Unicode (was "Call for Tutorial Topics")

[Ken Ray]

Elizabeth,

First of all, let me say that I thought your description of the trials and
tribulations in working with Unicode really sums up just how difficult it
can be, which is just exacerbated by documentation and list support
problems.

Although you may not be "the only one on this list interested in making it
work", I can tell you that the group of people who need to use Unicode from
RunRev is very small, and so it doesn't get the kind of "hammering" that
something like working with objects does on a day-to-day basis. In fact,
from personal experience, I have been using xTalk languages since HC 1.0
came out, and have been using Metacard/Rev for about 6 years now, and I have
not had a need to do *anything* with Unicode yet... and quite honestly, I
hope you *do* write a tutorial on how to use it because I, for one, am
dreading the day when I'm going to need to use it (which *will* eventually
come).

I think Jeanne's observation about "sounding like you only looked at the
dictionary instead of the How Tos" was partly based on your first comment
about discovering that you needed to set the textFont of the field to
"Osaka,Japanese" and that it wasn't very intuitive. That statement can be
seen in two different lights... in one light it would show that a lot of
struggle happened *before* consulting the other (non-dictionary)
documentation, or in the second light that the (non-dictionary)
documentation hadn't been examined at all. I'm sure the reason for Jeanne's
comment was based on the assumption that if someone was about to use Unicode
for the first time in Rev, they might go directly to the top-level "Search
the Documentation" link, enter "unicode" and discover (after scanning the 34
topics that it returned) the line "How to enter or display Unicode text in a
field", which when clicked immediately tells you about setting the text
font. So I can see why Jeanne would have responded that way. (Jeanne, please
step in and correct me if I'm misinterpreting your actions.)

There has been another thread about the Search the Documentation link not
being immediately noticeable or that it can be confusing when looked at next
to the Filter/Search field in the Transcript Dictionary, but suffice it to
say that the Rev docs are *not* organized with novices in mind, and
regardless of whether Jeanne's interpretations about your struggles with
Unicode were on the mark or not, the fact remains that it is *not* as easy
to use Unicode as one might think, and that a tutorial specifically about
this subject is crying out to be created.

I would like to apologize for your experiences with the list; it is the
exception not the rule that queries to the list are left unanswered - I can
only imagine that since the subject of your three queries (unicode, USB
communications, and the display of pinyin) are somewhat esoteric, so the
number of people who can answer those kinds of questions is quite small.
Again, using me as an example, although I've built dozens of applications
for as many clients, I haven't been exposed to any of the subjects of your
queries, or I would have helped you myself. (However if you want to know
about text parsing, look me up... :-)

I agree with you that there is probably some benefit for a separate list for
novice users, and perhaps RunRev will consider setting one up. In the
meantime, please continue to ask your questions to the list, and know that
the community is there to help you - just realize that the more common your
problems, the faster the response will be. :-)

Regards,

Ken Ray
Sons of Thunder Software
Email: kray at sonsothunder.com
Web Site: http://www.sonsothunder.com/



> -----Original Message-----
> From: use-revolution-bounces at lists.runrev.com 
> [mailto:use-revolution-bounces at lists.runrev.com] On Behalf Of 
> Elizabeth Dalton
> Sent: Sunday, July 11, 2004 1:47 PM
> To: use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> Subject: Re: Unicode (was "Call for Tutorial Topics")
> 
> 
> Jeanne A. E. DeVoto wrote:
> 
>  > It sounds like you looked only at the dictionary instead 
> of the How  > Tos.
> 
> Actually, I searched all documentation, went systematically 
> through the 
> results, then searched this list, before launching on my 
> trial-and-error 
> adventure. I seem to recall reading an earlier post that told me that 
> was the proper way to proceed.
> 
> I appreciate that Unicode is an obscure topic, and I may be 
> the only one 
> on this list interested in making it work, but I have to say 
> I'm really 
> quite amazed at the attitudes that prevail on this list. I'm 
> personally 
> 0 for 3 in my experience with the list at this point: when I 
> asked how 
> to use a USB device I was told to write an external (though USB is 
> supposed to be supported, according to the documentation), 
> when I asked 
> about a pinyin display error, I got no response whatsoever, 
> and now when 
> I've offered to write a tutorial and sample stack to share what I've 
> been able to figure out about a complex and poorly documented topic, 
> I've been told it's my fault that I haven't looked at the existing 
> documentation correctly. It's bad enough when someone new to the 
> product, looking for help, gets this kind of reaction, but 
> when someone 
> OFFERING to help gets pushed away... well, let's just say 
> it's lucky for 
> RunRev Co. that I'll be making my decision on whether or not 
> to purchase 
> a license next week based on the product, not on the user 
> community. I'm 
> sure there are some absolutely wonderful people on this list 
> who go out 
> of their way to help new users, but that hasn't been my experience so 
> far, personally or as an observer.
> 
> Perhaps what we need, instead of or in addition to user docs and a UI 
> intended for novice programmers, is a support list intended 
> for novice 
> programmers.
> 
> Regards,
> 
> Elizabeth Dalton
> 
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