a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in an attractive and well preserved body, but rather to skid in sideways - a Cigar in one hand - a large steak in the other - your body thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and screaming - WOO HOO! What a Ride!" From 3mcgrath at adelphia.net Thu Jun 23 22:35:12 2005 From: 3mcgrath at adelphia.net (Thomas McGrath III) Date: Thu, 23 Jun 2005 22:35:12 -0400 Subject: use-revolution Digest, Vol 21, Issue 136 In-Reply-To: <804C4D01-E44B-11D9-BC41-000A95F0C744@leo.nmc.edu> References: <20050623174410.9BEDC930186@mail.runrev.com> <804C4D01-E44B-11D9-BC41-000A95F0C744@leo.nmc.edu> Message-ID: Very nice slide show with music Sandy, Thank you very much. I just wish I knew which people are which. Also your photography of the surrounding area is very good. Thanks TOm On Jun 23, 2005, at 9:01 PM, SB wrote: > Hi everyone, here are some still images from the RevConWest trip. > > http://www.troutfoot.com/rev/index.html > > Feel free to make copies, share, etc. > > Sandy > > _______________________________________________ > use-revolution mailing list > use-revolution at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution > > Thomas J. McGrath III SCS 1000 Killarney Dr. Pittsburgh, PA 15234 412-885-8541 From ambassador at fourthworld.com Thu Jun 23 22:39:49 2005 From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin) Date: Thu, 23 Jun 2005 19:39:49 -0700 Subject: compileIt for revolution? In-Reply-To: <6.2.1.2.1.20050623064002.01f29320@pop3.pon.net> References: <20050622034955.C8E81930064@mail.runrev.com> <386EA08D-07BE-4754-AB4A-3616B73A9E9F@writeme.com> <42BA021C.3090302@fourthworld.com> <6.2.1.2.1.20050623064002.01f29320@pop3.pon.net> Message-ID: <42BB7275.3000202@fourthworld.com> Rob Cozens wrote: > I'm really sorry your experience with CompileIt! was such that you > didn't get it. I believe got it: I wrote a few dozen externals with it, bundled 'em up into a commercial product, and they paid my rent for a year. While I enjoyed it (or more specifically, Mark Hanrek's souped-up version of it), not everyone did. Even at the peak of CompileIt's popularity Rinaldi, Calhoun, and many other prolific externals authors preferred to work in other languages. My point about Compile! is not that it's not a good time, but merely that it's not a panacea. To use it efficiently required lower-level ways of doing things, and after the user has come to understand pointers, handles, data types, and the OS APIs the difference between learning CompileItSpeak and C is indeed there but the gulf isn't very wide. There may be a market for such a compiler and if so I might use it myself. But given what it takes to build such a critter for Rev and what would be required to use it, don't be surprised if it takes a long time to reach a positive ROI. In the meantime there are obvious deficiencies in the current externals package, and I hope they've been brought to RunRev's attention and that they are addressing them. -- Richard Gaskin Managing Editor, revJournal _______________________________________________________ Rev tips, tutorials and more: http://www.revJournal.com From jmac at consensustech.com Thu Jun 23 22:40:23 2005 From: jmac at consensustech.com (Jim MacConnell) Date: Thu, 23 Jun 2005 19:40:23 -0700 Subject: the := operator (affectation In-Reply-To: <16635F34-8111-4431-BF62-CD097969D938@writeme.com> References: <1119521638.42ba8b6699019@staffmail.ed.ac.uk> <42BAE906.6050502@fourthworld.com> <02BAB77F-922D-4777-AF6B-B218390DAFE5@writeme.com> <0c803bc64d5aa6c05097f3715c301ea2@swcp.com> <16635F34-8111-4431-BF62-CD097969D938@writeme.com> Message-ID: <3FF1186D-CDFA-443D-88BD-18A2FB93D85E@consensustech.com> Dennis, First.. thank you for your intelligent reply to my: >> okay.. back into my hole... > Yes, Please stay there. It is good to so easily learn so much of the people we correspond with. I'm not surprised that I touched a nerve but I am surprised at the scream ... sorry ;-{ ) Second.. > var := x > var == x > var = x --this is a bit tougher > var isAssignedToTheValueOf x > var gets x > > are all the same thing! Well.. they are close. They all may have the same result at a machine code level... (although I believe var == x resolves to TRUE if var and x are the same (false otherwise).. and usually the same for (var = x) if it is parentheses? ) but the discussion is not about values of variables or what the machine does... or at least my contribution wasn't. It seemed to me, the discussion was about consistency in a language and the inclusion of semantically different operators in addition to those that are inherently ones. Seems like you didn't understand rather than me. Third... > You say one is a good construct and another is an inconsistent > construct! That makes your argument inconsistent. Maybe reread my post? I don't see in my message where I said any of those was a good construct for an xTalk. I said "put x into var" was a good construct for an xTalk language because it is consistent with the concept of telling the object what "It" should do as opposed to a variable being assigned something... It may seem a trivial point but it is at the root of the discussion... Or perhaps the point is that if all of the above are the same but are non-xTalk friendly conceptually, is it appropriate for us to worry about whether Transcript includes any of them.... Of course you left the "put x into var" out of the list even though I would assume that from your point of view it is also the same thing.... So why did you leave it off? it appears to be the only one that is 100% consistent with the xTalk construct..... Could it be you agree with me at some level? Finally... > You just don't get it ;-) > I can't say I can get it into your head, though I can put it into > your head. > Perhaps Jim gets it now. ... telling someone their argument is inconsistent or that they don't get it when it appears you maybe didn't actually listen to/read what they were saying does little to build your credibility. Following the same with a condescending cute smiley does not help. This list is a great place for constructive discussion and it should stay that way. Keep your personal comments to yourself.. and I'll be lighter on the " ...some renegade variable is off filling itself with data..." comments. Jim From ambassador at fourthworld.com Thu Jun 23 22:55:44 2005 From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin) Date: Thu, 23 Jun 2005 19:55:44 -0700 Subject: the := operator (affectation In-Reply-To: <73923EE5-FCE4-4B57-B4F9-BD0527BB76D1@sosmartsoftware.com> References: <1119521638.42ba8b6699019@staffmail.ed.ac.uk> <42BAE906.6050502@fourthworld.com> <910225BF-C1F1-463C-B89D-8E94B29A7549@sosmartsoftware.com> <42BAFCB0.6030503@fourthworld.com> <73923EE5-FCE4-4B57-B4F9-BD0527BB76D1@sosmartsoftware.com> Message-ID: <42BB7630.9000100@fourthworld.com> Eric Chatonet wrote: > Hi Richard, > > Don't think it's a problem of religion :-) Agreed, that was an imprecise choice on my part. But I do think at the hear of things it's a philosophical issue. > Or you want to maintain an "every day" language or you want to allow > specialists languages come in. > As for me I don't mind : I use both. Precisely. xTalk is big enough for both, so maybe we can be as big as the language. It's hard to get less "xTalk-like" than RegEx, but those who use it seem to like it and those who don't aren't bothered by its availability. I don't teach RegEx to newcomers, but I sure wouldn't advocate removing it either. I'll venture to suggest that if Raney had subjected the decision to include RegEx to this sort of discussion it might well not be in the language. Fortunately he actted as a benign dictator and just went ahead and put it in after enough folks had asked for it. It provides tremendous convenience over traditional xTalk alternatives, and does no harm if not used. I don't really care all that much whether RunRev adds an OPTION for simpler assignment syntax to make it easier to use for folks experienced in nearly any other language to pick up Transcript. And I don't care that much which operator is used so long as it isn't "==" since C programmers already lose millions each year tracking down bugs related to mistyping it. But I do believe it may be useful to keep an open mind when a significant percentage of newcomers are asking for the same thing. If there's a way to maintain traditional methods while making a lot of new people happy I see no harm in that, and much good. If Transcript is to grow we have to expect that from time to time there will be additions to the language which represent whole new ways of working with it. As with RegEx, sometimes even radical departure from traditions can be useful. -- Richard Gaskin Fourth World Media Corporation ___________________________________________________________ Ambassador at FourthWorld.com http://www.FourthWorld.com From harrison at all-auctions.com Fri Jun 24 00:12:47 2005 From: harrison at all-auctions.com (Rick Harrison) Date: Fri, 24 Jun 2005 00:12:47 -0400 Subject: Additive Images In-Reply-To: <804C4D01-E44B-11D9-BC41-000A95F0C744@leo.nmc.edu> References: <20050623174410.9BEDC930186@mail.runrev.com> <804C4D01-E44B-11D9-BC41-000A95F0C744@leo.nmc.edu> Message-ID: <7DE14B82-9E3B-4289-A749-61A429DC622C@all-auctions.com> Hi there, I'm trying to create an overlay of three images so that it looks like a triple exposure. Or even possibly an unlimited amount up to the point I want to stop adding. Probably would use a slider control for this to adjust levels, number of images etc. I was thinking that Rev just might be the perfect tool for this. I thought I'd use a video camera to capture the images and then somehow add the value of pixels together. Does anyone have a clue as to how I might go about this? This seems like a path that others may have gone down in the past with Revolution, so I thought perhaps one of your image processing minds might have some good tips or pointers. Thanks in advance! Rick Harrison From scott at tactilemedia.com Fri Jun 24 00:38:04 2005 From: scott at tactilemedia.com (Scott Rossi) Date: Thu, 23 Jun 2005 21:38:04 -0700 Subject: Psychedelic Bug? Message-ID: Try this on OSX, using a stack with a deep mask applied: lock screen unlock screen with visual "dissolve" See anything unusual? Regards, Scott Rossi Creative Director Tactile Media, Multimedia & Design ----- E: scott at tactilemedia.com W: http://www.tactilemedia.com From todd at geistinteractive.com Fri Jun 24 01:04:46 2005 From: todd at geistinteractive.com (Todd Geist) Date: Thu, 23 Jun 2005 22:04:46 -0700 Subject: Rollover effect interfering with Designing... Message-ID: <3A3B53E4-860E-43DD-9FCA-47105DE96B2A@geistinteractive.com> Hello. I got these little nifty handlers to do some nifty Rollover effects on my buttons. They work great... BUT I don't want them running when I am moving things around the card. How do I tell my Rollover handler to exit if I am designing a card. Something like this... On rollOn IF "I am in design mode" Then Exit rollOn --do my rollover effect end rollOn Is there some property somewhere? Thanks Todd -- Todd Geist ______________________________________ g e i s t i n t e r a c t i v e From revdan at danshafer.com Fri Jun 24 01:09:37 2005 From: revdan at danshafer.com (Dan Shafer) Date: Thu, 23 Jun 2005 22:09:37 -0700 Subject: compileIt for revolution? In-Reply-To: <0450A748-8A83-444C-B390-7605A0952312@writeme.com> References: <20050622170404.76336.qmail@web51107.mail.yahoo.com> <5D2B36D7-6FB4-40B6-8BE5-3D5BE47F9C22@danshafer.com> <6.2.1.2.1.20050623062308.01f295b0@pop3.pon.net> <0450A748-8A83-444C-B390-7605A0952312@writeme.com> Message-ID: <3ADAE4A7-BDBA-47AA-84BA-EF3E007C4A61@danshafer.com> Dennis..... You make some excellent points. I don't think that *my* programming needs should drive the direction of the language or the tool. And I'm certainly not opposed even to *major* extensions and enhancements of the language. My only real sticking point is that if and when new things are added, they be done in a way that is as cross-platform as possible, as innocuous to coders for other platforms as feasible, and implemented in a way that keeps the consistent flavor and style of xTalk, including its verbosity. Verbosity is a virtue in my mind. Not only does it make code more readable and therefore maintainable, but I can't tell you how many times I've just sort of guessed at what command or property change might have some desired effect only to have it behave exactly as predicted. Only with xTalk and Python have I had that kind of experience. And I love it! ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Dan Shafer, Revolution Consultant and Author http://www.shafermedia.com Get my book, "Revolution: Software at the Speed of Thought" From http://www.shafermedia.com/revolutionbooks.html From sarahr at genesearch.com.au Fri Jun 24 01:26:32 2005 From: sarahr at genesearch.com.au (Sarah Reichelt) Date: Fri, 24 Jun 2005 15:26:32 +1000 Subject: Rollover effect interfering with Designing... In-Reply-To: <3A3B53E4-860E-43DD-9FCA-47105DE96B2A@geistinteractive.com> References: <3A3B53E4-860E-43DD-9FCA-47105DE96B2A@geistinteractive.com> Message-ID: > I got these little nifty handlers to do some nifty Rollover effects > on my buttons. They work great... BUT I don't want them running > when I am moving things around the card. How do I tell my Rollover > handler to exit if I am designing a card. > > Something like this... > > On rollOn > > IF "I am in design mode" Then Exit rollOn > > --do my rollover effect > > end rollOn > You can key off the tool you are currently using e.g. if the tool = "pointer tool" then exit rollOn HTH, Sarah From b.xavier at internet.lu Fri Jun 24 01:31:05 2005 From: b.xavier at internet.lu (MisterX) Date: Fri, 24 Jun 2005 07:31:05 +0200 Subject: Rollover effect interfering with Designing... In-Reply-To: <3A3B53E4-860E-43DD-9FCA-47105DE96B2A@geistinteractive.com> Message-ID: <20050624044928.23DCD930106@mail.runrev.com> Hi Todd The tool function is what you're looking for. try this if the tool is "browse tool" then rollover if the tool is not "browse tool" -- design mode cheers Xavier > -----Original Message----- > From: use-revolution-bounces at lists.runrev.com > [mailto:use-revolution-bounces at lists.runrev.com] On Behalf Of > Todd Geist > Sent: Friday, June 24, 2005 07:05 > To: use-revolution at lists.runrev.com > Subject: Rollover effect interfering with Designing... > > Hello. > > I got these little nifty handlers to do some nifty Rollover > effects on my buttons. They work great... BUT I don't want > them running when I am moving things around the card. How do > I tell my Rollover handler to exit if I am designing a card. > > Something like this... > > On rollOn > > IF "I am in design mode" Then Exit rollOn > > --do my rollover effect > > end rollOn > > > > > > > > Is there some property somewhere? > > Thanks > > Todd > > > > -- > > Todd Geist > ______________________________________ > g e i s t i n t e r a c t i v e > > _______________________________________________ > use-revolution mailing list > use-revolution at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage > your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution > From todd at geistinteractive.com Fri Jun 24 01:36:51 2005 From: todd at geistinteractive.com (Todd Geist) Date: Thu, 23 Jun 2005 22:36:51 -0700 Subject: Rollover effect interfering with Designing... In-Reply-To: References: <3A3B53E4-860E-43DD-9FCA-47105DE96B2A@geistinteractive.com> Message-ID: <4FADB150-2C79-4205-B965-F9BEA0203F5B@geistinteractive.com> Thanks Sarah and Mister X! On Jun 23, 2005, at 10:26 PM, Sarah Reichelt wrote: > You can key off the tool you are currently using e.g. > if the tool = "pointer tool" then exit rollOn > > HTH, > Sarah -- Todd Geist ______________________________________ g e i s t i n t e r a c t i v e From katir at hindu.org Fri Jun 24 01:43:53 2005 From: katir at hindu.org (Sivakatirswami) Date: Thu, 23 Jun 2005 19:43:53 -1000 Subject: Confirm Long File Name Bug in Player Object In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <7792AF40-54E2-4628-8BFB-665E2621B701@hindu.org> On Jun 23, 2005, at 12:38 PM, Scott Rossi wrote: > If you want to deliver a media player now, the only way around this > is to > have your app duplicate the user's media somewhere on their drive, > rename > it, and then make sure to delete the duplicate when you're done. > For a few > files, one by one, this might be OK, but I question whether this is > a valid > workaround for potentially dozens of multi-megabyte files. Exactly my precise predicament "potentially dozens of multi-megabyte files." How about in the range of 2000! (I'm not kidding, we have a huge audio library archival project in process...) My "Audio Transcriber.rev" is deployed now to about 15 people on remote locations around the world, this app downloads files from our server on the LAN in Hawaii, transcripts are done locally, these are sent back here with a POST to a CGI on our server here and later, when ready for public, transfered to our distribution web server in Connecticutt. Meanwhile I have inhouse apps in the works that will catalog and make all these sound files and their transcriptsaccessible. I set a new standard here for file names where [2-ltr abbreviation for the author-speaker]_[international-date the talk is given]_[some unique subjectwords].mp3 e.g. we record Scott Rossi describing his work flow for software development, the file is named sr_2005-06-05_RevConWorkFlowPresentation.mp3 and the XML transcript becomes sr_2005-07-23_RevConWorkFlowPresentation.xml because I got fed up with an earlier model we developed for reasons long ago for reasons I won't get into here: based on paths past/2005/July/July_23_05/sounclip.mp3 where a data base was an absolute requirement to make any sense out of these files. The new model, which may also have a database for query work, is more accessible... we need our editors to be able to simply go to the server on the LAN and make some sense out of what they see from the Finder... My whole functional spec was envisioned with the expectation that the long file name issue, was no longer an issue. A mistake on my part... a little hacking in the early stages can be really critical to the development path. I think you can see the kind of nightmare I'm headed for... Right, sure it's not a blocker, we can still "develop" but if x Number of hours are used to implement a workaround, instead of making progress, in my book, as a production manager for publications that must get out the door on real time schedules, that's a blocker... Sivakatirswami From mwieder at ahsoftware.net Fri Jun 24 01:56:57 2005 From: mwieder at ahsoftware.net (Mark Wieder) Date: Thu, 23 Jun 2005 22:56:57 -0700 Subject: compileIt for revolution? In-Reply-To: <02C4CF0E-D724-4F72-964F-C1270F3BDE67@danshafer.com> References: <20050622165136.B64F7930157@mail.runrev.com> <16327279956.20050622155221@ahsoftware.net> <3B0F173C-E5FA-49DC-9806-5220E6915E24@danshafer.com> <4755280399.20050622233901@ahsoftware.net> <02C4CF0E-D724-4F72-964F-C1270F3BDE67@danshafer.com> Message-ID: <6551324410.20050623225657@ahsoftware.net> Dan- No argument from me on that. Maybe I was the one who fell asleep, but I didn't think anyone was arguing for features that would break the cross-platform functionality in that way. If so, that's one of those threads I'm not even going to bother getting involved in. -- -Mark Wieder mwieder at ahsoftware.net From gcanyon at inspiredlogic.com Fri Jun 24 02:23:26 2005 From: gcanyon at inspiredlogic.com (Geoff Canyon) Date: Thu, 23 Jun 2005 23:23:26 -0700 Subject: compileIt for Revolution? In-Reply-To: <20050623024647.72190.qmail@web60514.mail.yahoo.com> References: <20050623024647.72190.qmail@web60514.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <703F4B7B-5C4C-4C33-8A46-CFE10208795D@inspiredlogic.com> How about this: on eq @x,y -- note x is by reference put y into x end eq You can use that in the order you asked for like this: on mouseUp put 0 into b eq b,7 put b -- puts 7 eq b,b+3 put b -- puts 10 end mouseUp From martin at materiaprima.fsnet.co.uk Fri Jun 24 02:37:37 2005 From: martin at materiaprima.fsnet.co.uk (Martin Baxter) Date: Fri, 24 Jun 2005 07:37:37 +0100 Subject: the := operator (affectation In-Reply-To: References: <1119521638.42ba8b6699019@staffmail.ed.ac.uk> <42BAE906.6050502@fourthworld.com> <02BAB77F-922D-4777-AF6B-B218390DAFE5@writeme.com> <0c803bc64d5aa6c05097f3715c301ea2@swcp.com> Message-ID: <42BBAA31.4000608@materiaprima.fsnet.co.uk> I haven't been following this thread closely, but the impression I've got is that the arguments have centered around whether: var gets val, or an equivalent is acceptable xtalk *style*. I would say that var gets val conforms to the spirit of xtalk, but unfortunately it does not conform to the syntax, because you cannot start a program line with a container name. At present that is a syntax error, regardless of any operator that you might type after it. A line of transcript must start with a command or keyword, so to be compatible the command would be constructed like: gets A=1 or something along those lines. And all that is achieved is that you can type = instead of into. (The local command can actually take this form of course). Martin Baxter Dennis Brown wrote: > Dar, > > I am not arguing for "=", I am arguing for "gets" and some shortcut > that suits, if any. "Gets" is a cousin of "get" command that is > already a left assignment operator. It does not introduce a new > concept to the syntax, but just makes the "get" construct more > general. I actually find it a bit awkward when I have used the "get > x" construct, then decide later to use another variable instead of > "it". The editing is a lot more than just changing variable names. I > have even taken to "put x into it" on occasion, just so I can more > easily change my mind later. I would be happy to be able to change > "get x" to "myVariable gets x". > > Dennis > > On Jun 23, 2005, at 1:40 PM, Dar Scott wrote: > >> >> On Jun 23, 2005, at 11:17 AM, Dennis Brown wrote: >> >> >>> The "get x" construct is already a syntactic equivalent of "it= x" >>> (left assignment). >>> That could be expanded to the general form "it gets x". >>> Now we have a general xTalk flavored version using the new "gets" >>> keyword. >>> From there just substitute any shortcut for "gets" like "gts" or "=". >>> >>> There you have it. Elegance, consistency, and brevity! >>> >> >> There is nothing elegant about "=" for assignment. IMHO, ":=" is >> much superior and is less offensive. In mathematics "=" is a >> relation or sometimes a function or sometimes used in "where" or >> "let" syntax (named value scoping). >> >> Commands in xTalk follow the English implied-you imperatives. The >> deviation from that to a descriptive of the dataflow does not fit. I >> come from a functional programming background, but I accept the >> imperative style. >> >> Dar >> -- >> ********************************************** >> DSC (Dar Scott Consulting & Dar's Lab) >> http://www.swcp.com/dsc/ >> Programming and software >> ********************************************** >> >> _______________________________________________ >> use-revolution mailing list >> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >> subscription preferences: >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution >> > > _______________________________________________ > use-revolution mailing list > use-revolution at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution > > From revolution at derbrill.de Fri Jun 24 02:40:33 2005 From: revolution at derbrill.de (Malte Brill) Date: Fri, 24 Jun 2005 08:40:33 +0200 Subject: Psychedelic Bug? Message-ID: Hi Scott, Yes, that?s a bad one. :-) Os X.2.8 Cheers, Malte >Try this on OSX, using a stack with a deep mask applied: > lock screen > unlock screen with visual "dissolve" >See anything unusual? From eric.chatonet at sosmartsoftware.com Fri Jun 24 03:00:34 2005 From: eric.chatonet at sosmartsoftware.com (Eric Chatonet) Date: Fri, 24 Jun 2005 09:00:34 +0200 Subject: the := operator (affectation In-Reply-To: <42BB7630.9000100@fourthworld.com> References: <1119521638.42ba8b6699019@staffmail.ed.ac.uk> <42BAE906.6050502@fourthworld.com> <910225BF-C1F1-463C-B89D-8E94B29A7549@sosmartsoftware.com> <42BAFCB0.6030503@fourthworld.com> <73923EE5-FCE4-4B57-B4F9-BD0527BB76D1@sosmartsoftware.com> <42BB7630.9000100@fourthworld.com> Message-ID: <174345AA-4393-4B1A-8946-F1003CAD9270@sosmartsoftware.com> Le 24 juin 05 ? 04:55, Richard Gaskin a ?crit : > I don't really care all that much whether RunRev adds an OPTION for > simpler assignment syntax to make it easier to use for folks > experienced in nearly any other language to pick up Transcript. Agreed. Finally, I think that all this discusssion highlights a very interesting point: "hard" developers begin to take Rev seriously :-) That's new and did not happen with HC... leaving aside a few genius. > And I don't care that much which operator is used so long as it > isn't "==" since C programmers already lose millions each year > tracking down bugs related to mistyping it. :-) Best Regards from Paris, Eric Chatonet. ---------------------------------------------------------------- So Smart Software For institutions, companies and associations Built-to-order applications: management, multimedia, internet, etc. Windows, Mac OS and Linux... With the French touch Free plugins and tutorials on my website ---------------------------------------------------------------- Web site http://www.sosmartsoftware.com/ Email eric.chatonet at sosmartsoftware.com/ Phone 33 (0)1 43 31 77 62 Mobile 33 (0)6 20 74 50 86 ---------------------------------------------------------------- From chipp at chipp.com Fri Jun 24 03:17:47 2005 From: chipp at chipp.com (Chipp Walters) Date: Fri, 24 Jun 2005 02:17:47 -0500 Subject: Additive Images In-Reply-To: <7DE14B82-9E3B-4289-A749-61A429DC622C@all-auctions.com> References: <20050623174410.9BEDC930186@mail.runrev.com> <804C4D01-E44B-11D9-BC41-000A95F0C744@leo.nmc.edu> <7DE14B82-9E3B-4289-A749-61A429DC622C@all-auctions.com> Message-ID: <42BBB39B.3050100@chipp.com> Hi Rick, You might want to check out my compositing stack at: http://www.altuit.com/webs/altuit2/RunRev/Downloads.htm best, Chipp Rick Harrison wrote: > I'm trying to create an overlay of three images so that it looks like a > triple exposure. > This seems like a path that others may have gone down in the past with > Revolution, so I > thought perhaps one of your image processing minds might have some good > tips or pointers. From gcanyon at inspiredlogic.com Fri Jun 24 03:27:09 2005 From: gcanyon at inspiredlogic.com (Geoff Canyon) Date: Fri, 24 Jun 2005 00:27:09 -0700 Subject: compileIt for revolution? In-Reply-To: <42B9F9D8.4080302@fourthworld.com> References: <20050622160127.1D86B93012B@mail.runrev.com> <42B9F9D8.4080302@fourthworld.com> Message-ID: <2CA261D3-98AD-4DC3-84DF-D44C69A55D5C@inspiredlogic.com> On Jun 22, 2005, at 4:52 PM, Richard Gaskin wrote: > And as Geoff Canyon discovered, you can go one step further by > drawing all polygons as a single object, but just including a blank > line in the points property wherever you want a discontiguous object. Actually, I think Tuviah told me that one too. ;-) On the subject of speed, obviously there are things that are more challenging in Revolution. But anyone who says, "My task is too complex/slow," needs to post source code here. Applying a few extra brains to the problem often yields impressive results. Slow code can be written in any language. Transcript makes it very easy to write code, but also very easy to write slow code. gc From ambassador at fourthworld.com Fri Jun 24 03:36:40 2005 From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin) Date: Fri, 24 Jun 2005 00:36:40 -0700 Subject: compileIt for revolution? In-Reply-To: <2CA261D3-98AD-4DC3-84DF-D44C69A55D5C@inspiredlogic.com> References: <20050622160127.1D86B93012B@mail.runrev.com> <42B9F9D8.4080302@fourthworld.com> <2CA261D3-98AD-4DC3-84DF-D44C69A55D5C@inspiredlogic.com> Message-ID: <42BBB808.9040501@fourthworld.com> Geoff Canyon wrote: > > On Jun 22, 2005, at 4:52 PM, Richard Gaskin wrote: > >> And as Geoff Canyon discovered, you can go one step further by >> drawing all polygons as a single object, but just including a blank >> line in the points property wherever you want a discontiguous object. > > > Actually, I think Tuviah told me that one too. ;-) > > On the subject of speed, obviously there are things that are more > challenging in Revolution. But anyone who says, "My task is too > complex/slow," needs to post source code here. Applying a few extra > brains to the problem often yields impressive results. > > Slow code can be written in any language. Transcript makes it very easy > to write code, but also very easy to write slow code. I was browsing the DMOZ Transcript listing and just noticed the addition of your Beautiful Transcript page -- so cool: -- Richard Gaskin Managing Editor, revJournal _______________________________________________________ Rev tips, tutorials and more: http://www.revJournal.com From dcragg at lacscentre.co.uk Fri Jun 24 03:50:17 2005 From: dcragg at lacscentre.co.uk (Dave Cragg) Date: Fri, 24 Jun 2005 08:50:17 +0100 Subject: the := operator (affectation In-Reply-To: <42BB7630.9000100@fourthworld.com> References: <1119521638.42ba8b6699019@staffmail.ed.ac.uk> <42BAE906.6050502@fourthworld.com> <910225BF-C1F1-463C-B89D-8E94B29A7549@sosmartsoftware.com> <42BAFCB0.6030503@fourthworld.com> <73923EE5-FCE4-4B57-B4F9-BD0527BB76D1@sosmartsoftware.com> <42BB7630.9000100@fourthworld.com> Message-ID: On 24 Jun 2005, at 03:55, Richard Gaskin wrote: > It's hard to get less "xTalk-like" than RegEx, but those who use it > seem to like it and those who don't aren't bothered by its > availability. Nobody *likes* RegEx. But it is powerful, and we use it because there is no practical alternative. I wish there were. An assignment operator is a different kettle of fish. I'm against adding an assignment operator whether it be "=" or ":=" because it would add a fundamental change to the way statements are structured. (I.e all xTalk statements begin with a command in the form of a single word imperative.) I'm not against fundamental change if it adds something substantially new to the language, but in this case the purpose is just to save a bit of typing. The downside is potential confusion among new users (and old ones for that matter). For example, "put x into y" is used for all containers in xTalk: variables, fields, buttons, images (and even URLs where we treat them as containers). Would the same apply to a new assignment operator? Consistency would say it does. x = 4 field "myField" = "This is some text" button "myButton" = line 1 to 4 of x image "myImage" = url "binfile:myImage.jpg" the selObj = somevalue Once we start seeing statements like these we basically have two languages being used at once when most of us have a hard time learning one. So my plea is "Don't mess with the language without good reason." And I don't see one in this case. Cheers Dave From hef at fisiltd.co.uk Fri Jun 24 03:55:05 2005 From: hef at fisiltd.co.uk (Howard Freeman) Date: Fri, 24 Jun 2005 08:55:05 +0100 Subject: mysql oddities In-Reply-To: <20050624021545.0036A9301DE@mail.runrev.com> References: <20050624021545.0036A9301DE@mail.runrev.com> Message-ID: I've been using rev to link up to MySQL for a while but I've just changed my web space supplier and I can't connect to MySQL. I thought that this was their problem but it's stranger than that. If I use the database query builder then the connection is made and I can see the tables and fields and can query the database. When I try to do the same thing in my own stack - and those of other people who use MySQL - I get connection errors. What I'd really like to do is get inside the database query builder to find out what commands it is using to connect to my database. Alternatively, can someone provide some tips about the port variable in the revopendatabase function? I'm just putting the port number as a colon and number immediately after the host url and I'm sure this is right, eg :3337. Is there any other way to write it? Also, I don't want to use the database query manager all the time because I intend to distribute this as a standalone to users of the MySQL database. Thanks Howard From eric.chatonet at sosmartsoftware.com Fri Jun 24 04:19:46 2005 From: eric.chatonet at sosmartsoftware.com (Eric Chatonet) Date: Fri, 24 Jun 2005 10:19:46 +0200 Subject: Add it to Bugzilla Message-ID: <524B7A87-A8FF-46B9-903D-8229C75ADF4A@sosmartsoftware.com> Hi all, List traffic increases each day. Many posts end in a "bugzilla it" (between 1 and 5 each day...) As if Bugzilla was the panacea :-) Overloading Bugzilla is not efficient for all of us and Runrev guys either. I have some experience with Rev and I found out many times that the nasty bug was in my code. So first, let us check carefully our code: isolating the problem in a brand new test stack is a good way (so many things can interfere). Let us try to reproduce the "bug" knowing the conditions with precision. Let us change the conditions to track the beast. If it turns out that's really a bug, then let us take list advice... And then, may be, it's worth to go to Bugzilla, check first if this bug is not yet in the database (with another approach) and describe the occurence with precision, the right words, samples of code, etc. :-) Second, as I told it lately in another post, different kinds of bugs have to be considered: Those which can affect standalones: they can be severe since they affect our end users (i.e; our professional ability/credibility). In this category, some ones come from the engine: we can't do anything except to go to bugzilla :-( Other ones can come from Transcript routines (as was the recent Answer Dialog bug with 2.6, revGoUrl in some conditions, etc.): many guys on this list pay attention to these ones and provide patchs or useful workarounds. Finally, there are bugs (or dysfunctions) which affect only the IDE behaviour: very irritating but only for us :-) They are less important than the first ones. So, let us learn to estimate what is worth to be bugzilled and how before running: it will be more useful for Runrev guys and all of us. Best Regards from Paris, Eric Chatonet. ---------------------------------------------------------------- So Smart Software For institutions, companies and associations Built-to-order applications: management, multimedia, internet, etc. Windows, Mac OS and Linux... With the French touch Free plugins and tutorials on my website ---------------------------------------------------------------- Web site http://www.sosmartsoftware.com/ Email eric.chatonet at sosmartsoftware.com/ Phone 33 (0)1 43 31 77 62 Mobile 33 (0)6 20 74 50 86 ---------------------------------------------------------------- From christian.langers at education.lu Fri Jun 24 04:21:51 2005 From: christian.langers at education.lu (Langers Christian) Date: Fri, 24 Jun 2005 10:21:51 +0200 Subject: compileIt for revolution? In-Reply-To: <2CA261D3-98AD-4DC3-84DF-D44C69A55D5C@inspiredlogic.com> References: <20050622160127.1D86B93012B@mail.runrev.com> <42B9F9D8.4080302@fourthworld.com> <2CA261D3-98AD-4DC3-84DF-D44C69A55D5C@inspiredlogic.com> Message-ID: Hello, > Slow code can be written in any language. Transcript makes it very > easy to write code, but also very easy to write slow code. Could you, please, give us (newbies/intermediate scriptesr) some examples of fast/slow script code ? Thanks, Christian L. Le 24 juin 05 ? 09:27, Geoff Canyon a ?crit : > > On Jun 22, 2005, at 4:52 PM, Richard Gaskin wrote: > > >> And as Geoff Canyon discovered, you can go one step further by >> drawing all polygons as a single object, but just including a >> blank line in the points property wherever you want a >> discontiguous object. >> > > Actually, I think Tuviah told me that one too. ;-) > > On the subject of speed, obviously there are things that are more > challenging in Revolution. But anyone who says, "My task is too > complex/slow," needs to post source code here. Applying a few extra > brains to the problem often yields impressive results. > > Slow code can be written in any language. Transcript makes it very > easy to write code, but also very easy to write slow code. > > gc > _______________________________________________ > use-revolution mailing list > use-revolution at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution > From eric.chatonet at sosmartsoftware.com Fri Jun 24 05:01:49 2005 From: eric.chatonet at sosmartsoftware.com (Eric Chatonet) Date: Fri, 24 Jun 2005 11:01:49 +0200 Subject: Fast/slow code example (was: Re: compileIt for revolution?) In-Reply-To: References: <20050622160127.1D86B93012B@mail.runrev.com> <42B9F9D8.4080302@fourthworld.com> <2CA261D3-98AD-4DC3-84DF-D44C69A55D5C@inspiredlogic.com> Message-ID: <2E3405F2-5675-410A-AA14-F1C7F98AB6D5@sosmartsoftware.com> Hi Christian, Le 24 juin 05 ? 10:21, Langers Christian a ?crit : > Could you, please, give us (newbies/intermediate scriptesr) some > examples of fast/slow script code ? They would be too many :-) In fact, the problem is often more an architecture issue than a simple code issue. But here is one tiny trivial example among thousands to give you some clues: on CheckList repeat with i = 1 to the number of lines of fld "List1" set the itemDel to tab put item 2 of line i of fld "List1" & cr after fld "List2" end repeat end CheckList Main errors in the above 4 lines are: manipulate data directly from a field (a lot of work for the engine) use the "repeat with i" form slower than the "repeat for each" form (especially noticeable with long lists) force a screen redraw at each repetition (that's the must for slowing down) set the itemDel unnecessarily at each repetition The result with 1000 lines: more than 13 seconds... Better code: on CheckList local tList, tLine, tNewList ----- put fld "List1" into tList set the itemDel to tab repeat for each line tLine in tList put item 2 of tLine & cr after tNewList end repeat put tNewList into fld "List2" end CheckList manipulate data into a variable use the "repeat for each" form use one screen redraw only set the itemDel only when needed The result with 1000 lines: less than 20 milliseconds! 650 times faster... Keep in mind that to answer correctly your request, this post should be a 300 pages book :-) May be Dan wrote it? Best Regards from Paris, Eric Chatonet. ---------------------------------------------------------------- So Smart Software For institutions, companies and associations Built-to-order applications: management, multimedia, internet, etc. Windows, Mac OS and Linux... With the French touch Free plugins and tutorials on my website ---------------------------------------------------------------- Web site http://www.sosmartsoftware.com/ Email eric.chatonet at sosmartsoftware.com/ Phone 33 (0)1 43 31 77 62 Mobile 33 (0)6 20 74 50 86 ---------------------------------------------------------------- From engleerica at yahoo.com Fri Jun 24 05:19:35 2005 From: engleerica at yahoo.com (Eric Engle) Date: Fri, 24 Jun 2005 02:19:35 -0700 (PDT) Subject: compileIt for Revolution? In-Reply-To: <20050624082336.77045930208@mail.runrev.com> Message-ID: <20050624091935.74425.qmail@web60522.mail.yahoo.com> How about this: on eq @x,y -- note x is by reference put y into x end eq You can use that in the order you asked for like this: on mouseUp put 0 into b eq b,7 put b -- puts 7 eq b,b+3 put b -- puts 10 end mouseUp Does Transcript allow pointers?!? If so, big news to me (new in latest engine or something?!?) I tested your handler without the pointer symbol (@) and it seemed to work. If I were to do it that way I would function equals theVar,theVal put theVal into theVar return theVar end equals then in the script equals(b,2) does affect 2 to b. Both seem to work. However it is still not infixing. So its not really what I'm looking for. Also earlier someone suggested you could use == for assignment. I don't think that is the case, but I am no expert in C. I thought that all languages other than basic use two different operators for affectation and comparison to avoid any confusion. Allowing == to operate assignments would be illogical. I'm not sure why I refer to affectation as affectation and not assignment. I speak French and German fluently, maybe that is why? __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com From b.xavier at internet.lu Fri Jun 24 06:25:43 2005 From: b.xavier at internet.lu (MisterX) Date: Fri, 24 Jun 2005 12:25:43 +0200 Subject: TIP: New Image Checking Script v2 Message-ID: <20050624094359.E232493011A@mail.runrev.com> OK after the past comments received, here the latest script to scan all your opened stacks for existing images and thus avoid possible conflict or patterns or icons not showing up correctly. I added a template to list the images' locations too since that could be useful to find the conflicting images... ListImageNamelocations will thus list all locations of an image with a name in the long id of card form. I changed the way the string was searched in the image search loops so it's faster too. Which is faster "is in" or "offset()>0" The ImageIDExists and ImageNameExists are boolean functions and made for speed not for extensive search; for a listing of the container of the image name you might search use the ListImageNamelocations or make your own variations. It's as simple as it gets so you can extend with your own wrappers or within your scripts. Other possibilities, if you want to contribute back (those wrappers might be intersting for many different occasions - like listing images by name or id or both in a list and so on. Before you decide to script them, ask if i haven't dont so already, i might sooner or later. Also added 2 handlers to update the image list on a per-card or per-stack (with all the cards) into the image global database - this preventing a complete rescan. There's a "force" parameter to make sure you can resynch if you made extensive changes. For most cases the Force=ON should be ok and not felt. Enjoy Xavier -- http://monsieurx.com/TAOO -- Global XOS function ImageIDExists imgID RefreshGlobalImages true put the keys of xos into ilist filter ilist with "StackImages,*" filter ilist without "*imgcount" sort ilist repeat for each line thisstack in ilist if cr&imgID&comma is in cr&xos[thisstack] then return true end repeat return false end ImageIDExists function ImageNameExists imgName RefreshGlobalImages true put the keys of xos into ilist filter ilist with "StackImages,*" filter ilist without "*imgcount" sort ilist repeat for each line thisstack in ilist if comma & imgName & CR is in xos[thisstack]&CR then return true end repeat return false end ImageNameExists function ListImageNamelocations imgName RefreshGlobalImages true put the keys of xos into ilist filter ilist with "StackImages,*" filter ilist without "*imgcount" sort ilist put empty into response repeat for each line thisstack in ilist if comma & imgName & CR is in xos[thisstack] & CR then put "card id" && item 3 of thisstack && "of stack" && quoteit(item 2 of thisstack) & cr after response end repeat if response is not empty then delete last char of response return response end ListImageNamelocations on RefreshCardImages thisstack,cdid put the number of images in cd id cdid of stack thisstack into imgcount if imgcount is not xos["StackImages",thisstack,cdid,"imgcount"] then put imgcount into xos["StackImages",thisstack,cdid,"imgcount"] repeat with x = 1 to imgcount put the properties of img x of cd id cdid of stack thisstack into imgprops put imgprops["id"],imgprops["name"] into line x of xos["StackImages",thisstack,cdid] end repeat end if end RefreshCardImages on RefreshStackImages thisstack, force put the number of cds in stack thisstack into cdcount repeat with c = 1 to cdcount set cursor to busy put the short id of cd c of stack thisstack into cdid put the number of images in cd id cdid of stack thisstack into imgcount if cdcount>1000 then put "scanning stack:"&&thisstack & ", card" && c &"/"&cdcount&" - "&imgcount && "images found" if force is true or imgcount is not xos["StackImages",thisstack,cdid,"imgcount"] then put imgcount into xos["StackImages",thisstack,cdid,"imgcount"] repeat with x = 1 to imgcount put the properties of img x of cd id cdid of stack thisstack into imgprops put imgprops["id"],imgprops["name"] into line x of xos["StackImages",thisstack,cdid] end repeat end if end repeat end RefreshStackImages on RefreshGlobalImages force put the windows into wlist repeat for each line thisstack in the windows RefreshStackImages thisstack, force end repeat end RefreshGlobalImages From christian.langers at education.lu Fri Jun 24 06:42:13 2005 From: christian.langers at education.lu (Langers Christian) Date: Fri, 24 Jun 2005 12:42:13 +0200 Subject: Fast/slow code example (was: Re: compileIt for revolution?) In-Reply-To: <2E3405F2-5675-410A-AA14-F1C7F98AB6D5@sosmartsoftware.com> References: <20050622160127.1D86B93012B@mail.runrev.com> <42B9F9D8.4080302@fourthworld.com> <2CA261D3-98AD-4DC3-84DF-D44C69A55D5C@inspiredlogic.com> <2E3405F2-5675-410A-AA14-F1C7F98AB6D5@sosmartsoftware.com> Message-ID: <442A7934-7BDE-4D72-97BE-71B8E1CCBF61@education.lu> Thanks for your answer, >> Keep in mind that to answer correctly your request, this post >> should be a 300 pages book :-) Wouldn't it be time to write that book ? ;-) I see a little bit better how to optimize my scripts... Perhaps, I will find more infos in the online scripting conferences ? Christian from Luxembourg From jbondy at sover.net Fri Jun 24 07:26:32 2005 From: jbondy at sover.net (Jon) Date: Fri, 24 Jun 2005 07:26:32 -0400 Subject: compileIt for revolution? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <42BBEDE8.4010109@sover.net> With all due respect, Jim, if you are trying to do even simple math on a large array of numbers (like computing a histogram of image data), Rev is simply too slow to use. It has nothing to do with data structures: it has to do with slow pCode trying to run tight loops. Jon Jim Bufalini wrote: >Guess I'll add my two cents. > >I'm a newbie to "Rev" (Revolution) but worked over 25 years in "Rev" >(Revelation), another similar, high-typed, extensible, flexible, run as you >program, script language. It's an implementation of Pick on the PC. I was >considered an expert. I also owned a company and employed programmers. > >I too, have heard these discussions hundreds of times, over the years. > >Speed of execution rarely relates to code, or the language, or whether it's >compiled, or in pcode or whatever. It always has to do with data, whether >the data is in arrays, or a database, or whatever object. Any language can >add 2 to 2 instantly, regardless of the syntax. > >You don't get speed by changing languages, or writing lengthy workarounds, >or complaining about your tools. You get speed by designing, in advance, the >layout of your data. > >This requires straight thinking. 1. Know what you are setting out to >accomplish before you type one character of code (what are your client's >(your) goals?). 2. Layout and optimize the data you are going to access >BEFORE writing any code. How are you indexing the data? Is it real indexing >or organization? 3. Now write your code. If you find yourself writing >spaghetti code, STOP, go back to step 1. > >Jim > >-----Original Message----- >From: use-revolution-bounces at lists.runrev.com >[mailto:use-revolution-bounces at lists.runrev.com]On Behalf Of Dan Shafer >Sent: Wednesday, June 22, 2005 12:12 PM >To: How to use Revolution >Subject: Re: compileIt for revolution? > > >This whole discussion has been revealing and intriguing to me. > >My favorite programming language is Smalltalk. But before it was >possible to create UIs for Smalltalk without writing code, I found it >cumbersome. When a product called WindowBuilder came along, I felt >like we'd achieved the ultimate development environment. In many >ways, I still think that. Smalltalk had other problems, >unfortunately, that made it great to code in, difficult to impossible >to deploy. > >Then my second favorite language was Python. The GUI-building tools >for Python are pathetic to non-existent. But the language is powerful >and elegant and extends naturally. If the PythonCard project I was >engaged in before I discovered Revolution had been on a fast track or >complete, odds are I'd have never used Rev. > >Now I favor Transcript and RunRev. Building UIs is all but painless >and 95% of what I want or need to do in creating apps is simple >inside the elegance of Transcript. But Transcript isn't object- >oriented. > >Two aphorisms came to mind as I read this entire thread again today. > >One is, "No good programmer uses only one tool for everything." > >The other is, "It's a poor workman who blames his tools." > > > > >~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ >Dan Shafer, Revolution Consultant and Author >http://www.shafermedia.com >Get my book, "Revolution: Software at the Speed of Thought" > From http://www.shafermedia.com/revolutionbooks.html > > > > >_______________________________________________ >use-revolution mailing list >use-revolution at lists.runrev.com >Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription >preferences: >http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution > > > >_______________________________________________ >use-revolution mailing list >use-revolution at lists.runrev.com >Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: >http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution > > > > From capellan2000 at yahoo.com Fri Jun 24 07:30:11 2005 From: capellan2000 at yahoo.com (Alejandro Tejada) Date: Fri, 24 Jun 2005 04:30:11 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Additive Images In-Reply-To: <20050624082336.77045930208@mail.runrev.com> Message-ID: <20050624113012.27323.qmail@web40524.mail.yahoo.com> Hi Rick, i've post in my site a stack that uses Ink effects to explain the differences between RGB and CMYK colors. I use this stack in my classes. i remember that i gave in photoshop the colors red, green, blue, cyan, magenta, yellow and black to images. when you click the button for cmyk images, a slider appears that lets you change the transparency of the images. hope this could give you some hints about your task at hand. :-) al on Fri, 24 Jun 2005 Rick Harrison wrote: > I'm trying to create an overlay of three images so > that it looks like a triple exposure. > Or even possibly an unlimited amount up to the point > I want to stop adding. Probably > would use a slider control for this to adjust > levels, number of images etc. [snip] > This seems like a path that others may have gone > down in the past with Revolution, so I > thought perhaps one of your image processing minds > might have some good tips or pointers. Visit my site: http://www.geocities.com/capellan2000/ ____________________________________________________ Yahoo! Sports Rekindle the Rivalries. Sign up for Fantasy Football http://football.fantasysports.yahoo.com From jbv.silences at Club-Internet.fr Fri Jun 24 07:46:10 2005 From: jbv.silences at Club-Internet.fr (jbv) Date: Fri, 24 Jun 2005 13:46:10 +0200 Subject: Fast/slow code example (was: Re: compileIt for revolution?) References: <20050622160127.1D86B93012B@mail.runrev.com> <42B9F9D8.4080302@fourthworld.com> <2CA261D3-98AD-4DC3-84DF-D44C69A55D5C@inspiredlogic.com> <442A7934-7BDE-4D72-97BE-71B8E1CCBF61@education.lu> Message-ID: <42BBF27F.72AD5E8E@Club-Internet.fr> I think such a book should make a distinction between slow/fast code in general, and specific Transcript tricks to speed up (or to avoid slowing down) your code. Regarding the later, you can check the following url : http://www.sonsothunder.com/index2.htm?http://www.sonsothunder.com/devres/revolution/revolution.htm under "scripting tricks". By following some advices in these 3 papers, I've been able to speed up some script by a factor of 5 to 7, which is greatly apreciated when one has to run heavy tasks online with Rev cgi... JB > Thanks for your answer, > > >> Keep in mind that to answer correctly your request, this post > >> should be a 300 pages book :-) > > Wouldn't it be time to write that book ? ;-) > > I see a little bit better how to optimize my scripts... > > Perhaps, I will find more infos in the online scripting conferences ? > From alex at tweedly.net Fri Jun 24 07:39:57 2005 From: alex at tweedly.net (Alex Tweedly) Date: Fri, 24 Jun 2005 12:39:57 +0100 Subject: Fast/slow code example In-Reply-To: <442A7934-7BDE-4D72-97BE-71B8E1CCBF61@education.lu> References: <20050622160127.1D86B93012B@mail.runrev.com> <42B9F9D8.4080302@fourthworld.com> <2CA261D3-98AD-4DC3-84DF-D44C69A55D5C@inspiredlogic.com> <2E3405F2-5675-410A-AA14-F1C7F98AB6D5@sosmartsoftware.com> <442A7934-7BDE-4D72-97BE-71B8E1CCBF61@education.lu> Message-ID: <42BBF10D.2020505@tweedly.net> Langers Christian wrote: > Thanks for your answer, > >>> Keep in mind that to answer correctly your request, this post >>> should be a 300 pages book :-) >> > > > Wouldn't it be time to write that book ? ;-) > > I see a little bit better how to optimize my scripts... > > Perhaps, I will find more infos in the online scripting conferences ? > See http://www.sonsothunder.com/index2.htm?http://www.sonsothunder.com/devres/revolution/revolution.htm particularly the section headed "Scripting tricks" and http://www.fourthworld.com/embassy/articles/scriptstyle.html (Only a small part about speed - but lots of other good stuff in there). But always remember the key points - don't optimize too early - don't optimize unless it matters - get the architecture right first, then the data structure, then the code -- Alex Tweedly http://www.tweedly.net -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.323 / Virus Database: 267.8.0/27 - Release Date: 23/06/2005 From jbondy at sover.net Fri Jun 24 07:56:19 2005 From: jbondy at sover.net (Jon) Date: Fri, 24 Jun 2005 07:56:19 -0400 Subject: compileIt for Revolution? In-Reply-To: <20050623182016.31751.qmail@web60513.mail.yahoo.com> References: <20050623182016.31751.qmail@web60513.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <42BBF4E3.7060406@sover.net> I wasn't going to say this before, but I agree that XTalk has NOTHING to do with Pascal. The control structures are entirely different (no FOR, no WHILE, different CASE), there is no type checking, no variable scoping, no procedures. The quotes you provide only illustrate the point that some people who write books are clueless. Jon, in hyper-curmudgeon mode Eric Engle wrote: >>Message: 2 >>Date: Thu, 23 Jun 2005 10:15:28 -0400 >>From: Mikey >>Subject: Re: compileIt for Revolution? >>To: How to use Revolution >>Message-ID: <9b408d8e05062307151adcb9c4 at mail.gmail.com> >>Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 >> >> >> >>>Try not to get your knickers in a twist. In case you haven't noticed, >>>hypertalk/transcript is clearly a Pascal derived language, they just got >>> >>> >>rid of >> >> >>>begin/end, loosely typed it, and made the operator of affectation verbose. >>> >>> >> OMG that's funny. Don't forget scoping, and the overarching >>paradigm of cards, backgrounds, stacks scripts, properties, and >>messages and an inheritence path, and the vocabulary, and the fact >>that nobody could describe what it was, and the fact that it was >>originally intended to be interpreted not compiled, and therefore DO, >>and oh hell. You weren't serious so I don't have to add anything >>here. I mean - really - I was pretty sure xTalk was inspired by >>COBOL's verbose syntax and...and... . Now >>that I look at it, I'm having a hard time telling the difference >>between BASIC and LISP and APL. Dude, you slay me. >> >>Ok, now in case you were serious (and if you were I'm sorry for >>laughing and making fun of your post) xTalk is now a legacy language >>type with expectations and conventions and philosophy. I'm reasonably >>sure that := doesn't fit that philosophy, nor does a=b. If you want >>compact, you need to go somewhere else. xTalk is intentionally >>verbose. Philosophically, I like it that way. It means that it is >>much easier for me to read someone else's code, especially since most >>of you can't write an intelligent comment in your code to save your >>lives. >> >>I'm going to stop reading this thread now before I REALLY get flamed. >> >> > >Well, yes, that might be a good idea actually. Intelligent debates are >generally dispassionate and reasonable since intelligent people are after the >truth as opposed to stroking their ego. > >You might have heard of the maxim "Fortiter in re , suaviter in modo." If not, >look it up. In any event: think about it. > >Substantively, I stand by my story: xTalk is a scripting language which is >clearly derived from Pascal. > >Don't take my word for it though; get a copy of think pascal (it's free) and >look at its debugger and hypercards, its script formatter and hypercards. Or, >just read wikipedia. > >"HyperTalk scripts are fairly similar to written English, and use a logic >structure similar to the Pascal programming language." >http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HyperTalk > >"HyperTalk is the scripting language of HyperCard and its clones. It is similar >in syntax to Pascal, and "includes enough object-like data structures and >programming aids to make it a quite useful development environment" (Allen >103)." >http://www.iath.virginia.edu/elab/hfl0133.html > >There's even an entire article on macTech "Comparing HyperTalk to Pascal" which >says, >"Both Pascal and HyperTalk provide powerful if-then-else control structures >with very similar syntax." >"The specification and calling of user defined functions in Pascal and >HyperTalk is almost identical." >http://www.mactech.com/articles/mactech/Vol.04/04.09/HyperTalk,Pascal/ >"Based on the comparisons presented above between Pascal and HyperTalk, it >should be clear that HyperTalk is indeed a powerful language with many >similarities to Pascal." > >I could keep looking, but I think I've made my point. > >__________________________________________________ >Do You Yahoo!? >Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around >http://mail.yahoo.com >_______________________________________________ >use-revolution mailing list >use-revolution at lists.runrev.com >Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: >http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution > > > > From eric.chatonet at sosmartsoftware.com Fri Jun 24 08:10:43 2005 From: eric.chatonet at sosmartsoftware.com (Eric Chatonet) Date: Fri, 24 Jun 2005 14:10:43 +0200 Subject: compileIt for Revolution? In-Reply-To: <20050623182016.31751.qmail@web60513.mail.yahoo.com> References: <20050623182016.31751.qmail@web60513.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <6E7D19B2-E130-4373-A568-6BBE43805B47@sosmartsoftware.com> Le 23 juin 05 ? 20:20, Eric Engle a ?crit : > xTalk is a scripting language which is clearly derived from Pascal. I never think of that... Is it a real scoop I missed since 20 years, only bad news or a weird analysis from some keyhole journalism? :-) Best regards from Paris, Eric Chatonet. ---------------------------------------------------------------- So Smart Software For institutions, companies and associations Built-to-order applications: management, multimedia, internet, etc. Windows, Mac OS and Linux... With the French touch Free plugins and tutorials on my website ---------------------------------------------------------------- Web site http://www.sosmartsoftware.com/ Email eric.chatonet at sosmartsoftware.com/ Phone 33 (0)1 43 31 77 62 Mobile 33 (0)6 20 74 50 86 ---------------------------------------------------------------- From JimCarwardine at OwnYourFuture-net.com Fri Jun 24 08:23:17 2005 From: JimCarwardine at OwnYourFuture-net.com (Jim Carwardine) Date: Fri, 24 Jun 2005 09:23:17 -0300 Subject: Rev won't start in Mac OS 10.3.9 In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Hi Bill... I tried running with extensions off, except the ones you mentioned and I got the message that Revolution couldn't start because the OTUtilityLib could not be found. At least Rev just didn't quit without a trace. I did a search on my system folder and couldn't find it anywhere either. I thought It might have been relegated to the inactive extensions folder or something. I'm now getting that message whenever I run any OS 9 app so I may have a bigger problem now... Jim on 6/17/05 8:15 AM, Bill wrote: > Have you tried it with all extensions off yet? I run classic with only the > network and printing extensions and have no problem with color picker not > being there. > > > On 6/16/05 8:50 PM, "Jim Carwardine" > wrote: > >> Hi Jacque... Looks like the color picker is in the right place. I got this >> report from the extensions manager for missing extensions... >> >> Name Size Version Type Creator >> ------------------------------------------------------------------ >> >> Extensions >> ------------------------------------------------------------------ >> ------------------------------------------------------------------ >> Classic RAVE - - shlb rvgl >> >> >> System Folder >> ------------------------------------------------------------------ >> ------------------------------------------------------------------ >> Classic Support UI - - bbox csui >> >> >> Startup Items >> >> Anything look familiar there? Jim >> >> on 6/16/05 1:01 AM, J. Landman Gay wrote: >> >>> On 6/15/05 8:15 PM, Jim Carwardine wrote: >>> >>>> Hi Folks... I moved to a Titanium G4 Powerbook 500 MHz running Tiger on >>>> which I was running Rev in Classic mode. Everything ran fine. I had a >>>> problem with the display and had to switch to a G4 Powerbook 1 GHz running >>>> OS 10.3.9 - Panther, I think - and I can't get the IDE to start or run any >>>> standalone apps in Classic. I had been using Rev for Mac OS 9 on a G3 >>>> Powerbook under OS 9.2. >>>> >>>> I get no error or freeze or anything. It seems to start up, I see the app >>>> name in the right of the menu bar, then it just disappears with no trace. >>>> >>>> Anyone know what's happening? Anyone have a 15 inch G4 Titanium Powerbook >>>> display they don't want? ... Jim >>> >>> This happened to me when I had moved the Color Picker out of the OS 9 >>> extensions folder. For some reason, the engine checked for it and quit >>> if it wasn't available. Sometimes OS X moves a bunch of extensions out >>> of the OS 9 extension folder, so check to see if that one is missing. >>> There are a couple of others that are required too, but I can't remember >>> which ones they are. > > | | | > )_) )_) )_) > )___))___))___)\ > )____)____)_____)\\ > _____|____|____|____\\\__ > -------\ /--------- http://www.bluewatermaritime.com > ^^^^^ ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ > ^^^^ ^^^^ ^^^ ^^ > ^^^^ ^^^ > > 24 hour cell: (787) 378-6190 > fax: (787) 809-8426 > > Blue Water Maritime > P.O. Box 91 > Puerto Real, PR 00740 > > > > _______________________________________________ > use-revolution mailing list > use-revolution at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription > preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution -- OYF is... Highly resourceful people working together. Own Your Future Consulting Services Limited, 1959 Upper Water Street, Suite 1700, Halifax, Nova Scotia. B3J 3N2 Phone: 902-823-2339. Fax: 902-823-2139 What?s New... * Have you ever hired an employee who didn?t work out? * Did you do that on purpose? Probably not... If you want to greatly improve your hiring process, check out our new hiring process... www.HiringSmart.ca/ns and... www.KeepingTheBest.ca/ns From jbondy at sover.net Fri Jun 24 08:29:08 2005 From: jbondy at sover.net (Jon) Date: Fri, 24 Jun 2005 08:29:08 -0400 Subject: compileIt for revolution? In-Reply-To: <2CA261D3-98AD-4DC3-84DF-D44C69A55D5C@inspiredlogic.com> References: <20050622160127.1D86B93012B@mail.runrev.com> <42B9F9D8.4080302@fourthworld.com> <2CA261D3-98AD-4DC3-84DF-D44C69A55D5C@inspiredlogic.com> Message-ID: <42BBFC94.8030905@sover.net> Geoff: If anyone wants to try to help me speed optimize my image processing loops, download the obvious program from my user space. Load an image of your choice (but hopefully larger than your screen, to be realistic), then select Brightness, then Linear. Let the optimization wars begin! :) Jon Geoff Canyon wrote: > > On Jun 22, 2005, at 4:52 PM, Richard Gaskin wrote: > >> And as Geoff Canyon discovered, you can go one step further by >> drawing all polygons as a single object, but just including a blank >> line in the points property wherever you want a discontiguous object. > > > Actually, I think Tuviah told me that one too. ;-) > > On the subject of speed, obviously there are things that are more > challenging in Revolution. But anyone who says, "My task is too > complex/slow," needs to post source code here. Applying a few extra > brains to the problem often yields impressive results. > > Slow code can be written in any language. Transcript makes it very > easy to write code, but also very easy to write slow code. > > gc > _______________________________________________ > use-revolution mailing list > use-revolution at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution > > From jbondy at sover.net Fri Jun 24 08:31:35 2005 From: jbondy at sover.net (Jon) Date: Fri, 24 Jun 2005 08:31:35 -0400 Subject: Fast/slow code example In-Reply-To: <2E3405F2-5675-410A-AA14-F1C7F98AB6D5@sosmartsoftware.com> References: <20050622160127.1D86B93012B@mail.runrev.com> <42B9F9D8.4080302@fourthworld.com> <2CA261D3-98AD-4DC3-84DF-D44C69A55D5C@inspiredlogic.com> <2E3405F2-5675-410A-AA14-F1C7F98AB6D5@sosmartsoftware.com> Message-ID: <42BBFD27.90104@sover.net> Eric: Excellent contribution! :) Jon Eric Chatonet wrote: > Hi Christian, > > Le 24 juin 05 ? 10:21, Langers Christian a ?crit : > >> Could you, please, give us (newbies/intermediate scriptesr) some >> examples of fast/slow script code ? > > > They would be too many :-) > In fact, the problem is often more an architecture issue than a > simple code issue. > But here is one tiny trivial example among thousands to give you some > clues: > > on CheckList > repeat with i = 1 to the number of lines of fld "List1" > set the itemDel to tab > put item 2 of line i of fld "List1" & cr after fld "List2" > end repeat > end CheckList > > Main errors in the above 4 lines are: > manipulate data directly from a field (a lot of work for the engine) > use the "repeat with i" form slower than the "repeat for each" form > (especially noticeable with long lists) > force a screen redraw at each repetition (that's the must for slowing > down) > set the itemDel unnecessarily at each repetition > > The result with 1000 lines: more than 13 seconds... > > Better code: > > on CheckList > local tList, tLine, tNewList > ----- > put fld "List1" into tList > set the itemDel to tab > repeat for each line tLine in tList > put item 2 of tLine & cr after tNewList > end repeat > put tNewList into fld "List2" > end CheckList > > manipulate data into a variable > use the "repeat for each" form > use one screen redraw only > set the itemDel only when needed > > The result with 1000 lines: less than 20 milliseconds! > 650 times faster... > > Keep in mind that to answer correctly your request, this post should > be a 300 pages book :-) > May be Dan wrote it? > > Best Regards from Paris, > > Eric Chatonet. > ---------------------------------------------------------------- > So Smart Software > > For institutions, companies and associations > Built-to-order applications: management, multimedia, internet, etc. > Windows, Mac OS and Linux... With the French touch > > Free plugins and tutorials on my website > ---------------------------------------------------------------- > Web site http://www.sosmartsoftware.com/ > Email eric.chatonet at sosmartsoftware.com/ > Phone 33 (0)1 43 31 77 62 > Mobile 33 (0)6 20 74 50 86 > ---------------------------------------------------------------- > > _______________________________________________ > use-revolution mailing list > use-revolution at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution > > From heather at runrev.com Fri Jun 24 08:46:28 2005 From: heather at runrev.com (Heather Nagey) Date: Fri, 24 Jun 2005 13:46:28 +0100 Subject: Server upgrade Message-ID: Dear list members, I have some good news: we are finally making the long awaited server upgrade. This should result in better service for everyone all round, but does entail some minor inconvenience during the transfer. We will do everything we can to minimise disruption, but you should expect outages to the website, runrev email addresses, the store, customer support, bugzilla, and the discussion lists over the course of this coming weekend. These will not necessarily occur all at once, and we will restore them in priority order as quickly as possible. There could be up to a 24 hour hiatus in finding the website while our new server address propagates across the internet. Disruption should be confined to the period 10am on Saturday to 10am on Monday (UK time). Thank you for your patience during this essential transfer. If you have an urgent need to contact me over the weekend you can do so on heatherrunrev at spamcop.net. Regards, Heather Nagey, Customer Support Manager Runtime Revolution Ltd www.runrev.com From YourSignup at Yahoo.com Fri Jun 24 08:55:02 2005 From: YourSignup at Yahoo.com (Jim Bufalini) Date: Fri, 24 Jun 2005 02:55:02 -1000 Subject: compileIt for revolution? In-Reply-To: <42BBEDE8.4010109@sover.net> Message-ID: Jon, My point exactly: "a large array of numbers" = "data" So is the photograph you are computing the histogram on. Would either of these change, if you switch languages? Hence, they are external to your language, or "data." I write business application software, so I've never had to compute a histogram and admit I have no clue as to what's involved in that process. However, I have to believe that it is no different than someone saying we have over 200,000 lengthy depositions and need to quickly know any deposition where Jon said to Jim "with all due respect" in the second quarter of the year 2005 while discussing the topic of "compilIT for revolution?". And, we don't want any false positives. If you try to brute force this and depend on your language, OS, and platform for speed of execution, you could be waiting minutes, hours or even days for the result. But, if you know the kind of data manipulation you will be doing in advance, you can parse, index, or otherwise reorganize the source data in such a way as to minimize large data sources or "large arrays." Now, depending on how well you organized your data, whether your language is in pcode or machine compiled, results in only milliseconds of difference. Believe me, over 25 years of programming experience bears this out. Jim -----Original Message----- From: Jon [mailto:jbondy at sover.net] Sent: Friday, June 24, 2005 1:27 AM To: YourSignup at Yahoo.com; How to use Revolution Subject: Re: compileIt for revolution? With all due respect, Jim, if you are trying to do even simple math on a large array of numbers (like computing a histogram of image data), Rev is simply too slow to use. It has nothing to do with data structures: it has to do with slow pCode trying to run tight loops. Jon Jim Bufalini wrote: >Guess I'll add my two cents. > >I'm a newbie to "Rev" (Revolution) but worked over 25 years in "Rev" >(Revelation), another similar, high-typed, extensible, flexible, run as you >program, script language. It's an implementation of Pick on the PC. I was >considered an expert. I also owned a company and employed programmers. > >I too, have heard these discussions hundreds of times, over the years. > >Speed of execution rarely relates to code, or the language, or whether it's >compiled, or in pcode or whatever. It always has to do with data, whether >the data is in arrays, or a database, or whatever object. Any language can >add 2 to 2 instantly, regardless of the syntax. > >You don't get speed by changing languages, or writing lengthy workarounds, >or complaining about your tools. You get speed by designing, in advance, the >layout of your data. > >This requires straight thinking. 1. Know what you are setting out to >accomplish before you type one character of code (what are your client's >(your) goals?). 2. Layout and optimize the data you are going to access >BEFORE writing any code. How are you indexing the data? Is it real indexing >or organization? 3. Now write your code. If you find yourself writing >spaghetti code, STOP, go back to step 1. > >Jim > >-----Original Message----- >From: use-revolution-bounces at lists.runrev.com >[mailto:use-revolution-bounces at lists.runrev.com]On Behalf Of Dan Shafer >Sent: Wednesday, June 22, 2005 12:12 PM >To: How to use Revolution >Subject: Re: compileIt for revolution? > > >This whole discussion has been revealing and intriguing to me. > >My favorite programming language is Smalltalk. But before it was >possible to create UIs for Smalltalk without writing code, I found it >cumbersome. When a product called WindowBuilder came along, I felt >like we'd achieved the ultimate development environment. In many >ways, I still think that. Smalltalk had other problems, >unfortunately, that made it great to code in, difficult to impossible >to deploy. > >Then my second favorite language was Python. The GUI-building tools >for Python are pathetic to non-existent. But the language is powerful >and elegant and extends naturally. If the PythonCard project I was >engaged in before I discovered Revolution had been on a fast track or >complete, odds are I'd have never used Rev. > >Now I favor Transcript and RunRev. Building UIs is all but painless >and 95% of what I want or need to do in creating apps is simple >inside the elegance of Transcript. But Transcript isn't object- >oriented. > >Two aphorisms came to mind as I read this entire thread again today. > >One is, "No good programmer uses only one tool for everything." > >The other is, "It's a poor workman who blames his tools." > > > > >~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ >Dan Shafer, Revolution Consultant and Author >http://www.shafermedia.com >Get my book, "Revolution: Software at the Speed of Thought" > From http://www.shafermedia.com/revolutionbooks.html > > > > >_______________________________________________ >use-revolution mailing list >use-revolution at lists.runrev.com >Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription >preferences: >http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution > > > >_______________________________________________ >use-revolution mailing list >use-revolution at lists.runrev.com >Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: >http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution > > > > From YourSignup at Yahoo.com Fri Jun 24 09:13:56 2005 From: YourSignup at Yahoo.com (Jim Bufalini) Date: Fri, 24 Jun 2005 03:13:56 -1000 Subject: Stack size (not the previous thread) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Hi All, I have a stack with one card in it that has practically nothing in it except some text custom properties. It is now at over 3 MB, according to the OS! I'm using Rev 2.5.1 on WinXP Can someone point me where to look for the stack inflation size? Jim From bill at bluewatermaritime.com Fri Jun 24 08:52:46 2005 From: bill at bluewatermaritime.com (Bill) Date: Fri, 24 Jun 2005 08:52:46 -0400 Subject: Rev won't start in Mac OS 10.3.9 In-Reply-To: Message-ID: The only necessary extensions (and run no others as sometimes one extension looks for another -- also check start-up items folder and keep that empty as well as control panels except chooser). Apple Enet Carbon Lib Classic Rave File Sharing Library InputSprocket Classic LaserWriter 8 Network Setup Extension Open Tronsport ALSM Modules OpenGLEngine OpenGLLibrary OpenGLMemory OpenGlRenderer OpenGLRenderereTA OpenGLUtility Folder Printer Descriptions Folder printer plug-ins Printing Lib Print Monitor PrintToPDF (3rd party) PrintToPDF Link Maker (3rd party) Shared Library Manager Shared Library Manager PPC If you don't print or use Appletalk then you won't need any of these extensions. Also do not use Tiger as it breaks too many things in classic. Even Tiger 10.4.1 which I also tested. If you already installed Tiger it is impossible to "uninstall" unless you have a backup you can use "Carbon Copy Cloner" to re-install from. The real solution is to re-write all your Classic stuff in RunRev and not bother with Classic as I'm sure each new OSX update will subtly break something else. Also keep a back-up copy of the above extensions as OSX will corrupt them and then you will need to copy over the back-up (this happens to me constantly). On 6/24/05 8:23 AM, "Jim Carwardine" wrote: > Hi Bill... I tried running with extensions off, except the ones you > mentioned and I got the message that Revolution couldn't start because the > OTUtilityLib could not be found. At least Rev just didn't quit without a > trace. I did a search on my system folder and couldn't find it anywhere > either. I thought It might have been relegated to the inactive extensions > folder or something. I'm now getting that message whenever I run any OS 9 > app so I may have a bigger problem now... Jim > > on 6/17/05 8:15 AM, Bill wrote: > >> Have you tried it with all extensions off yet? I run classic with only the >> network and printing extensions and have no problem with color picker not >> being there. >> >> >> On 6/16/05 8:50 PM, "Jim Carwardine" >> wrote: >> >>> Hi Jacque... Looks like the color picker is in the right place. I got this >>> report from the extensions manager for missing extensions... >>> >>> Name Size Version Type Creator >>> ------------------------------------------------------------------ >>> >>> Extensions >>> ------------------------------------------------------------------ >>> ------------------------------------------------------------------ >>> Classic RAVE - - shlb rvgl >>> >>> >>> System Folder >>> ------------------------------------------------------------------ >>> ------------------------------------------------------------------ >>> Classic Support UI - - bbox csui >>> >>> >>> Startup Items >>> >>> Anything look familiar there? Jim >>> >>> on 6/16/05 1:01 AM, J. Landman Gay wrote: >>> >>>> On 6/15/05 8:15 PM, Jim Carwardine wrote: >>>> >>>>> Hi Folks... I moved to a Titanium G4 Powerbook 500 MHz running Tiger on >>>>> which I was running Rev in Classic mode. Everything ran fine. I had a >>>>> problem with the display and had to switch to a G4 Powerbook 1 GHz running >>>>> OS 10.3.9 - Panther, I think - and I can't get the IDE to start or run any >>>>> standalone apps in Classic. I had been using Rev for Mac OS 9 on a G3 >>>>> Powerbook under OS 9.2. >>>>> >>>>> I get no error or freeze or anything. It seems to start up, I see the app >>>>> name in the right of the menu bar, then it just disappears with no trace. >>>>> >>>>> Anyone know what's happening? Anyone have a 15 inch G4 Titanium Powerbook >>>>> display they don't want? ... Jim >>>> >>>> This happened to me when I had moved the Color Picker out of the OS 9 >>>> extensions folder. For some reason, the engine checked for it and quit >>>> if it wasn't available. Sometimes OS X moves a bunch of extensions out >>>> of the OS 9 extension folder, so check to see if that one is missing. >>>> There are a couple of others that are required too, but I can't remember >>>> which ones they are. >> >> | | | >> )_) )_) )_) >> )___))___))___)\ >> )____)____)_____)\\ >> _____|____|____|____\\\__ >> -------\ /--------- http://www.bluewatermaritime.com >> ^^^^^ ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ >> ^^^^ ^^^^ ^^^ ^^ >> ^^^^ ^^^ >> >> 24 hour cell: (787) 378-6190 >> fax: (787) 809-8426 >> >> Blue Water Maritime >> P.O. Box 91 >> Puerto Real, PR 00740 >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> use-revolution mailing list >> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription >> preferences: >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution | | | )_) )_) )_) )___))___))___)\ )____)____)_____)\\ _____|____|____|____\\\__ -------\ /--------- http://www.bluewatermaritime.com ^^^^^ ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ ^^^^ ^^^^ ^^^ ^^ ^^^^ ^^^ 24 hour cell: (787) 378-6190 fax: (787) 809-8426 Blue Water Maritime P.O. Box 91 Puerto Real, PR 00740 From sbonham at georgiasouthern.edu Fri Jun 24 09:25:01 2005 From: sbonham at georgiasouthern.edu (Steve Bonham) Date: Fri, 24 Jun 2005 09:25:01 -0400 Subject: is within ... polygon shape? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Can you use "is within" statements to evaluate if an object is within the confines of an irregular shape?? If so - point me in the right direction? Thx, S -- -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Steve Bonham Director, Faculty Technology Development Laboratory Center for Excellence in Teaching - Georgia Southern University Statesboro, GA 30460-8143 -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From mikeythek at gmail.com Fri Jun 24 09:26:02 2005 From: mikeythek at gmail.com (Mikey) Date: Fri, 24 Jun 2005 09:26:02 -0400 Subject: Printing Scripts PAINFUL In-Reply-To: <87.2a2d2356.2fec9143@aol.com> References: <87.2a2d2356.2fec9143@aol.com> Message-ID: <9b408d8e050624062644e7d93b@mail.gmail.com> Do we have a BZ number? > Also vote to fix this bug! -- http://taoof4d.blogspot.com http://4dwishlist.blogspot.com On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth On the second day, God created the oceans. On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours, and did a little diving. And God said, "This is good." From Kresten.Bjerg at psy.ku.dk Fri Jun 24 09:25:56 2005 From: Kresten.Bjerg at psy.ku.dk (Kresten Bjerg) Date: Fri, 24 Jun 2005 15:25:56 +0200 Subject: Control of ask-dialogs position in Windows standalone Message-ID: I am working with large cards, 3x3 screens, and have 5 ask-dialogs, all called from primary (upper left) screenwindow. In mac versions these dialogs appear as they are meant to, centered in that primary window. But in a Windows standalone the dialogs appear - out of sight - in the next (middle) screen, thus not answerable-(except blindly), and blocking all activity. Is there a way to fix the position of such ask-dialogues to a specified screen-position? Kresten Bjerg From bnz2 at cdc.gov Fri Jun 24 09:37:00 2005 From: bnz2 at cdc.gov (Lynch, Jonathan) Date: Fri, 24 Jun 2005 09:37:00 -0400 Subject: Choosing printer from within a script Message-ID: <64878EF567131D4596246171F75FD4A97445D7@m-epo-1.epo.cdc.gov> Well, actually, I would also need to select the current printer. Do you think that might set off antivirus software? I am pretty sure I could get a list of printers just by getting the files in the printer folder - but choosing a current printer, so that the subsequent print command prints on that printer, is a different matter. I really wish that was an inherent part of transcript. -----Original Message----- From: use-revolution-bounces at lists.runrev.com [mailto:use-revolution-bounces at lists.runrev.com] On Behalf Of Ken Ray Sent: Thursday, June 23, 2005 9:32 PM To: Use Revolution List Subject: Re: Choosing printer from within a script On 6/23/05 1:23 PM, "Lynch, Jonathan" wrote: > Thanks Ken! > > What versions of windows allow you to use Vbscript in this way? I see > many uses for such a thing. All of 'em... (actually I think you need to have at least Internet Explorer 4.x or later in Windows 95). However different versions of the OS will support different sets of functionality depending on what you're asking for. Keep in mind that certain VBS actions may trigger anti-virus detectors (generally anything that manipulates files like the FileSystem object). But if you're just "getting" info, you should be safe. Ken Ray Sons of Thunder Software Web site: http://www.sonsothunder.com/ Email: kray at sonsothunder.com _______________________________________________ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution at lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution From gcanyon at inspiredlogic.com Fri Jun 24 09:48:26 2005 From: gcanyon at inspiredlogic.com (Geoff Canyon) Date: Fri, 24 Jun 2005 06:48:26 -0700 Subject: compileIt for Revolution? In-Reply-To: <20050624091935.74425.qmail@web60522.mail.yahoo.com> References: <20050624091935.74425.qmail@web60522.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <96FE49F1-C17C-446B-ADFD-2028D5644B5F@inspiredlogic.com> On Jun 24, 2005, at 2:19 AM, Eric Engle wrote: > on eq @x,y -- note x is by reference > put y into x > end eq > > You can use that in the order you asked for like this: > > on mouseUp > put 0 into b > eq b,7 > put b -- puts 7 > eq b,b+3 > put b -- puts 10 > end mouseUp > > Does Transcript allow pointers?!? > If so, big news to me (new in latest engine or something?!?) > I tested your handler without the pointer symbol (@) and it seemed > to work. > The @ sign before the variable name implements pass by reference. Without it the two puts would both put 0, because the value of b is unaffected by the calls. With the @ sign, the first time b is 7, the second it is 10. Granted it's not infix, but it is in the order requested: target,value. From sbonham at georgiasouthern.edu Fri Jun 24 09:53:00 2005 From: sbonham at georgiasouthern.edu (Steve Bonham) Date: Fri, 24 Jun 2005 09:53:00 -0400 Subject: is within ... polygon shape? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Answered my own question- I found the "intersect" function and it works (see below) if intersect(graphic "ball", graphic "sand1") then put "in the bunker" into YourLie end if HOWEVER... There are many, many objects that the ball object may intersect with... Is it possible to use a "wildcard" character in Rev? For instance, there are 3 sand bunkers (sand1, sand2, sand3) and 60+ trees (tree1, tree2, etc) Can I use something along the lines of : if intersect(graphic "ball", graphic "tree" & *) then put "in the bunker" into YourLie end if I'm supposing this is not possible (but it sounds like a logical need)-- but maybe there is another way to accomplish this? Thx S >Can you use "is within" statements to evaluate if an object is >within the confines of an irregular shape?? > >If so - point me in the right direction? > >Thx, >S >-- > > >-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- >Steve Bonham >Director, Faculty Technology Development Laboratory >Center for Excellence in Teaching - Georgia Southern University >Statesboro, GA 30460-8143 >-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- >_______________________________________________ >use-revolution mailing list >use-revolution at lists.runrev.com >Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >subscription preferences: >http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution -- -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Steve Bonham Director, Faculty Technology Development Laboratory Center for Excellence in Teaching - Georgia Southern University Statesboro, GA 30460-8143 -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From alex at tweedly.net Fri Jun 24 09:53:09 2005 From: alex at tweedly.net (Alex Tweedly) Date: Fri, 24 Jun 2005 14:53:09 +0100 Subject: Interfacing to externals. [offshoot from CompileIt for Revolution] Message-ID: <42BC1045.7060006@tweedly.net> Although there may be changes possible that could reduce the need for externals, I believe there will always be good reasons to use externals. I think the current mechanism used by Rev to do interface to externals is missing an opportunity, and indeed is inelegant (or unaesthetic), because it forces the interface - and hence the calling Transcript code - to be different from what it would be if the function/handler were internal (pure Transcript) rather than external. [If I've missed something, and there is already such a mechanism, please tell me. I know you can retrieve such binary data from within the external, but as far as I can tell you cannot *pass* it to an external.] The mechanism used passes null-terminated strings (an array of them, for the parameters) and returns a null-terminated string (if it's a function). This precludes passing, or returning, binary data. So, in pure Transcript, I would create a function as follows: function manipulate pImageData -- do something to the image data, creating a new image in newImageData return newImageData end manipulate and call it as put the imagedata of img "mine" into myImage put manipulate(myImage) into newImage set the imagedata of img "destination" to newImage However, if "manipulate" was to be, or become, an external then you cannot provide that interface. You need to change it such the calling side looks like put the imagedata of img "mine" into myImage manipulate "myImage", "newImage" set the imagedata of img "destination" to newImage (or a variant of that. You could keep it as a function - but since its result can't be the binary data, there's no reason to do so). Alternatively, I might be willing to overwrite the original data (and save the time for replicating it), and then do on manipulateInPlace @pImageData - change it end manipulateInPlace Then it would be called as manipulateInPlace myImage and again if it had to be an external, the interface would need to be manipulateInPlace "myImage" You can't pass binary data because the parameters appear on the C side as char *args[] (and similarly the return value is a null-terminated string). If that could be changed to pass an array of MCStrings (i.e. MCstring[]) then, because they'd be length-specified, there would be no problem with binary data. Similar change for the return value from a function. Even if this does seem like a desirable change, is it feasible ? I think it should be. Obviously it wouldn't be possible to "just change" because it would be incompatible. But the Xtable[] used to define the entry points already contains a "type", currently one of XFUNCTION, XCOMMAND or XNONE. The set of types could be extended to include, say, XBINFUNCTION and XBINCOMMAND which determine that the paramters and, where applicable, return value are MCStrings rather than char *s. Therefore the engine would know which parameter passing mechanism is in use, and behave accordingly. The primary benefit is that it alows the interface to be more "Transcript-like" - no (regular) pure-Transcript function would expect to be passed a string containing the name of a variable in preference to passing the variable itself. The secondary benefit is that you could initially write a Transcript version of the function, and later replace it by an external versino of the same function without revisiting every place it is used to change the calling convention. There is a tertiary benefit of minor speed improvement from avoiding the callback to retrieve (and set) binary parameters (and results), but I don't think that's significant, and it would not be a reason to suggest this change. I don't see any major drawback. There is a minor drawback, in that it is an additional mechanism to be learnt by anyone starting to write externals, and to be considered each time you design an external's interface. And there is a very minor drawback in that it is extra work to develop, and code to maintain, in the engine's external-calling code - but I would hope that it shouldn't be much extra code, and shouldn't be "fragile", and so not a noticable maintenance cost. -- Alex Tweedly http://www.tweedly.net -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.323 / Virus Database: 267.8.0/27 - Release Date: 23/06/2005 From see3d at writeme.com Fri Jun 24 10:06:03 2005 From: see3d at writeme.com (Dennis Brown) Date: Fri, 24 Jun 2005 10:06:03 -0400 Subject: compileIt for revolution? In-Reply-To: <3ADAE4A7-BDBA-47AA-84BA-EF3E007C4A61@danshafer.com> References: <20050622170404.76336.qmail@web51107.mail.yahoo.com> <5D2B36D7-6FB4-40B6-8BE5-3D5BE47F9C22@danshafer.com> <6.2.1.2.1.20050623062308.01f295b0@pop3.pon.net> <0450A748-8A83-444C-B390-7605A0952312@writeme.com> <3ADAE4A7-BDBA-47AA-84BA-EF3E007C4A61@danshafer.com> Message-ID: <48B8B222-0B6C-4877-A065-06D2C4945122@writeme.com> Dan, Perhaps we are in perfect agreement, just expressing it differently... I could not argue with the way you have expressed it here. Dennis On Jun 24, 2005, at 1:09 AM, Dan Shafer wrote: > Dennis..... > > You make some excellent points. I don't think that *my* programming > needs should drive the direction of the language or the tool. And > I'm certainly not opposed even to *major* extensions and > enhancements of the language. My only real sticking point is that > if and when new things are added, they be done in a way that is as > cross-platform as possible, as innocuous to coders for other > platforms as feasible, and implemented in a way that keeps the > consistent flavor and style of xTalk, including its verbosity. > > Verbosity is a virtue in my mind. Not only does it make code more > readable and therefore maintainable, but I can't tell you how many > times I've just sort of guessed at what command or property change > might have some desired effect only to have it behave exactly as > predicted. Only with xTalk and Python have I had that kind of > experience. And I love it! From gbojsza at gmail.com Fri Jun 24 10:08:43 2005 From: gbojsza at gmail.com (Glen Bojsza) Date: Fri, 24 Jun 2005 10:08:43 -0400 Subject: Any experience with Expect Message-ID: <3d8af415050624070873b54a40@mail.gmail.com> Hello all, I was talking to a friend the other day and discovered that he does a lot of hardware testing (regression testing, feature testing etc). Since this is a tedious task most people have been using a program called Expect. Homepage is http://expect.nist.gov/ Tcl/Tk has been used a the user interface. 1. I was wondering if Rev would not be a good alternative to this in native form? 2. Or would it be feasible to make Expect a Rev external ? thanks, From jbv.silences at Club-Internet.fr Fri Jun 24 10:22:49 2005 From: jbv.silences at Club-Internet.fr (jbv) Date: Fri, 24 Jun 2005 16:22:49 +0200 Subject: Interfacing to externals. [offshoot from CompileIt for Revolution] References: <42BC1045.7060006@tweedly.net> Message-ID: <42BC1730.B96CC5E2@Club-Internet.fr> Alex Tweedly a *crit : > > I think the current mechanism used by Rev to do interface to externals > is missing an opportunity, and indeed is inelegant (or unaesthetic), > because it forces the interface - and hence the calling Transcript code > - to be different from what it would be if the function/handler were > internal (pure Transcript) rather than external. > yep, and that's one of the main reason why I dropped the idea of building a general purpose external to interface Rev with openGL 2 years ago... JB From eric.chatonet at sosmartsoftware.com Fri Jun 24 10:15:47 2005 From: eric.chatonet at sosmartsoftware.com (Eric Chatonet) Date: Fri, 24 Jun 2005 16:15:47 +0200 Subject: is within ... polygon shape? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hi Steve, Should be fine indeed... AFAIK yo have to run a loop. I don't know how is your interface but you could have some invisible graphics to test a larger zone before a long loop. A kind of graphic's indexation... to speed up the process if needed :-) Le 24 juin 05 ? 15:53, Steve Bonham a ?crit : > There are many, many objects that the ball object may intersect > with... > Is it possible to use a "wildcard" character in Rev? > > For instance, there are 3 sand bunkers (sand1, sand2, sand3) and 60 > + trees (tree1, tree2, etc) > > Can I use something along the lines of : > > if intersect(graphic "ball", graphic "tree" & *) then > put "in the bunker" into YourLie > end if > > I'm supposing this is not possible (but it sounds like a logical > need)-- but maybe there is another way to accomplish this? Best Regards from Paris, Eric Chatonet. ---------------------------------------------------------------- So Smart Software For institutions, companies and associations Built-to-order applications: management, multimedia, internet, etc. Windows, Mac OS and Linux... With the French touch Free plugins and tutorials on my website ---------------------------------------------------------------- Web site http://www.sosmartsoftware.com/ Email eric.chatonet at sosmartsoftware.com/ Phone 33 (0)1 43 31 77 62 Mobile 33 (0)6 20 74 50 86 ---------------------------------------------------------------- From see3d at writeme.com Fri Jun 24 10:23:05 2005 From: see3d at writeme.com (Dennis Brown) Date: Fri, 24 Jun 2005 10:23:05 -0400 Subject: the := operator (affectation In-Reply-To: <3FF1186D-CDFA-443D-88BD-18A2FB93D85E@consensustech.com> References: <1119521638.42ba8b6699019@staffmail.ed.ac.uk> <42BAE906.6050502@fourthworld.com> <02BAB77F-922D-4777-AF6B-B218390DAFE5@writeme.com> <0c803bc64d5aa6c05097f3715c301ea2@swcp.com> <16635F34-8111-4431-BF62-CD097969D938@writeme.com> <3FF1186D-CDFA-443D-88BD-18A2FB93D85E@consensustech.com> Message-ID: <83CC6FF8-3FA7-44FB-AB13-9EDE208D2A79@writeme.com> Jim, On Jun 23, 2005, at 10:40 PM, Jim MacConnell wrote: > Dennis, > > First.. thank you for your intelligent reply to my: > >>> okay.. back into my hole... >>> >> Yes, Please stay there. >> > It is good to so easily learn so much of the people we correspond > with. I'm not surprised that I touched a nerve but I am surprised > at the scream ... sorry ;-{ ) My apologies, I was a bit over the top yesterday in my reply. Yes, I want to make intelligent discussion not hyperbole. We all have our bad days. I felt like I was being ambushed, and that you were going to retreat out of the conversation. > Second.. > >> var := x >> var == x >> var = x --this is a bit tougher >> var isAssignedToTheValueOf x >> var gets x >> >> are all the same thing! >> > Well.. they are close. They all may have the same result at a > machine code level... (although I believe var == x resolves to TRUE > if var and x are the same (false otherwise).. and usually the same > for (var = x) if it is parentheses? ) Oops, but at least you knew what I meant . APL left arrow was supposed to go into that spot. > but the discussion is not about values of variables or what the > machine does... or at least my contribution wasn't. It seemed to > me, the discussion was about consistency in a language and the > inclusion of semantically different operators in addition to those > that are inherently ones. Seems like you didn't understand rather > than me. I did understand you, and I can accept that a var gets x is not xTalk as long as var := x is also not xTalk. That was my point. The gets "term" was my suggestion as being more xTalk than := and could be related semantically to the get command which is also left assignment. > Third... > >> You say one is a good construct and another is an inconsistent >> construct! That makes your argument inconsistent. >> > Maybe reread my post? I don't see in my message where I said any of > those was a good construct for an xTalk. I said "put x into var" > was a good construct for an xTalk language because it is consistent > with the concept of telling the object what "It" should do as > opposed to a variable being assigned something... It may seem a > trivial point but it is at the root of the discussion... " I personally have nothing against ":=" and "=" for variable assignment" --I took to be your acceptance as good. > Or perhaps the point is that if all of the above are the same but > are non-xTalk friendly conceptually, is it appropriate for us to > worry about whether Transcript includes any of them.... Of course > you left the "put x into var" out of the list even though I would > assume that from your point of view it is also the same thing.... > So why did you leave it off? it appears to be the only one that is > 100% consistent with the xTalk construct..... Could it be you agree > with me at some level? Put x into var is a right assignment command. Not the same thing. The whole thread is about a left assignment operator and the desire to conceptually have a left assignment as an extension of the language. And, yes, I do agree with you at some level, just not the way you argued for your point. I tend to take an argument to the extreme opposite position in order to discover the core issue. It makes everyone (including myself) think more clearly. I also test my code with values of "-infinity", -1,0,1,"+infinity",empty. I find the flaws faster with the edge conditions. > Finally... > >> You just don't get it ;-) >> I can't say I can get it into your head, though I can put it into >> your head. >> Perhaps Jim gets it now. > ... telling someone their argument is inconsistent or that they > don't get it when it appears you maybe didn't actually listen to/ > read what they were saying does little to build your credibility. > Following the same with a condescending cute smiley does not help. > This list is a great place for constructive discussion and it > should stay that way. Keep your personal comments to yourself.. and > I'll be lighter on the " ...some renegade variable is off filling > itself with data..." comments. I guess I was a bit too obscure. The ;-) was the clue that the statements were an example of get, put, gets syntax and a lighthearted jab not meant to be taken too literally: You just don't "get it", because "get it" is a no op. I can't say I can "get it into" your head, because "get...into" is bad syntax mixing left and right assignment, showing the difference between get and put. Perhaps Jim gets it now... new syntax of left assignment that is English like syntax. However, from the various replies to my gets suggestion, I don't think gets is the best choice for a left assignment for Transcript because of the lack of imperative. In BASIC the LET was the imperative to LET var=x. The LET was redundant from a parsing point of view, so eventually fell away. So in Transcript left assignment might be better stated using the familiar syntax: set var to x The get command becomes the shortcut equivelent of: set it to So you see Jim, now I get it! I have always been bothered by the left right reversal between setting parameters (just another type of container), and putting into variables. I have mistyped setting the parameter many times using the form: put x into the parameter of y. The syntax is not ambiguous as far as I can tell. Perhaps both set and put syntaxes should be regularized to allow either, and relegate parameters to the ordinary family of containers. At least allow the setting of variables even if putting into parameters is kept exclusive. Comments? Dennis From sbonham at georgiasouthern.edu Fri Jun 24 10:30:36 2005 From: sbonham at georgiasouthern.edu (Steve Bonham) Date: Fri, 24 Jun 2005 10:30:36 -0400 Subject: is within ... polygon shape? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: hmmmm- Intersect doesn't work after all. It appears that one object will intersect with another irregular object's rect and NOT the objects true shape (polygon points). See illustration... at: http://academics.georgiasouthern.edu/cet/SB/ball_fairway.jpg Is there a way to get Rev to: 1. evaluate IF the loc of an object is within the shape (defined by a series of coordinates) of an object? OR 2. evaluate IF the loc of an object intersects with the shape (defined by a series of coordinates) of an object? Thx, S >Answered my own question- I found the "intersect" function and it >works (see below) > >if intersect(graphic "ball", graphic "sand1") then > put "in the bunker" into YourLie > end if > >HOWEVER... > >There are many, many objects that the ball object may intersect with... >Is it possible to use a "wildcard" character in Rev? > >For instance, there are 3 sand bunkers (sand1, sand2, sand3) and 60+ >trees (tree1, tree2, etc) > >Can I use something along the lines of : > >if intersect(graphic "ball", graphic "tree" & *) then > put "in the bunker" into YourLie > end if > >I'm supposing this is not possible (but it sounds like a logical >need)-- but maybe there is another way to accomplish this? > >Thx >S -- -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Steve Bonham Director, Faculty Technology Development Laboratory Center for Excellence in Teaching - Georgia Southern University Statesboro, GA 30460-8143 -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From eric.chatonet at sosmartsoftware.com Fri Jun 24 10:49:04 2005 From: eric.chatonet at sosmartsoftware.com (Eric Chatonet) Date: Fri, 24 Jun 2005 16:49:04 +0200 Subject: is within ... polygon shape? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Re Steve, Another funny approach: function WhichObject pLoc,pObj local tCurLoc, tColor ----- put the screenMouseLoc into tCurLoc lock screen hide pObj set the screenMouseloc to globalLoc(pLoc) put the mouseColor into tColor set the screenMouseloc to tCurLoc show pObj unlock screen return WhatKindOfObject(tColor) end WhichObject WhatKindOfObject function would return the right object according to the passed color :-) Not tested... but should work. Ah, there are so many ways to do a job with Rev! Le 24 juin 05 ? 16:30, Steve Bonham a ?crit : > Intersect doesn't work after all. It appears that one object will > intersect with another irregular object's rect and NOT the objects > true shape (polygon points). > See illustration... at: > http://academics.georgiasouthern.edu/cet/SB/ball_fairway.jpg > > Is there a way to get Rev to: > 1. evaluate IF the loc of an object is within the shape (defined by > a series of coordinates) of an object? > > OR > 2. evaluate IF the loc of an object intersects with the shape > (defined by a series of coordinates) of an object? Best Regards from Paris, Eric Chatonet. ---------------------------------------------------------------- So Smart Software For institutions, companies and associations Built-to-order applications: management, multimedia, internet, etc. Windows, Mac OS and Linux... With the French touch Free plugins and tutorials on my website ---------------------------------------------------------------- Web site http://www.sosmartsoftware.com/ Email eric.chatonet at sosmartsoftware.com/ Phone 33 (0)1 43 31 77 62 Mobile 33 (0)6 20 74 50 86 ---------------------------------------------------------------- From scott at tactilemedia.com Fri Jun 24 10:53:22 2005 From: scott at tactilemedia.com (Scott Rossi) Date: Fri, 24 Jun 2005 07:53:22 -0700 Subject: is within ... polygon shape? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Recently, Steve Bonham wrote: > Intersect doesn't work after all. It appears that one object will > intersect with another irregular object's rect and NOT the objects > true shape (polygon points). > See illustration... at: > http://academics.georgiasouthern.edu/cet/SB/ball_fairway.jpg > > Is there a way to get Rev to: > 1. evaluate IF the loc of an object is within the shape (defined by a > series of coordinates) of an object? > > OR > 2. evaluate IF the loc of an object intersects with the shape > (defined by a series of coordinates) of an object? I believe some folks on the list have written collision detection routines that can detect intersection in several situations. I think Malte Brill might know something about this. That being said, collision detection on irregular shapes can work by using images that have a transparent background and point references. Using the within() function it is possible to accurately detect whether a point falls within the image since Rev will evaluate a point falling within the transparent region of the image as false. get within(img 1,myPoint) Regards, Scott Rossi Creative Director Tactile Media, Multimedia & Design ----- E: scott at tactilemedia.com W: http://www.tactilemedia.com From sbonham at georgiasouthern.edu Fri Jun 24 10:55:21 2005 From: sbonham at georgiasouthern.edu (Steve Bonham) Date: Fri, 24 Jun 2005 10:55:21 -0400 Subject: is within ... polygon shape? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Eric, Wow! Now THAT is an ingenious approach!!! :-) and it might be just the solution needed. I'll give it a shot. S >Re Steve, > >Another funny approach: > >function WhichObject pLoc,pObj > local tCurLoc, tColor > ----- > put the screenMouseLoc into tCurLoc > lock screen > hide pObj > set the screenMouseloc to globalLoc(pLoc) > put the mouseColor into tColor > set the screenMouseloc to tCurLoc > show pObj > unlock screen > return WhatKindOfObject(tColor) >end WhichObject > >WhatKindOfObject function would return the right object according to >the passed color :-) >Not tested... but should work. >Ah, there are so many ways to do a job with Rev! -- -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Steve Bonham Director, Faculty Technology Development Laboratory Center for Excellence in Teaching - Georgia Southern University Statesboro, GA 30460-8143 -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From b.xavier at internet.lu Fri Jun 24 10:57:42 2005 From: b.xavier at internet.lu (MisterX) Date: Fri, 24 Jun 2005 16:57:42 +0200 Subject: is within ... polygon shape? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20050624141639.45D06930125@mail.runrev.com> you need a real algotithm. The "within" function only works on rects only AFAIK. But the graphic will only detect a mouseup if you click on its graphic, not the rect - so somehow, it's "calculated"... There's plenty of them algorithms on the net. search "region intersection and/or polygon intersection" fun stuff... im sure there's a Gauss or old greek technique for this! or... the xtalk way you can simulate a click at any point and if the target is the card or not the graphic, then you got your intersection logic running. i'll see what i can dig up tonite... interesting problem: is point in *space(f) of f(i) where i is any graphic def. oh and, new bugz 2934 found! Duh! Then people i dont check on my bugs but hey, i dont charge as much ;) cheers Xavier > -----Original Message----- > From: use-revolution-bounces at lists.runrev.com > [mailto:use-revolution-bounces at lists.runrev.com] On Behalf Of > Steve Bonham > Sent: Friday, June 24, 2005 16:31 > To: How to use Revolution > Subject: Re: is within ... polygon shape? > > hmmmm- > > Intersect doesn't work after all. It appears that one object > will intersect with another irregular object's rect and NOT > the objects true shape (polygon points). > See illustration... at: > http://academics.georgiasouthern.edu/cet/SB/ball_fairway.jpg > > Is there a way to get Rev to: > 1. evaluate IF the loc of an object is within the shape > (defined by a series of coordinates) of an object? > > OR > 2. evaluate IF the loc of an object intersects with the shape > (defined by a series of coordinates) of an object? > > Thx, > S > > > > >Answered my own question- I found the "intersect" function > and it works > >(see below) > > > >if intersect(graphic "ball", graphic "sand1") then > > put "in the bunker" into YourLie > > end if > > > >HOWEVER... > > > >There are many, many objects that the ball object may > intersect with... > >Is it possible to use a "wildcard" character in Rev? > > > >For instance, there are 3 sand bunkers (sand1, sand2, sand3) and 60+ > >trees (tree1, tree2, etc) > > > >Can I use something along the lines of : > > > >if intersect(graphic "ball", graphic "tree" & *) then > > put "in the bunker" into YourLie > > end if > > > >I'm supposing this is not possible (but it sounds like a logical > >need)-- but maybe there is another way to accomplish this? > > > >Thx > >S > > -- > > > -------------------------------------------------------------- > ------------------------------------ > Steve Bonham > Director, Faculty Technology Development Laboratory Center > for Excellence in Teaching - Georgia Southern University > Statesboro, GA 30460-8143 > -------------------------------------------------------------- > ------------------------------------ > _______________________________________________ > use-revolution mailing list > use-revolution at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage > your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution > From b.xavier at internet.lu Fri Jun 24 10:57:42 2005 From: b.xavier at internet.lu (MisterX) Date: Fri, 24 Jun 2005 16:57:42 +0200 Subject: Interfacing to externals. [offshoot from CompileIt forRevolution] In-Reply-To: <42BC1730.B96CC5E2@Club-Internet.fr> Message-ID: <20050624141639.C2C7093012C@mail.runrev.com> It's only in-elegant as you name your external handlers or functions... The setup is horrible but not impossible if not already documented somewhere... I know i managed at least a year ago! cheers Xavier > -----Original Message----- > From: use-revolution-bounces at lists.runrev.com > [mailto:use-revolution-bounces at lists.runrev.com] On Behalf Of jbv > Sent: Friday, June 24, 2005 16:23 > To: How to use Revolution > Subject: Re: Interfacing to externals. [offshoot from > CompileIt forRevolution] > > > > Alex Tweedly a *crit : > > > > > I think the current mechanism used by Rev to do interface > to externals > > is missing an opportunity, and indeed is inelegant (or > unaesthetic), > > because it forces the interface - and hence the calling Transcript > > code > > - to be different from what it would be if the > function/handler were > > internal (pure Transcript) rather than external. > > > > yep, and that's one of the main reason why I dropped the idea > of building a general purpose external to interface Rev with > openGL 2 years ago... > > JB > > _______________________________________________ > use-revolution mailing list > use-revolution at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage > your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution > From pevensen at siboneylg.com Fri Jun 24 11:02:06 2005 From: pevensen at siboneylg.com (Peter T. Evensen) Date: Fri, 24 Jun 2005 10:02:06 -0500 Subject: revSetStackFileProfile Message-ID: <6.2.1.2.2.20050624095855.06b5b040@exchange.slg.com> revSetStackFileProfile only seems to work on open substacks, is this correct? I have a mainstack that calls revSetStackFileProfile and when I open my main substack, the profiles aren't set. I have to do another revSetStackFileProfile in the openstack hander of the substack. Peter T. Evensen http://www.PetersRoadToHealth.com 24-hour recorded info hotline: 1-800-624-7671 From ro at runrev.com Fri Jun 24 11:04:13 2005 From: ro at runrev.com (Ro Nagey) Date: Fri, 24 Jun 2005 16:04:13 +0100 Subject: Contest Results Tonight! Message-ID: <935FF50B-86A5-40BB-A392-34452D36A6ED@runrev.com> Well, depending on where you on in the world: tonight, this afternoon, this morning, or tomorrow morning! ;) Seriously, though, a quick reminder that the first winners of the ChatRev coding contest are tonight! To celebrate, we will announce the winners of the contest and discuss the entries, on a world-wide ChatRev session, next Friday, 24th June, at 21.30 CET (Note: See below for worldwide times). The winners will be invited to talk about their stack and to explain the approach to their solution. The whole event will last one hour at most. The three best stacks of this challenge will be made available on the ChatRev Coding Contest website, shortly after the event. The "Advanced Challenge" continues until 11th July and the "Impossible Challenge" until 8th August. Make sure to submit your solutions to each of the challenges in time, to win one of the wonderful prizes. To learn more about the Coding Contest, go to: If you need to get a copy of ChatRev, go to: We look forward to everyone joining us on ChatRev tonight! Warmest regards, The CCC judges, Bj?rnke Wouter Chipp Mark Ro Time Chart: CET 21.30 BST 20:30 EST 15:30 PST 12:30 -- http://contest.wecode.org Now running: the first ChatRev coding contest! sponsors: Altuit Andre Garzia Fourth World Karl Becker Runtime Revolution TidBITS in cooperation with eHUG Ro Nagey ~ Evangelist ~ ro at runrev.com Runtime Revolution - User-Centric Development Tools ~ http:// www.runrev.com/ From bnz2 at cdc.gov Fri Jun 24 11:04:29 2005 From: bnz2 at cdc.gov (Lynch, Jonathan) Date: Fri, 24 Jun 2005 11:04:29 -0400 Subject: is within ... polygon shape? Message-ID: <64878EF567131D4596246171F75FD4A97445D9@m-epo-1.epo.cdc.gov> Perhaps I am confused... But if you are going to hide the top object, then put the mouse over the polygon - then all you would need to do is use the mousecontrol function. If the mouseControl is the polygon in question - then you've got it. However, this does not tell you if any point of the top object is over the polygon. This would only tell you if the point at which you place the mouse is over the polygon. If pLoc is in the middle of the top object, but only the edge of the top object is over the polygon, then this test would miss the overlap. -----Original Message----- From: use-revolution-bounces at lists.runrev.com [mailto:use-revolution-bounces at lists.runrev.com] On Behalf Of Steve Bonham Sent: Friday, June 24, 2005 10:55 AM To: How to use Revolution Subject: Re: is within ... polygon shape? Eric, Wow! Now THAT is an ingenious approach!!! :-) and it might be just the solution needed. I'll give it a shot. S >Re Steve, > >Another funny approach: > >function WhichObject pLoc,pObj > local tCurLoc, tColor > ----- > put the screenMouseLoc into tCurLoc > lock screen > hide pObj > set the screenMouseloc to globalLoc(pLoc) > put the mouseColor into tColor > set the screenMouseloc to tCurLoc > show pObj > unlock screen > return WhatKindOfObject(tColor) >end WhichObject > >WhatKindOfObject function would return the right object according to >the passed color :-) >Not tested... but should work. >Ah, there are so many ways to do a job with Rev! -- ------------------------------------------------------------------------ -------------------------- Steve Bonham Director, Faculty Technology Development Laboratory Center for Excellence in Teaching - Georgia Southern University Statesboro, GA 30460-8143 ------------------------------------------------------------------------ -------------------------- _______________________________________________ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution at lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution From b.xavier at internet.lu Fri Jun 24 11:08:08 2005 From: b.xavier at internet.lu (MisterX) Date: Fri, 24 Jun 2005 17:08:08 +0200 Subject: is within ... polygon shape? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20050624142636.A520993012C@mail.runrev.com> if it's all white, then what? ;) nothing beats mathematics ;) cheers 1/X > -----Original Message----- > From: use-revolution-bounces at lists.runrev.com > [mailto:use-revolution-bounces at lists.runrev.com] On Behalf Of > Steve Bonham > Sent: Friday, June 24, 2005 16:55 > To: How to use Revolution > Subject: Re: is within ... polygon shape? > > Eric, > > Wow! > Now THAT is an ingenious approach!!! :-) and it might be just > the solution needed. > > I'll give it a shot. > > S > > > > >Re Steve, > > > >Another funny approach: > > > >function WhichObject pLoc,pObj > > local tCurLoc, tColor > > ----- > > put the screenMouseLoc into tCurLoc > > lock screen > > hide pObj > > set the screenMouseloc to globalLoc(pLoc) > > put the mouseColor into tColor > > set the screenMouseloc to tCurLoc > > show pObj > > unlock screen > > return WhatKindOfObject(tColor) > >end WhichObject > > > >WhatKindOfObject function would return the right object according to > >the passed color :-) Not tested... but should work. > >Ah, there are so many ways to do a job with Rev! > > -- > > > -------------------------------------------------------------- > ------------------------------------ > Steve Bonham > Director, Faculty Technology Development Laboratory Center > for Excellence in Teaching - Georgia Southern University > Statesboro, GA 30460-8143 > -------------------------------------------------------------- > ------------------------------------ > _______________________________________________ > use-revolution mailing list > use-revolution at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage > your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution > From eric.chatonet at sosmartsoftware.com Fri Jun 24 11:11:08 2005 From: eric.chatonet at sosmartsoftware.com (Eric Chatonet) Date: Fri, 24 Jun 2005 17:11:08 +0200 Subject: is within ... polygon shape? In-Reply-To: <20050624142636.A520993012C@mail.runrev.com> References: <20050624142636.A520993012C@mail.runrev.com> Message-ID: Let your computer and go a walk at a golf :-) Le 24 juin 05 ? 17:08, MisterX a ?crit : > if it's all white, then what? ;) > nothing beats mathematics ;) Best Regards from Paris, Eric Chatonet. ---------------------------------------------------------------- So Smart Software For institutions, companies and associations Built-to-order applications: management, multimedia, internet, etc. Windows, Mac OS and Linux... With the French touch Free plugins and tutorials on my website ---------------------------------------------------------------- Web site http://www.sosmartsoftware.com/ Email eric.chatonet at sosmartsoftware.com/ Phone 33 (0)1 43 31 77 62 Mobile 33 (0)6 20 74 50 86 ---------------------------------------------------------------- From revlist at cableone.net Fri Jun 24 11:17:44 2005 From: revlist at cableone.net (Chris Sheffield) Date: Fri, 24 Jun 2005 09:17:44 -0600 Subject: advice Message-ID: I just need some advice and opinions on this one. I'm working on creating a little backup / WinZip-like application (mostly just for my own use, but we'll see). I would like to store backed up files into custom properties of a stack, so that everything is contained in one easy-to-use file, much like a WinZip or Stuffit archive. Here's my question. I'm debating on whether to compress the files first, and then place them in the custom props, or to put them in uncompressed, and then compress the entire stack file all at once. Is there any benefit doing it one way over the other? I would think it would be faster to compress/decompress one file as opposed to many, but it would also mean that upon restoring the archive, I would need to decompress that archive and save it to a temporary stack file, then delete that temp file when the process is complete. Or am I wrong about that? Anyway, this is just kind of a design issue, and I'm wondering what the rest of you would do. Which way would be the most efficient? Thanks, Chris ------------------------------------------ Chris Sheffield Read Naturally The Fluency Company http://www.readnaturally.com ------------------------------------------ From bnz2 at cdc.gov Fri Jun 24 11:24:21 2005 From: bnz2 at cdc.gov (Lynch, Jonathan) Date: Fri, 24 Jun 2005 11:24:21 -0400 Subject: is within ... polygon shape? Message-ID: <64878EF567131D4596246171F75FD4A97445DA@m-epo-1.epo.cdc.gov> Yes, but the mathematical testing for such a thing is not easy... I mean, if it was a simple shape, with a simple formula to define the shape, then it probably would not be so hard. But, with an irregular polygon, you have to do something like this: Outer repeat loop (goes through every visible point in the bottom shape) Put the point to be tested into tPoint1 Inner repeat loop (goes through every visible point in the top shape) Put the point to be tested into tPoint2 If tPoint2 = tPoint1 then Return true Exit this function End if End inner repeat loop End outer repeat loop Doing that in transcript would be kind of slow. I imagine there must be faster algorithms, but they will all require tons of comparisons. -----Original Message----- From: use-revolution-bounces at lists.runrev.com [mailto:use-revolution-bounces at lists.runrev.com] On Behalf Of MisterX Sent: Friday, June 24, 2005 11:08 AM To: 'How to use Revolution' Subject: RE: is within ... polygon shape? if it's all white, then what? ;) nothing beats mathematics ;) cheers 1/X > -----Original Message----- > From: use-revolution-bounces at lists.runrev.com > [mailto:use-revolution-bounces at lists.runrev.com] On Behalf Of > Steve Bonham > Sent: Friday, June 24, 2005 16:55 > To: How to use Revolution > Subject: Re: is within ... polygon shape? > > Eric, > > Wow! > Now THAT is an ingenious approach!!! :-) and it might be just > the solution needed. > > I'll give it a shot. > > S > > > > >Re Steve, > > > >Another funny approach: > > > >function WhichObject pLoc,pObj > > local tCurLoc, tColor > > ----- > > put the screenMouseLoc into tCurLoc > > lock screen > > hide pObj > > set the screenMouseloc to globalLoc(pLoc) > > put the mouseColor into tColor > > set the screenMouseloc to tCurLoc > > show pObj > > unlock screen > > return WhatKindOfObject(tColor) > >end WhichObject > > > >WhatKindOfObject function would return the right object according to > >the passed color :-) Not tested... but should work. > >Ah, there are so many ways to do a job with Rev! > > -- > > > -------------------------------------------------------------- > ------------------------------------ > Steve Bonham > Director, Faculty Technology Development Laboratory Center > for Excellence in Teaching - Georgia Southern University > Statesboro, GA 30460-8143 > -------------------------------------------------------------- > ------------------------------------ > _______________________________________________ > use-revolution mailing list > use-revolution at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage > your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution > _______________________________________________ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution at lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution From mwieder at ahsoftware.net Fri Jun 24 11:29:14 2005 From: mwieder at ahsoftware.net (Mark Wieder) Date: Fri, 24 Jun 2005 08:29:14 -0700 Subject: Any experience with Expect In-Reply-To: <3d8af415050624070873b54a40@mail.gmail.com> References: <3d8af415050624070873b54a40@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <1033004790.20050624082914@ahsoftware.net> Glen- Friday, June 24, 2005, 7:08:43 AM, you wrote: GB> 1. I was wondering if Rev would not be a good alternative to this in GB> native form? GB> 2. Or would it be feasible to make Expect a Rev external ? Maybe I'm mising the point, but I don't see what would be gained by either of these. Expect uses Tcl/Tk to handle text scripts for controlling command-line programs. I don't see where a GUI wrapper would help in either creating scripts or running them. You'd still have to write the scripts and then hand them off to Tcl/Tk for execution. Possibly in archiving and retrieving regression tests, but rev seems a bit of overkill in that department. -- -Mark Wieder mwieder at ahsoftware.net From devin_asay at byu.edu Fri Jun 24 11:32:05 2005 From: devin_asay at byu.edu (Devin Asay) Date: Fri, 24 Jun 2005 09:32:05 -0600 Subject: LDAP query in shell Message-ID: <563EE227-0DF7-4EC8-84FC-2D6F604F8265@byu.edu> Don't have a windows box handy to test this (aside from being windows- impaired.): In *nix systems I can query an LDAP server using the ldapsearch utility in a shell function. Is there a similar utility that can be called in Windows 2000/XP? If so, can someone point me to the proper syntax? TIA DNA Devin Asay Humanities Technology and Research Support Center Brigham Young University From eric.chatonet at sosmartsoftware.com Fri Jun 24 11:33:37 2005 From: eric.chatonet at sosmartsoftware.com (Eric Chatonet) Date: Fri, 24 Jun 2005 17:33:37 +0200 Subject: advice In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <8C069F0B-5C08-4865-A069-49784E78DB4F@sosmartsoftware.com> Hi Chriss, Le 24 juin 05 ? 17:17, Chris Sheffield a ?crit : > I would think it would be faster to compress/decompress one file > as opposed to many, but it would also mean that upon restoring the > archive, I would need to decompress that archive and save it to a > temporary stack file, then delete that temp file when the process > is complete. If you want to be flexible (for instance to display a file names list, choose one to decompress and so on without having to make any change to your archive - which is always better for security) you will compress the files first. In addition, accessing to the needed data for archive management will be faster. As for me I would try to avoid to manipulate files... if they don't need it. Question of reliability :-) My two cents. Best Regards from Paris, Eric Chatonet. ---------------------------------------------------------------- So Smart Software For institutions, companies and associations Built-to-order applications: management, multimedia, internet, etc. Windows, Mac OS and Linux... With the French touch Free plugins and tutorials on my website ---------------------------------------------------------------- Web site http://www.sosmartsoftware.com/ Email eric.chatonet at sosmartsoftware.com/ Phone 33 (0)1 43 31 77 62 Mobile 33 (0)6 20 74 50 86 ---------------------------------------------------------------- From gbojsza at gmail.com Fri Jun 24 11:41:27 2005 From: gbojsza at gmail.com (Glen Bojsza) Date: Fri, 24 Jun 2005 11:41:27 -0400 Subject: Any experience with Expect In-Reply-To: <1033004790.20050624082914@ahsoftware.net> References: <3d8af415050624070873b54a40@mail.gmail.com> <1033004790.20050624082914@ahsoftware.net> Message-ID: <3d8af41505062408413ad25f6d@mail.gmail.com> As far as I can tell Expect in it's native form is simply a command line. Tcl/Tk was used to create a GUI enviroment for it. So Rev (which is a far better GUI enviroment ) could be used to develop a more custom interface for particular users. So if you ignore the addition of Tcl/Tk you have a command line package which could be accessed with Rev through the shell or possibly make Expect a Rev external. I guess what I am trying to get at is that Rev should be able to replace Tcl. On 6/24/05, Mark Wieder wrote: > Glen- > > Friday, June 24, 2005, 7:08:43 AM, you wrote: > > GB> 1. I was wondering if Rev would not be a good alternative to this in > GB> native form? > > GB> 2. Or would it be feasible to make Expect a Rev external ? > > Maybe I'm mising the point, but I don't see what would be gained by > either of these. Expect uses Tcl/Tk to handle text scripts for > controlling command-line programs. I don't see where a GUI wrapper > would help in either creating scripts or running them. You'd still > have to write the scripts and then hand them off to Tcl/Tk for > execution. Possibly in archiving and retrieving regression tests, but > rev seems a bit of overkill in that department. > > -- > -Mark Wieder > mwieder at ahsoftware.net > > _______________________________________________ > use-revolution mailing list > use-revolution at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution > From jhurley at infostations.com Fri Jun 24 11:43:34 2005 From: jhurley at infostations.com (Jim Hurley) Date: Fri, 24 Jun 2005 08:43:34 -0700 Subject: is within ... polygon shape? In-Reply-To: <20050624141523.A7134930128@mail.runrev.com> References: <20050624141523.A7134930128@mail.runrev.com> Message-ID: > >Message: 15 >Date: Fri, 24 Jun 2005 07:53:22 -0700 >From: Scott Rossi >Subject: Re: is within ... polygon shape? >To: How to use Revolution >Message-ID: >Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" > >Recently, Steve Bonham wrote: > >> Intersect doesn't work after all. It appears that one object will >> intersect with another irregular object's rect and NOT the objects > > true shape (polygon points). >> See illustration... at: >> http://academics.georgiasouthern.edu/cet/SB/ball_fairway.jpg >> >> Is there a way to get Rev to: >> 1. evaluate IF the loc of an object is within the shape (defined by a >> series of coordinates) of an object? >> >> OR >> 2. evaluate IF the loc of an object intersects with the shape >> (defined by a series of coordinates) of an object? > >I believe some folks on the list have written collision detection routines >that can detect intersection in several situations. I think Malte Brill >might know something about this. > >That being said, collision detection on irregular shapes can work by using >images that have a transparent background and point references. Using the >within() function it is possible to accurately detect whether a point falls >within the image since Rev will evaluate a point falling within the >transparent region of the image as false. > > get within(img 1,myPoint) > >Regards, > >Scott Rossi >Creative Director >Tactile Media, Multimedia & Design Steve, Scott is right. The function you want is "within()", which is different from "is within." It is very efficient. If you want to detect whether two polygons Poly1 and Poly2 intersect, you would first run function firstWithinSecond grc1,grc2 put the points of grc grc1 into myPolyPoints1 repeat for each line tPoint in myPolyPoints1 if within(grc grc2,tPoint) then return "true" end repeat return false end firstWithinSecond where grc1 is Poly1 and grc2 is Poly2 and then run the same routine with Poly1 and Poly2 reversed. It may be that a point (vertex) of Poly2 is within Poly1, but there is no vertex of Poly 1 which is within Poly2. You need to run both. Or write one handler to check both. I didn't realize it worked for points within images as well. Thanks Scott. Jim From sbonham at georgiasouthern.edu Fri Jun 24 11:46:20 2005 From: sbonham at georgiasouthern.edu (Steve Bonham) Date: Fri, 24 Jun 2005 11:46:20 -0400 Subject: AFAIK??? In-Reply-To: <20050624141639.45D06930125@mail.runrev.com> References: <20050624141639.45D06930125@mail.runrev.com> Message-ID: AFAIK? Is this pronounced like the duck says it in the insurance commercial? Seriously, what is AFAIK? S >you need a real algotithm. The "within" function only works on >rects only AFAIK. But the graphic will only detect a mouseup if >you click on its graphic, not the rect - so somehow, it's "calculated"... > >There's plenty of them algorithms on the net. >search "region intersection and/or polygon intersection" > >fun stuff... >im sure there's a Gauss or old greek technique for this! > >or... the xtalk way > >you can simulate a click at any point and if the target is >the card or not the graphic, then you got your intersection >logic running. > >i'll see what i can dig up tonite... interesting problem: > >is point in *space(f) of f(i) where i is any graphic def. > >oh and, new bugz 2934 found! Duh! Then people i dont check on my >bugs but hey, i dont charge as much ;) > >cheers >Xavier > >> -----Original Message----- >> From: use-revolution-bounces at lists.runrev.com >> [mailto:use-revolution-bounces at lists.runrev.com] On Behalf Of >> Steve Bonham >> Sent: Friday, June 24, 2005 16:31 >> To: How to use Revolution >> Subject: Re: is within ... polygon shape? >> >> hmmmm- >> >> Intersect doesn't work after all. It appears that one object >> will intersect with another irregular object's rect and NOT >> the objects true shape (polygon points). >> See illustration... at: >> http://academics.georgiasouthern.edu/cet/SB/ball_fairway.jpg >> >> Is there a way to get Rev to: >> 1. evaluate IF the loc of an object is within the shape >> (defined by a series of coordinates) of an object? >> >> OR >> 2. evaluate IF the loc of an object intersects with the shape >> (defined by a series of coordinates) of an object? >> >> Thx, >> S >> >> >> >> >Answered my own question- I found the "intersect" function >> and it works >> >(see below) >> > >> >if intersect(graphic "ball", graphic "sand1") then >> > put "in the bunker" into YourLie >> > end if >> > >> >HOWEVER... >> > >> >There are many, many objects that the ball object may >> intersect with... >> >Is it possible to use a "wildcard" character in Rev? >> > >> >For instance, there are 3 sand bunkers (sand1, sand2, sand3) and 60+ >> >trees (tree1, tree2, etc) >> > >> >Can I use something along the lines of : >> > >> >if intersect(graphic "ball", graphic "tree" & *) then >> > put "in the bunker" into YourLie >> > end if >> > >> >I'm supposing this is not possible (but it sounds like a logical >> >need)-- but maybe there is another way to accomplish this? >> > >> >Thx >> >S >> >> -- >> >> >> -------------------------------------------------------------- >> ------------------------------------ >> Steve Bonham >> Director, Faculty Technology Development Laboratory Center >> for Excellence in Teaching - Georgia Southern University >> Statesboro, GA 30460-8143 >> -------------------------------------------------------------- >> ------------------------------------ >> _______________________________________________ >> use-revolution mailing list >> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage >> your subscription preferences: >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution >> > >_______________________________________________ >use-revolution mailing list >use-revolution at lists.runrev.com >Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >subscription preferences: >http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution -- -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Steve Bonham Director, Faculty Technology Development Laboratory Center for Excellence in Teaching - Georgia Southern University Statesboro, GA 30460-8143 -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From sims at ezpzapps.com Fri Jun 24 11:49:42 2005 From: sims at ezpzapps.com (sims) Date: Fri, 24 Jun 2005 17:49:42 +0200 Subject: AFAIK??? In-Reply-To: References: <20050624141639.45D06930125@mail.runrev.com> Message-ID: >AFAIK? >Is this pronounced like the duck says it in the insurance commercial? > >Seriously, what is AFAIK? As far as I know...as far as I know. sims From bnz2 at cdc.gov Fri Jun 24 11:53:51 2005 From: bnz2 at cdc.gov (Lynch, Jonathan) Date: Fri, 24 Jun 2005 11:53:51 -0400 Subject: is within ... polygon shape? Message-ID: <64878EF567131D4596246171F75FD4A946A2E9@m-epo-1.epo.cdc.gov> This is pretty cool! But - would this work 100% for curved polygons or images? The docs do not mention points for images. Either, this is a very cool way of testing. -----Original Message----- From: use-revolution-bounces at lists.runrev.com [mailto:use-revolution-bounces at lists.runrev.com] On Behalf Of Jim Hurley Sent: Friday, June 24, 2005 11:44 AM To: use-revolution at lists.runrev.com Subject: Re: is within ... polygon shape? > >Message: 15 >Date: Fri, 24 Jun 2005 07:53:22 -0700 >From: Scott Rossi >Subject: Re: is within ... polygon shape? >To: How to use Revolution >Message-ID: >Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" > >Recently, Steve Bonham wrote: > >> Intersect doesn't work after all. It appears that one object will >> intersect with another irregular object's rect and NOT the objects > > true shape (polygon points). >> See illustration... at: >> http://academics.georgiasouthern.edu/cet/SB/ball_fairway.jpg >> >> Is there a way to get Rev to: >> 1. evaluate IF the loc of an object is within the shape (defined by a >> series of coordinates) of an object? >> >> OR >> 2. evaluate IF the loc of an object intersects with the shape >> (defined by a series of coordinates) of an object? > >I believe some folks on the list have written collision detection routines >that can detect intersection in several situations. I think Malte Brill >might know something about this. > >That being said, collision detection on irregular shapes can work by using >images that have a transparent background and point references. Using the >within() function it is possible to accurately detect whether a point falls >within the image since Rev will evaluate a point falling within the >transparent region of the image as false. > > get within(img 1,myPoint) > >Regards, > >Scott Rossi >Creative Director >Tactile Media, Multimedia & Design Steve, Scott is right. The function you want is "within()", which is different from "is within." It is very efficient. If you want to detect whether two polygons Poly1 and Poly2 intersect, you would first run function firstWithinSecond grc1,grc2 put the points of grc grc1 into myPolyPoints1 repeat for each line tPoint in myPolyPoints1 if within(grc grc2,tPoint) then return "true" end repeat return false end firstWithinSecond where grc1 is Poly1 and grc2 is Poly2 and then run the same routine with Poly1 and Poly2 reversed. It may be that a point (vertex) of Poly2 is within Poly1, but there is no vertex of Poly 1 which is within Poly2. You need to run both. Or write one handler to check both. I didn't realize it worked for points within images as well. Thanks Scott. Jim _______________________________________________ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution at lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution From b.xavier at internet.lu Fri Jun 24 12:00:14 2005 From: b.xavier at internet.lu (MisterX) Date: Fri, 24 Jun 2005 18:00:14 +0200 Subject: LDAP query in shell In-Reply-To: <563EE227-0DF7-4EC8-84FC-2D6F604F8265@byu.edu> Message-ID: <20050624151830.97B1A9300B8@mail.runrev.com> Devin yes there is. vbs. Shell vbs commands, it's the best way my colleagues and i have found. cheers Xavier > -----Original Message----- > From: use-revolution-bounces at lists.runrev.com > [mailto:use-revolution-bounces at lists.runrev.com] On Behalf Of > Devin Asay > Sent: Friday, June 24, 2005 17:32 > To: How to use Revolution > Subject: LDAP query in shell > > Don't have a windows box handy to test this (aside from being windows- > impaired.): > > In *nix systems I can query an LDAP server using the > ldapsearch utility in a shell function. Is there a similar > utility that can be called in Windows 2000/XP? If so, can > someone point me to the proper syntax? > > TIA > > DNA > > Devin Asay > Humanities Technology and Research Support Center Brigham > Young University > > _______________________________________________ > use-revolution mailing list > use-revolution at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage > your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution > From sbonham at georgiasouthern.edu Fri Jun 24 12:01:22 2005 From: sbonham at georgiasouthern.edu (Steve Bonham) Date: Fri, 24 Jun 2005 12:01:22 -0400 Subject: AFAIK??? In-Reply-To: References: <20050624141639.45D06930125@mail.runrev.com> Message-ID: LOL & DISS! (Duh, I'm so stoopid!) ;-) Thx Sims. Sorry, I havn't seen that one (AFAIK) before. S >>AFAIK? >>Is this pronounced like the duck says it in the insurance commercial? >> >>Seriously, what is AFAIK? > > >As far as I know...as far as I know. > >sims > > >_______________________________________________ >use-revolution mailing list >use-revolution at lists.runrev.com >Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >subscription preferences: >http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution -- -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Steve Bonham Director, Faculty Technology Development Laboratory Center for Excellence in Teaching - Georgia Southern University Statesboro, GA 30460-8143 -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From SimPLsol at aol.com Fri Jun 24 12:04:04 2005 From: SimPLsol at aol.com (SimPLsol at aol.com) Date: Fri, 24 Jun 2005 12:04:04 EDT Subject: AFAIK??? Message-ID: <1a5.399f1286.2fed88f4@aol.com> S., As far as I know, it is an Eskimo word meaning "your code is mush". As far as I know, it is the sound a chain saw makes when cutting porcelain. As far as I know, it is the sound coming from the dashboard radio on the Mars Rover. As far as I know, it is a pair of $600 loafers. As far as I know, .... Paul Looney From rblanc at eiproject.net Fri Jun 24 12:05:23 2005 From: rblanc at eiproject.net (Rick Blanc) Date: Fri, 24 Jun 2005 09:05:23 -0700 Subject: Presenting Revolution at the eLearning Expo Message-ID: <42BC2F43.1060905@eiproject.net> Dear Revolution Users and Team Members, I would like to invite any user and the Revolution team to present Revolution for the /*eLearning 2005*/ virtual expo utilizing movies with audio narratives . eiProject will sponsor the entire project. The expo is comprised of movies with audio narratives demonstrating products for our attendees. You may request more information for a complete synopsis. *Connection Type: *Fast Internet connection *Target market*: Education - instructors and content providers. *Target Registrants: *2300 *Exhibitors Selection Process: *All products are selected by our staff* Scheduled for* October 28, 2005 *Cost: *100 % sponsored for Revolution - one year - renewable Anyone interested or would like more information please contact me. Best Regards, Rick Blanc From mwieder at ahsoftware.net Fri Jun 24 12:21:38 2005 From: mwieder at ahsoftware.net (Mark Wieder) Date: Fri, 24 Jun 2005 09:21:38 -0700 Subject: Any experience with Expect In-Reply-To: <3d8af41505062408413ad25f6d@mail.gmail.com> References: <3d8af415050624070873b54a40@mail.gmail.com> <1033004790.20050624082914@ahsoftware.net> <3d8af41505062408413ad25f6d@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <596149262.20050624092138@ahsoftware.net> Glen- I still don't get it. Replacing expect with rev would be a bad idea - expect processes its own scripts to deal with commandline tools. It's much better at this as a single-purpose tool than rev would be. Using rev as a wrapper around expect would do... what? Provide a text box for entering expect scripts? Launch expect with a shell command? If you really need that, can't you just get shell("expect < somescript") -- -Mark Wieder mwieder at ahsoftware.net From bnz2 at cdc.gov Fri Jun 24 12:20:19 2005 From: bnz2 at cdc.gov (Lynch, Jonathan) Date: Fri, 24 Jun 2005 12:20:19 -0400 Subject: is within ... polygon shape? Message-ID: <64878EF567131D4596246171F75FD4A97445DB@m-epo-1.epo.cdc.gov> How about this technique... This would work as long as the two objects are not the exact same color. Step one: Put object 1 on top of object 2 Take a snapshot of the rect that contains both objects Put the imagedata for that snapshot into tImageData1 Step two: Put object 2 on top of object 1 Take a snapshot of the rect that contains both objects Put the imagedata for that snapshot into tImageData2 If tImageData1 <> tImageData2 then return true Basically, the idea is that, as long as the visible portions do not overlap, the image of the rect that contains both objects will be the same, regardless of which is on top. If the image of that rect changes when the Z order changes, then they must overlap. -----Original Message----- From: use-revolution-bounces at lists.runrev.com [mailto:use-revolution-bounces at lists.runrev.com] On Behalf Of Lynch, Jonathan Sent: Friday, June 24, 2005 11:54 AM To: How to use Revolution Subject: RE: is within ... polygon shape? This is pretty cool! But - would this work 100% for curved polygons or images? The docs do not mention points for images. Either, this is a very cool way of testing. -----Original Message----- From: use-revolution-bounces at lists.runrev.com [mailto:use-revolution-bounces at lists.runrev.com] On Behalf Of Jim Hurley Sent: Friday, June 24, 2005 11:44 AM To: use-revolution at lists.runrev.com Subject: Re: is within ... polygon shape? > >Message: 15 >Date: Fri, 24 Jun 2005 07:53:22 -0700 >From: Scott Rossi >Subject: Re: is within ... polygon shape? >To: How to use Revolution >Message-ID: >Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" > >Recently, Steve Bonham wrote: > >> Intersect doesn't work after all. It appears that one object will >> intersect with another irregular object's rect and NOT the objects > > true shape (polygon points). >> See illustration... at: >> http://academics.georgiasouthern.edu/cet/SB/ball_fairway.jpg >> >> Is there a way to get Rev to: >> 1. evaluate IF the loc of an object is within the shape (defined by a >> series of coordinates) of an object? >> >> OR >> 2. evaluate IF the loc of an object intersects with the shape >> (defined by a series of coordinates) of an object? > >I believe some folks on the list have written collision detection routines >that can detect intersection in several situations. I think Malte Brill >might know something about this. > >That being said, collision detection on irregular shapes can work by using >images that have a transparent background and point references. Using the >within() function it is possible to accurately detect whether a point falls >within the image since Rev will evaluate a point falling within the >transparent region of the image as false. > > get within(img 1,myPoint) > >Regards, > >Scott Rossi >Creative Director >Tactile Media, Multimedia & Design Steve, Scott is right. The function you want is "within()", which is different from "is within." It is very efficient. If you want to detect whether two polygons Poly1 and Poly2 intersect, you would first run function firstWithinSecond grc1,grc2 put the points of grc grc1 into myPolyPoints1 repeat for each line tPoint in myPolyPoints1 if within(grc grc2,tPoint) then return "true" end repeat return false end firstWithinSecond where grc1 is Poly1 and grc2 is Poly2 and then run the same routine with Poly1 and Poly2 reversed. It may be that a point (vertex) of Poly2 is within Poly1, but there is no vertex of Poly 1 which is within Poly2. You need to run both. Or write one handler to check both. I didn't realize it worked for points within images as well. Thanks Scott. Jim _______________________________________________ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution at lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution _______________________________________________ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution at lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution From dsc at swcp.com Fri Jun 24 12:25:50 2005 From: dsc at swcp.com (Dar Scott) Date: Fri, 24 Jun 2005 10:25:50 -0600 Subject: Confirm Long File Name Bug in Player Object In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Jun 23, 2005, at 6:39 PM, Scott Rossi wrote: >> Even so, I think this loss of functionality qualifies as (at most) >> "Major", in that it is a "major loss of function." I understand >> "Blocker" to mean "I can't develop." > > How is this different from "I can't deliver?" It blocks you up front in development, not at the end. If a bug's fix's being crucial in delivery makes it a Blocker, then I'll have to change a dozen of my bug entries to Blocker. I can't argue that this bug is not a blocker, only that (from my reading of the bugzilla definition) it is not a Blocker. I don't mean to belittle the bug; I'm just being legalistic about the category Blocker. Even though it is highest in some sense, it also is different in quality in that it narrows the kind of bug. Examples might be "key doesn't work" or "can't open stack". I didn't make up the definition, so I might be way off. Dar -- ********************************************** DSC (Dar Scott Consulting & Dar's Lab) http://www.swcp.com/dsc/ Programming and software ********************************************** From scott at tactilemedia.com Fri Jun 24 12:37:56 2005 From: scott at tactilemedia.com (Scott Rossi) Date: Fri, 24 Jun 2005 09:37:56 -0700 Subject: is within ... polygon shape? In-Reply-To: <64878EF567131D4596246171F75FD4A946A2E9@m-epo-1.epo.cdc.gov> Message-ID: Recently, Lynch, Jonathan wrote: >> Using the within() function it is possible to accurately detect >> whether a point falls within the image since Rev will evaluate a >> point falling within the transparent region of the image as false. > But - would this work 100% for curved polygons or images? It works reliably with images as long as the transparent regions of the image are 100% transparent. Try it. Routines for polygons should work reliably as well. (Although Jim's routine seems to work only for intersecting edges, and not when a smaller polygon falls *completely* within a larger polygon -- any tweak available Jim?) Regards, Scott Rossi Creative Director Tactile Media, Multimedia & Design ----- E: scott at tactilemedia.com W: http://www.tactilemedia.com From bnz2 at cdc.gov Fri Jun 24 12:44:03 2005 From: bnz2 at cdc.gov (Lynch, Jonathan) Date: Fri, 24 Jun 2005 12:44:03 -0400 Subject: is within ... polygon shape? Message-ID: <64878EF567131D4596246171F75FD4A97445DC@m-epo-1.epo.cdc.gov> This command: Put the points of image "myImage1" into field "feedback" Causes an error - it says this object does not have this property. I am misunderstanding something aren't I? -----Original Message----- From: use-revolution-bounces at lists.runrev.com [mailto:use-revolution-bounces at lists.runrev.com] On Behalf Of Scott Rossi Sent: Friday, June 24, 2005 12:38 PM To: How to use Revolution Subject: Re: is within ... polygon shape? Recently, Lynch, Jonathan wrote: >> Using the within() function it is possible to accurately detect >> whether a point falls within the image since Rev will evaluate a >> point falling within the transparent region of the image as false. > But - would this work 100% for curved polygons or images? It works reliably with images as long as the transparent regions of the image are 100% transparent. Try it. Routines for polygons should work reliably as well. (Although Jim's routine seems to work only for intersecting edges, and not when a smaller polygon falls *completely* within a larger polygon -- any tweak available Jim?) Regards, Scott Rossi Creative Director Tactile Media, Multimedia & Design ----- E: scott at tactilemedia.com W: http://www.tactilemedia.com _______________________________________________ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution at lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution From scott at tactilemedia.com Fri Jun 24 12:50:16 2005 From: scott at tactilemedia.com (Scott Rossi) Date: Fri, 24 Jun 2005 09:50:16 -0700 Subject: is within ... polygon shape? In-Reply-To: <64878EF567131D4596246171F75FD4A97445DC@m-epo-1.epo.cdc.gov> Message-ID: Recently, Lynch, Jonathan wrote: > Put the points of image "myImage1" into field "feedback" > > Causes an error - it says this object does not have this property. I am > misunderstanding something aren't I? Images don't have points. You simply test the point against the image itself: if within(img "myImage",myPoint) then answer "point is within the image" Regards, Scott Rossi Creative Director Tactile Media, Multimedia & Design ----- E: scott at tactilemedia.com W: http://www.tactilemedia.com From bnz2 at cdc.gov Fri Jun 24 13:00:05 2005 From: bnz2 at cdc.gov (Lynch, Jonathan) Date: Fri, 24 Jun 2005 13:00:05 -0400 Subject: is within ... polygon shape? Message-ID: <64878EF567131D4596246171F75FD4A946A2F0@m-epo-1.epo.cdc.gov> Ah, but that only tests a single point. To be perfectly accurate, one would need to test every single non-transparent point in the image. -----Original Message----- From: use-revolution-bounces at lists.runrev.com [mailto:use-revolution-bounces at lists.runrev.com] On Behalf Of Scott Rossi Sent: Friday, June 24, 2005 12:50 PM To: How to use Revolution Subject: Re: is within ... polygon shape? Recently, Lynch, Jonathan wrote: > Put the points of image "myImage1" into field "feedback" > > Causes an error - it says this object does not have this property. I am > misunderstanding something aren't I? Images don't have points. You simply test the point against the image itself: if within(img "myImage",myPoint) then answer "point is within the image" Regards, Scott Rossi Creative Director Tactile Media, Multimedia & Design ----- E: scott at tactilemedia.com W: http://www.tactilemedia.com _______________________________________________ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution at lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution From jhurley at infostations.com Fri Jun 24 13:09:15 2005 From: jhurley at infostations.com (Jim Hurley) Date: Fri, 24 Jun 2005 10:09:15 -0700 Subject: is within ... polygon shape? In-Reply-To: <20050624160049.BF97A930128@mail.runrev.com> References: <20050624160049.BF97A930128@mail.runrev.com> Message-ID: > >Message: 7 >Date: Fri, 24 Jun 2005 09:37:56 -0700 >From: Scott Rossi >Subject: Re: is within ... polygon shape? >To: How to use Revolution >Message-ID: >Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" > >Recently, Lynch, Jonathan wrote: > >>> Using the within() function it is possible to accurately detect >>> whether a point falls within the image since Rev will evaluate a >>> point falling within the transparent region of the image as false. > > > But - would this work 100% for curved polygons or images? > >It works reliably with images as long as the transparent regions of the >image are 100% transparent. Try it. > >Routines for polygons should work reliably as well. > >(Although Jim's routine seems to work only for intersecting edges, and not >when a smaller polygon falls *completely* within a larger polygon -- any >tweak available Jim?) > >Regards, > >Scott Rossi >Creative Director >Tactile Media, Multimedia & Design Scott, I don't understand what you mean when you say it fails with large polygons. In the stack below, it doesn't seem to make any difference how large the polygons are. I can't image why Rev would fail to recognize when a point is within a polygon. go stack url "http://home.infostations.net/jhurley/CollidingPolygons.rev" Jim From scott at tactilemedia.com Fri Jun 24 13:16:21 2005 From: scott at tactilemedia.com (Scott Rossi) Date: Fri, 24 Jun 2005 10:16:21 -0700 Subject: is within ... polygon shape? In-Reply-To: <64878EF567131D4596246171F75FD4A946A2F0@m-epo-1.epo.cdc.gov> Message-ID: Recently, Lynch, Jonathan wrote: >>> Put the points of image "myImage1" into field "feedback" >>> Causes an error - it says this object does not have this property. I >>> am misunderstanding something aren't I? >> Images don't have points. You simply test the point against the image >> itself: >> if within(img "myImage",myPoint) then answer "point is within the >> image" > Ah, but that only tests a single point. To be perfectly accurate, one > would need to test every single non-transparent point in the image. OK, let's use a golf analogy as an example. Let's say you wanted to find out if the ball is on the green: if within(img "green",loc of img "ball") then answer "ready to putt" In this case you are testing the loc point of the ball against the opaque region of the "green" image. There is only one point to test. You could go further and test all the rect points of the ball as well: topLeft, topRight, etc but this depends on how precise you want to be. Does this make sense? Regards, Scott Rossi Creative Director Tactile Media, Multimedia & Design ----- E: scott at tactilemedia.com W: http://www.tactilemedia.com From jhurley at infostations.com Fri Jun 24 13:16:14 2005 From: jhurley at infostations.com (Jim Hurley) Date: Fri, 24 Jun 2005 10:16:14 -0700 Subject: Contextual menus and polygons In-Reply-To: <20050624160049.BF97A930128@mail.runrev.com> References: <20050624160049.BF97A930128@mail.runrev.com> Message-ID: I'm losing my mind. I have always used "command-option-shift-click" to get the contextual menu. Works for when either the browser tool or the pointer tool is selected. As soon as I open Run Rev the fingers on my left hand assume the command-option-shift configuration. But in 2.5 and 2.6 it works for every control *except* a polygon. In 2.2 it worked for polygons. Anybody else experience this? Mac OS 10.2.8 Jim From mwieder at ahsoftware.net Fri Jun 24 13:20:07 2005 From: mwieder at ahsoftware.net (Mark Wieder) Date: Fri, 24 Jun 2005 10:20:07 -0700 Subject: Confirm Long File Name Bug in Player Object In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1389657777.20050624102007@ahsoftware.net> Dar- Friday, June 24, 2005, 9:25:50 AM, you wrote: DS> I didn't make up the definition, so I might be way off. I don't think you're way off, but off enough to be wrong. To my mind, a blocker is "I can't do xyz in rev" for one reason or another and this prevents me from delivering my application to my clients. Whether this is because of a development issue for which there is no workaround or because of a runtime issue is merely academic. If I can't get something accomplished in rev and have to switch to another tool, that's a blocker. I do have some bugs for which this is true and I have left at "major" instead of bumping the level because I don't have a pressing need for them to be fixed. If I did then they would be blocking me from doing what I need to do and I wouldn't have a problem escalating them. -- -Mark Wieder mwieder at ahsoftware.net From scott at tactilemedia.com Fri Jun 24 13:23:26 2005 From: scott at tactilemedia.com (Scott Rossi) Date: Fri, 24 Jun 2005 10:23:26 -0700 Subject: is within ... polygon shape? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Recently, Jim Hurley wrote: > I don't understand what you mean when you say it fails with large polygons. > > In the stack below, it doesn't seem to make any difference how large > the polygons are. I can't image why Rev would fail to recognize when > a point is within a polygon. > > go stack url "http://home.infostations.net/jhurley/CollidingPolygons.rev" Because on my end I tried: if firstWithinSecond("mypoly1","mypoly2") *and* ... instead of: if firstWithinSecond("mypoly1","mypoly2") *or* Replacing "and" with "or" makes your routine work as expected (I should have known something was up on my end being the math guru that you are). So Jonathan, there you are: two routines that allow you to test intersection with images or polygons. Regards, Scott Rossi Creative Director Tactile Media, Multimedia & Design ----- E: scott at tactilemedia.com W: http://www.tactilemedia.com From bnz2 at cdc.gov Fri Jun 24 13:24:09 2005 From: bnz2 at cdc.gov (Lynch, Jonathan) Date: Fri, 24 Jun 2005 13:24:09 -0400 Subject: is within ... polygon shape? Message-ID: <64878EF567131D4596246171F75FD4A97445DD@m-epo-1.epo.cdc.gov> Yes, makes perfect sense:) There are some situations where you might need to be that precise. At least, I guess there are - none for anything I do. I think I see another way to do it, without having to test against every single point in the moving image. -----Original Message----- From: use-revolution-bounces at lists.runrev.com [mailto:use-revolution-bounces at lists.runrev.com] On Behalf Of Scott Rossi Sent: Friday, June 24, 2005 1:16 PM To: How to use Revolution Subject: Re: is within ... polygon shape? Recently, Lynch, Jonathan wrote: >>> Put the points of image "myImage1" into field "feedback" >>> Causes an error - it says this object does not have this property. I >>> am misunderstanding something aren't I? >> Images don't have points. You simply test the point against the image >> itself: >> if within(img "myImage",myPoint) then answer "point is within the >> image" > Ah, but that only tests a single point. To be perfectly accurate, one > would need to test every single non-transparent point in the image. OK, let's use a golf analogy as an example. Let's say you wanted to find out if the ball is on the green: if within(img "green",loc of img "ball") then answer "ready to putt" In this case you are testing the loc point of the ball against the opaque region of the "green" image. There is only one point to test. You could go further and test all the rect points of the ball as well: topLeft, topRight, etc but this depends on how precise you want to be. Does this make sense? Regards, Scott Rossi Creative Director Tactile Media, Multimedia & Design ----- E: scott at tactilemedia.com W: http://www.tactilemedia.com _______________________________________________ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution at lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution From bnz2 at cdc.gov Fri Jun 24 13:26:01 2005 From: bnz2 at cdc.gov (Lynch, Jonathan) Date: Fri, 24 Jun 2005 13:26:01 -0400 Subject: is within ... polygon shape? Message-ID: <64878EF567131D4596246171F75FD4A946A2F3@m-epo-1.epo.cdc.gov> Good stuff... I was not the original asker for this - I just chimed in because it peaked my interest. Cheers, J -----Original Message----- From: use-revolution-bounces at lists.runrev.com [mailto:use-revolution-bounces at lists.runrev.com] On Behalf Of Scott Rossi Sent: Friday, June 24, 2005 1:23 PM To: How to use Revolution Subject: Re: is within ... polygon shape? Recently, Jim Hurley wrote: > I don't understand what you mean when you say it fails with large polygons. > > In the stack below, it doesn't seem to make any difference how large > the polygons are. I can't image why Rev would fail to recognize when > a point is within a polygon. > > go stack url "http://home.infostations.net/jhurley/CollidingPolygons.rev" Because on my end I tried: if firstWithinSecond("mypoly1","mypoly2") *and* ... instead of: if firstWithinSecond("mypoly1","mypoly2") *or* Replacing "and" with "or" makes your routine work as expected (I should have known something was up on my end being the math guru that you are). So Jonathan, there you are: two routines that allow you to test intersection with images or polygons. Regards, Scott Rossi Creative Director Tactile Media, Multimedia & Design ----- E: scott at tactilemedia.com W: http://www.tactilemedia.com _______________________________________________ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution at lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution From jperryl at ecs.fullerton.edu Fri Jun 24 13:41:50 2005 From: jperryl at ecs.fullerton.edu (Judy Perry) Date: Fri, 24 Jun 2005 10:41:50 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Fast/slow code example (was: Re: compileIt for revolution?) In-Reply-To: <442A7934-7BDE-4D72-97BE-71B8E1CCBF61@education.lu> Message-ID: Well, _my_ understanding of the online scripting conferences is that they are intended towards newbies; thus they are more about basic functionality and how-to use Rev as opposed to code optimization. Am I wrong Jacque? Judy On Fri, 24 Jun 2005, Langers Christian wrote: > Perhaps, I will find more infos in the online scripting conferences ? From jperryl at ecs.fullerton.edu Fri Jun 24 13:49:17 2005 From: jperryl at ecs.fullerton.edu (Judy Perry) Date: Fri, 24 Jun 2005 10:49:17 -0700 (PDT) Subject: is within ... polygon shape? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: bummer... I was hoping that you'd found a solution to my need for the sort of irregularly-shaped buttons that an old HC external provided. Drats! Judy On Fri, 24 Jun 2005, Steve Bonham wrote: > hmmmm- > > Intersect doesn't work after all. It appears that one object will > intersect with another irregular object's rect and NOT the objects > true shape (polygon points). > See illustration... at: > http://academics.georgiasouthern.edu/cet/SB/ball_fairway.jpg --Yup, that was my finding as well. Sigh... From jperryl at ecs.fullerton.edu Fri Jun 24 13:51:28 2005 From: jperryl at ecs.fullerton.edu (Judy Perry) Date: Fri, 24 Jun 2005 10:51:28 -0700 (PDT) Subject: is within ... polygon shape? In-Reply-To: <20050624141639.45D06930125@mail.runrev.com> Message-ID: Yup, that's what somebody told me when I asked about it privately some months ago: "You need to read a book on algorithms"... Gave up. Judy On Fri, 24 Jun 2005, MisterX wrote: > you need a real algotithm. From devin_asay at byu.edu Fri Jun 24 14:00:00 2005 From: devin_asay at byu.edu (Devin Asay) Date: Fri, 24 Jun 2005 12:00:00 -0600 Subject: LDAP query in shell In-Reply-To: <20050624151830.97B1A9300B8@mail.runrev.com> References: <20050624151830.97B1A9300B8@mail.runrev.com> Message-ID: <8785F02B-22FF-4A35-8FA7-B531EE328966@byu.edu> On Jun 24, 2005, at 10:00 AM, MisterX wrote: > Devin > > yes there is. vbs. Shell vbs commands, it's the best way > my colleagues and i have found. > > cheers > Xavier Xavier, Thanks for the reply. Is this something that can be called from Rev? And have the results returned to my rev app? Is vbs standard on all Win32 installations? Are there examples on the web I could look at. Thanks. Devin > > >> -----Original Message----- >> From: use-revolution-bounces at lists.runrev.com >> [mailto:use-revolution-bounces at lists.runrev.com] On Behalf Of >> Devin Asay >> Sent: Friday, June 24, 2005 17:32 >> To: How to use Revolution >> Subject: LDAP query in shell >> >> Don't have a windows box handy to test this (aside from being >> windows- >> impaired.): >> >> In *nix systems I can query an LDAP server using the >> ldapsearch utility in a shell function. Is there a similar >> utility that can be called in Windows 2000/XP? If so, can >> someone point me to the proper syntax? >> >> TIA >> >> DNA >> >> Devin Asay >> Humanities Technology and Research Support Center Brigham >> Young University >> >> _______________________________________________ >> use-revolution mailing list >> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage >> your subscription preferences: >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution >> >> > > _______________________________________________ > use-revolution mailing list > use-revolution at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution > Devin Asay Humanities Technology and Research Support Center Brigham Young University From jmac at consensustech.com Fri Jun 24 14:00:52 2005 From: jmac at consensustech.com (Jim MacConnell) Date: Fri, 24 Jun 2005 11:00:52 -0700 Subject: the := operator (affectation In-Reply-To: <83CC6FF8-3FA7-44FB-AB13-9EDE208D2A79@writeme.com> References: <1119521638.42ba8b6699019@staffmail.ed.ac.uk> <42BAE906.6050502@fourthworld.com> <02BAB77F-922D-4777-AF6B-B218390DAFE5@writeme.com> <0c803bc64d5aa6c05097f3715c301ea2@swcp.com> <16635F34-8111-4431-BF62-CD097969D938@writeme.com> <3FF1186D-CDFA-443D-88BD-18A2FB93D85E@consensustech.com> <83CC6FF8-3FA7-44FB-AB13-9EDE208D2A79@writeme.com> Message-ID: Dennis, > My apologies, I was a bit over the top yesterday in my reply. Thanks... and I was a wee tad over in my response... > I guess I was a bit too obscure. The ;-) was the clue that the > statements were an example of get, put, gets syntax and a > lighthearted jab not meant to be taken too literally: > > You just don't "get it", because "get it" is a no op. > I can't say I can "get it into" your head, because "get...into" is > bad syntax mixing left and right assignment, showing the difference > between get and put. > Perhaps Jim gets it now... new syntax of left assignment that is > English like syntax. What a difference a few quotes make. I can hear your "voice" now and understand where you were headed. Fine example of dangers of interpreting email too literally.... which I am prone to do when tired. What appeared to be sarcastic and cynical and rude was in fact clever example... > So in Transcript left assignment might be better stated using the > familiar syntax: set var to x > The get command becomes the shortcut equivelent of: set it to > > So you see Jim, now I get it! Or,,, get is a shortcut for "put the propX into it"... the set - put difference still rears its head > I have always been bothered by the left right reversal between > setting parameters (just another type of container), and putting > into variables. I have mistyped setting the parameter many times > using the form: put x into the parameter of y. The syntax is not > ambiguous as far as I can tell. Perhaps both set and put syntaxes > should be regularized to allow either, and relegate parameters to > the ordinary family of containers. At least allow the setting of > variables even if putting into parameters is kept exclusive. > > Comments? When phrased this way, the left - right assignment question becomes one, not of ":=", "=>", etc. but rather........ Why can't I "set a variable to x?" and why can't I "put something into a property?" .. that's simple enough for even me to get ;-{) Off the top of my head there are significant differences between variables and properties: persistence (properties stay there when you shut down), scope (you can access any property from anywhere whereas variables must be explicitly defined as global and then are available only if the stack is running and has assigned them a value) and messaging (objects can respond to a change in their properties (setProp & getProp)). Is that enough to justify a syntax change for addressing them.... Hmmmm? It may be that last item that is key. "Set" sends a message to an object.... the one with the property... and that object can react to that message appropriately with setProp/ getProp "Put" doesn't send a message anywhere... well.. execpt for the fact that the object responds to a "put the propX into var" anyway with a "call" to getProp So why couldn't an object respond to a "put var into the propX" with the setProp structure... it could...... So maybe it doesn't matter? Am I coming around to a different perspective? Of course.. none of this has to anything to do with assignment operators... Jim From dsc at swcp.com Fri Jun 24 14:06:14 2005 From: dsc at swcp.com (Dar Scott) Date: Fri, 24 Jun 2005 12:06:14 -0600 Subject: Confirm Long File Name Bug in Player Object In-Reply-To: <1389657777.20050624102007@ahsoftware.net> References: <1389657777.20050624102007@ahsoftware.net> Message-ID: On Jun 24, 2005, at 11:20 AM, Mark Wieder wrote: > DS> I didn't make up the definition, so I might be way off. > > I don't think you're way off, but off enough to be wrong. I have a vague memory of being wrong before, so that is possible. > To my mind, a blocker is "I can't do xyz in rev" for one reason or > another and this prevents me from delivering my application to my > clients. Whether this is because of a development issue for which > there is no workaround or because of a runtime issue is merely > academic. If I can't get something accomplished in rev and have to > switch to another tool, that's a blocker. I guess my point is that it is not a "to my mind" thing. It is a matter of respecting the definition set up by Runrev. Runrev might have limited Blocker to only bugs that had to do with the color green and I would be inclined to submit to that, though I might mock it. Even so, I admit that I might be reading in something more stringent than what is there. Dar -- ********************************************** DSC (Dar Scott Consulting & Dar's Lab) http://www.swcp.com/dsc/ Programming and software ********************************************** From capellan2000 at yahoo.com Fri Jun 24 14:21:30 2005 From: capellan2000 at yahoo.com (Alejandro Tejada) Date: Fri, 24 Jun 2005 11:21:30 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Sucess compiling Alex Tweedly DLL! In-Reply-To: <20050624160049.BF97A930128@mail.runrev.com> Message-ID: <20050624182135.70633.qmail@web40505.mail.yahoo.com> Hi Developers, i had success following the instructions given by Alex Tweedly to compile his external with Dev-C++ (Bloodshed). I downloaded and installed the latest version available of this compiler. here are the files i used in the compilation: now, while using the same recipe to compile the external from the sdk, i get a lot of warnings and linker errors about a long list of similar undeclared objects like: "SelectObject at 8" does anyone could give us a hint about Where is the linker looking for these objects??? Thanks a lot Alex, for sharing your dll! :-) and Thanks in advance to all of you that will help the linker to find these "missing" undeclared objects. ;-) al Visit my site: http://www.geocities.com/capellan2000/ __________________________________ Yahoo! Mail Mobile Take Yahoo! Mail with you! Check email on your mobile phone. http://mobile.yahoo.com/learn/mail From europe at ehug.info Fri Jun 24 14:29:48 2005 From: europe at ehug.info (Mark Schonewille) Date: Fri, 24 Jun 2005 20:29:48 +0200 Subject: What's this? Message-ID: <42BC511C.9050009@ehug.info> Hello, Somewhere, I don't remember exactly where, I read about the tremendous AE. I am really curious about this, because it must be something very cool, but I don't know what it is. Is there anyone who can tell me more about it? One more thing: don't forget about the ChatRev session, which is starting in about an hour (21.30 CET). You can download a Chat client at and find more info about the Chatrev Coding Contest at . See you on-line! Best regards, Mark -- eHUG coordinator mailto:europe at ehug.info http://www.ehug.info http://home.wanadoo.nl/mark.sch http://www.economy-x-talk.com Please inform me about vacancies in the field of general economics at your institute. I am also looking for new freelance programming projects. From klaus at major-k.de Fri Jun 24 14:30:46 2005 From: klaus at major-k.de (Klaus Major) Date: Fri, 24 Jun 2005 20:30:46 +0200 Subject: Sucess compiling Alex Tweedly DLL! In-Reply-To: <20050624182135.70633.qmail@web40505.mail.yahoo.com> References: <20050624182135.70633.qmail@web40505.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <5C170FAA-3F0D-4504-8A9F-637358C3B734@major-k.de> Hi Alejandro, > Hi Developers, > > i had success following the instructions > given by Alex Tweedly to compile his external > with Dev-C++ (Bloodshed). > I downloaded and installed the latest version > available of this compiler. > > here are the files i used in the compilation: > > > now, while using the same recipe to compile > the external from the sdk, i get a lot of > warnings and linker errors about a long list > of similar undeclared objects > like: "SelectObject at 8" > > does anyone could give us a hint about > Where is the linker looking for these objects??? > > Thanks a lot Alex, for sharing your dll! :-) > and Thanks in advance to all of you > that will help the linker to find these > "missing" undeclared objects. ;-) ehm, sorry, but looks like i missed the part with the explanation of what the wonderful external actually does? So, what does that wonderfull DLL actually do? :-) Sorry for my ignorance... > al > > > Visit my site: > http://www.geocities.com/capellan2000/ Best Klaus Major klaus at major-k.de http://www.major-k.de From YourSignup at Yahoo.com Fri Jun 24 14:42:18 2005 From: YourSignup at Yahoo.com (Jim Bufalini) Date: Fri, 24 Jun 2005 08:42:18 -1000 Subject: Fast/slow code example (was: Re: compileIt for revolution?) In-Reply-To: <2E3405F2-5675-410A-AA14-F1C7F98AB6D5@sosmartsoftware.com> Message-ID: Eric, For someone moving from other languages (like I am) to Transcript, I believe three of the four errors you point out in your example should be obvious and the same in all languages. Those are: 1. Repeatedly accessing the same data structure (field) instead of first putting it into a variable. 2. Repeatedly updating the screen on a background process. 3. Repeatedly setting a property that only needs to be set once. However, the "repeat with i =" form being slower than the "repeat for each" was news to me! There is nothing in the documentation, that I can find, that addresses the most efficient way, from the perspective of the engine, to write a control structure. Apparently, this is particularly true of the repeat structure. Is it also true for say the if..then structure? Is it more efficient to put your conditions into variables and then use the variables as conditions of the if...then? These are the kinds of things a newbie (like myself) would greatly appreciate being documented. This is to say, if there are two or more ways to write the same statement (as with the repeat example), then if someone knows one works faster than the rest, because of their knowledge of the inner workings of the engine, then this would be valuable to document or post. This might cut down the 300 pages. :) Jim -----Original Message----- From: use-revolution-bounces at lists.runrev.com [mailto:use-revolution-bounces at lists.runrev.com]On Behalf Of Eric Chatonet Sent: Thursday, June 23, 2005 11:02 PM To: How to use Revolution Subject: Fast/slow code example (was: Re: compileIt for revolution?) Hi Christian, Le 24 juin 05 ? 10:21, Langers Christian a ?crit : > Could you, please, give us (newbies/intermediate scriptesr) some > examples of fast/slow script code ? They would be too many :-) In fact, the problem is often more an architecture issue than a simple code issue. But here is one tiny trivial example among thousands to give you some clues: on CheckList repeat with i = 1 to the number of lines of fld "List1" set the itemDel to tab put item 2 of line i of fld "List1" & cr after fld "List2" end repeat end CheckList Main errors in the above 4 lines are: manipulate data directly from a field (a lot of work for the engine) use the "repeat with i" form slower than the "repeat for each" form (especially noticeable with long lists) force a screen redraw at each repetition (that's the must for slowing down) set the itemDel unnecessarily at each repetition The result with 1000 lines: more than 13 seconds... Better code: on CheckList local tList, tLine, tNewList ----- put fld "List1" into tList set the itemDel to tab repeat for each line tLine in tList put item 2 of tLine & cr after tNewList end repeat put tNewList into fld "List2" end CheckList manipulate data into a variable use the "repeat for each" form use one screen redraw only set the itemDel only when needed The result with 1000 lines: less than 20 milliseconds! 650 times faster... Keep in mind that to answer correctly your request, this post should be a 300 pages book :-) May be Dan wrote it? Best Regards from Paris, Eric Chatonet. ---------------------------------------------------------------- So Smart Software For institutions, companies and associations Built-to-order applications: management, multimedia, internet, etc. Windows, Mac OS and Linux... With the French touch Free plugins and tutorials on my website ---------------------------------------------------------------- Web site http://www.sosmartsoftware.com/ Email eric.chatonet at sosmartsoftware.com/ Phone 33 (0)1 43 31 77 62 Mobile 33 (0)6 20 74 50 86 ---------------------------------------------------------------- _______________________________________________ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution at lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution From jacque at hyperactivesw.com Fri Jun 24 14:43:23 2005 From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay) Date: Fri, 24 Jun 2005 13:43:23 -0500 Subject: Fast/slow code example In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <42BC544B.4040702@hyperactivesw.com> On 6/24/05 12:41 PM, Judy Perry wrote: > Well, _my_ understanding of the online scripting conferences is that they > are intended towards newbies; thus they are more about basic functionality > and how-to use Rev as opposed to code optimization. > > Am I wrong Jacque? No, you are right. The scripting conference stacks aim to provide the basic introductory information that isn't easily pieced together from the documentation. The docs are extremely good, and everything is there (though scattered in various places,) but newcomers were saying they wanted a general overview of what Revolution and scripting are all about. Our goal is to give them a mental picture of how it all fits together. If enthusiasm remains high and attendance remains good, then I may decide to do an intermediate series next. This would include topics that are more advanced, and could very well include some "tips" topics such as script optimization. -- Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com From emilio at ualberta.ca Fri Jun 24 14:45:43 2005 From: emilio at ualberta.ca (Emilio Gagliardi) Date: Fri, 24 Jun 2005 12:45:43 -0600 Subject: set defaultFolder to non-existent folder behavior Message-ID: Hi all, here is an interesting one I thought I'd pass along to see if anyone has encountered this before. In the documentation for defaultFolder it says that if you set the defaultFolder to a folder that can't be opened it returns "can't open directory". So i have some code that mounts a volume from a networked computer to move some files across the network. I created a function to check if the network computer is, in fact, mounted. The function works correctly when the drive is mounted in that result () is empty. Now, to test my code, I unmounted the volume through the Finder(eject) and disconnected the network cable from the computer. But when I ran the code a second time, result() still came back empty. That is, in the second attempt I set the defaultFolder to /Volumes/MountedDrive/Folder/ when it should not be possible, because there wasn't even a physical connection. Whats interesting, is that i opened the console and listed the drives available in /Volumes/ and sure enough "MountedDrive" was listed despite the fact that it wasn't listed in the Finder. I even rebooted with no network cable and "MountedDrive" still appeared in / Volumes/. So I tried one last thing, if the defaultFolder was truly set to "MountedFolder" then my file moving code should work, right? Wrong. That code threw an error and failed as you would expect since there was no connection! Does anyone know why this is? Is there some period of time that old connections are retained in a lookup table b4 being removed? I'd really like a solid mechanism to ensure that the drive is mounted, and the above does not seem to provide that. Cheers, Emilio From jbondy at sover.net Fri Jun 24 15:07:04 2005 From: jbondy at sover.net (Jon) Date: Fri, 24 Jun 2005 15:07:04 -0400 Subject: is within ... polygon shape? In-Reply-To: <64878EF567131D4596246171F75FD4A946A2F3@m-epo-1.epo.cdc.gov> References: <64878EF567131D4596246171F75FD4A946A2F3@m-epo-1.epo.cdc.gov> Message-ID: <42BC59D8.9050100@sover.net> Way off topic. I think it is "piqued my interest". Probably a French derivation. C'est vrai? Jon Lynch, Jonathan wrote: >Good stuff... > >I was not the original asker for this - I just chimed in because it >peaked my interest. > >Cheers, > >J > >-----Original Message----- >From: use-revolution-bounces at lists.runrev.com >[mailto:use-revolution-bounces at lists.runrev.com] On Behalf Of Scott >Rossi >Sent: Friday, June 24, 2005 1:23 PM >To: How to use Revolution >Subject: Re: is within ... polygon shape? > >Recently, Jim Hurley wrote: > > > >>I don't understand what you mean when you say it fails with large >> >> >polygons. > > >>In the stack below, it doesn't seem to make any difference how large >>the polygons are. I can't image why Rev would fail to recognize when >>a point is within a polygon. >> >>go stack url >> >> >"http://home.infostations.net/jhurley/CollidingPolygons.rev" > >Because on my end I tried: > > if firstWithinSecond("mypoly1","mypoly2") *and* ... > >instead of: > > if firstWithinSecond("mypoly1","mypoly2") *or* > >Replacing "and" with "or" makes your routine work as expected (I should >have >known something was up on my end being the math guru that you are). > >So Jonathan, there you are: two routines that allow you to test >intersection >with images or polygons. > >Regards, > >Scott Rossi >Creative Director >Tactile Media, Multimedia & Design >----- >E: scott at tactilemedia.com >W: http://www.tactilemedia.com > >_______________________________________________ >use-revolution mailing list >use-revolution at lists.runrev.com >Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >subscription preferences: >http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution > > >_______________________________________________ >use-revolution mailing list >use-revolution at lists.runrev.com >Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: >http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution > > > > From bnz2 at cdc.gov Fri Jun 24 15:09:23 2005 From: bnz2 at cdc.gov (Lynch, Jonathan) Date: Fri, 24 Jun 2005 15:09:23 -0400 Subject: is within ... polygon shape? Message-ID: <64878EF567131D4596246171F75FD4A946A2F8@m-epo-1.epo.cdc.gov> Indeed you are correct - and I am a copy editor! How embarrassing. -----Original Message----- From: use-revolution-bounces at lists.runrev.com [mailto:use-revolution-bounces at lists.runrev.com] On Behalf Of Jon Sent: Friday, June 24, 2005 3:07 PM To: How to use Revolution Subject: Re: is within ... polygon shape? Way off topic. I think it is "piqued my interest". Probably a French derivation. C'est vrai? Jon Lynch, Jonathan wrote: >Good stuff... > >I was not the original asker for this - I just chimed in because it >peaked my interest. > >Cheers, > >J > >-----Original Message----- >From: use-revolution-bounces at lists.runrev.com >[mailto:use-revolution-bounces at lists.runrev.com] On Behalf Of Scott >Rossi >Sent: Friday, June 24, 2005 1:23 PM >To: How to use Revolution >Subject: Re: is within ... polygon shape? > >Recently, Jim Hurley wrote: > > > >>I don't understand what you mean when you say it fails with large >> >> >polygons. > > >>In the stack below, it doesn't seem to make any difference how large >>the polygons are. I can't image why Rev would fail to recognize when >>a point is within a polygon. >> >>go stack url >> >> >"http://home.infostations.net/jhurley/CollidingPolygons.rev" > >Because on my end I tried: > > if firstWithinSecond("mypoly1","mypoly2") *and* ... > >instead of: > > if firstWithinSecond("mypoly1","mypoly2") *or* > >Replacing "and" with "or" makes your routine work as expected (I should >have >known something was up on my end being the math guru that you are). > >So Jonathan, there you are: two routines that allow you to test >intersection >with images or polygons. > >Regards, > >Scott Rossi >Creative Director >Tactile Media, Multimedia & Design >----- >E: scott at tactilemedia.com >W: http://www.tactilemedia.com > >_______________________________________________ >use-revolution mailing list >use-revolution at lists.runrev.com >Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >subscription preferences: >http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution > > >_______________________________________________ >use-revolution mailing list >use-revolution at lists.runrev.com >Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: >http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution > > > > _______________________________________________ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution at lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution From dsc at swcp.com Fri Jun 24 15:09:53 2005 From: dsc at swcp.com (Dar Scott) Date: Fri, 24 Jun 2005 13:09:53 -0600 Subject: Fast/slow code example (was: Re: compileIt for revolution?) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Jun 24, 2005, at 12:42 PM, Jim Bufalini wrote: > However, the "repeat with i =" form being slower than the "repeat for > each" > was news to me! Upon reflection, you might have wondered about that. The key is that the first uses 'line i of x' in the loop. The length of time to get this value increases with i. Normally, values are simply sequences of characters and values with multiple lines are simply values that contain some line-delimiter characters (coded the same as ASCII LF). Though it is possible that some internal optimization breaks these up into structured data or a line-index table is cached, it is reasonable to suspect that this is not the case. If there is no optimization to finding line n, then all characters form the start of the string to line n must be searched. It is possible that some compiler optimization would look for line n in loops and convert, but our first assumption should be that it probably doesn't. We might assume that 'for each' does not have this limitation. We might assume that 'for each' keeps one or more hidden character indexes in managing the loop. Given such suspicions we might try some timing or ask on the list. This does not currently apply to characters; 'char n of s' executes in constant time. Even so... We all are sometimes surprised by things that should jump out. I am. It should be mentioned in the docs. (And probably is and I don't know where.) Dar -- ********************************************** DSC (Dar Scott Consulting & Dar's Lab) http://www.swcp.com/dsc/ Programming and software ********************************************** From see3d at writeme.com Fri Jun 24 15:14:57 2005 From: see3d at writeme.com (Dennis Brown) Date: Fri, 24 Jun 2005 15:14:57 -0400 Subject: the := operator (affectation In-Reply-To: References: <1119521638.42ba8b6699019@staffmail.ed.ac.uk> <42BAE906.6050502@fourthworld.com> <02BAB77F-922D-4777-AF6B-B218390DAFE5@writeme.com> <0c803bc64d5aa6c05097f3715c301ea2@swcp.com> <16635F34-8111-4431-BF62-CD097969D938@writeme.com> <3FF1186D-CDFA-443D-88BD-18A2FB93D85E@consensustech.com> <83CC6FF8-3FA7-44FB-AB13-9EDE208D2A79@writeme.com> Message-ID: <95AFE073-C27E-49FD-929E-25A28B621CBB@writeme.com> >> So in Transcript left assignment might be better stated using the >> familiar syntax: set var to x >> The get command becomes the shortcut equivelent of: set it to >> >> So you see Jim, now I get it! >> > Or,,, get is a shortcut for "put the propX into it"... the set - > put difference still rears its head If the get syntax is to be a shortcut for "put x into it", then "get x" is really "put x" with an implied "into it". That would make "get" and "put" equivalent. which they are not. Get implies receiving or taking, while put implies sending away. That is why I can only think of the get command as a left assignment --I'm going to go over there and grab the value from the expression to my right. Makes it more like a function call, or a handler. I guess some clever programming could create the get command if it did not already exist. >> I have always been bothered by the left right reversal between >> setting parameters (just another type of container), and putting >> into variables. I have mistyped setting the parameter many times >> using the form: put x into the parameter of y. The syntax is not >> ambiguous as far as I can tell. Perhaps both set and put syntaxes >> should be regularized to allow either, and relegate parameters to >> the ordinary family of containers. At least allow the setting of >> variables even if putting into parameters is kept exclusive. >> >> Comments? >> > When phrased this way, the left - right assignment question > becomes one, not of ":=", "=>", etc. but rather........ Why can't > I "set a variable to x?" and why can't I "put something into a > property?" .. that's simple enough for even me to get ;-{) > > Off the top of my head there are significant differences between > variables and properties: persistence (properties stay there when > you shut down), scope (you can access any property from anywhere > whereas variables must be explicitly defined as global and then are > available only if the stack is running and has assigned them a > value) and messaging (objects can respond to a change in their > properties (setProp & getProp)). Is that enough to justify a syntax > change for addressing them.... Hmmmm? Don't forget, you can also put things into fields. > It may be that last item that is key. > "Set" sends a message to an object.... the one with the property... > and that object can react to that message appropriately with > setProp/getProp > "Put" doesn't send a message anywhere... well.. execpt for the fact > that the object responds to a "put the propX into var" anyway with > a "call" to getProp > So why couldn't an object respond to a "put var into the propX" > with the setProp structure... it could...... > So maybe it doesn't matter? Am I coming around to a different > perspective? > > Of course.. none of this has to anything to do with assignment > operators... That's right, Transcript does not have any assignment "operators". It only has assignment commands. Introducing an assignment "operator" is inconsistent. There I said it. That leaves us with the only reasonable option of a left assignment command. Set and put are already defined in a a way that the compiler could translate them to the appropriate low level codes. Messages would be sent when accessing properties, and not for variables. If set must be the purview of properties only, then we would need a different word, but I can' t think of a good one off hand --nor a good reason to have one. Dennis From jerry at daniels-mara.com Fri Jun 24 15:15:49 2005 From: jerry at daniels-mara.com (Jerry Daniels) Date: Fri, 24 Jun 2005 14:15:49 -0500 Subject: compileIt for revolution? In-Reply-To: <90.606709a5.2fec94d9@aol.com> References: <90.606709a5.2fec94d9@aol.com> Message-ID: <3b8d8df6aa6265b093ef9e41ce77a167@daniels-mara.com> Paul, My thoughts pretty much mirror your own, Paul. First step is environment independent code for parsing, arrays, calculations. No timeline or cost on this yet. Still seeing who's interested. -JD On Jun 23, 2005, at 5:42 PM, SimPLsol at aol.com wrote: > Jerry, > Assuming there is sufficient interest what is the first step, and > what > would THAT cost? > I'm thinking that the initial ScriptCompiler (or some better name) > would just > turn Transcript into machine code. This would be of interest to me > (hopefully > others) who want to put guarded code in places other than the > standalone (for > example a proprietary calculation in an order processing stack - where > all > the other code is accessible). > The next step might be array processing or tool box calls or???? > These > could be built later and sold separately; for example ScriptCompiler I, > ScriptCompiler II, etc. > Paul Looney > _______________________________________________ > use-revolution mailing list > use-revolution at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution > From jerry at daniels-mara.com Fri Jun 24 15:17:59 2005 From: jerry at daniels-mara.com (Jerry Daniels) Date: Fri, 24 Jun 2005 14:17:59 -0500 Subject: compileIt for revolution? In-Reply-To: References: <20050622170404.76336.qmail@web51107.mail.yahoo.com> <5D2B36D7-6FB4-40B6-8BE5-3D5BE47F9C22@danshafer.com> <6.2.1.2.1.20050623062308.01f295b0@pop3.pon.net> Message-ID: <70b2f83b05ce89065405b139046d3876@daniels-mara.com> Dan, I thought Tom Pittman did a very good job of maintaining the purity of HyperTalk when he did CompileIt! Any future efforts could stand on his shoulders in that regard. -JD On Jun 23, 2005, at 7:26 PM, Dan Shafer wrote: > If you can write externals in Transcript syntax and NOT over-extend > the language to accommodate this demand, I don't have an issue. But > that is not generally the case. When people talk about writing > externals they generally (in my experience at least) mean they want to > make the tool do something its built-in language does not inherently > know how to do. There is in that desire a strong implication of adding > features to the language that I believe will ultimately corrupt it to > the point of not being accessible to mere mortals. > > It's what I call the Javazation of Transcript. If you have a need for > something in a program that Transcript simply can't do and if the > right way to solve that problem is with an external, then it seems to > me you should be willing to move outside the boundaries of the > language to do that thing, whatever it is. (These multi-dimensional > array manipulations, e.g., can apparently not be done satisfactorily > in Transcript.) > > I'm *always* going to come down on the side of keeping the language as > simple as possible. In my opinion, it is already too burdened with > baggage that is of use to a tiny fraction of its users in order to > accommodate a few people with specific programming needs. As it > becomes more complex -- even if those complexities are posited as > "optional alternatives" -- it becomes more and more impenetrable to > those who do not have a computer science background or formal computer > training. Those folks already have enough languages to pick from. I > strongly desire for this one to escape the clutches of the Programming > Priesthood. > > On Jun 23, 2005, at 6:35 AM, Rob Cozens wrote: > >> Why would any Transcript scriptor want to write externals in C or >> Pascal if she could use Transcript syntax instead? >> > > > > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ > Dan Shafer, Revolution Consultant and Author > http://www.shafermedia.com > Get my book, "Revolution: Software at the Speed of Thought" > From http://www.shafermedia.com/revolutionbooks.html > > > > > _______________________________________________ > use-revolution mailing list > use-revolution at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution > From bvg at mac.com Fri Jun 24 15:27:33 2005 From: bvg at mac.com (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Bj=F6rnke_von_Gierke?=) Date: Fri, 24 Jun 2005 21:27:33 +0200 Subject: Contest Results now! Message-ID: Hi all To celebrate, we will announce the winners of the contest and discuss the entries, on a world-wide ChatRev session now! The winners will be invited to talk about their stack and to explain the approach to their solution. The whole event will last one hour at most. The three best stacks of this challenge will be made available on the ChatRev Coding Contest website, shortly after the event. The "Advanced Challenge" continues until 11th July and the "Impossible Challenge" until 8th August. Make sure to submit your solutions to each of the challenges in time, to win one of the wonderful prizes. To learn more about the Coding Contest, go to: If you need to get a copy of ChatRev, go to: Everyone join us on ChatRev! Warmest regards, The CCC judges, Bj?rnke Wouter Chipp Mark Ro -- http://contest.wecode.org Now running: the first ChatRev coding contest! sponsors: Altuit Andre Garzia Fourth World Karl Becker Runtime Revolution TidBITS in cooperation with eHUG From mwieder at ahsoftware.net Fri Jun 24 15:31:11 2005 From: mwieder at ahsoftware.net (Mark Wieder) Date: Fri, 24 Jun 2005 12:31:11 -0700 Subject: Sucess compiling Alex Tweedly DLL! In-Reply-To: <20050624182135.70633.qmail@web40505.mail.yahoo.com> References: <20050624182135.70633.qmail@web40505.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <15717521865.20050624123111@ahsoftware.net> Alejandro- Friday, June 24, 2005, 11:21:30 AM, you wrote: AT> now, while using the same recipe to compile AT> the external from the sdk, i get a lot of AT> warnings and linker errors about a long list AT> of similar undeclared objects AT> like: "SelectObject at 8" That's a pretty bizarre error message. Which example are you trying to compile? -- -Mark Wieder mwieder at ahsoftware.net From ambassador at fourthworld.com Fri Jun 24 15:30:01 2005 From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin) Date: Fri, 24 Jun 2005 12:30:01 -0700 Subject: compileIt for revolution? In-Reply-To: <70b2f83b05ce89065405b139046d3876@daniels-mara.com> References: <20050622170404.76336.qmail@web51107.mail.yahoo.com> <5D2B36D7-6FB4-40B6-8BE5-3D5BE47F9C22@danshafer.com> <6.2.1.2.1.20050623062308.01f295b0@pop3.pon.net> <70b2f83b05ce89065405b139046d3876@daniels-mara.com> Message-ID: <42BC5F39.80506@fourthworld.com> Jerry Daniels wrote: > I thought Tom Pittman did a very good job of maintaining the purity of > HyperTalk when he did CompileIt! Any future efforts could stand on his > shoulders in that regard. Just get an interface more like Mark Hanrek's please. :) So much faster, so much simpler.... -- Richard Gaskin Managing Editor, revJournal _______________________________________________________ Rev tips, tutorials and more: http://www.revJournal.com From jhurley at infostations.com Fri Jun 24 15:33:29 2005 From: jhurley at infostations.com (Jim Hurley) Date: Fri, 24 Jun 2005 12:33:29 -0700 Subject: is within ... polygon shape? In-Reply-To: <20050624180204.3830793011D@mail.runrev.com> References: <20050624180204.3830793011D@mail.runrev.com> Message-ID: > >Message: 12 >Date: Fri, 24 Jun 2005 10:49:17 -0700 (PDT) >From: Judy Perry >Subject: Re: is within ... polygon shape? >To: How to use Revolution >Message-ID: > >Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII > >bummer... > >I was hoping that you'd found a solution to my need for the sort of >irregularly-shaped buttons that an old HC external provided. > >Drats! > >Judy Judy, Take a look at: go stack url "http://home.infostations.net/jhurley/CollidingPolygons.rev" Hope you all make it home all right. I stayed over another day so that I could take in the aquarium. Jim From capellan2000 at yahoo.com Fri Jun 24 15:44:23 2005 From: capellan2000 at yahoo.com (Alejandro Tejada) Date: Fri, 24 Jun 2005 12:44:23 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Sucess compiling Alex Tweedly DLL! In-Reply-To: <20050624180204.3830793011D@mail.runrev.com> Message-ID: <20050624194423.5021.qmail@web40524.mail.yahoo.com> on Fri, 24 Jun 2005 Klaus Major wrote: > ehm, sorry, but looks like i missed the part with > the explanation of what the wonderful external > actually does? > Sorry for my ignorance... It's a functional starting point for developing external using the free compiler named "Dev-C++" (Bloodshed). The first, i think. When you get sucess compiling one external with Dev C++, then you could try to compile the source code of other externals provided by developers in this list. After that, if you have sucess, it's all up to you and your time for experiments... ;-) al Visit my site: http://www.geocities.com/capellan2000/ ____________________________________________________ Yahoo! Sports Rekindle the Rivalries. Sign up for Fantasy Football http://football.fantasysports.yahoo.com From ridge11103 at btinternet.com Fri Jun 24 15:46:28 2005 From: ridge11103 at btinternet.com (John Ridge) Date: Fri, 24 Jun 2005 20:46:28 +0100 Subject: the := operator (affectation In-Reply-To: Message-ID: on 24/6/05 7:00 pm, Jim MacConnell wrote : What a difference a few quotes make. I can hear your "voice" now and understand where you were headed. Fine example of dangers of interpreting email too literally.... which I am prone to do when tired. What appeared to be sarcastic and cynical and rude was in fact clever example... ******************** This is really great. I was getting worried about you guys... Thanks, Jim! -- From bvg at mac.com Fri Jun 24 15:54:00 2005 From: bvg at mac.com (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Bj=F6rnke_von_Gierke?=) Date: Fri, 24 Jun 2005 21:54:00 +0200 Subject: Winner nr. 3 of the CCC Message-ID: <7771f8025e1ec3bee103df3825d005c3@mac.com> This is the first mail of 3, one for each winner. Each Judge voted between 1 and 10 where 10 is the best. Alex had the following votes: Originality: 26 Style: 33 FunFactor: 30 Readability: 33 All added up: 122 His stack can be opened by copying this into the message box: go stack url "http://contest.wecode.org/alex_tweedly.rev" Short descritpion of Alex Tweedly's stack by Wouter: All stacks should have been judged equal overall, but as there were no "the same prizes" a differentiation had to be made. Style Though none of the contestants really applied for "looks", this one is visually the most pleasing of them all. Originality In this case the originality lies exactly in the minimum lines of code to make the clock tick, for wich Alex used 7, which is quite an achievement. Fun The code is enticing for even less lines, making the fingers itch... Burried inside there is a 12 hourly one hour special event... a delight for time hunter or watch watcher. Readability Clear as water for the mathematical mind. Final Remark This stack is an excellent example of how one can achieve the most with a minimal of controls and code. Well done. -- http://contest.wecode.org Now running: the first ChatRev coding contest! sponsors: Altuit Andre Garzia Fourth World Karl Becker Runtime Revolution TidBITS in cooperation with eHUG From capellan2000 at yahoo.com Fri Jun 24 16:11:41 2005 From: capellan2000 at yahoo.com (Alejandro Tejada) Date: Fri, 24 Jun 2005 13:11:41 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Sucess compiling Alex Tweedly DLL! Message-ID: <20050624201141.53743.qmail@web40529.mail.yahoo.com> Hi Mark!, Mark Wieder wrote: AT> now, while using the same recipe to compile AT> the external from the sdk, i get a lot of AT> warnings and linker errors about a long list AT> of similar undeclared objects AT> like: "SelectObject at 8" >That's a pretty bizarre error message. > Which example are you trying to compile? notice Mark, the at symbol (the symbol over the key with the number 2) is converted in the "at" word in these mails! i'm applying the instructions of the readme.rtf to compile the "external.dll" that is inside the SDK externals and the instructions provided by Alex to compile his external. After this message is the compile log, create by Dev-C++ while compiling this external. Obviusly, i'm missing many things... Could you spot the errors? Better yet. Could you post a recipe to compile this dll using Dev-C++ (Bloodshed)? Thanks in advance. :-) al compile log while creating "external.dll" within Dev-C++ (latest downloable version) --------------------------------------------- Compiler: Default compiler Building Makefile: "C:\WINDOWS\Desktop\ExternalSDK\Makefile.win" Executing make... make.exe -f "C:\WINDOWS\Desktop\ExternalSDK\Makefile.win" all dllwrap.exe --output-def libexternal.def --implib libexternal.a external.o XCmdGlue.o -L"C:/DEV-CPP/lib" -L"C:/WINDOWS/Desktop/ExternalSDK" --no-export-all-symbols --add-stdcall-alias --def external.def -o external.dll external.o(.text+0x137e):external.c: undefined reference to `SelectObject at 8' external.o(.text+0x13f9):external.c: undefined reference to `SelectObject at 8' external.o(.text+0x1408):external.c: undefined reference to `GetStockObject at 4' external.o(.text+0x141c):external.c: undefined reference to `SelectObject at 8' external.o(.text+0x1437):external.c: undefined reference to `SelectObject at 8' external.o(.text+0x1446):external.c: undefined reference to `GetStockObject at 4' external.o(.text+0x145a):external.c: undefined reference to `SelectObject at 8' external.o(.text+0x149a):external.c: undefined reference to `Rectangle at 20' external.o(.text+0x14b3):external.c: undefined reference to `SelectObject at 8' external.o(.text+0x14cc):external.c: undefined reference to `SelectObject at 8' external.o(.text+0x15aa):external.c: undefined reference to `CreateCompatibleDC at 4' external.o(.text+0x15cb):external.c: undefined reference to `CreateCompatibleBitmap at 12' external.o(.text+0x1603):external.c: undefined reference to `CreateSolidBrush at 4' external.o(.text+0x1617):external.c: undefined reference to `CreateSolidBrush at 4' external.o(.text+0x1635):external.c: undefined reference to `SelectObject at 8' external.o(.text+0x1653):external.c: undefined reference to `SelectObject at 8' external.o(.text+0x1686):external.c: undefined reference to `Rectangle at 20' external.o(.text+0x16a5):external.c: undefined reference to `SelectObject at 8' external.o(.text+0x16be):external.c: undefined reference to `SelectObject at 8' external.o(.text+0x1769):external.c: undefined reference to `SelectObject at 8' external.o(.text+0x1778):external.c: undefined reference to `GetStockObject at 4' external.o(.text+0x178c):external.c: undefined reference to `SelectObject at 8' external.o(.text+0x17a5):external.c: undefined reference to `SelectObject at 8' external.o(.text+0x17e5):external.c: undefined reference to `Rectangle at 20' external.o(.text+0x17fe):external.c: undefined reference to `SelectObject at 8' external.o(.text+0x1817):external.c: undefined reference to `SelectObject at 8' external.o(.text+0x18ab):external.c: undefined reference to `DeleteObject at 4' external.o(.text+0x18c5):external.c: undefined reference to `DeleteObject at 4' external.o(.text+0x18d5):external.c: undefined reference to `DeleteObject at 4' external.o(.text+0x18e5):external.c: undefined reference to `DeleteDC at 4' collect2: ld returned 1 exit status C:\DEV-CPP\BIN\DLLWRAP.EXE: C:\DEV-CPP\BIN\gcc exited with status 1 Execution terminated -------------------------------------- end of compile log to create "external.dll" with Dev-C++. Visit my site: http://www.geocities.com/capellan2000/ ____________________________________________________ Yahoo! Sports Rekindle the Rivalries. Sign up for Fantasy Football http://football.fantasysports.yahoo.com From gandalf at doctorTimothyMiller.com Fri Jun 24 16:12:14 2005 From: gandalf at doctorTimothyMiller.com (Timothy Miller) Date: Fri, 24 Jun 2005 13:12:14 -0700 Subject: files, names and files Message-ID: Good afternoon, I feel kind of bad about asking so many semi-newbie questions, but I'm not quite sure how else to find stuff out. The onboard documentation is sometimes helpful. Often it's sparse and/or cryptic, it seems to me. I hope that improves. I have Dan Shafer's book. Sometimes it helps, of course, but not always. I wonder if a separate list for novices has been considered. Much of the discussion here is way over my head. Are there other good resources I'm overlooking? But that's not why I called. Would someone be so kind as to explain the technical and practical distinctions between --The Name of a stack --The Title of a stack --The name of the stack as it appears on the hard disk --The name of a stack specified in the stackfiles --The filename of a stack specified in the stackfiles (I have the general idea about filenames as in "get the filename of stack "abc" So that explanation might not be needed.) It's probably not all that hard, *after* you understand it. *Before* one understands it, it's rather perplexing. (I don't think we're in hyperCard anymore, Toto.) (BTW, as far as I can tell, the stackFiles are a multi-line property, which the user can set or get by script or with the multi-line message box. Correct?) This came up because I wanted to open a stack, and an archived version of the same stack (in another folder) at the same time, just to look -- not for the sake of scripting interaction between the two. Silly me. I thought it would suffice just to alter the name of the archived stack as it appears on the hard disk. That clearly doesn't work. Presumably, if I understand the things I asked about above, I'll figure out how to do that when I need to. If there's a quick trick to this, I'd like to know it. (Both stacks have the same stackfiles. I'd guess I'll have to modify the stackfiles in the archived stack to open it at the same time as the other.) Thanks in advance, again, Tim Miller From ambassador at fourthworld.com Fri Jun 24 16:16:30 2005 From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin) Date: Fri, 24 Jun 2005 13:16:30 -0700 Subject: Sucess compiling Alex Tweedly DLL! In-Reply-To: <20050624201141.53743.qmail@web40529.mail.yahoo.com> References: <20050624201141.53743.qmail@web40529.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <42BC6A1E.4090901@fourthworld.com> Once the nuances of correcting for the current funky externals package are identified, would it be worth the effort to make a Rev tool to serve as a simple specialized IDE for making externals? C is just text, as are the make files, and GCC can be run with the shell function, yes? My hunch is we could make quite a tidy package that would greatly simplify the mechanics of making Rev externals, and never have to leave Rev to do it. Am I dreaming? -- Richard Gaskin Fourth World Media Corporation ___________________________________________________________ Ambassador at FourthWorld.com http://www.FourthWorld.com From jperryl at ecs.fullerton.edu Fri Jun 24 16:23:12 2005 From: jperryl at ecs.fullerton.edu (Judy Perry) Date: Fri, 24 Jun 2005 13:23:12 -0700 (PDT) Subject: is within ... polygon shape? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Jim, Thanks! I'll have another look/try. To put this into context, My original need grew out of an attempt to demo (unsuccessfully, as it turned out) using Rev to create a game of moving objects on a map/background. The map would need to scroll as the moving character image hit the edges of the window. Check. Got that. Got the critter moving. Check. Got that. But where I had problems (there were two) was in (1) doing collision detection. This was because the students wanted to use an orthoscopic map. Imagine using X,Y coords but they're skewed by 45 degrees. This meant having to use irregularly-shaped targets. Hence my first problem. (2) It wasn't enough to do collision detection; I needed a coorection factor for where the critter had to _go around_ an obstacle (that is: detect collision and reset position to just before collision to alert the player that the critter need to go around the obstacle). It was especially the second that prompted somebody to tell me to go read an algorithm book. Like I said, I just gave up there. Maybe I'll pester you if I run into obstacles myself ;-) Thanks, Judy On Fri, 24 Jun 2005, Jim Hurley wrote: > > > >Message: 12 > >Date: Fri, 24 Jun 2005 10:49:17 -0700 (PDT) > >From: Judy Perry > >Subject: Re: is within ... polygon shape? > >To: How to use Revolution > >Message-ID: > > > >Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII > > > >bummer... > > > >I was hoping that you'd found a solution to my need for the sort of > >irregularly-shaped buttons that an old HC external provided. > > > >Drats! > > > >Judy > > > > Judy, > > Take a look at: > > go stack url "http://home.infostations.net/jhurley/CollidingPolygons.rev" > > Hope you all make it home all right. I stayed over another day so > that I could take in the aquarium. > > Jim > _______________________________________________ > use-revolution mailing list > use-revolution at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution > From bvg at mac.com Fri Jun 24 16:27:31 2005 From: bvg at mac.com (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Bj=F6rnke_von_Gierke?=) Date: Fri, 24 Jun 2005 22:27:31 +0200 Subject: Winner nr. 2 of the CCC Message-ID: <161db96e6cab2185cdeb31284fe89a42@mac.com> Dear Revolution Community! In case you haven't joined us at ChatRev and also for later review, we'd like to announce the second place in the ChatRev Coding Contest: It goes to for Malte Brill. We discuss each of the categories as defined in the rules for the simple challenge. If you would like to have a look at the stack that won the second prize, please type the following line in your message box: go stack url "http://contest.wecode.org/malte_brill.rev" Each Judge voted between 1 and 10 where 10 is the best. Malte had the following votes: Originality: 30 Style: 33 FunFactor: 29 Readability: 37 All added up: 129 Ro Nagey had this to say about Malte's stack: Style: Malte did a great job in the presentation of his stack: the formatted text in the top field makes reading the code much easier than a plain text version would have been. The graphics are pleasing. Negatives: the plain 'OK' button, the fact that the stack is resizable but the fields don't adapt and the lack of a 'design' to the stack in terms of color and theme. Originality: This is a great stack that not only meets the rules but also gives an immediate lesson in a great programming idea! Fun: OK, this is not an arcade game, so fun is a relative concept. One aspect that made me smile was guessing that he probably developed this for other work, realized that it was less than 10 lines, and is sharing it with us! And, I liked the fact that he points out the comments are there to pad it out to 10 lines. Readability: Excellent, again, the formatted text is a factor as is the horizontal scrolling bar. The only thing I would have added is a comment about the second line of his script. Perhaps he will explain that tonight. Final thoughts: This is the kind of entry that not only wins on its own merits, it has given me all sorts of ideas of how to improve my own work in the future - the best of both worlds. Best regards, The ChatRev Coding Contest Judges -- http://contest.wecode.org Now running: the first ChatRev coding contest! sponsors: Altuit Andre Garzia Fourth World Karl Becker Runtime Revolution TidBITS in cooperation with eHUG From ambassador at fourthworld.com Fri Jun 24 16:30:59 2005 From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin) Date: Fri, 24 Jun 2005 13:30:59 -0700 Subject: files, names and files In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <42BC6D83.7070202@fourthworld.com> Timothy Miller wrote: > Are there other good resources I'm overlooking? First stop: Second: Third: > Would someone be so kind as to explain the technical and practical > distinctions between > > --The Name of a stack The name property lets you identify any object with a text string. > --The Title of a stack This governs what's displayed in the stack window's title bar; if empty it displays the name. > --The name of the stack as it appears on the hard disk This is simply the name of the stackfile that contains your mainstack and any substacks. It is normally independent of the name of any stack it contains, but if you want to display the file name in the title bar you can use this: on preOpenStack set the itemdelimiter to "/" get last item of the effective filename of this stack set the title of this stack to it pass preOpenStack end preOpenStacl > --The name of a stack specified in the stackfiles Rev stacks can be referenced by their short name, providing Rev knows where they are. Any stacks contained in the stack file your scripts are in can be found easily, but what about stack in other files? That's where the stackFiles property comes in: The stackFiles property identifies which files specific stacks can be found. The property is a return-delimited list in which each line contains two elements separated by commas: , e.g.: MyAbout,/components/myAppResources.rev MySaveDialog,/components/myAppResources.rev This tells Rev that anytime your scripts refer to "MyAbout" or "MySaveDialog" it can find those in the stackfile named "myAppResourcs.rev" in a folder named "components". Note that the filename is relative to the filename of the stack whose stackFiles property you're setting, so it works much like HTML in allowing relative paths. You can use a full path, but of course if you move your files to another machine the full path may not be the same. Once you have a stack with the stackfiles set as shown, you can open those other stacks easily: modeless "MyAbout" modal "MySaveDialog" -- Richard Gaskin Fourth World Media Corporation ___________________________________________________________ Ambassador at FourthWorld.com http://www.FourthWorld.com From dsc at swcp.com Fri Jun 24 16:46:11 2005 From: dsc at swcp.com (Dar Scott) Date: Fri, 24 Jun 2005 14:46:11 -0600 Subject: Sucess compiling Alex Tweedly DLL! In-Reply-To: <15717521865.20050624123111@ahsoftware.net> References: <20050624182135.70633.qmail@web40505.mail.yahoo.com> <15717521865.20050624123111@ahsoftware.net> Message-ID: <450984d4828cf948bf975a845df544a7@swcp.com> On Jun 24, 2005, at 1:31 PM, Mark Wieder wrote: > AT> warnings and linker errors about a long list > AT> of similar undeclared objects > AT> like: "SelectObject at 8" > > That's a pretty bizarre error message. Which example are you trying to > compile? I'm coming in in the middle of this. This looks similar to a decorated name for the STCCALL calling convention for a function named SelectObject that is called with 8 bytes on the stack, perhaps 2 parameters. The library may have been using some method that overrode the default decoration of the names. Since I jumped in at the middle, I may not have hit upon anything useful. Dar -- ********************************************** DSC (Dar Scott Consulting & Dar's Lab) http://www.swcp.com/dsc/ Programming and software ********************************************** From joel.guillod at net2000.ch Fri Jun 24 16:47:18 2005 From: joel.guillod at net2000.ch (Joel Guillod) Date: Fri, 24 Jun 2005 22:47:18 +0200 Subject: compileIt for revolution? In-Reply-To: <20050622213202.27EF493010C@mail.runrev.com> References: <20050622213202.27EF493010C@mail.runrev.com> Message-ID: <6a5052cf5b3f34b1bc739b96c1b5f662@net2000.ch> > From: Dan Shafer > [...] > Then my second favorite language was Python. The GUI-building tools > for Python are pathetic to non-existent. But the language is powerful > and elegant and extends naturally. If the PythonCard project I was > engaged in before I discovered Revolution had been on a fast track or > complete, odds are I'd have never used Rev. Didn't you know about wxDesigner to generate the Python code for GUI? There is also a very new Boa Constructor upgrade... Yes, Python is lacking for an IDE, i.e. "Integrated" tools for coding and designing GUI! I expect an integrated Python external but as the SDK is so obscure... From devin_asay at byu.edu Fri Jun 24 16:59:45 2005 From: devin_asay at byu.edu (Devin Asay) Date: Fri, 24 Jun 2005 14:59:45 -0600 Subject: files, names and files In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <0ED7B43D-BF5E-4EE3-BCE1-30361B303C5B@byu.edu> I can't add much to Richard's excellent explanations, except to confirm that for me as an ex-HyperCarder the indirect relationship between the name of the stack in the file system and the name property of the stack was confusing for a long while. Once I trained myself to refer to the entity represented in the file system as a "stackfile" and understand it was something different that the entities it contains -- main stacks and substacks -- the whole rev world became a lot clearer to me. In HyperCard there was a one-to-one relationship between the name of the stack and its name in the Finder: you changed one, you changed both. It was simpler, but I've found that Rev's way of handling it gives me freedom HyperCard did not. Regards, Devin Devin Asay Humanities Technology and Research Support Center Brigham Young University From bvg at mac.com Fri Jun 24 17:11:21 2005 From: bvg at mac.com (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Bj=F6rnke_von_Gierke?=) Date: Fri, 24 Jun 2005 23:11:21 +0200 Subject: Winner nr. 1 of the CCC Message-ID: <4f96c47fe50168ef920b546102cb909a@mac.com> Dear Revolution Community: The Winner is Benedikt Seidl's stack! You can look at it by entering this into your message box: go stack url "http://contest.wecode.org/benedikt_seidl.rev" Each Judge voted between 1 and 10 where 10 is the best. Benedikt had the following votes: Originality: 32 Style: 37 FunFactor: 28 Readability: 35 All added up: 132 Mark wrote this about Benedikt's stack: Style Benedikt used the entire stack window and 10 lines of script. By doing so, he utilised all available opportunities. It must be said, though, that the stack itself isn't too attractive, visually, and he used a very small number of objects: one field, one button, and one graphic. He may have come up with an even more impressive solution, if he had used additional objects, though not necessarily. Originality The fractal idea is not new. It is impressive, though, that Benedikt found a way to draw a fractal-like pattern at high speed in only 10 lines of script. The way he uses Revolution's tools to do this is certainly original. Fun True, once you have seen what the stack does, the exercise will not astonish you again. Still, if you see it for the first time, you want to know what's going on and it is certainly is intriguing. We think that the fun is in figuring out how he did it. Readability How did he do it? It is not too easy to find out. Have a look at the scripts, which are very readable, if you are not scared off by some mathematics. Final Remark It is remarkable how well Benedikt sticks to the rules of the contest while really making the most of all available opportunities. We even suspect that he didn't really need that many script lines and added some colour animation just to fill the remaining lines. Congratulations, Benedikt! The CCC Judges -- http://contest.wecode.org Now running: the first ChatRev coding contest! sponsors: Altuit Andre Garzia Fourth World Karl Becker Runtime Revolution TidBITS in cooperation with eHUG From chris at altuit.com Fri Jun 24 17:23:17 2005 From: chris at altuit.com (chris bohnert) Date: Fri, 24 Jun 2005 16:23:17 -0500 Subject: Sucess compiling Alex Tweedly DLL! In-Reply-To: <20050624201141.53743.qmail@web40529.mail.yahoo.com> References: <20050624201141.53743.qmail@web40529.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <42BC79C5.9070400@altuit.com> al, I don't often build externals with "bloodshed", but if i remember correctly you needed to make sure you had the following 1.) -DBUILDING_DLL=1 as a compiler option 2.) --add-stdcall-alias as a linker option (which you have) 3.) Since you're building c code and not c++ you might mess with the --driver-name option to dllwrap something like --driver-name=c 4.) try exporting all the symbols (not good for production) with --export-all-symbols instead of --no-export-all-symbols -- cb Alejandro Tejada wrote: >Hi Mark!, > >Mark Wieder wrote: > >AT> now, while using the same recipe to compile >AT> the external from the sdk, i get a lot of >AT> warnings and linker errors about a long list >AT> of similar undeclared objects >AT> like: "SelectObject at 8" > > > >>That's a pretty bizarre error message. >>Which example are you trying to compile? >> >> > >notice Mark, the at symbol (the symbol over >the key with the number 2) is converted in >the "at" word in these mails! > >i'm applying the instructions of >the readme.rtf to compile the >"external.dll" that is inside the >SDK externals and the instructions >provided by Alex to compile his external. > >After this message is the compile log, >create by Dev-C++ while compiling >this external. Obviusly, i'm missing >many things... Could you spot the errors? > >Better yet. Could you post a recipe to >compile this dll using Dev-C++ (Bloodshed)? > >Thanks in advance. :-) > >al > >compile log while creating "external.dll" >within Dev-C++ (latest downloable version) >--------------------------------------------- >Compiler: Default compiler >Building Makefile: >"C:\WINDOWS\Desktop\ExternalSDK\Makefile.win" >Executing make... >make.exe -f >"C:\WINDOWS\Desktop\ExternalSDK\Makefile.win" all >dllwrap.exe --output-def libexternal.def --implib >libexternal.a external.o XCmdGlue.o >-L"C:/DEV-CPP/lib" -L"C:/WINDOWS/Desktop/ExternalSDK" >--no-export-all-symbols --add-stdcall-alias --def >external.def -o external.dll > >external.o(.text+0x137e):external.c: undefined >reference to `SelectObject at 8' >external.o(.text+0x13f9):external.c: undefined >reference to `SelectObject at 8' >external.o(.text+0x1408):external.c: undefined >reference to `GetStockObject at 4' >external.o(.text+0x141c):external.c: undefined >reference to `SelectObject at 8' >external.o(.text+0x1437):external.c: undefined >reference to `SelectObject at 8' >external.o(.text+0x1446):external.c: undefined >reference to `GetStockObject at 4' >external.o(.text+0x145a):external.c: undefined >reference to `SelectObject at 8' >external.o(.text+0x149a):external.c: undefined >reference to `Rectangle at 20' >external.o(.text+0x14b3):external.c: undefined >reference to `SelectObject at 8' > >external.o(.text+0x14cc):external.c: undefined >reference to `SelectObject at 8' >external.o(.text+0x15aa):external.c: undefined >reference to `CreateCompatibleDC at 4' >external.o(.text+0x15cb):external.c: undefined >reference to `CreateCompatibleBitmap at 12' >external.o(.text+0x1603):external.c: undefined >reference to `CreateSolidBrush at 4' >external.o(.text+0x1617):external.c: undefined >reference to `CreateSolidBrush at 4' >external.o(.text+0x1635):external.c: undefined >reference to `SelectObject at 8' >external.o(.text+0x1653):external.c: undefined >reference to `SelectObject at 8' >external.o(.text+0x1686):external.c: undefined >reference to `Rectangle at 20' >external.o(.text+0x16a5):external.c: undefined >reference to `SelectObject at 8' >external.o(.text+0x16be):external.c: undefined >reference to `SelectObject at 8' >external.o(.text+0x1769):external.c: undefined >reference to `SelectObject at 8' >external.o(.text+0x1778):external.c: undefined >reference to `GetStockObject at 4' >external.o(.text+0x178c):external.c: undefined >reference to `SelectObject at 8' >external.o(.text+0x17a5):external.c: undefined >reference to `SelectObject at 8' >external.o(.text+0x17e5):external.c: undefined >reference to `Rectangle at 20' >external.o(.text+0x17fe):external.c: undefined >reference to `SelectObject at 8' >external.o(.text+0x1817):external.c: undefined >reference to `SelectObject at 8' >external.o(.text+0x18ab):external.c: undefined >reference to `DeleteObject at 4' >external.o(.text+0x18c5):external.c: undefined >reference to `DeleteObject at 4' >external.o(.text+0x18d5):external.c: undefined >reference to `DeleteObject at 4' >external.o(.text+0x18e5):external.c: undefined >reference to `DeleteDC at 4' >collect2: ld returned 1 exit status > >C:\DEV-CPP\BIN\DLLWRAP.EXE: C:\DEV-CPP\BIN\gcc exited >with status 1 > >Execution terminated >-------------------------------------- >end of compile log to create "external.dll" >with Dev-C++. > > > >Visit my site: >http://www.geocities.com/capellan2000/ > > > >____________________________________________________ >Yahoo! Sports >Rekindle the Rivalries. Sign up for Fantasy Football >http://football.fantasysports.yahoo.com >_______________________________________________ >use-revolution mailing list >use-revolution at lists.runrev.com >Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: >http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution > > > > > From Cubist at aol.com Fri Jun 24 17:46:40 2005 From: Cubist at aol.com (Cubist at aol.com) Date: Fri, 24 Jun 2005 17:46:40 EDT Subject: is within ... polygon shape? Message-ID: <1fb.b3e7f07.2fedd940@aol.com> It occurs to me that even tho the "intersect" function works with the bounding rectangle of an object, and not the actual object itself, "intersect" could nonetheless be useful as a sort of initial screen. If "intersect" doesn't think the two objects intersect, well, they *can't* intersect, right? Thus, use "intersect" to winnow out the wheat (stuff that *might* intersect) from the chaff (stuff that *can't* intersect), and then use your *real* intersection-finding function on the wheat. Like so: function WhatIntersectz DaList, DerObject # DerObject is the thing you want to find out what intersects with it # DaList is a return-delimited list of all the objects that *might* intersect with DerObject put "" into NuList repeat for each line LL in DaList if intersect (the rect of LL, the rect of DerObject) then put LL into line (1 + the number of lines in NuList) of NuList end if end repeat put NuList into DaList # now we've got a list of all the objects which *might* intersect # which are the real deal? put "" into NuList repeat for each line LL in DaList if ReallyIntersect (the rect of LL, the rect of DerObject) then put LL into line (1 + the number of lines in NuList) of NuList end if end repeat return NuList end WhatIntersectz "ReallyIntersect" is, of course, a separate handler which takes the actual points of a polygon into account when determining what does or doesn't intersect. What's the point of going thru all this rigamarole in the first place? It depends how fast the "ReallyIntersect" code is, as compared to the "intersect" function. I'm assuming that "ReallyIntersect" is going to be appreciably slower than "intersect", in which case it makes sense to use "ReallyIntersect" as little as possible. Hope this helps... From mwieder at ahsoftware.net Fri Jun 24 17:53:22 2005 From: mwieder at ahsoftware.net (Mark Wieder) Date: Fri, 24 Jun 2005 14:53:22 -0700 Subject: Sucess compiling Alex Tweedly DLL! In-Reply-To: <20050624201141.53743.qmail@web40529.mail.yahoo.com> References: <20050624201141.53743.qmail@web40529.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1426052811.20050624145322@ahsoftware.net> Alejandro- Friday, June 24, 2005, 1:11:41 PM, you wrote: AT> make.exe -f AT> "C:\WINDOWS\Desktop\ExternalSDK\Makefile.win" all AT> dllwrap.exe --output-def libexternal.def --implib AT> libexternal.a external.o XCmdGlue.o AT> -L"C:/DEV-CPP/lib" -L"C:/WINDOWS/Desktop/ExternalSDK" AT> --no-export-all-symbols --add-stdcall-alias --def AT> external.def -o external.dll AT> external.o(.text+0x137e):external.c: undefined AT> reference to `SelectObject at 8' I would look into the makefile. It looks to me like the standard Windows libraries are not getting linked. Are you including them and/or does Bloodshed need you to do this explicitly? Some compilers do this automatically, some need you to specify them yourself. There is probably a linker option for this. ... AT> C:\DEV-CPP\BIN\DLLWRAP.EXE: C:\DEV-CPP\BIN\gcc exited AT> with status 1 Ah... I hadn't realized that Bloodshed C used gcc. -- -Mark Wieder mwieder at ahsoftware.net From harrison at all-auctions.com Fri Jun 24 18:41:17 2005 From: harrison at all-auctions.com (Rick Harrison) Date: Fri, 24 Jun 2005 18:41:17 -0400 Subject: Additive Images In-Reply-To: <42BBB39B.3050100@chipp.com> References: <20050623174410.9BEDC930186@mail.runrev.com> <804C4D01-E44B-11D9-BC41-000A95F0C744@leo.nmc.edu> <7DE14B82-9E3B-4289-A749-61A429DC622C@all-auctions.com> <42BBB39B.3050100@chipp.com> Message-ID: <9C0FEED5-BF15-4C0C-88D5-682BDD9FC669@all-auctions.com> Chipp & Alejandro, Thanks so much for the quick help. I'm not sure I explained well enough what it is that I'm looking to do. I'm not talking about one opaque image on top of another so that parts of the third image overlays the second, and the second one overlays part of the first. I'm also don't think I'm talking about blending the three images so much either. Let's say for example that the pixel at 20,19 on the first image is red with a brightness of 26, and the second image contains the same shade of red at a brightness of 24 at pixel 20,19, and the third image contains blue at pixel 20,19 at a brightness of 34. Adding the data of the first two red pixels should give me a brightness of 50 red and then adding in the blue pixel should make the resulting pixel somewhat purple red with a brightness of 84. At least that's how I'm thinking it would work. Additive images. I still have to look into the stacks more in depth you've provided for me. Thanks again! Rick From harvey.toyama at qlogic.com Fri Jun 24 18:46:29 2005 From: harvey.toyama at qlogic.com (Harvey Toyama) Date: Fri, 24 Jun 2005 15:46:29 -0700 Subject: mysql oddities Message-ID: Be sure to eliminate password/version issues. There was a change from 16-characters to 40-characters. Your new service provider may have a different version installed. You can check the on-line MySQL manual under "old passwords". -- Harvey -- -----Original Message----- From: use-revolution-bounces at lists.runrev.com [mailto:use-revolution-bounces at lists.runrev.com] On Behalf Of Howard Freeman Sent: Friday, June 24, 2005 12:55 AM To: use-revolution at lists.runrev.com Subject: mysql oddities I've been using rev to link up to MySQL for a while but I've just changed my web space supplier and I can't connect to MySQL. I thought that this was their problem but it's stranger than that. If I use the database query builder then the connection is made and I can see the tables and fields and can query the database. When I try to do the same thing in my own stack - and those of other people who use MySQL - I get connection errors. What I'd really like to do is get inside the database query builder to find out what commands it is using to connect to my database. Alternatively, can someone provide some tips about the port variable in the revopendatabase function? I'm just putting the port number as a colon and number immediately after the host url and I'm sure this is right, eg :3337. Is there any other way to write it? Also, I don't want to use the database query manager all the time because I intend to distribute this as a standalone to users of the MySQL database. Thanks Howard _______________________________________________ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution at lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution From webmaster at dreamscapesoftware.com Fri Jun 24 18:55:47 2005 From: webmaster at dreamscapesoftware.com (Derek Bump) Date: Fri, 24 Jun 2005 17:55:47 -0500 Subject: Convolve External Fixed (Was Re: Sucess compiling Alex Tweedly DLL!) In-Reply-To: <450984d4828cf948bf975a845df544a7@swcp.com> References: <20050624182135.70633.qmail@web40505.mail.yahoo.com> <15717521865.20050624123111@ahsoftware.net> <450984d4828cf948bf975a845df544a7@swcp.com> Message-ID: <42BC8F73.9060607@dreamscapesoftware.com> I to have had great success compiling the example DLL provided by Alex Tweedly. Alex's walk through should be included within the SDK. So now that I know how to compile with Bloodshed C++, I was able to fix the Convolve example code that comes within the SDK. It will now successfully handle the new image format that is used within engine's version 2.4.2 and higher. You can download the updated Convolve External, Source Code and Example stack from... http://www.dreamscapesoftware.com/products/convolve3.zip I am still working on it though to try to figure out how to remove the black borders that sometimes appear on the edges of convolved images, but at least now the image is being rendered properly. If someone could compile the code on the Macintosh and Linux side then we would have an all around Convolve external that is much faster than the scripted version. We'll see though! Derek Bump Dreamscape Software _______________________________________________ Compress Photos for the Web with JPEGCompress http://www.dreamscapesoftware.com/ From alex at tweedly.net Fri Jun 24 19:10:18 2005 From: alex at tweedly.net (Alex Tweedly) Date: Sat, 25 Jun 2005 00:10:18 +0100 Subject: is within ... polygon shape? In-Reply-To: References: <20050624180204.3830793011D@mail.runrev.com> Message-ID: <42BC92DA.6070200@tweedly.net> Jim Hurley wrote: > > Take a look at: > > go stack url "http://home.infostations.net/jhurley/CollidingPolygons.rev" > Sorry, Jim, but that doesn't work for all polygons. For example (excuse the ascii drawing ....) 111111111 1 1 1 1 22222222222222222222222 2 2 22222222222222222222222 1 1 111111111 Even for 2 rectangles, it doesn't always work. If I remember correctly, the most effective algorithm for overlap depends on edge intersections (with a special case test for one polygon entirely within the other). Any two polygons that overlap will have at least one case where their edges intersect - though you need to deal with the special cases where the edges touch; you can then test the mid-point of the edges adjacent to the point of touch to determine if they are within or outwith the other polygon (or alternatively, test the points 1 delta away from the point of touch - but then you need to be very careful about precision and rounding errors). And even then, you have some weird corner cases involved in self-reflexive polygons - far less Rev's "invisible edge" polygons which can produce disjoint areas. (Is self-reflexive the right term ? polygons that overlap themselves, like 11111 1 1 111111111111111 1 1 111111111111 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 11111 1 1 1 11111111111 You need to determine whether the points in the self-overlap area are within the polygon or not ... and I can't remember which is the "right" decision, i.e. the one that makes the problem easier. -- Alex Tweedly http://www.tweedly.net -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.323 / Virus Database: 267.8.0/27 - Release Date: 23/06/2005 From capellan2000 at yahoo.com Fri Jun 24 20:13:45 2005 From: capellan2000 at yahoo.com (Alejandro Tejada) Date: Fri, 24 Jun 2005 17:13:45 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Sucess compiling Alex Tweedly DLL! In-Reply-To: <20050624193218.0BEB2930122@mail.runrev.com> Message-ID: <20050625001345.71265.qmail@web40504.mail.yahoo.com> Hi Developers, i remember that Kenneth Simmons has posted a C++ version of the external dll in this page: Following the instructions for compiling this C++ dll in Dev-C++ produced the following errors. Notice these are a lot less than in previous trials with the sdk. :-) ----------------------------------------- Compiler: Default compiler Building Makefile: "C:\Windows\Desktop\mcExternalCPP\Makefile.win" Executing make... make.exe -f "C:\Windows\Desktop\mcExternalCPP\Makefile.win" all g++.exe -c external.cpp -o ../mcExternalCPP/external.o -I"C:/Dev-Cpp/lib/gcc/mingw32/3.4.2/include" -I"C:/Dev-Cpp/include/c++/3.4.2/backward" -I"C:/Dev-Cpp/include/c++/3.4.2/mingw32" -I"C:/Dev-Cpp/include/c++/3.4.2" -I"C:/Dev-Cpp/include" -I"C:/Windows/Desktop/mcExternalCPP" -DBUILDING_DLL=1 -ansi -traditional-cpp external.cpp: In function `void XCcallbacktests(char**, int, char**, int*, int*)': external.cpp:152: error: `time' undeclared (first use this function) external.cpp:152: error: (Each undeclared identifier is reported only once for each function it appears in.) make.exe: *** [../mcExternalCPP/external.o] Error 1 Execution terminated ---------------------------------------- Visit my site: http://www.geocities.com/capellan2000/ __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com From gcanyon at inspiredlogic.com Fri Jun 24 20:44:48 2005 From: gcanyon at inspiredlogic.com (Geoff Canyon) Date: Fri, 24 Jun 2005 17:44:48 -0700 Subject: compileIt for revolution? In-Reply-To: <3ADAE4A7-BDBA-47AA-84BA-EF3E007C4A61@danshafer.com> References: <20050622170404.76336.qmail@web51107.mail.yahoo.com> <5D2B36D7-6FB4-40B6-8BE5-3D5BE47F9C22@danshafer.com> <6.2.1.2.1.20050623062308.01f295b0@pop3.pon.net> <0450A748-8A83-444C-B390-7605A0952312@writeme.com> <3ADAE4A7-BDBA-47AA-84BA-EF3E007C4A61@danshafer.com> Message-ID: On Jun 23, 2005, at 10:09 PM, Dan Shafer wrote: > Verbosity is a virtue in my mind. Not only does it make code more > readable and therefore maintainable, but I can't tell you how many > times I've just sort of guessed at what command or property change > might have some desired effect only to have it behave exactly as > predicted. Only with xTalk and Python have I had that kind of > experience. And I love it! > I don't think the two properties you're talking about, clarity and intuit-ability, have anything to do with verbosity. All three are effects related to the english-like nature of Transcript. Anyone who understands English and the concept of variables understands what "put 3 into x" means. I think the verbosity claim is generally a red herring. Not that you're making that claim, Dan, you just helped me up onto the soap box ;-) The go-to (no pun intended) comparison is "put 3 into x" vs. "x:=3" That comparison is dramatic but misleading. "repeat 20" is no more verbose than the equivalent in most other languages. "if" is still "if" There are even counter-examples, such as various languages that surround conditional groups with braces or other syntactic sugar. Further, the built-in command set, including things like chunk expressions and url-based filesystem access, lead to there being less overall code in Transcript compared to other options. I have yet to see a systematic comparison of the length of Transcript vs. that of other languages. The clarity of Transcript comes simply from good naming conventions for commands and functions. The intuit-ability is much the same. If good naming happens to lead to slightly longer names, that's not a problem for me. regards, Geoff From gcanyon at inspiredlogic.com Fri Jun 24 20:48:11 2005 From: gcanyon at inspiredlogic.com (Geoff Canyon) Date: Fri, 24 Jun 2005 17:48:11 -0700 Subject: compileIt for revolution? In-Reply-To: <42BBEDE8.4010109@sover.net> References: <42BBEDE8.4010109@sover.net> Message-ID: On Jun 24, 2005, at 4:26 AM, Jon wrote: > With all due respect, Jim, if you are trying to do even simple math > on a large array of numbers (like computing a histogram of image > data), Rev is simply too slow to use. It has nothing to do with > data structures: it has to do with slow pCode trying to run tight > loops. > As stated previously, I cannot accept this statement/conclusion without seeing the code in question. There are simply too many ways to write slow code to assume that Rev can't do a task based solely on a very general description -- unless the description involves real time first-person gaming ;-) From ambassador at fourthworld.com Fri Jun 24 20:56:36 2005 From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin) Date: Fri, 24 Jun 2005 17:56:36 -0700 Subject: bug fixes Message-ID: <42BCABC4.9060702@fourthworld.com> Given that Kevin and Mark left California less than 48 hours ago, by my calculations they've been back in the office less than a day. Just the same, since then I've seen cc's on more than a dozen bug reports being resolved or at least confirmed by Mark Waddingham. It seems the drive to fix bugs they expressed at RevCon West is well in motion.... -- Richard Gaskin Fourth World Media Corporation ___________________________________________________________ Ambassador at FourthWorld.com http://www.FourthWorld.com From briany at qldlearning.com Fri Jun 24 20:58:32 2005 From: briany at qldlearning.com (Brian Yennie) Date: Fri, 24 Jun 2005 17:58:32 -0700 Subject: Confirm Long File Name Bug in Player Object In-Reply-To: <7792AF40-54E2-4628-8BFB-665E2621B701@hindu.org> References: <7792AF40-54E2-4628-8BFB-665E2621B701@hindu.org> Message-ID: <9369e855808a230642dfecde44fbf1ee@qldlearning.com> I know this is a pretty dirty sounding workaround, but what happens if you place an alias to the file in the user's temporary files (instead of copying it there)? More work but less disk space if it works... >> If you want to deliver a media player now, the only way around this >> is to >> have your app duplicate the user's media somewhere on their drive, >> rename >> it, and then make sure to delete the duplicate when you're done. For >> a few >> files, one by one, this might be OK, but I question whether this is a >> valid >> workaround for potentially dozens of multi-megabyte files. From see3d at writeme.com Fri Jun 24 21:09:56 2005 From: see3d at writeme.com (Dennis Brown) Date: Fri, 24 Jun 2005 21:09:56 -0400 Subject: bug fixes In-Reply-To: <42BCABC4.9060702@fourthworld.com> References: <42BCABC4.9060702@fourthworld.com> Message-ID: I too have seen many bug activity emails hitting me today from Mark's work on the bug list. What a refreshing turn of events. I am really excited about this! Dennis On Jun 24, 2005, at 8:56 PM, Richard Gaskin wrote: > > Given that Kevin and Mark left California less than 48 hours ago, > by my calculations they've been back in the office less than a day. > > Just the same, since then I've seen cc's on more than a dozen bug > reports being resolved or at least confirmed by Mark Waddingham. > > It seems the drive to fix bugs they expressed at RevCon West is > well in motion.... > > -- > Richard Gaskin > Fourth World Media Corporation > ___________________________________________________________ > Ambassador at FourthWorld.com http://www.FourthWorld.com > _______________________________________________ > use-revolution mailing list > use-revolution at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution > From YourSignup at Yahoo.com Fri Jun 24 21:25:26 2005 From: YourSignup at Yahoo.com (Jim Bufalini) Date: Fri, 24 Jun 2005 15:25:26 -1000 Subject: Stack size (not the previous thread) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Hi All, Let me rephrase this question. I have a stack that has one card in it. The card just has some text custom properties in it. The stack itself has no scripts, no imported graphics, nothing. Yet, the size of the stack file on disk is 3,604,480 bytes (3.43 MB). I deleted the one card from the stack and rev immediately added a blank card. I saved the stack and the size of the file on disk is still 3, 604,480 bytes (yes, I refreshed my directory listing). Anyone have a clue as to what's causing the large disk file size of this stack? Should the file size of a stack automatically change based on it's contents, or do you have to do something to make it resize downward? Jim From katir at hindu.org Fri Jun 24 21:35:25 2005 From: katir at hindu.org (Sivakatirswami) Date: Fri, 24 Jun 2005 15:35:25 -1000 Subject: Confirm Long File Name Bug in Player Object In-Reply-To: <9369e855808a230642dfecde44fbf1ee@qldlearning.com> References: <7792AF40-54E2-4628-8BFB-665E2621B701@hindu.org> <9369e855808a230642dfecde44fbf1ee@qldlearning.com> Message-ID: <2BA8BDD2-59E2-48C2-9CBE-2FCB99BC2F13@hindu.org> I'm all ears... in this app, the sound file is downloaded over the net... and later thrown away... the source file is on our server and will continue to carry the long file name... so, temporarily changing the name of the file is not "dangerous" in this context and since we "own" the files, it's not like I'm messing with my clients file archive... but still I like the alias possibility. I would need that to work on both Mac and Windows... do you have a cross platform script to code an alias? thanks Sivakatirswami On Jun 24, 2005, at 2:58 PM, Brian Yennie wrote: > I know this is a pretty dirty sounding workaround, but what happens > if you place an alias to the file in the user's temporary files > (instead of copying it there)? More work but less disk space if it > works... > > >>> If you want to deliver a media player now, the only way around >>> this is to >>> have your app duplicate the user's media somewhere on their >>> drive, rename >>> it, and then make sure to delete the duplicate when you're done. >>> For a few >>> files, one by one, this might be OK, but I question whether this >>> is a valid >>> workaround for potentially dozens of multi-megabyte files. >>> > > _______________________________________________ > use-revolution mailing list > use-revolution at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution > From briany at qldlearning.com Fri Jun 24 22:26:27 2005 From: briany at qldlearning.com (Brian Yennie) Date: Fri, 24 Jun 2005 19:26:27 -0700 Subject: Confirm Long File Name Bug in Player Object In-Reply-To: <2BA8BDD2-59E2-48C2-9CBE-2FCB99BC2F13@hindu.org> References: <7792AF40-54E2-4628-8BFB-665E2621B701@hindu.org> <9369e855808a230642dfecde44fbf1ee@qldlearning.com> <2BA8BDD2-59E2-48C2-9CBE-2FCB99BC2F13@hindu.org> Message-ID: <679e3b449d7c703f2fa47f4814d7ff19@qldlearning.com> Sivakatirswami, See "create alias" - pretty easy to use. I can't promise that Rev won't resolve the alias and still have long file name problems, but it may be worth a shot. You could probably write a handler, if this works, that loops through all of your player objects and does something like: repeat with i=1 to number of players put the fileName of player i into playerPath set the itemDelimiter to "/" put specialFolderPath("temporary")&"/"&(item -1 of playerPath) into aliasPath create alias aliasPath to file playerPath if (the result is empty) then set the fileName of player i to aliasPath else answer error "Error Creating Alias to Media" end if end repeat Untested, but hopefully helpful. I've tested that setting the fileName to an alias DOES work, I just haven't experienced the long file path bug myself, so can't say whether it cures that! HTH - Brian > I'm all ears... in this app, the sound file is downloaded over the > net... and later thrown away... the source file is on our server and > will continue to carry the long file name... so, temporarily changing > the name of the file is not "dangerous" in this context and since we > "own" the files, it's not like I'm messing with my clients file > archive... but still I like the alias possibility. > > I would need that to work on both Mac and Windows... do you have a > cross platform script to code an alias? > > thanks > Sivakatirswami > > On Jun 24, 2005, at 2:58 PM, Brian Yennie wrote: > >> I know this is a pretty dirty sounding workaround, but what happens >> if you place an alias to the file in the user's temporary files >> (instead of copying it there)? More work but less disk space if it >> works... >> >> >>>> If you want to deliver a media player now, the only way around this >>>> is to >>>> have your app duplicate the user's media somewhere on their drive, >>>> rename >>>> it, and then make sure to delete the duplicate when you're done. >>>> For a few >>>> files, one by one, this might be OK, but I question whether this is >>>> a valid >>>> workaround for potentially dozens of multi-megabyte files. >>>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> use-revolution mailing list >> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >> subscription preferences: >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution >> > > _______________________________________________ > use-revolution mailing list > use-revolution at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution > > From kkaufman at snet.net Fri Jun 24 22:32:15 2005 From: kkaufman at snet.net (Kurt Kaufman) Date: Fri, 24 Jun 2005 22:32:15 -0400 Subject: Resources to learn C programming In-Reply-To: <20050623174410.CE339930188@mail.runrev.com> References: <20050623174410.CE339930188@mail.runrev.com> Message-ID: <794481b1a347cd4d394e5ae3812c55b5@snet.net> Also: http://www.shopperturnpike.com/usefulsoftware/Guide to C.pdf From 3mcgrath at adelphia.net Fri Jun 24 23:01:24 2005 From: 3mcgrath at adelphia.net (Thomas McGrath III) Date: Fri, 24 Jun 2005 23:01:24 -0400 Subject: Contextual menus and polygons In-Reply-To: References: <20050624160049.BF97A930128@mail.runrev.com> Message-ID: <6fa286a3f8ffa2d4658ae62424718a74@adelphia.net> Jim, When you installed 2.6 the settings were set back for contextual menus. Go to the preferences menu and reselect the allow contextual menus item. That should do it. HTH Tom On Jun 24, 2005, at 1:16 PM, Jim Hurley wrote: > I'm losing my mind. > > I have always used "command-option-shift-click" to get the contextual > menu. Works for when either the browser tool or the pointer tool is > selected. As soon as I open Run Rev the fingers on my left hand assume > the command-option-shift configuration. > > But in 2.5 and 2.6 it works for every control *except* a polygon. > > In 2.2 it worked for polygons. > > Anybody else experience this? > > Mac OS 10.2.8 > > Jim > _______________________________________________ > use-revolution mailing list > use-revolution at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution > > Thomas J. McGrath III SCS 1000 Killarney Dr. Pittsburgh, PA 15234 412-885-8541 From 3mcgrath at adelphia.net Fri Jun 24 23:07:18 2005 From: 3mcgrath at adelphia.net (Thomas McGrath III) Date: Fri, 24 Jun 2005 23:07:18 -0400 Subject: bug fixes In-Reply-To: <42BCABC4.9060702@fourthworld.com> References: <42BCABC4.9060702@fourthworld.com> Message-ID: <4ef9615039e0e4c8c59fbdd7df46ad58@adelphia.net> Yeah, I also noticed how quick the response was and how many bugs are now either reopened or resolved. Way to go. TOm On Jun 24, 2005, at 8:56 PM, Richard Gaskin wrote: > > Given that Kevin and Mark left California less than 48 hours ago, by > my calculations they've been back in the office less than a day. > > Just the same, since then I've seen cc's on more than a dozen bug > reports being resolved or at least confirmed by Mark Waddingham. > > It seems the drive to fix bugs they expressed at RevCon West is well > in motion.... > > -- > Richard Gaskin > Fourth World Media Corporation > ___________________________________________________________ > Ambassador at FourthWorld.com http://www.FourthWorld.com > _______________________________________________ > use-revolution mailing list > use-revolution at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution > > Thomas J. McGrath III SCS 1000 Killarney Dr. Pittsburgh, PA 15234 412-885-8541 From katir at hindu.org Sat Jun 25 01:17:15 2005 From: katir at hindu.org (Sivakatirswami) Date: Fri, 24 Jun 2005 19:17:15 -1000 Subject: Confirm Long File Name Bug in Player Object In-Reply-To: <679e3b449d7c703f2fa47f4814d7ff19@qldlearning.com> References: <7792AF40-54E2-4628-8BFB-665E2621B701@hindu.org> <9369e855808a230642dfecde44fbf1ee@qldlearning.com> <2BA8BDD2-59E2-48C2-9CBE-2FCB99BC2F13@hindu.org> <679e3b449d7c703f2fa47f4814d7ff19@qldlearning.com> Message-ID: <5EAFBABB-D3CD-4E1E-B315-6C78742A5321@hindu.org> Setting a player to the alias resolves the alias and applies the original path to the player's filename prop. So this alias option doesn't get us anything. try it... make alias of long file name.. truncate alias a back to <32 chars... "set the fileName of player i to aliasPath"....then check player's props filename will be the original long one. On Jun 24, 2005, at 4:26 PM, Brian Yennie wrote: > Sivakatirswami, > > See "create alias" - pretty easy to use. > > I can't promise that Rev won't resolve the alias and still have > long file name problems, but it may be worth a shot. You could > probably write a handler, if this works, that loops through all of > your player objects and does something like: > > repeat with i=1 to number of players > put the fileName of player i into playerPath > set the itemDelimiter to "/" > put specialFolderPath("temporary")&"/"&(item -1 of playerPath) > into aliasPath > create alias aliasPath to file playerPath > if (the result is empty) then > set the fileName of player i to aliasPath > else > answer error "Error Creating Alias to Media" > end if > end repeat > > Untested, but hopefully helpful. I've tested that setting the > fileName to an alias DOES work, I just haven't experienced the long > file path bug myself, so can't say whether it cures that! > > HTH - > > Brian > > >> I'm all ears... in this app, the sound file is downloaded over the >> net... and later thrown away... the source file is on our server >> and will continue to carry the long file name... so, temporarily >> changing the name of the file is not "dangerous" in this context >> and since we "own" the files, it's not like I'm messing with my >> clients file archive... but still I like the alias possibility. >> >> I would need that to work on both Mac and Windows... do you have a >> cross platform script to code an alias? >> >> thanks >> Sivakatirswami >> >> On Jun 24, 2005, at 2:58 PM, Brian Yennie wrote: >> >> >>> I know this is a pretty dirty sounding workaround, but what >>> happens if you place an alias to the file in the user's temporary >>> files (instead of copying it there)? More work but less disk >>> space if it works... >>> >>> >>> >>>>> If you want to deliver a media player now, the only way around >>>>> this is to >>>>> have your app duplicate the user's media somewhere on their >>>>> drive, rename >>>>> it, and then make sure to delete the duplicate when you're >>>>> done. For a few >>>>> files, one by one, this might be OK, but I question whether >>>>> this is a valid >>>>> workaround for potentially dozens of multi-megabyte files. >>>>> >>>>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> use-revolution mailing list >>> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com >>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >>> subscription preferences: >>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution >>> >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> use-revolution mailing list >> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >> subscription preferences: >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution >> >> >> > > _______________________________________________ > use-revolution mailing list > use-revolution at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution > From kray at sonsothunder.com Sat Jun 25 01:24:37 2005 From: kray at sonsothunder.com (Ken Ray) Date: Sat, 25 Jun 2005 00:24:37 -0500 Subject: Choosing printer from within a script In-Reply-To: <64878EF567131D4596246171F75FD4A97445D7@m-epo-1.epo.cdc.gov> Message-ID: > Well, actually, I would also need to select the current printer. Do you > think that might set off antivirus software? Perhaps, I'm not sure. > I am pretty sure I could get a list of printers just by getting the > files in the printer folder - but choosing a current printer, so that > the subsequent print command prints on that printer, is a different > matter. True. > I really wish that was an inherent part of transcript. So do I! Ken Ray Sons of Thunder Software Email: kray at sonsothunder.com Web Site: http://www.sonsothunder.com/ From dsc at swcp.com Sat Jun 25 01:41:14 2005 From: dsc at swcp.com (Dar Scott) Date: Fri, 24 Jun 2005 23:41:14 -0600 Subject: Confirm Long File Name Bug in Player Object In-Reply-To: <5EAFBABB-D3CD-4E1E-B315-6C78742A5321@hindu.org> References: <7792AF40-54E2-4628-8BFB-665E2621B701@hindu.org> <9369e855808a230642dfecde44fbf1ee@qldlearning.com> <2BA8BDD2-59E2-48C2-9CBE-2FCB99BC2F13@hindu.org> <679e3b449d7c703f2fa47f4814d7ff19@qldlearning.com> <5EAFBABB-D3CD-4E1E-B315-6C78742A5321@hindu.org> Message-ID: <068fc61310d3badce7e94d02aca3d9d2@swcp.com> On Jun 24, 2005, at 11:17 PM, Sivakatirswami wrote: > Setting a player to the alias resolves the alias and applies the > original path to the player's filename prop. So this alias option > doesn't get us anything. try it... make alias of long file name.. > truncate alias a back to <32 chars... "set the fileName of player i to > aliasPath"....then check player's props filename will be the original > long one. It was worth a try. Dar -- ********************************************** DSC (Dar Scott Consulting & Dar's Lab) http://www.swcp.com/dsc/ Programming and software ********************************************** From jacque at hyperactivesw.com Sat Jun 25 01:44:11 2005 From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay) Date: Sat, 25 Jun 2005 00:44:11 -0500 Subject: Scripting conference direct link Message-ID: <42BCEF2B.9070503@hyperactivesw.com> If the Runtime server is down before or during our scripting conference on Saturday, those who rely on the web page link to get to the conference may not be able to find the chat room. Here is a link that will take you directly to the chat room: We'll look for you there, same time as always. -- Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com From katir at hindu.org Sat Jun 25 01:55:21 2005 From: katir at hindu.org (Sivakatirswami) Date: Fri, 24 Jun 2005 19:55:21 -1000 Subject: Confirm Long File Name Bug in Player Object In-Reply-To: <068fc61310d3badce7e94d02aca3d9d2@swcp.com> References: <7792AF40-54E2-4628-8BFB-665E2621B701@hindu.org> <9369e855808a230642dfecde44fbf1ee@qldlearning.com> <2BA8BDD2-59E2-48C2-9CBE-2FCB99BC2F13@hindu.org> <679e3b449d7c703f2fa47f4814d7ff19@qldlearning.com> <5EAFBABB-D3CD-4E1E-B315-6C78742A5321@hindu.org> <068fc61310d3badce7e94d02aca3d9d2@swcp.com> Message-ID: <0B862B4D-EE2C-430D-A154-F792383758D5@hindu.org> OK I throw in the towel... I'll rename the files for now on the users hard drive while retaining the long file name for all other processes other than simply to play the player... this solves the immediate problem and by changing a few other scripts that refer to the field that contains the path to refer instead to the custom prop that contains a <32 filename... I'm good to go.... and I'll offer some mangoes to the Gods of the temple of Run Rev that they will fix this before I get back to building the other apps related to this project, in those contexts I definitely do not want to be changing these files names... oh...viz-a-viz the bug categorizatioin: i guess, since I *can* carry on, this is indeed not a true "blocker"... :-) I see what you mean... a true blocker should mean I can't do *anything* to continue. global theTape on mouseUp answer "Are you finished with the last one? If so, shall I clear the header info?" with "No" or "Yes" if it is "No" then exit to top answer file "Locate the sound file you want to transcribe." with (fld "localPath" of stack "atra-prefs" &"/") if it is empty then exit mouseUp put it into theTape put empty into fld "theTotalTime" put theTape into fld "soundfile" set the uActualFileName of fld "soundFile" to theTape set the itemdel to "/" if len(item -1 of theTape)>32 then put theTape into tTruncatedFileName put char 1 to 13 of (item -1 of theTape) & ".mp3" into item -1 of tTruncatedFileName rename file theTape to tTruncatedFileName put tTruncatedFileName into theTape set the uActualFileName of fld "soundFile" to theTape end if set the filename of player "theTape" to theTape clearHeader end mouseUp On Jun 24, 2005, at 7:41 PM, Dar Scott wrote: > > On Jun 24, 2005, at 11:17 PM, Sivakatirswami wrote: > > >> Setting a player to the alias resolves the alias and applies the >> original path to the player's filename prop. So this alias option >> doesn't get us anything. try it... make alias of long file name.. >> truncate alias a back to <32 chars... "set the fileName of player >> i to aliasPath"....then check player's props filename will be the >> original long one. >> > > It was worth a try. > > Dar > -- > ********************************************** > DSC (Dar Scott Consulting & Dar's Lab) > http://www.swcp.com/dsc/ > Programming and software > ********************************************** > > _______________________________________________ > use-revolution mailing list > use-revolution at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution > From b.xavier at internet.lu Sat Jun 25 03:43:32 2005 From: b.xavier at internet.lu (MisterX) Date: Sat, 25 Jun 2005 09:43:32 +0200 Subject: bug fixes In-Reply-To: <42BCABC4.9060702@fourthworld.com> Message-ID: <20050625070153.06B00930058@mail.runrev.com> 33 bugzillas confirmed or aknowledged here! ;) > -----Original Message----- > From: use-revolution-bounces at lists.runrev.com > [mailto:use-revolution-bounces at lists.runrev.com] On Behalf Of > Richard Gaskin > Sent: Saturday, June 25, 2005 02:57 > To: How to use Revolution > Subject: bug fixes > > > Given that Kevin and Mark left California less than 48 hours > ago, by my calculations they've been back in the office less > than a day. > > Just the same, since then I've seen cc's on more than a dozen > bug reports being resolved or at least confirmed by Mark Waddingham. > > It seems the drive to fix bugs they expressed at RevCon West > is well in motion.... > > -- > Richard Gaskin > Fourth World Media Corporation > ___________________________________________________________ > Ambassador at FourthWorld.com http://www.FourthWorld.com > _______________________________________________ > use-revolution mailing list > use-revolution at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage > your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution > From eric.chatonet at sosmartsoftware.com Sat Jun 25 04:44:54 2005 From: eric.chatonet at sosmartsoftware.com (Eric Chatonet) Date: Sat, 25 Jun 2005 10:44:54 +0200 Subject: set defaultFolder to non-existent folder behavior In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hi Emilio, Why don't you check if the volume or the folder does exists before setting the defaultFolder property? If there is a folder tFolder then set the defaultFolder to tFolder else... Should be reliable... Check also the volumes property. Best Regards from Paris, Eric Chatonet. Le 24 juin 05 ? 20:45, Emilio Gagliardi a ?crit : > Hi all, here is an interesting one I thought I'd pass along to see > if anyone has encountered this before. > > In the documentation for defaultFolder it says that if you set the > defaultFolder to a folder that can't be opened it returns "can't > open directory". So i have some code that mounts a volume from a > networked computer to move some files across the network. I > created a function to check if the network computer is, in fact, > mounted. The function works correctly when the drive is mounted in > that result() is empty. Now, to test my code, I unmounted the > volume through the Finder(eject) and disconnected the network cable > from the computer. But when I ran the code a second time, result() > still came back empty. That is, in the second attempt I set the > defaultFolder to /Volumes/MountedDrive/Folder/ when it should not > be possible, because there wasn't even a physical connection. > > Whats interesting, is that i opened the console and listed the > drives available in /Volumes/ and sure enough "MountedDrive" was > listed despite the fact that it wasn't listed in the Finder. I > even rebooted with no network cable and "MountedDrive" still > appeared in /Volumes/. > So I tried one last thing, if the defaultFolder was truly set to > "MountedFolder" then my file moving code should work, right? > Wrong. That code threw an error and failed as you would expect > since there was no connection! > > Does anyone know why this is? Is there some period of time that > old connections are retained in a lookup table b4 being removed? > I'd really like a solid mechanism to ensure that the drive is > mounted, and the above does not seem to provide that. ---------------------------------------------------------------- So Smart Software For institutions, companies and associations Built-to-order applications: management, multimedia, internet, etc. Windows, Mac OS and Linux... With the French touch Free plugins and tutorials on my website ---------------------------------------------------------------- Web site http://www.sosmartsoftware.com/ Email eric.chatonet at sosmartsoftware.com/ Phone 33 (0)1 43 31 77 62 Mobile 33 (0)6 20 74 50 86 ---------------------------------------------------------------- From jbv.silences at Club-Internet.fr Sat Jun 25 05:04:35 2005 From: jbv.silences at Club-Internet.fr (jbv) Date: Sat, 25 Jun 2005 11:04:35 +0200 Subject: "repeat for each" in reverse order ? Message-ID: <42BD1E22.E3072AE9@Club-Internet.fr> Hi list, Is there a way to use "repeat for each element thisIndexTerm in listOfTerms" in reverse order, like in "repeat with i=number of items of myVar down to 1" ? Thanks, JB From jbv.silences at Club-Internet.fr Sat Jun 25 05:06:11 2005 From: jbv.silences at Club-Internet.fr (jbv) Date: Sat, 25 Jun 2005 11:06:11 +0200 Subject: OT : WinXP limits question Message-ID: <42BD1E82.482FCFA6@Club-Internet.fr> Hi again, What is the maximum number of elements (files or subfolders) that a folder can contain in WinXP ? Thanks, JB From b.xavier at internet.lu Sat Jun 25 05:20:49 2005 From: b.xavier at internet.lu (MisterX) Date: Sat, 25 Jun 2005 11:20:49 +0200 Subject: "repeat for each" in reverse order ? In-Reply-To: <42BD1E22.E3072AE9@Club-Internet.fr> Message-ID: <20050625083904.12D9C93005D@mail.runrev.com> sort your items to list backwards first ;) > -----Original Message----- > From: use-revolution-bounces at lists.runrev.com > [mailto:use-revolution-bounces at lists.runrev.com] On Behalf Of jbv > Sent: Saturday, June 25, 2005 11:05 > To: How to use Revolution > Subject: "repeat for each" in reverse order ? > > Hi list, > > Is there a way to use > "repeat for each element thisIndexTerm in listOfTerms" > in reverse order, like in > "repeat with i=number of items of myVar down to 1" ? > > Thanks, > JB > > _______________________________________________ > use-revolution mailing list > use-revolution at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage > your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution > From b.xavier at internet.lu Sat Jun 25 05:25:57 2005 From: b.xavier at internet.lu (MisterX) Date: Sat, 25 Jun 2005 11:25:57 +0200 Subject: WinXP limits question In-Reply-To: <42BD1E82.482FCFA6@Club-Internet.fr> Message-ID: <20050625084501.D0647930121@mail.runrev.com> although after 8000 your computer can start crawling, i've seen folders with 64000 things in them no probs. Files limit? I see about 1 million files anytime. No probs. We have 33 million files or something like that in our file systems - and past a certain size, the system's capacity wasn't the problem, but backing it up - the monthly backups would take much more than just a weekend... Subfolders limit - i haven't seen the limit on and in any 3-400GB drive yet - believe me these are big folders. The only limit is "path names". If they are longuer than x bytes you might get errors but you can go around it with mount points (see subst.exe) or shares mounted as volumes which will shorten the path anytime. cheers Xavier > -----Original Message----- > From: use-revolution-bounces at lists.runrev.com > [mailto:use-revolution-bounces at lists.runrev.com] On Behalf Of jbv > Sent: Saturday, June 25, 2005 11:06 > To: How to use Revolution > Subject: OT : WinXP limits question > > Hi again, > > What is the maximum number of elements (files or subfolders) > that a folder can contain in WinXP ? > > Thanks, > JB > > _______________________________________________ > use-revolution mailing list > use-revolution at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage > your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution > From b.xavier at internet.lu Sat Jun 25 05:29:37 2005 From: b.xavier at internet.lu (MisterX) Date: Sat, 25 Jun 2005 11:29:37 +0200 Subject: Strange saving behavior Message-ID: <20050625084915.20EC5930121@mail.runrev.com> Hi everyone, Another day, another issue On windows, when i use the command: save stack thisstack The "filename" in windows is put to lowercase... Is there a way to prevent this? Because of my case sensitive ftp, the way i like how i case the names, i dont want this!!!! Sure doesn't look normal. How are linux users affected i wonder? Can anyone from rev explain maybe? I want to file a CRITICAL on this! ;) cheers Xavier From b.xavier at internet.lu Sat Jun 25 05:41:29 2005 From: b.xavier at internet.lu (MisterX) Date: Sat, 25 Jun 2005 11:41:29 +0200 Subject: ANN: BreakpointsNavigator 1.2 Message-ID: <20050625090033.ADE3B93009C@mail.runrev.com> MonsieurX proudly presents version 1.2 of BPN. Thanks to a question from Chipp, i got this idea to add the main missing feature in this little plugin. And that was to display all the breakpoints in the Rev environment. (note that there is one i haven't been able to remove in the revLibrary stack - type "the breakpoints" in the msg: group id 1016 of card id 1002 of stack "F:/Revolution 2.6/components/global environment/revlibrary.rev",500). You can quickly jump to or delete any breakpoint naturally like you could with the debugobjects previously (except for that one). I also made the report field editable so you could copy paste stuff. You can download it here: (only 155 kbs) http://monsieurx.com/modules.php?name=Downloads&d_op=getit&lid=77 cheers Xavier http://monsieurx.com/taoo From YourSignup at Yahoo.com Sat Jun 25 06:02:21 2005 From: YourSignup at Yahoo.com (Jim Bufalini) Date: Sat, 25 Jun 2005 00:02:21 -1000 Subject: "repeat for each" in reverse order ? In-Reply-To: <42BD1E22.E3072AE9@Club-Internet.fr> Message-ID: JB put the number of [whatever] into j -- See note: repeat with i = j down to 1 If you put the first line in the loop as in "i = the number of [whatever] down to 1" the number of would be evaluated each time, I believe, and be slower. Jim -----Original Message----- From: use-revolution-bounces at lists.runrev.com [mailto:use-revolution-bounces at lists.runrev.com]On Behalf Of jbv Sent: Friday, June 24, 2005 11:05 PM To: How to use Revolution Subject: "repeat for each" in reverse order ? Hi list, Is there a way to use "repeat for each element thisIndexTerm in listOfTerms" in reverse order, like in "repeat with i=number of items of myVar down to 1" ? Thanks, JB _______________________________________________ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution at lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution From lists at mangomultimedia.com Sat Jun 25 11:57:21 2005 From: lists at mangomultimedia.com (Trevor DeVore) Date: Sat, 25 Jun 2005 08:57:21 -0700 Subject: mysql oddities In-Reply-To: References: <20050624021545.0036A9301DE@mail.runrev.com> Message-ID: On Jun 24, 2005, at 12:55 AM, Howard Freeman wrote: > I've been using rev to link up to MySQL for a while but I've just > changed my web space supplier and I can't connect to MySQL. I > thought that this was their problem but it's stranger than that. > > If I use the database query builder then the connection is made and > I can see the tables and fields and can query the database. When I > try to do the same thing in my own stack - and those of other > people who use MySQL - I get connection errors. What I'd really > like to do is get inside the database query builder to find out > what commands it is using to connect to my database. The query builder uses the revdb library to connect so it isn't doing anything special. If you can connect using the query builder but not in your own code then I would check that you have the parameters in the right place and the right order. What kind of error are you getting? > Alternatively, can someone provide some tips about the port > variable in the revopendatabase function? I'm just putting the port > number as a colon and number immediately after the host url and I'm > sure this is right, eg :3337. Is there any other way to write it? That is what revOpenDatabase is expecting so that shouldn't be the problem. I'm assuming you are passing it like this: put revOpenDatabase("mysql", "db.myhost.com:3306", "myDBName", "USERNAME", "PASSWORD", true) > Also, I don't want to use the database query manager all the time > because I intend to distribute this as a standalone to users of the > MySQL database. -- Trevor DeVore Blue Mango Multimedia trevor at mangomultimedia.com From mwieder at ahsoftware.net Sat Jun 25 12:10:17 2005 From: mwieder at ahsoftware.net (Mark Wieder) Date: Sat, 25 Jun 2005 09:10:17 -0700 Subject: OT : WinXP limits question In-Reply-To: <42BD1E82.482FCFA6@Club-Internet.fr> References: <42BD1E82.482FCFA6@Club-Internet.fr> Message-ID: <392174026.20050625091017@ahsoftware.net> jbv- Saturday, June 25, 2005, 2:06:11 AM, you wrote: j> What is the maximum number of elements (files or subfolders) j> that a folder can contain in WinXP ? I don't think there's a physical limit. There used to be a limit of 63 files or folders in the root directory, but I don't know if that carried through to NTFS. You may run into problems with some programs not being able to access paths longer than 256 characters. Um... I hesitate to ask this, but... why do you ask? -- -Mark Wieder mwieder at ahsoftware.net From mwieder at ahsoftware.net Sat Jun 25 12:11:53 2005 From: mwieder at ahsoftware.net (Mark Wieder) Date: Sat, 25 Jun 2005 09:11:53 -0700 Subject: bug fixes In-Reply-To: <42BCABC4.9060702@fourthworld.com> References: <42BCABC4.9060702@fourthworld.com> Message-ID: <572270284.20050625091153@ahsoftware.net> Richard- Friday, June 24, 2005, 5:56:36 PM, you wrote: RG> It seems the drive to fix bugs they expressed at RevCon West is well in RG> motion.... Yes - I'm excited about this. Very excited. If this is what happens from bringing just *two* runrev folks to a conference, then I suggest we hold RevCon2006 in Edinburgh and camp out in the development lab. -- -Mark Wieder mwieder at ahsoftware.net From stephenREVOLUTION at barncard.com Sat Jun 25 13:12:46 2005 From: stephenREVOLUTION at barncard.com (Stephen Barncard) Date: Sat, 25 Jun 2005 10:12:46 -0700 Subject: Cursed Cursor Message-ID: I'm getting the garbage when the default cursor is supposed to be displayed. It makes it hard to see the 'hot spot'. I remember seeing someone had this problem before -- which rev internal stack is supposed to handle this, and does swapping it out for a fresh stack fix the problem? Also is it possible for a graphic in the top stack to cause this ? sqb From jbondy at sover.net Sat Jun 25 08:02:23 2005 From: jbondy at sover.net (Jon) Date: Sat, 25 Jun 2005 08:02:23 -0400 Subject: compileIt for revolution? In-Reply-To: References: <42BBEDE8.4010109@sover.net> Message-ID: <42BD47CF.3060609@sover.net> I already posted the code and announced it on this list: look for my image processor in my user space, open a large image (at least 1000x1000), select Bright, and then Linear. I look forward to seeing what you optimists ... er ... optimizers come up with! :) Jon Geoff Canyon wrote: > > On Jun 24, 2005, at 4:26 AM, Jon wrote: > >> With all due respect, Jim, if you are trying to do even simple math >> on a large array of numbers (like computing a histogram of image >> data), Rev is simply too slow to use. It has nothing to do with >> data structures: it has to do with slow pCode trying to run tight >> loops. >> > > As stated previously, I cannot accept this statement/conclusion > without seeing the code in question. There are simply too many ways > to write slow code to assume that Rev can't do a task based solely on > a very general description -- unless the description involves real > time first-person gaming ;-) > _______________________________________________ > use-revolution mailing list > use-revolution at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution > > From davis.phil at comcast.net Sat Jun 25 13:57:48 2005 From: davis.phil at comcast.net (Phil Davis) Date: Sat, 25 Jun 2005 10:57:48 -0700 Subject: "repeat for each" in reverse order ? In-Reply-To: <42BD1E22.E3072AE9@Club-Internet.fr> References: <42BD1E22.E3072AE9@Club-Internet.fr> Message-ID: <42BD9B1C.4090601@comcast.net> It sounds like you're looking for a feature that doesn't yet exist (or at least I'm not aware of it). I could see having a property that defines the direction in which the 'repeat for each' structure does its looping, like this: set the repeatDirection to "descending" -- or "down", "reverse", ??? repeat for each element x in y -- actions end repeat That would be a nice feature indeed. No harm in requesting it! Phil Davis jbv wrote: > Hi list, > > Is there a way to use > "repeat for each element thisIndexTerm in listOfTerms" > in reverse order, like in > "repeat with i=number of items of myVar down to 1" ? > > Thanks, > JB > > _______________________________________________ > use-revolution mailing list > use-revolution at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution > From stephenREVOLUTION at barncard.com Sat Jun 25 13:58:51 2005 From: stephenREVOLUTION at barncard.com (Stephen Barncard) Date: Sat, 25 Jun 2005 10:58:51 -0700 Subject: Custom Modal List Dialog Methodology Message-ID: I'm currently recreating in REV what I used to use a Rinaldi XCMD for... namely a listbox dialog for choosing items from a list. The idea is to have a function function listbox pPromptData,pListData that puts up a window with a prompt field, and a list field. Select and click an item or hit return or enter. Standard GUI stuff. This would return the selected item or empty. I've created the new window/stack, I'm using dialogData to pass the info back and forth, and I have the function that sets up the data and opens the window. I had figured on using wait with messages to halt script execution until the dialog was closed, but I can't seem to send the right message to it from the dialog closing to get it to go to the next line of code, 'BEEP'. I also tried changing a variable. Anyone found the best way to deal with this? Eventually I'd like to be able do it all from a script on the fly - create the window,fields, buttons, everything, from a text description before display like I used to do in WindowScript... it's all about properties, after all.... thanks... --this is located in the stack script of the calling stack --scrunch converts returns to VTs to get more data in dialogdata function dialogList pPrompt,pListData global gDialogFlag if there is a stack "listDialog" then put scrunch(pPrompt) & return & scrunch(pListData) into tDialogTxt set the dialogData to tDialogTxt --- put the dialogData -- exit to top put "true" into gDialogFlag open stack "listDialog" <------ this is the dialog wait with messages -- wait until gDialogFlag is "false" with messages?? beep <--------this never executes else answer "Can't find stack: listDialog" exit to top end if return the dialogData end dialogList From jbondy at sover.net Sat Jun 25 08:06:27 2005 From: jbondy at sover.net (Jon) Date: Sat, 25 Jun 2005 08:06:27 -0400 Subject: Confirm Long File Name Bug in Player Object In-Reply-To: <0B862B4D-EE2C-430D-A154-F792383758D5@hindu.org> References: <7792AF40-54E2-4628-8BFB-665E2621B701@hindu.org> <9369e855808a230642dfecde44fbf1ee@qldlearning.com> <2BA8BDD2-59E2-48C2-9CBE-2FCB99BC2F13@hindu.org> <679e3b449d7c703f2fa47f4814d7ff19@qldlearning.com> <5EAFBABB-D3CD-4E1E-B315-6C78742A5321@hindu.org> <068fc61310d3badce7e94d02aca3d9d2@swcp.com> <0B862B4D-EE2C-430D-A154-F792383758D5@hindu.org> Message-ID: <42BD48C3.5060102@sover.net> Is this just a Mac problem, or is it also a Windows problem? :) Jon Sivakatirswami wrote: > OK I throw in the towel... I'll rename the files for now on the users > hard drive while retaining the long file name for all other processes > other than simply to play the player... this solves the immediate > problem and by changing a few other scripts that refer to the field > that contains the path to refer instead to the custom prop that > contains a <32 filename... I'm good to go.... and I'll offer some > mangoes to the Gods of the temple of Run Rev that they will fix this > before I get back to building the other apps related to this project, > in those contexts I definitely do not want to be changing these files > names... > > oh...viz-a-viz the bug categorizatioin: i guess, since I *can* carry > on, this is indeed not a true "blocker"... > > :-) I see what you mean... a true blocker should mean I can't do > *anything* to continue. > > global theTape > on mouseUp > answer "Are you finished with the last one? If so, shall I clear > the header info?" with "No" or "Yes" > if it is "No" then exit to top > answer file "Locate the sound file you want to transcribe." with > (fld "localPath" of stack "atra-prefs" &"/") > if it is empty then exit mouseUp > put it into theTape > put empty into fld "theTotalTime" > put theTape into fld "soundfile" > set the uActualFileName of fld "soundFile" to theTape > set the itemdel to "/" > if len(item -1 of theTape)>32 then > put theTape into tTruncatedFileName > put char 1 to 13 of (item -1 of theTape) & ".mp3" into item -1 > of tTruncatedFileName > rename file theTape to tTruncatedFileName > put tTruncatedFileName into theTape > set the uActualFileName of fld "soundFile" to theTape > end if > set the filename of player "theTape" to theTape > clearHeader > end mouseUp > > On Jun 24, 2005, at 7:41 PM, Dar Scott wrote: > >> >> On Jun 24, 2005, at 11:17 PM, Sivakatirswami wrote: >> >> >>> Setting a player to the alias resolves the alias and applies the >>> original path to the player's filename prop. So this alias option >>> doesn't get us anything. try it... make alias of long file name.. >>> truncate alias a back to <32 chars... "set the fileName of player i >>> to aliasPath"....then check player's props filename will be the >>> original long one. >>> >> >> It was worth a try. >> >> Dar >> -- >> ********************************************** >> DSC (Dar Scott Consulting & Dar's Lab) >> http://www.swcp.com/dsc/ >> Programming and software >> ********************************************** >> >> _______________________________________________ >> use-revolution mailing list >> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >> subscription preferences: >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution >> > > _______________________________________________ > use-revolution mailing list > use-revolution at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution > > From jhurley at infostations.com Sat Jun 25 08:44:54 2005 From: jhurley at infostations.com (Jim Hurley) Date: Sat, 25 Jun 2005 05:44:54 -0700 Subject: is within ... polygon shape? In-Reply-To: <20050625000512.E88079300F1@mail.runrev.com> References: <20050625000512.E88079300F1@mail.runrev.com> Message-ID: > >Message: 15 >Date: Sat, 25 Jun 2005 00:10:18 +0100 >From: Alex Tweedly >Subject: Re: is within ... polygon shape? >To: How to use Revolution >Message-ID: <42BC92DA.6070200 at tweedly.net> >Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed > >Jim Hurley wrote: > >> >> Take a look at: >> >> go stack url "http://home.infostations.net/jhurley/CollidingPolygons.rev" >> >Sorry, Jim, but that doesn't work for all polygons. For example (excuse >the ascii drawing ....) > > > 111111111 > 1 1 > 1 1 > 22222222222222222222222 > 2 2 > 22222222222222222222222 > 1 1 > 111111111 > >Even for 2 rectangles, it doesn't always work. If I remember >correctly, the most effective algorithm for overlap depends on edge >intersections (with a special case test for one polygon entirely within >the other). Any two polygons that overlap will have at least one case >where their edges intersect - though you need to deal with the special >cases where the edges touch; you can then test the mid-point of the >edges adjacent to the point of touch to determine if they are within or >outwith the other polygon (or alternatively, test the points 1 delta >away from the point of touch - but then you need to be very careful >about precision and rounding errors). > > And even then, you have some weird corner cases involved in >self-reflexive polygons - far less Rev's "invisible edge" polygons which >can produce disjoint areas. > >(Is self-reflexive the right term ? polygons that overlap themselves, like > > 11111 > 1 1 > 111111111111111 > 1 1 > 111111111111 1 > 1 1 1 1 > 1 1 1 1 > 1 11111 1 > 1 1 > 11111111111 > > >You need to determine whether the points in the self-overlap area are >within the polygon or not ... and I can't remember which is the "right" >decision, i.e. the one that makes the problem easier. > >-- >Alex Tweedly http://www.tweedly.net > > Alex, Your ascii figures didn't translate very well in my email app. But I think I understand the first diagram, it represent a somewhat different problem from the collision problem. It would not be possible to achieve this configuration without one or more apexes entering the other polygon. What you say is quite true if the problem is to detect any overlapping area not just a collision. Messy. Even worse, grubby. Jim From jhurley at infostations.com Sat Jun 25 08:51:00 2005 From: jhurley at infostations.com (Jim Hurley) Date: Sat, 25 Jun 2005 05:51:00 -0700 Subject: Contextual menus and polygons In-Reply-To: <20050625084322.5C9D293011B@mail.runrev.com> References: <20050625084322.5C9D293011B@mail.runrev.com> Message-ID: > >Message: 9 >Date: Fri, 24 Jun 2005 23:01:24 -0400 >From: Thomas McGrath III <3mcgrath at adelphia.net> >Subject: Re: Contextual menus and polygons >To: How to use Revolution >Message-ID: <6fa286a3f8ffa2d4658ae62424718a74 at adelphia.net> >Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed > >Jim, > >When you installed 2.6 the settings were set back for contextual menus. >Go to the preferences menu and reselect the allow contextual menus >item. That should do it. > > >HTH > >Tom > >On Jun 24, 2005, at 1:16 PM, Jim Hurley wrote: > >> I'm losing my mind. >> >> I have always used "command-option-shift-click" to get the contextual >> menu. Works for when either the browser tool or the pointer tool is >> selected. As soon as I open Run Rev the fingers on my left hand assume >> the command-option-shift configuration. >> > > But in 2.5 and 2.6 it works for every control *except* a polygon. >> > > In 2.2 it worked for polygons. >> >> Anybody else experience this? >> >> Mac OS 10.2.8 >> >> Jim >> _______________________________________________ >> use-revolution mailing list >> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >> subscription preferences: >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution > > >> Tom, That isn't it. I get contextual menus for all controls EXCEPT for a polygon control. I will report this as a bug. Jim From stephenREVOLUTION at barncard.com Sat Jun 25 15:40:12 2005 From: stephenREVOLUTION at barncard.com (Stephen Barncard) Date: Sat, 25 Jun 2005 12:40:12 -0700 Subject: [ANSWER TO OWN QUESTION]Re: Custom Modal List Dialog Methodology In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: I think I got it while the listserv was down...this works nicely. Wait For Messages inside a repeat loop conditional on a flag. The alternate single line method, wait until gDialogFlag is "false" with messages as I've found and Dave Cragg suggested, seems to tie up resources a la the dreaded 'idle'. in the stack script: function dialogList pPrompt,pListData global gDialogFlag local DD,tDialogTxt if there is a stack "listDialog" then put scrunch(pPrompt) & return & scrunch(pListData) into tDialogTxt set the dialogData to tDialogTxt open stack "listDialog" put "true" into gDialogFlag -- wait for modal dialog to quit repeat until gDialogFlag is "false" wait for messages end repeat -- resume execution here put the dialogData into DD end if return DD end dialogList function scrunch x replace return with numToChar(11) in x return x end scrunch function unscrunch x replace numToChar(11) with return in x return x end unscrunch -- this is in the stack script of the dialog global gDialogFlag on acceptTheEntry -- we are accepting this selection set the dialogdata to the selectedText of fld "listField" close this stack end acceptTheEntry on acceptNOTTheEntry -- we are NOT accepting this set the dialogdata to empty close this stack end acceptNOTTheEntry on openstack get the dialogData put unscrunch(line one of it) into fld "promptField" put unscrunch(line two of it) into fld "listField" pass openStack end openstack on closeStack -- we need to continue execution now put "false" into gDialogFlag pass closeStack end closeStack on escapeKey acceptNOTTheEntry end escapeKey on returnKey acceptTheEntry pass returnKey to top end returnKey From sanke at hrz.uni-kassel.de Sat Jun 25 17:10:31 2005 From: sanke at hrz.uni-kassel.de (Wilhelm Sanke) Date: Sat, 25 Jun 2005 23:10:31 +0200 Subject: Deep-mask feature and alwaysbuffer Message-ID: <42BDC847.5080204@hrz.uni-kassel.de> When trying to use the new deep-mask feature of Rev 2.6 (engine version 2.6.5, build 108) I experienced odd behavior while using the Metacard IDE (Windows XP) After setting the windowshape of a new stack to the ID of the imported semi-transparent PNG, the stack completely vanished. Testing the visibility of the stack in the message box ("put the vis of this stack") returned "true". After some experimenting I found out: - when the windowshape is set, the image disappears - at the same time a screenshot is taken inside the area of the stack - with the effect that the stack is no longer visible - you can test that the stack is there by setting the loc of the stack to a different point: the stack with the screenshot will now stand out as visible - clicking on the stack - in pointer mode - will make the imported image visible again - saving the stack now, quitting the Metacard IDE, restarting Metacard and opening the saved stack: The stack remains invisible. As a workaround I put into the preopenstack handler: "lock screen choose pointer tool click at the loc of this stack" This helped. What helped likewise was the script Scott Rossi used for his "psychedelic bug", interestingly this made the stack visible again, too. > (Try this on OSX, using a stack with a deep mask applied: > > lock screen > unlock screen with visual "dissolve" > > See anything unusual? > > Regards, > > Scott Rossi) In the Rev IDE, when applying the new deep-mask feature the stack remains visible, also a stack created and saved in the Rev IDE can be opened as visible in the Metacard IDE. Hence, as the engine used in both IDEs is identical (2.6.5, build 108), there had to be some difference in the IDEs when the stack is created and saved. Eventually I found out that the culprit is "alwaysbuffer": In the Rev IDE a newly created stack has the default setting of "alwaysbuffer = true" ("Buffer display" in the stack inspector is checked) whereas in the MC IDE the default setting is "false" (mctools-version 2.6B11). Setting alwaysbuffer to true when creating a new stack In the MC IDE solves the described problems - and un-checking "Buffer display" for a new stack in the Rev IDE lets you experience the weird behavior I have described above. If these peculiarities are intended, a remark about the necessity to set the alwaybuffer-property for a stack to true when using the deep-mask feature should be added to the "windowshape" entry of the documentation. Regards, Wilhelm Sanke Message-ID: <000001c579cc$a8f4ec40$0401a8c0@HERMES> Hi Xavier, I've just tested this on WinXP (on NTFS) by: 1) creating a new stack 2) setting it's filename property to 'FooBar.rev' 3) saving the stack using 'save stack' This results in a stack saved to disk with the filename 'FooBar.rev' in the defaultFolder. Furthermore just to rule out IDE oddities: using the IDE retains the case of the filename - 'Save As...' and then renaming to Foobar.rev results in the stack having an appropriate filename (i.e. Foobar.rev) as expected. Therefore I conclude that there must be something else going on in your case and this is not necessarily Revolution related. A couple of things to check are: - the type of filesystem you are saving to (some FS's will normalise filenames to *their* choice) - the filename property of the stack you are saving is mixed-case before doing 'save stack' Warmest Regards, Mark Waddingham Chief Technical Officer. ----- Original Message ----- From: "MisterX" To: "'How to use Revolution'" Sent: Saturday, June 25, 2005 10:29 AM Subject: Strange saving behavior > Hi everyone, > > Another day, another issue > > On windows, when i use the command: > > save stack thisstack > > The "filename" in windows is put to lowercase... Is there a way to prevent > this? Because of my case sensitive ftp, the way i like how i case the > names, > i dont want this!!!! Sure doesn't look normal. How are linux users > affected > i wonder? > > Can anyone from rev explain maybe? > > I want to file a CRITICAL on this! ;) > > cheers > Xavier > > > _______________________________________________ > use-revolution mailing list > use-revolution at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution From mark at maseurope.net Sun Jun 26 14:27:13 2005 From: mark at maseurope.net (Mark Smith) Date: Sun, 26 Jun 2005 19:27:13 +0100 Subject: "repeat for each" in reverse order ? In-Reply-To: <42BD9B1C.4090601@comcast.net> References: <42BD1E22.E3072AE9@Club-Internet.fr> <42BD9B1C.4090601@comcast.net> Message-ID: <5de8f299326a9caa39ea05e96b49b21b@maseurope.net> How about put the keys of myArray into kList repeat for each line L in kList put cr & L before newKlist end repeat delete char 1 of newKlist repeat for each line L in newKlist --doStuff end repeat It's two loops, admittedly, but unless it's a very big array, it'd be really quick. You could also put the first loop into a separate function if you need to do this in many different places in your code. Cheers, Mark Smith On 25 Jun 2005, at 18:57, Phil Davis wrote: > It sounds like you're looking for a feature that doesn't yet exist (or > at least I'm not aware of it). I could see having a property that > defines the direction in which the 'repeat for each' structure does > its looping, like this: > > set the repeatDirection to "descending" -- or "down", "reverse", ??? > repeat for each element x in y > -- actions > end repeat > > That would be a nice feature indeed. No harm in requesting it! > > Phil Davis > > > > jbv wrote: >> Hi list, >> Is there a way to use >> "repeat for each element thisIndexTerm in listOfTerms" >> in reverse order, like in >> "repeat with i=number of items of myVar down to 1" ? >> Thanks, >> JB >> _______________________________________________ >> use-revolution mailing list >> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >> subscription preferences: >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution > > _______________________________________________ > use-revolution mailing list > use-revolution at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution > From wdesigns at austin.rr.com Sun Jun 26 14:37:14 2005 From: wdesigns at austin.rr.com (Douglas Westbrook) Date: Sun, 26 Jun 2005 13:37:14 -0500 Subject: Can Dreamcard access Runtimime standalone? Message-ID: <5BBD2642-3337-42C2-95B4-92AACAE87D28@austin.rr.com> I don't have Dreamcard. Can somebody who does have Dreamcard tell me if Dreamcard can access custom properties from a standalone created with Runtime Revolution and can Dreamcard open a Revolution .rev file that is not a standalone? Thanks for any help. Doug From dsc at swcp.com Sat Jun 25 14:35:09 2005 From: dsc at swcp.com (Dar Scott) Date: Sat, 25 Jun 2005 12:35:09 -0600 Subject: "repeat for each" in reverse order ? In-Reply-To: <42BD1E22.E3072AE9@Club-Internet.fr> References: <42BD1E22.E3072AE9@Club-Internet.fr> Message-ID: <621bc0e4ee380300912b81c230c67727@swcp.com> On Jun 25, 2005, at 3:04 AM, jbv wrote: > Is there a way to use > "repeat for each element thisIndexTerm in listOfTerms" > in reverse order, like in > "repeat with i=number of items of myVar down to 1" ? I don't think there is an order in 'repeat for each element'. I think the elements are processed in some seemingly arbitrary order. In any case... You can get the keys of the array and sort them in the order you want and then loop through the keys with 'repeat for each line'. Dar -- ********************************************** DSC (Dar Scott Consulting & Dar's Lab) http://www.swcp.com/dsc/ Programming and software ********************************************** From europe at ehug.info Sun Jun 26 14:31:49 2005 From: europe at ehug.info (Mark Schonewille) Date: Sun, 26 Jun 2005 20:31:49 +0200 Subject: Control of ask-dialogs position in Windows standalone In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <42BEF495.20709@ehug.info> Hi Kresten, I can think of two approaches. One approach needs some editing of the stack "Ask Dialog", the other uses a custom dialog. I'll tell how you might edit the stack "Ask Dialog" as you probably know how to create a custom dialog. Edit the script of the stack "Ask Dialog". There, you will see: on openCard end openCard on preOpenCard end preOpenCard on closeCard end closeCard on openStack end openStack Change the preOpenCard handler to the following (mind linewraps): on preOpenCard if the cCustomLoc of me is a point then set the loc of me to the cCustomLoc of me end preOpenCard In the script where you want to execute the ask command, now include the following: set the cCustomLoc of stack "Ask Dialog" to 1920,512 ask "Hello World?" with "Hello indeed!" put it into myUserInput --or any other variable set the cCustomLoc of stack "Ask Dialog" to empty -- rest of script You will need to determine the right value for cCustomLoc yourself, although I think it can be calculated from the screenrect. Best, Mark Kresten Bjerg wrote: > I am working with large cards, 3x3 screens, and have 5 ask-dialogs, all > called from primary (upper left) screenwindow. In mac versions these > dialogs appear as they are meant to, centered in that primary window. > But in a Windows standalone the dialogs appear - out of sight - in the > next (middle) screen, thus not answerable-(except blindly), and blocking > all activity. Is there a way to fix the position of such ask-dialogues > to a specified screen-position? > > Kresten Bjerg -- eHUG coordinator mailto:europe at ehug.info http://www.ehug.info http://home.wanadoo.nl/mark.sch http://www.economy-x-talk.com Please inform me about vacancies in the field of general economics at your institute. I am also looking for new freelance programming projects. From see3d at writeme.com Sun Jun 26 15:18:25 2005 From: see3d at writeme.com (Dennis Brown) Date: Sun, 26 Jun 2005 15:18:25 -0400 Subject: "repeat for each" in reverse order ? In-Reply-To: <42BD1E22.E3072AE9@Club-Internet.fr> References: <42BD1E22.E3072AE9@Club-Internet.fr> Message-ID: <1D1F70B1-E2AD-49E5-A361-441DEE1C49AB@writeme.com> JB, The repeat for each only goes in forward sequential order starting at the beginning, except for arrays where the order is indeterminate. I have requested a sequential access enhancement to allow for constructing this type of looping in a more flexible way (like parallel instantiation, starting at an arbitrary point, and reverse order), to make it possible to wander all over your data sequentially with the speed of the repeat for each method. However, it would be most useful with some improved string delimiter handling. Bugzilla # 2773 Dennis On Jun 25, 2005, at 5:04 AM, jbv wrote: > Hi list, > > Is there a way to use > "repeat for each element thisIndexTerm in listOfTerms" > in reverse order, like in > "repeat with i=number of items of myVar down to 1" ? > > Thanks, > JB > > _______________________________________________ > use-revolution mailing list > use-revolution at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution > > > > From europe at ehug.info Sun Jun 26 15:20:25 2005 From: europe at ehug.info (Mark Schonewille) Date: Sun, 26 Jun 2005 21:20:25 +0200 Subject: Custom Modal List Dialog Methodology In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <42BEFFF9.6060904@ehug.info> Stephen, Modal dialog windows prevent scripts that are not in the modal stack from continuing to execute. That is why I usually put a function like yours into the modal stack itself. The function may open the stack and wait with messages until there is no window , before returning the dialogdata. Most of the time, I don't use a function for that. I send a message to the dialog window to open itself. The script from where I send that message will halt until the window has disappeared. In the OK button, I include a separate script to set the dialogData. In this way, you don't need to wait with messages. Once the dialog has closed, the script from where the message to open it was sent, will continue and can read out the dialogData. Best regards, Mark Stephen Barncard wrote: > I'm currently recreating in REV what I used to use a Rinaldi XCMD for... > namely a listbox dialog for choosing items from a list. > > The idea is to have a function > > > function listbox pPromptData,pListData > > that puts up a window with a prompt field, and a list field. Select and > click an item or hit return or enter. Standard GUI stuff. > > This would return the selected item or empty. > > > I've created the new window/stack, I'm using dialogData to pass the info > back and forth, and I have the function that sets up the data and opens > the window. I had figured on using wait with messages to halt script > execution until the dialog was closed, but I can't seem to send the > right message to it from the dialog closing to get it to go to the next > line of code, 'BEEP'. I also tried changing a variable. Anyone found the > best way to deal with this? > > Eventually I'd like to be able do it all from a script on the fly - > create the window,fields, buttons, everything, from a text description > before display like I used to do in WindowScript... it's all about > properties, after all.... > > thanks... > > --this is located in the stack script of the calling stack > --scrunch converts returns to VTs to get more data in dialogdata > > function dialogList pPrompt,pListData > global gDialogFlag > if there is a stack "listDialog" > then > put scrunch(pPrompt) & return & scrunch(pListData) into tDialogTxt > set the dialogData to tDialogTxt > --- put the dialogData > -- exit to top > put "true" into gDialogFlag > open stack "listDialog" <------ this is the dialog > wait with messages > -- wait until gDialogFlag is "false" with messages?? > beep <--------this never executes > else > answer "Can't find stack: listDialog" > exit to top > end if > return the dialogData > end dialogList -- eHUG coordinator mailto:europe at ehug.info http://www.ehug.info http://home.wanadoo.nl/mark.sch http://www.economy-x-talk.com Please inform me about vacancies in the field of general economics at your institute. I am also looking for new freelance programming projects. From claudi.c at fiberworld.nl Sun Jun 26 15:55:35 2005 From: claudi.c at fiberworld.nl (Claudi Cornaz) Date: Sun, 26 Jun 2005 21:55:35 +0200 Subject: How to put a dash in front of a menu item Message-ID: <42ECAA6F-E67C-11D9-AA00-000A959BA7DC@fiberworld.nl> Hi all Still working/improving my demo of a textMenu. It's almost ready. I can now also increase/decrease textsizes. Lighten/darken is just a snap away (it's the same as increase/decrease with a slight twist) and the menu displayscorrectly all attributes. There is just one thing I'd like to add to it: putting a dash in front of a menu(item). Is there a way I can achieve this? This way the user could see if a selection has mixed attributes or if it's all the same. The way I found in the documentation, and after some tests (like putting a \ in front of the "-" which does'n't give quite the desired effect. ) it doesn't work. As far as I discovered we can put a checkMark or a diamond in front of a menu but not a dash. I hope I am wrong, am I? In case we indeed, can't put a dash in front of a menu, wouldn't this be a usefull enhanchement? Should I, in a yet to figure out way, post this as a request? All best wishes Claudi From nicolas_cueto at yahoo.com Sun Jun 26 17:52:49 2005 From: nicolas_cueto at yahoo.com (Nicolas Cueto) Date: Mon, 27 Jun 2005 06:52:49 +0900 Subject: IP conflict? References: <003201c57707$80baa840$0b01a8c0@niconiko04zbtb> <7B5C0C13-3847-4D9C-8299-D162DBFA35F2@major-k.de> Message-ID: <007801c57a99$66247f20$0b01a8c0@niconiko04zbtb> Hello All, Ok, the problem. A request for data made to a server stack by stacks via a LAN will on occassion return empty. Sometimes things work perfectly and all eight stacks will receive the data. But when at times one or two of the stacks do not receive the requested data, the user must restart their stack, which "solution" always works. My guess is that the incoming requests for data may be overwhelming the server, and creating a bottleneck of sorts. In which case, what might be a solution? If it helps, below are the relevant script portions from both the server and the host stacks, in the order they are triggered. As always, thank you in advance, Nicolas Cueto ////////////////////////////// ## 1. THE DATA-REQUEST SCRIPT ## ON A LOCAL STACK on mouseUp put "192.168.1.11:8025|" & gLocalStackID & "Two" into tSocket open socket to tSocket with message "VSenditTwo" wait 1 second with messages end mouseUp on VsenditTwo v put "DataKudasai!" & return into tdata put gLocalIP & return & gUserID & return after tdata put ")(*&^%$#@!" after tdata write tdata to socket v close socket v end VsenditTwo ##2. THE DATA-REQUEST RECEIVED ##AND DATA-TO-BE-SENT SCRIPTS ##ON THE SERVER STACK on netConnectOne incomingMessageOne read from socket incomingMessageOne until ")(*&^%$#@!" delete the last line of it put return after it put it into receivedData close socket incomingMessageOne if "DataKudasai!" is in receivedData then put line 3 of receivedData into tUserID put line 2 of receivedData into tHostIP loadConcentrationData -- READ DATA FROM LOCAL FILE wait 1 second with messages put tData & return & "kagiNoBunOwari" & return into tDataDesu put tDataDesu into tOutMessageTwelve put "DataDesu" into tOutMessageTypeTwelve put tHostIP & ":8080|ServTwelve" into tHostPath open socket to tHostPath with message "sendItTwelve" end if end netConnectOne on sendItTwelve sTwelve put tOutMessageTypeTwelve & "!" & return into tdata put tOutMessageTwelve & return after tdata put ")(*&^%$#@!" after tdata write tdata to socket sTwelve close socket sTwelve end sendItTwelve ##3. THE DATA-RECEIVED SCRIPT ##ON THE LOCAL STACK on netConnectOne incomingMessageOne put empty into tRawReceivedDataOne repeat -- FIGURE MESSAGE LENGTH read from socket incomingMessageOne for 100 lines put it after tTempIncoming if ")(*&^%$#@!" is among the lines of tTempIncoming then exit repeat end repeat put tTempIncoming into it delete the last line of it put return after it put it into receivedData close socket incomingMessageOne if "DataDesu!" is in receivedData then put receivedData into tRawReceivedDataTwo processReceivedDataTwo end if end netConnectOne ////////////////////////////// From europe at ehug.info Sat Jun 25 09:24:36 2005 From: europe at ehug.info (Mark Schonewille) Date: Sat, 25 Jun 2005 15:24:36 +0200 Subject: Control of ask-dialogs position in Windows standalone In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <42BD5B14.8080802@ehug.info> Hi Kresten, I can think of two approaches. One approach needs some editing of the stack "Ask Dialog", the other uses a custom dialog. I'll tell how you might edit the stack "Ask Dialog" as you probably know how to create a custom dialog. Edit the script of the stack "Ask Dialog". There, you will see: on openCard end openCard on preOpenCard end preOpenCard on closeCard end closeCard on openStack end openStack Change the preOpenCard handler to the following (mind linewraps): on preOpenCard if the cCustomLoc of me is a point then set the loc of me to the cCustomLoc of me end preOpenCard In the script where you want to execute the ask command, now include the following: set the cCustomLoc of stack "Ask Dialog" to 1920,512 ask "Hello World?" with "Hello indeed!" put it into myUserInput --or any other variable set the cCustomLoc of stack "Ask Dialog" to empty -- rest of script You will need to determine the right value for cCustomLoc yourself, although I think it can be calculated from the screenrect. Best, Mark Kresten Bjerg wrote: > I am working with large cards, 3x3 screens, and have 5 ask-dialogs, all > called from primary (upper left) screenwindow. In mac versions these > dialogs appear as they are meant to, centered in that primary window. > But in a Windows standalone the dialogs appear - out of sight - in the > next (middle) screen, thus not answerable-(except blindly), and blocking > all activity. Is there a way to fix the position of such ask-dialogues > to a specified screen-position? > > Kresten Bjerg -- eHUG coordinator mailto:europe at ehug.info http://www.ehug.info http://home.wanadoo.nl/mark.sch http://www.economy-x-talk.com Please inform me about vacancies in the field of general economics at your institute. I am also looking for new freelance programming projects. From dsc at swcp.com Sun Jun 26 18:34:40 2005 From: dsc at swcp.com (Dar Scott) Date: Sun, 26 Jun 2005 16:34:40 -0600 Subject: IP conflict? In-Reply-To: <007801c57a99$66247f20$0b01a8c0@niconiko04zbtb> References: <003201c57707$80baa840$0b01a8c0@niconiko04zbtb> <7B5C0C13-3847-4D9C-8299-D162DBFA35F2@major-k.de> <007801c57a99$66247f20$0b01a8c0@niconiko04zbtb> Message-ID: <49ef330820f71a9423213a3a5168288b@swcp.com> On Jun 26, 2005, at 3:52 PM, Nicolas Cueto wrote: > Ok, the problem. A request for data > made to a server stack by stacks via > a LAN will on occassion return empty. The method you have can create multiple sockets with the same socket id. This can cause confusion in write, read and close. For TCP, there is no need to separate the response connection from the query connection. You have used variables starting with a t as if they are global, but I don't see any global declaration. Some people use the t prefix as meaning local to the handler (strictly, the call of the handler). I don't see a reason for the 'wait with messages' in the first handler. The second one (in the netConnectOne handler) can cause nested responses, so if some of those variables are global then the values will get scrambled. This might cause both responses to go to only one client. Dar -- ********************************************** DSC (Dar Scott Consulting & Dar's Lab) http://www.swcp.com/dsc/ Programming and software ********************************************** From sarahr at genesearch.com.au Sun Jun 26 18:43:01 2005 From: sarahr at genesearch.com.au (Sarah Reichelt) Date: Mon, 27 Jun 2005 08:43:01 +1000 Subject: Cursed Cursor In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <7687FB49-52D8-42AD-9BA3-34F74AE69842@genesearch.com.au> > I'm getting the garbage when the default cursor is supposed to be > displayed. It makes it hard to see the 'hot spot'. > > I remember seeing someone had this problem before -- which rev > internal stack is supposed to handle this, and does swapping it out > for a fresh stack fix the problem? > > Also is it possible for a graphic in the top stack to cause this ? > Hi Stephen, I see this too every now & then but haven't been able to work out what causes it. If you get Chipp's altSQLite demo stack, it contains his altCursorLib which fixes it by constantly resetting the cursor to whatever it should be. Here is the address: However, this is just a work-around. The problem still exists and needs to be fixed. Hopefully RunRev's current bug fix push will find the solution. Cheers, Sarah From wow at together.net Sun Jun 26 18:50:02 2005 From: wow at together.net (Richard Miller) Date: Sun, 26 Jun 2005 18:50:02 -0400 Subject: Internet file transfer In-Reply-To: <42BCEF2B.9070503@hyperactivesw.com> References: <42BCEF2B.9070503@hyperactivesw.com> Message-ID: <44659d43f5f5e5c96e942e2b4c4339a1@together.net> Our software needs to transfer 1-2 MB files to and from a dedicated server on a regular basis (generally 5-10 times per hour for any given user). The connection is always via DSL or cable modem, but reliability is still critical. If a file transfer should be interrupted for any reason and not complete, we need to know this and restart it repeatedly until it's successful. We've been testing various methods to accomplish this transfer, including: get URL / put URL libURLftpUpload libURLftpUploadFile / libURLDownloadFile libURLSetStatusCallBack load / unload Haven't use Open Socket, Close Socket, Write To Socket and Read To Socket yet. I'm looking for suggestions on the most reliable way to transfer these files and to know the transfer was successful. Speed is not critical... we're getting adequate performance with any of these methods. It doesn't matter a great deal whether the transfer happens in the foreground or background (i.e. blocking or non-blocking), but in almost all cases, our program will need to wait for the transfer to complete before the next task can be performed. Thanks a great deal for help with this. Richard Miller Imprinter Technologies From dsc at swcp.com Sun Jun 26 19:01:00 2005 From: dsc at swcp.com (Dar Scott) Date: Sun, 26 Jun 2005 17:01:00 -0600 Subject: IP conflict? In-Reply-To: <49ef330820f71a9423213a3a5168288b@swcp.com> References: <003201c57707$80baa840$0b01a8c0@niconiko04zbtb> <7B5C0C13-3847-4D9C-8299-D162DBFA35F2@major-k.de> <007801c57a99$66247f20$0b01a8c0@niconiko04zbtb> <49ef330820f71a9423213a3a5168288b@swcp.com> Message-ID: <0b4b9830c0b99ce1c05b08dc97afeb18@swcp.com> On Jun 26, 2005, at 4:34 PM, Dar Scott wrote: > The second one (in the netConnectOne handler) can cause nested > responses, so if some of those variables are global then the values > will get scrambled. This might cause both responses to go to only one > client. I didn't word that well. The 'wait with messages' in the middle of the accept message handler can allow a new accept message to be processed in the middle of another. Suppose connections come in from client A and then client B. It is possible for the first half of execution of netConnectOne is executed for A, then the first half for B, then the second half for B, then the second half for A. Dar -- ********************************************** DSC (Dar Scott Consulting & Dar's Lab) http://www.swcp.com/dsc/ Programming and software ********************************************** From tominjapan at excite.com Sun Jun 26 19:06:31 2005 From: tominjapan at excite.com (Thomas McCarthy) Date: Sun, 26 Jun 2005 19:06:31 -0400 (EDT) Subject: "repeat for each" in reverse order ? Message-ID: <20050626230631.A94B1B91A@xprdmailfe14.nwk.excite.com> I'm pretty sure you can do it--because I do it (and I'm not a guru) Here's what I do: put the num of items in myVariable into tnum --or lines, or words,or.. repeat with i = tnum down to 1 do something with item i of myVariable --drink coffee end repeat _______________________________________________ Join Excite! - http://www.excite.com The most personalized portal on the Web! From sarahr at genesearch.com.au Sun Jun 26 19:08:08 2005 From: sarahr at genesearch.com.au (Sarah Reichelt) Date: Mon, 27 Jun 2005 09:08:08 +1000 Subject: Internet file transfer In-Reply-To: <44659d43f5f5e5c96e942e2b4c4339a1@together.net> References: <42BCEF2B.9070503@hyperactivesw.com> <44659d43f5f5e5c96e942e2b4c4339a1@together.net> Message-ID: <62568BA5-DF25-4C57-A998-0904AB7CFD6A@genesearch.com.au> > Our software needs to transfer 1-2 MB files to and from a dedicated > server on a regular basis (generally 5-10 times per hour for any > given user). The connection is always via DSL or cable modem, but > reliability is still critical. If a file transfer should be > interrupted for any reason and not complete, we need to know this > and restart it repeatedly until it's successful. I use libURLftpUploadFile with a callback message for when the upload is finished and a repeated handler to check the URLstatus. When finished, I get the FTP directory listing and compare the size of the uploaded file to the size locally and if they are not the same, or if the URLstatus ever contained the word "error", then I know something has gone wrong and I need to try again. HTH, Sarah From wow at together.net Sun Jun 26 19:40:49 2005 From: wow at together.net (Richard Miller) Date: Sun, 26 Jun 2005 19:40:49 -0400 Subject: Internet file transfer In-Reply-To: <62568BA5-DF25-4C57-A998-0904AB7CFD6A@genesearch.com.au> References: <42BCEF2B.9070503@hyperactivesw.com> <44659d43f5f5e5c96e942e2b4c4339a1@together.net> <62568BA5-DF25-4C57-A998-0904AB7CFD6A@genesearch.com.au> Message-ID: <3cbc4679dbe01a8e16956366d9c78888@together.net> This is the kind of feedback I'm really looking for. Very useful. Thanks. Richard On Jun 26, 2005, at 7:08 PM, Sarah Reichelt wrote: >> Our software needs to transfer 1-2 MB files to and from a dedicated >> server on a regular basis (generally 5-10 times per hour for any >> given user). The connection is always via DSL or cable modem, but >> reliability is still critical. If a file transfer should be >> interrupted for any reason and not complete, we need to know this and >> restart it repeatedly until it's successful. > > I use libURLftpUploadFile with a callback message for when the upload > is finished and a repeated handler to check the URLstatus. > > When finished, I get the FTP directory listing and compare the size of > the uploaded file to the size locally and if they are not the same, or > if the URLstatus ever contained the word "error", then I know > something has gone wrong and I need to try again. > > HTH, > Sarah > > _______________________________________________ > use-revolution mailing list > use-revolution at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution > From SimPLsol at aol.com Sun Jun 26 19:56:58 2005 From: SimPLsol at aol.com (SimPLsol at aol.com) Date: Sun, 26 Jun 2005 19:56:58 EDT Subject: Cursed Cursor Message-ID: <1fc.465d2ec.2ff09aca@aol.com> This is bug 885. The Rev team is aware of it. Still, a few more votes won't hurt. Don't be mislead by the title - this is not just an OS 7.5 bug. Paul Looney From revdan at danshafer.com Sun Jun 26 21:34:45 2005 From: revdan at danshafer.com (Dan Shafer) Date: Sun, 26 Jun 2005 18:34:45 -0700 Subject: Can Dreamcard access Runtimime standalone? In-Reply-To: <5BBD2642-3337-42C2-95B4-92AACAE87D28@austin.rr.com> References: <5BBD2642-3337-42C2-95B4-92AACAE87D28@austin.rr.com> Message-ID: <5179C4B5-F8FA-467B-9F3A-06CE8018E65E@danshafer.com> Dreamcard is designed to give Rev developers a way to distribute stacks (which are small) to people who have the Dreamcard Player, avoiding the necessity of distributing large stand-alone applications. So the answer to your first question is that a standalone doesn't require Dreamcard or anything else to run (that's why it's called a standalone). A standalone cannot be edited in Dreamcard either. But the stack(s) from which the standlone is created in Revolution can be run in the Dreamcard Player and as far as I know there is no restriction on access to custom properties in that case. On Jun 26, 2005, at 11:37 AM, Douglas Westbrook wrote: > I don't have Dreamcard. Can somebody who does have Dreamcard tell > me if Dreamcard can access custom properties from a standalone > created with Runtime Revolution and can Dreamcard open a > Revolution .rev file that is not a standalone? > Thanks for any help. > Doug > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Dan Shafer, Revolution Consultant and Author http://www.shafermedia.com Get my book, "Revolution: Software at the Speed of Thought" From http://www.shafermedia.com/revolutionbooks.html From revolution at jaedworks.com Sun Jun 26 18:01:55 2005 From: revolution at jaedworks.com (Jeanne A. E. DeVoto) Date: Sun, 26 Jun 2005 15:01:55 -0700 Subject: Fast/slow code example (was: Re: compileIt for revolution?) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: At 1:09 PM -0600 6/24/2005, Dar Scott wrote: >On Jun 24, 2005, at 12:42 PM, Jim Bufalini wrote: > >>However, the "repeat with i =" form being slower than the "repeat for each" >>was news to me! > >It should be mentioned in the docs. (And probably is and I don't know where.) In the dictionary for the "repeat" control structure. ;-) "Use the for each form if you want to perform an action on each chunk in a container. This form is much faster than the with countVariable = startValue to endValue form when looping through the chunks of a container." (It doesn't go into detail about why this is so, though, and that would be interesting and perhaps useful information to add.) There also used to be some mentions of this in the cookbook, although the cookbook seems to have gone away. -- jeanne a. e. devoto ~ revolution at jaedworks.com http://www.jaedworks.com From alex at tweedly.net Sun Jun 26 20:23:27 2005 From: alex at tweedly.net (Alex Tweedly) Date: Mon, 27 Jun 2005 01:23:27 +0100 Subject: compileIt for revolution? In-Reply-To: References: <42BBEDE8.4010109@sover.net> Message-ID: <42BF46FF.30005@tweedly.net> I sent this message Saturday, and it just came back to me as bounced (because the list-server was off-line). So here it is again - with an addendum ... >Geoff Canyon wrote: > > > >>On Jun 24, 2005, at 4:26 AM, Jon wrote: >> >> >> >>>With all due respect, Jim, if you are trying to do even simple math >>>on a large array of numbers (like computing a histogram of image >>>data), Rev is simply too slow to use. It has nothing to do with >>>data structures: it has to do with slow pCode trying to run tight >>>loops. >>> >>> >>As stated previously, I cannot accept this statement/conclusion >>without seeing the code in question. There are simply too many ways >>to write slow code to assume that Rev can't do a task based solely on >>a very general description -- unless the description involves real >>time first-person gaming ;-) >> >> > >Well, the problem Jon mentioned (histogram of image data) is pretty well >defined. To be usable, you need to do it for reasonable size pictures in >less than 1-2 secs. (where "reasonable" is defined to be whatever your camera takes, since >that's the data you're most likely to want a histogram of, in >preparation for controlling contrast, colour balance, etc.) > >Naive code to do it is something like > > >> put 0 into count >> repeat for each char c in the imageData of img "Image" >> switch count mod 4 >> case 0 >> break >> case 1 >> add 1 to tRed[chartonum(c)] >> break >> case 2 >> add 1 tGreen[chartonum(c)] >> break >> case 3 >> add 1 to tBlue[chartonum(c)] >>-- put -1 into count >> break >> default >> put "error " && count into msg >> end switch >> add 1 to count >> end repeat >> displayHistogram tRed, tGreen, tBlue >> >> > >For me, on my fairly puny laptop, that takes around 175 seconds, so I >only need a 300x speedup. > > And with an equally naive C external, it takes about 400 ms - about a quarter of which is formatting the result back suitable for Rev, and then Rev reformatting it suitable for my displayHistogram function. I tried some other Transcript approaches (I think the fastest one I found was replacing the unused bytes by 'cr's sorting lines by char 1 of each (remembering to set caseSensitive to true first !!) scanning through the lines, counting as you go until char 1 changes, then putting that count into the appropriate array element and repeat the sort + scan for char 2 and char 3 in turn This brought the time needed for a small photo (800x600) from 14 secs down to 7; unfortunately on a large photo that took more than 5 minutes, and increased my Windows Virtual Memory twice. But even on the small photo the time taken is still enough to make it unusable. -- Alex Tweedly http://www.tweedly.net -------------- next part -------------- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.323 / Virus Database: 267.8.1/28 - Release Date: 24/06/2005 From dsc at swcp.com Sun Jun 26 22:10:40 2005 From: dsc at swcp.com (Dar Scott) Date: Sun, 26 Jun 2005 20:10:40 -0600 Subject: Fast/slow code example (was: Re: compileIt for revolution?) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <36d4ebe728e1ea0f81b37251a5b4f92a@swcp.com> On Jun 26, 2005, at 4:01 PM, Jeanne A. E. DeVoto wrote: >> It should be mentioned in the docs. (And probably is and I don't >> know where.) > > In the dictionary for the "repeat" control structure. ;-) I thought it would be, but when I skimmed over that, I missed it. Dar From alex at tweedly.net Sun Jun 26 19:34:50 2005 From: alex at tweedly.net (Alex Tweedly) Date: Mon, 27 Jun 2005 00:34:50 +0100 Subject: Can Dreamcard access Runtimime standalone? In-Reply-To: <5BBD2642-3337-42C2-95B4-92AACAE87D28@austin.rr.com> References: <5BBD2642-3337-42C2-95B4-92AACAE87D28@austin.rr.com> Message-ID: <42BF3B9A.6060404@tweedly.net> Douglas Westbrook wrote: > I don't have Dreamcard. Can somebody who does have Dreamcard tell me > if Dreamcard can access custom properties from a standalone created > with Runtime Revolution as far as I know, once it's in a standalone, even a full version of Rev can't access the custom props - they're buried within an executable ... > and can Dreamcard open a Revolution .rev file that is not a standalone? Yes it can. -- Alex Tweedly http://www.tweedly.net -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.323 / Virus Database: 267.8.1/28 - Release Date: 24/06/2005 From 3mcgrath at adelphia.net Sun Jun 26 22:27:43 2005 From: 3mcgrath at adelphia.net (Thomas McGrath III) Date: Sun, 26 Jun 2005 22:27:43 -0400 Subject: "repeat for each" in reverse order ? In-Reply-To: <20050626230631.A94B1B91A@xprdmailfe14.nwk.excite.com> References: <20050626230631.A94B1B91A@xprdmailfe14.nwk.excite.com> Message-ID: You can also do repeat with i = (the num of items in myVar) down to 1 -- do something end repeat Tom On Jun 26, 2005, at 7:06 PM, Thomas McCarthy wrote: > > I'm pretty sure you can do it--because I do it (and I'm not a guru) > Here's what I do: > > put the num of items in myVariable into tnum --or lines, or words,or.. > repeat with i = tnum down to 1 > do something with item i of myVariable > --drink coffee > end repeat > > > _______________________________________________ > Join Excite! - http://www.excite.com > The most personalized portal on the Web! > > > _______________________________________________ > use-revolution mailing list > use-revolution at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution > > Thomas J. McGrath III SCS 1000 Killarney Dr. Pittsburgh, PA 15234 412-885-8541 From ridge11103 at btinternet.com Sun Jun 26 05:01:55 2005 From: ridge11103 at btinternet.com (John Ridge) Date: Sun, 26 Jun 2005 10:01:55 +0100 Subject: XP arithmetic Message-ID: I've just hit something that seems to me very weird. I'd appreciate any thoughts. The (tiny) problem is to calculate the interest due on a sum of common-law compensation - our client X paid certain sums over a period; the court has now agreed that they should not have been required to pay. OK, they get the money back - plus interest at R%. This represents the interest they would have earned if each payment had, at the time it was made, gone into a high-interest savings account. My first thought was that this was a future value calculation, so I used Excel - but I couldn't get sensible answers. Fine - write a tiny stack to do it iteratively. While I was at it, I allowed for daily, weekly or monthly (28-day lunar) compounding periods (shouldn't really make much difference). I then display the amount of interest, and the effective annual interest rate R*. This is just the percentage increase of the basic compensation award, adjusted for the length of time - so we multiply by, for example (365 / ) - if the period is more than a year, this deflates the percentage increase to the effective annual rate and vice versa. The relevant bit of script is as follows:- set the numberFormat to "0.00" put "?" & (tCumInterest - tTotalAmount) into fld "InterestDue" put "?" & tCumInterest into fld "TotalAmount" put ((tCumInterest - tTotalAmount)/tTotalAmount) * 100 into tAnnRate if "Daily" is in gPeriod then put tAnnRate * 365/tDays into tAnnRate if "Weekly" is in gPeriod then put tAnnRate * 52/tDays into tAnnRate if "Monthly" is in gPeriod then put tAnnRate * 13/tDays into tAnnRate put tAnnRate & "%" into fld "OverallRate" -- I apologise for tdays - it is really "number of compounding periods" This works perfectly on a G4 Mac OS 9.3. I decided that it might be a useful gadget for people in the office, so I made a standalone for XP. That doesn't work - the effective interest rate is not adjusted for length of the period. This is not a problem with the pop-up menu - the XP version knows elsewhere whether it is doing a daily, weekly or monthly calculation. The percentage increase tAnnRate is correct. Somehow the expressions "365/tDays" etc are evaluating to 1. But only in the XP standalone... Sorry to have gone on at such length, but I've had trouble believing what I'm seeing here. If anyone is interested, I'm sharing the stack in user area "jmr" as "Interest" -- From alex at tweedly.net Sun Jun 26 07:59:06 2005 From: alex at tweedly.net (Alex Tweedly) Date: Sun, 26 Jun 2005 12:59:06 +0100 Subject: is within ... polygon shape? In-Reply-To: References: <20050625000512.E88079300F1@mail.runrev.com> Message-ID: <42BE988A.30100@tweedly.net> Jim Hurley wrote: > > Alex, > > Your ascii figures didn't translate very well in my email app. > Sorry. The first figure was (as I think you guessed) a "+" with one shape being the upright and the other being the cross-bar - so neither has vertices within the other shape. > But I think I understand the first diagram, it represent a somewhat > different problem from the collision problem. It would not be possible > to achieve this configuration without one or more apexes entering the > other polygon. > Only in the case you know the initial conditions are such that all shapes are non-overlapping, and you need to detect the start of an overlap. That's often not the case, and wasn't part of Stephen's original problem description on this list. And even then, drag events (or move events for "sprite"-like shapes) do not occur for every pixel - a quick test showed that you get deltas of 10 or more pixels on drag events, so it's not hard for a vertex to cross all the way over a shape in that time, while the shapes remain overlapped for much longer. > What you say is quite true if the problem is to detect any overlapping > area not just a collision. Messy. Even worse, grubby. I'd hate to write a game (or any other app) that didn't detect collisions if you moved the mouse too fast - so I think this is the problem that needs to be solved for a high-quality app. -- Alex Tweedly http://www.tweedly.net -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.323 / Virus Database: 267.8.1/28 - Release Date: 24/06/2005 From wdesigns at austin.rr.com Mon Jun 27 00:05:59 2005 From: wdesigns at austin.rr.com (Douglas Westbrook) Date: Sun, 26 Jun 2005 23:05:59 -0500 Subject: Can Dreamcard access Runtimime standalone? In-Reply-To: <42BF3B9A.6060404@tweedly.net> References: <5BBD2642-3337-42C2-95B4-92AACAE87D28@austin.rr.com> <42BF3B9A.6060404@tweedly.net> Message-ID: <4AC447E7-ACE3-4668-ABE3-E8783DDCB62B@austin.rr.com> Alex, I just retested my open .rev stack accessing custom properties in my standalone, so I know this works. It was only Dreamcard that I am uncertain about. I hate to assume but I guess if it works in Runtime Revolution this way it will work in Dreamcard too? I am thinking of using Dreamcard as the graphic editor for the end user of a file that opens in my standalone which handles communications. Thanks, Doug On Jun 26, 2005, at 6:34 PM, Alex Tweedly wrote: > Douglas Westbrook wrote: > > >> I don't have Dreamcard. Can somebody who does have Dreamcard tell >> me if Dreamcard can access custom properties from a standalone >> created with Runtime Revolution >> > > as far as I know, once it's in a standalone, even a full version of > Rev can't access the custom props - they're buried within an > executable ... > > >> and can Dreamcard open a Revolution .rev file that is not a >> standalone? >> > > Yes it can. > > -- > Alex Tweedly http://www.tweedly.net > > > > -- > No virus found in this outgoing message. > Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. > Version: 7.0.323 / Virus Database: 267.8.1/28 - Release Date: > 24/06/2005 > > _______________________________________________ > use-revolution mailing list > use-revolution at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution > From shedrup at ms9.hinet.net Mon Jun 27 00:38:05 2005 From: shedrup at ms9.hinet.net (Friedrich F. Grohmann) Date: Mon, 27 Jun 2005 12:38:05 +0800 Subject: returnInField doesn't work Message-ID: <200506270439.MAA22904@msr41.hinet.net> My setup is Rev 2.6 on a G4 notebook under Mac OS 10.3.2. The problem: A very simple stack with one field containing text and another field for search purposes. The text is Chinese and so is, of course, the word typed into the search field. The script of the latter uses a returnInField handler to locate text. The same script works fine in the case of Roman text but with the Chinese there is no reaction at all. Nothing happens, nothing. Not even a beep when I added "if me is empty then beep" to the script. It is possible to search the text field from the message box with the find command but this doesn't solve the returnInField problem. Any suggestions most welcome. Fritz From rjb at robelko.com Mon Jun 27 03:57:30 2005 From: rjb at robelko.com (Robert Brenstein) Date: Mon, 27 Jun 2005 09:57:30 +0200 Subject: "repeat for each" in reverse order ? Message-ID: >It sounds like you're looking for a feature that doesn't yet exist >(or at least I'm not aware of it). I could see having a property >that defines the direction in which the 'repeat for each' structure >does its looping, like this: > > set the repeatDirection to "descending" -- or "down", "reverse", ??? > repeat for each element x in y > -- actions > end repeat > >That would be a nice feature indeed. No harm in requesting it! > >Phil Davis I would prefer repeat for each element x in y descending but I doubt whether this would have the performance anywhere close to ascending 'for each' so it is probably pointless to have it. As far as I know, the speed of 'repeat for each' comes from processing elements sequentially and thus without having to recalculate the list pointer position. Robert From tim at leaf25.com Mon Jun 27 04:10:03 2005 From: tim at leaf25.com (tim at leaf25.com) Date: Mon, 27 Jun 2005 01:10:03 -0700 Subject: Rev Toolbar "Group" button - How does it work?! Message-ID: <20050627080838.C06DC824989@mail.runrev.com> Hi All, I am trying to get the same effect as the Rev team have done with the "Group" button on the top toobar. When you click on an object with the "pointer" tool, the Group button on the toolbar immediately becomes available. Likewise, when you deselect the object, the Group button becomes disabled. How can I do this in my own stack? I can't work out what message to trap, as it seems that much fewer messages are sent when the "pointer" tool is selected, as compared to the "browse" tool. Many thanks, Timothy Due http://www.leaf25.com From xbury.cs at clearstream.com Mon Jun 27 04:15:30 2005 From: xbury.cs at clearstream.com (xbury.cs at clearstream.com) Date: Mon, 27 Jun 2005 10:15:30 +0200 Subject: # POSSIBLY SPAM #::Rev Toolbar "Group" button - How does it work?! In-Reply-To: <20050627080838.C06DC824989@mail.runrev.com> Message-ID: Hi Tim, Look at the selectedobjectchanged message. You can see what is in the selection via the selectedobjcets or selobjs function cheers Xavier On 27/06/2005 10:10:03 use-revolution-bounces wrote: >Hi All, > >I am trying to get the same effect as the Rev team have done with the >"Group" button on the top toobar. > >When you click on an object with the "pointer" tool, the Group button on the >toolbar immediately becomes available. Likewise, when you deselect the >object, the Group button becomes disabled. > >How can I do this in my own stack? I can't work out what message to trap, as >it seems that much fewer messages are sent when the "pointer" tool is >selected, as compared to the "browse" tool. > > >Many thanks, > > >Timothy Due >http://www.leaf25.com >_______________________________________________ >use-revolution mailing list >use-revolution at lists.runrev.com >Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription >preferences: >http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution ----------------------------------------- Visit us at http://www.clearstream.com IMPORTANT MESSAGE Internet communications are not secure and therefore Clearstream International does not accept legal responsibility for the contents of this message. The information contained in this e-mail is confidential and may be legally privileged. It is intended solely for the addressee. If you are not the intended recipient, any disclosure, copying, distribution or any action taken or omitted to be taken in reliance on it, is prohibited and may be unlawful. Any views expressed in this e-mail are those of the individual sender, except where the sender specifically states them to be the views of Clearstream International or of any of its affiliates or subsidiaries. END OF DISCLAIMER From Signe.Sanne at roman.uib.no Mon Jun 27 04:47:43 2005 From: Signe.Sanne at roman.uib.no (Signe Marie Sanne) Date: Mon, 27 Jun 2005 10:47:43 +0200 Subject: Alias on MacOS 10.3.9 Message-ID: <42BFBD2F.1070107@roman.uib.no> Hello, I'm trying to create an alias to a folder. On Windows 'file' works, although the shortcut is to a folder and the documentation says that you can only create a shortcut to a file not a folder. Does this apply ontly to Mac since nothing happens on Mac with the script below: put specialfolderPath("pref") & "/IVANAmp/" into framp put there is a folder framp --renders 'true' put specialfolderPath("desktop") & "/IVANAmp/" into tilmp create alias (tilmp) to file framp Any suggestions? -- Signe Marie Sanne 1. amanuensis/Senior lecturer Romansk institutt Tlf. +47 55 58 21 27 ?isteins gt. 1 Epost: signe.sanne at roman.uib.no Universitetet i Bergen http://www.hf.uib.no/mlab/Info/sms.html From alex at tweedly.net Mon Jun 27 05:55:02 2005 From: alex at tweedly.net (Alex Tweedly) Date: Mon, 27 Jun 2005 10:55:02 +0100 Subject: Can Dreamcard access Runtimime standalone? In-Reply-To: <4AC447E7-ACE3-4668-ABE3-E8783DDCB62B@austin.rr.com> References: <5BBD2642-3337-42C2-95B4-92AACAE87D28@austin.rr.com> <42BF3B9A.6060404@tweedly.net> <4AC447E7-ACE3-4668-ABE3-E8783DDCB62B@austin.rr.com> Message-ID: <42BFCCF6.6030306@tweedly.net> Douglas Westbrook wrote: > Alex, > I just retested my open .rev stack accessing custom properties in my > standalone, so I know this works. Then I may have misunderstood what you meant. Could you explain some more detail of what you do, or how you do this, and I will test it in Dreamcard just to be 100% sure .... (If it's practical, feel free to email me off-list enclosing the app & stack and I'll check it). -- Alex Tweedly http://www.tweedly.net -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.323 / Virus Database: 267.8.2/29 - Release Date: 27/06/2005 From ridge11103 at btinternet.com Mon Jun 27 06:03:15 2005 From: ridge11103 at btinternet.com (John Ridge) Date: Mon, 27 Jun 2005 11:03:15 +0100 Subject: Transcript arithmetic Message-ID: I've just hit something that seems to me very weird. I'd appreciate any thoughts. The (tiny) problem is to calculate the interest due on a sum of common-law compensation - our client X paid certain sums over a period; the court has now agreed that they should not have been required to pay. OK, they get the money back - plus interest at R%. This represents the interest they would have earned if each payment had, at the time it was made, gone into a high-interest savings account. My first thought was that this was a future value calculation, so I used Excel - but I couldn't get sensible answers. Fine - write a tiny stack to do it iteratively. While I'm at it, I may as well allow for daily, weekly or monthly (28-day lunar) compounding periods (shouldn't really make much difference). I then display the amount of interest, and the effective annual interest rate R*. This is just the percentage increase of the basic compensation award, adjusted for the length of time - so we multiply by, for example (365 / ) - if the period is more than a year, this deflates the percentage increase to the effective annual rate and vice versa. The relevant bit of script is as follows:- set the numberFormat to "0.00" put "?" & (tCumInterest - tTotalAmount) into fld "InterestDue" put "?" & tCumInterest into fld "TotalAmount" put ((tCumInterest - tTotalAmount)/tTotalAmount) * 100 into tAnnRate if "Daily" is in gPeriod then put tAnnRate * 365/tDays into tAnnRate if "Weekly" is in gPeriod then put tAnnRate * 52/tDays into tAnnRate if "Monthly" is in gPeriod then put tAnnRate * 13/tDays into tAnnRate put tAnnRate & "%" into fld "OverallRate" -- I apologise for tdays - it is really "number of compounding periods" This works perfectly on a G4 Mac OS 9.3 in the IDE. I decided that it might be a useful gadget for people in the office, so I made a standalone for XP. It doesn't work - the effective interest rate is not adjusted for length of the period. This is not a problem with the pop-up menu - the standalone version knows elsewhere whether it is doing a daily, weekly or monthly calculation. The percentage increase tAnnRate is correct. Somehow the expressions "365/tDays" etc are evaluating to 1. But only in the standalone... Sorry to have gone on at such length, but I've had trouble believing what I'm seeing here. If anyone is interested, I'm sharing the stack in user area "jmr" as "Interest" (or words to that effect) - when the RunRev server is back up. I should emphasise that it's a standalone problem - it fails when compiled for Mac OS 9 as well as Windows. Are there known issues like this with the syntax of Transcript when compiled into a standalone? If so, I'd appreciate a pointer. Thanks John -- From jhurley at infostations.com Mon Jun 27 06:11:31 2005 From: jhurley at infostations.com (Jim Hurley) Date: Mon, 27 Jun 2005 03:11:31 -0700 Subject: ANN Testing for overlapping polygons Message-ID: [Hope this isn't a repeat. According to my ISP this was not delivered. Perhaps the problems that Heather warned of over the weekend.] Well, I said it was grubby, but here it is, a stack which test for overlap between polygons. In the message box: go stack url "http://home.infostations.net/jhurley/OverlapTest.rev" I was wondering how RR tests for within(). One way would be to draw a line from the point in question to the edge of the screen. If there are an odd number of intersections with the lines of the polygon, then the point is inside, otherwise it is outside. But how does RR paste a color into an opaque polygon, how does it know which pixels are inside and which outside the polygon? It doesn't test for all points, of which there are an infinite number, but it must know which pixels (integer points) are located inside--this generally would be sufficient to test for overlap--and collision. Maybe this would be a request feature RR might consider. The hard part of overlap and collision may already be in the engine. Jim From tkuypers at pandora.be Mon Jun 27 06:23:49 2005 From: tkuypers at pandora.be (Ton Kuypers) Date: Mon, 27 Jun 2005 12:23:49 +0200 Subject: connecting to a remote mySQL database Message-ID: <5719C2CC-AD6C-4FC7-BF50-FFD753AEF1D3@pandora.be> Hi, I've seen this come by on this list, but I can't seem to remember the solution to the problem. When connecting from rev to a mySQL database (4.1.9) I keep on getting the error "Client does not support authentication protocol requested by server; consider upgrading MySQL client". I've used the mySQL Administrator to check the "Use old passwords" checkbox in the security tab of the startup variables, but no success, the error remains... The error occurs when connecting from a windows RR to localhost as well as when connecting from a OS-X RR to the IP Address. Anyone any advice on how to connect to mySQL 4.1.x? many thanks in advance, Ton Kuypers Digital Media Partners bvba Tel. +32 (0)477 / 739 530 Fax +32 (0)14 / 71 03 04 http://www.dmp-int.com From heather at runrev.com Mon Jun 27 06:43:29 2005 From: heather at runrev.com (Heather Nagey) Date: Mon, 27 Jun 2005 11:43:29 +0100 Subject: test Message-ID: please ignore Heather Nagey, Customer Support Manager Runtime Revolution Ltd www.runrev.com From alex at tweedly.net Mon Jun 27 07:45:34 2005 From: alex at tweedly.net (Alex Tweedly) Date: Mon, 27 Jun 2005 12:45:34 +0100 Subject: ANN Testing for overlapping polygons In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <42BFE6DE.4050000@tweedly.net> Jim Hurley wrote: > [Hope this isn't a repeat. According to my ISP this was not delivered. > Perhaps the problems that Heather warned of over the weekend.] > I've only seen one copy. > Well, I said it was grubby, but here it is, a stack which test for > overlap between polygons. > That's not at all grubby - that's really neat, very nice job. It does demonstrate that the built-in function "within" is fairly inexact (since it's defined as "whether a point is within the clickable part of a shape" this inexact-ness is probably intentional). If you position the blue shape above the red one such that the approx mid-point is above the top point of the red one, and slowly drag it down, you find that "point is within" becomes true when there is still a clearly visible yellow gap between the two shapes - so it's clear that the RR test doesn't involve checking pixel colours.. > I was wondering how RR tests for within(). One way would be to draw a > line from the point in question to the edge of the screen. If there > are an odd number of intersections with the lines of the polygon, then > the point is inside, otherwise it is outside. Either that or decide if it is "above" or "below", and "left" or "right" of each directed line segment in turn; only if both pairs match is it within. Both of those allow for easy "inexact" checks, so they could use either. > But how does RR paste a color into an opaque polygon, how does it know > which pixels are inside and which outside the polygon? It doesn't test > for all points, of which there are an infinite number, but it must > know which pixels (integer points) are located inside--this generally > would be sufficient to test for overlap--and collision. Maybe this > would be a request feature RR might consider. The hard part of overlap > and collision may already be in the engine. > Standard algorithm uses a "scan" pattern over the bounding rectangle, toggling on/off as the scan crosses (or touches) the edges. I don't know if that'll be within the engine or if they'll use system-provided primitives to handle filled polygons. Either way, since there's already a "point within shape" test, it would be a nice feature to extend that to "overlap shapes". (Actually, I'd prefer that "intersect" be changed to mean what it says (i.e. two shapes overlap), and a new term be devised for "rectangles overlap", but I guess that could break too many existing stacks :-) -- Alex Tweedly http://www.tweedly.net -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.323 / Virus Database: 267.8.2/29 - Release Date: 27/06/2005 From jbondy at sover.net Mon Jun 27 07:53:01 2005 From: jbondy at sover.net (Jon) Date: Mon, 27 Jun 2005 07:53:01 -0400 Subject: images Message-ID: <42BFE89D.4080708@sover.net> I'm still fiddling with the Nine Ball With Spin game. I want to modify the ball images, but I can't for the life of me figure out how to do that. I figured out where the images were, in a "graphic", but can't figure out any way to actually see the image, save it modify it, load it, etc. Any hints? The property Inspector seems useless in this situation, which seems strange. Jon From wouter.abraham at scarlet.be Mon Jun 27 08:05:11 2005 From: wouter.abraham at scarlet.be (Wouter) Date: Mon, 27 Jun 2005 14:05:11 +0200 Subject: How to put a dash in front of a menu item In-Reply-To: <42ECAA6F-E67C-11D9-AA00-000A959BA7DC@fiberworld.nl> References: <42ECAA6F-E67C-11D9-AA00-000A959BA7DC@fiberworld.nl> Message-ID: <2ECA30C7-FDE4-40CE-8D8D-CE006B4FC880@scarlet.be> Hi Claudi, Putting a space in front of the dash (or any other character) could solve your problem, if you can live with a space in front of the dash that is. Greetings, Wouter On 26 Jun 2005, at 21:55, Claudi Cornaz wrote: > Hi all > > Still working/improving my demo of a textMenu. It's almost ready. > I can now also increase/decrease textsizes. Lighten/darken > is just a snap away (it's the same as increase/decrease > with a slight twist) and the menu displayscorrectly all attributes. > > There is just one thing I'd like to add to it: putting a dash in > front of a menu(item). > > Is there a way I can achieve this? > > This way the user could see if a selection has mixed attributes > or if it's all the same. The way I found in the documentation, and > after some tests (like putting a \ in front of the "-" which does'n't > give quite the desired effect. ) it doesn't work. > > As far as I discovered we can put a checkMark or a diamond in front of > a menu but not a dash. I hope I am wrong, am I? > > In case we indeed, can't put a dash in front of a menu, wouldn't this > be a usefull enhanchement? Should I, in a yet to figure out way, > post this > as a request? > > All best wishes > Claudi > > _______________________________________________ > use-revolution mailing list > use-revolution at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution > From 36degrees at runrev.com Mon Jun 27 08:07:27 2005 From: 36degrees at runrev.com (Mark Waddingham) Date: Mon, 27 Jun 2005 13:07:27 +0100 Subject: Psychedelic Bug? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1119874047.9854.11.camel@rachmaninov> Hi Scott, Unusual... But documented (in the visual effect command I think...) At present it is not possible to use either Core Image or QT visual effects on alpha-blended windows as a bit of re-architecturing is needed to make the visual effects aware of the alpha-channel in these two cases (this is a known limitation which will be removed as soon as we can). Original (albeit slightly dull) visual effects *should* work but I think there is an update glitch at the moment causing an issue at least on Windows. Warmest Regards, Mark. On Thu, 2005-06-23 at 21:38 -0700, Scott Rossi wrote: > Try this on OSX, using a stack with a deep mask applied: > > lock screen > unlock screen with visual "dissolve" > > See anything unusual? > > Regards, > > Scott Rossi > Creative Director > Tactile Media, Multimedia & Design > ----- > E: scott at tactilemedia.com > W: http://www.tactilemedia.com > > _______________________________________________ > use-revolution mailing list > use-revolution at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution ------------------------------------------------------------------ Mark Waddingham ~ 36degrees at runrev.com ~ http://www.runrev.com Runtime Revolution ~ User-Centric Development Tools From ptrendler at bigpond.com Mon Jun 27 08:19:38 2005 From: ptrendler at bigpond.com (Pat Trendler) Date: Mon, 27 Jun 2005 22:19:38 +1000 Subject: images References: <42BFE89D.4080708@sover.net> Message-ID: <003001c57b12$7e909700$0100000a@super> Jon, If it is any help, the balls are buttons with icons. See in the property inspector(for any of the balls) - icons & borders, click on the little wand thingey by the icon and id no., choose "this stack" from the drop down menu and see all the ball icons. Pat patrend at bigpond.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jon" To: "Revolution List" Sent: Monday, June 27, 2005 9:53 PM Subject: images > I'm still fiddling with the Nine Ball With Spin game. I want to modify > the ball images, but I can't for the life of me figure out how to do > that. I figured out where the images were, in a "graphic", but can't > figure out any way to actually see the image, save it modify it, load > it, etc. > > Any hints? The property Inspector seems useless in this situation, > which seems strange. > > Jon > > _______________________________________________ > use-revolution mailing list > use-revolution at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution > From see3d at writeme.com Mon Jun 27 08:40:08 2005 From: see3d at writeme.com (Dennis Brown) Date: Mon, 27 Jun 2005 08:40:08 -0400 Subject: "repeat for each" in reverse order ? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: The repeat for each only goes in forward sequential order starting at the beginning, except for arrays where the order is indeterminate. I have requested a sequential access enhancement to allow for constructing this type of looping in a more flexible way (like parallel instantiation, starting at an arbitrary point, and reverse order), to make it possible to wander all over your data sequentially with the speed of the repeat for each method. However, it would be most useful with some improved string delimiter handling. Bugzilla # 2773 Having a reverse order repeat for each might be up to twice as slow as the forward version depending on how it is implemented, because it has to go backwards to the previous delimiter then forward to pick up the data, though it could pick up the data in reverse order on the way back. However, even twice as slow would be much faster than any other method. Dennis On Jun 27, 2005, at 3:57 AM, Robert Brenstein wrote: >> It sounds like you're looking for a feature that doesn't yet exist >> (or at least I'm not aware of it). I could see having a property >> that defines the direction in which the 'repeat for each' >> structure does its looping, like this: >> >> set the repeatDirection to "descending" -- or "down", >> "reverse", ??? >> repeat for each element x in y >> -- actions >> end repeat >> >> That would be a nice feature indeed. No harm in requesting it! >> >> Phil Davis >> > > I would prefer > > repeat for each element x in y descending > > but I doubt whether this would have the performance anywhere close > to ascending 'for each' so it is probably pointless to have it. As > far as I know, the speed of 'repeat for each' comes from processing > elements sequentially and thus without having to recalculate the > list pointer position. > > Robert > _______________________________________________ > use-revolution mailing list > use-revolution at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution > From rbarber at yhb.att.ne.jp Mon Jun 27 08:56:28 2005 From: rbarber at yhb.att.ne.jp (ron barber) Date: Mon, 27 Jun 2005 21:56:28 +0900 Subject: returnInField doesn't work In-Reply-To: <200506270439.MAA22904@msr41.hinet.net> References: <200506270439.MAA22904@msr41.hinet.net> Message-ID: Hi Fritz On Jun 27, 2005, at 1:38 PM, Friedrich F. Grohmann wrote: > My setup is Rev 2.6 on a G4 notebook under Mac OS 10.3.2. > > The problem: A very simple stack with one field containing text and > another field for search purposes. The text is Chinese and so is, of > course, the word typed into the search field. The script of the latter > uses a returnInField handler to locate text. The same script works > fine > in the case of Roman text but with the Chinese there is no reaction at > all. Nothing happens, nothing. Not even a beep when I added "if me is > empty then beep" to the script. I search Japanese (and Chinese) within a fld successfully. Can you post your script so maybe we can figure out what is not happening correctly? Thanks Ron From jhurley at infostations.com Mon Jun 27 09:35:46 2005 From: jhurley at infostations.com (Jim Hurley) Date: Mon, 27 Jun 2005 06:35:46 -0700 Subject: images In-Reply-To: <20050627120226.30AD08249DC@mail.runrev.com> References: <20050627120226.30AD08249DC@mail.runrev.com> Message-ID: > >Message: 19 >Date: Mon, 27 Jun 2005 07:53:01 -0400 >From: Jon >Subject: images >To: Revolution List >Message-ID: <42BFE89D.4080708 at sover.net> >Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed > >I'm still fiddling with the Nine Ball With Spin game. I want to modify >the ball images, but I can't for the life of me figure out how to do >that. I figured out where the images were, in a "graphic", but can't >figure out any way to actually see the image, save it modify it, load >it, etc. > >Any hints? The property Inspector seems useless in this situation, >which seems strange. > >Jon > Jon, I'm not the best person to answer this question but try the following: on mouseUP ask "What image to save?" if it is empty then exit mouseUp put it into theImageToSave ask file "Give it what file name? (Don't forget the suffix.)" if it is empty then exit mouseUp put it into fileName if it is not empty then put "binFile:"&fileName into theLongFileName else exit mouseUp end if put image theImageToSave into url theLongFileName end mouseUP In theImageToSave be sure to include the suffix, e.g. ".png" This handler should put a file on disk which you can edit in PhotoShop/Elements or whatever. It might be nice if Run Rev included an "Export" menu option to go with the "Import" menu option. Somehow the numbers of the ball got lost in some of the iterations of Nine Ball. You will find Nine Ball using Scott's shiny balls *with* attached numbers on my web site: http://home.infostations.net/jhurley/ Jim From 3mcgrath at adelphia.net Mon Jun 27 10:17:31 2005 From: 3mcgrath at adelphia.net (Thomas McGrath III) Date: Mon, 27 Jun 2005 10:17:31 -0400 Subject: test In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <552e6052bfce87737ba22fbd89816c1e@adelphia.net> ignored On Jun 27, 2005, at 6:43 AM, Heather Nagey wrote: > please ignore > > Heather Nagey, Customer Support Manager > Runtime Revolution Ltd > www.runrev.com > > _______________________________________________ > use-revolution mailing list > use-revolution at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution > > From dsc at swcp.com Mon Jun 27 10:23:24 2005 From: dsc at swcp.com (Dar Scott) Date: Mon, 27 Jun 2005 08:23:24 -0600 Subject: "repeat for each" in reverse order ? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <360693a712cc05e02fba6e8f7c45452d@swcp.com> On Jun 27, 2005, at 1:57 AM, Robert Brenstein wrote: > repeat for each element x in y descending Now, is that with keys in descending order or elements in descending order? Dar -- ********************************************** DSC (Dar Scott Consulting & Dar's Lab) http://www.swcp.com/dsc/ Programming and software ********************************************** From douez at wanadoo.fr Mon Jun 27 11:00:51 2005 From: douez at wanadoo.fr (thierry) Date: Mon, 27 Jun 2005 17:00:51 +0200 Subject: Sucess compiling Alex Tweedly DLL! In-Reply-To: <20050625001345.71265.qmail@web40504.mail.yahoo.com> References: <20050625001345.71265.qmail@web40504.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <42C014A3.4070804@wanadoo.fr> Hi Alejandro, Was quite funny when i saw your emails yesterday; because i've decided to play a bit with the externals during last week-end.. and after having download whatever was exiting on the subject, plus DevC++, plus lot of scans on this list... i did struggle at the same time as you on the same subject. How are you doing with this beast :-) Just now, i've been able to compile and link one external. If you so desire i can send you the makefile i've made for this ( i'm using the Gnu make ) HTH, thierry Alejandro Tejada a ?crit : >Hi Developers, > >i remember that Kenneth Simmons >has posted a C++ version of >the external dll in this page: > > > >Following the instructions for >compiling this C++ dll in Dev-C++ >produced the following errors. >Notice these are a lot less than >in previous trials with the sdk. :-) > >----------------------------------------- >....... > >make.exe: *** [../mcExternalCPP/external.o] Error 1 > > From joel.guillod at net2000.ch Mon Jun 27 11:45:42 2005 From: joel.guillod at net2000.ch (Joel Guillod) Date: Mon, 27 Jun 2005 17:45:42 +0200 Subject: Failing building Standalone on MacOSX 10.3.9 and Tiger 10.4.1 In-Reply-To: <20050627014847.697C882493F@mail.runrev.com> References: <20050627014847.697C882493F@mail.runrev.com> Message-ID: Since Rev 2.6 I have not been able to build any standalone: after setting the Application Setting, then chosen the Save as Standalone Application menu Revolution unexpectedly quits after less than 1-2 secs. I have tried to change settings but could not fix myself. For such a very very annoying situation I filled a blocking bug last week but didn't receive any reply from Runrev. On my desktop the Help menu -> Check for updates... replies "You have the lastest version of Revolution along with the latest updates". Could anyone tell me if (1) s/he has been able to build standalone under MacOSX 10.3.9+? If yes, how? (2) s/he is aware of such a problem and what to do? On a previous release we had to wait for more than 4 months before Runrev fixes a problem with MacOSX bundles and externals and some days I really ask myself which dev plateform to go on with. I would accept that this problem could be due to a bit of electronic ghost in my hardware but before shaking my head once again to the wall, I prefer to check for other unfortunate MacOSX revolutioners... In advance thanks so much for making me a happy Rev user! JG From eric.chatonet at sosmartsoftware.com Mon Jun 27 11:57:29 2005 From: eric.chatonet at sosmartsoftware.com (Eric Chatonet) Date: Mon, 27 Jun 2005 17:57:29 +0200 Subject: Failing building Standalone on MacOSX 10.3.9 and Tiger 10.4.1 In-Reply-To: References: <20050627014847.697C882493F@mail.runrev.com> Message-ID: <89169829-66C3-43D4-A679-5DC7D2924078@sosmartsoftware.com> Hello Jo?l, Le 27 juin 05 ? 17:45, Joel Guillod a ?crit : > I filled a blocking bug last week but didn't receive any reply from > Runrev. Would this mean that it's considered as a personal issue... As far I know, nobody reported any *new* problem when building standalones with 2.6 until now. I take the opportunity to remind that it would be better to ask the list before *filling a blocking bug* which, probably, overloads a huge bug database without reason :-) Unfortunately I can't help you since I use 10.4.1 and XP SP2. Check http://www.google.com/advanced_search?q=site:lists.runrev.com There were many threads about building standalones issues and how to solve them. Best Regards from Paris, Eric Chatonet. ---------------------------------------------------------------- So Smart Software For institutions, companies and associations Built-to-order applications: management, multimedia, internet, etc. Windows, Mac OS and Linux... With the French touch Free plugins and tutorials on my website ---------------------------------------------------------------- Web site http://www.sosmartsoftware.com/ Email eric.chatonet at sosmartsoftware.com/ Phone 33 (0)1 43 31 77 62 Mobile 33 (0)6 20 74 50 86 ---------------------------------------------------------------- From kray at sonsothunder.com Mon Jun 27 12:10:23 2005 From: kray at sonsothunder.com (Ken Ray) Date: Mon, 27 Jun 2005 11:10:23 -0500 Subject: [ANSWER TO OWN QUESTION]Re: Custom Modal List Dialog Methodology In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On 6/25/05 2:40 PM, "Stephen Barncard" wrote: > -- wait for modal dialog to quit > repeat until gDialogFlag is "false" > wait for messages > end repeat Stephen - will this work instead: wait until gDialogFlag is "false" with messages ?? (always looking for the one-liner...) Ken Ray Sons of Thunder Software Web site: http://www.sonsothunder.com/ Email: kray at sonsothunder.com From shedrup at ms9.hinet.net Mon Jun 27 12:18:09 2005 From: shedrup at ms9.hinet.net (Friedrich F. Grohmann) Date: Tue, 28 Jun 2005 00:18:09 +0800 Subject: returnInField doesn't work Message-ID: <200506271619.AAA13352@msr25.hinet.net> Ron, Thanks for telling me that you > search Japanese (and Chinese) within a fld successfully. Can you post >your script so maybe we can figure out what is not happening correctly? I'm most happy to do this. The script itself is of utter simplicity: on returnInField find the text of me in field id 1003 end returnInField I cannot imagine what could be wrong with that since it works with Roman text in other stacks. The font of the two fields involved is specified as "Apple LiGothic Medium,Chinese", and it is possible to search text in both of them via the message box. So what could be the problem with returnInField? Thanks in advance, Fritz From index at kenjikojima.com Mon Jun 27 12:55:18 2005 From: index at kenjikojima.com (Kenji Kojima) Date: Mon, 27 Jun 2005 12:55:18 -0400 Subject: returnInField doesn't work In-Reply-To: <200506271619.AAA13352@msr25.hinet.net> References: <200506271619.AAA13352@msr25.hinet.net> Message-ID: <33385122-48B4-4336-98C6-2EFC37FA1D9C@kenjikojima.com> Friedrich, Try this. It works for Japanese. I don't know Chinese. on returnInField find string me in field id 1003 end returnInField -- Kenji Kojima http://www.kenjikojima.com/ On Jun 27, 2005, at 12:18 PM, Friedrich F. Grohmann wrote: > Ron, > > Thanks for telling me that you > > >> search Japanese (and Chinese) within a fld successfully. Can you post >> your script so maybe we can figure out what is not happening >> correctly? >> > > I'm most happy to do this. The script itself is of utter simplicity: > > on returnInField > find the text of me in field id 1003 > end returnInField > > I cannot imagine what could be wrong with that since it works with > Roman > text in other stacks. The font of the two fields involved is > specified as > "Apple LiGothic Medium,Chinese", and it is possible to search text in > both of them via the message box. So what could be the problem with > returnInField? > > Thanks in advance, > Fritz > _______________________________________________ > use-revolution mailing list > use-revolution at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution > > > From preid at reidit.co.uk Mon Jun 27 13:18:31 2005 From: preid at reidit.co.uk (Peter Reid) Date: Mon, 27 Jun 2005 18:18:31 +0100 Subject: Menus Driving Me Nuts! Message-ID: Well I've spent about 4 hours trying to get consistent cross-platform behaviour for two small projects without success! I've looked through the lists for help about menus and tried various suggestions but without success. I have a simple menu structure with a "File Edit Help" menu bar. All I want is the following: 1) in the development environment on my Mac (OS X 10.3.9, Rev 2.6 build 108), I want to see proper Mac menus (at the top of the screen) with my stack window showing just the objects I expect and no sliding or cropping and no blank space at the top where a Win menu bar would be displayed 2) in the standalone Mac app, I expect the same as above 3) in the standalone Win app, I expect the normal Windows behaviour, i.e. the window is slightly higher with the menu bar at the top and the remaining objects slid down the screen to accommodate it It seems that instead of the above I can get the following, depending on what tricks I try: a) standalone Mac app is fine but standalone Win app has no menu bar b) standalone Win app is fine but standalone Mac app has lost the bottom of its window c) standalone Win app is fine but standalone Mac app has Win-sized window with a blank space at the top where the menu bar would be and everything else moved down The only way I've had some limited success is if I explicitly fix the window height in my preOpenStack handler. Not only is this yuk, it's not fully reliable either! I have tried completely removing and remaking the menus (several times), but nothing works consistently. Also, how come both Mac and Win apps end up with a 'Quit' option in the File menu when the Win standard is 'Exit'? Of course I can fix this with code, but why should I have to, surely you should be able to expect standard behaviour for each platform? In the end I got most of what I want using the following script inside my preOpenStack handler (not nice or obvious but it does work!): if the platform is "MacOS" then if the environment is not "development" then put the height of this stack into theHeight set the editMenu of this stack to false show group menuBarName set the height of this stack to theHeight + the height of group menuBarName end if else set the editMenu of this stack to false put the height of this stack into theHeight show group menuBarName set the height of this stack to theHeight + the height of group menuBarName end if I really can't believe how unreliable and torturous it is trying to get standard cross-platform menus. Every time I start a new "short project", I spend more time trying to sort out the menus than I do completing the rest of the project! It's now got to the point where I'm considering "jumping ship" to REALbasic for small projects has I'm so fed up with this fight every time - it's making small projects uneconomical with Rev. Please can someone tell me how to get some reliable sanity into the menu process! Peter -- Peter Reid Reid-IT Limited, Loughborough, Leics., UK E-mail: preid at reidit.co.uk From mwieder at ahsoftware.net Sat Jun 25 11:57:04 2005 From: mwieder at ahsoftware.net (Mark Wieder) Date: Sat, 25 Jun 2005 08:57:04 -0700 Subject: Confirm Long File Name Bug in Player Object In-Reply-To: <0B862B4D-EE2C-430D-A154-F792383758D5@hindu.org> References: <7792AF40-54E2-4628-8BFB-665E2621B701@hindu.org> <9369e855808a230642dfecde44fbf1ee@qldlearning.com> <2BA8BDD2-59E2-48C2-9CBE-2FCB99BC2F13@hindu.org> <679e3b449d7c703f2fa47f4814d7ff19@qldlearning.com> <5EAFBABB-D3CD-4E1E-B315-6C78742A5321@hindu.org> <068fc61310d3badce7e94d02aca3d9d2@swcp.com> <0B862B4D-EE2C-430D-A154-F792383758D5@hindu.org> Message-ID: <401381446.20050625085704@ahsoftware.net> Sivakatirswami- Friday, June 24, 2005, 10:55:21 PM, you wrote: S> answer "Are you finished with the last one? If so, shall I clear S> the header info?" with "No" or "Yes" I understand the intent, but I have to say that I find two yes-or-no questions in a single answer dialog with a single response a bit confusing to the user. S> put theTape into tTruncatedFileName S> put char 1 to 13 of (item -1 of theTape) & ".mp3" into item -1 S> of tTruncatedFileName S> rename file theTape to tTruncatedFileName ... and here I would check to make sure that file tTruncatedFileName doesn't already exist before trying to rename it... Anyway, glad you found a workaround for now. -- -Mark Wieder mwieder at ahsoftware.net From stephenREVOLUTION at barncard.com Mon Jun 27 13:26:10 2005 From: stephenREVOLUTION at barncard.com (Stephen Barncard) Date: Mon, 27 Jun 2005 10:26:10 -0700 Subject: returnInField doesn't work In-Reply-To: <200506270439.MAA22904@msr41.hinet.net> References: <200506270439.MAA22904@msr41.hinet.net> Message-ID: I don't work in anything but Roman languages, but I have noticed some behavior in text fields that has tripped me up before. There can be a difference between the text properties of a field and the properties of the text contained within that field. Before hitting return in the field, try selecting the search text, then setting it manually using the TEXT menu to the desired font in the IDE (or script a select text and set font action) before doing the search and see if that makes a difference. Just a guess...something to try... sqb >My setup is Rev 2.6 on a G4 notebook under Mac OS 10.3.2. > >The problem: A very simple stack with one field containing text and >another field for search purposes. The text is Chinese and so is, of >course, the word typed into the search field. The script of the latter >uses a returnInField handler to locate text. The same script works fine >in the case of Roman text but with the Chinese there is no reaction at >all. Nothing happens, nothing. Not even a beep when I added "if me is >empty then beep" to the script. > >It is possible to search the text field from the message box with the >find command but this doesn't solve the returnInField problem. Any >suggestions most welcome. > >Fritz From revdan at danshafer.com Mon Jun 27 13:56:24 2005 From: revdan at danshafer.com (Dan Shafer) Date: Mon, 27 Jun 2005 10:56:24 -0700 Subject: connecting to a remote mySQL database In-Reply-To: <5719C2CC-AD6C-4FC7-BF50-FFD753AEF1D3@pandora.be> References: <5719C2CC-AD6C-4FC7-BF50-FFD753AEF1D3@pandora.be> Message-ID: <7B661FBD-12AB-4118-A2ED-DB03A6740652@danshafer.com> This is a documented problem involving the upgrade to MySQL 4.1.1 and beyond. This page will tell you more than you ever wanted to know but should help you fix the problem: http://dev.mysql.com/doc/mysql/en/password-hashing.html On Jun 27, 2005, at 3:23 AM, Ton Kuypers wrote: > Hi, > > I've seen this come by on this list, but I can't seem to remember > the solution to the problem. > > When connecting from rev to a mySQL database (4.1.9) I keep on > getting the error "Client does not support authentication protocol > requested by server; consider upgrading MySQL client". > I've used the mySQL Administrator to check the "Use old passwords" > checkbox in the security tab of the startup variables, but no > success, the error remains... > > The error occurs when connecting from a windows RR to localhost as > well as when connecting from a OS-X RR to the IP Address. > > > Anyone any advice on how to connect to mySQL 4.1.x? ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Dan Shafer, Revolution Consultant and Author http://www.shafermedia.com Get my book, "Revolution: Software at the Speed of Thought" From http://www.shafermedia.com/revolutionbooks.html From preid at reidit.co.uk Mon Jun 27 14:26:25 2005 From: preid at reidit.co.uk (Peter Reid) Date: Mon, 27 Jun 2005 19:26:25 +0100 Subject: Printing Causes Rev & Standalone to Crash Message-ID: I'm printing a large number of cards (100-150 cards, each landscape A4) using something like: open printing with dialog repeat with x = 1 to cardsToPrint print card x end repeat close printing However, it gets to the last card and then crashes both Rev and also any standalone I've built doing the same thing. I've tried both Rev 2.5.1 and Rev 6 (under Mac OS X 10.3.9) and get the same result. I've tried a Print Preview and a Print to PDF and both crash out of Rev/standalone! If I do Print Preview, I get nothing after the crash. If I do Print to PDF, I get an incomplete damaged PDF file. The 100-150 cards are actually groups of 4-5 cards with their content being changed and then printed. Basically they are customer records, each of 4-5 pages and I'm trying to print a batch of customers in one go, either directly to the printer or to a PDF file such that the user only has to set the paper size/orientation once and the output options (one/two sided, to print/PDF) once rather than for each customer in a batch (a batch can be 15-25 customers at a time). This looks like a memory problem to me, but I don't know whether there's anything I can tweak to make it go away. Alternatively, is there anyway to set up multiple print runs (i.e. multiple "open printing" - "close printing" cycles such that I can get the user to answer the final print dialog just the once and carry over the settings into each subsequent cycle? Any suggestions please? Peter -- Peter Reid Reid-IT Limited, Loughborough, Leics., UK E-mail: preid at reidit.co.uk From SimPLsol at aol.com Mon Jun 27 14:30:45 2005 From: SimPLsol at aol.com (SimPLsol at aol.com) Date: Mon, 27 Jun 2005 14:30:45 EDT Subject: Menus Driving Me Nuts! Message-ID: <146.474b3f22.2ff19fd5@aol.com> Peter, I share your menu misery. When they work, as they seem to for most people in most situations, they really are brilliant. When they don't work....(colorful/colourful language deleted). A couple things I've learned: Adding menus to a multi-card stack creates problems. If at all possible, add menus before adding cards. Don't put menus in the background group. It seems logical, particularly if you are adding a new menu to a stack with cards, why not just put the menu in the background group to have it appear on all of the existing cards (it will be automatically placed on any new ones) - but, don't do it. Copying the menu group card to card is also, in my experience, unreliable - better to create a new one card stack with the new menu (or delete the existing stack down to one card) and import the data to the new cards. As for the height. If you the above fixes don't help and you have to "hard wire" the height, set it in an openStack handler - seems something happens to the stack height after the preOpenStack message is sent. Many times I've said "There must be a better way." And people have come up with clever workarounds but, as far as I know, none are well documented. Paul Looney From kray at sonsothunder.com Mon Jun 27 15:00:26 2005 From: kray at sonsothunder.com (Ken Ray) Date: Mon, 27 Jun 2005 14:00:26 -0500 Subject: Transcript arithmetic In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On 6/27/05 5:03 AM, "John Ridge" wrote: > I should emphasise that it's a standalone problem - it fails when compiled > for Mac OS 9 as well as Windows. Are there known issues like this with the > syntax of Transcript when compiled into a standalone? If so, I'd appreciate > a pointer. Did you try putting parentheses around relevant items in the equation? It may be an "order of operations" issue... Ken Ray Sons of Thunder Software Web site: http://www.sonsothunder.com/ Email: kray at sonsothunder.com From jacque at hyperactivesw.com Mon Jun 27 15:10:06 2005 From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay) Date: Mon, 27 Jun 2005 14:10:06 -0500 Subject: Failing building Standalone on MacOSX 10.3.9 and Tiger 10.4.1 In-Reply-To: References: <20050627014847.697C882493F@mail.runrev.com> Message-ID: <42C04F0E.9060806@hyperactivesw.com> On 6/27/05 10:45 AM, Joel Guillod wrote: > Could anyone tell me if (1) s/he has been able to build standalone > under MacOSX 10.3.9+? If yes, how? (2) s/he is aware of such a problem > and what to do? I am using 10.3.9 and I have built standalones without any problem. Have you tried selecting the inclusions manually instead of letting the app builder scan for inclusions? Sometimes that can bypass the problem. Another known problem is file paths with non-ascii characters. Make sure you are saving to a folder that has no French characters in the file path. -- Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com From b.xavier at internet.lu Mon Jun 27 15:13:14 2005 From: b.xavier at internet.lu (MisterX) Date: Mon, 27 Jun 2005 21:13:14 +0200 Subject: Menus Driving Me Nuts! In-Reply-To: <146.474b3f22.2ff19fd5@aol.com> Message-ID: <20050627190935.47C238248C4@mail.runrev.com> if my way and experience can help then i hope it does... in multicards, the root of the hierarchy is the stack, then the background, then the card - then the group or what it's the card out of the background - including other background groups. Inmensely flexible but in the raw ;) However with backgrounds, in RunRev and MetaCard, as soon as you add something to a card, the next card you create from that card will "inherit" the extra stuff (when they are "shared" like buttons or "background" like groups. But it's disconcerting since existing cards dont inherit the background behavior of other groups equaly shared... begs the question if they have the same number of cards - false but they share the same "screen" contrary to the older hypercard - here you would create different cards, put the bgs into them and then you have what you had in HC - structuraly speaking - Rev is a structure powerhouse! So the easiest solution is to make one front end for your data and store your data into a file or another hidden substack. Then your one card, will never be out of synch with the data. That's the easiest way! Not the fastest Cards are too cool too ignore though - thanks to their local behavior - but be careful to change ONE group, not many. Put the menugroup into a comprehensive "objects" group and your troubles will always be shared across all your cards or improve that quickly! ;) did that make sense? Cheers Xavier http://monsieurx.com/ > -----Original Message----- > From: use-revolution-bounces at lists.runrev.com > [mailto:use-revolution-bounces at lists.runrev.com] On Behalf Of > SimPLsol at aol.com > Sent: Monday, June 27, 2005 20:31 > To: use-revolution at lists.runrev.com > Subject: Re: Menus Driving Me Nuts! > > Peter, > I share your menu misery. > When they work, as they seem to for most people in most > situations, they really are brilliant. When they don't > work....(colorful/colourful language deleted). > A couple things I've learned: > Adding menus to a multi-card stack creates problems. If > at all possible, add menus before adding cards. > Don't put menus in the background group. It seems > logical, particularly if you are adding a new menu to a stack > with cards, why not just put the menu in the background group > to have it appear on all of the existing cards (it will be > automatically placed on any new ones) - but, don't do it. > Copying the menu group card to card is also, in my > experience, unreliable - better to create a new one card > stack with the new menu (or delete the existing stack down to > one card) and import the data to the new cards. > As for the height. If you the above fixes don't help and > you have to "hard wire" the height, set it in an openStack > handler - seems something happens to the stack height after > the preOpenStack message is sent. > Many times I've said "There must be a better way." And > people have come up with clever workarounds but, as far as I > know, none are well documented. > Paul Looney > _______________________________________________ > use-revolution mailing list > use-revolution at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage > your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution > From r.beynon at liv.ac.uk Mon Jun 27 15:19:07 2005 From: r.beynon at liv.ac.uk (Rob Beynon) Date: Mon, 27 Jun 2005 20:19:07 +0100 Subject: A naive question about sub windoes/cards??? Message-ID: <508397748.20050627201907@liv.ac.uk> All, I've seen stacks where popup windows, complete with a full set of title bar tools and a menubar, can be made to appear, for example, to record preferences. Are these cards? Can new cards be made to be a different size to the first card in a stack? And, how does one make all the controls (radi buttons, fields etc) behave as a single entity (through a group?). This is a whole new level of RR programming for me, so some advice would be very helpful. -- All best wishes, Rob (Created at 20:16 on 27/06/2005) ============================================================== Prof. Rob Beynon |+44 151 794 4312 (voice) Dept. Veterinary Preclinical |+44 151 794 4243 (fax) Sciences, University of Liverpool, Crown Street, Liverpool L69 7ZJ |mailto:r.beynon at liv.ac.uk -------------------------------------------------------------- http://www.liv.ac.uk/pfg |http://www.csiv.org ============================================================== From bleiler at buffalo.edu Mon Jun 27 15:26:20 2005 From: bleiler at buffalo.edu (Timothy Bleiler) Date: Mon, 27 Jun 2005 15:26:20 -0400 Subject: Failing building Standalone on MacOSX 10.3.9 and Tiger 10.4.1 In-Reply-To: <42C04F0E.9060806@hyperactivesw.com> References: <20050627014847.697C882493F@mail.runrev.com> <42C04F0E.9060806@hyperactivesw.com> Message-ID: I'm also suddenly unable to build standalones on Mac OS X 10.3.9 although I've done so previously. The download site at runrev is not working right now and maybe this has something to do with it. When I try to save as a standalone, the preopenStack and OpenStack messages are sent to my stack and then the whole thing fails. This has never happened to me before. --Tim Bleiler University at Buffalo On Jun 27, 2005, at 3:10 PM, J. Landman Gay wrote: > On 6/27/05 10:45 AM, Joel Guillod wrote: > >> Could anyone tell me if (1) s/he has been able to build standalone >> under MacOSX 10.3.9+? If yes, how? (2) s/he is aware of such a >> problem and what to do? > > I am using 10.3.9 and I have built standalones without any problem. > Have you tried selecting the inclusions manually instead of letting > the app builder scan for inclusions? Sometimes that can bypass the > problem. > > Another known problem is file paths with non-ascii characters. Make > sure you are saving to a folder that has no French characters in the > file path. From tkuypers at pandora.be Mon Jun 27 15:32:20 2005 From: tkuypers at pandora.be (Ton Kuypers) Date: Mon, 27 Jun 2005 21:32:20 +0200 Subject: connecting to a remote mySQL database In-Reply-To: <7B661FBD-12AB-4118-A2ED-DB03A6740652@danshafer.com> References: <5719C2CC-AD6C-4FC7-BF50-FFD753AEF1D3@pandora.be> <7B661FBD-12AB-4118-A2ED-DB03A6740652@danshafer.com> Message-ID: <26FC343F-A764-45F5-888B-6935A403BC88@pandora.be> Will there be a solution from within RR? Anyone know? On 27 Jun 2005, at 19:56, Dan Shafer wrote: > This is a documented problem involving the upgrade to MySQL 4.1.1 > and beyond. > > This page will tell you more than you ever wanted to know but > should help you fix the problem: > > http://dev.mysql.com/doc/mysql/en/password-hashing.html > > > On Jun 27, 2005, at 3:23 AM, Ton Kuypers wrote: > > >> Hi, >> >> I've seen this come by on this list, but I can't seem to remember >> the solution to the problem. >> >> When connecting from rev to a mySQL database (4.1.9) I keep on >> getting the error "Client does not support authentication protocol >> requested by server; consider upgrading MySQL client". >> I've used the mySQL Administrator to check the "Use old passwords" >> checkbox in the security tab of the startup variables, but no >> success, the error remains... >> >> The error occurs when connecting from a windows RR to localhost as >> well as when connecting from a OS-X RR to the IP Address. >> >> >> Anyone any advice on how to connect to mySQL 4.1.x? >> > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ > Dan Shafer, Revolution Consultant and Author > http://www.shafermedia.com > Get my book, "Revolution: Software at the Speed of Thought" > From http://www.shafermedia.com/revolutionbooks.html > > > > > _______________________________________________ > use-revolution mailing list > use-revolution at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution > > From gandalf at doctorTimothyMiller.com Mon Jun 27 15:40:34 2005 From: gandalf at doctorTimothyMiller.com (Timothy Miller) Date: Mon, 27 Jun 2005 12:40:34 -0700 Subject: Tiger breaks hyperCard? Message-ID: I skimmed the thread on Tiger breaks hyperCard. I wasn't too concerned at the time. I'm concluding the process of the OS 9 to OS X transition, once and for all. I'm on 10.3.9. I see its virtues. So, now I need another machine capable of running OS X. I'm thinking about Mac Mini, but they ship with Tiger installed. I will probably need to run hyperCard in classic mode occasionally, at least for the next year or so, until my HC-->Rev stacks are totally solid. I inquired on comp.sys.mac.apps. The main players there are usually reliable. They say hyperCard works fine on Tiger, in their experience. So, maybe only certain hyperCard features don't work? Which ones? If Tiger breaks hyperCard, it seems like it must break a lot of other Classic applications also, true? If Tiger-Breaks-HyperCard (and maybe a lot of other Classic applications, too) is a serious problem, would it be reasonable to replace Tiger with OS 10.3.9 on a new Mac Mini? My instincts say, "Don't try it." Since I'm on the topic, I don't mind that the Mac Mini is "only" a G4. The slow system bus speed concerns me, though -- 167 mhz. OTOH, I am only an occasional user of CPU-intensive applications. Is the slow system bus a serious bottleneck? I know this is a little OT. Sorry. I know this is a Rev group, but many of us are former HC users, some still in transition. Hey! I didn't complain about Rev this time! Cheers, Tim Miller From eric.chatonet at sosmartsoftware.com Mon Jun 27 16:16:41 2005 From: eric.chatonet at sosmartsoftware.com (Eric Chatonet) Date: Mon, 27 Jun 2005 22:16:41 +0200 Subject: Tiger breaks hyperCard? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <026594D0-4B01-4648-9541-D18602AEB435@sosmartsoftware.com> Hi Tim, I run a G4 bi-pro with Tiger 10.4.1. HyperCard 2.4.1 US with many additional utilities including 120 externals in use, a 3.4 MB library, color tools, a multi-purposes plugin I wrote many years ago (1.5 MB) and much more... A real HC factory which needs an allocation of 15 MB of RAM (nothing at the moment but quite impressive some years ago :-) All that works perfectly with Tiger as it worked with Jaguar and Panther in the Classic environment :-) I think the reported issues are personal ones ;-) Pay attention to RAM allocation: old system 9 feature, often forgotten since Unix came in... Le 27 juin 05 ? 21:40, Timothy Miller a ?crit : > I skimmed the thread on Tiger breaks hyperCard. I wasn't too > concerned at the time. > > I'm concluding the process of the OS 9 to OS X transition, once and > for all. I'm on 10.3.9. I see its virtues. So, now I need another > machine capable of running OS X. I'm thinking about Mac Mini, but > they ship with Tiger installed. > > I will probably need to run hyperCard in classic mode occasionally, > at least for the next year or so, until my HC-->Rev stacks are > totally solid. I inquired on comp.sys.mac.apps. The main players > there are usually reliable. They say hyperCard works fine on Tiger, > in their experience. So, maybe only certain hyperCard features > don't work? Which ones? > > If Tiger breaks hyperCard, it seems like it must break a lot of > other Classic applications also, true? > > If Tiger-Breaks-HyperCard (and maybe a lot of other Classic > applications, too) is a serious problem, would it be reasonable to > replace Tiger with OS 10.3.9 on a new Mac Mini? My instincts say, > "Don't try it." > > Since I'm on the topic, I don't mind that the Mac Mini is "only" a > G4. The slow system bus speed concerns me, though -- 167 mhz. OTOH, > I am only an occasional user of CPU-intensive applications. Is the > slow system bus a serious bottleneck? I know this is a little OT. > Sorry. I know this is a Rev group, but many of us are former HC > users, some still in transition. Best Regards from Paris, Eric Chatonet. ---------------------------------------------------------------- So Smart Software For institutions, companies and associations Built-to-order applications: management, multimedia, internet, etc. Windows, Mac OS and Linux... With the French touch Free plugins and tutorials on my website ---------------------------------------------------------------- Web site http://www.sosmartsoftware.com/ Email eric.chatonet at sosmartsoftware.com/ Phone 33 (0)1 43 31 77 62 Mobile 33 (0)6 20 74 50 86 ---------------------------------------------------------------- From wouter.abraham at scarlet.be Mon Jun 27 16:24:31 2005 From: wouter.abraham at scarlet.be (Wouter) Date: Mon, 27 Jun 2005 22:24:31 +0200 Subject: "repeat for each" in reverse order ? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <0DEA6879-96C8-4BF9-A88F-6F3453852E98@scarlet.be> Hi, Using the following to reverse the order of lines of a field containing 525605 chars in 14194 lines reversing by: on mouseUp put fld 1 into x put the long seconds into zap repeat for each line i in x put i&cr before tList end repeat put the long seconds - zap put tList into fld 1 end mouseUp takes > 60 seconds on a slowbook (G4 400 mhz) reversing by: on mouseUp put fld 1 into x put the long seconds into zap split x by return get the keys of x sort it numeric descending repeat for each line i in it put x[i]&cr after tList end repeat put the long seconds - zap put tList into fld 1 end mouseUp yields around 0.413007 seconds on a slowbook (G4 400 mhz) (which is not too bad) The amount of chars and lines has a big influence on the speed in the first handler, while in the second handler it has not. Greetings, Wouter On 27 Jun 2005, at 14:40, Dennis Brown wrote: > The repeat for each only goes in forward sequential order starting > at the beginning, except for arrays where the order is indeterminate. > > I have requested a sequential access enhancement to allow for > constructing this type of looping in a more flexible way (like > parallel instantiation, starting at an arbitrary point, and reverse > order), to make it possible to wander all over your data > sequentially with the speed of the repeat for each method. > However, it would be most useful with some improved string > delimiter handling. Bugzilla # 2773 > > Having a reverse order repeat for each might be up to twice as slow > as the forward version depending on how it is implemented, because > it has to go backwards to the previous delimiter then forward to > pick up the data, though it could pick up the data in reverse order > on the way back. However, even twice as slow would be much faster > than any other method. > > Dennis From revdan at danshafer.com Mon Jun 27 16:29:48 2005 From: revdan at danshafer.com (Dan Shafer) Date: Mon, 27 Jun 2005 13:29:48 -0700 Subject: connecting to a remote mySQL database In-Reply-To: <26FC343F-A764-45F5-888B-6935A403BC88@pandora.be> References: <5719C2CC-AD6C-4FC7-BF50-FFD753AEF1D3@pandora.be> <7B661FBD-12AB-4118-A2ED-DB03A6740652@danshafer.com> <26FC343F-A764-45F5-888B-6935A403BC88@pandora.be> Message-ID: <56C78EA9-239E-4EA7-9FEA-2440F050AE10@danshafer.com> Hard to say. People using other development environments are apparently just executing the fix as if it were no big deal and moving on. I don't know how much Rev *can* do here let alone how much they have time/resources for. dan On Jun 27, 2005, at 12:32 PM, Ton Kuypers wrote: > Will there be a solution from within RR? > Anyone know? > > > On 27 Jun 2005, at 19:56, Dan Shafer wrote: > > >> This is a documented problem involving the upgrade to MySQL 4.1.1 >> and beyond. >> >> This page will tell you more than you ever wanted to know but >> should help you fix the problem: >> >> http://dev.mysql.com/doc/mysql/en/password-hashing.html >> >> >> On Jun 27, 2005, at 3:23 AM, Ton Kuypers wrote: >> >> >> >>> Hi, >>> >>> I've seen this come by on this list, but I can't seem to remember >>> the solution to the problem. >>> >>> When connecting from rev to a mySQL database (4.1.9) I keep on >>> getting the error "Client does not support authentication >>> protocol requested by server; consider upgrading MySQL client". >>> I've used the mySQL Administrator to check the "Use old >>> passwords" checkbox in the security tab of the startup variables, >>> but no success, the error remains... >>> >>> The error occurs when connecting from a windows RR to localhost >>> as well as when connecting from a OS-X RR to the IP Address. >>> >>> >>> Anyone any advice on how to connect to mySQL 4.1.x? >>> >>> >> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ >> Dan Shafer, Revolution Consultant and Author >> http://www.shafermedia.com >> Get my book, "Revolution: Software at the Speed of Thought" >> From http://www.shafermedia.com/revolutionbooks.html >> >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> use-revolution mailing list >> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >> subscription preferences: >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution >> >> >> > > _______________________________________________ > use-revolution mailing list > use-revolution at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution > > From katir at hindu.org Mon Jun 27 16:30:58 2005 From: katir at hindu.org (Sivakatirswami) Date: Mon, 27 Jun 2005 10:30:58 -1000 Subject: Confirm Long File Name Bug in Player Object In-Reply-To: <401381446.20050625085704@ahsoftware.net> References: <7792AF40-54E2-4628-8BFB-665E2621B701@hindu.org> <9369e855808a230642dfecde44fbf1ee@qldlearning.com> <2BA8BDD2-59E2-48C2-9CBE-2FCB99BC2F13@hindu.org> <679e3b449d7c703f2fa47f4814d7ff19@qldlearning.com> <5EAFBABB-D3CD-4E1E-B315-6C78742A5321@hindu.org> <068fc61310d3badce7e94d02aca3d9d2@swcp.com> <0B862B4D-EE2C-430D-A154-F792383758D5@hindu.org> <401381446.20050625085704@ahsoftware.net> Message-ID: <52F65400-20C2-426C-9B3E-72CCF1FA0A44@hindu.org> We appreciate constructive criticism. I'm not a trained developer, and just do the best I can... some computer savvy users take your apps and run with them... gives you the false sense that you did a great job with the UI... but I'm learning that's not true as some of my "naive" users come back to me with questions I never dreamed of... In anticipation of doing more for the public in the not-too-distant future see below On Jun 25, 2005, at 5:57 AM, Mark Wieder wrote: > > S> answer "Are you finished with the last one? If so, shall I clear > S> the header info?" with "No" or "Yes" > > I understand the intent, but I have to say that I find two yes-or-no > questions in a single answer dialog with a single response a bit > confusing to the user. OK I think I understand... better if the buttons describe the actions and don't just throw a boolean at the user... how about this: answer "Are you finished with the last one? If so, shall I clear the header info?" with "Cancel" or "Clear Header" Better? skts > > S> put theTape into tTruncatedFileName > S> put char 1 to 13 of (item -1 of theTape) & ".mp3" into > item -1 > S> of tTruncatedFileName > S> rename file theTape to tTruncatedFileName > > ... and here I would check to make sure that file tTruncatedFileName > doesn't already exist before trying to rename it... > > Anyway, glad you found a workaround for now. > > -- > -Mark Wieder > mwieder at ahsoftware.net From revdan at danshafer.com Mon Jun 27 16:32:35 2005 From: revdan at danshafer.com (Dan Shafer) Date: Mon, 27 Jun 2005 13:32:35 -0700 Subject: Tiger breaks hyperCard? In-Reply-To: <026594D0-4B01-4648-9541-D18602AEB435@sosmartsoftware.com> References: <026594D0-4B01-4648-9541-D18602AEB435@sosmartsoftware.com> Message-ID: <4C1CCF96-8E2B-47DB-95FD-0933CFAEF48A@danshafer.com> I can report that HC seems to work just fine in Tiger. I don't use it often and I haven't done any new development in it, but the old HC stacks I have lying around before I port them to Rev all seem to run along fat, dumb, and happy. Dan On Jun 27, 2005, at 1:16 PM, Eric Chatonet wrote: > Hi Tim, > > I run a G4 bi-pro with Tiger 10.4.1. > HyperCard 2.4.1 US with many additional utilities including 120 > externals in use, a 3.4 MB library, color tools, a multi-purposes > plugin I wrote many years ago (1.5 MB) and much more... A real HC > factory which needs an allocation of 15 MB of RAM (nothing at the > moment but quite impressive some years ago :-) > All that works perfectly with Tiger as it worked with Jaguar and > Panther in the Classic environment :-) > I think the reported issues are personal ones ;-) > Pay attention to RAM allocation: old system 9 feature, often > forgotten since Unix came in... > > Le 27 juin 05 ? 21:40, Timothy Miller a ?crit : > > >> I skimmed the thread on Tiger breaks hyperCard. I wasn't too >> concerned at the time. >> >> I'm concluding the process of the OS 9 to OS X transition, once >> and for all. I'm on 10.3.9. I see its virtues. So, now I need >> another machine capable of running OS X. I'm thinking about Mac >> Mini, but they ship with Tiger installed. >> >> I will probably need to run hyperCard in classic mode >> occasionally, at least for the next year or so, until my HC-->Rev >> stacks are totally solid. I inquired on comp.sys.mac.apps. The >> main players there are usually reliable. They say hyperCard works >> fine on Tiger, in their experience. So, maybe only certain >> hyperCard features don't work? Which ones? >> >> If Tiger breaks hyperCard, it seems like it must break a lot of >> other Classic applications also, true? >> >> If Tiger-Breaks-HyperCard (and maybe a lot of other Classic >> applications, too) is a serious problem, would it be reasonable to >> replace Tiger with OS 10.3.9 on a new Mac Mini? My instincts say, >> "Don't try it." >> >> Since I'm on the topic, I don't mind that the Mac Mini is "only" a >> G4. The slow system bus speed concerns me, though -- 167 mhz. >> OTOH, I am only an occasional user of CPU-intensive applications. >> Is the slow system bus a serious bottleneck? I know this is a >> little OT. Sorry. I know this is a Rev group, but many of us are >> former HC users, some still in transition. >> > > Best Regards from Paris, > > Eric Chatonet. > ---------------------------------------------------------------- > So Smart Software > > For institutions, companies and associations > Built-to-order applications: management, multimedia, internet, etc. > Windows, Mac OS and Linux... With the French touch > > Free plugins and tutorials on my website > ---------------------------------------------------------------- > Web site http://www.sosmartsoftware.com/ > Email eric.chatonet at sosmartsoftware.com/ > Phone 33 (0)1 43 31 77 62 > Mobile 33 (0)6 20 74 50 86 > ---------------------------------------------------------------- > > _______________________________________________ > use-revolution mailing list > use-revolution at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution > > From SimPLsol at aol.com Mon Jun 27 16:36:16 2005 From: SimPLsol at aol.com (SimPLsol at aol.com) Date: Mon, 27 Jun 2005 16:36:16 EDT Subject: Tiger breaks hyperCard? Message-ID: <99.6143bf29.2ff1bd40@aol.com> Tim, I have been using HyperCard in Classic ever since there was "Classic". There are two issues in Tiger that were not problems in earlier OS X: some plugins will not load and reports made with 9 to 5 Reports do not work. Both of these issues involve a problem with the new way Tiger handles paths. This also affects other applications so I expect to see Apple fix it - they may have already fixed Reports with the 10.4.1 security upgrade, it seems to be working but I no longer use HyperCard enough to do thorough testing. Paul Looney From revdan at danshafer.com Mon Jun 27 16:37:52 2005 From: revdan at danshafer.com (Dan Shafer) Date: Mon, 27 Jun 2005 13:37:52 -0700 Subject: A naive question about sub windoes/cards??? In-Reply-To: <508397748.20050627201907@liv.ac.uk> References: <508397748.20050627201907@liv.ac.uk> Message-ID: Your question goes to the heart of Application design and modeling in Revolution, which is a pretty broad topic. However, there are a couple of short answers that might either satisfy your current need or lead you to somewhere else that does. It is entirely possible to include in one Rev stack/application cards/ windows that have different sizes and shapes from others. Doing so requires scripting those cards so that they resize when they open and close but it can be done. I personally never use this approach, but I've seen some apps that worked quite smoothly that use it a lot. In all likelihood, you're experiencing stacks/apps that are done in the "new" Revolutionary way, that is, with a single mainstack which opens sub-stacks for things like you're describing. Given the fact that you can have a conceptually unlimited number of sub-stacks, all or many of which may have just one card, this design approach has all the virtues of modularity. You can open such sub-stacks so they look and behave like dialog boxes or windows or even sheets on OS X. Your second question about making all the controls behave as a single entity is indeed answered by "groups." These are quite powerful and worth spending time getting to understand. You can have multiple groups, shared across all or multiple sub-sets of cards in your stacks, so the possibilities are literally endless. Enjoy Rev programming and know that there's a great community of people here who are eager to help newcomers sort it all out. On Jun 27, 2005, at 12:19 PM, Rob Beynon wrote: > All, > > I've seen stacks where popup windows, complete with a full set of > title bar tools and a menubar, can be made to appear, for example, to > record preferences. > > Are these cards? Can new cards be made to be a different size to > the first > card in a stack? And, how does one make all the controls (radi > buttons, fields etc) behave as a single entity (through a group?). > > This is a whole new level of RR programming for me, so some advice > would be very helpful. > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Dan Shafer, Revolution Consultant and Author http://www.shafermedia.com Get my book, "Revolution: Software at the Speed of Thought" From http://www.shafermedia.com/revolutionbooks.html From gandalf at doctorTimothyMiller.com Mon Jun 27 16:48:48 2005 From: gandalf at doctorTimothyMiller.com (Timothy Miller) Date: Mon, 27 Jun 2005 13:48:48 -0700 Subject: Tiger breaks hyperCard? In-Reply-To: <026594D0-4B01-4648-9541-D18602AEB435@sosmartsoftware.com> References: <026594D0-4B01-4648-9541-D18602AEB435@sosmartsoftware.com> Message-ID: Thanks a bunch, Eric. That's a big relief. While I'm at it, thanks to Richard Gaskin for his recent reply on another thread regarding stack names, stack labels, file names, etc. Tim Miller >Hi Tim, > >I run a G4 bi-pro with Tiger 10.4.1. >HyperCard 2.4.1 US with many additional utilities including 120 >externals in use, a 3.4 MB library, color tools, a multi-purposes >plugin I wrote many years ago (1.5 MB) and much more... A real HC >factory which needs an allocation of 15 --snip-- From jacque at hyperactivesw.com Mon Jun 27 17:18:42 2005 From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay) Date: Mon, 27 Jun 2005 16:18:42 -0500 Subject: Tiger breaks hyperCard? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <42C06D32.5010202@hyperactivesw.com> On 6/27/05 2:40 PM, Timothy Miller wrote: > If Tiger breaks hyperCard, it seems like it must break a lot of other > Classic applications also, true? I don't run Tiger, but this is what I have heard: Under Tiger, the global file paths which are stored in the Home stack are no longer recognized. If your stacks depend on the Home stack globals, they break. You can't open the script of the Home stack from within the Home stack. You can open it remotely, however (i.e., from some other stack, "edit script of stack Home" in the message box.) Some report that you cannot edit ANY stack script from within that stack; they must all be accessed remotely as above. Some report that Tiger 10.4.1 fixes the file path problems. Others say it doesn't. Some report that running HC off a non-startup volume fixes things. Others say it doesn't. -- Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com From mwieder at ahsoftware.net Mon Jun 27 17:17:43 2005 From: mwieder at ahsoftware.net (Mark Wieder) Date: Mon, 27 Jun 2005 14:17:43 -0700 Subject: Confirm Long File Name Bug in Player Object In-Reply-To: <52F65400-20C2-426C-9B3E-72CCF1FA0A44@hindu.org> References: <7792AF40-54E2-4628-8BFB-665E2621B701@hindu.org> <9369e855808a230642dfecde44fbf1ee@qldlearning.com> <2BA8BDD2-59E2-48C2-9CBE-2FCB99BC2F13@hindu.org> <679e3b449d7c703f2fa47f4814d7ff19@qldlearning.com> <5EAFBABB-D3CD-4E1E-B315-6C78742A5321@hindu.org> <068fc61310d3badce7e94d02aca3d9d2@swcp.com> <0B862B4D-EE2C-430D-A154-F792383758D5@hindu.org> <401381446.20050625085704@ahsoftware.net> <52F65400-20C2-426C-9B3E-72CCF1FA0A44@hindu.org> Message-ID: <10516562445.20050627141743@ahsoftware.net> Sivakatirswami- Monday, June 27, 2005, 1:30:58 PM, you wrote: S> answer "Are you finished with the last one? If so, shall I clear S> the header info?" S> with S> "Cancel" or "Clear Header" S> Better? I like the "Clear Header". That makes it obvious what will happen if I press the button. The concept of "Cancel" has always bothered me in contexts like this. If you are presenting two questions then there are four possible states for the user. It looks to me like you are taking care of two of those: clear header Y N finished ------------------ Y | Clear | | N | | Cancel | ------------------ If I'm the user and I'm finished with the last one, what will happen when I press "Cancel"? Will my changes disappear? If I'm not done what does Cancel mean? What if I'm done with the last one but I don't want to clear the header info? In this last case, I don't really know what you're intending, so I don't know if that's even an option - it may be clear from where I am in the application. -- -Mark Wieder mwieder at ahsoftware.net From ron at ecionmicroed.com Mon Jun 27 17:38:42 2005 From: ron at ecionmicroed.com (Ron Noice) Date: Mon, 27 Jun 2005 17:38:42 -0400 Subject: Note to self: ALWAYS apply script changes Message-ID: <2005627173842.363362@msi98> I've run into a problem in 2.6 that caused me to lose everything since the previous save. Twice! Which just goes to show ya -- it takes repetition to teach an old dog new tricks. Very likely I'm the only twit who would actually follow the sequence of events I'll outline here, but just in case someone else does, don't! The end result is that I get myself into a position where I try to Save but instead, Rev immediately quits without saving anything. Don't know if this can be classed as a bug or just as something stupid not to do. But the problem can be reproduced with the following clever steps (BTW, I'm using Windows XP - which should have been punishment enough - and Rev 2.6): 1. Open a stack or start a new one. 2. Make some changes -- insert new objects, move objects around, etc. 3. Create a new button. 4. Open the script editor for that button and put something into it. 5. But now, you're thinking "I wonder if ..." and you think you'll take a look at something else in the stack behind the script editor. So you move the script editor out of the way. Note that the script has not been Applied because you're not finished with it yet. <-- BIG MISTAKE 6. You look at the "something else" in your stack and then realize you don't need that new button after all. So you delete the button (yeah -- its script is still open!) 7. Better save, right? So press Ctrl+S to save and thus the trouble begins. At this point, a message opens in your unapplied script window: "The object you are editing appears to have been removed or deleted. Do you want to copy the text you are editing to the clipboard before closing this script?" along with a "Close" button and a "Copy and close" button. (A "Cancel" button would have been soooo nice!) So you click one of the buttons and then, to your amazement, everything disappears -- i.e., Rev quits and you lose all the changes you've made. Once I stopped pounding my head on the desk, I played around with this a bit and found that these seem to be the triggers that cause the problem: a) Using 2.6 is a trigger -- in 2.5.1, the Save dialogue appears FIRST to let you save and the error only appears when you quit so there is no calamity. b) Using Ctrl+S is a trigger -- if I use File | Save instead, the Save dialogue appears and lets you save. c) Not applying script changes is a definite trigger -- if I Apply first, deleting the button has no severe effect even if its script is still open. I can even use Ctrl+S in this case and the stack will still save after the error message has been dismissed. So the moral of this story, class, is to ALWAYS APPLY SCRIPT CHANGES before looking at something else even if you are not finished with the script. ... Ron From mark at maseurope.net Mon Jun 27 17:42:57 2005 From: mark at maseurope.net (Mark Smith) Date: Mon, 27 Jun 2005 22:42:57 +0100 Subject: A naive question about sub windoes/cards??? In-Reply-To: <508397748.20050627201907@liv.ac.uk> References: <508397748.20050627201907@liv.ac.uk> Message-ID: These pop-up windows will generally be single card sub-stacks of the main stack. If you're coming from Hypercard, you need to get your head around the fact that in Rev, a stack file can contain one mainstack and as many sub-stacks as you want, each having it's own size and even shape. Cheers, Mark On 27 Jun 2005, at 20:19, Rob Beynon wrote: > All, > > I've seen stacks where popup windows, complete with a full set of > title bar tools and a menubar, can be made to appear, for example, to > record preferences. > > Are these cards? Can new cards be made to be a different size to the > first > card in a stack? And, how does one make all the controls (radi > buttons, fields etc) behave as a single entity (through a group?). > > This is a whole new level of RR programming for me, so some advice > would be very helpful. > > -- > All best wishes, > Rob > > (Created at 20:16 on 27/06/2005) > > > > ============================================================== > Prof. Rob Beynon |+44 151 794 4312 (voice) > Dept. Veterinary Preclinical |+44 151 794 4243 (fax) > Sciences, University of Liverpool, > Crown Street, Liverpool L69 7ZJ |mailto:r.beynon at liv.ac.uk > -------------------------------------------------------------- > http://www.liv.ac.uk/pfg |http://www.csiv.org > ============================================================== > > _______________________________________________ > use-revolution mailing list > use-revolution at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution > From see3d at writeme.com Mon Jun 27 17:58:13 2005 From: see3d at writeme.com (Dennis Brown) Date: Mon, 27 Jun 2005 17:58:13 -0400 Subject: "repeat for each" in reverse order ? In-Reply-To: <0DEA6879-96C8-4BF9-A88F-6F3453852E98@scarlet.be> References: <0DEA6879-96C8-4BF9-A88F-6F3453852E98@scarlet.be> Message-ID: Wouter, I'm not sure what this example has to do with the question on the thread, but you first example is a speed killer. Putting things in front of a string causes the whole string to be shuffled to make room for the inserted string. It is a worst case situation --although I can always come up with a way to make it slower. It would be faster to use the slower repeat for i=number of lines in x down to 1 and then put the lines after like your second example. Splitting into an array is usually a good approach if the repeat for each construct will not work. However, it does take time to do the split. A repeat for each could process the whole string in less time than it takes to split it if a repeat for each fits the problem. In your second example, sorting the keys will also take time. You might be better off with just a simple repeat for i=number of lines in x down to 1 as the array index. You would have to try it on your array to see. Dennis On Jun 27, 2005, at 4:24 PM, Wouter wrote: > Hi, > > Using the following to reverse the order of lines of a field > containing 525605 chars in 14194 lines > > > reversing by: > > on mouseUp > put fld 1 into x > put the long seconds into zap > repeat for each line i in x > put i&cr before tList > end repeat > put the long seconds - zap > put tList into fld 1 > end mouseUp > > takes > 60 seconds on a slowbook (G4 400 mhz) > > > reversing by: > > on mouseUp > put fld 1 into x > put the long seconds into zap > split x by return > get the keys of x > sort it numeric descending > repeat for each line i in it > put x[i]&cr after tList > end repeat > put the long seconds - zap > put tList into fld 1 > end mouseUp > > yields around 0.413007 seconds on a slowbook (G4 400 mhz) > (which is not too bad) > > The amount of chars and lines has a big influence on the speed in > the first handler, > while in the second handler it has not. > > Greetings, > Wouter > > On 27 Jun 2005, at 14:40, Dennis Brown wrote: > > >> The repeat for each only goes in forward sequential order starting >> at the beginning, except for arrays where the order is indeterminate. >> >> I have requested a sequential access enhancement to allow for >> constructing this type of looping in a more flexible way (like >> parallel instantiation, starting at an arbitrary point, and >> reverse order), to make it possible to wander all over your data >> sequentially with the speed of the repeat for each method. >> However, it would be most useful with some improved string >> delimiter handling. Bugzilla # 2773 >> >> Having a reverse order repeat for each might be up to twice as >> slow as the forward version depending on how it is implemented, >> because it has to go backwards to the previous delimiter then >> forward to pick up the data, though it could pick up the data in >> reverse order on the way back. However, even twice as slow would >> be much faster than any other method. >> >> Dennis >> > _______________________________________________ > use-revolution mailing list > use-revolution at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution > From eric.chatonet at sosmartsoftware.com Mon Jun 27 18:03:45 2005 From: eric.chatonet at sosmartsoftware.com (Eric Chatonet) Date: Tue, 28 Jun 2005 00:03:45 +0200 Subject: Tiger breaks hyperCard? In-Reply-To: <42C06D32.5010202@hyperactivesw.com> References: <42C06D32.5010202@hyperactivesw.com> Message-ID: <5DBD7A8F-E1E8-4D35-9E93-670D31E6600A@sosmartsoftware.com> Hi Ti, Jacque and Chris, I haven't done any new development with HC since years but I reopen it often to get some old recipes in my huge lib. I made some experiments running 10.4.1. I have to add (according to Jacque and Chris comments) that HC is located on a non-startup disk dedicated to Classic only. I experimented that script editing works fine, start using and third party tools as windowScript too. The only problem I found (but I did not search very deep :-) is that if new folder filepaths are well stored in the home stack (as they have to be according to user navigation) they obviously can't be used by the engine to open without dialog the stacks which are NOT in the same folder than HC itself. This affects mainly the navigation buttons located on the home stack but can't be a real problem for any project :-) Le 27 juin 05 ? 23:18, J. Landman Gay a ?crit : > I don't run Tiger, but this is what I have heard: > > Under Tiger, the global file paths which are stored in the Home > stack are no longer recognized. If your stacks depend on the Home > stack globals, they break. > > You can't open the script of the Home stack from within the Home > stack. You can open it remotely, however (i.e., from some other > stack, "edit script of stack Home" in the message box.) > > Some report that you cannot edit ANY stack script from within that > stack; they must all be accessed remotely as above. > > Some report that Tiger 10.4.1 fixes the file path problems. Others > say it doesn't. > > Some report that running HC off a non-startup volume fixes things. > Others say it doesn't. Best Regards from Paris, Eric Chatonet. ---------------------------------------------------------------- So Smart Software For institutions, companies and associations Built-to-order applications: management, multimedia, internet, etc. Windows, Mac OS and Linux... With the French touch Free plugins and tutorials on my website ---------------------------------------------------------------- Web site http://www.sosmartsoftware.com/ Email eric.chatonet at sosmartsoftware.com/ Phone 33 (0)1 43 31 77 62 Mobile 33 (0)6 20 74 50 86 ---------------------------------------------------------------- From alex at tweedly.net Mon Jun 27 18:34:06 2005 From: alex at tweedly.net (Alex Tweedly) Date: Mon, 27 Jun 2005 23:34:06 +0100 Subject: compileIt for revolution? In-Reply-To: <42BD47CF.3060609@sover.net> References: <42BBEDE8.4010109@sover.net> <42BD47CF.3060609@sover.net> Message-ID: <42C07EDE.9040409@tweedly.net> Jon wrote: > I already posted the code and announced it on this list: look for my > image processor in my user space, open a large image (at least > 1000x1000), select Bright, and then Linear. Jon - I got an error trying to download your stack from RevOnline. Did you try to upload it (or change its name / description) over the weekend while the servers were dodgy ? Could you maybe either reload it, or if necessary contact Rev support so they know they need to figure out why it won't download (Currently it gives an error "File not Found The URL you have entered points to an unknown file." -- Alex Tweedly http://www.tweedly.net -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.323 / Virus Database: 267.8.2/29 - Release Date: 27/06/2005 From jhurley at infostations.com Mon Jun 27 18:34:42 2005 From: jhurley at infostations.com (Jim Hurley) Date: Mon, 27 Jun 2005 15:34:42 -0700 Subject: Tiger breaks hyperCard? In-Reply-To: <20050627203004.0189882493E@mail.runrev.com> References: <20050627203004.0189882493E@mail.runrev.com> Message-ID: I had heard, from a distance source, that a new Mac with Tiger installed will not necessarily include classic. Anybody know whether this is true? Jim From ambassador at fourthworld.com Mon Jun 27 18:40:31 2005 From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin) Date: Mon, 27 Jun 2005 15:40:31 -0700 Subject: Tiger breaks hyperCard? In-Reply-To: References: <20050627203004.0189882493E@mail.runrev.com> Message-ID: <42C0805F.6090109@fourthworld.com> Jim Hurley wrote: > I had heard, from a distance source, that a new Mac with Tiger installed > will not necessarily include classic. Anybody know whether this is true? Tiger does not include Classic, and I don't think Jaguar did either. So if you don't have an old install you'll have to re-install from an OS 9 CD. If this is a first Mac and you don't have an OS 9 CD, you're hosed. Half a decade into OS X, Apple is moving agressively to kill OS 9. The new MacTel machines will seal Classic's fate, as IIRC the Classic layer will be ported. -- Richard Gaskin Fourth World Media Corporation ___________________________________________________________ Ambassador at FourthWorld.com http://www.FourthWorld.com From rbarber at yhb.att.ne.jp Mon Jun 27 19:14:09 2005 From: rbarber at yhb.att.ne.jp (ron barber) Date: Tue, 28 Jun 2005 08:14:09 +0900 Subject: returnInField doesn't work In-Reply-To: <33385122-48B4-4336-98C6-2EFC37FA1D9C@kenjikojima.com> References: <200506271619.AAA13352@msr25.hinet.net> <33385122-48B4-4336-98C6-2EFC37FA1D9C@kenjikojima.com> Message-ID: Hi Friedrich, I'm sure Kenji's suggestion will do what you want to do. It might be helpful for you to read the find command in the docs to understand the various types of find and why one works for unicode and others don't. Along with Kenji's method, I also use offset: put the number of chars of the text of me into endchar put offset(findword,fld id 1003) into startchar if startchar is not 0 then select char startchar to startchar+endchar-1 of fld id 1003 end if hth Ron On Jun 28, 2005, at 1:55 AM, Kenji Kojima wrote: > Friedrich, > > Try this. > It works for Japanese. I don't know Chinese. > > on returnInField > find string me in field id 1003 > end returnInField > > -- > Kenji Kojima > http://www.kenjikojima.com/ > > > > On Jun 27, 2005, at 12:18 PM, Friedrich F. Grohmann wrote: > >> Ron, >> >> Thanks for telling me that you >> >> >>> search Japanese (and Chinese) within a fld successfully. Can you post >>> your script so maybe we can figure out what is not happening >>> correctly? >>> >> >> I'm most happy to do this. The script itself is of utter simplicity: >> >> on returnInField >> find the text of me in field id 1003 >> end returnInField >> >> I cannot imagine what could be wrong with that since it works with >> Roman >> text in other stacks. The font of the two fields involved is >> specified as >> "Apple LiGothic Medium,Chinese", and it is possible to search text in >> both of them via the message box. So what could be the problem with >> returnInField? >> >> Thanks in advance, >> Fritz >> _______________________________________________ >> use-revolution mailing list >> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >> subscription preferences: >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution >> >> >> > > > > _______________________________________________ > use-revolution mailing list > use-revolution at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution > From jbondy at sover.net Mon Jun 27 19:22:11 2005 From: jbondy at sover.net (Jon) Date: Mon, 27 Jun 2005 19:22:11 -0400 Subject: images In-Reply-To: References: <20050627120226.30AD08249DC@mail.runrev.com> Message-ID: <42C08A23.8070906@sover.net> Jim: Thanks so much for the handler, but 1) it would not compile as written, and 2) after I managed to get it to compile (probably by butchering it), it did nothing useful. I tried words like "image" and "icon" and only managed to get a number written into a file. If you had the time, I would appreciate it if you could make the code work. After an hour or so of fiddling, I know I can't. Sigh. All I'm trying to do is to move Scott's shiny numbered balls [sic] into the current set of code I'm running for the Nine Ball stack. Should be simple, right? Jon Jim Hurley wrote: >> >> Date: Mon, 27 Jun 2005 07:53:01 -0400 >> From: Jon >> Subject: images >> To: Revolution List >> >> I'm still fiddling with the Nine Ball With Spin game. I want to modify >> the ball images, but I can't for the life of me figure out how to do >> that. I figured out where the images were, in a "graphic", but can't >> figure out any way to actually see the image, save it modify it, load >> it, etc. >> >> Any hints? The property Inspector seems useless in this situation, >> which seems strange. >> >> Jon >> > > > Jon, > > I'm not the best person to answer this question but try the following: > > on mouseUP > ask "What image to save?" > if it is empty then exit mouseUp > put it into theImageToSave > ask file "Give it what file name? (Don't forget the suffix.)" > if it is empty then exit mouseUp > put it into fileName > if it is not empty then > put "binFile:"&fileName into theLongFileName > else > exit mouseUp > end if > put image theImageToSave into url theLongFileName > end mouseUP > > In theImageToSave be sure to include the suffix, e.g. ".png" > > This handler should put a file on disk which you can edit in > PhotoShop/Elements or whatever. > > It might be nice if Run Rev included an "Export" menu option to go > with the "Import" menu option. > > Somehow the numbers of the ball got lost in some of the iterations of > Nine Ball. > > You will find Nine Ball using Scott's shiny balls *with* attached > numbers on my web site: > > http://home.infostations.net/jhurley/ > > > Jim > From sarahr at genesearch.com.au Mon Jun 27 19:24:00 2005 From: sarahr at genesearch.com.au (Sarah Reichelt) Date: Tue, 28 Jun 2005 09:24:00 +1000 Subject: connecting to a remote mySQL database In-Reply-To: <5719C2CC-AD6C-4FC7-BF50-FFD753AEF1D3@pandora.be> References: <5719C2CC-AD6C-4FC7-BF50-FFD753AEF1D3@pandora.be> Message-ID: <073B1F28-9560-455F-BEAE-F902450BCDEE@genesearch.com.au> > When connecting from rev to a mySQL database (4.1.9) I keep on > getting the error "Client does not support authentication protocol > requested by server; consider upgrading MySQL client". > I've used the mySQL Administrator to check the "Use old passwords" > checkbox in the security tab of the startup variables, but no > success, the error remains... > > The error occurs when connecting from a windows RR to localhost as > well as when connecting from a OS-X RR to the IP Address. > > > Anyone any advice on how to connect to mySQL 4.1.x? Try this solution: http://lists.runrev.com/pipermail/use-revolution/2005-May/056883.html Sarah From 3mcgrath at adelphia.net Mon Jun 27 19:27:18 2005 From: 3mcgrath at adelphia.net (Thomas McGrath III) Date: Mon, 27 Jun 2005 19:27:18 -0400 Subject: Confirm Long File Name Bug in Player Object In-Reply-To: <52F65400-20C2-426C-9B3E-72CCF1FA0A44@hindu.org> References: <7792AF40-54E2-4628-8BFB-665E2621B701@hindu.org> <9369e855808a230642dfecde44fbf1ee@qldlearning.com> <2BA8BDD2-59E2-48C2-9CBE-2FCB99BC2F13@hindu.org> <679e3b449d7c703f2fa47f4814d7ff19@qldlearning.com> <5EAFBABB-D3CD-4E1E-B315-6C78742A5321@hindu.org> <068fc61310d3badce7e94d02aca3d9d2@swcp.com> <0B862B4D-EE2C-430D-A154-F792383758D5@hindu.org> <401381446.20050625085704@ahsoftware.net> <52F65400-20C2-426C-9B3E-72CCF1FA0A44@hindu.org> Message-ID: <8cac7ac90eb8831d1e819d363fb1db1d@adelphia.net> Sivakatirswami, I would leave the No and Yes buttons and just change the text: answer "Are you finished with the last one? This will clear the header info." with "No" or "Yes" or maybe clarify what the last one is: answer "If you are finished, do you want to clear the header information?" with "No" or "Yes" HTH TOm On Jun 27, 2005, at 4:30 PM, Sivakatirswami wrote: > We appreciate constructive criticism. > > I'm not a trained developer, and just do the best I can... some > computer savvy users take your apps and run with them... gives you > the false sense that you did a great job with the UI... but I'm > learning that's not true as some of my "naive" users come back to me > with questions I never dreamed of... > > In anticipation of doing more for the public in the not-too-distant > future see below > > On Jun 25, 2005, at 5:57 AM, Mark Wieder wrote: > >> >> S> answer "Are you finished with the last one? If so, shall I clear >> S> the header info?" with "No" or "Yes" >> >> I understand the intent, but I have to say that I find two yes-or-no >> questions in a single answer dialog with a single response a bit >> confusing to the user. > > OK I think I understand... better if the buttons describe the actions > and don't just throw a boolean at the user... how about this: > > answer "Are you finished with the last one? If so, shall I clear > the header info?" > > with > > "Cancel" or "Clear Header" > > Better? > > skts > > > >> >> S> put theTape into tTruncatedFileName >> S> put char 1 to 13 of (item -1 of theTape) & ".mp3" into item >> -1 >> S> of tTruncatedFileName >> S> rename file theTape to tTruncatedFileName >> >> ... and here I would check to make sure that file tTruncatedFileName >> doesn't already exist before trying to rename it... >> >> Anyway, glad you found a workaround for now. >> >> -- >> -Mark Wieder >> mwieder at ahsoftware.net > > _______________________________________________ > use-revolution mailing list > use-revolution at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution > > Thomas J. McGrath III SCS 1000 Killarney Dr. Pittsburgh, PA 15234 412-885-8541 From sarahr at genesearch.com.au Mon Jun 27 19:33:58 2005 From: sarahr at genesearch.com.au (Sarah Reichelt) Date: Tue, 28 Jun 2005 09:33:58 +1000 Subject: Printing Causes Rev & Standalone to Crash In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: > I'm printing a large number of cards (100-150 cards, each landscape > A4) using something like: > > open printing with dialog > repeat with x = 1 to cardsToPrint > print card x > end repeat > close printing > > However, it gets to the last card and then crashes both Rev and > also any standalone I've built doing the same thing. I've tried > both Rev 2.5.1 and Rev 6 (under Mac OS X 10.3.9) and get the same > result. I've tried a Print Preview and a Print to PDF and both > crash out of Rev/standalone! If I do Print Preview, I get nothing > after the crash. If I do Print to PDF, I get an incomplete damaged > PDF file. > A few weeks ago, someone reported crashes when printing large numbers of cards/pages. Can you split your print job into smaller batches? Also, make sure that you aren't trying to print a card that doesn't exist. Cheers, Sarah From jbondy at sover.net Mon Jun 27 19:38:25 2005 From: jbondy at sover.net (Jon) Date: Mon, 27 Jun 2005 19:38:25 -0400 Subject: copy of bounced message Message-ID: <42C08DF1.4040405@sover.net> Alex: Thanks for your interest. Rather than bothering the Rev folks, just try www.jonbondy.com/jlbimage.rev :) Jon Alex Tweedly wrote: > Jon wrote: > >> I already posted the code and announced it on this list: look for my >> image processor in my user space, open a large image (at least >> 1000x1000), select Bright, and then Linear. > > > > Jon - I got an error trying to download your stack from RevOnline. > > Did you try to upload it (or change its name / description) over the > weekend while the servers were dodgy ? > Could you maybe either reload it, or if necessary contact Rev support > so they know they need to figure out why it won't download (Currently > it gives an error > "File not Found > The URL you have entered points to an unknown file." > From ptrendler at bigpond.com Mon Jun 27 20:10:40 2005 From: ptrendler at bigpond.com (Pat Trendler) Date: Tue, 28 Jun 2005 10:10:40 +1000 Subject: images References: <42BFE89D.4080708@sover.net> <003001c57b12$7e909700$0100000a@super> Message-ID: <001901c57b75$da49d8f0$0100000a@super> Jon, Sorry, forgot to tell you how to get a copy of the image, which is what you actually asked. Use export. on mouseUp export image "scottRed7.png" to file "ball7.png" as PNG end mouseUp This will save the image into the same folder as the stack. You can give a filepath if you want, and save in whatever format you want. Pat patrend at bigpond.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "Pat Trendler" To: "How to use Revolution" Sent: Monday, June 27, 2005 10:19 PM Subject: Re: images > Jon, > > If it is any help, the balls are buttons with icons. See in the property > inspector(for any of the balls) - icons & borders, click on the little > wand thingey by the icon and id no., choose "this stack" from the drop > down menu and see all the ball icons. > > Pat > patrend at bigpond.com > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Jon" > To: "Revolution List" > Sent: Monday, June 27, 2005 9:53 PM > Subject: images > > >> I'm still fiddling with the Nine Ball With Spin game. I want to modify >> the ball images, but I can't for the life of me figure out how to do >> that. I figured out where the images were, in a "graphic", but can't >> figure out any way to actually see the image, save it modify it, load >> it, etc. >> >> Any hints? The property Inspector seems useless in this situation, >> which seems strange. >> >> Jon >> >> _______________________________________________ >> use-revolution mailing list >> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >> subscription preferences: >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution >> > > _______________________________________________ > use-revolution mailing list > use-revolution at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution From preid at reidit.co.uk Mon Jun 27 20:29:43 2005 From: preid at reidit.co.uk (Peter Reid) Date: Tue, 28 Jun 2005 01:29:43 +0100 Subject: Printing Causes Rev & Standalone to Crash In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: >>I'm printing a large number of cards (100-150 cards, each landscape >>A4) using something like: >> >> open printing with dialog >> repeat with x = 1 to cardsToPrint >> print card x >> end repeat >> close printing >> >>However, it gets to the last card and then crashes both Rev and >>also any standalone I've built doing the same thing. I've tried >>both Rev 2.5.1 and Rev 6 (under Mac OS X 10.3.9) and get the same >>result. I've tried a Print Preview and a Print to PDF and both >>crash out of Rev/standalone! If I do Print Preview, I get nothing >>after the crash. If I do Print to PDF, I get an incomplete damaged >>PDF file. >> > >A few weeks ago, someone reported crashes when printing large >numbers of cards/pages. Can you split your print job into smaller >batches? Also, make sure that you aren't trying to print a card that >doesn't exist. > >Cheers, >Sarah Unfortunately I have the requirement to be able to ether print to paper or to PDF and if I split into smaller batches, I'll end up with a separate PDF file for each batch. Also, it only prints the cards it's got. Do you know if this is already a bugzilla report (crashing when printing large number of pages) or should I file it? Cheers Peter From wouter.abraham at scarlet.be Mon Jun 27 20:54:52 2005 From: wouter.abraham at scarlet.be (Buster) Date: Tue, 28 Jun 2005 02:54:52 +0200 Subject: "repeat for each" in reverse order ? In-Reply-To: <8FD6FAA0-0B5C-49B5-9500-4757B63841D4@scarlet.be> References: <8FD6FAA0-0B5C-49B5-9500-4757B63841D4@scarlet.be> Message-ID: <556FEAF8-A687-4671-A803-B85192BBEA87@scarlet.be> Dennis, I thought the original question on this thread was: > > Hi list, > > Is there a way to use > "repeat for each element thisIndexTerm in listOfTerms" > in reverse order, like in > "repeat with i=number of items of myVar down to 1" ? > > Thanks, > JB > which has changed to a feature request only later on in the thread. This feature request would be nice, but doesn't solve the problem right now. My answer and there you are right, I should have placed it as a reply to JB's original question and not to yours, was only to help out and show some peculiarities of the different solutions proposed, which were: The first method I mentioned (which you called a speed killer) is *not* fast at all when the number of lines exceed a certain level (depending on cpu). And the larger the number of chars in those lines the slower the performance. The second method on the contrary doesn't increase processing time in the same way the first method does and is by far the better solution for larger amounts of lines and chars. Greetings, Wouter On 28 Jun 2005, at 00:51, Wouter wrote: > > > Begin forwarded message: > >> From: Dennis Brown >> Date: Mon 27 Jun 2005 23:58:13 GMT+02:00 >> To: How to use Revolution >> Subject: Re: "repeat for each" in reverse order ? >> Reply-To: How to use Revolution >> >> >> Wouter, >> >> I'm not sure what this example has to do with the question on the >> thread, but you first example is a speed killer. Putting things >> in front of a string causes the whole string to be shuffled to >> make room for the inserted string. It is a worst case situation -- >> although I can always come up with a way to make it slower. It >> would be faster to use the slower repeat for i=number of lines in >> x down to 1 and then put the lines after like your second example. >> >> Splitting into an array is usually a good approach if the repeat >> for each construct will not work. However, it does take time to >> do the split. A repeat for each could process the whole string in >> less time than it takes to split it if a repeat for each fits the >> problem. >> >> In your second example, sorting the keys will also take time. You >> might be better off with just a simple repeat for i=number of >> lines in x down to 1 as the array index. You would have to try it >> on your array to see. >> >> Dennis >> >> >> On Jun 27, 2005, at 4:24 PM, Wouter wrote: >> >> >>> Hi, >>> >>> Using the following to reverse the order of lines of a field >>> containing 525605 chars in 14194 lines >>> >>> >>> reversing by: >>> >>> on mouseUp >>> put fld 1 into x >>> put the long seconds into zap >>> repeat for each line i in x >>> put i&cr before tList >>> end repeat >>> put the long seconds - zap >>> put tList into fld 1 >>> end mouseUp >>> >>> takes > 60 seconds on a slowbook (G4 400 mhz) >>> >>> >>> reversing by: >>> >>> on mouseUp >>> put fld 1 into x >>> put the long seconds into zap >>> split x by return >>> get the keys of x >>> sort it numeric descending >>> repeat for each line i in it >>> put x[i]&cr after tList >>> end repeat >>> put the long seconds - zap >>> put tList into fld 1 >>> end mouseUp >>> >>> yields around 0.413007 seconds on a slowbook (G4 400 mhz) >>> (which is not too bad) >>> >>> The amount of chars and lines has a big influence on the speed in >>> the first handler, >>> while in the second handler it has not. >>> >>> Greetings, >>> Wouter >>> >>> On 27 Jun 2005, at 14:40, Dennis Brown wrote: >>> >>> >>> >>>> The repeat for each only goes in forward sequential order >>>> starting at the beginning, except for arrays where the order is >>>> indeterminate. >>>> >>>> I have requested a sequential access enhancement to allow for >>>> constructing this type of looping in a more flexible way (like >>>> parallel instantiation, starting at an arbitrary point, and >>>> reverse order), to make it possible to wander all over your data >>>> sequentially with the speed of the repeat for each method. >>>> However, it would be most useful with some improved string >>>> delimiter handling. Bugzilla # 2773 >>>> >>>> Having a reverse order repeat for each might be up to twice as >>>> slow as the forward version depending on how it is implemented, >>>> because it has to go backwards to the previous delimiter then >>>> forward to pick up the data, though it could pick up the data in >>>> reverse order on the way back. However, even twice as slow >>>> would be much faster than any other method. >>>> >>>> Dennis From see3d at writeme.com Mon Jun 27 21:22:19 2005 From: see3d at writeme.com (Dennis Brown) Date: Mon, 27 Jun 2005 21:22:19 -0400 Subject: "repeat for each" in reverse order ? In-Reply-To: <556FEAF8-A687-4671-A803-B85192BBEA87@scarlet.be> References: <8FD6FAA0-0B5C-49B5-9500-4757B63841D4@scarlet.be> <556FEAF8-A687-4671-A803-B85192BBEA87@scarlet.be> Message-ID: <03B17786-9EA7-4E08-946D-561C856A9BBF@writeme.com> Wouter, I was under the impression that JB wanted to read a list sequentially in reverse with the repeat for each to make it go faster, not reverse the list. The split into an array is going to be faster at reading the list in any order given that the repeat for each in reverse does not exist. However, If we were given a more complete definition of the problem, then perhaps the list could have generated a truly optimized solution. For instance, I have had to create some solutions for doing stuff in reverse to a list, that I managed to use repeat for each loops that ran much faster than splitting. A genius might be able to find all kinds of clever ways to use the existing Transcript capabilities, but it would sure be nice if the language allowed us mere mortals to tackle a problem in a straight forward way without suffering orders of magnitude speed penalties. As a matter of course, figuring out how to use arrays is one of the most straight forward ways to manage data. Arrays are not the fastest nor the most space efficient, but they are usually a reasonable compromise for most problems. I see that our scripting conferences has nothing for arrays in the queue. This might be a good topic based on the number of times it is used as a solution for newbie questions. Dennis On Jun 27, 2005, at 8:54 PM, Buster wrote: > Dennis, > > I thought the original question on this thread was: > > > > >> Hi list, >> >> Is there a way to use >> "repeat for each element thisIndexTerm in listOfTerms" >> in reverse order, like in >> "repeat with i=number of items of myVar down to 1" ? >> >> Thanks, >> JB >> > > > > which has changed to a feature request only later on in the thread. > This feature request would be nice, but doesn't solve the problem > right now. > My answer and there you are right, I should have placed it as a > reply to JB's original question and not to yours, was only to help > out and show some peculiarities of the different solutions > proposed, which were: > > The first method I mentioned (which you called a speed killer) is > *not* fast at all when the number of lines exceed a certain level > (depending on cpu). And the larger the number of chars in those > lines the slower the performance. > > The second method on the contrary doesn't increase processing time > in the same way the first method does and is by far the better > solution for larger amounts of lines and chars. > > Greetings, > Wouter > > On 28 Jun 2005, at 00:51, Wouter wrote: > > >> >> >> Begin forwarded message: >> >> >>> From: Dennis Brown >>> Date: Mon 27 Jun 2005 23:58:13 GMT+02:00 >>> To: How to use Revolution >>> Subject: Re: "repeat for each" in reverse order ? >>> Reply-To: How to use Revolution >>> >>> >>> Wouter, >>> >>> I'm not sure what this example has to do with the question on the >>> thread, but you first example is a speed killer. Putting things >>> in front of a string causes the whole string to be shuffled to >>> make room for the inserted string. It is a worst case situation >>> --although I can always come up with a way to make it slower. It >>> would be faster to use the slower repeat for i=number of lines in >>> x down to 1 and then put the lines after like your second example. >>> >>> Splitting into an array is usually a good approach if the repeat >>> for each construct will not work. However, it does take time to >>> do the split. A repeat for each could process the whole string >>> in less time than it takes to split it if a repeat for each fits >>> the problem. >>> >>> In your second example, sorting the keys will also take time. >>> You might be better off with just a simple repeat for i=number of >>> lines in x down to 1 as the array index. You would have to try >>> it on your array to see. >>> >>> Dennis >>> >>> >>> On Jun 27, 2005, at 4:24 PM, Wouter wrote: >>> >>> >>> >>>> Hi, >>>> >>>> Using the following to reverse the order of lines of a field >>>> containing 525605 chars in 14194 lines >>>> >>>> >>>> reversing by: >>>> >>>> on mouseUp >>>> put fld 1 into x >>>> put the long seconds into zap >>>> repeat for each line i in x >>>> put i&cr before tList >>>> end repeat >>>> put the long seconds - zap >>>> put tList into fld 1 >>>> end mouseUp >>>> >>>> takes > 60 seconds on a slowbook (G4 400 mhz) >>>> >>>> >>>> reversing by: >>>> >>>> on mouseUp >>>> put fld 1 into x >>>> put the long seconds into zap >>>> split x by return >>>> get the keys of x >>>> sort it numeric descending >>>> repeat for each line i in it >>>> put x[i]&cr after tList >>>> end repeat >>>> put the long seconds - zap >>>> put tList into fld 1 >>>> end mouseUp >>>> >>>> yields around 0.413007 seconds on a slowbook (G4 400 mhz) >>>> (which is not too bad) >>>> >>>> The amount of chars and lines has a big influence on the speed >>>> in the first handler, >>>> while in the second handler it has not. >>>> >>>> Greetings, >>>> Wouter >>>> >>>> On 27 Jun 2005, at 14:40, Dennis Brown wrote: >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>> The repeat for each only goes in forward sequential order >>>>> starting at the beginning, except for arrays where the order is >>>>> indeterminate. >>>>> >>>>> I have requested a sequential access enhancement to allow for >>>>> constructing this type of looping in a more flexible way (like >>>>> parallel instantiation, starting at an arbitrary point, and >>>>> reverse order), to make it possible to wander all over your >>>>> data sequentially with the speed of the repeat for each >>>>> method. However, it would be most useful with some improved >>>>> string delimiter handling. Bugzilla # 2773 >>>>> >>>>> Having a reverse order repeat for each might be up to twice as >>>>> slow as the forward version depending on how it is implemented, >>>>> because it has to go backwards to the previous delimiter then >>>>> forward to pick up the data, though it could pick up the data >>>>> in reverse order on the way back. However, even twice as slow >>>>> would be much faster than any other method. >>>>> >>>>> Dennis >>>>> > > _______________________________________________ > use-revolution mailing list > use-revolution at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution > From warren at howsoft.com Mon Jun 27 21:31:18 2005 From: warren at howsoft.com (Bob Warren) Date: Mon, 27 Jun 2005 22:31:18 -0300 Subject: Suggestion for correcting the IDE's script editor Message-ID: <001301c57b81$24381520$0201a8c0@john> I am not the first to suggest that debugging the script editor is fundamental. Personally, it drives me nuts every time I use it. I can never get the indents quite where I want them, and the editor quite easily gets confused. In my opinion, this is because it tries to be too clever by analysing the actual content of what we are typing. For example, if a type an "IF - THEN" statement, it will indent the next line because it expects me to type the next part. But I prefer to make the next line blank and then type "End If" before I forget it. This simple act is enough for the editor to get confused. Here is my suggestion: 1) An "indent", actioned when I press the TAB key a single time, really consists of 4 blank characters. If I press TAB continuously, I get 4, 8, 12, 16... blanks on the left hand side. If I press BACKSPACE, a single indent (4 blank characters) is removed. However, if I press the LEFT ARROW key, the cursor will be positioned backwards one character at a time, including through the spaces that constitute the indents. In contrast, while the RIGHT ARROW key moves the cursor one character to the right, the DELETE key also removes a single character in front of the cursor, including the spaces constituting an indent. 2) From the cursor position in the middle or at the end of a line I have already typed, if I press ENTER to go to the next line, the indentation is exactly the same as the line above it (but I can change this by using the TAB or BACKSPACE keys on the indent(s) afterwards if I want). 3) If I position the cursor on the left of a line I have already typed and then press ENTER, a new apparently blank line is created above it. However, if I click the mouse on this new line way out on the right, or I press the UP ARROW key to navigate to it, the cursor is placed in the DEFAULT cursor position, which corresponds to the indentation of the original line where ENTER was typed. In a nutshell, the indentation of lines created above or below an existing line have the same initial indentation(s) as the existing line. The editor does not attempt to analyse what I am typing. However, that said, perhaps the way of creating a new handler could be left as it is, i.e., after typing "on whatever", the next line is indented and "end whatever" is added automatically. That's it. I hope it will not put MAC users off if I tell you that I have simply tried to describe the way the VB6 editor works, so for an example of how well this simple system functions, I suggest taking a look at VB6. I think it was Picasso who once said, "Good artists copy, but great artists steal!" From katir at hindu.org Mon Jun 27 21:31:36 2005 From: katir at hindu.org (Sivakatirswami) Date: Mon, 27 Jun 2005 15:31:36 -1000 Subject: Confirm Long File Name Bug in Player Object In-Reply-To: <10516562445.20050627141743@ahsoftware.net> References: <7792AF40-54E2-4628-8BFB-665E2621B701@hindu.org> <9369e855808a230642dfecde44fbf1ee@qldlearning.com> <2BA8BDD2-59E2-48C2-9CBE-2FCB99BC2F13@hindu.org> <679e3b449d7c703f2fa47f4814d7ff19@qldlearning.com> <5EAFBABB-D3CD-4E1E-B315-6C78742A5321@hindu.org> <068fc61310d3badce7e94d02aca3d9d2@swcp.com> <0B862B4D-EE2C-430D-A154-F792383758D5@hindu.org> <401381446.20050625085704@ahsoftware.net> <52F65400-20C2-426C-9B3E-72CCF1FA0A44@hindu.org> <10516562445.20050627141743@ahsoftware.net> Message-ID: basic but still intriquing discussion, tks for bearing with it. It seems overly subtle perhaps, but not really... I had a user use select her entire transcript and "CUT" and it disappeared... she wrote me an email asking what to do ! I wrote back... "Just paste it back again..." of course by then it was too late. Anyway, I'm using "send" the app to save itself now every 5 minutes and will shortly cause the whole thing to dump the .xml file one each save *and* save the transcript into a global they can revert too as a triple safety against losing work. So if my app or my rev player stand alone or their system goes up in smoke, they will have their work up to the last five minutes on the hard drive. Point: these kinds of users are very easily confused and will just "stop in their tracks" if things don't seem obvious. I like your 2 questions 4 states diagram. Made me think my problem is in the use of "finished" which is ambiquous because what it really means is a) "user has completde transcription of the last .mp3 file, has proofread the text and successfully uploaded the xml file to our server here and is ready to start a new one... clean slate..." b) Having done that, and downloaded some new lectures to transcribe, they are supposed to then select a new audio file to transcribe. This dialog is a fail safe to make sure they actually completed a) above before starting a new one... if they do start a new one, the data in the substack "header" is cleared... Also clearing the header is a really an internal maintenance thing, like wiping off the black board the next class... the students in the next class really don't need to know about that event any more than we need to tell them "I am about to put empty into all the globals in this stack..." [i.e. in answer to your question... no, the user would never want to retain the header info when starting a new transcript.] All we really need to do is check ask the user if they succeed with a) above and then proceed. How about this (using Thomas's idea to just re-write the question...) : Answer "Was your last transcript complete and successfully uploaded?" with "Yes" or "No" Sivakatirswami On Jun 27, 2005, at 11:17 AM, Mark Wieder wrote: > Sivakatirswami- > > Monday, June 27, 2005, 1:30:58 PM, you wrote: > > S> answer "Are you finished with the last one? If so, shall I clear > S> the header info?" > > S> with > > S> "Cancel" or "Clear Header" > > S> Better? > > I like the "Clear Header". That makes it obvious what will happen if I > press the button. The concept of "Cancel" has always bothered me in > contexts like this. > > If you are presenting two questions then there are four possible > states for the user. It looks to me like you are taking care of two of > those: > > clear header > Y N > finished ------------------ > Y | Clear | | > N | | Cancel | > ------------------ > > If I'm the user and I'm finished with the last one, what will happen > when I press "Cancel"? Will my changes disappear? If I'm not done what > does Cancel mean? What if I'm done with the last one but I don't want > to clear the header info? In this last case, I don't really know what > you're intending, so I don't know if that's even an option - it may be > clear from where I am in the application. > > -- > -Mark Wieder > mwieder at ahsoftware.net > > _______________________________________________ > use-revolution mailing list > use-revolution at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution > From mwieder at ahsoftware.net Mon Jun 27 22:49:35 2005 From: mwieder at ahsoftware.net (Mark Wieder) Date: Mon, 27 Jun 2005 19:49:35 -0700 Subject: ANN Daily Crytoquote--my misspelling In-Reply-To: <1119521325.42ba8a2d37885@staffmail.ed.ac.uk> References: <1119521325.42ba8a2d37885@staffmail.ed.ac.uk> Message-ID: <11736473696.20050627194935@ahsoftware.net> Marielle- Thursday, June 23, 2005, 3:08:45 AM, you wrote: ML> If you use the url below, you will directly get to see the list of words which ML> have a frequency of 10 or more. ML> http://lexicall.org/repository/results.php?mtd_file=data%2F2_words%2Fenglish%2Fdb_mrc.mtd&flds%5B1%5D=WORD&minvals%5B5%5D=10&submit=Submit ML> Make you enter it as a continuous line in your browser, the 500 words limit has ML> been removed and will remain so for a week, so you will see the full list on ML> your screen. Be patient - 10262 words. Yes, but a lot of duplicates. If you filter out the dupes you end up with 5066 words. on RemoveDuplicates pWordList local tFileName local tWordList local aWords repeat for each line tLine in pWordList put "x" into aWords[tLine] end repeat put the keys of aWords into tWordList sort tWordList return tWordList end RemoveDuplicates -- -Mark Wieder mwieder at ahsoftware.net From jacque at hyperactivesw.com Mon Jun 27 23:42:54 2005 From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay) Date: Mon, 27 Jun 2005 22:42:54 -0500 Subject: "repeat for each" in reverse order ? In-Reply-To: <03B17786-9EA7-4E08-946D-561C856A9BBF@writeme.com> References: <8FD6FAA0-0B5C-49B5-9500-4757B63841D4@scarlet.be> <556FEAF8-A687-4671-A803-B85192BBEA87@scarlet.be> <03B17786-9EA7-4E08-946D-561C856A9BBF@writeme.com> Message-ID: <42C0C73E.10600@hyperactivesw.com> On 6/27/05 8:22 PM, Dennis Brown wrote: > I see that our scripting conferences has nothing for arrays in the > queue. This might be a good topic based on the number of times it is > used as a solution for newbie questions. Noted. ;) -- Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com From jacque at hyperactivesw.com Tue Jun 28 00:04:12 2005 From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay) Date: Mon, 27 Jun 2005 23:04:12 -0500 Subject: Printing Causes Rev & Standalone to Crash In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <42C0CC3C.4020800@hyperactivesw.com> On 6/27/05 7:29 PM, Peter Reid wrote: > Unfortunately I have the requirement to be able to ether print to paper > or to PDF and if I split into smaller batches, I'll end up with a > separate PDF file for each batch. Also, it only prints the cards it's got. > > Do you know if this is already a bugzilla report (crashing when printing > large number of pages) or should I file it? Yes, it's in there. It wouldn't hurt to add a comment and/or an example stack if you want: -- Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com From jacque at hyperactivesw.com Tue Jun 28 00:06:12 2005 From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay) Date: Mon, 27 Jun 2005 23:06:12 -0500 Subject: Failing building Standalone on MacOSX 10.3.9 and Tiger 10.4.1 In-Reply-To: References: <20050627014847.697C882493F@mail.runrev.com> <42C04F0E.9060806@hyperactivesw.com> Message-ID: <42C0CCB4.202@hyperactivesw.com> On 6/27/05 2:26 PM, Timothy Bleiler wrote: > I'm also suddenly unable to build standalones on Mac OS X 10.3.9 > although I've done so previously. The download site at runrev is not > working right now and maybe this has something to do with it. When I try > to save as a standalone, the preopenStack and OpenStack messages are > sent to my stack and then the whole thing fails. This has never happened > to me before. I'm on 10.3.9 and I just made a test standalone with Rev 2.6.5 without any problem. Does it work for you with a different stack? -- Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com From scott at tactilemedia.com Tue Jun 28 00:41:04 2005 From: scott at tactilemedia.com (Scott Rossi) Date: Mon, 27 Jun 2005 21:41:04 -0700 Subject: Test Message-ID: Is this coming through? Regards, Scott Rossi Creative Director Tactile Media, Multimedia & Design ----- E: scott at tactilemedia.com W: http://www.tactilemedia.com From jacque at hyperactivesw.com Tue Jun 28 00:43:45 2005 From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay) Date: Mon, 27 Jun 2005 23:43:45 -0500 Subject: Test In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <42C0D581.1050500@hyperactivesw.com> On 6/27/05 11:41 PM, Scott Rossi wrote: > Is this coming through? .sdrawkcab si ti tub ,seY -- Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com From scott at tactilemedia.com Tue Jun 28 00:50:29 2005 From: scott at tactilemedia.com (Scott Rossi) Date: Mon, 27 Jun 2005 21:50:29 -0700 Subject: Test In-Reply-To: <42C0D581.1050500@hyperactivesw.com> Message-ID: Recently, J. Landman Gay wrote: >> Is this coming through? > > .sdrawkcab si ti tub ,seY . ) t o n ( y n n u f o s e r ' u o Y Regards, Scott Rossi Creative Director Tactile Media, Multimedia & Design ----- E: scott at tactilemedia.com W: http://www.tactilemedia.com From jacque at hyperactivesw.com Tue Jun 28 00:55:40 2005 From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay) Date: Mon, 27 Jun 2005 23:55:40 -0500 Subject: Test In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <42C0D84C.8020207@hyperactivesw.com> On 6/27/05 11:50 PM, Scott Rossi wrote: > Recently, J. Landman Gay wrote: > > >>>Is this coming through? >> >>.sdrawkcab si ti tub ,seY > > > . > ) > t > o > n > ( > > y > n > n > u > f > > o > s > > e > r > ' > u > o > Y > ...draobyek ym nrut dluohs I ebyaM .tiaW .hO over... -- Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com From FlexibleLearning at aol.com Tue Jun 28 02:12:00 2005 From: FlexibleLearning at aol.com (FlexibleLearning at aol.com) Date: Tue, 28 Jun 2005 02:12:00 EDT Subject: Confirm Long File Name Bug in Player Object Message-ID: <1e6.3e998d7a.2ff24430@aol.com> > answer "Are you finished with the last one? If so, shall I clear > the header info?" with "No" or "Yes" This would confuse the hell out of me, I am afraid. What if I want to finish and NOT clear the header? The questions are not mutually exclusive. It also assumes I know what you mean by 'the last one'. Finally, it is almost always a good idea to include 'Cancel' as an option in case the User made a mistake or changed their mindI would suggest... 'Are you finished with the last [specify what here]?' No/Yes/Cancel if Yes, 'Shall I clear the header?' No/Yes/Cancel OR 'Are you finished with [specify what here]? If you click YES the header will be cleared.' No/Yes/Cancel Invoice for 2c. /H From jbv.silences at Club-Internet.fr Tue Jun 28 02:20:57 2005 From: jbv.silences at Club-Internet.fr (jbv) Date: Tue, 28 Jun 2005 08:20:57 +0200 Subject: "repeat for each" in reverse order ? References: <8FD6FAA0-0B5C-49B5-9500-4757B63841D4@scarlet.be> <556FEAF8-A687-4671-A803-B85192BBEA87@scarlet.be> <03B17786-9EA7-4E08-946D-561C856A9BBF@writeme.com> Message-ID: <42C0EC47.EE1AACB5@Club-Internet.fr> Hi guys, Thanks for spending so much time on my question. I sent a couple of posts during last week end, but they never went through... So here's a short reminder of what I had originally in mind : I only wanted to know if there was a way to benefit the speed of "repeat for each item i in myVar" (or "each line" or "each char"...) while reading items in reverse order... It looks that there isn't any built-in Transcript way of doing this, and a few members including me in my "disapeared" posts) suggested an improvement to the "repeat for each" statement in the for of : repeat for each item i in myVar backwards "backwards" being an optional parameter that would allow items to be read in reverse order. Cheers, JB > Wouter, > > I was under the impression that JB wanted to read a list sequentially > in reverse with the repeat for each to make it go faster, not reverse > the list. The split into an array is going to be faster at reading > the list in any order given that the repeat for each in reverse does > not exist. However, If we were given a more complete definition of > the problem, then perhaps the list could have generated a truly > optimized solution. For instance, I have had to create some > solutions for doing stuff in reverse to a list, that I managed to use > repeat for each loops that ran much faster than splitting. A genius > might be able to find all kinds of clever ways to use the existing > Transcript capabilities, but it would sure be nice if the language > allowed us mere mortals to tackle a problem in a straight forward way > without suffering orders of magnitude speed penalties. > > As a matter of course, figuring out how to use arrays is one of the > most straight forward ways to manage data. Arrays are not the > fastest nor the most space efficient, but they are usually a > reasonable compromise for most problems. > > I see that our scripting conferences has nothing for arrays in the > queue. This might be a good topic based on the number of times it is > used as a solution for newbie questions. > > Dennis > > On Jun 27, 2005, at 8:54 PM, Buster wrote: > > > Dennis, > > > > I thought the original question on this thread was: > > > > > > > > >> Hi list, > >> > >> Is there a way to use > >> "repeat for each element thisIndexTerm in listOfTerms" > >> in reverse order, like in > >> "repeat with i=number of items of myVar down to 1" ? > >> > >> Thanks, > >> JB > >> > > > > > > > which has changed to a feature request only later on in the thread. > > This feature request would be nice, but doesn't solve the problem > > right now. > > My answer and there you are right, I should have placed it as a > > reply to JB's original question and not to yours, was only to help > > out and show some peculiarities of the different solutions > > proposed, which were: > > > > The first method I mentioned (which you called a speed killer) is > > *not* fast at all when the number of lines exceed a certain level > > (depending on cpu). And the larger the number of chars in those > > lines the slower the performance. > > > > The second method on the contrary doesn't increase processing time > > in the same way the first method does and is by far the better > > solution for larger amounts of lines and chars. > > > > Greetings, > > Wouter > > > > On 28 Jun 2005, at 00:51, Wouter wrote: > > > > > >> > >> > >> Begin forwarded message: > >> > >> > >>> From: Dennis Brown > >>> Date: Mon 27 Jun 2005 23:58:13 GMT+02:00 > >>> To: How to use Revolution > >>> Subject: Re: "repeat for each" in reverse order ? > >>> Reply-To: How to use Revolution > >>> > >>> > >>> Wouter, > >>> > >>> I'm not sure what this example has to do with the question on the > >>> thread, but you first example is a speed killer. Putting things > >>> in front of a string causes the whole string to be shuffled to > >>> make room for the inserted string. It is a worst case situation > >>> --although I can always come up with a way to make it slower. It > >>> would be faster to use the slower repeat for i=number of lines in > >>> x down to 1 and then put the lines after like your second example. > >>> > >>> Splitting into an array is usually a good approach if the repeat > >>> for each construct will not work. However, it does take time to > >>> do the split. A repeat for each could process the whole string > >>> in less time than it takes to split it if a repeat for each fits > >>> the problem. > >>> > >>> In your second example, sorting the keys will also take time. > >>> You might be better off with just a simple repeat for i=number of > >>> lines in x down to 1 as the array index. You would have to try > >>> it on your array to see. > >>> > >>> Dennis > >>> > >>> > >>> On Jun 27, 2005, at 4:24 PM, Wouter wrote: > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>>> Hi, > >>>> > >>>> Using the following to reverse the order of lines of a field > >>>> containing 525605 chars in 14194 lines > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> reversing by: > >>>> > >>>> on mouseUp > >>>> put fld 1 into x > >>>> put the long seconds into zap > >>>> repeat for each line i in x > >>>> put i&cr before tList > >>>> end repeat > >>>> put the long seconds - zap > >>>> put tList into fld 1 > >>>> end mouseUp > >>>> > >>>> takes > 60 seconds on a slowbook (G4 400 mhz) > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> reversing by: > >>>> > >>>> on mouseUp > >>>> put fld 1 into x > >>>> put the long seconds into zap > >>>> split x by return > >>>> get the keys of x > >>>> sort it numeric descending > >>>> repeat for each line i in it > >>>> put x[i]&cr after tList > >>>> end repeat > >>>> put the long seconds - zap > >>>> put tList into fld 1 > >>>> end mouseUp > >>>> > >>>> yields around 0.413007 seconds on a slowbook (G4 400 mhz) > >>>> (which is not too bad) > >>>> > >>>> The amount of chars and lines has a big influence on the speed > >>>> in the first handler, > >>>> while in the second handler it has not. > >>>> > >>>> Greetings, > >>>> Wouter > >>>> > >>>> On 27 Jun 2005, at 14:40, Dennis Brown wrote: > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>>> The repeat for each only goes in forward sequential order > >>>>> starting at the beginning, except for arrays where the order is > >>>>> indeterminate. > >>>>> > >>>>> I have requested a sequential access enhancement to allow for > >>>>> constructing this type of looping in a more flexible way (like > >>>>> parallel instantiation, starting at an arbitrary point, and > >>>>> reverse order), to make it possible to wander all over your > >>>>> data sequentially with the speed of the repeat for each > >>>>> method. However, it would be most useful with some improved > >>>>> string delimiter handling. Bugzilla # 2773 > >>>>> > >>>>> Having a reverse order repeat for each might be up to twice as > >>>>> slow as the forward version depending on how it is implemented, > >>>>> because it has to go backwards to the previous delimiter then > >>>>> forward to pick up the data, though it could pick up the data > >>>>> in reverse order on the way back. However, even twice as slow > >>>>> would be much faster than any other method. > >>>>> > >>>>> Dennis > >>>>> > > > > _______________________________________________ > > use-revolution mailing list > > use-revolution at lists.runrev.com > > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > > subscription preferences: > > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution > > > > _______________________________________________ > use-revolution mailing list > use-revolution at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution From ambassador at fourthworld.com Tue Jun 28 02:15:23 2005 From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin) Date: Mon, 27 Jun 2005 23:15:23 -0700 Subject: Confirm Long File Name Bug in Player Object In-Reply-To: <1e6.3e998d7a.2ff24430@aol.com> References: <1e6.3e998d7a.2ff24430@aol.com> Message-ID: <42C0EAFB.4080208@fourthworld.com> FlexibleLearning at aol.com wrote: > > >> answer "Are you finished with the last one? If so, shall I clear >> the header info?" with "No" or "Yes" > > > > > This would confuse the hell out of me, I am afraid. What if I want to finish > and NOT clear the header? The questions are not mutually exclusive. It also > assumes I know what you mean by 'the last one'. Finally, it is almost always > a good idea to include 'Cancel' as an option in case the User made a mistake > or changed their mindI would suggest... > > 'Are you finished with the last [specify what here]?' No/Yes/Cancel > if Yes, 'Shall I clear the header?' No/Yes/Cancel > > OR > > 'Are you finished with [specify what here]? If you click YES the header will > be cleared.' No/Yes/Cancel The abmiguity can be further reduced by using the verb from the question as the label for the confirmation button, e.g.: Do you can to clear the header? Cancel / Don't Clear / Clear Ever since Save dialogs started doing that support costs dropped industry-wide. :) -- Richard Gaskin Managing Editor, revJournal _______________________________________________________ Rev tips, tutorials and more: http://www.revJournal.com From mwieder at ahsoftware.net Tue Jun 28 02:22:11 2005 From: mwieder at ahsoftware.net (Mark Wieder) Date: Mon, 27 Jun 2005 23:22:11 -0700 Subject: Test In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <6049230519.20050627232211@ahsoftware.net> Scott- Monday, June 27, 2005, 9:41:04 PM, you wrote: SR> Is this coming through? Is anyone else having trouble posting to the list? Ever since the server migration it takes me two or three tries to get a message posted. I keep getting "554: relaying denied" messages. -- -Mark Wieder mwieder at ahsoftware.net From eric.chatonet at sosmartsoftware.com Tue Jun 28 03:05:13 2005 From: eric.chatonet at sosmartsoftware.com (Eric Chatonet) Date: Tue, 28 Jun 2005 09:05:13 +0200 Subject: Test In-Reply-To: <6049230519.20050627232211@ahsoftware.net> References: <6049230519.20050627232211@ahsoftware.net> Message-ID: <3A020DD4-82A1-4A45-BB31-E6B9FADDA977@sosmartsoftware.com> The same for me and all of us I assume. Seems to be fixed now. Le 28 juin 05 ? 08:22, Mark Wieder a ?crit : > Is anyone else having trouble posting to the list? Ever since the > server migration it takes me two or three tries to get a message > posted. I keep getting "554: relaying denied" messages. Best Regards from Paris, Eric Chatonet. ---------------------------------------------------------------- So Smart Software For institutions, companies and associations Built-to-order applications: management, multimedia, internet, etc. Windows, Mac OS and Linux... With the French touch Free plugins and tutorials on my website ---------------------------------------------------------------- Web site http://www.sosmartsoftware.com/ Email eric.chatonet at sosmartsoftware.com/ Phone 33 (0)1 43 31 77 62 Mobile 33 (0)6 20 74 50 86 ---------------------------------------------------------------- From mwieder at ahsoftware.net Tue Jun 28 03:45:35 2005 From: mwieder at ahsoftware.net (Mark Wieder) Date: Tue, 28 Jun 2005 00:45:35 -0700 Subject: Confirm Long File Name Bug in Player Object In-Reply-To: References: <7792AF40-54E2-4628-8BFB-665E2621B701@hindu.org> <9369e855808a230642dfecde44fbf1ee@qldlearning.com> <2BA8BDD2-59E2-48C2-9CBE-2FCB99BC2F13@hindu.org> <679e3b449d7c703f2fa47f4814d7ff19@qldlearning.com> <5EAFBABB-D3CD-4E1E-B315-6C78742A5321@hindu.org> <068fc61310d3badce7e94d02aca3d9d2@swcp.com> <0B862B4D-EE2C-430D-A154-F792383758D5@hindu.org> <401381446.20050625085704@ahsoftware.net> <52F65400-20C2-426C-9B3E-72CCF1FA0A44@hindu.org> <10516562445.20050627141743@ahsoftware.net> Message-ID: <5954234525.20050628004535@ahsoftware.net> Sivakatirswami- Monday, June 27, 2005, 6:31:36 PM, you wrote: S> drive. Point: these kinds of users are very easily confused and will S> just "stop in their tracks" if things don't seem obvious. Yes. As should we all, I think. If things are ambiguous it's time to stop and take stock. S> How about this (using Thomas's idea to just re-write the question...) : S> Answer "Was your last transcript complete and successfully uploaded?" S> with "Yes" or "No" Much better. It's a single question now and presents the user with a simple yes-or-no branching point. It's clear that if the last session was complete then it doesn't matter if the buffer is cleared, and I would assume from this that pressing "No" would leave things as they are. As a user of your system I don't really care if the header is cleared behind the scenes or not - all I'm concerned with is whether or not I've completed the last edit. -- -Mark Wieder mwieder at ahsoftware.net From shedrup at ms9.hinet.net Tue Jun 28 03:43:03 2005 From: shedrup at ms9.hinet.net (Friedrich F. Grohmann) Date: Tue, 28 Jun 2005 15:43:03 +0800 Subject: returnInField doesn't work Message-ID: <200506280744.PAA07233@msr2.hinet.net> Kenji, Stephen and Ron, Thanks for all your input and suggestions. As a matter of fact, I tried things like "find string the text of me" and "find words the text of me" before, to no avail. As I mentioned in my first message, even the beep command didn't work with returnInField, so something more than just details of search operations must have been involved. Anyway, I created a new field with the same specifications as the previous search field and, lo and behold, it's not only happily beeping but "find string me" works, too! That's most encouraging. The strange thing is that both fields, the troublesome and the new one, are practically identical, apart from their position and slightly different size. I checked the object inspector and didn't find any factor which could explain the discrepancy in behaviour. Pretty mindboggling. Again, thanks for your kind help. Fritz From eric.chatonet at sosmartsoftware.com Tue Jun 28 03:54:12 2005 From: eric.chatonet at sosmartsoftware.com (Eric Chatonet) Date: Tue, 28 Jun 2005 09:54:12 +0200 Subject: Fwd: Tiger and HC References: Message-ID: <8D01F39B-E51F-4F77-9526-E94B5CD1D2BF@sosmartsoftware.com> Hi all, Here is a mail that I received from Chris: it can interest all of them who want to run HC with Tiger but, unfortunately, don't have two drives. D?but du message r?exp?di? : > I posted this about three weeks ago but the recent > round of questions suggests that it would be good to > cover again. > > HC and Reports work find under Tiger if you put the HC > app on a non startup partition. Since most of us don't > have a spare patition sitting around, the best thing > to do is to setup a virtual disk. > > It turns out that the OSX Disk Utility makes this > quite easy. Open it up and click the icon titled New > Image. Pick a size that will hold your HC folder > contents and make sure it is of the read/write type. > Click create and you will get two things 1) a .DMG > file in the location you specified and 2) the virtual > disk mounted to your desktop. What is very surprising > to me is that from this point forward, OSX will keep > the two synchronized. > > Put your HC folder contents over there and launch your > app. It should work well aside from any path specific > stuff that broke by changing the location of HC. > > Now drag the virtual disk to the trash. Once it is > gone, double-click on your DMG file and the virutal > disk will reappear and voila everything you just > trashed should be there. > > Bonus, you can drag the HC app to your dock and then > trash the virtual disk and your dock icon will still > work. It will remount the virtual disk and launch HC > without question. > > Note that only the HC app, and therfore Home, have to > be on the virtual disk. You can put all your other > stacks wherever you like. Best Regards from Paris, Eric Chatonet. ---------------------------------------------------------------- So Smart Software For institutions, companies and associations Built-to-order applications: management, multimedia, internet, etc. Windows, Mac OS and Linux... With the French touch Free plugins and tutorials on my website ---------------------------------------------------------------- Web site http://www.sosmartsoftware.com/ Email eric.chatonet at sosmartsoftware.com/ Phone 33 (0)1 43 31 77 62 Mobile 33 (0)6 20 74 50 86 ---------------------------------------------------------------- From joel.guillod at net2000.ch Tue Jun 28 05:19:15 2005 From: joel.guillod at net2000.ch (Joel Guillod) Date: Tue, 28 Jun 2005 11:19:15 +0200 Subject: [bug reason found] Re: Failing building Standalone on MacOSX 10.3.9 and Tiger 10.4.1 In-Reply-To: <20050627203004.53F9E824937@mail.runrev.com> References: <20050627203004.53F9E824937@mail.runrev.com> Message-ID: Thanks all folks for the advices. I have now been able to build a standalone by commenting the "savingStandalone" in the main stack. In the IDE this handler works properly without error but when executed by the standalone builder it unexpected quits Rev. I am going to update the bug in this direction. From capellan2000 at yahoo.com Tue Jun 28 06:04:59 2005 From: capellan2000 at yahoo.com (Alejandro Tejada) Date: Tue, 28 Jun 2005 03:04:59 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Sucess compiling Alex Tweedly DLL! In-Reply-To: <20050627170004.DBF408248E4@mail.runrev.com> Message-ID: <20050628100459.17860.qmail@web40511.mail.yahoo.com> on Mon, 27 Jun 2005 thierry wrote: > Was quite funny when i saw your emails yesterday; > because i've decided to play a bit with the > externals during last week-end.. and > after having download > whatever was existing on the subject, plus DevC++, > plus lot of scans on this list... > i did struggle at the same time as you on the > same subject. i'm glad to read that many developers have a real interest in developing their own externals, for Rev. :-) > How are you doing with this beast :-) i have installed DevC++ and LCC compilers, but all this experimentation is paused, because i have to finish grading student's final projects for my classes. > Just now, i've been able to compile and link one > external. > If you so desire i can send you the makefile i've > made for this > ( i'm using the Gnu make ) This is great news! :-) Could you post the exact steps (like Alex Tweedly) to configure the compiler, for this dll? Could you post all the files (compressed) in a website of your own? If not, you could send them to me and with your permission, i'll post them (for download) in my geocities site. :-) Best regards, al Visit my site: http://www.geocities.com/capellan2000/ __________________________________ Discover Yahoo! Stay in touch with email, IM, photo sharing and more. Check it out! http://discover.yahoo.com/stayintouch.html From douez at wanadoo.fr Tue Jun 28 06:22:59 2005 From: douez at wanadoo.fr (thierry) Date: Tue, 28 Jun 2005 12:22:59 +0200 Subject: Sucess compiling Alex Tweedly DLL! In-Reply-To: <20050628100459.17860.qmail@web40511.mail.yahoo.com> References: <20050628100459.17860.qmail@web40511.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <42C12503.60306@wanadoo.fr> Ok, i'll send you a HowTo explaining how i did manage, with all the details for the C compiler and linkers... which was the essentials information i didn't have, or partly.... HTH, thierry >>Just now, i've been able to compile and link one >>external. >>If you so desire i can send you the makefile i've >>made for this >>( i'm using the Gnu make ) >> >> > >This is great news! :-) > >Could you post the exact steps (like Alex Tweedly) >to configure the compiler, for this dll? > >Could you post all the files (compressed) in a >website of your own? > >If not, you could send them to me and with >your permission, i'll post them (for download) >in my geocities site. :-) > >Best regards, al > > From rjb at robelko.com Tue Jun 28 06:53:31 2005 From: rjb at robelko.com (Robert Brenstein) Date: Tue, 28 Jun 2005 12:53:31 +0200 Subject: "repeat for each" in reverse order ? In-Reply-To: <360693a712cc05e02fba6e8f7c45452d@swcp.com> References: <360693a712cc05e02fba6e8f7c45452d@swcp.com> Message-ID: >On Jun 27, 2005, at 1:57 AM, Robert Brenstein wrote: > >> repeat for each element x in y descending > >Now, is that with keys in descending order or elements in descending order? > >Dar Sorry, Dar, I used element in the loose sense and really meant chunk types: char, word, item, line. When it comes to the 'each element' form, you are right that it is ambiguous at first glance, but would seem reasonable that sorting applies to the elements themselves since keys are not explicitly entering the picture. To get sorting on keys we would need to say repeat for each line tKey in the keys of myArray ascending While we can do sorting explicitly with the sort command, I like the idea of having ascending and descending options as a new feature. It would combine two steps into a single engine process without a need to shuffle sorted results back and forth between engine and our program. Probably, to make it more complete, we would need to include numeric and international as options similarly as the sort itself has them. Now, this has, of course, drifted away from the original request. For that one, the syntax could be something like repeat for each foo in foofoo down No sorting involved, simple reversal of direction. Down is the closest of the existing keywords for me and already used in another form of repeat. And the other poster convinced me that even though it would be slower then forwards, it would still likely has enough speed benefit. Robert PS If this needs to be discussed further, may be we should move it to the improve-list. If anyone is filing it in bugzilla, let us know the number. From jbondy at sover.net Tue Jun 28 08:01:13 2005 From: jbondy at sover.net (Jon) Date: Tue, 28 Jun 2005 08:01:13 -0400 Subject: Test In-Reply-To: <6049230519.20050627232211@ahsoftware.net> References: <6049230519.20050627232211@ahsoftware.net> Message-ID: <42C13C09.9090205@sover.net> Mark: Me, too! Jon Mark Wieder wrote: >Scott- > >Monday, June 27, 2005, 9:41:04 PM, you wrote: > >SR> Is this coming through? > >Is anyone else having trouble posting to the list? Ever since the >server migration it takes me two or three tries to get a message >posted. I keep getting "554: relaying denied" messages. > > > From rjb at robelko.com Tue Jun 28 08:08:03 2005 From: rjb at robelko.com (Robert Brenstein) Date: Tue, 28 Jun 2005 14:08:03 +0200 Subject: "repeat for each" in reverse order ? In-Reply-To: References: <360693a712cc05e02fba6e8f7c45452d@swcp.com> Message-ID: >When it comes to the 'each element' form, you are right that it is >ambiguous at first glance, but would seem reasonable that sorting >applies to the elements themselves since keys are not explicitly >entering the picture. To get sorting on keys we would need to say > > repeat for each line tKey in the keys of myArray ascending > Oops. My thinking went a bit astray. What you are talking about is more like repeat for each element foo of fooArray ascending by key of each Robert From jerry at daniels-mara.com Tue Jun 28 08:53:57 2005 From: jerry at daniels-mara.com (Jerry Daniels) Date: Tue, 28 Jun 2005 07:53:57 -0500 Subject: compileIt for revolution? In-Reply-To: <42BC5F39.80506@fourthworld.com> References: <20050622170404.76336.qmail@web51107.mail.yahoo.com> <5D2B36D7-6FB4-40B6-8BE5-3D5BE47F9C22@danshafer.com> <6.2.1.2.1.20050623062308.01f295b0@pop3.pon.net> <70b2f83b05ce89065405b139046d3876@daniels-mara.com> <42BC5F39.80506@fourthworld.com> Message-ID: Maybe there was one better than Mark's! On Jun 24, 2005, at 2:30 PM, Richard Gaskin wrote: > Jerry Daniels wrote: >> I thought Tom Pittman did a very good job of maintaining the purity >> of HyperTalk when he did CompileIt! Any future efforts could stand on >> his shoulders in that regard. > > Just get an interface more like Mark Hanrek's please. :) > > So much faster, so much simpler.... > > -- > Richard Gaskin > Managing Editor, revJournal > _______________________________________________________ > Rev tips, tutorials and more: http://www.revJournal.com > _______________________________________________ > use-revolution mailing list > use-revolution at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution > From higginsta at mac.com Mon Jun 27 19:22:48 2005 From: higginsta at mac.com (Todd Higgins) Date: Mon, 27 Jun 2005 19:22:48 -0400 Subject: Tiger breaks hyperCard? In-Reply-To: References: <20050627203004.0189882493E@mail.runrev.com> Message-ID: This is true. New machines do not ship with the Classic System Folder. But If you have an existing Macintosh you can just copy the System Folder over. Todd On Jun 27, 2005, at 6:34 PM, Jim Hurley wrote: > I had heard, from a distance source, that a new Mac with Tiger > installed will not necessarily include classic. Anybody know > whether this is true? > > Jim > _______________________________________________ > use-revolution mailing list > use-revolution at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution > From larsbrehmer at mac.com Mon Jun 27 16:43:49 2005 From: larsbrehmer at mac.com (Lars Brehmer) Date: Mon, 27 Jun 2005 23:43:49 +0300 Subject: returnInfield Message-ID: <69FF67FD-F7A4-4D40-BED0-3FB0E622CA6E@mac.com> Friedrich I faced the exact same thing when I set all my fields to unicode textFont, which Chinese obviously is. I am uncertain whether you can somehow use unicode in the simple returnInfield \ find handler, because at the same time I decided to put the text of all card fields into custom properties which are only displayed as text in the fields when the card is called up. This led me to a far superior find system that marks cards that have the string in the customProps and then lists the results in a separate window with buttons that go to each card that contains the word, or string, and the label each button is the word or string I am looking for. In my case, you can search for an English or an Estonian word, but I choose to have the result button labels be the Estonian text, but both are possible of course. This involves using the uniEncode and uniDecode commands I got from the kind people from this list, and it is incredibly fast and efficient this way. My project is for Estonian vocabulary - when, for example, I search for the English word "get," there are, for now, 8 matches (things like get dressed, get ready, get, get drunk, etc, so i have 8 buttons with 8 different Estonian labels, each one goes to the card in question. I would be glad to show you the various scripts I made that allow this. Contact me offline, if you'd like - I've been dying for the chance to really give something back, after gettting so much advice and help! Lars From larsbrehmer at mac.com Mon Jun 27 09:36:18 2005 From: larsbrehmer at mac.com (Lars Brehmer) Date: Mon, 27 Jun 2005 16:36:18 +0300 Subject: returnInfield Message-ID: <499EB0B1-9520-47CF-A880-EFB9D3AAC27E@mac.com> Friedrich I faced the exact same thing when I set all my fields to unicode textFont, which Chinese obviously is. I am uncertain whether you can somehow use unicode in the simple returnInfield \ find handler, because at the same time I decided to put the text of all card fields into custom properties which are only displayed as text in the fields when the card is called up. This led me to a far superior find system that marks cards that have the string in the customProps and then lists the results in a separate window with buttons that go to each card that contains the word, or string, and the label each button is the word or string I am looking for. In my case, you can search for an English or an Estonian word, but I choose to have the result button labels be the Estonian text, but both are possible of course. This involves using the uniEncode and uniDecode commands I got from the kind people from this list, and it is incredibly fast and efficient this way. My project is for Estonian vocabulary - when, for example, I search for the English word "get," there are, for now, 8 matches (things like get dressed, get ready, get, get drunk, etc, so i have 8 buttons with 8 different Estonian labels, each one goes to the card in question. I would be glad to show you the various scripts I made that allow this. Contact me offline, if you'd like - I've been dying for the chance to really give something back, after gettting so much advice and help! Lars From ralf at dol.net Tue Jun 28 09:31:28 2005 From: ralf at dol.net (Ralph R. Forehand) Date: Tue, 28 Jun 2005 09:31:28 -0400 Subject: Revolution home page?? Message-ID: What's happening??? I've unable to open the Revolution Home Page or Scripting Conference page the last couple days!! I keep getting "Connection refused" message. Anyone else having the same problem and/or know what the problem is?? Thanks in Advance and TAKE CARE, Ralph \ From rev at armbase.com Tue Jun 28 09:42:33 2005 From: rev at armbase.com (rev at armbase.com) Date: Tue, 28 Jun 2005 14:42:33 +0100 Subject: Revolution home page?? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1119966153.42c153c912f69@webmail.armbase.com> Quoting "Ralph R. Forehand" : > What's happening??? I've unable to open the Revolution Home Page or Scripting > Conference page the last couple days!! I keep getting "Connection refused" > message. > > Anyone else having the same problem and/or know what the problem is?? I cant get access but I've only used my laptop and thought it was a work firewall. Obviously it is global (excuse the pun). I'm using rev 2.5 Cheers Bob > > Thanks in Advance and TAKE CARE, > Ralph > \ > > _______________________________________________ > use-revolution mailing list > use-revolution at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription > preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution > From ralf at dol.net Tue Jun 28 10:49:10 2005 From: ralf at dol.net (Ralph R. Forehand) Date: Tue, 28 Jun 2005 10:49:10 -0400 Subject: Revolution home page?? In-Reply-To: <1119966153.42c153c912f69@webmail.armbase.com> References: <1119966153.42c153c912f69@webmail.armbase.com> Message-ID: Problem gone!! I'm finally getting the Revolution home page again. Ralph --------------------------- >Quoting "Ralph R. Forehand" : > > > What's happening??? I've unable to open the Revolution Home Page or Scripting > > Conference page the last couple days!! I keep getting "Connection refused" > > message. > > > > Anyone else having the same problem and/or know what the problem is?? > >I cant get access but I've only used my laptop and thought it was a work >firewall. Obviously it is global (excuse the pun). I'm using rev 2.5 > >Cheers >Bob > > > > Thanks in Advance and TAKE CARE, > > Ralph > > \ > > > > _______________________________________________ > > use-revolution mailing list > > use-revolution at lists.runrev.com > > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription > > preferences: > > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution > > > > > > >_______________________________________________ >use-revolution mailing list >use-revolution at lists.runrev.com >Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: >http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution From jhurley at infostations.com Tue Jun 28 10:58:03 2005 From: jhurley at infostations.com (Jim Hurley) Date: Tue, 28 Jun 2005 07:58:03 -0700 Subject: images In-Reply-To: <20050627233559.B514F824941@mail.runrev.com> References: <20050627233559.B514F824941@mail.runrev.com> Message-ID: > >Message: 14 >Date: Mon, 27 Jun 2005 19:22:11 -0400 >From: Jon >Subject: Re: images >To: How to use Revolution >Message-ID: <42C08A23.8070906 at sover.net> >Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed > >Jim: > >Thanks so much for the handler, but 1) it would not compile as written, >and 2) after I managed to get it to compile (probably by butchering it), >it did nothing useful. I tried words like "image" and "icon" and only >managed to get a number written into a file. > >If you had the time, I would appreciate it if you could make the code >work. After an hour or so of fiddling, I know I can't. Sigh. Jon, Below I have copied and pasted the script I use for exporting images. It compiles and it has the advantage of putting the file where I want it--as opposed to putting everything in the RR application file: on mouseUP ask "What image to save?" if it is empty then exit mouseUp put it into theImageToSave ask file "Give it what file name?" if it is empty then exit mouseUp put it into fileName if it is not empty then put "binFile:"&fileName into theLongFileName else exit mouseUp end if put image theImageToSave into url theLongFileName end mouseUP Be sure you respond exactly to the request for the image name. > >All I'm trying to do is to move Scott's shiny numbered balls [sic] into >the current set of code I'm running for the Nine Ball stack. Should be >simple, right? Reminds me of a Prof. of physics who was doing a demonstration to illustrate the dynamics of shperical opjects. He began: "I have three balls," which brought a few giggles, but he brought the room down when he followed with: "And one of them's green." Jim From see3d at writeme.com Tue Jun 28 10:59:32 2005 From: see3d at writeme.com (Dennis Brown) Date: Tue, 28 Jun 2005 10:59:32 -0400 Subject: "repeat for each" in reverse order ? In-Reply-To: References: <360693a712cc05e02fba6e8f7c45452d@swcp.com> Message-ID: What I would like to see is a way to access the next or previous "element" in a list independent of the repeat structure. We have something similar in the offset function --offset (findString,searchString,skipChars). The key is to have a concept for a pointer of sorts. The pointer in the offset function is the skipChars parameter. You could just about simulate this capability using the offset function (not tested): global gStringName,gStringNamePtr function nextItemStringName --don't want to pass the actual strings get offset(itemDel(), gStringName, gStringNamePtr) if it = 0 then --delimiter not found, must be end of string return char gStringNamePtr to -1 of gStringName --last item in the string, or empty else return char gStringNamePtr to gStringNamePtr +it-1 of gStringName --grab the next item put it+1 into gStringNamePtr --advance the pointer to after the delimiter end if end nextItemStringName Of course this way of doing it is not so general, a bit awkward, and the function calls would kill a lot of the potential speed. That is why a built-in function would be much better. Perhaps a syntax something like this: nextItem(stringName,charOffsetVar) The variable name specified for the charOffsetVar would have the pointer that gets modified. You could also make it a command something like: nextThing stringName with charOffsetVar by item Having sequential access methods like this would allow a much greater freedom to process one or more lists at the same time without suffering the usual speed penalties. Dennis On Jun 28, 2005, at 8:08 AM, Robert Brenstein wrote: >> When it comes to the 'each element' form, you are right that it is >> ambiguous at first glance, but would seem reasonable that sorting >> applies to the elements themselves since keys are not explicitly >> entering the picture. To get sorting on keys we would need to say >> >> repeat for each line tKey in the keys of myArray ascending >> >> > > Oops. My thinking went a bit astray. What you are talking about is > more like > > repeat for each element foo of fooArray ascending by key of each > > Robert > _______________________________________________ > use-revolution mailing list > use-revolution at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution > From jhurley at infostations.com Tue Jun 28 11:11:28 2005 From: jhurley at infostations.com (Jim Hurley) Date: Tue, 28 Jun 2005 08:11:28 -0700 Subject: ANN Daily Crytoquote--my misspelling In-Reply-To: <20050628061058.A06D0824945@mail.runrev.com> References: <20050628061058.A06D0824945@mail.runrev.com> Message-ID: > >Message: 7 >Date: Mon, 27 Jun 2005 19:49:35 -0700 >From: Mark Wieder >Subject: Re: ANN Daily Crytoquote--my misspelling >To: How to use Revolution >Message-ID: <11736473696.20050627194935 at ahsoftware.net> >Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii > >Marielle- > >Thursday, June 23, 2005, 3:08:45 AM, you wrote: > >ML> If you use the url below, you will directly get to see the list >of words which >ML> have a frequency of 10 or more. > >ML> >http://lexicall.org/repository/results.php?mtd_file=data%2F2_words%2Fenglish%2Fdb_mrc.mtd&flds%5B1%5D=WORD&minvals%5B5%5D=10&submit=Submit > >ML> Make you enter it as a continuous line in your browser, the 500 >words limit has >ML> been removed and will remain so for a week, so you will see the >full list on >ML> your screen. Be patient - 10262 words. > >Yes, but a lot of duplicates. If you filter out the dupes you end up >with 5066 words. > >on RemoveDuplicates pWordList > local tFileName > local tWordList > local aWords > > repeat for each line tLine in pWordList > put "x" into aWords[tLine] > end repeat > > put the keys of aWords into tWordList > sort tWordList > return tWordList >end RemoveDuplicates > >-- >-Mark Wieder > mwieder at ahsoftware.net Mark, Marielle word list turned out to be just what I needed. All the right words and no more. Reminds me of Einstein's exhortation: "Make things as simple as possible, but not simpler." I used to following to get rid of the duplicates. On RemoveDuplicates put field "theDictionary" into tList put "" into tPrevious repeat for each line tLine in tList if tLine <> tPrevious then put tLine & cr after results put tLine into tPrevious end repeat put results into field "duplicatesEliminatedDictionary" end RemoveDuplicates Your's is probably faster and I have yet to absorb RR's more powerful implementation of arrays--I'm stuck back in FORTRAN. Jim From rev at armbase.com Tue Jun 28 11:43:37 2005 From: rev at armbase.com (rev at armbase.com) Date: Tue, 28 Jun 2005 16:43:37 +0100 Subject: Revolution home page?? In-Reply-To: References: <1119966153.42c153c912f69@webmail.armbase.com> Message-ID: <1119973417.42c17029e69a5@webmail.armbase.com> Quoting "Ralph R. Forehand" : > Problem gone!! I'm finally getting the Revolution home page again. Ahh good, because I misread your post and thought you meant revonline via the IDE. Cheers bob > > Ralph > --------------------------- > >Quoting "Ralph R. Forehand" : > > > > > What's happening??? I've unable to open the Revolution Home Page or > Scripting > > > Conference page the last couple days!! I keep getting "Connection > refused" > > > message. > > > > > > Anyone else having the same problem and/or know what the problem is?? > > > >I cant get access but I've only used my laptop and thought it was a work > >firewall. Obviously it is global (excuse the pun). I'm using rev 2.5 > > > >Cheers > >Bob > > > > > > Thanks in Advance and TAKE CARE, > > > Ralph > > > \ > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > use-revolution mailing list > > > use-revolution at lists.runrev.com > > > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription > > > preferences: > > > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution > > > > > > > > > > > > >_______________________________________________ > >use-revolution mailing list > >use-revolution at lists.runrev.com > >Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription > preferences: > >http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution > > > _______________________________________________ > use-revolution mailing list > use-revolution at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription > preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution > From eric.chatonet at sosmartsoftware.com Tue Jun 28 11:46:50 2005 From: eric.chatonet at sosmartsoftware.com (Eric Chatonet) Date: Tue, 28 Jun 2005 17:46:50 +0200 Subject: Tiger breaks hyperCard? In-Reply-To: References: <20050627203004.0189882493E@mail.runrev.com> Message-ID: Hi Todd and Jim, To be more precise, I was told that you can't install an OS 9.2.2 system folder on any partition where Tiger (or any OS X system) is already installed. It does not work: OS 9 must be installed first or installed on another disk or partition... At the very worst you have to backup, erase your Tiger disk, make an OS 9 clean install (just copying an existing system folder is risky :-) and a Tiger clean install on top :-( Then when you see the hard disk prices at the moment, it might be a better solution to buy an external firewire one... Le 28 juin 05 ? 01:22, Todd Higgins a ?crit : > This is true. New machines do not ship with the Classic System > Folder. But If you have an existing Macintosh you can just copy > the System Folder over. > > Todd > > On Jun 27, 2005, at 6:34 PM, Jim Hurley wrote: > > >> I had heard, from a distance source, that a new Mac with Tiger >> installed will not necessarily include classic. Anybody know >> whether this is true? >> Best Regards from Paris, Eric Chatonet. ---------------------------------------------------------------- So Smart Software For institutions, companies and associations Built-to-order applications: management, multimedia, internet, etc. Windows, Mac OS and Linux... With the French touch Free plugins and tutorials on my website ---------------------------------------------------------------- Web site http://www.sosmartsoftware.com/ Email eric.chatonet at sosmartsoftware.com/ Phone 33 (0)1 43 31 77 62 Mobile 33 (0)6 20 74 50 86 ---------------------------------------------------------------- From mwieder at ahsoftware.net Tue Jun 28 12:16:34 2005 From: mwieder at ahsoftware.net (Mark Wieder) Date: Tue, 28 Jun 2005 09:16:34 -0700 Subject: Confirm Long File Name Bug in Player Object In-Reply-To: <42C0EAFB.4080208@fourthworld.com> References: <1e6.3e998d7a.2ff24430@aol.com> <42C0EAFB.4080208@fourthworld.com> Message-ID: <811837472.20050628091634@ahsoftware.net> Richard- Monday, June 27, 2005, 11:15:23 PM, you wrote: RG> Do you can to clear the header? I figured you were maybe speaking a patois here, so I tried various translations in Google: English to German and back again: Do you preserve, in order to delete the heading? English to Spanish and back again: You can to clear the head? English to French and back again: Do you put out of box to release the heading? English to Italian and back again: Inscatolate in order to eliminate the heading? English to Portuguese and back again: You tin to cancel the heading? English to French to German to English: Do you place in crate to set the title free? The last seems very zen, and I'm sure it's the key to understanding this conundrum. I shall meditate on this. -- -Mark Wieder mwieder at ahsoftware.net From ambassador at fourthworld.com Tue Jun 28 12:17:57 2005 From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin) Date: Tue, 28 Jun 2005 09:17:57 -0700 Subject: koan: how do uninstallers uninstall themselves? Message-ID: <42C17835.9000105@fourthworld.com> When an uninstaller (such as those commonly included with Win installations made with InstallShield or WiseInstall) run, it can copy itself to the user's Temp folder and run from there, so that it can do a complete deletion of the items in the application's folder. But can I delete it from the Temp folder when it's done? In my readings 'round the Net it seems acceptable to just leave the old uninstaller in the Temp folder until the next time the user cleans that folder out, but that doesn't feel proper to me. Is there a way for an app to delete itself? Or to use some delayed mechanism for doing so that doesn't require modifying any system files? TIA - -- Richard Gaskin Fourth World Media Corporation ___________________________________________________________ Ambassador at FourthWorld.com http://www.FourthWorld.com From ambassador at fourthworld.com Tue Jun 28 12:19:53 2005 From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin) Date: Tue, 28 Jun 2005 09:19:53 -0700 Subject: Confirm Long File Name Bug in Player Object In-Reply-To: <811837472.20050628091634@ahsoftware.net> References: <1e6.3e998d7a.2ff24430@aol.com> <42C0EAFB.4080208@fourthworld.com> <811837472.20050628091634@ahsoftware.net> Message-ID: <42C178A9.2000100@fourthworld.com> Mark Wieder wrote: > Richard- > > Monday, June 27, 2005, 11:15:23 PM, you wrote: > > RG> Do you can to clear the header? > > I figured you were maybe speaking a patois here, so I tried various > translations in Google: > > English to German and back again: > Do you preserve, in order to delete the heading? > > English to Spanish and back again: > You can to clear the head? > > English to French and back again: > Do you put out of box to release the heading? > > English to Italian and back again: > Inscatolate in order to eliminate the heading? > > English to Portuguese and back again: > You tin to cancel the heading? > > English to French to German to English: > Do you place in crate to set the title free? > > The last seems very zen, and I'm sure it's the key to understanding > this conundrum. I shall meditate on this. It's a new dialect called Sleep Deprivation. It's easy to become a native speaker: just go without sleep for two days straight and you'll be speaking it like it was your native tongue. :) -- Richard Gaskin Fourth World Media Corporation ___________________________________________________________ Ambassador at FourthWorld.com http://www.FourthWorld.com From davis.phil at comcast.net Tue Jun 28 12:38:48 2005 From: davis.phil at comcast.net (Phil Davis) Date: Tue, 28 Jun 2005 09:38:48 -0700 Subject: koan: how do uninstallers uninstall themselves? In-Reply-To: <42C17835.9000105@fourthworld.com> References: <42C17835.9000105@fourthworld.com> Message-ID: <42C17D18.3060508@comcast.net> On Windows, hmmm... maybe the uninstaller could create a 'delete file xyz' .bat file that runs shortly after the uninstaller closes? But offhand I don't know how to schedule a task on Windows. HTH - Phil Davis Richard Gaskin wrote: > > When an uninstaller (such as those commonly included with Win > installations made with InstallShield or WiseInstall) run, it can copy > itself to the user's Temp folder and run from there, so that it can do a > complete deletion of the items in the application's folder. > > But can I delete it from the Temp folder when it's done? > > In my readings 'round the Net it seems acceptable to just leave the old > uninstaller in the Temp folder until the next time the user cleans that > folder out, but that doesn't feel proper to me. > > Is there a way for an app to delete itself? Or to use some delayed > mechanism for doing so that doesn't require modifying any system files? > > TIA - > From revdan at danshafer.com Tue Jun 28 12:52:29 2005 From: revdan at danshafer.com (Dan Shafer) Date: Tue, 28 Jun 2005 09:52:29 -0700 Subject: Tiger breaks hyperCard? In-Reply-To: References: <20050627203004.0189882493E@mail.runrev.com> Message-ID: <95C6C3F5-7DE8-4462-A22A-F55A34833142@danshafer.com> I can't say what the general case might be, but I *can* report that I merely copied an old System Folder from a Classic install on OS X 10.3 to my Tiger drive after installation and it seems to work fine. I don't use it often and I surely don't push it around much, but it hasn't crashed, broken, complained or otherwise caused a fuss. On Jun 28, 2005, at 8:46 AM, Eric Chatonet wrote: > Hi Todd and Jim, > > To be more precise, I was told that you can't install an OS 9.2.2 > system folder on any partition where Tiger (or any OS X system) is > already installed. > It does not work: OS 9 must be installed first or installed on > another disk or partition... > At the very worst you have to backup, erase your Tiger disk, make > an OS 9 clean install (just copying an existing system folder is > risky :-) and a Tiger clean install on top :-( > Then when you see the hard disk prices at the moment, it might be a > better solution to buy an external firewire one... > > Le 28 juin 05 ? 01:22, Todd Higgins a ?crit : > > > >> This is true. New machines do not ship with the Classic System >> Folder. But If you have an existing Macintosh you can just copy >> the System Folder over. >> >> Todd >> >> On Jun 27, 2005, at 6:34 PM, Jim Hurley wrote: >> >> >> >>> I had heard, from a distance source, that a new Mac with Tiger >>> installed will not necessarily include classic. Anybody know >>> whether this is true? >>> >>> > > Best Regards from Paris, > > Eric Chatonet. > ---------------------------------------------------------------- > So Smart Software > > For institutions, companies and associations > Built-to-order applications: management, multimedia, internet, etc. > Windows, Mac OS and Linux... With the French touch > > Free plugins and tutorials on my website > ---------------------------------------------------------------- > Web site http://www.sosmartsoftware.com/ > Email eric.chatonet at sosmartsoftware.com/ > Phone 33 (0)1 43 31 77 62 > Mobile 33 (0)6 20 74 50 86 > ---------------------------------------------------------------- ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Dan Shafer, Revolution Consultant and Author http://www.shafermedia.com Get my book, "Revolution: Software at the Speed of Thought" From http://www.shafermedia.com/revolutionbooks.html From warren at howsoft.com Tue Jun 28 12:48:00 2005 From: warren at howsoft.com (Bob Warren) Date: Tue, 28 Jun 2005 13:48:00 -0300 Subject: Suggestion for correcting the IDE's script editor References: <105.63c66061.2ff20737@aol.com> <004e01c57ba3$b807c5d0$0201a8c0@john> <8C74A0513F4FEBA-AD8-DDF6@FWM-R34.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <005001c57c02$354880d0$0201a8c0@john> Dear Paul, Thanks for your feedback. The problem with describing a set of very simple manual operations is that when you write the details down, it seems very complicated. We have all had the experience of trying to learn how to operate a new VCR for example using the manual! In fact, my suggestion has absolutely nothing to do with bunches of obscure commands or dubious shortcuts, and you seem to have missed the point of the description completely. It is simply a description of how the editor could be programmed internally, and for anyone who is interested it would be better to see it at work in VB6. But now I have the impression that my description was so poor that it was open to misinterpretation, so if you don't mind I'll post this e-mail to the List so that others can be a bit clearer on what I was trying to suggest. Regards, Bob Warren ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Tuesday, June 28, 2005 11:30 AM Subject: Re: Suggestion for correcting the IDE's script editor Yes, why complicate the script editor with a bunch of obscure commands and dubious "shortcuts"? -----Original Message----- From: Bob Warren To: SimPLsol at aol.com Sent: Tue, 28 Jun 2005 02:38:26 -0300 Subject: Re: Suggestion for correcting the IDE's script editor Sorry Paul, perhaps I am a bit slow (old age), but could you explain what you meant a little more fully? Regards, Bob ----- Original Message ----- From: SimPLsol at aol.com To: warren at howsoft.com Sent: Monday, June 27, 2005 10:51 PM Subject: Re: Suggestion for correcting the IDE's script editor Well, this would certainly get people to read the manual before attempting to use the editor! Paul Looney From hershrev at realtorsgroup.us Tue Jun 28 13:38:08 2005 From: hershrev at realtorsgroup.us (Hershel Fisch) Date: Tue, 28 Jun 2005 13:38:08 -0400 Subject: SQLite external Message-ID: Hi all, can anybody point me to the sqlite external site? Hershel Fisch From eric.chatonet at sosmartsoftware.com Tue Jun 28 13:27:12 2005 From: eric.chatonet at sosmartsoftware.com (Eric Chatonet) Date: Tue, 28 Jun 2005 19:27:12 +0200 Subject: Tiger breaks hyperCard? In-Reply-To: <95C6C3F5-7DE8-4462-A22A-F55A34833142@danshafer.com> References: <20050627203004.0189882493E@mail.runrev.com> <95C6C3F5-7DE8-4462-A22A-F55A34833142@danshafer.com> Message-ID: <68EB109B-8CC1-43BB-81CE-83F737AF94FA@sosmartsoftware.com> Hi Dan, I did not try it myself. This assertion came from authorised Apple Computer France guys I know since many years. So, they may be wrong or too careful :-) Le 28 juin 05 ? 18:52, Dan Shafer a ?crit : > I can't say what the general case might be, but I *can* report that > I merely copied an old System Folder from a Classic install on OS X > 10.3 to my Tiger drive after installation and it seems to work > fine. I don't use it often and I surely don't push it around much, > but it hasn't crashed, broken, complained or otherwise caused a fuss. Best Regards from Paris, Eric Chatonet. ---------------------------------------------------------------- So Smart Software For institutions, companies and associations Built-to-order applications: management, multimedia, internet, etc. Windows, Mac OS and Linux... With the French touch Free plugins and tutorials on my website ---------------------------------------------------------------- Web site http://www.sosmartsoftware.com/ Email eric.chatonet at sosmartsoftware.com/ Phone 33 (0)1 43 31 77 62 Mobile 33 (0)6 20 74 50 86 ---------------------------------------------------------------- From dsc at swcp.com Tue Jun 28 13:54:57 2005 From: dsc at swcp.com (Dar Scott) Date: Tue, 28 Jun 2005 11:54:57 -0600 Subject: "repeat for each" in reverse order ? In-Reply-To: <42C0EC47.EE1AACB5@Club-Internet.fr> References: <8FD6FAA0-0B5C-49B5-9500-4757B63841D4@scarlet.be> <556FEAF8-A687-4671-A803-B85192BBEA87@scarlet.be> <03B17786-9EA7-4E08-946D-561C856A9BBF@writeme.com> <42C0EC47.EE1AACB5@Club-Internet.fr> Message-ID: <67e809709bd5e11a3184f079ac2d0cca@swcp.com> On Jun 28, 2005, at 12:20 AM, jbv wrote: > So here's a short reminder of what I had originally in > mind : I only wanted to know if there was a way to > benefit the speed of "repeat for each item i in myVar" > (or "each line" or "each char"...) while reading items > in reverse order... Looks like I took the word "element" too literally. Note that with sort, you can supply the sorting expression. This allows a wide range of sorting that you cannot get with the addition of a few keywords to repeat. Once you sort, then you can repeat with the fastest method. Dar -- ********************************************** DSC (Dar Scott Consulting & Dar's Lab) http://www.swcp.com/dsc/ Programming and software ********************************************** From dsc at swcp.com Tue Jun 28 13:55:50 2005 From: dsc at swcp.com (Dar Scott) Date: Tue, 28 Jun 2005 11:55:50 -0600 Subject: Confirm Long File Name Bug in Player Object In-Reply-To: References: <7792AF40-54E2-4628-8BFB-665E2621B701@hindu.org> <9369e855808a230642dfecde44fbf1ee@qldlearning.com> <2BA8BDD2-59E2-48C2-9CBE-2FCB99BC2F13@hindu.org> <679e3b449d7c703f2fa47f4814d7ff19@qldlearning.com> <5EAFBABB-D3CD-4E1E-B315-6C78742A5321@hindu.org> <068fc61310d3badce7e94d02aca3d9d2@swcp.com> <0B862B4D-EE2C-430D-A154-F792383758D5@hindu.org> <401381446.20050625085704@ahsoftware.net> <52F65400-20C2-426C-9B3E-72CCF1FA0A44@hindu.org> <10516562445.20050627141743@ahsoftware.net> Message-ID: <4d7b17fba87709a96f1e4e0be80c46ea@swcp.com> Since this seems to have changed, can we get a new subject on this? -- Dar From emilio at ualberta.ca Tue Jun 28 14:03:06 2005 From: emilio at ualberta.ca (Emilio Gagliardi) Date: Tue, 28 Jun 2005 12:03:06 -0600 Subject: called stack does not come to top in standalone Message-ID: Greetings runrev gurus It seems I'm finding lots of little *nuances* lately and I appreciate your patience with my emails. I've been using the following code to open a stack from within a another stack: go to stack /substack as topLevel and the code has worked as expected in development. Namely, the parent "window" is open and visible and when I click a button that calls the above code, a second window opens on top of the parent, which contains the substack. It was working weeks ago sadly and now I tried to put it into the production environment and the behavior didn't work. Furthermore, changing the mode (modal,toplevel,etc.) and decorations does not seem to make any difference. That is in standalone mode, the substack is called, (I know this b/c the backdrop changes) but does not come to the top as it did in development, rather it opens below the parent window. So, if the parent has a title bar I can drag it out of the way and reveal the substack. Can anyone point me in the direction of how to force a stack to the top or why in standalone this is happening? In a related vein, I tried setting the style of the substack to modal (go to stack /substack as modal), thinking it was ideal for forcing the user to complete the task on screen b4 moving on. However, when i did that, my dynamically generated buttons didn't appear! This goes back to a previous problem I addressed in these forums which I solved by copying a hidden button and then pasting it. For some reason, copy&paste does not seem to work in modal mode. Cheers and thank you for your help. Emilio From scott at tactilemedia.com Tue Jun 28 14:08:28 2005 From: scott at tactilemedia.com (Scott Rossi) Date: Tue, 28 Jun 2005 11:08:28 -0700 Subject: koan: how do uninstallers uninstall themselves? In-Reply-To: <42C17835.9000105@fourthworld.com> Message-ID: Recently, Richard Gaskin wrote: > In my readings 'round the Net it seems acceptable to just leave the old > uninstaller in the Temp folder until the next time the user cleans that > folder out, but that doesn't feel proper to me. > > Is there a way for an app to delete itself? Or to use some delayed > mechanism for doing so that doesn't require modifying any system files? I could be wrong but I seem to recall reading the Temp folder is automatically emptied at certain times, presumably when the number of files or filesize reaches a certain threshold. Regards, Scott Rossi Creative Director Tactile Media, Multimedia & Design ----- E: scott at tactilemedia.com W: http://www.tactilemedia.com From see3d at writeme.com Tue Jun 28 14:09:42 2005 From: see3d at writeme.com (Dennis Brown) Date: Tue, 28 Jun 2005 14:09:42 -0400 Subject: [ANN] Property List Table version 4.1 In-Reply-To: References: <22BD69AE-90C9-4D52-B181-81FB45F8764D@writeme.com> <9A41A053-5AD4-494C-BC03-39E5E0DE2CB0@writeme.com> <13352199999.20050528230840@ahsoftware.net> <2DE2E3B3-EDAE-4C9F-8B4F-595A5A1AE048@writeme.com> Message-ID: All, Properties of Objects Version 4.1 is a quick reference guide for both showing which built-in properties are returned by the "properties" property for each type of object and quickly indexing into the Revolution Transcript Dictionary stack to display the definitions. You can download it from my RevOnline user area (see3d). It was pointed out to me that it should contain a help file, so now it has one. V4.1 now includes an about and help screen. I should also point out the the "properties" property does not include every possible property for an object, just the important ones that are required to define the object (i.e., to make a clone). It does not include properties that are extracted or covered other properties (e.g., top is extracted from rectangle). I have toyed with the possibility of making a Properties of Transcript stack that includes every property in the dictionary including globals. It is just a matter of creating the data for the custom property in the stack, but the list of properties is so large that without a way to organize them in meaningful groups, I'm afraid the utility of this simple stack would be lost. Doing all that would be a much larger undertaking. However, Jerry Daniels is doing such great things with his Gadget series of tools, that I am inclined to see how far he takes these ideas for Constellation before doing more on them myself. Dennis From ambassador at fourthworld.com Tue Jun 28 14:18:41 2005 From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin) Date: Tue, 28 Jun 2005 11:18:41 -0700 Subject: Tiger breaks hyperCard? In-Reply-To: <68EB109B-8CC1-43BB-81CE-83F737AF94FA@sosmartsoftware.com> References: <20050627203004.0189882493E@mail.runrev.com> <95C6C3F5-7DE8-4462-A22A-F55A34833142@danshafer.com> <68EB109B-8CC1-43BB-81CE-83F737AF94FA@sosmartsoftware.com> Message-ID: <42C19481.30703@fourthworld.com> Eric Chatonet wrote: > This assertion came from authorised Apple Computer France guys A little industry humor: Q: What's the difference between a used car salesman and a computer salesman? A: The car salesman knows when he's lying. :) -- Richard Gaskin Fourth World Media Corporation ___________________________________________________________ Ambassador at FourthWorld.com http://www.FourthWorld.com From chipp at chipp.com Tue Jun 28 14:38:13 2005 From: chipp at chipp.com (Chipp Walters) Date: Tue, 28 Jun 2005 13:38:13 -0500 Subject: SQLite external In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <42C19915.6020508@chipp.com> http://www.altuit.com/webs/altuit2/altSQLiteCover/default.htm Hi Hershel, FYI, The sale's supposed to be over, but I'll let it go one more day. It's off tomorrow. best, Chipp Hershel Fisch wrote: > Hi all, can anybody point me to the sqlite external site? > Hershel Fisch > > _______________________________________________ > use-revolution mailing list > use-revolution at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution > > > From warren at howsoft.com Tue Jun 28 14:39:16 2005 From: warren at howsoft.com (Bob Warren) Date: Tue, 28 Jun 2005 15:39:16 -0300 Subject: Suggestion for correcting the IDE's script editor Message-ID: <00ae01c57c11$0dbff7a0$0201a8c0@john> Dear All, My original e-mail suggesting how the Rev editor could be reviewed is obviously open to misinterpretation, so I think a summary of a few points would help. 1. Obviously, debugging the existing Rev editor is important. It gets confused far too often. 2. It could well be simplified by not attempting to analyse the content of what is being typed (with the exception of the beginning and end of a new handler). 3. Though I am no great fan of Microsoft, their VB6 editor is good enough to be imitated, and it works perfectly. 4. The main functioning of the VB6 editor is that lines created above or below an existing line adopt the same indentation initially. Such indentation can be changed immediately without any trouble. The keys mentioned in my previous e-mail simply refer to the common keys used for navigation in any text editor. I think I made the mistake of trying to provide a summary spec for a VB6-type editor in Rev instead of just saying, "Go and look at VB6 and do something like that". From chipp at chipp.com Tue Jun 28 14:55:42 2005 From: chipp at chipp.com (Chipp Walters) Date: Tue, 28 Jun 2005 13:55:42 -0500 Subject: Suggestion for correcting the IDE's script editor In-Reply-To: <00ae01c57c11$0dbff7a0$0201a8c0@john> References: <00ae01c57c11$0dbff7a0$0201a8c0@john> Message-ID: <42C19D2E.8040904@chipp.com> Hi Bob, Thanks for your thoughts. As one who used to use the VBscript editor, I can offer these observations: 1) Ever since HyperCard first was released, the script editor 'auto-formatted' the scripts. Users are used to this. In fact, when I first started using VBscript, I saw where the code editor didn't do this. I know one can manually do it, but it's a lot easier for most of us to be able to check our repeat/if then/switch statement by just looking to see if they are properly indented. Removing auto-formatting is probably something neither RR nor most of the users want. Though it may be possible to 'turn it off.' 2) I agree, there are some 'issues' with the way things are 'live formatted', but a quick touch of the 'tab' key should autoformat the code you're working on. Most of us use the tabkey religiously to help formatting. 3) Jerry Daniels script editor 'Constellation' www.daniels-mara.com has many of the features you may be looking for. You may contact him directly to find out. best, Chipp From jbondy at sover.net Tue Jun 28 15:40:01 2005 From: jbondy at sover.net (Jon) Date: Tue, 28 Jun 2005 15:40:01 -0400 Subject: Suggestion for correcting the IDE's script editor In-Reply-To: <005001c57c02$354880d0$0201a8c0@john> References: <105.63c66061.2ff20737@aol.com> <004e01c57ba3$b807c5d0$0201a8c0@john> <8C74A0513F4FEBA-AD8-DDF6@FWM-R34.sysops.aol.com> <005001c57c02$354880d0$0201a8c0@john> Message-ID: <42C1A791.5060405@sover.net> I agree with Bob. The editor that comes with Delphi has worked correctly for years and years, and functions more or less as he described the VB editor to work. There is no reason why we should have to work with an editor with the current set of bugs. Jon Bob Warren wrote: >Dear Paul, > >Thanks for your feedback. The problem with describing a set of very simple >manual operations is that when you write the details down, it seems very >complicated. We have all had the experience of trying to learn how to >operate a new VCR for example using the manual! In fact, my suggestion has >absolutely nothing to do with bunches of obscure commands or dubious >shortcuts, and you seem to have missed the point of the description >completely. It is simply a description of how the editor could be >programmed internally, and for anyone who is interested it would be better >to see it at work in VB6. > >But now I have the impression that my description was so poor that it was >open to misinterpretation, so if you don't mind I'll post this e-mail to the >List so that others can be a bit clearer on what I was trying to suggest. > >Regards, >Bob Warren > > >----- Original Message ----- >From: >To: >Sent: Tuesday, June 28, 2005 11:30 AM >Subject: Re: Suggestion for correcting the IDE's script editor > > >Yes, why complicate the script editor with a bunch of obscure commands >and dubious "shortcuts"? > > -----Original Message----- > From: Bob Warren > To: SimPLsol at aol.com > Sent: Tue, 28 Jun 2005 02:38:26 -0300 > Subject: Re: Suggestion for correcting the IDE's script editor > > Sorry Paul, perhaps I am a bit slow (old age), but could you explain >what you meant a little more fully? > > Regards, > Bob > ----- Original Message ----- > From: SimPLsol at aol.com > To: warren at howsoft.com > Sent: Monday, June 27, 2005 10:51 PM > Subject: Re: Suggestion for correcting the IDE's script editor > > > Well, this would certainly get people to read the manual before >attempting to use the editor! > Paul Looney > > > > > > >_______________________________________________ >use-revolution mailing list >use-revolution at lists.runrev.com >Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: >http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution > > > > From SimPLsol at aol.com Tue Jun 28 15:46:35 2005 From: SimPLsol at aol.com (SimPLsol at aol.com) Date: Tue, 28 Jun 2005 15:46:35 EDT Subject: Suggestion for correcting the IDE's script editor Message-ID: Jon, There are actually two issues here: 1. I agree that there are significant bugs in the debugger/script editor/variable watcher; these should be fixed. 2. I disagree with changes to the interface of the script editor. It works quickly and intuitively. Paul Looney From howard.bornstein at gmail.com Tue Jun 28 15:50:27 2005 From: howard.bornstein at gmail.com (Howard Bornstein) Date: Tue, 28 Jun 2005 15:50:27 -0400 Subject: Note to self: ALWAYS apply script changes In-Reply-To: <200506272139.j5RLdfId028720@ms-smtp-02.rdc-nyc.rr.com> References: <200506272139.j5RLdfId028720@ms-smtp-02.rdc-nyc.rr.com> Message-ID: <3f07cc2605062812501d44a1c7@mail.gmail.com> On 6/27/05, Ron Noice wrote: > I've run into a problem in 2.6 that caused me to lose everything since the= > previous save. Twice! Which just goes to show ya -- it takes repetition to= > teach an old dog new tricks. Very likely I'm the only twit who would= > actually follow the sequence of events I'll outline here, but just in case= > someone else does, don't! The end result is that I get myself into a= > position where I try to Save but instead, Rev immediately quits without= > saving anything. Don't know if this can be classed as a bug or just as= > something stupid not to do. But the problem can be reproduced with the= > following clever steps (BTW, I'm using Windows XP - which should have been= > punishment enough - and Rev 2.6): Ron, Since you've found a repeatable recipe, it would be a good idea to Bugzilla this. -- Regards, Howard Bornstein ----------------------- www.designeq.com From jbondy at sover.net Tue Jun 28 16:08:44 2005 From: jbondy at sover.net (Jon) Date: Tue, 28 Jun 2005 16:08:44 -0400 Subject: Suggestion for correcting the IDE's script editor In-Reply-To: <42C19D2E.8040904@chipp.com> References: <00ae01c57c11$0dbff7a0$0201a8c0@john> <42C19D2E.8040904@chipp.com> Message-ID: <42C1AE4C.5030701@sover.net> Chipp: See comments embedded below Chipp Walters wrote: > Hi Bob, > > Thanks for your thoughts. As one who used to use the VBscript editor, > I can offer these observations: > > 1) Ever since HyperCard first was released, the script editor > 'auto-formatted' the scripts. Users are used to this. In fact, when I > first started using VBscript, I saw where the code editor didn't do > this. I know one can manually do it, but it's a lot easier for most of > us to be able to check our repeat/if then/switch statement by just > looking to see if they are properly indented. Removing auto-formatting > is probably something neither RR nor most of the users want. Though it > may be possible to 'turn it off.' I would LOVE it if the editor auto-formatted, but it does not. It makes horrid mistakes, all of the time. Try to copy a line, and you automatically get part of the next line. You have to manually reformat any time you do an edit. Unless you are using a different editor than I am, I can see NO WAY you would be satisfied with the current auto-indent behavior. > 2) I agree, there are some 'issues' with the way things are 'live > formatted', but a quick touch of the 'tab' key should autoformat the > code you're working on. Most of us use the tabkey religiously to help > formatting. Ahah! The Tab key. Who would have thought of trying that?!? ARRRggggh. Too bad you've not used the VB and Delphi editors: You can have the best of both worlds if the editor behaved better in manual mode, and still allowed you to auto-format at the push of a key. > 3) Jerry Daniels script editor 'Constellation' www.daniels-mara.com > has many of the features you may be looking for. You may contact him > directly to find out. While we're editor bashing, I sure wish there was a way to do searches using function keys. Using the mouse all of the time is hugely slower than using other program development editors under Windows From jbondy at sover.net Tue Jun 28 16:11:18 2005 From: jbondy at sover.net (Jon) Date: Tue, 28 Jun 2005 16:11:18 -0400 Subject: Suggestion for correcting the IDE's script editor In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <42C1AEE6.8060504@sover.net> Paul: Total disagreement. The manual auto-indent features (that work while entering text, not the feature that re-formats an entire handler) are horribly buggy, when compared with the VB and Delphi editors. The UI for the editor does not need to change: it can remain "quick and intuitive". It just has to be FIXED so that it actually WORKS. Jon SimPLsol at aol.com wrote: >Jon, > There are actually two issues here: >1. I agree that there are significant bugs in the debugger/script >editor/variable watcher; these should be fixed. >2. I disagree with changes to the interface of the script editor. It works >quickly and intuitively. >Paul Looney >_______________________________________________ >use-revolution mailing list >use-revolution at lists.runrev.com >Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: >http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution > > > > From YourSignup at Yahoo.com Tue Jun 28 16:22:41 2005 From: YourSignup at Yahoo.com (Jim Bufalini) Date: Tue, 28 Jun 2005 10:22:41 -1000 Subject: File forward/ back\ slashes Message-ID: This is a resend... Don't think the first one went through. Maybe this is a known issue, but just in case... On WinXP, Rev 2.51, if you do an "if there is a file c:/somedirectory/somefile then..." it returns false, even if the file does exist. Change it to "if there is a file c:\somedirectory\somefile then..." you get a correct result. Yet, it appears, all the other file commands such as rename file, delete file, etc. expect and work with the forward slash notation. Jim From YourSignup at Yahoo.com Tue Jun 28 16:22:42 2005 From: YourSignup at Yahoo.com (Jim Bufalini) Date: Tue, 28 Jun 2005 10:22:42 -1000 Subject: Large stack size - One cause? Message-ID: This is a resend... I don't think the first one went through. I haven't thoroughly tested this yet, but it appears that, if from your main stack, you "go to" another main stack on disk and delete cards on the stack you opened, then copy the same cards back, then save and close, the file size of the newly opened/closed stack increases significantly. Do this many times, and you end up with a huge stack file! Jim From warren at howsoft.com Tue Jun 28 16:27:43 2005 From: warren at howsoft.com (Bob Warren) Date: Tue, 28 Jun 2005 17:27:43 -0300 Subject: Suggestion for correcting the IDE's script editor References: <00ae01c57c11$0dbff7a0$0201a8c0@john> <42C19D2E.8040904@chipp.com> Message-ID: <010201c57c20$575345c0$0201a8c0@john> Dear Chipp, When I made my suggestion, I asked myself a question: "What's better, a simple system that is reliable or a more complex system that often fails?" Just try the example I cited in my first e-mail: 1) Type IF....THEN [enter] 2) Type ENTER again to make a blank line 3) Type END IF e.g. If myVar = 99 then End if ...and then try to insert the middle of the sandwich to make it complete: If myVar = 99 then Do something End if There are many other examples like this. Of course, I have no objection in relation to the principle of auto-formatting, just the practice! I think that what is involved here is the old story that those who have used Rev for a long time have unconsciously learned to avoid its potholes. Less experienced users suffer more. Why shouldn't I be able to do an "if-then" as I described above? I didn't have any trouble at all doing it in the very editor I am using to write this e-mail! You say, "...but a quick touch of the 'tab' key should autoformat the code you're working on". I agree that it should, but the fact is that it often doesn't, or at least not correctly. Another kind soul on the List recommended 'Constellation' to me last night and I have already acquired it. It does not suffer many of the problems that the Rev editor suffers. On the other hand, the question of the Rev script editor is the same as the question of the whole IDE and the Transcript language: I love it all. IF ONLY THEY WOULD DEBUG THE DAMN THING!!! In a certain psychological theory related to motivation at work, money is not described as "motivating". Instead, it is defined as a "hygiene factor". What this means is that other aspects of the job are required to provide motivation, but that money, if insufficient, can be DEmotivating. I see an exact parallel here to the relationship between Rev's "new features" and its bugs. New features (such as the recently-launched "Tiger") may be motivating to some, but hardly to Windows users (a potential majority). One top of that, Windows users do not have sufficient "hygiene" in their situation in the form of debugging which in the opinion of all (except the powers that be) is totally inadequate. For example, as I complained recently to the "powers", how is it possible that something as fundamental and crucial as the declaration of Global variables only half works and has always been the same? It is beyond my comprehension. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Chipp Walters" To: "Bob Warren" ; "How to use Revolution" Sent: Tuesday, June 28, 2005 3:55 PM Subject: Re: Suggestion for correcting the IDE's script editor > Hi Bob, > > Thanks for your thoughts. As one who used to use the VBscript editor, I > can offer these observations: > > 1) Ever since HyperCard first was released, the script editor > 'auto-formatted' the scripts. Users are used to this. In fact, when I > first started using VBscript, I saw where the code editor didn't do > this. I know one can manually do it, but it's a lot easier for most of > us to be able to check our repeat/if then/switch statement by just > looking to see if they are properly indented. Removing auto-formatting > is probably something neither RR nor most of the users want. Though it > may be possible to 'turn it off.' > > 2) I agree, there are some 'issues' with the way things are 'live > formatted', but a quick touch of the 'tab' key should autoformat the > code you're working on. Most of us use the tabkey religiously to help > formatting. > > 3) Jerry Daniels script editor 'Constellation' www.daniels-mara.com has > many of the features you may be looking for. You may contact him > directly to find out. > > best, > > Chipp > > > From ambassador at fourthworld.com Tue Jun 28 16:50:12 2005 From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin) Date: Tue, 28 Jun 2005 13:50:12 -0700 Subject: koan: how do uninstallers uninstall themselves? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <42C1B804.4010807@fourthworld.com> Scott Rossi wrote: > Recently, Richard Gaskin wrote: > > >>In my readings 'round the Net it seems acceptable to just leave the old >>uninstaller in the Temp folder until the next time the user cleans that >>folder out, but that doesn't feel proper to me. >> >>Is there a way for an app to delete itself? Or to use some delayed >>mechanism for doing so that doesn't require modifying any system files? > > > I could be wrong but I seem to recall reading the Temp folder is > automatically emptied at certain times, presumably when the number of files > or filesize reaches a certain threshold. Ah, that sounds logical. I had read about some cases where Win would empty Temp, but never came across the rules for determining when that happens. I've read enough cases where people's Temp folder got pretty big (500+mb), so I'm not sure if the threshold is automatically set, but I'll buy it for now. All I need is a justification for writing my own installer. I love WiseInstall but I need greater automation given the number of installers I make, and a Rev-based solution can let me use the same engine for the installer, the application, and the uninstaller, so the increase in download size would be trivial. As long as it's considered acceptable to leave obsolete apps in Temp I'm quite happy to do so, and excited about the possibility for automating the second-to-last thing in my build process not currently automated. Now on to the last one: How can I script OS X's Disk Utility to automate making DMGs with custom backgrounds, window rects, etc.? -- Richard Gaskin Fourth World Media Corporation __________________________________________________ Rev tools and more: http://www.fourthworld.com/rev From jacque at hyperactivesw.com Tue Jun 28 16:53:00 2005 From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay) Date: Tue, 28 Jun 2005 15:53:00 -0500 Subject: Suggestion for correcting the IDE's script editor In-Reply-To: <010201c57c20$575345c0$0201a8c0@john> References: <00ae01c57c11$0dbff7a0$0201a8c0@john> <42C19D2E.8040904@chipp.com> <010201c57c20$575345c0$0201a8c0@john> Message-ID: <42C1B8AC.2090303@hyperactivesw.com> On 6/28/05 3:27 PM, Bob Warren wrote: > I think > that what is involved here is the old story that those who have used Rev for > a long time have unconsciously learned to avoid its potholes. Less > experienced users suffer more. Why shouldn't I be able to do an "if-then" as > I described above? I didn't have any trouble at all doing it in the very > editor I am using to write this e-mail! You say, "...but a quick touch of > the 'tab' key should autoformat the code you're working on". I agree that it > should, but the fact is that it often doesn't, or at least not correctly. I suppose I'm one of those old hands who takes things for granted, but I don't know any xtalk editor that formats scripts differently than Rev, and actually, Rev does more auto-formatting than the others. I am very used to unaligned scripts until I hit the tab key; that's been the standard in all xtalks for almost 20 years. Of course, I know that doesn't help newcomers who aren't used to it and I am not brushing off your comments, nor am I saying the current behavior is ideal; if Runtime can improve the editor to accomodate more users, of course they should. On the other hand, if RR were to change the current behavior very much I'd be lost. I have permanent muscle memory for the way it acts now. I did just want to say, though, that I have never seen a problem once the tab key is hit. In the if/then example you gave, typing the tab key formatted the structure correctly (I just tried it.) My standard (ingrained) behavior is to do this: Type: if myvar = 99 then Type: two carriage returns Type: end if Type: up arrow (to get to the blank line Type: tab All formatted. Then I enter the middle section of the handler. I have been looking at Constellation and I find it quite remarkable. I think it is a good alternative for those who want a change from the standard Rev editor. At least we have options. ;) -- Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com From lists at mangomultimedia.com Tue Jun 28 17:09:05 2005 From: lists at mangomultimedia.com (Trevor DeVore) Date: Tue, 28 Jun 2005 14:09:05 -0700 Subject: koan: how do uninstallers uninstall themselves? In-Reply-To: <42C1B804.4010807@fourthworld.com> References: <42C1B804.4010807@fourthworld.com> Message-ID: On Jun 28, 2005, at 1:50 PM, Richard Gaskin wrote: > Now on to the last one: How can I script OS X's Disk Utility to > automate making DMGs with custom backgrounds, window rects, etc.? Perhaps FileStorm could help you here. I just browsed the dictionary for it and it seems pretty complete. It does all sorts of fancy things with disk images. -- Trevor DeVore Blue Mango Multimedia trevor at mangomultimedia.com From see3d at writeme.com Tue Jun 28 17:24:36 2005 From: see3d at writeme.com (Dennis Brown) Date: Tue, 28 Jun 2005 17:24:36 -0400 Subject: Suggestion for correcting the IDE's script editor In-Reply-To: <42C1B8AC.2090303@hyperactivesw.com> References: <00ae01c57c11$0dbff7a0$0201a8c0@john> <42C19D2E.8040904@chipp.com> <010201c57c20$575345c0$0201a8c0@john> <42C1B8AC.2090303@hyperactivesw.com> Message-ID: <8767ED05-3857-4375-B048-9488DB35C79C@writeme.com> Jacqueline, I have not seen the script editor mess up the formatting with this simple example, but it does mess up horribly in some situations. I actually have to rewrite my scripts differently because it gets confused at times. The main problem is when you have a situation like this: if a then if b then get c else get d else doSomethingElse end if It generates: if a then if b then get c else get d else doSomethingElse end if I am forced to rewrite my scripts to: if a then if b then get c else get d end if else doSomethingElse end if The Constellation editor gets it right. Dennis On Jun 28, 2005, at 4:53 PM, J. Landman Gay wrote: > On 6/28/05 3:27 PM, Bob Warren wrote: > > >> I think >> that what is involved here is the old story that those who have >> used Rev for >> a long time have unconsciously learned to avoid its potholes. Less >> experienced users suffer more. Why shouldn't I be able to do an >> "if-then" as >> I described above? I didn't have any trouble at all doing it in >> the very >> editor I am using to write this e-mail! You say, "...but a quick >> touch of >> the 'tab' key should autoformat the code you're working on". I >> agree that it >> should, but the fact is that it often doesn't, or at least not >> correctly. >> > > I suppose I'm one of those old hands who takes things for granted, > but I don't know any xtalk editor that formats scripts differently > than Rev, and actually, Rev does more auto-formatting than the others. > > I am very used to unaligned scripts until I hit the tab key; that's > been the standard in all xtalks for almost 20 years. Of course, I > know that doesn't help newcomers who aren't used to it and I am not > brushing off your comments, nor am I saying the current behavior is > ideal; if Runtime can improve the editor to accomodate more users, > of course they should. On the other hand, if RR were to change the > current behavior very much I'd be lost. I have permanent muscle > memory for the way it acts now. > > I did just want to say, though, that I have never seen a problem > once the tab key is hit. In the if/then example you gave, typing > the tab key formatted the structure correctly (I just tried it.) My > standard (ingrained) behavior is to do this: > > Type: if myvar = 99 then > Type: two carriage returns > Type: end if > Type: up arrow (to get to the blank line > Type: tab > > All formatted. Then I enter the middle section of the handler. > > I have been looking at Constellation and I find it quite > remarkable. I think it is a good alternative for those who want a > change from the standard Rev editor. At least we have options. ;) > > -- > Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com > HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com > _______________________________________________ > use-revolution mailing list > use-revolution at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution > From YourSignup at Yahoo.com Tue Jun 28 17:33:50 2005 From: YourSignup at Yahoo.com (Jim Bufalini) Date: Tue, 28 Jun 2005 11:33:50 -1000 Subject: Suggestion for correcting the IDE's script editor In-Reply-To: Message-ID: As a newcomer, I may as well add my 2-cents here. 1. A global (not global variables but across the main stack and sub-stacks or, at least, one stack) find/search/replace function would be extremely useful, given that script can be in objects, cards, libraries, the stack, etc. As a newcomer especially, you suddenly discover a new and better way to do something and want to revisit where you did it another way (I know this violates the first rule of programming "If it works, don't touch it."), but it's the way I learn. But, I can't remember everywhere it is. 2. Debugging is not intuitive. Is there a tutorial on debugging, including how to use the features of the msg box? Variable watching (for example can you watch undeclared local variables?). Also, is it just that I don't know what I'm doing or does that msg box not display array contents? All I get is OK. Jim From YourSignup at Yahoo.com Tue Jun 28 17:53:08 2005 From: YourSignup at Yahoo.com (Jim Bufalini) Date: Tue, 28 Jun 2005 11:53:08 -1000 Subject: Suggestion for correcting the IDE's script editor In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Oh, one more thing. How do you turn on line numbers in the script editor? Jim From SimPLsol at aol.com Tue Jun 28 17:55:11 2005 From: SimPLsol at aol.com (SimPLsol at aol.com) Date: Tue, 28 Jun 2005 17:55:11 EDT Subject: Suggestion for correcting the IDE's script editor Message-ID: <20f.3cc0672.2ff3213f@aol.com> In a message dated 6/28/05 2:25:02 PM, see3d at writeme.com writes: if a then ? ?? if b then get c else get d else ? ?? doSomethingElse end if It generates: if a then ? ?? if b then get c else get d ? ?? else ? ?? doSomethingElse ? ?? end if I get the same response (OS X 10.4.1, Rev 2.5.1) however this formats properly: if a then ? if b then get c else get d else ? ?? doSomethingElse end if We could argue all month about style but, for the benefit of anyone interested, here's how I do it: if [short statement] then [short statement] if [long statement] then [long statement] if [statement] then [multiple statement #1] [multiple statement #2] [additional statements] end if if [statement] then [one or more statements] else [one or more statements] end if Like it or not, it is consistent, it is easy to read, and it formats correctly. Putting "then" under "if", instead of after it, really helps readability with nested repeats - like Dennis' example. Paul Looney From jbondy at sover.net Tue Jun 28 18:17:34 2005 From: jbondy at sover.net (Jon) Date: Tue, 28 Jun 2005 18:17:34 -0400 Subject: Suggestion for correcting the IDE's script editor In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <42C1CC7E.1090902@sover.net> Jim Bufalini wrote: >As a newcomer, I may as well add my 2-cents here. > >1. A global (not global variables but across the main stack and sub-stacks >or, at least, one stack) find/search/replace function would be extremely >useful, given that script can be in objects, cards, libraries, the stack, >etc. > > Total agreement >As a newcomer especially, you suddenly discover a new and better way to do >something and want to revisit where you did it another way (I know this >violates the first rule of programming "If it works, don't touch it."), but >it's the way I learn. But, I can't remember everywhere it is. > >2. Debugging is not intuitive. Is there a tutorial on debugging, including >how to use the features of the msg box? Variable watching (for example can >you watch undeclared local variables?). Also, is it just that I don't know >what I'm doing or does that msg box not display array contents? All I get is >OK. > > Check out Development in the main menu and then Variable Watcher (or something like that). Not all that intuitive, but it does work, and well. :) Jon From jbondy at sover.net Tue Jun 28 18:24:31 2005 From: jbondy at sover.net (Jon) Date: Tue, 28 Jun 2005 18:24:31 -0400 Subject: Suggestion for correcting the IDE's script editor In-Reply-To: <20f.3cc0672.2ff3213f@aol.com> References: <20f.3cc0672.2ff3213f@aol.com> Message-ID: <42C1CE1F.4040007@sover.net> SimPLsol at aol.com wrote: > We could argue all month about style but, for the benefit of anyone > interested, here's how I do it: OK, so, here is how I would like code to be formatted (not that I expect it to change, just FYI). if [short statement] then [short statement] if [long statement] then [long statement] if [statement] then [statements] end if -- note I always line my ENDs up with the internal statements There is a reason for this: if I want to clip the final line out, I can just do a and not have to back up to get rid of the "EN" that was accidentally included. This is one of the annoyances with the current script editor, something that does not happen with the Delphi editor. if [statement] then [statements] else [statements] end if Like it or not, it is consistent and it is easy to read. :) Jon From jbondy at sover.net Tue Jun 28 18:54:46 2005 From: jbondy at sover.net (Jon) Date: Tue, 28 Jun 2005 18:54:46 -0400 Subject: Suggestion for correcting the IDE's script editor In-Reply-To: <42C1B8AC.2090303@hyperactivesw.com> References: <00ae01c57c11$0dbff7a0$0201a8c0@john> <42C19D2E.8040904@chipp.com> <010201c57c20$575345c0$0201a8c0@john> <42C1B8AC.2090303@hyperactivesw.com> Message-ID: <42C1D536.30104@sover.net> J. Landman Gay wrote: > I am very used to unaligned scripts until I hit the tab key; that's > been the standard in all xtalks for almost 20 years. I think the point is that it is technically possible to have editors that provide the auto-format AND also allow one to only rarely have "unaligned scripts". The fact that you are very used to this is more a comment on defects in the editor than it is in the beauty of Rev. And, BTW, I NEVER would have guessed that the key did ANYTHING other than enter characters into the text. This is a great example of a totally bizarre UI that you folks have become so used to that you can't see the strangeness of it. I know I'm coming off as being a bit annoying, but it is frustrating after having used decent tools for years and years to discover the number of buggy areas in Rev that the rest of you seem to take for granted. It is very off-putting to experienced programmers from other platforms. If you want Rev to grow, you might want to take a less parochial attitude about these problem areas. Simply saying "well, we don't mind it, so you shouldn't mind" seems beside the point. Jon From sarahr at genesearch.com.au Tue Jun 28 18:57:03 2005 From: sarahr at genesearch.com.au (Sarah Reichelt) Date: Wed, 29 Jun 2005 08:57:03 +1000 Subject: Suggestion for correcting the IDE's script editor In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <7F909960-5E1B-4FB4-9B22-F83768032C90@genesearch.com.au> > 1. A global (not global variables but across the main stack and sub- > stacks > or, at least, one stack) find/search/replace function would be > extremely > useful, given that script can be in objects, cards, libraries, the > stack, > etc. Find & Replace in the Edit menu allows you to specify where you want to search (card, stack, sub-stacks, folder etc) and what containers you want to search (fields, scripts, properties etc.) HTH, Sarah From sarahr at genesearch.com.au Tue Jun 28 18:58:53 2005 From: sarahr at genesearch.com.au (Sarah Reichelt) Date: Wed, 29 Jun 2005 08:58:53 +1000 Subject: Suggestion for correcting the IDE's script editor In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: > Oh, one more thing. How do you turn on line numbers in the script > editor? > I don;t think you can, but you can go to a specific line. There is a btton in the bottom left corner of the script editor window, just above the Apply button. Clicking this cycles through 3 different states: auto-complete, find & replace or go to line number. Cheers, Sarah From alex at tweedly.net Tue Jun 28 19:02:35 2005 From: alex at tweedly.net (Alex Tweedly) Date: Wed, 29 Jun 2005 00:02:35 +0100 Subject: copy of bounced message In-Reply-To: <42C08DF1.4040405@sover.net> References: <42C08DF1.4040405@sover.net> Message-ID: <42C1D70B.8080704@tweedly.net> Jon wrote: > Alex: > > Thanks for your interest. Rather than bothering the Rev folks, I think you should bother the Rev folks - it's poor for RevOnline to have dangling links to non-available stacks. > just try www.jonbondy.com/jlbimage.rev Are you sure that's the latest version of your stack ? It has a number of errors - resizeStack has a number of incomplete references to the image ( "image" instead of img "image"), some variables are inconsistently used in resizestack (w vs ww, h vs wh, ...), the variable "count" is never increased within the main loop in LinearizeBrightness, ..... -- Alex Tweedly http://www.tweedly.net -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.323 / Virus Database: 267.8.2/29 - Release Date: 27/06/2005 From alex at tweedly.net Tue Jun 28 19:06:50 2005 From: alex at tweedly.net (Alex Tweedly) Date: Wed, 29 Jun 2005 00:06:50 +0100 Subject: Suggestion for correcting the IDE's script editor In-Reply-To: <42C1CE1F.4040007@sover.net> References: <20f.3cc0672.2ff3213f@aol.com> <42C1CE1F.4040007@sover.net> Message-ID: <42C1D80A.3050405@tweedly.net> Jon wrote: > OK, so, here is how I would like code to be formatted (not that I > expect it to change, just FYI). > > if [statement] then > [statements] > end if -- note I always line my ENDs up with the internal statements > > There is a reason for this: if I want to clip the final line out, I > can just do a and not have to back up to get rid > of the "EN" that was accidentally included. This is one of the > annoyances with the current script editor, something that does not > happen with the Delphi editor. > But you still have that problem with the statement before the "else" (and before the end of repeat, switch, case, end of handler, ...); Operating on the whole current line, is common, so I'd like a command to either select whole current line, or to select from to the end of the whitespace on the next line. -- Alex Tweedly http://www.tweedly.net -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.323 / Virus Database: 267.8.2/29 - Release Date: 27/06/2005 From jerry at daniels-mara.com Tue Jun 28 19:08:41 2005 From: jerry at daniels-mara.com (Jerry Daniels) Date: Tue, 28 Jun 2005 18:08:41 -0500 Subject: Note to self: ALWAYS apply script changes In-Reply-To: <3f07cc2605062812501d44a1c7@mail.gmail.com> References: <200506272139.j5RLdfId028720@ms-smtp-02.rdc-nyc.rr.com> <3f07cc2605062812501d44a1c7@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <4a667d4750f5464a0e2e438a32fd341d@daniels-mara.com> Howard, not to hawk my own product, but you can set Constellation Script Editor (www.daniels-mara.com/products/constellation.htm) to auto save and auto archive every so many compiles (appy). Once every 5 compiles for each mainStack you're working on, for instance. You set the frequency. Couldn't resist mentioning it. -JD On Jun 28, 2005, at 2:50 PM, Howard Bornstein wrote: > On 6/27/05, Ron Noice wrote: >> I've run into a problem in 2.6 that caused me to lose everything >> since the= >> previous save. Twice! Which just goes to show ya -- it takes >> repetition to= >> teach an old dog new tricks. Very likely I'm the only twit who would= >> actually follow the sequence of events I'll outline here, but just >> in case= >> someone else does, don't! The end result is that I get myself into a= >> position where I try to Save but instead, Rev immediately quits >> without= >> saving anything. Don't know if this can be classed as a bug or just >> as= >> something stupid not to do. But the problem can be reproduced with >> the= >> following clever steps (BTW, I'm using Windows XP - which should >> have been= >> punishment enough - and Rev 2.6): > > Ron, > > Since you've found a repeatable recipe, it would be a good idea to > Bugzilla this. > > -- > Regards, > > Howard Bornstein > ----------------------- > www.designeq.com > _______________________________________________ > use-revolution mailing list > use-revolution at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution > From jacque at hyperactivesw.com Tue Jun 28 19:20:19 2005 From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay) Date: Tue, 28 Jun 2005 18:20:19 -0500 Subject: Post comand Message-ID: <42C1DB33.4020706@hyperactivesw.com> Devin Asay asked me to post this for him, as he is having trouble sending to the list (I suspect the new IP hasn't propagated to his provider yet.) He can read your responses, so fire away. ========= From Devin: ========= I need to send some data to a php page on a web server, just a short string like "abc2". I've read all I can find on the post command in the documentation, but can't figure out how to format the data so the php script will read it. My stack: contents of fld "uid": "abc2" (I also tried [ name="netid" value="dna3" ] as the value of the field. Sans the [].) the post button script: on mouseUp post urlencode(fld "uid") to url fld "urlText" -- also tried without urlencode set the htmltext of fld "returnedText" to it end mouseUp The result returned makes it obvious that the php script executed, but never received the value "abc2". FWIW, the php script (one I wrote, that works when I hard code everything) uses the $POST_[value name here] format to grab the data. I am a neophyte in php land, but have used this method successfully in the past to pass values from html forms. There are no clear examples of how to do this in the docs, and the list archive at http://lists.runrev.com seems to be offline at the moment. Can anyone point me in the right direction? Devin Devin Asay Humanities Technology and Research Support Center Brigham Young University -- Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com From SimPLsol at aol.com Tue Jun 28 19:30:37 2005 From: SimPLsol at aol.com (SimPLsol at aol.com) Date: Tue, 28 Jun 2005 19:30:37 EDT Subject: Suggestion for correcting the IDE's script editor Message-ID: <194.41c8e491.2ff3379d@aol.com> In a message dated 6/28/05 3:24:45 PM, jbondy at sover.net writes: > > > We could argue all month about style but > As I said "We could argue all month about style " and, knowing this list, we will. Putting "end" in line with the statements is inconsistent with the standard xTalk way of handling handlers: on mouseUp end mouseUp on something end something if something then doWhat else doOther end if And the more nested repeats you have in a handler, the easier it is to read as formatted above -or below: If something then if subCommand then if something2 then subCommand2 else otherCommand2 end if else altCommand end if end if It is very hard to see where nested conditionals end if the "end" is in line with the nested statement: If something then if subCommand then if something2 then subCommand2 else otherCommand2 end if else altCommand end if end if It gets worse with "inline thens": If something then if subCommand then if something2 then subCommand2 else otherCommand2 end if else altCommand end if end if I'm not still sure where that last "end if" goes, should it be indented further (to the "end if" on the line above)? No wonder the editor gets confused trying to align such scripts. Paul Looney From lists at mangomultimedia.com Tue Jun 28 19:30:55 2005 From: lists at mangomultimedia.com (Trevor DeVore) Date: Tue, 28 Jun 2005 16:30:55 -0700 Subject: Post comand In-Reply-To: <42C1DB33.4020706@hyperactivesw.com> References: <42C1DB33.4020706@hyperactivesw.com> Message-ID: On Jun 28, 2005, at 4:20 PM, J. Landman Gay wrote: > I need to send some data to a php page on a web server, just a short > string like "abc2". I've read all I can find on the post command in > the documentation, but can't figure out how to format the data so the > php script will read it. Take a look at libUrlFormData. It shows one way of doing this. -- Trevor DeVore Blue Mango Multimedia trevor at mangomultimedia.com From jbondy at sover.net Tue Jun 28 19:55:45 2005 From: jbondy at sover.net (Jon) Date: Tue, 28 Jun 2005 19:55:45 -0400 Subject: copy of bounced message In-Reply-To: <42C1D70B.8080704@tweedly.net> References: <42C08DF1.4040405@sover.net> <42C1D70B.8080704@tweedly.net> Message-ID: <42C1E381.5010207@sover.net> Alex Tweedly wrote: >> just try www.jonbondy.com/jlbimage.rev > > > Are you sure that's the latest version of your stack ? It has a > number of errors - resizeStack has a number of incomplete references > to the image ( "image" instead of img "image"), some variables are > inconsistently used in resizestack (w vs ww, h vs wh, ...), the > variable "count" is never increased within the main loop in > LinearizeBrightness, ..... Yes, that's it. I gave up on Rev for this application weeks ago, and left it unfinished, there being no point in spending any more time on it. If you just focus on the array speed issue, and see what you can do, that would be very helpful, not only to me, but possibly to others who are also convinced that serious array processing in Rev is too slow. If you can get the arrays to glisten, I can polish the rest of the thing. If the errors prevent you from making further progress, let me know, and I'll work on them until it's decent enough for you to look at. Thanks for the interest! :) Jon From YourSignup at Yahoo.com Tue Jun 28 19:59:39 2005 From: YourSignup at Yahoo.com (Jim Bufalini) Date: Tue, 28 Jun 2005 13:59:39 -1000 Subject: Suggestion for correcting the IDE's script editor In-Reply-To: <7F909960-5E1B-4FB4-9B22-F83768032C90@genesearch.com.au> Message-ID: Thanks Sara! That's good to know. Where are these kinds of features of the Script Editor documented? -Jim -----Original Message----- From: Sarah Reichelt [mailto:sarahr at genesearch.com.au] Sent: Tuesday, June 28, 2005 12:57 PM To: YourSignup at Yahoo.com; How to use Revolution Subject: Re: Suggestion for correcting the IDE's script editor > 1. A global (not global variables but across the main stack and sub- > stacks > or, at least, one stack) find/search/replace function would be > extremely > useful, given that script can be in objects, cards, libraries, the > stack, > etc. Find & Replace in the Edit menu allows you to specify where you want to search (card, stack, sub-stacks, folder etc) and what containers you want to search (fields, scripts, properties etc.) HTH, Sarah From jbondy at sover.net Tue Jun 28 20:00:04 2005 From: jbondy at sover.net (Jon) Date: Tue, 28 Jun 2005 20:00:04 -0400 Subject: Suggestion for correcting the IDE's script editor In-Reply-To: <42C1D80A.3050405@tweedly.net> References: <20f.3cc0672.2ff3213f@aol.com> <42C1CE1F.4040007@sover.net> <42C1D80A.3050405@tweedly.net> Message-ID: <42C1E484.9060904@sover.net> Alex Tweedly wrote: > Jon wrote: > >> OK, so, here is how I would like code to be formatted (not that I >> expect it to change, just FYI). >> >> if [statement] then >> [statements] >> end if -- note I always line my ENDs up with the internal statements >> >> There is a reason for this: if I want to clip the final line out, I >> can just do a and not have to back up to get rid >> of the "EN" that was accidentally included. This is one of the >> annoyances with the current script editor, something that does not >> happen with the Delphi editor. >> > But you still have that problem with the statement before the "else" > (and before the end of repeat, switch, case, end of handler, ...); > Operating on the whole current line, is common, so I'd like a command > to either select whole current line, or to select from > to the end of the whitespace on the next line. You are quite right about the problem with ELSE (I'm used to Pascal where multiple line statements are bracketed by BEGIN/END, and since I indent the END, that "takes care of" that "problem"). I also indent the end of REPEATs, SWITCHES, CASES, etc, so that is not a problem for me (unless I use the auto-format in Rev). One can select the whole current line via , but then you have to make room for the text. I've begun to realize that the ease with which I use Delphi is due significantly to issues other than the editor (my bizarre indentation style, the BEGIN/END syntax, etc). That said, I agree with an earlier statement by someone else that the editor's auto-indent behavior can be improved without making problems for long-time (not to say "older" ) users of the editor. :) Jon From gandalf at doctorTimothyMiller.com Tue Jun 28 20:02:19 2005 From: gandalf at doctorTimothyMiller.com (Timothy Miller) Date: Tue, 28 Jun 2005 17:02:19 -0700 Subject: Arrrgghh -- Find and Replace Message-ID: For reasons I should not disclose, I am accustomed to do a simple "Find-in-fields-in-this-stack" with command-F, rather than command-M followed by keyboard input of 'find "whatever"' Okay, it's not *way* different, but it's a little different. Several times in the last few days, I have typed command-f, the word I want to search for, and return, before I realized that I was unintentionally using the "find and replace" window. A couple of other checkboxes were checked off, in addition to "field text," and the stack was not small. I had time to brew a pot of tea, preheat the oven, and bake a dozen cookies before it was done searching, so I could resume the work I was hurrying to finish on time. :-( (My computer isn't all that fast -- a 466 mhz G4 -- but it isn't normally a slowpoke, either. A conventional find is plenty fast.) It happened to me again a few minutes ago. Okay -- I did it to myself. But really, how hard could it be to add a gosh darned "stop searching" button to the find and replace window??!! Command-period doesn't work. I couldn't get the msg box to come up. I considered command-Q, but it didn't seem like a very good idea. I tried to turn on "suppress messages" but that seemed unresponsive. Maybe there's a trick to stopping the slow find-and-replace. If so, please tell me. If not, is there some good reason this obvious feature is absent? Tim Miller From rjb at robelko.com Tue Jun 28 20:03:47 2005 From: rjb at robelko.com (Robert Brenstein) Date: Wed, 29 Jun 2005 02:03:47 +0200 Subject: Suggestion for correcting the IDE's script editor In-Reply-To: <194.41c8e491.2ff3379d@aol.com> References: <194.41c8e491.2ff3379d@aol.com> Message-ID: > > >> > We could argue all month about style but >> > >As I said "We could argue all month about style " and, knowing this list, we >will. >Putting "end" in line with the statements is inconsistent with the standard >xTalk way of handling handlers: > Well, not much to argue really. In C, there are at least 3 major (as in popular) ways of positioning braces to mark the blocks. So it is quite normal that newcomers to Rev bring their habits and preferences with them. But just like they (I mean you guys) have to get used to xTalk syntax, they (you) will get used to a bit different indenting of blocks and layout of code. Having 'end if' aligned with 'if' and 'else' is quite logical, if one thinks about it. After all, that 'end' ends that block. Braces give a totally different optical effect and C does not require to have each in a separate line. Real bugs in editor are a different story. I wonder whether they are reported in Bugzilla. Newcomers surely are more likely to find some bugs since we the oldtimers learned to use the editor in a 'safe' way over the years. Robert From sarahr at genesearch.com.au Tue Jun 28 20:34:15 2005 From: sarahr at genesearch.com.au (Sarah Reichelt) Date: Wed, 29 Jun 2005 10:34:15 +1000 Subject: Arrrgghh -- Find and Replace In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: > Several times in the last few days, I have typed command-f, the > word I want to search for, and return, before I realized that I was > unintentionally using the "find and replace" window. A couple of > other checkboxes were checked off, in addition to "field text," and > the stack was not small. I had time to brew a pot of tea, preheat > the oven, and bake a dozen cookies before it was done searching, so > I could resume the work I was hurrying to finish on time. :-( (My > computer isn't all that fast -- a 466 mhz G4 -- but it isn't > normally a slowpoke, either. A conventional find is plenty fast.) There is a bug in the Find & Replace when used on fields. Chipp has posted a fix and you can find the details here: It really doesn't take long and normally the Find button becomes a Stop button when searching, but I think in this case, it doesn't even start searching. HTH, Sarah From YourSignup at Yahoo.com Tue Jun 28 20:47:00 2005 From: YourSignup at Yahoo.com (Jim Bufalini) Date: Tue, 28 Jun 2005 14:47:00 -1000 Subject: Arrrgghh -- Find and Replace In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Sara or Chipp, The link to the patch .../2005-February/050697.html is broken. Is there a new link? By the way, that a GREAT search function. I was using the one in the script editor and was having to memorize which scripts to search. Big time and human memory saver! Now if I could just learn the best ways to use the debugging features... Hmmm, what will I do with all the extra time! Jim -----Original Message----- From: use-revolution-bounces at lists.runrev.com [mailto:use-revolution-bounces at lists.runrev.com]On Behalf Of Sarah Reichelt Sent: Tuesday, June 28, 2005 2:34 PM To: How to use Revolution Subject: Re: Arrrgghh -- Find and Replace > Several times in the last few days, I have typed command-f, the > word I want to search for, and return, before I realized that I was > unintentionally using the "find and replace" window. A couple of > other checkboxes were checked off, in addition to "field text," and > the stack was not small. I had time to brew a pot of tea, preheat > the oven, and bake a dozen cookies before it was done searching, so > I could resume the work I was hurrying to finish on time. :-( (My > computer isn't all that fast -- a 466 mhz G4 -- but it isn't > normally a slowpoke, either. A conventional find is plenty fast.) There is a bug in the Find & Replace when used on fields. Chipp has posted a fix and you can find the details here: It really doesn't take long and normally the Find button becomes a Stop button when searching, but I think in this case, it doesn't even start searching. HTH, Sarah _______________________________________________ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution at lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution From soapdog at mac.com Tue Jun 28 21:18:05 2005 From: soapdog at mac.com (Andre Garzia) Date: Tue, 28 Jun 2005 22:18:05 -0300 Subject: about mp3 tags and Rev... Message-ID: <00A36392-2153-4E87-BF26-346F7363175F@mac.com> Does anyone here knows where to find the old Shao Sean libs for reading mp3 metadata? I have a simple podcasting app here that would benefit from that. Or any other way to retrieve the data. Cheers andre From mswindel at santacruz.k12.ca.us Tue Jun 28 21:46:22 2005 From: mswindel at santacruz.k12.ca.us (Mark Swindell) Date: Tue, 28 Jun 2005 18:46:22 -0700 Subject: How to View Rev Scripts Message-ID: How can I view the scripts Rev uses to do what it does? I want to check out the Find and Replace All for example... can I get in to see those scripts or am I locked out? Mark From warren at howsoft.com Tue Jun 28 21:48:29 2005 From: warren at howsoft.com (Bob Warren) Date: Tue, 28 Jun 2005 22:48:29 -0300 Subject: Suggestion for correcting the IDE's script editor Message-ID: <016f01c57c4d$1efbed80$0201a8c0@john> I can sum up a little on what I object to in the script editor by saying that I expect an editor to do what I want it to do, not what IT wants ME to do. Automatic formatting may well be an advantage in a number of respects, but at what cost? What's the good of it if it makes the most simple operations twice as difficult as they would be otherwise? Here is a very simple example of what I am talking about: Here is a line with no indent Here is a line with an indent How do I remove the indent in the 2nd line? In VB, all I have to do is position the cursor before the indented "H" of the 2nd line and then hit BACKSPACE. Alternatively, I can position the cursor at the very beginning of the line before the indent and then hit DELETE repeatedly to remove the 4 blank characters constituting the indent. I would choose the first option, of course. (The advantage of being able to remove single blanks rather chunks of 4 is that I can create indents of only 1 or 2 characters if I want. As I explained previously, if I create a new line above or below a given line, the indentation of the new lines matches that of the original, even when the size of the indentation is non-standard.) In Word, there is no possibility of positioning the cursor at the beginning of the line before the indent. Just like Rev, it gets positioned immediately before the "H". However, if I type BACKSPACE, Word simply removes the indent. But what do I have to do in Revolution? First of all, I find that wherever I try to position the cursor on the LHS of the 2nd line, it ends up positioned after the indent, immediately before the "H". Then I hit BACKSPACE which gives the following result: Here is a line with no indentHere is a line with an indent The cursor is positioned between the 2 sentences. Then, I have to type ENTER to separate the lines: Here is a line with no indent Here is a line with an indent (that has now had its indent removed) How does such eccentric behaviour balance with the advantages of auto-formatting? Summing up on the question of bugs, I suggested that the Rev editor should be simplified merely because whoever programmed it seemed to be biting off more than he could chew, evidenced by the bugs and confusions that still remain in the editor after years of use. If the author is NOT biting off more than he can chew, or if the current Rev team responsible for it are not biting off more than they can chew, then I suggest they PROVE ME WRONG, AND THE SOONER THE BETTER! From ambassador at fourthworld.com Tue Jun 28 21:57:06 2005 From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin) Date: Tue, 28 Jun 2005 18:57:06 -0700 Subject: How to View Rev Scripts In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <42C1FFF2.9040805@fourthworld.com> Mark Swindell wrote: > How can I view the scripts Rev uses to do what it does? I want to > check out the Find and Replace All for example... can I get in to see > those scripts or am I locked out? Nearly everything in the Rev IDE is open for your perusal. You can turn on an option in Prefs to list Rev objects in the App browser. You can get into Rev's frontScripts and backScripts using the Message Box. -- Richard Gaskin Managing Editor, revJournal _______________________________________________________ Rev tips, tutorials and more: http://www.revJournal.com From mswindel at santacruz.k12.ca.us Tue Jun 28 22:17:08 2005 From: mswindel at santacruz.k12.ca.us (Mark Swindell) Date: Tue, 28 Jun 2005 19:17:08 -0700 Subject: How to View Rev Scripts In-Reply-To: <42C1FFF2.9040805@fourthworld.com> References: <42C1FFF2.9040805@fourthworld.com> Message-ID: Perfect. Thank you. Mark On Jun 28, 2005, at 6:57 PM, Richard Gaskin wrote: > Mark Swindell wrote: >> How can I view the scripts Rev uses to do what it does? I want to >> check out the Find and Replace All for example... can I get in to see >> those scripts or am I locked out? > > Nearly everything in the Rev IDE is open for your perusal. You can > turn on an option in Prefs to list Rev objects in the App browser. > You can get into Rev's frontScripts and backScripts using the Message > Box. > > -- > Richard Gaskin > Managing Editor, revJournal > _______________________________________________________ > Rev tips, tutorials and more: http://www.revJournal.com > _______________________________________________ > use-revolution mailing list > use-revolution at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution > From katir at hindu.org Tue Jun 28 22:20:04 2005 From: katir at hindu.org (Sivakatirswami) Date: Tue, 28 Jun 2005 16:20:04 -1000 Subject: resume rev backdrop on top bug? Message-ID: <5FF41FEB-37A4-4482-9D2D-C1C82B907456@hindu.org> OSX: I've been testing mp4 compressions with a rev stack to view multiple movies on the same interface... setting the backdrop to black... to ease distraction.... with QT Pro running on the side... OK so if I activate QT Pro my movie appears on top of the black back drop in the QT player window... my top stack is also still there... visible. Now, if QT is the active app (or any other app.. mail.app... bbedit.. whatever) and I click down on the backdrop, *all* windows disappear.... if I click on QT or mail.app in the dock, the promptly present their windows again as expected. But... if I click on Revolution only the menus and palette stacks appear and the top stack is still invisible unless I go to the window menu. And what is even stranger... if the QT window is visible and the active app, and my top stack is visible also, when I move the mouse to click down on the top stack, it disappears! This I believe has been happening for some time and I'm only now getting the recipe... I would like to use the backdrop more in apps that are distributed publicly, but this behavior would be a serious UI problem. Or, perhaps I'm missing something? Sivakatirswami From katir at hindu.org Tue Jun 28 22:21:41 2005 From: katir at hindu.org (Sivakatirswami) Date: Tue, 28 Jun 2005 16:21:41 -1000 Subject: Long Filename Problem is Ubiquitous Message-ID: <9F824DCB-B19F-405C-82A7-DF93F9E7ACC3@hindu.org> See other thread on long file names for player refs... two days I upped the ante on a stack file name (disk file name) HPI-Daily-Generator_June-23-2005.rev Now, when my managing editor finishes his work and tries to save this, Rev responds that it is unable to create the temp back up file (or something like that) promptly quits with the stack unsaved. Fortunately he had already run the process to send the email to the list and upload our daily news feed...so, we were not burnt... this time... the temp file is there in the finder with some hashed characters toward the end... I deleted that and changed the file name back to "HPI-Generator_Jun-23-05.rev" and now it saves fine. Do I need to bugzilla this or is that part of the earlier bug of Nov 04? (our firewall is down, I won't see bugzilla till tomorrow, office hours) Aloha Sivakatirswami From sarahr at genesearch.com.au Tue Jun 28 22:34:01 2005 From: sarahr at genesearch.com.au (Sarah Reichelt) Date: Wed, 29 Jun 2005 12:34:01 +1000 Subject: Arrrgghh -- Find and Replace In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: It works for me, but you may still be experiencing problems due to the Rev server change. Anyway, here is the direct link. Paste this into your message box and press Enter. go URL "http://www.altuit.com/webs/altuit2/RunRev/altRevSearchFix.rev" Cheers, Sarah On 29/06/2005, at 10:47 AM, Jim Bufalini wrote: > Sara or Chipp, > > The link to the patch .../2005-February/050697.html is broken. Is > there a > new link? By the way, that a GREAT search function. I was using the > one in > the script editor and was having to memorize which scripts to > search. Big > time and human memory saver! Now if I could just learn the best > ways to use > the debugging features... Hmmm, what will I do with all the extra > time! > > Jim > > -----Original Message----- > From: use-revolution-bounces at lists.runrev.com > [mailto:use-revolution-bounces at lists.runrev.com]On Behalf Of Sarah > Reichelt > Sent: Tuesday, June 28, 2005 2:34 PM > To: How to use Revolution > Subject: Re: Arrrgghh -- Find and Replace > > > >> Several times in the last few days, I have typed command-f, the >> word I want to search for, and return, before I realized that I was >> unintentionally using the "find and replace" window. A couple of >> other checkboxes were checked off, in addition to "field text," and >> the stack was not small. I had time to brew a pot of tea, preheat >> the oven, and bake a dozen cookies before it was done searching, so >> I could resume the work I was hurrying to finish on time. :-( (My >> computer isn't all that fast -- a 466 mhz G4 -- but it isn't >> normally a slowpoke, either. A conventional find is plenty fast.) >> > > There is a bug in the Find & Replace when used on fields. Chipp has > posted a fix and you can find the details here: > 050697.html> > > It really doesn't take long and normally the Find button becomes a > Stop button when searching, but I think in this case, it doesn't even > start searching. > > HTH, > Sarah > > _______________________________________________ > use-revolution mailing list > use-revolution at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription > preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution > > > > _______________________________________________ > use-revolution mailing list > use-revolution at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution > > > > From devin_asay at byu.edu Tue Jun 28 14:22:58 2005 From: devin_asay at byu.edu (Devin Asay) Date: Tue, 28 Jun 2005 12:22:58 -0600 Subject: post command example? Message-ID: I need to send some data to a php page on a web server, just a short string like "abc2". I've read all I can find on the post command in the documentation, but can't figure out how to format the data so the php script will read it. My stack: contents of fld "uid": "abc2" (I also tried [ name="netid" value="dna3" ] as the value of the field. Sans the [].) the post button script: on mouseUp post urlencode(fld "uid") to url fld "urlText" -- also tried without urlencode set the htmltext of fld "returnedText" to it end mouseUp The result returned makes it obvious that the php script executed, but never received the value "abc2". FWIW, the php script (one I wrote, that works when I hard code everything) uses the $POST_[value name here] format to grab the data. I am a neophyte in php land, but have used this method successfully in the past to pass values from html forms. There are no clear examples of how to do this in the docs, and the list archive at http://lists.runrev.com seems to be offline at the moment. Can anyone point me in the right direction? Devin Devin Asay Humanities Technology and Research Support Center Brigham Young University From devin_asay at byu.edu Tue Jun 28 12:32:58 2005 From: devin_asay at byu.edu (Devin Asay) Date: Tue, 28 Jun 2005 10:32:58 -0600 Subject: post command example? Message-ID: <5393E7D8-0162-4398-9538-40C3EEA6645A@byu.edu> I need to send some data to a php page on a web server, just a short string like "abc2". I've read all I can find on the post command in the documentation, but can't figure out how to format the data so the php script will read it. My stack: contents of fld "uid": "abc2" (I also tried [ name="netid" value="dna3" ] as the value of the field. Sans the [].) the post button script: on mouseUp post urlencode(fld "uid") to url fld "urlText" -- also tried without urlencode set the htmltext of fld "returnedText" to it end mouseUp The result returned makes it obvious that the php script executed, but never received the value "abc2". FWIW, the php script (one I wrote, that works when I hard code everything) uses the $POST_[value name here] format to grab the data. I am a neophyte in php land, but have used this method successfully in the past to pass values from html forms. There are no clear examples of how to do this in the docs, and the list archive at http://lists.runrev.com seems to be offline at the moment. Can anyone point me in the right direction? Devin Devin Asay Humanities Technology and Research Support Center Brigham Young University From devin_asay at byu.edu Tue Jun 28 16:18:01 2005 From: devin_asay at byu.edu (Devin Asay) Date: Tue, 28 Jun 2005 14:18:01 -0600 Subject: post command example? Message-ID: Sorry if you're getting multiple posts from me. I seem to be having the same problem others are having getting my posts to the list. I have notified support at runrev. DNA ------original message-------- I need to send some data to a php page on a web server, just a short string like "abc2". I've read all I can find on the post command in the documentation, but can't figure out how to format the data so the php script will read it. My stack: contents of fld "uid": "abc2" (I also tried [ name="netid" value="dna3" ] as the value of the field. Sans the [].) the post button script: on mouseUp post urlencode(fld "uid") to url fld "urlText" -- also tried without urlencode set the htmltext of fld "returnedText" to it end mouseUp The result returned makes it obvious that the php script executed, but never received the value "abc2". FWIW, the php script (one I wrote, that works when I hard code everything) uses the $POST_[value name here] format to grab the data. I am a neophyte in php land, but have used this method successfully in the past to pass values from html forms. There are no clear examples of how to do this in the docs, and the list archive at http://lists.runrev.com seems to be offline at the moment. Can anyone point me in the right direction? Devin Devin Asay Humanities Technology and Research Support Center Brigham Young University From dsquance at elkvalley.net Tue Jun 28 23:34:08 2005 From: dsquance at elkvalley.net (David Squance) Date: Tue, 28 Jun 2005 21:34:08 -0600 Subject: Suggestion for correcting the IDE's script editor In-Reply-To: <016f01c57c4d$1efbed80$0201a8c0@john> References: <016f01c57c4d$1efbed80$0201a8c0@john> Message-ID: <42C216B0.6030105@elkvalley.net> I should probably just stay out of this, but a few comments have my dander up. First, distinguish more clearly between bugs and style. To those of you from other backgrounds, x-talk is different. Many of us like it this way. There are more important things for the developers to be doing than adding features from other languages to suit a few migrants. Bob Warren wrote: >In Word, there is no possibility of positioning the cursor at the beginning > > > How you can even think of bringing Word into this discussion is amazing. It's got to be one of the most "let me think for you, you're too stupid" programs ever produced. I'm constantly trying to undo its choices. Much of the discussion reminds me of people who move to a new country and constantly bitch about it, until all around them want to tell them to go back where they came from. Dave From gandalf at doctorTimothyMiller.com Tue Jun 28 23:39:04 2005 From: gandalf at doctorTimothyMiller.com (Timothy Miller) Date: Tue, 28 Jun 2005 20:39:04 -0700 Subject: Arrrgghh -- Find and Replace In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: > >There is a bug in the Find & Replace when used on fields. Chipp has >posted a fix and you can find the details here: > > >It really doesn't take long and normally the Find button becomes a >Stop button when searching, but I think in this case, it doesn't >even start searching. > Hi Sarah, Thanks to you and others on this thread. Do you mean to say that if I click on the "find" button again, it halts the search? I just tried that. I'm on v 2.5.1 of Dreamcard. It doesn't seem to work that way. As a matter of fact, it appears that if I click on the "find" button while the search is in process, it causes "find and replace" to start a new search as soon as it finishes the current one. The painfully long wait is doubled. I don't think I understand the bug you mention. I.e., "...it doesn't really even start searching." As I recall, though I haven't taken notes, the thing does eventually find what it's supposed to find. It's just painfully slow. Maybe it misses some stuff, though. I wouldn't have noticed that. I downloaded the patch. A big Thank You! to the author. It seems to help. I tried the same search with the same checkboxes checked -- field text, name, and script. Find and replace is still pokey, but I didn't have time to bake a batch of cookies. In spite of the welcome patch, "find" in the message box searches all the field text in the stack almost instantaneously. The "find" in the find-and-replace window, searching for field text only, in "this stack" only, takes 100 to 1000 times as long. That just don't seem right. It still seems to me that a "stop searching" button on this window would be a welcome addition, unless it can be made to work so fast that none would be necessary. Is there something I'm not getting? Best regards Tim From chipp at chipp.com Tue Jun 28 23:42:12 2005 From: chipp at chipp.com (Chipp Walters) Date: Tue, 28 Jun 2005 22:42:12 -0500 Subject: Arrrgghh -- Find and Replace In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <42C21894.7050102@chipp.com> Sarah and Jim, I believe the bug has been fixed in the latest version of the IDE. Sarah is correct, the usual Find is VERY VERY fast and shouldn't take much time at all. -Chipp Sarah Reichelt wrote: > It works for me, but you may still be experiencing problems due to the > Rev server change. Anyway, here is the direct link. Paste this into > your message box and press Enter. > > go URL "http://www.altuit.com/webs/altuit2/RunRev/altRevSearchFix.rev" > > Cheers, > Sarah -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.323 / Virus Database: 267.8.5/32 - Release Date: 6/27/2005 From stephenREVOLUTION at barncard.com Tue Jun 28 23:47:43 2005 From: stephenREVOLUTION at barncard.com (Stephen Barncard) Date: Tue, 28 Jun 2005 20:47:43 -0700 Subject: Arrrgghh -- Find and Replace In-Reply-To: <42C21894.7050102@chipp.com> References: <42C21894.7050102@chipp.com> Message-ID: Any downside to the patch if applied to 2.6, as I just did? >Sarah and Jim, > >I believe the bug has been fixed in the latest version of the IDE. >Sarah is correct, the usual Find is VERY VERY fast and shouldn't >take much time at all. > >-Chipp From 3mcgrath at adelphia.net Tue Jun 28 23:52:05 2005 From: 3mcgrath at adelphia.net (Thomas McGrath III) Date: Tue, 28 Jun 2005 23:52:05 -0400 Subject: Suggestion for correcting the IDE's script editor In-Reply-To: <42C1D536.30104@sover.net> References: <00ae01c57c11$0dbff7a0$0201a8c0@john> <42C19D2E.8040904@chipp.com> <010201c57c20$575345c0$0201a8c0@john> <42C1B8AC.2090303@hyperactivesw.com> <42C1D536.30104@sover.net> Message-ID: Actually you sound very annoying and you seem to blatantly want to attack everyone on the list with rude comments. It is getting quite old by now. I for one read the docs and saw that tab forces the formatting. So maybe instead of constantly bitching you should read the docs. tom On Jun 28, 2005, at 6:54 PM, Jon wrote: > I know I'm coming off as being a bit annoying, but it is frustrating > after having used decent tools for years and years to discover the > number of buggy areas in Rev that the rest of you seem to take for > granted. It is very off-putting to experienced programmers from other > platforms. From chipp at chipp.com Tue Jun 28 23:51:10 2005 From: chipp at chipp.com (Chipp Walters) Date: Tue, 28 Jun 2005 22:51:10 -0500 Subject: Suggestion for correcting the IDE's script editor In-Reply-To: <016f01c57c4d$1efbed80$0201a8c0@john> References: <016f01c57c4d$1efbed80$0201a8c0@john> Message-ID: <42C21AAE.3070407@chipp.com> Bob, I understand both you and Jon are frustrated by the indenting of the script editor and it's duly noted. It's difficult to switch paradigms. In a quick search of all the back use-revolution posts, I could only find 6 references to "indent + script + editor" in over 262,000 posts, and none of them shared your individual concerns. Perhaps it's time to make a note in Bugzilla for a feature request and let it go at that. Or, if you're up to it, create you own script editor which indents however you like, or use Trevor's handy BBedit script, then you can use BBedit to format your scripts any way you like. best regards, Chipp -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.323 / Virus Database: 267.8.5/32 - Release Date: 6/27/2005 From chipp at chipp.com Tue Jun 28 23:53:14 2005 From: chipp at chipp.com (Chipp Walters) Date: Tue, 28 Jun 2005 22:53:14 -0500 Subject: Arrrgghh -- Find and Replace In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <42C21B2A.40602@chipp.com> Hi Timothy! Timothy Miller wrote: > In spite of the welcome patch, "find" in the message box searches all > the field text in the stack almost instantaneously. The "find" in the > find-and-replace window, searching for field text only, in "this stack" > only, takes 100 to 1000 times as long. That just don't seem right. > > It still seems to me that a "stop searching" button on this window would > be a welcome addition, unless it can be made to work so fast that none > would be necessary. The reason for no 'stop searching' button, is that typically searches are so fast you don't need to have such a function. In fact, *when working properly*, I've never had more than a couple seconds of searches, even when searching through 50,000 lines of code. best, Chipp -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.323 / Virus Database: 267.8.5/32 - Release Date: 6/27/2005 From mwieder at ahsoftware.net Wed Jun 29 00:06:51 2005 From: mwieder at ahsoftware.net (Mark Wieder) Date: Tue, 28 Jun 2005 21:06:51 -0700 Subject: Arrrgghh -- Find and Replace In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <2544454251.20050628210651@ahsoftware.net> Timothy- Tuesday, June 28, 2005, 8:39:04 PM, you wrote: TM> It still seems to me that a "stop searching" button on this window TM> would be a welcome addition, unless it can be made to work so fast TM> that none would be necessary. TM> Is there something I'm not getting? I can't imagine how you're getting such slow results. Any cookies left? If I'm quick enough I can press command-period and the find stops before the next container. Does that not work for you? I have to be really quick about pressing it, though, because otherwise the search is all done. -- -Mark Wieder mwieder at ahsoftware.net From jacque at hyperactivesw.com Wed Jun 29 00:06:34 2005 From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay) Date: Tue, 28 Jun 2005 23:06:34 -0500 Subject: Suggestion for correcting the IDE's script editor In-Reply-To: <42C1D536.30104@sover.net> References: <00ae01c57c11$0dbff7a0$0201a8c0@john> <42C19D2E.8040904@chipp.com> <010201c57c20$575345c0$0201a8c0@john> <42C1B8AC.2090303@hyperactivesw.com> <42C1D536.30104@sover.net> Message-ID: <42C21E4A.3040206@hyperactivesw.com> On 6/28/05 5:54 PM, Jon wrote: > And, BTW, I NEVER would have guessed that the key did ANYTHING > other than enter characters into the text. This is a great > example of a totally bizarre UI that you folks have become so used to > that you can't see the strangeness of it. Not an excuse, but an explanation: HyperCard started this convention 20 years ago. SuperCard took it up to be compatible and continued it. When MetaCard came along, it too adopted the same tab-key behavior. Revolution continues the long tradition. So, there have been four x-talk IDEs that use this convention spanning many years. And that's why. In Revolution, it is mentioned in the Help menu -> Quick Reference Guides -> Shortcut Reference. I admit this isn't easy to find. -- Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com From jacque at hyperactivesw.com Wed Jun 29 00:08:24 2005 From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay) Date: Tue, 28 Jun 2005 23:08:24 -0500 Subject: Arrrgghh -- Find and Replace In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <42C21EB8.3010004@hyperactivesw.com> On 6/28/05 7:47 PM, Jim Bufalini wrote: > Now if I could just learn the best ways to use > the debugging features... Hmmm, what will I do with all the extra time! We will be having a scripting conference on the debugger, though it is quite a ways into the future (fall, I think). Still, keep an eye out. -- Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com From 3mcgrath at adelphia.net Wed Jun 29 00:11:22 2005 From: 3mcgrath at adelphia.net (Thomas McGrath III) Date: Wed, 29 Jun 2005 00:11:22 -0400 Subject: Suggestion for correcting the IDE's script editor In-Reply-To: <42C21E4A.3040206@hyperactivesw.com> References: <00ae01c57c11$0dbff7a0$0201a8c0@john> <42C19D2E.8040904@chipp.com> <010201c57c20$575345c0$0201a8c0@john> <42C1B8AC.2090303@hyperactivesw.com> <42C1D536.30104@sover.net> <42C21E4A.3040206@hyperactivesw.com> Message-ID: I don't know Jacqueline, I found it right away since I wanted to become proficient with Rev and naturally looked up the shortcuts. tab seemed natural to me coming from SC and HC before that. Tom On Jun 29, 2005, at 12:06 AM, J. Landman Gay wrote: > On 6/28/05 5:54 PM, Jon wrote: > > > And, BTW, I NEVER would have guessed that the key did ANYTHING > > other than enter characters into the text. This is a great > > example of a totally bizarre UI that you folks have become so used to > > that you can't see the strangeness of it. > > Not an excuse, but an explanation: HyperCard started this convention > 20 years ago. SuperCard took it up to be compatible and continued it. > When MetaCard came along, it too adopted the same tab-key behavior. > Revolution continues the long tradition. So, there have been four > x-talk IDEs that use this convention spanning many years. And that's > why. > > In Revolution, it is mentioned in the Help menu -> Quick Reference > Guides -> Shortcut Reference. I admit this isn't easy to find. > > > -- > Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com > HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com > _______________________________________________ > use-revolution mailing list > use-revolution at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution > > Macintosh PowerBook G-4 OSX 10.3.8, OS 9.2.2, 1.25 GHz, 512MB RAM, Rev 2.5 Advanced Media Group Thomas J McGrath III 3mcgrath at adelphia.net From ambassador at fourthworld.com Wed Jun 29 00:17:59 2005 From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin) Date: Tue, 28 Jun 2005 21:17:59 -0700 Subject: Suggestion for correcting the IDE's script editor In-Reply-To: References: <00ae01c57c11$0dbff7a0$0201a8c0@john> <42C19D2E.8040904@chipp.com> <010201c57c20$575345c0$0201a8c0@john> <42C1B8AC.2090303@hyperactivesw.com> <42C1D536.30104@sover.net> <42C21E4A.3040206@hyperactivesw.com> Message-ID: <42C220F7.2040109@fourthworld.com> Thomas McGrath III wrote: > I don't know Jacqueline, I found it right away since I wanted to become > proficient with Rev and naturally looked up the shortcuts. > > tab seemed natural to me coming from SC and HC before that. I've seen tab used for indentint in a lot of editors. In fact, most of 'em. With Rev you get a lot of tabbing with just one keystroke. :) -- Richard Gaskin Fourth World Media Corporation ___________________________________________________________ Ambassador at FourthWorld.com http://www.FourthWorld.com From chipp at chipp.com Wed Jun 29 00:17:55 2005 From: chipp at chipp.com (Chipp Walters) Date: Tue, 28 Jun 2005 23:17:55 -0500 Subject: Arrrgghh -- Find and Replace Message-ID: <42C220F3.5030906@chipp.com> No problem, it's the exact same script fix as the original. You just patched it to be the same as it was. -Chipp Stephen Barncard wrote: > Any downside to the patch if applied to 2.6, as I just did? -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.323 / Virus Database: 267.8.5/32 - Release Date: 6/27/2005 From jacque at hyperactivesw.com Wed Jun 29 00:26:12 2005 From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay) Date: Tue, 28 Jun 2005 23:26:12 -0500 Subject: Properties scripting conference log Message-ID: <42C222E4.2030502@hyperactivesw.com> I forgot to announce that the log for the scripting conference on Properties has been edited and inserted into its conference stack. You can re-download the Properties stack to get the log at: Sorry about the late notice; the server was down over the weekend and then I forgot all about it. -- Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com From 3mcgrath at adelphia.net Wed Jun 29 00:26:14 2005 From: 3mcgrath at adelphia.net (Thomas McGrath III) Date: Wed, 29 Jun 2005 00:26:14 -0400 Subject: Endless ranting and rude insults Message-ID: I for one am getting very annoyed at the constant ranting and raving lately and especially the snide and rude remarks. I try to assume since there are many non-english speaking people or ones with whom english is not their first language on the list that sometimes it might just sound rude but not really be rude because of the language translations. But there are a couple of people that have been just plain rude. Insulting "the whole list" and accusations that 'real programmers would never work this way" or " I am used to decent tools" etc. I am also getting fed up with the references to "better" programs and or languages like Pascal, FORTRAN, VB, Delphi, Java, or Word. If they are so great then I must ask "Why are these people here?" , "Why not just go back to these 'superior' products/languages?" I am trying to learn Transcript and could care less about these other languages. I am trying to become proficient with Transcript not with VB or Delphi. I do mind about how Rev progresses and grows and I for one don't want it influenced by these other languages or programs at all. Instead of saying that we all should change because these people don't like it or are not used to it, I suggest rather that these people learn to adapt to this far superior way of 'simple' coding style instead of wasting so much list space with all this nonsense. Now maybe I am just having a bad day and maybe not, but I think some of this is going too far. Tom Macintosh PowerBook G-4 OSX 10.3.8, OS 9.2.2, 1.25 GHz, 512MB RAM, Rev 2.5 Advanced Media Group Thomas J McGrath III 3mcgrath at adelphia.net From 3mcgrath at adelphia.net Wed Jun 29 00:29:57 2005 From: 3mcgrath at adelphia.net (Thomas McGrath III) Date: Wed, 29 Jun 2005 00:29:57 -0400 Subject: Endless ranting and rude insults In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <392ea0d75f200c66248a6b62f6b9ad17@adelphia.net> I miss Ben. At least he knew that he was rude. Tom On Jun 29, 2005, at 12:26 AM, Thomas McGrath III wrote: > I for one am getting very annoyed at the constant ranting and raving > lately and especially the snide and rude remarks. I try to assume > since there are many non-english speaking people or ones with whom > english is not their first language on the list that sometimes it > might just sound rude but not really be rude because of the language > translations. But there are a couple of people that have been just > plain rude. Insulting "the whole list" and accusations that 'real > programmers would never work this way" or " I am used to decent tools" > etc. > I am also getting fed up with the references to "better" programs and > or languages like Pascal, FORTRAN, VB, Delphi, Java, or Word. If they > are so great then I must ask "Why are these people here?" , "Why not > just go back to these 'superior' products/languages?" > > I am trying to learn Transcript and could care less about these other > languages. I am trying to become proficient with Transcript not with > VB or Delphi. I do mind about how Rev progresses and grows and I for > one don't want it influenced by these other languages or programs at > all. Instead of saying that we all should change because these people > don't like it or are not used to it, I suggest rather that these > people learn to adapt to this far superior way of 'simple' coding > style instead of wasting so much list space with all this nonsense. > > Now maybe I am just having a bad day and maybe not, but I think some > of this is going too far. > > > Tom > > Macintosh PowerBook G-4 OSX 10.3.8, OS 9.2.2, 1.25 GHz, 512MB RAM, Rev > 2.5 > > > Advanced Media Group > Thomas J McGrath III > 3mcgrath at adelphia.net > > > _______________________________________________ > use-revolution mailing list > use-revolution at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution > > Thomas J. McGrath III SCS 1000 Killarney Dr. Pittsburgh, PA 15234 412-885-8541 From 3mcgrath at adelphia.net Wed Jun 29 00:32:39 2005 From: 3mcgrath at adelphia.net (Thomas McGrath III) Date: Wed, 29 Jun 2005 00:32:39 -0400 Subject: Ignore my last posts Message-ID: <4f3f88f3ef87f002a8129b352a5fa004@adelphia.net> Please ignore my last post. My allergy medicine hasn't kicked in yet and I have been sneezing for 3 hours and I just got really annoyed. Sorry to any that may be offended by the post. Thanks Tom Macintosh PowerBook G-4 OSX 10.3.8, OS 9.2.2, 1.25 GHz, 512MB RAM, Rev 2.5 Advanced Media Group Thomas J McGrath III 3mcgrath at adelphia.net From soctt at proherp.com Wed Jun 29 00:47:55 2005 From: soctt at proherp.com (Scott Kane) Date: Wed, 29 Jun 2005 14:47:55 +1000 Subject: Endless ranting and rude insults In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <000701c57c65$bdf2e340$8529d9cb@sn2379777209> Thomas, > Now maybe I am just having a bad day and maybe not, > but I think some of this is going too far. I agree with you. I'm evaluating Rev (and am very pleased so far) and am coming from a Delphi background (since version 1 beta) as well as C++, Clipper etc. I'd much rather be reading messages that talk about issues people have (i.e. trying to find out how Rev does it) or some examples of cool stacks (as some people are posting) rather than read about somebodies refusal to do things the Rev way. I guarantee if people using Rev went to the Borland newsgroups and demanded x-code there's be a whole bunch of laughter - and so it should be with others coming to Rev. Rev developers are very tolerant of this kind of thing and I wouldn't blame them if they were less so. Kind Regards, Scott Kane From ambassador at fourthworld.com Wed Jun 29 00:53:49 2005 From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin) Date: Tue, 28 Jun 2005 21:53:49 -0700 Subject: Endless ranting and rude insults In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <42C2295D.7020508@fourthworld.com> Thomas McGrath III wrote: > I for one am getting very annoyed at the constant ranting and raving > lately and especially the snide and rude remarks. I try to assume since > there are many non-english speaking people or ones with whom english is > not their first language on the list that sometimes it might just sound > rude but not really be rude because of the language translations. But > there are a couple of people that have been just plain rude. Insulting > "the whole list" and accusations that 'real programmers would never work > this way" or " I am used to decent tools" etc. ... > Now maybe I am just having a bad day and maybe not, but I think some of > this is going too far. Yeah, written like a typical person who doesn't program in Assembler. ;) Thanks for the reminder of basic manners. A lot of people from a wide range of programming backgrounds have learned Rev easily with the help of the folks here. But pissing in someone's Wheaties rarely engenders warm fuzzy feelings of helpfulness. Now if you'll excuse me I'm due at a cocktail party where I'm looking forward to spend the evening insulting the hostess and bitching about the hors d'oeuvres.... -- Richard Gaskin Managing Editor, revJournal _______________________________________________________ Rev tips, tutorials and more: http://www.revJournal.com From 3mcgrath at adelphia.net Wed Jun 29 01:00:34 2005 From: 3mcgrath at adelphia.net (Thomas McGrath III) Date: Wed, 29 Jun 2005 01:00:34 -0400 Subject: Endless ranting and rude insults In-Reply-To: <42C2295D.7020508@fourthworld.com> References: <42C2295D.7020508@fourthworld.com> Message-ID: Richard, Yeah, I'm laughing now, and I never complain about my food at restaurants since I have heard too many bad stories of what happens to that food before it gets back to me. Thanks for the light hearted take on this. I'm off to bed since the meds don't seem to be working at all. Yours, Tom On Jun 29, 2005, at 12:53 AM, Richard Gaskin wrote: > Thomas McGrath III wrote: >> I for one am getting very annoyed at the constant ranting and raving >> lately and especially the snide and rude remarks. I try to assume >> since there are many non-english speaking people or ones with whom >> english is not their first language on the list that sometimes it >> might just sound rude but not really be rude because of the language >> translations. But there are a couple of people that have been just >> plain rude. Insulting "the whole list" and accusations that 'real >> programmers would never work this way" or " I am used to decent >> tools" etc. > ... >> Now maybe I am just having a bad day and maybe not, but I think some >> of this is going too far. > > Yeah, written like a typical person who doesn't program in Assembler. > > ;) > > Thanks for the reminder of basic manners. A lot of people from a wide > range of programming backgrounds have learned Rev easily with the help > of the folks here. But pissing in someone's Wheaties rarely engenders > warm fuzzy feelings of helpfulness. > > Now if you'll excuse me I'm due at a cocktail party where I'm looking > forward to spend the evening insulting the hostess and bitching about > the hors d'oeuvres.... > > -- > Richard Gaskin > Managing Editor, revJournal > _______________________________________________________ > Rev tips, tutorials and more: http://www.revJournal.com > _______________________________________________ > use-revolution mailing list > use-revolution at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution > > Thomas J. McGrath III SCS 1000 Killarney Dr. Pittsburgh, PA 15234 412-885-8541 From revolution at jaedworks.com Wed Jun 29 01:04:03 2005 From: revolution at jaedworks.com (Jeanne A. E. DeVoto) Date: Tue, 28 Jun 2005 22:04:03 -0700 Subject: Suggestion for correcting the IDE's script editor In-Reply-To: <42C21AAE.3070407@chipp.com> References: <016f01c57c4d$1efbed80$0201a8c0@john> <42C21AAE.3070407@chipp.com> Message-ID: At 10:51 PM -0500 6/28/2005, Chipp Walters wrote: >In a quick search of all the back use-revolution posts, I could only >find 6 references to "indent + script + editor" in over 262,000 >posts, and none of them shared your individual concerns. Perhaps >it's time to make a note in Bugzilla for a feature request and let >it go at that. > >Or, if you're up to it, create you own script editor which indents >however you like, or use Trevor's handy BBedit script, then you can >use BBedit to format your scripts any way you like. Or turn off the auto-format feature, for heaven's sake. It's not as though it were difficult, if you want to manually format scripts to your liking. -- jeanne a. e. devoto ~ revolution at jaedworks.com http://www.jaedworks.com From 3mcgrath at adelphia.net Wed Jun 29 01:06:12 2005 From: 3mcgrath at adelphia.net (Thomas McGrath III) Date: Wed, 29 Jun 2005 01:06:12 -0400 Subject: Endless ranting and rude insults In-Reply-To: <000701c57c65$bdf2e340$8529d9cb@sn2379777209> References: <000701c57c65$bdf2e340$8529d9cb@sn2379777209> Message-ID: <64bad28db02f2ceb7ccd61ea3a30bc57@adelphia.net> Scott, I too would much rather hear about overcoming issues and creative ways of getting things accomplished. I love the fact that people share their hard won victories and share the stacks so I can really learn from them. What a great list to be a part of. Thanks also for pointing out the positive side of what you and I get from this list. In the end I always seem to get more than I give. Lately my hopes have been to use Rev to pursue my dream of being independent. I would like to get out from under the company I work for although I do enjoy a lot of the work I do for them. The problem is that it is for them. They get rich, I make a living. I would love to use Rev to turn that around. This list has been a driving force in that area. Yours, Tom On Jun 29, 2005, at 12:47 AM, Scott Kane wrote: > > Thomas, > >> Now maybe I am just having a bad day and maybe not, >> but I think some of this is going too far. > > I agree with you. I'm evaluating Rev (and am very > pleased so far) and am coming from a Delphi background > (since version 1 beta) as well as C++, Clipper etc. > I'd much rather be reading messages that talk about > issues people have (i.e. trying to find out how Rev > does it) or some examples of cool stacks (as some people > are posting) rather than read about somebodies refusal > to do things the Rev way. I guarantee if people using > Rev went to the Borland newsgroups and demanded x-code > there's be a whole bunch of laughter - and so it should > be with others coming to Rev. Rev developers are very > tolerant of this kind of thing and I wouldn't blame them > if they were less so. > > Kind Regards, > > Scott Kane > > > _______________________________________________ > use-revolution mailing list > use-revolution at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution > > Macintosh PowerBook G-4 OSX 10.3.8, OS 9.2.2, 1.25 GHz, 512MB RAM, Rev 2.5 Advanced Media Group Thomas J McGrath III 3mcgrath at adelphia.net From chipp at chipp.com Wed Jun 29 01:07:09 2005 From: chipp at chipp.com (Chipp Walters) Date: Wed, 29 Jun 2005 00:07:09 -0500 Subject: Suggestion for correcting the IDE's script editor In-Reply-To: References: <016f01c57c4d$1efbed80$0201a8c0@john> <42C21AAE.3070407@chipp.com> Message-ID: <42C22C7D.8070102@chipp.com> Jeanne A. E. DeVoto wrote: > Or turn off the auto-format feature, for heaven's sake. It's not as > though it were difficult, if you want to manually format scripts to your > liking. Are you kidding me? ROFL!!! Yep, it's right there in the Prefs. aha! -Chipp -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.323 / Virus Database: 267.8.5/32 - Release Date: 6/27/2005 From soctt at proherp.com Wed Jun 29 01:20:09 2005 From: soctt at proherp.com (Scott Kane) Date: Wed, 29 Jun 2005 15:20:09 +1000 Subject: Endless ranting and rude insults In-Reply-To: <64bad28db02f2ceb7ccd61ea3a30bc57@adelphia.net> Message-ID: <000801c57c6a$3ecbac00$8529d9cb@sn2379777209> > I too would much rather hear about > overcoming issues and creative ways of getting things accomplished. I love > the fact that people share their > hard won victories and share the stacks > so I can really learn from > them. What a great list to be a part of. I agree. The Rev community (the developers using Rev) don't take them selves as seriously as other languages - by that I mean they aren't jumping on newbie's and telling them to RTFM. Common with Delphi, C++, Visual Basic etc. > Thanks also for pointing out the positive side of what you and I get > from this list. In the end I always seem to get more than I give. *When* I get the database side if things working the way I want I intend to post the basics for people to use. I am yet to see a big database project in Rev (though I would love to), so I hope to pay back what I've learned by sharing. Could take a while though... :-) > Lately my hopes have been to use Rev to pursue my dream of being > independent. I would like to get out from under the company I work for > although I do enjoy a lot of the work I do for them. The problem is > that it is for them. They get rich, I make a living. I would love to > use Rev to turn that around. This list has been a driving force in that > area. That's an admirable goal. I write software for a living (working for myself) for just on ten years now (worked for ICL and Fujisu as a programmer before that) and intend to reach the next level which is cross-platform development. I'm keen to see Rev achieve that for me. :-) Scott Kane From jperryl at ecs.fullerton.edu Wed Jun 29 01:25:48 2005 From: jperryl at ecs.fullerton.edu (Judy Perry) Date: Tue, 28 Jun 2005 22:25:48 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Endless ranting and rude insults In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Tom, I couldn't agree more! Judy No DOT NOTATION!!!!! It SUX... It's hard.to.read.this:total.utter:crap! From 3mcgrath at adelphia.net Wed Jun 29 01:26:29 2005 From: 3mcgrath at adelphia.net (Thomas McGrath III) Date: Wed, 29 Jun 2005 01:26:29 -0400 Subject: Endless ranting and rude insults In-Reply-To: <000801c57c6a$3ecbac00$8529d9cb@sn2379777209> References: <000801c57c6a$3ecbac00$8529d9cb@sn2379777209> Message-ID: <9aa2c0f1d7d8c7534172d81b799ceeb5@adelphia.net> Scott, I will look forward to seeing that stack. If it does take a while, at least I know I'll still be here. Also, ten years seems a good bit of time to be doing this for yourself. I also am keen on the crossplatform prospects. Especially after years of waiting for Supercard to fulfill thier promise, which they never quite did. All the best of luck to you, Tom On Jun 29, 2005, at 1:20 AM, Scott Kane wrote: > >> I too would much rather hear about >> overcoming issues and creative ways > of getting things accomplished. I love >> the fact that people share their >> hard won victories and share the stacks >> so I can really learn from >> them. What a great list to be a part of. > > I agree. The Rev community (the developers > using Rev) don't take them selves as seriously > as other languages - by that I mean they aren't > jumping on newbie's and telling them to RTFM. Common > with Delphi, C++, Visual Basic etc. > >> Thanks also for pointing out the positive side of what you and I get >> from this list. In the end I always seem to get more than I give. > > *When* I get the database side if things working the way I want > I intend to post the basics for people to use. I am yet to > see a big database project in Rev (though I would love to), so > I hope to pay back what I've learned by sharing. Could take a > while though... :-) > >> Lately my hopes have been to use Rev to pursue my dream of being >> independent. I would like to get out from under the company I work for > >> although I do enjoy a lot of the work I do for them. The problem is >> that it is for them. They get rich, I make a living. I would love to >> use Rev to turn that around. This list has been a driving force in > that >> area. > > That's an admirable goal. I write software for a living (working for > myself) for just on ten years now (worked for ICL and Fujisu as a > programmer > before that) and intend to reach the next level which is cross-platform > development. I'm keen to see Rev achieve that for me. :-) > > Scott Kane > > > _______________________________________________ > use-revolution mailing list > use-revolution at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution > > Kind Regards, Tom Macintosh PowerBook G-4 OSX 10.3.9, OS 9.2.2, 1.25 GHz, 512MB RAM, Rev 2.6 Advanced Media Group Eagle Works Sculpture Semantic Compaction Systems SCIconics, LLC Artist Thomas J McGrath III 3mcgrath at adelphia.net From 3mcgrath at adelphia.net Wed Jun 29 01:28:19 2005 From: 3mcgrath at adelphia.net (Thomas McGrath III) Date: Wed, 29 Jun 2005 01:28:19 -0400 Subject: Endless ranting and rude insults In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Judy, LOL Thanks Tom On Jun 29, 2005, at 1:25 AM, Judy Perry wrote: > > No DOT NOTATION!!!!! It SUX... It's > hard.to.read.this:total.utter:crap! Macintosh PowerBook G-4 OSX 10.3.9, OS 9.2.2, 1.25 GHz, 512MB RAM, Rev 2.6 Advanced Media Group Eagle Works Sculpture Semantic Compaction Systems SCIconics, LLC Artist Thomas J McGrath III 3mcgrath at adelphia.net From soctt at proherp.com Wed Jun 29 01:44:34 2005 From: soctt at proherp.com (Scott Kane) Date: Wed, 29 Jun 2005 15:44:34 +1000 Subject: Endless ranting and rude insults In-Reply-To: <9aa2c0f1d7d8c7534172d81b799ceeb5@adelphia.net> Message-ID: <000901c57c6d$a77b6ad0$8529d9cb@sn2379777209> G'day Tom, > I will look forward to seeing that stack. If it does take a while, at > least I know I'll still be here. I'm still experimenting - but I think I've come up with a solution (for my needs) using Rev stacks as the dB. > Also, ten years seems a good bit of time to be doing this for yourself. > I also am keen on the crossplatform prospects. Especially after years > of waiting for Supercard to fulfill thier promise, which they never > quite did. It was a hard won battle. I started out consulting but ditched that when I discovered a market for a product I wrote - zoos specifically (and hobbyist keepers). > All the best of luck to you, And to you too. :-) Scott From martin at materiaprima.fsnet.co.uk Wed Jun 29 02:59:05 2005 From: martin at materiaprima.fsnet.co.uk (Martin Baxter) Date: Wed, 29 Jun 2005 07:59:05 +0100 Subject: post command example? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <42C246B9.3000103@materiaprima.fsnet.co.uk> Devin Asay wrote: > I need to send some data to a php page on a web server, just a short > string like "abc2". I've read all I can find on the post command in the > documentation, but can't figure out how to format the data so the php > script will read it. > > My stack: > contents of fld "uid": "abc2" > (I also tried [ name="netid" value="dna3" ] as the value of the field. > Sans the [].) > > the post button script: > on mouseUp > post urlencode(fld "uid") to url fld "urlText" -- also tried without > urlencode > set the htmltext of fld "returnedText" to it > end mouseUp > > The result returned makes it obvious that the php script executed, but > never received the value "abc2". > > FWIW, the php script (one I wrote, that works when I hard code > everything) uses the $POST_[value name here] format to grab the data. I > am a neophyte in php land, but have used this method successfully in > the past to pass values from html forms. > > There are no clear examples of how to do this in the docs, and the list > archive at http://lists.runrev.com seems to be offline at the moment. > Can anyone point me in the right direction? > > Devin Hi Devin, Maybe the problem is that you need to use ampersand to delimit the name value pairs rather than space. Here is how I format the data put "any old text." into msgtext put urlencode(msgtext) into msgtext put "username" into tuser put "username=" & tuser & "&message=" & msgtext into data ## note no spaces and the use of ampersand to delimit the ## name value pairs ## tuser is known not to require urlencoding put "http://domain/path/document.php" into phpurl post data to url phpurl HTH Martin Baxter From warren at howsoft.com Wed Jun 29 03:30:07 2005 From: warren at howsoft.com (Bob Warren) Date: Wed, 29 Jun 2005 04:30:07 -0300 Subject: Suggestion for correcting the IDE's script editor Message-ID: <01df01c57c7c$bc4f9c10$0201a8c0@john> Dear David, Please see my answers below, interspersed with your comments. >I should probably just stay out of this, but a few comments have my >dander up. First, distinguish more clearly between bugs and style. Point taken. I think you're right. However, at the moment it is a little difficult to make the distinction, since a few too many bugs obviously exist, and this has been confirmed by old-hands such as yourself and not just relative newcomers. However, the fact that you define something as a question of "style" does not make it arbitrary. A given aspect is either a good idea or a bad idea, and whether it is one or the other is a matter of consensus I would have thought. > To >those of you from other backgrounds, x-talk is different. Many of us >like it this way. I like it too. In fact, I think that Rev has so much in its favour - its philosophy, the Transcript language, even the IDE and (yes!) the script editor - that I feel outraged that anyone can treat it with so little respect that they continue to let it be riddled with bugs. I have been involved with computers since the early 1960s, so perhaps I am a little out of fashion in my attitude towards bugs. In my time, they were things to be exterminated urgently. I never thought of keeping them as pets, adoring them or even selling them! >There are more important things for the developers to >be doing than adding features from other languages to suit a few migrants. I wouldn't change a language to suit a few migrants either. But if a suggested feature, from another language or straight out of someone's head, makes sense within the context of the language under consideration, why not adopt it? I would have thought that the only real consideration is whether the suggestion is practical. Even old hands accept changes when they make the task of programming easier. And not all old hands are entirely uncritical of the tools they use. I would say that there are more important things for the developers to be doing than adding features to their "own" language to suit a few old cronies. Debugging is one of them. >Bob Warren wrote: >>In Word, there is no possibility of positioning the cursor at the beginning The whole paragraph was as follows: "In Word, there is no possibility of positioning the cursor at the beginning of the line before the indent. Just like Rev, it gets positioned immediately before the "H". However, if I type BACKSPACE, Word simply removes the indent." Convention in program design is important. For example, if you have a program open in front of you, what would you say if the File menu was on the right and the Help menu was on the left? Even this little thing would make most people uneasy. No, programming is a kind of universal language and we need to preserve communication with other people by respecting their expectancies. Though I find the individuality of X-Talk refreshing, I wouldn't suggest for one minute that it should use a totally unconventional script editor. In SOME respects, the Rev editor borders on the unconventional, and I don't think this is a good thing. That's all I wanted to point out. >How you can even think of bringing Word into this discussion is >amazing. It's got to be one of the most "let me think for you, you're >too stupid" programs ever produced. I'm constantly trying to undo its >choices. Are you telling me that you react emotionally towards Word just like an impetuous newcomer might react towards the Rev script editor? My very complaint about the Rev script editor is that it tries too much to think for me. >Much of the discussion reminds me of people who move to a new country >and constantly bitch about it, until all around them want to tell them >to go back where they came from. The psychology of migration is interesting. I know this because more than 30 years ago I moved from London to Brazil, entering into an environment controlled by a military regime worse than I imagine existed in communist Russia. "Adaption" does not mean imitating the natives like monkeys or parrots. People who have little or no experience in emigration or even in migration often speak in these terms. This is a vast subject, so I will not discuss it in more detail here. What I will say is that there is a significant difference between "bitching" and constructive criticism. However, I don't mind bitching about Rev's bugs. They've got to go. Bob P.S. Sorry about some of the lines above that have orphaned a few odd words here and there. I need a new editor! >Dave From ambassador at fourthworld.com Wed Jun 29 03:44:22 2005 From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin) Date: Wed, 29 Jun 2005 00:44:22 -0700 Subject: Suggestion for correcting the IDE's script editor In-Reply-To: <01df01c57c7c$bc4f9c10$0201a8c0@john> References: <01df01c57c7c$bc4f9c10$0201a8c0@john> Message-ID: <42C25156.8010609@fourthworld.com> Bob Warren wrote: > P.S. Sorry about some of the lines above that have orphaned a few odd > words here and there. I need a new editor! In its most basic form, a Rev script editor is just a field in a stack. The field is loaded with the script in response to the editScript message (trappable in a frontScript if you want to get the message before the Rev editor does), and the script is just a property saved to the object with the save command ("set the script of to