From kray at sonsothunder.com  Sun Feb  1 00:23:42 2004
From: kray at sonsothunder.com (Ken Ray)
Date: Sat, 31 Jan 2004 23:23:42 -0600
Subject: Can't delete option question...
In-Reply-To: <BC42B4F7.24EFA%doug@webcrossing.com>
Message-ID: <058101c3e883$921b7a60$6601a8c0@LightningFlash>

Most likely you're trying to delete the stack that is currently running.
The message box can do it because it is a different stack. You could try
to:

  send "delete stack" && quote & vgName & quote to me in 20 milliseconds

which would give enough time for the rest of the script to run before
the message hit.

Ken Ray
Sons of Thunder Software
Email: kray at sonsothunder.com
Web Site: http://www.sonsothunder.com/ 

> -----Original Message-----
> From: use-revolution-bounces at lists.runrev.com 
> [mailto:use-revolution-bounces at lists.runrev.com] On Behalf Of 
> Doug Lerner
> Sent: Saturday, January 31, 2004 10:52 PM
> To: How to use Revolution
> Subject: Can't delete option question...
> 
> 
> A certain stack is closed and I want to delete it in a 
> script. My code looks
> like:
> 
>     if vgName is not among the lines of the openStacks then
>       if exists(stack vgName) then
>         delete stack vgName
>       end if
>     end if
> 
> This causes a "can't delete object" error when run at the 
> delete stack line.
> 
> But... I can delete that stack in the message box.
> 
> Any ideas why this would be?
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> doug
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com 
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-> revolution
> 



From kray at sonsothunder.com  Sun Feb  1 00:26:45 2004
From: kray at sonsothunder.com (Ken Ray)
Date: Sat, 31 Jan 2004 23:26:45 -0600
Subject: Icons, big "answer" box
In-Reply-To: <3996AE5EBEF964418D80953BDCABFF56A1CEED@ex1.asurite.ad.asu.edu>
Message-ID: <058201c3e883$ff2572f0$6601a8c0@LightningFlash>

> 2. I have made some icons for Windows applications so you see 
> an icon for the application that you can click on (one that 
> isn't the icky default runrev icon. TThe icon I have is a 
> fish, but it has a white square around it. I want it to not 
> be framed in this way. What am I doing wrong? 

Tom, how did you create your icon?

Ken Ray
Sons of Thunder Software
Email: kray at sonsothunder.com
Web Site: http://www.sonsothunder.com/ 



From kray at sonsothunder.com  Sun Feb  1 00:34:00 2004
From: kray at sonsothunder.com (Ken Ray)
Date: Sat, 31 Jan 2004 23:34:00 -0600
Subject: wait with messages...
In-Reply-To: <21943DEB-53C3-11D8-A63C-000A95F078B6@chipp.com>
Message-ID: <058601c3e885$03f6b4a0$6601a8c0@LightningFlash>

Chipp,

I usually use the form:

  wait until <something> with messages

which allows for normal idle-time message processing while Rev waits.
For example, one thing that has been bugged in Bugzilla is that opening
up a popup menu remotely:

  popup (long id of btn "ContextPop" of card 1 of stack "MyStack") at
the mouseLoc

is modal on MacOS (i.e. it waits until you pick something from the menu
before it goes to the next script line), but on Windows, it's not (it
pops up the menu and immediately goes to the next script line).

So to get around it, I have added right after it:

  if the platform is "Win32" then
    wait until the mouse is up with messages
  end if

This causes the script to pause, but allows other things to happen
(pendingMessages get sent, etc.).

HTH,

Ken Ray
Sons of Thunder Software
Email: kray at sonsothunder.com
Web Site: http://www.sonsothunder.com/ 

> -----Original Message-----
> From: use-revolution-bounces at lists.runrev.com 
> [mailto:use-revolution-bounces at lists.runrev.com] On Behalf Of 
> Chipp Walters
> Sent: Saturday, January 31, 2004 1:58 AM
> To: How to use Revolution
> Subject: wait with messages...
> 
> 
> Scott, (and anyone else who)
> 
> I use send "fred" to this cd in 30 milliseconds all the time, but I'm 
> really not sure what
> 
> wait with messages
> and
> wait for messages
> 
> do
> 
> The docs don't explain it very clearly...at least not to me:-(
> 
> Does it:
> 
> wait until any message whatsoever fires and then continue?
> 
>   Which means the RR IDE would fire it as it's sending 
> messages all over 
> the place.
> 
> Can you provide an example where you would use one and not 
> the other or 
> not 'send'?
> 
> tia,
> Chipp
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com 
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-> revolution
> 



From doug at webcrossing.com  Sun Feb  1 00:47:18 2004
From: doug at webcrossing.com (Doug Lerner)
Date: Sun, 01 Feb 2004 14:47:18 +0900
Subject: Can't delete option question...
In-Reply-To: <058101c3e883$921b7a60$6601a8c0@LightningFlash>
Message-ID: <BC42C1F6.24F14%doug@webcrossing.com>

What do you mean by "currently running"? The stack is actually closed. It
doesn't appear in "the openStacks".

It's actually been closed for a while at the time that message is sent.

doug

On 2/1/04 2:23 PM, "Ken Ray" <kray at sonsothunder.com> wrote:

> Most likely you're trying to delete the stack that is currently running.
> The message box can do it because it is a different stack. You could try
> to:
> 
> send "delete stack" && quote & vgName & quote to me in 20 milliseconds
> 
> which would give enough time for the rest of the script to run before
> the message hit.
> 
> Ken Ray
> Sons of Thunder Software
> Email: kray at sonsothunder.com
> Web Site: http://www.sonsothunder.com/
> 
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: use-revolution-bounces at lists.runrev.com
>> [mailto:use-revolution-bounces at lists.runrev.com] On Behalf Of
>> Doug Lerner
>> Sent: Saturday, January 31, 2004 10:52 PM
>> To: How to use Revolution
>> Subject: Can't delete option question...
>> 
>> 
>> A certain stack is closed and I want to delete it in a
>> script. My code looks
>> like:
>> 
>>     if vgName is not among the lines of the openStacks then
>>       if exists(stack vgName) then
>>         delete stack vgName
>>       end if
>>     end if
>> 
>> This causes a "can't delete object" error when run at the
>> delete stack line.
>> 
>> But... I can delete that stack in the message box.
>> 
>> Any ideas why this would be?
>> 
>> Thanks,
>> 
>> doug
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> use-revolution mailing list
>> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-> revolution
>> 
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution


From chipp at chipp.com  Sun Feb  1 01:14:44 2004
From: chipp at chipp.com (Chipp Walters)
Date: Sun, 1 Feb 2004 00:14:44 -0600
Subject: wait with messages...
In-Reply-To: <058601c3e885$03f6b4a0$6601a8c0@LightningFlash>
Message-ID: <GGEOJBEEGFHLDOFIMMPIEEIDFOAA.chipp@chipp.com>

Ken,

Thanks for the explanation.
How would you use:

wait for messages
and
wait with messages

??

Would it be something like:

wait for 4 seconds with messages
?or:

wait for messages
(pauses handler until *any* message is received? and why would I ever use
this?)

I have a feeling there's some great power here, I just want to understand
how to use it!

YIH (yep it helps)

Chipp

> -----Original Message-----
> From: use-revolution-bounces at lists.runrev.com
> [mailto:use-revolution-bounces at lists.runrev.com]On Behalf Of Ken Ray
> Sent: Saturday, January 31, 2004 11:34 PM
> To: 'How to use Revolution'
> Subject: RE: wait with messages...
>
>
> Chipp,
>
> I usually use the form:
>
>   wait until <something> with messages
>
> which allows for normal idle-time message processing while Rev waits.
> For example, one thing that has been bugged in Bugzilla is that opening
> up a popup menu remotely:
>
>   popup (long id of btn "ContextPop" of card 1 of stack "MyStack") at
> the mouseLoc
>
> is modal on MacOS (i.e. it waits until you pick something from the menu
> before it goes to the next script line), but on Windows, it's not (it
> pops up the menu and immediately goes to the next script line).
>
> So to get around it, I have added right after it:
>
>   if the platform is "Win32" then
>     wait until the mouse is up with messages
>   end if
>
> This causes the script to pause, but allows other things to happen
> (pendingMessages get sent, etc.).
>
> HTH,
>
> Ken Ray
> Sons of Thunder Software
> Email: kray at sonsothunder.com
> Web Site: http://www.sonsothunder.com/
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: use-revolution-bounces at lists.runrev.com
> > [mailto:use-revolution-bounces at lists.runrev.com] On Behalf Of
> > Chipp Walters
> > Sent: Saturday, January 31, 2004 1:58 AM
> > To: How to use Revolution
> > Subject: wait with messages...
> >
> >
> > Scott, (and anyone else who)
> >
> > I use send "fred" to this cd in 30 milliseconds all the time, but I'm
> > really not sure what
> >
> > wait with messages
> > and
> > wait for messages
> >
> > do
> >
> > The docs don't explain it very clearly...at least not to me:-(
> >
> > Does it:
> >
> > wait until any message whatsoever fires and then continue?
> >
> >   Which means the RR IDE would fire it as it's sending
> > messages all over
> > the place.
> >
> > Can you provide an example where you would use one and not
> > the other or
> > not 'send'?
> >
> > tia,
> > Chipp
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > use-revolution mailing list
> > use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-> revolution
> >
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>



From shaosean at unitz.ca  Sun Feb  1 01:22:15 2004
From: shaosean at unitz.ca (shaosean at unitz.ca)
Date: Sun, 01 Feb 2004 01:22:15 -0500
Subject: List etiquette suggestion
In-Reply-To: <BC41C403.1C902%bfr@nwlink.com>
References: <15014881588.20040121152441@ahsoftware.net>
	<BC41C403.1C902%bfr@nwlink.com>
Message-ID: <WorldClient-F200402010122.AA22150067@unitz.ca>

i'd prefer if people would turn off their sigs on lists, as well as 
trimming off the added list sig.. sometimes the sigs are bigger than the 
actual message..

-----Original Message-----
> > One thing that would help is if people adhered to the RFC-standard


From kray at sonsothunder.com  Sun Feb  1 02:41:56 2004
From: kray at sonsothunder.com (Ken Ray)
Date: Sun, 1 Feb 2004 01:41:56 -0600
Subject: wait with messages...
In-Reply-To: <GGEOJBEEGFHLDOFIMMPIEEIDFOAA.chipp@chipp.com>
Message-ID: <05a301c3e896$e25e5fc0$6601a8c0@LightningFlash>

> Thanks for the explanation.
> How would you use:
> 
> wait for messages
> and
> wait with messages
> 
> ??
> 
> Would it be something like:
> 
> wait for 4 seconds with messages

Right, allowing processing to continue while it waits.

> wait for messages
>
> (pauses handler until *any* message is received? and why 
> would I ever use
> this?)

I don't know... this one seems a little goofy, but I'm sure there was a
reason to have it developed. :-)

Another one I like is this one:

  global gStatus

  wait until gStatus is "go" with messages

This allows you to stop at a line and wait until a global has been set
to a particular value while other things are going on.


GIH (glad it helps)

Ken



From janschenkel at yahoo.com  Sun Feb  1 03:12:01 2004
From: janschenkel at yahoo.com (Jan Schenkel)
Date: Sun, 1 Feb 2004 00:12:01 -0800 (PST)
Subject: find (and table fields)
In-Reply-To: <l03130301bc423290f5a8@[192.168.1.100]>
Message-ID: <20040201081201.68202.qmail@web60508.mail.yahoo.com>

--- David Squance <squance at elkvalley.net> wrote:
> And while our gurus are thinking about table fields,
> coincidentally, I've
> been trying to find the syntax for getting the
> contents of a cell in a
> table field.  The glossary says a cell is specified
> by its column and row
> numbers (eg: 1,2), but playing with a table and the
> message box, I
> can't 'put' the contents of cell.  Is there simple
> syntax for this?
> Dave
> 

Hi Dave,

As the text is stored in a tab-delimited manner, you
can get at an individual cell quite easily :
--
  set the itemDelimiter to tab
  get item 3 of line 4 of field "Foobar"
--

During a discussion on this list a while ago, the
following script ws developed to allow the easy
setting and getting of individual calls in a table, by
mean of custom properties :
--
getProp uCell[pIndex]
  # this allows you to get the content of a cell

  # extract the row and column from the index param
  put item 1 of pIndex into tRow
  put item 2 of pIndex into tCol
  # now return the data in that cell
  set the itemDelimiter to tab
  return item tCol of line tRow of me
end uCell

setProp uCell[pIndex] pContent
  # this allows you to set the content of a cell

  # extract the row and column from the index param
  put item 1 of pIndex into tRow
  put item 2 of pIndex into tCol
  # now return the data in that cell
  set the itemDelimiter to tab
  put pContent into item tCol of line tRow of me
end uCell
--

If you put the above into the script of the field, you
can get and set the content of individual cells by
calls like :
--
  get the uCell[9,2] of field "Foobar"
  set the uCell[3,4] of field "Foobar" to "Snafu"
--

Hope this helped,

Jan Schenkel.

=====
"As we grow older, we grow both wiser and more foolish at the same time."  (La Rochefoucauld)

__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free web site building tool. Try it!
http://webhosting.yahoo.com/ps/sb/

From opus.species at wanadoo.fr  Sun Feb  1 03:26:44 2004
From: opus.species at wanadoo.fr (opus.species at wanadoo.fr)
Date: Sun, 01 Feb 2004 09:26:44 +0100
Subject: FlashMX and Runtime Revolution (erik hansen)
In-Reply-To: <20040201061525.AB1CC93017C@mail.runrev.com>
References: <20040201061525.AB1CC93017C@mail.runrev.com>
Message-ID: <opr2om2uwn7hj683@smtp.wanadoo.fr>

> <opus.species at wanadoo.fr> wrote:
>
>> You can embedd in revolution a web browser with
>> altbrowser.dll from altuit.
>> Within this box you can display a flash movie.
>
> how many minutes max?
>
> thanks,
>
> Erik Hansen

For me hours...

But in fact i have a flash website made from hundredth of small files (my 
biggest file is 120 kO). I display this flash site within a revolution box.

For me that's much better than displaying ordinary rev fields.

You can also display flash movies through a quicktime player object, but 
you are limited to the version of flash supported by Quicktime.

Displaying through a browser object you are limited to the version of 
flash installed in Internet Explorer. If you upgrade your flash player to 
2004MX, you will play 2004MX !

You can give a test downloading altBrowser.dll from www.altuit.com ; there 
is a rev browser on the site ; open this rev browser and try to play your 
flash movie.

Of course you need in Flash to export your movie in an htmlfile within 
witch the swf file is embedded.

I guess that the only limitation of this solution is a memory one because 
you have to run in the same time revolution + (embedded internet explorer) 
+ flash plugin.
I am sure that on a winXP computer with 128 MO RAM it is ok.
On a win98 computer with 64 MO RAM it works but not very fast.

Regards

Claude Lemmel / Opus species

From janschenkel at yahoo.com  Sun Feb  1 03:29:11 2004
From: janschenkel at yahoo.com (Jan Schenkel)
Date: Sun, 1 Feb 2004 00:29:11 -0800 (PST)
Subject: find
In-Reply-To: <285161A7-546D-11D8-9071-0030654C1E62@realtorsgroup.us>
Message-ID: <20040201082911.58004.qmail@web60509.mail.yahoo.com>

--- hershrev <hershbp at realtorsgroup.us> wrote:
> 
> 
> Hi,
> I'm trying to make a find field search in a Table
> field (according the 
> instructions in the doc.) some how it doesn't work.
> example: I have a closed curser query result list in
> a table field and 
> made a search field to search according the text
> entered it should go 
> to the correct line and select it.
> For some reason it doesn't work (ignore find , is
> off)
> 
> Thanks Hershrev
> 

Hi Herhsrev,

I made a quick test, and it worked for me ; so I guess
something is different between our stacks :-)

My setup :
- field 1 contains the full name of the characters in
the greek alphabet, three per row
- field 2 is where I type my search string
- button 1 has the following script
    on mouseUp
      find field 2 in field 1
      put the foundChunk
    end mouseUp

==> When I type "Delta" in field 2 and click the
button, it displays a square rectangle around the word
"Delta" in the table field, and puts the place where
it found it into the message box.

If you continue to have problems, don't hesitate to
post a sample stack somewhere on the web and notify
the list ; there are plenty of smart people who would
loe to take a look at it :-)

Hope this helped,

Jan Schenkel.

=====
"As we grow older, we grow both wiser and more foolish at the same time."  (La Rochefoucauld)

__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free web site building tool. Try it!
http://webhosting.yahoo.com/ps/sb/

From martin at harbourtown.co.uk  Sun Feb  1 04:27:26 2004
From: martin at harbourtown.co.uk (Martin Baxter)
Date: Sun, 01 Feb 2004 09:27:26 +0000
Subject: wait with messages...
Message-ID: <l03130300bc427e066688@[217.135.7.9]>

Regarding remote popups, I'd like to add the esoteric information that you
need to use this wait with messages conditional in standalones that run
under mac system 7 as well as windows. 68k standalones tested under
emulation on a PPC don't need this, but when run under system 7 they behave
the same as windows.

There is another subtle platform difference I've found with remote popups,
which is that if the traversalon of the remote popup button is true (the
default), the resulting menu will grab the focus under windows (and mac
system 7), but not on PPC mac. I'd guess this is a related isssue.

Martin

>For example, one thing that has been bugged in Bugzilla is that opening
>up a popup menu remotely:
>
>  popup (long id of btn "ContextPop" of card 1 of stack "MyStack") at
>the mouseLoc
>
>is modal on MacOS (i.e. it waits until you pick something from the menu
>before it goes to the next script line), but on Windows, it's not (it
>pops up the menu and immediately goes to the next script line).
>
>So to get around it, I have added right after it:
>
>  if the platform is "Win32" then
>    wait until the mouse is up with messages
>  end if
>
>This causes the script to pause, but allows other things to happen
>(pendingMessages get sent, etc.).
>
>HTH,
>
>Ken Ray



From dcragg at lacscentre.co.uk  Sun Feb  1 04:47:56 2004
From: dcragg at lacscentre.co.uk (Dave Cragg)
Date: Sun, 1 Feb 2004 09:47:56 +0000
Subject: wait with messages...
In-Reply-To: <GGEOJBEEGFHLDOFIMMPIEEIDFOAA.chipp@chipp.com>
References: <GGEOJBEEGFHLDOFIMMPIEEIDFOAA.chipp@chipp.com>
Message-ID: <p06020404bc427848d31d@[192.168.123.7]>

At 12:14 am -0600 1/2/04, Chipp Walters wrote:

>Would it be something like:
>
>wait for 4 seconds with messages

I'm not sure if that will work. The old Metacard docs only show the 
"with messages" option being valid with the "wait until" or "wait 
while" variations of wait. I.e. it needs a condition. But the Rev 
docs shows it being OK with "wait for" as well.

>wait for messages
>(pauses handler until *any* message is received? and why would I ever use
>this?)
>
>I have a feeling there's some great power here, I just want to understand
>how to use it!

This one puzzled me when I took over libUrl. It was full of snippets 
like this (and still is):

repeat until <condition>
   wait for messages
end repeat

It seemed the same as this:

wait until <condition> with messages.

But Scott (Raney) told me that the "wait for messages" in the repeat 
loop is much more efficient as the condition is tested only when a 
message is sent. In the single liner, the condition is tested 
continually ( a bit like "idle").

My own limited testing at the time didn't seem to show a great 
difference in how often the condition was tested. But the explanation 
seemed sensible, so I stuck with the "wait for messages" in the 
repeat loop.

Cheers
Dave

From Cubist at aol.com  Sun Feb  1 05:49:21 2004
From: Cubist at aol.com (Cubist at aol.com)
Date: Sun, 1 Feb 2004 05:49:21 EST
Subject: use-revolution Digest, Vol 4, Issue 211
Message-ID: <1df.1887a0b8.2d4e33b1@aol.com>


In a message dated 1/31/04 11:16:03 PM, 
use-revolution-request at lists.runrev.com writes:

>
>Date: Sat, 31 Jan 2004 15:39:12 -0800
>From: Robert Presender <rpresender at earthlink.net>
>Subject: Re:List field behavior
>To: use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
>Message-ID: <AC7E0B51-5446-11D8-AB6E-000393A19046 at earthlink.net>
>Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed
>
>Rob,
>
>On Saturday, January 31, 2004, at 03:04  PM, Rob Cozens wrote:
>
>> Bob,
>>
>> Is this the effect you are looking for:
>>
>>  delete line 2 of field [fieldName]
>>  wait 1 second -- to see deletion
>>  put "New line 2" & return before line 2 of field [fieldName]
>>
>No. This just adds a blank line in line 3 of 4. My problem is that I 
>want line 3 to take the place of line 2 and result in only two lines. 
>I don't want to add text to the deleted line.  I use a count syntax to
>add a new line after the existing lines in my SC version.
>In my SC app, when a line is deleted the lines below move up to the 
>deleted space.
   On my machine, the command "delete line Whatever" behaves the way you want 
it to; I have no idea why it's not working for you. But that isn't very 
helpful, so here's an alternative which should hopefully do the trick...

on NukeLine DerFld, LineNum
  if there is not a field DerFld then
    answer "There is no field named '" & DerFld & "'."
    exit NukeLine
  end if
  if LineNum is not a number then
    answer "A field cannot have a line number '" & LineNum & "'."
    exit NukeLine
  end if
  if LineNum is not an integer then put trunc (LineNum) into LineNum
  if LineNum < 1 then put 1 into LineNum
  put the number of lines in field DerFld into MaxLinez
  if LineNum => MaxLinez then
    put (MaxLinez - 1) into Begyn
    put MaxLinez into Ende
  else
    put LineNum into Begyn
    put (LineNum + 1) into Ende
  end if
    put line Ende of field DerFld into line Begyn to Ende of field DerFld
  end NukeLine

   The final line of the hander is the actual suggestion; everything that 
precedes it is just idiot-proofing.
   Hope this helps...

From ttasovac at princeton.edu  Sun Feb  1 06:01:22 2004
From: ttasovac at princeton.edu (Toma Tasovac)
Date: Sun, 1 Feb 2004 12:01:22 +0100
Subject: placeholders in mySQL queries
Message-ID: <F861CC79-54A5-11D8-95F7-000A95C45C8C@princeton.edu>

Hello everybody.

Does anybody have any idea why this works:

global tDatabaseID
global tFormID

on mouseUp
   put unidecode (char 1 to -1 of fld "pronunciation", "utf8") into 
updatedPronunciation
   put "UPDATE entry SET entry.pronunciation =:1 WHERE entry.formID 
='4'" into tQuery
   revExecuteSQL tDatabaseID,tQuery,"updatedPronunciation"
   put the result
end mouseUp

BUT why using two placeholders instead of one does not????

global tDatabaseID
global tFormID

on mouseUp
   put unidecode (char 1 to -1 of fld "pronunciation", "utf8") into 
updatedPronunciation
   put "UPDATE entry SET entry.pronunciation =:1 WHERE entry.formID =:2" 
into tQuery
   revExecuteSQL tDatabaseID,tQuery,"updatedPronunciation", "tFormID"
   put the result
end mouseUp


In the second case, even though "tFormID" evaluates to 4, making it 
exactly the same as the first example, the result is always 0, and no 
update is being made.

All best,
Toma


From rpresender at earthlink.net  Sun Feb  1 07:15:01 2004
From: rpresender at earthlink.net (Robert Presender)
Date: Sun, 1 Feb 2004 04:15:01 -0800
Subject: List field behavior
In-Reply-To: <20040201061525.4D354930100@mail.runrev.com>
Message-ID: <42A00EE2-54B0-11D8-AB6E-000393A19046@earthlink.net>

Thanks to Jacqueline, Rob and Bj?rnke von Gierke for your input.  I 
appreciate it.
Regards .... Bob

On Saturday, January 31, 2004, at 10:15  PM, Jacqueline Landman Gay 
wrote:

> On 1/31/04 5:39 PM, Robert Presender wrote:
>
>>> Is this the effect you are looking for:
>>>
>>>     delete line 2 of field [fieldName]
>>>     wait 1 second -- to see deletion
>>>     put "New line 2" & return before line 2 of field [fieldName]
>>>
>> No. This just adds a blank line in line 3 of 4. My problem is that I
>> want line 3 to take the place of line 2 and result in only two lines.
>
> This behavior was a bug, now fixed in the latest version.
>
> -- 
> Jacqueline Landman Gay         |     jacque at hyperactivesw.com
> HyperActive Software           |     http://www.hyperactivesw.com


From dsc at swcp.com  Sun Feb  1 08:48:31 2004
From: dsc at swcp.com (Dar Scott)
Date: Sun, 1 Feb 2004 06:48:31 -0700
Subject: wait with messages...
In-Reply-To: <p06020404bc427848d31d@[192.168.123.7]>
Message-ID: <523A14F7-54BD-11D8-BA8E-000A9567A3E6@swcp.com>


On Sunday, February 1, 2004, at 02:47 AM, Dave Cragg wrote:

> repeat until <condition>
>   wait for messages
> end repeat
>
> It seemed the same as this:
>
> wait until <condition> with messages.

I think I get it.  Use the first for testing something that will be set 
by a callback. Use the second if there is no callback as in polling the 
shift key or calling an external.

It would be nice if there was a way to filter what messages got 
processed.

Dar Scott


From gbojsza at mac.com  Sun Feb  1 10:00:08 2004
From: gbojsza at mac.com (Bojsza)
Date: Sun, 1 Feb 2004 09:00:08 -0600
Subject: Multiple Cards on a Tab?
Message-ID: <53604289-54C7-11D8-BB4F-003065F00EF2@mac.com>

I want to use the tabs for the user to navigate to different parts of 
the application. But on one of the tabs I want to use it as a 
configuration builder, where the screen has several fields that the 
user fills in and then can save. On this tab I want to list the saved 
configurations available and if the user wants to bring up one of these 
it populates the fields properly.

I believe that this can be done by having multiple cards in a normal 
situation but is it possible to have multiple cards associated with one 
tab?

Could it look like a normal tab?

thanks,

Glen


From dsc at swcp.com  Sun Feb  1 10:12:47 2004
From: dsc at swcp.com (Dar Scott)
Date: Sun, 1 Feb 2004 08:12:47 -0700
Subject: Multiple Cards on a Tab?
In-Reply-To: <53604289-54C7-11D8-BB4F-003065F00EF2@mac.com>
Message-ID: <1835FE8A-54C9-11D8-BA8E-000A9567A3E6@swcp.com>


On Sunday, February 1, 2004, at 08:00 AM, Bojsza wrote:

> I believe that this can be done by having multiple cards in a normal 
> situation but is it possible to have multiple cards associated with 
> one tab?

I'm not sure what you mean.  You might want to look into putting the 
tab into a shared group (background).

Dar Scott


From doug at webcrossing.com  Sun Feb  1 10:33:43 2004
From: doug at webcrossing.com (Doug Lerner)
Date: Mon, 02 Feb 2004 00:33:43 +0900
Subject: closeStack and the message path question
Message-ID: <BC434B67.24FB4%doug@webcrossing.com>

I have a stack, and a substack with the following handlers in it:

stack
    closeStackRequest
    closeStack

    substack
        closeStack


Since the substack does not have its own closeStackRequest it seems to be
taking the one from the parent stack.

But after the parent stack's closeStackRequest is done, the closeStack that
apepars to get executed is the closeStack handler in the parent stack,
rather than the one in the substack.

Is that the way it's supposed to work?

doug


From sjoerdoptland at s2theatertechniek.nl  Sun Feb  1 10:48:23 2004
From: sjoerdoptland at s2theatertechniek.nl (Sjoerd Op 't Land)
Date: Sun,  1 Feb 2004 16:48:23 +0100
Subject: revdberr: invalid database type
Message-ID: <1075650503.401d1fc74e2d7@webmail.utwente.nl>

On Fri, 30 Jan 2004 06:09:08 -0800 (PST), Jan Schenkel wrote

> I had the same problem a while back when I was
> experimenting with the cgi-engine ; the quick solution
> is to copy the database drivers into the same dir as
> the engine and the cgi-scripts.
I tried this (with or w/o issuing revSetDatbaseDriverPath); no luck. I'm using 
engine version 2.51G buildnumber 1. This same engine works perfectly on 
another server, strange isn't it?

> The cleaner way is to use the command
> 'revSetDatabaseDriverPath' to point to the correct
> directory on your server before making any calls to
> the revdb functions.
I know, this is the way it worked before (on the other server). Could it be 
some permission problem? (I don't know how *.so files (drivers) are used in 
Linux. Do they need special permissions to be mounted or something like that 
(I'm a Linux newbie, please share your knowlege)?)

> Hope this helped,
> 
> Jan Schenkel.
Thanks so far,
Sjoerd Op 't Land

From mcdomi at free.fr  Sun Feb  1 10:48:54 2004
From: mcdomi at free.fr (Dom)
Date: Sun, 1 Feb 2004 16:48:54 +0100
Subject: GoRevnet & LibURL? (Was: Re: libURL issues?)
In-Reply-To: <BC3C3931.3C117%ambassador@fourthworld.com>
Message-ID: <1g8hkty.1hgcwtyb9ze9lM%mcdomi@free.fr>

Richard Gaskin <ambassador at fourthworld.com> wrote:

> > <http://www.runrev.com/revolution/developers/interimreleases/liburl/rele
> > ases.s html>
> 
> I'm using that one since yesterday.

Hi, Richard!

Back to the List.

I downloaded and installed LibURL 1.0.3
With no luck.

The RevNet "update list" buttons seems to be unresponsive.
Nothing appears to arrive.
I tried a number of times, every 20 seconds, with no luck.

Do you think really it is a backside effect of the MyDoom attack?
I received some fake error messages originated by this virus, but not
much, in fact.


I tried the trick proposed by Dave (to comment a certain line in
GoRevNet). That worked ONCE (got the stacks list), but ceased quickly...

Doing more tests...

My configuration :
Mac OS 10.2.4
Revolution 2.1.2

Also, I tried to save the Revnet stack on my disk. Not possible via the
menu, the "Save" items are grayed. Successful via the message box :-)
Anyway, this stack is unusable in "local" mode, isn't it?

-- 
Digital photos (nature, garden) : http://cooldomi.free.fr/
Scripting : http://domiscript.free.fr/

From doug at webcrossing.com  Sun Feb  1 11:17:57 2004
From: doug at webcrossing.com (Doug Lerner)
Date: Mon, 02 Feb 2004 01:17:57 +0900
Subject: Going crazy with closing a stack
Message-ID: <BC4355C5.24FC4%doug@webcrossing.com>

When I close a stack in which the video grabber is embedded, I am trying to
clean up as follows:

on closeStack
  global recordvideo
  answer "closing stack " & the short name of this stack
  put false into recordvideo
  revCloseVideoGrabber
end closeStack

Putting false into recordvideo should stop the repeat loop needed for QT, as
per the sample stack and docs. revCloseVideoGrabber should close the video
grabber. The answer command should at least acknowledge that the stack is
being closed.

BUT... even if I close the stack manually, the answer dialog doesn't even
appear.

The closeStack handler is just not being called. And it is a handler local
to the stack itself!

What might block the closeStack message from being sent to this stack
handler?

Thanks,

doug


From gizmotron at earthlink.net  Sun Feb  1 11:24:01 2004
From: gizmotron at earthlink.net (Mark Brownell)
Date: Sun, 1 Feb 2004 08:24:01 -0800
Subject: base64encode & decode in a standalone
In-Reply-To: <190182AC-545B-11D8-B8D5-000A95859272@earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <0B463557-54D3-11D8-9E4A-000A95859272@earthlink.net>

On Saturday, January 31, 2004, at 06:05  PM, I wrote:

> I believe that I read about this somewhere but I can't find it in the 
> list archives. I have a save file function that compresses then 
> base64encodes some data as it puts this data into a URL using binfile: 
> This works on Mac10.2.4 in  the IDE but it doesn't work in the 
> standalone. The base64Encodes & base64Decodes scripts are ignored in 
> the standalone but they save and open as compressed.

While trying to fix this I got this to work in the standalone:

put compress(tankX) into tkx
put base64Encode(tkx) into tky
set the fileType to "ttxtTEXT"
put tky into URL ("binfile:" & it)

It looks like the fileType matters before it will save as base64Encoded.

I can make this work as an option for deliberately base64Encoding 
files. I have no problems saving my own fileType, "MTMLMTML," with 
compression.

What's really strange is that it looks like any file that has been 
base64Encoded are the only type that open now. This is what I wanted 
originally and I can't figure out why yet. Certainly it must be some 
fileType issue allowing this to work.

Mark


From sanke at hrz.uni-kassel.de  Sun Feb  1 12:25:21 2004
From: sanke at hrz.uni-kassel.de (Wilhelm Sanke)
Date: Sun, 01 Feb 2004 18:25:21 +0100
Subject: Icons, big "answer" box
Message-ID: <401D3681.5010609@hrz.uni-kassel.de>

On 31 Jan 2004  Thomas Cole <Tom.Cole at asu.edu> wrote

> (snip)
> 1. When you use the answer "whatever" command in RR, the box that 
> comes up is often so darned big that it spreads across the screen and 
> you have to pull it around to read it. I have a program that gives 
> instructions using the answer this or that command and this is a real 
> problem. Is there any way to make answers appear neatly as they used 
> to do in HyperCard?
> (snip)
> What am I doing wrong?
>
> Many thanks,
> Tom


and on Sat, 31 Jan  Richard Gaskin wrote:

> I believe there is a Bugzilla report for this.  Please consider voting for
> it.
>
> -- Richard Gaskin Fourth World Media Corporation


and on Sun, 1 Feb Bj?rnke von Gierke<bvg at mac.com> wrote:

> You can also try to wrap your messages yourself so instead of:
>
> answer "very long text that stretches the message box way beyond the
> screen borders."
>
> you could write
>
> answer "very long text that stretches the message box" & return & "way
> beyond the screen borders."


Maybe there is a Bugzilla report for this, but the "big" answer dialog 
is not really a bug, but rather an intended feature.

Three recommendations to get a a better proportioned width of the 
"answer dialog":

1. Open the card script of stack "answer dialog"

  - comment line "#set the width of button i to 82"
add a new line after that line, namely  "set the width of btn i to the 
formattedwidth of btn i + 10"
 
 - comment line  "#if the width of btn i < the formattedWidth of btn i 
+28 then set the width of btn i to the formattedWidth of btn i + 28"

- comment line "#if tWidth < 400 then put 400 into tWidth"

Additionally use Bj?rnke von Gierkes recommendation to wrap the message like

  answer "very long text that stretches the message box" & return & "way
beyond the screen borders."

Together this should produce acceptable results.

2. Use the "answer dialog" of the Metacard IDE

   Add the Metacard "answer dialog" to your stack as a substack. When 
you use the "answer" command, this substack will be called instead of 
the Rev stack. (Of course you could also permantly replace the Rev 
"answer dialog" stack with the Metacard IDE stack in the Rev IDE).

The Metacard "answer dialog" is much "smaller", proportioned, and 
somewhat more flexible.
So you can set the textsize (set the textsize of stack "answer dialog" 
to 16), which is not possible with the Rev "answer dialog" unless you 
change the "presets" in the script of the dialog - necessary then each 
time you want to have a different textsize.
What you can do with the text of the Rev dialog is to set the 
"textstyle" - for example to bold - to improve the readability of the 
tiny text of the Rev dialog.

3. Design you own modal dialogs

Usually I use the Rev and Metacard "answer dialogs" - and for that 
matter the "ask dialogs" - mainly during development as an interim solution.
For a completed project I often add my own custom dialogs specifically 
adapted to the needed user input.

For example:  I want the user to select a  number of problems from a 
"repertoire" field or file, the range being from 4 to 50.
Even with the smaller Metacard "ask dialog" the width of the  input 
field for this  two-digit number is out of proportion (and could hold 
billions).

With a custom dialog - designed from scratch or as a modified dialog - 
you can control all kind of options you want to have, e.g. the location 
of the modal dialog on the screen or relative to the stack.
I have used such a custom dialog in my stack "Topsearch" (see Rev "user 
contributions").

Regards,

Wilhelm Sanke



From gbojsza at mac.com  Sun Feb  1 12:47:41 2004
From: gbojsza at mac.com (Bojsza)
Date: Sun, 1 Feb 2004 11:47:41 -0600
Subject: How to Remove Stack's Shadow
Message-ID: <BBDD6ED3-54DE-11D8-BB4F-003065F00EF2@mac.com>

I have created a main stack 800 by 600 and a sub stack 500 by 300.

I have set the location of the sub stack to the center of the main 
stack and have given it no controls. There is a shadow from the sub 
stack when it is shown...is it possible to not show this shadow?

thanks,

Glen


From rjb at rz.uni-potsdam.de  Sun Feb  1 12:54:36 2004
From: rjb at rz.uni-potsdam.de (Robert Brenstein)
Date: Sun, 1 Feb 2004 18:54:36 +0100
Subject: Going crazy with closing a stack
In-Reply-To: <BC4355C5.24FC4%doug@webcrossing.com>
References: <BC4355C5.24FC4%doug@webcrossing.com>
Message-ID: <a06020407bc42ed0ca19f@[141.89.100.235]>

>When I close a stack in which the video grabber is embedded, I am trying to
>clean up as follows:
>
>on closeStack
>   global recordvideo
>   answer "closing stack " & the short name of this stack
>   put false into recordvideo
>   revCloseVideoGrabber
>end closeStack
>
>Putting false into recordvideo should stop the repeat loop needed for QT, as
>per the sample stack and docs. revCloseVideoGrabber should close the video
>grabber. The answer command should at least acknowledge that the stack is
>being closed.
>
>BUT... even if I close the stack manually, the answer dialog doesn't even
>appear.
>
>The closeStack handler is just not being called. And it is a handler local
>to the stack itself!
>
>What might block the closeStack message from being sent to this stack
>handler?
>
>Thanks,
>
>doug

I believe that the closeStack is sent as expected. However, the 
engine is closing fast and the dialog is not showing up. It is known 
that it does not wait for dialogs at that stage. If you want to pop a 
dialog, use the closeStackRequest. JUst make sure to pass it or the 
stack will never close.

Robert Brenstein

From rjb at rz.uni-potsdam.de  Sun Feb  1 13:43:11 2004
From: rjb at rz.uni-potsdam.de (Robert Brenstein)
Date: Sun, 1 Feb 2004 19:43:11 +0100
Subject: Multiple Cards on a Tab?
In-Reply-To: <1835FE8A-54C9-11D8-BA8E-000A9567A3E6@swcp.com>
References: <1835FE8A-54C9-11D8-BA8E-000A9567A3E6@swcp.com>
Message-ID: <a06020409bc42f89f5980@[141.89.100.235]>

>On Sunday, February 1, 2004, at 08:00 AM, Bojsza wrote:
>
>>I believe that this can be done by having multiple cards in a 
>>normal situation but is it possible to have multiple cards 
>>associated with one tab?
>
>I'm not sure what you mean.  You might want to look into putting the 
>tab into a shared group (background).
>
>Dar Scott

I think this is exactly what he needs. I believe he wants to switch 
cards while showing the same tab. If the same tabbed button is placed 
on all those cards and the same tab is active (which you can switch 
from script), user will not know that you are on a different card.

Robert

From gbojsza at mac.com  Sun Feb  1 14:26:14 2004
From: gbojsza at mac.com (Bojsza)
Date: Sun, 1 Feb 2004 13:26:14 -0600
Subject: Multiple Cards on a Tab?
Message-ID: <7FF835DE-54EC-11D8-BB4F-003065F00EF2@mac.com>

What Robert is describing is exactly what I am trying for.

Can it be done or should I take a different approach for the same 
effect?

Glen


From dsc at swcp.com  Sun Feb  1 14:28:00 2004
From: dsc at swcp.com (Dar Scott)
Date: Sun, 1 Feb 2004 12:28:00 -0700
Subject: Multiple Cards on a Tab?
In-Reply-To: <a06020409bc42f89f5980@[141.89.100.235]>
Message-ID: <BF22EC48-54EC-11D8-BA8E-000A9567A3E6@swcp.com>


On Sunday, February 1, 2004, at 11:43 AM, Robert Brenstein wrote:

> I think this is exactly what he needs. I believe he wants to switch 
> cards while showing the same tab. If the same tabbed button is placed 
> on all those cards and the same tab is active (which you can switch 
> from script), user will not know that you are on a different card.

Also...  If, say, card names need to go on the tabs, the group can be 
smart enough to handle that.  (I would think.)

Dar Scott


From dsc at swcp.com  Sun Feb  1 15:42:32 2004
From: dsc at swcp.com (Dar Scott)
Date: Sun, 1 Feb 2004 13:42:32 -0700
Subject: base64encode & decode in a standalone
In-Reply-To: <0B463557-54D3-11D8-9E4A-000A95859272@earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <28EFAA45-54F7-11D8-BA8E-000A9567A3E6@swcp.com>


On Sunday, February 1, 2004, at 09:24 AM, Mark Brownell wrote:

> It looks like the fileType matters before it will save as 
> base64Encoded.

I don't get it.  How will a file type affect whether the function works 
or now?

Dar


From shaosean at unitz.ca  Sun Feb  1 16:10:53 2004
From: shaosean at unitz.ca (shaosean at unitz.ca)
Date: Sun, 01 Feb 2004 16:10:53 -0500
Subject: Multiple Cards on a Tab?
In-Reply-To: <7FF835DE-54EC-11D8-BB4F-003065F00EF2@mac.com>
References: <7FF835DE-54EC-11D8-BB4F-003065F00EF2@mac.com>
Message-ID: <WorldClient-F200402011610.AA10530099@unitz.ca>

<tootOwnHorn>

take a look at the sample stacks at RunRev's website showing how to use 
tabs.. there's one stack showing the use with hidden fields, and another 
stack showing the use with multiple cards..

http://www.runrev.com/revolution/downloads/developerdownloads/usingtabs.z
ip

http://www.runrev.com/revolution/downloads/developerdownloads/Using_Tabs_
with_Cards.zip

</tootOwnHorn>


-Sean


From DouglasMackay at blueyonder.co.uk  Sun Feb  1 16:55:20 2004
From: DouglasMackay at blueyonder.co.uk (Douglas Mackay)
Date: Sun, 1 Feb 2004 21:55:20 -0000
Subject: help with understanding why script dont give disired outcome
Message-ID: <000e01c3e90e$16537cd0$8ebc2952@PATRIOT>

here is part of the script I am working with :
on mouseUp
  global Gbox
  ask "Date of Birth? (eg. 23/9/1987)"
  put it into firstDate
  ask "Date of Assessment? (eg. 18/3/2001)"
  put it into secondDate
  put whichage (firstDate, secondDate) into dateholder

  if Gbox = 1
  then put "year" into field "nameYear"
  else
    put "years" into field "nameYear"
  end if
  put Gbox into field "year2"

  if item 2 of dateholder = 1
  then put "month" into field "nameMonth"
  else
    put "months" into field "nameMonth"
  end if
  put item 2 of dateholder into field "month"

  if item 3 of dateholder = 1
  then put "day" into field "nameDay"
  else
    put "days" into field "nameDay"
  end if
  put item 3 of dateholder into field "day"
end mouseUp


function whichage fromwhich,towhich
  global Gbox
  set the centuryCutoff to 35
  set useSystemDate to true
  if param(1) = "" then exit to top
  put param(1) into startdate
  put param(2) into enddate
  set the itemDelimiter to "/"

  put item 3 of startdate into GsYear
  put item 3 of enddate into GeYear

  set the itemDelimiter to comma
  convert startdate to dateitems
  convert enddate to dateitems
  put item 3 of enddate into bbmsg
  put (item 3 of enddate - item 3 of startdate) into diffjour
  if diffjour < 0 then
    add "1" to item 2 of startdate
    get item 2 of enddate
    if (it is in "1,3,5,7,8,10") or (it= "12") then put "31" into correction
    else if (it is in "4,6,9,11") then put "30" into correction
    else if item 1 of enddate mod 4 = 0 then put "29" into correction
    else put "28" into correction
    add correction to item 3 of enddate
    put (item 3 of enddate - item 3 of startdate) into diffjour
  end if
  put (item 2 of enddate - item 2 of startdate) into diffmois
  if diffmois < 0 then
    add "1" to item 1 of startdate
    put (item 2 of enddate) + 12 into item 2 of enddate
    put (item 2 of enddate - item 2 of startdate) into diffmois
    add "1" to GsYear

the line in bold type will not work when giving start and enddates 1961 , and for example todays date .having looked in the debugger  convert startdate to dateitems

 and                  convert enddate to dateitems  
only converts the enddate to dateitems 

can anyone explain why this happens please to me ?

Douglas
    

From James.Cass at sealedair.com  Sun Feb  1 16:53:23 2004
From: James.Cass at sealedair.com (James.Cass at sealedair.com)
Date: Sun, 1 Feb 2004 16:53:23 -0500
Subject: How to Remove Stack's Shadow
In-Reply-To: <BBDD6ED3-54DE-11D8-BB4F-003065F00EF2@mac.com>
Message-ID: <OF4130D138.E59C6307-ON85256E2D.00781B15-85256E2D.0078E23C@sealedair.com>

Glen -

Try this:     set the shadow of this stack to false
I found this by looking up "shadow" in the Transcript Dictionary.
Hope this is what you needed.

- James





Bojsza <gbojsza at mac.com>
Sent by: use-revolution-bounces at lists.runrev.com
02/01/04 12:47 PM
Please respond to How to use Revolution
 
        To:     use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
        cc: 
        Subject:        How to Remove Stack's Shadow


I have created a main stack 800 by 600 and a sub stack 500 by 300.

I have set the location of the sub stack to the center of the main
stack and have given it no controls. There is a shadow from the sub
stack when it is shown...is it possible to not show this shadow?

thanks,

Glen

_______________________________________________
use-revolution mailing list
use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution

From sanke at hrz.uni-kassel.de  Sun Feb  1 16:50:50 2004
From: sanke at hrz.uni-kassel.de (Wilhelm Sanke)
Date: Sun, 01 Feb 2004 22:50:50 +0100
Subject: Going crazy with closing a stack
Message-ID: <401D74BA.8010102@hrz.uni-kassel.de>


On Mon Feb 2  Doug Lerner doug at webcrossing.com wrote:

>     
> When I close a stack in which the video grabber is embedded, I am 
> trying to
> clean up as follows:
>
> (snip)
>
> BUT... even if I close the stack manually, the answer dialog doesn't even
> appear.
>
> The closeStack handler is just not being called. And it is a handler local
> to the stack itself!
>
> What might block the closeStack message from being sent to this stack
> handler?
>
> Thanks,
>
> doug



Probably this is  related to the problem Revolution has in handling 
greater amounts of data.

I have various stacks here that contain a larger number of controls on 
one card.

A stack with a card containing 1500 controls takes about 10 minutes to 
close - on my G4 Powerbook with 667 MHz.

Metacard closes the same stack immediately.

Regards,

Wilhelm Sanke



From rjb at rz.uni-potsdam.de  Sun Feb  1 17:19:00 2004
From: rjb at rz.uni-potsdam.de (Robert Brenstein)
Date: Sun, 1 Feb 2004 23:19:00 +0100
Subject: Multiple Cards on a Tab?
In-Reply-To: <7FF835DE-54EC-11D8-BB4F-003065F00EF2@mac.com>
References: <7FF835DE-54EC-11D8-BB4F-003065F00EF2@mac.com>
Message-ID: <a0602040abc432b18357b@[141.89.100.235]>

>What Robert is describing is exactly what I am trying for.
>
>Can it be done or should I take a different approach for the same effect?
>
>Glen

Depending on the amount of data (field content, checkboxes, radio 
buttons, etc), you can ease switch cards keeping the same tab (as you 
considered) or keep the data as custom properties instead of cards 
and simply swap the data.  User will not know the difference. Each 
approach has its pros and cons. I think the latter is a bit 'cleaner' 
to program and maintain.

Robert

From frank at backtalk.com  Sun Feb  1 17:44:46 2004
From: frank at backtalk.com (Frank Leahy)
Date: Sun, 1 Feb 2004 22:44:46 +0000
Subject: Going crazy with closing a stack
In-Reply-To: <20040201220222.B254E930092@mail.runrev.com>
Message-ID: <3C664DAE-5508-11D8-A8C6-000A9580FCCE@backtalk.com>


On Sunday, February 1, 2004, at 10:02  PM, 
use-revolution-request at lists.runrev.com wrote:

> A stack with a card containing 1500 controls takes about 10 minutes to
> close - on my G4 Powerbook with 667 MHz.

If you are doing something with those controls when you close the stack 
(e.g. moving them, or resetting any values), that can take a very long 
time.

Either way, try setting lock screen and lock messages in your 
closeStack handler and see if that speeds things up.

-- Frank


From dsc at swcp.com  Sun Feb  1 18:01:34 2004
From: dsc at swcp.com (Dar Scott)
Date: Sun, 1 Feb 2004 16:01:34 -0700
Subject: Compilers?
Message-ID: <9545CD24-550A-11D8-BA8E-000A9567A3E6@swcp.com>

What compilers are you folks using for what platforms (from what 
platforms) for making externals?

(Other comments?  Recommendations?  Etc.)

Dar Scott


From davethebrv at crystalpiersw.com  Sun Feb  1 18:07:13 2004
From: davethebrv at crystalpiersw.com (Dave Beck)
Date: Sun, 01 Feb 2004 15:07:13 -0800
Subject: Non-blocking way to open MS Word files?
In-Reply-To: <20040201220222.B254E930092@mail.runrev.com>
Message-ID: <BC42C6A1.35EB%davethebrv@crystalpiersw.com>



Just want to say thanks so much for the help! I actually used a combination
of the launch command with a separate mini 'launcher' stack to do the trick.
Great idea, Scott! From my main stack, I set a registry key indicating the
path of the document I want to launch, and then use the launch command to
launch my mini 'launcher' stack. The 'launcher' stack reads the reg key, and
then uses the shell() function to open the document.

The only drawbacks are 1) Now my app will be 1 meg bigger because of the
mini 'launcher' app, and 2) You can only launch one document at a time. If
you try to open a second when the first is still open, nothing happens. Oh
well, it works well enough for me!

Thanks again! Great idea with the mini-launcher.
Dave


From doug at webcrossing.com  Sun Feb  1 18:17:49 2004
From: doug at webcrossing.com (Doug Lerner)
Date: Mon, 02 Feb 2004 08:17:49 +0900
Subject: Going crazy with closing a stack
In-Reply-To: <a06020407bc42ed0ca19f@[141.89.100.235]>
Message-ID: <BC43B82D.25037%doug@webcrossing.com>

On 2/2/04 2:54 AM, "Robert Brenstein" <rjb at rz.uni-potsdam.de> wrote:

>> When I close a stack in which the video grabber is embedded, I am trying to
>> clean up as follows:
>> 
>> on closeStack
>>   global recordvideo
>>   answer "closing stack " & the short name of this stack
>>   put false into recordvideo
>>   revCloseVideoGrabber
>> end closeStack
>> 
>> Putting false into recordvideo should stop the repeat loop needed for QT, as
>> per the sample stack and docs. revCloseVideoGrabber should close the video
>> grabber. The answer command should at least acknowledge that the stack is
>> being closed.
>> 
>> BUT... even if I close the stack manually, the answer dialog doesn't even
>> appear.
>> 
>> The closeStack handler is just not being called. And it is a handler local
>> to the stack itself!
>> 
>> What might block the closeStack message from being sent to this stack
>> handler?
>> 
>> Thanks,
>> 
>> doug
> 
> I believe that the closeStack is sent as expected. However, the
> engine is closing fast and the dialog is not showing up. It is known
> that it does not wait for dialogs at that stage. If you want to pop a
> dialog, use the closeStackRequest. JUst make sure to pass it or the
> stack will never close.


I know the local closeStack is not getting handled for other reasons though.
For example, "false" is not get put into recordvideo and
revCloseVideoGrabber is not getting called.

doug


From doug at webcrossing.com  Sun Feb  1 18:26:47 2004
From: doug at webcrossing.com (Doug Lerner)
Date: Mon, 02 Feb 2004 08:26:47 +0900
Subject: Going crazy with closing a stack
In-Reply-To: <401D74BA.8010102@hrz.uni-kassel.de>
Message-ID: <BC43BA48.2503E%doug@webcrossing.com>

On 2/2/04 6:50 AM, "Wilhelm Sanke" <sanke at hrz.uni-kassel.de> wrote:

> 
> On Mon Feb 2  Doug Lerner doug at webcrossing.com wrote:
> 
>> 
>> When I close a stack in which the video grabber is embedded, I am
>> trying to
>> clean up as follows:
>> 
>> (snip)
>> 
>> BUT... even if I close the stack manually, the answer dialog doesn't even
>> appear.
>> 
>> The closeStack handler is just not being called. And it is a handler local
>> to the stack itself!
>> 
>> What might block the closeStack message from being sent to this stack
>> handler?
>> 
>> Thanks,
>> 
>> doug
> 
> 
> 
> Probably this is  related to the problem Revolution has in handling
> greater amounts of data.
> 
> I have various stacks here that contain a larger number of controls on
> one card.
> 
> A stack with a card containing 1500 controls takes about 10 minutes to
> close - on my G4 Powerbook with 667 MHz.
> 
> Metacard closes the same stack immediately.

This stack only has two controls on it - an image and a button.

doug


From doug at webcrossing.com  Sun Feb  1 18:31:17 2004
From: doug at webcrossing.com (Doug Lerner)
Date: Mon, 02 Feb 2004 08:31:17 +0900
Subject: Going crazy with closing a stack
In-Reply-To: <3C664DAE-5508-11D8-A8C6-000A9580FCCE@backtalk.com>
Message-ID: <BC43BB55.25040%doug@webcrossing.com>

On 2/2/04 7:44 AM, "Frank Leahy" <frank at backtalk.com> wrote:

> 
> On Sunday, February 1, 2004, at 10:02  PM,
> use-revolution-request at lists.runrev.com wrote:
> 
>> A stack with a card containing 1500 controls takes about 10 minutes to
>> close - on my G4 Powerbook with 667 MHz.
> 
> If you are doing something with those controls when you close the stack
> (e.g. moving them, or resetting any values), that can take a very long
> time.
> 
> Either way, try setting lock screen and lock messages in your
> closeStack handler and see if that speeds things up.

My problem doesn't have anything to do with excessive controls. There are
just two in the stack. I am sure the closeStack handler itself is just not
being run, even when manually closing the stack. The revCloseVideoGrabber
isn't happening, which is what got me started on this.

doug


From gbojsza at mac.com  Sun Feb  1 18:55:13 2004
From: gbojsza at mac.com (Bojsza)
Date: Sun, 1 Feb 2004 17:55:13 -0600
Subject: How to Remove Stack's Shadow
Message-ID: <13AB3B82-5512-11D8-BB4F-003065F00EF2@mac.com>

James,

I have tried this and it doesn't seem to work? Does it work for you?

Glen

 > Glen -

 > Try this:     set the shadow of this stack to false
 > I found this by looking up "shadow" in the Transcript Dictionary.
 > Hope this is what you needed.

 > - James 

From squance at elkvalley.net  Sun Feb  1 19:12:48 2004
From: squance at elkvalley.net (David Squance)
Date: Sun, 1 Feb 2004 17:12:48 -0700
Subject: find (and table fields)
In-Reply-To: <20040201081201.68202.qmail@web60508.mail.yahoo.com>
References: <l03130301bc423290f5a8@[192.168.1.100]>
Message-ID: <l03130302bc43436b72f1@[192.168.1.100]>

>Hi Dave,
>
>As the text is stored in a tab-delimited manner, you
>can get at an individual cell quite easily :
>--
>  set the itemDelimiter to tab
>  get item 3 of line 4 of field "Foobar"
>--

Thanks, Jan.  That's what I needed.
Dave



From 3mcgrath at adelphia.net  Sun Feb  1 20:08:59 2004
From: 3mcgrath at adelphia.net (Thomas McGrath III)
Date: Sun, 1 Feb 2004 20:08:59 -0500
Subject: Going crazy with closing a stack
In-Reply-To: <BC43BB55.25040%doug@webcrossing.com>
References: <BC43BB55.25040%doug@webcrossing.com>
Message-ID: <61AA642E-551C-11D8-9D74-000A95DA60FA@adelphia.net>

Doug,

I was having problems with the closeStack as well and it seems everyone 
said it must be something I was doing. Well, usually it is.;-)

But once I put my close down stuff into the on shutDown and my start up 
stuff into on StartUp everything now gets set and handled and works 
great.

It seems to me, since you can put closeStack in a stack and in a 
substack and elsewhere that it may not be as pure as is stated. I mean 
startup is just that and only goes off on startup and shutdown is just 
that and only goes off on shutdown. But preOpenStack and OpenStack and 
closestackrequest etc. seem to be upwardly mobile. I mean they work 
best handling upstream stuff.

Of course I haven't a clue and will probably get reamed but I tell you 
once I moved my stuff into the startup and shutdown handlers they 
finally got called as expected and things then worked great. One 
problem though, I could not debug the startup in the IDE for some 
reason. I put in a break and it never showed but in the standalone 
things were smooth.

FWIW

Tom

On Feb 1, 2004, at 6:31 PM, Doug Lerner wrote:

> On 2/2/04 7:44 AM, "Frank Leahy" <frank at backtalk.com> wrote:
>
>>
>> On Sunday, February 1, 2004, at 10:02  PM,
>> use-revolution-request at lists.runrev.com wrote:
>>
>>> A stack with a card containing 1500 controls takes about 10 minutes 
>>> to
>>> close - on my G4 Powerbook with 667 MHz.
>>
>> If you are doing something with those controls when you close the 
>> stack
>> (e.g. moving them, or resetting any values), that can take a very long
>> time.
>>
>> Either way, try setting lock screen and lock messages in your
>> closeStack handler and see if that speeds things up.
>
> My problem doesn't have anything to do with excessive controls. There 
> are
> just two in the stack. I am sure the closeStack handler itself is just 
> not
> being run, even when manually closing the stack. The 
> revCloseVideoGrabber
> isn't happening, which is what got me started on this.
>
> doug
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>
>

Thomas J. McGrath III
SCS
1000 Killarney Dr.
Pittsburgh, PA 15234
412-885-8541


From 3mcgrath at adelphia.net  Sun Feb  1 20:10:13 2004
From: 3mcgrath at adelphia.net (Thomas McGrath III)
Date: Sun, 1 Feb 2004 20:10:13 -0500
Subject: How to Remove Stack's Shadow
In-Reply-To: <13AB3B82-5512-11D8-BB4F-003065F00EF2@mac.com>
References: <13AB3B82-5512-11D8-BB4F-003065F00EF2@mac.com>
Message-ID: <8DC4E107-551C-11D8-9D74-000A95DA60FA@adelphia.net>

Works here in OSX.

Tom

On Feb 1, 2004, at 6:55 PM, Bojsza wrote:

> James,
>
> I have tried this and it doesn't seem to work? Does it work for you?
>
> Glen
>
> > Glen -
>
> > Try this:     set the shadow of this stack to false
> > I found this by looking up "shadow" in the Transcript Dictionary.
> > Hope this is what you needed.
>
> > - James _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>
>

Thomas J. McGrath III
SCS
1000 Killarney Dr.
Pittsburgh, PA 15234
412-885-8541


From ambassador at fourthworld.com  Sun Feb  1 20:18:56 2004
From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin)
Date: Sun, 01 Feb 2004 17:18:56 -0800
Subject: GoRevnet & LibURL? (Was: Re: libURL issues?)
In-Reply-To: <1g8hkty.1hgcwtyb9ze9lM%mcdomi@free.fr>
Message-ID: <BC42E57F.3C6EC%ambassador@fourthworld.com>

Dom wrote:

> The RevNet "update list" buttons seems to be unresponsive.
> Nothing appears to arrive.
> I tried a number of times, every 20 seconds, with no luck.
> 
> Do you think really it is a backside effect of the MyDoom attack?
> I received some fake error messages originated by this virus, but not
> much, in fact.

I doubt MyDoom is related; it's reported only to be affecting email.
 
> I tried the trick proposed by Dave (to comment a certain line in
> GoRevNet). That worked ONCE (got the stacks list), but ceased quickly...
> 
> Doing more tests...
> 
> My configuration :
> Mac OS 10.2.4
> Revolution 2.1.2

I've had only three reports of similar behavior since RevNet was introduced
in December 2002.

I've not been able to reproduce the error here, but from reading these
reports it seems that something is causing the backscript in the GoRevNet
plugin to be purged.  Two possible causes come to mind:

- Something is explicitely removing the backscript.

- A bug in the engine causes inserted scripts to b removed if the stack
containing them has its destroyStack property set to true and is closed.  By
default the destroyStack property of GoRevnet is false -- could something in
your environment be changing that?

 
> Also, I tried to save the Revnet stack on my disk. Not possible via the
> menu, the "Save" items are grayed. Successful via the message box :-)
> Anyway, this stack is unusable in "local" mode, isn't it?

The only requirement of the downloaded RevNet stack is that the GoRevNet
plugin be opened first, as itcontains a backscriptand image resources needed
by the downlod.

To save RevNet to disk just change its mode to toplevel.  As downloaded its
mode is "modeless" to avoid conflict if the pointer tool is active.

-- 
 Richard Gaskin 
 Fourth World Media Corporation
 ___________________________________________________________
 Ambassador at FourthWorld.com       http://www.FourthWorld.com


From ambassador at fourthworld.com  Sun Feb  1 20:24:26 2004
From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin)
Date: Sun, 01 Feb 2004 17:24:26 -0800
Subject: GoRevnet & LibURL? (Was: Re: libURL issues?)
In-Reply-To: <1g8hkty.1hgcwtyb9ze9lM%mcdomi@free.fr>
Message-ID: <BC42E6CA.3C6F3%ambassador@fourthworld.com>

I just thought of something else:

>> Also, I tried to save the Revnet stack on my disk. Not possible via the
>> menu, the "Save" items are grayed. Successful via the message box :-)
>> Anyway, this stack is unusable in "local" mode, isn't it?
> 
> The only requirement of the downloaded RevNet stack is that the GoRevNet
> plugin be opened first, as itcontains a backscriptand image resources needed
> by the downlod.
> 
> To save RevNet to disk just change its mode to toplevel.  As downloaded its
> mode is "modeless" to avoid conflict if the pointer tool is active.

While it's possible to save RevNet locally and still make use of most of its
resources, its content is being updated with ever-increasing frequency so
it's worth solving whatever compatibility issue is preventing you from using
the "live" version.

-- 
 Richard Gaskin 
 Fourth World Media Corporation
 ___________________________________________________________
 Ambassador at FourthWorld.com       http://www.FourthWorld.com


From gizmotron at earthlink.net  Sun Feb  1 20:28:18 2004
From: gizmotron at earthlink.net (Mark Brownell)
Date: Sun, 1 Feb 2004 17:28:18 -0800
Subject: base64encode & decode in a standalone
In-Reply-To: <28EFAA45-54F7-11D8-BA8E-000A9567A3E6@swcp.com>
Message-ID: <14DBE07C-551F-11D8-B6F9-000A95859272@earthlink.net>


On Sunday, February 1, 2004, at 12:42  PM, Dar Scott wrote:

>
> On Sunday, February 1, 2004, at 09:24 AM, Mark Brownell wrote:
>
>> It looks like the fileType matters before it will save as 
>> base64Encoded.
>
> I don't get it.  How will a file type affect whether the function 
> works or now?
>
> Dar

I don't get it either. Just to be sure I just created a small test app 
as a standalone and I set the fileType to "MTMLMTML" It ended up 
working even though I set the extension to ".gz" It is recognized as a 
MTML. The only difference here is this was a test on already compressed 
data.

The difference looks as if it is when I open an MTML file decompress it 
and then try to save it as MTML it won't save as base64Encode right 
after compress. In the same standalone I can open an already compressed 
MTML file and save it as base64encode fileType "ttxtTEXT" with 
extension ".gz+" I ended up dropping base64encode from the standard 
save process and added base64Encode & Decode as a Help item option for 
internet file preperations transfers.

Anyway it works faster if I don't use base64Encode & Decode all the 
time for every open & save. Most important is I like the added value 
now & especialy now that I have the beta version of an MTML Notebook 
for Mac X ready. As soon as I create an example document I'll make it 
available for testing. Let me know off list if anyone is interested in 
seeing & beta testing the first beta of this three year old project.

Mark


From doug at webcrossing.com  Sun Feb  1 20:28:59 2004
From: doug at webcrossing.com (Doug Lerner)
Date: Mon, 02 Feb 2004 10:28:59 +0900
Subject: Going crazy with closing a stack
In-Reply-To: <61AA642E-551C-11D8-9D74-000A95DA60FA@adelphia.net>
Message-ID: <BC43D6EB.25078%doug@webcrossing.com>

Thanks for your note, Tom.

Unfortunately, I can't move this stuff into the startup and shutdown
handlers because this is just one of several stacks that are open while
running the app and doesn't take place at shutdown.

doug

On 2/2/04 10:08 AM, "Thomas McGrath III" <3mcgrath at adelphia.net> wrote:

> Doug,
> 
> I was having problems with the closeStack as well and it seems everyone
> said it must be something I was doing. Well, usually it is.;-)
> 
> But once I put my close down stuff into the on shutDown and my start up
> stuff into on StartUp everything now gets set and handled and works
> great.
> 
> It seems to me, since you can put closeStack in a stack and in a
> substack and elsewhere that it may not be as pure as is stated. I mean
> startup is just that and only goes off on startup and shutdown is just
> that and only goes off on shutdown. But preOpenStack and OpenStack and
> closestackrequest etc. seem to be upwardly mobile. I mean they work
> best handling upstream stuff.
> 
> Of course I haven't a clue and will probably get reamed but I tell you
> once I moved my stuff into the startup and shutdown handlers they
> finally got called as expected and things then worked great. One
> problem though, I could not debug the startup in the IDE for some
> reason. I put in a break and it never showed but in the standalone
> things were smooth.
> 
> FWIW
> 
> Tom
> 
> On Feb 1, 2004, at 6:31 PM, Doug Lerner wrote:
> 
>> On 2/2/04 7:44 AM, "Frank Leahy" <frank at backtalk.com> wrote:
>> 
>>> 
>>> On Sunday, February 1, 2004, at 10:02  PM,
>>> use-revolution-request at lists.runrev.com wrote:
>>> 
>>>> A stack with a card containing 1500 controls takes about 10 minutes
>>>> to
>>>> close - on my G4 Powerbook with 667 MHz.
>>> 
>>> If you are doing something with those controls when you close the
>>> stack
>>> (e.g. moving them, or resetting any values), that can take a very long
>>> time.
>>> 
>>> Either way, try setting lock screen and lock messages in your
>>> closeStack handler and see if that speeds things up.
>> 
>> My problem doesn't have anything to do with excessive controls. There
>> are
>> just two in the stack. I am sure the closeStack handler itself is just
>> not
>> being run, even when manually closing the stack. The
>> revCloseVideoGrabber
>> isn't happening, which is what got me started on this.
>> 
>> doug
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> use-revolution mailing list
>> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>> 
>> 
> 
> Thomas J. McGrath III
> SCS
> 1000 Killarney Dr.
> Pittsburgh, PA 15234
> 412-885-8541
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution


From doug at webcrossing.com  Sun Feb  1 20:52:43 2004
From: doug at webcrossing.com (Doug Lerner)
Date: Mon, 02 Feb 2004 10:52:43 +0900
Subject: revInitializeVideoGrabber questions
Message-ID: <BC43DC7B.25086%doug@webcrossing.com>



(1) In the docs, the revInitializeVideoGrabber command has just two
parameters, as in

revInitializeVideoGrabber "qt",iRect

However, in the actual sample stack provided there are three parameters, as
in

revInitializeVideoGrabber short name of this stack,"qt",iRect


What exactly is that first parameter used for?

(2) How can you detect that revInitializeVideoGrabber has been called and
thus does not need to be called again?

Thanks,


doug


From jacque at hyperactivesw.com  Sun Feb  1 20:56:09 2004
From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay)
Date: Sun, 01 Feb 2004 19:56:09 -0600
Subject: Going crazy with closing a stack
In-Reply-To: <BC43B82D.25037%doug@webcrossing.com>
References: <BC43B82D.25037%doug@webcrossing.com>
Message-ID: <401DAE39.8070805@hyperactivesw.com>

On 2/1/04 5:17 PM, Doug Lerner wrote:

> I know the local closeStack is not getting handled for other reasons though.
> For example, "false" is not get put into recordvideo and
> revCloseVideoGrabber is not getting called.

Is there another closeStack handler in the hierarchy in front of this 
one? That's usually the only thing that blocks a system message.

-- 
Jacqueline Landman Gay         |     jacque at hyperactivesw.com
HyperActive Software           |     http://www.hyperactivesw.com


From doug at webcrossing.com  Sun Feb  1 21:05:39 2004
From: doug at webcrossing.com (Doug Lerner)
Date: Mon, 02 Feb 2004 11:05:39 +0900
Subject: Going crazy with closing a stack
In-Reply-To: <401DAE39.8070805@hyperactivesw.com>
Message-ID: <BC43DF83.25097%doug@webcrossing.com>

On 2/2/04 10:56 AM, "J. Landman Gay" <jacque at hyperactivesw.com> wrote:

> On 2/1/04 5:17 PM, Doug Lerner wrote:
> 
>> I know the local closeStack is not getting handled for other reasons though.
>> For example, "false" is not get put into recordvideo and
>> revCloseVideoGrabber is not getting called.
> 
> Is there another closeStack handler in the hierarchy in front of this
> one? That's usually the only thing that blocks a system message.

I don't see how there could possibly be. This is a substack and inside the
substack's script there is the closeStack handler. And I am clicking on the
close button in the title bar of the stack itself to close it. So it seems
like everything should be local to this stack, shouldn't it?



doug


From jacque at hyperactivesw.com  Sun Feb  1 21:07:50 2004
From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay)
Date: Sun, 01 Feb 2004 20:07:50 -0600
Subject: closeStack and the message path question
In-Reply-To: <BC434B67.24FB4%doug@webcrossing.com>
References: <BC434B67.24FB4%doug@webcrossing.com>
Message-ID: <401DB0F6.8070405@hyperactivesw.com>

On 2/1/04 9:33 AM, Doug Lerner wrote:

> I have a stack, and a substack with the following handlers in it:
> 
> stack
>     closeStackRequest
>     closeStack
> 
>     substack
>         closeStack
> 
> 
> Since the substack does not have its own closeStackRequest it seems to be
> taking the one from the parent stack.
> 
> But after the parent stack's closeStackRequest is done, the closeStack that
> apepars to get executed is the closeStack handler in the parent stack,
> rather than the one in the substack.
> 
> Is that the way it's supposed to work?

It depends on which one you are closing.

Do you use the debugger much to trace through this sort of stuff? That's 
one of the best ways to see what is going on with the message path. 
Place a breakpoint in a script close to the origin of the action 
sequence (like in the above closeStackRequest handler, for example) and 
then use "Step Into" repeatedly to see which handlers get triggered and 
in what order.

-- 
Jacqueline Landman Gay         |     jacque at hyperactivesw.com
HyperActive Software           |     http://www.hyperactivesw.com


From lists at mangomultimedia.com  Sun Feb  1 21:15:11 2004
From: lists at mangomultimedia.com (Trevor DeVore)
Date: Sun, 1 Feb 2004 19:15:11 -0700
Subject: Compilers?
In-Reply-To: <9545CD24-550A-11D8-BA8E-000A9567A3E6@swcp.com>
References: <9545CD24-550A-11D8-BA8E-000A9567A3E6@swcp.com>
Message-ID: <A1764486-5525-11D8-90AB-000A956C462A@mangomultimedia.com>

On Feb 1, 2004, at 4:01 PM, Dar Scott wrote:

> What compilers are you folks using for what platforms (from what 
> platforms) for making externals?
>
> (Other comments?  Recommendations?  Etc.)

I use XCode for OS X and Visual C++ .Net for Windows.  I didn't really 
need the .Net but that was what was available at the stores when I 
bought a compiler last month.

XCode works great for my needs and ever since Alex posted the tip on 
debugging externals with XCode I have been in heaven.  Tracking down 
bugs is pretty easy now.

I don't have anything for OS 9 since the only two programs I have seen 
that can compile an external for Revolution are Code Warrior or MPW.  
MPW seems like more work than I have time for to figure out and Code 
Warrior costs $500 if you want to use the external in a commercial 
product.


-- 
Trevor DeVore
Blue Mango Multimedia
trevor at mangomultimedia.com


From 3mcgrath at adelphia.net  Sun Feb  1 21:20:44 2004
From: 3mcgrath at adelphia.net (Thomas McGrath III)
Date: Sun, 1 Feb 2004 21:20:44 -0500
Subject: Going crazy with closing a stack
In-Reply-To: <BC43DF83.25097%doug@webcrossing.com>
References: <BC43DF83.25097%doug@webcrossing.com>
Message-ID: <67A036D6-5526-11D8-9D74-000A95DA60FA@adelphia.net>


On Feb 1, 2004, at 9:05 PM, Doug Lerner wrote:
>
> I don't see how there could possibly be. This is a substack and inside 
> the
> substack's script there is the closeStack handler.


Doug, that was exactly what I had. A closeStack in a substack that I 
wanted to work when I closed the substack but instead I "think" the 
main stack was grabbing the closeStack and not the substack even though 
the closestack  message was 'local' to the substack.

It is like it goes down to the mainstack 'before' it can get to the 
substack which 'seems' like it should be received before the mainstack 
gets it.

I wish that there was a closeSubStack handler that would work locally 
from the substack it is in. I could really make use of that.

Instead, in my main stack's closeStack I had to do a lot of name 
handling:
in main stack
on closeStack
if the name of this stack is "Main whatever" then
--do main stack stuff
else
--do substack stuff
end if

Tom
> doug
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>
>

Thomas J. McGrath III
SCS
1000 Killarney Dr.
Pittsburgh, PA 15234
412-885-8541


From joe.gardner at nwa.com  Sun Feb  1 21:30:21 2004
From: joe.gardner at nwa.com (Gardner, Joseph A)
Date: Mon, 2 Feb 2004 11:30:21 +0900
Subject: The card is grey on printing!!
Message-ID: <CF18E340C73DB74C930BB2473A7F5362239022@AMTYOK01.pad.nwa.com>

Jan and Fran?ois,

I'm also having this problem when printing a field from OSX. Here's my button script:

on mouseUp
  put the backgroundColor of cd fld "FileContents" into tBC
  set the backgroundColor of cd fld "FileContents" to white
  revPrintField ("field" && quote & "FileContents" & quote)
  set the backgroundColor of cd fld "FileContents" to tBC
end mouseUp

The field _still_ prints in a gray rectangle. I checked the button syntax by setting the field to BLACK and while the field flashes black for a second while the print command runs, the printout is _still_ black text on a gray background. Is this a bug? Any advice on how to get the field to print black text on a pure white background?

TIA...

joe.

<previously>

--- Fran?ois Cuneo <francois.cuneo at cuk.ch> wrote:
> Hello everybody!
> 
> When I print a card with 2 fields (text black on
> background white), the
> printing zone is grey.
> 
> And the printing zone is with a big margin on top
> and another big on left
> 
> Why?
> 
> Amicalement
> Fran?ois
> 

Bonjour Fran?ois,

I guess you're printing from Windows or *nix ?
The default bakcgroundcolor of the cards on those
systems is gray instead of white, and Rev's printing
is WYSIWYG for that color ;-)

Put the following before your print command
  put the backgroundcolor of this stack into tBC
  set the backgroundcolor of this stack to white
and the following after your print command
  set the backgroundcolor of this stack to tBC

Hope this helped,

Jan Schenkel.

</previously>

From erikhans08 at yahoo.com  Sun Feb  1 22:37:47 2004
From: erikhans08 at yahoo.com (erik hansen)
Date: Sun, 1 Feb 2004 19:37:47 -0800 (PST)
Subject: FlashMX and Runtime Revolution
In-Reply-To: <opr2om2uwn7hj683@smtp.wanadoo.fr>
Message-ID: <20040202033747.2939.qmail@web61108.mail.yahoo.com>

--- "opus.species at wanadoo.fr"
<opus.species at wanadoo.fr> wrote:
> >> You can embedd in revolution a web browser
> with altbrowser.dll from altuit.
> Within this box you can display a flash movie.
> >
> > how many minutes max?

> For me hours...
> 
> But in fact i have a flash website made from
> hundredth of small files (my 
> biggest file is 120 kO). I display this flash
> site within a revolution box.
> 
> For me that's much better than displaying
> ordinary rev fields.
> 
> You can also display flash movies through a
> quicktime player object, but 
> you are limited to the version of flash
> supported by Quicktime.
> 
> Displaying through a browser object you are
> limited to the version of 
> flash installed in Internet Explorer. If you
> upgrade your flash player to 
> 2004MX, you will play 2004MX !
> 
> You can give a test downloading altBrowser.dll
> from www.altuit.com ; there 
> is a rev browser on the site ; open this rev
> browser and try to play your 
> flash movie.
> 
> Of course you need in Flash to export your
> movie in an htmlfile within 
> witch the swf file is embedded.
> 
> I guess that the only limitation of this
> solution is a memory one because 
> you have to run in the same time revolution +
> (embedded internet explorer) 
> + flash plugin.
> I am sure that on a winXP computer with 128 MO
> RAM it is ok.
> On a win98 computer with 64 MO RAM it works but
> not very fast.

thanks for the information.

any caveats for Windows QuickTime?

Erik Hansen



=====
erik at erikhansen.org    http://www.erikhansen.org

__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free web site building tool. Try it!
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From erikhans08 at yahoo.com  Sun Feb  1 22:48:58 2004
From: erikhans08 at yahoo.com (erik hansen)
Date: Sun, 1 Feb 2004 19:48:58 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Quicktime in Windows: best way to go?
In-Reply-To: <BC4355C5.24FC4%doug@webcrossing.com>
Message-ID: <20040202034858.62407.qmail@web61106.mail.yahoo.com>


is Quicktime in Windows the best way to go
for crossplatform apps? Windows only apps?

http://www.apple.com/quicktime/
says that you can make QT apps in Mac,
then run them in Windows. there was some
discussion about this and i did get recent
help, but am still not sure about how
best to run RunRev MIDI apps on Windows.

thanks,

Erik Hansen



=====
erik at erikhansen.org    http://www.erikhansen.org

__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free web site building tool. Try it!
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From erikhans08 at yahoo.com  Sun Feb  1 22:53:04 2004
From: erikhans08 at yahoo.com (erik hansen)
Date: Sun, 1 Feb 2004 19:53:04 -0800 (PST)
Subject: List etiquette suggestion
In-Reply-To: <WorldClient-F200402010122.AA22150067@unitz.ca>
Message-ID: <20040202035304.87320.qmail@web61103.mail.yahoo.com>

--- "shaosean at unitz.ca" <shaosean at unitz.ca>
wrote:
> i'd prefer if people would turn off their sigs
> on lists, as well as 
> trimming off the added list sig.. sometimes the
> sigs are bigger than the 
> actual message...

i like to collect the websites of the list
users and they change constantly,
so i like sigs.

=====
erik at erikhansen.org    http://www.erikhansen.org

__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free web site building tool. Try it!
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From jacque at hyperactivesw.com  Sun Feb  1 22:55:56 2004
From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay)
Date: Sun, 01 Feb 2004 21:55:56 -0600
Subject: Going crazy with closing a stack
In-Reply-To: <67A036D6-5526-11D8-9D74-000A95DA60FA@adelphia.net>
References: <BC43DF83.25097%doug@webcrossing.com>
	<67A036D6-5526-11D8-9D74-000A95DA60FA@adelphia.net>
Message-ID: <401DCA4C.2030807@hyperactivesw.com>

On 2/1/04 8:20 PM, Thomas McGrath III wrote:

> 
> On Feb 1, 2004, at 9:05 PM, Doug Lerner wrote:
> 
>>
>> I don't see how there could possibly be. This is a substack and inside 
>> the
>> substack's script there is the closeStack handler.
> 
> 
> 
> Doug, that was exactly what I had. A closeStack in a substack that I 
> wanted to work when I closed the substack but instead I "think" the main 
> stack was grabbing the closeStack and not the substack even though the 
> closestack  message was 'local' to the substack.

If that's true, then it sounds like a bug. I just made a simple set of 
test stacks, though, and I couldn't reproduce the behavior. There must 
be something else going on.

My main stack has one stack handler:

on closeStack
  answer the target
end closeStack

Substack has one stack handler:

on closeStack
  put "closing sub"
end closeStack

I click the closebox in the substack and "closing sub" appears in the 
message box. I never get an answer dialog.

-- 
Jacqueline Landman Gay         |     jacque at hyperactivesw.com
HyperActive Software           |     http://www.hyperactivesw.com


From shaosean at unitz.ca  Sun Feb  1 22:55:48 2004
From: shaosean at unitz.ca (shaosean at unitz.ca)
Date: Sun, 01 Feb 2004 22:55:48 -0500
Subject: [ANN] libMp3 v0.5.0 (dev)
Message-ID: <WorldClient-F200402012255.AA55480131@unitz.ca>

I have no idea if anyone is even going to find this library useful or 
not, but I'm working on a library to do "stuff" with MP3 files. The 
current build only reads in ID3 v1.x tags, but I'm going to be adding in 
writing for the next release, as well as ID3 v2.x tags (which will be 
fun)..

Depending on what else I can find to do with MP3's there may not be much 
else to this library, in which case I'll rename it to libId3 (no hidden 
Doom easter egg though ;-)

-Sean
http://shaosean.tk/

ps.. go the website above, and click on "development"


From erikhans08 at yahoo.com  Sun Feb  1 22:59:57 2004
From: erikhans08 at yahoo.com (erik hansen)
Date: Sun, 1 Feb 2004 19:59:57 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Quicktime in Windows: best way to go?
Message-ID: <20040202035957.88489.qmail@web61103.mail.yahoo.com>


is Quicktime in Windows the best way to go
for crossplatform apps? Windows only apps?

http://www.apple.com/quicktime/
says that you can make QT apps in Mac,
then run them in Windows. there was some
discussion about this and i did get recent
replies, but am still not sure about how
best to run RunRev MIDI apps on Windows.

thanks,

Erik Hansen

=====
erik at erikhansen.org    http://www.erikhansen.org

__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free web site building tool. Try it!
http://webhosting.yahoo.com/ps/sb/

From doug at webcrossing.com  Sun Feb  1 23:02:27 2004
From: doug at webcrossing.com (Doug Lerner)
Date: Mon, 02 Feb 2004 13:02:27 +0900
Subject: Going crazy with closing a stack
In-Reply-To: <401DCA4C.2030807@hyperactivesw.com>
Message-ID: <BC43FAE3.250DA%doug@webcrossing.com>

On 2/2/04 12:55 PM, "J. Landman Gay" <jacque at hyperactivesw.com> wrote:

> On 2/1/04 8:20 PM, Thomas McGrath III wrote:
> 
>> 
>> On Feb 1, 2004, at 9:05 PM, Doug Lerner wrote:
>> 
>>> 
>>> I don't see how there could possibly be. This is a substack and inside
>>> the
>>> substack's script there is the closeStack handler.
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> Doug, that was exactly what I had. A closeStack in a substack that I
>> wanted to work when I closed the substack but instead I "think" the main
>> stack was grabbing the closeStack and not the substack even though the
>> closestack  message was 'local' to the substack.
> 
> If that's true, then it sounds like a bug. I just made a simple set of
> test stacks, though, and I couldn't reproduce the behavior. There must
> be something else going on.
> 
> My main stack has one stack handler:
> 
> on closeStack
> answer the target
> end closeStack
> 
> Substack has one stack handler:
> 
> on closeStack
> put "closing sub"
> end closeStack
> 
> I click the closebox in the substack and "closing sub" appears in the
> message box. I never get an answer dialog.

That's what I want to happen here too. :)

doug at agh!


From shaosean at unitz.ca  Sun Feb  1 23:06:11 2004
From: shaosean at unitz.ca (shaosean at unitz.ca)
Date: Sun, 01 Feb 2004 23:06:11 -0500
Subject: List etiquette suggestion  [almost a flame]
In-Reply-To: <20040202035304.87320.qmail@web61103.mail.yahoo.com>
References: <WorldClient-F200402010122.AA22150067@unitz.ca>
	<20040202035304.87320.qmail@web61103.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <WorldClient-F200402012306.AA06110134@unitz.ca>

you increased my intial message from 3 lines to 24 lines by including 
the whole of my message, plus only 3 lines for yours (so far, doing 
okay), but then there's a total of 11 lines of just sigs.. *sigh* i do 
realize that your sig is small, and the other 2 are auto sigs, but you 
can see how that just ends up wasting tons of bandwidth, plus my hard 
drive space, plus my time (having to scan through it all)..

this isn't a personal attack, i've seen much worse sigs and those 
stupid "if message this isn't for you, yadda yadda" bs auto sigs.. 
you're sending to a mailing list, i don't think it matters..

anyways, that's enough of a "rant" from me, i'll go back to the "pen and 
paper" world that i spewed forth from ;-)

-Sean

ps.. original message was "snipped"
pss.. that's something else, please only quote what's needed, not the 
whole dang message..


From sarahr at genesearch.com.au  Sun Feb  1 23:11:31 2004
From: sarahr at genesearch.com.au (Sarah Reichelt)
Date: Mon, 2 Feb 2004 14:11:31 +1000
Subject: age calculator 
In-Reply-To: <002201c3e78e$ce2bdfe0$8ebc2952@PATRIOT>
References: <002201c3e78e$ce2bdfe0$8ebc2952@PATRIOT>
Message-ID: <E1F3D459-5535-11D8-A2F8-0003937A97B8@genesearch.com.au>

> It wont calculate my age from thease two inputs : date of birth  
> 8/2/1961 , assesment date 30/1/2004
Works for me. I get a result of 42 years 11 months 22 days which looks 
about right.
>
> and how do parameters work , where does param(1) and param(2) come from
Parameters are the extra bits of information sent to a handler or 
function
e.g. answer "Hello"
"Hello" is the parameter.
Usually, the first line of a handler lists what parameters it is going 
to get, but if you aren't sure how many you will get, or don't want to 
do it this way, you can find the parameters inside your handler using 
the param function.
For example, supposing I had a function that multiplied two numbers 
together (I know - there is no way you would want to do this, but it 
will do for testing)

function doMultiply num1, num2
   return num1 * num2
end doMultiply

In the first line, I showed that I was expecting two parameters, which 
I was going to label num1 & num2.

The same thing could have been written like this:

function doMultiply
   put param(1) into num1
   put param(2) into num2
   return num1 * num2
end doMultiply

You can also get the parameter count so that we could write this 
function to allow for any number of parameters:

function doMultiply
   put param(1) into tNum
   repeat with x = 2 to paramCount()
     multiply tNum by param(x)
   end repeat
   return tNum
end doMultiply

In this script, both strategies are used, which is not commonly done. 
The parameters are labelled initially, but hose labels are never used.

>
> if centurycutoff  is set to 35 why does it work for dates from 1970 
> onwards only
This is a scripting error. The start & end years are extracted from the 
dates, so if you entered 61 and 04, the difference works out as -58. 
The difference in years is then correctly calculated from the date 
items (which work out the correct years based on the century cutoff) 
but the incorrect answer is put into Gbox. Change the 2nd last line to 
read "put diffan into Gbox" and it will work.
>
> I am using version RR 1.1.1. (it was a freebie on a magazine) full 
> version aparently
I don't see anything in the script that wouldn't work with 1.1.1
>
> oh and one more question please why have a correction and add it to 
> item 3 of enddate?
The program gets the days, months & years of each date and subtracts 
them giving the difference in days, months & years. If the start date 
is the 22nd and the end date is the 4th, then the difference in days is 
4 - 22 or -18. To convert this to a positive number, the script 
converts the end date from say the 4th April to 34th May - a 
nonsensical date, but one which allows the subtraction to work. The 
same process is used for months.
>
> many thanks from a novice
>
> Douglas

Cheers,
Sarah
sarahr at genesearch.com.au
http://www.troz.net/Rev/


From erikhans08 at yahoo.com  Sun Feb  1 23:12:41 2004
From: erikhans08 at yahoo.com (erik hansen)
Date: Sun, 1 Feb 2004 20:12:41 -0800 (PST)
Subject: wait with messages...
In-Reply-To: <GGEOJBEEGFHLDOFIMMPIEEIDFOAA.chipp@chipp.com>
Message-ID: <20040202041241.61630.qmail@web61107.mail.yahoo.com>

--- Chipp Walters <chipp at chipp.com> wrote:

> YIH (yep it helps)

you talkin Tex ageein.

=====
erik at erikhansen.org    http://www.erikhansen.org

__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free web site building tool. Try it!
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From cassj at earthlink.net  Sun Feb  1 23:14:32 2004
From: cassj at earthlink.net (James Cass)
Date: Sun, 1 Feb 2004 23:14:32 -0500
Subject: How to Remove Stack's Shadow
In-Reply-To: <13AB3B82-5512-11D8-BB4F-003065F00EF2@mac.com>
References: <13AB3B82-5512-11D8-BB4F-003065F00EF2@mac.com>
Message-ID: <4DAFB42A-5536-11D8-9B86-000393738BF6@earthlink.net>

Glen -

Yes.  It works for me on main and sub stacks.  I'm running MacOSX 
Panther (10.3.2).

-James


On Feb 1, 2004, at 6:55 PM, Bojsza wrote:

> James,
>
> I have tried this and it doesn't seem to work? Does it work for you?
>
> Glen
>
> > Glen -
>
> > Try this:     set the shadow of this stack to false
> > I found this by looking up "shadow" in the Transcript Dictionary.
> > Hope this is what you needed.
>
> > - James _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>


From jacque at hyperactivesw.com  Sun Feb  1 23:24:29 2004
From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay)
Date: Sun, 01 Feb 2004 22:24:29 -0600
Subject: Going crazy with closing a stack
In-Reply-To: <BC43FAE3.250DA%doug@webcrossing.com>
References: <BC43FAE3.250DA%doug@webcrossing.com>
Message-ID: <401DD0FD.2030005@hyperactivesw.com>

On 2/1/04 10:02 PM, Doug Lerner wrote:

>>I click the closebox in the substack and "closing sub" appears in the
>>message box. I never get an answer dialog.
> 
> 
> That's what I want to happen here too. :)

So there must be something else happening. Comment out all lines in both 
stack's closestack handlers, with the exception of a single line in each 
(pick one or write one that can stand independently and doesn't rely on 
anything else.) If it works okay, then start adding pieces of the 
handler back in until you reproduce the problem. Then tell us what that 
piece is.

-- 
Jacqueline Landman Gay         |     jacque at hyperactivesw.com
HyperActive Software           |     http://www.hyperactivesw.com


From doug at webcrossing.com  Sun Feb  1 23:36:10 2004
From: doug at webcrossing.com (Doug Lerner)
Date: Mon, 02 Feb 2004 13:36:10 +0900
Subject: Going crazy with closing a stack
In-Reply-To: <401DD0FD.2030005@hyperactivesw.com>
Message-ID: <BC4402CA.250E9%doug@webcrossing.com>

On 2/2/04 1:24 PM, "J. Landman Gay" <jacque at hyperactivesw.com> wrote:

> On 2/1/04 10:02 PM, Doug Lerner wrote:
> 
>>> I click the closebox in the substack and "closing sub" appears in the
>>> message box. I never get an answer dialog.
>> 
>> 
>> That's what I want to happen here too. :)
> 
> So there must be something else happening. Comment out all lines in both
> stack's closestack handlers, with the exception of a single line in each
> (pick one or write one that can stand independently and doesn't rely on
> anything else.) If it works okay, then start adding pieces of the
> handler back in until you reproduce the problem. Then tell us what that
> piece is.

That's why I put the "answer" command as the first line of the closeStack
hander - to see if the handler was being called or not. But it's not. Except
sometimes. And the sometimes seems to have something to do with the state of
the video grabber window.

Are there any extra commands that can tell us whether the video grabber
window is even present or not?

Also, what is that first (and undocumented) parameter to
revInitializeVideoGrabber, as in the video stack example:

revInitializeVideoGrabber the short name of this stack,"qt",iRect

for? The docs only show 2 parameters.

I think both these issues are connected somehow because I don't have similar
problems when closing other stack windows.

doug




From hershbp at realtorsgroup.us  Sun Feb  1 23:41:40 2004
From: hershbp at realtorsgroup.us (hershrev)
Date: Sun, 1 Feb 2004 23:41:40 -0500
Subject: find
In-Reply-To: <20040201082911.58004.qmail@web60509.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <17B12CB8-553A-11D8-9071-0030654C1E62@realtorsgroup.us>

Ok , that did the trick . Thanks . Now the question how can i specify 
the search only lets say in column 2 ? And also how do I  auto finish 
the equivalent matches , lets say there is 3 names 1, Goldberg 2 
Goldstein, Goodman. now when I type it should auto finish , which means 
when typed gold.. it should enter a field ( in a little window or 
field) three options and by continuing as being continued the unmatched 
should disappear and by exiting the field by on closeField go to the 
correct line ?
Many Thanks. Hershrev.
On Sunday, February 1, 2004, at 03:29 AM, Jan Schenkel wrote:

> --- hershrev <hershbp at realtorsgroup.us> wrote:
>>
>>
>> Hi,
>> I'm trying to make a find field search in a Table
>> field (according the
>> instructions in the doc.) some how it doesn't work.
>> example: I have a closed curser query result list in
>> a table field and
>> made a search field to search according the text
>> entered it should go
>> to the correct line and select it.
>> For some reason it doesn't work (ignore find , is
>> off)
>>
>> Thanks Hershrev
>>
>
> Hi Herhsrev,
>
> I made a quick test, and it worked for me ; so I guess
> something is different between our stacks :-)
>
> My setup :
> - field 1 contains the full name of the characters in
> the greek alphabet, three per row
> - field 2 is where I type my search string
> - button 1 has the following script
>     on mouseUp
>       find field 2 in field 1
>       put the foundChunk
>     end mouseUp
>
> ==> When I type "Delta" in field 2 and click the
> button, it displays a square rectangle around the word
> "Delta" in the table field, and puts the place where
> it found it into the message box.
>
> If you continue to have problems, don't hesitate to
> post a sample stack somewhere on the web and notify
> the list ; there are plenty of smart people who would
> loe to take a look at it :-)
>
> Hope this helped,
>
> Jan Schenkel.
>
> =====
> "As we grow older, we grow both wiser and more foolish at the same 
> time."  (La Rochefoucauld)
>
> __________________________________
> Do you Yahoo!?
> Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free web site building tool. Try it!
> http://webhosting.yahoo.com/ps/sb/
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>


From chipp at chipp.com  Mon Feb  2 00:00:28 2004
From: chipp at chipp.com (Chipp Walters)
Date: Sun, 1 Feb 2004 23:00:28 -0600
Subject: OT wait with messages...
In-Reply-To: <20040202041241.61630.qmail@web61107.mail.yahoo.com>
References: <20040202041241.61630.qmail@web61107.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <B806C8AA-553C-11D8-B67E-000A95F078B6@chipp.com>

I reckon.

> --- Chipp Walters <chipp at chipp.com> wrote:
>
>> YIH (yep it helps)
>
> you talkin Tex ageein.
>
> =====
> erik at erikhansen.org    http://www.erikhansen.org
>


From squance at elkvalley.net  Mon Feb  2 00:05:40 2004
From: squance at elkvalley.net (David Squance)
Date: Sun, 1 Feb 2004 22:05:40 -0700
Subject: The card is grey on printing!!
In-Reply-To: <CF18E340C73DB74C930BB2473A7F5362239022@AMTYOK01.pad.nwa.com>
Message-ID: <l03130304bc4389492fb5@[192.168.1.100]>

I had this same problem, but solved it by going to the colors and patterns
in the card inspector.  I clicked on the square for background in the
'color column', chose crayons from the list and snow from the color
choices.  After that the grey was gone from the card.  This situation may
be a little different in that I was printing cards, not fields.
Dave

>Jan and Fran?ois,
>
>I'm also having this problem when printing a field from OSX. Here's my
>button script:
>
>on mouseUp
>  put the backgroundColor of cd fld "FileContents" into tBC
>  set the backgroundColor of cd fld "FileContents" to white
>  revPrintField ("field" && quote & "FileContents" & quote)
>  set the backgroundColor of cd fld "FileContents" to tBC
>end mouseUp
>
>The field _still_ prints in a gray rectangle. I checked the button syntax
>by setting the field to BLACK and while the field flashes black for a
>second while the print command runs, the printout is _still_ black text on
>a gray background. Is this a bug? Any advice on how to get the field to
>print black text on a pure white background?
>
>TIA...
>
>joe.



From ambassador at fourthworld.com  Mon Feb  2 00:41:06 2004
From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin)
Date: Sun, 01 Feb 2004 21:41:06 -0800
Subject: List etiquette suggestion  [almost a flame]
In-Reply-To: <WorldClient-F200402012306.AA06110134@unitz.ca>
Message-ID: <BC4322F1.3C72D%ambassador@fourthworld.com>

shaosean at unitz.ca wrote:

> i'll go back to the "pen and
> paper" world that i spewed forth from ;-)

Please don't, or we'd have no libSMTP or other cool tools from your presence
in the ether. :)

-- 
 Richard Gaskin 
 Fourth World Media Corporation
 ___________________________________________________________
 Ambassador at FourthWorld.com       http://www.FourthWorld.com


From doug at webcrossing.com  Mon Feb  2 00:54:05 2004
From: doug at webcrossing.com (Doug Lerner)
Date: Mon, 02 Feb 2004 14:54:05 +0900
Subject: Going crazy with closing a stack
In-Reply-To: <401DD0FD.2030005@hyperactivesw.com>
Message-ID: <BC44150D.25107%doug@webcrossing.com>

I'm spending too much time on this one crazy closeStack message problem, so
for the meantime I've put in the following work-around which is at least
stable:

* I have a button on the parent stack that is supposed to open/close the
video grabber window-and-stack. In there I put:

    chatVideoPreviewOff
    revCloseVideoGrabber
    close stack vgName

The closeChat message is still not being sent to the video grabber stack,
but the stack closes.

* In the video grabber stack I added

on closeStackRequest
  -- block this stack from being closed from the window close button
end closeStackRequest

This blocks the stack from being manually closed, which is a little grody,
but since the openStack handler doesn't get called reliably there is no
choice. I must have users close the stack via the button in the parent
stack.

Interesting enough, even with this closeStackRequest handler here, the
"close stack vgName" command above *does* close the stack. I wonder why the
closeStackRequest doesn't block that as well. Strange all around. But at
least this combination works - you can open and close the video grabber
stack as much as you want by checking/unchecking the box in the parent
stack.

I'll come back to this issue again at another time.

Thanks for all your suggestions. And if anybody has any extra ideas, please
let me know!

Thanks,

doug


From frank at backtalk.com  Mon Feb  2 02:57:47 2004
From: frank at backtalk.com (Frank Leahy)
Date: Mon, 2 Feb 2004 07:57:47 +0000
Subject: Going crazy with closing a stack
In-Reply-To: <20040202023038.10F7A93009E@mail.runrev.com>
Message-ID: <7DDE93B8-5555-11D8-A8C6-000A9580FCCE@backtalk.com>

Doug,

  I'm guessing that other stacks of yours are getting closeStack 
messages, right?  If so then I'm pretty sure you're not getting a 
closeStack because of something you're doing.  Maybe you forgot to pass 
menuPick, or pass some other message that is keep RunRev from sending 
you the closeStack messages.

Whatever it is, at this point I'd create a new stack, place just this 
controller you're trying to use on it -- with no other scripts in the 
stack except the closeStack -- and see if a closeStack handler gets 
called.  Then add your other scripts one at a time (or a bunch at a 
time) until you see it stop getting called again.

It's great to use the list as a sounding board, but sometimes the only 
way to do debugging is to return to a zero baseline and actually do the 
debugging.

Good luck,
-- Frank

On Monday, February 2, 2004, at 02:30  AM, 
use-revolution-request at lists.runrev.com wrote:

> Thanks for your note, Tom.
>
> Unfortunately, I can't move this stuff into the startup and shutdown
> handlers because this is just one of several stacks that are open while
> running the app and doesn't take place at shutdown.
>
> doug


From thierry.arbellot at wanadoo.fr  Mon Feb  2 04:07:48 2004
From: thierry.arbellot at wanadoo.fr (Thierry Arbellot)
Date: Mon, 2 Feb 2004 10:07:48 +0100
Subject: Compilers?
In-Reply-To: <9545CD24-550A-11D8-BA8E-000A9567A3E6@swcp.com>
Message-ID: <45BE4EC0-555F-11D8-9D40-000A27E40768@wanadoo.fr>

MacOS X : Project Builder
Windows : MS Visual C++ 6
MacOS 9 : Code Warrior 7 (but I don't work anymore on OS 9)

Thierry.

Le Monday, 2 Feb 2004, ? 00:01 Europe/Paris, Dar Scott a ?crit :

> What compilers are you folks using for what platforms (from what 
> platforms) for making externals?
>
> (Other comments?  Recommendations?  Etc.)
>
> Dar Scott
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>


From doug at webcrossing.com  Mon Feb  2 04:53:49 2004
From: doug at webcrossing.com (Doug Lerner)
Date: Mon, 02 Feb 2004 18:53:49 +0900
Subject: Going crazy with closing a stack
In-Reply-To: <7DDE93B8-5555-11D8-A8C6-000A9580FCCE@backtalk.com>
Message-ID: <BC444D3D.25140%doug@webcrossing.com>

That's almost what I ended up doing. Instead of running that stack as a
substack, I made it its own stack and moved all the handlers except for
openStack and closeStack elsewhere.

It seems to be working this way.

Thanks,

dogu

On 2/2/04 4:57 PM, "Frank Leahy" <frank at backtalk.com> wrote:

> Doug,
> 
> I'm guessing that other stacks of yours are getting closeStack
> messages, right?  If so then I'm pretty sure you're not getting a
> closeStack because of something you're doing.  Maybe you forgot to pass
> menuPick, or pass some other message that is keep RunRev from sending
> you the closeStack messages.
> 
> Whatever it is, at this point I'd create a new stack, place just this
> controller you're trying to use on it -- with no other scripts in the
> stack except the closeStack -- and see if a closeStack handler gets
> called.  Then add your other scripts one at a time (or a bunch at a
> time) until you see it stop getting called again.
> 
> It's great to use the list as a sounding board, but sometimes the only
> way to do debugging is to return to a zero baseline and actually do the
> debugging.
> 
> Good luck,
> -- Frank
> 
> On Monday, February 2, 2004, at 02:30  AM,
> use-revolution-request at lists.runrev.com wrote:
> 
>> Thanks for your note, Tom.
>> 
>> Unfortunately, I can't move this stuff into the startup and shutdown
>> handlers because this is just one of several stacks that are open while
>> running the app and doesn't take place at shutdown.
>> 
>> doug
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution


From janschenkel at yahoo.com  Mon Feb  2 05:03:16 2004
From: janschenkel at yahoo.com (Jan Schenkel)
Date: Mon, 2 Feb 2004 02:03:16 -0800 (PST)
Subject: The card is grey on printing!!
In-Reply-To: <CF18E340C73DB74C930BB2473A7F5362239022@AMTYOK01.pad.nwa.com>
Message-ID: <20040202100316.63519.qmail@web60505.mail.yahoo.com>

--- "Gardner, Joseph A" <joe.gardner at nwa.com> wrote:
> Jan and Fran?ois,
> 
> I'm also having this problem when printing a field
> from OSX. Here's my button script:
> 
> on mouseUp
>   put the backgroundColor of cd fld "FileContents"
> into tBC
>   set the backgroundColor of cd fld "FileContents"
> to white
>   revPrintField ("field" && quote & "FileContents" &
> quote)
>   set the backgroundColor of cd fld "FileContents"
> to tBC
> end mouseUp
> 
> The field _still_ prints in a gray rectangle. I
> checked the button syntax by setting the field to
> BLACK and while the field flashes black for a second
> while the print command runs, the printout is
> _still_ black text on a gray background. Is this a
> bug? Any advice on how to get the field to print
> black text on a pure white background?
> 
> TIA...
> 
> joe.
> 

Hi Joe,

The answer I gave should work for those cases when
you're using the 'print' command.
Your case involves the revPrintField command, where
you don't have control over the stack that is used for
printing.

A few questions :
- does this happen in the IDE or only in standalones ?
- if only in standalones, have you let the
distribution builder apply the default colours ?

If it also happens in the IDE, a trip to bugzilla is
in order, I think :-)

Best regards,

Jan Schenkel.

=====
"As we grow older, we grow both wiser and more foolish at the same time."  (La Rochefoucauld)

__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free web site building tool. Try it!
http://webhosting.yahoo.com/ps/sb/

From mcdomi at free.fr  Mon Feb  2 05:15:49 2004
From: mcdomi at free.fr (Dom)
Date: Mon, 2 Feb 2004 11:15:49 +0100
Subject: GoRevnet & LibURL?
In-Reply-To: <BC42E57F.3C6EC%ambassador@fourthworld.com>
Message-ID: <1g8izze.1f1vddz1160r5aM%mcdomi@free.fr>

Richard Gaskin <ambassador at fourthworld.com> wrote:

> - A bug in the engine causes inserted scripts to b removed if the stack
> containing them has its destroyStack property set to true and is closed.  By
> default the destroyStack property of GoRevnet is false -- could something in
> your environment be changing that?

Verified. The destroystack property is set to false.

-- 
Digital photos (nature, garden) : http://cooldomi.free.fr/
Scripting : http://domiscript.free.fr/

From ambassador at fourthworld.com  Mon Feb  2 05:25:19 2004
From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin)
Date: Mon, 02 Feb 2004 02:25:19 -0800
Subject: GoRevnet & LibURL?
In-Reply-To: <1g8izze.1f1vddz1160r5aM%mcdomi@free.fr>
Message-ID: <BC43658F.3C757%ambassador@fourthworld.com>

Dom wrote:

> Richard Gaskin <ambassador at fourthworld.com> wrote:
> 
>> - A bug in the engine causes inserted scripts to b removed if the stack
>> containing them has its destroyStack property set to true and is closed.  By
>> default the destroyStack property of GoRevnet is false -- could something in
>> your environment be changing that?
> 
> Verified. The destroystack property is set to false.

The next things to check would be:

- is the GoRevNet backscript inserted?

- is there a frontscript, backscript, or library handling the linkClicked
message and not passing it?

-- 
 Richard Gaskin 
 Fourth World Media Corporation
 ___________________________________________________________
 Ambassador at FourthWorld.com       http://www.FourthWorld.com


From wouter.abraham at pi.be  Mon Feb  2 05:38:15 2004
From: wouter.abraham at pi.be (Wouter)
Date: Mon, 2 Feb 2004 11:38:15 +0100
Subject: Going crazy with closing a stack
In-Reply-To: <20040202042514.35BA79300A5@mail.runrev.com>
References: <20040202042514.35BA79300A5@mail.runrev.com>
Message-ID: <E89602D2-556B-11D8-A916-003065CC999E@pi.be>


On 02 Feb 2004, at 05:25, use-revolution-request at lists.runrev.com wrote:

> Message: 7
> Date: Mon, 02 Feb 2004 13:02:27 +0900
> From: Doug Lerner <doug at webcrossing.com>
> Subject: Re: Going crazy with closing a stack
> To: "jacque at hyperactivesw.com,How to use Revolution"
> 	<use-revolution at lists.runrev.com>
> Message-ID: <BC43FAE3.250DA%doug at webcrossing.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
>
> On 2/2/04 12:55 PM, "J. Landman Gay" <jacque at hyperactivesw.com> wrote:
>

snip


>>
>> My main stack has one stack handler:
>>
>> on closeStack
>> answer the target
>> end closeStack
>>
>> Substack has one stack handler:
>>
>> on closeStack
>> put "closing sub"
>> end closeStack
>>
>> I click the closebox in the substack and "closing sub" appears in the
>> message box. I never get an answer dialog.
>
> That's what I want to happen here too. :)
>
> doug at agh!
>

Why not use the closeStackRequest message?

Greetings,

WA





From mcdomi at free.fr  Mon Feb  2 05:49:14 2004
From: mcdomi at free.fr (Dom)
Date: Mon, 2 Feb 2004 11:49:14 +0100
Subject: GoRevnet & LibURL?
In-Reply-To: <BC42E57F.3C6EC%ambassador@fourthworld.com>
Message-ID: <1g8j1up.1p73v26c2qqx9M%mcdomi@free.fr>

Worked this morning!

After hitting the "update button"...

for the stacks list: got a "could not retrieve index" alert, but got the
list

for the tips list: ahem they disappeared after I got the revJournal
list!!

revJournal: got it, with the more recent "handy handler#5"

web links: got them


A progress, so, but not perfect ;-)

-- 
Digital photos (nature, garden) : http://cooldomi.free.fr/
Scripting : http://domiscript.free.fr/

From richmond at mail.maclaunch.com  Mon Feb  2 06:21:33 2004
From: richmond at mail.maclaunch.com (Mathewson)
Date: Mon, 02 Feb 2004 06:21:33 -0500
Subject: Richmond "Does" the MetaCard Interface
Message-ID: <web-314089820@mail.maclaunch.com>

Dear xTalk Afficionados,
   Rampaged all over the MetaCard GUI this winter hols - 
download it, try it, write me abusive e-mails...... its on
my website at the "RR GUI HACKS" page....

   Best Regards Richmond Mathewson

__________________________________________________
See Mathewson's software at:

http://members.maclaunch.com/richmond/default.html    and
http://www.runrev.com/Revolution1/developercentral/usercontributions.html
_______________________________________
---------------------------------------------------------------
Great Macintosh Products 
 The MacLaunch Store! http://www.maclaunch.com/cgi-launch/store/agora.cgi
---------------------------------------------------------------

From opus.species at wanadoo.fr  Mon Feb  2 09:20:09 2004
From: opus.species at wanadoo.fr (opus.species at wanadoo.fr)
Date: Mon, 02 Feb 2004 15:20:09 +0100
Subject: Quicktime in Windows: best way to go?
In-Reply-To: <20040202042514.35BA79300A5@mail.runrev.com>
References: <20040202042514.35BA79300A5@mail.runrev.com>
Message-ID: <opr2qx3vzg7hj683@smtp.wanadoo.fr>

> Date: Sun, 1 Feb 2004 19:48:58 -0800 (PST)
> From: erik hansen <erikhans08 at yahoo.com>
> Subject: Quicktime in Windows: best way to go?
> To: How to use Revolution <use-revolution at lists.runrev.com>
> Message-ID: <20040202034858.62407.qmail at web61106.mail.yahoo.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
>
>
> is Quicktime in Windows the best way to go
> for crossplatform apps? Windows only apps?

Quicktime is a good solution for cross platform apps
*IF* you dont need Linux
*IF* your users have administrative rights on their computer (Quicktime is 
not installed by default on Windows computers)
*IF* Apple do not change his license policy of Quicktime suddenly (already 
happens few years ago)

I used Quicktime for Windows apps succesfully for Point of Informations, 
but i had nightmares with widely distributed CD-ROM because my end-users 
didn't know how to install Quicktime, or where not allowed to do it or 
there was some failure in the installation process.

For windows only apps DirectX is a much better solution, but unfortunately 
not supported yet by revolution.

It would be very fine if Revolution could support natively the Flash 
Player, because the flash player displays very well sounds, vector graphic 
animation and digital video and is avalaible on Mac, Windows and Linux.

Claude Lemmel

From rcozens at pon.net  Mon Feb  2 08:31:13 2004
From: rcozens at pon.net (Rob Cozens)
Date: Mon, 2 Feb 2004 06:31:13 -0700
Subject: List field behavior
In-Reply-To: <C3557550-5441-11D8-AB6E-000393A19046@earthlink.net>
References: <C3557550-5441-11D8-AB6E-000393A19046@earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <a05100301bc43ffdbf74f@[66.52.165.190]>

Bob,

>Used: delete line 2 of field x of stack y.  This syntax deletes the 
>line but: put the number of lines of field x of stack y results with 
>3.  Line 2 has no text.
>Same results when empty is used instead of delete.

Using Rev 2.1.2 on Mac OS 9 & X, the results are NOT the same here: 
Put empty leaves a blank line; delete removes the line.  I guess 
Jacque was right about a bug...though I thought you said you were 
working with v2.1, and I'm surprised that kind of an error could 
persist that long.

>>What syntax do you use to add the line?
>
>put text into line 2 of field x of stack y. This puts text into line 2.

Same here.
-- 

Rob Cozens
CCW, Serendipity Software Company
http://www.oenolog.net/who.htm

"And I, which was two fooles, do so grow three;
Who are a little wise, the best fooles bee."

from "The Triple Foole" by John Donne (1572-1631)

From stephenREVOLUTION at barncard.com  Mon Feb  2 10:51:59 2004
From: stephenREVOLUTION at barncard.com (Stephen Quinn Barncard)
Date: Mon, 2 Feb 2004 07:51:59 -0800
Subject: Richmond "Does" the MetaCard Interface
Message-ID: <p06020402bc44223c4103@[192.168.1.102]>

Why is there a swastika on the toolbar?? To contact white supremacists?

>Dear xTalk Afficionados,
>    Rampaged all over the MetaCard GUI this winter hols -
>download it, try it, write me abusive e-mails...... its on
>my website at the "RR GUI HACKS" page....
>
>    Best Regards Richmond Mathewson

From mcdomi at free.fr  Mon Feb  2 12:33:41 2004
From: mcdomi at free.fr (Dom)
Date: Mon, 2 Feb 2004 18:33:41 +0100
Subject: GoRevnet & LibURL?
In-Reply-To: <1g8j1up.1p73v26c2qqx9M%mcdomi@free.fr>
Message-ID: <1g8jite.1nmbxsk1sklomeM%mcdomi@free.fr>

Dom <mcdomi at free.fr> wrote:

> A progress, so, but not perfect ;-)

Doesn't work, again!

It's too Voodoo for me, I give up ;-<

-- 
Digital photos (nature, garden) : http://cooldomi.free.fr/
Scripting : http://domiscript.free.fr/

From mcdomi at free.fr  Mon Feb  2 12:33:46 2004
From: mcdomi at free.fr (Dom)
Date: Mon, 2 Feb 2004 18:33:46 +0100
Subject: GoRevnet & LibURL?
In-Reply-To: <BC43658F.3C757%ambassador@fourthworld.com>
Message-ID: <1g8jiza.eykjnr1qblondM%mcdomi@free.fr>

Richard Gaskin <ambassador at fourthworld.com> wrote:

> - is the GoRevNet backscript inserted?

Ahem, I am not exactly familiar with backscripts/frontscripts... ;-)
 
> - is there a frontscript, backscript, or library handling the linkClicked
> message and not passing it?

As long as I can remember, it worked, nothing was changed since...
No library in particular.

Sure, with the time, a number of files go in the "plugins" folder, with
sometimes unwanted effects ;->


-- 
Digital photos (nature, garden) : http://cooldomi.free.fr/
Scripting : http://domiscript.free.fr/

From ambassador at fourthworld.com  Mon Feb  2 12:43:17 2004
From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin)
Date: Mon, 02 Feb 2004 09:43:17 -0800
Subject: GoRevnet & LibURL?
In-Reply-To: <1g8jiza.eykjnr1qblondM%mcdomi@free.fr>
Message-ID: <BC43CC35.3C79B%ambassador@fourthworld.com>

Dom wrote:

> Richard Gaskin <ambassador at fourthworld.com> wrote:
> 
>> - is the GoRevNet backscript inserted?
> 
> Ahem, I am not exactly familiar with backscripts/frontscripts... ;-)
> 
>> - is there a frontscript, backscript, or library handling the linkClicked
>> message and not passing it?
> 
> As long as I can remember, it worked, nothing was changed since...
> No library in particular.
> 
> Sure, with the time, a number of files go in the "plugins" folder, with
> sometimes unwanted effects ;->

Such effects are minimized if plugins use the good practice of passing
system messages.

-- 
 Richard Gaskin 
 Fourth World Media Corporation
 ___________________________________________________________
 Ambassador at FourthWorld.com       http://www.FourthWorld.com


From janschenkel at yahoo.com  Mon Feb  2 12:56:29 2004
From: janschenkel at yahoo.com (Jan Schenkel)
Date: Mon, 2 Feb 2004 09:56:29 -0800 (PST)
Subject: GoRevnet & LibURL?
In-Reply-To: <1g8jiza.eykjnr1qblondM%mcdomi@free.fr>
Message-ID: <20040202175629.27511.qmail@web60503.mail.yahoo.com>

--- Dom <mcdomi at free.fr> wrote:
> Richard Gaskin <ambassador at fourthworld.com> wrote:
> 
> > - is the GoRevNet backscript inserted?
> 
> Ahem, I am not exactly familiar with
> backscripts/frontscripts... ;-)
>  
> > - is there a frontscript, backscript, or library
> handling the linkClicked
> > message and not passing it?
> 
> As long as I can remember, it worked, nothing was
> changed since...
> No library in particular.
> 
> Sure, with the time, a number of files go in the
> "plugins" folder, with
> sometimes unwanted effects ;->
> 
> 

Hi Dom,

My ISP forces me to get a proxy-configuration file
from a URL, and I can set this in the Internet
preferences on Windows.
However, libURL doesn't seem able to fetch this
information, which is why I have to manually set the
httpProxy before I open up RevNet.

Hope this helped,

Jan Schenkel.

=====
"As we grow older, we grow both wiser and more foolish at the same time."  (La Rochefoucauld)

__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free web site building tool. Try it!
http://webhosting.yahoo.com/ps/sb/

From gizmotron at earthlink.net  Mon Feb  2 13:02:24 2004
From: gizmotron at earthlink.net (Mark Brownell)
Date: Mon, 2 Feb 2004 10:02:24 -0800
Subject: [OT] the first look at MTML, Yeah RunRev!
In-Reply-To: <14DBE07C-551F-11D8-B6F9-000A95859272@earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <F48F67AE-55A9-11D8-8FB6-000A95859272@earthlink.net>

Hi Revolutionaries,

In case anyone is interested in the first look at this, here is a link 
to download site where I will try to sell it later:
http://www.gizmotron.org/intuition/download.html

I would welcome any comments or suggestions. I came to Revolution six 
months ago after realizing that I was never going to get anywhere with 
the current state of Director. All I had was a vision and a lot of 
experimental versions behind me. I tried versions of this in RealBasic, 
VB, and Shockwave. Now, after more than three years, I was able to do 
things with Revolution that I could never do with the other development 
environments.

Sincerly,
Mark Brownell
Gizmotron Graphics


From ambassador at fourthworld.com  Mon Feb  2 13:12:40 2004
From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin)
Date: Mon, 02 Feb 2004 10:12:40 -0800
Subject: GoRevnet & LibURL?
In-Reply-To: <20040202175629.27511.qmail@web60503.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <BC43D318.3C7A4%ambassador@fourthworld.com>

Jan Schenkel wrote:

> My ISP forces me to get a proxy-configuration file
> from a URL, and I can set this in the Internet
> preferences on Windows.
> However, libURL doesn't seem able to fetch this
> information, which is why I have to manually set the
> httpProxy before I open up RevNet.

Isn't there a proxy setting in Rev's Prefs?

-- 
 Richard Gaskin 
 Fourth World Media Corporation
 ___________________________________________________________
 Ambassador at FourthWorld.com       http://www.FourthWorld.com


From jackass at bestweb.net  Mon Feb  2 13:13:44 2004
From: jackass at bestweb.net (michael)
Date: Mon, 02 Feb 2004 13:13:44 -0500
Subject: Quicktime in Windows: best way to go?
In-Reply-To: <20040202170009.6261D9300A3@mail.runrev.com>
References: <20040202170009.6261D9300A3@mail.runrev.com>
Message-ID: <401E9358.3050303@bestweb.net>

I thought flash player was not the greatest for showing video.  Maybe is 
is better now.
Generally speaking, VideoLAN (http://www.videolan.org/) is probably the 
best cross-platform opensource media player out there.  I have always 
preferred Quicktime player and format over other usual suspects.

From janschenkel at yahoo.com  Mon Feb  2 13:39:32 2004
From: janschenkel at yahoo.com (Jan Schenkel)
Date: Mon, 2 Feb 2004 10:39:32 -0800 (PST)
Subject: GoRevnet & LibURL?
In-Reply-To: <BC43D318.3C7A4%ambassador@fourthworld.com>
Message-ID: <20040202183932.8235.qmail@web60509.mail.yahoo.com>

--- Richard Gaskin <ambassador at fourthworld.com> wrote:
> Jan Schenkel wrote:
> 
> > My ISP forces me to get a proxy-configuration file
> > from a URL, and I can set this in the Internet
> > preferences on Windows.
> > However, libURL doesn't seem able to fetch this
> > information, which is why I have to manually set
> the
> > httpProxy before I open up RevNet.
> 
> Isn't there a proxy setting in Rev's Prefs?
> 

I keep filling it in, but Rev's prefs stack seems
unwilling to remember the setting.

Jan Schenkel.

=====
"As we grow older, we grow both wiser and more foolish at the same time."  (La Rochefoucauld)

__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free web site building tool. Try it!
http://webhosting.yahoo.com/ps/sb/

From richmond at mail.maclaunch.com  Mon Feb  2 12:48:03 2004
From: richmond at mail.maclaunch.com (Mathewson)
Date: Mon, 02 Feb 2004 12:48:03 -0500
Subject: Richmond "Does"MetaCard, Swastikas, Zip formats.....
Message-ID: <web-314100527@mail.maclaunch.com>

Sorry about the swastika: no offence meant-just seemed a
good icon for "Control Browser"- have uploaded a version
with a new, less contentious icon.

I zipped the first version in a 'funny' format which at
least one person had problems with - the swastika-free
version is zipped in a standard fashion.

All the best, Richmond Mathewson

__________________________________________________
See Mathewson's software at:

http://members.maclaunch.com/richmond/default.html    and
http://www.runrev.com/Revolution1/developercentral/usercontributions.html
_______________________________________
---------------------------------------------------------------
Great Macintosh Products 
 The MacLaunch Store! http://www.maclaunch.com/cgi-launch/store/agora.cgi
---------------------------------------------------------------

From alex at mindlube.com  Mon Feb  2 14:35:01 2004
From: alex at mindlube.com (Alex Rice)
Date: Mon, 2 Feb 2004 12:35:01 -0700
Subject: win32 topstack problem
Message-ID: <E48AE2E5-55B6-11D8-89B6-000393C4760A@mindlube.com>

Has anyone see problem similar to this?

Background:

I navigate between mainstack and substack by this code:

	go card x of stack "sub" as toplevel -- a substack
	hide me -- the mainstack

(I hide the previous stack *afte*r opening the next stack so there is 
no empty space flashing between stacks. Also using "go ... in the 
window of ..." is not an option at this point- I would have to rewrite 
too much code.)

In the preOpenStack card handler of stack "sub", a script runs this 
code:

	send xxxxyyyy to the current card of the topstack

(The script is run by an external XCMD, if that matters.)

Here is the problem:

On Mac OS X, the message xxxxyyyy is sent to card x of stack "sub"
On Win32, the message xxxxyyyy is sent to somewhere else, I guess to 
the current card of the  mainstack. Here is a workaround:

	go card x of stack "sub" as toplevel -- a substack
	wait 1 tick with messages -- wait for "topstack" to be correct
	hide me -- the mainstack

So it seems there is some kind of race condition where "the topstack" 
is not necessarily known?

Thanks for any thoughts or bugzilla #'s.
I haven't isolated this to a specific recipe, or even know if it's 
something I'm causing myself but thought I would ask.




--
Alex Rice | Mindlube Software | http://mindlube.com


From ambassador at fourthworld.com  Mon Feb  2 14:38:24 2004
From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin)
Date: Mon, 02 Feb 2004 11:38:24 -0800
Subject: win32 topstack problem
In-Reply-To: <E48AE2E5-55B6-11D8-89B6-000393C4760A@mindlube.com>
Message-ID: <BC43E72F.3C7BA%ambassador@fourthworld.com>

Alex Rice wrote:

> Has anyone see problem similar to this?
> 
> Background:
> 
> I navigate between mainstack and substack by this code:
> 
> go card x of stack "sub" as toplevel -- a substack
> hide me -- the mainstack
> 
> (I hide the previous stack *afte*r opening the next stack so there is
> no empty space flashing between stacks. Also using "go ... in the
> window of ..." is not an option at this point- I would have to rewrite
> too much code.)
> 
> In the preOpenStack card handler of stack "sub", a script runs this
> code:
> 
> send xxxxyyyy to the current card of the topstack
> 
> (The script is run by an external XCMD, if that matters.)
> 
> Here is the problem:
> 
> On Mac OS X, the message xxxxyyyy is sent to card x of stack "sub"
> On Win32, the message xxxxyyyy is sent to somewhere else, I guess to
> the current card of the  mainstack. Here is a workaround:
> 
> go card x of stack "sub" as toplevel -- a substack
> wait 1 tick with messages -- wait for "topstack" to be correct
> hide me -- the mainstack
> 
> So it seems there is some kind of race condition where "the topstack"
> is not necessarily known?

The preOpenStack message is sent before the card is drawn, while the
topStack returns the value of the topmost visible stack with the lowest
mode.

This behavior should be the same across platforms, so I appreciate your
Bugzilla report of any platform-specific deviance.

Changing your handler from preOpenStack to openStack may resolve the issue.

-- 
 Richard Gaskin 
 Fourth World Media Corporation
 ___________________________________________________________
 Ambassador at FourthWorld.com       http://www.FourthWorld.com


From dcragg at lacscentre.co.uk  Mon Feb  2 14:59:44 2004
From: dcragg at lacscentre.co.uk (Dave Cragg)
Date: Mon, 2 Feb 2004 19:59:44 +0000
Subject: GoRevnet & LibURL?
In-Reply-To: <1g8izze.1f1vddz1160r5aM%mcdomi@free.fr>
References: <1g8izze.1f1vddz1160r5aM%mcdomi@free.fr>
Message-ID: <p06020407bc445b71cb92@[192.168.123.7]>

At 11:15 am +0100 2/2/04, Dom wrote:
>Richard Gaskin <ambassador at fourthworld.com> wrote:
>
>>  - A bug in the engine causes inserted scripts to b removed if the stack
>>  containing them has its destroyStack property set to true and is closed.  By
>>  default the destroyStack property of GoRevnet is false -- could something in
>>  your environment be changing that?
>
>Verified. The destroystack property is set to false.

Richard,

Is it possible that even if destroyStack is set to false that a 
closed stack can be purged from memory when insufficient memory is 
available? I have a *very* vague memory of reading this somewhere.

Dave

From alex at mindlube.com  Mon Feb  2 15:24:46 2004
From: alex at mindlube.com (Alex Rice)
Date: Mon, 2 Feb 2004 13:24:46 -0700
Subject: win32 topstack problem
In-Reply-To: <BC43E72F.3C7BA%ambassador@fourthworld.com>
References: <BC43E72F.3C7BA%ambassador@fourthworld.com>
Message-ID: <D7BE677C-55BD-11D8-89B6-000393C4760A@mindlube.com>


On Feb 2, 2004, at 12:38 PM, Richard Gaskin wrote:

> The preOpenStack message is sent before the card is drawn, while the
> topStack returns the value of the topmost visible stack with the lowest
> mode.
>
> This behavior should be the same across platforms, so I appreciate your
> Bugzilla report of any platform-specific deviance.

Which behavior would you expect in that example: for the xxxxyyyy 
message to go to the current card of the mainstack or the current card 
of the substack?

> Changing your handler from preOpenStack to openStack may resolve the 
> issue.

OK thanks.
--
Alex Rice | Mindlube Software | http://mindlube.com


From hershbp at realtorsgroup.us  Mon Feb  2 15:30:59 2004
From: hershbp at realtorsgroup.us (hershrev)
Date: Mon, 2 Feb 2004 15:30:59 -0500
Subject: no such object
Message-ID: <B64FAE81-55BE-11D8-9071-0030654C1E62@realtorsgroup.us>

Hi every one
I have a script in a stack
on openStack
    "put  revOpenDatabase("PostgreSQL",field 
"ip_address","test","postgres","xxxxxxx")into field "myDBID"
end openStack
  working fine , when I call it from a substack,(call "openStack" ) the 
compiler comes up no such object.

      	executing at 3:26:04 PM
Type	Chunk: no such object
Object	ATfRE
Line	put  revOpenDatabase("PostgreSQL",field 
"ip_address","test","postgres","xxxxxxx")into field "myDBID"
Hint	ip_address

Thanks hershrev.


From ambassador at fourthworld.com  Mon Feb  2 15:36:43 2004
From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin)
Date: Mon, 02 Feb 2004 12:36:43 -0800
Subject: GoRevnet & LibURL?
In-Reply-To: <p06020407bc445b71cb92@[192.168.123.7]>
Message-ID: <BC43F4DB.3C7CB%ambassador@fourthworld.com>

Dave Cragg wrote:

> At 11:15 am +0100 2/2/04, Dom wrote:
>> Richard Gaskin <ambassador at fourthworld.com> wrote:
>> 
>>> - A bug in the engine causes inserted scripts to b removed if the stack
>>> containing them has its destroyStack property set to true and is closed.  By
>>> default the destroyStack property of GoRevnet is false -- could something in
>>> your environment be changing that?
>> 
>> Verified. The destroystack property is set to false.
> 
> Richard,
> 
> Is it possible that even if destroyStack is set to false that a
> closed stack can be purged from memory when insufficient memory is
> available? I have a *very* vague memory of reading this somewhere.

I suppose that's possible; memory issues can affect a wide variety of
object-loading issues.

But I've only ever seen low-memory errors on Mac OS 9 and earlier; Win and
UNIX seem to have sufficiently robust virtual memory such that I've never
encountered such an error on those systems (I was even able to use
decompress on a 280MB gzipfile on OS X without a hitch).

-- 
 Richard Gaskin 
 Fourth World Media Corporation
 ___________________________________________________________
 Ambassador at FourthWorld.com       http://www.FourthWorld.com


From ambassador at fourthworld.com  Mon Feb  2 15:37:38 2004
From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin)
Date: Mon, 02 Feb 2004 12:37:38 -0800
Subject: win32 topstack problem
In-Reply-To: <D7BE677C-55BD-11D8-89B6-000393C4760A@mindlube.com>
Message-ID: <BC43F511.3C7CB%ambassador@fourthworld.com>

Alex Rice wrote:

> 
> On Feb 2, 2004, at 12:38 PM, Richard Gaskin wrote:
> 
>> The preOpenStack message is sent before the card is drawn, while the
>> topStack returns the value of the topmost visible stack with the lowest
>> mode.
>> 
>> This behavior should be the same across platforms, so I appreciate your
>> Bugzilla report of any platform-specific deviance.
> 
> Which behavior would you expect in that example: for the xxxxyyyy
> message to go to the current card of the mainstack or the current card
> of the substack?

Which ever is the topmost visible stack of the lowest mode at the time.

-- 
 Richard Gaskin 
 Fourth World Media Corporation
 ___________________________________________________________
 Ambassador at FourthWorld.com       http://www.FourthWorld.com


From janschenkel at yahoo.com  Mon Feb  2 15:40:07 2004
From: janschenkel at yahoo.com (Jan Schenkel)
Date: Mon, 2 Feb 2004 12:40:07 -0800 (PST)
Subject: no such object
In-Reply-To: <B64FAE81-55BE-11D8-9071-0030654C1E62@realtorsgroup.us>
Message-ID: <20040202204007.93862.qmail@web60503.mail.yahoo.com>

--- hershrev <hershbp at realtorsgroup.us> wrote:
> Hi every one
> I have a script in a stack
> on openStack
>     "put  revOpenDatabase("PostgreSQL",field 
> "ip_address","test","postgres","xxxxxxx")into field
> "myDBID"
> end openStack
>   working fine , when I call it from a
> substack,(call "openStack" ) the 
> compiler comes up no such object.
> 
>       	executing at 3:26:04 PM
> Type	Chunk: no such object
> Object	ATfRE
> Line	put  revOpenDatabase("PostgreSQL",field 
> "ip_address","test","postgres","xxxxxxx")into field
> "myDBID"
> Hint	ip_address
> 
> Thanks hershrev.
> 

Hi Hershrev,

Unless you have a field "ip_address" in your substack,
you'll have to better specify that field "ip_address"
in your mainstack :
  put revOpenDatabase('PostgreSQL", field "ip_address"
of me,"test","postgres","xxxxxxx")into field "myDBID"

Hope this helped,

Jan Schenkel.

=====
"As we grow older, we grow both wiser and more foolish at the same time."  (La Rochefoucauld)

__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free web site building tool. Try it!
http://webhosting.yahoo.com/ps/sb/

From JimCarwardine at OwnYourFuture-net.com  Mon Feb  2 15:43:21 2004
From: JimCarwardine at OwnYourFuture-net.com (Jim Carwardine)
Date: Mon, 02 Feb 2004 16:43:21 -0400
Subject: Richmond "Does"MetaCard, Swastikas, Zip formats.....
In-Reply-To: <web-314100527@mail.maclaunch.com>
Message-ID: <BC442EA8.4D26%JimCarwardine@OwnYourFuture-net.com>

When will the OS 9 version be ready?  Jim

on 2/2/04 1:48 PM, Mathewson wrote:

> Sorry about the swastika: no offence meant-just seemed a
> good icon for "Control Browser"- have uploaded a version
> with a new, less contentious icon.
> 
> I zipped the first version in a 'funny' format which at
> least one person had problems with - the swastika-free
> version is zipped in a standard fashion.
> 
> All the best, Richmond Mathewson
> 
> __________________________________________________
> See Mathewson's software at:
> 
> http://members.maclaunch.com/richmond/default.html    and
> http://www.runrev.com/Revolution1/developercentral/usercontributions.html
> _______________________________________
> ---------------------------------------------------------------
> Great Macintosh Products
> The MacLaunch Store! http://www.maclaunch.com/cgi-launch/store/agora.cgi
> ---------------------------------------------------------------
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution

-- 

OYF is... Highly resourceful people working together.
<http://www.OwnYourFuture-net.com>

Own Your Future Consulting Services Limited,
1959 Upper Water Street, Suite 407, Halifax, Nova Scotia. B3J 3N2
Info Line: 902-823-2477, Phone: 902-823-2339. Fax: 902-823-2139




From b.xavier at internet.lu  Mon Feb  2 16:01:40 2004
From: b.xavier at internet.lu (MisterX)
Date: Mon, 2 Feb 2004 22:01:40 +0100
Subject: Stealth Browser release
In-Reply-To: <B64FAE81-55BE-11D8-9071-0030654C1E62@realtorsgroup.us>
Message-ID: <ENEALNOCJBOOOHHCCEKNMEFDFMAA.b.xavier@internet.lu>

For all of you daring cybernautes,

Since I dont like sitting on near ready releases...
Here is the premiere release of my Stealth Browser 1.0
for RunRev...

http://monsieurx.com/modules.php?name=News&file=article&sid=137

It's bare bones, look at the coming features to see what's
coming... Testing was also barebones due to quite a few RR
technical problems. 

Mac and Linux improvements are welcome... Any improvements for
that matter... 

A language-free version should be available soon to test the 
new GUI language module made for the Roulette sim...

This browser is freeware (beerware for those inclined)...
	
Enjoy

MonsieurX

From alex at mindlube.com  Mon Feb  2 15:55:08 2004
From: alex at mindlube.com (Alex Rice)
Date: Mon, 2 Feb 2004 13:55:08 -0700
Subject: win32 topstack problem
In-Reply-To: <BC43F511.3C7CB%ambassador@fourthworld.com>
References: <BC43F511.3C7CB%ambassador@fourthworld.com>
Message-ID: <15E88058-55C2-11D8-89B6-000393C4760A@mindlube.com>


On Feb 2, 2004, at 1:37 PM, Richard Gaskin wrote:
> Which ever is the topmost visible stack of the lowest mode at the time.

Unfortunately the definition of "topstack" doesn't help me understand 
what's happening.

--
Alex Rice | Mindlube Software | http://mindlube.com


From hershbp at realtorsgroup.us  Mon Feb  2 16:03:30 2004
From: hershbp at realtorsgroup.us (hershrev)
Date: Mon, 2 Feb 2004 16:03:30 -0500
Subject: no such object
In-Reply-To: <20040202204007.93862.qmail@web60503.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <4144A22E-55C3-11D8-9071-0030654C1E62@realtorsgroup.us>

I got that but the Ip add varies from time to time. Is there a way to 
send a message in a stack from a different stack ?
Thanks hershrev
On Monday, February 2, 2004, at 03:40 PM, Jan Schenkel wrote:

> --- hershrev <hershbp at realtorsgroup.us> wrote:
>> Hi every one
>> I have a script in a stack
>> on openStack
>>     "put  revOpenDatabase("PostgreSQL",field
>> "ip_address","test","postgres","xxxxxxx")into field
>> "myDBID"
>> end openStack
>>   working fine , when I call it from a
>> substack,(call "openStack" ) the
>> compiler comes up no such object.
>>
>>       	executing at 3:26:04 PM
>> Type	Chunk: no such object
>> Object	ATfRE
>> Line	put  revOpenDatabase("PostgreSQL",field
>> "ip_address","test","postgres","xxxxxxx")into field
>> "myDBID"
>> Hint	ip_address
>>
>> Thanks hershrev.
>>
>
> Hi Hershrev,
>
> Unless you have a field "ip_address" in your substack,
> you'll have to better specify that field "ip_address"
> in your mainstack :
>   put revOpenDatabase('PostgreSQL", field "ip_address"
> of me,"test","postgres","xxxxxxx")into field "myDBID"
>
> Hope this helped,
>
> Jan Schenkel.
>
> =====
> "As we grow older, we grow both wiser and more foolish at the same 
> time."  (La Rochefoucauld)
>
> __________________________________
> Do you Yahoo!?
> Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free web site building tool. Try it!
> http://webhosting.yahoo.com/ps/sb/
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>


From janschenkel at yahoo.com  Mon Feb  2 16:11:13 2004
From: janschenkel at yahoo.com (Jan Schenkel)
Date: Mon, 2 Feb 2004 13:11:13 -0800 (PST)
Subject: no such object
In-Reply-To: <4144A22E-55C3-11D8-9071-0030654C1E62@realtorsgroup.us>
Message-ID: <20040202211113.65693.qmail@web60502.mail.yahoo.com>

--- hershrev <hershbp at realtorsgroup.us> wrote:
> I got that but the Ip add varies from time to time.
> Is there a way to 
> send a message in a stack from a different stack ?
> Thanks hershrev
> 

Yes there is, and the command is called 'send' : 
--
  send "someMessage" to stack "Foobar"
--

But if you're trying to trigger a handler in your
mainstack, you may as well just use the handlername --
the message path goes through the mainstack.

So in your case, you could add a handler to your
mainstack script :
--
on UpdateDB_IPAddress pNewAddress
  put pNewAddress into field "IPAddress" of me
end UpdateDB_IPAddress
--

And then from any of your substacks, you can do
something like :
--
  UpdateDB_IPAddress "the.new.host"
--

Hope this helped,

Jan Schenkel.

=====
"As we grow older, we grow both wiser and more foolish at the same time."  (La Rochefoucauld)

__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free web site building tool. Try it!
http://webhosting.yahoo.com/ps/sb/

From harrison at all-auctions.com  Mon Feb  2 16:31:11 2004
From: harrison at all-auctions.com (Richard Harrison)
Date: Mon, 2 Feb 2004 16:31:11 -0500
Subject: Stealth Browser release
In-Reply-To: <ENEALNOCJBOOOHHCCEKNMEFDFMAA.b.xavier@internet.lu>
References: <ENEALNOCJBOOOHHCCEKNMEFDFMAA.b.xavier@internet.lu>
Message-ID: <1F2B9DCA-55C7-11D8-B141-000393C10758@all-auctions.com>


On Feb 2, 2004, at 4:01 PM, MisterX wrote:

> For all of you daring cybernautes,
>
> Since I dont like sitting on near ready releases...
> Here is the premiere release of my Stealth Browser 1.0
> for RunRev...
>
...

> This browser is freeware (beerware for those inclined)...
> 	
> Enjoy
>
> MonsieurX
>

You may want to rename your application.

I think someone else is already using the name
Stealth Browser.

Do a search on the internet for it and you will find it.

Do I really have to register on your website just to try this out?

Good luck!

Rick Harrision


From gizmotron at earthlink.net  Mon Feb  2 16:02:11 2004
From: gizmotron at earthlink.net (Mark Brownell)
Date: Mon, 2 Feb 2004 13:02:11 -0800
Subject: Stealth Browser release
In-Reply-To: <ENEALNOCJBOOOHHCCEKNMEFDFMAA.b.xavier@internet.lu>
Message-ID: <11FD0AA9-55C3-11D8-B136-000A95859272@earthlink.net>


On Monday, February 2, 2004, at 01:01  PM, MisterX wrote:

> For all of you daring cybernautes,
>
> Since I dont like sitting on near ready releases...
> Here is the premiere release of my Stealth Browser 1.0
> for RunRev...
>
> http://monsieurx.com/modules.php?name=News&file=article&sid=137

I keep getting "MonsieurX: Access Denied" when I hit the download link 
at:

Here is the new release of Stealth Browser. Download here (12Kbs 
zipped) for testing.

Mark


From 3mcgrath at adelphia.net  Mon Feb  2 17:19:42 2004
From: 3mcgrath at adelphia.net (Thomas McGrath III)
Date: Mon, 2 Feb 2004 17:19:42 -0500
Subject: iconifyStack and uniconifyStack
Message-ID: <E62D1D18-55CD-11D8-9D74-000A95DA60FA@adelphia.net>

Hello all,

I can't get the behavior I need. I have a main stack and a few 
substacks.

I want the main stack and it's substacks to minimize when one of them 
is minimized.
The user may minimize either the main stack and then it's substacks 
that are open will minimize OR they may minimize a substack and the 
main stack & other substacks will minimize.

I can't seem to figure it out.
1. the dock shows multiple stacks minimized. Any way around that?
2. the iconifyStack message does not send ?? in 30 mills
3. the uniconifyStack does not send to the other minimized stacks
4. the system seems to hang up and I have to force quit.

I have the stacks set to minimize, title.
This script is in my main Stack:
on iconifyStack
   put the openStacks into myopenstacks
   repeat with v = 1 to (the num lines in myopenstacks)
     send iconifyStack to stack (line v in myopenstacks) in 30 
milliseconds
   end repeat
   set the backdrop to none
end iconifyStack

on unIconifyStack
   put the openstacks into myopenstacks
   repeat with b = 1 to (the num lines in myopenstacks)
     send unIconifyStack to stack (line b in myopenstacks) in 30 
milliseconds
   end repeat
end unIconifyStack

Do I need to pass the iconifyStack and unIconifyStack messages?
Or what else should I be doing?

Thank you listees,

Tom


Macintosh PowerBook G-4 OSX 10.3.1, OS 9.2.2, 1.25 GHz, 512MB RAM, Rev 
2.1.2


Advanced Media Group
Thomas J McGrath III	? 2003 ?	3mcgrath at adelphia.net
220 Drake Road, Bethel Park, PA 15102



From revlist at cableone.net  Mon Feb  2 18:01:49 2004
From: revlist at cableone.net (Chris Sheffield)
Date: Mon, 2 Feb 2004 16:01:49 -0700
Subject: kerning
Message-ID: <000501c3e9e0$8a9df660$64fea8c0@chris1>

Is there anyway to control kerning in Revolution?  I haven't found anything.
It seems like in Rev 1.1 there was fontSpacing property (or something like
that) to control this, but I can't seem to find it in Rev 2.1.2.  Did it
even exist in the first place, or was I dreaming?  :-)

If anyone has a way to do this, I'd greatly appreciate it.  Thanks.


Chris Sheffield
Software Development
Read Naturally

---
Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
Version: 6.0.576 / Virus Database: 365 - Release Date: 1/30/2004
 


From revlist at cableone.net  Mon Feb  2 18:06:34 2004
From: revlist at cableone.net (Chris Sheffield)
Date: Mon, 2 Feb 2004 16:06:34 -0700
Subject: exit preOpenCard
Message-ID: <000601c3e9e1$3465b520$64fea8c0@chris1>

Here's my problem.  I'm checking for a certain value in a preOpenCard
handler.  If the value is false, I want to exit that preOpenCard and go to
the next card.  Problem is if I have

	go next cd
	exit preOpenCard

the preOpenCard of the next card exits, not the first one.  Hopefully this
makes sense.  Is there anyway I can exit the first preOpenCard and go to the
next card creating a problem like this?  I tried putting in a line after go
next cd that is "wait 500 millisecs with messages", but that only works
sometimes.  Thanks.

Chris Sheffield
Software Development
Read Naturally

---
Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
Version: 6.0.576 / Virus Database: 365 - Release Date: 1/30/2004
 


From scott at tactilemedia.com  Mon Feb  2 18:09:38 2004
From: scott at tactilemedia.com (Scott Rossi)
Date: Mon, 02 Feb 2004 15:09:38 -0800
Subject: exit preOpenCard
In-Reply-To: <000601c3e9e1$3465b520$64fea8c0@chris1>
Message-ID: <BC4418B2.9EF7%scott@tactilemedia.com>

Recently, "Chris Sheffield"  wrote:

> Here's my problem.  I'm checking for a certain value in a preOpenCard
> handler.  If the value is false, I want to exit that preOpenCard and go to
> the next card.  Problem is if I have
> 
> go next cd
> exit preOpenCard
> 
> the preOpenCard of the next card exits, not the first one.  Hopefully this
> makes sense.  Is there anyway I can exit the first preOpenCard and go to the
> next card creating a problem like this?  I tried putting in a line after go
> next cd that is "wait 500 millisecs with messages", but that only works
> sometimes.  Thanks.

What happens if you use "exit to top" instead of "exit preOpenCard"?

Regards,

Scott Rossi
Creative Director
Tactile Media, Multimedia & Design
-----
E: scott at tactilemedia.com
W: http://www.tactilemedia.com


From rpresender at earthlink.net  Mon Feb  2 18:18:54 2004
From: rpresender at earthlink.net (Robert Presender)
Date: Mon, 2 Feb 2004 15:18:54 -0800
Subject: List field behavior
In-Reply-To: <20040202170009.6261D9300A3@mail.runrev.com>
Message-ID: <2B6B79EC-55D6-11D8-BE38-000393A19046@earthlink.net>

Thanks Rob,
Will have to upgrade to 2.1.2 from 2.1RC1

On Monday, February 2, 2004, at 09:00  AM, Rob Cozens wrote:

> Bob,
>
>> Used: delete line 2 of field x of stack y.  This syntax deletes the
>> line but: put the number of lines of field x of stack y results with
>> 3.  Line 2 has no text.
>> Same results when empty is used instead of delete.
>
> Using Rev 2.1.2 on Mac OS 9 & X, the results are NOT the same here:
> Put empty leaves a blank line; delete removes the line.  I guess
> Jacque was right about a bug...though I thought you said you were
> working with v2.1, and I'm surprised that kind of an error could
> persist that long.
>
>>> What syntax do you use to add the line?
>>
>> put text into line 2 of field x of stack y. This puts text into line 
>> 2.
>
> Same here.
>
Regards .... Bob
http://home.earthlink.net/~rep.shareware


From dsc at swcp.com  Mon Feb  2 18:28:39 2004
From: dsc at swcp.com (Dar Scott)
Date: Mon, 2 Feb 2004 16:28:39 -0700
Subject: kerning
In-Reply-To: <000501c3e9e0$8a9df660$64fea8c0@chris1>
Message-ID: <8831A34C-55D7-11D8-9A9E-000A9567A3E6@swcp.com>


On Monday, February 2, 2004, at 04:01 PM, Chris Sheffield wrote:

> Is there anyway to control kerning in Revolution?

Would expanded and condensed help?  These might have platform 
dependencies.

Dar scott


From richmond at mail.maclaunch.com  Mon Feb  2 17:12:17 2004
From: richmond at mail.maclaunch.com (Mathewson)
Date: Mon, 02 Feb 2004 17:12:17 -0500
Subject: Richmond messes you around-Sorry!
Message-ID: <web-314109667@mail.maclaunch.com>

Sorry Chaps......made a bit of a bog of things....now all
up and working on my website.....no swastikas (however, I
do think Kipling's poetry is very good).....no Unzip
gremlins......

Love, Abuse,Richmond

__________________________________________________
See Mathewson's software at:

http://members.maclaunch.com/richmond/default.html    and
http://www.runrev.com/Revolution1/developercentral/usercontributions.html
_______________________________________
---------------------------------------------------------------
Great Macintosh Products 
 The MacLaunch Store! http://www.maclaunch.com/cgi-launch/store/agora.cgi
---------------------------------------------------------------

From dsc at swcp.com  Mon Feb  2 18:40:22 2004
From: dsc at swcp.com (Dar Scott)
Date: Mon, 2 Feb 2004 16:40:22 -0700
Subject: Where to put externals and stacks in OS X bundles?
Message-ID: <2AC05B12-55D9-11D8-9A9E-000A9567A3E6@swcp.com>

I _think_ this is where externals and stacks go in an OS X application 
bundle, but I'm not sure:

myApp.app
     Contents
         MacOS
             myApp
             toolX
             toolY
             toolZ
         Resources
             libStack1.rev
             libStack2.rev
             libStack3.rev
         PlugIns
             externalA.bundle
             externalB.bundle
             externalB.bundle

Is this right?

Stacks and externals might be exceptional in some way.

Now what about externals used by the library stacks?  Where do they go?

Dar Scott


From dcragg at lacscentre.co.uk  Mon Feb  2 18:42:07 2004
From: dcragg at lacscentre.co.uk (Dave Cragg)
Date: Mon, 2 Feb 2004 23:42:07 +0000
Subject: exit preOpenCard
In-Reply-To: <000601c3e9e1$3465b520$64fea8c0@chris1>
References: <000601c3e9e1$3465b520$64fea8c0@chris1>
Message-ID: <p0602040cbc4490122177@[192.168.123.7]>

At 4:06 pm -0700 2/2/04, Chris Sheffield wrote:
>Here's my problem.  I'm checking for a certain value in a preOpenCard
>handler.  If the value is false, I want to exit that preOpenCard and go to
>the next card.  Problem is if I have
>
>	go next cd
>	exit preOpenCard
>
>the preOpenCard of the next card exits, not the first one.  Hopefully this
>makes sense.  Is there anyway I can exit the first preOpenCard and go to the
>next card creating a problem like this?  I tried putting in a line after go
>next cd that is "wait 500 millisecs with messages", but that only works
>sometimes.  Thanks.

Something like this, perhaps: (untested)

     send "gonext" to me in 50 milliseconds
     exit preOpenCard

   on gonext
      go next card
   end gonext

Cheers
Dave

From richmond at mail.maclaunch.com  Mon Feb  2 17:18:43 2004
From: richmond at mail.maclaunch.com (Mathewson)
Date: Mon, 02 Feb 2004 17:18:43 -0500
Subject: Mac Classic version of my MetaCard Attack
Message-ID: <web-314109764@mail.maclaunch.com>

Well, Mr Cawardine....I merely state that I have only run
this under Mac OS X... but as far as I have been able to
tell all MetaCard stacks are interchangeable from Win-Mac
X-Mac 9 so these should be just fine and dandy under
Classic...do hope so... give them a go and let me know!

All the best, Richmond Mathewson

__________________________________________________
See Mathewson's software at:

http://members.maclaunch.com/richmond/default.html    and
http://www.runrev.com/Revolution1/developercentral/usercontributions.html
_______________________________________
---------------------------------------------------------------
Great Macintosh Products 
 The MacLaunch Store! http://www.maclaunch.com/cgi-launch/store/agora.cgi
---------------------------------------------------------------

From dsc at swcp.com  Mon Feb  2 18:48:55 2004
From: dsc at swcp.com (Dar Scott)
Date: Mon, 2 Feb 2004 16:48:55 -0700
Subject: exit preOpenCard
In-Reply-To: <p0602040cbc4490122177@[192.168.123.7]>
Message-ID: <5CE2A060-55DA-11D8-9A9E-000A9567A3E6@swcp.com>


On Monday, February 2, 2004, at 04:42 PM, Dave Cragg wrote:

> Something like this, perhaps: (untested)
>
>     send "gonext" to me in 50 milliseconds
>     exit preOpenCard
>
>   on gonext
>      go next card
>   end gonext

I was guessing something similar.  This might work, too:

send "go next card" to me in 50 milliseconds.

Maybe a 'lock screen' is needed in there, too.  Or maybe lock screen 
here and make the test & send in openCard to make sure the 'go' is 
always after openCard.

Dar Scott


From richmond at mail.maclaunch.com  Mon Feb  2 17:22:34 2004
From: richmond at mail.maclaunch.com (Mathewson)
Date: Mon, 02 Feb 2004 17:22:34 -0500
Subject: [OT] apology to Jim Carwardine
Message-ID: <web-314109831@mail.maclaunch.com>

Please acceptmy apologies for having spelt your name
wrongly.
__________________________________________________
See Mathewson's software at:

http://members.maclaunch.com/richmond/default.html    and
http://www.runrev.com/Revolution1/developercentral/usercontributions.html
_______________________________________
---------------------------------------------------------------
Great Macintosh Products 
 The MacLaunch Store! http://www.maclaunch.com/cgi-launch/store/agora.cgi
---------------------------------------------------------------

From joe.gardner at nwa.com  Mon Feb  2 19:06:45 2004
From: joe.gardner at nwa.com (Gardner, Joseph A)
Date: Tue, 3 Feb 2004 09:06:45 +0900
Subject: The card is grey on printing!!
Message-ID: <CF18E340C73DB74C930BB2473A7F5362239027@AMTYOK01.pad.nwa.com>

Jan, thanks for the info. Yes, this is happening in the IDE. I haven't built a stand-alone and tested yet, but I suspect the same thing would happen. I guess it's off to Bugzilla. ;)

Is there a way to apply the "Print" command to just a field? In my developing, I couldn't find a solution to this, which is why I went with "revPrintField". Any advice would be most welcome.

Dave, I'll give your suggestion a shot, but I think you're right about the difference between printing a card and a field. Really appreciate the input!

Thanks for all the help!

joe.

-------------------

Dave said:

I had this same problem, but solved it by going to the colors and patterns
in the card inspector.  I clicked on the square for background in the
'color column', chose crayons from the list and snow from the color
choices.  After that the grey was gone from the card.  This situation may
be a little different in that I was printing cards, not fields.
Dave


Jan said:

The answer I gave should work for those cases when
you're using the 'print' command.
Your case involves the revPrintField command, where
you don't have control over the stack that is used for
printing.

A few questions :
- does this happen in the IDE or only in standalones ?
- if only in standalones, have you let the
distribution builder apply the default colours ?

If it also happens in the IDE, a trip to bugzilla is
in order, I think :-)




From rjb at rz.uni-potsdam.de  Mon Feb  2 19:12:32 2004
From: rjb at rz.uni-potsdam.de (Robert Brenstein)
Date: Tue, 3 Feb 2004 01:12:32 +0100
Subject: exit preOpenCard
In-Reply-To: <000601c3e9e1$3465b520$64fea8c0@chris1>
References: <000601c3e9e1$3465b520$64fea8c0@chris1>
Message-ID: <a06020414bc44976405a0@[141.89.100.235]>

>Here's my problem.  I'm checking for a certain value in a preOpenCard
>handler.  If the value is false, I want to exit that preOpenCard and go to
>the next card.  Problem is if I have
>
>	go next cd
>	exit preOpenCard
>
>the preOpenCard of the next card exits, not the first one.  Hopefully this
>makes sense.  Is there anyway I can exit the first preOpenCard and go to the
>next card creating a problem like this?  I tried putting in a line after go
>next cd that is "wait 500 millisecs with messages", but that only works
>sometimes.  Thanks.
>
>Chris Sheffield
>Software Development
>Read Naturally
>

check the dynamicPaths setting. if it is false, then you might have hit a bug.

what happens if you pass preopenstack instead of exit preopenstack? 
does the preopenstack on the next card is called? may be you can call 
it explicitely.

robert

From geor9230 at saintmarys.edu  Mon Feb  2 19:30:04 2004
From: geor9230 at saintmarys.edu (geor9230 at saintmarys.edu)
Date: Mon, 02 Feb 2004 19:30:04 -0500
Subject: importing and playing audioClips in a stack (Andrea George)
Message-ID: <9cfb1e9cd383.9cd3839cfb1e@saintmarys.edu>


I am trying to import an audioClip into my Revolution stack that has been saved onto the hard drive.? I then tried to import this audioClip into my stack, but I am not sure if I am doing it correctly.  The following is what I typed in:

import audioClip from file "/Users/Shared/audioClips/UnchangedMelody.aiff"

This is not working and I have followed the steps I found in Revolution's Documentation.  Then I created a ?Play? button and I have written the following in the button?s script:

on mouseClick
? play audioClip "UnchangedMelody" looping
end mouseClick

This is trying to work, but something is stopping it.  It will make a noise and repeats the noise, but it fails to play the song.

I have read a lot of the documentation that Revolution offers, however I am not finding it to be very informative.? I followed the directions I have found, but I am unable to get anything to work.? What is it that I am doing wrong?? How do you import an audioClip into your stacks?? Is there anyone who could assist me on this matter?? 
?
Also, where can I find more documentation (besides what Revolution offers) or examples on the Internet to use as a guide when creating stacks (audioClip related, etc.)?
 
Thank You,

Andrea George


From sarahr at genesearch.com.au  Mon Feb  2 19:44:29 2004
From: sarahr at genesearch.com.au (Sarah Reichelt)
Date: Tue, 3 Feb 2004 10:44:29 +1000
Subject: Where to put externals and stacks in OS X bundles?
In-Reply-To: <2AC05B12-55D9-11D8-9A9E-000A9567A3E6@swcp.com>
References: <2AC05B12-55D9-11D8-9A9E-000A9567A3E6@swcp.com>
Message-ID: <1FE3650A-55E2-11D8-A2F8-0003937A97B8@genesearch.com.au>

I don't know about externals, but I have stacks in the MacOS folder 
along with the Revolution file that is the actual app. The icons are in 
the Resources folder. I guess for externals, it doesn't really matter 
where you put them so long as you know where they are so you can point 
your app towards them, so a separate folder seems a neat arrangement.

Cheers,
Sarah

On 3 Feb 2004, at 9:41 am, Dar Scott wrote:

> I _think_ this is where externals and stacks go in an OS X application 
> bundle, but I'm not sure:
>
> myApp.app
>     Contents
>         MacOS
>             myApp
>             toolX
>             toolY
>             toolZ
>         Resources
>             libStack1.rev
>             libStack2.rev
>             libStack3.rev
>         PlugIns
>             externalA.bundle
>             externalB.bundle
>             externalB.bundle
>
> Is this right?
>
> Stacks and externals might be exceptional in some way.
>
> Now what about externals used by the library stacks?  Where do they go?
>
> Dar Scott
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>
>
>


From 3mcgrath at adelphia.net  Mon Feb  2 19:40:53 2004
From: 3mcgrath at adelphia.net (Thomas McGrath III)
Date: Mon, 2 Feb 2004 19:40:53 -0500
Subject: importing and playing audioClips in a stack (Andrea George)
In-Reply-To: <9cfb1e9cd383.9cd3839cfb1e@saintmarys.edu>
References: <9cfb1e9cd383.9cd3839cfb1e@saintmarys.edu>
Message-ID: <9F076B10-55E1-11D8-9D74-000A95DA60FA@adelphia.net>

  put "/users/Shared/audioClips/UnchangedMelody.aiff" into lmyPath


  play audioClip lmyPath


To test put

put lmyPath -- and see if it is in there

Is the path correct?

HTH

Tom

On Feb 2, 2004, at 7:30 PM, geor9230 at saintmarys.edu wrote:

>
> I am trying to import an audioClip into my Revolution stack that has 
> been saved onto the hard drive.? I then tried to import this audioClip 
> into my stack, but I am not sure if I am doing it correctly.  The 
> following is what I typed in:
>
> import audioClip from file 
> "/Users/Shared/audioClips/UnchangedMelody.aiff"
>
> This is not working and I have followed the steps I found in 
> Revolution's Documentation.  Then I created a ?Play? button and I have 
> written the following in the button?s script:
>
> on mouseClick
> ? play audioClip "UnchangedMelody" looping
> end mouseClick
>
> This is trying to work, but something is stopping it.  It will make a 
> noise and repeats the noise, but it fails to play the song.
>
> I have read a lot of the documentation that Revolution offers, however 
> I am not finding it to be very informative.? I followed the directions 
> I have found, but I am unable to get anything to work.? What is it 
> that I am doing wrong?? How do you import an audioClip into your 
> stacks?? Is there anyone who could assist me on this matter??
> ?
> Also, where can I find more documentation (besides what Revolution 
> offers) or examples on the Internet to use as a guide when creating 
> stacks (audioClip related, etc.)?
>
> Thank You,
>
> Andrea George
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>
>

Thomas J. McGrath III
SCS
1000 Killarney Dr.
Pittsburgh, PA 15234
412-885-8541


From briany at qldlearning.com  Mon Feb  2 19:46:11 2004
From: briany at qldlearning.com (Brian Yennie)
Date: Mon, 2 Feb 2004 19:46:11 -0500
Subject: exit preOpenCard
In-Reply-To: <a06020414bc44976405a0@[141.89.100.235]>
Message-ID: <5CA97EFE-55E2-11D8-9037-000393AA08D2@qldlearning.com>

This does seem odd and possibly a bug. For the sake of a workaround, is 
there a reason that you need to call exit?
You may have more to your handler, but if you do something like:

on preOpenStack
   if checkValue() then
     go next card
   else

   end if
   ## don't put anything here
end preOpenStack

Then preOpenStack should just exit normally, no?

>> 	go next cd
>> 	exit preOpenCard

- Brian


From 3mcgrath at adelphia.net  Mon Feb  2 19:42:28 2004
From: 3mcgrath at adelphia.net (Thomas McGrath III)
Date: Mon, 2 Feb 2004 19:42:28 -0500
Subject: importing and playing audioClips in a stack (Andrea George)
In-Reply-To: <9cfb1e9cd383.9cd3839cfb1e@saintmarys.edu>
References: <9cfb1e9cd383.9cd3839cfb1e@saintmarys.edu>
Message-ID: <D7F84400-55E1-11D8-9D74-000A95DA60FA@adelphia.net>

Actually my stack makes a weird noise if the path is broken to my sound 
file. SO you probably have a bad path.

Try the whole path to the sound file.

Tom

On Feb 2, 2004, at 7:30 PM, geor9230 at saintmarys.edu wrote:

>
> I am trying to import an audioClip into my Revolution stack that has 
> been saved onto the hard drive.? I then tried to import this audioClip 
> into my stack, but I am not sure if I am doing it correctly.  The 
> following is what I typed in:
>
> import audioClip from file 
> "/Users/Shared/audioClips/UnchangedMelody.aiff"
>
> This is not working and I have followed the steps I found in 
> Revolution's Documentation.  Then I created a ?Play? button and I have 
> written the following in the button?s script:
>
> on mouseClick
> ? play audioClip "UnchangedMelody" looping
> end mouseClick
>
> This is trying to work, but something is stopping it.  It will make a 
> noise and repeats the noise, but it fails to play the song.
>
> I have read a lot of the documentation that Revolution offers, however 
> I am not finding it to be very informative.? I followed the directions 
> I have found, but I am unable to get anything to work.? What is it 
> that I am doing wrong?? How do you import an audioClip into your 
> stacks?? Is there anyone who could assist me on this matter??
> ?
> Also, where can I find more documentation (besides what Revolution 
> offers) or examples on the Internet to use as a guide when creating 
> stacks (audioClip related, etc.)?
>
> Thank You,
>
> Andrea George
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>
>

Thomas J. McGrath III
SCS
1000 Killarney Dr.
Pittsburgh, PA 15234
412-885-8541


From doug at webcrossing.com  Mon Feb  2 21:33:06 2004
From: doug at webcrossing.com (Doug Lerner)
Date: Tue, 03 Feb 2004 11:33:06 +0900
Subject: What does the IDE know that the standalone doesn't know?
Message-ID: <BC453772.25287%doug@webcrossing.com>

This is a hard one to debug, because it works just fine in the IDE. But it
doesn't in the standalone. Both OS X.

In the IDE, I grab a video frame and create an image in a stack containing
that frame. Works just fine.

But in the standalone app, just a white image appears.

I am including the video library ("other") and the video grabber window
itself works just fine in the standalone app.

Are there any general guidelines about what the IDE environment knows vs
what the standalone app knows that might help debug something like this?

Thanks,

doug


From 3mcgrath at adelphia.net  Mon Feb  2 22:32:00 2004
From: 3mcgrath at adelphia.net (Thomas McGrath III)
Date: Mon, 2 Feb 2004 22:32:00 -0500
Subject: Has anyone ever used the iconifyStack and unIconifyStack
Message-ID: <86E90112-55F9-11D8-9D74-000A95DA60FA@adelphia.net>

Hello all,

If anyone has worked with these before than can you help me?

I can't get the behavior I need. I have a main stack and a few 
substacks.

I want the main stack and it's substacks to minimize when one of them 
is minimized.
The user may minimize either the main stack and then it's substacks 
that are open will minimize OR they may minimize a substack and the 
main stack & other substacks will minimize.

I can't seem to figure it out.
1. the dock shows multiple stacks minimized. Any way around that?
2. the iconifyStack message does not send ?? in 30 mills
3. the uniconifyStack does not send to the other minimized stacks
4. the system seems to hang up and I have to force quit.

I have the stacks set to minimize, title.
This script is in my main Stack:
on iconifyStack
   put the openStacks into myopenstacks
   repeat with v = 1 to (the num lines in myopenstacks)
     send iconifyStack to stack (line v in myopenstacks) in 30 
milliseconds
   end repeat
   set the backdrop to none
end iconifyStack

on unIconifyStack
   put the openstacks into myopenstacks
   repeat with b = 1 to (the num lines in myopenstacks)
     send unIconifyStack to stack (line b in myopenstacks) in 30 
milliseconds
   end repeat
end unIconifyStack

Do I need to pass the iconifyStack and unIconifyStack messages?
Or what else should I be doing?

Thank you listees,

Tom



Macintosh PowerBook G-4 OSX 10.3.1, OS 9.2.2, 1.25 GHz, 512MB RAM, Rev 
2.1.2


Advanced Media Group
Thomas J McGrath III	? 2003 ?	3mcgrath at adelphia.net
220 Drake Road, Bethel Park, PA 15102



From erikhans08 at yahoo.com  Mon Feb  2 22:41:45 2004
From: erikhans08 at yahoo.com (erik hansen)
Date: Mon, 2 Feb 2004 19:41:45 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Quicktime in Windows: best way to go?
In-Reply-To: <opr2qx3vzg7hj683@smtp.wanadoo.fr>
Message-ID: <20040203034145.38269.qmail@web61104.mail.yahoo.com>

--- "opus.species at wanadoo.fr"
<opus.species at wanadoo.fr> wrote:

> Quicktime is a good solution for cross platform
> apps
> *IF* you dont need Linux
> *IF* your users have administrative rights on
> their computer (Quicktime is 
> not installed by default on Windows computers)
> *IF* Apple do not change his license policy of
> Quicktime suddenly (already 
> happens few years ago)
> 
> I used Quicktime for Windows apps succesfully
> for Point of Informations, 
> but i had nightmares with widely distributed
> CD-ROM because my end-users 
> didn't know how to install Quicktime, or where
> not allowed to do it or 
> there was some failure in the installation
> process.
> 
> For windows only apps DirectX is a much better
> solution, but unfortunately 
> not supported yet by revolution.
> 
> It would be very fine if Revolution could
> support natively the Flash 
> Player, because the flash player displays very
> well sounds, vector graphic 
> animation and digital video and is avalaible on
> Mac, Windows and Linux.

merci, Claude

y Windows Media... c'est a dire...
the one that is usually bundles with Windows!
vous aimez ca aussi?

Erique
{this response was pre- edited}

=====
erik at erikhansen.org    http://www.erikhansen.org

__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free web site building tool. Try it!
http://webhosting.yahoo.com/ps/sb/

From erikhans08 at yahoo.com  Mon Feb  2 22:47:53 2004
From: erikhans08 at yahoo.com (erik hansen)
Date: Mon, 2 Feb 2004 19:47:53 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Quicktime in Windows: best way to go?
In-Reply-To: <401E9358.3050303@bestweb.net>
Message-ID: <20040203034753.10916.qmail@web61101.mail.yahoo.com>

--- michael <jackass at bestweb.net> wrote:
> I thought flash player was not the greatest for
> showing video.  Maybe is 
> is better now.
> Generally speaking, VideoLAN
> (http://www.videolan.org/) is probably the 
> best cross-platform opensource media player out
> there.  I have always 
> preferred Quicktime player and format over
> other usual suspects.

thank you.

to clarify:
when you go into a public school computer lab
you will find PC's with Windows.
to play video or MIDI files you must
1. use something universally installed.
2. ask the lab to pay more money
3. use something that is freeware

what applies to education is close to what
applies to games and business presentations.

not arcane or OT.

Erik Hansen


=====
erik at erikhansen.org    http://www.erikhansen.org

__________________________________
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Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free web site building tool. Try it!
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From gbojsza at mac.com  Mon Feb  2 23:16:26 2004
From: gbojsza at mac.com (Bojsza)
Date: Mon, 2 Feb 2004 22:16:26 -0600
Subject: Setting Stack's Location
Message-ID: <BBCB3DBA-55FF-11D8-BB4F-003065F00EF2@mac.com>

It seems that this should be fairly easy ...I am trying to set a small 
sized stack at the location of an image of another stack that is much 
larger. I want the smaller stack to act as if it was an object of the 
larger stack (maintaining its position if the larger stack is moved, 
always on top of the larger stack etc).

Is there a "proper" way to approach this?

thanks,

Glen


From doug at webcrossing.com  Mon Feb  2 23:40:55 2004
From: doug at webcrossing.com (Doug Lerner)
Date: Tue, 03 Feb 2004 13:40:55 +0900
Subject: Setting Stack's Location
In-Reply-To: <BBCB3DBA-55FF-11D8-BB4F-003065F00EF2@mac.com>
Message-ID: <BC455567.252BC%doug@webcrossing.com>

You can create a "moveStack" handler. In the handler, change the position of
the other stack.

doug

On 2/3/04 1:16 PM, "Bojsza" <gbojsza at mac.com> wrote:

> It seems that this should be fairly easy ...I am trying to set a small
> sized stack at the location of an image of another stack that is much
> larger. I want the smaller stack to act as if it was an object of the
> larger stack (maintaining its position if the larger stack is moved,
> always on top of the larger stack etc).
> 
> Is there a "proper" way to approach this?
> 
> thanks,
> 
> Glen
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution


From doug at webcrossing.com  Tue Feb  3 00:08:58 2004
From: doug at webcrossing.com (Doug Lerner)
Date: Tue, 03 Feb 2004 14:08:58 +0900
Subject: What does the IDE know that the standalone doesn't know?
In-Reply-To: <BC453772.25287%doug@webcrossing.com>
Message-ID: <BC455BFA.252CA%doug@webcrossing.com>

Well, I stumbled upon the error in my script causing the problem and patched
it. I still don't know why the IDE was showing a different value. The value
in the standalone app was actually correct, though.

doug

On 2/3/04 11:33 AM, "Doug Lerner" <doug at webcrossing.com> wrote:

> This is a hard one to debug, because it works just fine in the IDE. But it
> doesn't in the standalone. Both OS X.
> 
> In the IDE, I grab a video frame and create an image in a stack containing
> that frame. Works just fine.
> 
> But in the standalone app, just a white image appears.
> 
> I am including the video library ("other") and the video grabber window
> itself works just fine in the standalone app.
> 
> Are there any general guidelines about what the IDE environment knows vs
> what the standalone app knows that might help debug something like this?
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> doug
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution


From mwieder at ahsoftware.net  Tue Feb  3 00:10:55 2004
From: mwieder at ahsoftware.net (Mark Wieder)
Date: Mon, 2 Feb 2004 21:10:55 -0800
Subject: List etiquette suggestion  [almost a flame]
In-Reply-To: <BC4322F1.3C72D%ambassador@fourthworld.com>
References: <BC4322F1.3C72D%ambassador@fourthworld.com>
Message-ID: <1218633693.20040202211055@ahsoftware.net>

Richard-

Sunday, February 1, 2004, 9:41:06 PM, you wrote:

>> i'll go back to the "pen and
>> paper" world that i spewed forth from ;-)

RG> Please don't, or we'd have no libSMTP or other cool tools from your presence
RG> in the ether. :)

We would, but we'd have to peel them off and stick them on the
envelopes ourselves, and the rates would go up every 18 months... <g>

-- 
-Mark Wieder
 mwieder at ahsoftware.net


From mwieder at ahsoftware.net  Tue Feb  3 00:18:19 2004
From: mwieder at ahsoftware.net (Mark Wieder)
Date: Mon, 2 Feb 2004 21:18:19 -0800
Subject: List etiquette suggestion
In-Reply-To: <BC41C403.1C902%bfr@nwlink.com>
References: <BC41C403.1C902%bfr@nwlink.com>
Message-ID: <18319077712.20040202211819@ahsoftware.net>

Bruce-

Saturday, January 31, 2004, 8:43:47 PM, you wrote:

BR> I thought that destroyed digest readers ability to parse messages and was
BR> distincly NOT reommended.

Hmmm - haven't heard this one before. Not that it seems to affect
MIME-encoded digests on any lists that I subscribe to. In fact, it is
the *preferred* method of trimming signatures on most. Sounds muchly
like an urban legend to me.

-- 
-Mark Wieder
 mwieder at ahsoftware.net


From alex at mindlube.com  Tue Feb  3 00:23:16 2004
From: alex at mindlube.com (Alex Rice)
Date: Mon, 2 Feb 2004 22:23:16 -0700
Subject: What does the IDE know that the standalone doesn't know?
In-Reply-To: <BC453772.25287%doug@webcrossing.com>
References: <BC453772.25287%doug@webcrossing.com>
Message-ID: <123C3E48-5609-11D8-AD0D-000393C4760A@mindlube.com>


On Feb 2, 2004, at 7:33 PM, Doug Lerner wrote:

> This is a hard one to debug, because it works just fine in the IDE. 
> But it
> doesn't in the standalone. Both OS X.
>
> In the IDE, I grab a video frame and create an image in a stack 
> containing
> that frame. Works just fine.
>
> But in the standalone app, just a white image appears.
>
> I am including the video library ("other") and the video grabber window
> itself works just fine in the standalone app.
>
> Are there any general guidelines about what the IDE environment knows 
> vs
> what the standalone app knows that might help debug something like 
> this?

One thing that we run into as Rev developers is that the Rev IDE is not 
really a discrete, separate app compared with the app under 
development. This results in weird stuff where the IDE like "go 
previous" opening up an IDE stack window instead of your app's stack 
window. Or the IDE asking you if you want to save some stack that is 
part of the IDE and not part of your app. Aside from this nebulous and 
annoying problem, here are some things that come to mind:

- the "startup" handler is not called in the development environment, 
but is called in a standalone.

- standalones have no error handling (see docs re: errorDialog message)

- IDE has all of the xml, database, video, etc. libraries already 
available, ready to go, but in standalones you have to arrange it 
yourself either through the distribution builder or through "the 
externals" property or "start using" for library stacks.

I haven't used the videograbber tools at all so can't offer any ideas 
on that.


--
Alex Rice | Mindlube Software | http://mindlube.com


From sarahr at genesearch.com.au  Tue Feb  3 00:33:47 2004
From: sarahr at genesearch.com.au (Sarah Reichelt)
Date: Tue, 3 Feb 2004 15:33:47 +1000
Subject: Setting Stack's Location
In-Reply-To: <BBCB3DBA-55FF-11D8-BB4F-003065F00EF2@mac.com>
References: <BBCB3DBA-55FF-11D8-BB4F-003065F00EF2@mac.com>
Message-ID: <89EBE5E3-560A-11D8-A2F8-0003937A97B8@genesearch.com.au>

You'll need to check out the globalLoc function. If you just set the 
loc of stack xxx to the loc of image yyy then it will be set relative 
to the top left of the screen instead of the top left of the main stack 
window.
Something like this:

on moveStack
   set the loc of stack "Sub" to globalLoc(the loc of image 1)
end moveStack

will work, but it doesn't move as you move the stack, it moves in a 
jump when you have finished. To get around this, you may have to remove 
the title bar from your main stack and write a custom move handler that 
records the mouseDown, follows the mouseMove and then stops moving on 
mouseUp.

I wrote an article in revJournal in December that analyzed Klaus 
Major's Xmas tree stack. It uses this technique for moving the stack 
around, so you might find it worth your while to check it out:
http://www.revjournal.com/comments.php?id=P64_0_1_0

Cheers,
Sarah
sarahr at genesearch.com.au
http://www.troz.net/Rev/

On 3 Feb 2004, at 2:18 pm, Bojsza wrote:

> It seems that this should be fairly easy ...I am trying to set a small 
> sized stack at the location of an image of another stack that is much 
> larger. I want the smaller stack to act as if it was an object of the 
> larger stack (maintaining its position if the larger stack is moved, 
> always on top of the larger stack etc).
>
> Is there a "proper" way to approach this?
>
> thanks,
>
> Glen
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>
>
>


From sarahr at genesearch.com.au  Tue Feb  3 00:37:18 2004
From: sarahr at genesearch.com.au (Sarah Reichelt)
Date: Tue, 3 Feb 2004 15:37:18 +1000
Subject: Three stage checkbox?
Message-ID: <0829AC52-560B-11D8-A2F8-0003937A97B8@genesearch.com.au>

Hi All,

I have a need for a three-stage checkbox, in my case signifying 
"Definite yes", "Definite no" and "Don't know yet". This needs to run 
on Macs only (OS 9 & X). I know that on Macs, you can have a checkbox 
that is either empty, ticked or has a line through it. If I could get 
those three options, I'd be fine but does anyone know how?

Failing this, I guess I'll have to use normal buttons and switch their 
icons instead, but a series of checkboxes is much easier to read & set.

TIA,
Sarah


From hershbp at realtorsgroup.us  Tue Feb  3 00:39:29 2004
From: hershbp at realtorsgroup.us (hershrev)
Date: Tue, 3 Feb 2004 00:39:29 -0500
Subject: no such object
In-Reply-To: <20040202211113.65693.qmail@web60502.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <5614DE80-560B-11D8-9071-0030654C1E62@realtorsgroup.us>

Thanks a million, beautiful, works good. The last one I didn't 
understand .
On Monday, February 2, 2004, at 04:11 PM, Jan Schenkel wrote:

> --- hershrev <hershbp at realtorsgroup.us> wrote:
>> I got that but the Ip add varies from time to time.
>> Is there a way to
>> send a message in a stack from a different stack ?
>> Thanks hershrev
>>
>
> Yes there is, and the command is called 'send' :
> --
>   send "someMessage" to stack "Foobar"
> --
>
> But if you're trying to trigger a handler in your
> mainstack, you may as well just use the handlername --
> the message path goes through the mainstack.
>
> So in your case, you could add a handler to your
> mainstack script :
> --
> on UpdateDB_IPAddress pNewAddress
>   put pNewAddress into field "IPAddress" of me
> end UpdateDB_IPAddress
> --
>
> And then from any of your substacks, you can do
> something like :
> --
>   UpdateDB_IPAddress "the.new.host"
> --
>
> Hope this helped,
>
> Jan Schenkel.
>
> =====
> "As we grow older, we grow both wiser and more foolish at the same 
> time."  (La Rochefoucauld)
>
> __________________________________
> Do you Yahoo!?
> Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free web site building tool. Try it!
> http://webhosting.yahoo.com/ps/sb/
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>


From dsc at swcp.com  Tue Feb  3 01:04:42 2004
From: dsc at swcp.com (Dar Scott)
Date: Mon, 2 Feb 2004 23:04:42 -0700
Subject: Three stage checkbox?
In-Reply-To: <0829AC52-560B-11D8-A2F8-0003937A97B8@genesearch.com.au>
Message-ID: <DC1BCDBA-560E-11D8-9A9E-000A9567A3E6@swcp.com>


On Monday, February 2, 2004, at 10:37 PM, Sarah Reichelt wrote:

> Failing this, I guess I'll have to use normal buttons and switch their 
> icons instead, but a series of checkboxes is much easier to read & > set.

But if you have the right pictures, won't these look exactly like the 
checkboxes you want?  Do these do things that you don't want, like move 
or highlight or something?

Dar


From sarahr at genesearch.com.au  Tue Feb  3 01:13:22 2004
From: sarahr at genesearch.com.au (Sarah Reichelt)
Date: Tue, 3 Feb 2004 16:13:22 +1000
Subject: Three stage checkbox?
In-Reply-To: <DC1BCDBA-560E-11D8-9A9E-000A9567A3E6@swcp.com>
References: <DC1BCDBA-560E-11D8-9A9E-000A9567A3E6@swcp.com>
Message-ID: <1195D632-5610-11D8-A2F8-0003937A97B8@genesearch.com.au>

On 3 Feb 2004, at 4:07 pm, Dar Scott wrote:

>
> On Monday, February 2, 2004, at 10:37 PM, Sarah Reichelt wrote:
>
>> Failing this, I guess I'll have to use normal buttons and switch 
>> their icons instead, but a series of checkboxes is much easier to 
>> read & > set.
>
> But if you have the right pictures, won't these look exactly like the 
> checkboxes you want?  Do these do things that you don't want, like 
> move or highlight or something?

I'm just lazy :-) I know what I want is available in the Mac interface, 
so I don't see why I should bother to re-create it. I also find it 
conceptually simpler to check for "the hilite = true" or "the hilite = 
mixed" rather than "the icon = 12345".

Cheers,
Sarah


From scott at tactilemedia.com  Tue Feb  3 01:12:58 2004
From: scott at tactilemedia.com (Scott Rossi)
Date: Mon, 02 Feb 2004 22:12:58 -0800
Subject: Player FileName from Loaded URL
Message-ID: <BC447BEA.988B%scott@tactilemedia.com>

[I asked a question similar to the following in the past without a
definitive answer so I thought I'd try again to see if there's any new
insight :-) ]

Is it possible to set the fileName of a player to a loaded URL?

I have script which loads the URL of an audio file into the local cache.
But if I try to set the fileName of a player to the loaded URL, the result
reads "could not open movie file".  This technique works with stacks but
apparently not with other file types.  Is it even possible to access the
local cache directly when the loaded file is something other than a stack?

I know I could write out the audio file to the drive, but I'd like to avoid
cluttering the user's drive with downloaded files. And even though I could
set the fileName of player directly to the Web-based address, there's no way
to then track the download progress of the audio file, as far as I can tell.

Any suggestions?

Thanks & Regards,

Scott Rossi
Creative Director
Tactile Media, Development & Design
-----
E: scott at tactilemedia.com
W: http://www.tactilemedia.com


From jackass at bestweb.net  Tue Feb  3 01:15:14 2004
From: jackass at bestweb.net (michael)
Date: Tue, 03 Feb 2004 01:15:14 -0500
Subject: Application Generators
Message-ID: <401F3C72.4030605@bestweb.net>

Hi,
I was curious if anyone can offer general feedback about this topic and 
also about using Revolution for this purpose.

Application generators or 'Consumer Authoring Products' can be produced 
for a wide variety of applications such as eBook Builders, Music/Video 
Wrappers,Secure/Private User Spaces,Portfolio Presentations and so on. 
These Consumer Authoring Products should 'generate' complete 
applications, like Revolution itself,  but are much easier to use than a 
general purpose authoring tool.  More like a Wizard Interface to quickly 
step through the stages until an application is generated.

So I wonder if/how Rev can go about making " lite " version clones of 
itself with only a strict set of functions for a defined purpose (eBook 
Creator, Media Wrapper).  And I assume there may be some licensing 
issues, depedning on how it is done ??
Not sure.  ie. cloneRevolution app makes special-purpose and 
cross-plaform executable applications... This is allowed, yes?

I would like to build a MediaWrapper and then later consider letting 
others use the wrapper under certain terms and conditions etc...

From hershbp at realtorsgroup.us  Tue Feb  3 01:15:47 2004
From: hershbp at realtorsgroup.us (hershrev)
Date: Tue, 3 Feb 2004 01:15:47 -0500
Subject: remote accell
Message-ID: <6806AA66-5610-11D8-9071-0030654C1E62@realtorsgroup.us>

Hi all,
I built a database solution (postgres) I can't connect from a different 
computer. The fire wall is off. The DB is situated on a Mac OS 10.2.9
Thanks hershrev


From monte at sweattechnologies.com  Tue Feb  3 01:20:01 2004
From: monte at sweattechnologies.com (Monte Goulding)
Date: Tue, 3 Feb 2004 16:50:01 +1030
Subject: Application Generators
In-Reply-To: <401F3C72.4030605@bestweb.net>
Message-ID: <FLEGJBMJADGKMCHIMFOHCEKDDPAA.monte@sweattechnologies.com>


> Hi,
> I was curious if anyone can offer general feedback about this topic and
> also about using Revolution for this purpose.
>
> Application generators or 'Consumer Authoring Products' can be produced
> for a wide variety of applications such as eBook Builders, Music/Video
> Wrappers,Secure/Private User Spaces,Portfolio Presentations and so on.
> These Consumer Authoring Products should 'generate' complete
> applications, like Revolution itself,  but are much easier to use than a
> general purpose authoring tool.  More like a Wizard Interface to quickly
> step through the stages until an application is generated.
>
> So I wonder if/how Rev can go about making " lite " version clones of
> itself with only a strict set of functions for a defined purpose (eBook
> Creator, Media Wrapper).  And I assume there may be some licensing
> issues, depedning on how it is done ??
> Not sure.  ie. cloneRevolution app makes special-purpose and
> cross-plaform executable applications... This is allowed, yes?
>
> I would like to build a MediaWrapper and then later consider letting
> others use the wrapper under certain terms and conditions etc...

Rev would be well suited to this purpose. Where you start running into
licensing issues is with scripting but you don't really need that for the
kind of apps you've suggested.

Cheers

Monte


From lists at mangomultimedia.com  Tue Feb  3 01:29:29 2004
From: lists at mangomultimedia.com (Trevor DeVore)
Date: Mon, 2 Feb 2004 23:29:29 -0700
Subject: Player FileName from Loaded URL
In-Reply-To: <BC447BEA.988B%scott@tactilemedia.com>
References: <BC447BEA.988B%scott@tactilemedia.com>
Message-ID: <522842FB-5612-11D8-A478-000A956C462A@mangomultimedia.com>

On Feb 2, 2004, at 11:12 PM, Scott Rossi wrote:
> ...
> I know I could write out the audio file to the drive, but I'd like to  
> avoid
> cluttering the user's drive with downloaded files. And even though I  
> could
> set the fileName of player directly to the Web-based address, there's  
> no way
> to then track the download progress of the audio file, as far as I can  
> tell.

If you are using QT then you can track the download status of a file in  
a player using my Enhanced QT external.  There is function call  
qtGetMaxLoadedTimeInMovie  
<http://mangomultimedia.com/developer/revolution/ 
enhancedqt_api.html#qtGetMaxLoadedTimeInMovie>


-- 
Trevor DeVore
Blue Mango Multimedia
trevor at mangomultimedia.com


From dsc at swcp.com  Tue Feb  3 01:35:36 2004
From: dsc at swcp.com (Dar Scott)
Date: Mon, 2 Feb 2004 23:35:36 -0700
Subject: Three stage checkbox?
In-Reply-To: <1195D632-5610-11D8-A2F8-0003937A97B8@genesearch.com.au>
Message-ID: <2D2FA884-5613-11D8-9A9E-000A9567A3E6@swcp.com>


On Monday, February 2, 2004, at 11:13 PM, Sarah Reichelt wrote:

> I'm just lazy :-)

Now, that I understand.

You can have a custom property of the button or group that has just the 
state value you want.

All of my ideas involve a little bit of work, but they should be 
reusable:

1.  Switch Icon IDs (as you suggested)

2.  Group a rectangle and some lines

3.  Three frame animated gif

4.  Some way to use the icon, highlight icon and visited icon settings 
without changing them?

5.  Group of three images

6.  Checkbox and image or rectangle in group


All this will look very silly if somebody mentions just the thing you 
want.

Dar


From sarahr at genesearch.com.au  Tue Feb  3 01:47:14 2004
From: sarahr at genesearch.com.au (Sarah Reichelt)
Date: Tue, 3 Feb 2004 16:47:14 +1000
Subject: Three stage checkbox?
In-Reply-To: <2D2FA884-5613-11D8-9A9E-000A9567A3E6@swcp.com>
References: <2D2FA884-5613-11D8-9A9E-000A9567A3E6@swcp.com>
Message-ID: <CCEEF247-5614-11D8-A2F8-0003937A97B8@genesearch.com.au>

On 3 Feb 2004, at 4:37 pm, Dar Scott wrote:

> 4.  Some way to use the icon, highlight icon and visited icon settings 
> without changing them?
>
This one looks interesting. I'll see if anyone comes up with a Mac 
answer overnight, otherwise I'll try this.

Thanks,
Sarah


From dsc at swcp.com  Tue Feb  3 01:55:59 2004
From: dsc at swcp.com (Dar Scott)
Date: Mon, 2 Feb 2004 23:55:59 -0700
Subject: Three stage checkbox?
In-Reply-To: <CCEEF247-5614-11D8-A2F8-0003937A97B8@genesearch.com.au>
Message-ID: <059DE484-5616-11D8-9A9E-000A9567A3E6@swcp.com>


On Monday, February 2, 2004, at 11:47 PM, Sarah Reichelt wrote:

>> 4.  Some way to use the icon, highlight icon and visited icon 
>> settings without changing them?
>>
> This one looks interesting. I'll see if anyone comes up with a Mac 
> answer overnight, otherwise I'll try this.

If the user cannot go back to the not-set-yet-state, you might be able 
to take advantage of that.

Maybe something like this:

icon        unknown
visited     unchecked
highlight   checked

Dar


From xbury.cs at clearstream.com  Tue Feb  3 02:07:40 2004
From: xbury.cs at clearstream.com (xbury.cs at clearstream.com)
Date: Tue, 3 Feb 2004 08:07:40 +0100
Subject: Stealth Browser release
Message-ID: <OF60A271BD.4BA6E219-ONC1256E2F.0026DB79-C1256E2F.0027282F@deutsche-boerse.de>

>You may want to rename your application.
>
>I think someone else is already using the name
>Stealth Browser.

thanks, I'll add an X somewhere... I just simply forgot...

>Do a search on the internet for it and you will find it.
>
>Do I really have to register on your website just to try this out?

here's why...
<http://monsieurx.com/modules.php?name=News&file=article&sid=108>

would this be an honest planet, you wouldn't have this...
but it's relatively painless and brainless...

>Good luck!

Thanks! I'll save it for the chickens...

>Rick Harrision
>
>_______________________________________________
>use-revolution mailing list
>use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
>http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution


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From shedrup at ms9.hinet.net  Tue Feb  3 02:43:55 2004
From: shedrup at ms9.hinet.net (Friedrich F. Grohmann)
Date: Tue, 3 Feb 2004 15:43:55 +0800
Subject: popup mystery
Message-ID: <200402030742.PAA14899@msr25.hinet.net>

I've created two identical popup buttons on the same card. The only 
difference between them consists in the language/font of the menu items: 
the items of popE are in English, those of popC in Chinese (with the 
button font specified as "Apple LiSung Light,Chinese").

popE displays all the items as expected, while popC behaves in a rather 
surprising fashion: a) the items, which appear perfectly fine in the 
button inspector, turn into the dreaded "garbage"; b) the button does not 
show up as a list at all, but depending on where one clicks individual 
lines appear.

Is there any way to overcome this unfortunate situation?

Working on a G4 PowerBook with Panther. 

Fritz

From joe.gardner at nwa.com  Tue Feb  3 03:20:49 2004
From: joe.gardner at nwa.com (Gardner, Joseph A)
Date: Tue, 3 Feb 2004 17:20:49 +0900
Subject: Changing the clickLine
Message-ID: <CF18E340C73DB74C930BB2473A7F5362239034@AMTYOK01.pad.nwa.com>

Hello group. Is there an easy way to change the clickLine? For example, I'd like to change "line 1 of field 1" to "line 2 of field 1". I've tried to put 2 into word 2 of the clickLine, but that just puts "2" into the field. Any advice on modifying the clickLine?

Many thanks in advance...

joe.

From janschenkel at yahoo.com  Tue Feb  3 03:43:41 2004
From: janschenkel at yahoo.com (Jan Schenkel)
Date: Tue, 3 Feb 2004 00:43:41 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Changing the clickLine
In-Reply-To: <CF18E340C73DB74C930BB2473A7F5362239034@AMTYOK01.pad.nwa.com>
Message-ID: <20040203084341.13984.qmail@web60505.mail.yahoo.com>

--- "Gardner, Joseph A" <joe.gardner at nwa.com> wrote:
> Hello group. Is there an easy way to change the
> clickLine? For example, I'd like to change "line 1
> of field 1" to "line 2 of field 1". I've tried to
> put 2 into word 2 of the clickLine, but that just
> puts "2" into the field. Any advice on modifying the
> clickLine?
> 
> Many thanks in advance...
> 
> joe.
> 

Hi Joe,

Let me first make an educated guess : are you trying
to change which line is hilited in a list field ?
If so, have a look at the hilitedLines property :
--
  set the hilitedLines of field "Foobar" to "3"
--
If not, could you explain your goal ?

Hope this helped,

Jan Schenkel.

=====
"As we grow older, we grow both wiser and more foolish at the same time."  (La Rochefoucauld)

__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free web site building tool. Try it!
http://webhosting.yahoo.com/ps/sb/

From martin at harbourtown.co.uk  Tue Feb  3 03:57:21 2004
From: martin at harbourtown.co.uk (Martin Baxter)
Date: Tue, 03 Feb 2004 08:57:21 +0000
Subject: Has anyone ever used the iconifyStack and unIconifyStack
In-Reply-To: <20040203044139.8C1CC9300FE@mail.runrev.com>
Message-ID: <l03130300bc451e1a664d@[62.25.144.212]>


> Thomas McGrath III wrote
>I want the main stack and it's substacks to minimize when one of them
>is minimized.
>The user may minimize either the main stack and then it's substacks
>that are open will minimize OR they may minimize a substack and the
>main stack & other substacks will minimize.
>
>I can't seem to figure it out.

>1. the dock shows multiple stacks minimized. Any way around that?

Don't know

>2. the iconifyStack message does not send ?? in 30 mills
>3. the uniconifyStack does not send to the other minimized stacks

It looks like you are treating uniconifyStack / iconifyStack messages as if
they were commands, but they are only event notification messages that the
system sends and don't really do anything.
Try setting the iconic property instead.
"set the iconic of stack "whatever" to false/true"
To minimise or maximise a stack

so: (untested - and off the top of my head)

on iconifyStack
  put the openstacks into tvar
  put the short name of this stack into myname
  repeat for each line i in tvar
    if i <> myname then
      set the iconic of stack i to true
    end if
  end repeat
end iconifystack

might do what you want

>4. the system seems to hang up and I have to force quit.
Perhaps your script is calling itself recursively. Hence in the script
above the check for the name of the current stack

HTH Martin



From ian at azurevision.co.uk  Tue Feb  3 05:15:42 2004
From: ian at azurevision.co.uk (Ian Wood)
Date: Tue, 3 Feb 2004 10:15:42 +0000
Subject: Accelerator Keys for Button Menu Items Broken on Panther?
In-Reply-To: <C7F3E8ED-1CAA-11D8-AD3E-000A959D0AC6@hindu.org>
References: <C7F3E8ED-1CAA-11D8-AD3E-000A959D0AC6@hindu.org>
Message-ID: <EC8FB6D4-5631-11D8-BD59-0003935A2896@azurevision.co.uk>

On 22 Nov 2003, at 05:14, Sannyasin Sivakatirswami wrote:
> I have a pulldown button "Find"
>
> with two items
>
> Find/F
> Find Again/G
>
> If one clicks on the button in Mac OSX  10.3.. the Cmd key symbol and 
> letter "F" and "G" appear as expected on the item list. Trouble is, 
> they don't work. They never did work for years in the IDE... and I 
> recall at one point they did start working if you suspended the IDE 
> from the Rev menus (I asked for that as a feature and it appeared to 
> be fixed at one point)  and they did work for sure in standalones.
>
> but now, both the two latter scenarios are broken under Panther: the 
> menuitem accelerator keys do not trigger the menu selection if you 
> have Dev tools suspended and, worse, they now also don't work in a 
> standalone built for Mac OSX

<snip>

I can confirm this with buttons as well as menus on 10.3.  Oddly 
enough, mnemonics DO work on Panther, even though the docs specifically 
say that they won't work on Mac OS.  This is in standalones as well as 
in the IDE, but of course the letter isn't underlined.

I suppose a workaround is to handle the commandKeyDown message with a 
series of if-thens for all the different combinations.

Can anyone else confirm this?  I can't find it on Bugzilla, but am 
about to add it.  I find it absolutely necessary for any kind of 
production app, so the workaround it is...

Ian


From doug at webcrossing.com  Tue Feb  3 05:19:59 2004
From: doug at webcrossing.com (Doug Lerner)
Date: Tue, 03 Feb 2004 19:19:59 +0900
Subject: video sample stack
Message-ID: <BC45A4DF.2534A%doug@webcrossing.com>

You know that video sample stack included with Revolution? It works on my OS
X system, but on a co-workers system the video grabber window never opens
up.

Both are the same OS X 10.3.1 systems. Both of us have an iSight camera.
Both of us can use the iSight for iChat AV. But the stack works on mine and
not on his.

Anybody know of more things that can be debugged with this?

Thanks,

doug


From ian at azurevision.co.uk  Tue Feb  3 05:36:55 2004
From: ian at azurevision.co.uk (Ian Wood)
Date: Tue, 3 Feb 2004 10:36:55 +0000
Subject: Accelerator Keys for Button Menu Items Broken on Panther?
In-Reply-To: <EC8FB6D4-5631-11D8-BD59-0003935A2896@azurevision.co.uk>
References: <C7F3E8ED-1CAA-11D8-AD3E-000A959D0AC6@hindu.org>
	<EC8FB6D4-5631-11D8-BD59-0003935A2896@azurevision.co.uk>
Message-ID: <E2F4F2A0-5634-11D8-BD59-0003935A2896@azurevision.co.uk>

<snip>
>> If one clicks on the button in Mac OSX  10.3.. the Cmd key symbol and  
>> letter "F" and "G" appear as expected on the item list. Trouble is,  
>> they don't work. They never did work for years in the IDE... and I  
>> recall at one point they did start working if you suspended the IDE  
>> from the Rev menus (I asked for that as a feature and it appeared to  
>> be fixed at one point)  and they did work for sure in standalones.
>>
>> but now, both the two latter scenarios are broken under Panther: the  
>> menuitem accelerator keys do not trigger the menu selection if you  
>> have Dev tools suspended and, worse, they now also don't work in a  
>> standalone built for Mac OSX
>
> <snip>
>
> I can confirm this with buttons as well as menus on 10.3.  Oddly  
> enough, mnemonics DO work on Panther, even though the docs  
> specifically say that they won't work on Mac OS.  This is in  
> standalones as well as in the IDE, but of course the letter isn't  
> underlined.
>
> I suppose a workaround is to handle the commandKeyDown message with a  
> series of if-thens for all the different combinations.
>
> Can anyone else confirm this?  I can't find it on Bugzilla, but am  
> about to add it.  I find it absolutely necessary for any kind of  
> production app, so the workaround it is...

This is now Bugzilla #1184.
http://www.runrev.com/revolution/developers/bugdatabase/show_bug.cgi? 
id=1184

Please vote if you find it a pain!

Ian


From janschenkel at yahoo.com  Tue Feb  3 05:46:49 2004
From: janschenkel at yahoo.com (Jan Schenkel)
Date: Tue, 3 Feb 2004 02:46:49 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Has anyone ever used the iconifyStack and unIconifyStack
In-Reply-To: <l03130300bc451e1a664d@[62.25.144.212]>
Message-ID: <20040203104649.48274.qmail@web60505.mail.yahoo.com>

--- Martin Baxter <martin at harbourtown.co.uk> wrote:
> 
> > Thomas McGrath III wrote
> >I want the main stack and it's substacks to
> minimize when one of them
> >is minimized.
> >The user may minimize either the main stack and
> then it's substacks
> >that are open will minimize OR they may minimize a
> substack and the
> >main stack & other substacks will minimize.
> >
> >I can't seem to figure it out.
> 
> >1. the dock shows multiple stacks minimized. Any
> way around that?
> 
> Don't know
> 
> >2. the iconifyStack message does not send ?? in 30
> mills
> >3. the uniconifyStack does not send to the other
> minimized stacks
> 
> It looks like you are treating uniconifyStack /
> iconifyStack messages as if
> they were commands, but they are only event
> notification messages that the
> system sends and don't really do anything.
> Try setting the iconic property instead.
> "set the iconic of stack "whatever" to false/true"
> To minimise or maximise a stack
> 
> so: (untested - and off the top of my head)
> 
> on iconifyStack
>   put the openstacks into tvar
>   put the short name of this stack into myname
>   repeat for each line i in tvar
>     if i <> myname then
>       set the iconic of stack i to true
>     end if
>   end repeat
> end iconifystack
> 
> might do what you want
> 
> >4. the system seems to hang up and I have to force
> quit.
> Perhaps your script is calling itself recursively.
> Hence in the script
> above the check for the name of the current stack
> 
> HTH Martin
> 

I'd like to chime in for a second, as Martin is
correct in assuming that this runs off into an
infinite loop : if the substack doesn't have an
iconifyStack handler of its own, the mainstack will
get the same message again.
So the solution is probably along the lines of :
--
local sBusyIconifying
on iconifyStack
  -- exit if we're already iconifying
  if sBusyIconifying is true
  then exit iconifyStack
  else put true into sBusyIconifying
  -- now that we've set the flag
  -- proceed by iconifying the other stacks
  put the openstacks into tvar
  put the short name of this stack into myname
  repeat for each line i in tvar
    if i <> myname then
      set the iconic of stack i to true
    end if
  end repeat
  -- clear the flag again for next time
  put false into sBusyIconfying
end iconifystack
--

Hipe this helped,

Jan Schenkel.

=====
"As we grow older, we grow both wiser and more foolish at the same time."  (La Rochefoucauld)

__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free web site building tool. Try it!
http://webhosting.yahoo.com/ps/sb/

From janschenkel at yahoo.com  Tue Feb  3 05:55:05 2004
From: janschenkel at yahoo.com (Jan Schenkel)
Date: Tue, 3 Feb 2004 02:55:05 -0800 (PST)
Subject: remote accell
In-Reply-To: <6806AA66-5610-11D8-9071-0030654C1E62@realtorsgroup.us>
Message-ID: <20040203105505.50799.qmail@web60505.mail.yahoo.com>

--- hershrev <hershbp at realtorsgroup.us> wrote:
> Hi all,
> I built a database solution (postgres) I can't
> connect from a different 
> computer. The fire wall is off. The DB is situated
> on a Mac OS 10.2.9
> Thanks hershrev
> 

A few questions come to mind :
- are you using your own scripts or rather the
database-linked controls ?
- what revdb error do you receive ?

Jan Schenkel.

=====
"As we grow older, we grow both wiser and more foolish at the same time."  (La Rochefoucauld)

__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free web site building tool. Try it!
http://webhosting.yahoo.com/ps/sb/

From signe.sanne at roman.uib.no  Tue Feb  3 06:27:42 2004
From: signe.sanne at roman.uib.no (Signe Marie Sanne)
Date: Tue, 03 Feb 2004 12:27:42 +0100
Subject: Player FileName from Loaded URL
In-Reply-To: <BC447BEA.988B%scott@tactilemedia.com>
Message-ID: <5.2.0.8.2.20040203122055.02005bc8@alf.uib.no>

At 22:12 02.02.2004 -0800, you wrote:
>[I asked a question similar to the following in the past without a
>definitive answer so I thought I'd try again to see if there's any new
>insight :-) ]
>
>Is it possible to set the fileName of a player to a loaded URL?
>
>I have script which loads the URL of an audio file into the local cache.
>But if I try to set the fileName of a player to the loaded URL, the result
>reads "could not open movie file".  This technique works with stacks but
>apparently not with other file types.  Is it even possible to access the
>local cache directly when the loaded file is something other than a stack?
>
>I know I could write out the audio file to the drive, but I'd like to avoid
>cluttering the user's drive with downloaded files.

I use this technique after downloading the audio file:

  put urlStatus(tUrl) into stat
  if stat contains "cached" then
     put url tUrl into var
     put "binfile:" & the directory & "/sfp.wav" into filnavn
     put decompress(var) into url filnavn --Generates a audio file with the 
name "sfp.wav"
     put the directory & "/sfp.wav" into lydfil
     play lydfil
     unload url tUrl
     delete file lydfil --Deletes the local audio file
     exit updateme
   end if

Regards
Signe Marie Sanne

1. amanuensis Signe Marie Sanne      e-mail: signe.sanne at roman.uib.no
Romansk Institutt                            tel:  +47 55 58 21 27
?isteins gt. 1
5007 Bergen             http://www.hf.uib.no/hfolk/mlab/hjem/default.html
Norway


From ambassador at fourthworld.com  Tue Feb  3 06:39:13 2004
From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin)
Date: Tue, 03 Feb 2004 03:39:13 -0800
Subject: Player FileName from Loaded URL
In-Reply-To: <BC447BEA.988B%scott@tactilemedia.com>
Message-ID: <BC44C860.3C887%ambassador@fourthworld.com>

Scott Rossi wrote:

> Is it possible to set the fileName of a player to a loaded URL?
> 
> I have script which loads the URL of an audio file into the local cache.
> But if I try to set the fileName of a player to the loaded URL, the result
> reads "could not open movie file".  This technique works with stacks but
> apparently not with other file types.  Is it even possible to access the
> local cache directly when the loaded file is something other than a stack?
> 
> I know I could write out the audio file to the drive, but I'd like to avoid
> cluttering the user's drive with downloaded files. And even though I could
> set the fileName of player directly to the Web-based address, there's no way
> to then track the download progress of the audio file, as far as I can tell.

If you create a SMIL wrapper for it you automatic fast-start "streaming".
Remote M3U's seem to be handled similarly by QT.

One caveat with streamed media in Rev players:  _very_ spotty updating of
the controller, in circumstances that work great for local media.  I've had
mixed results getting the controller to update properly, but no problem
actually playing the media.

-- 
 Richard Gaskin 
 Fourth World Media Corporation
 ___________________________________________________________
 Ambassador at FourthWorld.com       http://www.FourthWorld.com


From bvg at mac.com  Tue Feb  3 07:26:35 2004
From: bvg at mac.com (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Bj=F6rnke_von_Gierke?=)
Date: Tue, 3 Feb 2004 13:26:35 +0100
Subject: Three stage checkbox?
In-Reply-To: <0829AC52-560B-11D8-A2F8-0003937A97B8@genesearch.com.au>
Message-ID: <352403E8-5644-11D8-81A9-003065AD94A4@mac.com>

Any form of one object having three stages is confusing and extremely 
nonstandard. Use 3 radiobuttons instead. Short description about how to 
do that:
1. make 3 radiobuttons, name them "Yes", "No" and "Don't know"
2. group them
3. use the "hilitedButtonName" of the group like this:
put the hilitedButtonName into AnswerToThreefoldQuestion

As for the line-trough checkboxes:
They should only be used in cases where you have a hierarchy of 
checkboxes and indicate that some, but not all of the checkboxes in the 
branch of the lined checkbox have been checked.
See also the screensaver activation preference in Mac OS X. They need 
to include a lengthy explanation about why there are three states of 
these checkboxes.

On Dienstag, Feb 3, 2004, at 06:37 Europe/Zurich, Sarah Reichelt wrote:

> Hi All,
>
> I have a need for a three-stage checkbox, in my case signifying 
> "Definite yes", "Definite no" and "Don't know yet". This needs to run 
> on Macs only (OS 9 & X). I know that on Macs, you can have a checkbox 
> that is either empty, ticked or has a line through it. If I could get 
> those three options, I'd be fine but does anyone know how?
>
> Failing this, I guess I'll have to use normal buttons and switch their 
> icons instead, but a series of checkboxes is much easier to read & > set.
>
> TIA,
> Sarah
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>


From doug at webcrossing.com  Tue Feb  3 08:54:52 2004
From: doug at webcrossing.com (Doug Lerner)
Date: Tue, 03 Feb 2004 22:54:52 +0900
Subject: Video_Input.rev and OS X 10.3.2?
Message-ID: <BC45D73C.2537A%doug@webcrossing.com>

I am running OS X 10.3.1. If I try the Video_Input.rev stack in the
Revolution "Sample Stacks" folder it works.

But a co-worker is running 10.3.2 and he cannot get the video grabber to
open.

Can anybody else confirm that that sample stack runs properly in 10.3.2?

Thanks,

doug


From 3mcgrath at adelphia.net  Tue Feb  3 09:38:36 2004
From: 3mcgrath at adelphia.net (Thomas McGrath III)
Date: Tue, 3 Feb 2004 09:38:36 -0500
Subject: video sample stack
In-Reply-To: <BC45A4DF.2534A%doug@webcrossing.com>
References: <BC45A4DF.2534A%doug@webcrossing.com>
Message-ID: <A60873D6-5656-11D8-9D74-000A95DA60FA@adelphia.net>

DId you build it as a stand alone for his computer?
If so you need to include the videograb library with it. The video grab 
library is a seperate file once built.

Tom

On Feb 3, 2004, at 5:19 AM, Doug Lerner wrote:

> You know that video sample stack included with Revolution? It works on 
> my OS
> X system, but on a co-workers system the video grabber window never 
> opens
> up.
>
> Both are the same OS X 10.3.1 systems. Both of us have an iSight 
> camera.
> Both of us can use the iSight for iChat AV. But the stack works on 
> mine and
> not on his.
>
> Anybody know of more things that can be debugged with this?
>
> Thanks,
>
> doug
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>
>

Thomas J. McGrath III
SCS
1000 Killarney Dr.
Pittsburgh, PA 15234
412-885-8541


From 3mcgrath at adelphia.net  Tue Feb  3 09:43:41 2004
From: 3mcgrath at adelphia.net (Thomas McGrath III)
Date: Tue, 3 Feb 2004 09:43:41 -0500
Subject: Has anyone ever used the iconifyStack and unIconifyStack
In-Reply-To: <20040203104649.48274.qmail@web60505.mail.yahoo.com>
References: <20040203104649.48274.qmail@web60505.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <5C61E6E6-5657-11D8-9D74-000A95DA60FA@adelphia.net>

Thanks for replying Jan and Martin,

I will try these this morning and see.

IMO
the iconic seems like a property and not a command
and
iconifyStack seems like a command not just a message

That's probably why I got it confused. and I didn't even think of a 
recursion here

Thanks

Tom

On Feb 3, 2004, at 5:46 AM, Jan Schenkel wrote:

>
> local sBusyIconifying
> on iconifyStack
>   -- exit if we're already iconifying
>   if sBusyIconifying is true
>   then exit iconifyStack
>   else put true into sBusyIconifying
>   -- now that we've set the flag
>   -- proceed by iconifying the other stacks
>   put the openstacks into tvar
>   put the short name of this stack into myname
>   repeat for each line i in tvar
>     if i <> myname then
>       set the iconic of stack i to true
>     end if
>   end repeat
>   -- clear the flag again for next time
>   put false into sBusyIconfying
> end iconifystack
>

Thomas J. McGrath III
SCS
1000 Killarney Dr.
Pittsburgh, PA 15234
412-885-8541


From doug at webcrossing.com  Tue Feb  3 09:51:46 2004
From: doug at webcrossing.com (Doug Lerner)
Date: Tue, 03 Feb 2004 23:51:46 +0900
Subject: video sample stack
In-Reply-To: <A60873D6-5656-11D8-9D74-000A95DA60FA@adelphia.net>
Message-ID: <BC45E492.2538C%doug@webcrossing.com>

On 2/3/04 11:38 PM, "Thomas McGrath III" <3mcgrath at adelphia.net> wrote:

> DId you build it as a stand alone for his computer?

Yes. He and I are both OS X.

> If so you need to include the videograb library with it. The video grab
> library is a seperate file once built.

I did. The standalone works on my computer. But...since you mention that it
is a separate file that must be it. I see. It is in the "data" folder that
is also created. Naru hodo.

Thanks!


doug


> 
> Tom
> 
> On Feb 3, 2004, at 5:19 AM, Doug Lerner wrote:
> 
>> You know that video sample stack included with Revolution? It works on
>> my OS
>> X system, but on a co-workers system the video grabber window never
>> opens
>> up.
>> 
>> Both are the same OS X 10.3.1 systems. Both of us have an iSight
>> camera.
>> Both of us can use the iSight for iChat AV. But the stack works on
>> mine and
>> not on his.
>> 
>> Anybody know of more things that can be debugged with this?
>> 
>> Thanks,
>> 
>> doug
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> use-revolution mailing list
>> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>> 
>> 
> 
> Thomas J. McGrath III
> SCS
> 1000 Killarney Dr.
> Pittsburgh, PA 15234
> 412-885-8541
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution


From 3mcgrath at adelphia.net  Tue Feb  3 09:57:34 2004
From: 3mcgrath at adelphia.net (Thomas McGrath III)
Date: Tue, 3 Feb 2004 09:57:34 -0500
Subject: video sample stack
In-Reply-To: <BC45E492.2538C%doug@webcrossing.com>
References: <BC45E492.2538C%doug@webcrossing.com>
Message-ID: <4CE8028C-5659-11D8-9D74-000A95DA60FA@adelphia.net>

No problem Doug

later,

Tom

On Feb 3, 2004, at 9:51 AM, Doug Lerner wrote:

> On 2/3/04 11:38 PM, "Thomas McGrath III" <3mcgrath at adelphia.net> wrote:
>
>> DId you build it as a stand alone for his computer?
>
> Yes. He and I are both OS X.
>
>> If so you need to include the videograb library with it. The video 
>> grab
>> library is a seperate file once built.
>
> I did. The standalone works on my computer. But...since you mention 
> that it
> is a separate file that must be it. I see. It is in the "data" folder 
> that
> is also created. Naru hodo.
>
> Thanks!
>
>
> doug
>
>
>>
>> Tom
>>
>> On Feb 3, 2004, at 5:19 AM, Doug Lerner wrote:
>>
>>> You know that video sample stack included with Revolution? It works 
>>> on
>>> my OS
>>> X system, but on a co-workers system the video grabber window never
>>> opens
>>> up.
>>>
>>> Both are the same OS X 10.3.1 systems. Both of us have an iSight
>>> camera.
>>> Both of us can use the iSight for iChat AV. But the stack works on
>>> mine and
>>> not on his.
>>>
>>> Anybody know of more things that can be debugged with this?
>>>
>>> Thanks,
>>>
>>> doug
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> use-revolution mailing list
>>> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>>>
>>>
>>
>> Thomas J. McGrath III
>> SCS
>> 1000 Killarney Dr.
>> Pittsburgh, PA 15234
>> 412-885-8541
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> use-revolution mailing list
>> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>
>

Thomas J. McGrath III
SCS
1000 Killarney Dr.
Pittsburgh, PA 15234
412-885-8541


From revlist at cableone.net  Tue Feb  3 10:46:48 2004
From: revlist at cableone.net (Chris Sheffield)
Date: Tue, 3 Feb 2004 08:46:48 -0700
Subject: kerning
In-Reply-To: <8831A34C-55D7-11D8-9A9E-000A9567A3E6@swcp.com>
Message-ID: <000a01c3ea6c$efb48aa0$64fea8c0@chris1>

You would think this would work, but it doesn't seem to do anything.  Could
only work with certain fonts?  I tried both expanded and condensed with
Arial and the standard system font on Windows, and it didn't to anything.  A
bug maybe?  Thanks for the suggestion though.

Chris Sheffield
Software Development
Read Naturally
 


-----Original Message-----
From: use-revolution-bounces at lists.runrev.com
[mailto:use-revolution-bounces at lists.runrev.com] On Behalf Of Dar Scott
Sent: Monday, February 02, 2004 4:29 PM
To: How to use Revolution
Subject: Re: kerning



On Monday, February 2, 2004, at 04:01 PM, Chris Sheffield wrote:

> Is there anyway to control kerning in Revolution?

Would expanded and condensed help?  These might have platform 
dependencies.

Dar scott

_______________________________________________
use-revolution mailing list
use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution

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From rcozens at pon.net  Tue Feb  3 09:50:06 2004
From: rcozens at pon.net (Rob Cozens)
Date: Tue, 3 Feb 2004 07:50:06 -0700
Subject: Application Generators
In-Reply-To: <401F3C72.4030605@bestweb.net>
References: <401F3C72.4030605@bestweb.net>
Message-ID: <a05100300bc454f51c1b8@[66.52.165.190]>

>I was curious if anyone can offer general feedback about this topic 
>and also about using Revolution for this purpose.

Hi Michael,

In a third of a century of programming I have worked with several 
application generators, from Data General's IDEA in the 1970s to 
Microfinancial Corp's FlexWare in the 1980s & 90s.  I also spent some 
time in the mid 1990s playing with a HyperTalk AppGen design.

Your post forces me to show my hand a little earlier that I wanted: 
expect a release of Serendipity Library with AppGen features in about 
a week [look for the subject, "How RAD is SDB?"].

When this version is released, the steps involved in creating a 
database application in Revolution are:

1. Create a front-end stack with one card for each record type the 
application needs.  Make label fields shared text and record fields 
unshared text.

2. Use the new SDB Tools developer plugin to create the application database--
    A. Enter the db name & select its folder via an ask file dialog
    B. Enter & verify the db edit password (optional)
    C  Enter & verify the db browse password (if edit password is set)

3. Select the SDB Dictionary menuItem from SDB Tools' Edit menu, open 
the new database, and enter the db edit password (if any).

4. Select the Record Type From Card menuItem of SDB Dictionary's File 
menu, select the front-end stack created in Step 1, and select the 
desired card from the pop up on the Type From Stack dialog, and click 
on the "Thumbs Up" button..

5. The Data Dictionary will now read through all fields on the card. 
Each time a field with unshared text is encountered, the field is 
displayed in the Dictionary window with default attributes.  The 
developer can add the field as defaulted, change one or more field 
attributes & then add the field, or bypass the field & leave it out 
of the record definition.  Once all fields have been processed, the 
new record definition is added to the database.

All record fields on the selected card of the front end stack now 
have an sdbFieldName property set.  The syntax for the property is 
[record type] & ":" & [field name].

Record Type From Card will optionally place handlers needed to 
support SDB access of the db in the appropriate scripts, and menus & 
other controls can also be added as necessary.  Record Type From Card 
offers two alternative UIs: the "SDB Interface" (which opens one 
field at a time, edits each keystroke on input,  reformats the input 
on closeField, and requires a specific user action to file new or 
changed records & delete a record), and the "HyperCard Interface" 
(which leaves all fields unlocked, does no input editing or 
reformatting, and updates the db automatically...but NOT 
field-by-field on closeField).

6. Repeat Step 5 with each card in the stack.

7. Use the Distribution Builder to build the application, and viola!, 
you have a single-user SDB database application ready to run.

Oh! You want a multi-user client application to run with SDB Server?

In that case, you must change the front-end stack's rIPCMode property 
from "dc" to "tp" and add an sdbServerAddress property before Step 7. 
Serendipity Library includes a dialog stack, sdbIPCMode, which can be 
used to do this.

Bottom line: Since the RunRev development environment allows scripted 
manipulation of control handlers AND their scripts, it is an 
excellent environment for creating an in-house application generator 
plugin STACK.  OTOH, since this type of manipulation is not supported 
in the runtime environment, I suspect it is difficult, if not 
impossible, to create an AppGen standalone that will work without the 
development environment.
-- 

Rob Cozens
CCW, Serendipity Software Company
http://www.oenolog.net/who.htm

"And I, which was two fooles, do so grow three;
Who are a little wise, the best fooles bee."

from "The Triple Foole" by John Donne (1572-1631)

From revlist at cableone.net  Tue Feb  3 10:54:55 2004
From: revlist at cableone.net (Chris Sheffield)
Date: Tue, 3 Feb 2004 08:54:55 -0700
Subject: exit preOpenCard
In-Reply-To: <BC4418B2.9EF7%scott@tactilemedia.com>
Message-ID: <000b01c3ea6e$11fd4920$64fea8c0@chris1>

Thanks, Scott.  "exit to top" works perfectly.  Not sure why I didn't try
that.  I guess I just figured it would have a similar effect and essentially
stop all handlers from finishing.

Chris Sheffield
Software Development
Read Naturally
 


-----Original Message-----
From: use-revolution-bounces at lists.runrev.com
[mailto:use-revolution-bounces at lists.runrev.com] On Behalf Of Scott Rossi
Sent: Monday, February 02, 2004 4:10 PM
To: How to use Revolution
Subject: Re: exit preOpenCard


What happens if you use "exit to top" instead of "exit preOpenCard"?

Regards,

Scott Rossi
Creative Director
Tactile Media, Multimedia & Design
-----
E: scott at tactilemedia.com
W: http://www.tactilemedia.com

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From martin at harbourtown.co.uk  Tue Feb  3 10:50:10 2004
From: martin at harbourtown.co.uk (Martin Baxter)
Date: Tue, 3 Feb 2004 16:50:10 +0100
Subject: use-revolution Digest, Vol 5, Issue 16
In-Reply-To: <20040203145231.94993930122@mail.runrev.com>
Message-ID: <l03130300bc4571c1d019@[62.136.245.1]>

>I'd like to chime in for a second, as Martin is
>correct in assuming that this runs off into an
>infinite loop : if the substack doesn't have an
>iconifyStack handler of its own, the mainstack will
>get the same message again.
>So the solution is probably along the lines of :
>--
>local sBusyIconifying
>on iconifyStack
>  -- exit if we're already iconifying
>  if sBusyIconifying is true
>  then exit iconifyStack
>  else put true into sBusyIconifying
>  -- now that we've set the flag
>  -- proceed by iconifying the other stacks
>  put the openstacks into tvar
>  put the short name of this stack into myname
>  repeat for each line i in tvar
>    if i <> myname then
>      set the iconic of stack i to true
>    end if
>  end repeat
>  -- clear the flag again for next time
>  put false into sBusyIconfying
>end iconifystack
>--
>
>Hipe this helped,
>
>Jan Schenkel.

I also thought at first this would be true, but on investigation it seems
that iconifyStack and uniconifyStack are only sent when the *user*
minimises/maximises, and not when a script sets the iconic property.

So theoretically I think it ought to be safe just to set the iconic
property of each of the openstacks, without any of the anti-recursion stuff.

Martin



From gbojsza at mac.com  Tue Feb  3 11:05:29 2004
From: gbojsza at mac.com (Bojsza)
Date: Tue, 3 Feb 2004 10:05:29 -0600
Subject: Rev Example Database Build for Linux
Message-ID: <C97FFB58-5662-11D8-A9F8-003065F00EF2@mac.com>

I am trying to build the example database from the Rev tutorial to run 
as a standalone for Linux.The Splash screen comes up , followed by the 
Welcome screen where I can open and existing database or create a new 
database...after either one of the selections the Welcome Screen closes 
but the Employee database screen does not appear. I check and the 
application process is still running so I kill it manually.

The Build works fine for OSX.

Any thoughts on Linux builds?

thanks,

Glen


From janschenkel at yahoo.com  Tue Feb  3 11:12:21 2004
From: janschenkel at yahoo.com (Jan Schenkel)
Date: Tue, 3 Feb 2004 08:12:21 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Rev Example Database Build for Linux
In-Reply-To: <C97FFB58-5662-11D8-A9F8-003065F00EF2@mac.com>
Message-ID: <20040203161221.92173.qmail@web60508.mail.yahoo.com>

--- Bojsza <gbojsza at mac.com> wrote:
> I am trying to build the example database from the
> Rev tutorial to run 
> as a standalone for Linux.The Splash screen comes up
> , followed by the 
> Welcome screen where I can open and existing
> database or create a new 
> database...after either one of the selections the
> Welcome Screen closes 
> but the Employee database screen does not appear. I
> check and the 
> application process is still running so I kill it
> manually.
> 
> The Build works fine for OSX.
> 
> Any thoughts on Linux builds?
> 
> thanks,
> 
> Glen
> 

Hi Glen,

This is a long shot, but it could be that the stack is
somewhere off-screen. Could you add the following line
to the 'openStack' handler of your splash screen :
--
  answer the windowBoundingRect
--

If any of the numbers in the windowBoundingRect is
negative, there's a good chance the new stack is
floating around off-screen.

Hope this helped,

Jan Schenkel.

=====
"As we grow older, we grow both wiser and more foolish at the same time."  (La Rochefoucauld)

__________________________________
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From rcozens at pon.net  Tue Feb  3 10:44:17 2004
From: rcozens at pon.net (Rob Cozens)
Date: Tue, 3 Feb 2004 08:44:17 -0700
Subject: Application Generators
Message-ID: <a05100301bc457137b8af@[66.52.165.44]>

>expect a release of Serendipity Library with AppGen features in about a week

If anyone is interested in testing a pre-release version of the SDB 
Tools plugin, contact me privately.  I should be in a position to 
provide a download URL in 24-36 hours.

Rob Cozens
CCW, Serendipity Software Company
http://www.oenolog.net/who.htm

"And I, which was two fooles, do so grow three;
Who are a little wise, the best fooles bee."

from "The Triple Foole" by John Donne (1572-1631)

From gbojsza at mac.com  Tue Feb  3 12:36:32 2004
From: gbojsza at mac.com (Bojsza)
Date: Tue, 3 Feb 2004 11:36:32 -0600
Subject: Rev Example Database Build for Linux
Message-ID: <81D8087B-566F-11D8-A9F8-003065F00EF2@mac.com>

Thanks, this helped !

This is a long shot, but it could be that the stack is
somewhere off-screen. Could you add the following line
to the 'openStack' handler of your splash screen :
--
   answer the windowBoundingRect
--

If any of the numbers in the windowBoundingRect is
negative, there's a good chance the new stack is
floating around off-screen.

Hope this helped,

Jan Schenkel. 

From dsc at swcp.com  Tue Feb  3 12:56:17 2004
From: dsc at swcp.com (Dar Scott)
Date: Tue, 3 Feb 2004 10:56:17 -0700
Subject: Three stage checkbox?
In-Reply-To: <352403E8-5644-11D8-81A9-003065AD94A4@mac.com>
Message-ID: <442FE321-5672-11D8-8947-000A9567A3E6@swcp.com>


On Tuesday, February 3, 2004, at 05:26 AM, Bj?rnke von Gierke wrote:

> Any form of one object having three stages is confusing and extremely 
> nonstandard. Use 3 radiobuttons instead. Short description about how 
> to do that:
> 1. make 3 radiobuttons, name them "Yes", "No" and "Don't know"
> 2. group them
> 3. use the "hilitedButtonName" of the group like this:
> put the hilitedButtonName into AnswerToThreefoldQuestion

The problem with the above set is that it does not give the impression 
of "yes", "no" and "you haven't set this up yet".

I have seen this addressed with two radio buttons (or more) with none 
selected until the user clicks the first one.  After that it works like 
a radio button group.

I think this might be a hole in HIG, but others would know better than 
I.

Another approach is to dim Done or Save until the user explicitly 
selects an option.

All this assumes that there is something wrong with simply using 
default values, which might be the case in some situations.

Dar Scott


From dsc at swcp.com  Tue Feb  3 13:06:12 2004
From: dsc at swcp.com (Dar Scott)
Date: Tue, 3 Feb 2004 11:06:12 -0700
Subject: kerning
In-Reply-To: <000a01c3ea6c$efb48aa0$64fea8c0@chris1>
Message-ID: <A68C7958-5673-11D8-8947-000A9567A3E6@swcp.com>


On Tuesday, February 3, 2004, at 08:46 AM, Chris Sheffield wrote:

> You would think this would work, but it doesn't seem to do anything.  
> Could
> only work with certain fonts?  I tried both expanded and condensed with
> Arial and the standard system font on Windows, and it didn't to 
> anything.  A
> bug maybe?

I tried expanded on OS X and all it seemed to do was turn off 
smoothing.  It might be changing the font, too, I'm not sure.

Maybe this is why expanded and condensed are not in the IDE menu.

Here is an (admittedly, somewhat painful) idea:  imageSource for 
kerning wedges

Dar Scott




From gbojsza at mac.com  Tue Feb  3 14:25:36 2004
From: gbojsza at mac.com (Bojsza)
Date: Tue, 3 Feb 2004 13:25:36 -0600
Subject: Encryption of Saved Stack of Standalone (Linux)
Message-ID: <BE39C08C-567E-11D8-A9F8-003065F00EF2@mac.com>

I am trying to figure out if it is possible to encrypt a saved stack 
that is created from a standalone. When I build  the distribution for 
the Rev Employee database example I check "Encrypt with password" in 
the stacks tab and this works fine for the stacks in the build (the 
stacks are : EmpDB, About, DocTemplate, Splash Screen).

But I noticed that the standalone creates a clone stack of the 
DocTemplate stack where the user's data is stored but it it is NOT 
encrypted? Since it is a cloned stack it shows much of the scripting.

Is there a way to have the standalone create stacks that are encrypted 
using the same password that was used for the distribution build?

thanks,

Glen


From erikhans08 at yahoo.com  Tue Feb  3 14:31:19 2004
From: erikhans08 at yahoo.com (erik hansen)
Date: Tue, 3 Feb 2004 11:31:19 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Three stage checkbox?
In-Reply-To: <2D2FA884-5613-11D8-9A9E-000A9567A3E6@swcp.com>
Message-ID: <20040203193119.76588.qmail@web61102.mail.yahoo.com>

--- Dar Scott <dsc at swcp.com> wrote:

> You can have a custom property of the button or
> group that has just the 
> state value you want.
> 
> All of my ideas involve a little bit of work,
> but they should be 
> reusable:
> 
> 1.  Switch Icon IDs (as you suggested)
> 
> 2.  Group a rectangle and some lines
> 
> 3.  Three frame animated gif
> 
> 4.  Some way to use the icon, highlight icon
> and visited icon settings 
> without changing them?
> 
> 5.  Group of three images
> 
> 6.  Checkbox and image or rectangle in group
> 
> 
> All this will look very silly if somebody
> mentions just the thing you want.

still useful for many things!




=====
erik at erikhansen.org    http://www.erikhansen.org

__________________________________
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From dsc at swcp.com  Tue Feb  3 14:42:26 2004
From: dsc at swcp.com (Dar Scott)
Date: Tue, 3 Feb 2004 12:42:26 -0700
Subject: Encryption of Saved Stack of Standalone (Linux)
In-Reply-To: <BE39C08C-567E-11D8-A9F8-003065F00EF2@mac.com>
Message-ID: <187021AE-5681-11D8-8947-000A9567A3E6@swcp.com>


On Tuesday, February 3, 2004, at 12:25 PM, Bojsza wrote:

> Is there a way to have the standalone create stacks that are encrypted 
> using the same password that was used for the distribution build?

Does this have to be the same password?  If the password was put into 
the script and the build is encrypted, then wouldn't that password be 
as protected as everything else?

Dar Scott


From gbojsza at mac.com  Tue Feb  3 14:52:06 2004
From: gbojsza at mac.com (Bojsza)
Date: Tue, 3 Feb 2004 13:52:06 -0600
Subject: Encryption of Saved Stack of Standalone (Linux)
Message-ID: <720F345C-5682-11D8-A9F8-003065F00EF2@mac.com>

It doesn't have to be the same password. I just want to have the stacks 
that are created by a standalone to be encrypted. So, if I placed a 
password field with a password in it and had that placed in the stack 
that is part of the distribution build can it be used to encrypt any 
stacks created?

Does this have to be the same password?  If the password was put into
the script and the build is encrypted, then wouldn't that password be
as protected as everything else?

Dar Scott 

From JimCarwardine at OwnYourFuture-net.com  Tue Feb  3 14:49:02 2004
From: JimCarwardine at OwnYourFuture-net.com (Jim Carwardine)
Date: Tue, 03 Feb 2004 15:49:02 -0400
Subject: Three stage checkbox?
In-Reply-To: <0829AC52-560B-11D8-A2F8-0003937A97B8@genesearch.com.au>
Message-ID: <BC45736D.4D99%JimCarwardine@OwnYourFuture-net.com>

I'm not far enough along in Rev to know for sure, but can you do some sort
of group behaviour?   I recall in HC you could have a family of buttons that
or'd each other... Jim

on 2/3/04 1:37 AM, Sarah Reichelt wrote:

> Hi All,
> 
> I have a need for a three-stage checkbox, in my case signifying
> "Definite yes", "Definite no" and "Don't know yet". This needs to run
> on Macs only (OS 9 & X). I know that on Macs, you can have a checkbox
> that is either empty, ticked or has a line through it. If I could get
> those three options, I'd be fine but does anyone know how?
> 
> Failing this, I guess I'll have to use normal buttons and switch their
> icons instead, but a series of checkboxes is much easier to read & set.
> 
> TIA,
> Sarah
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution

-- 

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<http://www.OwnYourFuture-net.com>

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1959 Upper Water Street, Suite 407, Halifax, Nova Scotia. B3J 3N2
Info Line: 902-823-2477, Phone: 902-823-2339. Fax: 902-823-2139




From dsc at swcp.com  Tue Feb  3 14:57:16 2004
From: dsc at swcp.com (Dar Scott)
Date: Tue, 3 Feb 2004 12:57:16 -0700
Subject: Encryption of Saved Stack of Standalone (Linux)
In-Reply-To: <720F345C-5682-11D8-A9F8-003065F00EF2@mac.com>
Message-ID: <2A9E2ACE-5683-11D8-8947-000A9567A3E6@swcp.com>


On Tuesday, February 3, 2004, at 12:52 PM, Bojsza wrote:

> It doesn't have to be the same password. I just want to have the 
> stacks that are created by a standalone to be encrypted. So, if I 
> placed a password field with a password in it and had that placed in 
> the stack that is part of the distribution build can it be used to 
> encrypt any stacks created?

I would think so.  However, you might not want to bother with the 
field.  You might want to use a custom property or just "hardwire" it 
into the script.

I haven't tried encrypting a new stack in a standalone, but it seems it 
should work.

Dar Scott


From gbojsza at mac.com  Tue Feb  3 15:02:45 2004
From: gbojsza at mac.com (Bojsza)
Date: Tue, 3 Feb 2004 14:02:45 -0600
Subject: Encryption of Saved Stack of Standalone (Linux)
In-Reply-To: <2A9E2ACE-5683-11D8-8947-000A9567A3E6@swcp.com>
Message-ID: <EE8FDF2F-5683-11D8-A9F8-003065F00EF2@mac.com>

You would have thought that someone would have done this at one time to 
protect their "data" stacks?

 From the Transcript dictionary for encrypt it says that mcEncrypt is an 
internal function...so how can I do it? Is their another function built 
in?

Glen


On Tuesday, February 3, 2004, at 01:57 PM, Dar Scott wrote:

>
> On Tuesday, February 3, 2004, at 12:52 PM, Bojsza wrote:
>
>> It doesn't have to be the same password. I just want to have the 
>> stacks that are created by a standalone to be encrypted. So, if I 
>> placed a password field with a password in it and had that placed in 
>> the stack that is part of the distribution build can it be used to 
>> encrypt any stacks created?
>
> I would think so.  However, you might not want to bother with the 
> field.  You might want to use a custom property or just "hardwire" it 
> into the script.
>
> I haven't tried encrypting a new stack in a standalone, but it seems 
> it should work.
>
> Dar Scott
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution


From zelston at aol.com  Tue Feb  3 15:08:14 2004
From: zelston at aol.com (Zac Elston)
Date: Tue, 3 Feb 2004 15:08:14 -0500
Subject: http password 
Message-ID: <401FFFAE.8070207@aol.com>

i have a url that is 
"http://username:password at hostname/path/file.pl?var1=foo

when using this url in a browser, it works

when using "Get URL myquery" i get empty.

even "get URL urlencode(myquery)" returns empty.

what's the trick to getting this to work?

thanks
-zav



From erikhans08 at yahoo.com  Tue Feb  3 15:09:25 2004
From: erikhans08 at yahoo.com (erik hansen)
Date: Tue, 3 Feb 2004 12:09:25 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Changing the clickLine
In-Reply-To: <20040203084341.13984.qmail@web60505.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <20040203200925.52997.qmail@web61103.mail.yahoo.com>

--- "Gardner, Joseph A" <joe.gardner at nwa.com>
> wrote:
I'd like to change 
"line 1 of field 1" to 
"line 2 of field 1".

put the clickLine into tKlikLine
put 2 into word 2 of tKlikLine

clickChunk & clickCharChunk
are also useful (thanks Ken).

Erik Hansen

=====
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From dsc at swcp.com  Tue Feb  3 15:11:15 2004
From: dsc at swcp.com (Dar Scott)
Date: Tue, 3 Feb 2004 13:11:15 -0700
Subject: Encryption of Saved Stack of Standalone (Linux)
In-Reply-To: <EE8FDF2F-5683-11D8-A9F8-003065F00EF2@mac.com>
Message-ID: <1EE4A3F3-5685-11D8-8947-000A9567A3E6@swcp.com>


On Tuesday, February 3, 2004, at 01:02 PM, Bojsza wrote:

> From the Transcript dictionary for encrypt it says that mcEncrypt is 
> an internal function...so how can I do it? Is their another function 
> built in?

Look at password and passKey in the Transcript dictionary.

When you clone to create a data stack, set the password and the passKey.
When you load a data stack, set the passKey.
I'm not sure whether you need to empty the passKey before saving the 
data stack; I would imagine so.

Guessing...

Dar Scott


From ambassador at fourthworld.com  Tue Feb  3 15:13:24 2004
From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin)
Date: Tue, 03 Feb 2004 12:13:24 -0800
Subject: Encryption of Saved Stack of Standalone (Linux)
In-Reply-To: <EE8FDF2F-5683-11D8-A9F8-003065F00EF2@mac.com>
Message-ID: <BC4540E4.3C8EC%ambassador@fourthworld.com>

Bojsza wrote:

> You would have thought that someone would have done this at one time to
> protect their "data" stacks?
> 
> From the Transcript dictionary for encrypt it says that mcEncrypt is an
> internal function...so how can I do it? Is their another function built
> in?

I don't know of one, but if a lightweight solution will tide you over until
Rev gets industrial-strength encryption, check out the latest Handy Handler
column at revJournal:

<http://www.revjournal.com/comments.php?id=P65_0_1_0>

-- 
 Richard Gaskin 
 Fourth World Media Corporation
 ___________________________________________________________
 Ambassador at FourthWorld.com       http://www.FourthWorld.com


From janschenkel at yahoo.com  Tue Feb  3 15:14:24 2004
From: janschenkel at yahoo.com (Jan Schenkel)
Date: Tue, 3 Feb 2004 12:14:24 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Encryption of Saved Stack of Standalone (Linux)
In-Reply-To: <EE8FDF2F-5683-11D8-A9F8-003065F00EF2@mac.com>
Message-ID: <20040203201424.355.qmail@web60510.mail.yahoo.com>

--- Bojsza <gbojsza at mac.com> wrote:
> You would have thought that someone would have done
> this at one time to 
> protect their "data" stacks?
> 
>  From the Transcript dictionary for encrypt it says
> that mcEncrypt is an 
> internal function...so how can I do it? Is their
> another function built 
> in?
> 
> Glen
> 

Hi Glen,

You could always employ the simple encryption scheme
that Richard Gaskin explains in his latest Handy
Handlers column at revJournal. Link : 
<http://www.revjournal.com/comments.php?id=P65_0_1_0>

You may also find this thread on the MetaCard mailing
list of interest in your search for encryption :
<http://lists.runrev.com/pipermail/metacard/2004-January/006722.html>

Hope this helped,

Jan Schenkel.

=====
"As we grow older, we grow both wiser and more foolish at the same time."  (La Rochefoucauld)

__________________________________
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Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free web site building tool. Try it!
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From dcragg at lacscentre.co.uk  Tue Feb  3 15:18:31 2004
From: dcragg at lacscentre.co.uk (Dave Cragg)
Date: Tue, 3 Feb 2004 20:18:31 +0000
Subject: Encryption of Saved Stack of Standalone (Linux)
In-Reply-To: <2A9E2ACE-5683-11D8-8947-000A9567A3E6@swcp.com>
References: <2A9E2ACE-5683-11D8-8947-000A9567A3E6@swcp.com>
Message-ID: <p0602040bbc45b1722cde@[192.168.123.7]>

At 12:57 pm -0700 3/2/04, Dar Scott wrote:
>On Tuesday, February 3, 2004, at 12:52 PM, Bojsza wrote:
>
>>  It doesn't have to be the same password. I just want to have the
>>stacks that are created by a standalone to be encrypted. So, if I
>>placed a password field with a password in it and had that placed
>>in the stack that is part of the distribution build can it be used
>>to encrypt any stacks created?
>
>I would think so.  However, you might not want to bother with the
>field.  You might want to use a custom property or just "hardwire"
>it into the script.

Hardwiring in the script is probably safest as you can still access 
custom properties and fields in a password-protected stack (although 
you can't read them casually in a text editor).

After cloning the stack and setting its name, something like this:

   if the password of stack "myNewStack" is empty then
     set the password of stack "myNewStack" to "bigsecret"
   end if

Then save the stack.

Cheers
Dave

From dsc at swcp.com  Tue Feb  3 15:20:59 2004
From: dsc at swcp.com (Dar Scott)
Date: Tue, 3 Feb 2004 13:20:59 -0700
Subject: Labels and labeled Fields
Message-ID: <7B0970E7-5686-11D8-8947-000A9567A3E6@swcp.com>

I find that setting up label fields and (more so) data fields with 
associated label fields to be very tedious.  Ideas?  Perhaps I am doing 
all this the hard way.

Dar Scott



From erikhans08 at yahoo.com  Tue Feb  3 15:26:10 2004
From: erikhans08 at yahoo.com (erik hansen)
Date: Tue, 3 Feb 2004 12:26:10 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Message Watcher: customize "Suppress Messages"?
In-Reply-To: <20040203200925.52997.qmail@web61103.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <20040203202610.77258.qmail@web61105.mail.yahoo.com>

hello,

Message Watcher "Suppress Messages"
lets you add Messages to Suppress one at a time.
is there a way to automate this by loading
a list of messages all at once?

the answer is probably:
if you don't know how to get into the code
then don't mess with it.

Erik Hansen

=====
erik at erikhansen.org    http://www.erikhansen.org

__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free web site building tool. Try it!
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From janschenkel at yahoo.com  Tue Feb  3 15:27:37 2004
From: janschenkel at yahoo.com (Jan Schenkel)
Date: Tue, 3 Feb 2004 12:27:37 -0800 (PST)
Subject: http password 
In-Reply-To: <401FFFAE.8070207@aol.com>
Message-ID: <20040203202737.14399.qmail@web60501.mail.yahoo.com>

--- Zac Elston <zelston at aol.com> wrote:
> i have a url that is 
>
"http://username:password at hostname/path/file.pl?var1=foo
> 
> when using this url in a browser, it works
> 
> when using "Get URL myquery" i get empty.
> 
> even "get URL urlencode(myquery)" returns empty.
> 
> what's the trick to getting this to work?
> 
> thanks
> -zav
> 

Hi Zac,

The best way to figure out why http and ftp things
don't give the desired result, is to log their actions
to a field and see what's missing ; see the Transcript
Dictionary entry for the 'libURLSetLogField' command.
Example :
--
  libURLSetLogField the long ID of field "log"
  get URL tURL
  libURLSetLogField "none"
--

It is possible that the server is using some form of
authentication that is stored in the httpHeaders --
checking the log should point that out.

As a side-note : it isn't necessary to URLencode the
entire URL -- just make sure the username and password
are encoded before stringing together the URL.

Hope this helped,

Jan Schenkel.

=====
"As we grow older, we grow both wiser and more foolish at the same time."  (La Rochefoucauld)

__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free web site building tool. Try it!
http://webhosting.yahoo.com/ps/sb/

From themacguy at macosx.com  Tue Feb  3 15:38:51 2004
From: themacguy at macosx.com (Barry Levine)
Date: Tue, 3 Feb 2004 13:38:51 -0700
Subject: Three-stage checkbox
Message-ID: <F9BB599A-5688-11D8-81BB-000A95763ABC@macosx.com>

I think someone else already voiced disagreement to the use of a 
three-stage checkbox to indicate "Yes", "No", and "Don't know". I'll 
toss in my two cents, as well.

For a three-stage checkbox to have a line through it, it indicates that 
it encompasses some portion of both the Yes and No states. The example 
given (by another) was the hierarchical checkboxes (like an installer 
program). In the case of a "Don't know", it's -neither- Yes nor No. 
Radio buttons produce the desired modality according to the Apple 
guidelines (which *sigh* even Apple has partially abandoned).

Regards,
Barry


From alex at mindlube.com  Tue Feb  3 15:43:36 2004
From: alex at mindlube.com (Alex Rice)
Date: Tue, 3 Feb 2004 13:43:36 -0700
Subject: http password 
In-Reply-To: <20040203202737.14399.qmail@web60501.mail.yahoo.com>
References: <20040203202737.14399.qmail@web60501.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <A406EFB2-5689-11D8-A165-000393C4760A@mindlube.com>


On Feb 3, 2004, at 1:27 PM, Jan Schenkel wrote:

> It is possible that the server is using some form of
> authentication that is stored in the httpHeaders --
> checking the log should point that out.

And if it's a "Basic" http authentication then probably all that is 
required is sending these HTTP headers along with the request.

Username: xxxx
Password: yyyy

Web browsers translate the http://username:password at hostname URL into 
the appropriate HTTP headers but maybe libURL doesn't do that.

--
Alex Rice | Mindlube Software | http://mindlube.com


From janschenkel at yahoo.com  Tue Feb  3 15:49:34 2004
From: janschenkel at yahoo.com (Jan Schenkel)
Date: Tue, 3 Feb 2004 12:49:34 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Labels and labeled Fields
In-Reply-To: <7B0970E7-5686-11D8-8947-000A9567A3E6@swcp.com>
Message-ID: <20040203204934.6522.qmail@web60504.mail.yahoo.com>

--- Dar Scott <dsc at swcp.com> wrote:
> I find that setting up label fields and (more so)
> data fields with 
> associated label fields to be very tedious.  Ideas? 
> Perhaps I am doing 
> all this the hard way.
> 
> Dar Scott
> 

Digging in my lousy memory, I found that HyperCard
allowed you to show the name of a popup-menu to the
left of it, and that you had to play around with the
titleWidth property. This actually also works in Rev.

Unfortunately it uses the 'name' property which makes
it hard to use in a multi-lingual environment, but
maybe the concept could be revived and extended to
other objects, such as fields.

Just a thought,

Jan Schenkel.

=====
"As we grow older, we grow both wiser and more foolish at the same time."  (La Rochefoucauld)

__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free web site building tool. Try it!
http://webhosting.yahoo.com/ps/sb/

From dsc at swcp.com  Tue Feb  3 16:02:03 2004
From: dsc at swcp.com (Dar Scott)
Date: Tue, 3 Feb 2004 14:02:03 -0700
Subject: Labels and labeled Fields
In-Reply-To: <20040203204934.6522.qmail@web60504.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <3751CB68-568C-11D8-8947-000A9567A3E6@swcp.com>


On Tuesday, February 3, 2004, at 01:49 PM, Jan Schenkel wrote:

> Unfortunately it uses the 'name' property which makes
> it hard to use in a multi-lingual environment, but
> maybe the concept could be revived and extended to
> other objects, such as fields.

One problem is that there are now two sets of field properties to 
address somehow.

However, 80% of my needs are for personal or throw-away or experimental 
code, and I wouldn't mind some default values for the name display 
"properties".  Even a default relative location would be fine for 
those.  And even just the name would be great, but following the label 
property of the field would be good, too.

How about with what we have?  Groups?  If not, some way to make a label 
follow the name and location of the field?

How about help from the IDE?

Or maybe there is already some shortcut that I'm missing.

Dar Scott


From dsc at swcp.com  Tue Feb  3 16:10:51 2004
From: dsc at swcp.com (Dar Scott)
Date: Tue, 3 Feb 2004 14:10:51 -0700
Subject: Labels and labeled Fields
In-Reply-To: <3751CB68-568C-11D8-8947-000A9567A3E6@swcp.com>
Message-ID: <728F68F6-568D-11D8-8947-000A9567A3E6@swcp.com>


On Tuesday, February 3, 2004, at 02:02 PM, Dar Scott wrote:

> How about help from the IDE?

Maybe a context menu that shows up for fields that creates a label for 
the field.  The contents of the label field would be the name or label 
of the field at that time.  The name would be "Label for x" where x is 
the content.  The relative position and other features would be set in 
preferences.  The size is adjusted.  And so on.  Maybe there can be 
several label styles available.

> Or maybe there is already some shortcut that I'm missing.

This is many steps for me.

Dar


From janschenkel at yahoo.com  Tue Feb  3 16:12:41 2004
From: janschenkel at yahoo.com (Jan Schenkel)
Date: Tue, 3 Feb 2004 13:12:41 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Labels and labeled Fields
In-Reply-To: <3751CB68-568C-11D8-8947-000A9567A3E6@swcp.com>
Message-ID: <20040203211241.77567.qmail@web60503.mail.yahoo.com>

--- Dar Scott <dsc at swcp.com> wrote:
> 
> On Tuesday, February 3, 2004, at 01:49 PM, Jan
> Schenkel wrote:
> 
> > Unfortunately it uses the 'name' property which
> makes
> > it hard to use in a multi-lingual environment, but
> > maybe the concept could be revived and extended to
> > other objects, such as fields.
> 
> One problem is that there are now two sets of field
> properties to 
> address somehow.
> 
> However, 80% of my needs are for personal or
> throw-away or experimental 
> code, and I wouldn't mind some default values for
> the name display 
> "properties".  Even a default relative location
> would be fine for 
> those.  And even just the name would be great, but
> following the label 
> property of the field would be good, too.
> 
> How about with what we have?  Groups?  If not, some
> way to make a label 
> follow the name and location of the field?
> 
> How about help from the IDE?
> 
> Or maybe there is already some shortcut that I'm
> missing.
> 
> Dar Scott
> 

A group would work, of course ; as long as you're one
of those people who likes to work with 'Select grouped
controls' turned off ;-)

Otherwise you could make a nice object out of it to
store in your Object Library ; and accompany it with a
frontScript that handles the 'moveControl' command by
checking if the control you're moving is a field that
happens to have a uLabelLinkedField custom property
and moving it accordingly.

Jan Schenkel.

=====
"As we grow older, we grow both wiser and more foolish at the same time."  (La Rochefoucauld)

__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free web site building tool. Try it!
http://webhosting.yahoo.com/ps/sb/

From steve at messimercomputing.com  Tue Feb  3 16:32:45 2004
From: steve at messimercomputing.com (Stephen Messimer)
Date: Tue, 3 Feb 2004 16:32:45 -0500
Subject: PreceptorTools now freeware
Message-ID: <813018EE-5690-11D8-88C9-000A27D75508@messimercomputing.com>

Hi all,

PreceptorTools version 1.0.5 is now available for download.

Download v 1.0.5 here:  http://www.messimercomputing.com/pTDnLoads.html

I have decided to release this version as Freeware. If you are an 
educator or a trainer or a hobbyist you can now use preceptorTools free 
of charge. Here's the deal.  You can use preceptorTools to make any 
number of learning modules and these can be distributed to anyone as 
long as no money changes hands.  If you are a corporate trainer and you 
want you use this to build learning modules to use in-house that is 
acceptable use as well as long as no money changes hands.  
PreceptorTools cannot be used to build products that you sell to 
others.  The above applies only to preceptorTools.  Your rights of 
distribution may differ depending on the class of Revolution? license 
you have purchased. If you have questions about that contact the folks 
at Runtime Revolution.

If you are part of a teaching institution all you need to do is 
register a single copy then you can place as many copies on as many 
machines as you desire.  Before you get all excited remember that you 
have to have a copy of Revolution running on each machine to use this 
product.

To register your copy send an email tome at this address:  
ptlicense at messimercomputing.com

I will send you your registration strings as soon as I can.

I will be unable to provide email or phone support but there is 
extensive help available at the messimer computing website.

Windows users:  I have not been able to test this with Windows.  I 
think that I have fixed most of the windows related problems but 
without a PC I don't think this is going to get done.  Sorry.

PreceptorTools has devolved from a potential commercial venture to a 
hobby so while I will continue to work on it there is no fixed schedule 
for upgrades or bug fixes.  That said I do have a development plan in 
mind.  How fast that is implemented depends on the time I have 
available.

The 1.0.5 download has a 30 day limit as before.  All you have to do to 
remove this is to register by sending me your name and organization 
information.  This is required to build your registration string.  I 
will not use that information in any other way.

What's new in 1.0.5.

the newest thing is a revamp of the main preceptorTools UI.  I had a 
lot of fun doing that.  If folks like that I have  a makeover ready for 
the Object toolkits stack that is very similar in concept. :-)

Finally, if you do use PreceptorTools and you have comments I would 
love to hear from you.

Regards to all.

Steve

Stephen R. Messimer, PA
208 1st Ave. South	
Escanaba, MI 49829
http://www.messimercomputing.com
--
Build Computer-Based Training modules FAST with preceptorTools? -- 
version 1.0.5 available Now!
--
Macintosh G-4 OSX 10.2.6, OS 9.2.2, 512MB RAM, Rev 2.1.2

From mark at runrev.com  Tue Feb  3 17:02:39 2004
From: mark at runrev.com (Mark Chia)
Date: 03 Feb 2004 22:02:39 +0000
Subject: Bug Database
Message-ID: <1075845759.3033.12.camel@voyager>

Hello Revolutionaries!

Just a quick note to inform everyone that Bugzilla will be
down for maintenance and restructuring on Wednesday. A number of
people have provided feedback to Bugzilla's current implementation 
of bug statuses and resolutions. This along with the desire to know the 
version number a particular bug was fixed has led us to take the
following actions:

1) The Status of PENDING is going to be added in order to identify the
difference between bugs that have been submitted and not seen yet
(UNCONFIRMED), and those that have been viewed and responded to, but are
not in the queue to be fixed because of a lack of information, clarity,
or a reproducible recipe (PENDING). This will allow us to quickly
respond to new bugs and to confirm that bugs have enough information to
be worked on.

2) The Resolutions of REMIND and LATER will be removed, and the
Resolutions of INVALID, WONTFIX and WORKSFORME will be changed to more
appropriately named versions. This will leave the following Resolutions
and what they mean:

             ---:  The bug has not been fixed.
           FIXED:  The bug has been fixed.
       NOT_A_BUG:  The bug has not been fixed because it really isn't 
                     a bug (the reporter misunderstood or assumed 
                     something incorrectly) (Formerly INVALID)
        CANT_FIX:  The bug is one which cannot be fixed because it is 
                     out of our control to fix (like it's an OS 
                     defect, etc.) (Formerly WONTFIX)
       DUPLICATE:  The bug is a duplicate to one that already exists, 
                     and therefore will not be fixed (the "original" 
                     one will be, though)
  CANT_REPRODUCE:  The bug is one that cannot be reproduced, and 
                     requires more info or a different recipe in 
                     order to attack it again. (Formerly WORKSFORME)

3) The Target Milestone field will be used to identify in which version
of Rev a particular bug was fixed. This will be set by the person who
fixes the bug and has had it verified and eventually closed.

As we will need to make some major database changes, Bugzilla will 
be taken off-line for a few days. We would request that you hold onto
any bugs you need to file until the new system is back online. When
Bugzilla is back online, we will send out another announcement that
clarifies the new system and how to use it to its best effectiveness. At
that time we will also go over how bugs go through the system so
everyone's on the same page.

Bugzilla will go offline on Wednesday, February 4 and 1:00am PST
(9:00am Edinburgh time), and we expect that it will be down all day
Wednesday and all day Thursday, with testing going into Friday. We will
notify everyone as soon as it is back up and ready to be used.

Thanks.

Mark
--
Mark Chia ~ http://www.runrev.com/
Runtime Revolution - User-Centric Development Tools


From sarahr at genesearch.com.au  Tue Feb  3 17:02:32 2004
From: sarahr at genesearch.com.au (Sarah Reichelt)
Date: Wed, 4 Feb 2004 08:02:32 +1000
Subject: Three stage checkbox?
In-Reply-To: <352403E8-5644-11D8-81A9-003065AD94A4@mac.com>
References: <352403E8-5644-11D8-81A9-003065AD94A4@mac.com>
Message-ID: <AA9C67D8-5694-11D8-A2F8-0003937A97B8@genesearch.com.au>

On 3 Feb 2004, at 10:29 pm, Bj?rnke von Gierke wrote:

> Any form of one object having three stages is confusing and extremely 
> nonstandard. Use 3 radiobuttons instead. Short description about how 
> to do that:
> 1. make 3 radiobuttons, name them "Yes", "No" and "Don't know"
> 2. group them
> 3. use the "hilitedButtonName" of the group like this:
> put the hilitedButtonName into AnswerToThreefoldQuestion
>
> As for the line-trough checkboxes:
> They should only be used in cases where you have a hierarchy of 
> checkboxes and indicate that some, but not all of the checkboxes in 
> the branch of the lined checkbox have been checked.
> See also the screensaver activation preference in Mac OS X. They need 
> to include a lengthy explanation about why there are three states of 
> these checkboxes.
>
While normally I would agree with this and am familiar with the 
techniques for using radio buttons, I have a database with numerous 
fields and then a separate list of 20 items with the 3 options as 
discussed. If I use 3 radio buttons for each item, that gives me a 
display of 60 buttons! In this case, I think the users would be much 
more comfortable with a single button for each item, which can display 
the 3 different states.

Cheers,
Sarah


From alex at mindlube.com  Tue Feb  3 17:13:17 2004
From: alex at mindlube.com (Alex Rice)
Date: Tue, 3 Feb 2004 15:13:17 -0700
Subject: Three stage checkbox?
In-Reply-To: <0829AC52-560B-11D8-A2F8-0003937A97B8@genesearch.com.au>
References: <0829AC52-560B-11D8-A2F8-0003937A97B8@genesearch.com.au>
Message-ID: <2B1F579E-5696-11D8-A165-000393C4760A@mindlube.com>


On Feb 2, 2004, at 10:37 PM, Sarah Reichelt wrote:

> Failing this, I guess I'll have to use normal buttons and switch their 
> icons instead, but a series of checkboxes is much easier to read & 
> set.

Just another idea: use a scrollbar-slider and make it snap to 
left-right-middle positions.

--
Alex Rice | Mindlube Software | http://mindlube.com


From ambassador at fourthworld.com  Tue Feb  3 17:16:36 2004
From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin)
Date: Tue, 03 Feb 2004 14:16:36 -0800
Subject: Labels and labeled Fields
In-Reply-To: <7B0970E7-5686-11D8-8947-000A9567A3E6@swcp.com>
Message-ID: <BC455DC4.3C913%ambassador@fourthworld.com>

Dar Scott wrote:

> I find that setting up label fields and (more so) data fields with
> associated label fields to be very tedious.  Ideas?  Perhaps I am doing
> all this the hard way.

Look in RevNet for "4W FormMaker" -- instant fields with matching labels.

-- 
 Richard Gaskin 
 Fourth World Media Corporation
 ___________________________________________________________
 Ambassador at FourthWorld.com       http://www.FourthWorld.com


From dsc at swcp.com  Tue Feb  3 17:55:10 2004
From: dsc at swcp.com (Dar Scott)
Date: Tue, 3 Feb 2004 15:55:10 -0700
Subject: Labels and labeled Fields
In-Reply-To: <BC455DC4.3C913%ambassador@fourthworld.com>
Message-ID: <05382388-569C-11D8-8947-000A9567A3E6@swcp.com>


On Tuesday, February 3, 2004, at 03:16 PM, Richard Gaskin wrote:

> Look in RevNet for "4W FormMaker" -- instant fields with matching 
> labels.

I am not familiar with RevNet.  I found "4W FormMaker".  Do I click 
something and then a plugin will be installed?  The text field has the 
name and then a brief description, but there is nothing to indicate 
what happens when I click the name.

Dar Scott


From dcragg at lacscentre.co.uk  Tue Feb  3 17:56:14 2004
From: dcragg at lacscentre.co.uk (Dave Cragg)
Date: Tue, 3 Feb 2004 22:56:14 +0000
Subject: http password
In-Reply-To: <401FFFAE.8070207@aol.com>
References: <401FFFAE.8070207@aol.com>
Message-ID: <p06020401bc45d27c2529@[192.168.123.7]>

At 3:08 pm -0500 3/2/04, Zac Elston wrote:
>i have a url that is
>"http://username:password at hostname/path/file.pl?var1=foo
>
>when using this url in a browser, it works
>
>when using "Get URL myquery" i get empty.
>
>even "get URL urlencode(myquery)" returns empty.
>
>what's the trick to getting this to work?

First check "the result" to see if any error has been reported. (You 
should always do this after any url call.)

If the result contains a 401 code, this means the username and 
password weren't authenticated. If you are sure the name and password 
are correct, you can try urlEncoding them. But this is only necessary 
if they contain any "funny characters", i.e non-alphanumeric 
characters. As Jan said,  urlEncode the username and password first, 
and then add them to the url string.

If the result contains something like "invalid url" then libUrl may 
have been unable to parse the url. Some versions of libUrl have 
problems in parsing urls that contain other urls in the query string 
(the bit after the "?") You could try updating to the latest version 
of libUrl (1.0.13). You can get it here:

<http://www.runrev.com/revolution/developers/interimreleases/liburl/releases.shtml>

At 1:43 pm -0700 3/2/04, Alex Rice wrote:
>Web browsers translate the http://username:password at hostname URL
>into the appropriate HTTP headers but maybe libURL doesn't do that.

You must have more faith, Alex. <just kidding>

<http://www.runrev.com/revolution/developers/interimreleases/liburl/liburldoc.shtml#authorization>

Cheers
Dave

From dsc at swcp.com  Tue Feb  3 18:00:05 2004
From: dsc at swcp.com (Dar Scott)
Date: Tue, 3 Feb 2004 16:00:05 -0700
Subject: Labels and labeled Fields
In-Reply-To: <20040203211241.77567.qmail@web60503.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <B4A2D33B-569C-11D8-8947-000A9567A3E6@swcp.com>


On Tuesday, February 3, 2004, at 02:12 PM, Jan Schenkel wrote:

> A group would work, of course ; as long as you're one
> of those people who likes to work with 'Select grouped
> controls' turned off ;-)

Of course.  Is this one of those religious things like Mac vs. Windows?

> Otherwise you could make a nice object out of it to
> store in your Object Library ; and accompany it with a
> frontScript that handles the 'moveControl' command by
> checking if the control you're moving is a field that
> happens to have a uLabelLinkedField custom property
> and moving it accordingly.

I thought about an object in the Object Library that was spiked with a 
script that created a label and forced it to move on move and resize.  
It also should follow the name of the field, but I don't know how it 
can easily handle changes in those.

Wishlist:  setProp for built-in properties or changeProp or something.  
Or some way to find out when some arbitrary property changes.

Dar Scott




From chipp at chipp.com  Tue Feb  3 18:00:23 2004
From: chipp at chipp.com (Chipp Walters)
Date: Tue, 3 Feb 2004 17:00:23 -0600
Subject: Three stage checkbox?
In-Reply-To: <AA9C67D8-5694-11D8-A2F8-0003937A97B8@genesearch.com.au>
Message-ID: <ACEELABEAIANJNCEJFMAKEBAIMAA.chipp@chipp.com>

I like the idea of a checkbox with a question mark inside it.
An interesting (and clear to me) interface element.

best,

Chipp


From plsntbreez at mac.com  Tue Feb  3 18:08:36 2004
From: plsntbreez at mac.com (Brian Maher)
Date: Tue, 3 Feb 2004 18:08:36 -0500
Subject: Valentina?
Message-ID: <E56D7EA8-569D-11D8-B27C-000A95B02D84@mac.com>

Hi Folks,

If I wanted to use Valentina in a Revolution app on OS X what product 
would
I need to purchase?  They have a ton of them listed.

Thanks, Brian


From zelston at aol.com  Tue Feb  3 18:09:46 2004
From: zelston at aol.com (Zac Elston)
Date: Tue, 3 Feb 2004 18:09:46 -0500
Subject: http password
In-Reply-To: <20040203213327.78962930152@mail.runrev.com>
References: <20040203213327.78962930152@mail.runrev.com>
Message-ID: <40202A3A.9030902@aol.com>

looks like my problem is with the standalone unix version not the gui 
version.

i was trying to write a script to do some cgi queries from different 
info systems we have that don't talk to each other so I was basically 
hitting URL 1 , scrapping the info , then hitting url 2 with info from 
the scrape then hitting url 3 for the final parse.

checking the urlstatus always returned empty and with liburlerrordata 
the script refused to run

I was able to verify my access to the cgi using "wget url" on the unix 
cli, so I know the url is formatted correctly.


after 3 hours debuggin this with various get/load/while urlstatus 
settings i tried a simple get in the windows version and it loaded 
perfectly the first time.  so now it's a windows tool, instead of a unix 
shell script which outta make a lot of people here not want to use it :)

anyone confirm different liburl versions in the standalones?  I 
downloaded the newest standalone a few days ago.

thanks
-zac

use-revolution-request at lists.runrev.com wrote on 2/3/2004, 4:33 PM:

 > > when using this url in a browser, it works
 > >
 > > when using "Get URL myquery" i get empty.
 > >
 > > even "get URL urlencode(myquery)" returns empty.
 > >
 > > what's the trick to getting this to work?
 > >
 > > thanks
 > > -zav
 > >


From dsc at swcp.com  Tue Feb  3 18:11:39 2004
From: dsc at swcp.com (Dar Scott)
Date: Tue, 3 Feb 2004 16:11:39 -0700
Subject: Three stage checkbox?
In-Reply-To: <ACEELABEAIANJNCEJFMAKEBAIMAA.chipp@chipp.com>
Message-ID: <522E5E64-569E-11D8-8947-000A9567A3E6@swcp.com>


On Tuesday, February 3, 2004, at 04:00 PM, Chipp Walters wrote:

> I like the idea of a checkbox with a question mark inside it.
> An interesting (and clear to me) interface element.

I think I would understand, too.

However, I might get confused if it looks like the question mark is 
covering the checkbox.  It might look like it is blocking the box for 
some unknown reason.  I think if the dot was above the bottom of the 
box, then it might look like it is coming out of the box.  Or a big box 
could be used.

Dar Scott


From ambassador at fourthworld.com  Tue Feb  3 18:13:34 2004
From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin)
Date: Tue, 03 Feb 2004 15:13:34 -0800
Subject: Labels and labeled Fields
In-Reply-To: <05382388-569C-11D8-8947-000A9567A3E6@swcp.com>
Message-ID: <BC456B1E.3C93A%ambassador@fourthworld.com>

Dar Scott wrote:

> 
> On Tuesday, February 3, 2004, at 03:16 PM, Richard Gaskin wrote:
> 
>> Look in RevNet for "4W FormMaker" -- instant fields with matching
>> labels.
> 
> I am not familiar with RevNet.  I found "4W FormMaker".  Do I click
> something and then a plugin will be installed?  The text field has the
> name and then a brief description, but there is nothing to indicate
> what happens when I click the name.

What happens when you clck it?

It should download and run.

A revvision coming soon will alsoallow automatic saving to the Plugins
folder.

-- 
 Richard Gaskin 
 Fourth World Media Corporation
 ___________________________________________________________
 Ambassador at FourthWorld.com       http://www.FourthWorld.com


From briany at qldlearning.com  Tue Feb  3 18:15:27 2004
From: briany at qldlearning.com (Brian Yennie)
Date: Tue, 3 Feb 2004 18:15:27 -0500
Subject: Valentina?
In-Reply-To: <E56D7EA8-569D-11D8-B27C-000A95B02D84@mac.com>
Message-ID: <DA8B29AF-569E-11D8-AE3B-000393AA08D2@qldlearning.com>

You'll want to buy a license for Valentina XCMD- VXCMD.

You can buy a Mac or Windows-only license from Paradigma for $200, or 
$300 for both.
The license key you receive will be useable with both the downloads 
from Paradigma and with revdb. Releases are pretty frequent, so it is 
useful to download the latest in between Rev releases.

I would highly recommend joining the Valentina lists also, if you 
haven't already. It's one of the few lists as useful as this one!

- Brian

> Hi Folks,
>
> If I wanted to use Valentina in a Revolution app on OS X what product 
> would
> I need to purchase?  They have a ton of them listed.
>
> Thanks, Brian
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>
>


From joe.gardner at nwa.com  Tue Feb  3 18:27:36 2004
From: joe.gardner at nwa.com (Gardner, Joseph A)
Date: Wed, 4 Feb 2004 08:27:36 +0900
Subject: Changing the clickLine
Message-ID: <CF18E340C73DB74C930BB2473A7F5362239035@AMTYOK01.pad.nwa.com>

Pretty close, Jan. :) What I'm trying to do is "navigate" a list field using the up/down arrow keys. This field shows the contents of a folder of text files and when a line is clicked the contents of the clickLine file are displayed. To speed up the process, I want to be able to display each file simply by pressing the up and down arrow keys rather than messing with the mouse. And rather than highlighting the line in the field, I've got it so that the text color is changed from red to black when a line is clicked (and the file displayed). That way the user knows which files have been read. Although this may still count as a highlighted line...

Anyway, I'll take a look at the "hilitedLines" property and see if that can indeed be used in conjunction with the clickLine to provide easier navigation.

Thanks as always! Did anyone mention recently that you're a fount of knowledge?

joe.


Jan said:

Let me first make an educated guess : are you trying
to change which line is hilited in a list field ?
If so, have a look at the hilitedLines property :
--
  set the hilitedLines of field "Foobar" to "3"
--
If not, could you explain your goal ?

Hope this helped,

Jan Schenkel.



From plsntbreez at mac.com  Tue Feb  3 19:19:16 2004
From: plsntbreez at mac.com (Brian Maher)
Date: Tue, 3 Feb 2004 19:19:16 -0500
Subject: Valentina?
In-Reply-To: <DA8B29AF-569E-11D8-AE3B-000393AA08D2@qldlearning.com>
References: <DA8B29AF-569E-11D8-AE3B-000393AA08D2@qldlearning.com>
Message-ID: <C46F8AB2-56A7-11D8-B27C-000A95B02D84@mac.com>

Hi Brian,

Thanks for the info.  I purchased my copy and already got my serial 
number so I am good to go.

Cheers, Brian


From ambassador at fourthworld.com  Tue Feb  3 19:18:27 2004
From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin)
Date: Tue, 03 Feb 2004 16:18:27 -0800
Subject: Changing the clickLine
In-Reply-To: <CF18E340C73DB74C930BB2473A7F5362239035@AMTYOK01.pad.nwa.com>
Message-ID: <BC457A53.3C94D%ambassador@fourthworld.com>

Gardner, Joseph A wrote:

> What I'm trying to do is "navigate" a list field using the up/down arrow keys.

If you turn on the traversalOn property for the field that behavior happens
automatically.

-- 
 Richard Gaskin 
 Fourth World Media Corporation
 ___________________________________________________________
 Ambassador at FourthWorld.com       http://www.FourthWorld.com


From 3mcgrath at adelphia.net  Tue Feb  3 20:57:55 2004
From: 3mcgrath at adelphia.net (Thomas McGrath III)
Date: Tue, 3 Feb 2004 20:57:55 -0500
Subject: Has anyone ever used the iconifyStack and unIconifyStack
In-Reply-To: <5C61E6E6-5657-11D8-9D74-000A95DA60FA@adelphia.net>
References: <20040203104649.48274.qmail@web60505.mail.yahoo.com>
	<5C61E6E6-5657-11D8-9D74-000A95DA60FA@adelphia.net>
Message-ID: <8C751A6A-56B5-11D8-8CCB-000A95DA60FA@adelphia.net>

Well, I tried this and a few variations and they work great for 
minimizing all open stacks when one is minimized.
Also, by modifying the script for uniconifystack then all stacks will 
open when just one is un-minimized.

My problem now is that I can not get the substacks to be on top 
regardless of which is selected for un-minimization.
I need my main stack to be behind all stacks when they are un-minimized 
even if the user selects the main stack to un-minimize.

So when minimized there are usually just two stacks in the dock and one 
is named "slides" which is a substack the other is the main stack 
called "Unity CD". Naturally, even though we left from the slides 
substack when we minimized the user tends to select the Unity CD Main 
stack to un-minimze from. I need the substack to be on top and not the 
Unity CD main stack.

   put lineOffset("UnityCD", tvar) into myUnityLine --tvar is the list 
of open stacks
   delete line myUnityLine of tvar
   put line 1 of tvar into mvar -- this should be any substack that is 
open(I don't even care which if more than one, as long as it is a 
substack and not the UnityCD main stack)
   go stack mvar

This is in my uniconify stack in my mainstack (which I know is being 
called because I recenter the stacks and that is happening)

help is greatly appreciated

Tom

On Feb 3, 2004, at 5:46 AM, Jan Schenkel wrote:

>
> local sBusyIconifying
> on iconifyStack
>   -- exit if we're already iconifying
>   if sBusyIconifying is true
>   then exit iconifyStack
>   else put true into sBusyIconifying
>   -- now that we've set the flag
>   -- proceed by iconifying the other stacks
>   put the openstacks into tvar
>   put the short name of this stack into myname
>   repeat for each line i in tvar
>     if i <> myname then
>       set the iconic of stack i to true
>     end if
>   end repeat
>   -- clear the flag again for next time
>   put false into sBusyIconfying
> end iconifystack
>
>

Macintosh PowerBook G-4 OSX 10.3.1, OS 9.2.2, 1.25 GHz, 512MB RAM, Rev 
2.1.2


Advanced Media Group
Thomas J McGrath III	? 2003 ?	3mcgrath at adelphia.net
220 Drake Road, Bethel Park, PA 15102




From lists at mangomultimedia.com  Tue Feb  3 21:11:15 2004
From: lists at mangomultimedia.com (Trevor DeVore)
Date: Tue, 3 Feb 2004 19:11:15 -0700
Subject: Valentina?
In-Reply-To: <E56D7EA8-569D-11D8-B27C-000A95B02D84@mac.com>
References: <E56D7EA8-569D-11D8-B27C-000A95B02D84@mac.com>
Message-ID: <6998F7B6-56B7-11D8-A478-000A956C462A@mangomultimedia.com>

On Feb 3, 2004, at 4:08 PM, Brian Maher wrote:

> Hi Folks,
>
> If I wanted to use Valentina in a Revolution app on OS X what product 
> would
> I need to purchase?  They have a ton of them listed.

Get the Valentina XCMD for use with Valentina.  You will need to buy 
the Windows and Mac license for cross-platform development work.  I 
also purchased the Valentina application to create the databases with.

Be aware that right now there is a bug in the revdb libraries when 
working with TEXT fields.  You cannot edit these fields of type TEXT 
without introducing garbage characters (this is under OS X).  On OS X 
10.3 you will also get extra data returned when querying a field of 
type TEXT.  You should not encounter this problem if you use the 
Valentina external calls directly rather than the revdb interface.  
This bug was reported last July and still isn't fixed so it doesn't 
seem to be much of a priority.  It may be best to just use the 
Valentina external calls directly.


-- 
Trevor DeVore
Blue Mango Multimedia
trevor at mangomultimedia.com


From 3mcgrath at adelphia.net  Tue Feb  3 21:44:02 2004
From: 3mcgrath at adelphia.net (Thomas McGrath III)
Date: Tue, 3 Feb 2004 21:44:02 -0500
Subject: send to back, bring to front
Message-ID: <FDC1AC64-56BB-11D8-8CCB-000A95DA60FA@adelphia.net>

Hello to everyone,

I want to manipulate open stacks and substacks in a standalone.

I want to send to back a window and/or bring to front a stack window.

I need to change the order once a stack is un-minimized. I heard on the 
list that scripts do not send the uniconify message so how else can I 
know when the stacks are un-minimized and then rearrange which are on 
top?

Any ideas?

Tom

Macintosh PowerBook G-4 OSX 10.3.1, OS 9.2.2, 1.25 GHz, 512MB RAM, Rev 
2.1.2


Advanced Media Group
Thomas J McGrath III	? 2003 ?	3mcgrath at adelphia.net
220 Drake Road, Bethel Park, PA 15102



From jacque at hyperactivesw.com  Tue Feb  3 21:53:31 2004
From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay)
Date: Tue, 03 Feb 2004 20:53:31 -0600
Subject: send to back, bring to front
In-Reply-To: <FDC1AC64-56BB-11D8-8CCB-000A95DA60FA@adelphia.net>
References: <FDC1AC64-56BB-11D8-8CCB-000A95DA60FA@adelphia.net>
Message-ID: <40205EAB.1080504@hyperactivesw.com>

On 2/3/04 8:44 PM, Thomas McGrath III wrote:
> 
> I want to send to back a window and/or bring to front a stack window.

Use the "toplevel" command. It brings the stack to the, well, top level. 
You can show your substacks this way:

  toplevel "mySubStackName"

> 
> I need to change the order once a stack is un-minimized. I heard on the 
> list that scripts do not send the uniconify message so how else can I 
> know when the stacks are un-minimized and then rearrange which are on top?

The "uniconifyStack" message is sent. (When a user collapses a stack, 
the "iconifyStack" message is sent.) Write a handler that catches that 
message:

on uniconifyStack
   -- check whatever you need to check here
   toplevel "mySubstackName"
end uniconifyStack


-- 
Jacqueline Landman Gay         |     jacque at hyperactivesw.com
HyperActive Software           |     http://www.hyperactivesw.com


From doug at webcrossing.com  Tue Feb  3 22:18:42 2004
From: doug at webcrossing.com (Doug Lerner)
Date: Wed, 04 Feb 2004 12:18:42 +0900
Subject: slow revVideoFrameImage
Message-ID: <BC4693A2.254D2%doug@webcrossing.com>

I am calling revVideoFrameImage periodically and sending the grabbed frame
over a socket. The problem is that the revVideoFrameImage command itself
takes a noticeable amount of time: 1/4 - 1/2 second on my machine, 1 second
or more on slower machines.

In this app, at the same time people are doing other things, like text
input, etc. But during revVideoFrameImage everything else stops.

Is there a way of not having revVideoFrameImage itself hog the whole cpu
when it does its frame grab?

Thanks,

doug


From 3mcgrath at adelphia.net  Tue Feb  3 22:28:51 2004
From: 3mcgrath at adelphia.net (Thomas McGrath III)
Date: Tue, 3 Feb 2004 22:28:51 -0500
Subject: send to back, bring to front
In-Reply-To: <40205EAB.1080504@hyperactivesw.com>
References: <FDC1AC64-56BB-11D8-8CCB-000A95DA60FA@adelphia.net>
	<40205EAB.1080504@hyperactivesw.com>
Message-ID: <4070B71F-56C2-11D8-8CCB-000A95DA60FA@adelphia.net>

Jacqueline,

I tried the trap in uniconifystack and it did not work. I finally just 
added a (send "dotoplevel" to stack "mainstack" in 30 milliseconds) in 
the uniconifystack message handler. Then in the dotoplevel I do the 
toplevel and it works.
It seems the send "" in 30 was needed to set the toplevel.

My only problem is that I tried a repeat on open stacks in the 
dotoplevel for multiple open substacks and that didn't work.

SO I just went back to the one that worked on 'one' substack and left 
it at that. It is close to what I wanted.

Thank you for the help.

Tom

On Feb 3, 2004, at 9:53 PM, J. Landman Gay wrote:

> On 2/3/04 8:44 PM, Thomas McGrath III wrote:
>> I want to send to back a window and/or bring to front a stack window.
>
> Use the "toplevel" command. It brings the stack to the, well, top 
> level. You can show your substacks this way:
>
>  toplevel "mySubStackName"
>
>> I need to change the order once a stack is un-minimized. I heard on 
>> the list that scripts do not send the uniconify message so how else 
>> can I know when the stacks are un-minimized and then rearrange which 
>> are on top?
>
> The "uniconifyStack" message is sent. (When a user collapses a stack, 
> the "iconifyStack" message is sent.) Write a handler that catches that 
> message:
>
> on uniconifyStack
>   -- check whatever you need to check here
>   toplevel "mySubstackName"
> end uniconifyStack
>
>
> -- 
> Jacqueline Landman Gay         |     jacque at hyperactivesw.com
> HyperActive Software           |     http://www.hyperactivesw.com


From sarahr at genesearch.com.au  Tue Feb  3 22:31:49 2004
From: sarahr at genesearch.com.au (Sarah Reichelt)
Date: Wed, 4 Feb 2004 13:31:49 +1000
Subject: Three stage checkbox?
In-Reply-To: <ACEELABEAIANJNCEJFMAKEBAIMAA.chipp@chipp.com>
References: <ACEELABEAIANJNCEJFMAKEBAIMAA.chipp@chipp.com>
Message-ID: <AAC14A0E-56C2-11D8-A2F8-0003937A97B8@genesearch.com.au>

Thanks Chipp, that is a great idea and will indicate very clearly 
exactly what I am trying to show. Now I just have to draw the icons :-(

Sarah

On 4 Feb 2004, at 9:03 am, Chipp Walters wrote:

> I like the idea of a checkbox with a question mark inside it.
> An interesting (and clear to me) interface element.
>
> best,
>
> Chipp


From 3mcgrath at adelphia.net  Tue Feb  3 22:47:53 2004
From: 3mcgrath at adelphia.net (Thomas McGrath III)
Date: Tue, 3 Feb 2004 22:47:53 -0500
Subject: slow revVideoFrameImage
In-Reply-To: <BC4693A2.254D2%doug@webcrossing.com>
References: <BC4693A2.254D2%doug@webcrossing.com>
Message-ID: <E901CB14-56C4-11D8-8CCB-000A95DA60FA@adelphia.net>

Are you sure it is the reVideoFrameImage that is the hog?
Because if it is the send then you might need a "with messages"
or if it is a socket issue then you might need a "with messages"

I actually can't remember which needs it.

HTH

Tom

On Feb 3, 2004, at 10:18 PM, Doug Lerner wrote:

> I am calling revVideoFrameImage periodically and sending the grabbed 
> frame
> over a socket. The problem is that the revVideoFrameImage command 
> itself
> takes a noticeable amount of time: 1/4 - 1/2 second on my machine, 1 
> second
> or more on slower machines.
>
> In this app, at the same time people are doing other things, like text
> input, etc. But during revVideoFrameImage everything else stops.
>
> Is there a way of not having revVideoFrameImage itself hog the whole 
> cpu
> when it does its frame grab?
>
> Thanks,
>
> doug
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>
>

Thomas J. McGrath III
SCS
1000 Killarney Dr.
Pittsburgh, PA 15234
412-885-8541


From joe.gardner at nwa.com  Tue Feb  3 22:51:02 2004
From: joe.gardner at nwa.com (Gardner, Joseph A)
Date: Wed, 4 Feb 2004 12:51:02 +0900
Subject: Changing the clickLine
Message-ID: <CF18E340C73DB74C930BB2473A7F5362239039@AMTYOK01.pad.nwa.com>

Yes, that's true, Richard, but it's quite different from the action of clicking a line in the field and performing an action on a file with the name of the text that you clicked on (the "value" of the clickLine). The field I have created has traversalOn set to "true" and lockText also set to "true". What I really need is to get the up/down arrow keys to change the clickLine and then simulate a mouse click at the clickLine location.

Man, this was so easy in Hypercard! :)

joe.


Richard said:

> What I'm trying to do is "navigate" a list field using the up/down arrow keys.

If you turn on the traversalOn property for the field that behavior happens automatically.



From doug at webcrossing.com  Tue Feb  3 22:51:50 2004
From: doug at webcrossing.com (Doug Lerner)
Date: Wed, 04 Feb 2004 12:51:50 +0900
Subject: slow revVideoFrameImage
In-Reply-To: <E901CB14-56C4-11D8-8CCB-000A95DA60FA@adelphia.net>
Message-ID: <BC469B66.254E4%doug@webcrossing.com>

On 2/4/04 12:47 PM, "Thomas McGrath III" <3mcgrath at adelphia.net> wrote:

> Are you sure it is the reVideoFrameImage that is the hog?

Yes.

> Because if it is the send then you might need a "with messages"
> or if it is a socket issue then you might need a "with messages"

I am already doing the socket stuff with "with messages" and can send and
receive a 1MB file with no slowdown in the app at all, even if I display an
updating progress bar. The "with messages" thing is great.

So it seems the revVideoFrameImage command itself is causing the app to
pause while it finishes the video grab.

doug


> 
> I actually can't remember which needs it.
> 
> HTH
> 
> Tom
> 
> On Feb 3, 2004, at 10:18 PM, Doug Lerner wrote:
> 
>> I am calling revVideoFrameImage periodically and sending the grabbed
>> frame
>> over a socket. The problem is that the revVideoFrameImage command
>> itself
>> takes a noticeable amount of time: 1/4 - 1/2 second on my machine, 1
>> second
>> or more on slower machines.
>> 
>> In this app, at the same time people are doing other things, like text
>> input, etc. But during revVideoFrameImage everything else stops.
>> 
>> Is there a way of not having revVideoFrameImage itself hog the whole
>> cpu
>> when it does its frame grab?
>> 
>> Thanks,
>> 
>> doug
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> use-revolution mailing list
>> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>> 
>> 
> 
> Thomas J. McGrath III
> SCS
> 1000 Killarney Dr.
> Pittsburgh, PA 15234
> 412-885-8541
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution


From ambassador at fourthworld.com  Tue Feb  3 23:19:16 2004
From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin)
Date: Tue, 03 Feb 2004 20:19:16 -0800
Subject: Changing the clickLine
In-Reply-To: <CF18E340C73DB74C930BB2473A7F5362239039@AMTYOK01.pad.nwa.com>
Message-ID: <BC45B2C3.3C982%ambassador@fourthworld.com>

Gardner, Joseph A wrote:

> Richard said:
> 
>> What I'm trying to do is "navigate" a list field using the up/down arrow
>> keys.
> 
> If you turn on the traversalOn property for the field that behavior happens
> automatically.
>
> Yes, that's true, Richard, but it's quite different from the action of
> clicking a line in the field and performing an action on a file with the name
> of the text that you clicked on (the "value" of the clickLine). The field I
> have created has traversalOn set to "true" and lockText also set to "true".
> What I really need is to get the up/down arrow keys to change the clickLine
> and then simulate a mouse click at the clickLine location.
> 
> Man, this was so easy in Hypercard! :)

Why would the same methods you enjoyed in HyperCard not work in Rev?  You
can work just as hard if you need to. :)

As with HC, in Rev you can trap the arrowkey message and manually set the
hilitedLines, and also trap mouseDown, and then do something with the
selectedText.

Rev just provides a simpler alternative as an "also":  turn on the
traversalOn property, then respond to the selectionChanged message; the
arrowKey response is then automatic, and you get the same selectionChanged
message in response to clicks as well so the scripting should be just a tad
simpler than could be done in HC, where you'd have to handle both the
arrowKey and mouseDown messages separately.


People sometimes joke that Scott Raney (the inventor of the Rev engine)
holds a doctorate in cognitive psychology yet made a very ugly IDE (see the
old MetaCard IDE to see why that's funny).  But truth be told he put his
degree to good use, only his focus was on the engine and it's language
design.

A lot of things can be done differently in Rev than one might do the same
thing in HC or SC, but more often than not the Rev engine offers an
alternative which may take some "unlearning" to get used to but offers
bigger bang for the buck.  My favorite example is the "repeat for each"
contruct, but custom property sets are a close second for me.   The
selectionChanged and selectedObjectChanged messages are way up on that list
too.

-- 
 Richard Gaskin 
 Fourth World Media Corporation
 ___________________________________________________________
 Ambassador at FourthWorld.com       http://www.FourthWorld.com


From scott at tactilemedia.com  Tue Feb  3 23:20:51 2004
From: scott at tactilemedia.com (Scott Rossi)
Date: Tue, 03 Feb 2004 20:20:51 -0800
Subject: Changing the clickLine
In-Reply-To: <CF18E340C73DB74C930BB2473A7F5362239039@AMTYOK01.pad.nwa.com>
Message-ID: <BC45B323.98EC%scott@tactilemedia.com>

On 2/3/04 7:51 PM, "Gardner, Joseph A" <joe.gardner at nwa.com> wrote:

> The field I have created has traversalOn set to "true" and lockText also set
> to "true". What I really need is to get the up/down arrow keys to change the
> clickLine and then simulate a mouse click at the clickLine location.

Can you use the hilitedLines property?  It sounds like what you're doing
should not involve a mouseClick at all.

Regards,

Scott Rossi
Creative Director
Tactile Media, Development & Design
-----
E: scott at tactilemedia.com
W: http://www.tactilemedia.com


From 3mcgrath at adelphia.net  Tue Feb  3 23:28:37 2004
From: 3mcgrath at adelphia.net (Thomas McGrath III)
Date: Tue, 3 Feb 2004 23:28:37 -0500
Subject: Changing the clickLine
In-Reply-To: <BC45B2C3.3C982%ambassador@fourthworld.com>
References: <BC45B2C3.3C982%ambassador@fourthworld.com>
Message-ID: <99ED34D4-56CA-11D8-8CCB-000A95DA60FA@adelphia.net>

Richard,

I just used the 'repeat for each' tonight and was actually very nervous 
because I was not used to it. It was like it didn't make sense to me. 
But actually it was what you said, i had to "unlearn" from how I did it 
before in SC.

Well now that I've used it I love it. And yes custom properties are 
very cool, too. I have a lot of plans for them in a future project.

I have yet to play with selectionChanged. I guess that will be next.

Thank you

Tom

On Feb 3, 2004, at 11:19 PM, Richard Gaskin wrote:

>   My favorite example is the "repeat for each"
> contruct, but custom property sets are a close second for me.   The
> selectionChanged and selectedObjectChanged messages are way up on that 
> list
> too.
>
> -- 
>  Richard Gaskin
>  Fourth World Media Corporation


From joe.gardner at nwa.com  Tue Feb  3 23:30:31 2004
From: joe.gardner at nwa.com (Gardner, Joseph A)
Date: Wed, 4 Feb 2004 13:30:31 +0900
Subject: Changing the clickLine
Message-ID: <CF18E340C73DB74C930BB2473A7F536223903A@AMTYOK01.pad.nwa.com>

Erik, this works one way, but how do I do the reverse (i.e., "put tKlikLine into the clickLine")? It always seems to put tKlikLine into whatever line in the field was specified by the clickLine. I'm hoping I can change the actual _wording_ of the clickLine itself rather than just acting on the line specified by the clickLine.

Appreciate your suggestion!

joe.

Erik said:

> I'd like to change 
> "line 1 of field 1" to 
> "line 2 of field 1".

put the clickLine into tKlikLine
put 2 into word 2 of tKlikLine

From jacque at hyperactivesw.com  Tue Feb  3 23:47:27 2004
From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay)
Date: Tue, 03 Feb 2004 22:47:27 -0600
Subject: slow revVideoFrameImage
In-Reply-To: <BC469B66.254E4%doug@webcrossing.com>
References: <BC469B66.254E4%doug@webcrossing.com>
Message-ID: <4020795F.8030801@hyperactivesw.com>

On 2/3/04 9:51 PM, Doug Lerner wrote:

> So it seems the revVideoFrameImage command itself is causing the app to
> pause while it finishes the video grab.

If I remember right, all externals act like that. When an external is 
called, MetaCard passes control to the external and pauses until it returns.

-- 
Jacqueline Landman Gay         |     jacque at hyperactivesw.com
HyperActive Software           |     http://www.hyperactivesw.com


From doug at webcrossing.com  Tue Feb  3 23:54:40 2004
From: doug at webcrossing.com (Doug Lerner)
Date: Wed, 04 Feb 2004 13:54:40 +0900
Subject: slow revVideoFrameImage
In-Reply-To: <4020795F.8030801@hyperactivesw.com>
Message-ID: <BC46AA20.25513%doug@webcrossing.com>

On 2/4/04 1:47 PM, "J. Landman Gay" <jacque at hyperactivesw.com> wrote:

> On 2/3/04 9:51 PM, Doug Lerner wrote:
> 
>> So it seems the revVideoFrameImage command itself is causing the app to
>> pause while it finishes the video grab.
> 
> If I remember right, all externals act like that. When an external is
> called, MetaCard passes control to the external and pauses until it returns.

What is MetaCard? A former name of Revolution?

So, there is no way around this problem?

Is there any way of capturing a video movie into a variable instead of a
file? Maybe I could then chop out a frame and reset the variable instead...?

doug


From jacque at hyperactivesw.com  Wed Feb  4 00:02:03 2004
From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay)
Date: Tue, 03 Feb 2004 23:02:03 -0600
Subject: Changing the clickLine
In-Reply-To: <CF18E340C73DB74C930BB2473A7F5362239039@AMTYOK01.pad.nwa.com>
References: <CF18E340C73DB74C930BB2473A7F5362239039@AMTYOK01.pad.nwa.com>
Message-ID: <40207CCB.6030407@hyperactivesw.com>

On 2/3/04 9:51 PM, Gardner, Joseph A wrote:

> The field I have created has traversalOn set to "true"
> and lockText also set to "true". What I really need is to get the
> up/down arrow keys to change the clickLine and then simulate a mouse
> click at the clickLine location.

The magic word, as Richard mentioned, is "selectionChanged". You get 
that message whether the user clicks in a field or uses the arrow keys 
to navigate it (provided traversalOn is true.) Trap it with a handler. 
Within the handler, check the value of the hilitedline, and you are in.

on selectionChanged
  put line (the hilitedline of me) of me into theTextValue
  -- go from here
end selectionChanged

-- 
Jacqueline Landman Gay         |     jacque at hyperactivesw.com
HyperActive Software           |     http://www.hyperactivesw.com


From jacque at hyperactivesw.com  Wed Feb  4 01:19:18 2004
From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay)
Date: Wed, 04 Feb 2004 00:19:18 -0600
Subject: slow revVideoFrameImage
In-Reply-To: <BC46AA20.25513%doug@webcrossing.com>
References: <BC46AA20.25513%doug@webcrossing.com>
Message-ID: <40208EE6.9080704@hyperactivesw.com>

On 2/3/04 10:54 PM, Doug Lerner wrote:

> What is MetaCard? A former name of Revolution?

Sorry, a slip of the wrist. Yes, MetaCard was the original name of the 
engine, now called Revolution.

> 
> So, there is no way around this problem?

Doubt it, but I'm no expert on the secret workings of externals.

-- 
Jacqueline Landman Gay         |     jacque at hyperactivesw.com
HyperActive Software           |     http://www.hyperactivesw.com

From engleerica at yahoo.com  Wed Feb  4 01:19:27 2004
From: engleerica at yahoo.com (Eric Engle)
Date: Tue, 3 Feb 2004 22:19:27 -0800 (PST)
Subject: More Good Science thanks to MC/RR!
In-Reply-To: <20040204033238.3863D930198@mail.runrev.com>
Message-ID: <20040204061927.41803.qmail@web60507.mail.yahoo.com>

'Scuse me whilst I toot my horn - & MC/RRs too!

http://www.law.suffolk.edu/stuservices/jhtl/publications.html

Heh.


That icon look familiar?


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From dsc at swcp.com  Wed Feb  4 02:36:39 2004
From: dsc at swcp.com (Dar Scott)
Date: Wed, 4 Feb 2004 00:36:39 -0700
Subject: Library stack organization and standalones
Message-ID: <DE7C6677-56E4-11D8-8947-000A9567A3E6@swcp.com>

I'm trying to plan out some library stacks and I'm concerned about 
message-path consequences when building a monolithic standalone.

I am currently considering making a single stackfile per library with 
substacks for dialogs and the library stack as the mainstack.

To this date almost all of my standalones have been made from one 
stack, though I often use stacks as "plugins" or outside libraries.

The way I read the documentation, a standalone is a single stackfile, 
that is, it will have a single main stack and all others will be 
substacks of that.  Did I misread that?

If that is the case, when I build a big monolithic app consisting of my 
primary stackfile and lots of library stackfiles, then somehow the 
mainstacks must get changed and my message path gets scrambled.

That is, the dialog stack would have the associated library stack right 
after it in the message path in development, but in the standalone, the 
application stack and other library stacks will be in between.

Is this really a consequence building a monolithic standalone?

Is there a better way to organize library stacks?

Dar Scott



From joe.gardner at nwa.com  Wed Feb  4 02:48:37 2004
From: joe.gardner at nwa.com (Gardner, Joseph A)
Date: Wed, 4 Feb 2004 16:48:37 +0900
Subject: Changing the clickLine
Message-ID: <CF18E340C73DB74C930BB2473A7F536223903E@AMTYOK01.pad.nwa.com>

Jacque et. al, I dived into the "selectionChanged" quagmire and the first thing I found in the docs was "The selectionChanged message is not sent if the user uses the arrow keys to change the selection." Ouch! The weird thing is that the selected line in the field does move up and down with the arrows (a result of the textKeys being "true"), but no action is done on the files so named in the field. So I'm now investigating the "rawKeyUp" message in hopes it will lead me to the solution I'm looking for.

OTOH, I've really simplified my code quite a bit using "selectionChanged". Richard was right; once I unlearned a bit, it actually came easily. Fear not, I'm _really_ loving Rev (bugs and all)!

joe.

p.s. Apologies to Erik, but I'm no longer interested in changing the clickLine. :)


Jacque said:

The magic word, as Richard mentioned, is "selectionChanged". You get 
that message whether the user clicks in a field or uses the arrow keys 
to navigate it (provided traversalOn is true.) Trap it with a handler. 
Within the handler, check the value of the hilitedline, and you are in.



From erikhans08 at yahoo.com  Wed Feb  4 03:01:31 2004
From: erikhans08 at yahoo.com (erik hansen)
Date: Wed, 4 Feb 2004 00:01:31 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Changing the clickLine
In-Reply-To: <CF18E340C73DB74C930BB2473A7F536223903E@AMTYOK01.pad.nwa.com>
Message-ID: <20040204080131.5416.qmail@web61107.mail.yahoo.com>

--- "Gardner, Joseph A" <joe.gardner at nwa.com>
wrote:

> p.s. Apologies to Erik, but I'm no longer
> interested in changing the clickLine. :)

could you at least consider 
the clickCharChunk?

=====
erik at erikhansen.org    http://www.erikhansen.org

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From erikhans08 at yahoo.com  Wed Feb  4 03:07:22 2004
From: erikhans08 at yahoo.com (erik hansen)
Date: Wed, 4 Feb 2004 00:07:22 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Changing the clickLine
In-Reply-To: <CF18E340C73DB74C930BB2473A7F536223903A@AMTYOK01.pad.nwa.com>
Message-ID: <20040204080722.67212.qmail@web61105.mail.yahoo.com>

--- "Gardner, Joseph A" <joe.gardner at nwa.com>
wrote:
> Erik, this works one way, 
> but how do I do the reverse
> (i.e., "put tKlikLine into the clickLine")? 
> 
>> Erik said:
>> put the clickLine into tKlikLine
>> put 2 into word 2 of tKlikLine

you would say:
put "The Gettysburg Address" into tKlikLine
-- the Krispy spelling is safer

=====
erik at erikhansen.org    http://www.erikhansen.org

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From chipp at chipp.com  Wed Feb  4 03:14:38 2004
From: chipp at chipp.com (Chipp Walters)
Date: Wed, 4 Feb 2004 02:14:38 -0600
Subject: Library stack organization and standalones
In-Reply-To: <DE7C6677-56E4-11D8-8947-000A9567A3E6@swcp.com>
Message-ID: <GGEOJBEEGFHLDOFIMMPIIECEFPAA.chipp@chipp.com>

Hi Dar,

I've got an app which has a bunch of other stacks (25 or so) and here's how
I 'architect' it:

1) Create a startup stack which is a splash screen. This splash screen has
only few purposes:

  a) To be a repository for the engine
  b) To check online (if a connection is available, else silent fail) for a
new version of itself. If a new version exists, then revGoURL the executable
and quit. Don't try and install over itself. Let IE or Netscape manage this
download as it's the MOST important download of all.
  c) Download and manage the versioning of ONE other MAIN stack, not ALL the
other stacks.
  d) Reset button to clear all other stacks and prefs file and start anew
(never know when you need it)
  e) Manage proxy servers

Here's why this works so well:

Once you get the splash stack working correctly, the idea is you NEVER have
to update it, thus you never have to build another installer, etc.. This is
why the Splash stack downloads and checks the version of only 1 other
stack - the Main stack. That way you can extend your application with more
stacks and never have to worry about messing with the standalone.

The Main stack manages all of the other stacks and downloading them and
checking their version. Now, all you need to do is manage a versions.txt
file on your server, and each time you update/bug fix/feature enhance any of
your stacks, they're immediately available to your users (if they can get
online).

Of course, the first time a user logs on, they'll need to be connected to
the Internet to download your (gzipped) stacks. I show a progress bar for
these downloads. It's easy with libURL.

Each stack has a fld "vers" visible. The Main stack checks the fld "vers"
and compares it to the version.txt it got from the internet to see if a new
one is available.

2) The Main stack has a openStack handler on card 1 (not the stack script)
which among other things does:

if there is a stack "libDar.rev" then
  start using stack "libDar.rev"
else
  goGet "libDar.rev"  --> YOU DO THIS HANDLER
end if

I typically have groups of stacks with each other. Some are separate and
others are substacks of the Main stack.

A standalone can have SubStacks. Stacks not in a standalone can have
substacks. If I were to create a libray for processing socket data, I might
have two substacks associated with it, one for logging all of the data, and
another a custom dialog. So the library would have a main stack and 2
substacks (just as you said).

One thing I'm careful of, is not downloading files to the Program Files
directory. Instead I use specialfolderpath(35)

You said, "That is, the dialog stack would have the associated library stack
right
after it in the message path in development, but in the standalone, the
application stack and other library stacks will be in between."

I'm not sure what you mean. By using the start using command, it effectively
inserts the script of the stack below the current stack script. Check out
Richard Gaskin's excellent article:

"Extending the Revolution Message Path"

http://www.fourthworld.com/embassy/articles/revolution_message_path.html

Hope this helps,

Chipp



From FlexibleLearning at aol.com  Wed Feb  4 03:29:26 2004
From: FlexibleLearning at aol.com (FlexibleLearning at aol.com)
Date: Wed, 4 Feb 2004 03:29:26 EST
Subject: Three stage checkbox?
Message-ID: <161.2b0a100d.2d520766@aol.com>

On a PC the default 'mixed' state is a tick in a grey-shaded checkbox .

On a Mac, the default 'mixed' state is a dash '-' a white checkbox (maybe OSX 
is different).

If native rev support for this were to be provided, as I think it should, it 
would make more sense to conform to the existing interface standards than 
invent a new one.

The easiest way to show all checkbox states would be to activate one of two 
three-frame gifs, one if the platform is MacOS and the other if the platform is 
win32.

My 2c.

> I like the idea of a checkbox with a question mark inside it.
> An interesting (and clear to me) interface element.

/H

From janschenkel at yahoo.com  Wed Feb  4 03:37:35 2004
From: janschenkel at yahoo.com (Jan Schenkel)
Date: Wed, 4 Feb 2004 00:37:35 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Changing the clickLine
In-Reply-To: <CF18E340C73DB74C930BB2473A7F536223903E@AMTYOK01.pad.nwa.com>
Message-ID: <20040204083735.86371.qmail@web60503.mail.yahoo.com>

--- "Gardner, Joseph A" <joe.gardner at nwa.com> wrote:
> Jacque et. al, I dived into the "selectionChanged"
> quagmire and the first thing I found in the docs was
> "The selectionChanged message is not sent if the
> user uses the arrow keys to change the selection."
> Ouch! The weird thing is that the selected line in
> the field does move up and down with the arrows (a
> result of the textKeys being "true"), but no action
> is done on the files so named in the field. So I'm
> now investigating the "rawKeyUp" message in hopes it
> will lead me to the solution I'm looking for.
> 
> OTOH, I've really simplified my code quite a bit
> using "selectionChanged". Richard was right; once I
> unlearned a bit, it actually came easily. Fear not,
> I'm _really_ loving Rev (bugs and all)!
> 
> joe.
> 

Hi Joe,

There is a simple way of getting around the built-in
limitation that the arrowkeys don't trigger the
selectionChanged handler :
--
on arrowKey pDirection
  send "selectionChanged" to me in 10 milliseconds
  pass arrowKey
end arrowKey
--

If you have a lot of lines, this constanht refrssh of
data can hurt performance, but I've explained aq
solution to that on the Revolution Documentation WIKI.
Link :
<http://www.macitworks.com:8080/revdocs>

Hope this helped,

Jan Schenkel.

=====
"As we grow older, we grow both wiser and more foolish at the same time."  (La Rochefoucauld)

__________________________________
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From dsc at swcp.com  Wed Feb  4 03:43:51 2004
From: dsc at swcp.com (Dar Scott)
Date: Wed, 4 Feb 2004 01:43:51 -0700
Subject: Library stack organization and standalones
In-Reply-To: <GGEOJBEEGFHLDOFIMMPIIECEFPAA.chipp@chipp.com>
Message-ID: <41DC788C-56EE-11D8-8947-000A9567A3E6@swcp.com>


On Wednesday, February 4, 2004, at 01:14 AM, Chipp Walters wrote:

> You said, "That is, the dialog stack would have the associated library  
> stack
> right
> after it in the message path in development, but in the standalone, the
> application stack and other library stacks will be in between."
>
> I'm not sure what you mean. By using the start using command, it  
> effectively
> inserts the script of the stack below the current stack script. Check  
> out
> Richard Gaskin's excellent article:
>
> "Extending the Revolution Message Path"
>
> http://www.fourthworld.com/embassy/articles/ 
> revolution_message_path.html

Take a look at figure 2.  Ignore the top part.  In the lower part is  
this:

Substack
MainStack
Library

Changing the mainstack of a substack of a library stack will change the  
path for that substack.

Specifically, consider this in development.  The AppStack starts using  
libraries A, B and C.

AppStack

LibraryStackA
LibraryStackB
LibraryStackC <-- LibraryStackC-Substack

Suppose I use LibraryStackC-Substack as a dialog.  It calls some  
commands in its mainstack, LibraryStackC.  The path is this:

LibraryStackC-Substack
LibraryStackC
LibraryStackA
LibraryStackB

However, if the mainstack of LibraryStackC-Substack is changed to  
AppStack in application building, then the path becomes this:

LibraryStackC-Substack
AppStack
LibraryStackA
LibraryStackB
LibraryStackC

Now 3 stacks are inserted between the dialog and its owner!

Am I misunderstanding what is happening in app building?  Is the  
mainstack actually changed?  I'm just going by what the TD says about  
the standalone being a stackfile.

Or am I misunderstanding where the library stacks go?

Dar Scott


From janschenkel at yahoo.com  Wed Feb  4 03:51:03 2004
From: janschenkel at yahoo.com (Jan Schenkel)
Date: Wed, 4 Feb 2004 00:51:03 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Three stage checkbox?
In-Reply-To: <AA9C67D8-5694-11D8-A2F8-0003937A97B8@genesearch.com.au>
Message-ID: <20040204085103.79424.qmail@web60509.mail.yahoo.com>

--- Sarah Reichelt <sarahr at genesearch.com.au> wrote:
> While normally I would agree with this and am
> familiar with the 
> techniques for using radio buttons, I have a
> database with numerous 
> fields and then a separate list of 20 items with the
> 3 options as 
> discussed. If I use 3 radio buttons for each item,
> that gives me a 
> display of 60 buttons! In this case, I think the
> users would be much 
> more comfortable with a single button for each item,
> which can display 
> the 3 different states.
> 
> Cheers,
> Sarah
> 

Hi Sarah,

How about using an option-menu instead of a
three-state checkbox or a set of radiobuttons ?
You could even accomodate for keyboard jockeys by
using comboboxes with the following little script,
which prevents users from entering in an answer that's
not in the items, while typing ahead for them the way
Excel does.
--
on keyDown pKey
  # fetch the menuitems and the typed text
  put the text of me into tMenuItems
  put the text of the target into tText
  # find out what was selected
  put the selectedChunk of the target into tChunk
  put word 2 of tChunk into tStart
  put word 4 of tChunk into tEnd
  # determine tSearchKey = the text after typing
  if tEnd < tStart
    # this means no text is selected
    put char 1 to tStart of tText & pKey & \
        char (tStart + 1) to -1 of tText \
        into tSearchKey
  else
    put char 1 to (tStart - 1) of tText & pKey & \
        char (tEnd + 1) to -1 of tText \
        into tSearchKey
  end if
  # now let's see if there is such an item
  filter tMenuItems with (tSearchKey & "*")
  # and react appropriately
  if the number of lines of tMenuItems > 0 then
    set the text of the target to \
        line 1 of tMenuItems
    select char (tStart + 1) to -1 of the target
  else beep
end keyDown
--

Hope this helped,

Jan Schenkel.

=====
"As we grow older, we grow both wiser and more foolish at the same time."  (La Rochefoucauld)

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From janschenkel at yahoo.com  Wed Feb  4 03:54:10 2004
From: janschenkel at yahoo.com (Jan Schenkel)
Date: Wed, 4 Feb 2004 00:54:10 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Library stack organization and standalones
In-Reply-To: <41DC788C-56EE-11D8-8947-000A9567A3E6@swcp.com>
Message-ID: <20040204085410.33628.qmail@web60504.mail.yahoo.com>

--- Dar Scott <dsc at swcp.com> wrote:
> Take a look at figure 2.  Ignore the top part.  In
> the lower part is  
> this:
> 
> Substack
> MainStack
> Library
> 
> Changing the mainstack of a substack of a library
> stack will change the  
> path for that substack.
> 
> Specifically, consider this in development.  The
> AppStack starts using  
> libraries A, B and C.
> 
> AppStack
> 
> LibraryStackA
> LibraryStackB
> LibraryStackC <-- LibraryStackC-Substack
> 
> Suppose I use LibraryStackC-Substack as a dialog. 
> It calls some  
> commands in its mainstack, LibraryStackC.  The path
> is this:
> 
> LibraryStackC-Substack
> LibraryStackC
> LibraryStackA
> LibraryStackB
> 
> However, if the mainstack of LibraryStackC-Substack
> is changed to  
> AppStack in application building, then the path
> becomes this:
> 
> LibraryStackC-Substack
> AppStack
> LibraryStackA
> LibraryStackB
> LibraryStackC
> 
> Now 3 stacks are inserted between the dialog and its
> owner!
> 
> Am I misunderstanding what is happening in app
> building?  Is the  
> mainstack actually changed?  I'm just going by what
> the TD says about  
> the standalone being a stackfile.
> 
> Or am I misunderstanding where the library stacks
> go?
> 
> Dar Scott
> 

Hi Dar,

When you try top include a stack with substacks in a
distribution, the Distribution Builder will not
include it in the standalone, it just mocks around
with the stackFiles to make sure the standalone can
find it.
So you'll have your library stacks sitting next to the
standalone, unless you're creating a data directory
and letting the Builder place them in there, I think.

Jan Schenkel.

=====
"As we grow older, we grow both wiser and more foolish at the same time."  (La Rochefoucauld)

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From dsc at swcp.com  Wed Feb  4 04:02:10 2004
From: dsc at swcp.com (Dar Scott)
Date: Wed, 4 Feb 2004 02:02:10 -0700
Subject: Library stack organization and standalones
In-Reply-To: <20040204085410.33628.qmail@web60504.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <D10AEFD0-56F0-11D8-8947-000A9567A3E6@swcp.com>


On Wednesday, February 4, 2004, at 01:54 AM, Jan Schenkel wrote:

> When you try top include a stack with substacks in a
> distribution, the Distribution Builder will not
> include it in the standalone, it just mocks around
> with the stackFiles to make sure the standalone can
> find it.

Then I'll have to write a script to take the stacks and make one stack 
file?  I could test that one stack file.  It sure makes a mess of 
development.

It seems that the Distribution Builder is optimized around an 
organization like Chipp's applications, but can only work for simple 
monolithic apps, then.

I would have preferred to use libraries and then include them in a big 
standalone without fooling with them.

Earlier, when building apps that loaded stacks, I didn't realize I was 
actually getting around a limitation.

Dar Scott


From dvk at dvkconsult.com.au  Wed Feb  4 04:09:26 2004
From: dvk at dvkconsult.com.au (David Vaughan)
Date: Wed, 4 Feb 2004 20:09:26 +1100
Subject: Rev Review
In-Reply-To: <20040204085448.74E039301E0@mail.runrev.com>
References: <20040204085448.74E039301E0@mail.runrev.com>
Message-ID: <D51BD671-56F1-11D8-AABA-000A95729266@dvkconsult.com.au>

Rev 2.1 has now been reviewed in Australian MacWorld (Feb p68)

Andy Ihnatko's review is generally positive in a post-Hypercard way 
although I personally disagree with his closing comment: "Just don't 
imagine that you'll be able to build the ambitious programs you can 
turn out in RealBasic and Xcode".

regards
David


From jbv.silences at Club-Internet.fr  Wed Feb  4 04:43:48 2004
From: jbv.silences at Club-Internet.fr (jbv)
Date: Wed, 04 Feb 2004 10:43:48 +0100
Subject: Valentina?  & Linux
References: <E56D7EA8-569D-11D8-B27C-000A95B02D84@mac.com>
	<6998F7B6-56B7-11D8-A478-000A956C462A@mangomultimedia.com>
Message-ID: <4020BECF.AA7FF936@Club-Internet.fr>

Speaking of Valentina, I went to their website
lately and didn't see any Linux logo...
Have they dropped development for Linux ?

JB


From rjb at rz.uni-potsdam.de  Wed Feb  4 05:06:52 2004
From: rjb at rz.uni-potsdam.de (Robert Brenstein)
Date: Wed, 4 Feb 2004 11:06:52 +0100
Subject: Valentina?  & Linux
In-Reply-To: <4020BECF.AA7FF936@Club-Internet.fr>
References: <E56D7EA8-569D-11D8-B27C-000A95B02D84@mac.com>
 <6998F7B6-56B7-11D8-A478-000A956C462A@mangomultimedia.com>
 <4020BECF.AA7FF936@Club-Internet.fr>
Message-ID: <a06020408bc4673ea86d2@[141.89.100.235]>

>Speaking of Valentina, I went to their website
>lately and didn't see any Linux logo...
>Have they dropped development for Linux ?
>
>JB

Send email directly to Ruslan or post to Valentina list to get the 
latest scoop. As far as I know, it is still in their schedule but 
their main focus right now is with the server and new technologies 
for version 2.

Robert

From frank at backtalk.com  Wed Feb  4 05:38:40 2004
From: frank at backtalk.com (Frank Leahy)
Date: Wed, 4 Feb 2004 10:38:40 +0000
Subject: slow revVideoFrameImage
In-Reply-To: <20040204033238.3863D930198@mail.runrev.com>
Message-ID: <4BD64295-56FE-11D8-A8C6-000A9580FCCE@backtalk.com>

Does the frame grabbing code have to be in the same app?  What about 
building a second app that does just frame grabbing -- that way the 
user could put it in the background and keep working in their 
foreground app.

-- Frank

> In this app, at the same time people are doing other things, like text
> input, etc. But during revVideoFrameImage everything else stops.
>
> Is there a way of not having revVideoFrameImage itself hog the whole 
> cpu
> when it does its frame grab?
>
> Thanks,
>
> doug


From doug at webcrossing.com  Wed Feb  4 07:09:55 2004
From: doug at webcrossing.com (Doug Lerner)
Date: Wed, 04 Feb 2004 21:09:55 +0900
Subject: slow revVideoFrameImage
In-Reply-To: <4BD64295-56FE-11D8-A8C6-000A9580FCCE@backtalk.com>
Message-ID: <BC471023.2559A%doug@webcrossing.com>

But then wouldn't there be the same pause while the frame grabbed data is
retrieved and brought into the main app? Anyway, it does have to be one
integrated app for what I am doing...

doug

On 2/4/04 7:38 PM, "Frank Leahy" <frank at backtalk.com> wrote:

> Does the frame grabbing code have to be in the same app?  What about
> building a second app that does just frame grabbing -- that way the
> user could put it in the background and keep working in their
> foreground app.
> 
> -- Frank
> 
>> In this app, at the same time people are doing other things, like text
>> input, etc. But during revVideoFrameImage everything else stops.
>> 
>> Is there a way of not having revVideoFrameImage itself hog the whole
>> cpu
>> when it does its frame grab?
>> 
>> Thanks,
>> 
>> doug
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution


From rjb at rz.uni-potsdam.de  Wed Feb  4 08:12:47 2004
From: rjb at rz.uni-potsdam.de (Robert Brenstein)
Date: Wed, 4 Feb 2004 14:12:47 +0100
Subject: Encryption of Saved Stack of Standalone (Linux)
In-Reply-To: <1EE4A3F3-5685-11D8-8947-000A9567A3E6@swcp.com>
References: <1EE4A3F3-5685-11D8-8947-000A9567A3E6@swcp.com>
Message-ID: <a0602040bbc469cf92c6b@[141.89.100.235]>

>On Tuesday, February 3, 2004, at 01:02 PM, Bojsza wrote:
>
>>From the Transcript dictionary for encrypt it says that mcEncrypt 
>>is an internal function...so how can I do it? Is their another 
>>function built in?
>
>Look at password and passKey in the Transcript dictionary.
>
>When you clone to create a data stack, set the password and the passKey.
>When you load a data stack, set the passKey.
>I'm not sure whether you need to empty the passKey before saving the 
>data stack; I would imagine so.
>
>Guessing...
>
>Dar Scott

Unfortunately, setting password protection for a stack is currently a 
one-way street: setting passKey at execution time will open the stack 
to prying eyes with no option to close it back until Revolution quits.

I submitted a bug/enhancement request last year asking to implement 
setting passKey to empty to relock (re-encrypt) the stack if it was 
unlocked at runtime (can't quote bug # since Bugzilla is being 
reworked). May be more votes are needed. I can't imagine it is hard 
to implement.

Robert Brenstein

From ambassador at fourthworld.com  Wed Feb  4 10:11:27 2004
From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin)
Date: Wed, 04 Feb 2004 07:11:27 -0800
Subject: Rev Review
In-Reply-To: <D51BD671-56F1-11D8-AABA-000A95729266@dvkconsult.com.au>
Message-ID: <BC464B9F.3C9EA%ambassador@fourthworld.com>

David Vaughan wrote:

> Rev 2.1 has now been reviewed in Australian MacWorld (Feb p68)
> 
> Andy Ihnatko's review is generally positive in a post-Hypercard way
> although I personally disagree with his closing comment: "Just don't
> imagine that you'll be able to build the ambitious programs you can
> turn out in RealBasic and Xcode".

I think Andy's never been to:

<http://www.runrev.com/Revolution1/chooserevolution/index.shtml>

-- 
 Richard Gaskin 
 Fourth World Media Corporation
 ___________________________________________________________
 Ambassador at FourthWorld.com       http://www.FourthWorld.com


From ambassador at fourthworld.com  Wed Feb  4 10:44:28 2004
From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin)
Date: Wed, 04 Feb 2004 07:44:28 -0800
Subject: Changing the clickLine
In-Reply-To: <20040204083735.86371.qmail@web60503.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <BC46535C.3C9F2%ambassador@fourthworld.com>

Jan Schenkel wrote:

> There is a simple way of getting around the built-in
> limitation that the arrowkeys don't trigger the
> selectionChanged handler

I think this is one of those rare cases where my being too lazy to RTFM has
paid off:  I didn't know selectionChanged was documented as not working with
arrow keys so just the other day I built something that uses it -- and it
works.

Perhaps this is a fairly recent change (in my experience it's been very rare
that I've found a mismatch between the documentation and actual behavior),
but it's a welcome one for me.

-- 
 Richard Gaskin 
 Fourth World Media Corporation
 ___________________________________________________________
 Ambassador at FourthWorld.com       http://www.FourthWorld.com


From rcozens at pon.net  Wed Feb  4 09:15:18 2004
From: rcozens at pon.net (Rob Cozens)
Date: Wed, 4 Feb 2004 07:15:18 -0700
Subject: Labels and labeled Fields
In-Reply-To: <7B0970E7-5686-11D8-8947-000A9567A3E6@swcp.com>
References: <7B0970E7-5686-11D8-8947-000A9567A3E6@swcp.com>
Message-ID: <a05100300bc46abe98e6d@[66.52.165.140]>

>I find that setting up label fields and (more so) data fields with 
>associated label fields to be very tedious.  Ideas?

Hi Dar,

Presently, I create one label field & one data field, copy them, 
paste the pair as often as needed, and rename the fields.  Yes, it 
can be tedious: in one UI I'm playing with, the "input group" 
consists of a minimum of three controls--the input field, a title 
(label) BUTTON, and a help prompt field.

It seems to me the best approach would be a developer's plugin that 
supports creation, naming, and placement of multiple controls (or a 
group containing multiple controls) in one command...or something 
more RADical.
-- 

Rob Cozens
CCW, Serendipity Software Company
http://www.oenolog.net/who.htm

"And I, which was two fooles, do so grow three;
Who are a little wise, the best fooles bee."

from "The Triple Foole" by John Donne (1572-1631)

From rcozens at pon.net  Wed Feb  4 09:34:50 2004
From: rcozens at pon.net (Rob Cozens)
Date: Wed, 4 Feb 2004 07:34:50 -0700
Subject: Rev Review
In-Reply-To: <D51BD671-56F1-11D8-AABA-000A95729266@dvkconsult.com.au>
References: <20040204085448.74E039301E0@mail.runrev.com>
 <D51BD671-56F1-11D8-AABA-000A95729266@dvkconsult.com.au>
Message-ID: <a05100301bc46af72632a@[66.52.165.140]>

>Andy Ihnatko's review is generally positive in a post-Hypercard way 
>although I personally disagree with his closing comment: "Just don't 
>imagine that you'll be able to build the ambitious programs you can 
>turn out in RealBasic and Xcode".

David, et al:

This is just one more reason I don't miss Macworld since I let my 
subscription expire.

If Andy's statement began a paragraph followed by reasoning that 
substantiated (or at least explained) his assertion, I could 
understand the basis for that comment and respond accordingly.  As an 
unsubstantiated closing statement of opinion, it's BS....not to 
mention so untrue as to show Andy's total lack of understanding of 
the capabilities of Revolution.

I believe that, should the RunRev community wish to challenge Andy's 
statements and engage him in a dialog, we could easily demonstrate he 
is wrong.  However, I'm not going to push it: I've got too many irons 
in the fire to assume the quixotic task of educating a software 
reviewer for a hobbyist magazine.
-- 

Rob Cozens
CCW, Serendipity Software Company
http://www.oenolog.net/who.htm

"And I, which was two fooles, do so grow three;
Who are a little wise, the best fooles bee."

from "The Triple Foole" by John Donne (1572-1631)

From ambassador at fourthworld.com  Wed Feb  4 11:02:23 2004
From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin)
Date: Wed, 04 Feb 2004 08:02:23 -0800
Subject: More Good Science thanks to MC/RR!
In-Reply-To: <20040204061927.41803.qmail@web60507.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <BC46578F.3C9F4%ambassador@fourthworld.com>

Eric Engle wrote:

> 'Scuse me whilst I toot my horn - & MC/RRs too!
> 
> http://www.law.suffolk.edu/stuservices/jhtl/publications.html

That paper is a fine piece o' work.  Very interesting read.

Careful - keep this up and you might replace a few highly-compensated
international attorneys with Rev-based apps. :)

Bucky Fuller once used a computer model to help resolve a labor dispute
Henry Ford was having diffficulty negotiating (to Ford's chagrin the model
suggested it was in the company's interests to grant the raise the workers
were asking for).

I think humanity has just barely tapped the potential for using computer
modelling of complex social problems as a way of minimizing the emotional
elements inherent in such decision-making, providing a reminder of a purely
rational perspective.   Your paper helps shed good light on practical
applications of such things - thanks for posting that URL.

Have you considered posting a Mac version there as well?   And/or perhaps
add the stackfile to RevNet (there's a category for Education that's
presently empty)?

-- 
 Richard Gaskin 
 Fourth World Media Corporation
 ___________________________________________________________
 Ambassador at FourthWorld.com       http://www.FourthWorld.com


From rcozens at pon.net  Wed Feb  4 10:04:10 2004
From: rcozens at pon.net (Rob Cozens)
Date: Wed, 4 Feb 2004 08:04:10 -0700
Subject: Rev Review
In-Reply-To: <BC464B9F.3C9EA%ambassador@fourthworld.com>
References: <BC464B9F.3C9EA%ambassador@fourthworld.com>
Message-ID: <a05100303bc46b75f3fe8@[66.52.165.203]>

>I think Andy's never been to:
>
><http://www.runrev.com/Revolution1/chooserevolution/index.shtml>

Richard, et al:

If one were preparing a review of RunRev for publication, wouldn't 
that be the place to start?

As an aside, I wonder if the level of expertise in the subject, depth 
of analysis, and volume of unsubstantiated statements of opinion 
would be different in reviews published in journals for professional 
developers than the "review lites" published in hobbyist magazines? 

I would not take it lightly if a potential client told me, "You are 
out of the running for this project because Andy Ihnatko says 
Revolution won't do what Real Basic does".  [Or I could respond, "Boy 
am I lucky: I was about to bid on a project for a client who doesn't 
have a clue as to real-world reality!"]    :{`}
-- 

Rob Cozens
CCW, Serendipity Software Company
http://www.oenolog.net/who.htm

"And I, which was two fooles, do so grow three;
Who are a little wise, the best fooles bee."

from "The Triple Foole" by John Donne (1572-1631)

From ambassador at fourthworld.com  Wed Feb  4 11:22:02 2004
From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin)
Date: Wed, 04 Feb 2004 08:22:02 -0800
Subject: Section 508 compliance
Message-ID: <BC465C2A.3C9FA%ambassador@fourthworld.com>

One of our HyperRESEARCH (a Rev-based tool for qualitative analysis)
customers is blind and has asked whether we have plans for compliance with
Section 508, the accessibility guidelines that govern US federal software
and Web application purchasing:

<http://www.section508.gov/index.cfm?FuseAction=Content&ID=12>

Have any of you made Section 508-compliant apps, and if so what challenges
did you find and how did you overcome them?

For example, ? 1194.31(a) seems vague and rather hard to achieve in
software:

  Functional performance criteria.

  (a) At least one mode of operation and information retrieval
  that does not require user vision shall be provided, or
  support for assistive technology used by people who are
  blind or visually impaired  shall be provided.

Do your apps allow keyboard control for all actions in addition to
responding to the mouse?  Any problems with screen readers and Rev's
internal text engine?

Do you have a favorite Web forum or discussion list you could recommend?

TIA - 

-- 
 Richard Gaskin 
 Fourth World Media Corporation
 ___________________________________________________________
 Ambassador at FourthWorld.com       http://www.FourthWorld.com


From xbury.cs at clearstream.com  Wed Feb  4 11:24:30 2004
From: xbury.cs at clearstream.com (xbury.cs at clearstream.com)
Date: Wed, 4 Feb 2004 17:24:30 +0100
Subject: Rev Review
Message-ID: <OF985B5A9A.A6FCFAA5-ONC1256E30.0058E050-C1256E30.005A22AB@deutsche-boerse.de>

A good person to ask might be the critique Micheal Kaine from ddj.com
which is an outstanding professional programmer magazine.

He's talked about HyperCard on many occasions...

Xavier

Visit us at http://www.clearstream.com
                                                          
IMPORTANT MESSAGE

Internet communications are not secure and therefore Clearstream International does not accept legal responsibility for the contents of this message.

The information contained in this e-mail is confidential and may be legally privileged. It is intended solely for the addressee. If you are not the intended recipient, any disclosure, copying, distribution or any action taken or omitted to be taken in reliance on it, is prohibited and may be unlawful. Any views expressed in this e-mail are those of the individual sender, except where the sender specifically states them to be the views of Clearstream International or of any of its affiliates or subsidiaries.

END OF DISCLAIMER

From jacque at hyperactivesw.com  Wed Feb  4 11:25:28 2004
From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay)
Date: Wed, 04 Feb 2004 10:25:28 -0600
Subject: Changing the clickLine
In-Reply-To: <CF18E340C73DB74C930BB2473A7F536223903E@AMTYOK01.pad.nwa.com>
References: <CF18E340C73DB74C930BB2473A7F536223903E@AMTYOK01.pad.nwa.com>
Message-ID: <40211CF8.1020704@hyperactivesw.com>

On 2/4/04 1:48 AM, Gardner, Joseph A wrote:

> Jacque et. al, I dived into the "selectionChanged" quagmire and the
> first thing I found in the docs was "The selectionChanged message is
> not sent if the user uses the arrow keys to change the selection."

Oops. The docs are wrong, I'm afraid. SelectionChanged works fine with 
arrow keys.


-- 
Jacqueline Landman Gay         |     jacque at hyperactivesw.com
HyperActive Software           |     http://www.hyperactivesw.com

From xbury.cs at clearstream.com  Wed Feb  4 11:34:24 2004
From: xbury.cs at clearstream.com (xbury.cs at clearstream.com)
Date: Wed, 4 Feb 2004 17:34:24 +0100
Subject: Rev Review
Message-ID: <OF0E67A155.E0FFB1BF-ONC1256E30.005AC440-C1256E30.005B0AE5@deutsche-boerse.de>

Sorry, it was Michael Swaine
http://www.ddj.com/documents/ddj0212p/

A free Registration seems required! 

On 04/02/2004 17:24:30 use-revolution-bounces wrote:
>A good person to ask might be the critique Micheal Kaine from ddj.com
>which is an outstanding professional programmer magazine.
>
>He's talked about HyperCard on many occasions...
>
>Xavier
>


Visit us at http://www.clearstream.com
                                                          
IMPORTANT MESSAGE

Internet communications are not secure and therefore Clearstream International does not accept legal responsibility for the contents of this message.

The information contained in this e-mail is confidential and may be legally privileged. It is intended solely for the addressee. If you are not the intended recipient, any disclosure, copying, distribution or any action taken or omitted to be taken in reliance on it, is prohibited and may be unlawful. Any views expressed in this e-mail are those of the individual sender, except where the sender specifically states them to be the views of Clearstream International or of any of its affiliates or subsidiaries.

END OF DISCLAIMER

From rcozens at pon.net  Wed Feb  4 10:35:50 2004
From: rcozens at pon.net (Rob Cozens)
Date: Wed, 4 Feb 2004 08:35:50 -0700
Subject: Labels and labeled Fields
Message-ID: <a05100300bc46bfe03f37@[66.52.165.203]>

>It seems to me the best approach would be a developer's plugin

Picture a plugin stack with one or more hidden groups (eg: Dar's 
label & data field pair; another label & data field pair with 
different handlers; my title button, data field, & help field triad).

Now add menuItems and/or buttons to select a group, place a copy on a 
designated card, name the controls, and enter initial field values 
and/or an icon id for the title button.

Could it be easier than that?
-- 

Rob Cozens
CCW, Serendipity Software Company
http://www.oenolog.net/who.htm

"And I, which was two fooles, do so grow three;
Who are a little wise, the best fooles bee."

from "The Triple Foole" by John Donne (1572-1631)

From rcozens at pon.net  Wed Feb  4 10:44:00 2004
From: rcozens at pon.net (Rob Cozens)
Date: Wed, 4 Feb 2004 08:44:00 -0700
Subject: Labels and labeled Fields
In-Reply-To: <a05100300bc46bfe03f37@[66.52.165.203]>
References: <a05100300bc46bfe03f37@[66.52.165.203]>
Message-ID: <a05100301bc46c35b10ad@[66.52.165.184]>

>Could it be easier than that?

Looks like an item for the SDB Tools plugin To-Do list.
-- 

Rob Cozens
CCW, Serendipity Software Company
http://www.oenolog.net/who.htm

"And I, which was two fooles, do so grow three;
Who are a little wise, the best fooles bee."

from "The Triple Foole" by John Donne (1572-1631)

From gizmotron at earthlink.net  Wed Feb  4 11:57:05 2004
From: gizmotron at earthlink.net (Mark Brownell)
Date: Wed, 4 Feb 2004 08:57:05 -0800
Subject: Rev Review
In-Reply-To: <a05100303bc46b75f3fe8@[66.52.165.203]>
Message-ID: <290E98C2-5733-11D8-B780-000A95859272@earthlink.net>


On Wednesday, February 4, 2004, at 07:04  AM, Rob Cozens quoted:

>> I think Andy's never been to:
>>
>> <http://www.runrev.com/Revolution1/chooserevolution/index.shtml>

It is no wonder that Andy didn't see this "Made with Revolution" web 
page. There is no link to it on the Runtime Revolution webpage. I 
wonder why this page is kept in the dark. All I could find is a 
submissions page for those that would like to add their own product 
listings.

Why?

I searched Google and found this:
http://www.runrev.com/revolution/info/madewithrev/

So what's this about? (runrev.com/Revolution1/ vs 
runrev.com/Revolution/)

  Revolution1 is the new mother ship and there is no reference to Made 
with Revolution at it. That old link is now a redirect page.

Mark


From dsc at swcp.com  Wed Feb  4 11:57:36 2004
From: dsc at swcp.com (Dar Scott)
Date: Wed, 4 Feb 2004 09:57:36 -0700
Subject: Encryption of Saved Stack of Standalone (Linux)
In-Reply-To: <a0602040bbc469cf92c6b@[141.89.100.235]>
Message-ID: <3BBF1986-5733-11D8-B3C0-000A9567A3E6@swcp.com>


On Wednesday, February 4, 2004, at 06:12 AM, Robert Brenstein wrote:

> Unfortunately, setting password protection for a stack is currently a 
> one-way street: setting passKey at execution time will open the stack 
> to prying eyes with no option to close it back until Revolution quits.

Can you do all you need by just setting the password as Dave suggested?

Dar


From dsc at swcp.com  Wed Feb  4 12:02:33 2004
From: dsc at swcp.com (Dar Scott)
Date: Wed, 4 Feb 2004 10:02:33 -0700
Subject: Labels and labeled Fields
In-Reply-To: <BC455DC4.3C913%ambassador@fourthworld.com>
Message-ID: <ECE893C2-5733-11D8-B3C0-000A9567A3E6@swcp.com>


On Tuesday, February 3, 2004, at 03:16 PM, Richard Gaskin wrote:

> Look in RevNet for "4W FormMaker" -- instant fields with matching 
> labels.

Thanks!

Is there some advantage of buttons as labels over fields?

Dar Scott


From ambassador at fourthworld.com  Wed Feb  4 12:08:28 2004
From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin)
Date: Wed, 04 Feb 2004 09:08:28 -0800
Subject: Rev Review
In-Reply-To: <a05100301bc46af72632a@[66.52.165.140]>
Message-ID: <BC46670C.3CA13%ambassador@fourthworld.com>

Rob Cozens wrote:

>> Andy Ihnatko's review is generally positive in a post-Hypercard way
>> although I personally disagree with his closing comment: "Just don't
>> imagine that you'll be able to build the ambitious programs you can
>> turn out in RealBasic and Xcode".
> 
> If Andy's statement began a paragraph followed by reasoning that
> substantiated (or at least explained) his assertion, I could
> understand the basis for that comment and respond accordingly.  As an
> unsubstantiated closing statement of opinion, it's BS....not to
> mention so untrue as to show Andy's total lack of understanding of
> the capabilities of Revolution.

If Andy were writing a white paper I'd agree wholeheartedly, but in all
fairness to the tough job of reviewing software for print magazines I would
venture to guess there is neither the time to do thorough analysis and
benchmarking, nor the space to print results if there were.

FWIW, the average per-word rate magazines pay has increased on 25% over the
last 30 years.  It's a hard job.

A vendor can make that job easier by aniticipating perceptions and
addressing them proactively with a strong reviewer's guide.

Whenever I get a review, I take _all_ noted "cons" to heart as my
responsibilty:

- Those things that are objective weaknesses in the software
  (nothing is perfect, everything can be improved) need my
  attention in developing the next version.

- Those things that are merely misperceptions need my attention
  in crafting a better reviewer's guide to concisely present
  the software's true strengths.

There are probably a few reviewers who are merely lazy malcontents who won't
be happy with anything you do.  But most are merely overworked, underpaid,
and generally in earnest about their job, and I would assert that Andy is
one of the better ones.

The role of criticism in any medium is valuable to the craft:  a reviewr
lives in a noisy world with too much information flooding in and no time to
thoroughly analyze everything.  In this respect they are very much like
potential customers, and when they gripe it gives those of us too close to
the work a valuable insight into how to hone our message so it's a better
representation of what the work really delivers.  It's sort of like
usability testing for one's marketing.

A good reviewer's guide can really help make a reviewer's job much easier,
and they'll appreciate the effort.  Writing for print publications really is
a very hard job.

My favorite example is Adobe GoLive:  there is a common mispercetion that
GoLiive's JavaScript code is somehow bloated, yet a more reasoned analysis
of their architecture demonstrates that while aspects of it may be uncommon
it's at least on par with its competition, and in some cases does better
error-checking in the same or fewer lines.  But most GoLive fans (and a few
Adobe folks it seems) complain about this meme without making the effort to
correct it.  To Adobe's credit they did publish a white paper on the
subject, but without an accompanying press release and the paper is buried
in their site.  The strength of their JavaScript architecture has not found
its way into their key bullet points, and I don't think the white paper is
included in the reviewer's guide.

We have no control over other people, but we can always take more refined
control of the message we deliver.  Don't shoot the messenger, any more than
you would shoot your usability testers when a pet feature scores low. :)


> I believe that, should the RunRev community wish to challenge Andy's
> statements and engage him in a dialog, we could easily demonstrate he
> is wrong.  However, I'm not going to push it: I've got too many irons
> in the fire to assume the quixotic task of educating a software
> reviewer for a hobbyist magazine.

Wise.

I don't think it's worth debating with him per se, as such contention would
not likely yield the result we're looking for.

Perhaps the best way to make the case for Rev is not with words but with
actions:

- Developers: Deliver world-class apps and market the heck out of 'em
              (I can't say enough good things about Jay Conrad Levinson's
              'Guerilla Marketing' books)

              Anyone can release a product but releasing a great product
              takes time, sweat and commitment, and marketing it effectively
              even more so.  But it can be done, and with Rev it can be
              done more cost-effectively than with any other tool.


- RunRev:     Enhance the Gallery to include screen shots, and maybe add a
              Case Studies section to describe the unique contribtions Rev
              made to the development of exceptional software with far-
              below-indistry-average costs.


-- 
 Richard Gaskin 
 Fourth World Media Corporation
 Developer of WebMerge: Publish any database on any Web site
 ___________________________________________________________
 Ambassador at FourthWorld.com       http://www.FourthWorld.com


From ambassador at fourthworld.com  Wed Feb  4 12:11:17 2004
From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin)
Date: Wed, 04 Feb 2004 09:11:17 -0800
Subject: Labels and labeled Fields
In-Reply-To: <ECE893C2-5733-11D8-B3C0-000A9567A3E6@swcp.com>
Message-ID: <BC4667B5.3CA17%ambassador@fourthworld.com>

Dar Scott wrote:

> 
> On Tuesday, February 3, 2004, at 03:16 PM, Richard Gaskin wrote:
> 
>> Look in RevNet for "4W FormMaker" -- instant fields with matching
>> labels.
> 
> Thanks!
> 
> Is there some advantage of buttons as labels over fields?

I fell into the habit some time ago when I inherited a database app that
used a loop to pour contents into fields, matching item number with field
number.  By using buttons as labels I reserve fields for content, minimizing
the risks of repeating that clamity. :)

-- 
 Richard Gaskin 
 Fourth World Media Corporation
 ___________________________________________________________
 Ambassador at FourthWorld.com       http://www.FourthWorld.com


From ambassador at fourthworld.com  Wed Feb  4 12:18:36 2004
From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin)
Date: Wed, 04 Feb 2004 09:18:36 -0800
Subject: Rev Review
In-Reply-To: <290E98C2-5733-11D8-B780-000A95859272@earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <BC46696B.3CA1A%ambassador@fourthworld.com>

Mark Brownell wrote:

> 
> On Wednesday, February 4, 2004, at 07:04  AM, Rob Cozens quoted:
> 
>>> I think Andy's never been to:
>>> 
>>> <http://www.runrev.com/Revolution1/chooserevolution/index.shtml>
> 
> It is no wonder that Andy didn't see this "Made with Revolution" web
> page. There is no link to it on the Runtime Revolution webpage. I
> wonder why this page is kept in the dark. All I could find is a
> submissions page for those that would like to add their own product
> listings.

You should also see a list of categories for existing entries.

Maybe more effective would be to have a featured app on that index page,
changing it monthy.

It would also be helpful to have the gallery linked from every page, and
prominently from the first page.  "What can I do with it?" is perhaps the
most frequently asked question of all, esp. for prospective customers and
reviewers.

-- 
 Richard Gaskin 
 Fourth World Media Corporation
 ___________________________________________________________
 Ambassador at FourthWorld.com       http://www.FourthWorld.com


From pixelbird at interisland.net  Wed Feb  4 12:22:54 2004
From: pixelbird at interisland.net (Ken Norris)
Date: Wed, 04 Feb 2004 09:22:54 -0800
Subject: Changing the clickLine
In-Reply-To: <20040204085448.A6D5A9301E3@mail.runrev.com>
Message-ID: <BC466A6E.4C3B%pixelbird@interisland.net>

Hello Jan,

> Date: Wed, 4 Feb 2004 00:37:35 -0800 (PST)
> From: Jan Schenkel <janschenkel at yahoo.com>
> Subject: Re: Changing the clickLine

> If you have a lot of lines, this constanht refrssh of
> data can hurt performance, but I've explained aq
> solution to that on the Revolution Documentation WIKI.
> Link :
> <http://www.macitworks.com:8080/revdocs>
-----------
I'd like to read your explanation, but I'm getting an error -- The specified
server could not be found.

Ken N.




From frank at backtalk.com  Wed Feb  4 12:30:19 2004
From: frank at backtalk.com (Frank Leahy)
Date: Wed, 4 Feb 2004 17:30:19 +0000
Subject: Rev Review
In-Reply-To: <20040204160420.2D6719301FB@mail.runrev.com>
Message-ID: <CDD4DA21-5737-11D8-A8C6-000A9580FCCE@backtalk.com>

Richard,

I happen to really like RunRev.  But I'm only using it because I know 
Dan Shafer, and in the process of emailing him about another project 
mentioned that I was going to use RealBasic for my photo album project, 
and he, in quite large capitals, SUGGESTED I USE RR INSTEAD.

Before Dan convinced me otherwise, I had looked at the two web sites 
(RR vs RB), the two IDEs, the plug-ins available, and the two user 
communities, and had come up with this list of why I thought RealBasic 
was a better choice:

1) the RB user group is much more active, and there are tons more 
plugins written for it.

2) you can override a lot more things in RB -- e.g. you can override 
the draw method of a list box and get an alternating blue and white 
background.

3) RB has a pretty good table box, which RunRev doesn't have (you can 
fake it, but who wants to have to fake it all the time).

4) The RB app builder is slicker, and seemed to have better placement 
and movement options.

5) The RB geometry engine is much easier to use and understand, and it 
seemed to work better too.

So, all in all it looked like RB was a better choice.

Now back to your comment about the RR apps at 
http://www.runrev.com/Revolution1/chooserevolution/index.shtml.  I hope 
you don't mind me being blunt, but that page is quite poorly laid out 
(as, I'm sorry to say, is the rest of the RR web site).  I don't know 
why there are two levels on that page because there really aren't 
enough programs under each of the categories to make it worth having 
the second level page.  And, in looking at the programs listed I'd have 
to agree with Andy that there aren't any that I would call particularly 
"ambitious" either.

But enough of the complaints.  Here are a couple of suggestions for how 
the RR site could be made better:

1. Needs a basic overhaul -- layout, wording, all pages linked in 
somewhere, etc.  And the online purchase process needs some help too.

2. Thd docs should be online, and should be comment-able by users.  
Take a look at the PHP 
(http://www.php.net/manual/en/features.http-auth.php -- look at all the 
comments at the bottom of the page) and MySql 
(http://www.mysql.com/doc/en/index.html -- same for comments at bottom 
of the page) online docs -- both are searchable, and comment-able.

3. Lots of lightweight examples are needed.  RR can do a bunch of stuff 
easier than RB, and there needs to be a couple of dozen examples 
showing how cool some of these features are: images, QT, audio, video, 
file manipulation, database, etc.  These should all be downloadable as 
standalone mini-apps that run on every platform available.

4. Pricing.  If they're going to compete with RB (but maybe they're 
not?), RR should rethink pricing a bit.  $299 minimum for a single 
machine against a $99 minimum for RB was a tough nut to swallow (for 
$199 you can buy both Mac and Windows IDEs for RB).  After Dan's email 
I spent a month building the program, but I wouldn't have ever started 
just by looking at the $299.

5. Target platforms.  A long time ago (1994) I wrote a web server 
plugin that worked on Mac WebStar web server, Windows IIS web server, 
as well as Apache and Netscape servers that ran on Solaris, BSD, Linux, 
FreeBSD and SGI.  I was convinced that supporting all those platforms 
was going to give me a big boost against my competitors.  But all it 
did was take my eye off the ball, and with all those platforms to 
compile and test for I didn't have enough cycles left to add new 
features, which put me behind my competitors in terms of things that 
MOST OF MY CUSTOMERS cared about.

So, RR might consider dropping support for some or all of the 
UNIX/Linux variants if they're finding that supporting all these 
platforms is causing problems getting the next version for their 
primary platforms (Mac and Windows) out the door.  Only they know how 
many people care about UNIX/Linux, but I'll bet it's a fraction of the 
Mac/Windows market, and if it is, it might be time to let it go for a 
release of two and see what happens.

Hope this helps.

-- Frank

On Wednesday, February 4, 2004, at 04:04  PM, 
use-revolution-request at lists.runrev.com wrote:

> Subject: Re: Rev Review
> To: How to use Revolution <use-revolution at lists.runrev.com>
> Message-ID: <BC464B9F.3C9EA%ambassador at fourthworld.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
>
> David Vaughan wrote:
>
>> Rev 2.1 has now been reviewed in Australian MacWorld (Feb p68)
>>
>> Andy Ihnatko's review is generally positive in a post-Hypercard way
>> although I personally disagree with his closing comment: "Just don't
>> imagine that you'll be able to build the ambitious programs you can
>> turn out in RealBasic and Xcode".
>
> I think Andy's never been to:
>
> <http://www.runrev.com/Revolution1/chooserevolution/index.shtml>
>
> -- 
>  Richard Gaskin
>  Fourth World Media Corporation


From hershbp at realtorsgroup.us  Wed Feb  4 12:33:00 2004
From: hershbp at realtorsgroup.us (hershrev)
Date: Wed, 4 Feb 2004 12:33:00 -0500
Subject: Application Generators
In-Reply-To: <a05100301bc457137b8af@[66.52.165.44]>
Message-ID: <2D9B0DB8-5738-11D8-9071-0030654C1E62@realtorsgroup.us>

With MC I think you don't have licensing problems.
On Tuesday, February 3, 2004, at 10:44 AM, Rob Cozens wrote:

>> expect a release of Serendipity Library with AppGen features in about 
>> a week
>
> If anyone is interested in testing a pre-release version of the SDB 
> Tools plugin, contact me privately.  I should be in a position to 
> provide a download URL in 24-36 hours.
>
> Rob Cozens
> CCW, Serendipity Software Company
> http://www.oenolog.net/who.htm
>
> "And I, which was two fooles, do so grow three;
> Who are a little wise, the best fooles bee."
>
> from "The Triple Foole" by John Donne (1572-1631)
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>


From hershbp at realtorsgroup.us  Wed Feb  4 12:43:59 2004
From: hershbp at realtorsgroup.us (hershrev)
Date: Wed, 4 Feb 2004 12:43:59 -0500
Subject: remote accell
In-Reply-To: <20040203105505.50799.qmail@web60505.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <B681B59E-5739-11D8-9071-0030654C1E62@realtorsgroup.us>


On Tuesday, February 3, 2004, at 05:55 AM, Jan Schenkel wrote:

> --- hershrev <hershbp at realtorsgroup.us> wrote:
>> Hi all,
>> I built a database solution (postgres) I can't
>> connect from a different
>> computer. The fire wall is off. The DB is situated
>> on a Mac OS 10.2.9
>> Thanks hershrev
>>
>
> A few questions come to mind :
> - are you using your own scripts or rather the
> database-linked controls ?
revQuery scripts
> - what revdb error do you receive ?
connection id faild
>
> Jan Schenkel.
>
> =====
> "As we grow older, we grow both wiser and more foolish at the same 
> time."  (La Rochefoucauld)
>
> __________________________________
> Do you Yahoo!?
> Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free web site building tool. Try it!
> http://webhosting.yahoo.com/ps/sb/
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>


From ambassador at fourthworld.com  Wed Feb  4 12:54:17 2004
From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin)
Date: Wed, 04 Feb 2004 09:54:17 -0800
Subject: Rev Review
In-Reply-To: <BC46696B.3CA1A%ambassador@fourthworld.com>
Message-ID: <BC4671C9.3CA20%ambassador@fourthworld.com>

I just sent this to MacWorld -- hopefully some portion of it will appear in
the Letters section down the road:

---------------------------------------------------------------------

Jason, Andy, and the rest of the gang -

As a professional developer making applications with Revolution (see
WebMerge's 4.5-mouse review in March '03), it was gratifying to see a good
review for Revolution 2.1 in the February issue.

With all the software Andy reviews it's not surprising that he doesn't have
the time for the sort of benchmarking that may have given him a more
favorable speed comparison to BASIC and AppleScript.  For many common tasks
Rev performs on par or better, since as a true fourth-generation language
most of the work is being done in highly optimized compiled C++; scripts are
merely the lightweight glue that links these compiled routines.

And that's the strongest advantage that the review didn't mention:
productivity.  One line of Rev's scripting language often accomplishes what
takes dozens in other languages.  For example, creating an alias is a
one-liner in Rev, but takes 18 lines in C, 55 lines in BASIC, and 247 lines
in Java.

Overall it was a great review that really emphasises the "write once, run
anywhere" value that Java promises and Rev delivers.  But I know Andy's a
tinkerer, so I wanted to encourage him to explore a little more if he has
some tinkering to do, as I think he'll be pleased with what he discovers.

-- 
 Richard Gaskin 
 Fourth World Media Corporation
 Developer of WebMerge: Publish any database on any Web site
 ___________________________________________________________
 Ambassador at FourthWorld.com       http://www.FourthWorld.com


From dsc at swcp.com  Wed Feb  4 13:15:07 2004
From: dsc at swcp.com (Dar Scott)
Date: Wed, 4 Feb 2004 11:15:07 -0700
Subject: Dialogs in library organization
Message-ID: <0FEEFD12-573E-11D8-B3C0-000A9567A3E6@swcp.com>

(Let's see if I can keep from being distracted by a standalone being, 
presumably, a single stackfile.)

I'm planning some libraries.  At the time, I think some will need some 
setup help in the form of setup windows.  Maybe these can be designed 
as stacks.  (For example, if the application calls a function to 
initialize a humdinger with no parameters, the library might bring up a 
dialog box and use the parameters from that.)

How do I organize this?

My initial thought is to put these into the same stackfile as the 
library stack, that is, as substacks to the library.

Or am I modeling this all wrong?  Is it silly to have libraries bring 
up windows?

Dar Scott


From alex at mindlube.com  Wed Feb  4 13:16:44 2004
From: alex at mindlube.com (Alex Rice)
Date: Wed, 4 Feb 2004 11:16:44 -0700
Subject: Rev Review
In-Reply-To: <CDD4DA21-5737-11D8-A8C6-000A9580FCCE@backtalk.com>
References: <CDD4DA21-5737-11D8-A8C6-000A9580FCCE@backtalk.com>
Message-ID: <49A24151-573E-11D8-902C-000393C4760A@mindlube.com>


On Feb 4, 2004, at 10:30 AM, Frank Leahy wrote:


> I hope you don't mind me being blunt, but that page is quite poorly 
> laid out (as, I'm sorry to say, is the rest of the RR web site).

Have to agree. Many months ago runrev said they were hiring a web 
developer to redesign the website.

I would remove the cross-sell link to Ten Thumbs typing tutor in "Other 
Products". I donnow- it just seems amateurish to imagine a programmer 
with "ten thumbs". What, does the Runrev IDE correct typing errors too? 
;-)

>  So, RR might consider dropping support for some or all of the 
> UNIX/Linux variants if they're finding that supporting all these 
> platforms is causing problems getting the next version for their 
> primary platforms (Mac and Windows) out the door.

It's a tough issue. There are some Linux users on the list. But instead 
of Runrev trimming the list of official available platforms, what's 
happening in practice is they are poorly supported: one poster to this 
list every month or so begs for a SGI IRIX Rev engine which he has been 
trying to locate for a long time. Don't know if it's the same for the 
other UNIX platforms.

Not sure, but I think metacard used to be developed on Linux. So 
building the engine for UNIX should not be a major hurdle. The number 
of platforms available is one of Runrev's most unique features! So I 
hope they never trim the list of platforms supported.

--
Alex Rice | Mindlube Software | http://mindlube.com


From rcozens at pon.net  Wed Feb  4 12:08:31 2004
From: rcozens at pon.net (Rob Cozens)
Date: Wed, 4 Feb 2004 10:08:31 -0700
Subject: Labels and labeled Fields
In-Reply-To: <ECE893C2-5733-11D8-B3C0-000A9567A3E6@swcp.com>
References: <ECE893C2-5733-11D8-B3C0-000A9567A3E6@swcp.com>
Message-ID: <a05100302bc46d43c0803@[66.52.165.197]>

>Is there some advantage of buttons as labels over fields?

Dar, et al:

I prefer title buttons to label fields because:

1.  With the correct generic icons, translation is limited to 
toolTips (if used)

2.  Title buttons generally require less window space

3.  Title buttons are generally uniform in size

4.  Titles don't change size in different languages (especially nice 
for column titles)

5.  With appropriate sets of icons (the icon, the hilitedIcon, the 
armedIcon, the disabledIcon, the visitedIcon) and handlers, title 
buttons can respond to mouse events and otherwise interact with the 
user in many more ways than a label field can.

6.  Having reduced the process of recording winemaking activity to a 
series of point & click operations that can be performed entirely via 
the mouse, I'm a button-driven interface foole.
-- 

Rob Cozens
CCW, Serendipity Software Company
http://www.oenolog.net/who.htm

"And I, which was two fooles, do so grow three;
Who are a little wise, the best fooles bee."

from "The Triple Foole" by John Donne (1572-1631)

From rcozens at pon.net  Wed Feb  4 12:32:12 2004
From: rcozens at pon.net (Rob Cozens)
Date: Wed, 4 Feb 2004 10:32:12 -0700
Subject: Application Generators
In-Reply-To: <2D9B0DB8-5738-11D8-9071-0030654C1E62@realtorsgroup.us>
References: <2D9B0DB8-5738-11D8-9071-0030654C1E62@realtorsgroup.us>
Message-ID: <a05100303bc46d843fa11@[66.52.165.197]>

>With MC I think you don't have licensing problems.

Licensing is not the issue, AFAIK.

The issue is the standalone engine will either (a) not allow not 
allow any change to a script, or (b) not allow any change to a 
script > 10 statements, I'm not sure which.

I had a conversation with Kevin Miller about this some time ago, as I 
was looking at the feasibility of writing updater stacks that could 
bring older versions of an application up to present specs.  My 
recollection was Kevin said it might be possible to replace an 
existing button with the old script with a new button with the new 
script; but it was not possible replace the existing script in the 
old button.

And while I say, "licensing is not the issue", I believe that there 
is an underlying (& understandable) motive: if one could use 
Revolution to build an application that other users can use to 
generate applications, one has, in effect, entered into competition 
with Runtime Revolution Ltd.
-- 

Rob Cozens
CCW, Serendipity Software Company
http://www.oenolog.net/who.htm

"And I, which was two fooles, do so grow three;
Who are a little wise, the best fooles bee."

from "The Triple Foole" by John Donne (1572-1631)

From Roger.E.Eller at sealedair.com  Wed Feb  4 13:33:12 2004
From: Roger.E.Eller at sealedair.com (Roger.E.Eller at sealedair.com)
Date: Wed, 4 Feb 2004 13:33:12 -0500
Subject: Rev Review
Message-ID: <OFDE5B2D94.513F1FE9-ON85256E30.00649E0E@sealedair.com>

On 02/04/2004 at 01:16 PM Alex Rice <alex at mindlube.com> wrote:

>>  So, RR might consider dropping support for some or all of the
>> UNIX/Linux variants if they're finding that supporting all these
>> platforms is causing problems getting the next version for their
>> primary platforms (Mac and Windows) out the door.
> 
> It's a tough issue. There are some Linux users on the list. But instead
> of Runrev trimming the list of official available platforms, what's
> happening in practice is they are poorly supported: one poster to this
> list every month or so begs for a SGI IRIX Rev engine which he has been
> trying to locate for a long time. Don't know if it's the same for the
> other UNIX platforms.
> 
> Not sure, but I think metacard used to be developed on Linux. So
> building the engine for UNIX should not be a major hurdle. The number
> of platforms available is one of Runrev's most unique features! So I
> hope they never trim the list of platforms supported.
> 
> --
> Alex Rice | Mindlube Software | http://mindlube.com

I am one of those who BEGS for the SGI IRIX version. We also use Yellowdog
Linux on the Mac platform because of it's stability, but cannot deploy our
Rev apps on these machines because the engines haven't been provided since
version 1.1.1. I feel that RunRev have all but abandoned the Unix 
community
that gave birth to the great MetaCard engine. Instead of focusing on OS X
specific metallic and pulsing doodads, they should be providing the 
supported
12 platforms that their marketing team used to convince me to buy 
Revolution
in the first place. I have to say that I am disappointed.

Roger Eller <roger.e.eller at sealedair.com>


From ambassador at fourthworld.com  Wed Feb  4 13:46:14 2004
From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin)
Date: Wed, 04 Feb 2004 10:46:14 -0800
Subject: Rev Review
In-Reply-To: <OFDE5B2D94.513F1FE9-ON85256E30.00649E0E@sealedair.com>
Message-ID: <BC467DF6.3CA3F%ambassador@fourthworld.com>

Roger.E.Eller at sealedair.com wrote:

> I am one of those who BEGS for the SGI IRIX version. We also use Yellowdog
> Linux on the Mac platform because of it's stability, but cannot deploy our
> Rev apps on these machines because the engines haven't been provided since
> version 1.1.1. I feel that RunRev have all but abandoned the Unix
> community
> that gave birth to the great MetaCard engine. Instead of focusing on OS X
> specific metallic and pulsing doodads, they should be providing the
> supported
> 12 platforms that their marketing team used to convince me to buy
> Revolution
> in the first place. I have to say that I am disappointed.

Hopefully that is merely a temporary side effect of transitioning the build
process from Scott to Tuviah.  Scott had a system for making builds for all
12 supprted platforms quckly, and I suspect that once Tuv's toolkit is
configured more like Scott's that will become as easy again.

-- 
 Richard Gaskin 
 Fourth World Media Corporation
 Developer of WebMerge: Publish any database on any Web site
 ___________________________________________________________
 Ambassador at FourthWorld.com       http://www.FourthWorld.com


From ambassador at fourthworld.com  Wed Feb  4 13:49:56 2004
From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin)
Date: Wed, 04 Feb 2004 10:49:56 -0800
Subject: Application Generators
In-Reply-To: <a05100303bc46d843fa11@[66.52.165.197]>
Message-ID: <BC467ED4.3CA40%ambassador@fourthworld.com>

Rob Cozens wrote:

> I had a conversation with Kevin Miller about this some time ago, as I
> was looking at the feasibility of writing updater stacks that could
> bring older versions of an application up to present specs.  My
> recollection was Kevin said it might be possible to replace an
> existing button with the old script with a new button with the new
> script; but it was not possible replace the existing script in the
> old button.

There's also the insurmountable issue that Win and UNIX/Linux will notallow
an app to modify itself.  For consistency the engine carries this over to
Mac as well.

The commonly-used solution is to externalize updateable components into
separate stack files outside of the standalone.

-- 
 Richard Gaskin 
 Fourth World Media Corporation
 ___________________________________________________________
 Ambassador at FourthWorld.com       http://www.FourthWorld.com


From ambassador at fourthworld.com  Wed Feb  4 13:50:21 2004
From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin)
Date: Wed, 04 Feb 2004 10:50:21 -0800
Subject: Application Generators
In-Reply-To: <2D9B0DB8-5738-11D8-9071-0030654C1E62@realtorsgroup.us>
Message-ID: <BC467EED.3CA41%ambassador@fourthworld.com>

hershrev wrote:

>> If anyone is interested in testing a pre-release version of the SDB
>> Tools plugin, contact me privately.  I should be in a position to
>> provide a download URL in 24-36 hours.
>
> With MC I think you don't have licensing problems.
> On Tuesday, February 3, 2004, at 10:44 AM, Rob Cozens wrote:

It was unclear from the quoted portion how licensing would enter into a
discussion of Rob's SDB plugin test period, but FWIW as noted on the front
page of the MetaCard site the MetaCard engine was acquired by RunRev in July
of last year (see the press release at
<http://www.runrev.com/metacardpr.html>).

Today, there is no longer a MetaCard product.  You can license the engine
from RunRev Ltd. at their normal prices and governed by the terms and
conditions of the Revolution License Agreement.   MetaCard customers can
continue using the MetaCard IDE or any other IDE they choose in accordance
with the engine's license terms.

I'm no attorney, but I don't the RunRev's license in any way prohibits Rob's
plugin.  :)  One the contrary, RunRev seems to encourage plugin development
and any other activity that strengthens the value of their product.

-- 
 Richard Gaskin 
 Fourth World Media Corporation
 ___________________________________________________________
 Ambassador at FourthWorld.com       http://www.FourthWorld.com


From rcozens at pon.net  Wed Feb  4 12:51:15 2004
From: rcozens at pon.net (Rob Cozens)
Date: Wed, 4 Feb 2004 10:51:15 -0700
Subject: Dialogs in library organization
In-Reply-To: <0FEEFD12-573E-11D8-B3C0-000A9567A3E6@swcp.com>
References: <0FEEFD12-573E-11D8-B3C0-000A9567A3E6@swcp.com>
Message-ID: <a05100304bc46de0f56d1@[66.52.165.197]>

>I'm planning some libraries.  At the time, I think some will need 
>some setup help in the form of setup windows.  Maybe these can be 
>designed as stacks.  (For example, if the application calls a 
>function to initialize a humdinger with no parameters, the library 
>might bring up a dialog box and use the parameters from that.)
>
>How do I organize this?
>
>My initial thought is to put these into the same stackfile as the 
>library stack, that is, as substacks to the library.

That's what I do with Serendipity Library.

>
>Or am I modeling this all wrong?  Is it silly to have libraries 
>bring up windows?

If it is, I'm silly as well as a foole.

A.  If a handler in the library needs a dialog or setup stack, what 
better place for that stack than inside the library?

B.  If a dialog or setup stack is used by several applications that 
also use the library, ditto?

Bottom line: a library stack can be a repository for resources other 
than handlers (eg: images, clips, graphics(?), and dialogs).  Unless 
a setup window is specific to a single standalone, why not maintain a 
single instance of it in a library?
-- 

Rob Cozens
CCW, Serendipity Software Company
http://www.oenolog.net/who.htm

"And I, which was two fooles, do so grow three;
Who are a little wise, the best fooles bee."

from "The Triple Foole" by John Donne (1572-1631)

From dsc at swcp.com  Wed Feb  4 14:05:13 2004
From: dsc at swcp.com (Dar Scott)
Date: Wed, 4 Feb 2004 12:05:13 -0700
Subject: Dialogs in library organization
In-Reply-To: <a05100304bc46de0f56d1@[66.52.165.197]>
Message-ID: <0FEDC022-5745-11D8-B3C0-000A9567A3E6@swcp.com>


On Wednesday, February 4, 2004, at 10:51 AM, Rob Cozens wrote:

>> My initial thought is to put these into the same stackfile as the 
>> library stack, that is, as substacks to the library.
>
> That's what I do with Serendipity Library.

Gotcha!  And this should work well with your use of outside stackfiles 
in deliverables.

I'm beginning to think I might emphasize the same approach.

However there will be cases in which I (or others) will need to use 
these libraries in building a monolithic standalone application and I 
need to ponder the implications.

Dar Scott



From yoy at comcast.net  Wed Feb  4 14:09:44 2004
From: yoy at comcast.net (Andy Burns)
Date: Wed, 4 Feb 2004 14:09:44 -0500
Subject: Rev Review
References: <BC467DF6.3CA3F%ambassador@fourthworld.com>
Message-ID: <001701c3eb52$77382640$e8e02044@fatal>

Do you think it's bad marketing to charge so much for such a great product.
I'm no bean counter, but if you priced Revolution in the $99.99 price range,
wouldn't they sell a whole lot more copies and make more money in the
process?

But what do I know. I just remember HyperCard at ... $65(?) back at MacWorld
Boston '87.

Haven't booted up the Mac in a year. OS/X and the boxes it runs on are real
headaches in bugs and 3rd party compatibility issues, imho. Linux and Unix
are obviously far more mature. Don't drop support for them.

My mantra: If I could compute better on a piano, I'd use a piano!

Andy
RevOnWin2k


----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Richard Gaskin" <ambassador at fourthworld.com>
To: "How to use Revolution" <use-revolution at lists.runrev.com>
Sent: Wednesday, February 04, 2004 1:46 PM
Subject: Re: Rev Review


> Roger.E.Eller at sealedair.com wrote:
>
> > I am one of those who BEGS for the SGI IRIX version. We also use
Yellowdog
> > Linux on the Mac platform because of it's stability, but cannot deploy
our
> > Rev apps on these machines because the engines haven't been provided
since
> > version 1.1.1. I feel that RunRev have all but abandoned the Unix
> > community
> > that gave birth to the great MetaCard engine. Instead of focusing on OS
X
> > specific metallic and pulsing doodads, they should be providing the
> > supported
> > 12 platforms that their marketing team used to convince me to buy
> > Revolution
> > in the first place. I have to say that I am disappointed.
>
> Hopefully that is merely a temporary side effect of transitioning the
build
> process from Scott to Tuviah.  Scott had a system for making builds for
all
> 12 supprted platforms quckly, and I suspect that once Tuv's toolkit is
> configured more like Scott's that will become as easy again.
>
> -- 
>  Richard Gaskin
>  Fourth World Media Corporation
>  Developer of WebMerge: Publish any database on any Web site
>  ___________________________________________________________
>  Ambassador at FourthWorld.com       http://www.FourthWorld.com
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution


From dsc at swcp.com  Wed Feb  4 14:22:48 2004
From: dsc at swcp.com (Dar Scott)
Date: Wed, 4 Feb 2004 12:22:48 -0700
Subject: Rev Review
In-Reply-To: <D51BD671-56F1-11D8-AABA-000A95729266@dvkconsult.com.au>
Message-ID: <84601787-5747-11D8-B3C0-000A9567A3E6@swcp.com>


On Wednesday, February 4, 2004, at 02:09 AM, David Vaughan wrote:

> Andy Ihnatko's review is generally positive in a post-Hypercard way 
> although I personally disagree with his closing comment: "Just don't 
> imagine that you'll be able to build the ambitious programs you can 
> turn out in RealBasic and Xcode".

There is something strange about the use of "ambitious" in this 
statement.

Dar Scott


From b.xavier at internet.lu  Wed Feb  4 14:52:10 2004
From: b.xavier at internet.lu (MisterX)
Date: Wed, 4 Feb 2004 20:52:10 +0100
Subject: Rev Review
In-Reply-To: <84601787-5747-11D8-B3C0-000A9567A3E6@swcp.com>
Message-ID: <ENEALNOCJBOOOHHCCEKNKEHAFMAA.b.xavier@internet.lu>

maybe he meant neural networks... in which case his other two
references just might be as useless ;)

The cross platform thing is by far the "doesn't get better than
this" factor...

I just did some tcp networking today and it's so easy... ;)
Im starting the distributed XOS I always wanted! ;)

One thing RR doesn't have is threads... 

Can RR beat Flash, C, ASM, FreeHand and BBEdit someday?
Depends on RR and us... I can beat BBEdit anyday ;)

3D graphics would be nice too ;)

But that's a lot of RR changes, or shaky externals to make 
coding futile ;)

 X

> -----Original Message-----
> From: use-revolution-bounces at lists.runrev.com
> [mailto:use-revolution-bounces at lists.runrev.com]On Behalf Of Dar Scott
> Sent: Wednesday, February 04, 2004 20:23
> To: How to use Revolution
> Subject: Re: Rev Review
> 
> 
> 
> On Wednesday, February 4, 2004, at 02:09 AM, David Vaughan wrote:
> 
> > Andy Ihnatko's review is generally positive in a post-Hypercard way 
> > although I personally disagree with his closing comment: "Just don't 
> > imagine that you'll be able to build the ambitious programs you can 
> > turn out in RealBasic and Xcode".
> 
> There is something strange about the use of "ambitious" in this 
> statement.
> 
> Dar Scott
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution

From hershbp at realtorsgroup.us  Wed Feb  4 14:42:51 2004
From: hershbp at realtorsgroup.us (hershrev)
Date: Wed, 4 Feb 2004 14:42:51 -0500
Subject: Get selected line number in list field
Message-ID: <5168AAB6-574A-11D8-9071-0030654C1E62@realtorsgroup.us>

Hello,
How do I get a line number when a certain line is clicked or selected?
Thanks hershrev


From ambassador at fourthworld.com  Wed Feb  4 15:00:16 2004
From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin)
Date: Wed, 04 Feb 2004 12:00:16 -0800
Subject: Get selected line number in list field
In-Reply-To: <5168AAB6-574A-11D8-9071-0030654C1E62@realtorsgroup.us>
Message-ID: <BC468F50.3CA58%ambassador@fourthworld.com>

hershrev wrote:

> How do I get a line number when a certain line is clicked or selected?

The hiltedLine property retuns a comma-delimited list of line numbers.

The hilitedText property returns a return-delimited list of line contents.

-- 
 Richard Gaskin 
 Fourth World Media Corporation
 Developer of WebMerge: Publish any database on any Web site
 ___________________________________________________________
 Ambassador at FourthWorld.com       http://www.FourthWorld.com


From ambassador at fourthworld.com  Wed Feb  4 15:01:10 2004
From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin)
Date: Wed, 04 Feb 2004 12:01:10 -0800
Subject: Rev Review
In-Reply-To: <84601787-5747-11D8-B3C0-000A9567A3E6@swcp.com>
Message-ID: <BC468F86.3CA59%ambassador@fourthworld.com>

Dar Scott wrote:

> On Wednesday, February 4, 2004, at 02:09 AM, David Vaughan wrote:
> 
>> Andy Ihnatko's review is generally positive in a post-Hypercard way
>> although I personally disagree with his closing comment: "Just don't
>> imagine that you'll be able to build the ambitious programs you can
>> turn out in RealBasic and Xcode".
> 
> There is something strange about the use of "ambitious" in this
> statement.

Maybe he's just referring to how needlessly hard it is to write the same
stuff in other languages. :)

-- 
 Richard Gaskin 
 Fourth World Media Corporation
 Developer of WebMerge: Publish any database on any Web site
 ___________________________________________________________
 Ambassador at FourthWorld.com       http://www.FourthWorld.com


From rcozens at pon.net  Wed Feb  4 14:02:19 2004
From: rcozens at pon.net (Rob Cozens)
Date: Wed, 4 Feb 2004 12:02:19 -0700
Subject: Dialogs in library organization
In-Reply-To: <0FEDC022-5745-11D8-B3C0-000A9567A3E6@swcp.com>
References: <0FEDC022-5745-11D8-B3C0-000A9567A3E6@swcp.com>
Message-ID: <a05100302bc46f1ecfd3c@[66.52.165.37]>

>
>However there will be cases in which I (or others) will need to use 
>these libraries in building a monolithic standalone application and 
>I need to ponder the implications.

Dar,

I expect others to do that with Serendipity Library also; so if your 
pondering raises or settles issues, I'd like to know.
-- 

Rob Cozens
CCW, Serendipity Software Company
http://www.oenolog.net/who.htm

"And I, which was two fooles, do so grow three;
Who are a little wise, the best fooles bee."

from "The Triple Foole" by John Donne (1572-1631)

From pixelbird at interisland.net  Wed Feb  4 15:09:23 2004
From: pixelbird at interisland.net (Ken Norris)
Date: Wed, 04 Feb 2004 12:09:23 -0800
Subject: Section 508 compliance
In-Reply-To: <20040204170014.3E25E93021C@mail.runrev.com>
Message-ID: <BC469172.4C3D%pixelbird@interisland.net>

Hi Richard,

> Date: Wed, 04 Feb 2004 08:22:02 -0800
> From: Richard Gaskin <ambassador at fourthworld.com>
> Subject: Section 508 compliance

> For example, ? 1194.31(a) seems vague and rather hard to achieve in
> software:
> 
> Functional performance criteria.
> 
> (a) At least one mode of operation and information retrieval
> that does not require user vision shall be provided, or
> support for assistive technology used by people who are
> blind or visually impaired  shall be provided.
------------
I've read that too. I'm very interested in aids to the disabled, but what if
you write a utility for, say, graphic designers? By the very nature of that
field of interest/business, whatever, I don't see how a blind person could
be expected to thrive there in anything other than some semi-admin-related
position. Even if you had audio feedback to tell a user what color the pixel
under the mouse is, what value could it have for a blind person doesn't know
what a color is? Therefore, that would make such a rule pretty much
nonsequiter in such a case, don't you think?

Having said that, I have developed a number of visual-cue and audio feedback
techniques for individual projects. However, the audio stuff is not reliable
on Windows machines like it is on Macs without serious investment in
external TTS engines. IOW, it depends on which sound card is installed,
etc., plus the investment of time-in-grade to try to get the software to
work with Rev, etc.

I've all but abandoned efforts to to deal with TTS in Windows under Rev,
i.e., it's just too unreliable or too expensive, whereas my Macs have been
talking to me for at least 7 years right from the OS, with no problems worth
mentioning. I had one working perfectly in HyperCard on a Mac IIci, circa
1989 (I think).

One of my projects will have at least 1200 words and phrases, plus can be
edited by the user with a unique non-keyboard character generator, intended
for those with poor vision *and* poor motor control *and* lost speech, i.e.,
works with a directional controller and a button. Now, I could pay a
professional to record all that stuff, but it would throw the project out of
the shareware market it's intended for.

Just my .02...

Ken N.


From chipp at chipp.com  Wed Feb  4 15:25:12 2004
From: chipp at chipp.com (Chipp Walters)
Date: Wed, 4 Feb 2004 14:25:12 -0600
Subject: Library stack organization and standalones
In-Reply-To: <D10AEFD0-56F0-11D8-8947-000A9567A3E6@swcp.com>
Message-ID: <ACEELABEAIANJNCEJFMAEEDOIMAA.chipp@chipp.com>

Dar,

It seems to me (and forgive me if I'm oversimplifying), you just load
library stacks like any other. And then start using them. They fit in the
bottom of the message path per Richard's drawing. In my case, I doubt I
would ever want to 'start using' a substack (outside the Main stack
substacks, which I do on occasion). I can't think of a reason why. This is
because, in my scheme, library stacks are code running in a stack script,
and substacks of the library are intended to only support the library itself
(like alerts or logging).

I did read your email carefully, and I don't think I understand your
question. Perhaps a real world example might help - or I'm just missing
something.

-Chipp




From jeff.morrison at radioshack.com  Wed Feb  4 15:36:03 2004
From: jeff.morrison at radioshack.com (Jeff Morrison)
Date: Wed, 04 Feb 2004 14:36:03 -0600
Subject: Printing Question
Message-ID: <BC46B3D3.726%jeff.morrison@radioshack.com>


I'm a REALbasic user considering switching to revolution.  Is printing as
difficult in revolution as it is in REALbasic?  Can someone give me more
info.

Jeff




From Roger.E.Eller at sealedair.com  Wed Feb  4 15:33:03 2004
From: Roger.E.Eller at sealedair.com (Roger.E.Eller at sealedair.com)
Date: Wed, 4 Feb 2004 15:33:03 -0500
Subject: Printing Question
Message-ID: <OF9C838780.299C6064-ON85256E30.0070A7CD@sealedair.com>

> I'm a REALbasic user considering switching to revolution.  Is printing 
as
> difficult in revolution as it is in REALbasic?  Can someone give me more
> info.
> 
> Jeff

I don't know REALbasic or the associated problems with printing, but how
does this code smippet sound to you?

---------------
print this card
---------------

Roger Eller <roger.e.eller at sealedair.com


From jeff.morrison at radioshack.com  Wed Feb  4 15:43:36 2004
From: jeff.morrison at radioshack.com (Jeff Morrison)
Date: Wed, 04 Feb 2004 14:43:36 -0600
Subject: Printing Question
In-Reply-To: <OF9C838780.299C6064-ON85256E30.0070A7CD@sealedair.com>
Message-ID: <BC46B598.72B%jeff.morrison@radioshack.com>

Sounds really good.
So basically, to print a report I would make a card that looks like the
report I want printed and it prints WYSIWYG?
-- 




> From: Roger.E.Eller at sealedair.com
> Reply-To: How to use Revolution <use-revolution at lists.runrev.com>
> Date: Wed, 4 Feb 2004 15:33:03 -0500
> To: How to use Revolution <use-revolution at lists.runrev.com>
> Subject: Re: Printing Question
> 
>> I'm a REALbasic user considering switching to revolution.  Is printing
> as
>> difficult in revolution as it is in REALbasic?  Can someone give me more
>> info.
>> 
>> Jeff
> 
> I don't know REALbasic or the associated problems with printing, but how
> does this code smippet sound to you?
> 
> ---------------
> print this card
> ---------------
> 
> Roger Eller <roger.e.eller at sealedair.com
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
> 


From chipp at chipp.com  Wed Feb  4 15:45:19 2004
From: chipp at chipp.com (Chipp Walters)
Date: Wed, 4 Feb 2004 14:45:19 -0600
Subject: Dialogs in library organization
In-Reply-To: <0FEDC022-5745-11D8-B3C0-000A9567A3E6@swcp.com>
Message-ID: <ACEELABEAIANJNCEJFMAMEDPIMAA.chipp@chipp.com>

Dar,

I agree, it's OK to put dialogs as substacks of libraries...I do it all the
time. If you're concerned about dialog 'look and feel', then create a
separate dialog library with it's own setting. Just make sure you inform
your users that your librarie(s) are dependant upon a separate GUI dialog
library stack.

Now, users can edit the look and feel of the single GUI dialog library stack
and it will be reflected in all of your library stacks.

best,

Chipp



From Roger.E.Eller at sealedair.com  Wed Feb  4 15:46:31 2004
From: Roger.E.Eller at sealedair.com (Roger.E.Eller at sealedair.com)
Date: Wed, 4 Feb 2004 15:46:31 -0500
Subject: Printing Question
Message-ID: <OF01FA284D.C3CBE2BB-ON85256E30.0071A4FC@sealedair.com>

>> From: Roger.E.Eller at sealedair.com
>> Reply-To: How to use Revolution <use-revolution at lists.runrev.com>
>> Date: Wed, 4 Feb 2004 15:33:03 -0500
>> To: How to use Revolution <use-revolution at lists.runrev.com>
>> Subject: Re: Printing Question
>>
>>> I'm a REALbasic user considering switching to revolution.  Is printing
>> as
>>> difficult in revolution as it is in REALbasic?  Can someone give me 
more
>>> info.
>>>
>>> Jeff
>>
>> I don't know REALbasic or the associated problems with printing, but 
how
>> does this code smippet sound to you?
>>
>> ---------------
>> print this card
>> ---------------
>>
>> Roger Eller <roger.e.eller at sealedair.com

> Sounds really good.
> So basically, to print a report I would make a card that looks like the
> report I want printed and it prints WYSIWYG?
> --

Jeff,

That's pretty much it. There are other controls and switches for fitting 
the card into a given rectangle size or position and for controlling 
fonts, etc.. There is also a new Report Builder stack that I have not yet 
tried out. Maybe someone else could comment on that.

Roger Eller <roger.e.eller at sealedair.com


From alex at mindlube.com  Wed Feb  4 15:57:26 2004
From: alex at mindlube.com (Alex Rice)
Date: Wed, 4 Feb 2004 13:57:26 -0700
Subject: Printing Question
In-Reply-To: <BC46B598.72B%jeff.morrison@radioshack.com>
References: <BC46B598.72B%jeff.morrison@radioshack.com>
Message-ID: <BC9B6104-5754-11D8-AEEC-000393C4760A@mindlube.com>


On Feb 4, 2004, at 1:43 PM, Jeff Morrison wrote:

> Sounds really good.
> So basically, to print a report I would make a card that looks like the
> report I want printed and it prints WYSIWYG?

Right! If I recall, in Realbasic, one has to call functions to draw 
strings, images and graphics to the printer, object by object, line by 
line.

In Runrev you just print the desired card or even an entire stack 
(multiple cards). Or you can print a single text field, with header 
footer and pagination. Rev has commands for running the OS printer 
selection dialog, page setup dialog, and scaling the print output.

When I switched from realbasic to runrev, there was a project that 
required printing screens of the entire app.

In realbasic it just wasn't possible- or I couldn't figure it out.

In runrev all the work is done with "print this stack", and everything 
I wrote is for getting the printer selection, running page setup, 
selecting particular cards and scaling to cards to fit onto the 
selected paper size.

There are a few of gotchas with printing: Mac OS X "appearance manager" 
controls, and Win32 screen vs. printer fonts. But in general printing 
with Runrev works real good.

Hope this helps,

--
Alex Rice | Mindlube Software | http://mindlube.com


From gizmotron at earthlink.net  Wed Feb  4 16:04:51 2004
From: gizmotron at earthlink.net (Mark Brownell)
Date: Wed, 4 Feb 2004 13:04:51 -0800
Subject: Printing Question
In-Reply-To: <OF01FA284D.C3CBE2BB-ON85256E30.0071A4FC@sealedair.com>
Message-ID: <C6254B5D-5755-11D8-B96B-000A95859272@earthlink.net>


On Wednesday, Roger.E.Eller at sealedair.com wrote:

> I'm a REALbasic user considering switching to revolution.  Is printing 
> as
> difficult in revolution as it is in REALbasic?  Can someone give me 
> more
> info.
>
> Jeff


Here is what I use for Page Setup & Print in the File menu:

   case "Page Setup"
     answer printer
     break
   case "Print"
     -- this prints an html version of the field "maintext"
     -- put the HTMLText of field "maintext" into field "myHTMLKeeper"
     put the text of field "myHTMLKeeper" into collectedFields
     revShowPrintDialog false, true
     revPrintText collectedFields
     break


Mark


From rcozens at pon.net  Wed Feb  4 15:11:54 2004
From: rcozens at pon.net (Rob Cozens)
Date: Wed, 4 Feb 2004 13:11:54 -0700
Subject: Dialogs in library organization
Message-ID: <a05100300bc46fed80686@[66.52.165.37]>

>
>However there will be cases in which I (or others) will need to use 
>these libraries in building a monolithic standalone application and 
>I need to ponder the implications.

Dar,

There is one issue of which I am aware and for which I have no a 
satisfactory solution:

	sharing library handlers that manipulate declared local variables.

Ideally, one could place a library stack on a network and have its 
resources available to every Revolution standalone running on the 
network.  This will not work for SDB client standalones, because SDB 
handlers in the library stack expect the values in the library's 
declared local variables to persist between calls.

To this point I've just shrugged it off with "OK, each SDB client 
standalone will have to have its own library stack."  However a 
solution to this issue would be really slick: imagine updating the 
operation of every Revolution standalone on every workstation on the 
network by changing a single handler & resource library stack on one 
workstation!

Rob Cozens
CCW, Serendipity Software Company
http://www.oenolog.net/who.htm

"And I, which was two fooles, do so grow three;
Who are a little wise, the best fooles bee."

from "The Triple Foole" by John Donne (1572-1631)

From rcozens at pon.net  Wed Feb  4 15:26:42 2004
From: rcozens at pon.net (Rob Cozens)
Date: Wed, 4 Feb 2004 13:26:42 -0700
Subject: Printing Question
In-Reply-To: <BC46B598.72B%jeff.morrison@radioshack.com>
References: <BC46B598.72B%jeff.morrison@radioshack.com>
Message-ID: <a05100301bc4703b029df@[66.52.165.138]>

>So basically, to print a report I would make a card that looks like the
>report I want printed and it prints WYSIWYG?

Hi Jeff,

There are other printing options as well, including the ability to 
print a specified portion of the card.  Consult the Rev dictionary 
for:

	revPrintField
	revPrintReport
	revPrintText

For printing simple reports, for example, you can use the revPrintText command:

	revPrintText textToPrint[,headerText[,footerText[,fieldTemplate]]]

to print the contents of textToPrint between headerText & footerText 
formatted for the current printer page size in the font style & size 
of fieldTemplate.  Header and/or footer text can contain references 
to the current page number & the current date.
-- 

Rob Cozens
CCW, Serendipity Software Company
http://www.oenolog.net/who.htm

"And I, which was two fooles, do so grow three;
Who are a little wise, the best fooles bee."

from "The Triple Foole" by John Donne (1572-1631)

From jackass at bestweb.net  Wed Feb  4 16:29:55 2004
From: jackass at bestweb.net (michael)
Date: Wed, 04 Feb 2004 16:29:55 -0500
Subject: Application Generators
In-Reply-To: <20040204204603.0B66A93024E@mail.runrev.com>
References: <20040204204603.0B66A93024E@mail.runrev.com>
Message-ID: <40216453.5030506@bestweb.net>

A project I have planned is to develop an application generator, such as 
an eBook Creator, that would compile a new executable, preferrably 
cross-platform.  What I am still hazy on is if I can use revolution to 
do this, both technically and legitimately.

From ambassador at fourthworld.com  Wed Feb  4 16:33:24 2004
From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin)
Date: Wed, 04 Feb 2004 13:33:24 -0800
Subject: Rev Review
In-Reply-To: <CDD4DA21-5737-11D8-A8C6-000A9580FCCE@backtalk.com>
Message-ID: <BC46A523.3CA77%ambassador@fourthworld.com>

Frank Leahy wrote:

[...a lot of excellent stuff snipped here because I've already exceeded my
bandwidth allocation on this list today <g>)]

I like your comments on ways to improve the RunRev Web site and would
encourage you to forward them to Lorin Rivers at <lorin at runrev.com> as I'm
sure that refining Web site is an ongoing interest.

As for RealBASIC, to be honest I don't have much experience with it.  As a
much lower-level tool I'm sure there some things that can be done there,
such as direct OS API calls, that would be harder in Rev.  But since Rev
deploys to 12 platforms, it's relatively rare that folks would want to make
direct API calls and there's an externals mechanism for that.

I've not had occassion to use RB to do any real work.  I looked at it years
ago but it seemed to take more code than C to get much of the same
functionality, and if I'm going to work at a low level I might as well just
stick with C. 

Besides, in five years with the Rev VM I've not needed to write externals; I
spend far more time rewriting older Mac-specific externals in native
Transcript for universal deployment.  Just the same, I've had two magazine
writers mistake my product for having been written in C (which is not far
off the mark, since most of the work is done by the C-based VM).

As for availability of plugins, yes the Rev community is overlooking an
opportunity.  There are a lot of great tools and libraries for Rev, but few
are posted to sites like VersionTracker, Tucows, Download.com, etc.
BlueMango's done a great job with marketing their QT externals (I came
across its VersionTracker listing yesterday), but few others have been
distributed in those channels.  I'm preparing some of my plugins for posting
to those sites, but to be honest between client work and being unnecessarily
verbose here I haven't taken the time, opting to just drop them in RevNet
instead.

-- 
 Richard Gaskin 
 Fourth World Media Corporation
 Developer of WebMerge: Publish any database on any Web site
 ___________________________________________________________
 Ambassador at FourthWorld.com       http://www.FourthWorld.com


From cbrunner at edc.org  Wed Feb  4 16:35:33 2004
From: cbrunner at edc.org (Cornelia Brunner)
Date: Wed, 04 Feb 2004 16:35:33 -0500
Subject: Deleting audio or video clips
Message-ID: <BC46CFD5.8893%cbrunner@edc.org>

I can't for the life of me figure out how to delete an audio clip or a video
clip from a stack once I've imported it. I see it in the application
browser, but there is no obvious way to cut it...


From chipp at chipp.com  Wed Feb  4 16:35:08 2004
From: chipp at chipp.com (Chipp Walters)
Date: Wed, 4 Feb 2004 15:35:08 -0600
Subject: Andy's comments and positioning...
Message-ID: <ACEELABEAIANJNCEJFMAAEEDIMAA.chipp@chipp.com>

I like to think of RR as a *real development tool*, not as a HyperCard clone
or newbie play toy. Unfortunately, I believe Andy thinks of it more as a
HyperCard clone...primarily because of positioning.

What if RR is positioned as the ubiquitous RAD programming environment for
cross platform development -- surpassing in both speed and performance other
tools such as JAVA, QT, VB, etc.? I think this is a valid positioning
statement. Now to turn around and say "and it's only $99" and your Mom can
use it, certainly doesn't seem to back this up.

Which brings us to the real problem...positioning. RR can be positioned as a
'HyperCard clone' for the inventive user OR as a full-featured development
tool for professionals can use to build commercial and enterprise
applications.

There have been a few comments lately about Rev pricing...

I think Rev's pricing is right on the money. Users can download a free
version which they can try out for 30 days. Of course the HyperCard clone
crowd wants a version for $99 bucks. That is where their expectation is set
(just like Andy). After all, Apple used to 'give it away.'

But, developers whose business depends on RR, are used to paying much more
for professional tools. Just look at other cross-platform development
suites. By comparison, RR is a steal.

One of the biggest challenges for Xtalk companies is their ability to stay
funded and alive. I believe in RR as a professional development tool. And,
as a professional developer, I can make money with it, even if it does cost
hundreds of dollars.

Many of you already know this, but it's an interesting story nonetheless.
Last year, I wrote ButtonGadget in about 3 weeks of spare time. I sold in on
my website using PayPal for $20 a copy. In less than one year, I bought two
plasma screen TV's with the profits. The program was written all in native
Transcript. No DLL's nor externals. As a VB programmer, I can tell you there
is NO WAY I could have developed such a product so rapidly, in fact, I
wouldn't have developed ButtonGadget in either VB or C++ as IMO the return
of time vs revenue would've been too risky.

The reason I mention this is to demonstrate the incredible revenue potential
for products developed with this product. I also could mention we're
currently using RR to build a very large Enterprise Application for Homeland
Security. It scales as well - from ButtonGadget to Enterprise Content
Management Systems connected to huge databases. $99 bucks just doesn't cash
in on it's value to me. And I really want to see Revolution do well, so I
continue to be able to write these cool programs!

-Chipp




From ambassador at fourthworld.com  Wed Feb  4 16:40:41 2004
From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin)
Date: Wed, 04 Feb 2004 13:40:41 -0800
Subject: Application Generators
In-Reply-To: <40216453.5030506@bestweb.net>
Message-ID: <BC46A6D9.3CA7B%ambassador@fourthworld.com>

michael wrote:

> A project I have planned is to develop an application generator, such as
> an eBook Creator, that would compile a new executable, preferrably
> cross-platform.  What I am still hazy on is if I can use revolution to
> do this, both technically and legitimately.

I don't think the license prevents any on-competing use (youmay want to
double-check it to be sure), but technically it's probably harder than
you'll enjoy and will add the size of the VM to each book.

Have you connsidered just making an ebook reader application like Sophie
(also made with Rev), Adobe Reader, Microsoft Reader, Rocket, etc.?

--
 Richard Gaskin 
 Fourth World Media Corporation
 ____________________________________________________________________
 Ambassador at FourthWorld.com                http://www.FourthWorld.com


From scott at tactilemedia.com  Wed Feb  4 17:08:19 2004
From: scott at tactilemedia.com (Scott Rossi)
Date: Wed, 04 Feb 2004 14:08:19 -0800
Subject: wait with messages...
In-Reply-To: <21943DEB-53C3-11D8-A63C-000A95F078B6@chipp.com>
Message-ID: <BC46AD53.99AD%scott@tactilemedia.com>

Recently, "Chipp Walters" <chipp at chipp.com> wrote:

> Can you provide an example where you would use one and not the other or
> not 'send'?

Chipp -- I didn't see too many other responses here so I'll chime in...

One thing I recently started using "wait with messages" for is queuing a set
of sounds for playback.  I was a staunch advocate for using "send in" to
monitor the status of media using all sorts of custom timers and what-not.
But then it occurred to me that "wait with messages" should achieve the same
result, and it seems to work great.  As a simple example:

 on playQueue pList
   repeat with N = 1 to number of items of pList
    play audioClip N
    wait until the sound is done with messages
    wait 500 milliseconds with messages
   end repeat
 end playQueue

The above handler will play a list of audioClips sent to it with a 1/2
second delay between each clip.  Now playing audio by itself is not very
overwhelming until you realize that the above repeat loop will run virtually
asynchronously while other scripts are running: mouse tracking, button
clicks, hiding/showing images, pretty much anything.  Another way to use
"wait with messages" is card or stack initialization for any set of events
that take time to process (such as setting fileNames of players and starting
playback).

I've only just started getting into this technique but so far it involves
less scripting and maintenance than "send in" and it virtually eliminates
stray message loops winding up in the pendingMessages.  My impression is
that "wait with messages" is pretty much the same as "send in" but without
control or access to the messages being sent by the engine.  I'd like to see
Scott Raney chime on this from a technical level to know what the real
differences are, if any.

Anyway, while some folks on the list may be put off by the lack of real
"external" message threading, the "internal" threading within Rev is pretty
phenomenal once you start to play around with it.

Regards,

Scott Rossi
Creative Director
Tactile Media, Development & Design
-----
E: scott at tactilemedia.com
W: http://www.tactilemedia.com


From Mark.Powell at veritas.com  Wed Feb  4 17:10:24 2004
From: Mark.Powell at veritas.com (Mark Powell)
Date: Wed, 4 Feb 2004 14:10:24 -0800 
Subject: Andy's comments and positioning...
Message-ID: <C3CC003A39C7D411910F0008C786A64508EED63A@mtvxch12.veritas.com>

Being a veteran of HyperCard wars at Apple, I could not agree more with
Chipp's assessment.  It is perception and (in part) simple name recognition.

Case in point, I go into my management and say "I need x dollars budget to
develop this utility".  "What are you developing in?" they ask.  If I say
C++ or VB, they stroke their metaphorical chins and with gravitas,
acknowledge regretfully the necessity of such an outlay.  If I say
"Revolution", they look they're being lobbied by Dennis Kucinich.  Don't let
the door hit you in the butt.  It is a comfort factor.

I think the positioning angle (I am very sorry to say), demands that Rev
strive to be more agnostic as far as Mac vs. Wintel is concerned.  The few
people I have spoken to who have ever heard of Revolution think of it as a
Macintosh-only thing.  That turns off a heckuva lot of potential users
before they even have a chance to learn any better.

Other things that developers can adopt are what I call placebo features,
whose presence is solely to soothe a user into feeling that their app has
been developed in a "professional" SDE.  One example is the cursor set (that
I believe Chipp distributes) that turns the telltale hand cursor into the
more familiar OS like cursor.  It is without reason from a purist's point of
view, but so if wearing a business suit to board meeting.  Perception.

All in all my advice is don't get angry at people who simply can't see the
forest for the trees.  As my dad used to say to me:  "Don't tell me.  Show
me."  Revolution needs compelling apps whose appearance and functionality
don't telegraph how they were developed.

Mark Powell

From rcozens at pon.net  Wed Feb  4 16:16:25 2004
From: rcozens at pon.net (Rob Cozens)
Date: Wed, 4 Feb 2004 14:16:25 -0700
Subject: Dialogs in library organization
In-Reply-To: <a05100300bc46fed80686@[66.52.165.37]>
References: <a05100300bc46fed80686@[66.52.165.37]>
Message-ID: <a05100304bc470cf65789@[66.52.165.138]>

>There is one issue of which I am aware and for which I have no a 
>satisfactory solution:
>
>	sharing library handlers that manipulate declared local variables.
>
>[snip]
>To this point I've just shrugged it off

Thank you, Dar, for causing me to give the issue more thought.

I now conclude it is NOT an issue to the extent I feared, and I hope 
someone will confirm my fears are unfounded.  Here's my reasoning:

When SDB Client A standalone starts using Serendipity Library, a copy 
of the Library stack is loaded in RAM assigned to Client A standalone.

When SDB Client B standalone starts using Serendipity Library, a copy 
of the Library stack is loaded in RAM assigned to Client B standalone.

So when Client A changes the value of a declared local variable, it 
does NOT affect the value of the same variable from the perspective 
of the other standalone.

Note this still creates an issue if multiple client stacks are 
managed by a single standalone; but it seems, in theory, that a 
single copy of Serendipity Library CAN provide resources to ALL 
Revolution standalones that don't open more than one SDB client stack 
at a time, whether on the same computer or anywhere on a LAN.

I must say, the prospect of being able to update the operation of 
every Revolution standalone on every workstation on the network by 
changing a single handler & resource library stack on one workstation 
excites me.

...but perhaps my goals are not as "ambitious" as Andy Ihnatko's.     :{`)
-- 

Rob Cozens
CCW, Serendipity Software Company
http://www.oenolog.net/who.htm

"And I, which was two fooles, do so grow three;
Who are a little wise, the best fooles bee."

from "The Triple Foole" by John Donne (1572-1631)

From 3mcgrath at adelphia.net  Wed Feb  4 17:45:35 2004
From: 3mcgrath at adelphia.net (Thomas McGrath III)
Date: Wed, 4 Feb 2004 17:45:35 -0500
Subject: Section 508 compliance
In-Reply-To: <BC465C2A.3C9FA%ambassador@fourthworld.com>
References: <BC465C2A.3C9FA%ambassador@fourthworld.com>
Message-ID: <D86A84FC-5763-11D8-B69B-000A95DA60FA@adelphia.net>

Richard,

On the Macintosh this usually refers to the software being able to be 
accessed via a program like MouseKeys (now included with all macs) and 
on Windows this can refer to a program like serial keys.
These softwares can control the mouse on a computer via an external 
'assistive technology' device. The device sends 'serial' commands to 
the computer and the software interprets them and performs the function 
in your software. Nowadays,  this is all pretty well straight forward 
and included in most OSes.

There is an OR in that statement that provides for this minimal 
support. IF the user has an assistive technology device THEN they can 
make use of the OSs builtin ability to access a software. There are a 
very limited number of devices for blind people or visually impaired 
individuals.
There is a raised pin monitor in the works that translates 256 
grayscale into a raised or lowered pin and the blind person can feel 
what is on the screen.
Modern braille systems interpret text fields and allow for reading from 
those fields also for data entry in those fields.

The two most common programmer additions to a project are:
1. A button to enlarge text in fields to allow for visually impaired 
people to see the text better. I use a toggle button to allow for both 
normal size text (12-14 points) and then a very large size text(48- 72 
points) with scroll bars.
2. Speech synthesis included as an option for severely visually 
impaired people. I use a preference for this as it can be quite 
annoying due to the poor state of voices available. Then I do a If 
gmySpeechOn then revSpeak etc.

For other special needs I use:
Full keyboard control ie tabbed controls and enter key for execution.
I provide multiple methods of navigation to allow for different 
disabilities.
Big buttons, easy navigation, speech, large text options. This is about 
it.

I find that REV has a great set of controls for this. (Director has a 
pre-made set of controls but REV is just as robust)

Tom
P.S. I work in the disability field with assistive technology devices.


On Feb 4, 2004, at 11:22 AM, Richard Gaskin wrote:

>   (a) At least one mode of operation and information retrieval
>   that does not require user vision shall be provided, or
>   support for assistive technology used by people who are
>   blind or visually impaired  shall be provided.
>
> Do your apps allow keyboard control for all actions in addition to
> responding to the mouse?  Any problems with screen readers and Rev's
> internal text engine?
>

Thomas J. McGrath III
SCS
1000 Killarney Dr.
Pittsburgh, PA 15234
412-885-8541


From ttasovac at princeton.edu  Wed Feb  4 17:48:20 2004
From: ttasovac at princeton.edu (Toma Tasovac)
Date: Wed, 4 Feb 2004 23:48:20 +0100
Subject: placeholders in mySQL queries
In-Reply-To: <F861CC79-54A5-11D8-95F7-000A95C45C8C@princeton.edu>
References: <F861CC79-54A5-11D8-95F7-000A95C45C8C@princeton.edu>
Message-ID: <3ADDC77C-5764-11D8-A36D-000A95C45C8C@princeton.edu>

OK, this was dumb.  My database is UTF8, which is why, it turns out, I 
had to unidecode tFormID to make this work...  I'm just posting it here 
in case somebody encounters the same problem.


On Feb 1, 2004, at 12:01 PM, Toma Tasovac wrote:

> Hello everybody.
>
> Does anybody have any idea why this works:
>
> global tDatabaseID
> global tFormID
>
> on mouseUp
>   put unidecode (char 1 to -1 of fld "pronunciation", "utf8") into 
> updatedPronunciation
>   put "UPDATE entry SET entry.pronunciation =:1 WHERE entry.formID 
> ='4'" into tQuery
>   revExecuteSQL tDatabaseID,tQuery,"updatedPronunciation"
>   put the result
> end mouseUp
>
> BUT why using two placeholders instead of one does not????
>
> global tDatabaseID
> global tFormID
>
> on mouseUp
>   put unidecode (char 1 to -1 of fld "pronunciation", "utf8") into 
> updatedPronunciation
>   put "UPDATE entry SET entry.pronunciation =:1 WHERE entry.formID 
> =:2" into tQuery
>   revExecuteSQL tDatabaseID,tQuery,"updatedPronunciation", "tFormID"
>   put the result
> end mouseUp
>
>
> In the second case, even though "tFormID" evaluates to 4, making it 
> exactly the same as the first example, the result is always 0, and no 
> update is being made.
>
> All best,
> Toma
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution


From doug at webcrossing.com  Wed Feb  4 17:51:03 2004
From: doug at webcrossing.com (Doug Lerner)
Date: Thu, 05 Feb 2004 07:51:03 +0900
Subject: Labels and labeled Fields
In-Reply-To: <a05100300bc46abe98e6d@[66.52.165.140]>
Message-ID: <BC47A667.2568D%doug@webcrossing.com>

On 2/4/04 11:15 PM, "Rob Cozens" <rcozens at pon.net> wrote:

> Presently, I create one label field & one data field, copy them,
> paste the pair as often as needed, and rename the fields.

That's how I do it too. That isn't so bad, but getting everything aligned
nice afterwards is tedious. The worst part of that is the "align group"
feature. There is no undo! :)

doug


From rcozens at pon.net  Wed Feb  4 16:50:26 2004
From: rcozens at pon.net (Rob Cozens)
Date: Wed, 4 Feb 2004 14:50:26 -0700
Subject: Application Generators
In-Reply-To: <40216453.5030506@bestweb.net>
References: <20040204204603.0B66A93024E@mail.runrev.com>
 <40216453.5030506@bestweb.net>
Message-ID: <a05100305bc4712efbebe@[66.52.165.138]>

>A project I have planned is to develop an application generator, 
>such as an eBook Creator, that would compile a new executable, 
>preferrably cross-platform.  What I am still hazy on is if I can use 
>revolution to do this, both technically and legitimately.

Hi Again, Michael.

I think we need to blow some haze away to be sure we're on the same wavelength.

My supposition:

You create eAuthor, a standalone that produces eBooks that can be 
read by eAuthor and possibly other apps.  The eBooks produced by 
eAuthor are, in my layman's opinion, documents, not applications; nor 
does eAuthor violate the Rev license.  (Remember, if I'm wrong, it's 
you who gets sued.)

As opposed to:

I create appBuilder, a standalone that produces compiled applications 
on all platforms that support Revolution without the developer having 
to buy a Revolution license.  This is an AppGen application, and if I 
were to market it without Revolution, I would cut a deal with RunRev 
Ltd giving them a share of the royalties.

The principal difference in the two scenarios is eAuthor is an end 
user's tool sold to people who make eBooks, whereas appBuilder is a 
developer's tool sold to people who make eAuthor and other end user 
tools.

As to feasibility, you may have issues, and I would suggest you get a 
definitive answer from someone at RR Ltd before proceeding too far. 
Then again, you may not:  If your application basically creates a 
document where an author can place text, tables, & pictures, perhaps 
checks spelling, supports text-to-speech, footnotes, automatic 
indexing, hyperText, etc. you should be home free: you can create 
stacks, cards, and controls from a standalone--it's just script 
changes that are restricted.
-- 

Rob Cozens
CCW, Serendipity Software Company
http://www.oenolog.net/who.htm

"And I, which was two fooles, do so grow three;
Who are a little wise, the best fooles bee."

from "The Triple Foole" by John Donne (1572-1631)

From ttasovac at princeton.edu  Wed Feb  4 17:57:28 2004
From: ttasovac at princeton.edu (Toma Tasovac)
Date: Wed, 4 Feb 2004 23:57:28 +0100
Subject: optional fields in database frontend
Message-ID: <81ABDBA2-5765-11D8-A36D-000A95C45C8C@princeton.edu>

This is an "architectural" question -- I am designing a mySQL front end 
for a dictionary project.  The DB is highly structured and I am using 
it as a TEI XML depository.

Each headword can have one or more homographs, and each homograph can 
have one or more meanings.  So, let's say I have three tables: entry, 
hom, sense (it's more complicated than that, but this is just an 
example).  Each record in entry is associated with one or more records 
in hom, and each record in hom with one or more records in sense.

What would be a sensible and elegant design approach to this in 
creating a frontend app in Revolution?  How would one organize the 
space, allow the possibility for the user to add a second homograph or 
a second sense ONLY WHEN NEEDED, and keep adding them AS LONG AS THEY 
ARE NECESSARY?  (it's really up to two or three homographs, but up to 
10+ senses...?)

Any hints, examples, references etc. would be appreciated.

All best,
Toma


From dsc at swcp.com  Wed Feb  4 17:57:47 2004
From: dsc at swcp.com (Dar Scott)
Date: Wed, 4 Feb 2004 15:57:47 -0700
Subject: Dialogs in library organization
In-Reply-To: <a05100302bc46f1ecfd3c@[66.52.165.37]>
Message-ID: <8CB035D2-5765-11D8-B3C0-000A9567A3E6@swcp.com>


On Wednesday, February 4, 2004, at 12:02 PM, Rob Cozens wrote:

> I expect others to do that with Serendipity Library also; so if your 
> pondering raises or settles issues, I'd like to know.

Here is the issue.

It seems that _in general_ the Distribution Builder cannot create a 
single monolithic application.  It can take only one stack file and 
create an application.  However, it can move over the other stack files 
and set some properties appropriately.  Fortunately, on OS X, the 
stacks are put down inside the application bundle, so the result looks 
effectively monolithic.  (I don't understand the rationale for the 
particular folder, but that is a separate issue.)  However, on Windows, 
all stack files other than that of the primary stack file are outside 
the application.

Now, it could be I'm using the DB wrong.

So how does one make a monolithic application on Windows?  The best I 
can tell, in the direct way one has to move all the stacks and their 
substacks over to be substacks of the application stack.  Now, my 
message path has changed.  Typically this does not make a difference as 
name conflicts are unlikely, but I might make mistakes (theoretically).

(I was a little confused about this, since the DB, that is, the 
Distribution Builder, seems to use the word "stack" for "stack file" in 
some places.  In another place it listed the stacks and it included the 
main stacks of listed stack files and the substacks of the main stack 
file, but not the substacks of the stack files not main.)

Now that I think about it, my message path is changed anyway.  I 
remember something about the main stack of the executable main stack 
file being inserted into the message path after the main stack for a 
stack.  Maybe in IDE testing this can be emulated by putting it at the 
front of the libraries or something.

(BTW, I noticed that when building an OS X standalone the DB used the 
OS X I was running as a model instead of one in the engines folder.  
This carries over all the tweaking I've done to the original, such as 
placing externals inside.  I'm not sure whether this is a feature I 
like or not.  It has both advantages and disadvantages.  There is no OS 
X in the engines folder, so maybe if I put one there, it would take 
that one, instead.)

So the issues:
For other than OS X, the result is not monolithic, in general.
If forced to be, the path is not what it was in most debugging and 
testing.
Oh, the application main stack is moved in the message path anyway.

Dar Scott






From 3mcgrath at adelphia.net  Wed Feb  4 18:03:17 2004
From: 3mcgrath at adelphia.net (Thomas McGrath III)
Date: Wed, 4 Feb 2004 18:03:17 -0500
Subject: Andy's comments and positioning...
In-Reply-To: <C3CC003A39C7D411910F0008C786A64508EED63A@mtvxch12.veritas.com>
References: <C3CC003A39C7D411910F0008C786A64508EED63A@mtvxch12.veritas.com>
Message-ID: <51CB81B1-5766-11D8-B69B-000A95DA60FA@adelphia.net>

AMEN


On Feb 4, 2004, at 5:10 PM, Mark Powell wrote:
>
> All in all my advice is don't get angry at people who simply can't see 
> the
> forest for the trees.  As my dad used to say to me:  "Don't tell me.  
> Show
> me."  Revolution needs compelling apps whose appearance and 
> functionality
> don't telegraph how they were developed.
>
> Mark Powell
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>
>

Thomas J. McGrath III
SCS
1000 Killarney Dr.
Pittsburgh, PA 15234
412-885-8541


From rcozens at pon.net  Wed Feb  4 17:10:23 2004
From: rcozens at pon.net (Rob Cozens)
Date: Wed, 4 Feb 2004 15:10:23 -0700
Subject: Dialogs in library organization
In-Reply-To: <a05100304bc470cf65789@[66.52.165.138]>
References: <a05100300bc46fed80686@[66.52.165.37]>
 <a05100304bc470cf65789@[66.52.165.138]>
Message-ID: <a05100306bc471af9a25d@[66.52.165.138]>

>I must say, the prospect of being able to update the operation of 
>every Revolution standalone on every workstation on the network by 
>changing a single handler & resource library stack on one 
>workstation excites me.

Taking this one step farther, couldn't all stacks that don't need to 
maintain runtime changes to data load from a single copy used by 
every workstation?

Imagine setting up a 15 workstation installation:

* Copy a splash screen standalone to 15 workstations.
* Install the database files, server app, and all remaining files on 
a 16th workstation.

Better yet, imagine installing a new update at this client installation:

* Replace one copy of each changed stack or file on the 16th workstation!!!

Andy's right: this makes supporting a large number of users over a 
network a very unambitious goal, don't you think?       :{`)
-- 

Rob Cozens
CCW, Serendipity Software Company
http://www.oenolog.net/who.htm

"And I, which was two fooles, do so grow three;
Who are a little wise, the best fooles bee."

from "The Triple Foole" by John Donne (1572-1631)

From dsc at swcp.com  Wed Feb  4 18:17:34 2004
From: dsc at swcp.com (Dar Scott)
Date: Wed, 4 Feb 2004 16:17:34 -0700
Subject: Dialogs in library organization
In-Reply-To: <a05100306bc471af9a25d@[66.52.165.138]>
Message-ID: <506F3C14-5768-11D8-B3C0-000A9567A3E6@swcp.com>


On Wednesday, February 4, 2004, at 03:10 PM, Rob Cozens wrote:

> Taking this one step farther, couldn't all stacks that don't need to 
> maintain runtime changes to data load from a single copy used by every 
> workstation?

Would saved and otherwise modified stack files be excluded, then?

Dar Scott


From dsc at swcp.com  Wed Feb  4 18:20:16 2004
From: dsc at swcp.com (Dar Scott)
Date: Wed, 4 Feb 2004 16:20:16 -0700
Subject: Dialogs in library organization
In-Reply-To: <8CB035D2-5765-11D8-B3C0-000A9567A3E6@swcp.com>
Message-ID: <B0C630C5-5768-11D8-B3C0-000A9567A3E6@swcp.com>


On Wednesday, February 4, 2004, at 03:57 PM, Dar Scott wrote:

> So the issues:
> For other than OS X, the result is not monolithic, in general.
> If forced to be, the path is not what it was in most debugging and 
> testing.
> Oh, the application main stack is moved in the message path anyway.

I didn't mean to leave this on such a downer.  I think there are ways 
to address this, assuming the assessment is correct.  I think these are 
solvable problems.

Dar Scott


From sarahr at genesearch.com.au  Wed Feb  4 18:39:01 2004
From: sarahr at genesearch.com.au (Sarah Reichelt)
Date: Thu, 5 Feb 2004 09:39:01 +1000
Subject: Deleting audio or video clips
In-Reply-To: <BC46CFD5.8893%cbrunner@edc.org>
References: <BC46CFD5.8893%cbrunner@edc.org>
Message-ID: <4F4E795B-576B-11D8-838B-0003937A97B8@genesearch.com.au>

Select the clip in the application browser, then right-click or 
control-click on it. The popup menu that appears has a Delete item at 
the bottom. Alternatively, you can use the message box and type 
something like:
	delete audioclip "mysound.wav"

Cheers,
Sarah
sarahr at genesearch.com.au
http://www.troz.net/Rev/

On 5 Feb 2004, at 7:35 am, Cornelia Brunner wrote:

> I can't for the life of me figure out how to delete an audio clip or a 
> video
> clip from a stack once I've imported it. I see it in the application
> browser, but there is no obvious way to cut it...
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>
>
>


From dsc at swcp.com  Wed Feb  4 18:44:42 2004
From: dsc at swcp.com (Dar Scott)
Date: Wed, 4 Feb 2004 16:44:42 -0700
Subject: Library stack organization and standalones
In-Reply-To: <ACEELABEAIANJNCEJFMAEEDOIMAA.chipp@chipp.com>
Message-ID: <1AB1B8E7-576C-11D8-B3C0-000A9567A3E6@swcp.com>


On Wednesday, February 4, 2004, at 01:25 PM, Chipp Walters wrote:

> It seems to me (and forgive me if I'm oversimplifying), you just load
> library stacks like any other. And then start using them.

In the schema that you use, this makes sense.

Most of my apps are not fetched online.  Even so, just 'start using' is 
fine when using stacks in external stack files.  This works in almost 
all cases.

However, some applications need to be monolithic.  I can't have 
associated files.

> In my case, I doubt I
> would ever want to 'start using' a substack (outside the Main stack
> substacks, which I do on occasion).

Well, if a system of stack files must be flattened to one, then 
libraries would be stack files.

I don't think I'm making one part clear.  I 'am' using external stack 
files for libraries.  That works.  I'm just not downloading them.  All 
that works.  (No doubt I'm doing something the hard way in referring to 
them, but that would be another issue.)

In addition, I want to make monolithic applications.

Dar Scott


From ambassador at fourthworld.com  Wed Feb  4 18:44:54 2004
From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin)
Date: Wed, 04 Feb 2004 15:44:54 -0800
Subject: Dialogs in library organization
In-Reply-To: <8CB035D2-5765-11D8-B3C0-000A9567A3E6@swcp.com>
Message-ID: <BC46C3F6.3CAA2%ambassador@fourthworld.com>

Dar Scott wrote:

> So how does one make a monolithic application on Windows?

It almost doesn't matter what the structure of your app is on Win -- most
users will never see it directly.

Once they're done with your installer they'll access your app through the
Start menu, and if they ever uninstall it they'll either use an uninstaller
you added to the Start menu (you lose a point at Tucows if you don't) or the
control panel.

The relatively few Win users who poke around in the Program Files directory
on their own will find that most apps from Adobe, Macromedia, and other
major vendors have some sort of Components folder and won't mind seeing
yours if you need one.

-- 
 Richard Gaskin 
 Fourth World Media Corporation
 ___________________________________________________________
 Ambassador at FourthWorld.com       http://www.FourthWorld.com


From ian at azurevision.co.uk  Wed Feb  4 18:47:23 2004
From: ian at azurevision.co.uk (Ian Wood)
Date: Wed, 4 Feb 2004 23:47:23 +0000
Subject: Andy's comments and positioning...
In-Reply-To: <ACEELABEAIANJNCEJFMAAEEDIMAA.chipp@chipp.com>
References: <ACEELABEAIANJNCEJFMAAEEDIMAA.chipp@chipp.com>
Message-ID: <7ACCA166-576C-11D8-859D-0003935A2896@azurevision.co.uk>

On 4 Feb 2004, at 21:35, Chipp Walters wrote:

> Many of you already know this, but it's an interesting story 
> nonetheless.
> Last year, I wrote ButtonGadget in about 3 weeks of spare time. I sold 
> in on
> my website using PayPal for $20 a copy. In less than one year, I 
> bought two
> plasma screen TV's with the profits. The program was written all in 
> native
> Transcript. No DLL's nor externals. As a VB programmer, I can tell you 
> there
> is NO WAY I could have developed such a product so rapidly, in fact, I
> wouldn't have developed ButtonGadget in either VB or C++ as IMO the 
> return
> of time vs revenue would've been too risky.
>
> The reason I mention this is to demonstrate the incredible revenue 
> potential
> for products developed with this product. I also could mention we're
> currently using RR to build a very large Enterprise Application for 
> Homeland
> Security. It scales as well - from ButtonGadget to Enterprise Content
> Management Systems connected to huge databases. $99 bucks just doesn't 
> cash
> in on it's value to me. And I really want to see Revolution do well, 
> so I
> continue to be able to write these cool programs!
>

On a much smaller scale, I wrote QTVR2MOV in a couple of weeks with a 
cover CD copy of Rev 1.1.1.  This is an app with very a limited market 
(panoramic photographers who want video sequences from their QTVR 
panoramas), as with ButtonGadget this sells through PayPal for $25 (was 
$15 but that was a bit too cheap!).  Even so, four months later I have 
a copy of Rev 2.1 purchased solely through its sales, plus some change.

Having looked at supposedly easy alternatives like Applescript Studio & 
Cocoa, Revolution was a revelation!  Hugely cross-platform and so easy 
to use that you get drawn into fiddling just for the sake of finding 
out more about its strengths.

As Chipp says, it scales well.  I am now planning the media management, 
archiving & data-input system for an ecclesiastical photography project 
that will involve over 60,000 photos, panoramas, videos & audio 
samples.  This should automatically generate XML files that will drive 
a QuickTime interface for the web.

Ian

P.S. For a sneak peek at the QT interface go to:
http://www.ianjameswood.co.uk/lsp/
600+ churches in 3-4 years, if funding comes through.


From ambassador at fourthworld.com  Wed Feb  4 18:48:31 2004
From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin)
Date: Wed, 04 Feb 2004 15:48:31 -0800
Subject: Library stack organization and standalones
In-Reply-To: <1AB1B8E7-576C-11D8-B3C0-000A9567A3E6@swcp.com>
Message-ID: <BC46C4CE.3CAA8%ambassador@fourthworld.com>

Dar Scott wrote:

> 
> On Wednesday, February 4, 2004, at 01:25 PM, Chipp Walters wrote:
> 
>> It seems to me (and forgive me if I'm oversimplifying), you just load
>> library stacks like any other. And then start using them.
> 
> In the schema that you use, this makes sense.
> 
> Most of my apps are not fetched online.  Even so, just 'start using' is
> fine when using stacks in external stack files.  This works in almost
> all cases.

The Execution Error dialog (and in MC libURL as well) is a substack added to
your mainstack by the Ditro Builder, initialized with "start using".

What issues are you encountering that make this problematic with your
stacks?

-- 
 Richard Gaskin 
 Fourth World Media Corporation
 ___________________________________________________________
 Ambassador at FourthWorld.com       http://www.FourthWorld.com


From monte at sweattechnologies.com  Wed Feb  4 18:50:44 2004
From: monte at sweattechnologies.com (Monte Goulding)
Date: Thu, 5 Feb 2004 10:20:44 +1030
Subject: Dialogs in library organization
In-Reply-To: <8CB035D2-5765-11D8-B3C0-000A9567A3E6@swcp.com>
Message-ID: <FLEGJBMJADGKMCHIMFOHEEMJDPAA.monte@sweattechnologies.com>


> It seems that _in general_ the Distribution Builder cannot create a
> single monolithic application.  It can take only one stack file and
> create an application.  However, it can move over the other stack files
> and set some properties appropriately.  Fortunately, on OS X, the
> stacks are put down inside the application bundle, so the result looks
> effectively monolithic.  (I don't understand the rationale for the
> particular folder, but that is a separate issue.)  However, on Windows,
> all stack files other than that of the primary stack file are outside
> the application.

This is a correct assesment of the situation. I'm not sure how you could
create a single executable file from multiple stack files and retain your
original message path. Perhaps if a standalone had it's own emulated
directory structure but I doubt that would ever happen. One way might be to
store stackFiles in custom properties, write them out at startup and delete
them at shutdown.
>
> Now, it could be I'm using the DB wrong.

I don't think so...
>
> So how does one make a monolithic application on Windows?  The best I
> can tell, in the direct way one has to move all the stacks and their
> substacks over to be substacks of the application stack.  Now, my
> message path has changed.  Typically this does not make a difference as
> name conflicts are unlikely, but I might make mistakes (theoretically).

On windows applications rarely need to be monolithic single file
executables. This is because the application directory is abstracted fom the
user if the application is installed properly. The user only needs to see an
icon for the application.
>
> (I was a little confused about this, since the DB, that is, the
> Distribution Builder, seems to use the word "stack" for "stack file" in
> some places.  In another place it listed the stacks and it included the
> main stacks of listed stack files and the substacks of the main stack
> file, but not the substacks of the stack files not main.)

There's some confusion over the term mainstack meaning mainstack of a
stackFile and Main Stack meaning the stackFile the engine is merged with to
create the standalone.
>
> Now that I think about it, my message path is changed anyway.  I
> remember something about the main stack of the executable main stack
> file being inserted into the message path after the main stack for a
> stack.  Maybe in IDE testing this can be emulated by putting it at the
> front of the libraries or something.

It's inserted into the same place as the Home stack currently is. Just
before the engine.
>
> (BTW, I noticed that when building an OS X standalone the DB used the
> OS X I was running as a model instead of one in the engines folder.
> This carries over all the tweaking I've done to the original, such as
> placing externals inside.  I'm not sure whether this is a feature I
> like or not.  It has both advantages and disadvantages.  There is no OS
> X in the engines folder, so maybe if I put one there, it would take
> that one, instead.)

Yep... The distribution builder will always use the running engine for that
platform and engines in the engines folder for other platforms.
>
> So the issues:
> For other than OS X, the result is not monolithic, in general.
> If forced to be, the path is not what it was in most debugging and
> testing.

The application bundle format is a great way to contain applications. If all
platforms had such a method it would be good. The method to achieve this
level of abstraction on Windows doesn't help if you can't install the
application for some reason.

> Oh, the application main stack is moved in the message path anyway.

This is one good reason to use a trivial splash screen to attach the engine
to.

Cheers

Monte


From dsc at swcp.com  Wed Feb  4 18:55:31 2004
From: dsc at swcp.com (Dar Scott)
Date: Wed, 4 Feb 2004 16:55:31 -0700
Subject: Dialogs in library organization
In-Reply-To: <BC46C3F6.3CAA2%ambassador@fourthworld.com>
Message-ID: <9DB9F470-576D-11D8-B3C0-000A9567A3E6@swcp.com>


On Wednesday, February 4, 2004, at 04:44 PM, Richard Gaskin wrote:

>> So how does one make a monolithic application on Windows?
>
> It almost doesn't matter what the structure of your app is on Win -- 
> most
> users will never see it directly.

Yes.

OK.  The customer requirement is more perverse than I was thinking.  I 
can either argue my way out if it or charge more for flattening an 
application.

Dar Scott


From dsc at swcp.com  Wed Feb  4 18:59:09 2004
From: dsc at swcp.com (Dar Scott)
Date: Wed, 4 Feb 2004 16:59:09 -0700
Subject: Library stack organization and standalones
In-Reply-To: <BC46C4CE.3CAA8%ambassador@fourthworld.com>
Message-ID: <1FBB7914-576E-11D8-B3C0-000A9567A3E6@swcp.com>


On Wednesday, February 4, 2004, at 04:48 PM, Richard Gaskin wrote:

> The Execution Error dialog (and in MC libURL as well) is a substack 
> added to
> your mainstack by the Ditro Builder, initialized with "start using".
>
> What issues are you encountering that make this problematic with your
> stacks?

Those are no problem.  I don't think I said they were.

If I flatten a collection of stack files into a single stack file, the 
message path is changed.  That means that my testing in the IDE is 
against a different path than what will be in the standalone.

Dar Scoot


From rjb at rz.uni-potsdam.de  Wed Feb  4 18:49:44 2004
From: rjb at rz.uni-potsdam.de (Robert Brenstein)
Date: Thu, 5 Feb 2004 00:49:44 +0100
Subject: Encryption of Saved Stack of Standalone (Linux)
In-Reply-To: <3BBF1986-5733-11D8-B3C0-000A9567A3E6@swcp.com>
References: <3BBF1986-5733-11D8-B3C0-000A9567A3E6@swcp.com>
Message-ID: <a06020402bc473469c62e@[141.89.100.235]>

>On Wednesday, February 4, 2004, at 06:12 AM, Robert Brenstein wrote:
>
>>Unfortunately, setting password protection for a stack is currently 
>>a one-way street: setting passKey at execution time will open the 
>>stack to prying eyes with no option to close it back until 
>>Revolution quits.
>
>Can you do all you need by just setting the password as Dave suggested?
>
>Dar
>

I am not the original poster of this thread :)

But the passwording works for me in general except in one project 
where I really needed it was sort of useless since I needed to unlock 
the stack to modify things at runtime and I couldn't lock it back. So 
the project got shelved for better times.

Robert

From ambassador at fourthworld.com  Wed Feb  4 19:04:05 2004
From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin)
Date: Wed, 04 Feb 2004 16:04:05 -0800
Subject: Library stack organization and standalones
In-Reply-To: <1FBB7914-576E-11D8-B3C0-000A9567A3E6@swcp.com>
Message-ID: <BC46C875.3CAB3%ambassador@fourthworld.com>

Dar Scott wrote:

> If I flatten a collection of stack files into a single stack file, the
> message path is changed.  That means that my testing in the IDE is
> against a different path than what will be in the standalone.

True.  I build the same for all platforms, even the IDE, and use this
function to help find stacks and media files:

<http://lists.runrev.com/pipermail/metacard/2002-September/002553.html>

-- 
 Richard Gaskin 
 Fourth World Media Corporation
 ___________________________________________________________
 Ambassador at FourthWorld.com       http://www.FourthWorld.com


From ambassador at fourthworld.com  Wed Feb  4 19:07:27 2004
From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin)
Date: Wed, 04 Feb 2004 16:07:27 -0800
Subject: Dialogs in library organization
In-Reply-To: <9DB9F470-576D-11D8-B3C0-000A9567A3E6@swcp.com>
Message-ID: <BC46C93F.3CAB4%ambassador@fourthworld.com>

Dar Scott wrote:

> On Wednesday, February 4, 2004, at 04:44 PM, Richard Gaskin wrote:
> 
>>> So how does one make a monolithic application on Windows?
>> 
>> It almost doesn't matter what the structure of your app is on Win --
>> most
>> users will never see it directly.
> 
> Yes.
> 
> OK.  The customer requirement is more perverse than I was thinking.  I
> can either argue my way out if it or charge more for flattening an
> application.

It may take no argument:  If they're familiar with Windows they'll
appreciate your installer and seeing it auto-launch from the CD (if
delivering on CD); if they're Mac folk they'll appreciate your insight into
Win user expectations.

-- 
 Richard Gaskin 
 Fourth World Media Corporation
 ___________________________________________________________
 Ambassador at FourthWorld.com       http://www.FourthWorld.com


From cbrunner at edc.org  Wed Feb  4 19:08:52 2004
From: cbrunner at edc.org (Cornelia Brunner)
Date: Wed, 04 Feb 2004 19:08:52 -0500
Subject: I need HELP deleting audio or video clips
Message-ID: <BC46F3C4.88B3%cbrunner@edc.org>

Please, someone help a poor, benighted, little, old lady trying to make
prototypes of educational activities at a small non-profit...

I need to delete some audio and video clips from a stack - I need to take
them out of the resource fork, I assume - but I can't figure out how to use
the deleteResource function. Please, someone who knows, tell me how to do
that.

I am not a programmer. I taught myself HyperTalk many years ago. Revolution
has given me a new lease on life as an instructional designer. BUT I NEED
HELP. Thanks, all you incredibly clever, knowledgeable people out there...

____________________________________
Cornelia Brunner
EDC/Center for Children & Technology




From dsc at swcp.com  Wed Feb  4 19:12:05 2004
From: dsc at swcp.com (Dar Scott)
Date: Wed, 4 Feb 2004 17:12:05 -0700
Subject: Dialogs in library organization
In-Reply-To: <FLEGJBMJADGKMCHIMFOHEEMJDPAA.monte@sweattechnologies.com>
Message-ID: <EE1BED1D-576F-11D8-B3C0-000A9567A3E6@swcp.com>


On Wednesday, February 4, 2004, at 04:50 PM, Monte Goulding wrote:

>> Now that I think about it, my message path is changed anyway.  I
>> remember something about the main stack of the executable main stack
>> file being inserted into the message path after the main stack for a
>> stack.  Maybe in IDE testing this can be emulated by putting it at the
>> front of the libraries or something.
>
> It's inserted into the same place as the Home stack currently is. Just
> before the engine.
...
>> Oh, the application main stack is moved in the message path anyway.
>
> This is one good reason to use a trivial splash screen to attach the 
> engine
> to.

My thinking was moving in this direction.

Maybe (in addition) a design step would be to review the names in the 
stack script of the mainstack of the main stack-file to make sure they 
all have appropriate prefixes and thus are very unlikely to clash with 
other names even in my naming weaknesses.

Even so, some names such as startup, preopenstack etc. cannot be 
changed and those must be designed to work even with the stack script 
inserted into other's paths.  Most can do a target check, though I'm 
not sure whether that will work for startup.  If not, it should be able 
to do another check.  Since I typically pass some of these in handlers 
for them, the target tests might be a good thing.

Dar Scott


From plsntbreez at mac.com  Wed Feb  4 19:16:29 2004
From: plsntbreez at mac.com (Brian Maher)
Date: Wed, 4 Feb 2004 19:16:29 -0500
Subject: Valentina Script Problem
Message-ID: <8B74A8BE-5770-11D8-BD5B-000A95B02D84@mac.com>

Hi Folks,

As a test I have the following script to insert 1,000,000 records into 
a Valentina database.  The script works without error (although I had 
to use revdb_commit since revCommitDatabase returns an error that the 
command is not understood) but when I close the db in rev then open it 
in the Valentina application there are no records in the database.  
Does anyone have any idea what is going on?

Thanks, Brian

global theDB

on mouseUp

   put the ticks into time1

   repeat for 1000000 times
     put the random of 100000 into x
     revExecuteSQL theDB, "INSERT INTO RandomTable (ID, StringData) 
VALUES (" & x & "'String Value " & x & "')"
   end repeat

   revCommitDatabase theDB

   put the ticks into time2

   answer (time2 - time1)

end mouseUp


From hershbp at realtorsgroup.us  Wed Feb  4 19:19:51 2004
From: hershbp at realtorsgroup.us (hershrev)
Date: Wed, 4 Feb 2004 19:19:51 -0500
Subject: global variables
Message-ID: <03D9AA0D-5771-11D8-8180-0030654C1E62@realtorsgroup.us>

Hello, every body .
What i understood from the rev Docs that a global variable put it one 
stack works for the whole application without initializing it.
What is the difference if put out side a handler or inside.
thanks hershrev


From hershbp at realtorsgroup.us  Wed Feb  4 19:22:00 2004
From: hershbp at realtorsgroup.us (hershrev)
Date: Wed, 4 Feb 2004 19:22:00 -0500
Subject: saving stacks
Message-ID: <508CF6B4-5771-11D8-8180-0030654C1E62@realtorsgroup.us>

Hi, I can't figure out why my stacks don't save proper , if it holds a 
few days is very nice . If I build an application forget it every thing 
runs around going crazy.
Thanks hershrev


From cbrunner at edc.org  Wed Feb  4 19:24:26 2004
From: cbrunner at edc.org (Cornelia Brunner)
Date: Wed, 04 Feb 2004 19:24:26 -0500
Subject: Thank You Sarah Reichelt
Message-ID: <BC46F76A.88B9%cbrunner@edc.org>

I appreciate your help.
____________________________________
Cornelia Brunner
EDC/Center for Children & Technology




From sarahr at genesearch.com.au  Wed Feb  4 19:27:28 2004
From: sarahr at genesearch.com.au (Sarah Reichelt)
Date: Thu, 5 Feb 2004 10:27:28 +1000
Subject: global variables
In-Reply-To: <03D9AA0D-5771-11D8-8180-0030654C1E62@realtorsgroup.us>
References: <03D9AA0D-5771-11D8-8180-0030654C1E62@realtorsgroup.us>
Message-ID: <1477D24B-5772-11D8-838B-0003937A97B8@genesearch.com.au>

A global works everywhere, but it has to be declared in each place 
where you need to use it. i.e. you must include the line "global 
gMyGlobalVar" in every script that needs access to the global 
gMyGlobalVar. If you declare it in a handler, only that handler sees 
it, but if you declare it outside the handler, all the handlers in that 
script can see it without needing a separate declaration in each 
handler. Even though globals are accessible everywhere, you must tell 
each script or handler that they are globals before you use them, 
otherwise they will just assume you are creating a local variable of 
the same name.

Cheers,
Sarah
sarahr at genesearch.com.au
http://www.troz.net/Rev/

On 5 Feb 2004, at 10:22 am, hershrev wrote:

> Hello, every body .
> What i understood from the rev Docs that a global variable put it one 
> stack works for the whole application without initializing it.
> What is the difference if put out side a handler or inside.
> thanks hershrev
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>
>
>


From monte at sweattechnologies.com  Wed Feb  4 19:29:08 2004
From: monte at sweattechnologies.com (Monte Goulding)
Date: Thu, 5 Feb 2004 10:59:08 +1030
Subject: Dialogs in library organization
In-Reply-To: <EE1BED1D-576F-11D8-B3C0-000A9567A3E6@swcp.com>
Message-ID: <FLEGJBMJADGKMCHIMFOHIEMLDPAA.monte@sweattechnologies.com>


> Even so, some names such as startup, preopenstack etc. cannot be
> changed and those must be designed to work even with the stack script
> inserted into other's paths.  Most can do a target check, though I'm
> not sure whether that will work for startup.  If not, it should be able
> to do another check.  Since I typically pass some of these in handlers
> for them, the target tests might be a good thing.
>

A good way to go is to only have a startup handler in your splash. It's the
only stack that will get the message so there won't be any conflicts.

Cheers

Monte


From ambassador at fourthworld.com  Wed Feb  4 19:30:45 2004
From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin)
Date: Wed, 04 Feb 2004 16:30:45 -0800
Subject: Dialogs in library organization
In-Reply-To: <EE1BED1D-576F-11D8-B3C0-000A9567A3E6@swcp.com>
Message-ID: <BC46CEB5.3CAC3%ambassador@fourthworld.com>

Dar Scott wrote:

> Even so, some names such as startup, preopenstack etc. cannot be
> changed and those must be designed to work even with the stack script
> inserted into other's paths.  Most can do a target check, though I'm
> not sure whether that will work for startup.

I'm lazy: I put initialization in the script of the first card in the stack
that will be the standalone. That way it never gets called from anything
else, so I don't need a target check.

I tend to do initialization from a preOpenStack handler rather than startup
so it will also work in the IDE (which has already started up by the time I
get to work on my project).

-- 
 Richard Gaskin 
 Fourth World Media Corporation
 ___________________________________________________________
 Ambassador at FourthWorld.com       http://www.FourthWorld.com


From dsc at swcp.com  Wed Feb  4 19:42:15 2004
From: dsc at swcp.com (Dar Scott)
Date: Wed, 4 Feb 2004 17:42:15 -0700
Subject: Dialogs in library organization
In-Reply-To: <FLEGJBMJADGKMCHIMFOHIEMLDPAA.monte@sweattechnologies.com>
Message-ID: <25260112-5774-11D8-B3C0-000A9567A3E6@swcp.com>


On Wednesday, February 4, 2004, at 05:29 PM, Monte Goulding wrote:

>
>> Even so, some names such as startup, preopenstack etc. cannot be
>> changed and those must be designed to work even with the stack script
>> inserted into other's paths.  Most can do a target check, though I'm
>> not sure whether that will work for startup.  If not, it should be 
>> able
>> to do another check.  Since I typically pass some of these in handlers
>> for them, the target tests might be a good thing.
>>
>
> A good way to go is to only have a startup handler in your splash. 
> It's the
> only stack that will get the message so there won't be any conflicts.

This assumes I don't do something goofy and make a startup handler 
meaning something completely different in one of my other stacks.  Of 
course, even if I did, I would be very unlikely to 'pass' it.

OK.  The chance of hitting the startup handler in the splash would be 
very unlikely.  I'm convinced.

Dar Scott



From dsc at swcp.com  Wed Feb  4 19:44:09 2004
From: dsc at swcp.com (Dar Scott)
Date: Wed, 4 Feb 2004 17:44:09 -0700
Subject: Dialogs in library organization
In-Reply-To: <BC46CEB5.3CAC3%ambassador@fourthworld.com>
Message-ID: <68EDC224-5774-11D8-B3C0-000A9567A3E6@swcp.com>


On Wednesday, February 4, 2004, at 05:30 PM, Richard Gaskin wrote:

> I'm lazy: I put initialization in the script of the first card in the 
> stack
> that will be the standalone. That way it never gets called from 
> anything
> else, so I don't need a target check.

Good idea.  I had forgotten that, since startup doesn't work there.

Dar


From hershbp at realtorsgroup.us  Wed Feb  4 19:50:39 2004
From: hershbp at realtorsgroup.us (hershrev)
Date: Wed, 4 Feb 2004 19:50:39 -0500
Subject: global variables
In-Reply-To: <1477D24B-5772-11D8-838B-0003937A97B8@genesearch.com.au>
Message-ID: <51953F2C-5775-11D8-8180-0030654C1E62@realtorsgroup.us>


On Wednesday, February 4, 2004, at 07:27 PM, Sarah Reichelt wrote:

> A global works everywhere, but it has to be declared in each place 
> where you need to use it. i.e. you must include the line "global 
> gMyGlobalVar" in every script that needs access to the global 
> gMyGlobalVar. If you declare it in a handler, only that handler sees 
> it, but if you declare it outside the handler, all the handlers in 
> that script can see it without needing a separate declaration in each 
> handler. Even though globals are accessible everywhere, you must tell 
> each script or handler that they are globals before you use them, 
> otherwise they will just assume you are creating a local variable of 
> the same name.
That means if I declare a "global mygabc =3' out side of a scrip in a 
stack ,when I need it in a button I have to declare it again
"global mygabc" in the button script.
and if I declare it in a handler in a stack ????? Where is the 
difference ??
Thanks
>
> Cheers,
> Sarah
> sarahr at genesearch.com.au
> http://www.troz.net/Rev/
>
> On 5 Feb 2004, at 10:22 am, hershrev wrote:
>
>> Hello, every body .
>> What i understood from the rev Docs that a global variable put it one 
>> stack works for the whole application without initializing it.
>> What is the difference if put out side a handler or inside.
>> thanks hershrev
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> use-revolution mailing list
>> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>>
>>
>>
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>


From hershbp at realtorsgroup.us  Wed Feb  4 19:56:43 2004
From: hershbp at realtorsgroup.us (hershrev)
Date: Wed, 4 Feb 2004 19:56:43 -0500
Subject: global variables
In-Reply-To: <51953F2C-5775-11D8-8180-0030654C1E62@realtorsgroup.us>
Message-ID: <2A7F51C2-5776-11D8-8180-0030654C1E62@realtorsgroup.us>


On Wednesday, February 4, 2004, at 07:50 PM, hershrev wrote:

>
> On Wednesday, February 4, 2004, at 07:27 PM, Sarah Reichelt wrote:
>
>> A global works everywhere, but it has to be declared in each place 
>> where you need to use it. i.e. you must include the line "global 
>> gMyGlobalVar" in every script that needs access to the global 
>> gMyGlobalVar. If you declare it in a handler, only that handler sees 
>> it, but if you declare it outside the handler, all the handlers in 
>> that script can see it without needing a separate declaration in each 
>> handler. Even though globals are accessible everywhere, you must tell 
>> each script or handler that they are globals before you use them, 
>> otherwise they will just assume you are creating a local variable of 
>> the same name.
> That means if I declare a "global mygabc =3' out side of a scrip in a 
> stack ,when I need it in a button I have to declare it again
> "global mygabc" in the button script.
> and if I declare it in a handler in a stack ????? Where is the 
> difference ??
What I understand is that the global works every where and it has to be 
declared either in every handler , then it uses the same global ,or 
once on top of the page outside a handler. Am I  correct ?
> Thanks
>>
>> Cheers,
>> Sarah
>> sarahr at genesearch.com.au
>> http://www.troz.net/Rev/
>>
>> On 5 Feb 2004, at 10:22 am, hershrev wrote:
>>
>>> Hello, every body .
>>> What i understood from the rev Docs that a global variable put it 
>>> one stack works for the whole application without initializing it.
>>> What is the difference if put out side a handler or inside.
>>> thanks hershrev
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> use-revolution mailing list
>>> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> use-revolution mailing list
>> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>>
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>


From brentj84062 at earthlink.net  Wed Feb  4 19:58:25 2004
From: brentj84062 at earthlink.net (Brent Anderson)
Date: Wed, 4 Feb 2004 17:58:25 -0700
Subject: Network and communications questions
Message-ID: <674403B6-5776-11D8-971F-003065A72500@earthlink.net>

Hello.
I am writing a group of programs designed to communicate with each 
other over a network and wanted to know specifics on the best way to 
have one program send and receive over a network connection, how to set 
it up in Revolution, and any other tips and commands that I can't seem 
to find in the documentation. Another question I have is how Revolution 
communicates over a network in the first place (does it use peer to 
peer or does it need a computer to act as a server, or some other form 
of connection?)

Thanks,
Brent Anderson


From dsc at swcp.com  Wed Feb  4 20:07:51 2004
From: dsc at swcp.com (Dar Scott)
Date: Wed, 4 Feb 2004 18:07:51 -0700
Subject: Dialogs in library organization
In-Reply-To: <8CB035D2-5765-11D8-B3C0-000A9567A3E6@swcp.com>
Message-ID: <B8A8EA1A-5777-11D8-B3C0-000A9567A3E6@swcp.com>


On Wednesday, February 4, 2004, at 03:57 PM, Dar Scott wrote:

> So the issues:
> For other than OS X, the result is not monolithic, in general.
> If forced to be, the path is not what it was in most debugging and 
> testing.
> Oh, the application main stack is moved in the message path anyway.

OK, I think I have this pretty much resolved.

1.
For simple, tiny applications from a single stack-file, build 
monolithic.

2.
For most applications allow components to fall as they may, even if 
that means
using many outside library stacks.

3.
In extremely rare cases a complex multi-stack-file application can not 
be build as #2 and must be #1, so do one of these:
3.A  Flatten it into a single stack-file and build as #1.
3.B  Use Krunched In-stack Stack-file & Embedded External Technology 
(KISSFEET) (mine is not ready yet)

4.
In all cases, be aware that the mainStack of the standalone will be 
inserted into the stack just before the engine and handle one of these 
ways:

4.A  Review Design
4.B  Test with what will be the inserted stack by back script or 
something.
4.C  Use a splash screen stack for the app and review it carefully

I think that my need in #3 caused me to have blinders about #2.

Dar Scott




From sarahr at genesearch.com.au  Wed Feb  4 20:08:57 2004
From: sarahr at genesearch.com.au (Sarah Reichelt)
Date: Thu, 5 Feb 2004 11:08:57 +1000
Subject: global variables
In-Reply-To: <51953F2C-5775-11D8-8180-0030654C1E62@realtorsgroup.us>
References: <51953F2C-5775-11D8-8180-0030654C1E62@realtorsgroup.us>
Message-ID: <E0102599-5777-11D8-838B-0003937A97B8@genesearch.com.au>

My attempt at an explanation has obviously failed :-) so I suggest you 
search the Transcript dictionary for "global". From the "See also" 
menu, read the article titled "About containers, variables and sources 
of value".

Basically: if you declare your variable in the stack script, outside 
any handler, then all the handlers in the stack script can use it. If 
you need to use it in another object's script, you need to declare it 
again in that script, either inside or outside the handlers.

Just one more thing: "global mygabc = 3" will not work. You have to 
initialize your global inside a handler using the form "put 3 into 
mygabc".

Cheers,
Sarah

On 5 Feb 2004, at 10:53 am, hershrev wrote:

>
> On Wednesday, February 4, 2004, at 07:27 PM, Sarah Reichelt wrote:
>
>> A global works everywhere, but it has to be declared in each place 
>> where you need to use it. i.e. you must include the line "global 
>> gMyGlobalVar" in every script that needs access to the global 
>> gMyGlobalVar. If you declare it in a handler, only that handler sees 
>> it, but if you declare it outside the handler, all the handlers in 
>> that script can see it without needing a separate declaration in each 
>> handler. Even though globals are accessible everywhere, you must tell 
>> each script or handler that they are globals before you use them, 
>> otherwise they will just assume you are creating a local variable of 
>> the same name.
> That means if I declare a "global mygabc =3' out side of a scrip in a 
> stack ,when I need it in a button I have to declare it again
> "global mygabc" in the button script.
> and if I declare it in a handler in a stack ????? Where is the 
> difference ??
> Thanks


From dsc at swcp.com  Wed Feb  4 20:20:24 2004
From: dsc at swcp.com (Dar Scott)
Date: Wed, 4 Feb 2004 18:20:24 -0700
Subject: Network and communications questions
In-Reply-To: <674403B6-5776-11D8-971F-003065A72500@earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <798F9764-5779-11D8-B3C0-000A9567A3E6@swcp.com>


On Wednesday, February 4, 2004, at 05:58 PM, Brent Anderson wrote:

> I am writing a group of programs designed to communicate with each 
> other over a network and wanted to know specifics on the best way to 
> have one program send and receive over a network connection, how to 
> set it up in Revolution, and any other tips and commands that I can't 
> seem to find in the documentation. Another question I have is how 
> Revolution communicates over a network in the first place (does it use 
> peer to peer or does it need a computer to act as a server, or some 
> other form of connection?)

At the sockets level (low), you do not need to have a server, but you 
might want to design around one, especially if firewalls might be 
involved.  This level is TCP/IP UDP and TCP.  UDP is an "unreliable" 
message protocol.  TCP is a connection oriented "reliable" byte-stream 
protocol.

I have a very simple remote send over UDP library that will work for 
small commands at a low rate.  The command protocol you set up should 
send confirmations.  If sockets is too low level, I can send you that, 
if I can find it.  Most of the source code consists of caveats in the 
comments.

However, at the higher levels you might use an http server and have all 
apps communicate with that.  I know there is some level of SOAP 
available.  I think Andre Garzia has tinkered with an alternate RPC 
protocol over http.

I don't know the status of libIPC; Jan could say better.

Alex Rice has a Rendezvous external should you need it in getting into 
finding services.

If this is a simple network communications requirement, I'd start with 
UDP sockets, datagrams.  Look at Transcript dictionary entries for 
'open socket' 'close socket' 'write to socket' 'accept' 'read from 
socket' and related messages.

Dar Scott




From alex at mindlube.com  Wed Feb  4 20:28:01 2004
From: alex at mindlube.com (Alex Rice)
Date: Wed, 4 Feb 2004 18:28:01 -0700
Subject: Andy's comments and positioning...
In-Reply-To: <C3CC003A39C7D411910F0008C786A64508EED63A@mtvxch12.veritas.com>
References: <C3CC003A39C7D411910F0008C786A64508EED63A@mtvxch12.veritas.com>
Message-ID: <899B6562-577A-11D8-B9D9-000393C4760A@mindlube.com>


On Feb 4, 2004, at 3:10 PM, Mark Powell wrote:

>  If I say "Revolution", they look they're being lobbied by Dennis 
> Kucinich.  Don't let the door hit you in the butt.

LOL it's true. And they scoff "Revolution? Where did we get this John 
Lennon wannabe?"

But with a 30 day eval. license, one can create a demo/mockup/prototype 
of just about any app conceivable. What manager can turn down 
productivity like that, coupled with blazing speed, single file 
executables, and 12 different platforms? It practically sells itself, 
provided the developers are willing to take some risk and dive in and 
learn.

If management still won't buy it and they want to stick with VB6 or 
VC++ forever then they are foot-dragging status-quo-loving coneheads 
and you should go over their head :-)

While writing this I have in mind this article, about a different 
product, but it's about early adopters and getting the edge:

<http://www.lindows.com/lindows_michaelsminutes_archives.php?id=96>

"""
...	I also found it interesting that this CEO came to meet with us 
personally, rather than just dispatching someone from his IT 
department.? "I have found that IT departments often don't like 
change," he said.? "That's why I'm here.? I have had enough with the 
status quo treatment we get from Microsoft, and I want to see first 
hand if it's time for a change.? Our company prides itself on early 
adoption of any innovation which can give us an edge over our 
competition--we're known for that.? I'm starting to hear more and more 
that Linux could very well be such an innovation, so I want to see for 
myself if it is."?
"""

--
Alex Rice | Mindlube Software | http://mindlube.com





From erikhans08 at yahoo.com  Wed Feb  4 20:30:05 2004
From: erikhans08 at yahoo.com (erik hansen)
Date: Wed, 4 Feb 2004 17:30:05 -0800 (PST)
Subject: set the rect of stack "revScriptEditor 2" to 82,44,766,768
In-Reply-To: <ACEELABEAIANJNCEJFMAAEEDIMAA.chipp@chipp.com>
Message-ID: <20040205013005.18060.qmail@web61101.mail.yahoo.com>

set the rect of stack "revScriptEditor 2" \
to 82,44,766,768

try that in HC!

Erik Hansen

=====
erik at erikhansen.org    http://www.erikhansen.org

__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free web site building tool. Try it!
http://webhosting.yahoo.com/ps/sb/

From kee at kagi.com  Wed Feb  4 20:32:08 2004
From: kee at kagi.com (kee nethery)
Date: Wed, 4 Feb 2004 17:32:08 -0800
Subject: ADBC Database Connectivity Question
In-Reply-To: <2D9B0DB8-5738-11D8-9071-0030654C1E62@realtorsgroup.us>
References: <2D9B0DB8-5738-11D8-9071-0030654C1E62@realtorsgroup.us>
Message-ID: <1CAB9518-577B-11D8-978E-000A959B2940@kagi.com>

1. We have a Sybase Database.
2. I installed the Actual ODBC Driver for SQL Server ODBC drivers for 
Mac OS X from www.actualtechnologies.com
3. I ran their Admin app and was able to connect to the database.
4. I used Excel and was able to connect to the database.
5. When I try to connect via Revolution using the Database Query 
Builder, I get "revdberr,invalid database type"
6. When I go to the message box and enter the following:
get revOpenDatabase("ODBC","Paymentsdb",,"<my user name here>","<my 
password here>")
I get "revdberr,invalid database type"
7. I went to the runrev web site and downloaded Database Examples by 
Tuviah Snyder dated 14th May, 2002, and then ran it, the first thing it 
does is ask for connection data. I select ODBC, The host is the 
database name "Paymentsdb", the database is left empty, the user is my 
username and the password is my password. When I press connect I get 
"revdberr,invalid database type"

What am I doing wrong? How do I troubleshoot this? Any assistance would 
be appreciated.

Kee Nethery



From geor9230 at saintmarys.edu  Wed Feb  4 20:36:56 2004
From: geor9230 at saintmarys.edu (geor9230 at saintmarys.edu)
Date: Wed, 04 Feb 2004 20:36:56 -0500
Subject: How do you know the correct filepath for playing an audioClip?(Andrea
 George
Message-ID: <638fc60b57.60b57638fc@saintmarys.edu>

I am still having trouble figuring out why I can't get my audioClip to play.  I have tried various things including changing the filepath to the song.  I know I have everything else set up for the play button correct because I can hear it trying to connect with the song, but nothing is being connected.

I have tried the following line of code in all different styles, but it is still not working.

on mouseUp
play "Macintosh HD/Users/Shared/audioClips/UnchangedMelody.aiff" looping
end mouseUp

I have also tried putting it on the desktop and it was not able to find it there.  I do know the song works because I have played in on the mac on several different occasions.

I have tried the ImyPath method and I was not able to get that to work.  Am I missing code and I am not aware of this?  What am I doing wrong?  Where can I find some examples?


Please help.
Thank you!
        


From hershbp at realtorsgroup.us  Wed Feb  4 20:36:21 2004
From: hershbp at realtorsgroup.us (hershrev)
Date: Wed, 4 Feb 2004 20:36:21 -0500
Subject: global variables
In-Reply-To: <E0102599-5777-11D8-838B-0003937A97B8@genesearch.com.au>
Message-ID: <B3F06F0C-577B-11D8-8180-0030654C1E62@realtorsgroup.us>


On Wednesday, February 4, 2004, at 08:08 PM, Sarah Reichelt wrote:

> My attempt at an explanation has obviously failed :-) so I suggest you 
> search the Transcript dictionary for "global". From the "See also" 
> menu, read the article titled "About containers, variables and sources 
> of value".
>
> Basically: if you declare your variable in the stack script, outside 
> any handler, then all the handlers in the stack script can use it. If 
> you need to use it in another object's script, you need to declare it 
> again in that script, either inside or outside the handlers.
Yes , this is what I wanted to know (or make sure)
And while we are at it , why doesn't this work , meaning the 
gmyEditLine remains empty

global myQuery,mySelectedLine,myDbId,myEditLine
on mouseUp
   put line mySelectedLine of myPkid into myEditLine
   put "SELECT company,last_name FROM contacts WHERE (pk ='"& myEditLine 
&"')" into myQuery
   put revDataFromQuery(,,myDbId,myQuery)into field "find Field"
end mouseUp

And if i do it in the message box:  put line mySelectedLine of myPkid 
into myEditLine, it does work
Thanks to Sarah


>
> Just one more thing: "global mygabc = 3" will not work. You have to 
> initialize your global inside a handler using the form "put 3 into 
> mygabc".
>
> Cheers,
> Sarah
>
> On 5 Feb 2004, at 10:53 am, hershrev wrote:
>
>>
>> On Wednesday, February 4, 2004, at 07:27 PM, Sarah Reichelt wrote:
>>
>>> A global works everywhere, but it has to be declared in each place 
>>> where you need to use it. i.e. you must include the line "global 
>>> gMyGlobalVar" in every script that needs access to the global 
>>> gMyGlobalVar. If you declare it in a handler, only that handler sees 
>>> it, but if you declare it outside the handler, all the handlers in 
>>> that script can see it without needing a separate declaration in 
>>> each handler. Even though globals are accessible everywhere, you 
>>> must tell each script or handler that they are globals before you 
>>> use them, otherwise they will just assume you are creating a local 
>>> variable of the same name.
>> That means if I declare a "global mygabc =3' out side of a scrip in a 
>> stack ,when I need it in a button I have to declare it again
>> "global mygabc" in the button script.
>> and if I declare it in a handler in a stack ????? Where is the 
>> difference ??
>> Thanks
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>


From dsc at swcp.com  Wed Feb  4 20:38:58 2004
From: dsc at swcp.com (Dar Scott)
Date: Wed, 4 Feb 2004 18:38:58 -0700
Subject: Dialogs in library organization
In-Reply-To: <FLEGJBMJADGKMCHIMFOHEEMJDPAA.monte@sweattechnologies.com>
Message-ID: <115B2E82-577C-11D8-B3C0-000A9567A3E6@swcp.com>


On Wednesday, February 4, 2004, at 04:50 PM, Monte Goulding wrote:

> Yep... The distribution builder will always use the running engine for 
> that
> platform and engines in the engines folder for other platforms.

I've decided this is an inconvenience, but one I can work around.

One of the customizations I'd like to do is change something in the app 
bundle so I see version info in the name on the doc.  I think it was 
you who told me how to do it Monte, but I forgot and hadn't gotten back 
to that.  Would that affect its use as the prototype?

I've been mocking up app bundle layout there, so that has to be done 
some other way.

On the other hand, one has to fiddle with the bundle anyway.  If 
libraries are included in a build, they are put in the MacOS 
subdirectory, which Apple has assigned for dynamically loadable stuff.  
I would normally move them, but it may be a pain.

Dar Scott


From hershbp at realtorsgroup.us  Wed Feb  4 20:38:35 2004
From: hershbp at realtorsgroup.us (hershrev)
Date: Wed, 4 Feb 2004 20:38:35 -0500
Subject: ADBC Database Connectivity Question
In-Reply-To: <1CAB9518-577B-11D8-978E-000A959B2940@kagi.com>
Message-ID: <03D43EAC-577C-11D8-8180-0030654C1E62@realtorsgroup.us>

I think you have a typo in your script.
On Wednesday, February 4, 2004, at 08:32 PM, kee nethery wrote:

> 1. We have a Sybase Database.
> 2. I installed the Actual ODBC Driver for SQL Server ODBC drivers for 
> Mac OS X from www.actualtechnologies.com
> 3. I ran their Admin app and was able to connect to the database.
> 4. I used Excel and was able to connect to the database.
> 5. When I try to connect via Revolution using the Database Query 
> Builder, I get "revdberr,invalid database type"
> 6. When I go to the message box and enter the following:
> get revOpenDatabase("ODBC","Paymentsdb",,"<my user name here>","<my 
> password here>")
> I get "revdberr,invalid database type"
> 7. I went to the runrev web site and downloaded Database Examples by 
> Tuviah Snyder dated 14th May, 2002, and then ran it, the first thing 
> it does is ask for connection data. I select ODBC, The host is the 
> database name "Paymentsdb", the database is left empty, the user is my 
> username and the password is my password. When I press connect I get 
> "revdberr,invalid database type"
>
> What am I doing wrong? How do I troubleshoot this? Any assistance 
> would be appreciated.
>
> Kee Nethery
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>


From pgilmartin at ermventures.net  Wed Feb  4 20:39:10 2004
From: pgilmartin at ermventures.net (Patrick Gilmartin)
Date: Wed, 4 Feb 2004 17:39:10 -0800
Subject: ADBC Database Connectivity Question
References: <2D9B0DB8-5738-11D8-9071-0030654C1E62@realtorsgroup.us>
	<1CAB9518-577B-11D8-978E-000A959B2940@kagi.com>
Message-ID: <000801c3eb88$da59be60$0101a8c0@PJG>

One of my friends has implemented Sybase ASE with RunRev.  He is currently
unsubscribed from the mailing list.  I will forward this email to him.  I am
sure that he can be very helpful regarding your use of RunRev with Sybase.

I will also send you an duplicate email off list and provide you his direct
email address.  I know that he will be more than happy to assist you in
addition to the responses that you obtain on list.

Patrick Gilmartin


----- Original Message -----
From: "kee nethery" <kee at kagi.com>
To: "How to use Revolution" <use-revolution at lists.runrev.com>
Sent: Wednesday, February 04, 2004 5:32 PM
Subject: ADBC Database Connectivity Question


> 1. We have a Sybase Database.
> 2. I installed the Actual ODBC Driver for SQL Server ODBC drivers for
> Mac OS X from www.actualtechnologies.com
> 3. I ran their Admin app and was able to connect to the database.
> 4. I used Excel and was able to connect to the database.
> 5. When I try to connect via Revolution using the Database Query
> Builder, I get "revdberr,invalid database type"
> 6. When I go to the message box and enter the following:
> get revOpenDatabase("ODBC","Paymentsdb",,"<my user name here>","<my
> password here>")
> I get "revdberr,invalid database type"
> 7. I went to the runrev web site and downloaded Database Examples by
> Tuviah Snyder dated 14th May, 2002, and then ran it, the first thing it
> does is ask for connection data. I select ODBC, The host is the
> database name "Paymentsdb", the database is left empty, the user is my
> username and the password is my password. When I press connect I get
> "revdberr,invalid database type"
>
> What am I doing wrong? How do I troubleshoot this? Any assistance would
> be appreciated.
>
> Kee Nethery
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>
>


From geor9230 at saintmarys.edu  Wed Feb  4 20:42:29 2004
From: geor9230 at saintmarys.edu (geor9230 at saintmarys.edu)
Date: Wed, 04 Feb 2004 20:42:29 -0500
Subject: How do you know the correct filepath for playing an audioClip?(Andrea
 George)
Message-ID: <6891562dea.62dea68915@saintmarys.edu>

I am still having trouble figuring out why I can't get my audioClip to play.? I have tried various things including changing the filepath to the song.? I know I have everything else set up for the play button correct because I can hear it trying to connect with the song, but nothing is being connected.

I have tried the following line of code in all different styles, but it is still not working.

on mouseUp
play "Macintosh HD/Users/Shared/audioClips/UnchangedMelody.aiff" looping
end mouseUp

I have also tried putting it on the desktop and it was not able to find it there.? I do know the song works because I have played in on the mac on several different occasions.

I have tried the ImyPath method and I was not able to get that to work.? Am I missing code and I am not aware of this?? What am I doing wrong?? Where can I find some examples?

Please help.
Thank you!


From dsc at swcp.com  Wed Feb  4 20:50:15 2004
From: dsc at swcp.com (Dar Scott)
Date: Wed, 4 Feb 2004 18:50:15 -0700
Subject: Library stack organization and standalones
In-Reply-To: <BC46C875.3CAB3%ambassador@fourthworld.com>
Message-ID: <A4B02168-577D-11D8-B3C0-000A9567A3E6@swcp.com>


On Wednesday, February 4, 2004, at 05:04 PM, Richard Gaskin wrote:

> True.  I build the same for all platforms, even the IDE, and use this
> function to help find stacks and media files:
>
> <http://lists.runrev.com/pipermail/metacard/2002-September/002553.html>

Thanks!

I've been doing this the hard way all this time.  I have been assuming 
that the DB _did_ build monolithic applications, so I have been leaving 
my libraries out and then 'start using' in a brute force manner.  Since 
I have been leaving the libraries out (so the app could get them 
itself), I never realized that they would not be in the app anyway.

I think this may be a doc problem.  I thought build a standalone meant 
build a standalone.

Dar Scott



From dsc at swcp.com  Wed Feb  4 20:59:19 2004
From: dsc at swcp.com (Dar Scott)
Date: Wed, 4 Feb 2004 18:59:19 -0700
Subject: Dialogs in library organization
In-Reply-To: <FLEGJBMJADGKMCHIMFOHEEMJDPAA.monte@sweattechnologies.com>
Message-ID: <E8F5E528-577E-11D8-B3C0-000A9567A3E6@swcp.com>


On Wednesday, February 4, 2004, at 04:50 PM, Monte Goulding wrote:

>> It seems that _in general_ the Distribution Builder cannot create a
>> single monolithic application.  It can take only one stack file and
>> create an application.  However, it can move over the other stack 
>> files
>> and set some properties appropriately.  Fortunately, on OS X, the
>> stacks are put down inside the application bundle, so the result looks
>> effectively monolithic.  (I don't understand the rationale for the
>> particular folder, but that is a separate issue.)  However, on 
>> Windows,
>> all stack files other than that of the primary stack file are outside
>> the application.
>
> This is a correct assesment of the situation. I'm not sure how you 
> could
> create a single executable file from multiple stack files and retain 
> your
> original message path. Perhaps if a standalone had it's own emulated
> directory structure but I doubt that would ever happen.

I wasn't sure either, but I got the impression the DB somehow did it.  
There is no indication that it does not.

I pictured that it would contain all the stacks with the mainStack and 
subStacks values intact and there was some special pointer or something 
to the primary mainstack.  Those runrev folks are pretty smart, so I 
figured they figured it out.

Then I got a clue that a standalone was as stackfile...

Dar Scott


From monte at sweattechnologies.com  Wed Feb  4 21:02:17 2004
From: monte at sweattechnologies.com (Monte Goulding)
Date: Thu, 5 Feb 2004 12:32:17 +1030
Subject: Dialogs in library organization
In-Reply-To: <115B2E82-577C-11D8-B3C0-000A9567A3E6@swcp.com>
Message-ID: <FLEGJBMJADGKMCHIMFOHOEMODPAA.monte@sweattechnologies.com>


> > Yep... The distribution builder will always use the running engine for
> > that
> > platform and engines in the engines folder for other platforms.
>
> I've decided this is an inconvenience, but one I can work around.
>
> One of the customizations I'd like to do is change something in the app
> bundle so I see version info in the name on the doc.  I think it was
> you who told me how to do it Monte, but I forgot and hadn't gotten back
> to that.  Would that affect its use as the prototype?

You might want to use an alias for that. Make an alias. Rename it with the
version number. Then drag to the dock.
>
> I've been mocking up app bundle layout there, so that has to be done
> some other way.
>
> On the other hand, one has to fiddle with the bundle anyway.  If
> libraries are included in a build, they are put in the MacOS
> subdirectory, which Apple has assigned for dynamically loadable stuff.

Wouldn't you class stackFiles as dymanically loadable stuff? No matter what
Apple says it's far simpler for Revers to think of the MacOS directory as
the  application directory and put all our files there. Having one directory
structure for OS X and another for all other platforms just doesn't make
sense.

Cheers

Monte


From sarahr at genesearch.com.au  Wed Feb  4 21:03:15 2004
From: sarahr at genesearch.com.au (Sarah Reichelt)
Date: Thu, 5 Feb 2004 12:03:15 +1000
Subject: How do you know the correct filepath for playing an
	audioClip?(Andrea George
In-Reply-To: <638fc60b57.60b57638fc@saintmarys.edu>
References: <638fc60b57.60b57638fc@saintmarys.edu>
Message-ID: <759D4790-577F-11D8-838B-0003937A97B8@genesearch.com.au>

Try this:

on mouseUp
   answer file "Select an audio file:"
   put it  -- so you can see what the exact file name is
   play it looping
end mouseUp

If your problem is a file path one, this will fix it.

Cheers,
Sarah

On 5 Feb 2004, at 11:37 am, geor9230 at saintmarys.edu wrote:

> I am still having trouble figuring out why I can't get my audioClip to 
> play.  I have tried various things including changing the filepath to 
> the song.  I know I have everything else set up for the play button 
> correct because I can hear it trying to connect with the song, but 
> nothing is being connected.
>
> I have tried the following line of code in all different styles, but 
> it is still not working.
>
> on mouseUp
> play "Macintosh HD/Users/Shared/audioClips/UnchangedMelody.aiff" 
> looping
> end mouseUp
>
> I have also tried putting it on the desktop and it was not able to 
> find it there.  I do know the song works because I have played in on 
> the mac on several different occasions.
>
> I have tried the ImyPath method and I was not able to get that to 
> work.  Am I missing code and I am not aware of this?  What am I doing 
> wrong?  Where can I find some examples?
>
>
> Please help.
> Thank you!


From ambassador at fourthworld.com  Wed Feb  4 21:04:59 2004
From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin)
Date: Wed, 04 Feb 2004 18:04:59 -0800
Subject: Library stack organization and standalones
In-Reply-To: <A4B02168-577D-11D8-B3C0-000A9567A3E6@swcp.com>
Message-ID: <BC46E4CB.3CAEC%ambassador@fourthworld.com>

Dar Scott wrote:

> On Wednesday, February 4, 2004, at 05:04 PM, Richard Gaskin wrote:
> 
>> True.  I build the same for all platforms, even the IDE, and use this
>> function to help find stacks and media files:
>> 
>> <http://lists.runrev.com/pipermail/metacard/2002-September/002553.html>
> 
> Thanks!
> 
> I've been doing this the hard way all this time.  I have been assuming
> that the DB _did_ build monolithic applications, so I have been leaving
> my libraries out and then 'start using' in a brute force manner.  Since
> I have been leaving the libraries out (so the app could get them
> itself), I never realized that they would not be in the app anyway.
> 
> I think this may be a doc problem.  I thought build a standalone meant
> build a standalone.

It does, in the sense that the application doesn't need a separate "player"
engine.

The Distribution Builder is a complex beast, with its ability to copy stacks
into your standalone and copy stacks our into separate stack files, all at
build time.  

Us "old schoolers" who started out with MC fell into the habit of building
with the structure we want in the standalone, since the MC builder just
bound the VM to your specified stack file without any of the extras.  One
project, one structure, any environment, including the IDE.

In fact, before a few users explained the utility of the Distro Builder's
more advanced options it had been unclear to me why anyone might structure
their app's files in a manner other than how they want as a standalone.
Thanks to those explanations I understand the intention, but I still prefer
to minimize differences between the development environment and the
standalone; it may be superstition, as those who do otherwise report few
problems, but I have enough debugging to do in my stuff as it is. :)

-- 
 Richard Gaskin 
 Fourth World Media Corporation
 ___________________________________________________________
 Ambassador at FourthWorld.com       http://www.FourthWorld.com


From sarahr at genesearch.com.au  Wed Feb  4 21:08:05 2004
From: sarahr at genesearch.com.au (Sarah Reichelt)
Date: Thu, 5 Feb 2004 12:08:05 +1000
Subject: global variables
In-Reply-To: <B3F06F0C-577B-11D8-8180-0030654C1E62@realtorsgroup.us>
References: <B3F06F0C-577B-11D8-8180-0030654C1E62@realtorsgroup.us>
Message-ID: <225691AD-5780-11D8-838B-0003937A97B8@genesearch.com.au>

On 5 Feb 2004, at 11:39 am, hershrev wrote:

> And while we are at it , why doesn't this work , meaning the 
> gmyEditLine remains empty
>
> global myQuery,mySelectedLine,myDbId,myEditLine
> on mouseUp
>   put line mySelectedLine of myPkid into myEditLine
>   put "SELECT company,last_name FROM contacts WHERE (pk ='"& 
> myEditLine &"')" into myQuery
>   put revDataFromQuery(,,myDbId,myQuery)into field "find Field"
> end mouseUp
>
> And if i do it in the message box:  put line mySelectedLine of myPkid 
> into myEditLine, it does work
>
Is myPkid a global variable also? It looks like this script doesn't 
know that it is, so it can't get any data from it.

Sarah


From ambassador at fourthworld.com  Wed Feb  4 21:15:37 2004
From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin)
Date: Wed, 04 Feb 2004 18:15:37 -0800
Subject: Dialogs in library organization
In-Reply-To: <E8F5E528-577E-11D8-B3C0-000A9567A3E6@swcp.com>
Message-ID: <BC46E749.3CAEF%ambassador@fourthworld.com>

Dar Scott wrote:

> On Wednesday, February 4, 2004, at 04:50 PM, Monte Goulding wrote:
> 
>>> It seems that _in general_ the Distribution Builder cannot create a
>>> single monolithic application.  It can take only one stack file and
>>> create an application.  However, it can move over the other stack
>>> files and set some properties appropriately.  Fortunately, on OS X,
>>> the stacks are put down inside the application bundle, so the result
>>> looks effectively monolithic.  (I don't understand the rationale for
>>> the particular folder, but that is a separate issue.)  However, on
>>> Windows, all stack files other than that of the primary stack file
>>> are outside the application.
>> 
>> This is a correct assesment of the situation. I'm not sure how you
>> could create a single executable file from multiple stack files and
>> retain your original message path. Perhaps if a standalone had it's
>> own emulated directory structure but I doubt that would ever happen.
> 
> I wasn't sure either, but I got the impression the DB somehow did it.
> There is no indication that it does not.
> 
> I pictured that it would contain all the stacks with the mainStack and
> subStacks values intact and there was some special pointer or something
> to the primary mainstack.  Those runrev folks are pretty smart, so I
> figured they figured it out.
> 
> Then I got a clue that a standalone was as stackfile...

I think you may have just provided some important usability feedback about
the conceptual complexity of the Distribution Builder's advanced options.

Most folks redily grasp the one-stackfile->one-stadalone paradigm.  But with
the DB's two sets of "Inclusion" controls each being very different things,
one of those being on a card for importing stackfiles that also lets you
export those stacks to separate stackfiles again, and none of these labeled
as "Advanced", it can be quite a lot to wrap one's head around.

If it confused a person with your IQ just imagine what it does to 100s. :)

-- 
 Richard Gaskin 
 Fourth World Media Corporation
 ___________________________________________________________
 Ambassador at FourthWorld.com       http://www.FourthWorld.com


From erikhans08 at yahoo.com  Wed Feb  4 21:20:14 2004
From: erikhans08 at yahoo.com (erik hansen)
Date: Wed, 4 Feb 2004 18:20:14 -0800 (PST)
Subject: set the rect of stack "revScriptEditor 2" to 82,44,766,768 # it
	just froze
In-Reply-To: <20040205013005.18060.qmail@web61101.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <20040205022015.71642.qmail@web61102.mail.yahoo.com>

--- erik hansen <erikhans08 at yahoo.com> wrote:
> set the rect of stack "revScriptEditor 2" \
> to 82,44,766,768

it just froze.
maybe too clever by half here.

Erik Hansen

=====
erik at erikhansen.org    http://www.erikhansen.org

__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free web site building tool. Try it!
http://webhosting.yahoo.com/ps/sb/

From hershbp at realtorsgroup.us  Wed Feb  4 21:48:24 2004
From: hershbp at realtorsgroup.us (hershrev)
Date: Wed, 4 Feb 2004 21:48:24 -0500
Subject: global variables
In-Reply-To: <225691AD-5780-11D8-838B-0003937A97B8@genesearch.com.au>
Message-ID: <C4AB86A8-5785-11D8-8180-0030654C1E62@realtorsgroup.us>

Your a guineas .
I'd wouldn't get it .
But I'm wondering why from the message box it did work?
Thanks again.
On Wednesday, February 4, 2004, at 09:08 PM, Sarah Reichelt wrote:

> On 5 Feb 2004, at 11:39 am, hershrev wrote:
>
>> And while we are at it , why doesn't this work , meaning the 
>> gmyEditLine remains empty
>>
>> global myQuery,mySelectedLine,myDbId,myEditLine
>> on mouseUp
>>   put line mySelectedLine of myPkid into myEditLine
>>   put "SELECT company,last_name FROM contacts WHERE (pk ='"& 
>> myEditLine &"')" into myQuery
>>   put revDataFromQuery(,,myDbId,myQuery)into field "find Field"
>> end mouseUp
>>
>> And if i do it in the message box:  put line mySelectedLine of myPkid 
>> into myEditLine, it does work
>>
> Is myPkid a global variable also? It looks like this script doesn't 
> know that it is, so it can't get any data from it.
>
> Sarah
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>


From dsc at swcp.com  Wed Feb  4 22:26:08 2004
From: dsc at swcp.com (Dar Scott)
Date: Wed, 4 Feb 2004 20:26:08 -0700
Subject: Where goes stacks, included stacks and externals?  (was Dialogs in
	library organization)
In-Reply-To: <FLEGJBMJADGKMCHIMFOHOEMODPAA.monte@sweattechnologies.com>
Message-ID: <09F8B646-578B-11D8-B3C0-000A9567A3E6@swcp.com>


On Wednesday, February 4, 2004, at 07:02 PM, Monte Goulding wrote:

>> On the other hand, one has to fiddle with the bundle anyway.  If
>> libraries are included in a build, they are put in the MacOS
>> subdirectory, which Apple has assigned for dynamically loadable stuff.
>
> Wouldn't you class stackFiles as dymanically loadable stuff? No matter 
> what
> Apple says it's far simpler for Revers to think of the MacOS directory 
> as
> the  application directory and put all our files there. Having one 
> directory
> structure for OS X and another for all other platforms just doesn't 
> make
> sense.

They already are different.  On Windows, stacks included in 
applications are put in the same folder as the app, but on OS X they 
are put down inside the applications.

I don't think Revers tend to think of their stacks in OS X apps as 
necessarily MacOS specific.

This is related to the problem of externals and their stacks and their 
relative locations.

Which brings up a question I've been wondering in general and that is 
the location of stacks and externals.  Where?  And also the how of a 
uniform way to reference them.

If the normal static reference to externals are used, the default 
relative location of an external to its stack would normally be fixed.  
If a stack needs another stack, that might be relative, too, but that 
is less important.

So on Windows or OS X or traditional Mac OS or even Linux, where do 
stacks for development, applications, or part of applications go?  
Where do externals?  I mean by this, where do folks currently put them 
and where should they go.

Dar Scott


From sarahr at genesearch.com.au  Wed Feb  4 22:58:45 2004
From: sarahr at genesearch.com.au (Sarah Reichelt)
Date: Thu, 5 Feb 2004 13:58:45 +1000
Subject: global variables
In-Reply-To: <C4AB86A8-5785-11D8-8180-0030654C1E62@realtorsgroup.us>
References: <C4AB86A8-5785-11D8-8180-0030654C1E62@realtorsgroup.us>
Message-ID: <989372BA-578F-11D8-99DF-0003937A97B8@genesearch.com.au>

On 5 Feb 2004, at 12:49 pm, hershrev wrote:

> Your a guineas .
I'll take that as a compliment :-)
> I'd wouldn't get it .
> But I'm wondering why from the message box it did work?
I think the message box checks all the variables you use to see if they 
are globals.

Cheers,
Sarah


From themacguy at macosx.com  Wed Feb  4 23:06:33 2004
From: themacguy at macosx.com (Barry Levine)
Date: Wed, 4 Feb 2004 21:06:33 -0700
Subject: Directory Walker question
Message-ID: <AF49DF3F-5790-11D8-B056-000A95763ABC@macosx.com>

In a number of earlier digests, there was discussion about the 
"directory walker". I've copied that code into my script and, sure 
enough, it works exactly as advertised. However, in OSX, it also walks 
down through app bundles. I'd like to stop before diving into the 
bundle. However, I need to get the total size of the bundle (both data 
and resource) for later purposes. I've played with the "detailed files" 
function and it looks like I may have to use it to add up everything 
inside the bundle. I don't mind doing that (as Rev is really quite 
fast).

Near as I can tell, I'd have to use the "detailed files" function after 
using the directory walker in order to add up the bytes of both forks 
of all the files, and then run a modified version of the directory 
walker routine which would permit me to recognize app bundles and end 
up with a list that's similar to what the user sees in the Finder. 
(Alternatively, once I have the detailed files of the entire tree, 
could I parse through it and eliminate what I don't need?)

Here's what the directory walker sees (I've removed the enclosing 
folders to make it readable in this eMail):

Adobe ImageReady 7.0/Adobe ImageReady 7.0,0,949
Adobe ImageReady 7.0/Contents/Info.plist,14148,0
Adobe ImageReady 7.0/Contents/MacOS/ACECarbonLib,526041,518
Adobe ImageReady 7.0/Contents/MacOS/ADM-PNG,46781,2989
Adobe ImageReady 7.0/Contents/MacOS/ADMCarbon Plugin,882650,71737
(and lots more lines listing the stuff inside the ImageReady app)

So the big question is: How do I get the directory walker to recognize 
that it's encountered an OSX app bundle (ImageReady 7.0, in this case) 
and have it -not- examine what's inside. In the above example, it's 
already dropped inside the ImageReady bundle. Using the above example, 
what I'd like to end up with is simply "Adobe ImageReady 7.0" as the 
only line.

Thanks for any suggestions,
Barry


From hershbp at realtorsgroup.us  Wed Feb  4 23:19:39 2004
From: hershbp at realtorsgroup.us (hershrev)
Date: Wed, 4 Feb 2004 23:19:39 -0500
Subject: global variables
In-Reply-To: <989372BA-578F-11D8-99DF-0003937A97B8@genesearch.com.au>
Message-ID: <83B6CC6E-5792-11D8-8180-0030654C1E62@realtorsgroup.us>


On Wednesday, February 4, 2004, at 10:58 PM, Sarah Reichelt wrote:

> On 5 Feb 2004, at 12:49 pm, hershrev wrote:
>
>> Your a guineas .
> I'll take that as a compliment :-)
It definitely is.
>> I'd wouldn't get it .
>> But I'm wondering why from the message box it did work?
> I think the message box checks all the variables you use to see if 
> they are globals.
>
> Cheers,
> Sarah
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>


From hershbp at realtorsgroup.us  Wed Feb  4 23:22:04 2004
From: hershbp at realtorsgroup.us (hershrev)
Date: Wed, 4 Feb 2004 23:22:04 -0500
Subject: saving stacks
In-Reply-To: <508CF6B4-5771-11D8-8180-0030654C1E62@realtorsgroup.us>
Message-ID: <DA625030-5792-11D8-8180-0030654C1E62@realtorsgroup.us>

Any help on this one please ?
On Wednesday, February 4, 2004, at 07:22 PM, hershrev wrote:

> Hi, I can't figure out why my stacks don't save proper , if it holds a 
> few days is very nice . If I build an application, forget it ,every 
> thing runs around going crazy.
> Thanks hershrev
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>


From jacque at hyperactivesw.com  Wed Feb  4 23:36:01 2004
From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay)
Date: Wed, 04 Feb 2004 22:36:01 -0600
Subject: Library stack organization and standalones
In-Reply-To: <1FBB7914-576E-11D8-B3C0-000A9567A3E6@swcp.com>
References: <1FBB7914-576E-11D8-B3C0-000A9567A3E6@swcp.com>
Message-ID: <4021C831.1020902@hyperactivesw.com>

On 2/4/04 5:59 PM, Dar Scott wrote:

> If I flatten a collection of stack files into a single stack file, the 
> message path is changed.  That means that my testing in the IDE is 
> against a different path than what will be in the standalone.

I usually just develop the whole thing with the various stacks already 
embedded as substacks. As a matter of fact, when I first saw the DB 
option to merge separate stacks, I couldn't imagine what it was for. It 
had never occured to me to work that way.

If you develop the same way you plan to deploy, the message path stays 
the same.

-- 
Jacqueline Landman Gay         |     jacque at hyperactivesw.com
HyperActive Software           |     http://www.hyperactivesw.com

From dsc at swcp.com  Wed Feb  4 23:43:19 2004
From: dsc at swcp.com (Dar Scott)
Date: Wed, 4 Feb 2004 21:43:19 -0700
Subject: Directory Walker question
In-Reply-To: <AF49DF3F-5790-11D8-B056-000A95763ABC@macosx.com>
Message-ID: <D21CD61A-5795-11D8-B3C0-000A9567A3E6@swcp.com>


On Wednesday, February 4, 2004, at 09:06 PM, Barry Levine wrote:

> So the big question is: How do I get the directory walker to recognize 
> that it's encountered an OSX app bundle (ImageReady 7.0, in this case) 
> and have it -not- examine what's inside.

I would have expected an app bundle to end with ".app", but that 
doesn't seem to be the case with ImageReady, Photoshop and Primiere.  
Somehow, the finder knows.

I think the finder looks for either the bundle bit or conventions such 
as .app or .framework or .bundle or maybe more.

You might try detailed folders on the parent and see if you see 
something that looks like the bit.

You might have to recognize it by the file pattern.

(Weird, I was just looking into the Adobe bundles to see how they do 
things.  When I was looking at the Apple site on bundles I didn't 
notice any fine type for applications.)

Dar Scott


From briany at qldlearning.com  Wed Feb  4 23:43:51 2004
From: briany at qldlearning.com (Brian Yennie)
Date: Wed, 4 Feb 2004 23:43:51 -0500
Subject: saving stacks
In-Reply-To: <DA625030-5792-11D8-8180-0030654C1E62@realtorsgroup.us>
Message-ID: <E4F6401C-5795-11D8-AE3B-000393AA08D2@qldlearning.com>

Hershrev,

I'm not sure I understand your question: could you give more specifics?
Do you mean that your stack runs properly until you build a standalone, 
and then it malfunctions? If so, what does your stack do? Have you made 
sure to include all the necessary libraries that your stack uses?

HTH
Brian

>> Hi, I can't figure out why my stacks don't save proper , if it holds 
>> a few days is very nice . If I build an application, forget it ,every 
>> thing runs around going crazy.
>> Thanks hershrev


From dsc at swcp.com  Wed Feb  4 23:48:28 2004
From: dsc at swcp.com (Dar Scott)
Date: Wed, 4 Feb 2004 21:48:28 -0700
Subject: Library stack organization and standalones
In-Reply-To: <4021C831.1020902@hyperactivesw.com>
Message-ID: <8A2266CF-5796-11D8-B3C0-000A9567A3E6@swcp.com>


On Wednesday, February 4, 2004, at 09:36 PM, J. Landman Gay wrote:

> I usually just develop the whole thing with the various stacks already 
> embedded as substacks. As a matter of fact, when I first saw the DB 
> option to merge separate stacks, I couldn't imagine what it was for. 
> It had never occured to me to work that way.
>
> If you develop the same way you plan to deploy, the message path stays 
> the same.

I am discovering that there are lots of different styles.

I like to build and obtain libraries and use them lots of places.  So, 
I think I will adapt to applications having lots of stacks about and 
only worry about making monolithic applications when I really have to.

Dar Scott


From chipp at chipp.com  Thu Feb  5 00:00:28 2004
From: chipp at chipp.com (Chipp Walters)
Date: Wed, 4 Feb 2004 23:00:28 -0600
Subject: Library stack organization and standalones
In-Reply-To: <8A2266CF-5796-11D8-B3C0-000A9567A3E6@swcp.com>
Message-ID: <GGEOJBEEGFHLDOFIMMPIKEFEFPAA.chipp@chipp.com>

Dar,

I concur with this approach. One of the cool things about it, is if you
update a library, you only need drag a copy of it's stack to the proper
folder and your app is updated.

Earlier, I was getting confused with the term "monolithic", I assume you
mean "all in one standalone". I thought you were just referring to the
overall size of the application (multiple stack files and all).

best,

Chipp

> I like to build and obtain libraries and use them lots of places.  So,
> I think I will adapt to applications having lots of stacks about and
> only worry about making monolithic applications when I really have to.
>
> Dar Scott



From dsc at swcp.com  Thu Feb  5 00:04:54 2004
From: dsc at swcp.com (Dar Scott)
Date: Wed, 4 Feb 2004 22:04:54 -0700
Subject: Library stack organization and standalones
In-Reply-To: <GGEOJBEEGFHLDOFIMMPIKEFEFPAA.chipp@chipp.com>
Message-ID: <D5D1F9B3-5798-11D8-B3C0-000A9567A3E6@swcp.com>


On Wednesday, February 4, 2004, at 10:00 PM, Chipp Walters wrote:

> Earlier, I was getting confused with the term "monolithic", I assume 
> you
> mean "all in one standalone".

And it may be that "standalone" can be confusing, too.

Sorry about the confusion; I don't even recognize when I'm making up my 
own jargon.

Dar Scott


From dsc at swcp.com  Thu Feb  5 00:14:11 2004
From: dsc at swcp.com (Dar Scott)
Date: Wed, 4 Feb 2004 22:14:11 -0700
Subject: Library stack organization and standalones
In-Reply-To: <BC46E4CB.3CAEC%ambassador@fourthworld.com>
Message-ID: <224492F2-579A-11D8-B3C0-000A9567A3E6@swcp.com>


On Wednesday, February 4, 2004, at 07:04 PM, Richard Gaskin wrote:

>> I think this may be a doc problem.  I thought build a standalone meant
>> build a standalone.
>
> It does, in the sense that the application doesn't need a separate 
> "player"
> engine.

That's what I now realize.

> Us "old schoolers" who started out with MC fell into the habit of 
> building
> with the structure we want in the standalone, since the MC builder just
> bound the VM to your specified stack file without any of the extras.

That is what is missing in the description of the DB, that in its heart 
what it does is paste a stack-file onto an executable.

> Thanks to those explanations I understand the intention, but I still 
> prefer
> to minimize differences between the development environment and the
> standalone; it may be superstition, as those who do otherwise report 
> few
> problems, but I have enough debugging to do in my stuff as it is. :)

We still have the difference of where mainStack goes in the message 
path.

However, I wasn't trying to have any differences.  No more than we 
worry about differences between a script and a compiled script, we 
assume the compiled script faithfully reflects the script.  I thought I 
was noticing potential differences.

Now that I am a reformed man, I will try to keep to the traditional 
stacks-lying-about method.  Unless I find embedded stacks and externals 
useful.  ;-)

Dar Scott




From hershbp at realtorsgroup.us  Thu Feb  5 00:19:33 2004
From: hershbp at realtorsgroup.us (hershrev)
Date: Thu, 5 Feb 2004 00:19:33 -0500
Subject: saving stacks
In-Reply-To: <E4F6401C-5795-11D8-AE3B-000393AA08D2@qldlearning.com>
Message-ID: <E1B93F6C-579A-11D8-8180-0030654C1E62@realtorsgroup.us>


On Wednesday, February 4, 2004, at 11:43 PM, Brian Yennie wrote:

> Hershrev,
>
> I'm not sure I understand your question: could you give more specifics?
I cuts off the bottoms , the buttons go away from place, the fields 
changes size, the patterns disappear . I made sure that when I build 
distribution I include every thing. Also before building a stand alone 
the same thing happens, it holds a bit and then it changes when I quit 
Revolution and restart.
> Do you mean that your stack runs properly until you build a 
> standalone, and then it malfunctions? If so, what does your stack do? 
> Have you made sure to include all the necessary libraries that your 
> stack uses?
>
> HTH
> Brian
>
>>> Hi, I can't figure out why my stacks don't save proper , if it holds 
>>> a few days is very nice . If I build an application, forget it 
>>> ,every thing runs around going crazy.
>>> Thanks hershrev
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>


From dvk at dvkconsult.com.au  Thu Feb  5 00:38:00 2004
From: dvk at dvkconsult.com.au (David Vaughan)
Date: Thu, 5 Feb 2004 16:38:00 +1100
Subject: Directory Walker question
In-Reply-To: <20040205043656.484E593021E@mail.runrev.com>
References: <20040205043656.484E593021E@mail.runrev.com>
Message-ID: <75EE8D12-579D-11D8-B5C5-000A95729266@dvkconsult.com.au>

/Applications/Revolution 2.1.2/Revolution.app
Creator:
Type:

On 05/02/2004, at 15:36, Barry Levine <themacguy at macosx.com> wrote:
>
> In a number of earlier digests, there was discussion about the  
> "directory walker". I've copied that code into my script and, sure  
> enough, it works exactly as advertised. However, in OSX, it also walks  
> down through app bundles. I'd like to stop before diving into the  
> bundle. However, I need to get the total size of the bundle (both data  
> and resource) for later purposes. I've played with the "detailed  
> files" function and it looks like I may have to use it to add up  
> everything inside the bundle. I don't mind doing that (as Rev is  
> really quite fast).
>
> Near as I can tell, I'd have to use the "detailed files" function  
> after using the directory walker in order to add up the bytes of both  
> forks of all the files, and then run a modified version of the  
> directory walker routine which would permit me to recognize app  
> bundles and end up with a list that's similar to what the user sees in  
> the Finder. (Alternatively, once I have the detailed files of the  
> entire tree, could I parse through it and eliminate what I don't  
> need?)
>
> Here's what the directory walker sees (I've removed the enclosing  
> folders to make it readable in this eMail):
>
> Adobe ImageReady 7.0/Adobe ImageReady 7.0,0,949
> Adobe ImageReady 7.0/Contents/Info.plist,14148,0
> Adobe ImageReady 7.0/Contents/MacOS/ACECarbonLib,526041,518
> Adobe ImageReady 7.0/Contents/MacOS/ADM-PNG,46781,2989
> Adobe ImageReady 7.0/Contents/MacOS/ADMCarbon Plugin,882650,71737
> (and lots more lines listing the stuff inside the ImageReady app)
>
> So the big question is: How do I get the directory walker to recognize  
> that it's encountered an OSX app bundle (ImageReady 7.0, in this case)  
> and have it -not- examine what's inside. In the above example, it's  
> already dropped inside the ImageReady bundle. Using the above example,  
> what I'd like to end up with is simply "Adobe ImageReady 7.0" as the  
> only line.

Barry

I notice that in the "detailed folders" listing, an app bundle appears  
as follows (for example):
Revolution.app,136,1535180800,1035608180,1068205493,1075788371,0,501,80, 
777,????????

Note it is in the folder list, not the file list, has question marks  
for creator/type and a ".app" suffix on the name. I am assuming this  
will provide reliable identification.

When you encounter a folder of this nature, initiate directory walker  
for that folder alone (this is within your normal walk process - you  
will need to add this code), add up the components, and list it under  
the app bundle name with ".app" stripped. OK?

Well, I think it should work :-)

cheers
David

>
> Thanks for any suggestions,
> Barry


From dsc at swcp.com  Thu Feb  5 01:09:49 2004
From: dsc at swcp.com (Dar Scott)
Date: Wed, 4 Feb 2004 23:09:49 -0700
Subject: Directory Walker question
In-Reply-To: <75EE8D12-579D-11D8-B5C5-000A95729266@dvkconsult.com.au>
Message-ID: <E7621FDC-57A1-11D8-B3C0-000A9567A3E6@swcp.com>


On Wednesday, February 4, 2004, at 10:38 PM, David Vaughan wrote:

> Revolution.app,136,1535180800,1035608180,1068205493,1075788371,0,501,80 
> ,777,????????
>
> Note it is in the folder list, not the file list, has question marks  
> for creator/type and a ".app" suffix on the name. I am assuming this  
> will provide reliable identification.

I think that Barry's problem is that the Adobe applications don't have  
the ".app" suffix.

I think the finder checks this:

1.  It checks for a bundle bit.  I don't think Apple bothers with  
setting this for their stuff.

2.  It checks for .app, .bundle or .framework.

3.  It looks for a pattern in the bundle structure.

I don't know how to do #1; there might be some shell() or AppleScript()  
method.

I expect that #1 and #3 together will work most of the time.

I'm not sure how much of a pattern is needed.  Maybe this:  The next  
level has a single folder named Contents and it contains (among other  
things) file info.plist and folder Resources.

Dar


From dsc at swcp.com  Thu Feb  5 01:44:46 2004
From: dsc at swcp.com (Dar Scott)
Date: Wed, 4 Feb 2004 23:44:46 -0700
Subject: Directory Walker question
In-Reply-To: <E7621FDC-57A1-11D8-B3C0-000A9567A3E6@swcp.com>
Message-ID: <C96F63A2-57A6-11D8-B3C0-000A9567A3E6@swcp.com>


On Wednesday, February 4, 2004, at 11:09 PM, Dar Scott wrote:

> I'm not sure how much of a pattern is needed.  Maybe this:  The next 
> level has a single folder named Contents and it contains (among other 
> things) file info.plist and folder Resources.

In poking around and seeing how folks make bundles, I noticed that 
Adobe bundles might not have info.plist; check for folder MacOS instead.

Dar


From xbury.cs at clearstream.com  Thu Feb  5 02:06:09 2004
From: xbury.cs at clearstream.com (xbury.cs at clearstream.com)
Date: Thu, 5 Feb 2004 08:06:09 +0100
Subject: Rev Review
Message-ID: <OF806767B2.A1E42E84-ONC1256E31.0026777B-C1256E31.00270449@deutsche-boerse.de>

>It's a tough issue. There are some Linux users on the list. But instead
>of Runrev trimming the list of official available platforms, what's
>happening in practice is they are poorly supported: one poster to this
>list every month or so begs for a SGI IRIX Rev engine which he has been
>trying to locate for a long time. Don't know if it's the same for the
>other UNIX platforms.
>
>Not sure, but I think metacard used to be developed on Linux. So
>building the engine for UNIX should not be a major hurdle. The number
>of platforms available is one of Runrev's most unique features! So I
>hope they never trim the list of platforms supported.

As a new Linux PPC Dreambox (<http://www.dreambox.net.au/index.html>) 
owner, I would love to have more control on my decoder and enjoy RR on the 
big screen!

So it's possible that RR might be interested in spanning the RR linux 
engine elsewhere!
More platforms = more clients and in terms of "appliances", this could be 
a big show
for the RR logo ;)

Xav


Visit us at http://www.clearstream.com
                                                          
IMPORTANT MESSAGE

Internet communications are not secure and therefore Clearstream International does not accept legal responsibility for the contents of this message.

The information contained in this e-mail is confidential and may be legally privileged. It is intended solely for the addressee. If you are not the intended recipient, any disclosure, copying, distribution or any action taken or omitted to be taken in reliance on it, is prohibited and may be unlawful. Any views expressed in this e-mail are those of the individual sender, except where the sender specifically states them to be the views of Clearstream International or of any of its affiliates or subsidiaries.

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From xbury.cs at clearstream.com  Thu Feb  5 02:38:02 2004
From: xbury.cs at clearstream.com (xbury.cs at clearstream.com)
Date: Thu, 5 Feb 2004 08:38:02 +0100
Subject: Network and communications questions
Message-ID: <OF24801240.B55D9FC4-ONC1256E31.0029E0FD-C1256E31.0029EFCE@deutsche-boerse.de>

Brent,

Try this:
<http://www.runrev.com/revolution/downloads/developerdownloads/Networking.zip>

Works great!

On 05/02/2004 01:58:25 use-revolution-bounces wrote:
>Hello.
>I am writing a group of programs designed to communicate with each
>other over a network and wanted to know specifics on the best way to
>have one program send and receive over a network connection, how to set
>it up in Revolution, and any other tips and commands that I can't seem
>to find in the documentation. Another question I have is how Revolution
>communicates over a network in the first place (does it use peer to
>peer or does it need a computer to act as a server, or some other form
>of connection?)
>
>Thanks,
>Brent Anderson
>
>_______________________________________________
>use-revolution mailing list
>use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
>http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution


Visit us at http://www.clearstream.com
                                                          
IMPORTANT MESSAGE

Internet communications are not secure and therefore Clearstream International does not accept legal responsibility for the contents of this message.

The information contained in this e-mail is confidential and may be legally privileged. It is intended solely for the addressee. If you are not the intended recipient, any disclosure, copying, distribution or any action taken or omitted to be taken in reliance on it, is prohibited and may be unlawful. Any views expressed in this e-mail are those of the individual sender, except where the sender specifically states them to be the views of Clearstream International or of any of its affiliates or subsidiaries.

END OF DISCLAIMER

From monte at sweattechnologies.com  Wed Feb  4 22:42:10 2004
From: monte at sweattechnologies.com (Monte Goulding)
Date: Thu, 5 Feb 2004 14:12:10 +1030
Subject: Where goes stacks, included stacks and externals?  (was Dialogs
	inlibrary organization)
In-Reply-To: <09F8B646-578B-11D8-B3C0-000A9567A3E6@swcp.com>
Message-ID: <FLEGJBMJADGKMCHIMFOHOENADPAA.monte@sweattechnologies.com>


> They already are different.  On Windows, stacks included in
> applications are put in the same folder as the app, but on OS X they
> are put down inside the applications.

Not if you think of the MacOS folder as the application directory. Don't
forget the application bundle is just a set of folders.
>
> I don't think Revers tend to think of their stacks in OS X apps as
> necessarily MacOS specific.

That's not what I meant.

> So on Windows or OS X or traditional Mac OS or even Linux, where do
> stacks for development, applications, or part of applications go?
> Where do externals?  I mean by this, where do folks currently put them
> and where should they go.

I'm not sure what you mean here.

Cheers

Monte


From chipp at chipp.com  Thu Feb  5 02:50:21 2004
From: chipp at chipp.com (Chipp Walters)
Date: Thu, 5 Feb 2004 01:50:21 -0600
Subject: Tutorials or instructions on delivering MacOSX apps...
Message-ID: <GGEOJBEEGFHLDOFIMMPIIEFLFPAA.chipp@chipp.com>

I've seen (and made) some tutorials on building icons for Windows apps. And
using a utility like Install Creator from Clickteam (www.clickteam.com) is a
great way to build an installer for Windows.

But, I've not yet built installers for standalones on MacOSX. Anyone know of
a step-by-step way to produce and distribute commercial standalones for OSX?

TIA,

Chipp



From janschenkel at yahoo.com  Thu Feb  5 04:02:39 2004
From: janschenkel at yahoo.com (Jan Schenkel)
Date: Thu, 5 Feb 2004 01:02:39 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Valentina Script Problem
In-Reply-To: <8B74A8BE-5770-11D8-BD5B-000A95B02D84@mac.com>
Message-ID: <20040205090239.40375.qmail@web60501.mail.yahoo.com>

--- Brian Maher <plsntbreez at mac.com> wrote:
> Hi Folks,
> 
> As a test I have the following script to insert
> 1,000,000 records into 
> a Valentina database.  The script works without
> error (although I had 
> to use revdb_commit since revCommitDatabase returns
> an error that the 
> command is not understood) but when I close the db
> in rev then open it 
> in the Valentina application there are no records in
> the database.  
> Does anyone have any idea what is going on?
> 
> Thanks, Brian
> 
> global theDB
> 
> on mouseUp
> 
>    put the ticks into time1
> 
>    repeat for 1000000 times
>      put the random of 100000 into x
>      revExecuteSQL theDB, "INSERT INTO RandomTable
> (ID, StringData) 
> VALUES (" & x & "'String Value " & x & "')"
>    end repeat
> 
>    revCommitDatabase theDB
> 
>    put the ticks into time2
> 
>    answer (time2 - time1)
> 
> end mouseUp
> 

Hi Bryan,

It's always good to check 'the result' right after
executing a command ; so I'd suggest you change your
repeat loop to :
--
   repeat for 1000000 times
     put the random of 100000 into x
     revExecuteSQL theDB, \
         "INSERT INTO RandomTable " & \
         "(ID, StringData) VALUES (" & \
         x & ",'String Value " & x & "')"
     if the result is not empty then
       answer error (the result)
       exit to top
     end if
   end repeat
--

In this case, it would have given you some sort of
warning that the SQL statement was incorrect. There
was no comma between x and the stringdata.

In using Revoltuoon  with databases, the 'merge'
function has become my best friend to build sql-
queries and spot errors :
--
  put merge("INSERT INTO RandomTable (ID,StringData)
VALUES ([[x]],'String Value [[x]]')") into tSQLQuery
  revExecuteSQL theDB, tSQLQuery
--

If you look at its entry in the Transcript Dictionary,
you'll see that it will evaluate expressions between
[[ and ]], as well as execute code between <? and ?>
The end result is, at least IMHO, a combination of
readable queries and scripts.

Hope this helped,

Jan Schenkel.

=====
"As we grow older, we grow both wiser and more foolish at the same time."  (La Rochefoucauld)

__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Finance: Get your refund fast by filing online.
http://taxes.yahoo.com/filing.html

From jbv.silences at Club-Internet.fr  Thu Feb  5 04:22:58 2004
From: jbv.silences at Club-Internet.fr (jbv)
Date: Thu, 05 Feb 2004 10:22:58 +0100
Subject: SMS from Rev CGI
Message-ID: <40220B6E.83BDCF@Club-Internet.fr>

Hi guys,

I'd like to send SMS to individual mobile phones
from a Rev CGI script...
Could this be done with libSMPT ? If not, what
other solutions ?

Thanks,
JB


From gcanyon at inspiredlogic.com  Thu Feb  5 04:53:16 2004
From: gcanyon at inspiredlogic.com (Geoff Canyon)
Date: Thu, 5 Feb 2004 01:53:16 -0800
Subject: Odd behavior on XP
Message-ID: <1EF0B5DC-57C1-11D8-ACEB-003065683ECC@inspiredlogic.com>

I'm searching for the inserted cd's drive letter on an XP machine by 
looking for a file on the cd using each of the drive letters in the 
volumes. On other PCs this works fine; on the XP machine it brings up 
an insert media warning/dialog for each removable drive that doesn't 
have something in it. Is there another way around this? Are others 
using XP seeing this?

regards,

Geoff Canyon
gcanyon at inspiredlogic.com


From rjb at rz.uni-potsdam.de  Thu Feb  5 04:55:49 2004
From: rjb at rz.uni-potsdam.de (Robert Brenstein)
Date: Thu, 5 Feb 2004 10:55:49 +0100
Subject: SMS from Rev CGI
In-Reply-To: <40220B6E.83BDCF@Club-Internet.fr>
References: <40220B6E.83BDCF@Club-Internet.fr>
Message-ID: <a06020403bc47c370e117@[141.89.100.235]>

>Hi guys,
>
>I'd like to send SMS to individual mobile phones
>from a Rev CGI script...
>Could this be done with libSMPT ? If not, what
>other solutions ?
>
>Thanks,
>JB

If you can send it from normal email client, then yes, smtpLib should 
work same.

Robert

From dcragg at lacscentre.co.uk  Thu Feb  5 05:27:07 2004
From: dcragg at lacscentre.co.uk (Dave Cragg)
Date: Thu, 5 Feb 2004 10:27:07 +0000
Subject: Odd behavior on XP
In-Reply-To: <1EF0B5DC-57C1-11D8-ACEB-003065683ECC@inspiredlogic.com>
References: <1EF0B5DC-57C1-11D8-ACEB-003065683ECC@inspiredlogic.com>
Message-ID: <p06020410bc47c9e99a2b@[192.168.123.7]>

At 1:53 am -0800 5/2/04, Geoff Canyon wrote:
>I'm searching for the inserted cd's drive letter on an XP machine by
>looking for a file on the cd using each of the drive letters in the
>volumes. On other PCs this works fine; on the XP machine it brings
>up an insert media warning/dialog for each removable drive that
>doesn't have something in it. Is there another way around this? Are
>others using XP seeing this?

I think it's been reported before. It's not limited to XP (I've had 
reports from 2000 users) but it seems more common on XP. It doesn't 
affect all machines. I don't get it here anymore but I did at one 
time. Having a disk (any disk) in the drive will stop it happening. 
Also, I heard of some theory that just installing more software (any 
software) can help it go away. I tried that (installing a couple of 
things) and it seemed to work.

Some voodoo going on, it seems.

Cheers
Dave

From mato.kola at wanblizaptan.com  Thu Feb  5 05:37:30 2004
From: mato.kola at wanblizaptan.com (Jerry Daniels)
Date: Thu, 5 Feb 2004 04:37:30 -0600
Subject: Andy's comments and positioning...
In-Reply-To: <ACEELABEAIANJNCEJFMAAEEDIMAA.chipp@chipp.com>
References: <ACEELABEAIANJNCEJFMAAEEDIMAA.chipp@chipp.com>
Message-ID: <4C7BC854-57C7-11D8-B32A-000A95B300EC@wanblizaptan.com>

As I recall there are four P's in marketing: Product, Price, Place and 
Promotion. These four work together dynamically and not in isolation. 
Any decision about price has to consider the company's ability to 
promote the product and place (distribute) it in a consumer's hot 
little hands.

How these four P's work together determines how the product is 
positioned in the consumer's mind. Good positioning will make someone 
think the product is a good deal for $xxx and that they have to have it 
NOW. Positioning is, of course, more than a statement.

I don't see how a company can thrive supporting ALL these platforms and 
sell a product for $99 unless they are marketing the hell out of it and 
are well funded to do so.

Maybe there are sales figures and cash flow to back the $99 approach. I 
don't know. Do people convert to more expensive licenses after getting 
a taste for 99 dollars? Do ten times the number of people buy the $99 
version than would have purchased the $995 version? Is $495 best? 
People are buying miniPods for $249 and they have to wait for one! And 
that's an entertainment item--a toy. This is a professional tool--MUCH 
more than HyperCard.

Those are some of my thoughts, anyway.

-Jerry

On Feb 4, 2004, at 3:35 PM, Chipp Walters wrote:

> I like to think of RR as a *real development tool*, not as a HyperCard 
> clone
> or newbie play toy. Unfortunately, I believe Andy thinks of it more as 
> a
> HyperCard clone...primarily because of positioning.
>
> What if RR is positioned as the ubiquitous RAD programming environment 
> for
> cross platform development -- surpassing in both speed and performance 
> other
> tools such as JAVA, QT, VB, etc.? I think this is a valid positioning
> statement. Now to turn around and say "and it's only $99" and your Mom 
> can
> use it, certainly doesn't seem to back this up.
>
> Which brings us to the real problem...positioning. RR can be 
> positioned as a
> 'HyperCard clone' for the inventive user OR as a full-featured 
> development
> tool for professionals can use to build commercial and enterprise
> applications.
>
> There have been a few comments lately about Rev pricing...
>
> I think Rev's pricing is right on the money. Users can download a free
> version which they can try out for 30 days. Of course the HyperCard 
> clone
> crowd wants a version for $99 bucks. That is where their expectation 
> is set
> (just like Andy). After all, Apple used to 'give it away.'
>
> But, developers whose business depends on RR, are used to paying much 
> more
> for professional tools. Just look at other cross-platform development
> suites. By comparison, RR is a steal.
>
> One of the biggest challenges for Xtalk companies is their ability to 
> stay
> funded and alive. I believe in RR as a professional development tool. 
> And,
> as a professional developer, I can make money with it, even if it does 
> cost
> hundreds of dollars.
>
> Many of you already know this, but it's an interesting story 
> nonetheless.
> Last year, I wrote ButtonGadget in about 3 weeks of spare time. I sold 
> in on
> my website using PayPal for $20 a copy. In less than one year, I 
> bought two
> plasma screen TV's with the profits. The program was written all in 
> native
> Transcript. No DLL's nor externals. As a VB programmer, I can tell you 
> there
> is NO WAY I could have developed such a product so rapidly, in fact, I
> wouldn't have developed ButtonGadget in either VB or C++ as IMO the 
> return
> of time vs revenue would've been too risky.
>
> The reason I mention this is to demonstrate the incredible revenue 
> potential
> for products developed with this product. I also could mention we're
> currently using RR to build a very large Enterprise Application for 
> Homeland
> Security. It scales as well - from ButtonGadget to Enterprise Content
> Management Systems connected to huge databases. $99 bucks just doesn't 
> cash
> in on it's value to me. And I really want to see Revolution do well, 
> so I
> continue to be able to write these cool programs!
>
> -Chipp
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>


From wouter.abraham at pi.be  Thu Feb  5 06:12:26 2004
From: wouter.abraham at pi.be (Wouter)
Date: Thu, 5 Feb 2004 12:12:26 +0100
Subject: Directory Walker question
In-Reply-To: <20040205043711.D3D73930153@mail.runrev.com>
References: <20040205043711.D3D73930153@mail.runrev.com>
Message-ID: <2E1A8704-57CC-11D8-B898-003065CC999E@pi.be>


On 05 Feb 2004, at 05:37, use-revolution-request at lists.runrev.com wrote:

> Message: 8
> Date: Wed, 4 Feb 2004 21:06:33 -0700
> From: Barry Levine <themacguy at macosx.com>
> Subject: Directory Walker question
> To: use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> Message-ID: <AF49DF3F-5790-11D8-B056-000A95763ABC at macosx.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed


snip



> So the big question is: How do I get the directory walker to recognize
> that it's encountered an OSX app bundle (ImageReady 7.0, in this case)
> and have it -not- examine what's inside. In the above example, it's
> already dropped inside the ImageReady bundle. Using the above example,
> what I'd like to end up with is simply "Adobe ImageReady 7.0" as the
> only line.
>
> Thanks for any suggestions,
> Barry

The shell("ls -R")  function (### other additional flags available are 
F, l and x)
will  recognize  .app extension( if any) and handle  symbolic links 
correctly.

Greetings,
WA


From jbv.silences at Club-Internet.fr  Thu Feb  5 06:29:16 2004
From: jbv.silences at Club-Internet.fr (jbv)
Date: Thu, 05 Feb 2004 12:29:16 +0100
Subject: OT : XML
Message-ID: <40222908.4594D549@Club-Internet.fr>

Hi there,

I'm currently working on a website project for a client
who wants to sell data online.
This guy is very protective (almost paranoid) about his
data, and wants it to be shipped to customers only in the
form of locked PDF files with restricted privileges (low-res
print only, no cursor selection, no screenshots...).
I'm trying to open him to the benefits of XML, and in the
fact that selling re-usable structured data (possibly for a
higher fee) could be a way to approach new markets...

Could anyone be kind enough to point me to a few online
articles on the topic of XML, not so much from a developer's
point of view (I already have plenty of those) but from a
bizness perspective : benefits of structured data, new markets
for structured data, etc.

Thanks in advance,
JB


From frank at backtalk.com  Thu Feb  5 07:12:33 2004
From: frank at backtalk.com (Frank Leahy)
Date: Thu, 5 Feb 2004 12:12:33 +0000
Subject: Setting the window rect and splitter loc in the Variable Watcher
	window
Message-ID: <93FEA3FE-57D4-11D8-A8C6-000A9580FCCE@backtalk.com>

Does anyone know if there's an easy way to get the Variable Watcher 
window to remember its size and the location of the horizontal 
splitter?  I looked in the scripts and didn't see anything obvious (and 
I'm a little loathe to start playing with the rev scripts).

Thanks,
-- Frank


From gizmotron at earthlink.net  Thu Feb  5 09:33:01 2004
From: gizmotron at earthlink.net (Mark Brownell)
Date: Thu, 5 Feb 2004 06:33:01 -0800
Subject: OT : XML
In-Reply-To: <40222908.4594D549@Club-Internet.fr>
Message-ID: <3389B4F4-57E8-11D8-923A-000A95859272@earthlink.net>

On Thursday, February 5, 2004, at 03:29  AM, jbv wrote:

> Could anyone be kind enough to point me to a few online
> articles on the topic of XML, not so much from a developer's
> point of view (I already have plenty of those) but from a
> bizness perspective : benefits of structured data, new markets
> for structured data, etc.
>
> Thanks in advance,
> JB

This is why I originally invented MTML. I needed a simple form of XML 
that could exist inside common text, in this case among HTML. I have 
print and copy restrictions that are set by the publisher for each 
document's page. (see link below) There is no way to stop screenshots 
from being taken by a user of a computer that I know of. In the same 
vain there is no way to stop someone from scanning the page of a 
magazine. So if your client wants the data viewable on a computer I 
guess your client will never be happy.

http://www.gizmotron.org/intuition/pub.html

Mark


From mazzapaolo at libero.it  Thu Feb  5 09:37:55 2004
From: mazzapaolo at libero.it (Paolo Mazza)
Date: Thu, 5 Feb 2004 15:37:55 +0100
Subject: SMS from Rev CGI
In-Reply-To: <a06020403bc47c370e117@[141.89.100.235]>
Message-ID: <E2E06047-57E8-11D8-86BD-000393680A94@libero.it>

Hi Robert,
as far as I know you can not send SMS from a normal email client. Can 
you? So, what other solution?

I guess you can send SMS from Rev to a Mobile phone  provided you 
connected you computer to  a mobile phone. But you should be able to 
send AT commands to the modem of you phone.

The question is, how can we send AT commands from Revolution to the 
modem of a mobile phone connected (let's say) to the USB  port?

Ciao , Paolo


Gioved?, 5 Feb 2004, alle 10:55 Europe/Rome, Robert Brenstein ha 
scritto:

>> Hi guys,
>>
>> I'd like to send SMS to individual mobile phones
>> from a Rev CGI script...
>> Could this be done with libSMPT ? If not, what
>> other solutions ?
>>
>> Thanks,
>> JB
>
> If you can send it from normal email client, then yes, smtpLib should 
> work same.
>
> Robert
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>


From themacguy at macosx.com  Thu Feb  5 09:48:16 2004
From: themacguy at macosx.com (Barry Levine)
Date: Thu, 5 Feb 2004 07:48:16 -0700
Subject: Directory Walker Question
Message-ID: <54CB01FE-57EA-11D8-B052-000A95763ABC@macosx.com>

Below appears the result of "the detailed folders". Both folders and  
the Rev app share the "????????" type and creator, so that's not the  
answer; and as others have pointed out, the ".app" is an optional  
(though recommended) extension.

..,2686,0,1068181796,1075923609,1075991385,0,0,80,775,????????
components,340,0,1053450961,1068206876,1075991385,0,501,80,777,????????
Made+With+Logos,170,0,1053450961,1060874560,1074105299,0,501,80,777,???? 
????
plugins,374,0,1053450961,1075956143,1075991385,0,501,80,766,????????
Revolution.app,136,0,1035550580,1068205493,1074105300,0,501,80,777,????? 
???
Sample+Stacks,374,0,1053450961,1061889616,1075991385,0,501,80,766,?????? 
??

Abraham Wouter suggested something using the shell; I'll visit that  
next.

Seems a bit inconsistent that Rev can recognize an app bundle (as -not-  
a folder)  when you "answer folder" yet, when you want to work without  
user intervention, it stumbles. Probably should be a feature request,  
eh? "Be consistent" (Of course, it may be Apple that can share some of  
this as ".exe" is probably not optional in Windows, eh?)

Other suggestions gratefully appreciated.

Thanks,
Barry


From themacguy at macosx.com  Thu Feb  5 09:59:35 2004
From: themacguy at macosx.com (Barry Levine)
Date: Thu, 5 Feb 2004 07:59:35 -0700
Subject: shell help - ManOpen
Message-ID: <E9B79995-57EB-11D8-B052-000A95763ABC@macosx.com>

This may have been mentioned in a previous digest but it's been so 
helpful for me that I thought it worth repeating.

I'm using a program called "ManOpen" that is simply a reader for the 
"man" pages already on your Mac. Here is a description from it's "help" 
menu item:

ManOpen is a graphical interface for viewing Unix manual pages, which 
are the standard documentation for Unix command line programs, 
programmer libraries, and other system information.  It can open files 
directly or be given titles, in which case it will display the output 
from the "man" command-line program.  An apropos interface is also 
provided, which is basically a quick-and-dirty search of the man page 
databases.

Yes, it prints very nicely, as well. Here is a link to it:  
http://www.clindberg.org/projects/ManOpen.html

Regards,
Barry


From rcozens at pon.net  Thu Feb  5 10:16:04 2004
From: rcozens at pon.net (Rob Cozens)
Date: Thu, 5 Feb 2004 08:16:04 -0700
Subject: Andy's comments and positioning...
In-Reply-To: <51CB81B1-5766-11D8-B69B-000A95DA60FA@adelphia.net>
References:  <C3CC003A39C7D411910F0008C786A64508EED63A@mtvxch12.veritas.com>
 <51CB81B1-5766-11D8-B69B-000A95DA60FA@adelphia.net>
Message-ID: <a05100301bc480e6d690d@[66.52.165.138]>

>>All in all my advice is don't get angry at people who simply can't see the
>>forest for the trees.  As my dad used to say to me:  "Don't tell me.  Show
>>me."

Or as a wise person once said, "Never suspect malice if ignorance is 
a possibility."      :{`)
-- 

Rob Cozens
CCW, Serendipity Software Company
http://www.oenolog.net/who.htm

"And I, which was two fooles, do so grow three;
Who are a little wise, the best fooles bee."

from "The Triple Foole" by John Donne (1572-1631)

From rcozens at pon.net  Thu Feb  5 10:19:14 2004
From: rcozens at pon.net (Rob Cozens)
Date: Thu, 5 Feb 2004 08:19:14 -0700
Subject: Dialogs in library organization
In-Reply-To: <506F3C14-5768-11D8-B3C0-000A9567A3E6@swcp.com>
References: <506F3C14-5768-11D8-B3C0-000A9567A3E6@swcp.com>
Message-ID: <a05100302bc480eef8782@[66.52.165.138]>

>>Taking this one step farther, couldn't all stacks that don't need 
>>to maintain runtime changes to data load from a single copy used by 
>>every workstation?
>
>Would saved and otherwise modified stack files be excluded, then?

Yes, Dar.

In the absence of an arbiter/server a la EPSI-Talk, I don't see how 
they could be included.
-- 

Rob Cozens
CCW, Serendipity Software Company
http://www.oenolog.net/who.htm

"And I, which was two fooles, do so grow three;
Who are a little wise, the best fooles bee."

from "The Triple Foole" by John Donne (1572-1631)

From rcozens at pon.net  Thu Feb  5 10:37:34 2004
From: rcozens at pon.net (Rob Cozens)
Date: Thu, 5 Feb 2004 08:37:34 -0700
Subject: Network and communications questions
In-Reply-To: <674403B6-5776-11D8-971F-003065A72500@earthlink.net>
References: <674403B6-5776-11D8-971F-003065A72500@earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <a05100303bc4812ca6f8d@[66.52.165.125]>

>I am writing a group of programs designed to communicate with each 
>other over a network and wanted to know specifics on the best way to 
>have one program send and receive over a network connection, how to 
>set it up in Revolution, and any other tips and commands that I 
>can't seem to find in the documentation.

Hi Brent,

There is information, including Jan Schenkel's library of Transcript 
socket commands for IPC, available from the revolution_ipc list: 
<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/revolution_ipc>.
-- 

Rob Cozens
CCW, Serendipity Software Company
http://www.oenolog.net/who.htm

"And I, which was two fooles, do so grow three;
Who are a little wise, the best fooles bee."

from "The Triple Foole" by John Donne (1572-1631)

From ambassador at fourthworld.com  Thu Feb  5 11:52:45 2004
From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin)
Date: Thu, 05 Feb 2004 08:52:45 -0800
Subject: Andy's comments and positioning...
In-Reply-To: <4C7BC854-57C7-11D8-B32A-000A95B300EC@wanblizaptan.com>
Message-ID: <BC47B4DD.3CB92%ambassador@fourthworld.com>

Jerry Daniels wrote:

> Maybe there are sales figures and cash flow to back the $99 approach. I
> don't know. Do people convert to more expensive licenses after getting
> a taste for 99 dollars? Do ten times the number of people buy the $99
> version than would have purchased the $995 version? Is $495 best?
> People are buying miniPods for $249 and they have to wait for one! And
> that's an entertainment item--a toy. This is a professional tool--MUCH
> more than HyperCard.

Aiming the marketing message at pros also benefits sales to hobbyists:
while professionals won't touch a tool seen as aimed at hobbyists, every
hobbyist wants to feel they're using a tool capable of professional results.

If the positioning includes reference to how easy Rev is to build with, both
audiences will sit up and pay attention when the focus is on
professional-quality results.

In a noisy world it's hard being heard, let alone understood, so the message
must be well-honed and concise.  It's far easier to elevate the message and
keep it simple than to lower it and explain how you're not really lowering
it.

-- 
 Richard Gaskin 
 Fourth World Media Corporation
 ___________________________________________________________
 Ambassador at FourthWorld.com       http://www.FourthWorld.com


From alex at mindlube.com  Thu Feb  5 12:08:00 2004
From: alex at mindlube.com (Alex Rice)
Date: Thu, 5 Feb 2004 10:08:00 -0700
Subject: Tutorials or instructions on delivering MacOSX apps...
In-Reply-To: <GGEOJBEEGFHLDOFIMMPIIEFLFPAA.chipp@chipp.com>
References: <GGEOJBEEGFHLDOFIMMPIIEFLFPAA.chipp@chipp.com>
Message-ID: <DA24A60C-57FD-11D8-8562-000393C4760A@mindlube.com>


On Feb 5, 2004, at 12:50 AM, Chipp Walters wrote:

> I've seen (and made) some tutorials on building icons for Windows  
> apps. And
> using a utility like Install Creator from Clickteam  
> (www.clickteam.com) is a
> great way to build an installer for Windows.

For Windows I *highly* recommend InnoSetup (it's free too!)  
http://innosetup.com or jrsoftware.org


> But, I've not yet built installers for standalones on MacOSX. Anyone  
> know of
> a step-by-step way to produce and distribute commercial standalones  
> for OSX?

There is no canonical way to do it like there is on Windows (pick  
Installshield, Windows Installer, or a work-alike like InnoSetup)

First install the OS X Dev Tools CD you will get lots of good free  
utilities with it. Here are some concepts I have found useful.

App Bundle's Info.plist
You will probably want to replace the app bundle produced by Runrev.

In the bundle, Info.plist is the file that specifies everything that  
makes an app bundle an app bundle: the Icons filename, Get Info string,  
HelpBook filename, Executable name, Copyright string, etc.

What I recommend is using Project Builder or XCODE to build a hello  
world C app, to get the App Bundle and Info.plist created for you  
exactly how you want it. PB/XCODE has a nice GUI for entering all the  
fields of the Info.plist. Then copy the Rev executable into the new app  
bundle. I'll attach a shell script I use for this purpose.


App Bundle Contents
If you have a lot of files to manage, you can also attach a  
shell-script build phase to the PB/XCODE project which can be used to  
copy files into the app bundle. Or use Drag and Drop to attach files to  
the project so PB/XCODE will put them into the Resources folder of your  
app bundle.


Distribute with DMG
If your app is a single app bundle, or self-contained in a folder, I  
would suggest using a DMG disk image. Although you can use  
DiskUtility.app or CLI tools to create .dmg files, I use the shareware  
DropDMG. DropDMG allows you to attach auto-open flags, and license  
agreement texts to the DMG. See  
<http://mindlube.com/download/files/Slacker-2_1_6.dmg> for an example.

The basic idea with DMGs is they open up and the user can run the app  
from right there (assuming the app doesn't write to it's own folder),  
or the user most likely will drag-drop the app to their Applications  
folder.

It might sound overly simplistic, but it works good and in fact Apple  
uses dmg images to distribute several of their apps.


Icon Composer (in Developer/Applications/Utilities)
Create 4 sizes of icons in Photoshop or whatever, then copy-paste them  
into this app to create a .icns file. Reference the icns file in your  
Info.plist


PackageMaker (in Developer/Applications/Utilities)
This is the "official" Apple installer-maker for MacOS X. It used to be  
tough to use safely and sanely. But if you decide against DMG disk  
images, then look at this. Packages still need to be imaged somehow  
(.sit or .dmg for instance. Packages can also *run scripts* at install  
time, so they are used for more complicated installs where drag-n-drop  
won't work.


Property List Editor (in  Developer/Applications/Utilities)
Edit Info.plist XML files with a nice GUI.


3rd party Installers
If you decided against DMG and against Packages, then there are 3rd  
party installers like WISE, VISE, Stuffit InstallerMaker and others.

----

This shell script takes the standalone output from Revolution, and  
copies it into a custom application bundle I maintain.

#!/bin/sh

#
# build an OSX app bundle for ARC testing.
#

# this is the binary executable produced by runrev
cp  
build/FacilityCa_MacOSX_Standalone/FacilityCalculator.app/Contents/ 
MacOS/Revolution \
     
build/NPSFacCalc/FacilityCalculator.app/Contents/MacOS/ 
FacilityCalculator

# revclips.bundle could go into Resources or Plugins instead, but
# but it works here to
cp -R revclips.bundle \
     build/NPSFacCalc/FacilityCalculator.app/Contents/MacOS

# not using revxml yet
# cp -R  build/Standalone_MacOSX_FacilityCa/revxml.bundle \
#    build/NPSFacCalc/FacilityCalculator.app/Contents/MacOS

# supporting files
cp -R clips-models \
     build/NPSFacCalc/FacilityCalculator.app/Contents/MacOS
# delete emacs backup files
rm  
build/NPSFacCalc/FacilityCalculator.app/Contents/MacOS/clips-models/*~

# supporting files
cp -R data \
     build/NPSFacCalc/FacilityCalculator.app/Contents/MacOS

# unneeded files
rm  
build/NPSFacCalc/FacilityCalculator.app/Contents/MacOS/data/ 
UserData*.rev
rm build/NPSFacCalc/FacilityCalculator.app/Contents/MacOS/data/*~

# launch the app for testing
# open build/NPSFacCalc/FacilityCalculator.app

--
Alex Rice | Mindlube Software | http://mindlube.com


From yoy at comcast.net  Thu Feb  5 12:17:48 2004
From: yoy at comcast.net (Andy Burns)
Date: Thu, 5 Feb 2004 12:17:48 -0500
Subject: Andy's comments and positioning...
References: <BC47B4DD.3CB92%ambassador@fourthworld.com>
Message-ID: <000601c3ec0c$28dc6140$e8e02044@fatal>


----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Richard Gaskin" <ambassador at fourthworld.com>
To: "How to use Revolution" <use-revolution at lists.runrev.com>
Sent: Thursday, February 05, 2004 11:52 AM
Subject: Re: Andy's comments and positioning...


> Jerry Daniels wrote:
>
> > Maybe there are sales figures and cash flow to back the $99 approach. I
> > don't know. Do people convert to more expensive licenses after getting
> > a taste for 99 dollars? Do ten times the number of people buy the $99
> > version than would have purchased the $995 version? Is $495 best?
> > People are buying miniPods for $249 and they have to wait for one! And
> > that's an entertainment item--a toy. This is a professional tool--MUCH
> > more than HyperCard.
>
> Aiming the marketing message at pros also benefits sales to hobbyists:
> while professionals won't touch a tool seen as aimed at hobbyists, every
> hobbyist wants to feel they're using a tool capable of professional
results.
>
> If the positioning includes reference to how easy Rev is to build with,
both
> audiences will sit up and pay attention when the focus is on
> professional-quality results.
>
> In a noisy world it's hard being heard, let alone understood, so the
message
> must be well-honed and concise.  It's far easier to elevate the message
and
> keep it simple than to lower it and explain how you're not really lowering
> it.
>
> -- 
>  Richard Gaskin
>  Fourth World Media Corporation
>  ___________________________________________________________
>  Ambassador at FourthWorld.com       http://www.FourthWorld.com
>


I see I sparked some interest in RR's marketing.

I never programmed in C or Java. I programmed in HyperCard, which produced
quality results but not being a proficient programmer, I loved HyperCard.
All of a sudden I could produce something that I needed, even with it's
limitations.

Revolution is a powerful programming environment. If it was cheap enough to
be available to schools (K-12 and beyond), wouldn't that increase sales by
some factor?

Granted, behind the scenes at RunRev, the cost of experts to produce this
wonderful software may be cost prohibitive at $99.99 for a time, but sales
would eventually overshadow the cost of RunRev's development and advertising
budget, wouldn't it?

I paid for RunRev and didn't blink an eye doing so, as I could afford it,
being retired and a one man band.

How did Sun benefit from Java, giving it away as a free programming
language? It's not an easy language when you're just beginning, agreed. They
had another vision.

Just thinking out loud.

All the best,

Andy




From dsc at swcp.com  Thu Feb  5 12:26:40 2004
From: dsc at swcp.com (Dar Scott)
Date: Thu, 5 Feb 2004 10:26:40 -0700
Subject: Where goes stacks, included stacks and externals?  (was Dialogs
	inlibrary organization)
In-Reply-To: <FLEGJBMJADGKMCHIMFOHOENADPAA.monte@sweattechnologies.com>
Message-ID: <759FACFD-5800-11D8-A7A2-000A9567A3E6@swcp.com>


On Wednesday, February 4, 2004, at 08:42 PM, Monte Goulding wrote:

> Not if you think of the MacOS folder as the application directory. 
> Don't
> forget the application bundle is just a set of folders.

I don't think most users would think of it that way.  It is really 
handy for me, of course.

>> I don't think Revers tend to think of their stacks in OS X apps as
>> necessarily MacOS specific.
>
> That's not what I meant.

My goof.  Besides being the place for executables, MacOS is the folder 
for OS X specific executables.

>
>> So on Windows or OS X or traditional Mac OS or even Linux, where do
>> stacks for development, applications, or part of applications go?
>> Where do externals?  I mean by this, where do folks currently put them
>> and where should they go.
>
> I'm not sure what you mean here.

OK, let me describe the direction I'm going.  Folks can then put me 
right as to the right way to do this.

I'll ignore externals for now, but this is not resolved in my mind 
until externals are integrated into this.

When a standalone starts running its mainstack or I open stack in the 
IDE, it must be able to find supporting library and other design stacks 
(as oppose to preferences and data stacks) and open or start using 
them.  Those in turn might at times need to find stacks for opening and 
start using.

For the application support stacks, there are two levels.  The is the 
shallow user-can-find-and-change-easily level, and there is the more 
embedded level intended to be invisible to the user.  For example, on 
OS X, the first might be peer to (in the same folder as) the .app and 
the latter is down in the bundle.

One might use a splash stack to set up some globala that are used by 
all other stacks (and itself) in creating the path for opening and 
start-using stacks.

Another scheme would be to have all stacks find (create paths for) 
needed stacks based on a location relative to that stack.  That is 
independent and depends only on the path for the stack creating the 
path.  (Stacks might have externals, so there are constraints in 
opening and start-using methods to allow for that.)

Now maybe someone will ask "Why don't you just do it the usual way?" to 
which I respond that I know of no usual way and I make up my own.

So a path is created to find stacks.  It is based on these:
IDE or application?
Platform?  (This might be under "if app")
If app
   Am I app main stack?
   Is desired stack shallow or deep?

Here is an arbitrary layout:

Development:

stacks
    stackFamily
        stack
        stack
    stackFamily
        stack
        stack

In this setup the relative path form one stack to another is 
../stackFamily/stack.

OS X Application:

appfolder
    shallowStack
    myapp.app
       Contents
           MacOs
              myapp
           Resources
              Stacks (?)
                 stackFamily
                    stack
                    stack

So the relative path from the app stack to a shallow stack is 
../../../shalowPath
The relative path from the app stack to a deep stack is 
../Resources/Stacks/stackFamily/stack
The relative path from a deep stack to a deep stack is 
../stackFamily/stack
The relative path form a deep stack to a shallow stack is ... (and so 
on).

On Windows:

appfolder
    shallowStack
    myapp.exe
    Components
      stacks
         stackFamily
             stack
             stack

In the same way there is a path from any stack to another stack.

In this scheme, the relative path from any stack not the app stack to 
any stack not shallow is always ../stackFamily/stack, so that is a 
reasonable default for libraries.

The details are somewhat arbitrary to clarify my question.

This may have to be adjusted to accommodate externals, too.

Dar Scott



From ambassador at fourthworld.com  Thu Feb  5 12:28:09 2004
From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin)
Date: Thu, 05 Feb 2004 09:28:09 -0800
Subject: Andy's comments and positioning...
In-Reply-To: <000601c3ec0c$28dc6140$e8e02044@fatal>
Message-ID: <BC47BD29.3CBA7%ambassador@fourthworld.com>

Andy Burns wrote:

> How did Sun benefit from Java, giving it away as a free programming
> language? 

I don't believe the benefit is monetary. Java is valuable to Sun for
strategic reasons, a major de-facto standard not under Micro$oft's control.

-- 
 Richard Gaskin 
 Fourth World Media Corporation
 ___________________________________________________________
 Ambassador at FourthWorld.com       http://www.FourthWorld.com


From yoy at comcast.net  Thu Feb  5 12:39:21 2004
From: yoy at comcast.net (Andy Burns)
Date: Thu, 5 Feb 2004 12:39:21 -0500
Subject: Andy's comments and positioning...
References: <BC47BD29.3CBA7%ambassador@fourthworld.com>
Message-ID: <001101c3ec0f$04c79880$e8e02044@fatal>


----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Richard Gaskin" <ambassador at fourthworld.com>
To: "How to use Revolution" <use-revolution at lists.runrev.com>
Sent: Thursday, February 05, 2004 12:28 PM
Subject: Re: Andy's comments and positioning...


> Andy Burns wrote:
>
> > How did Sun benefit from Java, giving it away as a free programming
> > language?
>
> I don't believe the benefit is monetary. Java is valuable to Sun for
> strategic reasons, a major de-facto standard not under Micro$oft's
control.
>
> -- 
>  Richard Gaskin
>  Fourth World Media Corporation
>  ___________________________________________________________
>  Ambassador at FourthWorld.com       http://www.FourthWorld.com
>

What was Micro$oft's free alternative to Java that ran on all OS's?

Andy


From rjb at rz.uni-potsdam.de  Thu Feb  5 12:46:53 2004
From: rjb at rz.uni-potsdam.de (Robert Brenstein)
Date: Thu, 5 Feb 2004 18:46:53 +0100
Subject: SMS from Rev CGI
In-Reply-To: <E2E06047-57E8-11D8-86BD-000393680A94@libero.it>
References: <E2E06047-57E8-11D8-86BD-000393680A94@libero.it>
Message-ID: <a06020404bc4831157e29@[141.89.100.235]>

Well, it may be a function of having a mail 
gateway to your celular system. I have rigged 
myself to have sms sent to me by my computer if 
my server stops responding. In order to receive 
these SMS's, I had to enable email service on my 
SMS account (and I pay for each incoming 
email-sms unlike with normal SMS's).

Robert

>Hi Robert,
>as far as I know you can not send SMS from a 
>normal email client. Can you? So, what other 
>solution?
>
>I guess you can send SMS from Rev to a Mobile 
>phone  provided you connected you computer to  a 
>mobile phone. But you should be able to send AT 
>commands to the modem of you phone.
>
>The question is, how can we send AT commands 
>from Revolution to the modem of a mobile phone 
>connected (let's say) to the USB  port?
>
>Ciao , Paolo
>
>Gioved?, 5 Feb 2004, alle 10:55 Europe/Rome, Robert Brenstein ha scritto:
>

From rcozens at pon.net  Thu Feb  5 12:01:30 2004
From: rcozens at pon.net (Rob Cozens)
Date: Thu, 5 Feb 2004 10:01:30 -0700
Subject: Let Rev's Light Shine...or Watch It Go Out
Message-ID: <a05100300bc481e8e3303@[66.52.165.125]>

Hi All,

As the reactions to the Macworld review continue to resonate, I am 
feeling a sense of deja vu (& some worry) as I read suggestions that 
the way to deal with the perceived prejudice against HyperCard, 
XTalks in general, and Revolution by extension is to build the best 
application one can AND TAKE PAINS TO HIDE ITS REVOLUTION ROOTS.
.
IMFO, the reason we are having this discussion today is because so 
many of the people who authored excellent HyperCard applications 
chose to follow that route rather than to confront the data 
processing developer & editorial communities with their ignorance ten 
years ago.

A significant portion of list members are professionals whose general 
experience in the field & technical knowledge is many times greater 
than the critics & that portion of the rest of the dp community that 
is foolish enough to rely on those critics rather than doing their 
own homework.

In my experience, the later usually turn out to be VERY 
unsatisfactory (and often dissatisfied) clients.  However, if you 
want to do business with them, you're going to have to reeducate the 
reviewers first.  It can be done.  I'd love to see Andy placed in a 
position to list the "ambitious" projects that cannot be accomplished 
with Runtime Revolution.

For those of us who would rather choose a non-confrontational stance, 
there is still one thing you can do to fight the legacy of X-Talks 
prejudice:

	DISPLAY THE MADE WITH RUN REV IMAGE ON EVERY APPLICATION YOU RELEASE!

If you run away from the issue and try to hide you applications' 
roots, your efforts can only work against the long-term success & 
acceptance of the platform you use to build that application.

Rob Cozens
CCW, Serendipity Software Company
http://www.oenolog.net/who.htm

"And I, which was two fooles, do so grow three;
Who are a little wise, the best fooles bee."

from "The Triple Foole" by John Donne (1572-1631)

From alex at mindlube.com  Thu Feb  5 13:11:29 2004
From: alex at mindlube.com (Alex Rice)
Date: Thu, 5 Feb 2004 11:11:29 -0700
Subject: SMS from Rev CGI
In-Reply-To: <40220B6E.83BDCF@Club-Internet.fr>
References: <40220B6E.83BDCF@Club-Internet.fr>
Message-ID: <B880D74E-5806-11D8-8562-000393C4760A@mindlube.com>


On Feb 5, 2004, at 2:22 AM, jbv wrote:

> Hi guys,
>
> I'd like to send SMS to individual mobile phones
> from a Rev CGI script...
> Could this be done with libSMPT ? If not, what
> other solutions ?

Is SMS anything like SNPP?

This wasn't with Runrev, but I've used QPage-SNPP for some network 
monitoring <http://www.dartware.com/qpage/index.html>. qpage.org seems 
to be down. My pager provider's email gateway wasn't particularly 
reliable so I used a modem to dialup to the pager company and send a 
text page.

--
Alex Rice | Mindlube Software | http://mindlube.com


From dsc at swcp.com  Thu Feb  5 13:15:28 2004
From: dsc at swcp.com (Dar Scott)
Date: Thu, 5 Feb 2004 11:15:28 -0700
Subject: Let Rev's Light Shine...or Watch It Go Out
In-Reply-To: <a05100300bc481e8e3303@[66.52.165.125]>
Message-ID: <46F263BF-5807-11D8-A7A2-000A9567A3E6@swcp.com>


On Thursday, February 5, 2004, at 10:01 AM, Rob Cozens wrote:

> For those of us who would rather choose a non-confrontational stance, 
> there is still one thing you can do to fight the legacy of X-Talks 
> prejudice:
>
> 	DISPLAY THE MADE WITH RUN REV IMAGE ON EVERY APPLICATION YOU RELEASE!
>
> If you run away from the issue and try to hide you applications' 
> roots, your efforts can only work against the long-term success & 
> acceptance of the platform you use to build that application.

I think this is appropriate in the credits of an about box, but not in 
a splash or in main windows in general.  The use of the logo must say, 
"_I_ made this the way _I_ think _my_customers_ need this using the 
best _tool_ I could find, Revolution."  It should not be placed where 
it seems to say "I poked at Revolution and caused it to make this app 
the way it thought it should be made and I had to live within those 
constraints."

Dar Scott


From mato.kola at wanblizaptan.com  Thu Feb  5 13:24:34 2004
From: mato.kola at wanblizaptan.com (Jerry Daniels)
Date: Thu, 5 Feb 2004 12:24:34 -0600
Subject: Andy's comments and positioning...
In-Reply-To: <BC47B4DD.3CB92%ambassador@fourthworld.com>
References: <BC47B4DD.3CB92%ambassador@fourthworld.com>
Message-ID: <8C13FF0A-5808-11D8-B32A-000A95B300EC@wanblizaptan.com>

Imagine that you have a pie chart with four slices, when you change the 
size of slice 1 you change the size of  slices 2 to 4 as well.

That's the four P's of marketing. I don't think we can talk about the 
Price without talking about the nature of the Product, the way it is 
distributed (Place) and the way it is Promoted.

Discussion of one P changes the other three. If the name changes, the 
way it's promoted, the nature of the product and it's price are 
affected. Here follows some very quick (and not necessarily accurate or 
thoughtful) examples:

EXAMPLE ONE (quick 'n' dirty):

Product: Professional development tool with documentation, support, 
third party add-ons, certification program for dev. and support
Place: web site download; printed docs shipped; support online; site 
for extra dev. tools
Price: $500-1,000; tech. add-ons extra; varying degrees of tech. support
Promotion: online adds; tech mags; sales/pr activities in other tech. 
forums and ours; tech. trade shows; tech. conferences

EXAMPLE TWO (quick 'n' dirty):

Product: development tool for hobbyists with documentation, support, 
third party educational add-ons and templates and curricula
Place: web site download; printed docs shipped; support online; site 
for extra tools
Price: $500 per classroom/99 per student/5,000 per school; educ. 
add-ons included; train-the-trainer for certified support
Promotion: online adds; educ. mags; sales/pr activities in educ. 
forums; educ. trade shows; conferences

  I think this discussion needs to be steered like this by someone at RR.

My 2 cents.

-Jerry

On Feb 5, 2004, at 10:52 AM, Richard Gaskin wrote:

> Jerry Daniels wrote:
>
>> Maybe there are sales figures and cash flow to back the $99 approach. 
>> I
>> don't know. Do people convert to more expensive licenses after getting
>> a taste for 99 dollars? Do ten times the number of people buy the $99
>> version than would have purchased the $995 version? Is $495 best?
>> People are buying miniPods for $249 and they have to wait for one! And
>> that's an entertainment item--a toy. This is a professional tool--MUCH
>> more than HyperCard.
>
> Aiming the marketing message at pros also benefits sales to hobbyists:
> while professionals won't touch a tool seen as aimed at hobbyists, 
> every
> hobbyist wants to feel they're using a tool capable of professional 
> results.
>
> If the positioning includes reference to how easy Rev is to build 
> with, both
> audiences will sit up and pay attention when the focus is on
> professional-quality results.
>
> In a noisy world it's hard being heard, let alone understood, so the 
> message
> must be well-honed and concise.  It's far easier to elevate the 
> message and
> keep it simple than to lower it and explain how you're not really 
> lowering
> it.
>
> -- 
>  Richard Gaskin
>  Fourth World Media Corporation
>  ___________________________________________________________
>  Ambassador at FourthWorld.com       http://www.FourthWorld.com
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>


From rcozens at pon.net  Thu Feb  5 12:31:55 2004
From: rcozens at pon.net (Rob Cozens)
Date: Thu, 5 Feb 2004 10:31:55 -0700
Subject: Where goes stacks, included stacks and externals?  (was
 Dialogs 	inlibrary organization)
In-Reply-To: <759FACFD-5800-11D8-A7A2-000A9567A3E6@swcp.com>
References: <759FACFD-5800-11D8-A7A2-000A9567A3E6@swcp.com>
Message-ID: <a05100302bc482ac31162@[66.52.165.184]>

>Another scheme would be to have all stacks find (create paths for) 
>needed stacks based on a location relative to that stack.

Dar,

Take this one step further by creating a generalized stack search 
handler that will look in several different folders, relative to the 
main app folder and/or in Rev's specialFolderPath locations, until 
the target stack is situated, and you have the startLibrary handler 
that ships with Serendipity Library.

Why allow multiple placement options for libraries & other files?:

1.  Some O/S environments dictate that modifiable files cannot exist 
in the same folder as the application.

2.  Some people might decide to place a library stack inside an OS X 
application bundle to achieve a monolithic structure, while other 
might chose to place the library in the folder containing the 
application bundle so it is visible to the user for replacement 
without opening the bundle itself.
-- 

Rob Cozens
CCW, Serendipity Software Company
http://www.oenolog.net/who.htm

"And I, which was two fooles, do so grow three;
Who are a little wise, the best fooles bee."

from "The Triple Foole" by John Donne (1572-1631)

From mato.kola at wanblizaptan.com  Thu Feb  5 13:37:11 2004
From: mato.kola at wanblizaptan.com (Jerry Daniels)
Date: Thu, 5 Feb 2004 12:37:11 -0600
Subject: Andy's comments and positioning...
In-Reply-To: <8C13FF0A-5808-11D8-B32A-000A95B300EC@wanblizaptan.com>
References: <BC47B4DD.3CB92%ambassador@fourthworld.com>
	<8C13FF0A-5808-11D8-B32A-000A95B300EC@wanblizaptan.com>
Message-ID: <4F89C480-580A-11D8-B32A-000A95B300EC@wanblizaptan.com>

Oops... example two was supposed to be for education market, not 
hobbyists.

-JD

On Feb 5, 2004, at 12:24 PM, Jerry Daniels wrote:

> Imagine that you have a pie chart with four slices, when you change 
> the size of slice 1 you change the size of  slices 2 to 4 as well.
>
> That's the four P's of marketing. I don't think we can talk about the 
> Price without talking about the nature of the Product, the way it is 
> distributed (Place) and the way it is Promoted.
>
> Discussion of one P changes the other three. If the name changes, the 
> way it's promoted, the nature of the product and it's price are 
> affected. Here follows some very quick (and not necessarily accurate 
> or thoughtful) examples:
>
> EXAMPLE ONE (quick 'n' dirty):
>
> Product: Professional development tool with documentation, support, 
> third party add-ons, certification program for dev. and support
> Place: web site download; printed docs shipped; support online; site 
> for extra dev. tools
> Price: $500-1,000; tech. add-ons extra; varying degrees of tech. 
> support
> Promotion: online adds; tech mags; sales/pr activities in other tech. 
> forums and ours; tech. trade shows; tech. conferences
>
> EXAMPLE TWO (quick 'n' dirty):
>
> Product: development tool for hobbyists with documentation, support, 
> third party educational add-ons and templates and curricula
> Place: web site download; printed docs shipped; support online; site 
> for extra tools
> Price: $500 per classroom/99 per student/5,000 per school; educ. 
> add-ons included; train-the-trainer for certified support
> Promotion: online adds; educ. mags; sales/pr activities in educ. 
> forums; educ. trade shows; conferences
>
>  I think this discussion needs to be steered like this by someone at 
> RR.
>
> My 2 cents.
>
> -Jerry
>
> On Feb 5, 2004, at 10:52 AM, Richard Gaskin wrote:
>
>> Jerry Daniels wrote:
>>
>>> Maybe there are sales figures and cash flow to back the $99 
>>> approach. I
>>> don't know. Do people convert to more expensive licenses after 
>>> getting
>>> a taste for 99 dollars? Do ten times the number of people buy the $99
>>> version than would have purchased the $995 version? Is $495 best?
>>> People are buying miniPods for $249 and they have to wait for one! 
>>> And
>>> that's an entertainment item--a toy. This is a professional 
>>> tool--MUCH
>>> more than HyperCard.
>>
>> Aiming the marketing message at pros also benefits sales to hobbyists:
>> while professionals won't touch a tool seen as aimed at hobbyists, 
>> every
>> hobbyist wants to feel they're using a tool capable of professional 
>> results.
>>
>> If the positioning includes reference to how easy Rev is to build 
>> with, both
>> audiences will sit up and pay attention when the focus is on
>> professional-quality results.
>>
>> In a noisy world it's hard being heard, let alone understood, so the 
>> message
>> must be well-honed and concise.  It's far easier to elevate the 
>> message and
>> keep it simple than to lower it and explain how you're not really 
>> lowering
>> it.
>>
>> -- 
>>  Richard Gaskin
>>  Fourth World Media Corporation
>>  ___________________________________________________________
>>  Ambassador at FourthWorld.com       http://www.FourthWorld.com
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> use-revolution mailing list
>> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>>
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>


From dsc at swcp.com  Thu Feb  5 14:21:00 2004
From: dsc at swcp.com (Dar Scott)
Date: Thu, 5 Feb 2004 12:21:00 -0700
Subject: Where goes stacks, included stacks and externals?  (was Dialogs
	inlibrary organization)
In-Reply-To: <a05100302bc482ac31162@[66.52.165.184]>
Message-ID: <6E85219E-5810-11D8-A7A2-000A9567A3E6@swcp.com>


On Thursday, February 5, 2004, at 10:31 AM, Rob Cozens wrote:

> Why allow multiple placement options for libraries & other files?:
>
> 1.  Some O/S environments dictate that modifiable files cannot exist 
> in the same folder as the application.

Right.  I limited my focus on stacks that would not be modified, but 
this provides a more general approach.  A stack should know whether the 
stack it needs is modifiable or not, though.

>
> 2.  Some people might decide to place a library stack inside an OS X 
> application bundle to achieve a monolithic structure, while other 
> might chose to place the library in the folder containing the 
> application bundle so it is visible to the user for replacement 
> without opening the bundle itself.

Right.  I made the distinction of shallow and deep and the using stack 
needed to know.  Your way is better in that it does not need to know.  
I'd look deep first.

Is there a performance impact?

(The subject of the mail I got from you through the list got strange 
accent marks added, somehow.)

Thanks Rob!

Now, if you got Chipp's Really Cool 3D Rendering stack that used Dar's 
Totally Adequate High Precision Decimal Math stack, how would you 
expect to use them?  Just drop them into your folder scheme someplace 
and then 'start using' Chipp's with your general start-using handler 
and assume the math gets loaded?  Chipp's library might not know about 
your cool start-using handler.

Dar Scott





From pevensen at siboneylg.com  Thu Feb  5 14:21:36 2004
From: pevensen at siboneylg.com (Peter T. Evensen)
Date: Thu, 05 Feb 2004 13:21:36 -0600
Subject: Andy's comments and positioning...
In-Reply-To: <001101c3ec0f$04c79880$e8e02044@fatal>
References: <BC47BD29.3CBA7%ambassador@fourthworld.com>
 <001101c3ec0f$04c79880$e8e02044@fatal>
Message-ID: <6.0.1.1.2.20040205132037.01d288e0@SLG_PDC>

You're not thinking C#, are you?   It isn't free and only runs on Windows.

At 11:39 AM 2/5/2004, you wrote:

>What was Micro$oft's free alternative to Java that ran on all OS's?
>
>Andy

Peter T. Evensen
http://www.PetersRoadToHealth.com


From yoy at comcast.net  Thu Feb  5 14:52:37 2004
From: yoy at comcast.net (Andy Burns)
Date: Thu, 5 Feb 2004 14:52:37 -0500
Subject: Andy's comments and positioning...
References: <BC47BD29.3CBA7%ambassador@fourthworld.com>
	<001101c3ec0f$04c79880$e8e02044@fatal>
	<6.0.1.1.2.20040205132037.01d288e0@SLG_PDC>
Message-ID: <001c01c3ec21$e2c0fc00$e8e02044@fatal>


----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Peter T. Evensen" <pevensen at siboneylg.com>
To: "How to use Revolution" <use-revolution at lists.runrev.com>
Sent: Thursday, February 05, 2004 2:21 PM
Subject: Re: Andy's comments and positioning...


> You're not thinking C#, are you?   It isn't free and only runs on Windows.
>
> At 11:39 AM 2/5/2004, you wrote:
>
> >What was Micro$oft's free alternative to Java that ran on all OS's?
> >
> >Andy
>
> Peter T. Evensen
> http://www.PetersRoadToHealth.com

I don't know what C# is. I just asked if Micro$oft had a free programming
language that ran on multiple OS's. vs. Sun's Java.

That's where I enjoy Revolution. HyperCard shoehorned me into only the Mac
community, like Cocoa is to OS/X. To see my software running on windows and
other OS's after so long brought tears of joy to my eyes.

All the best,

Andy


From rjb at rz.uni-potsdam.de  Thu Feb  5 15:44:17 2004
From: rjb at rz.uni-potsdam.de (Robert Brenstein)
Date: Thu, 5 Feb 2004 21:44:17 +0100
Subject: SMS from Rev CGI
In-Reply-To: <B880D74E-5806-11D8-8562-000393C4760A@mindlube.com>
References: <40220B6E.83BDCF@Club-Internet.fr>
 <B880D74E-5806-11D8-8562-000393C4760A@mindlube.com>
Message-ID: <a06020407bc485a382880@[141.89.100.235]>

>On Feb 5, 2004, at 2:22 AM, jbv wrote:
>
>>Hi guys,
>>
>>I'd like to send SMS to individual mobile phones
>>from a Rev CGI script...
>>Could this be done with libSMPT ? If not, what
>>other solutions ?
>
>Is SMS anything like SNPP?
>
>This wasn't with Runrev, but I've used QPage-SNPP for some network 
>monitoring <http://www.dartware.com/qpage/index.html>. qpage.org 
>seems to be down. My pager provider's email gateway wasn't 
>particularly reliable so I used a modem to dialup to the pager 
>company and send a text page.
>
>--
>Alex Rice | Mindlube Software | http://mindlube.com

SMS (which stands for short message service, I believe) is basically 
an email sent from a celular phone to another celular phone. These 
are extremely popular in Europe at least.  Certainly a lot cheaper 
than actually calling, and quite practical to pass short messages.

Robert

From chipp at chipp.com  Thu Feb  5 16:06:50 2004
From: chipp at chipp.com (Chipp Walters)
Date: Thu, 5 Feb 2004 15:06:50 -0600
Subject: Andy's comments and positioning...
In-Reply-To: <000601c3ec0c$28dc6140$e8e02044@fatal>
Message-ID: <ACEELABEAIANJNCEJFMAGEHLIMAA.chipp@chipp.com>

Andy wrote:

> Granted, behind the scenes at RunRev, the cost of experts to produce this
> wonderful software may be cost prohibitive at $99.99 for a time, but sales
> would eventually overshadow the cost of RunRev's development and
> advertising
> budget, wouldn't it?

Nope. I don't believe so. I'm not aware of any single product company which
has sold a professional authoring tool for $99 and survived. I don't believe
sales would 'catch up' as the cost to market to new users would be
prohibitive in the first place.

Sun could afford to do it, because it was for other strategic purposes (just
as IBM now pushes Linux). In both cases, the short term financial needs for
the company were being met through other sources. In the case of RR, it's a
bet the farm strategy to offer it at $99. And I doubt they would make it.

-Chipp



From rcozens at pon.net  Thu Feb  5 15:14:38 2004
From: rcozens at pon.net (Rob Cozens)
Date: Thu, 5 Feb 2004 13:14:38 -0700
Subject: Where goes stacks, included stacks and externals?  (was
 Dialogs 	inlibrary organization)
In-Reply-To: <6E85219E-5810-11D8-A7A2-000A9567A3E6@swcp.com>
References: <6E85219E-5810-11D8-A7A2-000A9567A3E6@swcp.com>
Message-ID: <a05100301bc4850d9f391@[66.52.165.88]>

>Is there a performance impact?

I have not tested the relative performance, nor have I used every 
location: the generality is there because I designed Serendipity 
Library should not box other developers into my way of doing it.

In my designs, a standalone generally starts using all libraries it 
needs on startUp or preOpenStack, so the time taken to determine the 
actual location of the libraries is factored into the "application 
startup delay."

>if you got Chipp's Really Cool 3D Rendering stack that used Dar's 
>Totally Adequate High Precision Decimal Math stack, how would you 
>expect to use them?

I would expect that Chipp's installer would place the components in 
their proper locations and/or the installation instructions would 
address this.

OTOH, Serendipity Library is both translatable and open source; so if 
Chipp's design forces placement of his stack &/or yours in a specific 
folder one could modify the translation of the "PlugIn" or "Data" 
folder names in the messages file; or, if Chipp's design required 
more, change the logic of the library search handler.
-- 

Rob Cozens
CCW, Serendipity Software Company
http://www.oenolog.net/who.htm

"And I, which was two fooles, do so grow three;
Who are a little wise, the best fooles bee."

from "The Triple Foole" by John Donne (1572-1631)

From rcozens at pon.net  Thu Feb  5 15:16:12 2004
From: rcozens at pon.net (Rob Cozens)
Date: Thu, 5 Feb 2004 13:16:12 -0700
Subject: Let Rev's Light Shine...or Watch It Go Out
Message-ID: <a05100303bc4854c5df84@[66.52.165.88]>

Hi All,

As the reactions to the Macworld review continue to resonate, I am 
feeling a sense of deja vu (& some worry) as I read suggestions that 
the way to deal with the perceived prejudice against HyperCard, 
XTalks in general, and Revolution by extension is to build the best 
application one can AND TAKE PAINS TO HIDE ITS REVOLUTION ROOTS.
.
IMFO, the reason we are having this discussion today is because so 
many of the people who authored excellent HyperCard applications 
chose to follow that route rather than to confront the data 
processing developer & editorial communities with their ignorance ten 
years ago.

A significant portion of list members are professionals whose general 
experience in the field & technical knowledge is many times greater 
than the critics & that portion of the rest of the dp community that 
is foolish enough to rely on those critics rather than doing their 
own homework.

In my experience, the later usually turn out to be VERY 
unsatisfactory (and often dissatisfied) clients.  However, if you 
want to do business with them, you're going to have to reeducate the 
reviewers first.  It can be done.  I'd love to see Andy placed in a 
position to list the "ambitious" projects that cannot be accomplished 
with Runtime Revolution.

For those of us who would rather choose a non-confrontational stance, 
there is still one thing you can do to fight the legacy of X-Talks 
prejudice:

	DISPLAY THE MADE WITH RUN REV IMAGE ON EVERY APPLICATION YOU RELEASE!

If you run away from the issue and try to hide you applications' 
roots, your efforts can only work against the long-term success & 
acceptance of the platform you use to build that application.

Rob Cozens
CCW, Serendipity Software Company
http://www.oenolog.net/who.htm

"And I, which was two fooles, do so grow three;
Who are a little wise, the best fooles bee."

from "The Triple Foole" by John Donne (1572-1631)

From yoy at comcast.net  Thu Feb  5 16:47:14 2004
From: yoy at comcast.net (Andy Burns)
Date: Thu, 5 Feb 2004 16:47:14 -0500
Subject: Let Rev's Light Shine...or Watch It Go Out
References: <a05100303bc4854c5df84@[66.52.165.88]>
Message-ID: <002701c3ec31$cedae330$e8e02044@fatal>


----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Rob Cozens" <rcozens at pon.net>
To: "How to use Revolution" <use-revolution at lists.runrev.com>
Sent: Thursday, February 05, 2004 3:16 PM
Subject: Let Rev's Light Shine...or Watch It Go Out


> I'd love to see Andy placed in a
> position to list the "ambitious" projects that cannot be accomplished
> with Runtime Revolution.

Rob,

I'm not a critic. Why are you singling me out?

I'm just a beginner at Revolution and have done some fun stuff. I released
OmniLotto as freeware. It was so much fun to develop. Freeware, no less.
Granted, others could probably bum lots of code but I didn't ask for help.

And as per the license agreement, I included the "Developed with Revolution"
logo as my only credit.

Gimmeabreak!

Andy



From vokey at uleth.ca  Thu Feb  5 16:52:14 2004
From: vokey at uleth.ca (Dr.John R.Vokey)
Date: Thu, 5 Feb 2004 14:52:14 -0700
Subject: Andy's comments and positioning...
In-Reply-To: <20040205211830.A0A3B930256@mail.runrev.com>
References: <20040205211830.A0A3B930256@mail.runrev.com>
Message-ID: <8EDA9682-5825-11D8-BB50-0050E405DB27@uleth.ca>

I don't know about the rest of you, but I always liked Raney's ``You 
know, there's an easier way to do that...''
-- 
John


From ambassador at fourthworld.com  Thu Feb  5 17:03:57 2004
From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin)
Date: Thu, 05 Feb 2004 14:03:57 -0800
Subject: Let Rev's Light Shine...or Watch It Go Out
In-Reply-To: <002701c3ec31$cedae330$e8e02044@fatal>
Message-ID: <BC47FDCD.3CBFE%ambassador@fourthworld.com>

Andy Burns wrote:

> I'm not a critic. Why are you singling me out?
> 
> I'm just a beginner at Revolution and have done some fun stuff. I released
> OmniLotto as freeware. It was so much fun to develop. Freeware, no less.
> Granted, others could probably bum lots of code but I didn't ask for help.
> 
> And as per the license agreement, I included the "Developed with Revolution"
> logo as my only credit.
> 
> Gimmeabreak!
> 
> Andy

I think Rob was referring to Andy Inakto, the reviewer.

No one's singling you out for anything other than a warm "Welcome aboard!"
:)

-- 
 Richard Gaskin 
 Fourth World Media Corporation
 ___________________________________________________________
 Ambassador at FourthWorld.com       http://www.FourthWorld.com


From ambassador at fourthworld.com  Thu Feb  5 17:09:10 2004
From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin)
Date: Thu, 05 Feb 2004 14:09:10 -0800
Subject: Let Rev's Light Shine...or Watch It Go Out
In-Reply-To: <a05100300bc481e8e3303@[66.52.165.125]>
Message-ID: <BC47FF06.3CBFF%ambassador@fourthworld.com>

Rob Cozens wrote:

> For those of us who would rather choose a non-confrontational stance,

...arguaby the only option likely to ultimately yield buy-in.  Confrontation
too often leads to a digging in of heels, rational or not.

Let our actions speak for us.

> there is still one thing you can do to fight the legacy of X-Talks
> prejudice:
> 
> DISPLAY THE MADE WITH RUN REV IMAGE ON EVERY APPLICATION YOU RELEASE!
> 
> If you run away from the issue and try to hide you applications'
> roots, your efforts can only work against the long-term success &
> acceptance of the platform you use to build that application.

I would agree wholeheatedly if tempered to read:

    Display the "Made with RunRev" notice in every About box

This has less to do "hiding" than simply message relevance:

99.99% of my customers and my clients' customers are not software developers
and never will be.  In a noisy world staying on message is critical, and the
About box is a part of the branding message for the developer delivering it.

Adding other graphic treatments confuses the message without providing much
real benefit to anyone (not to mention what it can do to one's color palette
choices).

The good folks at RunRev wisely recognize this, requiring only the text:

   Made with Runtime Revolution
   Portions (c) 2004 Runtime Revolution Ltd.

This is how professinoal development tools and libraries are credited, from
MacApp to THINK C to CodeWarrior.  The folks at RunRev have seen how much
contention was caused by Allegiant's logo requirement, and how many deals
were lost by Director's harsh About box requirements (don't get Chipp
started on that <g>).

The 0.01% of folks looking at my About box to see what I'm developing with
will find what they're looking for easily.

A third-party's About box is a poor substitute for effective marketing, and
just scares off potential customers.

If one really wants to support Rev effectively there's a much more visible
way to do it: consider adding a page at your site offering Rev info, tools,
or even just a description of how your clients benefit from your using Rev.
Your About box only goes as far as you can throw it, but Google is
everywhere....

-- 
 Richard Gaskin 
 Fourth World Media Corporation
 ___________________________________________________________
 Ambassador at FourthWorld.com       http://www.FourthWorld.com


From dsc at swcp.com  Thu Feb  5 17:14:26 2004
From: dsc at swcp.com (Dar Scott)
Date: Thu, 5 Feb 2004 15:14:26 -0700
Subject: Where goes stacks, included stacks and externals?  (was Dialogs
	inlibrary organization)
In-Reply-To: <a05100301bc4850d9f391@[66.52.165.88]>
Message-ID: <A8DA2AF9-5828-11D8-A7A2-000A9567A3E6@swcp.com>


On Thursday, February 5, 2004, at 01:14 PM, Rob Cozens wrote:

> In my designs, a standalone generally starts using all libraries it 
> needs on startUp or preOpenStack, so the time taken to determine the 
> actual location of the libraries is factored into the "application 
> startup delay."

OK.  So in the Chipp & Dar stack example, if Chipp's stack was to be 
friendly to this method, it should check whether Dar's stack is already 
in the libraries before attempting to start using it.

It seems that for you it would be OK if the notes for Chipp's stack 
says you need to make sure Dar's stack is in the libraries before 
using, that it does not start-using it.  Would that be OK for most 
people?  Would most people expect Chipp's stack to find and start using 
Dar's?

>
>> if you got Chipp's Really Cool 3D Rendering stack that used Dar's 
>> Totally Adequate High Precision Decimal Math stack, how would you 
>> expect to use them?
>
> I would expect that Chipp's installer would place the components in 
> their proper locations and/or the installation instructions would 
> address this.
>
> OTOH, Serendipity Library is both translatable and open source; so if 
> Chipp's design forces placement of his stack &/or yours in a specific 
> folder one could modify the translation of the "PlugIn" or "Data" 
> folder names in the messages file; or, if Chipp's design required 
> more, change the logic of the library search handler.

Suppose Chipp supplied Dar's stack with his.

Suppose Chipp's stack was delivered in the Chipp Rendering stack family 
folder and Dar's stack was delivered in the Dar Math stack family 
folder.  Those have the problem of having to be merged into any 
existing folders in the developer's stack folder.  Chipp's stack would 
then need to look for Dar's stack using a relative path like this: 
"../Dar Math/TA HP Decimal Math.rev".

However, if there were no stack families except as one might organize 
for himself, then these would be delivered as simply two stacks and 
Chipp's might simply look for Dar's in the same folder.  As much as I 
like a practice of assuming stack families, this has a nice simplicity 
to it.

All this is moot if it is a common practice to assume libraries are 
'start using' bottom up (library stacks don't start-using their 
required libraries) and the application designer is responsible for 
making sure that happens.  (The bottom-up requirement would not be 
needed if it is common practice to not use required libraries in 
libraryStack messages.)

Dar Scott



From yoy at comcast.net  Thu Feb  5 17:13:56 2004
From: yoy at comcast.net (Andy Burns)
Date: Thu, 5 Feb 2004 17:13:56 -0500
Subject: Let Rev's Light Shine...or Watch It Go Out
References: <BC47FDCD.3CBFE%ambassador@fourthworld.com>
Message-ID: <003b01c3ec35$72997fb0$e8e02044@fatal>


----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Richard Gaskin" <ambassador at fourthworld.com>
To: "How to use Revolution" <use-revolution at lists.runrev.com>
Sent: Thursday, February 05, 2004 5:03 PM
Subject: Re: Let Rev's Light Shine...or Watch It Go Out


> Andy Burns wrote:
>
> > I'm not a critic. Why are you singling me out?
> >
> > I'm just a beginner at Revolution and have done some fun stuff. I
released
> > OmniLotto as freeware. It was so much fun to develop. Freeware, no less.
> > Granted, others could probably bum lots of code but I didn't ask for
help.
> >
> > And as per the license agreement, I included the "Developed with
Revolution"
> > logo as my only credit.
> >
> > Gimmeabreak!
> >
> > Andy
>
> I think Rob was referring to Andy Inakto, the reviewer.
>
> No one's singling you out for anything other than a warm "Welcome aboard!"
> :)
>
> -- 
>  Richard Gaskin
>  Fourth World Media Corporation
>  ___________________________________________________________
>  Ambassador at FourthWorld.com       http://www.FourthWorld.com
>

Judy emailed me about this.

What can possibly go wrong... go wrong... go wrong...

All the best,

Andy Burns


From jacque at hyperactivesw.com  Thu Feb  5 17:38:45 2004
From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay)
Date: Thu, 05 Feb 2004 16:38:45 -0600
Subject: Where goes stacks, included stacks and externals?  (was Dialogs
 inlibrary organization)
In-Reply-To: <A8DA2AF9-5828-11D8-A7A2-000A9567A3E6@swcp.com>
References: <A8DA2AF9-5828-11D8-A7A2-000A9567A3E6@swcp.com>
Message-ID: <4022C5F5.4090801@hyperactivesw.com>

On 2/5/04 4:14 PM, Dar Scott wrote:

> 
> On Thursday, February 5, 2004, at 01:14 PM, Rob Cozens wrote:
> 
>> In my designs, a standalone generally starts using all libraries it 
>> needs on startUp or preOpenStack, so the time taken to determine the 
>> actual location of the libraries is factored into the "application 
>> startup delay."
> 
> 
> OK.  So in the Chipp & Dar stack example, if Chipp's stack was to be 
> friendly to this method, it should check whether Dar's stack is already 
> in the libraries before attempting to start using it.

I am starting to lose track of what we are talking about, but maybe this 
helps: you can start using a stack any number of times, but it only 
actually gets used once. So it doesn't matter who starts to use what when.

The only thing that might make a difference is that each "start using" 
places the used library script in front of any others in use. Multiple 
"start using"s of the same stack can shuffle its position in the hierarchy.

However, if Dar's stack prefaces all its command names with "dar_" and 
Chipp's commands all start with "chip_" then it doesn't matter which 
library is in front, there won't be a conflict.

-- 
Jacqueline Landman Gay         |     jacque at hyperactivesw.com
HyperActive Software           |     http://www.hyperactivesw.com

From hershbp at realtorsgroup.us  Thu Feb  5 17:51:22 2004
From: hershbp at realtorsgroup.us (hershrev)
Date: Thu, 5 Feb 2004 17:51:22 -0500
Subject: Database GUI logic 
Message-ID: <D211399A-582D-11D8-8180-0030654C1E62@realtorsgroup.us>

Hi every one.
What is the best way to select a DB record into a form view window with 
multiple fields ? (not with the db manager ,because I don't want to 
give the user access to the data itself to tamper with, to avoid 
corruption.)
Thanks hershrev


From 3mcgrath at adelphia.net  Thu Feb  5 17:53:25 2004
From: 3mcgrath at adelphia.net (Thomas McGrath III)
Date: Thu, 5 Feb 2004 17:53:25 -0500
Subject: SMS from Rev CGI
In-Reply-To: <B880D74E-5806-11D8-8562-000393C4760A@mindlube.com>
References: <40220B6E.83BDCF@Club-Internet.fr>
	<B880D74E-5806-11D8-8562-000393C4760A@mindlube.com>
Message-ID: <1B035E0C-582E-11D8-AAEE-000A95DA60FA@adelphia.net>

http://www.salcentral.com/x/smsreg.asp

They way they work in any application????


On Feb 5, 2004, at 1:11 PM, Alex Rice wrote:

>
> On Feb 5, 2004, at 2:22 AM, jbv wrote:
>
>> Hi guys,
>>
>> I'd like to send SMS to individual mobile phones
>> from a Rev CGI script...
>> Could this be done with libSMPT ? If not, what
>> other solutions ?
>
> Is SMS anything like SNPP?
>
> This wasn't with Runrev, but I've used QPage-SNPP for some network 
> monitoring <http://www.dartware.com/qpage/index.html>. qpage.org seems 
> to be down. My pager provider's email gateway wasn't particularly 
> reliable so I used a modem to dialup to the pager company and send a 
> text page.
>
> --
> Alex Rice | Mindlube Software | http://mindlube.com
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>
>

Thomas J. McGrath III
SCS
1000 Killarney Dr.
Pittsburgh, PA 15234
412-885-8541


From gbojsza at mac.com  Thu Feb  5 17:54:07 2004
From: gbojsza at mac.com (Bojsza)
Date: Thu, 5 Feb 2004 16:54:07 -0600
Subject: Multiple Open Processes Conflict (Linux)
Message-ID: <344BC656-582E-11D8-A9F8-003065F00EF2@mac.com>

I have to buttons that each start and stop different processes, with 
the output of each process being placed in separate fields.

I also have a field that I can see the processes that Revolution has 
opened and the order in which they were opened.

The problem I have discovered is that I must close the processes in 
reverse order for them to actually stop.

Example if I start process A and then start process B.
Both fields A and B are updated with the process output and the 
processID list shows
process A
process B

When I select the stop button for process A , the output of the process 
A stops but the processID list still shows
process A
process B

(I have confirmed that both processes are running by ps -aux command in 
a shell window.

If I then stop process B then the output of process B stops and both 
processes stop.

But if I do it in the reverse order...stop process B first then the 
output for process B stops and the list shows
process A

And then I can stop process A and its output stops and the list is 
cleared.
(again I confirmed this ps -aux in a shell window)

Is this a bug or do I need to close a process by some other method?

Currently I close the process exactly how it was open

close process "trace -r test"

If using multiple processes do I need to use the kill command (doesn't 
seem graceful?)


From dsc at swcp.com  Thu Feb  5 17:57:17 2004
From: dsc at swcp.com (Dar Scott)
Date: Thu, 5 Feb 2004 15:57:17 -0700
Subject: Where goes stacks, included stacks and externals?  (was Dialogs
	inlibrary organization)
In-Reply-To: <4022C5F5.4090801@hyperactivesw.com>
Message-ID: <A59674C8-582E-11D8-A7A2-000A9567A3E6@swcp.com>


On Thursday, February 5, 2004, at 03:38 PM, J. Landman Gay wrote:

> I am starting to lose track of what we are talking about, but maybe 
> this helps: you can start using a stack any number of times, but it 
> only actually gets used once. So it doesn't matter who starts to use 
> what when.

But what if it is not in the expected location?

Library A' from vender A needs library B' from vender B.  Library A' 
has some notion where B' is and refers to it there.  Developer C puts 
B' in a different location and then makes the developer's app C' start 
using B' and then A'.  Should C expect this to work?

In general, the track goes like this:  What are common styles of stack 
organization that might be considered good practice?  What might a 
library supplier do as good practice to make a library easy to use in 
styles of stack organization?

Dar Scott






From dsc at swcp.com  Thu Feb  5 17:59:32 2004
From: dsc at swcp.com (Dar Scott)
Date: Thu, 5 Feb 2004 15:59:32 -0700
Subject: Where goes stacks, included stacks and externals?  (was Dialogs
	inlibrary organization)
In-Reply-To: <a05100301bc4850d9f391@[66.52.165.88]>
Message-ID: <F614BC0A-582E-11D8-A7A2-000A9567A3E6@swcp.com>


On Thursday, February 5, 2004, at 01:14 PM, Rob Cozens wrote:

> In my designs, a standalone generally starts using all libraries it 
> needs on startUp or preOpenStack, so the time taken to determine the 
> actual location of the libraries is factored into the "application 
> startup delay."

So if a library supplier upgrades the library to use an external and 
two other stacks instead of the old supporting library stack, then you 
have to change library list in the application?

Dar Scott


From pevensen at siboneylg.com  Thu Feb  5 17:57:11 2004
From: pevensen at siboneylg.com (Peter T. Evensen)
Date: Thu, 05 Feb 2004 16:57:11 -0600
Subject: SMS from Rev CGI
In-Reply-To: <a06020403bc47c370e117@[141.89.100.235]>
References: <40220B6E.83BDCF@Club-Internet.fr>
 <a06020403bc47c370e117@[141.89.100.235]>
Message-ID: <6.0.1.1.2.20040205165035.01badec0@SLG_PDC>

My T-Mobile has an email gateway, but not every cell phone provide 
may.  Are you wanting to do this in the US?

Here's a list of international email to SMS gateways: 
http://www.cellular.co.za/email_to_sms_gateways.htm

You might be able to find more.

Found this on the web (for the USA):

>Sprint uses the @messaging.sprintpcs.com
>and Verizon uses the @vtext.com domain.
>
>If you look on all of the websites for the wireless dealers, you will 
>notice the "Send a Text Message" box somewhere on the page. They do that 
>using email carriers. The technology is already in place, which makes it 
>cheaper.


At 03:55 AM 2/5/2004, you wrote:
>>Hi guys,
>>
>>I'd like to send SMS to individual mobile phones
>>from a Rev CGI script...
>>Could this be done with libSMPT ? If not, what
>>other solutions ?
>>
>>Thanks,
>>JB
>
>If you can send it from normal email client, then yes, smtpLib should work 
>same.
>
>Robert
>_______________________________________________
>use-revolution mailing list
>use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
>http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution

Peter T. Evensen
http://www.PetersRoadToHealth.com

From jacque at hyperactivesw.com  Thu Feb  5 18:14:21 2004
From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay)
Date: Thu, 05 Feb 2004 17:14:21 -0600
Subject: Where goes stacks, included stacks and externals?  (was Dialogs
 inlibrary organization)
In-Reply-To: <A59674C8-582E-11D8-A7A2-000A9567A3E6@swcp.com>
References: <A59674C8-582E-11D8-A7A2-000A9567A3E6@swcp.com>
Message-ID: <4022CE4D.70203@hyperactivesw.com>

On 2/5/04 4:57 PM, Dar Scott wrote:

> But what if it is not in the expected location?
> 
> Library A' from vender A needs library B' from vender B.  Library A' has 
> some notion where B' is and refers to it there.  Developer C puts B' in 
> a different location and then makes the developer's app C' start using 
> B' and then A'.  Should C expect this to work?

My opinion: Library authors should not expect their stacks to be in any 
particular location. That should be the stack developer's job. The 
library author should simply annotate any dependencies, and let the 
stack author know that dependent stacks must be put in use.

> In general, the track goes like this:  What are common styles of stack 
> organization that might be considered good practice?  What might a 
> library supplier do as good practice to make a library easy to use in 
> styles of stack organization?

I don't think there is an official established procedure, but I'd put 
all my library stacks together in one folder. When it was loading time, 
I'd set the directory to that folder and start using them.

There is another, perhaps more efficient, way to use libraries though, 
and it is the way used by Revolution itself. Store the libraries as 
button scripts somewhere (in a substack, or a card you never go to, or 
even just invisible on a card somewhere) and insert the scripts into the 
back as necessary. That way you don't need any external stacks at all 
and you get your monolithic build besides. This is the method I tend to 
use. Having lots of external stacks can become hard to manage, and it is 
easy to just pop a script into a button if I know my app will need to 
use it. Another advantage of this method is that you don't need to worry 
about file paths at all.

-- 
Jacqueline Landman Gay         |     jacque at hyperactivesw.com
HyperActive Software           |     http://www.hyperactivesw.com

From monte at sweattechnologies.com  Thu Feb  5 18:22:16 2004
From: monte at sweattechnologies.com (Monte Goulding)
Date: Fri, 6 Feb 2004 09:52:16 +1030
Subject: Where goes stacks, included stacks and externals?  (was
	Dialogsinlibrary organization)
In-Reply-To: <759FACFD-5800-11D8-A7A2-000A9567A3E6@swcp.com>
Message-ID: <FLEGJBMJADGKMCHIMFOHEEOCDPAA.monte@sweattechnologies.com>

> Now maybe someone will ask "Why don't you just do it the usual way?" to
> which I respond that I know of no usual way and I make up my own.

Do you know about the stackFiles property?
>
> So a path is created to find stacks.  It is based on these:
> IDE or application?
> Platform?  (This might be under "if app")
> If app
>    Am I app main stack?
>    Is desired stack shallow or deep?
>
> Here is an arbitrary layout:
>
> Development:
>
> stacks
>     stackFamily
>         stack
>         stack
>     stackFamily
>         stack
>         stack
>
> In this setup the relative path form one stack to another is
> ../stackFamily/stack.

Yep. Seems good...
>
> OS X Application:
>
> appfolder
>     shallowStack
>     myapp.app
>        Contents
>            MacOs
>               myapp
>            Resources
>               Stacks (?)
>                  stackFamily
>                     stack
>                     stack
>
> So the relative path from the app stack to a shallow stack is
> ../../../shalowPath
> The relative path from the app stack to a deep stack is
> ../Resources/Stacks/stackFamily/stack
> The relative path from a deep stack to a deep stack is
> ../stackFamily/stack
> The relative path form a deep stack to a shallow stack is ... (and so
> on).

This is where I think your making things complicated for yourself. Why not
put all your stacks in the MacOS folder?
>
> On Windows:
>
> appfolder
>     shallowStack
>     myapp.exe
>     Components
>       stacks
>          stackFamily
>              stack
>              stack
>
> In the same way there is a path from any stack to another stack.
>
> In this scheme, the relative path from any stack not the app stack to
> any stack not shallow is always ../stackFamily/stack, so that is a
> reasonable default for libraries.

Hmmm... I see now that it's the current DB that is confusing you. And
rightly so. Adding differences between your development folder and your app
folder is a big no no in my book. The Components folder is the breaker here.

My suggestion would be not to use a data folder for the time being. It won't
be long and you'll have a new DB which will transfer your relative paths
properly.

Cheers

Monte


From dsc at swcp.com  Thu Feb  5 18:34:23 2004
From: dsc at swcp.com (Dar Scott)
Date: Thu, 5 Feb 2004 16:34:23 -0700
Subject: Where goes stacks, included stacks and externals?  (was
	Dialogsinlibrary organization)
In-Reply-To: <FLEGJBMJADGKMCHIMFOHEEOCDPAA.monte@sweattechnologies.com>
Message-ID: <D401A4E4-5833-11D8-A7A2-000A9567A3E6@swcp.com>


On Thursday, February 5, 2004, at 04:22 PM, Monte Goulding wrote:

> Adding differences between your development folder and your app
> folder is a big no no in my book.

I'm not _adding_ differences.  They are already there.

Besides, I'm mainly asking a question.

Dar


From dsc at swcp.com  Thu Feb  5 18:52:21 2004
From: dsc at swcp.com (Dar Scott)
Date: Thu, 5 Feb 2004 16:52:21 -0700
Subject: Where goes stacks, included stacks and externals?  (was Dialogs
	inlibrary organization)
In-Reply-To: <4022CE4D.70203@hyperactivesw.com>
Message-ID: <56B33220-5836-11D8-A7A2-000A9567A3E6@swcp.com>


On Thursday, February 5, 2004, at 04:14 PM, J. Landman Gay wrote:

>> But what if it is not in the expected location?
>> Library A' from vender A needs library B' from vender B.  Library A' 
>> has some notion where B' is and refers to it there.  Developer C puts 
>> B' in a different location and then makes the developer's app C' 
>> start using B' and then A'.  Should C expect this to work?
>
> My opinion: Library authors should not expect their stacks to be in 
> any particular location. That should be the stack developer's job. The 
> library author should simply annotate any dependencies, and let the 
> stack author know that dependent stacks must be put in use.

This makes it a lot easier for the library developer, too.

It does put a lot more work on the application developer.  The app 
developer needs to made sure that needed libraries are started and are 
started before all needs.

Assuming externals get resolved in this and this seems to be a common 
practice, I'm happy with this.

Maybe library makers could keep information in properties that can help 
if people want to use it.

>
>> In general, the track goes like this:  What are common styles of 
>> stack organization that might be considered good practice?  What 
>> might a library supplier do as good practice to make a library easy 
>> to use in styles of stack organization?
>
> I don't think there is an official established procedure, but I'd put 
> all my library stacks together in one folder. When it was loading 
> time, I'd set the directory to that folder and start using them.

Do you start using everything in the folder or do you use a list?  Do 
you generate the list by hand?

> There is another, perhaps more efficient, way to use libraries though, 
> and it is the way used by Revolution itself. Store the libraries as 
> button scripts somewhere (in a substack, or a card you never go to, or 
> even just invisible on a card somewhere) and insert the scripts into 
> the back as necessary. That way you don't need any external stacks at 
> all and you get your monolithic build besides. This is the method I 
> tend to use. Having lots of external stacks can become hard to manage, 
> and it is easy to just pop a script into a button if I know my app 
> will need to use it. Another advantage of this method is that you 
> don't need to worry about file paths at all.

Won't this run into the ten backscript limit?
Suppose a library supplier wants to encrypt the library?
What's a good way to insert these?  Explicitly at preOpenStack?
I guess this would not apply to libraries needing menu or dialog 
substacks.

Dar Scott






From dsc at swcp.com  Thu Feb  5 19:07:53 2004
From: dsc at swcp.com (Dar Scott)
Date: Thu, 5 Feb 2004 17:07:53 -0700
Subject: Where goes stacks, included stacks and externals?  (was
	Dialogsinlibrary organization)
In-Reply-To: <FLEGJBMJADGKMCHIMFOHEEOCDPAA.monte@sweattechnologies.com>
Message-ID: <82568C2D-5838-11D8-A7A2-000A9567A3E6@swcp.com>


On Thursday, February 5, 2004, at 04:22 PM, Monte Goulding wrote:

> This is where I think your making things complicated for yourself. Why 
> not
> put all your stacks in the MacOS folder?

I'm trying to be willing.

I guess that willfully going against Apple recommendations is being 
obnoxious and unfriendly.  In other discussion on this list we saw how 
Adobe bundle layout was causing trouble.  That is a black mark against 
Adobe.  Some of the things I do are, um, ah, creative.  I wouldn't want 
those confused with just being contrary.

Besides, isn't putting all the stacks in the MacOS folder contrary to 
the notion of making the delivery stack organization the same as the 
development organization?  What if the development organization is not 
flat?

You have not complained about externals going into 
myapp.app/Contents/PlugIns, at least for the app stack.  Are you 
thinking these should go into MacOS, too?

Dar Scott


From dsc at swcp.com  Thu Feb  5 19:16:33 2004
From: dsc at swcp.com (Dar Scott)
Date: Thu, 5 Feb 2004 17:16:33 -0700
Subject: Where goes stacks, included stacks and externals?  (was
	Dialogsinlibrary organization)
In-Reply-To: <FLEGJBMJADGKMCHIMFOHEEOCDPAA.monte@sweattechnologies.com>
Message-ID: <B8530ECB-5839-11D8-A7A2-000A9567A3E6@swcp.com>


On Thursday, February 5, 2004, at 04:22 PM, Monte Goulding wrote:

>> Now maybe someone will ask "Why don't you just do it the usual way?" 
>> to
>> which I respond that I know of no usual way and I make up my own.
>
> Do you know about the stackFiles property?

Yes.  But I might not be using it right.

There needs to be a way to set this for each target platform copied 
just before the DB runs.  The script for setting this needs to be smart 
enough to differentiate among the different kinds of stacks.  This 
won't work for stacks that go in system dependent folders.

The problem is the nested dependencies of stacks.  I'd hate to fiddle 
with library stacks.

Some people have been suggesting that only the very top level 
starts-using libraries, so this might be done only for the app stack.

Dar Scott








From monte at sweattechnologies.com  Thu Feb  5 19:26:23 2004
From: monte at sweattechnologies.com (Monte Goulding)
Date: Fri, 6 Feb 2004 10:56:23 +1030
Subject: Where goes stacks, included stacks and externals?
	(wasDialogsinlibrary organization)
In-Reply-To: <D401A4E4-5833-11D8-A7A2-000A9567A3E6@swcp.com>
Message-ID: <FLEGJBMJADGKMCHIMFOHIEODDPAA.monte@sweattechnologies.com>

> > Adding differences between your development folder and your app
> > folder is a big no no in my book.
> 
> I'm not _adding_ differences.  They are already there.

Yes... it's the DB doing it. 

From myoung at bigskyneuro.com  Thu Feb  5 20:06:49 2004
From: myoung at bigskyneuro.com (Michael Young)
Date: Thu, 5 Feb 2004 18:06:49 -0700
Subject: Let Rev's Light Shine...or Watch It Go Out
In-Reply-To: <20040205181631.97BCD93025C@mail.runrev.com>
References: <20040205181631.97BCD93025C@mail.runrev.com>
Message-ID: <BDD57F02-5840-11D8-8359-000A956A6E6C@bigskyneuro.com>

> On Thursday, February 5, 2004, at 10:01 AM, Rob Cozens wrote:
>
>> For those of us who would rather choose a non-confrontational stance,
>> there is still one thing you can do to fight the legacy of X-Talks
>> prejudice:
>>
>> 	DISPLAY THE MADE WITH RUN REV IMAGE ON EVERY APPLICATION YOU RELEASE!
>>
>> If you run away from the issue and try to hide you applications'
>> roots, your efforts can only work against the long-term success &
>> acceptance of the platform you use to build that application.
>
> I think this is appropriate in the credits of an about box, but not in
> a splash or in main windows in general.  The use of the logo must say,
> "_I_ made this the way _I_ think _my_customers_ need this using the
> best _tool_ I could find, Revolution."  It should not be placed where
> it seems to say "I poked at Revolution and caused it to make this app
> the way it thought it should be made and I had to live within those
> constraints."
>
> Dar Scott
>
This topic goes on and on. Many people have made worthwhile 
observations, but I would like to add my two cents. Perception of RR is 
the key element for me.

I know customers, who can barely operate a word processor, but they 
dictate the tool that the professional developer uses. For example, 
databases are developed in Access despite it being the wrong tool, etc, 
because that is what the customer wants. It is important to get the 
word out that RR is a professional tool. The problem is MacTech may 
present a nice series of RR articles, but the management yahoo 
controlling projects will never see it. This manager may see articles 
in Macworld and their ilk, however. This same manager might notice in a 
bookstore all the VB, etc. books and since there is no RR book on the 
shelf assume it is not an option. (Don't laugh, I know people who have 
selected Filemaker Pro databases simply because there are FMP books in 
the bookstore and they weren't even the developer.)

It is becoming my perception that RR might have been better to use C as 
its programming language then develop a really slick cross platform 
library GUI, etc. At least then the management yahoo could have his 
project done in C and be happy in his ignorance. (I am not sure the 
write emoticon to use here, so choose one that doesn't upset you.) 
Unfortunately, the management decision makers do not understand the 
tools but they have heard that projects should be done in VB, C++, C, 
Java, and etc..

I have used LabVIEW http://www.ni.com/labview/ that has managed to sell 
quite well into its niche despite not being VB/C++/C, but it had 
hardware business to help get the software in the door. For NI the 
hardware provided the platform for LabVIEWs adoption and then it 
actually became a great way to sell hardware, just like Windows 
provides the platform for Microsoft's monopoly in other areas. I do not 
see that RR has a "platform" to make sure that its software gets in the 
door.

I wish I had an answer for the perception problem because I really like 
RR and I would like to see it succeed in the long term, but I don't 
have the answer.

Michael Y

---
[This E-mail scanned for viruses by CENTRIC INTERNET SERVICES]


From dsc at swcp.com  Thu Feb  5 20:32:23 2004
From: dsc at swcp.com (Dar Scott)
Date: Thu, 5 Feb 2004 18:32:23 -0700
Subject: Compilers?
In-Reply-To: <9545CD24-550A-11D8-BA8E-000A9567A3E6@swcp.com>
Message-ID: <50308953-5844-11D8-A7A2-000A9567A3E6@swcp.com>


On Sunday, February 1, 2004, at 04:01 PM, Dar Scott wrote:

> What compilers are you folks using for what platforms (from what 
> platforms) for making externals?

Windows:  VC++ 6 (have later, maybe...)
OS X:     Project Builder (Xcode in the box, right here)

So these two will change soon.  I'm looking at MPW.  If I had the cash 
or a project that justified it, I'd consider CodeWarrior on OS X 
targeting Windows, OS X and Mac OS.  I assume it can do windows 
externals.

Maybe Compiler should also be read as "development system".

Summary so far:

Compiler & Host        Targets
                        Windows     OS X      Mac OS     Linux    Other
   ----------------   ----------  --------  ---------- --------- -------
Visual C++ 6/7/.net
Host: Windows             3

Project Builder
Host: OS X                          2

Xcode
Host: OS X                          1

C++ Builder
Host: Windows             0                                0
Host: Linux               0                                0

CodeWarrior
Host: OS X                0         0           0
Host: Windows             0         0
Host: Mac OS                                    0

gcc
Host: Linux               0         0           0          0        0
Host: OS X                0         0           0          0        0
Host: Windows             0         0           0          0        0
Host: Other               0         0           0          0        0

MPW
Host: Mac OS                                    0

I guessed at the hosts and targets for C++ Builder and gcc.  I have 
probably goofed elsewhere.

I'm curious if anybody cross targets and whether to multiple platforms. 
  Maybe I can add a column for that.

Dar Scott




From ambassador at fourthworld.com  Thu Feb  5 21:21:43 2004
From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin)
Date: Thu, 05 Feb 2004 18:21:43 -0800
Subject: Let Rev's Light Shine...or Watch It Go Out
In-Reply-To: <BDD57F02-5840-11D8-8359-000A956A6E6C@bigskyneuro.com>
Message-ID: <BC483A36.3CC44%ambassador@fourthworld.com>

Michael Young wrote:

> I know customers, who can barely operate a word processor, but they
> dictate the tool that the professional developer uses.

That's the focus of Geoff Moore's book "Crossing the Chasm", about how
successful software grows by understanding the different personality types
at play in different stages of growth.  Bean counters play an increasing
role as growth moves forward, and the supporting infrastructure (third-party
consultants, tools, books, magazine articles, etc.) indeed plays a key role
in shaping their perceptions.

The economics of books are complex and talked to death here last year.  Dan
Shafer's book is out now, and more will come of their own accord as a
natural by-product of other aspects of infrastructure growth.

The application gallery and consultants listing at runrev.com are both good
starts, but neither is easy to find at the site and the gallery has no
screen shots (critical in our arguably post-literate world).  I suspect the
prominence of both will be enhanced soon.

I'm as guilty as the next person for not posting my many plugins to
VersionTracker, etc., ironically a case where one of Rev's strengths plays
against itself:  other tools that have plugins don't also have a RevNet, so
the onlyway to distribute plugins for those is through Web sites and
download services.  RevNet is so much more convenient for both sender and
receiver, but happens ouside the public view.

But stepping back to view the bigger picture it seems things are quite
promising.  I won't join the doomsayers in suggesting that the technology
hinges on a logo in my About box (however flattering that may be).

Sure, here's always another feature to add and there will always be one more
customer for whom that feature is a deal-maker.

But don't forget that the product as it is today just got a four-star review
and a Mac Eddy award, and has been generating an entire economy of revenue
for its professional developers, their clients, and their end-users for many
years.

Revolution remains the most cost-effective way to deliver professional
quality applications for every major platform.  As long as it stays true to
that goal there's plenty of money floating around to keep it growing
indefinitely.

Heck, this thread got started by niggling over one line in an otherwise
four-star review.  That reviewer also wrote:

   All in all, no other software-development environment packs
   this much power and flexibility into such a simple package.
   You'll have to learn the Transcript language to make the most
   of Revolution, but the system is heroically well documented.
 
-- 
 Richard Gaskin 
 Fourth World Media Corporation
 ___________________________________________________________
 Ambassador at FourthWorld.com       http://www.FourthWorld.com


From scott at tactilemedia.com  Thu Feb  5 21:51:39 2004
From: scott at tactilemedia.com (Scott Rossi)
Date: Thu, 05 Feb 2004 18:51:39 -0800
Subject: Port Question
In-Reply-To: <8A2266CF-5796-11D8-B3C0-000A9567A3E6@swcp.com>
Message-ID: <BC48413B.9A6E%scott@tactilemedia.com>

Howdy List:

Apologies for interrupting the ongoing (and ongoing and ongoing) library
stack discussion -- just wanted to interject a question about
determining/establishing ports for communication using Rev.

What port/address combination would I use to allow multiple Rev apps to
communicate between two different firewalls?  I'm trying to establish some
simple app to app communication for a small game which could be played by
home user types who may have a router with NAT addressing.

After much script wrangling, I was finally able to get Rev to talk itself on
two machines behind *the same* firewall on port 80 (8080).  My extremely
limited understanding of ports and their numbers leads me to believe that
this port is not commonly blocked (though obviously it could be) and is
suitable as a default number (if not, feel free to correct me).

So let's say there are two machines behind the same firewall on one side of
the net, and two machines behind another firewall on the other side.  Do I
need to determine both the public and private addresses of all machines who
want to play, and then somehow combine the addresses into a single string to
address socket messages?  Or do I just need the public address for each
network (which I assume accesses each router) and then assume that messages
sent to port 80 will be forwarded to all machines on that network (who are
"listening" on that port)?

I'm sure this is mundane stuff for you nexperts, but I just want to send
some simple messages back and forth, and I'm getting a headache from all the
number permutations.  Thanks for any suggestions/clarification you can
offer.

Regards,

Scott Rossi
Creative Director
Tactile Media, Development & Design
-----
E: scott at tactilemedia.com
W: http://www.tactilemedia.com


From dsc at swcp.com  Thu Feb  5 22:06:03 2004
From: dsc at swcp.com (Dar Scott)
Date: Thu, 5 Feb 2004 20:06:03 -0700
Subject: Port Question
In-Reply-To: <BC48413B.9A6E%scott@tactilemedia.com>
Message-ID: <6650DED0-5851-11D8-A7A2-000A9567A3E6@swcp.com>


On Thursday, February 5, 2004, at 07:51 PM, Scott Rossi wrote:

> So let's say there are two machines behind the same firewall on one 
> side of
> the net, and two machines behind another firewall on the other side.

It would be hard for peer-to-peer communication to work here.  You 
might consider a third server.

Dar Scott


From sarahr at genesearch.com.au  Thu Feb  5 22:08:25 2004
From: sarahr at genesearch.com.au (Sarah Reichelt)
Date: Fri, 6 Feb 2004 13:08:25 +1000
Subject: Setting the window rect and splitter loc in the Variable
	Watcher window
In-Reply-To: <93FEA3FE-57D4-11D8-A8C6-000A9580FCCE@backtalk.com>
References: <93FEA3FE-57D4-11D8-A8C6-000A9580FCCE@backtalk.com>
Message-ID: <BAE111E7-5851-11D8-8E1C-0003937A97B8@genesearch.com.au>

It drove me crazy that the VW window kept resetting, so I worked out 
this technique: open it up and set it how you would like it. Then hold 
down ALL the modifier keys (Shift, Control, Option & Command) and click 
in the Variable Watcher. From the popup menu that appears, choose 
"Stack & Card" and then choose "Save" from the sub-menu.

Cheers,
Sarah
sarahr at genesearch.com.au
http://www.troz.net/Rev/

On 5 Feb 2004, at 10:14 pm, Frank Leahy wrote:

> Does anyone know if there's an easy way to get the Variable Watcher 
> window to remember its size and the location of the horizontal 
> splitter?  I looked in the scripts and didn't see anything obvious 
> (and I'm a little loathe to start playing with the rev scripts).
>
> Thanks,
> -- Frank
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>
>
>


From jacque at hyperactivesw.com  Thu Feb  5 22:19:11 2004
From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay)
Date: Thu, 05 Feb 2004 21:19:11 -0600
Subject: Where goes stacks, included stacks and externals?  (was Dialogs
 inlibrary organization)
In-Reply-To: <56B33220-5836-11D8-A7A2-000A9567A3E6@swcp.com>
References: <56B33220-5836-11D8-A7A2-000A9567A3E6@swcp.com>
Message-ID: <402307AF.7000508@hyperactivesw.com>

On 2/5/04 5:52 PM, Dar Scott wrote:

> On Thursday, February 5, 2004, at 04:14 PM, J. Landman Gay wrote:

>> I don't think there is an official established procedure, but I'd put 
>> all my library stacks together in one folder. When it was loading 
>> time, I'd set the directory to that folder and start using them.
> 
> Do you start using everything in the folder or do you use a list?  Do 
> you generate the list by hand?

Well, again, I don't really work this way much so it has never been an 
issue. I tend to embed everything as backscripts, or at the most, I have 
one external library. Even then, I tend to want to make the stack 
library into a substack just to make sure it is always available.

But see below. When I start using a library depends a lot on how much 
and when I need to use it.

>> There is another, perhaps more efficient, way to use libraries though, 
>> and it is the way used by Revolution itself. Store the libraries as 
>> button scripts somewhere (in a substack, or a card you never go to, or 
>> even just invisible on a card somewhere) and insert the scripts into 
>> the back as necessary.
> 
> Won't this run into the ten backscript limit?

Yes. I have never needed very many backscripts though. I'm curious what 
you might build where you'd need so many. Since I don't work that way 
I'm having trouble picturing a reason to. Most of my stuff is so 
customized that I rarely need a lot of generic libraries.

> Suppose a library supplier wants to encrypt the library?

Good point. I guess in that case you'd need a substack or an external stack.

> What's a good way to insert these?  Explicitly at preOpenStack?

I usually do it then, or on openstack, or else just before I need to use 
the library. I had a project that worked with XML a lot, and I started 
using a library on preOpenStack because I knew it would be in constant 
use. I had another project where I only needed a library in one 
particular handler, which might or might not ever run, so in that case I 
checked the stacks in use at the top of the handler; if it wasn't in 
use, I started using it.

> I guess this would not apply to libraries needing menu or dialog substacks.

True.

-- 
Jacqueline Landman Gay         |     jacque at hyperactivesw.com
HyperActive Software           |     http://www.hyperactivesw.com

From chipp at chipp.com  Thu Feb  5 22:43:40 2004
From: chipp at chipp.com (Chipp Walters)
Date: Thu, 5 Feb 2004 21:43:40 -0600
Subject: Let Rev's Light Shine...or Watch It Go Out
In-Reply-To: <002701c3ec31$cedae330$e8e02044@fatal>
Message-ID: <GGEOJBEEGFHLDOFIMMPIKEIDFPAA.chipp@chipp.com>

Hi Andy,

Yes, the title of my origianl post:
"Andy's comments and positioning" was referring to the author of the
MacWorld article, who's first name also is Andy. Sorry for the
misunderstanding :-)

best,

Chipp

> -----Original Message-----
> From: use-revolution-bounces at lists.runrev.com
> [mailto:use-revolution-bounces at lists.runrev.com]On Behalf Of Andy Burns
> Sent: Thursday, February 05, 2004 3:47 PM
> To: How to use Revolution
> Subject: Re: Let Rev's Light Shine...or Watch It Go Out
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Rob Cozens" <rcozens at pon.net>
> To: "How to use Revolution" <use-revolution at lists.runrev.com>
> Sent: Thursday, February 05, 2004 3:16 PM
> Subject: Let Rev's Light Shine...or Watch It Go Out
>
>
> > I'd love to see Andy placed in a
> > position to list the "ambitious" projects that cannot be accomplished
> > with Runtime Revolution.
>
> Rob,
>
> I'm not a critic. Why are you singling me out?
>
> I'm just a beginner at Revolution and have done some fun stuff. I released
> OmniLotto as freeware. It was so much fun to develop. Freeware, no less.
> Granted, others could probably bum lots of code but I didn't ask for help.
>
> And as per the license agreement, I included the "Developed with
> Revolution"
> logo as my only credit.
>
> Gimmeabreak!
>
> Andy
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>



From chipp at chipp.com  Thu Feb  5 22:43:41 2004
From: chipp at chipp.com (Chipp Walters)
Date: Thu, 5 Feb 2004 21:43:41 -0600
Subject: Where goes stacks, included stacks and externals?  (was
	Dialogsinlibrary organization)
In-Reply-To: <A59674C8-582E-11D8-A7A2-000A9567A3E6@swcp.com>
Message-ID: <GGEOJBEEGFHLDOFIMMPIMEIDFPAA.chipp@chipp.com>

Hi Dar,

I think it's up to the developer to link libraries during the development
phase, and to distribute the application with the linked libraries in the
order which works best for him/her.

BTW, when you get a chance, can you email me a copy of Chipp's really cool
3D render stack? I would love to see it! ;-) (also include your high
precision math stack if you don't mind)

best,

Chipp



From chipp at chipp.com  Thu Feb  5 22:57:06 2004
From: chipp at chipp.com (Chipp Walters)
Date: Thu, 5 Feb 2004 21:57:06 -0600
Subject: Tutorials or instructions on delivering MacOSX apps...
In-Reply-To: <DA24A60C-57FD-11D8-8562-000393C4760A@mindlube.com>
Message-ID: <GGEOJBEEGFHLDOFIMMPIKEIFFPAA.chipp@chipp.com>

Alex,

Thanks for the info. Great stuff. Now if only I could understand any of it
;-) Not to worry, I'll bang around and ask questions.

Who said Macs were easier? Not when it comes to compiling and delivering
apps! (<--WARNING: OBVIOUS TROLL)

Is it possible to edit the app bundle info.plist file with a text editor? I
don't think I want to build a "hello world" C app as then I'd have to learn
yet another IDE. Hey anyone, how 'bout making a Rev app do to all of this
stuff automatically?

best,

Chipp


> -----Original Message-----
> From: use-revolution-bounces at lists.runrev.com
> [mailto:use-revolution-bounces at lists.runrev.com]On Behalf Of Alex Rice
> Sent: Thursday, February 05, 2004 11:08 AM
> To: How to use Revolution
> Subject: Re: Tutorials or instructions on delivering MacOSX apps...
>
>
>
> On Feb 5, 2004, at 12:50 AM, Chipp Walters wrote:
>
> > I've seen (and made) some tutorials on building icons for Windows
> > apps. And
> > using a utility like Install Creator from Clickteam
> > (www.clickteam.com) is a
> > great way to build an installer for Windows.
>
> For Windows I *highly* recommend InnoSetup (it's free too!)
> http://innosetup.com or jrsoftware.org
>
>
> > But, I've not yet built installers for standalones on MacOSX. Anyone
> > know of
> > a step-by-step way to produce and distribute commercial standalones
> > for OSX?
>
> There is no canonical way to do it like there is on Windows (pick
> Installshield, Windows Installer, or a work-alike like InnoSetup)
>
> First install the OS X Dev Tools CD you will get lots of good free
> utilities with it. Here are some concepts I have found useful.
>
> App Bundle's Info.plist
> You will probably want to replace the app bundle produced by Runrev.
>
> In the bundle, Info.plist is the file that specifies everything that
> makes an app bundle an app bundle: the Icons filename, Get Info string,
> HelpBook filename, Executable name, Copyright string, etc.
>
> What I recommend is using Project Builder or XCODE to build a hello
> world C app, to get the App Bundle and Info.plist created for you
> exactly how you want it. PB/XCODE has a nice GUI for entering all the
> fields of the Info.plist. Then copy the Rev executable into the new app
> bundle. I'll attach a shell script I use for this purpose.
>
>
> App Bundle Contents
> If you have a lot of files to manage, you can also attach a
> shell-script build phase to the PB/XCODE project which can be used to
> copy files into the app bundle. Or use Drag and Drop to attach files to
> the project so PB/XCODE will put them into the Resources folder of your
> app bundle.
>
>
> Distribute with DMG
> If your app is a single app bundle, or self-contained in a folder, I
> would suggest using a DMG disk image. Although you can use
> DiskUtility.app or CLI tools to create .dmg files, I use the shareware
> DropDMG. DropDMG allows you to attach auto-open flags, and license
> agreement texts to the DMG. See
> <http://mindlube.com/download/files/Slacker-2_1_6.dmg> for an example.
>
> The basic idea with DMGs is they open up and the user can run the app
> from right there (assuming the app doesn't write to it's own folder),
> or the user most likely will drag-drop the app to their Applications
> folder.
>
> It might sound overly simplistic, but it works good and in fact Apple
> uses dmg images to distribute several of their apps.
>
>
> Icon Composer (in Developer/Applications/Utilities)
> Create 4 sizes of icons in Photoshop or whatever, then copy-paste them
> into this app to create a .icns file. Reference the icns file in your
> Info.plist
>
>
> PackageMaker (in Developer/Applications/Utilities)
> This is the "official" Apple installer-maker for MacOS X. It used to be
> tough to use safely and sanely. But if you decide against DMG disk
> images, then look at this. Packages still need to be imaged somehow
> (.sit or .dmg for instance. Packages can also *run scripts* at install
> time, so they are used for more complicated installs where drag-n-drop
> won't work.
>
>
> Property List Editor (in  Developer/Applications/Utilities)
> Edit Info.plist XML files with a nice GUI.
>
>
> 3rd party Installers
> If you decided against DMG and against Packages, then there are 3rd
> party installers like WISE, VISE, Stuffit InstallerMaker and others.
>
> ----
>
> This shell script takes the standalone output from Revolution, and
> copies it into a custom application bundle I maintain.
>
> #!/bin/sh
>
> #
> # build an OSX app bundle for ARC testing.
> #
>
> # this is the binary executable produced by runrev
> cp
> build/FacilityCa_MacOSX_Standalone/FacilityCalculator.app/Contents/
> MacOS/Revolution \
>
> build/NPSFacCalc/FacilityCalculator.app/Contents/MacOS/
> FacilityCalculator
>
> # revclips.bundle could go into Resources or Plugins instead, but
> # but it works here to
> cp -R revclips.bundle \
>      build/NPSFacCalc/FacilityCalculator.app/Contents/MacOS
>
> # not using revxml yet
> # cp -R  build/Standalone_MacOSX_FacilityCa/revxml.bundle \
> #    build/NPSFacCalc/FacilityCalculator.app/Contents/MacOS
>
> # supporting files
> cp -R clips-models \
>      build/NPSFacCalc/FacilityCalculator.app/Contents/MacOS
> # delete emacs backup files
> rm
> build/NPSFacCalc/FacilityCalculator.app/Contents/MacOS/clips-models/*~
>
> # supporting files
> cp -R data \
>      build/NPSFacCalc/FacilityCalculator.app/Contents/MacOS
>
> # unneeded files
> rm
> build/NPSFacCalc/FacilityCalculator.app/Contents/MacOS/data/
> UserData*.rev
> rm build/NPSFacCalc/FacilityCalculator.app/Contents/MacOS/data/*~
>
> # launch the app for testing
> # open build/NPSFacCalc/FacilityCalculator.app
>
> --
> Alex Rice | Mindlube Software | http://mindlube.com
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>



From monte at sweattechnologies.com  Thu Feb  5 23:01:10 2004
From: monte at sweattechnologies.com (Monte Goulding)
Date: Fri, 6 Feb 2004 14:31:10 +1030
Subject: Tutorials or instructions on delivering MacOSX apps...
In-Reply-To: <GGEOJBEEGFHLDOFIMMPIKEIFFPAA.chipp@chipp.com>
Message-ID: <FLEGJBMJADGKMCHIMFOHIEOIDPAA.monte@sweattechnologies.com>

 Hey anyone, how 'bout making a Rev app do to all of this
> stuff automatically?

The Distribution Builder already does all this stuff automatically.

Cheers

Monte

From myoung at bigskyneuro.com  Thu Feb  5 23:16:59 2004
From: myoung at bigskyneuro.com (Michael Young)
Date: Thu, 5 Feb 2004 21:16:59 -0700
Subject: Let Rev's Light Shine...or Watch It Go Out
In-Reply-To: <20040206034443.01F5C930289@mail.runrev.com>
References: <20040206034443.01F5C930289@mail.runrev.com>
Message-ID: <4EDD1DA7-585B-11D8-AA38-000A956A6E6C@bigskyneuro.com>

> Richard Gaskin wrote:
>
> That's the focus of Geoff Moore's book "Crossing the Chasm", about how
> successful software grows by understanding the different personality 
> types
> at play in different stages of growth.
I will check out the book.

> Bean counters play an increasing
> role as growth moves forward, and the supporting infrastructure 
> (third-party
> consultants, tools, books, magazine articles, etc.) indeed plays a key 
> role
> in shaping their perceptions.
Agreed.

<clipped other useful stuff.>

> Heck, this thread got started by niggling over one line in an otherwise
> four-star review.  That reviewer also wrote:
>
>    All in all, no other software-development environment packs
>    this much power and flexibility into such a simple package.
>    You'll have to learn the Transcript language to make the most
>    of Revolution, but the system is heroically well documented.
Yeah, I know the review was good, but one always hope for fully 
enlightened reviews. I should know better because I have submitted peer 
review journal papers and had one reviewer want to publish it and 
another not understand it to the point of asking questions that were 
directly answered in the paper! Unfortunately, the flip side of not 
fully informed reviews is that the authors come with a clear bias. For 
example, I have seen plenty of computer/programmer articles where the 
reviewer was not far removed financially etc from the product being 
reviewed. Oh well.

Later,

Michael Y

---
[This E-mail scanned for viruses by CENTRIC INTERNET SERVICES]


From xslaugh at hotmail.com  Thu Feb  5 23:55:04 2004
From: xslaugh at hotmail.com (Scott Slaugh)
Date: Thu, 5 Feb 2004 21:55:04 -0700
Subject: Port Question
References: <BC48413B.9A6E%scott@tactilemedia.com>
Message-ID: <BAY1-DAV20VQpNu3Lc30000a4ec@hotmail.com>

> After much script wrangling, I was finally able to get Rev to talk itself
on
> two machines behind *the same* firewall on port 80 (8080).  My extremely
> limited understanding of ports and their numbers leads me to believe that
> this port is not commonly blocked (though obviously it could be) and is
> suitable as a default number (if not, feel free to correct me).

Most people don't block port 80, since it is used for web browsing.


> So let's say there are two machines behind the same firewall on one side
of
> the net, and two machines behind another firewall on the other side.  Do I
> need to determine both the public and private addresses of all machines
who
> want to play, and then somehow combine the addresses into a single string
to
> address socket messages?  Or do I just need the public address for each
> network (which I assume accesses each router) and then assume that
messages
> sent to port 80 will be forwarded to all machines on that network (who are
> "listening" on that port)?

You might just want to try out sending messages between machines behind
different firewalls.  However, although I'm not exactly sure how these
things work, I am inclined to say that you wouldn't be able to just send the
messages to the router.  I believe that most routers will just drop requests
if they can't figure out where they are supposed to go.  I think that you
would need to set up a process called port forwarding on the router, where
you tell the router to send requests for a specific port to a certain
computer on the network.  But, once again, I'm not entirely sure how
firewalls/routers work.

Scott Slaugh

From monte at sweattechnologies.com  Thu Feb  5 19:31:02 2004
From: monte at sweattechnologies.com (Monte Goulding)
Date: Fri, 6 Feb 2004 11:01:02 +1030
Subject: Where goes stacks, included stacks and externals?
	(wasDialogsinlibrary organization)
In-Reply-To: <82568C2D-5838-11D8-A7A2-000A9567A3E6@swcp.com>
Message-ID: <FLEGJBMJADGKMCHIMFOHAEOEDPAA.monte@sweattechnologies.com>

> > This is where I think your making things complicated for yourself. Why
> > not
> > put all your stacks in the MacOS folder?
>
> I'm trying to be willing.
>
> I guess that willfully going against Apple recommendations is being
> obnoxious and unfriendly.  In other discussion on this list we saw how
> Adobe bundle layout was causing trouble.  That is a black mark against
> Adobe.  Some of the things I do are, um, ah, creative.  I wouldn't want
> those confused with just being contrary.
>
> Besides, isn't putting all the stacks in the MacOS folder contrary to
> the notion of making the delivery stack organization the same as the
> development organization?  What if the development organization is not
> flat?

You can have sub-directories in the MacOS folder.
>
> You have not complained about externals going into
> myapp.app/Contents/PlugIns, at least for the app stack.  Are you
> thinking these should go into MacOS, too?
>

The description of the PlugIns directory is for dynamic loading bundles. I
don't think externals fit into this category. I guess if you liked them to
stacks that you dynamically loaded then they could be...

Cheers

Monte


From monte at sweattechnologies.com  Thu Feb  5 19:31:07 2004
From: monte at sweattechnologies.com (Monte Goulding)
Date: Fri, 6 Feb 2004 11:01:07 +1030
Subject: Where goes stacks, included stacks and externals?
	(wasDialogsinlibrary organization)
In-Reply-To: <B8530ECB-5839-11D8-A7A2-000A9567A3E6@swcp.com>
Message-ID: <FLEGJBMJADGKMCHIMFOHCEOEDPAA.monte@sweattechnologies.com>


> >> Now maybe someone will ask "Why don't you just do it the usual way?" 
> >> to
> >> which I respond that I know of no usual way and I make up my own.
> >
> > Do you know about the stackFiles property?
> 
> Yes.  But I might not be using it right.
> 
> There needs to be a way to set this for each target platform copied 
> just before the DB runs.  The script for setting this needs to be smart 
> enough to differentiate among the different kinds of stacks.  This 
> won't work for stacks that go in system dependent folders.

The current DB does set the stackFiles at build time.

Cheers

Monte

From alex at mindlube.com  Fri Feb  6 00:16:34 2004
From: alex at mindlube.com (Alex Rice)
Date: Thu, 5 Feb 2004 22:16:34 -0700
Subject: Tutorials or instructions on delivering MacOSX apps...
In-Reply-To: <FLEGJBMJADGKMCHIMFOHIEOIDPAA.monte@sweattechnologies.com>
References: <FLEGJBMJADGKMCHIMFOHIEOIDPAA.monte@sweattechnologies.com>
Message-ID: <A164AF8A-5863-11D8-A9C9-000393C4760A@mindlube.com>


On Feb 5, 2004, at 9:01 PM, Monte Goulding wrote:

>  Hey anyone, how 'bout making a Rev app do to all of this
>> stuff automatically?
>
> The Distribution Builder already does all this stuff automatically.

Yes, but it does weird stuff- or used to at any rate: Like naming the 
executable "Revolution", and having the wrong (runrev's) copyright 
information. There are also many keys than can be in Info.plist that 
the Distribution Builder doesn't know about.

Chipp: Info.plist is just an XML file. Edit freely. Check out 
developer.apple.com for comprehensive docs about application bundles 
and what keys are allowed in Info.plist

--
Alex Rice | Mindlube Software | http://mindlube.com


From scott at tactilemedia.com  Fri Feb  6 00:31:26 2004
From: scott at tactilemedia.com (Scott Rossi)
Date: Thu, 05 Feb 2004 21:31:26 -0800
Subject: Port Question
In-Reply-To: <BAY1-DAV20VQpNu3Lc30000a4ec@hotmail.com>
Message-ID: <BC4866AE.9A93%scott@tactilemedia.com>

>> So let's say there are two machines behind the same firewall on one side
>> of the net, and two machines behind another firewall on the other side.  Do I
>> need to determine both the public and private addresses of all machines
>> who want to play, and then somehow combine the addresses into a single string
>> to address socket messages?  Or do I just need the public address for each
>> network (which I assume accesses each router) and then assume that
>> messages sent to port 80 will be forwarded to all machines on that network
>> (who are "listening" on that port)?
> 
> You might just want to try out sending messages between machines behind
> different firewalls.  However, although I'm not exactly sure how these
> things work, I am inclined to say that you wouldn't be able to just send the
> messages to the router.  I believe that most routers will just drop requests
> if they can't figure out where they are supposed to go.  I think that you
> would need to set up a process called port forwarding on the router, where
> you tell the router to send requests for a specific port to a certain
> computer on the network.  But, once again, I'm not entirely sure how
> firewalls/routers work.

All the routers I've owned allow you to assign one system on the network a
DMZ (demilitarized zone) address which I believe allows pretty much any
traffic in and out.  Maybe this is what has to be set up by the game
players.

Thanks & Regards,

Scott Rossi
Creative Director
Tactile Media, Development & Design
-----
E: scott at tactilemedia.com
W: http://www.tactilemedia.com


From monte at sweattechnologies.com  Fri Feb  6 00:42:21 2004
From: monte at sweattechnologies.com (Monte Goulding)
Date: Fri, 6 Feb 2004 16:12:21 +1030
Subject: Tutorials or instructions on delivering MacOSX apps...
In-Reply-To: <A164AF8A-5863-11D8-A9C9-000393C4760A@mindlube.com>
Message-ID: <FLEGJBMJADGKMCHIMFOHEEOLDPAA.monte@sweattechnologies.com>

> >  Hey anyone, how 'bout making a Rev app do to all of this
> >> stuff automatically?
> >
> > The Distribution Builder already does all this stuff automatically.
>
> Yes, but it does weird stuff- or used to at any rate: Like naming the
> executable "Revolution",
I can change this right now... ;-)

and having the wrong (runrev's) copyright
> information.
Under what circumstances? Perhaps if you've left them empty?

There are also many keys than can be in Info.plist that
> the Distribution Builder doesn't know about.
What do you need that the Distribution Builder doesn't know about?

>
> Chipp: Info.plist is just an XML file. Edit freely. Check out
> developer.apple.com for comprehensive docs about application bundles
> and what keys are allowed in Info.plist

Yep it's easy to edit it in the PLIST editor or a text editor. In some cases
you may need to set keys that the DB doesn't know about as identified above.
In most cases you shouldn't need to though.

Cheers

Monte


From sarahr at genesearch.com.au  Fri Feb  6 00:52:44 2004
From: sarahr at genesearch.com.au (Sarah Reichelt)
Date: Fri, 6 Feb 2004 15:52:44 +1000
Subject: [ANN] POP library released
Message-ID: <AF3E6023-5868-11D8-8E1C-0003937A97B8@genesearch.com.au>

Hi All,

After many promises and delays, I have finally completed my POP 
library, now available at http://www.troz.net/Rev/
To quote from the blurb on my web page:

"A library of handlers for communicating with a POP3 server for 
receiving emails. It connects using your user name & password, 
retrieves the number of waiting emails, then offers you various options 
to read details, download the entire email, extract data from the email 
and delete it from the server, before disconnecting. Comes with a demo 
stack which shows how to use the library."

To those of you who requested an advance copy, please trash it and 
start using this one instead. It is much more stable and accommodates 
well to server failures, disconnections, errors, bad logins etc.

For the first time I have also added a PayPal donation button to my 
page, so if anyone finds one of my stacks a real time-saver, please 
consider making a small donation.

Cheers,
Sarah
sarahr at genesearch.com.au
http://www.troz.net/Rev/

P.S. My apologies to anyone who feels such a plug to be inappropriate 
to this list, but I had promised early testers that I would announce 
the release version in this way.


From stephenREVOLUTION at barncard.com  Fri Feb  6 00:52:51 2004
From: stephenREVOLUTION at barncard.com (Stephen Quinn Barncard)
Date: Thu, 5 Feb 2004 21:52:51 -0800
Subject: Port Question
Message-ID: <p0602040abc48da196d66@[192.168.1.100]>

This is called IP Tunneling. You can designate your outside world IP 
to map any port number to any one local IP number/machine. This is 
done with the router software. On Lynksys and many other routers they 
are web based.

Different port numbers can go to one machine or several, but only one 
port of that number can be seen by the outside world, where the 
router looks like one computer. In other words, you can only have one 
default numbered http server, one ftp server, one real server, etc 
that is visible to the outside world.

sqb

>
>All the routers I've owned allow you to assign one system on the network a
>DMZ (demilitarized zone) address which I believe allows pretty much any
>traffic in and out.  Maybe this is what has to be set up by the game
>players.
>
>Thanks & Regards,
>
>Scott Rossi

From alex at mindlube.com  Fri Feb  6 01:43:42 2004
From: alex at mindlube.com (Alex Rice)
Date: Thu, 5 Feb 2004 23:43:42 -0700
Subject: Tutorials or instructions on delivering MacOSX apps...
In-Reply-To: <FLEGJBMJADGKMCHIMFOHEEOLDPAA.monte@sweattechnologies.com>
References: <FLEGJBMJADGKMCHIMFOHEEOLDPAA.monte@sweattechnologies.com>
Message-ID: <CD87DFD9-586F-11D8-A9C9-000393C4760A@mindlube.com>


On Feb 5, 2004, at 10:42 PM, Monte Goulding wrote:
>> Yes, but it does weird stuff- or used to at any rate: Like naming the
>> executable "Revolution",
> I can change this right now... ;-)

That's an important one because if the app crashes, then the crash 
report will say "Revolution" and the user will be confused. 
CFBundleName can make MacOS display a different name than the 
executable name, but it's best to just name the executable correctly I 
think.

> and having the wrong (runrev's) copyright
>> information.
> Under what circumstances? Perhaps if you've left them empty?

That could be it- not sure.

> There are also many keys than can be in Info.plist that
>> the Distribution Builder doesn't know about.
> What do you need that the Distribution Builder doesn't know about?

I'm not sure if anything should be added to DB. It could get 
overwhelming for the user.

Personally: CFBundleIdentifier would be good to have. I thought it was 
important but I forget why. CFBundleHelpBookName and 
CFBundleHelpBookFolder are useful if you want your app's html help to 
show up in Help Viewer's library of apps. There are dozens of possible 
keys in the Info.plist; they get really obscure though. I bet the set 
that DB currently has is good for 90% of apps.
>
> Yep it's easy to edit it in the PLIST editor or a text editor. In some 
> cases
> you may need to set keys that the DB doesn't know about as identified 
> above.
> In most cases you shouldn't need to though.

And don't forget Property List Editor in the Developer/Applications 
folder.

--
Alex Rice | Mindlube Software | http://mindlube.com


From alex at mindlube.com  Fri Feb  6 01:45:01 2004
From: alex at mindlube.com (Alex Rice)
Date: Thu, 5 Feb 2004 23:45:01 -0700
Subject: Tutorials or instructions on delivering MacOSX apps...
In-Reply-To: <CD87DFD9-586F-11D8-A9C9-000393C4760A@mindlube.com>
References: <FLEGJBMJADGKMCHIMFOHEEOLDPAA.monte@sweattechnologies.com>
	<CD87DFD9-586F-11D8-A9C9-000393C4760A@mindlube.com>
Message-ID: <FCD46C9D-586F-11D8-A9C9-000393C4760A@mindlube.com>


On Feb 5, 2004, at 11:43 PM, Alex Rice wrote:

>
> CFBundleName can make MacOS display a different name than the 
> executable name, but it's best to just name the executable correctly I 
> think.

Key point being- for crash reports you want the executable file named 
correctly, because CFBundleName won't show up in the crash report.


--
Alex Rice | Mindlube Software | http://mindlube.com


From sarahr at genesearch.com.au  Fri Feb  6 01:56:02 2004
From: sarahr at genesearch.com.au (Sarah Reichelt)
Date: Fri, 6 Feb 2004 16:56:02 +1000
Subject: Tutorials or instructions on delivering MacOSX apps...
In-Reply-To: <FLEGJBMJADGKMCHIMFOHEEOLDPAA.monte@sweattechnologies.com>
References: <FLEGJBMJADGKMCHIMFOHEEOLDPAA.monte@sweattechnologies.com>
Message-ID: <870CD92C-5871-11D8-8E1C-0003937A97B8@genesearch.com.au>

On 6 Feb 2004, at 3:42 pm, Monte Goulding wrote:

> and having the wrong (runrev's) copyright
>> information.
> Under what circumstances? Perhaps if you've left them empty?
>
>
No, it always puts RunRev's copyright in instead of anything I enter in 
the DB. I edit it manually in the plist, but this shouldn't be 
necessary.

I would like to add a vote for Alex's request that the executable be 
given the app's name instead of Revolution. I sometimes use Keep It 
Up's web server for remote monitoring, but it is confusing when it 
gives you a list of running apps and some are listed are Revolution 
instead of your app names.

Cheers,
Sarah


From kray at sonsothunder.com  Fri Feb  6 02:01:21 2004
From: kray at sonsothunder.com (Ken Ray)
Date: Fri, 6 Feb 2004 01:01:21 -0600
Subject: How do you pass authentication on the command line?
Message-ID: <016601c3ec7f$0b301c90$6601a8c0@LightningFlash>

I have a situation where I've got Panther running on my G4 and it has
Web Services turned on. A Rev CGI is running that reaches out of the web
server directory to another directory on disk to write a text file in a
specific folder. However once it does this, the owner of the file is
"www" (with read/write permissions) and the group is "wheel" (read only
permission) and the "Other" also only has read-only permission. What I
then need to do is have another standalone Rev app on the same machine
open, edit, and save back to that same file. The problem is that I can't
do that with the current permissions, and the only way I know to make it
happen is to do a "sudo chown" through the terminal... but it asks for
password authentication. I need to be able to do it straight from Rev.

So how do you "sudo" via shell() in Rev and pass authentication on the
command line?

Any help is greatly appreciated...

Ken Ray
Sons of Thunder Software
Email: kray at sonsothunder.com
Web Site: http://www.sonsothunder.com/ 



From erikhans08 at yahoo.com  Fri Feb  6 02:06:09 2004
From: erikhans08 at yahoo.com (erik hansen)
Date: Thu, 5 Feb 2004 23:06:09 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Setting the window rect and splitter loc in the Variable
	Watcher window
In-Reply-To: <BAE111E7-5851-11D8-8E1C-0003937A97B8@genesearch.com.au>
Message-ID: <20040206070609.16963.qmail@web61104.mail.yahoo.com>

--- Sarah Reichelt <sarahr at genesearch.com.au>
wrote:
> It drove me crazy that the VW window kept
> resetting, so I worked out 
> this technique: open it up and set it how you
> would like it. Then hold 
> down ALL the modifier keys (Shift, Control,
> Option & Command) and click 
> in the Variable Watcher. From the popup menu
> that appears, choose 
> "Stack & Card" and then choose "Save" from the
> sub-menu.

this did not work for me in a G4 with OSX.

=====
erik at erikhansen.org    http://www.erikhansen.org

__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Finance: Get your refund fast by filing online.
http://taxes.yahoo.com/filing.html

From sarahr at genesearch.com.au  Fri Feb  6 02:14:55 2004
From: sarahr at genesearch.com.au (Sarah Reichelt)
Date: Fri, 6 Feb 2004 17:14:55 +1000
Subject: Setting the window rect and splitter loc in the Variable
	Watcher window
In-Reply-To: <20040206070609.16963.qmail@web61104.mail.yahoo.com>
References: <20040206070609.16963.qmail@web61104.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <2A012358-5874-11D8-8E1C-0003937A97B8@genesearch.com.au>

Which bit didn't work? Did you get the popup menu? Were you able to 
select Save? Did you get an error message? Or did it all appear to work 
but nothing happen? I too am using a G4 and OS X.

Another technique might be to select "Revolution UI elements in lists" 
from the View menu, then you should be able to find the VW in the 
Application Browser. Edit it there and right-click / control-click on 
it's entry in the App Browser and choose save there.

Cheers,
Sarah

On 6 Feb 2004, at 5:06 pm, erik hansen wrote:

> --- Sarah Reichelt <sarahr at genesearch.com.au>
> wrote:
>> It drove me crazy that the VW window kept
>> resetting, so I worked out
>> this technique: open it up and set it how you
>> would like it. Then hold
>> down ALL the modifier keys (Shift, Control,
>> Option & Command) and click
>> in the Variable Watcher. From the popup menu
>> that appears, choose
>> "Stack & Card" and then choose "Save" from the
>> sub-menu.
>
> this did not work for me in a G4 with OSX.
>
> =====
> erik at erikhansen.org    http://www.erikhansen.org
>
> __________________________________
> Do you Yahoo!?
> Yahoo! Finance: Get your refund fast by filing online.
> http://taxes.yahoo.com/filing.html
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>
>
>


From sarahr at genesearch.com.au  Fri Feb  6 02:18:22 2004
From: sarahr at genesearch.com.au (Sarah Reichelt)
Date: Fri, 6 Feb 2004 17:18:22 +1000
Subject: How do you pass authentication on the command line?
In-Reply-To: <016601c3ec7f$0b301c90$6601a8c0@LightningFlash>
References: <016601c3ec7f$0b301c90$6601a8c0@LightningFlash>
Message-ID: <A5D17686-5874-11D8-8E1C-0003937A97B8@genesearch.com.au>

Hi Ken,

Here's what I did when I wanted to be able to run the "date" command 
with sudo:

   set the shellCommand to "/bin/sh"
   put "#!/bin/sh" & cr into tScript
   put "pw=" & myPassword & cr after tScript
   put "echo $pw | sudo -S date " & tDate & tTime & cr after tScript
   put shell(tScript) into tCheck

myPassword is a variable containing the current user's password. It 
would be a good idea to store this encrypted somewhere. You will need 
to replace everythig after the "sudo" on the fourth line, with whatever 
shell script you want to execute.

Cheers,
Sarah
sarahr at genesearch.com.au
http://www.troz.net/Rev/

On 6 Feb 2004, at 5:04 pm, Ken Ray wrote:

> I have a situation where I've got Panther running on my G4 and it has
> Web Services turned on. A Rev CGI is running that reaches out of the 
> web
> server directory to another directory on disk to write a text file in a
> specific folder. However once it does this, the owner of the file is
> "www" (with read/write permissions) and the group is "wheel" (read only
> permission) and the "Other" also only has read-only permission. What I
> then need to do is have another standalone Rev app on the same machine
> open, edit, and save back to that same file. The problem is that I 
> can't
> do that with the current permissions, and the only way I know to make 
> it
> happen is to do a "sudo chown" through the terminal... but it asks for
> password authentication. I need to be able to do it straight from Rev.
>
> So how do you "sudo" via shell() in Rev and pass authentication on the
> command line?
>
> Any help is greatly appreciated...
>
> Ken Ray
> Sons of Thunder Software
> Email: kray at sonsothunder.com
> Web Site: http://www.sonsothunder.com/


From monte at sweattechnologies.com  Fri Feb  6 02:21:29 2004
From: monte at sweattechnologies.com (Monte Goulding)
Date: Fri, 6 Feb 2004 17:51:29 +1030
Subject: Tutorials or instructions on delivering MacOSX apps...
In-Reply-To: <CD87DFD9-586F-11D8-A9C9-000393C4760A@mindlube.com>
Message-ID: <FLEGJBMJADGKMCHIMFOHCEOODPAA.monte@sweattechnologies.com>


> >> Yes, but it does weird stuff- or used to at any rate: Like naming the
> >> executable "Revolution",
> > I can change this right now... ;-)
>
> That's an important one because if the app crashes, then the crash
> report will say "Revolution" and the user will be confused.
> CFBundleName can make MacOS display a different name than the
> executable name, but it's best to just name the executable correctly I
> think.

OK... I've done it.
>
> > and having the wrong (runrev's) copyright
> >> information.
> > Under what circumstances? Perhaps if you've left them empty?
>
> That could be it- not sure.

Well... that will be the case in the new DB anyway.
>
> > There are also many keys than can be in Info.plist that
> >> the Distribution Builder doesn't know about.
> > What do you need that the Distribution Builder doesn't know about?
>
> I'm not sure if anything should be added to DB. It could get
> overwhelming for the user.
>
> Personally: CFBundleIdentifier would be good to have.
That's not in the Rev PLIST...

 I thought it was
> important but I forget why. CFBundleHelpBookName and
> CFBundleHelpBookFolder are useful if you want your app's html help to
> show up in Help Viewer's library of apps.

I'd say there aren't that many users using the Apple help book format
because it's not cross platform. That thing's a slug anyway.

There are dozens of possible
> keys in the Info.plist; they get really obscure though. I bet the set
> that DB currently has is good for 90% of apps.

Hmmm 90%...
> >
> > Yep it's easy to edit it in the PLIST editor or a text editor. In some
> > cases
> > you may need to set keys that the DB doesn't know about as identified
> > above.
> > In most cases you shouldn't need to though.
>
> And don't forget Property List Editor in the Developer/Applications
> folder.

That's what I meant by PLIST editor...

PS The new DB will let you choose a PLIST file as an alternative.

Cheers

Monte


From monte at sweattechnologies.com  Fri Feb  6 02:31:49 2004
From: monte at sweattechnologies.com (Monte Goulding)
Date: Fri, 6 Feb 2004 18:01:49 +1030
Subject: Tutorials or instructions on delivering MacOSX apps...
In-Reply-To: <870CD92C-5871-11D8-8E1C-0003937A97B8@genesearch.com.au>
Message-ID: <FLEGJBMJADGKMCHIMFOHCEOPDPAA.monte@sweattechnologies.com>


> > and having the wrong (runrev's) copyright
> >> information.
> > Under what circumstances? Perhaps if you've left them empty?
> >
> >
> No, it always puts RunRev's copyright in instead of anything I enter in
> the DB. I edit it manually in the plist, but this shouldn't be
> necessary.

Hmmm... have you bugzilla'd this? I just tested with the new DB and it's
working fine but that doesn't mean it wasn't an issue with the old one.

Cheers

Monte


From dcragg at lacscentre.co.uk  Fri Feb  6 02:50:05 2004
From: dcragg at lacscentre.co.uk (Dave Cragg)
Date: Fri, 6 Feb 2004 07:50:05 +0000
Subject: How do you pass authentication on the command line?
In-Reply-To: <016601c3ec7f$0b301c90$6601a8c0@LightningFlash>
References: <016601c3ec7f$0b301c90$6601a8c0@LightningFlash>
Message-ID: <p06020414bc48f71030b5@[192.168.123.7]>

At 1:01 am -0600 6/2/04, Ken Ray wrote:
>I have a situation where I've got Panther running on my G4 and it has
>Web Services turned on. A Rev CGI is running that reaches out of the web
>server directory to another directory on disk to write a text file in a
>specific folder. However once it does this, the owner of the file is
>"www" (with read/write permissions) and the group is "wheel" (read only
>permission) and the "Other" also only has read-only permission. What I
>then need to do is have another standalone Rev app on the same machine
>open, edit, and save back to that same file. The problem is that I can't
>do that with the current permissions, and the only way I know to make it
>happen is to do a "sudo chown" through the terminal... but it asks for
>password authentication. I need to be able to do it straight from Rev.
>
>So how do you "sudo" via shell() in Rev and pass authentication on the
>command line?

Not answering your question exactly, but couldn't you have the CGI 
script do a chmod on the file with shell just after it saves it. This 
won't need sudo as the CGI runs as the owner of the file and can 
change permissions. I just tested here and it worked.

Cheers
Dave

From dsc at swcp.com  Fri Feb  6 03:15:12 2004
From: dsc at swcp.com (Dar Scott)
Date: Fri, 6 Feb 2004 01:15:12 -0700
Subject: Where goes stacks, included stacks and externals?  (was
	Dialogsinlibrary organization)
In-Reply-To: <GGEOJBEEGFHLDOFIMMPIMEIDFPAA.chipp@chipp.com>
Message-ID: <95F70B8C-587C-11D8-A7A2-000A9567A3E6@swcp.com>


On Thursday, February 5, 2004, at 08:43 PM, Chipp Walters wrote:

> I think it's up to the developer to link libraries during the 
> development
> phase, and to distribute the application with the linked libraries in 
> the
> order which works best for him/her.

I guess you mean the application developer, not the library developer?

If so, that seems to be the consensus.

I tend to lean the other direction.  A person who (say) buys a library 
is not that interested in all the libraries and their externals needed 
to support it and I would have thought would not want to be bothered 
with connecting them all together.  But if application developers are 
used to the notion of connecting it all together, ...

There might be ways that sub-libraries are implemented other than 
separate stack files, though.  They might be included as substacks.  A 
script library might be pasted into a stack script.  A back-script 
library might come on a button.  Stacks and externals might be embedded.

Dar Scott



From e.reicher at gmx.at  Fri Feb  6 04:17:16 2004
From: e.reicher at gmx.at (Ernst M. Reicher)
Date: Fri, 6 Feb 2004 10:17:16 +0100
Subject: [ANN] POP library released
References: <20040206072203.9EBAE9302A3@mail.runrev.com>
Message-ID: <013501c3ec92$05a510b0$0f00a8c0@EMRBUERO>

> Message: 2
> Date: Fri, 6 Feb 2004 15:52:44 +1000
> From: Sarah Reichelt <sarahr at genesearch.com.au>
> Subject: [ANN] POP library released

snip

> Cheers,
> Sarah
> sarahr at genesearch.com.au
> http://www.troz.net/Rev/
>
> P.S. My apologies to anyone who feels such a plug to be inappropriate
> to this list, but I had promised early testers that I would announce
> the release version in this way.

apologies????
inappropriate????

applause from AUSTRIA
its the very right place!!!!!
...and I?m not afraid that you will drown in money because of the donations
but I?m sure that it makes a good feeling for a programmer.
Donation just gives you some kind of acknowledgement (I?m not good in
English - probably there is a more suitable word) for your work!!

Regards,
            Ernst



From rjb at rz.uni-potsdam.de  Fri Feb  6 05:05:09 2004
From: rjb at rz.uni-potsdam.de (Robert Brenstein)
Date: Fri, 6 Feb 2004 11:05:09 +0100
Subject: Let Rev's Light Shine...or Watch It Go Out
In-Reply-To: <BC47FF06.3CBFF%ambassador@fourthworld.com>
References: <BC47FF06.3CBFF%ambassador@fourthworld.com>
Message-ID: <a06020403bc4915541e89@[141.89.100.235]>

>  > there is still one thing you can do to fight the legacy of X-Talks
>>  prejudice:
>>
>>  DISPLAY THE MADE WITH RUN REV IMAGE ON EVERY APPLICATION YOU RELEASE!
>>
>>  If you run away from the issue and try to hide you applications'
>>  roots, your efforts can only work against the long-term success &
>>  acceptance of the platform you use to build that application.
>
>I would agree wholeheatedly if tempered to read:
>
>     Display the "Made with RunRev" notice in every About box
>
>This has less to do "hiding" than simply message relevance:
>
>99.99% of my customers and my clients' customers are not software developers
>and never will be.  In a noisy world staying on message is critical, and the
>About box is a part of the branding message for the developer delivering it.
>
>Adding other graphic treatments confuses the message without providing much
>real benefit to anyone (not to mention what it can do to one's color palette
>choices).
>
>The good folks at RunRev wisely recognize this, requiring only the text:
>
>    Made with Runtime Revolution
>    Portions (c) 2004 Runtime Revolution Ltd.
>
>This is how professinoal development tools and libraries are credited, from
>MacApp to THINK C to CodeWarrior.  The folks at RunRev have seen how much
>contention was caused by Allegiant's logo requirement, and how many deals
>were lost by Director's harsh About box requirements (don't get Chipp
>started on that <g>).
>
>The 0.01% of folks looking at my About box to see what I'm developing with
>will find what they're looking for easily.
>
>A third-party's About box is a poor substitute for effective marketing, and
>just scares off potential customers.
>
>If one really wants to support Rev effectively there's a much more visible
>way to do it: consider adding a page at your site offering Rev info, tools,
>or even just a description of how your clients benefit from your using Rev.
>Your About box only goes as far as you can throw it, but Google is
>everywhere....
>
>--
>  Richard Gaskin
>  Fourth World Media Corporation
>  ___________________________________________________________
>  Ambassador at FourthWorld.com       http://www.FourthWorld.com
>

Well said, Richard. As much as I like and depend on MC/Rev, it is 
just a development tool and most people do not give a damn what a 
given program was developed with as long as it does what they want 
and how they want it. Best advertisement among developers is word of 
mouth and a proven track. However, anyone who considers switching to 
Rev and checks the archives of this list will see numerous 
discussions of glitches and workabouts. I am not saying that this is 
necessarily much different for other languages/development tools but 
the promise and power of Rev is to reduce those.

Robert

From rjb at rz.uni-potsdam.de  Fri Feb  6 05:26:00 2004
From: rjb at rz.uni-potsdam.de (Robert Brenstein)
Date: Fri, 6 Feb 2004 11:26:00 +0100
Subject: Tutorials or instructions on delivering MacOSX apps...
In-Reply-To: <GGEOJBEEGFHLDOFIMMPIKEIFFPAA.chipp@chipp.com>
References: <GGEOJBEEGFHLDOFIMMPIKEIFFPAA.chipp@chipp.com>
Message-ID: <a06020405bc491b3c81dc@[141.89.100.235]>

>
>Who said Macs were easier? Not when it comes to compiling and delivering
>apps! (<--WARNING: OBVIOUS TROLL)
>

This has always been true. From day one. Macs have been easier for 
end users but supporting that properly has always required more work 
by programmers (even with such great tools like THINK products were).

Robert

From r.hartley at bio.gla.ac.uk  Fri Feb  6 05:35:37 2004
From: r.hartley at bio.gla.ac.uk (Robert Hartley)
Date: Fri, 06 Feb 2004 10:35:37 +0000
Subject: Dan's Book
Message-ID: <6.0.0.22.0.20040206102529.02419590@udcf.gla.ac.uk>

Hi All.

OK I''m a rev newbie and indeed new to programming. I previously trawled 
our library for books on languages to learn (and the www). I looked at real 
basic and bought a book. Goodness me, how it put me off.

I bought rev express and Dan Shaefer's (hope the spelling is OK) book and 
got round to reading it last night.

AT LAST!!!!!!  A BOOK THAT IS IN-DEPTH ENOUGH, BUT ALSO FOR THE NEWBIE. :-)

I am sick of books that say things like "OK lets learn codeing"; simply 
stick stribng a with parameterb with inverted backflipc and you get a 
congealed output. Did you understand that sentence? No I bet you didn't, 
nor do many that read books on their first language.

However, Dan's book is great. He says things like "hey guys! want to add a 
counter to a stack?" Hmmm let me see do this, then try this, then play with 
this and hey presto!, you have what you want.


Dear Dan.
10/10, 100%, 5 gold stars etc. THE best beginners computer book I have ever 
encountered.

Thanks

Dr. Bob


From janschenkel at yahoo.com  Fri Feb  6 05:44:17 2004
From: janschenkel at yahoo.com (Jan Schenkel)
Date: Fri, 6 Feb 2004 02:44:17 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Database GUI logic 
In-Reply-To: <D211399A-582D-11D8-8180-0030654C1E62@realtorsgroup.us>
Message-ID: <20040206104417.38175.qmail@web60505.mail.yahoo.com>

--- hershrev <hershbp at realtorsgroup.us> wrote:
> Hi every one.
> What is the best way to select a DB record into a
> form view window with 
> multiple fields ? (not with the db manager ,because
> I don't want to 
> give the user access to the data itself to tamper
> with, to avoid 
> corruption.)
> Thanks hershrev
> 

Hi Hershrev,

Using the database-linked fields doesn't mean you
_have_to_ update each field as soon as it is changed.

Just link all the fields, checkboxes and option menus,
but don't set them to update after editing.
Then add a button, go to the Database panel of the
property palette, and set its action to 'Update
Record' -- and presto, when the user edits data,
nothing is saved, until he clicks this button.

Hope this helped,

Jan Schenkel.

=====
"As we grow older, we grow both wiser and more foolish at the same time."  (La Rochefoucauld)

__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Finance: Get your refund fast by filing online.
http://taxes.yahoo.com/filing.html

From kevin at runrev.com  Fri Feb  6 07:27:57 2004
From: kevin at runrev.com (Kevin Miller)
Date: Fri, 06 Feb 2004 12:27:57 +0000
Subject: Andy's comments and positioning...
In-Reply-To: <ACEELABEAIANJNCEJFMAAEEDIMAA.chipp@chipp.com>
Message-ID: <BC4938CD.2A3F0%kevin@runrev.com>

On 4/2/04 9:35 pm, Chipp Walters <chipp at chipp.com> wrote:

> I like to think of RR as a *real development tool*, not as a HyperCard clone
> or newbie play toy. Unfortunately, I believe Andy thinks of it more as a
> HyperCard clone...primarily because of positioning.

I'm assuming you're referring to the MacWorld review.  Its true that he got
that point wrong, but this *isn't* a general problem that we have.  If it
was, other reviewers would make the same mistake, and in dozens of reviews,
they haven't.  No review I've seen hasn't had some kind of factual error in
it, it happens in the best of them.

> What if RR is positioned as the ubiquitous RAD programming environment for
> cross platform development -- surpassing in both speed and performance other
> tools such as JAVA, QT, VB, etc.? I think this is a valid positioning
> statement. Now to turn around and say "and it's only $99" and your Mom can
> use it, certainly doesn't seem to back this up.
> 
> Which brings us to the real problem...positioning. RR can be positioned as a
> 'HyperCard clone' for the inventive user OR as a full-featured development
> tool for professionals can use to build commercial and enterprise
> applications.
> 
> There have been a few comments lately about Rev pricing...
> 
> I think Rev's pricing is right on the money. Users can download a free
> version which they can try out for 30 days. Of course the HyperCard clone
> crowd wants a version for $99 bucks. That is where their expectation is set
> (just like Andy). After all, Apple used to 'give it away.'
> 
> But, developers whose business depends on RR, are used to paying much more
> for professional tools. Just look at other cross-platform development
> suites. By comparison, RR is a steal.
> 
> One of the biggest challenges for Xtalk companies is their ability to stay
> funded and alive. I believe in RR as a professional development tool. And,
> as a professional developer, I can make money with it, even if it does cost
> hundreds of dollars.

Essentially what we are going to be doing more and more over the next few
versions is to differentiate Express from Revolution.  So we have two
product lines: "Revolution" which contains Studio and Enterprise aimed at
professional developers; and Express which is aimed at the entry-level.  We
have a number of ideas about how to best manage this differentiation in
terms of feature sets, pricing, promotion and support.  We'll be introducing
this over time - still preserving options for the existing user base, but
more clearly differentiating where new users join the Revolution.

Kind regards,

Kevin

Kevin Miller ~ kevin at runrev.com ~ http://www.runrev.com/
Runtime Revolution - User-Centric Development Tools


From 3mcgrath at adelphia.net  Fri Feb  6 09:02:23 2004
From: 3mcgrath at adelphia.net (Thomas McGrath III)
Date: Fri, 6 Feb 2004 09:02:23 -0500
Subject: Setting the window rect and splitter loc in the Variable
	Watcher window
In-Reply-To: <2A012358-5874-11D8-8E1C-0003937A97B8@genesearch.com.au>
References: <20040206070609.16963.qmail@web61104.mail.yahoo.com>
	<2A012358-5874-11D8-8E1C-0003937A97B8@genesearch.com.au>
Message-ID: <163EEFBE-58AD-11D8-8533-000A95DA60FA@adelphia.net>

Sarah,

This worked for me and my life is now easier to live!!!

Thank you.

P.S.  In the VW window there is less 'live' space for the pop up to be 
triggered SO maybe erik was trying over the field and not the 
background area of VW? FWIW

Thank you again,

TOm

On Feb 6, 2004, at 2:14 AM, Sarah Reichelt wrote:

> Which bit didn't work? Did you get the popup menu? Were you able to 
> select Save? Did you get an error message? Or did it all appear to 
> work but nothing happen? I too am using a G4 and OS X.
>
> Another technique might be to select "Revolution UI elements in lists" 
> from the View menu, then you should be able to find the VW in the 
> Application Browser. Edit it there and right-click / control-click on 
> it's entry in the App Browser and choose save there.
>
> Cheers,
> Sarah
>
> On 6 Feb 2004, at 5:06 pm, erik hansen wrote:
>
>> --- Sarah Reichelt <sarahr at genesearch.com.au>
>> wrote:
>>> It drove me crazy that the VW window kept
>>> resetting, so I worked out
>>> this technique: open it up and set it how you
>>> would like it. Then hold
>>> down ALL the modifier keys (Shift, Control,
>>> Option & Command) and click
>>> in the Variable Watcher. From the popup menu
>>> that appears, choose
>>> "Stack & Card" and then choose "Save" from the
>>> sub-menu.
>>
>> this did not work for me in a G4 with OSX.
>>
>> =====
>> erik at erikhansen.org    http://www.erikhansen.org
>>
>> __________________________________
>> Do you Yahoo!?
>> Yahoo! Finance: Get your refund fast by filing online.
>> http://taxes.yahoo.com/filing.html
>> _______________________________________________
>> use-revolution mailing list
>> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>>
>>
>>
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>
>

Thomas J. McGrath III
SCS
1000 Killarney Dr.
Pittsburgh, PA 15234
412-885-8541


From jtenny at willamette.edu  Fri Feb  6 09:35:21 2004
From: jtenny at willamette.edu (John Tenny)
Date: Fri, 6 Feb 2004 06:35:21 -0800
Subject: Dan's Book
In-Reply-To: <6.0.0.22.0.20040206102529.02419590@udcf.gla.ac.uk>
References: <6.0.0.22.0.20040206102529.02419590@udcf.gla.ac.uk>
Message-ID: <B191CE38-58B1-11D8-BE44-000A95A4EDD2@willamette.edu>

I fully agree - great starter book. When is volume 2 anticipated?

Peace,   John
On Feb 6, 2004, at 2:35 AM, Robert Hartley wrote:

> Hi All.
>
> OK I''m a rev newbie and indeed new to programming. I previously 
> trawled our library for books on languages to learn (and the www). I 
> looked at real basic and bought a book. Goodness me, how it put me 
> off.
>
> I bought rev express and Dan Shaefer's (hope the spelling is OK) book 
> and got round to reading it last night.
>
> AT LAST!!!!!!  A BOOK THAT IS IN-DEPTH ENOUGH, BUT ALSO FOR THE 
> NEWBIE. :-)
>
> I am sick of books that say things like "OK lets learn codeing"; 
> simply stick stribng a with parameterb with inverted backflipc and you 
> get a congealed output. Did you understand that sentence? No I bet you 
> didn't, nor do many that read books on their first language.
>
> However, Dan's book is great. He says things like "hey guys! want to 
> add a counter to a stack?" Hmmm let me see do this, then try this, 
> then play with this and hey presto!, you have what you want.
>
>
> Dear Dan.
> 10/10, 100%, 5 gold stars etc. THE best beginners computer book I have 
> ever encountered.
>
> Thanks
>
> Dr. Bob
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>


From psahores at easynet.fr  Fri Feb  6 09:46:18 2004
From: psahores at easynet.fr (Pierre Sahores)
Date: Fri, 6 Feb 2004 15:46:18 +0100
Subject: Andy's comments and positioning...
In-Reply-To: <BC4938CD.2A3F0%kevin@runrev.com>
References: <BC4938CD.2A3F0%kevin@runrev.com>
Message-ID: <3921B520-58B3-11D8-A8D9-000A95665344@easynet.fr>

Dear Chipp and Kevin, Hello List,

Le 6 f?vr. 04, ? 13:27, Kevin Miller a ?crit :

> On 4/2/04 9:35 pm, Chipp Walters <chipp at chipp.com> wrote:
>
>> I like to think of RR as a *real development tool*, not as a 
>> HyperCard clone
>> or newbie play toy. Unfortunately, I believe Andy thinks of it more 
>> as a
>> HyperCard clone...primarily because of positioning.
>
> I'm assuming you're referring to the MacWorld review.  Its true that 
> he got
> that point wrong, but this *isn't* a general problem that we have.  If 
> it
> was, other reviewers would make the same mistake, and in dozens of 
> reviews,
> they haven't.  No review I've seen hasn't had some kind of factual 
> error in
> it, it happens in the best of them.
>
>> What if RR is positioned as the ubiquitous RAD programming 
>> environment for
>> cross platform development -- surpassing in both speed and 
>> performance other
>> tools such as JAVA, QT, VB, etc.? I think this is a valid positioning
>> statement. Now to turn around and say "and it's only $99" and your 
>> Mom can
>> use it, certainly doesn't seem to back this up.
>>
>> Which brings us to the real problem...positioning. RR can be 
>> positioned as a
>> 'HyperCard clone' for the inventive user OR as a full-featured 
>> development
>> tool for professionals can use to build commercial and enterprise
>> applications.
>>
>> There have been a few comments lately about Rev pricing...
>>
>> I think Rev's pricing is right on the money. Users can download a free
>> version which they can try out for 30 days. Of course the HyperCard 
>> clone
>> crowd wants a version for $99 bucks. That is where their expectation 
>> is set
>> (just like Andy). After all, Apple used to 'give it away.'
>>
>> But, developers whose business depends on RR, are used to paying much 
>> more
>> for professional tools. Just look at other cross-platform development
>> suites. By comparison, RR is a steal.
>>
>> One of the biggest challenges for Xtalk companies is their ability to 
>> stay
>> funded and alive. I believe in RR as a professional development tool. 
>> And,
>> as a professional developer, I can make money with it, even if it 
>> does cost
>> hundreds of dollars.
>
> Essentially what we are going to be doing more and more over the next 
> few
> versions is to differentiate Express from Revolution.  So we have two
> product lines: "Revolution" which contains Studio and Enterprise aimed 
> at
> professional developers; and Express which is aimed at the 
> entry-level.  We
> have a number of ideas about how to best manage this differentiation in
> terms of feature sets, pricing, promotion and support.  We'll be 
> introducing
> this over time - still preserving options for the existing user base, 
> but
> more clearly differentiating where new users join the Revolution.

Probably a good thing to do the professional issues of Rev more 
powerfull than the hobbyst ones in the future. Features alike the shell 
access, databases connectors, xml or regular expressions support, 
etc... don't feet the hobbyst needs. On the other hand, including an 
Apache Rev's native module, an "Entreprise Revolution Beans" design 
patterns suit of tools "? la Java", Sybase ASE and Borland Interbase 
native connectors, some more rocking Oracle and PostgreSQL unix 
connectors issues, etc... in a "N-Tier Professional Development 
Revolution package would probably help us to let know any kind of 
customers that Revolution can really feet any kind of professional 
grade needs.

I was, last week, speaking with "X", a databases administrator, witch 
manage, with two other collegues, a 24/24 7/7 farm of 120 SunSpark 
Solaris + BEA Weblogic + Sybase ASE 12.5 servers in a great french 
telecom compagny. Here is what he said : the license prices is never a 
problem for the IT Staff : the more expensive they are, the more secure 
the IT Staff feel, even if the servers are going to krach... Why ? 
Simply because if you are owning "one of the best market wieved product 
lines", you are not responsable of "aventurious choices" : if the stuff 
kraches, it's not your fault and it will be to the product line vendor 
to provide to you the needed solution... Probably, those kind of IT 
Staff will never think that, in using Revolution, i can feet their 
needs, as long as it will not be a suffisant expensive "peer installed 
processor" license issue of Rev.

Probably would it be a great help for us, the Rev's professional 
developpers, to be able to get two or three kind of Rev's licenses : 
the first one, unexpensive (aka the "Commercial Entreprise" current 
price)  dedicated to our development works, a second one, a little more 
"seriously expensive" as a deployment license feeting our small to 
middle class entreprise customers and a "very seriously more expensive" 
deployment license dedicated to feet "the needs" of big companies, 
whose have to do with SAP, PeopleSoft, Oracle, Sybase and so on... 
product lines.

P.S.: Technically speaking, Sybase ASE 12.5 and PostgreSQL 7.xx are, 
today, lots more suitables than the last issues of Oracle are...

> Kind regards,
>
> Kevin
>
> Kevin Miller ~ kevin at runrev.com ~ http://www.runrev.com/
> Runtime Revolution - User-Centric Development Tools
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>
>
Best Regards, Pierre Sahores

100, rue de Paris
F - 77140 Nemours

psahores at easynet.fr

GSM:   +33 6 03 95 77 70
Pro:   +33 1 41 60 52 68
Dom:   +33 1 64 45 05 33
Fax:   +33 1 64 45 05 33

Inspection acad?mique de Seine-Saint-Denis
Applications et SGBD ACID SQL (WEB et PGI)
Penser et produire "delta de productivit?"


Bien cordialement, Pierre Sahores

100, rue de Paris
F - 77140 Nemours

psahores at easynet.fr

GSM:   +33 6 03 95 77 70
Pro:   +33 1 41 60 52 68
Dom:   +33 1 64 45 05 33
Fax:   +33 1 64 45 05 33

Inspection acad?mique de Seine-Saint-Denis
Applications et SGBD ACID SQL (WEB et PGI)
Penser et produire "delta de productivit?"

From rcozens at pon.net  Fri Feb  6 09:17:41 2004
From: rcozens at pon.net (Rob Cozens)
Date: Fri, 6 Feb 2004 07:17:41 -0700
Subject: Let Rev's Light Shine...or Watch It Go Out
In-Reply-To: <46F263BF-5807-11D8-A7A2-000A9567A3E6@swcp.com>
References: <46F263BF-5807-11D8-A7A2-000A9567A3E6@swcp.com>
Message-ID: <a05100302bc49524f0b68@[66.52.165.73]>

>I think this is appropriate in the credits of an about box, but not 
>in a splash or in main windows in general.

That's exactly where you will find it in all my stacks & standalones 
that have an About menu, Dar.
-- 

Rob Cozens
CCW, Serendipity Software Company
http://www.oenolog.net/who.htm

"And I, which was two fooles, do so grow three;
Who are a little wise, the best fooles bee."

from "The Triple Foole" by John Donne (1572-1631)

From rcozens at pon.net  Fri Feb  6 09:20:45 2004
From: rcozens at pon.net (Rob Cozens)
Date: Fri, 6 Feb 2004 07:20:45 -0700
Subject: Let Rev's Light Shine...or Watch It Go Out
In-Reply-To: <a05100303bc4854c5df84@[66.52.165.88]>
References: <a05100303bc4854c5df84@[66.52.165.88]>
Message-ID: <a05100303bc4952a01e54@[66.52.165.73]>

Apologies for the duplicate post.

If you note the times on my posts, you will find the first sent at 10 
AM and the second sent at 1 PM, after other posts I sent after 10 
appeared on the List.
-- 

Rob Cozens
CCW, Serendipity Software Company
http://www.oenolog.net/who.htm

"And I, which was two fooles, do so grow three;
Who are a little wise, the best fooles bee."

from "The Triple Foole" by John Donne (1572-1631)

From rcozens at pon.net  Fri Feb  6 09:22:52 2004
From: rcozens at pon.net (Rob Cozens)
Date: Fri, 6 Feb 2004 07:22:52 -0700
Subject: Let Rev's Light Shine...or Watch It Go Out
In-Reply-To: <002701c3ec31$cedae330$e8e02044@fatal>
References: <a05100303bc4854c5df84@[66.52.165.88]>
 <002701c3ec31$cedae330$e8e02044@fatal>
Message-ID: <a05100304bc4953514807@[66.52.165.73]>

>I'm not a critic. Why are you singling me out?

Sorry, wrong Andy.

With my reference to the Macworld article, I presumed others would 
know I meant Andy Ihnatko.
-- 

Rob Cozens
CCW, Serendipity Software Company
http://www.oenolog.net/who.htm

"And I, which was two fooles, do so grow three;
Who are a little wise, the best fooles bee."

from "The Triple Foole" by John Donne (1572-1631)

From rcozens at pon.net  Fri Feb  6 09:38:32 2004
From: rcozens at pon.net (Rob Cozens)
Date: Fri, 6 Feb 2004 07:38:32 -0700
Subject: Let Rev's Light Shine...or Watch It Go Out
In-Reply-To: <BC483A36.3CC44%ambassador@fourthworld.com>
References: <BC483A36.3CC44%ambassador@fourthworld.com>
Message-ID: <a05100305bc4955c1da7c@[66.52.165.73]>

>I won't join the doomsayers in suggesting that the technology
>hinges on a logo in my About box (however flattering that may be)

Richard, et al:

If that's all that people came away from my post with, I failed to 
state my case properly.

Bottom line:  I contend that identifying one's project as made with 
Run Rev and challenging gross misstatements in the press will do more 
to promote the long-term success of Runtime Revolution that than 
trying to hide the fact that one used RunRev to created one's product 
and shrugging one's shoulders when the critics misspeak.

And the think the history of the HyperCard community proves my point.
-- 

Rob Cozens
CCW, Serendipity Software Company
http://www.oenolog.net/who.htm

"And I, which was two fooles, do so grow three;
Who are a little wise, the best fooles bee."

from "The Triple Foole" by John Donne (1572-1631)

From rcozens at pon.net  Fri Feb  6 10:07:14 2004
From: rcozens at pon.net (Rob Cozens)
Date: Fri, 6 Feb 2004 08:07:14 -0700
Subject: Let Rev's Light Shine...or Watch It Go Out
Message-ID: <a05100300bc495ce95abf@[66.52.165.124]>

>And the think the history of the HyperCard community proves my point.

Man, do I need a "spell check error checker"!

I'm sure my incidence of misspelled words per post has been greatly 
reduced; but the incidence of nonsensical context of correctly 
spelled words has surely increased as I rely more and more on the 
spell checker.

Believe it or not, I do proof my messages before sending them...sorry 
I'm not doing a better job of it.      :{`)
-- 

Rob Cozens
CCW, Serendipity Software Company
http://www.oenolog.net/who.htm

"And I, which was two fooles, do so grow three;
Who are a little wise, the best fooles bee."

from "The Triple Foole" by John Donne (1572-1631)

From ambassador at fourthworld.com  Fri Feb  6 11:08:29 2004
From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin)
Date: Fri, 06 Feb 2004 08:08:29 -0800
Subject: Let Rev's Light Shine...or Watch It Go Out
In-Reply-To: <a05100305bc4955c1da7c@[66.52.165.73]>
Message-ID: <BC48FBFD.3CCBC%ambassador@fourthworld.com>

Rob Cozens wrote:

>> I won't join the doomsayers in suggesting that the technology
>> hinges on a logo in my About box (however flattering that may be)
> 
> Richard, et al:
> 
> If that's all that people came away from my post with, I failed to
> state my case properly.

That line was my attempt at using hyperbole for humor.  Admittedly weak and
perhaps clumsy.  Thanks for being gracious (as usual, always the gentleman).

> Bottom line:  I contend that identifying one's project as made with
> Run Rev and challenging gross misstatements in the press will do more
> to promote the long-term success of Runtime Revolution that than
> trying to hide the fact that one used RunRev to created one's product
> and shrugging one's shoulders when the critics misspeak.

Agreed, but how many About boxes have you seen where the author hasn't
included the required copyright notice for Rev?

Even better for reviewers will be a revised Applications Gallery page with
screen shots and the addition of a Case Studies page describing how Rev's
unbeatable ROI contributed to the profitability of world-class apps.

A reviewer may never stumble across my product's About box, but will visit
RunRev.com.

-- 
 Richard Gaskin 
 Fourth World Media Corporation
 ___________________________________________________________
 Ambassador at FourthWorld.com       http://www.FourthWorld.com


From gizmotron at earthlink.net  Fri Feb  6 11:12:03 2004
From: gizmotron at earthlink.net (Mark Brownell)
Date: Fri, 6 Feb 2004 08:12:03 -0800
Subject: bugzilla "Open a new account" link
Message-ID: <337CA0B4-58BF-11D8-9E62-000A95859272@earthlink.net>

I guess I need to report that the webmaster has a bug. Item # 1 below?  
Could some kind sole please direct me to the secret location referred  
to in item # 1. The "Open a new account" does not appear while  
searching everywhere for it. All I wanted to do is read
bug...id=379. Perhaps this is fixed in the latest version of Rev?

From:
http://www.runrev.com/Revolution1/bugzilla/index.html
"Creating an account

Any person reporting a bug has to create a unique bug database account.  
To create an account:

1.	Click on the "Open a new account" link and fill in the required  
information.

2.	You will be emailed your unique password for use on the system."


I'm trying to get to the bottom of this:

No. See  Bugzilla (2003-08-19):

http://www.runrev.com/revolution/developers/bugdatabase/ 
show_bug.cgi?id=379

 >  > The app works fine when running under OS X and OS 9 but fails when
 >>  running in the Classic environment. When I say fails, it starts up   
OK,
 >>  it's just that it doesn't actually read any data from the
 >>  requested files. Thinking that it was a path issue, I queried the
 >>  existence of the files at the requested paths (if there is a file
 >>  <filePath>), presuming that the problem was path related. The answer
 >>  was true but the data was none! Same response even if I resorted to
 >>  using the answer file dialog.
 >>
 >>  Am I missing something basic here or is this a real problem?
 >
 >I think this is an actual problem.  I was looking at a project today  
that
 >exhibited the same problem.  Works fine in OS X.2.8 and fine in OS 9  
but
 >in Classic it fails to read the file.  This was using the get url  
method
 >rather than open file.
 >

Same here, both get url and open/read methods fail (my app actually
uses the former, I only really tried the open/read method in an
attempt to isolate the problem).



Thanks,
Mark


From ambassador at fourthworld.com  Fri Feb  6 11:09:49 2004
From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin)
Date: Fri, 06 Feb 2004 08:09:49 -0800
Subject: [ANN] POP library released
In-Reply-To: <AF3E6023-5868-11D8-8E1C-0003937A97B8@genesearch.com.au>
Message-ID: <BC48FC4D.3CCBC%ambassador@fourthworld.com>

Sarah Reichelt wrote:

> After many promises and delays, I have finally completed my POP
> library, now available at http://www.troz.net/Rev/

Good going, Sarah -- thank you for posting that!

-- 
 Richard Gaskin 
 Fourth World Media Corporation
 ___________________________________________________________
 Ambassador at FourthWorld.com       http://www.FourthWorld.com


From revdan at danshafer.com  Fri Feb  6 11:33:47 2004
From: revdan at danshafer.com (Dan Shafer)
Date: Fri, 6 Feb 2004 08:33:47 -0800
Subject: Dan's Book
In-Reply-To: <B191CE38-58B1-11D8-BE44-000A95A4EDD2@willamette.edu>
References: <6.0.0.22.0.20040206102529.02419590@udcf.gla.ac.uk>
	<B191CE38-58B1-11D8-BE44-000A95A4EDD2@willamette.edu>
Message-ID: <3CDFAAFE-58C2-11D8-A691-0030656FB5D4@danshafer.com>

Dr. Bob....

Wow. Thanks very much for those kind words. Uplifting at a time I 
needed such a lift!

John (and the rest of the Revolutionaries), I have what I think you'll 
see as great news on the remaining volumes of the book series. I'll 
make it in a separate email here shortly. Stay tuned.

Again, thanks for the great review!

>
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Dan Shafer, Revolutionary
Author of  "Revolution: Software at the Speed of Thought"
http://www.revolutionpros.com for more info
Available at Runtime Revolution Store (http://www.runrev.com/RevPress)


From revdan at danshafer.com  Fri Feb  6 11:41:56 2004
From: revdan at danshafer.com (Dan Shafer)
Date: Fri, 6 Feb 2004 08:41:56 -0800
Subject: When's the Rest of Dan's Book Due?
Message-ID: <603EA747-58C3-11D8-A691-0030656FB5D4@danshafer.com>

During MacWorld SF in January -- at which every copy of my book that 
Rev could get to the show was sold by the third day -- Kevin and I 
discussed the publishing plan going forward. I had been studying the 
relatively recent development over at Adam Angst's TidBits operation 
with some interest. (FYI, if you don't know it, they are publishing 
small books focused on a single topic at $5 each and delivering in PDF 
format.)

Kevin and I liked that concept a lot. And as you probably know I had 
already anticipated releasing chapters of my book to those who joined 
RevolutionPros.com at the Leader ($197) level prior to publication and 
free anyway.

So what we've decided to do is to release the chapters of Volumes 2 and 
3 incrementally. As I finish a chapter in draft, it will go to those 
who are Leader level members of my online community. They'll give me 
some feedback (hopefully) and then I'll do a final version and release 
it for sale at something in the $5 per chapter neighborhood. My plan is 
to release a chapter about every week or so, sometimes two in a week.

Then when we have a full book-sized collection of chapters, we'll 
combine them into an immediately available PDF and Kevin will take them 
to print for distribution in hard copy format.

This means you can buy only the chapters in which you are interested, 
when you are interested in them. Whether you buy the full book 
collection or not is up to you (unless, again, you are a Leader member 
in RevolutionPros.com, in which case you get it free anyway).

Furthermore, I'm going to let the community help me decide the *order* 
in which to release the chapters. I'll be posting a complete list of 
the subjects on RevPros some time this weekend and allowing members 
there to vote for which ones they'd like to see sooner than later. I'll 
focus on those that get the biggest response *except* where I know 
something about a future Rev development or a third-party product that 
could change the chapter substantially.

So to recap: chapter-by-chapter electronic releases first to my 
community, then to the community at large; books accumulated when 
critical mass dictates and released first electronically and then in 
print; order of things determined in large part by community voting.

First chapter for Volume 2 -- which will cover CGI development and use 
-- next week.

Don't just sit there, revolt!


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Dan Shafer, Revolutionary
Author of  "Revolution: Software at the Speed of Thought"
http://www.revolutionpros.com for more info
Available at Runtime Revolution Store (http://www.runrev.com/RevPress)


From xbury.cs at clearstream.com  Fri Feb  6 11:44:10 2004
From: xbury.cs at clearstream.com (xbury.cs at clearstream.com)
Date: Fri, 6 Feb 2004 17:44:10 +0100
Subject: Revolution 2.1 IDE speed/performance issues - normal?
Message-ID: <OFACE82906.B986DE13-ONC1256E32.005BC36F-C1256E32.005BEF8D@deutsche-boerse.de>

Quicktime may have something to do but I assure you that even without it a 
P4 1800 MHz
or a dual proc XEON W2K, NT4 will be spiked at 100 in almost any loop... 

Infinite loops are not recommended in MC or RR...

---------------------=---------------------
Xavier Bury
Clearstream Services
TNS NT LAN Server
ext 36465
Voice: +352 4656 43 6465
Fax: +352 4656 493 6465




"Andrew Heil" <heilandrew at attbi.com>
Sent by: use-revolution-admin at lists.runrev.com
08/09/03 23:25
Please respond to use-revolution

 
        To:     <use-revolution at lists.runrev.com>
        cc: 
        Subject:        Re: Revolution 2.1 IDE speed/performance issues - normal?

.


Alex Rice wrote:

>Not normal! I use Rev on equivalent machines as you and it's very fast.
>The property inspector, script editor, app browser all open up in <= 1
>second. Compiled apps are quick as well.
>
>Mac G4/466 Mhz
>500 Mhz x86 laptop
>
>One possible gotcha to watch out for is that opening up or searching in
>the Documentation window in the Rev IDE uses significant amount of RAM.
>
>Other than that I have no ideas right now- sorry

RAM usage doesn't seem to be the issue, but every time Revolution opens up 
a
form, CPU usage spikes to 100%, then goes back down.  I wonder if 
QuickTime has
anything to do with it; Revolution loads 13 QT modules when it starts on 
this
computer.

Anyway, thanks for the reply.

- Andrew

_______________________________________________
use-revolution mailing list
use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution




Visit us at http://www.clearstream.com
                                                          
IMPORTANT MESSAGE

Internet communications are not secure and therefore Clearstream International does not accept legal responsibility for the contents of this message.

The information contained in this e-mail is confidential and may be legally privileged. It is intended solely for the addressee. If you are not the intended recipient, any disclosure, copying, distribution or any action taken or omitted to be taken in reliance on it, is prohibited and may be unlawful. Any views expressed in this e-mail are those of the individual sender, except where the sender specifically states them to be the views of Clearstream International or of any of its affiliates or subsidiaries.

END OF DISCLAIMER

From t.hampson at x2digital.net  Fri Feb  6 11:44:01 2004
From: t.hampson at x2digital.net (Thomas Hampson)
Date: Fri, 6 Feb 2004 16:44:01 -0000
Subject: Compression and Decompression of multiple files
Message-ID: <000b01c3ecd0$75913870$6b834c51@LAPTOP>

I have been able to compress single files into a gzip compression
archive however I need a way of compressing the contents of more than
one file (for example, the entire contents of a folder or a even as much
as a drive). All these files need to be compressed into a single gzip
archive so that they can ALL be decompressed using revolution later.
 
I have tried many ways and means to get this to work, everything from
separating filenames with commas, using the & and even compressing two
files using separate lines to the same gzip archive, eg.:
 
Compress (URL ("binfile:" & "c:\test\test.txt")) into URL
("binfile:c:\test\testzip.gz")
Compress (URL ("binfile:" & "c:\test\test2.txt")) into URL
("binfile:c:\test\testzip.gz")
 
Yet this does not work either.
 
Has anyone got any ideas as to how revolution could compress the files
and subfolders of a folder?
 
Kind Regards,
X2

From xbury.cs at clearstream.com  Fri Feb  6 11:46:40 2004
From: xbury.cs at clearstream.com (xbury.cs at clearstream.com)
Date: Fri, 6 Feb 2004 17:46:40 +0100
Subject: Revolution 2.1 IDE speed/performance issues - normal?
Message-ID: <OF2C799A19.3C221F54-ONC1256E32.005C09D3-C1256E32.005C2A86@deutsche-boerse.de>

LOTUS NOTES SUCKS...

Sorry about this stale reply... 

Lotus notes is made to confuse you even more than Outlook!

Sarah, can you make a nice corporate email client? ;))

And we have to be efficient using a cromagnon IT tool...
---------------------=---------------------
Xavier Bury
Clearstream Services
TNS NT LAN Server





xbury.cs at clearstream.com
Sent by: use-revolution-bounces at lists.runrev.com
06/02/04 17:44
Please respond to How to use Revolution

 
        To:     use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
        cc: 
        Subject:        Re: Revolution 2.1 IDE speed/performance issues - normal?

.


Quicktime may have something to do but I assure you that even without it a 

P4 1800 MHz
or a dual proc XEON W2K, NT4 will be spiked at 100 in almost any loop... 

Infinite loops are not recommended in MC or RR...

---------------------=---------------------
Xavier Bury
Clearstream Services
TNS NT LAN Server
ext 36465
Voice: +352 4656 43 6465
Fax: +352 4656 493 6465




"Andrew Heil" <heilandrew at attbi.com>
Sent by: use-revolution-admin at lists.runrev.com
08/09/03 23:25
Please respond to use-revolution

 
        To:     <use-revolution at lists.runrev.com>
        cc: 
        Subject:        Re: Revolution 2.1 IDE speed/performance issues - 
normal?

.


Alex Rice wrote:

>Not normal! I use Rev on equivalent machines as you and it's very fast.
>The property inspector, script editor, app browser all open up in <= 1
>second. Compiled apps are quick as well.
>
>Mac G4/466 Mhz
>500 Mhz x86 laptop
>
>One possible gotcha to watch out for is that opening up or searching in
>the Documentation window in the Rev IDE uses significant amount of RAM.
>
>Other than that I have no ideas right now- sorry

RAM usage doesn't seem to be the issue, but every time Revolution opens up 

a
form, CPU usage spikes to 100%, then goes back down.  I wonder if 
QuickTime has
anything to do with it; Revolution loads 13 QT modules when it starts on 
this
computer.

Anyway, thanks for the reply.

- Andrew

_______________________________________________
use-revolution mailing list
use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution




Visit us at http://www.clearstream.com
 
IMPORTANT MESSAGE

Internet communications are not secure and therefore Clearstream 
International does not accept legal responsibility for the contents of 
this message.

The information contained in this e-mail is confidential and may be 
legally privileged. It is intended solely for the addressee. If you are 
not the intended recipient, any disclosure, copying, distribution or any 
action taken or omitted to be taken in reliance on it, is prohibited and 
may be unlawful. Any views expressed in this e-mail are those of the 
individual sender, except where the sender specifically states them to be 
the views of Clearstream International or of any of its affiliates or 
subsidiaries.

END OF DISCLAIMER
_______________________________________________
use-revolution mailing list
use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution



From kray at sonsothunder.com  Fri Feb  6 11:52:46 2004
From: kray at sonsothunder.com (Ken Ray)
Date: Fri, 6 Feb 2004 10:52:46 -0600
Subject: How do you pass authentication on the command line?
In-Reply-To: <p06020414bc48f71030b5@[192.168.123.7]>
Message-ID: <01de01c3ecd1$b37d28f0$6601a8c0@LightningFlash>

Thanks, Dave and Sarah... I'll let you know how it goes.

Ken Ray
Sons of Thunder Software
Email: kray at sonsothunder.com
Web Site: http://www.sonsothunder.com/ 



From kray at sonsothunder.com  Fri Feb  6 11:52:46 2004
From: kray at sonsothunder.com (Ken Ray)
Date: Fri, 6 Feb 2004 10:52:46 -0600
Subject: bugzilla "Open a new account" link
In-Reply-To: <337CA0B4-58BF-11D8-9E62-000A95859272@earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <01dd01c3ecd1$b05c12d0$6601a8c0@LightningFlash>

Mark, Bugzilla has been down for the last couple of days for
maintenance. See the message from Mark Chia titled "Bug Database" that
was sent 2/3. It should be back up today sometime according to the
email...

Ken Ray
Sons of Thunder Software
Email: kray at sonsothunder.com
Web Site: http://www.sonsothunder.com/ 

> -----Original Message-----
> From: use-revolution-bounces at lists.runrev.com 
> [mailto:use-revolution-bounces at lists.runrev.com] On Behalf Of 
> Mark Brownell
> Sent: Friday, February 06, 2004 10:12 AM
> To: How to use Revolution
> Subject: bugzilla "Open a new account" link
> 
> 
> I guess I need to report that the webmaster has a bug. Item # 
> 1 below?  
> Could some kind sole please direct me to the secret location 
> referred  
> to in item # 1. The "Open a new account" does not appear while  
> searching everywhere for it. All I wanted to do is read 
> bug...id=379. Perhaps this is fixed in the latest version of Rev?
> 
> From:
> http://www.runrev.com/Revolution1/bugzilla/index.html
> "Creating an account
> 
> Any person reporting a bug has to create a unique bug 
> database account.  
> To create an account:
> 
> 1.	Click on the "Open a new account" link and fill in the 
> required  
> information.
> 
> 2.	You will be emailed your unique password for use on the system."
> 
> 
> I'm trying to get to the bottom of this:
> 
> No. See  Bugzilla (2003-08-19):
> 
http://www.runrev.com/revolution/developers/bugdatabase/ 
show_bug.cgi?id=379

 >  > The app works fine when running under OS X and OS 9 but fails when
 >>  running in the Classic environment. When I say fails, it starts up

OK,
 >>  it's just that it doesn't actually read any data from the  >>
requested files. Thinking that it was a path issue, I queried the  >>
existence of the files at the requested paths (if there is a file  >>
<filePath>), presuming that the problem was path related. The answer  >>
was true but the data was none! Same response even if I resorted to  >>
using the answer file dialog.  >>  >>  Am I missing something basic here
or is this a real problem?  >  >I think this is an actual problem.  I
was looking at a project today  
that
 >exhibited the same problem.  Works fine in OS X.2.8 and fine in OS 9  
but
 >in Classic it fails to read the file.  This was using the get url  
method
 >rather than open file.
 >

Same here, both get url and open/read methods fail (my app actually uses
the former, I only really tried the open/read method in an attempt to
isolate the problem).



Thanks,
Mark

_______________________________________________
use-revolution mailing list
use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution



From rjb at rz.uni-potsdam.de  Fri Feb  6 11:56:24 2004
From: rjb at rz.uni-potsdam.de (Robert Brenstein)
Date: Fri, 6 Feb 2004 17:56:24 +0100
Subject: bugzilla "Open a new account" link
In-Reply-To: <337CA0B4-58BF-11D8-9E62-000A95859272@earthlink.net>
References: <337CA0B4-58BF-11D8-9E62-000A95859272@earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <a06020408bc4977486867@[141.89.100.235]>

>I guess I need to report that the webmaster has a bug. Item # 1 
>below? Could some kind sole please direct me to the secret location 
>referred to in item # 1. The "Open a new account" does not appear 
>while searching everywhere for it. All I wanted to do is read
>bug...id=379. Perhaps this is fixed in the latest version of Rev?
>
>From:
>http://www.runrev.com/Revolution1/bugzilla/index.html
>"Creating an account
>
>Any person reporting a bug has to create a unique bug database 
>account. To create an account:
>
>1.	Click on the "Open a new account" link and fill in the 
>required information.
>
>2.	You will be emailed your unique password for use on the system."
>
>
>I'm trying to get to the bottom of this:
>
>No. See  Bugzilla (2003-08-19):
>
>http://www.runrev.com/revolution/developers/bugdatabase/show_bug.cgi?id=379
>

If you get a dialog asking you to sign into a REALM "Bug Database", 
then Bugzilla is still offline for maintenance. RunRev is overhauling 
it. I hope we like what we see when it is back online.

Robert

From gizmotron at earthlink.net  Fri Feb  6 12:07:36 2004
From: gizmotron at earthlink.net (Mark Brownell)
Date: Fri, 6 Feb 2004 09:07:36 -0800
Subject: bugzilla "Open a new account" link
In-Reply-To: <01dd01c3ecd1$b05c12d0$6601a8c0@LightningFlash>
Message-ID: <F5EFBFEA-58C6-11D8-B947-000A95859272@earthlink.net>


On Friday, February 6, 2004, at 08:52  AM, Ken Ray wrote:

> Mark, Bugzilla has been down for the last couple of days for
> maintenance. See the message from Mark Chia titled "Bug Database" that
> was sent 2/3. It should be back up today sometime according to the
> email...
>
> Ken Ray


Oh what a frigging dork brain I am... I forgot that it went down for 
updating on Wednesday night.....  duh!

Thanks,
Mark


From gizmotron at earthlink.net  Fri Feb  6 12:08:55 2004
From: gizmotron at earthlink.net (Mark Brownell)
Date: Fri, 6 Feb 2004 09:08:55 -0800
Subject: bugzilla "Open a new account" link
In-Reply-To: <a06020408bc4977486867@[141.89.100.235]>
Message-ID: <25512730-58C7-11D8-B947-000A95859272@earthlink.net>


On Friday, February 6, 2004, at 08:56  AM, Robert Brenstein wrote:

> If you get a dialog asking you to sign into a REALM "Bug Database", 
> then Bugzilla is still offline for maintenance. RunRev is overhauling 
> it. I hope we like what we see when it is back online.
>
> Robert


Thanks, I forgot...

Mark


From stephenREVOLUTION at barncard.com  Fri Feb  6 12:10:05 2004
From: stephenREVOLUTION at barncard.com (Stephen Quinn Barncard)
Date: Fri, 6 Feb 2004 09:10:05 -0800
Subject: Dan's Book
Message-ID: <p06020404bc497a970713@[192.168.1.100]>

Dan's books on Hypercard were the bible for many of us back in 
Hypercard times...


>Dear Dan.
>10/10, 100%, 5 gold stars etc. THE best beginners computer book I 
>have ever encountered.
>
>Thanks
>
>Dr. Bob
>

From alex at mindlube.com  Fri Feb  6 12:27:36 2004
From: alex at mindlube.com (Alex Rice)
Date: Fri, 6 Feb 2004 10:27:36 -0700
Subject: Compression and Decompression of multiple files
In-Reply-To: <000b01c3ecd0$75913870$6b834c51@LAPTOP>
References: <000b01c3ecd0$75913870$6b834c51@LAPTOP>
Message-ID: <C1B90EB5-58C9-11D8-BF4A-000393C4760A@mindlube.com>


On Feb 6, 2004, at 9:44 AM, Thomas Hampson wrote:
>
> Has anyone got any ideas as to how revolution could compress the files
> and subfolders of a folder?

Maybe search the list archives- I'm sure this has come up in the past.  
The problem is Gzip is just a single file or single stream compression 
tool. You would have to use ZIP or TAR, or something else from a shell 
command, to get multiple files into an archive.

How about this as an alternative? Use a data stack as a container for 
multiple files:

(untested)

-- archive
go stack "archive.rev"
set the uFile1 of this stack to URL "binfile:file1.txt"
set the uFile2 of this stack to URL "binfile:file2.txt"
...
save this stack
put compress(URL "binfile:archive.rev") into URL "archive-rev.gz"

-- unarchive
put uncompress(URL "binfile:archive-rev.gz") into URL "archive.rev"
go stack "archive.rev"
put the uFile1 of me to URL "file1.txt"
put the uFile2 of me to URL "file2.txt"
...

There could be commands to loop through lists of files to make it more 
flexible. I haven't tested any of this but it seems like it would work 
OK

on mouseup
   local tFileList
   create stack "gzArchiveTest"
   put "binfile:/Users/alex/Desktop/apg.pdf" & linefeed after tFileList
   put "binfile:/Users/alex/Desktop/bpg.pdf" & linefeed after tFileList
   put "binfile:/Users/alex/Desktop/es-screens.pdf" & linefeed after 
tFileList
   gzArchiveAddFiles "gzArchiveTest", tFileList
end mouseup

on gzArchiveAddFiles pStackname, pFileList
   local tLastStack, tLine, tLineNo, tPropName

   put this stack into tLastStack
   if there is not a stack pStackname then exit gzArchiveAddFiles
   go stack pStackname
   if the short name of this stack <> pStackname then ext 
gzArchiveAddFiles
   set the uFileCount of this stack to the number of lines of pFileList
   set the uManifest of this stack to pFileList 	
   repeat for each line tLine in pFileList
     add 1 to tLineNo
     if tLine = empty then next repeat
     put "uFile" & tLineNo into tPropName
     set the tPropName of this stack to URL tLine
   end repeat
   go stack tLastStack
end gzArchiveAddFiles


--
Alex Rice | Mindlube Software | http://mindlube.com


From jmac at consensustech.com  Fri Feb  6 12:28:06 2004
From: jmac at consensustech.com (Jim MacConnell)
Date: Fri, 06 Feb 2004 09:28:06 -0800
Subject: Image rotation confusion
Message-ID: <BC490EA6.28DA%jmac@consensustech.com>

Listees....

I am trying to do something simple but it is giving me fits.

I have an image ?FullSize? that is 600 pixels wide by 300 tall
I have a small version ?ThumbSize? that is 100 by 50 (made by putting
?FullSize? into it and shrinking)
I referenced the ?ThumbSize? in a field using imageSource
I click on the table and put a copy of the appropriate image in a preview
image ?PhotoPreview? (about 240 x 120)


Now the fun... 
I select a folder and it loads ?Fullsize?, creates ?Thumbsize?, puts it in
the field and hides the originals. I click on ?ThumbSize? in the field to
select the image and it loads into ?PhotoPreview?. I now want to rotate the
image by clicking on a ?Rotate? button. For each click, I want to see the
?PhotoPreview? image rotate clockwise 90 degrees. When it?s in the right
orientation I want to set the ?Fullsize? and the ?Thumbsize? to the correct
orientation.

So what have I tried....
1. Using Rotate by ?90 screws up the image so it looks awful (right side
contains fuzz?).. And it gets worse and worse as I continue rotating... NG
2. Using ?set the angle of ?PhotoPreview? to x? makes the rotation clean but
when I try to apply the ?set angle to? to  ?Thumbsize?, the image in the
field (imageSource) goes large and I can?t get it resized.......
3. Using lockLocation to keep the image from resizing but.... Then when I
?set the angle? of it , the image is all stretched out so I have to adjust
width, etc.


Using a combination of 2 & 3, I can get close but.. .sometimes
?PhotoPreview? has garbage after I click in the field... (Related to
LockLocation being true?)
Sometimes it shows a clean image but it is large (that?s when lockLocation
is false?) 

 So.. Bottomline. I know set angle only works on the displayed image and I
know lockLocation keeps things the same size..... . Fine but how do I get
around the resizing that is going on and actually rotate my ?ThumbSize? so
it shows correctly in the field?

I know I?m missing something simple but have used up more than enough time
on this thing have have to move on....any hints.. Help.

Thanks,

Jim



From kray at sonsothunder.com  Fri Feb  6 12:21:47 2004
From: kray at sonsothunder.com (Ken Ray)
Date: Fri, 6 Feb 2004 11:21:47 -0600
Subject: How do you pass authentication on the command line?
In-Reply-To: <p06020414bc48f71030b5@[192.168.123.7]>
Message-ID: <01f201c3ecd5$b71e95d0$6601a8c0@LightningFlash>

Thanks, Dave! I'll try it out.

Ken Ray
Sons of Thunder Software
Email: kray at sonsothunder.com
Web Site: http://www.sonsothunder.com/ 

> -----Original Message-----
> From: use-revolution-bounces at lists.runrev.com 
> [mailto:use-revolution-bounces at lists.runrev.com] On Behalf Of 
> Dave Cragg
> Sent: Friday, February 06, 2004 1:50 AM
> To: 'How to use Revolution'; 'Improvements to Revolution'
> Subject: Re: How do you pass authentication on the command line?
> 
> 
> At 1:01 am -0600 6/2/04, Ken Ray wrote:
> >I have a situation where I've got Panther running on my G4 
> and it has 
> >Web Services turned on. A Rev CGI is running that reaches out of the 
> >web server directory to another directory on disk to write a 
> text file 
> >in a specific folder. However once it does this, the owner 
> of the file 
> >is "www" (with read/write permissions) and the group is 
> "wheel" (read 
> >only
> >permission) and the "Other" also only has read-only 
> permission. What I
> >then need to do is have another standalone Rev app on the 
> same machine
> >open, edit, and save back to that same file. The problem is 
> that I can't
> >do that with the current permissions, and the only way I 
> know to make it
> >happen is to do a "sudo chown" through the terminal... but 
> it asks for
> >password authentication. I need to be able to do it straight 
> from Rev.
> >
> >So how do you "sudo" via shell() in Rev and pass 
> authentication on the 
> >command line?
> 
> Not answering your question exactly, but couldn't you have the CGI 
> script do a chmod on the file with shell just after it saves it. This 
> won't need sudo as the CGI runs as the owner of the file and can 
> change permissions. I just tested here and it worked.
> 
> Cheers
> Dave
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com 
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-> revolution
> 



From alex at mindlube.com  Fri Feb  6 13:07:28 2004
From: alex at mindlube.com (Alex Rice)
Date: Fri, 6 Feb 2004 11:07:28 -0700
Subject: How do you pass authentication on the command line?
In-Reply-To: <p06020414bc48f71030b5@[192.168.123.7]>
References: <016601c3ec7f$0b301c90$6601a8c0@LightningFlash>
	<p06020414bc48f71030b5@[192.168.123.7]>
Message-ID: <53005367-58CF-11D8-8BF5-000393C4760A@mindlube.com>


On Feb 6, 2004, at 12:50 AM, Dave Cragg wrote:

> Not answering your question exactly, but couldn't you have the CGI 
> script do a chmod on the file with shell just after it saves it. This 
> won't need sudo as the CGI runs as the owner of the file and can 
> change permissions. I just tested here and it worked.

Actually in many CGI setups, a CGI script runs as "nobody"  or "www" or 
whatever user the httpd process is running as, regardless of who owns 
the script files. According to the Apache docs: "Normally, when a CGI 
or SSI program executes, it  runs as the same user who is running the 
web server."

suExec is a feature that cause CGI scripts to run as a different user.
See <http://httpd.apache.org/docs-2.0/suexec.html>

Ken- for your problem, I think you should aim for creating the file 
with the correct ownership in the first place, not trying to pass 
permissions to a chown command.

I think suExec would be the best solution for you, then all of user 
"ken"'s scripts will be running as "ken" not as "www".

Alternatively you may be able to use a suid script:

# as user "ken"
chmod a+x some-script.mc
chmod +s some-script.mc

Now some-script.mc should run as "ken", even if the web server is 
running the script as the user "www".

--
Alex Rice | Mindlube Software | http://mindlube.com


From scott at tactilemedia.com  Fri Feb  6 13:36:13 2004
From: scott at tactilemedia.com (Scott Rossi)
Date: Fri, 06 Feb 2004 10:36:13 -0800
Subject: Image rotation confusion
In-Reply-To: <BC490EA6.28DA%jmac@consensustech.com>
Message-ID: <BC491E9D.A081%scott@tactilemedia.com>

Recently, "Jim MacConnell"  wrote:

> I have an image ?FullSize? that is 600 pixels wide by 300 tall
> I have a small version ?ThumbSize? that is 100 by 50 (made by putting
> ?FullSize? into it and shrinking)
> I referenced the ?ThumbSize? in a field using imageSource
> I click on the table and put a copy of the appropriate image in a preview
> image ?PhotoPreview? (about 240 x 120)
> 
> 
> Now the fun... 
> I select a folder and it loads ?Fullsize?, creates ?Thumbsize?, puts it in
> the field and hides the originals. I click on ?ThumbSize? in the field to
> select the image and it loads into ?PhotoPreview?. I now want to rotate the
> image by clicking on a ?Rotate? button. For each click, I want to see the
> ?PhotoPreview? image rotate clockwise 90 degrees. When it?s in the right
> orientation I want to set the ?Fullsize? and the ?Thumbsize? to the correct
> orientation.
> 
> So what have I tried....
> 1. Using Rotate by ?90 screws up the image so it looks awful (right side
> contains fuzz?).. And it gets worse and worse as I continue rotating... NG
> 2. Using ?set the angle of ?PhotoPreview? to x? makes the rotation clean but
> when I try to apply the ?set angle to? to  ?Thumbsize?, the image in the
> field (imageSource) goes large and I can?t get it resized.......
> 3. Using lockLocation to keep the image from resizing but.... Then when I
> ?set the angle? of it , the image is all stretched out so I have to adjust
> width, etc.

An interesting graphics problem.  I can't recall if there's any way to get a
reduced image into another image other than a screen capture (snapshot).
It's probably not optimal, but you might be able to find some way to use the
example posted below.  Type the following in your message box:

 go url "http://www.tactilemedia.com/download/imgRotate.rev"

This relies on being able to capture the screen, so you cannot hide the
reduced fullsize image, and I'm pretty sure you can't position the fullsize
image offscreen or the capture will fail (try some tests to be sure).

Without knowing your situation, I'd guess one way to do what you want might
be to build a set of thumbnails at startup, and rotate (set the angle) of
those only.  Then apply your rotation to fullsize image/s afterward.

Someone else might be able to offer another suggestion.

Regards,

Scott Rossi
Creative Director
Tactile Media, Multimedia & Design
-----
E: scott at tactilemedia.com
W: http://www.tactilemedia.com


From dcragg at lacscentre.co.uk  Fri Feb  6 13:59:59 2004
From: dcragg at lacscentre.co.uk (Dave Cragg)
Date: Fri, 6 Feb 2004 18:59:59 +0000
Subject: How do you pass authentication on the command line?
In-Reply-To: <53005367-58CF-11D8-8BF5-000393C4760A@mindlube.com>
References: <016601c3ec7f$0b301c90$6601a8c0@LightningFlash>
 <p06020414bc48f71030b5@[192.168.123.7]>
 <53005367-58CF-11D8-8BF5-000393C4760A@mindlube.com>
Message-ID: <p06020418bc4993cfeda4@[192.168.123.7]>

At 11:07 am -0700 6/2/04, Alex Rice wrote:
>On Feb 6, 2004, at 12:50 AM, Dave Cragg wrote:
>
>>  Not answering your question exactly, but couldn't you have the CGI
>>script do a chmod on the file with shell just after it saves it.
>>This won't need sudo as the CGI runs as the owner of the file and
>>can change permissions. I just tested here and it worked.
>
>Actually in many CGI setups, a CGI script runs as "nobody"  or "www"
>or whatever user the httpd process is running as, regardless of who
>owns the script files. According to the Apache docs: "Normally, when
>a CGI or SSI program executes, it  runs as the same user who is
>running the web server."

That's right. So when the CGI script creates a file, the new file's 
owner is whatever name the script is running under (nobody, www, 
etc.). So the running CGI script can change permissions on it.

Dave

From rgmiller at pacbell.net  Fri Feb  6 14:21:08 2004
From: rgmiller at pacbell.net (Ray G. Miller)
Date: Fri, 06 Feb 2004 11:21:08 -0800
Subject: Setting the window rect and splitter loc in the Variable
References: <20040206034443.01F5C930289@mail.runrev.com>
Message-ID: <4023E924.4060508@pacbell.net>

From: Sarah Reichelt <sarahr at genesearch.com.au>


> It drove me crazy that the VW window kept resetting, so I worked out 
> this technique: open it up and set it how you would like it. Then hold 
> down ALL the modifier keys (Shift, Control, Option & Command) and click 
> in the Variable Watcher.


Do you use your elbow to hold'em down or ask the cat for help?

;-)


Ray G. Miller
__________________
Turtlelips Productions
4009 Everett Ave.
Oakland, CA 94602
MailTo:rgmiller at pacbell.net
(V) 510.530.1971
(F) 510.482.3491




From hershbp at realtorsgroup.us  Fri Feb  6 14:26:59 2004
From: hershbp at realtorsgroup.us (hershrev)
Date: Fri, 6 Feb 2004 14:26:59 -0500
Subject: Database GUI logic 
In-Reply-To: <20040206104417.38175.qmail@web60505.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <6F3189EE-58DA-11D8-8180-0030654C1E62@realtorsgroup.us>


On Friday, February 6, 2004, at 05:44 AM, Jan Schenkel wrote:

> --- hershrev <hershbp at realtorsgroup.us> wrote:
>> Hi every one.
>> What is the best way to select a DB record into a
>> form view window with
>> multiple fields ? (not with the db manager ,because
>> I don't want to
>> give the user access to the data itself to tamper
>> with, to avoid
>> corruption.)
>> Thanks hershrev
>>
>
> Hi Hershrev,
>
> Using the database-linked fields doesn't mean you
> _have_to_ update each field as soon as it is changed.
>
> Just link all the fields, checkboxes and option menus,
> but don't set them to update after editing.
> Then add a button, go to the Database panel of the
> property palette, and set its action to 'Update
> Record' -- and presto, when the user edits data,
> nothing is saved, until he clicks this button.
>
All functions work except update. (PostgreSQL)
How do switch between query's ? In other words once I need a SELECT and 
sometime I need an INSERT and so on.
Also the bottom line about the same code needs to be written as put 
revSelect(or Form)Query(......).into field a put 
revSelectQuery(....).into field b and so on and then to write an UPDATE 
SQL on all concatenated fields with revExecuteSQL and with some playing 
around its also portable to different db's.
Or maybe to put all the info at once into a variable or an Array and 
the select from it cell by cell?
> Hope this helped,
Thanks hershrev
>
> Jan Schenkel.
>
> =====
> "As we grow older, we grow both wiser and more foolish at the same 
> time."  (La Rochefoucauld)
>
> __________________________________
> Do you Yahoo!?
> Yahoo! Finance: Get your refund fast by filing online.
> http://taxes.yahoo.com/filing.html
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>


From alex at mindlube.com  Fri Feb  6 14:44:00 2004
From: alex at mindlube.com (Alex Rice)
Date: Fri, 6 Feb 2004 12:44:00 -0700
Subject: How do you pass authentication on the command line?
In-Reply-To: <p06020418bc4993cfeda4@[192.168.123.7]>
References: <016601c3ec7f$0b301c90$6601a8c0@LightningFlash>
	<p06020414bc48f71030b5@[192.168.123.7]>
	<53005367-58CF-11D8-8BF5-000393C4760A@mindlube.com>
	<p06020418bc4993cfeda4@[192.168.123.7]>
Message-ID: <CFB34414-58DC-11D8-8BF5-000393C4760A@mindlube.com>


On Feb 6, 2004, at 11:59 AM, Dave Cragg wrote:
> That's right. So when the CGI script creates a file, the new file's 
> owner is whatever name the script is running under (nobody, www, 
> etc.). So the running CGI script can change permissions on it.

I believe Ken wanted to chown (change owner) of the file, not chmod it. 
Therefore the whole problem about "sudo chown".

--
Alex Rice | Mindlube Software | http://mindlube.com


From revolution at jaedworks.com  Fri Feb  6 03:14:43 2004
From: revolution at jaedworks.com (Jeanne A. E. DeVoto)
Date: Fri, 6 Feb 2004 00:14:43 -0800
Subject: Labels and labeled Fields
Message-ID: <p060102eebc48fd6e5429@[10.0.1.3]>

At 1:20 PM -0700 2/3/04, Dar Scott wrote:
>I find that setting up label fields and (more so) data fields with 
>associated label fields to be very tedious.  Ideas?  Perhaps I am 
>doing all this the hard way.

Somewhere in Bugzilla, there's a feature request to turn on the label 
property for fields. (Right now it exists and can be set, but it 
doesn't do anything.)

My idea was that if the field's height is less than two lines, the 
label is placed to the left of the field; otherwise, it's placed at 
the top, aligned with the left. That should take care of the most 
common cases, I think.
-- 
jeanne a. e. devoto ~ jaed at jaedworks.com
http://www.jaedworks.com

From revolution at jaedworks.com  Fri Feb  6 03:14:33 2004
From: revolution at jaedworks.com (Jeanne A. E. DeVoto)
Date: Fri, 6 Feb 2004 00:14:33 -0800
Subject: Andy's comments and positioning...
Message-ID: <p060102edbc48fd5f50a9@[10.0.1.3]>

At 8:52 AM -0800 2/5/04, Richard Gaskin wrote:
>Aiming the marketing message at pros also benefits sales to hobbyists:
>while professionals won't touch a tool seen as aimed at hobbyists, every
>hobbyist wants to feel they're using a tool capable of professional results.

Exactly. I've always felt that the hobbyist-level and 
professional-level markets can potentiate each other:

- Educators don't hesitate to teach programming with the hobbyist/edu 
version, since they don't need to worry that they're teaching 
students a language that they won't be able to use later on

- Hobbyists know they can move to a professional tool if and when 
they get more serious

- Professionals drive new features, which also benefits hobbyist users

- Hobbyists moving up the learning curve form the pool from which new pros come

But for this to work well, it's important to "start at the top". 
Position yourself as a professional tool, then bring out a version 
for hobbyists, and the latter product gets the perceptual benefit of 
association with a pro-level product. Do it the other way around - 
first position yourself as a hobbyist tool, then bring out a pro 
version - and you'll have trouble getting respect.

[channeling Aretha Franklin] ;-)
-- 
jeanne a. e. devoto ~ jaed at jaedworks.com
http://www.jaedworks.com

From kray at sonsothunder.com  Fri Feb  6 15:19:12 2004
From: kray at sonsothunder.com (Ken Ray)
Date: Fri, 6 Feb 2004 14:19:12 -0600
Subject: How do you pass authentication on the command line?
In-Reply-To: <53005367-58CF-11D8-8BF5-000393C4760A@mindlube.com>
Message-ID: <022201c3ecee$807b1f30$6601a8c0@LightningFlash>

> I think suExec would be the best solution for you, then all of user 
> "ken"'s scripts will be running as "ken" not as "www".
> 
> Alternatively you may be able to use a suid script:
> 
> # as user "ken"
> chmod a+x some-script.mc
> chmod +s some-script.mc
> 
> Now some-script.mc should run as "ken", even if the web server is 
> running the script as the user "www".

That worked really well, Alex... I was able to do this via Terminal and
everything works fine now. Now I noticed that this was using bash and
not tcsh; Panther automatically used bash in Terminal, but Jaguar was
using tcsh and I had to run bash separately before I could apply your
changes above. So two questions: 

  1) If I were to want to run the script above from Rev, how would I
concatenate multiple commands in a single shell()?
  2) If the OS is currently running tcsh, how would I add invoking bash
before the script lines above using shell()?

Thanks in advance,

Ken Ray
Sons of Thunder Software
Email: kray at sonsothunder.com
Web Site: http://www.sonsothunder.com/ 



From gbojsza at mac.com  Fri Feb  6 15:28:52 2004
From: gbojsza at mac.com (Bojsza)
Date: Fri, 6 Feb 2004 14:28:52 -0600
Subject: Revolution Linux Users
Message-ID: <141EFEF8-58E3-11D8-A9F8-003065F00EF2@mac.com>

I was wondering if there are many Revolution Linux developers around.

thanks,

Glen


From erikhans08 at yahoo.com  Fri Feb  6 15:42:40 2004
From: erikhans08 at yahoo.com (erik hansen)
Date: Fri, 6 Feb 2004 12:42:40 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Let Rev's Light Shine...or Watch It Go Out
In-Reply-To: <BC47FF06.3CBFF%ambassador@fourthworld.com>
Message-ID: <20040206204240.22985.qmail@web61101.mail.yahoo.com>

--- Richard Gaskin <ambassador at fourthworld.com>
wrote:
> If one really wants to support Rev effectively
> there's a much more visible
> way to do it: consider adding a page at your
> site offering Rev info, tools,
> or even just a description of how your clients
> benefit from your using Rev.
> Your About box only goes as far as you can
> throw it, but Google is
> everywhere....

the link to this page usually uses the attractive
RunRev logo. is this authorized bu RunRev?

=====
erik at erikhansen.org    http://www.erikhansen.org

__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Finance: Get your refund fast by filing online.
http://taxes.yahoo.com/filing.html

From zelston at aol.com  Fri Feb  6 15:45:27 2004
From: zelston at aol.com (Zac Elston)
Date: Fri, 6 Feb 2004 15:45:27 -0500
Subject: FileInfo
Message-ID: <4023FCE7.1050609@aol.com>

found a bug in the fileinfo function that was posted here a while back.

the previous version was


function FileInfo pPath
   local tFile, tSaveDir, tFiles, tFileInfo
   set the itemdel to "/"
   put urlEncode(last item of pPath) into tFile
   delete last item of pPath
   put the directory into tSaveDir
   set the directory to pPath
   put the detailed files into tFiles
   set the directory to tSaveDir
   get lineoffset(tFile, tFiles)
   if it > 0 then
     return line it of tFiles
   end if
end FileInfo

on
get lineoffset(tFile, tFiles)
a match will occur for files that are named with the same begining.

so looking for the details of file.txt
would match on the first occurance of file.txt , including file.txt.v1

in my case, i'm scrapping webservers logs that are rotated nightly.

so looking for access_log would match on access_log.$date

while it's rare that this would occur for most others, the function only 
matches on a substring not the entire filename

so I just did  an item search.  anyone got a beter method?

function FileInfo pPath
--set the wholeMatches to true
--that didn't help
   local tFile, tSaveDir, tFiles, tFileInfo
   set the itemdel to "/"
   put urlEncode(last item of pPath) into tFile
   delete last item of pPath
   put the directory into tSaveDir
   set the directory to pPath
   put the detailed files into tFiles
   set the directory to tSaveDir
   set the itemdel to ","
         repeat with x = 1 to the number of lines in tFiles
    if item 1 of line x of tFiles  = tFile
        then
            return line x of tFiles
        end if
    end repeat
end FileInfo


-zac



From erikhans08 at yahoo.com  Fri Feb  6 15:49:22 2004
From: erikhans08 at yahoo.com (erik hansen)
Date: Fri, 6 Feb 2004 12:49:22 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Andy's comments and positioning...
In-Reply-To: <BC4938CD.2A3F0%kevin@runrev.com>
Message-ID: <20040206204922.10334.qmail@web61103.mail.yahoo.com>

--- Kevin Miller <kevin at runrev.com> wrote:

> Essentially what we are going to be doing more
> and more over the next few
> versions is to differentiate Express from
> Revolution.  So we have two
> product lines: "Revolution" which contains
> Studio and Enterprise aimed at
> professional developers; and Express which is
> aimed at the entry-level.  We
> have a number of ideas about how to best manage
> this differentiation in
> terms of feature sets, pricing, promotion and
> support.  We'll be introducing
> this over time - still preserving options for
> the existing user base, but
> more clearly differentiating where new users
> join the Revolution.

for school labs, a version that is affordable
but allows students into the development
environment would be a great way to
promote programming skills.


=====
erik at erikhansen.org    http://www.erikhansen.org

__________________________________
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From ambassador at fourthworld.com  Fri Feb  6 15:49:22 2004
From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin)
Date: Fri, 06 Feb 2004 12:49:22 -0800
Subject: Let Rev's Light Shine...or Watch It Go Out
In-Reply-To: <20040206204240.22985.qmail@web61101.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <BC493DD2.3CD02%ambassador@fourthworld.com>

erik hansen wrote:

> --- Richard Gaskin <ambassador at fourthworld.com>
> wrote:
>> If one really wants to support Rev effectively
>> there's a much more visible
>> way to do it: consider adding a page at your
>> site offering Rev info, tools,
>> or even just a description of how your clients
>> benefit from your using Rev.
>> Your About box only goes as far as you can
>> throw it, but Google is
>> everywhere....
> 
> the link to this page usually uses the attractive
> RunRev logo. is this authorized bu RunRev?

I'm not sure which URL you're referring to, but I would imagine that if you
want to include the logo on a page that presents Revolution in a
professional and positive light and links back to them they'd probably thank
you for it.

-- 
 Richard Gaskin 
 Fourth World Media Corporation
 ___________________________________________________________
 Ambassador at FourthWorld.com       http://www.FourthWorld.com


From gregory.lypny at videotron.ca  Fri Feb  6 15:53:21 2004
From: gregory.lypny at videotron.ca (Gregory Lypny)
Date: Fri, 06 Feb 2004 15:53:21 -0500
Subject: Cell Formatting in Fields
Message-ID: <7F601C4B-58E6-11D8-96F5-00039386E4BE@videotron.ca>

Hello Everyone,

	I took my first stab at RR's cell formatting feature under the Table 
item of the Object Inspector.  I couldn't get a dollar currency format. 
  I got two decimal places, but when I added the dollar sign as a 
prefix, the decimal places disappeared.  I guess that's because RR 
would no longer recognize the strings as numbers.  I then decided to 
forget the dollar sign and stick with the decimal places, but whenever 
new data is added to the field by means of a script, the formatting is 
lost.  What am I doing wrong?

	Greg


From James.Cass at sealedair.com  Fri Feb  6 15:48:16 2004
From: James.Cass at sealedair.com (James.Cass at sealedair.com)
Date: Fri, 6 Feb 2004 15:48:16 -0500
Subject: Revolution Linux Users
In-Reply-To: <141EFEF8-58E3-11D8-A9F8-003065F00EF2@mac.com>
Message-ID: <OF7E8A2652.4D83CA32-ON85256E32.00721069-85256E32.0072EF31@sealedair.com>

Glen -

I'd like to develop Rev apps for Yellow Dog Linux (PPC), but it looks like 
there's just not enough people interested to make it happen.

-James  :-(





Bojsza <gbojsza at mac.com>
Sent by: use-revolution-bounces at lists.runrev.com
02/06/04 03:28 PM
Please respond to How to use Revolution
 
        To:     use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
        cc: 
        Subject:        Revolution Linux Users


I was wondering if there are many Revolution Linux developers around.

thanks,

Glen

_______________________________________________
use-revolution mailing list
use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution

From alex at mindlube.com  Fri Feb  6 16:06:45 2004
From: alex at mindlube.com (Alex Rice)
Date: Fri, 6 Feb 2004 14:06:45 -0700
Subject: How do you pass authentication on the command line?
In-Reply-To: <022201c3ecee$807b1f30$6601a8c0@LightningFlash>
References: <022201c3ecee$807b1f30$6601a8c0@LightningFlash>
Message-ID: <5EE30110-58E8-11D8-8BF5-000393C4760A@mindlube.com>


On Feb 6, 2004, at 1:19 PM, Ken Ray wrote:

>> chmod a+x some-script.mc
>> chmod +s some-script.mc
>>
>> Now some-script.mc should run as "ken", even if the web server is
>> running the script as the user "www".
>
> That worked really well, Alex...

Glad it worked! Apache suExec would be a better solution though.

Be warned that suid scripts are convenient, but can be dangerous on a 
multiuser system. If you don't trust everyone who has shell accounts on 
your machine, beware! It you trust them, or there aren't any then it 
should be fine. See

<http://www.pi.infn.it/html/cgisecdef.html#auto_7.5>
<http://www.w3.org/Security/Faq/wwwsf4.html#CGI-Q20>

There is utility called CGIWrap which is just a tiny suid C program to 
launch your shell script- which avoids various security problems with 
suid scripts.

>  I was able to do this via Terminal and
> everything works fine now. Now I noticed that this was using bash and
> not tcsh; Panther automatically used bash in Terminal, but Jaguar was
> using tcsh and I had to run bash separately before I could apply your
> changes above.

I think Jaguar did not ship with bash installed. Can't remember for 
sure. In Panther bash is the default shell.

I guess tcsh must put some limits on suid bit setting, probably 
relating to the security issues I mentioned.

>  So two questions:
>
>   1) If I were to want to run the script above from Rev, how would I
> concatenate multiple commands in a single shell()?

Use semicolon to separate commands

chmod a+x some-script.mc ; chmod +s some-script.mc

Or if you want to run the 2nd script only if the 1st succeeds use an 
AND operator &&:

chmod a+x some-script.mc && chmod +s some-script.mc

>   2) If the OS is currently running tcsh, how would I add invoking bash
> before the script lines above using shell()?

set the shellCommand to "/bin/bash" -- or wherever

On Panther, /bin/sh is the same as /bin/bash
Try put shell("env") to see what shell is running, and other 
environment variables.

If you didn't want to change the shellCommand, you could do it like on 
the command line like
/bin/bash -c "commands here"

But using the shellCommand seems easier.

--
Alex Rice | Mindlube Software | http://mindlube.com


From dsc at swcp.com  Fri Feb  6 16:17:24 2004
From: dsc at swcp.com (Dar Scott)
Date: Fri, 6 Feb 2004 14:17:24 -0700
Subject: Image rotation confusion
In-Reply-To: <BC490EA6.28DA%jmac@consensustech.com>
Message-ID: <DB7D7ED2-58E9-11D8-AE57-000A9567A3E6@swcp.com>


On Friday, February 6, 2004, at 10:28 AM, Jim MacConnell wrote:

>  So.. Bottomline. I know set angle only works on the displayed image 
> and I
> know lockLocation keeps things the same size..... . Fine but how do I 
> get
> around the resizing that is going on and actually rotate my 
> ?ThumbSize? so
> it shows correctly in the field?

Some off the wall ideas:

1.  Change the size on rotation

or

2.  When you make the thumbnail, set the imageData to the imageData.  
(And maybe alphaData, too.)  Maybe this will create a new image that is 
the shrunk version of the original, so you don't lock the size.

Dar Scott


From dsc at swcp.com  Fri Feb  6 16:20:42 2004
From: dsc at swcp.com (Dar Scott)
Date: Fri, 6 Feb 2004 14:20:42 -0700
Subject: Labels and labeled Fields
In-Reply-To: <p060102eebc48fd6e5429@[10.0.1.3]>
Message-ID: <51D2F066-58EA-11D8-AE57-000A9567A3E6@swcp.com>


On Friday, February 6, 2004, at 01:14 AM, Jeanne A. E. DeVoto wrote:

>> I find that setting up label fields and (more so) data fields with 
>> associated label fields to be very tedious.  Ideas?  Perhaps I am 
>> doing all this the hard way.
>
> Somewhere in Bugzilla, there's a feature request to turn on the label 
> property for fields. (Right now it exists and can be set, but it 
> doesn't do anything.)

The simplest way to do that would be for the label and the text to 
share the same text properties.  That would be OK for many casual uses. 
  Those that need separate properties for labels might put them right on 
the text or use another method.

Dar Scott


From erikhans08 at yahoo.com  Fri Feb  6 16:30:46 2004
From: erikhans08 at yahoo.com (erik hansen)
Date: Fri, 6 Feb 2004 13:30:46 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Andy's comments and positioning...
In-Reply-To: <p060102edbc48fd5f50a9@[10.0.1.3]>
Message-ID: <20040206213046.77554.qmail@web61109.mail.yahoo.com>


--- "Jeanne A. E. DeVoto" 

> "start at the top". 
> Position yourself as a professional tool, then
> bring out a version 
> for hobbyists, and the latter product gets the
> perceptual benefit of 
> association with a pro-level product. 

look at Final Cut Pro.
the less expensive version is seen as
all you really need and high quality.

=====
erik at erikhansen.org    http://www.erikhansen.org

__________________________________
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From erikhans08 at yahoo.com  Fri Feb  6 16:33:38 2004
From: erikhans08 at yahoo.com (erik hansen)
Date: Fri, 6 Feb 2004 13:33:38 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Let Rev's Light Shine...or Watch It Go Out
In-Reply-To: <BC493DD2.3CD02%ambassador@fourthworld.com>
Message-ID: <20040206213338.25927.qmail@web61103.mail.yahoo.com>


--- Richard Gaskin <ambassador at fourthworld.com>
wrote:

> I would imagine that if you
> want to include the logo on a page that
> presents Revolution in a
> professional and positive light and links back
> to them they'd probably thank
> you for it.

right, but you never know.
i'll ask Heather.

=====
erik at erikhansen.org    http://www.erikhansen.org

__________________________________
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From erikhans08 at yahoo.com  Fri Feb  6 16:51:43 2004
From: erikhans08 at yahoo.com (erik hansen)
Date: Fri, 6 Feb 2004 13:51:43 -0800 (PST)
Subject: a short list of basic fonts?
In-Reply-To: <51D2F066-58EA-11D8-AE57-000A9567A3E6@swcp.com>
Message-ID: <20040206215143.71537.qmail@web61106.mail.yahoo.com>


is therte a short list of basic fonts?
so the standalone user can chose
without being overwhammed.

=====
erik at erikhansen.org    http://www.erikhansen.org

__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Finance: Get your refund fast by filing online.
http://taxes.yahoo.com/filing.html

From mwieder at ahsoftware.net  Fri Feb  6 16:59:41 2004
From: mwieder at ahsoftware.net (Mark Wieder)
Date: Fri, 6 Feb 2004 13:59:41 -0800
Subject: How do you pass authentication on the command line?
In-Reply-To: <5EE30110-58E8-11D8-8BF5-000393C4760A@mindlube.com>
References: <022201c3ecee$807b1f30$6601a8c0@LightningFlash>
 <5EE30110-58E8-11D8-8BF5-000393C4760A@mindlube.com>
Message-ID: <2714278180.20040206135941@ahsoftware.net>

Alex-

Friday, February 6, 2004, 1:06:45 PM, you wrote:

AR> I think Jaguar did not ship with bash installed. Can't remember for
AR> sure. In Panther bash is the default shell.

Jaguar ships with bash, but tcsh is the default shell. You can either
run bash yourself from a command line or change the shell preferences
to default to bash.

-- 
-Mark Wieder
 mwieder at ahsoftware.net


From dsc at swcp.com  Fri Feb  6 17:05:24 2004
From: dsc at swcp.com (Dar Scott)
Date: Fri, 6 Feb 2004 15:05:24 -0700
Subject: Port Question
In-Reply-To: <BC4866AE.9A93%scott@tactilemedia.com>
Message-ID: <90352981-58F0-11D8-AE57-000A9567A3E6@swcp.com>


On Thursday, February 5, 2004, at 10:31 PM, Scott Rossi wrote:

> All the routers I've owned allow you to assign one system on the 
> network a
> DMZ (demilitarized zone) address which I believe allows pretty much any
> traffic in and out.  Maybe this is what has to be set up by the game
> players.

Other routers have ways to set up something similar (fixed NAT with 
open rules).

This has the advantage in that one computer behind each firewall can 
act as a game communications concentrator.

I find the idea of peer-to-peer communications very interesting.  I 
think the firewall is one of the potential problems.

I had suggested the idea of a server or servers.  If you want to 
preserve the notion of peer-to-peer, maybe the server is for 
facilitating communications only.  And for setting up games among those 
looking for players.  Once a game is created then the game server might 
then only facilitate game memo distribution and throttling 
denial-of-service.

The simplest way is to have all game instances go through the server in 
communication, but you might find some performance shortcuts to be used 
later.

One of the problems with going to port 80 is that some firewalls will 
force this to go through a proxy server and force the protocol to be 
http only.  Many firewalls are set up to allow tcp going to other ports 
but only if originated from the LAN, that is, from inside.

The method least likely to cause trouble with firewalls might be to 
make bonafide http connections from inside to outside.  If that has 
performance problems then eventually the game might try some other link 
to the server or try to make a direct connection and if those fail, 
drop down to http to a server.

I designed Revolution based communications system last year in which a 
server and many clients sent little messages to each other, but this 
peer-to-peer communications was facilitated by a star-shaped shell 
created by clients making tcp connections to the server, even through 
firewalls.  So, even though communication was peer-to-peer at some 
level, the connection was client-server.

Dar Scott



From scott at tactilemedia.com  Fri Feb  6 17:16:39 2004
From: scott at tactilemedia.com (Scott Rossi)
Date: Fri, 06 Feb 2004 14:16:39 -0800
Subject: Port Question
In-Reply-To: <90352981-58F0-11D8-AE57-000A9567A3E6@swcp.com>
Message-ID: <BC495247.9B12%scott@tactilemedia.com>

On 2/6/04 2:05 PM, "Dar Scott" <dsc at swcp.com> wrote:

>> All the routers I've owned allow you to assign one system on the
>> network a
>> DMZ (demilitarized zone) address which I believe allows pretty much any
>> traffic in and out.  Maybe this is what has to be set up by the game
>> players.
> 
> I had suggested the idea of a server or servers.  If you want to
> preserve the notion of peer-to-peer, maybe the server is for
> facilitating communications only.  And for setting up games among those
> looking for players.  Once a game is created then the game server might
> then only facilitate game memo distribution and throttling
> denial-of-service.

What's to prevent one of the Rev apps acting as a server?  What would the
"server app" need to do to appear on the net as a server?


> The method least likely to cause trouble with firewalls might be to
> make bonafide http connections from inside to outside.

So could the Rev apps be set up to use the post command to post data to each
other?  Or does the data need to be "written down" somewhere first before
being accessible by clients on the net?

Thanks & Regards,

Scott Rossi
Creative Director
Tactile Media, Development & Design
-----
E: scott at tactilemedia.com
W: http://www.tactilemedia.com


From gizmotron at earthlink.net  Fri Feb  6 17:41:46 2004
From: gizmotron at earthlink.net (Mark Brownell)
Date: Fri, 6 Feb 2004 14:41:46 -0800
Subject: Windows Application Icon
Message-ID: <A514EF58-58F5-11D8-8ED1-000A95859272@earthlink.net>

Hi,

I searched the entire archive and followed all the advice. While trying 
to build a standalone including every windows created 32 X 32, 16 
color, 766, gray scale or colored icon the builder says that I need to 
use a 25064 sized file, 16 color.

Just to see if this is even possible could someone send me any icon 
that I could attempt to build a standalone with just to prove it is 
possible. I've spent all day on this with no luck.

Thanks for any help,

Mark


From kkaufman at snet.net  Fri Feb  6 17:58:04 2004
From: kkaufman at snet.net (Kurt Kaufman)
Date: Fri, 6 Feb 2004 17:58:04 -0500
Subject: [ANN] POP library released
Message-ID: <EC247B24-58F7-11D8-A64E-0003937052EC@snet.net>

Thank you, Sarah!
Now, between Sarah's POP library and Sean's SMTP libraries, we have the 
essentials of a Rev email client!
-KK


From dsc at swcp.com  Fri Feb  6 18:10:43 2004
From: dsc at swcp.com (Dar Scott)
Date: Fri, 6 Feb 2004 16:10:43 -0700
Subject: Port Question
In-Reply-To: <BC495247.9B12%scott@tactilemedia.com>
Message-ID: <B0279BB0-58F9-11D8-AE57-000A9567A3E6@swcp.com>


On Friday, February 6, 2004, at 03:16 PM, Scott Rossi wrote:

> What's to prevent one of the Rev apps acting as a server?  What would 
> the
> "server app" need to do to appear on the net as a server?

Yes one can.  The best choice is one that has a permanent public IP.  
It does need a public IP.

The reason one might not be is the potential load on the server.  Also, 
a server might not need to be upgraded as fast as games.


>
>
>> The method least likely to cause trouble with firewalls might be to
>> make bonafide http connections from inside to outside.
>
> So could the Rev apps be set up to use the post command to post data 
> to each
> other?  Or does the data need to be "written down" somewhere first 
> before
> being accessible by clients on the net?

I think POST would work.

I don't know how to make an http server push information.  Some http 
expert might have an idea.  Otherwise a client might need to poll.

This is why I suggested that http might be the lowest common connection 
to the server.  A tcp connection more tuned to your game might be tried 
first and, if that does not work, then the http.  Even in those cases 
in which the tcp to "the tm game port" is blocked, it will be an easy 
thing to ask an admin for.  I'd set up a particular web page that folks 
can give admins to explain what port is needed to be opened.

The server might need to be a little bit smart, but this can be done at 
a simple level.

There is some sort of SOAP that comes with Revolution, but it might be 
easier to just roll your own.  For the simple cases for your game, the 
server shouldn't be that bad.

Dar Scott






From dsc at swcp.com  Fri Feb  6 18:20:35 2004
From: dsc at swcp.com (Dar Scott)
Date: Fri, 6 Feb 2004 16:20:35 -0700
Subject: a short list of basic fonts?
In-Reply-To: <20040206215143.71537.qmail@web61106.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <1168D1B4-58FB-11D8-AE57-000A9567A3E6@swcp.com>


On Friday, February 6, 2004, at 02:51 PM, erik hansen wrote:

> is therte a short list of basic fonts?
> so the standalone user can chose
> without being overwhammed.

Perhaps the fontLanguage can be used to shorten the list.  If that is 
not short enough, take your favorites from the resulting list.  If that 
is less than the number you want, add some more from the top.

(You are clearly the list poet, Erik.  Do you do this on purpose or is 
this something natural that just comes out?)

Dar Scott


From dsc at swcp.com  Fri Feb  6 18:31:05 2004
From: dsc at swcp.com (Dar Scott)
Date: Fri, 6 Feb 2004 16:31:05 -0700
Subject: a short list of basic fonts?
In-Reply-To: <1168D1B4-58FB-11D8-AE57-000A9567A3E6@swcp.com>
Message-ID: <888B3340-58FC-11D8-AE57-000A9567A3E6@swcp.com>


On Friday, February 6, 2004, at 04:20 PM, Dar Scott wrote:

> Perhaps the fontLanguage can be used to shorten the list.  If that is 
> not short enough, take your favorites from the resulting list.  If 
> that is less than the number you want, add some more from the top.

Ooh-ooh!  Make a function that scores each font based on language, 
whether it is in your favorite list, and maybe other things such as the 
number of words in the name.  Sort the fonts from fontNames() by that.  
Take the top n.  Sort as you want for your menu.

Dar Scott


From scott at tactilemedia.com  Fri Feb  6 18:38:18 2004
From: scott at tactilemedia.com (Scott Rossi)
Date: Fri, 06 Feb 2004 15:38:18 -0800
Subject: Port Question
In-Reply-To: <B0279BB0-58F9-11D8-AE57-000A9567A3E6@swcp.com>
Message-ID: <BC49656A.9B20%scott@tactilemedia.com>

On 2/6/04 3:10 PM, "Dar Scott" <dsc at swcp.com> wrote:

>> What's to prevent one of the Rev apps acting as a server?  What would
>> the
>> "server app" need to do to appear on the net as a server?
> 
> The reason one might not be is the potential load on the server.  Also,
> a server might not need to be upgraded as fast as games.

There's no load.  The game consists of two people sending simple text
strings back and forth.

So, moving beyond the theoretical, assume sockets over port 80 is good
enough.  I'm still trying to understand how to address the messages from one
IP address to another when both players are behind firewalls.

Player 1               Player 2
Pub 209.123.40.50      Pub 265.321.50.90
Prv 192.198.0.5        Prv 192.168.0.19

Do I even need to worry about the private addresses?  Should the game
clients simply target the public IP address of the opposing player? Do I
need to instruct players that their routers should direct all port 80
messages to their "game" system or will the router automatically broadcast
port 80 messages to all machines on the local network?

Thanks & Regards,

Scott Rossi
Creative Director
Tactile Media, Development & Design
-----
E: scott at tactilemedia.com
W: http://www.tactilemedia.com


From dsc at swcp.com  Fri Feb  6 18:44:18 2004
From: dsc at swcp.com (Dar Scott)
Date: Fri, 6 Feb 2004 16:44:18 -0700
Subject: Where goes stacks, included stacks and externals?
In-Reply-To: <FLEGJBMJADGKMCHIMFOHAEOEDPAA.monte@sweattechnologies.com>
Message-ID: <61556302-58FE-11D8-AE57-000A9567A3E6@swcp.com>


On Thursday, February 5, 2004, at 05:31 PM, Monte Goulding wrote:

>> You have not complained about externals going into
>> myapp.app/Contents/PlugIns, at least for the app stack.  Are you
>> thinking these should go into MacOS, too?
>>
>
> The description of the PlugIns directory is for dynamic loading 
> bundles. I
> don't think externals fit into this category. I guess if you liked 
> them to
> stacks that you dynamically loaded then they could be...

My understanding is that PlugIns is for dynamically loaded bundles that 
require a special environment to be used in.  I think that fits an 
external, but I recognize that an external is a strange beast and hard 
to cage.

Some of my externals get bundle info, but they might not need to be in 
some particular place to get that.  I have to check, but I think in all 
cases I'm referring to a loaded bundle.

Where would you suggest externals go?  For the app stack and for 
supporting stacks.  Does the DB get involved in this?

Anybody else will to share where they put externals?

Dar Scott


From bvg at mac.com  Fri Feb  6 18:48:21 2004
From: bvg at mac.com (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Bj=F6rnke_von_Gierke?=)
Date: Sat, 7 Feb 2004 00:48:21 +0100
Subject: FileInfo
In-Reply-To: <4023FCE7.1050609@aol.com>
Message-ID: <F25B722B-58FE-11D8-B6E2-003065AD94A4@mac.com>

You could also try this:
lineoffset(tFile & ",",tFiles)
as the names are urlencoded, they show "%2C" instead of comma, so you 
know that you get the whole match.

On Freitag, Feb 6, 2004, at 21:45 Europe/Zurich, Zac Elston wrote:

> found a bug in the fileinfo function that was posted here a while back.
>
> the previous version was
>
>
> function FileInfo pPath
>    local tFile, tSaveDir, tFiles, tFileInfo
>    set the itemdel to "/"
>    put urlEncode(last item of pPath) into tFile
>    delete last item of pPath
>    put the directory into tSaveDir
>    set the directory to pPath
>    put the detailed files into tFiles
>    set the directory to tSaveDir
>    get lineoffset(tFile, tFiles)
>    if it > 0 then
>      return line it of tFiles
>    end if
> end FileInfo
>
> on
> get lineoffset(tFile, tFiles)
> a match will occur for files that are named with the same begining.
>
> so looking for the details of file.txt
> would match on the first occurance of file.txt , including file.txt.v1
>
> in my case, i'm scrapping webservers logs that are rotated nightly.
>
> so looking for access_log would match on access_log.$date
>
> while it's rare that this would occur for most others, the function 
> only
> matches on a substring not the entire filename
>
> so I just did  an item search.  anyone got a beter method?
>
> function FileInfo pPath
> --set the wholeMatches to true
> --that didn't help
>    local tFile, tSaveDir, tFiles, tFileInfo
>    set the itemdel to "/"
>    put urlEncode(last item of pPath) into tFile
>    delete last item of pPath
>    put the directory into tSaveDir
>    set the directory to pPath
>    put the detailed files into tFiles
>    set the directory to tSaveDir
>    set the itemdel to ","
>          repeat with x = 1 to the number of lines in tFiles
>     if item 1 of line x of tFiles  = tFile
>         then
>             return line x of tFiles
>         end if
>     end repeat
> end FileInfo
>
>
> -zac
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>


From johnrule at rcsprogramming.com  Fri Feb  6 18:50:29 2004
From: johnrule at rcsprogramming.com (John Rule)
Date: Fri, 6 Feb 2004 15:50:29 -0800
Subject: Revolution Linux Users 
References: <20040206210706.577599302EE@mail.runrev.com>
Message-ID: <001801c3ed0c$010d5fb0$6e01000a@rcsserver>

Count me in....

I really wish the folks at RunRev would take Linux a little more seriously.
There are several important things that do not work on Linux that I
need...but I am glad for what does work!
;-)

John Rule
RCS Programming


>
> I was wondering if there are many Revolution Linux developers around.
>


From ambassador at fourthworld.com  Fri Feb  6 18:52:23 2004
From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin)
Date: Fri, 06 Feb 2004 15:52:23 -0800
Subject: Revolution Linux Users 
In-Reply-To: <001801c3ed0c$010d5fb0$6e01000a@rcsserver>
Message-ID: <BC4968B7.3CD2C%ambassador@fourthworld.com>

John Rule wrote:

> need...but I am glad for what does work!

Have you reported what doesn't on Bugzilla?

Linux is of growing importance for all of us in the long run, so the sooner
we see a powerful Rev presence there the better.

-- 
 Richard Gaskin 
 Fourth World Media Corporation
 ___________________________________________________________
 Ambassador at FourthWorld.com       http://www.FourthWorld.com


From bvg at mac.com  Fri Feb  6 18:54:11 2004
From: bvg at mac.com (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Bj=F6rnke_von_Gierke?=)
Date: Sat, 7 Feb 2004 00:54:11 +0100
Subject: Port Question
In-Reply-To: <BC49656A.9B20%scott@tactilemedia.com>
Message-ID: <C27F9AF8-58FF-11D8-B6E2-003065AD94A4@mac.com>


On Samstag, Feb 7, 2004, at 00:38 Europe/Zurich, Scott Rossi wrote:

> ...
> I'm still trying to understand how to address the messages from one
> IP address to another when both players are behind firewalls.
>
> Player 1               Player 2
> Pub 209.123.40.50      Pub 265.321.50.90
> Prv 192.198.0.5        Prv 192.168.0.19
>
> Do I even need to worry about the private addresses?

No, you can't use the internal address for anything.

> Should the game clients simply target the public IP address of the 
> opposing player?

Yes, you need to forward the port you are using in the firewall/router. 
Unfortunately this is often not possible (eg. university or large 
company).

> Do I need to instruct players that their routers should direct all 
> port 80 messages to their "game" system or will the router 
> automatically broadcast port 80 messages to all machines on the local 
> network?

I do not think that automatic broadcast is an existing feature.

You could of course make a public server to which both your clients 
then open up a connection, thus circumventing the firewall/router 
problem.


From alex at mindlube.com  Fri Feb  6 18:55:15 2004
From: alex at mindlube.com (Alex Rice)
Date: Fri, 6 Feb 2004 16:55:15 -0700
Subject: Compilers?
In-Reply-To: <50308953-5844-11D8-A7A2-000A9567A3E6@swcp.com>
References: <50308953-5844-11D8-A7A2-000A9567A3E6@swcp.com>
Message-ID: <E8B74EBE-58FF-11D8-AD18-000393C4760A@mindlube.com>


On Feb 5, 2004, at 6:32 PM, Dar Scott wrote:

> Maybe Compiler should also be read as "development system".
>
> Summary so far:
>
> Compiler & Host        Targets

I haven't used them but: IBM and Intel have compilers optimized for 
their chips.
IBM has compilers for Win32, Linux and MacOS X. Probably big $$ though. 
Only worth it if you are using SIMD/Altivec or something like this.

--
Alex Rice | Mindlube Software | http://mindlube.com


From dsc at swcp.com  Fri Feb  6 18:57:04 2004
From: dsc at swcp.com (Dar Scott)
Date: Fri, 6 Feb 2004 16:57:04 -0700
Subject: Port Question
In-Reply-To: <BC49656A.9B20%scott@tactilemedia.com>
Message-ID: <29AACE6A-5900-11D8-AE57-000A9567A3E6@swcp.com>


On Friday, February 6, 2004, at 04:38 PM, Scott Rossi wrote:

> Do I even need to worry about the private addresses?

Nope.

> Should the game
> clients simply target the public IP address of the opposing player?

Nope.
> Do I
> need to instruct players that their routers should direct all port 80
> messages to their "game" system or will the router automatically 
> broadcast
> port 80 messages to all machines on the local network?

Nope.

Each player will point the game to a server.  The server might manage 
one ongoing game instance or manage games.  The player's game will id 
itself when it connects, maybe it can log in.  The id would be 
something unique to the player or game instance.  Perhaps it can be set 
up in the usual "provide a user name and password".  Once set up, the 
game preferences remembers.  It uses this each time it connects.

How do I send a message to game instance x?  By the name of x through 
the server.

So now all these IP address problems go away.

Dar


From dsc at swcp.com  Fri Feb  6 19:30:07 2004
From: dsc at swcp.com (Dar Scott)
Date: Fri, 6 Feb 2004 17:30:07 -0700
Subject: Port Question
In-Reply-To: <29AACE6A-5900-11D8-AE57-000A9567A3E6@swcp.com>
Message-ID: <C7DCDF66-5904-11D8-AE57-000A9567A3E6@swcp.com>


On Friday, February 6, 2004, at 04:57 PM, Dar Scott wrote:

> Nope.
>
> Each player will point the game to a server.

It might look like Bjornke von Gierke and I are giving contradictory 
answers, but I think we are referring to different solutions.

What I'm talking about seems to be evolving to a web chat for the 
server.  Depending on your needs you may need to include a recipient 
list with posts or all messages might go to all others in the chat.

Maybe there are some established web chat servers you can use for this.

Dar Scott


From dsc at swcp.com  Fri Feb  6 20:03:50 2004
From: dsc at swcp.com (Dar Scott)
Date: Fri, 6 Feb 2004 18:03:50 -0700
Subject: a short list of basic fonts?
In-Reply-To: <1168D1B4-58FB-11D8-AE57-000A9567A3E6@swcp.com>
Message-ID: <7D6F3421-5909-11D8-AE57-000A9567A3E6@swcp.com>


On Friday, February 6, 2004, at 04:20 PM, Dar Scott wrote:

>> is therte a short list of basic fonts?
>> so the standalone user can chose
>> without being overwhammed.

> (You are clearly the list poet, Erik.  Do you do this on purpose or is 
> this something natural that just comes out?)

Problem statement in limerick:

There once was a standalone user,
who needed a basic font chooser:
He was quite overwhammed,
as the font list was slammed;
Making him a standalone loser.

Solution requirement in Haiku (in the season of delivered product):

Standalone user,
when choosing a basic font,
is not overwhammed.

Dar Scott









From marty at vertex.ucls.uchicago.edu  Fri Feb  6 21:03:56 2004
From: marty at vertex.ucls.uchicago.edu (Marty Billingsley)
Date: Fri, 6 Feb 2004 20:03:56 -0600 (CST)
Subject: Andy's comments and positioning...
In-Reply-To: <20040206210706.03BEC9302EC@mail.runrev.com>
References: <20040206210706.03BEC9302EC@mail.runrev.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.4.58.0402061950080.6220@vertex.ucls.uchicago.edu>

erik hansen <erikhans08 at yahoo.com> wrote:
> --- Kevin Miller <kevin at runrev.com> wrote:
>
> > Essentially what we are going to be doing more
> > and more over the next few
> > versions is to differentiate Express from
> > Revolution.  So we have two
> > product lines: "Revolution" which contains
> > Studio and Enterprise aimed at
> > professional developers; and Express which is
> > aimed at the entry-level.  We
> > have a number of ideas about how to best manage
> > this differentiation in
> > terms of feature sets, pricing, promotion and
> > support.  We'll be introducing
> > this over time - still preserving options for
> > the existing user base, but
> > more clearly differentiating where new users
> > join the Revolution.
>
> for school labs, a version that is affordable
> but allows students into the development
> environment would be a great way to
> promote programming skills.

What is the difference between Studio, Enterprise,
and Express?  What is the definition of the "development
environment" that Erik refers to?  As a teacher using RunRev
in the classroom with middle school and high school students
I might be able to give you an idea what students (and
teachers) need.

I shy away from environments that are too easy, where
too much is automated.  That's why I stuck with HyperCard
for several years when many other teachers turned to
HyperStudio: I was able to teach fundamental programming
concepts with HC, which are buried too deep behind a simple
user interface in HyperStudio.

That said, the RR user interface isn't as friendly toward
students as it could be, but we're coping. :-)

I hope that a powerful RunRev will be affordable for the
classroom.

   - marty

--
Marty Billingsley (marty at ucls.uchicago.edu)
The University of Chicago Laboratory Schools

    "We are our choices...."
                   - Sartre

From kray at sonsothunder.com  Fri Feb  6 21:13:35 2004
From: kray at sonsothunder.com (Ken Ray)
Date: Fri, 6 Feb 2004 20:13:35 -0600
Subject: Odd behavior on XP
In-Reply-To: <1EF0B5DC-57C1-11D8-ACEB-003065683ECC@inspiredlogic.com>
Message-ID: <025d01c3ed20$0200a940$6601a8c0@LightningFlash>

Here's a way around it:

http://www.sonsothunder.com/devres/revolution/revolutioin.htm?_disk005

HTH,

Ken Ray
Sons of Thunder Software
Email: kray at sonsothunder.com
Web Site: http://www.sonsothunder.com/ 

> -----Original Message-----
> From: use-revolution-bounces at lists.runrev.com 
> [mailto:use-revolution-bounces at lists.runrev.com] On Behalf Of 
> Geoff Canyon
> Sent: Thursday, February 05, 2004 3:53 AM
> To: Use-Revolution
> Subject: Odd behavior on XP
> 
> 
> I'm searching for the inserted cd's drive letter on an XP machine by 
> looking for a file on the cd using each of the drive letters in the 
> volumes. On other PCs this works fine; on the XP machine it brings up 
> an insert media warning/dialog for each removable drive that doesn't 
> have something in it. Is there another way around this? Are others 
> using XP seeing this?
> 
> regards,
> 
> Geoff Canyon
> gcanyon at inspiredlogic.com
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com 
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-> revolution
> 



From ambassador at fourthworld.com  Fri Feb  6 21:26:29 2004
From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin)
Date: Fri, 06 Feb 2004 18:26:29 -0800
Subject: Andy's comments and positioning...
In-Reply-To: <Pine.GSO.4.58.0402061950080.6220@vertex.ucls.uchicago.edu>
Message-ID: <BC498CD5.3CD3E%ambassador@fourthworld.com>

Marty Billingsley wrote:

> That said, the RR user interface isn't as friendly toward
> students as it could be, but we're coping. :-)

If you could make three changes to the Rev UI what would they be?

-- 
 Richard Gaskin 
 Fourth World Media Corporation
 ___________________________________________________________
 Ambassador at FourthWorld.com       http://www.FourthWorld.com


From harrison at all-auctions.com  Fri Feb  6 22:45:22 2004
From: harrison at all-auctions.com (Richard Harrison)
Date: Fri, 6 Feb 2004 22:45:22 -0500
Subject: Andy's comments and positioning...
In-Reply-To: <BC498CD5.3CD3E%ambassador@fourthworld.com>
References: <BC498CD5.3CD3E%ambassador@fourthworld.com>
Message-ID: <0ECB4981-5920-11D8-AC53-000393C10758@all-auctions.com>


On Feb 6, 2004, at 9:26 PM, Richard Gaskin wrote:

> Marty Billingsley wrote:
>
>> That said, the RR user interface isn't as friendly toward
>> students as it could be, but we're coping. :-)
>
> If you could make three changes to the Rev UI what would they be?
>
>

I actually liked the earlier versions of Rev better.  All the tools were
on the front page.  Now I have to dig in a few levels to get to where
I want to go.  The interface is now more complex, and has lost some of 
its
great simplicity.

Other than that I'm happy with Rev.

Just my 2 cents.

Rick Harrison


From 3mcgrath at adelphia.net  Fri Feb  6 23:02:25 2004
From: 3mcgrath at adelphia.net (Thomas McGrath III)
Date: Fri, 6 Feb 2004 23:02:25 -0500
Subject: Labels and labeled Fields
In-Reply-To: <51D2F066-58EA-11D8-AE57-000A9567A3E6@swcp.com>
References: <51D2F066-58EA-11D8-AE57-000A9567A3E6@swcp.com>
Message-ID: <7034F62B-5922-11D8-8533-000A95DA60FA@adelphia.net>

I have just uploaded a simple Field Label Creator to help create field 
labels to the user contributions page at runrev.
It is rather simple and is only a first attempt to make it easier. It 
only creates one grouped label and field. You can then copy paste it 
into a stack.

I can see it being cleaned up quite a bit and with a lot more text 
features. But hey, it might help someone.

Tom

On Feb 6, 2004, at 4:20 PM, Dar Scott wrote:

>
> On Friday, February 6, 2004, at 01:14 AM, Jeanne A. E. DeVoto wrote:
>
>>> I find that setting up label fields and (more so) data fields with 
>>> associated label fields to be very tedious.  Ideas?  Perhaps I am 
>>> doing all this the hard way.
>>
>> Somewhere in Bugzilla, there's a feature request to turn on the label 
>> property for fields. (Right now it exists and can be set, but it 
>> doesn't do anything.)
>
> The simplest way to do that would be for the label and the text to 
> share the same text properties.  That would be OK for many casual 
> uses.  Those that need separate properties for labels might put them 
> right on the text or use another method.
>
> Dar Scott
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>
>

Thomas J. McGrath III
SCS
1000 Killarney Dr.
Pittsburgh, PA 15234
412-885-8541


From chrism at lumin.us  Fri Feb  6 23:28:29 2004
From: chrism at lumin.us (Christopher Mitchell)
Date: Fri, 6 Feb 2004 22:28:29 -0600
Subject: a short list of basic fonts?
In-Reply-To: <7D6F3421-5909-11D8-AE57-000A9567A3E6@swcp.com>
References: <7D6F3421-5909-11D8-AE57-000A9567A3E6@swcp.com>
Message-ID: <146B248C-5926-11D8-9BA4-000393B64EDC@lumin.us>

poets, programmers
revolutionary souls
my this list is strange

Yours,
Chris

On Feb 6, 2004, at 7:03 PM, Dar Scott wrote:

>
> On Friday, February 6, 2004, at 04:20 PM, Dar Scott wrote:
>
>>> is therte a short list of basic fonts?
>>> so the standalone user can chose
>>> without being overwhammed.
>
>> (You are clearly the list poet, Erik.  Do you do this on purpose or 
>> is this something natural that just comes out?)
>
> Problem statement in limerick:
>
> There once was a standalone user,
> who needed a basic font chooser:
> He was quite overwhammed,
> as the font list was slammed;
> Making him a standalone loser.
>
> Solution requirement in Haiku (in the season of delivered product):
>
> Standalone user,
> when choosing a basic font,
> is not overwhammed.
>
> Dar Scott
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>


From revolution at knowledgeworks.plus.com  Sat Feb  7 00:04:09 2004
From: revolution at knowledgeworks.plus.com (revolution at knowledgeworks.plus.com)
Date: Sat, 7 Feb 2004 05:04:09 +0000
Subject: Revolution Linux Users
Message-ID: <OF33D684D8.0AF6C018-ON80256E33.0019D680-80256E33.001BD8D2@knowledgeworks.plus.com>

Hi Glen

I'm a Rev user who uses Linux.  And my next project is going to be 
directed primarily at Linux, and will hopefully have a very wide catchment 
area (the app will be integrated with my own Linux distribution).  In 
fact, I don't see that Win32 or OS X will play any significant part in my 
business. 

My timescale for the completion of this project is 12-18 months, and I am 
keeping an eye on other technologies.  I'm quite concerned that there seem 
to be outstanding issues with Rev on Linux (there was a post in the last 
couple of weeks that listed manifold problems).  I'm just waiting for a 
clear few days so that I can test the bugs I have found in Rev with 
Metacard, and then I can give the Runrev people the fullest information. 
I'm not sure that Linux has received/is receiving enough attention.  Some 
of these bugs have been documented in this list quite some time ago, but 
do not appear to have been resolved.

As you may know, Metacard is the forefather of Rev, and it was aimed 
primarily at the Unix arena.  This gives Rev a great opportunity with the 
rising tide of Linux.  I'm currently writing some integration tools for an 
open source database project.  Many of the hard-core users have been 
bemoaning this past week at the lack of cross-platform, simple, end-user 
tools, and are suggesting teams to write such tools in c++.  Instead, I 
decided to implement them in Rev - I think I will have the entire suite 
finished in a couple of days.

Bernard




Bojsza <gbojsza at mac.com>
Sent by: use-revolution-bounces at lists.runrev.com
06/02/2004 20:28
Please respond to How to use Revolution

 
        To:     use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
        cc: 
        Subject:        Revolution Linux Users


I was wondering if there are many Revolution Linux developers around.

thanks,

Glen

_______________________________________________
use-revolution mailing list
use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution



From revdan at danshafer.com  Sat Feb  7 00:05:31 2004
From: revdan at danshafer.com (Dan Shafer)
Date: Fri, 6 Feb 2004 21:05:31 -0800
Subject: go vs open?
Message-ID: <40AF9FE8-592B-11D8-85C0-0030656FB5D4@danshafer.com>

This one just popped up tonight and I'm a bit bewildered because I 
could swear this worked before. Of course, some of my coding is done on 
auto-pilot, so I could just be forgetting something.

I have a line in a script that looks like this:

open stack "PIClearingNew"

When it executes, the stack opens fine. But the error dialog pops up 
and tells me there's an error on that line.

If I change "open" to "go" it works fine and I get no error.

But from all I can tell, open and go should be precisely equivalent.

Anybody got any idea what's going on here? I feel like I stumbled into 
some alien world.


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Dan Shafer, Revolutionary
Author of  "Revolution: Software at the Speed of Thought"
http://www.revolutionpros.com for more info
Available at Runtime Revolution Store (http://www.runrev.com/RevPress)


From erikhans08 at yahoo.com  Sat Feb  7 00:05:56 2004
From: erikhans08 at yahoo.com (erik hansen)
Date: Fri, 6 Feb 2004 21:05:56 -0800 (PST)
Subject: my this list is strange
In-Reply-To: <146B248C-5926-11D8-9BA4-000393B64EDC@lumin.us>
Message-ID: <20040207050556.67749.qmail@web61108.mail.yahoo.com>


> > Dar Scott wrote:
> >
> >>> is there a short list of basic fonts?
> >>> so the standalone user can chose
> >>> without being overwhammed.
> >
> >> (You are clearly the list poet, Erik.  Do
> you do this on purpose or 
> >> is this something natural that just comes
> out?)
> >
> > Problem statement in limerick:
> >
> > There once was a standalone user,
> > who needed a basic font chooser:
> > He was quite overwhammed,
> > as the font list was slammed;
> > Making him a standalone loser.
> >
> > Solution requirement in Haiku (in the season
> of delivered product):
> >
> > Standalone user,
> > when choosing a basic font,
> > is not overwhammed.
> >
> > Dar Scott

--- Christopher Mitchell <chrism at lumin.us> wrote:

> poets, programmers
> revolutionary souls
> my this list is strange

uhh, yeaahhh.
remember the flurry about editing for emails for
clarity?
that includes lines that do not
wrapppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppp.



=====
erik at erikhansen.org    http://www.erikhansen.org

__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Finance: Get your refund fast by filing online.
http://taxes.yahoo.com/filing.html

From erikhans08 at yahoo.com  Sat Feb  7 00:10:14 2004
From: erikhans08 at yahoo.com (erik hansen)
Date: Fri, 6 Feb 2004 21:10:14 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Labels and labeled Fields
In-Reply-To: <a05100302bc46d43c0803@[66.52.165.197]>
Message-ID: <20040207051014.84701.qmail@web61102.mail.yahoo.com>


--- Rob Cozens <rcozens at pon.net> wrote:

> With appropriate sets of icons (the icon,
> the hilitedIcon, the 
> armedIcon, the disabledIcon, the visitedIcon)
> and handlers, title 
> buttons can respond to mouse events and
> otherwise interact with the 
> user in many more ways than a label field can.

why would you want to interact with a label?

=====
erik at erikhansen.org    http://www.erikhansen.org

__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Finance: Get your refund fast by filing online.
http://taxes.yahoo.com/filing.html

From chipp at chipp.com  Sat Feb  7 00:19:15 2004
From: chipp at chipp.com (Chipp Walters)
Date: Fri, 6 Feb 2004 23:19:15 -0600
Subject: [ANN] POP library released
In-Reply-To: <AF3E6023-5868-11D8-8E1C-0003937A97B8@genesearch.com.au>
Message-ID: <GGEOJBEEGFHLDOFIMMPIMEJDFPAA.chipp@chipp.com>

Hi Sarah,

GREAT NEWS...Thanks! This is great for all!

-Chipp


From gizmotron at earthlink.net  Sat Feb  7 00:21:56 2004
From: gizmotron at earthlink.net (Mark Brownell)
Date: Fri, 6 Feb 2004 21:21:56 -0800
Subject: Windows Application Icon
In-Reply-To: <A514EF58-58F5-11D8-8ED1-000A95859272@earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <8C51E672-592D-11D8-9EC9-000A95859272@earthlink.net>

On Friday, February 6, 2004, at 02:41  PM, Mark Brownell wrote:

> I searched the entire archive and followed all the advice. While 
> trying to build a standalone including every windows created 32 X 32, 
> 16 color, 766, gray scale or colored icon the builder says that I need 
> to use a 25064 sized file, 16 color.

Does anyone know why properly built icons, that work for some people, 
766 byte recommendations that is on Windows, don't work for me on 
Windows XP Pro. I was able to use the AOL icon that was 24 +kbts to 
work. Inside it was six different icons. When I use a single icon file 
766 bytes I get a message saying that I need a 25064 sized file, 16 
color.

Has anyone seen this message saying that a 25064 sized file, 16 color 
is required?

Does anyone know if Windows XP Pro has an icon solution that Rev will 
work with?

Is there a plain looking icon that I can use to package my software 
with for Windows?

I've done everything that the archives has recommended. I even tried 
redrawing the artwork in the AOL icons. That ended up getting rejected.

I can't believe that at the very end it all breaks down because of an 
icon.

Someone sent me an icon that works for them but it does not work for me 
in XP Pro. I wonder, was that icon a workable solution on a Windows XP 
Pro machine.

Thanks for any help,

Mark


From chrism at lumin.us  Sat Feb  7 00:26:51 2004
From: chrism at lumin.us (Christopher Mitchell)
Date: Fri, 6 Feb 2004 23:26:51 -0600
Subject: New to the Revolution, excited but confused about cross-platform UI
	insanity!  Rev poets, come to my aid, please.
Message-ID: <3BE3B65E-592E-11D8-9BA4-000393B64EDC@lumin.us>

Hey, folks,

I've just registered a Studio license this week and have been tooling 
around with this fabulous software, but I'm having some "concerns" when 
it comes to how very simple Win32 windows are being represented in 
contrast to the Mac windows.

Now, I'm aware of the 21 pixel issue if there is a menu in play (which 
I guess is always) but please take a look at these small shots:

http://www.luminus.com/runrev/

The filenames are self-explanatory.  I built the Windows standalone 
based on the Mac stack as you see it.  I did some adjusting and was 
messing around with property profiles to try to get a Mac and a Windows 
setup where there was enough space and proper alignment, but there 
seems to be more to it than just that.

Note where the glyph in the Windows shot is being cutoff.  If I turn a 
grid plugin on in the editor on the mac, it shows that I have a little 
over 30 (THIRTY) pixels space between the top of the glyph and the top 
edge of the stack window.  As you can see, it is about equidistant to 
the little control bundle at the bottom.  No matter how you slice it, 
taking into account the menu area at the top (which is still narrower, 
as I understand, than what is shown) the Windows stack has WAY too much 
space between the glyph and the controls.  Trying to get them to be in 
the right place required almost placing the glyph field right on top of 
the controls.

What's up with this?  I knew there were some problems, but this is 
enough to require having to go back and redo each element just so it 
doesn't show up in a funky place - time consuming and contra the write 
once run anywhere purpose of having a multi-environment builder.  Oddly 
enough it looks like the controls are in the right place, but this 
field is just out in space once it moves over to Windows.

Any hints/help on this?  I'm thinking of getting an Express license to 
clean up the UI on Windows but that just seems like  - well - something 
that I shouldn't have to do unless there's something hardcore going on 
- and this is just a single text field (and for the record is not a 
unicode font, so there's none of that issue coming up  - yet...)

Thanks all!

Yours,
Chris


From alex at mindlube.com  Sat Feb  7 00:30:05 2004
From: alex at mindlube.com (Alex Rice)
Date: Fri, 6 Feb 2004 22:30:05 -0700
Subject: Windows Application Icon
In-Reply-To: <8C51E672-592D-11D8-9EC9-000A95859272@earthlink.net>
References: <8C51E672-592D-11D8-9EC9-000A95859272@earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <AF6BB16B-592E-11D8-A863-000393C4760A@mindlube.com>


On Feb 6, 2004, at 10:21 PM, Mark Brownell wrote:
> Someone sent me an icon that works for them but it does not work for 
> me in XP Pro. I wonder, was that icon a workable solution on a Windows 
> XP Pro machine.

That icon I sent you works with Rev 2.1.2 on Win2000. The standalone's 
icon appears fine on Win XP, but I have not tried Distribution Builder 
itself on XP.

HTH
--
Alex Rice | Mindlube Software | http://mindlube.com


From erikhans08 at yahoo.com  Sat Feb  7 00:31:44 2004
From: erikhans08 at yahoo.com (erik hansen)
Date: Fri, 6 Feb 2004 21:31:44 -0800 (PST)
Subject: a short list of basic fonts?
In-Reply-To: <888B3340-58FC-11D8-AE57-000A9567A3E6@swcp.com>
Message-ID: <20040207053144.15824.qmail@web61104.mail.yahoo.com>

--- Dar Scott <dsc at swcp.com> wrote:

> the fontLanguage can be used 
> to shorten the list.
> take your favorites from the resulting list.
> Sort as you want for your menu.

my "menu" is a field where
(the textFont of line i)=(the text of line i)

my "favorites" include:
scientific notation, Zapf Dingbats & Magyar.
for an app, however, fonts should be
universally printer friendly. (users will
be choosing the fonts to print out songsheets.)


=====
erik at erikhansen.org    http://www.erikhansen.org

__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Finance: Get your refund fast by filing online.
http://taxes.yahoo.com/filing.html

From chipp at chipp.com  Sat Feb  7 00:34:46 2004
From: chipp at chipp.com (Chipp Walters)
Date: Fri, 6 Feb 2004 23:34:46 -0600
Subject: Windows Application Icon
In-Reply-To: <8C51E672-592D-11D8-9EC9-000A95859272@earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <GGEOJBEEGFHLDOFIMMPIKEJFFPAA.chipp@chipp.com>

Mark,

My last post didn't get through.
Try the tutorial:

Creating a custom icon for Windows

at 

http://www.altuit.com/webs/altuit2/RunRev/Tutorials.htm

best,
Chipp


From chipp at chipp.com  Sat Feb  7 00:34:45 2004
From: chipp at chipp.com (Chipp Walters)
Date: Fri, 6 Feb 2004 23:34:45 -0600
Subject: Revolution Linux Users
In-Reply-To: <OF33D684D8.0AF6C018-ON80256E33.0019D680-80256E33.001BD8D2@knowledgeworks.plus.com>
Message-ID: <GGEOJBEEGFHLDOFIMMPIIEJFFPAA.chipp@chipp.com>

Hi Bernard,

Great post! I (and I know quite a few other power RR users) are EXTREMELY
excited about the future prospects for RR and Linux. In fact, I can't think
of a better marketing opportunity for RR than as an answer to the very
expensive QT cross-platform C environment targeted at Linux developers.
Here's IMO why: (you probably know all this)

1) While there are a lot of programs for Linux, there certainly aren't the
breadth and depth of those found on PC. Especially considering GUI apps.
This is a perfect opportunity for developers. IOW, creating an app for Linux
won't have the competition it would have on Mac or PC.

2) IBM and others are putting in place the elements necessary (both in
technology and perception) for real contemplation of *switching* for
corporate America. In fact, I believe IBM has already stated it's goal of
converting their company to desktop Linux. Others in corporate America won't
be far behind. Both eWeek and InfoWorld this week had issues devoted to the
latest 2.6 kernel, and both are extremely favorable reviews....in fact
recommending it over MS for servers.

3) RR has it's roots (as you've stated) in Linux, and both Scott and Tuviah
have a great understanding of what *else* is needed in the engine.

Those of you who haven't yet seen my Lindows offer...please check out:
"A case for Lindows"
http://www.altuit.com/webs/altuit/Lindows/AnbspCasenbspfornbspLindows.htm

But, as you've noted, there are some IDE bugs which need fixing. I've seen
them, too, though I'm not a big Linux user yet:-( no time right now + I need
Photoshop on Linux-- GIMP won't do)

I would be interested in hearing your comparison of (the now OpenSourced) MC
IDE vs RR. Plus, please do post to bugzilla. I believe there is a new
bugzilla DB being created which should work even better than before.

best,

Chipp



From erikhans08 at yahoo.com  Sat Feb  7 00:37:32 2004
From: erikhans08 at yahoo.com (erik hansen)
Date: Fri, 6 Feb 2004 21:37:32 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Andy's comments and positioning...
In-Reply-To: <Pine.GSO.4.58.0402061950080.6220@vertex.ucls.uchicago.edu>
Message-ID: <20040207053732.48772.qmail@web61105.mail.yahoo.com>


--- Marty Billingsley
<marty at vertex.ucls.uchicago.edu> wrote:
> erik hansen <erikhans08 at yahoo.com> wrote:
> > --- Kevin Miller <kevin at runrev.com> wrote:
> >
> > > Essentially what we are going to be doing
> more
> > > and more over the next few
> > > versions is to differentiate Express from
> > > Revolution.  So we have two
> > > product lines: "Revolution" which contains
> > > Studio and Enterprise aimed at
> > > professional developers; and Express which
> is
> > > aimed at the entry-level.  We
> > > have a number of ideas about how to best
> manage
> > > this differentiation in
> > > terms of feature sets, pricing, promotion
> and
> > > support.  We'll be introducing
> > > this over time - still preserving options
> for
> > > the existing user base, but
> > > more clearly differentiating where new
> users
> > > join the Revolution.
> >
> > for school labs, a version that is affordable
> > but allows students into the development
> > environment would be a great way to
> > promote programming skills.
> 
> What is the difference between Studio,
> Enterprise,
> and Express?  What is the definition of the
> "development
> environment" that Erik refers to?  As a teacher
> using RunRev
> in the classroom with middle school and high
> school students
> I might be able to give you an idea what
> students (and
> teachers) need.
> 
> I shy away from environments that are too easy,
> where
> too much is automated.  That's why I stuck with
> HyperCard
> for several years when many other teachers
> turned to
> HyperStudio: I was able to teach fundamental
> programming
> concepts with HC, which are buried too deep
> behind a simple
> user interface in HyperStudio.
> 
> That said, the RR user interface isn't as
> friendly toward
> students as it could be, but we're coping. :-)
> 
> I hope that a powerful RunRev will be
> affordable for the
> classroom.
> 
>    - marty
> 
> --
> Marty Billingsley (marty at ucls.uchicago.edu)
> The University of Chicago Laboratory Schools

(all above text is certified pertinant)

marty,

any RunRev/hardware/software lore to relate
relating to students in labs?

thanks,

=====
erik at erikhansen.org    http://www.erikhansen.org

__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Finance: Get your refund fast by filing online.
http://taxes.yahoo.com/filing.html

From kray at sonsothunder.com  Sat Feb  7 00:35:24 2004
From: kray at sonsothunder.com (Ken Ray)
Date: Fri, 6 Feb 2004 23:35:24 -0600
Subject: New to the Revolution, excited but confused about
	cross-platform UIinsanity!  Rev poets, come to my aid, please.
In-Reply-To: <3BE3B65E-592E-11D8-9BA4-000393B64EDC@lumin.us>
Message-ID: <000d01c3ed3c$338c28b0$6601a8c0@LightningFlash>

Chris,

Welcome aboard! 

Which font is this using, and is this in an English OS (it looks like it
is, but I want to be sure). At the outset it looks like a font-related
issue... if you change the font to something "generic" like "Arial", do
you still have the same issue? And it doesn't look like you have a menu
bar in play, right?

Ken Ray
Sons of Thunder Software
Email: kray at sonsothunder.com
Web Site: http://www.sonsothunder.com/ 

> -----Original Message-----
> From: use-revolution-bounces at lists.runrev.com 
> [mailto:use-revolution-bounces at lists.runrev.com] On Behalf Of 
> Christopher Mitchell
> Sent: Friday, February 06, 2004 11:27 PM
> To: 'How to use Revolution'
> Subject: New to the Revolution, excited but confused about 
> cross-platform UIinsanity! Rev poets, come to my aid, please.
> 
> 
> Hey, folks,
> 
> I've just registered a Studio license this week and have been tooling 
> around with this fabulous software, but I'm having some 
> "concerns" when 
> it comes to how very simple Win32 windows are being represented in 
> contrast to the Mac windows.
> 
> Now, I'm aware of the 21 pixel issue if there is a menu in 
> play (which 
> I guess is always) but please take a look at these small shots:
> 
> http://www.luminus.com/runrev/
> 
> The filenames are self-explanatory.  I built the Windows standalone 
> based on the Mac stack as you see it.  I did some adjusting and was 
> messing around with property profiles to try to get a Mac and 
> a Windows 
> setup where there was enough space and proper alignment, but there 
> seems to be more to it than just that.
> 
> Note where the glyph in the Windows shot is being cutoff.  If 
> I turn a 
> grid plugin on in the editor on the mac, it shows that I have 
> a little 
> over 30 (THIRTY) pixels space between the top of the glyph 
> and the top 
> edge of the stack window.  As you can see, it is about equidistant to 
> the little control bundle at the bottom.  No matter how you slice it, 
> taking into account the menu area at the top (which is still 
> narrower, 
> as I understand, than what is shown) the Windows stack has 
> WAY too much 
> space between the glyph and the controls.  Trying to get them 
> to be in 
> the right place required almost placing the glyph field right 
> on top of 
> the controls.
> 
> What's up with this?  I knew there were some problems, but this is 
> enough to require having to go back and redo each element just so it 
> doesn't show up in a funky place - time consuming and contra 
> the write 
> once run anywhere purpose of having a multi-environment 
> builder.  Oddly 
> enough it looks like the controls are in the right place, but this 
> field is just out in space once it moves over to Windows.
> 
> Any hints/help on this?  I'm thinking of getting an Express 
> license to 
> clean up the UI on Windows but that just seems like  - well - 
> something 
> that I shouldn't have to do unless there's something hardcore 
> going on 
> - and this is just a single text field (and for the record is not a 
> unicode font, so there's none of that issue coming up  - yet...)
> 
> Thanks all!
> 
> Yours,
> Chris
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com 
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-> revolution
> 



From dsc at swcp.com  Sat Feb  7 00:41:31 2004
From: dsc at swcp.com (Dar Scott)
Date: Fri, 6 Feb 2004 22:41:31 -0700
Subject: Windows Application Icon
In-Reply-To: <8C51E672-592D-11D8-9EC9-000A95859272@earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <484ED4E0-5930-11D8-AE57-000A9567A3E6@swcp.com>


On Friday, February 6, 2004, at 10:21 PM, Mark Brownell wrote:

> I can't believe that at the very end it all breaks down because of an 
> icon.

A couple years ago Trevor wrote this:

> In the past I have used Microangelo (http://www.impactsoft.com/) to 
> change the
> icons for my windows executables.

Dar Scott


From gizmotron at earthlink.net  Sat Feb  7 00:43:49 2004
From: gizmotron at earthlink.net (Mark Brownell)
Date: Fri, 6 Feb 2004 21:43:49 -0800
Subject: Windows Application Icon
In-Reply-To: <GGEOJBEEGFHLDOFIMMPIKEJFFPAA.chipp@chipp.com>
Message-ID: <9A6FD4A6-5930-11D8-9EC9-000A95859272@earthlink.net>


On Friday, February 6, 2004, at 09:34  PM, Chipp Walters wrote:

> Mark,
>
> My last post didn't get through.
> Try the tutorial:
>
> Creating a custom icon for Windows
>
> at
>
> http://www.altuit.com/webs/altuit2/RunRev/Tutorials.htm
>
> best,
> Chipp


Thanks Chipp. It did get through and I spent an entire day trying it on 
XP Pro. See my next post...

Mark


From gizmotron at earthlink.net  Sat Feb  7 00:47:04 2004
From: gizmotron at earthlink.net (Mark Brownell)
Date: Fri, 6 Feb 2004 21:47:04 -0800
Subject: Windows Application Icon
In-Reply-To: <AF6BB16B-592E-11D8-A863-000393C4760A@mindlube.com>
Message-ID: <0F253061-5931-11D8-9EC9-000A95859272@earthlink.net>


On Friday, February 6, 2004, at 09:30  PM, Alex Rice wrote:

> That icon I sent you works with Rev 2.1.2 on Win2000. The standalone's 
> icon appears fine on Win XP, but I have not tried Distribution Builder 
> itself on XP.
>
> HTH

Thanks for letting me know. I'm not sure I have Rev 2.1.2. I might have 
Rev 2.1.1 for Windows. I'm looking on the internet about building the 
nine required files for XP Pro.

"You should have a total of nine image formats - three sizes per color 
depth in the next sequence:
?	
*	48 x 48 at 32-bit
*	32 x 32 at 32-bit
*	16 x 16 at 32-bit
*	48 x 48 at 8-bit
*	32 x 32 at 8-bit
*	16 x 16 at 8-bit
*	48 x 48 at 4-bit
*	32 x 32 at 4-bit
*	16 x 16 at 4-bit

Use Tools\Sort Image Formats\for Windows XP menu command to sort the 
icons in this sequence or arrange icons using drag-n-drop. This 
sequence is necessary for correct icons display on any system, not only 
Windows XP."

Perhaps Rev is looking to take the proper version from a larger file 
like this?

Mark


From chrism at lumin.us  Sat Feb  7 00:48:59 2004
From: chrism at lumin.us (Christopher Mitchell)
Date: Fri, 6 Feb 2004 23:48:59 -0600
Subject: New to the Revolution, excited but confused about
	cross-platform UIinsanity!  Rev poets, come to my aid, please.
In-Reply-To: <000d01c3ed3c$338c28b0$6601a8c0@LightningFlash>
References: <000d01c3ed3c$338c28b0$6601a8c0@LightningFlash>
Message-ID: <5391FF32-5931-11D8-9BA4-000393B64EDC@lumin.us>

Hey, Ken,

Thanks!  I've been looking at your site, actually, and the many others 
that are out there.  It is unbelievable how many resources people have 
made available, even more unbelievable that nobody I know has ever 
heard of RunRev.  Per the discussion in another thread, it's hard for 
me to get it through to my java/flash guru friend that RunRev is a good 
idea, but it seems like the world that knows about it is filled with 
real zealots.  (ha.  a Sons of Thunder joke)

Well, it could be a font issue.  I will give it a go with Arial.  This 
font is HebraicaII by Linguist Software, not something I could 
distribute with a stack anyway.  It is English OSX.3.2 that I'm 
running, and XP on the Win side.  I did not put a menu bar in, so in 
this case it is getting way cut off even without the bar-space.

Have a look at the files in here called winwarped and macwarped 
http://www.luminus.com/runrev/

That's the original Mac spacing I had to do to get the windows to look 
as it does in winwarped (which is not warped at all, and what I 
expected my original stack to export like).

I'll go give it a test with Arial though.  I notice that there have not 
been any posts in the archives for some time about Right to Left 
keyboarding and fonts, but this is the major need for which I will be 
carrying the standard.  I don't suppose you (or anyone reading this) 
knows offhand why when I switch to Hebrew-QWERTY the system 
automagically switches me to Lucida Grande, and I can't seem to change 
fonts in the right-left scripted mode...

RunRev needs to give a call to Mellel!  Especially with the education 
market in graduate/postgrad studies in Middle Eastern languages and 
literatures... (I'm currently assisting in editing my prof's 
dissertation for U. Ed, and one of the biggest issues has been dealing 
with Hebrew, Greek and English in one document.  May I take this time 
to express a moment of disdain for MS Word).  Mellel is one of the only 
apps I've seen so far that does it right - but even Mail.app works 
reasonably well.

Getting wordy, will go try Arial then look for a better Hebrew font... 
any suggestions from the gallery?


Yours,
Chris
On Feb 6, 2004, at 11:35 PM, Ken Ray wrote:

> Chris,
>
> Welcome aboard!
>
> Which font is this using, and is this in an English OS (it looks like 
> it
> is, but I want to be sure). At the outset it looks like a font-related
> issue... if you change the font to something "generic" like "Arial", do
> you still have the same issue? And it doesn't look like you have a menu
> bar in play, right?
>
> Ken Ray
> Sons of Thunder Software
> Email: kray at sonsothunder.com
> Web Site: http://www.sonsothunder.com/
>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: use-revolution-bounces at lists.runrev.com
>> [mailto:use-revolution-bounces at lists.runrev.com] On Behalf Of
>> Christopher Mitchell
>> Sent: Friday, February 06, 2004 11:27 PM
>> To: 'How to use Revolution'
>> Subject: New to the Revolution, excited but confused about
>> cross-platform UIinsanity! Rev poets, come to my aid, please.
>>
>>
>> Hey, folks,
>>
>> I've just registered a Studio license this week and have been tooling
>> around with this fabulous software, but I'm having some
>> "concerns" when
>> it comes to how very simple Win32 windows are being represented in
>> contrast to the Mac windows.
>>
>> Now, I'm aware of the 21 pixel issue if there is a menu in
>> play (which
>> I guess is always) but please take a look at these small shots:
>>
>> http://www.luminus.com/runrev/
>>
>> The filenames are self-explanatory.  I built the Windows standalone
>> based on the Mac stack as you see it.  I did some adjusting and was
>> messing around with property profiles to try to get a Mac and
>> a Windows
>> setup where there was enough space and proper alignment, but there
>> seems to be more to it than just that.
>>
>> Note where the glyph in the Windows shot is being cutoff.  If
>> I turn a
>> grid plugin on in the editor on the mac, it shows that I have
>> a little
>> over 30 (THIRTY) pixels space between the top of the glyph
>> and the top
>> edge of the stack window.  As you can see, it is about equidistant to
>> the little control bundle at the bottom.  No matter how you slice it,
>> taking into account the menu area at the top (which is still
>> narrower,
>> as I understand, than what is shown) the Windows stack has
>> WAY too much
>> space between the glyph and the controls.  Trying to get them
>> to be in
>> the right place required almost placing the glyph field right
>> on top of
>> the controls.
>>
>> What's up with this?  I knew there were some problems, but this is
>> enough to require having to go back and redo each element just so it
>> doesn't show up in a funky place - time consuming and contra
>> the write
>> once run anywhere purpose of having a multi-environment
>> builder.  Oddly
>> enough it looks like the controls are in the right place, but this
>> field is just out in space once it moves over to Windows.
>>
>> Any hints/help on this?  I'm thinking of getting an Express
>> license to
>> clean up the UI on Windows but that just seems like  - well -
>> something
>> that I shouldn't have to do unless there's something hardcore
>> going on
>> - and this is just a single text field (and for the record is not a
>> unicode font, so there's none of that issue coming up  - yet...)
>>
>> Thanks all!
>>
>> Yours,
>> Chris
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> use-revolution mailing list
>> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-> revolution
>>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>


From gizmotron at earthlink.net  Sat Feb  7 01:01:26 2004
From: gizmotron at earthlink.net (Mark Brownell)
Date: Fri, 6 Feb 2004 22:01:26 -0800
Subject: Windows Application Icon
In-Reply-To: <484ED4E0-5930-11D8-AE57-000A9567A3E6@swcp.com>
Message-ID: <107A92AE-5933-11D8-9EC9-000A95859272@earthlink.net>


On Friday, February 6, 2004, at 09:41  PM, Dar Scott wrote:

> A couple years ago Trevor wrote this:
>
>> In the past I have used Microangelo (http://www.impactsoft.com/) to 
>> change the
>> icons for my windows executables.
>
> Dar Scott

Thanks Dar, That has some interesting possibilities.

Mark


From chipp at chipp.com  Sat Feb  7 01:06:09 2004
From: chipp at chipp.com (Chipp Walters)
Date: Sat, 7 Feb 2004 00:06:09 -0600
Subject: Windows Application Icon
In-Reply-To: <0F253061-5931-11D8-9EC9-000A95859272@earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <GGEOJBEEGFHLDOFIMMPIKEJIFPAA.chipp@chipp.com>

Hi Mark,

Did you use the program I mentioned on my site called:
QTam Bitmap to Icon

(free trial at:)
http://shareit1.element5.com/programs.html?productid=134460&language=English

It generates only ONE icon. 32x32 at 4 bit. That's it. It's all RR can use.
No more, no less. I believe RR has announced the next version should do
better icons for XP.

You can only use this ONE icon when you build a standalone.

best,

Chipp



From chrism at lumin.us  Sat Feb  7 01:06:42 2004
From: chrism at lumin.us (Christopher Mitchell)
Date: Sat, 7 Feb 2004 00:06:42 -0600
Subject: New to the Revolution, excited but confused about
	cross-platform UIinsanity!  Rev poets, come to my aid, please.
In-Reply-To: <000d01c3ed3c$338c28b0$6601a8c0@LightningFlash>
References: <000d01c3ed3c$338c28b0$6601a8c0@LightningFlash>
Message-ID: <CCDC5F7A-5933-11D8-9BA4-000393B64EDC@lumin.us>

Here are the results of a test with Arial.  Notice, oddly, that 
changing the field font to Arial also had a corresponding change to the 
font used in the control group...

http://www.luminus.com/runrev/arialwin.jpg
http://www.luminus.com/runrev/arialmac.jpg

Not as bad as with the Hebraica font but still the space under the 
letter "a" on the windows build is far too wide.  I'm going to have to 
suggest this ought be looked at.

Any ideas?

Yours,
Chris
On Feb 6, 2004, at 11:35 PM, Ken Ray wrote:

> Chris,
>
> Welcome aboard!
>
> Which font is this using, and is this in an English OS (it looks like 
> it
> is, but I want to be sure). At the outset it looks like a font-related
> issue... if you change the font to something "generic" like "Arial", do
> you still have the same issue? And it doesn't look like you have a menu
> bar in play, right?
>
> Ken Ray
> Sons of Thunder Software
> Email: kray at sonsothunder.com
> Web Site: http://www.sonsothunder.com/
>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: use-revolution-bounces at lists.runrev.com
>> [mailto:use-revolution-bounces at lists.runrev.com] On Behalf Of
>> Christopher Mitchell
>> Sent: Friday, February 06, 2004 11:27 PM
>> To: 'How to use Revolution'
>> Subject: New to the Revolution, excited but confused about
>> cross-platform UIinsanity! Rev poets, come to my aid, please.
>>
>>
>> Hey, folks,
>>
>> I've just registered a Studio license this week and have been tooling
>> around with this fabulous software, but I'm having some
>> "concerns" when
>> it comes to how very simple Win32 windows are being represented in
>> contrast to the Mac windows.
>>
>> Now, I'm aware of the 21 pixel issue if there is a menu in
>> play (which
>> I guess is always) but please take a look at these small shots:
>>
>> http://www.luminus.com/runrev/
>>
>> The filenames are self-explanatory.  I built the Windows standalone
>> based on the Mac stack as you see it.  I did some adjusting and was
>> messing around with property profiles to try to get a Mac and
>> a Windows
>> setup where there was enough space and proper alignment, but there
>> seems to be more to it than just that.
>>
>> Note where the glyph in the Windows shot is being cutoff.  If
>> I turn a
>> grid plugin on in the editor on the mac, it shows that I have
>> a little
>> over 30 (THIRTY) pixels space between the top of the glyph
>> and the top
>> edge of the stack window.  As you can see, it is about equidistant to
>> the little control bundle at the bottom.  No matter how you slice it,
>> taking into account the menu area at the top (which is still
>> narrower,
>> as I understand, than what is shown) the Windows stack has
>> WAY too much
>> space between the glyph and the controls.  Trying to get them
>> to be in
>> the right place required almost placing the glyph field right
>> on top of
>> the controls.
>>
>> What's up with this?  I knew there were some problems, but this is
>> enough to require having to go back and redo each element just so it
>> doesn't show up in a funky place - time consuming and contra
>> the write
>> once run anywhere purpose of having a multi-environment
>> builder.  Oddly
>> enough it looks like the controls are in the right place, but this
>> field is just out in space once it moves over to Windows.
>>
>> Any hints/help on this?  I'm thinking of getting an Express
>> license to
>> clean up the UI on Windows but that just seems like  - well -
>> something
>> that I shouldn't have to do unless there's something hardcore
>> going on
>> - and this is just a single text field (and for the record is not a
>> unicode font, so there's none of that issue coming up  - yet...)
>>
>> Thanks all!
>>
>> Yours,
>> Chris
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> use-revolution mailing list
>> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-> revolution
>>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>


From dsc at swcp.com  Sat Feb  7 01:24:37 2004
From: dsc at swcp.com (Dar Scott)
Date: Fri, 6 Feb 2004 23:24:37 -0700
Subject: New to the Revolution, excited but confused about
	cross-platform UIinsanity!  Rev poets, come to my aid, please.
In-Reply-To: <CCDC5F7A-5933-11D8-9BA4-000393B64EDC@lumin.us>
Message-ID: <4DB15A1C-5936-11D8-AE57-000A9567A3E6@swcp.com>


On Friday, February 6, 2004, at 11:06 PM, Christopher Mitchell wrote:

> Here are the results of a test with Arial.

Here are my results in raw form (mentioned here last year, I think):

> Here is some raw data of the formattedHeight and formattedWidth of the 
> word "Washington" in different fonts and sizes on two platforms.
>
> It looks like the mapping may be different depending on whether you 
> want to match area or line spacing.  Or even line length.
>
> OS X
> textSize textHeight  Arial  Helvetica  Courier  Courier New
>    8       10        10X40    9X40      9X50       10X50
>    9       12        12X48   12X48     12X50       12X50
>   10       13        13X55   13X54     13X60       13X60
>   11       14        14X57   13X57     13X70       14X70
>   12       16        16X65   14X65     14X70       16X70
>   13       17        17X68   16X68     16X80       17X80
>   14       18        18X75   17X75     17X80       18X80
>   15       20        20X77   18X77     18X90       20X90
>   16       21        21X85   20X85     20X100      21X100
>   17       22        22X88   21X88     21X100      22X100
>   18       24        24X95   22X95     22X110      24X110
>   19       25        25X103  24X103    24X110      25X110
>   20       26        26X105  25X105    25X120      26X120
>
> Windows XP
> textSize textHeight  Arial  Helvetica  Courier  Courier New
>    8       10        9X39	  ----     13X80        8X50
>    9       12       10X40    -----     13X80        8X50
>   10       13       10X49    -----     13X80       10X50
>   11       14       12X55    -----     13X80       10X60
>   12       16       14X66    -----     13X80       14X70
>   13       17       14X66    -----     13X80       14X70
>   14       18       16X69    -----     16X90       14X80
>   15       20       17X78    -----     16X90       16X80
>   16       21       18X87    -----     16X90       17X100
>   17       22       18X87    -----     20X120      18X100
>   18       24       21X95    -----     20X120      20X110
>   19       25       24X102   ------    20X120      21X130
>   20       26       24X111   ------    20X120      22X130

So for Arial...
OSX      Windows XP
8          9
10         11   (except for height)
12         14   (except for width)

I'm told that is all in differences in the fonts on different 
platforms.  Maybe so.  There might be some idiosyncrasies in the 
engine, too.

If you limit your mix of fonts and sizes, there might be some tricks 
you can do to make these the same in more cases.

Dar Scott


From jacque at hyperactivesw.com  Sat Feb  7 01:25:09 2004
From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay)
Date: Sat, 07 Feb 2004 00:25:09 -0600
Subject: New to the Revolution, excited but confused aboutcross-platform
 UIinsanity!  Rev poets, come to my aid, please.
In-Reply-To: <CCDC5F7A-5933-11D8-9BA4-000393B64EDC@lumin.us>
References: <000d01c3ed3c$338c28b0$6601a8c0@LightningFlash>
	<CCDC5F7A-5933-11D8-9BA4-000393B64EDC@lumin.us>
Message-ID: <402484C5.2070605@hyperactivesw.com>

On 2/7/04 12:06 AM, Christopher Mitchell wrote:

> Here are the results of a test with Arial.  Notice, oddly, that changing 
> the field font to Arial also had a corresponding change to the font used 
> in the control group...

Try setting the fixedlineheight property of the field to true and the 
setting a fairly high lineHeight value. (The lineHeight property 
corresponds to what printers call "leading".) If the fixedlineheight is 
false, then characters do not always use the same leading across platforms.

-- 
Jacqueline Landman Gay         |     jacque at hyperactivesw.com
HyperActive Software           |     http://www.hyperactivesw.com

From chipp at chipp.com  Sat Feb  7 01:32:26 2004
From: chipp at chipp.com (Chipp Walters)
Date: Sat, 7 Feb 2004 00:32:26 -0600
Subject: New to the Revolution, excited but confused aboutcross-platform
	UIinsanity!  Rev poets, come to my aid, please.
In-Reply-To: <CCDC5F7A-5933-11D8-9BA4-000393B64EDC@lumin.us>
Message-ID: <GGEOJBEEGFHLDOFIMMPIAEJKFPAA.chipp@chipp.com>

Just an idea...try playing around with the fixedlineheight property...


From revolution at jaedworks.com  Sat Feb  7 01:45:48 2004
From: revolution at jaedworks.com (Jeanne A. E. DeVoto)
Date: Fri, 6 Feb 2004 22:45:48 -0800
Subject: go vs open?
In-Reply-To: <40AF9FE8-592B-11D8-85C0-0030656FB5D4@danshafer.com>
References: <40AF9FE8-592B-11D8-85C0-0030656FB5D4@danshafer.com>
Message-ID: <p0601027cbc4a399529b8@[10.0.1.3]>

At 9:05 PM -0800 2/6/04, Dan Shafer wrote:
>open stack "PIClearingNew"
>
>When it executes, the stack opens fine. But the error dialog pops up 
>and tells me there's an error on that line.
>
>If I change "open" to "go" it works fine and I get no error.


They should be synonymous, but maybe there's some glitch.

Is the stack open at the time, or closed? If open, frontmost or not?

Do you get the same error if you simply enter the command in the 
message box, without the surrounding script?

What happens if you retype the word "open" into the script, 
eliminating any possibility that some weird invisible character has 
sneaked in?
-- 
jeanne a. e. devoto ~ jaed at jaedworks.com
http://www.jaedworks.com

From chrism at lumin.us  Sat Feb  7 01:46:30 2004
From: chrism at lumin.us (Christopher Mitchell)
Date: Sat, 7 Feb 2004 00:46:30 -0600
Subject: fixedLineHeight = a great help
In-Reply-To: <402484C5.2070605@hyperactivesw.com>
References: <000d01c3ed3c$338c28b0$6601a8c0@LightningFlash>
	<CCDC5F7A-5933-11D8-9BA4-000393B64EDC@lumin.us>
	<402484C5.2070605@hyperactivesw.com>
Message-ID: <5C5EA6E8-5939-11D8-9BA4-000393B64EDC@lumin.us>

Thanks, ladies and gentlemen, for your tips here.

Dar, your list is scary... It's as if someone decided consciously to 
make sure that fonts didn't quite line up the same on the competing 
platforms.  Excellent resource though, and shows why weird things 
happen when you start using cross-platform fonts of that size (72pt)

fixedlineheight and adjustment of the lineHeight value has made a huge 
difference.  Thanks for pointing this out, even the Hebrew font looks 
reasonably well placed now!

exciting things ahead ... thanks to all of you!

Yours,
Chris
On Feb 7, 2004, at 12:25 AM, J. Landman Gay wrote:

> On 2/7/04 12:06 AM, Christopher Mitchell wrote:
>
>> Here are the results of a test with Arial.  Notice, oddly, that 
>> changing the field font to Arial also had a corresponding change to 
>> the font used in the control group...
>
> Try setting the fixedlineheight property of the field to true and the 
> setting a fairly high lineHeight value. (The lineHeight property 
> corresponds to what printers call "leading".) If the fixedlineheight 
> is false, then characters do not always use the same leading across 
> platforms.
>
> -- 
> Jacqueline Landman Gay         |     jacque at hyperactivesw.com
> HyperActive Software           |     http://www.hyperactivesw.com
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>


From chrism at lumin.us  Sat Feb  7 01:51:37 2004
From: chrism at lumin.us (Christopher Mitchell)
Date: Sat, 7 Feb 2004 00:51:37 -0600
Subject: command-2 (previous) and command-3 (next), jumping by 2
Message-ID: <139B6EC8-593A-11D8-9BA4-000393B64EDC@lumin.us>

Has anyone else experienced the "previous" and "next" card keyboard 
shortcuts going by 2? so it jumps from card 1 to 3 to 5... and back to 
3 to 5.  Everytime I leave the property inspector and click on the 
stack to unselect objects, then click command 3, it jumps 2 cards ahead 
- until I've cycled through the stack a few times then it goes back to 
one.

Hope this hasn't been in the archives, but searching anything with part 
of the string being "card" turns up a lot of false hits.

Yours,
Chris


From valetia at mac.com  Sat Feb  7 02:53:50 2004
From: valetia at mac.com (valetia at mac.com)
Date: Sat, 07 Feb 2004 17:53:50 +1000
Subject: command-2 (previous) and command-3 (next), jumping by 2
In-Reply-To: <139B6EC8-593A-11D8-9BA4-000393B64EDC@lumin.us>
Message-ID: <BC4AD6AE.41DFB%valetia@mac.com>

Yup, happening over here too. :)

Valetia


Christopher Mitchell <chrism at lumin.us> wrote:

> Has anyone else experienced the "previous" and "next" card keyboard
> shortcuts going by 2? so it jumps from card 1 to 3 to 5... and back to
> 3 to 5.  Everytime I leave the property inspector and click on the
> stack to unselect objects, then click command 3, it jumps 2 cards ahead
> - until I've cycled through the stack a few times then it goes back to
> one.
> 
> Hope this hasn't been in the archives, but searching anything with part
> of the string being "card" turns up a lot of false hits.
> 
> Yours,
> Chris
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution


From frank at backtalk.com  Sat Feb  7 03:42:22 2004
From: frank at backtalk.com (Frank Leahy)
Date: Sat, 7 Feb 2004 08:42:22 +0000
Subject: Rotating an image
In-Reply-To: <20040206192756.16A5B9302CB@mail.runrev.com>
Message-ID: <8BD6E622-5949-11D8-A8C6-000A9580FCCE@backtalk.com>

Jim,

Here's my RotateImage function, hope it helps.

This assumes you've got an image on your card called "Current Image".

In my version of this function, I first scale the image down to a 
thumbnail size so the user can see what image I'm working on, then I 
call lock screen, then I do the rotation code here.  After the rotation 
is complete I create a new thumbnail of the rotated image and then call 
unlock screen.  This way the user only sees the two thumbnails, never 
the intermediate larger images.

on RotateImage theFileName, direction
   put "binfile:" & theFileName into urlCmd
   put URL urlCmd into image "Current Image"

   put the formattedHeight of image "Current Image" into fh
   put the formattedWidth of image "Current Image" into fw

   if direction = "left" then
     rotate image "Current Image" by 90
   else if direction = "right" then
     rotate image "Current Image" by -90
   end if
   choose browse tool

   put the rect of image "Current Image" into imageRect
   set the itemDelimiter to ","
   if fw > fh then
     put fw - fh into delta
     put delta div 2 into theLeftMargin
     put delta - theleftMargin into theRightMargin
     add theLeftMargin to item 1 of imageRect
     subtract theRightMargin from item 3 of imageRect
   else if fw < fh then
     put fh - fw into delta
     put delta div 2 into theTopMargin
     put delta - theTopMargin into theBottomMargin
     add theTopMargin to item 2 of imageRect
     subtract theBottomMargin from item 4 of imageRect
   end if
   crop image "Current Image" to imageRect

   -- Put whatever jpeg quality level you want here,
   -- but it probably makes sense to use a qualityLevel of 100 for 
rotation
   put 100 into qualityLevel
   set the jpegQuality to qualityLevel
   set the paintCompression to "jpeg"
   export image "Current Image" to URL ("binfile:" & theFileName) as JPEG
   put the result into theResult -- you could check this if you wanted to
   set the fileName of image "Current Image" to empty
end RotateImage

-- Frank Leahy


From opus.species at wanadoo.fr  Sat Feb  7 03:52:30 2004
From: opus.species at wanadoo.fr (opus.species at wanadoo.fr)
Date: Sat, 07 Feb 2004 09:52:30 +0100
Subject: The Bitstream VERA font, the first truely crossplatform solution
In-Reply-To: <20040206233146.794DA930311@mail.runrev.com>
References: <20040206233146.794DA930311@mail.runrev.com>
Message-ID: <opr2zr9smf7hj683@smtp.wanadoo.fr>

> is there a short list of basic fonts?
> so the standalone user can chose
> without being overwhammed.

Cross platform fonts was a nightmare because there where no free fonts 
freely avalaible for Windows, Macintosh and Linux.

But thanks to Bitstream, things are changing.

Bitstream decided to deliver freely with a gnu licence the vera font ; it 
is a full set (serif sans and mono, roman italic and bold) of trueptype 
fonts. These font are of a very high level of readability, even at 9 or 10 
points. They equal or surpasse the best "enhanced screen" font that where 
already on the market.

These font are freely avalaible for commercial use.

It could an opportunity for Revolution to embedd these fonts in all 
versions of Revolution.

Claude Lemmel

From psahores at easynet.fr  Sat Feb  7 06:59:52 2004
From: psahores at easynet.fr (Pierre Sahores)
Date: Sat, 7 Feb 2004 12:59:52 +0100
Subject: [ANN] POP library released
In-Reply-To: <GGEOJBEEGFHLDOFIMMPIMEJDFPAA.chipp@chipp.com>
References: <GGEOJBEEGFHLDOFIMMPIMEJDFPAA.chipp@chipp.com>
Message-ID: <22F4B404-5965-11D8-90C3-000A95665344@easynet.fr>

Many Thanks, Sarah, for sharing this so great Pop library with all of 
us !!!

Stored for future use :-)

Best Regards from Paris, Pierre Sahores

100, rue de Paris
F - 77140 Nemours

psahores at easynet.fr

GSM:   +33 6 03 95 77 70
Pro:   +33 1 41 60 52 68
Dom:   +33 1 64 45 05 33
Fax:   +33 1 64 45 05 33

Inspection acad?mique de Seine-Saint-Denis
Applications et SGBD ACID SQL (WEB et PGI)
Penser et produire "delta de productivit?"


From m.mackenzie at sasktel.net  Sat Feb  7 08:12:37 2004
From: m.mackenzie at sasktel.net (Mark MacKenzie)
Date: Sat, 07 Feb 2004 07:12:37 -0600
Subject: The Bitstream VERA font, the first truely crossplatform solution
In-Reply-To: <opr2zr9smf7hj683@smtp.wanadoo.fr>
References: <20040206233146.794DA930311@mail.runrev.com>
 <opr2zr9smf7hj683@smtp.wanadoo.fr>
Message-ID: <4024E445.5040100@sasktel.net>

Just went to Bitstream and searched the whole site and then just within 
the fonts for "Vera" and came up with zero results for the font but 
plenty of hits within news releases.  However, the news releas stuff 
seemed to be useless.

I remain very interested in seeing this font but at the moment can't 
find it.  I will try a www search and see what happens.  Perhaps 
Bitstream as a commercial entity doesn't want too much publicity for a 
free font on its web site.

Mark MacKenzie

opus.species at wanadoo.fr wrote:

>
> Cross platform fonts was a nightmare because there where no free fonts 
> freely avalaible for Windows, Macintosh and Linux.
>
> But thanks to Bitstream, things are changing.
>
> Bitstream decided to deliver freely with a gnu licence the vera font ; 
> it is a full set (serif sans and mono, roman italic and bold) of 
> trueptype fonts. These font are of a very high level of readability, 
> even at 9 or 10 points. They equal or surpasse the best "enhanced 
> screen" font that where already on the market.
>
> These font are freely avalaible for commercial use.
>
> It could an opportunity for Revolution to embedd these fonts in all 
> versions of Revolution.
>
> Claude Lemmel



From m.mackenzie at sasktel.net  Sat Feb  7 08:19:42 2004
From: m.mackenzie at sasktel.net (Mark MacKenzie)
Date: Sat, 07 Feb 2004 07:19:42 -0600
Subject: The Bitstream VERA font, the first truely crossplatform solution
In-Reply-To: <4024E445.5040100@sasktel.net>
References: <20040206233146.794DA930311@mail.runrev.com>
 <opr2zr9smf7hj683@smtp.wanadoo.fr> <4024E445.5040100@sasktel.net>
Message-ID: <4024E5EE.7060503@sasktel.net>

Okay, after chasing a web search back to Bitstream the following URL 
will show you screen samples of the Vera font.

http://bitstream.com/categories/products/fonts/vera/

Mark

Mark MacKenzie wrote:

> Just went to Bitstream and searched the whole site and then just 
> within the fonts for "Vera" and came up with zero results for the font 
> but plenty of hits within news releases.  However, the news releas 
> stuff seemed to be useless.
>
> I remain very interested in seeing this font but at the moment can't 
> find it.  I will try a www search and see what happens.  Perhaps 
> Bitstream as a commercial entity doesn't want too much publicity for a 
> free font on its web site.
>
> Mark MacKenzie
>


From ian at azurevision.co.uk  Sat Feb  7 09:08:03 2004
From: ian at azurevision.co.uk (Ian Wood)
Date: Sat, 7 Feb 2004 14:08:03 +0000
Subject: The Bitstream VERA font, the first truely crossplatform solution
In-Reply-To: <4024E5EE.7060503@sasktel.net>
References: <20040206233146.794DA930311@mail.runrev.com>
	<opr2zr9smf7hj683@smtp.wanadoo.fr> <4024E445.5040100@sasktel.net>
	<4024E5EE.7060503@sasktel.net>
Message-ID: <0B30C340-5977-11D8-AB96-0003935A2896@azurevision.co.uk>

It looks very readable, but note the phrase 'will be released'.

Ian

On 7 Feb 2004, at 13:19, Mark MacKenzie wrote:

> Okay, after chasing a web search back to Bitstream the following URL 
> will show you screen samples of the Vera font.
>
> http://bitstream.com/categories/products/fonts/vera/
>
> Mark
>
> Mark MacKenzie wrote:
>
>> Just went to Bitstream and searched the whole site and then just 
>> within the fonts for "Vera" and came up with zero results for the 
>> font but plenty of hits within news releases.  However, the news 
>> releas stuff seemed to be useless.
>>
>> I remain very interested in seeing this font but at the moment can't 
>> find it.  I will try a www search and see what happens.  Perhaps 
>> Bitstream as a commercial entity doesn't want too much publicity for 
>> a free font on its web site.
>>
>> Mark MacKenzie
>>
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>


From ttasovac at princeton.edu  Sat Feb  7 09:24:24 2004
From: ttasovac at princeton.edu (Toma Tasovac)
Date: Sat, 7 Feb 2004 15:24:24 +0100
Subject: The Bitstream VERA font, the first truely crossplatform solution
In-Reply-To: <0B30C340-5977-11D8-AB96-0003935A2896@azurevision.co.uk>
References: <20040206233146.794DA930311@mail.runrev.com>
	<opr2zr9smf7hj683@smtp.wanadoo.fr> <4024E445.5040100@sasktel.net>
	<4024E5EE.7060503@sasktel.net>
	<0B30C340-5977-11D8-AB96-0003935A2896@azurevision.co.uk>
Message-ID: <541D517A-5979-11D8-A36D-000A95C45C8C@princeton.edu>

the fonts HAVE been released, you were just looking at the wrong place

http://www.gnome.org/fonts/

On Feb 7, 2004, at 3:08 PM, Ian Wood wrote:

> It looks very readable, but note the phrase 'will be released'.


From klaus at major-k.de  Sat Feb  7 09:47:46 2004
From: klaus at major-k.de (Klaus Major)
Date: Sat, 7 Feb 2004 15:47:46 +0100
Subject: The Bitstream VERA font, the first truely crossplatform solution
In-Reply-To: <541D517A-5979-11D8-A36D-000A95C45C8C@princeton.edu>
References: <20040206233146.794DA930311@mail.runrev.com>
	<opr2zr9smf7hj683@smtp.wanadoo.fr> <4024E445.5040100@sasktel.net>
	<4024E5EE.7060503@sasktel.net>
	<0B30C340-5977-11D8-AB96-0003935A2896@azurevision.co.uk>
	<541D517A-5979-11D8-A36D-000A95C45C8C@princeton.edu>
Message-ID: <97C37900-597C-11D8-8AD3-000A27B49A96@major-k.de>

Hi all,

> the fonts HAVE been released, you were just looking at the wrong place
>
> http://www.gnome.org/fonts/

just installed them here on OS X and they look great, even in 9 pt on a
1600*1200 screen :-)

Will have to test on windows tomorrow...
I MUST see before i believe ;-)

>> It looks very readable,

It definitvely IS readable, even in small sizes :-)


Regards

Klaus Major
klaus at major-k.de
www.major-k.de


From gizmotron at earthlink.net  Sat Feb  7 10:40:30 2004
From: gizmotron at earthlink.net (Mark Brownell)
Date: Sat, 7 Feb 2004 07:40:30 -0800
Subject: Windows Application Icon
In-Reply-To: <GGEOJBEEGFHLDOFIMMPIKEJIFPAA.chipp@chipp.com>
Message-ID: <F5C4CACE-5983-11D8-8EB1-000A95859272@earthlink.net>


On Friday, February 6, 2004, at 10:06  PM, Chipp Walters wrote:

> Hi Mark,
>
> Did you use the program I mentioned on my site called:
> QTam Bitmap to Icon
>
> (free trial at:)
> http://shareit1.element5.com/ 
> programs.html?productid=134460&language=English
>
> It generates only ONE icon. 32x32 at 4 bit. That's it. It's all RR can  
> use.
> No more, no less. I believe RR has announced the next version should do
> better icons for XP.
>
> You can only use this ONE icon when you build a standalone.
>
> best,
>
> Chipp

Have you had any success while developing on XP Pro with it? Yes I used  
this program all morning,  afternoon, and night.  No joy... I did get a  
25+ kbt icon to work.

mb


From jacque at hyperactivesw.com  Sat Feb  7 10:43:16 2004
From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay)
Date: Sat, 07 Feb 2004 09:43:16 -0600
Subject: fixedLineHeight = a great help
In-Reply-To: <5C5EA6E8-5939-11D8-9BA4-000393B64EDC@lumin.us>
References: <000d01c3ed3c$338c28b0$6601a8c0@LightningFlash>
	<CCDC5F7A-5933-11D8-9BA4-000393B64EDC@lumin.us>
	<402484C5.2070605@hyperactivesw.com>
	<5C5EA6E8-5939-11D8-9BA4-000393B64EDC@lumin.us>
Message-ID: <40250794.4030401@hyperactivesw.com>

On 2/7/04 12:46 AM, Christopher Mitchell wrote:

> fixedlineheight and adjustment of the lineHeight value has made a huge 
> difference.  Thanks for pointing this out, even the Hebrew font looks 
> reasonably well placed now!

Glad it worked out for you. For the record: when I am not so tired and 
my brain is more functional, I'd have referred to the "textheight" 
rather than the "lineheight". There is no property called "lineheight". 
The regulars probably knew what I meant, but since you are new to Rev, I 
thought I'd better correct myself.

-- 
Jacqueline Landman Gay         |     jacque at hyperactivesw.com
HyperActive Software           |     http://www.hyperactivesw.com

From rcozens at pon.net  Sat Feb  7 10:17:31 2004
From: rcozens at pon.net (Rob Cozens)
Date: Sat, 7 Feb 2004 08:17:31 -0700
Subject: Manipulating Old Dates
Message-ID: <a05100303bc4aaa256d05@[66.52.165.170]>

Several months ago I had a conversation with Ken Ray about the 
shortcomings of Transcript's date manipulation commands when applied 
to dates more than half a century old (or in the future).  I was 
reminded of the issue when Douglas McKay wrote to tell me Serendipity 
Library's validDate function did not work for the date he entered.

So I created a stack, a button, and a handler:

	on mouseUp
		ask "Enter a date:"
		convert it to dateItems
		put "The converted date is"&&it
	end mouseUp

I took a day, Feb. 8, and ran the handler several times, changing the 
year by a decade each time.

  	"2/8/44" yields "1944,8,2...
	"2/8/34" yields "2034,8,2...
	"2/8/1934" yields "2034,8,2...

The first two results are predictable, as the centuryCutoff property 
defaults to 35.  The third result suggests to me that all date 
conversion uses seconds as an intermediate conversion format (and 
probably that is why one can add to the seconds, days, and months and 
get a correct date WITHIN THE RANGE OF THE CENTURY CUTOFF).

So just how does one work around this shortcoming, especially when 
dealing with current & past dates concurrently?  For example, I have 
a stack that charts biorhythms from any date based on the subject's 
dob.  Normally, biorhythms are charted from a current date a few 
months into the future; so one would expect the starting date to work 
with a centuryCutoff of 35 (until 2036).  But what of birth dates? 
Again, biorhythms are normally charted for living persons, not 
historical figures; but even so there are people alive today that 
could have been born in the 19th, 20th, or 21st centuries.

How does one deal with these issues given Transcript's date handling commands?

And isn't the centuryCutoff property setting developers up for "baby 
Y2K" conversion issues as the default centuryCutoff approaches?

When Ken & I spoke, we discussed the need for Julian date handlers in 
Transcript.  I have Julian date routines in my old FORTRAN & PL/1 
libraries.  Is it time they were incorporated into Serendipity 
Library?

Rob Cozens
CCW, Serendipity Software Company
http://www.oenolog.net/who.htm

"And I, which was two fooles, do so grow three;
Who are a little wise, the best fooles bee."

from "The Triple Foole" by John Donne (1572-1631)

From JimCarwardine at OwnYourFuture-net.com  Sat Feb  7 11:29:05 2004
From: JimCarwardine at OwnYourFuture-net.com (Jim Carwardine)
Date: Sat, 07 Feb 2004 12:29:05 -0400
Subject: Application Generators
In-Reply-To: <40216453.5030506@bestweb.net>
Message-ID: <BC4A8A91.4F73%JimCarwardine@OwnYourFuture-net.com>

I wrote an eBook creator in 1988 in HC called BookBuilder? which was way
ahead of its time, but included all the multimedia available at the time.
It never went commercial because nobody knew what to do with it.  Doing the
same thing in RR is entirely possible (and much easier)... Jim

on 2/4/04 5:29 PM, michael wrote:

> A project I have planned is to develop an application generator, such as
> an eBook Creator, that would compile a new executable, preferrably
> cross-platform.  What I am still hazy on is if I can use revolution to
> do this, both technically and legitimately.
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution

-- 

OYF is... Highly resourceful people working together.
<http://www.OwnYourFuture-net.com>

Own Your Future Consulting Services Limited,
1959 Upper Water Street, Suite 407, Halifax, Nova Scotia. B3J 3N2
Info Line: 902-823-2477, Phone: 902-823-2339. Fax: 902-823-2139




From ambassador at fourthworld.com  Sat Feb  7 11:36:05 2004
From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin)
Date: Sat, 07 Feb 2004 08:36:05 -0800
Subject: Application Generators
In-Reply-To: <BC4A8A91.4F73%JimCarwardine@OwnYourFuture-net.com>
Message-ID: <BC4A53F5.3CDB4%ambassador@fourthworld.com>

Jim Carwardine wrote:

> I wrote an eBook creator in 1988 in HC....  Doing the
> same thing in RR is entirely possible (and much easier)...

More than possible:

<http://www.fourthworld.com/products/sophie/>

:)

-- 
 Richard Gaskin 
 Fourth World Media Corporation
 ___________________________________________________________
 Ambassador at FourthWorld.com       http://www.FourthWorld.com


From jperryl at ecs.fullerton.edu  Sat Feb  7 11:42:40 2004
From: jperryl at ecs.fullerton.edu (Judy Perry)
Date: Sat, 7 Feb 2004 08:42:40 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Application Generators
In-Reply-To: <BC4A53F5.3CDB4%ambassador@fourthworld.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.4.33.0402070841210.21724-100000@titan.ecs.fullerton.edu>

As I loaded the page for this, my husband caught sight of the line:

"What is Sophie?"

And said, I ask myself this all the time...

Nearly 3 is twin daughter Sophie

;-)

Judy

On Sat, 7 Feb 2004, Richard Gaskin wrote:

> > I wrote an eBook creator in 1988 in HC....  Doing the
> > same thing in RR is entirely possible (and much easier)...
>
> More than possible:
>
> <http://www.fourthworld.com/products/sophie/>


From lists at mangomultimedia.com  Sat Feb  7 11:45:11 2004
From: lists at mangomultimedia.com (Trevor DeVore)
Date: Sat, 7 Feb 2004 09:45:11 -0700
Subject: Windows Application Icon
In-Reply-To: <484ED4E0-5930-11D8-AE57-000A9567A3E6@swcp.com>
References: <484ED4E0-5930-11D8-AE57-000A9567A3E6@swcp.com>
Message-ID: <FEDE5BEE-598C-11D8-8059-000A956C462A@mangomultimedia.com>

On Feb 6, 2004, at 10:41 PM, Dar Scott wrote:
> On Friday, February 6, 2004, at 10:21 PM, Mark Brownell wrote:
>
>> I can't believe that at the very end it all breaks down because of an 
>> icon.
>
> A couple years ago Trevor wrote this:
>
>> In the past I have used Microangelo (http://www.impactsoft.com/) to 
>> change the
>> icons for my windows executables.

Another program that I use now is ResourceTuner from Heaven Tools 
<http://heaventools.com/>.  This lets you change icons (not create them 
like Microangelo) and it lets you change information about the 
executable properties.  I always get rid of the private build string as 
well as change the build number of the exe from Revolutions build 
number to my applications build number.  This might not be necessary 
with the new Distribution Builder that Monte did but if you 
distributing your application soon Resource Tuner is available now and 
only $34.


-- 
Trevor DeVore
Blue Mango Multimedia
trevor at mangomultimedia.com


From alex at mindlube.com  Sat Feb  7 11:46:12 2004
From: alex at mindlube.com (Alex Rice)
Date: Sat, 7 Feb 2004 09:46:12 -0700
Subject: The Bitstream VERA font, the first truely crossplatform solution
In-Reply-To: <opr2zr9smf7hj683@smtp.wanadoo.fr>
References: <20040206233146.794DA930311@mail.runrev.com>
	<opr2zr9smf7hj683@smtp.wanadoo.fr>
Message-ID: <232FA2E9-598D-11D8-8827-000393C4760A@mindlube.com>


On Feb 7, 2004, at 1:52 AM, opus.species at wanadoo.fr wrote:

> It could an opportunity for Revolution to embedd these fonts in all 
> versions of Revolution.

One that topic, Runrev please get rid of the "Courier" default in 
script editor of Runrev and embed ProFont instead! It's vaguely similar 
to Apple Monaco. It's my favorite code editing font ever! It's a bitmap 
font but that's fine if you aren't doing graphic design with the font.

<http://www.tobias-jung.de/pics/provsmonaco.gif>
<http://www.tobias-jung.de/seekingprofont/index.html>


--
Alex Rice | Mindlube Software | http://mindlube.com


From dsc at swcp.com  Sat Feb  7 11:48:21 2004
From: dsc at swcp.com (Dar Scott)
Date: Sat, 7 Feb 2004 09:48:21 -0700
Subject: The Bitstream VERA font, the first truely crossplatform solution
In-Reply-To: <97C37900-597C-11D8-8AD3-000A27B49A96@major-k.de>
Message-ID: <703CECAA-598D-11D8-9B4B-000A9567A3E6@swcp.com>


On Saturday, February 7, 2004, at 07:47 AM, Klaus Major wrote:

> just installed them here on OS X and they look great, even in 9 pt on a
> 1600*1200 screen :-)
>
> Will have to test on windows tomorrow...
> I MUST see before i believe ;-)

If anybody reports that these look the same, I'll run my 
formattedHeight and formattedWidth tests.

If there are differences, maybe we should look carefully, pixel by 
pixel, at how fonts look on other applications compared to Revolution 
on the same platform.  My tests have been Revolution to Revolution on 
different platforms.

If any font experts or anybody who stumbled on something that works 
could give some step-by-step advice in setting this up on particular 
platforms, that would be great.  My brain is not working well this 
morning and the jelly shudders at thinking.

Any other candidates?

Dar Scott



From dsc at swcp.com  Sat Feb  7 11:56:11 2004
From: dsc at swcp.com (Dar Scott)
Date: Sat, 7 Feb 2004 09:56:11 -0700
Subject: Windows Application Icon
In-Reply-To: <107A92AE-5933-11D8-9EC9-000A95859272@earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <887455DD-598E-11D8-9B4B-000A9567A3E6@swcp.com>


On Friday, February 6, 2004, at 11:01 PM, Mark Brownell wrote:

>>> In the past I have used Microangelo (http://www.impactsoft.com/) to 
>>> change the
>>> icons for my windows executables.

> Thanks Dar, That has some interesting possibilities.

Just $40.  And there seems to be a downloadable trial version, but I 
don't know if the trial will set icons.

I wonder if it would be possible to make a DB post-processing plugin 
that can do resource management.  It can make resources or maybe force 
them to point to resource properties in the main stack.

Dar Scott



From dsc at swcp.com  Sat Feb  7 12:10:33 2004
From: dsc at swcp.com (Dar Scott)
Date: Sat, 7 Feb 2004 10:10:33 -0700
Subject: Windows Application Icon
In-Reply-To: <FEDE5BEE-598C-11D8-8059-000A956C462A@mangomultimedia.com>
Message-ID: <8A641F6E-5990-11D8-9B4B-000A9567A3E6@swcp.com>


On Saturday, February 7, 2004, at 09:45 AM, Trevor DeVore wrote:

> Another program that I use now is ResourceTuner from Heaven Tools 
> <http://heaventools.com/>.  This lets you change icons (not create 
> them like Microangelo) and it lets you change information about the 
> executable properties.  I always get rid of the private build string 
> as well as change the build number of the exe from Revolutions build 
> number to my applications build number.  This might not be necessary 
> with the new Distribution Builder that Monte did but if you 
> distributing your application soon Resource Tuner is available now and 
> only $34.

The description at that page doesn't mention fonts, which have come up 
on another thread.  Would an embedded font be attached as a resource?  
Is that sufficient to make the fonts available to the application?

Dar Scott


From revdan at danshafer.com  Sat Feb  7 12:21:01 2004
From: revdan at danshafer.com (Dan Shafer)
Date: Sat, 7 Feb 2004 09:21:01 -0800
Subject: Andy's comments and positioning...
In-Reply-To: <20040207053732.48772.qmail@web61105.mail.yahoo.com>
References: <20040207053732.48772.qmail@web61105.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <00966338-5992-11D8-9F4B-0030656FB5D4@danshafer.com>

OK, now I'm going to step in and tick off some folks and probably 
generate yet another round of discussion here.

WARNING: Long and opinionated.

Full Disclosure: Even though I use Rev "professionally" I do not 
consider myself primarily a professional programmer. I'm a tinkerer 
first. It's nice I get paid to do this stuff but I'd do it even if I 
didn't get paid (though I'd work on different projects!). I'm focused 
on my long-time role as the champion of the Inventive User. I invented 
the term if not the concept. I could give a good rodent's behind about 
professional developers as a market because of two perceptions gained 
from three decades living in their world: (1) They resist, as a group, 
changing languages and tools once they've learned one and invested gobs 
of time in building up libraries, learning where the bodybugs are 
buried, and developed a rep; (2) It's difficult or impossible to form 
real support communities around them because of the need for them to 
treat lots of stuff as proprietary and their need to stay focused on 
their tasks as opposed to helping some other poor soul.

I allow the possibility -- even the probability -- that I'm wrong in my 
perceptions. But at least you know where I'm coming from.

<rant>

Back in the days I was touting Smalltalk as the Language of the Gods, 
you couldn't get a serious developer to look at it. A tiny, tiny 
minority did. Of those who did, almost all of them would eventually 
agree it was superior to their current toolset. And they'd still refuse 
to change. "I'm six months behind on my C++ project," they'd say. "I'd 
love to be able to take the time now to switch and master Smalltalk but 
I can't afford the cut in pay."

So to me, you build interest and market momentum for a new programming 
tool by tapping into two markets: education and hobbyists. Both have 
the potential to become professionals. And both are larger than the 
total market of professional programmers *who are willing to consider a 
new tool*. That audience, as many companies have found out the hard 
way, is much smaller than it appears.

Oh, this is gonna get long. Sorry. But I hope you find it interesting 
if not worthwhile. A couple of decades ago, I was a marketing 
communications guru at Intel. My boss came to me. "Motorola keeps 
beating us at design-in decisions with clearly inferior technology. 
Find out why and tell me how we fix it." Didn't take me long. Motorola 
was providing free SDK's (System Design Kits) to any college 
engineering professor who wanted them for his students, and providing 
them for free. When those engineers graduated, they'd get to their 
first job. Their boss would say, "Here's your first project. It's eight 
months behind schedule. What tools do you want?" The newly minted 
engineer would open his or her briefcase, point to the Motorola SDK and 
say, "I already know how to use this." The boss would ask, "Will it do 
what we need to do here?" The new engineer would say "Yes." "Then order 
it," the boss would say.

Intel started a competing SDK program for colleges and universities. I 
helped build that program. In three years, Intel was out-performing 
Motorola in those situations again.

So the education market is crucial, but it takes years to show an 
impact in the market. Only a company with huge resources can afford to 
give *hardware* away to that group. But a software company? If you 
don't offer support and you deliver the product electronically, your 
costs to seed the education market -- other than marketing -- are 
vanishingly small.

That said, I also tired quickly as I did that study for Intel of 
educational institutions and educators who (not universally but often 
enough to come to my attention): (a) demanded free or low-cost stuff 
even though they recommend textbooks that cost hundreds of dollars, 
some of which the recommending profs wrote; (b) garnered substantial 
government grants whose proceeds could have been put to use in buying 
stuff for students rather than paying assistants and buying travel & 
entertainment to attend conferences; (c) demanded extensive tech 
support; (d) in general, acted as if the world owed them a living. I 
saw a lot of that. A lot.

So I say to educators: if Rev is a great tool for teaching your class, 
how about getting some budget for it so the company can still be in 
business when your students graduate and look for jobs? And I say to 
Rev, if you find educational markets where penetration has serious 
long-term potential value, discount the heck out of the product or 
offer it free. But don't let those activities divert any substantial 
resources from continuing to develop the tool us 
hobbyists-cum-professionals need and are willing to pay for.

</rant>


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Dan Shafer, Revolutionary
Author of  "Revolution: Software at the Speed of Thought"
http://www.revolutionpros.com for more info
Available at Runtime Revolution Store (http://www.runrev.com/RevPress)


From revdan at danshafer.com  Sat Feb  7 12:26:26 2004
From: revdan at danshafer.com (Dan Shafer)
Date: Sat, 7 Feb 2004 09:26:26 -0800
Subject: go vs open?
In-Reply-To: <p0601027cbc4a399529b8@[10.0.1.3]>
References: <40AF9FE8-592B-11D8-85C0-0030656FB5D4@danshafer.com>
	<p0601027cbc4a399529b8@[10.0.1.3]>
Message-ID: <C21E0068-5992-11D8-9F4B-0030656FB5D4@danshafer.com>

Jeanne....

Your questions led me to discover the problem. Thanks.

The stack in question was open, but hidden. Using "open" or "go" on a 
stack that's already open won't show it and bring it to the front. You 
have to "show" it.

My guess is that the condition of the stack was different (i.e., hidden 
sometimes, closed others) and that's why the problem *seemed* to arise.

I decided ultimately not to hide the stack but to close it. I hope that 
doesn't eventually bite me in the butt; I'm always hesitant to close 
things because of my remaining uncertainty about what happens to the 
stacks data and state when I do that. I guess I'm about to find out.

Gulp.

On Feb 6, 2004, at 10:45 PM, Jeanne A. E. DeVoto wrote:

> At 9:05 PM -0800 2/6/04, Dan Shafer wrote:
>> open stack "PIClearingNew"
>>
>> When it executes, the stack opens fine. But the error dialog pops up 
>> and tells me there's an error on that line.
>>
>> If I change "open" to "go" it works fine and I get no error.
>
>
> They should be synonymous, but maybe there's some glitch.
>
> Is the stack open at the time, or closed? If open, frontmost or not?
>
Closed. Actually, probably more often it's open but hidden. Definitely 
not frontmost.

> Do you get the same error if you simply enter the command in the 
> message box, without the surrounding script?
>
> What happens if you retype the word "open" into the script, 
> eliminating any possibility that some weird invisible character has 
> sneaked in?
> -- 
> jeanne a. e. devoto ~ jaed at jaedworks.com
> http://www.jaedworks.com
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>
>
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Dan Shafer, Revolutionary
Author of  "Revolution: Software at the Speed of Thought"
http://www.revolutionpros.com for more info
Available at Runtime Revolution Store (http://www.runrev.com/RevPress)


From jhurley at infostations.com  Sat Feb  7 12:40:23 2004
From: jhurley at infostations.com (Jim Hurley)
Date: Sat, 7 Feb 2004 09:40:23 -0800
Subject: Puzzled about stack size
In-Reply-To: <20040207170016.200C9930398@mail.runrev.com>
References: <20040207170016.200C9930398@mail.runrev.com>
Message-ID: <a05100302bc4ad08887d2@[66.81.137.137]>

I have a stack which has one card, about 25 controls and about 800 
lines of script, no graphics, and no images. Pretty much a bare bones 
stack. It is a utility stack I use for working on database materials.

In the interest of saving space in the file, I deleted the text from 
all fields, yet the stack file shows about 6 megabytes!

I created a new stack with the same number of controls and inserted 
800 lines of text in one of the fields. The file is about 24 K.

Now the db stack originally contained massive amounts of county 
election data. But all of that is gone now, and yet the stack is 
still 6 megs.

I know that RR does not have a separate utility to compact stack as 
in the old HC days; that is supposedly done with each save (save from 
the menu bar.)

I have many stacks with more controls, longer scripts, a few 
graphics, and images. Yet they are a fraction of the size of this one 
DB stack. What could be eating up  all this space?

Jim

From rcozens at pon.net  Sat Feb  7 10:43:45 2004
From: rcozens at pon.net (Rob Cozens)
Date: Sat, 7 Feb 2004 08:43:45 -0700
Subject: Compression and Decompression of multiple files
In-Reply-To: <000b01c3ecd0$75913870$6b834c51@LAPTOP>
References: <000b01c3ecd0$75913870$6b834c51@LAPTOP>
Message-ID: <a05100304bc4ab35695ee@[66.52.165.55]>

>Has anyone got any ideas as to how revolution could compress the files
>and subfolders of a folder?

Hi Thomas,

Richard Gaskin, Sarah Richert, yours truly, and others have gotten as 
far as you; but no one I know of has taken the next step: combining 
individual file compression logic with the recursive logic of the 
Transcript Directory Walker.  Sarah & I have done some preliminary 
work to combine her drag-and-drop compression utility, SDB Tools 
compression utility (which, besides simple compression, includes 
logic to default the file type of Windows & Unix stacks for seamless 
transfer to Mac O/S platforms, and prevent the user from 
decompressing a file with a Mac O/S resource fork on a non-Mac 
platform); but it's a VERY low priority for both of us at the moment.

The design I have in mind would create a list of all files & their 
folder locations via a tweaked Directory Walker command, compress 
each file individually, append the individual compressed files, and 
append an index of the archive listing each file's size & byte offset 
from the beginning of the archive file.

Simple decompression would simply decompress the entire contents of 
the folder.  A more elegant solution would display the archive index 
and allow the user to select individual files for decompression
-- 

Rob Cozens
CCW, Serendipity Software Company
http://www.oenolog.net/who.htm

"And I, which was two fooles, do so grow three;
Who are a little wise, the best fooles bee."

from "The Triple Foole" by John Donne (1572-1631)

From rcozens at pon.net  Sat Feb  7 11:36:18 2004
From: rcozens at pon.net (Rob Cozens)
Date: Sat, 7 Feb 2004 09:36:18 -0700
Subject: Labels and labeled Fields
In-Reply-To: <20040207051014.84701.qmail@web61102.mail.yahoo.com>
References: <20040207051014.84701.qmail@web61102.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <a05100305bc4ab9a51171@[66.52.165.55]>

>why would you want to interact with a label?

Thanks for asking, Eric.

For the first 15 years of my programming career, the programming 
environments I worked in only allowed me white, green, or amber ASCII 
characters on a black background to "paint" an input screen.  The 
programming syntax allowed me to manipulate numbers & text only.

Ever since I started working with HyperCard, one primary area of 
personal exploration is how to include graphics, sound, color, 
animation, etc. to enrich the user interface and engage users on more 
sensory levels.  Over the years I have developed a strong preference 
for point-&-click, button-driven interfaces...in fact most, if not 
all, pull-down menus in Serendipity Library's component stacks are my 
concession to the prevalent design mode and are there for developers 
who are not comfortable with my approach.

In my own application design, field input is strictly controlled a la 
traditional data entry programs:

* Only one field in a window is unlocked & open for input at any one time.

* While a field is open for input, each keystroke is filtered against 
the field specification in the Data Dictionary.

* On closeField the input is validated, optionally reformatted (eg: 
add thousands separator{s} and/or currency symbol), and locked.

* At closeField, the next field to be opened is determined (sometimes 
based on what was enter in the field just closed), unlocked, and 
selected for the user.

So when adding a new record, each field is simply opened & closed in turn.

But what to do if the user wants to edit an existing record?  My 
solution is to enable the title (label) buttons to open their data 
field on mouseUp.  At this point you also need to know that another 
mainstay of my design philosophy is a multi-line prompt/help field at 
the bottom of the window which, among other things, displays a 
description of the function of each enabled button when the mouse is 
over the button...kind of like a multi-line tool tip field that 
displays tips in a fixed location instead of having them pop up where 
ever.

Each title button can have five different icons.  I create the same 
icon in color, b&w, and gray.  When the icon is gray, the user knows 
the button is disabled; when the button is b&w, the user knows it is 
enabled...and an enabled button will turn to color when it is armed 
on mouseEnter.

Actually, I play may other tricks with button icons to increase user feedback.

If this still leaves you wondering, Eric, a picture is worth 1 K 
words: the best example in the current Serendipity Library download 
is the Data Dictionary window in the database Edit menu (which is 
moved from the db menu to the SDB Tools menu in the next release).
-- 

Rob Cozens
CCW, Serendipity Software Company
http://www.oenolog.net/who.htm

"And I, which was two fooles, do so grow three;
Who are a little wise, the best fooles bee."

from "The Triple Foole" by John Donne (1572-1631)

From alex at mindlube.com  Sat Feb  7 12:50:35 2004
From: alex at mindlube.com (Alex Rice)
Date: Sat, 7 Feb 2004 10:50:35 -0700
Subject: Puzzled about stack size
In-Reply-To: <a05100302bc4ad08887d2@[66.81.137.137]>
References: <20040207170016.200C9930398@mail.runrev.com>
	<a05100302bc4ad08887d2@[66.81.137.137]>
Message-ID: <21C376BC-5996-11D8-8827-000393C4760A@mindlube.com>


On Feb 7, 2004, at 10:40 AM, Jim Hurley wrote:

> What could be eating up  all this space?

Are you using background groups or custom properties?  Both of these 
could be "hiding" data from you. Application Browser does not show 
unplaced background groups, I think, which is kind of tricky.

--
Alex Rice | Mindlube Software | http://mindlube.com


From dsc at swcp.com  Sat Feb  7 12:55:27 2004
From: dsc at swcp.com (Dar Scott)
Date: Sat, 7 Feb 2004 10:55:27 -0700
Subject: Puzzled about stack size
In-Reply-To: <a05100302bc4ad08887d2@[66.81.137.137]>
Message-ID: <D0198A76-5996-11D8-9B4B-000A9567A3E6@swcp.com>


On Saturday, February 7, 2004, at 10:40 AM, Jim Hurley wrote:
>
> Now the db stack originally contained massive amounts of county 
> election data. But all of that is gone now, and yet the stack is still 
> 6 megs.
>
> I have many stacks with more controls, longer scripts, a few graphics, 
> and images. Yet they are a fraction of the size of this one DB stack. 
> What could be eating up  all this space?
>
I made a stack and put my novel into a field.  I saved the stack.  The 
size is 612,669 bytes.  I deleted the novel from the field.  I saved 
the stack.  The size is less than 4K.  So size seems OK for me.

Could you have some data in a custom property?  For backup or 
something?  Or used by your db connection?

Dar Scott


From ambassador at fourthworld.com  Sat Feb  7 12:58:02 2004
From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin)
Date: Sat, 07 Feb 2004 09:58:02 -0800
Subject: Compression and Decompression of multiple files
In-Reply-To: <a05100304bc4ab35695ee@[66.52.165.55]>
Message-ID: <BC4A672A.3CDCE%ambassador@fourthworld.com>

Rob Cozens wrote:

> Richard Gaskin, Sarah Richert, yours truly, and others have gotten as
> far as you; but no one I know of has taken the next step: combining
> individual file compression logic with the recursive logic of the
> Transcript Directory Walker.

I didn't realize this was seen as a challenge.  It's not too hard:

- Use a stackfile for storage
- store compressed file data in one property set
- store file metadata in another property set
- recombine as needed on the backside

I made a tool for this some time ago but never finished it because it seemed
less useful than tar archives, which are very common but much harder to
make.

-- 
 Richard Gaskin 
 Fourth World Media Corporation
 ___________________________________________________________
 Ambassador at FourthWorld.com       http://www.FourthWorld.com


From alex at mindlube.com  Sat Feb  7 13:04:51 2004
From: alex at mindlube.com (Alex Rice)
Date: Sat, 7 Feb 2004 11:04:51 -0700
Subject: Compression and Decompression of multiple files
In-Reply-To: <a05100304bc4ab35695ee@[66.52.165.55]>
References: <000b01c3ecd0$75913870$6b834c51@LAPTOP>
	<a05100304bc4ab35695ee@[66.52.165.55]>
Message-ID: <20104B5C-5998-11D8-8827-000393C4760A@mindlube.com>


On Feb 7, 2004, at 8:43 AM, Rob Cozens wrote:

> The design I have in mind would create a list of all files & their 
> folder locations via a tweaked Directory Walker command, compress each 
> file individually, append the individual compressed files, and append 
> an index of the archive listing each file's size & byte offset from 
> the beginning of the archive file.

Rob, just some thoughts:

It sounds like you would not be leveraging the structure of a "data 
stack" as the underlying format for the archive? If you aren't going to 
leverage a "data stack" then maybe it should just be a ZIP or TAR 
engine so as to be a more compatible format?

For a non-compatible format, I would use custom properties of a stack, 
to attach compressed files. instead of a byte offset. Don't you think 
that would be better, and easier to code?

Java has "jar" archives, which works kind of like tar plus compression. 
This kind of thing should really be standardized by Runrev (akin to 
Java's "jar" format).

--
Alex Rice | Mindlube Software | http://mindlube.com


From chrism at lumin.us  Sat Feb  7 13:04:44 2004
From: chrism at lumin.us (Christopher Mitchell)
Date: Sat, 7 Feb 2004 12:04:44 -0600
Subject: fixedLineHeight = a great help
In-Reply-To: <40250794.4030401@hyperactivesw.com>
References: <000d01c3ed3c$338c28b0$6601a8c0@LightningFlash>
	<CCDC5F7A-5933-11D8-9BA4-000393B64EDC@lumin.us>
	<402484C5.2070605@hyperactivesw.com>
	<5C5EA6E8-5939-11D8-9BA4-000393B64EDC@lumin.us>
	<40250794.4030401@hyperactivesw.com>
Message-ID: <1BEA6BC0-5998-11D8-985F-000393B64EDC@lumin.us>

Aye, thanks.  It was easily enough figured out because the lineheight 
property box became marked for selection when the fixed box was 
checked.

Yours,
Chris
On Feb 7, 2004, at 9:43 AM, J. Landman Gay wrote:

> On 2/7/04 12:46 AM, Christopher Mitchell wrote:
>
>> fixedlineheight and adjustment of the lineHeight value has made a 
>> huge difference.  Thanks for pointing this out, even the Hebrew font 
>> looks reasonably well placed now!
>
> Glad it worked out for you. For the record: when I am not so tired and 
> my brain is more functional, I'd have referred to the "textheight" 
> rather than the "lineheight". There is no property called 
> "lineheight". The regulars probably knew what I meant, but since you 
> are new to Rev, I thought I'd better correct myself.
>
> -- 
> Jacqueline Landman Gay         |     jacque at hyperactivesw.com
> HyperActive Software           |     http://www.hyperactivesw.com
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>


From ambassador at fourthworld.com  Sat Feb  7 13:09:17 2004
From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin)
Date: Sat, 07 Feb 2004 10:09:17 -0800
Subject: Andy's comments and positioning...
In-Reply-To: <00966338-5992-11D8-9F4B-0030656FB5D4@danshafer.com>
Message-ID: <BC4A69CC.3CDCF%ambassador@fourthworld.com>

Dan Shafer wrote:

> I could give a good rodent's behind about professional developers
> as a market because of two perceptions gained from three decades
> living in their world: (1) They resist, as a group, changing
> languages and tools once they've learned one and invested gobs
> of time in building up libraries, learning where the bodybugs are
> buried, and developed a rep;

That's not limited to professional developers, it's just human nature. Talk
to Illustrator and Freehand users (or Quark and InDesign users, or
Dreamweaver and GoLive users, Mac and Win users, Ford and Chevy drivers,
etc.) to see that dynamic played out in different fields.

> (2) It's difficult or impossible to form real support communities
> around them because of the need for them to treat lots of stuff
> as proprietary and their need to stay focused on their tasks as
> opposed to helping some other poor soul.

Actually, the majority of free code, advice, and other openly shared
resources in the Rev community seems to be coming from people who earn their
living with scripting.

...
> Back in the days I was touting Smalltalk as the Language of the Gods,
> you couldn't get a serious developer to look at it. A tiny, tiny
> minority did. Of those who did, almost all of them would eventually
> agree it was superior to their current toolset. And they'd still refuse
> to change. "I'm six months behind on my C++ project," they'd say. "I'd
> love to be able to take the time now to switch and master Smalltalk but
> I can't afford the cut in pay."

Professional *programmers* are a subset of professional developers.  By far
the majority of pro developers are scripters, using JavaScript, Perl, etc.
for Web development.

I would agree with the observation that those making their living with C++
are less likely to change, but that's true of any successful person -- if
they make good money doing one thing why do something else?

Far more likely to change are VB developers.  Extra bonus points that
they're currently really unhappy with .Net and its 48MB install.

And even more likely to change are the many professional *scripters* for
whom adopting Rev wuld not be a change at all, but a compliment to the
professional Web development services they already offer.

Professional scripters outnumber professional low-level programmers by at
least two orders of magnitude. They are already familiar with the strengths
of scripting, and are comfortable using multiple languages.

Most professional scripters have everything they need except a
cost-effective GUI application development system, esp. one that deploys on
as many systems as their Web apps.  By adding Rev to their mix suddenly all
sorts of opportunities open up for them, from custom tools for business
managers to VPN UIs to CD-ROM sales tools to commercial products that would
be difficult or impossible to do well on the Web.

 
None of this is to discount the relevance of the education market, which may
indeed be well worth creating a very focused product for.  Heck, nothing's
stopped a good many educators froom using Rev now.

But I would suggest that the professional-quality scripting tool we have
today is a powerful thing well worthy of the MacEddy it just won, and that
the professional scripters who've carried the technology and the community
forward these many years are worth at least a few rodent behinds.

-- 
 Richard Gaskin 
 Fourth World Media Corporation
 ___________________________________________________________
 Ambassador at FourthWorld.com       http://www.FourthWorld.com


From JimCarwardine at OwnYourFuture-net.com  Sat Feb  7 13:01:08 2004
From: JimCarwardine at OwnYourFuture-net.com (Jim Carwardine)
Date: Sat, 07 Feb 2004 14:01:08 -0400
Subject: Application Generators
In-Reply-To: <BC4A53F5.3CDB4%ambassador@fourthworld.com>
Message-ID: <BC4AA023.4F84%JimCarwardine@OwnYourFuture-net.com>

Sophie looks great.  I had margin notes that were linked in threads that
wove through the eLibrary.  You could print the threads out that included
the text excerpt as well as the margin note, allowing the synthesis of new
knowledge.  My search was an x-library search with a user selected set of
eBooks to search.  I allowed the search hits to be created as linked margin
notes if that user wanted them that way.... Jim

on 2/7/04 12:36 PM, Richard Gaskin wrote:

> Jim Carwardine wrote:
> 
>> I wrote an eBook creator in 1988 in HC....  Doing the
>> same thing in RR is entirely possible (and much easier)...
> 
> More than possible:
> 
> <http://www.fourthworld.com/products/sophie/>
> 
> :)

-- 

OYF is... Highly resourceful people working together.
<http://www.OwnYourFuture-net.com>

Own Your Future Consulting Services Limited,
1959 Upper Water Street, Suite 407, Halifax, Nova Scotia. B3J 3N2
Info Line: 902-823-2477, Phone: 902-823-2339. Fax: 902-823-2139




From rcozens at pon.net  Sat Feb  7 12:12:07 2004
From: rcozens at pon.net (Rob Cozens)
Date: Sat, 7 Feb 2004 10:12:07 -0700
Subject: Puzzled about stack size
In-Reply-To: <a05100302bc4ad08887d2@[66.81.137.137]>
References: <20040207170016.200C9930398@mail.runrev.com>
 <a05100302bc4ad08887d2@[66.81.137.137]>
Message-ID: <a05100309bc4aca37f629@[66.52.165.55]>

>I have many stacks with more controls, longer scripts, a few 
>graphics, and images. Yet they are a fraction of the size of this 
>one DB stack. What could be eating up  all this space?

Hi Jim,

No answers, but some thoughts:

* Does the db stack contain externals?

* Does it incorporate a large image or clip?

* Does it incorporate a small image that accidentally had its rect reset?

* Have you opened the stack in the Application Browser and checked 
the list of controls on each card...including the size of their 
scripts?

* If you open & close the stack without adding anything to it, does 
stack size remain static or grow?

If none of that helps, is it feasible to open the stack, delete a 
card or group, close the stack, check stack size, and repeat the 
process until you see a dramatic change in stack size?  Then you 
could go back to the card or group you deleted and repeat the process 
deleting one control at a time.  It's tedious, I know, but it should 
isolate the source of the problem.  Perhaps you could write a script 
that would automate the process?
-- 

Rob Cozens
CCW, Serendipity Software Company
http://www.oenolog.net/who.htm

"And I, which was two fooles, do so grow three;
Who are a little wise, the best fooles bee."

from "The Triple Foole" by John Donne (1572-1631)

From dsc at swcp.com  Sat Feb  7 13:51:47 2004
From: dsc at swcp.com (Dar Scott)
Date: Sat, 7 Feb 2004 11:51:47 -0700
Subject: Tagging certain objects with contact, copyright, etc
Message-ID: <AE81F2B9-599E-11D8-9B4B-000A9567A3E6@swcp.com>

I have been thinking of getting into the habit of making sure that 
certain kinds of objects I create are tagged with some info.

For objects, I'm thinking of the mainStack in stackfiles, back script 
buttons and custom controls, anything that might have a life of its own.

I was thinking of tagging with read-only properties.

The information might be these:
Copyright
Contact Info
Long Unique Name

In might also include these:
file name (whatever this means)
Description

I think if these are in multiple properties, then they should share a 
prefix in the property name.

Later, I expect to add other read-only properties applicable to the 
type of object.

Is there a common practice that already addresses this?

If folks are already doing this, I don't want to go off in another 
direction (unless there is good reason).

Dar Scott


From rcozens at pon.net  Sat Feb  7 12:39:38 2004
From: rcozens at pon.net (Rob Cozens)
Date: Sat, 7 Feb 2004 10:39:38 -0700
Subject: Compression and Decompression of multiple files
In-Reply-To: <BC4A672A.3CDCE%ambassador@fourthworld.com>
References: <BC4A672A.3CDCE%ambassador@fourthworld.com>
Message-ID: <a0510030bbc4ad2bbf637@[66.52.165.55]>

>I made a tool for this some time ago but never finished it because it seemed
>less useful than tar archives, which are very common but much harder to
>make.

The StuffIt tar archiver I use seems to do no compression...at least 
compared to .sits, .seas, and Windows .zips.  Is that normal?  Is 
there nothing better (at building a smaller archive from the same 
files) available to the Unix community?
-- 

Rob Cozens
CCW, Serendipity Software Company
http://www.oenolog.net/who.htm

"And I, which was two fooles, do so grow three;
Who are a little wise, the best fooles bee."

from "The Triple Foole" by John Donne (1572-1631)

From rcozens at pon.net  Sat Feb  7 12:54:12 2004
From: rcozens at pon.net (Rob Cozens)
Date: Sat, 7 Feb 2004 10:54:12 -0700
Subject: Compression and Decompression of multiple files
In-Reply-To: <20104B5C-5998-11D8-8827-000393C4760A@mindlube.com>
References: <000b01c3ecd0$75913870$6b834c51@LAPTOP>
 <a05100304bc4ab35695ee@[66.52.165.55]>
 <20104B5C-5998-11D8-8827-000393C4760A@mindlube.com>
Message-ID: <a0510030cbc4ad3b931df@[66.52.165.55]>

>It sounds like you would not be leveraging the structure of a "data 
>stack" as the underlying format for the archive? If you aren't going 
>to leverage a "data stack" then maybe it should just be a ZIP or TAR 
>engine so as to be a more compatible format?

Interesting idea, Alex.  Yes, one could incorporate cards & nested 
groups to create the archive design and index and never need to 
append the individually-compressed files.  I'll paste your suggestion 
next to the far back burner where the project is barely cooking.

In answer to why not use ZIP or TAR, my goal is to create a universal 
folder compression/decompression utility in Transcript for deployment 
across all Revolution hardware platforms.  Ideally, I want to 
simplify serendipity_downloader.htm to contain one file bundle for 
Mac, Windows, & Unix developers in the archive format and one 
compression/decompression utility stack.  It also seems to me such a 
tool could easily evolve into a generic Revolution stack/standalone 
installer.
-- 

Rob Cozens
CCW, Serendipity Software Company
http://www.oenolog.net/who.htm

"And I, which was two fooles, do so grow three;
Who are a little wise, the best fooles bee."

from "The Triple Foole" by John Donne (1572-1631)

From rcozens at pon.net  Sat Feb  7 13:18:34 2004
From: rcozens at pon.net (Rob Cozens)
Date: Sat, 7 Feb 2004 11:18:34 -0700
Subject: The Value of Rev Stacks One Never Sells
In-Reply-To: <BC4A69CC.3CDCF%ambassador@fourthworld.com>
References: <BC4A69CC.3CDCF%ambassador@fourthworld.com>
Message-ID: <a0510030ebc4ad7841625@[66.52.165.55]>

>By adding Rev to their mix suddenly all
>sorts of opportunities open up for them, from custom tools for business
>managers to VPN UIs to CD-ROM sales tools to commercial products that would
>be difficult or impossible to do well on the Web

Let me, if I may, use this portion of Richard's excellent analysis to 
suggest there is even more value available to you when you start 
using Revolution for in-house, throwaway projects.  For years I have 
used HyperCard for any task requiring combining text and images. 
This includes letterhead, CD labels, advertising copy layout, "slide 
show" presentations, online manuals, etc.

More recently, a long-time client asked me to prepare a summary of 
the reasoning for converting the drywall estimating software I wrote 
for them ca 1988 to Revolution and exploring how the software might 
present itself.  In response I delivered a CD with a Revolution 
standalone consisting of a letterhead field, a scrolling text field, 
three buttons, and three substacks.

The standalone opens & reads like a scrolling letter, until the field 
scrolls completely to the end.  At that point the three buttons 
appear.  MouseUp at any button displays one of three possible designs 
for the main input screen.

So don't overlook how Revolution can work for you in-house as you use 
it to develop the products that pay the rent.
-- 

Rob Cozens
CCW, Serendipity Software Company
http://www.oenolog.net/who.htm

"And I, which was two fooles, do so grow three;
Who are a little wise, the best fooles bee."

from "The Triple Foole" by John Donne (1572-1631)

From jackass at bestweb.net  Sat Feb  7 14:24:39 2004
From: jackass at bestweb.net (michael)
Date: Sat, 07 Feb 2004 14:24:39 -0500
Subject: Application Generators
In-Reply-To: <20040207163745.E05E8930374@mail.runrev.com>
References: <20040207163745.E05E8930374@mail.runrev.com>
Message-ID: <40253B77.5050001@bestweb.net>

I noticed Sophie Reader but saw nothing about a Sophie Authoring app.  
Any info on that? 
Something along the lines of TK3 by http://nightkitchen.com is close to 
what I am looking for.
Sophie is definately nice though.  Maybe you can provide more info on 
thebackend tool(s).

Thanks.

Michael

>  
>


From sims at ezpzapps.com  Sat Feb  7 14:31:13 2004
From: sims at ezpzapps.com (sims)
Date: Sat, 7 Feb 2004 20:31:13 +0100
Subject: SMS from Rev CGI
In-Reply-To: <40220B6E.83BDCF@Club-Internet.fr>
References: <40220B6E.83BDCF@Club-Internet.fr>
Message-ID: <a05200f00bc4aec2bf558@[192.168.10.54]>

>I'd like to send SMS to individual mobile phones
>from a Rev CGI script...
>Could this be done with libSMPT ? If not, what
>other solutions ?

Perhaps you can use ICQ and libSMPT?

country code + mobile number @ icqsms.com

Have a look at the following web page:
http://web.icq.com/help/quickhelp/1,,1728,00.html?mul=1

atb

sims

From kray at sonsothunder.com  Sat Feb  7 14:25:26 2004
From: kray at sonsothunder.com (Ken Ray)
Date: Sat, 7 Feb 2004 13:25:26 -0600
Subject: The Bitstream VERA font, the first truely crossplatform solution
In-Reply-To: <232FA2E9-598D-11D8-8827-000393C4760A@mindlube.com>
Message-ID: <008001c3edb0$2748df20$6601a8c0@LightningFlash>

> One that topic, Runrev please get rid of the "Courier" default in 
> script editor of Runrev and embed ProFont instead! 

I was *wondering* where ProFont was... I used to use that a lot in the
early days. Thanks, Alex!

BTW: Do you know where "ASCIIFont" is? It was a font that put the ASCII
numbers underneath each of the letters and was *extremely* useful...

Ken Ray
Sons of Thunder Software
Email: kray at sonsothunder.com
Web Site: http://www.sonsothunder.com/ 



From ambassador at fourthworld.com  Sat Feb  7 14:27:15 2004
From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin)
Date: Sat, 07 Feb 2004 11:27:15 -0800
Subject: Compression and Decompression of multiple files
In-Reply-To: <a0510030bbc4ad2bbf637@[66.52.165.55]>
Message-ID: <BC4A7C13.3CDDE%ambassador@fourthworld.com>

Rob Cozens wrote:

>> I made a tool for this some time ago but never finished it because it seemed
>> less useful than tar archives, which are very common but much harder to
>> make.
> 
> The StuffIt tar archiver I use seems to do no compression...at least
> compared to .sits, .seas, and Windows .zips.  Is that normal?  Is
> there nothing better (at building a smaller archive from the same
> files) available to the Unix community?

Tar's pretty good: it uses gzip at the core.

-- 
 Richard Gaskin 
 Fourth World Media Corporation
 ___________________________________________________________
 Ambassador at FourthWorld.com       http://www.FourthWorld.com


From ambassador at fourthworld.com  Sat Feb  7 14:28:57 2004
From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin)
Date: Sat, 07 Feb 2004 11:28:57 -0800
Subject: Compression and Decompression of multiple files
In-Reply-To: <a0510030cbc4ad3b931df@[66.52.165.55]>
Message-ID: <BC4A7C79.3CDDF%ambassador@fourthworld.com>

Rob Cozens wrote:

>> It sounds like you would not be leveraging the structure of a "data
>> stack" as the underlying format for the archive? If you aren't going
>> to leverage a "data stack" then maybe it should just be a ZIP or TAR
>> engine so as to be a more compatible format?
> 
> Interesting idea, Alex.  Yes, one could incorporate cards & nested
> groups to create the archive design and index and never need to
> append the individually-compressed files.  I'll paste your suggestion
> next to the far back burner where the project is barely cooking.
> 
> In answer to why not use ZIP or TAR, my goal is to create a universal
> folder compression/decompression utility in Transcript for deployment
> across all Revolution hardware platforms.  Ideally, I want to
> simplify serendipity_downloader.htm to contain one file bundle for
> Mac, Windows, & Unix developers in the archive format and one
> compression/decompression utility stack.  It also seems to me such a
> tool could easily evolve into a generic Revolution stack/standalone
> installer.

The nice thing about using tar as the format is that you save the 2MB engine
size to decompress.

-- 
 Richard Gaskin 
 Fourth World Media Corporation
 ___________________________________________________________
 Ambassador at FourthWorld.com       http://www.FourthWorld.com


From alex at mindlube.com  Sat Feb  7 14:30:40 2004
From: alex at mindlube.com (Alex Rice)
Date: Sat, 7 Feb 2004 12:30:40 -0700
Subject: Compression and Decompression of multiple files
In-Reply-To: <a0510030bbc4ad2bbf637@[66.52.165.55]>
References: <BC4A672A.3CDCE%ambassador@fourthworld.com>
	<a0510030bbc4ad2bbf637@[66.52.165.55]>
Message-ID: <1D17BDD5-59A4-11D8-AC75-000393C4760A@mindlube.com>


On Feb 7, 2004, at 10:39 AM, Rob Cozens wrote:

> The StuffIt tar archiver I use seems to do no compression...at least 
> compared to .sits, .seas, and Windows .zips.  Is that normal?  Is 
> there nothing better (at building a smaller archive from the same 
> files) available to the Unix community?

That's correct TAR does not do compression, it just does archiving. 
However GNU tar can pipe data through gzip, bzip, gunzip, bunzip, etc. 
So in practice, the tar *command* does do compression:

tar xvzf something.tar.gz # expand
tar cvzf something.tar.gz folder1 folder2 file3 ...  # compress


--
Alex Rice | Mindlube Software | http://mindlube.com


From rcozens at pon.net  Sat Feb  7 13:31:26 2004
From: rcozens at pon.net (Rob Cozens)
Date: Sat, 7 Feb 2004 11:31:26 -0700
Subject: Tagging certain objects with contact, copyright, etc
In-Reply-To: <AE81F2B9-599E-11D8-9B4B-000A9567A3E6@swcp.com>
References: <AE81F2B9-599E-11D8-9B4B-000A9567A3E6@swcp.com>
Message-ID: <a0510030fbc4ade2aa5e2@[66.52.165.55]>

>I was thinking of tagging with read-only properties.
>
>The information might be these:
>Copyright
>Contact Info
>Long Unique Name

What is your primary purpose, Dar?

At first blush, at least Copyright & Contact seem candidates for 
display in an About menuItem rather than being hidden in a stack 
property.  OTOH, if you're hiding the copyright in a property to 
protect your legal claim in case some else should change your About 
text and redistribute your work, that's different.

But that wouldn't explain placing contact info where the users will 
never see it.
-- 

Rob Cozens
CCW, Serendipity Software Company
http://www.oenolog.net/who.htm

"And I, which was two fooles, do so grow three;
Who are a little wise, the best fooles bee."

from "The Triple Foole" by John Donne (1572-1631)

From mcdomi at free.fr  Sat Feb  7 14:33:25 2004
From: mcdomi at free.fr (Dom)
Date: Sat, 7 Feb 2004 20:33:25 +0100
Subject: The Bitstream VERA font, the first truely crossplatform solution
In-Reply-To: <232FA2E9-598D-11D8-8827-000393C4760A@mindlube.com>
Message-ID: <1g8swjr.8w5ol11j9xfs2M%mcdomi@free.fr>

Alex Rice <alex at mindlube.com> wrote:

> One that topic, Runrev please get rid of the "Courier" default in 
> script editor of Runrev

I thought it was "Courier new" instead?
As for me, I am using "Andale mono" 
-- at 16: I am sort of shortsighted ;-))

About visually impaired persons: it's a pain for me to read those tiny
chars in the Help ;->
This ought to be a choice!

-- 
Vous parlez fran?ais ? faites un tour sur le groupe francophone !
revolutionfr-subscribe at yahoogroupes.fr

From ambassador at fourthworld.com  Sat Feb  7 14:39:08 2004
From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin)
Date: Sat, 07 Feb 2004 11:39:08 -0800
Subject: Application Generators
In-Reply-To: <40253B77.5050001@bestweb.net>
Message-ID: <BC4A7EDC.3CDE0%ambassador@fourthworld.com>

michael wrote:

> I noticed Sophie Reader but saw nothing about a Sophie Authoring app.
> Any info on that?
> Something along the lines of TK3 by http://nightkitchen.com is close to
> what I am looking for.
> Sophie is definately nice though.  Maybe you can provide more info on
> thebackend tool(s).

Sophie reads plain text (such as Guttenberg ebooks) and styled text using a
subset of HTML augmented with a few Sophie-specific tags to hold metadata
(author, copyright, etc.) and section breaks (chapters, subchapters, etc).

So they're all just text.  :)

Check out the example books Brian Thomas put together to see how they're
laid out.

For greater efficiency you can author in the HTML editor of your choice, or
even in Rev by exporting its HtmlText. Unlike exporting for the Web,
exportingHtmlText from Rev requires no firther modification ffor WYSIWYG
diplay.

We have portions of other fun features built, including the ability to
browse and download from any number of HTTP-based Sophie libraries, and a
Library Publisher tool for organizing libraries, packaging contents, and
writing the index file Sophie's Library Manager would read to show you
what's on the library.

Alas, giving away free software is a hard way to pay the bills, so those
plans sit behind client projects for the moment....'

-- 
 Richard Gaskin 
 Fourth World Media Corporation
 ___________________________________________________________
 Ambassador at FourthWorld.com       http://www.FourthWorld.com


From rcozens at pon.net  Sat Feb  7 13:41:36 2004
From: rcozens at pon.net (Rob Cozens)
Date: Sat, 7 Feb 2004 11:41:36 -0700
Subject: Compression and Decompression of multiple files
In-Reply-To: <BC4A7C79.3CDDF%ambassador@fourthworld.com>
References: <BC4A7C79.3CDDF%ambassador@fourthworld.com>
Message-ID: <a05100310bc4ae1215834@[66.52.165.55]>

>The nice thing about using tar as the format is that you save the 2MB engine
>size to decompress.

Forgetting for the moment use of my proposed utility for 
installation, the same holds true: it relies on the Revolution engine 
to drive the scripts in the archive utility.
-- 

Rob Cozens
CCW, Serendipity Software Company
http://www.oenolog.net/who.htm

"And I, which was two fooles, do so grow three;
Who are a little wise, the best fooles bee."

from "The Triple Foole" by John Donne (1572-1631)

From rcozens at pon.net  Sat Feb  7 13:45:00 2004
From: rcozens at pon.net (Rob Cozens)
Date: Sat, 7 Feb 2004 11:45:00 -0700
Subject: Compression and Decompression of multiple files
In-Reply-To: <1D17BDD5-59A4-11D8-AC75-000393C4760A@mindlube.com>
References: <BC4A672A.3CDCE%ambassador@fourthworld.com>
 <a0510030bbc4ad2bbf637@[66.52.165.55]>
 <1D17BDD5-59A4-11D8-AC75-000393C4760A@mindlube.com>
Message-ID: <a05100311bc4ae21691c4@[66.52.165.55]>

>That's correct TAR does not do compression, it just does archiving. 
>However GNU tar can pipe data through gzip, bzip, gunzip, bunzip, 
>etc. So in practice, the tar *command* does do compression:

This explains why Stuffit for Mac OS doesn't compress the archive.

Alex, Richard, anyone: Is TAR supported on all Revolution platforms?
-- 

Rob Cozens
CCW, Serendipity Software Company
http://www.oenolog.net/who.htm

"And I, which was two fooles, do so grow three;
Who are a little wise, the best fooles bee."

from "The Triple Foole" by John Donne (1572-1631)

From ambassador at fourthworld.com  Sat Feb  7 14:46:14 2004
From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin)
Date: Sat, 07 Feb 2004 11:46:14 -0800
Subject: Tagging certain objects with contact, copyright, etc
In-Reply-To: <a0510030fbc4ade2aa5e2@[66.52.165.55]>
Message-ID: <BC4A8086.3CDE8%ambassador@fourthworld.com>

Rob Cozens wrote:

>> I was thinking of tagging with read-only properties.
>> 
>> The information might be these:
>> Copyright
>> Contact Info
>> Long Unique Name
> 
> What is your primary purpose, Dar?
> 
> At first blush, at least Copyright & Contact seem candidates for
> display in an About menuItem rather than being hidden in a stack
> property. 

I store version info in a property and grab it on the fly for display in the
About box, which provides a convenient place to grab such info from any tool
(such as an updater tool).

I shudder at the thought, but is it worthwhile to arrive at a set of
conventions for naming common metadata properties?  It would likely be a
long and tedious discussion, but we might have greater interoperability of
components if we did.

I'm think of things like version, copyright, publication date, and for
libraries a list of exposed commands and functions, possibly with
descriptions like AppleScript.  As Rev grows there will be greater
opportunities for commercial libraries, so having a common way for other
components to know what's there would allow a script to be locked yet still
be useful (a true black box).

-- 
 Richard Gaskin 
 Fourth World Media Corporation
 ___________________________________________________________
 Ambassador at FourthWorld.com       http://www.FourthWorld.com


From ambassador at fourthworld.com  Sat Feb  7 14:47:25 2004
From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin)
Date: Sat, 07 Feb 2004 11:47:25 -0800
Subject: Compression and Decompression of multiple files
In-Reply-To: <a05100310bc4ae1215834@[66.52.165.55]>
Message-ID: <BC4A80CD.3CDED%ambassador@fourthworld.com>

Rob Cozens wrote:

>> The nice thing about using tar as the format is that you save the 2MB engine
>> size to decompress.
> 
> Forgetting for the moment use of my proposed utility for
> installation, the same holds true: it relies on the Revolution engine
> to drive the scripts in the archive utility.

Sure, but if we can convince someone to do it in Tar we get the same result
with much broader possible uses.

-- 
 Richard Gaskin 
 Fourth World Media Corporation
 Developer of WebMerge: Publish any database on any Web site
 ___________________________________________________________
 Ambassador at FourthWorld.com       http://www.FourthWorld.com


From ambassador at fourthworld.com  Sat Feb  7 14:48:05 2004
From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin)
Date: Sat, 07 Feb 2004 11:48:05 -0800
Subject: Compression and Decompression of multiple files
In-Reply-To: <a05100311bc4ae21691c4@[66.52.165.55]>
Message-ID: <BC4A80F4.3CDEE%ambassador@fourthworld.com>

Rob Cozens wrote:

> Is TAR supported on all Revolution platforms?

TAR is everywhere.

-- 
 Richard Gaskin 
 Fourth World Media Corporation
 ___________________________________________________________
 Ambassador at FourthWorld.com       http://www.FourthWorld.com


From dsc at swcp.com  Sat Feb  7 14:51:07 2004
From: dsc at swcp.com (Dar Scott)
Date: Sat, 7 Feb 2004 12:51:07 -0700
Subject: Tagging certain objects with contact, copyright, etc
In-Reply-To: <a0510030fbc4ade2aa5e2@[66.52.165.55]>
Message-ID: <F84F2D7D-59A6-11D8-9B4B-000A9567A3E6@swcp.com>


On Saturday, February 7, 2004, at 11:31 AM, Rob Cozens wrote:

> At first blush, at least Copyright & Contact seem candidates for 
> display in an About menuItem rather than being hidden in a stack 
> property.

In an application, there is no reason to not have it both places.

> But that wouldn't explain placing contact info where the users will 
> never see it.

Not all stacks are applications.  Many are libraries.  Certainly back 
script buttons and custom controls are almost always not applications.

This allows that info to be included in a uniform way.

It also creates a unique name so that short name conflicts can be 
resolved by some yet-to-be-determined method.  The unique name might 
also be used at some point to help in including stacks.  At runtime 
controls might point to the unique name of a support library.  That 
library might also try to init controls with that unique name pointing 
back at it.  There might be lots of uses for unique names.  I want to 
start using them early before too much of my stuff gets out there.  Or 
in here.

A plugin might look for info in an object library and provide that.

Some folks mentioned dynamic updating of library stacks.  Having a 
read-only property that tells exactly where to get it might be handy.  
Maybe.

A short description might make it easier for me to keep up with my 
re-usable objects.

I got to thinking about this when I was thinking about how I might do 
custom controls.  This is a must smaller set of read-only properties 
and with a broader application, so I thought I'd check and see what 
folks are doing.

Dar Scott


From dsc at swcp.com  Sat Feb  7 14:54:37 2004
From: dsc at swcp.com (Dar Scott)
Date: Sat, 7 Feb 2004 12:54:37 -0700
Subject: Compression and Decompression of multiple files
In-Reply-To: <BC4A80CD.3CDED%ambassador@fourthworld.com>
Message-ID: <7551FE2E-59A7-11D8-9B4B-000A9567A3E6@swcp.com>


On Saturday, February 7, 2004, at 12:47 PM, Richard Gaskin wrote:

> Sure, but if we can convince someone to do it in Tar we get the same 
> result
> with much broader possible uses.

I know what it takes to convince me.

> TAR is everywhere.

Interesting philosophy.

Dar Scott

-- 
****************************************
     Dar Scott Consulting
     http://www.swcp.com/dsc/
     Programming Services
****************************************


From shedrup at ms9.hinet.net  Sat Feb  7 14:57:28 2004
From: shedrup at ms9.hinet.net (Friedrich F. Grohmann)
Date: Sun, 8 Feb 2004 03:57:28 +0800
Subject: crash rash
Message-ID: <200402071955.DAA04126@msr75.hinet.net>

I am working with Rev 2.1.2 on a PowerPC G4 with OS 10.3.2 . Recently, 
Rev has been crashing with great regularity. After saving and closing the 
application I am developing, a mere touch at the menubar will, before I 
can pull down any menu, lead either to an "unexpected" quit or the 
rainbow wheel.

Rev crashed the first time when Chinese text in fields went berserk. 
Though it  seems I've managed to circumvent similar episodes by now, the 
present frequency  of crashes makes me wonder whether nothing more 
fundamental is going wrong. Any help appreciated.

Fritz

From kray at sonsothunder.com  Sat Feb  7 14:57:45 2004
From: kray at sonsothunder.com (Ken Ray)
Date: Sat, 7 Feb 2004 13:57:45 -0600
Subject: Manipulating Old Dates
In-Reply-To: <a05100303bc4aaa256d05@[66.52.165.170]>
Message-ID: <008a01c3edb4$b190d120$6601a8c0@LightningFlash>

Rob,

In the product I'm working on with a client right now, we keep track of
birthdates. And the way we manage it is by setting the centuryCutoff to
one less than the current year (so right now it's "03"). This means that
as long as someone is 99 years old or less, we're OK. It's not a perfect
solution, but it's working so far.

Ken Ray
Sons of Thunder Software
Email: kray at sonsothunder.com
Web Site: http://www.sonsothunder.com/ 

> -----Original Message-----
> From: use-revolution-bounces at lists.runrev.com 
> [mailto:use-revolution-bounces at lists.runrev.com] On Behalf Of 
> Rob Cozens
> Sent: Saturday, February 07, 2004 9:18 AM
> To: How to use Revolution
> Subject: Manipulating Old Dates
> 
> 
> Several months ago I had a conversation with Ken Ray about the 
> shortcomings of Transcript's date manipulation commands when applied 
> to dates more than half a century old (or in the future).  I was 
> reminded of the issue when Douglas McKay wrote to tell me Serendipity 
> Library's validDate function did not work for the date he entered.
> 
> So I created a stack, a button, and a handler:
> 
> 	on mouseUp
> 		ask "Enter a date:"
> 		convert it to dateItems
> 		put "The converted date is"&&it
> 	end mouseUp
> 
> I took a day, Feb. 8, and ran the handler several times, changing the 
> year by a decade each time.
> 
>   	"2/8/44" yields "1944,8,2...
> 	"2/8/34" yields "2034,8,2...
> 	"2/8/1934" yields "2034,8,2...
> 
> The first two results are predictable, as the centuryCutoff property 
> defaults to 35.  The third result suggests to me that all date 
> conversion uses seconds as an intermediate conversion format (and 
> probably that is why one can add to the seconds, days, and months and 
> get a correct date WITHIN THE RANGE OF THE CENTURY CUTOFF).
> 
> So just how does one work around this shortcoming, especially when 
> dealing with current & past dates concurrently?  For example, I have 
> a stack that charts biorhythms from any date based on the subject's 
> dob.  Normally, biorhythms are charted from a current date a few 
> months into the future; so one would expect the starting date to work 
> with a centuryCutoff of 35 (until 2036).  But what of birth dates? 
> Again, biorhythms are normally charted for living persons, not 
> historical figures; but even so there are people alive today that 
> could have been born in the 19th, 20th, or 21st centuries.
> 
> How does one deal with these issues given Transcript's date 
> handling commands?
> 
> And isn't the centuryCutoff property setting developers up for "baby 
> Y2K" conversion issues as the default centuryCutoff approaches?
> 
> When Ken & I spoke, we discussed the need for Julian date handlers in 
> Transcript.  I have Julian date routines in my old FORTRAN & PL/1 
> libraries.  Is it time they were incorporated into Serendipity 
> Library?
> 
> Rob Cozens
> CCW, Serendipity Software Company http://www.oenolog.net/who.htm
> 
> "And I, which was two fooles, do so grow three;
> Who are a little wise, the best fooles bee."
> 
> from "The Triple Foole" by John Donne (1572-1631) 
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com 
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-> revolution
> 



From alex at mindlube.com  Sat Feb  7 15:03:52 2004
From: alex at mindlube.com (Alex Rice)
Date: Sat, 7 Feb 2004 13:03:52 -0700
Subject: Compression and Decompression of multiple files
In-Reply-To: <BC4A7C13.3CDDE%ambassador@fourthworld.com>
References: <BC4A7C13.3CDDE%ambassador@fourthworld.com>
Message-ID: <C0269076-59A8-11D8-AC75-000393C4760A@mindlube.com>


On Feb 7, 2004, at 12:27 PM, Richard Gaskin wrote:

> Tar's pretty good: it uses gzip at the core.

I know nothing about the tar file format internals, but when you see a 
.tar.gz file or .tgz file, that is a tar file with gzip run on it 
afterwards. So I assume the tar format itself doesn't do any 
compression?

--
Alex Rice | Mindlube Software | http://mindlube.com


From kkaufman at snet.net  Sat Feb  7 15:13:14 2004
From: kkaufman at snet.net (Kurt Kaufman)
Date: Sat, 7 Feb 2004 15:13:14 -0500
Subject: The Value of Rev Stacks One Never Sells
Message-ID: <0F4B3253-59AA-11D8-940D-0003937052EC@snet.net>

Rob Cozens wrote:

"...So don't overlook how Revolution can work for you in-house as you 
use
it to develop the products that pay the rent."


Here is an example of an application built entirely for my own needs:
I recently bought a digital camera capable of creating short video 
clips. Unfortunately, many short clips means many double-clicks on file 
icons, or many trips to the File menu within the Player application.  I 
could not find an application that would play these clips without first 
setting up a "playlist", so I wrote that application myself:
http://www.shopperturnpike.com/usefulsoftware/cliplinkviewer.html

Friends and family asked for it so I eventually made it available.

-KK


From dsc at swcp.com  Sat Feb  7 15:18:07 2004
From: dsc at swcp.com (Dar Scott)
Date: Sat, 7 Feb 2004 13:18:07 -0700
Subject: Tagging certain objects with contact, copyright, etc
In-Reply-To: <BC4A8086.3CDE8%ambassador@fourthworld.com>
Message-ID: <BDC327EA-59AA-11D8-9B4B-000A9567A3E6@swcp.com>


On Saturday, February 7, 2004, at 12:46 PM, Richard Gaskin wrote:

> I shudder at the thought, but is it worthwhile to arrive at a set of
> conventions for naming common metadata properties?  It would likely be 
> a
> long and tedious discussion, but we might have greater 
> interoperability of
> components if we did.

I was looking to see if there was already something out there, some 
tradition the old-timers might know about.  Or maybe something somebody 
has already made up.

If what I use either matches common practice or common practice happens 
to follow what I do, I benefit for lots of reasons.  One might be that 
it increases the chance that the IDE might become smart along this line.


> I'm think of things like version, copyright, publication date, and for
> libraries a list of exposed commands and functions, possibly with
> descriptions like AppleScript.  As Rev grows there will be greater
> opportunities for commercial libraries, so having a common way for 
> other
> components to know what's there would allow a script to be locked yet 
> still
> be useful (a true black box).

There are lots of directions for libraries.  Issues might include named 
interfaces vs command list.  There is also the other direction 
concerning the required libraries.

That is one of the reasons my question was directed to a few simple 
things that would be common among objects.

Also, folks might join a bandwagon in a few simple tags but might 
flinch at an elaborate library description.

Even so, it might be possible to start out with a simple set, and then 
for libraries add a small set and then a more elaborate set.  Folks who 
want to participate may at any level.  Sets that turn out to have 
little use or are too much trouble will wither away.  Maybe it would be 
nice to refer to these by name, perhaps formally.

I got to this point because of my interest in custom controls.  The 
same kinds of issues may apply in common practice there.

Dar Scott




From jperryl at ecs.fullerton.edu  Sat Feb  7 15:37:51 2004
From: jperryl at ecs.fullerton.edu (Judy Perry)
Date: Sat, 7 Feb 2004 12:37:51 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Andy's comments and positioning...
In-Reply-To: <00966338-5992-11D8-9F4B-0030656FB5D4@danshafer.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.4.33.0402071207050.29482-100000@titan.ecs.fullerton.edu>

Dan,

I'm gonna snip stuff I'm not going to reply to.  I'll start off by saying
that I'm no programmer at all.  I'm an educator.  I just bought your book
(okay, so that part's off-topic).

> So to me, you build interest and market momentum for a new programming
> tool by tapping into two markets: education and hobbyists. Both have
> the potential to become professionals. And both are larger than the
> total market of professional programmers *who are willing to consider a
> new tool*. That audience, as many companies have found out the hard
> way, is much smaller than it appears.

--Amen!

> That said, I also tired quickly as I did that study for Intel of
> educational institutions and educators who (not universally but often
> enough to come to my attention): (a) demanded free or low-cost stuff
> even though they recommend textbooks that cost hundreds of dollars,
> some of which the recommending profs wrote; (b) garnered substantial
> government grants whose proceeds could have been put to use in buying
> stuff for students rather than paying assistants and buying travel &
> entertainment to attend conferences; (c) demanded extensive tech
> support; (d) in general, acted as if the world owed them a living. I
> saw a lot of that. A lot.

True enough in most circumstances, I suspect...  I told my students not to
buy the textbook and instead buy Rev.  I get no grants, attend no
conferences, have no student assistants and try not to bother people too
much.

But part of the reason why what you've said about educators (and
probably alot of them in higher ed) is likely true is that they don't know
diddly-squat about computers.  What's worse is that they don't want to
know. As I keep hearing, "it's just a tool, like any other tool.  I don't
need to know mechanics to drive my car so why should I know about hardware
and software to implement computers in education?"  The people saying
these things have Ph.D.'s in instructional design and technology.

I know this because I'm currently finishing up my master's in
instructional design and technology.  Let me  start by about telling you
about some of my instructors.  The first one is given to making grandiose
claims about how the real digeratii all know that VBA stands for "Visual
Basic Analogue" and that Hypercard was "a cheap rip-off of Visual Basic".
He doesn't know what metadata is.  He thinks that the California
department of motor vehicles page is an outstanding example of webpage
design (http://www.dmv.ca.gov/dmv.htm -- okay, so it doesn't quite merit
an award on 'webpages that suck', but I think it's simply hideous
looking).  And he thinks he's a techie.  And he's so glaringly not.

The program's coordinator thinks that Microsoft FrontPage is (a) a
professional web development tool and (b) that it's cross-platform, and,
finally, (c) when I tell her it's not, she all but calls me a liar.

Our web developer instructor last term apparently doesn't grasp the fact
that not all web browsers are equally javascript compliant, and so
javascripts that ran in IE and Netscape but not in Safari were
automatically dismissed.  He also neglected to tell the class that all
these little asp things he was teaching us to do in FrontPage won't work
on all servers.  But at least we know that the proper document extension
for an asp webpage is asp (actual final exam question).

That's about all we've learned about actually using technology itself.
Instead, we've spent countless hours talking about what it feels like to
be a tree that feels bias (actual textbook example) and so on..

We'd have a better chance if credential-granting institutions required
actual computer literacy and authoring classes instead of one more class
on why girls can't finish tasks and need more virtual makeover software to
turn them into computer scientists (another actual example).  Their new
big thing is Microsoft Producer.

This is the problem.  After going through the trial-by-death of making two
projects in Director and having received ZERO instruction on how to use
it, these students-cum-teachers hate hate HATE authoring programs and
revert back to the comfort zone of using PowerPoint and Producer.  And
they feel pretty good about this because, as two of our instructors
actually published in a book, it's certainly an improvement over the
morning PA system's daily announcements' implementation of multimedia in
the classroom...

Pass the tagamet... :(

Judy


From ambassador at fourthworld.com  Sat Feb  7 15:37:16 2004
From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin)
Date: Sat, 07 Feb 2004 12:37:16 -0800
Subject: Compression and Decompression of multiple files
In-Reply-To: <C0269076-59A8-11D8-AC75-000393C4760A@mindlube.com>
Message-ID: <BC4A8C7B.3CDF9%ambassador@fourthworld.com>

Alex Rice wrote:

> 
> On Feb 7, 2004, at 12:27 PM, Richard Gaskin wrote:
> 
>> Tar's pretty good: it uses gzip at the core.
> 
> I know nothing about the tar file format internals, but when you see a
> .tar.gz file or .tgz file, that is a tar file with gzip run on it
> afterwards. So I assume the tar format itself doesn't do any
> compression?

Correct, I was thinking of tgz, which seems the most common usage.

-- 
 Richard Gaskin 
 Fourth World Media Corporation
 Developer of WebMerge: Publish any database on any Web site
 ___________________________________________________________
 Ambassador at FourthWorld.com       http://www.FourthWorld.com


From dsc at swcp.com  Sat Feb  7 15:38:42 2004
From: dsc at swcp.com (Dar Scott)
Date: Sat, 7 Feb 2004 13:38:42 -0700
Subject: The Bitstream VERA font, the first truely crossplatform solution
In-Reply-To: <541D517A-5979-11D8-A36D-000A95C45C8C@princeton.edu>
Message-ID: <9E0E5732-59AD-11D8-9B4B-000A9567A3E6@swcp.com>


On Saturday, February 7, 2004, at 07:24 AM, Toma Tasovac wrote:

> the fonts HAVE been released, you were just looking at the wrong place
>
> http://www.gnome.org/fonts/
>
> On Feb 7, 2004, at 3:08 PM, Ian Wood wrote:
>
>> It looks very readable, but note the phrase 'will be released'.

I am concerned about any product in which the producers are confused 
about whether it is released or not.

One font that has caught my eye over of the past year or two is 
Everson.  It is a fixed pitch full non-CJK unicode font.  It is not 
free.  It is available for Windows and OS X.  Maybe RunRev can $obtain$ 
this and include with studio and enterprise a 
resale-as-part-of-made/with/Revolution-products license for them.  
Maybe RunRev can $motivate$ the designer to extend these to other 
platforms.  This can work as a great background unicode font.  I like 
the idea of a font that has Greek Extended, Phonetic Extended and 
Control Pictures all in the same font.

I have no idea how Everson will work for multi-platform applications; 
maybe the same problems will be there.

I haven't tried Everson Mono Unicode, yet.

Dar Scott


From jhurley at infostations.com  Sat Feb  7 15:41:26 2004
From: jhurley at infostations.com (Jim Hurley)
Date: Sat, 7 Feb 2004 12:41:26 -0800
Subject: Puzzled about stack size
In-Reply-To: <20040207192720.6F4D39303CA@mail.runrev.com>
References: <20040207192720.6F4D39303CA@mail.runrev.com>
Message-ID: <a05100305bc4afbaeaafd@[66.81.137.137]>

>
>Message: 5
>Date: Sat, 7 Feb 2004 10:12:07 -0700
>From: Rob Cozens <rcozens at pon.net>
>Subject: Re: Puzzled about stack size
>To: How to use Revolution <use-revolution at lists.runrev.com>
>Message-ID: <a05100309bc4aca37f629@[66.52.165.55]>
>Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed"
>
>>I have many stacks with more controls, longer scripts, a few
>>graphics, and images. Yet they are a fraction of the size of this
>>one DB stack. What could be eating up  all this space?
>
>Hi Jim,
>
>No answers, but some thoughts:
>
>* Does the db stack contain externals?
>
>* Does it incorporate a large image or clip?
>
>* Does it incorporate a small image that accidentally had its rect reset?
>
>* Have you opened the stack in the Application Browser and checked
>the list of controls on each card...including the size of their
>scripts?
>
>* If you open & close the stack without adding anything to it, does
>stack size remain static or grow?
>
>If none of that helps, is it feasible to open the stack, delete a
>card or group, close the stack, check stack size, and repeat the
>process until you see a dramatic change in stack size?  Then you
>could go back to the card or group you deleted and repeat the process
>deleting one control at a time.  It's tedious, I know, but it should
>isolate the source of the problem.  Perhaps you could write a script
>that would automate the process?
>--
>
>Rob Cozens
>CCW, Serendipity Software Company
>http://www.oenolog.net/who.htm


Rob,

Following your suggestion. I deleted one field, a table field that 
showed empty. The file size dropped from 6 megs to 144 K. (By the 
way, is there a way to get the file size from within RR?)

I restored the stack to "saved". In the message box I tried:

    put the number of lines in field "theField"

The result was zero.

I looked in the property  inspector for the field. The "contents" 
showed empty. I then scrolled down to
"table." There was a long pause and eventually all the data 
reappeared. In the messages box the number of lines was now 13,234.

I selected the field and press delete. The field showed empty--again. 
I scrolled down to "table" in the property inspector again and, 
again, after a long pause, the data was resurrected.

Strange things are happening in table fields. This same thing happens 
even for small amounts of data.

Jim

From ambassador at fourthworld.com  Sat Feb  7 15:43:22 2004
From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin)
Date: Sat, 07 Feb 2004 12:43:22 -0800
Subject: Andy's comments and positioning...
In-Reply-To: <Pine.GSO.4.33.0402071207050.29482-100000@titan.ecs.fullerton.edu>
Message-ID: <BC4A8DE9.3CDFC%ambassador@fourthworld.com>

Judy Perry wrote:

> But part of the reason why what you've said about educators (and
> probably alot of them in higher ed) is likely true is that they don't know
> diddly-squat about computers.  What's worse is that they don't want to
> know. As I keep hearing, "it's just a tool, like any other tool.  I don't
> need to know mechanics to drive my car so why should I know about hardware
> and software to implement computers in education?"  The people saying
> these things have Ph.D.'s in instructional design and technology.

Some of the toughest tech support I do is for HyperRESEARCH, popular among
academic sociology researchers.  I speak with a lot of doctorates and
candidates, and while they're all great sociology researchers their
computing experience varies broadly.  :)

...
> This is the problem.  After going through the trial-by-death of making two
> projects in Director and having received ZERO instruction on how to use
> it, these students-cum-teachers hate hate HATE authoring programs and
> revert back to the comfort zone of using PowerPoint and Producer.

Excatly.   There are great opportunities in education markets, but perhaps
few for scripting products.

-- 
 Richard Gaskin 
 Fourth World Media Corporation
 ___________________________________________________________
 Ambassador at FourthWorld.com       http://www.FourthWorld.com


From ambassador at fourthworld.com  Sat Feb  7 15:44:56 2004
From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin)
Date: Sat, 07 Feb 2004 12:44:56 -0800
Subject: Puzzled about stack size
In-Reply-To: <a05100305bc4afbaeaafd@[66.81.137.137]>
Message-ID: <BC4A8E47.3CE00%ambassador@fourthworld.com>

Jim Hurley wrote:

> Following your suggestion. I deleted one field, a table field that
> showed empty. The file size dropped from 6 megs to 144 K. (By the
> way, is there a way to get the file size from within RR?)
> 
> I restored the stack to "saved". In the message box I tried:
> 
> put the number of lines in field "theField"
> 
> The result was zero.
> 
> I looked in the property  inspector for the field. The "contents"
> showed empty. I then scrolled down to
> "table." There was a long pause and eventually all the data
> reappeared. In the messages box the number of lines was now 13,234.
> 
> I selected the field and press delete. The field showed empty--again.
> I scrolled down to "table" in the property inspector again and,
> again, after a long pause, the data was resurrected.
> 
> Strange things are happening in table fields. This same thing happens
> even for small amounts of data.

When the visible eludes, check the less visible:  what's in the custom
property sets for those objects?

-- 
 Richard Gaskin 
 Fourth World Media Corporation
 ___________________________________________________________
 Ambassador at FourthWorld.com       http://www.FourthWorld.com


From jperryl at ecs.fullerton.edu  Sat Feb  7 15:49:45 2004
From: jperryl at ecs.fullerton.edu (Judy Perry)
Date: Sat, 7 Feb 2004 12:49:45 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Andy's comments and positioning...
In-Reply-To: <BC4A8DE9.3CDFC%ambassador@fourthworld.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.4.33.0402071246530.29482-100000@titan.ecs.fullerton.edu>

On Sat, 7 Feb 2004, Richard Gaskin wrote:

> Excatly.   There are great opportunities in education markets, but perhaps
> few for scripting products.

--Still, now that my tagamet's starting to dissolve, I still believe there
is hope for Rev in education.  One byproduct of this dismal degree program
was becoming acquainted with a fellow student who is a technology teacher
at a local high school.

He invited me to be on his program advisory committee and wants to look
about possibly adopting Rev over Flash for an intro. multimedia course...
There is a Rev list member who I think has adopted it for his teacher
training program...  But it will be an uphill battle...

Judy


From lists at mangomultimedia.com  Sat Feb  7 15:59:30 2004
From: lists at mangomultimedia.com (Trevor DeVore)
Date: Sat, 7 Feb 2004 13:59:30 -0700
Subject: Windows Application Icon
In-Reply-To: <8A641F6E-5990-11D8-9B4B-000A9567A3E6@swcp.com>
References: <8A641F6E-5990-11D8-9B4B-000A9567A3E6@swcp.com>
Message-ID: <85D134B1-59B0-11D8-8059-000A956C462A@mangomultimedia.com>

On Feb 7, 2004, at 10:10 AM, Dar Scott wrote:
>
> On Saturday, February 7, 2004, at 09:45 AM, Trevor DeVore wrote:
>
>> Another program that I use now is ResourceTuner from Heaven Tools 
>> <http://heaventools.com/>.  This lets you change icons (not create 
>> them like Microangelo) and it lets you change information about the 
>> executable properties.  I always get rid of the private build string 
>> as well as change the build number of the exe from Revolutions build 
>> number to my applications build number.  This might not be necessary 
>> with the new Distribution Builder that Monte did but if you 
>> distributing your application soon Resource Tuner is available now 
>> and only $34.
>
> The description at that page doesn't mention fonts, which have come up 
> on another thread.  Would an embedded font be attached as a resource?  
> Is that sufficient to make the fonts available to the application?

In the Resource Tuner help file it lists fonts under the Resource 
section but doesn't say anything much about it.  In Resource Tuner you 
can edit or remove an existing resource but it doesn't seem that you 
can add one.   Maybe PE Explorer (Resource Tuner's big brother) does 
that?

-- 
Trevor DeVore
Blue Mango Multimedia
trevor at mangomultimedia.com


From ambassador at fourthworld.com  Sat Feb  7 16:11:57 2004
From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin)
Date: Sat, 07 Feb 2004 13:11:57 -0800
Subject: Andy's comments and positioning...
In-Reply-To: <Pine.GSO.4.33.0402071246530.29482-100000@titan.ecs.fullerton.edu>
Message-ID: <BC4A949D.3CE07%ambassador@fourthworld.com>

Judy Perry wrote:

> On Sat, 7 Feb 2004, Richard Gaskin wrote:
> 
>> Excatly.   There are great opportunities in education markets, but perhaps
>> few for scripting products.
> 
> --Still, now that my tagamet's starting to dissolve, I still believe there
> is hope for Rev in education.  One byproduct of this dismal degree program
> was becoming acquainted with a fellow student who is a technology teacher
> at a local high school.
> 
> He invited me to be on his program advisory committee and wants to look
> about possibly adopting Rev over Flash for an intro. multimedia course...
> There is a Rev list member who I think has adopted it for his teacher
> training program...  But it will be an uphill battle...

Maybe not too uphill -- just consider the number of educators on this list.
I feel there's definitely a place, perhaps a strong one, for Rev in
education.

But it will take some research and development before Rev is able to
precisely nail the value proposition for the broader education market as
it's been doing for developers.

That's really my only point here:  it may well be worthwhile doing the long
research process needed to develop and market effectively for educators, but
not if it means losing sight of the past and current focus on professional
quality development which has been the product's award-winning strength thus
far (not to mention the source of most of the revenue and reputation that
would make such exploration into other markets possible).

-- 
 Richard Gaskin 
 Fourth World Media Corporation
 ___________________________________________________________
 Ambassador at FourthWorld.com       http://www.FourthWorld.com


From livfoss at blueyonder.co.uk  Fri Feb  6 08:24:43 2004
From: livfoss at blueyonder.co.uk (Graham Samuel)
Date: Fri, 06 Feb 2004 14:24:43 +0100
Subject: The new DB
Message-ID: <6.0.1.1.2.20040206141850.01c53010@pop3.blueyonder.co.uk>

On Fri, 6 Feb 2004 18:01:49 +1030, "Monte Goulding" 
<monte at sweattechnologies.com> wrote:

[...]
  I just tested with the new DB and it's
>working fine but that doesn't mean it wasn't an issue with the old one.

Monte, what is the status of the new DB - is it released? If not, when do 
you think it will be? Is it waiting for RR 2.1.3, or what? Nothing visible 
that I can see on the RR website (which OT is clearly overdue for an update).

Just curious

Graham

PS Maybe the new version could have a more appropriate name, like 
'Application Builder' for example. But maybe I'm the only one who finds 
'Distribution Builder' pretty much devoid of meaning.


---------------------------------------------------
Graham Samuel / The Living Fossil Co. / UK & France  



From dsc at swcp.com  Sat Feb  7 16:27:41 2004
From: dsc at swcp.com (Dar Scott)
Date: Sat, 7 Feb 2004 14:27:41 -0700
Subject: The new DB
In-Reply-To: <6.0.1.1.2.20040206141850.01c53010@pop3.blueyonder.co.uk>
Message-ID: <7605FF5C-59B4-11D8-9B4B-000A9567A3E6@swcp.com>


On Friday, February 6, 2004, at 06:24 AM, Graham Samuel wrote:

> PS Maybe the new version could have a more appropriate name, like 
> 'Application Builder' for example.

I like "Application Builder".  We may be late in saying so for the 
upcoming versions.

Dar Scott


From rcozens at pon.net  Sat Feb  7 15:27:14 2004
From: rcozens at pon.net (Rob Cozens)
Date: Sat, 7 Feb 2004 13:27:14 -0700
Subject: Compression and Decompression of multiple files
In-Reply-To: <BC4A80CD.3CDED%ambassador@fourthworld.com>
References: <BC4A80CD.3CDED%ambassador@fourthworld.com>
Message-ID: <a05100303bc4af85acce0@[66.52.165.20]>

>Sure, but if we can convince someone to do it in Tar we get the same result
>with much broader possible uses.

Yes, I see that, Richard.

My goal was not a universal archiver to compete with StuffIt & WindZip:

As I set up serendipity_downloader.htm, I asked myself, "will there 
come a time in the evolution of Revolution that I can place one 
download on my ftp site that can be decompressed by any Revolutionist 
on any platform?"

If someone doesn't come up with something better in the meantime, 
I'll get around to it.  At this point, my inclination is to look 
further into Alex's concept of a stack as a wrapper for an archive.
-- 

Rob Cozens
CCW, Serendipity Software Company
http://www.oenolog.net/who.htm

"And I, which was two fooles, do so grow three;
Who are a little wise, the best fooles bee."

from "The Triple Foole" by John Donne (1572-1631)

From rcozens at pon.net  Sat Feb  7 15:30:53 2004
From: rcozens at pon.net (Rob Cozens)
Date: Sat, 7 Feb 2004 13:30:53 -0700
Subject: Compression and Decompression of multiple files
In-Reply-To: <BC4A80F4.3CDEE%ambassador@fourthworld.com>
References: <BC4A80F4.3CDEE%ambassador@fourthworld.com>
Message-ID: <a05100304bc4afab85b63@[66.52.165.20]>

>  > Is TAR supported on all Revolution platforms?
>
>TAR is everywhere.

But assuming Alex is correct, and my experience seems to confirm it, 
TAR by itself provides no compression/decompression.

So is there one utility currently available for all Rev platforms to 
build and decompress compressed TAR archives?
-- 

Rob Cozens
CCW, Serendipity Software Company
http://www.oenolog.net/who.htm

"And I, which was two fooles, do so grow three;
Who are a little wise, the best fooles bee."

from "The Triple Foole" by John Donne (1572-1631)

From rcozens at pon.net  Sat Feb  7 15:32:39 2004
From: rcozens at pon.net (Rob Cozens)
Date: Sat, 7 Feb 2004 13:32:39 -0700
Subject: Tagging certain objects with contact, copyright, etc
In-Reply-To: <F84F2D7D-59A6-11D8-9B4B-000A9567A3E6@swcp.com>
References: <F84F2D7D-59A6-11D8-9B4B-000A9567A3E6@swcp.com>
Message-ID: <a05100305bc4afba492c5@[66.52.165.20]>

>Not all stacks are applications.  Many are libraries.

Libraries can have About menus.
-- 

Rob Cozens
CCW, Serendipity Software Company
http://www.oenolog.net/who.htm

"And I, which was two fooles, do so grow three;
Who are a little wise, the best fooles bee."

from "The Triple Foole" by John Donne (1572-1631)

From rcozens at pon.net  Sat Feb  7 15:35:56 2004
From: rcozens at pon.net (Rob Cozens)
Date: Sat, 7 Feb 2004 13:35:56 -0700
Subject: Manipulating Old Dates
In-Reply-To: <008a01c3edb4$b190d120$6601a8c0@LightningFlash>
References: <008a01c3edb4$b190d120$6601a8c0@LightningFlash>
Message-ID: <a05100306bc4afc3fb74e@[66.52.165.20]>

>This means that
>as long as someone is 99 years old or less, we're OK. It's not a perfect
>solution, but it's working so far.

Ken,

Given the limitations of X-Talks date support, would you have done it 
differently if Transcript supported Julian date manipulation?
-- 

Rob Cozens
CCW, Serendipity Software Company
http://www.oenolog.net/who.htm

"And I, which was two fooles, do so grow three;
Who are a little wise, the best fooles bee."

from "The Triple Foole" by John Donne (1572-1631)

From rcozens at pon.net  Sat Feb  7 15:37:36 2004
From: rcozens at pon.net (Rob Cozens)
Date: Sat, 7 Feb 2004 13:37:36 -0700
Subject: The Value of Rev Stacks One Never Sells
In-Reply-To: <0F4B3253-59AA-11D8-940D-0003937052EC@snet.net>
References: <0F4B3253-59AA-11D8-940D-0003937052EC@snet.net>
Message-ID: <a05100307bc4afce2dd7c@[66.52.165.20]>

>I could not find an application that would play these clips without 
>first setting up a "playlist", so I wrote that application myself:
>http://www.shopperturnpike.com/usefulsoftware/cliplinkviewer.html
>
>Friends and family asked for it so I eventually made it available.

Bravo, Kurt!
-- 

Rob Cozens
CCW, Serendipity Software Company
http://www.oenolog.net/who.htm

"And I, which was two fooles, do so grow three;
Who are a little wise, the best fooles bee."

from "The Triple Foole" by John Donne (1572-1631)

From rcozens at pon.net  Sat Feb  7 15:44:37 2004
From: rcozens at pon.net (Rob Cozens)
Date: Sat, 7 Feb 2004 13:44:37 -0700
Subject: Puzzled about stack size
In-Reply-To: <a05100305bc4afbaeaafd@[66.81.137.137]>
References: <20040207192720.6F4D39303CA@mail.runrev.com>
 <a05100305bc4afbaeaafd@[66.81.137.137]>
Message-ID: <a05100308bc4afe4d32c2@[66.52.165.20]>

>Strange things are happening in table fields.

I'm afraid I can only get you this far, Jim.

I know nothing about table fields.  Are these linked to a database, 
by any chance?
-- 

Rob Cozens
CCW, Serendipity Software Company
http://www.oenolog.net/who.htm

"And I, which was two fooles, do so grow three;
Who are a little wise, the best fooles bee."

from "The Triple Foole" by John Donne (1572-1631)

From chrism at lumin.us  Sat Feb  7 16:52:19 2004
From: chrism at lumin.us (Christopher Mitchell)
Date: Sat, 7 Feb 2004 15:52:19 -0600
Subject: command-2 (previous) and command-3 (next), jumping by 2
In-Reply-To: <BC4AD6AE.41DFB%valetia@mac.com>
References: <BC4AD6AE.41DFB%valetia@mac.com>
Message-ID: <E6B0E67F-59B7-11D8-99B5-000393B64EDC@lumin.us>

Ahoy,

So this seems very odd to me, and disruptive - is it then a known bug 
on bugzilla?

Yours,
Chris
On Feb 7, 2004, at 1:53 AM, valetia at mac.com wrote:

> Yup, happening over here too. :)
>
> Valetia


From dsc at swcp.com  Sat Feb  7 16:55:59 2004
From: dsc at swcp.com (Dar Scott)
Date: Sat, 7 Feb 2004 14:55:59 -0700
Subject: Tagging certain objects with contact, copyright, etc
In-Reply-To: <a05100305bc4afba492c5@[66.52.165.20]>
Message-ID: <6A3062B0-59B8-11D8-9B4B-000A9567A3E6@swcp.com>


On Saturday, February 7, 2004, at 01:32 PM, Rob Cozens wrote:

>> Not all stacks are applications.  Many are libraries.
>
> Libraries can have About menus.

I didn't think about this.

I guess they can have documentation and a demo, too.  Maybe a test 
suite.

They might have a control of some standard size that con be put on an 
application about window.

I wonder how much should go in a library.

I sometimes go the other direction and deliver a segment of script.

Dar Scott


From herz at ucsd.edu  Sat Feb  7 17:22:33 2004
From: herz at ucsd.edu (Richard K. Herz)
Date: Sat, 7 Feb 2004 14:22:33 -0800
Subject: Dan Shafer's comments on positioning...
References: <20040207203928.29E9293034F@mail.runrev.com>
Message-ID: <001801c3edc8$e29e8eb0$6401a8c0@RKHpc2>

Dan Shafer wrote:

> That said, I also tired quickly as I did that study for Intel of
> educational institutions and educators who (not universally but often
> enough to come to my attention): (a) demanded free or low-cost stuff
> even though they recommend textbooks that cost hundreds of dollars,
> some of which the recommending profs wrote; (b) garnered substantial

I'll speak here about getting profs to use software in "regular"
non-programming courses.  Even today there's a big hurdle to get profs
to use software in courses.  It's easy for a prof to fill out the textbook
order
form the bookstore sends over each term, let students provide all money
involved, then assign them to work the odd-numbered problems at the end of
chapters.  It takes a lot more energy, and is something many profs don't
know how to start doing, to get software budgeted and licensed, installed in
a lab, and then tested to make sure everything works.

Rich Herz



From m.mackenzie at sasktel.net  Sat Feb  7 17:45:56 2004
From: m.mackenzie at sasktel.net (Mark MacKenzie)
Date: Sat, 07 Feb 2004 16:45:56 -0600
Subject: How to go to newly cloned card?
In-Reply-To: <7605FF5C-59B4-11D8-9B4B-000A9567A3E6@swcp.com>
References: <7605FF5C-59B4-11D8-9B4B-000A9567A3E6@swcp.com>
Message-ID: <40256AA4.30308@sasktel.net>

I have been playing with this it feels like all day and simply cannot 
see my way through it.

Aaaaaarrrrgh.

My most recent iteration is:

on mouseUp
  if there is a card "Empty Card" of this stack
  then
    go card "Empty Card"
  end if
  if there is no card "Empty Card" of this stack
  then
    clone card "BulletWeightsMasterCard" of this stack
    set the name of it to "Empty Card"
    go card "Empty Card" of this stack
  end if
end mouseUp

For several iterations now I can successsfully create a cloned card of 
the target card BUT I cannot navigate to it to allow the user to begin 
filling in the information.  It has got to be something simple I am 
missing but I am missing it and so must call upon the list to help me in 
my ignorance and frustration. 

Thank you in advance.

Mark MacKenzie



From rcozens at pon.net  Sat Feb  7 17:07:49 2004
From: rcozens at pon.net (Rob Cozens)
Date: Sat, 7 Feb 2004 15:07:49 -0700
Subject: Tagging certain objects with contact, copyright, etc
In-Reply-To: <6A3062B0-59B8-11D8-9B4B-000A9567A3E6@swcp.com>
References: <6A3062B0-59B8-11D8-9B4B-000A9567A3E6@swcp.com>
Message-ID: <a05100300bc4b0d3f9dca@[66.52.165.20]>

>>Libraries can have About menus.
>
>I didn't think about this.
>
>I guess they can have documentation and a demo, too.  Maybe a test suite.
>
>They might have a control of some standard size that con be put on 
>an application about window.
>
>I wonder how much should go in a library.

I don't think there is a hard & fast rule to apply, Dar.  Serendipity 
Library's bookshelf shows six categories of handlers.  Could they 
exist in separate library stacks?...Certainly.

If some of the resources in Serendipity Library were free & open 
source and others were "pay for view", would I put them in one 
library?...Obviously not.

Would Serendipity Library look different if it were designed as a 
library for a specific standalone than a library of generic 
Transcript handlers & other resources?...Possibly.

As to the About window control, if you are providing a tool for 
others to use, try to keep it as flexible as possible.  I present 
About info in different ways in different stacks, from the 
traditional About field + RR logo to moving banner text + logo in the 
prompt field.

Engage the user at every sensory level possible, sez I.   :{`)

On a personal level, Dar, while I don't suggest for a minute that my 
answers are the best answers for everyone, you will find my answers 
to many of your questions exemplified somewhere in the files that 
comprise Serendipity Library. 
<http://www.oenolog.net/ftp/serendipity_downloader.htm>.
-- 

Rob Cozens
CCW, Serendipity Software Company
http://www.oenolog.net/who.htm

"And I, which was two fooles, do so grow three;
Who are a little wise, the best fooles bee."

from "The Triple Foole" by John Donne (1572-1631)

From doug at webcrossing.com  Sat Feb  7 18:08:11 2004
From: doug at webcrossing.com (Doug Lerner)
Date: Sun, 08 Feb 2004 08:08:11 +0900
Subject: Puzzled about stack size
In-Reply-To: <a05100302bc4ad08887d2@[66.81.137.137]>
Message-ID: <BC4B9EEB.25D2E%doug@webcrossing.com>

This happened to me a couple of weeks ago. A stack that was about 150K
suddenly became 3MB. It turned out that I was saving all my logging data in
a particular field and it was just growing and growing. When I cleared out
that field the saved stack size returned to just 150K.

doug

On 2/8/04 2:40 AM, "Jim Hurley" <jhurley at infostations.com> wrote:

> I have a stack which has one card, about 25 controls and about 800
> lines of script, no graphics, and no images. Pretty much a bare bones
> stack. It is a utility stack I use for working on database materials.
> 
> In the interest of saving space in the file, I deleted the text from
> all fields, yet the stack file shows about 6 megabytes!
> 
> I created a new stack with the same number of controls and inserted
> 800 lines of text in one of the fields. The file is about 24 K.
> 
> Now the db stack originally contained massive amounts of county
> election data. But all of that is gone now, and yet the stack is
> still 6 megs.
> 
> I know that RR does not have a separate utility to compact stack as
> in the old HC days; that is supposedly done with each save (save from
> the menu bar.)
> 
> I have many stacks with more controls, longer scripts, a few
> graphics, and images. Yet they are a fraction of the size of this one
> DB stack. What could be eating up  all this space?
> 
> Jim
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution


From rcozens at pon.net  Sat Feb  7 17:17:25 2004
From: rcozens at pon.net (Rob Cozens)
Date: Sat, 7 Feb 2004 15:17:25 -0700
Subject: How to go to newly cloned card?
In-Reply-To: <40256AA4.30308@sasktel.net>
References: <7605FF5C-59B4-11D8-9B4B-000A9567A3E6@swcp.com>
 <40256AA4.30308@sasktel.net>
Message-ID: <a05100301bc4b1305f8ee@[66.52.165.196]>

>For several iterations now I can successsfully create a cloned card 
>of the target card BUT I cannot navigate to it to allow the user to 
>begin filling in the information.  It has got to be something simple 
>I am missing but I am missing it and so must call upon the list to 
>help me in my ignorance and frustration.

Couple of thoughts, Mark.

First,

	set the name of it to "Empty Card"

appears to be invalid syntax: "the name of it" should perhaps be "the 
name of this card"

Second, Rev dictionary says re the clone command, "If the object is a 
card, the copy becomes the current card."; so you don't need to go to 
the card: you are on it once you've cloned it.

Hope this helps.
-- 

Rob Cozens
CCW, Serendipity Software Company
http://www.oenolog.net/who.htm

"And I, which was two fooles, do so grow three;
Who are a little wise, the best fooles bee."

from "The Triple Foole" by John Donne (1572-1631)

From jhurley at infostations.com  Sat Feb  7 18:19:54 2004
From: jhurley at infostations.com (Jim Hurley)
Date: Sat, 7 Feb 2004 15:19:54 -0800
Subject: Puzzled about stack size
In-Reply-To: <20040207214832.968519302D2@mail.runrev.com>
References: <20040207214832.968519302D2@mail.runrev.com>
Message-ID: <a05100307bc4b1fcb26f9@[66.81.137.137]>

>
>Message: 3
>Date: Sat, 07 Feb 2004 12:44:56 -0800
>From: Richard Gaskin <ambassador at fourthworld.com>
>Subject: Re: Puzzled about stack size
>To: How to use Revolution <use-revolution at lists.runrev.com>
>Message-ID: <BC4A8E47.3CE00%ambassador at fourthworld.com>
>Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
>
>Jim Hurley wrote:
>
>>  Following your suggestion. I deleted one field, a table field that
>>  showed empty. The file size dropped from 6 megs to 144 K. (By the
>>  way, is there a way to get the file size from within RR?)
>>
>>  I restored the stack to "saved". In the message box I tried:
>>
>>  put the number of lines in field "theField"
>>
>>  The result was zero.
>>
>>  I looked in the property  inspector for the field. The "contents"
>>  showed empty. I then scrolled down to
>>  "table." There was a long pause and eventually all the data
>>  reappeared. In the messages box the number of lines was now 13,234.
>>
>>  I selected the field and press delete. The field showed empty--again.
>>  I scrolled down to "table" in the property inspector again and,
>>  again, after a long pause, the data was resurrected.
>>
>>  Strange things are happening in table fields. This same thing happens
>  > even for small amounts of data.


Richard Gaskin wrote:

>When the visible eludes, check the less visible:  what's in the custom
>property sets for those objects?
>
>--
>  Richard Gaskin
>  Fourth World Media Corporation
>  ___________________________________________________________

Richard,

A reasonable assumption, but this was a very simple stack.

These table fields are my new Zen Koan. Very ephemeral.

Try this:

1) Create a stack with a single field.
2) Go to its property inspector and under "table" check the "table 
object" and "cell editing" boxes.
3) Put something in cells a1, a2, b1 and b2 (Excel notation.) Maybe 
just four letters, a,b,c,d.
4) In the message box type: put empty into field 1 -- As expected, 
the data disappears
5) Ah, but it's not gone. Go to the property inspector again and 
select "table".
6) Voila, the data returns.

It appears that table fields have a dual personality. (Mac OS 9, RR 2.1.2)

Jim

From rcozens at pon.net  Sat Feb  7 17:26:33 2004
From: rcozens at pon.net (Rob Cozens)
Date: Sat, 7 Feb 2004 15:26:33 -0700
Subject: Puzzled about stack size
In-Reply-To: <BC4B9EEB.25D2E%doug@webcrossing.com>
References: <BC4B9EEB.25D2E%doug@webcrossing.com>
Message-ID: <a05100302bc4b14e86a4d@[66.52.165.196]>

>This happened to me a couple of weeks ago. A stack that was about 150K
>suddenly became 3MB. It turned out that I was saving all my logging data in
>a particular field and it was just growing and growing. When I cleared out
>that field the saved stack size returned to just 150K.

Likewise in durability testing SDB: inspired by a conversation with 
Jacque Gay, I wrote an auto test handler that issues a random db 
command every two seconds and logs the command and the result in a 
field so there is an "audit trail" available for debugging.

Problem was (a) since I continually added to the audit trail but 
never deleted entries, the test had to fail at some point by 
exceeding max field size or max RAM available and (b) the failure was 
generating a "connection is dead" message.  So I kept looking through 
Jan's libIPC for "connection problems" that went away once the light 
dawned and I added logic to remove the oldest line upon adding the 
100th and subsequent lines.
-- 

Rob Cozens
CCW, Serendipity Software Company
http://www.oenolog.net/who.htm

"And I, which was two fooles, do so grow three;
Who are a little wise, the best fooles bee."

from "The Triple Foole" by John Donne (1572-1631)

From rcozens at pon.net  Sat Feb  7 17:31:45 2004
From: rcozens at pon.net (Rob Cozens)
Date: Sat, 7 Feb 2004 15:31:45 -0700
Subject: Puzzled about stack size
In-Reply-To: <a05100307bc4b1fcb26f9@[66.81.137.137]>
References: <20040207214832.968519302D2@mail.runrev.com>
 <a05100307bc4b1fcb26f9@[66.81.137.137]>
Message-ID: <a05100303bc4b170febc6@[66.52.165.196]>

>5) Ah, but it's not gone. Go to the property inspector again and 
>select "table".
>6) Voila, the data returns.

Is it still there if you close & reopen the stack at that point, Jim?

The AB's control list does not always seem to keep up with additions 
and deletions.  Often if I select a different card in the same stack 
(from the AB) and then reselect the original card, a deleted control 
will disappear or a newly added control will be recognized.
-- 

Rob Cozens
CCW, Serendipity Software Company
http://www.oenolog.net/who.htm

"And I, which was two fooles, do so grow three;
Who are a little wise, the best fooles bee."

from "The Triple Foole" by John Donne (1572-1631)

From pixelbird at interisland.net  Sat Feb  7 18:38:45 2004
From: pixelbird at interisland.net (Ken Norris)
Date: Sat, 07 Feb 2004 15:38:45 -0800
Subject: Manipulating Old Dates
In-Reply-To: <20040207203928.615EC930350@mail.runrev.com>
Message-ID: <BC4AB705.4D64%pixelbird@interisland.net>

on 2/7/04 12:39 PM, use-revolution-request at lists.runrev.com at
use-revolution-request at lists.runrev.com wrote:

> Date: Sat, 7 Feb 2004 13:57:45 -0600
> From: "Ken Ray" <kray at sonsothunder.com>
> Subject: RE: Manipulating Old Dates
> 
> Rob,
> 
> In the product I'm working on with a client right now, we keep track of
> birthdates. And the way we manage it is by setting the centuryCutoff to
> one less than the current year (so right now it's "03"). This means that
> as long as someone is 99 years old or less, we're OK. It's not a perfect
> solution, but it's working so far.
-------------
What do we do with _really_ old dates, like weather logs from California
missions 300 years ago?

Ideas?

Ken N.


From dsc at swcp.com  Sat Feb  7 19:08:48 2004
From: dsc at swcp.com (Dar Scott)
Date: Sat, 7 Feb 2004 17:08:48 -0700
Subject: Tagging certain objects with contact, copyright, etc
In-Reply-To: <a05100300bc4b0d3f9dca@[66.52.165.20]>
Message-ID: <F811B972-59CA-11D8-9B4B-000A9567A3E6@swcp.com>


On Saturday, February 7, 2004, at 03:07 PM, Rob Cozens wrote:

> As to the About window control, if you are providing a tool for others 
> to use, try to keep it as flexible as possible.  I present About info 
> in different ways in different stacks, from the traditional About 
> field + RR logo to moving banner text + logo in the prompt field.

Since a library would be used by developers and not end users except 
tinkering users, then it may not need much.  I would suppose some 
libraries are never opened, so such an about box might never get seen.

Dar


From monte at sweattechnologies.com  Sat Feb  7 19:22:27 2004
From: monte at sweattechnologies.com (Monte Goulding)
Date: Sun, 8 Feb 2004 10:52:27 +1030
Subject: The new DB
In-Reply-To: <6.0.1.1.2.20040206141850.01c53010@pop3.blueyonder.co.uk>
Message-ID: <FLEGJBMJADGKMCHIMFOHMEBAEAAA.monte@sweattechnologies.com>


> [...]
>   I just tested with the new DB and it's
> >working fine but that doesn't mean it wasn't an issue with the old one.
>
> Monte, what is the status of the new DB - is it released? If not, when do
> you think it will be? Is it waiting for RR 2.1.3, or what?
> Nothing visible
> that I can see on the RR website (which OT is clearly overdue for
> an update).

It is complete but not yet released.

> PS Maybe the new version could have a more appropriate name, like
> 'Application Builder' for example. But maybe I'm the only one who finds
> 'Distribution Builder' pretty much devoid of meaning.

The term "Standalone Application" will be replacing "Distribution".

Cheers

Monte


From m.mackenzie at sasktel.net  Sat Feb  7 19:36:34 2004
From: m.mackenzie at sasktel.net (Mark MacKenzie)
Date: Sat, 07 Feb 2004 18:36:34 -0600
Subject: How to go to newly cloned card?
In-Reply-To: <40256AA4.30308@sasktel.net>
References: <7605FF5C-59B4-11D8-9B4B-000A9567A3E6@swcp.com>
 <40256AA4.30308@sasktel.net>
Message-ID: <40258492.4080509@sasktel.net>

Okay, crazy thing.  After one more opening and closing of the stack set 
and RunRev the scripted button handler below works just fine whereas it 
hasn't been all day.

Go figure!

Mark

Mark MacKenzie wrote:

> I have been playing with this it feels like all day and simply cannot 
> see my way through it.
>
> Aaaaaarrrrgh.
>
> My most recent iteration is:
>
> on mouseUp
>  if there is a card "Empty Card" of this stack
>  then
>    go card "Empty Card"
>  end if
>  if there is no card "Empty Card" of this stack
>  then
>    clone card "BulletWeightsMasterCard" of this stack
>    set the name of it to "Empty Card"
>    go card "Empty Card" of this stack
>  end if
> end mouseUp
>
> For several iterations now I can successsfully create a cloned card of 
> the target card BUT I cannot navigate to it to allow the user to begin 
> filling in the information.  It has got to be something simple I am 
> missing but I am missing it and so must call upon the list to help me 
> in my ignorance and frustration.
> Thank you in advance.
>
> Mark MacKenzie
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>


From 3mcgrath at adelphia.net  Sat Feb  7 19:37:34 2004
From: 3mcgrath at adelphia.net (Thomas McGrath III)
Date: Sat, 7 Feb 2004 19:37:34 -0500
Subject: MY Great Big CD Project
Message-ID: <FC7EC04A-59CE-11D8-B742-000A95DA60FA@adelphia.net>

Well, I finished my instructive CD. I handed it over to the president 
and he has hired a Director company to put a 'fancy' front end on it. I 
don't really know how to take that.
The CD needed to present over 500 pre made slides in 14 chapters with 
over 20 pages and 75 links to different parts of the 500 slides and 
make it all make sense. The CD was not allowed to use Quicktime which 
made me do a lot of things the hard way. (But now the director guys are 
going to use flash and video).(Score one for Director) The CD needed to 
provide for a page to page type navigation AND to be able to jump 
around to specific points. The CD has 20 voiceovers on the front page 
of each chapter.

The presidents reaction was OK but he had some negatives as well. The 
director company actually turned down re-doing or re-creating some of 
the things I did in the CD due to time and difficulty.(Score one for me 
and REV) They said it would be too hard to try and do what I did and 
that they would be better served by putting a 'flash and dash' front 
end on my rev project.
NOW, if I was allowed to use quicktime I think things would have been 
different.
The director company thought the voiceovers were just fine.(Score one 
for me and REV)
They thought the navigation was fine. (Score one for me and REV)
The president did not like the navigation. (Take one away for me)

The CD is almost 500 Megabytes and works on 7 OS's. (I don't know how 
many it will still work on when they put the Flash in?)

SO, REV did a great Job and most liked it. The director guys knew how 
much work was in it and respected it even though they never heard of 
REV.

I believe that the lack of flashy tools for text and good text 
formating in REV held this CD back from being great. Multimedia was 
restricted by the client. But flash support would have overridden the 
problem of no quicktime.

I will consider this CD and the use of REV a success but I am hoping 
for a few enhancements to make multimedia work better with what people 
expect ie Flash and good text formatting.

Tom


Macintosh PowerBook G-4 OSX 10.3.1, OS 9.2.2, 1.25 GHz, 512MB RAM, Rev 
2.1.2


Advanced Media Group
Thomas J McGrath III	? 2003 ?	3mcgrath at adelphia.net
220 Drake Road, Bethel Park, PA 15102



From 3mcgrath at adelphia.net  Sat Feb  7 19:45:18 2004
From: 3mcgrath at adelphia.net (Thomas McGrath III)
Date: Sat, 7 Feb 2004 19:45:18 -0500
Subject: How to go to newly cloned card?
In-Reply-To: <40256AA4.30308@sasktel.net>
References: <7605FF5C-59B4-11D8-9B4B-000A9567A3E6@swcp.com>
	<40256AA4.30308@sasktel.net>
Message-ID: <110F2879-59D0-11D8-B742-000A95DA60FA@adelphia.net>


On Feb 7, 2004, at 5:45 PM, Mark MacKenzie wrote:

> My most recent iteration is:
>
> on mouseUp
>  if there is a card "Empty Card" of this stack
>  then
>    go card "Empty Card"
-- end if
-- if there is no card "Empty Card" of this stack
  -- then
else
>    clone card "BulletWeightsMasterCard" of this stack
>    set the name of it to "Empty Card"
    go card "Empty Card" of this stack in 30 milliseconds
>  end if
> end mouseUp
>
I had intermittent problems with the go card right after the setting of 
the name and was told to use the in 30 milliseconds which seems to work 
all the time for me. The else just replaces three lines of code. :-)

Tom

Thomas J. McGrath III
SCS
1000 Killarney Dr.
Pittsburgh, PA 15234
412-885-8541


From m.mackenzie at sasktel.net  Sat Feb  7 19:49:21 2004
From: m.mackenzie at sasktel.net (Mark MacKenzie)
Date: Sat, 07 Feb 2004 18:49:21 -0600
Subject: How to go to newly cloned card?
In-Reply-To: <a05100301bc4b1305f8ee@[66.52.165.196]>
References: <7605FF5C-59B4-11D8-9B4B-000A9567A3E6@swcp.com>
 <40256AA4.30308@sasktel.net> <a05100301bc4b1305f8ee@[66.52.165.196]>
Message-ID: <40258791.2090705@sasktel.net>

Yes, this is one of the things that was driving me mad.  Upon creating 
the card, according to the literature I should have been "taken" there 
(to the freshly cloned card). 

The button with that handler is on one card, a so called master card and 
the card being cloned is another card in the same stack.  I wonder if 
the difference is that I wasn't on the cloning target card when invoking 
the clone command by using something like:

 on mouseUp
  clone this card
end mouseUp

However, as I posted just before now.  After shutting down in disgust 
for awhile, when opening up this stack project, the handler I posted 
about works like a charm. 

I will check the use of "it" as you pointed out, thank you.  It very 
well may be dodgy.  I was attempting to work to the transcript entry for 
the "clone" command.  What had caught my interest was:  "The clone 
command places the name property of the newly created object in the it 
variable."   I see now that this is not exactly what I wrote in the 
handler either.  Thanks for the tip to that point.  I will correct that 
and see what happens.

Live and oh so hopefully, I learn.

Regards Mark MacKenzie


Rob Cozens wrote:

>> For several iterations now I can successsfully create a cloned card 
>> of the target card BUT I cannot navigate to it to allow the user to 
>> begin filling in the information.  It has got to be something simple 
>> I am missing but I am missing it and so must call upon the list to 
>> help me in my ignorance and frustration.
>
>
> Couple of thoughts, Mark.
>
> First,
>
>     set the name of it to "Empty Card"
>
> appears to be invalid syntax: "the name of it" should perhaps be "the 
> name of this card"
>
> Second, Rev dictionary says re the clone command, "If the object is a 
> card, the copy becomes the current card."; so you don't need to go to 
> the card: you are on it once you've cloned it.
>
> Hope this helps.


From m.mackenzie at sasktel.net  Sat Feb  7 19:55:59 2004
From: m.mackenzie at sasktel.net (Mark MacKenzie)
Date: Sat, 07 Feb 2004 18:55:59 -0600
Subject: How to go to newly cloned card?
In-Reply-To: <110F2879-59D0-11D8-B742-000A95DA60FA@adelphia.net>
References: <7605FF5C-59B4-11D8-9B4B-000A9567A3E6@swcp.com>
 <40256AA4.30308@sasktel.net>
 <110F2879-59D0-11D8-B742-000A95DA60FA@adelphia.net>
Message-ID: <4025891F.5060501@sasktel.net>

Great!  That timing clue probably explains the "no such object" type 
error message I was sometimes getting.

I like the use of the "else" as well.  An earlier iteration used such a 
construction but as the frustrating day wore on I dropped back to using 
more familiar simple constructions that just had to work.  I will 
incorporate both of these suggestions.

Thank you Thomas and once again to Rob.

Regards Mark MacKenzie

Thomas McGrath III wrote:

>
> On Feb 7, 2004, at 5:45 PM, Mark MacKenzie wrote:
>
>> My most recent iteration is:
>>
>> on mouseUp
>>  if there is a card "Empty Card" of this stack
>>  then
>>    go card "Empty Card"
>
> -- end if
> -- if there is no card "Empty Card" of this stack
>  -- then
> else
>
>>    clone card "BulletWeightsMasterCard" of this stack
>>    set the name of it to "Empty Card"
>
>    go card "Empty Card" of this stack in 30 milliseconds
>
>>  end if
>> end mouseUp
>>
> I had intermittent problems with the go card right after the setting 
> of the name and was told to use the in 30 milliseconds which seems to 
> work all the time for me. The else just replaces three lines of code. :-)
>
> Tom
>
> Thomas J. McGrath III
> SCS
> 1000 Killarney Dr.
> Pittsburgh, PA 15234
> 412-885-8541
>


From revolution at jaedworks.com  Sat Feb  7 14:22:22 2004
From: revolution at jaedworks.com (Jeanne A. E. DeVoto)
Date: Sat, 7 Feb 2004 11:22:22 -0800
Subject: command-2 (previous) and command-3 (next), jumping by 2
In-Reply-To: <139B6EC8-593A-11D8-9BA4-000393B64EDC@lumin.us>
References: <139B6EC8-593A-11D8-9BA4-000393B64EDC@lumin.us>
Message-ID: <p06010208bc4ae5a30e68@[10.0.1.3]>

At 12:51 AM -0600 2/7/04, Christopher Mitchell wrote:
>Has anyone else experienced the "previous" and "next" card keyboard 
>shortcuts going by 2? so it jumps from card 1 to 3 to 5... and back 
>to 3 to 5.

I've seen this, though I'm not sure what causes it. Looking in the 
script for the View menu, there's a 20-millisecond delay built in - 
again I'm not sure why. Possibly this was added to work around 
whatever problem is causing the skipping in the first place.

Increasing the delay might work, as a workaround.
-- 
jeanne a. e. devoto ~ jaed at jaedworks.com
http://www.jaedworks.com

From revolution at jaedworks.com  Sat Feb  7 14:22:16 2004
From: revolution at jaedworks.com (Jeanne A. E. DeVoto)
Date: Sat, 7 Feb 2004 11:22:16 -0800
Subject: go vs open?
In-Reply-To: <C21E0068-5992-11D8-9F4B-0030656FB5D4@danshafer.com>
References: <40AF9FE8-592B-11D8-85C0-0030656FB5D4@danshafer.com>
 <p0601027cbc4a399529b8@[10.0.1.3]>
 <C21E0068-5992-11D8-9F4B-0030656FB5D4@danshafer.com>
Message-ID: <p06010209bc4ae5e31d51@[10.0.1.3]>

At 9:26 AM -0800 2/7/04, Dan Shafer wrote:
>I decided ultimately not to hide the stack but to close it. I hope 
>that doesn't eventually bite me in the butt; I'm always hesitant to 
>close things because of my remaining uncertainty about what happens 
>to the stacks data and state when I do that. I guess I'm about to 
>find out.

It's going to depend on the stack's destroyStack property. If the 
destroyStack is false, the stack maintains state even when closed 
(since then it doesn't get purged from memory when you close it).
-- 
jeanne a. e. devoto ~ jaed at jaedworks.com
http://www.jaedworks.com

From revolution at jaedworks.com  Sat Feb  7 19:59:34 2004
From: revolution at jaedworks.com (Jeanne A. E. DeVoto)
Date: Sat, 7 Feb 2004 16:59:34 -0800
Subject: Tagging certain objects with contact, copyright, etc
In-Reply-To: <AE81F2B9-599E-11D8-9B4B-000A9567A3E6@swcp.com>
References: <AE81F2B9-599E-11D8-9B4B-000A9567A3E6@swcp.com>
Message-ID: <p06010268bc4b397cdf33@[10.0.1.3]>

At 11:51 AM -0700 2/7/04, Dar Scott wrote:
>The information might be these:
>Copyright
>Contact Info
>Long Unique Name
>
>In might also include these:
>file name (whatever this means)
>Description
>
>I think if these are in multiple properties, then they should share 
>a prefix in the property name.


An alternative approach might be to create a custom property set to 
hold these properties.

I dislike encoding metadata into a prefix or suffix in the name 
(although it's a common practice). Creating a custom property set 
"bundles" all these properties in one handy place,

It also makes it easy to enforce the "read-only" status with a 
setProp handler, without interfering with other custom properties or 
having to list all the read-only properties in a handler.
-- 
jeanne a. e. devoto ~ jaed at jaedworks.com
http://www.jaedworks.com

From dsc at swcp.com  Sat Feb  7 20:06:43 2004
From: dsc at swcp.com (Dar Scott)
Date: Sat, 7 Feb 2004 18:06:43 -0700
Subject: MY Great Big CD Project
In-Reply-To: <FC7EC04A-59CE-11D8-B742-000A95DA60FA@adelphia.net>
Message-ID: <0F726E8A-59D3-11D8-9B4B-000A9567A3E6@swcp.com>


On Saturday, February 7, 2004, at 05:37 PM, Thomas McGrath III wrote:

> Well, I finished my instructive CD.

Thanks for the report, Tom.  I'm sorry it was not all pluses, but I am 
glad to have the opportunity to learn from your experience.  -- Dar



From jmac at consensustech.com  Sat Feb  7 20:08:08 2004
From: jmac at consensustech.com (Jim MacConnell)
Date: Sat, 07 Feb 2004 17:08:08 -0800
Subject: Rotating an image
In-Reply-To: <8BD6E622-5949-11D8-A8C6-000A9580FCCE@backtalk.com>
Message-ID: <BC4ACBF8.29E6%jmac@consensustech.com>

All,

Thanks for all your ideas.  I've made progress in that I've isolated how to
create the problem. It appears that something goes wrong when an image that
has had its "angle" set is placed in another image... Or at least that's
where I think it is.

I put a sample stack illustrating the problem so others can see if the same
happens with everyone else or if it is a memory limitation on my machine
(300 MHz Wallstreet Powerbook, 512 Ram, OS 10.2.8, Rev 2.1.2). I'd
appreciate your checking it out. You can access the stack by typing the
following into the message box.

go stack url "http://www.consensustech.com/revolution/RotationProblem.rev"

I can probably work around by using the "angle" to define the amount to
"rotate" the original image through but I hate to do that as the user may
accidentally set the rotation a few times rather than just once and that
will seriously degrade the images.

btw: I want the images to be stored in the stack.. Not as separate files so
my storage is in custom properties.

Thanks,
Jim


From m.mackenzie at sasktel.net  Sat Feb  7 20:16:23 2004
From: m.mackenzie at sasktel.net (Mark MacKenzie)
Date: Sat, 07 Feb 2004 19:16:23 -0600
Subject: 	Was: How to go to newly cloned card? shoudl be "Timing clone issues"
In-Reply-To: <4025891F.5060501@sasktel.net>
References: <7605FF5C-59B4-11D8-9B4B-000A9567A3E6@swcp.com>
 <40256AA4.30308@sasktel.net>
 <110F2879-59D0-11D8-B742-000A95DA60FA@adelphia.net>
 <4025891F.5060501@sasktel.net>
Message-ID: <40258DE7.9010808@sasktel.net>

Hopefully, this is the final email on this subject.  I am still having 
error problems with the suggested handler.  Timing does seem to be an 
issue here after the cloning of a referenced card.

What works is to break up the handler with a send in 30 milliseconds 
message as follows:

on mouseUp
  if there is a card "Empty Card" of this stack
  then
    go card "Empty Card"
  else
    clone card "BulletWeightsMasterCard" of this stack
    set the name of this card to "Empty Card"
    --    go card "Empty Card" in 30 milliseconds   -- Rev 2.1.2 throws 
an error highlighting the 30 with this construction
    send marchingOrder to me in 30 milliseconds
  end if
end mouseUp

on marchingOrder
  go card "Empty Card"
end marchingOrder

This works and does so consistently without error.  Odd little work around.

Regards Mark

Mark MacKenzie wrote:

> Great!  That timing clue probably explains the "no such object" type 
> error message I was sometimes getting.
>
> I like the use of the "else" as well.  An earlier iteration used such 
> a construction but as the frustrating day wore on I dropped back to 
> using more familiar simple constructions that just had to work.  I 
> will incorporate both of these suggestions.
>
> Thank you Thomas and once again to Rob.
>
> Regards Mark MacKenzie
>
> Thomas McGrath III wrote:
>
>>
>> On Feb 7, 2004, at 5:45 PM, Mark MacKenzie wrote:
>>
>>> My most recent iteration is:
>>>
>>> on mouseUp
>>>  if there is a card "Empty Card" of this stack
>>>  then
>>>    go card "Empty Card"
>>
>>
>> -- end if
>> -- if there is no card "Empty Card" of this stack
>>  -- then
>> else
>>
>>>    clone card "BulletWeightsMasterCard" of this stack
>>>    set the name of it to "Empty Card"
>>
>>
>>    go card "Empty Card" of this stack in 30 milliseconds
>>
>>>  end if
>>> end mouseUp
>>>
>> I had intermittent problems with the go card right after the setting 
>> of the name and was told to use the in 30 milliseconds which seems to 
>> work all the time for me. The else just replaces three lines of code. 
>> :-)
>>
>> Tom
>>
>> Thomas J. McGrath III
>> SCS
>> 1000 Killarney Dr.
>> Pittsburgh, PA 15234
>> 412-885-8541
>>
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>

From rcozens at pon.net  Sat Feb  7 19:13:59 2004
From: rcozens at pon.net (Rob Cozens)
Date: Sat, 7 Feb 2004 17:13:59 -0700
Subject: Manipulating Old Dates
In-Reply-To: <BC4AB705.4D64%pixelbird@interisland.net>
References: <BC4AB705.4D64%pixelbird@interisland.net>
Message-ID: <a05100300bc4b2caaff62@[66.52.165.196]>

>What do we do with _really_ old dates, like weather logs from California
>missions 300 years ago?
>
>Ideas?

Ken:

So long as we don't predate the Julian calendar, Julian date handler 
support is the first thing that comes to mind...by this I mean 
seven-digit Julian dates (YYYYDDD), not the pre-Y2K five digit 
(YYDDD) variety.

The best solution would be the present Transcript syntax with the 
added smarts to deal with multiple centuries.  I could deal with 
centuryCutoffs if Transcript were smart enough to convert short dates 
with four year digits correctly.  Eg: with default centuryCutoff, 
2/2/94 converts to 1994,2,2....  I would like it to convert 2/2/1694 
to 1694,2,2... and allow "date math" (ie: adding/subtracting seconds, 
minutes, hours, days, months, and years to the appropriate item in 
the dateItem string) across centuries.
-- 

Rob Cozens
CCW, Serendipity Software Company
http://www.oenolog.net/who.htm

"And I, which was two fooles, do so grow three;
Who are a little wise, the best fooles bee."

from "The Triple Foole" by John Donne (1572-1631)

From rcozens at pon.net  Sat Feb  7 19:18:56 2004
From: rcozens at pon.net (Rob Cozens)
Date: Sat, 7 Feb 2004 17:18:56 -0700
Subject: How to go to newly cloned card?
In-Reply-To: <40258791.2090705@sasktel.net>
References: <7605FF5C-59B4-11D8-9B4B-000A9567A3E6@swcp.com>
 <40256AA4.30308@sasktel.net> <a05100301bc4b1305f8ee@[66.52.165.196]>
 <40258791.2090705@sasktel.net>
Message-ID: <a05100301bc4b3072e2d1@[66.52.165.196]>

>After shutting down in disgust for awhile, when opening up this 
>stack project, the handler I posted about works like a charm.

I have experiences like that occasionally, Mark.

I tend to conclude that under some circumstances script changes don't 
seem to get "applied" until the stack has been saved, closed, and 
reopened.
-- 

Rob Cozens
CCW, Serendipity Software Company
http://www.oenolog.net/who.htm

"And I, which was two fooles, do so grow three;
Who are a little wise, the best fooles bee."

from "The Triple Foole" by John Donne (1572-1631)

From lists at mangomultimedia.com  Sat Feb  7 20:22:56 2004
From: lists at mangomultimedia.com (Trevor DeVore)
Date: Sat, 7 Feb 2004 18:22:56 -0700
Subject: MY Great Big CD Project
In-Reply-To: <FC7EC04A-59CE-11D8-B742-000A95DA60FA@adelphia.net>
References: <FC7EC04A-59CE-11D8-B742-000A95DA60FA@adelphia.net>
Message-ID: <533CBEC8-59D5-11D8-8059-000A956C462A@mangomultimedia.com>

On Feb 7, 2004, at 5:37 PM, Thomas McGrath III wrote:

> ...
>
> I will consider this CD and the use of REV a success but I am hoping 
> for a few enhancements to make multimedia work better with what people 
> expect ie Flash and good text formatting.

Native flash support would be a great thing to have in Revolution for 
use in creating text animations, etc.  It looks like you can get source 
code to build a player into the Revolution environment but I have no 
idea what licensing would cost:

<http://www.macromedia.com/software/devices/licensing/sourcecode/>

Maybe we could start a collection pot :-)

-- 
Trevor DeVore
Blue Mango Multimedia
trevor at mangomultimedia.com


From jacque at hyperactivesw.com  Sat Feb  7 20:32:20 2004
From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay)
Date: Sat, 07 Feb 2004 19:32:20 -0600
Subject: Tagging certain objects with contact, copyright, etc
In-Reply-To: <BDC327EA-59AA-11D8-9B4B-000A9567A3E6@swcp.com>
References: <BDC327EA-59AA-11D8-9B4B-000A9567A3E6@swcp.com>
Message-ID: <402591A4.4050807@hyperactivesw.com>

On 2/7/04 2:18 PM, Dar Scott wrote:

> I was looking to see if there was already something out there, some 
> tradition the old-timers might know about.  Or maybe something somebody 
> has already made up.

There is only one x-talk convention that I can think of. It was 
implemented back when HyperCard 2.0-style externals were first released. 
The convention allowed passing either of two specific parameters to an 
XCMD/XFCN and you would always get certain information back. The two 
params were:

!  -- XCMD/XFCN sytnax
?  -- author and/or copyright info

So if I had an XFCN called "getPixel", in addition to the normal 
programming parameters it accepted, I could also get this info back from it:

getPixel(?) --> getPixel(theXY [,theMonitor]);returns: RGB triplet
getPixel(!) --> Copyright 2004, JarJar Binks

-- 
Jacqueline Landman Gay         |     jacque at hyperactivesw.com
HyperActive Software           |     http://www.hyperactivesw.com

From dsc at swcp.com  Sat Feb  7 20:35:33 2004
From: dsc at swcp.com (Dar Scott)
Date: Sat, 7 Feb 2004 18:35:33 -0700
Subject: Tagging certain objects with contact, copyright, etc
In-Reply-To: <p06010268bc4b397cdf33@[10.0.1.3]>
Message-ID: <1645E744-59D7-11D8-9B4B-000A9567A3E6@swcp.com>


On Saturday, February 7, 2004, at 05:59 PM, Jeanne A. E. DeVoto wrote:

> An alternative approach might be to create a custom property set to 
> hold these properties.
>
> I dislike encoding metadata into a prefix or suffix in the name 
> (although it's a common practice). Creating a custom property set 
> "bundles" all these properties in one handy place,

I like this!

This also works well for grouping meta data into suites.

I was thinking that for custom controls that require a supporting 
library that some metadata would be allowed to come from the library.  
I have to think about whether this can still be done or whether it is 
important.

> It also makes it easy to enforce the "read-only" status with a setProp 
> handler, without interfering with other custom properties or having to 
> list all the read-only properties in a handler.

Well, before you brought the custom property set idea, for each 
metadata property I was thinking of (1) a setProp to ignore the set (or 
optionally to change the value) and optionally (2) a virtual getProp.

My concern was to be friendly in the environment of the "Custom 
Properties" pane and I'm not sure how to minimize any confusion here.

However, I'm not sure how to do the "read-only" for a custom property 
set or if it is important.

Thanks for your advice.

Dar Scott


From dsc at swcp.com  Sat Feb  7 20:42:20 2004
From: dsc at swcp.com (Dar Scott)
Date: Sat, 7 Feb 2004 18:42:20 -0700
Subject: Tagging certain objects with contact, copyright, etc
In-Reply-To: <402591A4.4050807@hyperactivesw.com>
Message-ID: <08B9992E-59D8-11D8-9B4B-000A9567A3E6@swcp.com>


On Saturday, February 7, 2004, at 06:32 PM, J. Landman Gay wrote:

>> I was looking to see if there was already something out there, some 
>> tradition the old-timers might know about.  Or maybe something 
>> somebody has already made up.
>
> There is only one x-talk convention that I can think of.

You anticipated my other pondering.

> getPixel(?) --> getPixel(theXY [,theMonitor]);returns: RGB triplet
> getPixel(!) --> Copyright 2004, JarJar Binks

In Revolution one is reserved and the other is bad syntax, but having 
this info in a regular way from externals would be good.

Dar Scott


From jacque at hyperactivesw.com  Sat Feb  7 20:51:22 2004
From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay)
Date: Sat, 07 Feb 2004 19:51:22 -0600
Subject: Was: How to go to newly cloned card? shoudl be "Timing clone
 issues"
In-Reply-To: <40258DE7.9010808@sasktel.net>
References: <7605FF5C-59B4-11D8-9B4B-000A9567A3E6@swcp.com>
	<40256AA4.30308@sasktel.net>
	<110F2879-59D0-11D8-B742-000A95DA60FA@adelphia.net>
	<4025891F.5060501@sasktel.net> <40258DE7.9010808@sasktel.net>
Message-ID: <4025961A.6030805@hyperactivesw.com>

On 2/7/04 7:16 PM, Mark MacKenzie wrote:

> on mouseUp
>  if there is a card "Empty Card" of this stack
>  then
>    go card "Empty Card"
>  else
>    clone card "BulletWeightsMasterCard" of this stack
>    set the name of this card to "Empty Card"
>    --    go card "Empty Card" in 30 milliseconds   -- Rev 2.1.2 throws 
> an error highlighting the 30 with this construction
>    send marchingOrder to me in 30 milliseconds
>  end if
> end mouseUp
> 
> on marchingOrder
>  go card "Empty Card"
> end marchingOrder
> 
> This works and does so consistently without error.  Odd little work around.

Seems to me you should be able to just stop after the "clone" command 
and you will already be on that card. Why do you need to "go" to it?

If you are cloning a card that isn't the current one, then yes, the 
cloned card will appear after the original and you may not be on it. If 
that is the case, then naming "this card" is going to name the current 
card instead of the newly cloned one. Use "set the name of IT..." which 
will name the remote clone. So, I'd do this:

if there is a card "empty card" then
   go card "empty card"
else
   clone card "BulletWeightsMasterCard"  -- no need to specify the stack
                                         -- if it is the current stack
   set the name of it to "empty card"
   go cd it
end if

That doesn't work?

-- 
Jacqueline Landman Gay         |     jacque at hyperactivesw.com
HyperActive Software           |     http://www.hyperactivesw.com

From 3mcgrath at adelphia.net  Sat Feb  7 20:54:46 2004
From: 3mcgrath at adelphia.net (Thomas McGrath III)
Date: Sat, 7 Feb 2004 20:54:46 -0500
Subject: Rotating an image
In-Reply-To: <BC4ACBF8.29E6%jmac@consensustech.com>
References: <BC4ACBF8.29E6%jmac@consensustech.com>
Message-ID: <C57BBB4C-59D9-11D8-B742-000A95DA60FA@adelphia.net>

At first I had no image in preview but then figured i had to click on 
the imagedata. That was correct.

After repeated rotate's all three images became garbled. once garbled I 
hit the hide original and build thumbnail and thumbnail and imagedate 
were reset and looked fine again. But preview was still garbled.

Tom

On Feb 7, 2004, at 8:08 PM, Jim MacConnell wrote:

> go stack url 
> "http://www.consensustech.com/revolution/RotationProblem.rev"

Thomas J. McGrath III
SCS
1000 Killarney Dr.
Pittsburgh, PA 15234
412-885-8541


From dsc at swcp.com  Sat Feb  7 21:00:38 2004
From: dsc at swcp.com (Dar Scott)
Date: Sat, 7 Feb 2004 19:00:38 -0700
Subject: Manipulating Old Dates
In-Reply-To: <a05100300bc4b2caaff62@[66.52.165.196]>
Message-ID: <976A6829-59DA-11D8-9B4B-000A9567A3E6@swcp.com>


On Saturday, February 7, 2004, at 05:13 PM, Rob Cozens wrote:

> So long as we don't predate the Julian calendar, Julian date handler 
> support is the first thing that comes to mind...by this I mean 
> seven-digit Julian dates (YYYYDDD), not the pre-Y2K five digit (YYDDD) 
> variety.

Do you mean "don't predate the Gregorian calendar"?  I think I might be 
getting my calendars mixed up.  I confess to being confused by the term 
Julian date.

It would be nice to use any date presentation suitable for a selected 
calendar, even outside the normal range for that calendar and to do 
date math on those even when not similar.  Having a default calendar 
would be important.  Getting warning flags for dates outside of normal 
ranges might be nice but may not be practical or meaningful.

Dar Scott


From 3mcgrath at adelphia.net  Sat Feb  7 21:05:41 2004
From: 3mcgrath at adelphia.net (Thomas McGrath III)
Date: Sat, 7 Feb 2004 21:05:41 -0500
Subject: Was: How to go to newly cloned card? shoudl be "Timing clone
	issues"
In-Reply-To: <40258DE7.9010808@sasktel.net>
References: <7605FF5C-59B4-11D8-9B4B-000A9567A3E6@swcp.com>
	<40256AA4.30308@sasktel.net>
	<110F2879-59D0-11D8-B742-000A95DA60FA@adelphia.net>
	<4025891F.5060501@sasktel.net> <40258DE7.9010808@sasktel.net>
Message-ID: <4C215ECE-59DB-11D8-B742-000A95DA60FA@adelphia.net>

Mark,

Actually, I ended up having to do the same. I forgot just before.
It seems to me that the handler starts with no card and then creates a 
card but does not yet see it. so by leaving and going to another 
function it now 'sees' the card and can act upon it. I think the send 
in time just makes sure it has time to load the new card.

I have started to treat most of my scripts this way by putting my 
functions outside of my running script. It seems to help in a lot of 
situations.

Glad you figured it out.

Tom

On Feb 7, 2004, at 8:16 PM, Mark MacKenzie wrote:

> Hopefully, this is the final email on this subject.  I am still having 
> error problems with the suggested handler.  Timing does seem to be an 
> issue here after the cloning of a referenced card.
>
> What works is to break up the handler with a send in 30 milliseconds 
> message as follows:
>
> on mouseUp
>  if there is a card "Empty Card" of this stack
>  then
>    go card "Empty Card"
>  else
>    clone card "BulletWeightsMasterCard" of this stack
>    set the name of this card to "Empty Card"
>    --    go card "Empty Card" in 30 milliseconds   -- Rev 2.1.2 throws 
> an error highlighting the 30 with this construction
>    send marchingOrder to me in 30 milliseconds
>  end if
> end mouseUp
>
> on marchingOrder
>  go card "Empty Card"
> end marchingOrder
>
> This works and does so consistently without error.  Odd little work 
> around.
>
> Regards Mark
>
> Mark MacKenzie wrote:
>
>> Great!  That timing clue probably explains the "no such object" type 
>> error message I was sometimes getting.
>>
>> I like the use of the "else" as well.  An earlier iteration used such 
>> a construction but as the frustrating day wore on I dropped back to 
>> using more familiar simple constructions that just had to work.  I 
>> will incorporate both of these suggestions.
>>
>> Thank you Thomas and once again to Rob.
>>
>> Regards Mark MacKenzie
>>
>> Thomas McGrath III wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> On Feb 7, 2004, at 5:45 PM, Mark MacKenzie wrote:
>>>
>>>> My most recent iteration is:
>>>>
>>>> on mouseUp
>>>>  if there is a card "Empty Card" of this stack
>>>>  then
>>>>    go card "Empty Card"
>>>
>>>
>>> -- end if
>>> -- if there is no card "Empty Card" of this stack
>>>  -- then
>>> else
>>>
>>>>    clone card "BulletWeightsMasterCard" of this stack
>>>>    set the name of it to "Empty Card"
>>>
>>>
>>>    go card "Empty Card" of this stack in 30 milliseconds
>>>
>>>>  end if
>>>> end mouseUp
>>>>
>>> I had intermittent problems with the go card right after the setting 
>>> of the name and was told to use the in 30 milliseconds which seems 
>>> to work all the time for me. The else just replaces three lines of 
>>> code. :-)
>>>
>>> Tom
>>>
>>> Thomas J. McGrath III
>>> SCS
>>> 1000 Killarney Dr.
>>> Pittsburgh, PA 15234
>>> 412-885-8541
>>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> use-revolution mailing list
>> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>>
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>
>

Thomas J. McGrath III
SCS
1000 Killarney Dr.
Pittsburgh, PA 15234
412-885-8541


From 3mcgrath at adelphia.net  Sat Feb  7 21:11:49 2004
From: 3mcgrath at adelphia.net (Thomas McGrath III)
Date: Sat, 7 Feb 2004 21:11:49 -0500
Subject: Was: How to go to newly cloned card? shoudl be "Timing clone
	issues"
In-Reply-To: <4025961A.6030805@hyperactivesw.com>
References: <7605FF5C-59B4-11D8-9B4B-000A9567A3E6@swcp.com>
	<40256AA4.30308@sasktel.net>
	<110F2879-59D0-11D8-B742-000A95DA60FA@adelphia.net>
	<4025891F.5060501@sasktel.net> <40258DE7.9010808@sasktel.net>
	<4025961A.6030805@hyperactivesw.com>
Message-ID: <2725254B-59DC-11D8-B742-000A95DA60FA@adelphia.net>

Jac,

That doesn't 'always' work for me. I have had to include a send in time 
or in 30 milliseconds to get it to work 'all the time' ALSO, by putting 
it outside of the current handler I have less errors and problems FWIW.

Tom


On Feb 7, 2004, at 8:51 PM, J. Landman Gay wrote:

> On 2/7/04 7:16 PM, Mark MacKenzie wrote:
>
>> on mouseUp
>>  if there is a card "Empty Card" of this stack
>>  then
>>    go card "Empty Card"
>>  else
>>    clone card "BulletWeightsMasterCard" of this stack
>>    set the name of this card to "Empty Card"
>>    --    go card "Empty Card" in 30 milliseconds   -- Rev 2.1.2 
>> throws an error highlighting the 30 with this construction
>>    send marchingOrder to me in 30 milliseconds
>>  end if
>> end mouseUp
>> on marchingOrder
>>  go card "Empty Card"
>> end marchingOrder
>> This works and does so consistently without error.  Odd little work 
>> around.
>
> Seems to me you should be able to just stop after the "clone" command 
> and you will already be on that card. Why do you need to "go" to it?
>
> If you are cloning a card that isn't the current one, then yes, the 
> cloned card will appear after the original and you may not be on it. 
> If that is the case, then naming "this card" is going to name the 
> current card instead of the newly cloned one. Use "set the name of 
> IT..." which will name the remote clone. So, I'd do this:
>
> if there is a card "empty card" then
>   go card "empty card"
> else
>   clone card "BulletWeightsMasterCard"  -- no need to specify the stack
>                                         -- if it is the current stack
>   set the name of it to "empty card"
>   go cd it
> end if
>
> That doesn't work?
>
> -- 
> Jacqueline Landman Gay         |     jacque at hyperactivesw.com
> HyperActive Software           |     http://www.hyperactivesw.com
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>
>

Thomas J. McGrath III
SCS
1000 Killarney Dr.
Pittsburgh, PA 15234
412-885-8541


From rjb at rz.uni-potsdam.de  Sat Feb  7 21:32:04 2004
From: rjb at rz.uni-potsdam.de (Robert Brenstein)
Date: Sun, 8 Feb 2004 03:32:04 +0100
Subject: Tagging certain objects with contact, copyright, etc
In-Reply-To: <F811B972-59CA-11D8-9B4B-000A9567A3E6@swcp.com>
References: <F811B972-59CA-11D8-9B4B-000A9567A3E6@swcp.com>
Message-ID: <a06020401bc4b4effb347@[141.89.100.235]>

>On Saturday, February 7, 2004, at 03:07 PM, Rob Cozens wrote:
>
>>As to the About window control, if you are providing a tool for 
>>others to use, try to keep it as flexible as possible.  I present 
>>About info in different ways in different stacks, from the 
>>traditional About field + RR logo to moving banner text + logo in 
>>the prompt field.
>
>Since a library would be used by developers and not end users except 
>tinkering users, then it may not need much.  I would suppose some 
>libraries are never opened, so such an about box might never get 
>seen.
>
>Dar

That's right. If my product uses somebody else's library, I 
should/could include a mention of it in my About box but otherwise it 
should not be (in typical program) explicitely visible to the end 
user. However, as someone said in another email in this thread, as a 
developer, I want to see more info, description, examples etc. Since 
in library only the stack scripts are the true library, the cards can 
be easily used for that documentation, examples, etc. If I use the 
library as library, I just 'start using' it. If I want to see more, I 
just 'go to' it. No need for custom properties or special conventions.

my 2 cents.

Robert

From stephenREVOLUTION at barncard.com  Sat Feb  7 21:50:36 2004
From: stephenREVOLUTION at barncard.com (Stephen Quinn Barncard)
Date: Sat, 7 Feb 2004 18:50:36 -0800
Subject: Tagging certain objects with contact, copyright, etc
Message-ID: <p06020408bc4b53f4f87f@[192.168.1.100]>

Those params would be strings as "?" or "!" -- so that wouldn't be 
bad syntax or reserved would it?  With HC externals I always included 
the quotes just in case. It was a good convention....

sqb

>On Saturday, February 7, 2004, at 06:32 PM, J. Landman Gay wrote:
>
>>getPixel(?) --> getPixel(theXY [,theMonitor]);returns: RGB triplet
>>getPixel(!) --> Copyright 2004, JarJar Binks
>
>In Revolution one is reserved and the other is bad syntax, but 
>having this info in a regular way from externals would be good.
>
>Dar Scott
>

From dsc at swcp.com  Sat Feb  7 22:04:42 2004
From: dsc at swcp.com (Dar Scott)
Date: Sat, 7 Feb 2004 20:04:42 -0700
Subject: Tagging certain objects with contact, copyright, etc
In-Reply-To: <a06020401bc4b4effb347@[141.89.100.235]>
Message-ID: <8AB91604-59E3-11D8-9B4B-000A9567A3E6@swcp.com>


On Saturday, February 7, 2004, at 07:32 PM, Robert Brenstein wrote:

> That's right. If my product uses somebody else's library, I 
> should/could include a mention of it in my About box but otherwise it 
> should not be (in typical program) explicitely visible to the end 
> user. However, as someone said in another email in this thread, as a 
> developer, I want to see more info, description, examples etc. Since 
> in library only the stack scripts are the true library, the cards can 
> be easily used for that documentation, examples, etc. If I use the 
> library as library, I just 'start using' it. If I want to see more, I 
> just 'go to' it.

I think this is fine for light documentation.  For heavier 
documentation this might put some overhead on the size of the stack.

I have my "primer shell".  I could improve on that and use that as the 
packaging for a "library".  Since the primer is not included in the 
product that uses the library, it can be as big as I think fitting.

If a library is delivered as a "script library", a button in the primer 
can copy that from the stack script and it can be pasted where needed.

If a library is delivered as a front or back script button, that can be 
on a page in the primer with instructions on how to paste it to a card 
or get it into an unplaced group or whatever.

If a library is best a stack then the primer can birth it to whatever 
location is needed and even start using it after doing so.  The birthed 
stack would have very light information on a card or two.  The primer 
would need to have someway of finding the library again.

If the deliverable is a custom control, the primer can have a catalog 
section and the control can be copied and pasted.  It might need 
supporting libraries and/or plugins.

If the deliverable is a plugin, then the primer can install it.

A particular primer might have any combination.

Thanks for helping me think through this.

> No need for custom properties or special conventions.

Not for humans, but it might help a catalog or the setup for loading 
libraries or automated upgrading or whatever.

Dar Scott


From dsc at swcp.com  Sat Feb  7 22:07:59 2004
From: dsc at swcp.com (Dar Scott)
Date: Sat, 7 Feb 2004 20:07:59 -0700
Subject: Tagging certain objects with contact, copyright, etc
In-Reply-To: <p06020408bc4b53f4f87f@[192.168.1.100]>
Message-ID: <00303E76-59E4-11D8-9B4B-000A9567A3E6@swcp.com>


On Saturday, February 7, 2004, at 07:50 PM, Stephen Quinn Barncard 
wrote:

> Those params would be strings as "?" or "!" -- so that wouldn't be bad 
> syntax or reserved would it?

Right.

Is this approach still a good idea?  Should it apply to library 
functions?

I imagine some library functions as well as some external functions 
would need to see these as valid data.

Because of some limitations of externals, I'm considering putting 
library wrappers around externals in general.

Dar Scott


From stephenREVOLUTION at barncard.com  Sat Feb  7 22:25:54 2004
From: stephenREVOLUTION at barncard.com (Stephen Quinn Barncard)
Date: Sat, 7 Feb 2004 19:25:54 -0800
Subject: Supercard Conversion
Message-ID: <p0602040abc4b5cb80692@[192.168.1.100]>

So I tried to use the Supercard project converter today... it's a 
mess. It's a SC 3.x project and uses externals. It also had trouble 
recognizing SC filetypes. I fixed the filetype part (same old OSX 
problem) but then tried to run (what I think is an external) CopyFile 
it failed.

has anyone upgraded or fixed it recently? Or do I have to find a OS 9 
version and try that. At this point it's easier just to cut and paste 
scripts.


sqb

From jacque at hyperactivesw.com  Sat Feb  7 22:55:41 2004
From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay)
Date: Sat, 07 Feb 2004 21:55:41 -0600
Subject: Long combo box buttons
Message-ID: <4025B33D.2030609@hyperactivesw.com>

Has anyone figured out a way to display more than a few lines in a combo 
box list, or do I have to build my own doodad with a field? I've got 
some long lists and the few lines the standard combo box shows aren't 
enough.

Or is there an HIG restriction on the number of lines a combo box is 
supposed to have?

-- 
Jacqueline Landman Gay         |     jacque at hyperactivesw.com
HyperActive Software           |     http://www.hyperactivesw.com


From ambassador at fourthworld.com  Sat Feb  7 22:55:43 2004
From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin)
Date: Sat, 07 Feb 2004 19:55:43 -0800
Subject: Compression and Decompression of multiple files
In-Reply-To: <a05100304bc4afab85b63@[66.52.165.20]>
Message-ID: <BC4AF33F.3CE54%ambassador@fourthworld.com>

Rob Cozens wrote:

>>> Is TAR supported on all Revolution platforms?
>> 
>> TAR is everywhere.
> 
> But assuming Alex is correct, and my experience seems to confirm it,
> TAR by itself provides no compression/decompression.

True, but it's rare to see such archives not afford themselves the gzip
compression widely supported by un-TAR utils.
 
> So is there one utility currently available for all Rev platforms to
> build and decompress compressed TAR archives?

Not that I'm aware of, but there are several separate ones for every major
OS.

-- 
 Richard Gaskin 
 Fourth World Media Corporation
 ___________________________________________________________
 Ambassador at FourthWorld.com       http://www.FourthWorld.com


From davis.phil at comcast.net  Sat Feb  7 23:05:31 2004
From: davis.phil at comcast.net (Phil Davis)
Date: Sat, 7 Feb 2004 20:05:31 -0800
Subject: Long combo box buttons
In-Reply-To: <4025B33D.2030609@hyperactivesw.com>
Message-ID: <ILEFKEGKNEFMMOILLJNOGEHPCEAA.davis.phil@comcast.net>

>
> Has anyone figured out a way to display more than a few lines in a combo
> box list, or do I have to build my own doodad with a field? I've got
> some long lists and the few lines the standard combo box shows aren't
> enough.
>
> Or is there an HIG restriction on the number of lines a combo box is
> supposed to have?

When you do this:
   set the menuLines of btn "comboBox" to the number of lines in btn
"comboBox"

Do you still not have enough display space for your list? If not, maybe you
do need a custom doodad.

Phil Davis

>
> --
> Jacqueline Landman Gay         |     jacque at hyperactivesw.com
> HyperActive Software           |     http://www.hyperactivesw.com
>


From ambassador at fourthworld.com  Sat Feb  7 23:09:10 2004
From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin)
Date: Sat, 07 Feb 2004 20:09:10 -0800
Subject: Puzzled about stack size
In-Reply-To: <a05100307bc4b1fcb26f9@[66.81.137.137]>
Message-ID: <BC4AF666.3CE55%ambassador@fourthworld.com>

Jim Hurley wrote:

> Richard Gaskin wrote:
>> When the visible eludes, check the less visible:  what's in the custom
>> property sets for those objects?
>
> A reasonable assumption, but this was a very simple stack.
>
> These table fields are my new Zen Koan. Very ephemeral.
> 
> Try this:
> 
> 1) Create a stack with a single field.
> 2) Go to its property inspector and under "table" check the "table
> object" and "cell editing" boxes.
> 3) Put something in cells a1, a2, b1 and b2 (Excel notation.) Maybe
> just four letters, a,b,c,d.
> 4) In the message box type: put empty into field 1 -- As expected,
> the data disappears
> 5) Ah, but it's not gone. Go to the property inspector again and
> select "table".
> 6) Voila, the data returns.
> 
> It appears that table fields have a dual personality. (Mac OS 9, RR 2.1.2)

Indeed they do.  See the Rev custom property sets installed in the object.

If you need tabular display but nothing else, you can turn off the Table
option and just set the hGrid and vGrid properties to display tab-delimited
text in a columnar format.

-- 
 Richard Gaskin 
 Fourth World Media Corporation
 ___________________________________________________________
 Ambassador at FourthWorld.com       http://www.FourthWorld.com


From shaosean at unitz.ca  Sat Feb  7 23:17:22 2004
From: shaosean at unitz.ca (shaosean at unitz.ca)
Date: Sat, 07 Feb 2004 23:17:22 -0500
Subject: Long combo box buttons
In-Reply-To: <4025B33D.2030609@hyperactivesw.com>
References: <4025B33D.2030609@hyperactivesw.com>
Message-ID: <WorldClient-F200402072317.AA17220039@unitz.ca>

in the first screen of the "inspector" you'll see a spot to put the 
number of lines to display (if you want a fixed size) or you can use the 
script that was just posted to the list for a dynamic number..

-Sean


From alex at mindlube.com  Sat Feb  7 23:25:50 2004
From: alex at mindlube.com (Alex Rice)
Date: Sat, 7 Feb 2004 21:25:50 -0700
Subject: debugger freezes at new card?
Message-ID: <DFEC4E38-59EE-11D8-A6DB-000393C4760A@mindlube.com>

Anyone know if this is in bugzilla? The debugger freezes up at line 2 
of this handler:

on mouseup
   put "hello"
   new card
   put "world"
end mouseup

--
Alex Rice | Mindlube Software | http://mindlube.com


From 3mcgrath at adelphia.net  Sat Feb  7 23:43:48 2004
From: 3mcgrath at adelphia.net (Thomas McGrath III)
Date: Sat, 7 Feb 2004 23:43:48 -0500
Subject: debugger freezes at new card?
In-Reply-To: <DFEC4E38-59EE-11D8-A6DB-000393C4760A@mindlube.com>
References: <DFEC4E38-59EE-11D8-A6DB-000393C4760A@mindlube.com>
Message-ID: <6281020E-59F1-11D8-B742-000A95DA60FA@adelphia.net>

try

on mouseUp
	put "hello"
	create card "New"
	put "world"
end mouseUp


new card is for outside support (HC or SC) and may not work with the 
name empty?????
the docs say to use
create card "Name"
or
create  card
which leaves the name of the card as empty.... (why do this though)

Tom


On Feb 7, 2004, at 11:25 PM, Alex Rice wrote:

> Anyone know if this is in bugzilla? The debugger freezes up at line 2 
> of this handler:
>
> on mouseup
>   put "hello"
>   new card
>   put "world"
> end mouseup
>
> --
> Alex Rice | Mindlube Software | http://mindlube.com
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>
>

Thomas J. McGrath III
SCS
1000 Killarney Dr.
Pittsburgh, PA 15234
412-885-8541


From 3mcgrath at adelphia.net  Sat Feb  7 23:49:54 2004
From: 3mcgrath at adelphia.net (Thomas McGrath III)
Date: Sat, 7 Feb 2004 23:49:54 -0500
Subject: debugger freezes at new card?
In-Reply-To: <6281020E-59F1-11D8-B742-000A95DA60FA@adelphia.net>
References: <DFEC4E38-59EE-11D8-A6DB-000393C4760A@mindlube.com>
	<6281020E-59F1-11D8-B742-000A95DA60FA@adelphia.net>
Message-ID: <3CC9EBAB-59F2-11D8-B742-000A95DA60FA@adelphia.net>

For me the debugger takes along time on the create card but it did 
eventually create the card BUT then it took a long time to change the 
name to "New" SO it seems while the debugger is open it takes for ever.

I got tired and hit command period and it all sped up?????

Tom

On Feb 7, 2004, at 11:43 PM, Thomas McGrath III wrote:

> try
>
> on mouseUp
> 	put "hello"
> 	create card "New"
> 	put "world"
> end mouseUp
>
>
> new card is for outside support (HC or SC) and may not work with the 
> name empty?????
> the docs say to use
> create card "Name"
> or
> create  card
> which leaves the name of the card as empty.... (why do this though)
>
> Tom
>
>
> On Feb 7, 2004, at 11:25 PM, Alex Rice wrote:
>
>> Anyone know if this is in bugzilla? The debugger freezes up at line 2 
>> of this handler:
>>
>> on mouseup
>>   put "hello"
>>   new card
>>   put "world"
>> end mouseup
>>
>> --
>> Alex Rice | Mindlube Software | http://mindlube.com
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> use-revolution mailing list
>> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>>
>>
>
> Thomas J. McGrath III
> SCS
> 1000 Killarney Dr.
> Pittsburgh, PA 15234
> 412-885-8541
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>
>

Thomas J. McGrath III
SCS
1000 Killarney Dr.
Pittsburgh, PA 15234
412-885-8541


From chipp at chipp.com  Sun Feb  8 00:01:55 2004
From: chipp at chipp.com (Chipp Walters)
Date: Sat, 7 Feb 2004 23:01:55 -0600
Subject: crash rash
In-Reply-To: <200402071955.DAA04126@msr75.hinet.net>
Message-ID: <GGEOJBEEGFHLDOFIMMPIKEMJFPAA.chipp@chipp.com>

Fritz,

try in the msg:

set the breakpoints to empty

and see if it doens't fix your problem. I had a similar problem on XP and
traced it to the above.

-Chipp

> -----Original Message-----
> From: use-revolution-bounces at lists.runrev.com
> [mailto:use-revolution-bounces at lists.runrev.com]On Behalf Of Friedrich
> F. Grohmann
> Sent: Saturday, February 07, 2004 1:57 PM
> To: How to use Revolution
> Subject: crash rash
>
>
> I am working with Rev 2.1.2 on a PowerPC G4 with OS 10.3.2 . Recently,
> Rev has been crashing with great regularity. After saving and closing the
> application I am developing, a mere touch at the menubar will, before I
> can pull down any menu, lead either to an "unexpected" quit or the
> rainbow wheel.
>
> Rev crashed the first time when Chinese text in fields went berserk.
> Though it  seems I've managed to circumvent similar episodes by now, the
> present frequency  of crashes makes me wonder whether nothing more
> fundamental is going wrong. Any help appreciated.
>
> Fritz
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>



From dsc at swcp.com  Sun Feb  8 00:12:48 2004
From: dsc at swcp.com (Dar Scott)
Date: Sat, 7 Feb 2004 22:12:48 -0700
Subject: re-locking a stack
Message-ID: <6FEA6FBA-59F5-11D8-9B4B-000A9567A3E6@swcp.com>

How do I re-lock a stack after unlocking it?

I tried setting the passkey to empty, but get an error.  I tried 
setting the password again, but that did not work.  Am I stuck with the 
stack unlocked for that session?

Dar Scott


From alex at mindlube.com  Sun Feb  8 00:15:48 2004
From: alex at mindlube.com (Alex Rice)
Date: Sat, 7 Feb 2004 22:15:48 -0700
Subject: mission critical apps; was Re: cross platform ide
In-Reply-To: <C413053A-508C-11D8-B465-000393C4760A@mindlube.com>
References: <1ab.1f93992a.2d4749e5@aol.com>
	<C413053A-508C-11D8-B465-000393C4760A@mindlube.com>
Message-ID: <DB3FD718-59F5-11D8-A6DB-000393C4760A@mindlube.com>

Don't interpret any of the following as a complaint against xtalks, in 
fact I desire to move away from business support apps and into more 
games and multimedia. So I do like the "ad-hoc" flexibility of 
transcript.

Topics have been coming up about how Runrev should gain footholds in 
corporate IT departments, and lure in disaffected VB and .NET 
programmers, and some issues are inevitably going to be raised about 
the programming model used by transcript.

recall this post
On Jan 26, 2004, at 10:50 PM, Alex Rice wrote:
> Instead of ad-hoc message passing and script evaluation found in 
> xtalks, Eiffel code is meticulously crafted with strictly typed 
> objects that can only connect with other particular objects and call 
> certain functions; "design by contract" they call it.

I keep on thinking about this post I made a couple of weeks ago, and I 
am wondering more and more: is Runrev really suitable for mission 
critical business or industrial apps where the design is strictly top 
down with a rigid and well defined plan about how the objects are 
required to interact with the rest of the system?

Look at Eiffel as the total opposite extreme from xtalks: the eiffel 
compiler won't even build your code unless it can say with certainty if 
a particular message is passed, it will have x,y,z pre conditions and 
post conditions- you can count on a particular state of the system.

At a job interview once the guy was asking me about Objective-C, which 
I had on my resume. As a Java programmer of a large financial app, he 
was skeptical about the messaging model employed by Objective-C: "just 
send a message 'out there' for some other object to catch... 
hopefully", as he described it. Now he doesn't understand how the 
Objective-C runtime works exactly, but I can understand the issue he's 
worried about: How do you know whether a message will arrive at it's 
intended destination (object).

In short- you don't know, unless the compiler and the language work 
together to give that kind of assurance. Java goes a long way towards 
this goal because it won't compile if any method call or any parameter 
does not match the signature of the objects used.

Objective-C is compiled so if you are using typed objects, the compiler 
gives you a degree of safety that object x will accept message y at 
runtime. But with Objective-C it's still a smalltalk like "throw a 
message out there".

xtalk (transcript) however is a total free-for-all. As messages are 
fired off, any handler could dynamically change the message path via 
front scripts, back scripts, insert scripts, etc. Think about it: it 
literally is what that interviewer was talking about: "just send a 
message 'out there' for some object to catch... hopefully". If the 
intended object does not receive the message, how will you know? Is 
exception handling working? Is errorDialog working? Did another object 
handle the message? How did that other object get in the message path?

So the continuum of languages maybe looks something like this:

xtalks <-> smalltalk <-> objective-c <-> C++ <-> Java <-> Eiffel

Dan Schafer, if you are reading this far, How did smalltalk deal with 
this issue, if it was a issue, in the eyes of customers getting large 
business apps in written in smalltalk? I'm sure they had to deal with 
it at some point as they tried to convince customers to use them 
instead of some C++ programmers or Fortran or Ada or something. It 
would be interesting to learn from the history of both smalltalk and 
xalks. So when we walk into the board room we can defend the reputation 
of 4GL scripting languages with acumen.

--
Alex Rice | Mindlube Software | http://mindlube.com


From revolution at jaedworks.com  Sun Feb  8 00:14:52 2004
From: revolution at jaedworks.com (Jeanne A. E. DeVoto)
Date: Sat, 7 Feb 2004 21:14:52 -0800
Subject: Tagging certain objects with contact, copyright, etc
In-Reply-To: <1645E744-59D7-11D8-9B4B-000A9567A3E6@swcp.com>
References: <1645E744-59D7-11D8-9B4B-000A9567A3E6@swcp.com>
Message-ID: <p06010293bc4b67b255d4@[10.0.1.3]>

At 6:35 PM -0700 2/7/04, Dar Scott wrote:
>I was thinking that for custom controls that require a supporting 
>library that some metadata would be allowed to come from the 
>library.  I have to think about whether this can still be done or 
>whether it is important.

A virtual property using a getProp handler could do this, something like:

   getProp metaData[myPropertyName] -- "metaData" is the custom prop set name
     if myPropertyName is "libVersion"
     then return the someCustomProp of stack "Library" -- goes and gets it
     else pass metaData -- let the engine return the specified custom prop
   end metaData

In this case, the "libVersion" property isn't actually stored in your 
object; calling its value goes and queries the library stack.

>>It also makes it easy to enforce the "read-only" status with a 
>>setProp handler, without interfering with other custom properties 
>>or having to list all the read-only properties in a handler.
>
>Well, before you brought the custom property set idea, for each 
>metadata property I was thinking of (1) a setProp to ignore the set 
>(or optionally to change the value) and optionally (2) a virtual 
>getProp.
>
>However, I'm not sure how to do the "read-only" for a custom 
>property set or if it is important.

Here's an example. In this handler, "metadata" is the name of the 
custom property set that you want to make read-only:

   setProp metaData[myPropertyName]
     -- The myPropertyName parameter contains the name of
     -- the property that's being set
     beep
     exit metaData -- don't pass the setProp
     -- because the setProp trigger isn't passed, it
     -- doesn't reach the engine, and so the custom
     -- property you specified isn't set
   end metadata

The nice thing about putting all the read-only properties in a custom 
property set is that you don't need a switch or if/then statement to 
single out the read-only properties from the writeable ones.
-- 
jeanne a. e. devoto ~ jaed at jaedworks.com
http://www.jaedworks.com

From alex at mindlube.com  Sun Feb  8 00:29:45 2004
From: alex at mindlube.com (Alex Rice)
Date: Sat, 7 Feb 2004 22:29:45 -0700
Subject: debugger freezes at new card?
In-Reply-To: <6281020E-59F1-11D8-B742-000A95DA60FA@adelphia.net>
References: <DFEC4E38-59EE-11D8-A6DB-000393C4760A@mindlube.com>
	<6281020E-59F1-11D8-B742-000A95DA60FA@adelphia.net>
Message-ID: <CE0CDEB8-59F7-11D8-A6DB-000393C4760A@mindlube.com>


On Feb 7, 2004, at 9:43 PM, Thomas McGrath III wrote:

> try
>
> on mouseUp
> 	put "hello"
> 	create card "New"
> 	put "world"
> end mouseUp
>

The debugger freezes at create card "new"

> new card is for outside support (HC or SC) and may not work with the 
> name empty?????

The TD docs say that the card name is optional. Also try this:

new card
put the name of it
see: card id 1051

The docs incorrectly say that the name of the card is empty, but it's 
actually set with the abbrev id of the card.

> the docs say to use
> create card "Name"
> or
> create  card
> which leaves the name of the card as empty.... (why do this though)

I don't know HC or SC

The mystery is it seems to be legal code, but the debugger freezes on 
it.

--
Alex Rice | Mindlube Software | http://mindlube.com


From bfr at nwlink.com  Sun Feb  8 00:47:09 2004
From: bfr at nwlink.com (Bruce Robertson)
Date: Sat, 07 Feb 2004 21:47:09 -0800
Subject: [OT] the first look at MTML, Yeah RunRev!
In-Reply-To: <F48F67AE-55A9-11D8-8FB6-000A95859272@earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <BC4B0D5D.1D1F6%bfr@nwlink.com>

> Hi Revolutionaries,
> 
> In case anyone is interested in the first look at this, here is a link
> to download site where I will try to sell it later:
> http://www.gizmotron.org/intuition/download.html

Interesting name coincidence. At Macworld, I was looking over the CAD
application Design Intuition by GizmoLab.
http://www.gizmolab.com/software/


From erikhans08 at yahoo.com  Sun Feb  8 00:47:29 2004
From: erikhans08 at yahoo.com (erik hansen)
Date: Sat, 7 Feb 2004 21:47:29 -0800 (PST)
Subject: The Bitstream VERA font, the first truely crossplatform solution
In-Reply-To: <97C37900-597C-11D8-8AD3-000A27B49A96@major-k.de>
Message-ID: <20040208054729.18026.qmail@web61103.mail.yahoo.com>

--- Klaus Major <klaus at major-k.de> wrote:
> > the fonts HAVE been released, you were just
> looking at the wrong place
> >
> > http://www.gnome.org/fonts/
> 
> just installed them here on OS X and they look
> great, even in 9 pt on a
> 1600*1200 screen :-)

> It definitvely IS readable, even in small sizes

if your app lets users print things
then what about printers?

is there a set of "usual suspects"
in the font community that can be
relied upon to be compatible with
most printers across most platforms

Erik Hansen?

=====
erik at erikhansen.org    http://www.erikhansen.org

__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Finance: Get your refund fast by filing online.
http://taxes.yahoo.com/filing.html

From alex at mindlube.com  Sun Feb  8 00:51:44 2004
From: alex at mindlube.com (Alex Rice)
Date: Sat, 7 Feb 2004 22:51:44 -0700
Subject: command-2 (previous) and command-3 (next), jumping by 2
In-Reply-To: <p06010208bc4ae5a30e68@[10.0.1.3]>
References: <139B6EC8-593A-11D8-9BA4-000393B64EDC@lumin.us>
	<p06010208bc4ae5a30e68@[10.0.1.3]>
Message-ID: <E0348274-59FA-11D8-A6DB-000393C4760A@mindlube.com>


On Feb 7, 2004, at 12:22 PM, Jeanne A. E. DeVoto wrote:

> Increasing the delay might work, as a workaround.

Oh god. Is this an engine bug or an IDE bug?  Surely "go next" isn't 
broken?

I can replicate the problem by doing this:

1) create a bunch of cards with _large_ referenced images (set the 
filename of image to ".../whatever.tif")
2) don't save the stack yet!
3) put this in the mainstack to keep track of where you are:

on openCard
  put the number of this card
end openCard

4) command-3, command-3 etc.

5) Forget it, now the problem isn't happening. It was a moment ago. I 
hate this intermittent kind of bug.

--
Alex Rice | Mindlube Software | http://mindlube.com


From alex at mindlube.com  Sun Feb  8 00:58:20 2004
From: alex at mindlube.com (Alex Rice)
Date: Sat, 7 Feb 2004 22:58:20 -0700
Subject: command-2 (previous) and command-3 (next), jumping by 2
In-Reply-To: <E0348274-59FA-11D8-A6DB-000393C4760A@mindlube.com>
References: <139B6EC8-593A-11D8-9BA4-000393B64EDC@lumin.us>
	<p06010208bc4ae5a30e68@[10.0.1.3]>
	<E0348274-59FA-11D8-A6DB-000393C4760A@mindlube.com>
Message-ID: <CC014F07-59FB-11D8-A6DB-000393C4760A@mindlube.com>


On Feb 7, 2004, at 10:51 PM, Alex Rice wrote:

> 5) Forget it, now the problem isn't happening. It was a moment ago. I 
> hate this intermittent kind of bug.

I have a hunch it's related to delays and loading images from disk. I 
have another project that doesn't use images very much at all, and I've 
never run into this bug on that project.

--
Alex Rice | Mindlube Software | http://mindlube.com


From depstein at att.net  Sun Feb  8 01:01:33 2004
From: depstein at att.net (depstein at att.net)
Date: Sun, 08 Feb 2004 06:01:33 +0000
Subject: Long combo box buttons
Message-ID: <020820040601.3288.44e1@att.net>

To "display more than a few lines in a combo box list":

set the menuLines of btn "myCombo" to the number of lines in btn "myCombo"

Works the same way as with option button lists.  Tested with Metacard 2.5 Mac OSX.

David Epstein

From jacque at hyperactivesw.com  Sun Feb  8 01:02:28 2004
From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay)
Date: Sun, 08 Feb 2004 00:02:28 -0600
Subject: Long combo box buttons
In-Reply-To: <ILEFKEGKNEFMMOILLJNOGEHPCEAA.davis.phil@comcast.net>
References: <ILEFKEGKNEFMMOILLJNOGEHPCEAA.davis.phil@comcast.net>
Message-ID: <4025D0F4.6010807@hyperactivesw.com>

On 2/7/04 10:05 PM, Phil Davis wrote:

> When you do this:
>    set the menuLines of btn "comboBox" to the number of lines in btn
> "comboBox"
> 
> Do you still not have enough display space for your list?

That's what I needed, thanks. I'd forgotten all about that property.

-- 
Jacqueline Landman Gay         |     jacque at hyperactivesw.com
HyperActive Software           |     http://www.hyperactivesw.com

From dsc at swcp.com  Sun Feb  8 01:36:59 2004
From: dsc at swcp.com (Dar Scott)
Date: Sat, 7 Feb 2004 23:36:59 -0700
Subject: Tagging certain objects with contact, copyright, etc
In-Reply-To: <p06010293bc4b67b255d4@[10.0.1.3]>
Message-ID: <325F88B2-5A01-11D8-9B4B-000A9567A3E6@swcp.com>


On Saturday, February 7, 2004, at 10:14 PM, Jeanne A. E. DeVoto wrote:

> In this case, the "libVersion" property isn't actually stored in your 
> object; calling its value goes and queries the library stack.
...
> The nice thing about putting all the read-only properties in a custom 
> property set is that you don't need a switch or if/then statement to 
> single out the read-only properties from the writeable ones.

Perfect and perfect.

Dar


From chrism at lumin.us  Sun Feb  8 01:42:53 2004
From: chrism at lumin.us (Christopher Mitchell)
Date: Sun, 8 Feb 2004 00:42:53 -0600
Subject: command-2 (previous) and command-3 (next), jumping by 2
In-Reply-To: <CC014F07-59FB-11D8-A6DB-000393C4760A@mindlube.com>
References: <139B6EC8-593A-11D8-9BA4-000393B64EDC@lumin.us>
	<p06010208bc4ae5a30e68@[10.0.1.3]>
	<E0348274-59FA-11D8-A6DB-000393C4760A@mindlube.com>
	<CC014F07-59FB-11D8-A6DB-000393C4760A@mindlube.com>
Message-ID: <05596FD3-5A02-11D8-B6A0-000393B64EDC@lumin.us>

Well, it could be that.. I'd say it is an IDE bug though - the stack 
I'm using has 4 cards on it and none of them have any referenced files 
(not referenced that would be displayed, there is a reference to audio 
but that is per button push).  It's basically like I have a stack with 
4 letters, one each on 4 cards.  And it does the skipping even when the 
stack has been open for a long time, giving plenty of time for the 
system to buffer whatever it may care to buffer.  The way I make it 
happen is to open the stack, open up the property inspector on any 
given item, and there it goes.

note that it is only when I do it via the keyboard, not when I select 
the menu item.

Yours,
Chris
On Feb 7, 2004, at 11:58 PM, Alex Rice wrote:

>
> On Feb 7, 2004, at 10:51 PM, Alex Rice wrote:
>
>> 5) Forget it, now the problem isn't happening. It was a moment ago. I 
>> hate this intermittent kind of bug.
>
> I have a hunch it's related to delays and loading images from disk. I 
> have another project that doesn't use images very much at all, and 
> I've never run into this bug on that project.
>
> --
> Alex Rice | Mindlube Software | http://mindlube.com
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>


From kray at sonsothunder.com  Sun Feb  8 01:42:03 2004
From: kray at sonsothunder.com (Ken Ray)
Date: Sun, 8 Feb 2004 00:42:03 -0600
Subject: Supercard Conversion
In-Reply-To: <p0602040abc4b5cb80692@[192.168.1.100]>
Message-ID: <010201c3ee0e$ad240e40$6601a8c0@LightningFlash>

I've never had any luck with the converter, and quite honestly, it is
better to use your SC project as a guideline and recreate it from
scratch. There's so much difference between the two that it would be
faster and more productive to do it this way unless your project is
extremely simple. 

Just my $0.02,

Ken Ray
Sons of Thunder Software
Email: kray at sonsothunder.com
Web Site: http://www.sonsothunder.com/ 

> -----Original Message-----
> From: use-revolution-bounces at lists.runrev.com 
> [mailto:use-revolution-bounces at lists.runrev.com] On Behalf Of 
> Stephen Quinn Barncard
> Sent: Saturday, February 07, 2004 9:26 PM
> To: How to use Revolution
> Subject: Supercard Conversion
> 
> 
> So I tried to use the Supercard project converter today... it's a 
> mess. It's a SC 3.x project and uses externals. It also had trouble 
> recognizing SC filetypes. I fixed the filetype part (same old OSX 
> problem) but then tried to run (what I think is an external) CopyFile 
> it failed.
> 
> has anyone upgraded or fixed it recently? Or do I have to find a OS 9 
> version and try that. At this point it's easier just to cut and paste 
> scripts.
> 
> 
> sqb
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com 
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-> revolution
> 



From chrism at lumin.us  Sun Feb  8 01:52:07 2004
From: chrism at lumin.us (Christopher Mitchell)
Date: Sun, 8 Feb 2004 00:52:07 -0600
Subject: command-2 (previous) and command-3 (next), jumping by 2
In-Reply-To: <CC014F07-59FB-11D8-A6DB-000393C4760A@mindlube.com>
References: <139B6EC8-593A-11D8-9BA4-000393B64EDC@lumin.us>
	<p06010208bc4ae5a30e68@[10.0.1.3]>
	<E0348274-59FA-11D8-A6DB-000393C4760A@mindlube.com>
	<CC014F07-59FB-11D8-A6DB-000393C4760A@mindlube.com>
Message-ID: <4FA9A248-5A03-11D8-B6A0-000393B64EDC@lumin.us>

Here's a stack and method by which I can replicate it:  see attachment.

Steps:

1) open stack jumpingbug.rev - don't click the stack.
2) immediately select Object->Card Inspector
3) hit command-3 ... It's jumping for me.
-------------- next part --------------


If this list is stripping attachments, which it probably should, the 
stack is up at

http://www.luminus.com/runrev/jumping/jumpingbug.rev

Yours,
Chris
On Feb 7, 2004, at 11:58 PM, Alex Rice wrote:

>
> On Feb 7, 2004, at 10:51 PM, Alex Rice wrote:
>
>> 5) Forget it, now the problem isn't happening. It was a moment ago. I 
>> hate this intermittent kind of bug.
>
> I have a hunch it's related to delays and loading images from disk. I 
> have another project that doesn't use images very much at all, and 
> I've never run into this bug on that project.
>
> --
> Alex Rice | Mindlube Software | http://mindlube.com
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>

From alex at mindlube.com  Sun Feb  8 02:05:21 2004
From: alex at mindlube.com (Alex Rice)
Date: Sun, 8 Feb 2004 00:05:21 -0700
Subject: command-2 (previous) and command-3 (next), jumping by 2
In-Reply-To: <4FA9A248-5A03-11D8-B6A0-000393B64EDC@lumin.us>
References: <139B6EC8-593A-11D8-9BA4-000393B64EDC@lumin.us>
	<p06010208bc4ae5a30e68@[10.0.1.3]>
	<E0348274-59FA-11D8-A6DB-000393C4760A@mindlube.com>
	<CC014F07-59FB-11D8-A6DB-000393C4760A@mindlube.com>
	<4FA9A248-5A03-11D8-B6A0-000393B64EDC@lumin.us>
Message-ID: <28D2F3D4-5A05-11D8-A6DB-000393C4760A@mindlube.com>


On Feb 7, 2004, at 11:52 PM, Christopher Mitchell wrote:

> Here's a stack and method by which I can replicate it:  see attachment.
>
> Steps:
>
> 1) open stack jumpingbug.rev - don't click the stack.
> 2) immediately select Object->Card Inspector
> 3) hit command-3 ... It's jumping for me.
>
>
> If this list is stripping attachments, which it probably should, the 
> stack is up at
>
> http://www.luminus.com/runrev/jumping/jumpingbug.rev

OK I tried your stack, and the first time I hit command-3, the _Card 
Inspector_ goes from Card Properties to Custom properties!!! (another 
bug?)
Subsequent command-3 will either skip 2 cards in jumpingbug.rev, or do 
nothing, or correctly go forward 1 card. It's totally erratic. Man I 
hope bugzilla gets back on line soon.

--
Alex Rice | Mindlube Software | http://mindlube.com


From pixelbird at interisland.net  Sun Feb  8 02:11:56 2004
From: pixelbird at interisland.net (Ken Norris)
Date: Sat, 07 Feb 2004 23:11:56 -0800
Subject: mission critical apps; was Re: cross platform ide
In-Reply-To: <20040208052132.7CE46930339@mail.runrev.com>
Message-ID: <BC4B213C.4D79%pixelbird@interisland.net>

Hi Alex,

> Date: Sat, 7 Feb 2004 22:15:48 -0700
> From: Alex Rice <alex at mindlube.com>
> Subject: mission critical apps; was Re: cross platform ide

> If the intended object does not receive the message, how will you know?
----------
I'm no expert with understanding all of your dissertation, but I fully
understand the concern. Still, it seems to me, however wild you leave your
message-passing in these types of languages is up to the scripter as much as
it is the tenets of the language.

We can plan exactly how and where we want to trap messages and provide
callbacks that doublecheck for a proper response, i.e., one that falls
within predetermined limits, can't we?

I think it depends more on how tight and modular you want your connections
to be than on language limitations. You want it rigid, you just plan on
keeping things on a single track, close off everything so when a message
falls through it can't be caught by anything other than its intended object.

Seems like you could build an Eiffel with Rev if you had to (not sure of the
need, though ;-)) or a random number generator for a lottery.

The flexibility of being rigid is an oxymoron with clout because you can't
make it go the other way ;-)

Ken N.


From slynch at richmond.sd38.bc.ca  Sun Feb  8 02:11:19 2004
From: slynch at richmond.sd38.bc.ca (Stewart Lynch)
Date: Sat, 07 Feb 2004 23:11:19 -0800
Subject: Page Breaks
Message-ID: <fc.00231a3c015c557900231a3c015c5579.15c55a1@richmond.sd38.bc.ca>

Is there a way to force a page break in a field?  Perhaps I am approaching
this the wrong way but this is what I want to do.
I have a number of cards in a stack that have a field on them that contain
contain variable amounts of text.  The way I understand the way Revolution
prints, I have to use revPrintField to print the entire contents of the
field.
What I am doing is gathering all of the content of these fields into a
single variable and then putting that data in to a single field on a
Report Stack that I have.
Is there any way to insert a page break between each of the different
pieces?


*******************************************
........
:  o/  : Stewart Lynch
: <|   : Director of Instruction, Technology and Information Services
: / >  : Richmond School District
:......:   Richmond, BC Canada
Internet: slynch at richmond.sd38.bc.ca
https://public.sd38.bc.ca/~slynch
tel. (604) 668-6128 fax: (604) 668-6006
*******************************************


From revolution at jaedworks.com  Sun Feb  8 02:52:21 2004
From: revolution at jaedworks.com (Jeanne A. E. DeVoto)
Date: Sat, 7 Feb 2004 23:52:21 -0800
Subject: re-locking a stack
In-Reply-To: <6FEA6FBA-59F5-11D8-9B4B-000A9567A3E6@swcp.com>
References: <6FEA6FBA-59F5-11D8-9B4B-000A9567A3E6@swcp.com>
Message-ID: <p0601029ebc4b76fceb0c@[10.0.1.3]>

At 10:12 PM -0700 2/7/04, Dar Scott wrote:
>How do I re-lock a stack after unlocking it?
>
>I tried setting the passkey to empty, but get an error.  I tried 
>setting the password again, but that did not work.  Am I stuck with 
>the stack unlocked for that session?

You need to close and remove it from memory, then re-open it. (But 
you don't have to quit the app - just make sure the stack file is 
purged from memory.)

I think there's a request in to let you turn password protection back 
on by setting the passKey to empty
-- 
jeanne a. e. devoto ~ jaed at jaedworks.com
http://www.jaedworks.com

From revolution at jaedworks.com  Sun Feb  8 02:41:41 2004
From: revolution at jaedworks.com (Jeanne A. E. DeVoto)
Date: Sat, 7 Feb 2004 23:41:41 -0800
Subject: debugger freezes at new card?
In-Reply-To: <CE0CDEB8-59F7-11D8-A6DB-000393C4760A@mindlube.com>
References: <DFEC4E38-59EE-11D8-A6DB-000393C4760A@mindlube.com>
 <6281020E-59F1-11D8-B742-000A95DA60FA@adelphia.net>
 <CE0CDEB8-59F7-11D8-A6DB-000393C4760A@mindlube.com>
Message-ID: <p060102b4bc4b96a570f7@[10.0.1.3]>

At 10:29 PM -0700 2/7/04, Alex Rice wrote:
>The TD docs say that the card name is optional. Also try this:
>
>new card
>put the name of it
>see: card id 1051
>
>The docs incorrectly say that the name of the card is empty, but 
>it's actually set with the abbrev id of the card.


Actually, the docs are correct here, although there is a nuance. The 
catch is that the name property never reports empty - if you call for 
the name of an object whose name is empty, it reports the ID instead.

Try it: set the name of an object to empty and then immediately query 
its name, and you'll get its ID instead. If you do it with a button, 
you can actually see that the button has no name.
-- 
jeanne a. e. devoto ~ jaed at jaedworks.com
http://www.jaedworks.com

From revolution at jaedworks.com  Sun Feb  8 02:35:33 2004
From: revolution at jaedworks.com (Jeanne A. E. DeVoto)
Date: Sat, 7 Feb 2004 23:35:33 -0800
Subject: command-2 (previous) and command-3 (next), jumping by 2
In-Reply-To: <E0348274-59FA-11D8-A6DB-000393C4760A@mindlube.com>
References: <139B6EC8-593A-11D8-9BA4-000393B64EDC@lumin.us>
 <p06010208bc4ae5a30e68@[10.0.1.3]>
 <E0348274-59FA-11D8-A6DB-000393C4760A@mindlube.com>
Message-ID: <p060102b5bc4b96fc851c@[10.0.1.3]>

At 10:51 PM -0700 2/7/04, Alex Rice wrote:
>>Increasing the delay might work, as a workaround.
>
>Oh god. Is this an engine bug or an IDE bug?  Surely "go next" isn't broken?

I'm pretty sure it's in the IDE. I haven't had it happen when using 
go next/go previous in a script.

>5) Forget it, now the problem isn't happening. It was a moment ago. 
>I hate this intermittent kind of bug.

Yes, isn't it fun (not ;-). Makes them damn hard to fix.
-- 
jeanne a. e. devoto ~ jaed at jaedworks.com
http://www.jaedworks.com

From mazzapaolo at libero.it  Sun Feb  8 03:16:52 2004
From: mazzapaolo at libero.it (Paolo Mazza)
Date: Sun, 8 Feb 2004 09:16:52 +0100
Subject: Forward on LibCGI 1.0 
Message-ID: <2676D73A-5A0F-11D8-B8A3-000393680A94@libero.it>

I have been using LibCGI 1.0 [ANN] for a while. It is great.
However my server refuse the Forward command to redirect remote users

libCGI_Forward "http://www.XXXXX" does not work ... any suggestion?

All the other handlers work.

Best regards,  Paolo


From revolution at jaedworks.com  Sun Feb  8 03:16:23 2004
From: revolution at jaedworks.com (Jeanne A. E. DeVoto)
Date: Sun, 8 Feb 2004 00:16:23 -0800
Subject: Page Breaks
In-Reply-To:  <fc.00231a3c015c557900231a3c015c5579.15c55a1@richmond.sd38.bc.ca>
References:  <fc.00231a3c015c557900231a3c015c5579.15c55a1@richmond.sd38.bc.ca>
Message-ID: <p060102b6bc4ba062b915@[10.0.1.3]>

At 11:11 PM -0800 2/7/04, Stewart Lynch wrote:
>Is there a way to force a page break in a field?  Perhaps I am approaching
>this the wrong way but this is what I want to do.
>I have a number of cards in a stack that have a field on them that contain
>contain variable amounts of text.  The way I understand the way Revolution
>prints, I have to use revPrintField to print the entire contents of the
>field.
>What I am doing is gathering all of the content of these fields into a
>single variable and then putting that data in to a single field on a
>Report Stack that I have.
>Is there any way to insert a page break between each of the different
>pieces?


It sounds like a better way might be to print each field separately:

   repeat with x = 1 to the number of cards -- print all cards
     revPrintField the long ID of field "My Field" of card x
   end repeat

Since each revPrintField command is a separate print job, each card 
starts on a new page.
-- 
jeanne a. e. devoto ~ jaed at jaedworks.com
http://www.jaedworks.com

From revolution at jaedworks.com  Sun Feb  8 03:21:23 2004
From: revolution at jaedworks.com (Jeanne A. E. DeVoto)
Date: Sun, 8 Feb 2004 00:21:23 -0800
Subject: The Bitstream VERA font, the first truely crossplatform
 solution
In-Reply-To: <1g8swjr.8w5ol11j9xfs2M%mcdomi@free.fr>
References: <1g8swjr.8w5ol11j9xfs2M%mcdomi@free.fr>
Message-ID: <p060102b7bc4ba106df89@[10.0.1.3]>

At 8:33 PM +0100 2/7/04, Dom wrote:
>About visually impaired persons: it's a pain for me to read those tiny
>chars in the Help ;->
>This ought to be a choice!

Sorry. It was difficult to design this in, because the way styles in 
fields are architected currently, any change to font, size, style, or 
color sets all of them. For example, if you have a field of 11-point 
Verdana, and you boldface one word, the word's font and size are set 
to Verdana 11 - so if you change the field to New York 18, for 
example, the boldfaced word will still be Verdana 11.

The documentation has a lot of style changes, so what this means in 
practice is that to change the doc font or size, you need to go 
through all the style runs on each of the thousands of cards in the 
documentation, and change the font and size for each of them. This 
can be done in a script but it takes too long to be practical as a 
preference setting. (But if the architecture changes to allow this to 
be fast, I'm sure it will be done.)
-- 
jeanne a. e. devoto ~ jaed at jaedworks.com
http://www.jaedworks.com

From alex at mindlube.com  Sun Feb  8 03:48:30 2004
From: alex at mindlube.com (Alex Rice)
Date: Sun, 8 Feb 2004 01:48:30 -0700
Subject: mission critical apps; was Re: cross platform ide
In-Reply-To: <BC4B213C.4D79%pixelbird@interisland.net>
References: <BC4B213C.4D79%pixelbird@interisland.net>
Message-ID: <91B1265A-5A13-11D8-A6DB-000393C4760A@mindlube.com>


On Feb 8, 2004, at 12:11 AM, Ken Norris wrote:
> We can plan exactly how and where we want to trap messages and provide
> callbacks that doublecheck for a proper response, i.e., one that falls
> within predetermined limits, can't we?

Formalize it and be able to explain it to managers and other 
programmers. Make a case study for runrev to post on their website!

I've been using runrev for a couple of years and I'm not writing code 
as well-planned as you describe. I'm still trying to get errorDialog 
working in my standalones, and figuring out why exception handling 
seems quirky sometimes.

I know someone who claims to write all his code so it's "mathematically 
tested to be correct" through some kind of elaborate unit testing (a C 
programmer actually, not runrev). That's one extreme. I don't know 
anyone else that has that kind of discipline or even if this person was 
really on the level.

With xtalks, and smalltalk, one just cannot know if a message is going 
to be accepted by an object until *runtime*. That is, run the app and 
see what happens. To an manager in charge of software for big $$ 
transactions, that translates into a craps shoot.

How do you ensure correctness in your app? Some languages have features 
like static typing, assertions, and robust exception handling, features 
that facilitate getting the correct, required behavior at runtime. How 
do you compensate for the absence of those features in your xtalk 
programming?

You've got xtalks at one end of the spectrum and and java, ada, eiffel, 
etc. at the other end of the spectrum. Just something to be aware of 
when you take runrev into corporate IT environments.

--
Alex Rice | Mindlube Software | http://mindlube.com


From opus.species at wanadoo.fr  Sun Feb  8 06:11:41 2004
From: opus.species at wanadoo.fr (opus.species at wanadoo.fr)
Date: Sun, 08 Feb 2004 12:11:41 +0100
Subject: Andy's comments and positioning...
In-Reply-To: <20040207175931.E09199303B3@mail.runrev.com>
References: <20040207175931.E09199303B3@mail.runrev.com>
Message-ID: <opr21tdrmb7hj683@smtp.wanadoo.fr>

> From: Dan Shafer <revdan at danshafer.com>
> So the education market is crucial, but it takes years to show an
> impact in the market.

My job is to produce educational CD-ROM, point of information and web 
sites. But i was appointed to teach multimedia programming for technicians 
(20-22 years old) and to post-graduate (23-25 years old) in the Sorbonne 
university in Paris.

Just my findings :

- my students didnt want to learn Metacard, they wanted to learn Director 
and Flash because they thought that they needed on their Curriculum the 
"best known professional tool". If we want to promote Revolution in these 
educational market, we need to say that Revolution is a very high level 
professional tool. All the arguments "it is also hobbyist oriented", "it 
is very easy to learn", "it is cheap" are counterproductive.
It is easy to explain to students that Director is an old fashioned 
product (Macromedia knows that and that's why they are relooking 
Director), but it is impossible not to teach Flash.

- Price was not a main concern.
The university had money to buy licences. From the university point of 
view, a good deal is "the professional product cost 1000$, that's OK, for 
the laboratory we need 10 copies with a 90% rebate". I guess that a 
classroom licence at 1000$ is better than 10 educational licences at 
100$ or 20 at 50$...
Anyway the students do not pay the license for their home computer ; they 
use "cracked" software ; the more expensive was the cracked software, the 
best for them ; they have better a 1000$ cracked software than a 50$ legal 
one. All microsoft, macromedia and adobe know that ; from a marketing 
point of view it is an investment to let students use cracked software 
because... as soon as they go in the professional life, the former 
students buy professional licences for the professional tools (in fact 
they at least pay for the upgrade of their cracked software :-).

- for non-english-speaking students, today, the "javascript" syntax = the 
"flash" syntax = the "." syntax = the "ECMA" syntax = "the standard syntax 
for programming" = is not more difficult than the xtalk syntax.
It is the same to teach and to learn "the property of myObjetc" than 
"myObject.property". The argument xTalk is easy was true 10 years ago, no 
more today.
I am sure of that even for 12-15 years french speaking kids ; i do not 
know for english-speaking kids.

- when we did produce real product, some of my students could experience 
and compare xTalk, Lingo and actionScript. For some projects they feel 
that Metacard was much more powerfull and much more easy than Flash ; on 
other projects they feel the contrary. Why ?

- as i said the problem is not the syntax. Today students have anyway to 
learn the "." syntax. And most of us on this list have to work with both 
syntaxes because we all need to use langages as javascript.

- the problem is the "object model". In the card metaphor, it is very 
simple to build cards and to put pre-existing objects on the cards. In 
Flash you can create your own objetcs (very fine and powerfull for a 
programmer !) but you are always confused between working with the object 
itself or with its instanciation on the screen.
The metaphor of Flash is much more "object oriented" than the metaphor of 
xCard. That's fine for the programmer, but designers or creators can 
express themselfs much easely with the card metaphor.
In fact the only students who preferred work with Flash than with Metacard 
where students who where more attracted by animation than by programming.
Some students where also happy with Flash because they downloaded sample 
animations from the web and just had to customize to their needs.

- if i had to design "the best creative environment for students from 12 
to 25", i would say :
* as a core engine MC or Revolution because they let express the 
creativity through an intuitive metaphor
* the xTalk set of objects, properties and functions because it is very 
powerfull, but the langage must evolve to allow both syntaxes, xTalk and 
ECMA
* Revolution must be able to embedd all medias = Quicktime (done), HTML 
(done via altBrowser.dll), Flash (native !), VideoPlayer, 3D player ; that 
could be done if Revolution can use all the plugin made for IExplorer and 
Mozilla.
* It is a hazardeous way to compare Flash and Revolution ; but it is easy 
to explain "Revolution is superior to Flash beacuse Revolution can embedd 
Flash".

Revolution appears today as the tool for the Macintosh community.
The argument "The Mac community was in difficulty since Hypercard died and 
because they need to deliver cross-platform : revolution is the solution" 
is a good one for MacWorld or AppleExpo, but not a good one for Windows or 
Linux users.

I would prefer an argument "Revolution, the professional tools what gives 
to you the best of the Mac, the best of Windows and the best of Linux".
It is easy to explain that Revolution give the "best of the Mac" from the 
*creativity* point of view.
It is easy to explain that Revolution give the "best of windows" from a 
*business* point of view because it allows to deliver to the 95% of 
windows users, faster and cheappier than with windows-only tools.
It is easy to explain that Revolution give the "best of linux" from a 
*technical* point of view because it can work as a CGI engine of Linux Web 
servers.

That was my 2 cents :-)

Claude Lemmel

From janschenkel at yahoo.com  Sun Feb  8 06:58:39 2004
From: janschenkel at yahoo.com (Jan Schenkel)
Date: Sun, 8 Feb 2004 03:58:39 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Puzzled about stack size
In-Reply-To: <a05100305bc4afbaeaafd@[66.81.137.137]>
Message-ID: <20040208115839.48284.qmail@web60503.mail.yahoo.com>

--- Jim Hurley <jhurley at infostations.com> wrote:
> 
> Rob,
> 
> Following your suggestion. I deleted one field, a
> table field that 
> showed empty. The file size dropped from 6 megs to
> 144 K. (By the 
> way, is there a way to get the file size from within
> RR?)
> 
> I restored the stack to "saved". In the message box
> I tried:
> 
>     put the number of lines in field "theField"
> 
> The result was zero.
> 
> I looked in the property  inspector for the field.
> The "contents" 
> showed empty. I then scrolled down to
> "table." There was a long pause and eventually all
> the data 
> reappeared. In the messages box the number of lines
> was now 13,234.
> 
> I selected the field and press delete. The field
> showed empty--again. 
> I scrolled down to "table" in the property inspector
> again and, 
> again, after a long pause, the data was resurrected.
> 
> Strange things are happening in table fields. This
> same thing happens 
> even for small amounts of data.
> 
> Jim
> 

Hi Jim,

The built-in table functionality uses several copies
of the data to accomplish its work :
  cREVTable["currentview"]
  cREVTable["formattedview"]

Unfortunately, these do not automatically get emptied
when you empty the field -- there is currently no way
to trap changes in the built-in properties of
cpntrols, so the RunRev crew couldn't even do it
unless the engine was changed.

And as you have noticed, the table functions will
resurrect the data if you set the text of the field to
empty.
The best way to make sure the content of a table field
is emptied, is by using the undocumented command
'revEmptyTable" :
--
  revEmptyTable "Foobar"
--

Hope this helped,

Jan Schenkel.

=====
"As we grow older, we grow both wiser and more foolish at the same time."  (La Rochefoucauld)

__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Finance: Get your refund fast by filing online.
http://taxes.yahoo.com/filing.html

From janschenkel at yahoo.com  Sun Feb  8 07:37:01 2004
From: janschenkel at yahoo.com (Jan Schenkel)
Date: Sun, 8 Feb 2004 04:37:01 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Database GUI logic 
In-Reply-To: <6F3189EE-58DA-11D8-8180-0030654C1E62@realtorsgroup.us>
Message-ID: <20040208123701.55085.qmail@web60503.mail.yahoo.com>

--- hershrev <hershbp at realtorsgroup.us> wrote:
> All functions work except update. (PostgreSQL)

Can you pinpoint under which circumstances it doesn't
work? A recipe or even a sample stack would help the
RunRev crew fix the problem.

> How do switch between query's ? In other words once
> I need a SELECT and 
> sometime I need an INSERT and so on.

If you need to execute a query without changing the
sql that is already in the query, use the undocumented
command
  revExecuteWithQuery <pQueryName>,<pSQL>
For example, suppose we have a query named "Snafu",
and we want to execute an SQL statement in the
database it is connected to :
--
  put "INSERT INTO Foo VALUES('BAR')" into tSQL
  revExecuteWithQuery "Snafu",tSQL
--

> Also the bottom line about the same code needs to be
> written as put 
> revSelect(or Form)Query(......).into field a put 
> revSelectQuery(....).into field b and so on and then
> to write an UPDATE 
> SQL on all concatenated fields with revExecuteSQL
> and with some playing 
> around its also portable to different db's.
> Or maybe to put all the info at once into a variable
> or an Array and 
> the select from it cell by cell?

I'm not sure I quite understand the first part of what
you're getting at, but it is always possible to save
data in an array or a custom property set as the user
makes changes.
Then at the click of a button, you can go through the
values in the array or custom property set, and build
an sql statement that you can then execute to make all
the changes at once.

Put the following into your card script :
--
on closeField
  # first check if it's a db-linked field
  if the cREVGeneral["database"] of the target is true
then
    # extract which field it is linked to
    put the cREVDatabase["linkcolumn"] of the target
into tColumnName
    # now save the new data in custom prop set
    set the uDBChanges[tColumnName] of me to the text
of the target
  end if
end closeField

on UpdateDB
  # save the currently selected custom prop set
  put the customPropertySet of me into tOldCPSet
  set the customPropertySet of me to "uDBChanges"
  # check which fields have been changed
  put the customKeys of me into tColumnNames
  # prepare data for the final sql statement
  repeat for each line tColumnName in tColumnNames
    put the uDBChanges[tColumnName] of me into
tNewData
    put tColumName & "=" & tNewData & comma after
tFieldsAndValuesList
  end repeat
  delete char -1 of tFieldsAndValuesList
  # exercise : get the primary keys and table
  put "FOO" into tTable
  put "foo_id" into tPrimaryKey
  put "12345" into tPKValue
  # now merge all this into the sql statement
  put merge("UPDATE [[tTable]] SET
[[tFieldsAndValuesList]] WHERE
[[tPrimaryKey]]=[[tPKValue]]") into tSQL
  # finally execute the sql statement
  revExecuteWithQuery "Snafu",tSQL
  # restore the selected custom prop set
  set the customPropertySet of me to tOldCPSet
end UpdateDB
--

I'll leave it as an exercise to react to mouseUp on
checkboxes, combo boxes, etc. While the above is
geared at using the built-in database-linked controls,
you can use this technique to collect data for UPDATE
and INSERT statements.
The sql statements built this way can then be executed
with the 'revExecuteSQL' command, as long as you feed
it an existing databaseID.

> Thanks hershrev
> 

Hope this helped,

Jan Schenkel.

=====
"As we grow older, we grow both wiser and more foolish at the same time."  (La Rochefoucauld)

__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Finance: Get your refund fast by filing online.
http://taxes.yahoo.com/filing.html

From Cubist at aol.com  Sun Feb  8 08:40:54 2004
From: Cubist at aol.com (Cubist at aol.com)
Date: Sun, 8 Feb 2004 08:40:54 EST
Subject: he Bitstream VERA font, the first truely crossplatform solution
Message-ID: <f.21f07107.2d579666@aol.com>

sez revolution at jaedworks.com:
>At 8:33 PM +0100 2/7/04, Dom wrote:
>>About visually impaired persons: it's a pain for me to read those tiny
>>chars in the Help ;->
>>This ought to be a choice!
>
>Sorry. It was difficult to design this in, because the way styles in 
>fields are architected currently, any change to font, size, style, or 
>color sets all of them. For example, if you have a field of 11-point 
>Verdana, and you boldface one word, the word's font and size are set 
>to Verdana 11 - so if you change the field to New York 18, for 
>example, the boldfaced word will still be Verdana 11.
>
>The documentation has a lot of style changes, so what this means in 
>practice is that to change the doc font or size, you need to go 
>through all the style runs on each of the thousands of cards in the 
>documentation, and change the font and size for each of them. This 
>can be done in a script but it takes too long to be practical as a 
>preference setting. (But if the architecture changes to allow this to 
>be fast, I'm sure it will be done.)
   What if you took the HTMLtext of a field, inserted {font="Vera"} and 
{/font="vera"} tags at either end, and set the HTMLtext of the field to the result 
of that operation? As long as there aren't any changes in *textFont* (just in 
textStyle or textSize) to worry about, this would appear to be a quick and 
easy solution. And if there *are* textFont changes to worry about, it might be 
workable anyway...
   Hope this helps...

From 3mcgrath at adelphia.net  Sun Feb  8 08:43:52 2004
From: 3mcgrath at adelphia.net (Thomas McGrath III)
Date: Sun, 8 Feb 2004 08:43:52 -0500
Subject: debugger freezes at new card?
In-Reply-To: <CE0CDEB8-59F7-11D8-A6DB-000393C4760A@mindlube.com>
References: <DFEC4E38-59EE-11D8-A6DB-000393C4760A@mindlube.com>
	<6281020E-59F1-11D8-B742-000A95DA60FA@adelphia.net>
	<CE0CDEB8-59F7-11D8-A6DB-000393C4760A@mindlube.com>
Message-ID: <D4AD6A80-5A3C-11D8-B742-000A95DA60FA@adelphia.net>

Alex,

Yes, I see that. I let it run all night and went to sleep. It did 
eventually finish but I don't know when. I had the message watcher open 
but it just started up again after I clicked in REV this morning so I 
don't know how long it actually took.

Certainly it is a bug.

Tom

On Feb 8, 2004, at 12:29 AM, Alex Rice wrote:

>
> On Feb 7, 2004, at 9:43 PM, Thomas McGrath III wrote:
>
>> try
>>
>> on mouseUp
>> 	put "hello"
>> 	create card "New"
>> 	put "world"
>> end mouseUp
>>
>
> The debugger freezes at create card "new"
>
>> new card is for outside support (HC or SC) and may not work with the 
>> name empty?????
>
> The TD docs say that the card name is optional. Also try this:
>
> new card
> put the name of it
> see: card id 1051
>
> The docs incorrectly say that the name of the card is empty, but it's 
> actually set with the abbrev id of the card.
>
>> the docs say to use
>> create card "Name"
>> or
>> create  card
>> which leaves the name of the card as empty.... (why do this though)
>
> I don't know HC or SC
>
> The mystery is it seems to be legal code, but the debugger freezes on 
> it.
>
> --
> Alex Rice | Mindlube Software | http://mindlube.com
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>
>

Thomas J. McGrath III
SCS
1000 Killarney Dr.
Pittsburgh, PA 15234
412-885-8541


From jhurley at infostations.com  Sun Feb  8 08:45:48 2004
From: jhurley at infostations.com (Jim Hurley)
Date: Sun, 8 Feb 2004 05:45:48 -0800
Subject: Puzzled about stack size
In-Reply-To: <20040208115949.2AB929300A9@mail.runrev.com>
References: <20040208115949.2AB929300A9@mail.runrev.com>
Message-ID: <a05100300bc4beae0ea57@[66.81.137.137]>

>
>These table fields are my new Zen Koan. Very ephemeral.
>
>Try this:
>
>1) Create a stack with a single field.
>2) Go to its property inspector and under "table" check the "table
>object" and "cell editing" boxes.
>3) Put something in cells a1, a2, b1 and b2 (Excel notation.) Maybe
>just four letters, a,b,c,d.
>4) In the message box type: put empty into field 1 -- As expected,
>the data disappears
>5) Ah, but it's not gone. Go to the property inspector again and
>select "table".
>6) Voila, the data returns.
>
>It appears that table fields have a dual personality. (Mac OS 9, RR 2.1.2)
>
>Jim


>Richard Gaskin wrote:
>
>Indeed they do.  See the Rev custom property sets installed in the object.
>
>If you need tabular display but nothing else, you can turn off the Table
>option and just set the hGrid and vGrid properties to display tab-delimited
>text in a columnar format.

Jan Schenkel wrote:

>
>Hi Jim,
>
>The built-in table functionality uses several copies
>of the data to accomplish its work :
>   cREVTable["currentview"]
>   cREVTable["formattedview"]
>
>Unfortunately, these do not automatically get emptied
>when you empty the field -- there is currently no way
>to trap changes in the built-in properties of
>cpntrols, so the RunRev crew couldn't even do it
>unless the engine was changed.
>
>And as you have noticed, the table functions will
>resurrect the data if you set the text of the field to
>empty.
>The best way to make sure the content of a table field
>is emptied, is by using the undocumented command
>'revEmptyTable" :
>--
>   revEmptyTable "Foobar"
>--
>
>Hope this helped,
>
>Jan Schenkel.


Jan and Richard,

Well that clears up that mystery. I have to return to 
one-hand-clapping for my Zen Koan.

Still very strange, and I never would have guessed on my own. Thanks much.

(I will have to put revEmptyTable in my folder of the inscrutable.)

Jim

From 3mcgrath at adelphia.net  Sun Feb  8 08:50:14 2004
From: 3mcgrath at adelphia.net (Thomas McGrath III)
Date: Sun, 8 Feb 2004 08:50:14 -0500
Subject: command-2 (previous) and command-3 (next), jumping by 2
In-Reply-To: <E0348274-59FA-11D8-A6DB-000393C4760A@mindlube.com>
References: <139B6EC8-593A-11D8-9BA4-000393B64EDC@lumin.us>
	<p06010208bc4ae5a30e68@[10.0.1.3]>
	<E0348274-59FA-11D8-A6DB-000393C4760A@mindlube.com>
Message-ID: <B8EFE846-5A3D-11D8-B742-000A95DA60FA@adelphia.net>

I have a stack with buttons to cards with large graphics in each card. 
There are 500 graphics  being displayed one at a time. When I use "go 
stack" it sometimes sends one of the 'open' messages twice!!! This did 
not happen when the number of graphics was smaller. SO during 
development (as I added more cards with graphics) the 'go stack' which 
calls 'preOpen' and 'Open' card eventually started a strange behavior 
of opening the new stack but jumping back to the stack that the button 
was on.
I think my problem is related to yours via the 'openCard' message path.

Hope we can figure this one out.

TOm

On Feb 8, 2004, at 12:51 AM, Alex Rice wrote:

>
> On Feb 7, 2004, at 12:22 PM, Jeanne A. E. DeVoto wrote:
>
>> Increasing the delay might work, as a workaround.
>
> Oh god. Is this an engine bug or an IDE bug?  Surely "go next" isn't 
> broken?
>
> I can replicate the problem by doing this:
>
> 1) create a bunch of cards with _large_ referenced images (set the 
> filename of image to ".../whatever.tif")
> 2) don't save the stack yet!
> 3) put this in the mainstack to keep track of where you are:
>
> on openCard
>  put the number of this card
> end openCard
>
> 4) command-3, command-3 etc.
>
> 5) Forget it, now the problem isn't happening. It was a moment ago. I 
> hate this intermittent kind of bug.
>
> --
> Alex Rice | Mindlube Software | http://mindlube.com
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>
>

Thomas J. McGrath III
SCS
1000 Killarney Dr.
Pittsburgh, PA 15234
412-885-8541


From JimCarwardine at OwnYourFuture-net.com  Sun Feb  8 09:39:52 2004
From: JimCarwardine at OwnYourFuture-net.com (Jim Carwardine)
Date: Sun, 08 Feb 2004 10:39:52 -0400
Subject: User Coloured Text
Message-ID: <BC4BC277.500C%JimCarwardine@OwnYourFuture-net.com>

Hi Folks... I can?t find any archived entries on allowing a user, via a
script, to colourize text using a colour picker palette.  Can anyone point
me to something like that?  Jim
-- 

OYF is... Highly resourceful people working together.
<http://www.OwnYourFuture-net.com>

Own Your Future Consulting Services Limited,
1959 Upper Water Street, Suite 407, Halifax, Nova Scotia. B3J 3N2
Info Line: 902-823-2477, Phone: 902-823-2339. Fax: 902-823-2139





From jhurley at infostations.com  Sun Feb  8 09:43:36 2004
From: jhurley at infostations.com (Jim Hurley)
Date: Sun, 8 Feb 2004 06:43:36 -0800
Subject: Puzzled about stack size
In-Reply-To: <20040208010041.1D0C893032E@mail.runrev.com>
References: <20040208010041.1D0C893032E@mail.runrev.com>
Message-ID: <a05100301bc4bee3bb424@[66.81.134.83]>


>  >5) Ah, but it's not gone. Go to the property inspector again and
>  >select "table".
>  >6) Voila, the data returns.
>
>Rob Cozens wrote:
>
>Is it still there if you close & reopen the stack at that point, Jim?
>
>The AB's control list does not always seem to keep up with additions
>and deletions.  Often if I select a different card in the same stack
>(from the AB) and then reselect the original card, a deleted control
>will disappear or a newly added control will be recognized.
>--
>
>Rob Cozens
>CCW, Serendipity Software Company
>http://www.oenolog.net/who.htm

Rob,

Yes it remains...but hidden. It is necessary to go to the property 
inspector and select table and then the table data returns. The 
mystery has been cleared up--more or less-- by Richard and Jan. To 
clear the data it is not sufficient to "put empty into field 
"theField", or even to select all the text and press the delete key.

I tried Jan's suggestion of using the undocumented command 
revEmptyTable, but even that didn't  work. (Anybody else have my 
problem of typing Emtpy for Empty and wondering why it doesn't work? 
Something like teh and the.)


One might also turn off the table feature and then delete the data.

This didn't work on my problem field.  I think RR is choking on the 
amount of data in the field (6 megs), although it is able to handle 
the data otherwise. Or perhaps I did not wait long enough (a couple 
of minutes) for RR to process the data. Desperate times call for 
desperate measures, and so I deleted the field itself and built a new 
one with the same name. And, since I don't really need the tabular 
features, I followed Richard suggestion and just set the tabs.

Jim

From mcdomi at free.fr  Sun Feb  8 09:45:39 2004
From: mcdomi at free.fr (Dom)
Date: Sun, 8 Feb 2004 15:45:39 +0100
Subject: [ANN] RevoBlog
Message-ID: <1g8u9nz.1sntk2n1d6nvniM%mcdomi@free.fr>

Je viens d'ouvrir un site Web ? propos de Revolution ? la mode "Blog"
:-)

Just created a web site dedicated to Revolution in a "Blog" manner :-)

http://revoblog.free.fr/

Soyez patient : il y a quelques "ralentissements" chez free actuellement
;-)

Be patient: there are some slowdown by free.fr for now ;-)

Ne vous attendez pas ? de hautes consid?rations programmistiques, ce
sont juste des notes et des remarques faites au jour le jour... comme un
Blog, quoi !

Don't think to a high level programming skills -- there are only daily
(or so) notes... just as a Blog!

-- 
Vous parlez fran?ais ? faites un tour sur le groupe francophone !
revolutionfr-subscribe at yahoogroupes.fr

From mcdomi at free.fr  Sun Feb  8 09:45:40 2004
From: mcdomi at free.fr (Dom)
Date: Sun, 8 Feb 2004 15:45:40 +0100
Subject: The Bitstream VERA font, the first truely crossplatform solution
In-Reply-To: <p060102b7bc4ba106df89@[10.0.1.3]>
Message-ID: <1g8ufop.1as4gdo41z7alM%mcdomi@free.fr>

Jeanne A. E. DeVoto <revolution at jaedworks.com> wrote:

> Sorry. It was difficult to design this in, because the way styles in 
> fields are architected currently, any change to font, size, style, or
> color sets all of them. For example, if you have a field of 11-point 
> Verdana, and you boldface one word, the word's font and size are set 
> to Verdana 11 - so if you change the field to New York 18, for 
> example, the boldfaced word will still be Verdana 11.

I tried via the Application Browser, and it was a pain -- and absolutely
unreliable ;->
Anyway, how about to make the textsize *relative* (to a stack default
textsize) a la HTML (<font size="+1">) and not *absolute*?

I went around this by *exporting* the html text / text of fields to
another stack:

=====
on mouseup
  lock screen
  lock messages
  lock recent
    
  put number of cds of stack "cookbook" into nbc
  
  repeat with c =1 to nbc
    put fld "topic" of cd c of stack "cookbook" into fld "topic"
    put fld "problem" of cd c of stack "cookbook" into fld "problem"
    put fld "code" of cd c of stack "cookbook" into fld "code"
    set the htmltext of fld "discussion" to the htmltext of fld
"discussion" of cd c of stack "cookbook"
    select text of fld "discussion"
    set the textsize of the selection to "16"
    select empty
    create card
    set the cursor to busy
  end repeat
end mouseup
=====

Not to say that the exported stack as not any fancy navigation handler
that reside in the original help ;->

> The documentation has a lot of style changes, so what this means in 
> practice is that to change the doc font or size, you need to go 
> through all the style runs on each of the thousands of cards in the 
> documentation, and change the font and size for each of them. This 
> can be done in a script but it takes too long to be practical as a 
> preference setting. (But if the architecture changes to allow this to
> be fast, I'm sure it will be done.)

;-)

Also, Fr?d?ric RINALDI translated the RR 1.1.1 doc in french, and added
a welcomed button to export the doc as html files (or text, or RTF).
And, viewed in a browser, ti's a matter of CMD-+ to enlarge a font ;-)

-- 
Vous parlez fran?ais ? faites un tour sur le groupe francophone !
revolutionfr-subscribe at yahoogroupes.fr

From rcozens at pon.net  Sun Feb  8 08:56:34 2004
From: rcozens at pon.net (Rob Cozens)
Date: Sun, 8 Feb 2004 06:56:34 -0700
Subject: Compression and Decompression of multiple files
In-Reply-To: <BC4AF33F.3CE54%ambassador@fourthworld.com>
References: <BC4AF33F.3CE54%ambassador@fourthworld.com>
Message-ID: <a05100300bc4bef12ac50@[66.52.165.20]>

>Not that I'm aware of, but there are several separate ones for every major
>OS.

Richard, et al:

Unless there is ONE (TAR archiver & compression utility) that works 
cross all Revolution platforms, TAR does not meet my goal for ONE 
compression/archival utility that can be used to transfer stacks & 
supporting files to every Revolution developer.
-- 

Rob Cozens
CCW, Serendipity Software Company
http://www.oenolog.net/who.htm

"And I, which was two fooles, do so grow three;
Who are a little wise, the best fooles bee."

from "The Triple Foole" by John Donne (1572-1631)

From rcozens at pon.net  Sun Feb  8 09:07:27 2004
From: rcozens at pon.net (Rob Cozens)
Date: Sun, 8 Feb 2004 07:07:27 -0700
Subject: mission critical apps; was Re: cross platform ide
In-Reply-To: <DB3FD718-59F5-11D8-A6DB-000393C4760A@mindlube.com>
References: <1ab.1f93992a.2d4749e5@aol.com>
 <C413053A-508C-11D8-B465-000393C4760A@mindlube.com>
 <DB3FD718-59F5-11D8-A6DB-000393C4760A@mindlube.com>
Message-ID: <a05100302bc4bf2847ba0@[66.52.165.20]>

>xtalk (transcript) however is a total free-for-all. As messages are 
>fired off, any handler could dynamically change the message path via 
>front scripts, back scripts, insert scripts, etc. Think about it: it 
>literally is what that interviewer was talking about: "just send a 
>message 'out there' for some object to catch... hopefully". If the 
>intended object does not receive the message, how will you know? Is 
>exception handling working? Is errorDialog working? Did another 
>object handle the message? How did that other object get in the 
>message path?

So Alex, the bottom line is Transcript gives the developer more 
options and more options = more opportunity for developer error?

If the intended objet does not receive the message, the programmer screwed up.
-- 

Rob Cozens
CCW, Serendipity Software Company
http://www.oenolog.net/who.htm

"And I, which was two fooles, do so grow three;
Who are a little wise, the best fooles bee."

from "The Triple Foole" by John Donne (1572-1631)

From ambassador at fourthworld.com  Sun Feb  8 10:29:57 2004
From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin)
Date: Sun, 08 Feb 2004 07:29:57 -0800
Subject: Compression and Decompression of multiple files
In-Reply-To: <a05100300bc4bef12ac50@[66.52.165.20]>
Message-ID: <BC4B95F5.3CEA6%ambassador@fourthworld.com>

Rob Cozens wrote:

>> Not that I'm aware of, but there are several separate ones for every major
>> OS.
> 
> Richard, et al:
> 
> Unless there is ONE (TAR archiver & compression utility) that works
> cross all Revolution platforms, TAR does not meet my goal for ONE
> compression/archival utility that can be used to transfer stacks &
> supporting files to every Revolution developer.

What is the benefit of the various unTAR utilities (most of which are
pre-installed) having the same name?

-- 
 Richard Gaskin 
 Fourth World Media Corporation
 ___________________________________________________________
 Ambassador at FourthWorld.com       http://www.FourthWorld.com


From slynch at richmond.sd38.bc.ca  Sun Feb  8 10:34:05 2004
From: slynch at richmond.sd38.bc.ca (Stewart Lynch)
Date: Sun, 08 Feb 2004 07:34:05 -0800
Subject: Page Breaks
In-Reply-To: <p060102b6bc4ba062b915@[10.0.1.3]>
References: <p060102b6bc4ba062b915@[10.0.1.3]>
Message-ID: <fc.00231a3c015c5d1d00231a3c015c5579.15c5d20@richmond.sd38.bc.ca>

"Jeanne A. E. DeVoto" <revolution at jaedworks.com> writes:
>It sounds like a better way might be to print each field separately:
>
>   repeat with x = 1 to the number of cards -- print all cards
>     revPrintField the long ID of field "My Field" of card x
>   end repeat
>
>Since each revPrintField command is a separate print job, each card 
>starts on a new page.


This s true, but I would rather have a single print job so my question
still remains.  Is there a way to force a page break in a field?


*******************************************
........
:  o/  : Stewart Lynch
: <|   : Director of Instruction, Technology and Information Services
: / >  : Richmond School District
:......:   Richmond, BC Canada
Internet: slynch at richmond.sd38.bc.ca
https://public.sd38.bc.ca/~slynch
tel. (604) 668-6128 fax: (604) 668-6006
*******************************************


From gizmotron at earthlink.net  Sun Feb  8 11:06:31 2004
From: gizmotron at earthlink.net (Mark Brownell)
Date: Sun, 8 Feb 2004 08:06:31 -0800
Subject: [OT] the first look at MTML, Yeah RunRev!
In-Reply-To: <BC4B0D5D.1D1F6%bfr@nwlink.com>
Message-ID: <C267DC66-5A50-11D8-A648-000A95859272@earthlink.net>


On Saturday, February 7, 2004, at 09:47  PM, Bruce Robertson wrote:

>> Hi Revolutionaries,
>>
>> In case anyone is interested in the first look at this, here is a link
>> to download site where I will try to sell it later:
>> http://www.gizmotron.org/intuition/download.html
>
> Interesting name coincidence. At Macworld, I was looking over the CAD
> application Design Intuition by GizmoLab.
> http://www.gizmolab.com/software/

Isn't that interesting. A harmonic convergence of Gizmos. I picked up 
the Gizmotron Graphics name back in 1997 while trying to come up with a 
name in about ten seconds while ordering my first web hosting. I needed 
something that worked with g-g and I saw an old music-instrument 
stomp-box label stuck to one of my travel cases. It was for the 
Gizmotron. I liked the sound of gizmotron graphics. I woke up a few 
weeks ago with the idea of "Into-ition," because you use this thing to 
put things you would like to remember into it, the play on words.

Mark


From rcozens at pon.net  Sun Feb  8 10:02:45 2004
From: rcozens at pon.net (Rob Cozens)
Date: Sun, 8 Feb 2004 08:02:45 -0700
Subject: Compression and Decompression of multiple files
In-Reply-To: <BC4B95F5.3CEA6%ambassador@fourthworld.com>
References: <BC4B95F5.3CEA6%ambassador@fourthworld.com>
Message-ID: <a05100305bc4bffeca1ec@[66.52.165.217]>

>What is the benefit of the various unTAR utilities (most of which are
>pre-installed) having the same name?

That was what I was hoping you would tell me, Richard.     :{`)
-- 

Rob Cozens
CCW, Serendipity Software Company
http://www.oenolog.net/who.htm

"And I, which was two fooles, do so grow three;
Who are a little wise, the best fooles bee."

from "The Triple Foole" by John Donne (1572-1631)

From rcozens at pon.net  Sun Feb  8 10:14:29 2004
From: rcozens at pon.net (Rob Cozens)
Date: Sun, 8 Feb 2004 08:14:29 -0700
Subject: Page Breaks
In-Reply-To:  <fc.00231a3c015c5d1d00231a3c015c5579.15c5d20@richmond.sd38.bc.ca>
References: <p060102b6bc4ba062b915@[10.0.1.3]>
 <fc.00231a3c015c5d1d00231a3c015c5579.15c5d20@richmond.sd38.bc.ca>
Message-ID: <a05100306bc4c00a6cd98@[66.52.165.217]>

>This s true, but I would rather have a single print job so my question
>still remains.  Is there a way to force a page break in a field?

Stewart:

On Macs (assuming four component fields, "Component Field 1" through 
"Component Field 4"):

	put numToChar(12) into formFeed
	put (field "Component Field 1") into textToPrint
	repeat with x = 2 to 4
		put formFeed&(field ("Component Field")&&x) after textToPrint
	end repeat
	revPrintReport textToPrint

If form feed is not numTohar(12) on other platforms, this will have 
to be adjusted.
-- 

Rob Cozens
CCW, Serendipity Software Company
http://www.oenolog.net/who.htm

"And I, which was two fooles, do so grow three;
Who are a little wise, the best fooles bee."

from "The Triple Foole" by John Donne (1572-1631)

From sims at ezpzapps.com  Sun Feb  8 11:49:25 2004
From: sims at ezpzapps.com (sims)
Date: Sun, 8 Feb 2004 17:49:25 +0100
Subject: text display - language problem
Message-ID: <a05200f2dbc4c158fb5cf@[10.0.0.1]>

  Keiji Goto wrote to sims the other day:
>
>My name is Keiji Goto, a professional writer, writing
>books and articles for various Japanese magazines.
<snip>
>but currently the program does
>not display Japanese characters properly. I can
>enter Japanese characters all right
<snip>
>As is, not capable of handling Japanese
>characters properly, I cannot review the program
>and I think it is too pity that Japanese Mac users
>cannot use your program and also your program
should deserve more exposure in Japan too.

Keiji is referring to one of my shareware apps, I'd like to be making
income from Japan also but he has a problem with text display.

Keiji can enter Japanese characters into fields in my app but that data
gets saved in a user property. Upon opening, the app takes data from
user properties and then populates the fields (the user clicks a scrollingList
fld to select the data he/she wants displayed).

How can I get that data (from a user prop) to display in a fld in any
language? If they input English then English, Japanese then Japanese, French
then French.  Help!

atb

sims




From rcozens at pon.net  Sun Feb  8 11:01:41 2004
From: rcozens at pon.net (Rob Cozens)
Date: Sun, 8 Feb 2004 09:01:41 -0700
Subject: mission critical apps; was Re: cross platform ide
Message-ID: <a05100309bc4c0cb3a24f@[66.52.165.217]>

>>So Alex, the bottom line is Transcript gives the developer more 
>>options and more options = more opportunity for developer error?

Alex, et al:

Upon reflection, I will acknowledge that message path issues were one 
of the most difficult parts of my transition from PL/1, C, & Pascal 
to HyperTalk.

However, after a decade of working with X-Talks, I'm MUCH more 
comfortable with message passing than, for example, C syntax.
-- 

Rob Cozens
CCW, Serendipity Software Company
http://www.oenolog.net/who.htm

"And I, which was two fooles, do so grow three;
Who are a little wise, the best fooles bee."

from "The Triple Foole" by John Donne (1572-1631)

From JimCarwardine at OwnYourFuture-net.com  Sun Feb  8 12:44:35 2004
From: JimCarwardine at OwnYourFuture-net.com (Jim Carwardine)
Date: Sun, 08 Feb 2004 13:44:35 -0400
Subject: User Coloured Text
In-Reply-To: <BC4BC277.500C%JimCarwardine@OwnYourFuture-net.com>
Message-ID: <BC4BEDC2.5020%JimCarwardine@OwnYourFuture-net.com>

Found it... ForegroundColor property... Still getting used to Rev... :-)
Jim

on 2/8/04 10:39 AM, Jim Carwardine wrote:

> Hi Folks... I can?t find any archived entries on allowing a user, via a
> script, to colourize text using a colour picker palette.  Can anyone point
> me to something like that?  Jim

-- 

OYF is... Highly resourceful people working together.
<http://www.OwnYourFuture-net.com>

Own Your Future Consulting Services Limited,
1959 Upper Water Street, Suite 407, Halifax, Nova Scotia. B3J 3N2
Info Line: 902-823-2477, Phone: 902-823-2339. Fax: 902-823-2139




From mark at runrev.com  Sun Feb  8 13:37:14 2004
From: mark at runrev.com (Mark Chia)
Date: 08 Feb 2004 18:37:14 +0000
Subject: Bug Database Changes Completed - PLEASE READ!
Message-ID: <1076265434.3125.15.camel@voyager>

Hello Revolutionaries!

The changes to the Bugzilla have been completed and tested. It is 
important for everyone to read what has changed and to get an 
understanding of how this impacts on the management of bugs. Therefore, 
please read this message in its entirety.

************** IMPORTANT: PLEASE READ **************
Bugzilla sends email to people when the Resolution of a bug has changed.
Since we have made changes to the terms used in some of the Resolutions
(such as "INVALID" is now "NOT_A_BUG"), Bugzilla will automatically send
out emails to people informing them of the change of Resolution, even if
the bug has *already been resolved*. For example, if a person had a bug
from a long time ago that got resolved as "INVALID", that person will
receive an email on that bug letting them know the Resolution was
changed to "NOT_A_BUG". So please be prepared for getting emails from
Bugzilla on these initial Resolution changes, which you can ignore or
delete.
****************************************************

Here are the changes that have been made:


Statuses
--------
PENDING has been added to the list of Statuses, and is used to 
distinguish between bugs that have been submitted, but not yet 
reviewed (UNCONFIRMED) and those that have been reviewed, but 
cannot be assigned yet due to lack of information, a reproducible 
recipe, etc. (PENDING). 

PENDING inserts itself into the workflow between UNCONFIRMED and 
NEW. For those of you who may be unfamiliar with the workflow on 
the bugs, or would like to refresh your memory, look at the 
bottom of this email for a walkthrough on the bug process.

Statuses now in the system:
     UNCONFIRMED
     PENDING
     NEW
     ASSIGNED
     REOPENED
     RESOLVED
     VERIFIED
     CLOSED


Resolutions
-----------
- The Resolutions of REMIND and LATER have been removed (for more info
on
LATER, see "Target Milestones", below). 
- INVALID is now NOT_A_BUG
- WONTFIX is now ISNT_FIXABLE
- WORKSFORME is now CANT_REPRODUCE
- MOVED has been kept for future use.

Resolutions now in the system:
     FIXED
     NOT_A_BUG
     ISNT_FIXABLE
     DUPLICATE
     CANT_REPRODUCE
     MOVED 
     --- (not resolved)


Target Milestones
-----------------
Starting now, we will be using the Target Milestones to indicate in what
version a particular bug was resolved. So any bugs that we are fixing
for 2.2 will get the Target of "2.2". Bugs that were previously marked
with a status of LATER (indicating that we want to fix it, but just not
in the current build) have been changed to a status of ASSIGNED, with a
resolution of --- and a Target Milestone of "Future". This will allow us
to quickly find the bugs that we could not address in the current 
development cycle. Once we address them, we will change the Target 
Milestone to the version number in which it was resolved (and of course 
set a resolution).

************** IMPORTANT: PLEASE READ **************
Please note that this is currently an option menu, and *can* 
be changed by people who edit their own bugs. WE STRONGLY URGE YOU TO 
LEAVE THIS OPTION MENU ALONE (for obvious reasons). We want to have a 
consistent way of being able to identify when bugs have been fixed, and 
this looks like the best way to do this.
****************************************************


Help Files
----------
We have also modified the help files that discuss the Statuses,
Resolutions and Target Milestones so that if you need to look at the
help, it will correspond to the actual system yoou're using. If you
happen to find a place that we might have missed, please let us know and
we will get those fixed.


Bug Workflow
------------
Here's the workflow for the new system:

1) User submits a bug. Bugzilla automatically sets the status to 
   UNCONFIRMED, and the resolution to "---".

2) QA person looks at the bug. 
   2a) If it is just looked at but not responded to in any way, the 
        status is left as UNCONFIRMED.
   2b) If more information is needed, a comment is added to the bug 
        and the status is changed to PENDING. 
   2c) If there's enough information, an attempt to reproduce the 
        bug is made.
       2c-i)  If it can be reproduced, the status is changed to NEW 
               and it is assigned to someone to fix.
       2c-ii) If it cannot be reproduced, a comment is added to the 
               bug to ask the original submitter if they can come 
               up with another recipe (since we couldn't reproduce 
               it) and the status remains PENDING. If we ever *can* 
               reproduce it, we act as (2c-i) above. If we can 
               *never* reproduce it, we change the status to 
               RESOLVED and the resolution to CANT_REPRODUCE. The 
               Target Milestone is then set to the targetted 
               release version.
   2d) If it is a misunderstanding by the user and the bug is really 
        not a bug, the status is set to RESOLVED, and the resolution
        is set to NOT_A_BUG. The Target Milestone is then set to 
        the targetted release version.
   2e) If the bug is recognized and determined to be a duplicate of 
        an existing bug, a comment is entered pointing to the 
        duplicate, the status is set to RESOLVED, and the resolution
        is set to DUPLICATE. The Target Milestone is then set to 
        the targetted release version.

3) Bugs marked NEW are reviewed by the person to whom they were 
   assigned. If the assignee feels that they are the right person to 
   fix the bug, they change the status of the bug to ASSIGNED. If 
   the assignee feels they are *not* the right person to fix the 
   bug, the status is left as NEW, but the bug is reassigned to 
   someone else, and the new assignee does the same review.

4) Bugs marked ASSIGNED are then worked on by the assignee.
   4a) If the assignee feels more information is needed, the bug
        is left as ASSIGNED, but a comment is added to the bug
        (which will be sent back to the submitter for more info
        automatically).
   4b) If the assignee can't fix the bug (because it's unable to be
        fixed (for example, an OS issue), the status is changed to
        RESOLVED, and the resolution is set to ISNT_FIXABLE. The 
        Target Milestone is then set to the targetted release 
        version.
   4c) If the assignee fixes the bug, the status is changed to 
        RESOLVED, and the resolution is set to FIXED. The Target
        Milestone is then set to the targetted release version.
   4d) If the assignee determines that the bug submitted is really 
        not a bug (and the QA person thought that it *was*), a comment
        is added and the status is set to RESOLVED and the resolution
        is set to NOT_A_BUG. The Target Milestone is then set to the 
        targetted release version.
   4e) If the assignee determines that the bug submitted is a 
        duplicate of an existing bug (and the QA person didn't catch
        it), a comment is entered pointing to the duplicate, the 
        status is set to RESOLVED, and the resolution is set to 
        DUPLICATE. The Target Milestone is then set to the targetted 
        release version.

5) When a new interim build is released to the RunRev development
   team, the QA person will check the RESOLVED bugs against the new 
   build. If a bug is actually fixed, the status is set to CLOSED.


Ken Ray is new Bugzilla Maintainer
----------------------------------
Ken has graciously agreed to help us with managing the bugs in Bugzilla,
and will be acting for a while as our QA person for the new system. As
you may already know, Ken developed RevZilla, the excellent Revolution 
front-end to Bugzilla, so he is uniquely aware of some of the structure 
and challenges in the Bugzilla system, and was fundamental in getting
the
above changes to the Bugzilla system designed and implemented. So don't
be surprised if you see him responding to bugs!

Now that we have a revised system where bugs can be more appropriately
categorized and dealt with, as well as someone to help manage the bugs,
you should start seeing more movement on the bugs you have already
submitted. We apologize for the slow response we've had to bugs in the
past, and are redoubling our efforts to make sure that bugs are
responded to and fixed as quickly as possible.

If you have any questions related to the changes or Bugzilla itself,
please send them to Ken (ken at runrev.com) and CC me (mark at
runrev.com).

Thanks for your patience in reading this long email, and enjoy the new
changes!

Mark
--
Mark Chia ~ http://www.runrev.com/
Runtime Revolution - User-Centric Development Tools



From 3mcgrath at adelphia.net  Sun Feb  8 14:38:37 2004
From: 3mcgrath at adelphia.net (Thomas McGrath III)
Date: Sun, 8 Feb 2004 14:38:37 -0500
Subject: Bug's to be fixed in next version
Message-ID: <63BF9261-5A6E-11D8-B742-000A95DA60FA@adelphia.net>

I just looked at the bug's to be fixed in the next version of REV.

There are not that many to be fixed.
Maybe if we (listees) could look at the unconfirmed/cant_reproduce bugs 
and try and provide sample/fixes it might make things easier for them 
to look at and maybe fix them.

What do you guys say?

I just uploaded a stack from Jim MacConnell that shows the problem very 
clearly with rotated images having garbled stuff in them.
This bug was on the list for a while but was rated as cant_reproduce 
and yet Jim has this simple stack to reproduce it. The rotate bug is 
#1187

If we could try and reproduce these things then REV et al. would 
probably upgrade the status on some important bugs.

FWIW

TOm


Macintosh PowerBook G-4 OSX 10.3.1, OS 9.2.2, 1.25 GHz, 512MB RAM, Rev 
2.1.2


Advanced Media Group
Thomas J McGrath III	? 2003 ?	3mcgrath at adelphia.net
220 Drake Road, Bethel Park, PA 15102



From smilingeyes at mac.com  Sun Feb  8 14:46:43 2004
From: smilingeyes at mac.com (Ray Bennett)
Date: Sun, 8 Feb 2004 14:46:43 -0500
Subject: php URL statements?
Message-ID: <85B9C0A0-5A6F-11D8-9965-0030657E2BD2@mac.com>

I've been trying for a while to launch a php script on my remote server 
by using a get URL or a put URL

I can't get either to do much.  In one case, I am able to get back an 
error from the server saying I've got an error near a "<P>" tag.

What I do currently is to build the http string and launch the browser. 
  This works but its annoying that I have to alert the user that they'll 
be asked (as a result of the php completing and closing the browser) if 
its okay for the browser to close its window.  I'd like to be able to 
bypass the browser completely.

Can I?

Thanks.
Ray


From shaosean at unitz.ca  Sun Feb  8 15:09:24 2004
From: shaosean at unitz.ca (shaosean at unitz.ca)
Date: Sun, 08 Feb 2004 15:09:24 -0500
Subject: php URL statements?
In-Reply-To: <85B9C0A0-5A6F-11D8-9965-0030657E2BD2@mac.com>
References: <85B9C0A0-5A6F-11D8-9965-0030657E2BD2@mac.com>
Message-ID: <WorldClient-F200402081509.AA09240063@unitz.ca>

i wrote some software for a photograph client of mine to allow him to 
create/delete online albums of the weddings he shots.. it uses rev as 
the front-end and talks to php scripts on the server.. i just used raw 
socket commands instead of using the built-in commands..  it also 
uploaded the images through http post upload feature of php, and then 
did some moving of the files on the server end (again, all through 
php)..  i plan on re-writing it to use ftp, but still need to get around 
to it..

if you're interested in what i've done, i'll strip out the 'private' 
stuff and share the code (i was planning on making a http library with 
it in the future)..

-Sean


From frank at backtalk.com  Sun Feb  8 15:15:16 2004
From: frank at backtalk.com (Frank Leahy)
Date: Sun, 8 Feb 2004 20:15:16 +0000
Subject: Andy's comments and positioning...
In-Reply-To: <20040208115949.2AB929300A9@mail.runrev.com>
Message-ID: <82B01AB6-5A73-11D8-9A91-000A9580FCCE@backtalk.com>


On Sunday, February 8, 2004, at 11:59  AM, 
use-revolution-request at lists.runrev.com wrote:

> - for non-english-speaking students, today, the "javascript" syntax = 
> the
> "flash" syntax = the "." syntax = the "ECMA" syntax = "the standard 
> syntax
> for programming" = is not more difficult than the xtalk syntax.
> It is the same to teach and to learn "the property of myObjetc" than
> "myObject.property". The argument xTalk is easy was true 10 years ago, 
> no
> more today.
> I am sure of that even for 12-15 years french speaking kids ; i do not
> know for english-speaking kids.

Yes, please, if anyone at RunRev is reading this, please add support 
for standard statement syntax such as

x = y + z (instead of put y + z into x)
x += 1 (instead of add 1 to x)
x.myProperty = foo (instead of set myProperty of x to foo)

Not supporting these standard statements make the language look a bit 
"beginner-ish".

-- Frank


From kray at sonsothunder.com  Sun Feb  8 15:51:05 2004
From: kray at sonsothunder.com (Ken Ray)
Date: Sun, 8 Feb 2004 14:51:05 -0600
Subject: Bug's to be fixed in next version
In-Reply-To: <63BF9261-5A6E-11D8-B742-000A95DA60FA@adelphia.net>
Message-ID: <01b101c3ee85$48982f20$6601a8c0@LightningFlash>

Tom,

I don't think you're viewing the bugs correctly. Take a look at the
email from Mark Chia called "Bug Database Changes Completed" - the
"Target Version" popup is to be used for the version that a bug *was
resolved in*, not the one where the bug *will be resolved*. 

Mark and I haven't had a chance to go through the bugs and change their
resolutions or "target milestones" yet, although certainly if you can
get better recipes for reproducing bugs, feel free to do so.

Ken Ray
Sons of Thunder Software
Email: kray at sonsothunder.com
Web Site: http://www.sonsothunder.com/ 

> -----Original Message-----
> From: use-revolution-bounces at lists.runrev.com 
> [mailto:use-revolution-bounces at lists.runrev.com] On Behalf Of 
> Thomas McGrath III
> Sent: Sunday, February 08, 2004 1:39 PM
> To: How to use Revolution
> Subject: Bug's to be fixed in next version
> 
> 
> I just looked at the bug's to be fixed in the next version of REV.
> 
> There are not that many to be fixed.
> Maybe if we (listees) could look at the 
> unconfirmed/cant_reproduce bugs 
> and try and provide sample/fixes it might make things easier for them 
> to look at and maybe fix them.
> 
> What do you guys say?
> 
> I just uploaded a stack from Jim MacConnell that shows the 
> problem very 
> clearly with rotated images having garbled stuff in them.
> This bug was on the list for a while but was rated as cant_reproduce 
> and yet Jim has this simple stack to reproduce it. The rotate bug is 
> #1187
> 
> If we could try and reproduce these things then REV et al. would 
> probably upgrade the status on some important bugs.
> 
> FWIW
> 
> TOm
> 
> 
> Macintosh PowerBook G-4 OSX 10.3.1, OS 9.2.2, 1.25 GHz, 512MB 
> RAM, Rev 
> 2.1.2
> 
> 
> Advanced Media Group
> Thomas J McGrath III	. 2003 .	3mcgrath at adelphia.net
> 220 Drake Road, Bethel Park, PA 15102
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com 
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-> revolution
> 



From dsc at swcp.com  Sun Feb  8 16:45:16 2004
From: dsc at swcp.com (Dar Scott)
Date: Sun, 8 Feb 2004 14:45:16 -0700
Subject: Bug's to be fixed in next version
In-Reply-To: <01b101c3ee85$48982f20$6601a8c0@LightningFlash>
Message-ID: <152764C6-5A80-11D8-BF04-000A9567A3E6@swcp.com>


On Sunday, February 8, 2004, at 01:51 PM, Ken Ray wrote:

> I don't think you're viewing the bugs correctly. Take a look at the
> email from Mark Chia called "Bug Database Changes Completed" - the
> "Target Version" popup is to be used for the version that a bug *was
> resolved in*, not the one where the bug *will be resolved*.

I read Mark's mail as saying the "Tqrget Version" as being set by the 
assignee, in particular, when the bug is fixed.  The meaning of 
"target" is key in that case.  At an internal interim release, the bug 
is set as CLOSED.  I am assuming that the meaning of "target" is 
dropped when a CLOSED bug is associated with a release that has 
actually been released, that is, at that point the meaning is some 
particular release not a future one or a hoped-for one that the word 
"target" might imply.

That is, the meaning of "target version' depends on 1) whether the 
status is RESOLVED/FIXED or CLOSED/FIXED and 2) (I think) whether the 
specified version has been released.

Even so, there does seem to be a backlog of work to get the database up 
to where it should be.  In particular there are a large number of fixed 
bugs with a target of "---".  I feel confident that these will be 
resolved and eventually bugzilla will be in sync.

Some time ago my father-in-law ran across some bug in Netscape.  I 
checked on the mozilla fixes to get a clue and found that there were 
two people fixing bugs each putting back the bug the other fixed in 
order to fix his own.  That is unlikely on the RunRev team, but I think 
the workflow closing step would minimize the impact of such a conflict.

Dar Scott


From dsc at swcp.com  Sun Feb  8 16:29:13 2004
From: dsc at swcp.com (Dar Scott)
Date: Sun, 8 Feb 2004 14:29:13 -0700
Subject: Andy's comments and positioning...
In-Reply-To: <82B01AB6-5A73-11D8-9A91-000A9580FCCE@backtalk.com>
Message-ID: <D74A45CB-5A7D-11D8-BF04-000A9567A3E6@swcp.com>


On Sunday, February 8, 2004, at 01:15 PM, Frank Leahy wrote:

> x = y + z (instead of put y + z into x)
> x += 1 (instead of add 1 to x)
> x.myProperty = foo (instead of set myProperty of x to foo)
>
> Not supporting these standard statements make the language look a bit 
> "beginner-ish".

I disagree.  This is archaic C syntax.  The '=' runs foul to math 
syntax.  C has been the ball and chain of programming language 
development and we should not willingly adopt its syntax.

The Xtalk syntax emphasizes the nature of variables as containers (in 
this language).

The '=' of Xtalk is friendly to the '=' of math.

Do we move to Montana woods to get away from zoning and then ask for 
zoning so city folks won't think us country hicks?

In the Old Testament is a story of how the Hebrews asked God for a king 
because all their neighbors had kings and they were embarrassed about 
not having one.

Dar Scott


From stephenREVOLUTION at barncard.com  Sun Feb  8 16:48:14 2004
From: stephenREVOLUTION at barncard.com (Stephen Quinn Barncard)
Date: Sun, 8 Feb 2004 13:48:14 -0800
Subject: Andy's comments and positioning...
Message-ID: <p06020404bc4c5e5b6888@[192.168.1.100]>

Good grief...you're asking them to rewrite the parser for 
appearances? Wouldn't that add another layer of abstraction and slow 
it down? I think there are far more important issues than to make the 
language "look" like Basic and C.

>Yes, please, if anyone at RunRev is reading this, please add support 
>for standard statement syntax such as
>
>x = y + z (instead of put y + z into x)
>x += 1 (instead of add 1 to x)
>x.myProperty = foo (instead of set myProperty of x to foo)
>
>Not supporting these standard statements make the language look a 
>bit "beginner-ish".
>
>-- Frank

From dsc at swcp.com  Sun Feb  8 16:57:06 2004
From: dsc at swcp.com (Dar Scott)
Date: Sun, 8 Feb 2004 14:57:06 -0700
Subject: Andy's comments and positioning...
In-Reply-To: <82B01AB6-5A73-11D8-9A91-000A9580FCCE@backtalk.com>
Message-ID: <BC4F5C15-5A81-11D8-BF04-000A9567A3E6@swcp.com>


On Sunday, February 8, 2004, at 01:15 PM, Frank Leahy wrote:

> x = y + z (instead of put y + z into x)
> x += 1 (instead of add 1 to x)
> x.myProperty = foo (instead of set myProperty of x to foo)

Of course, if RunRev was to add ?: from C to support something _I_ 
want, then that would be OK.  ;-)

Dar Scott


From hershbp at realtorsgroup.us  Sun Feb  8 17:06:46 2004
From: hershbp at realtorsgroup.us (hershrev)
Date: Sun, 8 Feb 2004 17:06:46 -0500
Subject: E-mail
Message-ID: <160CB557-5A83-11D8-8180-0030654C1E62@realtorsgroup.us>

Hello everybody,
Is it possible to connect RR to an external email program ?
it should take all the info from my contact db field email  and put it 
in the To field, and the text from my body card  into the  the body of 
the email and so on and send it on request or immediately and of coarse 
if possible looping multiple email's  meaning after a SELECT on certain 
records to put an email message to all found it the query ?
Thanks hershrev


From stephenREVOLUTION at barncard.com  Sun Feb  8 17:22:32 2004
From: stephenREVOLUTION at barncard.com (Stephen Quinn Barncard)
Date: Sun, 8 Feb 2004 14:22:32 -0800
Subject: E-mail
Message-ID: <p06020406bc4c66d66565@[192.168.1.100]>

I think Eudora is Applescriptable....

or use the POP library...and send the email from REV.

>Hello everybody,
>Is it possible to connect RR to an external email program ?
>it should take all the info from my contact db field email  and put 
>it in the To field, and the text from my body card  into the  the 
>body of the email and so on and send it on request or immediately 
>and of coarse if possible looping multiple email's  meaning after a 
>SELECT on certain records to put an email message to all found it 
>the query ?
>Thanks hershrev
>
>_______________________________________________
>use-revolution mailing list
>use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
>http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution


From janschenkel at yahoo.com  Sun Feb  8 17:38:46 2004
From: janschenkel at yahoo.com (Jan Schenkel)
Date: Sun, 8 Feb 2004 14:38:46 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Puzzled about stack size
In-Reply-To: <a05100301bc4bee3bb424@[66.81.134.83]>
Message-ID: <20040208223846.95605.qmail@web60508.mail.yahoo.com>

--- Jim Hurley <jhurley at infostations.com> wrote:
> 
> I tried Jan's suggestion of using the undocumented
> command 
> revEmptyTable, but even that didn't  work. (Anybody
> else have my 
> problem of typing Emtpy for Empty and wondering why
> it doesn't work? 
> Something like teh and the.)
> 

Hi Jim,

My apologies for not double-checking my post ; the
parameter of revEmptyTable must be a reference to the
table field.
--
  revEmptyTable (the long name of field "foobar")
--

Hope this helped,

Jan Schenkel.

=====
"As we grow older, we grow both wiser and more foolish at the same time."  (La Rochefoucauld)

__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Finance: Get your refund fast by filing online.
http://taxes.yahoo.com/filing.html

From shaosean at unitz.ca  Sun Feb  8 17:40:00 2004
From: shaosean at unitz.ca (shaosean at unitz.ca)
Date: Sun, 08 Feb 2004 17:40:00 -0500
Subject: E-mail
In-Reply-To: <p06020406bc4c66d66565@[192.168.1.100]>
References: <p06020406bc4c66d66565@[192.168.1.100]>
Message-ID: <WorldClient-F200402081740.AA40000066@unitz.ca>

> or use the POP library...and send the email from REV.

actually the POP library is used to retrieve emails.. the SMTP library 
is used to send emails..

i'm just finishing up a new revision of libSmtp that has much better 
support for sending multiple email messages..


-Sean


From hershbp at realtorsgroup.us  Sun Feb  8 17:42:24 2004
From: hershbp at realtorsgroup.us (hershrev)
Date: Sun, 8 Feb 2004 17:42:24 -0500
Subject: E-mail
In-Reply-To: <p06020406bc4c66d66565@[192.168.1.100]>
Message-ID: <10A4029C-5A88-11D8-8180-0030654C1E62@realtorsgroup.us>


On Sunday, February 8, 2004, at 05:22 PM, Stephen Quinn Barncard wrote:

> I think Eudora is Applescriptable....
Is RR Apple Scriptable ?
>
> or use the POP library...and send the email from REV.
I didn't want to take upon myself to write an email program.
>
>> Hello everybody,
>> Is it possible to connect RR to an external email program ?
>> it should take all the info from my contact db field email  and put 
>> it in the To field, and the text from my body card  into the  the 
>> body of the email and so on and send it on request or immediately and 
>> of coarse if possible looping multiple email's  meaning after a 
>> SELECT on certain records to put an email message to all found it the 
>> query ?
>> Thanks hershrev
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> use-revolution mailing list
>> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>


From shaosean at unitz.ca  Sun Feb  8 17:54:02 2004
From: shaosean at unitz.ca (shaosean at unitz.ca)
Date: Sun, 08 Feb 2004 17:54:02 -0500
Subject: E-mail
In-Reply-To: <10A4029C-5A88-11D8-8180-0030654C1E62@realtorsgroup.us>
References: <p06020406bc4c66d66565@[192.168.1.100]>
	<10A4029C-5A88-11D8-8180-0030654C1E62@realtorsgroup.us>
Message-ID: <WorldClient-F200402081754.AA54020072@unitz.ca>

> > or use the POP library...and send the email from REV.
> I didn't want to take upon myself to write an email program.

you don't have to.. between myself and sarah, there are two libraries 
that you can use to send and retrieve emails..

Sarah's POP3 (retrieve) library can be found at:
http://www.troz.net/Rev/

My SMTP (send) library can be found at:
http://shaosean.tk/

hope that helps

-Sean


From sarahr at genesearch.com.au  Sun Feb  8 17:55:04 2004
From: sarahr at genesearch.com.au (Sarah Reichelt)
Date: Mon, 9 Feb 2004 08:55:04 +1000
Subject: Let Rev's Light Shine...or Watch It Go Out
In-Reply-To: <20040206204240.22985.qmail@web61101.mail.yahoo.com>
References: <20040206204240.22985.qmail@web61101.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <D5AF11ED-5A89-11D8-8E1C-0003937A97B8@genesearch.com.au>

Check the "Made with logos" folder in your Revolution application 
folder. It shows how they want it displayed and includes various 
graphics files for this purpose.

Cheers,
Sarah

On 7 Feb 2004, at 6:44 am, erik hansen wrote:

> --- Richard Gaskin <ambassador at fourthworld.com>
> wrote:
>> If one really wants to support Rev effectively
>> there's a much more visible
>> way to do it: consider adding a page at your
>> site offering Rev info, tools,
>> or even just a description of how your clients
>> benefit from your using Rev.
>> Your About box only goes as far as you can
>> throw it, but Google is
>> everywhere....
>
> the link to this page usually uses the attractive
> RunRev logo. is this authorized bu RunRev?
>
> =====
> erik at erikhansen.org    http://www.erikhansen.org
>
> __________________________________
> Do you Yahoo!?
> Yahoo! Finance: Get your refund fast by filing online.
> http://taxes.yahoo.com/filing.html
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>
>
>


From 3mcgrath at adelphia.net  Sun Feb  8 17:57:23 2004
From: 3mcgrath at adelphia.net (Thomas McGrath III)
Date: Sun, 8 Feb 2004 17:57:23 -0500
Subject: Bug's to be fixed in next version
In-Reply-To: <01b101c3ee85$48982f20$6601a8c0@LightningFlash>
References: <01b101c3ee85$48982f20$6601a8c0@LightningFlash>
Message-ID: <280A0708-5A8A-11D8-B742-000A95DA60FA@adelphia.net>

That won't be the first time.

Tom

On Feb 8, 2004, at 3:51 PM, Ken Ray wrote:

> Tom,
>
> I don't think you're viewing the bugs correctly. Take a look at the
> email from Mark Chia called "Bug Database Changes Completed" - the
> "Target Version" popup is to be used for the version that a bug *was
> resolved in*, not the one where the bug *will be resolved*.
>
> Mark and I haven't had a chance to go through the bugs and change their
> resolutions or "target milestones" yet, although certainly if you can
> get better recipes for reproducing bugs, feel free to do so.
>
> Ken Ray
> Sons of Thunder Software
> Email: kray at sonsothunder.com
> Web Site: http://www.sonsothunder.com/
>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: use-revolution-bounces at lists.runrev.com
>> [mailto:use-revolution-bounces at lists.runrev.com] On Behalf Of
>> Thomas McGrath III
>> Sent: Sunday, February 08, 2004 1:39 PM
>> To: How to use Revolution
>> Subject: Bug's to be fixed in next version
>>
>>
>> I just looked at the bug's to be fixed in the next version of REV.
>>
>> There are not that many to be fixed.
>> Maybe if we (listees) could look at the
>> unconfirmed/cant_reproduce bugs
>> and try and provide sample/fixes it might make things easier for them
>> to look at and maybe fix them.
>>
>> What do you guys say?
>>
>> I just uploaded a stack from Jim MacConnell that shows the
>> problem very
>> clearly with rotated images having garbled stuff in them.
>> This bug was on the list for a while but was rated as cant_reproduce
>> and yet Jim has this simple stack to reproduce it. The rotate bug is
>> #1187
>>
>> If we could try and reproduce these things then REV et al. would
>> probably upgrade the status on some important bugs.
>>
>> FWIW
>>
>> TOm
>>
>>
>> Macintosh PowerBook G-4 OSX 10.3.1, OS 9.2.2, 1.25 GHz, 512MB
>> RAM, Rev
>> 2.1.2
>>
>>
>> Advanced Media Group
>> Thomas J McGrath III	. 2003 .	3mcgrath at adelphia.net
>> 220 Drake Road, Bethel Park, PA 15102
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> use-revolution mailing list
>> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-> revolution
>>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>
>

Thomas J. McGrath III
SCS
1000 Killarney Dr.
Pittsburgh, PA 15234
412-885-8541


From hershbp at realtorsgroup.us  Sun Feb  8 17:57:39 2004
From: hershbp at realtorsgroup.us (hershrev)
Date: Sun, 8 Feb 2004 17:57:39 -0500
Subject: E-mail
In-Reply-To: <WorldClient-F200402081740.AA40000066@unitz.ca>
Message-ID: <31E43205-5A8A-11D8-8180-0030654C1E62@realtorsgroup.us>


On Sunday, February 8, 2004, at 05:40 PM, shaosean at unitz.ca wrote:

>> or use the POP library...and send the email from REV.
>
> actually the POP library is used to retrieve emails.. the SMTP library
> is used to send emails..
>
> i'm just finishing up a new revision of libSmtp that has much better
> support for sending multiple email messages..
multithread ?
>
>
> -Sean
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>


From dsc at swcp.com  Sun Feb  8 18:02:22 2004
From: dsc at swcp.com (Dar Scott)
Date: Sun, 8 Feb 2004 16:02:22 -0700
Subject: Is Transcript's English orientation a plus or minus? (was Andy's
	comments and positioning...)
In-Reply-To: <opr21tdrmb7hj683@smtp.wanadoo.fr>
Message-ID: <DA6D6687-5A8A-11D8-BF04-000A9567A3E6@swcp.com>


On Sunday, February 8, 2004, at 04:11 AM, opus.species at wanadoo.fr wrote:

> - for non-english-speaking students, today, the "javascript" syntax = 
> the "flash" syntax = the "." syntax = the "ECMA" syntax = "the 
> standard syntax for programming" = is not more difficult than the 
> xtalk syntax.
> It is the same to teach and to learn "the property of myObjetc" than 
> "myObject.property". The argument xTalk is easy was true 10 years ago, 
> no more today.
> I am sure of that even for 12-15 years french speaking kids ; i do not 
> know for english-speaking kids.

In responding to Freak L.'s suggestion, I had ignored this.

If I read Claude's comments right, the English-like syntax adds 
nothing.  This stops short of saying it gets in the way.

Though I like the syntax for my own use and for teaching "junior 
associates" (it does help), I think the English orientation might be 
somewhat of a weakness in an global sense.  I don't really know and I 
don't think I'm much of a judge.

Dar Scott


From doug at webcrossing.com  Sun Feb  8 18:07:51 2004
From: doug at webcrossing.com (Doug Lerner)
Date: Mon, 09 Feb 2004 08:07:51 +0900
Subject: Is Transcript's English orientation a plus or minus? (was
	Andy'scomments and positioning...)
In-Reply-To: <DA6D6687-5A8A-11D8-BF04-000A9567A3E6@swcp.com>
Message-ID: <BC4CF057.25EC7%doug@webcrossing.com>

On 2/9/04 8:02 AM, "Dar Scott" <dsc at swcp.com> wrote:

> 
> On Sunday, February 8, 2004, at 04:11 AM, opus.species at wanadoo.fr wrote:
> 
>> - for non-english-speaking students, today, the "javascript" syntax =
>> the "flash" syntax = the "." syntax = the "ECMA" syntax = "the
>> standard syntax for programming" = is not more difficult than the
>> xtalk syntax.
>> It is the same to teach and to learn "the property of myObjetc" than
>> "myObject.property". The argument xTalk is easy was true 10 years ago,
>> no more today.
>> I am sure of that even for 12-15 years french speaking kids ; i do not
>> know for english-speaking kids.
> 
> In responding to Freak L.'s suggestion, I had ignored this.
> 
> If I read Claude's comments right, the English-like syntax adds
> nothing.  This stops short of saying it gets in the way.
> 
> Though I like the syntax for my own use and for teaching "junior
> associates" (it does help), I think the English orientation might be
> somewhat of a weakness in an global sense.  I don't really know and I
> don't think I'm much of a judge.
> 
> Dar Scott

I was wonder that myself. If you were going to write for, say, Japanese
users, instead of 

set the a of b to c

you would say

b no a wo c ni settei

The grammar is practically opposite.

It would be nice to also support a JavaScript-like:

b.a = c

notation

doug


From stephenREVOLUTION at barncard.com  Sun Feb  8 18:09:38 2004
From: stephenREVOLUTION at barncard.com (Stephen Quinn Barncard)
Date: Sun, 8 Feb 2004 15:09:38 -0800
Subject: Is Transcript's English orientation a plus or minus? (was
 Andy's 	comments and positioning...)
Message-ID: <p0602040abc4c71c7f5dd@[192.168.1.100]>

I imagine it would be a nightmare to 'localize' the syntax to French, 
German....and prone to more bugs... it's human nature...


>
>Though I like the syntax for my own use and for teaching "junior 
>associates" (it does help), I think the English orientation might be 
>somewhat of a weakness in an global sense.  I don't really know and 
>I don't think I'm much of a judge.
>
>Dar Scott

From frank at backtalk.com  Sun Feb  8 18:20:08 2004
From: frank at backtalk.com (Frank Leahy)
Date: Sun, 8 Feb 2004 23:20:08 +0000
Subject: Andy's comments and positioning...
In-Reply-To: <20040208225826.DC69D93010D@mail.runrev.com>
Message-ID: <55A1D678-5A8D-11D8-9A91-000A9580FCCE@backtalk.com>


On Sunday, February 8, 2004, at 10:58  PM, 
use-revolution-request at lists.runrev.com wrote:

> On Sunday, February 8, 2004, at 01:15 PM, Frank Leahy wrote:
>
>> x = y + z (instead of put y + z into x)
>> x += 1 (instead of add 1 to x)
>> x.myProperty = foo (instead of set myProperty of x to foo)
>>
>> Not supporting these standard statements make the language look a bit
>> "beginner-ish".
>
> I disagree.  This is archaic C syntax.  The '=' runs foul to math
> syntax.  C has been the ball and chain of programming language
> development and we should not willingly adopt its syntax.


x = y + z has nothing to do with C, it's standard mathematics notation. 
Every language that I've ever used, C, C++, Java, Eiffel, Perl, VB, 
ASP, PHP, Lingo -- with the singular exception of xTalk -- uses x = y + 
z instead of "put".

 >Good grief...you're asking them to rewrite the parser for
 >appearances? Wouldn't that add another layer of abstraction and slow
 >it down? I think there are far more important issues than to make the
 >language "look" like Basic and C.

Adding support for this syntax would require minimal changes to the 
parser (and if they're using something like YACC, no changes to the 
parser as they'll simply change the grammar input).  It will have zero 
impact on performance.

-- Frank


From frank at backtalk.com  Sun Feb  8 18:22:06 2004
From: frank at backtalk.com (Frank Leahy)
Date: Sun, 8 Feb 2004 23:22:06 +0000
Subject: text display - language problem
In-Reply-To: <20040208170004.C86DF930061@mail.runrev.com>
Message-ID: <9C0DB29E-5A8D-11D8-9A91-000A9580FCCE@backtalk.com>

atb,

I download and tried your app (good luck with the Japanese version).  I 
then went to launch my rev project by double-clicking on the project 
icon -- but instead of getting the Revolution IDE it ** loaded your app 
**!

It looks like you've forgotten to give your app its own creator code.  
Instead of using the Revolution creator code you should get a new 
creator code from Apple, and set it when you build your app.  Otherwise 
anyone using your app who also has Revolution installed is going to 
have the same problem.

Best,
-- Frank

On Sunday, February 8, 2004, at 05:00  PM, 
use-revolution-request at lists.runrev.com wrote:

> From: sims <sims at ezpzapps.com>
> Subject: text display - language problem
> To: <use-revolution at lists.runrev.com>
> Message-ID: <a05200f2dbc4c158fb5cf@[10.0.0.1]>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed"
>
>   Keiji Goto wrote to sims the other day:
>>
>> My name is Keiji Goto, a professional writer, writing
>> books and articles for various Japanese magazines.
> <snip>
>> but currently the program does
>> not display Japanese characters properly. I can
>> enter Japanese characters all right
> <snip>
>> As is, not capable of handling Japanese
>> characters properly, I cannot review the program
>> and I think it is too pity that Japanese Mac users
>> cannot use your program and also your program
> should deserve more exposure in Japan too.
>
> Keiji is referring to one of my shareware apps, I'd like to be making
> income from Japan also but he has a problem with text display.
>
> Keiji can enter Japanese characters into fields in my app but that data
> gets saved in a user property. Upon opening, the app takes data from
> user properties and then populates the fields (the user clicks a 
> scrollingList
> fld to select the data he/she wants displayed).
>
> How can I get that data (from a user prop) to display in a fld in any
> language? If they input English then English, Japanese then Japanese, 
> French
> then French.  Help!
>
> atb


From kray at sonsothunder.com  Sun Feb  8 18:21:53 2004
From: kray at sonsothunder.com (Ken Ray)
Date: Sun, 8 Feb 2004 17:21:53 -0600
Subject: Bug's to be fixed in next version
In-Reply-To: <152764C6-5A80-11D8-BF04-000A9567A3E6@swcp.com>
Message-ID: <01ce01c3ee9a$59911340$6601a8c0@LightningFlash>

> On Sunday, February 8, 2004, at 01:51 PM, Ken Ray wrote:
> 
> > I don't think you're viewing the bugs correctly. Take a look at the 
> > email from Mark Chia called "Bug Database Changes Completed" - the 
> > "Target Version" popup is to be used for the version that a 
> bug *was 
> > resolved in*, not the one where the bug *will be resolved*.
> 
> I read Mark's mail as saying the "Tqrget Version" as being set by the 
> assignee, in particular, when the bug is fixed.  The meaning of 
> "target" is key in that case.  At an internal interim 
> release, the bug 
> is set as CLOSED.  I am assuming that the meaning of "target" is 
> dropped when a CLOSED bug is associated with a release that has 
> actually been released, that is, at that point the meaning is some 
> particular release not a future one or a hoped-for one that the word 
> "target" might imply.
> 
> That is, the meaning of "target version' depends on 1) whether the 
> status is RESOLVED/FIXED or CLOSED/FIXED and 2) (I think) whether the 
> specified version has been released.

Sort of, but here's the idea... a bug that is being worked on has a
target version of "---"; once the assignee has fixed a bug, they set it
to the upcoming release version (which they should know). 

> Even so, there does seem to be a backlog of work to get the 
> database up 
> to where it should be.  In particular there are a large 
> number of fixed 
> bugs with a target of "---".  I feel confident that these will be 
> resolved and eventually bugzilla will be in sync.

Yes, that's the plan... :-)
 
> Some time ago my father-in-law ran across some bug in Netscape.  I 
> checked on the mozilla fixes to get a clue and found that there were 
> two people fixing bugs each putting back the bug the other fixed in 
> order to fix his own.  That is unlikely on the RunRev team, 
> but I think 
> the workflow closing step would minimize the impact of such a 
> conflict.

Agreed.

Thanks, Dar!

Ken Ray
Sons of Thunder Software
Email: kray at sonsothunder.com
Web Site: http://www.sonsothunder.com/ 



From k.r.hauge at east.uio.no  Sun Feb  8 18:26:13 2004
From: k.r.hauge at east.uio.no (Kjetil =?iso-8859-1?Q?R=E5?= Hauge)
Date: Mon, 9 Feb 2004 00:26:13 +0100
Subject: Is Transcript's English orientation a plus or minus? (was 
 Andy'scomments and positioning...)
In-Reply-To: <BC4CF057.25EC7%doug@webcrossing.com>
References: <BC4CF057.25EC7%doug@webcrossing.com>
Message-ID: <p06002002bc4c72d2cafb@[10.29.0.187]>

>On 2/9/04 8:02 AM, "Dar Scott" <dsc at swcp.com> wrote:
>I was wonder that myself. If you were going to write for, say, Japanese
>users, instead of
>
>set the a of b to c
>
>you would say
>
>b no a wo c ni settei
>
>The grammar is practically opposite.
>
>It would be nice to also support a JavaScript-like:
>
>b.a = c
>
>notation
>

Fascinating. Let's compare with Turkish:

>set the a of b to c

Japanese:

>b no a wo c ni settei

Turkish:

b'n?n a's? c olacak/olur/olmal?/olsun -- or whatever

>It would be nice to also support a JavaScript-like:
>
b.a = c

... while the Turkish would support

b.a c =

.. which is, if I am not mistaken, reminiscent of 
"Polish notation" in logics. Applescript already 
has  French  and Japanese variants of its 
English-like syntax, I believe. But would it make 
learning easier for Japanese and Turkish 
programmers if the programming language syntax 
was closer to the constituent order (aka word 
order) of their native language? I am not sure. 
Most Germans write English quite well without the 
verb at the end of the sentence to put, don't 
they?
-- 
--- Kjetil R? Hauge, U. of Oslo. Tel. +47/22856710, fax +47/22854140
--- (this msg sent from home, +47/67148424, fax +1/5084372444)

From shaosean at unitz.ca  Sun Feb  8 18:31:53 2004
From: shaosean at unitz.ca (shaosean at unitz.ca)
Date: Sun, 08 Feb 2004 18:31:53 -0500
Subject: E-mail
In-Reply-To: <31E43205-5A8A-11D8-8180-0030654C1E62@realtorsgroup.us>
References: <WorldClient-F200402081740.AA40000066@unitz.ca>
	<31E43205-5A8A-11D8-8180-0030654C1E62@realtorsgroup.us>
Message-ID: <WorldClient-F200402081831.AA31530079@unitz.ca>

> > i'm just finishing up a new revision of libSmtp that has much better
> > support for sending multiple email messages..

> multithread ?

it already is (as far as runrev's multi-threading goes).. basically it 
allows you to send multiple messages (the same one, or a completely 
different one) using the same connection to the server (saves on system 
resources on both ends)..

libSmtpOpen( serverAddress[, serverPort] )  <-- start the connection

libSmtpSend( mailFrom, recipientList, message[, username, password][, 
callbackMessage] )   <-- call this one as many times as you need

libSmtpClose   <-- end the connection


it's all completed, but i'm just putting the finishing touches on an 
example email sender program (this one has prefs ;-)

-Sean


From jhurley at infostations.com  Sun Feb  8 18:50:58 2004
From: jhurley at infostations.com (Jim Hurley)
Date: Sun, 8 Feb 2004 15:50:58 -0800
Subject: Puzzled about stack size
In-Reply-To: <20040208225826.DC69D93010D@mail.runrev.com>
References: <20040208225826.DC69D93010D@mail.runrev.com>
Message-ID: <a05100304bc4c7907504d@[66.81.134.83]>

>
>Message: 6
>Date: Sun, 8 Feb 2004 14:38:46 -0800 (PST)
>From: Jan Schenkel <janschenkel at yahoo.com>
>Subject: Re: Puzzled about stack size
>To: How to use Revolution <use-revolution at lists.runrev.com>
>Message-ID: <20040208223846.95605.qmail at web60508.mail.yahoo.com>
>Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
>
>--- Jim Hurley <jhurley at infostations.com> wrote:
>>
>>  I tried Jan's suggestion of using the undocumented
>>  command
>>  revEmptyTable, but even that didn't  work. (Anybody
>>  else have my
>>  problem of typing Emtpy for Empty and wondering why
>>  it doesn't work?
>>  Something like teh and the.)
>>
>
>Hi Jim,
>
>My apologies for not double-checking my post ; the
>parameter of revEmptyTable must be a reference to the
>table field.
>--
>   revEmptyTable (the long name of field "foobar")
>--
>
>Hope this helped,
>
>Jan Schenkel.

Jan,

Thanks Jan, that did the trick. Rev doesn't make this deleting of 
text in table fields easy. I love the docs, but this section needs a 
little work.

I used to know how to do this but I've forgotten: How do I get a look 
at the handler "revEmptyTable"?

Jim

From dsc at swcp.com  Sun Feb  8 19:07:47 2004
From: dsc at swcp.com (Dar Scott)
Date: Sun, 8 Feb 2004 17:07:47 -0700
Subject: Is Transcript's English orientation a plus or minus? (was
	Andy'scomments and positioning...)
In-Reply-To: <BC4CF057.25EC7%doug@webcrossing.com>
Message-ID: <FE2DFAF0-5A93-11D8-BF04-000A9567A3E6@swcp.com>


On Sunday, February 8, 2004, at 04:07 PM, Doug Lerner wrote:

> It would be nice to also support a JavaScript-like:
>
> b.a = c

What could be a concrete example?

(field "Potatoes Required").textHeight = 20

Or like this?

field("Potatoes Required).textHeight = 20

Just wondering.

(this stack).textHeight =20

Dar Scott


From frank at backtalk.com  Sun Feb  8 19:15:28 2004
From: frank at backtalk.com (Frank Leahy)
Date: Mon, 9 Feb 2004 00:15:28 +0000
Subject: xTalk JPEG parser?
Message-ID: <10BAA7BF-5A95-11D8-9A91-000A9580FCCE@backtalk.com>

Has anyone written parser in xTalk that will parse a JPEG file and get 
things like the dimensions, EXIF info, etc.?

Thanks,
-- Frank


From doug at webcrossing.com  Sun Feb  8 19:20:11 2004
From: doug at webcrossing.com (Doug Lerner)
Date: Mon, 09 Feb 2004 09:20:11 +0900
Subject: Is Transcript's English orientation a plus or minus?
	(wasAndy'scomments and positioning...)
In-Reply-To: <FE2DFAF0-5A93-11D8-BF04-000A9567A3E6@swcp.com>
Message-ID: <BC4D014B.25EF1%doug@webcrossing.com>

On 2/9/04 9:07 AM, "Dar Scott" <dsc at swcp.com> wrote:

> 
> On Sunday, February 8, 2004, at 04:07 PM, Doug Lerner wrote:
> 
>> It would be nice to also support a JavaScript-like:
>> 
>> b.a = c
> 
> What could be a concrete example?
> 
> (field "Potatoes Required").textHeight = 20
> 
> Or like this?
> 
> field("Potatoes Required).textHeight = 20
> 
> Just wondering.
> 
> (this stack).textHeight =20
>

I think parentheses around the entire expression is more consistent with
other languages. For example, in JavaScript you would create a new date
object with

    new Date()

You might get just the 4-digit year with

    now = new Date();
    year = now.getFullYear();

or you might just do it in one step like:

    year = (new Date()).getFullYear();

Of course with Transcript, the = operator means the same thing that the ==
operator means in other languages. That probably can't be changed anymore or
everything wouldn't be backwards compatible. So some other kind of
assignment operator would be needed like

    b.a := c (looks like an arrow pointing to the left)

doug



From dsc at swcp.com  Sun Feb  8 19:25:56 2004
From: dsc at swcp.com (Dar Scott)
Date: Sun, 8 Feb 2004 17:25:56 -0700
Subject: Andy's comments and positioning...
In-Reply-To: <55A1D678-5A8D-11D8-9A91-000A9580FCCE@backtalk.com>
Message-ID: <86E7C4B1-5A96-11D8-BF04-000A9567A3E6@swcp.com>


On Sunday, February 8, 2004, at 04:20 PM, Frank Leahy wrote:

> x = y + z has nothing to do with C, it's standard mathematics notation.

The mathematics notation that comes to my mind is that "x = y + z" is a 
statement that is true or false in some context, not an assignment.

> Every language that I've ever used, C, C++, Java, Eiffel, Perl, VB, 
> ASP, PHP, Lingo -- with the singular exception of xTalk -- uses x = y 
> + z instead of "put".

Well, isn't this a very narrow group?

I thought Eiffel uses the (much superior) Pascal notation of ':='.

Transcript does use (in some rough sense) a semantics closer to being 
friendly to standard mathematics notation for "=" in this:

if x = y + z then ...

Basic does use "let ... = " which, though not C, has its own problems.

Some languages before the existence of Hypercard used "put ... into 
..." (I helped build one), so this is not strictly a Hypercard thing.

Some languages overload = to mean 'defined as' in some contexts and 
'equals' in others.  Mathematics is in the same situation and some 
folks use a different symbol to mean 'defined as'.

Where we possibly agree is that Transcript need not allow the user to 
have memory leaks or to worry about pointer errors or to worry about 
garbage collection of freeing things or the like.  Those we can leave 
to C programmers.

Dar Scott



From revdan at danshafer.com  Sun Feb  8 19:36:25 2004
From: revdan at danshafer.com (Dan Shafer)
Date: Sun, 8 Feb 2004 16:36:25 -0800
Subject: xTalk Syntax (was Re: Andy's comments and positioning...)
In-Reply-To: <55A1D678-5A8D-11D8-9A91-000A9580FCCE@backtalk.com>
References: <55A1D678-5A8D-11D8-9A91-000A9580FCCE@backtalk.com>
Message-ID: <FDD59D24-5A97-11D8-B530-0030656FB5D4@danshafer.com>

FWIW, I'm always, always, always going to argue against any change to 
xTalk syntax that makes the language one iota more complex than it is. 
That's my prejudice and you need to know that up front (as if you 
didn't already).

Claude Lemmel said:

"It is the same to teach and to learn "the property of myObjetc" than 
"myObject.property". The argument xTalk is easy was true 10 years ago, 
no more today."

Interesting observation, Claude, but when I talk about the relative 
ease of learning and using Transcript and other xTalks vs. conventional 
languages, I'm not speaking of any particular small bit of syntax. I'm 
talking about the way it *feels*. In daily talk, we never say "this 
equals that" let alone "this=that". We say "this IS that" or we say 
"put this into that." There are literally dozens of such syntactical 
examples where xTalk emerges as easier than other languages. I've heard 
it 100 times. "I type in a command in the Message Window and it just 
works as I expect." Nobody *ever* says that about C++, C#, VB, or even 
REALBasic.

"the langage must evolve to allow both syntaxes, xTalk and ECMA"

Yes, but *only* if it allows both syntaxes. Over the years that I've 
watched languages evolve, they too often leave a syntax behind as they 
evolve to a new one. Dot notation isn't hard to learn, but it, again, 
is less natural than the very fluid human-language-style approach in 
Transcript. No matter how you slice it, "card43.button('OK').hide" is 
not as comfortable or fluid as "hide button "OK" of card 43."

"It is a hazardeous way to compare Flash and Revolution ; but it is 
easy to explain "Revolution is superior to Flash beacuse Revolution can 
embedd Flash"."

Reminds me of the old religious language wars between Prolog and LISP. 
The LISPers always thought they could win the battle by saying, smugly, 
"You could write Prolog in LISP but you could never write LISP in 
Prolog." I always wanted to shout, "But I don't *want* to write a 
freaking computer language!" To me, a linkage between Transcript and 
JavaScript that would allow me to wrapper calls to media objects in my 
favorite language (Transcript) would be more beneficial than the 
ability to embed Flash stuff in Rev.

"Revolution appears today as the tool for the Macintosh community."

I thought Kevin dealt well with that one the other day. If anyone has a 
perception that Rev is a Mac tool, there's not much that can be done to 
help them. The MacWorld (UK?) reviewer who said that obviously had 
spent little or no time writing the review. Nothing at RunRev's Web 
site, in their marketing or, anywhere else that I've seen conveys that 
message.

Frank Leahy offers:

"Yes, please, if anyone at RunRev is reading this, please add support 
for standard statement syntax such as

x = y + z (instead of put y + z into x)
x += 1 (instead of add 1 to x)
x.myProperty = foo (instead of set myProperty of x to foo)"

Sorry, Frank, but I just flat disagree. Those syntaxes -- in particular 
the far-too-cryptic and unreadably annoying "x += 1" -- are off-putting 
to all but professional programmers with backgrounds in C/C++/Java. And 
those folks, as I said in my earlier post, are vanishingly unlikely to 
change languages to any other tool, particularly one which is 
accessible to those who have not "paid their dues" and become members 
of the "Programming Priesthood." (Don't get me started!)

Dar Scott says, sarcastically and amusingly:

"Of course, if RunRev was to add ?: from C to support something _I_ 
want, then that would be OK.  ;-)"

Yeah. And that syntax found its way into an otherwise largely 
accessible language called JavaScript. Go figure.


From shaosean at unitz.ca  Sun Feb  8 19:46:01 2004
From: shaosean at unitz.ca (shaosean at unitz.ca)
Date: Sun, 08 Feb 2004 19:46:01 -0500
Subject: [ANN] libEmail 1.0.2, libSmtp 2.0.2
Message-ID: <WorldClient-F200402081946.AA46010100@unitz.ca>

i've updated the libraries, but be forewarned that i've switched out of 
the "dot notation" that i was previously using (i made the switch before 
the current thread was started ;-)

libEmail 1.0.2 is a minor update just removing the text wraping in the 
html message body

libSmtp 2.0.2 introduces a new handler and a new function, as well as 
changing the syntax of the libSmtpSend() funciton..

and finally, just to show how it all works together, there's a beauty 
example stack that shows how one can easily create an email sender to 
quickly fire off emails.. please note that unicode support in the 
example stack is rather weak in some areas due to the way it's built, 
not due to the libraries..


-Sean
http://shaosean.tk/


From stephenREVOLUTION at barncard.com  Sun Feb  8 19:46:19 2004
From: stephenREVOLUTION at barncard.com (Stephen Quinn Barncard)
Date: Sun, 8 Feb 2004 16:46:19 -0800
Subject: xTalk JPEG parser?
Message-ID: <p0602040dbc4c86faeda1@[192.168.1.100]>

I've tried. I've downloaded the specs and tried to follow them but I 
couldn't get my code to reliably work on every JPEG. It's harder than 
it looks.

Basically the numbers are in jump tables after the beginning of the 
file, but there's a few things in the spec I couldn't figure out. 
There used to be an XCMD for that in HC days, and I know it's 
possible... I gave up after a while. Also there's new additions to 
the spec : EXIF which deals with camera info.

THere are some fixed bytes at the beginning of the file that point to 
the next header, then another jump, and another until the end of the 
headers.

Some attempts were based on simple PERL code examples I found on the 
net, but those didn't work well reliably. There's something missing 
in the info...


>Has anyone written parser in xTalk that will parse a JPEG file and 
>get things like the dimensions, EXIF info, etc.?
>
>Thanks,
>-- Frank

From ambassador at fourthworld.com  Sun Feb  8 19:50:58 2004
From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin)
Date: Sun, 08 Feb 2004 16:50:58 -0800
Subject: Andy's comments and positioning...
In-Reply-To: <86E7C4B1-5A96-11D8-BF04-000A9567A3E6@swcp.com>
Message-ID: <BC4C1972.3CF08%ambassador@fourthworld.com>

Dar Scott wrote:

> Where we possibly agree is that Transcript need not allow the user to
> have memory leaks or to worry about pointer errors or to worry about
> garbage collection of freeing things...0

...and the several million person-hours lost each year to bugs related to
the difference between "=" and "==". ;)

-- 
 Richard Gaskin 
 Fourth World Media Corporation
 ___________________________________________________________
 Ambassador at FourthWorld.com       http://www.FourthWorld.com


From psahores at easynet.fr  Sun Feb  8 20:04:49 2004
From: psahores at easynet.fr (Pierre Sahores)
Date: Mon, 9 Feb 2004 02:04:49 +0100
Subject: Andy's comments and positioning...
In-Reply-To: <D74A45CB-5A7D-11D8-BF04-000A9567A3E6@swcp.com>
References: <D74A45CB-5A7D-11D8-BF04-000A9567A3E6@swcp.com>
Message-ID: <F59F4695-5A9B-11D8-A0B2-000A95665344@easynet.fr>


Le 8 f?vr. 04, ? 22:29, Dar Scott a ?crit :

>
> On Sunday, February 8, 2004, at 01:15 PM, Frank Leahy wrote:
>
>> x = y + z (instead of put y + z into x)
>> x += 1 (instead of add 1 to x)
>> x.myProperty = foo (instead of set myProperty of x to foo)
>>
>> Not supporting these standard statements make the language look a bit 
>> "beginner-ish".
>
> I disagree.  This is archaic C syntax.  The '=' runs foul to math 
> syntax.  C has been the ball and chain of programming language 
> development and we should not willingly adopt its syntax.
>
> The Xtalk syntax emphasizes the nature of variables as containers (in 
> this language).
>
> The '=' of Xtalk is friendly to the '=' of math.
>
> Do we move to Montana woods to get away from zoning and then ask for 
> zoning so city folks won't think us country hicks?
>
> In the Old Testament is a story of how the Hebrews asked God for a 
> king because all their neighbors had kings and they were embarrassed 
> about not having one.
>
> Dar Scott
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>

Agreed ! The English-like syntax of Transcript seem me to be one of the 
main parts of the XTalk paradigm : As long as Rev will support this 
VHLL feature, we will stay able to code transcript handlers, even 
without running computers : i like to feel me free to "think and code" 
cool handlers in the railroad or, even, in driving my car from home to 
the office... I can't, for my own, do, with the same success, such kind 
of things in using Rebol, PHP, Javascript or Java...
>
Bien cordialement, Pierre Sahores

100, rue de Paris
F - 77140 Nemours

psahores at easynet.fr

GSM:   +33 6 03 95 77 70
Pro:   +33 1 41 60 52 68
Dom:   +33 1 64 45 05 33
Fax:   +33 1 64 45 05 33

Inspection acad?mique de Seine-Saint-Denis
Applications et SGBD ACID SQL (WEB et PGI)
Penser et produire "delta de productivit?"


From psahores at easynet.fr  Sun Feb  8 20:29:00 2004
From: psahores at easynet.fr (Pierre Sahores)
Date: Mon, 9 Feb 2004 02:29:00 +0100
Subject: Andy's comments and positioning...
In-Reply-To: <BC4C1972.3CF08%ambassador@fourthworld.com>
References: <BC4C1972.3CF08%ambassador@fourthworld.com>
Message-ID: <569ED1B8-5A9F-11D8-A0B2-000A95665344@easynet.fr>


Le 9 f?vr. 04, ? 01:50, Richard Gaskin a ?crit :

> Dar Scott wrote:
>
>> Where we possibly agree is that Transcript need not allow the user to
>> have memory leaks or to worry about pointer errors or to worry about
>> garbage collection of freeing things...0
>
> ...and the several million person-hours lost each year to bugs related 
> to
> the difference between "=" and "==". ;)

Right said ! Transcript is, as a the most usefull "VHLL syntax" ever 
seen, dedicated to help the designer's to win time... Only the low 
developers don't care about this kind of core features of the 
langage... See Java: the time token to declare const, vars and types 
(without errors) is a technical task only...

> -- 
>  Richard Gaskin
>  Fourth World Media Corporation
>  ___________________________________________________________
>  Ambassador at FourthWorld.com       http://www.FourthWorld.com
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>
>
Bien cordialement, Pierre Sahores

100, rue de Paris
F - 77140 Nemours

psahores at easynet.fr

GSM:   +33 6 03 95 77 70
Pro:   +33 1 41 60 52 68
Dom:   +33 1 64 45 05 33
Fax:   +33 1 64 45 05 33

Inspection acad?mique de Seine-Saint-Denis
Applications et SGBD ACID SQL (WEB et PGI)
Penser et produire "delta de productivit?"


From pixelbird at interisland.net  Sun Feb  8 20:35:33 2004
From: pixelbird at interisland.net (Ken Norris)
Date: Sun, 08 Feb 2004 17:35:33 -0800
Subject: mission critical apps; was Re: cross platform ide
In-Reply-To: <20040208170004.A9C689300E3@mail.runrev.com>
Message-ID: <BC4C23E5.4DA5%pixelbird@interisland.net>

Howdy,

> Date: Sun, 8 Feb 2004 07:07:27 -0700
> From: Rob Cozens <rcozens at pon.net>
> Subject: Re: mission critical apps; was Re: cross platform ide

> So Alex, the bottom line is Transcript gives the developer more
> options and more options = more opportunity for developer error?
> 
> If the intended objet does not receive the message, the programmer screwed up.
------------
Fascinating thread....at least for a boneheaded arty type like me (I am
always learning), but the above makes sense.

If it simply has to get there overnight (Oh, wait, that's someone else's
slogan ;-)), I simply close off everything else in the hierarchy by leaving
nil or kill messages in the path, and using unique names and ID's. The
message --> the object. The message is now on a rail, can't go anywhere
else.

I admit, the models I use are much more simplistic than you fellers seem to
be describing, but I never had one miss or get lost if I did it like I
described.

My $0.0000000002

Ken N.


From dsc at swcp.com  Sun Feb  8 20:45:17 2004
From: dsc at swcp.com (Dar Scott)
Date: Sun, 8 Feb 2004 18:45:17 -0700
Subject: xTalk Syntax (was Re: Andy's comments and positioning...)
In-Reply-To: <FDD59D24-5A97-11D8-B530-0030656FB5D4@danshafer.com>
Message-ID: <9CDF8A5E-5AA1-11D8-BF04-000A9567A3E6@swcp.com>


On Sunday, February 8, 2004, at 05:36 PM, Dan Shafer wrote:

> FWIW, I'm always, always, always going to argue against any change to 
> xTalk syntax that makes the language one iota more complex than it is.
...
> And those folks, as I said in my earlier post, are vanishingly 
> unlikely to change languages to any other tool, particularly one which 
> is accessible to those who have not "paid their dues" and become 
> members of the "Programming Priesthood."

Though you avoided comment on making the language less complex than it 
already is, I'm reminded of how politicians use the slogan "no more 
taxes!" rather than "less taxes!"

It seems that to various degrees that we have paid our xTalk dues.  
There is a learning curve.

One of the ways xTalk is complicated is in all the exceptions.  A quick 
check showed 45 articles in the documentation containing "except" and 
261 containing "cannot".

Removing exceptions can simplify xTalk and enhance its power.

I think generalizations can also simplify xTalk and enhance its power.  
(I recognize that what I call simpler, others might call something 
else.)

For example, if 'f()' is a built-in function then we can apply it as 
'f()' or 'the f'.  By why limit this to built-in?  Why not allow this 
for custom functions, too?

Right now we have 'read' and 'read socket' using two different syntaxes 
and options.  Why not allow all capability for both?

I think there is lots of room for simplifying xTalk.

(And then that will leave room for adding what I want.)

Dar Scott






From kray at sonsothunder.com  Sun Feb  8 21:22:30 2004
From: kray at sonsothunder.com (Ken Ray)
Date: Sun, 8 Feb 2004 20:22:30 -0600
Subject: xTalk Syntax (was Re: Andy's comments and positioning...)
In-Reply-To: <FDD59D24-5A97-11D8-B530-0030656FB5D4@danshafer.com>
Message-ID: <01ef01c3eeb3$94ae1860$6601a8c0@LightningFlash>


> I thought Kevin dealt well with that one the other day. If 
> anyone has a 
> perception that Rev is a Mac tool, there's not much that can 
> be done to 
> help them. The MacWorld (UK?) reviewer who said that obviously had 
> spent little or no time writing the review. Nothing at RunRev's Web 
> site, in their marketing or, anywhere else that I've seen 
> conveys that 
> message.

Sorry, Dan, I respectfully disagree. Rev has had ads or been written
about in several Mac magazines (MacWorld UK, MacAddict, MacTech), but I
have yet to see an ad or write-up in a PC magazine (and I subscribe to a
bunch). I don't know about UNIX mags, but perhaps someone else can
comment on this. Do a web search for "Runtime Revolution" and see just
how many "hits" you get for sites that advertise or promote PC
development tools or news on the PC front. 

And look at the web site - the first page (after you get past the flags)
has the words "Mac", "MacWorld" and "MacUser" all over it. I *know* this
not the norm and is because we just came out of MacWorld, and Rev won an
Eddy in MacWorld magazine, but for people going to the site in the last
couple of months, it helps to form an opinion that Rev is primarily a
Mac tool.

And speaking of MacWorld, RunRev has been at conventions selling Rev,
but what kinds of conventions? Almost exclusively Mac conventions
(AFAIK). And once again, regardless for the reason for it, it adds to
the "buzz" about Rev as a Mac tool.

Additionally, Rev is very often compared to RealBasic - primarily known
as a Mac development environment - and that doesn't help its image one
bit. 

Finally, there are a handful of features that need to be in the product
(IMHO) to be "taken seriously" in the PC community (ActiveX support,
Win32 DLL access, etc.), which may be part of the reason it's not been
covered in the PC trades.

Look, I'm not trying to say that what RunRev's doing is not helping sell
boxes, but what I *am* saying is that the groundswell of commentary on
Rev is in the Mac community. And to shake that off and truly be a
cross-platform tool, RunRev will need to balance the Mac marketing with
marketing in the Windows and UNIX communities, when it is the
appropriate time to do so.

Just my $0.02,

Ken Ray
Sons of Thunder Software
Email: kray at sonsothunder.com
Web Site: http://www.sonsothunder.com/ 



From frank at backtalk.com  Sun Feb  8 21:29:52 2004
From: frank at backtalk.com (Frank Leahy)
Date: Mon, 9 Feb 2004 02:29:52 +0000
Subject: Is Transcript's English orientation a plus or minus? 
In-Reply-To: <20040209014549.C401593013A@mail.runrev.com>
Message-ID: <D72E7C07-5AA7-11D8-9A91-000A9580FCCE@backtalk.com>


On Monday, February 9, 2004, at 01:45  AM, 
use-revolution-request at lists.runrev.com wrote:

> Of course with Transcript, the = operator means the same thing that 
> the ==
> operator means in other languages. That probably can't be changed 
> anymore or
> everything wouldn't be backwards compatible. So some other kind of
> assignment operator would be needed like

A parser works by looking for "tokens", such as "put" or "set" or "if". 
  When the parser sees the "if" token, it could decide that the "=" 
between the "if" and the "then" is a comparison operator (as opposed to 
an assignment operator).  Similarly, when the parser sees "x = 1 + 2" 
at the beginning of a line, it could recognize this = as meaning 
assignment (as opposed to comparison).

In other words, there's no reason these two couldn't be defined to be 
identical in xTalk:

if a = b then
   put 1 into x
end if

if a = b then
   x = 1
end if

(this latter is the same in VB, for example)

 > Some languages overload = to mean 'defined as' in some contexts and
 >'equals' in others.  Mathematics is in the same situation and some
 >folks use a different symbol to mean 'defined as'.
 >
 >Dar Scott

See the note above -- the context can be used to tell the parser 
whether = means assignment or comparison.

 >Yes, but *only* if it allows both syntaxes. Over the years that I've
 > watched languages evolve, they too often leave a syntax behind as they
 > evolve to a new one. Dot notation isn't hard to learn, but it, again,

The first versions of Lingo (Director), which was quite similar to 
HyperTalk, supported both "put" and assignment = syntax, so you could 
write either "put 1 into x" or "x = 1".  There's no reason xTalk 
couldn't do the same.

 > x = y + z (instead of put y + z into x)
 > x += 1 (instead of add 1 to x)
 > x.myProperty = foo (instead of set myProperty of x to foo)"
 >
 > Sorry, Frank, but I just flat disagree. Those syntaxes -- in 
particular
 > the far-too-cryptic and unreadably annoying "x += 1" -- are 
off-putting
 > to all but professional programmers with backgrounds in C/C++/Java. 
And

Disagreeing right back at you.  If you want professionals to use Rev, 
then you need standard assignment statement syntax -- without them 
Revolution looks like a hobbyist language rather than a real working 
language ("oh, it's just HyperTalk, and we all know that wasn't a 
'real' language/development environment")  And since it's perfectly 
possible to support "x = 1" without affecting the current "put" and 
"set" statements, I would argue that they should consider adding it.

[changing topics]

 >Removing exceptions can simplify xTalk and enhance its power.

You mean try/catch/end try?  It might simplify things, but it sure 
won't enhance anybody's power.  There are numerous places that common 
functions can fail in xTalk (e.g. set the fileName of an image to an 
alias file -- oops)  Since xTalk has no consistent failure reporting 
mechanism, exceptions are really the only reasonable way to handle 
exceptional conditions without having tons of if statements littered 
throughout your code. (What, you mean you don't handle error 
conditions?  Shame on you :-)


 >For example, if 'f()' is a built-in function then we can apply it as
 >'f()' or 'the f'.  By why limit this to built-in?  Why not allow this
 > for custom functions, too?

I'd second this idea as well.

-- Frank




From 3mcgrath at adelphia.net  Sun Feb  8 21:41:50 2004
From: 3mcgrath at adelphia.net (Thomas McGrath III)
Date: Sun, 8 Feb 2004 21:41:50 -0500
Subject: mission critical apps; was Re: cross platform ide
In-Reply-To: <BC4C23E5.4DA5%pixelbird@interisland.net>
References: <BC4C23E5.4DA5%pixelbird@interisland.net>
Message-ID: <832C4D6A-5AA9-11D8-B742-000A95DA60FA@adelphia.net>

Your the man, Ken.
:-)

Tom


On Feb 8, 2004, at 8:35 PM, Ken Norris wrote:

> Howdy,
>
>> Date: Sun, 8 Feb 2004 07:07:27 -0700
>> From: Rob Cozens <rcozens at pon.net>
>> Subject: Re: mission critical apps; was Re: cross platform ide
>
>> So Alex, the bottom line is Transcript gives the developer more
>> options and more options = more opportunity for developer error?
>>
>> If the intended objet does not receive the message, the programmer 
>> screwed up.
> ------------
> Fascinating thread....at least for a boneheaded arty type like me (I am
> always learning), but the above makes sense.
>
> If it simply has to get there overnight (Oh, wait, that's someone 
> else's
> slogan ;-)), I simply close off everything else in the hierarchy by 
> leaving
> nil or kill messages in the path, and using unique names and ID's. The
> message --> the object. The message is now on a rail, can't go anywhere
> else.
>
> I admit, the models I use are much more simplistic than you fellers 
> seem to
> be describing, but I never had one miss or get lost if I did it like I
> described.
>
> My $0.0000000002
>
> Ken N.
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>
>

Thomas J. McGrath III
SCS
1000 Killarney Dr.
Pittsburgh, PA 15234
412-885-8541


From 3mcgrath at adelphia.net  Sun Feb  8 21:51:13 2004
From: 3mcgrath at adelphia.net (Thomas McGrath III)
Date: Sun, 8 Feb 2004 21:51:13 -0500
Subject: xTalk Syntax (was Re: Andy's comments and positioning...)
In-Reply-To: <01ef01c3eeb3$94ae1860$6601a8c0@LightningFlash>
References: <01ef01c3eeb3$94ae1860$6601a8c0@LightningFlash>
Message-ID: <D2874493-5AAA-11D8-B742-000A95DA60FA@adelphia.net>

Ken,
I just did a search on advanced Google as follows:

Find all of the words "Runtime Revolution" and Without the words 
"Macintosh" and found 25,300 matches.
That's 25,300 matches that don't mention Macintosh!!!

I did the same search without windows as follows:

Find all of the words "Runtime Revolution" and Without the words 
"Windows" and found 20,700 matches.
That's only 20,700 matches that don't mention Windows!!!

This tells me that Windows is mentioned on more sites for Run Rev than 
Macintosh is!!!

FWIW

Tom

On Feb 8, 2004, at 9:22 PM, Ken Ray wrote:

> Sorry, Dan, I respectfully disagree. Rev has had ads or been written
> about in several Mac magazines (MacWorld UK, MacAddict, MacTech), but I
> have yet to see an ad or write-up in a PC magazine (and I subscribe to 
> a
> bunch). I don't know about UNIX mags, but perhaps someone else can
> comment on this. Do a web search for "Runtime Revolution" and see just
> how many "hits" you get for sites that advertise or promote PC
> development tools or news on the PC front.
>

Thomas J. McGrath III
SCS
1000 Killarney Dr.
Pittsburgh, PA 15234
412-885-8541


From dsc at swcp.com  Sun Feb  8 21:53:31 2004
From: dsc at swcp.com (Dar Scott)
Date: Sun, 8 Feb 2004 19:53:31 -0700
Subject: Is Transcript's English orientation a plus or minus? 
In-Reply-To: <D72E7C07-5AA7-11D8-9A91-000A9580FCCE@backtalk.com>
Message-ID: <24FD803C-5AAB-11D8-BF04-000A9567A3E6@swcp.com>

on soapbox

On Sunday, February 8, 2004, at 07:29 PM, Frank Leahy wrote:

> >Removing exceptions can simplify xTalk and enhance its power.
>
> You mean try/catch/end try?  It might simplify things, but it sure 
> won't enhance anybody's power.  There are numerous places that common 
> functions can fail in xTalk (e.g. set the fileName of an image to an 
> alias file -- oops)  Since xTalk has no consistent failure reporting 
> mechanism, exceptions are really the only reasonable way to handle 
> exceptional conditions without having tons of if statements littered 
> throughout your code. (What, you mean you don't handle error 
> conditions?  Shame on you :-)

My error.  Wrong word.

I mean all the places where the semantics has an "except" or "but not" 
or "is limited to" or "must already" or similar.

For example, a key in an array cannot contain a NUL character.  Also, 
the second delimiter of combine cannot be NUL.  (The TD also disallows 
others.)

Can I use an expression for a property name?  Is the answer yes, no or 
'um, that's a little complicated'?

I do use 'try', even though I write perfect code.  ;-)  Of 'catch' and 
'finally' can you remember which ones are optional and which ones are 
required?

You can use an array variable as an parameter in a function 
application.  You can even return it as the value of the function if it 
is put directly into a variable.  But you cannot return an array from a 
function application that is an expression that is a parameter for 
another function.  eg:  put fixArray( fixArray( arrayX ) ) into arrayY

If I 'put 2 into x', the variable x might be made for me, but 
matchText() and decodeBinary() (according to the TD) need the variables 
to be already created.

This goes on and on.

Dar Scott

end soapbox


From 3mcgrath at adelphia.net  Sun Feb  8 22:03:39 2004
From: 3mcgrath at adelphia.net (Thomas McGrath III)
Date: Sun, 8 Feb 2004 22:03:39 -0500
Subject: xTalk Syntax (was Re: Andy's comments and positioning...)
In-Reply-To: <D2874493-5AAA-11D8-B742-000A95DA60FA@adelphia.net>
References: <01ef01c3eeb3$94ae1860$6601a8c0@LightningFlash>
	<D2874493-5AAA-11D8-B742-000A95DA60FA@adelphia.net>
Message-ID: <8F3CC491-5AAC-11D8-B742-000A95DA60FA@adelphia.net>

AND FWIW,

Find all of the words "Runtime Revolution" and Without the words 
"Windows, Macintosh" and found 20,600 matches.

Find all of the words "Runtime Revolution" found 27,100 matches.

So, I figure 1,800 sites mention Macintosh and 6,400 mention 
Windows!!!!!

I don't know but that sounds kinda Windows biased as far as Runtime 
Revolution is concerned, or it may be all hogwash.
But, yes winning the Mac award may seem biased but maybe soon Rev can 
win the PCWorld award too!!!!!

All in fun, :-)

Tom


On Feb 8, 2004, at 9:51 PM, Thomas McGrath III wrote:

> Ken,
> I just did a search on advanced Google as follows:
>
> Find all of the words "Runtime Revolution" and Without the words 
> "Macintosh" and found 25,300 matches.
> That's 25,300 matches that don't mention Macintosh!!!
>
> I did the same search without windows as follows:
>
> Find all of the words "Runtime Revolution" and Without the words 
> "Windows" and found 20,700 matches.
> That's only 20,700 matches that don't mention Windows!!!
>
> This tells me that Windows is mentioned on more sites for Run Rev than 
> Macintosh is!!!
>
> FWIW
>
> Tom
>
> On Feb 8, 2004, at 9:22 PM, Ken Ray wrote:
>
>> Sorry, Dan, I respectfully disagree. Rev has had ads or been written
>> about in several Mac magazines (MacWorld UK, MacAddict, MacTech), but 
>> I
>> have yet to see an ad or write-up in a PC magazine (and I subscribe 
>> to a
>> bunch). I don't know about UNIX mags, but perhaps someone else can
>> comment on this. Do a web search for "Runtime Revolution" and see just
>> how many "hits" you get for sites that advertise or promote PC
>> development tools or news on the PC front.
>>
>
> Thomas J. McGrath III
> SCS
> 1000 Killarney Dr.
> Pittsburgh, PA 15234
> 412-885-8541
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>
>

Thomas J. McGrath III
SCS
1000 Killarney Dr.
Pittsburgh, PA 15234
412-885-8541


From briany at qldlearning.com  Sun Feb  8 22:10:09 2004
From: briany at qldlearning.com (Brian Yennie)
Date: Sun, 8 Feb 2004 22:10:09 -0500
Subject: Bugzilla
In-Reply-To: <9CDF8A5E-5AA1-11D8-BF04-000A9567A3E6@swcp.com>
Message-ID: <77C5431C-5AAD-11D8-A5DB-000393AA08D2@qldlearning.com>

First off, wanted to commend RunRev for creating a BugZilla presence. 
It should be even better with all of the ongoing updates.

With that said, I'm curious. What systems were considered for the bug 
tracking? Do list members here use any of them with their Rev projects?

I've recently embarked on a project use ZenTrack- which I picked over 
Bugzilla for ease-of-use, clean interface, etc. Bugzilla appears to 
have more features. So far I like ZenTrack better.

www.zentrack.net for anyone curious- I suggest going straight to the 
demo.

What about the rest of you?

- Brian


From 3mcgrath at adelphia.net  Sun Feb  8 22:19:37 2004
From: 3mcgrath at adelphia.net (Thomas McGrath III)
Date: Sun, 8 Feb 2004 22:19:37 -0500
Subject: xTalk Syntax (was Re: Andy's comments and positioning...)
In-Reply-To: <8F3CC491-5AAC-11D8-B742-000A95DA60FA@adelphia.net>
References: <01ef01c3eeb3$94ae1860$6601a8c0@LightningFlash>
	<D2874493-5AAA-11D8-B742-000A95DA60FA@adelphia.net>
	<8F3CC491-5AAC-11D8-B742-000A95DA60FA@adelphia.net>
Message-ID: <CA3523E9-5AAE-11D8-B742-000A95DA60FA@adelphia.net>

AND if you aren't sick of this yet!!!!

Find all of the words "Runtime Revolution" and without the words "Unix" 
and found 24,500 matches.

So Unix gets 2,600 sites coming in second and Macintosh coming in last.

HHmmm,

It's probably hogwash but hey what the heck it was worth a try......

Tom

On Feb 8, 2004, at 10:03 PM, Thomas McGrath III wrote:

> AND FWIW,
>
> Find all of the words "Runtime Revolution" and Without the words 
> "Windows, Macintosh" and found 20,600 matches.
>
> Find all of the words "Runtime Revolution" found 27,100 matches.
>
> So, I figure 1,800 sites mention Macintosh and 6,400 mention 
> Windows!!!!!
>
> I don't know but that sounds kinda Windows biased as far as Runtime 
> Revolution is concerned, or it may be all hogwash.
> But, yes winning the Mac award may seem biased but maybe soon Rev can 
> win the PCWorld award too!!!!!
>
> All in fun, :-)
>
> Tom
>
>
> On Feb 8, 2004, at 9:51 PM, Thomas McGrath III wrote:
>
>> Ken,
>> I just did a search on advanced Google as follows:
>>
>> Find all of the words "Runtime Revolution" and Without the words 
>> "Macintosh" and found 25,300 matches.
>> That's 25,300 matches that don't mention Macintosh!!!
>>
>> I did the same search without windows as follows:
>>
>> Find all of the words "Runtime Revolution" and Without the words 
>> "Windows" and found 20,700 matches.
>> That's only 20,700 matches that don't mention Windows!!!
>>
>> This tells me that Windows is mentioned on more sites for Run Rev 
>> than Macintosh is!!!
>>
>> FWIW
>>
>> Tom
>>
>> On Feb 8, 2004, at 9:22 PM, Ken Ray wrote:
>>
>>> Sorry, Dan, I respectfully disagree. Rev has had ads or been written
>>> about in several Mac magazines (MacWorld UK, MacAddict, MacTech), 
>>> but I
>>> have yet to see an ad or write-up in a PC magazine (and I subscribe 
>>> to a
>>> bunch). I don't know about UNIX mags, but perhaps someone else can
>>> comment on this. Do a web search for "Runtime Revolution" and see 
>>> just
>>> how many "hits" you get for sites that advertise or promote PC
>>> development tools or news on the PC front.
>>>
>>
>> Thomas J. McGrath III
>> SCS
>> 1000 Killarney Dr.
>> Pittsburgh, PA 15234
>> 412-885-8541
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> use-revolution mailing list
>> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>>
>>
>
> Thomas J. McGrath III
> SCS
> 1000 Killarney Dr.
> Pittsburgh, PA 15234
> 412-885-8541
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>
>

Thomas J. McGrath III
SCS
1000 Killarney Dr.
Pittsburgh, PA 15234
412-885-8541


From soapdog at mac.com  Sun Feb  8 23:18:57 2004
From: soapdog at mac.com (Andre Garzia)
Date: Mon, 9 Feb 2004 02:18:57 -0200
Subject: ANN: alpha of XML-RPC Stack.
Message-ID: <146A58A9-5AB7-11D8-946C-0003936D012E@mac.com>

Hi Folks,

I've been working in a Rev implementation for the XML-RPC spec for a 
while.  Since then I moved all my efforts to the revHTTPd framework, 
but this simple stack is a nice example of how to use XML-RPC. It's not 
as polished as SOAP Toolbox stack. Is just a simple thing I did while 
learning Rev. I think it should be created again from the scratch, but 
I do not have the time now so I am releasing the code as public domain.

You can use it by making it a library of your stack.
this is a little doc on the stack.

Globals:
gParamsA		-- Array containing the parameters.

You should not access this array unless you want to add complex types 
on your own. Each item is a "XML-RPC Item Element", or in plain 
english, it's a string with a xml piece that contains the item content 
and it's type.

---------

gXMLRPCAnswer	-- Raw XML-RPC Answer.

This is the server response in plain XML. You must parse this yourself, 
there's no built-in parsing.


---------
Functions:
---------

RevXMLRPCAddParam type, parameter.

Call this to add a parameter to gParamsA array, remember to zero it 
when you're making a new request or old parameters will be inside it. 
The first parameter is a valid XML-RPC type like: "string" or "i4", the 
other is the content. Remember that XML-RPC parameters are order based 
and not key based, so add them respecting your specs.

example:
get revXMLRPCAddParam( "string", "power to the developer")
---------

revXMLRPCRequest URL, Method

Use this to make a request. The first parameter is a valid XML-RPC 
Endpoint, the second the method to call. The return value will be 
filled with the server response. You must parse it yourself

example:
get revXMLRPCRequest  ("http://betty.userland.com/RPC2", 
"examples.getStateName")
---------

CallXMLRPC URL, Raw Request XML

Use this to make complex calls containing structs or arrays. Generate 
yourseld the XML and pipe it thru this function. This is the safe way 
to use structs or arrays. The return value will be the server answer

Example:
get field "xml request"
get CallXMLRPC("http://betty.userland.com/RPC2", it)
put it into field "answer"
---------

Tips & Tricks

Remember to zero the gParamsA array if you want to start a new call. If 
you want to add complex types and to not want to generate the code 
yourself, then just generate the needed piece of XML for your complex 
types, and add them to gParamsA by hand. This is easier than generating 
all the XML. For example: you have a call that needs a name, a 
password, an array with something. Then use revXMLRPCAddParam to add 
the name and password, generate yourself the part for the array, use 
put to insert it at gParamsA and call revXMLRPCRequest, this will work.

---------

This code is old, I am much wiser now. I would make things different, 
but, this is what I did. This was my first Rev project, you'll find all 
the mistakes of the newbies inside it, but it's a nice toy and it could 
be put to production level very easy. I am releasing it for I am not 
working in it and someone might want to look and make it better.

It's xmlrpc.zip and it's stored at http://public.soapdog.org

Anyway send comments to me at soapdog at mac.com

and our homepage is http://www.soapdog.org

Cheers
Andre
   	


-- 
Andre Alves Garzia ? 2004 ? BRAZIL
http://studio.soapdog.org


From eudio at chabashira.co.jp  Sun Feb  8 23:28:58 2004
From: eudio at chabashira.co.jp (UDI)
Date: Mon, 9 Feb 2004 13:28:58 +0900
Subject: xTalk JPEG parser?
In-Reply-To: <p0602040dbc4c86faeda1@[192.168.1.100]>
References: <p0602040dbc4c86faeda1@[192.168.1.100]>
Message-ID: <20040209042859.10733@mail.chabashira.co.jp>

I wrote the script which examine width and height of JPEG.
http://homepage.mac.com/udi/stack/getJpegPixelSize.hqx

It is NOT difficult. It chases markers, and looks for data.
But it is terribly TROUBLESOME.

I have not tried Exif, but its basic structure is the same.


UDI
eudio at chabashira.co.jp
http://homepage.mac.com/udi/

From mwieder at ahsoftware.net  Mon Feb  9 00:35:24 2004
From: mwieder at ahsoftware.net (Mark Wieder)
Date: Sun, 8 Feb 2004 21:35:24 -0800
Subject: xTalk Syntax (was Re: Andy's comments and positioning...)
In-Reply-To: <D2874493-5AAA-11D8-B742-000A95DA60FA@adelphia.net>
References: <01ef01c3eeb3$94ae1860$6601a8c0@LightningFlash>
 <D2874493-5AAA-11D8-B742-000A95DA60FA@adelphia.net>
Message-ID: <3848930338.20040208213524@ahsoftware.net>

Thomas-

Well, I wouldn't put too much faith in those Google searches. A search
for "Runtime Revolution" without "macintosh" turned up some 33,000
hits, but many on just the first page either went to RunRev or to
MacWorld. So, while it's true that "macintosh" doesn't show up on
those pages, "mac" certainly does. And "PC" shows up even when
"windows" doesn't.

Also keep in mind that that's 33,000 *pages*, not sites, i.e., that
RunRev page that shows up at the top of the list is just the intro
page - the site itself is obviously full of references to platforms.

Good clean fun, though. I can get lost for hours doing Google
searches. Ya never know where you'll end up... some of the Japanese
runrev links were quite interesting.

-- 
-Mark Wieder
 mwieder at ahsoftware.net


From stephenREVOLUTION at barncard.com  Mon Feb  9 00:41:46 2004
From: stephenREVOLUTION at barncard.com (Stephen Quinn Barncard)
Date: Sun, 8 Feb 2004 21:41:46 -0800
Subject: xTalk JPEG parser?
Message-ID: <p0602040fbc4ccd7b73e9@[192.168.1.100]>

?? If it was not difficult, then how can it be troublesome? Please 
explain! Does it not work reliably? I mean it works or it doesn't!!


>I wrote the script which examine width and height of JPEG.
>http://homepage.mac.com/udi/stack/getJpegPixelSize.hqx
>
>It is NOT difficult. It chases markers, and looks for data.
>But it is terribly TROUBLESOME.
>
>I have not tried Exif, but its basic structure is the same.
>
>
>UDI
>eudio at chabashira.co.jp
>http://homepage.mac.com/udi/

From erik.lips at zonnet.nl  Mon Feb  9 00:52:02 2004
From: erik.lips at zonnet.nl (erik.lips at zonnet.nl)
Date: Mon,  9 Feb 2004 06:52:02 +0100
Subject: ODBC database: cannot find input table or query message.
Message-ID: <1076305922.40272002b3876@webmail.zonnet.nl>

A very basic database question. The script below gives an error and some 
help explaining this is highly appreciated. I must do something wrong.

on mouseUp
   put revopendatabase("ODBC","AAF database",,,) into aafdbid
   if aafdbid is a number then
-- This is indeed a number.
    answer aafdbid
     put revQueryDatabase(aafdbid,"SELECT * FROM naam") into mycursor
     answer mycursor
   else
    answer "Database could not be opened."
   end if
end mouseUp


This script gives the following message:

[Microsoft][ODBC Microsoft Access Driver] The Microsoft Jet database 
engine cannot find the input table or query 'naam'.  Make sure it 
exists and that its name is spelled correctly.


Many thanks in advance.

Erik

PS: Noticed that posts to the list do not always come through. Is that 
normal?


-- 
_____________________________________________________________________
Zon Gratis ADSL. De voordelen van gratis internet met de snelheid van
ADSL. Zonder abonnementskosten en zonder vast contract. Je betaalt
alleen voor de tijd online. Nu zonder aansluitkosten en met gratis
modem. Bestel snel op zonnet.nl.


From alex at mindlube.com  Mon Feb  9 01:09:01 2004
From: alex at mindlube.com (Alex Rice)
Date: Sun, 8 Feb 2004 23:09:01 -0700
Subject: mission critical apps; was Re: cross platform ide
In-Reply-To: <BC4C23E5.4DA5%pixelbird@interisland.net>
References: <BC4C23E5.4DA5%pixelbird@interisland.net>
Message-ID: <74DB9F45-5AC6-11D8-BF4E-000393C4760A@mindlube.com>

"Well *I* can write reliable code in transcript". Of course! If we all 
didn't believe that we would not be using Runrev as our favorite 
development tool right?

I don't mean to be pedantic about this. I want anyone trying to write 
business apps with runrev to succeed. Before you can succeed you have 
to get in the door. Before you can get in the door you have to justify 
and get funding for your dev. tools, or get a client to sign off on a 
technical spec of the project. I am just raising issues that I think 
runrev users should be aware of if they are bringing runrev into 
corporate IT environments, where correctness and reliability is 
important. By "important" I don't mean important because some suit 
likes the buzzword "mission-critical". I mean where $, property, or 
safety is actually at stake.

Rob C wrote:
> If the intended objet does not receive the message, the programmer 
> screwed up.

The question I am raising is not whether it is possible for programmers 
to screw up using xtalk code, rather: how are you going to sell xtalks 
in a corporate environment where reliability and correctness is more 
important than programmer productivity? Imagine a manager or programmer 
is in your face asking for a justification of the xtalk/smalltalk 
messaging model where the message traipses up the message path, landing 
on whatever object it may land (in their subjective view, that is). 
It's a legitimate question, issue, and (perhaps) there are places where 
xtalks are not a good solution. A very few places.

Ken N wrote:
>  The
> message --> the object. The message is now on a rail, can't go anywhere
> else.

Your "rails" concept is appealing, but in reality you don't know until 
*at runtime* if the message lands where you intended. Furthermore, 
getting the message to the object is only part of the problem. Ensuring 
the object can accept the message is the other part: the message having 
the right number and type of parameters.

What's worse is in complex apps you are probably going to be 
manipulating the message path with "send", "start using", or evaluating 
dynamic code with "do" or "value". I deduce from the existence of such 
language features: the message is not on a rail. In other words, the 
message path can change at runtime.

Even if the message path is not changing at runtime, it's still tricky. 
Something that has bitten me many times in transcript is sending a 
message to "this card" or "this stack" only to discover this card or 
this stack was not the one *I thought I was sending to*.

Ken N wrote:
> I admit, the models I use are much more simplistic than you fellers 
> seem to
> be describing, but I never had one miss or get lost if I did it like I
> described.

Again: formalize it and be able to explain it to managers and other 
programmers. Make a case study for runrev to post on their website. Or 
write a HOW-To and post it to RevNet. Seriously. I'm not singling you 
out Ken; anyone who's thinking the same thing, I challenge you.

Myself, I admit to having lots of message path problems. There is a 
learning curve about the message path. I guess it depends what kind of 
apps you are writing and whether you use "send" , "do" , "value", 
"start using"; the features of the language that involve different 
parts of the message path.

Also, consider the possibility that maybe you don't even know if 
messages not reaching their destination. Did you know there is a bug 
with errorDialog in standalones, and with try/catch exception handling 
in the IDE? Dar once filed a bug that messages start getting unreliable 
after many million messages or weeks of runtime (I forget the details 
or even if it was a legitimate bug). Issues like these will thwart even 
the most well intentioned and diligent xtalk programmer.

The questions I intended to bring up were:

1) In a technical interview, or when trying to sell an xtalk solution 
to corporate IT dept, you may run into someone who challenges the 
xtalk/smalltalk messaging model. I described in a previous post that 
interview where the Java engineer was challenging me about Objective-C. 
It's possible the issue will come up for other 
xtalk/smalltalk/objective-C programmers too.

2) Is a tool that's really good for games and multimedia also a good 
tool for making ultra-reliable business applications? There is an 
saying something like: When all you have is a hammer, everything looks 
like a nail. Can the 'All talking All singing All dancing' Runrev 
really be the 1 true tool that we want it to be?

Another anecdote:

I wrote some Perl CGI programs at an insurance company, for auto and 
homeowners policies. There were definitely mission critical aspects 
because large amounts of money were involved in the transactions. But 
the Perl CGI programs were just taking initial information for new 
policy applications, and providing quotes, before a policy was even 
active. So it's OK that the Perl code was rushed and hastily done and 
that it was _Perl_ which is even more weird and flexible and dynamic as 
xtalk. It's OK: because the mission critical stuff like billing, claims 
and actuarials were done in some other language, probably in Oracle 
PL/SQL. In hindsight Runrev could have been fine for the former purpose 
(the Perl part), but not the latter (the Oracle PL/SQL part).

--
Alex Rice | Mindlube Software | http://mindlube.com


From eudio at chabashira.co.jp  Mon Feb  9 01:30:32 2004
From: eudio at chabashira.co.jp (UDI)
Date: Mon, 9 Feb 2004 15:30:32 +0900
Subject: xTalk JPEG parser?
In-Reply-To: <p0602040fbc4ccd7b73e9@[192.168.1.100]>
References: <p0602040fbc4ccd7b73e9@[192.168.1.100]>
Message-ID: <20040209063033.14876@mail.chabashira.co.jp>

Stephen Quinn Barncard wrote 04.2.8 09:41 PM?
>?? If it was not difficult, then how can it be troublesome? Please 
>explain! Does it not work reliably? I mean it works or it doesn't!!

Sorry, My English is very clumsy.

Work is very simple.
 get first offset
 get first marker by the offset
 repeat
  If the marker is a thing for the purpose, take out data
  else, take out an offset after a marker
  get the next marker by the offset
 end repeat

You have to grasp kind of markers.
Work itself is very simple. But it takes trouble very much.


UDI
eudio at chabashira.co.jp
http://homepage.mac.com/udi/

From alex at mindlube.com  Mon Feb  9 01:37:00 2004
From: alex at mindlube.com (Alex Rice)
Date: Sun, 8 Feb 2004 23:37:00 -0700
Subject: Bug Database Changes Completed - PLEASE READ!
In-Reply-To: <1076265434.3125.15.camel@voyager>
References: <1076265434.3125.15.camel@voyager>
Message-ID: <5DA22D9E-5ACA-11D8-BF4E-000393C4760A@mindlube.com>


On Feb 8, 2004, at 11:37 AM, Mark Chia wrote:

> The changes to the Bugzilla have been completed and tested. It is
> important for everyone to read what has changed and to get an
> understanding of how this impacts on the management of bugs. Therefore,
> please read this message in its entirety.

Great! Couple of workflow questions:

> Here's the workflow for the new system:
>   ...
>        2c-ii) If it cannot be reproduced, a comment is added to the
>                bug to ask the original submitter if they can come
>                up with another recipe (since we couldn't reproduce
>                it) and the status remains PENDING. If we ever *can*
>                reproduce it, we act as (2c-i) above. If we can
>                *never* reproduce it, we change the status to
>                RESOLVED and the resolution to CANT_REPRODUCE. The
>                Target Milestone is then set to the targetted
>                release version.

What time period elapses before it's decided to change to 
CANT_REPRODUCE. What should happen if it's changed to CANT_REPRODUCE 
while the user is still trying to come up with a recipe that works for 
the engineers? A too quick CANT_REPRODUCE could really push someone 
over the brink if they are going insane over a bug.

> 3) Bugs marked NEW are reviewed by the person to whom they were
>    assigned. If the assignee feels that they are the right person to
>    fix the bug, they change the status of the bug to ASSIGNED. If
>    the assignee feels they are *not* the right person to fix the
>    bug, the status is left as NEW, but the bug is reassigned to
>    someone else, and the new assignee does the same review.

So when a bug is NEW, then it is actually "tentatively assigned", and 
an engineer is looking at it? When it's accepted by the engineer then 
it's declared ASSIGNED?

> 5) When a new interim build is released to the RunRev development
>    team, the QA person will check the RESOLVED bugs against the new
>    build. If a bug is actually fixed, the status is set to CLOSED.

Sounds solid.

>
> Ken Ray is new Bugzilla Maintainer

OK Ken!


--
Alex Rice | Mindlube Software | http://mindlube.com


From erikhans08 at yahoo.com  Mon Feb  9 01:46:46 2004
From: erikhans08 at yahoo.com (erik hansen)
Date: Sun, 8 Feb 2004 22:46:46 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Quicktime in Windows: best way to go?
In-Reply-To: <opr2qx3vzg7hj683@smtp.wanadoo.fr>
Message-ID: <20040209064646.61198.qmail@web61101.mail.yahoo.com>


> Quicktime is a good solution for cross platform
> apps
> *IF* you dont need Linux
> *IF* your users have administrative rights on
> their computer (Quicktime is 
> not installed by default on Windows computers)
> *IF* Apple do not change his license policy of
> Quicktime suddenly (already 
> happens few years ago)
> 
> I used Quicktime for Windows apps succesfully
> for Point of Informations, 
> but i had nightmares with widely distributed
> CD-ROM because my end-users 
> didn't know how to install Quicktime, or where
> not allowed to do it or 
> there was some failure in the installation
> process.
> 
> For windows only apps DirectX is a much better
> solution, but unfortunately 
> not supported yet by revolution.
> 
> It would be very fine if Revolution could
> support natively the Flash 
> Player, because the flash player displays very
> well sounds, vector graphic 
> animation and digital video and is avalaible on
> Mac, Windows and Linux.

what about Windows Media Player?


=====
erik at erikhansen.org    http://www.erikhansen.org

__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Finance: Get your refund fast by filing online.
http://taxes.yahoo.com/filing.html

From 3mcgrath at adelphia.net  Mon Feb  9 02:06:26 2004
From: 3mcgrath at adelphia.net (Thomas McGrath III)
Date: Mon, 9 Feb 2004 02:06:26 -0500
Subject: xTalk Syntax (was Re: Andy's comments and positioning...)
In-Reply-To: <3848930338.20040208213524@ahsoftware.net>
References: <01ef01c3eeb3$94ae1860$6601a8c0@LightningFlash>
	<D2874493-5AAA-11D8-B742-000A95DA60FA@adelphia.net>
	<3848930338.20040208213524@ahsoftware.net>
Message-ID: <7A491EDC-5ACE-11D8-B742-000A95DA60FA@adelphia.net>

Yes, Mark I was delighted by the Japanese sites. I went to a few of 
them but was very lost. I did find a pdf on using REV in an othello 
type game that I am finding very interesting. So although I knew about 
what you mention below concerning Google I still enjoyed do it and 
checking out  a lot of the pages.

Still though, the numbers themselves are not very trustworthy but I 
think the percentages may say something?? But I sure would not bet my 
paycheck on any of it.

Thanks for seeing the fun of it.

Tom

On Feb 9, 2004, at 12:35 AM, Mark Wieder wrote:

> Thomas-
>
> Well, I wouldn't put too much faith in those Google searches. A search
> for "Runtime Revolution" without "macintosh" turned up some 33,000
> hits, but many on just the first page either went to RunRev or to
> MacWorld. So, while it's true that "macintosh" doesn't show up on
> those pages, "mac" certainly does. And "PC" shows up even when
> "windows" doesn't.
>
> Also keep in mind that that's 33,000 *pages*, not sites, i.e., that
> RunRev page that shows up at the top of the list is just the intro
> page - the site itself is obviously full of references to platforms.
>
> Good clean fun, though. I can get lost for hours doing Google
> searches. Ya never know where you'll end up... some of the Japanese
> runrev links were quite interesting.
>
> -- 
> -Mark Wieder
>  mwieder at ahsoftware.net
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>
>

Thomas J. McGrath III
SCS
1000 Killarney Dr.
Pittsburgh, PA 15234
412-885-8541


From chipp at chipp.com  Mon Feb  9 02:12:18 2004
From: chipp at chipp.com (Chipp Walters)
Date: Mon, 9 Feb 2004 01:12:18 -0600
Subject: xTalk Syntax (was Re: Andy's comments and positioning...)
In-Reply-To: <01ef01c3eeb3$94ae1860$6601a8c0@LightningFlash>
Message-ID: <GGEOJBEEGFHLDOFIMMPIOEPEFPAA.chipp@chipp.com>

I'm in agreement with Ken on this one. As mainly a PC user, it is obvious to
me that RR is marketing mainly at Mac users. This is because ex-HyperCard
users are the 'low hanging fruit' for RR - and a company like RR with
limited resources wants to make the easy sales first.

While Tom's GOOGLING efforts may be good for a chuckle, they are in no way
indicitive of how RR targets their tool. Ken's points are well taken. If RR
wants to be taken seriously as a professional cross-platform development
tool, they will have to change their messaging.

-Chipp


> Sorry, Dan, I respectfully disagree. Rev has had ads or been written
> about in several Mac magazines (MacWorld UK, MacAddict, MacTech), but I
> have yet to see an ad or write-up in a PC magazine (and I subscribe to a
> bunch). I don't know about UNIX mags, but perhaps someone else can
> comment on this. Do a web search for "Runtime Revolution" and see just
> how many "hits" you get for sites that advertise or promote PC
> development tools or news on the PC front.
>
> And look at the web site - the first page (after you get past the flags)
> has the words "Mac", "MacWorld" and "MacUser" all over it. I *know* this
> not the norm and is because we just came out of MacWorld, and Rev won an
> Eddy in MacWorld magazine, but for people going to the site in the last
> couple of months, it helps to form an opinion that Rev is primarily a
> Mac tool.
>
> And speaking of MacWorld, RunRev has been at conventions selling Rev,
> but what kinds of conventions? Almost exclusively Mac conventions
> (AFAIK). And once again, regardless for the reason for it, it adds to
> the "buzz" about Rev as a Mac tool.
>
> Additionally, Rev is very often compared to RealBasic - primarily known
> as a Mac development environment - and that doesn't help its image one
> bit.
>
> Finally, there are a handful of features that need to be in the product
> (IMHO) to be "taken seriously" in the PC community (ActiveX support,
> Win32 DLL access, etc.), which may be part of the reason it's not been
> covered in the PC trades.
>
> Look, I'm not trying to say that what RunRev's doing is not helping sell
> boxes, but what I *am* saying is that the groundswell of commentary on
> Rev is in the Mac community. And to shake that off and truly be a
> cross-platform tool, RunRev will need to balance the Mac marketing with
> marketing in the Windows and UNIX communities, when it is the
> appropriate time to do so.
> >



From 3mcgrath at adelphia.net  Mon Feb  9 02:17:53 2004
From: 3mcgrath at adelphia.net (Thomas McGrath III)
Date: Mon, 9 Feb 2004 02:17:53 -0500
Subject: I need a little help on ASP files
Message-ID: <13AB5C68-5AD0-11D8-B742-000A95DA60FA@adelphia.net>

Below I pasted a piece of a .asp file off the web. I don't know but I 
think the <!--display quote--> is a tag but am not sure if it is xml or 
what.
What I want to do is capture just that part and add some code to it to 
better format the page. right now the <!--display paragraphs--> run 
together and I want to separate them. Right now they display but not 
very nice. There are no graphics and the page is generated daily. I 
need to know how best to handle this and what file type the .asp is????

So, if they are xml then can I use rev to parse the info????
If not then is my best bet to just search/offset the info and write my 
own html for use in rev???

This is from a daily generated quote from another private website and I 
want to create a floating window on the computer that displays their 
quotes in it and maybe clean it up a bit and make it look nice. If I am 
successful I will be donating it to them for their own 
distribution/downloading. Any help is really appreciated. Thanks.

Tom
snip --------
<hr width="100%">

<!-- display quote -->

<p align=center>

<i>"When we accept ourselves, we can accept others into our lives, 
unconditionally probably for the first time"</i></p>

<!-- display source -->

<p align=center>

<b><font size=+1>

IP 19, "Self-Acceptance"</font></b></p>

<br>

    <!--display paragraphs-->

    <p>From our earliest memories, many of us felt like we never 
belonged. No matter how big the gathering, we always felt apart from 
the crowd. We had a hard time "fitting in:' Deep down, we believed that 
if we really let others get to know us, they would reject us.  </p>

    snip----------------



Macintosh PowerBook G-4 OSX 10.3.1, OS 9.2.2, 1.25 GHz, 512MB RAM, Rev 
2.1.2


Advanced Media Group
Thomas J McGrath III	? 2003 ?	3mcgrath at adelphia.net
220 Drake Road, Bethel Park, PA 15102



From chipp at chipp.com  Mon Feb  9 02:18:06 2004
From: chipp at chipp.com (Chipp Walters)
Date: Mon, 9 Feb 2004 01:18:06 -0600
Subject: Is Transcript's English orientation a plus or minus? 
In-Reply-To: <D72E7C07-5AA7-11D8-9A91-000A9580FCCE@backtalk.com>
Message-ID: <GGEOJBEEGFHLDOFIMMPIKEPFFPAA.chipp@chipp.com>

Frank,

If you want dot notation and equals signs, why wouldn't you just use C, or
VB or Java or any ohter authoring language which has those? That's what
*they do*. At some point, adding same syntax ends up creating same
functionality.

The fact is that the X-talks *are not like those other languages*. That's
what many of us actually like about Transcript.

When I switched to RR from VB a couple of years ago, I had a few script
errors like:

x=2 instead of put 2 into x

but, sooner than later...I ended up figuring it out. I expect others do too.

Anytime a person takes on a new language, be it Transcript, LISP, Perl, PHP,
SQL, ASP, VB, C, C++, C#, Java (on an on) they end up 'learning a new
language.' It's now a requisite for modern developers to be facile in their
ability to learn new languages.

RR has limited resources for modifying all of the many compiles of engines
it supports. My vote is they concentrate on adding features and fixing bugs,
rather than supporting multiple syntaxes.

best,

Chipp



From shaosean at unitz.ca  Mon Feb  9 02:30:37 2004
From: shaosean at unitz.ca (shaosean at unitz.ca)
Date: Mon, 09 Feb 2004 02:30:37 -0500
Subject: I need a little help on ASP files
In-Reply-To: <13AB5C68-5AD0-11D8-B742-000A95DA60FA@adelphia.net>
References: <13AB5C68-5AD0-11D8-B742-000A95DA60FA@adelphia.net>
Message-ID: <WorldClient-F200402090230.AA30370111@unitz.ca>

> Below I pasted a piece of a .asp file off the web.

the asp file gets processed on the server and sent to you as plain html 
(same as php and cfm)


> think the <!--display quote--> is a tag but am not sure if it is xml or

simple little comment tags.. nothing more, nothing less



> need to know how best to handle this and what file type the .asp is????

check out microsoft's website.. they've basically have it as asp.net now
asp stands for "active server pages" and usually contains vbscript code 
that gets processed on the server and set to the client as plain html..


if you plan on fixing the formatting of the site, it'd be easiest to 
change the asp files..


-Sean


From 3mcgrath at adelphia.net  Mon Feb  9 02:31:29 2004
From: 3mcgrath at adelphia.net (Thomas McGrath III)
Date: Mon, 9 Feb 2004 02:31:29 -0500
Subject: Is Transcript's English orientation a plus or minus? 
In-Reply-To: <GGEOJBEEGFHLDOFIMMPIKEPFFPAA.chipp@chipp.com>
References: <GGEOJBEEGFHLDOFIMMPIKEPFFPAA.chipp@chipp.com>
Message-ID: <FA00AD24-5AD1-11D8-B742-000A95DA60FA@adelphia.net>

I agree with you Chipp.

I turned down a job doing a Director project and instead talked them 
into doing it in REV because I KNEW I could get it done quicker and in 
the short time frame they needed. Now D does have its points but XTalk 
just works better for these type of projects for me. I can Talk my way 
through what it is I want to do and then just do it.
  I don't mind dot syntax as an option but mostly prefer xtalk.

Since REV is so powerful and fast and easy to use I would rather see it 
given a few more vital features and some of those bugs cleaned out 
before even thinking about other syntax being added to the pie.

I was able to buy, learn and distribute a major CD project in only a 
couple of months and do it with certainty only because of Rev's 
transcript being what i expected an xtalk to be. Heck and no manuals 
either. I have 12 Director manuals and still spend way too much time 
looking stuff up in it. With REV I 'think' about what I want in english 
like terms and then start typing. Oh sure there are some weird things 
to get used to but that's the same across the board.

Fwiw

Tom


On Feb 9, 2004, at 2:18 AM, Chipp Walters wrote:

> Frank,
>
> If you want dot notation and equals signs, why wouldn't you just use 
> C, or
> VB or Java or any ohter authoring language which has those? That's what
> *they do*. At some point, adding same syntax ends up creating same
> functionality.
>
> The fact is that the X-talks *are not like those other languages*. 
> That's
> what many of us actually like about Transcript.
>
> When I switched to RR from VB a couple of years ago, I had a few script
> errors like:
>
> x=2 instead of put 2 into x
>
> but, sooner than later...I ended up figuring it out. I expect others 
> do too.
>
> Anytime a person takes on a new language, be it Transcript, LISP, 
> Perl, PHP,
> SQL, ASP, VB, C, C++, C#, Java (on an on) they end up 'learning a new
> language.' It's now a requisite for modern developers to be facile in 
> their
> ability to learn new languages.
>
> RR has limited resources for modifying all of the many compiles of 
> engines
> it supports. My vote is they concentrate on adding features and fixing 
> bugs,
> rather than supporting multiple syntaxes.
>
> best,
>
> Chipp
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>
>

Thomas J. McGrath III
SCS
1000 Killarney Dr.
Pittsburgh, PA 15234
412-885-8541


From doug at webcrossing.com  Mon Feb  9 02:34:37 2004
From: doug at webcrossing.com (Doug Lerner)
Date: Mon, 09 Feb 2004 16:34:37 +0900
Subject: Is Transcript's English orientation a plus or minus?
In-Reply-To: <FA00AD24-5AD1-11D8-B742-000A95DA60FA@adelphia.net>
Message-ID: <BC4D671D.25FA5%doug@webcrossing.com>

On 2/9/04 4:31 PM, "Thomas McGrath III" <3mcgrath at adelphia.net> wrote:

> With REV I 'think' about what I want in english
> like terms and then start typing.


I think that's what started the thread. Not all developers around the world
think in English-like terms.  :)

doug


From erikhans08 at yahoo.com  Mon Feb  9 02:42:35 2004
From: erikhans08 at yahoo.com (erik hansen)
Date: Sun, 8 Feb 2004 23:42:35 -0800 (PST)
Subject: The Value of Rev Stacks One Never Sells
In-Reply-To: <0F4B3253-59AA-11D8-940D-0003937052EC@snet.net>
Message-ID: <20040209074235.4063.qmail@web61109.mail.yahoo.com>


--- Kurt Kaufman <kkaufman at snet.net> wrote:

> Here is an example of an application built
> entirely for my own needs:
> I recently bought a digital camera capable of
> creating short video 
> clips. Unfortunately, many short clips means
> many double-clicks on file 
> icons, or many trips to the File menu within
> the Player application.  I 
> could not find an application that would play
> these clips without first 
> setting up a "playlist", so I wrote that
> application myself:
>
http://www.shopperturnpike.com/usefulsoftware/cliplinkviewer.html

is there a link from this page to your home page?

=====
erik at erikhansen.org    http://www.erikhansen.org

__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Finance: Get your refund fast by filing online.
http://taxes.yahoo.com/filing.html

From pixelbird at interisland.net  Mon Feb  9 02:43:11 2004
From: pixelbird at interisland.net (Ken Norris)
Date: Sun, 08 Feb 2004 23:43:11 -0800
Subject: mission critical apps; was Re: cross platform ide
In-Reply-To: <20040209064721.94104930178@mail.runrev.com>
Message-ID: <BC4C7A0F.4DD9%pixelbird@interisland.net>

> Date: Sun, 8 Feb 2004 23:09:01 -0700
> From: Alex Rice <alex at mindlube.com>
> Subject: Re: mission critical apps; was Re: cross platform ide

> Again: formalize it and be able to explain it to managers and other
> programmers. Make a case study for runrev to post on their website. Or
> write a HOW-To and post it to RevNet. Seriously. I'm not singling you
> out Ken; 
----------
I hope not, I was just hoping the simplicity of what I described might help.
I'm not headed that way (IT developer kits), but I'm not even sure putting a
bunch of time, effort, and expenses into marketing Rev down that particular
road is worthwhile. It's main thing is diversity and development speed.
These things are MacGuivers...Swiss Army Knives (have you checked out the
'new' Swiss Army Knives lately?). But that doesn't mean they're unreliable.
HyperCard on a dedicated Performa has been reliably running the concert hall
lighting system in the world's tallest buildings (The Petronas Towers in
Kuala Lumpur) for years.

It's hard to believe how far Rev has come in a couple years, though. It just
keeps getting better.

Have I said that before? Or was it someone else?

Ken N.


From kray at sonsothunder.com  Mon Feb  9 02:43:43 2004
From: kray at sonsothunder.com (Ken Ray)
Date: Mon, 9 Feb 2004 01:43:43 -0600
Subject: Bug Database Changes Completed - PLEASE READ!
In-Reply-To: <5DA22D9E-5ACA-11D8-BF4E-000393C4760A@mindlube.com>
Message-ID: <021401c3eee0$74bd3db0$6601a8c0@LightningFlash>

> > Here's the workflow for the new system:
> >   ...
> >        2c-ii) If it cannot be reproduced, a comment is added to the
> >                bug to ask the original submitter if they can come
> >                up with another recipe (since we couldn't reproduce
> >                it) and the status remains PENDING. If we ever *can*
> >                reproduce it, we act as (2c-i) above. If we can
> >                *never* reproduce it, we change the status to
> >                RESOLVED and the resolution to CANT_REPRODUCE. The
> >                Target Milestone is then set to the targetted
> >                release version.
> 
> What time period elapses before it's decided to change to 
> CANT_REPRODUCE. What should happen if it's changed to CANT_REPRODUCE 
> while the user is still trying to come up with a recipe that 
> works for 
> the engineers? A too quick CANT_REPRODUCE could really push someone 
> over the brink if they are going insane over a bug.

The time period varies. It depends on how many back-and-forths it takes
to finally determine that we can't reproduce it. The main approach is
that a user submits the bug with a clear recipe. We run the recipe and
can't reproduce it, and ask for more info or a different recipe. The
user submits additional/alternate data, and we try again. Eventually we
will say: "we still can't reproduce it", and then on mutual agreement
(most likely) we'll change it to CANT_REPRODUCE.

> > 3) Bugs marked NEW are reviewed by the person to whom they were
> >    assigned. If the assignee feels that they are the right person to
> >    fix the bug, they change the status of the bug to ASSIGNED. If
> >    the assignee feels they are *not* the right person to fix the
> >    bug, the status is left as NEW, but the bug is reassigned to
> >    someone else, and the new assignee does the same review.
> 
> So when a bug is NEW, then it is actually "tentatively assigned", and 
> an engineer is looking at it? When it's accepted by the engineer then 
> it's declared ASSIGNED?

Yes. IMHO this is backwards in my way of thinking, but that's the
process that Bugzilla uses, so we just wanted to make sure everyone ELSE
knew how it worked... :-)
 

Ken Ray
Sons of Thunder Software
Email: kray at sonsothunder.com
Web Site: http://www.sonsothunder.com/ 



From chipp at chipp.com  Mon Feb  9 02:46:34 2004
From: chipp at chipp.com (Chipp Walters)
Date: Mon, 9 Feb 2004 01:46:34 -0600
Subject: mission critical apps; was Re: cross platform ide
In-Reply-To: <74DB9F45-5AC6-11D8-BF4E-000393C4760A@mindlube.com>
Message-ID: <GGEOJBEEGFHLDOFIMMPIEEPIFPAA.chipp@chipp.com>

Alex,

You bring up many excellent points...but I really thing you miss some big
ones.

1) Your inability to answer a question about messaging does not make RR
unfit for work in the Enterprise. Not that I'm saying you aren't smart about
these things, I know just the opposite is true, just looking at some of the
projects you've created in Rev points out your obvious skills:-)

But, salesmen come in all forms. I would suggest a different tact: Use RR to
prototype the mission critical tool. Then when your manager sees how fast
you were able to build the prototype, tell him you can have it working in
less time (less $$$) than redoing everything in C. Even if he says no, you
still have the advantage of a prototype to help design the final app.

2) There are many factors which go into tool selection. Unfortunately for
RR, there are many which would seem to disqualify it before even starting.
You mention one -- the message path. What about even more basic questions
like "Who is RR?" and "How long have they been in business?" Basing a large
'mission critical' app on a company the size of RR is probably a very
difficult proposition in the first place. Also, RR doesn't really have a
great 'team-centered' IDE to work with. IOW, using RR to develop large scale
apps with teams of developers is difficult.

All of that being said, I am currently working on 3 Enterprise class RR
applications. I did them all by prototyping and convincing the management
they can save LOTS of $$$ by letting us develop in RR vs VB or C. So far,
it's worked.

> 2) Is a tool that's really good for games and multimedia also a good
> tool for making ultra-reliable business applications? There is an
> saying something like: When all you have is a hammer, everything looks
> like a nail. Can the 'All talking All singing All dancing' Runrev
> really be the 1 true tool that we want it to be?

Hmmm. It appears most of the best products built with MC and RR are neither
games nor multimedia. In fact, if I were to build either games or
multimedia, I would probably develop them in either Flash or Director. I
believe RR strength is as a Rapid Application Development tool (RAD). I know
I use it solely for application development, and many others on this list do
too. So, IMO, thinking of it a multimedia/game tool is most limiting.

One other side note: Years and years ago, before the internet, our standards
of what an 'ultra-reliable' application were IMO much higher than they are
today. In fact, nowadays, with MS releasing security fix after security fix
each week, the effect has 'lowered the bar' for developers everywhere. If
there's a compromise or bug in software, developers point at MS and say
"hey, if the most profitable and largest software company in the world can't
get it right, then ..." Not to make excuses, but it does set expectations.

best,

Chipp



From chipp at chipp.com  Mon Feb  9 03:00:34 2004
From: chipp at chipp.com (Chipp Walters)
Date: Mon, 9 Feb 2004 02:00:34 -0600
Subject: I need a little help on ASP files
In-Reply-To: <13AB5C68-5AD0-11D8-B742-000A95DA60FA@adelphia.net>
Message-ID: <GGEOJBEEGFHLDOFIMMPIEEPJFPAA.chipp@chipp.com>

Hi Thomas,

What you posted below is just plain old HTML which has been generated from
an ASP script on a Microsoft IIS server.

<!-- This is an HTML comment -->

just like in Rev:

--This is a Rev comment

the .asp at the end of the URL tells the server what type of file the URL
is. In the case of .asp, the server runs the .asp code in the designated
URL. IOW, if the URL is:

http://www.test.com/fred.asp

then the server would execute the file named: "fred.asp"
Inside of fred.asp you might find some HTML and some scripts to do different
things. The server runs fred.asp and it generates HTML which is what is
displayed in your browser. You never get to see what the script was that
generated the HTML.

For a very basic intro to ASP check out:
http://www.w3schools.com/asp/default.asp

> Below I pasted a piece of a .asp file off the web. I don't know but I
> think the <!--display quote--> is a tag but am not sure if it is xml or
> what.
> What I want to do is capture just that part and add some code to it to
> better format the page. right now the <!--display paragraphs--> run
> together and I want to separate them.

use <br> to insert a line-break into HTML

>Right now they display but not
> very nice. There are no graphics and the page is generated daily. I
> need to know how best to handle this and what file type the .asp is????

It's just regualar HTML by the time you see it.

>
> So, if they are xml then can I use rev to parse the info????
> If not then is my best bet to just search/offset the info and write my
> own html for use in rev???

Yes.



From ambassador at fourthworld.com  Mon Feb  9 03:18:29 2004
From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin)
Date: Mon, 09 Feb 2004 00:18:29 -0800
Subject: mission critical apps; was Re: cross platform ide
In-Reply-To: <74DB9F45-5AC6-11D8-BF4E-000393C4760A@mindlube.com>
Message-ID: <BC4C8255.3CF62%ambassador@fourthworld.com>

Alex Rice wrote:

> The questions I intended to bring up were:
> 
> 1) In a technical interview, or when trying to sell an xtalk solution
> to corporate IT dept, you may run into someone who challenges the
> xtalk/smalltalk messaging model. I described in a previous post that
> interview where the Java engineer was challenging me about Objective-C.
> It's possible the issue will come up for other
> xtalk/smalltalk/objective-C programmers too.

What is the argument against the xTalk messaging model?

Can you think of a way to address those concerns while retaining the
essential flavor of the language?

Perhaps as an optional set of language additions, a la explicitVars?


> 2) Is a tool that's really good for games and multimedia also a good
> tool for making ultra-reliable business applications? There is an
> saying something like: When all you have is a hammer, everything looks
> like a nail. Can the 'All talking All singing All dancing' Runrev
> really be the 1 true tool that we want it to be?

I agree that "multimedia" is a poor choice to describe something like Rev.
Though it can do multimedia, it can also do a lot more.  The challenge is
that it can do so many things, nerly as many as Java or C, and like those
languages it's hard to define them in terms of types of software delivered
using them.

Maybe something like "media-rich applications" might be more on-target.

Then again, I'm cautious of even attempting to define Rev by the stuff folks
make with it today.  There are so many things in the Rev VM I can't write
apps as fast as opportunities arise for them.  What can't you build with
Rev? :)  

There might be a way to evagelize the tool by merely describing how it
works, and let folks imagine what that means for them specifically.  That
may sound a little too California, but consider:

As a general-purpose GUI toolkit, the range of examples should have
something for just about anyone:  database front-ends like Revzilla,
downloadable dynamic content like RevNet, Web production tools like
Hemmingway and WebMerge, media-rich databases like Rob Pitt's PEDiPac,
qualitative analysis tools like HyperRESEARCH, AI tools lik Alex' CLIPS
project, CBTs like Max Shafer's Spolin CD, and the list goes on.

On Brian Thomas' "If Monks Had Macs" CD alone there are many different
application categories represented:  an e-book reader, a personal journal
application, a text adventure game, a solitaire card game, and tons of
"multimedia" like his piece on the White Rose.  Heck, his Thinker Toy widget
alone straddles at least two or three categories (you can see a screenshot
of it at the lower-left of <http://www.rivertext.com/monks3.html>).

All this, and still a thousand other software categories that simply haven't
been invented yet....

Category labels may be unncessarily limiting, introducing boundaries for
perceptions which might have remained broader just hearing something like:

  Java promises "write-once, run aywhere."
  Revolution delivers.
  Easily.

Then exaplain it as a modern 4GL with with rich GUI support and an
unbeatable ROI proposition.  Now that you have their atention, show them
case study after case study of people making or saving many times their
development expense with Rev.

How many times does an IT request get delivered long after it was useful?
How many in-house apps get deployed but never used because it's hard to make
great interfaces quickly in most other tools?  How many projects are over
budget?

Rev projects are not immune to budget overruns, no software is. But because
you're working at such a high level with Rev the range of things that can go
wrong is smaller, and often the variance between estimate and actual cost is
smaller accordingly.  A 20-year ACM survey found 80% of software projects
were over budget, with a variance of a factor of 16 (as low as one-forth the
estimate, as high as four times as much).  I have no doubt that among
professional Rev developers the variance is much smaller.  Containing that
variance makes cost control possible.

For open-mindered corporations who need to roll out usable interfaces
effeciently, Rev has a lot to offer.

Many decision-makers may not understand programming, but they do understand
their bottom line.  And that's where Rev shines most brightly.

Let's hope we see a collection of case studies at the RunRev site soon.
They've helped make many a happy story, they might as well tell a few...

-- 
 Richard Gaskin 
 Fourth World Media Corporation
 ___________________________________________________________
 Ambassador at FourthWorld.com       http://www.FourthWorld.com


From ian at azurevision.co.uk  Mon Feb  9 04:11:49 2004
From: ian at azurevision.co.uk (Ian Wood)
Date: Mon, 9 Feb 2004 09:11:49 +0000
Subject: Would you have written it in time? was Re: mission critical apps
In-Reply-To: <BC4C8255.3CF62%ambassador@fourthworld.com>
References: <BC4C8255.3CF62%ambassador@fourthworld.com>
Message-ID: <FE17B32F-5ADF-11D8-AB96-0003935A2896@azurevision.co.uk>

Richard Gaskin wrote:

> How many times does an IT request get delivered long after it was 
> useful?
> How many in-house apps get deployed but never used because it's hard 
> to make
> great interfaces quickly in most other tools?  How many projects are 
> over
> budget?

How many programs have you all written quickly in Revolution that would 
have taken much too long with another tool/language?

It took me less time to learn xtalk and build my app to make image 
sequences from QTVRs than it would have just to have learnt enough of 
Cocoa and the QuickTime API to even start planning it.  And then it's 
cross-platform as well.

The only advantage of Cocoa would have been the ability to output a 
video file rather than a folder full of single images.

My two Eurocents,

Ian Wood


From mcdomi at free.fr  Mon Feb  9 05:17:55 2004
From: mcdomi at free.fr (Dom)
Date: Mon, 9 Feb 2004 11:17:55 +0100
Subject: Andy's comments and positioning...
In-Reply-To: <82B01AB6-5A73-11D8-9A91-000A9580FCCE@backtalk.com>
Message-ID: <1g8vqth.1sp16xj1yv7jxqM%mcdomi@free.fr>

Frank Leahy <frank at backtalk.com> wrote:

> Not supporting these standard statements make the language look a bit
> "beginner-ish".

You are right. "talk" statements are way too childish!
Speak of real programer language, not a quiche-eater one! 
(here, in fact, it is a bottle-eater one ;-)))

Below is an example of what to do to make Transcript a real language:

====

#define MAXBEER (99)

void chug(int beers);

main()
{
register beers;

for(beers = MAXBEER; beers; chug(beers--))
  puts("");

puts("\nTime to buy more beer!\n");

exit(0);
}

void chug(register beers)
{
char howmany[8], *s;

s = beers != 1 ? "s" : "";
printf("%d bottle%s of beer on the wall,\n", beers, s);
printf("%d bottle%s of beeeeer . . . ,\n", beers, s);
printf("Take one down, pass it around,\n");

if(--beers) sprintf(howmany, "%d", beers); else strcpy(howmany, "No
more");
s = beers != 1 ? "s" : "";
printf("%s bottle%s of beer on the wall.\n", howmany, s);
} 

====

PS: everybody should understand that i am kidding ;-))
Pliiiiz don't touch transcript's syntax!!!

-- 
Vous parlez fran?ais ? faites un tour sur le groupe francophone !
revolutionfr-subscribe at yahoogroupes.fr

From mcdomi at free.fr  Mon Feb  9 05:17:56 2004
From: mcdomi at free.fr (Dom)
Date: Mon, 9 Feb 2004 11:17:56 +0100
Subject: Is Transcript's English orientation a plus or minus? (was
	Andy'scomments and positioning...)
In-Reply-To: <p06002002bc4c72d2cafb@[10.29.0.187]>
Message-ID: <1g8vyxk.1ayer3b1399v40M%mcdomi@free.fr>

Kjetil R? Hauge <k.r.hauge at east.uio.no> wrote:

> Applescript already has  French  

No more. And it's *good* ;-)
The french version ws plagued with a number of bugs...
It was funny to play "Babelfish" with it (fr > en > fr) ;-)))

As a french speaker, I am *not*  disturbed by having to write scripts in
a sort of pig english [as I am doing now to explain myself ;->]

That's a part of scripting/programing for me...

> and Japanese variants of its English-like syntax, I believe. But would it
> make learning easier for Japanese and Turkish programmers if the
> programming language syntax was closer to the constituent order (aka word
> order) of their native language? I am not sure.

I am sort of biased, as I studied _written_ english at school for years:
I don't think it would make learning easier... maybe for youngsters?
But young people are showered with english-speaking songs [that they
fortunately don't understand ;->], so they are already accustomed to
english...

-- 
Vous parlez fran?ais ? faites un tour sur le groupe francophone !
revolutionfr-subscribe at yahoogroupes.fr

From frank at backtalk.com  Mon Feb  9 05:32:13 2004
From: frank at backtalk.com (Frank Leahy)
Date: Mon, 9 Feb 2004 10:32:13 +0000
Subject: I need a little help on ASP files
In-Reply-To: <20040209074448.9D5B09301BC@mail.runrev.com>
Message-ID: <3987DA48-5AEB-11D8-B678-000A9580FCCE@backtalk.com>


On Monday, February 9, 2004, at 07:44  AM, 
use-revolution-request at lists.runrev.com wrote:

>
> So, if they are xml then can I use rev to parse the info????
> If not then is my best bet to just search/offset the info and write my
> own html for use in rev???

It's not xml, it's just HTML.  Don't worry about the fact that the file 
extension is .asp; the file is simply HTML and could have any number of 
extensions (.html, .htm, .pl, .php) depending on how it was produced.

>
> This is from a daily generated quote from another private website and I
> want to create a floating window on the computer that displays their
> quotes in it and maybe clean it up a bit and make it look nice. If I am
> successful I will be donating it to them for their own
> distribution/downloading. Any help is really appreciated. Thanks.
>

Use offset() to find the beginning and end of the quote, and then munge 
the quote to format it as you like.

-- Frank


From frank at backtalk.com  Mon Feb  9 05:34:38 2004
From: frank at backtalk.com (Frank Leahy)
Date: Mon, 9 Feb 2004 10:34:38 +0000
Subject: Is Transcript's English orientation a plus or minus? 
In-Reply-To: <20040209074448.9D5B09301BC@mail.runrev.com>
Message-ID: <8FE3AB1C-5AEB-11D8-B678-000A9580FCCE@backtalk.com>


On Monday, February 9, 2004, at 07:44  AM, 
use-revolution-request at lists.runrev.com wrote:
> Frank,
>
> If you want dot notation and equals signs, why wouldn't you just use 
> C, or
> VB or Java or any ohter authoring language which has those? That's what
> *they do*. At some point, adding same syntax ends up creating same
> functionality.

> The fact is that the X-talks *are not like those other languages*. 
> That's
> what many of us actually like about Transcript.

Hi Chipp,

I think you're confusing the language (xTalk), with the development and 
runtime environment (call it HyperCard++ for the moment).  HyperCard++ 
is a Rapid Application Development environment that uses the concepts 
of stacks, cards and controls to make it relatively easy to build 
complex multi-window applications.  xTalk, the language that is used to 
control this RAD, is a HyperTalk clone, but could (theoretically) be 
replaced with any number of other languages, e.g. C, JavaScript, VB, 
PHP, etc.

I like the RAD, and I don't want to replace xTalk -- my original 
comment, that it would be nice if I could write "x = y + z" would mean 
adding a very small amount of "syntactic sugar" to xTalk, and would go 
a long way towards making xTalk look more a "real" language.

>
> RR has limited resources for modifying all of the many compiles of 
> engines
> it supports. My vote is they concentrate on adding features and fixing 
> bugs,
> rather than supporting multiple syntaxes.

I agree about wasting precious resources.  But I'd be willing to bet 
that "x = 1 + 2" is already supported in the parser, and is commented 
out for historical reasons.  It would be interesting if a RunRev person 
could confirm or deny this :-)

Best,
-- Frank


From opus.species at wanadoo.fr  Mon Feb  9 05:34:59 2004
From: opus.species at wanadoo.fr (opus.species at wanadoo.fr)
Date: Mon, 09 Feb 2004 11:34:59 +0100
Subject: REV and multimedia
In-Reply-To: <20040209014550.0D83A930130@mail.runrev.com>
References: <20040209014550.0D83A930130@mail.runrev.com>
Message-ID: <opr23mcln67hj683@smtp.wanadoo.fr>


> From: Dan Shafer <revdan at danshafer.com>

> "It is a hazardeous way to compare Flash and Revolution ; but it is
> easy to explain "Revolution is superior to Flash beacuse Revolution can
> embedd Flash"."
> Reminds me of the old religious language wars between Prolog and LISP.
> The LISPers always thought they could win the battle by saying, smugly,
> "You could write Prolog in LISP but you could never write LISP in
> Prolog." I always wanted to shout, "But I don't *want* to write a
> freaking computer language!" To me, a linkage between Transcript and
> JavaScript that would allow me to wrapper calls to media objects in my
> favorite language (Transcript) would be more beneficial than the
> ability to embed Flash stuff in Rev.

Anyway i am glad that Rev can embedd vector graphic animation through 
altBrowser.dll, even if a native support could be better (with params 
passed from Flash to Rev as they arre passed from Flash to JavaScript).


> "Revolution appears today as the tool for the Macintosh community."
>
> I thought Kevin dealt well with that one the other day. If anyone has a
> perception that Rev is a Mac tool, there's not much that can be done to
> help them. The MacWorld (UK?) reviewer who said that obviously had
> spent little or no time writing the review. Nothing at RunRev's Web
> site, in their marketing or, anywhere else that I've seen conveys that
> message.

As far as multimedia is concerned, Revolution as a native support for 
Quicktime, clearly an Apple technology. Windows and Linux users are not so 
happy...

Claude

From xbury.cs at clearstream.com  Mon Feb  9 05:37:34 2004
From: xbury.cs at clearstream.com (xbury.cs at clearstream.com)
Date: Mon, 9 Feb 2004 11:37:34 +0100
Subject: Klingon scripting code revolution
Message-ID: <OFC67D7597.76626655-ONC1256E35.003A45F4-C1256E35.003A6036@deutsche-boerse.de>

While you all debate the pros and con of win/mac/lin and the rest...

Top 12 Things A Klingon Programmer Would Say
12.     Specifications are for the weak and timid! 
11.     This machine is a piece of GAGH! I need dual Pentium processors if I am to 
do battle with this code! 
10.     You cannot really appreciate Dilbert unless you've read it in the original 
Klingon. 
9.      Indentation?! -- I will show you how to indent when I indent your skull! 
8.      What is this talk of 'release'? Klingons do not make software 'releases'. 
Our software 'escapes' leaving a bloody trail of designers and quality 
assurance people in its wake. 
7.      Klingon function calls do not have 'parameters' -- they have 'arguments' 
-- and they ALWAYS WIN THEM. 
6.      Debugging? Klingons do not debug. Our software does not coddle the weak. 
5.      I have challenged the entire quality assurance team to a Bat-Leth contest. 
They will not concern us again. 
4.      A TRUE Klingon Warrior does not comment his code! 
3.      By filing this SPR you have challenged the honor of my family. Prepare to 
die! 
2.      You question the worthiness of my code? I should kill you where you stand! 

1.      Our users will know fear and cower before our software. Ship it! Ship it, 
and let them flee like the dogs they are! 

Cheerios
Xavier


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From psahores at easynet.fr  Mon Feb  9 05:41:48 2004
From: psahores at easynet.fr (Pierre Sahores)
Date: Mon, 9 Feb 2004 11:41:48 +0100
Subject: Is Transcript's English orientation a plus or minus?
In-Reply-To: <BC4D671D.25FA5%doug@webcrossing.com>
References: <BC4D671D.25FA5%doug@webcrossing.com>
Message-ID: <904296AC-5AEC-11D8-9146-000A95665344@easynet.fr>


Le 9 f?vr. 04, ? 08:34, Doug Lerner a ?crit :

> On 2/9/04 4:31 PM, "Thomas McGrath III" <3mcgrath at adelphia.net> wrote:
>
>> With REV I 'think' about what I want in english
>> like terms and then start typing.
>
>
> I think that's what started the thread. Not all developers around the 
> world
> think in English-like terms.  :)

Probably, they should ;-) Are the C, Java, PHP or Perl langages  less 
English-oriented than Transcript is (aka: more french or spanish 
friendy) ?
>
> doug
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>
>
Bien cordialement, Pierre Sahores

100, rue de Paris
F - 77140 Nemours

psahores at easynet.fr

GSM:   +33 6 03 95 77 70
Pro:   +33 1 41 60 52 68
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Inspection acad?mique de Seine-Saint-Denis
Applications et SGBD ACID SQL (WEB et PGI)
Penser et produire "delta de productivit?"


From xbury.cs at clearstream.com  Mon Feb  9 04:29:04 2004
From: xbury.cs at clearstream.com (xbury.cs at clearstream.com)
Date: Mon, 9 Feb 2004 10:29:04 +0100
Subject: xTalk Syntax (was Re: Andy's comments and positioning...)
Message-ID: <OFDCC233A1.B3FFF009-ONC1256E35.0033D147-C1256E35.00341AAA@deutsche-boerse.de>

I know that a lot of colleagues would rather not use a "Mac" tool...

Not that they like Microsoft tool better but what PC, SUN, Unix, Linux
 marketing have they seen? They surely dont look at mac stuff...

While the Mac market is important, Im sure they're missing about
90% of the programmer's market with this kind of tactic... 

cheers
Xavier

On 09/02/2004 03:22:30 use-revolution-bounces wrote:
>> I thought Kevin dealt well with that one the other day. If
>> anyone has a
>> perception that Rev is a Mac tool, there's not much that can
>> be done to
>> help them. The MacWorld (UK?) reviewer who said that obviously had
>> spent little or no time writing the review. Nothing at RunRev's Web
>> site, in their marketing or, anywhere else that I've seen
>> conveys that
>> message.
>
>Sorry, Dan, I respectfully disagree. Rev has had ads or been written
>about in several Mac magazines (MacWorld UK, MacAddict, MacTech), but I
>have yet to see an ad or write-up in a PC magazine (and I subscribe to a
>bunch). I don't know about UNIX mags, but perhaps someone else can
>comment on this. Do a web search for "Runtime Revolution" and see just
>how many "hits" you get for sites that advertise or promote PC
>development tools or news on the PC front.
>
>And look at the web site - the first page (after you get past the flags)
>has the words "Mac", "MacWorld" and "MacUser" all over it. I *know* this
>not the norm and is because we just came out of MacWorld, and Rev won an
>Eddy in MacWorld magazine, but for people going to the site in the last
>couple of months, it helps to form an opinion that Rev is primarily a
>Mac tool.
>
>And speaking of MacWorld, RunRev has been at conventions selling Rev,
>but what kinds of conventions? Almost exclusively Mac conventions
>(AFAIK). And once again, regardless for the reason for it, it adds to
>the "buzz" about Rev as a Mac tool.
>
>Additionally, Rev is very often compared to RealBasic - primarily known
>as a Mac development environment - and that doesn't help its image one
>bit.
>
>Finally, there are a handful of features that need to be in the product
>(IMHO) to be "taken seriously" in the PC community (ActiveX support,
>Win32 DLL access, etc.), which may be part of the reason it's not been
>covered in the PC trades.
>
>Look, I'm not trying to say that what RunRev's doing is not helping sell
>boxes, but what I *am* saying is that the groundswell of commentary on
>Rev is in the Mac community. And to shake that off and truly be a
>cross-platform tool, RunRev will need to balance the Mac marketing with
>marketing in the Windows and UNIX communities, when it is the
>appropriate time to do so.
>
>Just my $0.02,
>
>Ken Ray
>Sons of Thunder Software
>Email: kray at sonsothunder.com
>Web Site: http://www.sonsothunder.com/
>
>
>_______________________________________________
>use-revolution mailing list
>use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
>http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution

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From frank at backtalk.com  Mon Feb  9 06:16:04 2004
From: frank at backtalk.com (Frank Leahy)
Date: Mon, 9 Feb 2004 11:16:04 +0000
Subject: mission critical apps; was Re: cross platform ide
In-Reply-To: <20040209103557.69FBD930295@mail.runrev.com>
Message-ID: <59E7BE68-5AF1-11D8-B678-000A9580FCCE@backtalk.com>


On Monday, February 9, 2004, at 10:35  AM, 
use-revolution-request at lists.runrev.com wrote:

>
> What is the argument against the xTalk messaging model?
>

Richard,

In most any other dev environment, the only "messages" your app gets 
are mouse and keyboard events, and possibly network events/messages -- 
otherwise you are in control of everything else, from what gets drawn 
on the screen to what user interaction occurs.  If there's a bug, 
there's a good (better) chance it's your problem, and you can usually 
track it down (modulo problems with whatever framework you might be 
using).

In RR though, everything's a message, and every piece of code is 
written in response to literally hundreds of different messages.  And 
this fact that you're one step removed from the actual user means that 
it's incumbent on RR to ensure that the messages it passes are correct 
and complete, and in the right context.

That said, I can think of at least four problems that I've seen with 
the messaging model (which I happen to like by the way):

1) There is no convention for whether one needs to pass messages up to 
the system.  For example,

on openCard
    ...do my stuff...
    pass openCard
end openCard

What impact, if any does passing or not passing openCard (or any other 
message) to the system have?

2) It's hard to guarantee the message passing context.

on someCommonFunction
    send "foo" to this stack
end someCommonFunction

Sometimes the only way to guarantee that this gets sent to the right 
stack is to make sure the "this" stack is physically frontmost.

3) The messaging model does not always work correctly.  And it 
sometimes works differently depending on where the code resides.

For example, correctness: I've been adding drag and drop to my app, and 
very often neither dragEnd nor dragLeave are called.  It's probably a 
bug, but it isn't the only messaging bug I've seen.

As for "works differently": "on drag..." handlers work differently if 
they're in a control script vs a card script vs a stack script.  That 
shouldn't be the case.

4) Race conditions.

I've seen cases where multiple "dragMove" messages get fired before my 
"dragEnter" handler completes.  This caused all sorts of havoc with my 
code.  And without a semaphore mechanism built-in to the language it's 
impossible to know if I've solved the problem, or whether it will crop 
up again on a faster or different machine.

Best,
-- Frank


From jbv.silences at Club-Internet.fr  Mon Feb  9 07:25:01 2004
From: jbv.silences at Club-Internet.fr (jbv)
Date: Mon, 09 Feb 2004 13:25:01 +0100
Subject: Is Transcript's English orientation a plus or minus?
References: <BC4D671D.25FA5%doug@webcrossing.com>
Message-ID: <40277C1B.A6D396E1@Club-Internet.fr>



Doug Lerner a *crit :

> On 2/9/04 4:31 PM, "Thomas McGrath III" <3mcgrath at adelphia.net> wrote:
>
> > With REV I 'think' about what I want in english
> > like terms and then start typing.
>
> I think that's what started the thread. Not all developers around the world
> think in English-like terms.  :)
>

AFAIR some studies in experimental psychology & ergonomics in the
early 80's showed that beginners & experimented programmers think
and mostly memorize algorithms in very different ways :
- beginners tend to memorize an algo in a specific prog. language
- experienced programmers memorize algos outside any prog. language

I don't know if this remark is on or off topic, although according to these
studies, one might assume that experienced programmers from different
countries and with different native languages (USA, french, japanese...)
don't bother much about the language used to code, but focus on the
algorithm itself and perhaps think about (analyze & solve) a problem in
a similar way...

JB


From frank at backtalk.com  Mon Feb  9 07:38:57 2004
From: frank at backtalk.com (Frank Leahy)
Date: Mon, 9 Feb 2004 12:38:57 +0000
Subject: xTalk JPEG parser?
In-Reply-To: <20040209064721.B814B93017A@mail.runrev.com>
Message-ID: <EDF59FE8-5AFC-11D8-B678-000A9580FCCE@backtalk.com>


On Monday, February 9, 2004, at 06:47  AM, 
use-revolution-request at lists.runrev.com wrote:

> From: UDI <eudio at chabashira.co.jp>
> Subject: Re: xTalk JPEG parser?
> To: How to use Revolution <use-revolution at lists.runrev.com>
> Message-ID: <20040209063033.14876 at mail.chabashira.co.jp>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-2022-JP"
>
> Stephen Quinn Barncard wrote 04.2.8 09:41 PM?
>> ?? If it was not difficult, then how can it be troublesome? Please
>> explain! Does it not work reliably? I mean it works or it doesn't!!
>
> Sorry, My English is very clumsy.
>

No, I'd say it's quite good actually.


> Work is very simple.
>  get first offset
>  get first marker by the offset
>  repeat
>   If the marker is a thing for the purpose, take out data
>   else, take out an offset after a marker
>   get the next marker by the offset
>  end repeat
>
> You have to grasp kind of markers.
> Work itself is very simple. But it takes trouble very much.
>

I agree, it is relatively straightforward, but requires some clever 
coding to catch all the possible error conditions.

Your code gives me a good starting point, thank you.  When I finish, 
I'll post it for everyone to use.

-- Frank


From opus.species at wanadoo.fr  Mon Feb  9 08:06:35 2004
From: opus.species at wanadoo.fr (opus.species at wanadoo.fr)
Date: Mon, 09 Feb 2004 14:06:35 +0100
Subject: Transcript and/or ECMA
Message-ID: <opr23tc9d67hj683@smtp.wanadoo.fr>

From: Pierre Sahores <psahores at easynet.fr>

> Agreed ! The English-like syntax of Transcript seem me to be one of the 
> main parts of the XTalk paradigm : As long as Rev will support this VHLL 
> feature, we will stay able to code transcript handlers, even without 
> running computers : i like to feel me free to "think and code" cool 
> handlers in the railroad or, even, in driving my car from home to the 
> office... I can't, for my own, do, with the same success, such kind of 
> things in using Rebol, PHP, Javascript or Java...
>  Bien cordialement, Pierre Sahores

I fully agree that for trained xtalk writers the english-like syntax of 
Transcript is an advantage.

As and old HyperCarder, Transcript is very fine for me too.

But if Revolution want to access to a biggest market share, you must 
consider that 98% of people trained to programming are trained to "ECMA" 
style langages.

Macromedia understood that and the next version of Director will support 
both the Lingo syntax (very xTalk like) and the ECMA (= 
javascript/actionscript)syntax.
Note the fact that ECMA syntax is not a proprietary syntax ; it is an open 
standard maintained by the European Computer Manufacturer Association.

If Revolution can speak the same langage as JavaScript, Flash (and 
tomorrow Director) that can help thousands of programmer to test it and to 
adopt it.

Claude
-- 
Utilisant M2, le client e-mail r?volutionnaire d'Opera : 
http://www.opera.com/

From mcdomi at free.fr  Mon Feb  9 08:34:06 2004
From: mcdomi at free.fr (Dom)
Date: Mon, 9 Feb 2004 14:34:06 +0100
Subject: Is Transcript's English orientation a plus or minus?
In-Reply-To: <BC4D671D.25FA5%doug@webcrossing.com>
Message-ID: <1g8w0wu.9s8c34n39uf2M%mcdomi@free.fr>

Doug Lerner <doug at webcrossing.com> wrote:

> I think that's what started the thread. Not all developers around the world
> think in English-like terms.  :)

You are wrong. In spite of my sig, when I am scripting I think directly
in pig-english ;-)

In fact, I am almost speaking in my head while typing -- but I'd prefer
there is not native speaker to hear me at this moment ;-)))

-- 
Vous parlez fran?ais ? faites un tour sur le groupe francophone !
revolutionfr-subscribe at yahoogroupes.fr

From rjb at rz.uni-potsdam.de  Mon Feb  9 08:24:39 2004
From: rjb at rz.uni-potsdam.de (Robert Brenstein)
Date: Mon, 9 Feb 2004 14:24:39 +0100
Subject: The Bitstream VERA font, the first truely crossplatform 
 solution
In-Reply-To: <p060102b7bc4ba106df89@[10.0.1.3]>
References: <1g8swjr.8w5ol11j9xfs2M%mcdomi@free.fr>
 <p060102b7bc4ba106df89@[10.0.1.3]>
Message-ID: <a06020417bc4d3986f0ad@[141.89.100.235]>

>At 8:33 PM +0100 2/7/04, Dom wrote:
>>About visually impaired persons: it's a pain for me to read those tiny
>>chars in the Help ;->
>>This ought to be a choice!
>
>Sorry. It was difficult to design this in, because the way styles in 
>fields are architected currently, any change to font, size, style, 
>or color sets all of them. For example, if you have a field of 
>11-point Verdana, and you boldface one word, the word's font and 
>size are set to Verdana 11 - so if you change the field to New York 
>18, for example, the boldfaced word will still be Verdana 11.
>
>The documentation has a lot of style changes, so what this means in 
>practice is that to change the doc font or size, you need to go 
>through all the style runs on each of the thousands of cards in the 
>documentation, and change the font and size for each of them. This 
>can be done in a script but it takes too long to be practical as a 
>preference setting. (But if the architecture changes to allow this 
>to be fast, I'm sure it will be done.)
>--
>jeanne a. e. devoto ~ jaed at jaedworks.com
>http://www.jaedworks.com

This will be possible only when text attributes will become truly 
inherited. I mean individually inherited. As it is now, they are 
object/chunk attributes are now stored in sets (bundles of font name, 
size, and style). This should be an enhancement request but I don't 
recall seeing it in bugzilla.

Robert Brenstein

From rjb at rz.uni-potsdam.de  Mon Feb  9 08:41:33 2004
From: rjb at rz.uni-potsdam.de (Robert Brenstein)
Date: Mon, 9 Feb 2004 14:41:33 +0100
Subject: command-2 (previous) and command-3 (next), jumping by 2
In-Reply-To: <E0348274-59FA-11D8-A6DB-000393C4760A@mindlube.com>
References: <139B6EC8-593A-11D8-9BA4-000393B64EDC@lumin.us>
 <p06010208bc4ae5a30e68@[10.0.1.3]>
 <E0348274-59FA-11D8-A6DB-000393C4760A@mindlube.com>
Message-ID: <a06020418bc4d3d7edf51@[141.89.100.235]>

>On Feb 7, 2004, at 12:22 PM, Jeanne A. E. DeVoto wrote:
>
>>Increasing the delay might work, as a workaround.
>
>Oh god. Is this an engine bug or an IDE bug?  Surely "go next" isn't broken?

cmd-3 etc used to be in a frontscript of IDE (commandkeydown handler 
if I recall). I haven't looked at the current implementation in Rev 
but probably it is still the same. My guess is that there is a glitch 
and the front script handler is called twice but the issue may be 
elsewhere. This should be easy to verify by replacing the current 
frontscript with a debug version.

Robert

From jhurley at infostations.com  Mon Feb  9 08:59:55 2004
From: jhurley at infostations.com (Jim Hurley)
Date: Mon, 9 Feb 2004 05:59:55 -0800
Subject: Is Transcript's English orientation a plus or minus?
In-Reply-To: <20040209134729.01D8E930304@mail.runrev.com>
References: <20040209134729.01D8E930304@mail.runrev.com>
Message-ID: <a05100301bc4d425e69e8@[69.19.148.74]>

I english orientation language of RunRev love.

Jim

From rjb at rz.uni-potsdam.de  Mon Feb  9 08:47:22 2004
From: rjb at rz.uni-potsdam.de (Robert Brenstein)
Date: Mon, 9 Feb 2004 14:47:22 +0100
Subject: Tagging certain objects with contact, copyright, etc
In-Reply-To: <8AB91604-59E3-11D8-9B4B-000A9567A3E6@swcp.com>
References: <8AB91604-59E3-11D8-9B4B-000A9567A3E6@swcp.com>
Message-ID: <a06020419bc4d3f043b07@[141.89.100.235]>

>On Saturday, February 7, 2004, at 07:32 PM, Robert Brenstein wrote:
>
>>That's right. If my product uses somebody else's library, I 
>>should/could include a mention of it in my About box but otherwise 
>>it should not be (in typical program) explicitely visible to the 
>>end user. However, as someone said in another email in this thread, 
>>as a developer, I want to see more info, description, examples etc. 
>>Since in library only the stack scripts are the true library, the 
>>cards can be easily used for that documentation, examples, etc. If 
>>I use the library as library, I just 'start using' it. If I want to 
>>see more, I just 'go to' it.
>
>I think this is fine for light documentation.  For heavier 
>documentation this might put some overhead on the size of the stack.

Yes, of course. It is simply option #1 but each library author needs 
to decide what is optimal for his product.

Robert

From kevin at runrev.com  Mon Feb  9 09:23:58 2004
From: kevin at runrev.com (Kevin Miller)
Date: Mon, 09 Feb 2004 14:23:58 +0000
Subject: xTalk Syntax (was Re: Andy's comments and positioning...)
In-Reply-To: <01ef01c3eeb3$94ae1860$6601a8c0@LightningFlash>
Message-ID: <BC4D487E.2A785%kevin@runrev.com>

On 9/2/04 2:22 am, Ken Ray <kray at sonsothunder.com> wrote:

>> I thought Kevin dealt well with that one the other day. If
>> anyone has a 
>> perception that Rev is a Mac tool, there's not much that can
>> be done to 
>> help them. The MacWorld (UK?) reviewer who said that obviously had
>> spent little or no time writing the review. Nothing at RunRev's Web
>> site, in their marketing or, anywhere else that I've seen
>> conveys that 
>> message.
> 
> Sorry, Dan, I respectfully disagree. Rev has had ads or been written
> about in several Mac magazines (MacWorld UK, MacAddict, MacTech), but I
> have yet to see an ad or write-up in a PC magazine (and I subscribe to a
> bunch). I don't know about UNIX mags, but perhaps someone else can
> comment on this. Do a web search for "Runtime Revolution" and see just
> how many "hits" you get for sites that advertise or promote PC
> development tools or news on the PC front.

Actually, we've had lots of reviews in the PC press.  The balance of the
installed base is shifting.  Without in any way losing our great Mac
support, we're working hard on our presence on other platforms.

Kevin Miller ~ kevin at runrev.com ~ http://www.runrev.com/
Runtime Revolution - User-Centric Development Tools


From Roger.E.Eller at sealedair.com  Mon Feb  9 09:19:12 2004
From: Roger.E.Eller at sealedair.com (Roger.E.Eller at sealedair.com)
Date: Mon, 9 Feb 2004 09:19:12 -0500
Subject: Transcript and/or ECMA
Message-ID: <OFDFCBC1B3.281196B3-ON85256E35.004D9B06@sealedair.com>

On 02/09/2004 at 08:06 AM, Claude <opus.species at wanadoo.fr> wrote:

> If Revolution can speak the same langage as JavaScript, Flash (and
> tomorrow Director) that can help thousands of programmer to test it and 
to
> adopt it.
> 
> Claude

This brings an idea to mind... If we can "do fld 1 as AppleScript", can we 
not "do fld 2 as JavaScript"? It looks like even if it does work, it is 
only available to Mac users (according to the documentation for the do 
command, regarding alternate languages). This would be great if it were 
expanded to include all platforms.

Roger Eller <roger.e.eller at sealedair.com>


From FlexibleLearning at aol.com  Mon Feb  9 09:30:19 2004
From: FlexibleLearning at aol.com (FlexibleLearning at aol.com)
Date: Mon, 9 Feb 2004 09:30:19 EST
Subject: Klingon scripting code revolution
Message-ID: <17c.2649ba3f.2d58f37b@aol.com>

Thank you, Xavier. This explains a lot... Microsoft actually comes from the 
alpha quadrant.

/H


> Top 12 Things A Klingon Programmer Would Say
> 12.    Specifications are for the weak and timid! 
> 11.    This machine is a piece of GAGH! I need dual Pentium processors if I 
> am to 
> do battle with this code! 
> 10.    You cannot really appreciate Dilbert unless you've read it in the 
> original 
> Klingon. 
> 9.    Indentation?! -- I will show you how to indent when I indent your 
> skull! 
> 8.    What is this talk of 'release'? Klingons do not make software 
> 'releases'. 
> Our software 'escapes' leaving a bloody trail of designers and quality 
> assurance people in its wake. 
> 7.    Klingon function calls do not have 'parameters' -- they have 
> 'arguments' 
> -- and they ALWAYS WIN THEM. 
> 6.    Debugging? Klingons do not debug. Our software does not coddle the 
> weak. 
> 5.    I have challenged the entire quality assurance team to a Bat-Leth 
> contest. 
> They will not concern us again. 
> 4.    A TRUE Klingon Warrior does not comment his code! 
> 3.    By filing this SPR you have challenged the honor of my family. Prepare 
> to 
> die! 
> 2.    You question the worthiness of my code? I should kill you where you 
> stand! 
> 
> 1.    Our users will know fear and cower before our software. Ship it! Ship 
> it, 
> and let them flee like the dogs they are! 



_________________________________________________
Hugh Senior
The Flexible Learning Company
Consultant Programming & Software Solutions
Fax/Voice: +44 (0)1483.27 87 27
Email: mailto:h at flexibleLearning.com
Web: www.flexibleLearning.com

From FlexibleLearning at aol.com  Mon Feb  9 09:36:52 2004
From: FlexibleLearning at aol.com (FlexibleLearning at aol.com)
Date: Mon, 9 Feb 2004 09:36:52 EST
Subject: Klingon scripting code revolution
Message-ID: <2b.507b874c.2d58f504@aol.com>

Thank you, Xavier. This simly confirms the widespread suspicions that 
Microsoft in fact originated in the alpha quadrant.

/H

From Roger.E.Eller at sealedair.com  Mon Feb  9 09:31:25 2004
From: Roger.E.Eller at sealedair.com (Roger.E.Eller at sealedair.com)
Date: Mon, 9 Feb 2004 09:31:25 -0500
Subject: xTalk Syntax (was Re: Andy's comments and positioning...)
Message-ID: <OF2C33DB04.FB7AEF65-ON85256E35.004F558D@sealedair.com>

On 9/2/04 09:23 AM, Kevin Miller <kevin at runrev.com> wrote:

> Without in any way losing our great Mac
> support, we're working hard on our presence on other platforms.

Kevin,

Does that include SGI Irix? I still don't see any "current" Rev software 
available for all of the supposedly supported flavors of Unix. If you are 
dropping those platforms, please just say so.

Roger Eller <roger.e.eller at sealedair.com>


From 3mcgrath at adelphia.net  Mon Feb  9 09:44:22 2004
From: 3mcgrath at adelphia.net (Thomas McGrath III)
Date: Mon, 9 Feb 2004 09:44:22 -0500
Subject: Is Transcript's English orientation a plus or minus? 
In-Reply-To: <8FE3AB1C-5AEB-11D8-B678-000A9580FCCE@backtalk.com>
References: <8FE3AB1C-5AEB-11D8-B678-000A9580FCCE@backtalk.com>
Message-ID: <72CDD688-5B0E-11D8-B742-000A95DA60FA@adelphia.net>

I like xObject as a name. Sort of an 'xTalk' based upon object models 
for RAD.
I only think of stack, card and controls as objects anyway. I don't 
even 'get' the metaphor anymore. Of course, I don't 'get' the stage, 
players either. I mean deep in my mind when I am planning a new project 
I don't see stacks and cards or stages and players. I see windows with 
elements that need to be there or need to change and what do I need 
them to 'do'.

rambling...

Tom

On Feb 9, 2004, at 5:34 AM, Frank Leahy wrote:

>  HyperCard++ is a Rapid Application Development environment that uses 
> the concepts of stacks, cards and controls to make it relatively easy 
> to build complex multi-window applications.  xTalk, the language that 
> is used to control this RAD, is a HyperTalk clone, but could 
> (theoretically) be replaced with any number of other languages, e.g. 
> C, JavaScript, VB, PHP, etc.
>

Thomas J. McGrath III
SCS
1000 Killarney Dr.
Pittsburgh, PA 15234
412-885-8541


From FlexibleLearning at aol.com  Mon Feb  9 09:46:47 2004
From: FlexibleLearning at aol.com (FlexibleLearning at aol.com)
Date: Mon, 9 Feb 2004 09:46:47 EST
Subject: Klingon scripting code revolution
Message-ID: <1a6.1feab2d4.2d58f757@aol.com>

Thank you, Xavier. This simly confirms the widespread suspicions that 
Microsoft in fact originated in the alpha quadrant.

/H

From b.xavier at internet.lu  Mon Feb  9 10:04:59 2004
From: b.xavier at internet.lu (MisterX)
Date: Mon, 9 Feb 2004 16:04:59 +0100
Subject: Klingon scripting code revolution
In-Reply-To: <2b.507b874c.2d58f504@aol.com>
Message-ID: <ENEALNOCJBOOOHHCCEKNMEMHFMAA.b.xavier@internet.lu>

This is Bill of the Borg,
To debug is futile (we sold it already!).

8X

> -----Original Message-----
> From: use-revolution-bounces at lists.runrev.com
> [mailto:use-revolution-bounces at lists.runrev.com]On Behalf Of
> FlexibleLearning at aol.com
> Sent: Monday, February 09, 2004 15:37
> To: use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> Subject: Re: Klingon scripting code revolution
> 
> 
> Thank you, Xavier. This simly confirms the widespread suspicions that 
> Microsoft in fact originated in the alpha quadrant.
> 
> /H
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution

From gcanyon at inspiredlogic.com  Mon Feb  9 10:04:05 2004
From: gcanyon at inspiredlogic.com (Geoff Canyon)
Date: Mon, 9 Feb 2004 07:04:05 -0800
Subject: Is Transcript's English orientation a plus or minus? (was
	Andy's 	comments and positioning...)
In-Reply-To: <p0602040abc4c71c7f5dd@[192.168.1.100]>
References: <p0602040abc4c71c7f5dd@[192.168.1.100]>
Message-ID: <341E1A76-5B11-11D8-B5C9-003065683ECC@inspiredlogic.com>

I once heard that AppleScript was localizable into other languages -- 
French, I think. I even heard that they produced, but never released, a 
"C" dialect of AppleScript to make the "serious" programmers happy. ;-)

regards,

Geoff Canyon
gcanyon at inspiredlogic.com

On Feb 8, 2004, at 3:09 PM, Stephen Quinn Barncard wrote:

> I imagine it would be a nightmare to 'localize' the syntax to French, 
> German....and prone to more bugs... it's human nature...
>
>
>>
>> Though I like the syntax for my own use and for teaching "junior 
>> associates" (it does help), I think the English orientation might be 
>> somewhat of a weakness in an global sense.  I don't really know and I 
>> don't think I'm much of a judge.
>>
>> Dar Scott
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>


From FlexibleLearning at aol.com  Mon Feb  9 10:04:13 2004
From: FlexibleLearning at aol.com (FlexibleLearning at aol.com)
Date: Mon, 9 Feb 2004 10:04:13 EST
Subject: Klingon scripting code revolution
Message-ID: <ce.45660396.2d58fb6d@aol.com>

Thank you, Xavier. This simly confirms the widespread suspicions that 
Microsoft in fact originated in the alpha quadrant.

/H

From gbojsza at mac.com  Mon Feb  9 10:16:39 2004
From: gbojsza at mac.com (Bojsza)
Date: Mon, 9 Feb 2004 09:16:39 -0600
Subject: Image Angle Background
Message-ID: <F58C54BE-5B12-11D8-A9F8-003065F00EF2@mac.com>

When I

set the angle of image test to 50

The image rotates correctly but the resulting image has a black 
background. I basically want to take one word text fields, convert them 
to images , rotate (or in this case set the angle) them and place the 
resulting rotated images side by side creating a circle.

Can the black background be eliminated or made transparent?

Is there a better way to create rotated text?

thanks,

Glen


From rcozens at pon.net  Mon Feb  9 09:02:30 2004
From: rcozens at pon.net (Rob Cozens)
Date: Mon, 9 Feb 2004 07:02:30 -0700
Subject: Andy's comments and positioning...
In-Reply-To: <82B01AB6-5A73-11D8-9A91-000A9580FCCE@backtalk.com>
References: <82B01AB6-5A73-11D8-9A91-000A9580FCCE@backtalk.com>
Message-ID: <a05100301bc4d41f4bfb7@[66.52.165.217]>

>x = y + z (instead of put y + z into x)
>x += 1 (instead of add 1 to x)
>x.myProperty = foo (instead of set myProperty of x to foo)

>Not supporting these standard statements make the language look a 
>bit "beginner-ish"

Gee Frank,

If memory serves, none of these "standard" statements would pass a 
FORTRAN, COBOL, PL/1, Pascal, or Modula compiler or a BASIC 
interpreter.

Must C syntax prevail for a language to be non-"beginner-ish"?
-- 

Rob Cozens
CCW, Serendipity Software Company
http://www.oenolog.net/who.htm

"And I, which was two fooles, do so grow three;
Who are a little wise, the best fooles bee."

from "The Triple Foole" by John Donne (1572-1631)

From rcozens at pon.net  Mon Feb  9 09:19:15 2004
From: rcozens at pon.net (Rob Cozens)
Date: Mon, 9 Feb 2004 07:19:15 -0700
Subject: Transcript and/or ECMA
In-Reply-To: <opr23tc9d67hj683@smtp.wanadoo.fr>
References: <opr23tc9d67hj683@smtp.wanadoo.fr>
Message-ID: <a05100303bc4d4689d365@[66.52.165.217]>

>
>If Revolution can speak the same langage as JavaScript, Flash (and 
>tomorrow Director) that can help thousands of programmer to test it 
>and to adopt it.

If JavaScript, Flash, (and tomorrow Director) programmers would learn 
Transcript, they might find themselves in possession of new 
capabilities and experiencing much shorter development cycles.
-- 

Rob Cozens
CCW, Serendipity Software Company
http://www.oenolog.net/who.htm

"And I, which was two fooles, do so grow three;
Who are a little wise, the best fooles bee."

from "The Triple Foole" by John Donne (1572-1631)

From frank at backtalk.com  Mon Feb  9 10:31:15 2004
From: frank at backtalk.com (Frank Leahy)
Date: Mon, 9 Feb 2004 15:31:15 +0000
Subject: Window resizing before open?
Message-ID: <FF987263-5B14-11D8-B678-000A9580FCCE@backtalk.com>

Hi,

I seem to recall a discussion a month or so ago about how to set a 
window's size before it opens -- but I can't find it via Google.

All of my windows want to resize themselves smaller when they open, and 
so I've taken to resetting the height on preOpenStack, and because that 
doesn't always work, in openStack as well.  But this can cause a flash 
as the if the resize happens after it becomes visible.

Can someone enlighten me about the best way to resize a window before 
it becomes visible?

Thanks,
-- Frank


From kevin at runrev.com  Mon Feb  9 10:37:05 2004
From: kevin at runrev.com (Kevin Miller)
Date: Mon, 09 Feb 2004 15:37:05 +0000
Subject: xTalk Syntax (was Re: Andy's comments and positioning...)
In-Reply-To: <OF2C33DB04.FB7AEF65-ON85256E35.004F558D@sealedair.com>
Message-ID: <BC4D59A1.2A7BD%kevin@runrev.com>

On 9/2/04 2:31 pm, Roger.E.Eller at sealedair.com <Roger.E.Eller at sealedair.com>
wrote:

> Does that include SGI Irix? I still don't see any "current" Rev software
> available for all of the supposedly supported flavors of Unix. If you are
> dropping those platforms, please just say so.
> 
> Roger Eller <roger.e.eller at sealedair.com>

We're not.  A couple of the platform build boxes got lost during the
technology acquisition process, we're sorting it out.  In the mean time, 2.0
works just fine on that platform, and there aren't many platform specific
changes so I would recommend just using the 2.0 engine with the current IDE.

Kevin

Kevin Miller ~ kevin at runrev.com ~ http://www.runrev.com/
Runtime Revolution - User-Centric Development Tools


From scott at tactilemedia.com  Mon Feb  9 10:40:52 2004
From: scott at tactilemedia.com (Scott Rossi)
Date: Mon, 09 Feb 2004 07:40:52 -0800
Subject: Window resizing before open?
In-Reply-To: <FF987263-5B14-11D8-B678-000A9580FCCE@backtalk.com>
Message-ID: <BC4CEA04.9D8C%scott@tactilemedia.com>

On 2/9/04 7:31 AM, "Frank Leahy" <frank at backtalk.com> wrote:

> I seem to recall a discussion a month or so ago about how to set a
> window's size before it opens -- but I can't find it via Google.
> 
> All of my windows want to resize themselves smaller when they open, and
> so I've taken to resetting the height on preOpenStack, and because that
> doesn't always work, in openStack as well.  But this can cause a flash
> as the if the resize happens after it becomes visible.

Setting the size of your stack in a preOpenStack handler should work fine
(been doing it for years without a problem).  Are you sure the stack's
alwaysBuffer is set to true?

Regards,

Scott Rossi
Creative Director
Tactile Media, Development & Design
-----
E: scott at tactilemedia.com
W: http://www.tactilemedia.com


From rcozens at pon.net  Mon Feb  9 10:01:52 2004
From: rcozens at pon.net (Rob Cozens)
Date: Mon, 9 Feb 2004 08:01:52 -0700
Subject: Window resizing before open?
In-Reply-To: <FF987263-5B14-11D8-B678-000A9580FCCE@backtalk.com>
References: <FF987263-5B14-11D8-B678-000A9580FCCE@backtalk.com>
Message-ID: <a05100307bc4d4e1699a8@[66.52.165.159]>

>All of my windows want to resize themselves smaller when they open, 
>and so I've taken to resetting the height on preOpenStack, and 
>because that doesn't always work,

Frank,

On Mac platforms at least, there are two things one should NOT do in 
preOpenStack: (1.)  Reference a stack menu control and (2) set stack 
height.

The engine activates stack menus somewhere in the transition between 
preOpenStack & openStack; so unless you address a menu button as a 
button control, it is unknown to the engine at preOpenStack...or 
worse yet, the menus .

An ancillary effect of this is that any stack height settings done in 
preOpenStack are changed when the menus are activated on Mac OS.

So keep stack height changes out of preOpen handlers (or don't use 
menus), and if you must address menus in preOpenStack, address them 
as buttons, not menus.
-- 

Rob Cozens
CCW, Serendipity Software Company
http://www.oenolog.net/who.htm

"And I, which was two fooles, do so grow three;
Who are a little wise, the best fooles bee."

from "The Triple Foole" by John Donne (1572-1631)

From rcozens at pon.net  Mon Feb  9 10:06:56 2004
From: rcozens at pon.net (Rob Cozens)
Date: Mon, 9 Feb 2004 08:06:56 -0700
Subject: Window resizing before open?
In-Reply-To: <BC4CEA04.9D8C%scott@tactilemedia.com>
References: <BC4CEA04.9D8C%scott@tactilemedia.com>
Message-ID: <a05100308bc4d51916aef@[66.52.165.159]>

>Setting the size of your stack in a preOpenStack handler should work fine
>(been doing it for years without a problem).

Are you running stacks with menus on Mac OS, Scott?

I find stack height is often wrong unless I adjust it in openStack.

Try opening the Distribution Builder and loading several build 
configuration stacks in turn on Mac OS.  Sooner or later you will see 
the DB window shortened upon opening one of those stacks.
-- 

Rob Cozens
CCW, Serendipity Software Company
http://www.oenolog.net/who.htm

"And I, which was two fooles, do so grow three;
Who are a little wise, the best fooles bee."

from "The Triple Foole" by John Donne (1572-1631)

From ambassador at fourthworld.com  Mon Feb  9 11:10:41 2004
From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin)
Date: Mon, 09 Feb 2004 08:10:41 -0800
Subject: mission critical apps; was Re: cross platform ide
In-Reply-To: <59E7BE68-5AF1-11D8-B678-000A9580FCCE@backtalk.com>
Message-ID: <BC4CF101.3CFCC%ambassador@fourthworld.com>

Frank Leahy wrote:

> In most any other dev environment, the only "messages" your app gets
> are mouse and keyboard events, and possibly network events/messages --
> otherwise you are in control of everything else, from what gets drawn
> on the screen to what user interaction occurs.

...requiring you to roll your own for everything else, unless you use an
even-driven framework like the old THINK Class Library, Metrowerks'
PowerPlant, or Apple's Cocoa.

Think of Rev as a precompiled framework.

> 1) There is no convention for whether one needs to pass messages up to
> the system.  For example,
> 
> on openCard
> ...do my stuff...
> pass openCard
> end openCard
> 
> What impact, if any does passing or not passing openCard (or any other
> message) to the system have?

There is no one right way to use "pass".  You can choose to pass system
messages or not as the specifics of the task at hand require.

Passing a message means you can augment the behavior downstream, not passing
means the handling will not be affected by downstream objects.

Having options for solving different problems in different ways is a feature
enjoyed by most languages.

> 2) It's hard to guarantee the message passing context.
> 
> on someCommonFunction
> send "foo" to this stack
> end someCommonFunction
> 
> Sometimes the only way to guarantee that this gets sent to the right
> stack is to make sure the "this" stack is physically frontmost.

Or to use a less ambiguous object reference:

  send "foo" to stack "MyStack"

Having both context-dependent and absolute object references is a feature of
many programming languages.


> 3) The messaging model does not always work correctly.  And it
> sometimes works differently depending on where the code resides.
> 
> For example, correctness: I've been adding drag and drop to my app, and
> very often neither dragEnd nor dragLeave are called.  It's probably a
> bug, but it isn't the only messaging bug I've seen.
> 
> As for "works differently": "on drag..." handlers work differently if
> they're in a control script vs a card script vs a stack script.  That
> shouldn't be the case.

This may be the difference between a language feature and a bug.  If you
have a repeatable recipe for behavior that deviates from the docs then
please submit it to Bugzilla.

All software has bugs.  If CodeWarrior won't compile an API call correctly
it doesn't reflect on the design of the API.


> 4) Race conditions.
> 
> I've seen cases where multiple "dragMove" messages get fired before my
> "dragEnter" handler completes.  This caused all sorts of havoc with my
> code.  And without a semaphore mechanism built-in to the language it's
> impossible to know if I've solved the problem, or whether it will crop
> up again on a faster or different machine.

The potential for race conditions is not unique to xTalk, but is inherent in
any thread-like system.

If you're having difficulty getting reliable behavior post your code and
lets see what we can do.


All in all, these sound less like the sorts of arguments an IT manager would
offer against xTalk than simply evidence of a learning curve as there is
with any comprehensive framework.

And none of them are unique to xTalk (though the simplicity of the examples
is <g>).

-- 
 Richard Gaskin 
 Fourth World Media Corporation
 ___________________________________________________________
 Ambassador at FourthWorld.com       http://www.FourthWorld.com


From alex at mindlube.com  Mon Feb  9 11:40:29 2004
From: alex at mindlube.com (Alex Rice)
Date: Mon, 9 Feb 2004 09:40:29 -0700
Subject: mission critical apps; was Re: cross platform ide
In-Reply-To: <59E7BE68-5AF1-11D8-B678-000A9580FCCE@backtalk.com>
References: <59E7BE68-5AF1-11D8-B678-000A9580FCCE@backtalk.com>
Message-ID: <ABA48EEE-5B1E-11D8-9773-000393C4760A@mindlube.com>


On Feb 9, 2004, at 4:16 AM, Frank Leahy wrote:

Richard wrote:
>> What is the argument against the xTalk messaging model?

I'll keep repeating it: the argument is you don't know at until runtime 
if the message goes where you think it will go. One way to state it is 
"throwing a message out for some object to catch, hopefully".

Frank wrote:
> 1) There is no convention for whether one needs to pass messages up to 
> the system.  For example,
> 2) It's hard to guarantee the message passing context.
> 3) The messaging model does not always work correctly.  And it 
> sometimes works differently depending on where the code resides.
> 4) Race conditions.

Thank you Frank you are hitting the nail on the head.

--
Alex Rice | Mindlube Software | http://mindlube.com


From alex at mindlube.com  Mon Feb  9 11:48:07 2004
From: alex at mindlube.com (Alex Rice)
Date: Mon, 9 Feb 2004 09:48:07 -0700
Subject: mission critical apps; was Re: cross platform ide
In-Reply-To: <GGEOJBEEGFHLDOFIMMPIEEPIFPAA.chipp@chipp.com>
References: <GGEOJBEEGFHLDOFIMMPIEEPIFPAA.chipp@chipp.com>
Message-ID: <BCDEEB0B-5B1F-11D8-9773-000393C4760A@mindlube.com>


On Feb 9, 2004, at 12:46 AM, Chipp Walters wrote:

>
> 1) Your inability to answer a question about messaging does not make RR
> unfit for work in the Enterprise.

I didn't mean to imply that. I said: "I mean where $, property, or 
safety is actually at stake. ... It's a legitimate question, issue, and 
(perhaps) there are places where xtalks are not a good solution. A very 
few places."

I think there are lots of enterprise types of apps that are not mission 
critical and I wouldn't hesitate to use runrev for those.

> Not that I'm saying you aren't smart about
> these things, I know just the opposite is true, just looking at some 
> of the
> projects you've created in Rev points out your obvious skills:-)

Thank you.

> But, salesmen come in all forms. I would suggest a different tact: Use 
> RR to
> prototype the mission critical tool.

Don't appeal to programmer productivity. I already know runrev is the 
most productive tool for me. That's not the issue. I asked: "How are 
you going to sell xtalks in a corporate environment where reliability 
and correctness is _more important than programmer productivity_ ?"

> 2) There are many factors which go into tool selection. Unfortunately 
> for
> RR, there are many which would seem to disqualify it before even 
> starting.

Good points

> All of that being said, I am currently working on 3 Enterprise class RR
> applications. I did them all by prototyping and convincing the 
> management
> they can save LOTS of $$$ by letting us develop in RR vs VB or C. So 
> far,
> it's worked.

Great! Are they mission critical? (my definition = $, property or 
safety is at stake)

>  So, IMO, thinking of it a multimedia/game tool is most limiting.

Well yeah! Most of what I've used Rev for is business applications (the 
estimation model for ARC). But it's not mission critical. It's a fancy 
"calculator" that can be restarted or reworked if it doesn't work 
correctly.


--
Alex Rice | Mindlube Software | http://mindlube.com


From scott at tactilemedia.com  Mon Feb  9 11:56:34 2004
From: scott at tactilemedia.com (Scott Rossi)
Date: Mon, 09 Feb 2004 08:56:34 -0800
Subject: Window resizing before open?
In-Reply-To: <a05100308bc4d51916aef@[66.52.165.159]>
Message-ID: <BC4CFBC2.A0A7%scott@tactilemedia.com>

Recently, "Rob Cozens"  wrote:

>> Setting the size of your stack in a preOpenStack handler should work fine
>> (been doing it for years without a problem).
> 
> Are you running stacks with menus on Mac OS, Scott?
> 
> I find stack height is often wrong unless I adjust it in openStack.
> 
> Try opening the Distribution Builder and loading several build
> configuration stacks in turn on Mac OS.  Sooner or later you will see
> the DB window shortened upon opening one of those stacks.

You might want to try seeing if you can create a resizing problem with the
IDE suspended.

Regards,

Scott Rossi
Creative Director
Tactile Media, Multimedia & Design
-----
E: scott at tactilemedia.com
W: http://www.tactilemedia.com


From alex at mindlube.com  Mon Feb  9 11:56:38 2004
From: alex at mindlube.com (Alex Rice)
Date: Mon, 9 Feb 2004 09:56:38 -0700
Subject: Would you have written it in time? was Re: mission critical apps
In-Reply-To: <FE17B32F-5ADF-11D8-AB96-0003935A2896@azurevision.co.uk>
References: <BC4C8255.3CF62%ambassador@fourthworld.com>
	<FE17B32F-5ADF-11D8-AB96-0003935A2896@azurevision.co.uk>
Message-ID: <ED672C7E-5B20-11D8-9773-000393C4760A@mindlube.com>


On Feb 9, 2004, at 2:11 AM, Ian Wood wrote:
> How many programs have you all written quickly in Revolution that 
> would have taken much too long with another tool/language?

Like I said to Chipp: Don't appeal to programmer productivity. I 
already know runrev is the most productive tool for me. That's not the 
issue. I asked: "How are you going to sell xtalks in a corporate 
environment where reliability and correctness is _more important than 
programmer productivity_ ?"

> The only advantage of Cocoa would have been the ability to output a 
> video file rather than a folder full of single images.

Cocoa (Objective-C) also uses the smalltalk messaging model (messages 
can fail at runtime) So in this thread I lump objective-c together with 
smalltalk and xtalk.

Since you bring it up: I am a Cocoa programmer also. Cocoa is an 
incredibly rich application framework. In just a few lines of code you 
can create an app with a multi-document architecture, complete with 
multiple document windows and all the machinery for your "file menu": 
new/open/save/save as. I wrote Slacker ToDo Lists in Cocoa. Originally 
it was written in RealBasic. I trashed that version and rewrote it from 
Scratch in Cocoa. It's a MacOS X only app. A lot of the features would 
have been impossible to implement in runrev. But it's a niche app: Mac 
OS X only. Was never intended to be xplatform.

--
Alex Rice | Mindlube Software | http://mindlube.com


From FlexibleLearning at aol.com  Mon Feb  9 11:59:40 2004
From: FlexibleLearning at aol.com (FlexibleLearning at aol.com)
Date: Mon, 9 Feb 2004 11:59:40 EST
Subject: Klingon scripting code revolution
Message-ID: <20.2209b6cc.2d59167c@aol.com>

Thank you, Xavier. This simly confirms the widespread suspicions that 
Microsoft in fact originated in the alpha quadrant.

/H

From FlexibleLearning at aol.com  Mon Feb  9 12:07:16 2004
From: FlexibleLearning at aol.com (FlexibleLearning at aol.com)
Date: Mon, 9 Feb 2004 12:07:16 EST
Subject: Klingon scripting code revolution
Message-ID: <18c.257daea0.2d591844@aol.com>

Thank you, Xavier. This simly confirms the widespread suspicions that 
Microsoft in fact originated in the alpha quadrant.

/H

From rcozens at pon.net  Mon Feb  9 11:00:15 2004
From: rcozens at pon.net (Rob Cozens)
Date: Mon, 9 Feb 2004 09:00:15 -0700
Subject: mission critical apps; was Re: cross platform ide
In-Reply-To: <BCDEEB0B-5B1F-11D8-9773-000393C4760A@mindlube.com>
References: <GGEOJBEEGFHLDOFIMMPIEEPIFPAA.chipp@chipp.com>
 <BCDEEB0B-5B1F-11D8-9773-000393C4760A@mindlube.com>
Message-ID: <a0510030abc4d5e2e619b@[66.52.165.159]>

>>2) There are many factors which go into tool selection. Unfortunately for
>>RR, there are many which would seem to disqualify it before even starting.
>
>Good points

Alex and original poster:  Don't give me an "Andy Ihnatko 
generalities", list these "factors."
-- 

Rob Cozens
CCW, Serendipity Software Company
http://www.oenolog.net/who.htm

"And I, which was two fooles, do so grow three;
Who are a little wise, the best fooles bee."

from "The Triple Foole" by John Donne (1572-1631)

From rcozens at pon.net  Mon Feb  9 11:20:43 2004
From: rcozens at pon.net (Rob Cozens)
Date: Mon, 9 Feb 2004 09:20:43 -0700
Subject: Andy's comments and positioning...
Message-ID: <a0510030bbc4d5f46a35e@[66.52.165.159]>


>Not supporting these standard statements make the language look a 
>bit "beginner-ish"

Frank, et al:

Is there something inherently inferior about a programming 
environment that can be used productively by someone who doesn't have 
a degree in computer science?

Do professional developers feel threatened by the concept of business 
people writing custom software to drive their business without 
employing a programmer to assist or do the job for them?

As a professional with 30 years in the field, I am IMPRESSED that 
people like local MUG HyperCard SIG member, Carl Chaney, could write 
functional work order processing, invoicing, & tax reconciliation 
software for his laser engraving business and a point of sale system 
for his daughter's ice cream parlor in HyperTalk without taking one 
programming course and without even any experience using a 
spreadsheet.  Sure his work looked "beginner-ish"; BUT IT DID THE JOB 
HE WANTED DONE.

Does the fact that Carl Chaney could do that in X-Talk, does that 
mean, a priori, that X-Talk is an inferior development environment?

If programming were illustration and program languages were boxes of 
crayons, my analogy would be:

Give a room full of ordinary people X-Talk crayons, and everyone of 
them will create an illustration.  A ten year old's illustration may 
look less polished than an adult's, which in turn may look less 
polished than a professional illustrator's; but everyone can produce 
something meaningful to them.

Give a room full of ordinary people C crayons, and most won't be able 
to draw a single line.

Which environment is truly "beginner-ish"?
-- 

Rob Cozens
CCW, Serendipity Software Company
http://www.oenolog.net/who.htm

"And I, which was two fooles, do so grow three;
Who are a little wise, the best fooles bee."

from "The Triple Foole" by John Donne (1572-1631)

From stephenREVOLUTION at barncard.com  Mon Feb  9 12:24:00 2004
From: stephenREVOLUTION at barncard.com (Stephen Quinn Barncard)
Date: Mon, 9 Feb 2004 09:24:00 -0800
Subject: REV and multimedia
Message-ID: <p06020414bc4d6faf77ec@[192.168.1.100]>

Why this big negative about using Apple technologies? Quicktime works 
well, and is free. All this Applephobia is getting really dumb. Does 
Sony think they will sell more videocams because they call Firewire 
iLink, even though Apple created it?

People should get over the fact that Apple developed almost every new 
computer technology over the last 15 years and get over it. All the 
PC companies had plenty of time to develop iPods, Wireless, utilize 
USB (I know apple didn't invent it but they were the first to embrace 
it), and they invented a Teleconferencing system that actually worked 
well (iSight).

All Windoze and Linux users have all benefited from Apple "raising 
the bar" and should admit it.


>
>As far as multimedia is concerned, Revolution as a native support 
>for Quicktime, clearly an Apple technology. Windows and Linux users 
>are not so happy...
>
>Claude

From alex at mindlube.com  Mon Feb  9 12:35:14 2004
From: alex at mindlube.com (Alex Rice)
Date: Mon, 9 Feb 2004 10:35:14 -0700
Subject: REV and multimedia
In-Reply-To: <p06020414bc4d6faf77ec@[192.168.1.100]>
References: <p06020414bc4d6faf77ec@[192.168.1.100]>
Message-ID: <51ACA48A-5B26-11D8-9773-000393C4760A@mindlube.com>


On Feb 9, 2004, at 10:24 AM, Stephen Quinn Barncard wrote:

> Why this big negative about using Apple technologies? Quicktime works 
> well, and is free.

Quicktime is not available for Linux. Quicktime for Windows is a 16MB 
download.
For a shareware developer to require users to make a 16MB download 
could be a problem.

--
Alex Rice | Mindlube Software | http://mindlube.com


From ambassador at fourthworld.com  Mon Feb  9 12:36:26 2004
From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin)
Date: Mon, 09 Feb 2004 09:36:26 -0800
Subject: mission critical apps; was Re: cross platform ide
In-Reply-To: <ABA48EEE-5B1E-11D8-9773-000393C4760A@mindlube.com>
Message-ID: <BC4D051A.3CFEB%ambassador@fourthworld.com>

Alex Rice wrote:

> 
> On Feb 9, 2004, at 4:16 AM, Frank Leahy wrote:
> 
> Richard wrote:
>>> What is the argument against the xTalk messaging model?
> 
> I'll keep repeating it: the argument is you don't know at until runtime
> if the message goes where you think it will go. One way to state it is
> "throwing a message out for some object to catch, hopefully".

The problem has been discussed in detail on the Improve-Rev list.
My question was:

  Can you think of a way to address those concerns while retaining
  the essential flavor of the language?

How would you like it to work, and have you submitted an enhancement request
for it?

> Frank wrote:
>> 1) There is no convention for whether one needs to pass messages up to
>> the system.  For example,
>> 2) It's hard to guarantee the message passing context.
>> 3) The messaging model does not always work correctly.  And it
>> sometimes works differently depending on where the code resides.
>> 4) Race conditions.
> 
> Thank you Frank you are hitting the nail on the head.

He did but looking at the explanations he provided for each, none of them
were unique to xTalk.

One could rephrase those as:

1. Transcript is flexible and requires me to make choices.
2. It's possible to make suboptimal choices for object references.
3. Software sometimes has bugs. (FWIW I rarely see messaging bugs)
4. The potential for race conditions exists in multi-tasking systems.

--
 Richard Gaskin 
 Fourth World Media Corporation
 ___________________________________________________________
 Ambassador at FourthWorld.com       http://www.FourthWorld.com


From alex at mindlube.com  Mon Feb  9 12:38:41 2004
From: alex at mindlube.com (Alex Rice)
Date: Mon, 9 Feb 2004 10:38:41 -0700
Subject: mission critical apps; was Re: cross platform ide
In-Reply-To: <a0510030abc4d5e2e619b@[66.52.165.159]>
References: <GGEOJBEEGFHLDOFIMMPIEEPIFPAA.chipp@chipp.com>
	<BCDEEB0B-5B1F-11D8-9773-000393C4760A@mindlube.com>
	<a0510030abc4d5e2e619b@[66.52.165.159]>
Message-ID: <CD21ABCA-5B26-11D8-9773-000393C4760A@mindlube.com>


On Feb 9, 2004, at 9:00 AM, Rob Cozens wrote:

> Alex and original poster:  Don't give me an "Andy Ihnatko  
> generalities", list these "factors."

<http://lists.runrev.com/pipermail/use-revolution/2004-February/ 
030969.html>


--
Alex Rice | Mindlube Software | http://mindlube.com


From FlexibleLearning at aol.com  Mon Feb  9 12:38:34 2004
From: FlexibleLearning at aol.com (FlexibleLearning at aol.com)
Date: Mon, 9 Feb 2004 12:38:34 EST
Subject: Apologies
Message-ID: <97.43d0ffc5.2d591f9a@aol.com>

Apologies for multiple posts... Email system is giving me grief. A lot.
/H

From ambassador at fourthworld.com  Mon Feb  9 12:39:25 2004
From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin)
Date: Mon, 09 Feb 2004 09:39:25 -0800
Subject: REV and multimedia
In-Reply-To: <p06020414bc4d6faf77ec@[192.168.1.100]>
Message-ID: <BC4D05CD.3CFF4%ambassador@fourthworld.com>

Stephen Quinn Barncard wrote:

> Why this big negative about using Apple technologies? Quicktime works
> well, and is free.
...
> All Windoze and Linux users have all benefited from Apple "raising
> the bar" and should admit it.

Where is QuickTime for Linux?

-- 
 Richard Gaskin 
 Fourth World Media Corporation
 ___________________________________________________________
 Ambassador at FourthWorld.com       http://www.FourthWorld.com


From klaus at major-k.de  Mon Feb  9 12:46:54 2004
From: klaus at major-k.de (Klaus Major)
Date: Mon, 9 Feb 2004 18:46:54 +0100
Subject: REV and multimedia
In-Reply-To: <51ACA48A-5B26-11D8-9773-000393C4760A@mindlube.com>
References: <p06020414bc4d6faf77ec@[192.168.1.100]>
	<51ACA48A-5B26-11D8-9773-000393C4760A@mindlube.com>
Message-ID: <F2C03156-5B27-11D8-B447-000A27B49A96@major-k.de>

Hi all,

>
> On Feb 9, 2004, at 10:24 AM, Stephen Quinn Barncard wrote:
>
>> Why this big negative about using Apple technologies? Quicktime works 
>> well, and is free.
> Quicktime is not available for Linux.

That's sad but true :-(

But there might be light at the end of the tunnel :-)

This is from http://www.macosrumors.com/
(ok, it's a rumour, but sounds pretty cool ;-):

> Tuesday, February 3
>
> Apple's 10.4 "Linux initiative" could work both ways. Today's crop of 
> new reports on
> this topic not only provide considerable confirmation that Apple is 
> indeed pondering
> a "Linux adoption" move, but hint at an angle we haven't covered 
> yet.It has been
> suggested that Apple could gain quite a bit of attention and support 
> from the
> GNU/Linux/OSS communities by porting more of its key pieces of 
> software to
> Linux: Xcode, Rendezvous, QuickTime, iTunes, and iChat have all been
> mentioned. More on this later in the week as we continue to analyze 
> this
> particularly tantalizing line of inquiry....


> Quicktime for Windows is a 16MB download.
> For a shareware developer to require users to make a 16MB download 
> could be a problem.

 From the Apple QT page:

> QuickTime 5 was downloaded over 100 million times by both Windows and 
> Mac customers
> in its first year. And QuickTime 6 is even more popular, reaching 175 
> million downloads in
> less than 18 months. Every day, more than 300,000 people download 
> QuickTime...

So, where the heck are these millions of users?

I know people who ARE having trouble installing QT, but in all of the 
cases (i have seen!)
they were running win98/SE/ME and the system was totally due to a 
re-installation!!!

So in general, there are no reasons to not install QT on your pc...


But maybe someone should write a "libMCI" though :-D

> Alex Rice | Mindlube Software | http://mindlube.com

Regards

Klaus Major
klaus at major-k.de
www.major-k.de


From rcozens at pon.net  Mon Feb  9 11:23:33 2004
From: rcozens at pon.net (Rob Cozens)
Date: Mon, 9 Feb 2004 09:23:33 -0700
Subject: Window resizing before open?
In-Reply-To: <BC4CFBC2.A0A7%scott@tactilemedia.com>
References: <BC4CFBC2.A0A7%scott@tactilemedia.com>
Message-ID: <a0510030cbc4d6473daa2@[66.52.165.159]>

>You might want to try seeing if you can create a resizing problem with the
>IDE suspended.

Good suggestion, Scott.  I will do so.
-- 

Rob Cozens
CCW, Serendipity Software Company
http://www.oenolog.net/who.htm

"And I, which was two fooles, do so grow three;
Who are a little wise, the best fooles bee."

from "The Triple Foole" by John Donne (1572-1631)

From rcozens at pon.net  Mon Feb  9 11:48:01 2004
From: rcozens at pon.net (Rob Cozens)
Date: Mon, 9 Feb 2004 09:48:01 -0700
Subject: Would you have written it in time? was Re: mission critical
 apps
In-Reply-To: <ED672C7E-5B20-11D8-9773-000393C4760A@mindlube.com>
References: <BC4C8255.3CF62%ambassador@fourthworld.com>
 <FE17B32F-5ADF-11D8-AB96-0003935A2896@azurevision.co.uk>
 <ED672C7E-5B20-11D8-9773-000393C4760A@mindlube.com>
Message-ID: <a0510030dbc4d64a8e715@[66.52.165.159]>

>I asked: "How are you going to sell xtalks in a corporate 
>environment where reliability and correctness is _more important 
>than programmer productivity_ ?"

Alex,

You're probably not; so those corporate environments, which never 
have & never will embrace cutting-edge technology until it is passe 
and replaced by new technology, will not be good target market places 
for Revolution for at least a decade..

How do you respond when a business owner or corporate executive tells 
you proudly about the great deal he/she got from IBM on a System 36 
four years after it was discontinued in favor of the AS/400?  As I 
said in a previous post, in my experience these types make 
unsatisfactory (and often unsatisfied) clients.

Anyone with a HyperCard legacy knows the story of the aviation 
company (North American?) with an HC application providing online 
schematics of all jet airliner parts to both the workers assembling 
the planes & the mechanics maintaining them.  At the time of the IHUG 
effort to keep Apple from pulling the plug on HyperCard, I contacted 
someone involved in the project and asked if the corporate CEO 
wouldn't like to contact Steve Jobs on HyperCard's behalf.  His 
response was:

"Top management hates HyperCard, because our application is the 
reason they cannot phase out all Apple computers.  Three times they 
have attempted to rewrite our system in Windows, and three times they 
have given up after pouring lots of money into the project without 
ever getting close to duplicating the HyperCard application's 
functionality."  [Amazing for a "beginner-ish" language, eh Frank. 
:{`)  ]

You are quite welcome to deal with corporate idiots such as these, 
Alex, but let's not drag Transcript down to curry favor with 
no-nothings.

And, by the way, reliability is not an issue from my perspective. 
How long has the underlying MetaCard engine been on the market?
-- 

Rob Cozens
CCW, Serendipity Software Company
http://www.oenolog.net/who.htm

"And I, which was two fooles, do so grow three;
Who are a little wise, the best fooles bee."

from "The Triple Foole" by John Donne (1572-1631)

From alex at mindlube.com  Mon Feb  9 12:51:59 2004
From: alex at mindlube.com (Alex Rice)
Date: Mon, 9 Feb 2004 10:51:59 -0700
Subject: mission critical apps; was Re: cross platform ide
In-Reply-To: <BC4D051A.3CFEB%ambassador@fourthworld.com>
References: <BC4D051A.3CFEB%ambassador@fourthworld.com>
Message-ID: <A8B95A8D-5B28-11D8-9773-000393C4760A@mindlube.com>


On Feb 9, 2004, at 10:36 AM, Richard Gaskin wrote:

> My question was:
>
>   Can you think of a way to address those concerns while retaining
>   the essential flavor of the language?
>
> How would you like it to work, and have you submitted an enhancement 
> request
> for it?

I have no solutions. It cannot be solved by tweaking the language.

With xtalk you discover bugs at runtime. period.

With other tools you discover bugs at runtime, but also flush them out 
at compile time, and *design* them out beforehand through static typing 
and strict interfaces and function signatures.

This presents unique challenges for mission critical apps.

By it's very nature, runrev presents some unique challenges for 
producing reliable, quality code. Why try to gloss over these 
challenges, or dismiss them as part of the learning curve, as known 
issues, or as possible bugs? That's what you were doing with Frank 
Leahy's list of issues. But he can defend them if he cares to.


--
Alex Rice | Mindlube Software | http://mindlube.com


From rcozens at pon.net  Mon Feb  9 11:55:31 2004
From: rcozens at pon.net (Rob Cozens)
Date: Mon, 9 Feb 2004 09:55:31 -0700
Subject: mission critical apps; was Re: cross platform ide
In-Reply-To: <CD21ABCA-5B26-11D8-9773-000393C4760A@mindlube.com>
References: <GGEOJBEEGFHLDOFIMMPIEEPIFPAA.chipp@chipp.com>
 <BCDEEB0B-5B1F-11D8-9773-000393C4760A@mindlube.com>
 <a0510030abc4d5e2e619b@[66.52.165.159]>
 <CD21ABCA-5B26-11D8-9773-000393C4760A@mindlube.com>
Message-ID: <a0510030ebc4d6bc091cb@[66.52.165.159]>

>>Alex and original poster:  Don't give me an "Andy Ihnatko 
>>generalities", list these "factors."
>
><http://lists.runrev.com/pipermail/use-revolution/2004-February/ 030969.html>

Thanks, Alex...

Now can you tell me which thread to search; there are a lot of 
messages at the URL
-- 

Rob Cozens
CCW, Serendipity Software Company
http://www.oenolog.net/who.htm

"And I, which was two fooles, do so grow three;
Who are a little wise, the best fooles bee."

from "The Triple Foole" by John Donne (1572-1631)

From alex at mindlube.com  Mon Feb  9 12:58:52 2004
From: alex at mindlube.com (Alex Rice)
Date: Mon, 9 Feb 2004 10:58:52 -0700
Subject: Would you have written it in time? was Re: mission critical apps
In-Reply-To: <a0510030dbc4d64a8e715@[66.52.165.159]>
References: <BC4C8255.3CF62%ambassador@fourthworld.com>
	<FE17B32F-5ADF-11D8-AB96-0003935A2896@azurevision.co.uk>
	<ED672C7E-5B20-11D8-9773-000393C4760A@mindlube.com>
	<a0510030dbc4d64a8e715@[66.52.165.159]>
Message-ID: <9F303652-5B29-11D8-9773-000393C4760A@mindlube.com>


On Feb 9, 2004, at 9:48 AM, Rob Cozens wrote:
> You are quite welcome to deal with corporate idiots such as these, 
> Alex, but let's not drag Transcript down to curry favor with 
> no-nothings.

Sounds like politics to me. I am raising a hypothetical question. 
Suppose you were trying to bring xtalk apps into such an environment.

> And, by the way, reliability is not an issue from my perspective. How 
> long has the underlying MetaCard engine been on the market?

You've had 10 years to get up to speed with it. Naturally you are 
comfortable with it and it is not an issue for you.

--
Alex Rice | Mindlube Software | http://mindlube.com


From alex at mindlube.com  Mon Feb  9 13:00:45 2004
From: alex at mindlube.com (Alex Rice)
Date: Mon, 9 Feb 2004 11:00:45 -0700
Subject: mission critical apps; was Re: cross platform ide
In-Reply-To: <a0510030ebc4d6bc091cb@[66.52.165.159]>
References: <GGEOJBEEGFHLDOFIMMPIEEPIFPAA.chipp@chipp.com>
	<BCDEEB0B-5B1F-11D8-9773-000393C4760A@mindlube.com>
	<a0510030abc4d5e2e619b@[66.52.165.159]>
	<CD21ABCA-5B26-11D8-9773-000393C4760A@mindlube.com>
	<a0510030ebc4d6bc091cb@[66.52.165.159]>
Message-ID: <E23BE4D2-5B29-11D8-9773-000393C4760A@mindlube.com>


On Feb 9, 2004, at 9:55 AM, Rob Cozens wrote:

>>> Alex and original poster:  Don't give me an "Andy Ihnatko 
>>> generalities", list these "factors."
>>
>> <http://lists.runrev.com/pipermail/use-revolution/2004-February/ 
>> 030969.html>
>
> Thanks, Alex...
>
> Now can you tell me which thread to search; there are a lot of 
> messages at the URL

The URL is to the exact message in question. Maybe someone's mail 
client added spaces. Remove the spaces from then end of the URL:

>> 2004-February/030969.html


--
Alex Rice | Mindlube Software | http://mindlube.com


From psahores at easynet.fr  Mon Feb  9 13:04:27 2004
From: psahores at easynet.fr (Pierre Sahores)
Date: Mon, 9 Feb 2004 19:04:27 +0100
Subject: REV and multimedia
In-Reply-To: <BC4D05CD.3CFF4%ambassador@fourthworld.com>
References: <BC4D05CD.3CFF4%ambassador@fourthworld.com>
Message-ID: <666EC1E3-5B2A-11D8-A770-000A95665344@easynet.fr>


Le 9 f?vr. 04, ? 18:39, Richard Gaskin a ?crit :

> Stephen Quinn Barncard wrote:
>
>> Why this big negative about using Apple technologies? Quicktime works
>> well, and is free.
> ...
>> All Windoze and Linux users have all benefited from Apple "raising
>> the bar" and should admit it.
>
> Where is QuickTime for Linux?

About streaming : Darwin Streaming Server is available and about 
playing  back movies,  VideoLan is delivred with the same "sample.mov" 
file that comes with QTSS under OSX Server...
>
> -- 
>  Richard Gaskin
>  Fourth World Media Corporation
>  ___________________________________________________________
>  Ambassador at FourthWorld.com       http://www.FourthWorld.com
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>
>
Best, Pierre Sahores

100, rue de Paris
F - 77140 Nemours

psahores at easynet.fr

GSM:   +33 6 03 95 77 70
Pro:   +33 1 41 60 52 68
Dom:   +33 1 64 45 05 33
Fax:   +33 1 64 45 05 33

Inspection acad?mique de Seine-Saint-Denis
Applications et SGBD ACID SQL (WEB et PGI)
Penser et produire "delta de productivit?"


Bien cordialement, Pierre Sahores

100, rue de Paris
F - 77140 Nemours

psahores at easynet.fr

GSM:   +33 6 03 95 77 70
Pro:   +33 1 41 60 52 68
Dom:   +33 1 64 45 05 33
Fax:   +33 1 64 45 05 33

Inspection acad?mique de Seine-Saint-Denis
Applications et SGBD ACID SQL (WEB et PGI)
Penser et produire "delta de productivit?"

From yvescoppe at skynet.be  Mon Feb  9 13:07:12 2004
From: yvescoppe at skynet.be (Yves COPPE)
Date: Mon, 9 Feb 2004 19:07:12 +0100
Subject: Window resizing before open?
In-Reply-To: <a0510030cbc4d6473daa2@[66.52.165.159]>
References: <BC4CFBC2.A0A7%scott@tactilemedia.com>
	<a0510030cbc4d6473daa2@[66.52.165.159]>
Message-ID: <C907C8F2-5B2A-11D8-BFB7-003065E14B04@skynet.be>


Le 9 f?vr. 04, ? 17:23, Rob Cozens a ?crit :

>> You might want to try seeing if you can create a resizing problem 
>> with the
>> IDE suspended.
>

When I have troubles with resizing stack window on Mac OS X, I simply 
"hide" the group <menubar>

it does appear altough I've hidden the mnnubar and the stack size is 
very good...!!!!

Groetjes.

Yves COPPE
yvescoppe at skynet.be

From ian at azurevision.co.uk  Mon Feb  9 13:11:33 2004
From: ian at azurevision.co.uk (Ian Wood)
Date: Mon, 9 Feb 2004 18:11:33 +0000
Subject: REV and multimedia
In-Reply-To: <p06020414bc4d6faf77ec@[192.168.1.100]>
References: <p06020414bc4d6faf77ec@[192.168.1.100]>
Message-ID: <64AE1A00-5B2B-11D8-AB96-0003935A2896@azurevision.co.uk>

Stephen Quinn Barncard wrote:

> Why this big negative about using Apple technologies? Quicktime works 
> well, and is free. All this Applephobia is getting really dumb. Does 
> Sony think they will sell more videocams because they call Firewire 
> iLink, even though Apple created it?

The FireWire name is a registered trademark of Apple, and until 
mid-2002 you had to pay Apple if you wanted to use the name.  You no 
longer have to pay, but you do need a free licence.  This is standard 
tactics for Apple, they make their technology available to others, but 
you usually have to pay for it in some way...  Maybe this is why Sony 
used the name iLink?
http://www.apple.com/pr/library/2002/may/29firewireTA.html

Alex Rice wrote:

> Quicktime is not available for Linux. Quicktime for Windows is a 16MB 
> download.
> For a shareware developer to require users to make a 16MB download 
> could be a problem.

I's actually 11MB, but the principle still applies.  There is a 
shareware program that gets the QT browser plugin working on Linux, but 
ONLY the browser plugin.  And why should Linux users be penalised by 
spending $25 to get half the functionality that Win & Mac users get for 
free.  Until there is a QT for Linux I don't really regard it as truly 
cross-platform, even though it is my main development area.

My two Eurocents,

Ian Wood


From chrism at lumin.us  Mon Feb  9 13:11:14 2004
From: chrism at lumin.us (Christopher Mitchell)
Date: Mon, 9 Feb 2004 12:11:14 -0600
Subject: REV and multimedia
In-Reply-To: <p06020414bc4d6faf77ec@[192.168.1.100]>
References: <p06020414bc4d6faf77ec@[192.168.1.100]>
Message-ID: <596A88F2-5B2B-11D8-9D0D-000393B64EDC@lumin.us>

I can give you a concrete reason why some of my Win only friends are 
edgy about having to install quicktime, and it is for the same reason I 
am edgy about having to install any product from Real media: there is, 
or at least has been in past installers, a tendency for QT to hijack 
media playing, and this is (again, an an older release) even with being 
careful about installation choices.

If you get too many people gunshy of installing your product because it 
either has given them experience of hijacking their media (whether by 
user error or not-quite-okay install script) then they're not going to 
change easily...

getting people to install anything when they have something 
"comparable" that works is like pulling teeth.  i've been trying to 
convince a friend of mine to try iTunes on Windows for several months 
now, but because of the a) quicktime installation required, and b) some 
weird thing that happened no his machine with it on the first time he 
ran it, he's preferring to stick with Winamp.  No amount of convincing 
him that he hasn't given it a fair shot or that QT installs very well 
on Win these days seems to make an effort, and so there is my story...

Yours,
Chris
On Feb 9, 2004, at 11:24 AM, Stephen Quinn Barncard wrote:

> Why this big negative about using Apple technologies? Quicktime works 
> well, and is free. All this Applephobia is getting really dumb. Does 
> Sony think they will sell more videocams because they call Firewire 
> iLink, even though Apple created it?
>
> People should get over the fact that Apple developed almost every new 
> computer technology over the last 15 years and get over it. All the PC 
> companies had plenty of time to develop iPods, Wireless, utilize USB 
> (I know apple didn't invent it but they were the first to embrace it), 
> and they invented a Teleconferencing system that actually worked well 
> (iSight).
>
> All Windoze and Linux users have all benefited from Apple "raising the 
> bar" and should admit it.
>
>
>>
>> As far as multimedia is concerned, Revolution as a native support for 
>> Quicktime, clearly an Apple technology. Windows and Linux users are 
>> not so happy...
>>
>> Claude
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>


From tuviah at runrev.com  Mon Feb  9 13:12:44 2004
From: tuviah at runrev.com (tuviah snyder)
Date: Mon, 9 Feb 2004 13:12:44 -0500
Subject: Transcript is flexible and requires me to make choices.
References: <20040209175015.0EFA99303D6@mail.runrev.com>
Message-ID: <004201c3ef38$5167ccb0$1602a8c0@USER>

>
> On Feb 9, 2004, at 4:16 AM, Frank Leahy wrote:
>
> Richard wrote:
>>> What is the argument against the xTalk messaging model?
>
> I'll keep repeating it: the argument is you don't know at until runtime
> if the message goes where you think it will go. One way to state it is
> "throwing a message out for some object to catch, hopefully".
Well in some frameworks/languages this is a feature..but it would greatly
improve engine speed to be able to resolve which object gets the message and
prepare the parameters at compile time for certain user defined
functions/handlers.enabling Rev to skip the process of looking up the
handler/function in a lookup table each time it is called

So I'm for any syntax which would enable me to precompile some functions
(such as math functions, ect) without losing the flexibility in cases where
I may want to dynamically intercept messages like mousemove in a backscript.

Tuviah


From preid at reidit.demon.co.uk  Mon Feb  9 13:15:09 2004
From: preid at reidit.demon.co.uk (Peter Reid)
Date: Mon, 9 Feb 2004 18:15:09 +0000
Subject: OS X Standalone Prog Folder Problem?
Message-ID: <p06020400bc4d7dad53c7@[192.168.181.1]>

I'm using Rev 2.1.2 under Mac OS X 10.3.2 to build an app.  If I run 
the app inside the development environment, or as a standalone 
Classic app, then it works fine.  However, if I run the OS X app 
built at the same time, then it fails to locate the support folder 
and files in the same folder as the app.

Any suggestions please, this was meant to be a "quick" rehosting as 
part of a general upgrade from Mac OS 9 to Mac OS X, but currently my 
client will have to run the app in Classic mode as the OS X version 
doesn't work!

Thanks
-- 
Peter Reid
Reid-IT Limited, Loughborough, Leics., UK
Tel: +44 (0)1509 268843 Fax: +44 (0)8700 527576
E-mail: preid at reidit.co.uk
         preid at reidit.demon.co.uk
         peter.reidit at ntlworld.com
Web: http://www.reidit.co.uk
      http://www.reidit.demon.co.uk

From rcozens at pon.net  Mon Feb  9 12:19:30 2004
From: rcozens at pon.net (Rob Cozens)
Date: Mon, 9 Feb 2004 10:19:30 -0700
Subject: mission critical apps; was Re: cross platform ide
In-Reply-To: <A8B95A8D-5B28-11D8-9773-000393C4760A@mindlube.com>
References: <BC4D051A.3CFEB%ambassador@fourthworld.com>
 <A8B95A8D-5B28-11D8-9773-000393C4760A@mindlube.com>
Message-ID: <a0510030fbc4d6cd9d3cc@[66.52.165.159]>

>With xtalk you discover bugs at runtime. period.

That is certainly not true of script syntax errors... and when you do 
encounter them you can open the script editor, correct the problem, 
and go right on with your runtime testing [unless applying the script 
changes the value of declared local variables].

>By it's very nature, runrev presents some unique challenges for 
>producing reliable, quality code.

That has just not been my general experience, Alex.  And 
specifically, from a post to the rev_ipc group:

Durability 15 Jan 04:>>

As I write this, my OS X test SDB client has completed 24 hours of
auto testing without interruption since I restarted it after turning
off sleep mode on the iMac.  It has issued about 24,000 commands to
the server since restarting.

My OS 9 test SDB client has been running for more than 48 hours, and
has issued over 53,000 commands to the same server since restarting.

The server has been running for over 72 hours while I debugged the
auto test logic and restarted both clients...the iMac because of
sleep mode and the PB after my wife closed the over in the middle of
the night of my first 24 hour test.
<<

To all of those who find basic X-Talk syntax and concepts counterintuitive:

1.  Why are you searching for a new platform?

2.  What draws you to Revolution?

3.  Why would you expect to leave behind the part of a programming 
environment you didn't like and have what you did like shoe-horned 
into a different environment?

4.  How many programming environment transitions have you been 
through previously?  When all I knew was FORTRAN AND I knew I could 
program anything my employer wanted in FORTRAN, I saw no need for any 
other language.  With each subsequent change in programming 
environment I learned the relative strengths and weaknesses of each.

But I suggest that some of the issues being raised here cut to the 
very core foundation of X-Talks, and if you can't accept things the 
way they are, you will be continually frustrated with your experience 
with Revolution.
-- 

Rob Cozens
CCW, Serendipity Software Company
http://www.oenolog.net/who.htm

"And I, which was two fooles, do so grow three;
Who are a little wise, the best fooles bee."

from "The Triple Foole" by John Donne (1572-1631)

From marty at vertex.ucls.uchicago.edu  Mon Feb  9 13:36:04 2004
From: marty at vertex.ucls.uchicago.edu (Marty Billingsley)
Date: Mon, 9 Feb 2004 12:36:04 -0600 (CST)
Subject: Andy's comments and positioning...
In-Reply-To: <20040209001606.0EE1F930114@mail.runrev.com>
References: <20040209001606.0EE1F930114@mail.runrev.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.4.58.0402091229170.29194@vertex.ucls.uchicago.edu>

<sorry, lost track of who said what>
> >> x = y + z (instead of put y + z into x)
> >> x += 1 (instead of add 1 to x)
> >> x.myProperty = foo (instead of set myProperty of x to foo)
> >>
> >> Not supporting these standard statements make the language look a bit
> >> "beginner-ish".
> >
> > I disagree.  This is archaic C syntax.  The '=' runs foul to math
> > syntax.  C has been the ball and chain of programming language
> > development and we should not willingly adopt its syntax.
>
>
> x = y + z has nothing to do with C, it's standard mathematics notation.
> Every language that I've ever used, C, C++, Java, Eiffel, Perl, VB,
> ASP, PHP, Lingo -- with the singular exception of xTalk -- uses x = y +
> z instead of "put".

Pascal, which was designed as a teaching language, makes the
distinction between = and := the former being the comparison
operator and the latter being the assignment operator.  It was
a very useful distinction when teaching beginners to think about
assigning values to variables.  Students are already used to
thinking of = in math terms as the comparison operator (i.e.,
x = 4 + 3 means that x *equals* 7, not that x *becomes* 7 after
that statement occurs).

xTalk's "put" command is equally useful, as it helps students
to visualize variables as containers for data.

So, from a teaching standpoint, *don't* implement the C terminology;
it's a nightmare that should go away.

  - marty

--
Marty Billingsley (marty at ucls.uchicago.edu)
The University of Chicago Laboratory Schools

    "We are our choices...."
                   - Sartre

From rcozens at pon.net  Mon Feb  9 12:34:00 2004
From: rcozens at pon.net (Rob Cozens)
Date: Mon, 9 Feb 2004 10:34:00 -0700
Subject: Would you have written it in time? was Re: mission critical
 apps
In-Reply-To: <9F303652-5B29-11D8-9773-000393C4760A@mindlube.com>
References: <BC4C8255.3CF62%ambassador@fourthworld.com>
 <FE17B32F-5ADF-11D8-AB96-0003935A2896@azurevision.co.uk>
 <ED672C7E-5B20-11D8-9773-000393C4760A@mindlube.com>
 <a0510030dbc4d64a8e715@[66.52.165.159]>
 <9F303652-5B29-11D8-9773-000393C4760A@mindlube.com>
Message-ID: <a05100313bc4d739969b8@[66.52.165.159]>

>Naturally you are comfortable with it and it is not an issue for you.

But you should take some comfort in this too, Alex.

Until I found what awakened bugs hiding in the Rev Dev environment, 
my experience was that Revolution crashed with some regularity;

but I never worried because my Revolution standalones were quite stable.

The Development environment is new; but your usesr never see it. 
Your standalone logic is run by the engine that has supported 
MetaCard since its inception.
-- 

Rob Cozens
CCW, Serendipity Software Company
http://www.oenolog.net/who.htm

"And I, which was two fooles, do so grow three;
Who are a little wise, the best fooles bee."

from "The Triple Foole" by John Donne (1572-1631)

From alex at mindlube.com  Mon Feb  9 13:41:13 2004
From: alex at mindlube.com (Alex Rice)
Date: Mon, 9 Feb 2004 11:41:13 -0700
Subject: mission critical apps; was Re: cross platform ide
In-Reply-To: <a0510030fbc4d6cd9d3cc@[66.52.165.159]>
References: <BC4D051A.3CFEB%ambassador@fourthworld.com>
	<A8B95A8D-5B28-11D8-9773-000393C4760A@mindlube.com>
	<a0510030fbc4d6cd9d3cc@[66.52.165.159]>
Message-ID: <8945BE72-5B2F-11D8-9773-000393C4760A@mindlube.com>


On Feb 9, 2004, at 10:19 AM, Rob Cozens wrote:

> That is certainly not true of script syntax errors... and when you do 
> encounter them you can open the script editor, correct the problem, 
> and go right on with your runtime testing [unless applying the script 
> changes the value of declared local variables].

I stand corrected. So some bugs are found when the script is edited. 
Everything else is found at runtime.

>
> That has just not been my general experience, Alex.

Did I say it *cannot be done*? No. I said there are unique challenges. 
In a previous post you acknowledged as much:

> Upon reflection, I will acknowledge that message path issues were one 
> of the most difficult parts of my transition from PL/1, C, & Pascal to 
> HyperTalk.



>   And specifically, from a post to the rev_ipc group:
> As I write this, my OS X test SDB client has completed 24 hours of
> auto testing without interruption since I restarted it after turning
> off sleep mode on the iMac.  It has issued about 24,000 commands to
> the server since restarting.

Congratulations. I never claimed it was impossible to produce reliable 
apps with runrev. Just challenging.

But I can get pedantic too. The messaging bug I was remembering that 
Dar opened was this:

bug # 102: """After message ID of 2147483647 is assigned, the next 
message ID is -2147483648.
  This in itself is not a problem; a large cycle in the message ID is 
OK.  Both
pendingMessages and the result show a negative number. The problem is 
that that messages with a negative message ID cannot be canceled."""

>
> But I suggest that some of the issues being raised here cut to the 
> very core foundation of X-Talks, and if you can't accept things the 
> way they are, you will be continually frustrated with your experience 
> with Revolution.

I sense you feel threatened by this thread because SDB and libIPC are 
geared towards a more business like, maybe mission-critical 
applications? For all I know SDB and libIPC are the most solid, 
bulletproof apps ever engineered in an xtalk language. I wish you all 
the best with SDB and libIPC.

--
Alex Rice | Mindlube Software | http://mindlube.com


From alex at mindlube.com  Mon Feb  9 13:43:43 2004
From: alex at mindlube.com (Alex Rice)
Date: Mon, 9 Feb 2004 11:43:43 -0700
Subject: Would you have written it in time? was Re: mission critical apps
In-Reply-To: <a05100313bc4d739969b8@[66.52.165.159]>
References: <BC4C8255.3CF62%ambassador@fourthworld.com>
	<FE17B32F-5ADF-11D8-AB96-0003935A2896@azurevision.co.uk>
	<ED672C7E-5B20-11D8-9773-000393C4760A@mindlube.com>
	<a0510030dbc4d64a8e715@[66.52.165.159]>
	<9F303652-5B29-11D8-9773-000393C4760A@mindlube.com>
	<a05100313bc4d739969b8@[66.52.165.159]>
Message-ID: <E2E41823-5B2F-11D8-9773-000393C4760A@mindlube.com>


On Feb 9, 2004, at 10:34 AM, Rob Cozens wrote:
> The Development environment is new; but your usesr never see it. Your 
> standalone logic is run by the engine that has supported MetaCard 
> since its inception.

I know- but for someone who didn't cut their teeth with metacard, and 
all they have experienced is the runrev IDE, then it's blind faith that 
the engine is as bulletproof as it's reputed to be.

--
Alex Rice | Mindlube Software | http://mindlube.com


From rcozens at pon.net  Mon Feb  9 12:44:24 2004
From: rcozens at pon.net (Rob Cozens)
Date: Mon, 9 Feb 2004 10:44:24 -0700
Subject: OS X Standalone Prog Folder Problem?
In-Reply-To: <p06020400bc4d7dad53c7@[192.168.181.1]>
References: <p06020400bc4d7dad53c7@[192.168.181.1]>
Message-ID: <a05100314bc4d75e0f2bb@[66.52.165.159]>

>I'm using Rev 2.1.2 under Mac OS X 10.3.2 to build an app.  If I run 
>the app inside the development environment, or as a standalone 
>Classic app, then it works fine.  However, if I run the OS X app 
>built at the same time, then it fails to locate the support folder 
>and files in the same folder as the app.

Hi Peter,

Welcome to the wonderful world of Mac OS X application bundles.

Control click on your OS X stabdalone + select "Package Contents" 
reveals a folder, "Contents"

Inside "Contents" are:
	Info.plist
	pbdevelopment.plist
	Pkginfo
	A folder, "Resources", containing--
		Revolution.rsrc
		RevolutionDoc.icns
		Revolution.icons
	A folder, "Mac OS", containing--
		Revolution [your standalone]

So if your standalone on other platforms expects to find the support 
folder in the same folder in which the standalone resides, your 
folder must be in the Mac OS folder on OS X.

I deal with this by using a generalized search handler that looks for 
support folders in both locations...among others.
-- 

Rob Cozens
CCW, Serendipity Software Company
http://www.oenolog.net/who.htm

"And I, which was two fooles, do so grow three;
Who are a little wise, the best fooles bee."

from "The Triple Foole" by John Donne (1572-1631)

From nnoydb at excite.com  Mon Feb  9 13:49:07 2004
From: nnoydb at excite.com (nnoydb at excite.com)
Date: Mon,  9 Feb 2004 13:49:07 -0500 (EST)
Subject: XML Documentation
Message-ID: <20040209184907.A5DDC299DA@xprdmailfe23.nwk.excite.com>



I have been looking at the Runtime Revolution XML API it seems similar to expat and several others I have used.  However, I have failed to locate any examples or tutorials are there any? If so where might I find them?

K

_______________________________________________
Join Excite! - http://www.excite.com
The most personalized portal on the Web!

From alex at mindlube.com  Mon Feb  9 13:51:39 2004
From: alex at mindlube.com (Alex Rice)
Date: Mon, 9 Feb 2004 11:51:39 -0700
Subject: Rev Review
In-Reply-To: <BC46A523.3CA77%ambassador@fourthworld.com>
References: <BC46A523.3CA77%ambassador@fourthworld.com>
Message-ID: <FE90EED2-5B30-11D8-9773-000393C4760A@mindlube.com>


On Feb 4, 2004, at 2:33 PM, Richard Gaskin wrote:

> I like your comments on ways to improve the RunRev Web site and would
> encourage you to forward them to Lorin Rivers at <lorin at runrev.com> as 
> I'm
> sure that refining Web site is an ongoing interest.

Lorin Rivers was VP of Marketing for REAL Software (REALbasic)
Or is this a different Lorin Rivers?


--
Alex Rice | Mindlube Software | http://mindlube.com


From alex at mindlube.com  Mon Feb  9 13:55:31 2004
From: alex at mindlube.com (Alex Rice)
Date: Mon, 9 Feb 2004 11:55:31 -0700
Subject: Transcript is flexible and requires me to make choices.
In-Reply-To: <004201c3ef38$5167ccb0$1602a8c0@USER>
References: <20040209175015.0EFA99303D6@mail.runrev.com>
	<004201c3ef38$5167ccb0$1602a8c0@USER>
Message-ID: <89264A1F-5B31-11D8-9773-000393C4760A@mindlube.com>


On Feb 9, 2004, at 11:12 AM, tuviah snyder wrote:
> Well in some frameworks/languages this is a feature..but it would 
> greatly
> improve engine speed to be able to resolve which object gets the 
> message and
> prepare the parameters at compile time for certain user defined
> functions/handlers.enabling Rev to skip the process of looking up the
> handler/function in a lookup table each time it is called
>
> So I'm for any syntax which would enable me to precompile some 
> functions
> (such as math functions, ect) without losing the flexibility in cases 
> where
> I may want to dynamically intercept messages like mousemove in a 
> backscript.

Kinda like in C++ where the virtual keyword changes how the 
functions-object lookups are done at runtime? (totally from memory; I 
never was a good C++ programmer)

--
Alex Rice | Mindlube Software | http://mindlube.com


From dsc at swcp.com  Mon Feb  9 13:55:50 2004
From: dsc at swcp.com (Dar Scott)
Date: Mon, 9 Feb 2004 11:55:50 -0700
Subject: Is Transcript's English orientation a plus or minus? 
In-Reply-To: <8FE3AB1C-5AEB-11D8-B678-000A9580FCCE@backtalk.com>
Message-ID: <942C1638-5B31-11D8-A51E-000A9567A3E6@swcp.com>


On Monday, February 9, 2004, at 03:34 AM, Frank Leahy wrote:

> I think you're confusing the language (xTalk), with the development 
> and runtime environment (call it HyperCard++ for the moment).  
> HyperCard++ is a Rapid Application Development environment that uses 
> the concepts of stacks, cards and controls to make it relatively easy 
> to build complex multi-window applications.  xTalk, the language that 
> is used to control this RAD, is a HyperTalk clone, but could 
> (theoretically) be replaced with any number of other languages, e.g. 
> C, JavaScript, VB, PHP, etc.

This is true.  I'd still be here if the language was graphical like 
that in LabView or was simple and powerful like Scheme.

Whatever language used should fit in and respect the environment of 
stacks and cards and controls and such.  There should be a synergy of 
some sort.

I often found in scripting that I wanted to switch to math notation 
(such as sigma), to embed tables to behave as functions and predicates, 
and to include unicode characters in line.

I like the naive view of values in Transcript.  I realize that it has 
some rough edges, but to the extent that it can keep concepts simple, 
that is good.

I suspect that as Transcript grows, it need not copy C or C++ or even 
Java, but can grow with rich abstractions and leave those in the dust.

Dar Scott



From nnoydb at excite.com  Mon Feb  9 13:58:05 2004
From: nnoydb at excite.com (nnoydb at excite.com)
Date: Mon,  9 Feb 2004 13:58:05 -0500 (EST)
Subject: mission critical apps; was Re: cross platform ide
Message-ID: <20040209185805.5CC23299E4@xprdmailfe23.nwk.excite.com>



Where might I locate the SDB/libIPC (to edcuate myself)?

K






 --- On Mon 02/09, Alex Rice < alex at mindlube.com > wrote:
From: Alex Rice [mailto: alex at mindlube.com]
To: use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
Date: Mon, 9 Feb 2004 11:41:13 -0700
Subject: Re: mission critical apps; was Re: cross platform ide

<br>On Feb 9, 2004, at 10:19 AM, Rob Cozens wrote:<br><br>> That is certainly not true of script syntax errors... and when you do <br>> encounter them you can open the script editor, correct the problem, <br>> and go right on with your runtime testing [unless applying the script <br>> changes the value of declared local variables].<br><br>I stand corrected. So some bugs are found when the script is edited. <br>Everything else is found at runtime.<br><br>><br>> That has just not been my general experience, Alex.<br><br>Did I say it *cannot be done*? No. I said there are unique challenges. <br>In a previous post you acknowledged as much:<br><br>> Upon reflection, I will acknowledge that message path issues were one <br>> of the most difficult parts of my transition from PL/1, C, & Pascal to <br>> HyperTalk.<br><br><br><br>>   And specifically, from a post to the rev_ipc group:<br>> As I write this, my OS X test SDB client has completed 24 hours of<br>> auto testing without interruption since I restarted it after turning<br>> off sleep mode on the iMac.  It has issued about 24,000 commands to<br>> the server since restarting.<br><br>Congratulations. I never claimed it was impossible to produce reliable <br>apps with runrev. Just challenging.<br><br>But I can get pedantic too. The messaging bug I was remembering that <br>Dar opened was this:<br><br>bug # 102: """After message ID of 2147483647 is assigned, the next <br>message ID is -2147483648.<br>  This in itself is not a problem; a large cycle in the message ID is <br>OK.  Both<br>pendingMessages and the result show a negative number. The problem is <br>that that messages with a negative message ID cannot be canceled."""<br><br>><br>> But I suggest that some of the issues being raised here cut to the <br>> very core foundation of X-Talks, and if you can't accept things the <br>> way they are, you will be continually frustrated with your experience <br>> with Revolution.<br><br>I sense you feel threatened by this thread because SDB and libIPC are <br>geared towards a more business like, maybe mission-critical <br>applications? For all I know SDB and libIPC are the most solid, <br>bulletproof apps ever engineered in an xtalk language. I wish you all <br>the best with SDB and libIPC.<br><br>--<br>Alex Rice | Mindlube Software | http://mindlube.com<br><br>_______________________________________________<br>use-revolution mailing list<br>use-revolution at lists.runrev.com<br>http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution<br>

_______________________________________________
Join Excite! - http://www.excite.com
The most personalized portal on the Web!

From dsc at swcp.com  Mon Feb  9 14:00:56 2004
From: dsc at swcp.com (Dar Scott)
Date: Mon, 9 Feb 2004 12:00:56 -0700
Subject: The Bitstream VERA font, the first truely crossplatformsolution
In-Reply-To: <a06020417bc4d3986f0ad@[141.89.100.235]>
Message-ID: <4AB2BF0C-5B32-11D8-A51E-000A9567A3E6@swcp.com>


On Monday, February 9, 2004, at 06:24 AM, Robert Brenstein wrote:

> This will be possible only when text attributes will become truly 
> inherited. I mean individually inherited. As it is now, they are 
> object/chunk attributes are now stored in sets (bundles of font name, 
> size, and style). This should be an enhancement request but I don't 
> recall seeing it in bugzilla.

It has come up in the related issue a change in one changing the other. 
  I don't remember if this is entered as an enhancement.  I'm all for 
simple, clean and rich.  Independence contributes to richness.

Dar Scott


From rcozens at pon.net  Mon Feb  9 13:06:34 2004
From: rcozens at pon.net (Rob Cozens)
Date: Mon, 9 Feb 2004 11:06:34 -0700
Subject: mission critical apps; was Re: cross platform ide
In-Reply-To: <8945BE72-5B2F-11D8-9773-000393C4760A@mindlube.com>
References: <BC4D051A.3CFEB%ambassador@fourthworld.com>
 <A8B95A8D-5B28-11D8-9773-000393C4760A@mindlube.com>
 <a0510030fbc4d6cd9d3cc@[66.52.165.159]>
 <8945BE72-5B2F-11D8-9773-000393C4760A@mindlube.com>
Message-ID: <a05100315bc4d7862898e@[66.52.165.159]>

>I sense you feel threatened by this thread because SDB and libIPC 
>are geared towards a more business like, maybe mission-critical 
>applications?

Sorry if it comes off looking that way, Alex.  As IS manager for 
several corporate & governmental organizations, I did my home work 
and provided senior management with persuasive arguments for my 
choice of programming platforms.  I am totally comfortable with my 
selection of Revolution as my platform of choice for the kinds of 
software I produce, and am willing to discuss comparisons 
point-by-point to the extent that my knowledge allows.

Frankly, there's a part of me that feels, the fewer developers that 
appreciate Revolution, the fewer serious competitors I'll have.  For 
a decade & a half I made a living supporting FlexWare accounting 
installations.  Ever hear of FlexWare?  Neither had most of the folks 
who bought it until they were shown what it could do for them. 
Virtually none of them understood the internals of FlexWare or cared 
(none ever asked) if the FlexWare db was relational or SQL 
compatible.  (FYI we're dealing here with mom & pop businesses to 
corporations with revenues < $ 1 billion to governmental agencies 
like Port of Vancouver USA & the Canadian Public Health Association.)

But I am saying:

1.  If you have reliability concerns, check with the MetaCard community

2.  If you cannot become comfortable with message passing, you will 
always be uncomfortable with any flavor of X-Talk.
-- 

Rob Cozens
CCW, Serendipity Software Company
http://www.oenolog.net/who.htm

"And I, which was two fooles, do so grow three;
Who are a little wise, the best fooles bee."

from "The Triple Foole" by John Donne (1572-1631)

From ambassador at fourthworld.com  Mon Feb  9 14:07:02 2004
From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin)
Date: Mon, 09 Feb 2004 11:07:02 -0800
Subject: REV and multimedia
In-Reply-To: <596A88F2-5B2B-11D8-9D0D-000393B64EDC@lumin.us>
Message-ID: <BC4D1A55.3D01F%ambassador@fourthworld.com>

Christopher Mitchell wrote:

> I can give you a concrete reason why some of my Win only friends are
> edgy about having to install quicktime, and it is for the same reason I
> am edgy about having to install any product from Real media: there is,
> or at least has been in past installers, a tendency for QT to hijack
> media playing, and this is (again, an an older release) even with being
> careful about installation choices.
> 
> If you get too many people gunshy of installing your product because it
> either has given them experience of hijacking their media (whether by
> user error or not-quite-okay install script) then they're not going to
> change easily...

Agreed on the preception:  QuickTime is very polite about file extensions,
but Real is horribly rude and has established unfortunate expectations that
bleed over to other products.

Apple could do a better job of explaining the distinctions between the
QuickTime and Real Player experiences.

-- 
 Richard Gaskin 
 Fourth World Media Corporation
 ___________________________________________________________
 Ambassador at FourthWorld.com       http://www.FourthWorld.com


From dsc at swcp.com  Mon Feb  9 14:12:01 2004
From: dsc at swcp.com (Dar Scott)
Date: Mon, 9 Feb 2004 12:12:01 -0700
Subject: Transcript is flexible and requires me to make choices.
In-Reply-To: <004201c3ef38$5167ccb0$1602a8c0@USER>
Message-ID: <D6AF90C9-5B33-11D8-A51E-000A9567A3E6@swcp.com>


On Monday, February 9, 2004, at 11:12 AM, tuviah snyder wrote:

> So I'm for any syntax which would enable me to precompile some 
> functions
> (such as math functions, ect) without losing the flexibility in cases 
> where
> I may want to dynamically intercept messages like mousemove in a 
> backscript.

Perhaps a tiny first step would be to optimize function binding within 
the same script.

This might be triggered by a keyword at the function definition.

It also might be done with notation at the call.  This would clutter 
the call but has the advantage in that it would create a compile error 
if the function is not in the script.  Maybe all calls in braces must 
be resolved as built-in or script local.

Inline might be on this path.

If it wasn't for front scripts this could be a transparent 
optimization.  Or am I not understanding front scripts right?

Dar Scott


From rcozens at pon.net  Mon Feb  9 13:13:10 2004
From: rcozens at pon.net (Rob Cozens)
Date: Mon, 9 Feb 2004 11:13:10 -0700
Subject: mission critical apps; was Re: cross platform ide
In-Reply-To: <20040209185805.5CC23299E4@xprdmailfe23.nwk.excite.com>
References: <20040209185805.5CC23299E4@xprdmailfe23.nwk.excite.com>
Message-ID: <a05100316bc4d7daac768@[66.52.165.159]>

>Where might I locate the SDB/libIPC (to edcuate myself)?

<http://www.oenolog.net/ftp/serendipity_downloader.htm>

Enjoy!
-- 

Rob Cozens
CCW, Serendipity Software Company
http://www.oenolog.net/who.htm

"And I, which was two fooles, do so grow three;
Who are a little wise, the best fooles bee."

from "The Triple Foole" by John Donne (1572-1631)

From ambassador at fourthworld.com  Mon Feb  9 14:13:38 2004
From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin)
Date: Mon, 09 Feb 2004 11:13:38 -0800
Subject: Rev Review
In-Reply-To: <FE90EED2-5B30-11D8-9773-000393C4760A@mindlube.com>
Message-ID: <BC4D1BE1.3D027%ambassador@fourthworld.com>

Alex Rice wrote:

> On Feb 4, 2004, at 2:33 PM, Richard Gaskin wrote:
> 
>> I like your comments on ways to improve the RunRev Web site and would
>> encourage you to forward them to Lorin Rivers at <lorin at runrev.com> as
>> I'm
>> sure that refining Web site is an ongoing interest.
> 
> Lorin Rivers was VP of Marketing for REAL Software (REALbasic)
> Or is this a different Lorin Rivers?

I saw reference to his address earlier on this list in relation to
marketing.  I haven't seen him on the RB list for quite some time.

-- 
 Richard Gaskin 
 Fourth World Media Corporation
 ___________________________________________________________
 Ambassador at FourthWorld.com       http://www.FourthWorld.com


From alex at mindlube.com  Mon Feb  9 14:19:45 2004
From: alex at mindlube.com (Alex Rice)
Date: Mon, 9 Feb 2004 12:19:45 -0700
Subject: Would you have written it in time? was Re: mission critical apps
In-Reply-To: <E2E41823-5B2F-11D8-9773-000393C4760A@mindlube.com>
References: <BC4C8255.3CF62%ambassador@fourthworld.com>
	<FE17B32F-5ADF-11D8-AB96-0003935A2896@azurevision.co.uk>
	<ED672C7E-5B20-11D8-9773-000393C4760A@mindlube.com>
	<a0510030dbc4d64a8e715@[66.52.165.159]>
	<9F303652-5B29-11D8-9773-000393C4760A@mindlube.com>
	<a05100313bc4d739969b8@[66.52.165.159]>
	<E2E41823-5B2F-11D8-9773-000393C4760A@mindlube.com>
Message-ID: <EB60D8C6-5B34-11D8-9773-000393C4760A@mindlube.com>


On Feb 9, 2004, at 11:43 AM, Alex Rice wrote:
> I know- but for someone who didn't cut their teeth with metacard, and 
> all they have experienced is the runrev IDE, then it's blind faith 
> that the engine is as bulletproof as it's reputed to be.

Sorry "cut their teeth" is probably a poor expression to use on this 
list. "cut your teeth" means something like: "to gain experience by 
using"

--
Alex Rice | Mindlube Software | http://mindlube.com


From pixelbird at interisland.net  Mon Feb  9 14:19:59 2004
From: pixelbird at interisland.net (Ken Norris)
Date: Mon, 09 Feb 2004 11:19:59 -0800
Subject: REV and multimedia
In-Reply-To: <20040209175014.D582D9303D5@mail.runrev.com>
Message-ID: <BC4D1D5F.4DFE%pixelbird@interisland.net>

Hi Alex,

> Date: Mon, 9 Feb 2004 10:35:14 -0700
> From: Alex Rice <alex at mindlube.com>
> Subject: Re: REV and multimedia
> 
> 
> On Feb 9, 2004, at 10:24 AM, Stephen Quinn Barncard wrote:
> 
>> Why this big negative about using Apple technologies? Quicktime works
>> well, and is free.
> 
> Quicktime is not available for Linux. Quicktime for Windows is a 16MB
> download.
> For a shareware developer to require users to make a 16MB download
> could be a problem.
----------
What's the alternative for scripting movies in Rev?

Ken N.


From alex at mindlube.com  Mon Feb  9 14:22:07 2004
From: alex at mindlube.com (Alex Rice)
Date: Mon, 9 Feb 2004 12:22:07 -0700
Subject: mission critical apps; was Re: cross platform ide
In-Reply-To: <a05100315bc4d7862898e@[66.52.165.159]>
References: <BC4D051A.3CFEB%ambassador@fourthworld.com>
	<A8B95A8D-5B28-11D8-9773-000393C4760A@mindlube.com>
	<a0510030fbc4d6cd9d3cc@[66.52.165.159]>
	<8945BE72-5B2F-11D8-9773-000393C4760A@mindlube.com>
	<a05100315bc4d7862898e@[66.52.165.159]>
Message-ID: <3FEB8588-5B35-11D8-9773-000393C4760A@mindlube.com>


On Feb 9, 2004, at 11:06 AM, Rob Cozens wrote:

>
> 1.  If you have reliability concerns, check with the MetaCard community
>
> 2.  If you cannot become comfortable with message passing, you will 
> always be uncomfortable with any flavor of X-Talk.

Sounds like good advice

Thanks,

--
Alex Rice | Mindlube Software | http://mindlube.com


From ambassador at fourthworld.com  Mon Feb  9 14:25:33 2004
From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin)
Date: Mon, 09 Feb 2004 11:25:33 -0800
Subject: Would you have written it in time? was Re: mission critical
	apps
In-Reply-To: <a0510030dbc4d64a8e715@[66.52.165.159]>
Message-ID: <BC4D1EAD.3D035%ambassador@fourthworld.com>

Rob Cozens wrote:

> And, by the way, reliability is not an issue from my perspective.
> How long has the underlying MetaCard engine been on the market?

Rev's VM has been field-tested for more than 13 years.

-- 
 Richard Gaskin 
 Fourth World Media Corporation
 ___________________________________________________________
 Ambassador at FourthWorld.com       http://www.FourthWorld.com


From rcozens at pon.net  Mon Feb  9 13:40:39 2004
From: rcozens at pon.net (Rob Cozens)
Date: Mon, 9 Feb 2004 11:40:39 -0700
Subject: mission critical apps; was Re: cross platform ide
Message-ID: <a05100300bc4d7fec4f1c@[66.52.165.159]>

>I sense you feel threatened by this thread because SDB and libIPC 
>are geared towards a more business like, maybe mission-critical 
>applications?

Thank you, Alex, for the excuse for a little PR.

1. SDB & libIPC are free and open source

2. My concern is that they do the job for my applications, as I make 
no money from their acceptance by others

3. SDB is offered to others so I have a greater base of developer & 
client site experience to draw from for a tool that is critical to my 
applications.

4. SDB is positioned as a simple, generalized, native Transcript data 
storage & retrieval engine...it's utility begins at the low and can 
be extended to I-don't-know-what...my largest test database to date 
is 43 MB (43,043 records).

5. It is available for any Revolution application that needs to store 
& retrieve data by key, mission critical or not.

SDB is part of the Serendipity Library bundle:

  <http://www.oenolog.net/ftp/serendipity_downloader.htm>

Enjoy!

Rob Cozens
CCW, Serendipity Software Company
http://www.oenolog.net/who.htm

"And I, which was two fooles, do so grow three;
Who are a little wise, the best fooles bee."

from "The Triple Foole" by John Donne (1572-1631)

From mato.kola at wanblizaptan.com  Mon Feb  9 14:58:41 2004
From: mato.kola at wanblizaptan.com (Jerry Daniels)
Date: Mon, 9 Feb 2004 13:58:41 -0600
Subject: Rev Review
In-Reply-To: <BC4D1BE1.3D027%ambassador@fourthworld.com>
References: <BC4D1BE1.3D027%ambassador@fourthworld.com>
Message-ID: <5BB47A54-5B3A-11D8-A901-000A95B300EC@wanblizaptan.com>

It's the same Lorin Rivers. He's no longer with REALbasic, obviously.

-Jerry

On Feb 9, 2004, at 1:13 PM, Richard Gaskin wrote:

> Alex Rice wrote:
>
>> On Feb 4, 2004, at 2:33 PM, Richard Gaskin wrote:
>>
>>> I like your comments on ways to improve the RunRev Web site and would
>>> encourage you to forward them to Lorin Rivers at <lorin at runrev.com> 
>>> as
>>> I'm
>>> sure that refining Web site is an ongoing interest.
>>
>> Lorin Rivers was VP of Marketing for REAL Software (REALbasic)
>> Or is this a different Lorin Rivers?
>
> I saw reference to his address earlier on this list in relation to
> marketing.  I haven't seen him on the RB list for quite some time.
>
> -- 
>  Richard Gaskin
>  Fourth World Media Corporation
>  ___________________________________________________________
>  Ambassador at FourthWorld.com       http://www.FourthWorld.com
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>


From nnoydb at excite.com  Mon Feb  9 15:18:57 2004
From: nnoydb at excite.com (nnoydb at excite.com)
Date: Mon,  9 Feb 2004 15:18:57 -0500 (EST)
Subject: Setting a element of a array equal to a array?
Message-ID: <20040209201857.C907E299A8@xprdmailfe23.nwk.excite.com>





Simple syntax/support question I would like to "put" a array into the element of another array then access it.  How would this be done?

put myArray into otherArray[ARRAY_KEY]

If so can t be accessed via 

put otherArray[ARRAY_KEY][0] into myVariable?

K


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From alex at mindlube.com  Mon Feb  9 15:25:11 2004
From: alex at mindlube.com (Alex Rice)
Date: Mon, 9 Feb 2004 13:25:11 -0700
Subject: REV and multimedia
In-Reply-To: <BC4D1D5F.4DFE%pixelbird@interisland.net>
References: <BC4D1D5F.4DFE%pixelbird@interisland.net>
Message-ID: <0F9D3DD7-5B3E-11D8-9773-000393C4760A@mindlube.com>


On Feb 9, 2004, at 12:19 PM, Ken Norris wrote:

> What's the alternative for scripting movies in Rev?

I think AVI is the other movie format that Rev supports, aside from 
Quicktime. And animated GIF of course.

How about PNG animations (MNG)? <http://www.libpng.org/pub/mng/>


--
Alex Rice | Mindlube Software | http://mindlube.com


From lists at mangomultimedia.com  Mon Feb  9 15:27:08 2004
From: lists at mangomultimedia.com (Trevor DeVore)
Date: Mon, 9 Feb 2004 13:27:08 -0700
Subject: XML Documentation
In-Reply-To: <20040209184907.A5DDC299DA@xprdmailfe23.nwk.excite.com>
References: <20040209184907.A5DDC299DA@xprdmailfe23.nwk.excite.com>
Message-ID: <5591F4B0-5B3E-11D8-98DD-000A956C462A@mangomultimedia.com>

On Feb 9, 2004, at 11:49 AM, "" <nnoydb at excite.com> wrote:
>
> I have been looking at the Runtime Revolution XML API it seems similar 
> to expat and several others I have used.  However, I have failed to 
> locate any examples or tutorials are there any? If so where might I 
> find them?

In the Revolution application folder there is a folder called "Sample 
Stacks".  Check out the sample xml folder.



-- 
Trevor DeVore
Blue Mango Multimedia
trevor at mangomultimedia.com


From lists at mangomultimedia.com  Mon Feb  9 15:31:35 2004
From: lists at mangomultimedia.com (Trevor DeVore)
Date: Mon, 9 Feb 2004 13:31:35 -0700
Subject: Setting a element of a array equal to a array?
In-Reply-To: <20040209201857.C907E299A8@xprdmailfe23.nwk.excite.com>
References: <20040209201857.C907E299A8@xprdmailfe23.nwk.excite.com>
Message-ID: <F4A8AA1D-5B3E-11D8-98DD-000A956C462A@mangomultimedia.com>

On Feb 9, 2004, at 1:18 PM, "" <nnoydb at excite.com> wrote:
>
> Simple syntax/support question I would like to "put" a array into the 
> element of another array then access it.  How would this be done?
>
> put myArray into otherArray[ARRAY_KEY]
>
> If so can t be accessed via
>
> put otherArray[ARRAY_KEY][0] into myVariable?

In Transcript a multi-dimensional array is created like this - 
myArray["key1", "key2"].  AFAIK you cannot assign an array as the value 
of another array element.  Someone correct me if I'm wrong.

What you can do is assign an array to a custom property set.  An 
example:

put "stuff" into myArray["Key1", "Key1.2", "Key1.2.1"]

set the customProperties["MyArray"] of this card to myArray

The card would now have a new Custom Property named "MyArray" with the 
key: "Key1,Key1.2,Key1.2.1" and a value of "stuff"


-- 
Trevor DeVore
Blue Mango Multimedia
trevor at mangomultimedia.com


From marty at vertex.ucls.uchicago.edu  Mon Feb  9 15:36:24 2004
From: marty at vertex.ucls.uchicago.edu (Marty Billingsley)
Date: Mon, 9 Feb 2004 14:36:24 -0600 (CST)
Subject: Andy's comments and positioning...
In-Reply-To: <20040207052736.EF44A930323@mail.runrev.com>
References: <20040207052736.EF44A930323@mail.runrev.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.4.58.0402091414030.7699@vertex.ucls.uchicago.edu>

Richard Gaskin <ambassador at fourthworld.com> asks
>Marty Billingsley wrote:
>
>> That said, the RR user interface isn't as friendly toward
>> students as it could be, but we're coping. :-)
>
>If you could make three changes to the Rev UI what would they be?

Have to think about this for a while.  I'm in the middle of the
second go-around of a quarter-long course that was taught in
HyperCard until this year (to eighth graders), and am just getting
a handle on what the kids find to be difficult.

1: more for my convenience than the students', but I'd love to
have the Home stack back.  I used to be able to include a whole
library of sounds for the students to use without having to
explicitly import them.  Now I have to give the students a CD of
sound effects and have them import the sounds into their projects
before they can use them.  Huge time-waster.

Another example of the added difficulty: we do a project that
incorporates music (we create an electronic keyboard) using Shakobox.
The students have to explicitly start the stack using Shakobox and
also include an applescript which quits an external application when
they close the stack.  I'd like to hide this detail from my students;
right now I put a stack in a central location that they can copy
from; the stack has the scripts necessary to make Shakobox work, but
nothing else.  Having the Home stack back would be great; is there
some way to mimic that in Rev?

2: minor annoyances could be fixed, such as the properties
inspector sometimes not inspecting the object that is currently
selected.  I'm thinking it's supposed to switch when when you
switch selections, but it only happens about half the time.
Since students aren't very alert to this they end up changing
properties of the wrong object some of the time.

The painting tools aren't very robust; they often don't work
when another object, like a button, is present on the card.
I like to encourage the students to create their own art work
instead of just using images off the web, so this is off-putting.

3: the properties inspector has many more options than my students
use.  They find it hard to remember where things are, because (to
them) the placement isn't always logical.  Why, for example, can't
you choose the text color in the text formatting tab?  I'd like
some way to simplify the inspector so that things my students are
likely to need will be on the main tab (basic properties) and
everything else is someplace else.  This, of course, would have
to be configurable by each user, much the way toolbars are in
many apps.

This was a good question!  Made me think....and realize that the
UI is actually pretty robust, if the above is all I could come
up with.....

Oh, and help could be easier.  Better keyword search and/or index
to the transcript language dictionary.  Right now you have to
know the name of the thing you want to find out about.  We need
a transcript dictionary of synonyms. :-)

  - marty

--
Marty Billingsley (marty at ucls.uchicago.edu)
The University of Chicago Laboratory Schools

    "We are our choices...."
                   - Sartre



From nnoydb at excite.com  Mon Feb  9 15:36:37 2004
From: nnoydb at excite.com (Kevin)
Date: Mon,  9 Feb 2004 15:36:37 -0500 (EST)
Subject: Setting a element of a array equal to a array?
Message-ID: <20040209203637.470C7299D3@xprdmailfe23.nwk.excite.com>


Does the access Array[ key1, key2 ] expand all elements of the array to have the same number of cells or is this dynamic?  I gues the qestion is is the array actually implemented as a list?

K






 --- On Mon 02/09, Trevor DeVore < lists at mangomultimedia.com > wrote:
From: Trevor DeVore [mailto: lists at mangomultimedia.com]
To: use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
Date: Mon, 9 Feb 2004 13:31:35 -0700
Subject: Re: Setting a element of a array equal to a array?

On Feb 9, 2004, at 1:18 PM, "" <nnoydb at excite.com> wrote:<br>><br>> Simple syntax/support question I would like to "put" a array into the <br>> element of another array then access it.  How would this be done?<br>><br>> put myArray into otherArray[ARRAY_KEY]<br>><br>> If so can t be accessed via<br>><br>> put otherArray[ARRAY_KEY][0] into myVariable?<br><br>In Transcript a multi-dimensional array is created like this - <br>myArray["key1", "key2"].  AFAIK you cannot assign an array as the value <br>of another array element.  Someone correct me if I'm wrong.<br><br>What you can do is assign an array to a custom property set.  An <br>example:<br><br>put "stuff" into myArray["Key1", "Key1.2", "Key1.2.1"]<br><br>set the customProperties["MyArray"] of this card to myArray<br><br>The card would now have a new Custom Property named "MyArray" with the <br>key: "Key1,Key1.2,Key1.2.1" and a value of "stuff"<br><br><br>-- <br>Trevor DeVore<br>Blue Mango Multimedia<br>trevor at mangomultimedia.com<br><br>_______________________________________________<br>use-revolution mailing list<br>use-revolution at lists.runrev.com<br>http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution<br>

_______________________________________________
Join Excite! - http://www.excite.com
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From m.young at mac.com  Mon Feb  9 15:39:41 2004
From: m.young at mac.com (Michael Young)
Date: Mon, 9 Feb 2004 13:39:41 -0700
Subject: Lorin is Lorin (was Re: Rev Review)
In-Reply-To: <20040209190137.47302930402@mail.runrev.com>
References: <20040209190137.47302930402@mail.runrev.com>
Message-ID: <164A4D8A-5B40-11D8-9D7F-000A956A6E6C@mac.com>

> On Feb 4, 2004, at 2:33 PM, Richard Gaskin wrote:
>
>> I like your comments on ways to improve the RunRev Web site and would
>> encourage you to forward them to Lorin Rivers at <lorin at runrev.com> as
>> I'm sure that refining Web site is an ongoing interest.
>
> Lorin Rivers was VP of Marketing for REAL Software (REALbasic)
> Or is this a different Lorin Rivers?
>
I had the same question when Lorin sent me an e-mail last summer asking 
me
to comment on RR.

It is the same person per my e-mail discussion with Heather.

Michael Y


From nnoydb at excite.com  Mon Feb  9 15:43:08 2004
From: nnoydb at excite.com (Kevin)
Date: Mon,  9 Feb 2004 15:43:08 -0500 (EST)
Subject: Setting a element of a array equal to a array?
Message-ID: <20040209204308.9323C299CE@xprdmailfe23.nwk.excite.com>




My problem is that a custom property would be a "global" type setting.  I am attempting to create a structure that can be passed from message to message (a type of secession information).  I require a "parameters" array to be a "member" of a "secession" array object any ideas? 


In C++/Perl this is relative sumple but I cannot seem to locate any information about it for Transcript.

Kevin



 --- On Mon 02/09, Trevor DeVore < lists at mangomultimedia.com > wrote:
From: Trevor DeVore [mailto: lists at mangomultimedia.com]
To: use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
Date: Mon, 9 Feb 2004 13:31:35 -0700
Subject: Re: Setting a element of a array equal to a array?

On Feb 9, 2004, at 1:18 PM, "" <nnoydb at excite.com> wrote:<br>><br>> Simple syntax/support question I would like to "put" a array into the <br>> element of another array then access it.  How would this be done?<br>><br>> put myArray into otherArray[ARRAY_KEY]<br>><br>> If so can t be accessed via<br>><br>> put otherArray[ARRAY_KEY][0] into myVariable?<br><br>In Transcript a multi-dimensional array is created like this - <br>myArray["key1", "key2"].  AFAIK you cannot assign an array as the value <br>of another array element.  Someone correct me if I'm wrong.<br><br>What you can do is assign an array to a custom property set.  An <br>example:<br><br>put "stuff" into myArray["Key1", "Key1.2", "Key1.2.1"]<br><br>set the customProperties["MyArray"] of this card to myArray<br><br>The card would now have a new Custom Property named "MyArray" with the <br>key: "Key1,Key1.2,Key1.2.1" and a value of "stuff"<br><br><br>-- <br>Trevor DeVore<br>Blue Mango Multimedia<br>trevor at mangomultimedia.com<br><br>_______________________________________________<br>use-revolution mailing list<br>use-revolution at lists.runrev.com<br>http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution<br>

_______________________________________________
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From lists at mangomultimedia.com  Mon Feb  9 16:00:28 2004
From: lists at mangomultimedia.com (Trevor DeVore)
Date: Mon, 9 Feb 2004 14:00:28 -0700
Subject: Setting a element of a array equal to a array?
In-Reply-To: <20040209203637.470C7299D3@xprdmailfe23.nwk.excite.com>
References: <20040209203637.470C7299D3@xprdmailfe23.nwk.excite.com>
Message-ID: <FD3477B1-5B42-11D8-98DD-000A956C462A@mangomultimedia.com>

On Feb 9, 2004, at 1:36 PM, Kevin wrote:

>
> Does the access Array[ key1, key2 ] expand all elements of the array 
> to have the same number of cells or is this dynamic?  I gues the 
> qestion is is the array actually implemented as a list?

I believe it is dynamic.


-- 
Trevor DeVore
Blue Mango Multimedia
trevor at mangomultimedia.com


From janschenkel at yahoo.com  Mon Feb  9 16:04:30 2004
From: janschenkel at yahoo.com (Jan Schenkel)
Date: Mon, 9 Feb 2004 13:04:30 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Setting a element of a array equal to a array?
In-Reply-To: <20040209204308.9323C299CE@xprdmailfe23.nwk.excite.com>
Message-ID: <20040209210430.45514.qmail@web60504.mail.yahoo.com>

--- Kevin <nnoydb at excite.com> wrote:
> 
> My problem is that a custom property would be a
> "global" type setting.  I am attempting to create a
> structure that can be passed from message to message
> (a type of secession information).  I require a
> "parameters" array to be a "member" of a "secession"
> array object any ideas? 
> 
> 
> In C++/Perl this is relative sumple but I cannot
> seem to locate any information about it for
> Transcript.
> 
> Kevin
> 

Hi Kevin,

One way to pass structured information from one
message to the next is by sticking the information in
an XMLTree, and pass its ID.

Jan Schenkel.

=====
"As we grow older, we grow both wiser and more foolish at the same time."  (La Rochefoucauld)

__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Finance: Get your refund fast by filing online.
http://taxes.yahoo.com/filing.html

From lists at mangomultimedia.com  Mon Feb  9 16:09:44 2004
From: lists at mangomultimedia.com (Trevor DeVore)
Date: Mon, 9 Feb 2004 14:09:44 -0700
Subject: Setting a element of a array equal to a array?
In-Reply-To: <20040209204308.9323C299CE@xprdmailfe23.nwk.excite.com>
References: <20040209204308.9323C299CE@xprdmailfe23.nwk.excite.com>
Message-ID: <4899A1D4-5B44-11D8-98DD-000A956C462A@mangomultimedia.com>

On Feb 9, 2004, at 1:43 PM, Kevin wrote:
> My problem is that a custom property would be a "global" type setting. 
>  I am attempting to create a structure that can be passed from message 
> to message (a type of secession information).  I require a 
> "parameters" array to be a "member" of a "secession" array object any 
> ideas?
>
>
> In C++/Perl this is relative sumple but I cannot seem to locate any 
> information about it for Transcript.

I came from a PHP background where I would used arrays for just about 
everything.  Arrays aren't quite as useful in Transcript but I've found 
that with Transcript I was able to use line/comma delimited lists for 
quite a few things that I would have normally used arrays for.  You can 
access the values using item x of myArray["Key"] or line x of 
myArray["Key"].

So in your example you may be able to turn your parameters array into a 
parameters list "param1,param2,param3" or 
"param1"&cr&"param2"&cr&"param3", etc.  That might accomplish what you 
want.


-- 
Trevor DeVore
Blue Mango Multimedia
trevor at mangomultimedia.com


From rgmiller at pacbell.net  Mon Feb  9 16:10:36 2004
From: rgmiller at pacbell.net (Ray G. Miller)
Date: Mon, 09 Feb 2004 13:10:36 -0800
Subject: Manipulating Old Dates
References: <20040208010040.E0A8293033C@mail.runrev.com>
Message-ID: <4027F74C.7000800@pacbell.net>

Ken Norris asked:

>> Rob,
>> 
>> In the product I'm working on with a client right now, we keep track of
>> birthdates. And the way we manage it is by setting the centuryCutoff to
>> one less than the current year (so right now it's "03"). This means that
>> as long as someone is 99 years old or less, we're OK. It's not a perfect
>> solution, but it's working so far.
>  
>


 > What do we do with _really_ old dates, like weather logs from 
California missions 300 years ago? Ideas? Ken N.

The centuryCutoff is a real bad idea. HyperCard had it almost correct: "true date" up to +/- AD 32000...

About a thousand cycles ago on the MetaCard list, this basic flaw in the engine was hammered around for a month or more, I believe Rob Cozen was one of the contributors. Someone came up with a Julian/Gregorian convertor: worked up to (down to?) Jan 1, 1801.

I battled with it for another month or so, but it's pretty much a kudge: lookup tables for really olden times. 

This is not merely quirky, it's needed in lots of APPs. I have three projects going which require time spans greater than 100 years. If the filks at Apple had this solved, surely the RevTeam can do it... or this group.

Let's see, there's 365.24+... days in a year ;-)


Ray

Ray G. Miller
__________________
Turtlelips Productions
4009 Everett Ave.
Oakland, CA 94602
MailTo:rgmiller at pacbell.net
(V) 510.530.1971
(F) 510.482.3491



From nnoydb at excite.com  Mon Feb  9 16:23:04 2004
From: nnoydb at excite.com (Kevin)
Date: Mon,  9 Feb 2004 16:23:04 -0500 (EST)
Subject: Setting a element of a array equal to a array?
Message-ID: <20040209212304.2DE9D299AE@xprdmailfe23.nwk.excite.com>



Thanks for the suggestion I will try several and see how they work out.

Kevin




 --- On Mon 02/09, Trevor DeVore < lists at mangomultimedia.com > wrote:
From: Trevor DeVore [mailto: lists at mangomultimedia.com]
To: use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
Date: Mon, 9 Feb 2004 14:09:44 -0700
Subject: Re: Setting a element of a array equal to a array?

On Feb 9, 2004, at 1:43 PM, Kevin wrote:<br>> My problem is that a custom property would be a "global" type setting. <br>>  I am attempting to create a structure that can be passed from message <br>> to message (a type of secession information).  I require a <br>> "parameters" array to be a "member" of a "secession" array object any <br>> ideas?<br>><br>><br>> In C++/Perl this is relative sumple but I cannot seem to locate any <br>> information about it for Transcript.<br><br>I came from a PHP background where I would used arrays for just about <br>everything.  Arrays aren't quite as useful in Transcript but I've found <br>that with Transcript I was able to use line/comma delimited lists for <br>quite a few things that I would have normally used arrays for.  You can <br>access the values using item x of myArray["Key"] or line x of <br>myArray["Key"].<br><br>So in your example you may be able to turn your parameters array into a <br>parameters list "param1,param2,param3" or <br>"param1"&cr&"param2"&cr&"param3", etc.  That might accomplish what you <br>want.<br><br><br>-- <br>Trevor DeVore<br>Blue Mango Multimedia<br>trevor at mangomultimedia.com<br><br>_______________________________________________<br>use-revolution mailing list<br>use-revolution at lists.runrev.com<br>http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution<br>

_______________________________________________
Join Excite! - http://www.excite.com
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From chipp at chipp.com  Mon Feb  9 16:26:21 2004
From: chipp at chipp.com (Chipp Walters)
Date: Mon, 9 Feb 2004 15:26:21 -0600
Subject: mission critical apps; was Re: cross platform ide
In-Reply-To: <OOEILOHDALDBNFBEKCMLAEACCCAA.chipp@altuit.com>
Message-ID: <OOEILOHDALDBNFBEKCMLGEAECCAA.chipp@chipp.com>

Alex,
 
My first mission critical app was written in SuperCard! It was a 
Jumbotron display controller for the NBA called "JIVES" and it 
controlled the big screen TV's for NBA teams. As many advertisers 
use the Jumbotron, $$$ were at stake if it didn't work properly. 
In over 5 years of use, to my knowledge, it only malfunctioned 1 
time during a game (actually pre-game and it was due to a bug I 
accidently left in on a new build).

Talking with my C programmer partner Chris, he mentioned that the 
same messaging path problems are found in Delphi and VB as well 
with variants of C including C#. So, how does MS and Borland sell 
their products into mission critical enterprise environments?

If you can believe it, the thing ran on a Mac -- and still didn't crash.

He also stated the big problem with message paths is when the 
message chain gets full and then things get lost. He suggested 
that RR programs can be written to be 'procedural-like' (see 
mc.cgi's for instance) which would cut-down on the possibilities 
of message chain problems.

> > > But, salesmen come in all forms. I would suggest a different 
> tact: Use 
> > > RR to
> > > prototype the mission critical tool.
> > 
> > Don't appeal to programmer productivity. I already know runrev is the 
> > most productive tool for me. That's not the issue. I asked: "How are 
> > you going to sell xtalks in a corporate environment where reliability 
> > and correctness is _more important than programmer productivity_ ?"
> 
You missed the point...it's *not about productivity*, but rather 
the prototyping value of RunRev, which it is not necessary to be 
mission critical safe. The point is use RR to PROTOTYPE. You 
asked how to sell xTalks in corporate environments. Sell it as a 
PROTOTYPE tool.
>  
> > > All of that being said, I am currently working on 3 
> Enterprise class RR
> > > applications. I did them all by prototyping and convincing the 
> > > management
> > > they can save LOTS of $$$ by letting us develop in RR vs VB or C. So 
> > > far,
> > > it's worked.
> > 
> > Great! Are they mission critical? (my definition = $, property or 
> > safety is at stake)
> 
Well, the Homeland Security App has the safety of data at stake. 
Hemingway has the safety of an individuals website at stake -- 
along with the possible loss of revenue from a website being 
down/hacked. The last product is a realestate web application, 
with similar concerns.
> 
best,
 
Chipp

From alex at mindlube.com  Mon Feb  9 16:41:01 2004
From: alex at mindlube.com (Alex Rice)
Date: Mon, 9 Feb 2004 14:41:01 -0700
Subject: mission critical apps; was Re: cross platform ide
In-Reply-To: <OOEILOHDALDBNFBEKCMLGEAECCAA.chipp@chipp.com>
References: <OOEILOHDALDBNFBEKCMLGEAECCAA.chipp@chipp.com>
Message-ID: <A76E1756-5B48-11D8-9773-000393C4760A@mindlube.com>


On Feb 9, 2004, at 2:26 PM, Chipp Walters wrote:

> My first mission critical app was written in SuperCard! It was a
> Jumbotron display controller for the NBA called "JIVES" and it
> controlled the big screen TV's for NBA teams.

That's a great example. Case study material.

> Talking with my C programmer partner Chris, he mentioned that the
> same messaging path problems are found in Delphi and VB as well
> with variants of C including C#. So, how does MS and Borland sell
> their products into mission critical enterprise environments?

By bullsh1t-power, with raw marketing $.

> If you can believe it, the thing ran on a Mac -- and still didn't 
> crash.

I guess it must have been locked in a closet where nobody could run 
other apps on the Mac during ball games.

> He also stated the big problem with message paths is when the
> message chain gets full and then things get lost.

Message chain gets full and then things get lost? Ouch. That's no 
confidence builder.

play " ka-ching !"
answer info "Out of space in message chain; insert coin to continue." 
titled \
	"Oh &*^$"

>  You
> asked how to sell xTalks in corporate environments. Sell it as a
> PROTOTYPE tool.

OK point taken.

> Well, the Homeland Security App has the safety of data at stake.
> Hemingway has the safety of an individuals website at stake --
> along with the possible loss of revenue from a website being
> down/hacked. The last product is a realestate web application,
> with similar concerns.

Thanks for the counter examples.

--
Alex Rice | Mindlube Software | http://mindlube.com


From rjb at rz.uni-potsdam.de  Mon Feb  9 16:22:40 2004
From: rjb at rz.uni-potsdam.de (Robert Brenstein)
Date: Mon, 9 Feb 2004 22:22:40 +0100
Subject: The Bitstream VERA font, the first truely
 crossplatformsolution
In-Reply-To: <4AB2BF0C-5B32-11D8-A51E-000A9567A3E6@swcp.com>
References: <4AB2BF0C-5B32-11D8-A51E-000A9567A3E6@swcp.com>
Message-ID: <a0602041bbc4daa6a76a9@[141.89.100.235]>

>On Monday, February 9, 2004, at 06:24 AM, Robert Brenstein wrote:
>
>>This will be possible only when text attributes will become truly 
>>inherited. I mean individually inherited. As it is now, they are 
>>object/chunk attributes are now stored in sets (bundles of font 
>>name, size, and style). This should be an enhancement request but I 
>>don't recall seeing it in bugzilla.
>
>It has come up in the related issue a change in one changing the 
>other.  I don't remember if this is entered as an enhancement.  I'm 
>all for simple, clean and rich.  Independence contributes to 
>richness.
>
>Dar Scott

Upon more thorough investigation, I found it as bug #66. But is has 
only 1 vote!

Robert

From alex at mindlube.com  Mon Feb  9 16:58:38 2004
From: alex at mindlube.com (Alex Rice)
Date: Mon, 9 Feb 2004 14:58:38 -0700
Subject: mission critical apps; was Re: cross platform ide
In-Reply-To: <OOEILOHDALDBNFBEKCMLGEAECCAA.chipp@chipp.com>
References: <OOEILOHDALDBNFBEKCMLGEAECCAA.chipp@chipp.com>
Message-ID: <1DDBF9E4-5B4B-11D8-9773-000393C4760A@mindlube.com>


On Feb 9, 2004, at 2:26 PM, Chipp Walters wrote:

> Talking with my C programmer partner Chris, he mentioned that the
> same messaging path problems are found in Delphi and VB as well
> with variants of C including C#. So, how does MS and Borland sell
> their products into mission critical enterprise environments?

On this point my response was kind of flippant. More serious:

With C and C#, the compiler goes to great effort to flag problems 
before run-time, and static typing is also available.

Delphi I have no idea.

VB I don't know (However, with VBA I know there are static object 
types. I don't remember what other steps the compiler takes when you 
save or compile a script)

I would not lump xtalks and C, C#, VB, Delphi all into one category. I 
still believe there are a lot of challenge that are unique to xtalks 
and runrev.

--
Alex Rice | Mindlube Software | http://mindlube.com


From kbomb at umich.edu  Mon Feb  9 17:01:02 2004
From: kbomb at umich.edu (Dennis F. Kahlbaum)
Date: Mon, 09 Feb 2004 17:01:02 -0500
Subject: Newbie Help: Best method for entering/displaying array data
Message-ID: <4028031E.D1FA3A6A@umich.edu>

I am working on a weather-related application which requires processing
24 hourly values for temperature and relative humidity.   The user has
the option of using default values or changing any of them.  My current
thought is to use two 24-cell arrays for holding the data. What is the
best method in RR for displaying and editing the temperature and
relative humidity arrays?   My attempts at using a field with a vertical
grid doesn't work.  Any detailed help (including, perhaps, an example
stack) would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks.

Dennis F. Kahlbaum
University of Michigan



From sarahr at genesearch.com.au  Mon Feb  9 17:04:43 2004
From: sarahr at genesearch.com.au (Sarah Reichelt)
Date: Tue, 10 Feb 2004 08:04:43 +1000
Subject: Setting the window rect and splitter loc in the Variable
In-Reply-To: <4023E924.4060508@pacbell.net>
References: <20040206034443.01F5C930289@mail.runrev.com>
	<4023E924.4060508@pacbell.net>
Message-ID: <F7489757-5B4B-11D8-8E1C-0003937A97B8@genesearch.com.au>

>> It drove me crazy that the VW window kept resetting, so I worked out 
>> this technique: open it up and set it how you would like it. Then 
>> hold down ALL the modifier keys (Shift, Control, Option & Command) 
>> and click in the Variable Watcher.
>
>
> Do you use your elbow to hold'em down or ask the cat for help?
>
My nose wasn't doing anything else at the time :-)

BTW - this tip didn't work for some people and I finally worked out 
this was because of a preference setting. If you go into the Rev 
Preferences and check "Contextual menus work in revolution windows", 
then you will get access to this method.

Cheers,
Sarah
sarahr at genesearch.com.au
http://www.troz.net/Rev/


From 3mcgrath at adelphia.net  Mon Feb  9 13:31:24 2004
From: 3mcgrath at adelphia.net (Thomas McGrath III)
Date: Mon, 9 Feb 2004 13:31:24 -0500
Subject: OS X Standalone Prog Folder Problem?
In-Reply-To: <p06020400bc4d7dad53c7@[192.168.181.1]>
References: <p06020400bc4d7dad53c7@[192.168.181.1]>
Message-ID: <2A5E26FA-5B2E-11D8-ADC1-000A95DA60FA@adelphia.net>

Just a thought, My classic apps have a data folder with the .rev file 
in it. Could that be where your file path starts? If so it is one level 
deeper than your OSX app. I had a similar problem with an autorun win 
cd and ended up having to put the media at the root level for OS9 and 
OSX but also have it available one level deep for the win file. In 
future projects I will know this and always put my media at least one 
level deep in separate folders. i.e.:
CD:
	Readme.txt
	OS9 App
	OSX App
	autorun.inf -- for win.exe file in Data folder
	WinShortcut -- to Win.exe one level deeper for easy nav when not 
autorun.inf used
		Data -- Folder one level deep
			Win.exe App
			Media -- folder for all media
				media.wav
				media.png
				media.jpg -- etc.
			Library1.rev -- Mac library file
			Library2.rev -- etc.
			Data -- folder for win library files
				winLibrary.rev -- win library file

This way all apps can get to library files and media files as they need 
to in distributed form.

Tom
	
On Feb 9, 2004, at 1:15 PM, Peter Reid wrote:

> I'm using Rev 2.1.2 under Mac OS X 10.3.2 to build an app.  If I run 
> the app inside the development environment, or as a standalone Classic 
> app, then it works fine.  However, if I run the OS X app built at the 
> same time, then it fails to locate the support folder and files in the 
> same folder as the app.
>
> Any suggestions please, this was meant to be a "quick" rehosting as 
> part of a general upgrade from Mac OS 9 to Mac OS X, but currently my 
> client will have to run the app in Classic mode as the OS X version 
> doesn't work!
>
> Thanks
> -- 
> Peter Reid
> Reid-IT Limited, Loughborough, Leics., UK
> Tel: +44 (0)1509 268843 Fax: +44 (0)8700 527576
> E-mail: preid at reidit.co.uk
>         preid at reidit.demon.co.uk
>         peter.reidit at ntlworld.com
> Web: http://www.reidit.co.uk
>      http://www.reidit.demon.co.uk
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>
>

Thomas J. McGrath III
SCS
1000 Killarney Dr.
Pittsburgh, PA 15234
412-885-8541


From dsc at swcp.com  Mon Feb  9 17:23:44 2004
From: dsc at swcp.com (Dar Scott)
Date: Mon, 9 Feb 2004 15:23:44 -0700
Subject: Setting a element of a array equal to a array?
In-Reply-To: <20040209201857.C907E299A8@xprdmailfe23.nwk.excite.com>
Message-ID: <9F7F5828-5B4E-11D8-A51E-000A9567A3E6@swcp.com>


On Monday, February 9, 2004, at 01:18 PM, "" <nnoydb at excite.com> wrote:

> Simple syntax/support question I would like to "put" a array into the 
> element of another array then access it.  How would this be done?
>
> put myArray into otherArray[ARRAY_KEY]
>
> If so can t be accessed via
>
> put otherArray[ARRAY_KEY][0] into myVariable?

You can't do that.  Yet.  There is an enhancement request on bugzilla.

But the coma operator is can turn a 1D array into virtually a 2D or 3D 
array.  When working with numbers and the comma operator to make keys, 
make sure the numberFormat property is the same.  That may not be as 
much a concern with whole numbers.

Dar Scott


From sarahr at genesearch.com.au  Mon Feb  9 17:24:27 2004
From: sarahr at genesearch.com.au (Sarah Reichelt)
Date: Tue, 10 Feb 2004 08:24:27 +1000
Subject: Tutorials or instructions on delivering MacOSX apps...
In-Reply-To: <a06020405bc491b3c81dc@[141.89.100.235]>
References: <GGEOJBEEGFHLDOFIMMPIKEIFFPAA.chipp@chipp.com>
	<a06020405bc491b3c81dc@[141.89.100.235]>
Message-ID: <B8EB2635-5B4E-11D8-8E1C-0003937A97B8@genesearch.com.au>

On 6 Feb 2004, at 8:34 pm, Robert Brenstein wrote:
>>
>> Who said Macs were easier? Not when it comes to compiling and 
>> delivering
>> apps! (<--WARNING: OBVIOUS TROLL)
>>
>
> This has always been true. From day one. Macs have been easier for end 
> users but supporting that properly has always required more work by 
> programmers (even with such great tools like THINK products were).
>
I think this is a very good point which is often over-looked. After our 
efforts, the customers get a single file, which automatically unpacks 
on download and gives them a disk image already open on the desktop. 
All they have to do is drag what appears to be a single file to their 
hard disk (although many apps will run fine from the disk image) and 
double-click. That's it - the complete installation process. 
Uninstalling is just as easy - trash that single file and it's gone. We 
know what lies under the surface, but why should our users have to 
bother about that.

Given that, I still have one problem with an OS X distribution which 
hopefully some guru on the list will be able to answer :-) (Alex - are 
you listening?)

I have an application and it is all bundled into a neat package, which 
I have set up in a folder with a background picture so that it shows 
the logo and the install instructions ("Drag this to your applications 
folder.") This works fine on my own computer and even when I create a 
disk image, compress it and then extract it again, I still get the 
picture showing. However when I send the compressed disk image to 
another computer, the picture doesn't show, even though the picture is 
hidden on the disk image.

I can only think of 2 possibilities and have no idea how to get around 
either of them:
1. The path is absolute, so it's looking for the image in "Sarah's HD" 
rather than in it's own folder.
2. This is dictated by a preference that is stored on my computer, not 
on the disk image.

I know this can be done as I have downloaded disk images with a 
background picture, so does anyone know how?

TIA,
Sarah
sarahr at genesearch.com.au
http://www.troz.net/Rev/


From preid at reidit.demon.co.uk  Mon Feb  9 17:27:08 2004
From: preid at reidit.demon.co.uk (Peter Reid)
Date: Mon, 9 Feb 2004 22:27:08 +0000
Subject: OS X Standalone Prog Folder Problem?
In-Reply-To: <2A5E26FA-5B2E-11D8-ADC1-000A95DA60FA@adelphia.net>
References: <p06020400bc4d7dad53c7@[192.168.181.1]>
 <2A5E26FA-5B2E-11D8-ADC1-000A95DA60FA@adelphia.net>
Message-ID: <p06020405bc4db8942281@[192.168.181.4]>

Hmmm.  Thanks for the thought, but why does it WORK inside the 
development environment under OS X?  I would have thought that it 
would fail BOTH as a standalone AND in the development environment 
under OS X??  My folder structure is:

    Standalone App
    support folder
       support files

I've used this approach for ages, including with projects using 
earlier versions (v1.1.1) of RunRev under OS X, and not had this 
problem before.  It seems as though something has changed or there is 
a bug?!

>Just a thought, My classic apps have a data folder with the .rev 
>file in it. Could that be where your file path starts? If so it is 
>one level deeper than your OSX app. I had a similar problem with an 
>autorun win cd and ended up having to put the media at the root 
>level for OS9 and OSX but also have it available one level deep for 
>the win file. In future projects I will know this and always put my 
>media at least one level deep in separate folders. i.e.:
>
><snip>
>
>Tom
>
>On Feb 9, 2004, at 1:15 PM, Peter Reid wrote:
>
>>I'm using Rev 2.1.2 under Mac OS X 10.3.2 to build an app.  If I 
>>run the app inside the development environment, or as a standalone 
>>Classic app, then it works fine.  However, if I run the OS X app 
>>built at the same time, then it fails to locate the support folder 
>>and files in the same folder as the app.
>>
>>Any suggestions please, this was meant to be a "quick" rehosting as 
>>part of a general upgrade from Mac OS 9 to Mac OS X, but currently 
>>my client will have to run the app in Classic mode as the OS X 
>>version doesn't work!
>
>Thomas J. McGrath III

-- 
Peter Reid
Reid-IT Limited, Loughborough, Leics., UK
Tel: +44 (0)1509 268843 Fax: +44 (0)8700 527576
E-mail: preid at reidit.co.uk
         preid at reidit.demon.co.uk
         peter.reidit at ntlworld.com
Web: http://www.reidit.co.uk
      http://www.reidit.demon.co.uk

From alex at mindlube.com  Mon Feb  9 17:38:29 2004
From: alex at mindlube.com (Alex Rice)
Date: Mon, 9 Feb 2004 15:38:29 -0700
Subject: Tutorials or instructions on delivering MacOSX apps...
In-Reply-To: <B8EB2635-5B4E-11D8-8E1C-0003937A97B8@genesearch.com.au>
References: <GGEOJBEEGFHLDOFIMMPIKEIFFPAA.chipp@chipp.com>
	<a06020405bc491b3c81dc@[141.89.100.235]>
	<B8EB2635-5B4E-11D8-8E1C-0003937A97B8@genesearch.com.au>
Message-ID: <AEACC92E-5B50-11D8-9773-000393C4760A@mindlube.com>


On Feb 9, 2004, at 3:24 PM, Sarah Reichelt wrote:

> Given that, I still have one problem with an OS X distribution which 
> hopefully some guru on the list will be able to answer :-) (Alex - are 
> you listening?)

Sorry, there is only one guru on this list: Sivakatirswami
:-)

>
> I know this can be done as I have downloaded disk images with a 
> background picture, so does anyone know how?

I suspect there is some caching going on with the Finder's metadata. 
You have to trick the Finder into syncing the metadata to disk. See 
3.7.4 below

<http://www.c-command.com/dropdmg/manual.shtml#x1-120003.5>
3.7 Making Images With Background Pictures

When making an image from a folder, DropDMG copies to the image the 
background pictures and view options of all the contained folders. It 
does not copy this information for the top-level folder because Apple 
does not provide a way to do this. If the top-level background picture 
and view settings on the image are important to you, you can set them 
as follows:
	1.  	 Drag the folder onto DropDMG and create a read-write image.
	2.  	 Mount the image in the Finder.
	3.  	 Set the background picture on the mounted image. Make sure the 
picture file you select is saved somewhere on the disk image. Set the 
view options and arrange the icons the way you want them.
	4.  	 Sometimes the Finder doesn?t save changes to the view options. 
It may help to create and delete an empty folder on the image.
	5.  	 Unmount the image in the Finder using the Eject command in the 
File menu.
	6.  	 Drag the .dmg file onto DropDMG and convert it to read-only or a 
compressed format.


--
Alex Rice | Mindlube Software | http://mindlube.com


From slynch at richmond.sd38.bc.ca  Mon Feb  9 17:37:44 2004
From: slynch at richmond.sd38.bc.ca (Stewart Lynch)
Date: Mon, 09 Feb 2004 14:37:44 -0800
Subject: Building a Windows Menu
In-Reply-To: <B8EB2635-5B4E-11D8-8E1C-0003937A97B8@genesearch.com.au>
References: <B8EB2635-5B4E-11D8-8E1C-0003937A97B8@genesearch.com.au>
Message-ID: <fc.00231a3c015ccce63b9aca00704b24ca.15ccebf@richmond.sd38.bc.ca>

I have followed the instructions in the Rev Cookbook for creating a Window
menu (Recipe for automatically updating a Window Menu.

It works just fine on Windows, but not under Mac OS X

I note the following in the Recipe.

Cross-platform note:  When a menu button is being displayed in the Mac OS
menu bar, it does not receive mouseDown messages, but its group does. For
this reason, this example handler should be placed in the script of the
menu bar group, rather than in the menu button. (The first line of the
handler makes sure it?s only executed if the user clicked the Window
menu.) This ensures that the example will work on all platforms.

The problem appears to be the line
if the short name of the target is "Window" then

When you click on the menubar under OS X, the target is the menubar and
not the menu so the conditional never gets executed since the name of the
target is not "Window" but the name of the menubar itself.

Thus, the Cross-Platform note above is true, but placing the script in the
menu bar group does not work.

Any suggestions?


*******************************************
........
:  o/  : Stewart Lynch
: <|   : Director of Instruction, Technology and Information Services
: / >  : Richmond School District
:......:   Richmond, BC Canada
Internet: slynch at richmond.sd38.bc.ca
https://public.sd38.bc.ca/~slynch
tel. (604) 668-6128 fax: (604) 668-6006
*******************************************


From ambassador at fourthworld.com  Mon Feb  9 18:00:36 2004
From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin)
Date: Mon, 09 Feb 2004 15:00:36 -0800
Subject: Tutorials or instructions on delivering MacOSX apps...
In-Reply-To: <B8EB2635-5B4E-11D8-8E1C-0003937A97B8@genesearch.com.au>
Message-ID: <BC4D5114.3D07F%ambassador@fourthworld.com>

Sarah Reichelt wrote:

> I have an application and it is all bundled into a neat package, which
> I have set up in a folder with a background picture so that it shows
> the logo and the install instructions ("Drag this to your applications
> folder.") This works fine on my own computer and even when I create a
> disk image, compress it and then extract it again, I still get the
> picture showing. However when I send the compressed disk image to
> another computer, the picture doesn't show, even though the picture is
> hidden on the disk image.
> 
> I can only think of 2 possibilities and have no idea how to get around
> either of them:
> 1. The path is absolute, so it's

I had the same issue.  Make sure the graphic being referenced resides in the
DMG itself and you should be fine.

-- 
 Richard Gaskin 
 Fourth World Media Corporation
 Developer of WebMerge: Publish any database on any Web site
 ___________________________________________________________
 Ambassador at FourthWorld.com       http://www.FourthWorld.com


From gizmotron at earthlink.net  Mon Feb  9 18:04:34 2004
From: gizmotron at earthlink.net (Mark Brownell)
Date: Mon, 9 Feb 2004 15:04:34 -0800
Subject: Tutorials or instructions on delivering MacOSX apps...
In-Reply-To: <AEACC92E-5B50-11D8-9773-000393C4760A@mindlube.com>
Message-ID: <539A038E-5B54-11D8-9CE7-000A95859272@earthlink.net>


On Monday, February 9, 2004, at 02:38  PM, Alex Rice wrote:

>
>> Given that, I still have one problem with an OS X distribution which 
>> hopefully some guru on the list will be able to answer :-) (Alex - 
>> are you listening?)
>
> Sorry, there is only one guru on this list: Sivakatirswami
> :-)


Yeah :-) ... and he's gone climbing in the Himalayas


From sarahr at genesearch.com.au  Mon Feb  9 18:11:48 2004
From: sarahr at genesearch.com.au (Sarah Reichelt)
Date: Tue, 10 Feb 2004 09:11:48 +1000
Subject: Building a Windows Menu
In-Reply-To: <fc.00231a3c015ccce63b9aca00704b24ca.15ccebf@richmond.sd38.bc.ca>
References: <B8EB2635-5B4E-11D8-8E1C-0003937A97B8@genesearch.com.au>
	<fc.00231a3c015ccce63b9aca00704b24ca.15ccebf@richmond.sd38.bc.ca>
Message-ID: <563BEF1E-5B55-11D8-8E1C-0003937A97B8@genesearch.com.au>

On 10 Feb 2004, at 9:02 am, Stewart Lynch wrote:

> I have followed the instructions in the Rev Cookbook for creating a 
> Window
> menu (Recipe for automatically updating a Window Menu.
>
> It works just fine on Windows, but not under Mac OS X
>
> I note the following in the Recipe.
>
> Cross-platform note:  When a menu button is being displayed in the Mac 
> OS
> menu bar, it does not receive mouseDown messages, but its group does. 
> For
> this reason, this example handler should be placed in the script of the
> menu bar group, rather than in the menu button. (The first line of the
> handler makes sure it?s only executed if the user clicked the Window
> menu.) This ensures that the example will work on all platforms.
>
> The problem appears to be the line
> if the short name of the target is "Window" then
>
You are correct - this is the problem, so just remove this line (& it's 
matching end if) and build the Windows menu any time the mouse goes 
down in the menu bar. It is so quick the extra overhead doesn't matter,

Jeanne: this is a cookbook problem.

Cheers,
Sarah


From tuviah at runrev.com  Mon Feb  9 18:14:17 2004
From: tuviah at runrev.com (tuviah snyder)
Date: Mon, 9 Feb 2004 18:14:17 -0500
Subject: Transcript is flexible and requires me to make choices.
References: <20040209190138.8AE8F930403@mail.runrev.com>
Message-ID: <00d801c3ef62$71f1a080$1602a8c0@USER>

>Kinda like in C++ where the virtual keyword changes how the 
>functions-object lookups are done at runtime? (totally from memory; I 
>never was a good C++ programmer)
Yes. There is a reason why methods aren't virtual by default in C sharp

http://www.artima.com/intv/nonvirtual.html

Tuviah


From tuviah at runrev.com  Mon Feb  9 18:19:49 2004
From: tuviah at runrev.com (tuviah snyder)
Date: Mon, 9 Feb 2004 18:19:49 -0500
Subject: Transcript is flexible and requires me to make choices.
References: <20040209201935.D59D693033C@mail.runrev.com>
Message-ID: <00e801c3ef63$3795c9b0$1602a8c0@USER>

>Inline might be on this path.
Agreed. Let's discuss this on the improve list.

Tuviah


From frank at backtalk.com  Mon Feb  9 18:33:13 2004
From: frank at backtalk.com (Frank Leahy)
Date: Mon, 9 Feb 2004 23:33:13 +0000
Subject: ftp commands that RR sends and receives?
Message-ID: <5446BC2E-5B58-11D8-B678-000A9580FCCE@backtalk.com>

Is it possible to view a transcript of the commands that RR sends and 
receives when I use the various ftp upload and ftp download functions?

An undocumented callback parameter perhaps?

Thanks,
-- Frank


From dvk at dvkconsult.com.au  Mon Feb  9 18:36:50 2004
From: dvk at dvkconsult.com.au (David Vaughan)
Date: Tue, 10 Feb 2004 10:36:50 +1100
Subject: mission critical apps
In-Reply-To: <20040209201935.9003F93023F@mail.runrev.com>
References: <20040209201935.9003F93023F@mail.runrev.com>
Message-ID: <D5BEF9C0-5B58-11D8-B909-000A95729266@dvkconsult.com.au>


On  and before 10/02/2004, at 7:19, several people wrote many things on 
this topic:

>

Fundamentally, Alex is right but it does not matter a lot. So is Rob 
but in a different sphere. Meanwhile, I think Frank is wrong.

Without going back to the original, I recall Alex's basic points as 
being:
- Rev lacks the inherent or external tools to support large team 
development.
- A Smalltalk-like message passing structure makes assurance of formal 
correctness difficult.

I am not certain that the second point (as I have interpreted him) is 
true in the sense that it can not be dealt with in tool design or code 
management but the first alone is sufficient to wipe Rev out of large 
scale application development anyway. So, does this matter?

While some of the commentary drifted between xTalk as a viable language 
and the actual topic of message model and team development, the nub 
appears to be: in what market is Rev playing, and is the tool you are 
using viable? In fact, I think this thread originally grew from Alex or 
someone's difficulty in getting Rev accepted as a development tool by a 
client.

There was an article a year or so ago (there will be a ref in the 
archives somewhere) on xTalks. Essentially, it placed them as very high 
level RAD tools ideally adapted to glue functions. Recall that Alex 
never gainsaid Rev's productivity advantages, only its fitness for 
large scale development. I think his reference to "mission critical" is 
a little off topic in that mission critical is quite often a discovery 
after the software has been in use for a while. I would simply stick 
with a measure of size, which of course is highly correlated with 
mission-critical.

Rob's defence of Rev's productivity and reliability is fair but again 
is off the core point. Rev is perfectly suited to those millions of 
small-scale niche (in the best sense) applications for business, on 
which the computing world actually thrives. It is also excellently 
suited to systems integration tasks of glueing unlike apps together, or 
post-processing standardised output to give interactive and enhanced 
access or multimedia presentation. In either of those roles, it can and 
will be used in "the enterprise" and is a powerful platform for a small 
firm marketing to those enterprises. It is just that it will not be 
used to re-write SAP or Sabre or ComputerShare or the like. It may help 
glue, say, the accounting system with a proprietary case management 
system and provide joint reporting from them or to enable common web 
access to a (Rev) engine reprocessing corporate data. These are things 
MIS generally does not want to do and present golden opportunities for 
small integration firms.

Then, there are endless apps already made by people on this list. Core 
tools like Rob's SDB, Sarah's POP library and Shao Sean's LibSMTP. Apps 
like Oenolog and Tom's instructive CD or Alex' ARC (excuse me for not 
going on). They are providing reliable and effective service because 
they are based on a solid platform.

Hence, I think Alex's positioning of Rev is fair but in my view not in 
any respect damaging. Let me put this another way. You could be a 
programmer in a huge enterprise or in a small business, possibly your 
own. Where have you chosen to work? Then choose the right tool for what 
you are doing and don't fret over what you are not doing.


While I'm here, I may as well add my free trade comment on Frank's 
request for C-like syntax:
- It will remove zero bugs from Rev
- It is more likely to add programmer coding and reading bugs than to 
reduce them
- It will make some people more comfortable with the language and 
others less.
- Transcript is a perfectly good (in the vernacular sense) formal 
language as it stands.

Those interested in it can always write the requisite pre-processor 
themselves and insert it into the editor, then release and maintain it 
for a price. The market will answer for their opinion.

regards
David


From erikhans08 at yahoo.com  Mon Feb  9 18:40:30 2004
From: erikhans08 at yahoo.com (erik hansen)
Date: Mon, 9 Feb 2004 15:40:30 -0800 (PST)
Subject: mission critical apps; was Re: cross platform ide
In-Reply-To: <GGEOJBEEGFHLDOFIMMPIEEPIFPAA.chipp@chipp.com>
Message-ID: <20040209234030.53075.qmail@web61103.mail.yahoo.com>

--- Chipp Walters <chipp at chipp.com> wrote:

> thinking of it a multimedia/game
> tool is most limiting.

it has to be one or the other?

=====
erik at erikhansen.org    http://www.erikhansen.org

__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Finance: Get your refund fast by filing online.
http://taxes.yahoo.com/filing.html

From erikhans08 at yahoo.com  Mon Feb  9 18:42:24 2004
From: erikhans08 at yahoo.com (erik hansen)
Date: Mon, 9 Feb 2004 15:42:24 -0800 (PST)
Subject: REV and multimedia
In-Reply-To: <51ACA48A-5B26-11D8-9773-000393C4760A@mindlube.com>
Message-ID: <20040209234224.36836.qmail@web61104.mail.yahoo.com>

--- Alex Rice <alex at mindlube.com> wrote:

> Quicktime is not available for Linux. Quicktime
> for Windows is a 16MB download.
> For a shareware developer to require users to
> make a 16MB download 
> could be a problem.

i couldn't find the PRICE for the download.

=====
erik at erikhansen.org    http://www.erikhansen.org

__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Finance: Get your refund fast by filing online.
http://taxes.yahoo.com/filing.html

From erikhans08 at yahoo.com  Mon Feb  9 18:44:36 2004
From: erikhans08 at yahoo.com (erik hansen)
Date: Mon, 9 Feb 2004 15:44:36 -0800 (PST)
Subject: REV and multimedia
In-Reply-To: <F2C03156-5B27-11D8-B447-000A27B49A96@major-k.de>
Message-ID: <20040209234436.37401.qmail@web61104.mail.yahoo.com>

--- Klaus Major <klaus at major-k.de> wrote:

> So in general, there are no reasons to not
> install QT on your pc...
> But maybe someone should write a "libMCI"

any comparisons with Windows Media Player?

=====
erik at erikhansen.org    http://www.erikhansen.org

__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Finance: Get your refund fast by filing online.
http://taxes.yahoo.com/filing.html

From sarahr at genesearch.com.au  Mon Feb  9 18:54:46 2004
From: sarahr at genesearch.com.au (Sarah Reichelt)
Date: Tue, 10 Feb 2004 09:54:46 +1000
Subject: ftp commands that RR sends and receives?
In-Reply-To: <5446BC2E-5B58-11D8-B678-000A9580FCCE@backtalk.com>
References: <5446BC2E-5B58-11D8-B678-000A9580FCCE@backtalk.com>
Message-ID: <56DD7E60-5B5B-11D8-8E1C-0003937A97B8@genesearch.com.au>

The "libURLSetLogField" command allows you to specify a field which 
then gets filled with all this stuff. Just don't forget to give it the 
LONG name or ID of the field.

Cheers,
Sarah

On 10 Feb 2004, at 9:35 am, Frank Leahy wrote:

> Is it possible to view a transcript of the commands that RR sends and 
> receives when I use the various ftp upload and ftp download functions?
>
> An undocumented callback parameter perhaps?
>
> Thanks,
> -- Frank
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>
>
>


From briany at qldlearning.com  Mon Feb  9 18:55:28 2004
From: briany at qldlearning.com (Brian Yennie)
Date: Mon, 9 Feb 2004 18:55:28 -0500
Subject: mission critical apps
In-Reply-To: <D5BEF9C0-5B58-11D8-B909-000A95729266@dvkconsult.com.au>
Message-ID: <6FA0E717-5B5B-11D8-A5DB-000393AA08D2@qldlearning.com>

David,

> I am not certain that the second point (as I have interpreted him) is 
> true in the sense that it can not be dealt with in tool design or code 
> management but the first alone is sufficient to wipe Rev out of large 
> scale application development anyway.

I think you nailed it here. Disclaimer: xTalk was my first programming 
language and is still my "favorite". My primary job right now is on a 
small team PHP project.

I have no idea how I would function on a team xTalk project. Previous 
threads here have discussed CVS, bug tracking, group projects... and as 
far as I can tell all of those things are non-existent. They all make 
my life many times easier when working in PHP or C, or a host of other 
languages.

With that said, I've never seen a RAD tool that is also ideal for large 
team projects. I don't think of it as a flaw, but rather part of being 
a RAD tool. Rev *could* integrate with CVS, but with a great deal of 
effort. Extensions could be written to guarantee delivery of messages 
(what about just one big backscript that catches every message, and if 
it does, knows that it never got caught along the path?). Etc. But I 
don't know if any of this would be such a good thing. Revolution is 
already a cross-platform swiss army knife... would we _want_ it to be a 
swiss army tank?

- Brian


From ambassador at fourthworld.com  Mon Feb  9 18:57:10 2004
From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin)
Date: Mon, 09 Feb 2004 15:57:10 -0800
Subject: mission critical apps
In-Reply-To: <D5BEF9C0-5B58-11D8-B909-000A95729266@dvkconsult.com.au>
Message-ID: <BC4D5E56.3D09B%ambassador@fourthworld.com>

> - Rev lacks the inherent or external tools to support large team
> development.

The absence of a utility or language feature does not preclude the
possibility of its existence.

Shall we complain, or design?

-- 
 Richard Gaskin 
 Fourth World Media Corporation
 ___________________________________________________________
 Ambassador at FourthWorld.com       http://www.FourthWorld.com


From alex at mindlube.com  Mon Feb  9 18:58:39 2004
From: alex at mindlube.com (Alex Rice)
Date: Mon, 9 Feb 2004 16:58:39 -0700
Subject: REV and multimedia
In-Reply-To: <20040209234224.36836.qmail@web61104.mail.yahoo.com>
References: <20040209234224.36836.qmail@web61104.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <E1C4953C-5B5B-11D8-A048-000393C4760A@mindlube.com>


On Feb 9, 2004, at 4:42 PM, erik hansen wrote:

> i couldn't find the PRICE for the download.

Quicktime player is free that's all you need to play quicktime media. 
(but Apple is always trying to sell you Quicktime PRO which is ~ $30)
--
Alex Rice | Mindlube Software | http://mindlube.com


From dsc at swcp.com  Mon Feb  9 19:01:07 2004
From: dsc at swcp.com (Dar Scott)
Date: Mon, 9 Feb 2004 17:01:07 -0700
Subject: ftp commands that RR sends and receives?
In-Reply-To: <5446BC2E-5B58-11D8-B678-000A9580FCCE@backtalk.com>
Message-ID: <3A2D5EAC-5B5C-11D8-A51E-000A9567A3E6@swcp.com>


On Monday, February 9, 2004, at 04:33 PM, Frank Leahy wrote:

> Is it possible to view a transcript of the commands that RR sends and 
> receives when I use the various ftp upload and ftp download functions?

I use Ethereal for all (good) kinds of things.

Dar Scott


From ambassador at fourthworld.com  Mon Feb  9 19:00:26 2004
From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin)
Date: Mon, 09 Feb 2004 16:00:26 -0800
Subject: mission critical apps
In-Reply-To: <6FA0E717-5B5B-11D8-A5DB-000393AA08D2@qldlearning.com>
Message-ID: <BC4D5F19.3D09E%ambassador@fourthworld.com>

Brian Yennie wrote:

> I have no idea how I would function on a team xTalk project. Previous
> threads here have discussed CVS, bug tracking, group projects... and as
> far as I can tell all of those things are non-existent. They all make
> my life many times easier when working in PHP or C, or a host of other
> languages.

Rev objects can be atomized down to individual properties and scripts, and
reassembled again in nearly infinite variety.

What specifically is needed, and what are the challenges of building it?

-- 
 Richard Gaskin 
 Fourth World Media Corporation
 ___________________________________________________________
 Ambassador at FourthWorld.com       http://www.FourthWorld.com


From alex at mindlube.com  Mon Feb  9 19:22:59 2004
From: alex at mindlube.com (Alex Rice)
Date: Mon, 9 Feb 2004 17:22:59 -0700
Subject: mission critical apps
In-Reply-To: <BC4D5F19.3D09E%ambassador@fourthworld.com>
References: <BC4D5F19.3D09E%ambassador@fourthworld.com>
Message-ID: <47F5FC2E-5B5F-11D8-A048-000393C4760A@mindlube.com>


On Feb 9, 2004, at 5:00 PM, Richard Gaskin wrote:
> Rev objects can be atomized down to individual properties and scripts, 
> and
> reassembled again in nearly infinite variety.
>
> What specifically is needed, and what are the challenges of building 
> it?

David:
Not sure but I think Chipp last brought up the issue of multi-developer 
support. I guess as more people write business apps with Runrev, 
multi-developer support will be requested more.

Brian:
Developers that use CVS, Subversion etc. often use it on solo projects 
as well! It's very empowering to be able to "turn back the clock" on  
all or part of your code. IBM Visual Age for Java which has a 
"repository" where project code could be freeze-dried, versioned, and 
saved for later use or inspection. Good stuff, even working solo.

Richard:
If there were a version-control plugin for runrevI would surely be a 
customer! I believe some ideas have been kicked around on-list for 
mapping Rev stacks into a version control system. Some hurdles one 
would be looking at are:

- lack of specific hooks in IDE for controlling the script editor, the 
application browser, and property inspector.

- background groups - are they placed or not placed? How many cards are 
they placed on? I found trying to envision a stack as a filesystem 
hierarchy then background groups get confusing.

- proprietary binary stack format - depending on perspective it may be 
a non-issue because we need to have version control from within the IDE 
not from the filesystem.

--
Alex Rice | Mindlube Software | http://mindlube.com


From jperryl at ecs.fullerton.edu  Mon Feb  9 19:28:04 2004
From: jperryl at ecs.fullerton.edu (Judy Perry)
Date: Mon, 9 Feb 2004 16:28:04 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Is Transcript's English orientation a plus or minus? 
In-Reply-To: <D72E7C07-5AA7-11D8-9A91-000A9580FCCE@backtalk.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.4.33.0402091619370.26161-100000@titan.ecs.fullerton.edu>



On Mon, 9 Feb 2004, Frank Leahy wrote:
>
> Disagreeing right back at you.  If you want professionals to use Rev,
> then you need standard assignment statement syntax -- without them
> Revolution looks like a hobbyist language rather than a real working
> language ("oh, it's just HyperTalk, and we all know that wasn't a
> 'real' language/development environment")  And since it's perfectly
> possible to support "x = 1" without affecting the current "put" and
> "set" statements, I would argue that they should consider adding it.

If Transcript were to look just like C et al, what would be its
comparative advantage??

Show of hands:  Who wants Rev to be as user-friendly as C?

Judy


From briany at qldlearning.com  Mon Feb  9 19:29:37 2004
From: briany at qldlearning.com (Brian Yennie)
Date: Mon, 9 Feb 2004 19:29:37 -0500
Subject: mission critical apps
In-Reply-To: <BC4D5F19.3D09E%ambassador@fourthworld.com>
Message-ID: <35618990-5B60-11D8-A5DB-000393AA08D2@qldlearning.com>

Others may describe this better than me, but essentially CVS is 
accustomed to individual text (= code) files organized into 
directories. Although it supports binary files, it just basically 
stores them as-is and doesn't try to reconcile.

This is what I would suggest:

1) Write an exporter for MetaCard stacks which imports/exports 
individual scripts into folders, i.e.

stack/
	stackscript.mt
	card/
		mycardscript.mt
		object/
			myobjectscript.mt

CVS lets you operate (i.e. checkin, checkout, update, add, remove) on a 
file-by-file or folder-by-folder basis, so this would buy the layout it 
wants.

2) Extend it to export textual representations for each object.
stack/
	stackscript.mt
	stack.props
	mycard/
		mycardscript.mt
		mycard.props
		object/
			myobjectscript.mt

3) Write a Rev GUI on top of the import/export which allows you to:
	a) Create a new CVS repository
	b) Do an initial checkout of the contents of a repository
	c) Update your stack from the contents of the repository
	d) Check-in your edited and/or new objects to the repository

Those really are the basics. CVS isn't all that complicated. It mostly 
makes you go through the process- keep a central repository, checkout 
components to work on, check them in when they work (so you don't screw 
other people up with your changes).

To the Rev user, it would mean that they could open up Rev, connect to 
a shared repository, check out say, the stack script, work on it, and 
then commit their changes. Some other developer could be working at the 
same time on, say, some button's script. Another might be tweaking the 
locations of objects and adding graphics. When they are all done, they 
check-in. Next time they update from the repository, they see everyone 
else's changes _if_ they've been checked in. One person could check out 
a bunch of button scripts while another checked out their properties. 
Etc.

Conflicts in CVS aren't as magical as we would like, but it will at 
least alert you when you step on someone else's toes, and even try to 
resolve the conflicts on a line-by-line basis for your non-binary files.

All in all, it would be more grunt work than anything. CVS command-line 
tools are available on all major platforms (and some minor ones), so it 
could all be manipulated via shell().

- Brian

> Rev objects can be atomized down to individual properties and scripts, 
> and
> reassembled again in nearly infinite variety.
>
> What specifically is needed, and what are the challenges of building 
> it?


From briany at qldlearning.com  Mon Feb  9 19:31:12 2004
From: briany at qldlearning.com (Brian Yennie)
Date: Mon, 9 Feb 2004 19:31:12 -0500
Subject: mission critical apps
In-Reply-To: <47F5FC2E-5B5F-11D8-A048-000393C4760A@mindlube.com>
Message-ID: <6DE60343-5B60-11D8-A5DB-000393AA08D2@qldlearning.com>

Absolutely! I'm using it right now in a team of two... and I'd keep it 
if one left =).
It of course also makes easy work of nightly builds, branches, 
versioning, etc.

> Developers that use CVS, Subversion etc. often use it on solo projects 
> as well! It's very empowering to be able to "turn back the clock" on  
> all or part of your code. IBM Visual Age for Java which has a 
> "repository" where project code could be freeze-dried, versioned, and 
> saved for later use or inspection. Good stuff, even working solo.


From jperryl at ecs.fullerton.edu  Mon Feb  9 19:41:21 2004
From: jperryl at ecs.fullerton.edu (Judy Perry)
Date: Mon, 9 Feb 2004 16:41:21 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Is Transcript's English orientation a plus or minus?
In-Reply-To: <40277C1B.A6D396E1@Club-Internet.fr>
Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.4.33.0402091637100.26161-100000@titan.ecs.fullerton.edu>

As I've spent a good chunk of time reading some of these, it would seem
that novice programmers try to 'memorize' indeed, but lack comprehension
as traditional programming languages involve using the 'black box' model
of a computer, whereas scripting languages, code reuse and the like
support actual comprehension because the computer is now a 'clear box' in
which the programmer's actions are translated into concrete and
comprehensible outcomes.  This assists transfer.

Expert programmers engage in pattern-recognition in that they do not need
to study each line of code and understand it sequentially in debugging but
rather look for a predictable pattern that is either present or absent and
which jumps out at them.

I can supply references if anyone's interested...

Judy

On Mon, 9 Feb 2004, jbv wrote:

> AFAIR some studies in experimental psychology & ergonomics in the
> early 80's showed that beginners & experimented programmers think
> and mostly memorize algorithms in very different ways :
> - beginners tend to memorize an algo in a specific prog. language
> - experienced programmers memorize algos outside any prog. language
>
> I don't know if this remark is on or off topic, although according to these
> studies, one might assume that experienced programmers from different
> countries and with different native languages (USA, french, japanese...)
> don't bother much about the language used to code, but focus on the
> algorithm itself and perhaps think about (analyze & solve) a problem in
> a similar way...


From doug at webcrossing.com  Mon Feb  9 19:43:40 2004
From: doug at webcrossing.com (Doug Lerner)
Date: Tue, 10 Feb 2004 09:43:40 +0900
Subject: Is Transcript's English orientation a plus or minus?
In-Reply-To: <Pine.GSO.4.33.0402091619370.26161-100000@titan.ecs.fullerton.edu>
Message-ID: <BC4E584C.26146%doug@webcrossing.com>

On 2/10/04 9:28 AM, "Judy Perry" <jperryl at ecs.fullerton.edu> wrote:

> 
> 
> On Mon, 9 Feb 2004, Frank Leahy wrote:
>> 
>> Disagreeing right back at you.  If you want professionals to use Rev,
>> then you need standard assignment statement syntax -- without them
>> Revolution looks like a hobbyist language rather than a real working
>> language ("oh, it's just HyperTalk, and we all know that wasn't a
>> 'real' language/development environment")  And since it's perfectly
>> possible to support "x = 1" without affecting the current "put" and
>> "set" statements, I would argue that they should consider adding it.
> 
> If Transcript were to look just like C et al, what would be its
> comparative advantage??
> 
> Show of hands:  Who wants Rev to be as user-friendly as C?

To me, the advantage of Transcript over C is not syntax - it is:

    * The fact that UI building is native.
    * The fact that it is cross-platform.
    * The fact that there are so many high-level functions.

I would be perfectly happy (even happier, because it is less typing) saying:

    student.age = 21

rather than

    set the age of student to 21

and

    thisStudent.age + thatStudent.age

rather than

    (the age of this student) + (the age of that student)

doug


From dsc at swcp.com  Mon Feb  9 19:52:06 2004
From: dsc at swcp.com (Dar Scott)
Date: Mon, 9 Feb 2004 17:52:06 -0700
Subject: Is Transcript's English orientation a plus or minus?
In-Reply-To: <BC4E584C.26146%doug@webcrossing.com>
Message-ID: <5949DAB8-5B63-11D8-A51E-000A9567A3E6@swcp.com>


On Monday, February 9, 2004, at 05:43 PM, Doug Lerner wrote:

>     thisStudent.age + thatStudent.age

thisStudent["age"] + thatStudent["age"]

...is admittedly 6 characters over yours.

Dar Scott


From 3mcgrath at adelphia.net  Mon Feb  9 19:54:39 2004
From: 3mcgrath at adelphia.net (Thomas McGrath III)
Date: Mon, 9 Feb 2004 19:54:39 -0500
Subject: OS X Standalone Prog Folder Problem?
In-Reply-To: <p06020405bc4db8942281@[192.168.181.4]>
References: <p06020400bc4d7dad53c7@[192.168.181.1]>
	<2A5E26FA-5B2E-11D8-ADC1-000A95DA60FA@adelphia.net>
	<p06020405bc4db8942281@[192.168.181.4]>
Message-ID: <B4C1AB58-5B63-11D8-ADC1-000A95DA60FA@adelphia.net>

You may be right about that. I don't know why it does that. I use a 
fixdefaultfolder when I run in the ide so it more matches the final 
state it will be in instead of through REV file path. THis works for 
me.

OH well

TOm

On Feb 9, 2004, at 5:27 PM, Peter Reid wrote:

> Hmmm.  Thanks for the thought, but why does it WORK inside the 
> development environment under OS X?  I would have thought that it 
> would fail BOTH as a standalone AND in the development environment 
> under OS X??  My folder structure is:
>
>    Standalone App
>    support folder
>       support files
>
> I've used this approach for ages, including with projects using 
> earlier versions (v1.1.1) of RunRev under OS X, and not had this 
> problem before.  It seems as though something has changed or there is 
> a bug?!
>
>> Just a thought, My classic apps have a data folder with the .rev file 
>> in it. Could that be where your file path starts? If so it is one 
>> level deeper than your OSX app. I had a similar problem with an 
>> autorun win cd and ended up having to put the media at the root level 
>> for OS9 and OSX but also have it available one level deep for the win 
>> file. In future projects I will know this and always put my media at 
>> least one level deep in separate folders. i.e.:
>>
>> <snip>
>>
>> Tom
>>
>> On Feb 9, 2004, at 1:15 PM, Peter Reid wrote:
>>
>>> I'm using Rev 2.1.2 under Mac OS X 10.3.2 to build an app.  If I run 
>>> the app inside the development environment, or as a standalone 
>>> Classic app, then it works fine.  However, if I run the OS X app 
>>> built at the same time, then it fails to locate the support folder 
>>> and files in the same folder as the app.
>>>
>>> Any suggestions please, this was meant to be a "quick" rehosting as 
>>> part of a general upgrade from Mac OS 9 to Mac OS X, but currently 
>>> my client will have to run the app in Classic mode as the OS X 
>>> version doesn't work!
>>
>> Thomas J. McGrath III
>
> -- 
> Peter Reid
> Reid-IT Limited, Loughborough, Leics., UK
> Tel: +44 (0)1509 268843 Fax: +44 (0)8700 527576
> E-mail: preid at reidit.co.uk
>         preid at reidit.demon.co.uk
>         peter.reidit at ntlworld.com
> Web: http://www.reidit.co.uk
>      http://www.reidit.demon.co.uk
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>
>

Thomas J. McGrath III
SCS
1000 Killarney Dr.
Pittsburgh, PA 15234
412-885-8541


From pixelbird at interisland.net  Mon Feb  9 20:00:09 2004
From: pixelbird at interisland.net (Ken Norris)
Date: Mon, 09 Feb 2004 17:00:09 -0800
Subject: REV and multimedia
In-Reply-To: <20040210003125.597B69301D9@mail.runrev.com>
Message-ID: <BC4D6D19.4E2D%pixelbird@interisland.net>

> Date: Mon, 9 Feb 2004 16:58:39 -0700
> From: Alex Rice <alex at mindlube.com>
> Subject: Re: REV and multimedia

> (but Apple is always trying to sell you Quicktime PRO which is ~ $30)
------------
And worth every penny IMHO. It's very handy. There are a _lot_ of little
things you can do with it that make it worth having.

Ken N.


From mpetrides at earthlink.net  Mon Feb  9 20:02:36 2004
From: mpetrides at earthlink.net (Marian Petrides)
Date: Mon, 9 Feb 2004 20:02:36 -0500
Subject: Rev 1.1.1 can'd find Windows engine????
In-Reply-To: <B4C1AB58-5B63-11D8-ADC1-000A95DA60FA@adelphia.net>
References: <p06020400bc4d7dad53c7@[192.168.181.1]>
	<2A5E26FA-5B2E-11D8-ADC1-000A95DA60FA@adelphia.net>
	<p06020405bc4db8942281@[192.168.181.4]>
	<B4C1AB58-5B63-11D8-ADC1-000A95DA60FA@adelphia.net>
Message-ID: <D0A6A9CB-5B64-11D8-9FFA-000A959D005E@earthlink.net>

> HELLLLPPPPPP!   I am trying to build a Windows distribution of a stack 
> created in Mac OS X version of Rev 1.1.1.  I previously downloaded the 
> windows engine but apparently Rev can't find it.  When Rev tries to 
> download it, the download proceeds to almost the end and then 
> generates a download error.

How do I get the Windows engine for Rev 1.1.1?   Why doesn't Rev 
recognize the previously downloaded engine?  Am I going to have to 
build the distribution on a Windows machine--or will that even work??

Thanks.

Marian
(I've gotten this to work in the past but don't know what I am doing 
wrong now.)


From ambassador at fourthworld.com  Mon Feb  9 20:05:34 2004
From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin)
Date: Mon, 09 Feb 2004 17:05:34 -0800
Subject: mission critical apps
In-Reply-To: <47F5FC2E-5B5F-11D8-A048-000393C4760A@mindlube.com>
Message-ID: <BC4D6E5E.3D0B3%ambassador@fourthworld.com>

Alex Rice wrote:

>> What specifically is needed, and what are the challenges of building
>> it?
...
> Brian:
> Developers that use CVS, Subversion etc. often use it on solo projects
> as well! It's very empowering to be able to "turn back the clock" on
> all or part of your code. IBM Visual Age for Java which has a
> "repository" where project code could be freeze-dried, versioned, and
> saved for later use or inspection. Good stuff, even working solo.

Brian's never seen Chipp's versioning auto-saver?

> Richard:
> If there were a version-control plugin for runrevI would surely be a
> customer! I believe some ideas have been kicked around on-list for
> mapping Rev stacks into a version control system. Some hurdles one
> would be looking at are:
> 
> - lack of specific hooks in IDE for controlling the script editor, the
> application browser, and property inspector.

What can't be hooked ? It's all exposed.  It can be useful to automate code
changes so you can maintain an updater utility to run those after
downloading a fresh Rev.  I used to do some of this in a utility called
"FixMC" which wormed its way through portions of the IDE to touch up some
appearance and behavior issues.

Once you've idntified the specific hooks you need and how they should work I
imagine RunRev would jump at the chance to put those hooks directly in the
product.

> - background groups - are they placed or not placed? How many cards are
> they placed on? I found trying to envision a stack as a filesystem
> hierarchy then background groups get confusing.

Then find another mental model. :)

Seriously, this comes up in HyperRESEARCH all the time. Some concepts defy
tradtional hierachies.

But shared backgrounds are useful objects, so there must be some way to map
it into a database and it seem worth doing.


> - proprietary binary stack format - depending on perspective it may be
> a non-issue because we need to have version control from within the IDE
> not from the filesystem.

Proprieary schmoprietary. :)  Everything can be atomized, disassembled,
reassembled at will.  Design how you want it to work and there are plenty of
people who can help figure out the implementation.

Running in the IDE yes, but it needn't reside in the IDE stackfiles. It
could be done as a plugin.

The IDE is exposed, so in the rare cases where you might want to modify it
you could.  But you could probably do all you need from a plugin with just
backscripts and frontscripts without requiring direct modification.

Then again, if you come up with a good system that could be even better if
more deeply integrated in the IDE I can't imagine the folks at RunRev
turning you down.

My point is that it's all quite doable.  It should be possible to come up
with a useful collaborative system for general development in less time than
you'd save working with it.

A number of others here have expressed a similar interest. If an open source
team was established to create such a system it may attract all the
resources needed to do a good job and have fun doing it.

-- 
 Richard Gaskin 
 Fourth World Media Corporation
 ___________________________________________________________
 Ambassador at FourthWorld.com       http://www.FourthWorld.com


From frank at backtalk.com  Mon Feb  9 20:08:02 2004
From: frank at backtalk.com (Frank Leahy)
Date: Tue, 10 Feb 2004 01:08:02 +0000
Subject: Is Transcript's English orientation a plus or minus? 
In-Reply-To: <20040210003125.73A2F9301DB@mail.runrev.com>
Message-ID: <93173136-5B65-11D8-B678-000A9580FCCE@backtalk.com>


On Tuesday, February 10, 2004, at 12:31  AM, 
use-revolution-request at lists.runrev.com wrote:

> On Mon, 9 Feb 2004, Frank Leahy wrote:
>>
>> Disagreeing right back at you.  If you want professionals to use Rev,
>> then you need standard assignment statement syntax -- without them
>> Revolution looks like a hobbyist language rather than a real working
>> language ("oh, it's just HyperTalk, and we all know that wasn't a
>> 'real' language/development environment")  And since it's perfectly
>> possible to support "x = 1" without affecting the current "put" and
>> "set" statements, I would argue that they should consider adding it.
>
> If Transcript were to look just like C et al, what would be its
> comparative advantage??
>
> Show of hands:  Who wants Rev to be as user-friendly as C?
>
> Judy

Judy,

You are about the 15th person who didn't read what I wrote (I'm picking 
on you because your message is so short and succinct, thanks).

I suggested ADDING an assignment operator syntax that is commonly used 
in essentially every other modern computer language, and that has its 
basis in mathematical notation.  I didn't say GET RID OF the current 
"put" syntax or GET RID OF any other xTalk construct -- I said ADD 
support for "x = 1" as AN ALTERNATIVE to "put" -- you get to decide 
which you use.  (And BTW, if you've ever written a parser you know that 
adding support for this is trivial, and it will have zero impact on 
runtime performance.)

Now, for those who have forgotten why I suggested this in the first 
place, it was in response to comments about how professional or 
un-professional RR appears to those taking a look at it for the first 
time.  Having "put" as the sole assignment syntax means, IMHO, that 
people looking at RR think it's more like HyperCard than less like 
HyperCard, when in fact it's a lot less like HyperCard.

There is one other good reason why this syntax should be supported, 
because it's a really big pain in the a-- to port algorithms written in 
other languages to RR.  I'm porting some code that parses the JPEG EXIF 
header, and I have to rewrite every frickin' statement from "x += y + 
2" to "put x + y + 2 into x".

But let's stop this discussion, ok?  No one from RR has piped up to 
suggest that they're even considering such a change, so the discussion 
is moot.

And my bet still stands -- I'm willing to bet $20 that the code to 
parse "x = 1" is already in place, but commented out in the RR engine 
for historical reasons.

-- Frank


From doug at webcrossing.com  Mon Feb  9 20:08:15 2004
From: doug at webcrossing.com (Doug Lerner)
Date: Tue, 10 Feb 2004 10:08:15 +0900
Subject: Is Transcript's English orientation a plus or minus?
In-Reply-To: <5949DAB8-5B63-11D8-A51E-000A9567A3E6@swcp.com>
Message-ID: <BC4E5E0F.2615F%doug@webcrossing.com>

On 2/10/04 9:52 AM, "Dar Scott" <dsc at swcp.com> wrote:

> 
> On Monday, February 9, 2004, at 05:43 PM, Doug Lerner wrote:
> 
>>     thisStudent.age + thatStudent.age
> 
> thisStudent["age"] + thatStudent["age"]
> 
> ...is admittedly 6 characters over yours.

Yes, associative arrays are essentially properties. In JavaScript you could
actually write it either way. Usually the way you wrote it would be used if
the property name itself were a dynamic value.

But what about a similar notation for

    set the hilite of button "thisButton" of card "thisCard" of stack
"thatStack" to true

Something like

    thatStack.thisCard.button:thisButton.hilite = true

might be convenient...

doug


From ambassador at fourthworld.com  Mon Feb  9 20:09:24 2004
From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin)
Date: Mon, 09 Feb 2004 17:09:24 -0800
Subject: Is Transcript's English orientation a plus or minus?
In-Reply-To: <Pine.GSO.4.33.0402091637100.26161-100000@titan.ecs.fullerton.edu>
Message-ID: <BC4D6F44.3D0B3%ambassador@fourthworld.com>

Judy Perry wrote:

> As I've spent a good chunk of time reading some of these, it would seem
> that novice programmers try to 'memorize' indeed, but lack comprehension
> as traditional programming languages involve using the 'black box' model
> of a computer, whereas scripting languages, code reuse and the like
> support actual comprehension because the computer is now a 'clear box' in
> which the programmer's actions are translated into concrete and
> comprehensible outcomes.  This assists transfer.
> 
> Expert programmers engage in pattern-recognition in that they do not need
> to study each line of code and understand it sequentially in debugging but
> rather look for a predictable pattern that is either present or absent and
> which jumps out at them.
> 
> I can supply references if anyone's interested...
> 
> Judy

That was a way cool post.  Yes, links please.  Sounds like good reading.

-- 
 Richard Gaskin 
 Fourth World Media Corporation
 ___________________________________________________________
 Ambassador at FourthWorld.com       http://www.FourthWorld.com


From dsc at swcp.com  Mon Feb  9 20:20:04 2004
From: dsc at swcp.com (Dar Scott)
Date: Mon, 9 Feb 2004 18:20:04 -0700
Subject: Is Transcript's English orientation a plus or minus?
In-Reply-To: <BC4E5E0F.2615F%doug@webcrossing.com>
Message-ID: <41AB1EE2-5B67-11D8-A51E-000A9567A3E6@swcp.com>


On Monday, February 9, 2004, at 06:08 PM, Doug Lerner wrote:

>     thatStack.thisCard.button:thisButton.hilite = true

Most of my object names are multiple words.  Would that be handled like 
this?

      stack:"Blueberry Martians".card:"Surface 
Ambulance".button:"Simulate Roll".hilite = true

Could something like this be done?

      stack:getBestStack().card:savedCard().button:1.hilite = true

Dar Scott


From ambassador at fourthworld.com  Mon Feb  9 20:33:02 2004
From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin)
Date: Mon, 09 Feb 2004 17:33:02 -0800
Subject: Is Transcript's English orientation a plus or minus? 
In-Reply-To: <93173136-5B65-11D8-B678-000A9580FCCE@backtalk.com>
Message-ID: <BC4D74CE.3D0C1%ambassador@fourthworld.com>

Frank Leahy wrote:

> And my bet still stands -- I'm willing to bet $20 that the code to
> parse "x = 1" is already in place, but commented out in the RR engine
> for historical reasons.

You may have just lost $20: "=" is already an operator in Transcript (used
as in Pascal, for comparison).

When cavemen first invented programming languages, the big moment of d'oh!
was after they'd proudly implemted "=" as an assignment operator only to
realize they'd forgotten comparison.  Rather than check their premise, they
went the other direction and required two characters, since all the cool
single-character operators had been used.   So now "equals" means "put" and
"put put" means "equals".

:)

-- 
 Richard Gaskin 
 Fourth World Media Corporation
 ___________________________________________________________
 Ambassador at FourthWorld.com       http://www.FourthWorld.com


From jackass at bestweb.net  Mon Feb  9 20:42:18 2004
From: jackass at bestweb.net (michael)
Date: Mon, 09 Feb 2004 20:42:18 -0500
Subject: REV and multimedia
In-Reply-To: <20040210003125.597B69301D9@mail.runrev.com>
References: <20040210003125.597B69301D9@mail.runrev.com>
Message-ID: <402836FA.5020902@bestweb.net>

http://videolan.org/vlc/
An Alternative- VideoLan plays everything and is 
open-source/cross-platform (including linux).
It is about 9mb. 

From tuviah at runrev.com  Mon Feb  9 20:49:48 2004
From: tuviah at runrev.com (tuviah snyder)
Date: Mon, 9 Feb 2004 20:49:48 -0500
Subject: Is Transcript's English orientation a plus or minus? 
References: <20040210003125.73A2F9301DB@mail.runrev.com>
Message-ID: <000f01c3ef78$2b9a43b0$1602a8c0@USER>

>If Transcript were to look just like C et al, what would be its
>comparative advantage??
>Show of hands:  Who wants Rev to be as user-friendly as C?
maybe this is what they were looking for http://www.softintegration.com/

Tuviah


From dsc at swcp.com  Mon Feb  9 20:59:50 2004
From: dsc at swcp.com (Dar Scott)
Date: Mon, 9 Feb 2004 18:59:50 -0700
Subject: Is Transcript's English orientation a plus or minus? 
In-Reply-To: <BC4D74CE.3D0C1%ambassador@fourthworld.com>
Message-ID: <CFAAC7F0-5B6C-11D8-A51E-000A9567A3E6@swcp.com>


On Monday, February 9, 2004, at 06:33 PM, Richard Gaskin wrote:

> Frank Leahy wrote:
>
>> And my bet still stands -- I'm willing to bet $20 that the code to
>> parse "x = 1" is already in place, but commented out in the RR engine
>> for historical reasons.
>
> You may have just lost $20: "=" is already an operator in Transcript 
> (used
> as in Pascal, for comparison).
>
> When cavemen first invented programming languages, the big moment of 
> d'oh!
> was after they'd proudly implemted "=" as an assignment operator only 
> to
> realize they'd forgotten comparison.

But to be fair, as pointed out, the = can be overloaded here.

In C every statement is an expression, so there is a problem, but in 
context in some similar language, = can mean two things.

Dar Scott



From doug at webcrossing.com  Mon Feb  9 21:00:28 2004
From: doug at webcrossing.com (Doug Lerner)
Date: Tue, 10 Feb 2004 11:00:28 +0900
Subject: Is Transcript's English orientation a plus or minus?
In-Reply-To: <41AB1EE2-5B67-11D8-A51E-000A9567A3E6@swcp.com>
Message-ID: <BC4E6A4C.26175%doug@webcrossing.com>

On 2/10/04 10:20 AM, "Dar Scott" <dsc at swcp.com> wrote:

> 
> On Monday, February 9, 2004, at 06:08 PM, Doug Lerner wrote:
> 
>>     thatStack.thisCard.button:thisButton.hilite = true
> 
> Most of my object names are multiple words.  Would that be handled like
> this?
> 
>     stack:"Blueberry Martians".card:"Surface
> Ambulance".button:"Simulate Roll".hilite = true
> 
> Could something like this be done?
> 
>     stack:getBestStack().card:savedCard().button:1.hilite = true

It's looking more complicated than the current transcript method. :)

doug


From dsc at swcp.com  Mon Feb  9 21:08:10 2004
From: dsc at swcp.com (Dar Scott)
Date: Mon, 9 Feb 2004 19:08:10 -0700
Subject: Is Transcript's English orientation a plus or minus? 
In-Reply-To: <93173136-5B65-11D8-B678-000A9580FCCE@backtalk.com>
Message-ID: <F9D28254-5B6D-11D8-A51E-000A9567A3E6@swcp.com>


On Monday, February 9, 2004, at 06:08 PM, Frank Leahy wrote:

> I said ADD support for "x = 1" as AN ALTERNATIVE to "put" -- you get 
> to decide which you use.

Rats, I'm dragging this on after Frank is trying to bow out.

One of the problems with an alternative is that those reading the 
script do not have the alternative.

If my keyboard could handle it well, I'd rather use math notation much 
like ^ and v for 'and' and 'or'.  And despite my claims that it is 
"standard" math, others might think them pretentious or techy or adding 
complication to the language.

My comment is not so much aimed at Frank's ideas; he is bowing out.  It 
is that the discussion has put some of my thinking in another light.

Maybe this applies to the old single character not-equals, which I 
think is still allowed in Revolution.

Dar Scott


From tuviah at runrev.com  Mon Feb  9 21:09:31 2004
From: tuviah at runrev.com (tuviah snyder)
Date: Mon, 9 Feb 2004 21:09:31 -0500
Subject: Is Transcript's English orientation a plus or minus? 
References: <20040210010859.8513893044D@mail.runrev.com>
Message-ID: <002901c3ef7a$ec8a6fd0$1602a8c0@USER>

>(And BTW, if you've ever written a parser you know that
>adding support for this is trivial, and it will have zero impact on
>runtime performance.)
Then why not support JavaScript as an additional syntax to XTalk, at least
that way it will be consistant. It's not all that difficult either
http://www.mozilla.org/js/spidermonkey/

OSA supports multiple languages, so does .NET, and HyperCard used to support
Applescript. It is the framework, the easy way that you can write an app in
a few minutes with a familier easy to use visual object model that matters
like Doug said.

These languages are just tools and some people find some tools easier than
others. Personally I would rather support JavaScript and call it JavaScript
then impact the readability of the XTalk language for others. AFAIK
Macromedia didn't scrap lingo but added support for Javascript.

There are many things that can be added to improve the transcript language
and I'm all for it but prefer to discuss on the improve-list or a list set
up like the old XTalk list.

Tuviah


From tuviah at runrev.com  Mon Feb  9 21:16:21 2004
From: tuviah at runrev.com (tuviah snyder)
Date: Mon, 9 Feb 2004 21:16:21 -0500
Subject: Is Transcript's English orientation a plus or minus? 
References: <20040210010859.8513893044D@mail.runrev.com>
Message-ID: <003601c3ef7b$e117b8f0$1602a8c0@USER>

>And my bet still stands -- I'm willing to bet $20 that the code to
>parse "x = 1" is already in place, but commented out in the RR engine
>for historical reasons.
You can email me offlist to arrange payment:-)

The problem with x = 1, is that it breaks a main rule in xtalk in that every
statement starts with a command/verb (GET,SET,PUT).

Tuviah


From mpetrides at earthlink.net  Mon Feb  9 21:35:56 2004
From: mpetrides at earthlink.net (Marian Petrides)
Date: Mon, 9 Feb 2004 21:35:56 -0500
Subject: Application Browse questions
In-Reply-To: <D0A6A9CB-5B64-11D8-9FFA-000A959D005E@earthlink.net>
References: <p06020400bc4d7dad53c7@[192.168.181.1]>
	<2A5E26FA-5B2E-11D8-ADC1-000A95DA60FA@adelphia.net>
	<p06020405bc4db8942281@[192.168.181.4]>
	<B4C1AB58-5B63-11D8-ADC1-000A95DA60FA@adelphia.net>
	<D0A6A9CB-5B64-11D8-9FFA-000A959D005E@earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <DA966C9A-5B71-11D8-9FFA-000A959D005E@earthlink.net>

I realize that the Application Browser and Properties displays have 
been streamlined in v 2.1.x  but now I can't find an easy way to do 
some things that were simple in 1.1.1.

Most important is being able to see the location and rectangle of  a 
stack easily.  In 1.1.1 I merely had to double click on the object and 
the properties window had a drop-down which showed both location and 
rectangle.  In 2.1.2, the main properties (basic properties) display 
doesn't have a similar quickie dropdown. If I use the dropdown menu at 
the top and select size & position, I can't display either loc or rect 
for the stack  although I CAN get rectangle for other objects like 
buttons.

Is there a quick way of getting location and rectangle for a stack in 
2.1.2? Or do I must I do it as a script:  put the rect of this stack  ?

Thanks.

Marian


From themacguy at macosx.com  Mon Feb  9 21:40:34 2004
From: themacguy at macosx.com (Barry Levine)
Date: Mon, 9 Feb 2004 19:40:34 -0700
Subject: DragDrop a ".textClipping"?
Message-ID: <803C47AC-5B72-11D8-8F60-000A95763ABC@macosx.com>

Anyone have an idea how to "drag&drop" a textClipping into a Rev stack? 
I've been playing with Klaus Major's example (Thank you, Klaus!) and 
have seen how jpg, txt, rtf, etc. can be dropped into the appropriate 
field or image. The text clipping seems to be ignored. Any guidance 
will be appreciated.

Thanks,
Barry


From chrism at lumin.us  Mon Feb  9 22:13:09 2004
From: chrism at lumin.us (Christopher Mitchell)
Date: Mon, 9 Feb 2004 21:13:09 -0600
Subject: command-2 (previous) and command-3 (next), jumping by 2
In-Reply-To: <a06020418bc4d3d7edf51@[141.89.100.235]>
References: <139B6EC8-593A-11D8-9BA4-000393B64EDC@lumin.us>
	<p06010208bc4ae5a30e68@[10.0.1.3]>
	<E0348274-59FA-11D8-A6DB-000393C4760A@mindlube.com>
	<a06020418bc4d3d7edf51@[141.89.100.235]>
Message-ID: <0D7472E4-5B77-11D8-88ED-000393B64EDC@lumin.us>

Could you point the way to this script for someone who couldn't 
transcript his way out of a wet paper bag (yet)?  I've certainly not 
looked into making editions in the IDE scripts, but if someone else 
debugs this and can kick back a recipe I have no problem following the 
directions.  I can't even look at Rev the next week and a half though 
thanks to a disease called end of quarter research papers and 
presentations.

Yours,
Chris
On Feb 9, 2004, at 7:41 AM, Robert Brenstein wrote:

>> On Feb 7, 2004, at 12:22 PM, Jeanne A. E. DeVoto wrote:
>>
>>> Increasing the delay might work, as a workaround.
>>
>> Oh god. Is this an engine bug or an IDE bug?  Surely "go next" isn't 
>> broken?
>
> cmd-3 etc used to be in a frontscript of IDE (commandkeydown handler 
> if I recall). I haven't looked at the current implementation in Rev 
> but probably it is still the same. My guess is that there is a glitch 
> and the front script handler is called twice but the issue may be 
> elsewhere. This should be easy to verify by replacing the current 
> frontscript with a debug version.
>
> Robert
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>


From revolution at jaedworks.com  Mon Feb  9 22:15:55 2004
From: revolution at jaedworks.com (Jeanne A. E. DeVoto)
Date: Mon, 9 Feb 2004 19:15:55 -0800
Subject: Andy's comments and positioning...
In-Reply-To: <Pine.GSO.4.58.0402091414030.7699@vertex.ucls.uchicago.edu>
References: <20040207052736.EF44A930323@mail.runrev.com>
 <Pine.GSO.4.58.0402091414030.7699@vertex.ucls.uchicago.edu>
Message-ID: <p06010261bc4db73b9e8c@[10.0.1.3]>

At 2:36 PM -0600 2/9/04, Marty Billingsley wrote:
>Another example of the added difficulty: we do a project that
>incorporates music (we create an electronic keyboard) using Shakobox.
>The students have to explicitly start the stack using Shakobox and
>also include an applescript which quits an external application when
>they close the stack.  I'd like to hide this detail from my students;
>right now I put a stack in a central location that they can copy
>from; the stack has the scripts necessary to make Shakobox work, but
>nothing else.  Having the Home stack back would be great; is there
>some way to mimic that in Rev?

I'd use plugins for this. You can load a plugin automatically on 
startup and have its openStack script put the stack script in use - 
that's what I'd do.
-- 
jeanne a. e. devoto ~ jaed at jaedworks.com
http://www.jaedworks.com

From revolution at jaedworks.com  Mon Feb  9 22:13:03 2004
From: revolution at jaedworks.com (Jeanne A. E. DeVoto)
Date: Mon, 9 Feb 2004 19:13:03 -0800
Subject: Transcript and/or ECMA
In-Reply-To: <OFDFCBC1B3.281196B3-ON85256E35.004D9B06@sealedair.com>
References: <OFDFCBC1B3.281196B3-ON85256E35.004D9B06@sealedair.com>
Message-ID: <p06010264bc4dbb0f8445@[10.0.1.3]>

At 9:19 AM -0500 2/9/04, Roger.E.Eller at sealedair.com wrote:
>This brings an idea to mind... If we can "do fld 1 as AppleScript", can we
>not "do fld 2 as JavaScript"? It looks like even if it does work, it is
>only available to Mac users (according to the documentation for the do
>command, regarding alternate languages). This would be great if it were
>expanded to include all platforms.

May not be as easy as it looks, because AppleScript, Javascript, 
Frontier, etc. are provided on the Mac by hooking into Apple's Open 
Scripting Architecture. I don't think there's a similar system 
service on the other platforms.
-- 
jeanne a. e. devoto ~ jaed at jaedworks.com
http://www.jaedworks.com

From revolution at jaedworks.com  Mon Feb  9 22:10:52 2004
From: revolution at jaedworks.com (Jeanne A. E. DeVoto)
Date: Mon, 9 Feb 2004 19:10:52 -0800
Subject: DragDrop a ".textClipping"?
In-Reply-To: <803C47AC-5B72-11D8-8F60-000A95763ABC@macosx.com>
References: <803C47AC-5B72-11D8-8F60-000A95763ABC@macosx.com>
Message-ID: <p060102cbbc4dfb1f87fc@[10.0.1.3]>

At 7:40 PM -0700 2/9/04, Barry Levine wrote:
>Anyone have an idea how to "drag&drop" a textClipping into a Rev 
>stack? I've been playing with Klaus Major's example (Thank you, 
>Klaus!) and have seen how jpg, txt, rtf, etc. can be dropped into 
>the appropriate field or image. The text clipping seems to be 
>ignored. Any guidance will be appreciated.

It looks like the text in a text clipping is stored in a resource, so 
you'll need to use the getResource function to pull it out.
-- 
jeanne a. e. devoto ~ jaed at jaedworks.com
http://www.jaedworks.com

From dsc at swcp.com  Mon Feb  9 22:47:36 2004
From: dsc at swcp.com (Dar Scott)
Date: Mon, 9 Feb 2004 20:47:36 -0700
Subject: Transcript and/or ECMA
In-Reply-To: <p06010264bc4dbb0f8445@[10.0.1.3]>
Message-ID: <DDC2193F-5B7B-11D8-A51E-000A9567A3E6@swcp.com>


On Monday, February 9, 2004, at 08:13 PM, Jeanne A. E. DeVoto wrote:

> May not be as easy as it looks, because AppleScript, Javascript, 
> Frontier, etc. are provided on the Mac by hooking into Apple's Open 
> Scripting Architecture. I don't think there's a similar system service 
> on the other platforms.

Anybody know if WSH (Windows Scripting Host) is a similar system 
service?

Dar Scott


From chrism at lumin.us  Mon Feb  9 23:07:30 2004
From: chrism at lumin.us (Christopher Mitchell)
Date: Mon, 9 Feb 2004 22:07:30 -0600
Subject: Andy's comments and positioning...
In-Reply-To: <a05100301bc4d41f4bfb7@[66.52.165.217]>
References: <82B01AB6-5A73-11D8-9A91-000A9580FCCE@backtalk.com>
	<a05100301bc4d41f4bfb7@[66.52.165.217]>
Message-ID: <A57B016C-5B7E-11D8-88ED-000393B64EDC@lumin.us>

That seems to have been the attitude starting day one of my first uni 
CS class, and among all the self-taught programmers of a variety of 
that paradigm language.

The argument is, from my best friend the Java and Flash programmer "but 
I could do that in Java" or "That would look better in Flash."

I usually respond to him that I'm cat'ing all the contents of The 
Matrix DVD out to my printer and will mail it to him.  Once he types it 
all in, I hope he enjoys the movie.

I have heard from him and others time and time again "but I can do that 
in [X]" ... He goes to great lengths to learn the newer (much better 
looking) gui toolkits for Java and then he figures since he knows how 
to do it, he doesn't need to look at any other option for making the 
GUI by an easier method.  (one that may have been available in the 
first place).

I am like this too, sometimes, though.  we all are.  Often if I know 
only one way to get somewhere, I will drive that way every time.  
Someone else might know a way that cuts out 10 miles of driving, but 
I'm already comfortable with "my way."  it is for this reason that I 
would stand behind the argument that changing the xTalk/Transcript 
syntax to make it more feasible to C-paradigm programmers is 
inappropriate.  Having Rev installed on my powerbook does not erase GCC 
should I be so inclined...

Yours,
Chris

On Feb 9, 2004, at 8:02 AM, Rob Cozens wrote:
>
>
> If memory serves, none of these "standard" statements would pass a 
> FORTRAN, COBOL, PL/1, Pascal, or Modula compiler or a BASIC 
> interpreter.
>
> Must C syntax prevail for a language to be non-"beginner-ish"?


From dvk at dvkconsult.com.au  Mon Feb  9 23:16:00 2004
From: dvk at dvkconsult.com.au (David Vaughan)
Date: Tue, 10 Feb 2004 15:16:00 +1100
Subject: Is Transcript's English orientation a plus or minus? 
In-Reply-To: <20040210031357.07A91930182@mail.runrev.com>
References: <20040210031357.07A91930182@mail.runrev.com>
Message-ID: <D54E7120-5B7F-11D8-B909-000A95729266@dvkconsult.com.au>


On 10/02/2004, at 14:13, Dar Scott <dsc at swcp.com> wrote:

>
> Maybe this applies to the old single character not-equals, which I 
> think is still allowed in Revolution.

It is allowed on Mac but if you write that code it will fail when you 
try to distribute to Win, as I discovered. The distribution is 
apparently built successfully but the code does not work. I used to 
think ? [that was the mac single-character not-equals for other users] 
was cute but now I write only "<>".

regards
David
>
> Dar Scott


From mwieder at ahsoftware.net  Mon Feb  9 23:36:33 2004
From: mwieder at ahsoftware.net (Mark Wieder)
Date: Mon, 9 Feb 2004 20:36:33 -0800
Subject: Is Transcript's English orientation a plus or minus?
In-Reply-To: <CFAAC7F0-5B6C-11D8-A51E-000A9567A3E6@swcp.com>
References: <CFAAC7F0-5B6C-11D8-A51E-000A9567A3E6@swcp.com>
Message-ID: <15430362468.20040209203633@ahsoftware.net>

As Dar points out here, the "=" operator can easily be overloaded. The
reason that C implements the "==" operator for comparisons is because
C also lets you do something pretty screwy with assignments:

if (c==12) is a comparison between c and 12
if (c=12) assigns 12 to c and then takes the result of the assignment

When C programmers really want to get obscure they will code something
like

if (c = getvalue() == getstring())

As long as this syntax isn't allowed in Transcript, then there
shouldn't be a problem with supporting both

put 12 into c
and
c = 12

-- 
-Mark Wieder
 mwieder at ahsoftware.net


From shedrup at ms9.hinet.net  Tue Feb 10 01:13:00 2004
From: shedrup at ms9.hinet.net (Friedrich F. Grohmann)
Date: Tue, 10 Feb 2004 14:13:00 +0800
Subject: crash rash
Message-ID: <200402100611.OAA09895@msr52.hinet.net>

Chipp,  

     Thanks for your suggestion which made me aware of a possible source 
of my troubles. I tried it yet, alas, it doesn't work in my case. Somehow 
I have to assume that Rev is having serious problems with Chinese. I had 
situations were I changed the font size in a field and then "undo" -the 
application quits; add a character in a field or select the text from a 
certain point to the end and try to cut it -I had to fore quit; etc. etc. 
 Fortunately, one begins to gain painful experiences. It seems, for 
example, that one has to add a hard break within the text before the 
point up to which one wants to delete text in order to avoid crashes...

     But then, things are happening not necessarily in perfectly regular 
manner and not every crash case can be traced back to Chinese text in 
fields only. Let's say I open Rev, go to my file via the menu, save as 
and then touch the menubar -unexpected quit. What I am forced to do now 
is to copy the file in the folder and then rename it before opening it. 
At least it will save me the troubles of quitting or force quitting but I 
can hardly imagine that this is the way Rev is supposed to function.

Fritz


>Subject:     RE: crash rash
>Date:        8.2.2004 13:01 Uhr
>Received:    8.2.2004 15:24 Uhr
>From:        Chipp Walters, chipp at chipp.com
>
>Fritz,
>
>try in the msg:
>
>set the breakpoints to empty
>
>and see if it doens't fix your problem. I had a similar problem on XP and
>traced it to the above.
>
>-Chipp
>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> Sent: Saturday, February 07, 2004 1:57 PM
>> To: How to use Revolution
>> Subject: crash rash
>>
>>
>> I am working with Rev 2.1.2 on a PowerPC G4 with OS 10.3.2 . Recently,
>> Rev has been crashing with great regularity. After saving and closing the
>> application I am developing, a mere touch at the menubar will, before I
>> can pull down any menu, lead either to an "unexpected" quit or the
>> rainbow wheel.
>>
>> Rev crashed the first time when Chinese text in fields went berserk.
>> Though it  seems I've managed to circumvent similar episodes by now, the
>> present frequency  of crashes makes me wonder whether nothing more
>> fundamental is going wrong. Any help appreciated.
>>
>> Fritz

From alex at mindlube.com  Tue Feb 10 01:32:34 2004
From: alex at mindlube.com (Alex Rice)
Date: Mon, 9 Feb 2004 23:32:34 -0700
Subject: version control system (was mission critical apps)
In-Reply-To: <BC4D6E5E.3D0B3%ambassador@fourthworld.com>
References: <BC4D6E5E.3D0B3%ambassador@fourthworld.com>
Message-ID: <E9573E9A-5B92-11D8-A048-000393C4760A@mindlube.com>


On Feb 9, 2004, at 6:05 PM, Richard Gaskin wrote:

> Brian's never seen Chipp's versioning auto-saver?

Chipp's revArchive stack is a smart version of File menu | Save As. 
Better than nothing, but it is definitely not a VC system.

> What can't be hooked ? It's all exposed.

The Linux kernel is completely exposed too. Does that mean I want to go 
rewriting device drivers? No. (Admittedly there is a greater 
possibility of me ever understanding the runrev IDE than some Linux 
kernel code)

I wrote a runrev plugin for using an external script editor. I had to 
do some weird stuff to get it to work, and I'm still clueless what some 
of the messages I'm handling are actually are intended to do in the 
IDE. It was a lot of guesswork.

Writing a version control plugin would be much tougher - and probably 
can't be done with only the Plugin API.

Every time I start looking inside the Runrev IDE, I get this uneasy 
feeling. The best I can describe it is like coming to a a door that's 
closed, but not locked. You peek inside but you aren't sure whether you 
really belong in there.

>> - background groups - are they placed or not placed? How many cards 
>> are
>> they placed on? I found trying to envision a stack as a filesystem
>> hierarchy then background groups get confusing.
>
> Then find another mental model. :)

If one were using a filesystem representation, then it's probably an 
external requirement (i.e. not self-imposed) because the connected VC 
system uses a filesystem. A VC being for example Subversion, the newer 
CVS like system. Most VC systems are based on files and filesystems.

But in a 100% transcript model then you could throw out the filesystem 
representation then I'm sure background groups would be easier to deal 
with.

> But shared backgrounds are useful objects, so there must be some way 
> to map
> it into a database and it seem worth doing.

Definitely

> A number of others here have expressed a similar interest. If an open 
> source
> team was established to create such a system it may attract all the
> resources needed to do a good job and have fun doing it.

Aye.

--
Alex Rice | Mindlube Software | http://mindlube.com


From scott at tactilemedia.com  Tue Feb 10 02:33:28 2004
From: scott at tactilemedia.com (Scott Rossi)
Date: Mon, 09 Feb 2004 23:33:28 -0800
Subject: mission critical apps
In-Reply-To: <BC4D6E5E.3D0B3%ambassador@fourthworld.com>
Message-ID: <BC4DC948.9E47%scott@tactilemedia.com>

> If there were a version-control plugin for runrevI would surely be a
> customer!

I have a simple model I developed for managing stack files on a server.  It
could probably be extended to manage items down to the object/script level.
But my solution is exclusive to one user at a time: stacks are marked as
either "available" (checked in) or they're not (checked out).

For a VC system, I'm unclear on whether you allow multiple people to edit
the same object at the same time.  If yes, how do you account for the
revisions being posted for the same object by different developers?  If Judy
and John want to check out/edit the script of btn A, and both provide
*different* script options, how do you determine the version for each edit,
especially if the scripts are then re-edited later?  What would the desired
behavior be here?

Regards,

Scott Rossi
Creative Director
Tactile Media, Development & Design
-----
E: scott at tactilemedia.com
W: http://www.tactilemedia.com


From preid at reidit.demon.co.uk  Mon Feb  9 18:28:24 2004
From: preid at reidit.demon.co.uk (Peter Reid)
Date: Mon, 9 Feb 2004 23:28:24 +0000
Subject: OS X Standalone Prog Folder Problem?
In-Reply-To: <a05100314bc4d75e0f2bb@[66.52.165.159]>
References: <p06020400bc4d7dad53c7@[192.168.181.1]>
 <a05100314bc4d75e0f2bb@[66.52.165.159]>
Message-ID: <p06020406bc4dc71d8a96@[192.168.181.4]>

Hi Rob

Thanks for the tip, that's sorted the problem!  I've now put this 
together into a single handler that returns both the program path and 
the application name:

on getProgPath @thePath, @theFileName
   set the itemDelimiter to "."
   put (the platform is "MacOS" and item 1 of the systemVersion >= 10) 
into itsOSX
   put the filename of this stack into thePath
   set itemDelimiter to "/"
   if "Mac" is in the platform and itsOSX and \
     the environment is not "development" then
     delete item -3 to -1 of thePath
   end if
   put last item of thePath into theFileName
   delete last item of thePath
   put "/" after thePath
end getProgPath

Just in case anyone else has the same problem and wants a "potted" solution!

>>I'm using Rev 2.1.2 under Mac OS X 10.3.2 to build an app.  If I 
>>run the app inside the development environment, or as a standalone 
>>Classic app, then it works fine.  However, if I run the OS X app 
>>built at the same time, then it fails to locate the support folder 
>>and files in the same folder as the app.
>
>Hi Peter,
>
>Welcome to the wonderful world of Mac OS X application bundles.
>
>Control click on your OS X stabdalone + select "Package Contents" 
>reveals a folder, "Contents"
>
>Inside "Contents" are:
>	Info.plist
>	pbdevelopment.plist
>	Pkginfo
>	A folder, "Resources", containing--
>		Revolution.rsrc
>		RevolutionDoc.icns
>		Revolution.icons
>	A folder, "Mac OS", containing--
>		Revolution [your standalone]
>
>So if your standalone on other platforms expects to find the support 
>folder in the same folder in which the standalone resides, your 
>folder must be in the Mac OS folder on OS X.
>
>I deal with this by using a generalized search handler that looks 
>for support folders in both locations...among others.
>--
>
>Rob Cozens

-- 
Peter Reid
Reid-IT Limited, Loughborough, Leics., UK
Tel: +44 (0)1509 268843 Fax: +44 (0)8700 527576
E-mail: preid at reidit.co.uk
         preid at reidit.demon.co.uk
         peter.reidit at ntlworld.com
Web: http://www.reidit.co.uk
      http://www.reidit.demon.co.uk

From erikhans08 at yahoo.com  Tue Feb 10 02:52:19 2004
From: erikhans08 at yahoo.com (erik hansen)
Date: Mon, 9 Feb 2004 23:52:19 -0800 (PST)
Subject: MidiBuilder
In-Reply-To: <330B476B-EC48-11D7-8498-0003937052EC@snet.net>
Message-ID: <20040210075219.50985.qmail@web61108.mail.yahoo.com>


hello Kurt,

i am just getting into MIDIBuilder!
works beautifully on a G4 osx QT 6.x setup.
the first xTalk generated tones in a few years.

gMeventLen has me intrigued.
i am going to have to write a translation
from the old HyperText method of showing
time, 60q 61e etc. to your approach in order
to play my things.

is there a rationale behind the way you
represent duration?

Erik Hansen

=====
erik at erikhansen.org    http://www.erikhansen.org

__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Finance: Get your refund fast by filing online.
http://taxes.yahoo.com/filing.html

From pixelbird at interisland.net  Tue Feb 10 03:17:16 2004
From: pixelbird at interisland.net (Ken Norris)
Date: Tue, 10 Feb 2004 00:17:16 -0800
Subject: Silly question
In-Reply-To: <20040209134728.C902F930301@mail.runrev.com>
Message-ID: <BC4DD38C.4E48%pixelbird@interisland.net>

Hi,

Why can't I open a substack?

open stack "Help 1 Con" -- name of the stack

... from the message box returns "can't find card".

TIA,
Ken N.



From pixelbird at interisland.net  Tue Feb 10 03:30:09 2004
From: pixelbird at interisland.net (Ken Norris)
Date: Tue, 10 Feb 2004 00:30:09 -0800
Subject: Silly question
In-Reply-To: <20040209134728.C902F930301@mail.runrev.com>
Message-ID: <BC4DD691.4E49%pixelbird@interisland.net>

OOPS,

> ... from the message box returns "can't find card".

should be "No such card."

Ken N.


From briany at qldlearning.com  Tue Feb 10 03:50:05 2004
From: briany at qldlearning.com (Brian Yennie)
Date: Tue, 10 Feb 2004 03:50:05 -0500
Subject: mission critical apps
In-Reply-To: <BC4DC948.9E47%scott@tactilemedia.com>
Message-ID: <1F38BA53-5BA6-11D8-A5DB-000393AA08D2@qldlearning.com>

For the most part, this is _the_ icky part about version control.

When it comes to CVS, it will attempt to merge their changes, using 
some sort of line-by-line analysis of their code. If they each 
manipulated different functions, for example, they are in the clear. If 
their changes overlap, they end up having to reconcile, they curse each 
other out, and learn to do a better job of checkin / checkout. There 
are a bunch of options in different systems, but in the end none of 
them replace good project management, and nothing can do a magical 
merge.

Your system worked down to an object/script level might not be all that 
far away from rudimentary CVS.

99% of VC is more intimidating than complicated, IMO.

If nothing else, if one of the goals here (which I'm on the fence 
about, actually) is to win over the enterprise / "professional" market, 
adding a per-object / per-script versioning tool natively into the IDE 
might impress a few people.

Is there any RAD tool out there that does version control now???

- Brian

> For a VC system, I'm unclear on whether you allow multiple people to 
> edit
> the same object at the same time.  If yes, how do you account for the
> revisions being posted for the same object by different developers?  
> If Judy
> and John want to check out/edit the script of btn A, and both provide
> *different* script options, how do you determine the version for each 
> edit,
> especially if the scripts are then re-edited later?  What would the 
> desired
> behavior be here?


From briany at qldlearning.com  Tue Feb 10 04:05:36 2004
From: briany at qldlearning.com (Brian Yennie)
Date: Tue, 10 Feb 2004 04:05:36 -0500
Subject: version control system
In-Reply-To: <E9573E9A-5B92-11D8-A048-000393C4760A@mindlube.com>
Message-ID: <4A4CAEFB-5BA8-11D8-A5DB-000393AA08D2@qldlearning.com>

> If one were using a filesystem representation, then it's probably an 
> external requirement (i.e. not self-imposed) because the connected VC 
> system uses a filesystem. A VC being for example Subversion, the newer 
> CVS like system. Most VC systems are based on files and filesystems.

Yep.

> But in a 100% transcript model then you could throw out the filesystem 
> representation then I'm sure background groups would be easier to deal 
> with.

FWIW, I don't see background groups as such a big deal.
For example, you could:

1) Stick them under the "stack" folder.
2) Store as a property all of the cards they belong to (for regular 
groups, just 1 card)
3) Whenever someone asks to check out a card, expand the underlying 
CVS/Subversion command to also check-out the groups on that card.

Ditto for the objects in the group.

Granted, it doesn't make for a very nice _looking_ filesystem 
representation, but I assume you would never see any of this since a 
Rev GUI would sit on top of it.

- Brian


From briany at qldlearning.com  Tue Feb 10 04:09:22 2004
From: briany at qldlearning.com (Brian Yennie)
Date: Tue, 10 Feb 2004 04:09:22 -0500
Subject: version control system
In-Reply-To: <E9573E9A-5B92-11D8-A048-000393C4760A@mindlube.com>
Message-ID: <D1050864-5BA8-11D8-A5DB-000393AA08D2@qldlearning.com>

Q: Does anyone here have the resources and know-how to provide a simple 
CVS pserver with an empty repository?

If so, I might be inclined to get the ball rolling in Rev's finest 
manner: prototyping =).

- Brian



From revolution at jaedworks.com  Tue Feb 10 01:00:21 2004
From: revolution at jaedworks.com (Jeanne A. E. DeVoto)
Date: Mon, 9 Feb 2004 22:00:21 -0800
Subject: command-2 (previous) and command-3 (next), jumping by 2
In-Reply-To: <0D7472E4-5B77-11D8-88ED-000393B64EDC@lumin.us>
References: <139B6EC8-593A-11D8-9BA4-000393B64EDC@lumin.us>
 <p06010208bc4ae5a30e68@[10.0.1.3]>
 <E0348274-59FA-11D8-A6DB-000393C4760A@mindlube.com>
 <a06020418bc4d3d7edf51@[141.89.100.235]>
 <0D7472E4-5B77-11D8-88ED-000393B64EDC@lumin.us>
Message-ID: <p060102ffbc4e21b116be@[10.0.1.3]>

At 9:13 PM -0600 2/9/04, Christopher Mitchell wrote:
>On Feb 9, 2004, at 7:41 AM, Robert Brenstein wrote:
>
>>>On Feb 7, 2004, at 12:22 PM, Jeanne A. E. DeVoto wrote:
>>>
>>>>Increasing the delay might work, as a workaround.
>>
>>cmd-3 etc used to be in a frontscript of IDE (commandkeydown 
>>handler if I recall). I haven't looked at the current 
>>implementation in Rev but probably it is still the same. My guess 
>>is that there is a glitch and the front script handler is called 
>>twice but the issue may be elsewhere. This should be easy to verify 
>>by replacing the current frontscript with a debug version.

>Could you point the way to this script for someone who couldn't 
>transcript his way out of a wet paper bag (yet)?  I've certainly not 
>looked into making editions in the IDE scripts, but if someone else 
>debugs this and can kick back a recipe I have no problem following 
>the directions.

I'm not seeing a commandKeyDown handler in any of the IDE's frontscripts.

You can increase the delay and see whether that helps by doing this:

1. In the message box, type
      edit script of menu "View"

2. In the script, look for the line
     case "Go Prev"
(It's about a fifth of the way down.) The next line contains an 
expression that ends in "< 20". Replace the 20 with a larger number 
(try 50).

3. The next case is "Go Next". The line after this contains a similar 
expression; replace the number 20 with a larger number, as above.

4. Click Apply, then close the script.

5. In the message box, type
       save stack "revmenubar.rev"

(Of course, it's a good idea to copy your Rev folder and work on a 
copy, in case something goes wrong - it will save you from having to 
re-download if that happens.)
-- 
jeanne a. e. devoto ~ jaed at jaedworks.com
http://www.jaedworks.com

From xbury.cs at clearstream.com  Tue Feb 10 04:49:51 2004
From: xbury.cs at clearstream.com (xbury.cs at clearstream.com)
Date: Tue, 10 Feb 2004 10:49:51 +0100
Subject: Silly question
Message-ID: <OFE8AB8A22.7C6F35DA-ONC1256E36.0035F0F7-C1256E36.00360199@deutsche-boerse.de>

open stack "child" of stack "parent"

assuming there is a stack child, it should work.

---------------------=---------------------
Xavier Bury
Clearstream Services
TNS NT LAN Server
ext 36465
Voice: +352 4656 43 6465
Fax: +352 4656 493 6465




Ken Norris <pixelbird at interisland.net>
Sent by: use-revolution-bounces at lists.runrev.com
10/02/04 09:30
Please respond to How to use Revolution

 
        To:     <use-revolution at lists.runrev.com>
        cc: 
        Subject:        Re: Silly question

.


OOPS,

> ... from the message box returns "can't find card".

should be "No such card."

Ken N.

_______________________________________________
use-revolution mailing list
use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution




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From psahores at easynet.fr  Tue Feb 10 07:03:35 2004
From: psahores at easynet.fr (Pierre Sahores)
Date: Tue, 10 Feb 2004 13:03:35 +0100
Subject: mission critical apps
In-Reply-To: <BC4D5F19.3D09E%ambassador@fourthworld.com>
References: <BC4D5F19.3D09E%ambassador@fourthworld.com>
Message-ID: <277255FA-5BC1-11D8-A737-000A95665344@easynet.fr>


Le 10 f?vr. 04, ? 01:00, Richard Gaskin a ?crit :

> Brian Yennie wrote:
>
>> I have no idea how I would function on a team xTalk project. Previous
>> threads here have discussed CVS, bug tracking, group projects... and 
>> as
>> far as I can tell all of those things are non-existent. They all make
>> my life many times easier when working in PHP or C, or a host of other
>> languages.
>
> Rev objects can be atomized down to individual properties and scripts, 
> and
> reassembled again in nearly infinite variety.
>
> What specifically is needed, and what are the challenges of building 
> it?

Probablly that, aside using CVS, a possible way could be to clone the 
Java's EJB2 design patterns logic to get it available to build 
"Entreprise-Revolution-Beans" atomic pieces of transcript code.
>
> -- 
>  Richard Gaskin
>  Fourth World Media Corporation
>  ___________________________________________________________
>  Ambassador at FourthWorld.com       http://www.FourthWorld.com
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>
>
Bien cordialement, Pierre Sahores

100, rue de Paris
F - 77140 Nemours

psahores at easynet.fr

GSM:   +33 6 03 95 77 70
Pro:   +33 1 41 60 52 68
Dom:   +33 1 64 45 05 33
Fax:   +33 1 64 45 05 33

Inspection acad?mique de Seine-Saint-Denis
Applications et SGBD ACID SQL (WEB et PGI)
Penser et produire "delta de productivit?"


From ttasovac at princeton.edu  Tue Feb 10 09:26:15 2004
From: ttasovac at princeton.edu (Toma Tasovac)
Date: Tue, 10 Feb 2004 15:26:15 +0100
Subject: inactive (?) sheets, buttons not responding
Message-ID: <154F0E34-5BD5-11D8-BA48-000A95C45C8C@princeton.edu>

I haven't noticed this before, so I am not sure what's going on: I have 
a stack which opens as sheet and has two buttons on it.  Clicking on a 
button does not produce any effect unless one first clicks on the card 
itself, or unless one clicks on the button twice... i.e. the sheet does 
not seem to be active.  Any ideas?

All best,
Toma


From revolution at knowledgeworks.plus.com  Tue Feb 10 09:59:28 2004
From: revolution at knowledgeworks.plus.com (revolution at knowledgeworks.plus.com)
Date: Tue, 10 Feb 2004 14:59:28 +0000
Subject: version control system (was mission critical apps)
Message-ID: <OF1CFCA6CB.BFC249FD-ON80256E36.004F5AEF-80256E36.0052599D@knowledgeworks.plus.com>

Alex wrote:
>>
If one were using a filesystem representation, then it's probably an 
external requirement (i.e. not self-imposed) because the connected VC 
system uses a filesystem. A VC being for example Subversion, the newer 
CVS like system. Most VC systems are based on files and filesystems.

But in a 100% transcript model then you could throw out the filesystem 
representation then I'm sure background groups would be easier to deal 
with.
<<

I think the means to produce this version control system are actually 
within RunRev's grasp - they just don't see it yet :-)  I think there is 
quite widespread agreement on the list that it would be a significant step 
forward for Rev if there was a versioning system.

Geoff Canyon produced a stack called MCRipper that will take a metacard 
stack and convert it into an XML representation of the stack.  This 
representation could be submitted to a version control system.  Once 
inside the VCS, searches could be made on the stack (for example, running 
diff on different versions of the XML-representation of the stack). 
Indeed, one could take this even further and modify the stack as XML, and 
then re-convert ("rip" in Geoff's terms) it back into a stack. (I know 
that there is some kind of hash takes place with the length of a script, 
but that too could be implemented by them.)

I suggested this in July last year, and Alex and I had a brief interchange 
about it.

As there was no interest in it, I was going to see how far I could go with 
this myself.  Geoff's stack is extremely buggy with regard to Rev - I only 
got a license to Metacard last week so that I could try MCRipper in that 
and see if it performed better there. 

The VCS server does not even have to work on the file system model.  It 
could even be written in Rev, and could use sockets to communicate with 
the IDE.  (The file system model is really just a persistent storage that 
fits in with an application development model where code is written in 
editors and stored as text files in a directory - one reason why the 
HyperCard model was so advanced!)  If Rev could persist the versioning to 
stacks, then it is something that could (in principal) be opened up for 
developers to include versioning of data in their own apps i.e. to enable 
users to go back to previous versions of their work saved within the 
stack.

It looks to me that the absence of any ability to use Rev with a VCS is 
going to be an obstacle to it being taken seriously inside any IT 
department of a company.  (This makes me conclude that Pierre Sahores must 
be a man with great persuasive power....)

As my main project for the last twelve months has not involved Rev, I've 
just left this issue on a back burner.  But I'm glad to see it come up on 
the list again.

From rcozens at pon.net  Tue Feb 10 08:48:14 2004
From: rcozens at pon.net (Rob Cozens)
Date: Tue, 10 Feb 2004 06:48:14 -0700
Subject: mission critical apps
In-Reply-To: <D5BEF9C0-5B58-11D8-B909-000A95729266@dvkconsult.com.au>
References: <20040209201935.9003F93023F@mail.runrev.com>
 <D5BEF9C0-5B58-11D8-B909-000A95729266@dvkconsult.com.au>
Message-ID: <a05100301bc4e91428faa@[66.52.165.189]>

>I think Alex's positioning of Rev is fair but in my view not in any 
>respect damaging. Let me put this another way. You could be a 
>programmer in a huge enterprise or in a small business, possibly 
>your own. Where have you chosen to work? Then choose the right tool 
>for what you are doing and don't fret over what you are not doing.

Well put, David.
-- 

Rob Cozens
CCW, Serendipity Software Company
http://www.oenolog.net/who.htm

"And I, which was two fooles, do so grow three;
Who are a little wise, the best fooles bee."

from "The Triple Foole" by John Donne (1572-1631)

From rcozens at pon.net  Tue Feb 10 09:05:06 2004
From: rcozens at pon.net (Rob Cozens)
Date: Tue, 10 Feb 2004 07:05:06 -0700
Subject: Is Transcript's English orientation a plus or minus?
In-Reply-To:  <Pine.GSO.4.33.0402091619370.26161-100000@titan.ecs.fullerton.edu>
References:  <Pine.GSO.4.33.0402091619370.26161-100000@titan.ecs.fullerton.edu>
Message-ID: <a05100302bc4e9271d6ce@[66.52.165.189]>

>  Who wants Rev to be as user-friendly as C?

I'm afraid that's impossible, Judy:  one would have to--

* "dumb down" the Rev Dev UI,

* completely rewrite Transcript to make the syntax as succinct as possible

* "power down" the syntax so it takes half a page of code to 
accomplish what could previously be done in one line

* add support for line end characters (eg: ";") which completely 
change the meaning of a statement when appended to it.

* place programmer's premium on how complicated a command can be 
produced in a minimal token string, preferably incorporating the line 
end character mentioned above & other "C cleverness" to impress one's 
colleagues with the ultimate undecipherable, cryptic statement.

:{`)
-- 

Rob Cozens
CCW, Serendipity Software Company
http://www.oenolog.net/who.htm

"And I, which was two fooles, do so grow three;
Who are a little wise, the best fooles bee."

from "The Triple Foole" by John Donne (1572-1631)

From rcozens at pon.net  Tue Feb 10 09:19:17 2004
From: rcozens at pon.net (Rob Cozens)
Date: Tue, 10 Feb 2004 07:19:17 -0700
Subject: Is Transcript's English orientation a plus or minus?
In-Reply-To: <93173136-5B65-11D8-B678-000A9580FCCE@backtalk.com>
References: <93173136-5B65-11D8-B678-000A9580FCCE@backtalk.com>
Message-ID: <a05100303bc4e96fee8a8@[66.52.165.189]>

>Having "put" as the sole assignment syntax means, IMHO, that people 
>looking at RR think it's more like HyperCard than less like HyperCard

Frank, et al:

My apologies if this is a repost.  I originally sent it at 9 AM 
yesterday, and if it appeared on the list, I missed it:

>>
>Not supporting these standard statements make the language look a 
>bit "beginner-ish"

Frank, et al:

Is there something inherently inferior about a programming 
environment that can be used productively by someone who doesn't have 
a degree in computer science?

Do professional developers feel threatened by the concept of business 
people writing custom software to drive their business without 
employing a programmer to assist or do the job for them?

As a professional with 30 years in the field, I am IMPRESSED that 
people like local MUG HyperCard SIG member, Carl Chaney, could write 
functional work order processing, invoicing, & tax reconciliation 
software for his laser engraving business and a point of sale system 
for his daughter's ice cream parlor in HyperTalk without taking one 
programming course and without even any experience using a 
spreadsheet.  Sure his work looked "beginner-ish"; BUT IT DID THE JOB 
HE WANTED DONE.

Does the fact that Carl Chaney could do that in X-Talk, does that 
mean, a priori, that X-Talk is an inferior development environment?

If programming were illustration and program languages were boxes of 
crayons, my analogy would be:

Give a room full of ordinary people X-Talk crayons, and everyone of 
them will create an illustration.  A ten year old's illustration may 
look less polished than an adult's, which in turn may look less 
polished than a professional illustrator's; but everyone can produce 
something meaningful to them.

Give a room full of ordinary people C crayons, and most won't be able 
to draw a single line.

Which environment is truly "beginner-ish" in terms of software 
development evolution?
-- 

Rob Cozens
CCW, Serendipity Software Company
http://www.oenolog.net/who.htm

"And I, which was two fooles, do so grow three;
Who are a little wise, the best fooles bee."

from "The Triple Foole" by John Donne (1572-1631)

From nnoydb at excite.com  Tue Feb 10 10:33:51 2004
From: nnoydb at excite.com (Kevin)
Date: Tue, 10 Feb 2004 10:33:51 -0500 (EST)
Subject: Array question again.
Message-ID: <20040210153351.13E963CF0@xprdmailfe4.nwk.excite.com>



My question is regarding the underpinnings more than anything else.  If I put empty into a[0] is a[0,1] a[0,2] ... also garb rage collected or must I set each individual element equal to empty to ensure collection?



_______________________________________________
Join Excite! - http://www.excite.com
The most personalized portal on the Web!

From janschenkel at yahoo.com  Tue Feb 10 10:45:29 2004
From: janschenkel at yahoo.com (Jan Schenkel)
Date: Tue, 10 Feb 2004 07:45:29 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Array question again.
In-Reply-To: <20040210153351.13E963CF0@xprdmailfe4.nwk.excite.com>
Message-ID: <20040210154529.80247.qmail@web60508.mail.yahoo.com>

--- Kevin <nnoydb at excite.com> wrote:
> 
> 
> My question is regarding the underpinnings more than
> anything else.  If I put empty into a[0] is a[0,1]
> a[0,2] ... also garb rage collected or must I set
> each individual element equal to empty to ensure
> collection?
> 

Hi Kevin,

You'll have to clear out the individual elements ; if
you want to ensure garbage collection, use the
'delete' command instead of 'put empty into'
Example :
--
  delete local tLocalArray[0,1]
  global gGlobalArray
  delete global gGlobalArray[5,6]
--

Hope this helped,

Jan Schenkel.

=====
"As we grow older, we grow both wiser and more foolish at the same time."  (La Rochefoucauld)

__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Finance: Get your refund fast by filing online.
http://taxes.yahoo.com/filing.html

From jbv.silences at Club-Internet.fr  Tue Feb 10 11:03:58 2004
From: jbv.silences at Club-Internet.fr (jbv)
Date: Tue, 10 Feb 2004 17:03:58 +0100
Subject: Is Transcript's English orientation a plus or minus?
References: <93173136-5B65-11D8-B678-000A9580FCCE@backtalk.com>
	<a05100303bc4e96fee8a8@[66.52.165.189]>
Message-ID: <402900E7.561C1D3E@Club-Internet.fr>



Rob Cozens a *crit :

> Is there something inherently inferior about a programming
> environment that can be used productively by someone who doesn't have
> a degree in computer science?
>
> Do professional developers feel threatened by the concept of business
> people writing custom software to drive their business without
> employing a programmer to assist or do the job for them?
>
> As a professional with 30 years in the field, I am IMPRESSED that
> people like local MUG HyperCard SIG member, Carl Chaney, could write
> functional work order processing, invoicing, & tax reconciliation
> software for his laser engraving business and a point of sale system
> for his daughter's ice cream parlor in HyperTalk without taking one
> programming course and without even any experience using a
> spreadsheet.  Sure his work looked "beginner-ish"; BUT IT DID THE JOB
> HE WANTED DONE.
>
> Does the fact that Carl Chaney could do that in X-Talk, does that
> mean, a priori, that X-Talk is an inferior development environment?

Well, although these are serious questions raising interesting problems,
IMHO
they don't fully cover the topic...

No doubt that HC (and especially the Xtalk syntax) was developped by
Apple
in the same "plug & play" and "user friendly" spirit as the Macintosh.
But having a prog. tool allowing to code in a syntax closed to natural
english
doesn't prevent to learn such concepts as variables (local vs global),
loops,
arrays, functions, handlers, sending messages, passing parameters, etc.
All of those being typical computer science concept. The fact that X-talk

syntax is far less cryptic than C syntax helps a lot in learning those
concepts,
especially because one can focus on the concepts themselves without being

bothered by any cryptic syntax.
But OTOH I've seen several custom projects developped with HC or OMO
by non professional programmers : although these projects did (more or
less)
their work, they were totally awfull from a prof. point of view, mostly
because
it was clear that the above mentioned basic concepts hadn't been totally
understood
by the ppl who developped them, and often they had made choices and
written
code that was totally ridiculous, slow, uselessly complicated...
And if any of these projects had to be maintained or extended by someone
else,
the task was almost impossible, and it would be easier & cheaper to
re-write
everything from scratch.

So the question is rather : to which degree of complexity can a project
be
developped in X-talk by someone without serious computer science bkground
?
To which degree the X-talk syntax isn't only a way to improve
productivity of
ppl with serious computer science knowledge, by allowing them to reach a
greater complexity in their projects in less time and with less lines of
code than,
say, C or Java ?

JB



From janschenkel at yahoo.com  Tue Feb 10 11:25:23 2004
From: janschenkel at yahoo.com (Jan Schenkel)
Date: Tue, 10 Feb 2004 08:25:23 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Array question again.
In-Reply-To: <20040210160056.B85303DAF@xprdmailfe4.nwk.excite.com>
Message-ID: <20040210162523.26454.qmail@web60506.mail.yahoo.com>

--- Kevin <nnoydb at excite.com> wrote:
> 
> 
> Can anyone point me to a document discussing the
> underpinnings of the Transcript interpreter?  Maybe
> it is just me but I am unable to locate this
> information in the help included with the product. 
> In fact many advanced topics are missing.
> 
> Topics I am looking for: 
> 
> Memory Management
>     Force garbage collection 
>     Marking for collection 
>     Collection algorithms
> 
> What threading type is used
>     token
>     indirect
>     direct
> 
> API's related to multithreading and/or
> multiprocessing
>     mutex
>     semaphores
>     etc.
> 
> Kevin
> 

Kevin,

With Revolution you don't have to worry about garbage
collection ; temporary variables are released at the
end of the handler in which you use them,
script-locals and global variables stay until you
'delete' them or quit.

Revolution doesn't have a multi-threading architecture
in the traditional sense : you can 'send <message> to
<object> in <time>' and those messages are then
scheduled into a queue and handled at idle time as
soon as possible after their trigger time.

Some commands (the socket commands in particular) can
be used with a 'callback' parameter, allowing your
application to handle other events while you're
waiting for the command to complete ; once completed,
the engine will call your callback handler so you can
act consequently.

For more information regarding 'send', I recommend Dar
Scott's excellent primer on message mechanics, which
you can find at the following location :
<http://www.swcp.com/dsc/revstacks.html>

Hope this helped,

Jan Schenkel.

=====
"As we grow older, we grow both wiser and more foolish at the same time."  (La Rochefoucauld)

__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Finance: Get your refund fast by filing online.
http://taxes.yahoo.com/filing.html

From janschenkel at yahoo.com  Tue Feb 10 11:33:19 2004
From: janschenkel at yahoo.com (Jan Schenkel)
Date: Tue, 10 Feb 2004 08:33:19 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Rev 1.1.1 can'd find Windows engine????
In-Reply-To: <D0A6A9CB-5B64-11D8-9FFA-000A959D005E@earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <20040210163319.447.qmail@web60508.mail.yahoo.com>

--- Marian Petrides <mpetrides at earthlink.net> wrote:
> > HELLLLPPPPPP!   I am trying to build a Windows
> distribution of a stack 
> > created in Mac OS X version of Rev 1.1.1.  I
> previously downloaded the 
> > windows engine but apparently Rev can't find it. 
> When Rev tries to 
> > download it, the download proceeds to almost the
> end and then 
> > generates a download error.
> 
> How do I get the Windows engine for Rev 1.1.1?   Why
> doesn't Rev 
> recognize the previously downloaded engine?  Am I
> going to have to 
> build the distribution on a Windows machine--or will
> that even work??
> 
> Thanks.
> 
> Marian
> (I've gotten this to work in the past but don't know
> what I am doing 
> wrong now.)
> 

Hi Marian,

You can download the Revolution 1.1.1 engines from the
following location :
<http://www.runrev.com/revolution/engines11/>

Download+decompress them and toss them into the
components/engines/ subfolder of your Revolution
folder.

Hope this helped,

Jan Schenkel.

=====
"As we grow older, we grow both wiser and more foolish at the same time."  (La Rochefoucauld)

__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Finance: Get your refund fast by filing online.
http://taxes.yahoo.com/filing.html

From wouter.abraham at pi.be  Tue Feb 10 11:40:12 2004
From: wouter.abraham at pi.be (Wouter)
Date: Tue, 10 Feb 2004 17:40:12 +0100
Subject: version control system (was mission critical apps)
In-Reply-To: <20040210150351.59187930189@mail.runrev.com>
References: <20040210150351.59187930189@mail.runrev.com>
Message-ID: <CC166842-5BE7-11D8-B3E5-003065CC999E@pi.be>


On 10 Feb 2004, at 16:03, use-revolution-request at lists.runrev.com wrote:

> Message: 11
> Date: Tue, 10 Feb 2004 14:59:28 +0000
> From: revolution at knowledgeworks.plus.com
> Subject: Re: version control system (was mission critical apps)
> To: How to use Revolution <use-revolution at lists.runrev.com>
> Message-ID:
> 	<OF1CFCA6CB.BFC249FD-ON80256E36.004F5AEF 
> -80256E36.0052599D at knowledgeworks.plus.com>
> 	
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>
>


snip


>
> As there was no interest in it, I was going to see how far I could go  
> with
> this myself.  Geoff's stack is extremely buggy with regard to Rev - I  
> only
> got a license to Metacard last week so that I could try MCRipper in  
> that
> and see if it performed better there.
>

It is as buggy in mc.

How is this version control supposed to work?
If an xml file is used to store the "ripped" stack then opening the  
stack files
directly for a binary read and storing it in a custom properties could  
also be an option?

Greetings,
WA


From mwieder at ahsoftware.net  Tue Feb 10 11:51:00 2004
From: mwieder at ahsoftware.net (Mark Wieder)
Date: Tue, 10 Feb 2004 08:51:00 -0800
Subject: Manipulating Old Dates
Message-ID: <2674429133.20040210085100@ahsoftware.net>

Ray-

Julian dates aren't all that hard to deal with - here are a couple of
functions I use for getting back and forth. If memory serves, julian
dates are useful back to 4716 BC, as long as you don't mind some
weirdness around 1582 AD when they switched calendar formats.

constant kDaysInYear = 365.25
constant kGregJD = 2299161

-- convert a YYYY MM DD to julian date
-- curtime is in "long time" format: HH:MM:SS
function GetJulian year, month, day, curtime
   local JulianDate
   local extra
   local uhr, umin, usec

   set the itemDelimiter to ":"
   put word 1 of curtime into uhr
   put word 2 of curtime into umin
   put word 3 of curtime into usec

   put 100 * year + month - 190002.5 into extra
   put 367 * year into JulianDate
   subtract trunc(7.0 * (year + trunc((month + 9) / 12)) / 4) from JulianDate
   add trunc(275 * month / 9 ) to JulianDate
   add day to JulianDate
   add (uhr + (umin + usec / 60) / 60) / 24 to JulianDate
   add 1721013.5 to JulianDate
   subtract .5 * extra / abs(extra) from JulianDate
   add .5 to JulianDate

   return JulianDate
end GetJulian

-- convert a julian date to yyyy.mm.dd.hh.mm.ss format
function FromJulian julian
   local tmp
   local dayt, month, year
   local uhr, umin, usec
   local a, b, c, d, e, f
   local jd

   put julian + .5 into jd
   put trunc(jd) into z
   put jd - z into f

   if (z >= kGregJD) then
     put trunc((z - 1867216.25)/36524.25) into tmp
     put z + 1 + tmp - trunc(tmp/4) into a
   else
     put z into a
   end if

   put a + 1524 into b
   put trunc((b - 122.1) / kDaysInYear) into c
   put trunc(kDaysInYear * c) into d
   put trunc((b - d) / 30.6001) into e

   put b - d - trunc(30.6001 * e) + f into dayt
   put trunc(dayt) into field "txtTempJulian1"

   if (e < 13.5) then
     put e-1 into month
   else
     put e-13 into month
   end if

   if (month > 2.5) then
     put c - 4716 into year
   else
     put c - 4715 into year
   end if

   put trunc(24 * (dayt - trunc(dayt))) into uhr
   put trunc(1440 * (dayt - trunc(dayt) - uhr/24)) into umin
   put 86400 * (dayt - trunc(dayt) - uhr/24 - umin/1440) into usec

   return year & "." & month & "." & trunc(dayt) & "." & uhr & "." &
   umin & "." & usec
   
end FromJulian

-- 
-Mark Wieder
 mwieder at ahsoftware.net


From mpetrides at earthlink.net  Tue Feb 10 11:54:45 2004
From: mpetrides at earthlink.net (Marian Petrides)
Date: Tue, 10 Feb 2004 11:54:45 -0500
Subject: Rev 1.1.1 can'd find Windows engine????
In-Reply-To: <20040210163319.447.qmail@web60508.mail.yahoo.com>
References: <20040210163319.447.qmail@web60508.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <D45D8834-5BE9-11D8-8D2D-000A959D005E@earthlink.net>

That did the trick. Thanks, Jan.

On Feb 10, 2004, at 11:33 AM, Jan Schenkel wrote:

> --- Marian Petrides <mpetrides at earthlink.net> wrote:
>>> HELLLLPPPPPP!   I am trying to build a Windows
>> distribution of a stack
>>> created in Mac OS X version of Rev 1.1.1.  I
>> previously downloaded the
>>> windows engine but apparently Rev can't find it.
>> When Rev tries to
>>> download it, the download proceeds to almost the
>> end and then
>>> generates a download error.
>>
>> How do I get the Windows engine for Rev 1.1.1?   Why
>> doesn't Rev
>> recognize the previously downloaded engine?  Am I
>> going to have to
>> build the distribution on a Windows machine--or will
>> that even work??
>>
>> Thanks.
>>
>> Marian
>> (I've gotten this to work in the past but don't know
>> what I am doing
>> wrong now.)
>>
>
> Hi Marian,
>
> You can download the Revolution 1.1.1 engines from the
> following location :
> <http://www.runrev.com/revolution/engines11/>
>
> Download+decompress them and toss them into the
> components/engines/ subfolder of your Revolution
> folder.
>
> Hope this helped,
>
> Jan Schenkel.


From frank at backtalk.com  Tue Feb 10 12:20:22 2004
From: frank at backtalk.com (Frank Leahy)
Date: Tue, 10 Feb 2004 17:20:22 +0000
Subject: Is Transcript's English orientation a plus or minus?
In-Reply-To: <20040210165155.B1756930235@mail.runrev.com>
Message-ID: <68831FB4-5BED-11D8-B678-000A9580FCCE@backtalk.com>

>>>
>> Not supporting these standard statements make the language look a
>> bit "beginner-ish"
>
> Frank, et al:
>
> Is there something inherently inferior about a programming
> environment that can be used productively by someone who doesn't have
> a degree in computer science?
>
> Do professional developers feel threatened by the concept of business
> people writing custom software to drive their business without
> employing a programmer to assist or do the job for them?

Rob,

I was writing system software at Apple -- every time you use pop up, 
color, or hierarchical menu on the Mac you can thank me -- when 
HyperCard was developed, and I knew both Bill Atkinson (invented 
HyperCard) and Dan Winkler (invented HyperTalk).

I wrote one of the first large-scale end-user applications in HyperCard 
-- see http://www.artstacks.com/ -- which is still used by over 300 
high-end art galleries around the world.

There is nothing inferior about a programming language or a development 
environment that makes it easier for non-computer scientists to program.

I have no problem with people using RR for any project they want to 
create.  The more the merrier.

I love that xTalk makes RR accessible to the masses.

BUT...I wish xTalk had some ADDITIONAL constructs that made it more 
accessible to computer scientists and professional programmers.  Both 
because without them xTalk look amateurish, and therefore less likely 
to be used by professionals, and because it would make it significantly 
easier to port code from other languages to xTalk.

It's that simple.  This isn't an either or proposition.  Adding support 
for "x = 1" would have no impact on the RR IDE. It would have no impact 
on your ability to use "put 1 into x" all you want.  It would have no 
impact on you, or anyone else using RR today.  But it would make my 
life easier.  And, I believe, it would make RR an easier sell into 
organizations staffed by professional programmers and 
computer-scientists.

Thanks for listening.

-- Frank


From revolution at knowledgeworks.plus.com  Tue Feb 10 13:12:32 2004
From: revolution at knowledgeworks.plus.com (revolution at knowledgeworks.plus.com)
Date: Tue, 10 Feb 2004 18:12:32 +0000
Subject: version control system (was mission critical apps)
Message-ID: <OFEFB93489.5B23C271-ON80256E36.00606DAE-80256E36.00640698@knowledgeworks.plus.com>

Wouter wrote
>>
How is this version control supposed to work?
If an xml file is used to store the "ripped" stack then opening the 
stack files
directly for a binary read and storing it in a custom properties could 
also be an option?
<<

I'm sorry Wouter, but I don't understand your question.  Could you 
elaborate?

My idea is that all the components of a stack would be converted to XML so 
that e.g. grepping/formatting/XML tools could be used to edit/manipulate 
the components outside of Rev.  Moreover, the components should be able to 
be selectively re-applied from the VCS e.g. you could go to the VCS and 
browse to a version of a stack from last week, find the component, and 
revert to the code for that component.

Indeed, as more and more data sources are exposing XML interfaces, I'm as 
interested in the principle of being to generate stacks from XML as I am 
in saving stacks as XML. 

Bernard

From revolution at knowledgeworks.plus.com  Tue Feb 10 13:12:40 2004
From: revolution at knowledgeworks.plus.com (revolution at knowledgeworks.plus.com)
Date: Tue, 10 Feb 2004 18:12:40 +0000
Subject: Is Transcript's English orientation a plus or minus?
Message-ID: <OF5585A31C.270C3EEC-ON80256E36.00623903-80256E36.00640973@knowledgeworks.plus.com>

Frank wrote
>>
This isn't an either or proposition.  Adding support 
for "x = 1" would have no impact on the RR IDE. It would have no impact 
on your ability to use "put 1 into x" all you want.  It would have no 
impact on you, or anyone else using RR today.  But it would make my 
life easier.  And, I believe, it would make RR an easier sell into 
organizations staffed by professional programmers and 
computer-scientists.

Thanks for listening.
<<

Thanks for bringing up this idea.  Rev is one of the most enjoyable forms 
of programming I have done in 20 years, but I appreciate you bringing up 
these suggestions.  It has been an interesting discussion.

Whilst I (mostly) would not use the c-like syntax, if it can be added 
without causing confusion, then I think you are right that it would help 
to provide a familiar 'handle' to those used to the c-like languages.

If Rev is always aimed at being accessible to beginning programmers as a 
foundational principle, I think it is going to be regarded as 
un-professional by IT departments.

One thing I liked in a competing product I looked at a few years ago (I 
can't remember the name now) was that the menu of the IDE had an option 
for selecting the complexity of the view - something like 'simple', 
'detailed', 'advanced'.  As it started up in 'simple' mode, it was very 
easy to get an initial overview without being overwhelmed.  Once I had 
grasped the essence of what it could do, I could change the complexity of 
the IDE to increase my understanding - moving up the complexity levels 
revealed its power.  I think if Metacard had had this facility 5 years 
ago, I would have used it 4 years earlier :-)

Whenever one is learning a powerful and complex new environment, I think 
it is advantageous to be able to start it in 'simple mode', and let the 
user switch to the level that they feel comfortable with.  Professionals 
could start it up, select 'advanced' to see a complex environment.  Maybe 
the docs could also be sensitive to the complexity level and provide 
c-syntax. 

Just my 2pence

Bernard.

From jperryl at ecs.fullerton.edu  Tue Feb 10 13:21:55 2004
From: jperryl at ecs.fullerton.edu (Judy Perry)
Date: Tue, 10 Feb 2004 10:21:55 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Andy's comments and positioning...
In-Reply-To: <p06010261bc4db73b9e8c@[10.0.1.3]>
Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.4.33.0402101021040.19092-100000@titan.ecs.fullerton.edu>

I was going to ask about this very solution that Jeanne suggests:

How to do it?

Sorry if this is a dumb question...

Judy

On Mon, 9 Feb 2004, Jeanne A. E. DeVoto wrote:

> I'd use plugins for this. You can load a plugin automatically on
> startup and have its openStack script put the stack script in use -
> that's what I'd do.


From jperryl at ecs.fullerton.edu  Tue Feb 10 13:25:37 2004
From: jperryl at ecs.fullerton.edu (Judy Perry)
Date: Tue, 10 Feb 2004 10:25:37 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Is Transcript's English orientation a plus or minus?
In-Reply-To: <a05100302bc4e9271d6ce@[66.52.165.189]>
Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.4.33.0402101024340.19092-100000@titan.ecs.fullerton.edu>

Exactly!

If I want the 'convenience'/etc. of doing something in C, I should just do
it in C (which I have zero plans to learn, thankfully).

Judy

On Tue, 10 Feb 2004, Rob Cozens wrote:

> >  Who wants Rev to be as user-friendly as C?
>
> I'm afraid that's impossible, Judy:  one would have to--
>
> * "dumb down" the Rev Dev UI,
>
<snip>



From dsc at swcp.com  Tue Feb 10 13:38:54 2004
From: dsc at swcp.com (Dar Scott)
Date: Tue, 10 Feb 2004 11:38:54 -0700
Subject: Is Transcript's English orientation a plus or minus?
In-Reply-To: <OF5585A31C.270C3EEC-ON80256E36.00623903-80256E36.00640973@knowledgeworks.plus.com>
Message-ID: <6135E160-5BF8-11D8-AF4C-000A9567A3E6@swcp.com>


On Tuesday, February 10, 2004, at 11:12 AM, 
revolution at knowledgeworks.plus.com wrote:

> If Rev is always aimed at being accessible to beginning programmers as 
> a
> foundational principle, I think it is going to be regarded as
> un-professional by IT departments.

Thirty years ago I wrote a proposal for using lisp for a distributed 
control system project.  Now "everybody knows" that lisp is not 
suitable for such a system.  So, I addressed all the reasons why lisp 
would actually work and why--in this particular case--it was needed to 
meet the requirements.  My proposal met all requirements, but was 
rejected on the grounds that "everyone knows" lisp is not suitable for 
control systems.

Dar Scott


From jbv.silences at Club-Internet.fr  Tue Feb 10 13:41:54 2004
From: jbv.silences at Club-Internet.fr (jbv)
Date: Tue, 10 Feb 2004 19:41:54 +0100
Subject: Is Transcript's English orientation a plus or minus?
References: <Pine.GSO.4.33.0402101024340.19092-100000@titan.ecs.fullerton.edu>
Message-ID: <402925E6.113DA1B4@Club-Internet.fr>

Funny how many of you seem to always approach this
discussion as X-talk vs C (or other languages)...
I already posted a similar remark to this list (or to the MC
list), but another point of view is possible : the association
of Xtalk and C can lead to a tremendous power in high end
projects, Rev & Xtalk being used to build top quality front
ends (with unbeatable productivity & cost ratios) while C
being used in externals for critical high end tasks (realtime
3D, data base access and many other industrial & scientific
processes)...

JB


> Exactly!
>
> If I want the 'convenience'/etc. of doing something in C, I should just do
> it in C (which I have zero plans to learn, thankfully).
>
> Judy
>
> On Tue, 10 Feb 2004, Rob Cozens wrote:
>
> > >  Who wants Rev to be as user-friendly as C?
> >
> > I'm afraid that's impossible, Judy:  one would have to--
> >
> > * "dumb down" the Rev Dev UI,
> >
> <snip>
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution


From pixelbird at interisland.net  Tue Feb 10 13:45:12 2004
From: pixelbird at interisland.net (Ken Norris)
Date: Tue, 10 Feb 2004 10:45:12 -0800
Subject: Silly question no so silly anymore
In-Reply-To: <20040210150350.E8311930169@mail.runrev.com>
Message-ID: <BC4E66B7.4E62%pixelbird@interisland.net>

Hi Xavier,

> Date: Tue, 10 Feb 2004 10:49:51 +0100
> From: xbury.cs at clearstream.com
> Subject: Re: Silly question
> 
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
> 
> open stack "child" of stack "parent"
> 
> assuming there is a stack child, it should work.
-----------
Nope. The name of the main stack is "Anchor-HH", the name of the substack is
"Help 1 Con"

The syntax I'm using looks like this:

open stack "Help 1 Con" of stack "Anchor-HH"

...returns "No such card" when run from the msg box, does nothing from
openStack, nor even preOpenStack handler in the main stack.

I don't understand. Why doesn't it work? IIRC it used to work. The only
possible way to open the substack so far is from the Application Browser.

Rev 2.03

TIA,
Ken N.


From alex at mindlube.com  Tue Feb 10 13:57:09 2004
From: alex at mindlube.com (Alex Rice)
Date: Tue, 10 Feb 2004 11:57:09 -0700
Subject: Silly question no so silly anymore
In-Reply-To: <BC4E66B7.4E62%pixelbird@interisland.net>
References: <BC4E66B7.4E62%pixelbird@interisland.net>
Message-ID: <ED99418A-5BFA-11D8-B8C6-000393C4760A@mindlube.com>


On Feb 10, 2004, at 11:45 AM, Ken Norris wrote:
> open stack "Help 1 Con" of stack "Anchor-HH"
>
> ...returns "No such card" when run from the msg box, does nothing from
> openStack, nor even preOpenStack handler in the main stack.
>
> I don't understand. Why doesn't it work? IIRC it used to work. The only
> possible way to open the substack so far is from the Application 
> Browser.

Ken, could it be the stack is opening but is visible = false. This can 
happen if you have a stack hidden, then save the mainstack. Try this. 
Specifying the main stack is not necessary:

go stack "Help 1 Con"
show stack "Help 1 Con"


The no such card message is probably a different problem compared with 
the substack not appearing. Maybe look for problems in the openStack or 
preOpenStack handlers in the substack AND the mainstack.

--
Alex Rice | Mindlube Software | http://mindlube.com


From dsc at swcp.com  Tue Feb 10 14:02:43 2004
From: dsc at swcp.com (Dar Scott)
Date: Tue, 10 Feb 2004 12:02:43 -0700
Subject: Is Transcript's English orientation a plus or minus?
In-Reply-To: <402925E6.113DA1B4@Club-Internet.fr>
Message-ID: <B50DF0AE-5BFB-11D8-AF4C-000A9567A3E6@swcp.com>


On Tuesday, February 10, 2004, at 11:41 AM, jbv wrote:

> the association
> of Xtalk and C can lead to a tremendous power in high end
> projects, Rev & Xtalk being used to build top quality front
> ends (with unbeatable productivity & cost ratios) while C
> being used in externals for critical high end tasks (realtime
> 3D, data base access and many other industrial & scientific
> processes)...
>
I think this is a good point.  I use externals to get access to some OS 
capability and to control other processes, but it is reasonable to use 
externals for performance, too.  If I was doing a lot in the external, 
I would consider shifting to C++ and using the standard library, but 
since my current needs encourage me to keep the external simple and 
expose general capability to Transcript, I find much is still done in 
Transcript and the small external is programmed in C.  There have been 
exceptions to keeping externals small, especially in making authorized 
system changes the right way.

But I have paid my dues.  I have programmed in a zillion languages, 
high and low, in a zillion environments.  I am an experienced C 
programmer.  Programming in C has its pitfalls.  There is a cost for a 
programmer new to C to move in this direction.

Dar Scott




From dsc at swcp.com  Tue Feb 10 14:19:58 2004
From: dsc at swcp.com (Dar Scott)
Date: Tue, 10 Feb 2004 12:19:58 -0700
Subject: Is Transcript's English orientation a plus or minus?
In-Reply-To: <68831FB4-5BED-11D8-B678-000A9580FCCE@backtalk.com>
Message-ID: <1D990E84-5BFE-11D8-AF4C-000A9567A3E6@swcp.com>


On Tuesday, February 10, 2004, at 10:20 AM, Frank Leahy wrote:

> BUT...I wish xTalk had some ADDITIONAL constructs that made it more 
> accessible to computer scientists and professional programmers.  Both 
> because without them xTalk look amateurish, and therefore less likely 
> to be used by professionals, and because it would make it 
> significantly easier to port code from other languages to xTalk.

In my mind I am not separating xTalk from Transcript from Revolution.  
What is more important to me is a clean, bug-free, complete 
implementation.  It is a toy implementation that makes something look 
amateurish.  RunRev has always had a commitment to fixing bugs and 
recently has been able to increase resources to that end.  That is what 
removes the amateurish look.

The amateurish look can show up anywhere.  I recently worked with Java 
and was surprised that writeln to a tcp link would push twice, once for 
the text and once for the crlf.  That is amateurish and it has nothing 
to do with the syntax.  This is not a bug as far as I know, but it is a 
tiny performance hit and a pain in debugging.

(I wonder.  Would Scheme or Haskell or Modula or other languages look 
amateurish?)

Dar Scott




From jacque at hyperactivesw.com  Tue Feb 10 14:20:52 2004
From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay)
Date: Tue, 10 Feb 2004 13:20:52 -0600
Subject: Silly question no so silly anymore
In-Reply-To: <BC4E66B7.4E62%pixelbird@interisland.net>
References: <BC4E66B7.4E62%pixelbird@interisland.net>
Message-ID: <40292F14.90601@hyperactivesw.com>

On 2/10/04 12:45 PM, Ken Norris wrote:

> open stack "Help 1 Con" of stack "Anchor-HH"
> 
> ...returns "No such card" when run from the msg box, does nothing from
> openStack, nor even preOpenStack handler in the main stack.

There's nothing wrong with the syntax. This is often due to a typo -- 
often involving invisible characters in the name. Extra spaces, 
accidental returns at the end of a name, etc. Try copying the name out 
of the inspector and see what you get.

If that isn't the problem, check to make sure that the stack isn't 
invisible. Use "show stack 'Help 1 Con'" to see if it appears.

-- 
Jacqueline Landman Gay         |     jacque at hyperactivesw.com
HyperActive Software           |     http://www.hyperactivesw.com

From rcozens at pon.net  Tue Feb 10 13:24:33 2004
From: rcozens at pon.net (Rob Cozens)
Date: Tue, 10 Feb 2004 11:24:33 -0700
Subject: Silly question no so silly anymore
In-Reply-To: <BC4E66B7.4E62%pixelbird@interisland.net>
References: <BC4E66B7.4E62%pixelbird@interisland.net>
Message-ID: <a05100300bc4ed0b878b6@[66.52.165.22]>

>...returns "No such card" when run from the msg box, does nothing from
>openStack, nor even preOpenStack handler in the main stack.
>
>I don't understand. Why doesn't it work? IIRC it used to work. The only
>possible way to open the substack so far is from the Application Browser.

Hi Ken,

I started a response to this the other day; but trashed it because I 
can't, for the life of me, remember the exact details.

The problem was the same.  It seemed to me in my case I found the 
stack I thought was the topStack was in fact not, so handler 
references to a card were not resolvable.

Maybe I corrected the problem by referencing the card by its long name??
-- 

Rob Cozens
CCW, Serendipity Software Company
http://www.oenolog.net/who.htm

"And I, which was two fooles, do so grow three;
Who are a little wise, the best fooles bee."

from "The Triple Foole" by John Donne (1572-1631)

From revolution at jaedworks.com  Tue Feb 10 14:24:41 2004
From: revolution at jaedworks.com (Jeanne A. E. DeVoto)
Date: Tue, 10 Feb 2004 11:24:41 -0800
Subject: Andy's comments and positioning...
In-Reply-To:  <Pine.GSO.4.33.0402101021040.19092-100000@titan.ecs.fullerton.edu>
References:  <Pine.GSO.4.33.0402101021040.19092-100000@titan.ecs.fullerton.edu>
Message-ID: <p060102fabc4edae9b813@[10.0.1.3]>

At 10:21 AM -0800 2/10/04, Judy Perry wrote:
>I was going to ask about this very solution that Jeanne suggests:
>
>How to do it?
>
>Sorry if this is a dumb question...

Not at all.

There are various ways to do it, but here's one:

1. Create a stack with one button. In the button script, put the 
handlers that you would put in the Home stack if this were HC.

2. In the stack script, put
      on openStack
        if the name of button "My Button" \
           is not among the lines of the backscripts
        then insert the script of button "My Button" into back
      end openStack

3. Save the stack in the Plugins folder.

4. Choose Development menu > Plugins > Plugin Settings, choose your 
plugin from the menu at the top, then choose "Revolution starts up" 
and "invisible". (For this kind of plugin, you don't need to choose 
any messages to send.)
-- 
jeanne a. e. devoto ~ jaed at jaedworks.com
http://www.jaedworks.com

From marty at vertex.ucls.uchicago.edu  Tue Feb 10 15:01:09 2004
From: marty at vertex.ucls.uchicago.edu (Marty Billingsley)
Date: Tue, 10 Feb 2004 14:01:09 -0600 (CST)
Subject: Andy's comments and positioning...
In-Reply-To: <20040210192047.EBBE393005C@mail.runrev.com>
References: <20040210192047.EBBE393005C@mail.runrev.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.4.58.0402101356590.496@vertex.ucls.uchicago.edu>

> On Mon, 9 Feb 2004, Jeanne A. E. DeVoto wrote:
>
> > I'd use plugins for this. You can load a plugin automatically on
> > startup and have its openStack script put the stack script in use -
> > that's what I'd do.

Judy writes:
> I was going to ask about this very solution that Jeanne suggests:
>
> How to do it?
>
> Sorry if this is a dumb question...

Me too.  How do I do it?

  - marty

--
Marty Billingsley (marty at ucls.uchicago.edu)
The University of Chicago Laboratory Schools

    "We are our choices...."
                   - Sartre

From alw918 at earthlink.net  Tue Feb 10 15:10:30 2004
From: alw918 at earthlink.net (Andrew)
Date: Tue, 10 Feb 2004 12:10:30 -0800
Subject: two questions about images
In-Reply-To: <20040210192048.1EFEE930230@mail.runrev.com>
Message-ID: <2C9E9DFE-5C05-11D8-A057-000393DD0724@earthlink.net>

Hi everyone.  I have a couple of questions about images.  When 
importing an image ("as control"), how do you make sure that it goes to 
the data-bank place (what is that called?) so it can be accessed from 
every card, rather than just being imported to one card.

Also, say I have one image and another image on top of it.  The top 
image is a non-square image, like a person.  However, when imported, 
there is white all around the person to fill out the square, and you 
can tell since it's sitting on top of the back image.  How do I tell 
Revolution that I want the white part to be transparent?

Thanks so much!


From marty at vertex.ucls.uchicago.edu  Tue Feb 10 15:12:04 2004
From: marty at vertex.ucls.uchicago.edu (Marty Billingsley)
Date: Tue, 10 Feb 2004 14:12:04 -0600 (CST)
Subject: Is Transcript's English orientation a plus or minus?
In-Reply-To: <20040210192047.EBBE393005C@mail.runrev.com>
References: <20040210192047.EBBE393005C@mail.runrev.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.4.58.0402101402010.496@vertex.ucls.uchicago.edu>

> <Bernard.Devlin at knowledgeworks.plus.com> writes:
> Frank wrote
> >>
> This isn't an either or proposition.  Adding support
> for "x = 1" would have no impact on the RR IDE. It would have no impact
> on your ability to use "put 1 into x" all you want.  It would have no
> impact on you, or anyone else using RR today.  But it would make my
> life easier.  And, I believe, it would make RR an easier sell into
> organizations staffed by professional programmers and
> computer-scientists.
> <<
>
> Whilst I (mostly) would not use the c-like syntax, if it can be added
> without causing confusion, then I think you are right that it would help
> to provide a familiar 'handle' to those used to the c-like languages.

This got me thinking that Rev would be a *great* tool for moving
students *into* the c/c++/java environment.  My 8th graders understand
 set the visible of button "x" to false
   and
 set the label of button "x" to "whatever"

When they get to high school and prepping for the AP exam, which
is now in java, it would be really nice to be able to equate the
above statements with:
 x.visible = false
   and
 x.label = "whatever"
(may not have the syntax exactly right, but you know what I mean)

This would be a gentle introduction to a confusing syntax (okay,
confusing to those seeing it for the first time :-).  I'm always
looking for ways to spend less time on syntax and more time on
the bigger picture (how to design good programs, etc.).

One more way in which Rev could be a great tool in the education
environment!

  - marty

--
Marty Billingsley (marty at ucls.uchicago.edu)
The University of Chicago Laboratory Schools

    "We are our choices...."
                   - Sartre


From themacguy at macosx.com  Tue Feb 10 15:21:03 2004
From: themacguy at macosx.com (Barry Levine)
Date: Tue, 10 Feb 2004 13:21:03 -0700
Subject: DragDrop a ".textClipping"?
In-Reply-To: <20040210074121.7102B930203@mail.runrev.com>
References: <20040210074121.7102B930203@mail.runrev.com>
Message-ID: <A60CED02-5C06-11D8-AE1F-000A95763ABC@macosx.com>

Jeanne,

Thanks for the info. Dropping a clipping produces the contents of the 
clipping rather than the path when using "put the dragData". So I 
changed that line of code to: put the dragData["files"] and that 
yielded the path.

Are there others who have managed to drag & drop files of types that 
are not normally supported in Rev? I'm thinking of pdf in particular 
but any other types are of interest, as well. If you have, perhaps you 
can point to an example that shows how to do this?

Thanks very much,
Barry

On Feb 10, 2004, at 12:41 AM, jeanne wrote:

> Date: Mon, 9 Feb 2004 19:10:52 -0800
> From: "Jeanne A. E. DeVoto" <revolution at jaedworks.com>
> Subject: Re: DragDrop a ".textClipping"?
>
> At 7:40 PM -0700 2/9/04, Barry Levine wrote:
>> Anyone have an idea how to "drag&drop" a textClipping into a Rev
>> stack? I've been playing with Klaus Major's example (Thank you,
>> Klaus!) and have seen how jpg, txt, rtf, etc. can be dropped into
>> the appropriate field or image. The text clipping seems to be
>> ignored. Any guidance will be appreciated.
>
> It looks like the text in a text clipping is stored in a resource, so
> you'll need to use the getResource function to pull it out.
>


From ttasovac at princeton.edu  Tue Feb 10 08:59:10 2004
From: ttasovac at princeton.edu (Toma Tasovac)
Date: Tue, 10 Feb 2004 14:59:10 +0100
Subject: search fields (as in Finder, Safari, iTunes)
Message-ID: <4CC2A65D-5BD1-11D8-BA48-000A95C45C8C@princeton.edu>

Can we make custom-shaped text fields in Rev?  I would like to have a 
search field that looks like the OS X search field in Finder, google 
field in Safari etc., i.e. a field which is semicircular at both ends.  
Clicking on this kind field should focus on its entire border, i.e. the 
blue line should go around the entire field.

All best,
Toma 


From scott at tactilemedia.com  Tue Feb 10 15:52:12 2004
From: scott at tactilemedia.com (Scott Rossi)
Date: Tue, 10 Feb 2004 12:52:12 -0800
Subject: two questions about images
In-Reply-To: <2C9E9DFE-5C05-11D8-A057-000393DD0724@earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <BC4E847C.A0EF%scott@tactilemedia.com>

Recently, "Andrew"  wrote:

> Hi everyone.  I have a couple of questions about images.  When
> importing an image ("as control"), how do you make sure that it goes to
> the data-bank place (what is that called?) so it can be accessed from
> every card, rather than just being imported to one card.

Group the image (yes, you can have a group of 1 object) and set its
backgroundBehavior (Behave like a background) to true.  Any new cards
created after this point will automatically have the grouped image applied.
To add the grouped image to existing cards that don't already have the image
present, go to each of these cards and select "Place Group > xyz" from the
Object menu.


> Also, say I have one image and another image on top of it.  The top
> image is a non-square image, like a person.  However, when imported,
> there is white all around the person to fill out the square, and you
> can tell since it's sitting on top of the back image.  How do I tell
> Revolution that I want the white part to be transparent?

The best way is to create your transparency in whatever paint editor you
have.  GIF and PNG are the two image formats that Rev supports with
transparency.

Regards,

Scott Rossi
Creative Director
Tactile Media, Multimedia & Design
-----
E: scott at tactilemedia.com
W: http://www.tactilemedia.com


From scott at tactilemedia.com  Tue Feb 10 15:56:17 2004
From: scott at tactilemedia.com (Scott Rossi)
Date: Tue, 10 Feb 2004 12:56:17 -0800
Subject: search fields (as in Finder, Safari, iTunes)
In-Reply-To: <4CC2A65D-5BD1-11D8-BA48-000A95C45C8C@princeton.edu>
Message-ID: <BC4E8571.A0F1%scott@tactilemedia.com>

Recently, "Toma Tasovac"  wrote:

> Can we make custom-shaped text fields in Rev?

No.

> I would like to have a
> search field that looks like the OS X search field in Finder, google
> field in Safari etc., i.e. a field which is semicircular at both ends.
> Clicking on this kind field should focus on its entire border, i.e. the
> blue line should go around the entire field.

You would have to create an image of a rounded field border and place your
actual field on top of the image (make the field transparent).  If you want
a focus border to also have rounded corners, you need to create your own
rounded hilite image to act as the focus border, and script its behavior.
It's a bit of work but very doable.

Regards,

Scott Rossi
Creative Director
Tactile Media, Multimedia & Design
-----
E: scott at tactilemedia.com
W: http://www.tactilemedia.com


From pixelbird at interisland.net  Tue Feb 10 16:19:22 2004
From: pixelbird at interisland.net (Ken Norris)
Date: Tue, 10 Feb 2004 13:19:22 -0800
Subject: Silly question no so silly anymore
In-Reply-To: <20040210192048.1EFEE930230@mail.runrev.com>
Message-ID: <BC4E8ADA.4E7D%pixelbird@interisland.net>

Thanks Alex,

> Date: Tue, 10 Feb 2004 11:57:09 -0700
> From: Alex Rice <alex at mindlube.com>
> Subject: Re: Silly question no so silly anymore
 
> Ken, could it be the stack is opening but is visible = false. This can
> happen if you have a stack hidden, then save the mainstack. Try this.
> Specifying the main stack is not necessary:
> 
> go stack "Help 1 Con"
> show stack "Help 1 Con"
------------
None of the above, but I did solve the mystery.

Turned out to be a missed space from an earlier name change, very hard to
see. Everything works as expected now.

Whew!
Ken N.




From rjb at rz.uni-potsdam.de  Tue Feb 10 16:06:07 2004
From: rjb at rz.uni-potsdam.de (Robert Brenstein)
Date: Tue, 10 Feb 2004 22:06:07 +0100
Subject: Andy's comments and positioning...
In-Reply-To: <p060102fabc4edae9b813@[10.0.1.3]>
References:   <Pine.GSO.4.33.0402101021040.19092-100000@titan.ecs.fullerton.edu>
 <p060102fabc4edae9b813@[10.0.1.3]>
Message-ID: <a0602043bbc4ef7f3c492@[141.89.100.235]>

>At 10:21 AM -0800 2/10/04, Judy Perry wrote:
>>I was going to ask about this very solution that Jeanne suggests:
>>
>>How to do it?
>>
>>Sorry if this is a dumb question...
>
>Not at all.
>
>There are various ways to do it, but here's one:
>
>1. Create a stack with one button. In the button script, put the 
>handlers that you would put in the Home stack if this were HC.
>
>2. In the stack script, put
>      on openStack
>        if the name of button "My Button" \
>           is not among the lines of the backscripts
>        then insert the script of button "My Button" into back
>      end openStack
>
>3. Save the stack in the Plugins folder.
>
>4. Choose Development menu > Plugins > Plugin Settings, choose your 
>plugin from the menu at the top, then choose "Revolution starts up" 
>and "invisible". (For this kind of plugin, you don't need to choose 
>any messages to send.)
>--
>jeanne a. e. devoto ~ jaed at jaedworks.com
>http://www.jaedworks.com

What is the advantage of inserting backscript as opposed to just 
start using? Aside of course from the difference that I can insert 
script of any object as a backscript.

Robert

From pixelbird at interisland.net  Tue Feb 10 16:33:09 2004
From: pixelbird at interisland.net (Ken Norris)
Date: Tue, 10 Feb 2004 13:33:09 -0800
Subject: Windows appearance issues
In-Reply-To: <20040210192048.1EFEE930230@mail.runrev.com>
Message-ID: <BC4E8E15.4E7E%pixelbird@interisland.net>

Howdy,

This is the first app I've tried to build for Windows.

With normal settings, i.e., Mac appearance, everything looks great, the
buttons look good and hilite properly, etc.

I switched to Windows preview, and everything got really ugly. The Square
buttons went flat, all turned into the background color, the hilite comes
out dark purple, the name text doesn't turn white at hilite, can't tell a
default button from anything else, etc.

Yechhh!

I need to fix all this stuff so it looks good in Windows

How-to suggestions please.

Ken N.


From pixelbird at interisland.net  Tue Feb 10 16:42:21 2004
From: pixelbird at interisland.net (Ken Norris)
Date: Tue, 10 Feb 2004 13:42:21 -0800
Subject: Windows appearance issues
In-Reply-To: <20040210192048.1EFEE930230@mail.runrev.com>
Message-ID: <BC4E903D.4E85%pixelbird@interisland.net>

P.S.

Also, in the Windows preview, after you click a button it leaves a strange
racetrack sort of line around the inside of the button. What is that? It
stays there even after you leave the button. How do I get rid of it?

TIA,
Ken N.


From Roger.E.Eller at sealedair.com  Tue Feb 10 16:39:31 2004
From: Roger.E.Eller at sealedair.com (Roger.E.Eller at sealedair.com)
Date: Tue, 10 Feb 2004 16:39:31 -0500
Subject: Windows appearance issues
Message-ID: <OFD37ACE21.CF8DF4F8-ON85256E36.007610D8@sealedair.com>

> Yechhh!
> 
> I need to fix all this stuff so it looks good in Windows
> 
> How-to suggestions please.
> 
> Ken N.

Windows is very corporate (gray).  OS X is very artistic (colorful).  Mac 
OS 9 is somewhere in between. Therefore, the easiest way to get a 
semi-decent look is to use the built-in emulated Mac lookAndFeel.

set the lookAndFeel to "Macintosh"

If you require that all of your buttons, etc. look exactly the same on all 
platforms, you will have to make everything yourself using images. Chipp 
Walters' Button Gadget makes nice buttons. And I'm sure he could use 
another plasma TV.  :-)

Roger Eller <roger.e.eller at sealedair.com>


From sarahr at genesearch.com.au  Tue Feb 10 16:52:09 2004
From: sarahr at genesearch.com.au (Sarah Reichelt)
Date: Wed, 11 Feb 2004 07:52:09 +1000
Subject: Silly question
In-Reply-To: <BC4DD38C.4E48%pixelbird@interisland.net>
References: <BC4DD38C.4E48%pixelbird@interisland.net>
Message-ID: <5FF6FFAE-5C13-11D8-8E1C-0003937A97B8@genesearch.com.au>

I would guess that you have an openStack or more likely a preOpenStack 
handler in your mainStack that is trying to reference a card of the 
mainStack. When you start opening the substack, this handler gets 
triggered again (because it is in the message hierarchy) but it fails 
because that card does not exist in the substack.

The ways around this are either:
- check for the name of the stack in the mainStack's stack script 
before running any of the open/preOpen/close/preClose handlers
- put the ones that only apply to the mainStack in the first card's 
script instead
- put empty handlers in the substack's script to block the message 
passing.

Cheers,
Sarah

On 10 Feb 2004, at 6:18 pm, Ken Norris wrote:

> Hi,
>
> Why can't I open a substack?
>
> open stack "Help 1 Con" -- name of the stack
>
> .. from the message box returns "can't find card".
>
> TIA,
> Ken N.
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>
>
>


From sarahr at genesearch.com.au  Tue Feb 10 17:00:48 2004
From: sarahr at genesearch.com.au (Sarah Reichelt)
Date: Wed, 11 Feb 2004 08:00:48 +1000
Subject: two questions about images
In-Reply-To: <2C9E9DFE-5C05-11D8-A057-000393DD0724@earthlink.net>
References: <2C9E9DFE-5C05-11D8-A057-000393DD0724@earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <95695C10-5C14-11D8-8E1C-0003937A97B8@genesearch.com.au>

On 11 Feb 2004, at 6:13 am, Andrew wrote:

> Hi everyone.  I have a couple of questions about images.  When 
> importing an image ("as control"), how do you make sure that it goes 
> to the data-bank place (what is that called?) so it can be accessed 
> from every card, rather than just being imported to one card.

If I have a project that requires a lot of images, I make a sub-stack 
that stores them all. I "start using" the images stack and then can 
refer to any of the images by their ID numbers. However you can also 
just import them into any card of your main stack and then any object 
can reference then by ID number. It doesn't matter whether they are on 
the same card or not.

Cheers,
Sarah


From scott at tactilemedia.com  Tue Feb 10 17:06:04 2004
From: scott at tactilemedia.com (Scott Rossi)
Date: Tue, 10 Feb 2004 14:06:04 -0800
Subject: Windows appearance issues
In-Reply-To: <BC4E903D.4E85%pixelbird@interisland.net>
Message-ID: <BC4E95CC.A100%scott@tactilemedia.com>

Recently, "Ken Norris"  wrote:

> Also, in the Windows preview, after you click a button it leaves a strange
> racetrack sort of line around the inside of the button. What is that? It
> stays there even after you leave the button.

This is how Windows shows button focus.

If you are concerned about your app's appearance on Windows (it sounds like
you are), you really should fine tune it on a Window system.  There is a
vast difference between the Mac and Windows appearances (especially OSX).
XP is also a bit different than the Windows versions that came before it.

Regards,

Scott Rossi
Creative Director
Tactile Media, Multimedia & Design
-----
E: scott at tactilemedia.com
W: http://www.tactilemedia.com


From jperryl at ecs.fullerton.edu  Tue Feb 10 17:12:24 2004
From: jperryl at ecs.fullerton.edu (Judy Perry)
Date: Tue, 10 Feb 2004 14:12:24 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Is Transcript's English orientation a plus or minus?
In-Reply-To: <402925E6.113DA1B4@Club-Internet.fr>
Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.4.33.0402101408070.24990-100000@titan.ecs.fullerton.edu>

Sure, this is a perfectly valid point.  Most tools have their place; some
are more extensible or perhaps farther-reaching than others...

I largely have no need for the power/etc. of C et al.  Others likely do.

I would just hate for the elegance and comprehensible nature of xTalks to
be compromised because 'it's not how it's done in C' et al.  Lingo is I
think a good example.  Started out okay, now is "a mishmash of C" and its
original xTalk qualities, with the former taking over the latter...

For the folks who need it, the traditional systems programming languages
will probably always be there.  I just hope that xTalks will, too.

Judy

On Tue, 10 Feb 2004, jbv wrote:

> Funny how many of you seem to always approach this
> discussion as X-talk vs C (or other languages)...
> I already posted a similar remark to this list (or to the MC
> list), but another point of view is possible : the association
> of Xtalk and C can lead to a tremendous power in high end
> projects, Rev & Xtalk being used to build top quality front
> ends (with unbeatable productivity & cost ratios) while C
> being used in externals for critical high end tasks (realtime
> 3D, data base access and many other industrial & scientific
> processes)...


From jperryl at ecs.fullerton.edu  Tue Feb 10 17:15:09 2004
From: jperryl at ecs.fullerton.edu (Judy Perry)
Date: Tue, 10 Feb 2004 14:15:09 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Andy's comments and positioning...
In-Reply-To: <p060102fabc4edae9b813@[10.0.1.3]>
Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.4.33.0402101414490.24990-100000@titan.ecs.fullerton.edu>

Great!  Can't wait to try it.

Thanks, Jeanne!

Judy

On Tue, 10 Feb 2004, Jeanne A. E. DeVoto wrote:

> At 10:21 AM -0800 2/10/04, Judy Perry wrote:
> >I was going to ask about this very solution that Jeanne suggests:
> >
> >How to do it?
> >
> >Sorry if this is a dumb question...
>
> Not at all.
>
> There are various ways to do it, but here's one:
>
> 1. Create a stack with one button. In the button script, put the
> handlers that you would put in the Home stack if this were HC.
>
> 2. In the stack script, put
>       on openStack
>         if the name of button "My Button" \
>            is not among the lines of the backscripts
>         then insert the script of button "My Button" into back
>       end openStack
>
> 3. Save the stack in the Plugins folder.
>
> 4. Choose Development menu > Plugins > Plugin Settings, choose your
> plugin from the menu at the top, then choose "Revolution starts up"
> and "invisible". (For this kind of plugin, you don't need to choose
> any messages to send.)
> --
> jeanne a. e. devoto ~ jaed at jaedworks.com
> http://www.jaedworks.com
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>


From jperryl at ecs.fullerton.edu  Tue Feb 10 17:19:10 2004
From: jperryl at ecs.fullerton.edu (Judy Perry)
Date: Tue, 10 Feb 2004 14:19:10 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Is Transcript's English orientation a plus or minus?
In-Reply-To: <Pine.GSO.4.58.0402101402010.496@vertex.ucls.uchicago.edu>
Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.4.33.0402101415550.24990-100000@titan.ecs.fullerton.edu>

Me too!

I've never really understood why we start by teaching the really confusing
stuff and then offer the higher-level languages LAST (AND wonder why we
have horrendous attrition rates...).

It seems much more intuitive to get people to learn the general things in
a visual environment with natural-language like syntax and then transfer
that understanding to the more 'complicated' languages.

I think Decker even published an article in one of the ACM journals about
using HC back in the day for a CS1 course.

Which gets me back to wondering about the demise of the Analytical Engine
he did using HC and, later (ugh!) ToolBook?

Judy

On Tue, 10 Feb 2004, Marty Billingsley wrote:

> This got me thinking that Rev would be a *great* tool for moving
> students *into* the c/c++/java environment.  My 8th graders understand
>  set the visible of button "x" to false
>    and
>  set the label of button "x" to "whatever"
>
> When they get to high school and prepping for the AP exam, which
> is now in java, it would be really nice to be able to equate the
> above statements with:
>  x.visible = false
>    and
>  x.label = "whatever"
> (may not have the syntax exactly right, but you know what I mean)
>
> This would be a gentle introduction to a confusing syntax (okay,
> confusing to those seeing it for the first time :-).  I'm always
> looking for ways to spend less time on syntax and more time on
> the bigger picture (how to design good programs, etc.).



From squance at elkvalley.net  Tue Feb 10 17:41:22 2004
From: squance at elkvalley.net (David Squance)
Date: Tue, 10 Feb 2004 15:41:22 -0700
Subject: Andy's ... no longer
In-Reply-To: <a0602043bbc4ef7f3c492@[141.89.100.235]>
References: <p060102fabc4edae9b813@[10.0.1.3]>  
 <Pine.GSO.4.33.0402101021040.19092-100000@titan.ecs.fullerton.edu>
 <p060102fabc4edae9b813@[10.0.1.3]>
Message-ID: <l03130301bc4f0daaff56@[192.168.1.100]>

Is there any chance that the keeper of the list archives will update
the subject line of this thread?  I've been trashing these for a few
days now, without looking at them (especially after getting 100 or
so in one day) and now I find useful info with no connection to the
given subject.
Dave

>>At 10:21 AM -0800 2/10/04, Judy Perry wrote:
>>>I was going to ask about this very solution that Jeanne suggests:
>>>
>>>How to do it?
>>>
>>>Sorry if this is a dumb question...
>>
>>Not at all.
>>
>>There are various ways to do it, but here's one:
>>
>>1. Create a stack with one button. In the button script, put the
>>handlers that you would put in the Home stack if this were HC.
>>
>>2. In the stack script, put
>>      on openStack
>>        if the name of button "My Button" \
>>           is not among the lines of the backscripts
>>        then insert the script of button "My Button" into back
>>      end openStack
>>
>>3. Save the stack in the Plugins folder.
>>
>>4. Choose Development menu > Plugins > Plugin Settings, choose your
>>plugin from the menu at the top, then choose "Revolution starts up"
>>and "invisible". (For this kind of plugin, you don't need to choose
>>any messages to send.)
>>--
>>jeanne a. e. devoto ~ jaed at jaedworks.com
>>http://www.jaedworks.com
>
>What is the advantage of inserting backscript as opposed to just
>start using? Aside of course from the difference that I can insert
>script of any object as a backscript.
>
>Robert
>_______________________________________________
>use-revolution mailing list
>use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
>http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution




From jacque at hyperactivesw.com  Tue Feb 10 17:54:18 2004
From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay)
Date: Tue, 10 Feb 2004 16:54:18 -0600
Subject: Andy's comments and positioning...
In-Reply-To: <a0602043bbc4ef7f3c492@[141.89.100.235]>
References: <Pine.GSO.4.33.0402101021040.19092-100000@titan.ecs.fullerton.edu>
	<p060102fabc4edae9b813@[10.0.1.3]> <a0602043bbc4ef7f3c492@[141.89.100.235]>
Message-ID: <4029611A.1040704@hyperactivesw.com>

On 2/10/04 3:06 PM, Robert Brenstein wrote:

> What is the advantage of inserting backscript as opposed to just start 
> using? Aside of course from the difference that I can insert script of 
> any object as a backscript.

No real advantages per se, but there is a minor difference. Scripts that 
are in use are placed before the Home stack. Scripts inserted into the 
back are placed after the Home stack, just before the engine itself.

-- 
Jacqueline Landman Gay         |     jacque at hyperactivesw.com
HyperActive Software           |     http://www.hyperactivesw.com

From kray at sonsothunder.com  Tue Feb 10 18:14:44 2004
From: kray at sonsothunder.com (Ken Ray)
Date: Tue, 10 Feb 2004 17:14:44 -0600
Subject: Windows appearance issues
In-Reply-To: <BC4E8E15.4E7E%pixelbird@interisland.net>
Message-ID: <03ad01c3f02b$aed41360$6601a8c0@LightningFlash>

> I switched to Windows preview, and everything got really 
> ugly. The Square buttons went flat, all turned into the 
> background color, the hilite comes out dark purple, the name 
> text doesn't turn white at hilite, can't tell a default 
> button from anything else, etc.

Welcome to Windows! This is NORMAL (believe it or not). This is called
the "Win95" look and feel - which a lot of Windows apps use. More modern
apps use the Windows XP look and feel (which should be coming to Rev
soon) but for right now, this is normal. 

Ken Ray
Sons of Thunder Software
Email: kray at sonsothunder.com
Web Site: http://www.sonsothunder.com/ 



From kray at sonsothunder.com  Tue Feb 10 18:15:17 2004
From: kray at sonsothunder.com (Ken Ray)
Date: Tue, 10 Feb 2004 17:15:17 -0600
Subject: Windows appearance issues
In-Reply-To: <BC4E95CC.A100%scott@tactilemedia.com>
Message-ID: <03ae01c3f02b$c23ccb90$6601a8c0@LightningFlash>

> > Also, in the Windows preview, after you click a button it leaves a 
> > strange racetrack sort of line around the inside of the 
> button. What 
> > is that? It stays there even after you leave the button.
> 
> This is how Windows shows button focus.

To turn this off, you can set the 'traversalOn' of the button to false. 

Ken Ray
Sons of Thunder Software
Email: kray at sonsothunder.com
Web Site: http://www.sonsothunder.com/ 



From doug at webcrossing.com  Tue Feb 10 18:19:16 2004
From: doug at webcrossing.com (Doug Lerner)
Date: Wed, 11 Feb 2004 08:19:16 +0900
Subject: Is Transcript's English orientation a plus or minus?
In-Reply-To: <1D990E84-5BFE-11D8-AF4C-000A9567A3E6@swcp.com>
Message-ID: <BC4F9604.26334%doug@webcrossing.com>

On 2/11/04 4:19 AM, "Dar Scott" <dsc at swcp.com> wrote:

> In my mind I am not separating xTalk from Transcript from Revolution.

What is xTalk?

doug at never afraid to reveal my ignorance


From pevensen at siboneylg.com  Tue Feb 10 18:37:36 2004
From: pevensen at siboneylg.com (Peter T. Evensen)
Date: Tue, 10 Feb 2004 17:37:36 -0600
Subject: Is Transcript's English orientation a plus or minus? 
In-Reply-To: <002901c3ef7a$ec8a6fd0$1602a8c0@USER>
References: <20040210010859.8513893044D@mail.runrev.com>
 <002901c3ef7a$ec8a6fd0$1602a8c0@USER>
Message-ID: <6.0.1.1.2.20040210173513.01c6e198@SLG_PDC>

Supporting JavaScript is an interesting idea.  I probably wouldn't used it, 
but I wonder if it would bring others to Revolution.

Authorware 7 added support for writing scripts in JavaScript instead of the 
Authorware scripting language.  Not sure why they decided to do that, 
unless they thought it might entice programmers to the Authorware 
camp...  Of course they had to add some Authorware specific objects so you 
could access everything in JS.

At 08:09 PM 2/9/2004, you wrote:
> >(And BTW, if you've ever written a parser you know that
> >adding support for this is trivial, and it will have zero impact on
> >runtime performance.)
>Then why not support JavaScript as an additional syntax to XTalk, at least
>that way it will be consistant. It's not all that difficult either
>http://www.mozilla.org/js/spidermonkey/
>
>OSA supports multiple languages, so does .NET, and HyperCard used to support
>Applescript. It is the framework, the easy way that you can write an app in
>a few minutes with a familier easy to use visual object model that matters
>like Doug said.
>
>These languages are just tools and some people find some tools easier than
>others. Personally I would rather support JavaScript and call it JavaScript
>then impact the readability of the XTalk language for others. AFAIK
>Macromedia didn't scrap lingo but added support for Javascript.
>
>There are many things that can be added to improve the transcript language
>and I'm all for it but prefer to discuss on the improve-list or a list set
>up like the old XTalk list.
>
>Tuviah

Peter T. Evensen
http://www.PetersRoadToHealth.com


From revolution at jaedworks.com  Tue Feb 10 18:53:50 2004
From: revolution at jaedworks.com (Jeanne A. E. DeVoto)
Date: Tue, 10 Feb 2004 15:53:50 -0800
Subject: Is Transcript's English orientation a plus or minus?
In-Reply-To: <BC4F9604.26334%doug@webcrossing.com>
References: <BC4F9604.26334%doug@webcrossing.com>
Message-ID: <p06010245bc4f1f2aab97@[10.0.1.3]>

At 8:19 AM +0900 2/11/04, Doug Lerner wrote:
>What is xTalk?

It's a generic term for the family of languages of which Transcript 
is one. The first was HyperTalk, and several of them have been of the 
form "somethingTalk" (SuperTalk, MetaTalk), hence "xTalk".
-- 
jeanne a. e. devoto ~ jaed at jaedworks.com
http://www.jaedworks.com

From scott at tactilemedia.com  Tue Feb 10 18:54:48 2004
From: scott at tactilemedia.com (Scott Rossi)
Date: Tue, 10 Feb 2004 15:54:48 -0800
Subject: Thread Update
In-Reply-To: <l03130301bc4f0daaff56@[192.168.1.100]>
Message-ID: <BC4EAF48.A114%scott@tactilemedia.com>

Recently, "David Squance"  wrote:

> Is there any chance that the keeper of the list archives will update
> the subject line of this thread?  I've been trashing these for a few
> days now, without looking at them (especially after getting 100 or
> so in one day) and now I find useful info with no connection to the
> given subject.

You can go back through the list archives:

  http://www.google.com/advanced_search?q=site:lists.runrev.com

Or

  http://mindlube.com/cgi-bin/search-use-rev.cgi

Regards,

Scott Rossi
Creative Director
Tactile Media, Multimedia & Design
-----
E: scott at tactilemedia.com
W: http://www.tactilemedia.com


From revdan at danshafer.com  Tue Feb 10 19:27:13 2004
From: revdan at danshafer.com (Dan Shafer)
Date: Tue, 10 Feb 2004 16:27:13 -0800
Subject: Is Transcript's English orientation a plus or minus?
In-Reply-To: <Pine.GSO.4.33.0402101408070.24990-100000@titan.ecs.fullerton.edu>
References: <Pine.GSO.4.33.0402101408070.24990-100000@titan.ecs.fullerton.edu>
Message-ID: <09C52972-5C29-11D8-B1B9-0030656FB5D4@danshafer.com>

I've resisted comment as long as I can. It's torture.

Most of my feelings have been expressed by others, but there is one 
point that I think is perhaps under-appreciated.

The notion that we should add to the Transcript syntax to make the 
program less "beginnerish" (which I agree it isn't anyway except 
compared to the absolutely incomprehensible C and Perl languages, which 
I few as write-only) just because we *can* misses a key point.

A new person coming into the environment and looking for how to do 
something looks at scripts and docs. Unless you not only implement new 
and more complex syntax *in addition to* the regular syntax rather than 
instead of it, but also do not document it and discourage its use in 
scripts a newbie is likely to stumble over while learning, you still 
run the risk of alienating new programmers who look at the (let's face 
it) ugly C-like syntax and immediately head for REALBasic. The only 
other alternative, really, is to resort to levels or layers of access 
in a (generally futile but well-intended) effort to hide this stuff 
from people for whom it might be dangerous.

Nope. I'm with those who say to RunRev, "The syntax is beautiful. We 
don't care if 'real programmers' (whoever *they* are) think it's 
amateurish. We'll be happy to keep making a living by writing apps 
faster and cheaper than all those professionals do because we have a 
language that thinks like we do, not like the compiler does."

Dan out.


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Dan Shafer, Revolutionary
Author of  "Revolution: Software at the Speed of Thought"
http://www.revolutionpros.com for more info
Available at Runtime Revolution Store (http://www.runrev.com/RevPress)


From revdan at danshafer.com  Tue Feb 10 19:28:53 2004
From: revdan at danshafer.com (Dan Shafer)
Date: Tue, 10 Feb 2004 16:28:53 -0800
Subject: Is Transcript's English orientation a plus or minus? 
In-Reply-To: <6.0.1.1.2.20040210173513.01c6e198@SLG_PDC>
References: <20040210010859.8513893044D@mail.runrev.com>
	<002901c3ef7a$ec8a6fd0$1602a8c0@USER>
	<6.0.1.1.2.20040210173513.01c6e198@SLG_PDC>
Message-ID: <458DD3CF-5C29-11D8-B1B9-0030656FB5D4@danshafer.com>


On Feb 10, 2004, at 3:37 PM, Peter T. Evensen wrote:

> Supporting JavaScript is an interesting idea.  I probably wouldn't 
> used it, but I wonder if it would bring others to Revolution.
>
> Authorware 7 added support for writing scripts in JavaScript instead 
> of the Authorware scripting language.  Not sure why they decided to do 
> that, unless they thought it might entice programmers to the 
> Authorware camp...  Of course they had to add some Authorware specific 
> objects so you could access everything in JS.
>
And the new Director supports JavaScript alongside Lingo syntax. My 
bet: it'll just confuse everyone. (And I love Lingo, BTW)



~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Dan Shafer, Revolutionary
Author of  "Revolution: Software at the Speed of Thought"
http://www.revolutionpros.com for more info
Available at Runtime Revolution Store (http://www.runrev.com/RevPress)


From wouter.abraham at pi.be  Tue Feb 10 19:33:58 2004
From: wouter.abraham at pi.be (Wouter)
Date: Wed, 11 Feb 2004 01:33:58 +0100
Subject: version control system (was mission critical apps)
In-Reply-To: <20040210192048.8CA8D930235@mail.runrev.com>
References: <20040210192048.8CA8D930235@mail.runrev.com>
Message-ID: <FB6180C2-5C29-11D8-B3E5-003065CC999E@pi.be>


On 10 Feb 2004, at 20:20, use-revolution-request at lists.runrev.com wrote:

>
> Message: 2
> Date: Tue, 10 Feb 2004 18:12:32 +0000
> From: revolution at knowledgeworks.plus.com
> Subject: Re: version control system (was mission critical apps)
> To: How to use Revolution <use-revolution at lists.runrev.com>
> Message-ID:
> 	<OFEFB93489.5B23C271-ON80256E36.00606DAE 
> -80256E36.00640698 at knowledgeworks.plus.com>
>

snip

>
> I'm sorry Wouter, but I don't understand your question.  Could you
> elaborate?
>
> My idea is that all the components of a stack would be converted to  
> XML so
> that e.g. grepping/formatting/XML tools could be used to  
> edit/manipulate
> the components outside of Rev.  Moreover, the components should be  
> able to
> be selectively re-applied from the VCS e.g. you could go to the VCS and
> browse to a version of a stack from last week, find the component, and
> revert to the code for that component.
>
> Indeed, as more and more data sources are exposing XML interfaces, I'm  
> as
> interested in the principle of being to generate stacks from XML as I  
> am
> in saving stacks as XML.
>
> Bernard


Hello Bernard,
The principle of dissecting stacks into xml and resuscitating them from  
xml
is indeed very interesting.
But stack files are already an optimized kind of document. So I was  
wondering
which would be a more efficient way of archiving stacks, xml-files or  
storing
the binary data in custom properties?
Anyway opening stacks from binary data stored in custom properties is
much faster than reconstructing them from xml.

WA


From pixelbird at interisland.net  Tue Feb 10 19:36:00 2004
From: pixelbird at interisland.net (Ken Norris)
Date: Tue, 10 Feb 2004 16:36:00 -0800
Subject: Windows appearance issues
In-Reply-To: <20040210225509.71A35930367@mail.runrev.com>
Message-ID: <BC4EB8F0.4E91%pixelbird@interisland.net>

Hi Roger,

> Date: Tue, 10 Feb 2004 16:39:31 -0500
> From: Roger.E.Eller at sealedair.com
> Subject: Re: Windows appearance issues

> If you require that all of your buttons, etc. look exactly the same on all
> platforms, you will have to make everything yourself using images. Chipp
> Walters' Button Gadget makes nice buttons. And I'm sure he could use
> another plasma TV.  :-)
------------
Thanks for the info.

Button Gadget is only for Windows AFAIK, but I'm developing on a Mac.

All the best,
Ken N.


From stephenREVOLUTION at barncard.com  Tue Feb 10 20:01:35 2004
From: stephenREVOLUTION at barncard.com (Stephen Quinn Barncard)
Date: Tue, 10 Feb 2004 17:01:35 -0800
Subject: Windows appearance issues
Message-ID: <p0602040abc4f2f1bbc44@[192.168.1.100]>

That's funny, I had a version for OS9 about a year ago....and it was free...

>
>Button Gadget is only for Windows AFAIK, but I'm developing on a Mac.
>
>All the best,
>Ken N.
>

From chipp at chipp.com  Tue Feb 10 20:14:17 2004
From: chipp at chipp.com (Chipp Walters)
Date: Tue, 10 Feb 2004 19:14:17 -0600
Subject: Windows appearance issues
In-Reply-To: <p0602040abc4f2f1bbc44@[192.168.1.100]>
Message-ID: <PKEHJNDKHJJOBHKDGFHKOEIKCBAA.chipp@chipp.com>

I promised ButtonGadget on the Mac, but currently there's a serious bug in
the alphaData routine on the Mac. Should be fixed soon and then I can
port...

best,

Chipp

-----Original Message-----
From: use-revolution-bounces at lists.runrev.com
[mailto:use-revolution-bounces at lists.runrev.com]On Behalf Of Stephen
Quinn Barncard
Sent: Tuesday, February 10, 2004 7:02 PM
To: How to use Revolution
Subject: Re: Windows appearance issues


That's funny, I had a version for OS9 about a year ago....and it was free...

>
>Button Gadget is only for Windows AFAIK, but I'm developing on a Mac.
>
>All the best,
>Ken N.
>
_______________________________________________
use-revolution mailing list
use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution


From rjb at rz.uni-potsdam.de  Tue Feb 10 20:18:05 2004
From: rjb at rz.uni-potsdam.de (Robert Brenstein)
Date: Wed, 11 Feb 2004 02:18:05 +0100
Subject: Is Transcript's English orientation a plus or minus?
In-Reply-To: <458DD3CF-5C29-11D8-B1B9-0030656FB5D4@danshafer.com>
References: <20040210010859.8513893044D@mail.runrev.com>
 <002901c3ef7a$ec8a6fd0$1602a8c0@USER>
 <6.0.1.1.2.20040210173513.01c6e198@SLG_PDC>
 <458DD3CF-5C29-11D8-B1B9-0030656FB5D4@danshafer.com>
Message-ID: <a06020447bc4f30a612aa@[141.89.100.235]>

>On Feb 10, 2004, at 3:37 PM, Peter T. Evensen wrote:
>
>>Supporting JavaScript is an interesting idea.  I probably wouldn't 
>>used it, but I wonder if it would bring others to Revolution.
>>
>>Authorware 7 added support for writing scripts in JavaScript 
>>instead of the Authorware scripting language.  Not sure why they 
>>decided to do that, unless they thought it might entice programmers 
>>to the Authorware camp...  Of course they had to add some 
>>Authorware specific objects so you could access everything in JS.
>>
>And the new Director supports JavaScript alongside Lingo syntax. My 
>bet: it'll just confuse everyone. (And I love Lingo, BTW)

If RunRev decides to add JavaScript just to be in par with those 
other environments and atract more users, so let be it. I can trust 
that they implement it reasonaly. After all, this can be done (as 
someone suggested) in an OSA-like approach, eliminating any potential 
confusion and keeping Transcript as we know it. However, I really, 
really hope that RunRev first finishes all the things they've already 
started (ie recent pr's), puts a true and serious effort into bug 
hunting (it seem they are getting serious about this), and implements 
the enhancements requested by the current user base. I think that one 
of the selling points of MetaCard was its reputation of being 
rock-solid. Rev should strive for the same.

Robert

From frank at backtalk.com  Tue Feb 10 20:29:15 2004
From: frank at backtalk.com (Frank Leahy)
Date: Wed, 11 Feb 2004 01:29:15 +0000
Subject: Is Transcript's English orientation a plus or minus? 
In-Reply-To: <20040211011455.E76F09303D6@mail.runrev.com>
Message-ID: <B4624B43-5C31-11D8-B678-000A9580FCCE@backtalk.com>


On Wednesday, February 11, 2004, at 01:14  AM, 
use-revolution-request at lists.runrev.com wrote:
>
>> Supporting JavaScript is an interesting idea.  I probably wouldn't
>> used it, but I wonder if it would bring others to Revolution.
>>
>>
> And the new Director supports JavaScript alongside Lingo syntax. My
> bet: it'll just confuse everyone. (And I love Lingo, BTW)
>
> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
> Dan Shafer, Revolutionary
>

Hah!  Lingo supports = (equal sign) as an assignment operator (plus 
lots of overloading +=, -=, etc.), so I guess "x = 1" can't be all that 
bad :-)

My bet is that it will lower the barrier against using it for those who 
know Javascript already -- "Hmmm, Director has Javascript syntax?  
Maybe it won't take as long to get up to speed as I previously thought 
it would."

-- Frank


From revolution at knowledgeworks.plus.com  Tue Feb 10 20:31:46 2004
From: revolution at knowledgeworks.plus.com (revolution at knowledgeworks.plus.com)
Date: Wed, 11 Feb 2004 01:31:46 +0000
Subject: version control system (was mission critical apps)
Message-ID: <OFA006B694.E93DC5A1-ON80256E37.0007D596-80256E37.00086703@knowledgeworks.plus.com>

Wouter wrote
>>
opening stacks from binary data stored in custom properties is
much faster than reconstructing them from xml
<<

Hi Wouter,

I agree.  But I think for the kind of VCS/integration projects which I 
imagine, then the speed would be a suitable trade-off for the flexibility 
of being able to manipulate one's stacks outside of the IDE.

Bernard

From dsc at swcp.com  Tue Feb 10 20:36:24 2004
From: dsc at swcp.com (Dar Scott)
Date: Tue, 10 Feb 2004 18:36:24 -0700
Subject: Is Transcript's English orientation a plus or minus?
In-Reply-To: <a06020447bc4f30a612aa@[141.89.100.235]>
Message-ID: <B412ED0D-5C32-11D8-AF4C-000A9567A3E6@swcp.com>


On Tuesday, February 10, 2004, at 06:18 PM, Robert Brenstein wrote:

> I think that one of the selling points of MetaCard was its reputation 
> of being rock-solid. Rev should strive for the same.

Revolution might have a larger customer base and a customer base 
consisting of a broader range of customers.  This might contribute to a 
greater number of reported bugs as every nook and cranny is trampled.  
So for RunRev to maintain a like reputation of Revolution being 
rock-solid, the product may have to be many times over more rock-solid. 
  RunRev should strive for that.

Dar Scott


From pixelbird at interisland.net  Tue Feb 10 20:37:16 2004
From: pixelbird at interisland.net (Ken Norris)
Date: Tue, 10 Feb 2004 17:37:16 -0800
Subject: Windows appearance issues
In-Reply-To: <20040211011455.C9B089303D0@mail.runrev.com>
Message-ID: <BC4EC74C.4EA3%pixelbird@interisland.net>

Hi Chipp,

> Date: Tue, 10 Feb 2004 19:14:17 -0600
> From: "Chipp Walters" <chipp at chipp.com>
> Subject: RE: Windows appearance issues

> I promised ButtonGadget on the Mac, but currently there's a serious bug in
> the alphaData routine on the Mac. Should be fixed soon and then I can
> port...
---------
Gotcha!

Ken N.


From lists at mangomultimedia.com  Tue Feb 10 20:40:02 2004
From: lists at mangomultimedia.com (Trevor DeVore)
Date: Tue, 10 Feb 2004 18:40:02 -0700
Subject: Is Transcript's English orientation a plus or minus? 
In-Reply-To: <6.0.1.1.2.20040210173513.01c6e198@SLG_PDC>
References: <20040210010859.8513893044D@mail.runrev.com>
	<002901c3ef7a$ec8a6fd0$1602a8c0@USER>
	<6.0.1.1.2.20040210173513.01c6e198@SLG_PDC>
Message-ID: <3626638A-5C33-11D8-A5EC-000A956C462A@mangomultimedia.com>

On Feb 10, 2004, at 4:37 PM, Peter T. Evensen wrote:

> Supporting JavaScript is an interesting idea.  I probably wouldn't 
> used it, but I wonder if it would bring others to Revolution.
>
> Authorware 7 added support for writing scripts in JavaScript instead 
> of the Authorware scripting language.  Not sure why they decided to do 
> that, unless they thought it might entice programmers to the 
> Authorware camp...  Of course they had to add some Authorware specific 
> objects so you could access everything in JS.

Probably because Authorware's scripting language was such a pain :-)

That was the first scripting language I was exposed to and I'm glad 
those days are behind me.


-- 
Trevor DeVore
Blue Mango Multimedia
trevor at mangomultimedia.com


From dsc at swcp.com  Tue Feb 10 20:44:28 2004
From: dsc at swcp.com (Dar Scott)
Date: Tue, 10 Feb 2004 18:44:28 -0700
Subject: version control system (was mission critical apps)
In-Reply-To: <FB6180C2-5C29-11D8-B3E5-003065CC999E@pi.be>
Message-ID: <D437685E-5C33-11D8-AF4C-000A9567A3E6@swcp.com>


On Tuesday, February 10, 2004, at 05:33 PM, Wouter wrote:

> Anyway opening stacks from binary data stored in custom properties is
> much faster than reconstructing them from xml.

I have been pondering approaches like this.

Setting a stack's password property can destroy binary data, so care 
must be taken to not do that or to store save the data in a safe form.

Dar Scott


From scott at tactilemedia.com  Tue Feb 10 21:05:36 2004
From: scott at tactilemedia.com (Scott Rossi)
Date: Tue, 10 Feb 2004 18:05:36 -0800
Subject: Is Transcript's English orientation a plus or minus?
In-Reply-To: <B412ED0D-5C32-11D8-AF4C-000A9567A3E6@swcp.com>
Message-ID: <BC4ECDF0.9EA5%scott@tactilemedia.com>

>> I think that one of the selling points of MetaCard was its reputation
>> of being rock-solid. Rev should strive for the same.
> 
> Revolution might have a larger customer base and a customer base
> consisting of a broader range of customers.  This might contribute to a
> greater number of reported bugs as every nook and cranny is trampled.
> So for RunRev to maintain a like reputation of Revolution being
> rock-solid, the product may have to be many times over more rock-solid.
> RunRev should strive for that.

Related: when you come across an issue that hinders your project, make sure
to test the problem with the Rev IDE suspended.  More often than not, you
may find the issue is IDE related, and not a fault of the underlying engine.
The Rev IDE is still very new compared to what drives it.  Even MC's
idiosyncrasies could be bypassed in many cases by circumventing the IDE.

While I can't say I've pushed the engine as hard as the combined talent of
this list, in my experience the engine's performance has been exceptional.

Regards,

Scott Rossi
Creative Director
Tactile Media, Development & Design
-----
E: scott at tactilemedia.com
W: http://www.tactilemedia.com


From jperryl at ecs.fullerton.edu  Tue Feb 10 21:13:47 2004
From: jperryl at ecs.fullerton.edu (Judy Perry)
Date: Tue, 10 Feb 2004 18:13:47 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Is Transcript's English orientation a plus or minus? 
In-Reply-To: <458DD3CF-5C29-11D8-B1B9-0030656FB5D4@danshafer.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.4.33.0402101813010.6908-100000@titan.ecs.fullerton.edu>

Ahhhh, but which Lingo?  Verbose or dot.syntax?

(Which I daresay confuses people just as you suggested in your previous
post).

Judy

On Tue, 10 Feb 2004, Dan Shafer wrote:

> And the new Director supports JavaScript alongside Lingo syntax. My
> bet: it'll just confuse everyone. (And I love Lingo, BTW)


From dsc at swcp.com  Tue Feb 10 22:23:42 2004
From: dsc at swcp.com (Dar Scott)
Date: Tue, 10 Feb 2004 20:23:42 -0700
Subject: Is Transcript's English orientation a plus or minus?
In-Reply-To: <BC4ECDF0.9EA5%scott@tactilemedia.com>
Message-ID: <B10F2C98-5C41-11D8-AF4C-000A9567A3E6@swcp.com>


On Tuesday, February 10, 2004, at 07:05 PM, Scott Rossi wrote:

> While I can't say I've pushed the engine as hard as the combined 
> talent of
> this list, in my experience the engine's performance has been 
> exceptional.

I find this interesting.  And frustrating.

When the general assumption among the community is that the engine is 
perfect, then bug reports are considered spurious.

When I first started using Revolution two years ago, I assumed bugs 
would be fixed quickly.  This was a stupid and costly error on my part. 
  The roadblock I hit was the logic that Metacard is perfect, therefore 
the bug reports are wrong.  One crucial bug took over 7 months to fix.  
There were a handful of sockets bugs and yet folks were blindly using 
Revolution for all kinds of Internet apps. (The open process bugs are a 
mess and I don't even bother to report those any more.)  Did folks see 
my bugs and wonder whether that would affect their internet apps?  I 
didn't see it.  I suggested to one person his problems might be related 
to mine and his went away after mine were fixed and he shrugged it off. 
  Another complained that libURL was flakey.  Well, duh!

The best way to make the engine rock-solid is to knock over the idol.

Dar Scott




From sarahr at genesearch.com.au  Tue Feb 10 22:37:48 2004
From: sarahr at genesearch.com.au (Sarah Reichelt)
Date: Wed, 11 Feb 2004 13:37:48 +1000
Subject: MacWorld Editor's Choice
Message-ID: <A956075C-5C43-11D8-8E1C-0003937A97B8@genesearch.com.au>

Excerpt from the web page announcing the MacWorld Editor's Choice 
products for 2003:

Best Development Software

HyperCard, with its stacks metaphor, has a new heir in Runtime 
Revolution's Revolution Studio 2.1 ($299; www.runrev.com). It's the 
simplest write-once, deploy-everywhere solution, and it has enhanced 
support for OS X interface elements. Wonderful documentation and 
ambitious support for Internet infrastructure top off the package.


Anyone interested in the full list, can read it here:
	http://www.macworld.com/2004/02/features/editorschoiceawards2004/

Another award for the RunRev trophy cabinet - congratulations!

Sarah
sarahr at genesearch.com.au
http://www.troz.net/Rev/


From rjb at rz.uni-potsdam.de  Tue Feb 10 22:54:09 2004
From: rjb at rz.uni-potsdam.de (Robert Brenstein)
Date: Wed, 11 Feb 2004 04:54:09 +0100
Subject: Is Transcript's English orientation a plus or minus?
In-Reply-To: <B10F2C98-5C41-11D8-AF4C-000A9567A3E6@swcp.com>
References: <B10F2C98-5C41-11D8-AF4C-000A9567A3E6@swcp.com>
Message-ID: <a0602044bbc4f552aa6fe@[141.89.100.235]>

>On Tuesday, February 10, 2004, at 07:05 PM, Scott Rossi wrote:
>
>>While I can't say I've pushed the engine as hard as the combined talent of
>>this list, in my experience the engine's performance has been exceptional.
>
>I find this interesting.  And frustrating.
>
>When the general assumption among the community is that the engine 
>is perfect, then bug reports are considered spurious.
>
>When I first started using Revolution two years ago, I assumed bugs 
>would be fixed quickly.  This was a stupid and costly error on my 
>part.  The roadblock I hit was the logic that Metacard is perfect, 
>therefore the bug reports are wrong.  One crucial bug took over 7 
>months to fix.  There were a handful of sockets bugs and yet folks 
>were blindly using Revolution for all kinds of Internet apps. (The 
>open process bugs are a mess and I don't even bother to report those 
>any more.)  Did folks see my bugs and wonder whether that would 
>affect their internet apps?  I didn't see it.  I suggested to one 
>person his problems might be related to mine and his went away after 
>mine were fixed and he shrugged it off.  Another complained that 
>libURL was flakey.  Well, duh!
>
>The best way to make the engine rock-solid is to knock over the idol.
>
>Dar Scott

Nobody said perfect. Rock-solid does not mean bug-free. No program 
that has some complexity ever is. But MetaCard crashed barely ever (I 
found a couple ways to crash it but I was pushing it), most features 
worked as expected, and bugs were addressed in a reasonable time. I 
don't think we are trying to idealize/idolize MC. It was not perfect. 
But we want Rev to reach its level and better.

One significantly different thing about Rev is that not all 
features/functionality are implemented in the engine. And Rev team 
added a whole bunch of new stuff on top or next to the old stuff 
(when the two were developed in parallel). And Rev's IDE is so much 
more complex and introduces a number of kinks and funky behaviors 
that go away when it is turned off.

Robert

From alex at mindlube.com  Tue Feb 10 23:49:30 2004
From: alex at mindlube.com (Alex Rice)
Date: Tue, 10 Feb 2004 21:49:30 -0700
Subject: Is Transcript's English orientation a plus or minus?
In-Reply-To: <B10F2C98-5C41-11D8-AF4C-000A9567A3E6@swcp.com>
References: <B10F2C98-5C41-11D8-AF4C-000A9567A3E6@swcp.com>
Message-ID: <AD96C6C2-5C4D-11D8-86E9-000393C4760A@mindlube.com>


On Feb 10, 2004, at 8:23 PM, Dar Scott wrote:

> The best way to make the engine rock-solid is to knock over the idol.

Are you talking concrete, or just sedimentary sandstone or volcanic 
pumice? I used to prefer the term "bullet proof" but I recently viewed 
on The Science Channel that the firing of a spear point with a high 
velocity air cannon into a coat of replica Viking chain-mail...
oh never mind.   ;-)

I think I agree with what you are saying. To paraphrase: Let's never 
let cheerleading and advocacy blind us to actual bugs, which obviously 
can occur even in the metacard "engine" and not just in the Runrev IDE.

--
Alex Rice | Mindlube Software | http://mindlube.com


From gcanyon at inspiredlogic.com  Wed Feb 11 00:52:03 2004
From: gcanyon at inspiredlogic.com (Geoff Canyon)
Date: Tue, 10 Feb 2004 21:52:03 -0800
Subject: Array question again.
In-Reply-To: <20040210153351.13E963CF0@xprdmailfe4.nwk.excite.com>
References: <20040210153351.13E963CF0@xprdmailfe4.nwk.excite.com>
Message-ID: <6ACEA336-5C56-11D8-A68D-003065683ECC@inspiredlogic.com>

delete variable a

That clears the entire variable.

regards,

Geoff Canyon
gcanyon at inspiredlogic.com

On Feb 10, 2004, at 7:33 AM, Kevin wrote:

>
>
> My question is regarding the underpinnings more than anything else.  
> If I put empty into a[0] is a[0,1] a[0,2] ... also garb rage collected 
> or must I set each individual element equal to empty to ensure 
> collection?
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Join Excite! - http://www.excite.com
> The most personalized portal on the Web!
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>


From scott at tactilemedia.com  Wed Feb 11 01:14:37 2004
From: scott at tactilemedia.com (Scott Rossi)
Date: Tue, 10 Feb 2004 22:14:37 -0800
Subject: Is Transcript's English orientation a plus or minus?
In-Reply-To: <B10F2C98-5C41-11D8-AF4C-000A9567A3E6@swcp.com>
Message-ID: <BC4F084D.9EC4%scott@tactilemedia.com>

On 2/10/04 7:23 PM, "Dar Scott" <dsc at swcp.com> wrote:

>> While I can't say I've pushed the engine as hard as the combined
>> talent of
>> this list, in my experience the engine's performance has been
>> exceptional.
> 
> I find this interesting.  And frustrating.
> 
> When the general assumption among the community is that the engine is
> perfect, then bug reports are considered spurious.

Hmm.  I did try to qualify my post with "in my experience..." but maybe that
was too subtle.  In any event, what *I* find frustrating is that you seem to
have ignored the message of my message.  What I suggested was, try to check
for problems you encounter outside the IDE.  You *might* get lucky and find
the problem was IDE related, not a fault of the engine.  Not only does this
benefit you, it will benefit the Rev guys in helping to track down where the
problem may reside.  I don't see how this suggestion lessens the importance
of bug reports.

BTW, if you re-read my post, you may notice that the word "perfect" is not
used anywhere.

Regards,

Scott Rossi
Creative Director
Tactile Media, Development & Design
-----
E: scott at tactilemedia.com
W: http://www.tactilemedia.com


From 3mcgrath at adelphia.net  Wed Feb 11 01:25:46 2004
From: 3mcgrath at adelphia.net (Thomas McGrath III)
Date: Wed, 11 Feb 2004 01:25:46 -0500
Subject: Windows appearance issues
In-Reply-To: <BC4E903D.4E85%pixelbird@interisland.net>
References: <BC4E903D.4E85%pixelbird@interisland.net>
Message-ID: <20C50413-5C5B-11D8-ADC1-000A95DA60FA@adelphia.net>

Ken,
That is the default tabbed control 'whatever' in windows. What it means 
is that that is the back most button and will be hit upon when the user 
hits 'enter'. You have to turn off all the selection stuff, you know, 
the traversal stuff etc. and leave only what you need for it to act 
like a button. I had this problem. It seems that windows users don't 
mind this look and enjoy the use of it. Also I just rebuilt my own set 
of buttons and hard coded them the way I wanted with color and drop 
shadows etc. and did not use OSX or Windows to avoid the ugliness and 
big differences, now they look the same on either system. Also I 
changed the accent color to match my new buttons and color scheme.

FWIW

Tom
On Feb 10, 2004, at 4:42 PM, Ken Norris wrote:

> P.S.
>
> Also, in the Windows preview, after you click a button it leaves a 
> strange
> racetrack sort of line around the inside of the button. What is that? 
> It
> stays there even after you leave the button. How do I get rid of it?
>
> TIA,
> Ken N.
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>
>

Thomas J. McGrath III
SCS
1000 Killarney Dr.
Pittsburgh, PA 15234
412-885-8541


From dsc at swcp.com  Wed Feb 11 02:13:30 2004
From: dsc at swcp.com (Dar Scott)
Date: Wed, 11 Feb 2004 00:13:30 -0700
Subject: Is Transcript's English orientation a plus or minus?
In-Reply-To: <B412ED0D-5C32-11D8-AF4C-000A9567A3E6@swcp.com>
Message-ID: <CB753DFE-5C61-11D8-AF4C-000A9567A3E6@swcp.com>


On Tuesday, February 10, 2004, at 06:36 PM, Dar Scott wrote:

>> I think that one of the selling points of MetaCard was its reputation 
>> of being rock-solid. Rev should strive for the same.
>
> Revolution might have a larger customer base and a customer base 
> consisting of a broader range of customers.  This might contribute to 
> a greater number of reported bugs as every nook and cranny is 
> trampled.  So for RunRev to maintain a like reputation of Revolution 
> being rock-solid, the product may have to be many times over more 
> rock-solid.  RunRev should strive for that.

I did not mean to bait the list with this.  And it was silly of me to 
respond to responses.

I apologize to the whole list and especially to Scott Rossi.

Dar Scott


From slynch at richmond.sd38.bc.ca  Wed Feb 11 02:11:24 2004
From: slynch at richmond.sd38.bc.ca (Stewart Lynch)
Date: Tue, 10 Feb 2004 23:11:24 -0800
Subject: Answer File with Filter
Message-ID: <fc.00231a3c015d76a600231a3c015d76a6.15d76ef@richmond.sd38.bc.ca>

I am writing a cross platform application in Revolution that will be
distributed as a runtime version.  The data files are stacks and they all
end in .mmb and have a creator code of MMB1 and a filetype of MMB_

Everything works fine if I create the data files on a Mac and move them
over to the PC as I use the following for the MacOS 
answer file "Select a database file:" with filter "Select a MiniMarkBook
File:" & return & "MiniMarkBook files,*.mmb"

and 

answer file "Select a MiniMarkBook file:" with filter "*.mmb" 

if the application is run on a PC.

However, if the file is created on the PC and moved to the MacOS, the
files do not get recognized since the PC does not create the Creator/File
Type resource.

>From reading the documentation, I thought that I could use the "with
filter" designation on the Mac and just ignore the Creator/File Type. 
However this does not appear to be the case.

Under MacOS X (I have not tried under classic mode) the 'with filter'
parameter does not work.  Non of the .mmb files are recognized.

Am I doing something wrong?

Is there a solution?


*******************************************
........
:  o/  : Stewart Lynch
: <|   : Director of Instruction, Technology and Information Services
: / >  : Richmond School District
:......:   Richmond, BC Canada
Internet: slynch at richmond.sd38.bc.ca
https://public.sd38.bc.ca/~slynch
tel. (604) 668-6128 fax: (604) 668-6006
*******************************************



From ambassador at fourthworld.com  Wed Feb 11 03:09:06 2004
From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin)
Date: Wed, 11 Feb 2004 00:09:06 -0800
Subject: Answer File with Filter
In-Reply-To: <fc.00231a3c015d76a600231a3c015d76a6.15d76ef@richmond.sd38.bc.ca>
Message-ID: <BC4F2321.3D233%ambassador@fourthworld.com>

Stewart Lynch wrote:

> I am writing a cross platform application in Revolution that will be
> distributed as a runtime version.  The data files are stacks and they all
> end in .mmb and have a creator code of MMB1 and a filetype of MMB_

There are two applications using "mmb" currently.  Neither seems popular so
it may be just fine, or you could try finding a unique variant at:

<http://filext.com/>

-- 
 Richard Gaskin 
 Fourth World Media Corporation
 Developer of WebMerge: Publish any database on any Web site
 ___________________________________________________________
 Ambassador at FourthWorld.com       http://www.FourthWorld.com


From wouter.abraham at pi.be  Wed Feb 11 04:41:17 2004
From: wouter.abraham at pi.be (Wouter)
Date: Wed, 11 Feb 2004 10:41:17 +0100
Subject: version control system (was mission critical apps)
In-Reply-To: <20040211040056.BA00193042A@mail.runrev.com>
References: <20040211040056.BA00193042A@mail.runrev.com>
Message-ID: <70DA0E0C-5C76-11D8-B3E5-003065CC999E@pi.be>


On 11 Feb 2004, at 05:00, use-revolution-request at lists.runrev.com wrote:

> Message: 6
> Date: Tue, 10 Feb 2004 18:44:28 -0700
> From: Dar Scott <dsc at swcp.com>
> Subject: Re: version control system (was mission critical apps)
> To: How to use Revolution <use-revolution at lists.runrev.com>
> Message-ID: <D437685E-5C33-11D8-AF4C-000A9567A3E6 at swcp.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed
>
>
> On Tuesday, February 10, 2004, at 05:33 PM, Wouter wrote:
>
>> Anyway opening stacks from binary data stored in custom properties is
>> much faster than reconstructing them from xml.
>
> I have been pondering approaches like this.
>
> Setting a stack's password property can destroy binary data, so care
> must be taken to not do that or to store save the data in a safe form.
>
> Dar Scott

Hi Dar,
Yes that's true, but who is going to password protect
a stack for a VCS project? A xml turn out wouldn't be very
useful either.	
(binary data destruction by password protection is already
a long standing problem for which the "save data in safe form"
step is indeed still necessary if password protecting)

Greetings,
WA


From opus.species at wanadoo.fr  Wed Feb 11 04:50:11 2004
From: opus.species at wanadoo.fr (opus.species at wanadoo.fr)
Date: Wed, 11 Feb 2004 10:50:11 +0100
Subject: Revolution IS rock-solid
In-Reply-To: <20040211040056.BA00193042A@mail.runrev.com>
References: <20040211040056.BA00193042A@mail.runrev.com>
Message-ID: <opr269lxna7hj683@smtp.wanadoo.fr>

A discussion started about the "rock-solidity" of Revolution

>>> Scott Rossi wrote:
>>> While I can't say I've pushed the engine as hard as the combined 
>>> talent of
>>> this list, in my experience the engine's performance has been 
>>> exceptional.

>> When the general assumption among the community is that the engine is 
>> perfect, then bug reports are considered spurious.
>> ...
>> The best way to make the engine rock-solid is to knock over the idol.
>> Dar Scott

> Nobody said perfect. Rock-solid does not mean bug-free. No program that 
> has some complexity ever is. But MetaCard crashed barely ever (I found a 
> couple ways to crash it but I was pushing it), most features worked as 
> expected, and bugs were addressed in a reasonable time. I don't think we 
> are trying to idealize/idolize MC. It was not perfect. But we want Rev 
> to reach its level and better.
> One significantly different thing about Rev is that not all 
> features/functionality are implemented in the engine. And Rev team added 
> a whole bunch of new stuff on top or next to the old stuff (when the two 
> were developed in parallel). And Rev's IDE is so much more complex and 
> introduces a number of kinks and funky behaviors that go away when it is 
> turned off.
> Robert

For people new to this list, i mean that it is important to be clear on 
the topic "can they be confident in deciding to use revolution for a 
professional project".

When i produce cd-rom, i use Revolution 8 to 12 hours a day for weeks. 
"Rock-solidity" is a key feature for me.

First short and after longer.

SHORT
For me Revolution 2.12 is Rock-solid and i can rely on it for days and 
days of work.
Metacard 2.5 was rock-solid. Revolution 1 was not.

LONG
When you use a development tools professionaly, there are 4 levels of 
problems what can arise
1) your file is corrupt, all your work since the last incremental backup 
is lost
2) there is an internal bug in the develoment tools forbidding your 
application to work
3) there is a bug between the development tool and then system environment 
forbidding your application to work
4) there are crashes in the development tools, you have sometimes to stop 
and restart

My findings

1) about file corruption
File corruption was frequent in Hypercard and Supercard ; you had to keep 
incremental backups very often.
I never had a file corruption neither with metacard nor with revolution.
OK i still continue top make incremental backups because i am used to, but 
now it is mainly to prevent an hypothetical failure of my hard drive...

2) internal bug
I do not know about any internal bug neither in Metacard nor in 
revolution. And if one was discovered, i can be confident that it would 
solved in a very short time.

3) bug between the development tool and the system
Metacard was famous for its ability to bug with the video drivers. It was 
at the time of mc 2.2. At a certain time all these problems disappeared (i 
believe that it was with mc 2.3 or 2.4 ; i suspect that at this time Scott 
Raney got new libraries to manage jpeg decompression). For me this bugs 
belong to the past and i did not meet them for years now.
Some people on this list reportted bugs in the managment of sockets ; 
other people use daily sockets without trubble for pop, smtp, ftp...
On such a new matter it is difficult to say where the problem lie : in 
Revolution, in the quality of scripts, in the servers...
There are a lot of discussions on these topics on this list ; open source 
code is regularily given by successfull developpers.
I guess that the next release of Revolution will greatly improve socket 
managment.

4) crashes of the IDE
The Revolution 2.12 IDE is for me reasonably solid. Some days i do not 
crash once ; some days i crash one or two times (in a 8 to 12 hours 
work-day).
This is perfectly acceptable for a professional use.
I program on a Windows XP computer with 512 MO ram. For a professional use 
it is a minimum. On a lower computer, problem can arise from a short 
memory if you open Revolution in the same time as media editors, but thats 
a Windows problem...
The MC IDE was too ligth for beginners, fine for developpers, poorly 
documented ; the Rev IDE is suitable for beginners and for developpers, it 
is well documented. No IDE is perfect but the IDE of revolution is at 
least as good as the IDE of the other tools in competition.

That was just a testimony

Claude




From ttasovac at princeton.edu  Wed Feb 11 04:10:06 2004
From: ttasovac at princeton.edu (Toma Tasovac)
Date: Wed, 11 Feb 2004 10:10:06 +0100
Subject: search fields (as in Finder, Safari, iTunes)
In-Reply-To: <BC4E8571.A0F1%scott@tactilemedia.com>
References: <BC4E8571.A0F1%scott@tactilemedia.com>
Message-ID: <155BC7E7-5C72-11D8-BA48-000A95C45C8C@princeton.edu>

Thanks, Chris.

On Feb 10, 2004, at 9:56 PM, Scott Rossi wrote:
>
>> I would like to have a
>> search field that looks like the OS X search field in Finder, google
>> field in Safari etc., i.e. a field which is semicircular at both ends.
>> Clicking on this kind field should focus on its entire border, i.e. 
>> the
>> blue line should go around the entire field.
>
> You would have to create an image of a rounded field border and place 
> your
> actual field on top of the image (make the field transparent).  If you 
> want
> a focus border to also have rounded corners, you need to create your 
> own
> rounded hilite image to act as the focus border, and script its 
> behavior.
> It's a bit of work but very doable.
>
> Regards,
>
> Scott Rossi
> Creative Director
> Tactile Media, Multimedia & Design
> -----
> E: scott at tactilemedia.com
> W: http://www.tactilemedia.com
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution


From ambassador at fourthworld.com  Wed Feb 11 06:00:13 2004
From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin)
Date: Wed, 11 Feb 2004 03:00:13 -0800
Subject: SoCal RevDevCon
Message-ID: <BC4F4B3D.3D252%ambassador@fourthworld.com>

It's about time for another SoCal RevDevCon, our informal gatherings of
local Rev developers in which we geek out over dinner and presentations.

We haven't picked a date yet, but it should be in the first half of March.

Respecting the bandwidth of this list, I've set up a separate dicussion
group for SoCal RevDev busines:

<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/socalrev/>

If you're in Southern California and would like to attend, just sign up
there.

Once we get the date and itenerary I'll post a message to this list to make
sure folks know, but lets do the boring planning stuff on Yahoo so this list
can stay OT.

-- 
 Richard Gaskin 
 Fourth World Media Corporation
 ___________________________________________________________
 Ambassador at FourthWorld.com       http://www.FourthWorld.com


From ttasovac at princeton.edu  Wed Feb 11 07:42:45 2004
From: ttasovac at princeton.edu (Toma Tasovac)
Date: Wed, 11 Feb 2004 13:42:45 +0100
Subject: XML tree-view as a database frontend in Rev? 
Message-ID: <CAC1859B-5C8F-11D8-BA48-000A95C45C8C@princeton.edu>

I have a highly structured mySQL database which I am using as a content 
depository for a dictionary project. The db is designed in such a way 
that each dictionary entry follows the TEI XML guidelines.  I would 
like to build an XML tree view of database records and allow the user 
to edit the records in the tree view (similar to the way it's done in 
the example stack xmltree-view which comes with Rev).

So far, I have learned how to query, select, display and edit mySQL 
records in Rev, but I am having difficulties making the jump toward XML 
in Rev.  What would be the right place to start when trying to 
implement the Rev xml tree parsing abilities as a database frontend?  
In other words, what would be the most straightforward way of telling 
Rev. to display a set of db records in the xml tree view?  And then 
telling the database to update the records based on the changes made in 
the xml tree view.

Any pointers would be greatly appreciated.

All best,
Toma


From kbomb at umich.edu  Wed Feb 11 08:49:09 2004
From: kbomb at umich.edu (Dennis F. Kahlbaum)
Date: Wed, 11 Feb 2004 08:49:09 -0500
Subject: Help Needed: What is the best way to display/edit arrays?
Message-ID: <402A32D6.8DC9342D@umich.edu>

I have two 24-cell arrays that need to be displayed to and edited by the
user.  I've tried a field with a vertical grid, but that doesn't always
work properly (if you hit the tab key, the cursor moves to the right
into a new column (bad), if you hit the return key, the cursor goes down
to a new row (good). But many users hit tab to go between entries).
Setting up 48 fields to display and enter/edit array data is cumbersome
and error prone. Therefore, what is the best way in Rev to display and
edit arrays interactively?

Thanks in advance for your help.

Dennis F. Kahlbaum
University of Michigan



From isb at macconnect.com  Wed Feb 11 09:37:31 2004
From: isb at macconnect.com (Ed McCabe)
Date: Wed, 11 Feb 2004 09:37:31 -0500
Subject: <no subject>
Message-ID: <BC4FA824.1729%isb@macconnect.com>

Dan said:

I've resisted comment as long as I can. It's torture.

Most of my feelings have been expressed by others, but there is one
point that I think is perhaps under-appreciated.

The notion that we should add to the Transcript syntax to make the
program less "beginnerish" (which I agree it isn't anyway except
compared to the absolutely incomprehensible C and Perl languages, which
I few as write-only) just because we *can* misses a key point.

A new person coming into the environment and looking for how to do
something looks at scripts and docs. Unless you not only implement new
and more complex syntax *in addition to* the regular syntax rather than
instead of it, but also do not document it and discourage its use in
scripts a newbie is likely to stumble over while learning, you still
run the risk of alienating new programmers who look at the (let's face
it) ugly C-like syntax and immediately head for REALBasic. The only
other alternative, really, is to resort to levels or layers of access
in a (generally futile but well-intended) effort to hide this stuff
from people for whom it might be dangerous.

Nope. I'm with those who say to RunRev, "The syntax is beautiful. We
don't care if 'real programmers' (whoever *they* are) think it's
amateurish. We'll be happy to keep making a living by writing apps
faster and cheaper than all those professionals do because we have a
language that thinks like we do, not like the compiler does."

Dan out.


As an amateur programer/business owner who relies daily on HC stacks which I
constructed over 10 years ago and am now converting to Rev, I consider one
of the most important aspects of an high level X-talk script is that when I
revisit a script  years after I wrote it - I can read it and figure out what
I did & now need to do to enhance it.

I would not have had the time or patience to learn a "real programming
language" and been unable to develop the system I run my business on.

Now struggling with learning to take my systems onto the internet based on
the principles so aptly demonstrated at the seminar.

The quality of the professionals contributing to this list is the best
endorsement for Rev.

Well said Dan

Ed McCabe


From steve at messimercomputing.com  Wed Feb 11 10:02:58 2004
From: steve at messimercomputing.com (Stephen Messimer)
Date: Wed, 11 Feb 2004 10:02:58 -0500
Subject: tabbed button weirdness
Message-ID: <61078988-5CA3-11D8-A643-000A27D75508@messimercomputing.com>

Hi,

I have noticed what seems to be an irregularity in how tabbed buttons 
function when grouped.

recipe:

create a tabbed button
group it
click the "select grouped" icon of the Rev Task bar
now try to use the selection handles of the tabbed button to change its 
size.

It doesn't work.

It works for all other objects in a group.  Is there something special 
about tabbed buttons that accounts for this?

You can change the size by deselecting the "select grouped" icon of the 
Rev Task bar and clicking the "edit group" icon.  Of course this 
doesn't allow you to see other objects on the card which makes it 
difficult to align things.

Is this a feature or a bug?

Regards

Steve

Stephen R. Messimer, PA
208 1st Ave. South	
Escanaba, MI 49829
http://www.messimercomputing.com
--
Build Computer-Based Training modules FAST with preceptorTools? -- 
version 1.0.5 available now as Freeware!


From 3mcgrath at adelphia.net  Wed Feb 11 10:17:16 2004
From: 3mcgrath at adelphia.net (Thomas McGrath III)
Date: Wed, 11 Feb 2004 10:17:16 -0500
Subject: tabbed button weirdness
In-Reply-To: <61078988-5CA3-11D8-A643-000A27D75508@messimercomputing.com>
References: <61078988-5CA3-11D8-A643-000A27D75508@messimercomputing.com>
Message-ID: <609DA1C6-5CA5-11D8-ADC1-000A95DA60FA@adelphia.net>

Steve,

I don't think it is either a feature or a bug. I just think that the 
tabbed button is a special object and as such is handled a little 
differently. I look at it like the menu object where it is a little bit 
different than other objects.

Other may know what the real deal is with tabs.

HTH

Tom

On Feb 11, 2004, at 10:02 AM, Stephen Messimer wrote:

> It doesn't work.
>
> It works for all other objects in a group.  Is there something special 
> about tabbed buttons that accounts for this?
>
> You can change the size by deselecting the "select grouped" icon of 
> the Rev Task bar and clicking the "edit group" icon.  Of course this 
> doesn't allow you to see other objects on the card which makes it 
> difficult to align things.
>
> Is this a feature or a bug?

Macintosh PowerBook G-4 OSX 10.3.1, OS 9.2.2, 1.25 GHz, 512MB RAM, Rev 
2.1.2


Advanced Media Group
Thomas J McGrath III	? 2003 ?	3mcgrath at adelphia.net
220 Drake Road, Bethel Park, PA 15102




From JimCarwardine at OwnYourFuture-net.com  Wed Feb 11 10:12:10 2004
From: JimCarwardine at OwnYourFuture-net.com (Jim Carwardine)
Date: Wed, 11 Feb 2004 11:12:10 -0400
Subject: Is Transcript's English orientation a plus or minus?
In-Reply-To: <BC4FA824.1729%isb@macconnect.com>
Message-ID: <BC4FBE8A.51E7%JimCarwardine@OwnYourFuture-net.com>

I agree wholeheartedly.

Here's my rant... I've been involved continuously with computers since 1967
(Comp. Sci, 70) and programmed in just about every commercial language on
just about every type of commercial computer AND THEY ALL SUCK.  I bought a
Mac in 1984 and Hypercard in 1987 AND THEY DON'T SUCK... end of story.

Anybody who thinks owning and operating a computer must include some pain
and unique knowledge of lingo and operating systems as some kind of "mark of
[professional] pride and excellence" is really in some kind of time/space
warp.

That Micro$oft, IBM, et al have managed to get 98% of us to think this is
normal is marketing at it's zenith.

Sorry... I'll go back to my normal pale palour now... :-@  Jim

on 2/11/04 10:37 AM, Ed McCabe wrote:

> I would not have had the time or patience to learn a "real programming
> language" and been unable to develop the system I run my business on.

-- 

OYF is... Highly resourceful people working together.
<http://www.OwnYourFuture-net.com>

Own Your Future Consulting Services Limited,
1959 Upper Water Street, Suite 407, Halifax, Nova Scotia. B3J 3N2
Info Line: 902-823-2477, Phone: 902-823-2339. Fax: 902-823-2139




From rcozens at pon.net  Wed Feb 11 08:55:47 2004
From: rcozens at pon.net (Rob Cozens)
Date: Wed, 11 Feb 2004 06:55:47 -0700
Subject: Is Transcript's English orientation a plus or minus?
In-Reply-To: <68831FB4-5BED-11D8-B678-000A9580FCCE@backtalk.com>
References: <68831FB4-5BED-11D8-B678-000A9580FCCE@backtalk.com>
Message-ID: <a05100301bc4fdfcf1983@[66.52.165.133]>

>I wish xTalk had some ADDITIONAL constructs that made it more 
>accessible to computer scientists and professional programmers. 
>Both because without them xTalk look amateurish, and therefore less 
>likely to be used by professionals, and because it would make it 
>significantly easier to port code from other languages to xTalk.
>
>It's that simple.  This isn't an either or proposition.  Adding 
>support for "x = 1" would have no impact on the RR IDE.

Good morning, Frank,

Two points:

* I think any knowledgeable computer scientist and professional 
programmer looking to adopt a new platform should personally check 
out the relative capabilities of the platform to assure themselves 
they are getting the tool they need to do the job they want to do. 
Capabilities are more important than syntax, and those who wish to 
believe the negative portrait the press has painted of HyperCard 
without checking for themselves are the losers.

* As someone else mentioned, "x = 1" already has meaning in xTalk: it 
is true if x is 1 and false if x is some other value.  And how does 
"x=1" help anyone who hasn't previously used C?  Maybe it should be 
"x := 1" for Pascal programmers; or how about "x = 1;" for PL/1 
programmers?

Anyway, the issue is one of opinion, and yours is as good or better 
than this foole's.  Still, my opinion is HyperTalk, & all xTalks by 
extension, have received invalid criticism by reviewers that don't 
have a clue as to its power and capabilities, and potential users who 
buy into that criticism without checking for themselves are doing 
themselves a disservice.
-- 

Rob Cozens
CCW, Serendipity Software Company
http://www.oenolog.net/who.htm

"And I, which was two fooles, do so grow three;
Who are a little wise, the best fooles bee."

from "The Triple Foole" by John Donne (1572-1631)

From rcozens at pon.net  Wed Feb 11 09:18:42 2004
From: rcozens at pon.net (Rob Cozens)
Date: Wed, 11 Feb 2004 07:18:42 -0700
Subject: Is Transcript's English orientation a plus or minus?
In-Reply-To: <6135E160-5BF8-11D8-AF4C-000A9567A3E6@swcp.com>
References: <6135E160-5BF8-11D8-AF4C-000A9567A3E6@swcp.com>
Message-ID: <a05100302bc4fe5706c25@[66.52.165.133]>

>Thirty years ago I wrote a proposal for using lisp for a distributed 
>control system project.


Hi Dar,

Thirty years ago I was responsible for procurement and development of 
Oakland Police Department's MIS.  While the City of Oakland DP Dept. 
was a COBOL shop, Boeing Computer Systems had just delivered OPD's 
Computer Assisted Dispatching System in FORTRAN, and the daily CAD 
activity logs were the principal input to MIS; so MIS was written in 
FORTRAN.

A year or so after I left OPD, they hired Coopers & Lybrand (sp?) to 
review the system.  Their main criticism was the selection of the 
programming language: "FORTRAN" is for scientific programming and 
COBOL is for business programming."  Of course no mention of the CAD 
system, Boeing's choice of FORTRAN, or the need for OPD to maintain 
in-house FORTRAN expertise to support CAD.

Their "analysis" also stated, "There are more COBOL programmers than 
FORTRAN programmers; so it will be easier to find programming staff." 
Real world: when I added a programmer to my staff, both candidates 
sent me by City Personnel were FORTRAN programmers recently hired by 
City DP and scheduled to be trained in COBOL.

The MIS system was used daily for over 15 years.  What "everybody 
knows" is often nada.
-- 

Rob Cozens
CCW, Serendipity Software Company
http://www.oenolog.net/who.htm

"And I, which was two fooles, do so grow three;
Who are a little wise, the best fooles bee."

from "The Triple Foole" by John Donne (1572-1631)

From rcozens at pon.net  Wed Feb 11 09:22:08 2004
From: rcozens at pon.net (Rob Cozens)
Date: Wed, 11 Feb 2004 07:22:08 -0700
Subject: Is Transcript's English orientation a plus or minus?
In-Reply-To: <402925E6.113DA1B4@Club-Internet.fr>
References:  <Pine.GSO.4.33.0402101024340.19092-100000@titan.ecs.fullerton.edu>
 <402925E6.113DA1B4@Club-Internet.fr>
Message-ID: <a05100303bc4fea7f9c61@[66.52.165.133]>

>the association
>of Xtalk and C can lead to a tremendous power in high end
>projects, Rev & Xtalk being used to build top quality front
>ends (with unbeatable productivity & cost ratios) while C
>being used in externals

JB, and anyone else enamored of C:

Program all the externals you desire!

But if you're only using C for externals, there is no need for C 
syntax in Transcript....and there isn't anyway, IMFO.
-- 

Rob Cozens
CCW, Serendipity Software Company
http://www.oenolog.net/who.htm

"And I, which was two fooles, do so grow three;
Who are a little wise, the best fooles bee."

from "The Triple Foole" by John Donne (1572-1631)

From devin_asay at byu.edu  Wed Feb 11 10:28:18 2004
From: devin_asay at byu.edu (Devin Asay)
Date: Wed, 11 Feb 2004 08:28:18 -0700
Subject: Function output, a bug or a feature?
Message-ID: <EB25E7D0-5CA6-11D8-B29D-000A95A6A138@byu.edu>

Here's the recipe:

Create a new mainstack.
Create a field on the card.
Open the stack script and write a simple function handler. I used this 
one:

	function cube theNumber
	   return theNumber^3
	end cube

Open the message box and call the new function:
	put cube(3) -- works perfectly, the result is displayed in the message 
box.

However, try putting the output of the function into the field:
	put cube(3) into fld 1 -- the output goes into the message box, not 
the field.

If you try this with a standard Transcript function:
	put sqrt(4) into fld 1 -- works as expected, with output to the field.

Has this always (not) worked like this? Have I just missed it all these 
years? I could swear I've done this successfully before.

Devin Asay
Humanities Technology and Research Support Center
Brigham Young University


From steve at messimercomputing.com  Wed Feb 11 10:38:54 2004
From: steve at messimercomputing.com (Stephen Messimer)
Date: Wed, 11 Feb 2004 10:38:54 -0500
Subject: tabbed button weirdness
In-Reply-To: <20040211152955.9676C930422@mail.runrev.com>
Message-ID: <6648699C-5CA8-11D8-A643-000A27D75508@messimercomputing.com>

Tom,

This is a not a major problem but it is irritating.   I just thought 
that palette objects should all have the same set of methods when it 
comes to something as fundamental as resizing.

my 2?

Steve
On Wednesday, February 11, 2004, at 10:29 AM, 
use-revolution-request at lists.runrev.com wrote:

> Steve,
>
> I don't think it is either a feature or a bug. I just think that the
> tabbed button is a special object and as such is handled a little
> differently. I look at it like the menu object where it is a little bit
> different than other objects.
>
> Other may know what the real deal is with tabs.
>
> HTH
>
> Tom

Stephen R. Messimer, PA
208 1st Ave. South	
Escanaba, MI 49829
http://www.messimercomputing.com
--
Build Computer-Based Training modules FAST with preceptorTools? -- 
version 1.0.5 available Now!


From kevin at runrev.com  Wed Feb 11 10:52:02 2004
From: kevin at runrev.com (Kevin Miller)
Date: Wed, 11 Feb 2004 15:52:02 +0000
Subject: Is Transcript's English orientation a plus or minus?
In-Reply-To: <09C52972-5C29-11D8-B1B9-0030656FB5D4@danshafer.com>
Message-ID: <BC500022.2AAEF%kevin@runrev.com>

On 11/2/04 12:27 am, Dan Shafer <revdan at danshafer.com> wrote:

> Nope. I'm with those who say to RunRev, "The syntax is beautiful. We
> don't care if 'real programmers' (whoever *they* are) think it's
> amateurish. We'll be happy to keep making a living by writing apps
> faster and cheaper than all those professionals do because we have a
> language that thinks like we do, not like the compiler does."

The syntax is neither amateurish, nor only for beginners.  The English-like
nature of our language is one of our product's key differentiators and is
appreciated by beginners and professionals alike.  If you have a lot of
programming experience background it make take a little getting used to.
However I've seen this pattern again and again: once you are used to it, you
don't tend to want to go back.

Not only would adding the ability to code in other ways be a huge use of
resources best spent fixing bugs and polishing the feature set, it would
remove one of our key benefits.  We believe programming should be like
creativity, like drawing or writing, not like arcane.  There is no inherent
reason that philosophy can't equally apply to the professional as to the
beginner.

No matter how used you get to C, PERL, Java, etc., at the end of the day,
code written in Transcript is a lot more readable.  We're not about to spend
time making our virtually self-commenting code like other programming
languages for no other reason than to be like other languages.

Kind regards,

Kevin 

Kevin Miller ~ kevin at runrev.com ~ http://www.runrev.com/
Runtime Revolution - User-Centric Development Tools


From xbury.cs at clearstream.com  Wed Feb 11 10:44:07 2004
From: xbury.cs at clearstream.com (xbury.cs at clearstream.com)
Date: Wed, 11 Feb 2004 16:44:07 +0100
Subject: Is Transcript's English orientation a plus or minus?
Message-ID: <OF080639AC.E9CB5B8A-ONC1256E37.0056432C-C1256E37.005670B4@deutsche-boerse.de>

although a C and asm compiler would be nice,

C has this nice feature for other language usage...

on mouseup
c{
   do some c code real fast ;
  asm{
    do some assembler code at warpspeed;
  }
}

See? No need for those overcomplicated externals... ;)

---------------------=---------------------
Xavier Bury
Clearstream Services
TNS NT LAN Server
ext 36465
Voice: +352 4656 43 6465
Fax: +352 4656 493 6465


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From xbury.cs at clearstream.com  Wed Feb 11 10:39:48 2004
From: xbury.cs at clearstream.com (xbury.cs at clearstream.com)
Date: Wed, 11 Feb 2004 16:39:48 +0100
Subject: Styled text challenge...
Message-ID: <OF4868E20C.8BBA5F2E-ONC1256E37.00525259-C1256E37.00560BB2@deutsche-boerse.de>

Hi everyone,

Other than parsing completely out the html code, you would assume that

set the RTFText of fld "text" to the HTMLText of fld "html"

converts html to styled text... BUT IT DOESNT! 

There doesn't seem to be any other language features for this purpose.

This conversion is catastrophic! It should work (since it's allowed) but 
it strips all the returns (it expects the CRLF is my guess) and puts in 
the bland HTML code into one big line of black text... After x characters, 
the field wont wrap the lines, and you are surely asking for trouble! 

Funnier, there is not one linefeed in the fld after the conversion. 

set the RTFText of fld "text" to fld "html" - gives you non-formated text 
without any paragraphs (or returns or linefeeds). What happened to the 
standards as seen in the link mentioned in the documentation?

But it sounds insane that you have to go through hoops to do this simple 
task. Why is styled text still a thing of the future - you'd think that 
since HC 2.2 this would work...

put fld "html" into fld "text" - is the only thing that works... without 
styles, colors or sizes...

Bug or another incomplete feature? ;) 
I imagine the RTF text is there for file compatibility only... 
alas it was my only solution to avoid coding a hord of html to styled text 
for my stealth browser...

Anyone found a magical hidden setting that I missed? I would like to 
simply convert styled HTML text to Styled text...

repeat with x = 1 to length(fld "HTML")
  repeat for every item i in "style,size,lineheight,color, etc"
    do "set the " & i &" of char c of fld "& quote & "text" & quote & " to 
the"& i&" of char c of fld "text" -- I wont bother with the right syntax 
if you dont mind... 
 end repeat
end repeat
-- 2 million ticks later...
Answer "Your Styled text is ready for viewing...  Thanks for your 
patience."

Cheers
Xavier


Visit us at http://www.clearstream.com
                                                          
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From gizmotron at earthlink.net  Wed Feb 11 11:02:02 2004
From: gizmotron at earthlink.net (Mark Brownell)
Date: Wed, 11 Feb 2004 08:02:02 -0800
Subject: Is Transcript's English orientation a plus or minus?
In-Reply-To: <a05100301bc4fdfcf1983@[66.52.165.133]>
Message-ID: <A147BF1E-5CAB-11D8-ADCD-000A95859272@earthlink.net>


On Wednesday, February 11, 2004, at 05:55  AM, Rob Cozens wrote:

> Maybe it should be "x := 1" for Pascal programmers; or how about "x = 
> 1;" for PL/1 programmers?

Maybe it could be "x :=) 1" for I just dumped my girl-friend...

mb


From shedrup at ms9.hinet.net  Wed Feb 11 11:04:30 2004
From: shedrup at ms9.hinet.net (Friedrich F. Grohmann)
Date: Thu, 12 Feb 2004 00:04:30 +0800
Subject: copy problems
Message-ID: <200402111602.AAA10346@msr37.hinet.net>

There seems to be a problem with copying from another application to Rev. 
I am trying to transfer Chinese text step by step into a Rev application 
under development in Panther. The text is copied from a Nisus file with 
Nisus working under OS 9. Quite often the contents of the clipboard seem 
to elude Rev which is instead pasting something I had copied before 
within Rev. Thus I am forced to shuttle a number of times between OS 9 
and OS X recopying the passage from the Nisus file which is already in 
the clipboard in the hope that Rev will finally manage to recognize it. 
Is this supposed to be normal behaviour or do I miss anything? Thanks for 
any hint.

Fritz

From jbv.silences at Club-Internet.fr  Wed Feb 11 11:10:01 2004
From: jbv.silences at Club-Internet.fr (jbv)
Date: Wed, 11 Feb 2004 17:10:01 +0100
Subject: Is Transcript's English orientation a plus or minus?
References: <Pine.GSO.4.33.0402101024340.19092-100000@titan.ecs.fullerton.edu>
	<a05100303bc4fea7f9c61@[66.52.165.133]>
Message-ID: <402A53D4.16418889@Club-Internet.fr>



Rob,

> JB, and anyone else enamored of C:
>
> Program all the externals you desire!
>
> But if you're only using C for externals, there is no need for C
> syntax in Transcript....and there isn't anyway, IMFO.
> --

100% agreed.

What I meant was : use Transcript for top quality front ends,
and C for critical high speed tasks. IOW both tools are complementary,
but each tool has its own purposes.

Example : why should I bother with C to build front ends, and
who could be fool enough to try to code a realtime FFT in Transcript ?

JB


From gizmotron at earthlink.net  Wed Feb 11 11:24:44 2004
From: gizmotron at earthlink.net (Mark Brownell)
Date: Wed, 11 Feb 2004 08:24:44 -0800
Subject: Styled text challenge...
In-Reply-To: <OF4868E20C.8BBA5F2E-ONC1256E37.00525259-C1256E37.00560BB2@deutsche-boerse.de>
Message-ID: <CD2F714D-5CAE-11D8-ADCD-000A95859272@earthlink.net>


On Wednesday, February 11, 2004, at 07:39  AM, xbury.cs at clearstream.com 
wrote:

> Other than parsing completely out the html code, you would assume that
>
> set the RTFText of fld "text" to the HTMLText of fld "html"
>
> converts html to styled text... BUT IT DOESNT!

Have you tried:

  putting fld "html" into zingText

  setting the HTMLText of fld "offScreenField" to zingText

Then after that's in an off screen field putting the RTFText of fld 
"offScreenField" into ratBoyVar

I discovered that I needed to try it in steps using an off screen field 
in the middle of the process.

Mark


From xbury.cs at clearstream.com  Wed Feb 11 11:30:37 2004
From: xbury.cs at clearstream.com (xbury.cs at clearstream.com)
Date: Wed, 11 Feb 2004 17:30:37 +0100
Subject: SoCal RevDevCon
Message-ID: <OFACCB0AB8.0D0540E7-ONC1256E37.004815AA-C1256E37.005AB2A0@deutsche-boerse.de>

Maybe the european rev devvers could do the same
with wine/beer and hyper-cheese ?

anyone? 

regards,
Xavier

On 11/02/2004 12:00:13 use-revolution-bounces wrote:
>It's about time for another SoCal RevDevCon, our informal gatherings of
>local Rev developers in which we geek out over dinner and presentations.
>
>We haven't picked a date yet, but it should be in the first half of 
March.
>
>Respecting the bandwidth of this list, I've set up a separate dicussion
>group for SoCal RevDev busines:
>
><http://groups.yahoo.com/group/socalrev/>
>
>If you're in Southern California and would like to attend, just sign up
>there.
>
>Once we get the date and itenerary I'll post a message to this list to 
make
>sure folks know, but lets do the boring planning stuff on Yahoo so this 
list
>can stay OT.

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From dsc at swcp.com  Wed Feb 11 11:49:39 2004
From: dsc at swcp.com (Dar Scott)
Date: Wed, 11 Feb 2004 09:49:39 -0700
Subject: Styled text challenge...
In-Reply-To: <OF4868E20C.8BBA5F2E-ONC1256E37.00525259-C1256E37.00560BB2@deutsche-boerse.de>
Message-ID: <4844AF65-5CB2-11D8-9DEE-000A9567A3E6@swcp.com>


On Wednesday, February 11, 2004, at 08:39 AM, xbury.cs at clearstream.com 
wrote:

> Other than parsing completely out the html code, you would assume that
>
> set the RTFText of fld "text" to the HTMLText of fld "html"
>
> converts html to styled text... BUT IT DOESNT!
>
> There doesn't seem to be any other language features for this purpose.

It is not clear to me what you want.

Do you want the RTF representation of the HTML representation of some 
text in a field?

Does this (untried) do what you want?

    lock screen
    put field "text" into temp
    put the htmlText of field "text" into field "text"
    put the rtfText of field "text" into rtfOfHtml
    put temp into field "text"
    unlock screen

I suspect I have missed the need.

Dar Scott


From psahores at easynet.fr  Wed Feb 11 12:00:05 2004
From: psahores at easynet.fr (Pierre Sahores)
Date: Wed, 11 Feb 2004 18:00:05 +0100
Subject: Is Transcript's English orientation a plus or minus?
In-Reply-To: <BC500022.2AAEF%kevin@runrev.com>
References: <BC500022.2AAEF%kevin@runrev.com>
Message-ID: <BD37D808-5CB3-11D8-8492-000A95665344@easynet.fr>


> On 11/2/04 12:27 am, Dan Shafer <revdan at danshafer.com> wrote:

>>  because we have a
>> language that thinks like we do, not like the compiler does."

Bien cordialement, Pierre Sahores

100, rue de Paris
F - 77140 Nemours

psahores at easynet.fr

GSM:   +33 6 03 95 77 70
Pro:   +33 1 41 60 52 68
Dom:   +33 1 64 45 05 33
Fax:   +33 1 64 45 05 33

Inspection acad?mique de Seine-Saint-Denis
Applications et SGBD ACID SQL (WEB et PGI)
Penser et produire "delta de productivit?"


From alex at mindlube.com  Wed Feb 11 12:04:07 2004
From: alex at mindlube.com (Alex Rice)
Date: Wed, 11 Feb 2004 10:04:07 -0700
Subject: XML tree-view as a database frontend in Rev? 
In-Reply-To: <CAC1859B-5C8F-11D8-BA48-000A95C45C8C@princeton.edu>
References: <CAC1859B-5C8F-11D8-BA48-000A95C45C8C@princeton.edu>
Message-ID: <4D89DBE3-5CB4-11D8-A0E9-000393C4760A@mindlube.com>


On Feb 11, 2004, at 5:42 AM, Toma Tasovac wrote:

> Any pointers would be greatly appreciated.

Check out: Revolution/Sample Stacks/xmltree-view.rev

There is no tree-view control in Runrev. You have to create the tree 
formatting yourself using the htmlText of a field.

That's very different than in other languages where there is a 
tree-view control, and model-view-controller pattern, so the treeview 
requests the nodes it needs to display from the data source. Like in 
Cocoa one of the messages:

- (id)outlineView: (NSOutlineView *) ov objectValueForTableColumn: 
(NSTableColumn *) tableColumn byItem: (id) node

Anyways that's not exactly what you were asking.

--
Alex Rice | Mindlube Software | http://mindlube.com


From alex at mindlube.com  Wed Feb 11 12:08:40 2004
From: alex at mindlube.com (Alex Rice)
Date: Wed, 11 Feb 2004 10:08:40 -0700
Subject: Function output, a bug or a feature?
In-Reply-To: <EB25E7D0-5CA6-11D8-B29D-000A95A6A138@byu.edu>
References: <EB25E7D0-5CA6-11D8-B29D-000A95A6A138@byu.edu>
Message-ID: <F022B477-5CB4-11D8-A0E9-000393C4760A@mindlube.com>


On Feb 11, 2004, at 8:28 AM, Devin Asay wrote:

> However, try putting the output of the function into the field:
> 	put cube(3) into fld 1 -- the output goes into the message box, not 
> the field.

It seems like a message box bug to me!

--
Alex Rice | Mindlube Software | http://mindlube.com


From xbury.cs at clearstream.com  Wed Feb 11 12:13:04 2004
From: xbury.cs at clearstream.com (xbury.cs at clearstream.com)
Date: Wed, 11 Feb 2004 18:13:04 +0100
Subject: Styled text challenge...
Message-ID: <OF51F0C8E6.C94C73DA-ONC1256E37.005E375D-C1256E37.005E94BE@deutsche-boerse.de>

(after 5 minutes battling with lotus notes (takes 3 minutes to copy paste 
BASIC text at 99% CPU usage %)(*&@%)@(*@(%*@
, ultraedit (never copies on the first try) and RR to get this copied 
corretly without shrunk styled text in a CODE window
that doesn't need it... and the text menu in the script editor is 
disabled!!!!! )$%(*@)(@*%)(%*)

no, that just returns the html code as the content of the field... 


On 11/02/2004 05:49:39 PM use-revolution-bounces wrote:
>On Wednesday, February 11, 2004, at 08:39 AM, xbury.cs at clearstream.com
>wrote:
>
>> Other than parsing completely out the html code, you would assume that
>>
>> set the RTFText of fld "text" to the HTMLText of fld "html"
>>
>> converts html to styled text... BUT IT DOESNT!
>>
>> There doesn't seem to be any other language features for this purpose.
>
>It is not clear to me what you want.
>
>Do you want the RTF representation of the HTML representation of some
>text in a field?
>
>Does this (untried) do what you want?
>
>lock screen
>put field "text" into temp
>put the htmlText of field "text" into field "text"
>put the rtfText of field "text" into rtfOfHtml
>put temp into field "text"
>unlock screen
>
>I suspect I have missed the need.
>
>Dar Scott
>
>_______________________________________________
>use-revolution mailing list
>use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
>http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution

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From xbury.cs at clearstream.com  Wed Feb 11 12:17:44 2004
From: xbury.cs at clearstream.com (xbury.cs at clearstream.com)
Date: Wed, 11 Feb 2004 18:17:44 +0100
Subject: Styled text challenge...
Message-ID: <OFF7825D22.3A3052CA-ONC1256E37.005EA549-C1256E37.005F0231@deutsche-boerse.de>

Im not sure if i was clear,
I want to convert HTML text in fld "HTML" to RTF in fld "TEXT"

But Im practically giving up, this is too much hastle, not to mention
uncooperating clipboards, rr script editor, formats, html pages that
are using more and more weird crap... Basic text will be a fine standard
for reading!!!

cheers and thanks for the help...

On 11/02/2004 06:13:04 PM use-revolution-bounces wrote:
>(after 5 minutes battling with lotus notes (takes 3 minutes to copy paste
>BASIC text at 99% CPU usage %)(*&@%)@(*@(%*@
>, ultraedit (never copies on the first try) and RR to get this copied
>corretly without shrunk styled text in a CODE window
>that doesn't need it... and the text menu in the script editor is
>disabled!!!!! )$%(*@)(@*%)(%*)
>
>no, that just returns the html code as the content of the field...
>
>
>On 11/02/2004 05:49:39 PM use-revolution-bounces wrote:
>>On Wednesday, February 11, 2004, at 08:39 AM, xbury.cs at clearstream.com
>>wrote:
>>
>>> Other than parsing completely out the html code, you would assume that
>>>
>>> set the RTFText of fld "text" to the HTMLText of fld "html"
>>>
>>> converts html to styled text... BUT IT DOESNT!
>>>
>>> There doesn't seem to be any other language features for this purpose.
>>
>>It is not clear to me what you want.
>>
>>Do you want the RTF representation of the HTML representation of some
>>text in a field?
>>
>>Does this (untried) do what you want?
>>
>>lock screen
>>put field "text" into temp
>>put the htmlText of field "text" into field "text"
>>put the rtfText of field "text" into rtfOfHtml
>>put temp into field "text"
>>unlock screen
>>
>>I suspect I have missed the need.
>>
>>Dar Scott
>>
>>_______________________________________________
>>use-revolution mailing list
>>use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
>>http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>
>Visit us at http://www.clearstream.com
>
>IMPORTANT MESSAGE
>
>Internet communications are not secure and therefore Clearstream 
International 
>does not accept legal responsibility for the contents of this message.
>
>The information contained in this e-mail is confidential and may be 
legally 
>privileged. It is intended solely for the addressee. If you are not the 
>intended recipient, any disclosure, copying, distribution or any action 
taken 
>or omitted to be taken in reliance on it, is prohibited and may be 
unlawful. 
>Any views expressed in this e-mail are those of the individual sender, 
except 
>where the sender specifically states them to be the views of Clearstream 
>International or of any of its affiliates or subsidiaries.
>
>END OF DISCLAIMER
>_______________________________________________
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>http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution

Visit us at http://www.clearstream.com
                                                          
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The information contained in this e-mail is confidential and may be legally privileged. It is intended solely for the addressee. If you are not the intended recipient, any disclosure, copying, distribution or any action taken or omitted to be taken in reliance on it, is prohibited and may be unlawful. Any views expressed in this e-mail are those of the individual sender, except where the sender specifically states them to be the views of Clearstream International or of any of its affiliates or subsidiaries.

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From xbury.cs at clearstream.com  Wed Feb 11 12:21:17 2004
From: xbury.cs at clearstream.com (xbury.cs at clearstream.com)
Date: Wed, 11 Feb 2004 18:21:17 +0100
Subject: Function output, a bug or a feature?
Message-ID: <OF02035CF9.23ECD8FA-ONC1256E37.005F1366-C1256E37.005F5569@deutsche-boerse.de>

While on teh subject of the msg box

answer  there is a linefeed in fld "text"
is ok
but
put ( there is a linefeed in fld "text")

doesnt... This was so nice in HC...

Also if you do 

4+5

the msg is changed to it's preferred format 
put 4+5

so why doesn't put (there is a linefeed in fld "text") not work?

;)
If I was quality control Mgr at RR, RR would be in hell!
But there would 90% less rant in the list ;))

cheers to all, Im gone home...

On 11/02/2004 06:08:40 PM use-revolution-bounces wrote:
>On Feb 11, 2004, at 8:28 AM, Devin Asay wrote:
>
>> However, try putting the output of the function into the field:
>>      put cube(3) into fld 1 -- the output goes into the message box, 
not
>> the field.
>
>It seems like a message box bug to me!


Visit us at http://www.clearstream.com
                                                          
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The information contained in this e-mail is confidential and may be legally privileged. It is intended solely for the addressee. If you are not the intended recipient, any disclosure, copying, distribution or any action taken or omitted to be taken in reliance on it, is prohibited and may be unlawful. Any views expressed in this e-mail are those of the individual sender, except where the sender specifically states them to be the views of Clearstream International or of any of its affiliates or subsidiaries.

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From stephenREVOLUTION at barncard.com  Wed Feb 11 12:18:47 2004
From: stephenREVOLUTION at barncard.com (Stephen Quinn Barncard)
Date: Wed, 11 Feb 2004 09:18:47 -0800
Subject: copy problems
Message-ID: <p06020401bc5013ce0732@[192.168.1.100]>

I have had problems using the clipboard between Classic and OSX 
Panther. Seems to be a big wall there....can you get a copy of Nisus 
for OSX?

>There seems to be a problem with copying from another application to Rev.
>I am trying to transfer Chinese text step by step into a Rev application
>..
>Fritz

From herz at ucsd.edu  Wed Feb 11 12:25:31 2004
From: herz at ucsd.edu (Richard K. Herz)
Date: Wed, 11 Feb 2004 09:25:31 -0800
Subject: Is Transcript's English orientation a plus or minus?
References: <20040211170006.7841A930452@mail.runrev.com>
Message-ID: <001d01c3f0c4$0de69f60$6401a8c0@RKHpc2>

Kevin wrote,
>The syntax is neither amateurish, nor only for beginners.  The...
>We're not about to spend time making our virtually self-commenting code...

Hurray!

Rich Herz
Mechanical & Aerospace Engineering Dept.
University of California, San Diego


From dsc at swcp.com  Wed Feb 11 12:25:32 2004
From: dsc at swcp.com (Dar Scott)
Date: Wed, 11 Feb 2004 10:25:32 -0700
Subject: Styled text challenge...
In-Reply-To: <OFF7825D22.3A3052CA-ONC1256E37.005EA549-C1256E37.005F0231@deutsche-boerse.de>
Message-ID: <4BE7B52A-5CB7-11D8-9DEE-000A9567A3E6@swcp.com>


On Wednesday, February 11, 2004, at 10:17 AM, xbury.cs at clearstream.com 
wrote:

> Im not sure if i was clear,
> I want to convert HTML text in fld "HTML" to RTF in fld "TEXT"

   lock screen
   put field "HTML" into temp
   set the htmlText of field "HTML" to temp
   put the rtfText of field "HTML" into field "TEXT"
   put temp into field "HTML"
   unlock screen

I could still be mixed up on what you want.

Of course this won't work with real html and rtf, just the pidgin 
versions used for field text descriptions.

Dar Scott


From ambassador at fourthworld.com  Wed Feb 11 12:27:22 2004
From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin)
Date: Wed, 11 Feb 2004 09:27:22 -0800
Subject: Function output, a bug or a feature?
In-Reply-To: <OF02035CF9.23ECD8FA-ONC1256E37.005F1366-C1256E37.005F5569@deutsche-boerse.de>
Message-ID: <BC4FA5FA.3D2A8%ambassador@fourthworld.com>

xbury.cs at clearstream.com wrote:

> While on teh subject of the msg box
> 
> answer  there is a linefeed in fld "text"
> is ok
> but
> put ( there is a linefeed in fld "text")
> 
> doesnt... This was so nice in HC...
> 
> Also if you do 
> 
> 4+5
> 
> the msg is changed to it's preferred format
> put 4+5

Interestingly, the shorter alternative works within parens:

   put (linefeed is in fld 1)


-- 
 Richard Gaskin 
 Fourth World Media Corporation
 ___________________________________________________________
 Ambassador at FourthWorld.com       http://www.FourthWorld.com


From isb at macconnect.com  Wed Feb 11 12:26:40 2004
From: isb at macconnect.com (Ed McCabe)
Date: Wed, 11 Feb 2004 12:26:40 -0500
Subject: Is Transcript's English orientation a plus or minus?
Message-ID: <BC4FD000.1731%isb@macconnect.com>

 From: Ed McCabe <isb at macconnect.com>
> Date: 2004/02/11 Wed AM 09:37:31 EST
> To: <use-revolution at lists.runrev.com>
> Subject: <no subject>
> 
> Dan said:
> 
> I've resisted comment as long as I can. It's torture.
> 
> Most of my feelings have been expressed by others, but there is one
> point that I think is perhaps under-appreciated.
> 
> The notion that we should add to the Transcript syntax to make the
> program less "beginnerish" (which I agree it isn't anyway except
> compared to the absolutely incomprehensible C and Perl languages, which
> I few as write-only) just because we *can* misses a key point.
> 
> A new person coming into the environment and looking for how to do
> something looks at scripts and docs. Unless you not only implement new
> and more complex syntax *in addition to* the regular syntax rather than
> instead of it, but also do not document it and discourage its use in
> scripts a newbie is likely to stumble over while learning, you still
> run the risk of alienating new programmers who look at the (let's face
> it) ugly C-like syntax and immediately head for REALBasic. The only
> other alternative, really, is to resort to levels or layers of access
> in a (generally futile but well-intended) effort to hide this stuff
> from people for whom it might be dangerous.
> 
> Nope. I'm with those who say to RunRev, "The syntax is beautiful. We
> don't care if 'real programmers' (whoever *they* are) think it's
> amateurish. We'll be happy to keep making a living by writing apps
> faster and cheaper than all those professionals do because we have a
> language that thinks like we do, not like the compiler does."
> 
> Dan out.
> 
> 
> As an amateur programer/business owner who relies daily on HC stacks which I
> constructed over 10 years ago and am now converting to Rev, I consider one
> of the most important aspects of an high level X-talk script is that when I
> revisit a script  years after I wrote it - I can read it and figure out what
> I did & now need to do to enhance it.
> 
> I would not have had the time or patience to learn a "real programming
> language" and been unable to develop the system I run my business on.
> 
> Now struggling with learning to take my systems onto the internet based on
> the principles so aptly demonstrated at the seminar.
> 
> The quality of the professionals contributing to this list is the best
> endorsement for Rev.
> 
> Well said Dan
> 
> Ed McCabe


From ambassador at fourthworld.com  Wed Feb 11 12:50:14 2004
From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin)
Date: Wed, 11 Feb 2004 09:50:14 -0800
Subject: Styled text challenge...
In-Reply-To: <OFF7825D22.3A3052CA-ONC1256E37.005EA549-C1256E37.005F0231@deutsche-boerse.de>
Message-ID: <BC4FAB55.3D2AA%ambassador@fourthworld.com>

xbury.cs at clearstream.com wrote:

> I want to convert HTML text in fld "HTML" to RTF in fld "TEXT"

There are three ways to refer to the contents of fields:

 the text     -- returns plain text
 the htmlText -- return text with style run info in HTML
 the rtfText  -- return text with style run info in RTF

If a field contains HTML, getting the htmlText of that field will return the
field's content reformatted with ISO-8959-1 character entities (e.g., "<h3>"
would become "&lt;h3&gt;").

So if your field contains HTML and you want to convert it to RF, first don't
alter with with character entities by getting its htmlText -- just get its
text instead:

  set the htmlText of fld "rtf" to fld "html"
  get the rtfText of fld "rtf"
  -- now "it" contains an RTF version of the HTML
  -- originally in fld "html"

-- 
 Richard Gaskin 
 Fourth World Media Corporation
 ___________________________________________________________
 Ambassador at FourthWorld.com       http://www.FourthWorld.com


From dsc at swcp.com  Wed Feb 11 12:53:08 2004
From: dsc at swcp.com (Dar Scott)
Date: Wed, 11 Feb 2004 10:53:08 -0700
Subject: Drop into C (Was Is Transcript's English...)
In-Reply-To: <OF080639AC.E9CB5B8A-ONC1256E37.0056432C-C1256E37.005670B4@deutsche-boerse.de>
Message-ID: <26635744-5CBB-11D8-9DEE-000A9567A3E6@swcp.com>


On Wednesday, February 11, 2004, at 08:44 AM, xbury.cs at clearstream.com 
wrote:

> although a C and asm compiler would be nice,
> C has this nice feature for other language usage...
> on mouseup
> c{
>    do some c code real fast ;
>   asm{
>     do some assembler code at warpspeed;
>   }
> }
> See? No need for those overcomplicated externals... ;)

Most of the time, I don't use an external for speed, but to get at 
something I can't get to otherwise.  I need to build to a particular 
environment.  This usually means pulling in some headers and sometimes 
means linking in other code or other things.  Externals are built with 
tools designed for a particular environment.  For much of what I do, 
this issue would have to be addressed in the above method.

I have making new externals down to a formula for a couple 
environments.  I have some helper routines, too.  This is a good 
candidate for wizards.  So an alternative to the above method is a fast 
way to get into externals.

Since compiling is part of runtime, the issue of a bloated application 
would have to be addressed.  Each app would have to contain a c/asm 
compiler.

Since Revolution is multi-platform, this would have to be addressed.

Besides, I paid my dues to join the Externals Club, why shouldn't 
everybody else?  ;-)

I would also like to use Forth.  :-)

I hope folks who use this would hide such code down in libraries or 
some place.

Given all that, I must say I like the concept in the abstract and hope 
there comes a way to do some of this kind of thing.  I'm glad you 
mentioned it, Xavier.  Maybe it can start out for speed optimization 
only on certain platforms.

Dar Scott




From yvescoppe at skynet.be  Wed Feb 11 13:11:30 2004
From: yvescoppe at skynet.be (Yves COPPE)
Date: Wed, 11 Feb 2004 19:11:30 +0100
Subject: copy problems
In-Reply-To: <p06020401bc5013ce0732@[192.168.1.100]>
References: <p06020401bc5013ce0732@[192.168.1.100]>
Message-ID: <B76AADCF-5CBD-11D8-A7ED-000393533246@skynet.be>

Hi,


I encounter the same problem between the mac OS 9 clipboard and Mac oS 
X Rev version and other mac OS 9 Apps.


Le 11 f?vr. 2004, ? 18:18, Stephen Quinn Barncard a ?crit :

> I have had problems using the clipboard between Classic and OSX 
> Panther. Seems to be a big wall there....can you get a copy of Nisus 
> for OSX?
>
>> There seems to be a problem with copying from another application to 
>> Rev.
>> I am trying to transfer Chinese text step by step into a Rev 
>> application
>> ..
>> Fritz
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>
>
Greetings.
Yves COPPE

yvescoppe at skynet.be


From rcozens at pon.net  Wed Feb 11 12:15:54 2004
From: rcozens at pon.net (Rob Cozens)
Date: Wed, 11 Feb 2004 10:15:54 -0700
Subject: Is Transcript's English orientation a plus or minus?
Message-ID: <a05100300bc500c127fe0@[66.52.165.112]>

>As someone else mentioned, "x = 1" already has meaning in xTalk

Frank, et al:

For the record, I'm not just waxing theoretical here:  look through 
the handlers in any component of Serendipity Library and you will 
find statements were I use "x = 1" [or more likely "x is 1", but 
syntactically equivalent] to set boolean values.

* put (argument1 = true) into argument1 -- defaults argument1 to 
false if no argument is passed in the call.  Among other things, this 
lets calls to SDB handlers with multiple arguments, eg:

on findSDBRecord 
@sdbBuffer,exactKey,fieldDelimiter,itemList,setPosition,searchForward,searchCriteria,cutoffKey,recordDelimiter,unlockRecord


to be referenced by Revolutionists who don't need to override 
defaults as though the syntax were "on findSDBRecord @sdbBuffer"

* put (field 6 = empty) into skipField6

* put (field "Customer Balance" = 0) into addCustomerToCallList

Accommodating your request would force moi, at least, to rewrite MANY handlers.

Rob Cozens
CCW, Serendipity Software Company
http://www.oenolog.net/who.htm

"And I, which was two fooles, do so grow three;
Who are a little wise, the best fooles bee."

from "The Triple Foole" by John Donne (1572-1631)

From dsc at swcp.com  Wed Feb 11 13:37:39 2004
From: dsc at swcp.com (Dar Scott)
Date: Wed, 11 Feb 2004 11:37:39 -0700
Subject: Revolution IS rock-solid
In-Reply-To: <opr269lxna7hj683@smtp.wanadoo.fr>
Message-ID: <5E7CCF7E-5CC1-11D8-9DEE-000A9567A3E6@swcp.com>

With a minor isolated exception (bugzilla'd), I have never seen garbage 
show up in a string value.  That is blue-ribbon.

Dar Scott


From revdan at danshafer.com  Wed Feb 11 13:39:30 2004
From: revdan at danshafer.com (Dan Shafer)
Date: Wed, 11 Feb 2004 10:39:30 -0800
Subject: Is Transcript's English orientation a plus or minus? 
In-Reply-To: <B4624B43-5C31-11D8-B678-000A9580FCCE@backtalk.com>
References: <B4624B43-5C31-11D8-B678-000A9580FCCE@backtalk.com>
Message-ID: <A109DF8C-5CC1-11D8-A4E6-0030656FB5D4@danshafer.com>


On Feb 10, 2004, at 5:29 PM, Frank Leahy wrote:

>
> On Wednesday, February 11, 2004, at 01:14  AM, 
> use-revolution-request at lists.runrev.com wrote:
>>
>>> Supporting JavaScript is an interesting idea.  I probably wouldn't
>>> used it, but I wonder if it would bring others to Revolution.
>>>
>>>
>> And the new Director supports JavaScript alongside Lingo syntax. My
>> bet: it'll just confuse everyone. (And I love Lingo, BTW)
>>
>> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>> Dan Shafer, Revolutionary
>>
>
> Hah!  Lingo supports = (equal sign) as an assignment operator (plus 
> lots of overloading +=, -=, etc.), so I guess "x = 1" can't be all 
> that bad :-)
>
Frank...never said x=1 was bad, just that it was not as good as "put 1 
into x" in terms of my mind and readability!

hah! ;-)

> My bet is that it will lower the barrier against using it for those 
> who know Javascript already -- "Hmmm, Director has Javascript syntax?  
> Maybe it won't take as long to get up to speed as I previously thought 
> it would."
>
Well, sure it'll lower the barrier for those who already know JS. I 
just don't think that's such a big audience. JS app developers as a set 
probably don't have much Venn Diagram overlap with multimedia 
developers.

> -- Frank
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>


From jbv.silences at Club-Internet.fr  Wed Feb 11 13:55:14 2004
From: jbv.silences at Club-Internet.fr (jbv)
Date: Wed, 11 Feb 2004 19:55:14 +0100
Subject: Is Transcript's English orientation a plus or minus? (rather
	long)
References: <BC500022.2AAEF%kevin@runrev.com>
	<BD37D808-5CB3-11D8-8492-000A95665344@easynet.fr>
Message-ID: <402A7A88.5A8536F0@Club-Internet.fr>

>
> >>  because we have a
> >> language that thinks like we do, not like the compiler does."
>

Well, even if I somehow agree with the above sentence (because I more
or less understand what it implies), I must confess I don't really like
it...

IMHO computers and languages DO NOT THINK. Only programers
(and human beings in general) do. And in the context of computer
programing, they even think better (faster & more efficiently) when the
underlying concepts of programing have been well understood.
I already made that point in a post from yesterday, but surprisingly
nobody commented (which means it was incredibly smart or totally
dumb). Please allow me some more comments on that topic.

In 1980-81 I've been involved (as a programer with some background
in psychology & ergonomics) in an experiment in which a Logo machine
(Seymour Pappert's language) had been introduced in a classroom for
kids of 9 & 10 years of age. It used the french version of Logo, but
nevertheless the syntax was so closed to everyday language that the kids

were able to concentrate only on the basic concepts of programing
(sequential
set of instructions, variables, loops, if-then-else, etc).
They used the machine only a few hours a week, but at the end of the
school
year, most of them completed amazing projects (mostly animated 2D
graphics).

To me, HC (and X-talk in general) is just another offspring of the Logo
concept : it allows beginners to approach (and understand faster) the
basic
concepts behind programing more than cryptic languages like C or Java.
But in all prog. languages, these basic concepts ARE THE SAME.
And the natural feeling of the syntax shouldn't hide the fact that basic

concepts should be well understood before trying to build any serious
project.

The drawback of the above is that the "natural" syntax of x-Talk can
lure
beginners by letting them think that programing has become "plug &
play",
but they might quickly face desillusion (being unable to debug their own

code) or produce code that works more or less, but is so awfull and
ineficient that it becomes useless.

The main point I want to make is that this discussion about introducing
C-like
syntax in x-Talk is totally pointless, especially if the only goal is to
make
Transcript look less amateurish...

Please consider the following : in theory Rev sets the limit of a script
size to
very high level (don't remember exactly, but several Mb anyway, may be
even
more). This raises 2 questions :
- do you really think that a script with several hundreds or thousands
of lines
doesn't need very accurate and careful conception & structure, and of
course
comments (just like any C program needs) ? And don't you think a serious

and solid background as a professional programmer could help ?
- do you really think that the current Rev / MC IDEs allow us to
maintain &
debug scripts with hundreds or thousands of lines ? Of course not... But

CodeWarrior (for instance) does...

So in conclusion, I'm tempted to say that the language itself doesn't
look
amateurish at all (and DOESN'T need to include any C-like syntax).
But OTOH the IDE (especially the scripting & debugging environments)
REALLY look amateurish... And what you gain in productivity because of
the syntax, gets lost at the same time by the poor scripting tools...

Thanks for reading.
JB


From pixelbird at interisland.net  Wed Feb 11 13:56:27 2004
From: pixelbird at interisland.net (Ken Norris)
Date: Wed, 11 Feb 2004 10:56:27 -0800
Subject: Custom button behavior (was Windows appearance issues)
In-Reply-To: <20040211104452.9DDD0930294@mail.runrev.com>
Message-ID: <BC4FBADB.4ECA%pixelbird@interisland.net>

on 2/11/04 2:44 AM, use-revolution-request at lists.runrev.com at
use-revolution-request at lists.runrev.com wrote:

> Date: Wed, 11 Feb 2004 01:25:46 -0500
> From: Thomas McGrath III <3mcgrath at adelphia.net>
> Subject: Re: Windows appearance issues

snip
> Also I just rebuilt my own set
> of buttons and hard coded them the way I wanted with color and drop
> shadows etc. and did not use OSX or Windows to avoid the ugliness and
> big differences, now they look the same on either system. Also I
> changed the accent color to match my new buttons and color scheme.
---------
Yes, I guess I'll do that, too. Make some sets of my own standard grcs that
look good but have utility more than fancy. Can just create up and down
state buttons, maybe disabled (if needed).

I used to provide for standard HIG button behavior (sliding the cursor out
unhilites, etc.) with "the mouse" (if the mouse is within the rect of
me...else...), but in Rev it should probably be done with 'mouseMove'.

I can't seem to get the behavior to work right with 'mouseMove'. Does anyone
have a generic script?

Haven't had to deal with this before in Rev, because I just worked Mac
stuff.

TIA,
Ken N.


From 3mcgrath at adelphia.net  Wed Feb 11 13:59:44 2004
From: 3mcgrath at adelphia.net (Thomas McGrath III)
Date: Wed, 11 Feb 2004 13:59:44 -0500
Subject: tabbed button weirdness
In-Reply-To: <6648699C-5CA8-11D8-A643-000A27D75508@messimercomputing.com>
References: <6648699C-5CA8-11D8-A643-000A27D75508@messimercomputing.com>
Message-ID: <747767B4-5CC4-11D8-98B4-000A95DA60FA@adelphia.net>

I agree Steve and don't know the answer but Rev is always being 
improved so this may be corrected soon.

Tom
On Feb 11, 2004, at 10:38 AM, Stephen Messimer wrote:

> Tom,
>
> This is a not a major problem but it is irritating.   I just thought 
> that palette objects should all have the same set of methods when it 
> comes to something as fundamental as resizing.
>
> my 2?
>
> Steve
> On Wednesday, February 11, 2004, at 10:29 AM, 
> use-revolution-request at lists.runrev.com wrote:
>
>> Steve,
>>
>> I don't think it is either a feature or a bug. I just think that the
>> tabbed button is a special object and as such is handled a little
>> differently. I look at it like the menu object where it is a little 
>> bit
>> different than other objects.
>>
>> Other may know what the real deal is with tabs.
>>
>> HTH
>>
>> Tom
>
> Stephen R. Messimer, PA
> 208 1st Ave. South	
> Escanaba, MI 49829
> http://www.messimercomputing.com
> --
> Build Computer-Based Training modules FAST with preceptorTools? -- 
> version 1.0.5 available Now!
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>
>

Thomas J. McGrath III
SCS
1000 Killarney Dr.
Pittsburgh, PA 15234
412-885-8541


From frank at backtalk.com  Wed Feb 11 14:04:45 2004
From: frank at backtalk.com (Frank Leahy)
Date: Wed, 11 Feb 2004 19:04:45 +0000
Subject: RR as a browser plugin?
Message-ID: <27BBAC37-5CC5-11D8-B678-000A9580FCCE@backtalk.com>

Anyone know if RR has created a browser plug-in for RR?  It would make 
a nice competitor to Flash, etc.

-- Frank


From ambassador at fourthworld.com  Wed Feb 11 14:09:59 2004
From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin)
Date: Wed, 11 Feb 2004 11:09:59 -0800
Subject: Is Transcript's English orientation a plus or minus? (rather
	long)
In-Reply-To: <402A7A88.5A8536F0@Club-Internet.fr>
Message-ID: <BC4FBE07.3D2CA%ambassador@fourthworld.com>

jbv wrote:

> The main point I want to make is that this discussion about introducing
> C-like syntax in x-Talk is totally pointless, especially if the only
> goal is to make Transcript look less amateurish...

Amen.  The strongest argument for the legitimacy of Transcript is an army of
well-marketed world-class apps made with it.

-- 
 Richard Gaskin 
 Fourth World Media Corporation
 ___________________________________________________________
 Ambassador at FourthWorld.com       http://www.FourthWorld.com


From 3mcgrath at adelphia.net  Wed Feb 11 14:13:56 2004
From: 3mcgrath at adelphia.net (Thomas McGrath III)
Date: Wed, 11 Feb 2004 14:13:56 -0500
Subject: Let me just say
Message-ID: <702CE2C0-5CC6-11D8-98B4-000A95DA60FA@adelphia.net>

What with all of the 'long' arguments lately about scripting languages 
and their merit, I just want to say something.

I just handed in my first REV project, A large instructional CD, and 
got mixed reviews but mostly good ones. Well, they gave me a months 
worth of changes and it is all due tomorrow. OF course this is normal 
for most clients.

Then why am I writing this?
Shouldn't I be busting my rump writing code and making changes?
NOPE
I am done!!! All in one night!
How you ask?
I used Rev's easy scripting language "Transcript" to make all of the 
changes in the CD project and finished in just a couple of hours.
I made changes to almost 200 cards in different stacks as well as 
adding about 150 new graphics and rewriting the navigational system to 
handle all of this new stuff.

After I was done I got this worried feeling "That was too quick!", 
"Something must be wrong!" and "I must of screwed up somewhere". I 
decided to sleep on it and re-look at it all in the morning just in 
case. Well I spent an hour checking it all again and it works great! I 
think even better than before.

This is the beauty of Transcript. That simple.

Tom

P.S. I did not tell them it was done and am now catching up on my 
emails and resting a bit. I LOVE THE REVOLUTION


Macintosh PowerBook G-4 OSX 10.3.1, OS 9.2.2, 1.25 GHz, 512MB RAM, Rev 
2.1.2


Advanced Media Group
Thomas J McGrath III	? 2003 ?	3mcgrath at adelphia.net
220 Drake Road, Bethel Park, PA 15102



From ambassador at fourthworld.com  Wed Feb 11 14:37:01 2004
From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin)
Date: Wed, 11 Feb 2004 11:37:01 -0800
Subject: RR as a browser plugin?
In-Reply-To: <27BBAC37-5CC5-11D8-B678-000A9580FCCE@backtalk.com>
Message-ID: <BC4FC45D.3D2D1%ambassador@fourthworld.com>

Frank Leahy wrote:

> Anyone know if RR has created a browser plug-in for RR?  It would make
> a nice competitor to Flash, etc.

<http://www.google.com/search?q=%22browser+plugin%22+site:lists.runrev.com&n
um=20&hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&safe=off&start=20&sa=N>

In summary:

Browser plugins offer no substanial benefit not already addressed by using a
standalone as a helper application.

At first glance the browser plugin appears to offer "instant content without
needing to download the engine", but that's an illusion:  a plugin is an
engine, and if folks don't already have a plugin pre-installed the chances
of getting them to do so are not significantly greater than getting them to
download a helper app.

Flash is successful because of early bundling deals with Netscape, and it
remains preinstalled with nearly every browser and OS distribution.  Plugins
not preinstalled languish in obscurity; relatively few survive today.

Moreover, a helper app provides a great many usability advantages over a
browser plugin (see
<http://www.fourthworld.com/embassy/articles/netapps.html>).  And with
secureMode turned on in the helper app it's no less secure.

There is another advantage for businesses:  with so many entertaining
distractions just a click away in a browser, businesses lose billions in
productivity each year to employees surfing sports, games, and other
entertainment sites during work hours, the equivalent in the pre-Web world
to giving your employees a GameBoy and telling them not to use it. ;)   By
migrating company portals to net apps they can make many of the same
services and content available but without the productivity-killing
distractions of the WWW.

You can usually help clients wake up to the illusion of browser plugin
ubiquity with this simple two-minute usabilty test:

1. You and your client walk over to his secretary's desk and
   ask him to visit three URLs and report back with a summary
   of what was on each page.  Unknown to the tester, the URLs
   were chosen in advance so that one of them requires a plugin
   unlikely to be present on the user's system.

2. Observe the results.  In most cases, unless the test subject
   is an ubergeek, you'll get a summary of two out of three pages,
   with a comment for the plugin page being something like, "I
   couldn't view it because my system doesn't have something it
   needs", with no attempt to download and install the plugin.


-- 
 Richard Gaskin 
 Fourth World Media Corporation
 ___________________________________________________________
 Ambassador at FourthWorld.com       http://www.FourthWorld.com


From hershbp at realtorsgroup.us  Wed Feb 11 14:52:16 2004
From: hershbp at realtorsgroup.us (hershrev)
Date: Wed, 11 Feb 2004 14:52:16 -0500
Subject: Revolution IS rock-solid
In-Reply-To: <opr269lxna7hj683@smtp.wanadoo.fr>
Message-ID: <CB82E9CE-5CCB-11D8-8B65-0030654C1E62@realtorsgroup.us>


On Wednesday, February 11, 2004, at 04:50 AM, opus.species at wanadoo.fr 
wrote:

> A discussion started about the "rock-solidity" of Revolution
>
>>>> Scott Rossi wrote:
>>>> While I can't say I've pushed the engine as hard as the combined 
>>>> talent of
>>>> this list, in my experience the engine's performance has been 
>>>> exceptional.
>
>>> When the general assumption among the community is that the engine 
>>> is perfect, then bug reports are considered spurious.
>>> ...
>>> The best way to make the engine rock-solid is to knock over the idol.
>>> Dar Scott
>
>> Nobody said perfect. Rock-solid does not mean bug-free. No program 
>> that has some complexity ever is. But MetaCard crashed barely ever (I 
>> found a couple ways to crash it but I was pushing it), most features 
>> worked as expected, and bugs were addressed in a reasonable time. I 
>> don't think we are trying to idealize/idolize MC. It was not perfect. 
>> But we want Rev to reach its level and better.
>> One significantly different thing about Rev is that not all 
>> features/functionality are implemented in the engine. And Rev team 
>> added a whole bunch of new stuff on top or next to the old stuff 
>> (when the two were developed in parallel). And Rev's IDE is so much 
>> more complex and introduces a number of kinks and funky behaviors 
>> that go away when it is turned off.
>> Robert
on closeField
   set the caseSensitive to false
   find field "Find Field" in  field "list field"
   focus on field "find field"
end closeField

on exitField
   set the caseSensitive to false
   find field "Find Field" in  field "list field"
   focus on field "find field"
end exitField
  Now when I press a button "close this stack" the application crashes.

>
> For people new to this list, i mean that it is important to be clear 
> on the topic "can they be confident in deciding to use revolution for 
> a professional project".
>
> When i produce cd-rom, i use Revolution 8 to 12 hours a day for weeks. 
> "Rock-solidity" is a key feature for me.
>
> First short and after longer.
>
> SHORT
> For me Revolution 2.12 is Rock-solid and i can rely on it for days and 
> days of work.
> Metacard 2.5 was rock-solid. Revolution 1 was not.
>
> LONG
> When you use a development tools professionaly, there are 4 levels of 
> problems what can arise
> 1) your file is corrupt, all your work since the last incremental 
> backup is lost
> 2) there is an internal bug in the develoment tools forbidding your 
> application to work
> 3) there is a bug between the development tool and then system 
> environment forbidding your application to work
> 4) there are crashes in the development tools, you have sometimes to 
> stop and restart
>
> My findings
>
> 1) about file corruption
> File corruption was frequent in Hypercard and Supercard ; you had to 
> keep incremental backups very often.
> I never had a file corruption neither with metacard nor with 
> revolution.
> OK i still continue top make incremental backups because i am used to, 
> but now it is mainly to prevent an hypothetical failure of my hard 
> drive...
>
> 2) internal bug
> I do not know about any internal bug neither in Metacard nor in 
> revolution. And if one was discovered, i can be confident that it 
> would solved in a very short time.
>
> 3) bug between the development tool and the system
> Metacard was famous for its ability to bug with the video drivers. It 
> was at the time of mc 2.2. At a certain time all these problems 
> disappeared (i believe that it was with mc 2.3 or 2.4 ; i suspect that 
> at this time Scott Raney got new libraries to manage jpeg 
> decompression). For me this bugs belong to the past and i did not meet 
> them for years now.
> Some people on this list reportted bugs in the managment of sockets ; 
> other people use daily sockets without trubble for pop, smtp, ftp...
> On such a new matter it is difficult to say where the problem lie : in 
> Revolution, in the quality of scripts, in the servers...
> There are a lot of discussions on these topics on this list ; open 
> source code is regularily given by successfull developpers.
> I guess that the next release of Revolution will greatly improve 
> socket managment.
>
> 4) crashes of the IDE
> The Revolution 2.12 IDE is for me reasonably solid. Some days i do not 
> crash once ; some days i crash one or two times (in a 8 to 12 hours 
> work-day).
> This is perfectly acceptable for a professional use.
> I program on a Windows XP computer with 512 MO ram. For a professional 
> use it is a minimum. On a lower computer, problem can arise from a 
> short memory if you open Revolution in the same time as media editors, 
> but thats a Windows problem...
> The MC IDE was too ligth for beginners, fine for developpers, poorly 
> documented ; the Rev IDE is suitable for beginners and for 
> developpers, it is well documented. No IDE is perfect but the IDE of 
> revolution is at least as good as the IDE of the other tools in 
> competition.
>
> That was just a testimony
>
> Claude
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>


From rcozens at pon.net  Wed Feb 11 13:57:42 2004
From: rcozens at pon.net (Rob Cozens)
Date: Wed, 11 Feb 2004 11:57:42 -0700
Subject: Is Transcript's English orientation a plus or minus? (rather 
 long)
In-Reply-To: <402A7A88.5A8536F0@Club-Internet.fr>
References: <BC500022.2AAEF%kevin@runrev.com>
 <BD37D808-5CB3-11D8-8492-000A95665344@easynet.fr>
 <402A7A88.5A8536F0@Club-Internet.fr>
Message-ID: <a05100301bc50267db4da@[66.52.165.88]>

>- do you really think that the current Rev / MC IDEs allow us to
>maintain &
>debug scripts with hundreds or thousands of lines ? Of course not... But
>
>CodeWarrior (for instance) does...
>
>So in conclusion, I'm tempted to say that the language itself doesn't
>look
>amateurish at all (and DOESN'T need to include any C-like syntax).
>But OTOH the IDE (especially the scripting & debugging environments)
>REALLY look amateurish... And what you gain in productivity because of
>the syntax, gets lost at the same time by the poor scripting tools...

Salut, JB,

And my I say that I agree wholehearted with every word you 
wrote...until you ended with the statements I included above:

1.  The stack script of Serendipity Library has 4,566 lines as of the 
latest update.

2.  I just pulled my CodeWarrior v6 Gold edition off a back shelf.  I 
see there is a debugger somewhere on the CD, & I note the need to 
install "debugger nubs" before debugging.  Debug mode (albeit still 
buggy) in Revolution is a pulldown menu away.  Does Code Warrior's 
debug your C source or your compiled C?  If the later, how can you 
make a favorable case for that against Revolution, where I can 
immediately modify the errant code and continue runtime testing 
without rebuilding and/or relinking?  What does CW's debugger do 
better than Revolution's in combination with the variable watcher & 
and message watcher.  I compare Revolution's debugger favorably with 
Data General's PL/1 online source debugger I used for several years.
-- 

Rob Cozens
CCW, Serendipity Software Company
http://www.oenolog.net/who.htm

"And I, which was two fooles, do so grow three;
Who are a little wise, the best fooles bee."

from "The Triple Foole" by John Donne (1572-1631)

From rcozens at pon.net  Wed Feb 11 13:55:17 2004
From: rcozens at pon.net (Rob Cozens)
Date: Wed, 11 Feb 2004 11:55:17 -0700
Subject: Is Transcript's English orientation a plus or minus? (rather 
 long)
In-Reply-To: <BC4FBE07.3D2CA%ambassador@fourthworld.com>
References: <BC4FBE07.3D2CA%ambassador@fourthworld.com>
Message-ID: <a05100302bc502aeebfde@[66.52.165.88]>

>The strongest argument for the legitimacy of Transcript is an army of
>well-marketed world-class apps made with it.

...with the Made With Run Rev logo in every About box.    :{`)
-- 

Rob Cozens
CCW, Serendipity Software Company
http://www.oenolog.net/who.htm

"And I, which was two fooles, do so grow three;
Who are a little wise, the best fooles bee."

from "The Triple Foole" by John Donne (1572-1631)

From kray at sonsothunder.com  Wed Feb 11 14:56:35 2004
From: kray at sonsothunder.com (Ken Ray)
Date: Wed, 11 Feb 2004 13:56:35 -0600
Subject: Custom button behavior (was Windows appearance issues)
In-Reply-To: <BC4FBADB.4ECA%pixelbird@interisland.net>
Message-ID: <048401c3f0d9$2af514a0$6601a8c0@LightningFlash>

> I used to provide for standard HIG button behavior (sliding 
> the cursor out unhilites, etc.) with "the mouse" (if the 
> mouse is within the rect of me...else...), but in Rev it 
> should probably be done with 'mouseMove'.
> 
> I can't seem to get the behavior to work right with 
> 'mouseMove'. Does anyone have a generic script?
> 
> Haven't had to deal with this before in Rev, because I just 
> worked Mac stuff.

Ken, you don't need to do this. You just need to create graphics for the
different states of your button, then create a transparent button and:

1) set the "icon" of the button to the graphic that corresponds to its
normal (unclicked or "up") state
2) set the "hiliteIcon" of the button to the graphic that corresponds to
its depressed (or "down") state

These will make it act like a true buttton (i.e. if you mouse down and
slide out of the button, it will return to its normal state until you
mouse back in and it goes back to its "down" state)

3) (optional) if you want a different graphic for the state of the
button when it's disabled, set the "disabledIcon" of the button to the
graphic that corresponds to the disabled state

4) (optional) if you want a different graphic for the state when the
mouse is moved into and over the button but the mouse is not down (it's
"rollover" state), set the "armedIcon" of the button to the graphic that
corresponds to the rollover state


HTH,

Ken Ray
Sons of Thunder Software
Email: kray at sonsothunder.com
Web Site: http://www.sonsothunder.com/ 



From rcozens at pon.net  Wed Feb 11 13:56:37 2004
From: rcozens at pon.net (Rob Cozens)
Date: Wed, 11 Feb 2004 11:56:37 -0700
Subject: Let me just say
In-Reply-To: <702CE2C0-5CC6-11D8-98B4-000A95DA60FA@adelphia.net>
References: <702CE2C0-5CC6-11D8-98B4-000A95DA60FA@adelphia.net>
Message-ID: <a05100303bc502b49d542@[66.52.165.88]>

>I think even better than before.
>
>This is the beauty of Transcript. That simple.

Bravo & congratulations, Tom
-- 

Rob Cozens
CCW, Serendipity Software Company
http://www.oenolog.net/who.htm

"And I, which was two fooles, do so grow three;
Who are a little wise, the best fooles bee."

from "The Triple Foole" by John Donne (1572-1631)

From briany at qldlearning.com  Wed Feb 11 15:07:14 2004
From: briany at qldlearning.com (Brian Yennie)
Date: Wed, 11 Feb 2004 15:07:14 -0500
Subject: Is Transcript's English orientation a plus or minus? (rather
	long)
In-Reply-To: <a05100301bc50267db4da@[66.52.165.88]>
Message-ID: <E26C06F1-5CCD-11D8-9553-000393AA08D2@qldlearning.com>

>> - do you really think that the current Rev / MC IDEs allow us to
>> maintain &
>> debug scripts with hundreds or thousands of lines ? Of course not... 
>> But
>
> Salut, JB,
>
> And my I say that I agree wholehearted with every word you 
> wrote...until you ended with the statements I included above:
>
> 1.  The stack script of Serendipity Library has 4,566 lines as of the 
> latest update.

Ditto here. I have a commercial application condensed into one big 
8,000+ line script. Rev doesn't seem to have any trouble with it. It 
runs without error for months at a time. It also uses sockets for all 
of it's communications (it's a web app). Runs under Rev 2.0, often with 
5+ copies running on an XServe.

For large scripts, I usually:

1) Break them into smaller scripts (duh- but sometimes an advantage, 
sometimes not)
2) Put my own marker functions in (i.e. an empty function 
"UTILITY_FUNCTIONS" before all of my utility functions)

That's about it. They seem to work fine... I've even edited them 
through a b&w Timbuktu session, while the software was running, with 
the debugger.

I'm sure there could be problems I haven't seen, but it seems pretty 
capable to me.

FWIW.

Brian


From rgmiller at pacbell.net  Wed Feb 11 15:06:06 2004
From: rgmiller at pacbell.net (Ray G. Miller)
Date: Wed, 11 Feb 2004 12:06:06 -0800
Subject: Spooky
References: <20040211175255.D3D05930131@mail.runrev.com>
Message-ID: <402A8B2E.6070700@pacbell.net>

Revers,
The internet loves me. It loves me so much that it won't let me go!

Any time I go on-line,
* with Netscape,
* with (ugh) IE,
* with Adobe/Illustrator/Pagemaker/Photoshop looking for those needed files,
* with MC/Rev
I must re-boot to kill the connection!

I've purchased "IPNetSentry" --the nerdiest APP since DeBabbelizer-- it 
tells me it's added "Trigger" and that I'm connected via port 80!
I've purchased "internet Cleanup": it chugs along and finds no viri or 
worms or anything remotely sinister like spyWare....

I checked and rechecked all my TCP/IP settings. No changes. But when I 
try to disconnect from SBC DSL, I'm immediately reconnected! I'm running 
a spiffy G4 under the kindly eye of MOS 9.2.2.

The one "clue" I get is "Welcome", <pause about 10 ticks> "Welcome" when 
I first connect to SBC DSL. Is the "Welcome" coming from SBC or the 
NetScape browser? Is there a "closeDammitClose socket" command in 
Transcript?

Re-booting is not that much fun, although it gives me a chance to 
stretch and grab another cuppa. Anyone got a suggestion? I mean, besides 
drinking less coffee (Peet's Mocha Java).

Ray G. Miller
__________________
Turtlelips Productions
4009 Everett Ave.
Oakland, CA 94602
MailTo:rgmiller at pacbell.net
(V) 510.530.1971
(F) 510.482.3491




From jbv.silences at Club-Internet.fr  Wed Feb 11 15:19:39 2004
From: jbv.silences at Club-Internet.fr (jbv)
Date: Wed, 11 Feb 2004 21:19:39 +0100
Subject: Is Transcript's English orientation a plus or minus?
	(ratherlong)
References: <E26C06F1-5CCD-11D8-9553-000393AA08D2@qldlearning.com>
Message-ID: <402A8E5A.59214AB8@Club-Internet.fr>

Ok guys,

I should have written :
- do you really think that the current Rev / MC IDEs allow us to EASILY
maintain &
debug scripts with hundreds or thousands of lines ?

BTW I know that very long scripts run without any problem in Rev.
My point wasn't the execution of scripts, but rather the ability to write,

debug and maintain such long scripts.
Of course, now there are tools that are somewhat more sophisticated
(I'm still using the old MC IDE, hence my general feeling).
But nevertheless I don't think the whole Rev IDE looks professional
enough to teams of programers used to high end C environment such
as CodeWarror...

But may be I'm wrong... I so much hope I could be wrong !!!!

JB


From erikhans08 at yahoo.com  Wed Feb 11 15:21:40 2004
From: erikhans08 at yahoo.com (erik hansen)
Date: Wed, 11 Feb 2004 12:21:40 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Transcript has a HUMAN orientation
In-Reply-To: <BC500022.2AAEF%kevin@runrev.com>
Message-ID: <20040211202140.15466.qmail@web61109.mail.yahoo.com>


Transcript has a HUMAN orientation.
French, Chinese, or Hindi
would serve just as well.

=====
erik at erikhansen.org    http://www.erikhansen.org

__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Finance: Get your refund fast by filing online.
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From harrison at all-auctions.com  Wed Feb 11 10:12:15 2004
From: harrison at all-auctions.com (Richard Harrison)
Date: Wed, 11 Feb 2004 10:12:15 -0500
Subject: Help Needed: What is the best way to display/edit arrays?
In-Reply-To: <402A32D6.8DC9342D@umich.edu>
References: <402A32D6.8DC9342D@umich.edu>
Message-ID: <ACC79228-5CA4-11D8-9C3A-000393C10758@all-auctions.com>


On Feb 11, 2004, at 8:49 AM, Dennis F. Kahlbaum wrote:

> I have two 24-cell arrays that need to be displayed to and edited by 
> the
> user.  I've tried a field with a vertical grid, but that doesn't always
> work properly (if you hit the tab key, the cursor moves to the right
> into a new column (bad), if you hit the return key, the cursor goes 
> down
> to a new row (good). But many users hit tab to go between entries).
> Setting up 48 fields to display and enter/edit array data is cumbersome
> and error prone. Therefore, what is the best way in Rev to display and
> edit arrays interactively?
>
> Thanks in advance for your help.
>
> Dennis F. Kahlbaum
> University of Michigan
>

Why don't  you try trapping for the Tab key and force it into being
a return key character instead.  That should be the easy fix since
return is really what you want.  You can define characters to be
whatever you want them to be.

Tabbing to the next field is common, are you sure your people
just don't need a little more user training?

Good luck,

Rick Harrison



From ambassador at fourthworld.com  Wed Feb 11 15:23:15 2004
From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin)
Date: Wed, 11 Feb 2004 12:23:15 -0800
Subject: Is Transcript's English orientation a plus or minus?
	(ratherlong)
In-Reply-To: <402A8E5A.59214AB8@Club-Internet.fr>
Message-ID: <BC4FCF33.3D2E3%ambassador@fourthworld.com>

jbv wrote:

> I should have written :
> - do you really think that the current Rev / MC IDEs allow us to EASILY
> maintain &
> debug scripts with hundreds or thousands of lines ?
> 
> BTW I know that very long scripts run without any problem in Rev.
> My point wasn't the execution of scripts, but rather the ability to write,
> 
> debug and maintain such long scripts.

Why not just break them up into logical units and use them in backscripts a
and/or libraries?  One library for file handling, another for  UI elements,
another for general utilities....

Even on relatively small (<10k lines) projects I tend to do this just to
make getting around easier.

-- 
 Richard Gaskin 
 Fourth World Media Corporation
 ___________________________________________________________
 Ambassador at FourthWorld.com       http://www.FourthWorld.com


From scott at tactilemedia.com  Wed Feb 11 15:32:32 2004
From: scott at tactilemedia.com (Scott Rossi)
Date: Wed, 11 Feb 2004 12:32:32 -0800
Subject: Crash Recipe? (was Revolution IS rock-solid)
In-Reply-To: <CB82E9CE-5CCB-11D8-8B65-0030654C1E62@realtorsgroup.us>
Message-ID: <BC4FD160.A199%scott@tactilemedia.com>

Recently, "hershrev"  wrote:

> on closeField
>  set the caseSensitive to false
>  find field "Find Field" in  field "list field"
>  focus on field "find field"
> end closeField
> 
> on exitField
>  set the caseSensitive to false
>  find field "Find Field" in  field "list field"
>  focus on field "find field"
> end exitField
> Now when I press a button "close this stack" the application crashes.

Works for me (but the behavior is a bit odd).

Did you try isolating the above code into a small test stack to see if you
can recreate the problem?

What happens if you eliminate the use of the reserved word "field" from your
object names (ie field "list", field "find")?

Regards,

Scott Rossi
Creative Director
Tactile Media, Multimedia & Design
-----
E: scott at tactilemedia.com
W: http://www.tactilemedia.com


From erikhans08 at yahoo.com  Wed Feb 11 15:39:10 2004
From: erikhans08 at yahoo.com (erik hansen)
Date: Wed, 11 Feb 2004 12:39:10 -0800 (PST)
Subject: where is "www.livingactors.com" for RunRev
In-Reply-To: <20040113224626.65578.qmail@web40508.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <20040211203910.90311.qmail@web61101.mail.yahoo.com>

We can't find "www.livingactors.com"

=====
erik at erikhansen.org    http://www.erikhansen.org

__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Finance: Get your refund fast by filing online.
http://taxes.yahoo.com/filing.html

From scott at tactilemedia.com  Wed Feb 11 15:41:17 2004
From: scott at tactilemedia.com (Scott Rossi)
Date: Wed, 11 Feb 2004 12:41:17 -0800
Subject: Crash Recipe? (was Revolution IS rock-solid)
In-Reply-To: <BC4FD160.A199%scott@tactilemedia.com>
Message-ID: <BC4FD36D.A19D%scott@tactilemedia.com>

Recently, I wrote:

>> on closeField
>>  set the caseSensitive to false
>>  find field "Find Field" in  field "list field"
>>  focus on field "find field"
>> end closeField
>> 
>> on exitField
>>  set the caseSensitive to false
>>  find field "Find Field" in  field "list field"
>>  focus on field "find field"
>> end exitField
>> Now when I press a button "close this stack" the application crashes.
> 
> Works for me (but the behavior is a bit odd).

Retraction -- (forgot to press the button): the script doesn't work for me
as well, or actually it does, in that the crash occurs.

Perhaps you're getting a recursive loop here -- what is the behavior you're
trying to achieve (aside from eliminating the crash)?

Regards,

Scott Rossi
Creative Director
Tactile Media, Multimedia & Design
-----
E: scott at tactilemedia.com
W: http://www.tactilemedia.com


From scott at tactilemedia.com  Wed Feb 11 15:43:49 2004
From: scott at tactilemedia.com (Scott Rossi)
Date: Wed, 11 Feb 2004 12:43:49 -0800
Subject: Crash Recipe? (was Revolution IS rock-solid)
In-Reply-To: <BC4FD36D.A19D%scott@tactilemedia.com>
Message-ID: <BC4FD405.A1A0%scott@tactilemedia.com>

>> on closeField
>>  set the caseSensitive to false
>>  find field "Find Field" in  field "list field"
>>  focus on field "find field"
>> end closeField
>> 
>> on exitField
>>  set the caseSensitive to false
>>  find field "Find Field" in  field "list field"
>>  focus on field "find field"
>> end exitField
>> Now when I press a button "close this stack" the application crashes.

To simply avoid the crash add "lock messages" before "close this stack".
But this doesn't address whatever behavior you're looking for.

Regards,

Scott Rossi
Creative Director
Tactile Media, Multimedia & Design
-----
E: scott at tactilemedia.com
W: http://www.tactilemedia.com


From erikhans08 at yahoo.com  Wed Feb 11 15:46:03 2004
From: erikhans08 at yahoo.com (erik hansen)
Date: Wed, 11 Feb 2004 12:46:03 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Seamless Audio Loops in Rev
In-Reply-To: <BC29D58E.8BEC%scott@tactilemedia.com>
Message-ID: <20040211204603.11947.qmail@web61108.mail.yahoo.com>


--- Scott Rossi <scott at tactilemedia.com> wrote:

> So yes, you *can* loop a sound,
> if the *only* thing you want to do 
> in a stack is loop a sound.

how about putting the "looper" on a seperate
stack and sending the play command from
your mainstack?

=====
erik at erikhansen.org    http://www.erikhansen.org

__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Finance: Get your refund fast by filing online.
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From Roger.E.Eller at sealedair.com  Wed Feb 11 15:45:31 2004
From: Roger.E.Eller at sealedair.com (Roger.E.Eller at sealedair.com)
Date: Wed, 11 Feb 2004 15:45:31 -0500
Subject: Transcript has a HUMAN orientation
Message-ID: <OFBD7392C4.51164377-ON85256E37.00714000@sealedair.com>

> Transcript has a HUMAN orientation.
> French, Chinese, or Hindi
> would serve just as well.
> 
> =====
> erik at erikhansen.org    http://www.erikhansen.org


You are correct, but all of the aliens on Star Trek speak English 
(although it is due to the Universal-Translator). ;^P   Now that would be 
a cool Rev plugin... Write your Transcript in your native language, and it 
is transformed to the standard that the IDE expects behind the scenes. 
Yes, I know this is un-realistic (far too much work to build), at least 
for me.

Roger Eller <roger.e.eller at sealedair.com


From scott at tactilemedia.com  Wed Feb 11 16:52:33 2004
From: scott at tactilemedia.com (Scott Rossi)
Date: Wed, 11 Feb 2004 13:52:33 -0800
Subject: Obscure Graphics Issue
Message-ID: <BC4FE421.A1A9%scott@tactilemedia.com>

For anyone delivering stacks with graphics on Windows 98...

I just spent an hour with a client trying to track down a mysterious
disappearing control composed of a couple of images that are hidden and
shown when pressing the spacebar.  It seems that this phenomenon occurs only
on Win98/Me/Gold, and only on one certain Compaq configuration.  The
solution found was to lock the screen before hiding/showing the images,
which apparently forced the screen to refresh and draw the images correctly.
This problem may be due to the fact that the images are PNG images (I
believe this format wasn't really implemented until after Win98 was
released), or that the video driver on the Compaq system needed to be
updated.

Whatever the reason, locking the screen appeared to work, so if you're
delivering stacks on Windows 98, you might want to file this away for later
reference to possibly save yourself some support headaches.

Regards,

Scott Rossi
Creative Director
Tactile Media, Multimedia & Design
-----
E: scott at tactilemedia.com
W: http://www.tactilemedia.com


From smilingeyes at mac.com  Wed Feb 11 17:16:39 2004
From: smilingeyes at mac.com (Ray Bennett)
Date: Wed, 11 Feb 2004 17:16:39 -0500
Subject: Array question again.
In-Reply-To: <20040210153351.13E963CF0@xprdmailfe4.nwk.excite.com>
Message-ID: <F67F818A-5CDF-11D8-A2A3-0030657E2BD2@mac.com>

Hi Kevin,
Delayed because of lack of time and jetlag.  In Santiago, Chile just 
now.  Will return on Friday.

I'd recommend you test it to see.  I don't know what else to advise.  
My gut tells me that it'll work as you suspect without you having to 
garbage collect yourself, but I can imagine scenarios in which it 
wouldn't.

Sorry.
Ray


On Tuesday, February 10, 2004, at 10:33 AM, Kevin wrote:

>
>
> My question is regarding the underpinnings more than anything else.  
> If I put empty into a[0] is a[0,1] a[0,2] ... also garb rage collected 
> or must I set each individual element equal to empty to ensure 
> collection?
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Join Excite! - http://www.excite.com
> The most personalized portal on the Web!
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution


From erikhans08 at yahoo.com  Wed Feb 11 18:53:01 2004
From: erikhans08 at yahoo.com (erik hansen)
Date: Wed, 11 Feb 2004 15:53:01 -0800 (PST)
Subject: RunRev.com needs a Find
In-Reply-To: <BC2C2FED.3B531%ambassador@fourthworld.com>
Message-ID: <20040211235301.48453.qmail@web61110.mail.yahoo.com>

RunRev.com needs a Find

=====
erik at erikhansen.org    http://www.erikhansen.org

__________________________________
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http://taxes.yahoo.com/filing.html

From HyperChris at aol.com  Wed Feb 11 18:54:07 2004
From: HyperChris at aol.com (HyperChris at aol.com)
Date: Wed, 11 Feb 2004 18:54:07 EST
Subject: RR as a browser plugin?
Message-ID: <109.2c87ab6e.2d5c1a9f@aol.com>

Richard,

I thought long and hard (well you know ... in web time) about your 
explanation to my plug-in question during your Rev seminar at MacWorld SF and I agree 
with all of your points. It forced me to realize that what I wanted, however, 
was different than that for which I asked!   Instead of a rev engine plug-in, I 
want one that makes the following scenario happen ....
   i roll out a web page with a link to my rev stack
   that triggers a "plug-in required" the user accepts
   the plug-in is downloaded
       it launches and downloads the rev client app
         AND (most importantly)
       configures the browser to use the app as the helper for the rev type
   the link to the rev stack now goes through and launches the rev helper app

That type of scenario cuts the roll-out cost of the app significantly. IT 
would not have to go around and configure everyone. If we can offer that to 
clients then we will be local heroes. The village people would sign songs about us 
...

Christopher

From 3mcgrath at adelphia.net  Wed Feb 11 19:04:20 2004
From: 3mcgrath at adelphia.net (Thomas McGrath III)
Date: Wed, 11 Feb 2004 19:04:20 -0500
Subject: Custom button behavior (was Windows appearance issues)
In-Reply-To: <048401c3f0d9$2af514a0$6601a8c0@LightningFlash>
References: <048401c3f0d9$2af514a0$6601a8c0@LightningFlash>
Message-ID: <01FFC3AF-5CEF-11D8-98B4-000A95DA60FA@adelphia.net>

Ken,

Is there a way to set a drop shadow on these fake / real buttons? I 
mean automatically like the "hiliteIcon" etc.

Tom


On Feb 11, 2004, at 2:56 PM, Ken Ray wrote:

>> I used to provide for standard HIG button behavior (sliding
>> the cursor out unhilites, etc.) with "the mouse" (if the
>> mouse is within the rect of me...else...), but in Rev it
>> should probably be done with 'mouseMove'.
>>
>> I can't seem to get the behavior to work right with
>> 'mouseMove'. Does anyone have a generic script?
>>
>> Haven't had to deal with this before in Rev, because I just
>> worked Mac stuff.
>
> Ken, you don't need to do this. You just need to create graphics for 
> the
> different states of your button, then create a transparent button and:
>
> 1) set the "icon" of the button to the graphic that corresponds to its
> normal (unclicked or "up") state
> 2) set the "hiliteIcon" of the button to the graphic that corresponds 
> to
> its depressed (or "down") state
>
> These will make it act like a true buttton (i.e. if you mouse down and
> slide out of the button, it will return to its normal state until you
> mouse back in and it goes back to its "down" state)
>
> 3) (optional) if you want a different graphic for the state of the
> button when it's disabled, set the "disabledIcon" of the button to the
> graphic that corresponds to the disabled state
>
> 4) (optional) if you want a different graphic for the state when the
> mouse is moved into and over the button but the mouse is not down (it's
> "rollover" state), set the "armedIcon" of the button to the graphic 
> that
> corresponds to the rollover state
>
>
> HTH,
>
> Ken Ray
> Sons of Thunder Software
> Email: kray at sonsothunder.com
> Web Site: http://www.sonsothunder.com/
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>
>

Thomas J. McGrath III
SCS
1000 Killarney Dr.
Pittsburgh, PA 15234
412-885-8541


From dsc at swcp.com  Wed Feb 11 19:04:47 2004
From: dsc at swcp.com (Dar Scott)
Date: Wed, 11 Feb 2004 17:04:47 -0700
Subject: RR as a browser plugin?
In-Reply-To: <109.2c87ab6e.2d5c1a9f@aol.com>
Message-ID: <12151975-5CEF-11D8-9DEE-000A9567A3E6@swcp.com>


On Wednesday, February 11, 2004, at 04:54 PM, HyperChris at aol.com wrote:

> and launches the rev helper app

What does it take to turn an app into a helper app?  I have never made 
a browser plugin.

> the village people would sign songs about us
> ...

What an image.

Dar Scott


From dsc at swcp.com  Wed Feb 11 19:09:53 2004
From: dsc at swcp.com (Dar Scott)
Date: Wed, 11 Feb 2004 17:09:53 -0700
Subject: Custom button behavior (was Windows appearance issues)
In-Reply-To: <01FFC3AF-5CEF-11D8-98B4-000A95DA60FA@adelphia.net>
Message-ID: <C87D8390-5CEF-11D8-9DEE-000A9567A3E6@swcp.com>


On Wednesday, February 11, 2004, at 05:04 PM, Thomas McGrath III wrote:

> Is there a way to set a drop shadow on these fake / real buttons? I 
> mean automatically like the "hiliteIcon" etc.

I assume that alpha channel (transparency) is respected in buttons.  If 
so, you can add shadows to the images.  You can also put the shadow in 
a separate image and put that behind.  I'm thinking of even adding a 
hint of reflection.

Dar Scott


From briany at qldlearning.com  Wed Feb 11 19:16:52 2004
From: briany at qldlearning.com (Brian Yennie)
Date: Wed, 11 Feb 2004 19:16:52 -0500
Subject: Revolution IS rock-solid
In-Reply-To: <CB82E9CE-5CCB-11D8-8B65-0030654C1E62@realtorsgroup.us>
Message-ID: <C23C93D3-5CF0-11D8-9553-000393AA08D2@qldlearning.com>

Although it probably shouldn't cause a crash, I think you are probably 
creating endless recursion here.
Every time the field closes, you are putting the focus back on it- so 
when you try to close the stack it is probably repeatedly trying to 
close the field, getting the focus back, trying to close it again, 
getting the focus,...etc

HTH
Brian

> on closeField
>   set the caseSensitive to false
>   find field "Find Field" in  field "list field"
>   focus on field "find field"
> end closeField
>
> on exitField
>   set the caseSensitive to false
>   find field "Find Field" in  field "list field"
>   focus on field "find field"
> end exitField
>  Now when I press a button "close this stack" the application crashes.


From pixelbird at interisland.net  Wed Feb 11 19:31:42 2004
From: pixelbird at interisland.net (Ken Norris)
Date: Wed, 11 Feb 2004 16:31:42 -0800
Subject: Custom button behavior (was Windows appearance issues)
In-Reply-To: <20040211201951.74C07930456@mail.runrev.com>
Message-ID: <BC50096E.4EE9%pixelbird@interisland.net>

on 2/11/04 12:19 PM, use-revolution-request at lists.runrev.com at
use-revolution-request at lists.runrev.com wrote:

> Date: Wed, 11 Feb 2004 13:56:35 -0600
> From: "Ken Ray" <kray at sonsothunder.com>
> Subject: RE: Custom button behavior (was Windows appearance issues)
>> 
>> Haven't had to deal with this before in Rev, because I just
>> worked Mac stuff.
> 
> Ken, you don't need to do this. You just need to create graphics for the
> different states of your button, then create a transparent button and:
------------
You know, I already knew this. I must've been really sleepy, and just forgot

Sorreeee,
Ken N.


From dsc at swcp.com  Wed Feb 11 19:34:10 2004
From: dsc at swcp.com (Dar Scott)
Date: Wed, 11 Feb 2004 17:34:10 -0700
Subject: Revolution IS rock-solid
In-Reply-To: <C23C93D3-5CF0-11D8-9553-000393AA08D2@qldlearning.com>
Message-ID: <2CB888BE-5CF3-11D8-9DEE-000A9567A3E6@swcp.com>


On Wednesday, February 11, 2004, at 05:16 PM, Brian Yennie wrote:

> Although it probably shouldn't cause a crash, I think you are probably 
> creating endless recursion here.

My guess, too.  There is a bugzilla entry (which is assigned!) for a 
recursion bug that showed up when script debugging was on.  I think it 
likely that when that is fixed a meaningful error message will pop up 
instead of a crash happening.  Well, as meaningful as some message 
about recursion or stacks can be.

Dar Scott


From alex at mindlube.com  Wed Feb 11 19:40:46 2004
From: alex at mindlube.com (Alex Rice)
Date: Wed, 11 Feb 2004 17:40:46 -0700
Subject: RunRev.com needs a Find
In-Reply-To: <20040211235301.48453.qmail@web61110.mail.yahoo.com>
References: <20040211235301.48453.qmail@web61110.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <18CC3BC8-5CF4-11D8-A0E9-000393C4760A@mindlube.com>


On Feb 11, 2004, at 4:53 PM, erik hansen wrote:

> RunRev.com needs a Find
>
Yep. instead you can do a google.com search with:

	"your search stuff" +site:runrev.com

Or to search just this list
<http://mindlube.com/cgi-bin/search-use-rev.cgi>

--
Alex Rice | Mindlube Software | http://mindlube.com


From kray at sonsothunder.com  Wed Feb 11 19:57:52 2004
From: kray at sonsothunder.com (Ken Ray)
Date: Wed, 11 Feb 2004 18:57:52 -0600
Subject: RR as a browser plugin?
In-Reply-To: <109.2c87ab6e.2d5c1a9f@aol.com>
Message-ID: <04c401c3f103$4230dbc0$6601a8c0@LightningFlash>

> The village people would sign songs about us 

Oh, good... then I wouldn't have to hear them...

;-)

Ken Ray
Sons of Thunder Software
Email: kray at sonsothunder.com
Web Site: http://www.sonsothunder.com/ 



From jacque at hyperactivesw.com  Wed Feb 11 21:07:01 2004
From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay)
Date: Wed, 11 Feb 2004 20:07:01 -0600
Subject: OT: Village signing [was: RR as a browser plugin?]
In-Reply-To: <109.2c87ab6e.2d5c1a9f@aol.com>
References: <109.2c87ab6e.2d5c1a9f@aol.com>
Message-ID: <402ADFC5.5020102@hyperactivesw.com>

On 2/11/04 5:54 PM, HyperChris at aol.com wrote:

> The village people would sign songs about us 

Not to beat a dead horse, but I have to add: In a previous incarnation I 
was a sign language interpreter. I have actually done this.

Off topic: We have a Renaissance Festival here, and one weekend they 
provided sign interpreters. I had to interpret a group of fishwives 
singing Ye Bawdy Olde English Drinking Songs -- one of which was 
entitled, and reiterated many times, "my husband has no courage in him."

There is really no legitimate sign for that. I chose to use a gradually 
drooping index finger. The entire audience, both hearing and deaf, never 
took their eyes off me for the whole performance. The singers were torn 
between being miffed at the lack of attention paid to them, and elated 
that they had never had so many laughs during any previous performance. 
Eventually they asked if I wanted to come back and do it again the next 
weekend.

-- 
Jacqueline Landman Gay         |     jacque at hyperactivesw.com
HyperActive Software           |     http://www.hyperactivesw.com

From doug at webcrossing.com  Wed Feb 11 21:31:23 2004
From: doug at webcrossing.com (Doug Lerner)
Date: Thu, 12 Feb 2004 11:31:23 +0900
Subject: distributing data files with builds
Message-ID: <BC51148B.26607%doug@webcrossing.com>

Say I wanted to include a text file, like a version "history", with my
standalone apps.

1. Is there an automatic way of having the file copied into all the builds'
folders, or do I have to place them there manually? If so, I'll just keep
the version history in a field or something...

2. When in the IDE I use the "effective filepath of this stack" to locate
the external text file. For the standalone app, this didn't work. I guess I
have to use the "defaultFolder" instead. Is there something I can use that
will work for both the IDE and standalone app?

Thanks,

doug
 


From chrism at lumin.us  Wed Feb 11 21:39:39 2004
From: chrism at lumin.us (Christopher Mitchell)
Date: Wed, 11 Feb 2004 20:39:39 -0600
Subject: RR as a browser plugin?
In-Reply-To: <04c401c3f103$4230dbc0$6601a8c0@LightningFlash>
References: <04c401c3f103$4230dbc0$6601a8c0@LightningFlash>
Message-ID: <B4164029-5D04-11D8-9EB4-000393B64EDC@lumin.us>

perhaps he forgot to specify that they would be singing the songs 
outside your window...

This is an interesting idea, though, and something I think would be 
helpful.  As was mentioned, however, it is unfortunately a non-trivial 
request for some people to have to install any 3rd party helper (it is 
only non-trivial when the 3rd party engines are installed without them 
knowing about it) because then they might have some thoughts about 
whether it is ""secure.""  in this case, then, following the threads 
about product placement, it might be a good thing that there is a 
Mac-centric flavor to the perception.  Not many people make too many 
jokes about Apple or Apple products as being "laughably insecure," 
unlike some competitors.

Automating a single install of the runtime (and keeping it current) 
would be really interesting, and if implemented as described, could be 
used for other purposes.  If there was one unified runtime 
download/install/setup-as-helper, then standalone apps could be 
generated in a mode more reminiscent of a stack - just a pointer 
executable that verifies the engine is already there, and if not 
downloads and/or updates it.  Why have a separate engine in each 
standalone app if it could be had and used in one location, 
instantiated for each instance of Revolution app that is run at any 
given time.

just thinking outloud.

Yours,
Chris
On Feb 11, 2004, at 6:57 PM, Ken Ray wrote:

>> The village people would sign songs about us
>
> Oh, good... then I wouldn't have to hear them...
>
> ;-)
>
> Ken Ray
> Sons of Thunder Software
> Email: kray at sonsothunder.com
> Web Site: http://www.sonsothunder.com/
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>


From ambassador at fourthworld.com  Wed Feb 11 22:08:34 2004
From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin)
Date: Wed, 11 Feb 2004 19:08:34 -0800
Subject: RR as a browser plugin?
In-Reply-To: <109.2c87ab6e.2d5c1a9f@aol.com>
Message-ID: <BC502E32.3D32B%ambassador@fourthworld.com>

HyperChris at aol.com wrote:

> Instead of a rev engine plug-in, I
> want one that makes the following scenario happen ....
> i roll out a web page with a link to my rev stack
> that triggers a "plug-in required" the user accepts
> the plug-in is downloaded
> it launches and downloads the rev client app
> AND (most importantly)
> configures the browser to use the app as the helper for the rev type
> the link to the rev stack now goes through and launches the rev helper app
> 
> That type of scenario cuts the roll-out cost of the app significantly. IT
> would not have to go around and configure everyone. If we can offer that to
> clients then we will be local heroes.

Yes, that would be as desirable as women being able to walk city streets at
night without escort.  But sadly neither is possible, for the same reason:
criminals abound.

A system that could automate what you've described would also allow the
automatic installation of any executable, including spyware, viruses, or
more dangerous, Microsoft products.

-- 
 Richard Gaskin 
 Fourth World Media Corporation
 ___________________________________________________________
 Ambassador at FourthWorld.com       http://www.FourthWorld.com


From 3mcgrath at adelphia.net  Wed Feb 11 22:42:48 2004
From: 3mcgrath at adelphia.net (Thomas McGrath III)
Date: Wed, 11 Feb 2004 22:42:48 -0500
Subject: distributing data files with builds
In-Reply-To: <BC51148B.26607%doug@webcrossing.com>
References: <BC51148B.26607%doug@webcrossing.com>
Message-ID: <869E1825-5D0D-11D8-98B4-000A95DA60FA@adelphia.net>

Doug,

I use the :
if the environment is "Development" then
	....effective.......
else -- we are in standalone
	....fix the default folder...
end if

This way id doesn't matter where I'm at.

Tom

On Feb 11, 2004, at 9:31 PM, Doug Lerner wrote:

> Say I wanted to include a text file, like a version "history", with my
> standalone apps.
>
> 1. Is there an automatic way of having the file copied into all the 
> builds'
> folders, or do I have to place them there manually? If so, I'll just 
> keep
> the version history in a field or something...
>
> 2. When in the IDE I use the "effective filepath of this stack" to 
> locate
> the external text file. For the standalone app, this didn't work. I 
> guess I
> have to use the "defaultFolder" instead. Is there something I can use 
> that
> will work for both the IDE and standalone app?
>
> Thanks,
>
> doug
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>
>

Thomas J. McGrath III
SCS
1000 Killarney Dr.
Pittsburgh, PA 15234
412-885-8541


From monte at sweattechnologies.com  Wed Feb 11 22:51:12 2004
From: monte at sweattechnologies.com (Monte Goulding)
Date: Thu, 12 Feb 2004 14:21:12 +1030
Subject: distributing data files with builds
In-Reply-To: <BC51148B.26607%doug@webcrossing.com>
Message-ID: <FLEGJBMJADGKMCHIMFOHAEHHEAAA.monte@sweattechnologies.com>


> 1. Is there an automatic way of having the file copied into all
> the builds'
> folders, or do I have to place them there manually? If so, I'll just keep
> the version history in a field or something...

This is in the new standalone builder.
>
> 2. When in the IDE I use the "effective filepath of this stack" to locate
> the external text file. For the standalone app, this didn't work.
> I guess I
> have to use the "defaultFolder" instead. Is there something I can use that
> will work for both the IDE and standalone app?

Why doesn't the effective filepath of this stack work for you?

Cheers

Monte


From doug at webcrossing.com  Wed Feb 11 22:51:18 2004
From: doug at webcrossing.com (Doug Lerner)
Date: Thu, 12 Feb 2004 12:51:18 +0900
Subject: New menu item supplanting old one
Message-ID: <BC512746.2661D%doug@webcrossing.com>

I added a "Version History" item to the Help menu using the Menu Builder.

When I do this, the currently existing About menu item no longer shows up in
the OS X File menu.

If I delete the "Version History" item, it again shows up.

Any idea what is happening?

Thanks,

doug


From doug at webcrossing.com  Wed Feb 11 22:51:33 2004
From: doug at webcrossing.com (Doug Lerner)
Date: Thu, 12 Feb 2004 12:51:33 +0900
Subject: distributing data files with builds
In-Reply-To: <869E1825-5D0D-11D8-98B4-000A95DA60FA@adelphia.net>
Message-ID: <BC512755.2661F%doug@webcrossing.com>

Thanks, Tom. That helped.

doug

On 2/12/04 12:42 PM, "Thomas McGrath III" <3mcgrath at adelphia.net> wrote:

> Doug,
> 
> I use the :
> if the environment is "Development" then
> ....effective.......
> else -- we are in standalone
> ....fix the default folder...
> end if
> 
> This way id doesn't matter where I'm at.
> 
> Tom
> 
> On Feb 11, 2004, at 9:31 PM, Doug Lerner wrote:
> 
>> Say I wanted to include a text file, like a version "history", with my
>> standalone apps.
>> 
>> 1. Is there an automatic way of having the file copied into all the
>> builds'
>> folders, or do I have to place them there manually? If so, I'll just
>> keep
>> the version history in a field or something...
>> 
>> 2. When in the IDE I use the "effective filepath of this stack" to
>> locate
>> the external text file. For the standalone app, this didn't work. I
>> guess I
>> have to use the "defaultFolder" instead. Is there something I can use
>> that
>> will work for both the IDE and standalone app?
>> 
>> Thanks,
>> 
>> doug
>> 
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> use-revolution mailing list
>> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>> 
>> 
> 
> Thomas J. McGrath III
> SCS
> 1000 Killarney Dr.
> Pittsburgh, PA 15234
> 412-885-8541
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution


From doug at webcrossing.com  Wed Feb 11 22:52:45 2004
From: doug at webcrossing.com (Doug Lerner)
Date: Thu, 12 Feb 2004 12:52:45 +0900
Subject: distributing data files with builds
In-Reply-To: <FLEGJBMJADGKMCHIMFOHAEHHEAAA.monte@sweattechnologies.com>
Message-ID: <BC51279D.26622%doug@webcrossing.com>

On 2/12/04 12:51 PM, "Monte Goulding" <monte at sweattechnologies.com> wrote:

> 
>> 1. Is there an automatic way of having the file copied into all
>> the builds'
>> folders, or do I have to place them there manually? If so, I'll just keep
>> the version history in a field or something...
> 
> This is in the new standalone builder.

Something newer than 2.1.2?

>> 
>> 2. When in the IDE I use the "effective filepath of this stack" to locate
>> the external text file. For the standalone app, this didn't work.
>> I guess I
>> have to use the "defaultFolder" instead. Is there something I can use that
>> will work for both the IDE and standalone app?
> 
> Why doesn't the effective filepath of this stack work for you?

I am not sure why in the case of standalone it doesn't work.

doug


From chrism at lumin.us  Wed Feb 11 22:55:04 2004
From: chrism at lumin.us (Christopher Mitchell)
Date: Wed, 11 Feb 2004 21:55:04 -0600
Subject: RR as a browser plugin?
In-Reply-To: <BC502E32.3D32B%ambassador@fourthworld.com>
References: <BC502E32.3D32B%ambassador@fourthworld.com>
Message-ID: <3DAB9F77-5D0F-11D8-9EB4-000393B64EDC@lumin.us>

So I guess then the distinction "brower plugin" implies it runs in a 
heavily partitioned area that keeps it safe from being able to be 
exploited to damage the system... that could still be useful but it is 
probably easier or at least more useful to build the browser into Rev 
than to build rev into the browser.

but for a bit of hope, I witnessed lots of women walking the streets 
unescorted at night in Buenos Aires last summer.  I will keep my 
further comments mum!

Yours,
Chris
On Feb 11, 2004, at 9:08 PM, Richard Gaskin wrote:

> HyperChris at aol.com wrote:
>
>> Instead of a rev engine plug-in, I
>> want one that makes the following scenario happen ....
>> i roll out a web page with a link to my rev stack
>> that triggers a "plug-in required" the user accepts
>> the plug-in is downloaded
>> it launches and downloads the rev client app
>> AND (most importantly)
>> configures the browser to use the app as the helper for the rev type
>> the link to the rev stack now goes through and launches the rev 
>> helper app
>>
>> That type of scenario cuts the roll-out cost of the app 
>> significantly. IT
>> would not have to go around and configure everyone. If we can offer 
>> that to
>> clients then we will be local heroes.
>
> Yes, that would be as desirable as women being able to walk city 
> streets at
> night without escort.  But sadly neither is possible, for the same 
> reason:
> criminals abound.
>
> A system that could automate what you've described would also allow the
> automatic installation of any executable, including spyware, viruses, 
> or
> more dangerous, Microsoft products.
>
> -- 
>  Richard Gaskin
>  Fourth World Media Corporation
>  ___________________________________________________________
>  Ambassador at FourthWorld.com       http://www.FourthWorld.com
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>


From monte at sweattechnologies.com  Wed Feb 11 23:06:33 2004
From: monte at sweattechnologies.com (Monte Goulding)
Date: Thu, 12 Feb 2004 14:36:33 +1030
Subject: distributing data files with builds
In-Reply-To: <BC51279D.26622%doug@webcrossing.com>
Message-ID: <FLEGJBMJADGKMCHIMFOHAEHIEAAA.monte@sweattechnologies.com>

> > This is in the new standalone builder.
> 
> Something newer than 2.1.2?

Yes... not released yet ;-)

Cheers

Monte

From doug at webcrossing.com  Wed Feb 11 23:13:39 2004
From: doug at webcrossing.com (Doug Lerner)
Date: Thu, 12 Feb 2004 13:13:39 +0900
Subject: distributing data files with builds
In-Reply-To: <FLEGJBMJADGKMCHIMFOHAEHIEAAA.monte@sweattechnologies.com>
Message-ID: <BC512C83.2662C%doug@webcrossing.com>

On 2/12/04 1:06 PM, "Monte Goulding" <monte at sweattechnologies.com> wrote:

>>> This is in the new standalone builder.
>> 
>> Something newer than 2.1.2?
> 
> Yes... not released yet ;-)
>

Well, that was helpful. :)

doug


From n.thieberger at linguistics.unimelb.edu.au  Wed Feb 11 23:33:19 2004
From: n.thieberger at linguistics.unimelb.edu.au (n.thieberger at linguistics.unimelb.edu.au)
Date: Thu, 12 Feb 2004 15:33:19 +1100
Subject: import tools
In-Reply-To: <20040211104453.114F8930298@mail.runrev.com>
References: <20040211104453.114F8930298@mail.runrev.com>
Message-ID: <p06010211bc50b1feb409@[128.250.86.175]>

I used to use the import/export tools stack in HyperCard and wonder 
if anyone has a similar tool for RR?
I am trying to get a routine to import comma separated or tab 
separated text into separate fields in RR.

thanks

Nick

-- 

Project Manager
PARADISEC
Pacific And Regional Archive for DIgital Sources in Endangered Cultures
http://www.paradisec.org.au


nickt at paradisec.org.au
Department of Linguistics and Applied Linguistics
University of Melbourne
Vic 3010
Australia

Ph 61 (0)3 8344 5185

From ambassador at fourthworld.com  Wed Feb 11 23:51:02 2004
From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin)
Date: Wed, 11 Feb 2004 20:51:02 -0800
Subject: New 'Transcript' category in DMOZ
In-Reply-To: <000d01c3e7f2$e6bfb090$10fcd0c3@npt>
Message-ID: <BC504635.3D341%ambassador@fourthworld.com>


The other day I took a few minutes to add some Transcript-related web sites
to the Open Directory Project (DMOZ), and asked the section editor for
"DMOZ/Computers/Programming/Languages/" if he would consider adding a new
category for Transcript.

It seems the editor, Mr. Vladimir Merzliakov, is a very efficient gentleman
-- in less than 36 hours he's created a new section for us:

<http://dmoz.org/Computers/Programming/Languages/Transcript/>

If you have a site with Transcript resources (libraries, examples, tools,
etc.) not already listed there just use the "suggest URL" link at the top of
that page to add it.

DMOZ helps feed Google, plays a key part in AOL's search, and is mirrored
worldwide.  Placement in relevant DMOZ categories has done good things for
me, and hopefully the addition of this new category will help all of us who
program in Transcript.

If nothing else, the branding value of adding Transcript to DMOZ'
Programming Languages category helps legitimize the language among
programmers who frequent that category.

Once we get a few dozen links there I'll suggest a category addition for
"Revolution" at "DMOZ/Computers/Programming/Development Tools".

--
 Richard Gaskin 
 Fourth World Media Corporation
 Software Design and Development for Mac, Windows, Linux, and the Web
 ____________________________________________________________________
 Ambassador at FourthWorld.com                http://www.FourthWorld.com


From stephenREVOLUTION at barncard.com  Wed Feb 11 23:53:26 2004
From: stephenREVOLUTION at barncard.com (Stephen Quinn Barncard)
Date: Wed, 11 Feb 2004 20:53:26 -0800
Subject: import tools
Message-ID: <p06020408bc50b6e00166@[192.168.1.100]>

Nick, this is so simple, it would be an excellent exercise in coding..
you could do it in less than 10 lines of code...

>I used to use the import/export tools stack in HyperCard and wonder 
>if anyone has a similar tool for RR?
>I am trying to get a routine to import comma separated or tab 
>separated text into separate fields in RR.
>
>thanks
>
>Nick
>

From 3mcgrath at adelphia.net  Wed Feb 11 23:58:09 2004
From: 3mcgrath at adelphia.net (Thomas McGrath III)
Date: Wed, 11 Feb 2004 23:58:09 -0500
Subject: New menu item supplanting old one
In-Reply-To: <BC512746.2661D%doug@webcrossing.com>
References: <BC512746.2661D%doug@webcrossing.com>
Message-ID: <0DCB2A19-5D18-11D8-98B4-000A95DA60FA@adelphia.net>

I would check the number of menu lines in the property inspector first.

Tom


On Feb 11, 2004, at 10:51 PM, Doug Lerner wrote:

> I added a "Version History" item to the Help menu using the Menu 
> Builder.
>
> When I do this, the currently existing About menu item no longer shows 
> up in
> the OS X File menu.
>
> If I delete the "Version History" item, it again shows up.
>
> Any idea what is happening?
>
> Thanks,
>
> doug
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>
>

Thomas J. McGrath III
SCS
1000 Killarney Dr.
Pittsburgh, PA 15234
412-885-8541


From doug at webcrossing.com  Thu Feb 12 00:49:48 2004
From: doug at webcrossing.com (Doug Lerner)
Date: Thu, 12 Feb 2004 14:49:48 +0900
Subject: New menu item supplanting old one
In-Reply-To: <0DCB2A19-5D18-11D8-98B4-000A95DA60FA@adelphia.net>
Message-ID: <BC51430C.26647%doug@webcrossing.com>

I'm not sure what you mean. If I open up the menu group, I don't see a
"number of menu lines" property in any of the sections...

doug

On 2/12/04 1:58 PM, "Thomas McGrath III" <3mcgrath at adelphia.net> wrote:

> I would check the number of menu lines in the property inspector first.
> 
> Tom
> 
> 
> On Feb 11, 2004, at 10:51 PM, Doug Lerner wrote:
> 
>> I added a "Version History" item to the Help menu using the Menu
>> Builder.
>> 
>> When I do this, the currently existing About menu item no longer shows
>> up in
>> the OS X File menu.
>> 
>> If I delete the "Version History" item, it again shows up.
>> 
>> Any idea what is happening?
>> 
>> Thanks,
>> 
>> doug
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> use-revolution mailing list
>> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>> 
>> 
> 
> Thomas J. McGrath III
> SCS
> 1000 Killarney Dr.
> Pittsburgh, PA 15234
> 412-885-8541
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution


From alex at mindlube.com  Thu Feb 12 00:57:34 2004
From: alex at mindlube.com (Alex Rice)
Date: Wed, 11 Feb 2004 22:57:34 -0700
Subject: import tools
In-Reply-To: <p06010211bc50b1feb409@[128.250.86.175]>
References: <20040211104453.114F8930298@mail.runrev.com>
	<p06010211bc50b1feb409@[128.250.86.175]>
Message-ID: <5A5954BA-5D20-11D8-A0E9-000393C4760A@mindlube.com>


On Feb 11, 2004, at 9:33 PM, n.thieberger at linguistics.unimelb.edu.au 
wrote:

> I used to use the import/export tools stack in HyperCard and wonder if 
> anyone has a similar tool for RR?

Not familiar with it, sorry.

> I am trying to get a routine to import comma separated or tab 
> separated text into separate fields in RR.

Check out the text chunking in transcript, especially "item"

set the itemDelimiter to tab -- is comma by default!
put item 1 of tSomeText info field "item1Stuff"
put item 2 of tSomeText into field "item2Stuff"

Hope this helps,

--
Alex Rice | Mindlube Software | http://mindlube.com


From revolution at jaedworks.com  Thu Feb 12 00:56:46 2004
From: revolution at jaedworks.com (Jeanne A. E. DeVoto)
Date: Wed, 11 Feb 2004 21:56:46 -0800
Subject: Andy's comments and positioning...
In-Reply-To: <a0602043bbc4ef7f3c492@[141.89.100.235]>
References:  <Pine.GSO.4.33.0402101021040.19092-100000@titan.ecs.fullerton.edu>
 <p060102fabc4edae9b813@[10.0.1.3]>
 <a0602043bbc4ef7f3c492@[141.89.100.235]>
Message-ID: <p0601023ebc4f1c630517@[10.0.1.3]>

At 10:06 PM +0100 2/10/04, Robert Brenstein wrote:
>
>What is the advantage of inserting backscript as opposed to just 
>start using? Aside of course from the difference that I can insert 
>script of any object as a backscript.

That's pretty much it. In a plugin, the natural place for the 
openStack handler is in the stack script, and if you start using the 
plugin stack, you need to put a little extra logic into the openStack 
handler to make sure it doesn't run every time any stack is opened 
(because it's going to be in the message path, if you start using 
it). Putting the library code in a button instead sidesteps the whole 
issue.

Also, it's a little easier to manage multiple libraries this way. You 
can add buttons to your plugin to hold various libraries, and insert 
them or not as you prefer, in a very simple way.
-- 
jeanne a. e. devoto ~ jaed at jaedworks.com
http://www.jaedworks.com

From revolution at jaedworks.com  Thu Feb 12 01:05:52 2004
From: revolution at jaedworks.com (Jeanne A. E. DeVoto)
Date: Wed, 11 Feb 2004 22:05:52 -0800
Subject: New menu item supplanting old one
In-Reply-To: <BC512746.2661D%doug@webcrossing.com>
References: <BC512746.2661D%doug@webcrossing.com>
Message-ID: <p060102efbc50c7e540cd@[10.0.1.3]>

At 12:51 PM +0900 2/12/04, Doug Lerner wrote:
>I added a "Version History" item to the Help menu using the Menu Builder.
>
>When I do this, the currently existing About menu item no longer shows up in
>the OS X File menu.
>
>If I delete the "Version History" item, it again shows up.
>
>Any idea what is happening?

Are you adding the Version History item to the end of the Help menu? 
On Mac OS and OS X, Revolution deletes the last two items from the 
Help menu - it assumes the last two items are a separator line and 
the "About" item - so to add more items to the Help menu, you need to 
make sure the new items are added above this separator line.
-- 
jeanne a. e. devoto ~ jaed at jaedworks.com
http://www.jaedworks.com

From briany at qldlearning.com  Thu Feb 12 01:07:46 2004
From: briany at qldlearning.com (Brian Yennie)
Date: Thu, 12 Feb 2004 01:07:46 -0500
Subject: RR as a browser plugin?
In-Reply-To: <BC502E32.3D32B%ambassador@fourthworld.com>
Message-ID: <C75B5536-5D21-11D8-9553-000393AA08D2@qldlearning.com>

I can only think of one way that Rev-in-a-browser would get mass 
acceptance, and that would require writing the world's most popular 
browser _in_ Revolution first. Which unfortunately doesn't seem too 
likely.

- Brian

> HyperChris at aol.com wrote:
>
>> Instead of a rev engine plug-in, I
>> want one that makes the following scenario happen ....
>> i roll out a web page with a link to my rev stack
>> that triggers a "plug-in required" the user accepts
>> the plug-in is downloaded
>> it launches and downloads the rev client app
>> AND (most importantly)
>> configures the browser to use the app as the helper for the rev type
>> the link to the rev stack now goes through and launches the rev 
>> helper app
>>
>> That type of scenario cuts the roll-out cost of the app 
>> significantly. IT
>> would not have to go around and configure everyone. If we can offer 
>> that to
>> clients then we will be local heroes.
>
> Yes, that would be as desirable as women being able to walk city 
> streets at
> night without escort.  But sadly neither is possible, for the same 
> reason:
> criminals abound.
>
> A system that could automate what you've described would also allow the
> automatic installation of any executable, including spyware, viruses, 
> or
> more dangerous, Microsoft products.
>
> -- 
>  Richard Gaskin
>  Fourth World Media Corporation
>  ___________________________________________________________
>  Ambassador at FourthWorld.com       http://www.FourthWorld.com
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>
>


From b.xavier at internet.lu  Thu Feb 12 01:32:29 2004
From: b.xavier at internet.lu (MisterX)
Date: Thu, 12 Feb 2004 07:32:29 +0100
Subject: 10 bugs in 2 minutes time!
In-Reply-To: <0DCB2A19-5D18-11D8-98B4-000A95DA60FA@adelphia.net>
Message-ID: <ENEALNOCJBOOOHHCCEKNIEPJFMAA.b.xavier@internet.lu>

- debugging - the script editor adds a few dozen lines to the end of my
script - you need to add a debug breakpoint, go in debug mode, abort, edit a
change with a non-error that is reported as an error and voila...
- debug breakpoint bar doesn't scroll as the script field - you end up
debugging not where you clicked! (This is the lack of synch scrolling via
mouse scroll in the breakpoint field which I've mentioned on previous
occasions.)
- Zooming a window with the zoom box doesn't respect the geometry manager
($)@%(*@%)(@%*@)(*I have to resize all the fields, groups AGAIN - What the
F***?) - This made my day already - one more day to release a stupid Farging
stack!!!
- Zooming a window with the zoom button doesn't zoom it all the way to the
window rect (props max height and width = 2^16...)
- you can't resize a zoomed stack thereafter without using the zoom box --
note the window is NOT full-screen-size (props)
- Geometry manager doesn't seem to respect the scaling offsets - I assume it
uses a percentage and not the border offsets - unreliable if you offset just
one or two pixels off another object.
- Group a number of objects. Show a field that's supposed to be above them,
select the field, try to send it above the group with the appropriate button
in the "Size and position" props and it doesn't work. You have to type a
high number in the position to make it work
- Making an object the same size as another via the props "Align objects"
and assuming that object as a geometry scale link to the window will make
the geometry of that object no work! Objects are in a group... You have to
resize the object manually for the geo mgr to work ok. The more damned you
are if you groupped them...
- a field in a grp, if you resize the object gets clipped, but if you move
it it doesn't - just more work either way...
- Close a stack with a script window left open - you get a dialog with
"close" or "Close and copy" the script window. Nothing is in the clipboard
if you choose close and copy

This the most stupid stack and the one that's given me the most trouble DUE
TO BUGS or non working features.

No, I wont spend 3 hours entering this in bugzilla who will surely not
record my bugs again.

I never had this many bugs in MC or HC or any other IDE in 20 years
development experience...

I dont think it's just me...

;( Really pissed customer...
X


From b.xavier at internet.lu  Thu Feb 12 01:32:30 2004
From: b.xavier at internet.lu (MisterX)
Date: Thu, 12 Feb 2004 07:32:30 +0100
Subject: Styled text challenge...
In-Reply-To: <4BE7B52A-5CB7-11D8-9DEE-000A9567A3E6@swcp.com>
Message-ID: <ENEALNOCJBOOOHHCCEKNKEPJFMAA.b.xavier@internet.lu>



> From: use-revolution-bounces at lists.runrev.com
> [mailto:use-revolution-bounces at lists.runrev.com]On Behalf Of Dar Scott
> Sent: Wednesday, February 11, 2004 18:26
> 
> On Wednesday, February 11, 2004, at 10:17 AM, xbury.cs at clearstream.com 
> wrote:
> 
> > Im not sure if i was clear,
> > I want to convert HTML text in fld "HTML" to RTF in fld "TEXT"
> 

> I could still be mixed up on what you want.

i grab an html page off the web, display it in a field
I also display the source and would like finaly to have the
html styled text to be outputed to a styled text field.

For stealth purposes, I wanted to use a HTML to RTF quick
conversion but it's not possible given the hurdles. Hurdle!
I could strip the link and image links and basta... 
The Result will be the same... It's given me more ideas ;)



From ambassador at fourthworld.com  Thu Feb 12 01:28:15 2004
From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin)
Date: Wed, 11 Feb 2004 22:28:15 -0800
Subject: Andy's comments and positioning...
In-Reply-To: <p0601023ebc4f1c630517@[10.0.1.3]>
Message-ID: <BC505CFE.3D35A%ambassador@fourthworld.com>

Jeanne A. E. DeVoto wrote:

>> What is the advantage of inserting backscript as opposed to just
>> start using? Aside of course from the difference that I can insert
>> script of any object as a backscript.
> 
> That's pretty much it. In a plugin, the natural place for the
> openStack handler is in the stack script, and if you start using the
> plugin stack, you need to put a little extra logic into the openStack
> handler to make sure it doesn't run every time any stack is opened
> (because it's going to be in the message path, if you start using
> it). Putting the library code in a button instead sidesteps the whole
> issue.

Alternatvely, for libraries you can put all UI-related stuff like openStack
handlers in the card script, safely outside the message path of other
stacks.

-- 
 Richard Gaskin 
 Fourth World Media Corporation
 Developer of WebMerge: Publish any database on any Web site
 ___________________________________________________________
 Ambassador at FourthWorld.com       http://www.FourthWorld.com


From dsc at swcp.com  Thu Feb 12 01:41:01 2004
From: dsc at swcp.com (Dar Scott)
Date: Wed, 11 Feb 2004 23:41:01 -0700
Subject: Styled text challenge...
In-Reply-To: <ENEALNOCJBOOOHHCCEKNKEPJFMAA.b.xavier@internet.lu>
Message-ID: <6C6C06AE-5D26-11D8-9DEE-000A9567A3E6@swcp.com>


On Wednesday, February 11, 2004, at 11:32 PM, MisterX wrote:

>> I could still be mixed up on what you want.
>
> i grab an html page off the web, display it in a field
> I also display the source and would like finaly to have the
> html styled text to be outputed to a styled text field.

There isn't a 'styled text field' per se.

Richard Gaskin's mail on the subject might help.  Look at that.

The htmlText, the rtfText and the text (plus chunk properties) are all 
different views of the same thing in any field.

Dar Scott


From pixelbird at interisland.net  Thu Feb 12 01:41:24 2004
From: pixelbird at interisland.net (Ken Norris)
Date: Wed, 11 Feb 2004 22:41:24 -0800
Subject: OT: Village signing [was: RR as a browser plugin?]
In-Reply-To: <20040212034334.989039302E1@mail.runrev.com>
Message-ID: <BC506014.4EFB%pixelbird@interisland.net>

Hi Jacque,

> Date: Wed, 11 Feb 2004 20:07:01 -0600
> From: "J. Landman Gay" <jacque at hyperactivesw.com>
> Subject: OT: Village signing [was: RR as a browser plugin?]
> 
> On 2/11/04 5:54 PM, HyperChris at aol.com wrote:
> 
>> The village people would sign songs about us
> 
> Not to beat a dead horse, but I have to add: In a previous incarnation I
> was a sign language interpreter. I have actually done this.
----------
I never knew that. I've been wanting to learn at least AMSLAN for a long
time, but there are no teachers or solid learning sources on this island, no
courses available.

Did you ever write a tutorial for learning it on the computer?

Ken N.


From frank at backtalk.com  Thu Feb 12 01:45:07 2004
From: frank at backtalk.com (Frank Leahy)
Date: Thu, 12 Feb 2004 06:45:07 +0000
Subject: New menu item supplanting old one
In-Reply-To: <20040212055025.4500193030B@mail.runrev.com>
Message-ID: <FEE7798C-5D26-11D8-B678-000A9580FCCE@backtalk.com>


On Thursday, February 12, 2004, at 05:50  AM, 
use-revolution-request at lists.runrev.com wrote:

>>
>>> I added a "Version History" item to the Help menu using the Menu
>>> Builder.
>>>
>>> When I do this, the currently existing About menu item no longer 
>>> shows
>>> up in
>>> the OS X File menu.
>>>
>>> If I delete the "Version History" item, it again shows up.
>>>
>>> Any idea what is happening?
>>>
>>> Thanks,
>>>
>>> doug

In OSX in order for RR to move the About menu to the App menu (you did 
mean App menu not File menu right?) the last two menu items need to be 
a blank line (-) followed by About  Your menu needs to look like this:

Help
Version History
-
About

or

Help
-
Version History
-
About

-- Frank


From mcdomi at free.fr  Thu Feb 12 01:48:17 2004
From: mcdomi at free.fr (Dom)
Date: Thu, 12 Feb 2004 07:48:17 +0100
Subject: Is Transcript's English orientation a plus or minus?
In-Reply-To: <BC500022.2AAEF%kevin@runrev.com>
Message-ID: <1g90a4y.164gv2s1370dq4M%mcdomi@free.fr>

Kevin Miller <kevin at runrev.com> wrote:

> We believe programming should be like
> creativity, like drawing or writing, not like arcane.

Bravo !

-- 
Vous parlez fran?ais ? faites un tour sur le groupe francophone !
revolutionfr-subscribe at yahoogroupes.fr
Jetez un oeil sur RevoBlog <http://revoblog.free.fr> !

From doug at webcrossing.com  Thu Feb 12 01:49:11 2004
From: doug at webcrossing.com (Doug Lerner)
Date: Thu, 12 Feb 2004 15:49:11 +0900
Subject: New menu item supplanting old one
In-Reply-To: <p060102efbc50c7e540cd@[10.0.1.3]>
Message-ID: <BC5150F7.26664%doug@webcrossing.com>

On 2/12/04 3:05 PM, "Jeanne A. E. DeVoto" <revolution at jaedworks.com> wrote:

> At 12:51 PM +0900 2/12/04, Doug Lerner wrote:
>> I added a "Version History" item to the Help menu using the Menu Builder.
>> 
>> When I do this, the currently existing About menu item no longer shows up in
>> the OS X File menu.
>> 
>> If I delete the "Version History" item, it again shows up.
>> 
>> Any idea what is happening?
> 
> Are you adding the Version History item to the end of the Help menu?
> On Mac OS and OS X, Revolution deletes the last two items from the
> Help menu - it assumes the last two items are a separator line and
> the "About" item - so to add more items to the Help menu, you need to
> make sure the new items are added above this separator line.
> --

Thanks, Jeanne. That was it!

doug


From briany at qldlearning.com  Thu Feb 12 01:52:47 2004
From: briany at qldlearning.com (Brian Yennie)
Date: Thu, 12 Feb 2004 01:52:47 -0500
Subject: Styled text challenge...
In-Reply-To: <6C6C06AE-5D26-11D8-9DEE-000A9567A3E6@swcp.com>
Message-ID: <116ED792-5D28-11D8-9553-000393AA08D2@qldlearning.com>

The following all works for me:

## render some HTML in a field
set the htmlText of fld 1 to url "http://www.somsite.com"
## get the HTML source
put the htmlText of fld 1 into fld 2
## get the RTF equivalent source
put the rtfText of fld 1 into fld 3
## re-render as RTF in a different field
set the rtfText of fld 4 to fld 3

The conversion is not perfect, but I'm not sure what else is desired- 
the htmlText is not a browser, and converting from HTML->RTF will never 
be a lossless conversion as they are not equivalent formats.

- Brian

>>> I could still be mixed up on what you want.
>>
>> i grab an html page off the web, display it in a field
>> I also display the source and would like finaly to have the
>> html styled text to be outputed to a styled text field.


From xbury.cs at clearstream.com  Thu Feb 12 01:57:51 2004
From: xbury.cs at clearstream.com (xbury.cs at clearstream.com)
Date: Thu, 12 Feb 2004 07:57:51 +0100
Subject: Styled text challenge...
Message-ID: <OFC49C1A6D.7BB3A60B-ONC1256E38.0026112E-C1256E38.002641B8@deutsche-boerse.de>

I decided to go plain text instead of facing more bugs for a rather 
useless 
and unsupported feature...

but thanks... 
---------------------=---------------------
Xavier Bury
Clearstream Services
TNS NT LAN Server
ext 36465
Voice: +352 4656 43 6465
Fax: +352 4656 493 6465




Brian Yennie <briany at qldlearning.com>
Sent by: use-revolution-bounces at lists.runrev.com
12/02/04 07:52 AM
Please respond to How to use Revolution

 
        To:     How to use Revolution <use-revolution at lists.runrev.com>
        cc: 
        Subject:        Re: Styled text challenge...

.


The following all works for me:

## render some HTML in a field
set the htmlText of fld 1 to url "http://www.somsite.com"
## get the HTML source
put the htmlText of fld 1 into fld 2
## get the RTF equivalent source
put the rtfText of fld 1 into fld 3
## re-render as RTF in a different field
set the rtfText of fld 4 to fld 3

The conversion is not perfect, but I'm not sure what else is desired- 
the htmlText is not a browser, and converting from HTML->RTF will never 
be a lossless conversion as they are not equivalent formats.

- Brian

>>> I could still be mixed up on what you want.
>>
>> i grab an html page off the web, display it in a field
>> I also display the source and would like finaly to have the
>> html styled text to be outputed to a styled text field.

_______________________________________________
use-revolution mailing list
use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution




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From alex at mindlube.com  Thu Feb 12 02:09:59 2004
From: alex at mindlube.com (Alex Rice)
Date: Thu, 12 Feb 2004 00:09:59 -0700
Subject: OT: Village signing [was: RR as a browser plugin?]
In-Reply-To: <BC506014.4EFB%pixelbird@interisland.net>
References: <BC506014.4EFB%pixelbird@interisland.net>
Message-ID: <7818A78A-5D2A-11D8-BAB1-000393C4760A@mindlube.com>


On Feb 11, 2004, at 11:41 PM, Ken Norris wrote:
> Did you ever write a tutorial for learning it on the computer?

Not to butt in or anything: Sign Languages area *real* languages. Do 
you think you could learn German or Portuguese by watching some videos 
or a computer program? :-)

I had a linguistics prof. in college who came to lecture extremely 
excited one day because he had seen a performance of _Jabberwocky_ in 
ASL. I can't even to begin to imagine...

--
Alex Rice | Mindlube Software | http://mindlube.com


From alex at mindlube.com  Thu Feb 12 02:14:00 2004
From: alex at mindlube.com (Alex Rice)
Date: Thu, 12 Feb 2004 00:14:00 -0700
Subject: RR as a browser plugin?
In-Reply-To: <BC4FC45D.3D2D1%ambassador@fourthworld.com>
References: <BC4FC45D.3D2D1%ambassador@fourthworld.com>
Message-ID: <0817A61E-5D2B-11D8-BAB1-000393C4760A@mindlube.com>


On Feb 11, 2004, at 12:37 PM, Richard Gaskin wrote:
> Browser plugins offer no substanial benefit not already addressed by 
> using a
> standalone as a helper application.

I too am a fan of "web enabled standalone apps" as an alternative to 
plugins. And I have read and appreciated your article about it. But you 
are making quite a blanket statement there. Why be so quick to dismiss 
the browser plugin which could be a good thing for some Runrev 
developers, even if you aren't interested yourself?

A wide variety of browser plugins do exist and are beneficial for many 
organizations and businesses. Do a search for +GIS +"browser plugin". 
All kinds of plugins come up, most of which is foreign to me: SVG, WML, 
ExpressView, AlternaTIFF, GeoTIFF, DXF, MrSID, ACGM, Geo-DB, WxScope 
and on and on. You know there are organizations that need and pay for 
those browser plugins. Probably a lot of them could have been written 
with Runrev. Maybe the companies considered standalone apps, and 
decided in favor of browser plugins. There are all kinds of possible 
scenarios.

re: installed-base and walking over to the secretary's computer and 
your scenarios you were talking about: in larger companies with 
carefully tied down desktop and laptop configs, getting a browser 
plugin pre-installed is not a problem. Large IT departments ghost their 
disk images and roll-em out like a factory!

--
Alex Rice | Mindlube Software | http://mindlube.com


From dsc at swcp.com  Thu Feb 12 02:14:30 2004
From: dsc at swcp.com (Dar Scott)
Date: Thu, 12 Feb 2004 00:14:30 -0700
Subject: Styled text challenge...
In-Reply-To: <OFC49C1A6D.7BB3A60B-ONC1256E38.0026112E-C1256E38.002641B8@deutsche-boerse.de>
Message-ID: <1A0D7FC3-5D2B-11D8-9DEE-000A9567A3E6@swcp.com>


On Wednesday, February 11, 2004, at 11:57 PM, xbury.cs at clearstream.com 
wrote:

> I decided to go plain text instead of facing more bugs

I don't think you demonstrated any bugs.  That may be my fault; I don't 
think I followed all.

This may be a misunderstanding of htmlText.  If so, then maybe you and 
RunRev might share that blame.  The htmlText property is an alternate 
and equivalent representation of text with chunk properties.  This 
representation is html-like and being in the style of html is easier to 
use than some arbitrary language for many folks.  It allows you to grab 
both the text and the properties as one value.  However, it is not 
complete html.  It is not even a subset.  It is close enough that the 
closeness can be exploited in many ways.

When I was first using Revolution I complained that the representation 
of white space was all wrong.  (Whether I was right is another matter.) 
  However, when I realized that htmlText should not be considered html, 
I dropped that.

Often arbitrary html can be modified to be suitable for htmlText, but 
often it take some work.

I don't use rtfText, but I expect the situation is similar.

Dar Scott


From chipp at chipp.com  Thu Feb 12 02:17:53 2004
From: chipp at chipp.com (Chipp Walters)
Date: Thu, 12 Feb 2004 01:17:53 -0600
Subject: New altPlugin...
Message-ID: <PKEHJNDKHJJOBHKDGFHKKEMMCBAA.chipp@chipp.com>

I've uploaded a new altPlugin called altFindPut at:
http://www.altuit.com/webs/altuit2/altPluginDownload/Downloads.htm

>From the website:

"This plugin takes the hard work out of locating your 'put xx' into msg box
debug scripts.
Just click the button to load the script and process it. It will generate a
list of probable 'hits.' You can click the line number on the list and it
will locate the place in the script where the put is found. You can then
edit it and apply the changes.

You can use the UNDO button to undo your last script edit."

best,

Chipp


From alex at mindlube.com  Thu Feb 12 02:19:05 2004
From: alex at mindlube.com (Alex Rice)
Date: Thu, 12 Feb 2004 00:19:05 -0700
Subject: 10 bugs in 2 minutes time!
In-Reply-To: <ENEALNOCJBOOOHHCCEKNIEPJFMAA.b.xavier@internet.lu>
References: <ENEALNOCJBOOOHHCCEKNIEPJFMAA.b.xavier@internet.lu>
Message-ID: <BDF59653-5D2B-11D8-BAB1-000393C4760A@mindlube.com>


On Feb 11, 2004, at 11:32 PM, MisterX wrote:
> I never had this many bugs in MC or HC or any other IDE in 20 years
> development experience...
>
> I dont think it's just me...

No, it's not just you. Patience is all.

Honestly entering 10 bugs into bugzilla would take not significantly 
longer then it took you to compose the complaint to this list.

Not sure what you mean about "bugzilla who will surely not record my 
bugs again."
Bugzilla itself has some bugs and quirks, but many of us are using it 
on a regular basis. Post what problems you are seeing with bugzilla 
then maybe we can get you back on track.

--
Alex Rice | Mindlube Software | http://mindlube.com


From ambassador at fourthworld.com  Thu Feb 12 02:27:18 2004
From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin)
Date: Wed, 11 Feb 2004 23:27:18 -0800
Subject: RR as a browser plugin?
In-Reply-To: <0817A61E-5D2B-11D8-BAB1-000393C4760A@mindlube.com>
Message-ID: <BC506AD6.3D37A%ambassador@fourthworld.com>

Alex Rice wrote:

> standalone as a helper application.
> 
> I too am a fan of "web enabled standalone apps" as an alternative to
> plugins. And I have read and appreciated your article about it. But you
> are making quite a blanket statement there. Why be so quick to dismiss
> the browser plugin which could be a good thing for some Runrev
> developers, even if you aren't interested yourself?

Because unless it's bundled it will still need to be downloaded, and if one
needs to download and install something it could just as well provide
multiple window, menus, and other options not possible in a browser.

Look at the number of plugins in '98, and how few are left today.  Bundling
is the advantage of plugins.  Without bundling, an engine's an engine....

-- 
 Richard Gaskin 
 Fourth World Media Corporation
 Developer of WebMerge: Publish any database on any Web site
 ___________________________________________________________
 Ambassador at FourthWorld.com       http://www.FourthWorld.com


From erikhans08 at yahoo.com  Thu Feb 12 02:32:54 2004
From: erikhans08 at yahoo.com (erik hansen)
Date: Wed, 11 Feb 2004 23:32:54 -0800 (PST)
Subject: English-like communications adventure with good man UDI
In-Reply-To: <p06010211bc50b1feb409@[128.250.86.175]>
Message-ID: <20040212073254.39767.qmail@web61110.mail.yahoo.com>

>is the code in the code in MakeSMF.rev
proprietary?

Sorry, I didn't understand a meaning well.
I want you to say by different expression again.

A thing of specification of note-string(Cq Eq..)
is one part of HyperTalk.
I expanded it originally.
I have not seen it it being used besides
HyperCard.

All the rights of a script code 
of makeSMF abandon it.
You remodel it to like it and can use it.
==============================
help!
i am trying to communicate to UDI that
his stacks (downloaded from RunRev.com)
are dehilited in my "Open Stack..."
place. this is in the development IDE(?).

how do you distinguish a
standalone/distribution stack
from a "normal" stack?

if a person is willing to share the code,
then why make it a standalone?

thanks, Erik

=====
erik at erikhansen.org    http://www.erikhansen.org

__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Finance: Get your refund fast by filing online.
http://taxes.yahoo.com/filing.html

From dsc at swcp.com  Thu Feb 12 02:34:52 2004
From: dsc at swcp.com (Dar Scott)
Date: Thu, 12 Feb 2004 00:34:52 -0700
Subject: 10 bugs in 2 minutes time!
In-Reply-To: <BDF59653-5D2B-11D8-BAB1-000393C4760A@mindlube.com>
Message-ID: <F21B1A00-5D2D-11D8-9DEE-000A9567A3E6@swcp.com>


On Thursday, February 12, 2004, at 12:19 AM, Alex Rice wrote:

> Bugzilla itself has some bugs and quirks, but many of us are using it 
> on a regular basis. Post what problems you are seeing with bugzilla 
> then maybe we can get you back on track.

Or chat about problems here.  Perhaps those are not really bugs, but 
features you will come to cherish.

Dar Scott


From alex at mindlube.com  Thu Feb 12 02:37:42 2004
From: alex at mindlube.com (Alex Rice)
Date: Thu, 12 Feb 2004 00:37:42 -0700
Subject: RR as a browser plugin?
In-Reply-To: <BC506AD6.3D37A%ambassador@fourthworld.com>
References: <BC506AD6.3D37A%ambassador@fourthworld.com>
Message-ID: <57881D14-5D2E-11D8-BAB1-000393C4760A@mindlube.com>


On Feb 12, 2004, at 12:27 AM, Richard Gaskin wrote:

> Because unless it's bundled it will still need to be downloaded, and 
> if one
> needs to download and install something it could just as well provide
> multiple window, menus, and other options not possible in a browser.
>
> Look at the number of plugins in '98, and how few are left today.  
> Bundling
> is the advantage of plugins.  Without bundling, an engine's an 
> engine....

It's not such a black and white issue.

You are talking about average-joe-consumer out there with Windows 98, 
and generalizing that to say there is no advantage to browser plugins, 
period. I disagree.

Look at IT departments that ghost their systems for rollouts. No 
downloading of plugins required. In fact downloading may not be 
allowed. In fact- public www access may not even be allowed! 
Corporations are strange places.

--
Alex Rice | Mindlube Software | http://mindlube.com


From xbury.cs at clearstream.com  Thu Feb 12 02:42:26 2004
From: xbury.cs at clearstream.com (xbury.cs at clearstream.com)
Date: Thu, 12 Feb 2004 08:42:26 +0100
Subject: 10 bugs in 2 minutes time!
Message-ID: <OFB1235161.6F838759-ONC1256E38.0029A264-C1256E38.002A5664@deutsche-boerse.de>

- It does take more time per bug.
- Last time I spend 2 hours entering a nice description for just 3 bugs 
and all got lost. 

NEVER AGAIN. 

Im doing this on my personal time and money investment and it's not worth 
my time
or ROI. I know this is not the right thing to do but Im wasting enough 
time working
around bugs that shouldn't be there. When these get solved, and the IDE is 
smooth
I'll consider it... 

As for our enterprise license, I dare not put RR in our production 
network! It's that bad!
There would be twice as many issues which I dont have in MC. It's been 
running so 
smoothly for the past 2 years that Scott has heard from me once (partly 
thanks to my 
own script editor)! ;)

I feel like everyday is a battle to get things working in RR... I like the 
features but
I dont appreciate it's quality.

On 12/02/2004 08:19:05 AM use-revolution-bounces wrote:
>On Feb 11, 2004, at 11:32 PM, MisterX wrote:
>> I never had this many bugs in MC or HC or any other IDE in 20 years
>> development experience...
>>
>> I dont think it's just me...
>
>No, it's not just you. Patience is all.
>
>Honestly entering 10 bugs into bugzilla would take not significantly
>longer then it took you to compose the complaint to this list.
>
>Not sure what you mean about "bugzilla who will surely not record my
>bugs again."
>Bugzilla itself has some bugs and quirks, but many of us are using it
>on a regular basis. Post what problems you are seeing with bugzilla
>then maybe we can get you back on track.

Visit us at http://www.clearstream.com
                                                          
IMPORTANT MESSAGE

Internet communications are not secure and therefore Clearstream International does not accept legal responsibility for the contents of this message.

The information contained in this e-mail is confidential and may be legally privileged. It is intended solely for the addressee. If you are not the intended recipient, any disclosure, copying, distribution or any action taken or omitted to be taken in reliance on it, is prohibited and may be unlawful. Any views expressed in this e-mail are those of the individual sender, except where the sender specifically states them to be the views of Clearstream International or of any of its affiliates or subsidiaries.

END OF DISCLAIMER

From alex at mindlube.com  Thu Feb 12 02:48:20 2004
From: alex at mindlube.com (Alex Rice)
Date: Thu, 12 Feb 2004 00:48:20 -0700
Subject: 10 bugs in 2 minutes time!
In-Reply-To: <OFB1235161.6F838759-ONC1256E38.0029A264-C1256E38.002A5664@deutsche-boerse.de>
References: <OFB1235161.6F838759-ONC1256E38.0029A264-C1256E38.002A5664@deutsche-boerse.de>
Message-ID: <D405C483-5D2F-11D8-BAB1-000393C4760A@mindlube.com>


On Feb 12, 2004, at 12:42 AM, xbury.cs at clearstream.com wrote:

> - It does take more time per bug.
> - Last time I spend 2 hours entering a nice description for just 3 bugs
> and all got lost.

Maybe they were not lost. Read this post
<http://lists.runrev.com/pipermail/use-revolution/2003-December/ 
026820.html>

Which, BTW, I don't think runrev ever responded to. Ken, do you know if  
this that particular bugzilla problem is fixed in the current setup?

--
Alex Rice | Mindlube Software | http://mindlube.com


From xbury.cs at clearstream.com  Thu Feb 12 02:56:34 2004
From: xbury.cs at clearstream.com (xbury.cs at clearstream.com)
Date: Thu, 12 Feb 2004 08:56:34 +0100
Subject: 10 bugs in 2 minutes time!
Message-ID: <OF6E1FBDF9.F1F12CEE-ONC1256E38.002A650F-C1256E38.002BA1D7@deutsche-boerse.de>

On 12/02/2004 08:34:52 AM use-revolution-bounces wrote:
>On Thursday, February 12, 2004, at 12:19 AM, Alex Rice wrote:
>
>> Bugzilla itself has some bugs and quirks, but many of us are using it
>> on a regular basis. Post what problems you are seeing with bugzilla
>> then maybe we can get you back on track.
>
>Or chat about problems here.  Perhaps those are not really bugs, but
>features you will come to cherish.

I believe im advanced enough to know what is a bug and what is a feature.

But just this geometry manager bug that resized EVERYTHING out of bounds
when I zoomed my stack is enough to make me want to delete RR and use MC. 
I dont need these setbacks at the moment. Cherish something that changes 
the
sizes of your groups to dimentions that are not even those of the zoomed 
stack?

I have a 1260 X 1024 screen, the stack max height and max width are 2^16
I click on the zoom box and my stack is now 87,167,1146,830! W2K or NT4.

Are all my fields and group resized correctly? NOT. I going to have to 
resize and
reset all geometry again... 

Just not cherishable...

So if you've also wasted time with bugzilla to see nothing saved, you 
understand why
im not happy...

>Dar Scott
>
>_______________________________________________
>use-revolution mailing list
>use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
>http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolutionI


Visit us at http://www.clearstream.com
                                                          
IMPORTANT MESSAGE

Internet communications are not secure and therefore Clearstream International does not accept legal responsibility for the contents of this message.

The information contained in this e-mail is confidential and may be legally privileged. It is intended solely for the addressee. If you are not the intended recipient, any disclosure, copying, distribution or any action taken or omitted to be taken in reliance on it, is prohibited and may be unlawful. Any views expressed in this e-mail are those of the individual sender, except where the sender specifically states them to be the views of Clearstream International or of any of its affiliates or subsidiaries.

END OF DISCLAIMER

From alex at mindlube.com  Thu Feb 12 02:58:59 2004
From: alex at mindlube.com (Alex Rice)
Date: Thu, 12 Feb 2004 00:58:59 -0700
Subject: RR as a browser plugin?
In-Reply-To: <12151975-5CEF-11D8-9DEE-000A9567A3E6@swcp.com>
References: <12151975-5CEF-11D8-9DEE-000A9567A3E6@swcp.com>
Message-ID: <505B1A52-5D31-11D8-BAB1-000393C4760A@mindlube.com>


On Feb 11, 2004, at 5:04 PM, Dar Scott wrote:

>
> What does it take to turn an app into a helper app?  I have never made 
> a browser plugin.

Helper apps are different from browser plugins.

A Helper App is just a browser preference saying "when downloading this 
file type or MIME type, launch it with this app on my system."

A Plugin is a shared-library (or something) that the web browser loads, 
put it in a sandbox, and gives it access to graphics and gui events in 
it's area of the window. Java, Flash, and Quicktime are the browser 
plugins that Safari comes preinstalled with.

Unfortunately each browser has it's a different plugin API so it would 
be lots of work to make one that runs most browsers (IE, Netscape, 
Safari, etc).

--
Alex Rice | Mindlube Software | http://mindlube.com


From briany at qldlearning.com  Thu Feb 12 03:01:13 2004
From: briany at qldlearning.com (Brian Yennie)
Date: Thu, 12 Feb 2004 03:01:13 -0500
Subject: Styled text challenge...
In-Reply-To: <OFC49C1A6D.7BB3A60B-ONC1256E38.0026112E-C1256E38.002641B8@deutsche-boerse.de>
Message-ID: <A0445A82-5D31-11D8-9553-000393AA08D2@qldlearning.com>

Xavier,

I really don't want to get into a love/hate war over Rev, but you're 
baiting pretty badly with your last couple of posts.

Calling htmlText and rtfText "useless" and "unsupported", running off 
bugs and boldly stating that you don't have time to put them in 
Bugzilla... these sorts of things don't tend to get you heard by the 
people at Rev that could actually help you.

If your project isn't worth making Bugzilla reports for (and I have no 
idea how it would 3 hours to report your list), then why would it be 
worth it to Rev to spend their time digging them out of this list, 
tracking them down, and fixing them to support you?

You first started off by posting a htmlText/ rtfText snippet which was 
simply incorrect (which is fine, but when you are flaming Rev over 
bugs...):

set the RTFText of fld "text" to the HTMLText of fld "html"

Which wasn't working, because you were setting the RTFText property to 
HTML source. What you probably wanted was:

set the RTFText of fld "text" to the RTFText of fld "html"

Now for your bugs...


On Thursday, February 12, 2004, at 01:32 AM, MisterX wrote:

> - debugging - the script editor adds a few dozen lines to the end of my
> script - you need to add a debug breakpoint, go in debug mode, abort, 
> edit a
> change with a non-error that is reported as an error and voila...

Blank lines? If so, are they actually in the script property of your 
object, or are they just stuck in the script editor?
Does it cause any harm?

What do you mean by a "non-error that is reported as an error"?

> - debug breakpoint bar doesn't scroll as the script field - you end up
> debugging not where you clicked! (This is the lack of synch scrolling 
> via
> mouse scroll in the breakpoint field which I've mentioned on previous
> occasions.)

So the bug is that breakpoints don't scroll with the mouse under 
certain mouse conditions?
I couldn't reproduce this, do you need a mouse scroll wheel or 
something special? Where do I have to click / drag?


> - Zooming a window with the zoom box doesn't respect the geometry 
> manager
> ($)@%(*@%)(@%*@)(*I have to resize all the fields, groups AGAIN - What 
> the
> F***?) - This made my day already - one more day to release a stupid 
> Farging
> stack!!!

 From what I can see here, geometry just doesn't work with groups. Turn 
off the group geometry and work with the inner objects individually, 
and the group resizes nicely with them to fit.

> - Zooming a window with the zoom button doesn't zoom it all the way to 
> the
> window rect (props max height and width = 2^16...)

I'm not sure of the HIG here, but it looks to me like it zooms back and 
forth between the last two sizes that the stack has been set to....?

> - you can't resize a zoomed stack thereafter without using the zoom 
> box --
> note the window is NOT full-screen-size (props)

I don't see this. I can still drag out a new size or use the zoom box.

> - Geometry manager doesn't seem to respect the scaling offsets - I 
> assume it
> uses a percentage and not the border offsets - unreliable if you 
> offset just
> one or two pixels off another object.

It's working fine for me with several objects 1 or 2 pixels apart, 
stretching to 1000 pixels and back to 200 or so.
Can you give a reproducible example? What geometry settings did you 
give to your objects?

> - Group a number of objects. Show a field that's supposed to be above 
> them,
> select the field, try to send it above the group with the appropriate 
> button
> in the "Size and position" props and it doesn't work. You have to type 
> a
> high number in the position to make it work

Confirmed. I tested and this only happens if the top-most object is in 
a group. If you watch carefully, it initially sets the layer to the 
appropriate value, and then flashes back to a smaller number. So 
whatever is limiting the maximum value somewhere in that script seems 
to have a bug. It does work to hit the "Move forward" button a few 
times, although I admit that would be tiresome with a lot of controls. 
For now a workaround would be to keep a non-grouped control on top, or 
type as you have been.

> - Making an object the same size as another via the props "Align 
> objects"
> and assuming that object as a geometry scale link to the window will 
> make
> the geometry of that object no work! Objects are in a group... You 
> have to
> resize the object manually for the geo mgr to work ok. The more damned 
> you
> are if you groupped them...

Confirmed. It looks to me like Rev normally catches the object move and 
updates the geometry. When the align objects button is used, it's not 
updating the geometry. Try this: use the align button, and then 
manually nudge the moved object(s) one over and one back. Now things 
work.

Bet they could fix it in two minutes- it just needs to fire off 
whatever message the geometry normally catches when you move an object. 
I'd report it.

You could probably fire a moveControl message to Rev and it would work 
properly.

> - a field in a grp, if you resize the object gets clipped, but if you 
> move
> it it doesn't - just more work either way...

I see this. One workaround is to ungroup and re-group. Not great, I 
admit.

> - Close a stack with a script window left open - you get a dialog with
> "close" or "Close and copy" the script window. Nothing is in the 
> clipboard
> if you choose close and copy

OK.

> This the most stupid stack and the one that's given me the most 
> trouble DUE
> TO BUGS or non working features.

Then I presume the stack isn't that important too you. This isn't very 
compelling if I were working at Rev, to fix things that have only 
affected "the most stupid stack". But I don't think you really mean 
that.

> No, I wont spend 3 hours entering this in bugzilla who will surely not
> record my bugs again.

Then I hope you won't complain when RunRev doesn't fix them.

> I never had this many bugs in MC or HC or any other IDE in 20 years
> development experience...

Then you're either lucky or haven't used many IDEs with comparable 
number of features. But it doesn't matter. If all of the other IDEs are 
much better, feel free... you can easily still use the MetaCard IDE but 
you won't have to worry about having any geometry manager at all, or 
align objects.

> I dont think it's just me...

That sees some bugs? No, not just you. But your approach leaves me 
little surprise that your previous reports weren't top priorities.

- Brian


From kray at sonsothunder.com  Thu Feb 12 03:05:19 2004
From: kray at sonsothunder.com (Ken Ray)
Date: Thu, 12 Feb 2004 02:05:19 -0600
Subject: 10 bugs in 2 minutes time!
In-Reply-To: <D405C483-5D2F-11D8-BAB1-000393C4760A@mindlube.com>
Message-ID: <051701c3f13e$f8cdf760$6601a8c0@LightningFlash>


> > Maybe they were not lost. Read this post 
> > <http://lists.runrev.com/pipermail/use-revolution/2003-Decembe
> > r/026820.html>
> 
> Which, BTW, I don't think runrev ever responded to. Ken, do you 
> know if this that particular bugzilla problem is fixed in the 
> current setup?

No, it is the same, Alex. My Bugs only returns NEW, ASSIGNED or REOPENED
bugs. This is something we ought to do for the next update of Bugzilla,
though, and something I can easily add to RevZilla (which I need to
update to accommodate the new status and resolutions).

Ken Ray
Sons of Thunder Software
Email: kray at sonsothunder.com
Web Site: http://www.sonsothunder.com/ 



From alex at mindlube.com  Thu Feb 12 03:15:36 2004
From: alex at mindlube.com (Alex Rice)
Date: Thu, 12 Feb 2004 01:15:36 -0700
Subject: OT: Village signing [was: RR as a browser plugin?]
In-Reply-To: <BC506014.4EFB%pixelbird@interisland.net>
References: <BC506014.4EFB%pixelbird@interisland.net>
Message-ID: <A2F6A30C-5D33-11D8-BAB1-000393C4760A@mindlube.com>


On Feb 11, 2004, at 11:41 PM, Ken Norris wrote:

> I never knew that. I've been wanting to learn at least AMSLAN for a 
> long
> time, but there are no teachers or solid learning sources on this 
> island, no
> courses available.

Ken- sorry I shouldn't judge your circumstances. If you need a computer 
tutor you need a computer tutor!

--
Alex Rice | Mindlube Software | http://mindlube.com


From briany at qldlearning.com  Thu Feb 12 03:14:54 2004
From: briany at qldlearning.com (Brian Yennie)
Date: Thu, 12 Feb 2004 03:14:54 -0500
Subject: 10 bugs in 2 minutes time!
In-Reply-To: <OFB1235161.6F838759-ONC1256E38.0029A264-C1256E38.002A5664@deutsche-boerse.de>
Message-ID: <89D6AEF4-5D33-11D8-9553-000393AA08D2@qldlearning.com>

> - It does take more time per bug.
> - Last time I spend 2 hours entering a nice description for just 3 bugs
> and all got lost.

I spend that much time posting to this list every week. I'm sorry you 
lost 2 hours, but you did it as part of the process of getting your 
individual bug reports submitted. Not such a bad deal.

> NEVER AGAIN.
>
> Im doing this on my personal time and money investment and it's not 
> worth
> my time
> or ROI. I know this is not the right thing to do but Im wasting enough
> time working
> around bugs that shouldn't be there. When these get solved, and the 
> IDE is
> smooth
> I'll consider it...

Then you should have evaluated the latest version of Rev before 
choosing it for a valuable project. It is not always wise to use the 
latest version of everything if your money is on the line. If you are 
so certain that the old Metacard IDE is better, use it.

I sympathize with wasting time on your own penny. But in a community 
where many people spend hours every week contributing and helping and 
bug hunting, to sound off about your 2 hours in BugZilla and your 1 day 
slippage in releasing a stack, it rings very hollow with me. I'm sure 
in your Supercard and HC days, you lost a day somewhere when your 
stacks got corrupted, for example. Rev ain't perfect, but you can't 
shake a stick at it's productivity just because you found some geometry 
bugs.

> As for our enterprise license, I dare not put RR in our production
> network! It's that bad!

Because the IDE has bugs? The engine is identical to MetaCard's.
If geometry manager is your headache, maybe it's not ready for your 
needs. And maybe there are more workarounds. And maybe the bugs would 
be fixed by now if you hadn't been too stubborn to re-enter them in 
BugZilla a long time ago.

> There would be twice as many issues which I dont have in MC. It's been
> running so
> smoothly for the past 2 years that Scott has heard from me once (partly
> thanks to my
> own script editor)! ;)

Then why don't you either stick with what was working, or actually help 
make Rev better in a constructive fashion?

> I feel like everyday is a battle to get things working in RR... I like 
> the
> features but
> I dont appreciate it's quality.

Then join the process of helping improve it. That's a pretty unique 
empowerment that you won't find with many major tools.
If you don't have time to contribute to the community, why should it 
jump to support you above and beyond others?

- Brian


From ambassador at fourthworld.com  Thu Feb 12 03:18:53 2004
From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin)
Date: Thu, 12 Feb 2004 00:18:53 -0800
Subject: RR as a browser plugin?
In-Reply-To: <57881D14-5D2E-11D8-BAB1-000393C4760A@mindlube.com>
Message-ID: <BC5076ED.3D386%ambassador@fourthworld.com>

Alex Rice wrote:

> On Feb 12, 2004, at 12:27 AM, Richard Gaskin wrote:
> 
>> Because unless it's bundled it will still need to be downloaded, and
>> if one needs to download and install something it could just as well
>> provide multiple window, menus, and other options not possible in a
>> browser.
>> 
>> Look at the number of plugins in '98, and how few are left today.
>> Bundling is the advantage of plugins.  Without bundling, an engine's
>> an engine....
> 
> It's not such a black and white issue.

Nor is it theoretical.  SuperCard had a plugin.  Aside from some novelty use
it was never popular even at sites with a heavy SC install.  Like most
companies that have ever made a plugin, they don't bother anymore.

> You are talking about average-joe-consumer out there with Windows 98,
> and generalizing that to say there is no advantage to browser plugins,
> period. I disagree.

You have the sum of your experience which leads to your opinions,  I have
mine.  Disagreement from time to time is a healthy indicator of active
minds.

> Look at IT departments that ghost their systems for rollouts. No
> downloading of plugins required. In fact downloading may not be
> allowed. In fact- public www access may not even be allowed!
> Corporations are strange places.

Indeed, especially those whose IT department can ghost a browser
installation yet not be able to include a helper app with it. ;)

I never said a plugin was completely useless.  I only said that it offers no
significant advantage over what can be done right now.  Even if a plugin
could somehow do everything a helper app can, the helper app still has one
advantage to solving real-world problems today:  it exists.

-- 
 Richard Gaskin 
 Fourth World Media Corporation
 ___________________________________________________________
 Ambassador at FourthWorld.com       http://www.FourthWorld.com


From ambassador at fourthworld.com  Thu Feb 12 03:24:39 2004
From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin)
Date: Thu, 12 Feb 2004 00:24:39 -0800
Subject: 10 bugs in 2 minutes time!
In-Reply-To: <OF6E1FBDF9.F1F12CEE-ONC1256E38.002A650F-C1256E38.002BA1D7@deutsche-boerse.de>
Message-ID: <BC507847.3D386%ambassador@fourthworld.com>

xbury.cs at clearstream.com wrote:

> Are all my fields and group resized correctly? NOT. I going to have to
> resize and reset all geometry again...

If the GM annoys, choosing never to be annoyed again is an option that takes
only one line per resized control.

The resizeStack message is a powerful thing, well worth working with
directly.  It gives you total control over layout with no ambiguity and less
overhead.

-- 
 Richard Gaskin 
 Fourth World Media Corporation
 ___________________________________________________________
 Ambassador at FourthWorld.com       http://www.FourthWorld.com


From ambassador at fourthworld.com  Thu Feb 12 03:33:03 2004
From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin)
Date: Thu, 12 Feb 2004 00:33:03 -0800
Subject: 10 bugs in 2 minutes time!
In-Reply-To: <OFB1235161.6F838759-ONC1256E38.0029A264-C1256E38.002A5664@deutsche-boerse.de>
Message-ID: <BC507A3F.3D38E%ambassador@fourthworld.com>

xbury.cs at clearstream.com wrote:

> There would be twice as many issues which I dont have in MC. It's been
> running so smoothly for the past 2 years that Scott has heard from me
> once (partly thanks to my own script editor)! ;)

I don't use much of either IDE.  MC was unattractive and limited, so like
you I wrote a lot of my own tools.  When Rev came along it had more going on
between the VM and me than I prefer, so I just kept using my stuff.

So that's the part I don't get:  the VM is powerful enough to support three
IDEs and an unknown number of additional tools folks have crafted for
themselves.  We can pick and choose the combinations we prefer, so why do
you choose combinations you do not prefer?

-- 
 Richard Gaskin 
 Fourth World Media Corporation
 ___________________________________________________________
 Ambassador at FourthWorld.com       http://www.FourthWorld.com


From mwieder at ahsoftware.net  Thu Feb 12 03:37:33 2004
From: mwieder at ahsoftware.net (Mark Wieder)
Date: Thu, 12 Feb 2004 00:37:33 -0800
Subject: OT: Village signing [was: RR as a browser plugin?]
In-Reply-To: <402ADFC5.5020102@hyperactivesw.com>
References: <109.2c87ab6e.2d5c1a9f@aol.com>
	<402ADFC5.5020102@hyperactivesw.com>
Message-ID: <7411435042.20040212003733@ahsoftware.net>

Jacque-

Wednesday, February 11, 2004, 6:07:01 PM, you wrote:

JLG> There is really no legitimate sign for that. I chose to use a gradually
JLG> drooping index finger. The entire audience, both hearing and deaf, never

I've always found one of the joys of ASL to be that it's not a
literally verbatim translation. For example, the sign for coffee
conveys a whole context of nuances that no single word in any written
or spoken language could. That drooping index finger was a brilliant
touch... er... well, there's no way out of that pun, is there?

-- 
-Mark Wieder
 mwieder at ahsoftware.net


From xbury.cs at clearstream.com  Thu Feb 12 03:48:51 2004
From: xbury.cs at clearstream.com (xbury.cs at clearstream.com)
Date: Thu, 12 Feb 2004 09:48:51 +0100
Subject: 10 bugs in 2 minutes time!
Message-ID: <OFF08B3776.A8DA0656-ONC1256E38.00301905-C1256E38.00306B47@deutsche-boerse.de>

On 12/02/2004 09:24:39 AM use-revolution-bounces wrote:
>xbury.cs at clearstream.com wrote:
>
>> Are all my fields and group resized correctly? NOT. I going to have to
>> resize and reset all geometry again...
>
>If the GM annoys, choosing never to be annoyed again is an option that 
takes
>only one line per resized control.
>
>The resizeStack message is a powerful thing, well worth working with
>directly.  It gives you total control over layout with no ambiguity and 
less
>overhead.

True, but it's a nice feature that I would have hoped was really solid. 

You know how much time it takes to write those resizestack routines
and how much time each new object takes to add... 

GM is nice. Just dont hit the zoom box button...
BTW duplicating objects also creates problems of its own... 
Using the Align Objects palette will really screw things up...

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From xbury.cs at clearstream.com  Thu Feb 12 03:49:46 2004
From: xbury.cs at clearstream.com (xbury.cs at clearstream.com)
Date: Thu, 12 Feb 2004 09:49:46 +0100
Subject: 10 bugs in 2 minutes time!
Message-ID: <OF3C62CB3B.E9DFFAE7-ONC1256E38.002E31B9-C1256E38.003080C6@deutsche-boerse.de>

Brian, 

>Then you should have evaluated the latest version of Rev before
>choosing it for a valuable project. It is not always wise to use the
>latest version of everything if your money is on the line. If you are
>so certain that the old Metacard IDE is better, use it.

I did that. That why I decided not to upgrade to RR at work. 
This is not a valuable project, it's just a plain simple vanila browser.
Naturally, since I needed a home license the only choice I had was 
RR Studio.

>I sympathize with wasting time on your own penny. But in a community
>where many people spend hours every week contributing and helping and
>bug hunting, to sound off about your 2 hours in BugZilla and your 1 day
>slippage in releasing a stack, it rings very hollow with me. I'm sure
>in your Supercard and HC days, you lost a day somewhere when your
>stacks got corrupted, for example. Rev ain't perfect, but you can't
>shake a stick at it's productivity just because you found some geometry
>bugs.

If I had this geometry bug hit my Migration tool, it would take at least 
one whole 
week to resize everything...
But I have backups, I have mirrors, I have RDFs, I have every fool proof 
feature built-in in production at work. MC is for work, RR is for fun 
IMOHO.
Dont take me wrong. RR is capable but with the GUI bugs, I'd rather not
try. 

I've seen how RR changes scripts without asking, the debugger doesn't 
update variable watcher values, and that's way too much already...

>> As for our enterprise license, I dare not put RR in our production
>> network! It's that bad!
>
>Because the IDE has bugs? The engine is identical to MetaCard's.
>If geometry manager is your headache, maybe it's not ready for your
>needs. And maybe there are more workarounds. And maybe the bugs would
>be fixed by now if you hadn't been too stubborn to re-enter them in
>BugZilla a long time ago.

You can't negate that the IDE doesn't have bugs! ;)
But I dont see bugs in MC2.51, I just see them in RR... Im mean the IDE's 
GUI though.

Im not stubborn regarding bug entry. Im squeezed for my personal time and
research. If this was for work, I wouldn't mind taking my sweet time to 
entry
those bugs in a clear description for all it's worth. Scott knows this.

>> There would be twice as many issues which I dont have in MC. It's been
>> running so
>> smoothly for the past 2 years that Scott has heard from me once (partly
>> thanks to my
>> own script editor)! ;)
>
>Then why don't you either stick with what was working, or actually help
>make Rev better in a constructive fashion?

replacetext was working in MC, it doesn't in RR... It does in the msg not 
in the scripts!
Resizing a group in MC works, not in RR... Is this for real? And the 
geometry mgr is
also acting up on this group with the zoom feature...

I'd like to help, seriously, but it's not on my private time for a stupid 
stack that it's gonna
happen. 

>> I feel like everyday is a battle to get things working in RR... I like
>> the
>> features but
>> I dont appreciate it's quality.
>
>Then join the process of helping improve it. That's a pretty unique
>empowerment that you won't find with many major tools.
>If you don't have time to contribute to the community, why should it
>jump to support you above and beyond others?

Like I said, I bought the studio for fun and personal development. 
I do want to improve it (like for a super script editor and adding XOS
objects to the environment (save another 90% time development)
 but there is little motivation or need for this right now. So be it...



>- Brian
>
>_______________________________________________
>use-revolution mailing list
>use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
>http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution


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From xbury.cs at clearstream.com  Thu Feb 12 03:51:58 2004
From: xbury.cs at clearstream.com (xbury.cs at clearstream.com)
Date: Thu, 12 Feb 2004 09:51:58 +0100
Subject: 10 bugs in 2 minutes time!
Message-ID: <OFEEA78BFD.88A10498-ONC1256E38.00309236-C1256E38.0030B45A@deutsche-boerse.de>

Richard,

I use the license I bought... I couldn't afford the MC license
for personal use.
The only choice I had was the RR studio. I still use the MC
at work for obvious reasons and without complains.
---------------------=---------------------
Xavier Bury
Clearstream Services
TNS NT LAN Server
ext 36465
Voice: +352 4656 43 6465
Fax: +352 4656 493 6465




Richard Gaskin <ambassador at fourthworld.com>
Sent by: use-revolution-bounces at lists.runrev.com
12/02/04 09:33 AM
Please respond to How to use Revolution

 
        To:     How to use Revolution <use-revolution at lists.runrev.com>
        cc: 
        Subject:        Re: 10 bugs in 2 minutes time!

.


xbury.cs at clearstream.com wrote:

> There would be twice as many issues which I dont have in MC. It's been
> running so smoothly for the past 2 years that Scott has heard from me
> once (partly thanks to my own script editor)! ;)

I don't use much of either IDE.  MC was unattractive and limited, so like
you I wrote a lot of my own tools.  When Rev came along it had more going 
on
between the VM and me than I prefer, so I just kept using my stuff.

So that's the part I don't get:  the VM is powerful enough to support 
three
IDEs and an unknown number of additional tools folks have crafted for
themselves.  We can pick and choose the combinations we prefer, so why do
you choose combinations you do not prefer?

-- 
 Richard Gaskin 
 Fourth World Media Corporation
 ___________________________________________________________
 Ambassador at FourthWorld.com       http://www.FourthWorld.com

_______________________________________________
use-revolution mailing list
use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution





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From briany at qldlearning.com  Thu Feb 12 03:54:07 2004
From: briany at qldlearning.com (Brian Yennie)
Date: Thu, 12 Feb 2004 03:54:07 -0500
Subject: 10 bugs in 2 minutes time!
In-Reply-To: <OF3C62CB3B.E9DFFAE7-ONC1256E38.002E31B9-C1256E38.003080C6@deutsche-boerse.de>
Message-ID: <042BBE08-5D39-11D8-9501-000393AA08D2@qldlearning.com>

Xavier,

> I did that. That why I decided not to upgrade to RR at work.
> This is not a valuable project, it's just a plain simple vanila 
> browser.
> Naturally, since I needed a home license the only choice I had was
> RR Studio.

I admit, this does change things a bit. To be fair, though, you did say 
that these bugs had delayed your release of a stack, and were a concern 
for your ROI. Those didn't sound like for-fun circumstances.

Alas, I'm very defensive of Rev when I feel criticism is less 
constructive, but I apologize if my posts crossed into flame territory: 
that was not my intention.

See my notes on the bugs, though- it looks to me like several of them 
are extremely fixable, even by hacking the IDE quickly while waiting.

- Brian


From chipp at chipp.com  Thu Feb 12 04:03:39 2004
From: chipp at chipp.com (Chipp Walters)
Date: Thu, 12 Feb 2004 03:03:39 -0600
Subject: 10 bugs in 2 minutes time!
In-Reply-To: <OF3C62CB3B.E9DFFAE7-ONC1256E38.002E31B9-C1256E38.003080C6@deutsche-boerse.de>
Message-ID: <PKEHJNDKHJJOBHKDGFHKCEPECBAA.chipp@chipp.com>

Xavier,

I, too, am sorry you're having so many problems. Couple points to note:

The Geometry Manager, while slick, has some 'getting used to' in using it.
I, like Richard, just use the resizeStack command. I feel the same about the
Animation palette.

The reason why when you expand a window it doesn't go full-screen is because
RR resets the windowBoudingRect to an area inside the IDE. You can of course
overide it by entering into the msg:

set the windowBoundingRect to the screenRect

The scrolling breakpoint dot is a known problem. Hopefully, the script
editor/debugger will be rewritten soon. There's talk about making it
separate windows again, though don't know what will be. Here may be a great
place you can contribute as you've spent quite some time in the script
editor yourself!

Check out:
http://www.altuit.com/webs/altuit2/altPluginCover/about.htm
for my altPlugins. It's a resizable toolbar which is easily added to. You
can add your own stacks and plugins to do lots of stuff the IDE doesn't do.

best,

Chipp


From chipp at chipp.com  Thu Feb 12 04:04:39 2004
From: chipp at chipp.com (Chipp Walters)
Date: Thu, 12 Feb 2004 03:04:39 -0600
Subject: 10 bugs in 2 minutes time!
In-Reply-To: <OFEEA78BFD.88A10498-ONC1256E38.00309236-C1256E38.0030B45A@deutsche-boerse.de>
Message-ID: <PKEHJNDKHJJOBHKDGFHKGEPECBAA.chipp@chipp.com>

Xavier,

You *can* use RR Studio with the MC IDE if you wish.

best,

Chipp

From rjb at rz.uni-potsdam.de  Thu Feb 12 03:53:16 2004
From: rjb at rz.uni-potsdam.de (Robert Brenstein)
Date: Thu, 12 Feb 2004 09:53:16 +0100
Subject: Andy's comments and positioning...
In-Reply-To: <BC505CFE.3D35A%ambassador@fourthworld.com>
References: <BC505CFE.3D35A%ambassador@fourthworld.com>
Message-ID: <a06020404bc50eebf54aa@[141.89.100.235]>

>Jeanne A. E. DeVoto wrote:
>
>>>  What is the advantage of inserting backscript as opposed to just
>>>  start using? Aside of course from the difference that I can insert
>>>  script of any object as a backscript.
>>
>>  That's pretty much it. In a plugin, the natural place for the
>>  openStack handler is in the stack script, and if you start using the
>>  plugin stack, you need to put a little extra logic into the openStack
>>  handler to make sure it doesn't run every time any stack is opened
>>  (because it's going to be in the message path, if you start using
>>  it). Putting the library code in a button instead sidesteps the whole
>>  issue.
>
>Alternatvely, for libraries you can put all UI-related stuff like openStack
>handlers in the card script, safely outside the message path of other
>stacks.
>
>--
>  Richard Gaskin

Agreed. I do it also for non-library stacks. Since openStack runs 
only when the first card is shown, the first card is the most natural 
place for it IMHO. At least for the code that is stack-specific. But 
otherwise, Jeanne's points are valid as they apply to other handlers 
(i.e resumestack).

Robert

From xbury.cs at clearstream.com  Thu Feb 12 04:12:17 2004
From: xbury.cs at clearstream.com (xbury.cs at clearstream.com)
Date: Thu, 12 Feb 2004 10:12:17 +0100
Subject: 10 bugs in 2 minutes time!
Message-ID: <OFC20AF1C2.071DC355-ONC1256E38.003155C4-C1256E38.00329037@deutsche-boerse.de>

On 12/02/2004 09:54:07 AM use-revolution-bounces wrote:
>Xavier,
>
>> I did that. That why I decided not to upgrade to RR at work.
>> This is not a valuable project, it's just a plain simple vanila
>> browser.
>> Naturally, since I needed a home license the only choice I had was
>> RR Studio.
>
>I admit, this does change things a bit. To be fair, though, you did say
>that these bugs had delayed your release of a stack, and were a concern
>for your ROI. Those didn't sound like for-fun circumstances.

two different issues. My ROI on RR are negative for the moment. 
My time is also quite short so that's why it's ultra hard for me to 
justify time 
to "try" to enter things in Bugzilla if there's a chance of loosing the 
work.
As far as this release, well, it's not crucial or important but Im tired 
of
encountering so many bugs in just one stupid stack. Many things
work fine. But some of the most basic features break and this is not
normal. 

>Alas, I'm very defensive of Rev when I feel criticism is less
>constructive, but I apologize if my posts crossed into flame territory:
>that was not my intention.

I get bad rap for my MC software at work everyday against which
i have not only to defend (and the mac stereotypes too) but it's not just
Mc or my software. Some people dont go looking in deeper than what's
in a GUI and think a CLI is better! I defend the IDE RR and MC each day!

>See my notes on the bugs, though- it looks to me like several of them
>are extremely fixable, even by hacking the IDE quickly while waiting.

I could rewrite the geometry manager if I had time to waste... I paid for 
an
IDE, it would be stupid to rewrite the wheel... I did that for the MC 
Script
editor and other than my personal use, I never got much demand. Im 
actually
considering getting out of computers but cars have the same problems and
so do sponsors ;)

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From stephenREVOLUTION at barncard.com  Thu Feb 12 04:24:24 2004
From: stephenREVOLUTION at barncard.com (Stephen Quinn Barncard)
Date: Thu, 12 Feb 2004 01:24:24 -0800
Subject: Styled text challenge...
Message-ID: <p06020401bc50f5dbc438@[192.168.1.100]>

Xavier, the feature is neither useless nor unsupported. It just isn't 
a browser, it's 2 different ways to deal with styled text, as already 
explained by several people on this list.

>I decided to go plain text instead of facing more bugs for a rather
>useless
>and unsupported feature...
>
>but thanks...
>---------------------=---------------------
>Xavier Bury

From briany at qldlearning.com  Thu Feb 12 04:27:05 2004
From: briany at qldlearning.com (Brian Yennie)
Date: Thu, 12 Feb 2004 04:27:05 -0500
Subject: 10 bugs in 2 minutes time!
In-Reply-To: <OFC20AF1C2.071DC355-ONC1256E38.003155C4-C1256E38.00329037@deutsche-boerse.de>
Message-ID: <9F88AB92-5D3D-11D8-9501-000393AA08D2@qldlearning.com>

> I could rewrite the geometry manager if I had time to waste... I paid 
> for
> an
> IDE, it would be stupid to rewrite the wheel... I did that for the MC
> Script
> editor and other than my personal use, I never got much demand. Im
> actually
> considering getting out of computers but cars have the same problems 
> and
> so do sponsors ;)

I'm not refuting and problems, but I went back to your original lists 
and counted the responses you've gotten so far.

By my count, you had 7 geometry-related bugs.

I offered 3 workarounds, each of which is only a little nuisance, and 
none of which leave you with a runtime problem.
Chipp seemed to offer a solution to remedy your window zooming problems.
The remaining two or three look I couldn't reproduce and/or seemed to 
have possible workarounds that I couldn't test without first simulating 
the problem.

It's only been 3 hours since your post, and it seems we might get 
through all of the geometry problems with little lasting effects and a 
bunch of recipes to get them fixed. Let's keep truckin' and not just 
resign ourselves to completely scrapping it and never getting it fixed!

If we can get a recipe and a probable solution to all 7, I'd be happy 
to do the BugZilla piece myself.

- Brian


From xbury.cs at clearstream.com  Thu Feb 12 04:52:47 2004
From: xbury.cs at clearstream.com (xbury.cs at clearstream.com)
Date: Thu, 12 Feb 2004 10:52:47 +0100
Subject: 10 bugs in 2 minutes time! in brief....
Message-ID: <OFF30A45B7.59B4AD02-ONC1256E38.003529B7-C1256E38.00364582@deutsche-boerse.de>

Hello everyone 

I've cooled down from my morning meltdown and am 
mindmelting my zen modules into my logic/temper fuse box
to avoid this hassle and go forward.

I would like to apoligize for my temper and would also like to thank
everyone for defusing me... All your suggestions are not unimportant. 
They are part of the IDE's and its GUI's work in progress. 

It's true there's always a workaround. And as Intel's CEO Andy Grove
said, complacency is the enemy of progress (not his exact words).

But it shows how much depending on any feature can put you in 
a very hard and narrow box. RR is considerably more complex
than MC and surely any of us still using MC have made it equaly
as complex in our own environments. Bottom line is that any
feature can break another! 

One thing that is true though is that many of the pesky bugs could be
fixed in minutes.  Yes independently of the IDE hard-code engine.

One proposal would be for RR to deliver smaller-releases with 
bug fixes... The problem is that many of these bugs concern a 
substack here or there... That's why I was really happy with MC
and making incremental builds for the Script Editor. 

Could this be a solution?




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From briany at qldlearning.com  Thu Feb 12 04:58:02 2004
From: briany at qldlearning.com (Brian Yennie)
Date: Thu, 12 Feb 2004 04:58:02 -0500
Subject: Bug Fix Releases?
In-Reply-To: <OFF30A45B7.59B4AD02-ONC1256E38.003529B7-C1256E38.00364582@deutsche-boerse.de>
Message-ID: <F2554E6D-5D41-11D8-9501-000393AA08D2@qldlearning.com>

> One proposal would be for RR to deliver smaller-releases with
> bug fixes... The problem is that many of these bugs concern a
> substack here or there... That's why I was really happy with MC
> and making incremental builds for the Script Editor.
>
> Could this be a solution?

I'd second that. More "dot" versions might be happily accepted by a lot 
of users. Is there a major headache / reason against it for RunRev?

Of course, if we had a CVS system, they could allow anonymous access 
for those that needed bleeding-edge builds =).

- Brian


From xbury.cs at clearstream.com  Thu Feb 12 05:01:01 2004
From: xbury.cs at clearstream.com (xbury.cs at clearstream.com)
Date: Thu, 12 Feb 2004 11:01:01 +0100
Subject: 10 bugs in 2 minutes time!
Message-ID: <OFC2CC8353.A6F68259-ONC1256E38.003652D5-C1256E38.0037066C@deutsche-boerse.de>

Thanks Chipp!

shouldn't 
set the windowBoundingRect to the screenRect
be a default?

I'll check the altPlugin - sounds sweet...

Im still working on the script editor for RR but Im really strained for 
time...
And XOS is still in the works with some awesome features to come... 

If the day had 48 hours, I'd be happy... ;)

---------------------=---------------------
Xavier Bury





"Chipp Walters" <chipp at chipp.com>
Sent by: use-revolution-bounces at lists.runrev.com
12/02/04 10:03 AM
Please respond to How to use Revolution

 
        To:     "How to use Revolution" <use-revolution at lists.runrev.com>
        cc: 
        Subject:        RE: 10 bugs in 2 minutes time!

.


Xavier,

I, too, am sorry you're having so many problems. Couple points to note:

The Geometry Manager, while slick, has some 'getting used to' in using it.
I, like Richard, just use the resizeStack command. I feel the same about 
the
Animation palette.

The reason why when you expand a window it doesn't go full-screen is 
because
RR resets the windowBoudingRect to an area inside the IDE. You can of 
course
overide it by entering into the msg:

set the windowBoundingRect to the screenRect

The scrolling breakpoint dot is a known problem. Hopefully, the script
editor/debugger will be rewritten soon. There's talk about making it
separate windows again, though don't know what will be. Here may be a 
great
place you can contribute as you've spent quite some time in the script
editor yourself!

Check out:
http://www.altuit.com/webs/altuit2/altPluginCover/about.htm
for my altPlugins. It's a resizable toolbar which is easily added to. You
can add your own stacks and plugins to do lots of stuff the IDE doesn't 
do.

best,

Chipp

_______________________________________________
use-revolution mailing list
use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution





Visit us at http://www.clearstream.com
                                                          
IMPORTANT MESSAGE

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END OF DISCLAIMER

From janschenkel at yahoo.com  Thu Feb 12 05:23:35 2004
From: janschenkel at yahoo.com (Jan Schenkel)
Date: Thu, 12 Feb 2004 02:23:35 -0800 (PST)
Subject: English-like communications adventure with good man UDI
In-Reply-To: <20040212073254.39767.qmail@web61110.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <20040212102335.12396.qmail@web60504.mail.yahoo.com>

--- erik hansen <erikhans08 at yahoo.com> wrote:
> >is the code in the code in MakeSMF.rev
> proprietary?
> 
> Sorry, I didn't understand a meaning well.
> I want you to say by different expression again.
> 
> A thing of specification of note-string(Cq Eq..)
> is one part of HyperTalk.
> I expanded it originally.
> I have not seen it it being used besides
> HyperCard.
> 
> All the rights of a script code 
> of makeSMF abandon it.
> You remodel it to like it and can use it.
> ==============================
> help!
> i am trying to communicate to UDI that
> his stacks (downloaded from RunRev.com)
> are dehilited in my "Open Stack..."
> place. this is in the development IDE(?).
> 
> how do you distinguish a
> standalone/distribution stack
> from a "normal" stack?
> 
> if a person is willing to share the code,
> then why make it a standalone?
> 
> thanks, Erik
> 

Hi Erik,

I'm assuming you have a Mac, and that when you try to
open the makeSMF.rev stack, it is grayed out in the
Open dialog box, and you can't select it.

This is probably caused by a lack of Type and Creator
codes in the file (this happens when a file comes from
a PC)
- you can either drop the stack's icon onto the
Revolution icon _after_ you've started Revolution ;
Revolution should open it, and then you can save it so
that it remembers being a Revolution doc.
- or you can use Sarah Reichelt's droplet, which you
can download from the Rev Contributions section ;
direct link :
<http://www.runrev.com/revolution/downloads/developerdownloads/Rev%20droplet.sit>

And although I can't speak for UDI, I interpret his
reply as : I made this based on the way you play
sounds in HyperCard, and placed the source doe in the
public domain, so if you want to customise it, go
ahead.

Hope this helped,

Jan Schenkel.

=====
"As we grow older, we grow both wiser and more foolish at the same time."  (La Rochefoucauld)

__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Finance: Get your refund fast by filing online.
http://taxes.yahoo.com/filing.html

From richmond at mail.maclaunch.com  Thu Feb 12 04:37:45 2004
From: richmond at mail.maclaunch.com (Mathewson)
Date: Thu, 12 Feb 2004 04:37:45 -0500
Subject: Intelligent Agents......
Message-ID: <web-314539582@mail.maclaunch.com>

I am in the process of submitting a Master's proposal at
the University if Abertay with a view to doing research
into intelligent agents for teaching xTalk to
teachers......

I am at present looking for a copy of 'Eager', an IA
developed for HyperCard........

Richmond Mathewson

__________________________________________________
See Mathewson's software at:

http://members.maclaunch.com/richmond/default.html    and
http://www.runrev.com/Revolution1/developercentral/usercontributions.html
_______________________________________
---------------------------------------------------------------
Great Macintosh Products 
 The MacLaunch Store! http://www.maclaunch.com/cgi-launch/store/agora.cgi
---------------------------------------------------------------

From ttasovac at princeton.edu  Thu Feb 12 06:53:33 2004
From: ttasovac at princeton.edu (Toma Tasovac)
Date: Thu, 12 Feb 2004 12:53:33 +0100
Subject: mysqldump --xml & Rev Unicode [was: XML tree-view as a database
	frontend in Rev?]
In-Reply-To: <4D89DBE3-5CB4-11D8-A0E9-000393C4760A@mindlube.com>
References: <CAC1859B-5C8F-11D8-BA48-000A95C45C8C@princeton.edu>
	<4D89DBE3-5CB4-11D8-A0E9-000393C4760A@mindlube.com>
Message-ID: <15A09146-5D52-11D8-9AFD-000A95C45C8C@princeton.edu>

On Feb 11, 2004, at 6:04 PM, Alex Rice wrote:
> Anyways that's not exactly what you were asking.

I don't think I asked the right thing either... :)

There's an easy way to get the database content as an xml tree -- using 
mysqldump.  But here I'm encountering a Unicode difficulty again...

I use the shell of "/usr/local/mysql/bin/mysqldump -u root --xml 
xmlprep" to retrieve the xmldump of my database.  The database and the 
mysqldump are utf8, my stack's main font is set to Lucida Grande, 
Unicode, yet I see no way of displaying the dump properly, let alone 
parsing it etc...

put the shell of "/usr/local/mysql/bin/mysqldump -u root --xml xmlprep 
entry" into xmldata
put xmldata into fld "showXMLTree"
-- displays CJK mumbojumbo (naturally, since the stacks text font is 
Unicode)

put the shell of "/usr/local/mysql/bin/mysqldump -u root --xml xmlprep 
entry" into xmldata
put uniencode(xmldata, "utf8") into fld "showXMLTree"
-- displays all the xml tags correctly, but the database content is 
still mumbojumbo (not CJK though)

How should one deal with this?

All best,
Toma





From xbury.cs at clearstream.com  Thu Feb 12 07:35:16 2004
From: xbury.cs at clearstream.com (xbury.cs at clearstream.com)
Date: Thu, 12 Feb 2004 13:35:16 +0100
Subject: Intelligent Agents......
Message-ID: <OFA89AB7D4.145184CC-ONC1256E38.00450D49-C1256E38.004525F5@deutsche-boerse.de>

Never heard of Eager but there was a nice back-propagation 
case-solving AI named HyperX. Might be worth a google...

On 12/02/2004 10:37:45 AM use-revolution-bounces wrote:
>I am in the process of submitting a Master's proposal at
>the University if Abertay with a view to doing research
>into intelligent agents for teaching xTalk to
>teachers......
>
>I am at present looking for a copy of 'Eager', an IA
>developed for HyperCard........
>
>Richmond Mathewson
>
>__________________________________________________
>See Mathewson's software at:
>
>http://members.maclaunch.com/richmond/default.html    and
>http://www.runrev.com/Revolution1/developercentral/usercontributions.html
>_______________________________________
>---------------------------------------------------------------
>Great Macintosh Products
>The MacLaunch Store! http://www.maclaunch.com/cgi-launch/store/agora.cgi
>---------------------------------------------------------------
>_______________________________________________
>use-revolution mailing list
>use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
>http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution

Visit us at http://www.clearstream.com
                                                          
IMPORTANT MESSAGE

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The information contained in this e-mail is confidential and may be legally privileged. It is intended solely for the addressee. If you are not the intended recipient, any disclosure, copying, distribution or any action taken or omitted to be taken in reliance on it, is prohibited and may be unlawful. Any views expressed in this e-mail are those of the individual sender, except where the sender specifically states them to be the views of Clearstream International or of any of its affiliates or subsidiaries.

END OF DISCLAIMER

From 3mcgrath at adelphia.net  Thu Feb 12 08:10:05 2004
From: 3mcgrath at adelphia.net (Thomas McGrath III)
Date: Thu, 12 Feb 2004 08:10:05 -0500
Subject: itemDelimiter
Message-ID: <C692D4F8-5D5C-11D8-98B4-000A95DA60FA@adelphia.net>

Hello everybody,

I was wondering if the itemDelimiter can be more than one character? I 
mean instead of "," or ":" can it be "<!--display paragraphs-->" ?
If the answer is NO then can someone help me understand how to sift 
through the html below to just extract the title text and the 2 
paragraph texts? I know I can offset("<title>") field "HTML" but then 
what can I do to extract the text after that?
It may be obvious but for the life of me I can't 'see' it.
Thanks
TOm

<html>
<head>
<title>Just for Today Meditation</title>
</head>
<BODY TEXT="#000000" BGCOLOR="#F8D0B8" LINK="#999999" VLINK="#000000" 
ALINK="#FF0000">
<!--calculate day of the year -->
<!-- numdays=datediff("d",firstday,now)+1 -->
  <!--display paragraphs-->

    <p>Our fantasies and expectations about the future may be so extreme 
that, on our first date with someone, we find ourselves wondering which 
lawyer we'll use for the divorce. Almost every experience causes us to 
remember something from the past or begin projecting into the future. 
</p>

    <!--display paragraphs-->

    <p>At first, it's difficult to stay in the moment. It seems as 
though our minds won't stop. We have a hard time just enjoying 
ourselves. Each time we realize that our thoughts are not focused on 
what's happening right now, we can pray and ask a loving God to help us 
get out of ourselves. If we regret the past, we make amends by living 
differently today; if we dread the future, we work on living 
responsibly today. </p>

</body></html>


Macintosh PowerBook G-4 OSX 10.3.1, OS 9.2.2, 1.25 GHz, 512MB RAM, Rev 
2.1.2


Advanced Media Group
Thomas J McGrath III	? 2003 ?	3mcgrath at adelphia.net
220 Drake Road, Bethel Park, PA 15102



From briany at qldlearning.com  Thu Feb 12 08:14:11 2004
From: briany at qldlearning.com (Brian Yennie)
Date: Thu, 12 Feb 2004 08:14:11 -0500
Subject: itemDelimiter
In-Reply-To: <C692D4F8-5D5C-11D8-98B4-000A95DA60FA@adelphia.net>
Message-ID: <59005CE6-5D5D-11D8-9501-000393AA08D2@qldlearning.com>

You've got a couple options (at least):

1) Use regex, see matchText and match on something like 
"<text>(.*)</text>"
2) Use offset(), as you imagined, something like:

put "<title>" into startTag
put offset(startTag, theHTML) into startOffset
if (startOffset > 0) then
   put offset(endTag, theHTML, startOffset + length(startTag) - 1) into 
endOffset
   if (endOffset > 0) then
       put char startOffset to (startOffset + endOffset - 1) of theHTML 
into theTitle
   end if
end if


HTH

- Brian

> I was wondering if the itemDelimiter can be more than one character? I 
> mean instead of "," or ":" can it be "<!--display paragraphs-->" ?
> If the answer is NO then can someone help me understand how to sift 
> through the html below to just extract the title text and the 2 
> paragraph texts? I know I can offset("<title>") field "HTML" but then 
> what can I do to extract the text after that?
> It may be obvious but for the life of me I can't 'see' it.


From rcozens at pon.net  Thu Feb 12 09:08:55 2004
From: rcozens at pon.net (Rob Cozens)
Date: Thu, 12 Feb 2004 07:08:55 -0700
Subject: 10 bugs in 2 minutes time!
In-Reply-To: <ENEALNOCJBOOOHHCCEKNIEPJFMAA.b.xavier@internet.lu>
References: <ENEALNOCJBOOOHHCCEKNIEPJFMAA.b.xavier@internet.lu>
Message-ID: <a05100305bc51375cd135@[66.52.165.88]>

Xavier, et al:

1,  So far as I could tell, your 10 bugs are all related to the Rev 
Dev environment and Rev add-ons (eg: Geometry Manager) to the basic 
MetaCard framework.

2.  I write my own resize stack handler, and I have no problems with 
geometry at runtime.

3.  There is an issue in the AB where one cannot change the relative 
layers of controls in a group except when editing the group; however 
I can change the relative layers of a group and a non-grouped control 
at will.

The fault, Dear X-Man, is not in our MetaCard stars but in the 
Revolutionist wrapper.
-- 

Rob Cozens
CCW, Serendipity Software Company
http://www.oenolog.net/who.htm

"And I, which was two fooles, do so grow three;
Who are a little wise, the best fooles bee."

from "The Triple Foole" by John Donne (1572-1631)

From revolution at duncansoftware.com  Thu Feb 12 10:19:21 2004
From: revolution at duncansoftware.com (Stu Duncan)
Date: Thu, 12 Feb 2004 10:19:21 -0500
Subject: Creating Windows Shortcut
Message-ID: <006601c3f17b$98f94410$1402a8c0@Dell8250>

How do you create a Windows Start menu item from within Revolution? I can
copy my files from the CD to the users hard drive but now I need to create a
Start menu item and optionally a desktop shortcut. Can this be done from
within Rev?

Stu



From 3mcgrath at adelphia.net  Thu Feb 12 10:19:34 2004
From: 3mcgrath at adelphia.net (Thomas McGrath III)
Date: Thu, 12 Feb 2004 10:19:34 -0500
Subject: drawer does not open at bottom
Message-ID: <DCD446FA-5D6E-11D8-98B4-000A95DA60FA@adelphia.net>

Does anyone know for sure if/ that the drawer does not open at bottom 
of this stack?

drawer "Text" at bottom of this stack aligned to center

It only opens at left or right as if I had not specified either like 
the docs state will happen if you don't.

Tom


Macintosh PowerBook G-4 OSX 10.3.1, OS 9.2.2, 1.25 GHz, 512MB RAM, Rev 
2.1.2


Advanced Media Group
Thomas J McGrath III	? 2003 ?	3mcgrath at adelphia.net
220 Drake Road, Bethel Park, PA 15102



From 3mcgrath at adelphia.net  Thu Feb 12 10:35:21 2004
From: 3mcgrath at adelphia.net (Thomas McGrath III)
Date: Thu, 12 Feb 2004 10:35:21 -0500
Subject: RR as a browser plugin?
In-Reply-To: <BC5076ED.3D386%ambassador@fourthworld.com>
References: <BC5076ED.3D386%ambassador@fourthworld.com>
Message-ID: <1192F0BB-5D71-11D8-98B4-000A95DA60FA@adelphia.net>

back in the day
I used the SuperCard plugin in our corporate structure to role out 
quick easy stacks to departments that just wanted to view an update on 
info to our software (GUI and other info) in a simple way from a web 
browser. All they had to do was go to the company site and check it 
out.
We found it very useful.
Asking them to download a separate file was more than they wanted to do 
and more than I was allowed to ask of a Vice President.

Also, a big difference is that downloading an app to a hard disk is 
different than downloading a temp file to a browser.
I.E. temp files can be deleted by the browser but another scheme is 
needed to delete an app from a HD.
This is important for propriatary stacks that we don't want staying on 
a users computer. (Yes, I know we can disable a stack after use etc)

Although I agree with Richard overall I also agree with Alex on this.

Tom

On Feb 12, 2004, at 3:18 AM, Richard Gaskin wrote:

> Nor is it theoretical.  SuperCard had a plugin.  Aside from some 
> novelty use
> it was never popular even at sites with a heavy SC install.  Like most
> companies that have ever made a plugin, they don't bother anymore.

Macintosh PowerBook G-4 OSX 10.3.1, OS 9.2.2, 1.25 GHz, 512MB RAM, Rev 
2.1.2


Advanced Media Group
Thomas J McGrath III	? 2003 ?	3mcgrath at adelphia.net
220 Drake Road, Bethel Park, PA 15102




From rpresender at earthlink.net  Thu Feb 12 10:42:13 2004
From: rpresender at earthlink.net (Robert Presender)
Date: Thu, 12 Feb 2004 07:42:13 -0800
Subject: Print card snag
Message-ID: <0759E7A1-5D72-11D8-A6A1-000393A19046@earthlink.net>

  Using Rev 2.1.2, OS 10.2.8

I have hit a snag in trying to print a card on letter size paper. The 
card contains a scrolling list field whose vertical size extends beyond 
the card.  I had expected that the result of printing the card would be 
at least two pages with all the text of the scrolling field.  But such 
was not the case. Only what is shown on the screen is printed.

Can RR print a card with all its information on more than one page?  
Suggestions/help will be appreciated.

  The RR card is configured as follows:

1. Stack size: 643,521.  Card size: 643,586. Group size 622,564 which 
encloses all objects. Scrolling list field: 614,500. Note: Scrolling 
list field vertical size is beyond the vertical size of the card.

2. Card contains only single line fields except one scrolling list 
field.

3.The top 160 vertical pixels  of the card contains the single line 
fields in various locations. Below this is the scrolling list field.

4. Used the following script in the message box:
     answer printer (want landscape option because of width of card)
     print card x (also used print card x from 0,72 to 643,800 )

5. The print out only encompasses what is shown on the screen on a 
single page.
I expected a second page with the remainder of the text in the 
scrolling list field.

6. revPrintField is not an option because the top section of the card 
containing the single line fields are desired.

7. Also tried the above with a scrolling stack instead of a scrolling 
list field.  Had the same result.
   A similar card in my SuperCard version, using SC's scrolling window, 
can be made to print all the information on multiple pages.

Regards .... Bob
rpresender at earthlink.net
http://home.earthlink.net/~rep.shareware


From 3mcgrath at adelphia.net  Thu Feb 12 10:44:50 2004
From: 3mcgrath at adelphia.net (Thomas McGrath III)
Date: Thu, 12 Feb 2004 10:44:50 -0500
Subject: 10 bugs in 2 minutes time!
In-Reply-To: <89D6AEF4-5D33-11D8-9553-000393AA08D2@qldlearning.com>
References: <89D6AEF4-5D33-11D8-9553-000393AA08D2@qldlearning.com>
Message-ID: <648E4119-5D72-11D8-98B4-000A95DA60FA@adelphia.net>

Yeah!

I want my bugs fixed first!!!!  :-)

Tom


On Feb 12, 2004, at 3:14 AM, Brian Yennie wrote:

> Then join the process of helping improve it. That's a pretty unique 
> empowerment that you won't find with many major tools.
> If you don't have time to contribute to the community, why should it 
> jump to support you above and beyond others?
>
> - Brian
>

Macintosh PowerBook G-4 OSX 10.3.1, OS 9.2.2, 1.25 GHz, 512MB RAM, Rev 
2.1.2


Advanced Media Group
Thomas J McGrath III	? 2003 ?	3mcgrath at adelphia.net
220 Drake Road, Bethel Park, PA 15102




From 3mcgrath at adelphia.net  Thu Feb 12 10:46:34 2004
From: 3mcgrath at adelphia.net (Thomas McGrath III)
Date: Thu, 12 Feb 2004 10:46:34 -0500
Subject: 10 bugs in 2 minutes time!
In-Reply-To: <BC507847.3D386%ambassador@fourthworld.com>
References: <BC507847.3D386%ambassador@fourthworld.com>
Message-ID: <A2AE5558-5D72-11D8-98B4-000A95DA60FA@adelphia.net>

Richard,

Is there a way to 'see' the scripts generated by the GM??

I would like to learn some of it's tricks to hand script some objects.

Thanks

Tom

On Feb 12, 2004, at 3:24 AM, Richard Gaskin wrote:

> If the GM annoys, choosing never to be annoyed again is an option that 
> takes
> only one line per resized control.
>
> The resizeStack message is a powerful thing, well worth working with
> directly.  It gives you total control over layout with no ambiguity 
> and less
> overhead.
>
> -- 
>  Richard Gaskin
>  Fourth World Media Corporation

Macintosh PowerBook G-4 OSX 10.3.1, OS 9.2.2, 1.25 GHz, 512MB RAM, Rev 
2.1.2


Advanced Media Group
Thomas J McGrath III	? 2003 ?	3mcgrath at adelphia.net
220 Drake Road, Bethel Park, PA 15102




From klaus at major-k.de  Thu Feb 12 10:50:11 2004
From: klaus at major-k.de (Klaus Major)
Date: Thu, 12 Feb 2004 16:50:11 +0100
Subject: Creating Windows Shortcut
In-Reply-To: <006601c3f17b$98f94410$1402a8c0@Dell8250>
References: <006601c3f17b$98f94410$1402a8c0@Dell8250>
Message-ID: <242AF310-5D73-11D8-A4D8-000A27B49A96@major-k.de>

Hi Stu,

> How do you create a Windows Start menu item from within Revolution? I 
> can
> copy my files from the CD to the users hard drive but now I need to 
> create a
> Start menu item and optionally a desktop shortcut. Can this be done 
> from
> within Rev?

Yes :-)

...
    create alias (specialfolderpath("start") & "/" & "Name of 
Alias.lnk") to file "path to original app..."
...

!! Dont forget the suffix *.lnk (link) for the alias!!!

In the dox ->
specialfolderpath
create alias

Hope that helps...

> Stu

Regards

Klaus Major
klaus at major-k.de
www.major-k.de


From 3mcgrath at adelphia.net  Thu Feb 12 11:02:09 2004
From: 3mcgrath at adelphia.net (Thomas McGrath III)
Date: Thu, 12 Feb 2004 11:02:09 -0500
Subject: itemDelimiter
In-Reply-To: <59005CE6-5D5D-11D8-9501-000393AA08D2@qldlearning.com>
References: <59005CE6-5D5D-11D8-9501-000393AA08D2@qldlearning.com>
Message-ID: <D04AA52C-5D74-11D8-98B4-000A95DA60FA@adelphia.net>

Brian

Is the script below missing a - put "</title>" into endTag?
If so then I can get past that part to then try and grasp the next part 
of it.
I am trying to understand it and can't figure it out yet.....

Tom

On Feb 12, 2004, at 8:14 AM, Brian Yennie wrote:

> You've got a couple options (at least):
>
> 1) Use regex, see matchText and match on something like 
> "<text>(.*)</text>"
> 2) Use offset(), as you imagined, something like:
>
> put "<title>" into startTag
> put offset(startTag, theHTML) into startOffset
> if (startOffset > 0) then
>   put offset(endTag, theHTML, startOffset + length(startTag) - 1) into 
> endOffset
>   if (endOffset > 0) then
>       put char startOffset to (startOffset + endOffset - 1) of theHTML 
> into theTitle
>   end if
> end if
>
>
> HTH
>
> - Brian
>
>> I was wondering if the itemDelimiter can be more than one character? 
>> I mean instead of "," or ":" can it be "<!--display paragraphs-->" ?
>> If the answer is NO then can someone help me understand how to sift 
>> through the html below to just extract the title text and the 2 
>> paragraph texts? I know I can offset("<title>") field "HTML" but then 
>> what can I do to extract the text after that?
>> It may be obvious but for the life of me I can't 'see' it.
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>
>

Thomas J. McGrath III
SCS
1000 Killarney Dr.
Pittsburgh, PA 15234
412-885-8541


From 3mcgrath at adelphia.net  Thu Feb 12 11:04:33 2004
From: 3mcgrath at adelphia.net (Thomas McGrath III)
Date: Thu, 12 Feb 2004 11:04:33 -0500
Subject: Creating Windows Shortcut
In-Reply-To: <242AF310-5D73-11D8-A4D8-000A27B49A96@major-k.de>
References: <006601c3f17b$98f94410$1402a8c0@Dell8250>
	<242AF310-5D73-11D8-A4D8-000A27B49A96@major-k.de>
Message-ID: <259E9B46-5D75-11D8-98B4-000A95DA60FA@adelphia.net>

Now this is very 
cool!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

How would you do this on the Mac too.?

Thanks

Tom
On Feb 12, 2004, at 10:50 AM, Klaus Major wrote:

>
>> How do you create a Windows Start menu item from within Revolution? I 
>> can
>> copy my files from the CD to the users hard drive but now I need to 
>> create a
>> Start menu item and optionally a desktop shortcut. Can this be done 
>> from
>> within Rev?
>
> Yes :-)
>
> ...
>    create alias (specialfolderpath("start") & "/" & "Name of 
> Alias.lnk") to file "path to original app..."
> ...
>
> !! Dont forget the suffix *.lnk (link) for the alias!!!

Thomas J. McGrath III
SCS
1000 Killarney Dr.
Pittsburgh, PA 15234
412-885-8541


From 3mcgrath at adelphia.net  Thu Feb 12 11:11:46 2004
From: 3mcgrath at adelphia.net (Thomas McGrath III)
Date: Thu, 12 Feb 2004 11:11:46 -0500
Subject: Drawers size
Message-ID: <28123455-5D76-11D8-98B4-000A95DA60FA@adelphia.net>

To anyone,

Also, can I set the size of a drawer to any size? right now it seems it 
is the same size as my parent stack?????

Thanks to you all

Tom

Macintosh PowerBook G-4 OSX 10.3.1, OS 9.2.2, 1.25 GHz, 512MB RAM, Rev 
2.1.2


Advanced Media Group
Thomas J McGrath III	? 2003 ?	3mcgrath at adelphia.net
220 Drake Road, Bethel Park, PA 15102



From klaus at major-k.de  Thu Feb 12 11:12:52 2004
From: klaus at major-k.de (Klaus Major)
Date: Thu, 12 Feb 2004 17:12:52 +0100
Subject: Creating Windows Shortcut
In-Reply-To: <259E9B46-5D75-11D8-98B4-000A95DA60FA@adelphia.net>
References: <006601c3f17b$98f94410$1402a8c0@Dell8250>
	<242AF310-5D73-11D8-A4D8-000A27B49A96@major-k.de>
	<259E9B46-5D75-11D8-98B4-000A95DA60FA@adelphia.net>
Message-ID: <4F44BD7F-5D76-11D8-A4D8-000A27B49A96@major-k.de>

Hi Thomas McGrath III,

> Now this is very  
> cool!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
>
> How would you do this on the Mac too.?

Hmm, lemme think...

Ah, got it!

...just do the same, but you can omit the suffix :-)

Again, "speicalfolderpath" is the magic word..

There are more specialfolderpath-codes on the webpage of Ken Ray:

www.sonsothunder.com

Very good hints and tricks availabel there!


Here is a good one that i recently found out for the mac:
specialfolderpath("dtp??") ##? = ALT + F, "mac-ish" for folder :-)

Returns the path to folder "Desktop Pictures"...

> Thanks

You're welcome...

> Tom

Regards

Klaus Major
klaus at major-k.de
www.major-k.de


From briany at qldlearning.com  Thu Feb 12 11:16:16 2004
From: briany at qldlearning.com (Brian Yennie)
Date: Thu, 12 Feb 2004 11:16:16 -0500
Subject: itemDelimiter
In-Reply-To: <D04AA52C-5D74-11D8-98B4-000A95DA60FA@adelphia.net>
Message-ID: <C8BA6E3A-5D76-11D8-9501-000393AA08D2@qldlearning.com>

Yep, good catch.

This should be a little more cleaned up:

put "<title>" into startTag
put "</title>" into endTag
put offset(startTag, theHTML) into startOffset
if (startOffset > 0) then
   put offset(endTag, theHTML, startOffset + length(startTag) - 1) into 
endOffset
   if (endOffset > 0) then
       put char (startOffset + length(startTag) - 1) to (startOffset + 
endOffset - 1) of theHTML into theTitle
   end if
end if

> Brian
>
> Is the script below missing a - put "</title>" into endTag?
> If so then I can get past that part to then try and grasp the next 
> part of it.
> I am trying to understand it and can't figure it out yet.....
>
> Tom


From klaus at major-k.de  Thu Feb 12 11:22:44 2004
From: klaus at major-k.de (Klaus Major)
Date: Thu, 12 Feb 2004 17:22:44 +0100
Subject: Drawers size
In-Reply-To: <28123455-5D76-11D8-98B4-000A95DA60FA@adelphia.net>
References: <28123455-5D76-11D8-98B4-000A95DA60FA@adelphia.net>
Message-ID: <B004CE8E-5D77-11D8-A4D8-000A27B49A96@major-k.de>

Hi Thomas McGrath III,

> To anyone,
>
> Also, can I set the size of a drawer to any size? right now it seems 
> it is the same size as my parent stack?????

Why don't you just test it out and tell us afterwards? ;-)

But don't forget the psychological impact that might have on the user!!!

I, personally, would probably p... my pants, if the drawer i just 
pulled out of
my commode is obviously BIGGER than the commode itself!!! :-D

> Thanks to you all
>
> Tom

Regards

Klaus Major
klaus at major-k.de
www.major-k.de


From ambassador at fourthworld.com  Thu Feb 12 11:23:16 2004
From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin)
Date: Thu, 12 Feb 2004 08:23:16 -0800
Subject: 10 bugs in 2 minutes time!
In-Reply-To: <A2AE5558-5D72-11D8-98B4-000A95DA60FA@adelphia.net>
Message-ID: <BC50E874.3D3E7%ambassador@fourthworld.com>

Thomas McGrath III wrote:

> Is there a way to 'see' the scripts generated by the GM??
> 
> I would like to learn some of it's tricks to hand script some objects.

Poke around in the backscripts.

Learning from that might be useful in a general sense, but it's very
generalized so it's less valuable for understanding resizing.

Perhaps better for learning resizing is to make a stack with a few objects
and experiment.  You'll learn more in an hour of hands-on experimentation
than reading code that works very differently from how you'd solve the
problem yourself.

The most useful thing about the resizeStack message is that it comes with
two params, which give you the new width and height of the stack. So to make
a text field which conforms to Apple's 20-pixel boundry at the edge of
windows you could write:

on resizeStack x,y
  set the rect of fld 1 to 20,20,x-20,y-20
end resizeStack

When you have a lot of objects you may not want to hard-wire all
coordinates, just those that change.  One way to help with that is to use
handler that takes an object reference and a list of four points, ignoring
empty slots and using values present in other slots to adjust the rect:


on SetObjRect pObj
  put the rect of pObj into r
  repeat with i = 1 to 4
    get param(i+1)
    if it is not empty then put it into item i of r
  end repeat
   put r
  set the rect of pObj to r
end SetObjRect


To call it you just pass it an object reference and a list of new
coordinates, allowing you to write just one line per object even for
object-relative positioning:


on resizeStack x,y
  set the bottomright of btn "OK" to x-20,y-20
  set the bottomright of btn "Cancel" to (the left of btn "OK"-8),y-20
  SetObjRect the long ID of fld 1,"","",x-20,the top of btn "OK"-12
end resizeStack


-- 
 Richard Gaskin 
 Fourth World Media Corporation
 ___________________________________________________________
 Ambassador at FourthWorld.com       http://www.FourthWorld.com


From ambassador at fourthworld.com  Thu Feb 12 11:56:19 2004
From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin)
Date: Thu, 12 Feb 2004 08:56:19 -0800
Subject: RR as a browser plugin?
In-Reply-To: <1192F0BB-5D71-11D8-98B4-000A95DA60FA@adelphia.net>
Message-ID: <BC50F033.3D3F6%ambassador@fourthworld.com>

Thomas McGrath III wrote:

> back in the day
> I used the SuperCard plugin in our corporate structure to role out
> quick easy stacks to departments that just wanted to view an update on
> info to our software (GUI and other info) in a simple way from a web
> browser. All they had to do was go to the company site and check it
> out.

But that meant the plugin was custom pre-installed.  Pre-installing a helper
app could be done just as simply.  And since SC had no built-in Internet
connectivity it's not like you had an alternative, the plugin was the only
way to deliver Internet-connected applets.

With a Rev-based helper app you have all the Internet connectivity you'd get
in a browser and more, and your choice of having greater security than a
browser by using Rev's secureMode, or unbridled power with it off.

> We found it very useful.
> Asking them to download a separate file was more than they wanted to do
> and more than I was allowed to ask of a Vice President.

No need for that:  your standalone helper app can download stacks on the
fly, just as a plugin would and as RevNet does now.

Stack files are stack files, the VM is the VM. You need the VM pre-installed
to run applets (stack files), so in practical terms it matters little
whether you have the VM in a browser's Plugins folder or outside of that
folder as a standalone.

> Also, a big difference is that downloading an app to a hard disk is
> different than downloading a temp file to a browser.
> I.E. temp files can be deleted by the browser but another scheme is
> needed to delete an app from a HD.
> This is important for propriatary stacks that we don't want staying on
> a users computer. (Yes, I know we can disable a stack after use etc)

This is where Rev has an advantage over SC:  in SC you must have a physical
project file to run it, whether in a standalone or the (now defunct) plugin.
But Rev can run stacks that exist just in memory, true download-n-go, as
RevNet does.

Again, I'm not saying a browser plugin is completely useless.  I'm merely
saying that it offers no significant real-world advantage you can't
capitalize on right now with the tools in hand today.


That's all I'm trying to accomplish here:  when you identify a need you can
go two ways to solve it, finding a way to satisfy that need today or
defining the problem in terms that require things beyond your control and
which may never actually come to pass.  Choosing the latter is less likely
to get results if doing the former can get the job done.

When a customer requests a feature it's too easy to fall into reactive mode,
where you run off and go implement the feature without asking how it will be
used, what problem it will solve.  That's the role of task analysis,
sometimes critical for arriving at optimal solutions.  Taking the "what" of
a customer request without asking for the "why" puts one at risk of rushing
feature afer feature to market, driving up development costs without ever
actually nailing the task.

If you have a customer asking for a plugin, ask them what they want to
accomplish.  I'll wager that after a good task analysis is done you can
satisfy their needs and then some right now, without needing to put
everything on hold waiting for someone else to give you a more limited
implementation of the same capabilities.

Should Rev decide to make a plugin down the road, your experience in
building working systems outside of the browser will empower you to make
experienced recommendations on how it gets done.  And in the meantime you
have clients with solved problems.

-- 
 Richard Gaskin 
 Fourth World Media Corporation
 ___________________________________________________________
 Ambassador at FourthWorld.com       http://www.FourthWorld.com


From gizmotron at earthlink.net  Thu Feb 12 12:07:08 2004
From: gizmotron at earthlink.net (Mark Brownell)
Date: Thu, 12 Feb 2004 09:07:08 -0800
Subject: itemDelimiter
In-Reply-To: <C692D4F8-5D5C-11D8-98B4-000A95DA60FA@adelphia.net>
Message-ID: <E419010E-5D7D-11D8-BF21-000A95859272@earthlink.net>

Thomas,

Here are three functions for pulling tags out:
What you might need is one of my Parallel Numerical Lineal Parsers:

-- get the title
-- put your HTML into tZap
-- put PNLPgetElement("<title>", "</title>", tZap) into theTitle

-- get the paragraphs in two steps
-- put getPNLPelements("<p>", "</p>", tZap) into theParagraphArray
-- put theParagraphArray[1] into parOne
-- put theParagraphArray[2] into parTwo

You can even get the attributes from this:
> -- <BODY TEXT="#000000" BGCOLOR="#F8D0B8" LINK="#999999" 
> VLINK="#000000" ALINK="#FF0000">

-- put PNLPgetElement("<body", "</body>", tZap) into theBody
-- put PNLPgetAttribute("TEXT", theBody) into theTEXTAttribute
-- put PNLPgetAttribute("BGCOLOR", theBody) into theBGCOLORAttribute

function PNLPgetElement tStTag, tEdTag, stngToSch
   put empty into zapped
   put the number of chars in tStTag into dChars
   put offset(tStTag,stngToSch) into tNum1
   put offset(tEdTag,stngToSch) into tNum2
   if tNum1 < 1 then
     return "error"
     exit PNLPgetElement
   end if
   if tNum2 < 1 then
     return "error"
     exit PNLPgetElement
   end if
   put char (tNum1 + dChars) to (tNum2 - 1) of stngToSch into zapped
   return zapped
end PNLPgetElement

-- put getPNLPelements("<record>", "</record>", tZap) into theArray
function getPNLPelements tStartTag, tEndTag, StringToSearch
   put empty into tArray
   put 0 into tStart1
   put 0 into tStart2
   put 1 into tElementNum
   put the number of chars in tStartTag into dChars
   repeat
     put offset(tStartTag,StringToSearch,tStart1) into tNum1
     put (tNum1 + tStart1) into tStart1
     if tNum1 < 1 then exit repeat
     put offset(tEndTag,StringToSearch,tStart2) into tNum2
     put (tNum2 + tStart2) into tStart2
     if tNum2 < 1 then exit repeat
     --if tNum2 < tNum1 then exit repeat
     put char (tStart1 + dChars) to (tStart2 - 1) of StringToSearch into 
zapped
     put zapped into tArray[tElementNum]
     add 1 to tElementNum
   end repeat
   return tArray
end getPNLPelements

-- put PNLPgetAttribute("name", tZap) into theAttribute
function PNLPgetAttribute tAttribute, strngToSearch
   put empty into zapA
   put quote into Qx
   put tAttribute & "=" & Qx into tAttributeX
   put the number of chars in tAttributeX into dChars
   put offset(tAttributeX,strngToSearch) into tNum1
   if tNum1 < 1 then
     return "error"
     exit PNLPgetAttribute
   end if
   put tNum1 + 1 into tNum2
   put offset(Qx,strngToSearch,tNum2) into tNum3
   put offset("=",strngToSearch,tNum2) into tNum4
   if tNum3 < 1 then
     return "error"
     exit PNLPgetAttribute
   end if
   if tNum4 < tNum3 then
     return "error"
     exit PNLPgetAttribute
   end if
   put char (tNum2 + 1) to (tNum3 - 1) of stngToSch into zapA
   return zapA
end PNLPgetAttribute

Mark Brownell

P.S. I would love a multi-character delimiter.


On Thursday, February 12, 2004, at 05:10  AM, Thomas McGrath III wrote:

> Hello everybody,
>
> I was wondering if the itemDelimiter can be more than one character? I 
> mean instead of "," or ":" can it be "<!--display paragraphs-->" ?
> If the answer is NO then can someone help me understand how to sift 
> through the html below to just extract the title text and the 2 
> paragraph texts? I know I can offset("<title>") field "HTML" but then 
> what can I do to extract the text after that?
> It may be obvious but for the life of me I can't 'see' it.
> Thanks
> TOm
>
> <html>
> <head>
> <title>Just for Today Meditation</title>
> </head>
> <BODY TEXT="#000000" BGCOLOR="#F8D0B8" LINK="#999999" VLINK="#000000" 
> ALINK="#FF0000">
> <!--calculate day of the year -->
> <!-- numdays=datediff("d",firstday,now)+1 -->
>  <!--display paragraphs-->
>
>    <p>Our fantasies and expectations about the future may be so 
> extreme that, on our first date with someone, we find ourselves 
> wondering which lawyer we'll use for the divorce. Almost every 
> experience causes us to remember something from the past or begin 
> projecting into the future. </p>
>
>    <!--display paragraphs-->
>
>    <p>At first, it's difficult to stay in the moment. It seems as 
> though our minds won't stop. We have a hard time just enjoying 
> ourselves. Each time we realize that our thoughts are not focused on 
> what's happening right now, we can pray and ask a loving God to help 
> us get out of ourselves. If we regret the past, we make amends by 
> living differently today; if we dread the future, we work on living 
> responsibly today. </p>
>
> </body></html>
> Thomas J McGrath III


From chrism at lumin.us  Thu Feb 12 12:08:34 2004
From: chrism at lumin.us (Christopher Mitchell)
Date: Thu, 12 Feb 2004 11:08:34 -0600
Subject: RR as a browser plugin?
In-Reply-To: <57881D14-5D2E-11D8-BAB1-000393C4760A@mindlube.com>
References: <BC506AD6.3D37A%ambassador@fourthworld.com>
	<57881D14-5D2E-11D8-BAB1-000393C4760A@mindlube.com>
Message-ID: <1749BF99-5D7E-11D8-88AE-000393B64EDC@lumin.us>

And universities... IT departments in universities can be just as 
strange.  My professor, a mac user for a particular program 
(Accordance), instead of being permitted to bring in his own computer 
at his own expense was given a very very very bottom of the barrel PC 
gray-box and some Mac emulation software.

Now which do you think is going to be more of a challenge to support?

But yes, they image everything as well and if education is a market for 
RunRev on the backend, this would work well enough there too.

Maybe we should just get the engine preloaded, or perhaps I don't see 
why that is any more dangerous than any other engine being installed 
(.NET, java, etc... they're (in some sense) all very similar))

I did see some information about homestacks being infiltrated by a 
HyperCard virus, but that seems unlikely to be anymore dangerous than, 
for example, MS Office or Windows in general.

Yours,
Chris
On Feb 12, 2004, at 1:37 AM, Alex Rice wrote:

>
> On Feb 12, 2004, at 12:27 AM, Richard Gaskin wrote:
>
>> Because unless it's bundled it will still need to be downloaded, and 
>> if one
>> needs to download and install something it could just as well provide
>> multiple window, menus, and other options not possible in a browser.
>>
>> Look at the number of plugins in '98, and how few are left today.  
>> Bundling
>> is the advantage of plugins.  Without bundling, an engine's an 
>> engine....
>
> It's not such a black and white issue.
>
> You are talking about average-joe-consumer out there with Windows 98, 
> and generalizing that to say there is no advantage to browser plugins, 
> period. I disagree.
>
> Look at IT departments that ghost their systems for rollouts. No 
> downloading of plugins required. In fact downloading may not be 
> allowed. In fact- public www access may not even be allowed! 
> Corporations are strange places.
>
> --
> Alex Rice | Mindlube Software | http://mindlube.com
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>


From ambassador at fourthworld.com  Thu Feb 12 12:26:14 2004
From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin)
Date: Thu, 12 Feb 2004 09:26:14 -0800
Subject: RR as a browser plugin?
In-Reply-To: <1749BF99-5D7E-11D8-88AE-000393B64EDC@lumin.us>
Message-ID: <BC50F736.3D400%ambassador@fourthworld.com>

Christopher Mitchell wrote:

> Maybe we should just get the engine preloaded, or perhaps I don't see
> why that is any more dangerous than any other engine being installed
> (.NET, java, etc... they're (in some sense) all very similar))

Precisely.

And with the current implementation of the secureMode property it's at least
as safe:  no file I/O, no AppleScript, no shell, no registry access, etc.

-- 
 Richard Gaskin 
 Fourth World Media Corporation
 ___________________________________________________________
 Ambassador at FourthWorld.com       http://www.FourthWorld.com


From alex at mindlube.com  Thu Feb 12 12:33:57 2004
From: alex at mindlube.com (Alex Rice)
Date: Thu, 12 Feb 2004 10:33:57 -0700
Subject: Print card snag
In-Reply-To: <0759E7A1-5D72-11D8-A6A1-000393A19046@earthlink.net>
References: <0759E7A1-5D72-11D8-A6A1-000393A19046@earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <A333E8A8-5D81-11D8-AC99-000393C4760A@mindlube.com>


On Feb 12, 2004, at 8:42 AM, Robert Presender wrote:

> 6. revPrintField is not an option because the top section of the card 
> containing the single line fields are desired.

Robert, print card and print stack don't do any pagination. They snap 
an image of the card and send it to the printer, once per card.

revPrintField does do pagination.

If you can't use revPrintField for some reason, you can also open the 
revPrintField script and try to figure out what it's doing. It's 
difficult to understand, but the printing handlers in runrev are not 
locked.

--
Alex Rice | Mindlube Software | http://mindlube.com


From ambassador at fourthworld.com  Thu Feb 12 13:58:36 2004
From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin)
Date: Thu, 12 Feb 2004 10:58:36 -0800
Subject: [OT] Improving OS X's x-play file copying
Message-ID: <BC510CDC.3D415%ambassador@fourthworld.com>

When copying files from OS X to a mounted Win volume, OS X insists on
creating metadata files for each file and folder I copy (the ones starting
with ".").

Is there a checkbox somewhere labeled "Please stop being oh so very clever
and instead only copy the files I'm telling you to copy without also
creating a bunch of stuff I neither asked for nor need", or the equivalent?

TIA - 

-- 
 Richard Gaskin 
 Fourth World Media Corporation
 Developer of WebMerge: Publish any database on any Web site
 ___________________________________________________________
 Ambassador at FourthWorld.com       http://www.FourthWorld.com


From rcozens at pon.net  Thu Feb 12 13:17:48 2004
From: rcozens at pon.net (Rob Cozens)
Date: Thu, 12 Feb 2004 11:17:48 -0700
Subject: Print card snag
In-Reply-To: <A333E8A8-5D81-11D8-AC99-000393C4760A@mindlube.com>
References: <0759E7A1-5D72-11D8-A6A1-000393A19046@earthlink.net>
 <A333E8A8-5D81-11D8-AC99-000393C4760A@mindlube.com>
Message-ID: <a05100300bc517376f033@[66.52.165.88]>

>revPrintField does do pagination.

If you want more than that, Robert, check out revPrintText: 
multi-line header and footer as well as pagination.
-- 

Rob Cozens
CCW, Serendipity Software Company
http://www.oenolog.net/who.htm

"And I, which was two fooles, do so grow three;
Who are a little wise, the best fooles bee."

from "The Triple Foole" by John Donne (1572-1631)

From stephenREVOLUTION at barncard.com  Thu Feb 12 09:00:53 2004
From: stephenREVOLUTION at barncard.com (Stephen Quinn Barncard)
Date: Thu, 12 Feb 2004 06:00:53 -0800
Subject: itemDelimiter
Message-ID: <p06020403bc5136e702e6@[192.168.1.100]>

I'm not sure about more than one character being a delimiter, however 
you could use the Replace function first to substitute the desired 
phrase with a delimiter character such as tab before selecting items.


>Hello everybody,
>
>I was wondering if the itemDelimiter can be more than one character? 
>I mean instead of "," or ":" can it be "<!--display paragraphs-->" ?




From alex at mindlube.com  Thu Feb 12 14:28:55 2004
From: alex at mindlube.com (Alex Rice)
Date: Thu, 12 Feb 2004 12:28:55 -0700
Subject: Print card snag
In-Reply-To: <a05100300bc517376f033@[66.52.165.88]>
References: <0759E7A1-5D72-11D8-A6A1-000393A19046@earthlink.net>
	<A333E8A8-5D81-11D8-AC99-000393C4760A@mindlube.com>
	<a05100300bc517376f033@[66.52.165.88]>
Message-ID: <B294B672-5D91-11D8-AC99-000393C4760A@mindlube.com>


On Feb 12, 2004, at 11:17 AM, Rob Cozens wrote:

>> revPrintField does do pagination.
>
> If you want more than that, Robert, check out revPrintText: multi-line 
> header and footer as well as pagination.

Good point - and if I remember correctly, revPrintField just calls 
revPrintText with bunch of empty parameters.

--
Alex Rice | Mindlube Software | http://mindlube.com


From scott at tactilemedia.com  Thu Feb 12 14:44:00 2004
From: scott at tactilemedia.com (Scott Rossi)
Date: Thu, 12 Feb 2004 11:44:00 -0800
Subject: [OT] Improving OS X's x-play file copying
In-Reply-To: <BC510CDC.3D415%ambassador@fourthworld.com>
Message-ID: <BC511780.A1D0%scott@tactilemedia.com>

Recently, "Richard Gaskin"  wrote:

> When copying files from OS X to a mounted Win volume, OS X insists on
> creating metadata files for each file and folder I copy (the ones starting
> with ".").
> 
> Is there a checkbox somewhere labeled "Please stop being oh so very clever
> and instead only copy the files I'm telling you to copy without also
> creating a bunch of stuff I neither asked for nor need", or the equivalent?

I've never seen one.  I believe it does this to maintain the original file
associations, but I've never seen a way to shut it off.  As I'm sure you
know, it also creates those most excellent .ds_store files within folders.
I've had to explain to many a Windows client to ignore those files.

Regards,

Scott Rossi
Creative Director
Tactile Media, Multimedia & Design
-----
E: scott at tactilemedia.com
W: http://www.tactilemedia.com


From jperryl at ecs.fullerton.edu  Thu Feb 12 14:44:08 2004
From: jperryl at ecs.fullerton.edu (Judy Perry)
Date: Thu, 12 Feb 2004 11:44:08 -0800 (PST)
Subject: OT: Village signing [was: RR as a browser plugin?]
In-Reply-To: <BC506014.4EFB%pixelbird@interisland.net>
Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.4.33.0402121143140.17121-100000@titan.ecs.fullerton.edu>

Funny you should mention this... This is a project on my way-back burner,
to teach some simple ASL to deaf kids using a Mr. Potatohead metaphor...

Judy

On Wed, 11 Feb 2004, Ken Norris wrote:

> ----------
> I never knew that. I've been wanting to learn at least AMSLAN for a long
> time, but there are no teachers or solid learning sources on this island, no
> courses available.
>
> Did you ever write a tutorial for learning it on the computer?


From jacque at hyperactivesw.com  Thu Feb 12 14:50:14 2004
From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay)
Date: Thu, 12 Feb 2004 13:50:14 -0600
Subject: OT: Village signing [was: RR as a browser plugin?]
In-Reply-To: <BC506014.4EFB%pixelbird@interisland.net>
References: <BC506014.4EFB%pixelbird@interisland.net>
Message-ID: <402BD8F6.5020308@hyperactivesw.com>

On 2/12/04 12:41 AM, Ken Norris wrote:

> I never knew that. I've been wanting to learn at least AMSLAN for a long
> time, but there are no teachers or solid learning sources on this island, no
> courses available.
> 
> Did you ever write a tutorial for learning it on the computer?

No. I can't imagine the amount of work that would take. You can't 
exactly write it down; it would all have to be videos.


-- 
Jacqueline Landman Gay         |     jacque at hyperactivesw.com
HyperActive Software           |     http://www.hyperactivesw.com

From chipp at chipp.com  Thu Feb 12 15:37:30 2004
From: chipp at chipp.com (Chipp Walters)
Date: Thu, 12 Feb 2004 14:37:30 -0600
Subject: Richard Gaskin's Cryptography example is now a tutorial stack...
Message-ID: <PKEHJNDKHJJOBHKDGFHKMEBICCAA.chipp@chipp.com>

You can find it at the bottom of the page:

http://www.altuit.com/webs/altuit2/RunRev/Tutorials.htm

best,

Chipp

From stephenREVOLUTION at barncard.com  Thu Feb 12 15:58:43 2004
From: stephenREVOLUTION at barncard.com (Stephen Quinn Barncard)
Date: Thu, 12 Feb 2004 12:58:43 -0800
Subject: RR as a browser plugin?
Message-ID: <p0602040abc5199761c79@[192.168.1.100]>

ummm.... there is no such thing as 'Mac Emulation Software' - Apple 
would never license the firmware...and if I had such Draconian 
requirements for a class, I'd change schools...

>And universities... IT departments in universities can be just as 
>strange.  My professor, a mac user for a particular program 
>(Accordance), instead of being permitted to bring in his own 
>computer at his own expense was given a very very very bottom of the 
>barrel PC gray-box and some Mac emulation software.
>
>

From stephenREVOLUTION at barncard.com  Thu Feb 12 16:00:22 2004
From: stephenREVOLUTION at barncard.com (Stephen Quinn Barncard)
Date: Thu, 12 Feb 2004 13:00:22 -0800
Subject: hypercard virus
Message-ID: <p06020409bc5199350d2b@[192.168.1.100]>

Ha ha the hypercard 'virus' -- written in Hypertalk!!

there hasn't been a real mac virus of any kind for about 6 or 7 
years... I don't bother with any anti-virus software...I've got 
enough problems with spam clogs


>I did see some information about homestacks being infiltrated by a 
>HyperCard virus, but that seems unlikely to be anymore dangerous 
>than, for example, MS Office or Windows in general.
>

From jmac at consensustech.com  Thu Feb 12 16:02:38 2004
From: jmac at consensustech.com (Jim MacConnell)
Date: Thu, 12 Feb 2004 13:02:38 -0800
Subject: itemDelimiter
In-Reply-To: <C8BA6E3A-5D76-11D8-9501-000393AA08D2@qldlearning.com>
Message-ID: <BC5129EE.2DC9%jmac@consensustech.com>

Tom,

--- sure you have multiple answers by now but I'm just now having a minute
--- Also no sleep last night so long winded.. Will refrain in future but
--- I've done this already so here goes... Btw Untested

While I hesitate to give scripting advice as I am just relearning, and prone
to really dumb mistakes ... I'm working through a similar thing.  The
routine (corrected) that Brian has is basically the way I do it. There are a
couple of things to consider when you are looking for repeating types of
info like all the paragraphs <p> xxxx </p>
 
= = = = = = =
The first is to carefully keep track of where you are looking by resetting
the startOffset after you have found an instance of what you are looking for
so you don't "find" the same one again again...

-- Make sure we start at the beginning when looking for a particular tag
-- and that our end starts past our start
Put 0 into startOffset
Put 1 into endOffset

-- Substitute whatever tags you are looking for for the <title> and </title>
-- For example "<p>" and "</p"
put "<title>" into startTag
put "</title>" into endTag

-- Add a loop to keep going...
-- Here (endOffset = 0) flags  having found the last tag
Repeat while (endOffset is not 0)
 
    -- NOTE: Added startOffset into the offset(..)
    put offset(startTag, theHTML, startOffset) into startOffset
    if (startOffset > 0) then
       put offset(endTag, theHTML, startOffset + length(startTag) - 1)
            into endOffset
       if (endOffset > 0) then
           put char (startOffset + length(startTag) - 1) to (startOffset +
            endOffset - 1) of theHTML into theText
       end if

    -- Then reset the starting point based on how far you've gone
    -- and starting our search from that point on
    put startOffset + endOffset into startOffset
    
    end if
    -- Here do what you want with theText since you
    -- are putting this in a loop. For example:
    put "*****" & return & theText after theAnswer

end repeat


= = = = = = =
Another approach is to be less careful about the startOffset and just blow
away the text you've already been through... This means your "offset" lines
can be a little simpler but you need a separate place to store the text..
Not sure if this is an advantage but it makes looking at the HTML text
easier cuz there's less of it as you go

-- Make sure we make a copy of our HTML text
Put theHTML into aSafeCopyoftheHTML

-- Substitute whatever tags you are looking for for the <title> and </title>
-- For example "<p>" and "</p"
put "<title>" into startTag
put "</title>" into endTag

-- Make sure your endTag exists and set up loop
Put Offset(endTag, theHTML ) into endOffset

-- Add a loop to keep going... Using endOffset
-- as a flag having found the last tag
Repeat while (endOffset is not 0)
    put offset(startTag, theHTML ) into startOffset
    put offset(endTag, theHTML , startOffset + length(startTag) - 1) into
endOffset
    if (endOffset > 0) then
        put char (startOffset + length(startTag) - 1) to (startOffset +
endOffset - 1) of theHTML into theText
    end if

    -- Now clean up theHTML by getting rid of what you've used
    delete char 1 to endOffset + length(endTag) of theHTML
   
    -- Here do what you want with theText since you
    -- are putting this in a loop. For example:
    put "*****" & return & theText after theAnswer

end repeat
= = = = =


Finally... Seems like it could/should be broken into a separate function
usage: put grabText(theHTML,"<p>,"</p>","All") into theParagraphs

Function grabText theHTML, startTag, endTag, oneOrAll

    Put 0 into startOffset
    Put 1 into endOffset
    Put 0 into numFound
    Put empty into theFoundtext
    Repeat while (endOffset is not 0)
        put offset(startTag, theHTML, startOffset) into startOffset
        if (startOffset > 0) then
            put offset(endTag, theHTML, startOffset + length(startTag) - 1)
into endOffset
            if (endOffset > 0) then
                put char (startOffset + length(startTag) - 1) to
(startOffset + endOffset - 1) of theHTML into theText
             put startOffset + endOffset into startOffset
         end if
     end if
     
    -- Here is the stuff added for the return info
    -- in this case using items to store the results
    If numFound > 0 then put theText into item numFound of theFoundText
    end repeat
    return theFoundText
End grabText


From alex at mindlube.com  Thu Feb 12 16:19:04 2004
From: alex at mindlube.com (Alex Rice)
Date: Thu, 12 Feb 2004 14:19:04 -0700
Subject: itemDelimiter
In-Reply-To: <59005CE6-5D5D-11D8-9501-000393AA08D2@qldlearning.com>
References: <59005CE6-5D5D-11D8-9501-000393AA08D2@qldlearning.com>
Message-ID: <15CFFFF9-5DA1-11D8-AC99-000393C4760A@mindlube.com>


On Feb 12, 2004, at 6:14 AM, Brian Yennie wrote:

> You've got a couple options (at least):
>
> 1) Use regex, see matchText and match on something like 
> "<text>(.*)</text>"
> 2) Use offset(), as you imagined, something like:
>
Also, if the data source is under your control, you can produce XHTML 
(html but stricter), and then treat it as XML and use revXML* 
functions.

--
Alex Rice | Mindlube Software | http://mindlube.com


From briany at qldlearning.com  Thu Feb 12 16:18:37 2004
From: briany at qldlearning.com (Brian Yennie)
Date: Thu, 12 Feb 2004 16:18:37 -0500
Subject: RR as a browser plugin?
In-Reply-To: <p0602040abc5199761c79@[192.168.1.100]>
Message-ID: <05FD02DD-5DA1-11D8-9501-000393AA08D2@qldlearning.com>

Sure there is!

http://www.maconlinux.org/

Among others.

> ummm.... there is no such thing as 'Mac Emulation Software' - Apple 
> would never license the firmware...and if I had such Draconian 
> requirements for a class, I'd change schools...


From stephenREVOLUTION at barncard.com  Thu Feb 12 16:25:45 2004
From: stephenREVOLUTION at barncard.com (Stephen Quinn Barncard)
Date: Thu, 12 Feb 2004 13:25:45 -0800
Subject: RR as a browser plugin?
Message-ID: <p0602040fbc519f758434@[192.168.1.100]>

But it's under Linux/PPC! If I had a Power PC processor, why bother, 
I'd just run Mac OS.


>Sure there is!
>
>http://www.maconlinux.org/
>
>Among others.
>
>>ummm.... there is no such thing as 'Mac Emulation Software' - Apple 
>>would never license the firmware...and if I had such Draconian 
>>requirements for a class, I'd change schools...
>
>_______________________________________________
>use-revolution mailing list
>use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
>http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution


From Roger.E.Eller at sealedair.com  Thu Feb 12 16:24:03 2004
From: Roger.E.Eller at sealedair.com (Roger.E.Eller at sealedair.com)
Date: Thu, 12 Feb 2004 16:24:03 -0500
Subject: RR as a browser plugin?
Message-ID: <OF42B26958.697663DA-ON85256E38.0074A175@sealedair.com>

And there is also

http://www.softmac2000.com/

If you already own the Mac hardware, it is perfectly legal to emulate your 
Mac on another machine (although not running simultaneously). We had a 
68040 Mac Quadra that died years ago, so we used its ROM in an emulator. 
When you are porting HyperCard stacks to Revolution on a Windows machine, 
it is nice to be able to run HyperCard in OS 8.1 so I can visually see the 
differences.

Of course Apple would not be at all happy if OS X were being emulated.

~Roger

> Sure there is!
> 
> http://www.maconlinux.org/
> 
> Among others.
> 
>> ummm.... there is no such thing as 'Mac Emulation Software' - Apple
>> would never license the firmware...and if I had such Draconian
>> requirements for a class, I'd change schools...


From stephenREVOLUTION at barncard.com  Thu Feb 12 16:42:27 2004
From: stephenREVOLUTION at barncard.com (Stephen Quinn Barncard)
Date: Thu, 12 Feb 2004 13:42:27 -0800
Subject: emulators
Message-ID: <p06020411bc51a2883cb5@[192.168.1.100]>

OK, Ok, if one wants to go through hoops to use this stuff. I just 
know I have old macs lying around that I can't give away that would 
be easier to use than buying into this emulator package, ROM cards, 
etc. And it's no good for OSX. I was wrong before... pre OS 9 
software is really dead; Apple's making sure it is going away fast.



>And there is also
>
>http://www.softmac2000.com/
>
>If you already own the Mac hardware, it is perfectly legal to emulate your
>Mac on another machine (although not running simultaneously). We had a
>68040 Mac Quadra that died years ago, so we used its ROM in an emulator.
>When you are porting HyperCard stacks to Revolution on a Windows machine,
>it is nice to be able to run HyperCard in OS 8.1 so I can visually see the
>differences.
>
>Of course Apple would not be at all happy if OS X were being emulated.
>
>~Roger
>
>>  Sure there is!
>>
>>  http://www.maconlinux.org/
>>
>  > Among others.
>>

From jperryl at ecs.fullerton.edu  Thu Feb 12 16:44:55 2004
From: jperryl at ecs.fullerton.edu (Judy Perry)
Date: Thu, 12 Feb 2004 13:44:55 -0800 (PST)
Subject: RR as a browser plugin?
In-Reply-To: <p0602040abc5199761c79@[192.168.1.100]>
Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.4.33.0402121344050.20416-100000@titan.ecs.fullerton.edu>

Actually, there is... I think it's called something like Basilisk...

Judy

On Thu, 12 Feb 2004, Stephen Quinn Barncard wrote:

> ummm.... there is no such thing as 'Mac Emulation Software' - Apple
> would never license the firmware...and if I had such Draconian
> requirements for a class, I'd change schools...
>
> >And universities... IT departments in universities can be just as
> >strange.  My professor, a mac user for a particular program
> >(Accordance), instead of being permitted to bring in his own
> >computer at his own expense was given a very very very bottom of the
> >barrel PC gray-box and some Mac emulation software.


From pixelbird at interisland.net  Thu Feb 12 16:58:33 2004
From: pixelbird at interisland.net (Ken Norris)
Date: Thu, 12 Feb 2004 13:58:33 -0800
Subject: OT: Village signing [was: RR as a browser plugin?]
In-Reply-To: <20040212081624.DA19D930484@mail.runrev.com>
Message-ID: <BC513709.4F1C%pixelbird@interisland.net>

Hi Alex,

> Date: Thu, 12 Feb 2004 01:15:36 -0700
> From: Alex Rice <alex at mindlube.com>
> Subject: Re: OT: Village signing [was: RR as a browser plugin?]

> I had a linguistics prof. in college who came to lecture extremely
> excited one day because he had seen a performance of _Jabberwocky_ in
> ASL. I can't even to begin to imagine...
> On Feb 11, 2004, at 11:41 PM, Ken Norris wrote:
-------------
Yeow! Me either. Boggles the mind...
-------------
>> I never knew that. I've been wanting to learn at least AMSLAN for a
>> long
>> time, but there are no teachers or solid learning sources on this
>> island, no
>> courses available.
> 
> Ken- sorry I shouldn't judge your circumstances. If you need a computer
> tutor you need a computer tutor!
-------------
Well, that's how it is right now. Never can tell down the road, though.
There was a teacher here once, but I think she left town.

About 15 years ago there was a HyperCard program that used drawings, like
most manuals I've seen, but it was still a little hard to follow, and IIRC,
no decent testing.

What might be cool is a series QT clips, words, phrases, and sentences. I
thought a program like that might be somewhere on Jacque's trail.

Ken N.


From revolution at jaedworks.com  Thu Feb 12 17:08:47 2004
From: revolution at jaedworks.com (Jeanne A. E. DeVoto)
Date: Thu, 12 Feb 2004 14:08:47 -0800
Subject: OT: Village signing [was: RR as a browser plugin?]
In-Reply-To: <402BD8F6.5020308@hyperactivesw.com>
References: <BC506014.4EFB%pixelbird@interisland.net>
 <402BD8F6.5020308@hyperactivesw.com>
Message-ID: <p06010231bc519f8e5f62@[10.0.1.3]>

At 1:50 PM -0600 2/12/04, J. Landman Gay wrote:
>On 2/12/04 12:41 AM, Ken Norris wrote:
>>Did you ever write a tutorial for learning it on the computer?
>
>No. I can't imagine the amount of work that would take. You can't 
>exactly write it down; it would all have to be videos.

I've seen an AMESLAN tutorial - in fact I think it was a HyperCard 
stack! - with pictures. Just the most basic of signs, though.
-- 
jeanne a. e. devoto ~ jaed at jaedworks.com
http://www.jaedworks.com

From revolution at jaedworks.com  Thu Feb 12 17:18:28 2004
From: revolution at jaedworks.com (Jeanne A. E. DeVoto)
Date: Thu, 12 Feb 2004 14:18:28 -0800
Subject: 10 bugs in 2 minutes time!
In-Reply-To: <A2AE5558-5D72-11D8-98B4-000A95DA60FA@adelphia.net>
References: <BC507847.3D386%ambassador@fourthworld.com>
 <A2AE5558-5D72-11D8-98B4-000A95DA60FA@adelphia.net>
Message-ID: <p0601022fbc519b5b6385@[10.0.1.3]>

At 10:46 AM -0500 2/12/04, Thomas McGrath III wrote:
>Is there a way to 'see' the scripts generated by the GM??
>
>I would like to learn some of it's tricks to hand script some objects.

The Geometry Manager doesn't exactly generate scripts. Instead, it 
sets custom properties on objects that have geometry, then uses a 
resizeStack handler in a backscript to change object sizes and 
placement based on the GM custom properties.

As Richard says, you can take a look at the backscript for ideas: 
click the Backscripts button in the message box (second button from 
the right), and make sure the "Show Revolution UI" checkbox at the 
bottom is checked. If you double-click "revGeometryBack" you'll see 
that backscript.
-- 
jeanne a. e. devoto ~ jaed at jaedworks.com
http://www.jaedworks.com

From helloc66 at hotmail.com  Thu Feb 12 17:24:15 2004
From: helloc66 at hotmail.com (Jeremy Smith)
Date: Thu, 12 Feb 2004 22:24:15 +0000
Subject: emulators
Message-ID: <BAY10-F104bfMMUKiiw0001bdcf@hotmail.com>

Stay away from emulators inc. (emulators.com) and any softmac product. They 
are notorius for ripping off the community, the author is the equilvent of 
Dr. Derek Smart :D Although, he does have fusion PC, purchased from a 
leading company in macintosh emulation, it's free and a hundred times better 
than softmac. Although it is a dos application....

Otherwise, there is a new PowerPC emulator around, it's only in early stages 
but you are able to run a few things. It requires linux and can be found on 
source forge, I'm not on my computer at the moment and cant think of the 
name....

I'm sure it runs OS 9, but I don't think it runs 10/X... Since it's only in 
alpha stages thats to be expected, but if you were ever tracking the mac 
emulation scene, the power pc emulator was promised 5 years ago.. I'm just 
so glad that it's finally here, abit incomplete but still!! :D




>From: Stephen Quinn Barncard <stephenREVOLUTION at barncard.com>
>Reply-To: How to use Revolution <use-revolution at lists.runrev.com>
>To: How to use Revolution <use-revolution at lists.runrev.com>
>Subject: Re: emulators
>Date: Thu, 12 Feb 2004 13:42:27 -0800
>
>OK, Ok, if one wants to go through hoops to use this stuff. I just know I 
>have old macs lying around that I can't give away that would be easier to 
>use than buying into this emulator package, ROM cards, etc. And it's no 
>good for OSX. I was wrong before... pre OS 9 software is really dead; 
>Apple's making sure it is going away fast.
>
>
>
>>And there is also
>>
>>http://www.softmac2000.com/
>>
>>If you already own the Mac hardware, it is perfectly legal to emulate your
>>Mac on another machine (although not running simultaneously). We had a
>>68040 Mac Quadra that died years ago, so we used its ROM in an emulator.
>>When you are porting HyperCard stacks to Revolution on a Windows machine,
>>it is nice to be able to run HyperCard in OS 8.1 so I can visually see the
>>differences.
>>
>>Of course Apple would not be at all happy if OS X were being emulated.
>>
>>~Roger
>>
>>>  Sure there is!
>>>
>>>  http://www.maconlinux.org/
>>>
>>  > Among others.
>>>
>_______________________________________________
>use-revolution mailing list
>use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
>http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution

_________________________________________________________________
Get less junk mail with ninemsn Premium. Click here  
http://ninemsn.com.au/premium/landing.asp


From vokey at uleth.ca  Thu Feb 12 17:39:12 2004
From: vokey at uleth.ca (Dr.John R.Vokey)
Date: Thu, 12 Feb 2004 15:39:12 -0700
Subject: Mac emulation
In-Reply-To: <20040212220938.F0ACF93031C@mail.runrev.com>
References: <20040212220938.F0ACF93031C@mail.runrev.com>
Message-ID: <477706E0-5DAC-11D8-BEC9-003065A23C50@uleth.ca>

One of the more reliable emulators is vMac < http://www.vmac.org/>.  
Here's a description:
  "vMac is a Macintosh emulator that currently emulates a Motorola 68000 
based Apple Macintosh Plus. A ROM image from a Plus is required, we 
plan to implement other 68000 machines, such as SEs and II series. 
Currently System 7.5.5 is the latest vMac can boot, which is the latest 
System a real MacPlus can boot. vMac runs in black an white, a larger 
screen and color is the next thing we are working on. That's right, 
vMac currently works and boots! All you need is a ROM image from a 
MacPlus (utilities and directions provided), or a MacPlus ROM set on a 
Gemulator ROM board (for Windows and UNIX ports) from  Emulators Inc. 
and your Windows, DOS, UNIX, OS/2, or NeXT machine can run vMac!"

   vMac for OS X is available here: 
<http://www.bannister.org/software/vmac.htm>  I use it all the time to 
run old software that won't work even in Classic.
--
John


From chrism at lumin.us  Thu Feb 12 17:50:33 2004
From: chrism at lumin.us (Christopher Mitchell)
Date: Thu, 12 Feb 2004 16:50:33 -0600
Subject: RR as a browser plugin?
In-Reply-To: <p0602040fbc519f758434@[192.168.1.100]>
References: <p0602040fbc519f758434@[192.168.1.100]>
Message-ID: <DDD5BDFF-5DAD-11D8-88AE-000393B64EDC@lumin.us>

I don't know where the original message went to this, but there is 
emulation software that emulates a 68k environment, so installing a 
classic system would work.  I know this, because I've installed system 
8 on my p4 laptop before.  Was it fun? no, but it worked.  Basilisk ][. 
  enjoy all ye daring!

http://www.uni-mainz.de/~bauec002/B2Main.html

And it wasn't a requirement for a class, but for his office machine, 
which makes even less sense.

Yours,
Chris

On Feb 12, 2004, at 3:25 PM, Stephen Quinn Barncard wrote:

> But it's under Linux/PPC! If I had a Power PC processor, why bother, 
> I'd just run Mac OS.
>
>
>> Sure there is!
>>
>> http://www.maconlinux.org/
>>
>> Among others.
>>
>>> ummm.... there is no such thing as 'Mac Emulation Software' - Apple 
>>> would never license the firmware...and if I had such Draconian 
>>> requirements for a class, I'd change schools...
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> use-revolution mailing list
>> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>


From JonathanC at ag.nsw.gov.au  Thu Feb 12 17:53:18 2004
From: JonathanC at ag.nsw.gov.au (JonathanC at ag.nsw.gov.au)
Date: Fri, 13 Feb 2004 09:53:18 +1100
Subject: Styled text challenge...
In-Reply-To: <20040211175256.60674930276@mail.runrev.com>
Message-ID: <OFC4C0DC98.87239AE2-ONCA256E38.00757ABB-CA256E38.007D87A8@ag.nsw.gov.au>

xbury.<cs at clearstream.com> wrote on Wed, 11 Feb 2004 16:39:48 +0100:

> Other than parsing completely out the html code, you would assume that
> 
> set the RTFText of fld "text" to the HTMLText of fld "html"
> 
> converts html to styled text... BUT IT DOESN'T! 
> 
> There doesn't seem to be any other language features for this purpose.

And then a little later (18:17:44 +0100):
 
> I'm not sure if i was clear,
> I want to convert HTML text in fld "HTML" to RTF in fld "TEXT"
> 
> But I'm practically giving up, this is too much hassle, ...

I have an EXTREMELY simple one-card HTML <-> Styled text convertor stack 
that works like this:
2 fields: "Styled Text" & "HTML"
2 buttons: "Styled text -> HTML" & "HTML -> Styled text"

Script of button "Styled text -> HTML":
on mouseUp
  put the htmlText of fld "Styled Text" into fld "HTML"
end mouseUp

Script of button "HTML -> Styled text":
on mouseUp
  set the htmlText of fld "Styled Text" to fld "HTML"
end mouseUp

Isn't this second button doing what you want? 
I assume you don't want the RTF CODE (e.g. 
  {\rtf1\mac\ansicpg10000\cocoartf102
  {\fonttbl\f0\fnil\fcharset77 Verdana-Bold;\f1\fswiss\fcharset77 
ArialMT;\f2\fnil\fcharset77 Verdana;
  }
  ...etc. etc. }
just the HTML code to DISPLAY as it's meant to (except for stuff like 
tables).

Regards,

Jonathan Cooper
Manager of Information / Website
Art Gallery of New South Wales
Sydney, Australia
http://www.artgallery.nsw.gov.au

This e-mail message is intended only for the addressee(s) and contains 
information which may be confidential.  If you are not the intended 
recipient please advise the sender by return email, do not use or disclose 
the contents, and delete the message and any attachments from your system. 
 Unless specifically indicated, this email does not constitute formal 
advice or commitment by the sender or the Art Gallery of NSW  (ABN 24 934 
492 575) or its related entities.

From pixelbird at interisland.net  Thu Feb 12 17:51:35 2004
From: pixelbird at interisland.net (Ken Norris)
Date: Thu, 12 Feb 2004 14:51:35 -0800
Subject: use-revolution Digest, Vol 5, Issue 116
In-Reply-To: <20040212110632.A4C499304A3@mail.runrev.com>
Message-ID: <BC514376.4F1D%pixelbird@interisland.net>

Hi Richmond,

> Date: Thu, 12 Feb 2004 04:37:45 -0500
> From: "Mathewson" <richmond at mail.maclaunch.com>
> Subject: Intelligent Agents......
> 
> I am in the process of submitting a Master's proposal at
> the University if Abertay with a view to doing research
> into intelligent agents for teaching xTalk to
> teachers......
-----------
Interesting idea...have you looked at the PAN:

<http://pan.uqam.ca/cgi-bin/usemod/wiki.pl?HomePage>
-----------
> I am at present looking for a copy of 'Eager', an IA
> developed for HyperCard........
-----------
At the above site (have fun) there is a page you might miss containing a
demo of expert systems:

<http://pan.uqam.ca/cgi-bin/usemod/wiki.pl?Stacks_-_AI>

...Also, somewhere in there is a reference to some stuff done with
CLIPS-like algorithms in Rev, but I haven't found them (I notice some
projects exist such that you'd never guess what they are by their name ;-))

<http://www.ghg.net/clips/WhatIsCLIPS.html>

...used by NASA and other government agencies since the '80's.

Also, although it's geared to building courseware without 'programming'
skills (meaning writing code I presume), there isn't any reason Preceptor
Tools couldn't be use to teach code, if you look it over:

<http://www.runrev.com/company/pressreleases/20.html>

Putting it all together for a Master's Thesis has all the earmarks of a
truly challenging project.

Let us know what you come up with.

Speaking of that, I think I'll post my own dream again.

All the best,
Ken N.


From James.Cass at sealedair.com  Thu Feb 12 17:49:51 2004
From: James.Cass at sealedair.com (James.Cass at sealedair.com)
Date: Thu, 12 Feb 2004 17:49:51 -0500
Subject: Mac emulation
In-Reply-To: <477706E0-5DAC-11D8-BEC9-003065A23C50@uleth.ca>
Message-ID: <OF31264464.73AF1B7F-ON85256E38.007D4FBE-85256E38.007E143F@sealedair.com>

This is kind of cool.  A Mac emulator for the Zaurus handheld!
http://www.mmhart.com/macz.htm

-James





Dr.John R.Vokey <vokey at uleth.ca>
Sent by: use-revolution-bounces at lists.runrev.com
02/12/04 05:39 PM
Please respond to How to use Revolution
 
        To:     use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
        cc: 
        Subject:        Mac emulation


One of the more reliable emulators is vMac < http://www.vmac.org/>.
Here's a description:
"vMac is a Macintosh emulator that currently emulates a Motorola 68000
based Apple Macintosh Plus. A ROM image from a Plus is required, we
plan to implement other 68000 machines, such as SEs and II series.
Currently System 7.5.5 is the latest vMac can boot, which is the latest
System a real MacPlus can boot. vMac runs in black an white, a larger
screen and color is the next thing we are working on. That's right,
vMac currently works and boots! All you need is a ROM image from a
MacPlus (utilities and directions provided), or a MacPlus ROM set on a
Gemulator ROM board (for Windows and UNIX ports) from  Emulators Inc.
and your Windows, DOS, UNIX, OS/2, or NeXT machine can run vMac!"

vMac for OS X is available here:
<http://www.bannister.org/software/vmac.htm>  I use it all the time to
run old software that won't work even in Classic.
--
John

_______________________________________________
use-revolution mailing list
use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution

From pixelbird at interisland.net  Thu Feb 12 18:08:09 2004
From: pixelbird at interisland.net (Ken Norris)
Date: Thu, 12 Feb 2004 15:08:09 -0800
Subject: Exocet dreams; not the missile but...
In-Reply-To: <20040212110632.A4C499304A3@mail.runrev.com>
Message-ID: <BC514759.4F1E%pixelbird@interisland.net>

Howdy ,

I just thought I'd post this for kicks.

Regardless of programming IDEs and language models (although Rev may well be
one of the best for it), here is my dream:

Personally, someday I want to build a complete set of exocet programming
tools with a comprehensive bot which can be used by the disabled to create
personalized software tools to meet their own needs for creating yet more
tools. 

The idea is to keep the thing homing in on a user's individual needs and
offering possible solutions in the form of preprogrammed startup objects and
modules they can assemble, reassemble, and modify, with as little outside
help as possible. With these basics it would hopefully open up the world to
their creativity, productivity, and independence like never before.

If I were headed for a degree, that would be my thesis model, but I may be
getting too old for that, so I'll just chip away at it a little at a time
'til I can't anymore.

All the best
Ken N.


From 3mcgrath at adelphia.net  Thu Feb 12 18:08:15 2004
From: 3mcgrath at adelphia.net (Thomas McGrath III)
Date: Thu, 12 Feb 2004 18:08:15 -0500
Subject: RR as a browser plugin?
In-Reply-To: <BC50F033.3D3F6%ambassador@fourthworld.com>
References: <BC50F033.3D3F6%ambassador@fourthworld.com>
Message-ID: <5664C382-5DB0-11D8-928B-000A95DA60FA@adelphia.net>

Richard,

This is logic that I can understand. I see what you are saying now and 
your other point about 'if' a plugin were ever developed down the road 
I would be in a position to re-use my experiences to empower myself.

I guess that really is the point. Since I have not implemented 
your/Rev's approach, I don't have enough knowledge to judge whether or 
not I can get what I want done NOW with what we have. So if i were to 
start down this road I might find other ways around what I was used to 
doing and might even find it more useful. :-)

Thanks,

Almost a full convert,

Tom


On Feb 12, 2004, at 11:56 AM, Richard Gaskin wrote:

>
> That's all I'm trying to accomplish here:  when you identify a need 
> you can
> go two ways to solve it, finding a way to satisfy that need today or
> defining the problem in terms that require things beyond your control 
> and
> which may never actually come to pass.  Choosing the latter is less 
> likely
> to get results if doing the former can get the job done.

Macintosh PowerBook G-4 OSX 10.3.1, OS 9.2.2, 1.25 GHz, 512MB RAM, Rev 
2.1.2


Advanced Media Group
Thomas J McGrath III	? 2003 ?	3mcgrath at adelphia.net
220 Drake Road, Bethel Park, PA 15102




From 3mcgrath at adelphia.net  Thu Feb 12 18:09:03 2004
From: 3mcgrath at adelphia.net (Thomas McGrath III)
Date: Thu, 12 Feb 2004 18:09:03 -0500
Subject: Drawers size
In-Reply-To: <B004CE8E-5D77-11D8-A4D8-000A27B49A96@major-k.de>
References: <28123455-5D76-11D8-98B4-000A95DA60FA@adelphia.net>
	<B004CE8E-5D77-11D8-A4D8-000A27B49A96@major-k.de>
Message-ID: <7370C88A-5DB0-11D8-928B-000A95DA60FA@adelphia.net>

Klaus,

I wasn't in the commode but, the way I went about it did not seem to 
work. So I was hoping that some one with a bit more experience than me 
had done it. I don't need someone to write the damn thing for me, just 
to tell me it's doable and maybe a clue or two. Then I will pursue it 
to the full extents of my abilities.

Thank you


Tom

On Feb 12, 2004, at 11:22 AM, Klaus Major wrote:

> Hi Thomas McGrath III,
>
>> To anyone,
>>
>> Also, can I set the size of a drawer to any size? right now it seems 
>> it is the same size as my parent stack?????
>
> Why don't you just test it out and tell us afterwards? ;-)
>
> But don't forget the psychological impact that might have on the 
> user!!!
>
> I, personally, would probably p... my pants, if the drawer i just 
> pulled out of
> my commode is obviously BIGGER than the commode itself!!! :-D
>
>> Thanks to you all
>>
>> Tom
>
> Regards
>
> Klaus Major
> klaus at major-k.de
> www.major-k.de
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>
>

Thomas J. McGrath III
SCS
1000 Killarney Dr.
Pittsburgh, PA 15234
412-885-8541


From 3mcgrath at adelphia.net  Thu Feb 12 18:14:55 2004
From: 3mcgrath at adelphia.net (Thomas McGrath III)
Date: Thu, 12 Feb 2004 18:14:55 -0500
Subject: itemDelimiter
In-Reply-To: <E419010E-5D7D-11D8-BF21-000A95859272@earthlink.net>
References: <E419010E-5D7D-11D8-BF21-000A95859272@earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <44CCB2C5-5DB1-11D8-928B-000A95DA60FA@adelphia.net>

Mark,

Wow, this is more than I expected. Thank you.

These functions seem to be the ticket for me. I will play with them and 
try to understand them and report back.

Thanks again,

Tom

On Feb 12, 2004, at 12:07 PM, Mark Brownell wrote:

> Thomas,
>
> Here are three functions for pulling tags out:
> What you might need is one of my Parallel Numerical Lineal Parsers:
>
> -- get the title
> -- put your HTML into tZap
> -- put PNLPgetElement("<title>", "</title>", tZap) into theTitle
>
> -- get the paragraphs in two steps
> -- put getPNLPelements("<p>", "</p>", tZap) into theParagraphArray
> -- put theParagraphArray[1] into parOne
> -- put theParagraphArray[2] into parTwo
>
> You can even get the attributes from this:
>> -- <BODY TEXT="#000000" BGCOLOR="#F8D0B8" LINK="#999999" 
>> VLINK="#000000" ALINK="#FF0000">
>
> -- put PNLPgetElement("<body", "</body>", tZap) into theBody
> -- put PNLPgetAttribute("TEXT", theBody) into theTEXTAttribute
> -- put PNLPgetAttribute("BGCOLOR", theBody) into theBGCOLORAttribute
>
> function PNLPgetElement tStTag, tEdTag, stngToSch
>   put empty into zapped
>   put the number of chars in tStTag into dChars
>   put offset(tStTag,stngToSch) into tNum1
>   put offset(tEdTag,stngToSch) into tNum2
>   if tNum1 < 1 then
>     return "error"
>     exit PNLPgetElement
>   end if
>   if tNum2 < 1 then
>     return "error"
>     exit PNLPgetElement
>   end if
>   put char (tNum1 + dChars) to (tNum2 - 1) of stngToSch into zapped
>   return zapped
> end PNLPgetElement
>
> -- put getPNLPelements("<record>", "</record>", tZap) into theArray
> function getPNLPelements tStartTag, tEndTag, StringToSearch
>   put empty into tArray
>   put 0 into tStart1
>   put 0 into tStart2
>   put 1 into tElementNum
>   put the number of chars in tStartTag into dChars
>   repeat
>     put offset(tStartTag,StringToSearch,tStart1) into tNum1
>     put (tNum1 + tStart1) into tStart1
>     if tNum1 < 1 then exit repeat
>     put offset(tEndTag,StringToSearch,tStart2) into tNum2
>     put (tNum2 + tStart2) into tStart2
>     if tNum2 < 1 then exit repeat
>     --if tNum2 < tNum1 then exit repeat
>     put char (tStart1 + dChars) to (tStart2 - 1) of StringToSearch 
> into zapped
>     put zapped into tArray[tElementNum]
>     add 1 to tElementNum
>   end repeat
>   return tArray
> end getPNLPelements
>
> -- put PNLPgetAttribute("name", tZap) into theAttribute
> function PNLPgetAttribute tAttribute, strngToSearch
>   put empty into zapA
>   put quote into Qx
>   put tAttribute & "=" & Qx into tAttributeX
>   put the number of chars in tAttributeX into dChars
>   put offset(tAttributeX,strngToSearch) into tNum1
>   if tNum1 < 1 then
>     return "error"
>     exit PNLPgetAttribute
>   end if
>   put tNum1 + 1 into tNum2
>   put offset(Qx,strngToSearch,tNum2) into tNum3
>   put offset("=",strngToSearch,tNum2) into tNum4
>   if tNum3 < 1 then
>     return "error"
>     exit PNLPgetAttribute
>   end if
>   if tNum4 < tNum3 then
>     return "error"
>     exit PNLPgetAttribute
>   end if
>   put char (tNum2 + 1) to (tNum3 - 1) of stngToSch into zapA
>   return zapA
> end PNLPgetAttribute
>
> Mark Brownell
>
> P.S. I would love a multi-character delimiter.
>
>
> On Thursday, February 12, 2004, at 05:10  AM, Thomas McGrath III wrote:
>
>> Hello everybody,
>>
>> I was wondering if the itemDelimiter can be more than one character? 
>> I mean instead of "," or ":" can it be "<!--display paragraphs-->" ?
>> If the answer is NO then can someone help me understand how to sift 
>> through the html below to just extract the title text and the 2 
>> paragraph texts? I know I can offset("<title>") field "HTML" but then 
>> what can I do to extract the text after that?
>> It may be obvious but for the life of me I can't 'see' it.
>> Thanks
>> TOm
>>
>> <html>
>> <head>
>> <title>Just for Today Meditation</title>
>> </head>
>> <BODY TEXT="#000000" BGCOLOR="#F8D0B8" LINK="#999999" VLINK="#000000" 
>> ALINK="#FF0000">
>> <!--calculate day of the year -->
>> <!-- numdays=datediff("d",firstday,now)+1 -->
>>  <!--display paragraphs-->
>>
>>    <p>Our fantasies and expectations about the future may be so 
>> extreme that, on our first date with someone, we find ourselves 
>> wondering which lawyer we'll use for the divorce. Almost every 
>> experience causes us to remember something from the past or begin 
>> projecting into the future. </p>
>>
>>    <!--display paragraphs-->
>>
>>    <p>At first, it's difficult to stay in the moment. It seems as 
>> though our minds won't stop. We have a hard time just enjoying 
>> ourselves. Each time we realize that our thoughts are not focused on 
>> what's happening right now, we can pray and ask a loving God to help 
>> us get out of ourselves. If we regret the past, we make amends by 
>> living differently today; if we dread the future, we work on living 
>> responsibly today. </p>
>>
>> </body></html>
>> Thomas J McGrath III
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>
>

Thomas J. McGrath III
SCS
1000 Killarney Dr.
Pittsburgh, PA 15234
412-885-8541


From ambassador at fourthworld.com  Thu Feb 12 18:16:48 2004
From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin)
Date: Thu, 12 Feb 2004 15:16:48 -0800
Subject: RR as a browser plugin?
In-Reply-To: <5664C382-5DB0-11D8-928B-000A95DA60FA@adelphia.net>
Message-ID: <BC51495F.3D479%ambassador@fourthworld.com>

Thomas McGrath III wrote:

> On Feb 12, 2004, at 11:56 AM, Richard Gaskin wrote:
>> 
>> That's all I'm trying to accomplish here:  when you identify a need
>> you can go two ways to solve it, finding a way to satisfy that need
>> today or defining the problem in terms that require things beyond
>> your control and which may never actually come to pass.  Choosing
>> the latter is less likely to get results if doing the former can
>> get the job done.
>
> This is logic that I can understand. I see what you are saying now and
> your other point about 'if' a plugin were ever developed down the road
> I would be in a position to re-use my experiences to empower myself.

Not necessarilly that you wouldn't have the experience -- lord knows that
with a mind like yours there's no end to what you could accomplish.

It's more of an encouragement to jump into the now:  there's so much that
can be done for solving real-world problems with Rev as it is today that it
just seems much more exciting than holding off for a future possibility.

And when it comes to browser plugins, I haven't met a client yet whose eyes
don't light up when I describe the things we can do beyond the browser.

-- 
 Richard Gaskin 
 Fourth World Media Corporation
 ___________________________________________________________
 Ambassador at FourthWorld.com       http://www.FourthWorld.com


From pixelbird at interisland.net  Thu Feb 12 18:23:21 2004
From: pixelbird at interisland.net (Ken Norris)
Date: Thu, 12 Feb 2004 15:23:21 -0800
Subject: OT: Village signing [was: RR as a browser plugin?]
In-Reply-To: <20040212195057.D1F799302C2@mail.runrev.com>
Message-ID: <BC514AE9.4F1F%pixelbird@interisland.net>

Hi Jacque,

> Date: Thu, 12 Feb 2004 13:50:14 -0600
> From: "J. Landman Gay" <jacque at hyperactivesw.com>
> Subject: Re: OT: Village signing [was: RR as a browser plugin?]
> 
> On 2/12/04 12:41 AM, Ken Norris wrote:
> 
>> I never knew that. I've been wanting to learn at least AMSLAN for a long
>> time, but there are no teachers or solid learning sources on this island, no
>> courses available.
>> 
>> Did you ever write a tutorial for learning it on the computer?
> 
> No. I can't imagine the amount of work that would take. You can't
> exactly write it down; it would all have to be videos.
------------
There once was a HC stack with drawings similar to most workbooks I've seen.
Not well known, but I borrowed disks and had it on a Mac SE at work (though
no one else knew it) back in '89. I found it a little difficult to work
with, so I kind of gave up when my deaf tutor left the hill (Lake Tahoe).

I'm not asking you to do it, I just wanted to know.

Seems relatively straightforward. So what would it take to map out a
syllabus, sit down in front of an iSight and spend 5-10 minutes or so a day
on it, just collecting clips?

Not Jabberwocky, though ;-)

Ken N.



From 3mcgrath at adelphia.net  Thu Feb 12 18:30:26 2004
From: 3mcgrath at adelphia.net (Thomas McGrath III)
Date: Thu, 12 Feb 2004 18:30:26 -0500
Subject: OT: Village signing [was: RR as a browser plugin?]
In-Reply-To: <402BD8F6.5020308@hyperactivesw.com>
References: <BC506014.4EFB%pixelbird@interisland.net>
	<402BD8F6.5020308@hyperactivesw.com>
Message-ID: <701E678F-5DB3-11D8-928B-000A95DA60FA@adelphia.net>

Or quicktime VR in object mode!!
There was an old sample vr that showed a finger accessing a touchtone 
phone that came with Quicktime VR toolkit 1.0
Maybe a bunch of image captures of the pieces(hand configurations) that 
make up a sign and then piece them together. Of course I just thought 
about the arm movements.... darn... Well you might be able to do that 
too. I would weigh that against the video method and see which would 
take more time/money/effort.

Oh well

tom

On Feb 12, 2004, at 2:50 PM, J. Landman Gay wrote:

> On 2/12/04 12:41 AM, Ken Norris wrote:
>
>> I never knew that. I've been wanting to learn at least AMSLAN for a 
>> long
>> time, but there are no teachers or solid learning sources on this 
>> island, no
>> courses available.
>> Did you ever write a tutorial for learning it on the computer?
>
> No. I can't imagine the amount of work that would take. You can't 
> exactly write it down; it would all have to be videos.
>
>
> -- 
> Jacqueline Landman Gay         |     jacque at hyperactivesw.com
> HyperActive Software           |     http://www.hyperactivesw.com
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>
>

Thomas J. McGrath III
SCS
1000 Killarney Dr.
Pittsburgh, PA 15234
412-885-8541


From 3mcgrath at adelphia.net  Thu Feb 12 18:41:39 2004
From: 3mcgrath at adelphia.net (Thomas McGrath III)
Date: Thu, 12 Feb 2004 18:41:39 -0500
Subject: itemDelimiter
In-Reply-To: <BC5129EE.2DC9%jmac@consensustech.com>
References: <BC5129EE.2DC9%jmac@consensustech.com>
Message-ID: <00D6F973-5DB5-11D8-928B-000A95DA60FA@adelphia.net>

Wow Jim,

Either I asked the right question ";-)" or everyone has spent some time 
thinking this through. I did not expect such great answers and great 
detailed answers to this. I sure feel lucky.........

Thanks again,

I am going to go through this again in a stack and try out the 
different approaches to see how they work and which ones have different 
benefits. I hope to pass this learning experience on to others like you 
are doing with me. This is beautiful.

Great day,

Tom

On Feb 12, 2004, at 4:02 PM, Jim MacConnell wrote:

> Tom,
>
> --- sure you have multiple answers by now but I'm just now having a 
> minute
> --- Also no sleep last night so long winded.. Will refrain in future 
> but
> --- I've done this already so here goes... Btw Untested

Thomas J. McGrath III
SCS
1000 Killarney Dr.
Pittsburgh, PA 15234
412-885-8541


From gizmotron at earthlink.net  Thu Feb 12 18:44:21 2004
From: gizmotron at earthlink.net (Mark Brownell)
Date: Thu, 12 Feb 2004 15:44:21 -0800
Subject: itemDelimiter
In-Reply-To: <44CCB2C5-5DB1-11D8-928B-000A95DA60FA@adelphia.net>
Message-ID: <614F1C42-5DB5-11D8-BB6D-000A95859272@earthlink.net>


On Thursday, February 12, 2004, at 03:14  PM, Thomas McGrath III wrote:

> Mark,
>
> Wow, this is more than I expected. Thank you.
>
> These functions seem to be the ticket for me. I will play with them 
> and try to understand them and report back.
>
> Thanks again,
>
> Tom

You're welcome.

If you have troubles determining how many paragraphs there are in a 
paragraph array then try this:
   -----------------------
   put 1 into countNum
   repeat
     put theParagraphArray[countNum] into zap
     if zap = empty then
       put (countNum - 1) into timesP
       exit repeat
     end if
     add 1 to countNum
   end repeat
   -- timesP now contains the number of <p>...</p> sets that where found.
   -----------------------

Mark


From 3mcgrath at adelphia.net  Thu Feb 12 18:48:42 2004
From: 3mcgrath at adelphia.net (Thomas McGrath III)
Date: Thu, 12 Feb 2004 18:48:42 -0500
Subject: itemDelimiter
In-Reply-To: <15CFFFF9-5DA1-11D8-AC99-000393C4760A@mindlube.com>
References: <59005CE6-5D5D-11D8-9501-000393AA08D2@qldlearning.com>
	<15CFFFF9-5DA1-11D8-AC99-000393C4760A@mindlube.com>
Message-ID: <FD06147B-5DB5-11D8-928B-000A95DA60FA@adelphia.net>

Brian,

Actually I don't have control over it. It is produced as an .asp file 
and i have never worked with them before.

What i am doing is  a floating window that will go online daily and get 
the resulting html generated (daily) from their website and display it 
in that window. So they can have a daily message in a desktop app that 
reflects what they generate on their website.

I imagine a bubble or blurb that has the date/time and the title of the 
daily affirmation and when the mouse moves over the blurb then a 
drawer/palette will drop down with the text/paragraphs displayed in a 
scrolling field.

Features may include changing the window shape to predefined shapes and 
having a color theme to match. Maybe revSpeak the text and maybe a 
daily/weekly downloaded animated gif or something to make the blurb 
more interesting.


Thanks

Tom

On Feb 12, 2004, at 4:19 PM, Alex Rice wrote:

>
> On Feb 12, 2004, at 6:14 AM, Brian Yennie wrote:
>
>> You've got a couple options (at least):
>>
>> 1) Use regex, see matchText and match on something like 
>> "<text>(.*)</text>"
>> 2) Use offset(), as you imagined, something like:
>>
> Also, if the data source is under your control, you can produce XHTML 
> (html but stricter), and then treat it as XML and use revXML* 
> functions.
>
> --
> Alex Rice | Mindlube Software | http://mindlube.com
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>
>

Thomas J. McGrath III
SCS
1000 Killarney Dr.
Pittsburgh, PA 15234
412-885-8541


From 3mcgrath at adelphia.net  Thu Feb 12 19:05:54 2004
From: 3mcgrath at adelphia.net (Thomas McGrath III)
Date: Thu, 12 Feb 2004 19:05:54 -0500
Subject: Exocet dreams; not the missile but...
In-Reply-To: <BC514759.4F1E%pixelbird@interisland.net>
References: <BC514759.4F1E%pixelbird@interisland.net>
Message-ID: <64501407-5DB8-11D8-928B-000A95DA60FA@adelphia.net>

Ken, You know I applaud your efforts already with working with the 
disabled on 'your little island'. I too find it to be the most 
rewarding thin that I do, aside from maybe my art work which I use to 
open everyones eyes to the beauty and magnificance around us.

This is a very interesting idea. I am curious, what types of objects 
might these be? Just a few more examples, please?
Do you have a list started with 'personalized software tool' ideas?
Do you have a list started with 'their needs' ideas?

I am truly curious.

Tom

On Feb 12, 2004, at 6:08 PM, Ken Norris wrote:

>  I want to build a complete set of exocet programming
> tools with a comprehensive bot which can be used by the disabled to 
> create
> personalized software tools to meet their own needs for creating yet 
> more
> tools.
>
> The idea is to keep the thing homing in on a user's individual needs 
> and
> offering possible solutions in the form of preprogrammed startup 
> objects and
> modules they can assemble, reassemble, and modify, with as little 
> outside
> help as possible. With these basics it would hopefully open up the 
> world to
> their creativity, productivity, and independence like never before.

Macintosh PowerBook G-4 OSX 10.3.1, OS 9.2.2, 1.25 GHz, 512MB RAM, Rev 
2.1.2


Advanced Media Group
Thomas J McGrath III	? 2003 ?	3mcgrath at adelphia.net
220 Drake Road, Bethel Park, PA 15102




From pixelbird at interisland.net  Thu Feb 12 19:14:09 2004
From: pixelbird at interisland.net (Ken Norris)
Date: Thu, 12 Feb 2004 16:14:09 -0800
Subject: hypercard virus
In-Reply-To: <20040212220939.107AA93032D@mail.runrev.com>
Message-ID: <BC5156D1.4F2C%pixelbird@interisland.net>

Hi Stephen,

> Date: Thu, 12 Feb 2004 13:00:22 -0800
> From: Stephen Quinn Barncard <stephenREVOLUTION at barncard.com>
> Subject: hypercard virus
> 
> Ha ha the hypercard 'virus' -- written in Hypertalk!!
> 
> there hasn't been a real mac virus of any kind for about 6 or 7
> years... I don't bother with any anti-virus software...I've got
> enough problems with spam clogs.
----------
I'm kind of guilty of that too (I do have some AV products onboard), but
someone I converse with who uses Windows reminded me that, while I may not
get a virus, I can still pass one.

It's really one of those "If you're not part of the solution, then you're
part of the problem" things.

Ken N.


From alex at mindlube.com  Thu Feb 12 19:25:32 2004
From: alex at mindlube.com (Alex Rice)
Date: Thu, 12 Feb 2004 17:25:32 -0700
Subject: Exocet dreams; not the missile but...
In-Reply-To: <BC514759.4F1E%pixelbird@interisland.net>
References: <BC514759.4F1E%pixelbird@interisland.net>
Message-ID: <22215C3B-5DBB-11D8-AB1C-000393C4760A@mindlube.com>


On Feb 12, 2004, at 4:08 PM, Ken Norris wrote:
> Personally, someday I want to build a complete set of exocet 
> programming
> tools with a comprehensive bot which can be used by the disabled to 
> create
> personalized software tools to meet their own needs for creating yet 
> more
> tools.

What is exocet?

If you never have done so, play with some Lego Mindstorms. You'll 
probably get some ideas.

There is a Lego robotics lab at the new Explora in Albuquerque, NM. My 
4 year old son learned to program a bot in < 45 minutes! It's all 
procedural, iconic and point-n-click!

--
Alex Rice | Mindlube Software | http://mindlube.com


From pixelbird at interisland.net  Thu Feb 12 19:52:48 2004
From: pixelbird at interisland.net (Ken Norris)
Date: Thu, 12 Feb 2004 16:52:48 -0800
Subject: OT: Village signing [was: RR as a browser plugin?]
In-Reply-To: <20040213001447.1A2649302EB@mail.runrev.com>
Message-ID: <BC515FE0.4F34%pixelbird@interisland.net>

on 2/12/04 4:14 PM, use-revolution-request at lists.runrev.com at
use-revolution-request at lists.runrev.com wrote:

> Date: Thu, 12 Feb 2004 18:30:26 -0500
> From: Thomas McGrath III <3mcgrath at adelphia.net>
> Subject: Re: OT: Village signing [was: RR as a browser plugin?]
> 
> Or quicktime VR in object mode!!
> There was an old sample vr that showed a finger accessing a touchtone
> phone that came with Quicktime VR toolkit 1.0
> Maybe a bunch of image captures of the pieces(hand configurations) that
> make up a sign and then piece them together. Of course I just thought
> about the arm movements.... darn... Well you might be able to do that
> too. I would weigh that against the video method and see which would
> take more time/money/effort.
------------
Yes, I already thought of that, but I think a set of animation parts might
work better than QTVR.

However, I thought VR would be better for viewing the signs from a different
angle, i.e, a QTVR movie could swing around and show the sign from the
signer's point of view instead of the "audience" (if you will) point of
view, which is the most common way of presenting the material, but doesn't
show formation from the side the signer sees it.

Otherwise, I came to the conclusion that just making video clips of a few
carefully articulated signs as time is available made more sense. Unless
someone comes up with funding to do it fulltime until the project is
finished.

The _big_ difference with writing it in Rev is, of course, interactivity,
which is next to useless on a straight video DVD, and totally useless on
tape.

You can go to any letter, word, phrase, or sentence, and replay the clip as
often as you like while practicing.

In fact, perhaps I could get with the producers of current video-based
instructional tapes and coax them into a deal to capture the video in clips
then go from there.

Off to the library...

Ken N.


From rpresender at earthlink.net  Thu Feb 12 20:27:02 2004
From: rpresender at earthlink.net (Robert Presender)
Date: Thu, 12 Feb 2004 17:27:02 -0800
Subject: Print Card snag
Message-ID: <B9DE522A-5DC3-11D8-ACEA-000393A19046@earthlink.net>

Thanks Alex and Rob for your input. Don't think 
revPrintField/revPrintText are options.
Your input sort of got my gray matter(what's left of it) back 
working(sort of).

Will try to script something in a repeat structure like:
print card -- scroll set to zero
--set the scroll to x
print card
--set the scroll to y
print card

Do you think this is feasible?

Regards .... Bob
rpresender at earthlink.net
http://home.earthlink.net/~rep.shareware


From stephenREVOLUTION at barncard.com  Thu Feb 12 20:41:04 2004
From: stephenREVOLUTION at barncard.com (Stephen Quinn Barncard)
Date: Thu, 12 Feb 2004 17:41:04 -0800
Subject: viruses
Message-ID: <p06020400bc51dadc7035@[192.168.1.100]>

That's not true AT ALL. The PC virus can't execute and 'read your 
address book' and go somewhere else on a Mac. There is no way (unless 
you're using a Windoze emulator and getting mail in it) .exe, .bat, 
.com, etc code can run in a PPC environment. It just ends up being a 
useless file in your attachments folder. You'd have to forward it 
intentionally to infect someone else. I dumped megabytes of this crap 
the other day. I've got my filters in Eudora to trash the email and 
attachments now...

There are some advantages of a niche platform! ha ha

>I'm kind of guilty of that too (I do have some AV products onboard), but
>someone I converse with who uses Windows reminded me that, while I may not
>get a virus, I can still pass one.
>
>Ken N.

From frank at backtalk.com  Thu Feb 12 21:01:30 2004
From: frank at backtalk.com (Frank Leahy)
Date: Fri, 13 Feb 2004 02:01:30 +0000
Subject: Intelligent Agents......
In-Reply-To: <20040212154717.B3A8593033D@mail.runrev.com>
Message-ID: <8A4097A7-5DC8-11D8-BC79-000A9580FCCE@backtalk.com>


On Thursday, February 12, 2004, at 03:47  PM, 
use-revolution-request at lists.runrev.com wrote:

> On 12/02/2004 10:37:45 AM use-revolution-bounces wrote:
>> I am in the process of submitting a Master's proposal at
>> the University if Abertay with a view to doing research
>> into intelligent agents for teaching xTalk to
>> teachers......
>>
>> I am at present looking for a copy of 'Eager', an IA
>> developed for HyperCard........
>>
>> Richmond Mathewson
>>

Richard,

As I recall Eager was done by Allen Cypher -- you can find his contact 
info on this page http://www.pliant.org/personal/Tom_Erickson/AHA.html

-- Frank


From jperryl at ecs.fullerton.edu  Thu Feb 12 21:11:12 2004
From: jperryl at ecs.fullerton.edu (Judy Perry)
Date: Thu, 12 Feb 2004 18:11:12 -0800 (PST)
Subject: OT: Village signing [was: RR as a browser plugin?]
In-Reply-To: <BC515FE0.4F34%pixelbird@interisland.net>
Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.4.33.0402121809530.29314-100000@titan.ecs.fullerton.edu>

For kids, make it into a game (hence, my Mr. Potatohead idea -- present
body parts to them -- the signs, that is -- and when they correctly
identify the sign at the assessment part, take them to a screen wherein
they can choose a particular version of that body part).

Judy

On Thu, 12 Feb 2004, Ken Norris wrote:

> The _big_ difference with writing it in Rev is, of course, interactivity,
> which is next to useless on a straight video DVD, and totally useless on
> tape.


From frank at backtalk.com  Thu Feb 12 21:28:23 2004
From: frank at backtalk.com (Frank Leahy)
Date: Fri, 13 Feb 2004 02:28:23 +0000
Subject: itemDelimiter
In-Reply-To: <20040213001447.3686D9302EE@mail.runrev.com>
Message-ID: <4C19925B-5DCC-11D8-BC79-000A9580FCCE@backtalk.com>


On Friday, February 13, 2004, at 12:14  AM, 
use-revolution-request at lists.runrev.com wrote:

> If you have troubles determining how many paragraphs there are in a
> paragraph array then try this:
>    -----------------------
>    put 1 into countNum
>    repeat
>      put theParagraphArray[countNum] into zap
>      if zap = empty then
>        put (countNum - 1) into timesP
>        exit repeat
>      end if
>      add 1 to countNum
>    end repeat
>    -- timesP now contains the number of <p>...</p> sets that where 
> found.
>    -----------------------

An easier way to get the number of paragraphs would be:

put the keys of theParagraphArray into theKeys
put the number of lines of theKeys into numParagraphs

-- Frank


From revolution at duncansoftware.com  Thu Feb 12 21:38:28 2004
From: revolution at duncansoftware.com (Stu Duncan)
Date: Thu, 12 Feb 2004 21:38:28 -0500
Subject: revCopyFolder progress bar
Message-ID: <000f01c3f1da$77ede5f0$1402a8c0@Dell8250>

I am copying 300 Megs of files to the users HD using the revCopyFolder
command. It works great but I need to create some sort of progress bar for
the user. Since the command does not appear to do any progress reporting,
how can I gauge the progress to provide visual feedback to the user?

Thanks Klaus for your earlier help with the "create alias" command. It was
just what I needed.

Stu



From rpresender at earthlink.net  Thu Feb 12 21:39:34 2004
From: rpresender at earthlink.net (Robert Presender)
Date: Thu, 12 Feb 2004 18:39:34 -0800
Subject: Print card snag
Message-ID: <DBA1F14E-5DCD-11D8-AB90-000393A19046@earthlink.net>

Found a solution to the problem (item 9 of issue 117, items 4,6,9 of 
issue 119)
in the message box:

answer printer --select landscape
set the vScroll of fld x of card y to zero
print card y
set the scroll of fld x of card y to 440 --makes the rest of the 
listfield visible
print card y
--etc depending on the height of the list field.

The result was two pages.  1st page with the top area fields and the 
list field up to 440.
the second page with the top area fields and text of the list field 
after 440.  Just what I wanted!

Regards .... Bob
rpresender at earthlink.net
http://home.earthlink.net/~rep.shareware


From pixelbird at interisland.net  Thu Feb 12 22:17:36 2004
From: pixelbird at interisland.net (Ken Norris)
Date: Thu, 12 Feb 2004 19:17:36 -0800
Subject: Windows appearance issues
In-Reply-To: <20040213001447.1A2649302EB@mail.runrev.com>
Message-ID: <BC5181CF.4F39%pixelbird@interisland.net>

Howdy again,

So, let me please understand a little more.

Will Rev follow and display appearance theme objects true to the Windows
system version onboard?

If so, are Windows' user prefs settings (like Silver with Pink) retrievable
at startup of a main stack?

Should I totally dispense with trying to emulate Windows appearance themes
and just go with totally custom scratch-made buttons?

Would it be bad form to emulate XP buttons (unless I don't have to worry
about it) that may easily end up on, say, a Millenium version?

Sorry, I just can't tell what to do with these issues. The program I'm
writing is for special purpose, but the only thing I know is that it will be
running on some kind of Win box.

TIA,
Ken N.


From kray at sonsothunder.com  Thu Feb 12 22:27:32 2004
From: kray at sonsothunder.com (Ken Ray)
Date: Thu, 12 Feb 2004 21:27:32 -0600
Subject: [ANN] RevZilla 1.1.1 Released
Message-ID: <00d201c3f1e1$547f7280$6601a8c0@LightningFlash>

Just a quick note to let you know that I've updated RevZilla to work
with the new Statuses and Resolutions of the new Bugzilla system, and
added a feature that allows you to see all of your unresolved bugs in
the My Bugs screen (displays UNCONFIRMED, PENDING, NEW, ASSIGNED and
REOPENED bugs). You can still access the bugs the "old" way (the way
Bugzilla currently does it: just the NEW, ASSIGNED and REOPENED ones) if
you like.

You can get it through RevNet or at:

  http://www.sonsothunder.com/devres/revolution/downloads/RevZilla.htm

Thanks,

Ken Ray
Sons of Thunder Software
Email: kray at sonsothunder.com
Web Site: http://www.sonsothunder.com/ 

P.S. Alex, I hope you're listening - at least this might hold you over
until we make the same changes to My Bugs in Bugzilla. :-)



From bvlahos at mac.com  Thu Feb 12 22:34:11 2004
From: bvlahos at mac.com (Bill Vlahos)
Date: Thu, 12 Feb 2004 19:34:11 -0800
Subject: Windows appearance issues
In-Reply-To: <BC5181CF.4F39%pixelbird@interisland.net>
References: <BC5181CF.4F39%pixelbird@interisland.net>
Message-ID: <7D5A52BA-5DD5-11D8-8039-0003936A2C42@mac.com>

I believe the next version of Rev will support Windows native 
appearance (like the Mac version does now). I think we are due for this 
new version soon.

Bill Vlahos

On Feb 12, 2004, at 7:17 PM, Ken Norris wrote:

> Howdy again,
>
> So, let me please understand a little more.
>
> Will Rev follow and display appearance theme objects true to the 
> Windows
> system version onboard?
>
> If so, are Windows' user prefs settings (like Silver with Pink) 
> retrievable
> at startup of a main stack?
>
> Should I totally dispense with trying to emulate Windows appearance 
> themes
> and just go with totally custom scratch-made buttons?
>
> Would it be bad form to emulate XP buttons (unless I don't have to 
> worry
> about it) that may easily end up on, say, a Millenium version?
>
> Sorry, I just can't tell what to do with these issues. The program I'm
> writing is for special purpose, but the only thing I know is that it 
> will be
> running on some kind of Win box.
>
> TIA,
> Ken N.
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution


From jacque at hyperactivesw.com  Thu Feb 12 23:13:57 2004
From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay)
Date: Thu, 12 Feb 2004 22:13:57 -0600
Subject: Drawers size
In-Reply-To: <7370C88A-5DB0-11D8-928B-000A95DA60FA@adelphia.net>
References: <28123455-5D76-11D8-98B4-000A95DA60FA@adelphia.net>
	<B004CE8E-5D77-11D8-A4D8-000A27B49A96@major-k.de>
	<7370C88A-5DB0-11D8-928B-000A95DA60FA@adelphia.net>
Message-ID: <402C4F05.6090405@hyperactivesw.com>

On 2/12/04 5:09 PM, Thomas McGrath III wrote:

> I wasn't in the commode but, the way I went about it did not seem to 
> work. So I was hoping that some one with a bit more experience than me 
> had done it.

>>> To anyone,
>>>
>>> Also, can I set the size of a drawer to any size? right now it seems 
>>> it is the same size as my parent stack?????

I think what Klaus was saying was just that you should be able to set 
the stack size normally and then open it with the "drawer" command -- 
except that the stack can't be larger than its parent or else it can't 
slide out properly. I haven't tested that, but it sounds right. I 
suspect Rev will resize a large stack before "drawering" it if it is 
originally too big.

So, just set the rect of the card to a size smaller than the parent 
stack and then open it using the "drawer" command and see what happens.

-- 
Jacqueline Landman Gay         |     jacque at hyperactivesw.com
HyperActive Software           |     http://www.hyperactivesw.com

From chipp at chipp.com  Thu Feb 12 23:20:04 2004
From: chipp at chipp.com (Chipp Walters)
Date: Thu, 12 Feb 2004 22:20:04 -0600
Subject: Windows appearance issues
In-Reply-To: <7D5A52BA-5DD5-11D8-8039-0003936A2C42@mac.com>
Message-ID: <GGEOJBEEGFHLDOFIMMPIGEKGGAAA.chipp@chipp.com>

Bill is right about the next version..

but, unlike Mac, many windows programs don't adhere exactly to the current
windows 'look and feel'. In fact, even Microsoft doesn't in their Office
Suite. So, it's not a big problem to go with the standard Windows 2000
look-and-feel (which is the default L-N-F for RR)

-Chipp



From 3mcgrath at adelphia.net  Thu Feb 12 23:21:57 2004
From: 3mcgrath at adelphia.net (Thomas McGrath III)
Date: Thu, 12 Feb 2004 23:21:57 -0500
Subject: Drawers size
In-Reply-To: <402C4F05.6090405@hyperactivesw.com>
References: <28123455-5D76-11D8-98B4-000A95DA60FA@adelphia.net>
	<B004CE8E-5D77-11D8-A4D8-000A27B49A96@major-k.de>
	<7370C88A-5DB0-11D8-928B-000A95DA60FA@adelphia.net>
	<402C4F05.6090405@hyperactivesw.com>
Message-ID: <295A58B4-5DDC-11D8-85F5-000A95DA60FA@adelphia.net>

Hi,

Well after misunderstanding what Klaus was saying I spent the last two 
hours trying to get it to be bigger than the parent window.
The window I am using is a non standard window, it is a shape. I wanted 
the drawer to come out the bottom of my floating window and that is not 
possible for some reason either. If I had understood that Klaus was 
saying it was not possible I would have given it up sooner.

Also, when the stack goes to WinXP (drawers don't work) the drawer 
becomes a window but the text field in it is see through ie I can see 
the window decorations but the inside is see through. Not good.

It looks like I will need to drop the drawer window idea and make it a 
palette with more control.

Thanks anyway,

Tom

On Feb 12, 2004, at 11:13 PM, J. Landman Gay wrote:

> On 2/12/04 5:09 PM, Thomas McGrath III wrote:
>
>> I wasn't in the commode but, the way I went about it did not seem to 
>> work. So I was hoping that some one with a bit more experience than 
>> me had done it.
>
>>>> To anyone,
>>>>
>>>> Also, can I set the size of a drawer to any size? right now it 
>>>> seems it is the same size as my parent stack?????
>
> I think what Klaus was saying was just that you should be able to set 
> the stack size normally and then open it with the "drawer" command -- 
> except that the stack can't be larger than its parent or else it can't 
> slide out properly. I haven't tested that, but it sounds right. I 
> suspect Rev will resize a large stack before "drawering" it if it is 
> originally too big.
>
> So, just set the rect of the card to a size smaller than the parent 
> stack and then open it using the "drawer" command and see what 
> happens.
>
> -- 
> Jacqueline Landman Gay         |     jacque at hyperactivesw.com
> HyperActive Software           |     http://www.hyperactivesw.com
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>
>

Thomas J. McGrath III
SCS
1000 Killarney Dr.
Pittsburgh, PA 15234
412-885-8541


From pixelbird at interisland.net  Thu Feb 12 23:24:22 2004
From: pixelbird at interisland.net (Ken Norris)
Date: Thu, 12 Feb 2004 20:24:22 -0800
Subject: use-revolution Digest, Vol 5, Issue 123
In-Reply-To: <20040213033447.9480A93018D@mail.runrev.com>
Message-ID: <BC519176.4F40%pixelbird@interisland.net>

on 2/12/04 7:34 PM, use-revolution-request at lists.runrev.com at
use-revolution-request at lists.runrev.com wrote:

> Date: Thu, 12 Feb 2004 17:25:32 -0700
> From: Alex Rice <alex at mindlube.com>
> Subject: Re: Exocet dreams; not the missile but...
> To: How to use Revolution <use-revolution at lists.runrev.com>
> Message-ID: <22215C3B-5DBB-11D8-AB1C-000393C4760A at mindlube.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed
> 
> 
> On Feb 12, 2004, at 4:08 PM, Ken Norris wrote:
>> Personally, someday I want to build a complete set of exocet
>> programming
>> tools with a comprehensive bot which can be used by the disabled to
>> create
>> personalized software tools to meet their own needs for creating yet
>> more
>> tools.
> 
> What is exocet?
> 
> If you never have done so, play with some Lego Mindstorms. You'll
> probably get some ideas.
> 
> There is a Lego robotics lab at the new Explora in Albuquerque, NM. My
> 4 year old son learned to program a bot in < 45 minutes! It's all
> procedural, iconic and point-n-click!


From pixelbird at interisland.net  Thu Feb 12 23:25:28 2004
From: pixelbird at interisland.net (Ken Norris)
Date: Thu, 12 Feb 2004 20:25:28 -0800
Subject: Sorry hit wrong button
In-Reply-To: <20040213033447.9480A93018D@mail.runrev.com>
Message-ID: <BC5191B8.4F41%pixelbird@interisland.net>

Ken N.


From jacque at hyperactivesw.com  Thu Feb 12 23:26:59 2004
From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay)
Date: Thu, 12 Feb 2004 22:26:59 -0600
Subject: OT: Village signing [was: RR as a browser plugin?]
In-Reply-To: <BC514AE9.4F1F%pixelbird@interisland.net>
References: <BC514AE9.4F1F%pixelbird@interisland.net>
Message-ID: <402C5213.8050809@hyperactivesw.com>

On 2/12/04 5:23 PM, Ken Norris wrote:

> I'm not asking you to do it, I just wanted to know.
> 
> Seems relatively straightforward. So what would it take to map out a
> syllabus, sit down in front of an iSight and spend 5-10 minutes or so a day
> on it, just collecting clips?

Sorry, I didn't mean to sound short. The problem with the static picture 
dictionaries is that you can't really see what the signs do, since by 
its nature, ASL is a dynamic, fluid language. It moves, and pictures 
don't. There's a nuance involved, and the meaning of a sign can change 
in a hundred ways depending on slight alterations in its production. So 
books and images serve as good reminders if you already know the signs, 
but they are not very good when learning from scratch.

The video idea would be better. It would still lack some nuance, but 
could work on a basic level.

If you do decide to make videos, better find a real deaf person. Except 
for the children of deaf parents, almost everyone else has a "hearing 
accent".

-- 
Jacqueline Landman Gay         |     jacque at hyperactivesw.com
HyperActive Software           |     http://www.hyperactivesw.com

From 3mcgrath at adelphia.net  Thu Feb 12 23:27:55 2004
From: 3mcgrath at adelphia.net (Thomas McGrath III)
Date: Thu, 12 Feb 2004 23:27:55 -0500
Subject: use-revolution Digest, Vol 5, Issue 123
In-Reply-To: <BC519176.4F40%pixelbird@interisland.net>
References: <BC519176.4F40%pixelbird@interisland.net>
Message-ID: <FEB6FA52-5DDC-11D8-85F5-000A95DA60FA@adelphia.net>

Well we know what Ken was doing at 7:34 PM.....

reading this email and hitting send instead of close...

I found it funny.

T

On Feb 12, 2004, at 11:24 PM, Ken Norris wrote:

> on 2/12/04 7:34 PM, use-revolution-request at lists.runrev.com at
> use-revolution-request at lists.runrev.com wrote:
>
>> Date: Thu, 12 Feb 2004 17:25:32 -0700
>> From: Alex Rice <alex at mindlube.com>
>> Subject: Re: Exocet dreams; not the missile but...
>> To: How to use Revolution <use-revolution at lists.runrev.com>
>> Message-ID: <22215C3B-5DBB-11D8-AB1C-000393C4760A at mindlube.com>
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed
>>
>>
>> On Feb 12, 2004, at 4:08 PM, Ken Norris wrote:
>>> Personally, someday I want to build a complete set of exocet
>>> programming
>>> tools with a comprehensive bot which can be used by the disabled to
>>> create
>>> personalized software tools to meet their own needs for creating yet
>>> more
>>> tools.
>>
>> What is exocet?
>>
>> If you never have done so, play with some Lego Mindstorms. You'll
>> probably get some ideas.
>>
>> There is a Lego robotics lab at the new Explora in Albuquerque, NM. My
>> 4 year old son learned to program a bot in < 45 minutes! It's all
>> procedural, iconic and point-n-click!
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>
>

Thomas J. McGrath III
SCS
1000 Killarney Dr.
Pittsburgh, PA 15234
412-885-8541


From 3mcgrath at adelphia.net  Thu Feb 12 23:31:11 2004
From: 3mcgrath at adelphia.net (Thomas McGrath III)
Date: Thu, 12 Feb 2004 23:31:11 -0500
Subject: use-revolution Digest, Vol 5, Issue 123
In-Reply-To: <BC519176.4F40%pixelbird@interisland.net>
References: <BC519176.4F40%pixelbird@interisland.net>
Message-ID: <735AF619-5DDD-11D8-85F5-000A95DA60FA@adelphia.net>


What I want to know is Lego Mindstorms controllable via 
Revolution?????????
I think it is in the serial realm.......

I know there is a Mac version out there last time I searched. I think 
it was an educational version.

I would love to play with Legos from my computer and Rev and X10.
Then I could have Rev react to environmental conditions and then 
control my little bots to do cool stuff......

Tom


>>
>> If you never have done so, play with some Lego Mindstorms. You'll
>> probably get some ideas.
>>
>> There is a Lego robotics lab at the new Explora in Albuquerque, NM. My
>> 4 year old son learned to program a bot in < 45 minutes! It's all
>> procedural, iconic and point-n-click!
>
>

Thomas J. McGrath III
SCS
1000 Killarney Dr.
Pittsburgh, PA 15234
412-885-8541


From dsc at swcp.com  Fri Feb 13 01:20:23 2004
From: dsc at swcp.com (Dar Scott)
Date: Thu, 12 Feb 2004 23:20:23 -0700
Subject: use-revolution Digest, Vol 5, Issue 123
In-Reply-To: <735AF619-5DDD-11D8-85F5-000A95DA60FA@adelphia.net>
Message-ID: <B50188A2-5DEC-11D8-B830-000A9567A3E6@swcp.com>


On Thursday, February 12, 2004, at 09:31 PM, Thomas McGrath III wrote:

> What I want to know is Lego Mindstorms controllable via 
> Revolution?????????

Yes.

Dar


From erikhans08 at yahoo.com  Fri Feb 13 01:21:18 2004
From: erikhans08 at yahoo.com (Erik Hansen)
Date: Thu, 12 Feb 2004 22:21:18 -0800 (PST)
Subject: English-like communications adventure with good man UDI
In-Reply-To: <20040212102335.12396.qmail@web60504.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <20040213062118.87165.qmail@web61108.mail.yahoo.com>


--- Jan Schenkel <janschenkel at yahoo.com> wrote:
> > >is the code in the code in MakeSMF.rev
> > proprietary?
> > 
> > Sorry, I didn't understand a meaning well.
> > I want you to say by different expression
> again.
> > 
> > A thing of specification of note-string(Cq
> Eq..)
> > is one part of HyperTalk.
> > I expanded it originally.
> > I have not seen it it being used besides
> > HyperCard.
> > 
> > All the rights of a script code 
> > of makeSMF abandon it.
> > You remodel it to like it and can use it.
==============================
> > help!
> > i am trying to communicate to UDI that
> > his stacks (downloaded from RunRev.com)
> > are dehilited in my "Open Stack..."
> > place. this is in the development IDE(?).
> > 
> > how do you distinguish a
> > standalone/distribution stack
> > from a "normal" stack?
> > 
> > if a person is willing to share the code,
> > then why make it a standalone?

> I'm assuming you have a Mac, and that when you
try to
> open the makeSMF.rev stack, it is grayed out in
the
> Open dialog box, and you can't select it.

yes

> This is probably caused by a lack of Type and
Creator
> codes in the file (this happens when a file
> comes from a PC)
> - you can either drop the stack's icon onto the
> Revolution icon _after_ you've started
> Revolution ;
> Revolution should open it, and then you can
> save it so
> that it remembers being a Revolution doc.
> - or you can use Sarah Reichelt's droplet,
> which you
> can download from the Rev Contributions section
> ;
> direct link :
>
<http://www.runrev.com/revolution/downloads/developerdownloads/Rev%20droplet.sit>

thank you Sarah Reichelt ('s droplet)
IT WORKED! the file opens,
and now i know what a droplet is.

> And although I can't speak for UDI, I interpret
his
> reply as : I made this based on the way you
> play sounds in HyperCard, and placed the source
doe in the
> public domain, so if you want to customise it,
go ahead.

hence "good soul UDI"

=====
erik at erikhansen.org    http://www.erikhansen.org

__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Finance: Get your refund fast by filing online.
http://taxes.yahoo.com/filing.html

From b.xavier at internet.lu  Fri Feb 13 01:33:07 2004
From: b.xavier at internet.lu (MisterX)
Date: Fri, 13 Feb 2004 07:33:07 +0100
Subject: Ann: DiscreteBrowser 1.1 (Was StealthBrowser) release
In-Reply-To: <735AF619-5DDD-11D8-85F5-000A95DA60FA@adelphia.net>
Message-ID: <ENEALNOCJBOOOHHCCEKNOEAOFNAA.b.xavier@internet.lu>

Thanks to all of you, here the release of a new and improved DiscreteBrowser
for runrev. It's not a great browser but it has the basic functions you
need. HTML Support is strictly for display, no forms or scripts or any fancy
stuff. Just a plain browser.

Version 1.1 fixes a few problems and adds a few functionalities.

No more need to jump to your browser to grab a page or text. And for those
with directors on their backs, there is a plain text browser to read your
news or blogs in peace. ;)

<http://monsieurx.com/modules.php?name=News&file=article&sid=137>

Those who are registered on MonsieurX.com can go here directly to download

<http://monsieurx.com/modules.php?name=Downloads&d_op=getit&lid=44>

If any of you want to share a script to launch a browser for MacOS or Linux,
Im interested for the community's benefit naturally!

There is one missing credit in this release which I will fix tonite. I might
add a google button for the missing net search.

Bugs and suggestions welcome as usual.

Enjoy!
Xavier

--
http://monsieurx.com


From pixelbird at interisland.net  Fri Feb 13 01:22:04 2004
From: pixelbird at interisland.net (Ken Norris)
Date: Thu, 12 Feb 2004 22:22:04 -0800
Subject: Exocet dreams; not the missile but...
In-Reply-To: <20040213033447.9480A93018D@mail.runrev.com>
Message-ID: <BC51AD0B.4F42%pixelbird@interisland.net>

on 2/12/04 7:34 PM, use-revolution-request at lists.runrev.com at
use-revolution-request at lists.runrev.com wrote:

> Message: 1
> Date: Thu, 12 Feb 2004 17:25:32 -0700
> From: Alex Rice <alex at mindlube.com>
> Subject: Re: Exocet dreams; not the missile but...
> 
> 
> On Feb 12, 2004, at 4:08 PM, Ken Norris wrote:
>> Personally, someday I want to build a complete set of exocet
>> programming
>> tools with a comprehensive bot which can be used by the disabled to
>> create
>> personalized software tools to meet their own needs for creating yet
>> more
>> tools.
> 
> What is exocet?
-----------
Probably from the Latin exocetus, a flying fish, Exocets are primarily known
as French-built anti-ship missiles which are usually fitted with fairly
sophisticated intelligent internal guidance systems. If you preprogram or
radio control them into a general zone, they can then locate, track,
acquire, and strike a particular ship, all on their own. The word has since
become a kind of synonym for a similar form of AI.

Some types of search bots on the internet, and, I suppose, in sophisticated
complex DBs, use algorithms that similarly "home in" on specified targets,
and are occasionally referred to as exocets.

It's in the latter context that I used the word.
-----------
> If you never have done so, play with some Lego Mindstorms. You'll
> probably get some ideas.
-----------
Yes, but more in line with using current developer tools like Rev to design
and assemble other tools which can exploit individual abilities, i.e., the
things a person with disabilities _can_ do, such that the system 'learns'
about its user and continuously homes in on better, more successful means
for communication and control.

More in line with developing tools for the disabled to use the internet,
telephony, X-Ten devices, etc., to create for themselves opportunities for
independence and contribution that haven't existed before.

Why? Because they will have the means to design and develop tools and
solutions unique to their individual needs, skills, and desires.
-----------
> There is a Lego robotics lab at the new Explora in Albuquerque, NM. My
> 4 year old son learned to program a bot in < 45 minutes! It's all
> procedural, iconic and point-n-click!
-----------
Cool...

That's the idea, and I certainly agree robotics is right in line with what
I'm thinking, but the main idea is that a person with severe deficits will
be able to develop tools to help themselves to do whatever they want to do.

I believe that somewhere inside a twisted lump of seemingly helpless flesh
may be, probably _is_, a mind and a spirit with capabilities beyond what
even that person can know. Maybe they are geared to computers or robotics,
but they may as well be into fine arts, music, aeronautical engineering,
writing...who knows? Maybe there is in such a person the makings of another
Einstein, or a Martin Luther King.

How will they, or we, ever know, if they remain stuck, broken, totalliy
institutionalized all their lives?

I just want to develop basic stuff that has some capability to follow its
user, constantly testing and paying attention to what appears to be working,
put a few things together in that direction to help. If it works, if it hits
the mark, the user now has another tool to help create the next better
thing...until they have what they need to learn and write a concerto,
discover the Unified theory, or write the doc that finally brings peace to
the Sudan.

Like that...a dream...

Ken N.


From b.xavier at internet.lu  Fri Feb 13 01:38:17 2004
From: b.xavier at internet.lu (MisterX)
Date: Fri, 13 Feb 2004 07:38:17 +0100
Subject: use-revolution Digest, Vol 5, Issue 123
In-Reply-To: <735AF619-5DDD-11D8-85F5-000A95DA60FA@adelphia.net>
Message-ID: <ENEALNOCJBOOOHHCCEKNGEAPFNAA.b.xavier@internet.lu>


Can you teach it to water plants? ;)

> -----Original Message-----
> From: use-revolution-bounces at lists.runrev.com
> [mailto:use-revolution-bounces at lists.runrev.com]On Behalf Of Thomas
> McGrath III
> Sent: Friday, February 13, 2004 05:31
> To: How to use Revolution
> Subject: Re: use-revolution Digest, Vol 5, Issue 123
> 
> 
> 
> What I want to know is Lego Mindstorms controllable via 
> Revolution?????????
> I think it is in the serial realm.......
> 
> I know there is a Mac version out there last time I searched. I think 
> it was an educational version.
> 
> I would love to play with Legos from my computer and Rev and X10.
> Then I could have Rev react to environmental conditions and then 
> control my little bots to do cool stuff......
> 
> Tom
> 
> 
> >>
> >> If you never have done so, play with some Lego Mindstorms. You'll
> >> probably get some ideas.
> >>
> >> There is a Lego robotics lab at the new Explora in Albuquerque, NM. My
> >> 4 year old son learned to program a bot in < 45 minutes! It's all
> >> procedural, iconic and point-n-click!
> >
> >
> 
> Thomas J. McGrath III
> SCS
> 1000 Killarney Dr.
> Pittsburgh, PA 15234
> 412-885-8541
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution

From pixelbird at interisland.net  Fri Feb 13 01:26:46 2004
From: pixelbird at interisland.net (Ken Norris)
Date: Thu, 12 Feb 2004 22:26:46 -0800
Subject: use-revolution Digest, Vol 5, Issue 123
In-Reply-To: <20040213033447.9480A93018D@mail.runrev.com>
Message-ID: <BC51AE26.4F43%pixelbird@interisland.net>

-----------
> Date: Fri, 13 Feb 2004 02:01:30 +0000
> From: Frank Leahy <frank at backtalk.com>
> Subject: Re: Intelligent Agents......

> As I recall Eager was done by Allen Cypher -- you can find his contact
> info on this page http://www.pliant.org/personal/Tom_Erickson/AHA.html
-----------
Hmmm...the guy created Cocoa too.

Ken N.


From pixelbird at interisland.net  Fri Feb 13 01:29:43 2004
From: pixelbird at interisland.net (Ken Norris)
Date: Thu, 12 Feb 2004 22:29:43 -0800
Subject: OT: Village signing [was: RR as a browser plugin?]
In-Reply-To: <20040213033447.9480A93018D@mail.runrev.com>
Message-ID: <BC51AED7.4F44%pixelbird@interisland.net>

Hi Judy,

> From: Judy Perry <jperryl at ecs.fullerton.edu>
> Subject: Re: OT: Village signing [was: RR as a browser plugin?]
> 
> For kids, make it into a game (hence, my Mr. Potatohead idea -- present
> body parts to them -- the signs, that is -- and when they correctly
> identify the sign at the assessment part, take them to a screen wherein
> they can choose a particular version of that body part).
----------
But what will you do about all the hand movements?

Ken N. 


From sarahr at genesearch.com.au  Fri Feb 13 01:33:45 2004
From: sarahr at genesearch.com.au (Sarah Reichelt)
Date: Fri, 13 Feb 2004 16:33:45 +1000
Subject: use-revolution Digest, Vol 5, Issue 123
In-Reply-To: <B50188A2-5DEC-11D8-B830-000A9567A3E6@swcp.com>
References: <B50188A2-5DEC-11D8-B830-000A9567A3E6@swcp.com>
Message-ID: <92C1D070-5DEE-11D8-A661-0003937A97B8@genesearch.com.au>

Come on Dar, you can't leave it at that :-)
How do you do it. The last time I investigated, you either had to have 
some VB dll in Windows or a mini C compiler in Macs. While I realize 
one can communicate directly via serial ports, how do you use this to 
program &/or control the robots?

Sarah

On 13 Feb 2004, at 4:21 pm, Dar Scott wrote:

> On Thursday, February 12, 2004, at 09:31 PM, Thomas McGrath III wrote:
>
>> What I want to know is Lego Mindstorms controllable via 
>> Revolution?????????
>
> Yes.
>
> Dar


From sarahr at genesearch.com.au  Fri Feb 13 01:34:27 2004
From: sarahr at genesearch.com.au (Sarah Reichelt)
Date: Fri, 13 Feb 2004 16:34:27 +1000
Subject: English-like communications adventure with good man UDI
In-Reply-To: <20040213062118.87165.qmail@web61108.mail.yahoo.com>
References: <20040213062118.87165.qmail@web61108.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <ABB72B0A-5DEE-11D8-A661-0003937A97B8@genesearch.com.au>

On 13 Feb 2004, at 4:23 pm, Erik Hansen wrote:

>> - or you can use Sarah Reichelt's droplet,
>> which you
>> can download from the Rev Contributions section
>> ;
>> direct link :
>>
> <http://www.runrev.com/revolution/downloads/developerdownloads/ 
> Rev%20droplet.sit>
>
> thank you Sarah Reichelt ('s droplet)
> IT WORKED! the file opens,
> and now i know what a droplet is.
>
My pleasure - glad it worked for you.

Cheers,
Sarah


From erikhans08 at yahoo.com  Fri Feb 13 01:38:55 2004
From: erikhans08 at yahoo.com (Erik Hansen)
Date: Thu, 12 Feb 2004 22:38:55 -0800 (PST)
Subject: use-revolution Digest, Vol 5, Issue 123 = ???
In-Reply-To: <ENEALNOCJBOOOHHCCEKNGEAPFNAA.b.xavier@internet.lu>
Message-ID: <20040213063855.32630.qmail@web61103.mail.yahoo.com>


i missed this whole LOGO thread because
Subject: = empty.

=====
erik at erikhansen.org    http://www.erikhansen.org

__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Finance: Get your refund fast by filing online.
http://taxes.yahoo.com/filing.html

From revolution at jaedworks.com  Thu Feb 12 22:12:50 2004
From: revolution at jaedworks.com (Jeanne A. E. DeVoto)
Date: Thu, 12 Feb 2004 19:12:50 -0800
Subject: itemDelimiter
In-Reply-To: <4C19925B-5DCC-11D8-BC79-000A9580FCCE@backtalk.com>
References: <4C19925B-5DCC-11D8-BC79-000A9580FCCE@backtalk.com>
Message-ID: <p06010247bc51f0f8a2b7@[10.0.1.3]>

At 2:28 AM +0000 2/13/04, Frank Leahy wrote:
>An easier way to get the number of paragraphs would be:
>
>put the keys of theParagraphArray into theKeys
>put the number of lines of theKeys into numParagraphs

Even easier:

   put the number of lines in the keys of theParagraphArray into numParagraphs
-- 
jeanne a. e. devoto ~ jaed at jaedworks.com
http://www.jaedworks.com

From pixelbird at interisland.net  Fri Feb 13 01:57:59 2004
From: pixelbird at interisland.net (Ken Norris)
Date: Thu, 12 Feb 2004 22:57:59 -0800
Subject: Windows appearance issues
In-Reply-To: <20040213033447.9480A93018D@mail.runrev.com>
Message-ID: <BC51B577.4F4A%pixelbird@interisland.net>

Hi Bill,

> Date: Thu, 12 Feb 2004 19:34:11 -0800
> From: Bill Vlahos <bvlahos at mac.com>
> Subject: Re: Windows appearance issues
> 
> I believe the next version of Rev will support Windows native
> appearance (like the Mac version does now). I think we are due for this
> new version soon.
-----------
No time to wait. The volunteer list has grown by 4 members in three days,
and calls for assistance are coming in. It's growing too fast.

We have one person fielding calls to 3 different phone coordinators for
referral. We need to start tracking and keeping records right now.

I was just hoping the Windows interface wouldn't look so ugly with plain
buttons and fields. I'm gonna have to stitch something together quick.

Got a couple of ideas, though.

Ken N.



From dsc at swcp.com  Fri Feb 13 02:36:39 2004
From: dsc at swcp.com (Dar Scott)
Date: Fri, 13 Feb 2004 00:36:39 -0700
Subject: Mindstorms and Revolution.
In-Reply-To: <92C1D070-5DEE-11D8-A661-0003937A97B8@genesearch.com.au>
Message-ID: <5C322FDC-5DF7-11D8-B830-000A9567A3E6@swcp.com>


On Thursday, February 12, 2004, at 11:33 PM, Sarah Reichelt wrote:

> Come on Dar, you can't leave it at that :-)
> How do you do it. The last time I investigated, you either had to have 
> some VB dll in Windows or a mini C compiler in Macs. While I realize 
> one can communicate directly via serial ports, how do you use this to 
> program &/or control the robots?

Look here for the low level commands:

   http://graphics.stanford.edu/~kekoa/rcx/

This hasn't been updated for a while, so you might want to save it some 
place.  It might go away.  There are some detailed command entries at 
that site.  You might find some better or confirming data.

Some folks download a new OS and interpreter.  Variations of Forth, 
Java and C are are popular.

I'd consider doing this in three stages.  The right way to go might be 
more obvious after tinkering.

1  Make something that sends and receives simple hex commands and test 
tethered.  (See function rcx_send in the send.c example.)

2  Make commands and functions for control and sensing.  Do some 
tethered projects with that.

3  Make a compiler from above plus program control to RCX commands.  
Download those.  Turn the robot loose.

Dar Scott


From pixelbird at interisland.net  Fri Feb 13 02:37:20 2004
From: pixelbird at interisland.net (Ken Norris)
Date: Thu, 12 Feb 2004 23:37:20 -0800
Subject: Windows appearance issues
In-Reply-To: <20040213062217.A8F429300CF@mail.runrev.com>
Message-ID: <BC51BEAF.4F4E%pixelbird@interisland.net>

Hi Chipp,

> Date: Thu, 12 Feb 2004 22:20:04 -0600
> From: "Chipp Walters" <chipp at chipp.com>
> Subject: RE: Windows appearance issues
> 
> Bill is right about the next version..
> 
> but, unlike Mac, many windows programs don't adhere exactly to the current
> windows 'look and feel'. In fact, even Microsoft doesn't in their Office
> Suite. So, it's not a big problem to go with the standard Windows 2000
> look-and-feel (which is the default L-N-F for RR)
------------
OK....but it's so darned ugly. I wasn't ready for that. My only version of
Windows is XP Pro on a Compaq. I don't mind Windows XP, it has a decent L&F,
albeit quite cartoon-like. 'Course, I'm not an Aqua fan either...glass
buttons on coroplast...what the heck is that (but the field shadows are
nice)? Mac boxes are kinda funny these days too. Cheese graters and dental
equipment.

I'm using the monitor for my Mac. I have a switchbox for sharing the
monitor, but it causes ghosting when the Mac is plugged into it, so I went
back to direct, meaning the Compaq has no monitor on my boat unless I get
under there and switch the wires around...and the switch them back in an
hour. Extremely tight space, sort of like cleaning under the sink.

Maybe I can get in a game of Sturmovich, the Compaq has a _very_ fast video
card.

Ken N.


From xbury.cs at clearstream.com  Fri Feb 13 02:39:01 2004
From: xbury.cs at clearstream.com (xbury.cs at clearstream.com)
Date: Fri, 13 Feb 2004 08:39:01 +0100
Subject: 10 bugs in 2 minutes time!
Message-ID: <OF850D8E48.F6A3591F-ONC1256E39.00299CF9-C1256E39.002A0634@deutsche-boerse.de>

On 12/02/2004 03:08:55 PM use-revolution-bounces wrote:
>Xavier, et al:
>
>1,  So far as I could tell, your 10 bugs are all related to the Rev
>Dev environment and Rev add-ons (eg: Geometry Manager) to the basic
>MetaCard framework.

My mistake in considering the IDE to be the RR GUI/Framework...
The MC IDE remains flawless ;)

>2.  I write my own resize stack handler, and I have no problems with
>geometry at runtime.

So do I in the MC IDE but in RR, I thought I'd take advantage of it. 
Unfortunately (and again this morning) it seems like it's not quite
solid once you push too many buttons...

>3.  There is an issue in the AB where one cannot change the relative
>layers of controls in a group except when editing the group; however
>I can change the relative layers of a group and a non-grouped control
>at will.

I was in whole-group selection mode. One newly created group overlapped 
the hidden field that is supposed to be topmost field. When I selected the
field to send it on top, the "send to top" button never hilited! I did it 
manualy

These kind of things shouldn't happen...

>The fault, Dear X-Man, is not in our MetaCard stars but in the
>Revolutionist wrapper.

Well, it can only get better ;)

Thanks Rob!

Visit us at http://www.clearstream.com
                                                          
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From scott at tactilemedia.com  Fri Feb 13 02:41:44 2004
From: scott at tactilemedia.com (Scott Rossi)
Date: Thu, 12 Feb 2004 23:41:44 -0800
Subject: Drawers size
In-Reply-To: <295A58B4-5DDC-11D8-85F5-000A95DA60FA@adelphia.net>
Message-ID: <BC51BFB8.9FB8%scott@tactilemedia.com>

On 2/12/04 8:21 PM, "Thomas McGrath III" <3mcgrath at adelphia.net> wrote:

> Well after misunderstanding what Klaus was saying I spent the last two
> hours trying to get it to be bigger than the parent window.
> The window I am using is a non standard window, it is a shape. I wanted
> the drawer to come out the bottom of my floating window and that is not
> possible for some reason either.

Without knowing what you're trying to do, you might be able to roll your own
drawer, if you can place the intended contents of the drawer into a group.
To see a simple example, paste the following line in your message box:

  go url "http://www.tactilemedia.com/download/drawertest.rev"

Regards,

Scott Rossi
Creative Director
Tactile Media, Development & Design
-----
E: scott at tactilemedia.com
W: http://www.tactilemedia.com


From pixelbird at interisland.net  Fri Feb 13 02:44:07 2004
From: pixelbird at interisland.net (Ken Norris)
Date: Thu, 12 Feb 2004 23:44:07 -0800
Subject: OT: Village signing [was: RR as a browser plugin?]
In-Reply-To: <20040213062217.A8F429300CF@mail.runrev.com>
Message-ID: <BC51C047.4F4F%pixelbird@interisland.net>

Hi Jacque,

> Date: Thu, 12 Feb 2004 22:26:59 -0600
> From: "J. Landman Gay" <jacque at hyperactivesw.com>
> Subject: Re: OT: Village signing [was: RR as a browser plugin?]

> If you do decide to make videos, better find a real deaf person. Except
> for the children of deaf parents, almost everyone else has a "hearing
> accent".
-----------
If I can get them to go reeeeally slow....or slo-mo the video.

I'm still trying to imagine Jabberwocky in ASL.  ;-)

Ken N.


From opus.species at wanadoo.fr  Fri Feb 13 02:57:25 2004
From: opus.species at wanadoo.fr (opus.species at wanadoo.fr)
Date: Fri, 13 Feb 2004 08:57:25 +0100
Subject: RR as a browser plugin?
In-Reply-To: <20040212170027.08A76930486@mail.runrev.com>
References: <20040212170027.08A76930486@mail.runrev.com>
Message-ID: <opr3atpzaa7hj683@smtp.wanadoo.fr>

> From: Richard Gaskin <ambassador at fourthworld.com>
> Subject: Re: RR as a browser plugin?

> Pre-installing a helper
> app could be done just as simply.

How ?

If we want to use Revolution as a helper application, we need some 
installer what
1) install a rev player
2) register the rev player to the system
3) register the rev player to the browser (at least IExplorer and 
Mozilla/Netscape)

We can request a end-user to download an installer file and run it or to 
play an installer file from a cd-rom, but we cannot request an end user to 
manage himself the registration of Revolution as an helper in his browser, 
too difficult for him.

Was any one successfull in such a task ?
Is there a receipe or a sample app availaible ?

Claude

From mcdomi at free.fr  Fri Feb 13 03:32:08 2004
From: mcdomi at free.fr (Dom)
Date: Fri, 13 Feb 2004 09:32:08 +0100
Subject: itemDelimiter
In-Reply-To: <p06010247bc51f0f8a2b7@[10.0.1.3]>
Message-ID: <1g937ej.1x1drmf1euhe4uM%mcdomi@free.fr>

Jeanne A. E. DeVoto <revolution at jaedworks.com> wrote:

>    put the number of lines in the keys of theParagraphArray into numParagraphs

That's a one-liner ;-)

-- 
Vous parlez fran?ais ? faites un tour sur le groupe francophone !
revolutionfr-subscribe at yahoogroupes.fr
Jetez un oeil sur RevoBlog <http://revoblog.free.fr> !

From mcdomi at free.fr  Fri Feb 13 03:32:08 2004
From: mcdomi at free.fr (Dom)
Date: Fri, 13 Feb 2004 09:32:08 +0100
Subject: itemDelimiter
In-Reply-To: <C692D4F8-5D5C-11D8-98B4-000A95DA60FA@adelphia.net>
Message-ID: <1g938yj.rvo7r81hlm5x9M%mcdomi@free.fr>

Thomas McGrath III <3mcgrath at adelphia.net> wrote:

> If the answer is NO then can someone help me understand how to sift 
> through the html below to just extract the title text and the 2 
> paragraph texts?

Besides the answers you were given, why not rely on the built-in
Revolution html interpreter?

I mean something as simple as putting the code into a field A, then
translating with a one-liner button:

  set the htmltext of fld A to the text of fld A

-- I am aware, though, that the <title> is not "translated"... so you
first have to parse this tag ;-)

-- 
Vous parlez fran?ais ? faites un tour sur le groupe francophone !
revolutionfr-subscribe at yahoogroupes.fr
Jetez un oeil sur RevoBlog <http://revoblog.free.fr> !

From chipp at chipp.com  Fri Feb 13 04:47:05 2004
From: chipp at chipp.com (Chipp Walters)
Date: Fri, 13 Feb 2004 03:47:05 -0600
Subject: Windows appearance issues
In-Reply-To: <BC51BEAF.4F4E%pixelbird@interisland.net>
Message-ID: <GGEOJBEEGFHLDOFIMMPIEEKNGAAA.chipp@chipp.com>

Ken,

<shameless plug>
You can use ButtonGadget as a plugin (pro version) which can create XP
looking buttons. Check it out at www.buttongadget.com  Only works on XP
right now...working on the Mac version when they get alphadata fixed.
</shameless plug>

best,

Chipp



From doug at webcrossing.com  Fri Feb 13 04:47:43 2004
From: doug at webcrossing.com (Doug Lerner)
Date: Fri, 13 Feb 2004 18:47:43 +0900
Subject: Keeping track of a control's transformation?
Message-ID: <BC52CC4F.268E5%doug@webcrossing.com>

In a client application I am working on, I am drawing arrows and sending the
arrow information to a server, to be mirrored in other clients.

One thing that doesn't mirror perfectly though is this: in the client, when
you select and resize an arrow, you can effectively change the rotation of
the arrow by resizing so that the relative corners change.

For example, you can turn a bottom left to top right arrow into a bottom
right to top left arrow by dragging the top-right corner anchor to the left,
effectively turning the anchor into the top-left corner anchor. Do you know
what I mean?

Anyway, all I am sending for resizes is the end rectangle, and that no
longer has enough information in it to indicate that such a transformation
took place.

Is there any information - a before and after transformation matrix or
something like that - that I can use instead to send more complete
information on what happened?

Thanks,

Doug


From xbury.cs at clearstream.com  Fri Feb 13 04:56:16 2004
From: xbury.cs at clearstream.com (xbury.cs at clearstream.com)
Date: Fri, 13 Feb 2004 10:56:16 +0100
Subject: Keeping track of a control's transformation?
Message-ID: <OF8BA38F47.1D2C596B-ONC1256E39.00367A2C-C1256E39.0036976D@deutsche-boerse.de>

You could send the start click location (in a mousedown event) 
and the end click location (in a mouseup)...

Hope it helps...
---------------------=---------------------
Xavier Bury
Clearstream Services
TNS NT LAN Server
ext 36465
Voice: +352 4656 43 6465
Fax: +352 4656 493 6465




Doug Lerner <doug at webcrossing.com>
Sent by: use-revolution-bounces at lists.runrev.com
13/02/04 10:47 AM
Please respond to How to use Revolution

 
        To:     <erik at erikhansen.org>, How to use Revolution 
<use-revolution at lists.runrev.com>
        cc: 
        Subject:        Keeping track of a control's transformation?

.


In a client application I am working on, I am drawing arrows and sending 
the
arrow information to a server, to be mirrored in other clients.

One thing that doesn't mirror perfectly though is this: in the client, 
when
you select and resize an arrow, you can effectively change the rotation of
the arrow by resizing so that the relative corners change.

For example, you can turn a bottom left to top right arrow into a bottom
right to top left arrow by dragging the top-right corner anchor to the 
left,
effectively turning the anchor into the top-left corner anchor. Do you 
know
what I mean?

Anyway, all I am sending for resizes is the end rectangle, and that no
longer has enough information in it to indicate that such a transformation
took place.

Is there any information - a before and after transformation matrix or
something like that - that I can use instead to send more complete
information on what happened?

Thanks,

Doug

_______________________________________________
use-revolution mailing list
use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution




Visit us at http://www.clearstream.com
                                                          
IMPORTANT MESSAGE

Internet communications are not secure and therefore Clearstream International does not accept legal responsibility for the contents of this message.

The information contained in this e-mail is confidential and may be legally privileged. It is intended solely for the addressee. If you are not the intended recipient, any disclosure, copying, distribution or any action taken or omitted to be taken in reliance on it, is prohibited and may be unlawful. Any views expressed in this e-mail are those of the individual sender, except where the sender specifically states them to be the views of Clearstream International or of any of its affiliates or subsidiaries.

END OF DISCLAIMER

From doug at webcrossing.com  Fri Feb 13 05:00:37 2004
From: doug at webcrossing.com (Doug Lerner)
Date: Fri, 13 Feb 2004 19:00:37 +0900
Subject: Keeping track of a control's transformation?
In-Reply-To: <OF8BA38F47.1D2C596B-ONC1256E39.00367A2C-C1256E39.0036976D@deutsche-boerse.de>
Message-ID: <BC52CF55.268EE%doug@webcrossing.com>

I think I need more than that though. Something about the entirety of the
transformation matrix. Or rather than the rectangle, the begin and end
points of all the anchors at least. The problem is that left can become
right and up can become down...

doug

On 2/13/04 6:56 PM, "xbury.cs at clearstream.com" <xbury.cs at clearstream.com>
wrote:

> You could send the start click location (in a mousedown event)
> and the end click location (in a mouseup)...
> 
> Hope it helps...
> ---------------------=---------------------
> Xavier Bury
> Clearstream Services
> TNS NT LAN Server
> ext 36465
> Voice: +352 4656 43 6465
> Fax: +352 4656 493 6465
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Doug Lerner <doug at webcrossing.com>
> Sent by: use-revolution-bounces at lists.runrev.com
> 13/02/04 10:47 AM
> Please respond to How to use Revolution
> 
> 
>       To:     <erik at erikhansen.org>, How to use Revolution
> <use-revolution at lists.runrev.com>
>       cc:
>       Subject:        Keeping track of a control's transformation?
> 
> .
> 
> 
> In a client application I am working on, I am drawing arrows and sending
> the
> arrow information to a server, to be mirrored in other clients.
> 
> One thing that doesn't mirror perfectly though is this: in the client,
> when
> you select and resize an arrow, you can effectively change the rotation of
> the arrow by resizing so that the relative corners change.
> 
> For example, you can turn a bottom left to top right arrow into a bottom
> right to top left arrow by dragging the top-right corner anchor to the
> left,
> effectively turning the anchor into the top-left corner anchor. Do you
> know
> what I mean?
> 
> Anyway, all I am sending for resizes is the end rectangle, and that no
> longer has enough information in it to indicate that such a transformation
> took place.
> 
> Is there any information - a before and after transformation matrix or
> something like that - that I can use instead to send more complete
> information on what happened?
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> Doug
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Visit us at http://www.clearstream.com
> 
> IMPORTANT MESSAGE
> 
> Internet communications are not secure and therefore Clearstream International
> does not accept legal responsibility for the contents of this message.
> 
> The information contained in this e-mail is confidential and may be legally
> privileged. It is intended solely for the addressee. If you are not the
> intended recipient, any disclosure, copying, distribution or any action taken
> or omitted to be taken in reliance on it, is prohibited and may be unlawful.
> Any views expressed in this e-mail are those of the individual sender, except
> where the sender specifically states them to be the views of Clearstream
> International or of any of its affiliates or subsidiaries.
> 
> END OF DISCLAIMER
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution


From xbury.cs at clearstream.com  Fri Feb 13 05:05:49 2004
From: xbury.cs at clearstream.com (xbury.cs at clearstream.com)
Date: Fri, 13 Feb 2004 11:05:49 +0100
Subject: Keeping track of a control's transformation?
Message-ID: <OF4F684074.30EA4B13-ONC1256E39.0037214A-C1256E39.00377748@deutsche-boerse.de>

if you know where your arrow was pointing before, the new mouseup location
will tell you where it is at in comparison to the original point. 

if you have an arrow with corners ABCD where the arrow is vector AD,
then dragging corner B (topright) below and left of point C (botleft) a 
simple
if (newX < Bx) and (newy < By) then structure can tell you where the new 
arrow is pointing...

In the mousedown you record which point is being dragged so you know what 
is changing...

Better?

On 13/02/2004 11:00:37 AM use-revolution-bounces wrote:
>I think I need more than that though. Something about the entirety of the
>transformation matrix. Or rather than the rectangle, the begin and end
>points of all the anchors at least. The problem is that left can become
>right and up can become down...
>
>doug
>
>On 2/13/04 6:56 PM, "xbury.cs at clearstream.com" <xbury.cs at clearstream.com>
>wrote:
>
>> You could send the start click location (in a mousedown event)
>> and the end click location (in a mouseup)...
>>
>> Hope it helps...
>> ---------------------=---------------------
>> Xavier Bury
>> Clearstream Services
>> TNS NT LAN Server
>> ext 36465
>> Voice: +352 4656 43 6465
>> Fax: +352 4656 493 6465
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Doug Lerner <doug at webcrossing.com>
>> Sent by: use-revolution-bounces at lists.runrev.com
>> 13/02/04 10:47 AM
>> Please respond to How to use Revolution
>>
>>
>>       To:     <erik at erikhansen.org>, How to use Revolution
>> <use-revolution at lists.runrev.com>
>>       cc:
>>       Subject:        Keeping track of a control's transformation?
>>
>> .
>>
>>
>> In a client application I am working on, I am drawing arrows and 
sending
>> the
>> arrow information to a server, to be mirrored in other clients.
>>
>> One thing that doesn't mirror perfectly though is this: in the client,
>> when
>> you select and resize an arrow, you can effectively change the rotation 
of
>> the arrow by resizing so that the relative corners change.
>>
>> For example, you can turn a bottom left to top right arrow into a 
bottom
>> right to top left arrow by dragging the top-right corner anchor to the
>> left,
>> effectively turning the anchor into the top-left corner anchor. Do you
>> know
>> what I mean?
>>
>> Anyway, all I am sending for resizes is the end rectangle, and that no
>> longer has enough information in it to indicate that such a 
transformation
>> took place.
>>
>> Is there any information - a before and after transformation matrix or
>> something like that - that I can use instead to send more complete
>> information on what happened?
>>
>> Thanks,
>>
>> Doug
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> use-revolution mailing list
>> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Visit us at http://www.clearstream.com
>>
>> IMPORTANT MESSAGE
>>
>> Internet communications are not secure and therefore Clearstream 
International
>> does not accept legal responsibility for the contents of this message.
>>
>> The information contained in this e-mail is confidential and may be 
legally
>> privileged. It is intended solely for the addressee. If you are not the
>> intended recipient, any disclosure, copying, distribution or any action 
taken
>> or omitted to be taken in reliance on it, is prohibited and may be 
unlawful.
>> Any views expressed in this e-mail are those of the individual sender, 
except
>> where the sender specifically states them to be the views of 
Clearstream
>> International or of any of its affiliates or subsidiaries.
>>
>> END OF DISCLAIMER
>> _______________________________________________
>> use-revolution mailing list
>> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>
>_______________________________________________
>use-revolution mailing list
>use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
>http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution

From janschenkel at yahoo.com  Fri Feb 13 05:22:03 2004
From: janschenkel at yahoo.com (Jan Schenkel)
Date: Fri, 13 Feb 2004 02:22:03 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Keeping track of a control's transformation?
In-Reply-To: <BC52CC4F.268E5%doug@webcrossing.com>
Message-ID: <20040213102203.68250.qmail@web60507.mail.yahoo.com>

--- Doug Lerner <doug at webcrossing.com> wrote:
> In a client application I am working on, I am
> drawing arrows and sending the
> arrow information to a server, to be mirrored in
> other clients.
> 
> One thing that doesn't mirror perfectly though is
> this: in the client, when
> you select and resize an arrow, you can effectively
> change the rotation of
> the arrow by resizing so that the relative corners
> change.
> 
> [snip]
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> Doug
> 

Hi Doug,

I think you can do it by sending along the contents of
the 'points' property.

Hope this helped,

Jan Schenkel.

=====
"As we grow older, we grow both wiser and more foolish at the same time."  (La Rochefoucauld)

__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Finance: Get your refund fast by filing online.
http://taxes.yahoo.com/filing.html

From klaus at major-k.de  Fri Feb 13 05:37:44 2004
From: klaus at major-k.de (Klaus Major)
Date: Fri, 13 Feb 2004 11:37:44 +0100
Subject: Drawers size
In-Reply-To: <7370C88A-5DB0-11D8-928B-000A95DA60FA@adelphia.net>
References: <28123455-5D76-11D8-98B4-000A95DA60FA@adelphia.net>
	<B004CE8E-5D77-11D8-A4D8-000A27B49A96@major-k.de>
	<7370C88A-5DB0-11D8-928B-000A95DA60FA@adelphia.net>
Message-ID: <A8855CB4-5E10-11D8-9A49-000A27B49A96@major-k.de>

Hi Thomas McGrath III,

> Klaus,
>
> I wasn't in the commode but, the way I went about it did not seem to 
> work.
> So I was hoping that some one with a bit more experience than me had 
> done it.
> I don't need someone to write the damn thing for me, just to tell me 
> it's doable
> and maybe a clue or two. Then I will pursue it to the full extents of 
> my abilities.

Sorry, i did not mean to offend you...

I just had no idea :-)

It might also be a good idea to mention that you already tried ;-)


Some (few!) posts on this list do not give me that feeling and that's a 
bit hard to
deal with for me...

Maybe that reminds me too much of the (darker) times when i was
holding lessons for beginners:

Only ONE blinking button on the screen, which reads (not literally ;-):
"Click me!!! There's nothting else you can do!!!"

And they still kept asking me:
"Klaus, should i click that button now?"

No kidding!!! :-D

> Thank you
>
>
> Tom

Regards

Klaus Major
klaus at major-k.de
www.major-k.de


From doug at webcrossing.com  Fri Feb 13 05:39:04 2004
From: doug at webcrossing.com (Doug Lerner)
Date: Fri, 13 Feb 2004 19:39:04 +0900
Subject: Keeping track of a control's transformation?
In-Reply-To: <OF4F684074.30EA4B13-ONC1256E39.0037214A-C1256E39.00377748@deutsche-boerse.de>
Message-ID: <BC52D858.268F9%doug@webcrossing.com>

Certainly knowing which point was being dragged would help. How do I detect
that? I tried looking up "anchor" and "vertex" in the Transcript dictionary,
but couldn't find anything...

doug

On 2/13/04 7:05 PM, "xbury.cs at clearstream.com" <xbury.cs at clearstream.com>
wrote:

> if you know where your arrow was pointing before, the new mouseup location
> will tell you where it is at in comparison to the original point.
> 
> if you have an arrow with corners ABCD where the arrow is vector AD,
> then dragging corner B (topright) below and left of point C (botleft) a
> simple
> if (newX < Bx) and (newy < By) then structure can tell you where the new
> arrow is pointing...
> 
> In the mousedown you record which point is being dragged so you know what
> is changing...
> 
> Better?
> 
> On 13/02/2004 11:00:37 AM use-revolution-bounces wrote:
>> I think I need more than that though. Something about the entirety of the
>> transformation matrix. Or rather than the rectangle, the begin and end
>> points of all the anchors at least. The problem is that left can become
>> right and up can become down...
>> 
>> doug
>> 
>> On 2/13/04 6:56 PM, "xbury.cs at clearstream.com" <xbury.cs at clearstream.com>
>> wrote:
>> 
>>> You could send the start click location (in a mousedown event)
>>> and the end click location (in a mouseup)...
>>> 
>>> Hope it helps...
>>> ---------------------=---------------------
>>> Xavier Bury
>>> Clearstream Services
>>> TNS NT LAN Server
>>> ext 36465
>>> Voice: +352 4656 43 6465
>>> Fax: +352 4656 493 6465
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Doug Lerner <doug at webcrossing.com>
>>> Sent by: use-revolution-bounces at lists.runrev.com
>>> 13/02/04 10:47 AM
>>> Please respond to How to use Revolution
>>> 
>>> 
>>>       To:     <erik at erikhansen.org>, How to use Revolution
>>> <use-revolution at lists.runrev.com>
>>>       cc:
>>>       Subject:        Keeping track of a control's transformation?
>>> 
>>> .
>>> 
>>> 
>>> In a client application I am working on, I am drawing arrows and
> sending
>>> the
>>> arrow information to a server, to be mirrored in other clients.
>>> 
>>> One thing that doesn't mirror perfectly though is this: in the client,
>>> when
>>> you select and resize an arrow, you can effectively change the rotation
> of
>>> the arrow by resizing so that the relative corners change.
>>> 
>>> For example, you can turn a bottom left to top right arrow into a
> bottom
>>> right to top left arrow by dragging the top-right corner anchor to the
>>> left,
>>> effectively turning the anchor into the top-left corner anchor. Do you
>>> know
>>> what I mean?
>>> 
>>> Anyway, all I am sending for resizes is the end rectangle, and that no
>>> longer has enough information in it to indicate that such a
> transformation
>>> took place.
>>> 
>>> Is there any information - a before and after transformation matrix or
>>> something like that - that I can use instead to send more complete
>>> information on what happened?
>>> 
>>> Thanks,
>>> 
>>> Doug
>>> 
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> use-revolution mailing list
>>> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Visit us at http://www.clearstream.com
>>> 
>>> IMPORTANT MESSAGE
>>> 
>>> Internet communications are not secure and therefore Clearstream
> International
>>> does not accept legal responsibility for the contents of this message.
>>> 
>>> The information contained in this e-mail is confidential and may be
> legally
>>> privileged. It is intended solely for the addressee. If you are not the
>>> intended recipient, any disclosure, copying, distribution or any action
> taken
>>> or omitted to be taken in reliance on it, is prohibited and may be
> unlawful.
>>> Any views expressed in this e-mail are those of the individual sender,
> except
>>> where the sender specifically states them to be the views of
> Clearstream
>>> International or of any of its affiliates or subsidiaries.
>>> 
>>> END OF DISCLAIMER
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> use-revolution mailing list
>>> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> use-revolution mailing list
>> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution


From doug at webcrossing.com  Fri Feb 13 05:40:08 2004
From: doug at webcrossing.com (Doug Lerner)
Date: Fri, 13 Feb 2004 19:40:08 +0900
Subject: Keeping track of a control's transformation?
In-Reply-To: <20040213102203.68250.qmail@web60507.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <BC52D898.268FA%doug@webcrossing.com>

On 2/13/04 7:22 PM, "Jan Schenkel" <janschenkel at yahoo.com> wrote:

> --- Doug Lerner <doug at webcrossing.com> wrote:
>> In a client application I am working on, I am
>> drawing arrows and sending the
>> arrow information to a server, to be mirrored in
>> other clients.
>> 
>> One thing that doesn't mirror perfectly though is
>> this: in the client, when
>> you select and resize an arrow, you can effectively
>> change the rotation of
>> the arrow by resizing so that the relative corners
>> change.
>> 
>> [snip]
>> 
>> Thanks,
>> 
>> Doug
>> 
> 
> Hi Doug,
> 
> I think you can do it by sending along the contents of
> the 'points' property.

Yes - basically "refreshing the graphic" would probably do it. I was trying
to be efficient and avoid resending the graphic data if I didn't have to...

doug


From psahores at easynet.fr  Fri Feb 13 05:44:52 2004
From: psahores at easynet.fr (Pierre Sahores)
Date: Fri, 13 Feb 2004 11:44:52 +0100
Subject: [ANN] RevZilla 1.1.1 Released
In-Reply-To: <00d201c3f1e1$547f7280$6601a8c0@LightningFlash>
References: <00d201c3f1e1$547f7280$6601a8c0@LightningFlash>
Message-ID: <A79A3DF2-5E11-11D8-BB01-000A95665344@easynet.fr>

Thanks, Ken :-)

Bests, Pierre

Le 13 f?vr. 04, ? 04:27, Ken Ray a ?crit :

> Just a quick note to let you know that I've updated RevZilla to work
> with the new Statuses and Resolutions of the new Bugzilla system, and
> added a feature that allows you to see all of your unresolved bugs in
> the My Bugs screen (displays UNCONFIRMED, PENDING, NEW, ASSIGNED and
> REOPENED bugs). You can still access the bugs the "old" way (the way
> Bugzilla currently does it: just the NEW, ASSIGNED and REOPENED ones) 
> if
> you like.
>
> You can get it through RevNet or at:
>
>   http://www.sonsothunder.com/devres/revolution/downloads/RevZilla.htm
>
> Thanks,
>
> Ken Ray
> Sons of Thunder Software
> Email: kray at sonsothunder.com
> Web Site: http://www.sonsothunder.com/
>
> P.S. Alex, I hope you're listening - at least this might hold you over
> until we make the same changes to My Bugs in Bugzilla. :-)
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>
>
Bien cordialement, Pierre Sahores

100, rue de Paris
F - 77140 Nemours

psahores at easynet.fr

GSM:   +33 6 03 95 77 70
Pro:   +33 1 41 60 52 68
Dom:   +33 1 64 45 05 33
Fax:   +33 1 64 45 05 33

Inspection acad?mique de Seine-Saint-Denis
Applications et SGBD ACID SQL (WEB et PGI)
Penser et produire "delta de productivit?"


From xbury.cs at clearstream.com  Fri Feb 13 05:45:12 2004
From: xbury.cs at clearstream.com (xbury.cs at clearstream.com)
Date: Fri, 13 Feb 2004 11:45:12 +0100
Subject: Keeping track of a control's transformation?
Message-ID: <OF2297F333.60FF5E89-ONC1256E39.003AF082-C1256E39.003B1230@deutsche-boerse.de>

You can find out easily when the mouse is down and the loc is < or > than 
the middle H or V...
---------------------=---------------------
Xavier Bury
Clearstream Services
TNS NT LAN Server
ext 36465
Voice: +352 4656 43 6465
Fax: +352 4656 493 6465




Doug Lerner <doug at webcrossing.com>
Sent by: use-revolution-bounces at lists.runrev.com
13/02/04 11:39 AM
Please respond to How to use Revolution

 
        To:     How to use Revolution <use-revolution at lists.runrev.com>
        cc: 
        Subject:        Re: Keeping track of a control's transformation?

.


Certainly knowing which point was being dragged would help. How do I 
detect
that? I tried looking up "anchor" and "vertex" in the Transcript 
dictionary,
but couldn't find anything...

doug

On 2/13/04 7:05 PM, "xbury.cs at clearstream.com" <xbury.cs at clearstream.com>
wrote:

> if you know where your arrow was pointing before, the new mouseup 
location
> will tell you where it is at in comparison to the original point.
> 
> if you have an arrow with corners ABCD where the arrow is vector AD,
> then dragging corner B (topright) below and left of point C (botleft) a
> simple
> if (newX < Bx) and (newy < By) then structure can tell you where the new
> arrow is pointing...
> 
> In the mousedown you record which point is being dragged so you know 
what
> is changing...
> 
> Better?
> 
> On 13/02/2004 11:00:37 AM use-revolution-bounces wrote:
>> I think I need more than that though. Something about the entirety of 
the
>> transformation matrix. Or rather than the rectangle, the begin and end
>> points of all the anchors at least. The problem is that left can become
>> right and up can become down...
>> 
>> doug
>> 
>> On 2/13/04 6:56 PM, "xbury.cs at clearstream.com" 
<xbury.cs at clearstream.com>
>> wrote:
>> 
>>> You could send the start click location (in a mousedown event)
>>> and the end click location (in a mouseup)...
>>> 
>>> Hope it helps...
>>> ---------------------=---------------------
>>> Xavier Bury
>>> Clearstream Services
>>> TNS NT LAN Server
>>> ext 36465
>>> Voice: +352 4656 43 6465
>>> Fax: +352 4656 493 6465
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Doug Lerner <doug at webcrossing.com>
>>> Sent by: use-revolution-bounces at lists.runrev.com
>>> 13/02/04 10:47 AM
>>> Please respond to How to use Revolution
>>> 
>>> 
>>>       To:     <erik at erikhansen.org>, How to use Revolution
>>> <use-revolution at lists.runrev.com>
>>>       cc:
>>>       Subject:        Keeping track of a control's transformation?
>>> 
>>> .
>>> 
>>> 
>>> In a client application I am working on, I am drawing arrows and
> sending
>>> the
>>> arrow information to a server, to be mirrored in other clients.
>>> 
>>> One thing that doesn't mirror perfectly though is this: in the client,
>>> when
>>> you select and resize an arrow, you can effectively change the 
rotation
> of
>>> the arrow by resizing so that the relative corners change.
>>> 
>>> For example, you can turn a bottom left to top right arrow into a
> bottom
>>> right to top left arrow by dragging the top-right corner anchor to the
>>> left,
>>> effectively turning the anchor into the top-left corner anchor. Do you
>>> know
>>> what I mean?
>>> 
>>> Anyway, all I am sending for resizes is the end rectangle, and that no
>>> longer has enough information in it to indicate that such a
> transformation
>>> took place.
>>> 
>>> Is there any information - a before and after transformation matrix or
>>> something like that - that I can use instead to send more complete
>>> information on what happened?
>>> 
>>> Thanks,
>>> 
>>> Doug
>>> 
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> use-revolution mailing list
>>> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Visit us at http://www.clearstream.com
>>> 
>>> IMPORTANT MESSAGE
>>> 
>>> Internet communications are not secure and therefore Clearstream
> International
>>> does not accept legal responsibility for the contents of this message.
>>> 
>>> The information contained in this e-mail is confidential and may be
> legally
>>> privileged. It is intended solely for the addressee. If you are not 
the
>>> intended recipient, any disclosure, copying, distribution or any 
action
> taken
>>> or omitted to be taken in reliance on it, is prohibited and may be
> unlawful.
>>> Any views expressed in this e-mail are those of the individual sender,
> except
>>> where the sender specifically states them to be the views of
> Clearstream
>>> International or of any of its affiliates or subsidiaries.
>>> 
>>> END OF DISCLAIMER
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> use-revolution mailing list
>>> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> use-revolution mailing list
>> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution

_______________________________________________
use-revolution mailing list
use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution




From doug at webcrossing.com  Fri Feb 13 07:02:04 2004
From: doug at webcrossing.com (Doug Lerner)
Date: Fri, 13 Feb 2004 21:02:04 +0900
Subject: Keeping track of a control's transformation?
In-Reply-To: <BC52D898.268FA%doug@webcrossing.com>
Message-ID: <BC52EBCC.26915%doug@webcrossing.com>

Thanks, Jan. That turned out to be a simple enough solution for now, and
that's what I ended up doing.

doug

On 2/13/04 7:40 PM, "Doug Lerner" <doug at webcrossing.com> wrote:

>> Hi Doug,
>> 
>> I think you can do it by sending along the contents of
>> the 'points' property.
> 
> Yes - basically "refreshing the graphic" would probably do it. I was trying
> to be efficient and avoid resending the graphic data if I didn't have to...
> 


From 3mcgrath at adelphia.net  Fri Feb 13 09:11:49 2004
From: 3mcgrath at adelphia.net (Thomas McGrath III)
Date: Fri, 13 Feb 2004 09:11:49 -0500
Subject: use-revolution Digest, Vol 5, Issue 123
In-Reply-To: <ENEALNOCJBOOOHHCCEKNGEAPFNAA.b.xavier@internet.lu>
References: <ENEALNOCJBOOOHHCCEKNGEAPFNAA.b.xavier@internet.lu>
Message-ID: <90912882-5E2E-11D8-85F5-000A95DA60FA@adelphia.net>

X,

Actually you can. I have been playing with environmental controls via 
X10 and MacBrick and Rev.

The MacBrick can monitor the environment via light, touch, temperature, 
sound, pressure, movement etc. and feed that to Rev, then Rev can 
control an X10 device like a light switch (on the other side of the 
house) or a camera or a servo motor ie. to start a watering system for 
the plants.
Also, X10 by it self has a few limited environment devices that can be 
triggered via movement, light etc. to then control itself.

The addition of lego mindstorm would make building little gadgets 
easier and more fun.

X, you being into racing should like this:
Last year I mounted a wireless X10 camera to a remote controlled truck. 
Then from the comfort of my room watching the road in front of the 
truck through the TV I can race the truck around the yard from a first 
person view. With out even having a line of sight on the truck.

Of course, people ask me why I do this and the only response I have is 
"Because it can be done and isn't it cool !!!!"

:-)

Tom


On Feb 13, 2004, at 1:38 AM, MisterX wrote:

>
> Can you teach it to water plants? ;)
>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: use-revolution-bounces at lists.runrev.com
>> [mailto:use-revolution-bounces at lists.runrev.com]On Behalf Of Thomas
>> McGrath III
>> Sent: Friday, February 13, 2004 05:31
>> To: How to use Revolution
>> Subject: Re: use-revolution Digest, Vol 5, Issue 123
>>
>>
>>
>> What I want to know is Lego Mindstorms controllable via
>> Revolution?????????
>> I think it is in the serial realm.......
>>
>> I know there is a Mac version out there last time I searched. I think
>> it was an educational version.
>>
>> I would love to play with Legos from my computer and Rev and X10.
>> Then I could have Rev react to environmental conditions and then
>> control my little bots to do cool stuff......
>>
>> Tom
>>
>>
>>>>
>>>> If you never have done so, play with some Lego Mindstorms. You'll
>>>> probably get some ideas.
>>>>
>>>> There is a Lego robotics lab at the new Explora in Albuquerque, NM. 
>>>> My
>>>> 4 year old son learned to program a bot in < 45 minutes! It's all
>>>> procedural, iconic and point-n-click!
>>>
>>>
>>
>> Thomas J. McGrath III
>> SCS
>> 1000 Killarney Dr.
>> Pittsburgh, PA 15234
>> 412-885-8541
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> use-revolution mailing list
>> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>
>

Thomas J. McGrath III
SCS
1000 Killarney Dr.
Pittsburgh, PA 15234
412-885-8541


From rcozens at pon.net  Fri Feb 13 08:17:40 2004
From: rcozens at pon.net (Rob Cozens)
Date: Fri, 13 Feb 2004 06:17:40 -0700
Subject: 10 bugs in 2 minutes time!
In-Reply-To:  <OF850D8E48.F6A3591F-ONC1256E39.00299CF9-C1256E39.002A0634@deutsche-boerse
 .de>
References:  <OF850D8E48.F6A3591F-ONC1256E39.00299CF9-C1256E39.002A0634@deutsche-boerse
 .de>
Message-ID: <a05100300bc527c6495cc@[66.52.165.172]>

>  >3.  There is an issue in the AB where one cannot change the relative
>>layers of controls in a group except when editing the group; however
>>I can change the relative layers of a group and a non-grouped control
>>at will.
>
>I was in whole-group selection mode. One newly created group overlapped
>the hidden field that is supposed to be topmost field. When I selected the
>field to send it on top, the "send to top" button never hilited! I did it
>manualy
>
>These kind of things shouldn't happen...

No argument from me on that, Xavier.

It seems to me the AB has problems dealing with newly-created 
controls immediately after a control is created.  Often I can't see 
the new control in the AB's list of card controls until I select a 
different card and reselect the original card.  Other times I can see 
an existing control in the list; but selecting it will not open its 
properties palette.

But changing the selected card/stack and reselecting the original 
make those problems go away, and I have no problems with relayering 
existing controls & groups so long as I edit a group before trying to 
change the layering of controls in the group.
-- 

Rob Cozens
CCW, Serendipity Software Company
http://www.oenolog.net/who.htm

"And I, which was two fooles, do so grow three;
Who are a little wise, the best fooles bee."

from "The Triple Foole" by John Donne (1572-1631)

From 3mcgrath at adelphia.net  Fri Feb 13 09:25:48 2004
From: 3mcgrath at adelphia.net (Thomas McGrath III)
Date: Fri, 13 Feb 2004 09:25:48 -0500
Subject: Drawers size
In-Reply-To: <BC51BFB8.9FB8%scott@tactilemedia.com>
References: <BC51BFB8.9FB8%scott@tactilemedia.com>
Message-ID: <84B67916-5E30-11D8-85F5-000A95DA60FA@adelphia.net>

Scott,

Yeah that's pretty much it. Except the draw will be on the outside of 
the circle (in  this case). But I see it will be pretty much the same 
thing.

Thank you

Tom

On Feb 13, 2004, at 2:41 AM, Scott Rossi wrote:

> go url "http://www.tactilemedia.com/download/drawertest.rev"

Thomas J. McGrath III
SCS
1000 Killarney Dr.
Pittsburgh, PA 15234
412-885-8541


From xbury.cs at clearstream.com  Fri Feb 13 09:32:49 2004
From: xbury.cs at clearstream.com (xbury.cs at clearstream.com)
Date: Fri, 13 Feb 2004 15:32:49 +0100
Subject: use-revolution Digest, Vol 5, Issue 123
Message-ID: <OFBBE90029.E8E7F3A0-ONC1256E39.004EC372-C1256E39.004FE918@deutsche-boerse.de>

Tom,

that's totally cool... I had a Fisher Technik that did the same kind of 
stuff
when I was a kid... No brick, or tv control then... But I had it hooked up 
to
my scalextrix (a track car racing thing) to raise bridges, count laps, and
do the photo-finish (via light control - no photo)...

The macBrick is mac only?

http://www.fischertechnik.de seem to still kick ass... I'll have some 
reading to do ;) 

Xa

On 13/02/2004 03:11:49 PM use-revolution-bounces wrote:
>X,
>
>Actually you can. I have been playing with environmental controls via
>X10 and MacBrick and Rev.
>
>The MacBrick can monitor the environment via light, touch, temperature,
>sound, pressure, movement etc. and feed that to Rev, then Rev can
>control an X10 device like a light switch (on the other side of the
>house) or a camera or a servo motor ie. to start a watering system for
>the plants.
>Also, X10 by it self has a few limited environment devices that can be
>triggered via movement, light etc. to then control itself.
>
>The addition of lego mindstorm would make building little gadgets
>easier and more fun.
>
>X, you being into racing should like this:
>Last year I mounted a wireless X10 camera to a remote controlled truck.
>Then from the comfort of my room watching the road in front of the
>truck through the TV I can race the truck around the yard from a first
>person view. With out even having a line of sight on the truck.
>
>Of course, people ask me why I do this and the only response I have is
>"Because it can be done and isn't it cool !!!!"
>
>:-)
>
>Tom
>
>
>On Feb 13, 2004, at 1:38 AM, MisterX wrote:
>
>>
>> Can you teach it to water plants? ;)
>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: use-revolution-bounces at lists.runrev.com
>>> [mailto:use-revolution-bounces at lists.runrev.com]On Behalf Of Thomas
>>> McGrath III
>>> Sent: Friday, February 13, 2004 05:31
>>> To: How to use Revolution
>>> Subject: Re: use-revolution Digest, Vol 5, Issue 123
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> What I want to know is Lego Mindstorms controllable via
>>> Revolution?????????
>>> I think it is in the serial realm.......
>>>
>>> I know there is a Mac version out there last time I searched. I think
>>> it was an educational version.
>>>
>>> I would love to play with Legos from my computer and Rev and X10.
>>> Then I could have Rev react to environmental conditions and then
>>> control my little bots to do cool stuff......
>>>
>>> Tom
>>>
>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> If you never have done so, play with some Lego Mindstorms. You'll
>>>>> probably get some ideas.
>>>>>
>>>>> There is a Lego robotics lab at the new Explora in Albuquerque, NM.
>>>>> My
>>>>> 4 year old son learned to program a bot in < 45 minutes! It's all
>>>>> procedural, iconic and point-n-click!
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>> Thomas J. McGrath III
>>> SCS
>>> 1000 Killarney Dr.
>>> Pittsburgh, PA 15234
>>> 412-885-8541
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> use-revolution mailing list
>>> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>> _______________________________________________
>> use-revolution mailing list
>> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>>
>>
>
>Thomas J. McGrath III
>SCS
>1000 Killarney Dr.
>Pittsburgh, PA 15234
>412-885-8541
>
>_______________________________________________
>use-revolution mailing list
>use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
>http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution

Visit us at http://www.clearstream.com
                                                          
IMPORTANT MESSAGE

Internet communications are not secure and therefore Clearstream International does not accept legal responsibility for the contents of this message.

The information contained in this e-mail is confidential and may be legally privileged. It is intended solely for the addressee. If you are not the intended recipient, any disclosure, copying, distribution or any action taken or omitted to be taken in reliance on it, is prohibited and may be unlawful. Any views expressed in this e-mail are those of the individual sender, except where the sender specifically states them to be the views of Clearstream International or of any of its affiliates or subsidiaries.

END OF DISCLAIMER

From soapdog at mac.com  Fri Feb 13 09:33:31 2004
From: soapdog at mac.com (Andre Garzia)
Date: Fri, 13 Feb 2004 12:33:31 -0200
Subject: Mindstorms and Revolution.
In-Reply-To: <5C322FDC-5DF7-11D8-B830-000A9567A3E6@swcp.com>
References: <5C322FDC-5DF7-11D8-B830-000A9567A3E6@swcp.com>
Message-ID: <98ED739A-5E31-11D8-9682-0003936D012E@mac.com>


I have a mindstorms set here, I once created my own scheme interpreter 
to fiddle with it. It was very very fun! although Scheme was not R5RS 
compliant and not all RCX features were implemented it showed that the 
task is easy.

I never tried serial communication with Rev, but if there's a way to do 
simple serial communication then you can control your RCX.

Cheers
Andre


On Feb 13, 2004, at 5:36 AM, Dar Scott wrote:

>
> On Thursday, February 12, 2004, at 11:33 PM, Sarah Reichelt wrote:
>
>> Come on Dar, you can't leave it at that :-)
>> How do you do it. The last time I investigated, you either had to 
>> have some VB dll in Windows or a mini C compiler in Macs. While I 
>> realize one can communicate directly via serial ports, how do you use 
>> this to program &/or control the robots?
>
> Look here for the low level commands:
>
>   http://graphics.stanford.edu/~kekoa/rcx/
>
> This hasn't been updated for a while, so you might want to save it 
> some place.  It might go away.  There are some detailed command 
> entries at that site.  You might find some better or confirming data.
>
> Some folks download a new OS and interpreter.  Variations of Forth, 
> Java and C are are popular.
>
> I'd consider doing this in three stages.  The right way to go might be 
> more obvious after tinkering.
>
> 1  Make something that sends and receives simple hex commands and test 
> tethered.  (See function rcx_send in the send.c example.)
>
> 2  Make commands and functions for control and sensing.  Do some 
> tethered projects with that.
>
> 3  Make a compiler from above plus program control to RCX commands.  
> Download those.  Turn the robot loose.
>
> Dar Scott
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>
>
-- 
Andre Alves Garzia ? 2004 ? BRAZIL
http://studio.soapdog.org


From Roger.E.Eller at sealedair.com  Fri Feb 13 09:33:43 2004
From: Roger.E.Eller at sealedair.com (Roger.E.Eller at sealedair.com)
Date: Fri, 13 Feb 2004 09:33:43 -0500
Subject: Windows appearance issues
Message-ID: <OF423560D7.1FB909C6-ON85256E39.004FCD0D@sealedair.com>

<shameless plug>
ButtonGadget ButtonGadget ButtonGadget ButtonGadget ButtonGadget
</shameless plug>

Gosh Chipp! How many plasma TVs to you need? hee hee

~Roger


From 3mcgrath at adelphia.net  Fri Feb 13 09:44:30 2004
From: 3mcgrath at adelphia.net (Thomas McGrath III)
Date: Fri, 13 Feb 2004 09:44:30 -0500
Subject: Drawers size
In-Reply-To: <A8855CB4-5E10-11D8-9A49-000A27B49A96@major-k.de>
References: <28123455-5D76-11D8-98B4-000A95DA60FA@adelphia.net>
	<B004CE8E-5D77-11D8-A4D8-000A27B49A96@major-k.de>
	<7370C88A-5DB0-11D8-928B-000A95DA60FA@adelphia.net>
	<A8855CB4-5E10-11D8-9A49-000A27B49A96@major-k.de>
Message-ID: <2144FCBD-5E33-11D8-85F5-000A95DA60FA@adelphia.net>

Klaus,

Apologies, Apologies, Apologies.....
You didn't offend me at all.....

I was frustrated and took it out on your response.

Yeah, sometimes email can not show that and I forget to explain myself 
in the heat of battle (with code).

You have been so helpful to me and I don't mean to offend you.

I can relate to your story below. I too get very tired at times when it 
seems like people want me to do it for them because they are too lazy.  
Or they act just too darn dumb, when I KNOW they are not dumb at all.

My humble apologies to you,

Thank you,

Tom

On Feb 13, 2004, at 5:37 AM, Klaus Major wrote:

> Hi Thomas McGrath III,
>
>> Klaus,
>>
>> I wasn't in the commode but, the way I went about it did not seem to 
>> work.
>> So I was hoping that some one with a bit more experience than me had 
>> done it.
>> I don't need someone to write the damn thing for me, just to tell me 
>> it's doable
>> and maybe a clue or two. Then I will pursue it to the full extents of 
>> my abilities.
>
> Sorry, i did not mean to offend you...
>
> I just had no idea :-)
>
> It might also be a good idea to mention that you already tried ;-)
>
>
> Some (few!) posts on this list do not give me that feeling and that's 
> a bit hard to
> deal with for me...
>
> Maybe that reminds me too much of the (darker) times when i was
> holding lessons for beginners:
>
> Only ONE blinking button on the screen, which reads (not literally ;-):
> "Click me!!! There's nothting else you can do!!!"
>
> And they still kept asking me:
> "Klaus, should i click that button now?"
>
> No kidding!!! :-D
>
>> Thank you
>>
>>
>> Tom
>
> Regards
>
> Klaus Major
> klaus at major-k.de
> www.major-k.de
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>
>

Thomas J. McGrath III
SCS
1000 Killarney Dr.
Pittsburgh, PA 15234
412-885-8541


From scott at tactilemedia.com  Fri Feb 13 09:51:54 2004
From: scott at tactilemedia.com (Scott Rossi)
Date: Fri, 13 Feb 2004 06:51:54 -0800
Subject: Drawers size
In-Reply-To: <84B67916-5E30-11D8-85F5-000A95DA60FA@adelphia.net>
Message-ID: <BC52248A.9FEC%scott@tactilemedia.com>

On 2/13/04 6:25 AM, "Thomas McGrath III" <3mcgrath at adelphia.net> wrote:

> Yeah that's pretty much it. Except the draw will be on the outside of
> the circle (in  this case). But I see it will be pretty much the same
> thing.

Then maybe something like this would work (uses a palette window):

  go url "http://www.tactilemedia.com/download/slider.rev"

Regards,

Scott Rossi
Creative Director
Tactile Media, Development & Design
-----
E: scott at tactilemedia.com
W: http://www.tactilemedia.com


From mpetrides at earthlink.net  Fri Feb 13 10:00:38 2004
From: mpetrides at earthlink.net (Marian Petrides)
Date: Fri, 13 Feb 2004 10:00:38 -0500
Subject: Trying to buy Dan's book
In-Reply-To: <7D5A52BA-5DD5-11D8-8039-0003936A2C42@mac.com>
References: <BC5181CF.4F39%pixelbird@interisland.net>
	<7D5A52BA-5DD5-11D8-8039-0003936A2C42@mac.com>
Message-ID: <622A2B28-5E35-11D8-BFA4-000A959D005E@earthlink.net>

>
I've been trying for several days to buy the downloadable 
(electronic/PDF) version of Dan Shafer's book but cannot find a link 
that takes me to where it is available.  All links I have found are for 
the hardcopy version which is  a) not immediately available and b) more 
expensive.  I could deal with the extra 10 bucks or so, if an order for 
the hardcopy also got me a link to the downloadable version--it's just 
that I need access to this book now, not when it can eventually get 
shipped to my home.

I tried to avoid posting something this trivial to this list but emails 
to Dan and RunRev have gone unanswered (perhaps unreceived since both 
Dan and RunRev are usually good about responding).

In any event, if anyone can point me to a spot where I can order the 
downloadable version???   Alternatively, can Dan or someone else 
confirm that ordering the hardcopy will give me a link to the 
downloadable version to use until the hardcopy arrives?

Thanks.

Marian


From 3mcgrath at adelphia.net  Fri Feb 13 10:02:15 2004
From: 3mcgrath at adelphia.net (Thomas McGrath III)
Date: Fri, 13 Feb 2004 10:02:15 -0500
Subject: use-revolution Digest, Vol 5, Issue 123
In-Reply-To: <OFBBE90029.E8E7F3A0-ONC1256E39.004EC372-C1256E39.004FE918@deutsche-boerse.de>
References: <OFBBE90029.E8E7F3A0-ONC1256E39.004EC372-C1256E39.004FE918@deutsche-boerse.de>
Message-ID: <9BF24FE6-5E35-11D8-85F5-000A95DA60FA@adelphia.net>

Xa,

The MacBrick is a cross platform piece of hardware (like the RCX that 
comes with Lego's Mindstorm). It is an I/O board. But the guy who is 
building them has taken an early retirement and there is no one to pick 
up the business.

He may still have a few left. I have been trying to figure a way to buy 
the business from him, but so far no luck/money on my side.
It uses serial commands.
The site is under a little construction but here it is.
http://www.macbrick.com/
http://www.macbrick.com/projects.html

Another idea I had was to take a part the radio controller for a car or 
helicopter and control the switches from my Computer via REV. Then I 
can record movements and replay them to the controller automatically. 
Imagine (very dangerous) having a helicopter take off, go up 75 feet, 
turn to the right for 20 seconds, turn left for 10, turn left for 10, 
turn left for 10, turn right for 10 and land in the same spot (or near 
it due to wind etc.)
Then attach my camera to the bottom/front of the helicopter and set it 
all up to a motion detector. This way when someone walks by it, it then 
takes off and the camera is set to the VCR for auto recording(very 
doable). This would be a 'floating' anti theft device that will record 
pictures from above.

Weird-Ideas-R-Us



Tom


On Feb 13, 2004, at 9:32 AM, xbury.cs at clearstream.com wrote:

> Tom,
>
> that's totally cool... I had a Fisher Technik that did the same kind of
> stuff
> when I was a kid... No brick, or tv control then... But I had it 
> hooked up
> to
> my scalextrix (a track car racing thing) to raise bridges, count laps, 
> and
> do the photo-finish (via light control - no photo)...
>
> The macBrick is mac only?
>
> http://www.fischertechnik.de seem to still kick ass... I'll have some
> reading to do ;)
>
> Xa
>
> On 13/02/2004 03:11:49 PM use-revolution-bounces wrote:
>> X,
>>
>> Actually you can. I have been playing with environmental controls via
>> X10 and MacBrick and Rev.
>>
>> The MacBrick can monitor the environment via light, touch, 
>> temperature,
>> sound, pressure, movement etc. and feed that to Rev, then Rev can
>> control an X10 device like a light switch (on the other side of the
>> house) or a camera or a servo motor ie. to start a watering system for
>> the plants.
>> Also, X10 by it self has a few limited environment devices that can be
>> triggered via movement, light etc. to then control itself.
>>
>> The addition of lego mindstorm would make building little gadgets
>> easier and more fun.
>>
>> X, you being into racing should like this:
>> Last year I mounted a wireless X10 camera to a remote controlled 
>> truck.
>> Then from the comfort of my room watching the road in front of the
>> truck through the TV I can race the truck around the yard from a first
>> person view. With out even having a line of sight on the truck.
>>
>> Of course, people ask me why I do this and the only response I have is
>> "Because it can be done and isn't it cool !!!!"
>>
>> :-)
>>
>> Tom
>>
>>
>> On Feb 13, 2004, at 1:38 AM, MisterX wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> Can you teach it to water plants? ;)
>>>
>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>> From: use-revolution-bounces at lists.runrev.com
>>>> [mailto:use-revolution-bounces at lists.runrev.com]On Behalf Of Thomas
>>>> McGrath III
>>>> Sent: Friday, February 13, 2004 05:31
>>>> To: How to use Revolution
>>>> Subject: Re: use-revolution Digest, Vol 5, Issue 123
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> What I want to know is Lego Mindstorms controllable via
>>>> Revolution?????????
>>>> I think it is in the serial realm.......
>>>>
>>>> I know there is a Mac version out there last time I searched. I 
>>>> think
>>>> it was an educational version.
>>>>
>>>> I would love to play with Legos from my computer and Rev and X10.
>>>> Then I could have Rev react to environmental conditions and then
>>>> control my little bots to do cool stuff......
>>>>
>>>> Tom
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> If you never have done so, play with some Lego Mindstorms. You'll
>>>>>> probably get some ideas.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> There is a Lego robotics lab at the new Explora in Albuquerque, 
>>>>>> NM.
>>>>>> My
>>>>>> 4 year old son learned to program a bot in < 45 minutes! It's all
>>>>>> procedural, iconic and point-n-click!
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Thomas J. McGrath III
>>>> SCS
>>>> 1000 Killarney Dr.
>>>> Pittsburgh, PA 15234
>>>> 412-885-8541
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> use-revolution mailing list
>>>> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
>>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> use-revolution mailing list
>>> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>>>
>>>
>>
>> Thomas J. McGrath III
>> SCS
>> 1000 Killarney Dr.
>> Pittsburgh, PA 15234
>> 412-885-8541
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> use-revolution mailing list
>> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>
> Visit us at http://www.clearstream.com
>
> IMPORTANT MESSAGE
>
> Internet communications are not secure and therefore Clearstream 
> International does not accept legal responsibility for the contents of 
> this message.
>
> The information contained in this e-mail is confidential and may be 
> legally privileged. It is intended solely for the addressee. If you 
> are not the intended recipient, any disclosure, copying, distribution 
> or any action taken or omitted to be taken in reliance on it, is 
> prohibited and may be unlawful. Any views expressed in this e-mail are 
> those of the individual sender, except where the sender specifically 
> states them to be the views of Clearstream International or of any of 
> its affiliates or subsidiaries.
>
> END OF DISCLAIMER
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>
>

Thomas J. McGrath III
SCS
1000 Killarney Dr.
Pittsburgh, PA 15234
412-885-8541


From klaus at major-k.de  Fri Feb 13 10:07:03 2004
From: klaus at major-k.de (Klaus Major)
Date: Fri, 13 Feb 2004 16:07:03 +0100
Subject: Drawers size
In-Reply-To: <2144FCBD-5E33-11D8-85F5-000A95DA60FA@adelphia.net>
References: <28123455-5D76-11D8-98B4-000A95DA60FA@adelphia.net>
	<B004CE8E-5D77-11D8-A4D8-000A27B49A96@major-k.de>
	<7370C88A-5DB0-11D8-928B-000A95DA60FA@adelphia.net>
	<A8855CB4-5E10-11D8-9A49-000A27B49A96@major-k.de>
	<2144FCBD-5E33-11D8-85F5-000A95DA60FA@adelphia.net>
Message-ID: <482D02F4-5E36-11D8-9A49-000A27B49A96@major-k.de>

Hi Thomas McGrath III,

> Klaus,
>
> Apologies, Apologies, Apologies.....
> You didn't offend me at all.....
>
> I was frustrated and took it out on your response.
> Yeah, sometimes email can not show that and I forget to explain
> myself in the heat of battle (with code).
> You have been so helpful to me and I don't mean to offend you.
>
> I can relate to your story below. I too get very tired at times when 
> it seems
> like people want me to do it for them because they are too lazy.

Yo!

> Or they act just too darn dumb, when I KNOW they are not dumb at all.

Exactly!

> My humble apologies to you,

OK, looks like everything is cleared out now ;-)

Have a nice weekend...

> Thank you,
>
> Tom

Regards

Klaus Major
klaus at major-k.de
www.major-k.de


From 3mcgrath at adelphia.net  Fri Feb 13 10:10:42 2004
From: 3mcgrath at adelphia.net (Thomas McGrath III)
Date: Fri, 13 Feb 2004 10:10:42 -0500
Subject: Drawers size
In-Reply-To: <BC52248A.9FEC%scott@tactilemedia.com>
References: <BC52248A.9FEC%scott@tactilemedia.com>
Message-ID: <CA8825FE-5E36-11D8-85F5-000A95DA60FA@adelphia.net>

That would be it.

Thank you Scott, That is what I will do.

This is a freebie project for a worthwhile organization and I think 
that is why I am getting all of this great feedback.
It's Karma......

Thanks

Tom

On Feb 13, 2004, at 9:51 AM, Scott Rossi wrote:

>   go url "http://www.tactilemedia.com/download/slider.rev"

Macintosh PowerBook G-4 OSX 10.3.1, OS 9.2.2, 1.25 GHz, 512MB RAM, Rev 
2.1.2


Advanced Media Group
Thomas J McGrath III	? 2003 ?	3mcgrath at adelphia.net
220 Drake Road, Bethel Park, PA 15102




From 3mcgrath at adelphia.net  Fri Feb 13 10:13:28 2004
From: 3mcgrath at adelphia.net (Thomas McGrath III)
Date: Fri, 13 Feb 2004 10:13:28 -0500
Subject: Drawers size
In-Reply-To: <482D02F4-5E36-11D8-9A49-000A27B49A96@major-k.de>
References: <28123455-5D76-11D8-98B4-000A95DA60FA@adelphia.net>
	<B004CE8E-5D77-11D8-A4D8-000A27B49A96@major-k.de>
	<7370C88A-5DB0-11D8-928B-000A95DA60FA@adelphia.net>
	<A8855CB4-5E10-11D8-9A49-000A27B49A96@major-k.de>
	<2144FCBD-5E33-11D8-85F5-000A95DA60FA@adelphia.net>
	<482D02F4-5E36-11D8-9A49-000A27B49A96@major-k.de>
Message-ID: <2D633B25-5E37-11D8-85F5-000A95DA60FA@adelphia.net>

After spending an hour on this list I always feel better.....

So Thanks and you have a good weekend too....


Tom

On Feb 13, 2004, at 10:07 AM, Klaus Major wrote:

> Hi Thomas McGrath III,
>
>> Klaus,
>>
>> Apologies, Apologies, Apologies.....
>> You didn't offend me at all.....
>>
>> I was frustrated and took it out on your response.
>> Yeah, sometimes email can not show that and I forget to explain
>> myself in the heat of battle (with code).
>> You have been so helpful to me and I don't mean to offend you.
>>
>> I can relate to your story below. I too get very tired at times when 
>> it seems
>> like people want me to do it for them because they are too lazy.
>
> Yo!
>
>> Or they act just too darn dumb, when I KNOW they are not dumb at all.
>
> Exactly!
>
>> My humble apologies to you,
>
> OK, looks like everything is cleared out now ;-)
>
> Have a nice weekend...
>
>> Thank you,
>>
>> Tom
>
> Regards
>
> Klaus Major
> klaus at major-k.de
> www.major-k.de
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>
>

Thomas J. McGrath III
SCS
1000 Killarney Dr.
Pittsburgh, PA 15234
412-885-8541


From gizmotron at earthlink.net  Fri Feb 13 10:18:15 2004
From: gizmotron at earthlink.net (Mark Brownell)
Date: Fri, 13 Feb 2004 07:18:15 -0800
Subject: itemDelimiter
In-Reply-To: <4C19925B-5DCC-11D8-BC79-000A9580FCCE@backtalk.com>
Message-ID: <D8BD1FF1-5E37-11D8-B320-000A95859272@earthlink.net>


On Thursday, February 12, 2004, at 06:28  PM, Frank Leahy wrote:

> An easier way to get the number of paragraphs would be:
>
> put the keys of theParagraphArray into theKeys
> put the number of lines of theKeys into numParagraphs
>
> -- Frank

That's interesting. I'm always learning new tricks around here. I would 
have to run a clean up script when new iterations of theParagraphArray 
where used. I like anything that is faster than a repeat loop and in 
this case fewer lines.

Thanks,

Mark


From ian at azurevision.co.uk  Fri Feb 13 10:25:20 2004
From: ian at azurevision.co.uk (Ian Wood)
Date: Fri, 13 Feb 2004 15:25:20 +0000
Subject: Controlling Real Objects was: Digest, Vol 5, Issue 123
In-Reply-To: <9BF24FE6-5E35-11D8-85F5-000A95DA60FA@adelphia.net>
References: 	<OFBBE90029.E8E7F3A0-ONC1256E39.004EC372-C1256E39.004FE918@deutsche-boerse.de>
	<9BF24FE6-5E35-11D8-85F5-000A95DA60FA@adelphia.net>
Message-ID: <D5EA7366-5E38-11D8-9B9E-0003935A2896@azurevision.co.uk>

It might also be worth looking at the Teleo system from 
www.makingthings.com.  This is a system of electronic modules connected 
to the computer via USB, with servo controllers, stepper drivers, 
digital & analogue I/O, the works.

They are controlled using generic C, with SDKs for the system as a 
whole and for individual modules.  There are also externals for 
Cycling74's MAX/MSP, which allows you to visually build control 
flowcharts (and a few other things as well).

If anyone wants to build a Rev external for Mac OS, they will get some 
of my money...

Ian


On 13 Feb 2004, at 15:02, Thomas McGrath III wrote:

> Xa,
>
> The MacBrick is a cross platform piece of hardware (like the RCX that 
> comes with Lego's Mindstorm). It is an I/O board. But the guy who is 
> building them has taken an early retirement and there is no one to 
> pick up the business.
>
> He may still have a few left. I have been trying to figure a way to 
> buy the business from him, but so far no luck/money on my side.
> It uses serial commands.
> The site is under a little construction but here it is.
> http://www.macbrick.com/
> http://www.macbrick.com/projects.html
>
> Another idea I had was to take a part the radio controller for a car 
> or helicopter and control the switches from my Computer via REV. Then 
> I can record movements and replay them to the controller 
> automatically. Imagine (very dangerous) having a helicopter take off, 
> go up 75 feet, turn to the right for 20 seconds, turn left for 10, 
> turn left for 10, turn left for 10, turn right for 10 and land in the 
> same spot (or near it due to wind etc.)
> Then attach my camera to the bottom/front of the helicopter and set it 
> all up to a motion detector. This way when someone walks by it, it 
> then takes off and the camera is set to the VCR for auto 
> recording(very doable). This would be a 'floating' anti theft device 
> that will record pictures from above.
>
> Weird-Ideas-R-Us
>
>
>
> Tom
>
>
> On Feb 13, 2004, at 9:32 AM, xbury.cs at clearstream.com wrote:
>
>> Tom,
>>
>> that's totally cool... I had a Fisher Technik that did the same kind 
>> of
>> stuff
>> when I was a kid... No brick, or tv control then... But I had it 
>> hooked up
>> to
>> my scalextrix (a track car racing thing) to raise bridges, count 
>> laps, and
>> do the photo-finish (via light control - no photo)...
>>
>> The macBrick is mac only?
>>
>> http://www.fischertechnik.de seem to still kick ass... I'll have some
>> reading to do ;)
>>
>> Xa
>>

<snip>


From gizmotron at earthlink.net  Fri Feb 13 10:33:11 2004
From: gizmotron at earthlink.net (Mark Brownell)
Date: Fri, 13 Feb 2004 07:33:11 -0800
Subject: itemDelimiter
In-Reply-To: <p06010247bc51f0f8a2b7@[10.0.1.3]>
Message-ID: <EE388060-5E39-11D8-B320-000A95859272@earthlink.net>


On Thursday, February 12, 2004, at 07:12  PM, Jeanne A. E. DeVoto wrote:

> Even easier:
>
>   put the number of lines in the keys of theParagraphArray into 
> numParagraphs
> -- 
> jeanne a. e. devoto

groovy daddio, like cool


From revolution at duncansoftware.com  Fri Feb 13 10:31:15 2004
From: revolution at duncansoftware.com (Stu Duncan)
Date: Fri, 13 Feb 2004 10:31:15 -0500
Subject: Short Names/Dos Names/8.3
Message-ID: <006301c3f246$6cb660b0$1402a8c0@Dell8250>

get shell("attrib -r C:\Program Files\Science Suite\*.* /S /D") doesn't
work.
get shell("attrib -r C:\Progra~1\Scienc~1\*.* /S /D") does work

I presume that it is the long file names (with spaces) that are the problem.
In my program the path is actually a variable. How do I get the short names
for Windows paths from within Rev?

Stu



From klaus at major-k.de  Fri Feb 13 10:44:26 2004
From: klaus at major-k.de (Klaus Major)
Date: Fri, 13 Feb 2004 16:44:26 +0100
Subject: Short Names/Dos Names/8.3
In-Reply-To: <006301c3f246$6cb660b0$1402a8c0@Dell8250>
References: <006301c3f246$6cb660b0$1402a8c0@Dell8250>
Message-ID: <80E7F3CB-5E3B-11D8-9A49-000A27B49A96@major-k.de>

Hi Stu,

> get shell("attrib -r C:\Program Files\Science Suite\*.* /S /D") doesn't
> work.

i am not sure but try:

get shell("attrib -r" && "C:\Program Files\Science Suite\*.*" &&  "/S 
/D")

It's the space in the path, that causes problems...

> get shell("attrib -r C:\Progra~1\Scienc~1\*.* /S /D") does work

Yeah, but i could never get used to this... ;-)

> I presume that it is the long file names (with spaces) that are the 
> problem.
> In my program the path is actually a variable. How do I get the short 
> names
> for Windows paths from within Rev?

Sorry, no idea...

> Stu

Hope that helps...


Regards

Klaus Major
klaus at major-k.de
www.major-k.de


From xbury.cs at clearstream.com  Fri Feb 13 10:51:08 2004
From: xbury.cs at clearstream.com (xbury.cs at clearstream.com)
Date: Fri, 13 Feb 2004 16:51:08 +0100
Subject: Controlling Real Objects was: Digest, Vol 5, Issue 123
Message-ID: <OF649F26A6.EA46E2B8-ONC1256E39.005586C7-C1256E39.005714A0@deutsche-boerse.de>

Ian,

The fisherteknick system seems a lot more complete. Like the lego
it has a long experience in building all kinds of machines (much more 
than lego IMOHO) and they provide also a visual programming system
plus the usual other languages and even IR remote control...

http://www.fischertechnik.de - click on products and then computing.
Check out the other products for all their modules (all the mechanics 
including gear boxes and differentials, robots, optic-electronic-digital 
relays and controls, you name it... What's nice about it too is that they 
have
lots of nice building infrastructure kits for different purposes...

there's a little english flag on the top right corner for us 
anglophones...

I didn't get the lego tecknik when I was a kid, but FT got me into all the 

good stuff... The kits built with FT are also sturdier and more flexible 
than legos!

cheers
Xavier

On 13/02/2004 04:25:20 PM use-revolution-bounces wrote:
>It might also be worth looking at the Teleo system from
>www.makingthings.com.  This is a system of electronic modules connected
>to the computer via USB, with servo controllers, stepper drivers,
>digital & analogue I/O, the works.
>
>They are controlled using generic C, with SDKs for the system as a
>whole and for individual modules.  There are also externals for
>Cycling74's MAX/MSP, which allows you to visually build control
>flowcharts (and a few other things as well).
>
>If anyone wants to build a Rev external for Mac OS, they will get some
>of my money...
>
>Ian
>
>
>On 13 Feb 2004, at 15:02, Thomas McGrath III wrote:
>
>> Xa,
>>
>> The MacBrick is a cross platform piece of hardware (like the RCX that
>> comes with Lego's Mindstorm). It is an I/O board. But the guy who is
>> building them has taken an early retirement and there is no one to
>> pick up the business.
>>
>> He may still have a few left. I have been trying to figure a way to
>> buy the business from him, but so far no luck/money on my side.
>> It uses serial commands.
>> The site is under a little construction but here it is.
>> http://www.macbrick.com/
>> http://www.macbrick.com/projects.html
>>
>> Another idea I had was to take a part the radio controller for a car
>> or helicopter and control the switches from my Computer via REV. Then
>> I can record movements and replay them to the controller
>> automatically. Imagine (very dangerous) having a helicopter take off,
>> go up 75 feet, turn to the right for 20 seconds, turn left for 10,
>> turn left for 10, turn left for 10, turn right for 10 and land in the
>> same spot (or near it due to wind etc.)
>> Then attach my camera to the bottom/front of the helicopter and set it
>> all up to a motion detector. This way when someone walks by it, it
>> then takes off and the camera is set to the VCR for auto
>> recording(very doable). This would be a 'floating' anti theft device
>> that will record pictures from above.
>>
>> Weird-Ideas-R-Us
>>
>>
>>
>> Tom
>>
>>
>> On Feb 13, 2004, at 9:32 AM, xbury.cs at clearstream.com wrote:
>>
>>> Tom,
>>>
>>> that's totally cool... I had a Fisher Technik that did the same kind
>>> of
>>> stuff
>>> when I was a kid... No brick, or tv control then... But I had it
>>> hooked up
>>> to
>>> my scalextrix (a track car racing thing) to raise bridges, count
>>> laps, and
>>> do the photo-finish (via light control - no photo)...
>>>
>>> The macBrick is mac only?
>>>
>>> http://www.fischertechnik.de seem to still kick ass... I'll have some
>>> reading to do ;)
>>>
>>> Xa
>>>
>
><snip>
>
>_______________________________________________
>use-revolution mailing list
>use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
>http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution

Visit us at http://www.clearstream.com
                                                          
IMPORTANT MESSAGE

Internet communications are not secure and therefore Clearstream International does not accept legal responsibility for the contents of this message.

The information contained in this e-mail is confidential and may be legally privileged. It is intended solely for the addressee. If you are not the intended recipient, any disclosure, copying, distribution or any action taken or omitted to be taken in reliance on it, is prohibited and may be unlawful. Any views expressed in this e-mail are those of the individual sender, except where the sender specifically states them to be the views of Clearstream International or of any of its affiliates or subsidiaries.

END OF DISCLAIMER

From xbury.cs at clearstream.com  Fri Feb 13 10:53:12 2004
From: xbury.cs at clearstream.com (xbury.cs at clearstream.com)
Date: Fri, 13 Feb 2004 16:53:12 +0100
Subject: Short Names/Dos Names/8.3
Message-ID: <OFD234B4E9.BD14DA68-ONC1256E39.0057203E-C1256E39.005744D3@deutsche-boerse.de>

Stu,

get shell("attrib -r" && quote & "C:\Program Files\Science Suite\*.*" & 
quote && "/S /D")

should work. A space or ampersand char* in the path requires the path to 
be in quotes...


On 13/02/2004 04:31:15 PM use-revolution-bounces wrote:
>get shell("attrib -r C:\Program Files\Science Suite\*.* /S /D") doesn't
>work.
>get shell("attrib -r C:\Progra~1\Scienc~1\*.* /S /D") does work
>
>I presume that it is the long file names (with spaces) that are the 
problem.
>In my program the path is actually a variable. How do I get the short 
names
>for Windows paths from within Rev?
>
>Stu
>
>
>_______________________________________________
>use-revolution mailing list
>use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
>http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution

Visit us at http://www.clearstream.com
                                                          
IMPORTANT MESSAGE

Internet communications are not secure and therefore Clearstream International does not accept legal responsibility for the contents of this message.

The information contained in this e-mail is confidential and may be legally privileged. It is intended solely for the addressee. If you are not the intended recipient, any disclosure, copying, distribution or any action taken or omitted to be taken in reliance on it, is prohibited and may be unlawful. Any views expressed in this e-mail are those of the individual sender, except where the sender specifically states them to be the views of Clearstream International or of any of its affiliates or subsidiaries.

END OF DISCLAIMER

From shedrup at ms9.hinet.net  Fri Feb 13 10:56:02 2004
From: shedrup at ms9.hinet.net (Friedrich F. Grohmann)
Date: Fri, 13 Feb 2004 23:56:02 +0800
Subject: copy problems
Message-ID: <200402131554.XAA17306@msr63.hinet.net>

Thanks to Stephen Quinn Barncard and  Yves Coppe whose replies gave me at 
least the solace that I am not alone with those problems. I just bought a 
copy of the latest Nisus incarnation which is OS X native, and will check 
whether the situation improves or troubles can be even avoided 
altogether. 


Stephen wrote:

>I have had problems using the clipboard between Classic and OSX 
>Panther. Seems to be a big wall there....can you get a copy of Nisus 
>for OSX?

And Yves said:

>I encounter the same problem between the mac OS 9 clipboard and Mac oS 
>X Rev version and other mac OS 9 Apps.

From revolution at duncansoftware.com  Fri Feb 13 11:05:17 2004
From: revolution at duncansoftware.com (Stu Duncan)
Date: Fri, 13 Feb 2004 11:05:17 -0500
Subject: Short Names/Dos Names/8.3
References: <006301c3f246$6cb660b0$1402a8c0@Dell8250>
	<80E7F3CB-5E3B-11D8-9A49-000A27B49A96@major-k.de>
Message-ID: <007f01c3f24b$2d9b3040$1402a8c0@Dell8250>

Thanks Klaus but that didn't work.

get shell("attrib -r" && "C:\Program Files\Science Suite\*.*" &&  "/S  /D")
fails but when I shorten it to
get shell("attrib -r" && "C:\Progra~1\Scienc~1\*.*" &&  "/S  /D")
it works.

I could take a chance and just change the long file names in rev but I would
get caught where someone had two paths such as:
C:\Program Files\Science and Man
and
C:\Program Files\Science Suite

which would both translate into C:\Program Files\Scienc~1

However Windows would name them 1 and 2.

I suppose the long winded solution is to check for the duplicate names but
then I still wouldn't know which was 1 and which was 2 from Windows(DOS)
point of view.

Thanks for your help.

Stu


----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Klaus Major" <klaus at major-k.de>
To: <revolution at duncansoftware.com>; "How to use Revolution"
<use-revolution at lists.runrev.com>
Sent: Friday, February 13, 2004 10:44 AM
Subject: Re: Short Names/Dos Names/8.3


> Hi Stu,
>
> > get shell("attrib -r C:\Program Files\Science Suite\*.* /S /D") doesn't
> > work.
>
> i am not sure but try:
>
> get shell("attrib -r" && "C:\Program Files\Science Suite\*.*" &&  "/S
> /D")
>
> It's the space in the path, that causes problems...
>
> > get shell("attrib -r C:\Progra~1\Scienc~1\*.* /S /D") does work
>
> Yeah, but i could never get used to this... ;-)
>
> > I presume that it is the long file names (with spaces) that are the
> > problem.
> > In my program the path is actually a variable. How do I get the short
> > names
> > for Windows paths from within Rev?
>
> Sorry, no idea...
>
> > Stu
>
> Hope that helps...
>
>
> Regards
>
> Klaus Major
> klaus at major-k.de
> www.major-k.de
>
>



From devin_asay at byu.edu  Fri Feb 13 11:05:04 2004
From: devin_asay at byu.edu (Devin Asay)
Date: Fri, 13 Feb 2004 09:05:04 -0700
Subject: Function output-a bug or a feature?
In-Reply-To: <20040213155348.300C893037C@mail.runrev.com>
References: <20040213155348.300C893037C@mail.runrev.com>
Message-ID: <6274E9F1-5E3E-11D8-B29D-000A95A6A138@byu.edu>

I sent this a few days ago but I never saw it hit the list. Apologies 
if some of you got it twice.
-DNA

Here's the recipe:

Create a new mainstack.
Create a field on the card.
Open the stack script and write a simple function handler. I used this 
one:

	function cube theNumber
	   return theNumber^3
	end cube

Open the message box and call the new function:
	put cube(3) -- works perfectly, the result is displayed in the message 
box.

However, try putting the output of the function into the field:
	put cube(3) into fld 1 -- the output goes into the message box, not 
the field.

If you try this with a standard Transcript function:
	put sqrt(4) into fld 1 -- works as expected, with output to the field.

Has this always (not) worked like this? Have I just missed it all these 
years? I could swear I've done this successfully before.

Devin Asay
Humanities Technology and Research Support Center
Brigham Young University


From revolution at duncansoftware.com  Fri Feb 13 11:11:20 2004
From: revolution at duncansoftware.com (Stu Duncan)
Date: Fri, 13 Feb 2004 11:11:20 -0500
Subject: Short Names/Dos Names/8.3
References: <OFD234B4E9.BD14DA68-ONC1256E39.0057203E-C1256E39.005744D3@deutsche-boerse.de>
Message-ID: <008e01c3f24c$06154780$1402a8c0@Dell8250>

Yippee!!
That got it.
get shell("attrib -r" && quote & "C:\Program Files\Science Suite\*.*" & quote && "/S /D") works as hoped for.
That takes care of WinXP, now on to all of those other nasty Windows versions.

Thanks for your help.

Stu


  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: xbury.cs at clearstream.com 
  To: revolution at duncansoftware.com ; How to use Revolution 
  Sent: Friday, February 13, 2004 10:53 AM
  Subject: Re: Short Names/Dos Names/8.3



  Stu, 

  get shell("attrib -r" && quote & "C:\Program Files\Science Suite\*.*" & quote && "/S /D") 

  should work. A space or ampersand char* in the path requires the path to be in quotes... 


  On 13/02/2004 04:31:15 PM use-revolution-bounces wrote:
  >get shell("attrib -r C:\Program Files\Science Suite\*.* /S /D") doesn't
  >work.
  >get shell("attrib -r C:\Progra~1\Scienc~1\*.* /S /D") does work
  >
  >I presume that it is the long file names (with spaces) that are the problem.
  >In my program the path is actually a variable. How do I get the short names
  >for Windows paths from within Rev?
  >
  >Stu
  >
  >
  >_______________________________________________
  >use-revolution mailing list
  >use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
  >http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution

  Visit us at http://www.clearstream.com

  IMPORTANT MESSAGE

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From klaus at major-k.de  Fri Feb 13 11:12:15 2004
From: klaus at major-k.de (Klaus Major)
Date: Fri, 13 Feb 2004 17:12:15 +0100
Subject: Short Names/Dos Names/8.3
In-Reply-To: <007f01c3f24b$2d9b3040$1402a8c0@Dell8250>
References: <006301c3f246$6cb660b0$1402a8c0@Dell8250>
	<80E7F3CB-5E3B-11D8-9A49-000A27B49A96@major-k.de>
	<007f01c3f24b$2d9b3040$1402a8c0@Dell8250>
Message-ID: <639A5EB8-5E3F-11D8-9A49-000A27B49A96@major-k.de>

Hi Stu,

> Thanks Klaus but that didn't work.
>
> get shell("attrib -r" && "C:\Program Files\Science Suite\*.*" &&  "/S  
> /D")
> fails but when I shorten it to
> get shell("attrib -r" && "C:\Progra~1\Scienc~1\*.*" &&  "/S  /D")
> it works.
>
> I could take a chance and just change the long file names in rev but I 
> would
> get caught where someone had two paths such as:
> C:\Program Files\Science and Man
> and
> C:\Program Files\Science Suite
>
> which would both translate into C:\Program Files\Scienc~1
>
> However Windows would name them 1 and 2.
>
> I suppose the long winded solution is to check for the duplicate names 
> but
> then I still wouldn't know which was 1 and which was 2 from 
> Windows(DOS)
> point of view.
>
> Thanks for your help.
>
> Stu

i think Mr. X gave the correct answer!

get shell("attrib -r" && quote & "C:\Program Files\Science Suite\*.*" &
quote && "/S /D")

ONE line, of course

I knew it was something about quotes and spaces... ;-)


Regards

Klaus Major
klaus at major-k.de
www.major-k.de


From klaus at major-k.de  Fri Feb 13 11:18:43 2004
From: klaus at major-k.de (Klaus Major)
Date: Fri, 13 Feb 2004 17:18:43 +0100
Subject: Function output-a bug or a feature?
In-Reply-To: <6274E9F1-5E3E-11D8-B29D-000A95A6A138@byu.edu>
References: <20040213155348.300C893037C@mail.runrev.com>
	<6274E9F1-5E3E-11D8-B29D-000A95A6A138@byu.edu>
Message-ID: <4AF70A8D-5E40-11D8-9A49-000A27B49A96@major-k.de>

Hi Devin,

> I sent this a few days ago but I never saw it hit the list. Apologies 
> if some of you got it twice.
> -DNA

This one suggests a prename like "Gene" :-D

> Here's the recipe:
>
> Create a new mainstack.
> Create a field on the card.
> Open the stack script and write a simple function handler. I used this 
> one:
>
> 	function cube theNumber
> 	   return theNumber^3
> 	end cube
>
> Open the message box and call the new function:
> 	put cube(3) -- works perfectly, the result is displayed in the 
> message box.

Works...

> However, try putting the output of the function into the field:
> 	put cube(3) into fld 1 -- the output goes into the message box, not 
> the field.

Tried here and it works with a field...!?

> If you try this with a standard Transcript function:
> 	put sqrt(4) into fld 1 -- works as expected, with output to the field.
> Has this always (not) worked like this? Have I just missed it all 
> these years?
> I could swear I've done this successfully before.

Works here and should work for you...!?

> Devin Asay
> Humanities Technology and Research Support Center
> Brigham Young University

Sorry, totally clueless...


Regards

Klaus Major
klaus at major-k.de
www.major-k.de


From rcozens at pon.net  Fri Feb 13 11:11:23 2004
From: rcozens at pon.net (Rob Cozens)
Date: Fri, 13 Feb 2004 09:11:23 -0700
Subject: Function output-a bug or a feature?
In-Reply-To: <6274E9F1-5E3E-11D8-B29D-000A95A6A138@byu.edu>
References: <20040213155348.300C893037C@mail.runrev.com>
 <6274E9F1-5E3E-11D8-B29D-000A95A6A138@byu.edu>
Message-ID: <a05100302bc52a5de548d@[66.52.165.221]>

>Open the message box and call the new function:
>	put cube(3) -- works perfectly, the result is displayed in 
>the message box.
>
>However, try putting the output of the function into the field:
>	put cube(3) into fld 1 -- the output goes into the message 
>box, not the field.
>
>If you try this with a standard Transcript function:
>	put sqrt(4) into fld 1 -- works as expected, with output to the field.
>
>Has this always (not) worked like this? Have I just missed it all 
>these years? I could swear I've done this successfully before.

Devin,

Don't know if it applies here, but I have had occasions where

	put someThing&&[someFunction reference]&&someThingElse into ...

had to be rewritten

	get [someFunction reference]
	put someThing&&it&&someThingElse into ...

to get the desired result.  Don't know why this is.

You might try:

	put (cube(3)) into fld 1

or
	put value(cube(3)) into fld 1
-- 

Rob Cozens
CCW, Serendipity Software Company
http://www.oenolog.net/who.htm

"And I, which was two fooles, do so grow three;
Who are a little wise, the best fooles bee."

from "The Triple Foole" by John Donne (1572-1631)

From scott at tactilemedia.com  Fri Feb 13 12:18:58 2004
From: scott at tactilemedia.com (Scott Rossi)
Date: Fri, 13 Feb 2004 09:18:58 -0800
Subject: Short Names/Dos Names/8.3
In-Reply-To: <80E7F3CB-5E3B-11D8-9A49-000A27B49A96@major-k.de>
Message-ID: <BC524702.A010%scott@tactilemedia.com>

>> How do I get the short names for Windows paths from within Rev?

Is the shortFilePath function usable?

Regards,

Scott Rossi
Creative Director
Tactile Media, Development & Design
-----
E: scott at tactilemedia.com
W: http://www.tactilemedia.com


From 3mcgrath at adelphia.net  Fri Feb 13 12:33:25 2004
From: 3mcgrath at adelphia.net (Thomas McGrath III)
Date: Fri, 13 Feb 2004 12:33:25 -0500
Subject: Drawers size
In-Reply-To: <BC52248A.9FEC%scott@tactilemedia.com>
References: <BC52248A.9FEC%scott@tactilemedia.com>
Message-ID: <BA6301B6-5E4A-11D8-85F5-000A95DA60FA@adelphia.net>

Scott,

Thanks, I put your code in and modified it for my needs and now it 
works great.
I set the drawer to slide out the bottom. (works as good as drawer 
works, maybe even better)
I set the drawer to move on drag of the main window.
Because you made the main stack a palette (I didn't think of that) it 
disappears when another app is open (this is a feature) and is visible 
when this standalone is in front. But I also made a check box for 
floating the window as a system window and then it still stays a 
palette but doesn't go away and it floats above everything. (Big 
feature)

I don't have permission to distribute this 'yet' but you can check it 
out:
It is set to check the main website for a new Just for Today message 
every half hour but the site only updates once a day.

go url "http://users.adelphia.net/~3mcgrath/JFT.rev"

If you build it as an app it is even better.

Tom

On Feb 13, 2004, at 9:51 AM, Scott Rossi wrote:

> On 2/13/04 6:25 AM, "Thomas McGrath III" <3mcgrath at adelphia.net> wrote:
>
>> Yeah that's pretty much it. Except the draw will be on the outside of
>> the circle (in  this case). But I see it will be pretty much the same
>> thing.
>
> Then maybe something like this would work (uses a palette window):
>
>   go url "http://www.tactilemedia.com/download/slider.rev"
>
> Regards,
>
> Scott Rossi
> Creative Director
> Tactile Media, Development & Design
> -----
> E: scott at tactilemedia.com
> W: http://www.tactilemedia.com
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>
>

Thomas J. McGrath III
SCS
1000 Killarney Dr.
Pittsburgh, PA 15234
412-885-8541


From alex at mindlube.com  Fri Feb 13 13:21:49 2004
From: alex at mindlube.com (Alex Rice)
Date: Fri, 13 Feb 2004 11:21:49 -0700
Subject: Function output-a bug or a feature?
In-Reply-To: <4AF70A8D-5E40-11D8-9A49-000A27B49A96@major-k.de>
References: <20040213155348.300C893037C@mail.runrev.com>
	<6274E9F1-5E3E-11D8-B29D-000A95A6A138@byu.edu>
	<4AF70A8D-5E40-11D8-9A49-000A27B49A96@major-k.de>
Message-ID: <7D88B085-5E51-11D8-A712-000393C4760A@mindlube.com>


On Feb 13, 2004, at 9:18 AM, Klaus Major wrote:

> Works here and should work for you...!?
> Sorry, totally clueless...

Klause, try it from the message box; it does not work. Here is my 
response from last time:


On Feb 11, 2004, at 8:28 AM, Devin Asay wrote:

> However, try putting the output of the function into the field:
> 	put cube(3) into fld 1 -- the output goes into the message box, not 
> the field.

It seems like a message box bug to me!



--
Alex Rice | Mindlube Software | http://mindlube.com


From mlindley at telusplanet.net  Fri Feb 13 13:25:57 2004
From: mlindley at telusplanet.net (m)
Date: Fri, 13 Feb 2004 11:25:57 -0700
Subject: My pop up menu deselects my text...
Message-ID: <01d301c3f25e$d4846580$84a2a2d1@unknown>

I am trying to create a context pop up menu that allows you to simply
copy text.  
 
Problem:  the ?popup? command works just fine, but as soon as my menu
pops up, my selected text is deselected.
 
I have a goofy work around right now where I just throw the selected
text into a container and then change it?s color (so you know what was
highlighted) before popping up the context menu.
 
But I need to be able to pop up the menu while keeping my text selected
(like all word processors do).
 
What am I missing?
 

From b.xavier at internet.lu  Fri Feb 13 13:40:51 2004
From: b.xavier at internet.lu (MisterX)
Date: Fri, 13 Feb 2004 19:40:51 +0100
Subject: Short Names/Dos Names/8.3
In-Reply-To: <BC524702.A010%scott@tactilemedia.com>
Message-ID: <ENEALNOCJBOOOHHCCEKNAEBLFNAA.b.xavier@internet.lu>

do you mean the %path% environment variable
where all the executable's are located?

get shell("path")

which is the same as 

get $path

--

And for the faq of it...

answer shell("help")

or

repeat for each line x of shell("help")
  get it & cr & cr & shell("help" && word 1 of x)
end repeat

answer it

;) untested naturally

and if you like 8.3 names, 

  put shell("dir /X")

--
http://monsieurx.com
New dreambox story waiting 4 ya!


> -----Original Message-----
> From: use-revolution-bounces at lists.runrev.com
> [mailto:use-revolution-bounces at lists.runrev.com]On Behalf Of Scott Rossi
> Sent: Friday, February 13, 2004 18:19
> To: How to use Revolution
> Subject: Re: Short Names/Dos Names/8.3
> 
> 
> >> How do I get the short names for Windows paths from within Rev?
> 
> Is the shortFilePath function usable?
> 
> Regards,
> 
> Scott Rossi
> Creative Director
> Tactile Media, Development & Design
> -----
> E: scott at tactilemedia.com
> W: http://www.tactilemedia.com
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution

From b.xavier at internet.lu  Fri Feb 13 13:50:56 2004
From: b.xavier at internet.lu (MisterX)
Date: Fri, 13 Feb 2004 19:50:56 +0100
Subject: My pop up menu deselects my text...
In-Reply-To: <01d301c3f25e$d4846580$84a2a2d1@unknown>
Message-ID: <ENEALNOCJBOOOHHCCEKNKEBLFNAA.b.xavier@internet.lu>

try this...

local lastsel

on mouseenter
  put the selectedchunk into lastsel
  pass mouseenter
end mouseenter

on menupick x
  bla bla bla
  do "select" && lastsel
end menupick

you owe me a beer now! ;)


> -----Original Message-----
> From: use-revolution-bounces at lists.runrev.com
> [mailto:use-revolution-bounces at lists.runrev.com]On Behalf Of m
> Sent: Friday, February 13, 2004 19:26
> To: use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> Subject: My pop up menu deselects my text...
>
>
> I am trying to create a context pop up menu that allows you to simply
> copy text.
>
> Problem:  the ?popup? command works just fine, but as soon as my menu
> pops up, my selected text is deselected.
>
> I have a goofy work around right now where I just throw the selected
> text into a container and then change it?s color (so you know what was
> highlighted) before popping up the context menu.
>
> But I need to be able to pop up the menu while keeping my text selected
> (like all word processors do).
>
> What am I missing?
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution


From gizmotron at earthlink.net  Fri Feb 13 13:47:06 2004
From: gizmotron at earthlink.net (Mark Brownell)
Date: Fri, 13 Feb 2004 10:47:06 -0800
Subject: Setting Document Associations in Windows
Message-ID: <05BBBD7A-5E55-11D8-AB0A-000A95859272@earthlink.net>

Hi,

 From this old thread in the archives:
 > How do I go about setting up basic file association via
 > the registry and how do I get the Rev standalone to recognize that it 
was
 > launched with incoming parameters and access & use those parameters?

this works:
get setRegistry("HKEY_CLASSES_ROOT\.tst\","TestApp")

this works:
get setRegistry("HKEY_CLASSES_ROOT\TestApp\","TestApp document")

this works:
get setRegistry("HKEY_CLASSES_ROOT\TestApp\DefaultIcon\","C:\Program 
Files\TestApp\TestApp.exe,1")

[ Part of the last one above.
This worked but I'm not sure what this is about:

"3) Create a subkey of HKCR\TestApp to hold the default icon for the 
application. The value used is the path to the application followed by 
a comma, followed by the index of the icon resource inside the 
application. MetaCard/Rev document icons are in the first position and 
I'll assume for this example that I have used an icon editor to change 
the icon in the first position of the TestApp executable:" ]

What is the first position? Anyway my icon appears now in the top of 
the window.

Now the big question!

This does not work the way I want it to:

"4) Create a subkey three layers deep in HKCR\TestApp to hold the 
command to open the application when the document with the ".tst" 
extension is launched. The path to the document is defined in the 
registry as %1. Any other info you want to pass to the application you 
can add to this line. The nice thing about MC/Rev is that you can 
create all these keys at once in a single command:

get 
setRegistry("HKEY_CLASSES_ROOT\TestApp\shell\open\command\","C:\Program 
Files\TestApp\TestApp.exe %1") "

My guess is that I'm missing an on openStack handler that then opens 
the correct document if I call this "put $1 into theDocToOpen" kind of 
thing and then pass it to a file open handler.

So I probably answered my own question on this. I can't get my 
documents saved to display  the MTML icon when they are created using 
the standalone app. They do open my standalone but as I said they don't 
load in yet. Is there a get setRegistry() that I can use to associate 
icons with my created .mtml documents?

I have selected this icon for the application and the documents created 
in the DB during creation of the standalone app.

I'm testing on Win XP pro, Rev 2.1.2 with a proper 766 byte icon.

Thanks for any help,

Mark




From scott at tactilemedia.com  Fri Feb 13 14:10:45 2004
From: scott at tactilemedia.com (Scott Rossi)
Date: Fri, 13 Feb 2004 11:10:45 -0800
Subject: Drawers size
In-Reply-To: <BA6301B6-5E4A-11D8-85F5-000A95DA60FA@adelphia.net>
Message-ID: <BC526135.A01F%scott@tactilemedia.com>

On 2/13/04 9:33 AM, "Thomas McGrath III" <3mcgrath at adelphia.net> wrote:

> Because you made the main stack a palette (I didn't think of that) it
> disappears when another app is open (this is a feature) and is visible
> when this standalone is in front.

I believe the hidePallets property is currently broken which would normally
allow you keep palette windows visible at all times.

Regards,

Scott Rossi
Creative Director
Tactile Media, Development & Design
-----
E: scott at tactilemedia.com
W: http://www.tactilemedia.com


From sonesond1 at southernct.edu  Fri Feb 13 14:13:49 2004
From: sonesond1 at southernct.edu (Dan Soneson)
Date: Fri, 13 Feb 2004 14:13:49 -0500
Subject: No subject
Message-ID: <C1164E2C-5E58-11D8-9500-00039303CE26@southernct.edu>

>> However, try putting the output of the function into the field:
>> 	put cube(3) into fld 1 -- the output goes into the message box, not
>> the field.
>
> Tried here and it works with a field...!?
>
>> If you try this with a standard Transcript function:
>> 	put sqrt(4) into fld 1 -- works as expected, with output to the 
>> field.
>> Has this always (not) worked like this? Have I just missed it all
>> these years?
>> I could swear I've done this successfully before.
>
> Works here and should work for you...!?
>
>> Devin Asay
>> Humanities Technology and Research Support Center
>> Brigham Young University
>
> Sorry, totally clueless...
>
>
> Regards
>
> Klaus Major
> klaus at major-k.de
> www.major-k.de

I can confirm Devin's experience. When calling the function directly 
from the message box nothing in the field changes, the the result goes 
into the message result box, as if it were a simple put command. 
However, calling the function from a button script works just fine. So 
does putting the result into a variable and putting that variable into 
the field (in the multi-line version of the message box).

I'm using Rev 2.1.2 on Mac OS X 10.2.6. Maybe it's different in 
Panther? Windows?

Looks like a bug in any case.
Dan


Daniel B. Soneson
Director, Language Lab
Southern CT State University


From klaus at major-k.de  Fri Feb 13 14:13:50 2004
From: klaus at major-k.de (Klaus Major)
Date: Fri, 13 Feb 2004 20:13:50 +0100
Subject: Function output-a bug or a feature?
In-Reply-To: <7D88B085-5E51-11D8-A712-000393C4760A@mindlube.com>
References: <20040213155348.300C893037C@mail.runrev.com>
	<6274E9F1-5E3E-11D8-B29D-000A95A6A138@byu.edu>
	<4AF70A8D-5E40-11D8-9A49-000A27B49A96@major-k.de>
	<7D88B085-5E51-11D8-A712-000393C4760A@mindlube.com>
Message-ID: <C1D054A7-5E58-11D8-9A49-000A27B49A96@major-k.de>

Hi Alex,

>
> On Feb 13, 2004, at 9:18 AM, Klaus Major wrote:
>
>> Works here and should work for you...!?
>> Sorry, totally clueless...
>
> Klause, try it from the message box; it does not work. Here is my 
> response from last time:
>
>
> On Feb 11, 2004, at 8:28 AM, Devin Asay wrote:
>
>> However, try putting the output of the function into the field:
>> 	put cube(3) into fld 1 -- the output goes into the message box, not 
>> the field.
>
> It seems like a message box bug to me!

Yeah, tried it with a button...

Doesn't work with msg...

> --
> Alex Rice | Mindlube Software | http://mindlube.com

Regards

Klaus Major
klaus at major-k.de
www.major-k.de


From slynch at richmond.sd38.bc.ca  Fri Feb 13 14:16:51 2004
From: slynch at richmond.sd38.bc.ca (Stewart Lynch)
Date: Fri, 13 Feb 2004 11:16:51 -0800
Subject: No subject
Message-ID: <fc.00231a3c015e6e2d3b9aca004a5d51a0.15e6e2e@richmond.sd38.bc.ca>

Your email message contained no subject.  As this is a common SPAM tactic,
I have set up a rule to reject all incoming mail with no subject.  Please
resend your message with a subject line.


From pixelbird at interisland.net  Fri Feb 13 14:17:39 2004
From: pixelbird at interisland.net (Ken Norris)
Date: Fri, 13 Feb 2004 11:17:39 -0800
Subject: Exocet dreams
In-Reply-To: <20040213001447.1A2649302EB@mail.runrev.com>
Message-ID: <BC5262D2.4F66%pixelbird@interisland.net>



> Date: Thu, 12 Feb 2004 19:05:54 -0500
> From: Thomas McGrath III <3mcgrath at adelphia.net>
> Subject: Re: Exocet dreams; not the missile but...
> 
> Ken, You know I applaud your efforts already with working with the
> disabled on 'your little island'. I too find it to be the most
> rewarding thin that I do, aside from maybe my art work which I use to
> open everyones eyes to the beauty and magnificance around us.
-----------
Good for you!
----------- 
> This is a very interesting idea. I am curious, what types of objects
> might these be? Just a few more examples, please?
> Do you have a list started with 'personalized software tool' ideas?
> Do you have a list started with 'their needs' ideas?
-----------
Well, when I refer to objects in the immediate context, I mean a system of
screen objects and modules which a person can use to design for themselves a
personalized extensible control system, and an imbedded AI bot to help them
make decisions and test, monitor progress, and offer suggestions.

Let's pretend your best, and perhaps only, motor control is in your right
thigh. You can bang your knee into a switch, but that's all you can do with
assurance.

Let's take something common to start with: a hovering object with an
automatic selection timer. I'll call it a HoverSelector.

This is an object that moves over other screen objects, pacing itself from a
preset timer as it goes from object to object. This is often refered to as a
scanner system.

The HoverSelector also has another timer preset to where it hovers over each
screen object long enough to let the user make a decision, and then moves
on.

If the user hits the switch while the HoverSelector is over an object, the
associated code is executed. The HoverSelector waits another time to allow
for the possibility of choosing the same object again unless the selected
object takes them to another screen full of objects (often the case).

Here's the thing:

You or I can create a project that does these kinds of things, right? But
what about the user? What if the HoverSelector and/or objects aren't large
enough. What if the user also has poor visibility (often the case) and needs
special coloring, sizing, or animation, plus audio feedback augmentation?
What kind should it be? Can they adjust timing for themselves?

What if the user had a complete set of tools and a bot that helps tests
their skills and helps them select tools with which they can effectively
design a system that molds itself to their individual needs, and
continuously follows the user's progress, helping them to make subtle
adjusments along the way.

What I'm thinking about is placing a whole set of adjustable tool elements
at the disposal of the user, i.e. a set of modular building blocks of user
selectable, user-defineable, and user-adjustable elements, like timers and
speed controls, variable button animation styles, color selection, text
styles and sizes, screen layouts, audio feedback sounds and voices, choices
of speech replacement voices, etc.

The list can be fairly long.

And then write a system bot, an AI tool that helps the user to discover and
build and set up their system, using those tools.

Also, what about controllers? In my Mac, I have a great generic USB driver
called USB Overdrive (I just call it USBO). I can tell a stick which buttons
do what, a few different controller modes, and speed. HOWEVER, the USBO
folks didn't supply an AS dictionary for it (and have never replied to my
queries).

So AFAIK, there is currently no way to set up USB controllers from within
Rev or SuperCard. I've been begging for this feature for a year.

Now, with such a system, the user can also move on to build screen objects
to control external devices, controls for home systems, lights,
entertainment, communications, environmental controls, various kinds of
robotic systems, etc.

All from a single switch. Or two switches, or a tough controller like this:
<http://www.x-arcade.com/lifetime.shtml>

The difficulties for me will be four-fold:

1) Designing a truly extensible, expandable modular system which, at the
same time, offers connectivity between appropriate modules. The fewer
limits, the better.

2) Designing and maintaining the AI bot. It may involve some fairly
convoluted multi-dimensional arrays, where I tend to get lost.

3) Gearing it to be able to _adapt_ to what is now high-end equipment
(64-bit processors, etc,) and parallel processing algorithms when the price
of that stuff starts coming down.

4) Handling driver control for lots of different controllers.

Ken N.


From jacque at hyperactivesw.com  Fri Feb 13 14:22:18 2004
From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay)
Date: Fri, 13 Feb 2004 13:22:18 -0600
Subject: Trying to buy Dan's book
In-Reply-To: <622A2B28-5E35-11D8-BFA4-000A959D005E@earthlink.net>
References: <BC5181CF.4F39%pixelbird@interisland.net>
	<7D5A52BA-5DD5-11D8-8039-0003936A2C42@mac.com>
	<622A2B28-5E35-11D8-BFA4-000A959D005E@earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <402D23EA.7000306@hyperactivesw.com>

On 2/13/04 9:00 AM, Marian Petrides wrote:

> I tried to avoid posting something this trivial to this list but emails 
> to Dan and RunRev have gone unanswered (perhaps unreceived since both 
> Dan and RunRev are usually good about responding).

This may be a good time to jump in here. Some of you know that Heather 
was taken ill during MacWorld in January. It was some time before we 
realized that someone would have to step in and take over some of her 
responsibilities. I have taken that position for a while. Heather is 
recovering and is gradually easing back into her work, but I am still 
doing the bulk of it. Graham Samuel has kindly offered to help me with 
some of the support mail.

Much of the old support mail was stored in Heather's private email box. 
A good deal of time went by before we were able to retrieve it. A day or 
so ago, over 100 old emails were moved to the new support database. We 
are trying to catch up with those, some of which are backdated to 
January. This is a huge backlog for us to process. Undoubtedly some old 
mail was lost.

Marian's request was answered yesterday, and a followup will happen 
soon. If anyone else is waiting for a reply from customer support, give 
us another few days to catch up and if you haven't heard back, then your 
original message was most likely lost. Please resend, but this time send 
to <support at runrev.com>.

Apologies, but things happen. We're doing our best.

-- 
Jacqueline Landman Gay         |     jacque at hyperactivesw.com
HyperActive Software           |     http://www.hyperactivesw.com

From alex at mindlube.com  Fri Feb 13 14:23:04 2004
From: alex at mindlube.com (Alex Rice)
Date: Fri, 13 Feb 2004 12:23:04 -0700
Subject: http password 
In-Reply-To: <401FFFAE.8070207@aol.com>
References: <401FFFAE.8070207@aol.com>
Message-ID: <0C0C7461-5E5A-11D8-83E1-000393C4760A@mindlube.com>


On Feb 3, 2004, at 1:08 PM, Zac Elston wrote:

> i have a url that is
> "http://username:password at hostname/path/file.pl?var1=foo

Ugh. This format of URL may no longer be usable. I just read that good 
'old Microsoft is breaking RFCs for URLs which could make make your job 
hell if you are a web developer:

<http://www.infoworld.com/article/04/01/29/HNiechange_1.html>

"""...a recently-discovered flaw in the way that IE parses URLs allows 
scam artists to completely replace Web URLs that use the 
username:password@ formatting with a URL of their choosing, regardless 
of which Web page is actually displayed in IE. Microsoft was criticized 
in recent weeks for not moving to patch that vulnerability when it 
released its other January security updates.

Microsoft, like many other browser makers, based its support of the 
username:password@ syntax on Internet standards documents, such as 
Internet Engineering Task Force (IETF) documents RFC (Request For 
Comments)1738, which specifies how URLs on the Internet should be 
formatted, and RFC 2616 that specifies how HTTP URLs should be 
formatted, Fitzgerald said.

  The change announced on Tuesday will violate some of those 
specifications, but benefit consumers, according to Russ Cooper, 
TruSecure Corp. Surgeon General and moderator of the NTBugtraq security 
discussion group.

  "No doubt some who will cry foul...or sob because needed functionality 
is now gone or Web sites have to be recoded," Cooper wrote in a message 
posted to NTBugtraq Wednesday. "To them I say a big 'Too bad!'. The 
average user, the victim of phishing scams, isn't going to miss the 
functionality but will happily miss the scams."

  That said, Microsoft should try to find a way to safely handle URLs 
with passwords in them, Cooper said."""

--
Alex Rice | Mindlube Software | http://mindlube.com


From sonesond1 at southernct.edu  Fri Feb 13 14:20:25 2004
From: sonesond1 at southernct.edu (Dan Soneson)
Date: Fri, 13 Feb 2004 14:20:25 -0500
Subject: Function output-a bug or a feature?
Message-ID: <ACBFC744-5E59-11D8-9500-00039303CE26@southernct.edu>

Sorry. I hit the send key too soon. I'll try to remember to include the 
subject line...


I can confirm Devin's experience. When calling the function directly
from the message box nothing in the field changes, the the result goes
into the message result box, as if it were a simple put command.
However, calling the function from a button script works just fine. So
does putting the result into a variable and putting that variable into
the field (in the multi-line version of the message box).

I'm using Rev 2.1.2 on Mac OS X 10.2.6. Maybe it's different in
Panther? Windows?

Looks like a bug in any case.
Dan


Daniel B. Soneson
Director, Language Lab
Southern CT State University
Daniel B. Soneson
Director, Language Lab
Southern CT State University

From kray at sonsothunder.com  Fri Feb 13 14:24:49 2004
From: kray at sonsothunder.com (Ken Ray)
Date: Fri, 13 Feb 2004 13:24:49 -0600
Subject: My pop up menu deselects my text...
In-Reply-To: <01d301c3f25e$d4846580$84a2a2d1@unknown>
Message-ID: <019801c3f267$108ee7a0$6601a8c0@LightningFlash>

Well, I don't know exactly your code, but I whipped up a quick example
that works... maybe you can pull it apart and apply it to your
situation.

1) I created an option button with three items in it (Cut, Copy, Paste)
2) I created a field to hold the text and typed some text in it
3) I put this script in the field:

on mouseDown
  if the controlKey is down then
    popup btn "Popper" at the mouseLoc
  end if
end mouseDown

When I selected some text and control-clicked, the popup menu appeared;
I selected an item and released and the menu disappeared and the text
was still selected.

HTH,

Ken Ray
Sons of Thunder Software
Email: kray at sonsothunder.com
Web Site: http://www.sonsothunder.com/ 

> -----Original Message-----
> From: use-revolution-bounces at lists.runrev.com 
> [mailto:use-revolution-bounces at lists.runrev.com] On Behalf Of m
> Sent: Friday, February 13, 2004 12:26 PM
> To: use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> Subject: My pop up menu deselects my text...
> 
> 
> I am trying to create a context pop up menu that allows you 
> to simply copy text.  
>  
> Problem:  the "popup" command works just fine, but as soon as 
> my menu pops up, my selected text is deselected.
>  
> I have a goofy work around right now where I just throw the 
> selected text into a container and then change it's color (so 
> you know what was
> highlighted) before popping up the context menu.
>  
> But I need to be able to pop up the menu while keeping my 
> text selected (like all word processors do).
>  
> What am I missing?
>  
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com 
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-> revolution
> 



From pixelbird at interisland.net  Fri Feb 13 14:34:36 2004
From: pixelbird at interisland.net (Ken Norris)
Date: Fri, 13 Feb 2004 11:34:36 -0800
Subject: Exocet dreams; not the missile but...
In-Reply-To: <20040213141224.02FBE930314@mail.runrev.com>
Message-ID: <BC5266CC.4F67%pixelbird@interisland.net>

Hi Thomas,

> Date: Fri, 13 Feb 2004 09:11:49 -0500
> From: Thomas McGrath III <3mcgrath at adelphia.net>
> Subject: Re: use-revolution Digest, Vol 5, Issue 123

> The MacBrick can monitor the environment via light, touch, temperature,
> sound, pressure, movement etc. and feed that to Rev, then Rev can
> control an X10 device like a light switch
----------
I need to explore MacBrick. How sensitive is it? How accurate? What kind of
output?
----------
> Last year I mounted a wireless X10 camera to a remote controlled truck.
> Then from the comfort of my room watching the road in front of the
> truck through the TV I can race the truck around the yard from a first
> person view. With out even having a line of sight on the truck.
----------
They've experimented with model helicopter cameras for traffic monitoring in
Seattle (besides the ones mounted on overpasses, etc.). Big Brother is
watching.

I'm something of an RC enthusiast myself. I learned to fly RC aircraft 3
years ago. There is a retired disabled man in Florida (I think) who flys RC
model aircraft from his wheelchair using computer telemetry from a camera in
the plane which he views on the screen, just like your truck. He makes good
landings almost every time.

This stuff always fascinates me.
----------
> Of course, people ask me why I do this and the only response I have is
> "Because it can be done and isn't it cool !!!!"
----------
Yep!!

Ken N.


From 3mcgrath at adelphia.net  Fri Feb 13 14:36:22 2004
From: 3mcgrath at adelphia.net (Thomas McGrath III)
Date: Fri, 13 Feb 2004 14:36:22 -0500
Subject: Drawers size
In-Reply-To: <BC526135.A01F%scott@tactilemedia.com>
References: <BC526135.A01F%scott@tactilemedia.com>
Message-ID: <E782136B-5E5B-11D8-85F5-000A95DA60FA@adelphia.net>

Yes but, using systemwindow it is also visible at all times. I put in 
the checkbox to toggle between the two.

Cool


Tom
On Feb 13, 2004, at 2:10 PM, Scott Rossi wrote:

> On 2/13/04 9:33 AM, "Thomas McGrath III" <3mcgrath at adelphia.net> wrote:
>
>> Because you made the main stack a palette (I didn't think of that) it
>> disappears when another app is open (this is a feature) and is visible
>> when this standalone is in front.
>
> I believe the hidePallets property is currently broken which would 
> normally
> allow you keep palette windows visible at all times.
>
> Regards,
>
> Scott Rossi
> Creative Director
> Tactile Media, Development & Design
> -----
> E: scott at tactilemedia.com
> W: http://www.tactilemedia.com
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>
>

Thomas J. McGrath III
SCS
1000 Killarney Dr.
Pittsburgh, PA 15234
412-885-8541


From kray at sonsothunder.com  Fri Feb 13 14:35:57 2004
From: kray at sonsothunder.com (Ken Ray)
Date: Fri, 13 Feb 2004 13:35:57 -0600
Subject: Setting Document Associations in Windows
In-Reply-To: <05BBBD7A-5E55-11D8-AB0A-000A95859272@earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <019a01c3f268$9d7cfac0$6601a8c0@LightningFlash>

> [ Part of the last one above.
> This worked but I'm not sure what this is about:
> 
> "3) Create a subkey of HKCR\TestApp to hold the default icon for the 
> application. The value used is the path to the application 
> followed by 
> a comma, followed by the index of the icon resource inside the 
> application. MetaCard/Rev document icons are in the first 
> position and 
> I'll assume for this example that I have used an icon editor 
> to change 
> the icon in the first position of the TestApp executable:" ]
> 
> What is the first position? Anyway my icon appears now in the top of 
> the window.

Icons are stored as resources inside of the application itself. Most
applications like Word, etc. have more than one icon stored there, and
they are retrieved from the Registry in the order that they exist in the
application. So the first icon is in the first position, the second icon
in the second position, etc.

> "4) Create a subkey three layers deep in HKCR\TestApp to hold the 
> command to open the application when the document with the ".tst" 
> extension is launched. The path to the document is defined in the 
> registry as %1. Any other info you want to pass to the 
> application you 
> can add to this line. The nice thing about MC/Rev is that you can 
> create all these keys at once in a single command:
> 
> get 
> setRegistry("HKEY_CLASSES_ROOT\TestApp\shell\open\command\","C
> :\Program 
> Files\TestApp\TestApp.exe %1") "
> 
> My guess is that I'm missing an on openStack handler that then opens 
> the correct document if I call this "put $1 into 
> theDocToOpen" kind of 
> thing and then pass it to a file open handler.

Well, if you don't have that, you won't be able to open the file the
user double-clicked from the desktop. It shouldn't affect how the icon
is displayed, however.
 
> So I probably answered my own question on this. I can't get my 
> documents saved to display  the MTML icon when they are created using 
> the standalone app. 

Did you provide a document icon in the Distribution Builder? If not,
you'll need to use an icon editor on your standalone to change the
default document icon to your document icon.

Ken Ray
Sons of Thunder Software
Email: kray at sonsothunder.com
Web Site: http://www.sonsothunder.com/ 




From ian at azurevision.co.uk  Fri Feb 13 14:43:53 2004
From: ian at azurevision.co.uk (Ian Wood)
Date: Fri, 13 Feb 2004 19:43:53 +0000
Subject: Exocet dreams; not the missile but...
In-Reply-To: <BC5266CC.4F67%pixelbird@interisland.net>
References: <BC5266CC.4F67%pixelbird@interisland.net>
Message-ID: <F441DD84-5E5C-11D8-9B9E-0003935A2896@azurevision.co.uk>

<snip>

>> Last year I mounted a wireless X10 camera to a remote controlled 
>> truck.
>> Then from the comfort of my room watching the road in front of the
>> truck through the TV I can race the truck around the yard from a first
>> person view. With out even having a line of sight on the truck.
> ----------
> They've experimented with model helicopter cameras for traffic 
> monitoring in
> Seattle (besides the ones mounted on overpasses, etc.). Big Brother is
> watching.
>
> I'm something of an RC enthusiast myself. I learned to fly RC aircraft 
> 3
> years ago. There is a retired disabled man in Florida (I think) who 
> flys RC
> model aircraft from his wheelchair using computer telemetry from a 
> camera in
> the plane which he views on the screen, just like your truck. He makes 
> good
> landings almost every time.
>
> This stuff always fascinates me.

:-)

www.azurevision.co.uk/panos/flybot/

A four metre RC blimp with a hi-res wireless video camera.  My 
pictures, somebody else's creation.

"Designed specifically to allow the scientists at Eden to study the 
high tree canopy, Flybot is used to relay images and data which will 
allow the scientists to monitor the health of the plants, and if need 
be, to administer biological controls to keep unwanted funguses and 
insects at bay.

Over the next two years Flybot will also develop into a 'machine 
entity' at Eden, with the goal to allow access to fly Flybot over the 
web."

> ----------
>> Of course, people ask me why I do this and the only response I have is
>> "Because it can be done and isn't it cool !!!!"
> ----------
> Yep!!
>
> Ken N.


From martin at harbourtown.co.uk  Fri Feb 13 14:48:34 2004
From: martin at harbourtown.co.uk (Martin Baxter)
Date: Fri, 13 Feb 2004 19:48:34 +0000
Subject: My pop up menu deselects my text...
In-Reply-To: <20040213191435.C8AF193038E@mail.runrev.com>
Message-ID: <l03130300bc52e892c16f@[62.25.133.253]>

<"m" wrote:
>
>I am trying to create a context pop up menu that allows you to simply
>copy text.
>
>Problem:  the ?popup? command works just fine, but as soon as my menu
>pops up, my selected text is deselected.
>
>I have a goofy work around right now where I just throw the selected
>text into a container and then change it?s color (so you know what was
>highlighted) before popping up the context menu.
>
>But I need to be able to pop up the menu while keeping my text selected
>(like all word processors do).
>
>What am I missing?

If you are using the popup command on Windows, (or presumably,  any other
OS where buttons can get focus), you may need to set the traversalon of the
source popup menu button to false. It will grab the focus otherwise. This
property is true by default and I don't think it is exposed in the property
inspector for a popup menu button, so you may have to use the message box
like :

set the traversalon of btn "popupbtn" to false.

Hope this helps.

Martin



From pixelbird at interisland.net  Fri Feb 13 14:52:27 2004
From: pixelbird at interisland.net (Ken Norris)
Date: Fri, 13 Feb 2004 11:52:27 -0800
Subject: Mindstorms and Revolution.
In-Reply-To: <20040213141224.02FBE930314@mail.runrev.com>
Message-ID: <BC526AFB.4F68%pixelbird@interisland.net>

Hi Thomas,

> Date: Fri, 13 Feb 2004 09:11:49 -0500
> From: Thomas McGrath III <3mcgrath at adelphia.net>
> Subject: Re: use-revolution Digest, Vol 5, Issue 123
 
> Actually you can. I have been playing with environmental controls via
> X10 and MacBrick and Rev.
-----------
MacBrick is DOA. The guy closed shop. No more MacBrick product available. He
was hand building each unit one at a time and couldn't afford to stay in
business.

Too bad...it looks very interesting.

The company is for sale if anyone is interested:

(If I had the $$ I might consider it).

<http://www.macbrick.com/>

BTW, there seems to be too many threads on this same subject. I don't mean
to harp on it because I make the same error myself once in awhile, but
_please_ rename your subjectline to the right one, i.e., _not_ stuff like
Re: use-revolution Digest, Vol 5, Issue 123.

Just a friendly reminder.

Thanks...fascinating subject. Rev control of cameras, X-10 devices, and RC.

Ken N.


From mcdomi at free.fr  Fri Feb 13 14:52:38 2004
From: mcdomi at free.fr (Dom)
Date: Fri, 13 Feb 2004 20:52:38 +0100
Subject: 10 bugs in 2 minutes time!
In-Reply-To: <BC507847.3D386%ambassador@fourthworld.com>
Message-ID: <1g9430l.11exme41ypee8sM%mcdomi@free.fr>

Richard Gaskin <ambassador at fourthworld.com> wrote:

> The resizeStack message is a powerful thing, well worth working with
> directly.  It gives you total control over layout with no ambiguity and less
> overhead.

Agreed.
Originating from MC, I took the habit to script resizing controls "a la
mano";-)

-- 
Vous parlez fran?ais ? faites un tour sur le groupe francophone !
revolutionfr-subscribe at yahoogroupes.fr
Jetez un oeil sur RevoBlog <http://revoblog.free.fr> !

From gizmotron at earthlink.net  Fri Feb 13 14:55:02 2004
From: gizmotron at earthlink.net (Mark Brownell)
Date: Fri, 13 Feb 2004 11:55:02 -0800
Subject: Setting Document Associations in Windows
In-Reply-To: <019a01c3f268$9d7cfac0$6601a8c0@LightningFlash>
Message-ID: <82FE2FD0-5E5E-11D8-AB0A-000A95859272@earthlink.net>


On Friday, February 13, 2004, at 11:35  AM, Ken Ray wrote:

> Did you provide a document icon in the Distribution Builder? If not,
> you'll need to use an icon editor on your standalone to change the
> default document icon to your document icon.
>
> Ken Ray

Yes I did and the applications shows the icon in standalone mode. I 
believe I have run an un-installer that may have changed or deleted 
some of the settings. I'm looking into regedit to view the 
HKEY_CLASSES_ROOT entries and make changes to the installer if needed.

It'll be good to learn more about this stuff anyway.

Mark


From dsc at swcp.com  Fri Feb 13 14:56:12 2004
From: dsc at swcp.com (Dar Scott)
Date: Fri, 13 Feb 2004 12:56:12 -0700
Subject: http password 
In-Reply-To: <0C0C7461-5E5A-11D8-83E1-000393C4760A@mindlube.com>
Message-ID: <ACE956E0-5E5E-11D8-BB7C-000A9567A3E6@swcp.com>


On Friday, February 13, 2004, at 12:23 PM, Alex Rice wrote:

> ...a recently-discovered flaw in the way that IE parses URLs allows 
> scam artists to completely replace Web URLs that use the 
> username:password@ formatting with a URL of their choosing, regardless 
> of which Web page is actually displayed in IE.

There is a related weakness in SSL and this might aggravate it.  SSL 
will help assure that the other guys are who they say they are but does 
nothing to connect who they say they are to who you think they are.  
The closest thing is the user looking at the URL.

Fortunately, specialized browsers can do some checking that should help 
a lot.  I hope that the upcoming SSL capability includes the ability to 
see some or most fields from the presented certificate.  This will 
allow Revolution apps to fill an important niche.

Dar Scott


From 3mcgrath at adelphia.net  Fri Feb 13 14:59:00 2004
From: 3mcgrath at adelphia.net (Thomas McGrath III)
Date: Fri, 13 Feb 2004 14:59:00 -0500
Subject: Exocet dreams
In-Reply-To: <BC5262D2.4F66%pixelbird@interisland.net>
References: <BC5262D2.4F66%pixelbird@interisland.net>
Message-ID: <10E49B78-5E5F-11D8-85F5-000A95DA60FA@adelphia.net>

Ken,
Thanks for the run down. Quite a lot to sink my teeth into. But a 
wonderful idea.

Just a couple of comments.

1.) A library holder (add on stacks) - the library would 'know' how to 
access them when available???

2.) Maybe this is more than one bot? A series of relational bots 
designed to handle different types of info/demands.

4.) Although very difficult and mostly out of your control there are 
some drivers built in for simple control (serial keys, mouse keys) so 
if a switch exists it may have it's own driver and all you may need is 
two actions on/off to control most every thing.

I will ponder what you have said and get back to you if I find anything 
useful.

Talk more,

Tom

On Feb 13, 2004, at 2:17 PM, Ken Norris wrote:

> The difficulties for me will be four-fold:
>
> 1) Designing a truly extensible, expandable modular system which, at 
> the
> same time, offers connectivity between appropriate modules. The fewer
> limits, the better.
>
> 2) Designing and maintaining the AI bot. It may involve some fairly
> convoluted multi-dimensional arrays, where I tend to get lost.
>
> 3) Gearing it to be able to _adapt_ to what is now high-end equipment
> (64-bit processors, etc,) and parallel processing algorithms when the 
> price
> of that stuff starts coming down.
>
> 4) Handling driver control for lots of different controllers.
>

Thomas J. McGrath III
SCS
1000 Killarney Dr.
Pittsburgh, PA 15234
412-885-8541


From jperryl at ecs.fullerton.edu  Fri Feb 13 15:07:51 2004
From: jperryl at ecs.fullerton.edu (Judy Perry)
Date: Fri, 13 Feb 2004 12:07:51 -0800 (PST)
Subject: OT: Village signing [was: RR as a browser plugin?]
In-Reply-To: <BC51AED7.4F44%pixelbird@interisland.net>
Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.4.33.0402131206540.17315-100000@titan.ecs.fullerton.edu>

Hi Ken,

Video...

Or maybe I don't understand what you mean??

Judy

> But what will you do about all the hand movements?


From 3mcgrath at adelphia.net  Fri Feb 13 15:18:05 2004
From: 3mcgrath at adelphia.net (Thomas McGrath III)
Date: Fri, 13 Feb 2004 15:18:05 -0500
Subject: Exocet dreams; not the missile but...
In-Reply-To: <F441DD84-5E5C-11D8-9B9E-0003935A2896@azurevision.co.uk>
References: <BC5266CC.4F67%pixelbird@interisland.net>
	<F441DD84-5E5C-11D8-9B9E-0003935A2896@azurevision.co.uk>
Message-ID: <BB389FDB-5E61-11D8-85F5-000A95DA60FA@adelphia.net>

Ian,

i've been to that site before. What a great project. I didn't know you 
were involved. That's great.

Tom

On Feb 13, 2004, at 2:43 PM, Ian Wood wrote:

> <snip>
>
> www.azurevision.co.uk/panos/flybot/
>
> A four metre RC blimp with a hi-res wireless video camera.  My 
> pictures, somebody else's creation.
>
> "Designed specifically to allow the scientists at Eden to study the 
> high tree canopy, Flybot is used to relay images and data which will 
> allow the scientists to monitor the health of the plants, and if need 
> be, to administer biological controls to keep unwanted funguses and 
> insects at bay.
>
> Over the next two years Flybot will also develop into a 'machine 
> entity' at Eden, with the goal to allow access to fly Flybot over the 
> web."
>
>> ----------
>>> Of course, people ask me why I do this and the only response I have 
>>> is
>>> "Because it can be done and isn't it cool !!!!"
>> ----------
>> Yep!!
>>
>> Ken N.
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>
>

Thomas J. McGrath III
SCS
1000 Killarney Dr.
Pittsburgh, PA 15234
412-885-8541


From sanke at hrz.uni-kassel.de  Fri Feb 13 15:32:22 2004
From: sanke at hrz.uni-kassel.de (Wilhelm Sanke)
Date: Fri, 13 Feb 2004 21:32:22 +0100
Subject: Ann: DiscreteBrowser 1.1 (Was StealthBrowser) release
Message-ID: <402D3456.4030207@hrz.uni-kassel.de>

On Fri, 13 Feb 2004 "MisterX" <b.xavier at internet.lu> wrote:

> Thanks to all of you, here the release of a new and improved 
> DiscreteBrowser
> for runrev. It's not a great browser but it has the basic functions you
> need. HTML Support is strictly for display, no forms or scripts or any 
> fancy
> stuff. Just a plain browser.
>
> (snip
>
> <http://monsieurx.com/modules.php?name=News&file=article&sid=137>
>
> Those who are registered on MonsieurX.com can go here directly to download
>
> (snip)
> Xavier

Hi Xavier,

Probably I am among those who would be interested to have a look at your 
browser,
 but why should I register to a new list, memorize a new user name, a 
new password,
and get a new sort of cookies?

There are at least 10 free sites of list members which you can access 
without restrictions
 and download whatever you are interested. Also there is the user 
contributions page of the
 RunRev site.

Your caveat about spam protection etc. in your letter you referred to 
last time when someone
asked for the reason to register to your group is not convincing.

Why don't you upload the browser and other stacks to a place where 
everybody can have a look?

Best regards,

"Mister Wilhelm Sanke"



From sanke at hrz.uni-kassel.de  Fri Feb 13 15:56:06 2004
From: sanke at hrz.uni-kassel.de (Wilhelm Sanke)
Date: Fri, 13 Feb 2004 21:56:06 +0100
Subject: Drawers size
Message-ID: <402D39E6.1000200@hrz.uni-kassel.de>

On Thu, 12 Feb 2004 Thomas McGrath III <3mcgrath at adelphia.net> wrote:

> (snip)
> The window I am using is a non standard window, it is a shape. I wanted
> the drawer to come out the bottom of my floating window and that is not
> possible for some reason either. If I had understood that Klaus was
> saying it was not possible I would have given it up sooner.
>
> Also, when the stack goes to WinXP (drawers don't work) the drawer
> becomes a window but the text field in it is see through ie I can see
> the window decorations but the inside is see through. Not good.
>
> It looks like I will need to drop the drawer window idea and make it a
> palette with more control.
>
> Thanks anyway,
>
> Tom

This topic seems to come up about every six weeks, although of course 
addressing
differing aspects.

The "drawer samples stack" I have referred to twice during the last 6 
months on this list offers still another kind of approach (compared to 
Scott Rossi's fine sample stack).

Here is an extract from my original post of August last year:

> Subject: Drawer samples stack
>
> Reacting to a discussion we had on the Metacard list about the new 
> drawer command and some posts on the use-revolution list I have 
> uploaded a sample stack "drawers2.zip" to
>
> "ftp.hrz.uni-kassel.de/pub/uni-kassel/Zentraler.Medienbereich/Sanke/Metacard/MetacardPractice/"
>
> The stack does *not* use the new drawer command, therefore the 
> examples could be implemented on any platform and also with older 
> versions of Metacard or Revolution.
>
> Two approaches are illustrated
>
> - changing the stack size - and even here achieving a real 
> sliding-drawer effect
> - using substacks or other stacks
>
> Modifying the examples - that use substacks - you can create any 
> reasonable number of drawers at any point of the four sides of the 
> base stack that slide out  in any direction, i.e. also diagonally.
>
> If you wish, you could also go to another card of the drawer stack 
> before it is displayed ( There was a request or a question about this 
> on the list).
>
> No "resize"-problems occur as they were reported for the new drawer 
> command on MacOS X



Regards,

Wilhelm Sanke



From mlindley at telusplanet.net  Fri Feb 13 16:00:05 2004
From: mlindley at telusplanet.net (m)
Date: Fri, 13 Feb 2004 14:00:05 -0700
Subject: My pop up menu deselects my text...
Message-ID: <000001c3f274$5cd69240$2bb0b8a1@unknown>

Thanks!  After setting the traversalon of my popup button to false, all
is well.  

From gizmotron at earthlink.net  Fri Feb 13 16:02:29 2004
From: gizmotron at earthlink.net (Mark Brownell)
Date: Fri, 13 Feb 2004 13:02:29 -0800
Subject: Ann: DiscreteBrowser 1.1 (Was StealthBrowser) release
In-Reply-To: <402D3456.4030207@hrz.uni-kassel.de>
Message-ID: <EEFE8E9D-5E67-11D8-AA22-000A95859272@earthlink.net>


On Friday, February 13, 2004, at 12:32  PM, Wilhelm Sanke wrote:

> Hi Xavier,
>
> Probably I am among those who would be interested to have a look at 
> your browser,
> but why should I register to a new list, memorize a new user name, a 
> new password,
> and get a new sort of cookies?

Me too. I want to see it but I won't be registering any time soon. 
Perhaps if you were to pay me to register I would consider that an 
added value to your free contribution. :-)

Mark


From st.king42 at ntlworld.com  Fri Feb 13 17:06:37 2004
From: st.king42 at ntlworld.com (Stephen King)
Date: Fri, 13 Feb 2004 22:06:37 -0000
Subject: Trying to buy Dan's book
References: <20040213194142.7EEB29303C2@mail.runrev.com>
Message-ID: <000701c3f27d$a669a100$5602a8c0@athalon>

I can vouch for what Jacqueline says. I just bought Dans book a few days
ago.
Things are a little slower at the moment, but if you don't hear after a few
days, just give a polite reminder to the RunRev team. They will respond and
follow up.

It does work.

By the way - Dans book is pretty awesome!

Steve

> Message: 3
> Date: Fri, 13 Feb 2004 13:22:18 -0600
> From: "J. Landman Gay" <jacque at hyperactivesw.com>
> Subject: Re: Trying to buy Dan's book
> To: How to use Revolution <use-revolution at lists.runrev.com>
> Message-ID: <402D23EA.7000306 at hyperactivesw.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed
>
> On 2/13/04 9:00 AM, Marian Petrides wrote:
>
> > I tried to avoid posting something this trivial to this list but emails
> > to Dan and RunRev have gone unanswered (perhaps unreceived since both
> > Dan and RunRev are usually good about responding).
>
> This may be a good time to jump in here. Some of you know that Heather
> was taken ill during MacWorld in January. It was some time before we
> realized that someone would have to step in and take over some of her
> responsibilities. I have taken that position for a while. Heather is
> recovering and is gradually easing back into her work, but I am still
> doing the bulk of it. Graham Samuel has kindly offered to help me with
> some of the support mail.
>
> Much of the old support mail was stored in Heather's private email box.
> A good deal of time went by before we were able to retrieve it. A day or
> so ago, over 100 old emails were moved to the new support database. We
> are trying to catch up with those, some of which are backdated to
> January. This is a huge backlog for us to process. Undoubtedly some old
> mail was lost.
>
> Marian's request was answered yesterday, and a followup will happen
> soon. If anyone else is waiting for a reply from customer support, give
> us another few days to catch up and if you haven't heard back, then your
> original message was most likely lost. Please resend, but this time send
> to <support at runrev.com>.
>
> Apologies, but things happen. We're doing our best.
>
> -- 
> Jacqueline Landman Gay         |     jacque at hyperactivesw.com
> HyperActive Software           |     http://www.hyperactivesw.com
>


From kkaufman at snet.net  Fri Feb 13 17:09:48 2004
From: kkaufman at snet.net (Kurt Kaufman)
Date: Fri, 13 Feb 2004 17:09:48 -0500
Subject: MidiBuilder
Message-ID: <5669C9C6-5E71-11D8-A03E-0003937052EC@snet.net>



"...gMeventLen has me intrigued.
i am going to have to write a translation
from the old HyperText method of showing
time, 60q 61e etc. to your approach in order
to play my things.
Is there a rationale behind the way you
represent duration?"

It's hexadecimal (base 16) which is then encoded into the binary form 
that the MIDI player (QT) expects. Put simply, it indicates the amount 
of time before the next MIDI event (note, rest, etc.).
We hear it as a note or rest length.

The "60q, 60e" you refer to above is also translated into the same 
binary data.

The best way to understand how this works is to create a short MIDI 
file of one note (Middle C, quarter note, for instance) with MIDI 
Builder and open it up with a Hex editor (I recommend "HexEdit").
MIDI Builder will produce the simplest MIDI file possible (assuming 4 
music tracks, even though 3 of those in this case will have no music 
data).  Use the chart which is included with the Revolution 
distribution (midi_format.html) and you will be able to follow along.

I could have read the MIDI file specification until my eyes crossed, 
but I really had to "dissect" some actual short MIDI files for their 
construction to become clear to me.

Hope this helps,
Kurt

More info:
http://www.fortunecity.com/tinpan/faithfull/379/smf.html



From pixelbird at interisland.net  Fri Feb 13 17:23:25 2004
From: pixelbird at interisland.net (Ken Norris)
Date: Fri, 13 Feb 2004 14:23:25 -0800
Subject: Exocet dreams
In-Reply-To: <20040213205717.9D0D9930456@mail.runrev.com>
Message-ID: <BC528E5C.4F7E%pixelbird@interisland.net>

Hi Ian,

<http://www.azurevision.co.uk/panos/flybot/>
> 
> A four metre RC blimp with a hi-res wireless video camera.  My
> pictures, somebody else's creation.
-----------
Thanks. I can probably get info for you about the RC blimp they use here in
the Puget Sound for Whale Spotting if you're interested.

The thing about the helicopter

ITMT. if you want to fly one inside your house, try this:

<http://www.edailydeal.com/RC-Toys/RC-Blimps/index.html>

...or if you like wierd helicopters, here's a gyro-stabilized electric one
with an optional onboard camera:

<http://www.rctoys.com/draganflyer4.php?GTSE=goog&GTKW=rc%20helicopters>

...but before I get waaay OT, what I want to know about is how to connect it
to the computer and retrieve data and images with Rev. What kind of
telemetry will radio the data to the ground? USB hookup? Control with
VideoIn?

Ken N.




From alex at mindlube.com  Fri Feb 13 17:49:33 2004
From: alex at mindlube.com (Alex Rice)
Date: Fri, 13 Feb 2004 15:49:33 -0700
Subject: [OT] Improving OS X's x-play file copying
In-Reply-To: <BC510CDC.3D415%ambassador@fourthworld.com>
References: <BC510CDC.3D415%ambassador@fourthworld.com>
Message-ID: <E4607C55-5E76-11D8-86E9-000393C4760A@mindlube.com>


On Feb 12, 2004, at 11:58 AM, Richard Gaskin wrote:
>
> Is there a checkbox somewhere labeled "Please stop being oh so very 
> clever
> and instead only copy the files I'm telling you to copy without also
> creating a bunch of stuff I neither asked for nor need", or the 
> equivalent?

Personally I would be miffed if Mac OS X silently started discarding 
all the resource forks of my files (possible data loss). So consider 
the "._" files as a good thing.

One would hope there is a way to turn it off. Try asking on Omnigroups' 
macosx-admin mailing list. Those folks would surely know.

--
Alex Rice | Mindlube Software | http://mindlube.com


From doug at webcrossing.com  Fri Feb 13 17:56:04 2004
From: doug at webcrossing.com (Doug Lerner)
Date: Sat, 14 Feb 2004 07:56:04 +0900
Subject: Dragging an image to a card?
Message-ID: <BC538514.269F6%doug@webcrossing.com>

I can browse for an image file and upload it and place the image in a card
with the answer file dialog.

Is there some way of doing this by dragging an image file to the card
instead? That would be a nice option, and many applications allow you to do
that...

doug


From pixelbird at interisland.net  Fri Feb 13 18:09:53 2004
From: pixelbird at interisland.net (Ken Norris)
Date: Fri, 13 Feb 2004 15:09:53 -0800
Subject: Exocet dreams
In-Reply-To: <20040213205717.9D0D9930456@mail.runrev.com>
Message-ID: <BC529940.4F80%pixelbird@interisland.net>

Hi Thomas,

> Date: Fri, 13 Feb 2004 14:59:00 -0500
> From: Thomas McGrath III <3mcgrath at adelphia.net>
> Subject: Re: Exocet dreams

> 4.) Although very difficult and mostly out of your control there are
> some drivers built in for simple control (serial keys, mouse keys)
-----------
Built into what? I don't see much USB control (game controller sockets)
-----------
> so if a switch exists it may have it's own driver and all you may need is
> two actions on/off to control most every thing.
-----------
Well, the single switch was just one example, sorry I made it look too
exclusive.

Single switches can be handled relatively easy in several ways, including
keyboard overlays. My current study is a SuperCard project which is designed
to use a stick with only up and down and the trigger.

I have several projects I've had to shove back because I can't setup
controllers from within the software. I want the user to be able to adjust
it themselves, meaning from the interface I've designed for them.

I'll probably port them to the first xTalk that comes up with that feature
or reliable external.
------------
> I will ponder what you have said and get back to you if I find anything
> useful.
-----------
Sure, thanks. On or off list is OK.

Ken N.


From devin_asay at byu.edu  Fri Feb 13 18:59:13 2004
From: devin_asay at byu.edu (Devin Asay)
Date: Fri, 13 Feb 2004 16:59:13 -0700
Subject: Set browser "helper" app
In-Reply-To: <20040213205716.7226F930453@mail.runrev.com>
References: <20040213205716.7226F930453@mail.runrev.com>
Message-ID: <9FC3E6DC-5E80-11D8-B29D-000A95A6A138@byu.edu>

Does anyone know how to set the most commonly-used browsers in OS X to 
automatically launch a rev stack (with Rev or some compiled Rev 
launcher app) when it is clicked on in a web page? I want to be able to 
have a user click on a stack link in my web page and have it launch, 
instead of merely download or even try to show the contents in the web 
page. Like happens when you click on a pdf link.

TIA

Devin

Devin Asay
Humanities Technology and Research Support Center
Brigham Young University


From alex at mindlube.com  Fri Feb 13 19:20:46 2004
From: alex at mindlube.com (Alex Rice)
Date: Fri, 13 Feb 2004 17:20:46 -0700
Subject: Set browser "helper" app
In-Reply-To: <9FC3E6DC-5E80-11D8-B29D-000A95A6A138@byu.edu>
References: <20040213205716.7226F930453@mail.runrev.com>
	<9FC3E6DC-5E80-11D8-B29D-000A95A6A138@byu.edu>
Message-ID: <A266807E-5E83-11D8-86E9-000393C4760A@mindlube.com>


On Feb 13, 2004, at 4:59 PM, Devin Asay wrote:

> Does anyone know how to set the most commonly-used browsers in OS X to 
> automatically launch a rev stack (with Rev or some compiled Rev 
> launcher app) when it is clicked on in a web page? I want to be able 
> to have a user click on a stack link in my web page and have it 
> launch, instead of merely download or even try to show the contents in 
> the web page. Like happens when you click on a pdf link.

Safari.app doesn't seem to have helper apps in the usual browser sense. 
I think it relies on Launch Services (like Finder) to decide how to 
"open" a file.

FWIW, in my experience, the ".rev" filetype is almost impossible to get 
configured to launch Revolution consistently on OS X. Because The 
runrev Distribution builder has been putting ".rev" as the document 
type for *everyone's* standalone applications. Monte says that's 
getting fixed in the next release of Runrev. But there will still be 
lots of standalone apps out there with ".rev" as their document type.

If you are trying to get a file to download instead of being displayed 
in the browser, that has been covered on this list many times so check 
the archives :-)

--
Alex Rice | Mindlube Software | http://mindlube.com


From doug at webcrossing.com  Fri Feb 13 19:32:31 2004
From: doug at webcrossing.com (Doug Lerner)
Date: Sat, 14 Feb 2004 09:32:31 +0900
Subject: PowerPoint to Rev stack conversion?
Message-ID: <BC539BAF.26A24%doug@webcrossing.com>

Has anybody ever tried a PPT -> Rev stack conversion?

doug


From pixelbird at interisland.net  Fri Feb 13 19:32:46 2004
From: pixelbird at interisland.net (Ken Norris)
Date: Fri, 13 Feb 2004 16:32:46 -0800
Subject: OT: Village signing [was: RR as a browser plugin?]
In-Reply-To: <20040213205717.9D0D9930456@mail.runrev.com>
Message-ID: <BC52ACAD.4F8C%pixelbird@interisland.net>

on 2/13/04 12:57 PM, use-revolution-request at lists.runrev.com at
use-revolution-request at lists.runrev.com wrote:

> Date: Fri, 13 Feb 2004 12:07:51 -0800 (PST)
> From: Judy Perry <jperryl at ecs.fullerton.edu>
> Subject: Re: OT: Village signing [was: RR as a browser plugin?]
> 
> Hi Ken,
> 
> Video...
> 
> Or maybe I don't understand what you mean??
------------
Probably the other way round ;-)

You said:

> For kids, make it into a game (hence, my Mr. Potatohead idea -- present
> body parts to them -- the signs, that is

...Mr Potatohead doesn't have moveable hands/fingers AFAIK, so how can you
have it present a sign?

...is what I meant...

Ken N.


From doug at webcrossing.com  Fri Feb 13 19:42:56 2004
From: doug at webcrossing.com (Doug Lerner)
Date: Sat, 14 Feb 2004 09:42:56 +0900
Subject: Building app distributions - some best practices?
Message-ID: <BC539E20.26A2B%doug@webcrossing.com>

I have an app I have been working on, with versions for OS X, OS 9, Windows
and Linux. The app consists of the executable and also a data folder that
goes in the same directory of the app. I'm developing on OS X.

Here is what I've been doing so far for each distribution to make it
available, with some questions to. I would love to hear how other people
recommend doing this as well.

OS X
----
This is the easiest. I select the app and the data file and then choose
"create archive from 2 items" from the Panther finder menu. Then I rename
archive.zip to the nameOfMyApp.zip. I see no problems with this so far.

Windows
-------
I do the same as for the OS X build. This works, but when I expand the
archive on the Windows machine there is always an extra folder inside called
_MACOSX. Inside that extra folder there are what appear to be 1K aliases to
all the files in the app directory itself. Anybody know why this happens?

Linux
-----
In the Terminal, I go to the directory containing the app and first "chmod
+x" the app to turn on it's execution permission bit. I don't know why
Revolution doesn't automatically do this. Then I tar and gzip the app and
datafile. This seems to work ok.

OS 9
----
I am not sure of the best way to bundle this for distribution, because the
app needs to preserve its macbinary resource fork. What do people use for
this so they can distribute it?

Thanks!

doug


From pixelbird at interisland.net  Fri Feb 13 19:54:28 2004
From: pixelbird at interisland.net (Ken Norris)
Date: Fri, 13 Feb 2004 16:54:28 -0800
Subject: Aerial Photography -- my favorite camera
In-Reply-To: <20040213205717.9D0D9930456@mail.runrev.com>
Message-ID: <BC52B1C4.4F8D%pixelbird@interisland.net>

Howdy list,

I intend to start doing aerial photography again this year on a limited but
higher quality basis.

I have no budget to speak of, and am looking for support. I want to use
higher tech equipment like this:

<http://www.vexcel.com/products/ultracam.html>

('scuse me while I wipe off slobber from my shirt ;-))

...but I think I may be able to use Rev to do a better job of logging the
data _for my purposes_ than their somewhat convoluted image base software.

Suggestions?

Ken N.


From pixelbird at interisland.net  Fri Feb 13 20:17:20 2004
From: pixelbird at interisland.net (Ken Norris)
Date: Fri, 13 Feb 2004 17:17:20 -0800
Subject: Sticky palettes
In-Reply-To: <20040214004334.0DD22930467@mail.runrev.com>
Message-ID: <BC52B720.4F92%pixelbird@interisland.net>

Howdy,

In SC there is a cool function called dragWindow wherein you can get one
window (in this case a palette window) to stick to another window, i.e.,
when you drag the one, the other sticks to it in the designated position.

Its very convenient for 'docking' a palette window into another window.

Is there such a function in Rev, and if so what is it?

I'd kinda like to have that function because I'm trying to knock out a
5-window record system for a new volunteer program that just launched and is
in need of some personnel-matching and record-keeping.

If not, can I get a suggestion or two for an emulation of that function?

Generally I want the palette to float, but it would be convenient if it
could dock into the top window for screen real estate mangement.

TIA,
Ken N. 


From 3mcgrath at adelphia.net  Fri Feb 13 20:17:24 2004
From: 3mcgrath at adelphia.net (Thomas McGrath III)
Date: Fri, 13 Feb 2004 20:17:24 -0500
Subject: Exocet dreams
In-Reply-To: <BC529940.4F80%pixelbird@interisland.net>
References: <BC529940.4F80%pixelbird@interisland.net>
Message-ID: <8BE6057D-5E8B-11D8-85F5-000A95DA60FA@adelphia.net>

Ken,
On Feb 13, 2004, at 6:09 PM, Ken Norris wrote:

> Hi Thomas,
>
>> Date: Fri, 13 Feb 2004 14:59:00 -0500
>> From: Thomas McGrath III <3mcgrath at adelphia.net>
>> Subject: Re: Exocet dreams
>
>> 4.) Although very difficult and mostly out of your control there are
>> some drivers built in for simple control (serial keys, mouse keys)
> -----------
> Built into what? I don't see much USB control (game controller sockets)
Windows has a few drivers (one free from Aug Comm) and Macintosh has 
Mousekeys. Almost all AAC devices can 'hook' up to these and perform 
mouse movement and key selection (even single switches). And any 
controller (game) will have it's own driver that can be captured for 
selection and mouse movement. SO: instead of trying to make the device 
do all of the work (although it can if you have that kind of access) 
but rather make use of a limited method of input and make the software 
handle the rest.
Think about a scanning mouse on the computer that can jump back and 
forth between the desktop space and a palette of your own controls. 
Then with a lot of if then's etc. use that to do your full access 
system. I it's rawest form I only need one button with an up down state 
to run the whole computer. Some things will take more time than we are 
used to but it is doable.

The thing I see is that if they could only do two states Up and Down 
(on and off) you could still use just that to do thousands of things.

> -----------
>> so if a switch exists it may have it's own driver and all you may 
>> need is
>> two actions on/off to control most every thing.
> -----------
> Well, the single switch was just one example, sorry I made it look too
> exclusive.
But other devices have drivers that send simple commands just like the 
mouse. Don't try and control the device but rather let the device 
control your software. Every controller I have seen has a mouse mode 
and a select button mode.

> Single switches can be handled relatively easy in several ways, 
> including
> keyboard overlays. My current study is a SuperCard project which is 
> designed
> to use a stick with only up and down and the trigger.
>
> I have several projects I've had to shove back because I can't setup
> controllers from within the software. I want the user to be able to 
> adjust
> it themselves, meaning from the interface I've designed for them.
This of course would mean getting into the device and other than USB 
overdrive I don't know of many other drivers with that kind of control. 
You would have to get with the company and know so lower level computer 
language to get in to their driver.

Have you played with MouseKeys on the MAC? Use it with a device or 
stick.

Tom

> I'll probably port them to the first xTalk that comes up with that 
> feature
> or reliable external.
> ------------
>> I will ponder what you have said and get back to you if I find 
>> anything
>> useful.
> -----------
> Sure, thanks. On or off list is OK.
>
> Ken N.
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>
>

Thomas J. McGrath III
SCS
1000 Killarney Dr.
Pittsburgh, PA 15234
412-885-8541


From m.mackenzie at sasktel.net  Fri Feb 13 20:20:52 2004
From: m.mackenzie at sasktel.net (Mark MacKenzie)
Date: Fri, 13 Feb 2004 19:20:52 -0600
Subject: Stack no long resizable?
Message-ID: <402D77F4.2070609@sasktel.net>

I have a stack that is no longer resizeable in the development platform 
or when in the browse cursor form.

I can change its dimensions within the property inspector (stack) and 
the stack resizes and stays that way but I cannot grab the window frame 
and resize it..  The min  settings are each at 32 while the max   is at 
575 and 600 pixels.  The stack mode is toplevel. It is a substack of 
another stack which is in palette mode. 

The can't delete function is enabled but the stack is left in modifiable 
form within the property inspector.

I did once use that object palette rezier object in a test.  Ran into 
problems with it and deleted it from the stack.  I cannot find any 
scripting which would disable the direct resizable character of this stack.

Can anyone suggest how I can effectively get this back without having to 
input numbers into the respective property inspector?

Mark MacKenzie


From 3mcgrath at adelphia.net  Fri Feb 13 20:21:06 2004
From: 3mcgrath at adelphia.net (Thomas McGrath III)
Date: Fri, 13 Feb 2004 20:21:06 -0500
Subject: Set browser "helper" app
In-Reply-To: <A266807E-5E83-11D8-86E9-000393C4760A@mindlube.com>
References: <20040213205716.7226F930453@mail.runrev.com>
	<9FC3E6DC-5E80-11D8-B29D-000A95A6A138@byu.edu>
	<A266807E-5E83-11D8-86E9-000393C4760A@mindlube.com>
Message-ID: <0FFD5AE9-5E8C-11D8-85F5-000A95DA60FA@adelphia.net>

Devin,
I don't know how but downloading is automatic html.

I am sure what you want to know is how to set a downloaded 
stack/standalone to launch? I tried to search the Rev list but found 
too many non related things. Probably better to search the Web instead.

If I find any thing I will send it to you.

Tom
On Feb 13, 2004, at 7:20 PM, Alex Rice wrote:

>
> On Feb 13, 2004, at 4:59 PM, Devin Asay wrote:
>
>> Does anyone know how to set the most commonly-used browsers in OS X 
>> to automatically launch a rev stack (with Rev or some compiled Rev 
>> launcher app) when it is clicked on in a web page? I want to be able 
>> to have a user click on a stack link in my web page and have it 
>> launch, instead of merely download or even try to show the contents 
>> in the web page. Like happens when you click on a pdf link.
>
> Safari.app doesn't seem to have helper apps in the usual browser 
> sense. I think it relies on Launch Services (like Finder) to decide 
> how to "open" a file.
>
> FWIW, in my experience, the ".rev" filetype is almost impossible to 
> get configured to launch Revolution consistently on OS X. Because The 
> runrev Distribution builder has been putting ".rev" as the document 
> type for *everyone's* standalone applications. Monte says that's 
> getting fixed in the next release of Runrev. But there will still be 
> lots of standalone apps out there with ".rev" as their document type.
>
> If you are trying to get a file to download instead of being displayed 
> in the browser, that has been covered on this list many times so check 
> the archives :-)
>
> --
> Alex Rice | Mindlube Software | http://mindlube.com
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>
>

Thomas J. McGrath III
SCS
1000 Killarney Dr.
Pittsburgh, PA 15234
412-885-8541


From 3mcgrath at adelphia.net  Fri Feb 13 20:30:44 2004
From: 3mcgrath at adelphia.net (Thomas McGrath III)
Date: Fri, 13 Feb 2004 20:30:44 -0500
Subject: PowerPoint to Rev stack conversion?
In-Reply-To: <BC539BAF.26A24%doug@webcrossing.com>
References: <BC539BAF.26A24%doug@webcrossing.com>
Message-ID: <684B000C-5E8D-11D8-85F5-000A95DA60FA@adelphia.net>

Yes and it is a nightmare!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

If you are using the Mac go and get keynote and open your powerpoint in 
keynote and then export as an interactive quicktime.
Keynote will make the PPT look better.
Interactive Quicktime will keep all of the transitions and builds.
It will lose any hyperlinks but if you know how to do quicktime 
hotspots you can put them back in. Or you can get the movie time and 
act on mouse ups that way.

If you can not use quicktime then do what I did and export from PPT as 
png slides to the size you need. Then in rev build a folder loading 
scheme into a single image with next prev buttons.

I did over 500 slides this way using 75 different ppt presentations 
with transparent buttons over some of them for navigation etc.

Interesting note:
Keynote saves presentations in XML and you can get the Apple Schema 
online.
That data can be brought into REV raw and use Rev's XML tools with it. 
(That would be a big project)

HTH

TOm
On Feb 13, 2004, at 7:32 PM, Doug Lerner wrote:

> Has anybody ever tried a PPT -> Rev stack conversion?
>
> doug
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>
>

Thomas J. McGrath III
SCS
1000 Killarney Dr.
Pittsburgh, PA 15234
412-885-8541


From scott at tactilemedia.com  Fri Feb 13 20:31:50 2004
From: scott at tactilemedia.com (Scott Rossi)
Date: Fri, 13 Feb 2004 17:31:50 -0800
Subject: Sticky palettes
In-Reply-To: <BC52B720.4F92%pixelbird@interisland.net>
Message-ID: <BC52BA86.A079%scott@tactilemedia.com>

On 2/13/04 5:17 PM, "Ken Norris" <pixelbird at interisland.net> wrote:

> In SC there is a cool function called dragWindow wherein you can get one
> window (in this case a palette window) to stick to another window, i.e.,
> when you drag the one, the other sticks to it in the designated position.
> 
> Its very convenient for 'docking' a palette window into another window.
> 
> Is there such a function in Rev, and if so what is it?

Nope.


> If not, can I get a suggestion or two for an emulation of that function?

You can iteravely (is this a word?) cycle through all the windows you want
to "dock" and set their locations relative to the window being dragged.  Not
the best solution visually but possible.

Or...

Establish a mechanism whereby when one window is "docked" to another, you
physically resize/recreate the destination window to accommodate both its
own content and the content of the "dockee" window (and hide the original
"dockee").  Depending on your content, this could be a lot of work.

If you design a "master window" that takes into account all possible windows
that can be docked to it, and build it in advance, you may be able to simply
enable and disable at will groups of content in the master window that
represent the docked windows, if that makes sense.

Other folks may have alternate suggestions.

Regards,

Scott Rossi
Creative Director
Tactile Media, Development & Design
-----
E: scott at tactilemedia.com
W: http://www.tactilemedia.com


From doug at webcrossing.com  Fri Feb 13 20:32:54 2004
From: doug at webcrossing.com (Doug Lerner)
Date: Sat, 14 Feb 2004 10:32:54 +0900
Subject: PowerPoint to Rev stack conversion?
In-Reply-To: <684B000C-5E8D-11D8-85F5-000A95DA60FA@adelphia.net>
Message-ID: <BC53A9D6.26A4D%doug@webcrossing.com>

Very useful reply. Thanks for the info!

doug

On 2/14/04 10:30 AM, "Thomas McGrath III" <3mcgrath at adelphia.net> wrote:

> Yes and it is a nightmare!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
> 
> If you are using the Mac go and get keynote and open your powerpoint in
> keynote and then export as an interactive quicktime.
> Keynote will make the PPT look better.
> Interactive Quicktime will keep all of the transitions and builds.
> It will lose any hyperlinks but if you know how to do quicktime
> hotspots you can put them back in. Or you can get the movie time and
> act on mouse ups that way.
> 
> If you can not use quicktime then do what I did and export from PPT as
> png slides to the size you need. Then in rev build a folder loading
> scheme into a single image with next prev buttons.
> 
> I did over 500 slides this way using 75 different ppt presentations
> with transparent buttons over some of them for navigation etc.
> 
> Interesting note:
> Keynote saves presentations in XML and you can get the Apple Schema
> online.
> That data can be brought into REV raw and use Rev's XML tools with it.
> (That would be a big project)
> 
> HTH
> 
> TOm
> On Feb 13, 2004, at 7:32 PM, Doug Lerner wrote:
> 
>> Has anybody ever tried a PPT -> Rev stack conversion?
>> 
>> doug
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> use-revolution mailing list
>> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>> 
>> 
> 
> Thomas J. McGrath III
> SCS
> 1000 Killarney Dr.
> Pittsburgh, PA 15234
> 412-885-8541
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution


From erikhans08 at yahoo.com  Fri Feb 13 20:51:23 2004
From: erikhans08 at yahoo.com (Erik Hansen)
Date: Fri, 13 Feb 2004 17:51:23 -0800 (PST)
Subject: My pop up menu deselects my text...
In-Reply-To: <l03130300bc52e892c16f@[62.25.133.253]>
Message-ID: <20040214015123.39918.qmail@web61104.mail.yahoo.com>

--- Martin Baxter <martin at harbourtown.co.uk>
wrote:

> I don't think it (property)
> is exposed in the property inspector

nice phrase.

=====
erik at erikhansen.org    http://www.erikhansen.org

__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Finance: Get your refund fast by filing online.
http://taxes.yahoo.com/filing.html

From doug at webcrossing.com  Fri Feb 13 21:26:35 2004
From: doug at webcrossing.com (Doug Lerner)
Date: Sat, 14 Feb 2004 11:26:35 +0900
Subject: Digest from this list?
Message-ID: <BC53B66B.26A7D%doug@webcrossing.com>

A co-worker of mine who subscribes to the digest form of this list says she
has stopped receiving email. Does anybody know if there happens to be a
problem with the digest?

Thanks,

doug


From dsc at swcp.com  Fri Feb 13 21:45:14 2004
From: dsc at swcp.com (Dar Scott)
Date: Fri, 13 Feb 2004 19:45:14 -0700
Subject: Sticky palettes
In-Reply-To: <BC52BA86.A079%scott@tactilemedia.com>
Message-ID: <D121B4A2-5E97-11D8-90D0-000A9567A3E6@swcp.com>


On Friday, February 13, 2004, at 06:31 PM, Scott Rossi wrote:

> If you design a "master window" that takes into account all possible 
> windows
> that can be docked to it, and build it in advance, you may be able to 
> simply
> enable and disable at will groups of content in the master window that
> represent the docked windows, if that makes sense.
>
> Other folks may have alternate suggestions.

Maybe it would be possible to build on this idea.  Maybe it is possible 
for a plugin to take a stack and make a similar group.

Dar Scott


From mwieder at ahsoftware.net  Fri Feb 13 21:49:09 2004
From: mwieder at ahsoftware.net (Mark Wieder)
Date: Fri, 13 Feb 2004 18:49:09 -0800
Subject: No subject
In-Reply-To: <C1164E2C-5E58-11D8-9500-00039303CE26@southernct.edu>
References: <C1164E2C-5E58-11D8-9500-00039303CE26@southernct.edu>
Message-ID: <10284882104.20040213184909@ahsoftware.net>

Dan-

Friday, February 13, 2004, 11:13:49 AM, you wrote:

DS> I'm using Rev 2.1.2 on Mac OS X 10.2.6. Maybe it's different in
DS> Panther? Windows?

Nope. Works fine here for rev 2.1.2 under OSX 10.2.8 and Win2k.

-- 
-Mark Wieder
 mwieder at ahsoftware.net


From mwieder at ahsoftware.net  Fri Feb 13 21:53:50 2004
From: mwieder at ahsoftware.net (Mark Wieder)
Date: Fri, 13 Feb 2004 18:53:50 -0800
Subject: Digest from this list?
In-Reply-To: <BC53B66B.26A7D%doug@webcrossing.com>
References: <BC53B66B.26A7D%doug@webcrossing.com>
Message-ID: <10885162697.20040213185350@ahsoftware.net>

Doug-

Digests are working fine here.

-- 
-Mark Wieder
 mwieder at ahsoftware.net


From mwieder at ahsoftware.net  Fri Feb 13 22:16:44 2004
From: mwieder at ahsoftware.net (Mark Wieder)
Date: Fri, 13 Feb 2004 19:16:44 -0800
Subject: Latitude and longitude
Message-ID: <10686536522.20040213191644@ahsoftware.net>

hi-

I had to share this:

I'm converting some of my old OS9 code and came across the need to
specify latitude and longitude. This is easy in OS9 - you bring up the
Map control panel and set a location. Your latitude and longitude are
stored in PRAM and you can retrieve them with a call to the OS.

OSX has dropped the Map control panel and there's no replacement. The
Carbon interface still lets you get at the raw data, though, so
nothing destroys the info that you put in there from OS9. Looking
around for something to replace the Map control panel short of writing
my own I found EarthGlobe v0.9:

http://www.garycmartin.com/osx/

This is a very cool thing. It puts a globe on your desktop and updates
the current position of the daylight line. You can set your location
by command-dragging the globe to rotate it until you're dead center.

Now - I imagine I'm going to have to whip up an external to get at the
location info for my application, and that will take care of OSX for
me - does anyone have an idea how to do this in Windows? I know how to
grab the TimeZone information, but that's as close as I can get. I
don't think there's any sort of location information in the Windows
API. Is there a better way of doing this short of having the user type
in the info and put it into the app preferences?

And *why* did Apple drop something as useful as the Map control panel?

-- 
-Mark
 mwieder at ahsoftware.net


From ambassador at fourthworld.com  Fri Feb 13 22:25:27 2004
From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin)
Date: Fri, 13 Feb 2004 19:25:27 -0800
Subject: Set browser "helper" app
In-Reply-To: <9FC3E6DC-5E80-11D8-B29D-000A95A6A138@byu.edu>
Message-ID: <BC52D527.3D5F4%ambassador@fourthworld.com>

Devin Asay wrote:

> Does anyone know how to set the most commonly-used browsers in OS X to
> automatically launch a rev stack (with Rev or some compiled Rev
> launcher app) when it is clicked on in a web page? I want to be able to
> have a user click on a stack link in my web page and have it launch,
> instead of merely download or even try to show the contents in the web
> page. Like happens when you click on a pdf link.

You can do this by adding the appropriate MIME type in the prefs for any
browser -- except Apple's Safari. :(
 
I use Mozilla and I just launched stack files from my Web site.  :(

Th MIME types are there somewhere, only it seems Apple didn't provide an
interface for editing them. There must be a way to hack this very basic
functionality -- anyone know how?  :\

-- 
 Richard Gaskin 
 Fourth World Media Corporation
 ___________________________________________________________
 Ambassador at FourthWorld.com       http://www.FourthWorld.com


From 3mcgrath at adelphia.net  Fri Feb 13 22:42:42 2004
From: 3mcgrath at adelphia.net (Thomas McGrath III)
Date: Fri, 13 Feb 2004 22:42:42 -0500
Subject: Sticky palettes
In-Reply-To: <D121B4A2-5E97-11D8-90D0-000A9567A3E6@swcp.com>
References: <D121B4A2-5E97-11D8-90D0-000A9567A3E6@swcp.com>
Message-ID: <D843D780-5E9F-11D8-85F5-000A95DA60FA@adelphia.net>

Ken,

I have this stack that does it. BUT i used someone else's code and 
butchered it to suit my needs. It works. That is all I can say. But the 
code is not very pretty.

put this in the message box:

go url "http://users.adelphia.net/~3mcgrath/JFT.rev"

Select the "open reader" and then drag around. Also the main purple 
window is a palette and it is also set to systemWindow as well.


HTH

TOm
On Feb 13, 2004, at 9:45 PM, Dar Scott wrote:

>
> On Friday, February 13, 2004, at 06:31 PM, Scott Rossi wrote:
>
>> If you design a "master window" that takes into account all possible 
>> windows
>> that can be docked to it, and build it in advance, you may be able to 
>> simply
>> enable and disable at will groups of content in the master window that
>> represent the docked windows, if that makes sense.
>>
>> Other folks may have alternate suggestions.
>
> Maybe it would be possible to build on this idea.  Maybe it is 
> possible for a plugin to take a stack and make a similar group.
>
> Dar Scott
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>
>

Thomas J. McGrath III
SCS
1000 Killarney Dr.
Pittsburgh, PA 15234
412-885-8541


From tbandi at swissonline.ch  Fri Feb 13 23:12:07 2004
From: tbandi at swissonline.ch (Till Bandi)
Date: Sat, 14 Feb 2004 05:12:07 +0100
Subject: When's the Rest of Dan's Book Due?
In-Reply-To: <603EA747-58C3-11D8-A691-0030656FB5D4@danshafer.com>
References: <603EA747-58C3-11D8-A691-0030656FB5D4@danshafer.com>
Message-ID: <F4543B35-5EA3-11D8-B6F4-0003936B4B9C@swissonline.ch>

can you tell us when "next week" will be ? or did I miss your 
announcement?

Till


Am 06.02.2004 um 17:41 schrieb Dan Shafer:

> During MacWorld SF in January -- at which every copy of my book that 
> Rev could get to the show was sold by the third day -- Kevin and I 
> discussed the publishing plan going forward. I had been studying the 
> relatively recent development over at Adam Angst's TidBits operation 
> with some interest. (FYI, if you don't know it, they are publishing 
> small books focused on a single topic at $5 each and delivering in PDF 
> format.)
>
> Kevin and I liked that concept a lot. And as you probably know I had 
> already anticipated releasing chapters of my book to those who joined 
> RevolutionPros.com at the Leader ($197) level prior to publication and 
> free anyway.
>
> So what we've decided to do is to release the chapters of Volumes 2 
> and 3 incrementally. As I finish a chapter in draft, it will go to 
> those who are Leader level members of my online community. They'll 
> give me some feedback (hopefully) and then I'll do a final version and 
> release it for sale at something in the $5 per chapter neighborhood. 
> My plan is to release a chapter about every week or so, sometimes two 
> in a week.
>
> Then when we have a full book-sized collection of chapters, we'll 
> combine them into an immediately available PDF and Kevin will take 
> them to print for distribution in hard copy format.
>
> This means you can buy only the chapters in which you are interested, 
> when you are interested in them. Whether you buy the full book 
> collection or not is up to you (unless, again, you are a Leader member 
> in RevolutionPros.com, in which case you get it free anyway).
>
> Furthermore, I'm going to let the community help me decide the *order* 
> in which to release the chapters. I'll be posting a complete list of 
> the subjects on RevPros some time this weekend and allowing members 
> there to vote for which ones they'd like to see sooner than later. 
> I'll focus on those that get the biggest response *except* where I 
> know something about a future Rev development or a third-party product 
> that could change the chapter substantially.
>
> So to recap: chapter-by-chapter electronic releases first to my 
> community, then to the community at large; books accumulated when 
> critical mass dictates and released first electronically and then in 
> print; order of things determined in large part by community voting.
>
> First chapter for Volume 2 -- which will cover CGI development and use 
> -- next week.
>
> Don't just sit there, revolt!
>
>
> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
> Dan Shafer, Revolutionary
> Author of  "Revolution: Software at the Speed of Thought"
> http://www.revolutionpros.com for more info
> Available at Runtime Revolution Store (http://www.runrev.com/RevPress)
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>


From doug at webcrossing.com  Fri Feb 13 23:19:35 2004
From: doug at webcrossing.com (Doug Lerner)
Date: Sat, 14 Feb 2004 13:19:35 +0900
Subject: xml or other complete text representation of a control?
Message-ID: <BC53D0E7.26AB8%doug@webcrossing.com>

Is there some way of generating an xml or other complete text representation
of a graphic or field or other control for writing to a file and then
re-importing?

doug


From pixelbird at interisland.net  Fri Feb 13 23:34:01 2004
From: pixelbird at interisland.net (Ken Norris)
Date: Fri, 13 Feb 2004 20:34:01 -0800
Subject: Sticky palettes
In-Reply-To: <20040214024602.221A393005F@mail.runrev.com>
Message-ID: <BC52E539.4F9B%pixelbird@interisland.net>

Hi Scott,

> Date: Fri, 13 Feb 2004 17:31:50 -0800
> From: Scott Rossi <scott at tactilemedia.com>
> Subject: Re: Sticky palettes

>> 
>> Is there such a function in Rev, and if so what is it?
> 
> Nope.
----------
Oh well, too bad.
----------
> 
>> If not, can I get a suggestion or two for an emulation of that function?
> 
> You can iteravely (is this a word?) cycle through all the windows you want
> to "dock" and set their locations relative to the window being dragged.  Not
> the best solution visually but possible.
----------
I think I see what your saying. However there is only one window to dock.
I.e., it's basically a small navigation palette I want to dock to another
window.

Let me change the question: Can I poll a window's location as I drag it by
its titlebar?

TIA,
Ken N.


From jperryl at ecs.fullerton.edu  Fri Feb 13 23:35:38 2004
From: jperryl at ecs.fullerton.edu (Judy Perry)
Date: Fri, 13 Feb 2004 20:35:38 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Trying to buy Dan's book
In-Reply-To: <000701c3f27d$a669a100$5602a8c0@athalon>
Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.4.33.0402132034440.4687-100000@titan.ecs.fullerton.edu>

I bought it about a week ago.  I think I had within a 1-day turnaround...

But I can't find a Kinko's to print out and bind the d*mned thing!

Judy

On Fri, 13 Feb 2004, Stephen King wrote:

> I can vouch for what Jacqueline says. I just bought Dans book a few days
> ago.
> Things are a little slower at the moment, but if you don't hear after a few
> days, just give a polite reminder to the RunRev team. They will respond and
> follow up.
>
> It does work.
>
> By the way - Dans book is pretty awesome!


From jperryl at ecs.fullerton.edu  Fri Feb 13 23:41:08 2004
From: jperryl at ecs.fullerton.edu (Judy Perry)
Date: Fri, 13 Feb 2004 20:41:08 -0800 (PST)
Subject: OT: Village signing [was: RR as a browser plugin?]
In-Reply-To: <BC52ACAD.4F8C%pixelbird@interisland.net>
Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.4.33.0402132036230.4687-100000@titan.ecs.fullerton.edu>

Ahhh...

No.

I've done a beta of  it in Director (ugh.  can't begin to tell you how
painful that was apparently because of a conflict between Director and a
M$ drag-n-drop thingy that resulted in repeated crashes that ultimately
resulted in my needing to emergency hose my HD a record FOUR TIMES).

On one side of the screen is a retro-looking TV graphic into which there
is a play button which plays the video of the sign for some body part,
which is displayed to the right.  The video is of an actual human
performing the sign.  This goes on for three to five body parts, then we
have the 'quiz':

Same setup:  TV to the left with play button for playing a video of a
sign, but this time to the right are *three* possible body parts; the user
clicks hopefully on the correct one, which transports them to the place
where they get to choose between hairy ears, pointed ears or bejeweled
ears for Mr/Ms Spudz...

I think it's doable... I just need to have less on my plate.

Of course, feedback is always welcomed!

Judy

On Fri, 13 Feb 2004, Ken Norris wrote:

> Probably the other way round ;-)
>
> You said:
>
> > For kids, make it into a game (hence, my Mr. Potatohead idea -- present
> > body parts to them -- the signs, that is
>
> ...Mr Potatohead doesn't have moveable hands/fingers AFAIK, so how can you
> have it present a sign?
>
> ...is what I meant...


From b.xavier at internet.lu  Sat Feb 14 00:13:41 2004
From: b.xavier at internet.lu (MisterX)
Date: Sat, 14 Feb 2004 06:13:41 +0100
Subject: Ann: DiscreteBrowser 1.1 (Was StealthBrowser) release
In-Reply-To: <402D3456.4030207@hrz.uni-kassel.de>
Message-ID: <ENEALNOCJBOOOHHCCEKNMECEFNAA.b.xavier@internet.lu>

Jan,

I respect you! truely you are inspiration for many here!

I know the reg is a nag... But I've had my site wiped clean once.

Once...

Put it this way: you dont have to deal with popups, nags, spywares, risk of
buffer over/underflows, virii; NO ADDS or banners; pure fun anywhere you
click (except for the user's info ;) I got to market this better I admit,
but hey, it's FREE!

Choice to do what you want (just ask! am currently adding chat by popular
demand and ftp is not cooperating ;). It's got all the features a site could
want not excluding some wild mp3s made with a certain belgian hypercard like
software for music (hey!), and free xtalk software (just look at the
downloads!).

Too bad no one really goes out of their way to hyperText their website the
way I do (comments, forums, submissions, how many link to monsieurx in the
RR/MC world?), but I think it's worth my while to assure that those that are
interested in "my x world" do the effort to attain that wild beingness by
joining in and being something else than just another lame user in another
cyber space!

"The revolution will not be televised,
The revolution will be live..." Gill Scott (must hear)

Now you got me started again with the php-nuke interface stack idea...
php-editor (on you know what), 10 million settings in one GUI and
auto-generation of dynamic php scritps via xos... ;(

You have my gratitude for this effort of great magnitude!
(not a Kentucky fried Movie quotation but almost...)

> -----Original Message-----
> From: use-revolution-bounces at lists.runrev.com
> [mailto:use-revolution-bounces at lists.runrev.com]On Behalf Of Wilhelm
> Sanke
> Sent: Friday, February 13, 2004 21:32
> To: use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> Subject: Re: Ann: DiscreteBrowser 1.1 (Was StealthBrowser) release
>
>
> On Fri, 13 Feb 2004 "MisterX" <b.xavier at internet.lu> wrote:
>
> > Thanks to all of you, here the release of a new and improved
> > DiscreteBrowser
> > for runrev. It's not a great browser but it has the basic functions you
> > need. HTML Support is strictly for display, no forms or scripts or any
> > fancy
> > stuff. Just a plain browser.
> >
> > (snip
> >
> > <http://monsieurx.com/modules.php?name=News&file=article&sid=137>
> >
> > Those who are registered on MonsieurX.com can go here directly
> to download
> >
> > (snip)
> > Xavier
>
> Hi Xavier,
>
> Probably I am among those who would be interested to have a look at your
> browser,
>  but why should I register to a new list, memorize a new user name, a
> new password,
> and get a new sort of cookies?
>
> There are at least 10 free sites of list members which you can access
> without restrictions
>  and download whatever you are interested. Also there is the user
> contributions page of the
>  RunRev site.
>
> Your caveat about spam protection etc. in your letter you referred to
> last time when someone
> asked for the reason to register to your group is not convincing.
>
> Why don't you upload the browser and other stacks to a place where
> everybody can have a look?
>
> Best regards,
>
> "Mister Wilhelm Sanke"
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution


From scott at tactilemedia.com  Sat Feb 14 00:05:39 2004
From: scott at tactilemedia.com (Scott Rossi)
Date: Fri, 13 Feb 2004 21:05:39 -0800
Subject: Sticky palettes
In-Reply-To: <BC52E539.4F9B%pixelbird@interisland.net>
Message-ID: <BC52ECA3.A095%scott@tactilemedia.com>

On 2/13/04 8:34 PM, "Ken Norris" <pixelbird at interisland.net> wrote:

> I think I see what your saying. However there is only one window to dock.
> I.e., it's basically a small navigation palette I want to dock to another
> window.
> 
> Let me change the question: Can I poll a window's location as I drag it by
> its titlebar?

You can if you create you own titlebar.  See the stack referenced earlier
today for an example of two docked windows.  In your message box:

  go url "http://www.tactilemedia.com/download/slider.rev"

If you allow a fair amount of overlap between the windows, say maybe 10
pixels or so, the results will probably be acceptable.

As I mentioned, the hidePalettes property is broken, so a standard palette
window will disappear when the stack is suspended.  But as Thomas McGrath
suggested, if you can live with your window floating above all other
applications, you can set the systemWindow property to prevent the palette
from disappearing.

Regards,

Scott Rossi
Creative Director
Tactile Media, Development & Design
-----
E: scott at tactilemedia.com
W: http://www.tactilemedia.com


From briany at qldlearning.com  Sat Feb 14 00:40:02 2004
From: briany at qldlearning.com (Brian Yennie)
Date: Sat, 14 Feb 2004 00:40:02 -0500
Subject: Digest from this list?
In-Reply-To: <BC53B66B.26A7D%doug@webcrossing.com>
Message-ID: <3C4F61F5-5EB0-11D8-BBCB-000393AA08D2@qldlearning.com>

Usually that means that a subscriber's email has been bouncing, in 
which case the list software automagically removes them.
I would advise her to sign-up again, and then if the problem persists, 
contact the RunRev support.

HTH

Brian

> A co-worker of mine who subscribes to the digest form of this list 
> says she
> has stopped receiving email. Does anybody know if there happens to be a
> problem with the digest?
>
> Thanks,
>
> doug
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>
>


From dsc at swcp.com  Sat Feb 14 00:50:23 2004
From: dsc at swcp.com (Dar Scott)
Date: Fri, 13 Feb 2004 22:50:23 -0700
Subject: version control system (was mission critical apps)
In-Reply-To: <D437685E-5C33-11D8-AF4C-000A9567A3E6@swcp.com>
Message-ID: <AE763690-5EB1-11D8-90D0-000A9567A3E6@swcp.com>


On Tuesday, February 10, 2004, at 06:44 PM, Dar Scott wrote:

> Setting a stack's password property can destroy binary data, so care 
> must be taken to not do that or to store save the data in a safe form.

This seems to be OK in the last few versions.

Dar Scott


From yvescoppe at skynet.be  Sat Feb 14 01:37:04 2004
From: yvescoppe at skynet.be (Yves COPPE)
Date: Sat, 14 Feb 2004 07:37:04 +0100
Subject: Dragging an image to a card?
In-Reply-To: <BC538514.269F6%doug@webcrossing.com>
References: <BC538514.269F6%doug@webcrossing.com>
Message-ID: <341B4F92-5EB8-11D8-902D-003065E14B04@skynet.be>


Le 13 f?vr. 04, ? 23:56, Doug Lerner a ?crit :

> I can browse for an image file and upload it and place the image in a 
> card
> with the answer file dialog.
>
> Is there some way of doing this by dragging an image file to the card
> instead? That would be a nice option, and many applications allow you 
> to do
> that...
>
> doug
>
> _______________________________________________
>


It's very easy.

Look in the archives, Klaus Major has written a sample stack that 
explains the process.


Greetings.

Yves COPPE
yvescoppe at skynet.be


From pixelbird at interisland.net  Sat Feb 14 02:20:34 2004
From: pixelbird at interisland.net (Ken Norris)
Date: Fri, 13 Feb 2004 23:20:34 -0800
Subject: How to make a stack into a substack
In-Reply-To: <20040214024602.221A393005F@mail.runrev.com>
Message-ID: <BC530C42.4F9F%pixelbird@interisland.net>

Howdy,

Somehow, when I Saved in the IDE, one of my substacks ended up as a
mainstack, i.e., a separate file in the same folder.

How do I get it back into my mainstack as a substack, like it was before the
goof?

TIA,
Ken N.


From davis.phil at comcast.net  Sat Feb 14 02:29:34 2004
From: davis.phil at comcast.net (Phil Davis)
Date: Fri, 13 Feb 2004 23:29:34 -0800
Subject: xml or other complete text representation of a control?
In-Reply-To: <BC53D0E7.26AB8%doug@webcrossing.com>
Message-ID: <ILEFKEGKNEFMMOILLJNOGEOCCEAA.davis.phil@comcast.net>

Isn't that pretty much what the SC-to-Rev converter does with SC projects?

One part of the process might look something like:

on convertControlToText
  put the properties of control x into tProps
  combine tProps with cr and "="
  put tProps into url "file:control-x-props"
end convertControlToText


on convertTextToControl
  put url "file:control-x-props" into tProps
  split tProps with cr and "="
  set the properties of the templateControl to tProps
  create control
end convertTextToControl


The above is pseudocode - it won't work as is, and a lot is left out, but it
conveys the idea.

Phil Davis


> -----Original Message-----
> From: use-revolution-bounces at lists.runrev.com
> [mailto:use-revolution-bounces at lists.runrev.com]On Behalf Of Doug Lerner
> Sent: Friday, February 13, 2004 8:20 PM
> To: How to use Revolution
> Subject: xml or other complete text representation of a control?
>
>
> Is there some way of generating an xml or other complete text
> representation
> of a graphic or field or other control for writing to a file and then
> re-importing?
>
> doug
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution


From doug at webcrossing.com  Sat Feb 14 02:34:25 2004
From: doug at webcrossing.com (Doug Lerner)
Date: Sat, 14 Feb 2004 16:34:25 +0900
Subject: How to make a stack into a substack
In-Reply-To: <BC530C42.4F9F%pixelbird@interisland.net>
Message-ID: <BC53FE91.26B09%doug@webcrossing.com>

I believe if you just open them all up you can then, in the Inspector, just
set the mainStack for each one.

doug

On 2/14/04 4:20 PM, "Ken Norris" <pixelbird at interisland.net> wrote:

> Howdy,
> 
> Somehow, when I Saved in the IDE, one of my substacks ended up as a
> mainstack, i.e., a separate file in the same folder.
> 
> How do I get it back into my mainstack as a substack, like it was before the
> goof?
> 
> TIA,
> Ken N.
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution


From doug at webcrossing.com  Sat Feb 14 02:37:47 2004
From: doug at webcrossing.com (Doug Lerner)
Date: Sat, 14 Feb 2004 16:37:47 +0900
Subject: xml or other complete text representation of a control?
In-Reply-To: <ILEFKEGKNEFMMOILLJNOGEOCCEAA.davis.phil@comcast.net>
Message-ID: <BC53FF5B.26B0A%doug@webcrossing.com>

I don't get any result from "the properties" when I try this with graphic or
field objects. Maybe that only works for custom properties?

doug

On 2/14/04 4:29 PM, "Phil Davis" <davis.phil at comcast.net> wrote:

> Isn't that pretty much what the SC-to-Rev converter does with SC projects?
> 
> One part of the process might look something like:
> 
> on convertControlToText
> put the properties of control x into tProps
> combine tProps with cr and "="
> put tProps into url "file:control-x-props"
> end convertControlToText
> 
> 
> on convertTextToControl
> put url "file:control-x-props" into tProps
> split tProps with cr and "="
> set the properties of the templateControl to tProps
> create control
> end convertTextToControl
> 
> 
> The above is pseudocode - it won't work as is, and a lot is left out, but it
> conveys the idea.
> 
> Phil Davis
> 
> 
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: use-revolution-bounces at lists.runrev.com
>> [mailto:use-revolution-bounces at lists.runrev.com]On Behalf Of Doug Lerner
>> Sent: Friday, February 13, 2004 8:20 PM
>> To: How to use Revolution
>> Subject: xml or other complete text representation of a control?
>> 
>> 
>> Is there some way of generating an xml or other complete text
>> representation
>> of a graphic or field or other control for writing to a file and then
>> re-importing?
>> 
>> doug
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> use-revolution mailing list
>> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution


From doug at webcrossing.com  Sat Feb 14 02:56:26 2004
From: doug at webcrossing.com (Doug Lerner)
Date: Sat, 14 Feb 2004 16:56:26 +0900
Subject: Dragging an image to a card?
In-Reply-To: <341B4F92-5EB8-11D8-902D-003065E14B04@skynet.be>
Message-ID: <BC5403BA.26B0B%doug@webcrossing.com>

On 2/14/04 3:37 PM, "Yves COPPE" <yvescoppe at skynet.be> wrote:

> 
> Le 13 f?vr. 04, ? 23:56, Doug Lerner a ?crit :
> 
>> I can browse for an image file and upload it and place the image in a
>> card
>> with the answer file dialog.
>> 
>> Is there some way of doing this by dragging an image file to the card
>> instead? That would be a nice option, and many applications allow you
>> to do
>> that...
>> 
>> doug
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> 
> 
> 
> It's very easy.
> 
> Look in the archives, Klaus Major has written a sample stack that
> explains the process.
>

Interesting. In his script (below) do you see what restricts the images from
being dragged just to the image area, etc?

on dragenter
  set the acceptdrop to true
  ## otherwise you could not drop anything... :-(
end dragenter

on dragdrop
  put the dragdata
  ### just put the path into the msg for info
  
  switch char -4 to -1 of the dragdata
    ### Here is just check the suffix of the dropped files...
    ### Much room for enhancements... ;-)
    
  case ".gif"
  case ".jpg"
  case ".png"
    set the filename of img 1 to the dragdata
    break
  case ".txt"
    put url("file:" & the dragdata) into fld 1
    break
  case ".rtf"
    set the rtftext of fld 1 to url("file:" & the dragdata)
    break
  case ".mov"
  case ".swf"
  case ".avi"
  case ".mpg"
  case ".wav"
  case ".aif"
    set the filename of player 1 to the dragdata
    break
  end switch
end dragdrop


From pixelbird at interisland.net  Sat Feb 14 02:56:45 2004
From: pixelbird at interisland.net (Ken Norris)
Date: Fri, 13 Feb 2004 23:56:45 -0800
Subject: Latitude and longitude
In-Reply-To: <20040214050310.82D6393049D@mail.runrev.com>
Message-ID: <BC5314BD.4FA0%pixelbird@interisland.net>

Hi Mark,

> Date: Fri, 13 Feb 2004 19:16:44 -0800
> From: Mark Wieder <mwieder at ahsoftware.net>
> Subject: Latitude and longitude
> 
> And *why* did Apple drop something as useful as the Map control panel?
-----------
I dunno. It's a bummer for me too.

I don't know what you need the coordinates for, but I just copied the list
of U.S. Cities from the site below into a field. From there I can knockout
superfluous header stuff and parse out what I want. It's not copyrighted.

<http://www.realestate3d.com/gps/latlong.htm>

HTH,
Ken N.


From stephenREVOLUTION at barncard.com  Sat Feb 14 03:24:26 2004
From: stephenREVOLUTION at barncard.com (Stephen Quinn Barncard)
Date: Sat, 14 Feb 2004 00:24:26 -0800
Subject: Latitude and longitude and HIG
Message-ID: <p06020407bc538a0d7f6f@[192.168.1.100]>

>
>
>And *why* did Apple drop something as useful as the Map control panel?
>
>--
>-Mark


For the same reason the geeks from NEXT got "not invented here" 
syndrome, fired Tog and the Human Interface Group, and changed about 
200 conventions and features that worked real well.

I really despise what they've done to the interface. Every day, I 
cringe at the stupid things they've done and the cycle wasting eye 
candy garbage. I hate the way the windows work, and the loss of the 
Applications menu...

I'm a hard core Apple guy and the dark side is worse to me but there 
is no reason for that except arrogance and an attempt to out do MS 
with useless flash.

Having said that, OSX is fairly stable and fairly fast but they 
didn't have to wreck that interface.

sqb


From briany at qldlearning.com  Sat Feb 14 03:26:40 2004
From: briany at qldlearning.com (Brian Yennie)
Date: Sat, 14 Feb 2004 03:26:40 -0500
Subject: xml or other complete text representation of a control?
In-Reply-To: <BC53FF5B.26B0A%doug@webcrossing.com>
Message-ID: <8398A17B-5EC7-11D8-BBCB-000393AA08D2@qldlearning.com>

Doug,

"the properties" returns an associative array, perhaps you were 
treating it as a string?

Check out the following- with the recent CVS thread going on here, I 
banged out this script to convince myself that textual representations 
of stacks weren't too bad. There's a bunch of stuff in here, including 
customProperties and escaping property values so they'll all fit on one 
line, etc, etc.

But mostly, per your question you basically have a couple of options 
for dealing the "the properties" array- use combine (but watch out for 
property values that might contain your delimiter string inside of 
them, esp. with custom properties), or loop through the individual 
elements of the array using either: "repeat for each element e in 
propArray" or "repeat for each line tKey in keys(propArray)".

HTH,
Brian

####################

## DEFINE SOME CONSTANTS
constant kNONE = 0
constant kSTACK = 1
constant kCARD = 2
constant kPART = 3
constant kTYPENAMES = "stack,card,part"

on mouseUp
   ## CHOOSE A FOLDER TO EXPORT THIS STACK TO
   answer folder "Please select a folder to export to."
   if (the result is "Cancel") then exit mouseUp
   exportStack it, the short name of this stack
end mouseUp

on exportStack theDir,whichStack
   put the directory into saveDir
   put the defaultStack into saveDefault

   set the directory to theDir
   set the defaultStack to whichStack

   ## EXPORT THE STACK OBJECT
   textExport kSTACK, the short name of this stack,kNONE,0

   ## LOOP THROUGH EACH CARD AND EXPORT EACH OF ITS PARTS
   ## NOTE:: GROUPS SHOW UP AS THEIR OWN 'PART' ON EACH CARD THEY BELONG 
TO
   repeat with i=1 to (number of cds in this stack)
     exportCard theDir,whichStack,the id of cd i of this stack
   end repeat

   ## RESTORE THE CURRENT DIRECTORY
   set the directory to saveDir
   set the defaultStack to saveDefault
end exportStack

on exportCard theDir,whichStack,cardID
   put the directory into saveDir
   put the defaultStack into saveDefault

   set the directory to theDir
   set the defaultStack to whichStack

   textExport kCARD, cardID,kSTACK,the short name of this stack
   repeat with j=1 to number of cd parts of cd id cardID of this stack
     exportPart theDir,whichStack,cardID,the id of part j of cd id 
cardID of this stack
   end repeat

   set the directory to saveDir
   set the defaultStack to saveDefault
end exportCard

on exportPart theDir,whichStack,cardID,partID
   put the directory into saveDir
   put the defaultStack into saveDefault

   set the directory to theDir
   set the defaultStack to whichStack

   textExport kPART,partID,kCARD,cardID

   set the directory to saveDir
   set the defaultStack to saveDefault
end exportPart


on textExport objectType, objectID, parentType, parentID
   ## FIGURE OUT THE RELATIVE LOCATION OF THE FILES
   switch (objectType)
   case kSTACK
     put (the directory)&"/stack_"&objectID&"/" into parentDir
     break
   case kCARD
     put (the directory)&"/"&(item parentType of 
kTYPENAMES)&"_"&(parentID)&"/card_"&objectID&"/" into parentDir
     break
   case kPART
     put (the directory)&"/"&("stack_"&(the short name of this 
stack))&"/"&(item parentType of 
kTYPENAMES)&"_"&(parentID)&"/part_"&objectID&"/" into parentDir
     break
   end switch

   ## CREATE A FOLDER FOR THIS OBJECT
   create folder parentDir

   if (objectType = kSTACK) then
     put "stack"&&quote&objectID&quote into objectDesc
   else
     put ((item objectType of kTYPENAMES)&" id "&objectID) into 
objectDesc
     put the long id of objectDesc into objectDesc
   end if

   put (parentDir)&(item objectType of kTYPENAMES)&"["&(objectID)&"]" 
into fName

   ## EXPORT THE SCRIPT
   put the script of objectDesc into tScript
   put tScript into url ("file:"&fName&".sct")

   ## EXPORT THE ORDINARY PROPERTIES
   put the properties of objectDesc into tProps
   put extractProps(tProps) into url ("file:"&fName&".prp")
   if (word 1 of the long id of objectDesc is "image") AND (the fileName 
of objectDesc is empty) then
     put compress(the imageData of objectDesc) into url 
("file:"&fName&".image")
     put compress(the alphaData of objectDesc) into url 
("file:"&fName&".alpha")
     put compress(the maskData of objectDesc) into url 
("file:"&fName&".mask")
   end if

   ## EXPORT THE CUSTOM PROPERTIES
   put empty into tCustomProps
   put the customPropertySet of objectDesc into savePropertySet
   repeat for each line tPropertySet in the customPropertySets of 
objectDesc
     set the customPropertySet of objectDesc to tPropertySet
     put the customProperties of objectDesc into tProps
     put tPropertySet&colon&cr&extractProps(tProps)&cr after tCustomProps
   end repeat
   put tCustomProps into url ("file:"&fName&".cst")
   set the customPropertySet of objectDesc to savePropertySet
end textExport

function extractProps @tPropArray
   local tPropData
   repeat for each line tKey in keys(tPropArray)
     put tPropArray[tKey] into tValue
     replace "\" with "\\" in tValue
     replace return with "\r" in tValue
     put tKey&colon&tValue&cr after tPropData
   end repeat
   return tPropData
end extractProps

> I don't get any result from "the properties" when I try this with 
> graphic or
> field objects. Maybe that only works for custom properties?


From yvescoppe at skynet.be  Sat Feb 14 03:51:06 2004
From: yvescoppe at skynet.be (Yves COPPE)
Date: Sat, 14 Feb 2004 09:51:06 +0100
Subject: Dragging an image to a card?
In-Reply-To: <BC5403BA.26B0B%doug@webcrossing.com>
References: <BC5403BA.26B0B%doug@webcrossing.com>
Message-ID: <ED58BCE3-5ECA-11D8-BDC0-003065E14B04@skynet.be>


>
> Interesting. In his script (below) do you see what restricts the 
> images from
> being dragged just to the image area, etc?
>
> on dragenter
>   set the acceptdrop to true
>   ## otherwise you could not drop anything... :-(
> end dragenter
>
> on dragdrop
>   put the dragdata
>   ### just put the path into the msg for info
>
>   switch char -4 to -1 of the dragdata
>     ### Here is just check the suffix of the dropped files...
>     ### Much room for enhancements... ;-)
>
>   case ".gif"
>   case ".jpg"
>   case ".png"
>     set the filename of img 1 to the dragdata
>     break
>   case ".txt"
>     put url("file:" & the dragdata) into fld 1
>     break
>   case ".rtf"
>     set the rtftext of fld 1 to url("file:" & the dragdata)
>     break
>   case ".mov"
>   case ".swf"
>   case ".avi"
>   case ".mpg"
>   case ".wav"
>   case ".aif"
>     set the filename of player 1 to the dragdata
>     break
>   end switch
> end dragdrop
>
>

Hi doug


No time today to explore your script

I can do it tomorrow

Meantime you can perhaps find the stack on Klaus website : 
http://www.major-k.de/

Hope this helps.

Otherwise I will search for you tomorrow. Just drop a line if you don't 
find a solution, I will do it for you but not today

Greetings.

Yves COPPE
yvescoppe at skynet.be


From pixelbird at interisland.net  Sat Feb 14 03:51:29 2004
From: pixelbird at interisland.net (Ken Norris)
Date: Sat, 14 Feb 2004 00:51:29 -0800
Subject: Sticky palettes
In-Reply-To: <20040214050310.82D6393049D@mail.runrev.com>
Message-ID: <BC532191.4FA1%pixelbird@interisland.net>

on 2/13/04 9:03 PM, use-revolution-request at lists.runrev.com at
use-revolution-request at lists.runrev.com wrote:

> Date: Fri, 13 Feb 2004 22:42:42 -0500
> From: Thomas McGrath III <3mcgrath at adelphia.net>
> Subject: Re: Sticky palettes

> I have this stack that does it. BUT i used someone else's code and
> butchered it to suit my needs. It works. That is all I can say. But the
> code is not very pretty.
----------
I thought it was...lots of color seps ;-)

Almost there...thanks very much for the lead.

Yes, I see what's happening, and I've already done lots of similar stuff,
but it's a grab situation, not quite what I wanted.

I want the _palette_ to dock such that it moves with the standard window,
just the opposite of what's happening here. Drag the main standard
_normally_  by its titlebar, and have the palette move with it. I don't
really want it as a live grab, but rather the normal desktop ghost move,
because, as it works in the example, it messes with the screen redraw under
it.

I think the grab is fine for the use it has in the example, but in my
situation, the palette is for navigation, opening and closing windows, and
searches. It's OK for it to travel docked into a window, but I also need to
drag it normally by its own titlebar and pull it free from the mothership.

All it does is stuff I would need to do in each open window, but without
having to repeat the same set of nav buttons, or open a separate search
dialog, or...well, you get it by now, I'm sure. The docking business is just
for convenience.

But the routines in the example are on the right track, and may end up being
the only type of solution, if I can't come up with something to continuosly
retrieve the window loc under normal Windows drag conditions.

Thanks again,
Ken N.



From pixelbird at interisland.net  Sat Feb 14 04:11:25 2004
From: pixelbird at interisland.net (Ken Norris)
Date: Sat, 14 Feb 2004 01:11:25 -0800
Subject: use-revolution Digest, Vol 5, Issue 136
In-Reply-To: <20040214050310.82D6393049D@mail.runrev.com>
Message-ID: <BC53263D.4FA2%pixelbird@interisland.net>

Back again,

> Date: Fri, 13 Feb 2004 22:42:42 -0500
> From: Thomas McGrath III <3mcgrath at adelphia.net>
> Subject: Re: Sticky palettes
> 
> I have this stack that does it.
----------
P.S.

I pretty much have to reject the other suggested alternative, which is a
smoke-and-mirrors workaround.  I can make it do exactly what I want that
way, but it involves creating false window graphics in a real Windows
environment, probably about 8x as much work, and no cross-platform unless I
redid it yet _again_ on the Mac for OSX only.

If it was a big, highly marketable, ready-for-primetime software product, I
wouldn't think twice about it (plus the fun of building it), but this is for
a volunteer Helping Hands local church ministry recordkeeping and
coordinating thingie. It mostly needs to 'just work'. The palette docking
thing is a convenience I thought might help cut back on the time input and
screen real estate if the user has a bunch of other stuff going on when a
call comes in.

Ken N.


From pixelbird at interisland.net  Sat Feb 14 05:03:23 2004
From: pixelbird at interisland.net (Ken Norris)
Date: Sat, 14 Feb 2004 02:03:23 -0800
Subject: Sticky palettes
In-Reply-To: <20040214082817.0607693017C@mail.runrev.com>
Message-ID: <BC53326B.4FA5%pixelbird@interisland.net>

Hi Scott,

> Date: Fri, 13 Feb 2004 21:05:39 -0800
> From: Scott Rossi <scott at tactilemedia.com>
> Subject: Re: Sticky palettes

>> Let me change the question: Can I poll a window's location as I drag it by
>> its titlebar?
> 
> You can if you create you own titlebar.
----------
Well, you're right, and I thought about the titlebar mockup, but I don't
want to confuse the users. I'd need to go for a completely independant set
of integrated thematic graphics. No time for that anymore.
----------
> See the stack referenced earlier
> today for an example of two docked windows.  In your message box:
> 
> go url "http://www.tactilemedia.com/download/slider.rev"
> 
> If you allow a fair amount of overlap between the windows, say maybe 10
> pixels or so, the results will probably be acceptable.
----------
Looks like that's about right. The "drawer" thing is pretty neat too, but
probably the wrong metaphor for my purposes. I want to do the UI for
convenience, but yet not show them unfamiliar stuff.

The grab routine is clean, seems faster than the example I got from Thomas.
----------
> As I mentioned, the hidePalettes property is broken, so a standard palette
> window will disappear when the stack is suspended.  But as Thomas McGrath
> suggested, if you can live with your window floating above all other
> applications, you can set the systemWindow property to prevent the palette
> from disappearing.
-----------
No, that part is good. I want the palette on top while the project is open
anyway.

Thanks much. Cool stuff...:-)

Ken N.


From swartart at iafrica.com  Sat Feb 14 05:37:10 2004
From: swartart at iafrica.com (Ryno Swart)
Date: Sat, 14 Feb 2004 12:37:10 +0200
Subject: Magnificance.
In-Reply-To: <20040213001447.3686D9302EE@mail.runrev.com>
Message-ID: <BE5A7F2E-5ED9-11D8-88EE-003065D180EE@iafrica.com>

> Ken, You know I applaud your efforts already with working with the
> disabled on 'your little island'. I too find it to be the most
> rewarding thin that I do, aside from maybe my art work which I use to
> open everyones eyes to the beauty and magnificance around us.

Magnificance? Magnificness? Magnificity?

Hi Tom, where can I see your art work? And anybody on this else who is 
active in art, music, animation, scriptwriting, poetry, dance?

Ryno.
http://artistvision.org ...a work in progress...


From mpetrides at earthlink.net  Sat Feb 14 06:23:19 2004
From: mpetrides at earthlink.net (Marian Petrides)
Date: Sat, 14 Feb 2004 06:23:19 -0500
Subject: More questions about Dan's ebook
In-Reply-To: <Pine.GSO.4.33.0402132034440.4687-100000@titan.ecs.fullerton.edu>
References: <Pine.GSO.4.33.0402132034440.4687-100000@titan.ecs.fullerton.edu>
Message-ID: <30C46FBA-5EE0-11D8-9724-000A959D005E@earthlink.net>

Thanks, everyone.  A few more questions (sorry!)

1) Judy, were you able to buy just the electronic edition of volume 1 
at the $37 price or did you end up buying all 3 volumes at once?  I was 
looking for volume 1 electronic edition only since my development 
budget is strapped right now and the $97 would be a stretch.

2)  For those of you who bought the electronic edition and printed it 
on a laser printer, how did the graphics (photos/screenshots) look? Was 
everything readable the way it would be in a printed book?  The reason 
I ask is I bought Adam Engst's book on iPhoto which included access to 
the electronic (PDF) version prior to release. When I compared the 
printouts from the electronic edition with the actual book, I found it 
a lot harder to read the photos/screenshots in the printout made from 
the PDF perhaps because I still use a 300 DPI laser printer.

BTW, what I suggested to Jacque (and she says RunRev folks will 
consider) would be to have the books available the way Engst's was for 
people ordering the hardcopy, i.e.  you get the hardcopy once it is 
printed but in the meantime you can download the PDF to tide you over 
until your shipment arrives.  Hopefully, they will find a way to do 
this, since it really adds no cost whatsoever to them beyond giving the 
buyer a download link.

Marian


On Feb 13, 2004, at 11:35 PM, Judy Perry wrote:

> I bought it about a week ago.  I think I had within a 1-day 
> turnaround...
>
> But I can't find a Kinko's to print out and bind the d*mned thing!
>
> Judy
>
> On Fri, 13 Feb 2004, Stephen King wrote:
>
>> I can vouch for what Jacqueline says. I just bought Dans book a few 
>> days
>> ago.
>> Things are a little slower at the moment, but if you don't hear after 
>> a few
>> days, just give a polite reminder to the RunRev team. They will 
>> respond and
>> follow up.
>>
>> It does work.
>>
>> By the way - Dans book is pretty awesome!
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>


From klaus at major-k.de  Sat Feb 14 06:29:53 2004
From: klaus at major-k.de (Klaus Major)
Date: Sat, 14 Feb 2004 12:29:53 +0100
Subject: Sticky palettes
In-Reply-To: <BC53326B.4FA5%pixelbird@interisland.net>
References: <BC53326B.4FA5%pixelbird@interisland.net>
Message-ID: <1BE14A56-5EE1-11D8-B070-000A27B49A96@major-k.de>

Hi Ken

>> Subject: Re: Sticky palettes
>>> ...
> Ken N.

just a thought:
Did you check the "movestack" message?
Might be helpful in your case...

You could script this to "dock" your things back to the "mainwindow"
after the user moved it around his screen...


Regards

Klaus Major
klaus at major-k.de
www.major-k.de


From 3mcgrath at adelphia.net  Sat Feb 14 07:40:13 2004
From: 3mcgrath at adelphia.net (Thomas McGrath III)
Date: Sat, 14 Feb 2004 07:40:13 -0500
Subject: Sticky palettes
In-Reply-To: <BC532191.4FA1%pixelbird@interisland.net>
References: <BC532191.4FA1%pixelbird@interisland.net>
Message-ID: <EF1F62CB-5EEA-11D8-85F5-000A95DA60FA@adelphia.net>

I understand Ken,

In my stack (which I got the code from Scott) the reader can be dragged 
away from the main but if the main is moved then it follows it.
Maybe a send in time to check the position of the main window might 
help????

Oh Well

Good luck

Tom
On Feb 14, 2004, at 3:51 AM, Ken Norris wrote:

> I think the grab is fine for the use it has in the example, but in my
> situation, the palette is for navigation, opening and closing windows, 
> and
> searches. It's OK for it to travel docked into a window, but I also 
> need to
> drag it normally by its own titlebar and pull it free from the 
> mothership.

Thomas J. McGrath III
SCS
1000 Killarney Dr.
Pittsburgh, PA 15234
412-885-8541


From 3mcgrath at adelphia.net  Sat Feb 14 07:44:13 2004
From: 3mcgrath at adelphia.net (Thomas McGrath III)
Date: Sat, 14 Feb 2004 07:44:13 -0500
Subject: How to make a stack into a substack
In-Reply-To: <BC53FE91.26B09%doug@webcrossing.com>
References: <BC53FE91.26B09%doug@webcrossing.com>
Message-ID: <7E30A5F4-5EEB-11D8-85F5-000A95DA60FA@adelphia.net>

Ken

If I remember there is a choice in the DB that let's you do this (or 
not do this).

Tom

On Feb 14, 2004, at 2:34 AM, Doug Lerner wrote:

> I believe if you just open them all up you can then, in the Inspector, 
> just
> set the mainStack for each one.
>
> doug
>
> On 2/14/04 4:20 PM, "Ken Norris" <pixelbird at interisland.net> wrote:
>
>> Howdy,
>>
>> Somehow, when I Saved in the IDE, one of my substacks ended up as a
>> mainstack, i.e., a separate file in the same folder.
>>
>> How do I get it back into my mainstack as a substack, like it was 
>> before the
>> goof?
>>
>> TIA,
>> Ken N.
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> use-revolution mailing list
>> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>
>

Thomas J. McGrath III
SCS
1000 Killarney Dr.
Pittsburgh, PA 15234
412-885-8541


From 3mcgrath at adelphia.net  Sat Feb 14 08:16:04 2004
From: 3mcgrath at adelphia.net (Thomas McGrath III)
Date: Sat, 14 Feb 2004 08:16:04 -0500
Subject: sticky stacks
In-Reply-To: <BC53263D.4FA2%pixelbird@interisland.net>
References: <BC53263D.4FA2%pixelbird@interisland.net>
Message-ID: <F1063B14-5EEF-11D8-85F5-000A95DA60FA@adelphia.net>

Ken,

The stack I gave does work in Windows?!?!

But yes it is a little more work to do...


Tom

On Feb 14, 2004, at 4:11 AM, Ken Norris wrote:

> Back again,
>
>> Date: Fri, 13 Feb 2004 22:42:42 -0500
>> From: Thomas McGrath III <3mcgrath at adelphia.net>
>> Subject: Re: Sticky palettes
>>
>> I have this stack that does it.
> ----------
> P.S.
>
> I pretty much have to reject the other suggested alternative, which is 
> a
> smoke-and-mirrors workaround.  I can make it do exactly what I want 
> that
> way, but it involves creating false window graphics in a real Windows
> environment, probably about 8x as much work, and no cross-platform 
> unless I
> redid it yet _again_ on the Mac for OSX only.
>
> If it was a big, highly marketable, ready-for-primetime software 
> product, I
> wouldn't think twice about it (plus the fun of building it), but this 
> is for
> a volunteer Helping Hands local church ministry recordkeeping and
> coordinating thingie. It mostly needs to 'just work'. The palette 
> docking
> thing is a convenience I thought might help cut back on the time input 
> and
> screen real estate if the user has a bunch of other stuff going on 
> when a
> call comes in.
>
> Ken N.
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>
>

Thomas J. McGrath III
SCS
1000 Killarney Dr.
Pittsburgh, PA 15234
412-885-8541


From rcozens at pon.net  Sat Feb 14 08:08:23 2004
From: rcozens at pon.net (Rob Cozens)
Date: Sat, 14 Feb 2004 06:08:23 -0700
Subject: Building app distributions - some best practices?
In-Reply-To: <BC539E20.26A2B%doug@webcrossing.com>
References: <BC539E20.26A2B%doug@webcrossing.com>
Message-ID: <a05100300bc53cdfee5db@[66.52.165.217]>

>OS 9
>----
>I am not sure of the best way to bundle this for distribution, because the
>app needs to preserve its macbinary resource fork. What do people use for
>this so they can distribute it?

Hi Doug,

I use a MacBinary self-expanding Stuffit! archive.
-- 

Rob Cozens
CCW, Serendipity Software Company
http://www.oenolog.net/who.htm

"And I, which was two fooles, do so grow three;
Who are a little wise, the best fooles bee."

from "The Triple Foole" by John Donne (1572-1631)

From Revinfo1155 at aol.com  Sat Feb 14 10:30:57 2004
From: Revinfo1155 at aol.com (Revinfo1155 at aol.com)
Date: Sat, 14 Feb 2004 10:30:57 EST
Subject: sounds
Message-ID: <1ee.190bfb33.2d5f9931@aol.com>

What sounds are built into REV(such as beep) and where can we get other 
sounds to import into stacks?

Jack

From ambassador at fourthworld.com  Sat Feb 14 12:15:31 2004
From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin)
Date: Sat, 14 Feb 2004 09:15:31 -0800
Subject: Sticky palettes
In-Reply-To: <BC53326B.4FA5%pixelbird@interisland.net>
Message-ID: <BC5397B2.3D662%ambassador@fourthworld.com>

Ken Norris wrote:

> The "drawer" thing is pretty neat too, but
> probably the wrong metaphor for my purposes. I want to do the UI for
> convenience, but yet not show them unfamiliar stuff.

The tougher thing about drawers is that they're OS X-specific; there is no
corollary in other OSes.

But I found some hope in Apple's suggestions for their usage:
  
<http://developer.apple.com/documentation/UserExperience/Conceptual/OSXHIGui
delines/XHIGWindows/chapter_16_section_3.html#//apple_ref/doc/uid/20000961/B
ACEFIJH>

That's such a specific definition that the number of cases where a drawer is
truly needed are few.

More interesting to me was scrolling down to the section below drawers, on
what Apple calls a "source list".  That's very much like Win components in
many respects, and covers a significant subset of what used to be
recommended for drawers in earlier HIG releases.

I suppose one could make two UIs, one for Apple and one for everyone else.
For myself, I prefer to just split it down the middle and deliver one UI
using elements common to all platforms.  I'm grateful for platform-specific
appearances, but like Macromedia, Adobe, and other companies that maintain
an internal HIG for cross-platform apps, I try to avoid haing a user relearn
my UI when they switch platforms.

-- 
 Richard Gaskin 
 Fourth World Media Corporation
 ___________________________________________________________
 Ambassador at FourthWorld.com       http://www.FourthWorld.com


From alex at mindlube.com  Sat Feb 14 12:49:20 2004
From: alex at mindlube.com (Alex Rice)
Date: Sat, 14 Feb 2004 10:49:20 -0700
Subject: [OT] Re: Magnificance.
In-Reply-To: <BE5A7F2E-5ED9-11D8-88EE-003065D180EE@iafrica.com>
References: <BE5A7F2E-5ED9-11D8-88EE-003065D180EE@iafrica.com>
Message-ID: <1E4AD396-5F16-11D8-80C7-000393C4760A@mindlube.com>


On Feb 14, 2004, at 3:37 AM, Ryno Swart wrote:

> And anybody on this else who is active in art, music, animation,  
> scriptwriting, poetry, dance?

I am into art, music and animation. Learning to illustrate again, I  
used to be OK when I was younger.

My absolute favorite art program is Expression3 / Living Cels.
<http://www.creaturehouse.com/expression3.htm>

Here is a postcard I did last night with Expression3:
<http://www.pixelparity.org/index.php?board=3;action=display; 
threadid=1927>

--
Alex Rice | Mindlube Software | http://mindlube.com


From alex at mindlube.com  Sat Feb 14 12:52:57 2004
From: alex at mindlube.com (Alex Rice)
Date: Sat, 14 Feb 2004 10:52:57 -0700
Subject: Trying to buy Dan's book
In-Reply-To: <Pine.GSO.4.33.0402132034440.4687-100000@titan.ecs.fullerton.edu>
References: <Pine.GSO.4.33.0402132034440.4687-100000@titan.ecs.fullerton.edu>
Message-ID: <9F94C728-5F16-11D8-80C7-000393C4760A@mindlube.com>


On Feb 13, 2004, at 9:35 PM, Judy Perry wrote:

> I bought it about a week ago.  I think I had within a 1-day 
> turnaround...
>
> But I can't find a Kinko's to print out and bind the d*mned thing!

Post if you find a good solution. There has got to be a service online 
somewhere that does binding of color PDFs. I usually get terrible 
service at Kinko's, and if you use their DIY workstations, often they 
are crashed or virus infested, or wrong printer drivers installed, etc. 
And they are expensive.

--
Alex Rice | Mindlube Software | http://mindlube.com


From jperryl at ecs.fullerton.edu  Sat Feb 14 12:54:32 2004
From: jperryl at ecs.fullerton.edu (Judy Perry)
Date: Sat, 14 Feb 2004 09:54:32 -0800 (PST)
Subject: More questions about Dan's ebook
In-Reply-To: <30C46FBA-5EE0-11D8-9724-000A959D005E@earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.4.33.0402140952390.15517-100000@titan.ecs.fullerton.edu>

Yes, I didn't see the way to get just vol. 1 (although, now that I think
about it and am looking at it, the pdf file does indeed say
"RevBookVol1.pdfr" ... hmmm..., where are my other volumes?!)

$97.  Sorry that this doesn't help :(

Judy

On Sat, 14 Feb 2004, Marian Petrides wrote:

> Thanks, everyone.  A few more questions (sorry!)
>
> 1) Judy, were you able to buy just the electronic edition of volume 1
> at the $37 price or did you end up buying all 3 volumes at once?  I was
> looking for volume 1 electronic edition only since my development
> budget is strapped right now and the $97 would be a stretch.


From jperryl at ecs.fullerton.edu  Sat Feb 14 12:57:09 2004
From: jperryl at ecs.fullerton.edu (Judy Perry)
Date: Sat, 14 Feb 2004 09:57:09 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Trying to buy Dan's book
In-Reply-To: <9F94C728-5F16-11D8-80C7-000393C4760A@mindlube.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.4.33.0402140956010.15517-100000@titan.ecs.fullerton.edu>

No joke! It was going to cost me nearly $50 to get it printed and bound IF
only they'd had the most recent copy of Reader...

I'll let you  know if I find anything...

Judy

On Sat, 14 Feb 2004, Alex Rice wrote:

> > But I can't find a Kinko's to print out and bind the d*mned thing!
>
> Post if you find a good solution. There has got to be a service online
> somewhere that does binding of color PDFs. I usually get terrible
> service at Kinko's, and if you use their DIY workstations, often they
> are crashed or virus infested, or wrong printer drivers installed, etc.
> And they are expensive.


From jperryl at ecs.fullerton.edu  Sat Feb 14 12:58:42 2004
From: jperryl at ecs.fullerton.edu (Judy Perry)
Date: Sat, 14 Feb 2004 09:58:42 -0800 (PST)
Subject: sounds
In-Reply-To: <1ee.190bfb33.2d5f9931@aol.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.4.33.0402140957310.15517-100000@titan.ecs.fullerton.edu>

If you use the Shakobox workaround, you  have access to the boatload of QT
musical instruments.

Apple's also got some free sound downloads for use with iMovie.

Judy

On Sat, 14 Feb 2004 Revinfo1155 at aol.com wrote:

> What sounds are built into REV(such as beep) and where can we get other
> sounds to import into stacks?


From chrism at lumin.us  Sat Feb 14 12:58:49 2004
From: chrism at lumin.us (Christopher Mitchell)
Date: Sat, 14 Feb 2004 11:58:49 -0600
Subject: Latitude and longitude and HIG
In-Reply-To: <p06020407bc538a0d7f6f@[192.168.1.100]>
References: <p06020407bc538a0d7f6f@[192.168.1.100]>
Message-ID: <7139CE1F-5F17-11D8-A3C3-000393B64EDC@lumin.us>

You might try "XMenu" as an in-bar applications/document menu plugin. 
it works well.

http://www.devon-technologies.com/download.php

Yours,
Chris

On Feb 14, 2004, at 2:24 AM, Stephen Quinn Barncard wrote:

>>
>>
>> And *why* did Apple drop something as useful as the Map control panel?
>>
>> --
>> -Mark
>
>
> . I hate the way the windows work, and the loss of the Applications 
> menu...
>
> I'm a hard core Apple guy and the dark side is worse to me but there 
> is no reason for that except arrogance and an attempt to out do MS 
> with useless flash.


From dsc at swcp.com  Sat Feb 14 12:59:24 2004
From: dsc at swcp.com (Dar Scott)
Date: Sat, 14 Feb 2004 10:59:24 -0700
Subject: Qt vs Revolution
Message-ID: <85C5AFDD-5F17-11D8-84BF-000A9567A3E6@swcp.com>

I suggested to a customer that a new family of programs in their 
product be implemented in Revolution.  The customer did (at some level) 
consider Revolution, but decided to go with Qt.

How would folks here compare these?

Dar Scott


From alex at mindlube.com  Sat Feb 14 13:02:38 2004
From: alex at mindlube.com (Alex Rice)
Date: Sat, 14 Feb 2004 11:02:38 -0700
Subject: Qt vs Revolution
In-Reply-To: <85C5AFDD-5F17-11D8-84BF-000A9567A3E6@swcp.com>
References: <85C5AFDD-5F17-11D8-84BF-000A9567A3E6@swcp.com>
Message-ID: <F9814E1F-5F17-11D8-80C7-000393C4760A@mindlube.com>


On Feb 14, 2004, at 10:59 AM, Dar Scott wrote:

> I suggested to a customer that a new family of programs in their 
> product be implemented in Revolution.  The customer did (at some 
> level) consider Revolution, but decided to go with Qt.
>
> How would folks here compare these?

QT = Quicktime or the Trolltech SDK?

--
Alex Rice | Mindlube Software | http://mindlube.com


From ambassador at fourthworld.com  Sat Feb 14 13:02:08 2004
From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin)
Date: Sat, 14 Feb 2004 10:02:08 -0800
Subject: Set browser "helper" app
In-Reply-To: <BC52D527.3D5F4%ambassador@fourthworld.com>
Message-ID: <BC53A29F.3D66B%ambassador@fourthworld.com>

Richard Gaskin wrote:

> Devin Asay wrote:
> 
>> Does anyone know how to set the most commonly-used browsers in OS X to
>> automatically launch a rev stack (with Rev or some compiled Rev
>> launcher app) when it is clicked on in a web page? I want to be able to
>> have a user click on a stack link in my web page and have it launch,
>> instead of merely download or even try to show the contents in the web
>> page. Like happens when you click on a pdf link.
> 
> You can do this by adding the appropriate MIME type in the prefs for any
> browser -- except Apple's Safari. :(
> 
> I use Mozilla and I just launched stack files from my Web site.  :(
> 
> Th MIME types are there somewhere, only it seems Apple didn't provide an
> interface for editing them. There must be a way to hack this very basic
> functionality -- anyone know how?  :\

Follow up to this -

There are two ways to solve this challenge of browser/helper interaction:
adding a MIME type for .rev, and adding a custom helper app protocol.


Launching Stack Files
---------------------
Adding a MIME type seems to involve:

- On the server, adding the type to your server's .htaccess file.
- On the client:
    Win: Adding a couple registry entries (can be done with Rev)
    Mac: Adding a MIME type in your app's plist

I haven't yet had time to follow through on testing these, but I can't think
of any other required steps -- anyone know if I've missed one? I've
submitted a request to add "application/x-revolution rev" to my server's
.htaccess, so I can test once I finish up some client work.


Custom Protocol
---------------
More interesting is a custom protocol, so you can put links like this in
your pages:

  runrev://MyHandlerName

...and (on Mac) your app will get a GURLGURL Apple event with the full text
of the link as the data.  You could put any data you want in there, from a
file path to a Transcript command.  Accordingly, you'll want to avoid using
something as open as "do" for that since it would be a powerful security
exposure.  But with modest care it could be quite safe.

I'm not sure how the inter-app communication happens on Win; presumably with
DDE, requiring an external.  I don't yet know the details on the IAC for
Linux, but I presume it uses a socket, no?

The trick is finding a way to automate the adding of a new protocol helper.
It seems the API for Mac, Win, and Linux requires lower-level calls than can
be done from script (for Mac see the Internet Config API reference).  If
anyone finds a way to script those or writes an external I'd love to play
with it more when things slow down here.

In the meantime you can play around with this by setting it manually, at
least on a Mac:

Internet Explorer/Classic:
<http://campusgw.library.cornell.edu/newhelp/technical/set_up/browsers/msie3
M.html>

Any browser in OS X: <http://www.monkeyfood.com/software/MoreInternet/>


The Third Way
-------------
There's a third option that is easiest of all:  since your helper app is
already installed and the stack files will be run within it, why not just
launch them from there without requiring a browser at all, as RevNet does?

I'll admit there's a certain satisfying coolness in saying "My app has its
own protocol", but in terms of real-world needs only a relatively small
subset of workflows truly requires having the browser play a role.  In most
applications I can think of, since your app will be the central thing the
user is interacting with the desire to include the browser into the mix may
be more complicating than helpful.

If the goal is to launch stacks, there's little in the browser experience
that can't be done be done even more gracefully right in your own software.
Best of all, it's the simplest and most robust option as well, and will work
great on all supported platforms right out of the box, no fuss no muss.

-- 
 Richard Gaskin 
 Fourth World Media Corporation
 ___________________________________________________________
 Ambassador at FourthWorld.com       http://www.FourthWorld.com


From alex at mindlube.com  Sat Feb 14 13:05:07 2004
From: alex at mindlube.com (Alex Rice)
Date: Sat, 14 Feb 2004 11:05:07 -0700
Subject: Latitude and longitude and HIG
In-Reply-To: <p06020407bc538a0d7f6f@[192.168.1.100]>
References: <p06020407bc538a0d7f6f@[192.168.1.100]>
Message-ID: <528261C9-5F18-11D8-80C7-000393C4760A@mindlube.com>


On Feb 14, 2004, at 1:24 AM, Stephen Quinn Barncard wrote:

>  I hate the way the windows work, and the loss of the Applications 
> menu...

Try LaunchBar- you'll never wish for a menu again
<http://www.obdev.at/products/launchbar/index.html>

--
Alex Rice | Mindlube Software | http://mindlube.com


From mpetrides at earthlink.net  Sat Feb 14 13:06:18 2004
From: mpetrides at earthlink.net (Marian Petrides)
Date: Sat, 14 Feb 2004 13:06:18 -0500
Subject: Trying to buy Dan's bookuse-revolution@lists.runrev.com
In-Reply-To: <Pine.GSO.4.33.0402140956010.15517-100000@titan.ecs.fullerton.edu>
References: <Pine.GSO.4.33.0402140956010.15517-100000@titan.ecs.fullerton.edu>
Message-ID: <7D03F237-5F18-11D8-99B7-000A959D005E@earthlink.net>

Maybe I'm missing something, but can't you just print it on your laser 
printer (or a laser printer at work) and then take it to Kinko's for 
binding?  I've had them do spiral binding for me in the past and it 
cost under $5, probably more like $2-3.

Are there color photos in the PDF that require printing on a color 
printer?  Is the hard copy book in color or B&W.  Inquiring minds want 
to know ;-)

M


On Feb 14, 2004, at 12:57 PM, Judy Perry wrote:

> No joke! It was going to cost me nearly $50 to get it printed and 
> bound IF
> only they'd had the most recent copy of Reader...
>
> I'll let you  know if I find anything...
>
> Judy
>
> On Sat, 14 Feb 2004, Alex Rice wrote:
>
>>> But I can't find a Kinko's to print out and bind the d*mned thing!
>>
>> Post if you find a good solution. There has got to be a service online
>> somewhere that does binding of color PDFs. I usually get terrible
>> service at Kinko's, and if you use their DIY workstations, often they
>> are crashed or virus infested, or wrong printer drivers installed, 
>> etc.
>> And they are expensive.
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>


From pixelbird at interisland.net  Sat Feb 14 13:10:10 2004
From: pixelbird at interisland.net (Ken Norris)
Date: Sat, 14 Feb 2004 10:10:10 -0800
Subject: sounds
In-Reply-To: <20040214170010.91FFF930144@mail.runrev.com>
Message-ID: <BC53A481.4FB4%pixelbird@interisland.net>

Hi Jack,

> Date: Sat, 14 Feb 2004 10:30:57 EST
> From: Revinfo1155 at aol.com
> Subject: sounds
> 
> What sounds are built into REV(such as beep) and where can we get other
> sounds to import into stacks?
----------
Generally, I don't think sounds aren't "built in" because of crossplatform
handling rules. What you want to do is import them from a sound file
collection such as you can D/L from sites like this:

<http://www.a1freesoundeffects.com/>

HTH,
Ken N.


From dsc at swcp.com  Sat Feb 14 13:15:54 2004
From: dsc at swcp.com (Dar Scott)
Date: Sat, 14 Feb 2004 11:15:54 -0700
Subject: sounds
In-Reply-To: <1ee.190bfb33.2d5f9931@aol.com>
Message-ID: <D422D5E4-5F19-11D8-84BF-000A9567A3E6@swcp.com>


On Saturday, February 14, 2004, at 08:30 AM, Revinfo1155 at aol.com wrote:

> What sounds are built into REV(such as beep) and where can we get other
> sounds to import into stacks?

The beep command seems to use the current system beep sound.  The 
behavior is platform dependent.  Well, it was last I checked.

My kids download sounds from a few sound sites.  Many sounds are said 
to be free.  I have no idea how many of those are ripped off.  I don't 
know which sound formats have copyright fields, though that shouldn't 
be hard to check.  (A plugin to check copyrights on sounds and images 
would be handy.)  There are places where you can buy sounds.

It would be nice if Revolution had a palette of good quality sounds 
with, uh, clear ownership or whatever it is called.  Something that 
developers have permission to use in products.  Maybe that could be 
added to all the things we dream about for Revolution.

Dar Scott



From dsc at swcp.com  Sat Feb 14 13:16:42 2004
From: dsc at swcp.com (Dar Scott)
Date: Sat, 14 Feb 2004 11:16:42 -0700
Subject: Qt vs Revolution
In-Reply-To: <F9814E1F-5F17-11D8-80C7-000393C4760A@mindlube.com>
Message-ID: <F0B6BDC0-5F19-11D8-84BF-000A9567A3E6@swcp.com>


On Saturday, February 14, 2004, at 11:02 AM, Alex Rice wrote:

>
> QT = Quicktime or the Trolltech SDK?

Sorry.  TrollTech SDK.

Dar Scott


From dsc at swcp.com  Sat Feb 14 13:43:39 2004
From: dsc at swcp.com (Dar Scott)
Date: Sat, 14 Feb 2004 11:43:39 -0700
Subject: sounds
In-Reply-To: <BC53A481.4FB4%pixelbird@interisland.net>
Message-ID: <B493602E-5F1D-11D8-84BF-000A9567A3E6@swcp.com>


On Saturday, February 14, 2004, at 11:10 AM, Ken Norris wrote:

> What you want to do is import them from a sound file
> collection such as you can D/L from sites like this:
>
> <http://www.a1freesoundeffects.com/>

This site has a CD with lots of sounds that comes with a commercial 
license for only 30 bucks.

Dar Scott


From jacque at hyperactivesw.com  Sat Feb 14 13:44:56 2004
From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay)
Date: Sat, 14 Feb 2004 12:44:56 -0600
Subject: More questions about Dan's ebook
In-Reply-To: <Pine.GSO.4.33.0402140952390.15517-100000@titan.ecs.fullerton.edu>
References: <Pine.GSO.4.33.0402140952390.15517-100000@titan.ecs.fullerton.edu>
Message-ID: <402E6CA8.1040908@hyperactivesw.com>

On 2/14/04 11:54 AM, Judy Perry wrote:

> Yes, I didn't see the way to get just vol. 1 (although, now that I think
> about it and am looking at it, the pdf file does indeed say
> "RevBookVol1.pdfr" ... hmmm..., where are my other volumes?!)

They aren't written yet. ;) Dan's working on volume 2 right now. As they 
are produced, those who purchased the electronic package can download 
the other volumes as they come out.

The purchasing options were decided by RR and Dan Shafer. They decided 
that electronic editions were to be bought as a whole package, so that's 
all there is to buy.

-- 
Jacqueline Landman Gay         |     jacque at hyperactivesw.com
HyperActive Software           |     http://www.hyperactivesw.com

From kray at sonsothunder.com  Sat Feb 14 13:52:08 2004
From: kray at sonsothunder.com (Ken Ray)
Date: Sat, 14 Feb 2004 12:52:08 -0600
Subject: How to make a stack into a substack
In-Reply-To: <BC530C42.4F9F%pixelbird@interisland.net>
Message-ID: <00c101c3f32b$a96a38c0$6601a8c0@LightningFlash>

If you know the name of the mainstack that it should be a substack of,
you can open the substack and type this in the message box:

  set the mainstack of this stack to <mainStackName>

Ken Ray
Sons of Thunder Software
Email: kray at sonsothunder.com
Web Site: http://www.sonsothunder.com/ 

> -----Original Message-----
> From: use-revolution-bounces at lists.runrev.com 
> [mailto:use-revolution-bounces at lists.runrev.com] On Behalf Of 
> Ken Norris
> Sent: Saturday, February 14, 2004 1:21 AM
> To: use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> Subject: How to make a stack into a substack
> 
> 
> Howdy,
> 
> Somehow, when I Saved in the IDE, one of my substacks ended 
> up as a mainstack, i.e., a separate file in the same folder.
> 
> How do I get it back into my mainstack as a substack, like it 
> was before the goof?
> 
> TIA,
> Ken N.
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com 
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-> revolution
> 



From revdan at danshafer.com  Sat Feb 14 14:05:44 2004
From: revdan at danshafer.com (Dan Shafer)
Date: Sat, 14 Feb 2004 11:05:44 -0800
Subject: Dan's Book Answers (was Re: More questions about Dan's ebook)
In-Reply-To: <402E6CA8.1040908@hyperactivesw.com>
References: <Pine.GSO.4.33.0402140952390.15517-100000@titan.ecs.fullerton.edu>
	<402E6CA8.1040908@hyperactivesw.com>
Message-ID: <CA629099-5F20-11D8-A0A9-0030656FB5D4@danshafer.com>

i've been on the road the past couple of days so I'm catching up here.

Here is the latest Poop from Group, as we used to say:

1. eBook is avaiallble ONLY by joining RevolutionPros.com. When you 
join that community (prices range from $97/yr. to $197/yr.), you get 
ALL THREE volumes of eBooks (but see below for a recent tweak), 
participation in the community, a newsletter, and regularly posted 
tips, hints, and tutorials on various topics. If you join at the $197 
level, you get each chapter of the subsequent eBook volumes prior to 
their publication, as they are released, for free.  Of course you still 
get the eBook volumes as they are published.

2. Hard copy is available directly from Revolution Press. My 
understanding is that they are immediately available and shipping.

3. As a special promo for MacWorld only, I allowed RunRev to sell 
copies of the first volume in eBook form for $37. That offer has now 
expired.

4. During MacWorld, in discussions with Ro Nagey, Kevin Miller, 
heather, and others, we decided to shift the publishing tactic 
slightly. This is in addition to the current plan, not a replacement. 
I'm going to release each chapter of the remaining volumes of the eBook 
in electronic form first to the Leader-level members of the 
RevolutionPros.com community, and then after further review and 
production, to the entire Revolution world at a cost resembling $5 per 
chapter. You can buy individual chapters on topics that interest you. 
When we have accumulated enough chapters, we'll put them together into 
an eBook and take that manuscript to print for hard-copy production. I 
anticipate releasing about a chapter a week. The first one, on CGI, 
will be released to the Leader group this week. Leader-level members 
will also be given the chance to influence the order in which I produce 
these additional chapters.

It's not clear yet whether RunRev can accommodate all the chapter-level 
activity in terms of processing, so I may offer the individual chapters 
through my site and handle the eCommerce myself. That's being worked 
out right now.

I appreciate all the great comments and feedback on my Vol. 1. Stay 
tuned for the rest of the story


On Feb 14, 2004, at 10:44 AM, J. Landman Gay wrote:

> On 2/14/04 11:54 AM, Judy Perry wrote:
>
>> Yes, I didn't see the way to get just vol. 1 (although, now that I 
>> think
>> about it and am looking at it, the pdf file does indeed say
>> "RevBookVol1.pdfr" ... hmmm..., where are my other volumes?!)
>
> They aren't written yet. ;) Dan's working on volume 2 right now. As 
> they are produced, those who purchased the electronic package can 
> download the other volumes as they come out.
>
> The purchasing options were decided by RR and Dan Shafer. They decided 
> that electronic editions were to be bought as a whole package, so 
> that's all there is to buy.
>
> -- 
> Jacqueline Landman Gay         |     jacque at hyperactivesw.com
> HyperActive Software           |     http://www.hyperactivesw.com
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>
>
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Dan Shafer, Revolutionary
Author of  "Revolution: Software at the Speed of Thought"
http://www.revolutionpros.com for more info
Available at Runtime Revolution Store (http://www.runrev.com/RevPress)


From revdan at danshafer.com  Sat Feb 14 14:06:53 2004
From: revdan at danshafer.com (Dan Shafer)
Date: Sat, 14 Feb 2004 11:06:53 -0800
Subject: Trying to buy Dan's book
In-Reply-To: <Pine.GSO.4.33.0402140956010.15517-100000@titan.ecs.fullerton.edu>
References: <Pine.GSO.4.33.0402140956010.15517-100000@titan.ecs.fullerton.edu>
Message-ID: <F33709F2-5F20-11D8-A0A9-0030656FB5D4@danshafer.com>


On Feb 14, 2004, at 9:57 AM, Judy Perry wrote:

> No joke! It was going to cost me nearly $50 to get it printed and 
> bound IF
> only they'd had the most recent copy of Reader...
>
That's one of the problems with eBooks, of course. FWIW, you can print 
the book in grayscale and it works just fine.

The hard copy costs $47 plus shipping, so printing the eBook is still 
cheaper but not by a lot.



~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Dan Shafer, Revolutionary
Author of  "Revolution: Software at the Speed of Thought"
http://www.revolutionpros.com for more info
Available at Runtime Revolution Store (http://www.runrev.com/RevPress)


From kray at sonsothunder.com  Sat Feb 14 14:10:01 2004
From: kray at sonsothunder.com (Ken Ray)
Date: Sat, 14 Feb 2004 13:10:01 -0600
Subject: Sticky palettes
In-Reply-To: <BC52B720.4F92%pixelbird@interisland.net>
Message-ID: <00c601c3f32e$2875f490$6601a8c0@LightningFlash>

> In SC there is a cool function called dragWindow wherein you 
> can get one window (in this case a palette window) to stick 
> to another window, i.e., when you drag the one, the other 
> sticks to it in the designated position.

Ken, "dragWindow" in SC is just a message sent ot the current window
when the window has been dragged using the titleBar. In Rev, this same
message is called "moveStack".

Note that in SC you get this message when you have finished dragging; in
Rev, you get the same message when you have finished dragging on the
Mac, but you get the message *continually* while you are dragging in
Windows. In either case, you get two parameters that come in as part of
the moveStack message that correspond to the top-left corner of the
stack window at its new location.

Just FYI,

Ken Ray
Sons of Thunder Software
Email: kray at sonsothunder.com
Web Site: http://www.sonsothunder.com/ 



From kray at sonsothunder.com  Sat Feb 14 14:13:24 2004
From: kray at sonsothunder.com (Ken Ray)
Date: Sat, 14 Feb 2004 13:13:24 -0600
Subject: Sticky palettes
In-Reply-To: <BC52E539.4F9B%pixelbird@interisland.net>
Message-ID: <00ca01c3f32e$a2177f80$6601a8c0@LightningFlash>

> Let me change the question: Can I poll a window's location as 
> I drag it by its titlebar?

You can in Windows by trapping the moveStack message. Unfortunately you
only get the window's location on the Mac after you release the mouse.

Ken Ray
Sons of Thunder Software
Email: kray at sonsothunder.com
Web Site: http://www.sonsothunder.com/ 



From kray at sonsothunder.com  Sat Feb 14 14:15:33 2004
From: kray at sonsothunder.com (Ken Ray)
Date: Sat, 14 Feb 2004 13:15:33 -0600
Subject: Dan's Book Answers (was Re: More questions about Dan's ebook)
In-Reply-To: <CA629099-5F20-11D8-A0A9-0030656FB5D4@danshafer.com>
Message-ID: <00cb01c3f32e$ec1cee30$6601a8c0@LightningFlash>

> 3. As a special promo for MacWorld only, I allowed RunRev to sell 
> copies of the first volume in eBook form for $37. That offer has now 
> expired.

Speaking of that, someone ought to change RunRev's main page that still
talks about MacWorld and the eBook promo. It's over a month old now and
could lead people to wrong conclusions about the eBook cost, etc.

Ken Ray
Sons of Thunder Software
Email: kray at sonsothunder.com
Web Site: http://www.sonsothunder.com/ 



From stephenREVOLUTION at barncard.com  Sat Feb 14 14:17:43 2004
From: stephenREVOLUTION at barncard.com (Stephen Quinn Barncard)
Date: Sat, 14 Feb 2004 11:17:43 -0800
Subject: Trying to buy Dan's book
Message-ID: <p0602040fbc5424b9bfbf@[192.168.1.100]>

Perhaps Kinko's will get better - FEDEX just bought the company.

>  Post if you find a good solution. There has got to be a service 
>online somewhere that does binding of color PDFs. I usually get 
>terrible service at Kinko's, and if you use their DIY workstations, 
>often they are crashed or virus infested, or wrong printer drivers 
>installed, etc. And they are expensive.
>
>--
>Alex Rice | Mindlube Software | http://mindlube.com

From r.hartley at bio.gla.ac.uk  Sat Feb 14 14:47:13 2004
From: r.hartley at bio.gla.ac.uk (Bob Hartley)
Date: Sat, 14 Feb 2004 19:47:13 +0000
Subject: palm pdb file syncing
Message-ID: <5.2.1.1.0.20040214194455.029c9820@mail.armbase.com>

Hi all

I thought I read that rev can read and write to a pdb file.

Is this correct and where can I get more info?

Cheers
bob


From mpetrides at earthlink.net  Sat Feb 14 14:55:22 2004
From: mpetrides at earthlink.net (Marian Petrides)
Date: Sat, 14 Feb 2004 14:55:22 -0500
Subject: Dan's Book Answers (was Re: More questions about Dan's ebook)
In-Reply-To: <00cb01c3f32e$ec1cee30$6601a8c0@LightningFlash>
References: <00cb01c3f32e$ec1cee30$6601a8c0@LightningFlash>
Message-ID: <B91DD7DE-5F27-11D8-99B7-000A959D005E@earthlink.net>

Which it did--that's where my confusion came from.  I kept looking for 
the $37 individual e-book.

Thanks for the clarification, Dan.  Still a tough choice (buy hardcopy 
and wait for delivery vs buy all three as e-books but then have to 
print them all myself)  but a worthwhile one--from what I've seen of 
the samples and from all the positive feedback on this list.  Thanks 
also for taking the time to write this puppy.

Marian


On Feb 14, 2004, at 2:15 PM, Ken Ray wrote:

>> 3. As a special promo for MacWorld only, I allowed RunRev to sell
>> copies of the first volume in eBook form for $37. That offer has now
>> expired.
>
> Speaking of that, someone ought to change RunRev's main page that still
> talks about MacWorld and the eBook promo. It's over a month old now and
> could lead people to wrong conclusions about the eBook cost, etc.
>
> Ken Ray
> Sons of Thunder Software
> Email: kray at sonsothunder.com
> Web Site: http://www.sonsothunder.com/
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>


From dsc at swcp.com  Sat Feb 14 14:57:12 2004
From: dsc at swcp.com (Dar Scott)
Date: Sat, 14 Feb 2004 12:57:12 -0700
Subject: palm pdb file syncing
In-Reply-To: <5.2.1.1.0.20040214194455.029c9820@mail.armbase.com>
Message-ID: <FAF7D6AD-5F27-11D8-84BF-000A9567A3E6@swcp.com>


On Saturday, February 14, 2004, at 12:47 PM, Bob Hartley wrote:

> I thought I read that rev can read and write to a pdb file.

Chemistry files?  Palm files?

Dar Scott


From dsc at swcp.com  Sat Feb 14 15:00:22 2004
From: dsc at swcp.com (Dar Scott)
Date: Sat, 14 Feb 2004 13:00:22 -0700
Subject: palm pdb file syncing
In-Reply-To: <FAF7D6AD-5F27-11D8-84BF-000A9567A3E6@swcp.com>
Message-ID: <6C01D34A-5F28-11D8-84BF-000A9567A3E6@swcp.com>


On Saturday, February 14, 2004, at 12:57 PM, Dar Scott wrote:

>> I thought I read that rev can read and write to a pdb file.
>
> Chemistry files?  Palm files?

I'm an idiot.  The answer is in the subject.  And I'm just adding more 
noise...

Dar Scott


From Roger.E.Eller at sealedair.com  Sat Feb 14 15:04:47 2004
From: Roger.E.Eller at sealedair.com (Roger.E.Eller at sealedair.com)
Date: Sat, 14 Feb 2004 15:04:47 -0500
Subject: palm pdb file syncing
Message-ID: <OFF327EEC9.AEC2655C-ON85256E3A.006D9DDD@sealedair.com>

Bob,

"Palm Database Viewer" was written by Lars Lewejohann. I don't know much 
about it because it was v.0.01beta when I it was announced on this list (I 
still have it). The about box has links to http://www.phwnotyping.com  and 
 http://www.tiny-red-book.com  I hope this helps.

Roger Eller
roger.e.eller at sealedair.com



On 02/14/2004 at 02:47 PM Bob Hartley <r.hartley at bio.gla.ac.uk> wrote:

> Hi all
> 
> I thought I read that rev can read and write to a pdb file.
> 
> Is this correct and where can I get more info?
> 
> Cheers
> bob

From Roger.E.Eller at sealedair.com  Sat Feb 14 15:08:01 2004
From: Roger.E.Eller at sealedair.com (Roger.E.Eller at sealedair.com)
Date: Sat, 14 Feb 2004 15:08:01 -0500
Subject: palm pdb file syncing
Message-ID: <OFFC9D1215.BC225F70-ON85256E3A.006E7DB1@sealedair.com>

Oops!  I mis-typed that first link. It should have been 
http://www.phenotyping.com

~Roger



From alex at mindlube.com  Sat Feb 14 15:22:55 2004
From: alex at mindlube.com (Alex Rice)
Date: Sat, 14 Feb 2004 13:22:55 -0700
Subject: Qt vs Revolution
In-Reply-To: <85C5AFDD-5F17-11D8-84BF-000A9567A3E6@swcp.com>
References: <85C5AFDD-5F17-11D8-84BF-000A9567A3E6@swcp.com>
Message-ID: <924EF42B-5F2B-11D8-90F0-000393C4760A@mindlube.com>


On Feb 14, 2004, at 10:59 AM, Dar Scott wrote:

> I suggested to a customer that a new family of programs in their 
> product be implemented in Revolution.  The customer did (at some 
> level) consider Revolution, but decided to go with Qt.
>
> How would folks here compare these?

I've never programmed in QT (Trolltech SDK). So you probably know as 
much as I do :-)

QT is a C++ application framework
It's Windows/Linux/Mac OS X (No Mac Classic I think)
It uses emulated widgets (maybe native look and feel, maybe no themes)

So using QT would therefore take lots longer to develop with, and would 
look less like a native app than a runrev one.

However QT surely has a more advanced set of GUI controls, including I 
am guessing spreadsheet and word processing controls.

--
Alex Rice | Mindlube Software | http://mindlube.com


From chrism at lumin.us  Sat Feb 14 15:37:31 2004
From: chrism at lumin.us (Christopher Mitchell)
Date: Sat, 14 Feb 2004 14:37:31 -0600
Subject: Qt vs Revolution
In-Reply-To: <924EF42B-5F2B-11D8-90F0-000393C4760A@mindlube.com>
References: <85C5AFDD-5F17-11D8-84BF-000A9567A3E6@swcp.com>
	<924EF42B-5F2B-11D8-90F0-000393C4760A@mindlube.com>
Message-ID: <9CF32AFC-5F2D-11D8-A777-000393B64EDC@lumin.us>

Also, at least on my powerbook, apps compiled with Qt have a giveaway 
"buzz" or hum when i move a window or panel.  See 
http://psi.affinix.com/ and see if it does it for you.

Also, as mentioned, this demonstrates how unMaclike the interface can 
be... It's pretty lame, and the pop up windows are all over the place.  
Later versions have been getting better but it's really kind of 
obnoxious so I use Fire instead for jabber.

Yours,
Chris
On Feb 14, 2004, at 2:22 PM, Alex Rice wrote:

>
> On Feb 14, 2004, at 10:59 AM, Dar Scott wrote:
>
>> I suggested to a customer that a new family of programs in their 
>> product be implemented in Revolution.  The customer did (at some 
>> level) consider Revolution, but decided to go with Qt.
>>
>> How would folks here compare these?
>
> I've never programmed in QT (Trolltech SDK). So you probably know as 
> much as I do :-)
>
> QT is a C++ application framework
> It's Windows/Linux/Mac OS X (No Mac Classic I think)
> It uses emulated widgets (maybe native look and feel, maybe no themes)
>
> So using QT would therefore take lots longer to develop with, and 
> would look less like a native app than a runrev one.
>
> However QT surely has a more advanced set of GUI controls, including I 
> am guessing spreadsheet and word processing controls.
>
> --
> Alex Rice | Mindlube Software | http://mindlube.com
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>


From mpetrides at earthlink.net  Sat Feb 14 15:40:18 2004
From: mpetrides at earthlink.net (Marian Petrides)
Date: Sat, 14 Feb 2004 15:40:18 -0500
Subject: Dan's Book Answers (was Re: More questions about Dan's ebook)
In-Reply-To: <CA629099-5F20-11D8-A0A9-0030656FB5D4@danshafer.com>
References: <Pine.GSO.4.33.0402140952390.15517-100000@titan.ecs.fullerton.edu>
	<402E6CA8.1040908@hyperactivesw.com>
	<CA629099-5F20-11D8-A0A9-0030656FB5D4@danshafer.com>
Message-ID: <007F6E8C-5F2E-11D8-99B7-000A959D005E@earthlink.net>

FWIW, thanks to all the feedback and clarifications posted here, I 
finally decided to spring for the subscription--I just HAVE to get my 
copy as soon as possible!  Now all that remains is waiting for my 
unlock code.  Thanks, everyone!

I'm sure I will be printing the PDF on my laser printer and then using 
a spiral binding comb to bind it.  If people are interested, I'd be 
glad to post some feedback on how that worked (number of pages, how 
graphics look in grayscale) for those still seeking a less expensive 
alternative than Kinko's.

Marian


From mpetrides at earthlink.net  Sat Feb 14 16:21:19 2004
From: mpetrides at earthlink.net (Marian Petrides)
Date: Sat, 14 Feb 2004 16:21:19 -0500
Subject: Text to speech nonfunctional in standalone
In-Reply-To: <F33709F2-5F20-11D8-A0A9-0030656FB5D4@danshafer.com>
References: <Pine.GSO.4.33.0402140956010.15517-100000@titan.ecs.fullerton.edu>
	<F33709F2-5F20-11D8-A0A9-0030656FB5D4@danshafer.com>
Message-ID: <BAF87685-5F33-11D8-99B7-000A959D005E@earthlink.net>

I just put together a very simple demonstration of the RevSpeak command 
which consists of a card with 2 items on it:

A field named "TextToSpeak" into which one enters text  and a button 
containing the following simple script.

On mouseUp
   Put field "TextToSpeak" into whatText
   RevSpeak whatText
end mouseUp

This works just fine (speaks the text entered into the field whenever 
button is pressed) in the IDE running in Mac OS X 10.3.  However, when 
I make the stack into a standalone for OS X, pressing the button yields 
nothing but silence.

Anybody have any thoughts on why this works in IDE but not in 
standalone???

Thanks

Marian


From mpetrides at earthlink.net  Sat Feb 14 16:39:54 2004
From: mpetrides at earthlink.net (Marian Petrides)
Date: Sat, 14 Feb 2004 16:39:54 -0500
Subject: Text to speech nonfunctional in standalone
In-Reply-To: <BAF87685-5F33-11D8-99B7-000A959D005E@earthlink.net>
References: <Pine.GSO.4.33.0402140956010.15517-100000@titan.ecs.fullerton.edu>
	<F33709F2-5F20-11D8-A0A9-0030656FB5D4@danshafer.com>
	<BAF87685-5F33-11D8-99B7-000A959D005E@earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <53DD7018-5F36-11D8-99B7-000A959D005E@earthlink.net>

Addendum to previous

If I add a second field to accept text from the following command 
(placed in the button's mouseUp handler in addition to the revSpeak 
command):   put whatText into field "debug"

Entire button script follows:

On mouseUp
   Put field "TextToSpeak" into whatText
   RevSpeak whatText
   put whatText into field "Debug"
end mouseUp


In the IDE:   the text entered into the first field gets spoken and 
appears properly in the second field ("debug")
In the standalone: No speech, no text placed into field "debug"

What gives?  Evidently there is some difference between the IDE and the 
standalone that prevents the contents of the first field from being 
properly captured and presented to the speech routine but also prevents 
it from being passed to the second field.  But I can't figure out 
why??????



Marian

	
On Feb 14, 2004, at 4:21 PM, Marian Petrides wrote:

> I just put together a very simple demonstration of the RevSpeak 
> command which consists of a card with 2 items on it:
>
> A field named "TextToSpeak" into which one enters text  and a button 
> containing the following simple script.
>
> On mouseUp
>   Put field "TextToSpeak" into whatText
>   RevSpeak whatText
> end mouseUp
>
> This works just fine (speaks the text entered into the field whenever 
> button is pressed) in the IDE running in Mac OS X 10.3.  However, when 
> I make the stack into a standalone for OS X, pressing the button 
> yields nothing but silence.
>
> Anybody have any thoughts on why this works in IDE but not in 
> standalone???
>
> Thanks
>
> Marian
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>


From jperryl at ecs.fullerton.edu  Sat Feb 14 17:03:05 2004
From: jperryl at ecs.fullerton.edu (Judy Perry)
Date: Sat, 14 Feb 2004 14:03:05 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Trying to buy Dan's bookuse-revolution@lists.runrev.com
In-Reply-To: <7D03F237-5F18-11D8-99B7-000A959D005E@earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.4.33.0402141401310.22597-100000@titan.ecs.fullerton.edu>

My printer's out of business.  I did start printing out pages 25 at a time
on the university's printers, but they're not always in the best of
shape...

Plus, when I print it out, it's not two-sided.

Haven't had the time to look through it really.  I suppose that some of
the screen shots would probably look better in color, but it's likely not
necessary.

Judy

On Sat, 14 Feb 2004, Marian Petrides wrote:

> Maybe I'm missing something, but can't you just print it on your laser
> printer (or a laser printer at work) and then take it to Kinko's for
> binding?  I've had them do spiral binding for me in the past and it
> cost under $5, probably more like $2-3.
>
> Are there color photos in the PDF that require printing on a color
> printer?  Is the hard copy book in color or B&W.  Inquiring minds want
> to know ;-)


From jperryl at ecs.fullerton.edu  Sat Feb 14 17:04:39 2004
From: jperryl at ecs.fullerton.edu (Judy Perry)
Date: Sat, 14 Feb 2004 14:04:39 -0800 (PST)
Subject: More questions about Dan's ebook
In-Reply-To: <402E6CA8.1040908@hyperactivesw.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.4.33.0402141403570.22597-100000@titan.ecs.fullerton.edu>

Ahhhhhhh...  so that's it!

Thanks!

Judy
On Sat, 14 Feb 2004, J. Landman Gay wrote:

> They aren't written yet. ;) Dan's working on volume 2 right now. As they
> are produced, those who purchased the electronic package can download
> the other volumes as they come out.
>
> The purchasing options were decided by RR and Dan Shafer. They decided
> that electronic editions were to be bought as a whole package, so that's
> all there is to buy.


From dsc at swcp.com  Sat Feb 14 17:22:57 2004
From: dsc at swcp.com (Dar Scott)
Date: Sat, 14 Feb 2004 15:22:57 -0700
Subject: Text to speech nonfunctional in standalone
In-Reply-To: <53DD7018-5F36-11D8-99B7-000A959D005E@earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <5704FDC0-5F3C-11D8-84BF-000A9567A3E6@swcp.com>


On Saturday, February 14, 2004, at 02:39 PM, Marian Petrides wrote:

> What gives?  Evidently there is some difference between the IDE and 
> the standalone that prevents the contents of the first field from 
> being properly captured and presented to the speech routine but also 
> prevents it from being passed to the second field.  But I can't figure 
> out why??????

 From the documentation for revSpeak:

   Important!  The revSpeak command is part of the Speech library. To 
ensure that the command works in a standalone application, you must 
include this custom library when you create your standalone. In Step 3 
of the Distribution Builder window, make sure the ?All Other Libraries? 
option on the Inclusions tab is checked.

Could this apply?

Dar Scott


From dsc at swcp.com  Sat Feb 14 17:30:06 2004
From: dsc at swcp.com (Dar Scott)
Date: Sat, 14 Feb 2004 15:30:06 -0700
Subject: Text to speech nonfunctional in standalone
In-Reply-To: <53DD7018-5F36-11D8-99B7-000A959D005E@earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <5749802C-5F3D-11D8-84BF-000A9567A3E6@swcp.com>


On Saturday, February 14, 2004, at 02:39 PM, Marian Petrides wrote:

> In the IDE:   the text entered into the first field gets spoken and 
> appears properly in the second field ("debug")
> In the standalone: No speech, no text placed into field "debug"

Your example has no 'try' structure.  Perhaps your standalone does not 
have an errorDialog handler.  Under those conditions, maybe the error 
of not finding revSpeak or its not executing completely for some 
reason, simply causes your mouseUp handler to quit.  Under these 
conditions you might not get any indication of what is happening, 
except that things stop at a particular point.

Dar Scott


From erikhans08 at yahoo.com  Sat Feb 14 17:41:58 2004
From: erikhans08 at yahoo.com (Erik Hansen)
Date: Sat, 14 Feb 2004 14:41:58 -0800 (PST)
Subject: sounds
In-Reply-To: <1ee.190bfb33.2d5f9931@aol.com>
Message-ID: <20040214224158.74003.qmail@web61109.mail.yahoo.com>


--- Revinfo1155 at aol.com wrote:
> What sounds are built into REV(such as beep)
> and where can we get other 
> sounds to import into stacks?

for rev > MIDI apps google:

Kurt Kaufman
UDI
Shakobox on Jacquie L. Gay site

more explicit later, must practice piano.

Erik Hansen



=====
erik at erikhansen.org    http://www.erikhansen.org

__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Finance: Get your refund fast by filing online.
http://taxes.yahoo.com/filing.html

From erikhans08 at yahoo.com  Sat Feb 14 17:44:11 2004
From: erikhans08 at yahoo.com (Erik Hansen)
Date: Sat, 14 Feb 2004 14:44:11 -0800 (PST)
Subject: virusPhobia- Subject: must indicate RunRev tie-in to avoid summary
	deletion
In-Reply-To: <1E4AD396-5F16-11D8-80C7-000393C4760A@mindlube.com>
Message-ID: <20040214224411.45011.qmail@web61105.mail.yahoo.com>


virusPhobia- Subject: must indicate RunRev tie-in
to avoid summary deletion.

Erik Hansen

=====
erik at erikhansen.org    http://www.erikhansen.org

__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Finance: Get your refund fast by filing online.
http://taxes.yahoo.com/filing.html

From mike at cyber-ny.com  Sat Feb 14 17:49:30 2004
From: mike at cyber-ny.com (Mike Brown)
Date: Sat, 14 Feb 2004 17:49:30 -0500
Subject: sounds
In-Reply-To: <20040214224158.74003.qmail@web61109.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <BC54102A.E1D2%mike@cyber-ny.com>

Here is a good site for searching for sounds:

http://www.findsounds.com/

- Mike


From erikhans08 at yahoo.com  Sat Feb 14 17:50:01 2004
From: erikhans08 at yahoo.com (Erik Hansen)
Date: Sat, 14 Feb 2004 14:50:01 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Qt AND Revolution
In-Reply-To: <F0B6BDC0-5F19-11D8-84BF-000A9567A3E6@swcp.com>
Message-ID: <20040214225001.84865.qmail@web61102.mail.yahoo.com>


--- Dar Scott <dsc at swcp.com> wrote:

> > QT = Quicktime or the Trolltech SDK?
> 
> Sorry.  TrollTech SDK.

good because QT works WITH RunRev, right?

google:

MIDIBuilder
Shakobox
makeSMF

for expanded auditory horizens in RuRev/QT.

excuse the unsolicited plug, but what
these guys have done knocks me out!

Erik Hansen


=====
erik at erikhansen.org    http://www.erikhansen.org

__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Finance: Get your refund fast by filing online.
http://taxes.yahoo.com/filing.html

From erikhans08 at yahoo.com  Sat Feb 14 17:52:22 2004
From: erikhans08 at yahoo.com (Erik Hansen)
Date: Sat, 14 Feb 2004 14:52:22 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Qt AND Revolution (correction)
In-Reply-To: <20040214225001.84865.qmail@web61102.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <20040214225222.76040.qmail@web61109.mail.yahoo.com>


--- Erik Hansen <erikhans08 at yahoo.com> wrote:
> 
> --- Dar Scott <dsc at swcp.com> wrote:
> 
> > > QT = Quicktime or the Trolltech SDK?
> > 
> > Sorry.  TrollTech SDK.
> 
> good because QuickTime works 
> WITH RunRev, right?
> 
> google: 
> MIDIBuilder
> Shakobox
> makeSMF
> 
> for expanded auditory horizens in RuRev/QT.
> 
> excuse the unsolicited plug, but what
> these guys have done knocks me out!

Erik Hansen



=====
erik at erikhansen.org    http://www.erikhansen.org

__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Finance: Get your refund fast by filing online.
http://taxes.yahoo.com/filing.html

From doug at webcrossing.com  Sat Feb 14 18:06:17 2004
From: doug at webcrossing.com (Doug Lerner)
Date: Sun, 15 Feb 2004 08:06:17 +0900
Subject: Building app distributions - some best practices?
In-Reply-To: <a05100300bc53cdfee5db@[66.52.165.217]>
Message-ID: <BC54D8F9.26C2B%doug@webcrossing.com>

On 2/14/04 10:08 PM, "Rob Cozens" <rcozens at pon.net> wrote:

>> OS 9
>> ----
>> I am not sure of the best way to bundle this for distribution, because the
>> app needs to preserve its macbinary resource fork. What do people use for
>> this so they can distribute it?
> 
> Hi Doug,
> 
> I use a MacBinary self-expanding Stuffit! archive.

Does the self-expanding version travel well over email and via FTP? I also
heard that Disk Utility had something for this...

doug


From doug at webcrossing.com  Sat Feb 14 18:19:25 2004
From: doug at webcrossing.com (Doug Lerner)
Date: Sun, 15 Feb 2004 08:19:25 +0900
Subject: Text to speech nonfunctional in standalone
In-Reply-To: <BAF87685-5F33-11D8-99B7-000A959D005E@earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <BC54DC0D.26C31%doug@webcrossing.com>

It could be the same reason why my video grabber worked in the IDE and did
not work at first in the standalone.

The speech feature requires that a separate file called "revspeech.bundle"
be in the data folder in the same location as the standalone. Make sure that
is also generated when building the application. And when you move the
application, make sure to take that data folder and bundle file with you.

doug

On 2/15/04 6:21 AM, "Marian Petrides" <mpetrides at earthlink.net> wrote:

> I just put together a very simple demonstration of the RevSpeak command
> which consists of a card with 2 items on it:
> 
> A field named "TextToSpeak" into which one enters text  and a button
> containing the following simple script.
> 
> On mouseUp
>  Put field "TextToSpeak" into whatText
>  RevSpeak whatText
> end mouseUp
> 
> This works just fine (speaks the text entered into the field whenever
> button is pressed) in the IDE running in Mac OS X 10.3.  However, when
> I make the stack into a standalone for OS X, pressing the button yields
> nothing but silence.
> 
> Anybody have any thoughts on why this works in IDE but not in
> standalone???
> 
> Thanks
> 
> Marian
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution


From mpetrides at earthlink.net  Sat Feb 14 18:34:40 2004
From: mpetrides at earthlink.net (Marian Petrides)
Date: Sat, 14 Feb 2004 18:34:40 -0500
Subject: Text to speech nonfunctional in standalone
In-Reply-To: <BC54DC0D.26C31%doug@webcrossing.com>
References: <BC54DC0D.26C31%doug@webcrossing.com>
Message-ID: <5BD9579A-5F46-11D8-99B7-000A959D005E@earthlink.net>

Doug

Thanks so much for the tip.  I didn't know I needed to manually move 
it.  Or (rereading your message) is there some checkbox I need to 
select to get it to be placed there in the process of making the 
standalone?

In any event, that may well be PART of the problem but manually moving 
revspeech.bundle into the data file for the app didn't fix things.  
And, it wouldn't explain why whatText doesn't seem to get the text from 
the first field and then put it into the second.... so there appears to 
be an additional problem with data not making it either into whatText 
or out of whatText into both the second field and the RevSpeak command.

Odd.

M


On Feb 14, 2004, at 6:19 PM, Doug Lerner wrote:

> It could be the same reason why my video grabber worked in the IDE and 
> did
> not work at first in the standalone.
>
> The speech feature requires that a separate file called 
> "revspeech.bundle"
> be in the data folder in the same location as the standalone. Make 
> sure that
> is also generated when building the application. And when you move the
> application, make sure to take that data folder and bundle file with 
> you.
>
> doug
>
> On 2/15/04 6:21 AM, "Marian Petrides" <mpetrides at earthlink.net> wrote:
>
>> I just put together a very simple demonstration of the RevSpeak 
>> command
>> which consists of a card with 2 items on it:
>>
>> A field named "TextToSpeak" into which one enters text  and a button
>> containing the following simple script.
>>
>> On mouseUp
>>  Put field "TextToSpeak" into whatText
>>  RevSpeak whatText
>> end mouseUp
>>
>> This works just fine (speaks the text entered into the field whenever
>> button is pressed) in the IDE running in Mac OS X 10.3.  However, when
>> I make the stack into a standalone for OS X, pressing the button 
>> yields
>> nothing but silence.
>>
>> Anybody have any thoughts on why this works in IDE but not in
>> standalone???
>>
>> Thanks
>>
>> Marian
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> use-revolution mailing list
>> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>


From 3mcgrath at adelphia.net  Sat Feb 14 18:45:32 2004
From: 3mcgrath at adelphia.net (Thomas McGrath III)
Date: Sat, 14 Feb 2004 18:45:32 -0500
Subject: Text to speech nonfunctional in standalone
In-Reply-To: <5BD9579A-5F46-11D8-99B7-000A959D005E@earthlink.net>
References: <BC54DC0D.26C31%doug@webcrossing.com>
	<5BD9579A-5F46-11D8-99B7-000A959D005E@earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <E0C8038E-5F47-11D8-85F5-000A95DA60FA@adelphia.net>

You should not have to move anything manually. Unless you are moving 
your app + .bundle's to CD or another folder!!!

IN the DB there is an option for "All other Libraries" and It must be 
selected for the standalone to work right. The same goes for the 
videograb library too.

Tom
On Feb 14, 2004, at 6:34 PM, Marian Petrides wrote:

> Doug
>
> Thanks so much for the tip.  I didn't know I needed to manually move 
> it.  Or (rereading your message) is there some checkbox I need to 
> select to get it to be placed there in the process of making the 
> standalone?
>
> In any event, that may well be PART of the problem but manually moving 
> revspeech.bundle into the data file for the app didn't fix things.  
> And, it wouldn't explain why whatText doesn't seem to get the text 
> from the first field and then put it into the second.... so there 
> appears to be an additional problem with data not making it either 
> into whatText or out of whatText into both the second field and the 
> RevSpeak command.
>
> Odd.
>
> M
>
>
> On Feb 14, 2004, at 6:19 PM, Doug Lerner wrote:
>
>> It could be the same reason why my video grabber worked in the IDE 
>> and did
>> not work at first in the standalone.
>>
>> The speech feature requires that a separate file called 
>> "revspeech.bundle"
>> be in the data folder in the same location as the standalone. Make 
>> sure that
>> is also generated when building the application. And when you move the
>> application, make sure to take that data folder and bundle file with 
>> you.
>>
>> doug
>>
>> On 2/15/04 6:21 AM, "Marian Petrides" <mpetrides at earthlink.net> wrote:
>>
>>> I just put together a very simple demonstration of the RevSpeak 
>>> command
>>> which consists of a card with 2 items on it:
>>>
>>> A field named "TextToSpeak" into which one enters text  and a button
>>> containing the following simple script.
>>>
>>> On mouseUp
>>>  Put field "TextToSpeak" into whatText
>>>  RevSpeak whatText
>>> end mouseUp
>>>
>>> This works just fine (speaks the text entered into the field whenever
>>> button is pressed) in the IDE running in Mac OS X 10.3.  However, 
>>> when
>>> I make the stack into a standalone for OS X, pressing the button 
>>> yields
>>> nothing but silence.
>>>
>>> Anybody have any thoughts on why this works in IDE but not in
>>> standalone???
>>>
>>> Thanks
>>>
>>> Marian
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> use-revolution mailing list
>>> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> use-revolution mailing list
>> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>>
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>
>

Thomas J. McGrath III
SCS
1000 Killarney Dr.
Pittsburgh, PA 15234
412-885-8541


From 3mcgrath at adelphia.net  Sat Feb 14 18:49:53 2004
From: 3mcgrath at adelphia.net (Thomas McGrath III)
Date: Sat, 14 Feb 2004 18:49:53 -0500
Subject: Building app distributions - some best practices?
In-Reply-To: <BC54D8F9.26C2B%doug@webcrossing.com>
References: <BC54D8F9.26C2B%doug@webcrossing.com>
Message-ID: <7C57D15C-5F48-11D8-85F5-000A95DA60FA@adelphia.net>

sit, zip and dmg all work well via email/http etc.

Note:
A lot of people have files as "http://something.com/download.php"
which on Mac OSX will open Dreamweaver, But the file is actually a .sit 
file and if you change the extension to .sit the OS will ask if you are 
sure, Just hit yeah and then double click on the newly named file and 
stuffit will uncompress it.

FWIW

Tom


On Feb 14, 2004, at 6:06 PM, Doug Lerner wrote:

> On 2/14/04 10:08 PM, "Rob Cozens" <rcozens at pon.net> wrote:
>
>>> OS 9
>>> ----
>>> I am not sure of the best way to bundle this for distribution, 
>>> because the
>>> app needs to preserve its macbinary resource fork. What do people 
>>> use for
>>> this so they can distribute it?
>>
>> Hi Doug,
>>
>> I use a MacBinary self-expanding Stuffit! archive.
>
> Does the self-expanding version travel well over email and via FTP? I 
> also
> heard that Disk Utility had something for this...
>
> doug
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>
>

Thomas J. McGrath III
SCS
1000 Killarney Dr.
Pittsburgh, PA 15234
412-885-8541


From pixelbird at interisland.net  Sat Feb 14 18:58:24 2004
From: pixelbird at interisland.net (Ken Norris)
Date: Sat, 14 Feb 2004 15:58:24 -0800
Subject: sounds
In-Reply-To: <20040214191955.D59FD9301DF@mail.runrev.com>
Message-ID: <BC53F620.4FC5%pixelbird@interisland.net>

Hi Dar,

> Date: Sat, 14 Feb 2004 11:43:39 -0700
> From: Dar Scott <dsc at swcp.com>
> Subject: Re: sounds
> 
> 
> On Saturday, February 14, 2004, at 11:10 AM, Ken Norris wrote:
> 
>> What you want to do is import them from a sound file
>> collection such as you can D/L from sites like this:
>> 
>> <http://www.a1freesoundeffects.com/>
> 
> This site has a CD with lots of sounds that comes with a commercial
> license for only 30 bucks.
-----------
But there's also several hundred free ones, i.e., you can D/L what you want
for nothing. I haven't seen another site with that much (apparently legal)
free stuff.

Ken N.


From pixelbird at interisland.net  Sat Feb 14 18:59:46 2004
From: pixelbird at interisland.net (Ken Norris)
Date: Sat, 14 Feb 2004 15:59:46 -0800
Subject: How to make a stack into a substack
In-Reply-To: <20040214191955.D59FD9301DF@mail.runrev.com>
Message-ID: <BC53F672.4FC6%pixelbird@interisland.net>

Hi Ken,

> Date: Sat, 14 Feb 2004 12:52:08 -0600
> From: "Ken Ray" <kray at sonsothunder.com>
> Subject: RE: How to make a stack into a substack
> 
> If you know the name of the mainstack that it should be a substack of,
> you can open the substack and type this in the message box:
> 
> set the mainstack of this stack to <mainStackName>
-----------
OK cool. I was afraid to try that.

Thanks,
Ken N.


From mpetrides at earthlink.net  Sat Feb 14 19:03:18 2004
From: mpetrides at earthlink.net (Marian Petrides)
Date: Sat, 14 Feb 2004 19:03:18 -0500
Subject: Text to speech nonfunctional in standalone
In-Reply-To: <5749802C-5F3D-11D8-84BF-000A9567A3E6@swcp.com>
References: <5749802C-5F3D-11D8-84BF-000A9567A3E6@swcp.com>
Message-ID: <5C0D9E02-5F4A-11D8-99B7-000A959D005E@earthlink.net>

Dar,

That (checking all libraries) did the trick. Thanks!

And you were right about why my "clever" little debugging statement 
didn't work--presumably because the mouseUp handler quit prematurely, 
although you would think it would not see the RevSpeak command until 
AFTER it had put the value of whatText into the second field.

Wouldn't it see and execute the put whatText into field "debug" before 
it even knew there was an unsupported revSpeak out there???

I have SO much to learn!
M


On Feb 14, 2004, at 5:30 PM, Dar Scott wrote:

>
> On Saturday, February 14, 2004, at 02:39 PM, Marian Petrides wrote:
>
>> In the IDE:   the text entered into the first field gets spoken and 
>> appears properly in the second field ("debug")
>> In the standalone: No speech, no text placed into field "debug"
>
> Your example has no 'try' structure.  Perhaps your standalone does not 
> have an errorDialog handler.  Under those conditions, maybe the error 
> of not finding revSpeak or its not executing completely for some 
> reason, simply causes your mouseUp handler to quit.  Under these 
> conditions you might not get any indication of what is happening, 
> except that things stop at a particular point.
>
> Dar Scott
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>


From pixelbird at interisland.net  Sat Feb 14 19:03:32 2004
From: pixelbird at interisland.net (Ken Norris)
Date: Sat, 14 Feb 2004 16:03:32 -0800
Subject: Sticky palettes
In-Reply-To: <20040214191955.D59FD9301DF@mail.runrev.com>
Message-ID: <BC53F754.4FC7%pixelbird@interisland.net>

Hi Ken,

> Date: Sat, 14 Feb 2004 13:13:24 -0600
> From: "Ken Ray" <kray at sonsothunder.com>
> Subject: RE: Sticky palettes
> 
>> Let me change the question: Can I poll a window's location as
>> I drag it by its titlebar?
> 
> You can in Windows by trapping the moveStack message. Unfortunately you
> only get the window's location on the Mac after you release the mouse.
-----------
Well, as it happens, this is for a Windows app, so this is good news today.

Thanks so much,
Ken N.


From Revinfo1155 at aol.com  Sat Feb 14 19:05:57 2004
From: Revinfo1155 at aol.com (Revinfo1155 at aol.com)
Date: Sat, 14 Feb 2004 19:05:57 EST
Subject: sounds
Message-ID: <1cd.1994af11.2d6011e5@aol.com>


In a message dated 2/14/04 5:49:53 PM, mike at cyber-ny.com writes:


> http://www.findsounds.com/
> 
> 

Thanks to all who responded with sound sites.

jack

From dsc at swcp.com  Sat Feb 14 19:23:35 2004
From: dsc at swcp.com (Dar Scott)
Date: Sat, 14 Feb 2004 17:23:35 -0700
Subject: Text to speech nonfunctional in standalone
In-Reply-To: <5BD9579A-5F46-11D8-99B7-000A959D005E@earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <316E109C-5F4D-11D8-84BF-000A9567A3E6@swcp.com>


On Saturday, February 14, 2004, at 04:34 PM, Marian Petrides wrote:

> Thanks so much for the tip.  I didn't know I needed to manually move 
> it.  Or (rereading your message) is there some checkbox I need to 
> select to get it to be placed there in the process of making the 
> standalone?

If you allow the Distribution Builder to place it, check "All Others" 
in the "Inclusions" tab.

Though this is under the heading "Script libraries:", this is really an 
external.  This is called a library other places and, though in a 
general sense it is, this can be confusing.

The DB will place the revSpeech.bundle next to the .app file.  It is 
not inside or in some special system folder.

The DB will append the path to the external to the externals property 
of the main stack, so it should not mess up what you have.

A path to an external is relative to defaultFolder at the time the 
folder is loaded, which in this case is the folder containing the .app. 
  So if you move the external down inside the .app, then you need to 
include that path.  I don't think having redundant paths will hurt.  
So, if you will be moving this, include that in the external paths 
before you build.

It is a little scary not knowing what the DB will do to your stack, so 
to feel comfortable, you might want to add some debug into in some of 
your first apps.

Dar Scott


From ian at azurevision.co.uk  Sat Feb 14 19:25:47 2004
From: ian at azurevision.co.uk (Ian Wood)
Date: Sun, 15 Feb 2004 00:25:47 +0000
Subject: Building app distributions - some best practices?
In-Reply-To: <7C57D15C-5F48-11D8-85F5-000A95DA60FA@adelphia.net>
References: <BC54D8F9.26C2B%doug@webcrossing.com>
	<7C57D15C-5F48-11D8-85F5-000A95DA60FA@adelphia.net>
Message-ID: <800F734E-5F4D-11D8-9B9E-0003935A2896@azurevision.co.uk>


On 14 Feb 2004, at 23:49, Thomas McGrath III wrote:

> sit, zip and dmg all work well via email/http etc.
>

<snip>

Are you sure about zip?  My experience is that applications never work 
on Mac 9 or X after being zipped, as it doesn't preserve the resource 
fork.  I find sit & dmg to be safer for apps.

Ian Wood


From dsc at swcp.com  Sat Feb 14 19:24:39 2004
From: dsc at swcp.com (Dar Scott)
Date: Sat, 14 Feb 2004 17:24:39 -0700
Subject: sounds
In-Reply-To: <BC53F620.4FC5%pixelbird@interisland.net>
Message-ID: <57705DD2-5F4D-11D8-84BF-000A9567A3E6@swcp.com>


On Saturday, February 14, 2004, at 04:58 PM, Ken Norris wrote:

> But there's also several hundred free ones, i.e., you can D/L what you 
> want
> for nothing. I haven't seen another site with that much (apparently 
> legal)
> free stuff.

That's not how read it.

I read 30 bucks.

Dar


From 3mcgrath at adelphia.net  Sat Feb 14 19:37:35 2004
From: 3mcgrath at adelphia.net (Thomas McGrath III)
Date: Sat, 14 Feb 2004 19:37:35 -0500
Subject: Building app distributions - some best practices?
In-Reply-To: <800F734E-5F4D-11D8-9B9E-0003935A2896@azurevision.co.uk>
References: <BC54D8F9.26C2B%doug@webcrossing.com>
	<7C57D15C-5F48-11D8-85F5-000A95DA60FA@adelphia.net>
	<800F734E-5F4D-11D8-9B9E-0003935A2896@azurevision.co.uk>
Message-ID: <25FF425E-5F4F-11D8-85F5-000A95DA60FA@adelphia.net>

OSX has builtin zip. It is under the actions button labeled "Create 
Archive of..."

OSX will also unzip via "BOMArchiveHelper" which is built in as well.

Of course it is best if zip files are created on the Mac since Windows 
zip files are not always predictable in preserving the resource fork. 
But OSX zip will do the job.

Stuffit will unzip as well.

Tom

On Feb 14, 2004, at 7:25 PM, Ian Wood wrote:

>
> On 14 Feb 2004, at 23:49, Thomas McGrath III wrote:
>
>> sit, zip and dmg all work well via email/http etc.
>>
>
> <snip>
>
> Are you sure about zip?  My experience is that applications never work 
> on Mac 9 or X after being zipped, as it doesn't preserve the resource 
> fork.  I find sit & dmg to be safer for apps.
>
> Ian Wood
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>
>

Thomas J. McGrath III
SCS
1000 Killarney Dr.
Pittsburgh, PA 15234
412-885-8541


From mpetrides at earthlink.net  Sat Feb 14 19:41:19 2004
From: mpetrides at earthlink.net (Marian Petrides)
Date: Sat, 14 Feb 2004 19:41:19 -0500
Subject: sounds
In-Reply-To: <57705DD2-5F4D-11D8-84BF-000A9567A3E6@swcp.com>
References: <57705DD2-5F4D-11D8-84BF-000A9567A3E6@swcp.com>
Message-ID: <AB793C74-5F4F-11D8-99B7-000A959D005E@earthlink.net>

Dar

What it says at that site is:

All sound files samples are FREE Downloads of Good Quality .wav audio 
for non-commercial use only.

You can buy Our CD of all the 860+ Sounds on Our Website in any Sound 
Format:

Sounds to me like you can d/l for free or save yourself the time and 
effort and buy the CD.

Marian


On Feb 14, 2004, at 7:24 PM, Dar Scott wrote:

>
> On Saturday, February 14, 2004, at 04:58 PM, Ken Norris wrote:
>
>> But there's also several hundred free ones, i.e., you can D/L what 
>> you want
>> for nothing. I haven't seen another site with that much (apparently 
>> legal)
>> free stuff.
>
> That's not how read it.
>
> I read 30 bucks.
>
> Dar
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>

From preid at reidit.demon.co.uk  Sat Feb 14 19:45:41 2004
From: preid at reidit.demon.co.uk (Peter Reid)
Date: Sun, 15 Feb 2004 00:45:41 +0000
Subject: Launching in OS X Problems
Message-ID: <p06020400bc546de3426a@[192.168.181.1]>

Hi

Did anyone get a solution to launching programs under OS X?  I'm 
using Rev 2.1.2 with OS X 10.3.2 and trying to "launch" the three 
media players: Flash, RealOne and Windows Media Player with relevant 
media files.  Only the Flash one works!

I've tried using:

    launch mediafile with mediaPlayer

(where mediaPlayer is the full path to the Windows Media Player, say)

If I try this in the Message box, I get the error "no such program". 
But if I omit the mediafile from the launch command:

    launch mediaPlayer

then it works fine, i.e. it opens the player (but doesn't play 
anything of course!).  This is true for both Windows Media Player and 
RealOne Player, both of which are carbonised by the look of it (they 
are .app bundles, with embedded Contents/MacOS etc.) unlike the Flash 
Player which seems to be a native app.

I even tried to use AppleScript instead:

     put "tell application " & quote & "Windows Media Player" & quote 
& return &\
         "  open " & quote & mediafile & quote & return &\
         "end tell" & return into theScript
     do theScript as AppleScript

but this just opens the Windows Media Player without playing the media file.

I want to be be able to make my Rev app like a video jukebox that 
handles the three  formats by opening the relevant player in its own 
window.

Any ideas please??

Peter
-- 
Peter Reid
Reid-IT Limited, Loughborough, Leics., UK
Tel: +44 (0)1509 268843 Fax: +44 (0)8700 527576
E-mail: preid at reidit.co.uk
         preid at reidit.demon.co.uk
         peter.reidit at ntlworld.com
Web: http://www.reidit.co.uk
      http://www.reidit.demon.co.uk

From dsc at swcp.com  Sat Feb 14 19:50:41 2004
From: dsc at swcp.com (Dar Scott)
Date: Sat, 14 Feb 2004 17:50:41 -0700
Subject: sounds
In-Reply-To: <AB793C74-5F4F-11D8-99B7-000A959D005E@earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <FA75C2F7-5F50-11D8-84BF-000A9567A3E6@swcp.com>


On Saturday, February 14, 2004, at 05:41 PM, Marian Petrides wrote:

> for non-commercial use only

not free

Dar Scott


From dsc at swcp.com  Sat Feb 14 19:55:13 2004
From: dsc at swcp.com (Dar Scott)
Date: Sat, 14 Feb 2004 17:55:13 -0700
Subject: Text to speech nonfunctional in standalone
In-Reply-To: <5C0D9E02-5F4A-11D8-99B7-000A959D005E@earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <9C9442FC-5F51-11D8-84BF-000A9567A3E6@swcp.com>


On Saturday, February 14, 2004, at 05:03 PM, Marian Petrides wrote:

> Wouldn't it see and execute the put whatText into field "debug" before 
> it even knew there was an unsupported revSpeak out there???

This is what you wrote earlier:

> On mouseUp
>   Put field "TextToSpeak" into whatText
>   RevSpeak whatText
>   put whatText into field "Debug"
> end mouseUp
>

The text of field "Debug" is set after the call to revSpeak.  If there 
is no revSpeak, then the handler will exit right there.  Execution will 
never get to the next line.

Dar Scott


From mpetrides at earthlink.net  Sat Feb 14 19:58:41 2004
From: mpetrides at earthlink.net (Marian Petrides)
Date: Sat, 14 Feb 2004 19:58:41 -0500
Subject: Text to speech nonfunctional in standalone
In-Reply-To: <9C9442FC-5F51-11D8-84BF-000A9567A3E6@swcp.com>
References: <9C9442FC-5F51-11D8-84BF-000A9567A3E6@swcp.com>
Message-ID: <189252D0-5F52-11D8-99B7-000A959D005E@earthlink.net>

You are right again.  My bad. Thanks, Dar.


On Feb 14, 2004, at 7:55 PM, Dar Scott wrote:

>
> On Saturday, February 14, 2004, at 05:03 PM, Marian Petrides wrote:
>
>> Wouldn't it see and execute the put whatText into field "debug" 
>> before it even knew there was an unsupported revSpeak out there???
>
> This is what you wrote earlier:
>
>> On mouseUp
>>   Put field "TextToSpeak" into whatText
>>   RevSpeak whatText
>>   put whatText into field "Debug"
>> end mouseUp
>>
>
> The text of field "Debug" is set after the call to revSpeak.  If there 
> is no revSpeak, then the handler will exit right there.  Execution 
> will never get to the next line.
>
> Dar Scott
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>


From dsc at swcp.com  Sat Feb 14 20:02:55 2004
From: dsc at swcp.com (Dar Scott)
Date: Sat, 14 Feb 2004 18:02:55 -0700
Subject: sounds
In-Reply-To: <FA75C2F7-5F50-11D8-84BF-000A9567A3E6@swcp.com>
Message-ID: <AFF665CE-5F52-11D8-84BF-000A9567A3E6@swcp.com>


On Saturday, February 14, 2004, at 05:50 PM, Dar Scott wrote:

>> for non-commercial use only
>
> not free

Boy, that was blunt.  Sorry.  I was needing to run out the door and now 
have a few seconds reprieve.

Aye, that is free in a limited sense and, perhaps, should be qualified 
as such.

Normally, I would not think of that as free.

Dar Scott


From doug at webcrossing.com  Sat Feb 14 20:23:43 2004
From: doug at webcrossing.com (Doug Lerner)
Date: Sun, 15 Feb 2004 10:23:43 +0900
Subject: Building app distributions - some best practices?
In-Reply-To: <25FF425E-5F4F-11D8-85F5-000A95DA60FA@adelphia.net>
Message-ID: <BC54F92F.26C6B%doug@webcrossing.com>

My test with OS X's built-in .zip archiving with OS 9 apps showed the
resource fork was not preserved. At least, an app archived that way could
not be successfully sent through email or ftp.

Also (and I mentioned this in my original note) when I .zip the Windows
build and then unzip on Windows I get "extra stuff" - a folder called
_MACOSX. Where is that coming froom?

doug

On 2/15/04 9:37 AM, "Thomas McGrath III" <3mcgrath at adelphia.net> wrote:

> OSX has builtin zip. It is under the actions button labeled "Create
> Archive of..."
> 
> OSX will also unzip via "BOMArchiveHelper" which is built in as well.
> 
> Of course it is best if zip files are created on the Mac since Windows
> zip files are not always predictable in preserving the resource fork.
> But OSX zip will do the job.
> 
> Stuffit will unzip as well.
> 
> Tom
> 
> On Feb 14, 2004, at 7:25 PM, Ian Wood wrote:
> 
>> 
>> On 14 Feb 2004, at 23:49, Thomas McGrath III wrote:
>> 
>>> sit, zip and dmg all work well via email/http etc.
>>> 
>> 
>> <snip>
>> 
>> Are you sure about zip?  My experience is that applications never work
>> on Mac 9 or X after being zipped, as it doesn't preserve the resource
>> fork.  I find sit & dmg to be safer for apps.
>> 
>> Ian Wood
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> use-revolution mailing list
>> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>> 
>> 
> 
> Thomas J. McGrath III
> SCS
> 1000 Killarney Dr.
> Pittsburgh, PA 15234
> 412-885-8541
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution


From mpetrides at earthlink.net  Sat Feb 14 20:24:58 2004
From: mpetrides at earthlink.net (Marian Petrides)
Date: Sat, 14 Feb 2004 20:24:58 -0500
Subject: sounds
In-Reply-To: <AFF665CE-5F52-11D8-84BF-000A9567A3E6@swcp.com>
References: <AFF665CE-5F52-11D8-84BF-000A9567A3E6@swcp.com>
Message-ID: <C4F93B9C-5F55-11D8-99B7-000A959D005E@earthlink.net>

Ayup. I missed that little caveat but it IS there.

The other site folks mentioned findsounds.com specifically has a caveat 
indicating that they make no promises re: copyright status of the files 
listed, so one probably needs to be careful what one uses from that 
site as well.

For those who might like to add a touch of music to a stack, something 
no one has mentioned yet is that the loops included with GarageBand are 
royalty free.  From Apple's website

 >>>>These professionally-recorded Apple Loops are all royalty-free 
interludes, played in a variety of moods and genres, on many different 
instruments.<<<

There are also a number of websites out there now offering additional 
free loops, as well as user-created pieces utilizing these loops.  I 
think most are referenced on www.macjams.com.  One site I know of 
offhand is http://www.bitshiftaudio.com/products/bbb/free_bee.html  
which is offering 40 MB of free loops for GarageBand.  The loops are 
available as AIFF files (which is why they are so large).

Marian


On Feb 14, 2004, at 8:02 PM, Dar Scott wrote:

>
> On Saturday, February 14, 2004, at 05:50 PM, Dar Scott wrote:
>
>>> for non-commercial use only
>>
>> not free
>
> Boy, that was blunt.  Sorry.  I was needing to run out the door and 
> now have a few seconds reprieve.
>
> Aye, that is free in a limited sense and, perhaps, should be qualified 
> as such.
>
> Normally, I would not think of that as free.
>
> Dar Scott
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>

From mpetrides at earthlink.net  Sat Feb 14 20:40:18 2004
From: mpetrides at earthlink.net (Marian Petrides)
Date: Sat, 14 Feb 2004 20:40:18 -0500
Subject: OT: Followup on Dan's book
In-Reply-To: <Pine.GSO.4.33.0402141401310.22597-100000@titan.ecs.fullerton.edu>
References: <Pine.GSO.4.33.0402141401310.22597-100000@titan.ecs.fullerton.edu>
Message-ID: <E8E40675-5F57-11D8-99B7-000A959D005E@earthlink.net>

I ended up deciding to spring for the full three-volume subscription 
and can confirm it's well worth the money.

The first volume is right around 350 pages in length. The portions I've 
glanced through appear to have LOTS of valuable information, clearly 
presented.  The photos are large enough that when you print them they 
are entirely legible.

And, the turnaround on getting an unlock code was an hour or two... 
ordered the subscription, went to dinner and had an unlock code waiting 
when I got home.  Not bad.

Judy,  you might consider that single-sided printing isn't all that 
terrible.  Yes it creates a lot thicker document, but you have facing 
pages on which to write notes, etc.  Even when I have access to a 
two-sided copier/printer, I elect single-sided.  And, for the $50 a 
volume Kinko's quoted you, you can BUY a nice laser printer (my HP 
LaserJet cost $130 new). Just a thought.

M

On Feb 14, 2004, at 5:03 PM, Judy Perry wrote:

> My printer's out of business.  I did start printing out pages 25 at a 
> time
> on the university's printers, but they're not always in the best of
> shape...
>
> Plus, when I print it out, it's not two-sided.
>
> Haven't had the time to look through it really.  I suppose that some of
> the screen shots would probably look better in color, but it's likely 
> not
> necessary.
>
> Judy
>
>  
>  


From doug at webcrossing.com  Sat Feb 14 21:00:34 2004
From: doug at webcrossing.com (Doug Lerner)
Date: Sun, 15 Feb 2004 11:00:34 +0900
Subject: group question
Message-ID: <BC5501D2.26C84%doug@webcrossing.com>

If I want to make a group out of all the objects in a card (all the objects
are graphics, images and text fields) so I can scroll the window, is there
an expression I can use to refer to "all the objects"?

If I do this, does it then prevent me from selecting individual objects in
the group?

doug


From kray at sonsothunder.com  Sat Feb 14 21:40:00 2004
From: kray at sonsothunder.com (Ken Ray)
Date: Sat, 14 Feb 2004 20:40:00 -0600
Subject: Launching in OS X Problems
In-Reply-To: <p06020400bc546de3426a@[192.168.181.1]>
Message-ID: <000001c3f36d$05f2aa00$6601a8c0@LightningFlash>

Peter,

Use the shell command "open" that you can run through Terminal. The
basic syntax at the command line is:

  open <pathToApp> <pathToDoc>

So here's the code I used (watch wrapping):

  on mouseUp
    put "open" && quote & "/Applications/Windows Media Player/Windows
Media Player.app" & \
      quote && "/Applications/Windows Media Player/sample.asf" & quote
into tCmd
    get shell(tCmd)
  end mouseUp

Works like a charm...

Ken Ray
Sons of Thunder Software
Email: kray at sonsothunder.com
Web Site: http://www.sonsothunder.com/ 

> -----Original Message-----
> From: use-revolution-bounces at lists.runrev.com 
> [mailto:use-revolution-bounces at lists.runrev.com] On Behalf Of 
> Peter Reid
> Sent: Saturday, February 14, 2004 6:46 PM
> To: Runtime Revolution Use Mailing List
> Subject: Launching in OS X Problems
> 
> 
> Hi
> 
> Did anyone get a solution to launching programs under OS X?  I'm 
> using Rev 2.1.2 with OS X 10.3.2 and trying to "launch" the three 
> media players: Flash, RealOne and Windows Media Player with relevant 
> media files.  Only the Flash one works!
> 
> I've tried using:
> 
>     launch mediafile with mediaPlayer
> 
> (where mediaPlayer is the full path to the Windows Media Player, say)
> 
> If I try this in the Message box, I get the error "no such program". 
> But if I omit the mediafile from the launch command:
> 
>     launch mediaPlayer
> 
> then it works fine, i.e. it opens the player (but doesn't play 
> anything of course!).  This is true for both Windows Media Player and 
> RealOne Player, both of which are carbonised by the look of it (they 
> are .app bundles, with embedded Contents/MacOS etc.) unlike the Flash 
> Player which seems to be a native app.
> 
> I even tried to use AppleScript instead:
> 
>      put "tell application " & quote & "Windows Media Player" & quote 
> & return &\
>          "  open " & quote & mediafile & quote & return &\
>          "end tell" & return into theScript
>      do theScript as AppleScript
> 
> but this just opens the Windows Media Player without playing 
> the media file.
> 
> I want to be be able to make my Rev app like a video jukebox that 
> handles the three  formats by opening the relevant player in its own 
> window.
> 
> Any ideas please??
> 
> Peter
> -- 
> Peter Reid
> Reid-IT Limited, Loughborough, Leics., UK
> Tel: +44 (0)1509 268843 Fax: +44 (0)8700 527576
> E-mail: preid at reidit.co.uk
>          preid at reidit.demon.co.uk
>          peter.reidit at ntlworld.com
> Web: http://www.reidit.co.uk
>       http://www.reidit.demon.co.uk 
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com 
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-> revolution
> 



From m.mackenzie at sasktel.net  Sat Feb 14 23:16:05 2004
From: m.mackenzie at sasktel.net (Mark MacKenzie)
Date: Sat, 14 Feb 2004 22:16:05 -0600
Subject: How To SCRAM Revolution when it is looping?
Message-ID: <402EF285.6090608@sasktel.net>

Occasionally Revolution will get into some kind of circular loop and I 
have to use Cntrl-Alt-Delete and task manager to abort the program.  
Hopefully I have saved not to long before.

I cannot find anything in the documentation (so far) which would 
indicate that stopping such a circularity is possible.  So, is it 
possible and if so how should I do it?

The SCRAM reference is borrowed from nuclear reactor operation of course 
as this is exactly what I feel I am needing to do!

Thanks

Mark MacKenzie


From dsc at swcp.com  Sat Feb 14 23:22:08 2004
From: dsc at swcp.com (Dar Scott)
Date: Sat, 14 Feb 2004 21:22:08 -0700
Subject: How To SCRAM Revolution when it is looping?
In-Reply-To: <402EF285.6090608@sasktel.net>
Message-ID: <8500DE40-5F6E-11D8-84BF-000A9567A3E6@swcp.com>


On Saturday, February 14, 2004, at 09:16 PM, Mark MacKenzie wrote:

> Occasionally Revolution will get into some kind of circular loop and I 
> have to use Cntrl-Alt-Delete and task manager to abort the program.  
> Hopefully I have saved not to long before.
>
> I cannot find anything in the documentation (so far) which would 
> indicate that stopping such a circularity is possible.  So, is it 
> possible and if so how should I do it?
>
Command-period      Mac OS or OS X

Control-period      Other
Control-break
SCRAM key*

*SCRAM key is missing on some systems

Dar Scott





From shedrup at ms9.hinet.net  Sat Feb 14 23:51:15 2004
From: shedrup at ms9.hinet.net (Friedrich F. Grohmann)
Date: Sun, 15 Feb 2004 12:51:15 +0800
Subject: special character question
Message-ID: <200402150449.MAA11129@msr5.hinet.net>

The scenario: PowerBook G4 with Rev working under Panther. I create a 
simple stack with one text field, font specified as "Times". Type text 
right into the field, then open the Character Palette via the Keyboard 
Menu in order to insert special characters. This does not work and I am 
told "Couldn't see the application font. Please set it to 'Times Regular' 
in the application." Typing "Times Regular" as the font in the Text 
Formatting section of the Object Inspector does not help.

Second attempt: I type the needed text including the special characters 
in a TextEdit document. Copy/paste into the Rev field. Different things 
happen:

     with the field font set to "Times" the special character will stick 
out as the character it should be but in another font (Helvetica?);

      with the field font specified as "Times,Roman" the special 
character and all the text following it will turn into the other font 
while the text before the special character stays in Times;

     if I select the pasted text and set the font via the menu to "Times" 
the special character turns into gibberish.

Is there a way to put special characters into Rev text fields in the font 
I need? Any help appreciated.

Fritz

From alex at mindlube.com  Sun Feb 15 00:08:12 2004
From: alex at mindlube.com (Alex Rice)
Date: Sat, 14 Feb 2004 22:08:12 -0700
Subject: Qt vs Revolution (NOT Apple Quicktime)
In-Reply-To: <9CF32AFC-5F2D-11D8-A777-000393B64EDC@lumin.us>
References: <85C5AFDD-5F17-11D8-84BF-000A9567A3E6@swcp.com>
	<924EF42B-5F2B-11D8-90F0-000393C4760A@mindlube.com>
	<9CF32AFC-5F2D-11D8-A777-000393B64EDC@lumin.us>
Message-ID: <F40EFB43-5F74-11D8-90F0-000393C4760A@mindlube.com>


On Feb 14, 2004, at 1:37 PM, Christopher Mitchell wrote:

> Also, at least on my powerbook, apps compiled with Qt have a giveaway 
> "buzz" or hum when i move a window or panel.  See 
> http://psi.affinix.com/ and see if it does it for you.

I downloaded Psi, on Panther, I can't distinguish it from a Carbon or 
Cocoa app. Seems perfectly normal even when moving windows. The widgets 
look to be real Aqua widgets (not emulated)

> Also, as mentioned, this demonstrates how unMaclike the interface can 
> be...
> It's pretty lame, and the pop up windows are all over the place.  
> Later versions have been getting better but it's really kind of 
> obnoxious so I use Fire instead for jabber.

Those are all GUI design issues, I think not flaws in the Qt toolkit 
itself. I actually can't tell Psi.app from a Carbon or Cocoa app. I 
would have no clue that it's built with xplatform C++. Except for that 
9 MB!! library file in Contents/Frameworks/libqt-mt.3.dylib. 14MB 
overall! That seems pretty big.

Opera the web browser is a Qt app (or press releases in 1999 said so 
anyways)

If I were a C++ programmer, then Qt would be what I'd be using for a 
GUI toolkit (if I could afford it).

--
Alex Rice | Mindlube Software | http://mindlube.com


From rodney at infiny.co.nz  Sun Feb 15 00:32:03 2004
From: rodney at infiny.co.nz (rodney tamblyn)
Date: Sun, 15 Feb 2004 18:32:03 +1300
Subject: No subject
Message-ID: <490A842A-5F78-11D8-BFF2-003065F97100@infiny.co.nz>

Does anyone know of a way to activate Revolution (from a script) that 
is, bring it to the front if it is not the frontmost application?

Thanks

~ Rodney

--
Rodney Tamblyn
44 Melville Street
Dunedin
New Zealand
+64 3 4778606
http://rodney.weblogs.com/


From b.xavier at internet.lu  Sun Feb 15 01:04:36 2004
From: b.xavier at internet.lu (MisterX)
Date: Sun, 15 Feb 2004 07:04:36 +0100
Subject: No subject
In-Reply-To: <490A842A-5F78-11D8-BFF2-003065F97100@infiny.co.nz>
Message-ID: <ENEALNOCJBOOOHHCCEKNEEDMFNAA.b.xavier@internet.lu>

Rodney,

On what platform? Im still working on the telepathy and divine guessing
plug-ins... ;)

On Macs you say

Oh computer,

Tell app xx to activate

via applescripts naturally...

On windows, you might need to search WSH...

On linux, RR doesnt run on my dreambox ;(

> -----Original Message-----
> From: use-revolution-bounces at lists.runrev.com
> [mailto:use-revolution-bounces at lists.runrev.com]On Behalf Of rodney
> tamblyn
> Sent: Sunday, February 15, 2004 06:32
> To: How to use Revolution
> Subject:
>
>
> Does anyone know of a way to activate Revolution (from a script) that
> is, bring it to the front if it is not the frontmost application?
>
> Thanks
>
> ~ Rodney
>
> --
> Rodney Tamblyn
> 44 Melville Street
> Dunedin
> New Zealand
> +64 3 4778606
> http://rodney.weblogs.com/
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution


From b.xavier at internet.lu  Sun Feb 15 01:04:37 2004
From: b.xavier at internet.lu (MisterX)
Date: Sun, 15 Feb 2004 07:04:37 +0100
Subject: How To SCRAM Revolution when it is looping?
In-Reply-To: <8500DE40-5F6E-11D8-84BF-000A9567A3E6@swcp.com>
Message-ID: <ENEALNOCJBOOOHHCCEKNGEDMFNAA.b.xavier@internet.lu>

you can also put in a safety mechanism...

if the mouse is down then exit repeat

> -----Original Message-----
> From: use-revolution-bounces at lists.runrev.com
> [mailto:use-revolution-bounces at lists.runrev.com]On Behalf Of Dar Scott
> Sent: Sunday, February 15, 2004 05:22
> To: How to use Revolution
> Subject: Re: How To SCRAM Revolution when it is looping?
> 
> 
> 
> On Saturday, February 14, 2004, at 09:16 PM, Mark MacKenzie wrote:
> 
> > Occasionally Revolution will get into some kind of circular loop and I 
> > have to use Cntrl-Alt-Delete and task manager to abort the program.  
> > Hopefully I have saved not to long before.
> >
> > I cannot find anything in the documentation (so far) which would 
> > indicate that stopping such a circularity is possible.  So, is it 
> > possible and if so how should I do it?
> >
> Command-period      Mac OS or OS X
> 
> Control-period      Other
> Control-break
> SCRAM key*
> 
> *SCRAM key is missing on some systems
> 
> Dar Scott
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution

From rodney at infiny.co.nz  Sun Feb 15 01:19:11 2004
From: rodney at infiny.co.nz (rodney tamblyn)
Date: Sun, 15 Feb 2004 19:19:11 +1300
Subject: activating windows Revolution
In-Reply-To: <490A842A-5F78-11D8-BFF2-003065F97100@infiny.co.nz>
References: <490A842A-5F78-11D8-BFF2-003065F97100@infiny.co.nz>
Message-ID: <DE8B85A7-5F7E-11D8-BFF2-003065F97100@infiny.co.nz>

There's no problem on the Mac (just use tell application ... activate 
applescript) the problem is under Windows.  I'm sure there is an easy 
way but would appreciate suggestions.

R.
On 15/02/2004, at 6:32 PM, rodney tamblyn wrote:

> Does anyone know of a way to activate Revolution (from a script) that 
> is, bring it to the front if it is not the frontmost application?
>
> Thanks
>
> ~ Rodney
>
> --
> Rodney Tamblyn
> 44 Melville Street
> Dunedin
> New Zealand
> +64 3 4778606
> http://rodney.weblogs.com/
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>
>
>
--
Rodney Tamblyn
44 Melville Street
Dunedin
New Zealand
+64 3 4778606
http://rodney.weblogs.com/


From SimPLsol at aol.com  Sun Feb 15 01:51:02 2004
From: SimPLsol at aol.com (SimPLsol at aol.com)
Date: Sun, 15 Feb 2004 01:51:02 EST
Subject: Experimenting with the Vera fonts
Message-ID: <46.46f174cc.2d6070d6@aol.com>

I have been using the Bitstream Vera typeface since it was discussed on the 
list and I like it a lot.
It is not as clean and well-balanced in small sizes as Geneva but it works, 
and at larger sizes it looks as good as Lucinda Grande and better than Arial. 
The dots in the middle of the zeros (to distinguish them from Os, "oh"s) do 
take some getting used to.
Vera comes in serif, San-serif, and proportional fonts that look good 
together. For calendars and number lists where you may have used Courier you can 
substitute Vera Sans-serif Mono and it will look good next to text in Vera 
Sans-serif Proportional (in my experiments Vera Mono replaced Courier exactly - with 
the same width and leading - and it looks much better). One could also use 
Vera Sans-serif for buttons and label text while balancing it with Vera Serif for 
user text entries. Lots of good possibilities.
Bitstream's licensing is also good, basically you can use the typeface in 
commercial products but not sell it on its own - very reasonable.
Paul Looney

From m.mackenzie at sasktel.net  Sun Feb 15 09:17:09 2004
From: m.mackenzie at sasktel.net (Mark MacKenzie)
Date: Sun, 15 Feb 2004 08:17:09 -0600
Subject: Activate Rev.
In-Reply-To: <490A842A-5F78-11D8-BFF2-003065F97100@infiny.co.nz>
References: <490A842A-5F78-11D8-BFF2-003065F97100@infiny.co.nz>
Message-ID: <402F7F65.3080008@sasktel.net>



rodney tamblyn wrote:

> Does anyone know of a way to activate Revolution (from a script) that 
> is, bring it to the front if it is not the frontmost application?
>
> Thanks
>
> ~ Rodney
>
> -- 
> Rodney Tamblyn
> 44 Melville Street


I believe that you have to do this outside Revolution.  On the Mac you 
can readily use Applescripting.
Windows is a bit trickier.
I have just been reviewing the Windows Scripting Host and it looks 
promising.
Have a look at the Windows site for this.

I created a simple *.vbs file in notepad.  This is a text file created 
in Notepad and saved with .vbx suffix.  When called it works through the 
Windows Scripting Host resident within Win2000 and XP.

File Contents as follows:

Const MAXIMIZE_WINDOW = 9
Set objShell = WScript.CreateObject("WScript.Shell")
objShell.Run "Revolution.exe", MAXIMIZE_WINDOW

saved as file:  minmaxprogwind.vbs

Please be advised that this script does not do what you wish as when I 
just tested it with an instance of Revolution open and minimized it 
actually called another instance of Rev. and opened it maximized!  This 
is a run command.  Perhaps the answer lies through using a "start using" 
command.  Certainly I was looking for that but found this instead..

You would also have to call this script from within whatever application 
you are using while Rev. app. is in the background.  Many programs allow 
that.

Back to poking around windows scripting!

Mark MacKenzie



From dsc at swcp.com  Sun Feb 15 11:03:00 2004
From: dsc at swcp.com (Dar Scott)
Date: Sun, 15 Feb 2004 09:03:00 -0700
Subject: Experimenting with the Vera fonts
In-Reply-To: <46.46f174cc.2d6070d6@aol.com>
Message-ID: <6DA69784-5FD0-11D8-BEA9-000A9567A3E6@swcp.com>


On Saturday, February 14, 2004, at 11:51 PM, SimPLsol at aol.com wrote:

> I have been using the Bitstream Vera typeface since it was discussed 
> on the
> list and I like it a lot.

What platforms have you been using the fonts on?  Have you seen any 
surprises in sizes?

Dar Scott



From revolution at duncansoftware.com  Sun Feb 15 11:08:33 2004
From: revolution at duncansoftware.com (Stu Duncan)
Date: Sun, 15 Feb 2004 11:08:33 -0500
Subject: Connection Failure/Launching HTML file
Message-ID: <000701c3f3dd$f7aae540$1402a8c0@Dell8250>

I am struggling with my limited Mac knowledge to solve the following
problem. I am attempting to launch an HTML file using the following code
which some kind person had placed on this list in the past. It works fine in
Windows, but when I attempt to use it on a Mac running some version of OS 9
it launches Internet Explorer OK but doesn't load the HTML file and instead
coughs up an Error box which says " A connection failure has occurred." I
can launch the HTML file by double clicking it, so I don't think there is a
problem with the resource fork although all of these files came from a
Windows machine. The path appears to be correct.

/Macintosh HD/Desktop Folder/Boreal Digital Dissection
Suite/Series/dswmedia/dissect.htm

on mouseup
  put the defaultfolder & vPathAndFileNames into vPath
  put the defaultfolder & vPathAndFileNames --puts out the above path
  launchfile vPath
end mouseup


on launchFile pFileName
  switch the platform
  case "Win32"
    set the hideConsoleWindows to true
    put empty into theTitle
    if "NT" is in the systemVersion then
      set the shellCommand to "cmd.exe"
      put quote & quote into theTitle
    end if
    get shell("start" && theTitle && Qt(pFileName))
    break
  case "MacOS"
    if word 1 of the systemVersion >=10 then
      do ("open location "&Qt(pFileName)) as appleScript
    else
      do ("open location "&Qt(revMacFromUnixPath(pFileName))) as appleScript
    end if
    break
  default
    get shell("konquerer" && Qt(pFileName))
    break
  end switch
end launchFile

function Qt pToQuote
  return quote&pToQuote&quote
end Qt



From sonesond1 at southernct.edu  Sun Feb 15 11:23:11 2004
From: sonesond1 at southernct.edu (Dan Soneson)
Date: Sun, 15 Feb 2004 11:23:11 -0500
Subject: SystemWindow editable fields?
Message-ID: <3FBEA658-5FD3-11D8-A7CF-00039303CE26@southernct.edu>

I just discovered the systemWindow property, which presents great 
possibilities for me in terms of building a web browser navigator. I am 
interested in directing the user to a specific web site and then 
presenting a set of activities and tasks to do with the material on the 
web page, for educational purposes. The systemWindow property allows me 
to keep my activity screen floating above the web page, even when the 
browser is the active application.

However, it seems I am not able to enter text into editable text fields 
in my window. I can select the field, but cannot enter text. I can drag 
text from the web page into one of the fields in my window, but once 
there, cannot edit the text either. (only tried with Rev 2.1.2 and OS X 
10.2.6 so far)

I attempt to set the stack to editable via the topLevel command -- to 
no effect, with one exception. If I include a button with the following 
script, it works just fine:

on mouseUp
    answer "You can now enter text into any field"
    lock messages
    topLevel this stack
    unlock messages
end mouseUp

It seems calling up the answer dialog box allows me to set my stack to 
the toplevel. Without the answer dialog, the topLevel command has no 
effect. However, whenever I click on the browser window I lose the 
ability to enter or modify text in the fields in my window, until I run 
the answer dialog again.

Is there any way to topLevel my systemWindow stack without a dialog 
box? Or any other workaround for allowing users to enter text into a 
stack with the systemWindow property set to true?

Thanks,
Dan

Daniel B. Soneson
Director, Language Lab
Southern CT State University


From shaosean at unitz.ca  Sun Feb 15 12:07:14 2004
From: shaosean at unitz.ca (shaosean at unitz.ca)
Date: Sun, 15 Feb 2004 12:07:14 -0500
Subject: SystemWindow editable fields?
In-Reply-To: <3FBEA658-5FD3-11D8-A7CF-00039303CE26@southernct.edu>
References: <3FBEA658-5FD3-11D8-A7CF-00039303CE26@southernct.edu>
Message-ID: <WorldClient-F200402151207.AA07140828@unitz.ca>

does a "systemWindow" receive the "resumeStack" message? if so, try 
putting the "topStack" command there..  (can't test for you as it 
doesn't work in windows, nor is the "systemWindow" property available in 
the version of runrev i run =/

-Sean


From chrism at lumin.us  Sun Feb 15 12:34:07 2004
From: chrism at lumin.us (Christopher Mitchell)
Date: Sun, 15 Feb 2004 11:34:07 -0600
Subject: Activate Rev.
In-Reply-To: <402F7F65.3080008@sasktel.net>
References: <490A842A-5F78-11D8-BFF2-003065F97100@infiny.co.nz>
	<402F7F65.3080008@sasktel.net>
Message-ID: <28399860-5FDD-11D8-818C-000393B64EDC@lumin.us>

Regarding Windows Scripting Host, isn't it optional on the system 
install?  I seem to recall many times having to select it to be 
installed... Just thinking out loud that this might be an issue if one 
becomes dependent on its presence, unlike Applescript which is fully 
integrated, and used frequently as a result.

I could be wrong here!

Yours,
Chris
On Feb 15, 2004, at 8:17 AM, Mark MacKenzie wrote:

>
>
> rodney tamblyn wrote:
>
>> Does anyone know of a way to activate Revolution (from a script) that 
>> is, bring it to the front if it is not the frontmost application?
>>
>> Thanks
>>
>> ~ Rodney
>>
>> -- 
>> Rodney Tamblyn
>> 44 Melville Street
>
>
> I believe that you have to do this outside Revolution.  On the Mac you 
> can readily use Applescripting.
> Windows is a bit trickier.
> I have just been reviewing the Windows Scripting Host and it looks 
> promising.
> Have a look at the Windows site for this.
>
> I created a simple *.vbs file in notepad.  This is a text file created 
> in Notepad and saved with .vbx suffix.  When called it works through 
> the Windows Scripting Host resident within Win2000 and XP.
>
> File Contents as follows:
>
> Const MAXIMIZE_WINDOW = 9
> Set objShell = WScript.CreateObject("WScript.Shell")
> objShell.Run "Revolution.exe", MAXIMIZE_WINDOW
>
> saved as file:  minmaxprogwind.vbs
>
> Please be advised that this script does not do what you wish as when I 
> just tested it with an instance of Revolution open and minimized it 
> actually called another instance of Rev. and opened it maximized!  
> This is a run command.  Perhaps the answer lies through using a "start 
> using" command.  Certainly I was looking for that but found this 
> instead..
>
> You would also have to call this script from within whatever 
> application you are using while Rev. app. is in the background.  Many 
> programs allow that.
>
> Back to poking around windows scripting!
>
> Mark MacKenzie
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>


From m.mackenzie at sasktel.net  Sun Feb 15 13:33:52 2004
From: m.mackenzie at sasktel.net (Mark MacKenzie)
Date: Sun, 15 Feb 2004 12:33:52 -0600
Subject: Activate Rev.
In-Reply-To: <28399860-5FDD-11D8-818C-000393B64EDC@lumin.us>
References: <490A842A-5F78-11D8-BFF2-003065F97100@infiny.co.nz>
	<28399860-5FDD-11D8-818C-000393B64EDC@lumin.us>
Message-ID: <402FBB90.6070508@sasktel.net>

Yes you are correct I think.

Please see this URL for more information from the horse's mouth.

http://www.microsoft.com/technet/treeview/default.asp?url=/technet/scriptcenter/scrptfaq.asp

There is a table on that page which details OS and what works or not.

There is even a promise  of future development of a script which will 
query the host system for details on whether other scripts will run or not.

Windows installers such as SetUpFactory from Indigo Rose which I have 
used a lot, will poll the windows system and allow separate, Boolean 
logic driven installs of ancillary software.

However, another caveat when considering Windows or VB scripts for 
activating Revolution is that on my system (XP with McCafee) the 
antivirus software throws a suspicious script activity warning requiring 
"training" by the user.  Not a good user/client confidence building 
exercise!

So, I don't think the current scripting ideas do what was originally 
wanted.  Looking at a direct comand line script may be better.

Regards Mark MacKenzie

Christopher Mitchell wrote:

> Regarding Windows Scripting Host, isn't it optional on the system 
> install?  I seem to recall many times having to select it to be 
> installed... Just thinking out loud that this might be an issue if one 
> becomes dependent on its presence, unlike Applescript which is fully 
> integrated, and used frequently as a result.
>
> I could be wrong here!
>



From kray at sonsothunder.com  Sun Feb 15 14:06:45 2004
From: kray at sonsothunder.com (Ken Ray)
Date: Sun, 15 Feb 2004 13:06:45 -0600
Subject: activating windows Revolution
In-Reply-To: <DE8B85A7-5F7E-11D8-BFF2-003065F97100@infiny.co.nz>
Message-ID: <008d01c3f3f6$def88840$6601a8c0@LightningFlash>

Rodney,

Check out:

http://www.sonsothunder.com/devres/revolution/revolution.htm?_proc001

Ken Ray
Sons of Thunder Software
Email: kray at sonsothunder.com
Web Site: http://www.sonsothunder.com/ 

> -----Original Message-----
> From: use-revolution-bounces at lists.runrev.com 
> [mailto:use-revolution-bounces at lists.runrev.com] On Behalf Of 
> rodney tamblyn
> Sent: Sunday, February 15, 2004 12:19 AM
> To: How to use Revolution
> Subject: Re: activating windows Revolution
> 
> 
> There's no problem on the Mac (just use tell application ... activate 
> applescript) the problem is under Windows.  I'm sure there is an easy 
> way but would appreciate suggestions.
> 
> R.
> On 15/02/2004, at 6:32 PM, rodney tamblyn wrote:
> 
> > Does anyone know of a way to activate Revolution (from a 
> script) that
> > is, bring it to the front if it is not the frontmost application?
> >
> > Thanks
> >
> > ~ Rodney
> >
> > --
> > Rodney Tamblyn
> > 44 Melville Street
> > Dunedin
> > New Zealand
> > +64 3 4778606
> > http://rodney.weblogs.com/
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > use-revolution mailing list
> > use-revolution at lists.runrev.com 
> > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
> >
> >
> >
> --
> Rodney Tamblyn
> 44 Melville Street
> Dunedin
> New Zealand
> +64 3 4778606
> http://rodney.weblogs.com/
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com 
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-> revolution
> 



From kray at sonsothunder.com  Sun Feb 15 14:17:24 2004
From: kray at sonsothunder.com (Ken Ray)
Date: Sun, 15 Feb 2004 13:17:24 -0600
Subject: SystemWindow editable fields?
In-Reply-To: <3FBEA658-5FD3-11D8-A7CF-00039303CE26@southernct.edu>
Message-ID: <009001c3f3f8$5c351ed0$6601a8c0@LightningFlash>

Dan,

I just tried it in 2.1.2 under Panther (10.3.2) and it works for me; I
can edit text, etc. Instead of trying to "topLevel" the stack, why don't
you just set the systemWindow to false?

Ken Ray
Sons of Thunder Software
Email: kray at sonsothunder.com
Web Site: http://www.sonsothunder.com/ 


> -----Original Message-----
> From: use-revolution-bounces at lists.runrev.com 
> [mailto:use-revolution-bounces at lists.runrev.com] On Behalf Of 
> Dan Soneson
> Sent: Sunday, February 15, 2004 10:23 AM
> To: use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> Subject: SystemWindow editable fields?
> 
> 
> I just discovered the systemWindow property, which presents great 
> possibilities for me in terms of building a web browser 
> navigator. I am 
> interested in directing the user to a specific web site and then 
> presenting a set of activities and tasks to do with the 
> material on the 
> web page, for educational purposes. The systemWindow property 
> allows me 
> to keep my activity screen floating above the web page, even when the 
> browser is the active application.
> 
> However, it seems I am not able to enter text into editable 
> text fields 
> in my window. I can select the field, but cannot enter text. 
> I can drag 
> text from the web page into one of the fields in my window, but once 
> there, cannot edit the text either. (only tried with Rev 
> 2.1.2 and OS X 
> 10.2.6 so far)
> 
> I attempt to set the stack to editable via the topLevel command -- to 
> no effect, with one exception. If I include a button with the 
> following 
> script, it works just fine:
> 
> on mouseUp
>     answer "You can now enter text into any field"
>     lock messages
>     topLevel this stack
>     unlock messages
> end mouseUp
> 
> It seems calling up the answer dialog box allows me to set my 
> stack to 
> the toplevel. Without the answer dialog, the topLevel command has no 
> effect. However, whenever I click on the browser window I lose the 
> ability to enter or modify text in the fields in my window, 
> until I run 
> the answer dialog again.
> 
> Is there any way to topLevel my systemWindow stack without a dialog 
> box? Or any other workaround for allowing users to enter text into a 
> stack with the systemWindow property set to true?
> 
> Thanks,
> Dan
> 
> Daniel B. Soneson
> Director, Language Lab
> Southern CT State University
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com 
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-> revolution
> 



From kray at sonsothunder.com  Sun Feb 15 14:21:49 2004
From: kray at sonsothunder.com (Ken Ray)
Date: Sun, 15 Feb 2004 13:21:49 -0600
Subject: group question
In-Reply-To: <BC5501D2.26C84%doug@webcrossing.com>
Message-ID: <009101c3f3f8$f960b750$6601a8c0@LightningFlash>

Doug,

There isn't a "select all objects" command, but you can accomplish it in
one of two ways:

1) select <obj1> and <obj2> and <obj3> ... and <objN>

2) repeat through all the objects and set the 'selected' property of the
object to true

Personally I prefer #2 as it is easier:

  repeat with x = 1 to the number of controls
    set the selected of control x to true
  end repeat

Then execute the "group" command.

After you have grouped a set of objects, you can select individual
objects in the group *by* script at any time, but if you want the user
to manipulate them with the pointer tool, you'll need to set the
selectGroupedControls property to true.

HTH,

Ken Ray
Sons of Thunder Software
Email: kray at sonsothunder.com
Web Site: http://www.sonsothunder.com/ 

> -----Original Message-----
> From: use-revolution-bounces at lists.runrev.com 
> [mailto:use-revolution-bounces at lists.runrev.com] On Behalf Of 
> Doug Lerner
> Sent: Saturday, February 14, 2004 8:01 PM
> To: How to use Revolution
> Subject: group question
> 
> 
> If I want to make a group out of all the objects in a card 
> (all the objects are graphics, images and text fields) so I 
> can scroll the window, is there an expression I can use to 
> refer to "all the objects"?
> 
> If I do this, does it then prevent me from selecting 
> individual objects in the group?
> 
> doug
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com 
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-> revolution
> 



From pixelbird at interisland.net  Sun Feb 15 16:25:44 2004
From: pixelbird at interisland.net (Ken Norris)
Date: Sun, 15 Feb 2004 13:25:44 -0800
Subject: sounds/telephony
In-Reply-To: <20040215050811.B81B9930199@mail.runrev.com>
Message-ID: <BC5523D8.4FEA%pixelbird@interisland.net>

Hi Folks,

> Date: Sat, 14 Feb 2004 20:24:58 -0500
> From: Marian Petrides <mpetrides at earthlink.net>
> Subject: Re: sounds

> The other site folks mentioned findsounds.com specifically has a caveat
> indicating that they make no promises re: copyright status of the files
> listed, so one probably needs to be careful what one uses from that
> site as well.
------------
I pulled a bunch of telephone dial tones off that site. I don't see how its
possible for them to be copyrighted, but you never know.

For our volunteer group, I'm trying to build a custom dialer for Windows in
Rev, but it's turning out to be a pain in the script. I must say I really
miss HyperCard's "dial" command. Any chance of getting that feature down the
road? I.e., a replacement for:

dial "1234567" 
-- or
dial "1234567" with modem

Anyway, my question burns down to this:

How to dial a phone number in Windows from Rev:

A) Using the modem.

I found this:

on dial dNumber
  open file "modem:" for write
  write "ATDT" && dNumber to file "modem:" ## Does it need '& return'?
  close file "modem:"
end dial dNumber

B) Through the speakers, if that is the only other option.

I understand modem AT commands, but I also know that voice modems are a
rarity, so anything done this way means the phone must be held off the hook.
Still, using the modem to dial would still be much more convenient than
having to hold the receiver up to a speaker.

Mega T's IA,
Ken N.


From pixelbird at interisland.net  Sun Feb 15 16:45:16 2004
From: pixelbird at interisland.net (Ken Norris)
Date: Sun, 15 Feb 2004 13:45:16 -0800
Subject: sounds/telephony
In-Reply-To: <20040215050811.B81B9930199@mail.runrev.com>
Message-ID: <BC55286C.4FEB%pixelbird@interisland.net>

P.S.

This:

on mouseUp
  dial "1234567"
end mouseUp

on dial dNumber -- function by Sjoerd Op 't Land
   open file modem: for write
   write "ATDT" && dNumber && return to file modem:
end dial dNumber

...does nothing on my Mac G4, built-in modem, OS 9.2.1

Any suggestions?

TIA,
Ken N.


From doug at webcrossing.com  Sun Feb 15 17:13:16 2004
From: doug at webcrossing.com (Doug Lerner)
Date: Mon, 16 Feb 2004 07:13:16 +0900
Subject: group question
In-Reply-To: <009101c3f3f8$f960b750$6601a8c0@LightningFlash>
Message-ID: <BC561E0C.26DC6%doug@webcrossing.com>

Thanks. That was helpful!

doug

On 2/16/04 4:21 AM, "Ken Ray" <kray at sonsothunder.com> wrote:

> Doug,
> 
> There isn't a "select all objects" command, but you can accomplish it in
> one of two ways:
> 
> 1) select <obj1> and <obj2> and <obj3> ... and <objN>
> 
> 2) repeat through all the objects and set the 'selected' property of the
> object to true
> 
> Personally I prefer #2 as it is easier:
> 
> repeat with x = 1 to the number of controls
>   set the selected of control x to true
> end repeat
> 
> Then execute the "group" command.
> 
> After you have grouped a set of objects, you can select individual
> objects in the group *by* script at any time, but if you want the user
> to manipulate them with the pointer tool, you'll need to set the
> selectGroupedControls property to true.
> 
> HTH,
> 
> Ken Ray
> Sons of Thunder Software
> Email: kray at sonsothunder.com
> Web Site: http://www.sonsothunder.com/
> 
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: use-revolution-bounces at lists.runrev.com
>> [mailto:use-revolution-bounces at lists.runrev.com] On Behalf Of
>> Doug Lerner
>> Sent: Saturday, February 14, 2004 8:01 PM
>> To: How to use Revolution
>> Subject: group question
>> 
>> 
>> If I want to make a group out of all the objects in a card
>> (all the objects are graphics, images and text fields) so I
>> can scroll the window, is there an expression I can use to
>> refer to "all the objects"?
>> 
>> If I do this, does it then prevent me from selecting
>> individual objects in the group?
>> 
>> doug
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> use-revolution mailing list
>> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-> revolution
>> 
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution


From pixelbird at interisland.net  Sun Feb 15 17:27:01 2004
From: pixelbird at interisland.net (Ken Norris)
Date: Sun, 15 Feb 2004 14:27:01 -0800
Subject: Sticky palettes
In-Reply-To: <20040214191955.D59FD9301DF@mail.runrev.com>
Message-ID: <BC553235.4FED%pixelbird@interisland.net>

Hi Ken R,

> Date: Sat, 14 Feb 2004 13:10:01 -0600
> From: "Ken Ray" <kray at sonsothunder.com>
> Subject: RE: Sticky palettes
>
> Ken, "dragWindow" in SC is just a message sent ot the current window
> when the window has been dragged using the titleBar. In Rev, this same
> message is called "moveStack".
> 
> Note that in SC you get this message when you have finished dragging;
-----------
I don't think so. It looks like you're saying "dragWindow" in SC gets
executed after you drag, but that cannot be true. Specifying a location for
the palette window relative to the main window causes the palette to stay
docked in the main window wherever you drag it. I'd be happy to send you an
example I have running in SC4 if you like.
-----------
> in Rev, you get the same message when you have finished dragging on the Mac,
-----------
Then "moveStack" in Rev cannot be the same as "dragWindow" in SC.
-----------
> but you get the message *continually* while you are dragging in Windows. In
> either case, you get two parameters that come in as part of the moveStack
> message that correspond to the top-left corner of the stack window at its new
> location.
-----------
Which is the same as "dragWindow" in SC, I think.

Whatever the case, I can see a need to use the feature cross-platform, so I
need to experiment. I'll let you know my findings.

But for now, I only need it to run in Windows. My Windows machine is
basically monitorless at the moment. The Switchbox causes a ghost problem on
the Mac. I tried changing settings but no joy. I had to use a direct
connection which takes great effort for me to deal with.

For the moment, I'm trying to avoid building windowShape emulations or fake
window graphics (possible but too much work).

Ken N.


From dsc at swcp.com  Sun Feb 15 17:30:03 2004
From: dsc at swcp.com (Dar Scott)
Date: Sun, 15 Feb 2004 15:30:03 -0700
Subject: sounds/telephony
In-Reply-To: <BC5523D8.4FEA%pixelbird@interisland.net>
Message-ID: <7FB2CEBF-6006-11D8-BEA9-000A9567A3E6@swcp.com>


On Sunday, February 15, 2004, at 02:25 PM, Ken Norris wrote:

> I understand modem AT commands, but I also know that voice modems are a
> rarity, so anything done this way means the phone must be held off the 
> hook.

But dialing has nothing to do with it being a voice modem.  The modem 
has to dial when making a data connection, too.

Maybe this operational procedure will work.

1.  The operator clicks a button to start a dial.
2.  When it is complete the operator picks up a handset or turns on a 
headset.
3.  The modem waits a bit an hangs up, but the operator stays on.  (Or 
the operator clicks something else.)
4.  Conversation.
5.  The operator hangs up or turns off the headset (effectively hanging 
up).

All you need is the dialing for step 1.  Try the AT commands for that.

Off the top of my head:

on dial dNumber
   open driver "com3:" for update
   write "AT" & numToChar(13) to driver "com3:"-- dummy command
   write "ATDT & dNumber & numToChar(13) to driver "com3:"-- dial number
   send hangUp to me in 10 seconds
end dial

on hangUp
   write "ATH0" & numToChar(13) to driver "com3:"
   close driver "com3:"
end hangUp

You have to modify this to use the right com port.  You might like a 
different way to hang up.  If you use an external modem you may need to 
set up serialControlString.  Some modems are not exactly Hayes 
compatible and you may need to fiddle with the line end.

Perhaps I am missing something in what you need.

Dar Scott


From sonesond1 at southernct.edu  Sun Feb 15 17:32:01 2004
From: sonesond1 at southernct.edu (Dan Soneson)
Date: Sun, 15 Feb 2004 17:32:01 -0500
Subject: SystemWindow editable fields?
Message-ID: <C642CC16-6006-11D8-9FCF-00039303CE26@southernct.edu>

> I just tried it in 2.1.2 under Panther (10.3.2) and it works for me; I
> can edit text, etc. Instead of trying to "topLevel" the stack, why 
> don't
> you just set the systemWindow to false?
>
> Ken Ray
> Sons of Thunder Software

Thanks for your response, Ken.

By setting the systemWindow to false I would lose the ability to have 
the window visible at all times. Unless, are you suggesting that I 
somehow reset the systemWindow to true whenever the suspendStack 
message is sent?

Are you able in Panther to open a web page in a separate browser and 
then enter and edit text in a field with the systemWindow property set 
to true? Most of the time the keydown messages get sent to the browser 
and not to the Rev app, even though I click in the field to highlight 
it in the Rev app first.

There are indeed times when this actually works in my project - I can 
actually go back and forth between the Rev window and the browser 
window and enter text into various fields in the Rev app, but those 
times are rare. I can't figure out what causes it to work right.

Thanks,
Dan

Daniel B. Soneson
Director, Language Lab
Southern CT State University

From sonesond1 at southernct.edu  Sun Feb 15 17:36:30 2004
From: sonesond1 at southernct.edu (Dan Soneson)
Date: Sun, 15 Feb 2004 17:36:30 -0500
Subject: SystemWindow editable fields?
Message-ID: <6604C124-6007-11D8-9FCF-00039303CE26@southernct.edu>

> does a "systemWindow" receive the "resumeStack" message? if so, try
> putting the "topStack" command there..  (can't test for you as it
> doesn't work in windows, nor is the "systemWindow" property available 
> in
> the version of runrev i run =/
>
> -Sean

Thanks for the suggestion, Sean. The systemWindow does seem to receive 
the "resumeStack" message, but still does not seem to want to set 
itself to the toplevel. In the stack script

on resumeStack
    beep
    toplevel this stack
end resumeStack

I get a nice system beep whenever I return to the stack, but still 
cannot enter text into any of the editable fields in this stack.

Still puzzled.
Dan


Daniel B. Soneson
Director, Language Lab
Southern CT State University

From dsc at swcp.com  Sun Feb 15 17:46:45 2004
From: dsc at swcp.com (Dar Scott)
Date: Sun, 15 Feb 2004 15:46:45 -0700
Subject: sounds/telephony
In-Reply-To: <BC5523D8.4FEA%pixelbird@interisland.net>
Message-ID: <D4FC5966-6008-11D8-BEA9-000A9567A3E6@swcp.com>


On Sunday, February 15, 2004, at 02:25 PM, Ken Norris wrote:

> I must say I really
> miss HyperCard's "dial" command. Any chance of getting that feature 
> down the
> road? I.e., a replacement for:
>
> dial "1234567"
> -- or
> dial "1234567" with modem

But these are really at a toy level and awkward to use.

For games that have a phone to use the first might be used, but so can 
playing dial sounds.

For the latter, the utility is awkward, because of the need to take the 
phone off hook by hand and to hangup by hand.  There may be some uses 
where the ringing of the phone is the desired result.

Since these are straightforward to build, these might be better in 
somebody's goodies collection than in Revolution.  Or in tips.

Unfortunately, more serious phone control is more expensive or harder.  
One way to go is BlueTooth.  Another is a phone gadget that looks like 
serial to Revolution.

Dar Scott


From dsc at swcp.com  Sun Feb 15 17:52:37 2004
From: dsc at swcp.com (Dar Scott)
Date: Sun, 15 Feb 2004 15:52:37 -0700
Subject: sounds/telephony
In-Reply-To: <BC5523D8.4FEA%pixelbird@interisland.net>
Message-ID: <A6A51B3A-6009-11D8-BEA9-000A9567A3E6@swcp.com>

Long ago, someone contributed this:


>  	open file "com3:" for write
>     	write "ATS7=1L0DT" & tNumber & cr to file "com3:"
>     	wait 10 secs
>     	close file "com3:"

This is similar to that mentioned before, except this sets carrier wait 
time to 1 second and turns off the speaker volume.

You might prefer that the wait time is longer or the speaker being on.  
You might also consider setting register S6 for blind dialing.

Dar Scott


From kray at sonsothunder.com  Sun Feb 15 20:19:49 2004
From: kray at sonsothunder.com (Ken Ray)
Date: Sun, 15 Feb 2004 19:19:49 -0600
Subject: SystemWindow editable fields?
In-Reply-To: <C642CC16-6006-11D8-9FCF-00039303CE26@southernct.edu>
Message-ID: <00d601c3f42a$fc984ff0$6601a8c0@LightningFlash>

> Are you able in Panther to open a web page in a separate browser and 
> then enter and edit text in a field with the systemWindow 
> property set 
> to true? 

Actually, no I can't. I get a beep instead. When Rev is the frontmost
app, it works; when it's not, it doesn't (or at least not consistently).
I'll play with a few things and let you know if I find a workaround...


Ken Ray
Sons of Thunder Software
Email: kray at sonsothunder.com
Web Site: http://www.sonsothunder.com/ 



From kray at sonsothunder.com  Sun Feb 15 20:25:29 2004
From: kray at sonsothunder.com (Ken Ray)
Date: Sun, 15 Feb 2004 19:25:29 -0600
Subject: Sticky palettes
In-Reply-To: <BC553235.4FED%pixelbird@interisland.net>
Message-ID: <00d701c3f42b$c6cdc110$6601a8c0@LightningFlash>

> > Ken, "dragWindow" in SC is just a message sent ot the 
> current window 
> > when the window has been dragged using the titleBar. In 
> Rev, this same 
> > message is called "moveStack".
> > 
> > Note that in SC you get this message when you have finished 
> dragging;
> -----------
> I don't think so. It looks like you're saying "dragWindow" in 
> SC gets executed after you drag, but that cannot be true. 
> Specifying a location for the palette window relative to the 
> main window causes the palette to stay docked in the main 
> window wherever you drag it. I'd be happy to send you an 
> example I have running in SC4 if you like.

I'd like to see it; I made a simple project with an "on dragWindow"
handler at the card layer and told it to put the location of the window.
It only did so when I released. Earlier you'd mentioned a dragWindow
"function" - could this be the difference? Is there some kind of
external at play?

Just curious,

Ken Ray
Sons of Thunder Software
Email: kray at sonsothunder.com
Web Site: http://www.sonsothunder.com/ 



From 3mcgrath at adelphia.net  Sun Feb 15 21:46:59 2004
From: 3mcgrath at adelphia.net (Thomas McGrath III)
Date: Sun, 15 Feb 2004 21:46:59 -0500
Subject: SystemWindow editable fields?
In-Reply-To: <00d601c3f42a$fc984ff0$6601a8c0@LightningFlash>
References: <00d601c3f42a$fc984ff0$6601a8c0@LightningFlash>
Message-ID: <6445501C-602A-11D8-85F5-000A95DA60FA@adelphia.net>

When I have systemWindow true 'as palette' I can do anything in either 
the web browser or with in the Rev Standalone app I built.
In fact I am doing it now. I have my REV app open and it is above my 
mail program but I can type this email. Then if I want I can click on 
my rev app and do something there too. If I hit a button in the 
floating window the email app stays on top and the button still works 
BUT if I click in a field in the REV app then it comes to the front.

FWIW

TOm
On Feb 15, 2004, at 8:19 PM, Ken Ray wrote:

>> Are you able in Panther to open a web page in a separate browser and
>> then enter and edit text in a field with the systemWindow
>> property set
>> to true?
>
> Actually, no I can't. I get a beep instead. When Rev is the frontmost
> app, it works; when it's not, it doesn't (or at least not 
> consistently).
> I'll play with a few things and let you know if I find a workaround...
>
>
> Ken Ray
> Sons of Thunder Software
> Email: kray at sonsothunder.com
> Web Site: http://www.sonsothunder.com/
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>
>

Thomas J. McGrath III
SCS
1000 Killarney Dr.
Pittsburgh, PA 15234
412-885-8541


From erikhans08 at yahoo.com  Sun Feb 15 22:56:13 2004
From: erikhans08 at yahoo.com (Erik Hansen)
Date: Sun, 15 Feb 2004 19:56:13 -0800 (PST)
Subject: sounds / MIDI
In-Reply-To: <Pine.GSO.4.33.0402140957310.15517-100000@titan.ecs.fullerton.edu>
Message-ID: <20040216035613.36837.qmail@web61107.mail.yahoo.com>

--- Judy Perry <jperryl at ecs.fullerton.edu> wrote:

> If you use the Shakobox workaround, you  have
> access to the boatload of QT musical 
>instruments.

Shakobox is at http://www.hyperactivesw.com>

> Apple's also got some free sound downloads for
> use with iMovie.


=====
erik at erikhansen.org    http://www.erikhansen.org

__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Finance: Get your refund fast by filing online.
http://taxes.yahoo.com/filing.html

From lists at mangomultimedia.com  Mon Feb 16 00:56:07 2004
From: lists at mangomultimedia.com (Trevor DeVore)
Date: Sun, 15 Feb 2004 22:56:07 -0700
Subject: Will new DB improve Windows icon support?
Message-ID: <D0395703-6044-11D8-8AF3-000A956C462A@mangomultimedia.com>

I guess this question goes out to Monte.  Will the next version of the 
Distribution Builder (that I am eagerly anticipating) support Windows 
icons > 16 colors?


-- 
Trevor DeVore
Blue Mango Multimedia
trevor at mangomultimedia.com


From monte at sweattechnologies.com  Mon Feb 16 01:28:48 2004
From: monte at sweattechnologies.com (Monte Goulding)
Date: Mon, 16 Feb 2004 16:58:48 +1030
Subject: Will new DB improve Windows icon support?
In-Reply-To: <D0395703-6044-11D8-8AF3-000A956C462A@mangomultimedia.com>
Message-ID: <FLEGJBMJADGKMCHIMFOHIEMLEAAA.monte@sweattechnologies.com>


> I guess this question goes out to Monte.  Will the next version of the
> Distribution Builder (that I am eagerly anticipating) support Windows
> icons > 16 colors?

I've let a few things out but only when I needed to to get feedback and with
permission. I'm bound by an NDA so you'll need to wait and see, sorry.

Cheers

Monte


From lists at mangomultimedia.com  Mon Feb 16 01:32:33 2004
From: lists at mangomultimedia.com (Trevor DeVore)
Date: Sun, 15 Feb 2004 23:32:33 -0700
Subject: Will new DB improve Windows icon support?
In-Reply-To: <FLEGJBMJADGKMCHIMFOHIEMLEAAA.monte@sweattechnologies.com>
References: <FLEGJBMJADGKMCHIMFOHIEMLEAAA.monte@sweattechnologies.com>
Message-ID: <E77BE6FA-6049-11D8-8AF3-000A956C462A@mangomultimedia.com>

On Feb 15, 2004, at 11:28 PM, Monte Goulding wrote:

>> I guess this question goes out to Monte.  Will the next version of the
>> Distribution Builder (that I am eagerly anticipating) support Windows
>> icons > 16 colors?
>
> I've let a few things out but only when I needed to to get feedback 
> and with
> permission. I'm bound by an NDA so you'll need to wait and see, sorry.

Quel bummer.  Okay, I will wait patiently :-)

-- 
Trevor DeVore
Blue Mango Multimedia
trevor at mangomultimedia.com


From preid at reidit.demon.co.uk  Mon Feb 16 03:39:51 2004
From: preid at reidit.demon.co.uk (Peter Reid)
Date: Mon, 16 Feb 2004 08:39:51 +0000
Subject: Launching in OS X Problems
In-Reply-To: <000001c3f36d$05f2aa00$6601a8c0@LightningFlash>
References: <000001c3f36d$05f2aa00$6601a8c0@LightningFlash>
Message-ID: <p06020401bc563062827b@[192.168.181.4]>

Thanks Ken.  Your suggestion worked, but it needed a slight change:

     put "open -a" && quote & gWindowsMediaPlayer & \
         quote && quote & gClipFile & quote into tCmd
     get shell(tCmd)

I had to add the " -a" after the open command to ensure the Windows 
Media Player (WMP) opened a file that is currently set to default to 
opening with QuickTime (QT).  Without the "-a" BOTH WMP and QT open 
up! (There was a missing "quote &" as well but I assume this was a 
simple copy&paste slip).

>Use the shell command "open" that you can run through Terminal. The
>basic syntax at the command line is:
>
>   open <pathToApp> <pathToDoc>
>
>So here's the code I used (watch wrapping):
>
>   on mouseUp
>     put "open" && quote & "/Applications/Windows Media Player/Windows
>Media Player.app" & \
>       quote && "/Applications/Windows Media Player/sample.asf" & quote
>into tCmd
>     get shell(tCmd)
>   end mouseUp
>
>Works like a charm...
>
>Ken Ray

-- 
Peter Reid
Reid-IT Limited, Loughborough, Leics., UK
Tel: +44 (0)1509 268843 Fax: +44 (0)8700 527576
E-mail: preid at reidit.co.uk
         preid at reidit.demon.co.uk
         peter.reidit at ntlworld.com
Web: http://www.reidit.co.uk
      http://www.reidit.demon.co.uk

From doug at webcrossing.com  Mon Feb 16 04:18:49 2004
From: doug at webcrossing.com (Doug Lerner)
Date: Mon, 16 Feb 2004 18:18:49 +0900
Subject: open file & read from file vs get URL
Message-ID: <BC56BA09.26EE1%doug@webcrossing.com>

I have been using open file and read from file. The docs, however, note:

"As an alternative to the open file, read from file, and write to file
commands, you can also use the URL keyword with get, put, and other commands
to access the contents of a file."

Is there an advantage to one method over the other?

doug


From bvg at mac.com  Mon Feb 16 08:17:37 2004
From: bvg at mac.com (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Bj=F6rnke_von_Gierke?=)
Date: Mon, 16 Feb 2004 14:17:37 +0100
Subject: open file & read from file vs get URL
In-Reply-To: <BC56BA09.26EE1%doug@webcrossing.com>
Message-ID: <7D60C92E-6082-11D8-9D5A-003065AD94A4@mac.com>

URL is simpler to use, as you don't need to care about mode or closing 
the file again. This it is far simpler and more comfortable to use.
Examples:
put "another line" & return before URL "file:file/path/here/file.txt"
put empty into URL "file:textfile.txt"
get word 1 of line 2 of URL "file:source.txt"

The read-, open- and write-file commands don't put the whole file into 
memory, so if your file's are huge, then that is an advantage (In so 
far as I reckon that is the only advantage of these over URL)

On Montag, Feb 16, 2004, at 10:18 Europe/Zurich, Doug Lerner wrote:

> I have been using open file and read from file. The docs, however, 
> note:
>
> "As an alternative to the open file, read from file, and write to file
> commands, you can also use the URL keyword with get, put, and other 
> commands
> to access the contents of a file."
>
> Is there an advantage to one method over the other?
>
> doug
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>


From doug at webcrossing.com  Mon Feb 16 08:42:38 2004
From: doug at webcrossing.com (Doug Lerner)
Date: Mon, 16 Feb 2004 22:42:38 +0900
Subject: open file & read from file vs get URL
In-Reply-To: <7D60C92E-6082-11D8-9D5A-003065AD94A4@mac.com>
Message-ID: <BC56F7DE.26F31%doug@webcrossing.com>

I see. That is helpful. Thanks.

doug

On 2/16/04 10:17 PM, "Bj?rnke von Gierke" <bvg at mac.com> wrote:

> URL is simpler to use, as you don't need to care about mode or closing
> the file again. This it is far simpler and more comfortable to use.
> Examples:
> put "another line" & return before URL "file:file/path/here/file.txt"
> put empty into URL "file:textfile.txt"
> get word 1 of line 2 of URL "file:source.txt"
> 
> The read-, open- and write-file commands don't put the whole file into
> memory, so if your file's are huge, then that is an advantage (In so
> far as I reckon that is the only advantage of these over URL)
> 
> On Montag, Feb 16, 2004, at 10:18 Europe/Zurich, Doug Lerner wrote:
> 
>> I have been using open file and read from file. The docs, however,
>> note:
>> 
>> "As an alternative to the open file, read from file, and write to file
>> commands, you can also use the URL keyword with get, put, and other
>> commands
>> to access the contents of a file."
>> 
>> Is there an advantage to one method over the other?
>> 
>> doug
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> use-revolution mailing list
>> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution


From mcdomi at free.fr  Mon Feb 16 09:09:20 2004
From: mcdomi at free.fr (Dom)
Date: Mon, 16 Feb 2004 15:09:20 +0100
Subject: Launching in OS X Problems
In-Reply-To: <p06020401bc563062827b@[192.168.181.4]>
Message-ID: <1g9988t.1nq6fqffi9wgeM%mcdomi@free.fr>

Peter Reid <preid at reidit.demon.co.uk> wrote:

> I had to add the " -a" after the open command to ensure the Windows 
> Media Player (WMP) opened a file that is currently set to default to 
> opening with QuickTime (QT).  Without the "-a" BOTH WMP and QT open 
> up! (There was a missing "quote &" as well but I assume this was a 
> simple copy&paste slip).

I tried that me too... telling Tex-Edit Plus to open a .txt file.
Surprisingly, the file was opened by... TextEdit, not Tex-Edit ;-)
I was not able to see the "double-launching", because TE+ was already
opened.

I tried to do that in the Terminal -- which one didn't like at all the
fancy "opt-f" mark of the TE+ folder ;->

More surprisingly (? I am NOT of the Unix command line ;-))
the "open filepath" alone worked.

With the "open -a" syntax, TE+ opened the chosen text file.

-- 
Vous parlez fran?ais ? faites un tour sur le groupe francophone !
revolutionfr-subscribe at yahoogroupes.fr
Jetez un oeil sur RevoBlog <http://revoblog.free.fr> !

From chipp at altuit.com  Fri Feb  6 21:42:11 2004
From: chipp at altuit.com (Chipp Walters)
Date: Fri, 6 Feb 2004 20:42:11 -0600
Subject: Windows Application Icon
In-Reply-To: <A514EF58-58F5-11D8-8ED1-000A95859272@earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <OOEILOHDALDBNFBEKCMLAEIGCBAA.chipp@altuit.com>

Mark,

Did you follow the tutorial at:
http://www.altuit.com/webs/altuit2/RunRev/Tutorials.htm

??

-Chipp

Hi,

I searched the entire archive and followed all the advice. While trying 
to build a standalone including every windows created 32 X 32, 16 
color, 766, gray scale or colored icon the builder says that I need to 
use a 25064 sized file, 16 color.

Just to see if this is even possible could someone send me any icon 
that I could attempt to build a standalone with just to prove it is 
possible. I've spent all day on this with no luck.

Thanks for any help,

Mark

_______________________________________________
use-revolution mailing list
use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution

From claude.lemmel at wanadoo.fr  Mon Feb  9 05:34:59 2004
From: claude.lemmel at wanadoo.fr (claude.lemmel at wanadoo.fr)
Date: Mon, 09 Feb 2004 11:34:59 +0100
Subject: Transcript and/or ECMA
Message-ID: <opr23mclb0otsgr3@smtp.wanadoo.fr>

From: Pierre Sahores <psahores at easynet.fr>

> Agreed ! The English-like syntax of Transcript seem me to be one of the 
> main parts of the XTalk paradigm : As long as Rev will support this VHLL 
> feature, we will stay able to code transcript handlers, even without 
> running computers : i like to feel me free to "think and code" cool 
> handlers in the railroad or, even, in driving my car from home to the 
> office... I can't, for my own, do, with the same success, such kind of 
> things in using Rebol, PHP, Javascript or Java...
>  Bien cordialement, Pierre Sahores

I fully agree that for trained xtalk writers the english-like syntax of 
Transcript is an advantage.

As and old HyperCarder, Transcript is very fine for me too.

But if Revolution want to access to a biggest market share, you must 
consider that 98% of people trained to programming are trained to "ECMA" 
style langages.

Macromedia understood that and the next version of Director will support 
both the Lingo syntax (very xTalk like) and the ECMA (= 
javascript/actionscript)syntax.
Note the fact that ECMA syntax is not a proprietary syntax ; it is an open 
standard maintained by the European Computer Manufacturer Association.

If Revolution can speak the same langage as JavaScript, Flash (and 
tomorrow Director) that can help thousands of programmer to test it and to 
adopt it.

Claude

From chipp at altuit.com  Mon Feb  9 15:15:43 2004
From: chipp at altuit.com (Chipp Walters)
Date: Mon, 9 Feb 2004 14:15:43 -0600
Subject: mission critical apps; was Re: cross platform ide
In-Reply-To: <BCDEEB0B-5B1F-11D8-9773-000393C4760A@mindlube.com>
Message-ID: <OOEILOHDALDBNFBEKCMLAEACCCAA.chipp@altuit.com>

Alex,

My first mission critical app was written in SuperCard! It was a Jumbotron
display controller for the NBA called "JIVES" and it controlled the big
screen TV's for NBA teams. As many advertisers use the Jumbotron, $$$ were
at stake if it didn't work properly. In over 5 years of use, to my
knowledge, it only malfunctioned 1 time during a game (actually pre-game and
it was due to a bug I accidently left in on a new build).

Talking with my C programmer partner Chris, he mentioned that the same
messaging path problems are found in Delphi and VB as well with variants of
C including C#. So, how does MS and Borland sell their products into mission
critical enterprise environments?

If you can believe it, the thing ran on a Mac -- and still didn't crash.

He also stated the big problem with message paths is when the message chain
gets full and then things get lost. He suggested that RR programs can be
written to be 'procedural-like' (see mc.cgi's for instance) which would
cut-down on the possibilities of message chain problems.

> > But, salesmen come in all forms. I would suggest a different tact: Use
> > RR to
> > prototype the mission critical tool.
>
> Don't appeal to programmer productivity. I already know runrev is the
> most productive tool for me. That's not the issue. I asked: "How are
> you going to sell xtalks in a corporate environment where reliability
> and correctness is _more important than programmer productivity_ ?"

You missed the point...it's *not about productivity*, but rather the
prototyping value of RunRev, which it is not necessary to be mission
critical safe. The point is use RR to PROTOTYPE. You asked how to sell
xTalks in corporate environments. Sell it as a PROTOTYPE tool.

> > All of that being said, I am currently working on 3 Enterprise class RR
> > applications. I did them all by prototyping and convincing the
> > management
> > they can save LOTS of $$$ by letting us develop in RR vs VB or C. So
> > far,
> > it's worked.
>
> Great! Are they mission critical? (my definition = $, property or
> safety is at stake)

Well, the Homeland Security App has the safety of data at stake. Hemingway
has the safety of an individuals website at stake -- along with the possible
loss of revenue from a website being down/hacked. The last product is a
realestate web application, with similar concerns.

best,

Chipp


From bvg at mac.com  Mon Feb 16 11:22:03 2004
From: bvg at mac.com (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Bj=F6rnke_von_Gierke?=)
Date: Mon, 16 Feb 2004 17:22:03 +0100
Subject: How to "do" this
Message-ID: <41538604-609C-11D8-9D5A-003065AD94A4@mac.com>

I want to loop over each object where as the object can be specified by 
the user is there a way to get this working? The problem is that the 
repeat loop does not understand this part, which should evaluate to 
"Fields":  (theO & "s")

on mouseDown
   --Button "Object" = Field
   put the label of Button "Object" into theO
   --button "stack name" = the name of a open stack
   put the label of button "Stack name" into theS
   repeat with x = 1 to the number of (theO && "s") in stack theS
     do "put" && theO && x && "of stack" && quote & theS & quote && "& 
return after me"
   end repeat
end mouseDown


From jbv.silences at Club-Internet.fr  Mon Feb 16 11:26:31 2004
From: jbv.silences at Club-Internet.fr (jbv)
Date: Mon, 16 Feb 2004 17:26:31 +0100
Subject: How to "do" this
References: <41538604-609C-11D8-9D5A-003065AD94A4@mac.com>
Message-ID: <4030EF2C.4C117379@Club-Internet.fr>


At first glance, it looks like you should add space chars in the
expression that is supposed to be evaluated by the "do" cmd :

do "put " && theO && " " && x && " of stack "  ... etc

JB

> I want to loop over each object where as the object can be specified by
> the user is there a way to get this working? The problem is that the
> repeat loop does not understand this part, which should evaluate to
> "Fields":  (theO & "s")
>
> on mouseDown
>    --Button "Object" = Field
>    put the label of Button "Object" into theO
>    --button "stack name" = the name of a open stack
>    put the label of button "Stack name" into theS
>    repeat with x = 1 to the number of (theO && "s") in stack theS
>      do "put" && theO && x && "of stack" && quote & theS & quote && "&
> return after me"
>    end repeat
> end mouseDown
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution


From devin_asay at byu.edu  Mon Feb 16 11:33:46 2004
From: devin_asay at byu.edu (Devin Asay)
Date: Mon, 16 Feb 2004 09:33:46 -0700
Subject: Set browser "helper" app
In-Reply-To: <20040214050310.6B5D593049C@mail.runrev.com>
References: <20040214050310.6B5D593049C@mail.runrev.com>
Message-ID: <E44F520D-609D-11D8-B29D-000A95A6A138@byu.edu>

Thanks, Richard and others.

Can you tell me what the mime type is for Safari? Something like 
application/x-rev?

By the way, who decides the official mime type designation? Who 
decided, for example, that the mime type for MS Excel documents is 
application/vnd.ms-excel? Is there a registry somewhere, or do they 
just "evolve" into a standard?

The topic of creating web-enabled apps in Rev is of great interest to 
me right now; I'm going to give a conference presentation later this 
year on Internet-enabled applications at a Symposium of foreign 
language educators. The working title is "The Browser is Dead; Long 
Live the Web". Of course I am going to be talking about how easy it is 
to create web-savvy apps in Revolution. I have read Richard Gaskin's 
excellent article on the subject, and I would welcome anyone's input 
who has experience/ideas on this topic.

Devin

On Feb 13, 2004, at 10:03 PM, Richard Gaskin wrote:

> Devin Asay wrote:
>
>> Does anyone know how to set the most commonly-used browsers in OS X to
>> automatically launch a rev stack (with Rev or some compiled Rev
>> launcher app) when it is clicked on in a web page? I want to be able 
>> to
>> have a user click on a stack link in my web page and have it launch,
>> instead of merely download or even try to show the contents in the web
>> page. Like happens when you click on a pdf link.
>
> You can do this by adding the appropriate MIME type in the prefs for 
> any
> browser -- except Apple's Safari. :(
>
> I use Mozilla and I just launched stack files from my Web site.  :(
>
> Th MIME types are there somewhere, only it seems Apple didn't provide 
> an
> interface for editing them. There must be a way to hack this very basic
> functionality -- anyone know how?  :\
>
>
Devin Asay
Humanities Technology and Research Support Center
Brigham Young University


From joshua at macmedicsmadison.com  Mon Feb 16 11:41:14 2004
From: joshua at macmedicsmadison.com (Joshua Snyder)
Date: Mon, 16 Feb 2004 10:41:14 -0600
Subject: Maximum Object ID?
Message-ID: <EF2E6E5E-609E-11D8-9BEF-000A95D9A2B6@macmedicsmadison.com>

How big is the object ID property?

How many objects until the ID starts to wrap around?


Lat night at a code review, we were astonished to see object ID's in 
the Application Browser of 150,000 and more.




Josh





----------------------- - - - - - - - - - - -------------------------
                             Mac Medics
                    Consulting and Macintosh Repair
               Joshua Snyder, Consultant & Technician
         433 Grand Canyon Drive, Suite 101  Madison, WI 53719
                Voice: 608-829-0304  Fax: 608-829-3839
                  Email: joshua at macmedicsmadison.com
----------------------- - - - - - - - - - - -------------------------


From devin_asay at byu.edu  Mon Feb 16 11:47:35 2004
From: devin_asay at byu.edu (Devin Asay)
Date: Mon, 16 Feb 2004 09:47:35 -0700
Subject: Set browser "helper" app
In-Reply-To: <20040214180702.9ED8A9301B3@mail.runrev.com>
References: <20040214180702.9ED8A9301B3@mail.runrev.com>
Message-ID: <D24C8260-609F-11D8-B29D-000A95A6A138@byu.edu>

I'm also the admin for our dept web server (an Xserve). I'll try your 
suggestion about modifying the .htaccess file and let you know what 
happens.

Devin

On Feb 14, 2004, at 11:07 AM, Richard Gaskin wrote:

> There are two ways to solve this challenge of browser/helper 
> interaction:
> adding a MIME type for .rev, and adding a custom helper app protocol.
>
>
> Launching Stack Files
> ---------------------
> Adding a MIME type seems to involve:
>
> - On the server, adding the type to your server's .htaccess file.
> - On the client:
>     Win: Adding a couple registry entries (can be done with Rev)
>     Mac: Adding a MIME type in your app's plist
>
> I haven't yet had time to follow through on testing these, but I can't 
> think
> of any other required steps -- anyone know if I've missed one? I've
> submitted a request to add "application/x-revolution rev" to my 
> server's
> .htaccess, so I can test once I finish up some client work.
>
Devin Asay
Humanities Technology and Research Support Center
Brigham Young University


From kray at sonsothunder.com  Mon Feb 16 11:48:51 2004
From: kray at sonsothunder.com (Ken Ray)
Date: Mon, 16 Feb 2004 10:48:51 -0600
Subject: Maximum Object ID?
In-Reply-To: <EF2E6E5E-609E-11D8-9BEF-000A95D9A2B6@macmedicsmadison.com>
Message-ID: <018501c3f4ac$c59a4580$6601a8c0@LightningFlash>

I don't know if there is one, but according the MetaCard documentation,
the number of objects in a stack maxes out at 4,294,967,295.

:-)

Ken Ray
Sons of Thunder Software
Email: kray at sonsothunder.com
Web Site: http://www.sonsothunder.com/ 

> -----Original Message-----
> From: use-revolution-bounces at lists.runrev.com 
> [mailto:use-revolution-bounces at lists.runrev.com] On Behalf Of 
> Joshua Snyder
> Sent: Monday, February 16, 2004 10:41 AM
> To: How to use Revolution
> Subject: Maximum Object ID?
> 
> 
> How big is the object ID property?
> 
> How many objects until the ID starts to wrap around?
> 
> 
> Lat night at a code review, we were astonished to see object ID's in 
> the Application Browser of 150,000 and more.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Josh
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ----------------------- - - - - - - - - - - -------------------------
>                              Mac Medics
>                     Consulting and Macintosh Repair
>                Joshua Snyder, Consultant & Technician
>          433 Grand Canyon Drive, Suite 101  Madison, WI 53719
>                 Voice: 608-829-0304  Fax: 608-829-3839
>                   Email: joshua at macmedicsmadison.com
> ----------------------- - - - - - - - - - - -------------------------
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com 
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-> revolution
> 



From klaus at major-k.de  Mon Feb 16 11:53:33 2004
From: klaus at major-k.de (Klaus Major)
Date: Mon, 16 Feb 2004 17:53:33 +0100
Subject: Maximum Object ID?
In-Reply-To: <EF2E6E5E-609E-11D8-9BEF-000A95D9A2B6@macmedicsmadison.com>
References: <EF2E6E5E-609E-11D8-9BEF-000A95D9A2B6@macmedicsmadison.com>
Message-ID: <A7FCD5FC-60A0-11D8-A6B3-000A27B49A96@major-k.de>

Hi Joshua,

> How big is the object ID property?
> How many objects until the ID starts to wrap around?
> Lat night at a code review, we were astonished to see object
> ID's in the Application Browser of 150,000 and more.

i am noot sure, but since "the number of objects in a stack" =
uint4 (32 bits/4 GB!), the limit for IDs should be the same...

Looks like we have to be VERY busy to reach these limits :-)

Hope that helps...

> Josh

Regards

Klaus Major
klaus at major-k.de
www.major-k.de


From dsc at swcp.com  Mon Feb 16 12:21:20 2004
From: dsc at swcp.com (Dar Scott)
Date: Mon, 16 Feb 2004 10:21:20 -0700
Subject: How to "do" this
In-Reply-To: <41538604-609C-11D8-9D5A-003065AD94A4@mac.com>
Message-ID: <895D334D-60A4-11D8-A69F-000A9567A3E6@swcp.com>


On Monday, February 16, 2004, at 09:22 AM, Bj?rnke von Gierke wrote:

>   repeat with x = 1 to the number of (theO && "s") in stack theS

Is (theO && "s") intended to evaluate something like "fields"?  Then 
you have a typo.  You need & instead of &&.

I didn't realize that <objectType> could be an expression here.  There 
is so much I don't know about object detailed syntax.  Especially when 
it comes to runtime evaluation and quoted strings.

Dar Scott



From gizmotron at earthlink.net  Mon Feb 16 12:26:41 2004
From: gizmotron at earthlink.net (Mark Brownell)
Date: Mon, 16 Feb 2004 09:26:41 -0800
Subject: Windows Application Icon
In-Reply-To: <OOEILOHDALDBNFBEKCMLAEIGCBAA.chipp@altuit.com>
Message-ID: <490A3EAA-60A5-11D8-81D0-000A95859272@earthlink.net>


On Friday, February 6, 2004, at 06:42  PM, Chipp Walters wrote:

> Mark,
>
> Did you follow the tutorial at:
> http://www.altuit.com/webs/altuit2/RunRev/Tutorials.htm
>
> ??
>
> -Chipp
>

Yes I finally got most of it to work. I looked at what was getting 
added with regEdit and I'm still having problems getting the document 
icon to associate with newly created documents. I forced an association 
with folder tools available on Windows XP Pro. I just need an automatic 
way to do this so the user does not have to force an association.

Mark


From b.xavier at internet.lu  Mon Feb 16 13:30:12 2004
From: b.xavier at internet.lu (MisterX)
Date: Mon, 16 Feb 2004 19:30:12 +0100
Subject: Major bug warning
In-Reply-To: <490A3EAA-60A5-11D8-81D0-000A95859272@earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <ENEALNOCJBOOOHHCCEKNEEENFNAA.b.xavier@internet.lu>

While in pointer mode, editing a fields text 

If you select all (like you imagine when you're editing text in a field)

do not do like me...

Select all, delete blindly!

For once... the undo works - RR, Good job! 

BUT... <bug here>

The object's layer order was mixed in the undo!

Worse, the field whose text I was trying to delete was in a group.
This group was completely desintegrated (all objects now out of the 
group and the group left resized to nearly nill (if it wasn't for
the showname... maybe it would have been completely gone!

Talk about subspacial abnormalities!

--

I entered the bugzilla - hit "my bugs"
and zaroo! Something I missed?

Release 1.4 of the discrete browser delayed not so discretely


From briany at qldlearning.com  Mon Feb 16 13:30:01 2004
From: briany at qldlearning.com (Brian Yennie)
Date: Mon, 16 Feb 2004 13:30:01 -0500
Subject: Major bug warning
In-Reply-To: <ENEALNOCJBOOOHHCCEKNEEENFNAA.b.xavier@internet.lu>
Message-ID: <2191CB3C-60AE-11D8-BBCC-000393AA08D2@qldlearning.com>

A thought:

How about a preference in the IDE to display a warning dialog before 
deleting objects?

- Brian

> While in pointer mode, editing a fields text
>
> If you select all (like you imagine when you're editing text in a 
> field)
>
> do not do like me...
>
> Select all, delete blindly!
>
> For once... the undo works - RR, Good job!
>
> BUT... <bug here>
>
> The object's layer order was mixed in the undo!
>
> Worse, the field whose text I was trying to delete was in a group.
> This group was completely desintegrated (all objects now out of the
> group and the group left resized to nearly nill (if it wasn't for
> the showname... maybe it would have been completely gone!
>
> Talk about subspacial abnormalities!
>
> --
>
> I entered the bugzilla - hit "my bugs"
> and zaroo! Something I missed?
>
> Release 1.4 of the discrete browser delayed not so discretely
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>
>


From dsc at swcp.com  Mon Feb 16 13:43:58 2004
From: dsc at swcp.com (Dar Scott)
Date: Mon, 16 Feb 2004 11:43:58 -0700
Subject: Major bug warning
In-Reply-To: <ENEALNOCJBOOOHHCCEKNEEENFNAA.b.xavier@internet.lu>
Message-ID: <14803D5A-60B0-11D8-A69F-000A9567A3E6@swcp.com>


On Monday, February 16, 2004, at 11:30 AM, MisterX wrote:

> While in pointer mode, editing a fields text

In the Contents pane?

>
> If you select all (like you imagine when you're editing text in a 
> field)
>
> do not do like me...
>
> Select all, delete blindly!
>
> For once... the undo works - RR, Good job!
>
> BUT... <bug here>
>
> The object's layer order was mixed in the undo!

Not major, in my mind.

> Worse, the field whose text I was trying to delete was in a group.
> This group was completely desintegrated (all objects now out of the
> group and the group left resized to nearly nill (if it wasn't for
> the showname... maybe it would have been completely gone!

Ick.  How did you fix it?

Dar Scott


From dsc at swcp.com  Mon Feb 16 14:30:38 2004
From: dsc at swcp.com (Dar Scott)
Date: Mon, 16 Feb 2004 12:30:38 -0700
Subject: Style:  Select Grouped Controls
Message-ID: <99E21F0A-60B6-11D8-A69F-000A9567A3E6@swcp.com>

I am more than just curious; this might affect how I deliver custom 
controls.  It is certainly not my intent to start any religious wars.  
We seem to have different ways of getting things done; I'd like to 
learn from that of others.

I wonder how folks use "Select Grouped Controls".  Some possible 
answers:

   [ ] Never.  It shouldn't even be on the tool bar.
   [ ] Only in special cases and then turn it off.
   [ ] By default.
   [ ] Always, of course.
   [ ] Is this why I keep accidently messing up my group contents?
   [ ] What's a group?

Dar Scott


From ambassador at fourthworld.com  Mon Feb 16 14:44:52 2004
From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin)
Date: Mon, 16 Feb 2004 11:44:52 -0800
Subject: Style:  Select Grouped Controls
In-Reply-To: <99E21F0A-60B6-11D8-A69F-000A9567A3E6@swcp.com>
Message-ID: <BC565DB4.3D827%ambassador@fourthworld.com>

Dar Scott wrote:

> I am more than just curious; this might affect how I deliver custom
> controls.  It is certainly not my intent to start any religious wars.
> We seem to have different ways of getting things done; I'd like to
> learn from that of others.
> 
> I wonder how folks use "Select Grouped Controls".  Some possible
> answers:
> 
> [ ] Never.  It shouldn't even be on the tool bar.
> [ ] Only in special cases and then turn it off.
> [ ] By default.
> [ ] Always, of course.
> [ ] Is this why I keep accidently messing up my group contents?
> [ ] What's a group?

  [X] I use it like the Subselect tool in many drawing programs like
      Fireworks, LiveMotion, etc., turning it on and off as needed.

In a drawing environment I'm building for a client I've added a tool in the
tool palette for subselect, which is simply the pointer tool with the
selectGroupedControls set to true.

I wonder if others would pick it up faster if it was acessed as a standard
subselect tool from the tool palette.  There's even an empty space as though
waiting for such an addition. :)

-- 
 Richard Gaskin 
 Fourth World Media Corporation
 Developer of WebMerge: Publish any database on any Web site
 ___________________________________________________________
 Ambassador at FourthWorld.com       http://www.FourthWorld.com


From dsc at swcp.com  Mon Feb 16 14:53:30 2004
From: dsc at swcp.com (Dar Scott)
Date: Mon, 16 Feb 2004 12:53:30 -0700
Subject: Style:  Select Grouped Controls
In-Reply-To: <BC565DB4.3D827%ambassador@fourthworld.com>
Message-ID: <CBA54693-60B9-11D8-A69F-000A9567A3E6@swcp.com>


On Monday, February 16, 2004, at 12:44 PM, Richard Gaskin wrote:
>   [X] I use it like the Subselect tool in many drawing programs like
>       Fireworks, LiveMotion, etc., turning it on and off as needed.

My answer:

           [X] Only in rare alignment cases.

This is a special case of this:

   [X] Only in special cases and then turn it off.

... not the same as Richard's special case, I think.  I normally Edit 
Group.

Dar Scott




From b.xavier at internet.lu  Mon Feb 16 15:07:07 2004
From: b.xavier at internet.lu (MisterX)
Date: Mon, 16 Feb 2004 21:07:07 +0100
Subject: Rel: Discrete Browser 1.3 - the borg release
In-Reply-To: <E44F520D-609D-11D8-B29D-000A95A6A138@byu.edu>
Message-ID: <ENEALNOCJBOOOHHCCEKNEEEOFNAA.b.xavier@internet.lu>

A new version of the Discrete Browser is here under the mango tree
(aaah, the inspiring sounds that drives this developper)!

http://monsieurx.com/modules.php?name=Downloads&d_op=getit&lid=44
Im still looking to scratch the guest can't download feature...
Enjoy the stories, the sounds, the views! Enjoy your login and
downloads, no popups or ads or banners or lame stories! ;)

;)

So discrete is this small project that version 1.2 was this
morning, 1.3 is here for the evening... V1.5 is a big paste
job from XOS so hold your breath coz im integrating a zillion
features at once ;).

At the rate im adding features, it's gonna blow
any browser you know! It may not have the most
html-standard-respecting display but it will not
loose one byte about what you download!

A few novelties since last 1.0 mention are:

- Google search (and many more to come)
- wiki linkclicked support (other cgi's to be tested)
- Added smart url guessing (monsieurx = www.monsieurx.com)
- Added eventual failsafe for ftp links (ftp not really supported)
- Finished the Favorites menu (delete with controlkey down, shiftkey
reserved)
- Fixed the source so that it displays the page instead of the
  filtered html, and also smarter format displays (many more to come)

To disperse some rumors that Im rebuilding yet another browser...
or just another dumb browser... XOS GUI is coming...

-

If you want to pitch in, I'll send you the feature dev plan or
come and chat @ monsieurx.com! Hit that "SPChat" module!
http://monsieurx.com/modules.php?name=SPChat



From rodney at oceanbrowser.com  Mon Feb 16 14:56:42 2004
From: rodney at oceanbrowser.com (Rodney Tamblyn)
Date: Tue, 17 Feb 2004 08:56:42 +1300
Subject: OceanBrowser 1.0 - call for beta testers
Message-ID: <3D9FB406-60BA-11D8-912E-003065F97100@oceanbrowser.com>

Hi everyone,

I am completing development of a new application called OceanBrowser, 
which I am planning to release in four weeks.  I would be interested in 
recruiting a small group of beta testers to participate in late stage 
testing of this product.

OceanBrowser 1.0 will be available for OSX and Windows operating 
systems.  A later release will add OS9 support.  I do not plan at this 
stage to support Linux.

OceanBrowser integrates with your web browser, such that links in web 
pages when clicked will open content in OceanBrowser.  OceanBrowser 
allows users to browse collections of data distributed in the form of 
((encrypted) database files.  Content can be displayed in OceanBrowser 
itself, in external applications on the user's computer, or in the case 
of web-content, the web browser itself. It is targeted at distance 
learning providers who want to deliver learning content via the 
internet, but who require a more immersive multimedia environment than 
is typically possible within a conventional web browser.

OceanBrowser supports opening of Revolution stacks, however I am 
currently still working through the issues surrounding trust and 
security.  At present it will only directly open stacks which are 
distributed in the (encrypted, signed) database files, are situated in 
a "trusted" directory on the user's hard disk, or which are hosted on a 
trusted domain such as http://www.oceanbrowser.com

If you are interested in participating in the beta program, please 
email me back stating your interest in participating.  If I don't 
already know you, I'd also be interested in a little background 
information on why you would like to be involved in testing.

  I am particularly interested in beta participants who:
- are using Windows platforms other than Windows XP (nearly all my 
current users are using XP, although more XP testers would still be 
welcome)
- have an interest in, or experience with online learning
- have an interest in or experience with human computer interaction and 
design issues

Beta testing will start in about a weeks time.

Regards,

~ Rodney

  --
Rodney Tamblyn
44 Melville Street
Dunedin
New Zealand
+64 3 4778606
http://rodney.weblogs.com/


From bvg at mac.com  Mon Feb 16 15:20:46 2004
From: bvg at mac.com (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Bj=F6rnke_von_Gierke?=)
Date: Mon, 16 Feb 2004 21:20:46 +0100
Subject: Style:  Select Grouped Controls
In-Reply-To: <99E21F0A-60B6-11D8-A69F-000A9567A3E6@swcp.com>
Message-ID: <9A8FA632-60BD-11D8-9D5A-003065AD94A4@mac.com>

I normally leave it on, until I need to move a group, in which case I 
also need to dive into the property inspector to deselect lockLoc. 
Afterwards I have to undo all that again... kinda tedious when you 
think about it.

On Montag, Feb 16, 2004, at 20:30 Europe/Zurich, Dar Scott wrote:

> I am more than just curious; this might affect how I deliver custom 
> controls.  It is certainly not my intent to start any religious wars.  
> We seem to have different ways of getting things done; I'd like to 
> learn from that of others.
>
> I wonder how folks use "Select Grouped Controls".  Some possible 
> answers:
>
>   [ ] Never.  It shouldn't even be on the tool bar.
>   [ ] Only in special cases and then turn it off.
>   [ ] By default.
>   [ ] Always, of course.
>   [ ] Is this why I keep accidently messing up my group contents?
>   [ ] What's a group?
>
> Dar Scott
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>


From bvg at mac.com  Mon Feb 16 15:22:38 2004
From: bvg at mac.com (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Bj=F6rnke_von_Gierke?=)
Date: Mon, 16 Feb 2004 21:22:38 +0100
Subject: How to "do" this
In-Reply-To: <895D334D-60A4-11D8-A69F-000A9567A3E6@swcp.com>
Message-ID: <DD31228E-60BD-11D8-9D5A-003065AD94A4@mac.com>


On Montag, Feb 16, 2004, at 18:21 Europe/Zurich, Dar Scott wrote:

>
> On Monday, February 16, 2004, at 09:22 AM, Bj?rnke von Gierke wrote:
>
>>   repeat with x = 1 to the number of (theO && "s") in stack theS
>
> Is (theO && "s") intended to evaluate something like "fields"?  Then 
> you have a typo.  You need & instead of &&.

Oh yes i saw that, but it does not help :(

>
> I didn't realize that <objectType> could be an expression here.

well maybe that is why it does not work... I probably have to make a 
switch and do the repeat for each object type separately...

> There is so much I don't know about object detailed syntax.  
> Especially when it comes to runtime evaluation and quoted strings.

Same here


From jacque at hyperactivesw.com  Mon Feb 16 15:50:39 2004
From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay)
Date: Mon, 16 Feb 2004 14:50:39 -0600
Subject: Style:  Select Grouped Controls
In-Reply-To: <99E21F0A-60B6-11D8-A69F-000A9567A3E6@swcp.com>
References: <99E21F0A-60B6-11D8-A69F-000A9567A3E6@swcp.com>
Message-ID: <40312D1F.8090009@hyperactivesw.com>

On 2/16/04 1:30 PM, Dar Scott wrote:

> I am more than just curious; this might affect how I deliver custom 
> controls.  It is certainly not my intent to start any religious wars.  
> We seem to have different ways of getting things done; I'd like to learn 
> from that of others.
> 
> I wonder how folks use "Select Grouped Controls".  Some possible answers:
> 
>   [ ] Never.  It shouldn't even be on the tool bar.
>   [ ] Only in special cases and then turn it off.
>   [ ] By default.
>   [ ] Always, of course.
>   [ ] Is this why I keep accidently messing up my group contents?
>   [ ] What's a group?
> 

LOL! I love your quizzes.

I virtually always leave selectGroupedControls turned on. There are 
very, very rare occasions when I want to change the settings of an 
entire group, at which time I turn it off. But mostly, leaving it on is 
the default setting for me.

-- 
Jacqueline Landman Gay         |     jacque at hyperactivesw.com
HyperActive Software           |     http://www.hyperactivesw.com

From dsc at swcp.com  Mon Feb 16 16:30:52 2004
From: dsc at swcp.com (Dar Scott)
Date: Mon, 16 Feb 2004 14:30:52 -0700
Subject: Style:  Select Grouped Controls
In-Reply-To: <9A8FA632-60BD-11D8-9D5A-003065AD94A4@mac.com>
Message-ID: <65466EE6-60C7-11D8-A69F-000A9567A3E6@swcp.com>


On Monday, February 16, 2004, at 01:20 PM, Bj?rnke von Gierke wrote:

>
> I normally leave it on, until I need to move a group, in which case I 
> also need to dive into the property inspector to deselect lockLoc. 
> Afterwards I have to undo all that again... kinda tedious when you 
> think about it.

Yes.  It seems lockLoc is trying to do too many things.

I would like to turn on some of those behaviors without locking the 
location.  For my style of laving selectGroupedControls off, I want to 
grab the group and put it where I want it, regardless of what other 
features it has.

Dar Scott


From sarahr at genesearch.com.au  Mon Feb 16 18:52:02 2004
From: sarahr at genesearch.com.au (Sarah Reichelt)
Date: Tue, 17 Feb 2004 09:52:02 +1000
Subject: Mindstorms and Revolution.
In-Reply-To: <98ED739A-5E31-11D8-9682-0003936D012E@mac.com>
References: <5C322FDC-5DF7-11D8-B830-000A9567A3E6@swcp.com>
	<98ED739A-5E31-11D8-9682-0003936D012E@mac.com>
Message-ID: <1E2DE5D3-60DB-11D8-A661-0003937A97B8@genesearch.com.au>

> I have a mindstorms set here, I once created my own scheme interpreter 
> to fiddle with it. It was very very fun! although Scheme was not R5RS 
> compliant and not all RCX features were implemented it showed that the 
> task is easy.
>
> I never tried serial communication with Rev, but if there's a way to 
> do simple serial communication then you can control your RCX.

There is a serial test stack at my web page that allows serial 
communications using Macs (OS 9 or X) and Windows. It is very simple 
and just opens a port using the specified parameters and allows you to 
send a string, reading any incoming data from the serial port.

I'll have to download the Mindstorm specs and try it with my Lego set.

Cheers,
Sarah
sarahr at genesearch.com.au
http://www.troz.net/Rev/


From sarahr at genesearch.com.au  Mon Feb 16 19:49:33 2004
From: sarahr at genesearch.com.au (Sarah Reichelt)
Date: Tue, 17 Feb 2004 10:49:33 +1000
Subject: Style:  Select Grouped Controls
In-Reply-To: <99E21F0A-60B6-11D8-A69F-000A9567A3E6@swcp.com>
References: <99E21F0A-60B6-11D8-A69F-000A9567A3E6@swcp.com>
Message-ID: <26BA1F9A-60E3-11D8-A661-0003937A97B8@genesearch.com.au>

> I am more than just curious; this might affect how I deliver custom 
> controls.  It is certainly not my intent to start any religious wars.  
> We seem to have different ways of getting things done; I'd like to 
> learn from that of others.
>
> I wonder how folks use "Select Grouped Controls".  Some possible 
> answers:
>
>   [ ] Never.  It shouldn't even be on the tool bar.
>   [ ] Only in special cases and then turn it off.
>   [ ] By default.
>   [ ] Always, of course.
>   [ ] Is this why I keep accidently messing up my group contents?
>   [ ] What's a group?
>
> Dar Scott
Normally I have it on so I can manipulate individual controls. Then I 
have to toggle it when I want to:
	edit the group's script
	paste a control into the group
	move the entire group
	re-layer objects in the group
This is sufficient for me to like having in the toolbar so that I can 
toggle it quickly AND get visual feedback to tell me which mode I am 
currently in.
The docs show a shortcut for temporary toggling (Cmd-click or 
Cntl-click) but this doesn't work - at least not on my system (Mac OS X 
10.3.2).

Cheers,
Sarah
sarahr at genesearch.com.au
http://www.troz.net/Rev/


From sarahr at genesearch.com.au  Mon Feb 16 19:52:37 2004
From: sarahr at genesearch.com.au (Sarah Reichelt)
Date: Tue, 17 Feb 2004 10:52:37 +1000
Subject: Stack no long resizable?
In-Reply-To: <402D77F4.2070609@sasktel.net>
References: <402D77F4.2070609@sasktel.net>
Message-ID: <9475BA66-60E3-11D8-A661-0003937A97B8@genesearch.com.au>

This is probably a silly question, but are you sure you haven't 
un-checked the "Resizable" box in the "Size & Position" section of the 
Stack inspector?

There is a script method of checking/un-checking this and I wonder if 
your installation of the palette resizer object messed with this. The 
script would be: set the resizable of this stack to true/false

Cheers,
Sarah

On 14 Feb 2004, at 11:22 am, Mark MacKenzie wrote:

> I have a stack that is no longer resizeable in the development 
> platform or when in the browse cursor form.
>
> I can change its dimensions within the property inspector (stack) and 
> the stack resizes and stays that way but I cannot grab the window 
> frame and resize it..  The min  settings are each at 32 while the max  
>  is at 575 and 600 pixels.  The stack mode is toplevel. It is a 
> substack of another stack which is in palette mode.
> The can't delete function is enabled but the stack is left in 
> modifiable form within the property inspector.
>
> I did once use that object palette rezier object in a test.  Ran into 
> problems with it and deleted it from the stack.  I cannot find any 
> scripting which would disable the direct resizable character of this 
> stack.
>
> Can anyone suggest how I can effectively get this back without having 
> to input numbers into the respective property inspector?


From 3mcgrath at adelphia.net  Mon Feb 16 20:07:34 2004
From: 3mcgrath at adelphia.net (Thomas McGrath III)
Date: Mon, 16 Feb 2004 20:07:34 -0500
Subject: Style:  Select Grouped Controls
In-Reply-To: <99E21F0A-60B6-11D8-A69F-000A9567A3E6@swcp.com>
References: <99E21F0A-60B6-11D8-A69F-000A9567A3E6@swcp.com>
Message-ID: <AB1923D0-60E5-11D8-BF6A-000A95DA60FA@adelphia.net>

ALways of course, When I am editing objects/controls Then I turn it off.

Also, show invisible only when I am editing then I turn it off.

Mentally I am in edit mode
vs
Debug mode
vs
Build mode
vs
Design/messing around mode
vs
testing mode
vs
final state testing mode


On Feb 16, 2004, at 2:30 PM, Dar Scott wrote:

> I am more than just curious; this might affect how I deliver custom 
> controls.  It is certainly not my intent to start any religious wars.  
> We seem to have different ways of getting things done; I'd like to 
> learn from that of others.
>
> I wonder how folks use "Select Grouped Controls".  Some possible 
> answers:
>
>   [ ] Never.  It shouldn't even be on the tool bar.
>   [ ] Only in special cases and then turn it off.
>   [ ] By default.
>   [ ] Always, of course.
>   [ ] Is this why I keep accidently messing up my group contents?
>   [ ] What's a group?
>
> Dar Scott
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>
>

Thomas J. McGrath III
SCS
1000 Killarney Dr.
Pittsburgh, PA 15234
412-885-8541


From m.mackenzie at sasktel.net  Mon Feb 16 20:07:51 2004
From: m.mackenzie at sasktel.net (Mark MacKenzie)
Date: Mon, 16 Feb 2004 19:07:51 -0600
Subject: Stack no long resizable?
In-Reply-To: <9475BA66-60E3-11D8-A661-0003937A97B8@genesearch.com.au>
References: <402D77F4.2070609@sasktel.net>
 <9475BA66-60E3-11D8-A661-0003937A97B8@genesearch.com.au>
Message-ID: <40316967.6020508@sasktel.net>

Thank you.  In fact the resizable check box was checked for resizable.  
I acutally toggled this several times in my efforts to track down the 
problem.  No luck at all.

Then I decided to take the "fix everything including the dead simple you 
should have thought of this first stuff".  None of the GUI controls 
fixed this BUT, using your script actually I did it before reading your 
reply but it was the step that reset things to "normal".  So what we do 
know is that in my stack situation, deleting the window resize widget 
object, set something which was not reachable by the GUI reizable stack 
check box but was reachable through the message box and a script.  That 
is perhaps the most important knowledge gained.

Thank you Sarah.

Mark MacKenzie

Sarah Reichelt wrote:

> This is probably a silly question, but are you sure you haven't 
> un-checked the "Resizable" box in the "Size & Position" section of the 
> Stack inspector?
>
> There is a script method of checking/un-checking this and I wonder if 
> your installation of the palette resizer object messed with this. The 
> script would be: set the resizable of this stack to true/false
>
> Cheers,
> Sarah
>
> On 14 Feb 2004, at 11:22 am, Mark MacKenzie wrote:
>
>> I have a stack that is no longer resizeable in the development 
>> platform or when in the browse cursor form.
>>
>> I can change its dimensions within the property inspector (stack) and 
>> the stack resizes and stays that way but I cannot grab the window 
>> frame and resize it..  The min  settings are each at 32 while the 
>> max   is at 575 and 600 pixels.  The stack mode is toplevel. It is a 
>> substack of another stack which is in palette mode.
>> The can't delete function is enabled but the stack is left in 
>> modifiable form within the property inspector.
>>
>> I did once use that object palette rezier object in a test.  Ran into 
>> problems with it and deleted it from the stack.  I cannot find any 
>> scripting which would disable the direct resizable character of this 
>> stack.
>>
>> Can anyone suggest how I can effectively get this back without having 
>> to input numbers into the respective property inspector?
>
>


From 3mcgrath at adelphia.net  Mon Feb 16 20:10:46 2004
From: 3mcgrath at adelphia.net (Thomas McGrath III)
Date: Mon, 16 Feb 2004 20:10:46 -0500
Subject: Mindstorms and Revolution.
In-Reply-To: <1E2DE5D3-60DB-11D8-A661-0003937A97B8@genesearch.com.au>
References: <5C322FDC-5DF7-11D8-B830-000A9567A3E6@swcp.com>
	<98ED739A-5E31-11D8-9682-0003936D012E@mac.com>
	<1E2DE5D3-60DB-11D8-A661-0003937A97B8@genesearch.com.au>
Message-ID: <1D8DC7BE-60E6-11D8-BF6A-000A95DA60FA@adelphia.net>

Sarah,

If you do then YOU WILL BE MY HERO................


Thanks

Tom
On Feb 16, 2004, at 6:52 PM, Sarah Reichelt wrote:

>> I have a mindstorms set here, I once created my own scheme 
>> interpreter to fiddle with it. It was very very fun! although Scheme 
>> was not R5RS compliant and not all RCX features were implemented it 
>> showed that the task is easy.
>>
>> I never tried serial communication with Rev, but if there's a way to 
>> do simple serial communication then you can control your RCX.
>
> There is a serial test stack at my web page that allows serial 
> communications using Macs (OS 9 or X) and Windows. It is very simple 
> and just opens a port using the specified parameters and allows you to 
> send a string, reading any incoming data from the serial port.
>
> I'll have to download the Mindstorm specs and try it with my Lego set.
>
> Cheers,
> Sarah
> sarahr at genesearch.com.au
> http://www.troz.net/Rev/
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>
>

Thomas J. McGrath III
SCS
1000 Killarney Dr.
Pittsburgh, PA 15234
412-885-8541


From wouter.abraham at pi.be  Mon Feb 16 20:14:03 2004
From: wouter.abraham at pi.be (Wouter)
Date: Tue, 17 Feb 2004 02:14:03 +0100
Subject: How to "do" this
In-Reply-To: <20040216163455.9186A93024E@mail.runrev.com>
References: <20040216163455.9186A93024E@mail.runrev.com>
Message-ID: <934AE74D-60E6-11D8-B6F2-003065CC999E@pi.be>


On 16 Feb 2004, at 17:34, use-revolution-request at lists.runrev.com wrote:

> Message: 9
> Date: Mon, 16 Feb 2004 17:22:03 +0100
> From: Bj?rnke von Gierke<bvg at mac.com>
> Subject: How to "do" this
> To: use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> Message-ID: <41538604-609C-11D8-9D5A-003065AD94A4 at mac.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed
>
> I want to loop over each object where as the object can be specified by
> the user is there a way to get this working? The problem is that the
> repeat loop does not understand this part, which should evaluate to
> "Fields":  (theO & "s")
>
> on mouseDown
>    --Button "Object" = Field
>    put the label of Button "Object" into theO
>    --button "stack name" = the name of a open stack
>    put the label of button "Stack name" into theS
>    repeat with x = 1 to the number of (theO && "s") in stack theS
>      do "put" && theO && x && "of stack" && quote & theS & quote && "&
> return after me"
>    end repeat
> end mouseDown


on mouseDown
   --Button "Object" = Field
   put the label of Button "Object" into theO
   put the label of Button "Object"&"s" into theOs
   --button "stack name" = the name of a open stack
   put the label of button "Stack name" into theS
   do "put the number of " & theOs& " in stack " & quote &theS &quote & 
" into nof"
   --repeat with x = 1 to the number of (theO & "s") in stack theS
   repeat with x = 1 to nof
     do "put" && theO && x && "of stack" && quote & theS & quote && "& 
return after tBox"
   end repeat
   filter tBox with "*"
   put tBox into me
end mouseDown


Greetings,
WA


From sarahr at genesearch.com.au  Mon Feb 16 20:18:20 2004
From: sarahr at genesearch.com.au (Sarah Reichelt)
Date: Tue, 17 Feb 2004 11:18:20 +1000
Subject: Mindstorms and Revolution.
In-Reply-To: <1D8DC7BE-60E6-11D8-BF6A-000A95DA60FA@adelphia.net>
References: <5C322FDC-5DF7-11D8-B830-000A9567A3E6@swcp.com>
	<98ED739A-5E31-11D8-9682-0003936D012E@mac.com>
	<1E2DE5D3-60DB-11D8-A661-0003937A97B8@genesearch.com.au>
	<1D8DC7BE-60E6-11D8-BF6A-000A95DA60FA@adelphia.net>
Message-ID: <2C1CE1AF-60E7-11D8-A661-0003937A97B8@genesearch.com.au>

On 17 Feb 2004, at 11:12 am, Thomas McGrath III wrote:

> Sarah,
>
> If you do then YOU WILL BE MY HERO................

How can I resist that :-)
I've downloaded all the info about the opcodes and such which looks 
fairly obscure but certainly not impossible, so if I get time, I'll try 
it out next weekend.

Sarah


From ian at azurevision.co.uk  Mon Feb 16 20:21:43 2004
From: ian at azurevision.co.uk (Ian Wood)
Date: Tue, 17 Feb 2004 01:21:43 +0000
Subject: Mindstorms and Revolution.
In-Reply-To: <1E2DE5D3-60DB-11D8-A661-0003937A97B8@genesearch.com.au>
References: <5C322FDC-5DF7-11D8-B830-000A9567A3E6@swcp.com>
	<98ED739A-5E31-11D8-9682-0003936D012E@mac.com>
	<1E2DE5D3-60DB-11D8-A661-0003937A97B8@genesearch.com.au>
Message-ID: <A563C1C2-60E7-11D8-9B9E-0003935A2896@azurevision.co.uk>

Having delved deeper into the documentation at www.makingthings.com the 
teleo system appears to the computer as a serial port and can be 
controlled by any app that can communicate with serial ports.  Here 
come customised devices with customised control apps!  He said 
hopefully...

Ian

On 16 Feb 2004, at 23:52, Sarah Reichelt wrote:

>> I have a mindstorms set here, I once created my own scheme 
>> interpreter to fiddle with it. It was very very fun! although Scheme 
>> was not R5RS compliant and not all RCX features were implemented it 
>> showed that the task is easy.
>>
>> I never tried serial communication with Rev, but if there's a way to 
>> do simple serial communication then you can control your RCX.
>
> There is a serial test stack at my web page that allows serial 
> communications using Macs (OS 9 or X) and Windows. It is very simple 
> and just opens a port using the specified parameters and allows you to 
> send a string, reading any incoming data from the serial port.
>
> I'll have to download the Mindstorm specs and try it with my Lego set.
>
> Cheers,
> Sarah
> sarahr at genesearch.com.au
> http://www.troz.net/Rev/


From wouter.abraham at pi.be  Mon Feb 16 20:27:12 2004
From: wouter.abraham at pi.be (Wouter)
Date: Tue, 17 Feb 2004 02:27:12 +0100
Subject: How to "do" this
In-Reply-To: <20040217011311.0793B9300D8@mail.runrev.com>
References: <20040217011311.0793B9300D8@mail.runrev.com>
Message-ID: <698DFC30-60E8-11D8-B6F2-003065CC999E@pi.be>


On 17 Feb 2004, at 02:13, use-revolution-request at lists.runrev.com wrote:

> Message: 1
> Date: Mon, 16 Feb 2004 21:22:38 +0100
> From: Bj?rnke von Gierke<bvg at mac.com>
> Subject: Re: How to "do" this
> To: How to use Revolution <use-revolution at lists.runrev.com>
> Message-ID: <DD31228E-60BD-11D8-9D5A-003065AD94A4 at mac.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
>
>
> On Montag, Feb 16, 2004, at 18:21 Europe/Zurich, Dar Scott wrote:
>
>>
>> On Monday, February 16, 2004, at 09:22 AM, Bj?rnke von Gierke wrote:
>>
>>>   repeat with x = 1 to the number of (theO && "s") in stack theS
>>
>> Is (theO && "s") intended to evaluate something like "fields"?  Then
>> you have a typo.  You need & instead of &&.
>
> Oh yes i saw that, but it does not help :(
>
>>
>> I didn't realize that <objectType> could be an expression here.
>
> well maybe that is why it does not work... I probably have to make a
> switch and do the repeat for each object type separately...
>
>> There is so much I don't know about object detailed syntax.
>> Especially when it comes to runtime evaluation and quoted strings.
>
> Same here
>


If your handler is not supposed to capture the fields contents or
keep previous list if the number of cards = 0 then better change to the 
following

on mouseDown
   --Button "Object" = Field
   put the label of Button "Object" into theO
   put the label of Button "Object"&"s" into theOs
   --button "stack name" = the name of a open stack
   put the label of button "Stack name" into theS
   do "put the number of " & theOs& " in stack " & quote &theS &quote & 
" into nof"
   if nof = 0 then put "no fields" into me
   else
     repeat with x = 1 to nof
       do "put the name of" && theO && x && "of stack" && quote & theS & 
quote && "& return after tbox"
     end repeat
     filter tbox with "*"
     put tbox into me
   end if
end mouseDown

Regards,
WA


From SimPLsol at aol.com  Mon Feb 16 22:51:49 2004
From: SimPLsol at aol.com (SimPLsol at aol.com)
Date: Mon, 16 Feb 2004 22:51:49 EST
Subject: Select Grouped Controls
Message-ID: <12f.3bd07bac.2d62e9d5@aol.com>

This "Select Group", "Edit Group", etc. is very counterintuitive (especially 
when the hilite of the Select Group button must be FALSE to select the whole 
group). Perhaps in Rev. 3.0 it will be clearer, maybe the choices should be: 
"Select Whole Group" and "Select Parts of Groups".
Paul Looney

From pixelbird at interisland.net  Mon Feb 16 23:16:16 2004
From: pixelbird at interisland.net (Ken Norris)
Date: Mon, 16 Feb 2004 20:16:16 -0800
Subject: Fields blew North
In-Reply-To: <20040216203213.01D8C93028D@mail.runrev.com>
Message-ID: <BC56D590.507C%pixelbird@interisland.net>

OK, here's a mystery:

I have an Anchor window, a palette window and two nearly identical standard
windows.

For no reason I can imagine a field (the 'same' field) in each of the two
standard windows disappeared. I didn't know if they got deleted or
what...haven't run across this behavior before. I found them in the
Application Browser and got the Inspector to show the settings.


Oddly, both of them had gotten blown out the top of their respective
windows. Both showed a loc of -83, way above the Arctic Circle. Fortunately,
I was able to use the Browser to 4WD them separately down through the tundra
and back into their windows.

Everything is back to normal...._but_, I need to know what the heck
happened.

Any clues?

TIA,
Ken N.


From dsc at swcp.com  Mon Feb 16 23:20:02 2004
From: dsc at swcp.com (Dar Scott)
Date: Mon, 16 Feb 2004 21:20:02 -0700
Subject: Fields blew North
In-Reply-To: <BC56D590.507C%pixelbird@interisland.net>
Message-ID: <8E5CF721-6100-11D8-A69F-000A9567A3E6@swcp.com>


On Monday, February 16, 2004, at 09:16 PM, Ken Norris wrote:

> Everything is back to normal...._but_, I need to know what the heck
> happened.

When this happens to me it is because I goofed up x and y or a 
rectangle or screen vs stack coordinates in some script.

Dar Scott


From pixelbird at interisland.net  Mon Feb 16 23:30:03 2004
From: pixelbird at interisland.net (Ken Norris)
Date: Mon, 16 Feb 2004 20:30:03 -0800
Subject: Style:  Select Grouped Controls
In-Reply-To: <20040216203213.01D8C93028D@mail.runrev.com>
Message-ID: <BC56D8CB.507D%pixelbird@interisland.net>

Howdy,

> Date: Mon, 16 Feb 2004 11:44:52 -0800
> From: Richard Gaskin <ambassador at fourthworld.com>
> Subject: Re: Style:  Select Grouped Controls

> I use it like the Subselect tool in many drawing programs like
> Fireworks, LiveMotion, etc., turning it on and off as needed.
-----------
Oddly enough, that's what I always thought it was for, so that's how I use
it too. Dictionary says:

If the selectGroupedControls is true, clicking an object in a group selects
only that object, even if the editBackground is false.
-----------
> I wonder if others would pick it up faster if it was acessed as a standard
> subselect tool from the tool palette.  There's even an empty space as though
> waiting for such an addition. :)
-----------
Seems like a pretty good idea, but a keyboard toggle shortcut would be even
better, IMHO.

Hmmm. I think I'll try to implement that right now, if I can figure out how
to hack the menus.

Ken N. 


From chipp at chipp.com  Mon Feb 16 23:56:03 2004
From: chipp at chipp.com (Chipp Walters)
Date: Mon, 16 Feb 2004 22:56:03 -0600
Subject: Windows Application Icon
In-Reply-To: <OOEILOHDALDBNFBEKCMLAEIGCBAA.chipp@altuit.com>
References: <OOEILOHDALDBNFBEKCMLAEIGCBAA.chipp@altuit.com>
Message-ID: <969AB688-6105-11D8-8E0B-000A95F078B6@chipp.com>

Sorry about the late posts...Seems my Mac is deciding to repost for me 
whenever.


-Chipp


From doug at webcrossing.com  Tue Feb 17 00:15:54 2004
From: doug at webcrossing.com (Doug Lerner)
Date: Tue, 17 Feb 2004 14:15:54 +0900
Subject: number of arguments, etc?
Message-ID: <BC57D29A.270A4%doug@webcrossing.com>

Is there something in Transcript like the JavaScript arguments array, where
you can check the number of arguments received by a function, and what those
arguments are?

doug


From hershbp at realtorsgroup.us  Tue Feb 17 00:16:17 2004
From: hershbp at realtorsgroup.us (hershrev)
Date: Tue, 17 Feb 2004 00:16:17 -0500
Subject: control scructure repeat and next line
Message-ID: <6A301DBE-6108-11D8-8B65-0030654C1E62@realtorsgroup.us>

Hello every body .
this probably is a first grade question but ....
1) the repeat structure  I want to do a repeat till the end of a list 
or end of file ? I did relies the repeat for each , I don't understand 
the logic behind it. how to use it
2) which command tells to move to the next line (and then to  "put the 
selectedText into myVar"), by words I "put word myWord in a repeat so 
it just keeps on moving. ?
sorry for this silly question
and by the way a question , why selectedText , selectedLine, don't 
return the same data type . The selectedLine returns the line # and the 
selectedText returns the text itself  , shouldn't  the seletedLine 
return the string of the line as well ? isn't an inconsistency ?
Sorry , but Thanks.


From dsc at swcp.com  Tue Feb 17 00:32:01 2004
From: dsc at swcp.com (Dar Scott)
Date: Mon, 16 Feb 2004 22:32:01 -0700
Subject: number of arguments, etc?
In-Reply-To: <BC57D29A.270A4%doug@webcrossing.com>
Message-ID: <9CB1D460-610A-11D8-A69F-000A9567A3E6@swcp.com>


On Monday, February 16, 2004, at 10:15 PM, Doug Lerner wrote:

> Is there something in Transcript like the JavaScript arguments array, 
> where
> you can check the number of arguments received by a function, and what 
> those
> arguments are?

Look at paramCount() and param().

With limited data, params() might be OK.  I don't use it.

If a value parameter is not in the call, it is empty in parameter 
variable for the function or handler.

Dar Scott




From doug at webcrossing.com  Tue Feb 17 00:42:00 2004
From: doug at webcrossing.com (Doug Lerner)
Date: Tue, 17 Feb 2004 14:42:00 +0900
Subject: number of arguments, etc?
In-Reply-To: <9CB1D460-610A-11D8-A69F-000A9567A3E6@swcp.com>
Message-ID: <BC57D8B8.270B4%doug@webcrossing.com>

Interesting. I'll check this out.

doug

On 2/17/04 2:32 PM, "Dar Scott" <dsc at swcp.com> wrote:

> 
> On Monday, February 16, 2004, at 10:15 PM, Doug Lerner wrote:
> 
>> Is there something in Transcript like the JavaScript arguments array,
>> where
>> you can check the number of arguments received by a function, and what
>> those
>> arguments are?
> 
> Look at paramCount() and param().
> 
> With limited data, params() might be OK.  I don't use it.
> 
> If a value parameter is not in the call, it is empty in parameter
> variable for the function or handler.
> 
> Dar Scott
> 
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution


From sarahr at genesearch.com.au  Tue Feb 17 01:09:28 2004
From: sarahr at genesearch.com.au (Sarah Reichelt)
Date: Tue, 17 Feb 2004 16:09:28 +1000
Subject: control scructure repeat and next line
In-Reply-To: <6A301DBE-6108-11D8-8B65-0030654C1E62@realtorsgroup.us>
References: <6A301DBE-6108-11D8-8B65-0030654C1E62@realtorsgroup.us>
Message-ID: <D8436504-610F-11D8-A662-0003937A97B8@genesearch.com.au>

> 1) the repeat structure  I want to do a repeat till the end of a list 
> or end of file ? I did relies the repeat for each , I don't understand 
> the logic behind it. how to use it

repeat for each line L in myList
   -- first time through, L contains line 1
   doStuff L   -- your script for processing the line
   -- next time through the loop, L contains line 2 and so on
end repeat

> 2) which command tells to move to the next line (and then to  "put the 
> selectedText into myVar"), by words I "put word myWord in a repeat so 
> it just keeps on moving. ?
"end repeat" tells it to start the loop again and with "repeat for 
each", it automatically goes on to the next line. By way of example, 
here is an identical loop in a format that might seem more familiar:

repeat with x = 1 to the number of lines in myList
   put line x of myList into L
   doStuff L
end repeat

However, "repeat for each" is MUCH faster and once you get used to the 
construct, very easy to write.

> sorry for this silly question
> and by the way a question , why selectedText , selectedLine, don't 
> return the same data type . The selectedLine returns the line # and 
> the selectedText returns the text itself  , shouldn't  the seletedLine 
> return the string of the line as well ? isn't an inconsistency ?
They do different things. The names of the properties may seem 
inconsistent to you, but all the chunking expressions get different 
segments of the data and there doesn't seem to be any reason why they 
should overlap. If you have a more precise need, then write your own 
function that combines some of the chunking expressions to give you 
exactly the information you want.

Cheers,
Sarah
sarahr at genesearch.com.au
http://www.troz.net/Rev/


From pixelbird at interisland.net  Tue Feb 17 01:26:57 2004
From: pixelbird at interisland.net (Ken Norris)
Date: Mon, 16 Feb 2004 22:26:57 -0800
Subject: sounds/telephony
In-Reply-To: <20040216063307.B392F930227@mail.runrev.com>
Message-ID: <BC56F431.507E%pixelbird@interisland.net>

Hi Dar,

> Date: Sun, 15 Feb 2004 15:30:03 -0700
> From: Dar Scott <dsc at swcp.com>
> Subject: Re: sounds/telephony
> 
> on dial dNumber
> open driver "com3:" for update
----------
Thanks much.

What is driver "com3:"? , i.e., where did you get the info for this?
----------
> write "AT" & numToChar(13) to driver "com3:"-- dummy command
----------
What is this for? Never used a dummy command before. I forgot the S -reg,
but I think there's one that spends a second or two and checks for valid
dial tone.
----------- 
> write "ATDT & dNumber & numToChar(13) to driver "com3:"-- dial number
> send hangUp to me in 10 seconds
> end dial
-----------
Once again, you're referring to a driver. Why? What about the port?
Shouldn't we be addressing a port instead of a driver?

I'm not getting that. Must be some kinda Windows thing, yes?
-----------  
> on hangUp
> write "ATH0" & numToChar(13) to driver "com3:"
> close driver "com3:"
> end hangUp
> 
> You have to modify this to use the right com port.  You might like a
> different way to hang up.  If you use an external modem you may need to
> set up serialControlString.  Some modems are not exactly Hayes
> compatible and you may need to fiddle with the line end.
-----------
Is there a way to detect what is being used and try a few other things until
something works?

The app I'm building may be used on several different machines.

I just want them to click on the number and it dials.

Thanks again,
Ken N.


From mcdomi at free.fr  Tue Feb 17 01:45:25 2004
From: mcdomi at free.fr (Dom)
Date: Tue, 17 Feb 2004 07:45:25 +0100
Subject: Style:  Select Grouped Controls
In-Reply-To: <99E21F0A-60B6-11D8-A69F-000A9567A3E6@swcp.com>
Message-ID: <1g99ohn.1i8clnj1j4gtdsM%mcdomi@free.fr>

Dar Scott <dsc at swcp.com> wrote:

> I wonder how folks use "Select Grouped Controls".  Some possible 
> answers:
> 
>    [ ] Never.  It shouldn't even be on the tool bar.
>    [ ] Only in special cases and then turn it off.
>    [X] By default.
>    [ ] Always, of course.
>    [ ] Is this why I keep accidently messing up my group contents?
>    [ ] What's a group?   ;-)

Acceded via the Menubar and sometimes via the Text Toolbar.
Sometimes activated/deactived to edit a group.

-- 
Vous parlez fran?ais ? faites un tour sur le groupe francophone !
revolutionfr-subscribe at yahoogroupes.fr
Jetez un oeil sur RevoBlog <http://revoblog.free.fr> !

From dsc at swcp.com  Tue Feb 17 01:50:54 2004
From: dsc at swcp.com (Dar Scott)
Date: Mon, 16 Feb 2004 23:50:54 -0700
Subject: sounds/telephony
In-Reply-To: <BC56F431.507E%pixelbird@interisland.net>
Message-ID: <A1ADA68E-6115-11D8-A69F-000A9567A3E6@swcp.com>


On Monday, February 16, 2004, at 11:26 PM, Ken Norris wrote:

> I'm not getting that. Must be some kinda Windows thing, yes?

You did say Windows?

> I just want them to click on the number and it dials.

You need to know the com port for the modem.  Maybe some registry 
expert has an idea on finding the modem.  Or you might use a control to 
select it.  You can get a list from the registry or try opening a bunch 
for read and make your list from that.

Typically a Windows computer will have serial ports com1: and com2: out 
the back.  Sometimes an external modem will be connected to one of 
those.  If a card is plugged in, then it is often com3:.  But it might 
be something else.

As far as whether you use 'file' or 'driver', both will probably work.  
You may also use '\\.\COM1' notation for driver.

If you feel confident that there is nothing else on other serial ports, 
you can search for a modem.

Oh, the dummy command is just incase some noise got into the modem data 
before or as you open the port.  I'm just paranoid.  You can leave that 
off if you want.

Dar Scott


From chipp at chipp.com  Tue Feb 17 02:05:32 2004
From: chipp at chipp.com (Chipp Walters)
Date: Tue, 17 Feb 2004 01:05:32 -0600
Subject: Windows Application Icon
In-Reply-To: <490A3EAA-60A5-11D8-81D0-000A95859272@earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <ACEELABEAIANJNCEJFMAAEACIOAA.chipp@chipp.com>

Mark,
Here's some stuff from ButtonGadget which might help. I believe it will do
what you need it to (ButtonGadget extension is .plg). I put
doRegistryStuffin the startup handler, so it runs each time.

on doRegistryStuff

  put the fileName of this stack into tPath
  set itemDel to "/"
  delete last item of tPath
  replace "/" with "\" in tPath
  put tPath&"\ButtonGadget.exe" into tPath

  if queryregistry("HKEY_CLASSES_ROOT\.plg\") <> "ButtonGadget" then
    get setRegistry("HKEY_CLASSES_ROOT\.plg\","ButtonGadget")
  end if

  if queryregistry("HKEY_CLASSES_ROOT\ButtonGadget\") <> "ButtonGadget
document" then
    get setRegistry("HKEY_CLASSES_ROOT\ButtonGadget\","ButtonGadget
document")
  end if

  put tPath&",1" into tVar
  if queryregistry("HKEY_CLASSES_ROOT\ButtonGadget\DefaultIcon\") <> tVar
then
    get setRegistry("HKEY_CLASSES_ROOT\ButtonGadget\DefaultIcon\",tVar)
  end if

  put tPath&" %1" into tVar
  if queryregistry("HKEY_CLASSES_ROOT\ButtonGadget\shell\open\command\") <>
tVar then
    get
setRegistry("HKEY_CLASSES_ROOT\ButtonGadget\shell\open\command\",tVar)
  end if

end doRegistryStuff

>
> Yes I finally got most of it to work. I looked at what was getting
> added with regEdit and I'm still having problems getting the document
> icon to associate with newly created documents. I forced an association
> with folder tools available on Windows XP Pro. I just need an automatic
> way to do this so the user does not have to force an association.
>
> Mark
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>



From pixelbird at interisland.net  Tue Feb 17 02:13:05 2004
From: pixelbird at interisland.net (Ken Norris)
Date: Mon, 16 Feb 2004 23:13:05 -0800
Subject: sounds/telephony
In-Reply-To: <20040216063307.B392F930227@mail.runrev.com>
Message-ID: <BC56FF01.507F%pixelbird@interisland.net>

> Date: Sun, 15 Feb 2004 15:46:45 -0700
> From: Dar Scott <dsc at swcp.com>
> Subject: Re: sounds/telephony


> On Sunday, February 15, 2004, at 02:25 PM, Ken Norris wrote:
> 
>> I must say I really
>> miss HyperCard's "dial" command. Any chance of getting that feature
>> down the
>> road? I.e., a replacement for:
>> 
>> dial "1234567"
>> -- or
>> dial "1234567" with modem
> 
> But these are really at a toy level and awkward to use.
----------
Heartily disagree. Call it what you like, it doesn't get any simpler, I've
been using it flawlessly for years. If you have the right equipment it's
rock solid. I've seen fancier stuff that no one ever uses all of anyway.

I think you're just jealous ;-D
----------
> For games that have a phone to use the first might be used, but so can
> playing dial sounds.
----------
I have one that I built about a month ago that uses dial sounds in an
extended loop. In SC the basic action code for a given button looks like
this:

if "Tone" is in the userProps of the target then
  play forever (line 1 of the Tone of the target)
end if

It's just a little screen widget, but here are the things it does:

1) You can click the mouse on a phonepad simulator. Holding the mouse down
on a button plays a continuous tone until you release, for what that's
worth. It's just like a real phonepad.

2) You can use the keyboard number pad or the ones above with symbols. Like
shift/* plays the star tone. Again, the keydown plays continuous tone until
you release, the same as a phone. What's more, the button animation
simulates being pressed as if by a ghost, or like they do when you use the
mouse.

3) Typing any alpha character lights the letter in a grc and opens a
scrolling list field to names whose last name begins with the letter.
Selecting a name autodials the person's number.
----------
> For the latter, the utility is awkward, because of the need to take the
> phone off hook by hand and to hangup by hand.  There may be some uses
> where the ringing of the phone is the desired result.
----------
Nope, the HC dialer in my PB uses the modem, like we already talked about.
Of course I still have to pick up the phone immediately after it dials, or
the modem hangs up, because it's not a voice modem.
----------
> Since these are straightforward to build, these might be better in
> somebody's goodies collection than in Revolution.  Or in tips.
>
> Unfortunately, more serious phone control is more expensive or harder.
> One way to go is BlueTooth.  Another is a phone gadget that looks like
> serial to Revolution.
-----------
Eventually, I will need to get a voice modem, probably an external one. Then
I can make the computer talk on the phone with TTS for speech impaired
people.

I'm looking for a resource for good refurbished voice modems. Since speed
isn't really a factor, I think I should be able to get a few to play with
cheaply, but I haven't run across the right resources so far.

Ken N.


From dsc at swcp.com  Tue Feb 17 02:29:26 2004
From: dsc at swcp.com (Dar Scott)
Date: Tue, 17 Feb 2004 00:29:26 -0700
Subject: sounds/telephony
In-Reply-To: <BC56FF01.507F%pixelbird@interisland.net>
Message-ID: <03FAD236-611B-11D8-A69F-000A9567A3E6@swcp.com>


On Tuesday, February 17, 2004, at 12:13 AM, Ken Norris wrote:

>> For the latter, the utility is awkward, because of the need to take 
>> the
>> phone off hook by hand and to hangup by hand.  There may be some uses
>> where the ringing of the phone is the desired result.
> ----------
> Nope, the HC dialer in my PB uses the modem, like we already talked 
> about.
> Of course I still have to pick up the phone immediately after it 
> dials, or
> the modem hangs up,

Isn't that what I just said?

> because it's not a voice modem.

I don't think HC has any voice modem telephony capability.  Maybe I 
missed it.

As for the dial command, for the Old Macs, it is straightforward to 
make one, use "modem:".  For OS X and for Windows you need to find the 
modem.  That is easy in OS X.  It shouldn't be too hard for Windows.

The first one doesn't have to be multi-platform.  Maybe it doesn't even 
have to find the modem.

Of course, it will be just as limited as the HC version.

Dar Scott






From pixelbird at interisland.net  Tue Feb 17 02:44:26 2004
From: pixelbird at interisland.net (Ken Norris)
Date: Mon, 16 Feb 2004 23:44:26 -0800
Subject: Fields blew North
In-Reply-To: <20040217061021.0214E9300F5@mail.runrev.com>
Message-ID: <BC57065A.5088%pixelbird@interisland.net>

> Date: Mon, 16 Feb 2004 21:20:02 -0700
> From: Dar Scott <dsc at swcp.com>
> Subject: Re: Fields blew North

> When this happens to me it is because I goofed up x and y or a
> rectangle or screen vs stack coordinates in some script.
------------
Hmmm. I don't think so. Why would it cause the same thing to happen to two
fields in two separate stacks, neither of which is referenced in any script?

Ken N.


From b.xavier at internet.lu  Tue Feb 17 03:07:54 2004
From: b.xavier at internet.lu (MisterX)
Date: Tue, 17 Feb 2004 09:07:54 +0100
Subject: Discrete Browser 1.4 - Yet Another  release
In-Reply-To: <ENEALNOCJBOOOHHCCEKNEEEOFNAA.b.xavier@internet.lu>
Message-ID: <ENEALNOCJBOOOHHCCEKNMEFIFNAA.b.xavier@internet.lu>

Hi everyone,

It's so simple when you design nice groups that work
independently of the stack... Copy paste features!

Here's release 1.4 with media lists, links, view menu (change the
display font and size), and the upcoming (but disabled) filtering.
Added a home page and new icons for your visual pleasure.

Last release before the weekend... 

All comments and issues (specialy regarding Mac or Linux which I 
cant test for the moment) are welcome... 

Feature requests are open!

Enjoy!

Xavier


> -----Original Message-----
> From: use-revolution-bounces at lists.runrev.com
> [mailto:use-revolution-bounces at lists.runrev.com]On Behalf Of MisterX
> Sent: Monday, February 16, 2004 21:07
> To: How to use Revolution
> Subject: Rel: Discrete Browser 1.3 - the borg release
> 
> 
> A new version of the Discrete Browser is here under the mango tree
> (aaah, the inspiring sounds that drives this developper)!
> 
> http://monsieurx.com/modules.php?name=Downloads&d_op=getit&lid=44
> Im still looking to scratch the guest can't download feature...
> Enjoy the stories, the sounds, the views! Enjoy your login and
> downloads, no popups or ads or banners or lame stories! ;)
> 
> ;)
> 
> So discrete is this small project that version 1.2 was this
> morning, 1.3 is here for the evening... V1.5 is a big paste
> job from XOS so hold your breath coz im integrating a zillion
> features at once ;).
> 
> At the rate im adding features, it's gonna blow
> any browser you know! It may not have the most
> html-standard-respecting display but it will not
> loose one byte about what you download!
> 
> A few novelties since last 1.0 mention are:
> 
> - Google search (and many more to come)
> - wiki linkclicked support (other cgi's to be tested)
> - Added smart url guessing (monsieurx = www.monsieurx.com)
> - Added eventual failsafe for ftp links (ftp not really supported)
> - Finished the Favorites menu (delete with controlkey down, shiftkey
> reserved)
> - Fixed the source so that it displays the page instead of the
>   filtered html, and also smarter format displays (many more to come)
> 
> To disperse some rumors that Im rebuilding yet another browser...
> or just another dumb browser... XOS GUI is coming...
> 
> -
> 
> If you want to pitch in, I'll send you the feature dev plan or
> come and chat @ monsieurx.com! Hit that "SPChat" module!
> http://monsieurx.com/modules.php?name=SPChat
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution

From dsc at swcp.com  Tue Feb 17 03:02:26 2004
From: dsc at swcp.com (Dar Scott)
Date: Tue, 17 Feb 2004 01:02:26 -0700
Subject: Fields blew North
In-Reply-To: <BC57065A.5088%pixelbird@interisland.net>
Message-ID: <9FD7A1C4-611F-11D8-A69F-000A9567A3E6@swcp.com>


On Tuesday, February 17, 2004, at 12:44 AM, Ken Norris wrote:

>> When this happens to me it is because I goofed up x and y or a
>> rectangle or screen vs stack coordinates in some script.
> ------------
> Hmmm. I don't think so. Why would it cause the same thing to happen to 
> two
> fields in two separate stacks, neither of which is referenced in any 
> script?

Do their names start with "rev"?

This is a mystery.  And I think you are right.  It would be hard for 
script errors in my stacks to move fields in yours.

Sometimes I made changes in the object inspector and it turns out the 
change is applied to some other object.  I assume that these were my 
cockpit errors.  Maybe something like that happened.

Maybe they are accidently referenced.  Is it your style to not quote 
field names.  That often works, of course.  Unless you have a variable 
by that name.  If the variable has a small number, maybe a field might 
be referenced by number.

Dar Scott


From rodney at infiny.co.nz  Tue Feb 17 05:11:58 2004
From: rodney at infiny.co.nz (rodney tamblyn)
Date: Tue, 17 Feb 2004 23:11:58 +1300
Subject: Windows Application Icon
In-Reply-To: <490A3EAA-60A5-11D8-81D0-000A95859272@earthlink.net>
References: <490A3EAA-60A5-11D8-81D0-000A95859272@earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <B85713FE-6131-11D8-BF40-003065F97100@infiny.co.nz>

I don't know if this is relevant to the discussion, but you may need to  
set a registry entry to map the icon number to your file type, this is  
from the Metacard list archives:

http://www.faqchest.com/prgm/hypertalk/metac-01/metac-0103/ 
metac01032004_07477.html

~ Rodney
--

You need to create a 16 bit icon then use that when you build the  
standalone
or use an icon editor that can edit icons directly in .exe files. Then  
you
need a few registry entries.

Lets use .file as an example. The application we will register it to is
FileView.

-- register the file type to FileView
get setRegistry("HKEY_CLASSES_ROOT\.file\","FileView")

-- register a friendly name for the file type
get setRegistry("HKEY_CLASSES_ROOT\FileView\","FileView Files")

-- register a defaultIcon for the file type
get setRegistry("HKEY_CLASSES_ROOT\FileView\DefaultIcon\", "C:\Program
Files\FileView 1.0\FileView.exe,1")
-- The 1 is the document icon of the executable. Icon 0 is the default
executable icon.

-- register a shell open command for the file type
get setRegistry("HKEY_CLASSES_ROOT\FileView\Shell\Open\Command\",
"C:\Program Files\FileView 1.0\FileView.exe %1")

%1 gets replaced by the location of the stack to be opened.

Note: The above scripts may have been wraped

From chrism at lumin.us  Tue Feb 17 05:11:56 2004
From: chrism at lumin.us (Christopher Mitchell)
Date: Tue, 17 Feb 2004 04:11:56 -0600
Subject: Discrete Browser 1.4 - Yet Another  release
In-Reply-To: <ENEALNOCJBOOOHHCCEKNMEFIFNAA.b.xavier@internet.lu>
References: <ENEALNOCJBOOOHHCCEKNMEFIFNAA.b.xavier@internet.lu>
Message-ID: <B7456032-6131-11D8-B160-000393B64EDC@lumin.us>

hey this is looking good man.  wish i had time to learn rev, but i 
haven't yet. i'm running on OSX.  apple.com displays kind of funny.. if 
it doesn't on your end, i can send a screenshot later this week.

Yours,
Chris
On Feb 17, 2004, at 2:07 AM, MisterX wrote:

> Hi everyone,
>
> It's so simple when you design nice groups that work
> independently of the stack... Copy paste features!
>
> Here's release 1.4 with media lists, links, view menu (change the
> display font and size), and the upcoming (but disabled) filtering.
> Added a home page and new icons for your visual pleasure.
>
> Last release before the weekend...
>
> All comments and issues (specialy regarding Mac or Linux which I
> cant test for the moment) are welcome...
>
> Feature requests are open!
>
> Enjoy!
>
> Xavier
>
>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: use-revolution-bounces at lists.runrev.com
>> [mailto:use-revolution-bounces at lists.runrev.com]On Behalf Of MisterX
>> Sent: Monday, February 16, 2004 21:07
>> To: How to use Revolution
>> Subject: Rel: Discrete Browser 1.3 - the borg release
>>
>>
>> A new version of the Discrete Browser is here under the mango tree
>> (aaah, the inspiring sounds that drives this developper)!
>>
>> http://monsieurx.com/modules.php?name=Downloads&d_op=getit&lid=44
>> Im still looking to scratch the guest can't download feature...
>> Enjoy the stories, the sounds, the views! Enjoy your login and
>> downloads, no popups or ads or banners or lame stories! ;)
>>
>> ;)
>>
>> So discrete is this small project that version 1.2 was this
>> morning, 1.3 is here for the evening... V1.5 is a big paste
>> job from XOS so hold your breath coz im integrating a zillion
>> features at once ;).
>>
>> At the rate im adding features, it's gonna blow
>> any browser you know! It may not have the most
>> html-standard-respecting display but it will not
>> loose one byte about what you download!
>>
>> A few novelties since last 1.0 mention are:
>>
>> - Google search (and many more to come)
>> - wiki linkclicked support (other cgi's to be tested)
>> - Added smart url guessing (monsieurx = www.monsieurx.com)
>> - Added eventual failsafe for ftp links (ftp not really supported)
>> - Finished the Favorites menu (delete with controlkey down, shiftkey
>> reserved)
>> - Fixed the source so that it displays the page instead of the
>>   filtered html, and also smarter format displays (many more to come)
>>
>> To disperse some rumors that Im rebuilding yet another browser...
>> or just another dumb browser... XOS GUI is coming...
>>
>> -
>>
>> If you want to pitch in, I'll send you the feature dev plan or
>> come and chat @ monsieurx.com! Hit that "SPChat" module!
>> http://monsieurx.com/modules.php?name=SPChat
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> use-revolution mailing list
>> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>


From chrism at lumin.us  Tue Feb 17 05:18:25 2004
From: chrism at lumin.us (Christopher Mitchell)
Date: Tue, 17 Feb 2004 04:18:25 -0600
Subject: Discrete Browser 1.4 - Yet Another  release
In-Reply-To: <B7456032-6131-11D8-B160-000393B64EDC@lumin.us>
References: <ENEALNOCJBOOOHHCCEKNMEFIFNAA.b.xavier@internet.lu>
	<B7456032-6131-11D8-B160-000393B64EDC@lumin.us>
Message-ID: <9F859708-6132-11D8-B160-000393B64EDC@lumin.us>

Okay, that was supposed to not be on the list, but ah well.  My wishes 
are more along the lines of "wish I had gotten my rev license during 
the time when I could get Dan Shafer's book 1 on its own."

Yours,
Chris
On Feb 17, 2004, at 4:11 AM, Christopher Mitchell wrote:

> hey this is looking good man.  wish i had time to learn rev, but i 
> haven't yet. i'm running on OSX.  apple.com displays kind of funny.. 
> if it doesn't on your end, i can send a screenshot later this week.
>
> Yours,
> Chris
> On Feb 17, 2004, at 2:07 AM, MisterX wrote:
>
>> Hi everyone,
>>
>> It's so simple when you design nice groups that work
>> independently of the stack... Copy paste features!
>>
>> Here's release 1.4 with media lists, links, view menu (change the
>> display font and size), and the upcoming (but disabled) filtering.
>> Added a home page and new icons for your visual pleasure.
>>
>> Last release before the weekend...
>>
>> All comments and issues (specialy regarding Mac or Linux which I
>> cant test for the moment) are welcome...
>>
>> Feature requests are open!
>>
>> Enjoy!
>>
>> Xavier
>>
>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: use-revolution-bounces at lists.runrev.com
>>> [mailto:use-revolution-bounces at lists.runrev.com]On Behalf Of MisterX
>>> Sent: Monday, February 16, 2004 21:07
>>> To: How to use Revolution
>>> Subject: Rel: Discrete Browser 1.3 - the borg release
>>>
>>>
>>> A new version of the Discrete Browser is here under the mango tree
>>> (aaah, the inspiring sounds that drives this developper)!
>>>
>>> http://monsieurx.com/modules.php?name=Downloads&d_op=getit&lid=44
>>> Im still looking to scratch the guest can't download feature...
>>> Enjoy the stories, the sounds, the views! Enjoy your login and
>>> downloads, no popups or ads or banners or lame stories! ;)
>>>
>>> ;)
>>>
>>> So discrete is this small project that version 1.2 was this
>>> morning, 1.3 is here for the evening... V1.5 is a big paste
>>> job from XOS so hold your breath coz im integrating a zillion
>>> features at once ;).
>>>
>>> At the rate im adding features, it's gonna blow
>>> any browser you know! It may not have the most
>>> html-standard-respecting display but it will not
>>> loose one byte about what you download!
>>>
>>> A few novelties since last 1.0 mention are:
>>>
>>> - Google search (and many more to come)
>>> - wiki linkclicked support (other cgi's to be tested)
>>> - Added smart url guessing (monsieurx = www.monsieurx.com)
>>> - Added eventual failsafe for ftp links (ftp not really supported)
>>> - Finished the Favorites menu (delete with controlkey down, shiftkey
>>> reserved)
>>> - Fixed the source so that it displays the page instead of the
>>>   filtered html, and also smarter format displays (many more to come)
>>>
>>> To disperse some rumors that Im rebuilding yet another browser...
>>> or just another dumb browser... XOS GUI is coming...
>>>
>>> -
>>>
>>> If you want to pitch in, I'll send you the feature dev plan or
>>> come and chat @ monsieurx.com! Hit that "SPChat" module!
>>> http://monsieurx.com/modules.php?name=SPChat
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> use-revolution mailing list
>>> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>> _______________________________________________
>> use-revolution mailing list
>> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>>
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>


From xbury.cs at clearstream.com  Tue Feb 17 05:41:42 2004
From: xbury.cs at clearstream.com (xbury.cs at clearstream.com)
Date: Tue, 17 Feb 2004 11:41:42 +0100
Subject: Discrete Browser 1.4 - Yet Another  release
Message-ID: <OFD2682FBB.A792E7D8-ONC1256E3D.003A81F7-C1256E3D.003ABFD7@deutsche-boerse.de>

Thanks for the compliment!
More of those and surely there will be lots of improvements...

As for the Apple Page not respectfully rendered, 
remember that the ouput is filtered for the RunRev
engine which can't display all tags (no tables, frames, etc...)...

So it's probably normal... I'll add an option to control if what you see 
is
the same in your prefered browser...

cheers
Xavier

On 17/02/2004 11:18:25 use-revolution-bounces wrote:
>Okay, that was supposed to not be on the list, but ah well.  My wishes
>are more along the lines of "wish I had gotten my rev license during
>the time when I could get Dan Shafer's book 1 on its own."
>
>Yours,
>Chris
>On Feb 17, 2004, at 4:11 AM, Christopher Mitchell wrote:
>
>> hey this is looking good man.  wish i had time to learn rev, but i
>> haven't yet. i'm running on OSX.  apple.com displays kind of funny..
>> if it doesn't on your end, i can send a screenshot later this week.
>>
>> Yours,
>> Chris
>> On Feb 17, 2004, at 2:07 AM, MisterX wrote:
>>
>>> Hi everyone,
>>>
>>> It's so simple when you design nice groups that work
>>> independently of the stack... Copy paste features!
>>>
>>> Here's release 1.4 with media lists, links, view menu (change the
>>> display font and size), and the upcoming (but disabled) filtering.
>>> Added a home page and new icons for your visual pleasure.
>>>
>>> Last release before the weekend...
>>>
>>> All comments and issues (specialy regarding Mac or Linux which I
>>> cant test for the moment) are welcome...
>>>
>>> Feature requests are open!
>>>
>>> Enjoy!
>>>
>>> Xavier
>>>
>>>
>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>> From: use-revolution-bounces at lists.runrev.com
>>>> [mailto:use-revolution-bounces at lists.runrev.com]On Behalf Of MisterX
>>>> Sent: Monday, February 16, 2004 21:07
>>>> To: How to use Revolution
>>>> Subject: Rel: Discrete Browser 1.3 - the borg release
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> A new version of the Discrete Browser is here under the mango tree
>>>> (aaah, the inspiring sounds that drives this developper)!
>>>>
>>>> http://monsieurx.com/modules.php?name=Downloads&d_op=getit&lid=44
>>>> Im still looking to scratch the guest can't download feature...
>>>> Enjoy the stories, the sounds, the views! Enjoy your login and
>>>> downloads, no popups or ads or banners or lame stories! ;)
>>>>
>>>> ;)
>>>>
>>>> So discrete is this small project that version 1.2 was this
>>>> morning, 1.3 is here for the evening... V1.5 is a big paste
>>>> job from XOS so hold your breath coz im integrating a zillion
>>>> features at once ;).
>>>>
>>>> At the rate im adding features, it's gonna blow
>>>> any browser you know! It may not have the most
>>>> html-standard-respecting display but it will not
>>>> loose one byte about what you download!
>>>>
>>>> A few novelties since last 1.0 mention are:
>>>>
>>>> - Google search (and many more to come)
>>>> - wiki linkclicked support (other cgi's to be tested)
>>>> - Added smart url guessing (monsieurx = www.monsieurx.com)
>>>> - Added eventual failsafe for ftp links (ftp not really supported)
>>>> - Finished the Favorites menu (delete with controlkey down, shiftkey
>>>> reserved)
>>>> - Fixed the source so that it displays the page instead of the
>>>>   filtered html, and also smarter format displays (many more to come)
>>>>
>>>> To disperse some rumors that Im rebuilding yet another browser...
>>>> or just another dumb browser... XOS GUI is coming...
>>>>
>>>> -
>>>>
>>>> If you want to pitch in, I'll send you the feature dev plan or
>>>> come and chat @ monsieurx.com! Hit that "SPChat" module!
>>>> http://monsieurx.com/modules.php?name=SPChat
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> use-revolution mailing list
>>>> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
>>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> use-revolution mailing list
>>> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> use-revolution mailing list
>> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>>
>
>_______________________________________________
>use-revolution mailing list
>use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
>http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution

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From alex at harryscollar.com  Tue Feb 17 06:03:17 2004
From: alex at harryscollar.com (Alex Shaw)
Date: Tue, 17 Feb 2004 21:03:17 +1000
Subject: rev at devchannel
In-Reply-To: <20040217061021.3B5299300F7@mail.runrev.com>
References: <20040217061021.3B5299300F7@mail.runrev.com>
Message-ID: <6.0.1.1.0.20040217210150.026a9308@pop-server.bigpond.net.au>

hi,

http://www.devchannel.org/devtoolschannel/04/02/02/1939223.shtml

rev's in the news again

regards

alex


From nrkweto03 at hotmail.com  Tue Feb 17 06:11:47 2004
From: nrkweto03 at hotmail.com (kweto)
Date: Tue, 17 Feb 2004 20:11:47 +0900
Subject: set fileName -- inconsistent behaviour on Win OS's
Message-ID: <LAW9-OE231ndcx3Vp2000005f4f@hotmail.com>

Hello,

A stack/distribution I made has no problems setting on the fly the fileName
for each of 124 image objects on Win98 and WinME. However, on Win2K and
WinXP, only the first 12 to 14 image objects display properly the images
assigned them thru the fileName setting;  after that, from about the 13th
image object or so onwards, the image objects remain blank and, instead,
it's the group's background, the card itself, or, if I'm in debugging mode,
even the script window and the variables window, which will display one
after another the remaining fileName-designated images (each image is a very
large +700Kb jpg digital camera photo).

Having already double-checked the obvious, such as making sure all the image
objects are locked and setting the stack's buffer on and off (any other
obvious things I've missed?), I'm now taking the next step and asking the
list for ideas about why this inconsitency.

Thanks.

Nicolas Cueto

From nrkweto03 at hotmail.com  Tue Feb 17 06:21:32 2004
From: nrkweto03 at hotmail.com (kweto)
Date: Tue, 17 Feb 2004 20:21:32 +0900
Subject: Japanese keyboard layout
Message-ID: <Law9-OE46BUrBPGS9Z80001bb66@hotmail.com>

Hello (again!),

Having just switched from MC to RunRec the other day, I was surprised to
find while scripting that RunRev's keyboard layout doesn't automatically
adapt itself to my actual keyboard layout, i.e., Japanese 102 key.

Short of relabelling the upper-row characters on my keyboard, is there a way
of fixing this within RunRev? If it means anything, I'm on Win2k with the
keyboard of course set to Japanese.

Thank you.

Nicolas Cueto

From 3mcgrath at adelphia.net  Tue Feb 17 07:38:34 2004
From: 3mcgrath at adelphia.net (Thomas McGrath III)
Date: Tue, 17 Feb 2004 07:38:34 -0500
Subject: Fields blew North
In-Reply-To: <BC56D590.507C%pixelbird@interisland.net>
References: <BC56D590.507C%pixelbird@interisland.net>
Message-ID: <33610C08-6146-11D8-AC9A-000A95DA60FA@adelphia.net>

Ken,

Did you sneeze?


Tom
On Feb 16, 2004, at 11:16 PM, Ken Norris wrote:

> OK, here's a mystery:
>
> I have an Anchor window, a palette window and two nearly identical 
> standard
> windows.
>
> For no reason I can imagine a field (the 'same' field) in each of the 
> two
> standard windows disappeared. I didn't know if they got deleted or
> what...haven't run across this behavior before. I found them in the
> Application Browser and got the Inspector to show the settings.
>
>
> Oddly, both of them had gotten blown out the top of their respective
> windows. Both showed a loc of -83, way above the Arctic Circle. 
> Fortunately,
> I was able to use the Browser to 4WD them separately down through the 
> tundra
> and back into their windows.
>
> Everything is back to normal...._but_, I need to know what the heck
> happened.
>
> Any clues?
>
> TIA,
> Ken N.
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>
>

Thomas J. McGrath III
SCS
1000 Killarney Dr.
Pittsburgh, PA 15234
412-885-8541


From doug at webcrossing.com  Tue Feb 17 07:57:36 2004
From: doug at webcrossing.com (Doug Lerner)
Date: Tue, 17 Feb 2004 21:57:36 +0900
Subject: Japanese keyboard layout
In-Reply-To: <Law9-OE46BUrBPGS9Z80001bb66@hotmail.com>
Message-ID: <BC583ED0.2714B%doug@webcrossing.com>

Which keys are not showing up right? This seems to work on a Mac OS X
Japanese keyboard...

doug

On 2/17/04 8:21 PM, "kweto" <nrkweto03 at hotmail.com> wrote:

> Hello (again!),
> 
> Having just switched from MC to RunRec the other day, I was surprised to
> find while scripting that RunRev's keyboard layout doesn't automatically
> adapt itself to my actual keyboard layout, i.e., Japanese 102 key.
> 
> Short of relabelling the upper-row characters on my keyboard, is there a way
> of fixing this within RunRev? If it means anything, I'm on Win2k with the
> keyboard of course set to Japanese.
> 
> Thank you.
> 
> Nicolas Cueto
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution


From bvg at mac.com  Tue Feb 17 07:58:23 2004
From: bvg at mac.com (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Bj=F6rnke_von_Gierke?=)
Date: Tue, 17 Feb 2004 13:58:23 +0100
Subject: How to "do" this
In-Reply-To: <698DFC30-60E8-11D8-B6F2-003065CC999E@pi.be>
Message-ID: <F8489C38-6148-11D8-9D5A-003065AD94A4@mac.com>

Oh thank you, very helpful. I should have thought about precalculating 
the value...

On Dienstag, Feb 17, 2004, at 02:27 Europe/Zurich, Wouter wrote:

>
> On 17 Feb 2004, at 02:13, use-revolution-request at lists.runrev.com 
> wrote:
>
>> Message: 1
>> Date: Mon, 16 Feb 2004 21:22:38 +0100
>> From: Bj?rnke von Gierke<bvg at mac.com>
>> Subject: Re: How to "do" this
>> To: How to use Revolution <use-revolution at lists.runrev.com>
>> Message-ID: <DD31228E-60BD-11D8-9D5A-003065AD94A4 at mac.com>
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
>>
>>
>> On Montag, Feb 16, 2004, at 18:21 Europe/Zurich, Dar Scott wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> On Monday, February 16, 2004, at 09:22 AM, Bj?rnke von Gierke wrote:
>>>
>>>>   repeat with x = 1 to the number of (theO && "s") in stack theS
>>>
>>> Is (theO && "s") intended to evaluate something like "fields"?  Then
>>> you have a typo.  You need & instead of &&.
>>
>> Oh yes i saw that, but it does not help :(
>>
>>>
>>> I didn't realize that <objectType> could be an expression here.
>>
>> well maybe that is why it does not work... I probably have to make a
>> switch and do the repeat for each object type separately...
>>
>>> There is so much I don't know about object detailed syntax.
>>> Especially when it comes to runtime evaluation and quoted strings.
>>
>> Same here
>>
>
>
> If your handler is not supposed to capture the fields contents or
> keep previous list if the number of cards = 0 then better change to 
> the following
>
> on mouseDown
>   --Button "Object" = Field
>   put the label of Button "Object" into theO
>   put the label of Button "Object"&"s" into theOs
>   --button "stack name" = the name of a open stack
>   put the label of button "Stack name" into theS
>   do "put the number of " & theOs& " in stack " & quote &theS &quote & 
> " into nof"
>   if nof = 0 then put "no fields" into me
>   else
>     repeat with x = 1 to nof
>       do "put the name of" && theO && x && "of stack" && quote & theS 
> & quote && "& return after tbox"
>     end repeat
>     filter tbox with "*"
>     put tbox into me
>   end if
> end mouseDown
>
> Regards,
> WA
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>


From rcozens at pon.net  Tue Feb 17 08:43:07 2004
From: rcozens at pon.net (Rob Cozens)
Date: Tue, 17 Feb 2004 06:43:07 -0700
Subject: Transcript and/or ECMA
Message-ID: <a05100300bc57c4d34547@[66.52.165.45]>

Hi All,

I must be a real foole: in thirty years of programming involving at 
least 10 programming languages it never occurred to me to suggest to 
the creator of the language I was currently learning to change the 
syntax to incorporate syntax from another language.  Rather, I 
assumed there was some unifying logic behind the syntax that tailored 
that language to perform the role its creator(s) had in mind at its 
inception.

Frankly, I feel that those who suggest syntax changes to Transcript 
with no better justification than "it will make the Transcript more 
acceptable to java scriptors" or "it will make Transcript seem more 
profession to C programmers" are missing the point:  Transcript is 
Transcript, javascript is javascript, and C is C.  If you want java 
syntax, script in javascript, if you want C syntax, program in C.

And if you want changes in Transcript syntax, PLEASE offer a better 
reason than "it will help programmers with experience on other 
platforms."  IMFO, those programmers are better served by learning 
many languages as each presents itself; thus broadening their arsenal 
of problem-solving approaches.
-- 

Rob Cozens
CCW, Serendipity Software Company
http://www.oenolog.net/who.htm

"And I, which was two fooles, do so grow three;
Who are a little wise, the best fooles bee."

from "The Triple Foole" by John Donne (1572-1631)

From psahores at easynet.fr  Tue Feb 17 10:32:31 2004
From: psahores at easynet.fr (Pierre Sahores)
Date: 17 Feb 2004 16:32:31 +0100
Subject: Announcement : IBook Ice 2.2 Apple's video-chipster extention of
	garantie to 3 years
Message-ID: <1077031951.2777.15.camel@www.kmax.ici>

Hello All,

All the owners of Ibook Ice 2.2 have to go back to the
Computer store in about a video-chipster possible problem. Apple extends
the garanty to three years about this. Mine are both back to Apple...
and i just brought an (hopefull more suitable) PWB G4 to avoid more
desagrements...
-- 
Bien cordialement, Pierre Sahores

100, rue de Paris
F - 77140 Nemours

psahores at easynet.fr

GSM:   +33 6 03 95 77 70
Pro:   +33 1 41 60 52 68
Dom:   +33 1 64 45 05 33
Fax:   +33 1 64 45 05 33

Inspection acad?mique de Seine-Saint-Denis
Applications et SGBD ACID SQL (WEB et PGI)
Penser et produire "delta de productivit?"

From xbury.cs at clearstream.com  Tue Feb 17 10:59:39 2004
From: xbury.cs at clearstream.com (xbury.cs at clearstream.com)
Date: Tue, 17 Feb 2004 16:59:39 +0100
Subject: Transcript and/or ECMA
Message-ID: <OF67E2C5C6.CBFC3D8B-ONC1256E3D.00573567-C1256E3D.0057DBE9@deutsche-boerse.de>

I agree with Rob.

But it's true that you can write 
local c=5

and c=5 is considerable shorter 
and more readable than put 5 into c...

Just that would be a nice addition...

cheers
---------------------=---------------------
Xavier Bury
Clearstream Services
TNS NT LAN Server
ext 36465
Voice: +352 4656 43 6465
Fax: +352 4656 493 6465




Rob Cozens <rcozens at pon.net>
Sent by: use-revolution-bounces at lists.runrev.com
17/02/04 14:43
Please respond to How to use Revolution

 
        To:     How to use Revolution <use-revolution at lists.runrev.com>
        cc: 
        Subject:        Re: Transcript and/or ECMA

.


Hi All,

I must be a real foole: in thirty years of programming involving at 
least 10 programming languages it never occurred to me to suggest to 
the creator of the language I was currently learning to change the 
syntax to incorporate syntax from another language.  Rather, I 
assumed there was some unifying logic behind the syntax that tailored 
that language to perform the role its creator(s) had in mind at its 
inception.

Frankly, I feel that those who suggest syntax changes to Transcript 
with no better justification than "it will make the Transcript more 
acceptable to java scriptors" or "it will make Transcript seem more 
profession to C programmers" are missing the point:  Transcript is 
Transcript, javascript is javascript, and C is C.  If you want java 
syntax, script in javascript, if you want C syntax, program in C.

And if you want changes in Transcript syntax, PLEASE offer a better 
reason than "it will help programmers with experience on other 
platforms."  IMFO, those programmers are better served by learning 
many languages as each presents itself; thus broadening their arsenal 
of problem-solving approaches.
-- 

Rob Cozens
CCW, Serendipity Software Company
http://www.oenolog.net/who.htm

"And I, which was two fooles, do so grow three;
Who are a little wise, the best fooles bee."

from "The Triple Foole" by John Donne (1572-1631)
_______________________________________________
use-revolution mailing list
use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution




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From gizmotron at earthlink.net  Tue Feb 17 12:07:30 2004
From: gizmotron at earthlink.net (Mark Brownell)
Date: Tue, 17 Feb 2004 09:07:30 -0800
Subject: OceanBrowser 1.0 - call for beta testers
In-Reply-To: <3D9FB406-60BA-11D8-912E-003065F97100@oceanbrowser.com>
Message-ID: <C54C0FFC-616B-11D8-84A4-000A95859272@earthlink.net>


On Monday, February 16, 2004, at 11:56  AM, Rodney Tamblyn wrote:

> Hi everyone,
>
> I am completing development of a new application called OceanBrowser, 
> which I am planning to release in four weeks.  I would be interested 
> in recruiting a small group of beta testers to participate in late 
> stage testing of this product.

Rodney,

I would like to test it. I have XP Pro on a new IBM notepad. I'm not 
sure if this will help but I can open programs in older OS modes. I 
don't know if this is part of XP's capabilities but it's something I've 
been using to test older platforms with.

Just let me know.

Mark Brownell

P.S. I got this while trying to email you off list:
<rodney at oceanbrowser.com>... User unknown

and your website link is a dud at this time: 
http://www.oceanbrowser.com/


From rcozens at pon.net  Tue Feb 17 11:21:34 2004
From: rcozens at pon.net (Rob Cozens)
Date: Tue, 17 Feb 2004 09:21:34 -0700
Subject: What Triggers the nameChanged Message?
Message-ID: <a05100300bc57ee6fa722@[66.52.165.219]>

Hi Again,

According to the Rev Dictionary, a nameChanged message is sent to an 
object when its name is changed.

I tried a generic on nameChanged handler in a stack and a specific 
nameChanged handler in a field.  Neither "set the name of field ..." 
nor changing the name of the field via its properties palette 
triggered either namehanged handler, and the Message Watcher does not 
display one.

????

RR 2.1.2, Mac OS 10.2
-- 

Rob Cozens
CCW, Serendipity Software Company
http://www.oenolog.net/who.htm

"And I, which was two fooles, do so grow three;
Who are a little wise, the best fooles bee."

from "The Triple Foole" by John Donne (1572-1631)

From rcozens at pon.net  Tue Feb 17 11:27:10 2004
From: rcozens at pon.net (Rob Cozens)
Date: Tue, 17 Feb 2004 09:27:10 -0700
Subject: Transcript and/or ECMA
In-Reply-To:  <OF67E2C5C6.CBFC3D8B-ONC1256E3D.00573567-C1256E3D.0057DBE9@deutsche-boerse
 .de>
References:  <OF67E2C5C6.CBFC3D8B-ONC1256E3D.00573567-C1256E3D.0057DBE9@deutsche-boerse
 .de>
Message-ID: <a05100303bc57f0cc3564@[66.52.165.166]>

>and c=5 is considerable shorter
>and more readable than put 5 into c...
>
>Just that would be a nice addition...

Except for those who already use (c=5) syntax to set boolean 
variables in Transcript... which I do all the time.
-- 

Rob Cozens
CCW, Serendipity Software Company
http://www.oenolog.net/who.htm

"And I, which was two fooles, do so grow three;
Who are a little wise, the best fooles bee."

from "The Triple Foole" by John Donne (1572-1631)

From rcozens at pon.net  Tue Feb 17 11:36:01 2004
From: rcozens at pon.net (Rob Cozens)
Date: Tue, 17 Feb 2004 09:36:01 -0700
Subject: Transcript and/or ECMA
Message-ID: <a05100300bc57f2739888@[66.52.165.166]>

Mr. X, et al:

>and c=5 is considerable shorter
>and more readable than put 5 into c...
>
>Just that would be a nice addition...

>>Except for those who already use (c=5) syntax to set boolean 
>>variables in Transcript... which I do all the time.

And, BTW, isn't

put (field 6 = empty) into skipField6

considerably shorter than

if field 6 = empty then put true into skipField6 else put false into skipField6

?

:{`)
-- 

Rob Cozens
CCW, Serendipity Software Company
http://www.oenolog.net/who.htm

"And I, which was two fooles, do so grow three;
Who are a little wise, the best fooles bee."

from "The Triple Foole" by John Donne (1572-1631)

From hershbp at realtorsgroup.us  Tue Feb 17 13:41:25 2004
From: hershbp at realtorsgroup.us (hershrev)
Date: Tue, 17 Feb 2004 13:41:25 -0500
Subject: control scructure repeat and next line
In-Reply-To: <D8436504-610F-11D8-A662-0003937A97B8@genesearch.com.au>
Message-ID: <E3B888E4-6178-11D8-9F90-0030654C1E62@realtorsgroup.us>


On Tuesday, February 17, 2004, at 01:09 AM, Sarah Reichelt wrote:

>> 1) the repeat structure  I want to do a repeat till the end of a list 
>> or end of file ? I did relies the repeat for each , I don't 
>> understand the logic behind it. how to use it
>
> repeat for each line L in myList
So the "L" is a variable that automatically initializes to 1 ?
>   -- first time through, L contains line 1
>   doStuff L   -- your script for processing the line
>   -- next time through the loop, L contains line 2 and so on
> end repeat
>
>> 2) which command tells to move to the next line (and then to  "put 
>> the selectedText into myVar"), by words I "put word myWord in a 
>> repeat so it just keeps on moving. ?
> "end repeat" tells it to start the loop again and with "repeat for 
> each", it automatically goes on to the next line. By way of example, 
> here is an identical loop in a format that might seem more familiar:
>
> repeat with x = 1 to the number of lines in myList
>   put line x of myList into L
>   doStuff L
> end repeat
>
> However, "repeat for each" is MUCH faster and once you get used to the 
> construct, very easy to write.
>
>> sorry for this silly question
>> and by the way a question , why selectedText , selectedLine, don't 
>> return the same data type . The selectedLine returns the line # and 
>> the selectedText returns the text itself  , shouldn't  the 
>> seletedLine return the string of the line as well ? isn't an 
>> inconsistency ?
> They do different things. The names of the properties may seem 
> inconsistent to you, but all the chunking expressions get different 
> segments of the data and there doesn't seem to be any reason why they 
> should overlap. If you have a more precise need, then write your own 
> function that combines some of the chunking expressions to give you 
> exactly the information you want.
Thanks, hershrev
>
> Cheers,
> Sarah
> sarahr at genesearch.com.au
> http://www.troz.net/Rev/
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>


From dsc at swcp.com  Tue Feb 17 13:59:42 2004
From: dsc at swcp.com (Dar Scott)
Date: Tue, 17 Feb 2004 11:59:42 -0700
Subject: control scructure repeat and next line
In-Reply-To: <E3B888E4-6178-11D8-9F90-0030654C1E62@realtorsgroup.us>
Message-ID: <71DEF4B4-617B-11D8-AEA6-000A9567A3E6@swcp.com>


On Tuesday, February 17, 2004, at 11:41 AM, hershrev wrote:

>> repeat for each line L in myList
> So the "L" is a variable that automatically initializes to 1 ?
>>   -- first time through, L contains line 1
>>   doStuff L   -- your script for processing the line
>>   -- next time through the loop, L contains line 2 and so on
>> end repeat

It contains the value of line 1.  That is, line one without any line 
delimiters.

I like to think of it as a constant rather than a variable, a constant 
that is new each time through.

The Revolution style is to put item and line delimiters between datums, 
but it will also accommodate putting them after datums.  This is 
important in representing empty datums.  If datums are never empty, 
then putting delimiters between is fine.  I mention this, in case you 
are surprised about how many lines are processed in such a loop.

Dar Scott


From pixelbird at interisland.net  Tue Feb 17 14:29:29 2004
From: pixelbird at interisland.net (Ken Norris)
Date: Tue, 17 Feb 2004 11:29:29 -0800
Subject: Fields blew North
In-Reply-To: <20040217125907.BC99F93015C@mail.runrev.com>
Message-ID: <BC57AB99.50AA%pixelbird@interisland.net>

Hi Thomas,

> Message: 7
> Date: Tue, 17 Feb 2004 07:38:34 -0500
> From: Thomas McGrath III <3mcgrath at adelphia.net>
> Subject: Re: Fields blew North
> 
> Ken,
> 
> Did you sneeze?
-----------
Heh, heh...
Actually, that's probably a valid Q where I am this time of year (lots of
flu bug going around). I can see someone sneezing and accidentally clicking
;-)

...but no. I still have no clue why it happened, and I don't want to be
chasing flyaway objects. There were no scripts in any fields, nor any that
referred to them, i.e., it's just a layout shell.

The only currently working scripts are these:

1) In a dropdown menu button of the control palette:

on mouseUp
  get selectedText(me)
  open stack it
  go stack it
end mouseUp

2) In the Stack script of the control palette:

on moveStack
  global gDockCon
  get the loc of stack "Helping Hands Con"
  add (width of stack "Helping Hands Con"/2) to item 1 of it
    put the rect of stack topStack() into topSRect
    subtract 323 from item 3 of topSRect
    if it is within topSRect then
    get the topleft of stack topStack()
    subtract 176 from item 1 of it
    add 16 to item 2 of it
    set the topleft of stack "Helping Hands Con" to it
    put "docked" into gDockCon
    set the hidePalettes to true
  else
    put empty into gDockCon
    set the hidePalettes to false
  end if
  --pass moveStack
end moveStack

3) In the Stack Script of each of the other two windows:

on moveStack
  global gDockCon
  if gDockCon is empty then
    exit moveStack 
  else 
    get topleft of this stack
    subtract 176 from item 1 of it
    add 16 to item 2 of it
    set topleft of stack "Helping Hands Con" to it
  end if
  pass moveStack
end moveStack

...That's all there is at the moment.

Thanks for looking,
Ken N.




From hershbp at realtorsgroup.us  Tue Feb 17 14:32:36 2004
From: hershbp at realtorsgroup.us (hershrev)
Date: Tue, 17 Feb 2004 14:32:36 -0500
Subject: control scructure repeat and next line
In-Reply-To: <71DEF4B4-617B-11D8-AEA6-000A9567A3E6@swcp.com>
Message-ID: <0AA0167E-6180-11D8-9F90-0030654C1E62@realtorsgroup.us>


On Tuesday, February 17, 2004, at 01:59 PM, Dar Scott wrote:

>
> On Tuesday, February 17, 2004, at 11:41 AM, hershrev wrote:
>
>>> repeat for each line L in myList
>> So the "L" is a variable that automatically initializes to 1 ?
>>>   -- first time through, L contains line 1
>>>   doStuff L   -- your script for processing the line
>>>   -- next time through the loop, L contains line 2 and so on
>>> end repeat
>
> It contains the value of line 1.  That is, line one without any line 
> delimiters.
>
> I like to think of it as a constant rather than a variable, a constant 
> that is new each time through.
>
> The Revolution style is to put item and line delimiters between 
> datums, but it will also accommodate putting them after datums.  This 
> is important in representing empty datums.  If datums are never empty, 
> then putting delimiters between is fine.  I mention this, in case you 
> are surprised about how many lines are processed in such a loop.
Sorry to say , but I don't know what datums are.
>
> Dar Scott
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>


From dsc at swcp.com  Tue Feb 17 14:37:47 2004
From: dsc at swcp.com (Dar Scott)
Date: Tue, 17 Feb 2004 12:37:47 -0700
Subject: control scructure repeat and next line
In-Reply-To: <0AA0167E-6180-11D8-9F90-0030654C1E62@realtorsgroup.us>
Message-ID: <C3C2FA78-6180-11D8-AEA6-000A9567A3E6@swcp.com>


On Tuesday, February 17, 2004, at 12:32 PM, hershrev wrote:

>> The Revolution style is to put item and line delimiters between 
>> datums, but it will also accommodate putting them after datums.  This 
>> is important in representing empty datums.  If datums are never 
>> empty, then putting delimiters between is fine.  I mention this, in 
>> case you are surprised about how many lines are processed in such a 
>> loop.
> Sorry to say , but I don't know what datums are.

Sorry.

I mean pieces of information.  I tried to use this for a more general 
term for lines and items.  Lines use a "line end" or "new line" 
character as a delimiter (often called 'return' in Revolution).  Item 
typically use a comma as a delimiter.

Since you are working with lines, I should have stuck with "lines".  
There is no Revolution jargon called datum, as far as I know; this is 
all my fault.

Dar Scott


From jacque at hyperactivesw.com  Tue Feb 17 14:41:18 2004
From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay)
Date: Tue, 17 Feb 2004 13:41:18 -0600
Subject: Fields blew North
In-Reply-To: <BC57AB99.50AA%pixelbird@interisland.net>
References: <BC57AB99.50AA%pixelbird@interisland.net>
Message-ID: <40326E5E.30605@hyperactivesw.com>

On 2/17/04 1:29 PM, Ken Norris wrote:

> There were no scripts in any fields, nor any that
> referred to them, i.e., it's just a layout shell.

Were you, by chance, playing with the geometry manager at any point?

-- 
Jacqueline Landman Gay         |     jacque at hyperactivesw.com
HyperActive Software           |     http://www.hyperactivesw.com

From klaus at major-k.de  Tue Feb 17 14:41:29 2004
From: klaus at major-k.de (Klaus Major)
Date: Tue, 17 Feb 2004 20:41:29 +0100
Subject: control scructure repeat and next line
In-Reply-To: <C3C2FA78-6180-11D8-AEA6-000A9567A3E6@swcp.com>
References: <C3C2FA78-6180-11D8-AEA6-000A9567A3E6@swcp.com>
Message-ID: <47E79050-6181-11D8-9CA6-000A27B49A96@major-k.de>

Hi Dar,

> On Tuesday, February 17, 2004, at 12:32 PM, hershrev wrote:
>
>>> The Revolution style is to put item and line delimiters between 
>>> datums,
>>> but it will also accommodate putting them after datums.  This is 
>>> important
>>> in representing empty datums.  If datums are never empty, then 
>>> putting
>>> delimiters between is fine.  I mention this, in case you are 
>>> surprised about
>>> how many lines are processed in such a loop.
>> Sorry to say , but I don't know what datums are.
>
> Sorry.
>
> I mean pieces of information.  I tried to use this for a more general 
> term for
> lines and items.  Lines use a "line end" or "new line" character as a 
> delimiter
> (often called 'return' in Revolution).  Item typically use a comma as 
> a delimiter.
>
> Since you are working with lines, I should have stuck with "lines".  
> There is no
> Revolution jargon called datum, as far as I know; this is all my fault.

I was also a bit puzzled, since "datum" is the german word for "date" 
:-)

> Dar Scott

Regards

Klaus Major
klaus at major-k.de
www.major-k.de


From pixelbird at interisland.net  Tue Feb 17 14:47:34 2004
From: pixelbird at interisland.net (Ken Norris)
Date: Tue, 17 Feb 2004 11:47:34 -0800
Subject: sounds/telephony
In-Reply-To: <20040217101232.E0885930126@mail.runrev.com>
Message-ID: <BC57AFD6.50AC%pixelbird@interisland.net>

Howdy,

> Date: Mon, 16 Feb 2004 23:13:05 -0800
> From: Ken Norris <pixelbird at interisland.net>
> Subject: Re: sounds/telephony

> if "Tone" is in the userProps of the target then
> play forever (line 1 of the Tone of the target)
> end if
-----------
Of course, to be clear, releasing the mouse or a keypress does this:

play stop

...Just thought maybe I should mention that ;-)

Ken N.


From b.xavier at internet.lu  Tue Feb 17 15:11:36 2004
From: b.xavier at internet.lu (MisterX)
Date: Tue, 17 Feb 2004 21:11:36 +0100
Subject: Transcript and/or ECMA - guess who started it?
In-Reply-To: <a05100303bc57f0cc3564@[66.52.165.166]>
Message-ID: <ENEALNOCJBOOOHHCCEKNCEGAFNAA.b.xavier@internet.lu>


Scott started it with /* and */ and // ;)

dont:
local afld=fld "test"

do:
local q=quote
do "local" && varname & " = fld" && q & afieldname & q

XX) (it's a race car)



> -----Original Message-----
> From: use-revolution-bounces at lists.runrev.com
> [mailto:use-revolution-bounces at lists.runrev.com]On Behalf Of Rob Cozens
> Sent: Tuesday, February 17, 2004 17:27
> To: How to use Revolution
> Subject: Re: Transcript and/or ECMA
> 
> 
> >and c=5 is considerable shorter
> >and more readable than put 5 into c...
> >
> >Just that would be a nice addition...
> 
> Except for those who already use (c=5) syntax to set boolean 
> variables in Transcript... which I do all the time.
> -- 
> 
> Rob Cozens
> CCW, Serendipity Software Company
> http://www.oenolog.net/who.htm
> 
> "And I, which was two fooles, do so grow three;
> Who are a little wise, the best fooles bee."
> 
> from "The Triple Foole" by John Donne (1572-1631)
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution

From dsc at swcp.com  Tue Feb 17 15:48:00 2004
From: dsc at swcp.com (Dar Scott)
Date: Tue, 17 Feb 2004 13:48:00 -0700
Subject: Style:  Select Grouped Controls
In-Reply-To: <99E21F0A-60B6-11D8-A69F-000A9567A3E6@swcp.com>
Message-ID: <92FA78C4-618A-11D8-AEA6-000A9567A3E6@swcp.com>


On Monday, February 16, 2004, at 12:30 PM, Dar Scott wrote:

> I am more than just curious; this might affect how I deliver custom 
> controls.  It is certainly not my intent to start any religious wars.  
> We seem to have different ways of getting things done; I'd like to 
> learn from that of others.
>
> I wonder how folks use "Select Grouped Controls".

I think we are seeing a wide range of usage.

For me, I usually think of a group as an atomic single special control 
or sometimes as a background (whether set so or not).  Usually, it is 
the first.  I think that is why I leave select grouped controls off.  
To me, the group has become a single control.  Once I make a group I 
don't want to think about the innards.  This is part of my approach to 
keeping things simple.

I'd like to understand the motivation for leaving it on.  Are groups 
for you essentially for sharing controls among cards in multiple 
placement?  Are groups a way to insert scripts into the message path.  
That is, why use groups?

Dar Scott


From gizmotron at earthlink.net  Tue Feb 17 15:57:39 2004
From: gizmotron at earthlink.net (Mark Brownell)
Date: Tue, 17 Feb 2004 12:57:39 -0800
Subject: Windows Application Icon
In-Reply-To: <ACEELABEAIANJNCEJFMAAEACIOAA.chipp@chipp.com>
Message-ID: <EC3994FD-618B-11D8-89BF-000A95859272@earthlink.net>


On Monday, February 16, 2004, at 11:05  PM, Chipp Walters wrote:

> Mark,
> Here's some stuff from ButtonGadget which might help. I believe it  
> will do
> what you need it to (ButtonGadget extension is .plg). I put
> doRegistryStuffin the startup handler, so it runs each time.
>
>  put tPath&",1" into tVar
>   if queryregistry("HKEY_CLASSES_ROOT\ButtonGadget\DefaultIcon\") <>  
> tVar
> then
>     get setRegistry("HKEY_CLASSES_ROOT\ButtonGadget\DefaultIcon\",tVar)
>   end if

AND

On Tuesday, February 17, 2004, at 02:11  AM, rodney tamblyn wrote:

> I don't know if this is relevant to the discussion, but you may need  
> to set a registry entry to map the icon number to your file type, this  
> is from the Metacard list archives:
>
> http://www.faqchest.com/prgm/hypertalk/metac-01/metac-0103/ 
> metac01032004_07477.html
>
> ~ Rodney
>
> -- register a defaultIcon for the file type
> get setRegistry("HKEY_CLASSES_ROOT\FileView\DefaultIcon\", "C:\Program
> Files\FileView 1.0\FileView.exe,1")
> -- The 1 is the document icon of the executable. Icon 0 is the default
> executable icon.

Hi,

This is what I did and this is what regEdit reports happened. Take note  
that I forced Windows to recognize the document icons and it added two  
lines to the regEdit for Intuition:


   get setRegistry("HKEY_CLASSES_ROOT\.mtml\","Intuition")

   get setRegistry("HKEY_CLASSES_ROOT\Intuition\","Intuition MTML  
document")

   get  
setRegistry("HKEY_CLASSES_ROOT\Intuition\DefaultIcon\","C:\Program  
Files\Intuiion\Intuition.exe,1")

   get  
setRegistry("HKEY_CLASSES_ROOT\Intuition\shell\open\command\","C:\Progra 
m Files\Intuiion\Intuition.exe %1")

RegEdit results: Please take note that the entry for  
HKEY_CLASSES_ROOT\Intuition\DefaultIcon data = 0. Is this what you get  
after setRegistry() for DefaultIcon set to ,1  ?

Key Name:          HKEY_CLASSES_ROOT\.mtml
Class Name:        <NO CLASS>
Last Write Time:   2/14/2004 - 12:21 PM
Value 0
   Name:            <NO NAME>
   Type:            REG_SZ
   Data:            Intuition

-------------------------------------

Key Name:          HKEY_CLASSES_ROOT\Intuition
Class Name:        <NO CLASS>
Last Write Time:   2/14/2004 - 1:52 PM
Value 0
   Name:            <NO NAME>
   Type:            REG_SZ
   Data:            Intuition MTML document

Value 1
   Name:            EditFlags
   Type:            REG_DWORD
   Data:            0x0

Value 2
   Name:            BrowserFlags
   Type:            REG_DWORD
   Data:            0x8

Key Name:          HKEY_CLASSES_ROOT\Intuition\DefaultIcon
Class Name:        <NO CLASS>
Last Write Time:   2/14/2004 - 1:52 PM
Value 0
   Name:            <NO NAME>
   Type:            REG_SZ
   Data:            C:\Program Files\Intuition\mtmlMedia\Intuition.ico,0

Key Name:          HKEY_CLASSES_ROOT\Intuition\shell
Class Name:        <NO CLASS>
Last Write Time:   2/14/2004 - 1:52 PM
Value 0
   Name:            <NO NAME>
   Type:            REG_SZ
   Data:            open

Key Name:          HKEY_CLASSES_ROOT\Intuition\shell\open
Class Name:        <NO CLASS>
Last Write Time:   2/14/2004 - 1:52 PM

Key Name:          HKEY_CLASSES_ROOT\Intuition\shell\open\command
Class Name:        <NO CLASS>
Last Write Time:   2/14/2004 - 1:52 PM
Value 0
   Name:            <NO NAME>
   Type:            REG_SZ
   Data:            "C:\Program Files\Intuition\Intuition.exe" %1

Thanks,

Mark Brownell


From sjoerdoptland at s2theatertechniek.nl  Tue Feb 17 16:48:01 2004
From: sjoerdoptland at s2theatertechniek.nl (Sjoerd Op 't Land)
Date: Tue, 17 Feb 2004 22:48:01 +0100
Subject: Transcript and/or ECMA - guess who started it?
In-Reply-To: <ENEALNOCJBOOOHHCCEKNCEGAFNAA.b.xavier@internet.lu>
Message-ID: <BC584AA1.2BCA%sjoerdoptland@s2theatertechniek.nl>

MisterX wrote/ schreef:

> local afld=fld "test"
Please don't adopt this ugly C-like syntax...

Put into works fine. And if you want to have a shorter operator for this,
use :=, like Pascal. I mean, because of using '=' for 'becomes', they had to
use '==' (huu, very ugly) for a comparison. xTalks handle this nicely ('='
for a comparison), so don't clutter the language up with 'is' what should be
'becomes'.

Just my 2ct,
Sjoerd


From nrkweto03 at hotmail.com  Tue Feb 17 16:58:26 2004
From: nrkweto03 at hotmail.com (kweto)
Date: Wed, 18 Feb 2004 06:58:26 +0900
Subject: Japanese keyboard layout
References: <BC583ED0.2714B%doug@webcrossing.com>
Message-ID: <Law9-OE343ZPpAATnLE00007b10@hotmail.com>

> Which keys are not showing up right?

All the "caps" shown above the numbers on the top key row. Meaning, the
numbers work ok but not the "! " # $ % & ... ", which come out mismatched.
Also, nearly all the punctuation keys on the right-hand of each of the four
rows of keys punch out on screen differently from what's on the keys.

--
Nicolas Cueto

From pixelbird at interisland.net  Tue Feb 17 16:58:42 2004
From: pixelbird at interisland.net (Ken Norris)
Date: Tue, 17 Feb 2004 13:58:42 -0800
Subject: Fields blew North
In-Reply-To: <20040217194811.A25CC930089@mail.runrev.com>
Message-ID: <BC57CE91.50BD%pixelbird@interisland.net>

Hi Jacque,

> Date: Tue, 17 Feb 2004 13:41:18 -0600
> From: "J. Landman Gay" <jacque at hyperactivesw.com>
> Subject: Re: Fields blew North
> 
> On 2/17/04 1:29 PM, Ken Norris wrote:
> 
>> There were no scripts in any fields, nor any that
>> referred to them, i.e., it's just a layout shell.
> 
> Were you, by chance, playing with the geometry manager at any point?
----------
Nope. I could've accidenatally opened it, but I wouldn't have done anything
with it. This thing doesn't need it.

Thanks for the RE though, you never know...
Ken N.


From sanke at hrz.uni-kassel.de  Tue Feb 17 17:17:56 2004
From: sanke at hrz.uni-kassel.de (Wilhelm Sanke)
Date: Tue, 17 Feb 2004 23:17:56 +0100
Subject: Loading compressed JPG files from ftp-server
Message-ID: <40329314.8070704@hrz.uni-kassel.de>

Using

put  URL "ftp://ftp.whatever.com/pictures/image.jpg" into image "one"

works fine here for JPG-compression rates of about 10% for image 
file-sizes  down to about 50K (processed with PaintShopPro).

If I compress a JPG by 75% - file size about 16K - nothing happens.

This is on a WindowsXP machine.

Has anybody similar experiences or an explanation?

Regards,

Wilhelm Sanke




From kray at sonsothunder.com  Tue Feb 17 17:27:04 2004
From: kray at sonsothunder.com (Ken Ray)
Date: Tue, 17 Feb 2004 16:27:04 -0600
Subject: Style:  Select Grouped Controls
In-Reply-To: <92FA78C4-618A-11D8-AEA6-000A9567A3E6@swcp.com>
Message-ID: <005c01c3f5a5$2fa928d0$6601a8c0@LightningFlash>

> I'd like to understand the motivation for leaving it on.  Are groups 
> for you essentially for sharing controls among cards in multiple 
> placement?  Are groups a way to insert scripts into the 
> message path.  
> That is, why use groups?

I use groups primarily for interface purposes - i.e. an actual group of
onscreen controls. I turn on the border and the showName and set the
name properly, set the margin and I'm done. But I tend to leave
selectGroupedControls off until I need to access what's inside the
group.

Most of the time I don't use grouped controls for "background" behavior
or for script insertion (I use backscripts and libraries for that).

My $0.02,

Ken Ray
Sons of Thunder Software
Email: kray at sonsothunder.com
Web Site: http://www.sonsothunder.com/ 



From erikhans08 at yahoo.com  Tue Feb 17 17:29:05 2004
From: erikhans08 at yahoo.com (Erik Hansen)
Date: Tue, 17 Feb 2004 14:29:05 -0800 (PST)
Subject: OT Yahoo Privacy - lack of
In-Reply-To: <c0s6vv+jkkk@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <20040217222905.68218.qmail@web61110.mail.yahoo.com>


> FYI, This came to my attention, if its
> redundant, my apologies.
> 
> Yahoo is now using something called "Web
> Beacons" to track
> Yahoo Group users around the net and see what
> you're doing
> and where you are going - similar to cookies.
> Take a look at their
> updated privacy statement:
> 
>
http://privacy.yahoo.com/privacy/us/pixels/details.html
> 
> About half-way down the page, in the section
> "Outside the Yahoo!
> Network", you'll see a little "click here" link
> that will let you
> "opt-out" of their new method of snooping. I
> strongly recommend
> that you do this.
> 
> Once you have clicked that link, you are opted
> out. Notice the
> "Success" message the top the next page.
> 
> Be careful because on that page there is a
> "Cancel Opt-out"
> button that, if clicked, will *undo* the
> opt-out. Feel free to 
> forward
> this to other groups.


=====
erik at erikhansen.org    http://www.erikhansen.org

__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Finance: Get your refund fast by filing online.
http://taxes.yahoo.com/filing.html

From kray at sonsothunder.com  Tue Feb 17 17:42:17 2004
From: kray at sonsothunder.com (Ken Ray)
Date: Tue, 17 Feb 2004 16:42:17 -0600
Subject: Transcript and/or ECMA - guess who started it?
In-Reply-To: <BC584AA1.2BCA%sjoerdoptland@s2theatertechniek.nl>
Message-ID: <005d01c3f5a7$4f487cc0$6601a8c0@LightningFlash>


> Put into works fine. And if you want to have a shorter 
> operator for this, use :=, like Pascal. I mean, because of 
> using '=' for 'becomes', they had to use '==' (huu, very 
> ugly) for a comparison. xTalks handle this nicely ('=' for a 
> comparison), so don't clutter the language up with 'is' what 
> should be 'becomes'.

Actually, Sjoerd, it is probably possible for the parser to understand
the context so that a different operator may not be needed at all.

For example, 

on mouseUp
  x=3               <== assignment
  if x=3 then beep  <== equality
end mouseUp

So it might read words before or after it to determine if it is an
assignment or equality.

Of course someone with knowledge of the parser would have to answer this
one...

Ken Ray
Sons of Thunder Software
Email: kray at sonsothunder.com
Web Site: http://www.sonsothunder.com/ 



From ambassador at fourthworld.com  Tue Feb 17 18:11:21 2004
From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin)
Date: Tue, 17 Feb 2004 15:11:21 -0800
Subject: OT Yahoo Privacy - lack of
In-Reply-To: <20040217222905.68218.qmail@web61110.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <BC57DF98.3D970%ambassador@fourthworld.com>

Erik Hansen wrote:
>> Yahoo is now using something called "Web Beacons"
>> to track Yahoo Group users around the net and see
>> what you're doing and where you are going - similar
>> to cookies. Take a look at their updated privacy
>> statement:
>> 
> http://privacy.yahoo.com/privacy/us/pixels/details.html
>> 
>> About half-way down the page, in the section "Outside
>> the Yahoo! Network", you'll see a little "click here"
>> link that will let you "opt-out" of their new method
>> of snooping. I strongly recommend that you do this.
>> 
>> Once you have clicked that link, you are opted out.
>> Notice the "Success" message the top the next page.
>> 
>> Be careful because on that page there is a "Cancel
>> Opt-out" button that, if clicked, will *undo* the
>> opt-out.

Thank you for posting that.

Another useful link is their feedback form, where you can share your views
on this practice:

<http://add.yahoo.com/fast/help/us/privacy/cgi_feedback?radio30=radio305>

I invited them to meet the challenge outlined in my own privacy policy.  I
doubt I'll hear from them. :)

-- 
 Richard Gaskin 
 Fourth World Media Corporation
 Developer of WebMerge: Publish any database on any Web site
 ___________________________________________________________
 Ambassador at FourthWorld.com       http://www.FourthWorld.com


From doug at webcrossing.com  Tue Feb 17 18:17:27 2004
From: doug at webcrossing.com (Doug Lerner)
Date: Wed, 18 Feb 2004 08:17:27 +0900
Subject: Style:  Select Grouped Controls
In-Reply-To: <92FA78C4-618A-11D8-AEA6-000A9567A3E6@swcp.com>
Message-ID: <BC58D017.27215%doug@webcrossing.com>

On 2/18/04 5:48 AM, "Dar Scott" <dsc at swcp.com> wrote:

> That is, why use groups?

One reason I was thinking of using them was because the docs say that that
is the way to make scrolling windows.

In other words, there are no card or stack scrollbars, but there are group
scrollbars.

I don't want to lose the ability to individually manipulate each control
though. In fact, except for scrolling, I don't care that they are a group.

One thing about the scrollbar explanation that confused me though was it
said to "make the group the same size as the window". But if you do that,
where is there to scroll?

doug


From hershbp at realtorsgroup.us  Tue Feb 17 18:41:26 2004
From: hershbp at realtorsgroup.us (hershrev)
Date: Tue, 17 Feb 2004 18:41:26 -0500
Subject: control scructure repeat and next line
In-Reply-To: <47E79050-6181-11D8-9CA6-000A27B49A96@major-k.de>
Message-ID: <CD8B9595-61A2-11D8-9F90-0030654C1E62@realtorsgroup.us>


This is the recipe I'm using. the field is "list behavior" and lock  
text is unchecked.
the problem is that it stays on the same line it doesn't move on to the  
next line and so on.
global myDbid,myLine,thisLine,mySql
on mouseUp
   put  
revOpenDatabase("PostgreSQL","127.0.0.1","test",postgres,myPassword)into 
  myDbid
   repeat for each line myL in field "field 1"
     put  the selectedText of field "field 1"  into mySql
     put revdb_execute(myDbid,mySql) after field "field 2"-- to see what  
is going on
     put the selectedLine of field "field 1" into field "field 3"-- to  
see what is going on
     wait for 1 second
     if the mouse is down then exit repeat
     end repeat
end mouseUp
Thanks again, hershrev
On Tuesday, February 17, 2004, at 02:41 PM, Klaus Major wrote:

> Hi Dar,
>
>> On Tuesday, February 17, 2004, at 12:32 PM, hershrev wrote:
>>
>>>> The Revolution style is to put item and line delimiters between  
>>>> datums,
>>>> but it will also accommodate putting them after datums.  This is  
>>>> important
>>>> in representing empty datums.  If datums are never empty, then  
>>>> putting
>>>> delimiters between is fine.  I mention this, in case you are  
>>>> surprised about
>>>> how many lines are processed in such a loop.
>>> Sorry to say , but I don't know what datums are.
>>
>> Sorry.
>>
>> I mean pieces of information.  I tried to use this for a more general  
>> term for
>> lines and items.  Lines use a "line end" or "new line" character as a  
>> delimiter
>> (often called 'return' in Revolution).  Item typically use a comma as  
>> a delimiter.
>>
>> Since you are working with lines, I should have stuck with "lines".   
>> There is no
>> Revolution jargon called datum, as far as I know; this is all my  
>> fault.
>
> I was also a bit puzzled, since "datum" is the german word for "date"  
> :-)
>
>> Dar Scott
>
> Regards
>
> Klaus Major
> klaus at major-k.de
> www.major-k.de
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>


From graham.samuel at wanadoo.fr  Tue Feb 17 18:48:50 2004
From: graham.samuel at wanadoo.fr (Graham Samuel)
Date: Wed, 18 Feb 2004 00:48:50 +0100
Subject: Interrupting a loop
Message-ID: <6.0.1.1.2.20040218003542.01cd1768@pop3.blueyonder.co.uk>

Folks, maybe this is obvious and I'm too tired to see it, but what would be 
a good approach to the following problem?

In the app I'm developing have a kind of animated simulation which consists 
of 'repeat forever' loop that causes a series of actions (animations, 
sounds etc) to take place on the screen. The details don't matter, but the 
loop calls a lot of handlers in succession - some of which are quite 
complex - until it detects a particular condition and then it stops. A 
'run' like this can go on for several minutes.

What I want is to provide the user with a 'pause' button, which stops the 
looping action at the end of the last handler to be run (so the handlers 
called from within the repeat loop are kind of atomic in this context), and 
also provide a 'resume' button that gets things started where they left 
off. During the pause, the user is allowed to click various things on the 
screen etc and cause other handlers to run - so it's not just a case of 
freezing everything.

I can't immediately see an obvious way to do this, apart from getting the 
mouseUp event in the 'pause' button to set a flag and then test the flag at 
each step of the repeat loop (i.e. between each handler call). Given that 
the RR engine provides a very sophisticated message handling structure, 
this seems very primitive; and even if I do have this approach, I'm not 
sure how to handle the temporary exit from the repeat loop so as to be able 
to come back to it when 'resume' is triggered.

I'd be grateful for any ideas.

TIA

Graham

---------------------------------------------------
Graham Samuel / The Living Fossil Co. / UK & France  



From sarahr at genesearch.com.au  Tue Feb 17 19:02:52 2004
From: sarahr at genesearch.com.au (Sarah Reichelt)
Date: Wed, 18 Feb 2004 10:02:52 +1000
Subject: control scructure repeat and next line
In-Reply-To: <CD8B9595-61A2-11D8-9F90-0030654C1E62@realtorsgroup.us>
References: <CD8B9595-61A2-11D8-9F90-0030654C1E62@realtorsgroup.us>
Message-ID: <CBBA5AF8-61A5-11D8-A662-0003937A97B8@genesearch.com.au>

> This is the recipe I'm using. the field is "list behavior" and lock  
> text is unchecked.
> the problem is that it stays on the same line it doesn't move on to  
> the next line and so on.
> global myDbid,myLine,thisLine,mySql
> on mouseUp
>   put  
> revOpenDatabase("PostgreSQL","127.0.0.1","test",postgres,myPassword)int 
> o myDbid
>   repeat for each line myL in field "field 1"
>     put  the selectedText of field "field 1"  into mySql
>     put revdb_execute(myDbid,mySql) after field "field 2"-- to see  
> what is going on
>     put the selectedLine of field "field 1" into field "field 3"-- to  
> see what is going on
>     wait for 1 second
>     if the mouse is down then exit repeat
>     end repeat
> end mouseUp

Each time through the loop, myL contains the text of each line of the  
field. In the script above, you do not use this variable anywhere in  
the loop. There is no code to change the selectedText so in effect, you  
are using the number of lines as a counter, not to get any data.

Try this (assuming each line contains the SQL command you want to  
execute):

global myDbid,myLine,thisLine,mySql
on mouseUp
   put  
revOpenDatabase("PostgreSQL","127.0.0.1","test",postgres,myPassword)into 
  myDbid
   repeat for each line myL in field "field 1"
     put revdb_execute(myDbid, myL) after field "field 2"-- to see what  
is going on
     put myL into field "field 3"-- to see what is going on
     wait for 1 second
     if the mouse is down then exit repeat
     end repeat
end mouseUp

If you want to see the selection move down the list as you go, then you  
will have to change it in your scripts, using "set the hilitedLine".

Cheers,
Sarah


From briany at qldlearning.com  Tue Feb 17 19:02:26 2004
From: briany at qldlearning.com (Brian Yennie)
Date: Tue, 17 Feb 2004 19:02:26 -0500
Subject: Interrupting a loop
In-Reply-To: <6.0.1.1.2.20040218003542.01cd1768@pop3.blueyonder.co.uk>
Message-ID: <BC8A0136-61A5-11D8-AA0A-000393AA08D2@qldlearning.com>

A couple of different approaches:

1. Keep a "state" variable between handlers, something like:

repeat forever
    put 1 into gameState
    doSomething
    put 2 into gameState
    doSomethingElse
    put 3 into gameState
    doSomethingMore
end repeat

Then you could use the state variable to resume action at the correct 
spot in your code, by expanding to something like:

if (not wasPaused) then put 0 into gameState
put TRUE into firstTime
repeat forever
    if (gameState >= 1) OR (not firstTime) then
      put 1 into gameState
      doSomething
    end if
    if (gameState >= 2)  OR (not firstTime) then
      put 2 into gameState
      doSomethingElse
    end if
    if (gameState >= 3)  OR (not firstTime) then
      put 3 into gameState
      doSomethingMore
    end if
    put FALSE into firstTime
end repeat


2. Check out "wait with messages", and see if this gets you enough 
interaction when paused:

repeat forever
    if (isPaused) then
        wait 100 milliseconds with messages
    else
        ...
    end if
end repeat

HTH,
Brian

> Folks, maybe this is obvious and I'm too tired to see it, but what 
> would be a good approach to the following problem?


From 3mcgrath at adelphia.net  Tue Feb 17 19:10:33 2004
From: 3mcgrath at adelphia.net (Thomas McGrath III)
Date: Tue, 17 Feb 2004 19:10:33 -0500
Subject: Fields blew North
In-Reply-To: <BC57AB99.50AA%pixelbird@interisland.net>
References: <BC57AB99.50AA%pixelbird@interisland.net>
Message-ID: <DE555C92-61A6-11D8-AC9A-000A95DA60FA@adelphia.net>

Geez, Ken,

The only thing that I have seen that does that so far is the geometry 
pane.

Weird.

Tom

On Feb 17, 2004, at 2:29 PM, Ken Norris wrote:

> Hi Thomas,
>
>> Message: 7
>> Date: Tue, 17 Feb 2004 07:38:34 -0500
>> From: Thomas McGrath III <3mcgrath at adelphia.net>
>> Subject: Re: Fields blew North
>>
>> Ken,
>>
>> Did you sneeze?
> -----------
> Heh, heh...
> Actually, that's probably a valid Q where I am this time of year (lots 
> of
> flu bug going around). I can see someone sneezing and accidentally 
> clicking
> ;-)
>
> ...but no. I still have no clue why it happened, and I don't want to be
> chasing flyaway objects. There were no scripts in any fields, nor any 
> that
> referred to them, i.e., it's just a layout shell.
>
> The only currently working scripts are these:
>
> 1) In a dropdown menu button of the control palette:
>
> on mouseUp
>   get selectedText(me)
>   open stack it
>   go stack it
> end mouseUp
>
> 2) In the Stack script of the control palette:
>
> on moveStack
>   global gDockCon
>   get the loc of stack "Helping Hands Con"
>   add (width of stack "Helping Hands Con"/2) to item 1 of it
>     put the rect of stack topStack() into topSRect
>     subtract 323 from item 3 of topSRect
>     if it is within topSRect then
>     get the topleft of stack topStack()
>     subtract 176 from item 1 of it
>     add 16 to item 2 of it
>     set the topleft of stack "Helping Hands Con" to it
>     put "docked" into gDockCon
>     set the hidePalettes to true
>   else
>     put empty into gDockCon
>     set the hidePalettes to false
>   end if
>   --pass moveStack
> end moveStack
>
> 3) In the Stack Script of each of the other two windows:
>
> on moveStack
>   global gDockCon
>   if gDockCon is empty then
>     exit moveStack
>   else
>     get topleft of this stack
>     subtract 176 from item 1 of it
>     add 16 to item 2 of it
>     set topleft of stack "Helping Hands Con" to it
>   end if
>   pass moveStack
> end moveStack
>
> ...That's all there is at the moment.
>
> Thanks for looking,
> Ken N.
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>
>

Thomas J. McGrath III
SCS
1000 Killarney Dr.
Pittsburgh, PA 15234
412-885-8541


From 3mcgrath at adelphia.net  Tue Feb 17 19:12:15 2004
From: 3mcgrath at adelphia.net (Thomas McGrath III)
Date: Tue, 17 Feb 2004 19:12:15 -0500
Subject: control scructure repeat and next line
In-Reply-To: <47E79050-6181-11D8-9CA6-000A27B49A96@major-k.de>
References: <C3C2FA78-6180-11D8-AEA6-000A9567A3E6@swcp.com>
	<47E79050-6181-11D8-9CA6-000A27B49A96@major-k.de>
Message-ID: <1B99A1E2-61A7-11D8-AC9A-000A95DA60FA@adelphia.net>

I am sorry to say I 'knew' what you were referring to.

But your explanation is very clear and I am glad I read this.

Tom

On Feb 17, 2004, at 2:41 PM, Klaus Major wrote:

> Hi Dar,
>
>> On Tuesday, February 17, 2004, at 12:32 PM, hershrev wrote:
>>
>>>> The Revolution style is to put item and line delimiters between 
>>>> datums,
>>>> but it will also accommodate putting them after datums.  This is 
>>>> important
>>>> in representing empty datums.  If datums are never empty, then 
>>>> putting
>>>> delimiters between is fine.  I mention this, in case you are 
>>>> surprised about
>>>> how many lines are processed in such a loop.
>>> Sorry to say , but I don't know what datums are.
>>
>> Sorry.
>>
>> I mean pieces of information.  I tried to use this for a more general 
>> term for
>> lines and items.  Lines use a "line end" or "new line" character as a 
>> delimiter
>> (often called 'return' in Revolution).  Item typically use a comma as 
>> a delimiter.
>>
>> Since you are working with lines, I should have stuck with "lines".  
>> There is no
>> Revolution jargon called datum, as far as I know; this is all my 
>> fault.
>
> I was also a bit puzzled, since "datum" is the german word for "date" 
> :-)
>
>> Dar Scott
>
> Regards
>
> Klaus Major
> klaus at major-k.de
> www.major-k.de
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>
>

Thomas J. McGrath III
SCS
1000 Killarney Dr.
Pittsburgh, PA 15234
412-885-8541


From 3mcgrath at adelphia.net  Tue Feb 17 19:24:59 2004
From: 3mcgrath at adelphia.net (Thomas McGrath III)
Date: Tue, 17 Feb 2004 19:24:59 -0500
Subject: Style:  Select Grouped Controls
In-Reply-To: <92FA78C4-618A-11D8-AEA6-000A9567A3E6@swcp.com>
References: <92FA78C4-618A-11D8-AEA6-000A9567A3E6@swcp.com>
Message-ID: <E2DD254D-61A8-11D8-AC9A-000A95DA60FA@adelphia.net>

Dar,

I think of groups now as 'sharable' groups of controls. Now in creating 
groups, I never have "Select Grouped Controls" on. I like to 'go' to a 
group and only see the group and arrange things and build the group. 
However, in placing the group next to or near other objects you can't 
do this i.e. you need to see non group controls and group controls to 
align them closely, visually. In that case I turn SGC on and arrange as 
appropriate.

Secondly, once alignment and such is done and I am getting deeper into 
the inner workings of my project I DON'T want to move any elements in 
the group but DO want to select maybe one of them and change the script 
of it or a property of it and so SGC on makes sense to me because it 
saves a couple of steps in switching modes when all I want to do is 
lock the text in that field or add a tooltip etc. This could be done 
via the application browser BUT my project is usually over top of the 
AB and so I'd rather just grab the object directly and make the change 
I need.

When I have a lot of controls and some are hidden or overlapping etc. 
Then I grab the AB and bring it to front and select the control in the 
AB directly so I know there is no mistake. But I usually go back to my 
project to double check it was the right one.

"Measure twice, Cut once"

Lastly, Once a group has been 'painstakingly' aligned and arranged I 
usually lock the loc of each item in the group so I don't accidentally 
move them during the rest of the creation process. I am also starting 
to learn the keyboard shortcuts for pulling up the script or Property 
Inspector. But due to a couple of bugs I don't yet trust the keyboard 
equivalents.

FWIW

Tom

On Feb 17, 2004, at 3:48 PM, Dar Scott wrote:

>
> On Monday, February 16, 2004, at 12:30 PM, Dar Scott wrote:
>
>> I am more than just curious; this might affect how I deliver custom 
>> controls.  It is certainly not my intent to start any religious wars. 
>>  We seem to have different ways of getting things done; I'd like to 
>> learn from that of others.
>>
>> I wonder how folks use "Select Grouped Controls".
>
> I think we are seeing a wide range of usage.
>
> For me, I usually think of a group as an atomic single special control 
> or sometimes as a background (whether set so or not).  Usually, it is 
> the first.  I think that is why I leave select grouped controls off.  
> To me, the group has become a single control.  Once I make a group I 
> don't want to think about the innards.  This is part of my approach to 
> keeping things simple.
>
> I'd like to understand the motivation for leaving it on.  Are groups 
> for you essentially for sharing controls among cards in multiple 
> placement?  Are groups a way to insert scripts into the message path.  
> That is, why use groups?
>
> Dar Scott
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>
>

Thomas J. McGrath III
SCS
1000 Killarney Dr.
Pittsburgh, PA 15234
412-885-8541


From hershbp at realtorsgroup.us  Tue Feb 17 19:36:48 2004
From: hershbp at realtorsgroup.us (hershrev)
Date: Tue, 17 Feb 2004 19:36:48 -0500
Subject: control scructure repeat and next line
In-Reply-To: <CBBA5AF8-61A5-11D8-A662-0003937A97B8@genesearch.com.au>
Message-ID: <89990704-61AA-11D8-9F90-0030654C1E62@realtorsgroup.us>


On Tuesday, February 17, 2004, at 07:02 PM, Sarah Reichelt wrote:

>> This is the recipe I'm using. the field is "list behavior" and lock  
>> text is unchecked.
>> the problem is that it stays on the same line it doesn't move on to  
>> the next line and so on.
>> global myDbid,myLine,thisLine,mySql
>> on mouseUp
>>   put  
>> revOpenDatabase("PostgreSQL","127.0.0.1","test",postgres,myPassword)in 
>> to myDbid
>>   repeat for each line myL in field "field 1"
>>     put  the selectedText of field "field 1"  into mySql
>>     put revdb_execute(myDbid,mySql) after field "field 2"-- to see  
>> what is going on
>>     put the selectedLine of field "field 1" into field "field 3"-- to  
>> see what is going on
>>     wait for 1 second
>>     if the mouse is down then exit repeat
>>     end repeat
>> end mouseUp
>
> Each time through the loop, myL contains the text of each line of the  
> field. In the script above, you do not use this variable anywhere in  
> the loop. There is no code to change the selectedText so in effect,  
> you are using the number of lines as a counter, not to get any data.
Didn't get this last sentence "There is no code to change the  
selectedText so in effect, you are using the number of lines as a  
counter, not to get any data".
Other then that , it works great . You made in 5 minutes what I didn't  
do in 2 days. ( I said your a genius ) Thanks again.
By the way the "  put  
revOpenDatabase("PostgreSQL","127.0.0.1","test",postgres,myPassword)into 
  myDbid" I put before the repeat because it over loaded the db  
connections.

>
> Try this (assuming each line contains the SQL command you want to  
> execute):
>
> global myDbid,myLine,thisLine,mySql
> on mouseUp
>   put  
> revOpenDatabase("PostgreSQL","127.0.0.1","test",postgres,myPassword)int 
> o myDbid
>   repeat for each line myL in field "field 1"
>     put revdb_execute(myDbid, myL) after field "field 2"-- to see what  
> is going on
>     put myL into field "field 3"-- to see what is going on
>     wait for 1 second
>     if the mouse is down then exit repeat
>     end repeat
> end mouseUp
>
> If you want to see the selection move down the list as you go, then  
> you will have to change it in your scripts, using "set the  
> hilitedLine".
>
> Cheers,
> Sarah
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>


From scott at tactilemedia.com  Tue Feb 17 19:59:10 2004
From: scott at tactilemedia.com (Scott Rossi)
Date: Tue, 17 Feb 2004 16:59:10 -0800
Subject: Interrupting a loop
In-Reply-To: <6.0.1.1.2.20040218003542.01cd1768@pop3.blueyonder.co.uk>
Message-ID: <BC57F8DE.A279%scott@tactilemedia.com>

> Folks, maybe this is obvious and I'm too tired to see it, but what would be
> a good approach to the following problem?
> 
> In the app I'm developing have a kind of animated simulation which consists
> of 'repeat forever' loop that causes a series of actions (animations,
> sounds etc) to take place on the screen. The details don't matter, but the
> loop calls a lot of handlers in succession - some of which are quite
> complex - until it detects a particular condition and then it stops. A
> 'run' like this can go on for several minutes.

Actually, the details may matter because these could affect how you
interrupt the animation.


> What I want is to provide the user with a 'pause' button, which stops the
> looping action at the end of the last handler to be run (so the handlers
> called from within the repeat loop are kind of atomic in this context), and
> also provide a 'resume' button that gets things started where they left
> off. During the pause, the user is allowed to click various things on the
> screen etc and cause other handlers to run - so it's not just a case of
> freezing everything.
> 
> I can't immediately see an obvious way to do this, apart from getting the
> mouseUp event in the 'pause' button to set a flag and then test the flag at
> each step of the repeat loop (i.e. between each handler call). Given that
> the RR engine provides a very sophisticated message handling structure,
> this seems very primitive; and even if I do have this approach, I'm not
> sure how to handle the temporary exit from the repeat loop so as to be able
> to come back to it when 'resume' is triggered.


Test a global variable state (ie gPaused) or user property to establish the
pause within either of the following setups:

1) If you're using the built-in move command, make sure you use "without
waiting" so that other scripts/mouse events can be processed simultaneously.
To interrupt this type of animation, you need to use the movingControls
function to determine which objects to stop.

2) If you're using your own move construct, such as repeatedly setting the
location of an object during a repeat loop, consider adding a "wait XX with
messages" at the end of the loop (whatever time delay is appropriate) to
allow for other scripts/mouse events to be processed.

Note that unless you're moving a huge image (640x480, 24 bits), neither of
the above scripts should require multiple variable tests throughout the
script.  The Rev engine is pretty fast here.

Regards,

Scott Rossi
Creative Director
Tactile Media, Multimedia & Design
-----
E: scott at tactilemedia.com
W: http://www.tactilemedia.com


From 3mcgrath at adelphia.net  Tue Feb 17 20:08:16 2004
From: 3mcgrath at adelphia.net (Thomas McGrath III)
Date: Tue, 17 Feb 2004 20:08:16 -0500
Subject: Concept help
Message-ID: <EEF8277C-61AE-11D8-AC9A-000A95DA60FA@adelphia.net>

Hello to you all,

I have a new project in my scopes and need a little conceptual help.
Note: This concept is protected under a number of patents. I wrote a 
lot of these patents while working for this company, but do not 
personally own them. In fact, I want to write this and license the 
patents from the company that owns them. Then I want to do some neat 
things with it and hopefully sell the final application to them for my 
own personal gain. :-) I hope.....

I have a graphic keyboard to create and need a way to do semi-complex 
checking.
What I mean is there will be a lot of button checking going on.
I created a variation of this in SuperCard once before but SC did not 
have any disabled states for buttons etc. and I had to drink lots of 
coffee to pull it off. With Rev there are a lot of new tools for me to 
use and I would like some help in choosing the right approach to this.

Let's say there are 72 buttons. 8 x 9 grid of buttons
After button 5 is selected only certain buttons of the 72 will be 
available for selection. (patented)
Let's say that buttons 10, 15, 20, 25, 30, 35, 40, 45, 50, 55, 60, 65 
and 69 are available after 5 is hit.
All 72 are always visible but some are disabled based upon database 
entries. (patented)

Now entries in the Database are always associated with three buttons:
5:15:27:"my text here"
5:15:32:"more text here"
5:20:34:"other text here"
3:45:22:"even more here"
etc. etc.

SO what I want to do is to check the DB when item 1's button is 
selected and check item 2 and set the available of all item 2s that 
have the same item 1.
In the small example above if 5 were hit then only buttons 15 and 20 
would be available and all the rest are disabled.
SO then when an item 2 button is selected then all item 3's that have 
the same item 2 will be available and all others are disabled.

Once the third button is selected the text in item 4 will be processed 
and or displayed in a field. (patented)
The system will reset back to the default state and allow for a new 
item 1 button to be selected.

HELP:
I don't have that much experience with array's as such and need some 
good advice.
Would this be best as a series of custom properties?
or as variable arrays?
or would it be better to use some of rev's database tools? - I haven't 
used them before. newbie here.
Now some of you seem to be experts with these things and I would like 
to tap into your brains for a little direction.

The button behavior seems very easy in REV.
The system seems easy.
The interface seems easy.
Only the storage and retrieval of multiple items seems complicated 
especially since there seems to be a couple of different ways to go 
about it and I don't know the ins and outs of each to make a proper 
educated decision on the issue.

Thank you all very much for the help.

Tom


Macintosh PowerBook G-4 OSX 10.3.1, OS 9.2.2, 1.25 GHz, 512MB RAM, Rev 
2.1.2


Advanced Media Group
Thomas J McGrath III	? 2003 ?	3mcgrath at adelphia.net
220 Drake Road, Bethel Park, PA 15102



From dsc at swcp.com  Tue Feb 17 20:21:54 2004
From: dsc at swcp.com (Dar Scott)
Date: Tue, 17 Feb 2004 18:21:54 -0700
Subject: Interrupting a loop
In-Reply-To: <6.0.1.1.2.20040218003542.01cd1768@pop3.blueyonder.co.uk>
Message-ID: <D6363B63-61B0-11D8-AEA6-000A9567A3E6@swcp.com>


On Tuesday, February 17, 2004, at 04:48 PM, Graham Samuel wrote:

> I'm not sure how to handle the temporary exit from the repeat loop so 
> as to be able to come back to it when 'resume' is triggered.

My primer stack on message mechanics (at my web site) includes an 
example of a "background" task.  It uses a purposefully tedious method 
for inverting an image and displaying progress.  The example shows both 
the "normal" method and the "background" method.  I think the approach 
for background will apply.  It does require breaking the task into 
steps (or states).

The example does not have the pause and restart builtin as is, but the 
structure is there to allow it.  The example illustrates other things 
such as switching cards going on at the same time, so a pause button 
click will be seen.

The wait with/for messages might be in an alternate method.

Take care that you don't crowd out events with too heavy of pending 
messages.

In some cases the hardest part is converting a task to a series of 
tasks.  This is hard if the work is not homogeneous and inner loops are 
of all kinds and of all sizes and depths.

Dar Scott

****************************************
     Dar Scott Consulting
     http://www.swcp.com/dsc/
     Programming Services
****************************************


From sarahr at genesearch.com.au  Tue Feb 17 20:34:26 2004
From: sarahr at genesearch.com.au (Sarah Reichelt)
Date: Wed, 18 Feb 2004 11:34:26 +1000
Subject: Style:  Select Grouped Controls
In-Reply-To: <92FA78C4-618A-11D8-AEA6-000A9567A3E6@swcp.com>
References: <92FA78C4-618A-11D8-AEA6-000A9567A3E6@swcp.com>
Message-ID: <96CC6782-61B2-11D8-A662-0003937A97B8@genesearch.com.au>

On 18 Feb 2004, at 6:50 am, Dar Scott wrote:

> I'd like to understand the motivation for leaving it on.  Are groups  
> for you essentially for sharing controls among cards in multiple  
> placement?  Are groups a way to insert scripts into the message path.   
> That is, why use groups?
>
Here are the usual reasons for me to use groups:
- you have to group radio buttons to get the correct behavior  
automatically.
- groups can be placed on multiple cards to save duplicate scripting  
and object creation.
- groups can be a visual thing, where you show the name & border to  
define a functional block in your interface.
- showing & hiding multiple objects is easy if they are grouped
- scrolling objects larger than the window

BTW, for any ex-HyperCarders who are having trouble understanding  
groups vs backgrounds, I wrote an article on this subject ages ago for  
Rev's "tip-of-the-year" web site:  
http://www.runrev.com/revolution/developers/articles/tipoftheweek/ 
5.html

Cheers,
Sarah


From dsc at swcp.com  Tue Feb 17 20:43:08 2004
From: dsc at swcp.com (Dar Scott)
Date: Tue, 17 Feb 2004 18:43:08 -0700
Subject: Concept help
In-Reply-To: <EEF8277C-61AE-11D8-AC9A-000A95DA60FA@adelphia.net>
Message-ID: <CD8A3BB4-61B3-11D8-AEA6-000A9567A3E6@swcp.com>


On Tuesday, February 17, 2004, at 06:08 PM, Thomas McGrath III wrote:

> Only the storage and retrieval of multiple items seems complicated 
> especially since there seems to be a couple of different ways to go 
> about it and I don't know the ins and outs of each to make a proper 
> educated decision on the issue.

One possible direction is to exploit the natural hierarchy of chunks.  
However, that doesn't go as deep as you want unless you swap item 
delimiters.

Or...  You can use the button # list as key (index) for an array.  The 
array can have your leaf string.  You can look up button patterns in 
other arrays or in the same array with a partial list ask the key 
(index).

Dar Scott


From doug at webcrossing.com  Tue Feb 17 20:49:38 2004
From: doug at webcrossing.com (Doug Lerner)
Date: Wed, 18 Feb 2004 10:49:38 +0900
Subject: xml or other complete text representation of a control?
In-Reply-To: <8398A17B-5EC7-11D8-BBCB-000393AA08D2@qldlearning.com>
Message-ID: <BC58F3C2.27260%doug@webcrossing.com>

On 2/14/04 5:26 PM, "Brian Yennie" <briany at qldlearning.com> wrote:

> Doug,
> 
> "the properties" returns an associative array, perhaps you were
> treating it as a string?

I was trying 

    put the properties of graphic "Tao2"

that returns nothing.

    put the keys of the properties of graphic "Tao2"

is a syntax error it seems.

I'll take a look at your script.

Thanks,

doug


> 
> Check out the following- with the recent CVS thread going on here, I
> banged out this script to convince myself that textual representations
> of stacks weren't too bad. There's a bunch of stuff in here, including
> customProperties and escaping property values so they'll all fit on one
> line, etc, etc.
> 
> But mostly, per your question you basically have a couple of options
> for dealing the "the properties" array- use combine (but watch out for
> property values that might contain your delimiter string inside of
> them, esp. with custom properties), or loop through the individual
> elements of the array using either: "repeat for each element e in
> propArray" or "repeat for each line tKey in keys(propArray)".
> 
> HTH,
> Brian
> 
> ####################
> 
> ## DEFINE SOME CONSTANTS
> constant kNONE = 0
> constant kSTACK = 1
> constant kCARD = 2
> constant kPART = 3
> constant kTYPENAMES = "stack,card,part"
> 
> on mouseUp
>  ## CHOOSE A FOLDER TO EXPORT THIS STACK TO
>  answer folder "Please select a folder to export to."
>  if (the result is "Cancel") then exit mouseUp
>  exportStack it, the short name of this stack
> end mouseUp
> 
> on exportStack theDir,whichStack
>  put the directory into saveDir
>  put the defaultStack into saveDefault
> 
>  set the directory to theDir
>  set the defaultStack to whichStack
> 
>  ## EXPORT THE STACK OBJECT
>  textExport kSTACK, the short name of this stack,kNONE,0
> 
>  ## LOOP THROUGH EACH CARD AND EXPORT EACH OF ITS PARTS
>  ## NOTE:: GROUPS SHOW UP AS THEIR OWN 'PART' ON EACH CARD THEY BELONG
> TO
>  repeat with i=1 to (number of cds in this stack)
>    exportCard theDir,whichStack,the id of cd i of this stack
>  end repeat
> 
>  ## RESTORE THE CURRENT DIRECTORY
>  set the directory to saveDir
>  set the defaultStack to saveDefault
> end exportStack
> 
> on exportCard theDir,whichStack,cardID
>  put the directory into saveDir
>  put the defaultStack into saveDefault
> 
>  set the directory to theDir
>  set the defaultStack to whichStack
> 
>  textExport kCARD, cardID,kSTACK,the short name of this stack
>  repeat with j=1 to number of cd parts of cd id cardID of this stack
>    exportPart theDir,whichStack,cardID,the id of part j of cd id
> cardID of this stack
>  end repeat
> 
>  set the directory to saveDir
>  set the defaultStack to saveDefault
> end exportCard
> 
> on exportPart theDir,whichStack,cardID,partID
>  put the directory into saveDir
>  put the defaultStack into saveDefault
> 
>  set the directory to theDir
>  set the defaultStack to whichStack
> 
>  textExport kPART,partID,kCARD,cardID
> 
>  set the directory to saveDir
>  set the defaultStack to saveDefault
> end exportPart
> 
> 
> on textExport objectType, objectID, parentType, parentID
>  ## FIGURE OUT THE RELATIVE LOCATION OF THE FILES
>  switch (objectType)
>  case kSTACK
>    put (the directory)&"/stack_"&objectID&"/" into parentDir
>    break
>  case kCARD
>    put (the directory)&"/"&(item parentType of
> kTYPENAMES)&"_"&(parentID)&"/card_"&objectID&"/" into parentDir
>    break
>  case kPART
>    put (the directory)&"/"&("stack_"&(the short name of this
> stack))&"/"&(item parentType of
> kTYPENAMES)&"_"&(parentID)&"/part_"&objectID&"/" into parentDir
>    break
>  end switch
> 
>  ## CREATE A FOLDER FOR THIS OBJECT
>  create folder parentDir
> 
>  if (objectType = kSTACK) then
>    put "stack"&&quote&objectID&quote into objectDesc
>  else
>    put ((item objectType of kTYPENAMES)&" id "&objectID) into
> objectDesc
>    put the long id of objectDesc into objectDesc
>  end if
> 
>  put (parentDir)&(item objectType of kTYPENAMES)&"["&(objectID)&"]"
> into fName
> 
>  ## EXPORT THE SCRIPT
>  put the script of objectDesc into tScript
>  put tScript into url ("file:"&fName&".sct")
> 
>  ## EXPORT THE ORDINARY PROPERTIES
>  put the properties of objectDesc into tProps
>  put extractProps(tProps) into url ("file:"&fName&".prp")
>  if (word 1 of the long id of objectDesc is "image") AND (the fileName
> of objectDesc is empty) then
>    put compress(the imageData of objectDesc) into url
> ("file:"&fName&".image")
>    put compress(the alphaData of objectDesc) into url
> ("file:"&fName&".alpha")
>    put compress(the maskData of objectDesc) into url
> ("file:"&fName&".mask")
>  end if
> 
>  ## EXPORT THE CUSTOM PROPERTIES
>  put empty into tCustomProps
>  put the customPropertySet of objectDesc into savePropertySet
>  repeat for each line tPropertySet in the customPropertySets of
> objectDesc
>    set the customPropertySet of objectDesc to tPropertySet
>    put the customProperties of objectDesc into tProps
>    put tPropertySet&colon&cr&extractProps(tProps)&cr after tCustomProps
>  end repeat
>  put tCustomProps into url ("file:"&fName&".cst")
>  set the customPropertySet of objectDesc to savePropertySet
> end textExport
> 
> function extractProps @tPropArray
>  local tPropData
>  repeat for each line tKey in keys(tPropArray)
>    put tPropArray[tKey] into tValue
>    replace "\" with "\\" in tValue
>    replace return with "\r" in tValue
>    put tKey&colon&tValue&cr after tPropData
>  end repeat
>  return tPropData
> end extractProps
> 
>> I don't get any result from "the properties" when I try this with
>> graphic or
>> field objects. Maybe that only works for custom properties?
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution


From sarahr at genesearch.com.au  Tue Feb 17 20:55:53 2004
From: sarahr at genesearch.com.au (Sarah Reichelt)
Date: Wed, 18 Feb 2004 11:55:53 +1000
Subject: control scructure repeat and next line
In-Reply-To: <89990704-61AA-11D8-9F90-0030654C1E62@realtorsgroup.us>
References: <89990704-61AA-11D8-9F90-0030654C1E62@realtorsgroup.us>
Message-ID: <95A95C7C-61B5-11D8-A662-0003937A97B8@genesearch.com.au>

>>> This is the recipe I'm using. the field is "list behavior" and lock  
>>> text is unchecked.
>>> the problem is that it stays on the same line it doesn't move on to  
>>> the next line and so on.
>>> global myDbid,myLine,thisLine,mySql
>>> on mouseUp
>>>   put  
>>> revOpenDatabase("PostgreSQL","127.0.0.1","test",postgres,myPassword)i 
>>> nto myDbid
>>>   repeat for each line myL in field "field 1"
>>>     put  the selectedText of field "field 1"  into mySql
>>>     put revdb_execute(myDbid,mySql) after field "field 2"-- to see  
>>> what is going on
>>>     put the selectedLine of field "field 1" into field "field 3"--  
>>> to see what is going on
>>>     wait for 1 second
>>>     if the mouse is down then exit repeat
>>>     end repeat
>>> end mouseUp
>>
>> Each time through the loop, myL contains the text of each line of the  
>> field. In the script above, you do not use this variable anywhere in  
>> the loop. There is no code to change the selectedText so in effect,  
>> you are using the number of lines as a counter, not to get any data.
> Didn't get this last sentence "There is no code to change the  
> selectedText so in effect, you are using the number of lines as a  
> counter, not to get any data".
OK, I'll try and make myself clearer :-)

There are 2 ways of changing the selectedText in a list field:
1.	click on a different line
2.	by scripting e.g. set the hilitedLine of fld "MyList" to 3
This is a visual indicator to your user of the currently selected line  
and as the programmer, you can use the "selectedText" property to find  
out what line your user has clicked on.

In your loop above, you are using the selectedText to decide which SQL  
command to execute, but this is inside a loop and there is nothing in  
the loop that is going to change which line is selected. The user can't  
use method 1, because the program is running a loop and they won't have  
control, and the script is not using method 2.
Therefore, you are repeating the loop, using the same data each time  
through the loop - whatever line was selected when the loop started.

"repeat for each" does not use the selectedText. It takes the data and  
each go through the loop, it fills the assigned loop variable with the  
contents of the next chunk, in your case, the next line of the field.  
You were using a "repeat for each" loop, but not actually referring to  
the data that the loop had got for you, the myL variable. The loop  
variable was never used but as the loop was going through every line,  
this dictated how many times the loop ran, so the number of lines in  
your field was acting as a counter and nothing else.

Hopefully this has clarified how the "repeat for each" works. One  
further piece of advice: it is always faster to operate on variables  
than fields. If you are only doing a few operations, you won't notice  
much difference, but it is a good habit to get into e.g.
	put fld "MyList" into myVar
	repeat for each line L in myVar
	  ...

> Other then that , it works great . You made in 5 minutes what I didn't  
> do in 2 days. ( I said your a genius ) Thanks again.
Thank you.
> By the way the "  put  
> revOpenDatabase("PostgreSQL","127.0.0.1","test",postgres,myPassword)int 
> o myDbid" I put before the repeat because it over loaded the db  
> connections.
Yes, you only need to do this once.

Cheers,
Sarah


From alex at mindlube.com  Tue Feb 17 20:57:05 2004
From: alex at mindlube.com (Alex Rice)
Date: Tue, 17 Feb 2004 18:57:05 -0700
Subject: Concept help
In-Reply-To: <EEF8277C-61AE-11D8-AC9A-000A95DA60FA@adelphia.net>
References: <EEF8277C-61AE-11D8-AC9A-000A95DA60FA@adelphia.net>
Message-ID: <C0D8413D-61B5-11D8-938F-000393C4760A@mindlube.com>


On Feb 17, 2004, at 6:08 PM, Thomas McGrath III wrote:
> Only the storage and retrieval of multiple items seems complicated 
> especially since there seems to be a couple of different ways to go 
> about it and I don't know the ins and outs of each to make a proper 
> educated decision on the issue.

I'm not really sure what the requirements are- because you are not 
being very specific with examples (and probably aren't allowed to) 
That's OK though. Here are some ideas:

First idea)

Kind of like what Dar just now suggested. Use custom properties to save 
the allowed button states as a "hashtable" or "dictionary".

-- if button 37 is clicked then:
put the uButtonDownState[ 37 ] of this stack into tState
-- tState could contain data like buttonNum=state,buttonNum=state, ...
-- 1=disabled,2=hidden,3=enabled,4=visible,..., etc.
repeat for each item tItem of tState
  split tItem by "="
  switch tItem[2]
	case "disabled"
		disable button item[1]
		break
	case "visible"
		show button item[1]
	...
  ...
end repeat

Second idea)

If there are many logical connections between many buttons then you are 
talking about a many-to-many pattern matching problem. You will know it 
when you have an explosion of if-then rules in trying to program the 
rules of the system. I don't know if this is the problem in your 
system. If it is, a rule based expert system like CLIPS is perfect 
because it has a pattern matching engine than efficiently handles 
many-to-many problems.

For example you could have a great number of rules like the following, 
and CLIPS could always efficiently find the correct state of the 
system.

(defrule button-dependency-n

	(button (num 1) (depressed TRUE))
	(button (num 2) (visible TRUE))
	(button (num 3) (visible FALSE))
	(button (num 4) (depressed FALSE))
	?button <- (button (num 5) (visible FALSE))

	=>

	(modify ?button (visible TRUE))
)

The above CLIPS rule states in English: "If button 1 is depressed, 
button 2 is visible, button 3 is hidden, button 4 is not depressed, and 
button 5 is hidden, then button 5 should be made visible".

Note that changing the state of button 5 could have many dependencies, 
and if so, other rules would fire consequently- CLIPS handles the 
"activation agenda" (You don't need to check for dependencies yourself 
that's what the CLIPS pattern matching engine does)

In the above example, the changing button 5 would result in a partial 
activation of the following rule button-dependency-n2.  If button 7 
were depressed, then there would be a full activation and the rule 
would fire:

(defrule button-dependency-n2

	(button (num 5) (visible TRUE))
	(button (num 7) (depressed TRUE))
	
	=>
	
	(printout t "bingo!")
)

Note that a CLIPS rule is merely an IF-THEN statement. The form is
(defrule rule-name
...IF...
=>
...THEN ...)

IF = LHS = left hand side of the rule
THEN = RHS = right hand side of the rule.

In procedural programming (Transcript, Basic, C, whatever) you would 
have to test each of the If-thens, 1 at a time, which can be extremely 
slow. Using CLIPS the procedural part the IF-THEN statement is 
eliminated so the CLIPS engine instantaneously fires the rules that 
match the current state of the system. Hope this helps give you some 
ideas.

See also <http://mindlube.com/developer/revclips/>


--
Alex Rice | Mindlube Software | http://mindlube.com


From kray at sonsothunder.com  Tue Feb 17 21:25:08 2004
From: kray at sonsothunder.com (Ken Ray)
Date: Tue, 17 Feb 2004 20:25:08 -0600
Subject: Interrupting a loop
In-Reply-To: <6.0.1.1.2.20040218003542.01cd1768@pop3.blueyonder.co.uk>
Message-ID: <008701c3f5c6$7db92040$6601a8c0@LightningFlash>

Graham,

Here's a way I've used in the past:

-- Script of btn "Start":
global gPaused,gExit
on mouseUp
  put false into gPaused
  put false into gExit
  repeat forever
    -- code that does what you want
    wait 0 secs with messages  -- allows processing of other scripts
    if gPaused then
      wait until gPaused is false with messages
    end if
    if gExit then exit repeat
  end repeat
  answer "Done!"
end mouseUp

-- Script of btn "Pause":
on mouseUp
  global gPaused
  put true into gPaused
end mouseUp	

-- Script of btn "Continue":
on mouseUp
  global gPaused
  put false into gPaused
end mouseUp	

-- Script of btn "Stop":
on mouseUp
  global gExit
  put true into gExit
end mouseUp	

HTH,

Ken Ray
Sons of Thunder Software
Email: kray at sonsothunder.com
Web Site: http://www.sonsothunder.com/ 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: use-revolution-bounces at lists.runrev.com 
> [mailto:use-revolution-bounces at lists.runrev.com] On Behalf Of 
> Graham Samuel
> Sent: Tuesday, February 17, 2004 5:49 PM
> To: use-revolution-request-lists.runrev.com
> Subject: Interrupting a loop
> 
> 
> Folks, maybe this is obvious and I'm too tired to see it, but 
> what would be 
> a good approach to the following problem?
> 
> In the app I'm developing have a kind of animated simulation 
> which consists 
> of 'repeat forever' loop that causes a series of actions (animations, 
> sounds etc) to take place on the screen. The details don't 
> matter, but the 
> loop calls a lot of handlers in succession - some of which are quite 
> complex - until it detects a particular condition and then it 
> stops. A 
> 'run' like this can go on for several minutes.
> 
> What I want is to provide the user with a 'pause' button, 
> which stops the 
> looping action at the end of the last handler to be run (so 
> the handlers 
> called from within the repeat loop are kind of atomic in this 
> context), and 
> also provide a 'resume' button that gets things started where 
> they left 
> off. During the pause, the user is allowed to click various 
> things on the 
> screen etc and cause other handlers to run - so it's not just 
> a case of 
> freezing everything.
> 
> I can't immediately see an obvious way to do this, apart from 
> getting the 
> mouseUp event in the 'pause' button to set a flag and then 
> test the flag at 
> each step of the repeat loop (i.e. between each handler 
> call). Given that 
> the RR engine provides a very sophisticated message handling 
> structure, 
> this seems very primitive; and even if I do have this 
> approach, I'm not 
> sure how to handle the temporary exit from the repeat loop so 
> as to be able 
> to come back to it when 'resume' is triggered.
> 
> I'd be grateful for any ideas.
> 
> TIA
> 
> Graham
> 
> ---------------------------------------------------
> Graham Samuel / The Living Fossil Co. / UK & France  
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com 
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-> revolution
> 



From michaell at unimelb.edu.au  Tue Feb 17 21:30:21 2004
From: michaell at unimelb.edu.au (Michael J. Lew)
Date: Wed, 18 Feb 2004 13:30:21 +1100
Subject: Interrupting a loop
Message-ID: <p05200f01bc587d2c191d@[128.250.229.137]>

This is something that I do quite often. Messages are generally a 
better idea than a repeat loop because they allow other handlers to 
be run at the same time so your user can do other stuff. Here is a 
skeletal script that should get you going. You will need a button to 
contain the first script and another called "Pause" with the second 
script. (I used a custom property to control the increment just to 
show where another control might alter the process.)

First button (give it a custom property called cIncrement and set it 
to a number):
on mouseUp
   put 0
   addSome
end mouseUp

on addsome
   add the cIncrement of me to msg
   if not the hilite of btn "pause" then send addSome to me in 10 milliseconds
end addsome

Pause button (I used a checkbox):
on mouseUp
   if not the hilite of me then send "addsome" to btn 1
end mouseUp

Hope that helps.

-- 
Michael J. Lew

Senior Lecturer
Department of Pharmacology
The University of Melbourne
Parkville 3010
Victoria
Australia

Phone +613 8344 8304

**
New email address: michaell at unimelb.edu.au
**

From dsc at swcp.com  Tue Feb 17 21:52:15 2004
From: dsc at swcp.com (Dar Scott)
Date: Tue, 17 Feb 2004 19:52:15 -0700
Subject: An example of a article and a product
Message-ID: <7578FF10-61BD-11D8-AEA6-000A9567A3E6@swcp.com>

A month ago, I mentioned an article by Dave Simpson that I saw online.  
I noticed another one.  (Honest.  I am not his PR guy.  I don't even 
know him apart from his rare comments on the list.  He is probably 
shocked and maybe embarrassed to see my comment.)

In an article at O'Reilly's macdevcenter, Dave Simpson mentions how 
using Revolution allowed him to combine forces of a variety of 
technologies and wrap that up in an application.  The multi-platform 
capability allowed him to reuse some of that in creating a another 
multi-plaform product.

    http://www.macdevcenter.com/pub/a/mac/2004/02/17/filemaker.html

I think this application is a good example of the breadth of Revolution 
and its suitability for building tools.

Articles like this also get the word out about Revolution.

Dar Scott
-- 
****************************************
     Dar Scott Consulting
     http://www.swcp.com/dsc/
     Programming Services
****************************************


From pixelbird at interisland.net  Tue Feb 17 22:30:19 2004
From: pixelbird at interisland.net (Ken Norris)
Date: Tue, 17 Feb 2004 19:30:19 -0800
Subject: Fields blew North
In-Reply-To: <20040218003712.A52DF9300E9@mail.runrev.com>
Message-ID: <BC581C4B.50CB%pixelbird@interisland.net>

Hi Thomas,

> Date: Tue, 17 Feb 2004 19:10:33 -0500
> From: Thomas McGrath III <3mcgrath at adelphia.net>
> Subject: Re: Fields blew North
>
> The only thing that I have seen that does that so far is the geometry
> pane.
> 
> Weird.
----------
Yeah, it IS wierd. That's what I've been saying. I never had the Geometry
Manager open AFAIK (I'm scared of that thing anyway).

Out of curiosity, would it throw similar fields of two different windows 83
points above each at the same time, without touching anything else?

I better have my mucklucks and dog team ready for rescue operations in case
it happens again, I guess ;-)

BTW, the little palette docking routines work OK, but I wish I could see it
in Windows. I hope it's better.

Ken N.


From alex at mindlube.com  Tue Feb 17 22:53:24 2004
From: alex at mindlube.com (Alex Rice)
Date: Tue, 17 Feb 2004 20:53:24 -0700
Subject: Trying to buy Dan's book
In-Reply-To: <Pine.GSO.4.33.0402140956010.15517-100000@titan.ecs.fullerton.edu>
References: <Pine.GSO.4.33.0402140956010.15517-100000@titan.ecs.fullerton.edu>
Message-ID: <00653AE6-61C6-11D8-A16C-000393C4760A@mindlube.com>


On Feb 14, 2004, at 10:57 AM, Judy Perry wrote:

> No joke! It was going to cost me nearly $50 to get it printed and 
> bound IF
> only they'd had the most recent copy of Reader...
>
> I'll let you  know if I find anything...

here is something
<http://www.cafepress.com/cp/info/sell/books.aspx>

--
Alex Rice | Mindlube Software | http://mindlube.com


From pixelbird at interisland.net  Wed Feb 18 02:31:54 2004
From: pixelbird at interisland.net (Ken Norris)
Date: Tue, 17 Feb 2004 23:31:54 -0800
Subject: Concept help
In-Reply-To: <20040218015638.C26AD9300F5@mail.runrev.com>
Message-ID: <BC5854EA.50D2%pixelbird@interisland.net>

on 2/17/04 5:56 PM, use-revolution-request at lists.runrev.com at
use-revolution-request at lists.runrev.com wrote:

> Date: Tue, 17 Feb 2004 20:08:16 -0500
> From: Thomas McGrath III <3mcgrath at adelphia.net>
> Subject: Concept help
----------snip 
> SO what I want to do is to check the DB when item 1's button is
> selected and check item 2 and set the available of all item 2s that
> have the same item 1.
----------
Check the cookbook 'Recipe for Finding common lines in two containers'. This
is line-delimited rather than item-delimited, but the principle is the same.

Also check Rev's site, Developer Central, for Mark Brownell's Array
Manipulation stack.

Serendipity Library.

Tuvia's DB examples.
----------snip
> Would this be best as a series of custom properties?
> or as variable arrays?
----------
How about both?

HTH,
Ken N.


From capellan2000 at yahoo.com  Wed Feb 18 04:30:05 2004
From: capellan2000 at yahoo.com (Alejandro Tejada)
Date: Wed, 18 Feb 2004 01:30:05 -0800 (PST)
Subject: How could i Post binary data to perl cgi?
In-Reply-To: <20040218015638.EF217930106@mail.runrev.com>
Message-ID: <20040218093005.36701.qmail@web40510.mail.yahoo.com>

Hi developers,

After reading the examples in
the libUrl documentation,
i have success posting a
form to a cgi script.

Now, i'm experimenting to
post binary data to a website.
I do not find an specific
example to make this.

Did I had to encode the
binary data with urlencode or
base64encode, before posting the
data to the cgi in the website?

How could i interpret this html form
for using from within liburl in RunRev?

<form
action="http://www.yourserver.com/cgi-bin/upload.cgi" 
method="post" 
enctype="multipart/form-data">
<input type="File" name="FILE1">
<p>
<input type="Submit" value="submit">
</form> 

I understand that ftp is available,
to upload files, but using perl cgi 
has many advantages, like email
notification, etc.

In fact, Chipp Walters create code
to post files to a specific type of
server, but i test it with the server
i'm using and did not works.

Thanks in advance.

al

=====
Visit my site:
http://www.geocities.com/capellan2000/
Search the mail list:
http://mindlube.com/cgi-bin/search-use-rev.cgi

__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Mail SpamGuard - Read only the mail you want.
http://antispam.yahoo.com/tools

From sanke at hrz.uni-kassel.de  Wed Feb 18 04:40:11 2004
From: sanke at hrz.uni-kassel.de (Wilhelm Sanke)
Date: Wed, 18 Feb 2004 10:40:11 +0100
Subject: OT Yahoo Privacy - lack of
Message-ID: <403332FB.5000208@hrz.uni-kassel.de>

On Tue, 17 Feb 2004  Erik Hansen <erikhans08 at yahoo.com> wrote:

>> FYI, This came to my attention, if its
>> redundant, my apologies.
>> 
>> Yahoo is now using something called "Web
>> Beacons" to track
>> Yahoo Group users around the net and see what
>> you're doing
>> and where you are going - similar to cookies.
>> Take a look at their
>> updated privacy statement:
>> 
>>
>  
>
http://privacy.yahoo.com/privacy/us/pixels/details.html

(snip)

A similar lack of Yahoo privacy is apparent when you try to sign up as a new member of a Yahoo group.

When joining the MC_IDE group (arranged by Richard Gaskin), Yahoo confronts you with a couple of required fields that should be absolutely of no concern to them.
So at first I canceled joining the group, but then thought about feeding them fancy data.
 This worked. Yahoo would not accept an age of 1000 years, but accepted 3 years.

For Yahoo I am now a three-year old CEO of an Aerospace Company.

Regards,

Wilhelm Sanke




From jimlyons at earthlink.net  Wed Feb 18 08:33:09 2004
From: jimlyons at earthlink.net (Jim Lyons)
Date: Wed, 18 Feb 2004 08:33:09 -0500
Subject: Style:  Select Grouped Controls
Message-ID: <FDBF1D5F-6216-11D8-992B-000A95893982@earthlink.net>

One use for groups I haven't seen mentioned:

When I have a set of buttons or graphics that have identical behavior, 
I make an invisible group of them and put the handlers into the group. 
This is better than using the card script, where I would have to check 
the target to see what to do; when the group gets a mouseUp, I know it 
had to come from one of the controls in the group. And if there are 
several different sets of controls, this is the best way to organize 
and streamline things.

I turn Select Grouped Controls on and off all the time when I'm 
working. It took me a while to catch on, but now I'm used to it.

Jim Lyons


From sjoerdoptland at s2theatertechniek.nl  Wed Feb 18 08:42:40 2004
From: sjoerdoptland at s2theatertechniek.nl (Sjoerd Op 't Land)
Date: Wed, 18 Feb 2004 14:42:40 +0100
Subject: Transcript and/or ECMA - guess who started it?
In-Reply-To: <005d01c3f5a7$4f487cc0$6601a8c0@LightningFlash>
Message-ID: <BC592A60.2C03%sjoerdoptland@s2theatertechniek.nl>

Ken Ray wrote/ schreef:

> Actually, Sjoerd, it is probably possible for the parser to understand
> the context so that a different operator may not be needed at all.
Of course this is possible. I just don't like a symbol to have a
context-dependent meaning.

When I read my script aloud, I want to be able to just pronounce an '=' as
'is'. ("if myname is sjoerd then beep") When another meaning is introduced,
I will sometimes have to pronounce '=' as 'becomes'.

I know, many languages use this technique, but it is a very special and
beautiful property of xTalks, that one can read a script aloud, and
understand the meaning, without special syntax knowledge.

Regards, / Groeten,
Sjoerd


From graham.samuel at wanadoo.fr  Wed Feb 18 08:56:20 2004
From: graham.samuel at wanadoo.fr (Graham Samuel)
Date: Wed, 18 Feb 2004 14:56:20 +0100
Subject: Interrupting a loop
Message-ID: <6.0.1.1.2.20040218145436.01c78a60@pop3.blueyonder.co.uk>

Thanks to those who responded to this - only one of the methods suggested 
had occurred to me (the state variable), so now I have a lot to think about 
and a lot to learn. I'll report back when I've chosen a method and got it 
working.

Graham

---------------------------------------------------
Graham Samuel / The Living Fossil Co. / UK & France  



From tuviah at runrev.com  Wed Feb 18 09:05:29 2004
From: tuviah at runrev.com (tuviah snyder)
Date: Wed, 18 Feb 2004 09:05:29 -0500
Subject: Transcript and/or ECMA - guess who started it?
References: <20040217231259.B33609300A3@mail.runrev.com>
Message-ID: <002f01c3f628$445e6eb0$1602a8c0@USER>

>Of course someone with knowledge of the parser would have to answer this
>one...
Each statement needs to start with a verb. Rather than break XTalk it would
be more practial support JavaScript as an additional language implemented
using one of many javascript interpreters available.

AFAIK JavaScript is not fond of XTalks syntax too much either:-)

Tuviah


From klaus at major-k.de  Wed Feb 18 09:07:11 2004
From: klaus at major-k.de (Klaus Major)
Date: Wed, 18 Feb 2004 15:07:11 +0100
Subject: OT Yahoo Privacy - lack of
In-Reply-To: <403332FB.5000208@hrz.uni-kassel.de>
References: <403332FB.5000208@hrz.uni-kassel.de>
Message-ID: <BF1CBBDA-621B-11D8-9704-000A27B49A96@major-k.de>

Hi Wilhelm,

> On Tue, 17 Feb 2004  Erik Hansen <erikhans08 at yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>>> FYI, This came to my attention, if its
>>> redundant, my apologies.
>>> Yahoo is now using something called "Web
>>> Beacons" to track Yahoo Group users around
>>> the net and see what you're doing
>>> and where you are going - similar to cookies.
>>> Take a look at their updated privacy statement:
> http://privacy.yahoo.com/privacy/us/pixels/details.html
> (snip)
> A similar lack of Yahoo privacy is apparent when you try to sign up
> as a new member of a Yahoo group.
> When joining the MC_IDE group (arranged by Richard Gaskin), Yahoo
> confronts you with a couple of required fields that should be 
> absolutely of no concern to them.
> So at first I canceled joining the group, but then thought about 
> feeding them fancy data.
> This worked. Yahoo would not accept an age of 1000 years, but accepted 
> 3 years.
>
> For Yahoo I am now a three-year old CEO of an Aerospace Company.

Well, you are simply a "wunderkind" :-D

> Regards,
>
> Wilhelm Sanke

Regards

Klaus Major
klaus at major-k.de
www.major-k.de


From dcragg at lacscentre.co.uk  Wed Feb 18 09:51:08 2004
From: dcragg at lacscentre.co.uk (Dave Cragg)
Date: Wed, 18 Feb 2004 14:51:08 +0000
Subject: Style:  Select Grouped Controls
In-Reply-To: <99E21F0A-60B6-11D8-A69F-000A9567A3E6@swcp.com>
References: <99E21F0A-60B6-11D8-A69F-000A9567A3E6@swcp.com>
Message-ID: <p06020414bc592893fcbc@[192.168.123.7]>

At 12:30 pm -0700 16/2/04, Dar Scott wrote:

>I wonder how folks use "Select Grouped Controls".  Some possible answers:
>
>   [ ] Never.  It shouldn't even be on the tool bar.
>   [ ] Only in special cases and then turn it off.
>   [ ] By default.
>   [ ] Always, of course.
>   [ ] Is this why I keep accidently messing up my group contents?

All of the above. :)

The only thing consistent about my use of this feature is that it's 
never set the way I want it (buttered toast syndrome). Like others 
have said, it would be nice to be able to toggle this easily. My 
preference would be that clicking selects the group and alt-clicking 
selects the individual object. However, I'm too lazy/incompetent to 
think through whether this has knock-ons for other modifier key uses.

Dave

From rcozens at pon.net  Wed Feb 18 09:32:58 2004
From: rcozens at pon.net (Rob Cozens)
Date: Wed, 18 Feb 2004 07:32:58 -0700
Subject: Style:  Select Grouped Controls
In-Reply-To: <p06020414bc592893fcbc@[192.168.123.7]>
References: <99E21F0A-60B6-11D8-A69F-000A9567A3E6@swcp.com>
 <p06020414bc592893fcbc@[192.168.123.7]>
Message-ID: <a05100301bc59264aec20@[66.52.165.107]>

>At 12:30 pm -0700 16/2/04, Dar Scott wrote:
>
>>I wonder how folks use "Select Grouped Controls".  Some possible answers:
>>
>>   [ ] Never.  It shouldn't even be on the tool bar.
>>   [ ] Only in special cases and then turn it off.
>>   [ ] By default.
>>   [ ] Always, of course.
>>   [ ] Is this why I keep accidently messing up my group contents?

Hi All,

When editing a card, I often use the pointer tool to open a control's 
property palette by double-clicking on the control.

If I want to access properties for an individual control (whether 
grouped or solo), I set "Select Grouped Controls".  If I want to 
access properties for a group, I deselect "Select Grouped Controls".

Works for moi.
-- 

Rob Cozens
CCW, Serendipity Software Company
http://www.oenolog.net/who.htm

"And I, which was two fooles, do so grow three;
Who are a little wise, the best fooles bee."

from "The Triple Foole" by John Donne (1572-1631)

From rcozens at pon.net  Wed Feb 18 10:09:32 2004
From: rcozens at pon.net (Rob Cozens)
Date: Wed, 18 Feb 2004 08:09:32 -0700
Subject: Transcript and/or ECMA
Message-ID: <a05100302bc592b551b7b@[66.52.165.107]>

Someone asked me privately if my original response to this thread was 
in opposition to the inclusion of ECMA compliance in Transcript.

For the record, my answer is "No, I posted in opposition to using 
JavaScript syntax to accomplish this."

Every development platform I have learned was designed around a 
unifying syntax.  The one exception was the Bourne (sp?) shell to 
Berkeley Unix/C.  It is a prime example of a collection of commands 
without unifying syntax: the same qualifier had different meaning 
when appended to different commands, and different commands used 
different qualifiers for the same purpose.  No wonder my colleagues 
(Berkeley CS grads) referred to it as "guru friendly" at best and 
"user hostile" at worst.

IMFO, dumping bits of JavaScript, or any other non-xTalks syntax into 
Transcript rather than extending the natural xTalk dialect can only 
hurt Revolution in the long run.
-- 

Rob Cozens
CCW, Serendipity Software Company
http://www.oenolog.net/who.htm

"And I, which was two fooles, do so grow three;
Who are a little wise, the best fooles bee."

from "The Triple Foole" by John Donne (1572-1631)

From jacque at hyperactivesw.com  Wed Feb 18 11:48:07 2004
From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay)
Date: Wed, 18 Feb 2004 10:48:07 -0600
Subject: Transcript and/or ECMA - guess who started it?
In-Reply-To: <002f01c3f628$445e6eb0$1602a8c0@USER>
References: <20040217231259.B33609300A3@mail.runrev.com>
	<002f01c3f628$445e6eb0$1602a8c0@USER>
Message-ID: <40339747.4070401@hyperactivesw.com>

On 2/18/04 8:05 AM, tuviah snyder wrote:

>>Of course someone with knowledge of the parser would have to answer this
>>one...
> 
> Each statement needs to start with a verb. Rather than break XTalk it would
> be more practial support JavaScript as an additional language implemented
> using one of many javascript interpreters available.

This would be awesome, and would allow all sorts of additional 
flexibility. Set the script language to "applescript" and write in 
applescript syntax; set the script language to "javascript" and write in 
that. It would open up whole new worlds.

-- 
Jacqueline Landman Gay         |     jacque at hyperactivesw.com
HyperActive Software           |     http://www.hyperactivesw.com

From jbv.silences at Club-Internet.fr  Wed Feb 18 12:51:01 2004
From: jbv.silences at Club-Internet.fr (jbv)
Date: Wed, 18 Feb 2004 18:51:01 +0100
Subject: Transcript and/or ECMA - guess who started it?
References: <20040217231259.B33609300A3@mail.runrev.com>
	<40339747.4070401@hyperactivesw.com>
Message-ID: <4033A5F3.F84CE82B@Club-Internet.fr>

>
> > Each statement needs to start with a verb. Rather than break XTalk it would
> > be more practial support JavaScript as an additional language implemented
> > using one of many javascript interpreters available.
>
> This would be awesome, and would allow all sorts of additional
> flexibility. Set the script language to "applescript" and write in
> applescript syntax; set the script language to "javascript" and write in
> that. It would open up whole new worlds.

This is probably a dumb question, but what kind of new world would
open the possibility to script a stack in javascript (for instance) ?

Thanks,
JB


From dsc at swcp.com  Wed Feb 18 12:50:26 2004
From: dsc at swcp.com (Dar Scott)
Date: Wed, 18 Feb 2004 10:50:26 -0700
Subject: Transcript and/or ECMA - guess who started it?
In-Reply-To: <002f01c3f628$445e6eb0$1602a8c0@USER>
Message-ID: <EF258720-623A-11D8-82C7-000A9567A3E6@swcp.com>


On Wednesday, February 18, 2004, at 07:05 AM, tuviah snyder wrote:

> Each statement needs to start with a verb.

I am so pleased nobody has suggested LET.   -- Dar


From dsc at swcp.com  Wed Feb 18 13:10:00 2004
From: dsc at swcp.com (Dar Scott)
Date: Wed, 18 Feb 2004 11:10:00 -0700
Subject: Transcript and/or ECMA - guess who started it?
In-Reply-To: <4033A5F3.F84CE82B@Club-Internet.fr>
Message-ID: <AAA3F232-623D-11D8-82C7-000A9567A3E6@swcp.com>


On Wednesday, February 18, 2004, at 10:51 AM, jbv wrote:

> This is probably a dumb question, but what kind of new world would
> open the possibility to script a stack in javascript (for instance) ?

Here is one.  Folks might be making browser controls.  Some might be 
HTML subsets.  Some might be specialized.  Some might be XHTML.  One 
creator of a browser control might want to support javascript.

Dar Scott


From jacque at hyperactivesw.com  Wed Feb 18 13:11:29 2004
From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay)
Date: Wed, 18 Feb 2004 12:11:29 -0600
Subject: Transcript and/or ECMA - guess who started it?
In-Reply-To: <4033A5F3.F84CE82B@Club-Internet.fr>
References: <20040217231259.B33609300A3@mail.runrev.com>
	<40339747.4070401@hyperactivesw.com> <4033A5F3.F84CE82B@Club-Internet.fr>
Message-ID: <4033AAD1.6070405@hyperactivesw.com>

On 2/18/04 11:51 AM, jbv wrote:

> This is probably a dumb question, but what kind of new world would
> open the possibility to script a stack in javascript (for instance) ?

I was thinking of the way HyperCard handled this. There was a popdown 
button at the top of the script editor that allowed the author to set 
the scripting language. HyperCard would accept and use any OSA language 
available in the OS. All you had to do was set the scripting language 
to, for example, "applescript", and when you closed the script editor 
the entire script was compiled using the applescript compiler. You 
didn't have to "do" the script as applescript; it just ran natively that 
way. There was no speed hit when the script ran, because the engine 
didn't have to open and run the compiler the way it does when you "do as 
applescript".

If this technique could be used cross-platform for any available 
compiler, then those who want to write in javascript could do so and 
their scripts would run natively in that language. Ditto for any other 
available language.

-- 
Jacqueline Landman Gay         |     jacque at hyperactivesw.com
HyperActive Software           |     http://www.hyperactivesw.com

From kurtkaufman at hotmail.com  Wed Feb 18 13:19:59 2004
From: kurtkaufman at hotmail.com (Kurt Kaufman)
Date: Wed, 18 Feb 2004 18:19:59 +0000
Subject: OT Yahoo Privacy - lack of
Message-ID: <BAY9-F25uRNrQl7VUjp000628a8@hotmail.com>

"...For Yahoo I am now a three-year old CEO of an Aerospace Company...."

I have some of the best candy you've ever tasted!  If you'll just make your 
"X" right on the bottom line of this contract......

[apologies]

-KK

_________________________________________________________________
Stay informed on Election 2004 and the race to Super Tuesday. 
http://special.msn.com/msn/election2004.armx


From charlessilverman at sympatico.ca  Wed Feb 18 13:22:36 2004
From: charlessilverman at sympatico.ca (Charles Silverman)
Date: Wed, 18 Feb 2004 13:22:36 -0500
Subject: rev and languages
In-Reply-To: <20040218170017.D95069300B7@mail.runrev.com>
References: <20040218170017.D95069300B7@mail.runrev.com>
Message-ID: <6DAB0786-623F-11D8-B166-000A95A0C562@sympatico.ca>

    We make a number of prototypes at our centre. Unfortunately, our 
student programmers won't touch Rev since it's not dot.syntax. As a 
consequence, I have to wait longer for some things or do them myself. 
While the students have seen Rev can do, they are wired to a different 
drummer.
    Having seen this, though, and thinking for awhile that an 
alternative dot.syntax approach made sense, I find myself in agreement 
with Kevin's recent post about the need to have xTalk (transcript)  be 
the scripting language for Rev.
    I think Rev's power is in letting people who aren't necessarily 
engineering types do things that are labor-instensive or difficult to 
do in other environments for anybody. Focusing on building support for 
other language approaches might weaken the revolution (sorry, couldn't 
resist) right now.
    I'd much rather see Rev engineering time go toward fully exploiting 
and integrating Quicktime,(Trevor DeVore's external has been great-- 
many thanks for doing this!). Fully manipulating wired sprites from 
within Rev and not having to rely on LiveStage could give Rev a very 
powerful edge. If my understanding is correct, Apple intended HyperCard 
3.0 to make it easy to do lots of interactive quicktime management, 
including sprite manipulation.

-Charles
_______
Charles Silverman
Researcher
Centre for Learning Technologies
Ryerson University
Toronto, Ontario
CANADA
web: www.ryerson.ca/clt

  


From jbv.silences at Club-Internet.fr  Wed Feb 18 13:24:24 2004
From: jbv.silences at Club-Internet.fr (jbv)
Date: Wed, 18 Feb 2004 19:24:24 +0100
Subject: Transcript and/or ECMA - guess who started it?
References: <20040217231259.B33609300A3@mail.runrev.com>
	<4033A5F3.F84CE82B@Club-Internet.fr>
	<4033AAD1.6070405@hyperactivesw.com>
Message-ID: <4033ADC4.2411A67B@Club-Internet.fr>

Yes, I remember that feature of HC.

But still, I'm asking the question : I can understand the benefit
of coding in AppleScript in a MacOS environment, but I'm
wondering who might be interested to script a stack in javascript
(I've completed a few sophisticated web apps in javascript and
that was some of my worst experiences : even coding in assembler
is more enjoyable)...
I do understand that some folks might build browser control, but
well... considering the gorgeous perspectives of building web apps
with Rev, I have the feeling that working on a browser ctrl in javascript
is a big step backwards somehow...

JB


>
> > This is probably a dumb question, but what kind of new world would
> > open the possibility to script a stack in javascript (for instance) ?
>
> I was thinking of the way HyperCard handled this. There was a popdown
> button at the top of the script editor that allowed the author to set
> the scripting language. HyperCard would accept and use any OSA language
> available in the OS. All you had to do was set the scripting language
> to, for example, "applescript", and when you closed the script editor
> the entire script was compiled using the applescript compiler. You
> didn't have to "do" the script as applescript; it just ran natively that
> way. There was no speed hit when the script ran, because the engine
> didn't have to open and run the compiler the way it does when you "do as
> applescript".
>
> If this technique could be used cross-platform for any available
> compiler, then those who want to write in javascript could do so and
> their scripts would run natively in that language. Ditto for any other
> available language.
>


From ops at myesa.com  Wed Feb 18 13:24:09 2004
From: ops at myesa.com (Ops)
Date: Wed, 18 Feb 2004 12:24:09 -0600
Subject: Transcript and/or ECMA - guess who started it?
In-Reply-To: <4033A5F3.F84CE82B@Club-Internet.fr>
References: <20040217231259.B33609300A3@mail.runrev.com>
	<40339747.4070401@hyperactivesw.com> <4033A5F3.F84CE82B@Club-Internet.fr>
Message-ID: <4033ADC9.8050308@myesa.com>

I'm *really* not following the wisdom of all this...to me, IT'S NOT 
BROKE (Transcript language-wise)...if this discussion is based in a 
desire for current Rev programmers to have Transcript understand a 
syntax that they may be more familiar with, then I think it's insane to 
accommodate that desire, as the more Rev/Transcript is used, the more 
folks in that category will appreciate and embrace the virtues of 
current Transcript.  If this discussion is designed to increase the Rev 
developer crowd by offering a syntax that is more prolific to the 
developer community, then I think that other methods would be much more 
wise to employ, such as fixing bugs and improving Rev PR in general...

just .02 from a fairly new Rev developer.

jbv wrote:

>>>Each statement needs to start with a verb. Rather than break XTalk it would
>>>be more practial support JavaScript as an additional language implemented
>>>using one of many javascript interpreters available.
>>
>>This would be awesome, and would allow all sorts of additional
>>flexibility. Set the script language to "applescript" and write in
>>applescript syntax; set the script language to "javascript" and write in
>>that. It would open up whole new worlds.
> 
> 
> This is probably a dumb question, but what kind of new world would
> open the possibility to script a stack in javascript (for instance) ?
> 
> Thanks,
> JB
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
> 
> 

From jbv.silences at Club-Internet.fr  Wed Feb 18 13:29:36 2004
From: jbv.silences at Club-Internet.fr (jbv)
Date: Wed, 18 Feb 2004 19:29:36 +0100
Subject: Transcript and/or ECMA - guess who started it?
References: <20040217231259.B33609300A3@mail.runrev.com>
	<4033A5F3.F84CE82B@Club-Internet.fr>
	<4033AAD1.6070405@hyperactivesw.com>
Message-ID: <4033AEFC.3004147E@Club-Internet.fr>

This post is slightly OT, but a nice improvement of the Rev
engine (rather than the Transcript interpreter itself) would be
to break its present monolithic nature and split it into various
librairies (a bit like C librairies).
This feature would be irrelevant in the IDE, but when building
standalones, the engine would scan all objects and scripts of
a stack and would determine which librairies are necessary and
would attach only those to the standalone.
That would drastically reduce the final size of some apps : too
many times I've had to build small utilities (installers...) with
less than 1 Kb of script, but saw my standalone grow above
1.2 Mb...

JB


From jbv.silences at Club-Internet.fr  Wed Feb 18 13:38:27 2004
From: jbv.silences at Club-Internet.fr (jbv)
Date: Wed, 18 Feb 2004 19:38:27 +0100
Subject: rev and languages
References: <20040218170017.D95069300B7@mail.runrev.com>
	<6DAB0786-623F-11D8-B166-000A95A0C562@sympatico.ca>
Message-ID: <4033B10F.9CC61791@Club-Internet.fr>



Charles Silverman a *crit :

>     I think Rev's power is in letting people who aren't necessarily
> engineering types do things that are labor-instensive or difficult to
> do in other environments for anybody. Focusing on building support for
> other language approaches might weaken the revolution (sorry, couldn't
> resist) right now.

I must admit that I agree with the above.
IMHO, if one decides to modify Transcript to accomodate the dot
syntax because many coders are used to it, the next decision might
be to drop cross-platform compatibility because 85 to 90% of ppl
on this planet work in a Windows environment...

Yes, I'm a bit overreacting, but you see my point.

Jb


From ambassador at fourthworld.com  Wed Feb 18 13:39:34 2004
From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin)
Date: Wed, 18 Feb 2004 10:39:34 -0800
Subject: Transcript and/or ECMA - guess who started it?
In-Reply-To: <4033ADC9.8050308@myesa.com>
Message-ID: <BC58F166.3DA45%ambassador@fourthworld.com>

Ops wrote:

> the more Rev/Transcript is used, the more folks in that category
> will appreciate and embrace the virtues of current Transcript.

If implented as Tuviah proposed it may actually have the opposite,
beneficial effect:  by allowing the world's most popular scripting language
as a switchable option some folks might jump on board more quickly, and once
they have the tool in hand sooner or later they'll take a look at Transcript
and realize they've been working way too hard. :)

> If this discussion is designed to increase the Rev
> developer crowd by offering a syntax that is more prolific to the
> developer community, then I think that other methods would be much more
> wise to employ, such as fixing bugs and improving Rev PR in general...

Agreed: bug fixes are far more useful for evangelizing right now than new
features.  The current excellent feature set just won a Mac Eddy, now it's
time to make the experience of those features as smooth as silk.

-- 
 Richard Gaskin 
 Fourth World Media Corporation
 ___________________________________________________________
 Ambassador at FourthWorld.com       http://www.FourthWorld.com


From ops at myesa.com  Wed Feb 18 13:48:48 2004
From: ops at myesa.com (Ops)
Date: Wed, 18 Feb 2004 12:48:48 -0600
Subject: Transcript and/or ECMA - guess who started it?
In-Reply-To: <BC58F166.3DA45%ambassador@fourthworld.com>
References: <BC58F166.3DA45%ambassador@fourthworld.com>
Message-ID: <4033B390.9030304@myesa.com>


>>the more Rev/Transcript is used, the more folks in that category
>>will appreciate and embrace the virtues of current Transcript.
> 
> 
> If implented as Tuviah proposed it may actually have the opposite,
> beneficial effect:  by allowing the world's most popular scripting language
> as a switchable option some folks might jump on board more quickly, and once
> they have the tool in hand sooner or later they'll take a look at Transcript
> and realize they've been working way too hard. :)
> 

True enough Richard, but, I'm sure Rev resources are not unlimited, and 
if this is done at a long-term cost to the efficacy of the existing 
product, then I'm sure all would agree that those efforts would be 
"foot-shooting"...I for one, would like Rev to stay ontrack with the 
existing structure and not go off on tangents that would (IMHO) make the 
core product suffer.  "Staying the course" (again IMHO) would prove most 
beneficial to Rev in the long run.

Opie

From dsc at swcp.com  Wed Feb 18 14:05:28 2004
From: dsc at swcp.com (Dar Scott)
Date: Wed, 18 Feb 2004 12:05:28 -0700
Subject: Transcript and/or ECMA - guess who started it?
In-Reply-To: <4033ADC4.2411A67B@Club-Internet.fr>
Message-ID: <6A20EA83-6245-11D8-82C7-000A9567A3E6@swcp.com>


On Wednesday, February 18, 2004, at 11:24 AM, jbv wrote:

> I do understand that some folks might build browser control, but
> well... considering the gorgeous perspectives of building web apps
> with Rev, I have the feeling that working on a browser ctrl in 
> javascript
> is a big step backwards somehow...

One might need so support javascript in loaded web pages.  That person 
will either need to build javascript with Transcript or use some other 
method.  If it is available among 'do' languages that person might 
exploit it.

All that is regardless of where such a thing is in priorities or even 
if it should be on the list.

Dar Scott


From jacque at hyperactivesw.com  Wed Feb 18 14:47:24 2004
From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay)
Date: Wed, 18 Feb 2004 13:47:24 -0600
Subject: Transcript and/or ECMA - guess who started it?
In-Reply-To: <4033B390.9030304@myesa.com>
References: <BC58F166.3DA45%ambassador@fourthworld.com>
	<4033B390.9030304@myesa.com>
Message-ID: <4033C14C.6050405@hyperactivesw.com>

On 2/18/04 12:48 PM, Ops wrote:

> True enough Richard, but, I'm sure Rev resources are not unlimited, and 
> if this is done at a long-term cost to the efficacy of the existing 
> product, then I'm sure all would agree that those efforts would be 
> "foot-shooting"...I for one, would like Rev to stay ontrack with the 
> existing structure and not go off on tangents that would (IMHO) make the 
> core product suffer.

I agree completely. The "cool factor" of alternate scripting languages 
should be a future enhancement. It would be nice to have, but I didn't 
mean to imply it should be done immediately. Just something to think 
about later on.

-- 
Jacqueline Landman Gay         |     jacque at hyperactivesw.com
HyperActive Software           |     http://www.hyperactivesw.com

From ops at myesa.com  Wed Feb 18 14:58:50 2004
From: ops at myesa.com (Ops)
Date: Wed, 18 Feb 2004 13:58:50 -0600
Subject: Transcript and/or ECMA - guess who started it?
In-Reply-To: <4033C14C.6050405@hyperactivesw.com>
References: <BC58F166.3DA45%ambassador@fourthworld.com>
	<4033B390.9030304@myesa.com> <4033C14C.6050405@hyperactivesw.com>
Message-ID: <4033C3FA.8020009@myesa.com>

Ah!  my bad and my apologies...I probably didn't read back far 
enough...it's just a "hot button" with me after having been involved 
with so many companies that just don't know how to *FOCUS*...and thus 
never do anything well, let alone excellent.  I must've "jumped in" to 
the middle of this and could not contain the *FOCUS* beast inside of me. 
  Cheers to all!

Opie

J. Landman Gay wrote:
> On 2/18/04 12:48 PM, Ops wrote:
> 
>> True enough Richard, but, I'm sure Rev resources are not unlimited, 
>> and if this is done at a long-term cost to the efficacy of the 
>> existing product, then I'm sure all would agree that those efforts 
>> would be "foot-shooting"...I for one, would like Rev to stay ontrack 
>> with the existing structure and not go off on tangents that would 
>> (IMHO) make the core product suffer.
> 
> 
> I agree completely. The "cool factor" of alternate scripting languages 
> should be a future enhancement. It would be nice to have, but I didn't 
> mean to imply it should be done immediately. Just something to think 
> about later on.
> 

From jeff.morrison at radioshack.com  Wed Feb 18 15:05:04 2004
From: jeff.morrison at radioshack.com (Jeff Morrison)
Date: Wed, 18 Feb 2004 14:05:04 -0600
Subject: This email list
Message-ID: <BC592190.861%jeff.morrison@radioshack.com>


Is this email list powered by a revolution application?  If so, I'm staying
away from revolution because I've tried to unsubscribe about 16 times now,
and I'm still getting these emails.

JM


From alex at mindlube.com  Wed Feb 18 15:18:17 2004
From: alex at mindlube.com (Alex Rice)
Date: Wed, 18 Feb 2004 13:18:17 -0700
Subject: This email list
In-Reply-To: <BC592190.861%jeff.morrison@radioshack.com>
References: <BC592190.861%jeff.morrison@radioshack.com>
Message-ID: <96664856-624F-11D8-A5C8-000393C4760A@mindlube.com>


On Feb 18, 2004, at 1:05 PM, Jeff Morrison wrote:

>
> Is this email list powered by a revolution application?

No I believe the software is GNU Mailman, which is widely used for  
running mailing lists. Mailman is written in Python, not Runrev AFAIK.

>  If so, I'm staying
> away from revolution

Ooooo.

> because I've tried to unsubscribe about 16 times now,
> and I'm still getting these emails.

In the past I've never had trouble unsubscribing from runrev.com  
mailing lists. I am currently subsribed to 3 different lists from  
runrev.com.

If your email reader is capable of showing all headers, look at the  
List* headers on any message posted to this list:

	List-Id: 	Improvements to Revolution  
<improve-revolution.lists.runrev.com>
	List-Unsubscribe:  
	<http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/improve-revolution>,  
<mailto:improve-revolution-request at lists.runrev.com? 
subject=unsubscribe>
	List-Archive:  
	<http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/private/improve-revolution>
	List-Post: 	<mailto:improve-revolution at lists.runrev.com>
	List-Help:  
	<mailto:improve-revolution-request at lists.runrev.com?subject=help>
	List-Subscribe:  
	<http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/improve-revolution>,  
<mailto:improve-revolution-request at lists.runrev.com?subject=subscribe>

There are email addresses shown there for Help and Unsubscribing. Try  
those if the web interface is not working for you.

Hope this helps,

--
Alex Rice | Mindlube Software | http://mindlube.com


From gizmotron at earthlink.net  Wed Feb 18 15:19:37 2004
From: gizmotron at earthlink.net (Mark Brownell)
Date: Wed, 18 Feb 2004 12:19:37 -0800
Subject: This email list
In-Reply-To: <BC592190.861%jeff.morrison@radioshack.com>
Message-ID: <C631BFAA-624F-11D8-826B-000A95859272@earthlink.net>


On Wednesday, February 18, 2004, at 12:05  PM, Jeff Morrison wrote:

>
> Is this email list powered by a revolution application?  If so, I'm 
> staying
> away from revolution because I've tried to unsubscribe about 16 times 
> now,
> and I'm still getting these emails.
>
> JM

Hope this helps, powered by Python...

At the rev site there's this:
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution

at the bottom:
[Unsubscribe or edit options button]
If you leave the field blank, you will be prompted for your email 
address

-----------------
http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users

Mailman is the GNU mailing list manager. It provides standard list 
management features, integrated with a web interface.


From chrism at lumin.us  Wed Feb 18 15:18:28 2004
From: chrism at lumin.us (Christopher Mitchell)
Date: Wed, 18 Feb 2004 14:18:28 -0600
Subject: Place group on all cards, after already duplicated
Message-ID: <9CDDEA0A-624F-11D8-B8ED-000393B64EDC@lumin.us>

Howdy,

Just wondering if there is a way to place a group on all cards - if you 
realized after you've already duplicated and individualized all cards 
in a particular stack with an original, but deficient, set of controls. 
  kind of like "oops I really should have put a "close" button in this..

Just off the top of my head, adding that extra control to the 
originally duplicated group should do it, right?

on the other hand, if you wanted it to be a separate group, one might 
have to do something like (this is very mocked up)

repeat with i = 1 to the number of cards
   place group "foo"
end repeat

I don't particularly want to add it to the original control group, but 
I don't want to edit each individual card either. the UI makes 
accessing card elements and doing multicard edits or even multicard 
deletions difficult unless you write a small script to do it.

or maybe I just don't know what's going on!

Yours,
Chris


From JimCarwardine at OwnYourFuture-net.com  Wed Feb 18 15:17:21 2004
From: JimCarwardine at OwnYourFuture-net.com (Jim Carwardine)
Date: Wed, 18 Feb 2004 16:17:21 -0400
Subject: Using a field as a menu
In-Reply-To: <4033C14C.6050405@hyperactivesw.com>
Message-ID: <BC594091.54C1%JimCarwardine@OwnYourFuture-net.com>

I want to create a button that pulls down a menu of colour choices similar
to what you might see in MS Word or Excel.  To do that, I've created a plain
button that, when the mouse is down I show a field with several buttons
displayed in front of it so the effect looks like a menu which the user then
drags the mouse over the button showing the colour they want and select it.

The behaviour I want is to show the focus border as they drag across a
colour button, then have the colour button accept the mouseUp and execute a
colour change several text fields.  It seems as as though the first button
keeps control of the mouse until the mouse button is released.  I seem to
recall someone mentioning something similar to this but I can't find any
references to it.  Has this been discussed or is there an easier way?  Jim
-- 

OYF is... Highly resourceful people working together.
<http://www.OwnYourFuture-net.com>

Own Your Future Consulting Services Limited,
1959 Upper Water Street, Suite 407, Halifax, Nova Scotia. B3J 3N2
Info Line: 902-823-2477, Phone: 902-823-2339. Fax: 902-823-2139




From sanke at hrz.uni-kassel.de  Wed Feb 18 16:03:43 2004
From: sanke at hrz.uni-kassel.de (Wilhelm Sanke)
Date: Wed, 18 Feb 2004 22:03:43 +0100
Subject: Transparent Dialogs and Multiple Choice Tutorial
Message-ID: <4033D32F.7040509@hrz.uni-kassel.de>

"User contributions" have been updated, surely a sign that Heather 
Williams has recovered that much to be able to lend a hand again. 
Welcome back and best wishes for a complete recovery in the immediate 
future!

I uploaded two contributions to the RunRev site:

- "Transparent Dialogs" and sort of a  "Multiple Choice Tutorial" - a 
stack I choose mainly, but not only,  to show how the dialogs behave.

The "transparent dialogs" - modified ask and answer dialogs that can be 
used with the "ask"- and "answer"-commands- differ in three respects 
from the Rev dialogs:

- They do *not* display the sometimes exaggerated width of the dialogs 
provided with version 2.1.2 of Revolution, about which list members have 
complained.

- The location of the dialogs can be set anywhere relative to the 
calling stack or the screen by adding a script line before using the 
"answer"- or
  "ask"-command like with
   "set the NewLoc of stack "answer dialog" to x,y".
   Of course you have to compute the relative position x,y before.
    "NewLoc" is a custom property that is set to empty when the stack 
closes; thus, if you do not specify a NewLoc, the dialog stacks are set 
to the
     center of the calling stack (or somewhat lower on MacOS) as usual.

-  The "transparent dialogs" show the underlying area of the calling 
stack or screen beneath a semi-transparent background-PNG. The 
transparency of the covering PNG is set to about 35% to allow viewing 
the underlying area and at the same time enabling the user  to read the 
text of the dialogs.
I have also set the textsize to 14, the textstyle to bold, and the 
textfont to "verdana" - a font both available on the Mac and Wimdows 
platforms - to improve readability.
The "transparency" is achieved by taking a snapshot of the underlying 
area before opening the dialog stack and putting the snapshot on layer 1 
under the semi-transparent PNG. The ID of the incorporated snapshot 
image is reset each time to the same value when the dialog is opened.

If you should like to try out - and possibly further modify - these 
dialogs, you could replace the Revolution dialogs with these 
"transparent dialogs", but I would recommend to set  them as substacks 
of any stacks of your choice. Thus they would be called instead of the 
dialogs of the Revolution IDE (or - for that matter - the Metacard IDE) 
when you use the "answer"- or "ask"-commands.

If you don't like the imported semi-transparent pngs of the dialogs, 
just replace them - at the same layer - with a semi-transparent png of 
your choice.
As the width and height of the dialogs differ, you need to use a PNG 
with a size that takes into account the expected maximum size of the 
dialogs.

(Tested on Windows XP, 98, and MacOS X).--


The "Multiple Choice Tutorial" is more an introductory demonstration of 
different multiple-choice formats with short explanations than an 
explicit tutorial with a detailed discussion of the pros and cons of 
each format.

Multiple Choice is a very common, but by modern standards  not very 
effective teaching and testing tool. Even the  SAT and ACT tests are 
slowly undergoing changes today as non-multiple-choice portions are 
added to them.
But multiple-choice still remains  a widely used test format (e.g. 
Stephen Messimer's "Preceptor Tools" also contain  different 
multiple-choice types) and students are eager to learn how to construct 
and use them.

I  translated a sample stack - that  we use at our institution as an 
introduction for students -  hopefully into understandable English.

This stacks contains 7 different formats of multiple-choice questions, 
arranged in "incremental" steps from a primitive version with fixed 
positions of solution and distractors (which should be avoided by all 
means) to a version with flexible positioning with the option to choose 
the number of problems from a repertoire and a "loop" for unsolved 
problems. After all problems have been worked on, the user gets the 
option to try the "wrong" problems once more etc. Thus the programs 
adapts to the individual needs of the user.

There are a number of things that need to be refined or "fine-tuned" 
(like restricting user input into the ask dialog to a certain range and 
specific keys) as it is not a final application intended for sale.

For better inspection the scripts are distributed across a number of 
buttons whose script lengths are similar - but not equal - to the 
Starter Kit limits, but most of these can only be edited with licensed 
versions of Metacard or Revolution.

The scripts can also be inspected easily by pressing the "display 
scripts" button and moving the mouse cursor over the buttons.

The stack uses the "transparent dialogs" described above.

Regards,

Wilhelm Sanke



From jacque at hyperactivesw.com  Wed Feb 18 16:20:48 2004
From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay)
Date: Wed, 18 Feb 2004 15:20:48 -0600
Subject: This email list
In-Reply-To: <C631BFAA-624F-11D8-826B-000A95859272@earthlink.net>
References: <C631BFAA-624F-11D8-826B-000A95859272@earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <4033D730.90601@hyperactivesw.com>

On 2/18/04 2:19 PM, Mark Brownell wrote:

> 
> On Wednesday, February 18, 2004, at 12:05  PM, Jeff Morrison wrote:
> 
>>
>> Is this email list powered by a revolution application?  If so, I'm 
>> staying
>> away from revolution because I've tried to unsubscribe about 16 times 
>> now,
>> and I'm still getting these emails.
>>
>> JM
> 
> 
> Hope this helps, powered by Python...
> 
> At the rev site there's this:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
> 
> at the bottom:
> [Unsubscribe or edit options button]
> If you leave the field blank, you will be prompted for your email address

And if that doesn't work, drop a note to support at runrev.com.

I just unsubbed someone yesterday with the same problem. The problem is 
often that you are trying to unsub using an address that isn't actually 
the one you subscribed with. At any rate, support can fix it.

-- 
Jacqueline Landman Gay         |     jacque at hyperactivesw.com
HyperActive Software           |     http://www.hyperactivesw.com

From mpetrides at earthlink.net  Wed Feb 18 16:25:16 2004
From: mpetrides at earthlink.net (Marian Petrides)
Date: Wed, 18 Feb 2004 16:25:16 -0500
Subject: This email list  OT humor (unsub)
In-Reply-To: <4033D730.90601@hyperactivesw.com>
References: <C631BFAA-624F-11D8-826B-000A95859272@earthlink.net>
	<4033D730.90601@hyperactivesw.com>
Message-ID: <F1C387E7-6258-11D8-A675-000A959D005E@earthlink.net>

And all this time, I thought "unsub" was an unknown perpetrator 
(unknown subject).  Ok, I know, too much crime fiction for me. ;-0  
Sorry, I couldn't resist.

M
On Feb 18, 2004, at 4:20 PM, J. Landman Gay wrote:

>  trying to unsub


From gizmotron at earthlink.net  Wed Feb 18 16:48:01 2004
From: gizmotron at earthlink.net (Mark Brownell)
Date: Wed, 18 Feb 2004 13:48:01 -0800
Subject: This email list  OT humor (unsub)
In-Reply-To: <F1C387E7-6258-11D8-A675-000A959D005E@earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <1FF1EBF0-625C-11D8-826B-000A95859272@earthlink.net>


On Wednesday, February 18, 2004, at 01:25  PM, Marian Petrides wrote:

> And all this time, I thought "unsub" was an unknown perpetrator 
> (unknown subject).  Ok, I know, too much crime fiction for me. ;-0  
> Sorry, I couldn't resist.

def 1.) "Unsub" is when an over ambitious sub-contractor tries to take 
over the full contract. This often leads to the situation unTort which 
is an after effect, by-product of often abandon contracts caused by the 
first part's actions. It is often a good practice to first squelch the 
ambitions of some sub-contractors before they ever get these big ideas 
to "Unsub."

def 2.) "Unsub" is when somebody leaves the screen door open on a 
submarine...


From francois.cuneo at cuk.ch  Wed Feb 18 17:07:44 2004
From: francois.cuneo at cuk.ch (Fran=?ISO-8859-1?B?5w==?=ois Cuneo)
Date: Wed, 18 Feb 2004 23:07:44 +0100
Subject: Fixed-time timers problem-help!
In-Reply-To: <C4A020B8-8325-11D7-AB88-0003934CC552@deepfoo.com>
Message-ID: <BC59A0C0.113BC%francois.cuneo@cuk.ch>

Le 10.5.2003 22:27, Bryan McCormick ? bryan at deepfoo.com a ?crit:

Hello every body!

I want to start in a field "timer" with 0:00:10

I click on a button that is "Start Timer"
The button change his label as "Stop Timer"

Two seconds after the first clic, I clic again on the button.

I want of course that the field shows "0:00:08"

Is it difficult to do that? With HyperCard and supercard, I was able to do
that but with Revolution?

Thank you!

Amicalement
Fran?ois
--------------------------------------------------------------------------

Fran?ois Cuneo
Au Champ du Pr?
1353 Bofflens

e-mail: mailto:francois.cuneo at cuk.ch

Web Cuk New Technologies, programmes ?ducatifs pour Mac: http://www.cuk.ch
Web CUK, humeurs et tests sur le mac: http://www.cuk.ch/articles

T?l: ++41 (024) 441.17.81
Fax: ++41 (024) 441.17.05




From b.xavier at internet.lu  Wed Feb 18 17:27:30 2004
From: b.xavier at internet.lu (MisterX)
Date: Wed, 18 Feb 2004 23:27:30 +0100
Subject: Transcript and/or ECMA - guess who started it?
In-Reply-To: <4033AEFC.3004147E@Club-Internet.fr>
Message-ID: <ENEALNOCJBOOOHHCCEKNCEHEFNAA.b.xavier@internet.lu>

bla bla bla

You want it? Really? Dont like gcc C or perl editors?
Like pretyping? Macros pretyped editor?

Easy...

You just have to take my script editor and add my c/java[script],
etc translator coupled to the auto-complete script.

Here's what it could look like...
http://monsieurx.com/modules.php?name=News&file=article&sid=129
(MetaCard IDE only!!!)

But learning drifting is more rewarding... If there's time, I'll 
put it in. But I think my race car will be finished before ;)

But I'll do it in exchange for an urgently needed german-spec 
Z3M catalizer/silencer exhaust assembly...  

cheers
X


From revdan at danshafer.com  Wed Feb 18 12:15:10 2004
From: revdan at danshafer.com (Dan Shafer)
Date: Wed, 18 Feb 2004 09:15:10 -0800
Subject: Transcript handling of OR and AND expressions
In-Reply-To: <176997033.20040126093023@ahsoftware.net>
References: <7C9DD51D-4FF9-11D8-BEAE-000A95893982@earthlink.net>
	<176997033.20040126093023@ahsoftware.net>
Message-ID: <01E606BC-6236-11D8-9EB8-0030656FB5D4@danshafer.com>

This is, relatively speaking at least, how all of the major programming 
languages work. There's even a name for it. I think it might be called 
something like "lazy" Boolean evaluation.

In any case, while Jim is right that this can be an issue if you use 
expressions with side effects, the professional coders I've discussed 
this with -- and there haven't been that many -- have essentially said, 
"Don't include expressions in Boolean logic statements if thos 
expressions have side effects. Rather, evaluate the expressions outside 
the Boolean logic statement."

On Jan 26, 2004, at 9:30 AM, Mark Wieder wrote:

> Jim-
>
> Monday, January 26, 2004, 4:16:36 AM, you wrote:
>
> JL> The docs don't say AFAIK, but I always wondered, so just now I 
> tested
> JL> this. It's a good thing to know about sometimes.
>
> Well, it is indeed good to know about, but I'd be *very* wary about
> relying on behavior that isn't documented. You run a good chance of
> your code breaking for no apparent reason in a future rev release.
>
> OTOH, I *like* this behavior a lot, and it would be good to get a
> ruling from runrev on whether this is by design (and therefore
> destined to be in the docs).
>
> -- 
> -Mark Wieder
>  mwieder at ahsoftware.net
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>


From jacque at hyperactivesw.com  Wed Feb 18 17:33:17 2004
From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay)
Date: Wed, 18 Feb 2004 16:33:17 -0600
Subject: Using a field as a menu
In-Reply-To: <BC594091.54C1%JimCarwardine@OwnYourFuture-net.com>
References: <BC594091.54C1%JimCarwardine@OwnYourFuture-net.com>
Message-ID: <4033E82D.8090605@hyperactivesw.com>

On 2/18/04 2:17 PM, Jim Carwardine wrote:

> I want to create a button that pulls down a menu of colour choices similar
> to what you might see in MS Word or Excel.  To do that, I've created a plain
> button that, when the mouse is down I show a field with several buttons
> displayed in front of it so the effect looks like a menu which the user then
> drags the mouse over the button showing the colour they want and select it.
> 
> The behaviour I want is to show the focus border as they drag across a
> colour button, then have the colour button accept the mouseUp and execute a
> colour change several text fields.  It seems as as though the first button
> keeps control of the mouse until the mouse button is released.  I seem to
> recall someone mentioning something similar to this but I can't find any
> references to it.  Has this been discussed or is there an easier way?  Jim

This is a good candidate for making a substack and popping it up with 
the "popup" command. You can put anything you want in the first card of 
the substack. Usually it is a bunch of buttons stacked in a column. I 
haven't tried using anything else (like color fields,) but in theory it 
should work. When you popup the substack, each line auto-hilites just 
like a menu does. You don't have to do anything special to get the effect.

-- 
Jacqueline Landman Gay         |     jacque at hyperactivesw.com
HyperActive Software           |     http://www.hyperactivesw.com

From pixelbird at interisland.net  Wed Feb 18 17:38:33 2004
From: pixelbird at interisland.net (Ken Norris)
Date: Wed, 18 Feb 2004 14:38:33 -0800
Subject: This email list
In-Reply-To: <20040218212109.5A5A8930156@mail.runrev.com>
Message-ID: <BC592969.510E%pixelbird@interisland.net>

Hello Jeff,

> Date: Wed, 18 Feb 2004 14:05:04 -0600
> From: Jeff Morrison <jeff.morrison at radioshack.com>
> Subject: This email list

Try these:

To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit

<http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution>

or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to

<use-revolution-request at lists.runrev.com>

You can reach the person managing the list at

<use-revolution-owner at lists.runrev.com>

HTH,
Ken N.


From klaus at major-k.de  Wed Feb 18 17:41:38 2004
From: klaus at major-k.de (Klaus Major)
Date: Wed, 18 Feb 2004 23:41:38 +0100
Subject: Fixed-time timers problem-help!
In-Reply-To: <BC59A0C0.113BC%francois.cuneo@cuk.ch>
References: <BC59A0C0.113BC%francois.cuneo@cuk.ch>
Message-ID: <9CEA235E-6263-11D8-9704-000A27B49A96@major-k.de>

Bon soir Fran?ois,

> Le 10.5.2003 22:27, Bryan McCormick ? bryan at deepfoo.com a ?crit:
>
> Hello every body!
>
> I want to start in a field "timer" with 0:00:10
>
> I click on a button that is "Start Timer"
> The button change his label as "Stop Timer"
>
> Two seconds after the first clic, I clic again on the button.
>
> I want of course that the field shows "0:00:08"
>
> Is it difficult to do that? With HyperCard and supercard, I was able 
> to do
> that but with Revolution?
>
> Thank you!

You can use this li'l function to convert your secs to SMPTE (Lite :-)

function smpte_lite dauer1
   set the numberformat to xx
   put dauer1 div 60 into minu
   put dauer1 mod 60 into seku
   return "00" & ":" & minu & ":" & seku
end smpte_lite

Use it this way:

...
    put smpte_lite(the secs - the_startsecs) into fld "timer"
...

Hope that helps

> Amicalement
> Fran?ois

Regards

Klaus Major
klaus at major-k.de
www.major-k.de


From b.xavier at internet.lu  Wed Feb 18 18:03:20 2004
From: b.xavier at internet.lu (MisterX)
Date: Thu, 19 Feb 2004 00:03:20 +0100
Subject: discrete beta surprise
In-Reply-To: <92FA78C4-618A-11D8-AEA6-000A9567A3E6@swcp.com>
Message-ID: <ENEALNOCJBOOOHHCCEKNKEHFFNAA.b.xavier@internet.lu>

If you liked DiscreteBrowser 1.4, well, 1.5 is just better...
But if 1.5 is got to be THE release, your help is appreciated

I added a beta to let you know that's it's thanks to your
effort that all bugs got and can be squished!
No strings attached cause I wont feel responsible for the
number of votes on the bugzilla below though if this stack
is popular!

Last release URL for discrete browsers...
http://monsieurx.com/modules.php?name=Downloads&d_op=getit&lid=45
keep hitting this for the last release. If anyone is interested in
receiving a notification, let me know...

If you're not registered and still dont want to use fun, safe,
free modern technology... (warning: case sensitive - url will change)
http://monsieurx.com/hyper/stacks/DiscreteBrowser1.5b2.zip

Your comments are welcome via the usual comment links ;)

Send your flames and improvements to x at monsieurx.com...

Known bugs:
- Still may not resolve linkclick urls fully (embrace change!)
- Improve display with unfinished html filtering via the XOS
  text filter engine not finished (disabled for your safety).
- ER Life support interface still buggy - testers needed.

Although I added the warning in the help field which you're supposed
to read in full ;) here it is:

Warning:
Discrete browser is by default set to strip images from the html display
because it can crash RR or MC (OSX and Win32 alike). It's not a Discrete
bug, this should be a known IDE bug - alas I got zarro searching it.
Other stripping options simply there because they are futile in the rev!
http://www.runrev.com/revolution/developers/bugdatabase/show_bug.cgi?id=1219
It's nice to see you're bugs being taken care of, thanks Ken and Tuv...

How hard must it be to make an external
via the open-source zilla engine?
Swap javascript for transcript... go wild...

Should I add HTML editing anyone?

cheers
 X


From jiml at netrin.com  Wed Feb 18 17:56:54 2004
From: jiml at netrin.com (Jim Lambert)
Date: Wed, 18 Feb 2004 14:56:54 -0800
Subject: Transcript and/or ECMA - guess who started it?
In-Reply-To: <20040218185042.9CE709300FA@mail.runrev.com>
Message-ID: <NEBBICMMKLOIPMPOLALAKEDMGCAA.jiml@netrin.com>

<by allowing the world's most popular scripting language
as a switchable option some folks might jump on board more quickly>

Tha latest version of Director has now added support for Javascript. The
main reason given is exactly that - the hope that more programmers will come
into the Director fold. It remains to be seen if this will happen. Perhaps
RuntimeRev should just wait to see what success Macromedia has in trying to
woo Javascripters.

Jim Lambert
---
Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
Version: 6.0.583 / Virus Database: 369 - Release Date: 2/10/04


From nnoydb at excite.com  Wed Feb 18 18:08:11 2004
From: nnoydb at excite.com (Kevin)
Date: Wed, 18 Feb 2004 18:08:11 -0500 (EST)
Subject: Crypt API 
Message-ID: <20040218230811.EC8E119737D@xprdmailfe3.nwk.excite.com>



Any one know a crypt API for Revolution looking for:

SHA1 MD5 RC4 
Public-Private Key Encryption 



_______________________________________________
Join Excite! - http://www.excite.com
The most personalized portal on the Web!

From b.xavier at internet.lu  Wed Feb 18 18:22:59 2004
From: b.xavier at internet.lu (MisterX)
Date: Thu, 19 Feb 2004 00:22:59 +0100
Subject: rev and languages
In-Reply-To: <6DAB0786-623F-11D8-B166-000A95A0C562@sympatico.ca>
Message-ID: <ENEALNOCJBOOOHHCCEKNIEHGFNAA.b.xavier@internet.lu>

Takes me less time to script something in RR than find the right
grep syntax... Transcript has other powers like easy to copy
paste and easier to read... that's enough practical power that many
other languages lack in one point or the other.

Also representation of data via dot is harder than

variable[propname,value]

the hick is that transcript can be verbose where
other languages can take a quick shortcut

 x = variable[propname++].value

one is definetely harder to debug though...

> -----Original Message-----
> From: use-revolution-bounces at lists.runrev.com
> [mailto:use-revolution-bounces at lists.runrev.com]On Behalf Of Charles
> Silverman
> Sent: Wednesday, February 18, 2004 19:23
> To: use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> Subject: rev and languages
> 
> 
>     We make a number of prototypes at our centre. Unfortunately, our 
> student programmers won't touch Rev since it's not dot.syntax. As a 
> consequence, I have to wait longer for some things or do them myself. 
> While the students have seen Rev can do, they are wired to a different 
> drummer.
>     Having seen this, though, and thinking for awhile that an 
> alternative dot.syntax approach made sense, I find myself in agreement 
> with Kevin's recent post about the need to have xTalk (transcript)  be 
> the scripting language for Rev.
>     I think Rev's power is in letting people who aren't necessarily 
> engineering types do things that are labor-instensive or difficult to 
> do in other environments for anybody. Focusing on building support for 
> other language approaches might weaken the revolution (sorry, couldn't 
> resist) right now.
>     I'd much rather see Rev engineering time go toward fully exploiting 
> and integrating Quicktime,(Trevor DeVore's external has been great-- 
> many thanks for doing this!). Fully manipulating wired sprites from 
> within Rev and not having to rely on LiveStage could give Rev a very 
> powerful edge. If my understanding is correct, Apple intended HyperCard 
> 3.0 to make it easy to do lots of interactive quicktime management, 
> including sprite manipulation.
> 
> -Charles
> _______
> Charles Silverman
> Researcher
> Centre for Learning Technologies
> Ryerson University
> Toronto, Ontario
> CANADA
> web: www.ryerson.ca/clt
> 
>   
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution

From mpetrides at earthlink.net  Wed Feb 18 18:39:21 2004
From: mpetrides at earthlink.net (Marian Petrides)
Date: Wed, 18 Feb 2004 18:39:21 -0500
Subject: Place group on all cards, after already duplicated
In-Reply-To: <9CDDEA0A-624F-11D8-B8ED-000393B64EDC@lumin.us>
References: <9CDDEA0A-624F-11D8-B8ED-000393B64EDC@lumin.us>
Message-ID: <AD82E3A0-626B-11D8-A675-000A959D005E@earthlink.net>

Is there a way to do this with a simple, non-grouped object?  I want to 
add an image to the same place on each card. I can do it  by making it 
a group of one (select image, then group selected) and then using the 
script suggested:

repeat with j = 1 to 10
   place group "this group" onto card j
end repeat

but I have not been able to do it for a simple image (or other object). 
  Is there a different command that I can use to place individual 
objects.

Marian

On Feb 18, 2004, at 3:18 PM, Christopher Mitchell wrote:

> Howdy,
>
> Just wondering if there is a way to place a group on all cards - if 
> you realized after you've already duplicated and individualized all 
> cards in a particular stack with an original, but deficient, set of 
> controls.  kind of like "oops I really should have put a "close" 
> button in this..
>
> Just off the top of my head, adding that extra control to the 
> originally duplicated group should do it, right?
>
> on the other hand, if you wanted it to be a separate group, one might 
> have to do something like (this is very mocked up)
>
> repeat with i = 1 to the number of cards
>   place group "foo"
> end repeat
>
> I don't particularly want to add it to the original control group, but 
> I don't want to edit each individual card either. the UI makes 
> accessing card elements and doing multicard edits or even multicard 
> deletions difficult unless you write a small script to do it.
>
> or maybe I just don't know what's going on!
>
> Yours,
> Chris
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>


From dsc at swcp.com  Wed Feb 18 18:56:18 2004
From: dsc at swcp.com (Dar Scott)
Date: Wed, 18 Feb 2004 16:56:18 -0700
Subject: Crypt API 
In-Reply-To: <20040218230811.EC8E119737D@xprdmailfe3.nwk.excite.com>
Message-ID: <0B3C5884-626E-11D8-82C7-000A9567A3E6@swcp.com>


On Wednesday, February 18, 2004, at 04:08 PM, Kevin wrote:

> Any one know a crypt API for Revolution looking for:
>
> SHA1 MD5 RC4
> Public-Private Key Encryption

MD5 is built-in.  RC4 is easy to code.

Some or all might be in a future release; Revolution developers are 
already making experimental versions as recently made public.

You can use shell() to use openSSL or gPG to do some or all.  Don't 
forget to burn your temporary files.

You can get at libraries with externals.

In very limited cases you might be able to use open process, but 
probably not.

Dar Scott




From dsc at swcp.com  Wed Feb 18 18:58:24 2004
From: dsc at swcp.com (Dar Scott)
Date: Wed, 18 Feb 2004 16:58:24 -0700
Subject: Place group on all cards, after already duplicated
In-Reply-To: <AD82E3A0-626B-11D8-A675-000A959D005E@earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <5654BD96-626E-11D8-82C7-000A9567A3E6@swcp.com>


On Wednesday, February 18, 2004, at 04:39 PM, Marian Petrides wrote:

> but I have not been able to do it for a simple image (or other object).

Only groups can be placed.  Put the image object into a group and place 
that.  Or put it into another group that is multiply placed.

Dar Scott


From erikhans08 at yahoo.com  Wed Feb 18 19:00:36 2004
From: erikhans08 at yahoo.com (Erik Hansen)
Date: Wed, 18 Feb 2004 16:00:36 -0800 (PST)
Subject: OT more Yahoo shenanigans
Message-ID: <20040219000036.32222.qmail@web61101.mail.yahoo.com>

i left all of the >>>>> for any who
missed the first post.

> I read the ditty on it and would also bring to
> everyone's attention that it is:
> 
> 1) also Yahoo's intention to put the things
> into HTML
> email. Check your email settings, too!
> 2) necessary to opt out from every
> browser/computer
> combination that you use. It isn't done on a
> user
> basis. What this actually means, I don't know,
> but if
> you have a dual boot system, use more than one
> login,
> use more than one computer, I think you get the
> idea.
> 
> That said, I don't know how this would fit in
> to any
> other privacy type software you may be using. I
> trust
> firewalls more than opting out...
> 
> --- haymandaniel <dan.hayman at direcway.com>
> wrote:
> > FYI, This came to my attention, if its
> redundant, my
> > apologies.
> > 
> > Yahoo is now using something called "Web
> Beacons" to
> > track
> > Yahoo Group users around the net and see what
> you're
> > doing
> > and where you are going - similar to cookies.
> Take a
> > look at their
> > updated privacy statement:
> > 
> >
>
http://privacy.yahoo.com/privacy/us/pixels/details.html
> > 
> > About half-way down the page, in the section
> > "Outside the Yahoo!
> > Network", you'll see a little "click here"
> link that
> > will let you
> > "opt-out" of their new method of snooping. I
> > strongly recommend
> > that you do this.
> > 
> > Once you have clicked that link, you are
> opted out.
> > Notice the
> > "Success" message the top the next page.
> > 
> > Be careful because on that page there is a
> "Cancel
> > Opt-out"
> > button that, if clicked, will *undo* the
> opt-out.
> > Feel free to 
> > forward
> > this to other groups.

=====
erik at erikhansen.org    http://www.erikhansen.org

__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Mail SpamGuard - Read only the mail you want.
http://antispam.yahoo.com/tools

From mpetrides at earthlink.net  Wed Feb 18 19:12:55 2004
From: mpetrides at earthlink.net (Marian Petrides)
Date: Wed, 18 Feb 2004 19:12:55 -0500
Subject: Place group on all cards, after already duplicated
In-Reply-To: <5654BD96-626E-11D8-82C7-000A9567A3E6@swcp.com>
References: <5654BD96-626E-11D8-82C7-000A9567A3E6@swcp.com>
Message-ID: <5DC30C5A-6270-11D8-A675-000A959D005E@earthlink.net>

 >>>>Put the image object into a group and place that.

Thanks, Dar. That's what I've been doing but I thought I might be 
missing something.

M
On Feb 18, 2004, at 6:58 PM, Dar Scott wrote:

>
> On Wednesday, February 18, 2004, at 04:39 PM, Marian Petrides wrote:
>
>> but I have not been able to do it for a simple image (or other 
>> object).
>
> Only groups can be placed.  Put the image object into a group and 
> place that.  Or put it into another group that is multiply placed.
>
> Dar Scott
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>


From erikhans08 at yahoo.com  Wed Feb 18 19:20:10 2004
From: erikhans08 at yahoo.com (Erik Hansen)
Date: Wed, 18 Feb 2004 16:20:10 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Using a field as a menu
In-Reply-To: <4033E82D.8090605@hyperactivesw.com>
Message-ID: <20040219002010.53138.qmail@web61108.mail.yahoo.com>


--- "J. Landman Gay" <jacque at hyperactivesw.com>
wrote:

> This is a good candidate for making a substack
> and popping it up with 
> the "popup" command. You can put anything you
> want in the first card of 
> the substack. Usually it is a bunch of buttons
> stacked in a column. I 
> haven't tried using anything else (like color
> fields,) but in theory it 
> should work. When you popup the substack, each
> line auto-hilites just 
> like a menu does. You don't have to do anything
> special to get the effect.

doesn't a column of buttons use a lot 
more memory than a single field?
maybe i am still thinking DOS-ly.

Erik Hansen

=====
erik at erikhansen.org    http://www.erikhansen.org

__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Mail SpamGuard - Read only the mail you want.
http://antispam.yahoo.com/tools

From erikhans08 at yahoo.com  Wed Feb 18 19:38:02 2004
From: erikhans08 at yahoo.com (Erik Hansen)
Date: Wed, 18 Feb 2004 16:38:02 -0800 (PST)
Subject: why not stay in Script Debug Mode at all times?
In-Reply-To: <BC5854EA.50D2%pixelbird@interisland.net>
Message-ID: <20040219003802.49853.qmail@web61110.mail.yahoo.com>


why not stay in Script Debug Mode
at all times?

thanks,

Erik Hansen

=====
erik at erikhansen.org    http://www.erikhansen.org

__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Mail SpamGuard - Read only the mail you want.
http://antispam.yahoo.com/tools

From pixelbird at interisland.net  Wed Feb 18 19:40:58 2004
From: pixelbird at interisland.net (Ken Norris)
Date: Wed, 18 Feb 2004 16:40:58 -0800
Subject: AudioClip scripting question
In-Reply-To: <20040218231140.E5390930184@mail.runrev.com>
Message-ID: <BC59461A.5118%pixelbird@interisland.net>

Howdy,

I wanted to get a dial tone to play continuously while the mouse is down.

on mouseDown
  play audioClip "one.au" looping
end mouseDown

on mouseUp
  play stop
end mouseUp

...sounds like a machine gun. How can I make it play smoothly/continuously?

Ken N.


From chrism at lumin.us  Wed Feb 18 20:40:11 2004
From: chrism at lumin.us (Christopher Mitchell)
Date: Wed, 18 Feb 2004 19:40:11 -0600
Subject: What is causing my missing taskbar (makes it necessary to
	ctrl-alt-del to close, can't tab back)
Message-ID: <8E5B5A71-627C-11D8-B8ED-000393B64EDC@lumin.us>

howdy,

If this is in the docs, just point me there, but the only thing I found 
about the windows taskbar was the command to hide and show it.

I've got an app for which the main stack is never revealed to the user. 
  It houses scripts and is the container for the substacks, but it is 
always hidden.  As soon as the application starts, it immediately opens 
up a palette with buttons to turn off and on other substack windows for 
different purposes.

Well this seems to be working pretty well, except under windows this 
seems to run as an invisible application - that is to say, it doesn't 
put the title/icon down in the taskbar and you cannot tab to it.  So, 
if you're using it and tab away from it, it disappears but is still in 
memory, thus the only way to close it down is to ctl-alt-del.

Under OSX, the icon shows up in the dock as well as in the command-tab 
list. Is there any way to make this show up as a non-invisible app 
under windows without revealing that main stack?  I really need to keep 
it hidden (and not just off screen somewhere :/)

Thanks,
Chris


From mwieder at ahsoftware.net  Wed Feb 18 21:41:04 2004
From: mwieder at ahsoftware.net (Mark Wieder)
Date: Wed, 18 Feb 2004 18:41:04 -0800
Subject: Transcript handling of OR and AND expressions
In-Reply-To: <01E606BC-6236-11D8-9EB8-0030656FB5D4@danshafer.com>
References: <7C9DD51D-4FF9-11D8-BEAE-000A95893982@earthlink.net>
 <176997033.20040126093023@ahsoftware.net>
 <01E606BC-6236-11D8-9EB8-0030656FB5D4@danshafer.com>
Message-ID: <19038789726.20040218184104@ahsoftware.net>

Dan-

Wednesday, February 18, 2004, 9:15:10 AM, you wrote:

DS> This is, relatively speaking at least, how all of the major programming
DS> languages work. There's even a name for it. I think it might be called
DS> something like "lazy" Boolean evaluation.

I suppose one *could* make the case that VB isn't a "major programming
language"...

DS> "Don't include expressions in Boolean logic statements if thos
DS> expressions have side effects. Rather, evaluate the expressions outside
DS> the Boolean logic statement."

...no argument from me on that one...

-- 
-Mark Wieder
 mwieder at ahsoftware.net


From chrism at lumin.us  Wed Feb 18 22:19:45 2004
From: chrism at lumin.us (Christopher Mitchell)
Date: Wed, 18 Feb 2004 21:19:45 -0600
Subject: What is causing my missing taskbar (makes it necessary to
	ctrl-alt-del to close, can't tab back)
In-Reply-To: <8E5B5A71-627C-11D8-B8ED-000393B64EDC@lumin.us>
References: <8E5B5A71-627C-11D8-B8ED-000393B64EDC@lumin.us>
Message-ID: <77A4ED32-628A-11D8-B8ED-000393B64EDC@lumin.us>

Ok, so it seems that palette windows do not create the taskbar item.  
Is there a way to force it to do so? I really want to have it just a 
menu... i guess I can do without it being in palette form.
Yours,
Chris
On Feb 18, 2004, at 7:40 PM, Christopher Mitchell wrote:

> howdy,
>
> If this is in the docs, just point me there, but the only thing I 
> found about the windows taskbar was the command to hide and show it.
>
> I've got an app for which the main stack is never revealed to the 
> user.  It houses scripts and is the container for the substacks, but 
> it is always hidden.  As soon as the application starts, it 
> immediately opens up a palette with buttons to turn off and on other 
> substack windows for different purposes.
>
> Well this seems to be working pretty well, except under windows this 
> seems to run as an invisible application - that is to say, it doesn't 
> put the title/icon down in the taskbar and you cannot tab to it.  So, 
> if you're using it and tab away from it, it disappears but is still in 
> memory, thus the only way to close it down is to ctl-alt-del.
>
> Under OSX, the icon shows up in the dock as well as in the command-tab 
> list. Is there any way to make this show up as a non-invisible app 
> under windows without revealing that main stack?  I really need to 
> keep it hidden (and not just off screen somewhere :/)
>
> Thanks,
> Chris
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>


From JimCarwardine at OwnYourFuture-net.com  Wed Feb 18 22:23:20 2004
From: JimCarwardine at OwnYourFuture-net.com (Jim Carwardine)
Date: Wed, 18 Feb 2004 23:23:20 -0400
Subject: Using a field as a menu
In-Reply-To: <4033E82D.8090605@hyperactivesw.com>
Message-ID: <BC59A467.54EB%JimCarwardine@OwnYourFuture-net.com>

I started with a substack but didn't know about the popup command.  I'll
give it a go.  Thanks... Jim

on 2/18/04 6:33 PM, J. Landman Gay wrote:

> On 2/18/04 2:17 PM, Jim Carwardine wrote:
> 
>> I want to create a button that pulls down a menu of colour choices similar
>> to what you might see in MS Word or Excel.  To do that, I've created a plain
>> button that, when the mouse is down I show a field with several buttons
>> displayed in front of it so the effect looks like a menu which the user then
>> drags the mouse over the button showing the colour they want and select it.
>> 
>> The behaviour I want is to show the focus border as they drag across a
>> colour button, then have the colour button accept the mouseUp and execute a
>> colour change several text fields.  It seems as as though the first button
>> keeps control of the mouse until the mouse button is released.  I seem to
>> recall someone mentioning something similar to this but I can't find any
>> references to it.  Has this been discussed or is there an easier way?  Jim
> 
> This is a good candidate for making a substack and popping it up with
> the "popup" command. You can put anything you want in the first card of
> the substack. Usually it is a bunch of buttons stacked in a column. I
> haven't tried using anything else (like color fields,) but in theory it
> should work. When you popup the substack, each line auto-hilites just
> like a menu does. You don't have to do anything special to get the effect.

-- 

OYF is... Highly resourceful people working together.
<http://www.OwnYourFuture-net.com>

Own Your Future Consulting Services Limited,
1959 Upper Water Street, Suite 407, Halifax, Nova Scotia. B3J 3N2
Info Line: 902-823-2477, Phone: 902-823-2339. Fax: 902-823-2139




From sarahr at genesearch.com.au  Wed Feb 18 22:34:06 2004
From: sarahr at genesearch.com.au (Sarah Reichelt)
Date: Thu, 19 Feb 2004 13:34:06 +1000
Subject: What is causing my missing taskbar (makes it necessary to
	ctrl-alt-del to close, can't tab back)
In-Reply-To: <77A4ED32-628A-11D8-B8ED-000393B64EDC@lumin.us>
References: <8E5B5A71-627C-11D8-B8ED-000393B64EDC@lumin.us>
	<77A4ED32-628A-11D8-B8ED-000393B64EDC@lumin.us>
Message-ID: <7894A47C-628C-11D8-BAB5-0003937A97B8@genesearch.com.au>

A modeless window is similar to a palette (not editable) but doesn't 
float like a palette. Would that work?

Sarah

On 19 Feb 2004, at 1:21 pm, Christopher Mitchell wrote:

> Ok, so it seems that palette windows do not create the taskbar item.  
> Is there a way to force it to do so? I really want to have it just a 
> menu... i guess I can do without it being in palette form.
> Yours,
> Chris


From alex at mindlube.com  Wed Feb 18 22:42:21 2004
From: alex at mindlube.com (Alex Rice)
Date: Wed, 18 Feb 2004 20:42:21 -0700
Subject: why not stay in Script Debug Mode at all times?
In-Reply-To: <20040219003802.49853.qmail@web61110.mail.yahoo.com>
References: <20040219003802.49853.qmail@web61110.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <9FCCE0FA-628D-11D8-B228-000393C4760A@mindlube.com>


On Feb 18, 2004, at 5:38 PM, Erik Hansen wrote:

>
> why not stay in Script Debug Mode
> at all times?

I guess that Script Debug Mode adds a level of complexity, and 
sometimes the debugger can get in the way if it's not behaving 100% 
correctly.

Another reason is that sometimes you might have many, many breakpoints 
set. You would not be able to run your stack at all without turning off 
those breakpoints. So in a sense, Script Debug Mode off = ignore all 
breakpoints. Which seems right.

--
Alex Rice | Mindlube Software | http://mindlube.com


From chrism at lumin.us  Wed Feb 18 22:48:37 2004
From: chrism at lumin.us (Christopher Mitchell)
Date: Wed, 18 Feb 2004 21:48:37 -0600
Subject: What is causing my missing taskbar (makes it necessary to
	ctrl-alt-del to close, can't tab back)
In-Reply-To: <7894A47C-628C-11D8-BAB5-0003937A97B8@genesearch.com.au>
References: <8E5B5A71-627C-11D8-B8ED-000393B64EDC@lumin.us>
	<77A4ED32-628A-11D8-B8ED-000393B64EDC@lumin.us>
	<7894A47C-628C-11D8-BAB5-0003937A97B8@genesearch.com.au>
Message-ID: <7FFC8F1B-628E-11D8-B8ED-000393B64EDC@lumin.us>

it might. i'm coming across a new problem that seems bizarre to me, 
i'll post it separately then see if this worked.
Yours,
Chris
On Feb 18, 2004, at 9:34 PM, Sarah Reichelt wrote:

> A modeless window is similar to a palette (not editable) but doesn't 
> float like a palette. Would that work?
>
> Sarah
>
> On 19 Feb 2004, at 1:21 pm, Christopher Mitchell wrote:
>
>> Ok, so it seems that palette windows do not create the taskbar item.  
>> Is there a way to force it to do so? I really want to have it just a 
>> menu... i guess I can do without it being in palette form.
>> Yours,
>> Chris
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>


From JimCarwardine at OwnYourFuture-net.com  Wed Feb 18 22:43:49 2004
From: JimCarwardine at OwnYourFuture-net.com (Jim Carwardine)
Date: Wed, 18 Feb 2004 23:43:49 -0400
Subject: Using a field as a menu
In-Reply-To: <4033E82D.8090605@hyperactivesw.com>
Message-ID: <BC59A935.54F2%JimCarwardine@OwnYourFuture-net.com>

This gives a contextual menu where the upper left of the popup stack is at
the position of the mouse click.  Also, the border of the menu is missing so
it blends in with the background of the card.  Is there a way to force the
upper left of the popup stack to be the lower left of the button that shows
it?  

How can I get a border around the popup stack and get the focus border to
show around the button in the popup stack?   Jim

on 2/18/04 6:33 PM, J. Landman Gay wrote:

> On 2/18/04 2:17 PM, Jim Carwardine wrote:
> 
>> I want to create a button that pulls down a menu of colour choices similar
>> to what you might see in MS Word or Excel.  To do that, I've created a plain
>> button that, when the mouse is down I show a field with several buttons
>> displayed in front of it so the effect looks like a menu which the user then
>> drags the mouse over the button showing the colour they want and select it.
>> 
>> The behaviour I want is to show the focus border as they drag across a
>> colour button, then have the colour button accept the mouseUp and execute a
>> colour change several text fields.  It seems as as though the first button
>> keeps control of the mouse until the mouse button is released.  I seem to
>> recall someone mentioning something similar to this but I can't find any
>> references to it.  Has this been discussed or is there an easier way?  Jim
> 
> This is a good candidate for making a substack and popping it up with
> the "popup" command. You can put anything you want in the first card of
> the substack. Usually it is a bunch of buttons stacked in a column. I
> haven't tried using anything else (like color fields,) but in theory it
> should work. When you popup the substack, each line auto-hilites just
> like a menu does. You don't have to do anything special to get the effect.

-- 

OYF is... Highly resourceful people working together.
<http://www.OwnYourFuture-net.com>

Own Your Future Consulting Services Limited,
1959 Upper Water Street, Suite 407, Halifax, Nova Scotia. B3J 3N2
Info Line: 902-823-2477, Phone: 902-823-2339. Fax: 902-823-2139




From chrism at lumin.us  Wed Feb 18 22:56:09 2004
From: chrism at lumin.us (Christopher Mitchell)
Date: Wed, 18 Feb 2004 21:56:09 -0600
Subject: closeStackRequest handling oddness - main stack keeps quitting out
Message-ID: <8D2D737D-628F-11D8-B8ED-000393B64EDC@lumin.us>

Hello, again...

I have three stacks - a "main" stack acting as a menu with buttons that 
should  be highlighted when that particular function is activated, and 
(currently only) 2 windows that pop up when my one button is activated. 
  they are supposed to be closed when that button is clicked again.

Well, strange things are happening now that I moved my menu toolbar 
onto my main stack, and there is some weird interaction in the realm of 
close stack handling.

This script is in the main stack, thus inherited all around:

on closeStackRequest
   answer "Quit program?" with "Yes" or "No"
   if it is "Yes" then pass closeStackRequest
end closeStackRequest

on closeStack
   quit
end closeStack

--
to make this behavior not happen in the other two stacks open, I have 
put this in each one (if there is a way to localize a handler to 
prevent inheritance, please let me know):

on closeStackRequest

end closeStackRequest

--

finally, I have this button script on the main stack which go's to and 
closes the two substacks, as well as toggles the highlight of the 
button itself and a custom property to keep tabs on its status:

on mouseUp
   if the selectStatus of me is "off" then
     set the selectStatus of me to "on"
     set the hilight of me to true
     set the defaultStack to "consonants"
     go stack "consonants"
     palette stack "controls"
   else
     set the selectStatus of me to "off"
     set the highlight of me to false
     close stack "consonants"
     close stack "controls"
     set the defaultStack to "main"
   end if
end mouseUp
--

Okay, this was all working well until I got rid of the SUBSTACK 
toolbar, which had previously been my visible main menu and handled the 
close request/program quitting. because it is a sibling, it did not 
mess with the other substacks.  Now, however, the main stack causes all 
the stacks to inherit this functionality, and even though they are 
blocked off with an empty pair of handlers to override the main 
function, everytime I click the button the second time (thus to "close" 
the other two stacks and turn off the highlighting) the whole thing 
closes WITHOUT going through the "Do you want to quit" handler!

I don't see why the main stack would be receiving a close stack message 
here, and certainly why, if it were receiving this message, my Yes or 
No handler would be over-ridden.

If anyone has time to instruct me in the errors of my ways here, I'd 
appreciate it as it is driving me batty.

Yours,
Chris


From chrism at lumin.us  Wed Feb 18 23:01:03 2004
From: chrism at lumin.us (Christopher Mitchell)
Date: Wed, 18 Feb 2004 22:01:03 -0600
Subject: closeStackRequest handling oddness - main stack keeps quitting
	out
In-Reply-To: <8D2D737D-628F-11D8-B8ED-000393B64EDC@lumin.us>
References: <8D2D737D-628F-11D8-B8ED-000393B64EDC@lumin.us>
Message-ID: <3C3E3AA2-6290-11D8-B8ED-000393B64EDC@lumin.us>

somehow these lines:

--    close stack "consonants"
--    close stack "controls"

in the button onMouseup handler, are making their way into the main 
stack and simultaneously bypassing the closestackrequest handler.  If I 
comment these lines, as such, the highlight toggles and the thing does 
not quit.  I do not see the logical message path here.

Yours,
Chris
On Feb 18, 2004, at 9:56 PM, Christopher Mitchell wrote:

> Hello, again...
>
> I have three stacks - a "main" stack acting as a menu with buttons 
> that should  be highlighted when that particular function is 
> activated, and (currently only) 2 windows that pop up when my one 
> button is activated.  they are supposed to be closed when that button 
> is clicked again.
>
> Well, strange things are happening now that I moved my menu toolbar 
> onto my main stack, and there is some weird interaction in the realm 
> of close stack handling.
>
> This script is in the main stack, thus inherited all around:
>
> on closeStackRequest
>   answer "Quit program?" with "Yes" or "No"
>   if it is "Yes" then pass closeStackRequest
> end closeStackRequest
>
> on closeStack
>   quit
> end closeStack
>
> --
> to make this behavior not happen in the other two stacks open, I have 
> put this in each one (if there is a way to localize a handler to 
> prevent inheritance, please let me know):
>
> on closeStackRequest
>
> end closeStackRequest
>
> --
>
> finally, I have this button script on the main stack which go's to and 
> closes the two substacks, as well as toggles the highlight of the 
> button itself and a custom property to keep tabs on its status:
>
> on mouseUp
>   if the selectStatus of me is "off" then
>     set the selectStatus of me to "on"
>     set the hilight of me to true
>     set the defaultStack to "consonants"
>     go stack "consonants"
>     palette stack "controls"
>   else
>     set the selectStatus of me to "off"
>     set the highlight of me to false
>     close stack "consonants"
>     close stack "controls"
>     set the defaultStack to "main"
>   end if
> end mouseUp
> --
>
> Okay, this was all working well until I got rid of the SUBSTACK 
> toolbar, which had previously been my visible main menu and handled 
> the close request/program quitting. because it is a sibling, it did 
> not mess with the other substacks.  Now, however, the main stack 
> causes all the stacks to inherit this functionality, and even though 
> they are blocked off with an empty pair of handlers to override the 
> main function, everytime I click the button the second time (thus to 
> "close" the other two stacks and turn off the highlighting) the whole 
> thing closes WITHOUT going through the "Do you want to quit" handler!
>
> I don't see why the main stack would be receiving a close stack 
> message here, and certainly why, if it were receiving this message, my 
> Yes or No handler would be over-ridden.
>
> If anyone has time to instruct me in the errors of my ways here, I'd 
> appreciate it as it is driving me batty.
>
> Yours,
> Chris
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>


From 3mcgrath at adelphia.net  Wed Feb 18 23:20:03 2004
From: 3mcgrath at adelphia.net (Thomas McGrath III)
Date: Wed, 18 Feb 2004 23:20:03 -0500
Subject: rev and languages
In-Reply-To: <4033B10F.9CC61791@Club-Internet.fr>
References: <20040218170017.D95069300B7@mail.runrev.com>
	<6DAB0786-623F-11D8-B166-000A95A0C562@sympatico.ca>
	<4033B10F.9CC61791@Club-Internet.fr>
Message-ID: <E3EB0372-6292-11D8-A57E-000A95DA60FA@adelphia.net>

I don't think you are over reacting at all.  JBV

What I want to know is:
Am I wasting my time learning Transcript?
Should I be looking elsewhere for a cross platform scripting app?

My big problem is I am reading other people's scripts (OPS) and trying 
to learn Hands On. But now it seems everyone is trying to make big 
changes in the way REV scripting is done. I can see being left out if I 
don't learn these other ways. And not being able to understand the 
shared scripts of others because they are using these.

I think it will divide us. Keep the message simple. If it's not broke, 
then don't 'fix' it.

This is the main reason I am uncomfortable with Director. Yes I own the 
Mac version of Director but don't use it that much. (it does have some 
benefits but for most all  things I would rather use REV)
I prefer a window/stack & card & object approach rather than a play 
movie and then loop at frame 21 and build an entire app in that frame.

I learn through dissection of OPS.

If I wanted to learn Java or something else I would not have bought REV.

Please don't go down this road. I don't think I will follow.........


Tom


On Feb 18, 2004, at 1:38 PM, jbv wrote:

>
>
> Charles Silverman a *crit :
>
>>     I think Rev's power is in letting people who aren't necessarily
>> engineering types do things that are labor-instensive or difficult to
>> do in other environments for anybody. Focusing on building support for
>> other language approaches might weaken the revolution (sorry, couldn't
>> resist) right now.
>
> I must admit that I agree with the above.
> IMHO, if one decides to modify Transcript to accomodate the dot
> syntax because many coders are used to it, the next decision might
> be to drop cross-platform compatibility because 85 to 90% of ppl
> on this planet work in a Windows environment...
>
> Yes, I'm a bit overreacting, but you see my point.
>
> Jb
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>
>

Thomas J. McGrath III
SCS
1000 Killarney Dr.
Pittsburgh, PA 15234
412-885-8541


From chrism at lumin.us  Wed Feb 18 23:30:26 2004
From: chrism at lumin.us (Christopher Mitchell)
Date: Wed, 18 Feb 2004 22:30:26 -0600
Subject: might have figured it out, could I get a verification on this
In-Reply-To: <3C3E3AA2-6290-11D8-B8ED-000393B64EDC@lumin.us>
References: <8D2D737D-628F-11D8-B8ED-000393B64EDC@lumin.us>
	<3C3E3AA2-6290-11D8-B8ED-000393B64EDC@lumin.us>
Message-ID: <57044E92-6294-11D8-B8ED-000393B64EDC@lumin.us>

It seems that, and I guess in a way it makes sense, if there is no 
over-riding handler in the children, the message path goes all the way 
up until it finds it, then it runs it in that location.

So I've over come this by putting a series of empty handlers in each of 
the substacks.  It seems like this could be easier if there was a way 
to specify that certain stacks in parents were not inherited... am I 
missing this?

Yours,
Chris
On Feb 18, 2004, at 10:01 PM, Christopher Mitchell wrote:

> somehow these lines:
>
> --    close stack "consonants"
> --    close stack "controls"
>
> in the button onMouseup handler, are making their way into the main 
> stack and simultaneously bypassing the closestackrequest handler.  If 
> I comment these lines, as such, the highlight toggles and the thing 
> does not quit.  I do not see the logical message path here.
>
> Yours,
> Chris
> On Feb 18, 2004, at 9:56 PM, Christopher Mitchell wrote:
>
>> Hello, again...
>>
>> I have three stacks - a "main" stack acting as a menu with buttons 
>> that should  be highlighted when that particular function is 
>> activated, and (currently only) 2 windows that pop up when my one 
>> button is activated.  they are supposed to be closed when that button 
>> is clicked again.
>>
>> Well, strange things are happening now that I moved my menu toolbar 
>> onto my main stack, and there is some weird interaction in the realm 
>> of close stack handling.
>>
>> This script is in the main stack, thus inherited all around:
>>
>> on closeStackRequest
>>   answer "Quit program?" with "Yes" or "No"
>>   if it is "Yes" then pass closeStackRequest
>> end closeStackRequest
>>
>> on closeStack
>>   quit
>> end closeStack
>>
>> --
>> to make this behavior not happen in the other two stacks open, I have 
>> put this in each one (if there is a way to localize a handler to 
>> prevent inheritance, please let me know):
>>
>> on closeStackRequest
>>
>> end closeStackRequest
>>
>> --
>>
>> finally, I have this button script on the main stack which go's to 
>> and closes the two substacks, as well as toggles the highlight of the 
>> button itself and a custom property to keep tabs on its status:
>>
>> on mouseUp
>>   if the selectStatus of me is "off" then
>>     set the selectStatus of me to "on"
>>     set the hilight of me to true
>>     set the defaultStack to "consonants"
>>     go stack "consonants"
>>     palette stack "controls"
>>   else
>>     set the selectStatus of me to "off"
>>     set the highlight of me to false
>>     close stack "consonants"
>>     close stack "controls"
>>     set the defaultStack to "main"
>>   end if
>> end mouseUp
>> --
>>
>> Okay, this was all working well until I got rid of the SUBSTACK 
>> toolbar, which had previously been my visible main menu and handled 
>> the close request/program quitting. because it is a sibling, it did 
>> not mess with the other substacks.  Now, however, the main stack 
>> causes all the stacks to inherit this functionality, and even though 
>> they are blocked off with an empty pair of handlers to override the 
>> main function, everytime I click the button the second time (thus to 
>> "close" the other two stacks and turn off the highlighting) the whole 
>> thing closes WITHOUT going through the "Do you want to quit" handler!
>>
>> I don't see why the main stack would be receiving a close stack 
>> message here, and certainly why, if it were receiving this message, 
>> my Yes or No handler would be over-ridden.
>>
>> If anyone has time to instruct me in the errors of my ways here, I'd 
>> appreciate it as it is driving me batty.
>>
>> Yours,
>> Chris
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> use-revolution mailing list
>> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>>
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>


From 3mcgrath at adelphia.net  Wed Feb 18 23:35:37 2004
From: 3mcgrath at adelphia.net (Thomas McGrath III)
Date: Wed, 18 Feb 2004 23:35:37 -0500
Subject: Place group on all cards, after already duplicated
In-Reply-To: <9CDDEA0A-624F-11D8-B8ED-000393B64EDC@lumin.us>
References: <9CDDEA0A-624F-11D8-B8ED-000393B64EDC@lumin.us>
Message-ID: <108D7585-6295-11D8-A57E-000A95DA60FA@adelphia.net>

If you already have a group on the cards you need a new item on you can 
edit the group and copy paste the control into it and it will show up 
where ever you have the group now. nice.

If you don't already have the group then you can place group via the 
menu item.

or like you said you can script it in.

Also you can delete the group from individual cards after scripting it 
to them all.

Why don't you want to add it to the original control group????


Tom

On Feb 18, 2004, at 3:18 PM, Christopher Mitchell wrote:

> Howdy,
>
> Just wondering if there is a way to place a group on all cards - if 
> you realized after you've already duplicated and individualized all 
> cards in a particular stack with an original, but deficient, set of 
> controls.  kind of like "oops I really should have put a "close" 
> button in this..
>
> Just off the top of my head, adding that extra control to the 
> originally duplicated group should do it, right?
>
> on the other hand, if you wanted it to be a separate group, one might 
> have to do something like (this is very mocked up)
>
> repeat with i = 1 to the number of cards
>   place group "foo"
> end repeat
>
> I don't particularly want to add it to the original control group, but 
> I don't want to edit each individual card either. the UI makes 
> accessing card elements and doing multicard edits or even multicard 
> deletions difficult unless you write a small script to do it.
>
> or maybe I just don't know what's going on!
>
> Yours,
> Chris
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>
>

Thomas J. McGrath III
SCS
1000 Killarney Dr.
Pittsburgh, PA 15234
412-885-8541


From 3mcgrath at adelphia.net  Wed Feb 18 23:40:09 2004
From: 3mcgrath at adelphia.net (Thomas McGrath III)
Date: Wed, 18 Feb 2004 23:40:09 -0500
Subject: Transparent Dialogs and Multiple Choice Tutorial
In-Reply-To: <4033D32F.7040509@hrz.uni-kassel.de>
References: <4033D32F.7040509@hrz.uni-kassel.de>
Message-ID: <B269C3FC-6295-11D8-A57E-000A95DA60FA@adelphia.net>

I want dates listed on the User Contributions section. I can't tell 
what's new and what's not new.


Thanks

TOm

On Feb 18, 2004, at 4:03 PM, Wilhelm Sanke wrote:

> "User contributions" have been updated, surely a sign that Heather 
> Williams has recovered that much to be able to lend a hand again. 
> Welcome back and best wishes for a complete recovery in the immediate 
> future!

Thomas J. McGrath III
SCS
1000 Killarney Dr.
Pittsburgh, PA 15234
412-885-8541


From chrism at lumin.us  Wed Feb 18 23:42:20 2004
From: chrism at lumin.us (Christopher Mitchell)
Date: Wed, 18 Feb 2004 22:42:20 -0600
Subject: What is causing my missing taskbar (makes it necessary to
	ctrl-alt-del to close, can't tab back)
In-Reply-To: <7894A47C-628C-11D8-BAB5-0003937A97B8@genesearch.com.au>
References: <8E5B5A71-627C-11D8-B8ED-000393B64EDC@lumin.us>
	<77A4ED32-628A-11D8-B8ED-000393B64EDC@lumin.us>
	<7894A47C-628C-11D8-BAB5-0003937A97B8@genesearch.com.au>
Message-ID: <00F1CFF5-6296-11D8-B8ED-000393B64EDC@lumin.us>

Neither the modeless nor the palette show up in the Windows taskbar.  
Really since neither of them work I'd choose the palette so it always 
remains "focused" looking.  I'm hoping there's a way to force this to 
show as a running program in the taskbar, but I guess I could just make 
it a regular window under Windows.

Yours,
Chris
On Feb 18, 2004, at 9:34 PM, Sarah Reichelt wrote:

> A modeless window is similar to a palette (not editable) but doesn't 
> float like a palette. Would that work?
>
> Sarah
>
> On 19 Feb 2004, at 1:21 pm, Christopher Mitchell wrote:
>
>> Ok, so it seems that palette windows do not create the taskbar item.  
>> Is there a way to force it to do so? I really want to have it just a 
>> menu... i guess I can do without it being in palette form.
>> Yours,
>> Chris
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>


From 3mcgrath at adelphia.net  Wed Feb 18 23:49:20 2004
From: 3mcgrath at adelphia.net (Thomas McGrath III)
Date: Wed, 18 Feb 2004 23:49:20 -0500
Subject: Place group on all cards, after already duplicated
In-Reply-To: <AD82E3A0-626B-11D8-A675-000A959D005E@earthlink.net>
References: <9CDDEA0A-624F-11D8-B8ED-000393B64EDC@lumin.us>
	<AD82E3A0-626B-11D8-A675-000A959D005E@earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <FB105768-6296-11D8-A57E-000A95DA60FA@adelphia.net>

Or you can do a non grouped object via:

copy object manually

then

repeat with j = 1 to 10
	go card j
	paste
end repeat

I do this sometimes

Tom

On Feb 18, 2004, at 6:39 PM, Marian Petrides wrote:

> Is there a way to do this with a simple, non-grouped object?  I want 
> to add an image to the same place on each card. I can do it  by making 
> it a group of one (select image, then group selected) and then using 
> the script suggested:
>
> repeat with j = 1 to 10
>   place group "this group" onto card j
> end repeat
>
> but I have not been able to do it for a simple image (or other 
> object).  Is there a different command that I can use to place 
> individual objects.
>
> Marian
>
> On Feb 18, 2004, at 3:18 PM, Christopher Mitchell wrote:
>
>> Howdy,
>>
>> Just wondering if there is a way to place a group on all cards - if 
>> you realized after you've already duplicated and individualized all 
>> cards in a particular stack with an original, but deficient, set of 
>> controls.  kind of like "oops I really should have put a "close" 
>> button in this..
>>
>> Just off the top of my head, adding that extra control to the 
>> originally duplicated group should do it, right?
>>
>> on the other hand, if you wanted it to be a separate group, one might 
>> have to do something like (this is very mocked up)
>>
>> repeat with i = 1 to the number of cards
>>   place group "foo"
>> end repeat
>>
>> I don't particularly want to add it to the original control group, 
>> but I don't want to edit each individual card either. the UI makes 
>> accessing card elements and doing multicard edits or even multicard 
>> deletions difficult unless you write a small script to do it.
>>
>> or maybe I just don't know what's going on!
>>
>> Yours,
>> Chris
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> use-revolution mailing list
>> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>>
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>
>

Thomas J. McGrath III
SCS
1000 Killarney Dr.
Pittsburgh, PA 15234
412-885-8541


From scott at tactilemedia.com  Wed Feb 18 23:49:52 2004
From: scott at tactilemedia.com (Scott Rossi)
Date: Wed, 18 Feb 2004 20:49:52 -0800
Subject: What is causing my missing taskbar (makes it necessary to
	ctrl-alt-del to close, can't tab back)
In-Reply-To: <00F1CFF5-6296-11D8-B8ED-000393B64EDC@lumin.us>
Message-ID: <BC598070.A3A9%scott@tactilemedia.com>

> Neither the modeless nor the palette show up in the Windows taskbar.
> Really since neither of them work I'd choose the palette so it always
> remains "focused" looking.  I'm hoping there's a way to force this to
> show as a running program in the taskbar, but I guess I could just make
> it a regular window under Windows.

Use a hidden topLevel window to display a name/icon in the taskbar, but keep
your palette window as the main region of interaction.

Regards,

Scott Rossi
Creative Director
Tactile Media, Development & Design
-----
E: scott at tactilemedia.com
W: http://www.tactilemedia.com


From 3mcgrath at adelphia.net  Wed Feb 18 23:53:31 2004
From: 3mcgrath at adelphia.net (Thomas McGrath III)
Date: Wed, 18 Feb 2004 23:53:31 -0500
Subject: AudioClip scripting question
In-Reply-To: <BC59461A.5118%pixelbird@interisland.net>
References: <BC59461A.5118%pixelbird@interisland.net>
Message-ID: <90F419CC-6297-11D8-A57E-000A95DA60FA@adelphia.net>

Ken,

on mouseDown
	repeat while the mouse is down
		play audioClip "one.au"
		wait 10 milliseconds -- or what ever seems to work best time wise
	end repeat
end mouseDown

NO mouseUp needed


Tom

On Feb 18, 2004, at 7:40 PM, Ken Norris wrote:

> Howdy,
>
> I wanted to get a dial tone to play continuously while the mouse is 
> down.
>
> on mouseDown
>   play audioClip "one.au" looping
> end mouseDown
>
> on mouseUp
>   play stop
> end mouseUp
>
> ...sounds like a machine gun. How can I make it play 
> smoothly/continuously?
>
> Ken N.
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>
>

Thomas J. McGrath III
SCS
1000 Killarney Dr.
Pittsburgh, PA 15234
412-885-8541


From alex at mindlube.com  Thu Feb 19 00:02:38 2004
From: alex at mindlube.com (Alex Rice)
Date: Wed, 18 Feb 2004 22:02:38 -0700
Subject: might have figured it out, could I get a verification on this
In-Reply-To: <57044E92-6294-11D8-B8ED-000393B64EDC@lumin.us>
References: <8D2D737D-628F-11D8-B8ED-000393B64EDC@lumin.us>
	<3C3E3AA2-6290-11D8-B8ED-000393B64EDC@lumin.us>
	<57044E92-6294-11D8-B8ED-000393B64EDC@lumin.us>
Message-ID: <D6CE1C24-6298-11D8-B228-000393C4760A@mindlube.com>


On Feb 18, 2004, at 9:30 PM, Christopher Mitchell wrote:

> It seems that, and I guess in a way it makes sense, if there is no 
> over-riding handler in the children, the message path goes all the way 
> up until it finds it, then it runs it in that location.
>
> So I've over come this by putting a series of empty handlers in each 
> of the substacks.  It seems like this could be easier if there was a 
> way to specify that certain stacks in parents were not inherited... am 
> I missing this?

The message path is just always there- you can't turn it off for any 
stacks.

It's perfectly acceptable to put an empty handler if you want to trap a 
message and not have it reach the mainstack or whatever parent control.

There is an idiom that can be used instead, and I like this better 
(learned on this list perhaps from Ken Ray). In a mainstack you can 
put:

on preOpenStack
   if the owner of the target is me then
     -- handle mainstack message
   else
     -- handle substack message
   end if
end preOpenStack

Similarly, for a library stack "start using", you want to check the 
target of the message:

on libraryStack
   if the target <> me then exit libraryStack
  ...
end libraryStack

Check out Dar's excellent Message Mechanics primer to learn more about 
the message path.
<http://www.swcp.com/~dsc/revstacks.html>


--
Alex Rice | Mindlube Software | http://mindlube.com


From chrism at lumin.us  Thu Feb 19 00:07:03 2004
From: chrism at lumin.us (Christopher Mitchell)
Date: Wed, 18 Feb 2004 23:07:03 -0600
Subject: What is causing my missing taskbar (makes it necessary to
	ctrl-alt-del to close, can't tab back)
In-Reply-To: <BC598070.A3A9%scott@tactilemedia.com>
References: <BC598070.A3A9%scott@tactilemedia.com>
Message-ID: <74F6DA80-6299-11D8-B8ED-000393B64EDC@lumin.us>

I've got a stack of name "invis" now being called from my mainstack 
preOpenStack handler, but it only shows up on the windows taskbar if 
there is actually a toplevel visible.  thanks for the suggestion.

Yours,
Chris
On Feb 18, 2004, at 10:49 PM, Scott Rossi wrote:

>> Neither the modeless nor the palette show up in the Windows taskbar.
>> Really since neither of them work I'd choose the palette so it always
>> remains "focused" looking.  I'm hoping there's a way to force this to
>> show as a running program in the taskbar, but I guess I could just 
>> make
>> it a regular window under Windows.
>
> Use a hidden topLevel window to display a name/icon in the taskbar, 
> but keep
> your palette window as the main region of interaction.
>
> Regards,
>
> Scott Rossi
> Creative Director
> Tactile Media, Development & Design
> -----
> E: scott at tactilemedia.com
> W: http://www.tactilemedia.com
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>


From 3mcgrath at adelphia.net  Thu Feb 19 00:08:38 2004
From: 3mcgrath at adelphia.net (Thomas McGrath III)
Date: Thu, 19 Feb 2004 00:08:38 -0500
Subject: AudioClip scripting question
In-Reply-To: <90F419CC-6297-11D8-A57E-000A95DA60FA@adelphia.net>
References: <BC59461A.5118%pixelbird@interisland.net>
	<90F419CC-6297-11D8-A57E-000A95DA60FA@adelphia.net>
Message-ID: <AD2AB374-6299-11D8-A57E-000A95DA60FA@adelphia.net>

Ken,

also

Docs: The period between mouseStillDown messages is specified by the 
idleRate and idleTicks properties. The idleRate is an integer between 
zero and 65535. By default, the idleRate property is set to 200 
(one-fifth of a second). This property is very similar to the idleTicks 
property, and changes when the idleTicks changes. The only difference 
is that the two properties are given in different time units:  the 
idleRate is in milliseconds and the idleTicks is in ticks.


you can set the idleRate and or idleTicks for quicker or slower

on mouseStillDown
	set the idleRate to 75-- (Play with this awhile, I didn't so I don't 
know the right times to use)
	play audioClip "one.au"
end mouseStillDown

I do notice some inconsistent behavior in these messages being sent but 
it might still be a better way.

Tom


On Feb 18, 2004, at 11:53 PM, Thomas McGrath III wrote:

> Ken,
>
> on mouseDown
> 	repeat while the mouse is down
> 		play audioClip "one.au"
> 		wait 10 milliseconds -- or what ever seems to work best time wise
> 	end repeat
> end mouseDown
>
> NO mouseUp needed
>
>
> Tom
>
> On Feb 18, 2004, at 7:40 PM, Ken Norris wrote:
>
>> Howdy,
>>
>> I wanted to get a dial tone to play continuously while the mouse is 
>> down.
>>
>> on mouseDown
>>   play audioClip "one.au" looping
>> end mouseDown
>>
>> on mouseUp
>>   play stop
>> end mouseUp
>>
>> ...sounds like a machine gun. How can I make it play 
>> smoothly/continuously?
>>
>> Ken N.
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> use-revolution mailing list
>> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>>
>>
>
> Thomas J. McGrath III
> SCS
> 1000 Killarney Dr.
> Pittsburgh, PA 15234
> 412-885-8541
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>
>

Thomas J. McGrath III
SCS
1000 Killarney Dr.
Pittsburgh, PA 15234
412-885-8541


From hershbp at realtorsgroup.us  Thu Feb 19 00:09:53 2004
From: hershbp at realtorsgroup.us (hershrev)
Date: Thu, 19 Feb 2004 00:09:53 -0500
Subject: control scructure repeat and next line
In-Reply-To: <95A95C7C-61B5-11D8-A662-0003937A97B8@genesearch.com.au>
Message-ID: <D9E95609-6299-11D8-9F90-0030654C1E62@realtorsgroup.us>

I got it , Thanks.
On Tuesday, February 17, 2004, at 08:55 PM, Sarah Reichelt wrote:


From francois.cuneo at cuk.ch  Thu Feb 19 00:14:22 2004
From: francois.cuneo at cuk.ch (Fran=?ISO-8859-1?B?5w==?=ois Cuneo)
Date: Thu, 19 Feb 2004 06:14:22 +0100
Subject: Fixed-time timers problem-help!
In-Reply-To: <9CEA235E-6263-11D8-9704-000A27B49A96@major-k.de>
Message-ID: <BC5A04BE.113EA%francois.cuneo@cuk.ch>

Le 18.2.2004 23:41, Klaus Major ? klaus at major-k.de a ?crit:
Hello Klaus!

Thank you very much for your help, I'll try it.

Friendly!
> Bonsoir Fran?ois,
> 
>> Le 10.5.2003 22:27, Bryan McCormick ? bryan at deepfoo.com a ?crit:
>> 
>> Hello every body!
>> 
>> I want to start in a field "timer" with 0:00:10
>> 
>> I click on a button that is "Start Timer"
>> The button change his label as "Stop Timer"
>> 
>> Two seconds after the first clic, I clic again on the button.
>> 
>> I want of course that the field shows "0:00:08"
>> 
>> Is it difficult to do that? With HyperCard and supercard, I was able
>> to do
>> that but with Revolution?
>> 
>> Thank you!
> 
> You can use this li'l function to convert your secs to SMPTE (Lite :-)
> 
> function smpte_lite dauer1
>  set the numberformat to xx
>  put dauer1 div 60 into minu
>  put dauer1 mod 60 into seku
>  return "00" & ":" & minu & ":" & seku
> end smpte_lite
> 
> Use it this way:
> 
> ...
>   put smpte_lite(the secs - the_startsecs) into fld "timer"
> ...
> 
> Hope that helps
> 
>> Amicalement
>> Fran?ois
> 
> Regards
> 
> Klaus Major
> klaus at major-k.de
> www.major-k.de
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
> 
> 


Amicalement
Fran?ois
--------------------------------------------------------------------------

Fran?ois Cuneo
Au Champ du Pr?
1353 Bofflens

e-mail: mailto:francois.cuneo at cuk.ch

Web Cuk New Technologies, programmes ?ducatifs pour Mac: http://www.cuk.ch
Web CUK, humeurs et tests sur le mac: http://www.cuk.ch/articles

T?l: ++41 (024) 441.17.81
Fax: ++41 (024) 441.17.05




From chrism at lumin.us  Thu Feb 19 00:15:46 2004
From: chrism at lumin.us (Christopher Mitchell)
Date: Wed, 18 Feb 2004 23:15:46 -0600
Subject: might have figured it out, could I get a verification on this
In-Reply-To: <D6CE1C24-6298-11D8-B228-000393C4760A@mindlube.com>
References: <8D2D737D-628F-11D8-B8ED-000393B64EDC@lumin.us>
	<3C3E3AA2-6290-11D8-B8ED-000393B64EDC@lumin.us>
	<57044E92-6294-11D8-B8ED-000393B64EDC@lumin.us>
	<D6CE1C24-6298-11D8-B228-000393C4760A@mindlube.com>
Message-ID: <AC66EC80-629A-11D8-B8ED-000393B64EDC@lumin.us>

Alex,

That if-then idiom looks like exactly what I was looking for.  It 
should essentially cut off inheritance.  I'll give it a shot tomorrow,  
but I think I'm done for the evening.  Thanks very much.

Yours,
Chris
On Feb 18, 2004, at 11:02 PM, Alex Rice wrote:

>
> On Feb 18, 2004, at 9:30 PM, Christopher Mitchell wrote:
>
>> It seems that, and I guess in a way it makes sense, if there is no 
>> over-riding handler in the children, the message path goes all the 
>> way up until it finds it, then it runs it in that location.
>>
>> So I've over come this by putting a series of empty handlers in each 
>> of the substacks.  It seems like this could be easier if there was a 
>> way to specify that certain stacks in parents were not inherited... 
>> am I missing this?
>
> The message path is just always there- you can't turn it off for any 
> stacks.
>
> It's perfectly acceptable to put an empty handler if you want to trap 
> a message and not have it reach the mainstack or whatever parent 
> control.
>
> There is an idiom that can be used instead, and I like this better 
> (learned on this list perhaps from Ken Ray). In a mainstack you can 
> put:
>
> on preOpenStack
>   if the owner of the target is me then
>     -- handle mainstack message
>   else
>     -- handle substack message
>   end if
> end preOpenStack
>
> Similarly, for a library stack "start using", you want to check the 
> target of the message:
>
> on libraryStack
>   if the target <> me then exit libraryStack
>  ...
> end libraryStack
>
> Check out Dar's excellent Message Mechanics primer to learn more about 
> the message path.
> <http://www.swcp.com/~dsc/revstacks.html>
>
>
> --
> Alex Rice | Mindlube Software | http://mindlube.com
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>


From alex at mindlube.com  Thu Feb 19 00:28:09 2004
From: alex at mindlube.com (Alex Rice)
Date: Wed, 18 Feb 2004 22:28:09 -0700
Subject: might have figured it out, could I get a verification on this
In-Reply-To: <AC66EC80-629A-11D8-B8ED-000393B64EDC@lumin.us>
References: <8D2D737D-628F-11D8-B8ED-000393B64EDC@lumin.us>
	<3C3E3AA2-6290-11D8-B8ED-000393B64EDC@lumin.us>
	<57044E92-6294-11D8-B8ED-000393B64EDC@lumin.us>
	<D6CE1C24-6298-11D8-B228-000393C4760A@mindlube.com>
	<AC66EC80-629A-11D8-B8ED-000393B64EDC@lumin.us>
Message-ID: <677A745C-629C-11D8-B228-000393C4760A@mindlube.com>


On Feb 18, 2004, at 10:15 PM, Christopher Mitchell wrote:

> That if-then idiom looks like exactly what I was looking for.  It 
> should essentially cut off inheritance.

Another way to cut off inheritance is with "front scripts". Using a 
front script you can intercept messages before any other control or 
library can receive them.

>  I'll give it a shot tomorrow,  but I think I'm done for the evening.  
> Thanks very much.

Glad to help. I think it's kind of a tricky one, but very useful. The 
preOpenStack message is a _card_ message not a stack message. That's 
why it checks "the owner of the target is me".

>> on preOpenStack
>>   if the owner of the target is me then
>>     -- handle mainstack message
>>   else
>>     -- handle substack message
>>   end if
>> end preOpenStack

--
Alex Rice | Mindlube Software | http://mindlube.com


From lists at mangomultimedia.com  Thu Feb 19 00:28:47 2004
From: lists at mangomultimedia.com (Trevor DeVore)
Date: Wed, 18 Feb 2004 22:28:47 -0700
Subject: Transcript and/or ECMA - guess who started it?
In-Reply-To: <NEBBICMMKLOIPMPOLALAKEDMGCAA.jiml@netrin.com>
References: <NEBBICMMKLOIPMPOLALAKEDMGCAA.jiml@netrin.com>
Message-ID: <7DDA1030-629C-11D8-AF2C-00039384A130@mangomultimedia.com>

On Feb 18, 2004, at 3:56 PM, Jim Lambert wrote:

> <by allowing the world's most popular scripting language
> as a switchable option some folks might jump on board more quickly>
>
> Tha latest version of Director has now added support for Javascript. 
> The
> main reason given is exactly that - the hope that more programmers 
> will come
> into the Director fold. It remains to be seen if this will happen. 
> Perhaps
> RuntimeRev should just wait to see what success Macromedia has in 
> trying to
> woo Javascripters.

I haven't followed Director for a while but it seems that this move 
means they will get more of their Flash developers playing with 
Director.  I think in the latest version they also improved Flash 
integration/performance quite a bit.

Trevor DeVore
Blue Mango Multimedia
trevor at mangomultimedia.com


From chrism at lumin.us  Thu Feb 19 00:33:05 2004
From: chrism at lumin.us (Christopher Mitchell)
Date: Wed, 18 Feb 2004 23:33:05 -0600
Subject: Place group on all cards, after already duplicated
In-Reply-To: <108D7585-6295-11D8-A57E-000A95DA60FA@adelphia.net>
References: <9CDDEA0A-624F-11D8-B8ED-000393B64EDC@lumin.us>
	<108D7585-6295-11D8-A57E-000A95DA60FA@adelphia.net>
Message-ID: <17BDE6F6-629D-11D8-B8ED-000393B64EDC@lumin.us>

There is always the possibility that, although the cards are basically 
identical, one would want to not have that control on  every one.  It 
looks like the best way for the special case cards is just to place it 
by hand, or place it onto all marked cards.

I'm not just pulling this out of the air, I have a specific special 
case where that would be the case in mind :)

Yours,
Chris
On Feb 18, 2004, at 10:35 PM, Thomas McGrath III wrote:
>
> Why don't you want to add it to the original control group????


From pixelbird at interisland.net  Thu Feb 19 00:54:10 2004
From: pixelbird at interisland.net (Ken Norris)
Date: Wed, 18 Feb 2004 21:54:10 -0800
Subject: rev and languages
In-Reply-To: <20040219043112.BD52F9301AC@mail.runrev.com>
Message-ID: <BC598F82.511F%pixelbird@interisland.net>

Hi Tom,

> Date: Wed, 18 Feb 2004 23:20:03 -0500
> From: Thomas McGrath III <3mcgrath at adelphia.net>
> Subject: Re: rev and languages

> If I wanted to learn Java or something else I would not have bought REV.
> 
> Please don't go down this road. I don't think I will follow.........
------------
I don't think the posts I've read are headed towards JAVA scripting as a
replacement for Transcript. At least I hope not. It would make no sense.
It's a cryptic, slow coding, caterpillar-like language by comparison to
Transcript. It only became popular because of promotion on the web among
Windows users who didn't have a clue about xTalk scripting languages at the
time. I watched it happen, tried to tell a few people, and finally just
shook my head and ran away into HyperCard.

But, offering a *few options* borrowed from earlier languages which seem
just as natural (x = 12) as Transcript and could actually make it more
efficient might be OK.

OTOH, if it starts looking and coding like Javascript, I'd consider that a
step backward and be outahere too.

Ken N.



From ops at myesa.com  Thu Feb 19 01:54:58 2004
From: ops at myesa.com (Ops)
Date: Thu, 19 Feb 2004 00:54:58 -0600
Subject: rev and languages
In-Reply-To: <BC598F82.511F%pixelbird@interisland.net>
References: <BC598F82.511F%pixelbird@interisland.net>
Message-ID: <40345DC2.2080109@myesa.com>


>>If I wanted to learn Java or something else I would not have bought REV.
>>
>>Please don't go down this road. I don't think I will follow.........
> 
> ------------
> I don't think the posts I've read are headed towards JAVA scripting as a
> replacement for Transcript. At least I hope not. It would make no sense.
> It's a cryptic, slow coding, caterpillar-like language by comparison to
> Transcript. It only became popular because of promotion on the web among
> Windows users who didn't have a clue about xTalk scripting languages at the
> time. I watched it happen, tried to tell a few people, and finally just
> shook my head and ran away into HyperCard.
> 
> But, offering a *few options* borrowed from earlier languages which seem
> just as natural (x = 12) as Transcript and could actually make it more
> efficient might be OK.
> 
> OTOH, if it starts looking and coding like Javascript, I'd consider that a
> step backward and be outahere too.
> 
> Ken N.

I say to heck with x = 12 and such.  I'm sure the other environments 
mentioned have the staff and resources available to program away their 
identities.  IMHO, this community should not encourage the Rev folks to 
meander from the product core and visions of it's future.  It was not 
"mainstream" thinking that created such a unique and productive 
environment.  Keeping a "thinking outside the box" mentality combined 
with a focused effort by the Rev staff is the recipe for long term 
success.  Losing focus on the aforementioned in an effort to achieve 
short term gain will not serve us well in the long haul.

Just one programmers .02

put thispost02 + lastposts02 into longtermgain

I'll take the "4" in that manner over "longtermgain = 4" any day :)

Ops

From pixelbird at interisland.net  Thu Feb 19 02:15:30 2004
From: pixelbird at interisland.net (Ken Norris)
Date: Wed, 18 Feb 2004 23:15:30 -0800
Subject: AudioClip scripting question
In-Reply-To: <20040219051455.65E519301E7@mail.runrev.com>
Message-ID: <BC59A292.5121%pixelbird@interisland.net>

Hi Thomas,

> Date: Wed, 18 Feb 2004 23:53:31 -0500
> From: Thomas McGrath III <3mcgrath at adelphia.net>
> Subject: Re: AudioClip scripting question

> on mouseDown
> repeat while the mouse is down
> play audioClip "one.au"
> wait 10 milliseconds -- or what ever seems to work best time wise
> end repeat
> end mouseDown

> NO mouseUp needed
-----------
Nope...worse. This particular handler will:

1) Cause a slew of repeated sounds in a hurry which will not stop when you
release, it will play one last full length clip (.1 sec). Needs a 'play
stop' after 'end repeat'.

2) Actually cause a break between sounds, although you have to have some
kind of break in an actual loop which deals with sound, otherwise it never
really gets a chance to get going. I wonder if there's a way to buffer it
before mouseDown.

3) Cause it to sound like data transfer (really fast machine gun).

4) Hogs the processor during the loop.

Using a separate handler (subroutine) with a 'send in time' (to itself)
structure with a kill global in the message of the mouseUp handler, won't
affect the proceesor nearly as much. Much more efficient.

But that won't help the sound problem at all :-/

Ken N.


From pixelbird at interisland.net  Thu Feb 19 02:47:04 2004
From: pixelbird at interisland.net (Ken Norris)
Date: Wed, 18 Feb 2004 23:47:04 -0800
Subject: AudioClip scripting question
In-Reply-To: <20040219051455.65E519301E7@mail.runrev.com>
Message-ID: <BC59A9F8.5122%pixelbird@interisland.net>

Back again,

> Date: Thu, 19 Feb 2004 00:08:38 -0500
> From: Thomas McGrath III <3mcgrath at adelphia.net>
> Subject: Re: AudioClip scripting question

> you can set the idleRate and or idleTicks for quicker or slower
> 
> on mouseStillDown
> set the idleRate to 75-- (Play with this awhile, I didn't so I don't
> know the right times to use)
> play audioClip "one.au"
> end mouseStillDown
> 
> I do notice some inconsistent behavior in these messages being sent but
> it might still be a better way.
-----------
Still just makes it go faster, doesn't cure the staccato chatter.

NOTE: It would be nice if it could do what SC does in a 'play forever'
command, but it's a Mac thing (only works with a data fork .snd resource,
not files).

I can live with a .1 sec sound...it'll dial OK even if it doesn't exactly
simulate a real telephone keypad.

Ken N.


From scott at tactilemedia.com  Thu Feb 19 03:19:08 2004
From: scott at tactilemedia.com (Scott Rossi)
Date: Thu, 19 Feb 2004 00:19:08 -0800
Subject: What is causing my missing taskbar (makes it necessary to
	ctrl-alt-del to close, can't tab back)
In-Reply-To: <74F6DA80-6299-11D8-B8ED-000393B64EDC@lumin.us>
Message-ID: <BC59B17C.A3C3%scott@tactilemedia.com>

On 2/18/04 9:07 PM, "Christopher Mitchell" <chrism at lumin.us> wrote:

>>> Neither the modeless nor the palette show up in the Windows taskbar.
>>> Really since neither of them work I'd choose the palette so it always
>>> remains "focused" looking.  I'm hoping there's a way to force this to
>>> show as a running program in the taskbar, but I guess I could just
>>> make
>>> it a regular window under Windows.
>> 
>> Use a hidden topLevel window to display a name/icon in the taskbar,
>> but keep
>> your palette window as the main region of interaction.
>
> I've got a stack of name "invis" now being called from my mainstack
> preOpenStack handler, but it only shows up on the windows taskbar if
> there is actually a toplevel visible.

Yes, but you can "hide" the topLevel stack by keeping it visible and
positioning it offscreen.

Regards,

Scott Rossi
Creative Director
Tactile Media, Development & Design
-----
E: scott at tactilemedia.com
W: http://www.tactilemedia.com


From jbv.silences at Club-Internet.fr  Thu Feb 19 03:22:51 2004
From: jbv.silences at Club-Internet.fr (jbv)
Date: Thu, 19 Feb 2004 09:22:51 +0100
Subject: rev and languages
References: <BC598F82.511F%pixelbird@interisland.net>
	<40345DC2.2080109@myesa.com>
Message-ID: <40347258.23DBE901@Club-Internet.fr>

>
> > But, offering a *few options* borrowed from earlier languages which seem
> > just as natural (x = 12) as Transcript and could actually make it more
> > efficient might be OK.
> >

As a former teacher of programming for kids who were 9 or 10,
I noticed that one of the first and biggest difficulties they were
facing (while learning the basic concepts) was the difference between
a variable and its content.
IMHO a line of code such as "put 12 into x" has the HUGE advantage
to make things clear from the beginning, while "x = 12" has a more
mathematical feeling and doesn't really introduce the concept clearly.

Besides the Transcript syntax has also the advantage of allowing
beginners to understand code written by experienced prog. and to be
able to taylor that code to their needs in much less time than Java or C.
Don't know exactly how much it blurs the border between beginners
& experienced prog. but at least it contributes to make both feel closer
to each other than any other language...

JB


From ambassador at fourthworld.com  Thu Feb 19 03:37:21 2004
From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin)
Date: Thu, 19 Feb 2004 00:37:21 -0800
Subject: rev and languages
In-Reply-To: <40347258.23DBE901@Club-Internet.fr>
Message-ID: <BC59B5C1.3DAD5%ambassador@fourthworld.com>

This discussion of language design prompted me to Google for "HyperTalk and
BNF".  Not surprisingly the first hit is Jeanne's Appendix D from "HyperTalk
2.2: The Book": 

<http://www.jaedworks.com/hypercard/scripts/hypertalk-bnf.html>

I found it thought-provoking to read such an abstract high-level desription
of the mother tongue.

-- 
 Richard Gaskin 
 Fourth World Media Corporation
 ___________________________________________________________
 Ambassador at FourthWorld.com       http://www.FourthWorld.com


From jperryl at ecs.fullerton.edu  Thu Feb 19 03:45:10 2004
From: jperryl at ecs.fullerton.edu (Judy Perry)
Date: Thu, 19 Feb 2004 00:45:10 -0800 (PST)
Subject: rev and languages
In-Reply-To: <E3EB0372-6292-11D8-A57E-000A95DA60FA@adelphia.net>
Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.4.33.0402190044260.18378-100000@titan.ecs.fullerton.edu>

Amen!

Judy

On Wed, 18 Feb 2004, Thomas McGrath III wrote:

> I think it will divide us. Keep the message simple. If it's not broke,
> then don't 'fix' it.
>
> This is the main reason I am uncomfortable with Director. Yes I own the
> Mac version of Director but don't use it that much. (it does have some
> benefits but for most all  things I would rather use REV)


From dcragg at lacscentre.co.uk  Thu Feb 19 03:57:57 2004
From: dcragg at lacscentre.co.uk (Dave Cragg)
Date: Thu, 19 Feb 2004 08:57:57 +0000
Subject: Transcript and/or ECMA - guess who started it?
In-Reply-To: <6A20EA83-6245-11D8-82C7-000A9567A3E6@swcp.com>
References: <6A20EA83-6245-11D8-82C7-000A9567A3E6@swcp.com>
Message-ID: <p06020419bc5a254c66db@[192.168.123.7]>

At 12:05 pm -0700 18/2/04, Dar Scott wrote:
>On Wednesday, February 18, 2004, at 11:24 AM, jbv wrote:

>One might need so support javascript in loaded web pages.  That
>person will either need to build javascript with Transcript or use
>some other method.  If it is available among 'do' languages that
>person might exploit it.

One practical use of having Javascript available among "do" languages 
would be the ability to parse those proxy.pac scripts that are used 
for automatic proxy configuration. I don't know if there are other 
areas where javascript is used as a standard for implementing 
services (aside from html pages), but if it's use becomes more 
widespread, priorities  will probably change.

If the "do" languages were to be expanded beyond AppleScript, I think 
Javascript should be high on the list of priorities. But this kind of 
support is different from using Javascript as an alternative to 
Transcript. I don't see any great need for that.

Dave

From nnoydb at excite.com  Thu Feb 19 05:30:40 2004
From: nnoydb at excite.com (Kevin)
Date: Thu, 19 Feb 2004 05:30:40 -0500 (EST)
Subject: Variable arguements
Message-ID: <20040219103040.345FE299D6@xprdmailfe21.nwk.excite.com>


What constructs are available in RunRev to handle variable arguements.  Like "..." in c++?

Kevin


_______________________________________________
Join Excite! - http://www.excite.com
The most personalized portal on the Web!

From mcdomi at free.fr  Thu Feb 19 05:36:33 2004
From: mcdomi at free.fr (Dom)
Date: Thu, 19 Feb 2004 11:36:33 +0100
Subject: rev and languages
In-Reply-To: <BC598F82.511F%pixelbird@interisland.net>
Message-ID: <1g9eai6.oy3esp1l9osxcM%mcdomi@free.fr>

Ken Norris <pixelbird at interisland.net> wrote:

> But, offering a *few options* borrowed from earlier languages which seem
> just as natural (x = 12) as Transcript and could actually make it more
> efficient might be OK.

let x = x + 1

Eeeeer, isn't RealBASIC?

;->

-- 
Vous parlez fran?ais ? faites un tour sur le groupe francophone !
revolutionfr-subscribe at yahoogroupes.fr
Jetez un oeil sur RevoBlog <http://revoblog.free.fr> !

From nnoydb at excite.com  Thu Feb 19 05:37:11 2004
From: nnoydb at excite.com (Kevin)
Date: Thu, 19 Feb 2004 05:37:11 -0500 (EST)
Subject: Variable arguements
Message-ID: <20040219103711.BF4E2299D6@xprdmailfe21.nwk.excite.com>


Please ignore I found it. Just looking in wrong place. 


--- On Thu 02/19, Kevin < nnoydb at excite.com > wrote:
From: Kevin [mailto: nnoydb at excite.com]
To: use-revolution at runrev.com
Date: Thu, 19 Feb 2004 05:30:40 -0500 (EST)
Subject: Variable arguements

<br>What constructs are available in RunRev to handle variable arguements.  Like &quot;...&quot; in c++?<br><br>Kevin<br><br><br>_______________________________________________<br>Join Excite! - http://www.excite.com<br>The most personalized portal on the Web!<br>_______________________________________________<br>use-revolution mailing list<br>use-revolution at lists.runrev.com<br>http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution<br>

_______________________________________________
Join Excite! - http://www.excite.com
The most personalized portal on the Web!

From nnoydb at excite.com  Thu Feb 19 06:17:18 2004
From: nnoydb at excite.com (Kevin)
Date: Thu, 19 Feb 2004 06:17:18 -0500 (EST)
Subject: Message Path 
Message-ID: <20040219111718.77D0119735E@xprdmailfe3.nwk.excite.com>


I would like to print the "message path"/"return stack" of the current function.  Where would I find the message path that got me to a particular function so I might do this? 


kevin


_______________________________________________
Join Excite! - http://www.excite.com
The most personalized portal on the Web!

From heather at runrev.com  Thu Feb 19 06:35:40 2004
From: heather at runrev.com (Heather Nagey)
Date: Thu, 19 Feb 2004 11:35:40 +0000
Subject: Yes, I'm back
In-Reply-To: <20040218212109.7BF6B930158@mail.runrev.com>
Message-ID: <BC5A500C.2198B%heather@runrev.com>

> "User contributions" have been updated, surely a sign that Heather
> Williams has recovered that much to be able to lend a hand again.
> Welcome back and best wishes for a complete recovery in the immediate
> future!

Thank you :)

Thanks also to all the people who sent goodwill messages, I really
appreciate them.

Most of all, a huge vote of thanks to Jacque and to Graham Samuels, who
voluntarily pitched in and took over the fearsome support workload while I
was unwell.

As most of you are probably already aware, a great new centralized support
system has been devised while I was away, this should mean an end to
unacceptable delays in response times when one or other staff member is out
of action for whatever reason. Support email on virtually all subjects
should now be sent to support at runrev.com, where it will be sorted into the
appropriate queue and the best person to answer it can pick it out and
respond in a timely manner. This is such a wondrous improvement, I think I
should get sick more often!

Anyway, greetings one and all, its great to be back and watching the lists
once more,

Heather
(checking the list admin hat still fits... Yep, a bit dusty but undented...)
-- 
Heather Nagey ~ heather at runrev.com ~ http://www.runrev.com/
Runtime Revolution - User-Centric Development Tools
Tel +44 (0) 131 7184333 Fax +44 (0) 845 4588487
~~~ Check our web site for new Revolution editions & special offers ~~~


From heather at runrev.com  Thu Feb 19 06:38:00 2004
From: heather at runrev.com (Heather Nagey)
Date: Thu, 19 Feb 2004 11:38:00 +0000
Subject: Transparent Dialogs and Multiple Choice Tutorial
In-Reply-To: <20040219051455.82BE79301E8@mail.runrev.com>
Message-ID: <BC5A5098.2198C%heather@runrev.com>

> I want dates listed on the User Contributions section. I can't tell
> what's new and what's not new.

A simple and obvious improvement. I'll start adding dates to the listings
from now, but unfortunately I can't "back date" the existing listings since
I also have no idea how old they are. However, they are always added from
the top, so the further down the list the older the contribution.

Regards,

Heather

-- 
Heather Nagey ~ heather at runrev.com ~ http://www.runrev.com/
Runtime Revolution - User-Centric Development Tools
Tel +44 (0) 131 7184333 Fax +44 (0) 845 4588487
~~~ Check our web site for new Revolution editions & special offers ~~~


From mpetrides at earthlink.net  Thu Feb 19 07:37:27 2004
From: mpetrides at earthlink.net (Marian Petrides)
Date: Thu, 19 Feb 2004 07:37:27 -0500
Subject: Yes, I'm back
In-Reply-To: <BC5A500C.2198B%heather@runrev.com>
References: <BC5A500C.2198B%heather@runrev.com>
Message-ID: <607E7F18-62D8-11D8-A675-000A959D005E@earthlink.net>

Glad to see you are back, Heather!  Hope you are feeling well.

Marian
On Feb 19, 2004, at 6:35 AM, Heather Nagey wrote:

>> "User contributions" have been updated, surely a sign that Heather
>> Williams has recovered that much to be able to lend a hand again.
>> Welcome back and best wishes for a complete recovery in the immediate
>> future!
>
> Thank you :)
>
> Thanks also to all the people who sent goodwill messages, I really
> appreciate them.
>
> Most of all, a huge vote of thanks to Jacque and to Graham Samuels, who
> voluntarily pitched in and took over the fearsome support workload 
> while I
> was unwell.
>
> As most of you are probably already aware, a great new centralized 
> support
> system has been devised while I was away, this should mean an end to
> unacceptable delays in response times when one or other staff member 
> is out
> of action for whatever reason. Support email on virtually all subjects
> should now be sent to support at runrev.com, where it will be sorted into 
> the
> appropriate queue and the best person to answer it can pick it out and
> respond in a timely manner. This is such a wondrous improvement, I 
> think I
> should get sick more often!
>
> Anyway, greetings one and all, its great to be back and watching the 
> lists
> once more,
>
> Heather
> (checking the list admin hat still fits... Yep, a bit dusty but 
> undented...)
> -- 
> Heather Nagey ~ heather at runrev.com ~ http://www.runrev.com/
> Runtime Revolution - User-Centric Development Tools
> Tel +44 (0) 131 7184333 Fax +44 (0) 845 4588487
> ~~~ Check our web site for new Revolution editions & special offers ~~~
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>


From jhurley at infostations.com  Thu Feb 19 09:25:30 2004
From: jhurley at infostations.com (Jim Hurley)
Date: Thu, 19 Feb 2004 06:25:30 -0800
Subject: OT: Web design software
In-Reply-To: <20040219083908.8A245930164@mail.runrev.com>
References: <20040219083908.8A245930164@mail.runrev.com>
Message-ID: <a05100302bc5a71315277@[66.81.142.199]>

LHP (little help please)

I have a book coming out in the not too distant future, and would 
like to put some interactive RunRev applications (physics 
simulations) for download on a web site. (I may  put them up on my 
FTP site soon.)

I've done some HTML web pages in the past using Adobe Page Mill 1.0. 
It was all right for the very simple stuff.

I know many of you have sites that allow the user to download stacks 
and applications by clicking buttons.

Is there a relatively simple Web design application which allows this 
facility? I'm looking for something relatively basic; the last thing 
I want to do is master another state of the art application.

JIm

P.S. One more constraint. I am an old Mac OS 9 die hard--more 
evidence of my backward ways.

From 3mcgrath at adelphia.net  Thu Feb 19 09:54:15 2004
From: 3mcgrath at adelphia.net (Thomas McGrath III)
Date: Thu, 19 Feb 2004 09:54:15 -0500
Subject: Transparent Dialogs and Multiple Choice Tutorial
In-Reply-To: <BC5A5098.2198C%heather@runrev.com>
References: <BC5A5098.2198C%heather@runrev.com>
Message-ID: <7C93883B-62EB-11D8-A57E-000A95DA60FA@adelphia.net>

Heather,

Glad your feeling better!

And thank you, even dates starting from now will help a bit.

Thanks also for the quick response as well

Tom

On Feb 19, 2004, at 6:38 AM, Heather Nagey wrote:

>> I want dates listed on the User Contributions section. I can't tell
>> what's new and what's not new.
>
> A simple and obvious improvement. I'll start adding dates to the 
> listings
> from now, but unfortunately I can't "back date" the existing listings 
> since
> I also have no idea how old they are. However, they are always added 
> from
> the top, so the further down the list the older the contribution.
>
> Regards,
>
> Heather
>
> -- 
> Heather Nagey ~ heather at runrev.com ~ http://www.runrev.com/
> Runtime Revolution - User-Centric Development Tools
> Tel +44 (0) 131 7184333 Fax +44 (0) 845 4588487
> ~~~ Check our web site for new Revolution editions & special offers ~~~
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>
>

Thomas J. McGrath III
SCS
1000 Killarney Dr.
Pittsburgh, PA 15234
412-885-8541


From 3mcgrath at adelphia.net  Thu Feb 19 10:05:30 2004
From: 3mcgrath at adelphia.net (Thomas McGrath III)
Date: Thu, 19 Feb 2004 10:05:30 -0500
Subject: OT: Web design software
In-Reply-To: <a05100302bc5a71315277@[66.81.142.199]>
References: <20040219083908.8A245930164@mail.runrev.com>
	<a05100302bc5a71315277@[66.81.142.199]>
Message-ID: <0EE6ED52-62ED-11D8-A57E-000A95DA60FA@adelphia.net>

Jim,

You might think about Contribute ($99) from macromedia. It works well 
with it's big brother Dreamweaver.
THe thing about contribute is that if "you already have a web page" you 
just browse to it in contribute and create a connection and then hit 
EDIT. There are templates galore and you change and highlight some text 
hit the "Link as" then "Files from my computer" (browse to the upload) 
and then when done editing (WYSIWYG) you just hit Publish. DONE

Contribute can handle a lot of things in an easier way.

It is meant for Web developers to give editable access to non web-savy 
types but maintain styles and code etc.
It also has "pay Pal" support which I have not yet played with.

I use Dreamweaver a lot but now I am starting to use Contribute about 
75% of the time for simple to hard changes.

If you are on .mac you can even get a discount ($79 I think) and get a 
bunch of extra templates for free.

Tom

)On Feb 19, 2004, at 9:25 AM, Jim Hurley wrote:

> LHP (little help please)
>
> I have a book coming out in the not too distant future, and would like 
> to put some interactive RunRev applications (physics simulations) for 
> download on a web site. (I may  put them up on my FTP site soon.)
>
> I've done some HTML web pages in the past using Adobe Page Mill 1.0. 
> It was all right for the very simple stuff.
>
> I know many of you have sites that allow the user to download stacks 
> and applications by clicking buttons.
>
> Is there a relatively simple Web design application which allows this 
> facility? I'm looking for something relatively basic; the last thing I 
> want to do is master another state of the art application.
>
> JIm
>
> P.S. One more constraint. I am an old Mac OS 9 die hard--more evidence 
> of my backward ways.
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>
>

Thomas J. McGrath III
SCS
1000 Killarney Dr.
Pittsburgh, PA 15234
412-885-8541


From ambassador at fourthworld.com  Thu Feb 19 10:19:08 2004
From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin)
Date: Thu, 19 Feb 2004 07:19:08 -0800
Subject: OT: Web design software
In-Reply-To: <a05100302bc5a71315277@[66.81.142.199]>
Message-ID: <BC5A13EB.3DAFA%ambassador@fourthworld.com>

Jim Hurley wrote:

> LHP (little help please)
> 
> I have a book coming out in the not too distant future, and would
> like to put some interactive RunRev applications (physics
> simulations) for download on a web site. (I may  put them up on my
> FTP site soon.)
> 
> I've done some HTML web pages in the past using Adobe Page Mill 1.0.
> It was all right for the very simple stuff.
> 
> I know many of you have sites that allow the user to download stacks
> and applications by clicking buttons.
> 
> Is there a relatively simple Web design application which allows this
> facility? I'm looking for something relatively basic; the last thing
> I want to do is master another state of the art application.

Since you'll have to deliver a player app for users to run them, why not
save them the extra step of using a Web browser and build a directory right
into your app which can download and run your stack files?

-- 
 Richard Gaskin 
 Fourth World Media Corporation
 ___________________________________________________________
 Ambassador at FourthWorld.com       http://www.FourthWorld.com


From rcozens at pon.net  Thu Feb 19 09:19:00 2004
From: rcozens at pon.net (Rob Cozens)
Date: Thu, 19 Feb 2004 07:19:00 -0700
Subject: why not stay in Script Debug Mode at all times?
In-Reply-To: <20040219003802.49853.qmail@web61110.mail.yahoo.com>
References: <20040219003802.49853.qmail@web61110.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <a05100301bc5a742e48e3@[66.52.165.107]>

>why not stay in Script Debug Mode
>at all times?

Hi Erik,

One reason is that "modal stack [stackName]" will lock up Rev if 
debug mode is selected.
-- 

Rob Cozens
CCW, Serendipity Software Company
http://www.oenolog.net/who.htm

"And I, which was two fooles, do so grow three;
Who are a little wise, the best fooles bee."

from "The Triple Foole" by John Donne (1572-1631)

From graham.samuel at wanadoo.fr  Thu Feb 19 10:19:20 2004
From: graham.samuel at wanadoo.fr (Graham Samuel)
Date: Thu, 19 Feb 2004 16:19:20 +0100
Subject: rev and languages
Message-ID: <6.0.1.1.2.20040219160057.01cf5018@pop3.blueyonder.co.uk>

This topic and its various aliases (ECMA and all that) has been going on 
for a long time and swelling the list disproportionately IMHO. Can I 
suggest - hopefully without offence to anyone - that we let it alone for a 
bit now. After all, we know the RunRev team are aware of the discussion, 
and we can guess where their priorities lie right now - a pretty long way 
from tweaking the Transcript language, don't you think?

BTW according to the RR website,
>This mailing list is intended for general discussion relating to using 
>Revolution and solving "how-to" questions with Revolution. This is the 
>place to ask "How do I write that script?", "How can I do...x?"
Hoping not to get flamed.

Graham

---------------------------------------------------
Graham Samuel / The Living Fossil Co. / UK & France  



From devin_asay at byu.edu  Mon Feb 16 11:33:46 2004
From: devin_asay at byu.edu (Devin Asay)
Date: Mon, 16 Feb 2004 09:33:46 -0700
Subject: Set browser "helper" app (Modified by Devin Asay)
Message-ID: <BBBBDBD6-62F0-11D8-AF14-000A95A6A138@byu.edu>

Again, please forgive the reposting if any of you have already received 
this. I have had problems getting my messages thru to the list and am 
working with Heather to correct this.

DNA

--------reposted message---------

Thanks, Richard and others.

Can you tell me what the mime type is for Safari? Something like 
application/x-rev?

By the way, who decides the official mime type designation? Who 
decided, for example, that the mime type for MS Excel documents is 
application/vnd.ms-excel? Is there a registry somewhere, or do they 
just "evolve" into a standard?

The topic of creating web-enabled apps in Rev is of great interest to 
me right now; I'm going to give a conference presentation later this 
year on Internet-enabled applications at a Symposium of foreign 
language educators. The working title is "The Browser is Dead; Long 
Live the Web". Of course I am going to be talking about how easy it is 
to create web-savvy apps in Revolution. I have read Richard Gaskin's 
excellent article on the subject, and I would welcome anyone's input 
who has experience/ideas on this topic.

Devin

On Feb 13, 2004, at 10:03 PM, Richard Gaskin wrote:

> Devin Asay wrote:
>
>> Does anyone know how to set the most commonly-used browsers in OS X to
>> automatically launch a rev stack (with Rev or some compiled Rev
>> launcher app) when it is clicked on in a web page? I want to be able 
>> to
>> have a user click on a stack link in my web page and have it launch,
>> instead of merely download or even try to show the contents in the web
>> page. Like happens when you click on a pdf link.
>
> You can do this by adding the appropriate MIME type in the prefs for 
> any
> browser -- except Apple's Safari. :(
>
> I use Mozilla and I just launched stack files from my Web site.  :(
>
> Th MIME types are there somewhere, only it seems Apple didn't provide 
> an
> interface for editing them. There must be a way to hack this very basic
> functionality -- anyone know how?  :\
>
>
Devin Asay
Humanities Technology and Research Support Center
Brigham Young University


From FlexibleLearning at aol.com  Thu Feb 19 10:56:20 2004
From: FlexibleLearning at aol.com (FlexibleLearning at aol.com)
Date: Thu, 19 Feb 2004 10:56:20 EST
Subject: OT: Web design software
Message-ID: <15b.2e1a5712.2d6636a4@aol.com>

>I've done some HTML web pages in the past using Adobe Page Mill 1.0. 
>It was all right for the very simple stuff.
>
>I know many of you have sites that allow the user to download stacks 
>and applications by clicking buttons.

>Is there a relatively simple Web design application which allows this 
>facility? I'm looking for something relatively basic; the last thing 
>I want to do is master another state of the art application.

Simple is good. Sledgehammers and nuts make poor bedfellows. Just edit the 
pages in SimpleText and add simple 'a href' download links. Or are you after 
something more complex?

>P.S. One more constraint. I am an old Mac OS 9 die hard--more 
>evidence of my backward ways.

Hey... There are a lot of us die-hards around, Jim! We survive because we 
don't bleed to death on cutting edge technology.

/H



From alex at mindlube.com  Thu Feb 19 10:58:02 2004
From: alex at mindlube.com (Alex Rice)
Date: Thu, 19 Feb 2004 08:58:02 -0700
Subject: Set browser "helper" app (Modified by Devin Asay)
In-Reply-To: <BBBBDBD6-62F0-11D8-AF14-000A95A6A138@byu.edu>
References: <BBBBDBD6-62F0-11D8-AF14-000A95A6A138@byu.edu>
Message-ID: <65A4D5A5-62F4-11D8-9BDA-000393C4760A@mindlube.com>


On Feb 16, 2004, at 9:33 AM, Devin Asay wrote:
> Can you tell me what the mime type is for Safari? Something like 
> application/x-rev?

Don't know

> By the way, who decides the official mime type designation? Who 
> decided, for example, that the mime type for MS Excel documents is 
> application/vnd.ms-excel? Is there a registry somewhere, or do they 
> just "evolve" into a standard?

Not certain, but I don't remember ever hearing about a registry. the 
MIME types that start with "x-" are "xperimental" or something; which 
means that if you are making on up ad-hoc, then prefix it with "x-".

If an organization controls a file format then they could choose a non 
"x-" MIME type.


> The topic of creating web-enabled apps in Rev is of great interest to 
> me right now; I'm going to give a conference presentation later this 
> year on Internet-enabled applications at a Symposium of foreign 
> language educators. The working title is "The Browser is Dead; Long 
> Live the Web". Of course I am going to be talking about how easy it is 
> to create web-savvy apps in Revolution. I have read Richard Gaskin's 
> excellent article on the subject, and I would welcome anyone's input 
> who has experience/ideas on this topic.

Cool!
re: MIME types for Web enabled Rev apps maybe it's not even an issue. 
Because in your script you can just do like this and load stacks right 
into the running engine:

go URL "http://domain/next-stack.rev"

--
Alex Rice | Mindlube Software | http://mindlube.com


From ambassador at fourthworld.com  Thu Feb 19 11:21:02 2004
From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin)
Date: Thu, 19 Feb 2004 08:21:02 -0800
Subject: Set browser "helper" app (Modified by Devin Asay)
In-Reply-To: <65A4D5A5-62F4-11D8-9BDA-000393C4760A@mindlube.com>
Message-ID: <BC5A226E.3DB16%ambassador@fourthworld.com>

On Feb 16, 2004, at 9:33 AM, Devin Asay wrote:
> Can you tell me what the mime type is for Safari? Something like
> application/x-rev?

Covered in detail here:
<http://lists.runrev.com/pipermail/use-revolution/2004-February/031607.html>

Also on this topic:

<http://lists.runrev.com/pipermail/use-revolution/2003-March/013990.html>

<http://lists.runrev.com/pipermail/use-revolution/2004-February/031387.html>

> The topic of creating web-enabled apps in Rev is of great interest to
> me right now; I'm going to give a conference presentation later this
> year on Internet-enabled applications at a Symposium of foreign
> language educators. The working title is "The Browser is Dead; Long
> Live the Web". 

That sounds really great.  Please post a URL to the finished paper.  I'll
add a link to it from my "Beyond the Browser" article as well.

-- 
 Richard Gaskin 
 Fourth World Media Corporation
 ___________________________________________________________
 Ambassador at FourthWorld.com       http://www.FourthWorld.com


From gizmotron at earthlink.net  Thu Feb 19 11:38:56 2004
From: gizmotron at earthlink.net (Mark Brownell)
Date: Thu, 19 Feb 2004 08:38:56 -0800
Subject: Windows Application Icon
In-Reply-To: <EC3994FD-618B-11D8-89BF-000A95859272@earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <1C1E72DE-62FA-11D8-B91E-000A95859272@earthlink.net>

Does anyone know how to add the Value 1 & Value 2 to my Intuition  
registration settings in HKEY_CLASSES_ROOT (see results below) using  
setRegistry?

I'm still not getting icon recognition using these four recommended  
setRegistry settings on a Windows XP Pro when intuition creates saved  
.mtml documents. Is this an XP Pro issue only? When I use XP Pro to  
force recognition it adds two things to the registry and then all works  
fine.

get setRegistry("HKEY_CLASSES_ROOT\.mtml\","Intuition")
get setRegistry("HKEY_CLASSES_ROOT\Intuition\","Intuition MTML  
document")

[in this location something to add Value 1 & Value 2 using setRegistry]

get setRegistry("HKEY_CLASSES_ROOT\Intuition\DefaultIcon\","C:\Program  
Files\Intuiion\Intuition.exe,1")
get  
setRegistry("HKEY_CLASSES_ROOT\Intuition\shell\open\command\","C:\Progra 
m Files\Intuiion\Intuition.exe %1")


regEdit result for adding them using forced recognition by the user:

Key Name:          HKEY_CLASSES_ROOT\Intuition
Class Name:        <NO CLASS>
Last Write Time:   2/14/2004 - 1:52 PM
Value 0
   Name:            <NO NAME>
   Type:            REG_SZ
   Data:            Intuition MTML document

Value 1
   Name:            EditFlags
   Type:            REG_DWORD
   Data:            0x0

Value 2
   Name:            BrowserFlags
   Type:            REG_DWORD
   Data:            0x8

===============================

Mark


From rcozens at pon.net  Thu Feb 19 10:53:31 2004
From: rcozens at pon.net (Rob Cozens)
Date: Thu, 19 Feb 2004 08:53:31 -0700
Subject: [OT] Cross Mac Platform Text Editing
Message-ID: <a05100300bc5a8ab3936c@[66.52.165.87]>

Hi All,

When moving text files created or modified with TextEdit on Mac OS 
10.2 to Mac OS 9, I find no OS 9 text editing app that will open 
them, even those stored as plain text.

How do other deal with this?  Is there a recommended cross Mac 
platform text editor?  [Preferably something without "Microsoft" in 
its pedigree.]

Rob Cozens
CCW, Serendipity Software Company
http://www.oenolog.net/who.htm

"And I, which was two fooles, do so grow three;
Who are a little wise, the best fooles bee."

from "The Triple Foole" by John Donne (1572-1631)

From gizmotron at earthlink.net  Thu Feb 19 12:00:29 2004
From: gizmotron at earthlink.net (Mark Brownell)
Date: Thu, 19 Feb 2004 09:00:29 -0800
Subject: [OT] Cross Mac Platform Text Editing
In-Reply-To: <a05100300bc5a8ab3936c@[66.52.165.87]>
Message-ID: <1ED20652-62FD-11D8-B91E-000A95859272@earthlink.net>


On Thursday, February 19, 2004, at 07:53  AM, Rob Cozens wrote:

> How do other deal with this?  Is there a recommended cross Mac 
> platform text editor?  [Preferably something without "Microsoft" in 
> its pedigree.]

I use BBEdit on Mac 9. I haven't bothered to upgrade to a new Mac 10 
yet.

mb


From b.xavier at internet.lu  Thu Feb 19 12:11:15 2004
From: b.xavier at internet.lu (MisterX)
Date: Thu, 19 Feb 2004 18:11:15 +0100
Subject: [OT] Cross Mac Platform Text Editing
In-Reply-To: <a05100300bc5a8ab3936c@[66.52.165.87]>
Message-ID: <ENEALNOCJBOOOHHCCEKNMEIHFNAA.b.xavier@internet.lu>

bbedit for Mac
UltraEdit for PC

Though I made my own "template" in MC...

> -----Original Message-----
> From: use-revolution-bounces at lists.runrev.com
> [mailto:use-revolution-bounces at lists.runrev.com]On Behalf Of Rob Cozens
> Sent: Thursday, February 19, 2004 16:54
> To: How to use Revolution
> Subject: [OT] Cross Mac Platform Text Editing
> 
> 
> Hi All,
> 
> When moving text files created or modified with TextEdit on Mac OS 
> 10.2 to Mac OS 9, I find no OS 9 text editing app that will open 
> them, even those stored as plain text.
> 
> How do other deal with this?  Is there a recommended cross Mac 
> platform text editor?  [Preferably something without "Microsoft" in 
> its pedigree.]
> 
> Rob Cozens
> CCW, Serendipity Software Company
> http://www.oenolog.net/who.htm
> 
> "And I, which was two fooles, do so grow three;
> Who are a little wise, the best fooles bee."
> 
> from "The Triple Foole" by John Donne (1572-1631)
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution

From alex at mindlube.com  Thu Feb 19 12:00:33 2004
From: alex at mindlube.com (Alex Rice)
Date: Thu, 19 Feb 2004 10:00:33 -0700
Subject: [OT] Cross Mac Platform Text Editing
In-Reply-To: <a05100300bc5a8ab3936c@[66.52.165.87]>
References: <a05100300bc5a8ab3936c@[66.52.165.87]>
Message-ID: <2169F39C-62FD-11D8-9BDA-000393C4760A@mindlube.com>


On Feb 19, 2004, at 8:53 AM, Rob Cozens wrote:

> Hi All,
>
> When moving text files created or modified with TextEdit on Mac OS 
> 10.2 to Mac OS 9, I find no OS 9 text editing app that will open them, 
> even those stored as plain text.

You sure you aren't creating RTF files with TextEdit?
Also, TextEdit has

> How do other deal with this?  Is there a recommended cross Mac 
> platform text editor?  [Preferably something without "Microsoft" in 
> its pedigree.]

A text file is a text file is a text file (except for line endings and 
text encoding)

I use TextEdit occasionally, and never have problems opening the files 
Unix or Windows text editors.

Maybe you are dealing with a file type issue and the apps you are 
trying on Mac OS 9 are saying: "no text type in resource fork. eh! 
bail."

--
Alex Rice | Mindlube Software | http://mindlube.com


From alex at mindlube.com  Thu Feb 19 12:07:40 2004
From: alex at mindlube.com (Alex Rice)
Date: Thu, 19 Feb 2004 10:07:40 -0700
Subject: [OT] Cross Mac Platform Text Editing
In-Reply-To: <2169F39C-62FD-11D8-9BDA-000393C4760A@mindlube.com>
References: <a05100300bc5a8ab3936c@[66.52.165.87]>
	<2169F39C-62FD-11D8-9BDA-000393C4760A@mindlube.com>
Message-ID: <201C3B17-62FE-11D8-9BDA-000393C4760A@mindlube.com>


On Feb 19, 2004, at 10:00 AM, Alex Rice wrote:

>
> Also, TextEdit has

I was going to say in TextEdit, you can verify the text encoding in the 
dialog File menu | Save As...

There you can select:
Mac OS Roman, ASCII, Unicode, etc.

Mac OS Roman should be fine for opening the file on Mac OS 9.

--
Alex Rice | Mindlube Software | http://mindlube.com


From preid at reidit.demon.co.uk  Thu Feb 19 12:12:22 2004
From: preid at reidit.demon.co.uk (Peter Reid)
Date: Thu, 19 Feb 2004 17:12:22 +0000
Subject: [OT] Cross Mac Platform Text Editing
In-Reply-To: <a05100300bc5a8ab3936c@[66.52.165.87]>
References: <a05100300bc5a8ab3936c@[66.52.165.87]>
Message-ID: <p06020400bc5a9d9150f5@[192.168.181.1]>

>When moving text files created or modified with TextEdit on Mac OS 
>10.2 to Mac OS 9, I find no OS 9 text editing app that will open 
>them, even those stored as plain text.
>
>How do other deal with this?  Is there a recommended cross Mac 
>platform text editor?  [Preferably something without "Microsoft" in 
>its pedigree.]
>
>Rob Cozens

I use free BBEdit Lite which, whilst being technically 
"discontinued", is still available for download at:

    http://www.barebones.com/products/bblite/index.shtml

and works well with Mac OS Classic up to and including Mac OS 9.2.2 
and also with Mac OS X from 10.1 to 10.3.2!

Of course, the full BBEdit is very good, but also expensive at $179.

I use TextPad on the PC, which costs a very reasonable $29, and can 
be downloaded from:

    http://www.textpad.com/

BBEdit (Lite or Full) and TextPad cope well with Mac, PC and Unix text files.

Cheers

Peter
-- 
Peter Reid
Reid-IT Limited, Loughborough, Leics., UK
Tel: +44 (0)1509 268843 Fax: +44 (0)8700 527576
E-mail: preid at reidit.co.uk
         preid at reidit.demon.co.uk
         peter.reidit at ntlworld.com
Web: http://www.reidit.co.uk
      http://www.reidit.demon.co.uk

From ambassador at fourthworld.com  Thu Feb 19 12:19:05 2004
From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin)
Date: Thu, 19 Feb 2004 09:19:05 -0800
Subject: [OT] Cross Mac Platform Text Editing
In-Reply-To: <a05100300bc5a8ab3936c@[66.52.165.87]>
Message-ID: <BC5A3009.3DB31%ambassador@fourthworld.com>

Rob Cozens wrote:

> Is there a recommended cross Mac platform text editor?

My favorite is a Rev field.

-- 
 Richard Gaskin 
 Fourth World Media Corporation
 Developer of WebMerge: Publish any database on any Web site
 ___________________________________________________________
 Ambassador at FourthWorld.com       http://www.FourthWorld.com


From dsc at swcp.com  Thu Feb 19 12:21:15 2004
From: dsc at swcp.com (Dar Scott)
Date: Thu, 19 Feb 2004 10:21:15 -0700
Subject: why not stay in Script Debug Mode at all times?
In-Reply-To: <a05100301bc5a742e48e3@[66.52.165.107]>
Message-ID: <05923B0D-6300-11D8-BD71-000A9567A3E6@swcp.com>


On Thursday, February 19, 2004, at 07:19 AM, Rob Cozens wrote:

>> why not stay in Script Debug Mode
>> at all times?

> One reason is that "modal stack [stackName]" will lock up Rev if debug 
> mode is selected.

Runaway recursion is not handled correctly, also.  (Bugzilla'd)

Dar Scott


From tuviah at runrev.com  Thu Feb 19 12:27:26 2004
From: tuviah at runrev.com (tuviah snyder)
Date: Thu, 19 Feb 2004 12:27:26 -0500
Subject: Transcript and/or ECMA - guess who started it?
References: <20040219150600.11C7693009F@mail.runrev.com>
Message-ID: <002001c3f70d$a5072410$1602a8c0@USER>

> If the "do" languages were to be expanded beyond AppleScript, I think
> Javascript should be high on the list of priorities.

It is supported. See the alternatelanguages function. It's not about
executing JavaScript..it's about getting JavaScript to work with Rev
objects, the debugger, and on all platforms.


Tuviah


From rcozens at pon.net  Thu Feb 19 11:52:58 2004
From: rcozens at pon.net (Rob Cozens)
Date: Thu, 19 Feb 2004 09:52:58 -0700
Subject: [OT] Cross Mac Platform Text Editing
In-Reply-To: <201C3B17-62FE-11D8-9BDA-000393C4760A@mindlube.com>
References: <a05100300bc5a8ab3936c@[66.52.165.87]>
 <2169F39C-62FD-11D8-9BDA-000393C4760A@mindlube.com>
 <201C3B17-62FE-11D8-9BDA-000393C4760A@mindlube.com>
Message-ID: <a05100300bc5a985cc92b@[66.52.165.184]>

Thanks to all who responded.

Since posting, I used ResEdit on OS 9 to look at the file coming from 
OS 10.  Both file type & creator look empty; however if I type into 
the file type without selecting & deleting, I'm told there are extra 
characters in the field.

I set the file type & creator to "TEXTttxt", and AppleWorks V5 can 
now open the file; but Code Warrior's text editor won't show the file 
even though it shows other (non TextEdit) files with the same 
Type/Creator set.

My main goal, being able to move a text file from OS X to OS 9 and 
edit it without having to modify it first, remains elusive.
-- 

Rob Cozens
CCW, Serendipity Software Company
http://www.oenolog.net/who.htm

"And I, which was two fooles, do so grow three;
Who are a little wise, the best fooles bee."

from "The Triple Foole" by John Donne (1572-1631)

From kray at sonsothunder.com  Thu Feb 19 13:14:43 2004
From: kray at sonsothunder.com (Ken Ray)
Date: Thu, 19 Feb 2004 12:14:43 -0600
Subject: Message Path 
In-Reply-To: <20040219111718.77D0119735E@xprdmailfe3.nwk.excite.com>
Message-ID: <026d01c3f714$43a77380$6601a8c0@LightningFlash>

You'd ask for the executionContexts from inside the function that was
being called.

Ken Ray
Sons of Thunder Software
Email: kray at sonsothunder.com
Web Site: http://www.sonsothunder.com/ 

> -----Original Message-----
> From: use-revolution-bounces at lists.runrev.com 
> [mailto:use-revolution-bounces at lists.runrev.com] On Behalf Of Kevin
> Sent: Thursday, February 19, 2004 5:17 AM
> To: use-revolution at runrev.com
> Subject: Message Path 
> 
> 
> 
> I would like to print the "message path"/"return stack" of 
> the current function.  Where would I find the message path 
> that got me to a particular function so I might do this? 
> 
> 
> kevin
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Join Excite! - http://www.excite.com
> The most personalized portal on the Web! 
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com 
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-> revolution
> 



From chrism at lumin.us  Thu Feb 19 13:19:48 2004
From: chrism at lumin.us (Christopher Mitchell)
Date: Thu, 19 Feb 2004 12:19:48 -0600
Subject: What is causing my missing taskbar (makes it necessary to
	ctrl-alt-del to close, can't tab back)
In-Reply-To: <BC59B17C.A3C3%scott@tactilemedia.com>
References: <BC59B17C.A3C3%scott@tactilemedia.com>
Message-ID: <33AB35E6-6308-11D8-B8DF-000393B64EDC@lumin.us>

Yes, I've read about this being done on the list and in the archives, 
but no matter how many people are doing it, it still sounds like a 
kludge to me.

Yours,
Chris
On Feb 19, 2004, at 2:19 AM, Scott Rossi wrote:

> On 2/18/04 9:07 PM, "Christopher Mitchell" <chrism at lumin.us> wrote:
>
> Yes, but you can "hide" the topLevel stack by keeping it visible and
> positioning it offscreen.


From kray at sonsothunder.com  Thu Feb 19 13:17:33 2004
From: kray at sonsothunder.com (Ken Ray)
Date: Thu, 19 Feb 2004 12:17:33 -0600
Subject: Yes, I'm back
In-Reply-To: <BC5A500C.2198B%heather@runrev.com>
Message-ID: <026f01c3f714$a6c598c0$6601a8c0@LightningFlash>

Welcome back, Heather! Glad to see you on the list!

:-)

Ken Ray
Sons of Thunder Software
Email: kray at sonsothunder.com
Web Site: http://www.sonsothunder.com/ 

> -----Original Message-----
> From: use-revolution-bounces at lists.runrev.com 
> [mailto:use-revolution-bounces at lists.runrev.com] On Behalf Of 
> Heather Nagey
> Sent: Thursday, February 19, 2004 5:36 AM
> To: use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> Subject: Yes, I'm back
> 
> 
> > "User contributions" have been updated, surely a sign that Heather 
> > Williams has recovered that much to be able to lend a hand again. 
> > Welcome back and best wishes for a complete recovery in the 
> immediate 
> > future!
> 
> Thank you :)
> 
> Thanks also to all the people who sent goodwill messages, I 
> really appreciate them.
> 
> Most of all, a huge vote of thanks to Jacque and to Graham 
> Samuels, who voluntarily pitched in and took over the 
> fearsome support workload while I was unwell.
> 
> As most of you are probably already aware, a great new 
> centralized support system has been devised while I was away, 
> this should mean an end to unacceptable delays in response 
> times when one or other staff member is out of action for 
> whatever reason. Support email on virtually all subjects 
> should now be sent to support at runrev.com, where it will be 
> sorted into the appropriate queue and the best person to 
> answer it can pick it out and respond in a timely manner. 
> This is such a wondrous improvement, I think I should get 
> sick more often!
> 
> Anyway, greetings one and all, its great to be back and 
> watching the lists once more,
> 
> Heather
> (checking the list admin hat still fits... Yep, a bit dusty 
> but undented...)
> -- 
> Heather Nagey ~ heather at runrev.com ~ http://www.runrev.com/ 
> Runtime Revolution - User-Centric Development Tools Tel +44 
> (0) 131 7184333 Fax +44 (0) 845 4588487 ~~~ Check our web 
> site for new Revolution editions & special offers ~~~
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com 
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-> revolution
> 



From kray at sonsothunder.com  Thu Feb 19 13:20:44 2004
From: kray at sonsothunder.com (Ken Ray)
Date: Thu, 19 Feb 2004 12:20:44 -0600
Subject: Windows Application Icon
In-Reply-To: <1C1E72DE-62FA-11D8-B91E-000A95859272@earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <027001c3f715$1aa4aec0$6601a8c0@LightningFlash>

Mark,

Here's the tip to help you out:

http://www.sonsothunder.com/devres/revolution/revolution.htm?_win001

Ken Ray
Sons of Thunder Software
Email: kray at sonsothunder.com
Web Site: http://www.sonsothunder.com/ 

> -----Original Message-----
> From: use-revolution-bounces at lists.runrev.com 
> [mailto:use-revolution-bounces at lists.runrev.com] On Behalf Of 
> Mark Brownell
> Sent: Thursday, February 19, 2004 10:39 AM
> To: How to use Revolution
> Subject: Re: Windows Application Icon
> 
> 
> Does anyone know how to add the Value 1 & Value 2 to my Intuition  
> registration settings in HKEY_CLASSES_ROOT (see results below) using  
> setRegistry?
> 
> I'm still not getting icon recognition using these four recommended  
> setRegistry settings on a Windows XP Pro when intuition 
> creates saved  
> .mtml documents. Is this an XP Pro issue only? When I use XP Pro to  
> force recognition it adds two things to the registry and then 
> all works  
> fine.
> 
> get setRegistry("HKEY_CLASSES_ROOT\.mtml\","Intuition")
> get setRegistry("HKEY_CLASSES_ROOT\Intuition\","Intuition MTML  
> document")
> 
> [in this location something to add Value 1 & Value 2 using 
> setRegistry]
> 
> get 
> setRegistry("HKEY_CLASSES_ROOT\Intuition\DefaultIcon\","C:\Program  
> Files\Intuiion\Intuition.exe,1")
> get  
> setRegistry("HKEY_CLASSES_ROOT\Intuition\shell\open\command\",
> "C:\Progra 
> m Files\Intuiion\Intuition.exe %1")
> 
> 
> regEdit result for adding them using forced recognition by the user:
> 
> Key Name:          HKEY_CLASSES_ROOT\Intuition
> Class Name:        <NO CLASS>
> Last Write Time:   2/14/2004 - 1:52 PM
> Value 0
>    Name:            <NO NAME>
>    Type:            REG_SZ
>    Data:            Intuition MTML document
> 
> Value 1
>    Name:            EditFlags
>    Type:            REG_DWORD
>    Data:            0x0
> 
> Value 2
>    Name:            BrowserFlags
>    Type:            REG_DWORD
>    Data:            0x8
> 
> ===============================
> 
> Mark
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com 
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-> revolution
> 



From alex at mindlube.com  Thu Feb 19 13:26:45 2004
From: alex at mindlube.com (Alex Rice)
Date: Thu, 19 Feb 2004 11:26:45 -0700
Subject: Message Path 
In-Reply-To: <026d01c3f714$43a77380$6601a8c0@LightningFlash>
References: <026d01c3f714$43a77380$6601a8c0@LightningFlash>
Message-ID: <2C154670-6309-11D8-9BDA-000393C4760A@mindlube.com>


On Feb 19, 2004, at 11:14 AM, Ken Ray wrote:

> You'd ask for the executionContexts from inside the function that was
> being called.

The executionContexts is undocumented. I wonder why?

--
Alex Rice | Mindlube Software | http://mindlube.com


From dcragg at lacscentre.co.uk  Thu Feb 19 13:52:07 2004
From: dcragg at lacscentre.co.uk (Dave Cragg)
Date: Thu, 19 Feb 2004 18:52:07 +0000
Subject: Transcript and/or ECMA - guess who started it?
In-Reply-To: <002001c3f70d$a5072410$1602a8c0@USER>
References: <20040219150600.11C7693009F@mail.runrev.com>
 <002001c3f70d$a5072410$1602a8c0@USER>
Message-ID: <p0602041abc5ab11e2bc8@[192.168.123.7]>

At 12:27 pm -0500 19/2/04, tuviah snyder wrote:
>>  If the "do" languages were to be expanded beyond AppleScript, I think
>>  Javascript should be high on the list of priorities.
>
>It is supported. See the alternatelanguages function.

But this is Mac only, right? (And is there a Javascript option for this?)

>  It's not about
>executing JavaScript..it's about getting JavaScript to work with Rev
>objects, the debugger, and on all platforms.

I was trying to separate the two things. Some of the practical uses 
of Javascript that have been mentioned have been concerned with 
execution., not as an alternative to Transcript. As you say, these 
are separate issues. But which would people prefer to see implemented 
first?  For me, executing javascript would be more useful than having 
it work with Rev objects.

Dave


From dsc at swcp.com  Thu Feb 19 14:18:39 2004
From: dsc at swcp.com (Dar Scott)
Date: Thu, 19 Feb 2004 12:18:39 -0700
Subject: Transcript and/or ECMA - guess who started it?
In-Reply-To: <p0602041abc5ab11e2bc8@[192.168.123.7]>
Message-ID: <6C8D906D-6310-11D8-BD71-000A9567A3E6@swcp.com>


On Thursday, February 19, 2004, at 11:52 AM, Dave Cragg wrote:

> For me, executing javascript would be more useful than having it work 
> with Rev objects.

Same here.

(I may be missing something.)

Dar


From gbojsza at mac.com  Thu Feb 19 14:20:37 2004
From: gbojsza at mac.com (Bojsza)
Date: Thu, 19 Feb 2004 13:20:37 -0600
Subject: Variable question
Message-ID: <B2C0F079-6310-11D8-A9F8-003065F00EF2@mac.com>

I am trying to get a simple repeat loop to work with a variable 
container.

on mouseUp
put 3 into s
	repeat with i = 1 to 2
		put s into f(i)
		put s + 5 into s
	end repeat
end mouseUp

Is there a way to make this work? Any variation of the f(i) syntax 
generates an error by Revolution.

thanks,

Glen


From leraillezB at netinfo.fr  Thu Feb 19 12:33:27 2004
From: leraillezB at netinfo.fr (Benoit Leraillez)
Date: Thu, 19 Feb 2004 18:33:27 +0100
Subject: Beginners global variable pb
Message-ID: <1134904040-46929661@netinfo.fr>

  Hi,


  I'm a beginner with Revolution (used other things in the past for
interface dev) but decided to use it since it corresponds exactly to what I
need for a cross-platform product prototype. My code maybe not the finest or
the most elegant but it basically does what it is supposed to do up to
now?;-)

  Now here is the problem I'm up to:

- The first card let's the user select the language interface for the rest
  of the stack. I know how to change on the fly the texts on that card to
  the user's selection from the scrolling list field. But I haven't found
  a way to store that selection so that every text field on every card
  displays text in the correct language (LanguageChoice is a global variable
  defined in the stack script in open stack and modified in the language
  selection script).

  Since I defined the variable as global up in the stack I don't understand
why it doesn't apply to every card and field. Maybe there is another way to
do this?

  (On top of that the ideal for me would be to have a hidden card containing
a table where each column would be a language and each row a field's content
since I could then keep simpler code in the text fields and probably import
and export the translations to work on it elsewhere than in Revolution.
First I've got to figure out how to "put content of cell
("LanguageChoice",3) of field "FullText" of card "Translation" into field
"Headline"" but I think I'll try to figure that out on my own before coming
here again?;-)


  TIA for any help.

  
P.S. Oh! Just one more thing, is there a way to have an image put in such
away that it appears in every cards at the same place when you create a new
card? And if you modify that image you don't have to copy and paste hundreds
of times? It ain't a priority but it would be cool?;-)

-- 
Beno?t Leraillez

Nous n'avons pas les moyens d'acheter bon march?.


From dsc at swcp.com  Thu Feb 19 14:22:40 2004
From: dsc at swcp.com (Dar Scott)
Date: Thu, 19 Feb 2004 12:22:40 -0700
Subject: Variable question
In-Reply-To: <B2C0F079-6310-11D8-A9F8-003065F00EF2@mac.com>
Message-ID: <FBB70D3C-6310-11D8-BD71-000A9567A3E6@swcp.com>


On Thursday, February 19, 2004, at 12:20 PM, Bojsza wrote:

> Is there a way to make this work? Any variation of the f(i) syntax 
> generates an error by Revolution.

Are you thinking of an array?  f[i]

Dar Scott


From gizmotron at earthlink.net  Thu Feb 19 14:29:07 2004
From: gizmotron at earthlink.net (Mark Brownell)
Date: Thu, 19 Feb 2004 11:29:07 -0800
Subject: Windows Application Icon
In-Reply-To: <027001c3f715$1aa4aec0$6601a8c0@LightningFlash>
Message-ID: <E25DD351-6311-11D8-8F2F-000A95859272@earthlink.net>


On Thursday, February 19, 2004, at 10:20  AM, Ken Ray wrote:

> Mark,
>
> Here's the tip to help you out:
>
> http://www.sonsothunder.com/devres/revolution/revolution.htm?_win001
>
> Ken Ray

Thanks. I knew I had seen that somewhere and have been searching for it 
for days. BTW thanks for posting all those great tips.

Mark


From rgmiller at pacbell.net  Thu Feb 19 13:35:28 2004
From: rgmiller at pacbell.net (Ray G. Miller)
Date: Thu, 19 Feb 2004 10:35:28 -0800
Subject: Transcript handling of OR and AND expressions
References: <20040218231140.E5390930184@mail.runrev.com>
Message-ID: <403501F0.2090805@pacbell.net>

>
>
>From: Dan Shafer <revdan at danshafer.com>
>
>This is, relatively speaking at least, how all of the major programming 
>languages work. There's even a name for it. I think it might be called 
>something like "lazy" Boolean evaluation.
>
>In any case, while Jim is right that this can be an issue if you use 
>expressions with side effects, the professional coders I've discussed 
>this with -- and there haven't been that many -- have essentially said, 
>"Don't include expressions in Boolean logic statements if thos 
>expressions have side effects. Rather, evaluate the expressions outside 
>the Boolean logic statement."
>
>  
>
In other words:

Cleanliness is next to buglessness.

Ray


Ray G. Miller
__________________
Turtlelips Productions
4009 Everett Ave.
Oakland, CA 94602
MailTo:rgmiller at pacbell.net
(V) 510.530.1971
(F) 510.482.3491





From wouter.abraham at pi.be  Thu Feb 19 15:04:26 2004
From: wouter.abraham at pi.be (Wouter)
Date: Thu, 19 Feb 2004 21:04:26 +0100
Subject: [OT] Cross Mac Platform Text Editing
In-Reply-To: <20040219182639.B9A5193009E@mail.runrev.com>
References: <20040219182639.B9A5193009E@mail.runrev.com>
Message-ID: <D16A8500-6316-11D8-A009-003065CC999E@pi.be>


On 19 Feb 2004, at 19:26, use-revolution-request at lists.runrev.com wrote:

> Message: 1
> Date: Thu, 19 Feb 2004 10:00:33 -0700
> From: Alex Rice <alex at mindlube.com>
> Subject: Re: [OT] Cross Mac Platform Text Editing
> To: How to use Revolution <use-revolution at lists.runrev.com>
> Message-ID: <2169F39C-62FD-11D8-9BDA-000393C4760A at mindlube.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed
>
>
> On Feb 19, 2004, at 8:53 AM, Rob Cozens wrote:
>
>> Hi All,
>>
>> When moving text files created or modified with TextEdit on Mac OS
>> 10.2 to Mac OS 9, I find no OS 9 text editing app that will open them,
>> even those stored as plain text.
>
> You sure you aren't creating RTF files with TextEdit?
> Also, TextEdit has
>
>> How do other deal with this?  Is there a recommended cross Mac
>> platform text editor?  [Preferably something without "Microsoft" in
>> its pedigree.]
>
> A text file is a text file is a text file (except for line endings and
> text encoding)
>
> I use TextEdit occasionally, and never have problems opening the files
> Unix or Windows text editors.
>
> Maybe you are dealing with a file type issue and the apps you are
> trying on Mac OS 9 are saying: "no text type in resource fork. eh!
> bail."
>
> --
> Alex Rice | Mindlube Software | http://mindlube.com
>

Text edit for Mac OS 9 has a 32 kb file limit.
For OS X take a look at  SubEthaEdit (former Hydra).
The name is horrible, but not the features!
http://www.codingmonkeys.de/subethaedit/
Is there something similar as this one on the other platforms?

Greetings,
WA


From thomas at visual-media.be  Thu Feb 19 15:29:58 2004
From: thomas at visual-media.be (Visual-Media)
Date: Thu, 19 Feb 2004 21:29:58 +0100
Subject: Historical evidence for early military use of projection.
Message-ID: <!~!UENERkVCMDkAAQACAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAABgAAAAAAAAAsEZubt6R0kuWSbk03lE7MsKAAAAQAAAAFJuQyPV5HE+JuDz5IoA1SgEAAAAA@visual-media.be>

Dear List Members,

Historical evidence for Military use of phantasmagoria projection
techniques during the tumultuous French Revolution.

See  <http://www.visual-media.be/garde-honneur.html>
http://www.visual-media.be/garde-honneur.html

All information related to this subject is very welcome. Illustrations,
eyewitness reports, etc.

Anybody knows about good historical mailing groups, specialized in the
French Revolution or general French history? Please let me know and/or
forward my question to a suchlike group.

Thank you very much,

Thomas Weynants
 <http://www.visual-media.be/> http://www.visual-media.be/


From chipp at chipp.com  Thu Feb 19 15:38:39 2004
From: chipp at chipp.com (Chipp Walters)
Date: Thu, 19 Feb 2004 14:38:39 -0600
Subject: Windows Application Icon
In-Reply-To: <1C1E72DE-62FA-11D8-B91E-000A95859272@earthlink.net>
References: <1C1E72DE-62FA-11D8-B91E-000A95859272@earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <40351ECF.2090405@chipp.com>

Hi Mark,

Just a lame question, but are you *sure* XP will work with 4 char 
extensions?

-Chipp

Mark Brownell wrote:

> Does anyone know how to add the Value 1 & Value 2 to my Intuition  
> registration settings in HKEY_CLASSES_ROOT (see results below) using  
> setRegistry?
> 
> I'm still not getting icon recognition using these four recommended  
> setRegistry settings on a Windows XP Pro when intuition creates saved  
> .mtml documents. Is this an XP Pro issue only? When I use XP Pro to  
> force recognition it adds two things to the registry and then all works  
> fine.
> 
> get setRegistry("HKEY_CLASSES_ROOT\.mtml\","Intuition")
> get setRegistry("HKEY_CLASSES_ROOT\Intuition\","Intuition MTML  document")
> 
> [in this location something to add Value 1 & Value 2 using setRegistry]
> 
> get setRegistry("HKEY_CLASSES_ROOT\Intuition\DefaultIcon\","C:\Program  
> Files\Intuiion\Intuition.exe,1")
> get  
> setRegistry("HKEY_CLASSES_ROOT\Intuition\shell\open\command\","C:\Progra 
> m Files\Intuiion\Intuition.exe %1")
> 
> 
> regEdit result for adding them using forced recognition by the user:
> 
> Key Name:          HKEY_CLASSES_ROOT\Intuition
> Class Name:        <NO CLASS>
> Last Write Time:   2/14/2004 - 1:52 PM
> Value 0
>   Name:            <NO NAME>
>   Type:            REG_SZ
>   Data:            Intuition MTML document
> 
> Value 1
>   Name:            EditFlags
>   Type:            REG_DWORD
>   Data:            0x0
> 
> Value 2
>   Name:            BrowserFlags
>   Type:            REG_DWORD
>   Data:            0x8
> 
> ===============================
> 
> Mark
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
> 

From erikhans08 at yahoo.com  Thu Feb 19 15:39:10 2004
From: erikhans08 at yahoo.com (Erik Hansen)
Date: Thu, 19 Feb 2004 12:39:10 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Variable arguements
In-Reply-To: <20040219103711.BF4E2299D6@xprdmailfe21.nwk.excite.com>
Message-ID: <20040219203910.98536.qmail@web61110.mail.yahoo.com>

--- Kevin <nnoydb at excite.com> wrote:
> 
> Please ignore I found it. Just looking in wrong
> place. 

want to share it?

=====
erik at erikhansen.org    http://www.erikhansen.org

__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Mail SpamGuard - Read only the mail you want.
http://antispam.yahoo.com/tools

From kray at sonsothunder.com  Thu Feb 19 15:50:25 2004
From: kray at sonsothunder.com (Ken Ray)
Date: Thu, 19 Feb 2004 14:50:25 -0600
Subject: Beginners global variable pb
In-Reply-To: <1134904040-46929661@netinfo.fr>
Message-ID: <02ab01c3f72a$041f19a0$6601a8c0@LightningFlash>

>   Since I defined the variable as global up in the stack I 
> don't understand why it doesn't apply to every card and 
> field. Maybe there is another way to do this?

No, you have it right, but there's a second step that needs to be taken.
Once a global variable is defined and given a value, other scripts that
need to retrieve the value from the global need to make that global
accessible. This is done through re-declaring the global in the script
that wants to retrieve the value. Note also that the "global"
declaration can be either *inside* a handler, or *outside* a handler. If
it's *inside*, the access to the global is only for *that* handler (and
no others in the script, unless they too have declared the global in
their handlers). If it's *outside", it is accessible by all handlers in
that script. Note that if you try to use a global to which you don't
have access, Rev will think you're talking about an unquoted string and
will return the name of the variable instead (see the examples below).

For example, if in your stack script you had:

on openStack
  global gMyGlobal
  put "Hello" into gMyGlobal
end openStack

and then on some button on some card you wanted to get (or change) the
global gMyGlobal, you could do it in one of two ways (note I'm showing
two handlers in a button script to describe the difference between
declaring access to the global inside or outside of a handler):

1) Inside the handler:

on mouseUp
  global gMyGlobal
  put gMyGlobal  --> puts "Hello" into the message box
  DoMyCustomHandler
end mouseUp

on DoMyCustomHandler
  answer gMyGlobal  --> brings up an answer dialog with the word
"gMyGlobal" in it
  -- This is because inside this handler, gMyGlobal is an unknown
variable and
  -- Rev treats it as an unquoted string
end DoMyCustomHandler

2) Outside the handler:

global gMyGlobal

on mouseUp
  put gMyGlobal  --> puts "Hello" into the message box
  DoMyCustomHandler
end mouseUp

on DoMyCustomHandler
  answer gMyGlobal  --> brings up an answer dialog with the word "Hello"
in it
end DoMyCustomHandler

I hope this is clear; if not, please let me know and I (or someone else
on this list) will clarify.
> P.S. Oh! Just one more thing, is there a way to have an image 
> put in such away that it appears in every cards at the same 
> place when you create a new card? And if you modify that 
> image you don't have to copy and paste hundreds of times? It 
> ain't a priority but it would be cool?;-)

Yes. What you do is put the image into a group (select the image and
choose "Group Selected" from the Object menu). Then set the
"backgroundBehavior" property of the group ("Behave like a background")
to "true" (check the checkbox in the Properties palette for the group).
If this is done on the last card of your stack, any subsequently created
cards will have that image on it. To apply it to cards you already have
created, go to a card that doesn't have it and choose "Place Group" from
the Object menu.

Hope this helps,

Ken Ray
Sons of Thunder Software
Email: kray at sonsothunder.com
Web Site: http://www.sonsothunder.com/ 



From revolution at jaedworks.com  Thu Feb 19 16:18:54 2004
From: revolution at jaedworks.com (Jeanne A. E. DeVoto)
Date: Thu, 19 Feb 2004 13:18:54 -0800
Subject: Using a field as a menu
In-Reply-To: <BC59A935.54F2%JimCarwardine@OwnYourFuture-net.com>
References: <BC59A935.54F2%JimCarwardine@OwnYourFuture-net.com>
Message-ID: <p06010269bc5a2309bc99@[10.0.1.3]>

At 11:43 PM -0400 2/18/2004, Jim Carwardine wrote:
>This gives a contextual menu where the upper left of the popup stack is at
>the position of the mouse click.  Also, the border of the menu is missing so
>it blends in with the background of the card.  Is there a way to force the
>upper left of the popup stack to be the lower left of the button that shows
>it?

The popup command lets you specify a location, so you can say
   on mouseDown
     popup stack "My Menu" at the bottomLeft of me
   end mouseDown


>How can I get a border around the popup stack and get the focus border to
>show around the button in the popup stack?   Jim

Check out the armBorder property for the popup stack's buttons. 
Setting it to true will show a border when the mouse moves into the 
menu item.
-- 
jeanne a. e. devoto ~ jaed at jaedworks.com
http://www.jaedworks.com

From revolution at jaedworks.com  Thu Feb 19 16:02:49 2004
From: revolution at jaedworks.com (Jeanne A. E. DeVoto)
Date: Thu, 19 Feb 2004 13:02:49 -0800
Subject: Message Path
In-Reply-To: <2C154670-6309-11D8-9BDA-000393C4760A@mindlube.com>
References: <026d01c3f714$43a77380$6601a8c0@LightningFlash>
 <2C154670-6309-11D8-9BDA-000393C4760A@mindlube.com>
Message-ID: <p06010299bc5ad48849a6@[10.0.1.3]>

At 11:26 AM -0700 2/19/2004, Alex Rice wrote:
>The executionContexts is undocumented. I wonder why?

No dire reason or anything - I just hadn't yet documented the new 
debugging model, which executionContext is part of.
-- 
jeanne a. e. devoto ~ jaed at jaedworks.com
http://www.jaedworks.com

From jhurley at infostations.com  Thu Feb 19 16:19:25 2004
From: jhurley at infostations.com (Jim Hurley)
Date: Thu, 19 Feb 2004 13:19:25 -0800
Subject: OT: Web design software
In-Reply-To: <20040219170002.28C519300CF@mail.runrev.com>
References: <20040219170002.28C519300CF@mail.runrev.com>
Message-ID: <a05100306bc5ad5ff0165@[69.19.148.63]>

>
>Message: 1
>Date: Thu, 19 Feb 2004 07:19:08 -0800
>From: Richard Gaskin <ambassador at fourthworld.com>
>Subject: Re: OT: Web design software
>To: How to use Revolution <use-revolution at lists.runrev.com>
>Message-ID: <BC5A13EB.3DAFA%ambassador at fourthworld.com>
>Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
>
>Jim Hurley wrote:
>
>>  LHP (little help please)
>>
>>  I have a book coming out in the not too distant future, and would
>>  like to put some interactive RunRev applications (physics
>>  simulations) for download on a web site. (I may  put them up on my
>>  FTP site soon.)
>>
>>  I've done some HTML web pages in the past using Adobe Page Mill 1.0.
>>  It was all right for the very simple stuff.
>>
>>  I know many of you have sites that allow the user to download stacks
>>  and applications by clicking buttons.
>>
>  > Is there a relatively simple Web design application which allows this
>>  facility? I'm looking for something relatively basic; the last thing
>>  I want to do is master another state of the art application.
>
>Since you'll have to deliver a player app for users to run them, why not
>save them the extra step of using a Web browser and build a directory right
>into your app which can download and run your stack files?
>
>--
>  Richard Gaskin
>

Richard,

I appreciate your advice on this matter. I have no feel at all for 
delivering this package via the web.

There will be about five or six separate themes. I have developed 
each on one or two cards (maybe a substack) all as part of one stack. 
There will be a front piece (card one) with an index and buttons to 
take the user to the specific theme.

My thought was to simply create a standalone consisting of the entire 
stack (it won't be large) and store that on a web site with the url 
to be cited in the book.

Pretty basic. Is there a better way?

Jim


From klaus at major-k.de  Thu Feb 19 16:27:04 2004
From: klaus at major-k.de (Klaus Major)
Date: Thu, 19 Feb 2004 22:27:04 +0100
Subject: Beginners global variable pb
In-Reply-To: <1134904040-46929661@netinfo.fr>
References: <1134904040-46929661@netinfo.fr>
Message-ID: <5CDF9EE9-6322-11D8-AC00-000A27B49A96@major-k.de>

Bon soir Benoit,

at first a warm welcome to this list :-)

>   Hi,
>
>   I'm a beginner with Revolution (used other things in the past for
> interface dev) but decided to use it since it corresponds exactly to 
> what I
> need for a cross-platform product prototype. My code maybe not the 
> finest or
> the most elegant but it basically does what it is supposed to do up to
> now?;-)
>
>   Now here is the problem I'm up to:
>
> - The first card let's the user select the language interface for the 
> rest
>   of the stack. I know how to change on the fly the texts on that card 
> to
>   the user's selection from the scrolling list field. But I haven't 
> found
>   a way to store that selection so that every text field on every card
>   displays text in the correct language (LanguageChoice is a global 
> variable
>   defined in the stack script in open stack and modified in the 
> language
>   selection script)
> ....
>   TIA for any help.

Check my website, see below, click X-Talk and download the file 
"CP_sets1"...

This might get you started, and feel free to ask more questions here
as they come up :-)

> P.S. Oh! Just one more thing, is there a way to have an image put in 
> such
> away that it appears in every cards at the same place when you create 
> a new
> card? And if you modify that image you don't have to copy and paste 
> hundreds
> of times? It ain't a priority but it would be cool?;-)

You can simply group the image(s) you want as a "background",
check "backgroundbehaviour" in the inspector and then you can place
that group on any card you want.

ONE (or more, and not only!) image(s) on MANY cards.


Hope that helps...

> -- 

Bonne nuit :-)


Regards

Klaus Major
klaus at major-k.de
www.major-k.de


From pixelbird at interisland.net  Thu Feb 19 16:28:47 2004
From: pixelbird at interisland.net (Ken Norris)
Date: Thu, 19 Feb 2004 13:28:47 -0800
Subject: rev and languages
In-Reply-To: <20040219150559.C3A3A930095@mail.runrev.com>
Message-ID: <BC5A6A8F.5147%pixelbird@interisland.net>

Howdy,

> Date: Thu, 19 Feb 2004 11:36:33 +0100
> From: mcdomi at free.fr (Dom)
> Subject: Re: rev and languages

> 
> let x = x + 1
> 
> Eeeeer, isn't RealBASIC?
------------
I always considered my ear to be real basic ;-)

Ken N.


From revolution at jaedworks.com  Thu Feb 19 16:35:51 2004
From: revolution at jaedworks.com (Jeanne A. E. DeVoto)
Date: Thu, 19 Feb 2004 13:35:51 -0800
Subject: Beginners global variable pb
In-Reply-To: <1134904040-46929661@netinfo.fr>
References: <1134904040-46929661@netinfo.fr>
Message-ID: <p0601029abc5ad54f782a@[10.0.1.3]>

At 6:33 PM +0100 2/19/2004, Benoit Leraillez wrote:
>- The first card let's the user select the language interface for the rest
>   of the stack. I know how to change on the fly the texts on that card to
>   the user's selection from the scrolling list field. But I haven't found
>   a way to store that selection so that every text field on every card
>   displays text in the correct language (LanguageChoice is a global variable
>   defined in the stack script in open stack and modified in the language
>   selection script).
>
>   Since I defined the variable as global up in the stack I don't understand
>why it doesn't apply to every card and field. Maybe there is another way to
>do this?

Are you declaring the global variable wherever you need to use it? (A 
global needs to be declared in each handler where you access its 
value.) For example, if you store the language in a mouseUp handler 
in a button script, you can use the language anywhere - but you must 
declare the global:

   on openCard
     global languageChoice -- now it is accessible
     answer "The language is" && languageChoice
     -- shows previously-chosen language choice
   end openCard

>   (On top of that the ideal for me would be to have a hidden card containing
>a table where each column would be a language and each row a field's content
>since I could then keep simpler code in the text fields and probably import
>and export the translations to work on it elsewhere than in Revolution.

You might want to put the translation for each language into a custom 
property instead. (Take a look in the docs, in the topic "About 
custom properties and custom property sets", which you can find under 
"Values and Properties" when viewing all documentation by category. 
About halfway down there is a short translation example for exactly 
this situation.)

The basic idea here is that, instead of having a hidden card, you 
have sets of custom properties for each card - one set for each 
language - to hold the correct text for that card.

For example, suppose you have two fields - Title and Main. To store 
the French translation, you would create a custom property set named 
"French", and in that set, there would be two properties - one for 
the Title text, and one for the Main text. Similarly, for each other 
language, you would create a custom property set that contains two 
properties - so you could have sets named "English", "Spanish", etc.

Then in a preOpenCard handler, you find the correct set for the 
current language, and put the text for that language into the two 
fields. Here is a quick example:

   on preOpenCard -- this handler goes in the stack script
     global languageChoice
     set the customPropertySet of this card to languageChoice -- switch sets
     -- this lets you access the custom properties in that set
     -- because the customPropertySet has been set to the language, the
     -- next two lines get the custom properties from that set.
     put the titleText of this card into field "Title"
     put the mainText of this card into field "Main"
     set the customPropertySet of this card to empty -- back to default set
   end preOpenCard

(I hope this isn't too confusing. Some of these ideas - custom 
properties, custom property sets - may be new to you since you're a 
beginner. If you prefer you can ignore all this for now, and just 
keep it in mind for later. ;-)


>P.S. Oh! Just one more thing, is there a way to have an image put in such
>away that it appears in every cards at the same place when you create a new
>card? And if you modify that image you don't have to copy and paste hundreds
>of times? It ain't a priority but it would be cool ;-)

Certainly! To do this, you make the image into a shared group. 
(Groups usually contain more than one object, but you can create a 
group with one object too. This is useful when you want to share a 
single object among different cards, because groups can be shared in 
this way.)

First create the image, then select it with the pointer tool and 
choose "Group Selected" from the Object menu. This makes the image 
into a group.

If you want the group to appear automatically on all the new cards 
you create, set the group's backgroundBehavior property to true. You 
can either do this in the message box, or check the "Behave like a 
background" box in the group's property inspector window.
-- 
jeanne a. e. devoto ~ jaed at jaedworks.com
http://www.jaedworks.com

From pixelbird at interisland.net  Thu Feb 19 16:39:23 2004
From: pixelbird at interisland.net (Ken Norris)
Date: Thu, 19 Feb 2004 13:39:23 -0800
Subject: Yes, I'm back 
In-Reply-To: <20040219150559.C3A3A930095@mail.runrev.com>
Message-ID: <BC5A6D0B.5148%pixelbird@interisland.net>

Hi Heather,

> Date: Thu, 19 Feb 2004 11:35:40 +0000
> From: Heather Nagey <heather at runrev.com>
> Subject: Yes, I'm back
>> "User contributions" have been updated, surely a sign that Heather
>> Williams has recovered that much to be able to lend a hand again.
>> Welcome back and best wishes for a complete recovery in the immediate
>> future!
> 
> Thank you :)
> 
> Thanks also to all the people who sent goodwill messages, I really
> appreciate them.
-----------
I have been kind of offlist for awhile, so I didn't know. Glad you're
feeling better and back to work.

Ken N.


From pixelbird at interisland.net  Thu Feb 19 16:51:39 2004
From: pixelbird at interisland.net (Ken Norris)
Date: Thu, 19 Feb 2004 13:51:39 -0800
Subject: OT: Web design software
In-Reply-To: <20040219150559.C3A3A930095@mail.runrev.com>
Message-ID: <BC5A6FEB.5149%pixelbird@interisland.net>

Hi Jim,

> Date: Thu, 19 Feb 2004 06:25:30 -0800
> From: Jim Hurley <jhurley at infostations.com>
> Subject: OT: Web design software

> Is there a relatively simple Web design application which allows this
> facility? I'm looking for something relatively basic; the last thing
> I want to do is master another state of the art application.

> P.S. One more constraint. I am an old Mac OS 9 die hard--more
> evidence of my backward ways.
-----------
Me too (not for much longer, though). I'm just doing real simple stuff
myself, so on my Mac I just use Netscape's "Compose" (part of Navigator) and
Transmit (dirt cheap  shareware, ultra fast and simple). Example my site I
just stuck together. I figure I'll just build as I go:

<http://www.interisland.net/pixelbird/>

Ken N.



From pixelbird at interisland.net  Thu Feb 19 16:57:44 2004
From: pixelbird at interisland.net (Ken Norris)
Date: Thu, 19 Feb 2004 13:57:44 -0800
Subject: OT: Web design software
In-Reply-To: <20040219165959.932719300C9@mail.runrev.com>
Message-ID: <BC5A7158.514A%pixelbird@interisland.net>

Hi Richard,

> Date: Thu, 19 Feb 2004 07:19:08 -0800
> From: Richard Gaskin <ambassador at fourthworld.com>
> Subject: Re: OT: Web design software

> 
> Since you'll have to deliver a player app for users to run them, why not
> save them the extra step of using a Web browser and build a directory right
> into your app which can download and run your stack files?
-----------
Great idea! How? (I'm also interested)

TIA,
Ken N.


From James.Cass at sealedair.com  Thu Feb 19 16:55:59 2004
From: James.Cass at sealedair.com (James.Cass at sealedair.com)
Date: Thu, 19 Feb 2004 16:55:59 -0500
Subject: Drag-n-drop Time Out & Rev Freeze
Message-ID: <OF98B366AD.D5DD1F32-ON85256E3E.007B6ED9-85256E3F.00792445@sealedair.com>

Here's what happens:

1.  I drag some files from the OS (Mac OS X) to a drag-n-drop enabled 
field.
2.  I have answer dialogs during the Drag-n-drop handler to give feedback 
to the user.
3.  If the answer dialogs are not answered within 20 seconds, the 
Drag-n-Drop times out and freezes Revolution.

Has anyone encountered this problem and come up with a fix?

Thanks in advance....James

From ambassador at fourthworld.com  Thu Feb 19 17:18:45 2004
From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin)
Date: Thu, 19 Feb 2004 14:18:45 -0800
Subject: OT: Web design software
In-Reply-To: <BC5A7158.514A%pixelbird@interisland.net>
Message-ID: <BC5A7645.3DBA9%ambassador@fourthworld.com>

Ken Norris wrote:

>> Since you'll have to deliver a player app for users to run them, why not
>> save them the extra step of using a Web browser and build a directory right
>> into your app which can download and run your stack files?
> -----------
> Great idea! How? (I'm also interested)

See RevNet, picture it as a standalone.

-- 
 Richard Gaskin 
 Fourth World Media Corporation
 Developer of WebMerge: Publish any database on any Web site
 ___________________________________________________________
 Ambassador at FourthWorld.com       http://www.FourthWorld.com


From 3mcgrath at adelphia.net  Thu Feb 19 17:21:37 2004
From: 3mcgrath at adelphia.net (Thomas McGrath III)
Date: Thu, 19 Feb 2004 17:21:37 -0500
Subject: [OT] Cross Mac Platform Text Editing
In-Reply-To: <a05100300bc5a8ab3936c@[66.52.165.87]>
References: <a05100300bc5a8ab3936c@[66.52.165.87]>
Message-ID: <FB7DB235-6329-11D8-A57E-000A95DA60FA@adelphia.net>

SimpleText


On Feb 19, 2004, at 10:53 AM, Rob Cozens wrote:

> Hi All,
>
> When moving text files created or modified with TextEdit on Mac OS 
> 10.2 to Mac OS 9, I find no OS 9 text editing app that will open them, 
> even those stored as plain text.
>
> How do other deal with this?  Is there a recommended cross Mac 
> platform text editor?  [Preferably something without "Microsoft" in 
> its pedigree.]
>
> Rob Cozens
> CCW, Serendipity Software Company
> http://www.oenolog.net/who.htm
>
> "And I, which was two fooles, do so grow three;
> Who are a little wise, the best fooles bee."
>
> from "The Triple Foole" by John Donne (1572-1631)
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>
>

Thomas J. McGrath III
SCS
1000 Killarney Dr.
Pittsburgh, PA 15234
412-885-8541


From kray at sonsothunder.com  Thu Feb 19 17:25:34 2004
From: kray at sonsothunder.com (Ken Ray)
Date: Thu, 19 Feb 2004 16:25:34 -0600
Subject: Drag-n-drop Time Out & Rev Freeze
In-Reply-To: <OF98B366AD.D5DD1F32-ON85256E3E.007B6ED9-85256E3F.00792445@sealedair.com>
Message-ID: <02c301c3f737$4e7eca60$6601a8c0@LightningFlash>

Well, you could accept the file names from the drop and store them in a
variable (don't put them in a field), and *then* bring up your answer
dialogs. If everything's OK, you use the data in the variable; if not,
you ditch it.

Ken Ray
Sons of Thunder Software
Email: kray at sonsothunder.com
Web Site: http://www.sonsothunder.com/ 

> -----Original Message-----
> From: use-revolution-bounces at lists.runrev.com 
> [mailto:use-revolution-bounces at lists.runrev.com] On Behalf Of 
> James.Cass at sealedair.com
> Sent: Thursday, February 19, 2004 3:56 PM
> To: How to use Revolution
> Subject: Drag-n-drop Time Out & Rev Freeze
> 
> 
> Here's what happens:
> 
> 1.  I drag some files from the OS (Mac OS X) to a drag-n-drop enabled 
> field.
> 2.  I have answer dialogs during the Drag-n-drop handler to 
> give feedback 
> to the user.
> 3.  If the answer dialogs are not answered within 20 seconds, the 
> Drag-n-Drop times out and freezes Revolution.
> 
> Has anyone encountered this problem and come up with a fix?
> 
> Thanks in advance....James 
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com 
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-> revolution
> 



From scott at tactilemedia.com  Thu Feb 19 17:28:04 2004
From: scott at tactilemedia.com (Scott Rossi)
Date: Thu, 19 Feb 2004 14:28:04 -0800
Subject: Awards?
In-Reply-To: <!~!UENERkVCMDkAAQACAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAABgAAAAAAAAAsEZubt6R0kuWSbk03lE7MsKAAAAQAAAAFJuQyPV5HE+JuDz5IoA1SgEAAAAA@visual-media.be>
Message-ID: <BC5A7874.A2F1%scott@tactilemedia.com>

It's probably a good time for Rev to start offering public awards to
productive developers:

http://maccentral.macworld.com/news/2004/02/19/realbasic/index.php?redirect=
1077200573000

Regards,

Scott Rossi
Creative Director
Tactile Media, Multimedia & Design
-----
E: scott at tactilemedia.com
W: http://www.tactilemedia.com


From herz at ucsd.edu  Thu Feb 19 17:46:37 2004
From: herz at ucsd.edu (Richard K. Herz)
Date: Thu, 19 Feb 2004 14:46:37 -0800
Subject: OT: Web design software
References: <20040219222025.CFEC69300DB@mail.runrev.com>
Message-ID: <00be01c3f73a$3c06d370$58bfef84@maerkhpc1>

Richard Gaskin wrote:

>>Since you'll have to deliver a player app for users to run them, why not
>>save them the extra step of using a Web browser and build a directory
>> right into your app which can download and run your stack files?

Jim Hurley replied:

>My thought was to simply create a standalone consisting of the entire
>stack (it won't be large) and store that on a web site with the url
>to be cited in the book.

>From my own experience, I recommend Richard's approach - something similar
to his RevNet.  This will give you a way to get corrected or revised stacks
to users easily, as well as new stacks you think up later.  A user can
download your existing standalone set of stacks in a single archive file.
Then, when a web connection is available, the standalone can check for
updates.  My approach is described at
http://reactorlab.net/intro/InternetApp.html .

Rich Herz



From 3mcgrath at adelphia.net  Thu Feb 19 18:04:00 2004
From: 3mcgrath at adelphia.net (Thomas McGrath III)
Date: Thu, 19 Feb 2004 18:04:00 -0500
Subject: Transcript and/or ECMA - guess who started it?
In-Reply-To: <6C8D906D-6310-11D8-BD71-000A9567A3E6@swcp.com>
References: <6C8D906D-6310-11D8-BD71-000A9567A3E6@swcp.com>
Message-ID: <E79B55B9-632F-11D8-A57E-000A95DA60FA@adelphia.net>

I just checked. If you install JavaScript OSA then it shows up in the 
alternateLanguages in REV.

So that tells me a do as javascript is in REV.


On Feb 19, 2004, at 2:18 PM, Dar Scott wrote:

>
> On Thursday, February 19, 2004, at 11:52 AM, Dave Cragg wrote:
>
>> For me, executing javascript would be more useful than having it work 
>> with Rev objects.
>
> Same here.
>
> (I may be missing something.)
>
> Dar
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>
>

Thomas J. McGrath III
SCS
1000 Killarney Dr.
Pittsburgh, PA 15234
412-885-8541


From 3mcgrath at adelphia.net  Thu Feb 19 18:07:20 2004
From: 3mcgrath at adelphia.net (Thomas McGrath III)
Date: Thu, 19 Feb 2004 18:07:20 -0500
Subject: Beginners global variable pb
In-Reply-To: <1134904040-46929661@netinfo.fr>
References: <1134904040-46929661@netinfo.fr>
Message-ID: <5E832085-6330-11D8-A57E-000A95DA60FA@adelphia.net>

If you import the image as control and group the control (all by 
itself) then set the property inspector to background beahvior, then on 
each new card created the image will be there.
Also, if you have already created cards then you can 'place' the group 
via scripting or menu item.

Tom

On Feb 19, 2004, at 12:33 PM, Benoit Leraillez wrote:

>   Hi,
>
> P.S. Oh! Just one more thing, is there a way to have an image put in 
> such
> away that it appears in every cards at the same place when you create 
> a new
> card? And if you modify that image you don't have to copy and paste 
> hundreds
> of times? It ain't a priority but it would be cool?;-)
>
> -- 
> Beno?t Leraillez

Thomas J. McGrath III
SCS
1000 Killarney Dr.
Pittsburgh, PA 15234
412-885-8541


From rodmc at runrev.com  Thu Feb 19 18:12:30 2004
From: rodmc at runrev.com (Rod McCall)
Date: Thu, 19 Feb 2004 23:12:30 +0000
Subject: Awards?
In-Reply-To: <BC5A7874.A2F1%scott@tactilemedia.com>
References: <BC5A7874.A2F1%scott@tactilemedia.com>
Message-ID: <200402192312.30946.rodmc@runrev.com>

Hi,

Giving awards and other similar schemes are something which we have been 
working on, so I'd expect that more news will be made available in the coming 
months. 

All I can say is keep up the good work and you never know what might happen:-)

Best,

Rod

On Thursday 19 Feb 2004 10:28 pm, Scott Rossi wrote:


> It's probably a good time for Rev to start offering public awards to
> productive developers:
>
> http://maccentral.macworld.com/news/2004/02/19/realbasic/index.php?redirect
>= 1077200573000
>
> Regards,
>
> Scott Rossi
> Creative Director
> Tactile Media, Multimedia & Design
> -----
> E: scott at tactilemedia.com
> W: http://www.tactilemedia.com
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution

-- 
Dr Rod McCall
Runtime Revolution Ltd
Revolution: User-Centric Software Development
www.runrev.com


From alex at mindlube.com  Thu Feb 19 18:15:24 2004
From: alex at mindlube.com (Alex Rice)
Date: Thu, 19 Feb 2004 16:15:24 -0700
Subject: rev and languages
In-Reply-To: <BC59B5C1.3DAD5%ambassador@fourthworld.com>
References: <BC59B5C1.3DAD5%ambassador@fourthworld.com>
Message-ID: <7F4F00E6-6331-11D8-9BDA-000393C4760A@mindlube.com>


On Feb 19, 2004, at 1:37 AM, Richard Gaskin wrote:
>
> I found it thought-provoking to read such an abstract high-level 
> desription
> of the mother tongue.

"Mother tongue" eh? :-)

On the topic of scripting languages picking up different syntaxes here 
is an real interesting article about Perl 6. They are introducing a new 
syntax from the ground up, and new REGEX syntax, and a virtual machine:

<http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=620&e=15&u=/nf/23197>

--
Alex Rice | Mindlube Software | http://mindlube.com


From alex at mindlube.com  Thu Feb 19 18:20:49 2004
From: alex at mindlube.com (Alex Rice)
Date: Thu, 19 Feb 2004 16:20:49 -0700
Subject: Transcript and/or ECMA - guess who started it?
In-Reply-To: <E79B55B9-632F-11D8-A57E-000A95DA60FA@adelphia.net>
References: <6C8D906D-6310-11D8-BD71-000A9567A3E6@swcp.com>
	<E79B55B9-632F-11D8-A57E-000A95DA60FA@adelphia.net>
Message-ID: <4094FCC2-6332-11D8-9BDA-000393C4760A@mindlube.com>


On Feb 19, 2004, at 4:04 PM, Thomas McGrath III wrote:

> I just checked. If you install JavaScript OSA then it shows up in the 
> alternateLanguages in REV.
>
> So that tells me a do as javascript is in REV.

Cool!

Something that I haven't seen mentioned in this thread is the 
Javascript DOM. Being able to "do" some javascript code is once thing. 
But the real power from javascript comes from using it  in the browser 
context and doing stuff like:

browser.window.title = "starting...";
document.forms[1].textarea[3].content = "once upon a time";
(or code similar to that)

That is the javascript Document Object Model. Serious Javascripter 
would be less than enthused if this kind of thing were not available. I 
am wondering if Director has this kind of DOM for working with it's 
timelines?

--
Alex Rice | Mindlube Software | http://mindlube.com


From alex at mindlube.com  Thu Feb 19 18:32:00 2004
From: alex at mindlube.com (Alex Rice)
Date: Thu, 19 Feb 2004 16:32:00 -0700
Subject: Transcript and/or ECMA - guess who started it?
In-Reply-To: <4094FCC2-6332-11D8-9BDA-000393C4760A@mindlube.com>
References: <6C8D906D-6310-11D8-BD71-000A9567A3E6@swcp.com>
	<E79B55B9-632F-11D8-A57E-000A95DA60FA@adelphia.net>
	<4094FCC2-6332-11D8-9BDA-000393C4760A@mindlube.com>
Message-ID: <D0B7FF21-6333-11D8-9BDA-000393C4760A@mindlube.com>


On Feb 19, 2004, at 4:20 PM, Alex Rice wrote:
> That is the javascript Document Object Model. Serious Javascripter 
> would be less than enthused if this kind of thing were not available.

But overall, I'm not for Javascript. I'll stick with Transcript any day.

--
Alex Rice | Mindlube Software | http://mindlube.com


From kgjaqua1 at sbcglobal.net  Thu Feb 19 19:16:11 2004
From: kgjaqua1 at sbcglobal.net (Kathy Jaqua)
Date: Thu, 19 Feb 2004 16:16:11 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Scrolling a Card?
Message-ID: <20040220001611.75949.qmail@web80404.mail.yahoo.com>

Is it possible to scroll a card that is longer and/or
wider then the screenRect?  What property would I use?

Kathy Graves Jaqua
A Wildest Dream Software
kgjaqua1 at sbcglobal.net

From SimPLsol at aol.com  Thu Feb 19 19:18:48 2004
From: SimPLsol at aol.com (SimPLsol at aol.com)
Date: Thu, 19 Feb 2004 19:18:48 EST
Subject: [OT] Cross Mac Platform Text Editing
Message-ID: <1d8.1a71ad39.2d66ac68@aol.com>

Rob,
How are you moving the files?
I have found that using these otherwise wonderful flash card USB devices tend 
to strip the resource fork off files (especially when copying to them in 
classic).
If this is the problem, try using a crossover cable or, if both computers 
have firewire start one of them in target disk mode (restart it with the "T" key 
down, it will come up with the firewire symbol floating around the screen, the 
other computer will recognize it as just another firewire hard drive, when 
finished restart the target to turn it back into a computer again).
Paul Looney

From doug at webcrossing.com  Thu Feb 19 19:20:15 2004
From: doug at webcrossing.com (Doug Lerner)
Date: Fri, 20 Feb 2004 09:20:15 +0900
Subject: Scrolling a Card?
In-Reply-To: <20040220001611.75949.qmail@web80404.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <BC5B81CF.27680%doug@webcrossing.com>

Apparently you have to accomplish this by creating a group that is as large
as the scrolling size you want and then add scrollbars to the group. The
card itself does not scroll.

I would love to see a sample stack with this myself.

doug

On 2/20/04 9:16 AM, "Kathy Jaqua" <kgjaqua1 at sbcglobal.net> wrote:

> Is it possible to scroll a card that is longer and/or
> wider then the screenRect?  What property would I use?
> 
> Kathy Graves Jaqua
> A Wildest Dream Software
> kgjaqua1 at sbcglobal.net
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution


From kgjaqua1 at sbcglobal.net  Thu Feb 19 19:35:05 2004
From: kgjaqua1 at sbcglobal.net (Kathy Jaqua)
Date: Thu, 19 Feb 2004 16:35:05 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Scrolling a Card?
Message-ID: <20040220003505.80580.qmail@web80404.mail.yahoo.com>


Thanks Doug!

OK sooo, I would create a bottom level group larger
then the card and ... would I lose the groups that are
on the card If I scrolled them out of sight? Do they
scroll out of sight? Um :)

Kathy Graves Jaqua
A Wildest Dream Software

From doug at webcrossing.com  Thu Feb 19 19:54:56 2004
From: doug at webcrossing.com (Doug Lerner)
Date: Fri, 20 Feb 2004 09:54:56 +0900
Subject: Scrolling a Card?
In-Reply-To: <20040220003505.80580.qmail@web80404.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <BC5B89F0.27690%doug@webcrossing.com>

You got me. :)

I haven't actually tried this yet. I've been meaning to though.

All I know is what it says in the docs:

-----
You create a scrolling window by placing all the objects on the card in a
scrolling group. If you make the group the same size as the stack window,
scrolling the group causes the whole content area of the window to scroll.

To display the group?s horizontal or vertical scroll bar, set the group?s
hScrollbar or vScrollbar property to true. You can either set these
properties in a handler or the message box, or use the Basic Properties pane
in the group?s property inspector to display or hide a vertical or
horizontal scroll bar.

  Tip:  After sizing the group to fit the window, set the group?s
lockLocation property to true. This prevents it from automatically resizing
to fit the contents when you switch cards.
-----

But what confuses is me is what does it mean by "make the group the same
size as the stack window..."? If you do that, what is the scroll for?

doug

On 2/20/04 9:35 AM, "Kathy Jaqua" <kgjaqua1 at sbcglobal.net> wrote:

> 
> Thanks Doug!
> 
> OK sooo, I would create a bottom level group larger
> then the card and ... would I lose the groups that are
> on the card If I scrolled them out of sight? Do they
> scroll out of sight? Um :)
> 
> Kathy Graves Jaqua
> A Wildest Dream Software
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution


From kray at sonsothunder.com  Thu Feb 19 20:07:18 2004
From: kray at sonsothunder.com (Ken Ray)
Date: Thu, 19 Feb 2004 19:07:18 -0600
Subject: [ANN] RevZilla Bug - Quick Fix While Waiting for New Release
Message-ID: <02ec01c3f74d$e69d0b20$6601a8c0@LightningFlash>

Just an FYI to let you know that due to the fact that there are now two
products in Bugzilla (Revolution and Ten Thumbs Typing Tutor), current
versions of RevZill will not be able to retrieve the data necessary for
the Post Bug tab (all the popups will be blank). You can still use the
other tabs, however, but the Post Bug tab won't work unless you do one
of the following two things:

1) Wait until RevZilla 1.1.2 is released

  FYI, this should be in a couple of days (even though it's a quick fix,
deploying a new version takes a lot of packaging, uploading, emailing,
web-page-changing, etc.).

2) Make the change yourself

  Since RevZilla is open, you can just edit the stackScript, find the
"LoadEnterPageSrc" handler and change line 4 of that handler (the line
that starts with "put url Authenticate(...") so that the last part of
the url changes from "enter_bug.cgi" to
"enter_bug.cgi?product=Revolution". So the whole line is (watch for
wrapping):

  put url
Authenticate("http://www.runrev.com/revolution/developers/bugdatabase/en
ter_bug.cgi?product=Revolution") into tEnterPageSrc


Sorry for the inconvenience this is causing... I'll post another
announcement when RevZilla 1.1.2 is released with this fix in it.

Ken Ray
Sons of Thunder Software
Email: kray at sonsothunder.com
Web Site: http://www.sonsothunder.com/ 



From helloc66 at hotmail.com  Thu Feb 19 20:12:21 2004
From: helloc66 at hotmail.com (Jeremy Smith)
Date: Fri, 20 Feb 2004 01:12:21 +0000
Subject: Scrolling a Card?
Message-ID: <BAY10-F111h08xWI0AT00007bd8@hotmail.com>


It's really just saying set the location "size" of the group to the window 
size. Doing this
enables you to scroll the group, otherwise the group would span outside the 
stack window
without an option to scroll... It doesn't mean re-orgranize the objects 
within the group so
they all fit into the stack window.

Umm, confusing to word... I hope this makes sense :)

>From: Doug Lerner <doug at webcrossing.com>
>Reply-To: How to use Revolution <use-revolution at lists.runrev.com>
>To: How to use Revolution <use-revolution at lists.runrev.com>
>Subject: Re: Scrolling a Card?
>Date: Fri, 20 Feb 2004 09:54:56 +0900
>
>You got me. :)
>
>I haven't actually tried this yet. I've been meaning to though.
>
>All I know is what it says in the docs:
>
>-----
>You create a scrolling window by placing all the objects on the card in a
>scrolling group. If you make the group the same size as the stack window,
>scrolling the group causes the whole content area of the window to scroll.
>
>To display the group?s horizontal or vertical scroll bar, set the group?s
>hScrollbar or vScrollbar property to true. You can either set these
>properties in a handler or the message box, or use the Basic Properties 
>pane
>in the group?s property inspector to display or hide a vertical or
>horizontal scroll bar.
>
>   Tip:  After sizing the group to fit the window, set the group?s
>lockLocation property to true. This prevents it from automatically resizing
>to fit the contents when you switch cards.
>-----
>
>But what confuses is me is what does it mean by "make the group the same
>size as the stack window..."? If you do that, what is the scroll for?
>
>doug
>
>On 2/20/04 9:35 AM, "Kathy Jaqua" <kgjaqua1 at sbcglobal.net> wrote:
>
> >
> > Thanks Doug!
> >
> > OK sooo, I would create a bottom level group larger
> > then the card and ... would I lose the groups that are
> > on the card If I scrolled them out of sight? Do they
> > scroll out of sight? Um :)
> >
> > Kathy Graves Jaqua
> > A Wildest Dream Software
> > _______________________________________________
> > use-revolution mailing list
> > use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>
>_______________________________________________
>use-revolution mailing list
>use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
>http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution

_________________________________________________________________
Hot chart ringtones and polyphonics. Go to  
http://ninemsn.com.au/mobilemania/default.asp


From kray at sonsothunder.com  Thu Feb 19 20:27:17 2004
From: kray at sonsothunder.com (Ken Ray)
Date: Thu, 19 Feb 2004 19:27:17 -0600
Subject: Scrolling a Card?
In-Reply-To: <BC5B89F0.27690%doug@webcrossing.com>
Message-ID: <02f101c3f750$b0873080$6601a8c0@LightningFlash>

> But what confuses is me is what does it mean by "make the 
> group the same size as the stack window..."? If you do that, 
> what is the scroll for?

Here's an example: Let's say you want to be able to view an image that
is larger than the current card. You'll need to be able to scroll to be
able to get to the various parts of the image to view. From the user's
perspective they think they're scrolling the window, but what's really
happening is that they're scrolling the group. 

To make this happen:

1) Find/make a large image (let's say 800x600).
2) Create a stack whose size is 640x480
3) Import the image onto the card - it will (of course) be too big to
fit, but it will still be there.
4) With the image selected, group it (choose "Group Selected" from the
Object menu)
5) Then, set the rect of the group to the rect of the card ("set the
rect of group 1 to the rect of this card")
6) Open the Properties palette for the group and display the vertical
and horizontal scrollbars
7) Set the lockLocation of the group to true
8) Switch to browse mode, and you'll see that you'll be able to use the
scrollbars in the group to see the different parts of the image.

The bottom line is that if the size of the group object is *small* than
the size of the contents of the group, you can use the scrollbars of the
group to navigate within that "space". The reason for setting the
lockLocation of the group to true is that if you leave it false, the
next time you add or adjust an object that is *inside* of the group (say
with the pointer tool and "Select Grouped" turned on in the toolbar),
the group will automatically expand to a size that fits its contents. If
you set the lockLocation to true, the group will stay at whatever size
it was resized to regardless of the size of its contents.

HTH,

Ken Ray
Sons of Thunder Software
Email: kray at sonsothunder.com
Web Site: http://www.sonsothunder.com/ 



From 3mcgrath at adelphia.net  Thu Feb 19 20:29:25 2004
From: 3mcgrath at adelphia.net (Thomas McGrath III)
Date: Thu, 19 Feb 2004 20:29:25 -0500
Subject: Scrolling a Card?
In-Reply-To: <BAY10-F111h08xWI0AT00007bd8@hotmail.com>
References: <BAY10-F111h08xWI0AT00007bd8@hotmail.com>
Message-ID: <382102BC-6344-11D8-A57E-000A95DA60FA@adelphia.net>

Yeah, Plus if the original group is now larger than the card/window the 
scroll bars won't do anything SO changing the size of the larger group 
down to the window size (or what ever size you want) will make the 
scroll bars available. Then lock the group loc so it doesn't regrow on 
ya.

Tom

On Feb 19, 2004, at 8:12 PM, Jeremy Smith wrote:

>
> It's really just saying set the location "size" of the group to the 
> window size. Doing this
> enables you to scroll the group, otherwise the group would span 
> outside the stack window
> without an option to scroll... It doesn't mean re-orgranize the 
> objects within the group so
> they all fit into the stack window.
>
> Umm, confusing to word... I hope this makes sense :)
>
>> From: Doug Lerner <doug at webcrossing.com>
>> Reply-To: How to use Revolution <use-revolution at lists.runrev.com>
>> To: How to use Revolution <use-revolution at lists.runrev.com>
>> Subject: Re: Scrolling a Card?
>> Date: Fri, 20 Feb 2004 09:54:56 +0900
>>
>> You got me. :)
>>
>> I haven't actually tried this yet. I've been meaning to though.
>>
>> All I know is what it says in the docs:
>>
>> -----
>> You create a scrolling window by placing all the objects on the card 
>> in a
>> scrolling group. If you make the group the same size as the stack 
>> window,
>> scrolling the group causes the whole content area of the window to 
>> scroll.
>>
>> To display the group?s horizontal or vertical scroll bar, set the 
>> group?s
>> hScrollbar or vScrollbar property to true. You can either set these
>> properties in a handler or the message box, or use the Basic 
>> Properties pane
>> in the group?s property inspector to display or hide a vertical or
>> horizontal scroll bar.
>>
>>   Tip:  After sizing the group to fit the window, set the group?s
>> lockLocation property to true. This prevents it from automatically 
>> resizing
>> to fit the contents when you switch cards.
>> -----
>>
>> But what confuses is me is what does it mean by "make the group the 
>> same
>> size as the stack window..."? If you do that, what is the scroll for?
>>
>> doug
>>
>> On 2/20/04 9:35 AM, "Kathy Jaqua" <kgjaqua1 at sbcglobal.net> wrote:
>>
>> >
>> > Thanks Doug!
>> >
>> > OK sooo, I would create a bottom level group larger
>> > then the card and ... would I lose the groups that are
>> > on the card If I scrolled them out of sight? Do they
>> > scroll out of sight? Um :)
>> >
>> > Kathy Graves Jaqua
>> > A Wildest Dream Software
>> > _______________________________________________
>> > use-revolution mailing list
>> > use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
>> > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> use-revolution mailing list
>> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>
> _________________________________________________________________
> Hot chart ringtones and polyphonics. Go to  
> http://ninemsn.com.au/mobilemania/default.asp
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>
>

Thomas J. McGrath III
SCS
1000 Killarney Dr.
Pittsburgh, PA 15234
412-885-8541


From revolution at jaedworks.com  Thu Feb 19 20:37:39 2004
From: revolution at jaedworks.com (Jeanne A. E. DeVoto)
Date: Thu, 19 Feb 2004 17:37:39 -0800
Subject: Scrolling a Card?
In-Reply-To: <BC5B89F0.27690%doug@webcrossing.com>
References: <BC5B89F0.27690%doug@webcrossing.com>
Message-ID: <p060102a9bc5b14546e4f@[10.0.1.3]>

At 9:54 AM +0900 2/20/2004, Doug Lerner wrote:
>But what confuses is me is what does it mean by "make the group the same
>size as the stack window..."? If you do that, what is the scroll for?

The group is the same size as the window, but the content of the 
group extends beyond the group's boundaries. So when you scroll, 
you're scrolling around the (larger) contents of the group. The 
group's size - its height and width - determine the visible 
dimensions of the group, but the group can have objects that extend 
beyond its boundaries, and in this case, scrolling brings those 
objects into view.

You can experiment with this easily: create a couple of buttons in 
opposite corners of a card, group them, and turn on the group's 
scrollbars. Then resize the group so that it's small, maybe 2 inches 
by 2 inches. As you scroll around, you can make one or the other of 
the group's button's come into view.
-- 
jeanne a. e. devoto ~ jaed at jaedworks.com
http://www.jaedworks.com

From doug at webcrossing.com  Thu Feb 19 20:43:19 2004
From: doug at webcrossing.com (Doug Lerner)
Date: Fri, 20 Feb 2004 10:43:19 +0900
Subject: Scrolling a Card?
In-Reply-To: <BAY10-F111h08xWI0AT00007bd8@hotmail.com>
Message-ID: <BC5B9547.276AE%doug@webcrossing.com>

This is still confusing to me. If the location size of the group is the same
as the window size then where are controls in the group that you want to
scroll and see? Do you place them outside the rectangle of the card?

doug

On 2/20/04 10:12 AM, "Jeremy Smith" <helloc66 at hotmail.com> wrote:

> 
> It's really just saying set the location "size" of the group to the window
> size. Doing this
> enables you to scroll the group, otherwise the group would span outside the
> stack window
> without an option to scroll... It doesn't mean re-orgranize the objects
> within the group so
> they all fit into the stack window.
> 
> Umm, confusing to word... I hope this makes sense :)
> 
>> From: Doug Lerner <doug at webcrossing.com>
>> Reply-To: How to use Revolution <use-revolution at lists.runrev.com>
>> To: How to use Revolution <use-revolution at lists.runrev.com>
>> Subject: Re: Scrolling a Card?
>> Date: Fri, 20 Feb 2004 09:54:56 +0900
>> 
>> You got me. :)
>> 
>> I haven't actually tried this yet. I've been meaning to though.
>> 
>> All I know is what it says in the docs:
>> 
>> -----
>> You create a scrolling window by placing all the objects on the card in a
>> scrolling group. If you make the group the same size as the stack window,
>> scrolling the group causes the whole content area of the window to scroll.
>> 
>> To display the group?s horizontal or vertical scroll bar, set the group?s
>> hScrollbar or vScrollbar property to true. You can either set these
>> properties in a handler or the message box, or use the Basic Properties
>> pane
>> in the group?s property inspector to display or hide a vertical or
>> horizontal scroll bar.
>> 
>>   Tip:  After sizing the group to fit the window, set the group?s
>> lockLocation property to true. This prevents it from automatically resizing
>> to fit the contents when you switch cards.
>> -----
>> 
>> But what confuses is me is what does it mean by "make the group the same
>> size as the stack window..."? If you do that, what is the scroll for?
>> 
>> doug
>> 
>> On 2/20/04 9:35 AM, "Kathy Jaqua" <kgjaqua1 at sbcglobal.net> wrote:
>> 
>>> 
>>> Thanks Doug!
>>> 
>>> OK sooo, I would create a bottom level group larger
>>> then the card and ... would I lose the groups that are
>>> on the card If I scrolled them out of sight? Do they
>>> scroll out of sight? Um :)
>>> 
>>> Kathy Graves Jaqua
>>> A Wildest Dream Software
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> use-revolution mailing list
>>> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> use-revolution mailing list
>> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
> 
> _________________________________________________________________
> Hot chart ringtones and polyphonics. Go to
> http://ninemsn.com.au/mobilemania/default.asp
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution


From doug at webcrossing.com  Thu Feb 19 20:53:28 2004
From: doug at webcrossing.com (Doug Lerner)
Date: Fri, 20 Feb 2004 10:53:28 +0900
Subject: Scrolling a Card?
In-Reply-To: <02f101c3f750$b0873080$6601a8c0@LightningFlash>
Message-ID: <BC5B97A8.276AF%doug@webcrossing.com>

Thanks, Ken. That is a pretty good explanation. I will try some experiments.

Thanks!

doug

On 2/20/04 10:27 AM, "Ken Ray" <kray at sonsothunder.com> wrote:

>> But what confuses is me is what does it mean by "make the
>> group the same size as the stack window..."? If you do that,
>> what is the scroll for?
> 
> Here's an example: Let's say you want to be able to view an image that
> is larger than the current card. You'll need to be able to scroll to be
> able to get to the various parts of the image to view. From the user's
> perspective they think they're scrolling the window, but what's really
> happening is that they're scrolling the group.
> 
> To make this happen:
> 
> 1) Find/make a large image (let's say 800x600).
> 2) Create a stack whose size is 640x480
> 3) Import the image onto the card - it will (of course) be too big to
> fit, but it will still be there.
> 4) With the image selected, group it (choose "Group Selected" from the
> Object menu)
> 5) Then, set the rect of the group to the rect of the card ("set the
> rect of group 1 to the rect of this card")
> 6) Open the Properties palette for the group and display the vertical
> and horizontal scrollbars
> 7) Set the lockLocation of the group to true
> 8) Switch to browse mode, and you'll see that you'll be able to use the
> scrollbars in the group to see the different parts of the image.
> 
> The bottom line is that if the size of the group object is *small* than
> the size of the contents of the group, you can use the scrollbars of the
> group to navigate within that "space". The reason for setting the
> lockLocation of the group to true is that if you leave it false, the
> next time you add or adjust an object that is *inside* of the group (say
> with the pointer tool and "Select Grouped" turned on in the toolbar),
> the group will automatically expand to a size that fits its contents. If
> you set the lockLocation to true, the group will stay at whatever size
> it was resized to regardless of the size of its contents.
> 
> HTH,
> 
> Ken Ray
> Sons of Thunder Software
> Email: kray at sonsothunder.com
> Web Site: http://www.sonsothunder.com/
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution


From James.Cass at sealedair.com  Thu Feb 19 21:04:41 2004
From: James.Cass at sealedair.com (James.Cass at sealedair.com)
Date: Thu, 19 Feb 2004 21:04:41 -0500
Subject: Drag-n-drop Time Out & Rev Freeze
In-Reply-To: <02c301c3f737$4e7eca60$6601a8c0@LightningFlash>
Message-ID: <OF66E02891.EC3A876A-ON85256E40.000A0D0C-85256E40.000C132A@sealedair.com>

Thanks for the feedback, Ken.  Maybe this would help explain my situation. 
 Here's a distilled version of my problem:

--begin--
--add this code to the script of a scrolling list field--

on dragEnter
  set the acceptDrop to true
end dragEnter

on dragDrop
  put the dragData into myFiles
  answer "You dropped these items on me:" & cr & cr & myFiles
end dragDrop

--end--

I'm running MacOSX (10.3.2).  If you drag one or more files to the field 
and wait 20 secs, you'll see ghosts of the dragged files zoom back to 
their source.  At that point I cannot click on the OK of the answer 
dialog.  Sometimes I can press return to answer "OK", but sometimes Rev is 
completely frozen and must be forced to quit.  The feedback the user's 
will see in the "real" answer dialog will be showing them files that could 
not be processed because they have invalid file names.  There is a very 
good chance the user will take longer than 20 secs to read this 
information.

Thanks in advance...James






"Ken Ray" <kray at sonsothunder.com>
Sent by: use-revolution-bounces at lists.runrev.com
02/19/04 05:25 PM
Please respond to kray; Please respond to How to use Revolution
 
        To:     "'How to use Revolution'" 
<use-revolution at lists.runrev.com>
        cc: 
        Subject:        RE: Drag-n-drop Time Out & Rev Freeze


Well, you could accept the file names from the drop and store them in a
variable (don't put them in a field), and *then* bring up your answer
dialogs. If everything's OK, you use the data in the variable; if not,
you ditch it.

Ken Ray
Sons of Thunder Software
Email: kray at sonsothunder.com
Web Site: http://www.sonsothunder.com/

> -----Original Message-----
> From: use-revolution-bounces at lists.runrev.com
> [mailto:use-revolution-bounces at lists.runrev.com] On Behalf Of
> James.Cass at sealedair.com
> Sent: Thursday, February 19, 2004 3:56 PM
> To: How to use Revolution
> Subject: Drag-n-drop Time Out & Rev Freeze
>
>
> Here's what happens:
>
> 1.  I drag some files from the OS (Mac OS X) to a drag-n-drop enabled
> field.
> 2.  I have answer dialogs during the Drag-n-drop handler to
> give feedback
> to the user.
> 3.  If the answer dialogs are not answered within 20 seconds, the
> Drag-n-Drop times out and freezes Revolution.
>
> Has anyone encountered this problem and come up with a fix?
>
> Thanks in advance....James
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-> revolution
>


_______________________________________________
use-revolution mailing list
use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution

From scott at tactilemedia.com  Thu Feb 19 21:19:15 2004
From: scott at tactilemedia.com (Scott Rossi)
Date: Thu, 19 Feb 2004 18:19:15 -0800
Subject: Scrolling a Card?
In-Reply-To: <BC5B9547.276AE%doug@webcrossing.com>
Message-ID: <BC5AAEA3.A444%scott@tactilemedia.com>

On 2/19/04 5:43 PM, "Doug Lerner" <doug at webcrossing.com> wrote:

> This is still confusing to me. If the location size of the group is the same
> as the window size then where are controls in the group that you want to
> scroll and see? Do you place them outside the rectangle of the card?

Place them wherever you want, outside the group (not outside the card).

At the risk of confusing you more, you can see an example of a scrolling
group (albeit without the scrollbars) in the demo stack below.  Paste the
following line in your message box:

 go url "http://www.tactilemedia.com/download/tiletest.rev"

The tile grid scrolls in 8 directions.  A brief explanation is included.

Regards,

Scott Rossi
Creative Director
Tactile Media, Development & Design
-----
E: scott at tactilemedia.com
W: http://www.tactilemedia.com


From nnoydb at excite.com  Thu Feb 19 21:22:04 2004
From: nnoydb at excite.com (Kevin)
Date: Thu, 19 Feb 2004 21:22:04 -0500 (EST)
Subject: Variable arguements
Message-ID: <20040220022204.4B5A9B710@xprdmailfe17.nwk.excite.com>


 
In the Runtime Revolution Transcript Dictionary lookup:

[param]

Returns the specified parameter passed to the current handler.

the param of parameterNumber
param(parameterNumber)

param(3) -- returns the third parameter
param(0) -- returns the handler name

Use the param function within a handler to get the value of a parameter when you don?t know in advance how many parameters will be passed to the handler.

[paramCount]

Returns the number of parameters passed to the current handler.

the paramCount
paramCount()

the paramCount
repeat with thisParam = 1 to the paramCount

Use the paramCount function to find out how many parameters were passed to the current handler.

[params]

Returns all the parameters passed to the current handler.

the params
params()

the params
put char 2 to -2 of word 1 of the params into handlerName

Use the params function within a handler to get the parameters that were passed to the handler.


If you have any more questions feel free to email me directly.

Kevin



--- On Thu 02/19, Erik Hansen < erikhans08 at yahoo.com > wrote:
From: Erik Hansen [mailto: erikhans08 at yahoo.com]
To: nnoydb at excite.com, use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
Date: Thu, 19 Feb 2004 12:39:10 -0800 (PST)
Subject: RE: Variable arguements

--- Kevin <nnoydb at excite.com> wrote:<br>&gt; <br>&gt; Please ignore I found it. Just looking in wrong<br>&gt; place. <br><br>want to share it?<br><br>=====<br>erik at erikhansen.org    http://www.erikhansen.org<br><br>__________________________________<br>Do you Yahoo!?<br>Yahoo! Mail SpamGuard - Read only the mail you want.<br>http://antispam.yahoo.com/tools<br>

_______________________________________________
Join Excite! - http://www.excite.com
The most personalized portal on the Web!

From doug at webcrossing.com  Thu Feb 19 21:22:28 2004
From: doug at webcrossing.com (Doug Lerner)
Date: Fri, 20 Feb 2004 11:22:28 +0900
Subject: Scrolling a Card?
In-Reply-To: <BC5AAEA3.A444%scott@tactilemedia.com>
Message-ID: <BC5B9E74.276C7%doug@webcrossing.com>

Thanks. I'll try that!

doug

On 2/20/04 11:19 AM, "Scott Rossi" <scott at tactilemedia.com> wrote:

> On 2/19/04 5:43 PM, "Doug Lerner" <doug at webcrossing.com> wrote:
> 
>> This is still confusing to me. If the location size of the group is the same
>> as the window size then where are controls in the group that you want to
>> scroll and see? Do you place them outside the rectangle of the card?
> 
> Place them wherever you want, outside the group (not outside the card).
> 
> At the risk of confusing you more, you can see an example of a scrolling
> group (albeit without the scrollbars) in the demo stack below.  Paste the
> following line in your message box:
> 
> go url "http://www.tactilemedia.com/download/tiletest.rev"
> 
> The tile grid scrolls in 8 directions.  A brief explanation is included.
> 
> Regards,
> 
> Scott Rossi
> Creative Director
> Tactile Media, Development & Design
> -----
> E: scott at tactilemedia.com
> W: http://www.tactilemedia.com
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution


From kgjaqua1 at sbcglobal.net  Thu Feb 19 21:23:31 2004
From: kgjaqua1 at sbcglobal.net (Kathy Jaqua)
Date: Thu, 19 Feb 2004 18:23:31 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Scrolling a Card ?
Message-ID: <20040220022331.92787.qmail@web80410.mail.yahoo.com>

This is a good start thanks Jeanne & Ken! 
You have saved me a week!

Kathy Graves Jaqua
A Wildest Dream Software

From gizmotron at earthlink.net  Thu Feb 19 21:40:42 2004
From: gizmotron at earthlink.net (Mark Brownell)
Date: Thu, 19 Feb 2004 18:40:42 -0800
Subject: Windows Application Icon
In-Reply-To: <40351ECF.2090405@chipp.com>
Message-ID: <2D6AFF22-634E-11D8-995F-000A95859272@earthlink.net>


On Thursday, February 19, 2004, at 12:38  PM, Chipp Walters wrote:

> Hi Mark,
>
> Just a lame question, but are you *sure* XP will work with 4 char 
> extensions?
>
> -Chipp

I haven't tested for that... the registry is loaded with four char 
extensions though. I did notice that when I forced recognition or my 
auto installer did the install something changed my defaultIcon value 
to 0 from 1 after  adding those two extra hex values.

still searching  & testing ...

Mark


From pixelbird at interisland.net  Thu Feb 19 21:49:39 2004
From: pixelbird at interisland.net (Ken Norris)
Date: Thu, 19 Feb 2004 18:49:39 -0800
Subject: Scrolling a Card?
In-Reply-To: <20040220002100.DF8C8930100@mail.runrev.com>
Message-ID: <BC5AB5C3.5157%pixelbird@interisland.net>

Howdy,

> Date: Fri, 20 Feb 2004 09:20:15 +0900
> From: Doug Lerner <doug at webcrossing.com>
> Subject: Re: Scrolling a Card?
> 
> Apparently you have to accomplish this by creating a group that is as large
> as the scrolling size you want and then add scrollbars to the group. The
> card itself does not scroll.
> 
> I would love to see a sample stack with this myself.
------------
I haven't tried this in Rev yet. I know how I expected it work, but it
didn't.

I made my card content into a group. In my experiment, I just imported an
oversize image, grouped it, and clicked on the Horiz and Vert scrollbar
checkboxes of the group, expecting it to automate the process, but...

The "spaces" where the scrollbars should be showed up _outside_ the edge of
the group instead of _inside_ the window, and there are no actual scrollbars
in them.

It lost all intuitiveness. Now what do we do?

Ken N.


From pixelbird at interisland.net  Thu Feb 19 21:52:42 2004
From: pixelbird at interisland.net (Ken Norris)
Date: Thu, 19 Feb 2004 18:52:42 -0800
Subject: Downloads aren't rev files
In-Reply-To: <20040220002100.DF8C8930100@mail.runrev.com>
Message-ID: <BC5AB67A.5158%pixelbird@interisland.net>

Howdy,

Lately about half the files I D/L from the Developer Central show up with
.rev extensions, but don't have Rev icons and won't open at all.

Anyone know what's going on?

Ken N.


From kray at sonsothunder.com  Thu Feb 19 21:50:22 2004
From: kray at sonsothunder.com (Ken Ray)
Date: Thu, 19 Feb 2004 20:50:22 -0600
Subject: Drag-n-drop Time Out & Rev Freeze
In-Reply-To: <OF66E02891.EC3A876A-ON85256E40.000A0D0C-85256E40.000C132A@sealedair.com>
Message-ID: <030c01c3f75c$4ce1bc60$6601a8c0@LightningFlash>

So how about this:

on dragEnter
  set the acceptDrop to true
end dragEnter

on dragDrop
  set the droppedFiles of me to the dragData
  send "NotifyUser" to me in 20 milliseconds
end dragDrop

on NotifyUser
  answer "You dropped these items on me:" & cr & cr & (the droppedFiles
of me)
end NotifyUser


That should work...

Ken Ray
Sons of Thunder Software
Email: kray at sonsothunder.com
Web Site: http://www.sonsothunder.com/ 

> Thanks for the feedback, Ken.  Maybe this would help explain 
> my situation. 
>  Here's a distilled version of my problem:
> 
> --begin--
> --add this code to the script of a scrolling list field--
> 
> on dragEnter
>   set the acceptDrop to true
> end dragEnter
> 
> on dragDrop
>   put the dragData into myFiles
>   answer "You dropped these items on me:" & cr & cr & myFiles 
> end dragDrop
> 
> --end--
> 
> I'm running MacOSX (10.3.2).  If you drag one or more files 
> to the field 
> and wait 20 secs, you'll see ghosts of the dragged files zoom back to 
> their source.  At that point I cannot click on the OK of the answer 
> dialog.  Sometimes I can press return to answer "OK", but 
> sometimes Rev is 
> completely frozen and must be forced to quit.  The feedback 
> the user's 
> will see in the "real" answer dialog will be showing them 
> files that could 
> not be processed because they have invalid file names.  There 
> is a very 
> good chance the user will take longer than 20 secs to read this 
> information.
> 
> Thanks in advance...James
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> "Ken Ray" <kray at sonsothunder.com>
> Sent by: use-revolution-bounces at lists.runrev.com
> 02/19/04 05:25 PM
> Please respond to kray; Please respond to How to use Revolution
>  
>         To:     "'How to use Revolution'" 
> <use-revolution at lists.runrev.com>
>         cc: 
>         Subject:        RE: Drag-n-drop Time Out & Rev Freeze
> 
> 
> Well, you could accept the file names from the drop and store 
> them in a variable (don't put them in a field), and *then* 
> bring up your answer dialogs. If everything's OK, you use the 
> data in the variable; if not, you ditch it.
> 
> Ken Ray
> Sons of Thunder Software
> Email: kray at sonsothunder.com
> Web Site: http://www.sonsothunder.com/
> 
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: use-revolution-bounces at lists.runrev.com
> > [mailto:use-revolution-bounces at lists.runrev.com] On Behalf Of 
> > James.Cass at sealedair.com
> > Sent: Thursday, February 19, 2004 3:56 PM
> > To: How to use Revolution
> > Subject: Drag-n-drop Time Out & Rev Freeze
> >
> >
> > Here's what happens:
> >
> > 1.  I drag some files from the OS (Mac OS X) to a 
> drag-n-drop enabled 
> > field. 2.  I have answer dialogs during the Drag-n-drop handler to
> > give feedback
> > to the user.
> > 3.  If the answer dialogs are not answered within 20 seconds, the
> > Drag-n-Drop times out and freezes Revolution.
> >
> > Has anyone encountered this problem and come up with a fix?
> >
> > Thanks in advance....James 
> > _______________________________________________
> > use-revolution mailing list
> > use-revolution at lists.runrev.com 
> > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-> revolution
> >
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com 
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-> revolution
> 
> _______________________________________________
> 
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com 
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-> revolution
> 



From pixelbird at interisland.net  Thu Feb 19 21:59:04 2004
From: pixelbird at interisland.net (Ken Norris)
Date: Thu, 19 Feb 2004 18:59:04 -0800
Subject: Scrolling a Card?
In-Reply-To: <20040220015405.DD71E93011B@mail.runrev.com>
Message-ID: <BC5AB7F8.5160%pixelbird@interisland.net>

Hi Ken,

> Date: Thu, 19 Feb 2004 19:27:17 -0600
> From: "Ken Ray" <kray at sonsothunder.com>
> Subject: RE: Scrolling a Card?

> 5) Then, set the rect of the group to the rect of the card ("set the
> rect of group 1 to the rect of this card")

> 7) Set the lockLocation of the group to true
------------
These two got it for me, dunno about others...

Thanks.

Ken N.


From sarahr at genesearch.com.au  Thu Feb 19 22:17:36 2004
From: sarahr at genesearch.com.au (Sarah Reichelt)
Date: Fri, 20 Feb 2004 13:17:36 +1000
Subject: Downloads aren't rev files
In-Reply-To: <BC5AB67A.5158%pixelbird@interisland.net>
References: <BC5AB67A.5158%pixelbird@interisland.net>
Message-ID: <54FD0F24-6353-11D8-BAB5-0003937A97B8@genesearch.com.au>

Hi Ken,
That will be because they don't have their filetype & creator set 
correctly for a Mac. At my web page: http://www.troz.net/Rev/ look for 
RevDroplet which is an AppleScript droplet to set those properties for 
a Rev stack. Just unzip the applet and drop the rev files on to it. The 
correct icon should appear and double-clciking should then open them in 
Rev.

Cheers,
Sarah

On 20 Feb 2004, at 12:54 pm, Ken Norris wrote:

> Howdy,
>
> Lately about half the files I D/L from the Developer Central show up 
> with
> rev extensions, but don't have Rev icons and won't open at all.
>
> Anyone know what's going on?
>
> Ken N.


From cassj at earthlink.net  Thu Feb 19 22:26:53 2004
From: cassj at earthlink.net (James Cass)
Date: Thu, 19 Feb 2004 22:26:53 -0500
Subject: Drag-n-drop Time Out & Rev Freeze
In-Reply-To: <030c01c3f75c$4ce1bc60$6601a8c0@LightningFlash>
References: <030c01c3f75c$4ce1bc60$6601a8c0@LightningFlash>
Message-ID: <A0B27D98-6354-11D8-A670-000393738BF6@earthlink.net>

Excellent!  That did it.
Thank you very much, Ken!

-James

On Feb 19, 2004, at 9:50 PM, Ken Ray wrote:

> So how about this:
>
> on dragEnter
>   set the acceptDrop to true
> end dragEnter
>
> on dragDrop
>   set the droppedFiles of me to the dragData
>   send "NotifyUser" to me in 20 milliseconds
> end dragDrop
>
> on NotifyUser
>   answer "You dropped these items on me:" & cr & cr & (the droppedFiles
> of me)
> end NotifyUser
>
>
> That should work...
>
> Ken Ray
> Sons of Thunder Software
> Email: kray at sonsothunder.com
> Web Site: http://www.sonsothunder.com/
>
>> Thanks for the feedback, Ken.  Maybe this would help explain
>> my situation.
>>  Here's a distilled version of my problem:
>>
>> --begin--
>> --add this code to the script of a scrolling list field--
>>
>> on dragEnter
>>   set the acceptDrop to true
>> end dragEnter
>>
>> on dragDrop
>>   put the dragData into myFiles
>>   answer "You dropped these items on me:" & cr & cr & myFiles
>> end dragDrop
>>
>> --end--
>>
>> I'm running MacOSX (10.3.2).  If you drag one or more files
>> to the field
>> and wait 20 secs, you'll see ghosts of the dragged files zoom back to
>> their source.  At that point I cannot click on the OK of the answer
>> dialog.  Sometimes I can press return to answer "OK", but
>> sometimes Rev is
>> completely frozen and must be forced to quit.  The feedback
>> the user's
>> will see in the "real" answer dialog will be showing them
>> files that could
>> not be processed because they have invalid file names.  There
>> is a very
>> good chance the user will take longer than 20 secs to read this
>> information.
>>
>> Thanks in advance...James
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> "Ken Ray" <kray at sonsothunder.com>
>> Sent by: use-revolution-bounces at lists.runrev.com
>> 02/19/04 05:25 PM
>> Please respond to kray; Please respond to How to use Revolution
>>
>>         To:     "'How to use Revolution'"
>> <use-revolution at lists.runrev.com>
>>         cc:
>>         Subject:        RE: Drag-n-drop Time Out & Rev Freeze
>>
>>
>> Well, you could accept the file names from the drop and store
>> them in a variable (don't put them in a field), and *then*
>> bring up your answer dialogs. If everything's OK, you use the
>> data in the variable; if not, you ditch it.
>>
>> Ken Ray
>> Sons of Thunder Software
>> Email: kray at sonsothunder.com
>> Web Site: http://www.sonsothunder.com/
>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: use-revolution-bounces at lists.runrev.com
>>> [mailto:use-revolution-bounces at lists.runrev.com] On Behalf Of
>>> James.Cass at sealedair.com
>>> Sent: Thursday, February 19, 2004 3:56 PM
>>> To: How to use Revolution
>>> Subject: Drag-n-drop Time Out & Rev Freeze
>>>
>>>
>>> Here's what happens:
>>>
>>> 1.  I drag some files from the OS (Mac OS X) to a
>> drag-n-drop enabled
>>> field. 2.  I have answer dialogs during the Drag-n-drop handler to
>>> give feedback
>>> to the user.
>>> 3.  If the answer dialogs are not answered within 20 seconds, the
>>> Drag-n-Drop times out and freezes Revolution.
>>>
>>> Has anyone encountered this problem and come up with a fix?
>>>
>>> Thanks in advance....James
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> use-revolution mailing list
>>> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-> revolution
>>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> use-revolution mailing list
>> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-> revolution
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>>
>> use-revolution mailing list
>> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-> revolution
>>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>


From jacque at hyperactivesw.com  Thu Feb 19 23:00:50 2004
From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay)
Date: Thu, 19 Feb 2004 22:00:50 -0600
Subject: Downloads aren't rev files
In-Reply-To: <BC5AB67A.5158%pixelbird@interisland.net>
References: <BC5AB67A.5158%pixelbird@interisland.net>
Message-ID: <40358672.10007@hyperactivesw.com>

On 2/19/04 8:52 PM, Ken Norris wrote:

> Howdy,
> 
> Lately about half the files I D/L from the Developer Central show up with
> .rev extensions, but don't have Rev icons and won't open at all.
> 
> Anyone know what's going on?

No creator/type codes are set for those files. Hold down the Option key 
while choosing "Open stack" from the File menu and they should open. If 
you save the stack from within Rev after that, they will be assigned 
type/creator codes and will open normally after that.

Sarah's droplet is another good solution, but I just discovered this tip 
and it saves a step.

-- 
Jacqueline Landman Gay         |     jacque at hyperactivesw.com
HyperActive Software           |     http://www.hyperactivesw.com

From RGould8 at aol.com  Fri Feb 20 00:17:12 2004
From: RGould8 at aol.com (RGould8 at aol.com)
Date: Fri, 20 Feb 2004 00:17:12 EST
Subject: revGoURL and https://
Message-ID: <ca.27f33084.2d66f258@aol.com>

If I use the revGoURL command to launch the user's default web-browser to  an 
http:// address, the command works fine, however, if I try to launch an  
https:// address, the browser never launches.  This is on Mac OS X  10.3.
Does this happen for anyone else?  Anyone know if there's a  workaround?

From pixelbird at interisland.net  Fri Feb 20 00:17:40 2004
From: pixelbird at interisland.net (Ken Norris)
Date: Thu, 19 Feb 2004 21:17:40 -0800
Subject: Scrolling a Card?
In-Reply-To: <20040220015405.DD71E93011B@mail.runrev.com>
Message-ID: <BC5AD874.5161%pixelbird@interisland.net>

Hello,

> Date: Fri, 20 Feb 2004 01:12:21 +0000
> From: "Jeremy Smith" <helloc66 at hotmail.com>
> Subject: Re: Scrolling a Card?

> It's really just saying set the location "size" of the group to the window
> size. Doing this
> enables you to scroll the group, otherwise the group would span outside the
> stack window
> without an option to scroll... It doesn't mean re-orgranize the objects
> within the group so
> they all fit into the stack window.
------------
But the problem appears to be that you can't return the scroll values of the
group, because it doesn't really move. Only the "content" of the card moves,
and there doesn't appear to be a way of retrieving that value.

If you return, say, the loc of the group _or_ the card when the view
provided by moving the scrollbars change, they don't change with it

What is the object actually being moved, and how do we retrieve its scroll
values or location?

Ken N.


From pixelbird at interisland.net  Fri Feb 20 00:39:20 2004
From: pixelbird at interisland.net (Ken Norris)
Date: Thu, 19 Feb 2004 21:39:20 -0800
Subject: Downloads aren't rev files
In-Reply-To: <20040220031830.8229593013F@mail.runrev.com>
Message-ID: <BC5ADD88.5164%pixelbird@interisland.net>

Hi Sarah,

> Date: Fri, 20 Feb 2004 13:17:36 +1000
> From: Sarah Reichelt <sarahr at genesearch.com.au>
> Subject: Re: Downloads aren't rev files

> That will be because they don't have their filetype & creator set
> correctly for a Mac. At my web page: http://www.troz.net/Rev/ look for
> RevDroplet which is an AppleScript droplet to set those properties for
> a Rev stack. Just unzip the applet and drop the rev files on to it. The
> correct icon should appear and double-clciking should then open them in
> Rev.

Thank you,
Ken N.


From kray at sonsothunder.com  Fri Feb 20 00:41:48 2004
From: kray at sonsothunder.com (Ken Ray)
Date: Thu, 19 Feb 2004 23:41:48 -0600
Subject: Scrolling a Card?
In-Reply-To: <BC5AD874.5161%pixelbird@interisland.net>
Message-ID: <032201c3f774$3fbb4390$6601a8c0@LightningFlash>

> But the problem appears to be that you can't return the 
> scroll values of the group, because it doesn't really move. 
> Only the "content" of the card moves, and there doesn't 
> appear to be a way of retrieving that value.

Actually, you can ask for the scroll (or hScroll or vScroll) of the
group object and get a value. The objects actually do move, so if the
hScroll of the group is 100 pixels, the loc of all the objects inside
the group has moved 100 pixels. So basically when the hScroll is 0 and
the vScroll is 0, all the objects are in their original locations.

I hope this helps,

Ken Ray
Sons of Thunder Software
Email: kray at sonsothunder.com
Web Site: http://www.sonsothunder.com/ 



From alex at mindlube.com  Fri Feb 20 00:52:10 2004
From: alex at mindlube.com (Alex Rice)
Date: Thu, 19 Feb 2004 22:52:10 -0700
Subject: revGoURL and https://
In-Reply-To: <ca.27f33084.2d66f258@aol.com>
References: <ca.27f33084.2d66f258@aol.com>
Message-ID: <EC6A7967-6368-11D8-A74D-000393C4760A@mindlube.com>


On Feb 19, 2004, at 10:17 PM, RGould8 at aol.com wrote:

> If I use the revGoURL command to launch the user's default web-browser 
> to  an
> http:// address, the command works fine, however, if I try to launch an
> https:// address, the browser never launches.  This is on Mac OS X  
> 10.3.
> Does this happen for anyone else?  Anyone know if there's a  
> workaround?

I did a revGoURL "https://..." test and it worked OK. OS X 10.3, Safari 
as default web browser.

An alternate method/workaround could be

get shell("open https://...")

--
Alex Rice | Mindlube Software | http://mindlube.com


From tuviah at runrev.com  Fri Feb 20 00:54:01 2004
From: tuviah at runrev.com (tuviah snyder)
Date: Fri, 20 Feb 2004 00:54:01 -0500
Subject: Transcript and/or ECMA - guess who started it?
References: <20040219205347.89D729300B2@mail.runrev.com>
Message-ID: <00d201c3f775$f0f358e0$1602a8c0@USER>

> Date: Thu, 19 Feb 2004 18:52:07 +0000
> From: Dave Cragg <dcragg at lacscentre.co.uk>
> Subject: Re: Transcript and/or ECMA - guess who started it?
> To: <use-revolution at lists.runrev.com>
> Message-ID: <p0602041abc5ab11e2bc8@[192.168.123.7]>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed"
>
> At 12:27 pm -0500 19/2/04, tuviah snyder wrote:
> >>  If the "do" languages were to be expanded beyond AppleScript, I think
> >>  Javascript should be high on the list of priorities.
> >
> >It is supported. See the alternatelanguages function.
>
> But this is Mac only, right? (And is there a Javascript option for this?)
If javascript is installed as an OSA language it will show up in the
alternatelanguages function. You can then use do x as javascript..I tested
this when implementing it 2-3 years ago.

Tuviah


From terry at discovery.nl  Fri Feb 20 01:50:21 2004
From: terry at discovery.nl (Terry Vogelaar)
Date: Fri, 20 Feb 2004 07:50:21 +0100
Subject: ArrowKey only sent if text cursor is in a field?
Message-ID: <0DA504B6-6371-11D8-B38C-0030656FD666@discovery.nl>

Hi all,

I'm working on a multimedia app that requires that is controlled by 
arrow keys. To my surprise, there is only an arrowKey msg sent when the 
text cursor is in a field. According to the docs and my memory, it 
shouldn't make a difference, but it does.

Is this a bug or am I overlooking something here?

(RR version 2.0.3)

Terry


From sarahr at genesearch.com.au  Fri Feb 20 02:07:58 2004
From: sarahr at genesearch.com.au (Sarah Reichelt)
Date: Fri, 20 Feb 2004 17:07:58 +1000
Subject: ArrowKey only sent if text cursor is in a field?
In-Reply-To: <0DA504B6-6371-11D8-B38C-0030656FD666@discovery.nl>
References: <0DA504B6-6371-11D8-B38C-0030656FD666@discovery.nl>
Message-ID: <83617815-6373-11D8-BAB5-0003937A97B8@genesearch.com.au>

Check the textArrows and navigationArrows settings and docs. There are 
various oddities there, but you could always bypass them all by 
trapping rawKeyDown instead of the arrowKey message. You would need to 
find out the code for the various arrowKeys that gets sent to 
rawKeyDown (or Up) and then act on that instead of allowing any of the 
built-in arrowKey handlers to get in the way.

Cheers,
Sarah
sarahr at genesearch.com.au
http://www.troz.net/Rev/

On 20 Feb 2004, at 4:51 pm, Terry Vogelaar wrote:

> Hi all,
>
> I'm working on a multimedia app that requires that is controlled by 
> arrow keys. To my surprise, there is only an arrowKey msg sent when 
> the text cursor is in a field. According to the docs and my memory, it 
> shouldn't make a difference, but it does.
>
> Is this a bug or am I overlooking something here?
>
> (RR version 2.0.3)
>
> Terry
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>
>
>


From sarahr at genesearch.com.au  Fri Feb 20 02:12:38 2004
From: sarahr at genesearch.com.au (Sarah Reichelt)
Date: Fri, 20 Feb 2004 17:12:38 +1000
Subject: [ANN] UnixCal - Mac OS X only
Message-ID: <2A91932C-6374-11D8-BAB5-0003937A97B8@genesearch.com.au>

I found out that the FreeBSD basis for OS X includes a Terminal app 
called calendar, that reads a set of calendar files buried deep in the 
system. They are mainly lists of things that happened on this day.. or 
public holidays, as well as a few funny groups like dates of major 
events in the Lord of the Rings!

Anyway, I decided it would be fun to have a Revolution front-end to 
display this data, since I wasn't going to wade through the Terminal 
every day to check it! If anyone is interested, both the app and the 
stack file are available at: http://www.troz.net/

This is Mac OS X only, and I haven't tested it on anything other than 
10.3.2 but it is possible that it would run on Unix/Linux if they have 
the calendar files and they are stored in the same folders. If anyone 
proves or disproves this, please let me know.

Have fun,
Sarah
sarahr at genesearch.com.au
http://www.troz.net/Rev/


From pixelbird at interisland.net  Fri Feb 20 02:15:43 2004
From: pixelbird at interisland.net (Ken Norris)
Date: Thu, 19 Feb 2004 23:15:43 -0800
Subject: Downloads aren't rev files
In-Reply-To: <20040220071315.6B26193015E@mail.runrev.com>
Message-ID: <BC5AF41F.516B%pixelbird@interisland.net>

Thanks Jacque!! I think I did it that way before and forgot.

> Date: Thu, 19 Feb 2004 22:00:50 -0600
> From: "J. Landman Gay" <jacque at hyperactivesw.com>
> Subject: Re: Downloads aren't rev files

> No creator/type codes are set for those files. Hold down the Option key
> while choosing "Open stack" from the File menu and they should open. If
> you save the stack from within Rev after that, they will be assigned
> type/creator codes and will open normally after that.
------------
Ken N.


From erikhans08 at yahoo.com  Fri Feb 20 03:28:29 2004
From: erikhans08 at yahoo.com (Erik Hansen)
Date: Fri, 20 Feb 2004 00:28:29 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Downloads aren't rev files
In-Reply-To: <54FD0F24-6353-11D8-BAB5-0003937A97B8@genesearch.com.au>
Message-ID: <20040220082829.83393.qmail@web61110.mail.yahoo.com>


--- Sarah Reichelt <sarahr at genesearch.com.au>
wrote:
> Hi Ken,
> That will be because they don't have their
> filetype & creator set 
> correctly for a Mac. At my web page:
> http://www.troz.net/Rev/ look for 
> RevDroplet which is an AppleScript droplet to
> set those properties for 
> a Rev stack. Just unzip the applet and drop the
> rev files on to it. The 
> correct icon should appear and double-clciking
should then open them in Rev.

worked for me.

=====
erik at erikhansen.org    http://www.erikhansen.org

__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Mail SpamGuard - Read only the mail you want.
http://antispam.yahoo.com/tools

From psahores at easynet.fr  Fri Feb 20 04:18:37 2004
From: psahores at easynet.fr (Pierre Sahores)
Date: Fri, 20 Feb 2004 10:18:37 +0100
Subject: Yes, I'm back
In-Reply-To: <026f01c3f714$a6c598c0$6601a8c0@LightningFlash>
References: <026f01c3f714$a6c598c0$6601a8c0@LightningFlash>
Message-ID: <C3942144-6385-11D8-907F-000A95C61E96@easynet.fr>

Welcome Home, Heather !  Nice to see you back on stage ;-)

Kind Regards, Pierre

>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: use-revolution-bounces at lists.runrev.com
>> [mailto:use-revolution-bounces at lists.runrev.com] On Behalf Of
>> Heather Nagey
>> Sent: Thursday, February 19, 2004 5:36 AM
>> To: use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
>> Subject: Yes, I'm back
>>
>> Thank you :)
>>
>> Thanks also to all the people who sent goodwill messages, I
>> really appreciate them.
>>
>> Most of all, a huge vote of thanks to Jacque and to Graham
>> Samuels, who voluntarily pitched in and took over the
>> fearsome support workload while I was unwell.
>>
>> As most of you are probably already aware, a great new
>> centralized support system has been devised while I was away,
>> this should mean an end to unacceptable delays in response
>> times when one or other staff member is out of action for
>> whatever reason. Support email on virtually all subjects
>> should now be sent to support at runrev.com, where it will be
>> sorted into the appropriate queue and the best person to
>> answer it can pick it out and respond in a timely manner.
>> This is such a wondrous improvement, I think I should get
>> sick more often!
>>
>> Anyway, greetings one and all, its great to be back and
>> watching the lists once more,
>>
>> Heather
>> (checking the list admin hat still fits... Yep, a bit dusty
>> but undented...)
>> -- 
>> Heather Nagey ~ heather at runrev.com ~ http://www.runrev.com/
>> Runtime Revolution - User-Centric Development Tools Tel +44
>> (0) 131 7184333 Fax +44 (0) 845 4588487 ~~~ Check our web
>> site for new Revolution editions & special offers ~~~
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> use-revolution mailing list
>> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-> revolution


From revolution at jaedworks.com  Fri Feb 20 01:04:42 2004
From: revolution at jaedworks.com (Jeanne A. E. DeVoto)
Date: Thu, 19 Feb 2004 22:04:42 -0800
Subject: Scrolling a Card?
In-Reply-To: <BC5B9547.276AE%doug@webcrossing.com>
References: <BC5B9547.276AE%doug@webcrossing.com>
Message-ID: <p060102adbc5b53a89cc7@[10.0.1.3]>

At 10:43 AM +0900 2/20/2004, Doug Lerner wrote:
>This is still confusing to me. If the location size of the group is the same
>as the window size then where are controls in the group that you want to
>scroll and see? Do you place them outside the rectangle of the card?

That's right: they're outside the window boundaries, so scrolling 
brings them into view. (Or they're larger than the window boundaries: 
for example, if you want to scroll around a large image in a small 
window, the image will be bigger than the window is.)
-- 
jeanne a. e. devoto ~ jaed at jaedworks.com
http://www.jaedworks.com

From albrecht at act-net.com  Fri Feb 20 04:43:21 2004
From: albrecht at act-net.com (A.C.T.)
Date: Fri, 20 Feb 2004 10:43:21 +0100
Subject: Binary objects
Message-ID: <4035D6B9.6030009@act-net.com>

Hi, revoluzzers :-)

I am "brand new" to Revolution, my first contacts with hypercard-like 
tools also were my last: Toolbook on Windows, about 12 years ago. I am 
currently trying to get comfortable with Revolution - or, more 
precisely, with "Transcript" - to minimize the work needed to get 
cross-platform tools.

As a "starter" I plan to "port" some older tools I did in C, which read 
in JPEG files and parse the attached headers (JFIF etc) according to 
some specific rules, handling Photoshop-chunks etc.
I understand that rewriting the decoding in "Transcript" would be best 
to get a cross-platform version. I have to admit that I find Transcript 
extremely difficult to read, at least imagining a larger project with 
complex "parsing functions". Most likely this is a question of getting 
used to Transcript.

My question now is: I have browsed the documentation but did not find a 
detailed description about how to handle binary objects. So that is why 
I described my "test project" above: I need to read in a JPEG file (no 
display needed or wanted), eventually decode it into a bitmap memory 
area (I understand this decoded bitmap is available as an object after 
the JPEG has been read in, I found something about that in the docs). 
And I need access to all header chunks in the file, so I can parse them. 
I would love to have a "C-like" language for that, since I am used to 
that for about 20 years or longer, but learning something new may be fun :-)

Could someone here point me to the right place in the documentation 
where handling binary objects and parsing them is described?

Erm, and: Is there a plain text version of the docs? I find the short 
chapters and the help-browser (on Windows) some kind of unsuportive :-)


Many thanks for your assistance,
Marc Albrecht
A.C.T. / level-2
Glinder Str. 2
27432 Ebersdorf
Deutschland
Tel. 04765-830060
Fax. 04765-830064


From David.Glasgow at calderstones.nhs.uk  Thu Feb 19 11:38:27 2004
From: David.Glasgow at calderstones.nhs.uk (Glasgow David)
Date: Thu, 19 Feb 2004 16:38:27 -0000
Subject: DATUM (was Re: control scructure repeat and next line)
Message-ID: <92C2FCA79EE22F4B98185EB58BF2D3B3012CF787@mercury.cstone-tr.nwest.nhs.uk>

> Since you are working with lines, I should have stuck with "lines".  
> There is no
> Revolution jargon called datum, as far as I know; this is all my fault.

I was also a bit puzzled, since "datum" is the german word for "date" 
:-)

> Dar Scott

Regards

Klaus Major
klaus at major-k.de
www.major-k.de



As in 'Hot date'?  ;-)


Best wishes,

David Glasgow

Forensic Software and Services www.i-Psych.co.uk 


From leraillezB at netinfo.fr  Thu Feb 19 12:33:27 2004
From: leraillezB at netinfo.fr (Benoit Leraillez)
Date: Thu, 19 Feb 2004 18:33:27 +0100
Subject: Beginners global variable pb
Message-ID: <BC5AB1F7.163B1%leraillezB@netinfo.fr>

  Hi,


  I'm a beginner with Revolution (used other things in the past for
interface dev) but decided to use it since it corresponds exactly to what I
need for a cross-platform product prototype. My code maybe not the finest or
the most elegant but it basically does what it is supposed to do up to
now?;-)

  Now here is the problem I'm up to:

- The first card let's the user select the language interface for the rest
  of the stack. I know how to change on the fly the texts on that card to
  the user's selection from the scrolling list field. But I haven't found
  a way to store that selection so that every text field on every card
  displays text in the correct language (LanguageChoice is a global variable
  defined in the stack script in open stack and modified in the language
  selection script).

  Since I defined the variable as global up in the stack I don't understand
why it doesn't apply to every card and field. Maybe there is another way to
do this?

  (On top of that the ideal for me would be to have a hidden card containing
a table where each column would be a language and each row a field's content
since I could then keep simpler code in the text fields and probably import
and export the translations to work on it elsewhere than in Revolution.
First I've got to figure out how to "put content of cell
("LanguageChoice",3) of field "FullText" of card "Translation" into field
"Headline"" but I think I'll try to figure that out on my own before coming
here again?;-)


  TIA for any help.

  
P.S. Oh! Just one more thing, is there a way to have an image put in such
away that it appears in every cards at the same place when you create a new
card? And if you modify that image you don't have to copy and paste hundreds
of times? It ain't a priority but it would be cool?;-)

-- 
Beno?t Leraillez

Nous n'avons pas les moyens d'acheter bon march?.


From xbury.cs at clearstream.com  Fri Feb 20 07:15:57 2004
From: xbury.cs at clearstream.com (xbury.cs at clearstream.com)
Date: Fri, 20 Feb 2004 13:15:57 +0100
Subject: Beginners global variable pb
Message-ID: <OFDE64625D.A977164F-ONC1256E40.0042CF70-C1256E40.004360D5@deutsche-boerse.de>

Welcome to the revolution!

On 19/02/2004 18:33:27 use-revolution-bounces wrote:
>Hi,

>Since I defined the variable as global up in the stack I don't understand
>why it doesn't apply to every card and field. Maybe there is another way 
to
>do this?

Have you tried shared-fields? Otherwise you run a script that changes the
languages after changing the language. 

>(On top of that the ideal for me would be to have a hidden card 
containing
>a table where each column would be a language and each row a field's 
content
>since I could then keep simpler code in the text fields and probably 
import
>and export the translations to work on it elsewhere than in Revolution.
>First I've got to figure out how to "put content of cell
>("LanguageChoice",3) of field "FullText" of card "Translation" into field
>"Headline"" but I think I'll try to figure that out on my own before 
coming
>here again ;-)

It's near ready but not quite, I will release this weekend an API to 
change
GUI languages with built-in extensible translation table to handle an any 
number of languages (yes, including klingon!). Look for a discrete release
of my browser tonite or tomorow... The API includes a scanner to find your 

controls and gives you the choice for each control to change the content,
tooltip and label of that control. 

>P.S. Oh! Just one more thing, is there a way to have an image put in such
>away that it appears in every cards at the same place when you create a 
new
>card? And if you modify that image you don't have to copy and paste 
hundreds
>of times? It ain't a priority but it would be cool ;-)

create a group, make it's background behavior true. Put hte image in it 
and
THEN create your cards... Doesn't work for cards created earlier...

cheers
Xavier

Visit us at http://www.clearstream.com
                                                          
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From Leraillez at netinfo.fr  Fri Feb 20 07:18:20 2004
From: Leraillez at netinfo.fr (Leraillez Benoit)
Date: Fri, 20 Feb 2004 13:18:20 +0100
Subject: Beginners global variable pb
In-Reply-To: <02ab01c3f72a$041f19a0$6601a8c0@LightningFlash>
Message-ID: <BC5BB99C.16473%Leraillez@netinfo.fr>

Le 19/02/04 21:50, ??Ken Ray?? <kray at sonsothunder.com> a ?crit?:

> This is done through re-declaring the global in the script that wants to
> retrieve the value.

So a global variable is kind of global and the string naming it can be used
for something else. Hmmmm, there may be good reasons for this, but when I
name something and declare it valid for a whole project I thought my job was
done?;-)

> Yes. What you do is put the image into a group (select the image and
> choose "Group Selected" from the Object menu). Then set the
> "backgroundBehavior" property of the group ("Behave like a background")
> to "true" (check the checkbox in the Properties palette for the group).

Thanks.

-- 
Beno?t Leraillez

La douleur des autres est tout ? fait supportable, hors les cris.


From Leraillez at netinfo.fr  Fri Feb 20 07:25:25 2004
From: Leraillez at netinfo.fr (Leraillez Benoit)
Date: Fri, 20 Feb 2004 13:25:25 +0100
Subject: Beginners global variable pb
In-Reply-To: <p0601029abc5ad54f782a@[10.0.1.3]>
Message-ID: <BC5BBB45.16475%Leraillez@netinfo.fr>

Le 19/02/04 22:35, ??Jeanne A. E. DeVoto?? <revolution at jaedworks.com> a
?crit?:

> The basic idea here is that, instead of having a hidden card, you
> have sets of custom properties for each card - one set for each
> language - to hold the correct text for that card.

  Ok but if I need to change texts because my translations are incorrect or
if I add a new language, in a table I just add a column containing the texts
and the whole stack is translated with a new language or I just import a tab
separated new version and the errors are all corrected without having to go
thru every card and finding the field properties by hand. Am I right?

-- 
Beno?t Leraillez
Bien des personnes aiment ? dire qu'elles ont une pr?dilection pour des
choses ?profondes?, or, je me demande si ces personnes ne commettent pas des
erreurs en prenant pour ?profondes? des choses qui sont creuses. (S. Guitry)


From klaus at major-k.de  Fri Feb 20 07:36:44 2004
From: klaus at major-k.de (Klaus Major)
Date: Fri, 20 Feb 2004 13:36:44 +0100
Subject: DATUM (was Re: control scructure repeat and next line)
In-Reply-To: <92C2FCA79EE22F4B98185EB58BF2D3B3012CF787@mercury.cstone-tr.nwest.nhs.uk>
References: <92C2FCA79EE22F4B98185EB58BF2D3B3012CF787@mercury.cstone-tr.nwest.nhs.uk>
Message-ID: <7101C96C-63A1-11D8-BFCA-000A27B49A96@major-k.de>

Hi Glasgow,

>> Since you are working with lines, I should have stuck with "lines".
>> There is no
>> Revolution jargon called datum, as far as I know; this is all my 
>> fault.
> I was also a bit puzzled, since "datum" is the german word for "date"
> :-)
>> Dar Scott
>
> Regards
>
> Klaus Major
> klaus at major-k.de
> www.major-k.de
>
> As in 'Hot date'?  ;-)

Depends on the lady... ;-)

But you're spoiled, David :-D

> Best wishes,
>
> David Glasgow

Regards

Klaus Major
klaus at major-k.de
www.major-k.de


From chipp at chipp.com  Fri Feb 20 07:40:26 2004
From: chipp at chipp.com (Chipp Walters)
Date: Fri, 20 Feb 2004 06:40:26 -0600
Subject: Binary objects
In-Reply-To: <4035D6B9.6030009@act-net.com>
References: <4035D6B9.6030009@act-net.com>
Message-ID: <F5A5F10F-63A1-11D8-B73B-000A95F078B6@chipp.com>

You might want to check out the section titled "Graphics and Images" at:
http://www.sonsothunder.com/

also, I have some stacks which manipulate images using their binary 
data. Check out "Image Compositing" and "Image Tools Example." They can 
be found at:
http://www.altuit.com/webs/altuit2/RunRev/Downloads.htm

Also, consider searching the list via Google for the subject "JPEG 
Header"

In fact there is a link at:

http://lists.runrev.com/pipermail/metacard/2003-May/004802.html

And you can search the list via Google at:

http://www.google.com/advanced_search?q=site:lists.runrev.com

Welcome to Revolution...hope this helps:-)

-Chipp


From albrecht at act-net.com  Fri Feb 20 09:30:06 2004
From: albrecht at act-net.com (A.C.T.)
Date: Fri, 20 Feb 2004 15:30:06 +0100
Subject: Binary objects
In-Reply-To: <F5A5F10F-63A1-11D8-B73B-000A95F078B6@chipp.com>
References: <4035D6B9.6030009@act-net.com>
	<F5A5F10F-63A1-11D8-B73B-000A95F078B6@chipp.com>
Message-ID: <403619EE.8050008@act-net.com>

Hi, Chipp,

 > You might want to check out the section titled "Graphics and Images" at:

thanks a lot for the links, I'll dig my way through them!

> Also, consider searching the list via Google for the subject "JPEG Header"

Thanks, I'm quite familar with those (at least) already ;-)

Marc Albrecht
A.C.T. / level-2
Glinder Str. 2
27432 Ebersdorf
Deutschland
Tel. 04765-830060
Fax. 04765-830064


From 3mcgrath at adelphia.net  Fri Feb 20 09:28:44 2004
From: 3mcgrath at adelphia.net (Thomas McGrath III)
Date: Fri, 20 Feb 2004 09:28:44 -0500
Subject: Beginners global variable pb
In-Reply-To: <BC5AB1F7.163B1%leraillezB@netinfo.fr>
References: <BC5AB1F7.163B1%leraillezB@netinfo.fr>
Message-ID: <169F7BA2-63B1-11D8-A8B8-000A95DA60FA@adelphia.net>

I haven't used them but isn't this the case for using the property 
profiles? I thought I read that in the docs?

Switch master profiles based upon language chosen. set up properties 
for each language and fill things up from there.

TOm

On Feb 19, 2004, at 12:33 PM, Benoit Leraillez wrote:

>   Hi,
>
>
>   I'm a beginner with Revolution (used other things in the past for
> interface dev) but decided to use it since it corresponds exactly to 
> what I
> need for a cross-platform product prototype. My code maybe not the 
> finest or
> the most elegant but it basically does what it is supposed to do up to
> now?;-)
>
>   Now here is the problem I'm up to:
>
> - The first card let's the user select the language interface for the 
> rest
>   of the stack. I know how to change on the fly the texts on that card 
> to
>   the user's selection from the scrolling list field. But I haven't 
> found
>   a way to store that selection so that every text field on every card
>   displays text in the correct language (LanguageChoice is a global 
> variable
>   defined in the stack script in open stack and modified in the 
> language
>   selection script).
>
>   Since I defined the variable as global up in the stack I don't 
> understand
> why it doesn't apply to every card and field. Maybe there is another 
> way to
> do this?
>
>   (On top of that the ideal for me would be to have a hidden card 
> containing
> a table where each column would be a language and each row a field's 
> content
> since I could then keep simpler code in the text fields and probably 
> import
> and export the translations to work on it elsewhere than in Revolution.
> First I've got to figure out how to "put content of cell
> ("LanguageChoice",3) of field "FullText" of card "Translation" into 
> field
> "Headline"" but I think I'll try to figure that out on my own before 
> coming
> here again?;-)
>
>
>   TIA for any help.
>
>
> P.S. Oh! Just one more thing, is there a way to have an image put in 
> such
> away that it appears in every cards at the same place when you create 
> a new
> card? And if you modify that image you don't have to copy and paste 
> hundreds
> of times? It ain't a priority but it would be cool?;-)
>
> -- 
> Beno?t Leraillez
>
> Nous n'avons pas les moyens d'acheter bon march?.
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>
>

Thomas J. McGrath III
SCS
1000 Killarney Dr.
Pittsburgh, PA 15234
412-885-8541


From jhurley at infostations.com  Fri Feb 20 10:09:51 2004
From: jhurley at infostations.com (Jim Hurley)
Date: Fri, 20 Feb 2004 07:09:51 -0800
Subject: OT: Web design software
In-Reply-To: <20040220002101.0959C930101@mail.runrev.com>
References: <20040220002101.0959C930101@mail.runrev.com>
Message-ID: <a05100303bc5b1053627c@[69.19.145.232]>

>
>Message: 4
>Date: Thu, 19 Feb 2004 14:46:37 -0800
>From: "Richard K. Herz" <herz at ucsd.edu>
>Subject: Re: OT: Web design software
>To: <use-revolution at lists.runrev.com>
>Message-ID: <00be01c3f73a$3c06d370$58bfef84 at maerkhpc1>
>Content-Type: text/plain;	charset="iso-8859-1"
>
>Richard Gaskin wrote:
>
>>>Since you'll have to deliver a player app for users to run them, why not
>>>save them the extra step of using a Web browser and build a directory
>>>  right into your app which can download and run your stack files?
>
>Jim Hurley replied:
>
>>My thought was to simply create a standalone consisting of the entire
>>stack (it won't be large) and store that on a web site with the url
>  >to be cited in the book.
>
>From my own experience, I recommend Richard's approach - something similar
>to his RevNet.  This will give you a way to get corrected or revised stacks
>to users easily, as well as new stacks you think up later.  A user can
>download your existing standalone set of stacks in a single archive file.
>Then, when a web connection is available, the standalone can check for
>updates.  My approach is described at
>http://reactorlab.net/intro/InternetApp.html .
>
>Rich Herz
>

Rich,

Thanks Rich. Very impressive. Very sophisticated.

Now, let's see if I'm up to the task.

Jim

Jim

From rcozens at pon.net  Fri Feb 20 09:00:41 2004
From: rcozens at pon.net (Rob Cozens)
Date: Fri, 20 Feb 2004 07:00:41 -0700
Subject: [OT] Cross Mac Platform Text Editing
In-Reply-To: <D16A8500-6316-11D8-A009-003065CC999E@pi.be>
References: <20040219182639.B9A5193009E@mail.runrev.com>
 <D16A8500-6316-11D8-A009-003065CC999E@pi.be>
Message-ID: <a05100300bc5bc1e4c12b@[66.52.165.29]>

>
>Text edit for Mac OS 9 has a 32 kb file limit.

Thanks, Wouter; but that's not my problem.

The TextEdit file appears to have some non-displayable File 
Type/Creator pair when opened in Mac OS9.

AppleWorks shows the file in an answer file dialog; but says it can't 
translate the file...which WAS formatted as text-only.

Both AW & Teach Text will open the file after the Type & Creator are 
changed; however my Code Warrior editor still won't show the file in 
an answer file dialog.
-- 

Rob Cozens
CCW, Serendipity Software Company
http://www.oenolog.net/who.htm

"And I, which was two fooles, do so grow three;
Who are a little wise, the best fooles bee."

from "The Triple Foole" by John Donne (1572-1631)

From rcozens at pon.net  Fri Feb 20 09:48:05 2004
From: rcozens at pon.net (Rob Cozens)
Date: Fri, 20 Feb 2004 07:48:05 -0700
Subject: [OT] Cross Mac Platform Text Editing
In-Reply-To: <1d8.1a71ad39.2d66ac68@aol.com>
References: <1d8.1a71ad39.2d66ac68@aol.com>
Message-ID: <a05100301bc5bc4df7462@[66.52.165.29]>

>How are you moving the files?

Hi Paul,

The latest action that triggered my post dealt with text files loaded 
from a CD burned on OS 10.2  onto an OS 9 platform.

I believe I have previously dragged the same (Serendipity Library 
language translation) files across an Ethernet LAN with the same 
result; but I'll try it again...

Just did: nova (as in "no go")--Dragged the file across the LAN, and 
it looks just the same as the one loaded from CD.  File Type/Creator 
appear to be empty; but if I type four characters into each field 
without selecting & deleting File Type, ResEdit tells me there are 
invisible characters in the field.  Now in this case, I saved the 
file three times: once a rich text with no extension, once with text 
only & a ".txt" extension, and once with text-only and no extension. 
And the later files did show Type/Creator as "TEXTttxt."

But this disturbs me more: files saved with no extension on OS X show 
up in OS 9 with ".rtf" or ".txt" extensions depending on how the file 
was saved.  Have I ever mentioned how much I HATE O/S's doing things 
like this (and the OS X app bundle) "behind my back"?  What's more, 
if I go to the OS 9 machine, strip the extension from the file, and 
attempt to drag it back to the OS X box, the OS 9 directory shows the 
file as a 4K SimpleText file; but the directory listing on OS X shows 
the file as 0 KB, with no Kind or Date Modified info.

What the hey is Apple doing here?
-- 

Rob Cozens
CCW, Serendipity Software Company
http://www.oenolog.net/who.htm

"And I, which was two fooles, do so grow three;
Who are a little wise, the best fooles bee."

from "The Triple Foole" by John Donne (1572-1631)

From shedrup at ms9.hinet.net  Fri Feb 20 10:58:17 2004
From: shedrup at ms9.hinet.net (Friedrich F. Grohmann)
Date: Fri, 20 Feb 2004 23:58:17 +0800
Subject: save dialogue stuck
Message-ID: <200402201556.XAA27643@msr65.hinet.net>

I imported one medium sized HyperCard stack (approximately 5500 cards) 
into Rev. A considerable number of handlers had to be rewritten and now I 
am developing the stack further in its new environment. It works very 
nicely apart, alas, from the Chinese stuff but today I won't go into 
that...

What irritates me a little bit is that the "Save ..." screen gets quite 
often stuck. The cursor turns into a hand and no clicking helps to remove 
the window. I have to save again. Both screens will overlap for some time 
and then disappear as expected. What could be the reason for this 
annoying behaviour? How could it be avoided?

Thanks in advance.

Fritz





    

From pevensen at siboneylg.com  Fri Feb 20 10:55:55 2004
From: pevensen at siboneylg.com (Peter T. Evensen)
Date: Fri, 20 Feb 2004 09:55:55 -0600
Subject: [ANN] UnixCal - Mac OS X only
In-Reply-To: <2A91932C-6374-11D8-BAB5-0003937A97B8@genesearch.com.au>
References: <2A91932C-6374-11D8-BAB5-0003937A97B8@genesearch.com.au>
Message-ID: <6.0.1.1.2.20040220095241.01da5980@SLG_PDC>

Cool app!   It's been a while since I read it, but does it say Meri and 
Pippin met Treebeard on 2/20?

But you didn't include the French, German, Croatian and Russian stuff...

At 01:12 AM 2/20/2004, you wrote:
>I found out that the FreeBSD basis for OS X includes a Terminal app called 
>calendar, that reads a set of calendar files buried deep in the system. 
>They are mainly lists of things that happened on this day.. or public 
>holidays, as well as a few funny groups like dates of major events in the 
>Lord of the Rings!
>
>Anyway, I decided it would be fun to have a Revolution front-end to 
>display this data, since I wasn't going to wade through the Terminal every 
>day to check it! If anyone is interested, both the app and the stack file 
>are available at: http://www.troz.net/
>
>This is Mac OS X only, and I haven't tested it on anything other than 
>10.3.2 but it is possible that it would run on Unix/Linux if they have the 
>calendar files and they are stored in the same folders. If anyone proves 
>or disproves this, please let me know.
>
>Have fun,
>Sarah
>sarahr at genesearch.com.au
>http://www.troz.net/Rev/
>
>_______________________________________________
>use-revolution mailing list
>use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
>http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution

Peter T. Evensen
http://www.PetersRoadToHealth.com
24-hour recorded info hotline: 1-800-624-7671 


From dsc at swcp.com  Fri Feb 20 11:05:12 2004
From: dsc at swcp.com (Dar Scott)
Date: Fri, 20 Feb 2004 09:05:12 -0700
Subject: Binary objects
In-Reply-To: <4035D6B9.6030009@act-net.com>
Message-ID: <902B5314-63BE-11D8-BA9E-000A9567A3E6@swcp.com>


On Friday, February 20, 2004, at 02:43 AM, A.C.T. wrote:

> My question now is: I have browsed the documentation but did not find 
> a detailed description about how to handle binary objects.

Transcript commands and functions that may apply are these:

charToNum()
numToChar()

binaryEncode()
binaryDecode()

As in any environment, make the basic functions and command you want 
and use those.

Don't put binary in array keys or fields.

Characters are bytes and all values are allowed.  A string is a 
sequence of bytes.

You can access a sequence of bytes by character chunking as in "char 7 
to 8 of header".

Dar Scott



From mpetrides at earthlink.net  Fri Feb 20 11:05:41 2004
From: mpetrides at earthlink.net (Marian Petrides)
Date: Fri, 20 Feb 2004 11:05:41 -0500
Subject: save dialogue stuck
In-Reply-To: <200402201556.XAA27643@msr65.hinet.net>
References: <200402201556.XAA27643@msr65.hinet.net>
Message-ID: <A18B7548-63BE-11D8-A675-000A959D005E@earthlink.net>

I have not encountered this problem, but I have found that in a stack 
with LOTS of objects on each card if I have the application browser 
open it takes a very long time for me to be able to go from the arrow 
selection cursor (select a text field to unlock it) to the grabber hand 
(to edit the text in the field).   If I close the Application Browser 
window, ::::poof:::: things go back to their normal speedy pace.

Is the App Browser window open when you try to save?  Have you tried 
closing it?  Maybe that will speed things up--assuming that the save 
isn't actually hung, just excrutiatingly slow.

M
On Feb 20, 2004, at 10:58 AM, Friedrich F. Grohmann wrote:

> I imported one medium sized HyperCard stack (approximately 5500 cards)
> into Rev. A considerable number of handlers had to be rewritten and 
> now I
> am developing the stack further in its new environment. It works very
> nicely apart, alas, from the Chinese stuff but today I won't go into
> that...
>
> What irritates me a little bit is that the "Save ..." screen gets quite
> often stuck. The cursor turns into a hand and no clicking helps to 
> remove
> the window. I have to save again. Both screens will overlap for some 
> time
> and then disappear as expected. What could be the reason for this
> annoying behaviour? How could it be avoided?
>
> Thanks in advance.
>
> Fritz
>
>
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>


From devin_asay at byu.edu  Fri Feb 20 11:31:19 2004
From: devin_asay at byu.edu (Devin Asay)
Date: Fri, 20 Feb 2004 09:31:19 -0700
Subject: Does anyone actually USE the Animation Builder?
Message-ID: <36AA4532-63C2-11D8-AF14-000A95A6A138@byu.edu>

All,

I'm trying to figure out why animations built in the Animation Builder 
perform so miserably once you've left the AB environment. I've searched 
the archives and have found several queries on this subject, but no one 
seems to know the answer.

Specifically, if you create an animation in the AB it plays back 
smoothly as long as you are in that environment. But as soon as you 
close the Animation Builder window and try to play back the animation 
using revPlayAnimation, the playback is jerky, jumpy and generally 
unacceptable. This behavior does not improve when you compile the stack 
as a standalone executable.

So back to my original question: Can animations created in the 
Animation Builder actually be used in applications, or is the AB just a 
fun toy to play around with?

Devin Asay
Humanities Technology and Research Support Center
Brigham Young University


From rcozens at pon.net  Fri Feb 20 10:43:50 2004
From: rcozens at pon.net (Rob Cozens)
Date: Fri, 20 Feb 2004 08:43:50 -0700
Subject: Does anyone actually USE the Animation Builder?
In-Reply-To: <36AA4532-63C2-11D8-AF14-000A95A6A138@byu.edu>
References: <36AA4532-63C2-11D8-AF14-000A95A6A138@byu.edu>
Message-ID: <a05100301bc5bdb1aad9d@[66.52.165.216]>

>if you create an animation in the AB it plays back smoothly as long 
>as you are in that environment. But as soon as you close the 
>Animation Builder window and try to play back the animation using 
>revPlayAnimation, the playback is jerky, jumpy and generally 
>unacceptable. This behavior does not improve when you compile the 
>stack as a standalone executable.

This has been my experience also, Devin; but I have not found time to 
look into it.  If I were to, I would play with the frames per second 
setting first.
-- 

Rob Cozens
CCW, Serendipity Software Company
http://www.oenolog.net/who.htm

"And I, which was two fooles, do so grow three;
Who are a little wise, the best fooles bee."

from "The Triple Foole" by John Donne (1572-1631)

From janschenkel at yahoo.com  Fri Feb 20 11:48:25 2004
From: janschenkel at yahoo.com (Jan Schenkel)
Date: Fri, 20 Feb 2004 08:48:25 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Does anyone actually USE the Animation Builder?
In-Reply-To: <36AA4532-63C2-11D8-AF14-000A95A6A138@byu.edu>
Message-ID: <20040220164825.94343.qmail@web60510.mail.yahoo.com>

--- Devin Asay <devin_asay at byu.edu> wrote:
> All,
> 
> I'm trying to figure out why animations built in the
> Animation Builder 
> perform so miserably once you've left the AB
> environment. I've searched 
> the archives and have found several queries on this
> subject, but no one 
> seems to know the answer.
> 
> Specifically, if you create an animation in the AB
> it plays back 
> smoothly as long as you are in that environment. But
> as soon as you 
> close the Animation Builder window and try to play
> back the animation 
> using revPlayAnimation, the playback is jerky, jumpy
> and generally 
> unacceptable. This behavior does not improve when
> you compile the stack 
> as a standalone executable.
> 
> So back to my original question: Can animations
> created in the 
> Animation Builder actually be used in applications,
> or is the AB just a 
> fun toy to play around with?
> 
> Devin Asay
> 

Hi Devin,

The only thing I can think of right away, is to turn
on the 'alwaysBuffer' property of the stack.

Jan Schenkel.

=====
"As we grow older, we grow both wiser and more foolish at the same time."  (La Rochefoucauld)

__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Mail SpamGuard - Read only the mail you want.
http://antispam.yahoo.com/tools

From SimPLsol at aol.com  Fri Feb 20 11:49:13 2004
From: SimPLsol at aol.com (SimPLsol at aol.com)
Date: Fri, 20 Feb 2004 11:49:13 EST
Subject: [OT] Cross Mac Platform Text Editing
Message-ID: <54.2316fbf6.2d679489@aol.com>

Rob,
Perhaps I'm going at this the wrong way but I think the problem must be 
related to the transfer. In the last couple years I've repeatedly moved from OS X 
to classic to OS 9 on the same computer and had no trouble opening AppleWorks 6 
docs and Microsoft Word docs in any of the three platforms, created in any of 
the three platforms. Of course straight text files might be another issue, I 
have no experience there.
Apple has apparently still not decided what to do with creator codes (and the 
entire resource fork, for that matter). Currently in OS X the creator code 
(if one exists) gets precedence over the file extension (if one exists).
I am surprised moving the file by CD did not work.
Just a note, on the file transfer problems I mentioned previously with flash 
cards stripping the resource fork; I did find transfers from OS 9 to OS X 
worked better than transfers made the other way. 
OS X also includes invisible files with file transfers (like ds_store) which 
become visible in OS 9. This is a real nightmare when you create automatic 
loading plugins in OS X and transfer them to OS 9 (Revolution will try to load 
the now visible ds_store as one of the plugins).
Hope some of this helps you.
Paul Looney

From yvescoppe at skynet.be  Fri Feb 20 11:49:48 2004
From: yvescoppe at skynet.be (Yves COPPE)
Date: Fri, 20 Feb 2004 17:49:48 +0100
Subject: [ANN] UnixCal - Mac OS X only
In-Reply-To: <2A91932C-6374-11D8-BAB5-0003937A97B8@genesearch.com.au>
References: <2A91932C-6374-11D8-BAB5-0003937A97B8@genesearch.com.au>
Message-ID: <CB5E0AC3-63C4-11D8-9A83-003065E14B04@skynet.be>


Le 20 f?vr. 04, ? 08:12, Sarah Reichelt a ?crit :

> I found out that the FreeBSD basis for OS X includes a Terminal app 
> called calendar, that reads a set of calendar files buried deep in the 
> system. They are mainly lists of things that happened on this day.. or 
> public holidays, as well as a few funny groups like dates of major 
> events in the Lord of the Rings!
>
> Anyway, I decided it would be fun to have a Revolution front-end to 
> display this data, since I wasn't going to wade through the Terminal 
> every day to check it! If anyone is interested, both the app and the 
> stack file are available at: http://www.troz.net/
>
> This is Mac OS X only, and I haven't tested it on anything other than 
> 10.3.2 but it is possible that it would run on Unix/Linux if they have 
> the calendar files and they are stored in the same folders. If anyone 
> proves or disproves this, please let me know.
>
> Have fun,
>

Fantastic......

Greetings.

Yves COPPE
yvescoppe at skynet.be

From chrism at lumin.us  Fri Feb 20 11:59:39 2004
From: chrism at lumin.us (Christopher Mitchell)
Date: Fri, 20 Feb 2004 10:59:39 -0600
Subject: Does anyone actually USE the Animation Builder?
In-Reply-To: <36AA4532-63C2-11D8-AF14-000A95A6A138@byu.edu>
References: <36AA4532-63C2-11D8-AF14-000A95A6A138@byu.edu>
Message-ID: <2B72D828-63C6-11D8-B31C-000393B64EDC@lumin.us>

Devin,

This is a known issue on  bugzilla and hopefully it will be fixed soon. 
  I also think this is an OSX only thing, because the animation I was 
testing with (similar to the one in the tutorial) played back smoothly 
on Windows.

see bugs 333 and 1178.  These should probably be combined.  I think 
Kevin submitted both from me, but 333 is assigned and should be 
sufficient.

Chris

Yours,
Chris
On Feb 20, 2004, at 10:31 AM, Devin Asay wrote:

> All,
>
> I'm trying to figure out why animations built in the Animation Builder 
> perform so miserably once you've left the AB environment. I've 
> searched the archives and have found several queries on this subject, 
> but no one seems to know the answer.
>
> Specifically, if you create an animation in the AB it plays back 
> smoothly as long as you are in that environment. But as soon as you 
> close the Animation Builder window and try to play back the animation 
> using revPlayAnimation, the playback is jerky, jumpy and generally 
> unacceptable. This behavior does not improve when you compile the 
> stack as a standalone executable.
>
> So back to my original question: Can animations created in the 
> Animation Builder actually be used in applications, or is the AB just 
> a fun toy to play around with?
>
> Devin Asay
> Humanities Technology and Research Support Center
> Brigham Young University
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>


From alex at mindlube.com  Fri Feb 20 12:07:19 2004
From: alex at mindlube.com (Alex Rice)
Date: Fri, 20 Feb 2004 10:07:19 -0700
Subject: [OT] Cross Mac Platform Text Editing
In-Reply-To: <a05100301bc5bc4df7462@[66.52.165.29]>
References: <1d8.1a71ad39.2d66ac68@aol.com>
	<a05100301bc5bc4df7462@[66.52.165.29]>
Message-ID: <3D983771-63C7-11D8-8B28-000393C4760A@mindlube.com>

Rob,
step 1: get a real text editor. TextEdit and SimpleText are toys.

Instead use Emacs, BBEdit, SubethaEdit, XCode, ... something

--
Alex Rice | Mindlube Software | http://mindlube.com


From jmac at consensustech.com  Fri Feb 20 12:51:46 2004
From: jmac at consensustech.com (Jim MacConnell)
Date: Fri, 20 Feb 2004 09:51:46 -0800
Subject: revGoURL and https://
In-Reply-To: <ca.27f33084.2d66f258@aol.com>
Message-ID: <BC5B8932.32F6%jmac@consensustech.com>

> however, if I try to launch an https:// address, the browser never launches.

It works fine for me using Safari as default browser...
OS 10.2.8 & Rev 2.1.2

Jim
-- 
James H. MacConnell
Consensus Technology
http://www.consensustech.com
******************************


From devin_asay at byu.edu  Fri Feb 20 13:22:41 2004
From: devin_asay at byu.edu (Devin Asay)
Date: Fri, 20 Feb 2004 11:22:41 -0700
Subject: Does anyone actually USE the Animation Builder?
In-Reply-To: <20040220170005.E475093012B@mail.runrev.com>
References: <20040220170005.E475093012B@mail.runrev.com>
Message-ID: <C54B6356-63D1-11D8-A143-000A95A6A138@byu.edu>

Thanks for the replies.

I tried those things; adjusting frames per second doesn't smooth things 
out, setting 'alwaysBuffer' to true or false has no effect. Bottom line 
is that animations play smoothly enough in the Animation Builder, but 
once you're out of it, playing back the animation with 
revPlayAnimation, performance is jumpy and jerky. I'm on a Dual 2 GHz 
G5 running Panther and Rev 2.1.2. But I have seen this same behavior on 
all Macs I've tried, running OS 9 and X and dating back to Rev 1.X.

Has anyone successfully used these animations? Does it work better 
under Windows?

Devin

On Feb 20, 2004, at 10:00 AM, Rob Cozens wrote:

> This has been my experience also, Devin; but I have not found time to 
> look into it.  If I were to, I would play with the frames per second 
> setting first.

On Feb 20, 2004, at 10:00 AM, Jan Schenkel wrote:

> The only thing I can think of right away, is to turn
> on the 'alwaysBuffer' property of the stack.

Devin Asay
Humanities Technology and Research Support Center
Brigham Young University


From jperryl at ecs.fullerton.edu  Fri Feb 20 13:39:47 2004
From: jperryl at ecs.fullerton.edu (Judy Perry)
Date: Fri, 20 Feb 2004 10:39:47 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Does anyone actually USE the Animation Builder?
In-Reply-To: <C54B6356-63D1-11D8-A143-000A95A6A138@byu.edu>
Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.4.33.0402201036570.11529-100000@titan.ecs.fullerton.edu>

Hi Devin,

I use it in the brief animation module I present for my course, along with
flip-frame style animation/set the loc of style animation, and the really
old, clunkier-still, creditmaker that makes scrolling credits.

But, no, I haven't really had much success with it (the Animation Builder)
either.  Clunky playback.  As you say, fine within the builder itself but
later playback seems awful.  Changing FPS seems not to help.

But we're using Macs (OS 9).

HTH,

Judy

On Fri, 20 Feb 2004, Devin Asay wrote:

> Thanks for the replies.
>
> I tried those things; adjusting frames per second doesn't smooth things
> out, setting 'alwaysBuffer' to true or false has no effect. Bottom line
> is that animations play smoothly enough in the Animation Builder, but
> once you're out of it, playing back the animation with
> revPlayAnimation, performance is jumpy and jerky. I'm on a Dual 2 GHz
> G5 running Panther and Rev 2.1.2. But I have seen this same behavior on
> all Macs I've tried, running OS 9 and X and dating back to Rev 1.X.
>
> Has anyone successfully used these animations? Does it work better
> under Windows?
>
> Devin


From devin_asay at byu.edu  Fri Feb 20 13:37:36 2004
From: devin_asay at byu.edu (Devin Asay)
Date: Fri, 20 Feb 2004 11:37:36 -0700
Subject: Does anyone actually USE the Animation Builder?
In-Reply-To: <36AA4532-63C2-11D8-AF14-000A95A6A138@byu.edu>
References: <36AA4532-63C2-11D8-AF14-000A95A6A138@byu.edu>
Message-ID: <DA94C593-63D3-11D8-A143-000A95A6A138@byu.edu>

Okay, I got my hands on a Windows machine running Rev 2.1 under Win 
2000. The animations run reasonably well outside of the Animation 
Builder, so this appears to be a Mac (PPC?) issue. Can anyone else 
confirm that this works okay under Windows?

Devin

On Feb 20, 2004, at 9:31 AM, Devin Asay wrote:

> All,
>
> I'm trying to figure out why animations built in the Animation Builder 
> perform so miserably once you've left the AB environment. I've 
> searched the archives and have found several queries on this subject, 
> but no one seems to know the answer.
>
> Specifically, if you create an animation in the AB it plays back 
> smoothly as long as you are in that environment. But as soon as you 
> close the Animation Builder window and try to play back the animation 
> using revPlayAnimation, the playback is jerky, jumpy and generally 
> unacceptable. This behavior does not improve when you compile the 
> stack as a standalone executable.
>
> So back to my original question: Can animations created in the 
> Animation Builder actually be used in applications, or is the AB just 
> a fun toy to play around with?
>
> Devin Asay
> Humanities Technology and Research Support Center
> Brigham Young University
>
>
Devin Asay
Humanities Technology and Research Support Center
Brigham Young University


From JimCarwardine at OwnYourFuture-net.com  Fri Feb 20 13:53:10 2004
From: JimCarwardine at OwnYourFuture-net.com (Jim Carwardine)
Date: Fri, 20 Feb 2004 14:53:10 -0400
Subject: Scrolling a Card?
In-Reply-To: <p060102adbc5b53a89cc7@[10.0.1.3]>
Message-ID: <BC5BCFD6.55AC%JimCarwardine@OwnYourFuture-net.com>

I had a heck of a time with this and didn't satisfactorily solve it.  Every
time I opened the stack, the group resized even though I had locked the
location.  I tried setting the rect of the stack and the rect of the group
on preOpenStack just to get the scroll bars to work and it still doesn't
work... I have a row of buttons that is wider than the card so I grouped
them, resized the group to be within the card rect and locked the location.
Some of the buttons have thumbnail pictures on them that reference an
external jpeg file.  Maybe that's what's confusing the group... I don't
know... Jim

on 2/20/04 2:04 AM, Jeanne A. E. DeVoto wrote:

> At 10:43 AM +0900 2/20/2004, Doug Lerner wrote:
>> This is still confusing to me. If the location size of the group is the same
>> as the window size then where are controls in the group that you want to
>> scroll and see? Do you place them outside the rectangle of the card?
> 
> That's right: they're outside the window boundaries, so scrolling
> brings them into view. (Or they're larger than the window boundaries:
> for example, if you want to scroll around a large image in a small
> window, the image will be bigger than the window is.)

-- 

OYF is... Highly resourceful people working together.
<http://www.OwnYourFuture-net.com>

Own Your Future Consulting Services Limited,
1959 Upper Water Street, Suite 407, Halifax, Nova Scotia. B3J 3N2
Info Line: 902-823-2477, Phone: 902-823-2339. Fax: 902-823-2139




From nnoydb at excite.com  Fri Feb 20 14:07:04 2004
From: nnoydb at excite.com (Kevin)
Date: Fri, 20 Feb 2004 14:07:04 -0500 (EST)
Subject: Add own handlers/scripts to default set
Message-ID: <20040220190704.762873DC0@xprdmailfe8.nwk.excite.com>





What steps must I take in order to add handlers I create to the default/standard library? 

Kevin


_______________________________________________
Join Excite! - http://www.excite.com
The most personalized portal on the Web!

From graham.samuel at wanadoo.fr  Fri Feb 20 13:45:37 2004
From: graham.samuel at wanadoo.fr (Graham Samuel)
Date: Fri, 20 Feb 2004 19:45:37 +0100
Subject: Multilingual apps (was: Re: Beginners global variable pb)
Message-ID: <6.0.1.1.2.20040220193349.01d26238@pop3.blueyonder.co.uk>

On Fri, 20 Feb 2004 13:25:25 +0100, Leraillez Benoit <Leraillez at netinfo.fr> 
wrote:

> > The basic idea here is that, instead of having a hidden card, you
> > have sets of custom properties for each card - one set for each
> > language - to hold the correct text for that card.
>
>   Ok but if I need to change texts because my translations are incorrect or
>if I add a new language, in a table I just add a column containing the texts
>and the whole stack is translated with a new language or I just import a tab
>separated new version and the errors are all corrected without having to go
>thru every card and finding the field properties by hand. Am I right?

Yes, I think you have a point there. I agree that if one is to have texts 
in other languages, chances are that there will be errors, and/or the whole 
set of texts will have to be created by a non-programmer. A real example I 
have is for an educational application written with English in mind having 
to be used in a Welsh-speaking environment. I'm not a Welsh-speaker, so I 
need to be able to give my list of original texts to an outside person as a 
text file, and get back a line-by-line translation in Welsh. I then need a 
rapid and tidy way of getting the Welsh text back into my application. IMHO 
I could only get all this data into Custom Property sets either by placing 
all the text strings by hand in many different objects and cards or by 
writing a kind of special interpreter that would take the text file and 
manipulate it appropriately according to the exact structure and use of all 
the custom props; either option seems a convoluted way to go about things - 
but YMMV. My own preferred option is to go for a simplified manual approach 
where every string that needs to be changed according to language is set in 
one particular handler ('setUpParameters'), and I simply read the Welsh (or 
whatever) text file into a text editor and paste each line directly into 
the Transcript code, all in one concentrated place in the app. This is 
crude but in fact works rather well.

Just my 2 eurocents

Graham


---------------------------------------------------
Graham Samuel / The Living Fossil Co. / UK & France  



From jacque at hyperactivesw.com  Fri Feb 20 14:46:37 2004
From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay)
Date: Fri, 20 Feb 2004 13:46:37 -0600
Subject: Scrolling a Card?
In-Reply-To: <BC5BCFD6.55AC%JimCarwardine@OwnYourFuture-net.com>
References: <BC5BCFD6.55AC%JimCarwardine@OwnYourFuture-net.com>
Message-ID: <4036641D.1080506@hyperactivesw.com>

On 2/20/04 12:53 PM, Jim Carwardine wrote:

> I had a heck of a time with this and didn't satisfactorily solve it.  Every
> time I opened the stack, the group resized even though I had locked the
> location.

I helped someone with a similar problem once, and it turned out he 
hadn't really locked the group. He'd locked the objects inside the 
group. Make sure you have selected the actual group itself and set its 
lockloc to true. Then save the stack so the property setting will "stick".

With a properly-locked group, I have never seen a failure.

-- 
Jacqueline Landman Gay         |     jacque at hyperactivesw.com
HyperActive Software           |     http://www.hyperactivesw.com

From chrism at lumin.us  Fri Feb 20 14:59:21 2004
From: chrism at lumin.us (Christopher Mitchell)
Date: Fri, 20 Feb 2004 13:59:21 -0600
Subject: Does anyone actually USE the Animation Builder?
In-Reply-To: <DA94C593-63D3-11D8-A143-000A95A6A138@byu.edu>
References: <36AA4532-63C2-11D8-AF14-000A95A6A138@byu.edu>
	<DA94C593-63D3-11D8-A143-000A95A6A138@byu.edu>
Message-ID: <46281A0D-63DF-11D8-95C7-000393B64EDC@lumin.us>

Devin,

Did you see my reply?  This is a known issue in bugzilla, and it is a 
Mac problem.

Yours,
Chris
On Feb 20, 2004, at 12:37 PM, Devin Asay wrote:

> Okay, I got my hands on a Windows machine running Rev 2.1 under Win 
> 2000. The animations run reasonably well outside of the Animation 
> Builder, so this appears to be a Mac (PPC?) issue. Can anyone else 
> confirm that this works okay under Windows?
>
> Devin
>
> On Feb 20, 2004, at 9:31 AM, Devin Asay wrote:
>
>> All,
>>
>> I'm trying to figure out why animations built in the Animation 
>> Builder perform so miserably once you've left the AB environment. 
>> I've searched the archives and have found several queries on this 
>> subject, but no one seems to know the answer.
>>
>> Specifically, if you create an animation in the AB it plays back 
>> smoothly as long as you are in that environment. But as soon as you 
>> close the Animation Builder window and try to play back the animation 
>> using revPlayAnimation, the playback is jerky, jumpy and generally 
>> unacceptable. This behavior does not improve when you compile the 
>> stack as a standalone executable.
>>
>> So back to my original question: Can animations created in the 
>> Animation Builder actually be used in applications, or is the AB just 
>> a fun toy to play around with?
>>
>> Devin Asay
>> Humanities Technology and Research Support Center
>> Brigham Young University
>>
>>
> Devin Asay
> Humanities Technology and Research Support Center
> Brigham Young University
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>


From jimlyons at earthlink.net  Fri Feb 20 15:40:33 2004
From: jimlyons at earthlink.net (Jim Lyons)
Date: Fri, 20 Feb 2004 15:40:33 -0500
Subject: Panther upgrade wrecks stack bindings
Message-ID: <079EE3F2-63E5-11D8-8649-000A95893982@earthlink.net>

I am not a happy camper today. After upgrading to Panther last night, 
and being disappointed by a number of other OT things, now 
double-clicking my stacks won't launch my latest version (2.1.2) of 
Revolution. (Dragging them to the Rev icon or opening from Rev still 
works fine.) After the upgrade, they launched the 2.0 version I still 
had in the applications folder instead. I tried resaving a stack under 
the new version, but double-clicking that stack still launched the old 
version. So I put the old version in the trash and tried it again. This 
time I got an "unexpected error" dialog and no launch at all. Then I 
tried control-clicking a stack and choosing Revolution 2.1 from the 
Open With... menu; that worked, so I quit and tried double-clicking 
again. Now it wants to start up the OS9 environment and launch the 
"fat" version of 2.1!

I restarted the system hoping that would straighten things out. Well, 
now a few stacks have the normal Rev icon and do open 2.1 -- all of 
them are downloaded stacks. All the stacks I made and saved with 2.1 
(and a few other downloaded stacks) now have the "fat" icon and they 
want to run MacOSFat version under Classic when double-clicked. 
Aaaaargh!!!

Can any fellow mac types out there help me straighten this mess out? 
Thanks...

Jim Lyons  8^(


From revolution at jaedworks.com  Fri Feb 20 15:52:26 2004
From: revolution at jaedworks.com (Jeanne A. E. DeVoto)
Date: Fri, 20 Feb 2004 12:52:26 -0800
Subject: Panther upgrade wrecks stack bindings
In-Reply-To: <079EE3F2-63E5-11D8-8649-000A95893982@earthlink.net>
References: <079EE3F2-63E5-11D8-8649-000A95893982@earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <p060102f6bc5c237c4f9c@[10.0.1.3]>

At 3:40 PM -0500 2/20/2004, Jim Lyons wrote:
>I am not a happy camper today. After upgrading to Panther last 
>night, and being disappointed by a number of other OT things, now 
>double-clicking my stacks won't launch my latest version (2.1.2) of 
>Revolution. (Dragging them to the Rev icon or

[Jim tried various things]

>Can any fellow mac types out there help me straighten this mess out? Thanks...

Try this:

1. Pick a stack, any stack, then select it and choose Get Info.

2. In the Open With section of the Get Info window, choose "Other" 
from the popup menu and locate 2.1.2.

3. Click the Change All button below the popup menu.

This has worked for me to straighten OS X's confused mind out. ;-)
-- 
jeanne a. e. devoto ~ jaed at jaedworks.com
http://www.jaedworks.com

From ttasovac at princeton.edu  Fri Feb 20 15:52:16 2004
From: ttasovac at princeton.edu (Toma Tasovac)
Date: Fri, 20 Feb 2004 21:52:16 +0100
Subject: Panther upgrade wrecks stack bindings
In-Reply-To: <079EE3F2-63E5-11D8-8649-000A95893982@earthlink.net>
References: <079EE3F2-63E5-11D8-8649-000A95893982@earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <AAF432E6-63E6-11D8-BF95-000A95C45C8C@princeton.edu>


did u try selecting a .rev file, invoking the info palette (apple-I), 
selecting Revolution 2.1.2 under "open with" and making sure you 
pressed the "Change All..." button as well?


On Feb 20, 2004, at 9:40 PM, Jim Lyons wrote:

> I am not a happy camper today. After upgrading to Panther last night, 
> and being disappointed by a number of other OT things, now 
> double-clicking my stacks won't launch my latest version (2.1.2) of 
> Revolution. (Dragging them to the Rev icon or opening from Rev still 
> works fine.) After the upgrade, they launched the 2.0 version I still 
> had in the applications folder instead. I tried resaving a stack under 
> the new version, but double-clicking that stack still launched the old 
> version. So I put the old version in the trash and tried it again. 
> This time I got an "unexpected error" dialog and no launch at all. 
> Then I tried control-clicking a stack and choosing Revolution 2.1 from 
> the Open With... menu; that worked, so I quit and tried 
> double-clicking again. Now it wants to start up the OS9 environment 
> and launch the "fat" version of 2.1!
>
> I restarted the system hoping that would straighten things out. Well, 
> now a few stacks have the normal Rev icon and do open 2.1 -- all of 
> them are downloaded stacks. All the stacks I made and saved with 2.1 
> (and a few other downloaded stacks) now have the "fat" icon and they 
> want to run MacOSFat version under Classic when double-clicked. 
> Aaaaargh!!!
>
> Can any fellow mac types out there help me straighten this mess out? 
> Thanks...
>
> Jim Lyons  8^(
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution


From thierry.arbellot at wanadoo.fr  Fri Feb 20 15:52:58 2004
From: thierry.arbellot at wanadoo.fr (Thierry Arbellot)
Date: Fri, 20 Feb 2004 21:52:58 +0100
Subject: Panther upgrade wrecks stack bindings
In-Reply-To: <079EE3F2-63E5-11D8-8649-000A95893982@earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <C3BF9595-63E6-11D8-9348-000A27E40768@wanadoo.fr>

Hi Jim,

I don't know yet about Panther, but you can try this (it works with 
Jaguar) :

select a stack which extension is rev
open the contextual menu (control-click)
select get info
expand open with
select the Rev app you want to open with
click Change all button

Hope it helps.

Regards.

Thierry.

On Friday, Feb 20, 2004, at 21:40 Europe/Paris, Jim Lyons wrote:

> I am not a happy camper today. After upgrading to Panther last night, 
> and being disappointed by a number of other OT things, now 
> double-clicking my stacks won't launch my latest version (2.1.2) of 
> Revolution. (Dragging them to the Rev icon or opening from Rev still 
> works fine.) After the upgrade, they launched the 2.0 version I still 
> had in the applications folder instead. I tried resaving a stack under 
> the new version, but double-clicking that stack still launched the old 
> version. So I put the old version in the trash and tried it again. 
> This time I got an "unexpected error" dialog and no launch at all. 
> Then I tried control-clicking a stack and choosing Revolution 2.1 from 
> the Open With... menu; that worked, so I quit and tried 
> double-clicking again. Now it wants to start up the OS9 environment 
> and launch the "fat" version of 2.1!
>
> I restarted the system hoping that would straighten things out. Well, 
> now a few stacks have the normal Rev icon and do open 2.1 -- all of 
> them are downloaded stacks. All the stacks I made and saved with 2.1 
> (and a few other downloaded stacks) now have the "fat" icon and they 
> want to run MacOSFat version under Classic when double-clicked. 
> Aaaaargh!!!
>
> Can any fellow mac types out there help me straighten this mess out? 
> Thanks...
>
> Jim Lyons  8^(
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>


From pixelbird at interisland.net  Fri Feb 20 15:57:08 2004
From: pixelbird at interisland.net (Ken Norris)
Date: Fri, 20 Feb 2004 12:57:08 -0800
Subject: Scrolling a Card?
In-Reply-To: <20040220200001.E8C3F93015C@mail.runrev.com>
Message-ID: <BC5BB4A3.517D%pixelbird@interisland.net>

Howdy,

I've had the scrolling working since Ken ray posted the steps.

Now I want to simulate a grab (OH, do I ever wish Rev had a 'grab with
message within rect') which scrolls the group, including the scrollbars to
follow it, of course.

It's quite convoluted, because it needs to:

1) Work within scroll bounds (4 scroll coordinates).

2) Work backwards from a normal grab routine because of the way the scroll
works.

3) Switch cursors.

4) Work only while the mouse is down.

Where might a set of map-grabbing routines be which might help (maps are
usually bigger than the window)?

Has anyone done what I'm talking about? I've been fiddling with it for hours
and can't quite get it. Something is always wrong, either in my max/min
routine, or the cursor offset. My pore ole brain's in a twist.

Maybe there's an easier way I don't know about.

TIA,
Ken N.



From jimlyons at earthlink.net  Fri Feb 20 15:59:12 2004
From: jimlyons at earthlink.net (Jim Lyons)
Date: Fri, 20 Feb 2004 15:59:12 -0500
Subject: Panther upgrade wrecks stack bindings
Message-ID: <A27835D0-63E7-11D8-9836-000A95893982@earthlink.net>

Just about two minutes ago I wrote:

> I am not a happy camper today. After upgrading to Panther last night, 
> and being disappointed by a number of other OT things, now 
> double-clicking my stacks won't launch my latest version (2.1.2) of 
> Revolution. (Dragging them to the Rev icon or opening from Rev still 
> works fine.) After the upgrade, they launched the 2.0 version I still 
> had in the applications folder instead. I tried resaving a stack under 
> the new version, but double-clicking that stack still launched the old 
> version. So I put the old version in the trash and tried it again. 
> This time I got an "unexpected error" dialog and no launch at all. 
> Then I tried control-clicking a stack and choosing Revolution 2.1 from 
> the Open With... menu; that worked, so I quit and tried 
> double-clicking again. Now it wants to start up the OS9 environment 
> and launch the "fat" version of 2.1!
>
> I restarted the system hoping that would straighten things out. Well, 
> now a few stacks have the normal Rev icon and do open 2.1 -- all of 
> them are downloaded stacks. All the stacks I made and saved with 2.1 
> (and a few other downloaded stacks) now have the "fat" icon and they 
> want to run MacOSFat version under Classic when double-clicked. 
> Aaaaargh!!!

How many times have you found the answer right after posting the 
question? This is more than once for me...  Anyway, the solution was to 
go to one of the stacks with the "fat" icon, do Get Info and change the 
Open With... selector to Revolution, and then click the Change All 
button. Even though the icons remained "fat", double-clicking now 
launches my old friend Rev 2.1 under OS X. After restarting, the icons 
resumed their normal appearance. Whew! Hope this saves someone else 
some grief...

Jim Lyons


From ian at azurevision.co.uk  Fri Feb 20 15:52:10 2004
From: ian at azurevision.co.uk (Ian Wood)
Date: Fri, 20 Feb 2004 20:52:10 +0000
Subject: Panther upgrade wrecks stack bindings
In-Reply-To: <079EE3F2-63E5-11D8-8649-000A95893982@earthlink.net>
References: <079EE3F2-63E5-11D8-8649-000A95893982@earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <A7409C0C-63E6-11D8-9B9E-0003935A2896@azurevision.co.uk>

Select one of the incorrectly launching stacks in the Finder, and press 
Apple-I to get the info panel up.  Under 'Open with:' you should be 
able to choose Rev 2.1.2 as the default app for that file.  Then click 
on 'Change All' and after a dialog box (Do you really want to do this?) 
all your stacks should now open in 2.1.2.  You can do the same for 
other file types, e.g. forcing all tiffs to open in Photoshop.

Ian

On 20 Feb 2004, at 20:40, Jim Lyons wrote:

> I am not a happy camper today. After upgrading to Panther last night, 
> and being disappointed by a number of other OT things, now 
> double-clicking my stacks won't launch my latest version (2.1.2) of 
> Revolution. (Dragging them to the Rev icon or opening from Rev still 
> works fine.) After the upgrade, they launched the 2.0 version I still 
> had in the applications folder instead. I tried resaving a stack under 
> the new version, but double-clicking that stack still launched the old 
> version. So I put the old version in the trash and tried it again. 
> This time I got an "unexpected error" dialog and no launch at all. 
> Then I tried control-clicking a stack and choosing Revolution 2.1 from 
> the Open With... menu; that worked, so I quit and tried 
> double-clicking again. Now it wants to start up the OS9 environment 
> and launch the "fat" version of 2.1!
>
> I restarted the system hoping that would straighten things out. Well, 
> now a few stacks have the normal Rev icon and do open 2.1 -- all of 
> them are downloaded stacks. All the stacks I made and saved with 2.1 
> (and a few other downloaded stacks) now have the "fat" icon and they 
> want to run MacOSFat version under Classic when double-clicked. 
> Aaaaargh!!!
>
> Can any fellow mac types out there help me straighten this mess out? 
> Thanks...
>
> Jim Lyons  8^(


From dsc at swcp.com  Fri Feb 20 16:17:13 2004
From: dsc at swcp.com (Dar Scott)
Date: Fri, 20 Feb 2004 14:17:13 -0700
Subject: Add own handlers/scripts to default set
In-Reply-To: <20040220190704.762873DC0@xprdmailfe8.nwk.excite.com>
Message-ID: <2711F1EB-63EA-11D8-BA9E-000A9567A3E6@swcp.com>


On Friday, February 20, 2004, at 12:07 PM, Kevin wrote:

> What steps must I take in order to add handlers I create to the 
> default/standard library?

On approach (mentioned recently, I think by Jeanne) is to use a trivial 
plugin that adds a library or adds a backscript.  Look at the plugin 
options and you will see that you can assign it to run at start and 
even be invisible.

For all I know there might be a plugin out there that looks for such 
libraries in a special folder or looks at its list and does that.

There are always little things I use all the time and I'm always having 
to add them to a stack I'm working on.  It would be nice to add them to 
"Dar's World".  I can use this, too.

Dar Scott


From rcozens at pon.net  Fri Feb 20 15:22:44 2004
From: rcozens at pon.net (Rob Cozens)
Date: Fri, 20 Feb 2004 13:22:44 -0700
Subject: [OT] Cross Mac Platform Text Editing
Message-ID: <a05100301bc5c1c18f2c3@[66.52.165.216]>

>Is there a recommended cross Mac platform text editor?

>  A Revolution field

Once again you provide an excellent solution, Richard!

Works like a charm, and is now incorporated into the SDB Tools plugin 
that will be the focal point of the next release of Serendipity 
Library.

Rob Cozens
CCW, Serendipity Software Company
http://www.oenolog.net/who.htm

"And I, which was two fooles, do so grow three;
Who are a little wise, the best fooles bee."

from "The Triple Foole" by John Donne (1572-1631)

From pixelbird at interisland.net  Fri Feb 20 16:45:13 2004
From: pixelbird at interisland.net (Ken Norris)
Date: Fri, 20 Feb 2004 13:45:13 -0800
Subject: Com ports
In-Reply-To: <20040220200001.E8C3F93015C@mail.runrev.com>
Message-ID: <BC5BBFE9.5181%pixelbird@interisland.net>

Howdy,

I didn't get an answer before, so I'm still hoping...

How can I query to find out if a Com port has a modem?

Ken N.


From pevensen at siboneylg.com  Fri Feb 20 16:45:04 2004
From: pevensen at siboneylg.com (Peter T. Evensen)
Date: Fri, 20 Feb 2004 15:45:04 -0600
Subject: Com ports
In-Reply-To: <BC5BBFE9.5181%pixelbird@interisland.net>
References: <20040220200001.E8C3F93015C@mail.runrev.com>
 <BC5BBFE9.5181%pixelbird@interisland.net>
Message-ID: <6.0.1.1.2.20040220154419.01bd5ec0@SLG_PDC>

Just guessing, but if you send "at" to the port and get back an "ok" that 
should indicate you have a modem attached...

At 03:45 PM 2/20/2004, you wrote:
>Howdy,
>
>I didn't get an answer before, so I'm still hoping...
>
>How can I query to find out if a Com port has a modem?
>
>Ken N.
>
>_______________________________________________
>use-revolution mailing list
>use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
>http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution

Peter T. Evensen
http://www.PetersRoadToHealth.com
24-hour recorded info hotline: 1-800-624-7671 


From devin_asay at byu.edu  Fri Feb 20 16:54:41 2004
From: devin_asay at byu.edu (Devin Asay)
Date: Fri, 20 Feb 2004 14:54:41 -0700
Subject: Does anyone actually USE the Animation Builder?
In-Reply-To: <20040220195958.8ECA7930156@mail.runrev.com>
References: <20040220195958.8ECA7930156@mail.runrev.com>
Message-ID: <62CCFB37-63EF-11D8-A143-000A95A6A138@byu.edu>

Okay, my bad. I've got to finally bite the bullet and establish my 
bugzilla account. Would've saved myself a ton o' time.

Thanks, Chris

Devin

On Feb 20, 2004, at 12:59 PM, Christopher Mitchell wrote:

> Did you see my reply?  This is a known issue in bugzilla, and it is a 
> Mac problem.
>
>
Devin Asay
Humanities Technology and Research Support Center
Brigham Young University


From klaus at major-k.de  Fri Feb 20 17:17:45 2004
From: klaus at major-k.de (Klaus Major)
Date: Fri, 20 Feb 2004 23:17:45 +0100
Subject: Scrolling a Card?
In-Reply-To: <BC5BB4A3.517D%pixelbird@interisland.net>
References: <BC5BB4A3.517D%pixelbird@interisland.net>
Message-ID: <9BC4EF66-63F2-11D8-BFCA-000A27B49A96@major-k.de>

Hi Ken,

> Howdy,
>
> I've had the scrolling working since Ken ray posted the steps.
>
> Now I want to simulate a grab (OH, do I ever wish Rev had a 'grab with
> message within rect') which scrolls the group, including the 
> scrollbars to
> follow it, of course.
>
> It's quite convoluted, because it needs to:
>
> 1) Work within scroll bounds (4 scroll coordinates).
>
> 2) Work backwards from a normal grab routine because of the way the 
> scroll
> works.
>
> 3) Switch cursors.
>
> 4) Work only while the mouse is down.
>
> Where might a set of map-grabbing routines be which might help (maps 
> are
> usually bigger than the window)?
>
> Has anyone done what I'm talking about? I've been fiddling with it for 
> hours
> and can't quite get it. Something is always wrong, either in my max/min
> routine, or the cursor offset. My pore ole brain's in a twist.
>
> Maybe there's an easier way I don't know about.

Try this in the group script.

I might cover item 2, 4 and (with two more lines in "mousedown" ;-) 3 
of your wishlist.

I am not sure if i understand item 1, but this one will get you 
started...


local darfziehen, x1, y1
## darfziehen = german for maydrag

on mousedown
   put true into darfziehen
   put the hScroll of group "xxx"  + the mouseH into x1
   put the vScroll of group "xxx" + the mouseV into y1
end mousedown

on mouseup
   put empty into darfziehen
end mouseup

on mouserelease
   mouseup
end mouserelease

on mousemove x,y
   if darfziehen = empty then exit mousemove
   set the hScroll of group "xxx" to x1 - x
   set the vScroll of group "xxx" to y1 - y
end mousemove

Hope that helps...

> TIA,
> Ken N.

Regards

Klaus Major
klaus at major-k.de
www.major-k.de


From James.Cass at sealedair.com  Fri Feb 20 17:19:52 2004
From: James.Cass at sealedair.com (James.Cass at sealedair.com)
Date: Fri, 20 Feb 2004 17:19:52 -0500
Subject: revcopyfile: preserve file modification date/time
Message-ID: <OF22342842.FB881DCA-ON85256E40.007520CD-85256E40.007B547A@sealedair.com>

What is the best way to preserve file modification date/time  when copied 
to a Windows 2000 server?

I need to preserve the modification date when a file is copied from a 
user's local MacOSX (10.2.x) to a Windows 2000 server.  By default, 
"revcopyfile" does not preserve the mod date.  The copy of the file has a 
mod date/time of when it was copied. 

I found a work-around by using "CpMac -p", and it worked great for a 
while, preserving the mod date/time, but then for some reason, it started 
making the copied file's mod date/time be when it was copied.  And then it 
started working fine again, and now it's back to misbehaving.  So I tried 
using "ditto -rsrcFork" ("ditto --rsrc" in Panther), which works great in 
Panther, but in Jaguar I get a "file name too long" on files whose name is 
longer than 8 characters (violating 8.3).

Thanks in advance,
James


From graham.samuel at wanadoo.fr  Fri Feb 20 17:56:29 2004
From: graham.samuel at wanadoo.fr (Graham Samuel)
Date: Fri, 20 Feb 2004 23:56:29 +0100
Subject: Multilingual apps (was: Re: Beginners global variable pb)
Message-ID: <6.0.1.1.2.20040220235233.01d14648@pop.wanadoo.fr>

In my earlier mail on this I wrote:

>My own preferred option is to go for a simplified manual approach where 
>every string that needs to be changed according to language is set in one 
>particular handler ('setUpParameters'), and I simply read the Welsh (or 
>whatever) text file into a text editor and paste each line directly into 
>the Transcript code, all in one concentrated place in the app. This is 
>crude but in fact works rather well.

Of course this describes a method of changing the (human) language during 
development, not at runtime. I should have said that this can be adapted to 
a runtime method by the use of a text file and a slightly more disciplined 
setUpParameters script which can be edited on the fly. It still seems to me 
to be less labour-intensive in the long run than the Custom Props method.

Graham


---------------------------------------------------
Graham Samuel / The Living Fossil Co. / UK & France  



From pixelbird at interisland.net  Fri Feb 20 18:39:56 2004
From: pixelbird at interisland.net (Ken Norris)
Date: Fri, 20 Feb 2004 15:39:56 -0800
Subject: Scrolling a Card?
In-Reply-To: <20040220215105.004969300A9@mail.runrev.com>
Message-ID: <BC5BDACC.5187%pixelbird@interisland.net>

Howdy,

Can someone please show me how to reverse this line, i.e., make it progress
instead of regress?

put max(gMinHscroll,min(gMaxHscroll,x-gOffsetH)) into gXmove

TIA,
Ken N.


From rcozens at pon.net  Fri Feb 20 17:15:54 2004
From: rcozens at pon.net (Rob Cozens)
Date: Fri, 20 Feb 2004 15:15:54 -0700
Subject: Does anyone actually USE the Animation Builder?
In-Reply-To: <2B72D828-63C6-11D8-B31C-000393B64EDC@lumin.us>
References: <36AA4532-63C2-11D8-AF14-000A95A6A138@byu.edu>
 <2B72D828-63C6-11D8-B31C-000393B64EDC@lumin.us>
Message-ID: <a05100302bc5c1e04665a@[66.52.165.133]>

>I also think this is an OSX only thing,

It's generic to all Mac OS version, AFAIK.
-- 

Rob Cozens
CCW, Serendipity Software Company
http://www.oenolog.net/who.htm

"And I, which was two fooles, do so grow three;
Who are a little wise, the best fooles bee."

from "The Triple Foole" by John Donne (1572-1631)

From rcozens at pon.net  Fri Feb 20 17:45:14 2004
From: rcozens at pon.net (Rob Cozens)
Date: Fri, 20 Feb 2004 15:45:14 -0700
Subject: Multilingual apps (was: Re: Beginners global variable pb)
In-Reply-To: <6.0.1.1.2.20040220193349.01d26238@pop3.blueyonder.co.uk>
References: <6.0.1.1.2.20040220193349.01d26238@pop3.blueyonder.co.uk>
Message-ID: <a05100303bc5c1eb38f5f@[66.52.165.133]>

>My own preferred option is to go for a simplified manual approach 
>where every string that needs to be changed according to language is 
>set in one particular handler ('setUpParameters'), and I simply read 
>the Welsh (or whatever) text file into a text editor and paste each 
>line directly into the Transcript code, all in one concentrated 
>place in the app. This is crude but in fact works rather well.

Graham, et al:

My approach is to load the entire text file into a library field when 
changing languages, and to load that text field into a library local 
variable when the library is put in use.

Each one-line message in the file is referenced as a constant, eg:

	constant sdbFileMenu=1
	constant sdbEditMenu=2
	constant sdbIOError=3
	constant sdbQuitMenuItem=4
	constant sdbOKTranslated=113

Scripts retrieve the messages via a function call: sdbMessage, along 
the lines of

	function sdbMessage(messageLineNumber)
		local sdbMessages
		return line messageLineNumber of sdbMessages
	end sdbMessage

So my handlers look something like:

on preOpenStack
   set the name of button 1 of group "Stack Menubar" to sdbMessage(sdbFileMenu)
   set the text of button 1 of group "Stack Menubar" to 
sdbMessage(sdbQuitMenuItem)
end preOpenStack

on menuPick thePick
   put sdbMessage(sdbQuitMenuItem) into quitMe
   switch thePick
     case quitMe
       quit
       break
   end switch
end menuPick

on displayError errorDetail
   beep
   answer error sdbMessage(sdbIOError)&&":"&&errorDetail with 
sdbMessage(sdbOKTranslated)
   exit to top
end display error

So handler text is never changed and the message is resolved AT 
RUNTIME either when a new message file is loaded into the library or 
at startup when necessary (eg: for standalones).

With the exception of the fact that each constant must be declared in 
every script that references it, I find this approach effective & 
straightforward.

AND, as I alluded to above, since no script changes need occur, your 
application can be distributed in one version supporting any 
(single-byte character) language without modification....including 
languages not supported in the original distribution.  Viola! your 
application can be translated by any user with a text editor.

There are examples of this in virtually all components of Serendipity 
Library <http://www.oenolog.net/ftp/serendipity_downloader.htm>.
-- 

Rob Cozens
CCW, Serendipity Software Company
http://www.oenolog.net/who.htm

"And I, which was two fooles, do so grow three;
Who are a little wise, the best fooles bee."

from "The Triple Foole" by John Donne (1572-1631)

From chrism at lumin.us  Fri Feb 20 18:53:43 2004
From: chrism at lumin.us (Christopher Mitchell)
Date: Fri, 20 Feb 2004 17:53:43 -0600
Subject: Scrolling a Card?
In-Reply-To: <9BC4EF66-63F2-11D8-BFCA-000A27B49A96@major-k.de>
References: <BC5BB4A3.517D%pixelbird@interisland.net>
	<9BC4EF66-63F2-11D8-BFCA-000A27B49A96@major-k.de>
Message-ID: <03C40071-6400-11D8-95C7-000393B64EDC@lumin.us>

Klaus,

Could you please explain under what circumstances this handler would 
require to be explicitly declared?  This seems like something implicit 
to the engine, and if not handled reliably then how many other things 
need to be re-defined?

Yours,
Chris
On Feb 20, 2004, at 4:17 PM, Klaus Major wrote:
>
> on mouserelease
>   mouseup
> end mouserelease


From dsc at swcp.com  Fri Feb 20 18:56:32 2004
From: dsc at swcp.com (Dar Scott)
Date: Fri, 20 Feb 2004 16:56:32 -0700
Subject: Scrolling a Card?
In-Reply-To: <BC5BDACC.5187%pixelbird@interisland.net>
Message-ID: <68A9785E-6400-11D8-BA9E-000A9567A3E6@swcp.com>


On Friday, February 20, 2004, at 04:39 PM, Ken Norris wrote:

> put max(gMinHscroll,min(gMaxHscroll,x-gOffsetH)) into gXmove

I can only guess what you are doing.  My guess:

put max(gMinHscroll,min(gMaxHscroll, -(x-gOffsetH) )) into gXmove

Dar Scott


From rcozens at pon.net  Fri Feb 20 17:58:10 2004
From: rcozens at pon.net (Rob Cozens)
Date: Fri, 20 Feb 2004 15:58:10 -0700
Subject: Binary objects
In-Reply-To: <4035D6B9.6030009@act-net.com>
References: <4035D6B9.6030009@act-net.com>
Message-ID: <a05100304bc5c3f1c2c9f@[66.52.165.133]>

>Could someone here point me to the right place in the documentation 
>where handling binary objects and parsing them is described?

Welcome aboard, Marc.

Handling I can help you with, parsing is another matter.

The Transcript open file command includes a text/binary argument.

The get URL & put URL commands also allow syntax to specify text or 
binary treatment of a file's contents.  Assuming you wish to load the 
entire image, you will probably pick get URL over open file syntax.

As for parsing, you might check out the bitAnd, bitNot, bitOr, & 
bitXor operators.

Hope this helps
-- 

Rob Cozens
CCW, Serendipity Software Company
http://www.oenolog.net/who.htm

"And I, which was two fooles, do so grow three;
Who are a little wise, the best fooles bee."

from "The Triple Foole" by John Donne (1572-1631)

From rcozens at pon.net  Fri Feb 20 18:11:25 2004
From: rcozens at pon.net (Rob Cozens)
Date: Fri, 20 Feb 2004 16:11:25 -0700
Subject: Add own handlers/scripts to default set
In-Reply-To: <20040220190704.762873DC0@xprdmailfe8.nwk.excite.com>
References: <20040220190704.762873DC0@xprdmailfe8.nwk.excite.com>
Message-ID: <a05100305bc5c41dcd231@[66.52.165.133]>

>What steps must I take in order to add handlers I create to the 
>default/standard library?

Hi Kevin,

It depends...

If your handlers provide additional functionality to the Developer's 
environment, placing them in the script of a stack and placing that 
stack in the Revolution Plugin folder might do.

If your handlers are called during runtime by one or more standalones 
and/or stacks, Revolution expects you to create a library stack of 
your own, place your handlers in that stack's script, and add logic 
to the other stacks that use your library to issue a startup command 
to start using the library.

As an additional option, one can place the handlers in the script of 
a control, and then place that script in the frontStacks or 
backStacks.
-- 

Rob Cozens
CCW, Serendipity Software Company
http://www.oenolog.net/who.htm

"And I, which was two fooles, do so grow three;
Who are a little wise, the best fooles bee."

from "The Triple Foole" by John Donne (1572-1631)

From rcozens at pon.net  Fri Feb 20 18:26:38 2004
From: rcozens at pon.net (Rob Cozens)
Date: Fri, 20 Feb 2004 16:26:38 -0700
Subject: revcopyfile: preserve file modification date/time
In-Reply-To:  <OF22342842.FB881DCA-ON85256E40.007520CD-85256E40.007B547A@sealedair.com>
References:  <OF22342842.FB881DCA-ON85256E40.007520CD-85256E40.007B547A@sealedair.com>
Message-ID: <a05100306bc5c45089110@[66.52.165.133]>

>What is the best way to preserve file modification date/time  when copied
>to a Windows 2000 server?

Hi James,

The detailed version of the files function returns, among other 
things, the modification dates for each file in the defaultFolder. 
So one needs to:

A.  Save the defaultFolder if it needs restoration
B   Set the defaultFolder to the folder containing the file
C.  Get the detailed files
D.  Parse the list to find the line for the file*
E.  Get the date as item 5 of that line
F.  Restore original defaultFolder, if necessary

*Note in step D that the file's name is returned URL-encoded.

Now you have the modification date.  How you get the Windows server 
to retain or reset that date is beyond my scope of experience.
-- 

Rob Cozens
CCW, Serendipity Software Company
http://www.oenolog.net/who.htm

"And I, which was two fooles, do so grow three;
Who are a little wise, the best fooles bee."

from "The Triple Foole" by John Donne (1572-1631)

From shedrup at ms9.hinet.net  Fri Feb 20 19:48:15 2004
From: shedrup at ms9.hinet.net (Friedrich F. Grohmann)
Date: Sat, 21 Feb 2004 08:48:15 +0800
Subject: save dialogue stuck
Message-ID: <200402210046.IAA29990@msr84.hinet.net>

Regarding the possible causes of my problem Marian kindly pointed out, 
no, I don't use the App Browser here. I opened it once when I began to 
work on the stack under Rev to verify the composition of the background, 
and it took what felt like minutes to display the innards finally. I 
thought it might have to do with the number of cards. Since then, I've 
saved myself the time and nerves and abstain from taking recourse to the 
App Browser with this particular project.

As to the question of the save being only slow or really hung, it would 
suppose it has finished, at least judging from the change of of cursor 
and the last line displayed in the window.

Fritz



On Feb 21, 2004, at 0:05 AM, Marian Petrides wrote:

>I have not encountered this problem, but I have found that in a stack 
>with LOTS of objects on each card if I have the application browser 
>open it takes a very long time for me to be able to go from the arrow 
>selection cursor (select a text field to unlock it) to the grabber hand 
>(to edit the text in the field).   If I close the Application Browser 
>window, ::::poof:::: things go back to their normal speedy pace.
>
>Is the App Browser window open when you try to save?  Have you tried 
>closing it?  Maybe that will speed things up--assuming that the save 
>isn't actually hung, just excrutiatingly slow.
>
>M
>On Feb 20, 2004, at 10:58 AM, Friedrich F. Grohmann wrote:
>

>> What irritates me a little bit is that the "Save ..." screen gets quite
>> often stuck. The cursor turns into a hand and no clicking helps to 
>> remove
>> the window. I have to save again. Both screens will overlap for some 
>> time
>> and then disappear as expected. What could be the reason for this
>> annoying behaviour? How could it be avoided?
>>
>> Thanks in advance.

From chrism at lumin.us  Fri Feb 20 19:55:03 2004
From: chrism at lumin.us (Christopher Mitchell)
Date: Fri, 20 Feb 2004 18:55:03 -0600
Subject: simple local variable question
Message-ID: <95750750-6408-11D8-95C7-000393B64EDC@lumin.us>

Howdy,

I'm declaring some local variables at the top of a card script that I 
need to use in several handlers... here is a simplified recipe question 
that will help me understand why I'm not able to access the values I'm 
assigning to them:

--card script begins here

local rotAngle
put 20 into rotAngle

on mouseUp
    answer rotAngle
end mouseUp

--

My question is, why does this not put up an answer dialog with "20" in 
it? the dialog that comes up is empty.

Thanks,
Chris


From chrism at lumin.us  Fri Feb 20 19:57:17 2004
From: chrism at lumin.us (Christopher Mitchell)
Date: Fri, 20 Feb 2004 18:57:17 -0600
Subject: revcopyfile: preserve file modification date/time
In-Reply-To: <a05100306bc5c45089110@[66.52.165.133]>
References: 	<OF22342842.FB881DCA-ON85256E40.007520CD-85256E40.007B547A@sealedair.com>
	<a05100306bc5c45089110@[66.52.165.133]>
Message-ID: <E5288B18-6408-11D8-95C7-000393B64EDC@lumin.us>

I would almost suggest that saving an internal modification timestamp 
and retrieving it as necessary might be easier than forcing any given 
system to hack its own awareness of the last modification time of a 
file.  I would definitely be interested in hearing how to set Windows 
mod dates though if it is possible.

Yours,
Chris
On Feb 20, 2004, at 5:26 PM, Rob Cozens wrote:

>> What is the best way to preserve file modification date/time  when 
>> copied
>> to a Windows 2000 server?
>
> Hi James,
>
> The detailed version of the files function returns, among other 
> things, the modification dates for each file in the defaultFolder. So 
> one needs to:
>
> A.  Save the defaultFolder if it needs restoration
> B   Set the defaultFolder to the folder containing the file
> C.  Get the detailed files
> D.  Parse the list to find the line for the file*
> E.  Get the date as item 5 of that line
> F.  Restore original defaultFolder, if necessary
>
> *Note in step D that the file's name is returned URL-encoded.
>
> Now you have the modification date.  How you get the Windows server to 
> retain or reset that date is beyond my scope of experience.
> -- 
>
> Rob Cozens
> CCW, Serendipity Software Company
> http://www.oenolog.net/who.htm
>
> "And I, which was two fooles, do so grow three;
> Who are a little wise, the best fooles bee."
>
> from "The Triple Foole" by John Donne (1572-1631)
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>


From davis.phil at comcast.net  Fri Feb 20 20:20:58 2004
From: davis.phil at comcast.net (Phil Davis)
Date: Fri, 20 Feb 2004 17:20:58 -0800
Subject: simple local variable question
References: <95750750-6408-11D8-95C7-000393B64EDC@lumin.us>
Message-ID: <002801c3f818$f68ff940$9d7ba8c0@RON7XP>

----- Original Message -----
From: "Christopher Mitchell" <chrism at lumin.us>
To: "How to use Revolution" <use-revolution at lists.runrev.com>
Sent: Friday, February 20, 2004 4:55 PM
Subject: simple local variable question


> Howdy,
>
> I'm declaring some local variables at the top of a card script that I
> need to use in several handlers... here is a simplified recipe question
> that will help me understand why I'm not able to access the values I'm
> assigning to them:
>
> --card script begins here
>
> local rotAngle
> put 20 into rotAngle
>
> on mouseUp
>     answer rotAngle
> end mouseUp
>
> --
>
> My question is, why does this not put up an answer dialog with "20" in
> it? the dialog that comes up is empty.


It comes up empty because nothing can ever cause 'rotAngle' to be set. Any
executable code not inside a handler can never be executed.

Phil Davis


>
> Thanks,
> Chris


From dsc at swcp.com  Fri Feb 20 20:21:19 2004
From: dsc at swcp.com (Dar Scott)
Date: Fri, 20 Feb 2004 18:21:19 -0700
Subject: simple local variable question
In-Reply-To: <95750750-6408-11D8-95C7-000393B64EDC@lumin.us>
Message-ID: <40BFDE74-640C-11D8-BA9E-000A9567A3E6@swcp.com>


On Friday, February 20, 2004, at 05:55 PM, Christopher Mitchell wrote:

> --card script begins here
>
> local rotAngle
> put 20 into rotAngle
>
> on mouseUp
>    answer rotAngle
> end mouseUp
>
> --

Does this help?
--card script begins here

local rotAngle = 20

on mouseUp
    answer rotAngle
end mouseUp

--

See "About... the structure of a script" in the doc.

> My question is, why does this not put up an answer dialog with "20" in 
> it? the dialog that comes up is empty.

Another question might be why doesn't the compiler complain.  I have 
gotten the impression is that this is for some legacy code in which 
people hide data in scripts for some reason.

Dar Scott


From nnoydb at excite.com  Fri Feb 20 20:43:15 2004
From: nnoydb at excite.com (Kevin)
Date: Fri, 20 Feb 2004 20:43:15 -0500 (EST)
Subject: Immediate/Compile Time Execution for "USING" library STACKS
Message-ID: <20040221014315.F04E63DCF@xprdmailfe12.nwk.excite.com>


Okay, this is anoying.   Does any one know of a API or contruct to execute Transcript at "complile time"  (since in a intrepretative lnaguage there is really no such animal).  In traditional TILs there a keywords such as IMMEDIATE, .IF .ELSE, .THEN, COMPILE and [COMPILE].  Since I believe Transcript is a TIL these constructs should exist.  I am wold like to use such constructs to create a "include" that would operate using a default LIBRARY PATH or possibly even create a "plugin" that would have a XML based project file.  Any suggestions?

I have already created a "handler" to force parameters (aka make them manadatory) it is called manatory.  It is raw but functional.  I am also working on a dialog the  generates a error message with the call stack detail should anyone find it useful.

Kevin



_______________________________________________
Join Excite! - http://www.excite.com
The most personalized portal on the Web!

From nnoydb at excite.com  Fri Feb 20 20:51:44 2004
From: nnoydb at excite.com (Kevin)
Date: Fri, 20 Feb 2004 20:51:44 -0500 (EST)
Subject: Immediate/Compile Time Execution for 
Message-ID: <20040221015144.3CB233DD0@xprdmailfe12.nwk.excite.com>


 
Note: I am looking into "do".


--- On Fri 02/20, Kevin < nnoydb at excite.com > wrote:
From: Kevin [mailto: nnoydb at excite.com]
To: use-revolution at runrev.com
Date: Fri, 20 Feb 2004 20:43:15 -0500 (EST)
Subject: Immediate/Compile Time Execution for "USING" library STACKS

<br>Okay, this is anoying.   Does any one know of a API or contruct to execute Transcript at &quot;complile time&quot;  (since in a intrepretative lnaguage there is really no such animal).  In traditional TILs there a keywords such as IMMEDIATE, .IF .ELSE, .THEN, COMPILE and [COMPILE].  Since I believe Transcript is a TIL these constructs should exist.  I am wold like to use such constructs to create a &quot;include&quot; that would operate using a default LIBRARY PATH or possibly even create a &quot;plugin&quot; that would have a XML based project file.  Any suggestions?<br><br>I have already created a &quot;handler&quot; to force parameters (aka make them manadatory) it is called manatory.  It is raw but functional.  I am also working on a dialog the  generates a error message with the call stack detail should anyone find it useful.<br><br>Kevin<br><br><br><br>_______________________________________________<br>Join Excite! - http://www.excite.com<br>The most personalized portal on the Web!<br>_______________________________________________<br>use-revolution mailing list<br>use-revolution at lists.runrev.com<br>http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution<br>

_______________________________________________
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From jacque at hyperactivesw.com  Fri Feb 20 21:09:37 2004
From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay)
Date: Fri, 20 Feb 2004 20:09:37 -0600
Subject: Scrolling a Card?
In-Reply-To: <03C40071-6400-11D8-95C7-000393B64EDC@lumin.us>
References: <BC5BB4A3.517D%pixelbird@interisland.net>
	<9BC4EF66-63F2-11D8-BFCA-000A27B49A96@major-k.de>
	<03C40071-6400-11D8-95C7-000393B64EDC@lumin.us>
Message-ID: <4036BDE1.9020906@hyperactivesw.com>

On 2/20/04 5:53 PM, Christopher Mitchell wrote:
> Could you please explain under what circumstances this handler would 
> require to be explicitly declared?  This seems like something implicit 
> to the engine, and if not handled reliably then how many other things 
> need to be re-defined?

That's not exactly how it works; it isn't about defining but rather 
about access. Globals exist in memory until Rev quits, or until you 
issue a command to explicitly delete them. A variable is "global" 
because it is persistent for the entire current session. But to actually 
use it, it must be explicitly declared in any code that wants to access 
it. For convenience, you can define the scope of the global by simply 
placing the declaration at the right level in the script.

The most basic level is the handler. If you only have one or two 
handlers that need to use that global, then it makes sense to declare 
the global only in those handlers. The global variable will be unknown 
and invisible to any other handler, and if you happen to use a 
same-named variable within those other handlers, the variable will be 
treated like a local. That's because those other handlers don't know the 
global exists.

But the two handlers that do declare the global will both be able to 
"see" it:

on summIt
  global num1,num2 -- assume these already have values
  put sum(num1,num2) -- put the sum into the msg box
end summIt

on subtractIt
  global num1, num2
  put num1 - num2
end subtractIt


If, however, you have a whole bunch of handlers that need to access a 
global, and those handlers are all in the same script, then you can move 
the placement up a level and declare the global outside of any handler. 
That makes it available to any handler in the script. Usually these 
script-wide globals are declared at the top of the script:

global num1,num2

on summIt
  put sum(num1,num2)
end summIt

on subtractIt
  put num1 - num2
end subtractIt

on divIt
  put num1/num2
end summIt

on multiplyIt
  put num1 * num2
end subtractIt


There is no way to declare the scope of a global stack-wide. You'll have 
to declare it in every script that uses it.

You can create globals, fill them with values, see them in the variable 
watcher, and let them take up memory, but if no handler or script ever 
declares them, then they will remain invisible to your code.

-- 
Jacqueline Landman Gay         |     jacque at hyperactivesw.com
HyperActive Software           |     http://www.hyperactivesw.com

From jacque at hyperactivesw.com  Fri Feb 20 21:30:18 2004
From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay)
Date: Fri, 20 Feb 2004 20:30:18 -0600
Subject: save dialogue stuck
In-Reply-To: <200402210046.IAA29990@msr84.hinet.net>
References: <200402210046.IAA29990@msr84.hinet.net>
Message-ID: <4036C2BA.1080100@hyperactivesw.com>

On 2/20/04 6:48 PM, Friedrich F. Grohmann wrote:

> As to the question of the save being only slow or really hung, it would 
> suppose it has finished, at least judging from the change of of cursor 
> and the last line displayed in the window.

You mentioned this was a fairly large stack, as Rev goes. 5,500 cards is 
pretty much the limit in Rev. A stack this size will normally take a 
while to save. I've also noticed that sometimes you have to move the 
cursor outside the window and back again before it will redraw, so the 
shape you see may not always tell you what the actual state is. Try 
moving the mouse to check, before resorting to a second "save".

Since this is an imported HC stack, there may be other problems too. It 
is very important to compact the stack in HC at least twice in a row 
before importing it to Revolution, especially one this large. If the 
stack was not thoroughly compacted before import, there could be lots of 
extraneous junk in there that is slowing down the save process in Rev. 
This seems a likely culprit to me.

I know you've already put a lot of work into this, so you may not want 
to go back and do it all over. If you're feeling ambitious though, you 
could thoroughly compact in HC, open the stack in Rev, change its name 
temporarily (so that you can open your original import at the same time) 
and then copy/paste scripts from the older copy into the new one. See if 
it saves faster.

Finally, try setting the HCAddressing property to false. You don't need 
it in Rev. I don't really think this will make all that much difference, 
but I usually do it anyway. It does affect some aspects of stack 
behavior sometimes, and you don't need it to be true when working in 
Revolution.

-- 
Jacqueline Landman Gay         |     jacque at hyperactivesw.com
HyperActive Software           |     http://www.hyperactivesw.com

From cassj at earthlink.net  Fri Feb 20 21:45:59 2004
From: cassj at earthlink.net (James Cass)
Date: Fri, 20 Feb 2004 21:45:59 -0500
Subject: revcopyfile: preserve file modification date/time
In-Reply-To: <E5288B18-6408-11D8-95C7-000393B64EDC@lumin.us>
References: 	<OF22342842.FB881DCA-ON85256E40.007520CD-85256E40.007B547A@sealedair.com>
	<a05100306bc5c45089110@[66.52.165.133]>
	<E5288B18-6408-11D8-95C7-000393B64EDC@lumin.us>
Message-ID: <147ADD5E-6418-11D8-B9FE-000393738BF6@earthlink.net>

Thanks for all the help.  The folder where the file is has thousands of 
files, and getting files details is just way too slow.  However, I 
think I've found a work-around.  On http://www.macosxhints.com, I found 
a reference to a terminal command called "SetFile".  It's available 
here (/Developer/Tools/SetFile) after you install Developer Tools.  Try 
a "man SetFile" at the Terminal for more info.

To change the modification date of a file just do this:  SetFile -m 
"8/4/2001 16:13" myFile
To change the creation date of a file just do this:  SetFile -d 
"8/4/2001 16:13" myFile

I just tested this and I can change the modification date/time for a 
file on a Windows 2000 Server where I do not have admin privileges, so 
this might do the trick.  I won't know for certain until I test it on a 
user's machine.

Thanks again for the advice...James



On Feb 20, 2004, at 7:57 PM, Christopher Mitchell wrote:

> I would almost suggest that saving an internal modification timestamp 
> and retrieving it as necessary might be easier than forcing any given 
> system to hack its own awareness of the last modification time of a 
> file.  I would definitely be interested in hearing how to set Windows 
> mod dates though if it is possible.
>
> Yours,
> Chris
> On Feb 20, 2004, at 5:26 PM, Rob Cozens wrote:
>
>>> What is the best way to preserve file modification date/time  when 
>>> copied
>>> to a Windows 2000 server?
>>
>> Hi James,
>>
>> The detailed version of the files function returns, among other 
>> things, the modification dates for each file in the defaultFolder. So 
>> one needs to:
>>
>> A.  Save the defaultFolder if it needs restoration
>> B   Set the defaultFolder to the folder containing the file
>> C.  Get the detailed files
>> D.  Parse the list to find the line for the file*
>> E.  Get the date as item 5 of that line
>> F.  Restore original defaultFolder, if necessary
>>
>> *Note in step D that the file's name is returned URL-encoded.
>>
>> Now you have the modification date.  How you get the Windows server 
>> to retain or reset that date is beyond my scope of experience.
>> -- 
>>
>> Rob Cozens
>> CCW, Serendipity Software Company
>> http://www.oenolog.net/who.htm
>>
>> "And I, which was two fooles, do so grow three;
>> Who are a little wise, the best fooles bee."
>>
>> from "The Triple Foole" by John Donne (1572-1631)
>> _______________________________________________
>> use-revolution mailing list
>> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>>
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>


From chrism at lumin.us  Fri Feb 20 22:05:40 2004
From: chrism at lumin.us (Christopher Mitchell)
Date: Fri, 20 Feb 2004 21:05:40 -0600
Subject: simple local variable question
In-Reply-To: <002801c3f818$f68ff940$9d7ba8c0@RON7XP>
References: <95750750-6408-11D8-95C7-000393B64EDC@lumin.us>
	<002801c3f818$f68ff940$9d7ba8c0@RON7XP>
Message-ID: <D4AD3594-641A-11D8-95C7-000393B64EDC@lumin.us>

ahh.  i suspect putting this in an onCardOpen handler will do the trick 
then, thanks for the kick in the logical pants. :)

Yours,
Chris
On Feb 20, 2004, at 7:20 PM, Phil Davis wrote:

> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Christopher Mitchell" <chrism at lumin.us>
> To: "How to use Revolution" <use-revolution at lists.runrev.com>
> Sent: Friday, February 20, 2004 4:55 PM
> Subject: simple local variable question
>
>
>> Howdy,
>>
>> I'm declaring some local variables at the top of a card script that I
>> need to use in several handlers... here is a simplified recipe 
>> question
>> that will help me understand why I'm not able to access the values I'm
>> assigning to them:
>>
>> --card script begins here
>>
>> local rotAngle
>> put 20 into rotAngle
>>
>> on mouseUp
>>     answer rotAngle
>> end mouseUp
>>
>> --
>>
>> My question is, why does this not put up an answer dialog with "20" in
>> it? the dialog that comes up is empty.
>
>
> It comes up empty because nothing can ever cause 'rotAngle' to be set. 
> Any
> executable code not inside a handler can never be executed.
>
> Phil Davis
>
>
>>
>> Thanks,
>> Chris
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>


From chipp at chipp.com  Sat Feb 21 01:24:08 2004
From: chipp at chipp.com (Chipp Walters)
Date: Sat, 21 Feb 2004 00:24:08 -0600
Subject: Immediate/Compile Time Execution for "USING" library STACKS
In-Reply-To: <20040221014315.F04E63DCF@xprdmailfe12.nwk.excite.com>
References: <20040221014315.F04E63DCF@xprdmailfe12.nwk.excite.com>
Message-ID: <4036F988.6050608@chipp.com>

Kevin,

You might want to check out the scriptLimits function. You can't run 
outside scripts longer than 10 lines from a standalone.

-Chipp




From chrism at lumin.us  Sat Feb 21 01:34:44 2004
From: chrism at lumin.us (Christopher Mitchell)
Date: Sat, 21 Feb 2004 00:34:44 -0600
Subject: simple local variable question
In-Reply-To: <002801c3f818$f68ff940$9d7ba8c0@RON7XP>
References: <95750750-6408-11D8-95C7-000393B64EDC@lumin.us>
	<002801c3f818$f68ff940$9d7ba8c0@RON7XP>
Message-ID: <0965FF1E-6438-11D8-95C7-000393B64EDC@lumin.us>

However, that is contrary to the documentation for the local command:

You create a script local variable by using the local command in a 
script, outside any handlers in the script.
(pasted from transcript dictionary)

So I'm still not convinced that it must be in a handler, or if so then 
the documentation is misleading.

Yours,
Chris
On Feb 20, 2004, at 7:20 PM, Phil Davis wrote:

> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Christopher Mitchell" <chrism at lumin.us>
> To: "How to use Revolution" <use-revolution at lists.runrev.com>
> Sent: Friday, February 20, 2004 4:55 PM
> Subject: simple local variable question
>
>
>> Howdy,
>>
>> I'm declaring some local variables at the top of a card script that I
>> need to use in several handlers... here is a simplified recipe 
>> question
>> that will help me understand why I'm not able to access the values I'm
>> assigning to them:
>>
>> --card script begins here
>>
>> local rotAngle
>> put 20 into rotAngle
>>
>> on mouseUp
>>     answer rotAngle
>> end mouseUp
>>
>> --
>>
>> My question is, why does this not put up an answer dialog with "20" in
>> it? the dialog that comes up is empty.
>
>
> It comes up empty because nothing can ever cause 'rotAngle' to be set. 
> Any
> executable code not inside a handler can never be executed.
>
> Phil Davis
>
>
>>
>> Thanks,
>> Chris
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>


From chrism at lumin.us  Sat Feb 21 01:44:17 2004
From: chrism at lumin.us (Christopher Mitchell)
Date: Sat, 21 Feb 2004 00:44:17 -0600
Subject: simple local variable question
In-Reply-To: <40BFDE74-640C-11D8-BA9E-000A9567A3E6@swcp.com>
References: <40BFDE74-640C-11D8-BA9E-000A9567A3E6@swcp.com>
Message-ID: <5E94E1B8-6439-11D8-95C7-000393B64EDC@lumin.us>

Dar,

This seems to have helped.  Evidently although the script local 
variables are declared outside handlers, the put assignment is not 
evaluated so they must be initialized in the declaration if they need 
initial values.  If they were all dynamic values perhaps declaring at 
the top then immediately following with a set of initialization 
assignments in cardOpen.

Thanks very much.

Yours,
Chris
On Feb 20, 2004, at 7:21 PM, Dar Scott wrote:

>
> On Friday, February 20, 2004, at 05:55 PM, Christopher Mitchell wrote:
>
>> --card script begins here
>>
>> local rotAngle
>> put 20 into rotAngle
>>
>> on mouseUp
>>    answer rotAngle
>> end mouseUp
>>
>> --
>
> Does this help?
> --card script begins here
>
> local rotAngle = 20
>
> on mouseUp
>    answer rotAngle
> end mouseUp
>
> --
>
> See "About... the structure of a script" in the doc.
>
>> My question is, why does this not put up an answer dialog with "20" 
>> in it? the dialog that comes up is empty.
>
> Another question might be why doesn't the compiler complain.  I have 
> gotten the impression is that this is for some legacy code in which 
> people hide data in scripts for some reason.
>
> Dar Scott
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>


From chrism at lumin.us  Sat Feb 21 01:51:57 2004
From: chrism at lumin.us (Christopher Mitchell)
Date: Sat, 21 Feb 2004 00:51:57 -0600
Subject: simple local variable question
In-Reply-To: <5E94E1B8-6439-11D8-95C7-000393B64EDC@lumin.us>
References: <40BFDE74-640C-11D8-BA9E-000A9567A3E6@swcp.com>
	<5E94E1B8-6439-11D8-95C7-000393B64EDC@lumin.us>
Message-ID: <7140E0DC-643A-11D8-95C7-000393B64EDC@lumin.us>

er, or openCard rather...


On Feb 21, 2004, at 12:44 AM, Christopher Mitchell wrote:

> Dar,
>
> This seems to have helped.  Evidently although the script local 
> variables are declared outside handlers, the put assignment is not 
> evaluated so they must be initialized in the declaration if they need 
> initial values.  If they were all dynamic values perhaps declaring at 
> the top then immediately following with a set of initialization 
> assignments in cardOpen.
>
> Thanks very much.
>
> Yours,
> Chris
> On Feb 20, 2004, at 7:21 PM, Dar Scott wrote:
>
>>
>> On Friday, February 20, 2004, at 05:55 PM, Christopher Mitchell wrote:
>>
>>> --card script begins here
>>>
>>> local rotAngle
>>> put 20 into rotAngle
>>>
>>> on mouseUp
>>>    answer rotAngle
>>> end mouseUp
>>>
>>> --
>>
>> Does this help?
>> --card script begins here
>>
>> local rotAngle = 20
>>
>> on mouseUp
>>    answer rotAngle
>> end mouseUp
>>
>> --
>>
>> See "About... the structure of a script" in the doc.
>>
>>> My question is, why does this not put up an answer dialog with "20" 
>>> in it? the dialog that comes up is empty.
>>
>> Another question might be why doesn't the compiler complain.  I have 
>> gotten the impression is that this is for some legacy code in which 
>> people hide data in scripts for some reason.
>>
>> Dar Scott
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> use-revolution mailing list
>> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>>
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>


From davis.phil at comcast.net  Sat Feb 21 02:14:38 2004
From: davis.phil at comcast.net (Phil Davis)
Date: Fri, 20 Feb 2004 23:14:38 -0800
Subject: simple local variable question
In-Reply-To: <0965FF1E-6438-11D8-95C7-000393B64EDC@lumin.us>
Message-ID: <ILEFKEGKNEFMMOILLJNOOECGCFAA.davis.phil@comcast.net>

Sorry for the confusion. You're absolutely correct about being able to
declare a local variable outside any handlers. I was mentally segregating
declarative code statements...

  local rotAngle

... into a different category than non-declarative (imperative?) code
statements, which have no way (AFAIK) of being executed apart from a
handler...

  put 20 into rotAngle

I could be wrong, but that's my understanding. My motto: When in doubt,
test! Test results are often misunderstood, but they never lie!  :o)

Phil Davis


> -----Original Message-----
> From: use-revolution-bounces at lists.runrev.com
> [mailto:use-revolution-bounces at lists.runrev.com]On Behalf Of Christopher
> Mitchell
> Sent: Friday, February 20, 2004 10:35 PM
> To: How to use Revolution
> Subject: Re: simple local variable question
>
>
> However, that is contrary to the documentation for the local command:
>
> You create a script local variable by using the local command in a
> script, outside any handlers in the script.
> (pasted from transcript dictionary)
>
> So I'm still not convinced that it must be in a handler, or if so then
> the documentation is misleading.
>
> Yours,
> Chris
> On Feb 20, 2004, at 7:20 PM, Phil Davis wrote:
>
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Christopher Mitchell" <chrism at lumin.us>
> > To: "How to use Revolution" <use-revolution at lists.runrev.com>
> > Sent: Friday, February 20, 2004 4:55 PM
> > Subject: simple local variable question
> >
> >
> >> Howdy,
> >>
> >> I'm declaring some local variables at the top of a card script that I
> >> need to use in several handlers... here is a simplified recipe
> >> question
> >> that will help me understand why I'm not able to access the values I'm
> >> assigning to them:
> >>
> >> --card script begins here
> >>
> >> local rotAngle
> >> put 20 into rotAngle
> >>
> >> on mouseUp
> >>     answer rotAngle
> >> end mouseUp
> >>
> >> --
> >>
> >> My question is, why does this not put up an answer dialog with "20" in
> >> it? the dialog that comes up is empty.
> >
> >
> > It comes up empty because nothing can ever cause 'rotAngle' to be set.
> > Any
> > executable code not inside a handler can never be executed.
> >
> > Phil Davis
> >
> >
> >>
> >> Thanks,
> >> Chris
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > use-revolution mailing list
> > use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
> >
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution


From kray at sonsothunder.com  Sat Feb 21 02:14:25 2004
From: kray at sonsothunder.com (Ken Ray)
Date: Sat, 21 Feb 2004 01:14:25 -0600
Subject: Immediate/Compile Time Execution for "USING" library STACKS
In-Reply-To: <20040221014315.F04E63DCF@xprdmailfe12.nwk.excite.com>
Message-ID: <043d01c3f84a$59f23620$6601a8c0@LightningFlash>

Kevin,

When you say "at compile time", do you mean when the script editor
closes (i.e. at the time the script is parsed)? Or some other time?

What exactly are you trying to do?

Ken Ray
Sons of Thunder Software
Email: kray at sonsothunder.com
Web Site: http://www.sonsothunder.com/ 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: use-revolution-bounces at lists.runrev.com 
> [mailto:use-revolution-bounces at lists.runrev.com] On Behalf Of Kevin
> Sent: Friday, February 20, 2004 7:43 PM
> To: use-revolution at runrev.com
> Subject: Immediate/Compile Time Execution for "USING" library STACKS
> 
> 
> 
> Okay, this is anoying.   Does any one know of a API or 
> contruct to execute Transcript at "complile time"  (since in 
> a intrepretative lnaguage there is really no such animal).  
> In traditional TILs there a keywords such as IMMEDIATE, .IF 
> .ELSE, .THEN, COMPILE and [COMPILE].  Since I believe 
> Transcript is a TIL these constructs should exist.  I am wold 
> like to use such constructs to create a "include" that would 
> operate using a default LIBRARY PATH or possibly even create 
> a "plugin" that would have a XML based project file.  Any suggestions?
> 
> I have already created a "handler" to force parameters (aka 
> make them manadatory) it is called manatory.  It is raw but 
> functional.  I am also working on a dialog the  generates a 
> error message with the call stack detail should anyone find it useful.
> 
> Kevin
> 
> 
> 
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> 



From pixelbird at interisland.net  Sat Feb 21 02:19:26 2004
From: pixelbird at interisland.net (Ken Norris)
Date: Fri, 20 Feb 2004 23:19:26 -0800
Subject: Scrolling a Card?
In-Reply-To: <20040221002808.16FE99300C6@mail.runrev.com>
Message-ID: <BC5C467E.5190%pixelbird@interisland.net>

Hi Dar,

> Date: Fri, 20 Feb 2004 16:56:32 -0700
> From: Dar Scott <dsc at swcp.com>
> Subject: Re: Scrolling a Card?

> 
> 
> On Friday, February 20, 2004, at 04:39 PM, Ken Norris wrote:
> 
>> put max(gMinHscroll,min(gMaxHscroll,x-gOffsetH)) into gXmove
> 
> I can only guess what you are doing.  My guess:
> 
> put max(gMinHscroll,min(gMaxHscroll, -(x-gOffsetH) )) into gXmove
-----------
Thanks. That's pretty close to the ticket. At least it scrolls the right
direction.

Something is causing it to snap to the topleft of the scroll when I start to
move it, which it wasn't doing when it was going the wrong way. Will take a
little more study to figure out why.

It'd probably be hard for you to tell what might be causing that from the
scripts, though, so thanks again for the tip.

Ken N.


From pixelbird at interisland.net  Sat Feb 21 02:27:25 2004
From: pixelbird at interisland.net (Ken Norris)
Date: Fri, 20 Feb 2004 23:27:25 -0800
Subject: Scrolling a Card?
In-Reply-To: <20040221002808.16FE99300C6@mail.runrev.com>
Message-ID: <BC5C485D.5191%pixelbird@interisland.net>

Hi Klaus,

> Date: Fri, 20 Feb 2004 23:17:45 +0100
> From: Klaus Major <klaus at major-k.de>
> Subject: Re: Scrolling a Card?

> Try this in the group script.
> 
> I might cover item 2, 4 and (with two more lines in "mousedown" ;-) 3
> of your wishlist.
> 
> I am not sure if i understand item 1, but this one will get you
> started...
> 
> 
> local darfziehen, x1, y1
> ## darfziehen = german for maydrag
------------
:-)  I wonder what the root for that is.

Anyway, danke schoen. I'll see if I can plug some of it into the max/min
bounding handler. I have to keep the scroll in bounds of the hScroll/vScroll
limits because of the scrollbars.

Ken N.


From dsc at swcp.com  Sat Feb 21 02:28:38 2004
From: dsc at swcp.com (Dar Scott)
Date: Sat, 21 Feb 2004 00:28:38 -0700
Subject: Scrolling a Card?
In-Reply-To: <BC5C467E.5190%pixelbird@interisland.net>
Message-ID: <911F71B4-643F-11D8-BA9E-000A9567A3E6@swcp.com>


On Saturday, February 21, 2004, at 12:19 AM, Ken Norris wrote:

> Something is causing it to snap to the topleft of the scroll when I 
> start to
> move it, which it wasn't doing when it was going the wrong way. Will 
> take a
> little more study to figure out why.

I'm having trouble guessing what you are doing.  Are you adjusting the 
location of a group with the card group?  Are you setting the scroll on 
the card group?

Dar Scott


From pixelbird at interisland.net  Sat Feb 21 03:19:04 2004
From: pixelbird at interisland.net (Ken Norris)
Date: Sat, 21 Feb 2004 00:19:04 -0800
Subject: MouseRelease (was Scrolling a Card?)
In-Reply-To: <20040221024619.E28C29300B9@mail.runrev.com>
Message-ID: <BC5C5478.519B%pixelbird@interisland.net>

Howdy,

> Date: Fri, 20 Feb 2004 20:09:37 -0600
> From: "J. Landman Gay" <jacque at hyperactivesw.com>
> Subject: Re: Scrolling a Card?
> 
> On 2/20/04 5:53 PM, Christopher Mitchell wrote:
>> Could you please explain under what circumstances this handler would
>> require to be explicitly declared?  This seems like something implicit
>> to the engine, and if not handled reliably then how many other things
>> need to be re-defined?
> 
> That's not exactly how it works; it isn't about defining but rather
> about access. 
-------------
Not sure what you're thinking of here. Christopher's actual post looks like
this:

*****************
> Date: Fri, 20 Feb 2004 17:53:43 -0600
> From: Christopher Mitchell <chrism at lumin.us>
> Subject: Re: Scrolling a Card?
> 
> Klaus,
> 
> Could you please explain under what circumstances this handler would
> require to be explicitly declared?  This seems like something implicit
> to the engine, and if not handled reliably then how many other things
> need to be re-defined?
> 
> Yours,
> Chris
> On Feb 20, 2004, at 4:17 PM, Klaus Major wrote:
>> 
>> on mouserelease
>> mouseup
>> end mouserelease
******************
...So, I think the only thing he was referring to was the doubling up of the
mouse events, IOW, he was questioning why a mouseUp, then a mouserelease
that refers to the mouseUp.

It does look suspiscious if he doesn't know what's actually happening

Here's hoping he reads on to this.

For Christopher:

Here's the deal. In Rev, mouseUp messages only take place within the actual
control object. IOW, if the user drags the mouse ouside the object and
releases, the _object_ not get a mouseUp message. Consequently, if you want
to be sure Rev gets the mouseUp message (or some other message related to
releasing outside the object), you need to handle the mouseRelease message
as well. Take a look at mouseRelease in the dictionary.

All the best,
Ken N.


From pixelbird at interisland.net  Sat Feb 21 03:55:50 2004
From: pixelbird at interisland.net (Ken Norris)
Date: Sat, 21 Feb 2004 00:55:50 -0800
Subject: Scrolling a Card?
In-Reply-To: <20040221081942.C7A0F9300EA@mail.runrev.com>
Message-ID: <BC5C5D16.519D%pixelbird@interisland.net>

> Date: Sat, 21 Feb 2004 00:28:38 -0700
> From: Dar Scott <dsc at swcp.com>
> Subject: Re: Scrolling a Card?

> Are you setting the scroll on
> the card group?
-----------
Yep. A map with both scrollbars and a grab ability is the model I'm looking
for. Gives the user more options, i.e., all-axis fine scrolling control.

Like this:

I want to scroll the card group by faking a grab. Obviously you can't grab
the group, because the scrollbar objects themselves would move with it. No
good.

What needs to happen is to grab the _scroll_ of the group such that the
_content_ sticks to the mouse, and the scrollbars follow it. It gives the
user fine all-axis control, like a grab.

But, in order for it to work within the scroll limits, I figured you have to
bound it by those limits. I want it to stop scrolling safely when you get to
a max or min scroll limit, IOW, grabbing and moving when it gets there won't
make it move any futher.

The problem has been that executing a grab using the mouse offset and a
max/min expression with the scroll (hScroll,vScroll) causes it to move like
the scrollbars work, i.e., opposite the drag direction, rather than sticking
to the mouse, i.e., moving exactly with it. Grab and drag it a ways, release
and move back, grab an drag it some more, etc.

Thus, it needs to operate like a normal grab of an object, _but_ work with
the actual scroll, moving the thumbs with it, and in the proper way.

Not so easy to do. I haven't seen an example.

Thanks again,
Ken N.


From chrism at lumin.us  Sat Feb 21 04:43:28 2004
From: chrism at lumin.us (Christopher Mitchell)
Date: Sat, 21 Feb 2004 03:43:28 -0600
Subject: MouseRelease (was Scrolling a Card?)
In-Reply-To: <BC5C5478.519B%pixelbird@interisland.net>
References: <BC5C5478.519B%pixelbird@interisland.net>
Message-ID: <66E2572C-6452-11D8-95C7-000393B64EDC@lumin.us>

Ah, thanks, Ken... yes this is what I was asking about.  Makes sense 
but is not something I would have thought about, and a few cycles 
beyond me at this point. Something to archive for the future. :)_~

Yours,
Chris
On Feb 21, 2004, at 2:19 AM, Ken Norris wrote:

> Howdy,
>
>> Date: Fri, 20 Feb 2004 20:09:37 -0600
>> From: "J. Landman Gay" <jacque at hyperactivesw.com>
>> Subject: Re: Scrolling a Card?
>>
>> On 2/20/04 5:53 PM, Christopher Mitchell wrote:
>>> Could you please explain under what circumstances this handler would
>>> require to be explicitly declared?  This seems like something 
>>> implicit
>>> to the engine, and if not handled reliably then how many other things
>>> need to be re-defined?
>>
>> That's not exactly how it works; it isn't about defining but rather
>> about access.
> -------------
> Not sure what you're thinking of here. Christopher's actual post looks 
> like
> this:
>
> *****************
>> Date: Fri, 20 Feb 2004 17:53:43 -0600
>> From: Christopher Mitchell <chrism at lumin.us>
>> Subject: Re: Scrolling a Card?
>>
>> Klaus,
>>
>> Could you please explain under what circumstances this handler would
>> require to be explicitly declared?  This seems like something implicit
>> to the engine, and if not handled reliably then how many other things
>> need to be re-defined?
>>
>> Yours,
>> Chris
>> On Feb 20, 2004, at 4:17 PM, Klaus Major wrote:
>>>
>>> on mouserelease
>>> mouseup
>>> end mouserelease
> ******************
> ...So, I think the only thing he was referring to was the doubling up 
> of the
> mouse events, IOW, he was questioning why a mouseUp, then a 
> mouserelease
> that refers to the mouseUp.
>
> It does look suspiscious if he doesn't know what's actually happening
>
> Here's hoping he reads on to this.
>
> For Christopher:
>
> Here's the deal. In Rev, mouseUp messages only take place within the 
> actual
> control object. IOW, if the user drags the mouse ouside the object and
> releases, the _object_ not get a mouseUp message. Consequently, if you 
> want
> to be sure Rev gets the mouseUp message (or some other message related 
> to
> releasing outside the object), you need to handle the mouseRelease 
> message
> as well. Take a look at mouseRelease in the dictionary.
>
> All the best,
> Ken N.
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>


From chrism at lumin.us  Sat Feb 21 04:59:13 2004
From: chrism at lumin.us (Christopher Mitchell)
Date: Sat, 21 Feb 2004 03:59:13 -0600
Subject: Appropriate syntax for referencing objects in a looping structure?
Message-ID: <9A6C6FCC-6454-11D8-95C7-000393B64EDC@lumin.us>

Howdy,

Another likely simple question for which the specific documentation 
does not seem readily available, or at least accessible.  Hopefully 
someday other newbies will benefit from all these syntax questions and 
you all won't tar and feather me just yet.  I feel like I've been 
spamming the list :/
-----

Ok, I've got a card with several graphic objects all named pointer1, 
pointer2, pointer3, etc.  I want a repeat script to change the angle 
property of each one of them.

The usual line that works outside the loop is, of course:

set the angle of graphic "pointer1" to rotAngle

The problem comes in getting the 'set' command to properly parse any of 
the content I'm throwing at it in order to make it work in the same way 
using the counter generated by a 'repeat with' loop, as follows:

repeat with i = 1 to 3
     put quote & "pointer" & i & quote into tName
     answer tName -- this is giving me the right content: "pointer1"
     set the angle of graphic tName to rotAngle  -- this line chokes 
with chunk error, no such object. hint: "pointer1"
   end repeat


As indicated by the comment, I put in the 'answer' just as a sanity 
check and the contents of tName at that point are exactly what I would 
type into the usual line; yet it tells me that there is a chunk 
error:no such object -  with the hint, ironically, as "pointer1"  ...

Is there some way i need to escape this variable tName when I put it in 
the 'set' statement in order to make it use the contents literally, 
exactly as if I had typed them in?  I've tried several combinations of 
using the quote constant and the '&' operator, but the 'set' command 
definitely does not like having those things in its strings anymore 
than moving it out into a variable.

Thanks,
Chris


From klaus at major-k.de  Sat Feb 21 05:50:20 2004
From: klaus at major-k.de (Klaus Major)
Date: Sat, 21 Feb 2004 11:50:20 +0100
Subject: Scrolling a Card?
In-Reply-To: <03C40071-6400-11D8-95C7-000393B64EDC@lumin.us>
References: <BC5BB4A3.517D%pixelbird@interisland.net>
	<9BC4EF66-63F2-11D8-BFCA-000A27B49A96@major-k.de>
	<03C40071-6400-11D8-95C7-000393B64EDC@lumin.us>
Message-ID: <BE4E4371-645B-11D8-967B-000A27B49A96@major-k.de>

Hi Christopher,

> Klaus,
>
> Could you please explain under what circumstances this handler would 
> require
> to be explicitly declared?  This seems like something implicit to the 
> engine, and
> if not handled reliably then how many other things need to be 
> re-defined?

Looks like this has been carefully explained by other listers :-)

Actually i just got used to add this "extra"-handler, although it might 
NOT
be necessary sometimes... ;-)

> Yours,
> Chris
> On Feb 20, 2004, at 4:17 PM, Klaus Major wrote:
>>
>> on mouserelease
>>   mouseup
>> end mouserelease

Have a nice weekend...


Regards

Klaus Major
klaus at major-k.de
www.major-k.de


From klaus at major-k.de  Sat Feb 21 05:57:44 2004
From: klaus at major-k.de (Klaus Major)
Date: Sat, 21 Feb 2004 11:57:44 +0100
Subject: Scrolling a Card?
In-Reply-To: <BC5C5D16.519D%pixelbird@interisland.net>
References: <BC5C5D16.519D%pixelbird@interisland.net>
Message-ID: <C707B558-645C-11D8-967B-000A27B49A96@major-k.de>

Hi Ken,

>> Date: Sat, 21 Feb 2004 00:28:38 -0700
>> From: Dar Scott <dsc at swcp.com>
>> Subject: Re: Scrolling a Card?
>
>> Are you setting the scroll on
>> the card group?
> -----------
> Yep. A map with both scrollbars and a grab ability is the model I'm 
> looking
> for. Gives the user more options, i.e., all-axis fine scrolling 
> control.
>
> Like this:
>
> I want to scroll the card group by faking a grab. Obviously you can't 
> grab
> the group, because the scrollbar objects themselves would move with 
> it. No
> good.
>
> What needs to happen is to grab the _scroll_ of the group such that the
> _content_ sticks to the mouse, and the scrollbars follow it. It gives 
> the
> user fine all-axis control, like a grab.
>
> But, in order for it to work within the scroll limits, I figured you 
> have to
> bound it by those limits. I want it to stop scrolling safely when you 
> get to
> a max or min scroll limit, IOW, grabbing and moving when it gets there 
> won't
> make it move any futher.
>
> The problem has been that executing a grab using the mouse offset and a
> max/min expression with the scroll (hScroll,vScroll) causes it to move 
> like
> the scrollbars work, i.e., opposite the drag direction, rather than 
> sticking
> to the mouse, i.e., moving exactly with it. Grab and drag it a ways, 
> release
> and move back, grab an drag it some more, etc.
>
> Thus, it needs to operate like a normal grab of an object, _but_ work 
> with
> the actual scroll, moving the thumbs with it, and in the proper way.
>
> Not so easy to do. I haven't seen an example.

Let me see if i get you right...

You are faking a group with separate scrollbar-objects?

Why does a goup with its v- and hscrollbar set to true does not work 
for you?
(I am still presuming a group as high/wide as a card...)

> Thanks again,
> Ken N.

Regards

Klaus Major
klaus at major-k.de
www.major-k.de


From ops at myesa.com  Sat Feb 21 07:15:04 2004
From: ops at myesa.com (Ops)
Date: Sat, 21 Feb 2004 06:15:04 -0600
Subject: Appropriate syntax for referencing objects in a looping
	structure?
In-Reply-To: <9A6C6FCC-6454-11D8-95C7-000393B64EDC@lumin.us>
References: <9A6C6FCC-6454-11D8-95C7-000393B64EDC@lumin.us>
Message-ID: <40374BC8.5010306@myesa.com>

Christopher,

The name of your graphic pointer is:   pointer1      It's NOT "pointer1" 
(with the double quotes).  In your lone set statement, the quotes merely 
tell the engine that what's enclosed (withing the quotes) should be 
treated (or looked upon) as a literal string and NOT a 
variable/container...so in effect, your lone set statement actually 
conveys to the engine the literal string:  pointer1

In your repeat loop, you are telling the engine to look for a container 
named "pointer1" instead of pointer1, and it does not find it, and thus 
generates the error.  Change your repeat to:

  repeat with i = 1 to 3
      put "pointer" & i into tName
      answer tName -- should now give you the right content: pointer1
      set the angle of graphic tName to rotAngle
    end repeat

A shorter way to write the above would be:

repeat with i = 1 to 3
	set the angle of graphic "pointer" & i to rotAngle
end repeat

Hope this was clear.

Opie

Christopher Mitchell wrote:

> Howdy,
> 
> Another likely simple question for which the specific documentation does 
> not seem readily available, or at least accessible.  Hopefully someday 
> other newbies will benefit from all these syntax questions and you all 
> won't tar and feather me just yet.  I feel like I've been spamming the 
> list :/
> -----
> 
> Ok, I've got a card with several graphic objects all named pointer1, 
> pointer2, pointer3, etc.  I want a repeat script to change the angle 
> property of each one of them.
> 
> The usual line that works outside the loop is, of course:
> 
> set the angle of graphic "pointer1" to rotAngle
> 
> The problem comes in getting the 'set' command to properly parse any of 
> the content I'm throwing at it in order to make it work in the same way 
> using the counter generated by a 'repeat with' loop, as follows:
> 
> repeat with i = 1 to 3
>     put quote & "pointer" & i & quote into tName
>     answer tName -- this is giving me the right content: "pointer1"
>     set the angle of graphic tName to rotAngle  -- this line chokes with 
> chunk error, no such object. hint: "pointer1"
>   end repeat
> 
> 
> As indicated by the comment, I put in the 'answer' just as a sanity 
> check and the contents of tName at that point are exactly what I would 
> type into the usual line; yet it tells me that there is a chunk error:no 
> such object -  with the hint, ironically, as "pointer1"  ...
> 
> Is there some way i need to escape this variable tName when I put it in 
> the 'set' statement in order to make it use the contents literally, 
> exactly as if I had typed them in?  I've tried several combinations of 
> using the quote constant and the '&' operator, but the 'set' command 
> definitely does not like having those things in its strings anymore than 
> moving it out into a variable.
> 
> Thanks,
> Chris
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
> 
> 

From chrism at lumin.us  Sat Feb 21 08:42:39 2004
From: chrism at lumin.us (Christopher Mitchell)
Date: Sat, 21 Feb 2004 07:42:39 -0600
Subject: Appropriate syntax for referencing objects in a looping
	structure?
In-Reply-To: <40374BC8.5010306@myesa.com>
References: <9A6C6FCC-6454-11D8-95C7-000393B64EDC@lumin.us>
	<40374BC8.5010306@myesa.com>
Message-ID: <D0B983AA-6473-11D8-B30E-000393B64EDC@lumin.us>

Opie,

Thanks for the reply.  well, yes, you're right that this works - and I 
would have sworn I had tried it, but I guess the confusion stems from 
the fact that in my regular format I have to use the quotes.  So I must 
have just been loading the variable wrong earlier when I was doing it 
before I looked up 'quote' ... :/  It seems weird to not put quotes 
when it is in a variable and to put them when it is not.

The shorter way is the first thing I tried!  I promise!  must have been 
4am typos or something.  Thanks again!

Yours,
Chris, the Newbie
On Feb 21, 2004, at 6:15 AM, Ops wrote:

> Christopher,
>
> The name of your graphic pointer is:   pointer1      It's NOT 
> "pointer1" (with the double quotes).  In your lone set statement, the 
> quotes merely tell the engine that what's enclosed (withing the 
> quotes) should be treated (or looked upon) as a literal string and NOT 
> a variable/container...so in effect, your lone set statement actually 
> conveys to the engine the literal string:  pointer1
>
> In your repeat loop, you are telling the engine to look for a 
> container named "pointer1" instead of pointer1, and it does not find 
> it, and thus generates the error.  Change your repeat to:
>
>  repeat with i = 1 to 3
>      put "pointer" & i into tName
>      answer tName -- should now give you the right content: pointer1
>      set the angle of graphic tName to rotAngle
>    end repeat
>
> A shorter way to write the above would be:
>
> repeat with i = 1 to 3
> 	set the angle of graphic "pointer" & i to rotAngle
> end repeat
>
> Hope this was clear.
>
> Opie
>
> Christopher Mitchell wrote:
>
>> Howdy,
>> Another likely simple question for which the specific documentation 
>> does not seem readily available, or at least accessible.  Hopefully 
>> someday other newbies will benefit from all these syntax questions 
>> and you all won't tar and feather me just yet.  I feel like I've been 
>> spamming the list :/
>> -----
>> Ok, I've got a card with several graphic objects all named pointer1, 
>> pointer2, pointer3, etc.  I want a repeat script to change the angle 
>> property of each one of them.
>> The usual line that works outside the loop is, of course:
>> set the angle of graphic "pointer1" to rotAngle
>> The problem comes in getting the 'set' command to properly parse any 
>> of the content I'm throwing at it in order to make it work in the 
>> same way using the counter generated by a 'repeat with' loop, as 
>> follows:
>> repeat with i = 1 to 3
>>     put quote & "pointer" & i & quote into tName
>>     answer tName -- this is giving me the right content: "pointer1"
>>     set the angle of graphic tName to rotAngle  -- this line chokes 
>> with chunk error, no such object. hint: "pointer1"
>>   end repeat
>> As indicated by the comment, I put in the 'answer' just as a sanity 
>> check and the contents of tName at that point are exactly what I 
>> would type into the usual line; yet it tells me that there is a chunk 
>> error:no such object -  with the hint, ironically, as "pointer1"  ...
>> Is there some way i need to escape this variable tName when I put it 
>> in the 'set' statement in order to make it use the contents 
>> literally, exactly as if I had typed them in?  I've tried several 
>> combinations of using the quote constant and the '&' operator, but 
>> the 'set' command definitely does not like having those things in its 
>> strings anymore than moving it out into a variable.
>> Thanks,
>> Chris
>> _______________________________________________
>> use-revolution mailing list
>> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>


From chrism at lumin.us  Sat Feb 21 08:47:15 2004
From: chrism at lumin.us (Christopher Mitchell)
Date: Sat, 21 Feb 2004 07:47:15 -0600
Subject: actually the short way returns an error
In-Reply-To: <40374BC8.5010306@myesa.com>
References: <9A6C6FCC-6454-11D8-95C7-000393B64EDC@lumin.us>
	<40374BC8.5010306@myesa.com>
Message-ID: <75710BDD-6474-11D8-B30E-000393B64EDC@lumin.us>

Opie,

I think the thing that confused me from the beginning and caused me to 
use that variable was that putting in :

repeat with i = 1 to 3
	set the angle of graphic "pointer" & i to rotAngle
end repeat

returns an error in the script debugger of type: set, missing 'to'  
.... so by putting in the concatenation, the set command does not 
follow to the "to" ... and of course, you can't put the i counter in 
quotes, so that's why I started pulling it out of the line.

Is there a good reason why the script shouldn't like the inline 
concatenation though? that seems absurd.

Yours,
Chris
On Feb 21, 2004, at 6:15 AM, Ops wrote:

> set the angle of graphic "pointer" & i to rotAngle


From malte.brill at t-online.de  Sat Feb 21 09:21:11 2004
From: malte.brill at t-online.de (Malte Brill)
Date: Sat, 21 Feb 2004 15:21:11 +0100
Subject: actually the short way returns an error
In-Reply-To: <20031223170006.9B93F930094@mail.runrev.com>
Message-ID: <BC5D27E7.1A25%malte.brill@t-online.de>

Hi Christopher,

have you tried:

repeat with i = 1 to 3
    set the angle of graphic ("pointer"&i) to rotAngle
end repeat

Best,

malte


From capellan2000 at yahoo.com  Sat Feb 21 10:47:52 2004
From: capellan2000 at yahoo.com (Alejandro Tejada)
Date: Sat, 21 Feb 2004 07:47:52 -0800 (PST)
Subject: How could i Post binary data to perl cgi?
In-Reply-To: <20040221142154.910F2930106@mail.runrev.com>
Message-ID: <20040221154752.72679.qmail@web40514.mail.yahoo.com>

Hi Developers,

I have been working hard to employ
the method "post" for uploading
files to a web server.

I have used "HTTP interceptor v1.3"
to check the differences between the
data send by browsers and RR/MC.

These are the results:

Http headers send from Netscape:

POST /cgi-bin/upload.cgi HTTP/1.0
Referer: http://www.mywebsite.com/postfiles.html
Connection: Close
User-Agent: Mozilla/4.8 [en] (Win98; U)
Host: www.mywebsite.com
Accept: image/gif, image/x-xbitmap, image/jpeg,
image/pjpeg, image/png, */*
Accept-Encoding: gzip
Accept-Language: en
Accept-Charset: iso-8859-1,*,utf-8
Content-type: multipart/form-data;
boundary=---------------------------277072699622422
Content-Length: 15909

Data found after header end:

-----------------------------277072699622422
Content-Disposition: form-data; name="FILE1";
filename="C:\Mis documentos\candado.gif"
Content-Type: image/gif

GIF89aJ


Based in these results, i changed the script
to closely match the http produced by Netscape:

This was the headers result:

POST /cgi-bin/upload.cgi HTTP/1.1
Host: www.mywebsite.com
User-Agent: Metacard (Win32)
Content-Length: 15703
Content-type: multipart/form-data

Data found after header end:

Content-Disposition: form-data; name="FILE1";
filename="C:\Mis documentos\candado.gif"
Content-Type: image/gif

GIF89aJ 

But the server returns
Malformed Post request. :-(

This is the script that
produced this malformed post:

on mouseUp
  -- Setting httpheaders as recommended by Dave Cragg
  -- in the message "HTTP headers for posting data"
  put "Content-type: multipart/form-data" into
tHeaders
  set the httpHeaders to tHeaders

put "http://www.mywebsite.com/cgi-bin/upload.cgi" into
tUrl
  put "Content-Disposition: form-data; name=" & quote
& "FILE1" & quote & "; filename=" & quote & "C:\Mis
documentos\candado.gif" & quote into tString
  put crlf after tString
  put "Content-Type: image/gif" after tString
  put crlf & crlf after tString
  
set the customprop1 of the topstack to url
"binfile:C:/Mis documentos/candado.gif"
put the customprop1 of the topstack after tString
  put crlf after tString
  post tString to url tUrl
  -- put tString -- uncomment for debug
  if the result is empty
  then
    put it --
    set the htmltext of fld "result" to it
else
    answer the result
  end if
end mouseUp

If you could see the errors in this script,
post them here or send clues to my mail.

Thanks in advance.

al


=====
Visit my site:
http://www.geocities.com/capellan2000/
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http://mindlube.com/cgi-bin/search-use-rev.cgi

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From shaosean at unitz.ca  Sat Feb 21 11:00:12 2004
From: shaosean at unitz.ca (shaosean at unitz.ca)
Date: Sat, 21 Feb 2004 11:00:12 -0500
Subject: How could i Post binary data to perl cgi?
In-Reply-To: <20040221154752.72679.qmail@web40514.mail.yahoo.com>
References: <20040221142154.910F2930106@mail.runrev.com>
	<20040221154752.72679.qmail@web40514.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <WorldClient-F200402211100.AA00120471@unitz.ca>

> Content-type: multipart/form-data;
> boundary=---------------------------277072699622422

you're forgetting the "boundary" marker.. (note that the above is all 
one line, or two seperate lines with LWS before the word "boundary")


-Sean


From nnoydb at excite.com  Sat Feb 21 11:41:19 2004
From: nnoydb at excite.com (Kevin)
Date: Sat, 21 Feb 2004 11:41:19 -0500 (EST)
Subject: Immediate/Compile Time Execution for 
Message-ID: <20040221164119.9DB723CE2@xprdmailfe4.nwk.excite.com>


Honestly, there is no "compile time" I am refering to as the script is being parsed.  Basically I am looking fo a set of  parse directives.  It seems that there must be a API from inside Revolution to load and parse a module.   I mean it does so already from distrubition builder.  I just want to add "directives" look initially in a specific directory for library code or the path specified.


Kevin



 --- On Sat 02/21, Ken Ray < kray at sonsothunder.com > wrote:
From: Ken Ray [mailto: kray at sonsothunder.com]
To: nnoydb at excite.com, use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
Date: Sat, 21 Feb 2004 01:14:25 -0600
Subject: RE: Immediate/Compile Time Execution for "USING" library STACKS

Kevin,<br><br>When you say &quot;at compile time&quot;, do you mean when the script editor<br>closes (i.e. at the time the script is parsed)? Or some other time?<br><br>What exactly are you trying to do?<br><br>Ken Ray<br>Sons of Thunder Software<br>Email: kray at sonsothunder.com<br>Web Site: http://www.sonsothunder.com/ <br>&gt; -----Original Message-----<br>&gt; From: use-revolution-bounces at lists.runrev.com <br>&gt; [mailto:use-revolution-bounces at lists.runrev.com] On Behalf Of Kevin<br>&gt; Sent: Friday, February 20, 2004 7:43 PM<br>&gt; To: use-revolution at runrev.com<br>&gt; Subject: Immediate/Compile Time Execution for &quot;USING&quot; library STACKS<br>&gt; <br>&gt; <br>&gt; <br>&gt; Okay, this is anoying.   Does any one know of a API or <br>&gt; contruct to execute Transcript at &quot;complile time&quot;  (since in <br>&gt; a intrepretative lnaguage there is really no such animal).  <br>&gt; In traditional TILs there a keywords such as IMMEDIATE, .IF <br>&gt; .ELSE, .THEN, COMPILE and [COMPILE].  Since I believe <br>&gt; Transcript is a TIL these constructs should exist.  I am wold <br>&gt; like to use such constructs to create a &quot;include&quot; that would <br>&gt; operate using a default LIBRARY PATH or possibly even create <br>&gt; a &quot;plugin&quot; that would have a XML based project file.  Any suggestions?<br>&gt; <br>&gt; I have already created a &quot;handler&quot; to force parameters (aka <br>&gt; make them manadatory) it is called manatory.  It is raw but <br>&gt; functional.  I am also working on a dialog the  generates a <br>&gt; error message with the call stack detail should anyone find it useful.<br>&gt; <br>&gt; Kevin<br>&gt; <br>&gt; <br>&gt; <br>&gt; _______________________________________________<br>&gt; Join Excite! - http://www.excite.com<br>&gt; The most personalized portal on the Web! <br>&gt; _______________________________________________<br>&gt; use-revolution mailing list<br>&gt; use-revolution at lists.runrev.com <br>&gt; http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-&gt; revolution<br>&gt; <br><br><br>

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From ops at myesa.com  Sat Feb 21 11:51:47 2004
From: ops at myesa.com (Ops)
Date: Sat, 21 Feb 2004 10:51:47 -0600
Subject: actually the short way returns an error
In-Reply-To: <75710BDD-6474-11D8-B30E-000393B64EDC@lumin.us>
References: <9A6C6FCC-6454-11D8-95C7-000393B64EDC@lumin.us>
	<40374BC8.5010306@myesa.com> <75710BDD-6474-11D8-B30E-000393B64EDC@lumin.us>
Message-ID: <40378CA3.9020707@myesa.com>

Christopher,

Actually, Malte also responded with the corrected "shorter" version and 
he is correct.  My bad, in my zeal to explain the difference between a 
quoted literal string and the actual object name, I overlooked the 
fundamental syntax of what I sent!!  SORRY!!

In the example I sent, there is a precedence problem.  To make the 
evaluation sequence clear for the Rev engine, enclose "pointer" & i in 
double quotes.  This tells the Rev engine to "do this first".  So, (as 
Malte already stated) the corrected version is:

repeat with i = 1 to 3
      set the angle of graphic ("pointer" & i) to rotAngle
end repeat

The precedence is generally pretty intuitive as to how you the human 
(programmer) thinks...but...in some cases one must override the 
precedence rules by surrounding certain constructs inside ()'s in order 
to indicate to the engine that these phrases (the one's in ()'s) should 
be done FIRST.

Again, sorry, and hope this is *all* clear now :)

Opie

P.S. Don't know what kind of graphic that pointer1 is...but...in my 
test, although it compiled correctly with the above...*my* pointer1 
didn't seem to rotate...don't know why, but I also tried it with an 
image and it worked perfectly...I usually manipulate a graphic by 
changing it's points property...

Cheers!!

Christopher Mitchell wrote:

> Opie,
> 
> I think the thing that confused me from the beginning and caused me to 
> use that variable was that putting in :
> 
> repeat with i = 1 to 3
>     set the angle of graphic "pointer" & i to rotAngle
> end repeat
> 
> returns an error in the script debugger of type: set, missing 'to'  .... 
> so by putting in the concatenation, the set command does not follow to 
> the "to" ... and of course, you can't put the i counter in quotes, so 
> that's why I started pulling it out of the line.
> 
> Is there a good reason why the script shouldn't like the inline 
> concatenation though? that seems absurd.
> 
> Yours,
> Chris
> On Feb 21, 2004, at 6:15 AM, Ops wrote:
> 
>> set the angle of graphic "pointer" & i to rotAngle
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
> 
> 

From dsc at swcp.com  Sat Feb 21 12:29:31 2004
From: dsc at swcp.com (Dar Scott)
Date: Sat, 21 Feb 2004 10:29:31 -0700
Subject: Immediate/Compile Time Execution for 
In-Reply-To: <20040221164119.9DB723CE2@xprdmailfe4.nwk.excite.com>
Message-ID: <8249D1ED-6493-11D8-9746-000A9567A3E6@swcp.com>


On Saturday, February 21, 2004, at 09:41 AM, Kevin wrote:

> Honestly, there is no "compile time" I am refering to as the script is 
> being parsed.  Basically I am looking fo a set of  parse directives.  
> It seems that there must be a API from inside Revolution to load and 
> parse a module.   I mean it does so already from distrubition builder. 
>  I just want to add "directives" look initially in a specific 
> directory for library code or the path specified.

The documentation uses the word compile.  This takes place when a 
script is set and between loading of a stack and the use of a script.

Here are a couple of approaches.

The script is a property; you can set it yourself.  There are 
limitations for standalones.  You can make your own editor.  When you 
hit the apply button, the editor can look for includes and expand them. 
  Then it can set the script property.  You would use a custom property 
for your unexpanded source.

Or you can work out a scheme using the more traditional stack library 
or button "library" (front/back script).

Dar Scott


From ops at myesa.com  Sat Feb 21 12:31:42 2004
From: ops at myesa.com (Ops)
Date: Sat, 21 Feb 2004 11:31:42 -0600
Subject: actually the short way returns an error
In-Reply-To: <40378CA3.9020707@myesa.com>
References: <9A6C6FCC-6454-11D8-95C7-000393B64EDC@lumin.us>
	<40374BC8.5010306@myesa.com> <75710BDD-6474-11D8-B30E-000393B64EDC@lumin.us>
	<40378CA3.9020707@myesa.com>
Message-ID: <403795FE.3040105@myesa.com>

GEEZ!!  I did it again!!!  I said "enclose "pointer" & i in double 
quotes"....that's INCORRECT...I meant to say "enclose "pointer" & i in 
PARENTHESES"!!!!  SORRY AGAIN FOR THE CONFUSION!!!!

Ops wrote:

> Christopher,
> 
> Actually, Malte also responded with the corrected "shorter" version and 
> he is correct.  My bad, in my zeal to explain the difference between a 
> quoted literal string and the actual object name, I overlooked the 
> fundamental syntax of what I sent!!  SORRY!!
> 
> In the example I sent, there is a precedence problem.  To make the 
> evaluation sequence clear for the Rev engine, enclose "pointer" & i in 
> double quotes.  This tells the Rev engine to "do this first".  So, (as 
> Malte already stated) the corrected version is:
> 
> repeat with i = 1 to 3
>      set the angle of graphic ("pointer" & i) to rotAngle
> end repeat
> 
> The precedence is generally pretty intuitive as to how you the human 
> (programmer) thinks...but...in some cases one must override the 
> precedence rules by surrounding certain constructs inside ()'s in order 
> to indicate to the engine that these phrases (the one's in ()'s) should 
> be done FIRST.
> 
> Again, sorry, and hope this is *all* clear now :)
> 
> Opie
> 
> P.S. Don't know what kind of graphic that pointer1 is...but...in my 
> test, although it compiled correctly with the above...*my* pointer1 
> didn't seem to rotate...don't know why, but I also tried it with an 
> image and it worked perfectly...I usually manipulate a graphic by 
> changing it's points property...
> 
> Cheers!!
> 
> Christopher Mitchell wrote:
> 
>> Opie,
>>
>> I think the thing that confused me from the beginning and caused me to 
>> use that variable was that putting in :
>>
>> repeat with i = 1 to 3
>>     set the angle of graphic "pointer" & i to rotAngle
>> end repeat
>>
>> returns an error in the script debugger of type: set, missing 'to'  
>> .... so by putting in the concatenation, the set command does not 
>> follow to the "to" ... and of course, you can't put the i counter in 
>> quotes, so that's why I started pulling it out of the line.
>>
>> Is there a good reason why the script shouldn't like the inline 
>> concatenation though? that seems absurd.
>>
>> Yours,
>> Chris
>> On Feb 21, 2004, at 6:15 AM, Ops wrote:
>>
>>> set the angle of graphic "pointer" & i to rotAngle
>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> use-revolution mailing list
>> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>>
>>
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
> 
> 

From graham.samuel at wanadoo.fr  Sat Feb 21 09:44:06 2004
From: graham.samuel at wanadoo.fr (Graham Samuel)
Date: Sat, 21 Feb 2004 15:44:06 +0100
Subject: Multilingual apps (was: Re: Beginners global variable pb)
Message-ID: <6.0.1.1.2.20040221153311.01cfeac0@pop3.blueyonder.co.uk>

On Fri, 20 Feb 2004 15:45:14 -0700, Rob Cozens <rcozens at pon.net> wrote:


>My approach is to load the entire text file into a library field when
>changing languages, and to load that text field into a library local
>variable when the library is put in use.
>
>Each one-line message in the file is referenced as a constant, eg:

[detailed explanation]

Excellent! This is a more systematic runtime method than I was using, and I 
shall adopt it from now on.

Thanks Rob.

Graham


---------------------------------------------------
Graham Samuel / The Living Fossil Co. / UK & France  



From nnoydb at excite.com  Sat Feb 21 13:15:52 2004
From: nnoydb at excite.com (Kevin)
Date: Sat, 21 Feb 2004 13:15:52 -0500 (EST)
Subject: Immediate/Compile Time Execution for 
Message-ID: <20040221181552.C9ED53D1F@xprdmailfe4.nwk.excite.com>



So, when tha apply button is invoked the routines/interpreter that builds the "tokens" has no parse directives?  Are there no #if style constructs?  I guess some documentation on specifically how the compile/tokenization process occurs would be helpful.   Is the metacard/transcript compiler using the TIL concept of words?  Doese metacard/transcript  have a header segment or dicrionary that is accessible?  So each of the words/handlers have a IMMEDIATE bit or identifier?  I understand these are rather "under the hood" questions I just fiqure that they would be in the documentation.

Kevin





 --- On Sat 02/21, Dar Scott < dsc at swcp.com > wrote:
From: Dar Scott [mailto: dsc at swcp.com]
To: nnoydb at excite.com, use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
Date: Sat, 21 Feb 2004 10:29:31 -0700
Subject: Re: Immediate/Compile Time Execution for 

<br>On Saturday, February 21, 2004, at 09:41 AM, Kevin wrote:<br><br>&gt; Honestly, there is no &quot;compile time&quot; I am refering to as the script is <br>&gt; being parsed.  Basically I am looking fo a set of  parse directives.  <br>&gt; It seems that there must be a API from inside Revolution to load and <br>&gt; parse a module.   I mean it does so already from distrubition builder. <br>&gt;  I just want to add &quot;directives&quot; look initially in a specific <br>&gt; directory for library code or the path specified.<br><br>The documentation uses the word compile.  This takes place when a <br>script is set and between loading of a stack and the use of a script.<br><br>Here are a couple of approaches.<br><br>The script is a property; you can set it yourself.  There are <br>limitations for standalones.  You can make your own editor.  When you <br>hit the apply button, the editor can look for includes and expand them. <br>  Then it can set the script property.  You would use a custom property <br>for your unexpanded source.<br><br>Or you can work out a scheme using the more traditional stack library <br>or button &quot;library&quot; (front/back script).<br><br>Dar Scott<br><br>

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From rcozens at pon.net  Sat Feb 21 12:25:23 2004
From: rcozens at pon.net (Rob Cozens)
Date: Sat, 21 Feb 2004 10:25:23 -0700
Subject: Multilingual apps (was: Re: Beginners global variable pb)
In-Reply-To: <6.0.1.1.2.20040221153311.01cfeac0@pop3.blueyonder.co.uk>
References: <6.0.1.1.2.20040221153311.01cfeac0@pop3.blueyonder.co.uk>
Message-ID: <a05100300bc5d414e21ec@[66.52.165.171]>

>Excellent! This is a more systematic runtime method than I was 
>using, and I shall adopt it from now on.
>
>Thanks Rob.

You are most welcome, Graham.

As an ignorant Yank who can only communicate in English--and a wee 
bit of Svenska--my efforts to promote multi-lingual, user 
translatable applications in Revolution is a small "Thank you" to 
everyone who is forced to use my native language to communicate with 
me.  I am ALWAYS available to offer whatever help I can, here or 
privately, to anyone developing multi-lingual Rev applications.

Of course, you still have to put your questions to me in English.    :{`)

And let me take this opportunity to note that without the efforts of 
my volunteer translators, Jose L. Rodriguez Illera, Terry Vogelaar, 
Yves Coppe, and Klaus Major, Serendipity Library's multi-lingual 
support would be just a theoretical concept instead of a demonstrable 
reality.
-- 

Rob Cozens
CCW, Serendipity Software Company
http://www.oenolog.net/who.htm

"And I, which was two fooles, do so grow three;
Who are a little wise, the best fooles bee."

from "The Triple Foole" by John Donne (1572-1631)

From Roger.E.Eller at sealedair.com  Sat Feb 21 13:54:11 2004
From: Roger.E.Eller at sealedair.com (Roger.E.Eller at sealedair.com)
Date: Sat, 21 Feb 2004 13:54:11 -0500
Subject: Scanning ON SCREEN barcodes
Message-ID: <OFAA5B76A1.0508B4C7-ON85256E41.0066A468@sealedair.com>

For obvious reasons, the laser beam of a barcode scanner cannot read a 
barcode that is displayed on your monitor. However, if the resolution of 
the display is high enough to detect the differences in line-thickness of 
each bar... Is it possible for Revolution to take a snapshot of a 1 pixel 
height strip across the displayed barcode and show in a field what the 
alpha-numeric values are? What I want to build is a "digital" barcode 
verifier to simply confirm that the content of the code is correct BEFORE 
printing it.

I think I can handle the snapshot of the strip of pixels, but I have no 
idea how to begin analyzing the on/off pixels to determine their value. 
Can anyone offer suggestions? Have you attempted anything similar and have 
code snippets that you would share?

Thanks.
Roger Eller <roger.e.eller at sealedair.com>


From nnoydb at excite.com  Sat Feb 21 14:52:23 2004
From: nnoydb at excite.com (Kevin)
Date: Sat, 21 Feb 2004 14:52:23 -0500 (EST)
Subject: Immediate/Compile Time Execution for 
Message-ID: <20040221195223.488EB3CFA@xprdmailfe4.nwk.excite.com>



TIL (Threaded Interpretive Languages) is a acronym that refers the languages like Forth, Visual Basic and even SmalTalk/Java variations.   Maybe this is a question I should post to the Runtime Revolution support staff.  I was under the impression from the postings I have read that many of the MetaCard gurus frequent this mailing list and could point me to some documents about the general design of the engine.   I seems odd to me that the engine could be built and extended without these constructs for example a "if" construct.  In Forth and SmallTalk a "if" statement is "immediate" it encodes a comparison and a 2 wsize (aka word size)  cells for the true jump branch and one for the false branch.  Since it is not viable at runtime there must be a "compile time" subsystem.  Thanks for the suggestions though I think I will be asking the support at RunRev.


Kevin


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From pixelbird at interisland.net  Sat Feb 21 15:22:23 2004
From: pixelbird at interisland.net (Ken Norris)
Date: Sat, 21 Feb 2004 12:22:23 -0800
Subject: Subject: Re: Scrolling a Card?
In-Reply-To: <20040221142154.5D7EE930103@mail.runrev.com>
Message-ID: <BC5CFDFF.51AF%pixelbird@interisland.net>

Hi Klaus,

> Date: Sat, 21 Feb 2004 11:57:44 +0100
> From: Klaus Major <klaus at major-k.de>
> Subject: Re: Scrolling a Card?

> Let me see if i get you right...
> 
> You are faking a group with separate scrollbar-objects?
-----------
Nope. The group has normal scrollbars (checked in Inspector for the group).
I'm faking a 'grab' of the content of the group by setting hScroll/vScroll
relative to mouseMove coordinates in a max/min bounding expression. You hold
down the mouse inside the card and 'grab' it (the fake, because a real grab
in Rev can't pass messages nor bound itself, and would end  up moving the
entire group, scrollbars and all, which is no good), move it in any
direction you want, but when it reaches the scroll limits, it wont go any
further in that direction. Since I'm setting hScroll/vScroll via mouseMove,
the scrollbars react like their supposed to, but that's not the
problem...read on.
---------
> Why does a goup with its v- and hscrollbar set to true does not work
> for you?
----------
It does...see above.
----------
> (I am still presuming a group as high/wide as a card...)
----------
The stack window, yes.

My expression moves the group and the scrollbars react OK, but it's causing
the contents to "scroll" like the scrollbars do, i.e., opposite the
direction you move the mouse instead of "grabbing" it and moving with the
mouse.

Does that help you to understand?

I can send you a SC project offlist that shows exactly what I want to do. SC
'grab' command allows message passing and rect bounds, very simple scripts
(I wish Rev had this feature).

I want to fine scroll an aerial photograph enlargement by grabbing it, but I
also want it to have scrollbars that react properly with the grab, which I
can do very easily in SC. I want a Windows method to do the same thing.

It's a normal thing with large maps. These aerials will have accompanying
object and property-line graphics which can be examined with the aerial in
multiple ways, i.e. measure distances from ground-truth controls, locate
underground utilities, scale grids, variable tints between certain objects
(making them stand out on the aerial), clickable objects which display
relevent ground photos (closeups) and accompanying data.

The state has closed a couple of their aerial photo departments due to
budget cuts. I figure I might be able to inch my way into a niche of that
market if I hurry. If I can come up with a couple demos county users and
private parties can run on their machines, maybe I can put together a
proposal to get $$ for modern data acquisition equipment and an appropriate
bird for the aerial platform.

Like this Leica system you might have heard of:
<http://www.lh-systems.com/products/aerial_cameras.html>

Ken N.




From nnoydb at excite.com  Sat Feb 21 17:56:04 2004
From: nnoydb at excite.com (Kevin)
Date: Sat, 21 Feb 2004 17:56:04 -0500 (EST)
Subject: Immediate/Compile Time Execution for 
Message-ID: <20040221225604.596D43CFA@xprdmailfe4.nwk.excite.com>


I am currently using "start using" and "insert the script of" syntax and evaluating the pros and cons of each.  However, my question is one of larger scope I would like to be able to extend the language/standard library itself.  With many other languages there exists a facilities to extend the language.  Via classes in the case of C++, objects in the case of Java and Small-talk, and WORDS in the case of FORTH.  I have even built objects  in FORTH (similar to MOPS).  It is my hope that we as developers can further the language and it's success.  With such constructs this would be simple and allow a amazing flexibility.


Kevin


 --- On Sat 02/21, Ken Ray < kray at sonsothunder.com > wrote:
From: Ken Ray [mailto: kray at sonsothunder.com]
To: nnoydb at excite.com
Date: Sat, 21 Feb 2004 14:43:01 -0600
Subject: RE: Immediate/Compile Time Execution for 

> Honestly, there is no "compile time" I am refering to as the <br>&gt; script is being parsed.  Basically I am looking fo a set of  <br>&gt; parse directives.  It seems that there must be a API from <br>&gt; inside Revolution to load and parse a module.   I mean it <br>&gt; does so already from distrubition builder.  I just want to <br>&gt; add &quot;directives&quot; look initially in a specific directory for <br>&gt; library code or the path specified.<br><br>If you're talking about #parse or #include directives, with the<br>intention of creating an include file that contains a chunk of code that<br>is #included in a number of different scripts, Rev does things a little<br>differently.<br><br>Let's say you had a set of transcript routines called myFunc1() and<br>myFunc2() that you want to be able to call from anywhere. If I'm reading<br>you correctly, it sounds like you'd want to put myFunc(1) and myFunc2()<br>into a exparate source file and #include them when you needed to get<br>access to them. If I'm right, this is done differently in Transcript.<br>You put those functions into the stack script of a stack and you<br>&quot;include&quot; that code by using the &quot;library&quot; (or &quot;start using&quot;) command.<br>This inserts the code into the message passing hierarchy so that these<br>functions can be called from anywhere.<br><br>If I'm on the right track and you need more assistance in getting this<br>done, let me know. If I'm not on the right track, please try to explain<br>in detail what it is you're trying to do - I apologize for not &quot;getting<br>it&quot;.<br><br>Ken Ray<br>Sons of Thunder Software<br>Email: kray at sonsothunder.com<br>Web Site: http://www.sonsothunder.com/ <br><br><br>

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From nnoydb at excite.com  Sat Feb 21 18:00:48 2004
From: nnoydb at excite.com (Kevin)
Date: Sat, 21 Feb 2004 18:00:48 -0500 (EST)
Subject: Immediate/Compile Time Execution for 
Message-ID: <20040221230048.3CA1F3CFA@xprdmailfe4.nwk.excite.com>


 Just another small note.  The "start using" syntax refers to a "stack" not a "file" the stack must be "in memory" in my understanding.  I would like to create a "#include" that would solve these dependicies without developer/inteligent intervention. Thus removing the most problematic variable from the equation (human error).

Kevin


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From nnoydb at excite.com  Sat Feb 21 18:05:43 2004
From: nnoydb at excite.com (Kevin)
Date: Sat, 21 Feb 2004 18:05:43 -0500 (EST)
Subject: Immediate/Compile Time Execution for 
Message-ID: <20040221230543.1B5F23CFA@xprdmailfe4.nwk.excite.com>


I have also looked into using several stacks written by Sweat Technologies AKS Charlie Finley Script Browser and Script Library in hope if simplifying the inclusion madness.

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From frank at backtalk.com  Sat Feb 21 19:02:42 2004
From: frank at backtalk.com (Frank Leahy)
Date: Sun, 22 Feb 2004 00:02:42 +0000
Subject: Scrolling a Card?
In-Reply-To: <20040221225655.5B0A49300FC@mail.runrev.com>
Message-ID: <6F8F273E-64CA-11D8-A349-000A9580FCCE@backtalk.com>


On Saturday, February 21, 2004, at 10:56  PM, 
use-revolution-request at lists.runrev.com wrote:

> -----------
> Nope. The group has normal scrollbars (checked in Inspector for the 
> group).
> I'm faking a 'grab' of the content of the group by setting 
> hScroll/vScroll
> relative to mouseMove coordinates in a max/min bounding expression. 
> You hold
> down the mouse inside the card and 'grab' it (the fake, because a real 
> grab
> in Rev can't pass messages nor bound itself, and would end  up moving 
> the
> entire group, scrollbars and all, which is no good), move it in any
> direction you want, but when it reaches the scroll limits, it wont go 
> any
> further in that direction. Since I'm setting hScroll/vScroll via 
> mouseMove,
> the scrollbars react like their supposed to, but that's not the
> problem...read on.
>

Ken,

Here's code I use to scroll an image in the direction that the mouse is 
moving.

I have a group named "Image Group" with scrollbars.  Inside of that 
group is a single image.  I first display the photo by setting the 
fileName property of the image.  Then when I get a mouseDown in the 
image I call this routine:

on ScrollImage
     if the vScrollbar of group "Image Group" is true or \
         the hScrollbar of group "Image Group" is true then
       put the mouseLoc into lastLoc
       set the itemDelimiter to ","
       repeat while the mouse is down
         put the mouseLoc into curLoc
         put item 1 of lastLoc - item 1 of curLoc into deltaX
         put item 2 of lastLoc - item 2 of curLoc into deltaY
         if the vScrollbar of group "Image Group" is true then
           put the vScroll of group "Image Group" into curVScroll
           add deltaY to curVScroll
           set the vScroll of group "Image Group" to curVScroll
         end if
         if the hScrollbar of group "Image Group" is true then
           put the hScroll of group "Image Group" into curHScroll
           add deltaX to curHScroll
           set the hScroll of group "Image Group" to curHScroll
         end if
         put curLoc into lastLoc
       end repeat
     end if
end ScrollImage

It would be easy to add acceleration (by using a geometric multiplier 
factor on deltaX and deltaY) so that if you have a very large image the 
user doesn't have to keep mousing up and down in order to see the whole 
image.

Hope this helps.

-- Frank 


From capellan2000 at yahoo.com  Sat Feb 21 19:19:54 2004
From: capellan2000 at yahoo.com (Alejandro Tejada)
Date: Sat, 21 Feb 2004 16:19:54 -0800 (PST)
Subject: How could i Post binary data to perl cgi?
In-Reply-To: <20040221170021.911F293012B@mail.runrev.com>
Message-ID: <20040222001954.62837.qmail@web40514.mail.yahoo.com>

on Sat, 21 Feb 2004 11:00:12 -0500
"shaosean at unitz.ca" wrote:
 
Content-type: multipart/form-data;
boundary=---------------------------277072699622422
 
> you're forgetting the "boundary" marker.. (note that
> the above is all 
> one line, or two seperate lines with LWS before the
> word "boundary")

Thanks a lot Sean for step-in on this question.

I've add the boundary marker, but this only
produces the same error.

I'm using the perl cgi script: "Upload Lite"
from the site:

<http://www.perlscriptsjavascripts.com/perl/upload_lite/>

Do you have success uploading files to a cgi or
php script in a server from RR/MC?

I noticed that you use base64encode to attach
files to email messages.

Does libUrl supports uploading binary files 
in this way?

Dave Cragg does not says that uploading binary
files using post will not works, so i'll keep 
posting my errors, so interested developers
will help or at least not repeat them.
 
Thanks again Sean! :-)

al

on Sat, 21 Feb 2004 07:47:52 -0800 (PST)
Alejandro Tejada wrote:

> Hi Developers,
> 
> I have been working hard to employ
> the method "post" for uploading
> files to a web server.
> 
> I have used "HTTP interceptor v1.3"
> to check the differences between the
> data send by browsers and RR/MC.
> 
> These are the results:
> 
> Http headers send from Netscape:
> 
> POST /cgi-bin/upload.cgi HTTP/1.0
> Referer: http://www.mywebsite.com/postfiles.html
> Connection: Close
> User-Agent: Mozilla/4.8 [en] (Win98; U)
> Host: www.mywebsite.com
> Accept: image/gif, image/x-xbitmap, image/jpeg,
> image/pjpeg, image/png, */*
> Accept-Encoding: gzip
> Accept-Language: en
> Accept-Charset: iso-8859-1,*,utf-8
> Content-type: multipart/form-data;
> boundary=---------------------------277072699622422
> Content-Length: 15909
> 
> Data found after header end:
> 
> -----------------------------277072699622422
> Content-Disposition: form-data; name="FILE1";
> filename="C:\Mis documentos\candado.gif"
> Content-Type: image/gif
> 
> GIF89aJ
> 
> 
> Based in these results, i changed the script
> to closely match the http produced by Netscape:
> 
> This was the headers result:
> 
> POST /cgi-bin/upload.cgi HTTP/1.1
> Host: www.mywebsite.com
> User-Agent: Metacard (Win32)
> Content-Length: 15703
> Content-type: multipart/form-data
> 
> Data found after header end:
> 
> Content-Disposition: form-data; name="FILE1";
> filename="C:\Mis documentos\candado.gif"
> Content-Type: image/gif
> 
> GIF89aJ 
> 
> But the server returns
> Malformed Post request. :-(
> 
> This is the script that
> produced this malformed post:
> 
> on mouseUp
>   -- Setting httpheaders as recommended by Dave
> Cragg
>   -- in the message "HTTP headers for posting data"
>   put "Content-type: multipart/form-data" into
> tHeaders
>   set the httpHeaders to tHeaders
> 
> put "http://www.mywebsite.com/cgi-bin/upload.cgi"
> into
> tUrl
>   put "Content-Disposition: form-data; name=" &
> quote
> & "FILE1" & quote & "; filename=" & quote & "C:\Mis
> documentos\candado.gif" & quote into tString
>   put crlf after tString
>   put "Content-Type: image/gif" after tString
>   put crlf & crlf after tString
>   
> set the customprop1 of the topstack to url
> "binfile:C:/Mis documentos/candado.gif"
> put the customprop1 of the topstack after tString
>   put crlf after tString
>   post tString to url tUrl
>   -- put tString -- uncomment for debug
>   if the result is empty
>   then
>     put it --
>     set the htmltext of fld "result" to it
> else
>     answer the result
>   end if
> end mouseUp
> 
> If you could see the errors in this script,
> post them here or send clues to my mail.
> 
> Thanks in advance.
> 
> al


=====
Visit my site:
http://www.geocities.com/capellan2000/
Search the mail list:
http://mindlube.com/cgi-bin/search-use-rev.cgi

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From mwieder at ahsoftware.net  Sat Feb 21 20:59:54 2004
From: mwieder at ahsoftware.net (Mark Wieder)
Date: Sat, 21 Feb 2004 17:59:54 -0800
Subject: Immediate/Compile Time Execution for
In-Reply-To: <20040221225604.596D43CFA@xprdmailfe4.nwk.excite.com>
References: <20040221225604.596D43CFA@xprdmailfe4.nwk.excite.com>
Message-ID: <5531236906.20040221175954@ahsoftware.net>

Kevin-

I'm not sure where you're trying to go with this thread, but
Transcript by its nature extends the language as you go along. For
example, the Forth statement

: beeps 0 do beep loop ;

would be coded in Transcript as

on dots howMany
  repeat with howMany
    beep
  end repeat
end dots

and then you would use it the same way:
4 beeps

so you're actually building extensions to the language as you go
along, much the same way that you extend the Forth dictionary. Not
much support for vocabulary switching, though, if you're used to that.

There's no explicit support for objects, although there's been a lot
of discussion about it. You can always do aggregate objects, of
course, but there's no subclassing.

I think my development time in Transcript is about equal to that in
Forth and there's a much richer set of existing functions and
operators to draw from. If you're looking for support for runtime
[compile] statements, though, you're probably better off looking
through the Transcript dictionary and finding a different way of doing
things instead of thinking in Forth.

-- 
-Mark Wieder
 mwieder at ahsoftware.net


From kray at sonsothunder.com  Sat Feb 21 21:22:39 2004
From: kray at sonsothunder.com (Ken Ray)
Date: Sat, 21 Feb 2004 20:22:39 -0600
Subject: Immediate/Compile Time Execution for 
In-Reply-To: <20040221225604.596D43CFA@xprdmailfe4.nwk.excite.com>
Message-ID: <051b01c3f8ea$c1ec7240$6601a8c0@LightningFlash>

> I am currently using "start using" and "insert the script of" 
> syntax and evaluating the pros and cons of each.  However, my 
> question is one of larger scope I would like to be able to 
> extend the language/standard library itself.  With many other 
> languages there exists a facilities to extend the language.  
> Via classes in the case of C++, objects in the case of Java 
> and Small-talk, and WORDS in the case of FORTH.  I have even 
> built objects  in FORTH (similar to MOPS).  It is my hope 
> that we as developers can further the language and it's 
> success.  With such constructs this would be simple and allow 
> a amazing flexibility.

Kevin, what your asking for is not currently available to developers
(AFAIK). This would need to be built in by the RunRev engineers to
enable this kind of language extension. There has been a lot of talk
about extending the capabilities of the product, so you're certainly
welcome to ask for this enhancement (there's a place on Bugzilla for
that if you didn't already know), but people are using libraries to add
centralized handlers and functions to either the IDE or to their
deployed applications.

>  Just another small note.  The "start using" syntax refers to 
> a "stack" not a "file" the stack must be "in memory" in my 
> understanding.  I would like to create a "#include" that 
> would solve these dependicies without developer/inteligent 
> intervention. Thus removing the most problematic variable 
> from the equation (human error).

Actually, this is not true. If you do:

on preOpenStack
  start using "libMyStuff.mc"
end preOpenStack

It simply looks for a stack with that name in the current directory and
then loads it as a library. The stack doesn't have to be already open
and in memory to be able to "library" it.

HTH,

Ken Ray
Sons of Thunder Software
Email: kray at sonsothunder.com
Web Site: http://www.sonsothunder.com/ 



From kray at sonsothunder.com  Sat Feb 21 21:25:19 2004
From: kray at sonsothunder.com (Ken Ray)
Date: Sat, 21 Feb 2004 20:25:19 -0600
Subject: Appropriate syntax for referencing objects in a
	loopingstructure?
In-Reply-To: <D0B983AA-6473-11D8-B30E-000393B64EDC@lumin.us>
Message-ID: <051c01c3f8eb$21566920$6601a8c0@LightningFlash>

> > repeat with i = 1 to 3
> > 	set the angle of graphic "pointer" & i to rotAngle
> > end repeat

Personally, I like to wrap parentheses around this kind of construct to
make it easier to read:

  repeat with i = 1 to 3
    set the angle of graphic ("pointer" & i) to rotAngle
  end repeat

But whatever floats your boat... :-)

Ken Ray
Sons of Thunder Software
Email: kray at sonsothunder.com
Web Site: http://www.sonsothunder.com/ 



From gcanyon at inspiredlogic.com  Sat Feb 21 22:17:55 2004
From: gcanyon at inspiredlogic.com (Geoff Canyon)
Date: Sat, 21 Feb 2004 19:17:55 -0800
Subject: Qt vs Revolution (NOT Apple Quicktime)
In-Reply-To: <F40EFB43-5F74-11D8-90F0-000393C4760A@mindlube.com>
References: <85C5AFDD-5F17-11D8-84BF-000A9567A3E6@swcp.com>
	<924EF42B-5F2B-11D8-90F0-000393C4760A@mindlube.com>
	<9CF32AFC-5F2D-11D8-A777-000393B64EDC@lumin.us>
	<F40EFB43-5F74-11D8-90F0-000393C4760A@mindlube.com>
Message-ID: <B4C071D8-64E5-11D8-8291-003065683ECC@inspiredlogic.com>

Not wx? http://wxwindows.org/

regards,

Geoff Canyon
gcanyon at inspiredlogic.com

On Feb 14, 2004, at 9:08 PM, Alex Rice wrote:

> If I were a C++ programmer, then Qt would be what I'd be using for a 
> GUI toolkit (if I could afford it).


From rcozens at pon.net  Sat Feb 21 22:09:21 2004
From: rcozens at pon.net (Rob Cozens)
Date: Sat, 21 Feb 2004 20:09:21 -0700
Subject: Immediate/Compile Time Execution for
In-Reply-To: <20040221225604.596D43CFA@xprdmailfe4.nwk.excite.com>
References: <20040221225604.596D43CFA@xprdmailfe4.nwk.excite.com>
Message-ID: <a05100301bc5dc9340fb7@[66.52.165.216]>

>I would like to be able to extend the language/standard library itself.

Kevin,

As others have noted, there is considerable discussion of this 
subject in the List archives.

The solution I have proposed, and would be interested in hearing your 
reaction to, is support for an external symbol table stack that would 
be referenced by the Script Editor when compiling.

Using the symbol table, a developer could:

1. Declare constants globally instead of inside every script that 
references them

2. Explicitly type variables, including pointers & handles

3. Define record structure field names, assigning variable type & offset

4. Define system call names, including # of arguments & "system glue" 
(eg: register assignment) info

The compiler would check the symbol table stack(s) [if present] when 
resolving symbols.
-- 

Rob Cozens
CCW, Serendipity Software Company
http://www.oenolog.net/who.htm

"And I, which was two fooles, do so grow three;
Who are a little wise, the best fooles bee."

from "The Triple Foole" by John Donne (1572-1631)

From dsc at swcp.com  Sat Feb 21 23:24:12 2004
From: dsc at swcp.com (Dar Scott)
Date: Sat, 21 Feb 2004 21:24:12 -0700
Subject: Qt vs Revolution (NOT Apple Quicktime)
In-Reply-To: <B4C071D8-64E5-11D8-8291-003065683ECC@inspiredlogic.com>
Message-ID: <F7986B7C-64EE-11D8-9746-000A9567A3E6@swcp.com>


On Saturday, February 21, 2004, at 08:17 PM, Geoff Canyon wrote:

> Not wx? http://wxwindows.org/

I'll mention it to my customer.

I tried to sell Revolution, but I kept getting responses like "But Qt 
has an openGL canvas!"

Dar Scott


From themacguy at macosx.com  Sun Feb 22 00:05:20 2004
From: themacguy at macosx.com (Barry Levine)
Date: Sat, 21 Feb 2004 22:05:20 -0700
Subject: Applications menu substitute
In-Reply-To: <20040214082817.29C52930181@mail.runrev.com>
References: <20040214082817.29C52930181@mail.runrev.com>
Message-ID: <B693E625-64F4-11D8-8107-000A95763ABC@macosx.com>

Someone may have addressed this already but I use X-assist to provide 
the Applications menu and the OS9-type "bring all that app's windows to 
the front" behavior. There is also a System Pref called "ASM" that does 
this.

Regards,
Barry

On Feb 14, 2004, at 1:28 AM, Stephen Quinn Barncard 
<stephenREVOLUTION at barncard.com> wrote:

> and the loss of the
> Applications menu...
--------------------------------------------------------


From briany at qldlearning.com  Sun Feb 22 00:40:12 2004
From: briany at qldlearning.com (Brian Yennie)
Date: Sun, 22 Feb 2004 00:40:12 -0500
Subject: Immediate/Compile Time Execution for 
In-Reply-To: <20040221181552.C9ED53D1F@xprdmailfe4.nwk.excite.com>
Message-ID: <9569D196-64F9-11D8-83CC-000393AA08D2@qldlearning.com>

I'm a bit lost as to where you're headed with this, but hopefully some 
of this background helps:

* Transcript is compiled into bytecode when you save a script. It is 
not purely interpreted- think Java (conceptually at least).
* The "do" command allows you to execute arbitrary scripts at runtime, 
but is subject to the scriptLimits property.
* You can write your own "handlers" to add commands and functions to 
the language
* You can write externals in C or C++ to add commands and functions to 
the language
* There are no #if, #include, #define, etc directives, but there is 
"start using" , "insert script" and constant declarations.
* commandNames(), functionNames(), externalCommands() and 
externalFunctions() can give you a list of all built-in commands and 
functions, along with external commands and functions.

HTH

> So, when tha apply button is invoked the routines/interpreter that 
> builds the "tokens" has no parse directives?  Are there no #if style 
> constructs?  I guess some documentation on specifically how the 
> compile/tokenization process occurs would be helpful.   Is the 
> metacard/transcript compiler using the TIL concept of words?  Doese 
> metacard/transcript  have a header segment or dicrionary that is 
> accessible?  So each of the words/handlers have a IMMEDIATE bit or 
> identifier?  I understand these are rather "under the hood" questions 
> I just fiqure that they would be in the documentation.
>
> Kevin


From chipp at chipp.com  Sun Feb 22 02:29:13 2004
From: chipp at chipp.com (Chipp Walters)
Date: Sun, 22 Feb 2004 01:29:13 -0600
Subject: How could i Post binary data to perl cgi?
In-Reply-To: <20040222001954.62837.qmail@web40514.mail.yahoo.com>
References: <20040222001954.62837.qmail@web40514.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <D022DCEC-6508-11D8-B73B-000A95F078B6@chipp.com>

Alejandro,

Contact Dave Cragg about this. We've been working with him to do just 
what you want in the last couple months.

-Chipp


From malte.brill at t-online.de  Sun Feb 22 03:36:36 2004
From: malte.brill at t-online.de (Malte Brill)
Date: Sun, 22 Feb 2004 09:36:36 +0100
Subject: # actually the short way returns an error /  PARENTHESES
In-Reply-To: <20040222050552.38FA79300AA@mail.runrev.com>
Message-ID: <BC5E28A4.1A2E%malte.brill@t-online.de>

hi opie and all,

>GEEZ!!  I did it again!!!

<g> I always say brackets ( is that []? ) when I mean parentheses [ is that
()?]. What is the english name of these <>? If you happen to see me saying
something about brackets it is always possible I mean parentheses and vice
versa... :-(

> In the example I sent, there is a precedence problem.

I was pretty confused about that problem and if I remember correctly 1.1.1
compiled and ran the non parenthesis version.. I might be wrong there.

> P.S. Don't know what kind of graphic that pointer1 is...but...in my
> test, although it compiled correctly with the above...*my* pointer1
> didn't seem to rotate...

Needs to be a regular polygon. (I had to look it up, because it didn?t
rotate here either.)

Best,

Malte


From chrism at lumin.us  Sun Feb 22 03:47:21 2004
From: chrism at lumin.us (Christopher Mitchell)
Date: Sun, 22 Feb 2004 02:47:21 -0600
Subject: # actually the short way returns an error /  PARENTHESES
In-Reply-To: <BC5E28A4.1A2E%malte.brill@t-online.de>
References: <BC5E28A4.1A2E%malte.brill@t-online.de>
Message-ID: <BAC24640-6513-11D8-9419-000393B64EDC@lumin.us>

It is true that the polygon needs to be regular, which really leaves a 
lot to be desired... you can't rotate non-regular vector art, and you 
can't rotate groups of art regular or not.  so the things you're 
rotating are pretty limited.

and my results from rotating things I created with the weird paint tool 
experience shall not even be discussed.

btw I don't know that we call these <> delimiters anything in English.  
They are simply less-than/greater-than signs.  I know, however, they 
they are typographer's quotation marks as << >> around the world.

Yours,
Chris
On Feb 22, 2004, at 2:36 AM, Malte Brill wrote:

> hi opie and all,
>
>> GEEZ!!  I did it again!!!
>
> <g> I always say brackets ( is that []? ) when I mean parentheses [ is 
> that
> ()?]. What is the english name of these <>? If you happen to see me 
> saying
> something about brackets it is always possible I mean parentheses and 
> vice
> versa... :-(
>
>> In the example I sent, there is a precedence problem.
>
> I was pretty confused about that problem and if I remember correctly 
> 1.1.1
> compiled and ran the non parenthesis version.. I might be wrong there.
>
>> P.S. Don't know what kind of graphic that pointer1 is...but...in my
>> test, although it compiled correctly with the above...*my* pointer1
>> didn't seem to rotate...
>
> Needs to be a regular polygon. (I had to look it up, because it didn?t
> rotate here either.)
>
> Best,
>
> Malte
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>


From dcragg at lacscentre.co.uk  Sun Feb 22 04:20:37 2004
From: dcragg at lacscentre.co.uk (Dave Cragg)
Date: Sun, 22 Feb 2004 09:20:37 +0000
Subject: How could i Post binary data to perl cgi?
In-Reply-To: <D022DCEC-6508-11D8-B73B-000A95F078B6@chipp.com>
References: <20040222001954.62837.qmail@web40514.mail.yahoo.com>
 <D022DCEC-6508-11D8-B73B-000A95F078B6@chipp.com>
Message-ID: <p0602041dbc5e24316c1d@[192.168.123.7]>

At 1:29 am -0600 22/2/04, Chipp Walters wrote:
>Alejandro,
>
>Contact Dave Cragg about this. We've been working with him to do 
>just what you want in the last couple >months.

I've contacted Al off list about getting this working.

For everyone else, a beta version of libUrl incorporating multipart 
form support (and some other things) will be available soon. I just 
need to get the documentation in order.

Cheers
Dave


From mcdomi at free.fr  Sun Feb 22 05:45:49 2004
From: mcdomi at free.fr (Dom)
Date: Sun, 22 Feb 2004 11:45:49 +0100
Subject: save dialogue stuck
In-Reply-To: <200402201556.XAA27643@msr65.hinet.net>
Message-ID: <1g9k2eg.gww7hc1yhvojkM%mcdomi@free.fr>

Friedrich F. Grohmann <shedrup at ms9.hinet.net> wrote:

> I imported one medium sized HyperCard stack (approximately 5500 cards)

That's not "medium" for me ;-)

As you are switching from HC to RR, think about another strategy...
If there is lot of repeatitive data, why not resort to text (or bin)
data outside the stack, and have the stack only as a front end?

Also, when I'm struggling with an "old" HC stack, I am often happy to go
with a fresh new RR stack. sure, you have to "collect" the HC scripts
and translate them into Transcript. But there are a number of tools in
HC for that purpose!

Also again, I often "comment out" the hypertalk scripts, and translate &
test them one at a time...

HTH, Dom

-- 
Vous parlez fran?ais ? faites un tour sur le groupe francophone !
revolutionfr-subscribe at yahoogroupes.fr
Jetez un oeil sur RevoBlog <http://revoblog.free.fr> !

From shishilite at hotpop.com  Sun Feb 22 07:09:50 2004
From: shishilite at hotpop.com (shishilite at hotpop.com)
Date: Sun, 22 Feb 2004 22:09:50 +1000
Subject: # actually the short way returns an error /  PARENTHESES
In-Reply-To: <BC5E28A4.1A2E%malte.brill@t-online.de>
Message-ID: <BC5ED92E.417E%shishilite@hotpop.com>

> What is the english name of these <>?

I thought these are called "angle brackets" ? :)

http://info.astrian.net/jargon/terms/a/angle_brackets.html

Shishi


From klaus at major-k.de  Sun Feb 22 08:11:07 2004
From: klaus at major-k.de (Klaus Major)
Date: Sun, 22 Feb 2004 14:11:07 +0100
Subject: Subject: Re: Scrolling a Card?
In-Reply-To: <BC5CFDFF.51AF%pixelbird@interisland.net>
References: <BC5CFDFF.51AF%pixelbird@interisland.net>
Message-ID: <937B4632-6538-11D8-82FF-000A27B49A96@major-k.de>

Hi Ken,

> Hi Klaus,
>
>> Date: Sat, 21 Feb 2004 11:57:44 +0100
>> From: Klaus Major <klaus at major-k.de>
>> Subject: Re: Scrolling a Card?
>
>> Let me see if i get you right...
>>
>> You are faking a group with separate scrollbar-objects?
> -----------
> Nope. The group has normal scrollbars (checked in Inspector for the 
> group).
> I'm faking a 'grab' of the content of the group by setting 
> hScroll/vScroll
> ...
> the scrollbars react like their supposed to, but that's not the
> problem...read on.
> ---------
>> Why does a goup with its v- and hscrollbar set to true does not work
>> for you?
> ----------
> It does...see above.
> ----------
>> (I am still presuming a group as high/wide as a card...)
> ----------
> The stack window, yes.
> My expression moves the group and the scrollbars react OK, but it's 
> causing
> the contents to "scroll" like the scrollbars do, i.e., opposite the
> direction you move the mouse

???

Not here with my example i posted lately...

> instead of "grabbing" it and moving with the mouse.
> Does that help you to understand?

Not really :-)

If i grab the content of a group and drag it "down" the scrollbar will 
go "up",
but that's the nature of scrollbars...?

> I can send you a SC project offlist that shows exactly what I want to 
> do. SC

Sorry, i don't have SC anymore on my HD since version 3.5....

> 'grab' command allows message passing and rect bounds, very simple 
> scripts
> (I wish Rev had this feature).

Scott Rossi has some examples of that (rect bounds) , if i remember 
right...

I think it is available in RevNet...

> ...
> Like this Leica system you might have heard of:
> <http://www.lh-systems.com/products/aerial_cameras.html>

Maybe "Thumb Scroller" (waaaaaaaaaaaaay down on the RR 
contribution-page)
could also be of interest to you, check it out...

> Ken N.

Regards

Klaus Major
klaus at major-k.de
www.major-k.de


From 3mcgrath at adelphia.net  Sun Feb 22 09:38:58 2004
From: 3mcgrath at adelphia.net (Thomas McGrath III)
Date: Sun, 22 Feb 2004 09:38:58 -0500
Subject: # actually the short way returns an error /  PARENTHESES
In-Reply-To: <BC5E28A4.1A2E%malte.brill@t-online.de>
References: <BC5E28A4.1A2E%malte.brill@t-online.de>
Message-ID: <D98D22D7-6544-11D8-A8B8-000A95DA60FA@adelphia.net>

Carrots < >


On Feb 22, 2004, at 3:36 AM, Malte Brill wrote:

> What is the english name of these <>?

Thomas J. McGrath III
SCS
1000 Killarney Dr.
Pittsburgh, PA 15234
412-885-8541


From 3mcgrath at adelphia.net  Sun Feb 22 09:41:17 2004
From: 3mcgrath at adelphia.net (Thomas McGrath III)
Date: Sun, 22 Feb 2004 09:41:17 -0500
Subject: # actually the short way returns an error /  PARENTHESES
In-Reply-To: <BC5E28A4.1A2E%malte.brill@t-online.de>
References: <BC5E28A4.1A2E%malte.brill@t-online.de>
Message-ID: <2C5D4F72-6545-11D8-A8B8-000A95DA60FA@adelphia.net>

< Carrot >
{ Bracket }
[ Square Bracket ]
( Parenthesis )
\ Back Slash
/ Forward Slash
~ Tilde

All cool stuff....


Tom


On Feb 22, 2004, at 3:36 AM, Malte Brill wrote:

> What is the english name of these <>?

Thomas J. McGrath III
SCS
1000 Killarney Dr.
Pittsburgh, PA 15234
412-885-8541


From 3mcgrath at adelphia.net  Sun Feb 22 09:45:12 2004
From: 3mcgrath at adelphia.net (Thomas McGrath III)
Date: Sun, 22 Feb 2004 09:45:12 -0500
Subject: # actually the short way returns an error /  PARENTHESES
In-Reply-To: <BC5ED92E.417E%shishilite@hotpop.com>
References: <BC5ED92E.417E%shishilite@hotpop.com>
Message-ID: <B859D1BC-6545-11D8-A8B8-000A95DA60FA@adelphia.net>

< > are angle brackets in typography! but in computer jargon they have 
always been called carrots around here....


Tom

On Feb 22, 2004, at 7:09 AM, shishilite at hotpop.com wrote:

>> What is the english name of these <>?
>
> I thought these are called "angle brackets" ? :)
>
> http://info.astrian.net/jargon/terms/a/angle_brackets.html
>
> Shishi
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>
>

Thomas J. McGrath III
SCS
1000 Killarney Dr.
Pittsburgh, PA 15234
412-885-8541


From mpetrides at earthlink.net  Sun Feb 22 10:36:58 2004
From: mpetrides at earthlink.net (Marian Petrides)
Date: Sun, 22 Feb 2004 10:36:58 -0500
Subject: # actually the short way returns an error /  PARENTHESES (OT)
In-Reply-To: <B859D1BC-6545-11D8-A8B8-000A95DA60FA@adelphia.net>
References: <BC5ED92E.417E%shishilite@hotpop.com>
	<B859D1BC-6545-11D8-A8B8-000A95DA60FA@adelphia.net>
Message-ID: <F353EDF3-654C-11D8-A2CD-000A959D005E@earthlink.net>

Actually a caret  is  a ^  (shift 6 on your keyboard).  Is "carrot" the 
correct jargonese or just a misspelling of "caret?"

M

On Feb 22, 2004, at 9:45 AM, Thomas McGrath III wrote:

> < > are angle brackets in typography! but in computer jargon they have 
> always been called carrots around here....
>
>
> Tom
>
> On Feb 22, 2004, at 7:09 AM, shishilite at hotpop.com wrote:
>
>>> What is the english name of these <>?
>>
>> I thought these are called "angle brackets" ? :)
>>
>> http://info.astrian.net/jargon/terms/a/angle_brackets.html
>>
>> Shishi
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> use-revolution mailing list
>> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>>
>>
>
> Thomas J. McGrath III
> SCS
> 1000 Killarney Dr.
> Pittsburgh, PA 15234
> 412-885-8541
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>


From 3mcgrath at adelphia.net  Sun Feb 22 10:57:53 2004
From: 3mcgrath at adelphia.net (Thomas McGrath III)
Date: Sun, 22 Feb 2004 10:57:53 -0500
Subject: # actually the short way returns an error /  PARENTHESES (OT)
In-Reply-To: <F353EDF3-654C-11D8-A2CD-000A959D005E@earthlink.net>
References: <BC5ED92E.417E%shishilite@hotpop.com>
	<B859D1BC-6545-11D8-A8B8-000A95DA60FA@adelphia.net>
	<F353EDF3-654C-11D8-A2CD-000A959D005E@earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <DFB91FD4-654F-11D8-A8B8-000A95DA60FA@adelphia.net>

Your right about the ^ being a caret/carrot.
But what then are the left and right angle brackets called besides left 
and right brackets or less than/greater than???


any ideas???

T

On Feb 22, 2004, at 10:36 AM, Marian Petrides wrote:

> Actually a caret  is  a ^  (shift 6 on your keyboard).  Is "carrot" 
> the correct jargonese or just a misspelling of "caret?"
>
> M
>
> On Feb 22, 2004, at 9:45 AM, Thomas McGrath III wrote:
>
>> < > are angle brackets in typography! but in computer jargon they 
>> have always been called carrots around here....
>>
>>
>> Tom
>>
>> On Feb 22, 2004, at 7:09 AM, shishilite at hotpop.com wrote:
>>
>>>> What is the english name of these <>?
>>>
>>> I thought these are called "angle brackets" ? :)
>>>
>>> http://info.astrian.net/jargon/terms/a/angle_brackets.html
>>>
>>> Shishi
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> use-revolution mailing list
>>> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>>>
>>>
>>
>> Thomas J. McGrath III
>> SCS
>> 1000 Killarney Dr.
>> Pittsburgh, PA 15234
>> 412-885-8541
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> use-revolution mailing list
>> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>>
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>
>

Thomas J. McGrath III
SCS
1000 Killarney Dr.
Pittsburgh, PA 15234
412-885-8541


From 3mcgrath at adelphia.net  Sun Feb 22 11:12:43 2004
From: 3mcgrath at adelphia.net (Thomas McGrath III)
Date: Sun, 22 Feb 2004 11:12:43 -0500
Subject: # actually the short way returns an error /  PARENTHESES (OT)
In-Reply-To: <F353EDF3-654C-11D8-A2CD-000A959D005E@earthlink.net>
References: <BC5ED92E.417E%shishilite@hotpop.com>
	<B859D1BC-6545-11D8-A8B8-000A95DA60FA@adelphia.net>
	<F353EDF3-654C-11D8-A2CD-000A959D005E@earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <F1EF71B9-6551-11D8-A8B8-000A95DA60FA@adelphia.net>

circumflex is the language reference for ^ (shift 6) but is also 
referred to as the caret key.


On Feb 22, 2004, at 10:36 AM, Marian Petrides wrote:

> Actually a caret  is  a ^  (shift 6 on your keyboard).  Is "carrot" 
> the correct jargonese or just a misspelling of "caret?"
>
> M
>
> On Feb 22, 2004, at 9:45 AM, Thomas McGrath III wrote:
>
>> < > are angle brackets in typography! but in computer jargon they 
>> have always been called carrots around here....
>>
>>
>> Tom
>>
>> On Feb 22, 2004, at 7:09 AM, shishilite at hotpop.com wrote:
>>
>>>> What is the english name of these <>?
>>>
>>> I thought these are called "angle brackets" ? :)
>>>
>>> http://info.astrian.net/jargon/terms/a/angle_brackets.html
>>>
>>> Shishi
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> use-revolution mailing list
>>> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>>>
>>>
>>
>> Thomas J. McGrath III
>> SCS
>> 1000 Killarney Dr.
>> Pittsburgh, PA 15234
>> 412-885-8541
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> use-revolution mailing list
>> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>>
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>
>

Thomas J. McGrath III
SCS
1000 Killarney Dr.
Pittsburgh, PA 15234
412-885-8541

From rcozens at pon.net  Sun Feb 22 10:19:41 2004
From: rcozens at pon.net (Rob Cozens)
Date: Sun, 22 Feb 2004 08:19:41 -0700
Subject: Does anyone actually USE the Animation Builder?
Message-ID: <a05100300bc5e7863183a@[66.52.165.104]>

>I also think this is an OSX only thing,

>It's generic to all Mac OS versions, AFAIK.

Upon further testing, I'd like to retract that last statement.

I remembered my animations as "jumpy" in Mac OS 9; however, compared 
to the same animation on OS 10.2, they are indeed much smoother.
-- 

Rob Cozens
CCW, Serendipity Software Company
http://www.oenolog.net/who.htm

"And I, which was two fooles, do so grow three;
Who are a little wise, the best fooles bee."

from "The Triple Foole" by John Donne (1572-1631)

From b.xavier at internet.lu  Sun Feb 22 12:53:46 2004
From: b.xavier at internet.lu (MisterX)
Date: Sun, 22 Feb 2004 18:53:46 +0100
Subject: Discrete Browser version 1.5g6
In-Reply-To: <a05100300bc5e7863183a@[66.52.165.104]>
Message-ID: <ENEALNOCJBOOOHHCCEKNIEKKFNAA.b.xavier@internet.lu>

Here is the long awaited upgrade 
of the Discrete Browser version 1.5.
 
<http://monsieurx.com/modules.php?name=Downloads&d_op=getit&lid=44>

Registration no longuer required for downloads! ;)
Upgraded to PHPNuke 7.1 and revised site logo!

cheers
X

Read the help field, it will help! 

From FlexibleLearning at aol.com  Sun Feb 22 13:20:08 2004
From: FlexibleLearning at aol.com (FlexibleLearning at aol.com)
Date: Sun, 22 Feb 2004 13:20:08 EST
Subject: PARENTHESES
Message-ID: <9f.4411c8e2.2d6a4cd8@aol.com>

Your right about the ^ being a caret/carrot.
But what then are the left and right angle brackets called besides left 
and right brackets or less than/greater than???

any ideas???

T


Angle brackets (open and close).

/H

From b.xavier at internet.lu  Sun Feb 22 13:35:03 2004
From: b.xavier at internet.lu (MisterX)
Date: Sun, 22 Feb 2004 19:35:03 +0100
Subject: Discrete Browser version 1.5g6
In-Reply-To: <ENEALNOCJBOOOHHCCEKNIEKKFNAA.b.xavier@internet.lu>
Message-ID: <ENEALNOCJBOOOHHCCEKNGEKLFNAA.b.xavier@internet.lu>

added the historical and status to the home page.

<http://monsieurx.com/modules.php?name=News&file=article&sid=139>

just for those who like new things
I left unhidden the XOS language GUI managers... It's unifinished
but
(* just started today - dont expect much - got much more to
integrate)
Enjoy

X

2 weeks snowboard session - all interested - im renting a chalet in
switzerland in Verbier or Davos and splitting the costs. Free firework or
sauna RunRev sessions! (7-20 March)

> -----Original Message-----
> From: use-revolution-bounces at lists.runrev.com
> [mailto:use-revolution-bounces at lists.runrev.com]On Behalf Of MisterX
> Sent: Sunday, February 22, 2004 18:54
> To: How to use Revolution
> Subject: Discrete Browser version 1.5g6
>
>
> Here is the long awaited upgrade
> of the Discrete Browser version 1.5.
>
> <http://monsieurx.com/modules.php?name=Downloads&d_op=getit&lid=44>
>
> Registration no longuer required for downloads! ;)
> Upgraded to PHPNuke 7.1 and revised site logo!
>
> cheers
> X
>
> Read the help field, it will help!
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution


From chrism at lumin.us  Sun Feb 22 13:23:58 2004
From: chrism at lumin.us (Christopher Mitchell)
Date: Sun, 22 Feb 2004 12:23:58 -0600
Subject: # actually the short way returns an error /  PARENTHESES (OT)
In-Reply-To: <F1EF71B9-6551-11D8-A8B8-000A95DA60FA@adelphia.net>
References: <BC5ED92E.417E%shishilite@hotpop.com>
	<B859D1BC-6545-11D8-A8B8-000A95DA60FA@adelphia.net>
	<F353EDF3-654C-11D8-A2CD-000A959D005E@earthlink.net>
	<F1EF71B9-6551-11D8-A8B8-000A95DA60FA@adelphia.net>
Message-ID: <47DEE79A-6564-11D8-A8F4-000393B64EDC@lumin.us>

But not all circumflexes should be pointy, and since standard ascii 
doesn't allow for combining characters how was this intended to be 
useful as a character on a computer keyboard?  (just thinking outloud, 
as someone very familiar with using alt-key combinations and accents, 
including circumflex, this has always seemed like a second-best choice 
for what would be on the 6 key - and just following as a vestige of 
typewriters that actually allowed a back-up & overstrike)

Yours,
Chris
On Feb 22, 2004, at 10:12 AM, Thomas McGrath III wrote:

> circumflex is the language reference for ^ (shift 6) but is also 
> referred to as the caret key.
>
>
> On Feb 22, 2004, at 10:36 AM, Marian Petrides wrote:
>
>> Actually a caret  is  a ^  (shift 6 on your keyboard).  Is "carrot" 
>> the correct jargonese or just a misspelling of "caret?"
>>
>> M
>>
>> On Feb 22, 2004, at 9:45 AM, Thomas McGrath III wrote:
>>
>>> < > are angle brackets in typography! but in computer jargon they 
>>> have always been called carrots around here....
>>>
>>>
>>> Tom
>>>
>>> On Feb 22, 2004, at 7:09 AM, shishilite at hotpop.com wrote:
>>>
>>>>> What is the english name of these <>?
>>>>
>>>> I thought these are called "angle brackets" ? :)
>>>>
>>>> http://info.astrian.net/jargon/terms/a/angle_brackets.html
>>>>
>>>> Shishi
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> use-revolution mailing list
>>>> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
>>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>> Thomas J. McGrath III
>>> SCS
>>> 1000 Killarney Dr.
>>> Pittsburgh, PA 15234
>>> 412-885-8541
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> use-revolution mailing list
>>> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> use-revolution mailing list
>> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>>
>>
>
> Thomas J. McGrath III
> SCS
> 1000 Killarney Dr.
> Pittsburgh, PA 15234
> 412-885-8541
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>


From scott at tactilemedia.com  Sun Feb 22 13:28:45 2004
From: scott at tactilemedia.com (Scott Rossi)
Date: Sun, 22 Feb 2004 10:28:45 -0800
Subject: Graphic Rotation
In-Reply-To: <BAC24640-6513-11D8-9419-000393B64EDC@lumin.us>
Message-ID: <BC5E34DD.1DC9%scott@tactilemedia.com>

Recently, Christopher Mitchell wrote:

> It is true that the polygon needs to be regular, which really leaves a
> lot to be desired... you can't rotate non-regular vector art, and you
> can't rotate groups of art regular or not.  so the things you're
> rotating are pretty limited.

You might want to look at our Tangram demo stack -- you may be able to adapt
something there to your needs (math routines developed by Carl Manaster).
Enter the following in your message box and scroll to the bottom of the
list:

 go url "http://www.tactilemedia.com/tmpanel.rev"

Regards,

Scott Rossi
Creative Director

Tactile Media, Multimedia & Design
Email: scott at tactilemedia.com
Web: www.tactilemedia.com


From DouglasMackay at blueyonder.co.uk  Fri Feb 20 20:36:13 2004
From: DouglasMackay at blueyonder.co.uk (Douglas Mackay)
Date: Sat, 21 Feb 2004 01:36:13 -0000
Subject: Reading Dan's Book 
Message-ID: <000e01c3f983$ae86fce0$47bc2952@PATRIOT>

I am reading volume 1 of Dans book on page 287 ( or 313 in pdf)  he says " 
I just type the following line into the message box and hit Enter. The file will then

contain one task I can work with as a starting point. Notice that I set this task's "order"

item (the first item in the line) to 1 since it's the first and so far only task in the file.

put "1|Task A|A|Pending|8/31/03|8/31/03|Note for Task A" into URL

"file:MyToDo.txt" but the message box come up with a Script compile error:
Error description: Expression: bad factor, What does this mean  ? what am I doing wrong ? when I open thos file with notepad the file is empty     

anyone explain  to me please what a "bad factor" is     

Douglas 

From revolution at jaedworks.com  Sun Feb 22 15:59:34 2004
From: revolution at jaedworks.com (Jeanne A. E. DeVoto)
Date: Sun, 22 Feb 2004 12:59:34 -0800
Subject: Reading Dan's Book
In-Reply-To: <000e01c3f983$ae86fce0$47bc2952@PATRIOT>
References: <000e01c3f983$ae86fce0$47bc2952@PATRIOT>
Message-ID: <p06010241bc5ec7ed9aa6@[10.0.1.8]>

At 1:36 AM +0000 2/21/2004, Douglas Mackay wrote:
>put "1|Task A|A|Pending|8/31/03|8/31/03|Note for Task A" into URL
>
>"file:MyToDo.txt" but the message box come up with a Script compile error:
>Error description: Expression: bad factor, What does this mean  ? 
>what am I doing wrong ? when I open thos file with notepad the file 
>is empty
>
>anyone explain  to me please what a "bad factor" is

It means there's something wrong with the syntax when Revolution 
tries to parse the statement. (For example, if you try to divide a 
number by a letter.)

This statement works fine for me in the message box. Are you sure 
you're putting the whole thing on one line? (There shouldn't be a 
line break after the word "URL", just in case.)

Also, double-check the quotes. If "1|Task 
A|A|Pending|8/31/03|8/31/03|Note for Task A" isn't surrounded by 
double quotes, you will get a "bad factor" error because Revolution 
will think the slashes are operators and try to do division.
-- 
jeanne a. e. devoto ~ jaed at jaedworks.com
http://www.jaedworks.com

From ian at azurevision.co.uk  Sun Feb 22 16:53:56 2004
From: ian at azurevision.co.uk (Ian Wood)
Date: Sun, 22 Feb 2004 21:53:56 +0000
Subject: Making a 'droplet' application?
Message-ID: <9CF82336-6581-11D8-9B9E-0003935A2896@azurevision.co.uk>

Hi all,

I'm making a workflow app to batch process files.  With the help of the 
list archives I've got my head around drag and drop so that a list of 
files from the Finder can be dragged into a field, then every item in 
the field gets processed-

on dragDrop
	set the text of me to the dragData["files"]
	--call the function that does the processing at this point
end dragDrop

What I would like to do is make this even more transparent by dropping 
files onto the app icon, in the same way that you can with AppleScript 
droplets.  I can't see anything in the docs or list about this, and am 
wondering if it is even possible with Rev 2.1.2.

Workaround- make an AppleScript droplet that takes the list of dropped 
files and launches the Rev app, but this is kind of inelegant...

Ian


From sarahr at genesearch.com.au  Sun Feb 22 16:54:50 2004
From: sarahr at genesearch.com.au (Sarah Reichelt)
Date: Mon, 23 Feb 2004 07:54:50 +1000
Subject: [ANN] UnixCal - Mac OS X only
In-Reply-To: <6.0.1.1.2.20040220095241.01da5980@SLG_PDC>
References: <2A91932C-6374-11D8-BAB5-0003937A97B8@genesearch.com.au>
	<6.0.1.1.2.20040220095241.01da5980@SLG_PDC>
Message-ID: <BD371458-6581-11D8-BAB5-0003937A97B8@genesearch.com.au>

On 21 Feb 2004, at 2:04 am, Peter T. Evensen wrote:

> Cool app!   It's been a while since I read it, but does it say Meri 
> and Pippin met Treebeard on 2/20?
People have worked it all out based on a few dates (Shire dates & their 
conversions), phases of the moon and days spent in various places. I 
had a book of Lord of the Rings maps once that dated every stage along 
the way.
>
> But you didn't include the French, German, Croatian and Russian 
> stuff...
No, that would have involved going down into sub-folders which wasn't 
worth the effort for me. Feel free to add this yourself :-)

Cheers,
Sarah
sarahr at genesearch.com.au
http://www.troz.net/Rev/


From sarahr at genesearch.com.au  Sun Feb 22 16:56:27 2004
From: sarahr at genesearch.com.au (Sarah Reichelt)
Date: Mon, 23 Feb 2004 07:56:27 +1000
Subject: Com ports
In-Reply-To: <6.0.1.1.2.20040220154419.01bd5ec0@SLG_PDC>
References: <20040220200001.E8C3F93015C@mail.runrev.com>
	<BC5BBFE9.5181%pixelbird@interisland.net>
	<6.0.1.1.2.20040220154419.01bd5ec0@SLG_PDC>
Message-ID: <F6C43A8F-6581-11D8-BAB5-0003937A97B8@genesearch.com.au>

You should get back three lines: your original query "AT", a blank line 
and then an "OK" so don't give up after the first line comes back.

Cheers,
Sarah

> Just guessing, but if you send "at" to the port and get back an "ok" 
> that should indicate you have a modem attached...
>
> At 03:45 PM 2/20/2004, you wrote:
>> Howdy,
>>
>> I didn't get an answer before, so I'm still hoping...
>>
>> How can I query to find out if a Com port has a modem?
>>
>> Ken N.


From chrism at lumin.us  Sun Feb 22 16:59:13 2004
From: chrism at lumin.us (Christopher Mitchell)
Date: Sun, 22 Feb 2004 15:59:13 -0600
Subject: Graphic Rotation
In-Reply-To: <BC5E34DD.1DC9%scott@tactilemedia.com>
References: <BC5E34DD.1DC9%scott@tactilemedia.com>
Message-ID: <5A12B2A6-6582-11D8-A8F4-000393B64EDC@lumin.us>

Scott,

The tmpanel loaded and is very nicely designed, but the contents come 
up with a lot of html tags and the only live url is for the first demo. 
  looks like some great stuff in here hiding among the tags.

Yours,
Chris
On Feb 22, 2004, at 12:28 PM, Scott Rossi wrote:

> Recently, Christopher Mitchell wrote:
>
>> It is true that the polygon needs to be regular, which really leaves a
>> lot to be desired... you can't rotate non-regular vector art, and you
>> can't rotate groups of art regular or not.  so the things you're
>> rotating are pretty limited.
>
> You might want to look at our Tangram demo stack -- you may be able to 
> adapt
> something there to your needs (math routines developed by Carl 
> Manaster).
> Enter the following in your message box and scroll to the bottom of the
> list:
>
>  go url "http://www.tactilemedia.com/tmpanel.rev"
>
> Regards,
>
> Scott Rossi
> Creative Director
>
> Tactile Media, Multimedia & Design
> Email: scott at tactilemedia.com
> Web: www.tactilemedia.com
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>


From chrism at lumin.us  Sun Feb 22 16:59:54 2004
From: chrism at lumin.us (Christopher Mitchell)
Date: Sun, 22 Feb 2004 15:59:54 -0600
Subject: Graphic Rotation
In-Reply-To: <BC5E34DD.1DC9%scott@tactilemedia.com>
References: <BC5E34DD.1DC9%scott@tactilemedia.com>
Message-ID: <721AB16C-6582-11D8-A8F4-000393B64EDC@lumin.us>

and clicking on the demo stacks channel button a second time reloaded 
it and it is working smoothly. must have been a glitch the first time.

Yours,
Chris
On Feb 22, 2004, at 12:28 PM, Scott Rossi wrote:

> Recently, Christopher Mitchell wrote:
>
>> It is true that the polygon needs to be regular, which really leaves a
>> lot to be desired... you can't rotate non-regular vector art, and you
>> can't rotate groups of art regular or not.  so the things you're
>> rotating are pretty limited.
>
> You might want to look at our Tangram demo stack -- you may be able to 
> adapt
> something there to your needs (math routines developed by Carl 
> Manaster).
> Enter the following in your message box and scroll to the bottom of the
> list:
>
>  go url "http://www.tactilemedia.com/tmpanel.rev"
>
> Regards,
>
> Scott Rossi
> Creative Director
>
> Tactile Media, Multimedia & Design
> Email: scott at tactilemedia.com
> Web: www.tactilemedia.com
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>


From scott at tactilemedia.com  Sun Feb 22 17:08:38 2004
From: scott at tactilemedia.com (Scott Rossi)
Date: Sun, 22 Feb 2004 14:08:38 -0800
Subject: Graphic Rotation
In-Reply-To: <5A12B2A6-6582-11D8-A8F4-000393B64EDC@lumin.us>
Message-ID: <BC5E6866.1DDE%scott@tactilemedia.com>

Recently, Christopher Mitchell wrote:

> The tmpanel loaded and is very nicely designed, but the contents come
> up with a lot of html tags and the only live url is for the first demo.
> looks like some great stuff in here hiding among the tags.

Works fine here. What version of Rev are you using?

Alternatively, you can try this:

  go url "http://www.tactilemedia.com/download/tangram.rev"

Regards,

Scott Rossi
Creative Director

Tactile Media, Multimedia & Design
Email: scott at tactilemedia.com
Web: www.tactilemedia.com


From chrism at lumin.us  Sun Feb 22 17:10:14 2004
From: chrism at lumin.us (Christopher Mitchell)
Date: Sun, 22 Feb 2004 16:10:14 -0600
Subject: Graphic Rotation
In-Reply-To: <BC5E6866.1DDE%scott@tactilemedia.com>
References: <BC5E6866.1DDE%scott@tactilemedia.com>
Message-ID: <E4212C3C-6583-11D8-A8F4-000393B64EDC@lumin.us>

I got it to work with an internal reload of the demos channel.  rev 
2.1.2 .  This is some very interesting stuff in here all right.  I 
think some of the math routines could be replaced by native functions 
now in rev (like atan) but it's really neat!  Was this imported from 
HC, or are all the little cards that each hold one image (regular hc/mc 
icons) part of the optionally included graphics in the app builder?

very cool stuff, all of it.  This is a totally different application of 
the environment than I'd seen up until this point and I think some 
standalone demos of these would better impress upon my java friend that 
RunRev is not a toy gui maker.

Yours,
Chris
On Feb 22, 2004, at 4:08 PM, Scott Rossi wrote:

> Recently, Christopher Mitchell wrote:
>
>> The tmpanel loaded and is very nicely designed, but the contents come
>> up with a lot of html tags and the only live url is for the first 
>> demo.
>> looks like some great stuff in here hiding among the tags.
>
> Works fine here. What version of Rev are you using?
>
> Alternatively, you can try this:
>
>   go url "http://www.tactilemedia.com/download/tangram.rev"
>
> Regards,
>
> Scott Rossi
> Creative Director
>
> Tactile Media, Multimedia & Design
> Email: scott at tactilemedia.com
> Web: www.tactilemedia.com
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>


From kray at sonsothunder.com  Sun Feb 22 17:13:27 2004
From: kray at sonsothunder.com (Ken Ray)
Date: Sun, 22 Feb 2004 16:13:27 -0600
Subject: # actually the short way returns an error /  PARENTHESES
In-Reply-To: <2C5D4F72-6545-11D8-A8B8-000A95DA60FA@adelphia.net>
Message-ID: <002101c3f991$1c21b0d0$6601a8c0@LightningFlash>

Tom,

According to Wikipedia
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bracket_(punctuation), the () [], {} and <>
are all considered to be "brackets", but the common names are:

() Parentheses
[] Square Brackets
{} Braces
<> Angle Brackets

with alternate names as follows:

() Round Brackets, Curved Brackets, Parens, Fingernails
[] Crochets (in Great Britain, apparently)
{} Curly Brackets

Just FYI...

Ken Ray
Sons of Thunder Software
Email: kray at sonsothunder.com
Web Site: http://www.sonsothunder.com/ 

> -----Original Message-----
> From: use-revolution-bounces at lists.runrev.com 
> [mailto:use-revolution-bounces at lists.runrev.com] On Behalf Of 
> Thomas McGrath III
> Sent: Sunday, February 22, 2004 8:41 AM
> To: How to use Revolution
> Subject: Re: # actually the short way returns an error / PARENTHESES
> 
> 
> < Carrot >
> { Bracket }
> [ Square Bracket ]
> ( Parenthesis )
> \ Back Slash
> / Forward Slash
> ~ Tilde
> 
> All cool stuff....
> 
> 
> Tom
> 
> 
> On Feb 22, 2004, at 3:36 AM, Malte Brill wrote:
> 
> > What is the english name of these <>?
> 
> Thomas J. McGrath III
> SCS
> 1000 Killarney Dr.
> Pittsburgh, PA 15234
> 412-885-8541
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com 
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-> revolution
> 



From scott at tactilemedia.com  Sun Feb 22 17:28:03 2004
From: scott at tactilemedia.com (Scott Rossi)
Date: Sun, 22 Feb 2004 14:28:03 -0800
Subject: Graphic Rotation
In-Reply-To: <E4212C3C-6583-11D8-A8F4-000393B64EDC@lumin.us>
Message-ID: <BC5E6CF3.1DE5%scott@tactilemedia.com>

Recently, Christopher Mitchell wrote:

> I think some of the math routines could be replaced by native functions
> now in rev (like atan) but it's really neat!  Was this imported from
> HC, or are all the little cards that each hold one image (regular hc/mc
> icons) part of the optionally included graphics in the app builder?

As you surmised, this was originally an HC stack originally created by Carl
(I think it was '97), which was modified to work with MC/Rev (importing of
HC stacks is rarely straightforward).  It could probably be adapted to
rotate almost any object using the functions included in the stack script.
Just need the correct math.

> I think some 
> standalone demos of these would better impress upon my java friend that
> RunRev is not a toy gui maker.

In fact, the reverse may be more accurate.

Regards,

Scott Rossi
Creative Director

Tactile Media, Multimedia & Design
Email: scott at tactilemedia.com
Web: www.tactilemedia.com


From chrism at lumin.us  Sun Feb 22 17:28:48 2004
From: chrism at lumin.us (Christopher Mitchell)
Date: Sun, 22 Feb 2004 16:28:48 -0600
Subject: Graphic Rotation
In-Reply-To: <BC5E6CF3.1DE5%scott@tactilemedia.com>
References: <BC5E6CF3.1DE5%scott@tactilemedia.com>
Message-ID: <7BED1968-6586-11D8-A8F4-000393B64EDC@lumin.us>

If by this you mean non-standalones would be more impressive, he 
doesn't have the runtime environment on his machine .

Yours,
Chris
On Feb 22, 2004, at 4:28 PM, Scott Rossi wrote:
>> I think some
>> standalone demos of these would better impress upon my java friend 
>> that
>> RunRev is not a toy gui maker.
>
> In fact, the reverse may be more accurate.


From jhurley at infostations.com  Sun Feb 22 18:24:17 2004
From: jhurley at infostations.com (Jim Hurley)
Date: Sun, 22 Feb 2004 15:24:17 -0800
Subject: Graphic Rotation
In-Reply-To: <20040222220033.58ACF930071@mail.runrev.com>
References: <20040222220033.58ACF930071@mail.runrev.com>
Message-ID: <a05100302bc5ee98238a3@[66.81.141.147]>

>
>Scott,
>
>The tmpanel loaded and is very nicely designed, but the contents come
>up with a lot of html tags and the only live url is for the first demo.
>   looks like some great stuff in here hiding among the tags.
>
>Yours,
>Chris
>On Feb 22, 2004, at 12:28 PM, Scott Rossi wrote:

Chris,

This issue has been on the list before. The following script may be 
helpful. It will rotate an arbitrary set of graphic points through an 
arbitrary angle. A number of people contributed to it.

I have used a button name "Pivot", with a grab me handler, to  use as 
the point of rotation.

On mouseUP
    --Rotate a polygon "myPoly" about a button "Pivot" by 45 degrees
    rotatePoly "myPoly",the loc of button "Pivot", 45
end mouseUP

On rotatePoly theGraphic, thePivot, theAngle
   put the points of graphic theGraphic into tPoints

   put item 1 of thePivot into xPivot
   put item 2 of thePivot into yPivot

   put empty into newPointList

--Set points relative to pivot 
   repeat for each line tLine in tPoints
     put (item 1 of tLine)- xPivot & "," & (item 2 of tLine)- yPivot & 
return after tRelPoints
   end repeat

   put sin(theAngle* pi/180) into S
   put cos(theAngle * pi/180) into C

   --Rotate coordinate axes
   repeat for each line tLine in tRelPoints
     put round(C*(item 1 of tLine)+ S*(item 2 of tLine) + xPivot)& 
comma after rotPtlist
     put round(-S*(item 1 of tLine) + C*(item 2 of tLine)+ 
yPivot)after rotPtlist
     put return after rotPtList
   end repeat

   set the points of graphic theGraphic to rotPtlist

end rotatePoly

Jim

From hershbp at realtorsgroup.us  Sun Feb 22 18:41:59 2004
From: hershbp at realtorsgroup.us (hershrev)
Date: Sun, 22 Feb 2004 18:41:59 -0500
Subject: Database GUI logic 
In-Reply-To: <20040208123701.55085.qmail@web60503.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <B5567067-6590-11D8-9F90-0030654C1E62@realtorsgroup.us>

Thanks, Jan.
On Sunday, February 8, 2004, at 07:37 AM, Jan Schenkel wrote:

> --- hershrev <hershbp at realtorsgroup.us> wrote:
>> All functions work except update. (PostgreSQL)
>
> Can you pinpoint under which circumstances it doesn't
> work? A recipe or even a sample stack would help the
> RunRev crew fix the problem.
Query 1
SELECT * FROM dataBase A
Field 1= last_name Field 2=  first_name
Field 1, Connected to last name and selected last_name , field 2, 
connected to first name and selected first_name.
Now if update is checked , when modified the text of one of the fields 
it is modified in the db's, if not checked update db, and do it by 
button
I just connect the fields and create 3 buttons, 1 go to previous, 2 go 
to next  and 3 update , I change the info , click the update button and 
the info doesn't change in the db.
>
>> How do switch between query's ? In other words once
>> I need a SELECT and
>> sometime I need an INSERT and so on.
>
> If you need to execute a query without changing the
> sql that is already in the query, use the undocumented
> command
>   revExecuteWithQuery <pQueryName>,<pSQL>
> For example, suppose we have a query named "Snafu",
> and we want to execute an SQL statement in the
> database it is connected to :
> --
>   put "INSERT INTO Foo VALUES('BAR')" into tSQL
>   revExecuteWithQuery "Snafu",tSQL
Qk question, there is already a Query in the query building, what is 
the point of rewriting a Query ? should be
revExecuteWithQuery( "Snafu")  with the query it already contains ?
> --
>
>> Also the bottom line about the same code needs to be
>> written as put
>> revSelect(or Form)Query(......).into field a put
>> revSelectQuery(....).into field b and so on and then
>> to write an UPDATE
>> SQL on all concatenated fields with revExecuteSQL
>> and with some playing
>> around its also portable to different db's.
>> Or maybe to put all the info at once into a variable
>> or an Array and
>> the select from it cell by cell?
>
> I'm not sure I quite understand the first part of what
> you're getting at, but it is always possible to save
> data in an array or a custom property set as the user
> makes changes.
What I meant is , if connecting every field to a Query , and writing 
Query's for them , wouldn't be better to just write a Query to store in 
variable and then in every field put a
on event
    get item 1(for every field a different item)
end event
or for every field a Query for itself e.g. put revFormQuery 
(,,myDbid,"SELECT last_name FROM database WHERE pk ="& myPk)
the pro's , portable , the cons I don't know . If there are please 
enlighten me
> Then at the click of a button, you can go through the
> values in the array or custom property set, and build
> an sql statement that you can then execute to make all
> the changes at once.
>
> Put the following into your card script :
> --
> on closeField
>   # first check if it's a db-linked field
>   if the cREVGeneral["database"] of the target is true
See what youre trying to do , but isn't cREVGereral [] a profile 
property? because I set a field , connected to the db ,tried it but 
wondering..
> then
>     # extract which field it is linked to
>     put the cREVDatabase["linkcolumn"] of the target
> into tColumnName
>     # now save the new data in custom prop set
>     set the uDBChanges[tColumnName] of me to the text
> of the target
>   end if
> end closeField
And finally, I looked over this script a couple of times , I just don't 
grasp exactly what your doing over-here . Yes I got the point . 
concatenating the field names with the data and creating an SQL 
statement. but not the detail  how it should be done , somehow I didn't 
get it . Currently I'm focusing on doing it not with connected fields 
for the reason mentioned above. AND every thing is geared towards a 
standalone app.
I was thinking of some kind of on closeField to put the field name 
after fieldnameVar and the data after dataVar  and like to concatenate 
line by line . The question how do I match both lines of both var's ? I 
sure you have something better then this.
Thanks a million hershrev.
>
> on UpdateDB
>   # save the currently selected custom prop set
>   put the customPropertySet of me into tOldCPSet
>   set the customPropertySet of me to "uDBChanges"
>   # check which fields have been changed
>   put the customKeys of me into tColumnNames
>   # prepare data for the final sql statement
>   repeat for each line tColumnName in tColumnNames
>     put the uDBChanges[tColumnName] of me into
> tNewData
>     put tColumName & "=" & tNewData & comma after
> tFieldsAndValuesList
>   end repeat
>   delete char -1 of tFieldsAndValuesList
>   # exercise : get the primary keys and table
>   put "FOO" into tTable
>   put "foo_id" into tPrimaryKey
>   put "12345" into tPKValue
>   # now merge all this into the sql statement
>   put merge("UPDATE [[tTable]] SET
> [[tFieldsAndValuesList]] WHERE
> [[tPrimaryKey]]=[[tPKValue]]") into tSQL
>   # finally execute the sql statement
>   revExecuteWithQuery "Snafu",tSQL
>   # restore the selected custom prop set
>   set the customPropertySet of me to tOldCPSet
> end UpdateDB
> --
>
> I'll leave it as an exercise to react to mouseUp on
> checkboxes, combo boxes, etc. While the above is
> geared at using the built-in database-linked controls,
> you can use this technique to collect data for UPDATE
> and INSERT statements.
> The sql statements built this way can then be executed
> with the 'revExecuteSQL' command, as long as you feed
> it an existing databaseID.
>
>> Thanks hershrev
>>
>
> Hope this helped,
>
> Jan Schenkel.
>
> =====
> "As we grow older, we grow both wiser and more foolish at the same 
> time."  (La Rochefoucauld)
>
> __________________________________
> Do you Yahoo!?
> Yahoo! Finance: Get your refund fast by filing online.
> http://taxes.yahoo.com/filing.html
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>


From pixelbird at interisland.net  Sun Feb 22 18:43:16 2004
From: pixelbird at interisland.net (Ken Norris)
Date: Sun, 22 Feb 2004 15:43:16 -0800
Subject: Scrolling a Card?
In-Reply-To: <20040222050551.CDFA59300A8@mail.runrev.com>
Message-ID: <BC5E7E94.51DD%pixelbird@interisland.net>

Hi Frank,

> Date: Sun, 22 Feb 2004 00:02:42 +0000
> From: Frank Leahy <frank at backtalk.com>
> Subject: Re: Scrolling a Card?

> Here's code I use to scroll an image in the direction that the mouse is
> moving.
----------
Thanks, I'm looking it over.

Hmmm...couple of things:

1) I might try to convert it to a mouseMove because polling mouse events
(repeat while the mouse is down...) hogs the processor.

2) It doesn't appear to have bounds. What happens if you try to drag the
image past the hScroll or vScroll limits of the scrollbars? Does the engine
stop it automatically? Does it throw an error?

Ken N.


From dvk at dvkconsult.com.au  Sun Feb 22 18:42:58 2004
From: dvk at dvkconsult.com.au (David Vaughan)
Date: Mon, 23 Feb 2004 10:42:58 +1100
Subject: Parentheses
In-Reply-To: <20040222220033.04D9B93006B@mail.runrev.com>
References: <20040222220033.04D9B93006B@mail.runrev.com>
Message-ID: <D802CAFE-6590-11D8-B728-000A95729266@dvkconsult.com.au>


On 23/02/2004, at 9:00, FlexibleLearning at aol.com wrote:

> From: FlexibleLearning at aol.com
> Date: 23 February 2004 5:20:08 GMT+11:00
> To: use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> Subject: Re: PARENTHESES
> Reply-To: How to use Revolution <use-revolution at lists.runrev.com>
>
>
> Your right about the ^ being a caret/carrot.
> But what then are the left and right angle brackets called besides left
> and right brackets or less than/greater than???
>
> any ideas???

The nearest to a formal name for left and right angle brackets is 
guillemet. Normally, these appear as << >> and are used in European 
languages but the single form, a single guillement, is also used in 
typography. However, the guillemet is actually quite a bit smaller than 
the angle bracket used in most computer character sets while 
typographers also use a taller, less-angled version called.... well 
actually I don't know what that one is called (Tall Guillemet? Slim 
Guille?), so someone still has room to enlighten me. It seems perfectly 
good to me to keep calling them left and right angle brackets, or else 
you will sound like you are navigating in a rally for a manic in a 
Citroen.

cheers
David
>
> T

From capellan2000 at yahoo.com  Sun Feb 22 19:18:55 2004
From: capellan2000 at yahoo.com (Alejandro Tejada)
Date: Sun, 22 Feb 2004 16:18:55 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Graphic Rotation
In-Reply-To: <20040222220033.58ACF930071@mail.runrev.com>
Message-ID: <20040223001855.38988.qmail@web40505.mail.yahoo.com>

Sun, 22 Feb 2004 15:59:13 -0600
Christopher Mitchell wrote:

> >> It is true that the polygon needs to be regular,
> which really leaves a
> >> lot to be desired... you can't rotate non-regular
> vector art, and you
> >> can't rotate groups of art regular or not.  so
> the things you're
> >> rotating are pretty limited.

In RunRev, look at the function:
"revRotatePoly".

Different programmers has posted to this list (and
Metacard list) handlers to rotate poligon graphics.

In my website (look the direction at the foot
of this post) you could find a stack named
graphic transformations, that shows the use of
matrices to scale, rotate and skew poligon graphics.

al

=====
Visit my site:
http://www.geocities.com/capellan2000/
Search the mail list:
http://mindlube.com/cgi-bin/search-use-rev.cgi

__________________________________
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Yahoo! Mail SpamGuard - Read only the mail you want.
http://antispam.yahoo.com/tools

From frank at backtalk.com  Sun Feb 22 20:27:20 2004
From: frank at backtalk.com (Frank Leahy)
Date: Mon, 23 Feb 2004 01:27:20 +0000
Subject: Scrolling a Card?
In-Reply-To: <20040223001922.4CF90930091@mail.runrev.com>
Message-ID: <6CBC0AD4-659F-11D8-A349-000A9580FCCE@backtalk.com>


On Monday, February 23, 2004, at 12:19  AM, 
use-revolution-request at lists.runrev.com wrote:

> Hmmm...couple of things:
>
> 1) I might try to convert it to a mouseMove because polling mouse 
> events
> (repeat while the mouse is down...) hogs the processor.
>

Unless you have a background process that needs time in your app, it 
doesn't really matter if the processor gets hogged for a bit (and OSX 
should take care of other processes ok) -- but it might be interesting 
to code it that way.


> 2) It doesn't appear to have bounds. What happens if you try to drag 
> the
> image past the hScroll or vScroll limits of the scrollbars? Does the 
> engine
> stop it automatically? Does it throw an error?
>
> Ken N.
>

Setting the scroll negative will pin it to zero, and setting it > max 
will pin it to max.  Notice too I get the current value of the scroll 
each time through the loop, so that once it's pinned mouse movement in 
the opposite direction will start scrolling right away.

-- Frank


From scott at tactilemedia.com  Sun Feb 22 20:45:08 2004
From: scott at tactilemedia.com (Scott Rossi)
Date: Sun, 22 Feb 2004 17:45:08 -0800
Subject: Scrolling a Card?
In-Reply-To: <6CBC0AD4-659F-11D8-A349-000A9580FCCE@backtalk.com>
Message-ID: <BC5E9B24.1DFA%scott@tactilemedia.com>

>> polling mouse events
>> (repeat while the mouse is down...) hogs the processor.
>> 
> 
> Unless you have a background process that needs time in your app, it
> doesn't really matter if the processor gets hogged for a bit (and OSX
> should take care of other processes ok) -- but it might be interesting
> to code it that way.

In the past, another important concern for constructs such as "repeat while
the mouse is down" or "repeat until the mouse is up" was that the mouseup
event would sometimes get overlooked in the repeat handler.  I don't know if
this issue was ever addressed at a lower level but the possibility of
missing a mouse event, as well as the additional processor use, were
significant reasons for avoiding the aforementioned type of script.

Regards,

Scott Rossi
Creative Director

Tactile Media, Multimedia & Design
Email: scott at tactilemedia.com
Web: www.tactilemedia.com


From sarahr at genesearch.com.au  Sun Feb 22 22:41:47 2004
From: sarahr at genesearch.com.au (Sarah Reichelt)
Date: Mon, 23 Feb 2004 13:41:47 +1000
Subject: Making a 'droplet' application?
In-Reply-To: <9CF82336-6581-11D8-9B9E-0003935A2896@azurevision.co.uk>
References: <9CF82336-6581-11D8-9B9E-0003935A2896@azurevision.co.uk>
Message-ID: <3511B66A-65B2-11D8-BAB5-0003937A97B8@genesearch.com.au>

You will need to set up an AppleEvent handler in your stack script that 
recognises when a document is dropped on it, gets the name of the 
document(s) and processes them. You may also need to set up a defined 
file type. I think there have been discussions about this on the list 
in the past, so search the archives as well as checking the docs for 
AppleEvent.

Cheers,
Sarah

On 23 Feb 2004, at 7:52 am, Ian Wood wrote:

> Hi all,
>
> I'm making a workflow app to batch process files.  With the help of 
> the list archives I've got my head around drag and drop so that a list 
> of files from the Finder can be dragged into a field, then every item 
> in the field gets processed-
>
> on dragDrop
> 	set the text of me to the dragData["files"]
> 	--call the function that does the processing at this point
> end dragDrop
>
> What I would like to do is make this even more transparent by dropping 
> files onto the app icon, in the same way that you can with AppleScript 
> droplets.  I can't see anything in the docs or list about this, and am 
> wondering if it is even possible with Rev 2.1.2.
>
> Workaround- make an AppleScript droplet that takes the list of dropped 
> files and launches the Rev app, but this is kind of inelegant...
>
> Ian


From shedrup at ms9.hinet.net  Sun Feb 22 23:03:35 2004
From: shedrup at ms9.hinet.net (Friedrich F. Grohmann)
Date: Mon, 23 Feb 2004 12:03:35 +0800
Subject: save dialogue stuck
Message-ID: <200402230401.MAA21326@msr11.hinet.net>

I highly appreciate Jacqueline's comments sent on 21.2.2004 10:30. At the 
very beginning she wrote:

>
>You mentioned this was a fairly large stack, as Rev goes. 5,500 cards is 
>pretty much the limit in Rev. A stack this size will normally take a 
>while to save. 

To be honest, this statement struck me like lightening. One of the HC 
stacks I use most often has more than 30 000 cards and stands at 5.9 MB. 
It is a dictionary which works flawlessly and as swift as I could wish in 
tandem with another stack containing text. As a matter of fact, it is 
still growing in size. In more than four years of frequently daily and 
intensive use, I had a single case of card corruption which, if I 
remember correctly, had to do with some mechanical mishap not with the 
operation of the stack itself. This problem was dealt with very easily.

That's my experience with HC. Despite the size, despite different scripts 
 in the stacks I develop for my research and also for teaching purposes 
(things like Chinese, Devanagari or Tibetan), these stacks are reliable 
and a joy to use. 

I am now thinking of moving to Rev and you mention 5500 cards come close 
to the limit. This is indeed very, very bad news for me. I rushed to 
check the Rev  documentation and it says that the maximum number of 
objects in a stack is "unlimited." Admittedly I'm getting confused. The 
stack in question has now 1.2 MB. Is this too much for Rev under OS X? 

> I've also noticed that sometimes you have to move the 
>cursor outside the window and back again before it will redraw, so the 
>shape you see may not always tell you what the actual state is. Try 
>moving the mouse to check, before resorting to a second "save".

I've done that. It didn't help.
>
>Since this is an imported HC stack, there may be other problems too. It 
>is very important to compact the stack in HC at least twice in a row 
>before importing it to Revolution, especially one this large. If the 
>stack was not thoroughly compacted before import, there could be lots of 
>extraneous junk in there that is slowing down the save process in Rev. 
>This seems a likely culprit to me.

I cannot imagine that this is the problem here. Years ago I learned 
through the HC list, I seem to remember even through some of your 
contributions, about the advantage of compacting twice in a row after 
sorting the cards of a stack. Since the stack in question here is another 
dictionary project of mine and needs to be sorted when new cards have 
been added, the sort button script includes double compact. The copy I 
opened in Rev was a sorted stack.

>
>Finally, try setting the HCAddressing property to false. You don't need 
>it in Rev. I don't really think this will make all that much difference, 
>but I usually do it anyway. It does affect some aspects of stack 
>behavior sometimes, and you don't need it to be true when working in 
>Revolution.
>

I was not aware of this property and happily followed your suggestion. So 
far, saving works fine and hopefully stays that way. 

Thank you so much for your help.

Fritz

From 3mcgrath at adelphia.net  Sun Feb 22 22:41:48 2004
From: 3mcgrath at adelphia.net (Thomas McGrath III)
Date: Sun, 22 Feb 2004 22:41:48 -0500
Subject: # actually the short way returns an error /  PARENTHESES
In-Reply-To: <002101c3f991$1c21b0d0$6601a8c0@LightningFlash>
References: <002101c3f991$1c21b0d0$6601a8c0@LightningFlash>
Message-ID: <35561848-65B2-11D8-A8B8-000A95DA60FA@adelphia.net>

cool


t
On Feb 22, 2004, at 5:13 PM, Ken Ray wrote:

> Tom,
>
> According to Wikipedia
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bracket_(punctuation), the () [], {} and 
> <>
> are all considered to be "brackets", but the common names are:
>
> () Parentheses
> [] Square Brackets
> {} Braces
> <> Angle Brackets
>
> with alternate names as follows:
>
> () Round Brackets, Curved Brackets, Parens, Fingernails
> [] Crochets (in Great Britain, apparently)
> {} Curly Brackets
>
> Just FYI...
>
> Ken Ray
> Sons of Thunder Software
> Email: kray at sonsothunder.com
> Web Site: http://www.sonsothunder.com/
>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: use-revolution-bounces at lists.runrev.com
>> [mailto:use-revolution-bounces at lists.runrev.com] On Behalf Of
>> Thomas McGrath III
>> Sent: Sunday, February 22, 2004 8:41 AM
>> To: How to use Revolution
>> Subject: Re: # actually the short way returns an error / PARENTHESES
>>
>>
>> < Carrot >
>> { Bracket }
>> [ Square Bracket ]
>> ( Parenthesis )
>> \ Back Slash
>> / Forward Slash
>> ~ Tilde
>>
>> All cool stuff....
>>
>>
>> Tom
>>
>>
>> On Feb 22, 2004, at 3:36 AM, Malte Brill wrote:
>>
>>> What is the english name of these <>?
>>
>> Thomas J. McGrath III
>> SCS
>> 1000 Killarney Dr.
>> Pittsburgh, PA 15234
>> 412-885-8541
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> use-revolution mailing list
>> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-> revolution
>>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>
>

Thomas J. McGrath III
SCS
1000 Killarney Dr.
Pittsburgh, PA 15234
412-885-8541


From 3mcgrath at adelphia.net  Sun Feb 22 22:45:28 2004
From: 3mcgrath at adelphia.net (Thomas McGrath III)
Date: Sun, 22 Feb 2004 22:45:28 -0500
Subject: Parentheses
In-Reply-To: <D802CAFE-6590-11D8-B728-000A95729266@dvkconsult.com.au>
References: <20040222220033.04D9B93006B@mail.runrev.com>
	<D802CAFE-6590-11D8-B728-000A95729266@dvkconsult.com.au>
Message-ID: <B8B8D152-65B2-11D8-A8B8-000A95DA60FA@adelphia.net>

:-)



On Feb 22, 2004, at 6:42 PM, David Vaughan wrote:

>
> On 23/02/2004, at 9:00, FlexibleLearning at aol.com wrote:
>
>> From: FlexibleLearning at aol.com
>> Date: 23 February 2004 5:20:08 GMT+11:00
>> To: use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
>> Subject: Re: PARENTHESES
>> Reply-To: How to use Revolution <use-revolution at lists.runrev.com>
>>
>>
>> Your right about the ^ being a caret/carrot.
>> But what then are the left and right angle brackets called besides 
>> left
>> and right brackets or less than/greater than???
>>
>> any ideas???
>
> The nearest to a formal name for left and right angle brackets is 
> guillemet. Normally, these appear as << >> and are used in European 
> languages but the single form, a single guillement, is also used in 
> typography. However, the guillemet is actually quite a bit smaller 
> than the angle bracket used in most computer character sets while 
> typographers also use a taller, less-angled version called.... well 
> actually I don't know what that one is called (Tall Guillemet? Slim 
> Guille?), so someone still has room to enlighten me. It seems 
> perfectly good to me to keep calling them left and right angle 
> brackets, or else you will sound like you are navigating in a rally 
> for a manic in a Citroen.
>
> cheers
> David
>>
>> T
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>
>

Thomas J. McGrath III
SCS
1000 Killarney Dr.
Pittsburgh, PA 15234
412-885-8541


From scott at tactilemedia.com  Sun Feb 22 23:33:17 2004
From: scott at tactilemedia.com (Scott Rossi)
Date: Sun, 22 Feb 2004 20:33:17 -0800
Subject: save dialogue stuck
In-Reply-To: <200402230401.MAA21326@msr11.hinet.net>
Message-ID: <BC5EC28D.A4C2%scott@tactilemedia.com>

>> You mentioned this was a fairly large stack, as Rev goes. 5,500 cards is
>> pretty much the limit in Rev. A stack this size will normally take a
>> while to save. 

> To be honest, this statement struck me like lightening. One of the HC
> stacks I use most often has more than 30 000 cards and stands at 5.9 MB.
> ...
> I am now thinking of moving to Rev and you mention 5500 cards come close
> to the limit. This is indeed very, very bad news for me. I rushed to
> check the Rev  documentation and it says that the maximum number of
> objects in a stack is "unlimited." Admittedly I'm getting confused. The
> stack in question has now 1.2 MB. Is this too much for Rev under OS X?

I just now created a new stack and ran a script to generate 30,000 cards
that all have a shared group.  Took about a minute or so to run.  No problem
here on OSX.

 lock screen;repeat for 30000;create cd;end repeat;answer "done"

Regards,

Scott Rossi
Creative Director
Tactile Media, Development & Design
-----
E: scott at tactilemedia.com
W: http://www.tactilemedia.com


From jperryl at ecs.fullerton.edu  Sun Feb 22 23:36:12 2004
From: jperryl at ecs.fullerton.edu (Judy Perry)
Date: Sun, 22 Feb 2004 20:36:12 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Does anyone actually USE the Animation Builder?
In-Reply-To: <a05100300bc5e7863183a@[66.52.165.104]>
Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.4.33.0402222035180.7280-100000@titan.ecs.fullerton.edu>

But in my class, they still suck a bit in OS 9...  Maybe not as much as in
X, but still sucky IMHO...

Judy


On Sun, 22 Feb 2004, Rob Cozens wrote:

> >I also think this is an OSX only thing,
>
> >It's generic to all Mac OS versions, AFAIK.
>
> Upon further testing, I'd like to retract that last statement.
>
> I remembered my animations as "jumpy" in Mac OS 9; however, compared
> to the same animation on OS 10.2, they are indeed much smoother.
> --



From jacque at hyperactivesw.com  Mon Feb 23 00:15:41 2004
From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay)
Date: Sun, 22 Feb 2004 23:15:41 -0600
Subject: save dialogue stuck
In-Reply-To: <200402230401.MAA21326@msr11.hinet.net>
References: <200402230401.MAA21326@msr11.hinet.net>
Message-ID: <40398C7D.5000908@hyperactivesw.com>

On 2/22/04 10:03 PM, Friedrich F. Grohmann wrote:

> I am now thinking of moving to Rev and you mention 5500 cards come close 
> to the limit. This is indeed very, very bad news for me. I rushed to 
> check the Rev  documentation and it says that the maximum number of 
> objects in a stack is "unlimited." Admittedly I'm getting confused. The 
> stack in question has now 1.2 MB. Is this too much for Rev under OS X? 

No, not at all. I should explain more. There is no theoretical limit to 
the number of cards, and you can create as many cards as you like within 
the limitations of your hardware and RAM. There are two things, however, 
that make very large database stacks less practical in Revolution than 
they were in HyperCard.

The first is that HyperCard is disk-based; you can have very large 
stacks that run in a very small amount of memory because each card loads 
as needed. Revolution loads the entire stack into RAM at once, which 
makes it run much faster, but which also requires that the user have as 
much RAM as the stack takes on disk (plus a little more for the engine.) 
It doesn't sound like memory is a problem yet with your stack, though.

The second thing that is much different is the "find" command which is 
commonly used in HyperCard to search a card-based database. HC used its 
famous "hint bits" to create an incredibly fast search. Revolution does 
not use hint bits and Rev's card and field searching is noticeably 
slower than HyperCard's. This was the primary limitation I was talking 
about. If you are using typical HC search routines to look up words in 
your dictionary, you may find in very large stacks that the "find" 
command becomes too slow to be suitable. Under these conditions, it is 
usually recommended that MC/Rev be used as a front-end to a more 
traditional, dedicated database.

However, if you are using a custom indexing routine rather than using 
"find", you may be just fine.

Scott Raney used to recommend that stacks not go above 3-5,000 cards or 
so before being moved to a more formal database. That isn't a hard 
number, just a suggestion. I always took it to mean that performance 
slowed enough after that to make a difference. Speed would also probably 
depend on how many objects and backgrounds are in the stack

>>Finally, try setting the HCAddressing property to false. You don't need 
>>it in Rev. I don't really think this will make all that much difference, 
>>but I usually do it anyway. It does affect some aspects of stack 
>>behavior sometimes, and you don't need it to be true when working in 
>>Revolution.
>>
> 
> I was not aware of this property and happily followed your suggestion. So 
> far, saving works fine and hopefully stays that way. 

So that made the delay go away? That's good to know. :)


-- 
Jacqueline Landman Gay         |     jacque at hyperactivesw.com
HyperActive Software           |     http://www.hyperactivesw.com

From frank at backtalk.com  Mon Feb 23 03:50:14 2004
From: frank at backtalk.com (Frank Leahy)
Date: Mon, 23 Feb 2004 08:50:14 +0000
Subject: C to transcript parser?
Message-ID: <4BF46A9C-65DD-11D8-A349-000A9580FCCE@backtalk.com>

Hello,

Has anyone written a C to Transcript parser by chance?  I'm porting 
some C code that parses the EXIF header in JPEG files, and it's a lot 
of code, and I'd rather not have to do it all by hand.

Thanks in advance,
-- Frank


From frank at backtalk.com  Mon Feb 23 04:31:16 2004
From: frank at backtalk.com (Frank Leahy)
Date: Mon, 23 Feb 2004 09:31:16 +0000
Subject: Making a 'droplet' application?
In-Reply-To: <20040223085047.24736930056@mail.runrev.com>
Message-ID: <07753576-65E3-11D8-A349-000A9580FCCE@backtalk.com>


On Monday, February 23, 2004, at 08:50  AM, 
use-revolution-request at lists.runrev.com wrote:

> Subject: Re: Making a 'droplet' application?
> To: How to use Revolution <use-revolution at lists.runrev.com>
> Message-ID: <3511B66A-65B2-11D8-BAB5-0003937A97B8 at genesearch.com.au>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed
>
> You will need to set up an AppleEvent handler in your stack script that
> recognises when a document is dropped on it, gets the name of the
> document(s) and processes them. You may also need to set up a defined
> file type. I think there have been discussions about this on the list
> in the past, so search the archives as well as checking the docs for
> AppleEvent.
>
> Cheers,
> Sarah
>

Sarah,

Do you know how to make this work on a Windows machine?

Thanks,
-- Frank


From richmond at mail.maclaunch.com  Mon Feb 23 03:59:02 2004
From: richmond at mail.maclaunch.com (Mathewson)
Date: Mon, 23 Feb 2004 03:59:02 -0500
Subject: revSpeak and Windows XP
Message-ID: <web-314890294@mail.maclaunch.com>

Dear RunRev Afficionados,
   I put together a rather sophisticated stack yesterday:
I card with one button containing the script:

on mouseDown
   revSpeak "Hello"
end mouseDown

on my jolly Mac G4 when I clicked on the button the very
silly 'Dalek' speech synthesizer said 'Hello' - as one
would expect!!

moved the stack into my Virtual PC running Windows XP and
featuring an equally silly Dalek called "Microsoft Sam"

clicked button - NIX!

bright ideas all gratefully recieved!

Richmond Mathewson
__________________________________________________
See Mathewson's software at:

http://members.maclaunch.com/richmond/default.html    and
http://www.runrev.com/Revolution1/developercentral/usercontributions.html
_______________________________________
---------------------------------------------------------------
Great Macintosh Products 
 The MacLaunch Store! http://www.maclaunch.com/cgi-launch/store/agora.cgi
---------------------------------------------------------------

From frank at backtalk.com  Mon Feb 23 06:31:08 2004
From: frank at backtalk.com (Frank Leahy)
Date: Mon, 23 Feb 2004 11:31:08 +0000
Subject: C to Transcript converter [was C to transcript parser?]
Message-ID: <C65D60AA-65F3-11D8-A349-000A9580FCCE@backtalk.com>

Just to clarify...I'm porting a big batch of C code to Transcript and 
looking for some quick and dirty Transcript code that will parse the C 
and make it look like Transcript.

For example, it would turn things like "x = 1" into "put 1 into x" , "x 
+= 1" into "add 1 to x", add "end function_name" to the end of each 
function, remove braces, add "end if" in the right places, etc.

Thanks,
-- Frank


From ian at azurevision.co.uk  Mon Feb 23 06:44:54 2004
From: ian at azurevision.co.uk (Ian Wood)
Date: Mon, 23 Feb 2004 11:44:54 +0000
Subject: Associating filetypes (was: Making a 'droplet' application?)
In-Reply-To: <3511B66A-65B2-11D8-BAB5-0003937A97B8@genesearch.com.au>
References: <9CF82336-6581-11D8-9B9E-0003935A2896@azurevision.co.uk>
	<3511B66A-65B2-11D8-BAB5-0003937A97B8@genesearch.com.au>
Message-ID: <B27E127E-65F5-11D8-9B9E-0003935A2896@azurevision.co.uk>

Thanks for that, I've managed to get the filepath of the JPEG used to 
launch my app, but I had to use "open with".

Having read the docs & archives on file associations, I altered the 
.plist file to add image file associations (only JPEG so far), but was 
stumped for awhile, as the association didn't kick in until I copied 
the standalone to another computer, where the application prebindings 
were presumably updated on the spot.  Oddly enough, dumping the 
standalone in the Trash and then moving it back out did the job on the 
original computer...

For anyone else trying this on OS X, the relevant part of the .plist is:

	<key>CFBundleDocumentTypes</key>
	<array>
		<dict>
			<key>CFBundleTypeExtensions</key>
			<array>
				<string>jpg</string>
				<string>jpeg</string>
			</array>
			<key>CFBundleTypeIconFile</key>
			<string>RevolutionDoc.icns</string>
			<key>CFBundleTypeMIMETypes</key>
			<string></string>
			<key>CFBundleTypeName</key>
			<string>JPEG image</string>
			<key>CFBundleTypeOSTypes</key>
			<array>
				<string>JPEG</string>
			</array>
			<key>CFBundleTypeRole</key>
			<array>
				<string>image/jpeg</string>
			</array>
		</dict>
-- You can add another <dict></dict> set of tags at this point for 
other filetypes.
	</array>

The handler in the stack script used to catch the AppleEvent was:

on AppleEvent
	request appleEvent ID
	if it = "odoc" then
		request appleEvent data
		put it into aeFilePath
	end if
	pass appleEvent
end appleEvent

Ian

On 23 Feb 2004, at 03:41, Sarah Reichelt wrote:

> You will need to set up an AppleEvent handler in your stack script 
> that recognises when a document is dropped on it, gets the name of the 
> document(s) and processes them. You may also need to set up a defined 
> file type. I think there have been discussions about this on the list 
> in the past, so search the archives as well as checking the docs for 
> AppleEvent.
>
> Cheers,
> Sarah
>
<snip>
>> What I would like to do is make this even more transparent by 
>> dropping files onto the app icon, in the same way that you can with 
>> AppleScript droplets.  I can't see anything in the docs or list about 
>> this, and am wondering if it is even possible with Rev 2.1.2.
>>
>> Workaround- make an AppleScript droplet that takes the list of 
>> dropped files and launches the Rev app, but this is kind of 
>> inelegant...
>>
>> Ian


From nnoydb at excite.com  Mon Feb 23 08:28:05 2004
From: nnoydb at excite.com (Kevin)
Date: Mon, 23 Feb 2004 08:28:05 -0500 (EST)
Subject: Immediate/Compile Time Execution for 
Message-ID: <20040223132805.BEB59B6ED@xprdmailfe17.nwk.excite.com>


> Ken Ray:
> on preOpenStack
> start using "libMyStuff.mc"
> end preOpenStack
> It simply looks for a stack with that name in the current directory and
> then loads it as a library. The stack doesn't have to be already open
> and in memory to be able to "library" it.

Thanks, I was not aware of this the documentation did not elude it in any way.  
Is is possible to call it like so:

start using "../common/utils.rev" (and is this multi-platform compatible)

I ask since I am not readily at a computer with RR to test it myself.

> Rob Cozen:
> As others have noted, there is considerable discussion of this 
> subject in the List archives.
> The solution I have proposed, and would be interested in hearing your 
> reaction to, is support for an external symbol table stack that would 
> be referenced by the Script Editor when compiling.
> Using the symbol table, a developer could:
> 1. Declare constants globally instead of inside every script that 
> references them
>
> 2. Explicitly type variables, including pointers & handles
>
> 3. Define record structure field names, assigning variable type & offset
>
> 4. Define system call names, including # of arguments & "system glue" 
> (eg: register assignment) info
>
> The compiler would check the symbol table stack(s) [if present] when 
> resolving symbols.

This would definitely be a step in the appropriate direction.  However,  if Runtime
exposed a lower level API the xTalk,Transcript ... community could build language
extensions.  Thus releasing Runtime developers to focus more important things.

Personally, I have always been a low level developer I prefer creating my own constructs
and expanding on those already present.  If I do not like something about a language
I would like to have the power to correct it or circumvent it.

> Brian Yennie:
> 
> I'm a bit lost as to where you're headed with this, but hopefully some 
> of this background helps:
> * Transcript is compiled into bytecode when you save a script. It is 
> not purely interpreted- think Java (conceptually at least).
> * The "do" command allows you to execute arbitrary scripts at runtime, 
> but is subject to the scriptLimits property.
> * You can write your own "handlers" to add commands and functions to 
> the language
> * You can write externals in C or C++ to add commands and functions to 
> the language
> * There are no #if, #include, #define, etc directives, but there is 
> "start using" , "insert script" and constant declarations.
> * commandNames(), functionNames(), externalCommands() and 
> externalFunctions() can give you a list of all built-in commands and 
> functions, along with external commands and functions.

Thanks, for the education!  My purpose originally was to simply be educated
about the compile time/immediate constructs available to me.  Since it seems
the documentation I have fails to address those individuals interested on the lower
level facilities.  Now I would like to persuade RR to give developers access to the
the lower level building blocks so we can extend the language ourselves.





_______________________________________________
Join Excite! - http://www.excite.com
The most personalized portal on the Web!

From mcdomi at free.fr  Mon Feb 23 08:58:18 2004
From: mcdomi at free.fr (Dom)
Date: Mon, 23 Feb 2004 14:58:18 +0100
Subject: My ISP doesn't accept "Client CGI" = No RR CGI ;-<
Message-ID: <1g9m6lx.4sv94z18kxm46M%mcdomi@free.fr>

I asked about the Unix flavor my ISP uses, and I am answered that he
doesn't accept "Client CGI" -- in fact subscribers are only allowed to
run PHP scripts (and maybe Perl scripts)...

I am asking in french groups if there is an ISP here in France that
accepts to do that...

For those who run such RR CGI: do you have your personal server, or is
it placed on a ISP server?

-- 
Vous parlez fran?ais ? faites un tour sur le groupe francophone !
revolutionfr-subscribe at yahoogroupes.fr
Jetez un oeil sur RevoBlog <http://revoblog.free.fr> !

From jbv.silences at Club-Internet.fr  Mon Feb 23 09:17:06 2004
From: jbv.silences at Club-Internet.fr (jbv)
Date: Mon, 23 Feb 2004 15:17:06 +0100
Subject: My ISP doesn't accept "Client CGI" = No RR CGI ;-<
References: <1g9m6lx.4sv94z18kxm46M%mcdomi@free.fr>
Message-ID: <403A0B60.FFE4CBEA@Club-Internet.fr>

Most ISPs will refuse to install any CGI app, unless you buy your own
domain name and run the CGI app on a dedicated server (it'll cost you
around 100 to 150 euros a month).
Of course, having your own server will make your life easier...

JB


> I asked about the Unix flavor my ISP uses, and I am answered that he
> doesn't accept "Client CGI" -- in fact subscribers are only allowed to
> run PHP scripts (and maybe Perl scripts)...
>
> I am asking in french groups if there is an ISP here in France that
> accepts to do that...
>
> For those who run such RR CGI: do you have your personal server, or is
> it placed on a ISP server?


From psahores at easynet.fr  Mon Feb 23 09:29:25 2004
From: psahores at easynet.fr (Pierre Sahores)
Date: Mon, 23 Feb 2004 15:29:25 +0100
Subject: My ISP doesn't accept "Client CGI" = No RR CGI ;-<
In-Reply-To: <1g9m6lx.4sv94z18kxm46M%mcdomi@free.fr>
References: <1g9m6lx.4sv94z18kxm46M%mcdomi@free.fr>
Message-ID: <AE6BF35D-660C-11D8-9B0B-000A95C61E96@easynet.fr>

Hi,

All my REV/MC based apps are hosted on my customers dedicated servers 
(Linux x86, XServeG4/Panther).

-- 
Bien cordialement, Pierre Sahores

100, rue de Paris
F - 77140 Nemours

psahores at easynet.fr

GSM:   +33 6 03 95 77 70
Pro:      +33 1 41 60 52 68
Dom:    +33 1 64 45 05 33
Fax:      +33 1 64 45 05 33

Inspection acad?mique de Seine-Saint-Denis
Applications et SGBD ACID SQL (WEB et PGI)
Penser et produire "delta de productivit?"

Le 23 f?vr. 04, ? 14:58, Dom a ?crit :

> -- snip --
>
> For those who run such RR CGI: do you have your personal server, or is
> it placed on a ISP server?
>
> -- 
> Vous parlez fran?ais ? faites un tour sur le groupe francophone !
> revolutionfr-subscribe at yahoogroupes.fr
> Jetez un oeil sur RevoBlog <http://revoblog.free.fr> !
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>


From pevensen at siboneylg.com  Mon Feb 23 10:04:39 2004
From: pevensen at siboneylg.com (Peter T. Evensen)
Date: Mon, 23 Feb 2004 09:04:39 -0600
Subject: revSpeak and Windows XP
In-Reply-To: <web-314890294@mail.maclaunch.com>
References: <web-314890294@mail.maclaunch.com>
Message-ID: <6.0.1.1.2.20040223090347.01ddb6d0@SLG_PDC>

There is a note in the release document that the speech library doesn't 
work with the latest version that comes with XP.  You need to go back to a 
previous version of the Microsoft speech tool kit.... I'm not sure how one 
does that, but it is a know bug.

At 02:59 AM 2/23/2004, you wrote:
>Dear RunRev Afficionados,
>    I put together a rather sophisticated stack yesterday:
>I card with one button containing the script:
>
>on mouseDown
>    revSpeak "Hello"
>end mouseDown
>
>on my jolly Mac G4 when I clicked on the button the very
>silly 'Dalek' speech synthesizer said 'Hello' - as one
>would expect!!
>
>moved the stack into my Virtual PC running Windows XP and
>featuring an equally silly Dalek called "Microsoft Sam"
>
>clicked button - NIX!
>
>bright ideas all gratefully recieved!
>
>Richmond Mathewson
>__________________________________________________
>See Mathewson's software at:
>
>http://members.maclaunch.com/richmond/default.html    and
>http://www.runrev.com/Revolution1/developercentral/usercontributions.html
>_______________________________________
>---------------------------------------------------------------
>Great Macintosh Products
>  The MacLaunch Store! http://www.maclaunch.com/cgi-launch/store/agora.cgi
>---------------------------------------------------------------
>_______________________________________________
>use-revolution mailing list
>use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
>http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution

Peter T. Evensen
http://www.PetersRoadToHealth.com
24-hour recorded info hotline: 1-800-624-7671 


From pevensen at siboneylg.com  Mon Feb 23 10:06:23 2004
From: pevensen at siboneylg.com (Peter T. Evensen)
Date: Mon, 23 Feb 2004 09:06:23 -0600
Subject: [ANN] UnixCal - Mac OS X only
In-Reply-To: <BD371458-6581-11D8-BAB5-0003937A97B8@genesearch.com.au>
References: <2A91932C-6374-11D8-BAB5-0003937A97B8@genesearch.com.au>
 <6.0.1.1.2.20040220095241.01da5980@SLG_PDC>
 <BD371458-6581-11D8-BAB5-0003937A97B8@genesearch.com.au>
Message-ID: <6.0.1.1.2.20040223090515.01dc24e0@SLG_PDC>

At 03:54 PM 2/22/2004, you wrote:
>On 21 Feb 2004, at 2:04 am, Peter T. Evensen wrote:
>>
>>But you didn't include the French, German, Croatian and Russian stuff...
>No, that would have involved going down into sub-folders which wasn't 
>worth the effort for me. Feel free to add this yourself :-)

Some how I knew you'd say that!  Not to mention finding a Russian font... 
and translating the French and German escape characters.

Peter T. Evensen
http://www.PetersRoadToHealth.com
24-hour recorded info hotline: 1-800-624-7671 


From rjb at rz.uni-potsdam.de  Mon Feb 23 10:04:35 2004
From: rjb at rz.uni-potsdam.de (Robert Brenstein)
Date: Mon, 23 Feb 2004 16:04:35 +0100
Subject: # actually the short way returns an error /  PARENTHESES
In-Reply-To: <002101c3f991$1c21b0d0$6601a8c0@LightningFlash>
References: <002101c3f991$1c21b0d0$6601a8c0@LightningFlash>
Message-ID: <a06020410bc5fc69e8e84@[141.89.100.235]>

>Tom,
>
>According to Wikipedia
>http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bracket_(punctuation), the () [], {} and <>
>are all considered to be "brackets", but the common names are:
>
>() Parentheses
>[] Square Brackets
>{} Braces
><> Angle Brackets
>
>with alternate names as follows:
>
>() Round Brackets, Curved Brackets, Parens, Fingernails
>[] Crochets (in Great Britain, apparently)
>{} Curly Brackets
>
>Just FYI...
>
>Ken Ray
>Sons of Thunder Software
>Email: kray at sonsothunder.com
>Web Site: http://www.sonsothunder.com/


Good overview, Ken. Just one addition for alternatives:

<> Sharp Brackets

Robert

From dburgun at dsl.pipex.com  Mon Feb 23 10:31:28 2004
From: dburgun at dsl.pipex.com (David Burgun)
Date: Mon, 23 Feb 2004 15:31:28 +0000
Subject: RunRev Pricing
In-Reply-To: <403A0B60.FFE4CBEA@Club-Internet.fr>
References: <1g9m6lx.4sv94z18kxm46M%mcdomi@free.fr>
 <403A0B60.FFE4CBEA@Club-Internet.fr>
Message-ID: <a05210604bc5fca0d60c0@[192.168.1.100]>

Hi All,

The pricing for RunRev seems odd to me, the prices currently on offer 
are as follows:

Enterprise $999	Runs and Generates code for MacOS X, MacOS 9, Windows 
(many versions) and Linux.
Studio $299	Runs on one OS Platform and Generates code for MacOS 
X, MacOS 9, Windows (many versions) and Linux.
Express $149	Runs on one Platform and generates code for that one platform.

My company just bought a Studio version of RunRev for MacOS X, which 
is fine for my work Mac. However at home I have an older Mac that 
doesn't support MacOS X and I would like to be able to run RunRev 
under MacOS 9.2.2 on that machine.

However, it looks like the only way I can do this is to pay $149 for 
an Express version, making a total of $488 to just give me the 
ability to run on two OSes.

Is there some way I could get a deal on a version that just runs 
under MacOS 9? If not, I'm not sure I want to pay $149 and so I 
probably won't buy it and so I won't get into RR as quickly and 
Runtime Revolution Ltd won't make *any* money!!!!

I think a better pricing plan would be to charge a base price for the 
RR Engine, then a price for each Platform that you want to run on and 
another price for each platform that you want to generate code for.

I really don't been to run RR on Windows or Linux or any of those 
other platforms, but I *might* want to generate code for them, as it 
is, I would have to pay a lot more to get something I don't need if I 
were to buy the Enterprise edition.

Just my 5 cents worth!!!

All the Best and Thanks RR for making one of the best development 
tools I have had the pleasure to work with!

Dave


From rcozens at pon.net  Mon Feb 23 08:59:15 2004
From: rcozens at pon.net (Rob Cozens)
Date: Mon, 23 Feb 2004 06:59:15 -0700
Subject: Beginners global variable pb
In-Reply-To: <169F7BA2-63B1-11D8-A8B8-000A95DA60FA@adelphia.net>
References: <BC5AB1F7.163B1%leraillezB@netinfo.fr>
 <169F7BA2-63B1-11D8-A8B8-000A95DA60FA@adelphia.net>
Message-ID: <a05100303bc5fb5c3a933@[66.52.165.25]>

>Switch master profiles based upon language chosen. set up properties 
>for each language and fill things up from there.

Benoit, Tom, et al.

I believe the process described above is the one the designers of 
Revolution expect people to use to support multi-lingual applications.

Note that, compared to the method I outlined for Graham, this 
approach requires that the text for all supported languages be stored 
in the application when it ships.  This means that (a) the text for 
all languages is loaded in RAM with the standalone, (b) no languages 
except those supported in the original distribution build can be 
supported without rebuilding the application, and (c) creating a 
user-translatable application is much more difficult.
-- 

Rob Cozens
CCW, Serendipity Software Company
http://www.oenolog.net/who.htm

"And I, which was two fooles, do so grow three;
Who are a little wise, the best fooles bee."

from "The Triple Foole" by John Donne (1572-1631)

From rcozens at pon.net  Mon Feb 23 09:52:38 2004
From: rcozens at pon.net (Rob Cozens)
Date: Mon, 23 Feb 2004 07:52:38 -0700
Subject: Immediate/Compile Time Execution for
In-Reply-To: <20040223132805.BEB59B6ED@xprdmailfe17.nwk.excite.com>
References: <20040223132805.BEB59B6ED@xprdmailfe17.nwk.excite.com>
Message-ID: <a05100305bc5fb98a8c79@[66.52.165.25]>

>if Runtime
>exposed a lower level API the xTalk,Transcript ... community could 
>build language
>extensions.

Frank,

As a business applications programmer, I rarely have occasion to 
program at the level you describe; so pardon me if I'm missing the 
big picture.

* One can extend the language to recognize new commands by writing 
handlers to perform the functionality and placing them in a library 
stack or other script.

* One can extend the language to recognize new commands by writing 
externals in C or another language and including the externals in a 
library stack or other stack.

* One cannot write one's own version of a Transcript command with the 
same name and place it in the message path ahead of the engine [just 
tested this]

So it seems to me one can EXTEND Transcript functionality without too 
much difficulty.  The problem arises when one tries to MODIFY 
existing Transcript command functionality or add/change compiler 
syntax..

Before I wrote a handler to resolve SDB field name references to the 
correct record field at runtime, I gave some thought to writing a 
script preprocessor  that would let the developer reference fields by 
dataname in the Script Editor and convert the script text to change 
references like "TYPE:dataName" to "item [fieldNumber] of TYPEBuffer 
-- >TYPE:dataName<" before compiling and to convert the references 
back when the developer reedits the script.

With such a preprocessor, you should be able to script "x=1" and have 
the preprocessor convert that to "put 1 into x" and vice versa.

I run out of ideas that don't require cooperation from the Run Rev 
team at this point.
-- 

Rob Cozens
CCW, Serendipity Software Company
http://www.oenolog.net/who.htm

"And I, which was two fooles, do so grow three;
Who are a little wise, the best fooles bee."

from "The Triple Foole" by John Donne (1572-1631)

From alex at mindlube.com  Mon Feb 23 11:05:57 2004
From: alex at mindlube.com (Alex Rice)
Date: Mon, 23 Feb 2004 09:05:57 -0700
Subject: My ISP doesn't accept "Client CGI" = No RR CGI ;-<
In-Reply-To: <403A0B60.FFE4CBEA@Club-Internet.fr>
References: <1g9m6lx.4sv94z18kxm46M%mcdomi@free.fr>
	<403A0B60.FFE4CBEA@Club-Internet.fr>
Message-ID: <2A5BDCA3-661A-11D8-884F-000393C4760A@mindlube.com>


On Feb 23, 2004, at 7:17 AM, jbv wrote:

> Most ISPs will refuse to install any CGI app, unless you buy your own
> domain name and run the CGI app on a dedicated server (it'll cost you
> around 100 to 150 euros a month).
> Of course, having your own server will make your life easier...

That's usually not the case with U.S. ISPs. Here is one I recommend
<http://www.he.net/>

--
Alex Rice | Mindlube Software | http://mindlube.com


From alex at mindlube.com  Mon Feb 23 11:08:25 2004
From: alex at mindlube.com (Alex Rice)
Date: Mon, 23 Feb 2004 09:08:25 -0700
Subject: Qt vs Revolution (NOT Apple Quicktime)
In-Reply-To: <B4C071D8-64E5-11D8-8291-003065683ECC@inspiredlogic.com>
References: <85C5AFDD-5F17-11D8-84BF-000A9567A3E6@swcp.com>
	<924EF42B-5F2B-11D8-90F0-000393C4760A@mindlube.com>
	<9CF32AFC-5F2D-11D8-A777-000393B64EDC@lumin.us>
	<F40EFB43-5F74-11D8-90F0-000393C4760A@mindlube.com>
	<B4C071D8-64E5-11D8-8291-003065683ECC@inspiredlogic.com>
Message-ID: <828396BB-661A-11D8-884F-000393C4760A@mindlube.com>


On Feb 21, 2004, at 8:17 PM, Geoff Canyon wrote:

> Not wx? http://wxwindows.org/

Last time I looked, several years ago, wx was pretty new and rough 
around the edges, and Qt was a full-fledged professional toolkit. At 
the time wx was wrappers for native widgets, and Qt was emulated 
xplatform widgets. Don't know if that distinction is still true.

--
Alex Rice | Mindlube Software | http://mindlube.com


From alex at mindlube.com  Mon Feb 23 11:09:54 2004
From: alex at mindlube.com (Alex Rice)
Date: Mon, 23 Feb 2004 09:09:54 -0700
Subject: Qt vs Revolution (NOT Apple Quicktime)
In-Reply-To: <F7986B7C-64EE-11D8-9746-000A9567A3E6@swcp.com>
References: <F7986B7C-64EE-11D8-9746-000A9567A3E6@swcp.com>
Message-ID: <B77F6B34-661A-11D8-884F-000393C4760A@mindlube.com>


On Feb 21, 2004, at 9:24 PM, Dar Scott wrote:

> I tried to sell Revolution, but I kept getting responses like "But Qt 
> has an openGL canvas!"

And they don't need a GLCanvas?
Dar are you the programmer or just a consultant? If you're the 
programmer, maybe they need an estimate of time developing in Runrev 
vs. C++. Then they will see where you are coming from.

--
Alex Rice | Mindlube Software | http://mindlube.com


From jbv.silences at Club-Internet.fr  Mon Feb 23 11:14:55 2004
From: jbv.silences at Club-Internet.fr (jbv)
Date: Mon, 23 Feb 2004 17:14:55 +0100
Subject: My ISP doesn't accept "Client CGI" = No RR CGI ;-<
References: <1g9m6lx.4sv94z18kxm46M%mcdomi@free.fr>
	<2A5BDCA3-661A-11D8-884F-000393C4760A@mindlube.com>
Message-ID: <403A26FA.60DF84D4@Club-Internet.fr>



Alex,

Just curious : what exactly is "not the case with US ISPs" ?
And would the one you mentioned (for instance) accept to host
an overseas website, and let the developper install whatever app
he wants ?
And what about rates, any idea ?

Thanks,
JB

> On Feb 23, 2004, at 7:17 AM, jbv wrote:
>
> > Most ISPs will refuse to install any CGI app, unless you buy your own
> > domain name and run the CGI app on a dedicated server (it'll cost you
> > around 100 to 150 euros a month).
> > Of course, having your own server will make your life easier...
>
> That's usually not the case with U.S. ISPs. Here is one I recommend
> <http://www.he.net/>
>




From ambassador at fourthworld.com  Mon Feb 23 11:28:02 2004
From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin)
Date: Mon, 23 Feb 2004 08:28:02 -0800
Subject: My ISP doesn't accept "Client CGI" = No RR CGI ;-<
In-Reply-To: <403A0B60.FFE4CBEA@Club-Internet.fr>
References: <1g9m6lx.4sv94z18kxm46M%mcdomi@free.fr>
	<403A0B60.FFE4CBEA@Club-Internet.fr>
Message-ID: <403A2A12.8020500@fourthworld.com>

> Most ISPs will refuse to install any CGI app, unless you buy your own
> domain name and run the CGI app on a dedicated server (it'll cost you
> around 100 to 150 euros a month).

Tierranet.com is a Rev-friendly hosting service (RevNet lives there).

-- 
  Richard Gaskin
  Fourth World Media Corporation
  ___________________________________________________________
  Ambassador at FourthWorld.com       http://www.FourthWorld.com

From alex at mindlube.com  Mon Feb 23 11:32:50 2004
From: alex at mindlube.com (Alex Rice)
Date: Mon, 23 Feb 2004 09:32:50 -0700
Subject: My ISP doesn't accept "Client CGI" = No RR CGI ;-<
In-Reply-To: <403A26FA.60DF84D4@Club-Internet.fr>
References: <1g9m6lx.4sv94z18kxm46M%mcdomi@free.fr>
	<2A5BDCA3-661A-11D8-884F-000393C4760A@mindlube.com>
	<403A26FA.60DF84D4@Club-Internet.fr>
Message-ID: <EC03715E-661D-11D8-884F-000393C4760A@mindlube.com>


On Feb 23, 2004, at 9:14 AM, jbv wrote:
> Just curious : what exactly is "not the case with US ISPs" ?

Sorry, I meant CGI is usually available, even with low-end web hosting 
accounts.

> And would the one you mentioned (for instance) accept to host
> an overseas website, and let the developper install whatever app
> he wants ?

I assume so, but don't know. You better read their service agreement 
and levels of service.

They allow not only CGI, but also have SSH (like telnet) and ability to 
compile stuff, run cron jobs, and so forth. A real Unix shell account. 
The only thing you wouldn't be able to do is install stuff that needs 
root privileges.

> And what about rates, any idea ?

see <http://he.net/hosting.html>

Not the cheapest, but it's a really great value. If you look at their 
connectivity, and look at the hardware their servers are running, it's 
pretty impressive.

The server I am on (a shared server) is a dual-3Ghz Pentium 4, 2 GB 
RAM, Linux 2.4, journaled filesystem.

Facility <http://he.net/about_fac.html>
Network <http://he.net/about_nw.html>
Referral <http://he.net/referral.html> put in alex at mindlube.com for 
"How" :-)

--
Alex Rice | Mindlube Software | http://mindlube.com


From ambassador at fourthworld.com  Mon Feb 23 11:35:04 2004
From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin)
Date: Mon, 23 Feb 2004 08:35:04 -0800
Subject: RunRev Pricing
In-Reply-To: <a05210604bc5fca0d60c0@[192.168.1.100]>
References: <1g9m6lx.4sv94z18kxm46M%mcdomi@free.fr>
	<403A0B60.FFE4CBEA@Club-Internet.fr> <a05210604bc5fca0d60c0@[192.168.1.100]>
Message-ID: <403A2BB8.8080004@fourthworld.com>

> My company just bought a Studio version of RunRev for MacOS X, 
 > which is fine for my work Mac. However at home I have an older
 > Mac that doesn't support MacOS X and I would like to be able to
 > run RunRev under MacOS 9.2.2 on that machine.
> 
> However, it looks like the only way I can do this is to pay $149
 > for an Express version, making a total of $488 to just give me
 > the ability to run on two OSes.
> 
> Is there some way I could get a deal on a version that just runs
 > under MacOS 9? If not, I'm not sure I want to pay $149 and so I
 > probably won't buy it and so I won't get into RR as quickly and
 > Runtime Revolution Ltd won't make *any* money!!!!
> 
> I think a better pricing plan would be to charge a base price for
 > the RR Engine, then a price for each Platform that you want to run
 > on and another price for each platform that you want to generate
 > code for.

Agreed.

But as for getting going with Mac, I believe all Mac versions are 
included in the Mac license, which would mean both OS X and the older 
Classic.   I can't imagine RunRev would charge separately for the 
defunct OS 9.

-- 
  Richard Gaskin
  Fourth World Media Corporation
  ___________________________________________________________
  Ambassador at FourthWorld.com       http://www.FourthWorld.com


From ambassador at fourthworld.com  Mon Feb 23 11:41:16 2004
From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin)
Date: Mon, 23 Feb 2004 08:41:16 -0800
Subject: save dialogue stuck
In-Reply-To: <40398C7D.5000908@hyperactivesw.com>
References: <200402230401.MAA21326@msr11.hinet.net>
	<40398C7D.5000908@hyperactivesw.com>
Message-ID: <403A2D2C.6050806@fourthworld.com>

> Scott Raney used to recommend that stacks not go above
 > 3-5,000 cards or so before being moved to a more formal
 > database. That isn't a hard number, just a suggestion.

That's predicated on the assumption that you're using a stack as a flat 
table.  If you use arrays or tab-delimited chunks in custom properties 
you can safely exceed that by many times; I've been working with a data 
set here of about 50,000 records in a simple list, and my WebMerge 
product processes exported databases as tab-delimited text quickly -- we 
have some customers processing 100,000 records without a hitch.

Of course, keep in mind it's all RAM-based so if your records are large 
you may get tight on memory.  But like the old Panaroma database product 
shows, RAM-based databases can be viable in many circumstances.

-- 
  Richard Gaskin
  Fourth World Media Corporation
  ___________________________________________________________
  Ambassador at FourthWorld.com       http://www.FourthWorld.com


From mlindley at telusplanet.net  Tue Feb 24 12:12:20 2004
From: mlindley at telusplanet.net (m)
Date: Tue, 24 Feb 2004 10:12:20 -0700
Subject: Flushing the "flushEvents" command...
Message-ID: <000001c3faf9$5e315d40$14ceb8a1@unknown>

Ok, here?s my problem: in my app I have groups that pop-up (not
stacks
groups that include graphics, buttons, fields, etc
) but they are
much smaller than the full window.  I don?t want the user to be able
click outside the area of the popped-up group until that group?s actions
are completed.  I?ve been trying several things, all of which don?t seem
to be working. 
 
It would seem to me that using ?flushEvents? should solve this problem,
but my app just seems to ignore this command and allow the user to click
where ever he/she wants.
 
Here is an example of my problem (I place this script in the popped-up
group?s script):
 
On mouseDown
            If the clickLoc is not within the rect of me then
                        Get flushEvents(?all?)
                        Beep
            End if
End mouseDown
 
The problem seems to persist even if I replace ?clickLoc? with
?mouseLoc.?  What am I doing wrong with this?  Am I using this command
properly?  Is there an easier way to solve this problem? 
 
I?ve been trying to use the ?exit mouseDown? command [or mouseUp

whatever] to interrupt the user?s click, but it seems to be ignored too.
I?m not sure what I?m doing wrong with this

 
Here?s my temporary workaround
 I use a cumbersome if
then statement in
the Card script to identify if the group?s ?visible? is true or not.  If
it is then I just hide the popped up group if the user clicks outside of
it.  Obviously, that?s not the smartest way to go.  Help!

From John.Patten at sbcusd.k12.ca.us  Mon Feb 23 12:46:29 2004
From: John.Patten at sbcusd.k12.ca.us (Patten, John)
Date: Mon, 23 Feb 2004 09:46:29 -0800
Subject: Barcode Like scanning technology on flatbed...?
Message-ID: <36E9B08E93F99F47AC1BF02B47CDBD8101DCC3DE@mail01.sbdom.sbcusd>

Hi All!

Has anybody ever did any work with flatbed scanners and barcode reading? It wouldn't have to be a barcode, but some kind of digital signature.

I'm thinking there should be a way to process a jpeg image after being scanned , save the image and then parse out the digital data that represents the area on the scanned document that is the digital signature.  If the signature did not change, like a barcode, then you could use the data that makes up the digital signature as an identifier.

Not sure if this makes sense, I'm not a programmer, but this seems like it should work...??

Are there xcmds or hooks that would allow something like this to work from within Rev?

Thank You!

John Patten
Tech Dept
SBCUSD

From kray at sonsothunder.com  Mon Feb 23 12:50:08 2004
From: kray at sonsothunder.com (Ken Ray)
Date: Mon, 23 Feb 2004 11:50:08 -0600
Subject: My ISP doesn't accept "Client CGI" = No RR CGI ;-<
In-Reply-To: <403A2A12.8020500@fourthworld.com>
Message-ID: <004b01c3fa35$7af73d60$6601a8c0@LightningFlash>

> > Most ISPs will refuse to install any CGI app, unless you 
> buy your own 
> > domain name and run the CGI app on a dedicated server 
> (it'll cost you 
> > around 100 to 150 euros a month).

My MC/Rev CGIs are stored on OLM.net, and I'm paying $19.99/month.

HTH,

Ken Ray
Sons of Thunder Software
Email: kray at sonsothunder.com
Web Site: http://www.sonsothunder.com/ 



From 3mcgrath at adelphia.net  Mon Feb 23 13:00:38 2004
From: 3mcgrath at adelphia.net (Thomas McGrath III)
Date: Mon, 23 Feb 2004 13:00:38 -0500
Subject: save dialogue stuck
In-Reply-To: <403A2D2C.6050806@fourthworld.com>
References: <200402230401.MAA21326@msr11.hinet.net>
	<40398C7D.5000908@hyperactivesw.com> <403A2D2C.6050806@fourthworld.com>
Message-ID: <301A3207-662A-11D8-A8B8-000A95DA60FA@adelphia.net>

Richard,

I am working on an addition to Panorama at the moment and before now 
had never heard of it. When I saw your reference below I was floored.

Do you know anything else about Panorama?
I need to emulate a demo where it appears to interact with Panorama. It 
does not actually have to but I need it to look like it is.
I was going to do this in Rev with screen shots of Panorama mixed with 
Rev fields to show how our addition would work if included.
Are Pano and Rev related at all???
I don't really have time to learn Pano to do the demo from within it.
I saw the scripting in Pano and it looked different than Rev.
what are your thoughts??

Thanks in advance,

Tom

On Feb 23, 2004, at 11:41 AM, Richard Gaskin wrote:

>> Scott Raney used to recommend that stacks not go above
> > 3-5,000 cards or so before being moved to a more formal
> > database. That isn't a hard number, just a suggestion.
>
> That's predicated on the assumption that you're using a stack as a 
> flat table.  If you use arrays or tab-delimited chunks in custom 
> properties you can safely exceed that by many times; I've been working 
> with a data set here of about 50,000 records in a simple list, and my 
> WebMerge product processes exported databases as tab-delimited text 
> quickly -- we have some customers processing 100,000 records without a 
> hitch.
>
> Of course, keep in mind it's all RAM-based so if your records are 
> large you may get tight on memory.  But like the old Panaroma database 
> product shows, RAM-based databases can be viable in many 
> circumstances.
>
> -- 
>  Richard Gaskin
>  Fourth World Media Corporation
>  ___________________________________________________________
>  Ambassador at FourthWorld.com       http://www.FourthWorld.com
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>
>

Thomas J. McGrath III
SCS
1000 Killarney Dr.
Pittsburgh, PA 15234
412-885-8541


From b.xavier at internet.lu  Mon Feb 23 13:23:38 2004
From: b.xavier at internet.lu (MisterX)
Date: Mon, 23 Feb 2004 19:23:38 +0100
Subject: Barcode Like scanning technology on flatbed...?
In-Reply-To: <36E9B08E93F99F47AC1BF02B47CDBD8101DCC3DE@mail01.sbdom.sbcusd>
Message-ID: <ENEALNOCJBOOOHHCCEKNKELEFNAA.b.xavier@internet.lu>

John,

it's called image recognition. Built-in any OCR for long time. There's
plenty of options now...

For programming, it's a good use of neural networks and semantic nets allow
you good control of this inclusive reconstitutions
or interpolations. Search for "image recognition faq" at google.

Heavy subject. loads of libraries and code available.

In transcript you could do it but the number of iterations
is geometrical on image size - the scale or rotate factors would become a
computational problem. So go C[++] on this, better, buy a good OCR and use
it on any scanner or buy a specialized scanner...

If it's a UPC straight and full resolution bitmap image (can't get simpler
than that for this utopical situation), it can be done in transcript with
distance calculations in relatively short time (algebra 101 algorithms).
You'd need the UPC specs though and a scale calibration. Then the fun
starts...

Xavier ;)


> -----Original Message-----
> From: use-revolution-bounces at lists.runrev.com
> [mailto:use-revolution-bounces at lists.runrev.com]On Behalf Of Patten,
> John
> Sent: Monday, February 23, 2004 18:46
> To: use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> Subject: Barcode Like scanning technology on flatbed...?
>
>
> Hi All!
>
> Has anybody ever did any work with flatbed scanners and barcode
> reading? It wouldn't have to be a barcode, but some kind of
> digital signature.
>
> I'm thinking there should be a way to process a jpeg image after
> being scanned , save the image and then parse out the digital
> data that represents the area on the scanned document that is the
> digital signature.  If the signature did not change, like a
> barcode, then you could use the data that makes up the digital
> signature as an identifier.
>
> Not sure if this makes sense, I'm not a programmer, but this
> seems like it should work...??
>
> Are there xcmds or hooks that would allow something like this to
> work from within Rev?
>
> Thank You!
>
> John Patten
> Tech Dept
> SBCUSD
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution


From b.xavier at internet.lu  Mon Feb 23 13:29:49 2004
From: b.xavier at internet.lu (MisterX)
Date: Mon, 23 Feb 2004 19:29:49 +0100
Subject: Custom props 201 hard question
In-Reply-To: <000001c3faf9$5e315d40$14ceb8a1@unknown>
Message-ID: <ENEALNOCJBOOOHHCCEKNCELFFNAA.b.xavier@internet.lu>

Hi everyone,

Just hoping I can elucidate this with your help.
It's a matter of organization I need, and maybe
there's a simpler way... That would be example 1
which works. But in terms of organization, im not
really hip to it...

So here's me using custom props sets...

on initializeXOSLanguage
  repeat for each line l in fld "randomlist"
    set the XOS[l] of this stack to random(100)
  end repeat
end initializeXOSLanguage

Results in a customproperty set named XOS with a list
of custom properties (l) each with a random value. EZ...

-- but

   set the custompropertyset of this stack to "XOS"
   repeat for each line l in fld "aboutlanguages"
     put helptext into aboutlanguages[l]
   end repeat
   set the aboutlanguages of this stack to helptext

does nothing - creates the xos cps if not already there.

on initializeXOSLanguage
  set the custompropertyset of this stack to "XOS"
  put the htmltext of fld "help" into helptext
  repeat for each line l in fld "aboutlanguages"
    set the aboutlanguages[l] of this stack to helptext
  end repeat
end initializeXOSLanguage

This works but sets the aboutlanguages property as a set which contains each
"l" which contain the helptext. It is not in the xos custom set!
I believe the p[o] forces things as a c-property set which is the variable
name of the array.

  set the custompropertyset of this stack to "XOS"
  put the htmltext of fld "help" into helptext
  repeat for each line l in fld "aboutlanguages"
    put helptext into test[l] -- ex 1
    set the aboutlanguages[l] of this stack to helptext -- ex 2
  end repeat
  set the aboutlanguages of this stack to test -- ex 2

  put helptext into the aboutlanguages of this stack -- compile error
  set the xos["aboutlanguages"] of this stack to test -- compile error too

Example 1 and 2 gives you an error.

So how can I store an array into a custom property in a set?

  set the xos["aboutlanguages"] of this stack to test
  -- test is the array

I tried other combos but am really stuck...

Is there support to store an array into a custom property?

I have resolved to

  set the xos["aboutlanguages",l] of this stack to helptext

but it's ugly and requires another cps browser if
CPS XOS is to contain loads more info...
Also you can't get the keys of xos...

any solution welcome...

cheers
Xavier


From herz at ucsd.edu  Mon Feb 23 13:18:24 2004
From: herz at ucsd.edu (Richard K. Herz)
Date: Mon, 23 Feb 2004 10:18:24 -0800
Subject: My ISP doesn't accept "Client CGI" = No RR CGI ;-<
References: <20040223164150.47A6D930077@mail.runrev.com>
Message-ID: <00fa01c3fa39$6d322ab0$58bfef84@maerkhpc1>

I run CGI scripts (currently using last MC engine) at
http://aletiahosting.com/hosting.php .  I picked it because MetaCard Corp
used at one time. Aletia is owned and run by JaguarPC which has same plans
and probably same people, policies and servers
http://www.jaguarpc.com/index.php?loc=hosting 

Rich Herz



From davis.phil at comcast.net  Mon Feb 23 13:47:25 2004
From: davis.phil at comcast.net (Phil Davis)
Date: Mon, 23 Feb 2004 10:47:25 -0800
Subject: Flushing the "flushEvents" command...
References: <000001c3faf9$5e315d40$14ceb8a1@unknown>
Message-ID: <000901c3fa3d$7b78a8c0$9d7ba8c0@RON7XP>

The way your code is right now, if the user clicks outside the rect of the
group, the group won't receive the message.

One way to get the effect you want:
You could use a frontscript that is only inserted while the popup group is
visible. It would look like this:

on mouseDown
  if the mouseLoc is within the rect of group "popup" then
    pass mouseDown
  else
    Get flushEvents("all")
    Beep
  end if
end mouseDown

This way you can make mouseDown ineffective unless it happens inside your
popup.


HTH -
Phil Davis



----- Original Message -----
From: "m" <mlindley at telusplanet.net>
To: <use-revolution at lists.runrev.com>
Sent: Tuesday, February 24, 2004 9:12 AM
Subject: Flushing the "flushEvents" command...


Ok, here's my problem: in my app I have groups that pop-up (not
stacks.groups that include graphics, buttons, fields, etc.) but they are
much smaller than the full window.  I don't want the user to be able
click outside the area of the popped-up group until that group's actions
are completed.  I've been trying several things, all of which don't seem
to be working.

It would seem to me that using "flushEvents" should solve this problem,
but my app just seems to ignore this command and allow the user to click
where ever he/she wants.

Here is an example of my problem (I place this script in the popped-up
group's script):

On mouseDown
            If the clickLoc is not within the rect of me then
                        Get flushEvents("all")
                        Beep
            End if
End mouseDown

The problem seems to persist even if I replace "clickLoc" with
"mouseLoc."  What am I doing wrong with this?  Am I using this command
properly?  Is there an easier way to solve this problem?

I've been trying to use the "exit mouseDown" command [or mouseUp.
whatever] to interrupt the user's click, but it seems to be ignored too.
I'm not sure what I'm doing wrong with this.

Here's my temporary workaround. I use a cumbersome if.then statement in
the Card script to identify if the group's "visible" is true or not.  If
it is then I just hide the popped up group if the user clicks outside of
it.  Obviously, that's not the smartest way to go.  Help!
_______________________________________________
use-revolution mailing list
use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution


From rcozens at pon.net  Mon Feb 23 12:49:22 2004
From: rcozens at pon.net (Rob Cozens)
Date: Mon, 23 Feb 2004 10:49:22 -0700
Subject: Custom props 201 hard question
In-Reply-To: <ENEALNOCJBOOOHHCCEKNCELFFNAA.b.xavier@internet.lu>
References: <ENEALNOCJBOOOHHCCEKNCELFFNAA.b.xavier@internet.lu>
Message-ID: <a05100301bc5fe93ac0c5@[66.52.165.75]>

>So here's me using custom props sets...
>
>on initializeXOSLanguage
>   repeat for each line l in fld "randomlist"
>     set the XOS[l] of this stack to random(100)
>   end repeat
>end initializeXOSLanguage
>
>Results in a customproperty set named XOS with a list
>of custom properties (l) each with a random value. EZ...
>
>-- but
>
>    set the custompropertyset of this stack to "XOS"
>    repeat for each line l in fld "aboutlanguages"
>      put helptext into aboutlanguages[l]
>    end repeat
>    set the aboutlanguages of this stack to helptext
>
>does nothing - creates the xos cps if not already there.

Hi Xavier,

I'm having trouble visualizing this without seeing, for example, the 
content of field "aboutlanguages" and the variable helpText.  As I 
read the second example, you are placing the same text string 
(helpText) in each element of a cps array keyed by a line of text 
from field "aboutlanguages"; so if field "aboutlanguages" contained:

	Fran?ais
	Deutsche
	espa?ol

then after the repeat you have:

	aboutLanguages[Fran?ais] = helpText
	aboutLanguages[Deutsche] = helpText
	aboutLanguages[espa?ol] = helpText

and in the next statement you set the stack's aboutlanguages property 
to helpText

Is that what you intended?
-- 

Rob Cozens
CCW, Serendipity Software Company
http://www.oenolog.net/who.htm

"And I, which was two fooles, do so grow three;
Who are a little wise, the best fooles bee."

from "The Triple Foole" by John Donne (1572-1631)

From jacque at hyperactivesw.com  Mon Feb 23 13:53:20 2004
From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay)
Date: Mon, 23 Feb 2004 12:53:20 -0600
Subject: save dialogue stuck
In-Reply-To: <403A2D2C.6050806@fourthworld.com>
References: <200402230401.MAA21326@msr11.hinet.net>
	<40398C7D.5000908@hyperactivesw.com> <403A2D2C.6050806@fourthworld.com>
Message-ID: <403A4C20.6010003@hyperactivesw.com>

On 2/23/04 10:41 AM, Richard Gaskin wrote:

>> Scott Raney used to recommend that stacks not go above
> 
>  > 3-5,000 cards or so before being moved to a more formal
>  > database. That isn't a hard number, just a suggestion.
> 
> That's predicated on the assumption that you're using a stack as a flat 
> table.  If you use arrays or tab-delimited chunks in custom properties 
> you can safely exceed that by many times;

Can you do a search and/or find with that system? For imported HC 
database stacks, that's usually the show stopper. If you have a method 
for searching, I could sure use it myself. Do you iterate through all 
the properties/text chunks? Is that fast enough?

-- 
Jacqueline Landman Gay         |     jacque at hyperactivesw.com
HyperActive Software           |     http://www.hyperactivesw.com

From mcdomi at free.fr  Mon Feb 23 13:58:26 2004
From: mcdomi at free.fr (Dom)
Date: Mon, 23 Feb 2004 19:58:26 +0100
Subject: put URL "the Address" and get a directory?
Message-ID: <1g9mkk1.1yxoikz1kk7lw6M%mcdomi@free.fr>

Is it possible  to get a *directory* of a web site, rather than the
default "index.html" file?

I have a small test stack, to onto my web site... I know I can go "ftp"
(with giving my identity & password)

But if "theAddress" is a "http" one, it seems that I cannot get the
directory, only files... where am i wrong?

-- 
Vous parlez fran?ais ? faites un tour sur le groupe francophone !
revolutionfr-subscribe at yahoogroupes.fr
Jetez un oeil sur RevoBlog <http://revoblog.free.fr> !

From b.xavier at internet.lu  Mon Feb 23 14:15:49 2004
From: b.xavier at internet.lu (MisterX)
Date: Mon, 23 Feb 2004 20:15:49 +0100
Subject: put URL "the Address" and get a directory?
In-Reply-To: <1g9mkk1.1yxoikz1kk7lw6M%mcdomi@free.fr>
Message-ID: <ENEALNOCJBOOOHHCCEKNIELGFNAA.b.xavier@internet.lu>



> -----Original Message-----
> From: use-revolution-bounces at lists.runrev.com
> [mailto:use-revolution-bounces at lists.runrev.com]On Behalf Of Dom
> Sent: Monday, February 23, 2004 19:58
> To: use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> Subject: put URL "the Address" and get a directory?
>
>
> Is it possible  to get a *directory* of a web site, rather than the
> default "index.html" file?

usually not. set by default to give you 404 error or the default page.

> I have a small test stack, to onto my web site... I know I can go "ftp"
> (with giving my identity & password)
>
> But if "theAddress" is a "http" one, it seems that I cannot get the
> directory, only files... where am i wrong?

you need either a cgi to do it for you (php, c, RR...)
some sites do allow it when browsing subdirectories...
http://www.whatever.com/files/

but not in the root naturally...

Xav.vax

> --
> Vous parlez fran?ais ? faites un tour sur le groupe francophone !
> revolutionfr-subscribe at yahoogroupes.fr
> Jetez un oeil sur RevoBlog <http://revoblog.free.fr> !
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution


From albrecht at act-net.com  Mon Feb 23 14:37:04 2004
From: albrecht at act-net.com (A.C.T.)
Date: Mon, 23 Feb 2004 18:37:04 -0100
Subject: put URL "the Address" and get a directory?
In-Reply-To: <1g9mkk1.1yxoikz1kk7lw6M%mcdomi@free.fr>
References: <1g9mkk1.1yxoikz1kk7lw6M%mcdomi@free.fr>
Message-ID: <403A5660.5040203@act-net.com>

Hi, Dom,

> Is it possible  to get a *directory* of a web site, rather than the
> default "index.html" file?

That's not a function of the client (e.g. your application) but solely 
of the server. Sending a http-GET to a directory, not a specific file, 
has to be handled by the server. Most hosters forbid directory listings 
(naturally, due to security issues). Using Apache you can easily use 
"options +indexes" if you are allowed to use ".htaccess" files in the 
directory you would like to "browse".
But the result is not a "directory"! It is a single file (text) being 
generated by the webserver.

Listing directories via HTTP is not possible using the HTTP protocol 
itself. You would have to use some on-top-protocols like webDAV to get a 
directory handle from a non-specific http-"GET" command.

I hope this is of any help,
Marc Albrecht
A.C.T. / Level-2
Glinder Str. 2
27432 Ebersdorf
Deutschland
Tel. (+49) (0)4765-830060
Fax. (+49) (0)4765-830064

From jacque at hyperactivesw.com  Mon Feb 23 14:55:11 2004
From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay)
Date: Mon, 23 Feb 2004 13:55:11 -0600
Subject: RunRev Pricing
In-Reply-To: <403A2BB8.8080004@fourthworld.com>
References: <1g9m6lx.4sv94z18kxm46M%mcdomi@free.fr>
	<403A0B60.FFE4CBEA@Club-Internet.fr> <a05210604bc5fca0d60c0@[192.168.1.100]>
	<403A2BB8.8080004@fourthworld.com>
Message-ID: <403A5A9F.9040108@hyperactivesw.com>

On 2/23/04 10:35 AM, Richard Gaskin wrote:

> But as for getting going with Mac, I believe all Mac versions are 
> included in the Mac license, which would mean both OS X and the older 
> Classic.   I can't imagine RunRev would charge separately for the 
> defunct OS 9.

Actually, it's a separate license.

-- 
Jacqueline Landman Gay         |     jacque at hyperactivesw.com
HyperActive Software           |     http://www.hyperactivesw.com

From ambassador at fourthworld.com  Mon Feb 23 15:02:19 2004
From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin)
Date: Mon, 23 Feb 2004 12:02:19 -0800
Subject: save dialogue stuck
In-Reply-To: <403A4C20.6010003@hyperactivesw.com>
References: <200402230401.MAA21326@msr11.hinet.net>
	<40398C7D.5000908@hyperactivesw.com> <403A2D2C.6050806@fourthworld.com>
	<403A4C20.6010003@hyperactivesw.com>
Message-ID: <403A5C4B.9070600@fourthworld.com>

> On 2/23/04 10:41 AM, Richard Gaskin wrote:
> 
>>> Scott Raney used to recommend that stacks not go above
>>
>>
>>  > 3-5,000 cards or so before being moved to a more formal
>>  > database. That isn't a hard number, just a suggestion.
>>
>> That's predicated on the assumption that you're using a stack
 >> as a flat table.  If you use arrays or tab-delimited chunk
 >> in custom properties you can safely exceed that by many times;
> 
> 
> Can you do a search and/or find with that system? For imported
 > HC database stacks, that's usually the show stopper. If you
 > have a method for searching, I could sure use it myself. Do
 > you iterate through all the properties/text chunks? Is that
 > fast enough?

"Fast enough" is relative?  It's not nearly as fast as HyperCard's Find 
(what is?), but it's not bad.

FWIW, sequential traversal of tab-delimited text benchmarks about 15-20% 
faster than sequentially traversal of an array.  However if you need 
random access based on keys, arrays can be orders of magnitude faster 
for single lookups.

From revolution at jaedworks.com  Mon Feb 23 15:03:06 2004
From: revolution at jaedworks.com (Jeanne A. E. DeVoto)
Date: Mon, 23 Feb 2004 12:03:06 -0800
Subject: Custom props 201 hard question
In-Reply-To: <ENEALNOCJBOOOHHCCEKNCELFFNAA.b.xavier@internet.lu>
References: <ENEALNOCJBOOOHHCCEKNCELFFNAA.b.xavier@internet.lu>
Message-ID: <p06010292bc600cbdbb66@[10.0.1.8]>

At 7:29 PM +0100 2/23/2004, MisterX wrote:
The short answer:

>So how can I store an array into a custom property in a set?

You can't. You can store an array as a custom property set, but not 
as a custom property. So you can either make a custom property set 
for the array, or use the combine command to collapse the array into 
a string before storing it.
-- 
jeanne a. e. devoto ~ jaed at jaedworks.com
http://www.jaedworks.com

From mpetrides at earthlink.net  Mon Feb 23 15:11:10 2004
From: mpetrides at earthlink.net (Marian Petrides)
Date: Mon, 23 Feb 2004 15:11:10 -0500
Subject: RunRev Pricing
In-Reply-To: <403A5A9F.9040108@hyperactivesw.com>
References: <1g9m6lx.4sv94z18kxm46M%mcdomi@free.fr>
	<403A0B60.FFE4CBEA@Club-Internet.fr> <a05210604bc5fca0d60c0@[192.168.1.100]>
	<403A2BB8.8080004@fourthworld.com> <403A5A9F.9040108@hyperactivesw.com>
Message-ID: <6BE64664-663C-11D8-A2CD-000A959D005E@earthlink.net>

Why?

Win 95, 98, XP are all one license, right?    So why would OS 9 and OS 
X be separate?

I hate to get back into the pricing debate again, but once again the 
pricing model defies logic.  Most frustrating.  (And, no it's not 
relevant to me, I bought the whole magilla and glad I am thank you!)

M

On Feb 23, 2004, at 2:55 PM, J. Landman Gay wrote:

> On 2/23/04 10:35 AM, Richard Gaskin wrote:
>
>> But as for getting going with Mac, I believe all Mac versions are 
>> included in the Mac license, which would mean both OS X and the older 
>> Classic.   I can't imagine RunRev would charge separately for the 
>> defunct OS 9.
>
> Actually, it's a separate license.
>
> -- 
> Jacqueline Landman Gay         |     jacque at hyperactivesw.com
> HyperActive Software           |     http://www.hyperactivesw.com
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>


From ambassador at fourthworld.com  Mon Feb 23 15:12:03 2004
From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin)
Date: Mon, 23 Feb 2004 12:12:03 -0800
Subject: save dialogue stuck
In-Reply-To: <301A3207-662A-11D8-A8B8-000A95DA60FA@adelphia.net>
References: <200402230401.MAA21326@msr11.hinet.net>
	<40398C7D.5000908@hyperactivesw.com> <403A2D2C.6050806@fourthworld.com>
	<301A3207-662A-11D8-A8B8-000A95DA60FA@adelphia.net>
Message-ID: <403A5E93.3040907@fourthworld.com>

Tom wrote:

> On Feb 23, 2004, at 11:41 AM, Richard Gaskin wrote:
> 
>> > Scott Raney used to recommend that stacks not go above
>> > 3-5,000 cards or so before being moved to a more formal
>> > database. That isn't a hard number, just a suggestion.
>>
>> That's predicated on the assumption that you're using a 
 >> stack as a flat table.  If you use arrays or tab-delimited
 >> chunks in custom properties you can safely exceed that by
 >> many times; I've been working with a data set here of
 >> about 50,000 records in a simple list, and my WebMerge
 >> product processes exported databases as tab-delimited text
 >> quickly -- we have some customers processing 100,000
 >> records without a hitch.
>>
>> Of course, keep in mind it's all RAM-based so if your
 >> records are large you may get tight on memory.  But
 >> like the old Panaroma database product shows, RAM-based
 >> databases can be viable in many circumstances.
>
> I am working on an addition to Panorama at the moment and
 > before now had never heard of it. When I saw your reference
 > below I was floored.
> 
> Do you know anything else about Panorama?

Very little.

> I need to emulate a demo where it appears to interact
 > with Panorama. It does not actually have to but I need
 > it to look like it is.
> I was going to do this in Rev with screen shots of Panorama
 > mixed with Rev fields to show how our addition would work
 > if included.
> Are Pano and Rev related at all???

Only in as much as their data is RAM-based rather than paged from disk. 
  No other connection that I know of.

> I don't really have time to learn Pano to do the demo from within it.
> I saw the scripting in Pano and it looked different than Rev.
> what are your thoughts??

Why interact between the two?  If Panorama is no longer viable for the 
project it's being used on could it just be moved to Rev?

-- 
  Richard Gaskin
  Fourth World Media Corporation
  ___________________________________________________________
  Ambassador at FourthWorld.com       http://www.FourthWorld.com


From in.bois at wanadoo.fr  Mon Feb 23 15:16:23 2004
From: in.bois at wanadoo.fr (Alain Bois)
Date: Mon, 23 Feb 2004 21:16:23 +0100
Subject: RunRev Pricing
In-Reply-To: <6BE64664-663C-11D8-A2CD-000A959D005E@earthlink.net>
References: <1g9m6lx.4sv94z18kxm46M%mcdomi@free.fr>
	<403A0B60.FFE4CBEA@Club-Internet.fr> <a05210604bc5fca0d60c0@[192.168.1.100]>
	<403A2BB8.8080004@fourthworld.com> <403A5A9F.9040108@hyperactivesw.com>
	<6BE64664-663C-11D8-A2CD-000A959D005E@earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <267C659A-663D-11D8-9282-000A95AB7040@wanadoo.fr>

I'm OK
Alain

Le 23 f?vr. 04, ? 21:11, Marian Petrides a ?crit :

> Why?
>
> Win 95, 98, XP are all one license, right?    So why would OS 9 and OS 
> X be separate?
>
> I hate to get back into the pricing debate again, but once again the 
> pricing model defies logic.  Most frustrating.  (And, no it's not 
> relevant to me, I bought the whole magilla and glad I am thank you!)
>
> M
>
> On Feb 23, 2004, at 2:55 PM, J. Landman Gay wrote:
>
>> On 2/23/04 10:35 AM, Richard Gaskin wrote:
>>
>>> But as for getting going with Mac, I believe all Mac versions are 
>>> included in the Mac license, which would mean both OS X and the 
>>> older Classic.   I can't imagine RunRev would charge separately for 
>>> the defunct OS 9.
>>
>> Actually, it's a separate license.
>>
>> -- 
>> Jacqueline Landman Gay         |     jacque at hyperactivesw.com
>> HyperActive Software           |     http://www.hyperactivesw.com
>> _______________________________________________
>> use-revolution mailing list
>> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>>
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>


From mcdomi at free.fr  Mon Feb 23 15:30:01 2004
From: mcdomi at free.fr (Dom)
Date: Mon, 23 Feb 2004 21:30:01 +0100
Subject: put URL "the Address" and get a directory?
In-Reply-To: <403A5660.5040203@act-net.com>
Message-ID: <1g9mo18.gof1e0rrhkc5M%mcdomi@free.fr>

A.C.T. <albrecht at act-net.com> wrote:

> I hope this is of any help,

It was,
Thanks :-)

So, better to go with ftp (and password)...

-- 
Vous parlez fran?ais ? faites un tour sur le groupe francophone !
revolutionfr-subscribe at yahoogroupes.fr
Jetez un oeil sur RevoBlog <http://revoblog.free.fr> !

From in.bois at wanadoo.fr  Mon Feb 23 15:44:47 2004
From: in.bois at wanadoo.fr (Alain Bois)
Date: Mon, 23 Feb 2004 21:44:47 +0100
Subject: =?iso-8859-1?q?Pb_avec_l=27=E9diteur_de_scripts?=
Message-ID: <1E96B6B5-6641-11D8-9282-000A95AB7040@wanadoo.fr>

sous OS X Panther, j'ai un probl?me qd je sors de l'?diteur de script, 
le pointeur se met en bas de page et g?n?re une erreur de script Voir 
copie d'?cran ci-dessous.
Cette erreur n'appara?t pas avec Rev 2.0 mais avec Rev 2.2

From jacque at hyperactivesw.com  Mon Feb 23 16:43:56 2004
From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay)
Date: Mon, 23 Feb 2004 15:43:56 -0600
Subject: RunRev Pricing
In-Reply-To: <6BE64664-663C-11D8-A2CD-000A959D005E@earthlink.net>
References: <1g9m6lx.4sv94z18kxm46M%mcdomi@free.fr>
	<403A0B60.FFE4CBEA@Club-Internet.fr> <a05210604bc5fca0d60c0@[192.168.1.100]>
	<403A2BB8.8080004@fourthworld.com> <403A5A9F.9040108@hyperactivesw.com>
	<6BE64664-663C-11D8-A2CD-000A959D005E@earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <403A741C.3040304@hyperactivesw.com>

On 2/23/04 2:11 PM, Marian Petrides wrote:

> Why?
> 
> Win 95, 98, XP are all one license, right?    So why would OS 9 and OS X 
> be separate?

Probably because the Mac builds are two separate engines, which require 
different compiles and separate amounts of time and resources to put 
together. They really are different products and they need to be 
downloaded separately. Combined in the OS 9 engine are versions that 
work with both 68K and PPC versions of Mac OS; so for classic Mac you 
actually get dual duty.

The Windows product is a single unified engine, requiring only one build 
cycle, that works with all Win32 products. If it were possible to 
combine Classic Mac OS and OS X into a single engine, then the Mac 
engine would more closely approximate the Windows engine -- but this 
can't be done.

-- 
Jacqueline Landman Gay         |     jacque at hyperactivesw.com
HyperActive Software           |     http://www.hyperactivesw.com

From mpetrides at earthlink.net  Mon Feb 23 16:45:55 2004
From: mpetrides at earthlink.net (Marian Petrides)
Date: Mon, 23 Feb 2004 16:45:55 -0500
Subject: RunRev Pricing
In-Reply-To: <403A741C.3040304@hyperactivesw.com>
References: <1g9m6lx.4sv94z18kxm46M%mcdomi@free.fr>
	<403A0B60.FFE4CBEA@Club-Internet.fr> <a05210604bc5fca0d60c0@[192.168.1.100]>
	<403A2BB8.8080004@fourthworld.com> <403A5A9F.9040108@hyperactivesw.com>
	<6BE64664-663C-11D8-A2CD-000A959D005E@earthlink.net>
	<403A741C.3040304@hyperactivesw.com>
Message-ID: <A8D63E54-6649-11D8-A2CD-000A959D005E@earthlink.net>

Otay.  Makes sense. Thanks for clarifying.

M
On Feb 23, 2004, at 4:43 PM, J. Landman Gay wrote:

> On 2/23/04 2:11 PM, Marian Petrides wrote:
>
>> Why?
>> Win 95, 98, XP are all one license, right?    So why would OS 9 and 
>> OS X be separate?
>
> Probably because the Mac builds are two separate engines, which 
> require different compiles and separate amounts of time and resources 
> to put together. They really are different products and they need to 
> be downloaded separately. Combined in the OS 9 engine are versions 
> that work with both 68K and PPC versions of Mac OS; so for classic Mac 
> you actually get dual duty.
>
> The Windows product is a single unified engine, requiring only one 
> build cycle, that works with all Win32 products. If it were possible 
> to combine Classic Mac OS and OS X into a single engine, then the Mac 
> engine would more closely approximate the Windows engine -- but this 
> can't be done.
>
> -- 
> Jacqueline Landman Gay         |     jacque at hyperactivesw.com
> HyperActive Software           |     http://www.hyperactivesw.com
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>


From nnoydb at excite.com  Mon Feb 23 17:57:15 2004
From: nnoydb at excite.com (Kevin)
Date: Mon, 23 Feb 2004 17:57:15 -0500 (EST)
Subject: start using & External symbol table PLEASE!!!
Message-ID: <20040223225715.55170299D5@xprdmailfe22.nwk.excite.com>


Are there any constructs like start using that will accept a path.

Example:

start using "../common/myutilities" 

1) I do not wish to copy this to the local directory.
   (The one right place concept)

Has anyone attempted to create a external symbol table?

Kevin



-==-=-=-=-=-=-==-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-==-=-=-=-=-=-
Disclaimer:

Any resemblance between the above views and those of my
employer, my terminal, or the view out my window are purely
coincidental. 
Any resemblance between the above and my own views is non-deterministic.

 The question of the existence of views in the absence of anyone to hold
them
is left as an exercise for the reader. The question of the existence of
the reader
 is left as an exercise for the second god coefficient. 
(A discussion of non-orthogonal, non-integral polytheism is beyond the
scope of this article.)



_______________________________________________
Join Excite! - http://www.excite.com
The most personalized portal on the Web!

From 3mcgrath at adelphia.net  Mon Feb 23 18:02:30 2004
From: 3mcgrath at adelphia.net (Thomas McGrath III)
Date: Mon, 23 Feb 2004 18:02:30 -0500
Subject: save dialogue stuck
In-Reply-To: <403A5E93.3040907@fourthworld.com>
References: <200402230401.MAA21326@msr11.hinet.net>
	<40398C7D.5000908@hyperactivesw.com> <403A2D2C.6050806@fourthworld.com>
	<301A3207-662A-11D8-A8B8-000A95DA60FA@adelphia.net>
	<403A5E93.3040907@fourthworld.com>
Message-ID: <5B9DDA96-6654-11D8-A8B8-000A95DA60FA@adelphia.net>

Alas, That is not in the scope of the project I am doing for them. They 
actually 'Love' Panorama and talk about the speed and functionality a 
lot. They are not DB experts but rather are very familiar with their 
company needs and have adapted Panorama to meet those needs. They have 
come out as the company heros and Panorama is brought along for the 
ride.

My part is to show how my companies patented iconic system can increase 
productivity for the users of Panorama in their company. So I need to 
show how our icons can work or should work in their environment. 
Usually this has been done in powerpoint then moved up to Director. I 
want to do it in Rev. Fast 'fake' prototyping but with the addition of 
'real' code that can be reused for other demos and cross platform to 
boot.

This would do away with the need for our Director 'expert' and put the 
project more completely under my control. I design the features and 
functionality of the GUI and the marriage of all the patented 
technology into different situations and technologies.

Thanks,
Tom

On Feb 23, 2004, at 3:12 PM, Richard Gaskin wrote:
>> I don't really have time to learn Pano to do the demo from within it.
>> I saw the scripting in Pano and it looked different than Rev.
>> what are your thoughts??
>
> Why interact between the two?  If Panorama is no longer viable for the 
> project it's being used on could it just be moved to Rev?
>
> -- 
>  Richard Gaskin
>  Fourth World Media Corporation
>  ___________________________________________________________
>  Ambassador at FourthWorld.com       http://www.FourthWorld.com
Thomas J. McGrath III
SCS
1000 Killarney Dr.
Pittsburgh, PA 15234
412-885-8541


From 3mcgrath at adelphia.net  Mon Feb 23 18:05:06 2004
From: 3mcgrath at adelphia.net (Thomas McGrath III)
Date: Mon, 23 Feb 2004 18:05:06 -0500
Subject: =?iso-8859-1?q?Re=3A_Pb_avec_l=27=E9diteur_de_scripts?=
In-Reply-To: <1E96B6B5-6641-11D8-9282-000A95AB7040@wanadoo.fr>
References: <1E96B6B5-6641-11D8-9282-000A95AB7040@wanadoo.fr>
Message-ID: <B82301D2-6654-11D8-A8B8-000A95DA60FA@adelphia.net>

Ujava nedadde umventoupe devous gefigable excifibet de feragible.

Tom

On Feb 23, 2004, at 3:44 PM, Alain Bois wrote:

> sous OS X Panther, j'ai un probl?me qd je sors de l'?diteur de script, 
> le pointeur se met en bas de page et g?n?re une erreur de script Voir 
> copie d'?cran ci-dessous.
> Cette erreur n'appara?t pas avec Rev 2.0 mais avec Rev 2.2
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>

Thomas J. McGrath III
SCS
1000 Killarney Dr.
Pittsburgh, PA 15234
412-885-8541


From kray at sonsothunder.com  Mon Feb 23 18:16:14 2004
From: kray at sonsothunder.com (Ken Ray)
Date: Mon, 23 Feb 2004 17:16:14 -0600
Subject: =?iso-8859-1?q?RE=3A_Pb_avec_l=27=E9diteur_de_scripts?=
In-Reply-To: <B82301D2-6654-11D8-A8B8-000A95DA60FA@adelphia.net>
Message-ID: <008201c3fa63$0a91f5f0$6601a8c0@LightningFlash>

> Ujava nedadde umventoupe devous gefigable excifibet de feragible.

Tom, what language was *that*? I certainly wasn't French...

Ken Ray
Sons of Thunder Software
Email: kray at sonsothunder.com
Web Site: http://www.sonsothunder.com/ 



From sarahr at genesearch.com.au  Mon Feb 23 18:17:41 2004
From: sarahr at genesearch.com.au (Sarah Reichelt)
Date: Tue, 24 Feb 2004 09:17:41 +1000
Subject: Making a 'droplet' application?
In-Reply-To: <07753576-65E3-11D8-A349-000A9580FCCE@backtalk.com>
References: <07753576-65E3-11D8-A349-000A9580FCCE@backtalk.com>
Message-ID: <7A7FE224-6656-11D8-BAB5-0003937A97B8@genesearch.com.au>

>> You will need to set up an AppleEvent handler in your stack script 
>> that
>> recognises when a document is dropped on it, gets the name of the
>> document(s) and processes them. You may also need to set up a defined
>> file type. I think there have been discussions about this on the list
>> in the past, so search the archives as well as checking the docs for
>> AppleEvent.
>>
>
> Do you know how to make this work on a Windows machine?
>
No I don't, but setting file associations i.e. linking a file extension 
to your app (presumably with a registry setting) would probably do it. 
You'll have to get a Windows expert to help you on that one.

Sarah


From kray at sonsothunder.com  Mon Feb 23 18:18:50 2004
From: kray at sonsothunder.com (Ken Ray)
Date: Mon, 23 Feb 2004 17:18:50 -0600
Subject: =?iso-8859-1?q?RE=3A_Pb_avec_l=27=E9diteur_de_scripts?=
In-Reply-To: <1E96B6B5-6641-11D8-9282-000A95AB7040@wanadoo.fr>
Message-ID: <008501c3fa63$77c96720$6601a8c0@LightningFlash>

Alain,

Quelle erreur obtenez-vous ?

(je ne parle pas fran?ais tr?s bien et n'ai pas utilis? un
traducteur d'encha?nement pour ceci.)

Ken Ray
Sons of Thunder Software
Email: kray at sonsothunder.com
Web Site: http://www.sonsothunder.com/ 

> -----Original Message-----
> From: use-revolution-bounces at lists.runrev.com 
> [mailto:use-revolution-bounces at lists.runrev.com] On Behalf Of 
> Alain Bois
> Sent: Monday, February 23, 2004 2:45 PM
> To: How to use Revolution
> Subject: Pb avec l'?diteur de scripts
> 
> 
> sous OS X Panther, j'ai un probl?me qd je sors de l'?diteur 
> de script, 
> le pointeur se met en bas de page et g?n?re une erreur de script Voir 
> copie d'?cran ci-dessous.
> Cette erreur n'appara?t pas avec Rev 2.0 mais avec Rev 2.2
> 



From n.thieberger at linguistics.unimelb.edu.au  Mon Feb 23 18:20:46 2004
From: n.thieberger at linguistics.unimelb.edu.au (n.thieberger at linguistics.unimelb.edu.au)
Date: Tue, 24 Feb 2004 10:20:46 +1100
Subject: concordance of RR stack
In-Reply-To: <20040223152403.5253793005B@mail.runrev.com>
References: <20040223152403.5253793005B@mail.runrev.com>
Message-ID: <p0601020bbc6038d0de27@[128.250.86.175]>

Dear Runrevers

In the 1980s Mark Zimmerman made a concordance tool called FreeText 
(http://www.his.com/~z/c/index.html) available to the HyperCard 
community. There were two versions, one that built a  concordance of 
any text file, and another that built a concordance of a HyperCard 
stack's fields. He has made the source code, in C, available on his 
website.

I am writing to ask if anyone has built, or is interested  in 
buidling, a concordance tool for RR. I have a tool (called Audiamus) 
built in RR that links a set of transcripts to their media at the 
sentence level. I would very much like to have a concordance of the 
transcripts, but have no idea how to create a concordance that works 
as  quickly and neatly as FreeText did.

Any suggestions welcome!

thankss

Nick Thieberger


Project Manager
PARADISEC
Pacific And Regional Archive for DIgital Sources in Endangered Cultures
http://paradisec.org.au


nicholas.thieberger at paradisec.org.au
Department of Linguistics and Applied Linguistics
University of Melbourne
Vic 3010
Australia

Ph 61 (0)3 8344 5185

From doug at webcrossing.com  Mon Feb 23 18:21:33 2004
From: doug at webcrossing.com (Doug Lerner)
Date: Tue, 24 Feb 2004 08:21:33 +0900
Subject: RunRev Pricing
In-Reply-To: <6BE64664-663C-11D8-A2CD-000A959D005E@earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <BC60BA0D.27EBF%doug@webcrossing.com>

Mac OS 9 and Mac OS X are completely different systems. OS X is Unix, in
fact.

doug

On 2/24/04 5:11 AM, "Marian Petrides" <mpetrides at earthlink.net> wrote:

> Why?
> 
> Win 95, 98, XP are all one license, right?    So why would OS 9 and OS
> X be separate?
> 
> I hate to get back into the pricing debate again, but once again the
> pricing model defies logic.  Most frustrating.  (And, no it's not
> relevant to me, I bought the whole magilla and glad I am thank you!)
> 
> M
> 
> On Feb 23, 2004, at 2:55 PM, J. Landman Gay wrote:
> 
>> On 2/23/04 10:35 AM, Richard Gaskin wrote:
>> 
>>> But as for getting going with Mac, I believe all Mac versions are
>>> included in the Mac license, which would mean both OS X and the older
>>> Classic.   I can't imagine RunRev would charge separately for the
>>> defunct OS 9.
>> 
>> Actually, it's a separate license.
>> 
>> --
>> Jacqueline Landman Gay         |     jacque at hyperactivesw.com
>> HyperActive Software           |     http://www.hyperactivesw.com
>> _______________________________________________
>> use-revolution mailing list
>> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution


From dsc at swcp.com  Mon Feb 23 18:23:38 2004
From: dsc at swcp.com (Dar Scott)
Date: Mon, 23 Feb 2004 16:23:38 -0700
Subject: start using & External symbol table PLEASE!!!
In-Reply-To: <20040223225715.55170299D5@xprdmailfe22.nwk.excite.com>
Message-ID: <4F3C97BD-6657-11D8-AABF-000A9567A3E6@swcp.com>


On Monday, February 23, 2004, at 03:57 PM, Kevin wrote:

> Are there any constructs like start using that will accept a path.
>
> Example:
>
> start using "../common/myutilities"
>
> 1) I do not wish to copy this to the local directory.
>    (The one right place concept)
>
> Has anyone attempted to create a external symbol table?

You might want to consider the stackFiles property.  It works relative 
to the location of the stack.  It applies to 'start using' as well as 
other uses.

Dar Scott


From kray at sonsothunder.com  Mon Feb 23 18:23:19 2004
From: kray at sonsothunder.com (Ken Ray)
Date: Mon, 23 Feb 2004 17:23:19 -0600
Subject: start using & External symbol table PLEASE!!!
In-Reply-To: <20040223225715.55170299D5@xprdmailfe22.nwk.excite.com>
Message-ID: <008701c3fa64$09721190$6601a8c0@LightningFlash>


> Are there any constructs like start using that will accept a path.
> 
> Example:
> 
> start using "../common/myutilities" 

Absolutely... in fact, I have a subdirectory of my application called
"Libraries" and I use the equivalent of:

  start using "libraries/libUtilities.rev"

I'm sure the "../" will work to navigate directories, but you'll need
the file extension to match the name of your file you're using as a
library (i.e. if the file name is "myutilities.rev" you'll need to say
"../common/myutilities.rev").

Ken Ray
Sons of Thunder Software
Email: kray at sonsothunder.com
Web Site: http://www.sonsothunder.com/ 



From sarahr at genesearch.com.au  Mon Feb 23 18:31:00 2004
From: sarahr at genesearch.com.au (Sarah Reichelt)
Date: Tue, 24 Feb 2004 09:31:00 +1000
Subject: =?iso-8859-1?q?Re=3A_Pb_avec_l=27=E9diteur_de_scripts?=
In-Reply-To: <1E96B6B5-6641-11D8-9282-000A95AB7040@wanadoo.fr>
References: <1E96B6B5-6641-11D8-9282-000A95AB7040@wanadoo.fr>
Message-ID: <56B0544F-6658-11D8-BAB5-0003937A97B8@genesearch.com.au>

Hi Alain,
I won't attempt to answer in my very rusty French, but if the problem 
is what I think, there is probably an error in the script that stops it 
compiling when you close the script editor window. Sometimes this gives 
an error message and sometimes it doesn't - the script just won't work. 
The problem with lots of empty lines being added to the bottom of a 
script seems related to this. Try commenting out bits of your script 
until it works OK, then adding them back gradually until you find a 
line that causes problems.

Cheers,
Sarah

On 24 Feb 2004, at 6:46 am, Alain Bois wrote:

> sous OS X Panther, j'ai un probl?me qd je sors de l'?diteur de script, 
> le pointeur se met en bas de page et g?n?re une erreur de script Voir 
> copie d'?cran ci-dessous.
> Cette erreur n'appara?t pas avec Rev 2.0 mais avec Rev 2.2
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution


From davis.phil at comcast.net  Mon Feb 23 19:07:51 2004
From: davis.phil at comcast.net (Phil Davis)
Date: Mon, 23 Feb 2004 16:07:51 -0800
Subject: revSpeak and Windows XP
References: <web-314890294@mail.maclaunch.com>
	<6.0.1.1.2.20040223090347.01ddb6d0@SLG_PDC>
Message-ID: <001301c3fa6a$3f0586b0$9d7ba8c0@RON7XP>

You can download the older speech engine from Microsoft, install it on your
PC, and *boom* you got revSpeech!

The link (from the Mozilla description of Rev bug #317):
  http://www.microsoft.com/speech/download/old/sdk40a.asp

I couldn't get the smallest of the 3 downloads listed to make Win revSpeak
work.

Phil Davis



----- Original Message -----
From: "Peter T. Evensen" <pevensen at siboneylg.com>
To: "How to use Revolution" <use-revolution at lists.runrev.com>
Sent: Monday, February 23, 2004 7:04 AM
Subject: Re: revSpeak and Windows XP


> There is a note in the release document that the speech library doesn't
> work with the latest version that comes with XP.  You need to go back to a
> previous version of the Microsoft speech tool kit.... I'm not sure how one
> does that, but it is a know bug.
>
> At 02:59 AM 2/23/2004, you wrote:
> >Dear RunRev Afficionados,
> >    I put together a rather sophisticated stack yesterday:
> >I card with one button containing the script:
> >
> >on mouseDown
> >    revSpeak "Hello"
> >end mouseDown
> >
> >on my jolly Mac G4 when I clicked on the button the very
> >silly 'Dalek' speech synthesizer said 'Hello' - as one
> >would expect!!
> >
> >moved the stack into my Virtual PC running Windows XP and
> >featuring an equally silly Dalek called "Microsoft Sam"
> >
> >clicked button - NIX!
> >
> >bright ideas all gratefully recieved!
> >
> >Richmond Mathewson
> >__________________________________________________
> >See Mathewson's software at:
> >
> >http://members.maclaunch.com/richmond/default.html    and
> >http://www.runrev.com/Revolution1/developercentral/usercontributions.html
> >_______________________________________
> >---------------------------------------------------------------
> >Great Macintosh Products
> >  The MacLaunch Store!
http://www.maclaunch.com/cgi-launch/store/agora.cgi
> >---------------------------------------------------------------
> >_______________________________________________
> >use-revolution mailing list
> >use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> >http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>
> Peter T. Evensen
> http://www.PetersRoadToHealth.com
> 24-hour recorded info hotline: 1-800-624-7671
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution


From 3mcgrath at adelphia.net  Mon Feb 23 19:21:07 2004
From: 3mcgrath at adelphia.net (Thomas McGrath III)
Date: Mon, 23 Feb 2004 19:21:07 -0500
Subject: =?iso-8859-1?q?Re=3A_Pb_avec_l=27=E9diteur_de_scripts?=
In-Reply-To: <008201c3fa63$0a91f5f0$6601a8c0@LightningFlash>
References: <008201c3fa63$0a91f5f0$6601a8c0@LightningFlash>
Message-ID: <572F41D2-665F-11D8-A8B8-000A95DA60FA@adelphia.net>

Ken,

That was my interpretation of the original text:
> On Feb 23, 2004, at 3:44 PM, Alain Bois wrote:
> sous OS X Panther, j'ai un probl?me qd je sors de l'?diteur de script, 
> le pointeur se met en bas de page et g?n?re une erreur de script Voir 
> copie d'?cran ci-dessous.
> Cette erreur n'appara?t pas avec Rev 2.0 mais avec Rev 2.2

It was all 'Greek' to me!!! But then it might have been 'French'.

I'm sorry, I was confused.

Tom - going back into my hole.....

On Feb 23, 2004, at 6:16 PM, Ken Ray wrote:

>> Ujava nedadde umventoupe devous gefigable excifibet de feragible.
>
> Tom, what language was *that*? I certainly wasn't French...
>
> Ken Ray
> Sons of Thunder Software
> Email: kray at sonsothunder.com
> Web Site: http://www.sonsothunder.com/
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>
>

Thomas J. McGrath III
SCS
1000 Killarney Dr.
Pittsburgh, PA 15234
412-885-8541


From dsc at swcp.com  Mon Feb 23 19:40:05 2004
From: dsc at swcp.com (Dar Scott)
Date: Mon, 23 Feb 2004 17:40:05 -0700
Subject: Making a 'droplet' application?
In-Reply-To: <7A7FE224-6656-11D8-BAB5-0003937A97B8@genesearch.com.au>
Message-ID: <FD6BA471-6661-11D8-AABF-000A9567A3E6@swcp.com>


On Monday, February 23, 2004, at 04:17 PM, Sarah Reichelt wrote:

>> Do you know how to make this work on a Windows machine?
>>
> No I don't, but setting file associations i.e. linking a file 
> extension to your app (presumably with a registry setting) would 
> probably do it. You'll have to get a Windows expert to help you on 
> that one.

I have such a poor memory and I spread myself so thin, I'm no expert.  
I will say, I think this runs this with the command-line arg as the 
path of the file that was dropped.  If the path has no spaces, you can 
get it with $1.

(Unfortunately, this does not work exactly as expected, for example, as 
on OS X.  Well, it didn't the last I checked.  I called it a bug and 
RunRev said it is not.  I don't have a workaround.  I only use this in 
those cases where spaces and quotes are not a problem.)

Dar Scott


From mwieder at ahsoftware.net  Mon Feb 23 19:49:26 2004
From: mwieder at ahsoftware.net (Mark Wieder)
Date: Mon, 23 Feb 2004 16:49:26 -0800
Subject: self-deleting stacks
Message-ID: <1603642227.20040223164926@ahsoftware.net>

All-

I've got a mysterious problem here.

On my windows 2000 machine (rev 2.1.2) if I edit and save a stack the
stack gets deleted from my hard drive. More mysteriously, if I then
save the stack again it reappears on the hard drive, but in DOS 8.3
filename style. Luckily I noticed this in time and haven't lost any
data, but it's consistent now.

Anyone have a clue as to what's going on? Has something gotten tweaked
in an IDE property somewhere? Meanwhile I'm going back to editing on a
Mac, where my stacks don't disappear out from under me.

-- 
-Mark
 mwieder at ahsoftware.net


From dsc at swcp.com  Mon Feb 23 20:00:25 2004
From: dsc at swcp.com (Dar Scott)
Date: Mon, 23 Feb 2004 18:00:25 -0700
Subject: XP Embedded and Revolution
Message-ID: <D4B967ED-6664-11D8-AABF-000A9567A3E6@swcp.com>

Tuesday morning I will attend a presentation on Windows XP Embedded.

Has anybody run command-line Revolution on XP Embedded?  Any idea 
whether that might work?

How about a regular gui standalone?

Dar Scott


From in.bois at wanadoo.fr  Mon Feb 23 20:23:03 2004
From: in.bois at wanadoo.fr (Alain Bois)
Date: Tue, 24 Feb 2004 02:23:03 +0100
Subject: =?iso-8859-1?q?Re=3A_Pb_avec_l=27=E9diteur_de_scripts?=
In-Reply-To: <56B0544F-6658-11D8-BAB5-0003937A97B8@genesearch.com.au>
References: <1E96B6B5-6641-11D8-9282-000A95AB7040@wanadoo.fr>
	<56B0544F-6658-11D8-BAB5-0003937A97B8@genesearch.com.au>
Message-ID: <FE18D850-6667-11D8-A9DD-000A95AB7040@wanadoo.fr>

Thanks, I have found a solution: "Suspend development tools" and after 
no problems. Where I find explanation of how to use that?
Cheers.
Alain

Le 24 f?vr. 04, ? 00:31, Sarah Reichelt a ?crit :

> Hi Alain,
> I won't attempt to answer in my very rusty French, but if the problem 
> is what I think, there is probably an error in the script that stops 
> it compiling when you close the script editor window. Sometimes this 
> gives an error message and sometimes it doesn't - the script just 
> won't work. The problem with lots of empty lines being added to the 
> bottom of a script seems related to this. Try commenting out bits of 
> your script until it works OK, then adding them back gradually until 
> you find a line that causes problems.
>
> Cheers,
> Sarah
>
> On 24 Feb 2004, at 6:46 am, Alain Bois wrote:
>
>> sous OS X Panther, j'ai un probl?me qd je sors de l'?diteur de 
>> script, le pointeur se met en bas de page et g?n?re une erreur de 
>> script Voir copie d'?cran ci-dessous.
>> Cette erreur n'appara?t pas avec Rev 2.0 mais avec Rev 2.2
>> _______________________________________________
>> use-revolution mailing list
>> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>


From geor9230 at saintmarys.edu  Mon Feb 23 20:49:59 2004
From: geor9230 at saintmarys.edu (geor9230 at saintmarys.edu)
Date: Mon, 23 Feb 2004 20:49:59 -0500
Subject: If / Then Statements (Andrea George)
Message-ID: <eec15f0942.f0942eec15@saintmarys.edu>

I am a beginner user of Revolution and so I have several questions, but I'll start with only one right now....

I am currently trying to convert several Hypercard Stacks to Revolution Stacks...  A few errors that repeatedly appear are ones stating that the If statement is missing a Then Statement.

I do not see the IF statement in the script anywhere.. is it possible it is in another stack?  How do I know where to locate the stack?  I am not an experienced Revoluion programmer although I am familiar with coding (experience with Java, C++, COBOL, etc)...so I am having a difficult time understanding a few errors.

If someone could please explain to me what it is that I need to do in non-technical terms that would be great.  And maybe offer the full coding  that might be needed that would be awesome too.  Thank you for your time and help.


From dsc at swcp.com  Mon Feb 23 20:58:02 2004
From: dsc at swcp.com (Dar Scott)
Date: Mon, 23 Feb 2004 18:58:02 -0700
Subject: =?iso-8859-1?q?Re=3A_Pb_avec_l=27=E9diteur_de_scripts?=
In-Reply-To: <FE18D850-6667-11D8-A9DD-000A95AB7040@wanadoo.fr>
Message-ID: <E0D283C0-666C-11D8-AABF-000A9567A3E6@swcp.com>


On Monday, February 23, 2004, at 06:23 PM, Alain Bois wrote:

> Thanks, I have found a solution: "Suspend development tools" and after 
> no problems. Where I find explanation of how to use that?

 From the "Help" menu, choose "Search Documentation...".

In the "Search for:" field enter "Suspend Development".  Click Search.

Four articles or notes are listed.

Dar Scott


From in.bois at wanadoo.fr  Mon Feb 23 21:02:35 2004
From: in.bois at wanadoo.fr (Alain Bois)
Date: Tue, 24 Feb 2004 03:02:35 +0100
Subject: =?iso-8859-1?q?Re=3A_Pb_avec_l=27=E9diteur_de_scripts?=
In-Reply-To: <E0D283C0-666C-11D8-AABF-000A9567A3E6@swcp.com>
References: <E0D283C0-666C-11D8-AABF-000A9567A3E6@swcp.com>
Message-ID: <83F2A929-666D-11D8-A9DD-000A95AB7040@wanadoo.fr>

Thanks
Alain
Le 24 f?vr. 04, ? 02:58, Dar Scott a ?crit :

>
> On Monday, February 23, 2004, at 06:23 PM, Alain Bois wrote:
>
>> Thanks, I have found a solution: "Suspend development tools" and 
>> after no problems. Where I find explanation of how to use that?
>
> From the "Help" menu, choose "Search Documentation...".
>
> In the "Search for:" field enter "Suspend Development".  Click Search.
>
> Four articles or notes are listed.
>
> Dar Scott
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>


From jacque at hyperactivesw.com  Mon Feb 23 21:05:34 2004
From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay)
Date: Mon, 23 Feb 2004 20:05:34 -0600
Subject: concordance of RR stack
In-Reply-To: <p0601020bbc6038d0de27@[128.250.86.175]>
References: <20040223152403.5253793005B@mail.runrev.com>
	<p0601020bbc6038d0de27@[128.250.86.175]>
Message-ID: <403AB16E.5080904@hyperactivesw.com>

On 2/23/04 5:20 PM, n.thieberger at linguistics.unimelb.edu.au wrote:

> I am writing to ask if anyone has built, or is interested  in buidling, 
> a concordance tool for RR. I have a tool (called Audiamus) built in RR 
> that links a set of transcripts to their media at the sentence level. I 
> would very much like to have a concordance of the transcripts, but have 
> no idea how to create a concordance that works as  quickly and neatly as 
> FreeText did.

There is a script offered in the MetaCard IDE that does part of what I 
think you want, and is very fast. A little modification and you'd be set.

on mouseUp
   put empty into field "result"
   answer file "Select a text file for input:"
   if it is empty then exit mouseUp
# let user know we're working on it
   set the cursor to watch
   put it into inputFile
   open file inputFile for read
   read from file inputFile until eof
   put it into fileContent
   close file inputFile
# wordCount is an associative array, its indexes are words
# with the contents of each element being number of times
# that word appears
   repeat for each word w in fileContent
     add 1 to wordCount[w]
   end repeat
# copy all the indexes that is in the wordCount associative array
   put keys(wordCount) into keyWords
# sort the indexes -- keyWords contains a list of elements in array
   sort keyWords
   repeat for each line l in keyWords
     put l & tab & wordCount[l] & return after displayResult
   end repeat
   put displayResult into field "result"
end mouseUp


Instead of adding 1 to each instance of the word, you could collect a 
word count reference or whatever data you want, and collect that info in 
the array. In the repeat loop, use something like this:

  put 0 into theWordNum
  repeat for each word w in fileContent
     add 1 to theWordNum
     put comma & theWordNum after wordCount[w]
  end repeat

This would give you a list of words containing a comma-delimited list of 
numerical references for each word.


-- 
Jacqueline Landman Gay         |     jacque at hyperactivesw.com
HyperActive Software           |     http://www.hyperactivesw.com

From hershbp at realtorsgroup.us  Mon Feb 23 21:15:35 2004
From: hershbp at realtorsgroup.us (hershrev)
Date: Mon, 23 Feb 2004 21:15:35 -0500
Subject: closeField
Message-ID: <5465471A-666F-11D8-BBFB-0030654C1E62@realtorsgroup.us>

	Hello every one I have an interesting situation, I have a few fields 
dups. from one another (different names)
I have an " on closeField " message in my card and not all respond to 
the message ?
Thanks hershrev.


From 3mcgrath at adelphia.net  Mon Feb 23 21:28:33 2004
From: 3mcgrath at adelphia.net (Thomas McGrath III)
Date: Mon, 23 Feb 2004 21:28:33 -0500
Subject: disabled buttons
Message-ID: <24459EFC-6671-11D8-A8B8-000A95DA60FA@adelphia.net>

Hello,

Does anyone know what messages a disabled button does receive?

Macintosh PowerBook G-4 OSX 10.3.1, OS 9.2.2, 1.25 GHz, 512MB RAM, Rev 
2.1.2


Advanced Media Group
Thomas J McGrath III	? 2003 ?	3mcgrath at adelphia.net
220 Drake Road, Bethel Park, PA 15102



From hershbp at realtorsgroup.us  Mon Feb 23 21:50:04 2004
From: hershbp at realtorsgroup.us (hershrev)
Date: Mon, 23 Feb 2004 21:50:04 -0500
Subject: adjusting cells in table field
Message-ID: <26149A34-6674-11D8-BBFB-0030654C1E62@realtorsgroup.us>

Hi , is there a way adjusting cells in a table field to different 
widths ?
Thanks hershrev


From capellan2000 at yahoo.com  Mon Feb 23 21:58:46 2004
From: capellan2000 at yahoo.com (Alejandro Tejada)
Date: Mon, 23 Feb 2004 18:58:46 -0800 (PST)
Subject: put URL "the Address" and get a directory?
In-Reply-To: <20040223203107.31DBE930088@mail.runrev.com>
Message-ID: <20040224025846.23792.qmail@web40501.mail.yahoo.com>

on Mon, 23 Feb 2004 21:30:01 +0100
domi wrote:

> So, better to go with ftp (and password)...

Notice Domi,
the recent beta of libUrl lets you to upload
files to a server. I've success using this
new version with php and perl cgi scripts
to upload files to servers.
Contact Dave Cragg about it. 

The perl cgi script: "upload lite"
from PerlScriptsJavaScripts.com returns a
list of files in the upload folder.
Contact them for details and instructions.
i think that they have a free demo in their website.

Remember too, that you could use Chipp's
altbrowser dll to present your windows users 
with a form to upload files or fill data.

al

=====
Visit my site:
http://www.geocities.com/capellan2000/
Search the mail list:
http://mindlube.com/cgi-bin/search-use-rev.cgi

__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Mail SpamGuard - Read only the mail you want.
http://antispam.yahoo.com/tools

From sarahr at genesearch.com.au  Mon Feb 23 22:05:30 2004
From: sarahr at genesearch.com.au (Sarah Reichelt)
Date: Tue, 24 Feb 2004 13:05:30 +1000
Subject: closeField
In-Reply-To: <5465471A-666F-11D8-BBFB-0030654C1E62@realtorsgroup.us>
References: <5465471A-666F-11D8-BBFB-0030654C1E62@realtorsgroup.us>
Message-ID: <4DDFAC53-6676-11D8-BAB5-0003937A97B8@genesearch.com.au>

closeField only gets sent when the contents of the field have changed. 
exitField gets sent whenever the focus leaves a field even if it hasn't 
changed. That may be your problem, or if you have a closeField handler 
in a field or group, it may be intercepting the card's message.

Cheers,
Sarah

On 24 Feb 2004, at 12:15 pm, hershrev wrote:

> 	Hello every one I have an interesting situation, I have a few fields 
> dups. from one another (different names)
> I have an " on closeField " message in my card and not all respond to 
> the message ?
> Thanks hershrev.
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>
>
>


From sarahr at genesearch.com.au  Mon Feb 23 22:06:53 2004
From: sarahr at genesearch.com.au (Sarah Reichelt)
Date: Tue, 24 Feb 2004 13:06:53 +1000
Subject: adjusting cells in table field
In-Reply-To: <26149A34-6674-11D8-BBFB-0030654C1E62@realtorsgroup.us>
References: <26149A34-6674-11D8-BBFB-0030654C1E62@realtorsgroup.us>
Message-ID: <7F269F8A-6676-11D8-BAB5-0003937A97B8@genesearch.com.au>

Set the tabStops. An easy way to do this visually is using Rinaldi's 
TabRuler plugin, available in the Revolution section of his site at 
http://www.xcmdfactory.com/

Sarah

On 24 Feb 2004, at 12:52 pm, hershrev wrote:

> Hi , is there a way adjusting cells in a table field to different 
> widths ?
> Thanks hershrev
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>
>
>


From 3mcgrath at adelphia.net  Mon Feb 23 22:22:34 2004
From: 3mcgrath at adelphia.net (Thomas McGrath III)
Date: Mon, 23 Feb 2004 22:22:34 -0500
Subject: Choices, Choices, Choices
Message-ID: <B03BB846-6678-11D8-A8B8-000A95DA60FA@adelphia.net>

Hello to all,

I am starting a new project and have to decide the best way to store a 
lot of info for my button states and actions.
right now I need to decide which is the best way to proceed???

I have hundreds of buttons. In groups of about 130 each.
Each button has three states: Available to hit, Not-available to hit 
and mouseDown once hit.
I need to set the available/not-available state depending on the other 
buttons. MouseDown is just for feedback that an available button is 
pushed.
I need to store the available buttons in groups of two, three or four.
I need to store a name for which group the button is now available.
I need to store a phrase that hitting the button will get.
I need to store which main group the button is in.

My Decision is between arrays (which I am new to understanding), Custom 
Properties (which seem complicated for this) and Simple storage 
containers from delimited text files (which I am used to). Any Help 
deciding??????

Sample data in group1 line 1:
House,rainbow,car,food,Let's go out for fast food,Home Things,Going 
Out,Driving,Fast Food, 128 Icon Group

button1, button2 ,button3, button4, thephrase, name1, name2, name3, 
name4, groupname1
button1, button2 ,button3, button4, thephrase, name1, name2, name3, 
name4, groupname1
etc.
etc.

and in group2 line1:

button1, button2 ,button3, button4, thephrase, name1, name2, name3, 
name4, groupname2
etc.

I use the groupname to find out which set of button to make available 
as a whole.

What I do with this is :get all button1's and make them highlighted.
	Also, on mouseWithin I display the Name1's of the available buttons 
one at a time when over that button.
Then after hitting one of them I get all button twos that have the 
first hit button in the button1 place and make available the button2's.
	Also, on mouseWithin I display the Name2 of the available buttons
Then after hitting one of them I get all button threes that have the 
same second button and the same first button and make all of the 
available third button's available for hitting.
	Also, on mouseWithin I display the Name3 (which is similar to the 
thephrase)
If there is a button4 then I do the same if not then:
Then when the third button is hit the phrase is displayed. And all 
buttons go back to the first state.
Or if there is no button3 then:
Thephrase is displayed and all buttons go back to the first state.

I am using this list every time a button is hit and also based upon 
other environment message etc. So it needs to be fast.


Macintosh PowerBook G-4 OSX 10.3.1, OS 9.2.2, 1.25 GHz, 512MB RAM, Rev 
2.1.2


Advanced Media Group
Thomas J McGrath III	? 2003 ?	3mcgrath at adelphia.net
220 Drake Road, Bethel Park, PA 15102



From psahores at easynet.fr  Tue Feb 24 00:49:08 2004
From: psahores at easynet.fr (Pierre Sahores)
Date: Tue, 24 Feb 2004 06:49:08 +0100
Subject: =?iso-8859-1?q?Re=3A_Pb_avec_l=27=E9diteur_de_scripts?=
In-Reply-To: <008501c3fa63$77c96720$6601a8c0@LightningFlash>
References: <008501c3fa63$77c96720$6601a8c0@LightningFlash>
Message-ID: <2A0AD4AB-668D-11D8-A4D5-000A95C61E96@easynet.fr>

Your French seems very good, Ken !

Did you work at the M.I.T. (where any professor have to be able to read 
Bourbaki in the original french issues) or so, before ?
-- 
Bien cordialement, Pierre Sahores

100, rue de Paris
F - 77140 Nemours

psahores at easynet.fr

GSM:   +33 6 03 95 77 70
Pro:      +33 1 41 60 52 68
Dom:    +33 1 64 45 05 33
Fax:      +33 1 64 45 05 33

Inspection acad?mique de Seine-Saint-Denis
Applications et SGBD ACID SQL (WEB et PGI)
Penser et produire "delta de productivit?"

Le 24 f?vr. 04, ? 00:18, Ken Ray a ?crit :

> Alain,
>
> Quelle erreur obtenez-vous ?
>
> (je ne parle pas fran?ais tr?s bien et n'ai pas utilis? un
> traducteur d'encha?nement pour ceci.)
>
> Ken Ray
> Sons of Thunder Software
> Email: kray at sonsothunder.com
> Web Site: http://www.sonsothunder.com/
>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: use-revolution-bounces at lists.runrev.com
>> [mailto:use-revolution-bounces at lists.runrev.com] On Behalf Of
>> Alain Bois
>> Sent: Monday, February 23, 2004 2:45 PM
>> To: How to use Revolution
>> Subject: Pb avec l'?diteur de scripts
>>
>>
>> sous OS X Panther, j'ai un probl?me qd je sors de l'?diteur
>> de script,
>> le pointeur se met en bas de page et g?n?re une erreur de script Voir
>> copie d'?cran ci-dessous.
>> Cette erreur n'appara?t pas avec Rev 2.0 mais avec Rev 2.2
>>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>


From hershbp at realtorsgroup.us  Tue Feb 24 00:53:04 2004
From: hershbp at realtorsgroup.us (hershrev)
Date: Tue, 24 Feb 2004 00:53:04 -0500
Subject: closeField
In-Reply-To: <4DDFAC53-6676-11D8-BAB5-0003937A97B8@genesearch.com.au>
Message-ID: <B69814C6-668D-11D8-BBFB-0030654C1E62@realtorsgroup.us>


On Monday, February 23, 2004, at 10:05 PM, Sarah Reichelt wrote:

> closeField only gets sent when the contents of the field have changed. 
> exitField gets sent whenever the focus leaves a field even if it 
> hasn't changed. That may be your problem, or if you have a closeField 
> handler in a field or group, it may be intercepting the card's > message.
Yes , only when the contents changes thats exactly what I'm referring 
to. I also tried to put the script in the field itself but no response.
And no groups involved in the stack. What do you mean by intercepting  
the card's message ?
Thanks hershrev.
>
> Cheers,
> Sarah
>
> On 24 Feb 2004, at 12:15 pm, hershrev wrote:
>
>> 	Hello every one I have an interesting situation, I have a few fields 
>> dups. from one another (different names)
>> I have an " on closeField " message in my card and not all respond to 
>> the message ?
>> Thanks hershrev.
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> use-revolution mailing list
>> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>>
>>
>>
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>


From pixelbird at interisland.net  Tue Feb 24 00:58:49 2004
From: pixelbird at interisland.net (Ken Norris)
Date: Mon, 23 Feb 2004 21:58:49 -0800
Subject: Scrolling a Card? MouseMove solution
In-Reply-To: <20040223085046.75899930084@mail.runrev.com>
Message-ID: <BC602819.524D%pixelbird@interisland.net>

Hi Frank, Scott, et al...

> Date: Mon, 23 Feb 2004 01:27:20 +0000
> From: Frank Leahy <frank at backtalk.com>
> Subject: Re: Scrolling a Card?

> Unless you have a background process that needs time in your app, it
> doesn't really matter if the processor gets hogged for a bit (and OSX
> should take care of other processes ok) -- but it might be interesting
> to code it that way.
----------
Exactly right. It could easily be an issue, if the user's machine is online
doing something besides idle.
---------- 
>> 2) It doesn't appear to have bounds. What happens if you try to drag
>> the
>> image past the hScroll or vScroll limits of the scrollbars? Does the
>> engine
>> stop it automatically? Does it throw an error?

> Setting the scroll negative will pin it to zero, and setting it > max
> will pin it to max.  Notice too I get the current value of the scroll
> each time through the loop, so that once it's pinned mouse movement in
> the opposite direction will start scrolling right away.
----------
Thanks so much. I was trying to set limits in the handler, but, as you say,
it isn't necessary because setting scroll values beyond scroll limits just
returns valid limits on either end.
----------
> From: Scott Rossi <scott at tactilemedia.com>
> Subject: Re: Scrolling a Card?
 
> In the past, another important concern for constructs such as "repeat while
> the mouse is down" or "repeat until the mouse is up" was that the mouseup
> event would sometimes get overlooked in the repeat handler.
----------
Oh yeah...that too. Occasionally "the mouse" events in a repeat structure
used to cough. I _also_ don't know if it's been fixed.

Anyway, here's my solution which works *the Rev way*. Many thanks to Frank
Leahy for a working script, Thomas McGrath III for time and thoughts, and
Scott Rossi for ongoing advice. The skinny form, thoroughly tested (watch
linewraps):

on mouseDown
  global gTX,gTY
  put item 1 of mouseLoc() into gTX
  put item 2 of mouseLoc() into gTY
  set the allowMove of me to true ## automatically creates a custom prop
end mouseDown

on mouseMove x,y
  global gTX,gTY
  if the allowMove of me then
     ## substitute your group name or id:
     set hScroll(group id 1006) to hScroll(group id 1006)+(gTX-x)
     set vScroll(group id 1006) to vScroll(group id 1006)+(gTY-y)
     put x into gTX
     put y into gTY
   end if
end mouseMove

on mouseUp
  global gAllowMove
  set the allowMove of me to false
end mouseUp

That about does it -- have fun ;-)

Ken N.




From hershbp at realtorsgroup.us  Tue Feb 24 01:03:16 2004
From: hershbp at realtorsgroup.us (hershrev)
Date: Tue, 24 Feb 2004 01:03:16 -0500
Subject: adjusting cells in table field
In-Reply-To: <7F269F8A-6676-11D8-BAB5-0003937A97B8@genesearch.com.au>
Message-ID: <237C8885-668F-11D8-BBFB-0030654C1E62@realtorsgroup.us>

Sorry for not expressing myself properly , I'd like to set different 
sizes in one table field e.g. column 1 ,150 tab stops column 2 to 50 
tab stops and so on . Or like other applications , to move the grid 
with the mouse.
Thanks hershrev.
On Monday, February 23, 2004, at 10:06 PM, Sarah Reichelt wrote:

> Set the tabStops. An easy way to do this visually is using Rinaldi's 
> TabRuler plugin, available in the Revolution section of his site at 
> http://www.xcmdfactory.com/
>
> Sarah
>
> On 24 Feb 2004, at 12:52 pm, hershrev wrote:
>
>> Hi , is there a way adjusting cells in a table field to different 
>> widths ?
>> Thanks hershrev
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> use-revolution mailing list
>> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>>
>>
>>
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>


From pixelbird at interisland.net  Tue Feb 24 01:36:22 2004
From: pixelbird at interisland.net (Ken Norris)
Date: Mon, 23 Feb 2004 22:36:22 -0800
Subject: Choices, Choices, Choices
In-Reply-To: <20040224055253.40024930094@mail.runrev.com>
Message-ID: <BC6030E6.5253%pixelbird@interisland.net>

Hi Thomas,

> Date: Mon, 23 Feb 2004 22:22:34 -0500
> From: Thomas McGrath III <3mcgrath at adelphia.net>
> Subject: Choices, Choices, Choices

> My Decision is between arrays (which I am new to understanding), Custom
> Properties (which seem complicated for this) and Simple storage
> containers from delimited text files (which I am used to).
-----------
I know you've explained this as best you can in an email, but I, for one,
can't see the total outcome...what it's for.

Anyway, I'm going to send you to the dictionary to look at all the offset
stuff.

Offset functions are very fast if you can use them. Maybe an itemOffset. If
you set up your matrix, you can develop a multidimensional array function
which in turn uses offset functions to query your data for matches, you'll
have it.

Or you could use them to match chunk expressions

How to arrange and assemble it? I dunno, I can't really see what it's used
for, our overview is limited.

Ken N.


From 3mcgrath at adelphia.net  Tue Feb 24 01:39:06 2004
From: 3mcgrath at adelphia.net (Thomas McGrath III)
Date: Tue, 24 Feb 2004 01:39:06 -0500
Subject: let me rephrase that
Message-ID: <247B0A94-6694-11D8-A8B8-000A95DA60FA@adelphia.net>

Let me rephrase that.

Which is better for getting multiple pieces of information and acting 
upon them?
An array, custom property sets and custom properties or delimited items 
in lines in a variable?

  I can't find enough good advice in the docs on where it is best to use 
and array(by keys) or custom props(by prop names) or just stick to a 
variable (line x with item 1to 4 etc).

This is where I would rather have the printed version of the docs to 
peruse through.

Thanks

Tom

Macintosh PowerBook G-4 OSX 10.3.1, OS 9.2.2, 1.25 GHz, 512MB RAM, Rev 
2.1.2


Advanced Media Group
Thomas J McGrath III	? 2003 ?	3mcgrath at adelphia.net
220 Drake Road, Bethel Park, PA 15102



From sarahr at genesearch.com.au  Tue Feb 24 01:40:10 2004
From: sarahr at genesearch.com.au (Sarah Reichelt)
Date: Tue, 24 Feb 2004 16:40:10 +1000
Subject: adjusting cells in table field
In-Reply-To: <237C8885-668F-11D8-BBFB-0030654C1E62@realtorsgroup.us>
References: <237C8885-668F-11D8-BBFB-0030654C1E62@realtorsgroup.us>
Message-ID: <4B22FDE1-6694-11D8-BAB5-0003937A97B8@genesearch.com.au>

> Sorry for not expressing myself properly , I'd like to set different 
> sizes in one table field e.g. column 1 ,150 tab stops column 2 to 50 
> tab stops and so on .
tabStops is still the way to go as you can set it to a comma-delimited 
list of tabs. To use your example, setting a field's tabStops to 
150,200,300 would make the first column 150, the 2nd column 50 and the 
3rd 100. Any other columns take the size of the last one specified, so 
they would be 100 also. Rinaldi's plugin allows you to do this 
graphically and makes it much easier to alter tabs later.

> Or like other applications , to move the grid with the mouse.

If you want to be able to drag column widths around, check out Chipp 
Walter's altFldHeader control at: 
http://www.altuit.com/webs/altuit2/RunRev/Downloads.htm

Cheers,
Sarah


From dsc at swcp.com  Tue Feb 24 02:25:36 2004
From: dsc at swcp.com (Dar Scott)
Date: Tue, 24 Feb 2004 00:25:36 -0700
Subject: let me rephrase that
In-Reply-To: <247B0A94-6694-11D8-A8B8-000A95DA60FA@adelphia.net>
Message-ID: <A3FCC906-669A-11D8-B0A9-000A9567A3E6@swcp.com>


On Monday, February 23, 2004, at 11:39 PM, Thomas McGrath III wrote:

> Which is better for getting multiple pieces of information and acting 
> upon them?
> An array, custom property sets and custom properties or delimited 
> items in lines in a variable?

Except for character chunks, arbitrary chunk references take time 
related to the size of whole value, so unless you always use chunk 
repeat loops, this is better only for smaller total values.

Arrays have an overhead, but are great for storing many values.  There 
are some limitations in passing about as values, but those can be 
handled.  Currently they cannot be nested, but values can be strings 
that can have chunk interpretations.  Also, there are ways to use the 
arrays that make them look multidimensional.  Keys are strings (no 
nulls) and elements can be any value except array.  Since keys are 
strings, be careful with numerical keys; the numberFormat property will 
apply.

Custom properties and custom property sets persist in stacks except 
standalones, so whatever you chose above might be stored this way 
respectively.

Arrays are referenced by name.  That can be handy.  It might be hard to 
remember if age is item 7 or 8.

Dar Scott




From mcdomi at free.fr  Tue Feb 24 02:47:08 2004
From: mcdomi at free.fr (Dom)
Date: Tue, 24 Feb 2004 08:47:08 +0100
Subject: Pb avec =?iso-8859-1?q?l=27=E9diteur?=de scripts
In-Reply-To: <1E96B6B5-6641-11D8-9282-000A95AB7040@wanadoo.fr>
Message-ID: <1g9nin6.1k7vxx418zohckM%mcdomi@free.fr>

Alain Bois <in.bois at wanadoo.fr> wrote:

> Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Tout d'abord, ?vite de poster en QP
First, avoid to post in QP ;-)

> sous OS X Panther, j'ai un probl?me qd je sors de l'?diteur de script,
> le pointeur se met en bas de page et g?n?re une erreur de script Voir
> copie d'?cran ci-dessous.
> Cette erreur n'appara?t pas avec Rev 2.0 mais avec Rev 2.2

Deuxi?mement, sais-tu qu'il y a une liste Revolution en fran?ais ?
Voir ma signature :-)))

Second, do you know there is a french-speaking Revolution List?
See my Sig ;-)

PS: les pi?ces jointes ne sont pas permises sur la liste US -- mais
elles le sont sur la liste FR :-)
Attachments are not allowed on this List -- but there are on the
french-speaking List :-)

-- 
Vous parlez fran?ais ? faites un tour sur le groupe francophone !
revolutionfr-subscribe at yahoogroupes.fr
Jetez un oeil sur RevoBlog <http://revoblog.free.fr> !

From mcdomi at free.fr  Tue Feb 24 02:47:09 2004
From: mcdomi at free.fr (Dom)
Date: Tue, 24 Feb 2004 08:47:09 +0100
Subject: put URL "the Address" and get a directory?
In-Reply-To: <20040224025846.23792.qmail@web40501.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <1g9niw5.vbzpo85078xsM%mcdomi@free.fr>

Alejandro Tejada <capellan2000 at yahoo.com> wrote:

> the recent beta of libUrl lets you to upload
> files to a server. I've success using this
> new version with php and perl cgi scripts
> to upload files to servers.

Thanks, I will take a glance...
In fact, I succeeded in uploading a file to a server with the RR 212
tools!

As for php & perl stuff, i'd prefer to resort only on pure Transcripts
methods ;-)

I am not very willing to study another language -- when all of this is
possible with the sole Revolution!

With the URL "ftp://name:password at my.web.site" I was able to get a
directory / a file.

My concern was to be able to get a directory with a simple URL
"http://my.web.site" command -- but i am aware that this will a security
problm, if anybody were able to get a directory ;->

I wanted to somewhat mimic a public ftp client, which permits a
navigation between directories.


-- 
Vous parlez fran?ais ? faites un tour sur le groupe francophone !
revolutionfr-subscribe at yahoogroupes.fr
Jetez un oeil sur RevoBlog <http://revoblog.free.fr> !

From mcdomi at free.fr  Tue Feb 24 03:16:39 2004
From: mcdomi at free.fr (Dom)
Date: Tue, 24 Feb 2004 09:16:39 +0100
Subject: put URL "the Address" and get a directory?
In-Reply-To: <1g9niw5.vbzpo85078xsM%mcdomi@free.fr>
Message-ID: <1g9nlk3.42rfd11bhxptuM%mcdomi@free.fr>

Dom <mcdomi at free.fr> wrote:

> With the URL "ftp://name:password at my.web.site" I was able to get a
> directory / a file.

Also: what is exactly returned by this command?
I get something like this:

drwxr-xr-x   6 web site      144 Feb 23 16:21 .
drwxr-xr-x   3 web site       72 Feb 12 19:30 ..
drwxr-xr-x   3 web site      104 Feb 12 19:30 06
drwxr-xr-x   2 web site       80 Feb 10 14:34 10
drwxr-xr-x   2 web site       80 Feb 13 18:00 13
drwxr-xr-x   2 web site       80 Feb 23 15:59 23

I understand that the last "word" is the directory... 
(e.g. I really have 4 directories, "06" "10" "13" and "23")

The first "word" shows the permissions
Word -3 to -2: date & time

What are the other words?

-- 
Vous parlez fran?ais ? faites un tour sur le groupe francophone !
revolutionfr-subscribe at yahoogroupes.fr
Jetez un oeil sur RevoBlog <http://revoblog.free.fr> !

From klaus at major-k.de  Tue Feb 24 04:47:45 2004
From: klaus at major-k.de (Klaus Major)
Date: Tue, 24 Feb 2004 10:47:45 +0100
Subject: =?iso-8859-1?q?Re=3A_Pb_avec_l=27=E9diteur_de_scripts?=
In-Reply-To: <B82301D2-6654-11D8-A8B8-000A95DA60FA@adelphia.net>
References: <1E96B6B5-6641-11D8-9282-000A95AB7040@wanadoo.fr>
	<B82301D2-6654-11D8-A8B8-000A95DA60FA@adelphia.net>
Message-ID: <7F650B99-66AE-11D8-A5BE-000A27B49A96@major-k.de>

Hi Thomas McGrath III,

> Ujava nedadde umventoupe devous gefigable excifibet de feragible.

what an ignorant posting!

> Tom
>
> On Feb 23, 2004, at 3:44 PM, Alain Bois wrote:
>
>> sous OS X Panther, j'ai un probl?me qd je sors de l'?diteur de 
>> script, le pointeur se met en bas de page et g?n?re une erreur de 
>> script Voir copie d'?cran ci-dessous.
>> Cette erreur n'appara?t pas avec Rev 2.0 mais avec Rev 2.2

> Thomas J. McGrath III
> SCS
> 1000 Killarney Dr.
> Pittsburgh, PA 15234
> 412-885-8541

Regards

Klaus Major
klaus at major-k.de
www.major-k.de


From frank at backtalk.com  Tue Feb 24 05:50:45 2004
From: frank at backtalk.com (Frank Leahy)
Date: Tue, 24 Feb 2004 10:50:45 +0000
Subject: Choices, Choices, Choices
In-Reply-To: <20040224055253.62A5D930095@mail.runrev.com>
Message-ID: <4C6089A3-66B7-11D8-A349-000A9580FCCE@backtalk.com>


On Tuesday, February 24, 2004, at 05:52  AM, 
use-revolution-request at lists.runrev.com wrote:

> I am starting a new project and have to decide the best way to store a
> lot of info for my button states and actions.
> right now I need to decide which is the best way to proceed???
>
>
> My Decision is between arrays (which I am new to understanding), Custom
> Properties (which seem complicated for this) and Simple storage
> containers from delimited text files (which I am used to). Any Help
> deciding??????
>

I have a similar situation with the photo album product I've written -- 
potentially hundreds or thousands of photos all with title, 
description, size, etc. (12 fields in all), as well as a button 
("include").  I store the data in a text file (on disk) that looks 
something like this:

Version:1.0
accessGroup:[Choose A Group]
coverPhoto:IMG_2234 foo.jpg
date:2/23/04
description:
ftpServer:frank at 192.168.0.2
lastModified:1077572867
lastModifiedFormatted:2/23/04 at 9
47 PM
lastUploaded:
lastUploadedFormatted:Never
location:/Temporary Items/Test Albums/1-1
numPhotos:1
public:true
showInGallery:true
title:1-1
---
1_date:
1_description:
1_dimensions:650 x 433
1_exif:
1_file:IMG_2234 foo.jpg
1_fileLastModified:1077546932
1_geoURL:
1_imageLastTouched:1077572769
1_include:true
1_keywords:
1_size:176128
1_sizeFormatted:172.0K
1_title:Title 1
---
2_...
---
3_...


At runtime I read that data into an array that has one key for each 
entry in the data file:

put "[Choose A Group]" into albumData["accessGroup"]
put "IMG_2234 foo.jpg" into albumData["coverPhoto"]
...
put xxx into albumData["1_date"]
put xxx into albumData["1_description"]
...
put xxx into albumData["2_date"]
put xxx into albumData[2_description"]
...

I find that reading and writing the arrays is simple and plenty fast 
enough even with thousands of photos.

And arrays are a great thing to use at runtime.  Notice that I've named 
the keys in a way that makes it trivial to get or set any data I need 
directly.  If I need the title for photo 999, then it's as easy as 
referencing albumData["999_title"].  And if I needed the titles for 
photos 100 to 199, it's as easy as:

repeat with i = 100 to 199
    get albumData[i & "_title"]
    ...do something with it...
end repeat

Hope this helps.

-- Frank


From shedrup at ms9.hinet.net  Tue Feb 24 06:39:29 2004
From: shedrup at ms9.hinet.net (Friedrich F. Grohmann)
Date: Tue, 24 Feb 2004 19:39:29 +0800
Subject: save dialogue stuck
Message-ID: <200402241137.TAA07767@msr79.hinet.net>

Some members of the list -Dom, Jacqueline, and Richard- were so kind to 
offer further, highly informative explanations regarding the "Rev as 
database" issue. My gratitude to all of them. Obviously, I have to 
rethink the wisdom of transferring stacks of this type to Rev.

As a matter of fact, what I called "dictionaries" are not the simple 
databases one is probably prone to associate with the term. These stacks 
are part and parcel of my research work interacting between each other 
and further stacks with large amounts of text. Most of the cards also 
contain "active text". 

Moreover, since I am a philologist dealing basically with ancient Asian 
scriptures a number of different scripts of both, the one-byte and the 
two-byte variety are involved. Years ago, wondering whether a database 
might facilitate my work I tried FileMaker. Though I'm still using some 
stuff I did then for everyday tasks, my conclusion was that it was far 
from being able to deal with texts in the way I needed it.

HyperCard turned out to be incomparably more flexible and powerful. 
Different scripts like Chinese, Devanagari, and Roman with lots of 
diacritics happily populating one and the same field, all the possible 
variants of the "find" command, seamless communication between different 
stacks - almost a dream come true. 

This does not mean I'm saying HC is perfect. Occasionally, for reasons 
wildly beyond me, it fails to find what is plainly there but so far I've 
never come across other software which would serve the specific needs of 
this aspect of my work better than HC. 

Still, I will continue experimenting with Rev and want to thank everybody 
once more for the generous input.


From shedrup at ms9.hinet.net  Tue Feb 24 06:39:32 2004
From: shedrup at ms9.hinet.net (Friedrich F. Grohmann)
Date: Tue, 24 Feb 2004 19:39:32 +0800
Subject: what's in a name
Message-ID: <200402241137.TAA07779@msr79.hinet.net>

I took a stack (approximately 5500 cards) and wrote a script which put 
the contents of one of the fields (an average of two to three syllables) 
into the name of each card. Saving the stack after this operation, I 
realized that its size had mushroomed from 1.3 MB to 7.1 MB. Suspecting 
corruption, I took another copy of the original stack and put instead the 
number of the card into its name. The result was pretty much the same. 

It might be a silly question, but why does it make such a huge difference 
in terms of stack size if every card is identified by a unique name?

Fritz 

From 3mcgrath at adelphia.net  Tue Feb 24 07:24:09 2004
From: 3mcgrath at adelphia.net (Thomas McGrath III)
Date: Tue, 24 Feb 2004 07:24:09 -0500
Subject: Choices, Choices, Choices
In-Reply-To: <4C6089A3-66B7-11D8-A349-000A9580FCCE@backtalk.com>
References: <4C6089A3-66B7-11D8-A349-000A9580FCCE@backtalk.com>
Message-ID: <58A18BBA-66C4-11D8-A8B8-000A95DA60FA@adelphia.net>

Frank,

Yes, thank you. This helps very much to see haw a real array is used. I 
need to think more on it.
Are there any other benefits from the array structure?

Tom

On Feb 24, 2004, at 5:50 AM, Frank Leahy wrote:

>
> On Tuesday, February 24, 2004, at 05:52  AM, 
> use-revolution-request at lists.runrev.com wrote:
>
>> I am starting a new project and have to decide the best way to store a
>> lot of info for my button states and actions.
>> right now I need to decide which is the best way to proceed???
>>
>>
>> My Decision is between arrays (which I am new to understanding), 
>> Custom
>> Properties (which seem complicated for this) and Simple storage
>> containers from delimited text files (which I am used to). Any Help
>> deciding??????
> 1_title:Title 1
> ---
> 2_...
> ---
> 3_...
>
>
> At runtime I read that data into an array that has one key for each 
> entry in the data file:
>
> put "[Choose A Group]" into albumData["accessGroup"]
> put "IMG_2234 foo.jpg" into albumData["coverPhoto"]
> ...
> put xxx into albumData["1_date"]
> put xxx into albumData["1_description"]
> ...
> put xxx into albumData["2_date"]
> put xxx into albumData[2_description"]
> ...
>
> I find that reading and writing the arrays is simple and plenty fast 
> enough even with thousands of photos.
>
> And arrays are a great thing to use at runtime.  Notice that I've 
> named the keys in a way that makes it trivial to get or set any data I 
> need directly.  If I need the title for photo 999, then it's as easy 
> as referencing albumData["999_title"].  And if I needed the titles for 
> photos 100 to 199, it's as easy as:
>
> repeat with i = 100 to 199
>    get albumData[i & "_title"]
>    ...do something with it...
> end repeat
>
> Hope this helps.
>
> -- Frank
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>
>

Thomas J. McGrath III
SCS
1000 Killarney Dr.
Pittsburgh, PA 15234
412-885-8541


From 3mcgrath at adelphia.net  Tue Feb 24 07:35:20 2004
From: 3mcgrath at adelphia.net (Thomas McGrath III)
Date: Tue, 24 Feb 2004 07:35:20 -0500
Subject: Choices, Choices, Choices
In-Reply-To: <BC6030E6.5253%pixelbird@interisland.net>
References: <BC6030E6.5253%pixelbird@interisland.net>
Message-ID: <E8A74892-66C5-11D8-A8B8-000A95DA60FA@adelphia.net>

Hi Ken,

I knew it would be tough to get the idea across in an email. But I 
guess the real thing I need to know is what are the benefits from each, 
hopefully in a way that I can relate to. I do understand the overall 
thing I need to do with the data since I've done it before.
The problem was that in SC The code was way too long using the 
delimited field data.

Not real code but the idea behind what I need to do with it:
If item 1 of line 1 and item 2 of line 1 matches item 1 and item 2 of 
line 2 then take item 3 of line 2 and make it available else make it 
unavailable.
if item 1 of line 1 and item 2 of line 1 matches item 1 and item 2 of 
line 3 then take item 3 of line 2 and make it available else make it 
unavailable.
etc. through 130 lines
Then put 2 into key hit presses so far for this sequence.

repeat this type of thing every time a key is pressed and also if the 
mouse hovers over a button then do this and display what would happen 
if this key was presses. This happens over and over again.

SO, in checking this item and that item and changing button states over 
and over again I need to decide what the easiest way is to store and 
retrieve that data. Hopefully in a way that is a little bit easier to 
read and access.

Tom

On Feb 24, 2004, at 1:36 AM, Ken Norris wrote:

> Hi Thomas,
>
>> Date: Mon, 23 Feb 2004 22:22:34 -0500
>> From: Thomas McGrath III <3mcgrath at adelphia.net>
>> Subject: Choices, Choices, Choices
>
>> My Decision is between arrays (which I am new to understanding), 
>> Custom
>> Properties (which seem complicated for this) and Simple storage
>> containers from delimited text files (which I am used to).
> -----------
> I know you've explained this as best you can in an email, but I, for 
> one,
> can't see the total outcome...what it's for.
>
> Anyway, I'm going to send you to the dictionary to look at all the 
> offset
> stuff.
>
> Offset functions are very fast if you can use them. Maybe an 
> itemOffset. If
> you set up your matrix, you can develop a multidimensional array 
> function
> which in turn uses offset functions to query your data for matches, 
> you'll
> have it.
>
> Or you could use them to match chunk expressions
>
> How to arrange and assemble it? I dunno, I can't really see what it's 
> used
> for, our overview is limited.
>
> Ken N.
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>
>

Thomas J. McGrath III
SCS
1000 Killarney Dr.
Pittsburgh, PA 15234
412-885-8541


From 3mcgrath at adelphia.net  Tue Feb 24 07:54:22 2004
From: 3mcgrath at adelphia.net (Thomas McGrath III)
Date: Tue, 24 Feb 2004 07:54:22 -0500
Subject: let me rephrase that
In-Reply-To: <A3FCC906-669A-11D8-B0A9-000A9567A3E6@swcp.com>
References: <A3FCC906-669A-11D8-B0A9-000A9567A3E6@swcp.com>
Message-ID: <912B08E2-66C8-11D8-A8B8-000A95DA60FA@adelphia.net>

Dar,

Thanks, I don't really understand the array and it's benefits yet. I am 
trying to sink my teeth into it and apply it to my issue in my head.
What does nested mean to me? What would it benefit me to have it appear 
multidimensional?

The most important thing that seems to make sense to me right now is 
the benefits of using a reference name that makes sense.
I like that. It might make things a lot easier to read.

Dar, since I have a dozen items in each line that refer to each button 
that is a lot of keys and I can see how it would apply BUT since I have 
hundreds of button graphics each with dozens of lines ARE they separate 
arrays? Then how to manage the separate arrays.
Or is it part of the same array? like in xml where each is a new main 
key and then the dozen item keys..?????

Instead of line 20 item 1 and item 2 to check it would be the keyname 
of (button 20) and check its button 1 and button 2 states to act upon.

Thanks again for your patience. I might be slow to learn but once the 
stuff is in my head it runs wild.

Tom

On Feb 24, 2004, at 2:25 AM, Dar Scott wrote:

>
> On Monday, February 23, 2004, at 11:39 PM, Thomas McGrath III wrote:
>
>> Which is better for getting multiple pieces of information and acting 
>> upon them?
>> An array, custom property sets and custom properties or delimited 
>> items in lines in a variable?
>  Currently they cannot be nested, but values can be strings that can 
> have chunk interpretations.  Also, there are ways to use the arrays 
> that make them look multidimensional.  Keys are strings (no nulls) and 
> elements can be any value except array.  Since keys are strings, be 
> careful with numerical keys; the numberFormat property will apply.
>
> Custom properties and custom property sets persist in stacks except 
> standalones, so whatever you chose above might be stored this way 
> respectively.
>
> Arrays are referenced by name.  That can be handy.  It might be hard 
> to remember if age is item 7 or 8.
>
> Dar Scott
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>
>

Thomas J. McGrath III
SCS
1000 Killarney Dr.
Pittsburgh, PA 15234
412-885-8541


From 3mcgrath at adelphia.net  Tue Feb 24 08:03:35 2004
From: 3mcgrath at adelphia.net (Thomas McGrath III)
Date: Tue, 24 Feb 2004 08:03:35 -0500
Subject: =?iso-8859-1?q?Re=3A_Pb_avec_l=27=E9diteur_de_scripts?=
In-Reply-To: <7F650B99-66AE-11D8-A5BE-000A27B49A96@major-k.de>
References: <1E96B6B5-6641-11D8-9282-000A95AB7040@wanadoo.fr>
	<B82301D2-6654-11D8-A8B8-000A95DA60FA@adelphia.net>
	<7F650B99-66AE-11D8-A5BE-000A27B49A96@major-k.de>
Message-ID: <DB28AC54-66C9-11D8-A8B8-000A95DA60FA@adelphia.net>

Klaus, Although I was not being ignorant I mean no harm.

You see it was after many many hours of writing code and reading 
hundreds of list emails when I cam across Alain's post and my mind just 
stopped completely. At first I did not recognize it as french because 
of things like genere une erreur. So I started to laugh at myself for 
not being able to understand it. My post was actually my awful way of 
sharing that experience with my friends here on the list. I thought my 
reaction to the text after all that coding was funny.

If we can't laugh at ourselves then maybe we are taking things to 
seriously!! If you have seen some of my previous posts, I have this 
nasty habit of finding things funny that may not be readily apparent to 
others. But there are no malicious bones in my body.

I know you meant well,

Tom

On Feb 24, 2004, at 4:47 AM, Klaus Major wrote:

> Hi Thomas McGrath III,
>
>> Ujava nedadde umventoupe devous gefigable excifibet de feragible.
>
> what an ignorant posting!
>
>> Tom
>>
>> On Feb 23, 2004, at 3:44 PM, Alain Bois wrote:
>>
>>> sous OS X Panther, j'ai un probl?me qd je sors de l'?diteur de 
>>> script, le pointeur se met en bas de page et g?n?re une erreur de 
>>> script Voir copie d'?cran ci-dessous.
>>> Cette erreur n'appara?t pas avec Rev 2.0 mais avec Rev 2.2
>
>> Thomas J. McGrath III
>> SCS
>> 1000 Killarney Dr.
>> Pittsburgh, PA 15234
>> 412-885-8541
>
> Regards
>
> Klaus Major
> klaus at major-k.de
> www.major-k.de
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>
>

Thomas J. McGrath III
SCS
1000 Killarney Dr.
Pittsburgh, PA 15234
412-885-8541


From 3mcgrath at adelphia.net  Tue Feb 24 08:09:27 2004
From: 3mcgrath at adelphia.net (Thomas McGrath III)
Date: Tue, 24 Feb 2004 08:09:27 -0500
Subject: Choices, Choices, Choices
In-Reply-To: <4C6089A3-66B7-11D8-A349-000A9580FCCE@backtalk.com>
References: <4C6089A3-66B7-11D8-A349-000A9580FCCE@backtalk.com>
Message-ID: <ACE18847-66CA-11D8-A8B8-000A95DA60FA@adelphia.net>

Frank,

After looking at the code again I see that each Set of info is named 
differently 1_ and 2_... It seems then that I would need to keep 
another array of those keys and which button number they apply to.

Is there another way to do that? Because in an item del situation I 
would refer to item 1 every time regardless of what was in it. instead 
using key(1_ddd) and key(2_ddd) etc all for item 1's which are the main 
names of each set of items. I can see how the repeats would work with 
building the 1&"_ddd" etc. But is there another way to do it with 
arrays?

Thanks

Tom

On Feb 24, 2004, at 5:50 AM, Frank Leahy wrote:

>
> On Tuesday, February 24, 2004, at 05:52  AM, 
> use-revolution-request at lists.runrev.com wrote:
>
>> I am starting a new project and have to decide the best way to store a
>> lot of info for my button states and actions.
>> right now I need to decide which is the best way to proceed???
>>
>>
>> My Decision is between arrays (which I am new to understanding), 
>> Custom
>> Properties (which seem complicated for this) and Simple storage
>> containers from delimited text files (which I am used to). Any Help
>> deciding??????
>>
>
> I have a similar situation with the photo album product I've written 
> -- potentially hundreds or thousands of photos all with title, 
> description, size, etc. (12 fields in all), as well as a button 
> ("include").  I store the data in a text file (on disk) that looks 
> something like this:
>
> Version:1.0
> accessGroup:[Choose A Group]
> coverPhoto:IMG_2234 foo.jpg
> date:2/23/04
> description:
> ftpServer:frank at 192.168.0.2
> lastModified:1077572867
> lastModifiedFormatted:2/23/04 at 9
47 PM
> lastUploaded:
> lastUploadedFormatted:Never
> location:/Temporary Items/Test Albums/1-1
> numPhotos:1
> public:true
> showInGallery:true
> title:1-1
> ---
> 1_date:
> 1_description:
> 1_dimensions:650 x 433
> 1_exif:
> 1_file:IMG_2234 foo.jpg
> 1_fileLastModified:1077546932
> 1_geoURL:
> 1_imageLastTouched:1077572769
> 1_include:true
> 1_keywords:
> 1_size:176128
> 1_sizeFormatted:172.0K
> 1_title:Title 1
> ---
> 2_...
> ---
> 3_...
>
>
> At runtime I read that data into an array that has one key for each 
> entry in the data file:
>
> put "[Choose A Group]" into albumData["accessGroup"]
> put "IMG_2234 foo.jpg" into albumData["coverPhoto"]
> ...
> put xxx into albumData["1_date"]
> put xxx into albumData["1_description"]
> ...
> put xxx into albumData["2_date"]
> put xxx into albumData[2_description"]
> ...
>
> I find that reading and writing the arrays is simple and plenty fast 
> enough even with thousands of photos.
>
> And arrays are a great thing to use at runtime.  Notice that I've 
> named the keys in a way that makes it trivial to get or set any data I 
> need directly.  If I need the title for photo 999, then it's as easy 
> as referencing albumData["999_title"].  And if I needed the titles for 
> photos 100 to 199, it's as easy as:
>
> repeat with i = 100 to 199
>    get albumData[i & "_title"]
>    ...do something with it...
> end repeat
>
> Hope this helps.
>
> -- Frank
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>
>

Thomas J. McGrath III
SCS
1000 Killarney Dr.
Pittsburgh, PA 15234
412-885-8541


From dsc at swcp.com  Tue Feb 24 08:22:09 2004
From: dsc at swcp.com (Dar Scott)
Date: Tue, 24 Feb 2004 06:22:09 -0700
Subject: let me rephrase that
In-Reply-To: <912B08E2-66C8-11D8-A8B8-000A95DA60FA@adelphia.net>
Message-ID: <72D29247-66CC-11D8-9832-000A9567A3E6@swcp.com>


On Tuesday, February 24, 2004, at 05:54 AM, Thomas McGrath III wrote:

> What does nested mean to me?

Still on bugzilla wish list as multidimensional arrays.

> What would it benefit me to have it appear multidimensional?

See below.

> The most important thing that seems to make sense to me right now is 
> the benefits of using a reference name that makes sense.
> I like that. It might make things a lot easier to read.
>
> Dar, since I have a dozen items in each line that refer to each button 
> that is a lot of keys and I can see how it would apply BUT since I 
> have hundreds of button graphics each with dozens of lines ARE they 
> separate arrays? Then how to manage the separate arrays.
> Or is it part of the same array? like in xml where each is a new main 
> key and then the dozen item keys..?????

Suppose you have several projects, "Let hair grow long", "Scrub 
reactor", "Learn Attic Greek".  Each project has a "Goal Description", 
"Log", "Target Date", and optionally "Mascot".  To make a virtually 
multidimensional array, use the comma operator to build a single 
dimensional key.  Like this:

   Put "Cool Ponytail!" into projects["Let hair grow long","Goal 
Description"]

> Instead of line 20 item 1 and item 2 to check it would be the keyname 
> of (button 20) and check its button 1 and button 2 states to act upon.

An alternative is to put the attributes of each project into items of a 
string.  Perhaps you can define functions and handlers to get or set 
each attribute, given the project value:

function getGoalDescription projVal
    return item 1 of projVal
end getGoalDescription

handler setGoalDescription @projVal goalDescription
    put goalDescription into item 1 of projVal
end setGoadDescription

function getGoalDescriptionFromArray projName
    return getGoalDescription(projects[projName]
end getGoalDescriptionFromArray

Dar Scott



  
  


From DVGlasgow at aol.com  Tue Feb 24 09:14:35 2004
From: DVGlasgow at aol.com (DVGlasgow at aol.com)
Date: Tue, 24 Feb 2004 09:14:35 EST
Subject: trying to keep up to date with the list, bits and bobs
Message-ID: <157.2e7dd15e.2d6cb64b@aol.com>

Revolutionaries,

The traffic on this list has now officially exceeded my capacity to keep up 
with it all.  I used to lag behind sometimes, but now there are huge lists of 
virgin digests in my revolution folder.

I thought of generating a graph of the daily digests since I have subscribed, 
maybe a little script that would automatically update the graph so I would 
always have at my fingertips an indication of just how much stuff I am missing.  
I decided instead to read the last few days digests instead.

It is great to see so many new contributors, and I hope that the runrev sales 
chart is correlated with the theoretical traffic chart.  They deserve all the 
success they get.

My news is I have been invited  by a pretty big cheese in the busines to 
Alburquerque (is that how you spell it?) in October to showcase my sex offender 
assessment tool developed with runrev.  Woo hoo!.  Nearly famous.  Now how do I 
get there from East Lancashire?

In preparation  for the trip I am trying iron out some final oddities.  

I want to do a better 'about box', but find the provided 'made with Runtime' 
images appear rather blurry - has anyone got any suggestions for a nice 
professional about box?  A bit of a vague request, I know,  but I'll bet there are 
some favourite techniques out there.

Finally, I am *still* having odd problems with Win XP that I can't nail, that 
don't happen on any other Win OS or Mac classic (dunno about X, I am still 
too scared to switch).  The one I heard about today is that a button that is 
'shown' on opencard or via a tab click doesn't show on XP.  Same install on 
earlier Wins (& Mac) works fine.  I don't want to bore you all with baroque script, 
but I just want someone to say "Yes, Win XP is as strange as it looks and 
misbehaves with my stacks too".  Maybe add a few hints about why XP doesn't 
always seem able to respond to messages in the way everything else does.

Finally, Finally.  In all the posts I missed, has any clue been left 
regarding when the Rev 2 manuals I paid for long ago will actually turn up?

Best wishes,

David Glasgow

<A HREF="http://www.i-Psych.co.uk">i-Psych</A>

Forensic Clinical Psychology Software & Services

From klaus at major-k.de  Tue Feb 24 09:20:35 2004
From: klaus at major-k.de (Klaus Major)
Date: Tue, 24 Feb 2004 15:20:35 +0100
Subject: =?iso-8859-1?q?Re=3A_Pb_avec_l=27=E9diteur_de_scripts?=
In-Reply-To: <DB28AC54-66C9-11D8-A8B8-000A95DA60FA@adelphia.net>
References: <1E96B6B5-6641-11D8-9282-000A95AB7040@wanadoo.fr>
	<B82301D2-6654-11D8-A8B8-000A95DA60FA@adelphia.net>
	<7F650B99-66AE-11D8-A5BE-000A27B49A96@major-k.de>
	<DB28AC54-66C9-11D8-A8B8-000A95DA60FA@adelphia.net>
Message-ID: <9C84F276-66D4-11D8-A5BE-000A27B49A96@major-k.de>

Hi Thomas McGrath III,

> Klaus, Although I was not being ignorant I mean no harm.

Sure, but the post looked apparently (sic!) ignorant.

> You see it was after many many hours of writing code and reading 
> hundreds
> of list emails when I cam across Alain's post and my mind just stopped 
> completely.
> At first I did not recognize it as french because of things like 
> genere une erreur.
> So I started to laugh at myself for not being able to understand it. 
> My post was
> actually my awful way of sharing that experience with my friends here 
> on the list.
> I thought my reaction to the text after all that coding was funny.
>
> If we can't laugh at ourselves then maybe we are taking things to 
> seriously!!

Sure, but you should have added this mail to the last posting... ;-)

It was not funny at first look!

> If you have seen some of my previous posts, I have this nasty habit of 
> finding
> things funny that may not be readily apparent to others.
> But there are no malicious bones in my body.

I know and understand this, but the posting looked to me like a mockery 
of someone
ignorant not being able to understand any another language than 
english...

After i read this i would simply say that it was "thoughtless"...

> I know you meant well,

Yes, all my wishful thinking is: peace on earth...

Don't forget: it's the first look that matters (most of the time!)

> Tom

Regards

Klaus Major
klaus at major-k.de
www.major-k.de


From nnoydb at excite.com  Tue Feb 24 09:33:47 2004
From: nnoydb at excite.com (Kevin)
Date: Tue, 24 Feb 2004 09:33:47 -0500 (EST)
Subject: start using 
Message-ID: <20040224143347.B0BE7B736@xprdmailfe15.nwk.excite.com>


I could be doing one of those dumb user/developer tricks so please forgive in advace if this is stupid.  I attempted last night to put in the preOpen the following.


start using "../common/libMine.rev" 

start: can't find object
libGraph
start using "../common/libMine.rev"
"/Users/kevin/src/transcript/graph/libGraph.rev

and 

start using stack "../common/libMine.rev"

Error 

Chunk: can't find stack
libGraph
start using stack "../common/libMine.rev"
stack "/Users/kevin/src/transcript/graph/libGraph.rev"




_______________________________________________
Join Excite! - http://www.excite.com
The most personalized portal on the Web!

From sims at ezpzapps.com  Tue Feb 24 09:44:06 2004
From: sims at ezpzapps.com (sims)
Date: Tue, 24 Feb 2004 15:44:06 +0100
Subject: [ANN] European Rev Conference
Message-ID: <a05200f0abc6113310055@[10.0.0.2]>


Attention: European Revolutionaries!
European Rev Conference - Valletta, Malta
17-18 April 2004

We have formed an alliance and are presenting an exciting,
informative set of Rev demonstrations. Join the Revolution!

We have an excellent series of topics and demonstrations for
new and experienced Revolutionaries.

Getting started with Rev - Game development - Problem Solving
and Algorithms development - Building Business Applications

------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Saturday 17 April 2004
Presenter: Malte Brill

    Introduction to Rev:
    *Quick introduction to Transcript, the Rev language
    *Finding your way around the Rev development environment  (IDE)
    *Message hierarchy and the programming scheme
    *Simple examples of how to make Rev apps do something
    *How to learn from the many demo Rev projects
    *Using sounds, graphics, and images in your Rev app

    Computer Game Development:
    *Basic game algorithms
    *Collision detections - distance functions, intersection functions
    *Interaction of Media Objects - determining angles, reacting to 
angles and distance


Presenter: Klaus Major

    A Natural Approach to Problem Solving and the Development of Algorithms:
    *Observing and analyzing real life situations in order to develop 
solutions in Transcript
    *Creating a memory game to demonstrate how the steps necessary to 
solve problems
      are translated into Transcript programming language
    *The Rev engine's confessions - what goes on behind the scene in 
the message hierarchy

Pizza-Pasta & Revolution Discussions
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Sunday 18 April 2004
Presenter: Jan Schenkel

    Building Business Applications with Rev:
    *Database controls
    *Master detail forms
    *Reports and Labels
    *Integrating internet data into your business application
    *Static web pages
    *CGI Scripts with Rev
    *Web Services - SOAP calls in a 3-tier application model

   Group and one-on-one discussions of all things Rev
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Signup Now! Space is limited so first come first serve!

Pricing up to 10 March is:
Hotel two nights (bed & breakfast) & airport transfer & conference is 
only $375.00
Hotel three nights (bed & breakfast) & airport transfer & conference 
is only $435.00

Pricing *after* 10 March is:
Hotel two nights (bed & breakfast) & airport transfer & conference is  $475.00
Hotel three nights (bed & breakfast) & airport transfer & conference 
is  $535.00

For more details... Email   rev at techietours.com


From 3mcgrath at adelphia.net  Tue Feb 24 09:51:04 2004
From: 3mcgrath at adelphia.net (Thomas McGrath III)
Date: Tue, 24 Feb 2004 09:51:04 -0500
Subject: =?iso-8859-1?q?Re=3A_Pb_avec_l=27=E9diteur_de_scripts?=
In-Reply-To: <9C84F276-66D4-11D8-A5BE-000A27B49A96@major-k.de>
References: <1E96B6B5-6641-11D8-9282-000A95AB7040@wanadoo.fr>
	<B82301D2-6654-11D8-A8B8-000A95DA60FA@adelphia.net>
	<7F650B99-66AE-11D8-A5BE-000A27B49A96@major-k.de>
	<DB28AC54-66C9-11D8-A8B8-000A95DA60FA@adelphia.net>
	<9C84F276-66D4-11D8-A5BE-000A27B49A96@major-k.de>
Message-ID: <DED54612-66D8-11D8-A8B8-000A95DA60FA@adelphia.net>

Klaus,

I think that pre-supposes a prejudice must exist. I certainly do not 
have any.
The prejudice is that 'all' Americans expect everyone to speak english. 
This is not true, I don't and all of my friends don't.

I have seen this prejudice (especially against Americans) in my trips 
to Finland, Germany and even England.
And for those Americans that do - shame on them.....

Thanks and good fortune.

Tom
On Feb 24, 2004, at 9:20 AM, Klaus Major wrote:

> I know and understand this, but the posting looked to me like a 
> mockery of someone
> ignorant not being able to understand any another language than 
> english...

Thomas J. McGrath III
SCS
1000 Killarney Dr.
Pittsburgh, PA 15234
412-885-8541


From klaus at major-k.de  Tue Feb 24 10:00:05 2004
From: klaus at major-k.de (Klaus Major)
Date: Tue, 24 Feb 2004 16:00:05 +0100
Subject: =?iso-8859-1?q?Re=3A_Pb_avec_l=27=E9diteur_de_scripts?=
In-Reply-To: <DED54612-66D8-11D8-A8B8-000A95DA60FA@adelphia.net>
References: <1E96B6B5-6641-11D8-9282-000A95AB7040@wanadoo.fr>
	<B82301D2-6654-11D8-A8B8-000A95DA60FA@adelphia.net>
	<7F650B99-66AE-11D8-A5BE-000A27B49A96@major-k.de>
	<DB28AC54-66C9-11D8-A8B8-000A95DA60FA@adelphia.net>
	<9C84F276-66D4-11D8-A5BE-000A27B49A96@major-k.de>
	<DED54612-66D8-11D8-A8B8-000A95DA60FA@adelphia.net>
Message-ID: <21582729-66DA-11D8-A5BE-000A27B49A96@major-k.de>

Hi Thomas McGrath III,

> Klaus,
>
> I think that pre-supposes a prejudice must exist. I certainly do not 
> have any.

I did not say that!

> The prejudice is that 'all' Americans expect everyone to speak english.

How come...? :-)

> This is not true, I don't and all of my friends don't.

I did not say that, too!

I only said that the mail LOOKED to me like this "clichee"!!!
See my mail...

> I have seen this prejudice (especially against Americans) in my trips 
> to Finland,
> Germany and even England.
> And for those Americans that do - shame on them.....

To be honest, most germans cannot even speak german :-)

> Thanks and good fortune.
>
> Tom
> On Feb 24, 2004, at 9:20 AM, Klaus Major wrote:
>
>> I know and understand this, but the posting looked to me like a 
>> mockery of someone
>> ignorant not being able to understand any another language than 
>> english...
>
> Thomas J. McGrath III
> SCS
> 1000 Killarney Dr.
> Pittsburgh, PA 15234
> 412-885-8541

Regards

Klaus Major
klaus at major-k.de
www.major-k.de


From jlrodrig at ariadna.d5.ub.es  Tue Feb 24 09:59:15 2004
From: jlrodrig at ariadna.d5.ub.es (Jose L. Rodriguez Illera)
Date: Tue, 24 Feb 2004 15:59:15 +0100
Subject: concordance of RR stack
Message-ID: <BC612553.AD4E%jlrodrig@ariadna.d5.ub.es>

Nick Thieberger  ha escrito:

>I am writing to ask if anyone has built, or is interested  in
>buidling, a concordance tool for RR. I have a tool (called Audiamus)
>built in RR that links a set of transcripts to their media at the
>sentence level. I would very much like to have a concordance of the
>transcripts, but have no idea how to create a concordance that works
>as  quickly and neatly as FreeText did.

I have a pseudo-concordance tool that calculates the word index, frecuency
and lenght from a text. Then, you may select any word and it calculates all
its contexts with 5 words before and after. If you select one of them it
finds the page where it appears and select the word. May be need small
tunning. I do not know if it is as fast as FreeText, but it is enough for
most uses. 
Only problem: it is inside a substack of a large project for making
educational ebooks  so, if this is similar to what you are looking for, I
may extract the scripts and try to reuse them.

Regards,

Jose Luis Rodriguez



From rcozens at pon.net  Tue Feb 24 08:53:13 2004
From: rcozens at pon.net (Rob Cozens)
Date: Tue, 24 Feb 2004 06:53:13 -0700
Subject: start using & External symbol table PLEASE!!!
In-Reply-To: <20040223225715.55170299D5@xprdmailfe22.nwk.excite.com>
References: <20040223225715.55170299D5@xprdmailfe22.nwk.excite.com>
Message-ID: <a05100300bc61037d0c1e@[66.52.165.190]>

>Has anyone attempted to create a external symbol table?

Only in my head, Kevin.

The model I use as a starting point is the HyperCard utility, 
CompileIt!, written by Tom Pittman.  It was designed as a symbol 
table for compiling HC externals.

CompileIt! shipped with predefined symbols for most Mac OS 9 ToolBox 
calls and  unique parameter & record structure field names.

It also included a window where one can define one's own symbols. 
One enters the symbol name and type, eg:

	Constant
	ROM global variable
	Record field
	External command or function
	Text callback
	Binary callback
	Raw inline code

Other info is entered depending on the symbol type, eg: value for 
constants, variable type & offset for record fields.

Somewhere I have CompileIt! specs for the "glue" required to define 
system calls; but I was never able to fully understand it or define 
any undefined system call that supported call backs.

And, of course, a symbol table stack is worthless unless & until the 
Run Rev team educates the Script Editor/compiler to recognize & use 
it.
-- 

Rob Cozens
CCW, Serendipity Software Company
http://www.oenolog.net/who.htm

"And I, which was two fooles, do so grow three;
Who are a little wise, the best fooles bee."

from "The Triple Foole" by John Donne (1572-1631)

From rcozens at pon.net  Tue Feb 24 09:05:24 2004
From: rcozens at pon.net (Rob Cozens)
Date: Tue, 24 Feb 2004 07:05:24 -0700
Subject: let me rephrase that
In-Reply-To: <72D29247-66CC-11D8-9832-000A9567A3E6@swcp.com>
References: <72D29247-66CC-11D8-9832-000A9567A3E6@swcp.com>
Message-ID: <a05100301bc610a209b69@[66.52.165.190]>

>Still on bugzilla wish list as multidimensional arrays.

FWIW, one can create & manipulate multidimensional arrays fairly 
easily in Transcript using a unique itemDelimiter for each dimension.
-- 

Rob Cozens
CCW, Serendipity Software Company
http://www.oenolog.net/who.htm

"And I, which was two fooles, do so grow three;
Who are a little wise, the best fooles bee."

from "The Triple Foole" by John Donne (1572-1631)

From 3mcgrath at adelphia.net  Tue Feb 24 10:28:37 2004
From: 3mcgrath at adelphia.net (Thomas McGrath III)
Date: Tue, 24 Feb 2004 10:28:37 -0500
Subject: =?iso-8859-1?q?Re=3A_Pb_avec_l=27=E9diteur_de_scripts?=
In-Reply-To: <21582729-66DA-11D8-A5BE-000A27B49A96@major-k.de>
References: <1E96B6B5-6641-11D8-9282-000A95AB7040@wanadoo.fr>
	<B82301D2-6654-11D8-A8B8-000A95DA60FA@adelphia.net>
	<7F650B99-66AE-11D8-A5BE-000A27B49A96@major-k.de>
	<DB28AC54-66C9-11D8-A8B8-000A95DA60FA@adelphia.net>
	<9C84F276-66D4-11D8-A5BE-000A27B49A96@major-k.de>
	<DED54612-66D8-11D8-A8B8-000A95DA60FA@adelphia.net>
	<21582729-66DA-11D8-A5BE-000A27B49A96@major-k.de>
Message-ID: <1DCDE895-66DE-11D8-A8B8-000A95DA60FA@adelphia.net>

Hey Klaus,

Yeah I know, I wasn't saying you did but rather I was commenting on 
what the"cliche" was and my feelings about it.
I think you and I both agree about it. It is a shame that it exists at 
all.

By the way I might be in Europe in April. I am hoping it will coincide 
with the REV Conference there.
I am going to another conference in England about augmented 
communications for handicapped individuals but hope I will have time to 
travel to the REV conf....

If so, I would love to meet you and hear your presentation at the 
conference.

Have a good day,

Tom


On Feb 24, 2004, at 10:00 AM, Klaus Major wrote:

> Hi Thomas McGrath III,
>
>> Klaus,
>>
>> I think that pre-supposes a prejudice must exist. I certainly do not 
>> have any.
>
> I did not say that!
>
>> The prejudice is that 'all' Americans expect everyone to speak 
>> english.
>
> How come...? :-)
>
>> This is not true, I don't and all of my friends don't.
>
> I did not say that, too!
>
> I only said that the mail LOOKED to me like this "clichee"!!!
> See my mail...
>
>> I have seen this prejudice (especially against Americans) in my trips 
>> to Finland,
>> Germany and even England.
>> And for those Americans that do - shame on them.....
>
> To be honest, most germans cannot even speak german :-)
>
>> Thanks and good fortune.
>>
>> Tom
>> On Feb 24, 2004, at 9:20 AM, Klaus Major wrote:
>>
>>> I know and understand this, but the posting looked to me like a 
>>> mockery of someone
>>> ignorant not being able to understand any another language than 
>>> english...
>>
>> Thomas J. McGrath III
>> SCS
>> 1000 Killarney Dr.
>> Pittsburgh, PA 15234
>> 412-885-8541
>
> Regards
>
> Klaus Major
> klaus at major-k.de
> www.major-k.de
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>
>

Thomas J. McGrath III
SCS
1000 Killarney Dr.
Pittsburgh, PA 15234
412-885-8541


From 3mcgrath at adelphia.net  Tue Feb 24 10:31:59 2004
From: 3mcgrath at adelphia.net (Thomas McGrath III)
Date: Tue, 24 Feb 2004 10:31:59 -0500
Subject: let me rephrase that
In-Reply-To: <a05100301bc610a209b69@[66.52.165.190]>
References: <72D29247-66CC-11D8-9832-000A9567A3E6@swcp.com>
	<a05100301bc610a209b69@[66.52.165.190]>
Message-ID: <95DD7C4E-66DE-11D8-A8B8-000A95DA60FA@adelphia.net>

Rob,

Can you explain that a little more? I am interested.

Right now I am thinking what I need is more XML like but want to be 
able to use the tools available for arrays,variables more than those 
for XML.

Do you have a way to explain it more?

Thanks

Tom

On Feb 24, 2004, at 9:05 AM, Rob Cozens wrote:

>> Still on bugzilla wish list as multidimensional arrays.
>
> FWIW, one can create & manipulate multidimensional arrays fairly 
> easily in Transcript using a unique itemDelimiter for each dimension.
> -- 
>
> Rob Cozens
> CCW, Serendipity Software Company
> http://www.oenolog.net/who.htm
>
> "And I, which was two fooles, do so grow three;
> Who are a little wise, the best fooles bee."
>
> from "The Triple Foole" by John Donne (1572-1631)
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>
>

Thomas J. McGrath III
SCS
1000 Killarney Dr.
Pittsburgh, PA 15234
412-885-8541


From rcozens at pon.net  Tue Feb 24 09:19:52 2004
From: rcozens at pon.net (Rob Cozens)
Date: Tue, 24 Feb 2004 07:19:52 -0700
Subject: Choices, Choices, Choices
In-Reply-To: <B03BB846-6678-11D8-A8B8-000A95DA60FA@adelphia.net>
References: <B03BB846-6678-11D8-A8B8-000A95DA60FA@adelphia.net>
Message-ID: <a05100302bc610aeacae5@[66.52.165.190]>

>I have hundreds of buttons. In groups of about 130 each.
>Each button has three states: Available to hit, Not-available to hit 
>and mouseDown once hit.
>I need to set the available/not-available state depending on the 
>other buttons.

Morning, Tom.

Unless you are using them for other purposes, each button has 
properties you can use to store this information: eg: 
enabled/disabled, hilited, armed, and visited.

If "not-available to hit" means the button does not respond to mouse 
events, then available/not available can = enabled/disabled.  The 
visited property could be used to store "mouseDown once hit"  If a 
"not-available to hit" button must respond to mouseEvents, one could 
store "Available to hit" in the hilite property and "not-available to 
hit" in the armed property.  If available/not available are opposite 
boolean states of the same property, one needs only one property to 
toggle on or off.

Then one needs only to check the property of buttons upon which the 
target button depends to determine how to set the target button's 
properties.
-- 

Rob Cozens
CCW, Serendipity Software Company
http://www.oenolog.net/who.htm

"And I, which was two fooles, do so grow three;
Who are a little wise, the best fooles bee."

from "The Triple Foole" by John Donne (1572-1631)

From kray at sonsothunder.com  Tue Feb 24 10:31:03 2004
From: kray at sonsothunder.com (Ken Ray)
Date: Tue, 24 Feb 2004 09:31:03 -0600
Subject: start using 
In-Reply-To: <20040224143347.B0BE7B736@xprdmailfe15.nwk.excite.com>
Message-ID: <013b01c3faeb$399ffa30$6601a8c0@LightningFlash>

Kevin,

When you use a relative location, it is relative to where the Revolution
engine is running. You can determine what that is by getting "the
directory" and seeing where it points to. To change the directory so it
is in the same folder as your currently running stack in the IDE, you
can execute this:

on preOpenStack
  set the directory to MyFolderPath(the filename of this stack)
end preOpenStack

function MyFolderPath pPath
  local tDir
  get matchText(pPath,"(.*\/)",tDir)
  return tDir
end MyFolderPath

-- BTW: The MyFolderPath function above uses regular expressions; if you
don't like/use regex you can do this instead:

function MyFolderPath pPath
  set the itemDel to "/"
  put (item 1 to -2 of pPath) & "/" into tDir
  return tDir
end MyFolderPath

HTH,

Ken Ray
Sons of Thunder Software
Email: kray at sonsothunder.com
Web Site: http://www.sonsothunder.com/ 

> -----Original Message-----
> From: use-revolution-bounces at lists.runrev.com 
> [mailto:use-revolution-bounces at lists.runrev.com] On Behalf Of Kevin
> Sent: Tuesday, February 24, 2004 8:34 AM
> To: use-revolution at runrev.com
> Subject: RE: start using 
> 
> 
> 
> I could be doing one of those dumb user/developer tricks so 
> please forgive in advace if this is stupid.  I attempted last 
> night to put in the preOpen the following.
> 
> 
> start using "../common/libMine.rev" 
> 
> start: can't find object
> libGraph
> start using "../common/libMine.rev" 
> "/Users/kevin/src/transcript/graph/libGraph.rev
> 
> and 
> 
> start using stack "../common/libMine.rev"
> 
> Error 
> 
> Chunk: can't find stack
> libGraph
> start using stack "../common/libMine.rev"
> stack "/Users/kevin/src/transcript/graph/libGraph.rev"
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Join Excite! - http://www.excite.com
> The most personalized portal on the Web! 
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com 
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-> revolution
> 



From jimlyons at earthlink.net  Tue Feb 24 10:41:34 2004
From: jimlyons at earthlink.net (Jim Lyons)
Date: Tue, 24 Feb 2004 10:41:34 -0500
Subject: Pitch shifting sounds
Message-ID: <EC97A1B6-66DF-11D8-949E-000A95893982@earthlink.net>

One of my students (age 11, more background below if you're interested) 
wants to make a sound/music program. He wants to know how to change the 
pitch of a recorded sound, like we could do in HC. For example, to 
record "Doo" and then be able to play a scale with it. I'm pretty sure 
there is no capability to do this directly in Rev (or is there?) but 
are there externals to accomplish this? Any help on this or other 
related sound functions would be appreciated.

(More background on us: I get to tutor two advanced middle school 
students who are interested in programming, and in computer 
applications in scientific research. I had their parents buy them Rev 
back when it was $99 for an express license and they have really taken 
off with it. We developed a program last semester to run 1- and 
2-dimensional cellular automata and they found some amazing things on 
their own with it. They showed their results at a presentation at the 
university here, demonstrating it live on Revolution, which I thought 
was much cooler than all the other fancy PowerPoints we had to sit 
through. We are continuing the project this semester and are developing 
a program to investigate multi-state CA. The student mentioned above 
has also made a good start at game programming on his own; he knows 
more about how Geoff Canyon's battle game works than I do. I just can't 
say enough about how great Rev is for teaching, and for getting 
students interested in how things work, and empowering them to go where 
they want with it. Keep it up RunRev, and don't forget about these kids 
with very few resources -- they'll be your customers and evangelists in 
a few years.)

Jim Lyons


From pixelbird at interisland.net  Tue Feb 24 10:59:00 2004
From: pixelbird at interisland.net (Ken Norris)
Date: Tue, 24 Feb 2004 07:59:00 -0800
Subject: Scrolling a Card? MouseMove solution
In-Reply-To: <20040224105216.CF40A930085@mail.runrev.com>
Message-ID: <BC60B4C4.525F%pixelbird@interisland.net>



P.S....
> 
> Date: Mon, 23 Feb 2004 21:58:49 -0800
> From: Ken Norris <pixelbird at interisland.net>
> Subject: Re: Scrolling a Card? MouseMove solution

Also:
Thanks to Dar for time andconsideration.

Ken N.


From rcozens at pon.net  Tue Feb 24 10:13:30 2004
From: rcozens at pon.net (Rob Cozens)
Date: Tue, 24 Feb 2004 08:13:30 -0700
Subject: let me rephrase that
In-Reply-To: <95DD7C4E-66DE-11D8-A8B8-000A95DA60FA@adelphia.net>
References: <72D29247-66CC-11D8-9832-000A9567A3E6@swcp.com>
 <a05100301bc610a209b69@[66.52.165.190]>
 <95DD7C4E-66DE-11D8-A8B8-000A95DA60FA@adelphia.net>
Message-ID: <a05100300bc61113e477b@[66.52.165.29]>

>Do you have a way to explain it more?

Tom,

First & easiest: One can construct a three dimensional array with 
words, items, and lines: word z of item y of line x of myArray = 
myArray[x,y,z].

Of course this supposed the contents of myArray do not include space, 
comma, or return.  And this will not work for arrays with empty 
elements, as an empty word is non sequitur in xTalks.

Something more robust and supporting more dimensions would go along 
the lines of:

on setArrayValue @theArray,theValue,dimension1,dimension2,dimension3,dimension4
	put numToChar(28) into dimension1Delimiter
	put numToChar(29) into dimension2Delimiter
	put numToChar(30) into dimension3Delimiter
	put numToChar(31) into dimension4Delimiter
	set the itemDelimiter to dimension1Delimiter
	put item dimension1 of theArray into firstDimension
	set the itemDelimiter to dimension2Delimiter
	put item dimension2 of firstDimension into secondDimension
	set the itemDelimiter to dimension3Delimiter
	put item dimension3 of secondDimension into thirdDimension
	set the itemDelimiter to dimension4Delimiter
	put theValue into item dimension4 of thirdDimension
	set the itemDelimiter to dimension3Delimiter
	put thirdDimension into item dimension3 of secondDimension
	set the itemDelimiter to dimension2Delimiter
	put secondDimension into item dimension2 of firstDimension
	set the itemDelimiter to dimension1Delimiter
	put firstDimension into item dimension1 of theArray
end setArrayValue

function theArrayValue @theArray,dimension1,dimension2,dimension3,dimension4
	put numToChar(28) into dimension1Delimiter
	put numToChar(29) into dimension2Delimiter
	put numToChar(30) into dimension3Delimiter
	put numToChar(31) into dimension4Delimiter
	set the itemDelimiter to dimension1Delimiter
	put item dimension1 of theArray into firstDimension
	set the itemDelimiter to dimension2Delimiter
	put item dimension2 of firstDimension into secondDimension
	set the itemDelimiter to dimension3Delimiter
	put item dimension3 of secondDimension into thirdDimension
	set the itemDelimiter to dimension4Delimiter
	return item dimension4 of thirdDimension
end theArrayValue

A couple of notes:

If I used multi-dimension arrays to any extent, I would refine the above:

* Dimension delimiters could be passed or stored in a local or global variable

* Handlers could be generalized to handle as many dimensions as are 
passed to them

* The logic seems to me a prime candidate for recursion.

Note that if one is dealing with numeric arrays (ie: content is 
limited to "0" - "9", plus "." & "-"), all other characters are 
available as delimiters; so one could in theory support numeric 
arrays of over 200 dimensions.
-- 

Rob Cozens
CCW, Serendipity Software Company
http://www.oenolog.net/who.htm
2
"And I, which was two fooles, do so grow three;
Who are a little wise, the best fooles bee."

from "The Triple Foole" by John Donne (1572-1631)

From klaus at major-k.de  Tue Feb 24 11:20:56 2004
From: klaus at major-k.de (Klaus Major)
Date: Tue, 24 Feb 2004 17:20:56 +0100
Subject: Pitch shifting sounds
In-Reply-To: <EC97A1B6-66DF-11D8-949E-000A95893982@earthlink.net>
References: <EC97A1B6-66DF-11D8-949E-000A95893982@earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <6C7CFC8F-66E5-11D8-A5BE-000A27B49A96@major-k.de>

Hi Jim,

> One of my students (age 11, more background below if you're 
> interested) wants to make a sound/music program. He wants to know how 
> to change the pitch of a recorded sound, like we could do in HC. For 
> example, to record "Doo" and then be able to play a scale with it. I'm 
> pretty sure there is no capability to do this directly in Rev (or is 
> there?) but are there externals to accomplish this? Any help on this 
> or other related sound functions would be appreciated.

Hmm, there is "the playrate" property of players, that will let you 
speed-up/slow-down the playback
of a player...

Not much, but maybe a start... ;-)

> (More background on us: I get to tutor two advanced middle school 
> students who are interested in programming, and in computer 
> applications in scientific research. I had their parents buy them Rev 
> back when it was $99 for an express license and they have really taken 
> off with it. We developed a program last semester to run 1- and 
> 2-dimensional cellular automata and they found some amazing things on 
> their own with it. They showed their results at a presentation at the 
> university here, demonstrating it live on Revolution, which I thought 
> was much cooler than all the other fancy PowerPoints we had to sit 
> through.

Definitively :-)

> We are continuing the project this semester and are developing a 
> program to investigate multi-state CA. The student mentioned above has 
> also made a good start at game programming on his own; he knows more 
> about how Geoff Canyon's battle game works than I do. I just can't say 
> enough about how great Rev is for teaching, and for getting students 
> interested in how things work, and empowering them to go where they 
> want with it. Keep it up RunRev, and don't forget about these kids 
> with very few resources -- they'll be your customers and evangelists 
> in a few years.)
>
> Jim Lyons

Regards

Klaus Major
klaus at major-k.de
www.major-k.de


From revolution at jaedworks.com  Tue Feb 24 11:21:19 2004
From: revolution at jaedworks.com (Jeanne A. E. DeVoto)
Date: Tue, 24 Feb 2004 08:21:19 -0800
Subject: put URL "the Address" and get a directory?
In-Reply-To: <1g9nlk3.42rfd11bhxptuM%mcdomi@free.fr>
References: <1g9nlk3.42rfd11bhxptuM%mcdomi@free.fr>
Message-ID: <p060102d6bc6129627d07@[10.0.1.8]>

At 9:16 AM +0100 2/24/2004, Dom wrote:
>drwxr-xr-x   6 web site      144 Feb 23 16:21 .
>drwxr-xr-x   3 web site       72 Feb 12 19:30 ..
>drwxr-xr-x   3 web site      104 Feb 12 19:30 06
>drwxr-xr-x   2 web site       80 Feb 10 14:34 10
>drwxr-xr-x   2 web site       80 Feb 13 18:00 13
>drwxr-xr-x   2 web site       80 Feb 23 15:59 23
>
>I understand that the last "word" is the directory...
>(e.g. I really have 4 directories, "06" "10" "13" and "23")
>
>The first "word" shows the permissions
>Word -3 to -2: date & time
>
>What are the other words?

The details depend on what the server is sending, so it's best to 
check the documentation for that system for exact info. This is 
probably:
- permissions
- number of links (items in the directory, most likely)
- owner
- group owner
- size of the directory or file
- modification date
- name
-- 
jeanne a. e. devoto ~ jaed at jaedworks.com
http://www.jaedworks.com

From pixelbird at interisland.net  Tue Feb 24 11:22:00 2004
From: pixelbird at interisland.net (Ken Norris)
Date: Tue, 24 Feb 2004 08:22:00 -0800
Subject: Choices, Choices, Choices
In-Reply-To: <20040224132249.BF88B9300A1@mail.runrev.com>
Message-ID: <BC60BA28.5261%pixelbird@interisland.net>

Hi Thomas,

> Date: Tue, 24 Feb 2004 08:09:27 -0500
> From: Thomas McGrath III <3mcgrath at adelphia.net>
> Subject: Re: Choices, Choices, Choices

> I can see how the repeats would work with
> building the 1&"_ddd" etc. But is there another way to do it with
> arrays?
-----------
That's why I suggested looking at the 'offset' function. If each delimited
entry is unique, all you need is a number, char, or word in a list. It's
much faster than scanning the whole thing with a repeat loop or a find.

HTH,
Ken N.


From scott at tactilemedia.com  Tue Feb 24 11:59:22 2004
From: scott at tactilemedia.com (Scott Rossi)
Date: Tue, 24 Feb 2004 08:59:22 -0800
Subject: trying to keep up to date with the list, bits and bobs
In-Reply-To: <157.2e7dd15e.2d6cb64b@aol.com>
Message-ID: <BC60C2EA.A57C%scott@tactilemedia.com>

On 2/24/04 6:14 AM, "DVGlasgow at aol.com" <DVGlasgow at aol.com> wrote:

> I am *still* having odd problems with Win XP that I can't nail, that
> don't happen on any other Win OS or Mac classic (dunno about X, I am still
> too scared to switch).  The one I heard about today is that a button that is
> 'shown' on opencard or via a tab click doesn't show on XP.  Same install on
> earlier Wins (& Mac) works fine.

It's a long shot, and I haven't experienced the issue on XP myself, but you
might look here:

 http://lists.runrev.com/pipermail/use-revolution/2004-February/031289.html

Regards,

Scott Rossi
Creative Director
Tactile Media, Development & Design
-----
E: scott at tactilemedia.com
W: http://www.tactilemedia.com


From 3mcgrath at adelphia.net  Tue Feb 24 12:04:29 2004
From: 3mcgrath at adelphia.net (Thomas McGrath III)
Date: Tue, 24 Feb 2004 12:04:29 -0500
Subject: Choices, Choices, Choices
In-Reply-To: <BC60BA28.5261%pixelbird@interisland.net>
References: <BC60BA28.5261%pixelbird@interisland.net>
Message-ID: <823CF5BD-66EB-11D8-A8B8-000A95DA60FA@adelphia.net>

Ken,

Only thing is there will be spaces in the items. I thought line, word, 
items could not handle spaces?

Tom

On Feb 24, 2004, at 11:22 AM, Ken Norris wrote:

> Hi Thomas,
>
>> Date: Tue, 24 Feb 2004 08:09:27 -0500
>> From: Thomas McGrath III <3mcgrath at adelphia.net>
>> Subject: Re: Choices, Choices, Choices
>
>> I can see how the repeats would work with
>> building the 1&"_ddd" etc. But is there another way to do it with
>> arrays?
> -----------
> That's why I suggested looking at the 'offset' function. If each 
> delimited
> entry is unique, all you need is a number, char, or word in a list. 
> It's
> much faster than scanning the whole thing with a repeat loop or a find.
>
> HTH,
> Ken N.
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>
>

Thomas J. McGrath III
SCS
1000 Killarney Dr.
Pittsburgh, PA 15234
412-885-8541


From alex at mindlube.com  Tue Feb 24 12:30:07 2004
From: alex at mindlube.com (Alex Rice)
Date: Tue, 24 Feb 2004 10:30:07 -0700
Subject: trying to keep up to date with the list, bits and bobs
In-Reply-To: <157.2e7dd15e.2d6cb64b@aol.com>
References: <157.2e7dd15e.2d6cb64b@aol.com>
Message-ID: <16EB3B1B-66EF-11D8-B3F3-000393C4760A@mindlube.com>


On Feb 24, 2004, at 7:14 AM, DVGlasgow at aol.com wrote:

> My news is I have been invited  by a pretty big cheese in the busines 
> to
> Alburquerque (is that how you spell it?) in October to showcase my sex 
> offender
> assessment tool developed with runrev.  Woo hoo!.  Nearly famous.  Now 
> how do I
> get there from East Lancashire?

David, I'm in Santa Fe, near Albuquerque. Dar Scott, also on this list, 
is in Albuquerque.

Congrats about your demo opportunity. Let me know if you need any help 
locally ; directions, recommendations, etc.

How to get there from East Lancashire? Turn right at Stonehenge, I 
guess ;-)

>
> I want to do a better 'about box', but find the provided 'made with 
> Runtime'
> images appear rather blurry - has anyone got any suggestions for a nice
> professional about box?  A bit of a vague request, I know,  but I'll 
> bet there are
> some favourite techniques out there.

Have you looked in Revolution/Made With Logos/Graphics?
There should be some good graphics to use in there.

--
Alex Rice | Mindlube Software | http://mindlube.com


From frank at backtalk.com  Tue Feb 24 12:33:14 2004
From: frank at backtalk.com (Frank Leahy)
Date: Tue, 24 Feb 2004 17:33:14 +0000
Subject: Choices, Choices, Choices
In-Reply-To: <20040224132249.E3CD49300A5@mail.runrev.com>
Message-ID: <8645CFD6-66EF-11D8-A349-000A9580FCCE@backtalk.com>


On Tuesday, February 24, 2004, at 01:22  PM, 
use-revolution-request at lists.runrev.com wrote:

> Date: Tue, 24 Feb 2004 08:09:27 -0500
> From: Thomas McGrath III <3mcgrath at adelphia.net>
> Subject: Re: Choices, Choices, Choices
> To: How to use Revolution <use-revolution at lists.runrev.com>
> Message-ID: <ACE18847-66CA-11D8-A8B8-000A95DA60FA at adelphia.net>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed
>
> Frank,
>
> After looking at the code again I see that each Set of info is named
> differently 1_ and 2_... It seems then that I would need to keep
> another array of those keys and which button number they apply to.
>
> Is there another way to do that? Because in an item del situation I
> would refer to item 1 every time regardless of what was in it. instead
> using key(1_ddd) and key(2_ddd) etc all for item 1's which are the main
> names of each set of items. I can see how the repeats would work with
> building the 1&"_ddd" etc. But is there another way to do it with
> arrays?
>
> Thanks
>
> Tom
>

The array names can be anything you want.  For example, if you've got 
buttons named "A", "B", "C", ..., "AA", "BB", "CC", ... you might use

myArray["A_date"]
myArray["B_date"]
...
myArray["AA_date"]
...

where each array key is a concatenation of the button name (A, B, C, 
...) and the data name (date, title, ....).  When you want a piece of 
data for a particular button you simply concat the button name with the 
field name and use that as the array index.

For example:

put the name of me into myName
put myArray[myName & "_date"] into theDate

And of course the reason you want to use a "_" between the button name 
and the data name is so it's easy to parse -- item 1 is the button 
name, item 2 is the data name -- if you use the keys property to 
iterate through all the array keys.

As to how you should name things in your particular situation, you need 
to do an analysis of your data needs both on disk and at runtime, and 
think through the kinds of loops you'll be doing on each keypress or 
other user interaction.  Only then will you know the best way to name 
items in the array(s) for both storing and retrieving data.

Good luck,
-- Frank



From klaus at major-k.de  Tue Feb 24 12:43:21 2004
From: klaus at major-k.de (Klaus Major)
Date: Tue, 24 Feb 2004 18:43:21 +0100
Subject: trying to keep up to date with the list, bits and bobs
In-Reply-To: <16EB3B1B-66EF-11D8-B3F3-000393C4760A@mindlube.com>
References: <157.2e7dd15e.2d6cb64b@aol.com>
	<16EB3B1B-66EF-11D8-B3F3-000393C4760A@mindlube.com>
Message-ID: <F073F39C-66F0-11D8-A5BE-000A27B49A96@major-k.de>

Hi Alex,

> ...
> Have you looked in Revolution/Made With Logos/Graphics?
> There should be some good graphics to use in there.

Hmmm, don't try the EPS files....

They do NOT contain the "outlined" font they were using here,
so opening them in Photoshop renders a "beautiful" courier...

Read, the EPS files are useless, unfortunately :-(

> Alex Rice | Mindlube Software | http://mindlube.com

Regards

Klaus Major
klaus at major-k.de
www.major-k.de


From Leraillez at netinfo.fr  Tue Feb 24 13:01:54 2004
From: Leraillez at netinfo.fr (Leraillez Benoit)
Date: Tue, 24 Feb 2004 19:01:54 +0100
Subject: concordance of RR stack
In-Reply-To: <BC612553.AD4E%jlrodrig@ariadna.d5.ub.es>
Message-ID: <BC615022.1677A%Leraillez@netinfo.fr>

Le 24/02/04 15:59, ??Jose L. Rodriguez Illera?? <jlrodrig at ariadna.d5.ub.es>
a ?crit?:

> I have a pseudo-concordance tool that calculates the word index, frecuency
> and lenght from a text. Then, you may select any word and it calculates all
> its contexts with 5 words before and after. If you select one of them it
> finds the page where it appears and select the word. May be need small
> tunning. I do not know if it is as fast as FreeText, but it is enough for
> most uses. 

  If you're interested we have a text analysis code that brings strings to
their dictionary entries (singular or infinitive form). It does so by first
going through a grammar analysis of the phrase to tell if a string is a verb
or noun or... (like "end" in English or "partie" in French, Spanish and
German version are in the works). We use it to index documents on what they
"talk about" purging text of redundant information necessary for human to
human comprehension (I love to read Shannon & Weaver?;-).

  For example the preceding paragraph could be resumed to only nouns due to
it's length and still keep its subject for future search: text analysis code
string dictionary form grammar phrase verb noun end English French Spanish
German version work document information human comprehension Shannon Weaver.
The only meaningful strings missing when you limit to only nouns are verbs
and adjectives which in the example would have been "singular, infinitive
and index" but you also leave out "be, have, love, read, like, go..." that
are rarely searched for, so it is the master's decision to know what he
wants to index.

  Another thing concerning French nouns, a lot don?t have an "s" for a
plural form but a totally different string. And bringing everything back to
singular form assures that people looking for an "oeil" (eye) will also find
documents about "yeux" (eyes).

-- 
Beno?t Leraillez

Souvenez-vous qu'on peut ?tre herm?tique -- et ne rien renfermer. N'oubliez
pas qu'herm?tique cela veut dire aussi ??bouch????! (S. Guitry)


From alex at mindlube.com  Tue Feb 24 13:18:49 2004
From: alex at mindlube.com (Alex Rice)
Date: Tue, 24 Feb 2004 11:18:49 -0700
Subject: trying to keep up to date with the list, bits and bobs
In-Reply-To: <F073F39C-66F0-11D8-A5BE-000A27B49A96@major-k.de>
References: <157.2e7dd15e.2d6cb64b@aol.com>
	<16EB3B1B-66EF-11D8-B3F3-000393C4760A@mindlube.com>
	<F073F39C-66F0-11D8-A5BE-000A27B49A96@major-k.de>
Message-ID: <E474A4A8-66F5-11D8-B3F3-000393C4760A@mindlube.com>


On Feb 24, 2004, at 10:43 AM, Klaus Major wrote:

>
> Hmmm, don't try the EPS files....
>
> They do NOT contain the "outlined" font they were using here,
> so opening them in Photoshop renders a "beautiful" courier...
>
> Read, the EPS files are useless, unfortunately :-(

Looks like the .swf files are the same way. Although they display OK, 
when I open one up in Flash, it says it's Gil Sans "Bold 
ExtraCondensed" which doesn't exist on my system.

Maybe Photoshop or Illustrator can make a condensed Gil Sans.


--
Alex Rice | Mindlube Software | http://mindlube.com


From nnoydb at excite.com  Tue Feb 24 14:44:29 2004
From: nnoydb at excite.com (Kevin)
Date: Tue, 24 Feb 2004 14:44:29 -0500 (EST)
Subject: start using 
Message-ID: <20040224194429.0BCB6B71E@xprdmailfe19.nwk.excite.com>


What affect if any will changing the default directory and executing a "start using" have on the creation of a stand alone?  Is preOpenCard/start using dropped when a stand alone is built?



Kevin


_______________________________________________
Join Excite! - http://www.excite.com
The most personalized portal on the Web!

From frank at backtalk.com  Tue Feb 24 15:03:36 2004
From: frank at backtalk.com (Frank Leahy)
Date: Tue, 24 Feb 2004 20:03:36 +0000
Subject: Choices, Choices, Choices
In-Reply-To: <20040224132249.E3CD49300A5@mail.runrev.com>
Message-ID: <87F2EC02-6704-11D8-A349-000A9580FCCE@backtalk.com>


On Tuesday, February 24, 2004, at 01:22  PM, 
use-revolution-request at lists.runrev.com wrote:

> Date: Tue, 24 Feb 2004 08:09:27 -0500
> From: Thomas McGrath III <3mcgrath at adelphia.net>
> Subject: Re: Choices, Choices, Choices
> To: How to use Revolution <use-revolution at lists.runrev.com>
> Message-ID: <ACE18847-66CA-11D8-A8B8-000A95DA60FA at adelphia.net>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed
>
> Frank,
>
> After looking at the code again I see that each Set of info is named
> differently 1_ and 2_... It seems then that I would need to keep
> another array of those keys and which button number they apply to.
>
> Is there another way to do that? Because in an item del situation I
> would refer to item 1 every time regardless of what was in it. instead
> using key(1_ddd) and key(2_ddd) etc all for item 1's which are the main
> names of each set of items. I can see how the repeats would work with
> building the 1&"_ddd" etc. But is there another way to do it with
> arrays?
>
> Thanks
>
> Tom
>

The array names can be anything you want.  For example, if you've got 
buttons named "A", "B", "C", ..., "AA", "BB", "CC", ... you might use

myArray["A_date"]
myArray["B_date"]
...
myArray["AA_date"]
...

where each array key is a concatenation of the button name (A, B, C, 
...) and the data name (date, title, ....).  When you want a piece of 
data for a particular button you simply concat the button name with the 
field name and use that as the array index.

For example:

put the name of me into myName
put myArray[myName & "_date"] into theDate

And of course the reason you want to use a "_" between the button name 
and the data name is so it's easy to separate the name and the field if 
you need to iterate through the array keys.

As to how you should name things in your particular situation, you need 
to do an analysis of your data needs both on disk and at runtime, and 
think through the kinds of loops you'll be doing on each keypress or 
other user interaction.  Only then will you know the best way to name 
items in the array(s) for storing and retrieving data.

Good luck,
-- Frank
Weblog: http://cornwall.backtalk.com


From jacque at hyperactivesw.com  Tue Feb 24 15:27:40 2004
From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay)
Date: Tue, 24 Feb 2004 14:27:40 -0600
Subject: trying to keep up to date with the list, bits and bobs
In-Reply-To: <157.2e7dd15e.2d6cb64b@aol.com>
References: <157.2e7dd15e.2d6cb64b@aol.com>
Message-ID: <403BB3BC.6090609@hyperactivesw.com>

On 2/24/04 8:14 AM, DVGlasgow at aol.com wrote:

> Finally, Finally.  In all the posts I missed, has any clue been left 
> regarding when the Rev 2 manuals I paid for long ago will actually turn up?

They are shipping right now, and we expect the backlog to be processed 
within the next 2-3 days. Please allow ten days to 2 weeks for delivery. 
A large number are already travelling within the postal system, on their 
way to their destinations.

We meant to ship a bit earlier, but had to change printers at the last 
minute and it caused (yet another) delay. Apologies. We now have a 
system set up where new orders will ship almost immediately and delays 
should be a thing of the past.

-- 
Jacqueline Landman Gay         |     jacque at hyperactivesw.com
HyperActive Software           |     http://www.hyperactivesw.com

From rcozens at pon.net  Tue Feb 24 14:37:17 2004
From: rcozens at pon.net (Rob Cozens)
Date: Tue, 24 Feb 2004 12:37:17 -0700
Subject: Choices, Choices, Choices
In-Reply-To: <823CF5BD-66EB-11D8-A8B8-000A95DA60FA@adelphia.net>
References: <BC60BA28.5261%pixelbird@interisland.net>
 <823CF5BD-66EB-11D8-A8B8-000A95DA60FA@adelphia.net>
Message-ID: <a05100300bc6156d15528@[66.52.165.29]>

>Only thing is there will be spaces in the items

Spaces in items is OK; spaces in words is non sequitur, Tom.

If you start with an empty field,

'put "some info" into line 100 of field "Empty Field"' puts 99 
returns & "some info" into the field

Likewise,

'put "some info" into item 100 of field "Empty Field"' puts 99 commas 
& "some info" into the field

Howowever,

'put "some info" into word 100 of field "Empty Field"' does not put 
99 spaces before "some info".

-- 

Rob Cozens
CCW, Serendipity Software Company
http://www.oenolog.net/who.htm

"And I, which was two fooles, do so grow three;
Who are a little wise, the best fooles bee."

from "The Triple Foole" by John Donne (1572-1631)

From rcozens at pon.net  Tue Feb 24 14:56:55 2004
From: rcozens at pon.net (Rob Cozens)
Date: Tue, 24 Feb 2004 12:56:55 -0700
Subject: start using
In-Reply-To: <20040224194429.0BCB6B71E@xprdmailfe19.nwk.excite.com>
References: <20040224194429.0BCB6B71E@xprdmailfe19.nwk.excite.com>
Message-ID: <a05100301bc615929e212@[66.52.165.29]>

>What affect if any will changing the default directory and executing 
>a "start using" have on the creation of a stand alone?  Is 
>preOpenCard/start using dropped when a stand alone is built?

Kevin,

In some cases, the effective file path for a library may be different 
from the point of view of your standalone than the path to the same 
library from the point of view of the source stack.

The most obvious issue occurs in Mac OS X, where the elements of the 
application bundle are inserted into the file path.

There are also issues in some Windows installations where the library 
or modifiable stacks cannot reside in the same folder as the 
application.

I deal with this with a file search handler that looks in multiple 
locations (some platform dependent) to find the library stack.

Also, check out the specialFolderPath function, which allows one to 
address a folder whose name is unknown.

preOpenCard, and any handler in your source script, is available to 
your standalone EXCEPT logic to modify a script with more than 
scriptLimits lines.

BTW, Kevin, in case you haven't noticed, your library routines are 
not linked to your standalone: they are resolved a runtime.  If an 
application design called for it, one could switch between different 
library stacks at runtime to change application appearance (a library 
can contain images & icons as well as handlers) and/or functionality.
-- 

Rob Cozens
CCW, Serendipity Software Company
http://www.oenolog.net/who.htm

"And I, which was two fooles, do so grow three;
Who are a little wise, the best fooles bee."

from "The Triple Foole" by John Donne (1572-1631)

From ian at azurevision.co.uk  Tue Feb 24 16:25:32 2004
From: ian at azurevision.co.uk (Ian Wood)
Date: Tue, 24 Feb 2004 21:25:32 +0000
Subject: trying to keep up to date with the list, bits and bobs
In-Reply-To: <E474A4A8-66F5-11D8-B3F3-000393C4760A@mindlube.com>
References: <157.2e7dd15e.2d6cb64b@aol.com>
	<16EB3B1B-66EF-11D8-B3F3-000393C4760A@mindlube.com>
	<F073F39C-66F0-11D8-A5BE-000A27B49A96@major-k.de>
	<E474A4A8-66F5-11D8-B3F3-000393C4760A@mindlube.com>
Message-ID: <FA126E30-670F-11D8-9B9E-0003935A2896@azurevision.co.uk>

>> Hmmm, don't try the EPS files....
>>
>> They do NOT contain the "outlined" font they were using here,
>> so opening them in Photoshop renders a "beautiful" courier...
>>
>> Read, the EPS files are useless, unfortunately :-(
>
> Looks like the .swf files are the same way. Although they display OK, 
> when I open one up in Flash, it says it's Gil Sans "Bold 
> ExtraCondensed" which doesn't exist on my system.
>
> Maybe Photoshop or Illustrator can make a condensed Gil Sans.
>

I have Gill Sans, I'll have a go at opening them and embedding the 
fonts in the morning.

Ian


From ian at azurevision.co.uk  Tue Feb 24 16:33:59 2004
From: ian at azurevision.co.uk (Ian Wood)
Date: Tue, 24 Feb 2004 21:33:59 +0000
Subject: trying to keep up to date with the list, bits and bobs
In-Reply-To: <FA126E30-670F-11D8-9B9E-0003935A2896@azurevision.co.uk>
References: <157.2e7dd15e.2d6cb64b@aol.com>
	<16EB3B1B-66EF-11D8-B3F3-000393C4760A@mindlube.com>
	<F073F39C-66F0-11D8-A5BE-000A27B49A96@major-k.de>
	<E474A4A8-66F5-11D8-B3F3-000393C4760A@mindlube.com>
	<FA126E30-670F-11D8-9B9E-0003935A2896@azurevision.co.uk>
Message-ID: <285CF50A-6711-11D8-9B9E-0003935A2896@azurevision.co.uk>


On 24 Feb 2004, at 21:25, Ian Wood wrote:

>>> Hmmm, don't try the EPS files....
>>>
>>> They do NOT contain the "outlined" font they were using here,
>>> so opening them in Photoshop renders a "beautiful" courier...
>>>
>>> Read, the EPS files are useless, unfortunately :-(
>>
>> Looks like the .swf files are the same way. Although they display OK, 
>> when I open one up in Flash, it says it's Gil Sans "Bold 
>> ExtraCondensed" which doesn't exist on my system.
>>
>> Maybe Photoshop or Illustrator can make a condensed Gil Sans.
>>
>
> I have Gill Sans, I'll have a go at opening them and embedding the 
> fonts in the morning.
>
> Ian
>

Actually, make that 'I have every version of Gill except the one 
embedded in the document'.

Looks like someone from Rev might need to do this.

ian


From johnrule at rcsprogramming.com  Tue Feb 24 16:42:51 2004
From: johnrule at rcsprogramming.com (John Rule)
Date: Tue, 24 Feb 2004 13:42:51 -0800
Subject: Icon in menu or icon in field?
References: <20040224132249.E3CD49300A5@mail.runrev.com>
Message-ID: <000701c3fb1f$299a4580$8601000a@rcsserver>

I thought I read somewhere that you can either use an icon in a menu, or in
a text field, or both...was I dreaming? It was something like putting the
"/" char or "&" before the item or line.

Thanks,
JR


From klaus at major-k.de  Tue Feb 24 17:00:49 2004
From: klaus at major-k.de (Klaus Major)
Date: Tue, 24 Feb 2004 23:00:49 +0100
Subject: Icon in menu or icon in field?
In-Reply-To: <000701c3fb1f$299a4580$8601000a@rcsserver>
References: <20040224132249.E3CD49300A5@mail.runrev.com>
	<000701c3fb1f$299a4580$8601000a@rcsserver>
Message-ID: <E7D1ECA8-6714-11D8-A5BE-000A27B49A96@major-k.de>

Hi John,

> I thought I read somewhere that you can either use an icon in a menu, 
> or in
> a text field, or both...was I dreaming?

Partly ;-)

Icons in menus are not supported, but you can set "the imagesource of
char x of fld y to zzz", where zzz is the id or url of an image...

Check the "imagesource" entry in the dox.

> It was something like putting the
> "/" char or "&" before the item or line.
>
> Thanks,
> JR

Regards

Klaus Major
klaus at major-k.de
www.major-k.de


From graham.samuel at wanadoo.fr  Sat Feb 21 16:42:47 2004
From: graham.samuel at wanadoo.fr (Graham Samuel)
Date: Sat, 21 Feb 2004 22:42:47 +0100
Subject: When RunRev IDE crashes under Windows XP
Message-ID: <5.2.1.1.0.20040221224036.00b22e50@pop.wanadoo.fr>

Folks, in the above circumstances, XP offers to inform Microsoft of the 
software that an error has occurred. Does anyone understand this mechanism, 
what data is sent, and whether RunRev is in fact able to receive this data? 
I have never permitted the XP dialog to continue because I don't like 
sending data 'blind', but it's still interesting.

TIA

Graham

---------------------------------------------------
Graham Samuel / The Living Fossil Co. / UK & France  



From nnoydb at excite.com  Tue Feb 24 17:05:35 2004
From: nnoydb at excite.com (Kevin)
Date: Tue, 24 Feb 2004 17:05:35 -0500 (EST)
Subject: executionContext
Message-ID: <20040224220535.CB9C8B6D4@xprdmailfe19.nwk.excite.com>


Is there a function API to get the calling functions module name (other than parsing executionContexts)?

For Example:

In stackA.rev

on funcA
  funcB
end funcA 

In stackB.rev

on funcb
# from this function is there a API call to get the calling modules
# fully qualified path & name?
en funcb




-==-=-=-=-=-=-==-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-==-=-=-=-=-=-
Disclaimer:

Any resemblance between the above views and those of my
employer, my terminal, or the view out my window are purely
coincidental. 
Any resemblance between the above and my own views is non-deterministic.

 The question of the existence of views in the absence of anyone to hold
them
is left as an exercise for the reader. The question of the existence of
the reader
 is left as an exercise for the second god coefficient. 
(A discussion of non-orthogonal, non-integral polytheism is beyond the
scope of this article.)



_______________________________________________
Join Excite! - http://www.excite.com
The most personalized portal on the Web!

From alex at mindlube.com  Tue Feb 24 17:25:49 2004
From: alex at mindlube.com (Alex Rice)
Date: Tue, 24 Feb 2004 15:25:49 -0700
Subject: When RunRev IDE crashes under Windows XP
In-Reply-To: <5.2.1.1.0.20040221224036.00b22e50@pop.wanadoo.fr>
References: <5.2.1.1.0.20040221224036.00b22e50@pop.wanadoo.fr>
Message-ID: <663EF528-6718-11D8-B3F3-000393C4760A@mindlube.com>


On Feb 21, 2004, at 2:42 PM, Graham Samuel wrote:

> Folks, in the above circumstances, XP offers to inform Microsoft of 
> the software that an error has occurred. Does anyone understand this 
> mechanism, what data is sent, and whether RunRev is in fact able to 
> receive this data?

Don't know...

>  I have never permitted the XP dialog to continue because I don't like 
> sending data 'blind', but it's still interesting.

Mac OS X has the same thing in 10.3.

I am guessing the crash reports are scanned for Microsoft products (or 
Apple products), and if none are found then the reports are trashed.

--
Alex Rice | Mindlube Software | http://mindlube.com


From dsc at swcp.com  Tue Feb 24 17:32:43 2004
From: dsc at swcp.com (Dar Scott)
Date: Tue, 24 Feb 2004 15:32:43 -0700
Subject: executionContext
In-Reply-To: <20040224220535.CB9C8B6D4@xprdmailfe19.nwk.excite.com>
Message-ID: <5CE94334-6719-11D8-9832-000A9567A3E6@swcp.com>


On Tuesday, February 24, 2004, at 03:05 PM, Kevin wrote:

> Is there a function API to get the calling functions module name 
> (other than parsing executionContexts)?
>
> For Example:
>
> In stackA.rev
>
> on funcA
>   funcB
> end funcA
>
> In stackB.rev
>
> on funcb
> # from this function is there a API call to get the calling modules
> # fully qualified path & name?
> en funcb

That would be nice.  Or your can make a function with 
executionContexts, but remember to go two up in this case.

I had heard that using executionContexts was discouraged.  It would be 
great if it was supported or blessed or maybe just the function you 
asked for was provided.

I'd use it to make functions that call back as socket commands do.  As 
it is, I now specify the object by adding a parameter which takes 'the 
long id of me'.  Some folks compromise and use 'target' in the callee 
and this often works.  I also use a function that creates a "callback" 
value, but at this time it takes 'the long id of me'.

Once you are comfortable with Bugzilla, you might want to submit an 
enhancement request for this.

Dar Scott


From jacque at hyperactivesw.com  Tue Feb 24 18:06:32 2004
From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay)
Date: Tue, 24 Feb 2004 17:06:32 -0600
Subject: If / Then Statements (Andrea George)
In-Reply-To: <eec15f0942.f0942eec15@saintmarys.edu>
References: <eec15f0942.f0942eec15@saintmarys.edu>
Message-ID: <403BD8F8.8010809@hyperactivesw.com>

On 2/23/04 7:49 PM, geor9230 at saintmarys.edu wrote:

> I am currently trying to convert several Hypercard Stacks to
> Revolution Stacks...  A few errors that repeatedly appear are ones
> stating that the If statement is missing a Then Statement.
> 
> I do not see the IF statement in the script anywhere.. is it possible
> it is in another stack?

The script that is opened by the error dialog should be the one 
containing the problem syntax. You can use the search field at the 
bottom of the script editor to look for an "if" statement.

Did you compact the stack in HyperCard before bringing it into 
Revolution? Sometimes uncompacted stacks can cause odd problems like this.

-- 
Jacqueline Landman Gay         |     jacque at hyperactivesw.com
HyperActive Software           |     http://www.hyperactivesw.com

From hershbp at realtorsgroup.us  Tue Feb 24 19:37:08 2004
From: hershbp at realtorsgroup.us (hershrev)
Date: Tue, 24 Feb 2004 19:37:08 -0500
Subject: contains operator
Message-ID: <BE1090EA-672A-11D8-9ABD-0030654C1E62@realtorsgroup.us>

Hi, how do I use the contains operator in a negative way meaning  "does 
not contain" or " contains not" ?
Thanks hershrev


From ambassador at fourthworld.com  Tue Feb 24 19:38:34 2004
From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin)
Date: Tue, 24 Feb 2004 16:38:34 -0800
Subject: contains operator
In-Reply-To: <BE1090EA-672A-11D8-9ABD-0030654C1E62@realtorsgroup.us>
References: <BE1090EA-672A-11D8-9ABD-0030654C1E62@realtorsgroup.us>
Message-ID: <403BEE8A.1000703@fourthworld.com>

hershrev wrote:

> how do I use the contains operator in a negative way meaning  "does 
> not contain"

if tMyVar does not contain "try it, it works!" then exit to top

-- 
  Richard Gaskin
  Fourth World Media Corporation
  ___________________________________________________________
  Ambassador at FourthWorld.com       http://www.FourthWorld.com

From hershbp at realtorsgroup.us  Tue Feb 24 19:45:23 2004
From: hershbp at realtorsgroup.us (hershrev)
Date: Tue, 24 Feb 2004 19:45:23 -0500
Subject: contains operator
In-Reply-To: <403BEE8A.1000703@fourthworld.com>
Message-ID: <E5813256-672B-11D8-9ABD-0030654C1E62@realtorsgroup.us>


On Tuesday, February 24, 2004, at 07:38 PM, Richard Gaskin wrote:

> hershrev wrote:
>
>> how do I use the contains operator in a negative way meaning  "does 
>> not contain"
>
> if tMyVar does not contain "try it, it works!" then exit to top
I tried that previously, does not work .
I was thinking ; if myVar contains "a" then ---  comment else script, 
but to much involved.
>
> -- 
>  Richard Gaskin
>  Fourth World Media Corporation
>  ___________________________________________________________
>  Ambassador at FourthWorld.com       http://www.FourthWorld.com
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>


From scott at tactilemedia.com  Tue Feb 24 19:45:08 2004
From: scott at tactilemedia.com (Scott Rossi)
Date: Tue, 24 Feb 2004 16:45:08 -0800
Subject: contains operator
In-Reply-To: <BE1090EA-672A-11D8-9ABD-0030654C1E62@realtorsgroup.us>
Message-ID: <BC613014.A428%scott@tactilemedia.com>

Recently, "hershrev"  wrote:

> how do I use the contains operator in a negative way meaning  "does
> not contain" or " contains not" ?

I don't know if there is a way to write a negative contain, but you can use:

 "c" is not in "ab"

Or

 "c" is not among the chars of "ab"

Regards,

Scott Rossi
Creative Director
Tactile Media, Multimedia & Design
-----
E: scott at tactilemedia.com
W: http://www.tactilemedia.com


From psahores at easynet.fr  Tue Feb 24 19:47:46 2004
From: psahores at easynet.fr (Pierre Sahores)
Date: Wed, 25 Feb 2004 01:47:46 +0100
Subject: contains operator
In-Reply-To: <BE1090EA-672A-11D8-9ABD-0030654C1E62@realtorsgroup.us>
References: <BE1090EA-672A-11D8-9ABD-0030654C1E62@realtorsgroup.us>
Message-ID: <3A6C6080-672C-11D8-9573-000A95C61E96@easynet.fr>

Just use "is not in"
-- 
Bien cordialement, Pierre Sahores

100, rue de Paris
F - 77140 Nemours

psahores at easynet.fr

GSM:   +33 6 03 95 77 70
Pro:      +33 1 41 60 52 68
Dom:    +33 1 64 45 05 33
Fax:      +33 1 64 45 05 33

Inspection acad?mique de Seine-Saint-Denis
Applications et SGBD ACID SQL (WEB et PGI)
Penser et produire "delta de productivit?"

Le 25 f?vr. 04, ? 01:37, hershrev a ?crit :

> Hi, how do I use the contains operator in a negative way meaning  
> "does not contain" or " contains not" ?
> Thanks hershrev
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>


From hershbp at realtorsgroup.us  Tue Feb 24 19:50:27 2004
From: hershbp at realtorsgroup.us (hershrev)
Date: Tue, 24 Feb 2004 19:50:27 -0500
Subject: contains operator
In-Reply-To: <BC613014.A428%scott@tactilemedia.com>
Message-ID: <9A61D406-672C-11D8-9ABD-0030654C1E62@realtorsgroup.us>


On Tuesday, February 24, 2004, at 07:45 PM, Scott Rossi wrote:

> Recently, "hershrev"  wrote:
>
>> how do I use the contains operator in a negative way meaning  "does
>> not contain" or " contains not" ?
>
> I don't know if there is a way to write a negative contain, but you 
> can use:
>
>  "c" is not in "ab"
>
> Or
>
>  "c" is not among the chars of "ab"
 From the doc. of Rev.
"Hello" is among the words of "Hello World" -- evaluates to true
"Hell" is among the words of "Hello World" -- evaluates to false
which means even if "c" is among "abc" it'll return false.
Thanks.
>
> Regards,
>
> Scott Rossi
> Creative Director
> Tactile Media, Multimedia & Design
> -----
> E: scott at tactilemedia.com
> W: http://www.tactilemedia.com
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>


From dsc at swcp.com  Tue Feb 24 19:50:19 2004
From: dsc at swcp.com (Dar Scott)
Date: Tue, 24 Feb 2004 17:50:19 -0700
Subject: contains operator
In-Reply-To: <BE1090EA-672A-11D8-9ABD-0030654C1E62@realtorsgroup.us>
Message-ID: <95BAA76C-672C-11D8-9832-000A9567A3E6@swcp.com>


On Tuesday, February 24, 2004, at 05:37 PM, hershrev wrote:

> Hi, how do I use the contains operator in a negative way meaning  
> "does not contain" or " contains not" ?

   if not (x contains y) then beep
   if y is not in x then beep
   if x contains y, not so then beep  -- just kidding

Dar Scott


From psahores at easynet.fr  Tue Feb 24 19:50:53 2004
From: psahores at easynet.fr (Pierre Sahores)
Date: Wed, 25 Feb 2004 01:50:53 +0100
Subject: contains operator
In-Reply-To: <403BEE8A.1000703@fourthworld.com>
References: <BE1090EA-672A-11D8-9ABD-0030654C1E62@realtorsgroup.us>
	<403BEE8A.1000703@fourthworld.com>
Message-ID: <A9C0D0E6-672C-11D8-9573-000A95C61E96@easynet.fr>

Else, this works fine, too : if tMyVar contains "try it, it works!" is 
false then exit to top
-- 
Bien cordialement, Pierre Sahores

100, rue de Paris
F - 77140 Nemours

psahores at easynet.fr

GSM:   +33 6 03 95 77 70
Pro:      +33 1 41 60 52 68
Dom:    +33 1 64 45 05 33
Fax:      +33 1 64 45 05 33

Inspection acad?mique de Seine-Saint-Denis
Applications et SGBD ACID SQL (WEB et PGI)
Penser et produire "delta de productivit?"

Le 25 f?vr. 04, ? 01:38, Richard Gaskin a ?crit :

> hershrev wrote:
>
>> how do I use the contains operator in a negative way meaning  "does 
>> not contain"
>
> if tMyVar does not contain "try it, it works!" then exit to top
>
> -- 
>  Richard Gaskin
>  Fourth World Media Corporation
>  ___________________________________________________________
>  Ambassador at FourthWorld.com       http://www.FourthWorld.com
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>


From scott at tactilemedia.com  Tue Feb 24 19:54:40 2004
From: scott at tactilemedia.com (Scott Rossi)
Date: Tue, 24 Feb 2004 16:54:40 -0800
Subject: contains operator
In-Reply-To: <9A61D406-672C-11D8-9ABD-0030654C1E62@realtorsgroup.us>
Message-ID: <BC613250.A435%scott@tactilemedia.com>

Recently, "hershrev"  wrote:

> you 
>> can use:
>> 
>>  "c" is not in "ab"
>> 
>> Or
>> 
>>  "c" is not among the chars of "ab"

> From the doc. of Rev.
> "Hello" is among the words of "Hello World" -- evaluates to true
> "Hell" is among the words of "Hello World" -- evaluates to false
> which means even if "c" is among "abc" it'll return false.

Note the use of "among the chars", not just "among".  You need to specify a
chunk type.

Regards,

Scott Rossi
Creative Director
Tactile Media, Multimedia & Design
-----
E: scott at tactilemedia.com
W: http://www.tactilemedia.com


From hershbp at realtorsgroup.us  Tue Feb 24 19:58:23 2004
From: hershbp at realtorsgroup.us (hershrev)
Date: Tue, 24 Feb 2004 19:58:23 -0500
Subject: contains operator
In-Reply-To: <95BAA76C-672C-11D8-9832-000A9567A3E6@swcp.com>
Message-ID: <B640A8D0-672D-11D8-9ABD-0030654C1E62@realtorsgroup.us>


On Tuesday, February 24, 2004, at 07:50 PM, Dar Scott wrote:

>
> On Tuesday, February 24, 2004, at 05:37 PM, hershrev wrote:
>
>> Hi, how do I use the contains operator in a negative way meaning  
>> "does not contain" or " contains not" ?
>
>   if not (x contains y) then beep
This is the one.
Your the person of the day.
Thanks.
>   if y is not in x then beep
>   if x contains y, not so then beep  -- just kidding
after a day's of work you deserve a little bit having a good time.
>
> Dar Scott
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>


From ambassador at fourthworld.com  Tue Feb 24 20:00:20 2004
From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin)
Date: Tue, 24 Feb 2004 17:00:20 -0800
Subject: contains operator
In-Reply-To: <B640A8D0-672D-11D8-9ABD-0030654C1E62@realtorsgroup.us>
References: <B640A8D0-672D-11D8-9ABD-0030654C1E62@realtorsgroup.us>
Message-ID: <403BF3A4.6040607@fourthworld.com>

hershrev wrote:

>>   if not (x contains y) then beep
> 
> This is the one.

Good catch.  Sorry to have led you astray.  I've been seduced by the 
otherwise orthogonal grace of Transcript.

I wonder why "does not contain" is not implemented?

-- 
  Richard Gaskin
  Fourth World Media Corporation
  ___________________________________________________________
  Ambassador at FourthWorld.com       http://www.FourthWorld.com

From joe.gardner at nwa.com  Tue Feb 24 20:03:11 2004
From: joe.gardner at nwa.com (Gardner, Joseph A)
Date: Wed, 25 Feb 2004 10:03:11 +0900
Subject: contains operator
Message-ID: <CF18E340C73DB74C930BB2473A7F5362239080@AMTYOK01.pad.nwa.com>

Hershrev,

I use something like this:

if myVar contains "sometext" is false then doSomeThing

or

if myVar contains "sometext" is true then doSomeThingElse

This seems to work for me, but YMMV depending on how you're gonna use it.

joe.


> Message: 10
> Date: Tue, 24 Feb 2004 19:37:08 -0500
> From: hershrev <hershbp at realtorsgroup.us>
> Subject: contains operator
> 
> Hi, how do I use the contains operator in a negative way meaning  "does 
> not contain" or " contains not" ?
> Thanks hershrev
> 

From hershbp at realtorsgroup.us  Tue Feb 24 20:09:38 2004
From: hershbp at realtorsgroup.us (hershrev)
Date: Tue, 24 Feb 2004 20:09:38 -0500
Subject: contains operator
In-Reply-To: <CF18E340C73DB74C930BB2473A7F5362239080@AMTYOK01.pad.nwa.com>
Message-ID: <48C545E4-672F-11D8-9ABD-0030654C1E62@realtorsgroup.us>


On Tuesday, February 24, 2004, at 08:03 PM, Gardner, Joseph A wrote:

> Hershrev,
>
> I use something like this:
>
> if myVar contains "sometext" is false then doSomeThing
Goooooooooood thinking,
hershrev
>
> or
>
> if myVar contains "sometext" is true then doSomeThingElse
is true I think is unnecessary.
>
> This seems to work for me, but YMMV depending on how you're gonna use 
> it.
>
> joe.
>
>
>> Message: 10
>> Date: Tue, 24 Feb 2004 19:37:08 -0500
>> From: hershrev <hershbp at realtorsgroup.us>
>> Subject: contains operator
>>
>> Hi, how do I use the contains operator in a negative way meaning  
>> "does
>> not contain" or " contains not" ?
>> Thanks hershrev
>>
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>


From hershbp at realtorsgroup.us  Tue Feb 24 20:16:15 2004
From: hershbp at realtorsgroup.us (hershrev)
Date: Tue, 24 Feb 2004 20:16:15 -0500
Subject: contains operator
In-Reply-To: <403BF3A4.6040607@fourthworld.com>
Message-ID: <34FA1B02-6730-11D8-9ABD-0030654C1E62@realtorsgroup.us>


On Tuesday, February 24, 2004, at 08:00 PM, Richard Gaskin wrote:

> hershrev wrote:
>
>>>   if not (x contains y) then beep
>> This is the one.
>
> Good catch.  Sorry to have led you astray.  I've been seduced by the 
> otherwise orthogonal grace of Transcript.
As long as it works . A smile a day keeps the doctor away.
>
> I wonder why "does not contain" is not implemented?
Me too.
hershrev
>
> -- 
>  Richard Gaskin
>  Fourth World Media Corporation
>  ___________________________________________________________
>  Ambassador at FourthWorld.com       http://www.FourthWorld.com
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>


From revolution at jaedworks.com  Tue Feb 24 20:26:13 2004
From: revolution at jaedworks.com (Jeanne A. E. DeVoto)
Date: Tue, 24 Feb 2004 17:26:13 -0800
Subject: contains operator
In-Reply-To: <9A61D406-672C-11D8-9ABD-0030654C1E62@realtorsgroup.us>
References: <9A61D406-672C-11D8-9ABD-0030654C1E62@realtorsgroup.us>
Message-ID: <p06010200bc61a9918805@[10.0.1.8]>

At 7:50 PM -0500 2/24/2004, hershrev wrote:
>>  "c" is not among the chars of "ab"
>From the doc. of Rev.
>"Hello" is among the words of "Hello World" -- evaluates to true
>"Hell" is among the words of "Hello World" -- evaluates to false
>which means even if "c" is among "abc" it'll return false.

That's not quite right. If you check
   c is not among the chars of "abc"
it will evaluate to true, because you are testing chars (not words). 
In this case, "c" is one of the characters in "abc", so the 
expression evaluates to true.

The examples from the docs test words, not chars. "Hell" is not one 
of the words in "Hello World", so the example evaluates to false. 
However, if you check whether "H" is among the chars of "Hello 
World", it will evaluate to true.
-- 
jeanne a. e. devoto ~ jaed at jaedworks.com
http://www.jaedworks.com

From dsc at swcp.com  Tue Feb 24 20:39:29 2004
From: dsc at swcp.com (Dar Scott)
Date: Tue, 24 Feb 2004 18:39:29 -0700
Subject: contains operator
In-Reply-To: <403BF3A4.6040607@fourthworld.com>
Message-ID: <73EDE4D2-6733-11D8-9832-000A9567A3E6@swcp.com>


On Tuesday, February 24, 2004, at 06:00 PM, Richard Gaskin wrote:

> I've been seduced by the otherwise orthogonal grace of Transcript.
>
> I wonder why "does not contain" is not implemented?

Good point.  It is the only predicate operator that does not have a 
negative syntax.

By predicate, I mean an operator that typically is used on other than 
true/false and returns true/false.  Relations are good examples.  Uh, 
look at the logical operators in "Transcript Language Dictionary" and 
skip and/or/not.

Dar Scott


From hershbp at realtorsgroup.us  Tue Feb 24 20:50:15 2004
From: hershbp at realtorsgroup.us (hershrev)
Date: Tue, 24 Feb 2004 20:50:15 -0500
Subject: contains operator
In-Reply-To: <p06010200bc61a9918805@[10.0.1.8]>
Message-ID: <F54F9CDC-6734-11D8-9ABD-0030654C1E62@realtorsgroup.us>


On Tuesday, February 24, 2004, at 08:26 PM, Jeanne A. E. DeVoto wrote:

> At 7:50 PM -0500 2/24/2004, hershrev wrote:
>>>  "c" is not among the chars of "ab"
>> From the doc. of Rev.
>> "Hello" is among the words of "Hello World" -- evaluates to true
>> "Hell" is among the words of "Hello World" -- evaluates to false
>> which means even if "c" is among "abc" it'll return false.
>
> That's not quite right. If you check
>   c is not among the chars of "abc"
> it will evaluate to true, because you are testing chars (not words). 
> In this case, "c" is one of the characters in "abc", so the expression 
> evaluates to true.
>
> The examples from the docs test words, not chars. "Hell" is not one of 
> the words in "Hello World", so the example evaluates to false. 
> However, if you check whether "H" is among the chars of "Hello World", 
> it will evaluate to true.
Yes , sounds right.
> -- 
> jeanne a. e. devoto ~ jaed at jaedworks.com
> http://www.jaedworks.com
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>


From sarahr at genesearch.com.au  Tue Feb 24 21:34:19 2004
From: sarahr at genesearch.com.au (Sarah Reichelt)
Date: Wed, 25 Feb 2004 12:34:19 +1000
Subject: trying to keep up to date with the list, bits and bobs
In-Reply-To: <157.2e7dd15e.2d6cb64b@aol.com>
References: <157.2e7dd15e.2d6cb64b@aol.com>
Message-ID: <1CD74BFA-673B-11D8-BAB5-0003937A97B8@genesearch.com.au>

On 25 Feb 2004, at 12:16 am, DVGlasgow at aol.com wrote:

> Finally, I am *still* having odd problems with Win XP that I can't 
> nail, that
> don't happen on any other Win OS or Mac classic (dunno about X, I am 
> still
> too scared to switch).  The one I heard about today is that a button 
> that is
> 'shown' on opencard or via a tab click doesn't show on XP.  Same 
> install on
> earlier Wins (& Mac) works fine.  I don't want to bore you all with 
> baroque script,
> but I just want someone to say "Yes, Win XP is as strange as it looks 
> and
> misbehaves with my stacks too".  Maybe add a few hints about why XP 
> doesn't
> always seem able to respond to messages in the way everything else 
> does.
>
I don;t know if it is in any way related, but I had a problem with 
disabled buttons in WinXP when I built the app in another OS. The 
buttons were actually disabled but they looked normal, so it was purely 
a visual glitch. Transferring the stack file to a WinXP system and 
doing the build there, without making any changes, fixed it all up.

So my recommendation would be to borrow an XP system and build for XP 
using that.

Cheers,
Sarah


From pixelbird at interisland.net  Tue Feb 24 21:40:32 2004
From: pixelbird at interisland.net (Ken Norris)
Date: Tue, 24 Feb 2004 18:40:32 -0800
Subject: Choices, Choices, Choices
In-Reply-To: <20040224205844.616BE9300AB@mail.runrev.com>
Message-ID: <BC614B20.5280%pixelbird@interisland.net>

Hi Thomsa,

> Date: Tue, 24 Feb 2004 12:04:29 -0500
> From: Thomas McGrath III <3mcgrath at adelphia.net>
> Subject: Re: Choices, Choices, Choices
> 

> Only thing is there will be spaces in the items. I thought line, word,
> items could not handle spaces?
-----------
So fake it. Put some other char for a space and turn it back into a space
when you pull it out, just before you display it.

Also, I was thinking of a line item leader to locate a line, then use a loop
to match an item if you have to.

Ken N.


From 3mcgrath at adelphia.net  Tue Feb 24 22:24:00 2004
From: 3mcgrath at adelphia.net (Thomas McGrath III)
Date: Tue, 24 Feb 2004 22:24:00 -0500
Subject: contains operator
In-Reply-To: <95BAA76C-672C-11D8-9832-000A9567A3E6@swcp.com>
References: <95BAA76C-672C-11D8-9832-000A9567A3E6@swcp.com>
Message-ID: <0DE39E74-6742-11D8-95F7-000A95DA60FA@adelphia.net>

Haaa Haaa

You really got  me there......................

That was really good......


thanks
tom
On Feb 24, 2004, at 7:50 PM, Dar Scott wrote:

>
> On Tuesday, February 24, 2004, at 05:37 PM, hershrev wrote:
>
>> Hi, how do I use the contains operator in a negative way meaning  
>> "does not contain" or " contains not" ?
>
>   if not (x contains y) then beep
>   if y is not in x then beep
>   if x contains y, not so then beep  -- just kidding
>
> Dar Scott
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>
>

Thomas J. McGrath III
SCS
1000 Killarney Dr.
Pittsburgh, PA 15234
412-885-8541


From 3mcgrath at adelphia.net  Tue Feb 24 22:29:46 2004
From: 3mcgrath at adelphia.net (Thomas McGrath III)
Date: Tue, 24 Feb 2004 22:29:46 -0500
Subject: contains operator
In-Reply-To: <p06010200bc61a9918805@[10.0.1.8]>
References: <9A61D406-672C-11D8-9ABD-0030654C1E62@realtorsgroup.us>
	<p06010200bc61a9918805@[10.0.1.8]>
Message-ID: <DC02D41E-6742-11D8-95F7-000A95DA60FA@adelphia.net>

Actually since your are saying c is NOT among the CHARS of "abc"  Then 
it is false. C is among the Chars of abc but the expression asks if it 
is Not among and that is false cause it is.

FWIW

tom

On Feb 24, 2004, at 8:26 PM, Jeanne A. E. DeVoto wrote:

>
> That's not quite right. If you check
>   c is not among the chars of "abc"
> it will evaluate to true, because you are testing chars (not words). 
> In this case, "c" is one of the characters in "abc", so the expression 
> evaluates to true.
>

Thomas J. McGrath III
SCS
1000 Killarney Dr.
Pittsburgh, PA 15234
412-885-8541


From 3mcgrath at adelphia.net  Tue Feb 24 22:32:35 2004
From: 3mcgrath at adelphia.net (Thomas McGrath III)
Date: Tue, 24 Feb 2004 22:32:35 -0500
Subject: Choices, Choices, Choices
In-Reply-To: <BC614B20.5280%pixelbird@interisland.net>
References: <BC614B20.5280%pixelbird@interisland.net>
Message-ID: <410D50DC-6743-11D8-95F7-000A95DA60FA@adelphia.net>

ken, at this point that is what I am looking at doing. Rev has better 
tools than SC and I think it will be much easier to implement.

Another question is  I want a button to have a custom look and to have 
different icons on the button. That is two graphics in a button???? I 
want them all to act like one button and act like a real button. Any 
ideas......

Tom
On Feb 24, 2004, at 9:40 PM, Ken Norris wrote:

> Hi Thomsa,
>
>> Date: Tue, 24 Feb 2004 12:04:29 -0500
>> From: Thomas McGrath III <3mcgrath at adelphia.net>
>> Subject: Re: Choices, Choices, Choices
>>
>
>> Only thing is there will be spaces in the items. I thought line, word,
>> items could not handle spaces?
> -----------
> So fake it. Put some other char for a space and turn it back into a 
> space
> when you pull it out, just before you display it.
>
> Also, I was thinking of a line item leader to locate a line, then use 
> a loop
> to match an item if you have to.
>
> Ken N.
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>
>

Thomas J. McGrath III
SCS
1000 Killarney Dr.
Pittsburgh, PA 15234
412-885-8541


From squance at elkvalley.net  Tue Feb 24 22:54:34 2004
From: squance at elkvalley.net (David Squance)
Date: Tue, 24 Feb 2004 20:54:34 -0700
Subject: Printer problems
In-Reply-To: <BC37E14F.3BD78%ambassador@fourthworld.com>
References: <BC38AC6A.240A3%doug@webcrossing.com>
Message-ID: <l0313030fbc61ca3bf1ab@[192.168.1.100]>

Hi Group,
I have a few odditities with a very simple stack.  It is one card, a couple
dozen fields and a half dozen buttons.  The main purpose is to print most
of the fields.  I use 'print this card', having masked everything except
the text of the fields to be printed.  Everything was fine on my Mac
(OS10.3.2).  When I built for Windows, I discovered that the printed font
is nothing like what is on the screen.  I had used Courier, since I thought
that was about as generic as it gets.  The Windows machine I sent the
standalone to is XP.  Is it possible the printer (a laserprinter--HP, I
think) doesn't have courier?  Anything else I've missed?

Since fiddling around on my Mac looking for solutions, I did find something
about the default textfont for the stack, and set that to courier as well,
but the fields to be printed all had the font specified.  The next problem
is that since the last few changes (mostly a little shifting for printing
position), every time I print, I get the dreaded colour wheel and have to
force quit.  What's going on?
TIA
Dave



From erikhans08 at yahoo.com  Tue Feb 24 22:57:22 2004
From: erikhans08 at yahoo.com (Erik Hansen)
Date: Tue, 24 Feb 2004 19:57:22 -0800 (PST)
Subject: not ("abc" contains "123") = true
In-Reply-To: <BC613014.A428%scott@tactilemedia.com>
Message-ID: <20040225035722.40394.qmail@web61109.mail.yahoo.com>


> Recently, "hershrev"  wrote:
> 
> > how do I use the contains operator in a
> negative way meaning  "does
> > not contain" or " contains not" ?

not ("abc" contains "123") = true

=====
erik at erikhansen.org    http://www.erikhansen.org

__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Mail SpamGuard - Read only the mail you want.
http://antispam.yahoo.com/tools

From 3mcgrath at adelphia.net  Tue Feb 24 23:12:21 2004
From: 3mcgrath at adelphia.net (Thomas McGrath III)
Date: Tue, 24 Feb 2004 23:12:21 -0500
Subject: custom buttons
Message-ID: <CF058258-6748-11D8-95F7-000A95DA60FA@adelphia.net>

Hello to all of you....

Does anyone know if there is a custom button creator for live use 
within rev?
I can draw my own in Photoshop. What I need is actually to combine two 
graphics from within rev and then it to act like a real button.
One graphic is a special looking button and the other is an icon to go 
in it then When pushed it needs to push down.

Help?

Tom

Macintosh PowerBook G-4 OSX 10.3.1, OS 9.2.2, 1.25 GHz, 512MB RAM, Rev 
2.1.2


Advanced Media Group
Thomas J McGrath III	? 2003 ?	3mcgrath at adelphia.net
220 Drake Road, Bethel Park, PA 15102



From erikhans08 at yahoo.com  Tue Feb 24 23:52:43 2004
From: erikhans08 at yahoo.com (Erik Hansen)
Date: Tue, 24 Feb 2004 20:52:43 -0800 (PST)
Subject: =?iso-8859-1?q?Re=3A=5FPb=5Favec=5Fl=27=E9diteur=5Fde=5Fscripts?=
In-Reply-To: <21582729-66DA-11D8-A5BE-000A27B49A96@major-k.de>
Message-ID: <20040225045243.6529.qmail@web61103.mail.yahoo.com>


--- Klaus Major <klaus at major-k.de> wrote:

> > I have seen this prejudice (especially
> against Americans) in my trips 
> > to Finland, Germany and even England.

newscasts from London to the US 
now have the Cockney subtitled!

Erik Hansen

=====
erik at erikhansen.org    http://www.erikhansen.org

__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Mail SpamGuard - Read only the mail you want.
http://antispam.yahoo.com/tools

From nnoydb at excite.com  Wed Feb 25 01:28:46 2004
From: nnoydb at excite.com (Kevin)
Date: Wed, 25 Feb 2004 01:28:46 -0500 (EST)
Subject: executionContext
Message-ID: <20040225062846.B86FD8AECF@xprdmailfe2.nwk.excite.com>


I have written two libraries.

1. libBasics.rev which contains 2 functions currentContext() and package() it is dropped into you Run Rev Application Directory in each file you can do the following.

start using "libBasics"
start using package( "../common/xxx" ) 

package will automatically set directory to the calling stacks location.

2. libUtils
    callingMethod - give name of calling method 
    callingStack - give name of calling stack 
    callingStackDirectory - give the path to calling stack
    decrement - self explanatory
    increment - self explanatory
    displayError - displays error with context information 
    mandatory - ensure parameters to handler are provided
    throwException - throw exception with context information

If you would find these interesting I can  make them available.


Note: I am also working on a graphing object.

Kevin


_______________________________________________
Join Excite! - http://www.excite.com
The most personalized portal on the Web!

From mcdomi at free.fr  Wed Feb 25 01:46:05 2004
From: mcdomi at free.fr (Dom)
Date: Wed, 25 Feb 2004 07:46:05 +0100
Subject: put URL "the Address" and get a directory?
In-Reply-To: <p060102d6bc6129627d07@[10.0.1.8]>
Message-ID: <1g9oh2x.10iqa3f14w862uM%mcdomi@free.fr>

Jeanne A. E. DeVoto <revolution at jaedworks.com> wrote:

> The details depend on what the server is sending

Thanks!

I feared that ;-)

It seems they have an Apache server.... nonetheless, the most important
is the last one, i.e. the directory name :-)

-- 
Vous parlez fran?ais ? faites un tour sur le groupe francophone !
revolutionfr-subscribe at yahoogroupes.fr
Jetez un oeil sur RevoBlog <http://revoblog.free.fr> !

From 3s at seric.es  Wed Feb 25 02:02:59 2004
From: 3s at seric.es (3S)
Date: Wed, 25 Feb 2004 08:02:59 +0100
Subject: Serious applications
Message-ID: <20040224202343.A1A9.3S@seric.es>

Hi,

has been testing Revolution for a couple of hours and looks a little bit
inmature. I don't want to be less polite, but my English...

I'm looking for a solution to develop cross platform applications,
mainly for Linux and Windows. Our first choices was Delphi/Kylix and
C++, but I found Revolution, cool name :-)

We have to develop multiuser programs like accounting and billing
software with very intensive database use, the prefered databases are
PostgreSql and Firebird.

Anybody could point me to samples of "big" applications developed with
Revolution? Details? Reports? Links?

It is Revolution the right tool? other suggestion?

Regards,
Jose
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 
3S <3s at seric.es>



From Cubist at aol.com  Wed Feb 25 02:23:43 2004
From: Cubist at aol.com (Cubist at aol.com)
Date: Wed, 25 Feb 2004 02:23:43 -0500
Subject: contains operator
Message-ID: <230E3DF7.67AE294C.00048C52@aol.com>

sez hershbp at realtorsgroup.us:
>Hi, how do I use the contains operator in a negative way meaning ?"does 
>not contain" or " contains not" ?
   If you can use a standard "contains" operator at all, inverting said operator is (or at least should be) fairly trivial. Like so:

  if not (This contains That) then

   Hope this helps...

From chipp at chipp.com  Wed Feb 25 03:24:44 2004
From: chipp at chipp.com (Chipp Walters)
Date: Wed, 25 Feb 2004 02:24:44 -0600
Subject: custom buttons
In-Reply-To: <CF058258-6748-11D8-95F7-000A95DA60FA@adelphia.net>
References: <CF058258-6748-11D8-95F7-000A95DA60FA@adelphia.net>
Message-ID: <403C5BCC.7090806@chipp.com>

Tom,

check out www.buttongadget.com

-Chipp


From rjb at rz.uni-potsdam.de  Wed Feb 25 03:22:42 2004
From: rjb at rz.uni-potsdam.de (Robert Brenstein)
Date: Wed, 25 Feb 2004 09:22:42 +0100
Subject: RunRev Pricing
In-Reply-To: <403A2BB8.8080004@fourthworld.com>
References: <1g9m6lx.4sv94z18kxm46M%mcdomi@free.fr>
 <403A0B60.FFE4CBEA@Club-Internet.fr>
 <a05210604bc5fca0d60c0@[192.168.1.100]> <403A2BB8.8080004@fourthworld.com>
Message-ID: <a06020437bc6209e6a81b@[141.89.100.235]>

>
>But as for getting going with Mac, I believe all Mac versions are 
>included in the Mac license, which would mean both OS X and the 
>older Classic.   I can't imagine RunRev would charge separately for 
>the defunct OS 9.
>
>--
>  Richard Gaskin
>  Fourth World Media Corporation

I was going to let this remark pass, but we have a mixed bag of 
readers on the list and it comes as a bit of surprise to hear it from 
you, Richard. OS9 may be defunct but last January Steve Jobs stated 
that OSX accounts for only (well, he said already) 40% of Mac users. 
For marketting, the technical proveness of a system is less relevant 
than the size of that market segment and it seems that majority of 
Mac users are still with the older platform. That is quite a few 
people. May be your products are addressed to the upper group which 
switched, but this is not true in general. W98 has been defunct even 
longer and it is still fully supported by most software vendors 
(granted, it is somewhat easier than in case of OS9/OSX).

Robert

From ambassador at fourthworld.com  Wed Feb 25 03:41:16 2004
From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin)
Date: Wed, 25 Feb 2004 00:41:16 -0800
Subject: RunRev Pricing
In-Reply-To: <a06020437bc6209e6a81b@[141.89.100.235]>
References: <1g9m6lx.4sv94z18kxm46M%mcdomi@free.fr>
	<403A0B60.FFE4CBEA@Club-Internet.fr> <a05210604bc5fca0d60c0@[192.168.1.100]>
	<403A2BB8.8080004@fourthworld.com> <a06020437bc6209e6a81b@[141.89.100.235]>
Message-ID: <403C5FAC.20907@fourthworld.com>

Robert Brenstein wrote:
>>
>> But as for getting going with Mac, I believe all Mac versions are 
>> included in the Mac license, which would mean both OS X and the older 
>> Classic.   I can't imagine RunRev would charge separately for the 
>> defunct OS 9.
>>
>> -- 
>>  Richard Gaskin
>>  Fourth World Media Corporation
> 
> 
> I was going to let this remark pass, but we have a mixed bag of readers 
> on the list and it comes as a bit of surprise to hear it from you, 
> Richard. OS9 may be defunct but last January Steve Jobs stated that OSX 
> accounts for only (well, he said already) 40% of Mac users. For 
> marketting, the technical proveness of a system is less relevant than 
> the size of that market segment and it seems that majority of Mac users 
> are still with the older platform. That is quite a few people. May be 
> your products are addressed to the upper group which switched, but this 
> is not true in general. W98 has been defunct even longer and it is still 
> fully supported by most software vendors (granted, it is somewhat easier 
> than in case of OS9/OSX).

I'm just preaching the Steve gospel.  A majority of Mac sales across all 
products I manage are still for Classic.  Maybe I should have used 
"retired" rather than "defunct".  Beyond that, please don't shoot the 
messenger: it's Apple pushing to get rid of Classic, not me.  I rather 
like OS 9.

-- 
  Richard Gaskin
  Fourth World Media Corporation
  ___________________________________________________________
  Ambassador at FourthWorld.com       http://www.FourthWorld.com

From richmond at mail.maclaunch.com  Wed Feb 25 02:52:27 2004
From: richmond at mail.maclaunch.com (Mathewson)
Date: Wed, 25 Feb 2004 02:52:27 -0500
Subject: revSpeak, Win XP, memory bloat.....Stupid Agents
Message-ID: <web-314956719@mail.maclaunch.com>

UMM!

  So to use revSpeak at present in Win XP we have to go
back to the future (i.e. the usual Windows nonsense)....

  So here's Richmond happily building a prototype
Intelligent Agent....
(!!!  Yes, Really  !!!)

Complete with zombie-like character revSpeaking the usual
daft phrases (remember 'Max Headroom' ?  OK, OK, I'm Scots
and I'm 42)....and why, you ask, is R so daft...why doesn't
he use AIFF files or MOV ones?

Because......they have to be embedded...and not everybody
(unlike Richmond, swank, swank) has an all-singing,
all-dancing G4 multi-processing, coffee-making,
personal-massaging computer with oodles of RAM.

The idea is.....  have a few silent MOV files with
zombie-character mouthing (i.e.e meant to look like
speaking) and then loads of revSpeak lines in fields that
can be paired with the MOVs....not completely daft!

However.....with XP and all the other SAPPY WIN systems
being out of sync. with RR this is a real 'bother'.....

Bright ideas PLEASE!!!

Love, Abuse, Richmond Mathewson
__________________________________________________
See Mathewson's software at:

http://members.maclaunch.com/richmond/default.html    and
http://www.runrev.com/Revolution1/developercentral/usercontributions.html
_______________________________________
---------------------------------------------------------------
Great Macintosh Products 
 The MacLaunch Store! http://www.maclaunch.com/cgi-launch/store/agora.cgi
---------------------------------------------------------------

From shaosean at unitz.ca  Wed Feb 25 08:02:52 2004
From: shaosean at unitz.ca (shaosean at unitz.ca)
Date: Wed, 25 Feb 2004 08:02:52 -0500
Subject: Serious applications
In-Reply-To: <20040224202343.A1A9.3S@seric.es>
References: <20040224202343.A1A9.3S@seric.es>
Message-ID: <WorldClient-F200402250802.AA02520309@unitz.ca>

> We have to develop multiuser programs like accounting and billing
> software with very intensive database use, the prefered databases are
> PostgreSql and Firebird.

i'm currently writing a tool to be used at a print shop that allows for 
tracking of all the jobs and clients, as well as all the billing, 
invoicing and break-down of "cost of doing business".. i've custom built 
a protocol to allow for multiple users accessing all the data at the 
same time, and am just using rev stacks as the databases.. so far 
everything is working smoothly on the mac/windows network..

 
> Anybody could point me to samples of "big" applications developed with
> Revolution? Details? Reports? Links?

check out hemmingway, but i have a feeling the majority of large 
projects are internal, or still being built..


> It is Revolution the right tool? other suggestion?

it can be...  ^_^


-Sean


From dsc at swcp.com  Wed Feb 25 09:02:57 2004
From: dsc at swcp.com (Dar Scott)
Date: Wed, 25 Feb 2004 07:02:57 -0700
Subject: RunRev Pricing
In-Reply-To: <403C5FAC.20907@fourthworld.com>
Message-ID: <5031FA00-679B-11D8-8617-000A9567A3E6@swcp.com>


On Wednesday, February 25, 2004, at 01:41 AM, Richard Gaskin wrote:

> A majority of Mac sales across all products I manage are still for 
> Classic.

This is important for me to know.  That some percentage are OS X and 
some greater percentage are pre OS X means little of those of the older 
OS are not spending money.

Do others see the same thing as Richard?

Dar Scott


From psahores at easynet.fr  Wed Feb 25 09:16:49 2004
From: psahores at easynet.fr (Pierre Sahores)
Date: Wed, 25 Feb 2004 15:16:49 +0100
Subject: Serious applications
In-Reply-To: <20040224202343.A1A9.3S@seric.es>
References: <20040224202343.A1A9.3S@seric.es>
Message-ID: <40713095-679D-11D8-9573-000A95C61E96@easynet.fr>

Hi,

I'm designing, programming and mantaining such kind of "n-tier"  
applications under Linux (since 1998) and MacOSX (since 2003). Most of  
those apps are designed to be served over the Internet to  Web browsers  
or dedicated proprietary end-users clients.

Those apps are buid around Metacard or Revolution applications servers  
binded, one side, to Apache trough a ".PHP" based TCP/IP sockets  
listener/port translator and, second side, to a PostgreSQL 7.xx DBMS.  
You probably know, as me, that PostgreSQL (in between some others DBMS,  
such Firebird, SABDB or Sybase ASE, realy roocks. At this point, the  
only pending question is to know if the Revolution engine (or his  
father, Metacard) will roocks too, in acting as the applications  
servers engine. The answer is from my own experience fully positive :  
it's YES ! Some of my intensive "80% write-mode" apps are handling up  
to 200 connections/second 12/24 hours 6/7 days (Linux x86, Athlon 800,  
1Go RAM, processor idle state always over 90%) and, i did never have a  
server stop or crash or any else problems from the production beginning  
: just one server restart when the provider has electricity hang-ups  
and, always without problems on the servers them self. I, just, don't  
know, for yet, what is the real charge limit of my MC/RR applications  
servers (400, 800, 1000, 1500, more ? connections/second)...

As, i'm, on the other hand working on a University acad?mic project  
designed as a J2EE solution (Apache+JBoss+EJB2+PostgreSQL under Linux),  
i just can compare one of my MC-based apps, i cloned under the J2EE  
platform : the Java issue is OK too but seems to respond slower to the  
end-users requests.

At this time, i don't expect to switch my production's apps under the  
J2EE platform but, indeed, if i can get enought time, i will work in  
about porting the EJB2 design patterns architecture under the  
Revolution platform.

Ask, off-list, for more precisions, even for a test account on  
productions apps, if needed :-)

Hope this helps,
-- Bien cordialement, Pierre Sahores

100, rue de Paris
F - 77140 Nemours

psahores at easynet.fr

GSM:   +33 6 03 95 77 70
Pro:      +33 1 41 60 52 68
Dom:    +33 1 64 45 05 33
Fax:      +33 1 64 45 05 33

Inspection acad?mique de Seine-Saint-Denis
Applications et SGBD ACID SQL (WEB et PGI)
Penser et produire "delta de productivit?"

Le 25 f?vr. 04, ? 08:02, 3S a ?crit :

> Hi,
>
> has been testing Revolution for a couple of hours and looks a little  
> bit
> inmature. I don't want to be less polite, but my English...
>
> I'm looking for a solution to develop cross platform applications,
> mainly for Linux and Windows. Our first choices was Delphi/Kylix and
> C++, but I found Revolution, cool name :-)
>
> We have to develop multiuser programs like accounting and billing
> software with very intensive database use, the prefered databases are
> PostgreSql and Firebird.
>
> Anybody could point me to samples of "big" applications developed with
> Revolution? Details? Reports? Links?
>
> It is Revolution the right tool? other suggestion?
>
> Regards,
> Jose
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------- 
> ------------------------
> 3S <3s at seric.es>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>


-- 
Bien cordialement, Pierre Sahores

100, rue de Paris
F - 77140 Nemours

psahores at easynet.fr

GSM:   +33 6 03 95 77 70
Pro:      +33 1 41 60 52 68
Dom:    +33 1 64 45 05 33
Fax:      +33 1 64 45 05 33

Inspection acad?mique de Seine-Saint-Denis
Applications et SGBD ACID SQL (WEB et PGI)
Penser et produire "delta de productivit?"


From albrecht at act-net.com  Wed Feb 25 09:20:23 2004
From: albrecht at act-net.com (A.C.T.)
Date: Wed, 25 Feb 2004 15:20:23 +0100
Subject: Serious applications
In-Reply-To: <WorldClient-F200402250802.AA02520309@unitz.ca>
References: <20040224202343.A1A9.3S@seric.es>
	<WorldClient-F200402250802.AA02520309@unitz.ca>
Message-ID: <403CAF27.2080108@act-net.com>

Hi,

>>Anybody could point me to samples of "big" applications developed with
>>Revolution? Details? Reports? Links?
> 
> check out hemmingway, but i have a feeling the majority of large 
> projects are internal, or still being built..

being new to Revolution I won't be able to actually ANSWER the question. 
But perhaps my impressions can be a hint:
I think the GUI building system is quite good, to me it seems better 
than most GUI builders I know. There may be tools that have more bells 
and whistles, but creating a standard interface or even a somewhat 
"bloated" with Revolution is very productive.

What seems to be a major drawback, a REAL PROBLEM in my eyes, is the 
programming "language". I do not intend to call it "bad", don't get me 
wrong here - but you are talking about "big projects" (or "serious 
applications", which I cannot define). You would always have to have 
developers that can "talk transcript", which is not as likely as finding 
professionals that speak C, C++, Java etc. pp. Personally I find it very 
hard to "learn" Transcript (being a stubborn Assembler/machine 
language/C/C++/Shellscript/PHP programmer that hasn't learned anything 
serious) and currently this might be the reason for me to not use 
Revolution at all - to me this is a question of productivity: I have to 
learn a language that does not give me any benefits over those I am 
already familiar with AND I would have to limit external developers to 
those being able to handle this language as well.

When I am talking about "big projects" I am talking about 1-2 years of 
development time (full time) with at least 2 developers envolved. I do 
not know if this is the right scale for Revolution projects at all, but 
I am sure it could be considered possible.

So: Propably "serious applications" are not a problem to do with 
Revolution if you have the time and money to get your code-slaves speak 
Transcript. A well designed project only needs about 30% of time spent 
in writing code, the rest is concept, design etc - so the language is 
only a component of the "code processing" part of the project, with only 
is less than a third of the project, meaning: Revolution is just as good 
as any other IDE - and only just as bad as any poorly designed project.

Marc Albrecht
A.C.T. / level-2
Glinder Str. 2
27432 Ebersdorf
Deutschland
Tel. 04765-830060
Fax. 04765-830064


From albrecht at act-net.com  Wed Feb 25 09:32:32 2004
From: albrecht at act-net.com (A.C.T.)
Date: Wed, 25 Feb 2004 15:32:32 +0100
Subject: RunRev Pricing
In-Reply-To: <5031FA00-679B-11D8-8617-000A9567A3E6@swcp.com>
References: <5031FA00-679B-11D8-8617-000A9567A3E6@swcp.com>
Message-ID: <403CB200.8020507@act-net.com>

Hi, Dar,

> This is important for me to know.  That some percentage are OS X and 
> some greater percentage are pre OS X means little of those of the older 
> OS are not spending money.

Speaking from experiences with my customers (publishers, marketing 
agencies) I can say: Many MAC users still refuse to switch to Mac OS X 
because their applications are not available or suffer from first 
version problems. Many other MAC users cannot switch over due to 
incapable hardware resources and prefer to continue using their machines 
(as these are not faulty) with software they know.
Most of those customers of mine that have switched noticed a (partly 
dramatical) increase in support costs for their Mac clients. Some have 
therefor switched back to Mac OS 9, which results in paragraph one 
observations (stability problems with applications and or users - user 
error, please replace!)

With Quark and Photoshop slowly coming along for Mac OS X the pressure 
to switch to X is increasing. The "installed base" of Mac machines is 
quite large at those customers, so I would tend to say: You will have 
Mac OS <=9 users at least for the next 2 years at a ratio of at least 
40-60% of all installed Macs. It is difficult to predict, though, since 
I do have customers leaving the Mac completely for PCs due to 
cost/support ratios, partly performance issues and others. But that has 
nothing to do with your question, I admit.

No, those not switching are not generally refusing to INVEST. They are 
just refusing to go for the latest Xmas-tree just because it's new. They 
have working tools that they have learned to know for years - and one 
pro of the Mac platform always has been: If you know one application, 
you know all of them. Getting Mac users to "love" a new system (which 
Mac OS X is) is harder than getting a PC user to admit that a Mac has 
advantages at all :-)


A.C.T. / level-2
Glinder Str. 2
27432 Ebersdorf
Deutschland
Tel. 04765-830060
Fax. 04765-830064


From alexadams at mac.com  Wed Feb 25 09:41:14 2004
From: alexadams at mac.com (Alex Adams)
Date: Wed, 25 Feb 2004 08:41:14 -0600
Subject: Serious applications - check these out
Message-ID: <A978E844-67A0-11D8-9292-000A958DEA6A@mac.com>

I suggest you check into Omnis which is a 25+ years mature cross 
platform client/server application development environment that has 
direct connections to most database back ends.  I've been using this 
product since 1989 to great effect.  They also have a powerful web 
solution.  This tool is used by some of the world's largest 
corporations and also by lone developers for very sophisticated, 
multi-enterprise solutions.

Also check out Apple's WebObjects.  New to me, but it looks really good.

Alex Adams
A2 Technology
10013 Hillside North
Austin, TX 78736
alex at a2technology.com
512.394.0019

From 3mcgrath at adelphia.net  Wed Feb 25 09:48:00 2004
From: 3mcgrath at adelphia.net (Thomas McGrath III)
Date: Wed, 25 Feb 2004 09:48:00 -0500
Subject: RunRev Pricing
In-Reply-To: <403CB200.8020507@act-net.com>
References: <5031FA00-679B-11D8-8617-000A9567A3E6@swcp.com>
	<403CB200.8020507@act-net.com>
Message-ID: <9BD18668-67A1-11D8-95F7-000A95DA60FA@adelphia.net>

FWIW,
This has not been my experience for almost two years now. Almost all 
OS9 users that have actually seen OSX in action(usually from my 
machine) have switched. Photoshop is sound and Quark is coming along. 
Office is Ok but anyone who uses OSX even for a few months 'admits' how 
much more productive it really is. The hardest thing was 'Classic' mode 
support. I only have 4 out of over 4,000 applications that could not 
handle the switch and they were very old apps.
I have met a lot of Windows users that were so intrigued by OSX and 
it's productivity increases that they have started to include Macs in 
with their suite of Windows computer only offices. (and most of the old 
arguments they had are no longer there and they are starting to admit 
that , at least to me)

Before the past two years this was the case but now a days I am having 
a hard time finding OS9 users at my professional clients.

I think the word was slow at first but now has picked up speed and the 
switch is happening very fast now.

On Feb 25, 2004, at 9:32 AM, A.C.T. wrote:

>
> With Quark and Photoshop slowly coming along for Mac OS X the pressure 
> to switch to X is increasing. The "installed base" of Mac machines is 
> quite large at those customers, so I would tend to say: You will have 
> Mac OS <=9 users at least for the next 2 years at a ratio of at least 
> 40-60% of all installed Macs. It is difficult to predict, though, 
> since I do have customers leaving the Mac completely for PCs due to 
> cost/support ratios, partly performance issues and others. But that 
> has nothing to do with your question, I admit.

Thomas J. McGrath III
SCS
1000 Killarney Dr.
Pittsburgh, PA 15234
412-885-8541


From dsc at swcp.com  Wed Feb 25 09:51:55 2004
From: dsc at swcp.com (Dar Scott)
Date: Wed, 25 Feb 2004 07:51:55 -0700
Subject: XP Embedded and Revolution
In-Reply-To: <D4B967ED-6664-11D8-AABF-000A9567A3E6@swcp.com>
Message-ID: <27D914F3-67A2-11D8-8617-000A9567A3E6@swcp.com>


On Monday, February 23, 2004, at 06:00 PM, Dar Scott wrote:
> Tuesday morning I will attend a presentation on Windows XP Embedded.
> Has anybody run command-line Revolution on XP Embedded?  Any idea 
> whether that might work?
> How about a regular gui standalone?

We discussed this at the presentation yesterday.  I haven't popped open 
the eval to try it.

An XPe system can be configured in a day.

Normally, Revolution would not be the choice in creating embedded 
systems.  However, Revolution standalones and command-line scripts 
might have a role in larger '86 embedded systems:

   1.  They could be used in quick mockups perhaps with support of 
externals.
   2.  They could play a partial role:
           A.  With c/c++ WIN32 apps doing more critical work.
           B.  With RTX apps doing more critical work.

RTX is an 3rd party add-on to XPe that allows real-time apps to run 
side-by-side with XPe.

It is easy to get started with XPe licensing wise.  $990 for the 
builder (I might be getting names mixed up) and $880 for a ten-pack 
license.

I looked briefly at CE.  That is very different.  You build a 
monolithic program that looks like an OS with apps.  It might go into 
ROM.  It will take much longer to build something.  Months.  Besides 
little control devices, this might be good for things like PDAs.  The 
WIN32 interface is incomplete and behaves a little weird, so most 
programs will need tweaking.  Adding a Revolution engine looks like it 
would take getting a source license, then thinning and re-coding and 
doing lots of testing.  Fortunately, there are good emulation tools.  
So, adding a Revolution engine to one's CE project is a serious 
undertaking.  For that matter, any CE project is serious.  Well, that's 
the impression I got.

Dar Scott


From dburgun at dsl.pipex.com  Wed Feb 25 09:53:51 2004
From: dburgun at dsl.pipex.com (David Burgun)
Date: Wed, 25 Feb 2004 14:53:51 +0000
Subject: RunRev Pricing
In-Reply-To: <403CB200.8020507@act-net.com>
References: <5031FA00-679B-11D8-8617-000A9567A3E6@swcp.com>
 <403CB200.8020507@act-net.com>
Message-ID: <a05210602bc62653d8c81@[192.168.1.100]>

At 3:32 PM +0100 25/2/04, A.C.T. wrote:
>Hi, Dar,
>
>>This is important for me to know.  That some percentage are OS X 
>>and some greater percentage are pre OS X means little of those of 
>>the older OS are not spending money.
>
>Speaking from experiences with my customers (publishers, marketing 
>agencies) I can say: Many MAC users still refuse to switch to Mac OS 
>X because their applications are not available or suffer from first 
>version problems. Many other MAC users cannot switch over due to 
>incapable hardware resources and prefer to continue using their 
>machines (as these are not faulty) with software they know.
>Most of those customers of mine that have switched noticed a (partly 
>dramatical) increase in support costs for their Mac clients. Some 
>have therefor switched back to Mac OS 9, which results in paragraph 
>one observations (stability problems with applications and or users 
>- user error, please replace!)


>With Quark and Photoshop slowly coming along for Mac OS X the 
>pressure to switch to X is increasing. The "installed base" of Mac 
>machines is quite large at those customers, so I would tend to say: 
>You will have Mac OS <=9 users at least for the next 2 years at a 
>ratio of at least 40-60% of all installed Macs. It is difficult to 
>predict, though, since I do have customers leaving the Mac 
>completely for PCs due to cost/support ratios, partly performance 
>issues and others. But that has nothing to do with your question, I 
>admit.

I have to echo this. As far as I can tell a lot of users just don't 
want to upgrade. In one place I visited the support costs had sky 
rocketed and they switched back to MacOS 9 or risked losing their Mac 
altogether and having PCs forced on them. They were lucky, they 
were/are using G4 that could still boot MacOS 9.

It's also the reluctance to take a step backward in terms of UI, the 
MacOS 9 UI is just so dammed good, especially when emblished with 
extentions that improve productivity. I'm a C/C++ developer and just 
navigating around the disk is MUCH faster under 9. The dock in X is 
just terrible!

It also doesn't help having Command Line snippets all over Mac 
magazines like MacWorld etc. It just makes the Mac look geeky and if 
they wanted geeky they would have gotton a PC.


>No, those not switching are not generally refusing to INVEST. They 
>are just refusing to go for the latest Xmas-tree just because it's 
>new. They have working tools that they have learned to know for 
>years - and one pro of the Mac platform always has been: If you know 
>one application, you know all of them. Getting Mac users to "love" a 
>new system (which Mac OS X is) is harder than getting a PC user to 
>admit that a Mac has advantages at all :-)

I agree, I was at a place before Christmas and they had just taken 
Delivery of 5 of the latest G5s and Apple Studio Monitors (the really 
wide ones). When the manager of the department found out they could 
no longer boot MacOS 9, he sent them all back and got PCs and a 
couple of used G4's.

This is happening all over the place and I think the main reason for 
it is the UI. If they had made it more like 9, then I think that 
people would have taken to it more readilly. As it is now, it's like 
driving a car, but all the controls are in weird places, you know you 
can probably get done what you need to get done, but it will take a 
lot more effort, so why bother to change?

Just my 5 cents worth!

Does anyone have a MacOS 9 Run-Rev license they want to sell? Is that allowed?

Your's hopefully.......
All the Best
Dave

From albrecht at act-net.com  Wed Feb 25 10:01:08 2004
From: albrecht at act-net.com (A.C.T.)
Date: Wed, 25 Feb 2004 16:01:08 +0100
Subject: RunRev Pricing
In-Reply-To: <9BD18668-67A1-11D8-95F7-000A95DA60FA@adelphia.net>
References: <5031FA00-679B-11D8-8617-000A9567A3E6@swcp.com>
	<403CB200.8020507@act-net.com>
	<9BD18668-67A1-11D8-95F7-000A95DA60FA@adelphia.net>
Message-ID: <403CB8B4.2090809@act-net.com>

Hi, Thomas,

 > I think the word was slow at first but now has picked up speed and the
 > switch is happening very fast now.

that's why I wrote: It is hard to predict. Maybe it is different on your 
side of the Atlantic ;-) The publishers I work with are generally "old 
fashioned", some of them love working in Quark 2 ... well, "some" is not 
the right work, but at least those exist.

> I have met a lot of Windows users that were so intrigued by OSX and it's 
> productivity increases that they have started to include Macs in with 
> their suite of Windows computer only offices. (and most of the old 
> arguments they had are no longer there and they are starting to admit 
> that , at least to me)

That's fine - and the exact oposite to what I am experiencing. Macs are 
more and more "fleeing" the offices where I walk in and out. Personally 
I can understand that, but that is a completely different story.

As far as the topic of this thread is concerned: I still think it is 
hard to predict what OS on Mac will be dominant for the next 18 months. 
I tend to say it's "Mac OS <X" (9, 8.5 etc), but it is very much 
possible that this only applies to Germany as I do not have to do with 
foreign customers that often.

Marc Albrecht
A.C.T. / level-2
Glinder Str. 2
27432 Ebersdorf
Deutschland
Tel. 04765-830060
Fax. 04765-830064


From 3mcgrath at adelphia.net  Wed Feb 25 09:59:04 2004
From: 3mcgrath at adelphia.net (Thomas McGrath III)
Date: Wed, 25 Feb 2004 09:59:04 -0500
Subject: Serious applications
In-Reply-To: <20040224202343.A1A9.3S@seric.es>
References: <20040224202343.A1A9.3S@seric.es>
Message-ID: <27A6F6E6-67A3-11D8-95F7-000A95DA60FA@adelphia.net>

3S,

You need to give Rev more than just a couple of hours to get a 
realistic feel for how it can help you.

I have turned a few people's addiction to Director upside down with my 
very first Rev product. The company I work for did not understand the 
import of REV as a RAD, BUT the outsource company (mostly Director 
users and flash, saw how much work I was able to get done using a RAD 
tool in such a short amount of time) went out and bought a copy of Rev 
and started learning it right away. I think they felt threatened by Rev 
versus Director for RAD.

The other thing is, if developed and designed properly a product 
produced in REV is not recognizable as a REV product BUT all Director 
end products look the same. If a tools can create a product that no 
longer looks like the tool it came from is a powerful statement about 
that tool. Director can not do this (easily).

So in my opinion that places REV above tools like Director but right 
below tools like Codewarrior which is where it should be. The speed 
increase in using REV for rapid application development and for 
prototyping is great.

Tom

On Feb 25, 2004, at 2:02 AM, 3S wrote:

> has been testing Revolution for a couple of hours and looks a little 
> bit
> inmature

Thomas J. McGrath III
SCS
1000 Killarney Dr.
Pittsburgh, PA 15234
412-885-8541


From psahores at easynet.fr  Wed Feb 25 10:12:25 2004
From: psahores at easynet.fr (Pierre Sahores)
Date: Wed, 25 Feb 2004 16:12:25 +0100
Subject: Serious applications
In-Reply-To: <27A6F6E6-67A3-11D8-95F7-000A95DA60FA@adelphia.net>
References: <20040224202343.A1A9.3S@seric.es>
	<27A6F6E6-67A3-11D8-95F7-000A95DA60FA@adelphia.net>
Message-ID: <04B1831F-67A5-11D8-9573-000A95C61E96@easynet.fr>

100%, the same experience, there :)
-- 
Bien cordialement, Pierre Sahores

100, rue de Paris
F - 77140 Nemours

psahores at easynet.fr

GSM:   +33 6 03 95 77 70
Pro:      +33 1 41 60 52 68
Dom:    +33 1 64 45 05 33
Fax:      +33 1 64 45 05 33

Inspection acad?mique de Seine-Saint-Denis
Applications et SGBD ACID SQL (WEB et PGI)
Penser et produire "delta de productivit?"

Le 25 f?vr. 04, ? 15:59, Thomas McGrath III a ?crit :

> 3S,
>
> You need to give Rev more than just a couple of hours to get a 
> realistic feel for how it can help you.
>
> I have turned a few people's addiction to Director upside down with my 
> very first Rev product. The company I work for did not understand the 
> import of REV as a RAD, BUT the outsource company (mostly Director 
> users and flash, saw how much work I was able to get done using a RAD 
> tool in such a short amount of time) went out and bought a copy of Rev 
> and started learning it right away. I think they felt threatened by 
> Rev versus Director for RAD.
>
> The other thing is, if developed and designed properly a product 
> produced in REV is not recognizable as a REV product BUT all Director 
> end products look the same. If a tools can create a product that no 
> longer looks like the tool it came from is a powerful statement about 
> that tool. Director can not do this (easily).
>
> So in my opinion that places REV above tools like Director but right 
> below tools like Codewarrior which is where it should be. The speed 
> increase in using REV for rapid application development and for 
> prototyping is great.
>
> Tom
>
> On Feb 25, 2004, at 2:02 AM, 3S wrote:
>
>> has been testing Revolution for a couple of hours and looks a little 
>> bit
>> inmature
>
> Thomas J. McGrath III
> SCS
> 1000 Killarney Dr.
> Pittsburgh, PA 15234
> 412-885-8541
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>


From 3mcgrath at adelphia.net  Wed Feb 25 10:16:35 2004
From: 3mcgrath at adelphia.net (Thomas McGrath III)
Date: Wed, 25 Feb 2004 10:16:35 -0500
Subject: RunRev Pricing
In-Reply-To: <403CB8B4.2090809@act-net.com>
References: <5031FA00-679B-11D8-8617-000A9567A3E6@swcp.com>
	<403CB200.8020507@act-net.com>
	<9BD18668-67A1-11D8-95F7-000A95DA60FA@adelphia.net>
	<403CB8B4.2090809@act-net.com>
Message-ID: <99DC5502-67A5-11D8-95F7-000A95DA60FA@adelphia.net>

Marc,

Yeah, I can't speak for across the ocean but only here on the east 
coast of the US. If I read your and others responses correctly then I 
would assume that for at least 18 months OS9 will be the dominant OS 
where you are. Most things I have seen are either 18 months behind or 
ahead, like cell phone technology is 18 months behind here and fashion 
is 18 months behind but a lot of music is 18 months ahead. This is not 
always the case but it tends to be true.

SO if OS9 is still the dominant OS now for your market then you may see 
what I am seeing over the next 18 months. Apple is pushing in that 
direction and they can be persuasive. But Mac users can be the most 
stubborn users in the world.

But, I stand by my statement: "OSX has proved to me that my 
productivity has doubled since I switched and with each new flavor of 
OSX has only gotten better." I have always been a user that would 
'rather use my computer than fix/twiddle with my computer'. and OSX 
allows for both. I can get more work done now in such a little amount 
of time that my bosses have started to throw way too much work at me 
and expecting me to get it done.

Case in point: I finished all of my code work on Friday and am just 
turning it in today Wednesday ONLY because I can't let them expect that 
quick of a turn around. That is due to OSX and also to how quickly I 
can work in REV.

.02 + .02 + .02

Tom

On Feb 25, 2004, at 10:01 AM, A.C.T. wrote:

> Hi, Thomas,
>
> > I think the word was slow at first but now has picked up speed and 
> the
> > switch is happening very fast now.
>
> that's why I wrote: It is hard to predict. Maybe it is different on 
> your side of the Atlantic ;-) The publishers I work with are generally 
> "old fashioned", some of them love working in Quark 2 ... well, "some" 
> is not the right work, but at least those exist.
>
>> I have met a lot of Windows users that were so intrigued by OSX and 
>> it's productivity increases that they have started to include Macs in 
>> with their suite of Windows computer only offices. (and most of the 
>> old arguments they had are no longer there and they are starting to 
>> admit that , at least to me)
>
> That's fine - and the exact oposite to what I am experiencing. Macs 
> are more and more "fleeing" the offices where I walk in and out. 
> Personally I can understand that, but that is a completely different 
> story.
>
> As far as the topic of this thread is concerned: I still think it is 
> hard to predict what OS on Mac will be dominant for the next 18 
> months. I tend to say it's "Mac OS <X" (9, 8.5 etc), but it is very 
> much possible that this only applies to Germany as I do not have to do 
> with foreign customers that often.
>
> Marc Albrecht
> A.C.T. / level-2
> Glinder Str. 2
> 27432 Ebersdorf
> Deutschland
> Tel. 04765-830060
> Fax. 04765-830064
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>
>

Thomas J. McGrath III
SCS
1000 Killarney Dr.
Pittsburgh, PA 15234
412-885-8541


From nrkweto03 at hotmail.com  Wed Feb 25 10:23:24 2004
From: nrkweto03 at hotmail.com (kweto)
Date: Thu, 26 Feb 2004 00:23:24 +0900
Subject: are image objects moveable?
References: <5031FA00-679B-11D8-8617-000A9567A3E6@swcp.com>
	<403CB200.8020507@act-net.com> <a05210602bc62653d8c81@[192.168.1.100]>
Message-ID: <Law9-OE58DKpzxDPHpr00003144@hotmail.com>

Is there a (simple) way of enabling a user to use a mouse to pick up an
image object and then move it around on a card? I.e., click and hold on an
image with mouse left-button, move image by moving mouse, and then release
mouse left-button.

Also, if the reason for moving the image object is to place it into a
container, then, what type of object would serve best as a container (image
object? button object?), and how would I identify when the moved image
object is on/over the container?

Thank you.

--
Nicolas Cueto

From DVGlasgow at aol.com  Wed Feb 25 10:35:53 2004
From: DVGlasgow at aol.com (DVGlasgow at aol.com)
Date: Wed, 25 Feb 2004 10:35:53 EST
Subject: Re revSpeak, Win XP, memory bloat.....Stupid Agents
Message-ID: <1e.237eadf1.2d6e1ad9@aol.com>


In a message dated 25/2/04 2:18:53 pm, Mathewson writes:

<< The idea is.....  have a few silent MOV files with
zombie-character mouthing (i.e.e meant to look like
speaking) and then loads of revSpeak lines in fields that
can be paired with the MOVs....not completely daft! >>

Hmmm.  Not sure I follow all this.  Maybe you want to look at Toon Boom 
Studio.  This will animte a cartoon character to plausibly appear to speak the 
words in a sound file.  I have never tried it, but I am thinking of giving it  a 
whirl.  It will almost certainly better than any home spun mouth flapping you 
could script.  Once  TBS has done its stuff, just play the results in QT.

Best wishes,

David Glasgow

<A HREF="http://www.i-Psych.co.uk">i-Psych</A>

Forensic Clinical Psychology Software & Services

From rcozens at pon.net  Wed Feb 25 09:17:06 2004
From: rcozens at pon.net (Rob Cozens)
Date: Wed, 25 Feb 2004 07:17:06 -0700
Subject: Serious applications
In-Reply-To: <403CAF27.2080108@act-net.com>
References: <20040224202343.A1A9.3S@seric.es>
 <WorldClient-F200402250802.AA02520309@unitz.ca>
 <403CAF27.2080108@act-net.com>
Message-ID: <a05100300bc625ad76cda@[66.52.165.38]>

>to me this is a question of productivity: I have to learn a language 
>that does not give me any benefits over those I am already familiar

Look a little harder, Marc.

Productivity?

How many lines of C does it take to replicate the functionality of 
the "new stack" and "new card" commands?

How many lines of C does it take to "get word 3 of item 6 of line 17 
of someText?

Can you change a library routine, replace the library file, and rerun 
all your C applications that use the library without relinking & 
redistributing the standalone?  I can & do with Transcript.

I've programmed professionally in FORTRAN, DYL-260, RPG II, COBOL, 
Basic, PL/1, Pascal, Modula, C, FlexWare, HyperTalk, & Transcript. 
IMFO, C rates below PL/1, Pascal, Modula, HyperTalk, & Transcript.

You won't appreciate the benefits of Transcript until you become more 
familiar with it.  The C way of doing things is not the only way, and 
I submit it is not the best way available.
-- 

Rob Cozens
CCW, Serendipity Software Company
http://www.oenolog.net/who.htm

"And I, which was two fooles, do so grow three;
Who are a little wise, the best fooles bee."

from "The Triple Foole" by John Donne (1572-1631)

From rcozens at pon.net  Wed Feb 25 09:43:16 2004
From: rcozens at pon.net (Rob Cozens)
Date: Wed, 25 Feb 2004 07:43:16 -0700
Subject: Serious applications
In-Reply-To: <20040224202343.A1A9.3S@seric.es>
References: <20040224202343.A1A9.3S@seric.es>
Message-ID: <a05100301bc625f026756@[66.52.165.38]>

>has been testing Revolution for a couple of hours and looks a little bit
>inmature

Hi Jose,

Looks can be deceiving: there is power in simplicity.

I have used Transcript to create a generic, hierarchical, 
client/server database.  I am working on a project to convert to 
Transcript an existing suite of HyperTalk business applications, 
currently installed throughout North America &  in New Zealand.  I am 
also in the process of converting a HyperTalk wine production control 
system to Transcript that, when completed will be marketed world-wide 
in a single, multi-lingual, user-translatable version.

The stack script of Serendipity Library is now approaching 5,000 
lines, and someone recently mentioned maintaining a script in excess 
of 8,000 lines.  Add up all the scripts of all the objects involved 
in either application, and I expect you will get a non-trivial result.

To paraphrase a comment I posted previously: as former chair of the 
local MUG's HyperTalk SIG, I have seen "real" (as in "working") 
applications created in HyperTalk by people with no prior programming 
experience; people who in my estimation couldn't write one small 
routine in C.  So which is more immature in terms of software 
development evolution, an environment that nobody but the initiated 
can use at all, or an environment where even non-IS grads can create 
software that is meaningful to them?  If I showed you an oil painting 
done by a 10 year old, could you judge whether the oils & brushes 
used were suitable for a professional artist?

Focus your evaluation on capabilities, not syntax.
-- 

Rob Cozens
CCW, Serendipity Software Company
http://www.oenolog.net/who.htm

"And I, which was two fooles, do so grow three;
Who are a little wise, the best fooles bee."

from "The Triple Foole" by John Donne (1572-1631)

From gbojsza at mac.com  Wed Feb 25 10:48:56 2004
From: gbojsza at mac.com (Bojsza)
Date: Wed, 25 Feb 2004 09:48:56 -0600
Subject: Array Basics
Message-ID: <1EEFCEEF-67AA-11D8-A24B-003065F00EF2@mac.com>

I am starting to forage into arrays and have some very basic questions:

1. What is the difference between an array and a matrix?

The following script is to take a 3x1 array and multiply it by a 1x3 
array

on mouseUp
   put empty into xArray
   put empty into zArray
   put "1 2 3" into xArray
   split xArray by space -- create an array from a list (3x1 array)
   put "2 3 4" into zArray -- create a 1x3 array
matrixMultiply(xArray,zArray)
put it into arrayOut
end mouseUp

The script editor errors with the following:

Expression: missing ' ) ' before factor.

2. I know that I can go from a list to an array with the split command. 
Can I go from an array to a list also using the split command?

3. Can I create an array with a variable ie a 3x1 array with angle as a 
variable?

atan(angle)
cos(angle)
sin(angle)

thanks,

Glen


From 3mcgrath at adelphia.net  Wed Feb 25 10:49:46 2004
From: 3mcgrath at adelphia.net (Thomas McGrath III)
Date: Wed, 25 Feb 2004 10:49:46 -0500
Subject: custom buttons
In-Reply-To: <403C5BCC.7090806@chipp.com>
References: <CF058258-6748-11D8-95F7-000A95DA60FA@adelphia.net>
	<403C5BCC.7090806@chipp.com>
Message-ID: <3C7A968C-67AA-11D8-95F7-000A95DA60FA@adelphia.net>

Chipp,

That won't do what I want. I need to combine two images in one button 
and then have it act like one button as a 'real' button.

I have a special button look and feel and want to include that. Then I 
want to put a special icon into that special button look and feel. Then 
I want it to act like a default button or like a regular button.

I guess if I can figure out how to combine the two I can add the other 
button states.

But, I want to know if there is a way to gain access to the internal 
buttons in REV and alter them?
THe shadow button does not have a good gradation for me in it's shadow 
and the curved corners are not curved enough to look and feel like the 
ones I'm emulating.

Tom

On Feb 25, 2004, at 3:24 AM, Chipp Walters wrote:

> Tom,
>
> check out www.buttongadget.com
>
> -Chipp
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>
>

Thomas J. McGrath III
SCS
1000 Killarney Dr.
Pittsburgh, PA 15234
412-885-8541


From malte.brill at t-online.de  Wed Feb 25 10:52:42 2004
From: malte.brill at t-online.de (Malte Brill)
Date: Wed, 25 Feb 2004 16:52:42 +0100
Subject: are image objects moveable?
In-Reply-To: <20040225141734.B902993006E@mail.runrev.com>
Message-ID: <BC62835A.1A6C%malte.brill@t-online.de>

Hi Nicolas,

you might want to put something like this into the images script:

on mousemove x,y
  if the mouse is down then
    set the loc of me to x,y
  end if
end mouseMove

If you want to check if the object is over another object you might want to
use the intersect function for a start:

if intersect (img "myimage",img "myImage2") then
  --do your stuff here
end if

Put it into the mousemove handler.

Hope that helps to get you started. There are more advanced techniques to
move an object (search the archives for uAllowDrag)

Best,

Malte


From 3mcgrath at adelphia.net  Wed Feb 25 10:53:26 2004
From: 3mcgrath at adelphia.net (Thomas McGrath III)
Date: Wed, 25 Feb 2004 10:53:26 -0500
Subject: revSpeak, Win XP, memory bloat.....Stupid Agents
In-Reply-To: <web-314956719@mail.maclaunch.com>
References: <web-314956719@mail.maclaunch.com>
Message-ID: <BF93844E-67AA-11D8-95F7-000A95DA60FA@adelphia.net>

I agree with the Bloat that mov.'s and sounds will produce. I tried a  
'computer buddy' app in SC and found two much bloat.

FWIW You can license DEC talk on Windows and Mac and include them with  
your software. DEC talk is not that great but is widely used.

I know a company that does this. Then you can use revSpeak with them.


Tom

On Feb 25, 2004, at 2:52 AM, Mathewson wrote:

> UMM!
>
>   So to use revSpeak at present in Win XP we have to go
> back to the future (i.e. the usual Windows nonsense)....
>
>   So here's Richmond happily building a prototype
> Intelligent Agent....
> (!!!  Yes, Really  !!!)
>
> Complete with zombie-like character revSpeaking the usual
> daft phrases (remember 'Max Headroom' ?  OK, OK, I'm Scots
> and I'm 42)....and why, you ask, is R so daft...why doesn't
> he use AIFF files or MOV ones?
>
> Because......they have to be embedded...and not everybody
> (unlike Richmond, swank, swank) has an all-singing,
> all-dancing G4 multi-processing, coffee-making,
> personal-massaging computer with oodles of RAM.
>
> The idea is.....  have a few silent MOV files with
> zombie-character mouthing (i.e.e meant to look like
> speaking) and then loads of revSpeak lines in fields that
> can be paired with the MOVs....not completely daft!
>
> However.....with XP and all the other SAPPY WIN systems
> being out of sync. with RR this is a real 'bother'.....
>
> Bright ideas PLEASE!!!
>
> Love, Abuse, Richmond Mathewson
> __________________________________________________
> See Mathewson's software at:
>
> http://members.maclaunch.com/richmond/default.html    and
> http://www.runrev.com/Revolution1/developercentral/ 
> usercontributions.html
> _______________________________________
> ---------------------------------------------------------------
> Great Macintosh Products
>  The MacLaunch Store!  
> http://www.maclaunch.com/cgi-launch/store/agora.cgi
> ---------------------------------------------------------------
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>
>

Thomas J. McGrath III
SCS
1000 Killarney Dr.
Pittsburgh, PA 15234
412-885-8541


From 3mcgrath at adelphia.net  Wed Feb 25 11:01:19 2004
From: 3mcgrath at adelphia.net (Thomas McGrath III)
Date: Wed, 25 Feb 2004 11:01:19 -0500
Subject: Serious applications
In-Reply-To: <a05100301bc625f026756@[66.52.165.38]>
References: <20040224202343.A1A9.3S@seric.es>
	<a05100301bc625f026756@[66.52.165.38]>
Message-ID: <D9754A2B-67AB-11D8-95F7-000A95DA60FA@adelphia.net>

Not to mention that REV can be configured by you to allow a lab 
approach for different coders to work on different aspects at the same 
time (Libraries and shared function names). That would be real RAD + 
RAD increasing the time.

Now, I do know of some areas where REV won't work. My client has a 
proprietary hardware device with limited memory available and codes in 
C. REV has too large of a footprint for this. BUT I am currently 
designing a fast development tool for testing the software for use in 
those devices. Right now it takes them 3-6 months to 'try' a new 
approach in their system and with a REV version on the desktop they can 
test functionality changes in a few days or weeks. Once i am done I 
plan on selling it to them and showing them how they can increase time 
to market by testing first in my product and then porting/coding in C 
for the final install.

I am very excited about this because if I do this in REV then I can add 
modules to it for them to use as presentation materials and other neat 
things right from the start.

Tom

On Feb 25, 2004, at 9:43 AM, Rob Cozens wrote:

>> has been testing Revolution for a couple of hours and looks a little 
>> bit
>> inmature
>
> Hi Jose,
>
> Looks can be deceiving: there is power in simplicity.
>
> I have used Transcript to create a generic, hierarchical, 
> client/server database.  I am working on a project to convert to 
> Transcript an existing suite of HyperTalk business applications, 
> currently installed throughout North America &  in New Zealand.  I am 
> also in the process of converting a HyperTalk wine production control 
> system to Transcript that, when completed will be marketed world-wide 
> in a single, multi-lingual, user-translatable version.
>
> The stack script of Serendipity Library is now approaching 5,000 
> lines, and someone recently mentioned maintaining a script in excess 
> of 8,000 lines.  Add up all the scripts of all the objects involved in 
> either application, and I expect you will get a non-trivial result.
>
> To paraphrase a comment I posted previously: as former chair of the 
> local MUG's HyperTalk SIG, I have seen "real" (as in "working") 
> applications created in HyperTalk by people with no prior programming 
> experience; people who in my estimation couldn't write one small 
> routine in C.  So which is more immature in terms of software 
> development evolution, an environment that nobody but the initiated 
> can use at all, or an environment where even non-IS grads can create 
> software that is meaningful to them?  If I showed you an oil painting 
> done by a 10 year old, could you judge whether the oils & brushes used 
> were suitable for a professional artist?
>
> Focus your evaluation on capabilities, not syntax.
> -- 
>
> Rob Cozens
> CCW, Serendipity Software Company
> http://www.oenolog.net/who.htm
>
> "And I, which was two fooles, do so grow three;
> Who are a little wise, the best fooles bee."
>
> from "The Triple Foole" by John Donne (1572-1631)
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>
>

Thomas J. McGrath III
SCS
1000 Killarney Dr.
Pittsburgh, PA 15234
412-885-8541


From ian at azurevision.co.uk  Wed Feb 25 11:15:35 2004
From: ian at azurevision.co.uk (Ian Wood)
Date: Wed, 25 Feb 2004 16:15:35 +0000
Subject: Proportions of OS pre-X & OS X users (was: RunRev Pricing)
In-Reply-To: <99DC5502-67A5-11D8-95F7-000A95DA60FA@adelphia.net>
References: <5031FA00-679B-11D8-8617-000A9567A3E6@swcp.com>
	<403CB200.8020507@act-net.com>
	<9BD18668-67A1-11D8-95F7-000A95DA60FA@adelphia.net>
	<403CB8B4.2090809@act-net.com>
	<99DC5502-67A5-11D8-95F7-000A95DA60FA@adelphia.net>
Message-ID: <D7EF23AA-67AD-11D8-9B9E-0003935A2896@azurevision.co.uk>

My experience in the UK is that the print industry is the most 
resistant, mainly because they often have complex workflows and it 
would take time to reproduce those workflows on OS X.  In addition, the 
print industry is so hard-pressed that they often run very old 
equipment, my local (tiny) print shop runs QuarkXPress 3 on a 75MHz 
Performa!  To run OS X they would have to replace everything from 
scratch, including most of their SCSI peripherals.  X is great if you 
have modern equipment, but I wouldn't want to run it on anything less 
than a 350MHz G3 with lots of RAM.

Basically, if you have a complex workflow, you don't want to risk 
getting it messed up.

Another factor is IT training.  Most computer users have simply 
memorised where the bits they need are.  A good example is Control 
Panels.  Once you have shown someone where the System Preferences are, 
they don't need any further help with that bit, because it is so much 
better laid out.  If you are prepared to get in someone who knows their 
way around and give you a guided tour, it is absurdly easy to upgrade.  
I do a lot of this for local artists, and get more phonecalls about 
!X?&?@ epson printer drivers playing up than i do about the rest of OS 
X put together.  In general, if people are finding that their support 
costs are going up sharply they probably haven't done their 
homework/research/training in the first place, and also do silly things 
like installing every upgrade as soon as it comes out and not waiting a 
week or two to hear about bugs.  That said, there have been some 
decidedly 'beta' quality software releases from Apple recently...

Most people who are prepared to spend a couple of days learning where 
things are love X and wouldn't go back to 9 unless you held them up at 
gunpoint, me included...

For reference, my sales are around 10% Win, 20% OS <X and 70% OS X, but 
that is software for panoramic photographers who tend to need 
powerful/new computers anyway, and is worldwide sales rather than just 
Europe.

Ian Wood

P.S.  I second the bit about doubling productivity on X, if just 
because of instant wake from sleep and a laptop that hasn't been 
switched off for a month.

On 25 Feb 2004, at 15:16, Thomas McGrath III wrote:

> Marc,
>
<snip>
> But, I stand by my statement: "OSX has proved to me that my 
> productivity has doubled since I switched and with each new flavor of 
> OSX has only gotten better." I have always been a user that would 
> 'rather use my computer than fix/twiddle with my computer'. and OSX 
> allows for both. I can get more work done now in such a little amount 
> of time that my bosses have started to throw way too much work at me 
> and expecting me to get it done.
>
<snip>
> Tom
>
> On Feb 25, 2004, at 10:01 AM, A.C.T. wrote:
>
>> Hi, Thomas,
>>
>> > I think the word was slow at first but now has picked up speed and 
>> the
>> > switch is happening very fast now.
>>
>> that's why I wrote: It is hard to predict. Maybe it is different on 
>> your side of the Atlantic ;-) The publishers I work with are 
>> generally "old fashioned", some of them love working in Quark 2 ... 
>> well, "some" is not the right work, but at least those exist.
>>
>>> I have met a lot of Windows users that were so intrigued by OSX and 
>>> it's productivity increases that they have started to include Macs 
>>> in with their suite of Windows computer only offices. (and most of 
>>> the old arguments they had are no longer there and they are starting 
>>> to admit that , at least to me)
>>
>> That's fine - and the exact oposite to what I am experiencing. Macs 
>> are more and more "fleeing" the offices where I walk in and out. 
>> Personally I can understand that, but that is a completely different 
>> story.
>>
>> As far as the topic of this thread is concerned: I still think it is 
>> hard to predict what OS on Mac will be dominant for the next 18 
>> months. I tend to say it's "Mac OS <X" (9, 8.5 etc), but it is very 
>> much possible that this only applies to Germany as I do not have to 
>> do with foreign customers that often.
>>
>> Marc Albrecht
>
> Thomas J. McGrath III


From jacque at hyperactivesw.com  Wed Feb 25 11:26:57 2004
From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay)
Date: Wed, 25 Feb 2004 10:26:57 -0600
Subject: custom buttons
In-Reply-To: <3C7A968C-67AA-11D8-95F7-000A95DA60FA@adelphia.net>
References: <CF058258-6748-11D8-95F7-000A95DA60FA@adelphia.net>
	<403C5BCC.7090806@chipp.com>
	<3C7A968C-67AA-11D8-95F7-000A95DA60FA@adelphia.net>
Message-ID: <403CCCD1.5000100@hyperactivesw.com>

On 2/25/04 9:49 AM, Thomas McGrath III wrote:

> Chipp,
> 
> That won't do what I want. I need to combine two images in one button 
> and then have it act like one button as a 'real' button.
> 
> I have a special button look and feel and want to include that. Then I 
> want to put a special icon into that special button look and feel. Then 
> I want it to act like a default button or like a regular button.

The usual way to do this is to create the entire button as an image in a 
graphics program. Include the actual button shape itself, as well as its 
"icon," as a single image. Make two of these, one for the "up" state and 
another for the "down" state. Then create a transparent button and set 
its icon to the "up" state image, and its hilitedicon to the "down" 
state image.

You get all the button behaviors and messages automatically, but the 
user sees only the icon, which looks like a button.

-- 
Jacqueline Landman Gay         |     jacque at hyperactivesw.com
HyperActive Software           |     http://www.hyperactivesw.com

From ops at myesa.com  Wed Feb 25 11:34:34 2004
From: ops at myesa.com (Ops)
Date: Wed, 25 Feb 2004 10:34:34 -0600
Subject: Serious applications
In-Reply-To: <403CAF27.2080108@act-net.com>
References: <20040224202343.A1A9.3S@seric.es>
	<WorldClient-F200402250802.AA02520309@unitz.ca> <403CAF27.2080108@act-net.com>
Message-ID: <403CCE9A.3040705@myesa.com>



A.C.T. wrote:
  <snip>
> You would always have to have 
> developers that can "talk transcript", which is not as likely as finding 
> professionals that speak C, C++, Java etc. pp. Personally I find it very 
> hard to "learn" Transcript (being a stubborn Assembler/machine 
> language/C/C++/Shellscript/PHP programmer that hasn't learned anything 
> serious) and currently this might be the reason for me to not use 
> Revolution at all 

I am a C, C++ veteran and have coded many large projects through the 
years.  I had my "hands around" Transcript in a few evenings and am 
working on a "serious" project of which I had a fairly extensive demo 
ready in a matter of a few weeks that would have taken 6 - 12 months to 
code in C/C++...For me (as well as *many* others), Transcript was (by 
far) the easiest environment/language to learn that I've ever 
encountered in my 20+ year programming career.

> to me this is a question of productivity: I have to 
> learn a language that does not give me any benefits over those I am 
> already familiar with AND I would have to limit external developers to 
> those being able to handle this language as well.

With all due respect, if you haven't taken the (short) time to 
adequately familiarize yourself with Transcript, then IMHO you have 
reached your conclusions without proper due-diligence.  Expose your 
developers to Rev/Transcript and see that those that embrace it will 
multiply their productivity by factors that will astound you...in a time 
frame that will be equally astonishing...

I have NOT abandoned C/C++ (as well as other technologies).  I utilize 
Revolution's externals ability when appropriate, and because of my own 
productivity gains, have realized the futility of my past practices 
where I have coded 100% of my projects in 3rd generation languages.

Just .02 from someone who took the time (a few evenings) to embrace 
Rev/Transcript.  NO DISRESPECT intended by that statement Marc, just "a 
fact" that I have experienced firsthand...I was skeptical too, and 
astounded *myself* at what I've been accomplishing utilizing this new 
programming model (Rev + externals).

Opie

From 3mcgrath at adelphia.net  Wed Feb 25 11:35:26 2004
From: 3mcgrath at adelphia.net (Thomas McGrath III)
Date: Wed, 25 Feb 2004 11:35:26 -0500
Subject: custom buttons
In-Reply-To: <403CCCD1.5000100@hyperactivesw.com>
References: <CF058258-6748-11D8-95F7-000A95DA60FA@adelphia.net>
	<403C5BCC.7090806@chipp.com>
	<3C7A968C-67AA-11D8-95F7-000A95DA60FA@adelphia.net>
	<403CCCD1.5000100@hyperactivesw.com>
Message-ID: <9DED2798-67B0-11D8-95F7-000A95DA60FA@adelphia.net>

Jac,

But since I am dealing with hundreds and hundreds of buttons And users 
will be adding custom buttons icons I want to do the combining from 
within REV. The base button will be only about 3-5 types but the icons 
on those will be in the hundreds and maybe thousands. But only a 
hundred or so at a time.
I would have thousands of buttons with up down etc. that way.

So I thought if my button shape were like the ones found in rev (Except 
the os specific ones) then adding the icon would be like it is now.

Tom


On Feb 25, 2004, at 11:26 AM, J. Landman Gay wrote:

> On 2/25/04 9:49 AM, Thomas McGrath III wrote:
>
>> Chipp,
>> That won't do what I want. I need to combine two images in one button 
>> and then have it act like one button as a 'real' button.
>> I have a special button look and feel and want to include that. Then 
>> I want to put a special icon into that special button look and feel. 
>> Then I want it to act like a default button or like a regular button.
>
> The usual way to do this is to create the entire button as an image in 
> a graphics program. Include the actual button shape itself, as well as 
> its "icon," as a single image. Make two of these, one for the "up" 
> state and another for the "down" state. Then create a transparent 
> button and set its icon to the "up" state image, and its hilitedicon 
> to the "down" state image.
>
> You get all the button behaviors and messages automatically, but the 
> user sees only the icon, which looks like a button.
>
> -- 
> Jacqueline Landman Gay         |     jacque at hyperactivesw.com
> HyperActive Software           |     http://www.hyperactivesw.com
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>
>

Thomas J. McGrath III
SCS
1000 Killarney Dr.
Pittsburgh, PA 15234
412-885-8541


From jtenny at willamette.edu  Wed Feb 25 11:35:53 2004
From: jtenny at willamette.edu (John Tenny)
Date: Wed, 25 Feb 2004 08:35:53 -0800
Subject: RunRev Pricing
In-Reply-To: <99DC5502-67A5-11D8-95F7-000A95DA60FA@adelphia.net>
References: <5031FA00-679B-11D8-8617-000A9567A3E6@swcp.com>
	<403CB200.8020507@act-net.com>
	<9BD18668-67A1-11D8-95F7-000A95DA60FA@adelphia.net>
	<403CB8B4.2090809@act-net.com>
	<99DC5502-67A5-11D8-95F7-000A95DA60FA@adelphia.net>
Message-ID: <AE0CF358-67B0-11D8-A716-000A95A4EDD2@willamette.edu>

I'm a "Technology Integration Mentor" for 6 universities (Education 
Departments)  on the US West coast, and all have switched to OS X (one 
even moving from Windows to Mac). All have increased wireless 
dramatically on their campuses, and all have portable classroom sets of 
laptops. In my small circle the switch has not been slow at all, with 
all the switching happening this academic year.

John


From rcozens at pon.net  Wed Feb 25 10:41:06 2004
From: rcozens at pon.net (Rob Cozens)
Date: Wed, 25 Feb 2004 08:41:06 -0700
Subject: Serious applications
Message-ID: <a05100300bc6270988942@[66.52.165.26]>

>Productivity?

The following is not a rhetorical question: I asked this once before 
& did not see an answer posted.

Does the CW, or any C debugger, debug at the source code level?

Can the C testing environment take you directly to the line of code 
generating a runtime error? ...and let you change the offending code, 
close the script, and continue testing without recompiling & 
relinking?

-- 

Rob Cozens
CCW, Serendipity Software Company
http://www.oenolog.net/who.htm

"And I, which was two fooles, do so grow three;
Who are a little wise, the best fooles bee."

from "The Triple Foole" by John Donne (1572-1631)

From joel.guillod at net2000.ch  Wed Feb 25 11:49:55 2004
From: joel.guillod at net2000.ch (Jo=?ISO-8859-1?B?6w==?=l Guillod)
Date: Wed, 25 Feb 2004 17:49:55 +0100
Subject: Serious applications - check these out
In-Reply-To: <20040225151711.0846B930081@mail.runrev.com>
Message-ID: <BC6290C2.2CFE%joel.guillod@net2000.ch>

On 25.2.2004 16:17, Alex Adams wrote?:

> Also check out Apple's WebObjects.  New to me, but it looks really good.

YES, actually it is!

And of course reliable and easy small to large scale deployment: the Apple
store runs under WebObjects. I use it for medical images database and image
processing via web pages: see http://www.imed.ch/dermoscopy .

Surely more easy to maintain than Revolution scriptsin large projects but it
takes time to learn all the many Java Classes for efficient developement.

Joel Guillod


From rcozens at pon.net  Wed Feb 25 11:04:24 2004
From: rcozens at pon.net (Rob Cozens)
Date: Wed, 25 Feb 2004 09:04:24 -0700
Subject: Serious applications
Message-ID: <a05100300bc6274de8a22@[66.52.165.10]>

>has been testing Revolution for a couple of hours and looks a little bit
>inmature

Jose, et al:

It occurs to me that my initial take was to associate "immature" with 
"beginner-ish" & "amateurish", terms previously seen in this context.

However, "immature" can also mean "in a juvenile state of 
development", and in that regard Revolution IS immature.  There ARE 
bugs & rough edges, and the Rev Dev interface lacks touches that can 
only come over time...that's what the process of maturing is all 
about.

So, yes, Jose: Runtime Revolution is just a three-year-old.  Just 
extrapolate to when it's five.  And know also:

Under the hood is the MetaCard engine that's now a teenager

The xTalk syntax that drives it is also in its teens.

And the users of your applications never see the Rev Dev environment: 
they see your xTalk scripts run by the MetaCard engine.

Rob Cozens
CCW, Serendipity Software Company
http://www.oenolog.net/who.htm

"And I, which was two fooles, do so grow three;
Who are a little wise, the best fooles bee."

from "The Triple Foole" by John Donne (1572-1631)

From alex at mindlube.com  Wed Feb 25 12:10:26 2004
From: alex at mindlube.com (Alex Rice)
Date: Wed, 25 Feb 2004 10:10:26 -0700
Subject: Serious applications
In-Reply-To: <a05100300bc6270988942@[66.52.165.26]>
References: <a05100300bc6270988942@[66.52.165.26]>
Message-ID: <811CA465-67B5-11D8-B273-000393C4760A@mindlube.com>


On Feb 25, 2004, at 8:41 AM, Rob Cozens wrote:

>
> The following is not a rhetorical question: I asked this once before & 
> did not see an answer posted.
>
> Does the CW, or any C debugger, debug at the source code level?

Absolutely. Many C IDEs have debuggers that shame Runrev's "debugger". 
Apple's XCode being my favorite. XCode's integration with the IDE's 
code editor is seamless also.

One day I hope Runrev can offer a better debugger. It's still a mystery 
to me how Runrev can have a higher level, more dynamic, more flexible 
language, but have a worse debugger than many C IDEs. I hope it's more 
attributable to growing pains, than to something fundamental with the 
engine.

> Can the C testing environment take you directly to the line of code 
> generating a runtime error? ...and let you change the offending code, 
> close the script, and continue testing without recompiling & 
> relinking?

Yep, modern C compilers are pretty smart. Some, like IBM and Symantec, 
have had "imcremental compilation" for a while now. Where the 
compile/link step is all but eliminated.

Apple's XCode has a couple of features "Zero Link" and "Fix and 
Continue". With those features turned on, compilation is more or less 
immediate. "Fix and Continue" means changing code without restarting 
the app.

Even more amazing about XCode is it's free and uses the GCC/GDB tool 
chain which is standard across most Unixes. 
<http://www.apple.com/macosx/features/xcode/>

None of this stuff is *as fast* as Command-0, Command-9 in Runrev to go 
from Pointer Tool to Browse Tool, however.

But more and more the compile/link part of C programming is being 
"hidden" as an option. Don't anyone think I'm advocating C/C++ over 
Runrev. Keep C where it belongs: for writing runrev externals only :-)

--
Alex Rice | Mindlube Software | http://mindlube.com


From scott at tactilemedia.com  Wed Feb 25 12:10:55 2004
From: scott at tactilemedia.com (Scott Rossi)
Date: Wed, 25 Feb 2004 09:10:55 -0800
Subject: custom buttons
In-Reply-To: <403CCCD1.5000100@hyperactivesw.com>
Message-ID: <BC62171F.A45A%scott@tactilemedia.com>

Recently, "J. Landman Gay"  wrote:

> I need to combine two images in one button
>> and then have it act like one button as a 'real' button.
>> 
>> I have a special button look and feel and want to include that. Then I
>> want to put a special icon into that special button look and feel. Then
>> I want it to act like a default button or like a regular button.
> 
> The usual way to do this is to create the entire button as an image in a
> graphics program. Include the actual button shape itself, as well as its
> "icon," as a single image. Make two of these, one for the "up" state and
> another for the "down" state. Then create a transparent button and set
> its icon to the "up" state image, and its hilitedicon to the "down"
> state image.

To add to the above:

If you want a scalable image button, you would need to combine the separate
sections of the button image into a group and use the group as a button.  If
you want a button that only scales horizontally, you need a minimum of 3
items: left, center and right (scale the center element).  If you want a
button that scales in both directions, it gets more complex as you need a
3x3 grid of elements and you scale only the center cell.  It's work, but it
can be done.

Regards,

Scott Rossi
Creative Director
Tactile Media, Multimedia & Design
-----
E: scott at tactilemedia.com
W: http://www.tactilemedia.com


From marty at vertex.ucls.uchicago.edu  Wed Feb 25 12:12:44 2004
From: marty at vertex.ucls.uchicago.edu (Marty Billingsley)
Date: Wed, 25 Feb 2004 11:12:44 -0600 (CST)
Subject: are image objects moveable?
In-Reply-To: <20040225161538.C9FFE9300AA@mail.runrev.com>
References: <20040225161538.C9FFE9300AA@mail.runrev.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.4.58.0402251106350.24992@vertex.ucls.uchicago.edu>

> "kweto" <nrkweto03 at hotmail.com> asks
>
> Is there a (simple) way of enabling a user to use a mouse to pick up an
> image object and then move it around on a card? I.e., click and hold on an
> image with mouse left-button, move image by moving mouse, and then release
> mouse left-button.

A down-and-dirty way to do this is with the following handler in
the script for the image object:
on mouseStillDown
  set the loc of me to the mouseLoc
end mouseStillDown


> Also, if the reason for moving the image object is to place it into a
> container, then, what type of object would serve best as a container (image
> object? button object?), and how would I identify when the moved image
> object is on/over the container?

You could ask if the center of the image object is within the rect
of the container object (it doesn't matter what kind you use: button,
image, rectangle, or whatever).  In the mouseStillDown handler, add
the line:
  if the loc of me is within the rect of image "container"
  then .....

Again, this is a pretty simple way to do it; doesn't check to see if
the whole area of the image is within the container.

  - marty

--
Marty Billingsley (marty at ucls.uchicago.edu)
The University of Chicago Laboratory Schools

    "We are our choices...."
                   - Sartre

From albrecht at act-net.com  Wed Feb 25 12:19:22 2004
From: albrecht at act-net.com (A.C.T.)
Date: Wed, 25 Feb 2004 18:19:22 +0100
Subject: Serious applications
In-Reply-To: <a05100300bc625ad76cda@[66.52.165.38]>
References: <20040224202343.A1A9.3S@seric.es>
	<WorldClient-F200402250802.AA02520309@unitz.ca> <403CAF27.2080108@act-net.com>
	<a05100300bc625ad76cda@[66.52.165.38]>
Message-ID: <403CD91A.4090205@act-net.com>

Hi, Rob,

> Look a little harder, Marc.

I am the hardest looker :-)


> Productivity?

Yes. Meaning the time needed to solve a problem.

> How many lines of C does it take to replicate the functionality of the 
> "new stack" and "new card" commands?

A link to the correct library - that's about one line, I'd say.

> How many lines of C does it take to "get word 3 of item 6 of line 17 of 
> someText?

Not taking into account that I do never need to get "word 3 of item 6 of 
line 17" but usually use some regexp for such tasks - I'd say a call of 
the right function in the correct library takes about one line.

> Can you change a library routine, replace the library file, and rerun 
> all your C applications that use the library without relinking & 
> redistributing the standalone?  I can & do with Transcript.

Yes, by using shared libraries - or, depending on the actual task, using 
a plug in system.

> You won't appreciate the benefits of Transcript until you become more 
> familiar with it.  The C way of doing things is not the only way, and I 
> submit it is not the best way available.

I totally agree on that. As I have said before: I was not (and I still 
am not trying to be) saying anything AGAINST Transcript. Since 
"programming" really should be the SMALLEST task in a complete project 
the language only _is_ a small component. To me, personally, Transcript 
currently is a black box. That does not mean that it is "useless", 
again, I never said that.

But C or C++ isn't a language on its own, as you depict. You always 
access a large pool of libraries, you (surely?) don't reinvent wheels, 
tires or women every time you start coding something.

Marc Albrecht
A.C.T. / level-2
Glinder Str. 2
27432 Ebersdorf
Deutschland
Tel. 04765-830060
Fax. 04765-830064


From albrecht at act-net.com  Wed Feb 25 12:25:43 2004
From: albrecht at act-net.com (A.C.T.)
Date: Wed, 25 Feb 2004 18:25:43 +0100
Subject: Serious applications
In-Reply-To: <a05100300bc6270988942@[66.52.165.26]>
References: <a05100300bc6270988942@[66.52.165.26]>
Message-ID: <403CDA97.4000801@act-net.com>

Hi, Rob,

>> Productivity?
> 
> The following is not a rhetorical question: I asked this once before & 
> did not see an answer posted.
> 
> Does the CW, or any C debugger, debug at the source code level?
> 
> Can the C testing environment take you directly to the line of code 
> generating a runtime error? ...and let you change the offending code, 
> close the script, and continue testing without recompiling & relinking?

Depending on the environment you use: Yes, this is possible. We used SAS 
C for some years and it allows you to include line information in the 
object chunk. Since C is not an interpreted but a compiled language you 
always have to recompile, naturally.

And: C is not the only "choice". For prototyping or even for online 
applications, where speed isn't the major issue, I use PHP. Although it 
has its drawbacks I found it very productive - from the first hour I 
used it.

And: Again, I am sure that taking some time (depending on the 
intelligence available - I am dumb, unfortunately, I do not like to 
learn new things in general) Transcript must be the holy bible. I can 
not judge about it, currently (sic!) it is a closed book for me. That's 
all I am saying.

The question starting this thread was for "serious apps" - aside from 
this terminus not being "defined" I tried to express my own problems. I 
apologize that I sounded like attacking Transcript - I did not mean to, 
as you all noticed, I can not judge about Transcript.

Marc Albrecht
A.C.T. / level-2
Glinder Str. 2
27432 Ebersdorf
Deutschland
Tel. 04765-830060
Fax. 04765-830064


From 3mcgrath at adelphia.net  Wed Feb 25 12:35:10 2004
From: 3mcgrath at adelphia.net (Thomas McGrath III)
Date: Wed, 25 Feb 2004 12:35:10 -0500
Subject: custom buttons
In-Reply-To: <BC62171F.A45A%scott@tactilemedia.com>
References: <BC62171F.A45A%scott@tactilemedia.com>
Message-ID: <F5FB3FB3-67B8-11D8-95F7-000A95DA60FA@adelphia.net>

So, my greatest available choice here looks like linking images 
together in a group and making that 'act' like a button.

OK. I will look into that.

thanks

tom

On Feb 25, 2004, at 12:10 PM, Scott Rossi wrote:

> Recently, "J. Landman Gay"  wrote:
>
>> I need to combine two images in one button
>>> and then have it act like one button as a 'real' button.
>>>
>>> I have a special button look and feel and want to include that. Then 
>>> I
>>> want to put a special icon into that special button look and feel. 
>>> Then
>>> I want it to act like a default button or like a regular button.
>>
>> The usual way to do this is to create the entire button as an image 
>> in a
>> graphics program. Include the actual button shape itself, as well as 
>> its
>> "icon," as a single image. Make two of these, one for the "up" state 
>> and
>> another for the "down" state. Then create a transparent button and set
>> its icon to the "up" state image, and its hilitedicon to the "down"
>> state image.
>
> To add to the above:
>
> If you want a scalable image button, you would need to combine the 
> separate
> sections of the button image into a group and use the group as a 
> button.  If
> you want a button that only scales horizontally, you need a minimum of 
> 3
> items: left, center and right (scale the center element).  If you want 
> a
> button that scales in both directions, it gets more complex as you 
> need a
> 3x3 grid of elements and you scale only the center cell.  It's work, 
> but it
> can be done.
>
> Regards,
>
> Scott Rossi
> Creative Director
> Tactile Media, Multimedia & Design
> -----
> E: scott at tactilemedia.com
> W: http://www.tactilemedia.com
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>
>

Thomas J. McGrath III
SCS
1000 Killarney Dr.
Pittsburgh, PA 15234
412-885-8541


From dburgun at dsl.pipex.com  Wed Feb 25 12:35:11 2004
From: dburgun at dsl.pipex.com (David Burgun)
Date: Wed, 25 Feb 2004 17:35:11 +0000
Subject: Dan Shafer's eBook Problem
In-Reply-To: <403CDA97.4000801@act-net.com>
References: <a05100300bc6270988942@[66.52.165.26]>
 <403CDA97.4000801@act-net.com>
Message-ID: <a0521060ebc628c81c65c@[192.168.1.100]>

Hi,

I just bought and downloade d Dan Shafer's eBook and get a file called:

RevBookVol1.pdfr.pdf

However, when I try to open it, I get the following dialog:

"There was an error opening this document
the viewer cannot decrypt this document"

Any ideas?

Thanks a lot
Dave

From b.xavier at internet.lu  Wed Feb 25 12:54:05 2004
From: b.xavier at internet.lu (MisterX)
Date: Wed, 25 Feb 2004 18:54:05 +0100
Subject: Language Manager  - call for comments
In-Reply-To: <BC6290C2.2CFE%joel.guillod@net2000.ch>
Message-ID: <ENEALNOCJBOOOHHCCEKNCEMPFNAA.b.xavier@internet.lu>

Hi everyone,

As you know your software could be hitting more international public than
your time could permit in language education and in time to translate your
software.

To this little problem, I propose a GUI language manager API and editor set
to make that process automatic and basically painless for you, your
software, all it's interactive controls and your translator and in any
language! You can see the barebones of it in my last browser release
(mentioned before in the list).

I am looking for
- Someone who is willing to market it under his banner unless you want to
invest in my private R&D group.
- Whoever has ideas, requirements or comments to make this a great product!
Great and profitable ideas could get you a free license!

This GUI will provide:
Interactive text, documentation, controls text, labels and tooltips, menu
and dialogs support. Unicode and contextual translation planned for later
based on economic demand.

Works on any stack or platform.
Will handle IO text and all RR's objects and properties (except scripts
naturally - but who knows what's in store for a script editor im working
on...).

I should have a fully working demo in French, Spanish and English (and
possibly german) out this week if all goes well.

XB

Seriously working on fun development!
-
Vulcan Ioda X: An image in a thousand words doesn't translate!


From rcozens at pon.net  Wed Feb 25 11:39:00 2004
From: rcozens at pon.net (Rob Cozens)
Date: Wed, 25 Feb 2004 09:39:00 -0700
Subject: Serious applications
In-Reply-To: <811CA465-67B5-11D8-B273-000393C4760A@mindlube.com>
References: <a05100300bc6270988942@[66.52.165.26]>
 <811CA465-67B5-11D8-B273-000393C4760A@mindlube.com>
Message-ID: <a05100300bc628001282b@[66.52.165.11]>

>But more and more the compile/link part of C programming is being 
>"hidden" as an option.

Thank you for reducing my ignorance, Alex.
-- 

Rob Cozens
CCW, Serendipity Software Company
http://www.oenolog.net/who.htm

"And I, which was two fooles, do so grow three;
Who are a little wise, the best fooles bee."

from "The Triple Foole" by John Donne (1572-1631)

From rcozens at pon.net  Wed Feb 25 11:53:46 2004
From: rcozens at pon.net (Rob Cozens)
Date: Wed, 25 Feb 2004 09:53:46 -0700
Subject: Serious applications
In-Reply-To: <403CD91A.4090205@act-net.com>
References: <20040224202343.A1A9.3S@seric.es>
 <WorldClient-F200402250802.AA02520309@unitz.ca>
 <403CAF27.2080108@act-net.com>	<a05100300bc625ad76cda@[66.52.165.38]>
 <403CD91A.4090205@act-net.com>
Message-ID: <a05100303bc6281457436@[66.52.165.38]>

>I'd say a call of the right function in the correct library takes 
>about one line.

and how many lines are in the function?

>But C or C++ isn't a language on its own, as you depict. You always 
>access a large pool of libraries, you (surely?) don't reinvent 
>wheels, tires or women every time you start coding something.

Sorry, I depict it that way because that's the way it was when I 
programmed in C in the 1980s.  Admittedly, I am ignorant of how it 
has evolved since then; however, whatever front end utilities may 
have been added, I assume C syntax is still C syntax.

So, since I am beyond my knowledge base, my suggestion would be to 
put stock in what Opie & Tom McGrath have reported regarding their 
productivity gains using Run Rev.
-- 

Rob Cozens
CCW, Serendipity Software Company
http://www.oenolog.net/who.htm

"And I, which was two fooles, do so grow three;
Who are a little wise, the best fooles bee."

from "The Triple Foole" by John Donne (1572-1631)

From alex at mindlube.com  Wed Feb 25 13:01:10 2004
From: alex at mindlube.com (Alex Rice)
Date: Wed, 25 Feb 2004 11:01:10 -0700
Subject: Serious applications - check these out
In-Reply-To: <BC6290C2.2CFE%joel.guillod@net2000.ch>
References: <BC6290C2.2CFE%joel.guillod@net2000.ch>
Message-ID: <97A4A434-67BC-11D8-B273-000393C4760A@mindlube.com>


On Feb 25, 2004, at 9:49 AM, Jo?l Guillod wrote:

>> Also check out Apple's WebObjects.  New to me, but it looks really 
>> good.
>
> YES, actually it is!
>
> And of course reliable and easy small to large scale deployment: the 
> Apple
> store runs under WebObjects. I use it for medical images database and 
> image
> processing via web pages: see http://www.imed.ch/dermoscopy

Cool!

> Surely more easy to maintain than Revolution scriptsin large projects 
> but it
> takes time to learn all the many Java Classes for efficient 
> developement.

I know of a Web Objects project that failed because the learning curve 
was too steep: Java programming in a complex web app environment.

Web Objects used to be Objective-C. Apple dissed a lot of users when 
they rewrote Web Objects in Java. Many legacy Obj-C WO sites probably 
still exist.

But if you can get over the learning curve, and be confident Apple is 
not going to rewrite it again, then Web Objects is sure powerful for 
complex business apps.

--
Alex Rice | Mindlube Software | http://mindlube.com


From 3s at seric.es  Wed Feb 25 13:04:53 2004
From: 3s at seric.es (3s at seric.es)
Date: Wed, 25 Feb 2004 19:04:53 +0100
Subject: Serious applications
Message-ID: <20040225190444.2D81.3S@seric.es>

Hi everybody,

thank you very much for your comments.

Well looks that I not choosed the right term, serious applications, but
most of you understood it.

You are right a couple of hours is not enough to decide if Revolution is
the right tool for us.

What I liked in Revolution and spent some time to evalute? the way that
seems it allow create cross platform applications easily.

Learn a new language is not a problem at all. If the time spent learning
allow us to reach the objetive.

What mean serious applications for me? imagine an accounting-billing
solution to be used for 10-100 users in different languages and in
different enviroments. We are talking about hundred thousands or even
millions records in tables. We need a powerful database engine:
PostgreSql or Firebird prefered.

Will give a chance to Revolution :-)

Thanks,
Jose

From 3mcgrath at adelphia.net  Wed Feb 25 13:15:56 2004
From: 3mcgrath at adelphia.net (Thomas McGrath III)
Date: Wed, 25 Feb 2004 13:15:56 -0500
Subject: custom buttons
In-Reply-To: <F5FB3FB3-67B8-11D8-95F7-000A95DA60FA@adelphia.net>
References: <BC62171F.A45A%scott@tactilemedia.com>
	<F5FB3FB3-67B8-11D8-95F7-000A95DA60FA@adelphia.net>
Message-ID: <A7B5E789-67BE-11D8-95F7-000A95DA60FA@adelphia.net>

I have made my down state and up state 'base' button as the icons of 
those states in a transparent button and it looks great.
I want to link a small icon on top of that button and when the user 
clicks with the mouse to send mousedown and up to that button 'through' 
the icon.
Rev is not doing this. I tried pass mousedown, send "mousedown" to 
button "Button 2" and click at button "Button 2" and none of them seem 
to work. The last caused REV to freeze up and not receive mouse clicks 
at all.

Should I group them??? should I 'do' something to the icon image???

Thanks
Tom

On Feb 25, 2004, at 12:35 PM, Thomas McGrath III wrote:

> So, my greatest available choice here looks like linking images 
> together in a group and making that 'act' like a button.
>
> OK. I will look into that.
>
> thanks
>
> tom
>
> On Feb 25, 2004, at 12:10 PM, Scott Rossi wrote:
>
>> Recently, "J. Landman Gay"  wrote:
>>
>>> I need to combine two images in one button
>>>> and then have it act like one button as a 'real' button.
>>>>
>>>> I have a special button look and feel and want to include that. 
>>>> Then I
>>>> want to put a special icon into that special button look and feel. 
>>>> Then
>>>> I want it to act like a default button or like a regular button.
>>>
>>> The usual way to do this is to create the entire button as an image 
>>> in a
>>> graphics program. Include the actual button shape itself, as well as 
>>> its
>>> "icon," as a single image. Make two of these, one for the "up" state 
>>> and
>>> another for the "down" state. Then create a transparent button and 
>>> set
>>> its icon to the "up" state image, and its hilitedicon to the "down"
>>> state image.
>>
>> To add to the above:
>>
>> If you want a scalable image button, you would need to combine the 
>> separate
>> sections of the button image into a group and use the group as a 
>> button.  If
>> you want a button that only scales horizontally, you need a minimum 
>> of 3
>> items: left, center and right (scale the center element).  If you 
>> want a
>> button that scales in both directions, it gets more complex as you 
>> need a
>> 3x3 grid of elements and you scale only the center cell.  It's work, 
>> but it
>> can be done.
>>
>> Regards,
>>
>> Scott Rossi
>> Creative Director
>> Tactile Media, Multimedia & Design
>> -----
>> E: scott at tactilemedia.com
>> W: http://www.tactilemedia.com
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> use-revolution mailing list
>> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>>
>>
>
> Thomas J. McGrath III
> SCS
> 1000 Killarney Dr.
> Pittsburgh, PA 15234
> 412-885-8541
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>
>

Thomas J. McGrath III
SCS
1000 Killarney Dr.
Pittsburgh, PA 15234
412-885-8541


From 3mcgrath at adelphia.net  Wed Feb 25 13:19:39 2004
From: 3mcgrath at adelphia.net (Thomas McGrath III)
Date: Wed, 25 Feb 2004 13:19:39 -0500
Subject: Serious applications
In-Reply-To: <20040225190444.2D81.3S@seric.es>
References: <20040225190444.2D81.3S@seric.es>
Message-ID: <2CF84220-67BF-11D8-95F7-000A95DA60FA@adelphia.net>

Use Revolution as the front end!!!!!! Since REv loads in ram it will be 
fast and furious. Others can tell you how to integrate the DB.

Tom

On Feb 25, 2004, at 1:04 PM, 3s at seric.es wrote:

> Hi everybody,
>
> thank you very much for your comments.
>
> Well looks that I not choosed the right term, serious applications, but
> most of you understood it.
>
> You are right a couple of hours is not enough to decide if Revolution 
> is
> the right tool for us.
>
> What I liked in Revolution and spent some time to evalute? the way that
> seems it allow create cross platform applications easily.
>
> Learn a new language is not a problem at all. If the time spent 
> learning
> allow us to reach the objetive.
>
> What mean serious applications for me? imagine an accounting-billing
> solution to be used for 10-100 users in different languages and in
> different enviroments. We are talking about hundred thousands or even
> millions records in tables. We need a powerful database engine:
> PostgreSql or Firebird prefered.
>
> Will give a chance to Revolution :-)
>
> Thanks,
> Jose
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>
>

Thomas J. McGrath III
SCS
1000 Killarney Dr.
Pittsburgh, PA 15234
412-885-8541


From rcozens at pon.net  Wed Feb 25 12:24:36 2004
From: rcozens at pon.net (Rob Cozens)
Date: Wed, 25 Feb 2004 10:24:36 -0700
Subject: Serious applications
Message-ID: <a05100300bc628533609f@[66.52.165.38]>

Just curious, Marc:

What is the regular expression to replicate the functionality of "get 
word 3 of item 6 of line 17 of someText"?

or how about:

put 0 into word3Total
repeat for each line theValues in someText
	add word 3 of item 6 of theValues to word3Total
end repeat

?
-- 

Rob Cozens
CCW, Serendipity Software Company
http://www.oenolog.net/who.htm

"And I, which was two fooles, do so grow three;
Who are a little wise, the best fooles bee."

from "The Triple Foole" by John Donne (1572-1631)

From rcozens at pon.net  Wed Feb 25 13:12:25 2004
From: rcozens at pon.net (Rob Cozens)
Date: Wed, 25 Feb 2004 11:12:25 -0700
Subject: Serious applications
In-Reply-To: <20040225190444.2D81.3S@seric.es>
References: <20040225190444.2D81.3S@seric.es>
Message-ID: <a05100302bc62925776f3@[66.52.165.21]>

>What mean serious applications for me? imagine an accounting-billing
>solution to be used for 10-100 users in different languages and in
>different enviroments. We are talking about hundred thousands or even
>millions records in tables. We need a powerful database engine:
>PostgreSql or Firebird prefered.
>
>Will give a chance to Revolution :-)

Welcome aboard, Jose.

Just last week I posted, "I am ALWAYS available to offer whatever 
help I can, here or privately, to anyone developing multi-lingual Rev 
applications."

If you would like to distribute your application in one version 
[except for the app startup/engine] that users can translate into 
other languages, the tools and various techniques are available and 
demonstrated in Revolution/Transcript.

For examples of my existing multi-lingual Revolution stacks/apps, 
visit <http://www.oenolog.net/ftp/serendipity_downloader.htm>.

And you will find Rev/Transcript supports several flavors of SQL.
-- 

Rob Cozens
CCW, Serendipity Software Company
http://www.oenolog.net/who.htm

"And I, which was two fooles, do so grow three;
Who are a little wise, the best fooles bee."

from "The Triple Foole" by John Donne (1572-1631)

From mwieder at ahsoftware.net  Wed Feb 25 14:38:48 2004
From: mwieder at ahsoftware.net (Mark Wieder)
Date: Wed, 25 Feb 2004 11:38:48 -0800
Subject: Serious applications
In-Reply-To: <403CDA97.4000801@act-net.com>
References: <a05100300bc6270988942@[66.52.165.26]>
 <403CDA97.4000801@act-net.com>
Message-ID: <1832852401.20040225113848@ahsoftware.net>

A.C.T.-

Wednesday, February 25, 2004, 9:25:43 AM, you wrote:

ACT> The question starting this thread was for "serious apps" - aside from
ACT> this terminus not being "defined" I tried to express my own problems. I
ACT> apologize that I sounded like attacking Transcript - I did not mean to,
ACT> as you all noticed, I can not judge about Transcript.

Well put. I think the hard task in front of RunRev is convincing
current programmers that they should learn a new language and syntax.
I have to echo some of the other sentiments here and say that I do use
C/C++ in most of my work due to the hurdle of convincing prospective
clients to accept a product written in anything else, but I find my
write/develop/debug cycle *much* faster in rev than in C. My
productivity is roughly on par with my forth coding, which I find to
be four or five times faster than with C. (and I've been coding in
both of those for over 20 years).

And converting my existing C routines to Transcript is mostly just
changing the syntax. I'm constantly amazed at the fact that my
Transcript code runs just as fast as the compiled-to-machine-code C
routines, even when it comes to numerical processing.

-- 
-Mark Wieder
 mwieder at ahsoftware.net


From rcozens at pon.net  Wed Feb 25 13:42:42 2004
From: rcozens at pon.net (Rob Cozens)
Date: Wed, 25 Feb 2004 11:42:42 -0700
Subject: Serious applications
Message-ID: <a05100300bc629b7021ce@[66.52.165.21]>

>  imagine an accounting-billing
>solution to be used for 10-100 users in different languages and in
different enviroments

Lucky Jose didn't talk to Andy Ihnatko, eh folks?

[My attempt at an insiders' joke, Jose.  Just ignore it or search 
List archives for "Rev Review" & "Andy's comments & positioning"]

:{`)
-- 

Rob Cozens
CCW, Serendipity Software Company
http://www.oenolog.net/who.htm

"And I, which was two fooles, do so grow three;
Who are a little wise, the best fooles bee."

from "The Triple Foole" by John Donne (1572-1631)

From albrecht at act-net.com  Wed Feb 25 14:50:23 2004
From: albrecht at act-net.com (A.C.T.)
Date: Wed, 25 Feb 2004 18:50:23 -0100
Subject: Serious applications
In-Reply-To: <a05100300bc628533609f@[66.52.165.38]>
References: <a05100300bc628533609f@[66.52.165.38]>
Message-ID: <403CFC7F.8010201@act-net.com>

Hi, Rob,

> What is the regular expression to replicate the functionality of "get 
> word 3 of item 6 of line 17 of someText"?

I'd have to ask my regexp specialist. I am a project manager and regexp 
is not my personal hobby ;-)) Besides: regular expressions are handled 
differently in different languages.
But trying to answer the question: "Words" are usually easy to detect, 
every regexp transcription has got a terminus for words (including 
"real" words that are stopped by punctuation etc). "Item" would have to 
be defined, as to my understanding it could be anything from paragraph 
to sentence to page. Line again could be interpreted as "between two 
linefeeds" - or "between two carriage returns" - or "according to the 
current margin settings at a give font size with the registered 
kerning". In the area where I work these components always are of 
importance, a "line" is seldom a "line" ;-) In Regexp I would expect a 
terminus that simply COUNTS the delimiters: Linefeeds being the first 
delimiters (16 being skipped), item is unknown right now, but words 
would then be the next delimiter, so the regexp could look like 
"[\n*16][~2]~" (that's NOT a real regexp, that's just trying to "draw" 
what it would look like!)

> put 0 into word3Total
> repeat for each line theValues in someText
>     add word 3 of item 6 of theValues to word3Total
> end repeat

I feel like having to defend other languages - why?
If I knew what an "item" was in this place I could try to answer it. 
What about - taking PHP for a change - something like this?
$theValues=explode("\n",$someText);
// splitting lines into array "theValues"
$word3Total="";
// clearing word3Total (not necessary, though)
for($i=0;$i<count($theValues);$i++) {
// looping until last line is reached
	$word=explode(" ",$theValues[$i]);
// splitting each line, taken from array, into words, delimited by
// spaces
	$word3Total.=$word[2];
// concating word3Total with word number 3
	}

No - I am not saying this is "beautiful", I am not saying it is 
"perfect". But I _am_ saying that every C, C++, Java, PHP, Shellscript 
programmer will be able to understand it - and improve it. And that's 
what we are talking about: Not limiting code development to a small 
number of coders by using a non-standard programming language.

Marc Albrecht
A.C.T. / Level-2
Glinder Str. 2
27432 Ebersdorf
Deutschland
Tel. (+49) (0)4765-830060
Fax. (+49) (0)4765-830064

From jbv.silences at Club-Internet.fr  Wed Feb 25 14:59:18 2004
From: jbv.silences at Club-Internet.fr (jbv)
Date: Wed, 25 Feb 2004 20:59:18 +0100
Subject: Serious applications
References: <a05100300bc6270988942@[66.52.165.26]>
	<1832852401.20040225113848@ahsoftware.net>
Message-ID: <403CFE91.63A21B0F@Club-Internet.fr>

>
> Well put. I think the hard task in front of RunRev is convincing
> current programmers that they should learn a new language and syntax.

Is it really a problem with Transcript ?
I know it takes us back to the recent "Transcript vs C syntax" thread,
but I remember teaching the basic Rev concepts to a friend of mine (who
was already a programmer) in LESS THAN 1 HOUR.
After that he was able to start projects of its own.

Seriously, do you really think it'll take long for any english-speaking
person with a coder bkground to understand "set visible of btn 1 to true" ?

JB


From albrecht at act-net.com  Wed Feb 25 15:06:02 2004
From: albrecht at act-net.com (A.C.T.)
Date: Wed, 25 Feb 2004 19:06:02 -0100
Subject: Serious applications
In-Reply-To: <403CFE91.63A21B0F@Club-Internet.fr>
References: <a05100300bc6270988942@[66.52.165.26]>
	<1832852401.20040225113848@ahsoftware.net>
	<403CFE91.63A21B0F@Club-Internet.fr>
Message-ID: <403D002A.9030807@act-net.com>

Hi, JB,

surely I don't want this to continue, as there is not much sense in 
comparing languages that have their specific meaning and areas of use.

> Seriously, do you really think it'll take long for any english-speaking
> person with a coder bkground to understand "set visible of btn 1 to true" ?

But if "button->visible(TRUE)" is doing the same, why would you want to 
type in a complete sentence in a foreign language? 
"button->visible(TRUE)" is easy to read, short and may make a complex 
code faster to understand.

No, stop - really, I don't want that question to be ANSWERED, it's just 
rhethorical!

Actually, I asked if there is a plain text version of the documentation 
as I am not able to work my way through the online help docs (the 
browser is ... let's say: unproductive - sorry for the pun!). If someone 
could point me to where I can simply READ the COMPLETE manual instead of 
having to use the mouse all the time ... I'd really give it a try :-)

Marc Albrecht
A.C.T. / Level-2
Glinder Str. 2
27432 Ebersdorf
Deutschland
Tel. (+49) (0)4765-830060
Fax. (+49) (0)4765-830064

From 3mcgrath at adelphia.net  Wed Feb 25 15:06:12 2004
From: 3mcgrath at adelphia.net (Thomas McGrath III)
Date: Wed, 25 Feb 2004 15:06:12 -0500
Subject: disabled buttons
In-Reply-To: <a0602044bbc6291ae8ef2@[141.89.100.235]>
References: <24459EFC-6671-11D8-A8B8-000A95DA60FA@adelphia.net>
	<a0602044bbc6291ae8ef2@[141.89.100.235]>
Message-ID: <0F8504FF-67CE-11D8-95F7-000A95DA60FA@adelphia.net>

Robert,

my problem is they don't pass mouseUp's either. I need them to.

If disabled i want the mouseUp to go to the item under the disabled 
button.

Tom

On Feb 25, 2004, at 12:54 PM, Robert Brenstein wrote:

>> Hello,
>>
>> Does anyone know what messages a disabled button does receive?
>>
>> Macintosh PowerBook G-4 OSX 10.3.1, OS 9.2.2, 1.25 GHz, 512MB RAM, 
>> Rev 2.1.2
>>
>
> they should receive no message. they are disabled after all :) 
> However, they will still respond to send or call.
>
> Robert
>
>

Thomas J. McGrath III
SCS
1000 Killarney Dr.
Pittsburgh, PA 15234
412-885-8541


From alex at mindlube.com  Wed Feb 25 15:14:22 2004
From: alex at mindlube.com (Alex Rice)
Date: Wed, 25 Feb 2004 13:14:22 -0700
Subject: Serious applications
In-Reply-To: <403CFE91.63A21B0F@Club-Internet.fr>
References: <a05100300bc6270988942@[66.52.165.26]>
	<1832852401.20040225113848@ahsoftware.net>
	<403CFE91.63A21B0F@Club-Internet.fr>
Message-ID: <3341FEF4-67CF-11D8-B273-000393C4760A@mindlube.com>


On Feb 25, 2004, at 12:59 PM, jbv wrote:
> Seriously, do you really think it'll take long for any english-speaking
> person with a coder bkground to understand "set visible of btn 1 to 
> true" ?

Or "show button 1"
:-)

--
Alex Rice | Mindlube Software | http://mindlube.com



From jbv.silences at Club-Internet.fr  Wed Feb 25 15:14:56 2004
From: jbv.silences at Club-Internet.fr (jbv)
Date: Wed, 25 Feb 2004 21:14:56 +0100
Subject: Serious applications
References: <a05100300bc6270988942@[66.52.165.26]>
	<1832852401.20040225113848@ahsoftware.net>
	<403CFE91.63A21B0F@Club-Internet.fr> <403D002A.9030807@act-net.com>
Message-ID: <403D023B.89A6E256@Club-Internet.fr>

Hi again,

> surely I don't want this to continue, as there is not much sense in
> comparing languages that have their specific meaning and areas of use.
>
> > Seriously, do you really think it'll take long for any english-speaking
> > person with a coder bkground to understand "set visible of btn 1 to true" ?
>
> But if "button->visible(TRUE)" is doing the same, why would you want to
> type in a complete sentence in a foreign language?
> "button->visible(TRUE)" is easy to read, short and may make a complex
> code faster to understand.
>
> No, stop - really, I don't want that question to be ANSWERED, it's just
> rhethorical!
>

No really, my purpose WAS NOT to compare (again) the benefits of C and
Transcript syntax.
The point I wanted to make was : is it really a huge task to learn Transcript
for
anyone who speaks english and is already a coder (in C or any other language) ?
IMHO the answer is NO. The basic concepts are quite simple : hierarchy of
objects, sending messages and handlers structure. Again, I've seen ppl getting
those concepts in less than 1 hour...

And my remark was concerned ONLY with productivity, and NOT comparison
of various syntax.

Best,
JB


From hershbp at realtorsgroup.us  Wed Feb 25 15:16:22 2004
From: hershbp at realtorsgroup.us (hershrev)
Date: Wed, 25 Feb 2004 15:16:22 -0500
Subject: contains operator
In-Reply-To: <230E3DF7.67AE294C.00048C52@aol.com>
Message-ID: <7AAAC1E8-67CF-11D8-9ABD-0030654C1E62@realtorsgroup.us>

So thanks every body .
this what we got ..
1) if  not (x contains y) then --
2) if x contains y is false then --
thanks
On Wednesday, February 25, 2004, at 02:23 AM, Cubist at aol.com wrote:

> sez hershbp at realtorsgroup.us:
>> Hi, how do I use the contains operator in a negative way meaning 
>> ?"does
>> not contain" or " contains not" ?
>    If you can use a standard "contains" operator at all, inverting 
> said operator is (or at least should be) fairly trivial. Like so:
>
>   if not (This contains That) then
>
>    Hope this helps...
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>


From mwieder at ahsoftware.net  Wed Feb 25 15:16:19 2004
From: mwieder at ahsoftware.net (Mark Wieder)
Date: Wed, 25 Feb 2004 12:16:19 -0800
Subject: Serious applications
In-Reply-To: <403CFE91.63A21B0F@Club-Internet.fr>
References: <a05100300bc6270988942@[66.52.165.26]>
	<403CFE91.63A21B0F@Club-Internet.fr>
Message-ID: <1355103628.20040225121619@ahsoftware.net>

jbv-

Wednesday, February 25, 2004, 11:59:18 AM, you wrote:

j> Seriously, do you really think it'll take long for any english-speaking
j> person with a coder bkground to understand "set visible of btn 1 to true" ?

Nope - not my point at all. The hard part is convincing people they
should learn something new. This isn't a technical issue, just a
social one. I absolutely agree that it takes a minimum amount of
exposure to rev before that lightbulb goes on and it's exponential
after that.

-- 
-Mark Wieder
 mwieder at ahsoftware.net


From jbv.silences at Club-Internet.fr  Wed Feb 25 15:19:17 2004
From: jbv.silences at Club-Internet.fr (jbv)
Date: Wed, 25 Feb 2004 21:19:17 +0100
Subject: Serious applications
References: <a05100300bc6270988942@[66.52.165.26]>
	<1355103628.20040225121619@ahsoftware.net>
Message-ID: <403D033F.BE505E8C@Club-Internet.fr>



> Nope - not my point at all. The hard part is convincing people they
> should learn something new. This isn't a technical issue, just a
> social one.

So may be the trick is to convince them that they DO NOT need
to learn anything new... IOW that Rev is based on concepts they
already know...

JB


From ambassador at fourthworld.com  Wed Feb 25 15:19:13 2004
From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin)
Date: Wed, 25 Feb 2004 12:19:13 -0800
Subject: Serious applications
In-Reply-To: <1832852401.20040225113848@ahsoftware.net>
References: <a05100300bc6270988942@[66.52.165.26]>
	<403CDA97.4000801@act-net.com> <1832852401.20040225113848@ahsoftware.net>
Message-ID: <403D0341.7040107@fourthworld.com>

Mark Wieder wrote:

> I think the hard task in front of RunRev is convincing
> current programmers that they should learn a new language
 > and syntax.

 From Perl to Java to JavaScript to C to C++ to Objective C, this is 
always the challenge.  Let folks use what they prefer. Transcripters 
won't force C programmers to use chunk expressions if C programmers 
don't force Transcripters to use an evaluation operator for assignments. 
:)  Creating a programming language is not a trivial task; each language 
solves a problem and has its place.

Folks who enjoy a certain comfort with their current language will 
remain with what they know.  Sometimes that's a productive decision, 
sometimes not.  After all, if it works don't fix it, and if they don't 
work with Rev they'll never see it as a productivity loss.*

But a lot of programmers, developers, software  publishers, IT shops, 
and hobbyists are always on the lookout for greater productivity and 
stronger ROI.  For them Rev has a liberating answer.

RunRev doesn't need to convince the world of its efficacy to be 
successful.  If over the course of its lifetime just 5% of Java 
programmers add it to their arsenal the company will have been 
enormously successful.

SunWorld magazine once wrote of the engine:

    "... once users have come up to speed with the package,
     it becomes a must-have UNIX utility, allowing fast
     prototyping, easy interactive presentations, and simple
     custom apps."


* Yes, all languages can call libraries, so in effect one could argue 
that any routine in any language is a one-liner.  But that argument is a 
bit of a red herring as it overlooks that libraries have to come from 
somewhere, and the challenges inherent in creating truly portable code. 
  By the time you've figured out how to display the contents of a text 
file in scrolling field on Mac Classic, OS X, Window, and Linux in C++, 
a Rev developer has a completed application, About box,  Preferences, 
auto-download updates, and all.

Rev isn't for everyone, nor every project.  I wouldn't write operating 
systems or device drivers with it, that's what the Assembler-substitute 
C is for.

But for GUI apps it's hard to beat.  You can build somewhere between 
90-100% of most apps in Rev, and for anything you can't build there are 
externals, or if you need deeper hooks there's the Embedded Engine option.

You could think of Rev as a pecompiled object library, on which there 
are nearly infinite ways to build.  It's definitely an unusual model and 
perhaps not suited for everyone's tastes.  But personal preferences 
aside its ROI proposition as a foundation for most GUI apps stands firm.

-- 
  Richard Gaskin
  Fourth World Media Corporation
  ___________________________________________________________
  Ambassador at FourthWorld.com       http://www.FourthWorld.com

From albrecht at act-net.com  Wed Feb 25 15:21:40 2004
From: albrecht at act-net.com (A.C.T.)
Date: Wed, 25 Feb 2004 19:21:40 -0100
Subject: Serious applications
In-Reply-To: <403D033F.BE505E8C@Club-Internet.fr>
References: <a05100300bc6270988942@[66.52.165.26]>
	<1355103628.20040225121619@ahsoftware.net>
	<403D033F.BE505E8C@Club-Internet.fr>
Message-ID: <403D03D4.9080104@act-net.com>

Sorry,


> So may be the trick is to convince them that they DO NOT need
> to learn anything new... IOW that Rev is based on concepts they
> already know...

one trick could be to answer my question (posted twice): Where can I 
find a manual that I can read/print out "normally" without having to use 
the built-in-browser?
You could "convince" at least one dumb old fashioned developer by simply 
giving him a chance to learn: me.

Marc Albrecht
A.C.T. / Level-2
Glinder Str. 2
27432 Ebersdorf
Deutschland
Tel. (+49) (0)4765-830060
Fax. (+49) (0)4765-830064

From revolution at jaedworks.com  Wed Feb 25 15:24:58 2004
From: revolution at jaedworks.com (Jeanne A. E. DeVoto)
Date: Wed, 25 Feb 2004 12:24:58 -0800
Subject: Array Basics
In-Reply-To: <1EEFCEEF-67AA-11D8-A24B-003065F00EF2@mac.com>
References: <1EEFCEEF-67AA-11D8-A24B-003065F00EF2@mac.com>
Message-ID: <p06010214bc62b4158485@[10.0.1.8]>

At 9:48 AM -0600 2/25/2004, Bojsza wrote:
>1. What is the difference between an array and a matrix?

There's no basic difference; a matrix is a particular kind of array. 
(Specifically, a matrix is a two-dimensional array with one-based 
numeric keys.)

>[...]
>   put "2 3 4" into zArray -- create a 1x3 array
>matrixMultiply(xArray,zArray)
>put it into arrayOut
>end mouseUp
>
>The script editor errors with the following:
>
>Expression: missing ' ) ' before factor.

The problem is that matrixMultiply is a function, not a command, so 
it needs to be embedded in a statement that uses the function. 
Instead of
   matrixMultiply(xArray,zArray)
   put it into arrayOut
try
   put matrixMultiply(xArray,zArray) into arrayOut

>2. I know that I can go from a list to an array with the split 
>command. Can I go from an array to a list also using the split 
>command?

For this, use the combine command (which is the converse of split).

>3. Can I create an array with a variable ie a 3x1 array with angle 
>as a variable?

Not sure what you mean here - can you say more about what you want to do?
-- 
jeanne a. e. devoto ~ jaed at jaedworks.com
http://www.jaedworks.com

From 3mcgrath at adelphia.net  Wed Feb 25 15:25:05 2004
From: 3mcgrath at adelphia.net (Thomas McGrath III)
Date: Wed, 25 Feb 2004 15:25:05 -0500
Subject: Serious applications
In-Reply-To: <403D03D4.9080104@act-net.com>
References: <a05100300bc6270988942@[66.52.165.26]>
	<1355103628.20040225121619@ahsoftware.net>
	<403D033F.BE505E8C@Club-Internet.fr> <403D03D4.9080104@act-net.com>
Message-ID: <B275149E-67D0-11D8-95F7-000A95DA60FA@adelphia.net>

You can buy a printed manual from REV or you can buy a book from Don 
Shafer.

HTH


On Feb 25, 2004, at 3:21 PM, A.C.T. wrote:

> Sorry,
>
>
>> So may be the trick is to convince them that they DO NOT need
>> to learn anything new... IOW that Rev is based on concepts they
>> already know...
>
> one trick could be to answer my question (posted twice): Where can I 
> find a manual that I can read/print out "normally" without having to 
> use the built-in-browser?
> You could "convince" at least one dumb old fashioned developer by 
> simply giving him a chance to learn: me.
>
> Marc Albrecht
> A.C.T. / Level-2
> Glinder Str. 2
> 27432 Ebersdorf
> Deutschland
> Tel. (+49) (0)4765-830060
> Fax. (+49) (0)4765-830064
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>
>

Thomas J. McGrath III
SCS
1000 Killarney Dr.
Pittsburgh, PA 15234
412-885-8541


From ambassador at fourthworld.com  Wed Feb 25 15:26:22 2004
From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin)
Date: Wed, 25 Feb 2004 12:26:22 -0800
Subject: Serious applications
In-Reply-To: <403D002A.9030807@act-net.com>
References: <a05100300bc6270988942@[66.52.165.26]>
	<1832852401.20040225113848@ahsoftware.net>
	<403CFE91.63A21B0F@Club-Internet.fr> <403D002A.9030807@act-net.com>
Message-ID: <403D04EE.10909@fourthworld.com>

A.C.T. wrote:
 > If someone could point me to where I can simply READ the COMPLETE
 > manual instead of having to use the mouse all the time ...

Geoff Canyon once made an exporter for the docs -- hopefully he'll chime 
in with a URL.

But you raise an interesting point about keyboard access.  The Win HIG 
makes a strong case for designing applications that can be used either 
with a keyboard or mouse.  As much as I like Mac, Win is light years 
ahead on standardizing universal keyboard access for all program functions.

Hopefully the Rev docs can be brought up to the Win HIG standards and 
you'll have zippy keyboard access without needing to export.

-- 
  Richard Gaskin
  Fourth World Media Corporation
  ___________________________________________________________
  Ambassador at FourthWorld.com       http://www.FourthWorld.com

From jbv.silences at Club-Internet.fr  Wed Feb 25 15:36:22 2004
From: jbv.silences at Club-Internet.fr (jbv)
Date: Wed, 25 Feb 2004 21:36:22 +0100
Subject: Serious applications
References: <a05100300bc6270988942@[66.52.165.26]>
	<1832852401.20040225113848@ahsoftware.net>
	<403D0341.7040107@fourthworld.com>
Message-ID: <403D0740.A27F595F@Club-Internet.fr>



>
>  From Perl to Java to JavaScript to C to C++ to Objective C, this is
> always the challenge.  Let folks use what they prefer.

(snip)

> Folks who enjoy a certain comfort with their current language will
> remain with what they know.  Sometimes that's a productive decision,
> sometimes not.  After all, if it works don't fix it, and if they don't
> work with Rev they'll never see it as a productivity loss.*
>

Well, I remember a project from last year in which the client asked
us to issue PDF documents on the fly from a template in a web app.
2 guys helping me on this time critical project were used to PHP, but
after 2 days of coding & testing they only managed to complete a solution
that fulfilled only 50% of the needs.
Finally I stayed late at work one evening, and in 3 or 4 hrs I completed
a script in MC cgi that did the task.

After that, they suddenly began to feel slightly less comfortable with PHP...

JB


From albrecht at act-net.com  Wed Feb 25 15:39:37 2004
From: albrecht at act-net.com (A.C.T.)
Date: Wed, 25 Feb 2004 19:39:37 -0100
Subject: Serious applications
In-Reply-To: <B275149E-67D0-11D8-95F7-000A95DA60FA@adelphia.net>
References: <a05100300bc6270988942@[66.52.165.26]>
	<1355103628.20040225121619@ahsoftware.net>
	<403D033F.BE505E8C@Club-Internet.fr> <403D03D4.9080104@act-net.com>
	<B275149E-67D0-11D8-95F7-000A95DA60FA@adelphia.net>
Message-ID: <403D0809.8010901@act-net.com>

Moin, Thomas,

> You can buy a printed manual from REV or you can buy a book from Don 
> Shafer.

All I want to do is print out the manual that I already have here, 
included in the Revolution application. I cannot deal with the very very 
small windows displaying one or two sentences and having to click with 
the mouse 30 times a minute just to read the next paragraph, I tend to 
not use the mouse at all if possible. All I want is the text of this 
manual in a STANDARD format (plain text, rtf, TeX, HTML, PDF, whatever) 
- all I want to do is giving Transcript a chance: I want to learn it - 
the usual way by reading a usual document.

I have no problem with BUYING Don Shafers book as soon as I have decided 
to BUY the application it describes! But please forgive if I tend to do 
things in a seemingly more logical way :-)

Marc Albrecht
A.C.T. / Level-2
Glinder Str. 2
27432 Ebersdorf
Deutschland
Tel. (+49) (0)4765-830060
Fax. (+49) (0)4765-830064

From hershbp at realtorsgroup.us  Wed Feb 25 15:44:37 2004
From: hershbp at realtorsgroup.us (hershrev)
Date: Wed, 25 Feb 2004 15:44:37 -0500
Subject: Serious applications
In-Reply-To: <a05100302bc62925776f3@[66.52.165.21]>
Message-ID: <6D0880AB-67D3-11D8-9ABD-0030654C1E62@realtorsgroup.us>


On Wednesday, February 25, 2004, at 01:12 PM, Rob Cozens wrote:

>> What mean serious applications for me? imagine an accounting-billing
>> solution to be used for 10-100 users in different languages and in
>> different enviroments. We are talking about hundred thousands or even
>> millions records in tables. We need a powerful database engine:
>> PostgreSql or Firebird prefered.
>>
>> Will give a chance to Revolution :-)
>
> Welcome aboard, Jose.
>
> Just last week I posted, "I am ALWAYS available to offer whatever help 
> I can, here or privately, to anyone developing multi-lingual Rev 
> applications."
>
> If you would like to distribute your application in one version 
> [except for the app startup/engine] that users can translate into 
> other languages, the tools and various techniques are available and 
> demonstrated in Revolution/Transcript.
>
> For examples of my existing multi-lingual Revolution stacks/apps, 
> visit <http://www.oenolog.net/ftp/serendipity_downloader.htm>.
>
> And you will find Rev/Transcript supports several flavors of SQL.

Which download is the sql examples  ?
hershrev.
> -- 
>
> Rob Cozens
> CCW, Serendipity Software Company
> http://www.oenolog.net/who.htm
>
> "And I, which was two fooles, do so grow three;
> Who are a little wise, the best fooles bee."
>
> from "The Triple Foole" by John Donne (1572-1631)
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>


From kray at sonsothunder.com  Wed Feb 25 15:45:28 2004
From: kray at sonsothunder.com (Ken Ray)
Date: Wed, 25 Feb 2004 14:45:28 -0600
Subject: Serious applications
In-Reply-To: <403D03D4.9080104@act-net.com>
Message-ID: <025a01c3fbe0$51036950$6601a8c0@LightningFlash>

Marc,

I have an earlier version of the Rev docs (1.1.1) in text, DOC and PDF
formats here:

  http://www.sonsothunder.com/devres/revolution/downloads.htm

As soon as I can get an exported copy of the 2.1.2 docs I'll let you
know. But at least you could start there... 

:-)

Ken Ray
Sons of Thunder Software
Email: kray at sonsothunder.com
Web Site: http://www.sonsothunder.com/ 

> -----Original Message-----
> From: use-revolution-bounces at lists.runrev.com 
> [mailto:use-revolution-bounces at lists.runrev.com] On Behalf Of A.C.T.
> Sent: Wednesday, February 25, 2004 2:22 PM
> To: How to use Revolution
> Subject: Re: Serious applications
> 
> 
> Sorry,
> 
> 
> > So may be the trick is to convince them that they DO NOT 
> need to learn 
> > anything new... IOW that Rev is based on concepts they 
> already know...
> 
> one trick could be to answer my question (posted twice): Where can I 
> find a manual that I can read/print out "normally" without 
> having to use 
> the built-in-browser?
> You could "convince" at least one dumb old fashioned 
> developer by simply 
> giving him a chance to learn: me.
> 
> Marc Albrecht
> A.C.T. / Level-2
> Glinder Str. 2
> 27432 Ebersdorf
> Deutschland
> Tel. (+49) (0)4765-830060
> Fax. (+49) (0)4765-830064 
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com 
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-> revolution
> 



From dsc at swcp.com  Wed Feb 25 15:54:53 2004
From: dsc at swcp.com (Dar Scott)
Date: Wed, 25 Feb 2004 13:54:53 -0700
Subject: custom buttons
In-Reply-To: <A7B5E789-67BE-11D8-95F7-000A95DA60FA@adelphia.net>
Message-ID: <DC1DE144-67D4-11D8-8617-000A9567A3E6@swcp.com>


On Wednesday, February 25, 2004, at 11:15 AM, Thomas McGrath III wrote:

> Should I group them??? should I 'do' something to the icon image???

You can group and put mouse handlers in the group.  If some images 
should not be included in mouse event catching, then your may have to 
organize grouping accordingly.

Remember, you only need to build this way if you need something 
special.  An example is the building of button images from scalable 
pieces as described by Scott.

Otherwise you can have the button refer to images by id and use the 
referenced images for button states.  Adjust other properties 
accordingly.

Dar Scott


From albrecht at act-net.com  Wed Feb 25 15:55:05 2004
From: albrecht at act-net.com (A.C.T.)
Date: Wed, 25 Feb 2004 19:55:05 -0100
Subject: Serious applications
In-Reply-To: <025a01c3fbe0$51036950$6601a8c0@LightningFlash>
References: <025a01c3fbe0$51036950$6601a8c0@LightningFlash>
Message-ID: <403D0BA9.8050509@act-net.com>

Moin, Ken,

> I have an earlier version of the Rev docs (1.1.1) in text, DOC and PDF
> formats here:
> 
>   http://www.sonsothunder.com/devres/revolution/downloads.htm

Thanks a lot! So I have something to read tonight :-)

Marc Albrecht
A.C.T. / Level-2
Glinder Str. 2
27432 Ebersdorf
Deutschland
Tel. (+49) (0)4765-830060
Fax. (+49) (0)4765-830064

From HyperChris at aol.com  Wed Feb 25 15:55:59 2004
From: HyperChris at aol.com (HyperChris at aol.com)
Date: Wed, 25 Feb 2004 15:55:59 EST
Subject: Dan Shafer's eBook Problem
Message-ID: <11b.2e84522a.2d6e65df@aol.com>

Try upgrading to Acrobat Reader v6.0.x

> >>when I try to open it, I get the following dialog:
> >>"There was an error opening this document the viewer cannot decrypt this 
> document"

From alex at mindlube.com  Wed Feb 25 16:03:07 2004
From: alex at mindlube.com (Alex Rice)
Date: Wed, 25 Feb 2004 14:03:07 -0700
Subject: Serious applications
In-Reply-To: <403D0809.8010901@act-net.com>
References: <a05100300bc6270988942@[66.52.165.26]>
	<1355103628.20040225121619@ahsoftware.net>
	<403D033F.BE505E8C@Club-Internet.fr> <403D03D4.9080104@act-net.com>
	<B275149E-67D0-11D8-95F7-000A95DA60FA@adelphia.net>
	<403D0809.8010901@act-net.com>
Message-ID: <0301A062-67D6-11D8-A79E-000393C4760A@mindlube.com>


On Feb 25, 2004, at 1:39 PM, A.C.T. wrote:
> All I want to do is print out the manual that I already have here, 
> included in the Revolution application. I cannot deal with the very 
> very small windows displaying one or two sentences and having to click 
> with the mouse 30 times a minute just to read the next paragraph, I 
> tend to not use the mouse at all if possible. All I want is the text 
> of this manual in a STANDARD format (plain text, rtf, TeX, HTML, PDF, 
> whatever) - all I want to do is giving Transcript a chance: I want to 
> learn it - the usual way by reading a usual document.
> I have no problem with BUYING Don Shafers book as soon as I have 
> decided to BUY the application it describes! But please forgive if I 
> tend to do things in a seemingly more logical way :-)

Consider putting a feature request into bugzilla for different formats 
of RR docs. The docs are well written, and comprehensive. I believe RR 
said they come out to 900 pages or something, in PDf format.

The current RR docs are just a kind of hypertext. Think of it as a 
small web browser, but closely integrated into the IDE.

Once you get used to the docs interface you will see you can very 
rapidly switch from script editor to Transcript dictionary, to 
background material. Despite being forced to use the mouse. Like it or 
not you are going to need your mouse to use with Runrev.

Couple of other pointers:

- Right click on a keyword in the script editor to define it in the 
Transcript docs.

- There is a preference for the IDE having the tooltips that shows 
either the property name, or the description of what the property does.

Hope this helps,

--
Alex Rice | Mindlube Software | http://mindlube.com


From psahores at easynet.fr  Wed Feb 25 16:04:45 2004
From: psahores at easynet.fr (Pierre Sahores)
Date: Wed, 25 Feb 2004 22:04:45 +0100
Subject: Serious applications
In-Reply-To: <20040225190444.2D81.3S@seric.es>
References: <20040225190444.2D81.3S@seric.es>
Message-ID: <3D5B95C7-67D6-11D8-9573-000A95C61E96@easynet.fr>

Le 25 f?vr. 04, ? 19:04, 3s at seric.es a ?crit :

> We are talking about hundred thousands or even
> millions records in tables. We need a powerful database engine:
> PostgreSql or Firebird prefered.

200 connections peer second peer processor equals 200*3600*12 (8 64 
000) equals lots of power available to serve your datas. For more 
power, the best is to handle big redondant clusters running each one an 
applications server+an ACID compliant RDBMS, all binded together trough 
a replicator management system - the new PostgreSQL one seems 
interesting). From my own experience, the power is no more the main 
difficulty or cost. To be realy suitable to the customers needs, a 
networked app have to be well designed and easy to improve and 
maintain, year after year (the time of "definitive apps" has gone ;-)

Don't missunderstand : Revolution is full suitable to build rock solid 
TCP/IP applications servers, not to replace the ACID RDBMS we are aware 
with. Rev is not a database server engine (nor Java is) and, even if it 
could be ways to program it in this way, why would we have to reinvent 
the wheel when PostgreSQL, FireBird, SAPDB or, even Sybase ASE ,are 
there to handle this part of the job for us.
>
> Will give a chance to Revolution :-)

I hope you will find the power you need in speeding it !

> Thanks,
> Jose
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>

-- 
Bien cordialement, Pierre Sahores

100, rue de Paris
F - 77140 Nemours

psahores at easynet.fr

GSM:   +33 6 03 95 77 70
Pro:      +33 1 41 60 52 68
Dom:    +33 1 64 45 05 33
Fax:      +33 1 64 45 05 33

Inspection acad?mique de Seine-Saint-Denis
Applications et SGBD ACID SQL (WEB et PGI)
Penser et produire "delta de productivit?"

From alex at mindlube.com  Wed Feb 25 16:06:49 2004
From: alex at mindlube.com (Alex Rice)
Date: Wed, 25 Feb 2004 14:06:49 -0700
Subject: Serious applications
In-Reply-To: <403D0BA9.8050509@act-net.com>
References: <025a01c3fbe0$51036950$6601a8c0@LightningFlash>
	<403D0BA9.8050509@act-net.com>
Message-ID: <872A5F07-67D6-11D8-A79E-000393C4760A@mindlube.com>


On Feb 25, 2004, at 1:55 PM, A.C.T. wrote:

>>   http://www.sonsothunder.com/devres/revolution/downloads.htm
>
> Thanks a lot! So I have something to read tonight :-)

That format is useless IMHO. 3000+ pages, and it's the *Transcript 
Dictionary only*

missing: By Category, Welcome, Recommendations, Tutorials, Cookbook, 
Troubleshooting, What's New, etc. all the other content in the IDE 
hypertext docs.

--
Alex Rice | Mindlube Software | http://mindlube.com


From revolution at jaedworks.com  Wed Feb 25 16:08:06 2004
From: revolution at jaedworks.com (Jeanne A. E. DeVoto)
Date: Wed, 25 Feb 2004 13:08:06 -0800
Subject: Serious applications
In-Reply-To: <403D0809.8010901@act-net.com>
References: <a05100300bc6270988942@[66.52.165.26]>
 <1355103628.20040225121619@ahsoftware.net>
 <403D033F.BE505E8C@Club-Internet.fr> <403D03D4.9080104@act-net.com>
 <B275149E-67D0-11D8-95F7-000A95DA60FA@adelphia.net>
 <403D0809.8010901@act-net.com>
Message-ID: <p06010217bc62bcc28d09@[10.0.1.8]>

At 7:39 PM -0100 2/25/2004, A.C.T. wrote:
>All I want to do is print out the manual that I already have here, 
>included in the Revolution application. I cannot deal with the very 
>very small windows displaying one or two sentences and having to 
>click with the mouse 30 times a minute just to read the next 
>paragraph, I tend to not use the mouse at all if possible.

If it will help, you can use the arrow keys to scroll up and down, 
and the left and right arrow keys to move from page to page. (And if 
the default window size is too small, they can be resized, of 
course...)

You might also want to download Geoff Canyon's docs exporter stack at 
<http://www.inspiredlogic.com/rev/revrtfer.rev>. It exports (most of) 
the docs in RTF, text, or HTML format. (It doesn't export the 
Cookbook or the references, but does the rest.)
-- 
jeanne a. e. devoto ~ jaed at jaedworks.com
http://www.jaedworks.com

From dsc at swcp.com  Wed Feb 25 16:28:44 2004
From: dsc at swcp.com (Dar Scott)
Date: Wed, 25 Feb 2004 14:28:44 -0700
Subject: Array Basics
In-Reply-To: <1EEFCEEF-67AA-11D8-A24B-003065F00EF2@mac.com>
Message-ID: <96A1B14C-67D9-11D8-8617-000A9567A3E6@swcp.com>


On Wednesday, February 25, 2004, at 08:48 AM, Bojsza wrote:

> on mouseUp
>   put empty into xArray
>   put empty into zArray
>   put "1 2 3" into xArray
>   split xArray by space -- create an array from a list (3x1 array)
>   put "2 3 4" into zArray -- create a 1x3 array
> matrixMultiply(xArray,zArray)
> put it into arrayOut
> end mouseUp

on mouseUp
   put "1,1:1;1,2:2;1,3:3" into x
   split x using ";" and ":"
   put "1,1:2;2,1:3;3,1:4" into y
   split y using ";" and ":"
   put matrixMultiply(x,y) into z
   combine z using ";" and ":"
   put z
end mouseUp

==>
1,1:20

In hindsight, I think this might be more readable using space instead 
of ";".


> 2. I know that I can go from a list to an array with the split 
> command. Can I go from an array to a list also using the split > command?

Use combine as Jeanne explained and used above.

> 3. Can I create an array with a variable ie a 3x1 array with angle as 
> a variable?
>
> atan(angle)
> cos(angle)
> sin(angle)

Yes and no.

You can make an array builder function that instantiates such an array 
for the angle provided at build.  Like this (off the top of my head):

function angleArray alpha
   put atan(alpha) into a[1,1]
   put cos(alpha)  into a[1,2]
   put sin(alpha)  into a[1,3]
   return a
end alpha

However, you might want to look at value().  You can evaluate a string 
and strings can be array elements.  Thus, you can have an array of 
expressions.  You can be as creative in expression processing as you 
want.

Dar Scott



From squance at elkvalley.net  Wed Feb 25 16:31:26 2004
From: squance at elkvalley.net (David Squance)
Date: Wed, 25 Feb 2004 14:31:26 -0700
Subject: Printing problem
In-Reply-To: <20040125081102.58902.qmail@web60508.mail.yahoo.com>
References: <l0313030cbc38d03efeeb@[192.168.1.100]>
Message-ID: <l03130316bc62c3179bbe@[192.168.1.100]>

Having received no response to my previous post, I'll simplify my query.
One of the two problems is that Rev is freezing every time I attempt to
print a card.  I downloaded a fresh copy of RR2.1.2 and it made no
difference.  I can only assume that it is something I've done.  It started
with my current project--a very simple one card stack.  I'm trying to print
the content of a couple dozen fields in a sort of contrived array with a
simple "print this card" statement in a button.  The various buttons, etc
are masked and the showborder for each field is set to false first. It all
appears to work as expected, and prints, but shortly after the cursor quits
flashing and the colour wheel starts spinning.  Help!
Dave



From mcdomi at free.fr  Wed Feb 25 16:36:41 2004
From: mcdomi at free.fr (Dom)
Date: Wed, 25 Feb 2004 22:36:41 +0100
Subject: RunRev Pricing
In-Reply-To: <99DC5502-67A5-11D8-95F7-000A95DA60FA@adelphia.net>
Message-ID: <1g9qh70.16sjtgo1o1mfi8M%mcdomi@free.fr>

Thomas McGrath III <3mcgrath at adelphia.net> wrote:

> But Mac users can be the most stubborn users in the world.

Hmmm... they were told years ago something like 
"rumors of demise of HyperCard is pure b***s***"

Mac users may be as stubborn as a donkey, 
they have also the memory of this sympathetic animal ;->

-- 
Vous parlez fran?ais ? faites un tour sur le groupe francophone !
revolutionfr-subscribe at yahoogroupes.fr
Jetez un oeil sur RevoBlog <http://revoblog.free.fr> !

From chipp at chipp.com  Wed Feb 25 16:55:27 2004
From: chipp at chipp.com (Chipp Walters)
Date: Wed, 25 Feb 2004 15:55:27 -0600
Subject: Serious Apps & New Statistics plugin available for countingyour
 scripts...
In-Reply-To: <a05100301bc625f026756@[66.52.165.38]>
References: <20040224202343.A1A9.3S@seric.es>
	<a05100301bc625f026756@[66.52.165.38]>
Message-ID: <403D19CF.5040107@chipp.com>

Rob Cozens got me to thinking about Hemingway and just how many lines of 
code there are in it..So, I first (of course) had to create a new 
altPlugin called "altStats" which can count lines, words, chars. For 
those altPlugin users it's at:

http://www.altuit.com/webs/altuit2/altPluginDownload/Downloads.htm

 From the site:
This plugin allows you to count the number of lines, words and 
characters in scripts. You can focus on stacks and substacks or on just 
a single object.

Hemingway has been an evolving piece of work for a couple of years now. 
The RunRev (client side) code is currently separated into a Main module 
and plugins. The Main module is 11107 lines long, and with all the 
plugins added (14 plugins) it totals over 42,000 lines of Transcript. 
And this is only the client side. The server side is ASP, COM, C, and a 
sprinkle of stored proc'ds. Currently Hemingway uses only one DLL, 
altNTLM.dll for traversing firewalls in MS Enterprises (soon to be 
available free to others who want/need it).

I think working with updatable plugins is the way to go with large 
projects. It not only makes projects easier to manage and code, but also 
easier to update.

BTW, ButtonGadget has 4668 lines of code + 1842 lines of code in the 
startup splash application (only for ButtonGadget PRO)

-Chipp

From sanke at hrz.uni-kassel.de  Wed Feb 25 17:08:17 2004
From: sanke at hrz.uni-kassel.de (Wilhelm Sanke)
Date: Wed, 25 Feb 2004 23:08:17 +0100
Subject: custom buttons
Message-ID: <403D1CD1.90204@hrz.uni-kassel.de>

On Wed Feb 25  Thomas McGrath III <3mcgrath at adelphia.net> wrote:

> I have made my down state and up state 'base' button as the icons of
> those states in a transparent button and it looks great.
> I want to link a small icon on top of that button and when the user
> clicks with the mouse to send mousedown and up to that button 'through'
> the icon.
> Rev is not doing this. I tried pass mousedown, send "mousedown" to
> button "Button 2" and click at button "Button 2" and none of them seem
> to work. The last caused REV to freeze up and not receive mouse clicks
> at all.
>
> Should I group them??? should I 'do' something to the icon image???
>
> Thanks
> Tom



In "Magic Triangle" - to be found among the "user contributions" at the 
Runrev site - I have used a routine which sends a mouseup-message 
"through" a field via a "click at" to an underlying graphic.

Maybe this is something that could help with your problem?

Regards,

Wilhelm Sanke


From capellan2000 at yahoo.com  Wed Feb 25 17:08:53 2004
From: capellan2000 at yahoo.com (Alejandro Tejada)
Date: Wed, 25 Feb 2004 14:08:53 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Serious applications
In-Reply-To: <20040225141733.0B455930073@mail.runrev.com>
Message-ID: <20040225220853.69645.qmail@web40503.mail.yahoo.com>

on Wed, 25 Feb 2004 15:20:23 +0100
Mark Albrecht wrote: 
> So: Probably "serious applications" are not a
> problem to do with 
> Revolution if you have the time and money to get
> your code-slaves speak Transcript. 

Ah! Learning a new computer language.

How much time did it takes to learn a new
computer language like Transcript if:

a) You are experienced in other computer languages,
like c, java, javascript, etc.
b) You do not have any experience with programming!

I'll really like to have a DEFINITIVE answer about
this. A real scientific answer, i mean.

> A well designed project only needs about
> 30% of time spent 
> in writing code, the rest is concept, design etc -
> so the language is 
> only a component of the "code processing" part of
> the project, with only 
> is less than a third of the project, meaning:
> Revolution is just as good 
> as any other IDE - and only just as bad as any
> poorly designed project.

This is a good concept. Indeed, i do not remember
been read about a book on project management with 
HyperTalk (The language in the x-talk family with
more books published).

Could you recommend a good book in this area that
could be applied to the programming style of
Transcript?

This info is really important, so
thanks in advance.

al



=====
Visit my site:
http://www.geocities.com/capellan2000/
Search the mail list:
http://mindlube.com/cgi-bin/search-use-rev.cgi

__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Mail SpamGuard - Read only the mail you want.
http://antispam.yahoo.com/tools

From kray at sonsothunder.com  Wed Feb 25 17:30:30 2004
From: kray at sonsothunder.com (Ken Ray)
Date: Wed, 25 Feb 2004 16:30:30 -0600
Subject: Serious applications
In-Reply-To: <872A5F07-67D6-11D8-A79E-000393C4760A@mindlube.com>
Message-ID: <027101c3fbee$fd024b00$6601a8c0@LightningFlash>

> >>   http://www.sonsothunder.com/devres/revolution/downloads.htm
> >
> > Thanks a lot! So I have something to read tonight :-)
> 
> That format is useless IMHO. 3000+ pages, and it's the *Transcript 
> Dictionary only*

Sorry, Alex, but that's not true. It is the export from Geoff Canyon's
"RevRTFer" stack, that includes the Transcript Dictionary, How To,
Troubleshooting (Why...), Menu Reference, Glossary and Shortcuts. It's
true that it doesn't include the Cookbook and the Tutorials, but it's a
lot more than just the TD.

Ken Ray
Sons of Thunder Software
Email: kray at sonsothunder.com
Web Site: http://www.sonsothunder.com/ 



From pevensen at siboneylg.com  Wed Feb 25 17:32:09 2004
From: pevensen at siboneylg.com (Peter T. Evensen)
Date: Wed, 25 Feb 2004 16:32:09 -0600
Subject: Serious applications
In-Reply-To: <027101c3fbee$fd024b00$6601a8c0@LightningFlash>
References: <872A5F07-67D6-11D8-A79E-000393C4760A@mindlube.com>
 <027101c3fbee$fd024b00$6601a8c0@LightningFlash>
Message-ID: <6.0.1.1.2.20040225163129.01e3fc88@SLG_PDC>

When I used it, it was looking for a documentation category that no longer 
exists in 2.1, so you may have to tweek the script.

At 04:30 PM 2/25/2004, you wrote:
> > >>   http://www.sonsothunder.com/devres/revolution/downloads.htm
> > >
> > > Thanks a lot! So I have something to read tonight :-)
> >
> > That format is useless IMHO. 3000+ pages, and it's the *Transcript
> > Dictionary only*
>
>Sorry, Alex, but that's not true. It is the export from Geoff Canyon's
>"RevRTFer" stack, that includes the Transcript Dictionary, How To,
>Troubleshooting (Why...), Menu Reference, Glossary and Shortcuts. It's
>true that it doesn't include the Cookbook and the Tutorials, but it's a
>lot more than just the TD.
>
>Ken Ray
>Sons of Thunder Software
>Email: kray at sonsothunder.com
>Web Site: http://www.sonsothunder.com/
>
>
>_______________________________________________
>use-revolution mailing list
>use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
>http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution

Peter T. Evensen
http://www.PetersRoadToHealth.com
24-hour recorded info hotline: 1-800-624-7671 


From livfoss at blueyonder.co.uk  Wed Feb 25 18:21:05 2004
From: livfoss at blueyonder.co.uk (Graham Samuel)
Date: Wed, 25 Feb 2004 23:21:05 +0000
Subject: Serious applications
Message-ID: <p05100301bc62dabf2d24@[82.35.54.24]>

On  Wed, 25 Feb 2004 12:19:13 -0800, Richard Gaskin 
<ambassador at fourthworld.com> wrote:
>
>But a lot of programmers, developers, software  publishers, IT shops,
>and hobbyists are always on the lookout for greater productivity and
>stronger ROI.  For them Rev has a liberating answer.
[snip]

I agree completely with this remark (well, Richard always talks sense 
IMHO!). But for me as an ex-manager in IT (I know there are quite a 
few of us on this list), I don't think that the **language** is the 
key issue in thinking about constructing a 'serious application' 
according to the definition offered by Marc Albrecht - I think it 
comes quite a way after issues about the suitability of the whole IDE 
for working in teams, support for rigorous testing (including 
automated regression testing),modularity, maintainability, 
deployment... issues about the organisation and processes involved in 
industrial-scale software production.

Personally I no longer have to worry about any of this: for me RR 
certainly is a 'liberating answer'.It's a fantastically productive 
tool and for cross-platform development seems to me to be almost the 
only game in town. But I guess we Revvers should be able to answer 
the question "can RunRev cut the mustard in an industrial-scale 
context? Would RR be suitable for a development involving 10, 20 or 
more staff?". If the answer is 'no', then IMO that's a perfectly 
honorable answer, and it still leaves RunRev with worlds to conquer; 
but right now I don't think anyone has in fact given a clear answer.

Just 2 more Eurocents

Graham
-- 
-------------------------------------------------------------------
          Graham Samuel / The Living Fossil Co. / UK & France

From briany at qldlearning.com  Wed Feb 25 18:52:11 2004
From: briany at qldlearning.com (Brian Yennie)
Date: Wed, 25 Feb 2004 18:52:11 -0500
Subject: Serious applications
In-Reply-To: <403CD91A.4090205@act-net.com>
Message-ID: <A0FEBE4E-67ED-11D8-9982-000393AA08D2@qldlearning.com>

> A link to the correct library - that's about one line, I'd say.

Except when there isn't a free library that launches an entire 
scriptable RAD environment in one line.

> Not taking into account that I do never need to get "word 3 of item 6 
> of line 17" but usually use some regexp for such tasks - I'd say a 
> call of the right function in the correct library takes about one > line.

RegExp would be an awfully slow way to do chunk expressions. That and 
it wouldn't work very well... pattern matching and text chunking aren't 
the same thing.

> Yes, by using shared libraries - or, depending on the actual task, 
> using a plug in system.

That's great... if you distribute the shared library yourself. And if 
so, there's a good chance you wrote it. In which case all of the "one 
line to the correct library" stuff becomes moot...

> But C or C++ isn't a language on its own, as you depict. You always 
> access a large pool of libraries, you (surely?) don't reinvent wheels, 
> tires or women every time you start coding something.

I do agree with you in principle; however, I think you are vastly 
overstating the concise nature of programming in C or C++ by implying 
that you can just replace RAD functionality with one line linking to 
the right shared library. There are a lot of C/C++ libraries out there, 
but there aren't _that_ many, and there are many issues around using 
them. Especially cross-platform.

FWIW,
Brian


From briany at qldlearning.com  Wed Feb 25 18:54:14 2004
From: briany at qldlearning.com (Brian Yennie)
Date: Wed, 25 Feb 2004 18:54:14 -0500
Subject: Serious applications
In-Reply-To: <403CDA97.4000801@act-net.com>
Message-ID: <EA4566FC-67ED-11D8-9982-000393AA08D2@qldlearning.com>

> The question starting this thread was for "serious apps" - aside from 
> this terminus not being "defined" I tried to express my own problems. 
> I apologize that I sounded like attacking Transcript - I did not mean 
> to, as you all noticed, I can not judge about Transcript.

Agreed. I don't see it as an attack at all- I think there's a lot of 
value in assimilating the impressions of new Rev users coming from 
other environments. I'm sure if you didn't see any promise in Rev, you 
wouldn't be here.

- Brian


From 3mcgrath at adelphia.net  Wed Feb 25 18:55:49 2004
From: 3mcgrath at adelphia.net (Thomas McGrath III)
Date: Wed, 25 Feb 2004 18:55:49 -0500
Subject: Serious applications
In-Reply-To: <403D0740.A27F595F@Club-Internet.fr>
References: <a05100300bc6270988942@[66.52.165.26]>
	<1832852401.20040225113848@ahsoftware.net> <403D0341.7040107@fourthworld.com>
	<403D0740.A27F595F@Club-Internet.fr>
Message-ID: <23208B36-67EE-11D8-95F7-000A95DA60FA@adelphia.net>

That is the best approach I've heard so far. Don't down mouth them but 
rather show them up.
The Director factory I was dealing with "knew" they could not beat my 
development time schedule for my big cd project so they went out and 
downloaded the Rev eval. That alone made them pay attention.

Real world examples always say more than words alone.


tom

On Feb 25, 2004, at 3:36 PM, jbv wrote:

> After that, they suddenly began to feel slightly less comfortable with 
> PHP...
>
>

Thomas J. McGrath III
SCS
1000 Killarney Dr.
Pittsburgh, PA 15234
412-885-8541


From 3mcgrath at adelphia.net  Wed Feb 25 19:01:35 2004
From: 3mcgrath at adelphia.net (Thomas McGrath III)
Date: Wed, 25 Feb 2004 19:01:35 -0500
Subject: Serious applications
In-Reply-To: <403D0809.8010901@act-net.com>
References: <a05100300bc6270988942@[66.52.165.26]>
	<1355103628.20040225121619@ahsoftware.net>
	<403D033F.BE505E8C@Club-Internet.fr> <403D03D4.9080104@act-net.com>
	<B275149E-67D0-11D8-95F7-000A95DA60FA@adelphia.net>
	<403D0809.8010901@act-net.com>
Message-ID: <F0FFCDBA-67EE-11D8-95F7-000A95DA60FA@adelphia.net>

Yeah, I agree about the pain it is reading them that way. But that is 
why I 'paid' for a written copy. Which might be coming any day now. ;-) 
I hope.

But also, as the old saying goes "What do ya want for nothin!"

That said, I too would like a text version.
Then I can have my computer read them to me while I am coding. I used 
to do this with SuperCard.

Never underestimate the power of subliminal reading.

I hope there is an export app available.

Tom

On Feb 25, 2004, at 3:39 PM, A.C.T. wrote:

> Moin, Thomas,
>
>> You can buy a printed manual from REV or you can buy a book from Don 
>> Shafer.
>
> All I want to do is print out the manual that I already have here, 
> included in the Revolution application. I cannot deal with the very 
> very small windows displaying one or two sentences and having to click 
> with the mouse 30 times a minute just to read the next paragraph, I 
> tend to not use the mouse at all if possible. All I want is the text 
> of this manual in a STANDARD format (plain text, rtf, TeX, HTML, PDF, 
> whatever) - all I want to do is giving Transcript a chance: I want to 
> learn it - the usual way by reading a usual document.
>
> I have no problem with BUYING Don Shafers book as soon as I have 
> decided to BUY the application it describes! But please forgive if I 
> tend to do things in a seemingly more logical way :-)
>
> Marc Albrecht
> A.C.T. / Level-2
> Glinder Str. 2
> 27432 Ebersdorf
> Deutschland
> Tel. (+49) (0)4765-830060
> Fax. (+49) (0)4765-830064
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>
>

Thomas J. McGrath III
SCS
1000 Killarney Dr.
Pittsburgh, PA 15234
412-885-8541


From 3mcgrath at adelphia.net  Wed Feb 25 19:15:52 2004
From: 3mcgrath at adelphia.net (Thomas McGrath III)
Date: Wed, 25 Feb 2004 19:15:52 -0500
Subject: custom buttons
In-Reply-To: <DC1DE144-67D4-11D8-8617-000A9567A3E6@swcp.com>
References: <DC1DE144-67D4-11D8-8617-000A9567A3E6@swcp.com>
Message-ID: <F03F394C-67F0-11D8-95F7-000A95DA60FA@adelphia.net>

Dar,

yeah, I am actually doing both. Two button state images by icon ID AND 
I need to put an icon on top of that final button.

So far I created a normal button(with my button look and feel as icon 
ids) and then laid an icon over top Then I grouped them and put in 
mouse handlers.
But mouseUp was not going through the top icon image to the button 
underneath. Now I got that working but when the button is pushed the 
icon over it stays in the same spot where as the bottom button goes 
down to the right on mouseDown and back up to the left on mouseUP or 
mouseLeave.

SO, I put a code that moves the top icon down to the left by 5,5 and in 
mouseUp by -5,-5. That works......

Now on mouseLeave I need to do something -- so i send a mouseUp on 
mouseLeave to the icon and it seems to work.

Now The problem is I have to have two scripts since the smaller top 
icon does not cover the bigger bottom button and the user may hit 
either. I would rather these codes were in the group and not the items 
but auto naming seems to work easier this way.

Makes you appreciate the internal methods rev uses to do these things a 
lot.

What message is it that a new button without and handlers receives to 
make it do the pushing in and out thing????
Message watcher reveals only mouseUp and mouseDown.

-----------------------------------
Here is my code as it stands now in the top icon.

on mouseUp
   move me relative -5,-5
   if the mouseLoc is within the rect of me then
   --execute the mouseUp code here
   beep -- then delete this
   end if
   pass mouseUp
end mouseUp
on mouseDown
   move me relative 5,5
   pass mouseDown
end mouseDown
on mouseRelease
   send "mouseUp" to me
end mouseRelease

Tom

On Feb 25, 2004, at 3:54 PM, Dar Scott wrote:

>
> On Wednesday, February 25, 2004, at 11:15 AM, Thomas McGrath III wrote:
>
>> Should I group them??? should I 'do' something to the icon image???
>
> You can group and put mouse handlers in the group.  If some images 
> should not be included in mouse event catching, then your may have to 
> organize grouping accordingly.
>
> Remember, you only need to build this way if you need something 
> special.  An example is the building of button images from scalable 
> pieces as described by Scott.
>
> Otherwise you can have the button refer to images by id and use the 
> referenced images for button states.  Adjust other properties 
> accordingly.
>
> Dar Scott
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>
>

Thomas J. McGrath III
SCS
1000 Killarney Dr.
Pittsburgh, PA 15234
412-885-8541


From 3mcgrath at adelphia.net  Wed Feb 25 19:21:19 2004
From: 3mcgrath at adelphia.net (Thomas McGrath III)
Date: Wed, 25 Feb 2004 19:21:19 -0500
Subject: Printing problem
In-Reply-To: <l03130316bc62c3179bbe@[192.168.1.100]>
References: <l0313030cbc38d03efeeb@[192.168.1.100]>
	<l03130316bc62c3179bbe@[192.168.1.100]>
Message-ID: <B2FC27CA-67F1-11D8-95F7-000A95DA60FA@adelphia.net>

You probably have a timing issue that you are not allowing enough time 
in your loop for rev to put the item to be printed to collect and then 
send to your printer.

Check out your loop and with messages etc.

HTH
Tom

On Feb 25, 2004, at 4:31 PM, David Squance wrote:

> Having received no response to my previous post, I'll simplify my 
> query.
> One of the two problems is that Rev is freezing every time I attempt to
> print a card.  I downloaded a fresh copy of RR2.1.2 and it made no
> difference.  I can only assume that it is something I've done.  It 
> started
> with my current project--a very simple one card stack.  I'm trying to 
> print
> the content of a couple dozen fields in a sort of contrived array with 
> a
> simple "print this card" statement in a button.  The various buttons, 
> etc
> are masked and the showborder for each field is set to false first. It 
> all
> appears to work as expected, and prints, but shortly after the cursor 
> quits
> flashing and the colour wheel starts spinning.  Help!
> Dave
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>
>

Thomas J. McGrath III
SCS
1000 Killarney Dr.
Pittsburgh, PA 15234
412-885-8541


From 3mcgrath at adelphia.net  Wed Feb 25 19:22:00 2004
From: 3mcgrath at adelphia.net (Thomas McGrath III)
Date: Wed, 25 Feb 2004 19:22:00 -0500
Subject: RunRev Pricing
In-Reply-To: <1g9qh70.16sjtgo1o1mfi8M%mcdomi@free.fr>
References: <1g9qh70.16sjtgo1o1mfi8M%mcdomi@free.fr>
Message-ID: <CBB4C0E9-67F1-11D8-95F7-000A95DA60FA@adelphia.net>

Heee Hawww,

I am a Donkey.................


Tom


On Feb 25, 2004, at 4:36 PM, Dom wrote:

> Thomas McGrath III <3mcgrath at adelphia.net> wrote:
>
>> But Mac users can be the most stubborn users in the world.
>
> Hmmm... they were told years ago something like
> "rumors of demise of HyperCard is pure b***s***"
>
> Mac users may be as stubborn as a donkey,
> they have also the memory of this sympathetic animal ;->
>
> -- 
> Vous parlez fran?ais ? faites un tour sur le groupe francophone !
> revolutionfr-subscribe at yahoogroupes.fr
> Jetez un oeil sur RevoBlog <http://revoblog.free.fr> !
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>
>

Thomas J. McGrath III
SCS
1000 Killarney Dr.
Pittsburgh, PA 15234
412-885-8541


From 3mcgrath at adelphia.net  Wed Feb 25 19:23:46 2004
From: 3mcgrath at adelphia.net (Thomas McGrath III)
Date: Wed, 25 Feb 2004 19:23:46 -0500
Subject: custom buttons
In-Reply-To: <403D1CD1.90204@hrz.uni-kassel.de>
References: <403D1CD1.90204@hrz.uni-kassel.de>
Message-ID: <0ADFD408-67F2-11D8-95F7-000A95DA60FA@adelphia.net>

I'm going there now.

Tell ya later,

Thanks

Tom

On Feb 25, 2004, at 5:08 PM, Wilhelm Sanke wrote:

> On Wed Feb 25  Thomas McGrath III <3mcgrath at adelphia.net> wrote:
>
>> I have made my down state and up state 'base' button as the icons of
>> those states in a transparent button and it looks great.
>> I want to link a small icon on top of that button and when the user
>> clicks with the mouse to send mousedown and up to that button 
>> 'through'
>> the icon.
>> Rev is not doing this. I tried pass mousedown, send "mousedown" to
>> button "Button 2" and click at button "Button 2" and none of them seem
>> to work. The last caused REV to freeze up and not receive mouse clicks
>> at all.
>>
>> Should I group them??? should I 'do' something to the icon image???
>>
>> Thanks
>> Tom
>
>
>
> In "Magic Triangle" - to be found among the "user contributions" at 
> the Runrev site - I have used a routine which sends a mouseup-message 
> "through" a field via a "click at" to an underlying graphic.
>
> Maybe this is something that could help with your problem?
>
> Regards,
>
> Wilhelm Sanke
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>
>

Thomas J. McGrath III
SCS
1000 Killarney Dr.
Pittsburgh, PA 15234
412-885-8541


From alex at mindlube.com  Wed Feb 25 19:29:46 2004
From: alex at mindlube.com (Alex Rice)
Date: Wed, 25 Feb 2004 17:29:46 -0700
Subject: Serious applications
In-Reply-To: <027101c3fbee$fd024b00$6601a8c0@LightningFlash>
References: <027101c3fbee$fd024b00$6601a8c0@LightningFlash>
Message-ID: <E0F234CB-67F2-11D8-9153-000393C4760A@mindlube.com>


On Feb 25, 2004, at 3:30 PM, Ken Ray wrote:

>> That format is useless IMHO. 3000+ pages, and it's the *Transcript
>> Dictionary only*
>
> Sorry, Alex, but that's not true. It is the export from Geoff Canyon's
> "RevRTFer" stack, that includes the Transcript Dictionary, How To,
> Troubleshooting (Why...), Menu Reference, Glossary and Shortcuts. It's
> true that it doesn't include the Cookbook and the Tutorials, but it's a
> lot more than just the TD.

Ah you are right, my bad. Nonetheless at 3000+ pages, with no Table of 
Contents, it's of limited utility, IMHO. My opinion is that with this 
much docs, hypertext is the best way to read it.

--
Alex Rice | Mindlube Software | http://mindlube.com


From 3mcgrath at adelphia.net  Wed Feb 25 19:42:11 2004
From: 3mcgrath at adelphia.net (Thomas McGrath III)
Date: Wed, 25 Feb 2004 19:42:11 -0500
Subject: custom buttons
In-Reply-To: <403D1CD1.90204@hrz.uni-kassel.de>
References: <403D1CD1.90204@hrz.uni-kassel.de>
Message-ID: <9CEFBD08-67F4-11D8-95F7-000A95DA60FA@adelphia.net>

I would like to share this small stack with you guys.

It shows the two buttons grouped with the code. I think it is important 
being able to do this.

BUT, my code may be rough and I would love some real good input on 
this. Maybe better suggestions?

put this in the message box and hit enter.

go URL "http://users.adelphia.net/~3mcgrath/Buttons.rev"

Tom
On Feb 25, 2004, at 5:08 PM, Wilhelm Sanke wrote:

> On Wed Feb 25  Thomas McGrath III <3mcgrath at adelphia.net> wrote:
>
>> I have made my down state and up state 'base' button as the icons of
>> those states in a transparent button and it looks great.
>> I want to link a small icon on top of that button and when the user
>> clicks with the mouse to send mousedown and up to that button 
>> 'through'
>> the icon.
>> Rev is not doing this. I tried pass mousedown, send "mousedown" to
>> button "Button 2" and click at button "Button 2" and none of them seem
>> to work. The last caused REV to freeze up and not receive mouse clicks
>> at all.
>>
>> Should I group them??? should I 'do' something to the icon image???
>>
>> Thanks
>> Tom
>
>
>
> In "Magic Triangle" - to be found among the "user contributions" at 
> the Runrev site - I have used a routine which sends a mouseup-message 
> "through" a field via a "click at" to an underlying graphic.
>
> Maybe this is something that could help with your problem?
>
> Regards,
>
> Wilhelm Sanke
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>
>

Thomas J. McGrath III
SCS
1000 Killarney Dr.
Pittsburgh, PA 15234
412-885-8541


From ambassador at fourthworld.com  Wed Feb 25 19:49:54 2004
From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin)
Date: Wed, 25 Feb 2004 16:49:54 -0800
Subject: Serious applications
In-Reply-To: <p05100301bc62dabf2d24@[82.35.54.24]>
References: <p05100301bc62dabf2d24@[82.35.54.24]>
Message-ID: <403D42B2.6010905@fourthworld.com>

Graham Samuel wrote:

> I guess we Revvers should be able to answer the question
 > "can RunRev cut the mustard in an industrial-scale context?
> Would RR be suitable for a development involving 10, 20 or
 > more staff?".

Case in point: this afternoon I'm building a stack-based content-editing 
system for a 20-person team to work on one set of stack files from 
locations on three different continents.  This is for a very specialized 
audience for a very specific type of content, so it also shows off how 
easy it is to make custom GUIs in Rev.  Even the tools these contributor 
use to manage the system update themselves on the fly as I release new 
versions, keeping them up to date without breaking their workflow.

There's been a lot of discussion about how hard it is to manage team 
efforts using CVS, but most of that seems caused at least in part by the 
difficulty in mapping the C or Java workflow (hundreds of tiny text 
files) onto the Transcript workflow (usually a small number of stack 
files).  There may be value in allowing every team member to modify 
every property of every object in real-time, but if you could work at a 
broader level of granularity, at the stack file level, you can craft a 
native solution and get 80+% of the practical benefits with less than 
10% of the overhead of attempting to coerce an alien model from other 
systems.

I've used WebDAV when I was tech-editing a book on GoLive, but I've 
never used it in practice.  So there may be some sort of 
can't-live-without-it value that just eludes my ignorance.  In my 
limited work I found it cumbersome, but I know a lot of people love it 
and probably for good reason.

My point is not whether WebDAV or CVS are worthy, but whether they are 
worth the unsual effort needed to coerce an unusual development system 
like Rev into working with them.

The question becomes compounded by the tremendous ease of crafting any 
number of stack-base check-in/check-out systems.  Scott Rossi built a 
fun one in probably 0.001% of the time spent developing WebDAV, and it 
provides the basics of stack-based check-in/check-out.  He showed it 
here at a RevDevCon last fall and it was way cool (and almost as 
attractive as his custom editing palettes).


There's another advantage to supporting of group workflows at the stack 
level as opposed to the script or object level that goes beyond the 
obvious technical merit from the ease of doing so: it helps enforce 
healthy factoring along dividing lines based on groupings of application 
functionality.

One of the results of following good practice in any language is to 
minimize potential complexity by keeping code in discrete modules and 
separating it as much as possible from data and interface objects.  Each 
element then acts as a sort of black box, like libURL, and can be 
maintained along parallel but separate tracks from other project components.

A stack-based approach allows one person to work on the Preferences 
window while another works on document-handling and a third works on a 
toolbar.  The dividing lines of stacks usually involve discrete 
functionality, and working on them separately helps keep their 
interconnections to a minimum, greatly reducing overall complexity.


A simple stack-based check-in/check-out may not serve the needs of 
100-person teams, but how many projects really require 100-person teams? 
(esp. condering the diminishing returns McConnell describes in his 
discussion of team size in "Rapid Development")

For the types of small-team projects Rev may be ideally suited for a 
stack-based solution is a practical alternative that can be used today. 
  It solves the most common problems immediately, and lays the 
foundation for enhancements to something more well-suited for 100-person 
teams down the road.

-- 
  Richard Gaskin
  Fourth World Media Corporation
  ___________________________________________________________
  Ambassador at FourthWorld.com       http://www.FourthWorld.com

From erikhans08 at yahoo.com  Wed Feb 25 20:07:04 2004
From: erikhans08 at yahoo.com (Erik Hansen)
Date: Wed, 25 Feb 2004 17:07:04 -0800 (PST)
Subject: what does "install" mean?
In-Reply-To: <a05200f0abc6113310055@[10.0.0.2]>
Message-ID: <20040226010704.12678.qmail@web61109.mail.yahoo.com>


what does "install" mean?
no Transcript Dictionary listing
71 listings in Search the Docs

using lab computers means "installing"
for each use from a ZIP disk, not
what was initially planned.

start using stack "urStack"
send "installIt" to cd 1 of stack "urStack"
something called an "Application" by Finder
is created. it is not an editable stack.

now the (external?) function,
call it niceFunction(),
works, or doesn't.

also should such an Application be deleted
after each use? or is it ok to send "installme"
when the thing is already 
installed.

thanks, pardon the boluxed up syntax.

Erik Hansen


=====
erik at erikhansen.org    http://www.erikhansen.org

__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Mail SpamGuard - Read only the mail you want.
http://antispam.yahoo.com/tools

From squance at elkvalley.net  Wed Feb 25 20:07:40 2004
From: squance at elkvalley.net (David Squance)
Date: Wed, 25 Feb 2004 18:07:40 -0700
Subject: Printing problem
In-Reply-To: <B2FC27CA-67F1-11D8-95F7-000A95DA60FA@adelphia.net>
References: <l03130316bc62c3179bbe@[192.168.1.100]>
 <l0313030cbc38d03efeeb@[192.168.1.100]>
 <l03130316bc62c3179bbe@[192.168.1.100]>
Message-ID: <l0313031bbc62f6ad3eee@[192.168.1.100]>

>You probably have a timing issue that you are not allowing enough time
>in your loop for rev to put the item to be printed to collect and then
>send to your printer.
>
>Check out your loop and with messages etc.
>
Thanks for the reply.  I don't understand it, however.  What loop?  The
script masks the buttons, turns off the borders, prints the card, turns on
the borders and that's it.  And what does "and with messages" mean?  I had
a look at the message watcher while it crashed, and there was nothing there
that gave any clues.
Dave



From 3mcgrath at adelphia.net  Wed Feb 25 20:40:23 2004
From: 3mcgrath at adelphia.net (Thomas McGrath III)
Date: Wed, 25 Feb 2004 20:40:23 -0500
Subject: scale only for eps
Message-ID: <BEA2D83C-67FC-11D8-95F7-000A95DA60FA@adelphia.net>

Does anyone know why eps's are so special they get a scale property????

Why can't graphics or images get this property as well????

It's not fair.

Thanks

Tom

Macintosh PowerBook G-4 OSX 10.3.1, OS 9.2.2, 1.25 GHz, 512MB RAM, Rev 
2.1.2


Advanced Media Group
Thomas J McGrath III	? 2003 ?	3mcgrath at adelphia.net
220 Drake Road, Bethel Park, PA 15102



From 3mcgrath at adelphia.net  Wed Feb 25 20:44:00 2004
From: 3mcgrath at adelphia.net (Thomas McGrath III)
Date: Wed, 25 Feb 2004 20:44:00 -0500
Subject: Printing problem
In-Reply-To: <l0313031bbc62f6ad3eee@[192.168.1.100]>
References: <l03130316bc62c3179bbe@[192.168.1.100]>
	<l0313030cbc38d03efeeb@[192.168.1.100]>
	<l03130316bc62c3179bbe@[192.168.1.100]>
	<l0313031bbc62f6ad3eee@[192.168.1.100]>
Message-ID: <40152B60-67FD-11D8-95F7-000A95DA60FA@adelphia.net>

I assume to get the contents you must go through each field??? if not 
then there is not loop.

Timing after a print command is what I meant. It is always best to 
allow time for these things to complete.

Tom


>  I'm trying to print
> the content of a couple dozen fields in a sort of contrived array with 
> a
> simple "print this card" statement in a button
On Feb 25, 2004, at 8:07 PM, David Squance wrote:

>> You probably have a timing issue that you are not allowing enough time
>> in your loop for rev to put the item to be printed to collect and then
>> send to your printer.
>>
>> Check out your loop and with messages etc.
>>
> Thanks for the reply.  I don't understand it, however.  What loop?  The
> script masks the buttons, turns off the borders, prints the card, 
> turns on
> the borders and that's it.  And what does "and with messages" mean?  I 
> had
> a look at the message watcher while it crashed, and there was nothing 
> there
> that gave any clues.
> Dave
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>
>

Thomas J. McGrath III
SCS
1000 Killarney Dr.
Pittsburgh, PA 15234
412-885-8541


From chipp at chipp.com  Wed Feb 25 20:45:25 2004
From: chipp at chipp.com (Chipp Walters)
Date: Wed, 25 Feb 2004 19:45:25 -0600
Subject: custom buttons
In-Reply-To: <9CEFBD08-67F4-11D8-95F7-000A95DA60FA@adelphia.net>
References: <403D1CD1.90204@hrz.uni-kassel.de>
	<9CEFBD08-67F4-11D8-95F7-000A95DA60FA@adelphia.net>
Message-ID: <403D4FB5.4040208@chipp.com>

Tom,
Your stack has 83 lines of code.
I created the same effect with 0 lines of code.

go url "http://www.altuit.com/webs/altuit2/4Tom/4Tom.rev"

-Chipp

Thomas McGrath III wrote:

> I would like to share this small stack with you guys.
> 
> It shows the two buttons grouped with the code. I think it is important 
> being able to do this.
> 
> BUT, my code may be rough and I would love some real good input on this. 
> Maybe better suggestions?
> 
> put this in the message box and hit enter.
> 
> go URL "http://users.adelphia.net/~3mcgrath/Buttons.rev"
> 
> Tom
> On Feb 25, 2004, at 5:08 PM, Wilhelm Sanke wrote:
> 
>> On Wed Feb 25  Thomas McGrath III <3mcgrath at adelphia.net> wrote:
>>
>>> I have made my down state and up state 'base' button as the icons of
>>> those states in a transparent button and it looks great.
>>> I want to link a small icon on top of that button and when the user
>>> clicks with the mouse to send mousedown and up to that button 'through'
>>> the icon.
>>> Rev is not doing this. I tried pass mousedown, send "mousedown" to
>>> button "Button 2" and click at button "Button 2" and none of them seem
>>> to work. The last caused REV to freeze up and not receive mouse clicks
>>> at all.
>>>
>>> Should I group them??? should I 'do' something to the icon image???
>>>
>>> Thanks
>>> Tom
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> In "Magic Triangle" - to be found among the "user contributions" at 
>> the Runrev site - I have used a routine which sends a mouseup-message 
>> "through" a field via a "click at" to an underlying graphic.
>>
>> Maybe this is something that could help with your problem?
>>
>> Regards,
>>
>> Wilhelm Sanke
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> use-revolution mailing list
>> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>>
>>
> 
> Thomas J. McGrath III
> SCS
> 1000 Killarney Dr.
> Pittsburgh, PA 15234
> 412-885-8541
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
> 

From 3mcgrath at adelphia.net  Wed Feb 25 21:07:27 2004
From: 3mcgrath at adelphia.net (Thomas McGrath III)
Date: Wed, 25 Feb 2004 21:07:27 -0500
Subject: custom buttons
In-Reply-To: <403D4FB5.4040208@chipp.com>
References: <403D1CD1.90204@hrz.uni-kassel.de>
	<9CEFBD08-67F4-11D8-95F7-000A95DA60FA@adelphia.net>
	<403D4FB5.4040208@chipp.com>
Message-ID: <86CAFACB-6800-11D8-95F7-000A95DA60FA@adelphia.net>

Chipp,

1. I must not have said that the button shape, size, look, and drop 
shadow 'must' be that image I used. This is in order to emulate 
proprietary software written in C used on a hardware device. It is 
written in C  to give a very small footprint in the device.

2. The icon above that button is only 1 of over 5,000 icons that can be 
used in the device. So combining the button shape with icons in another 
app is not feasible. Also, the users can add their own icons to that 
button, another reason for me not to do it in PS etc.

Although your button does what a normal button would do it does not 
have any of the attributes that my button has. I wish I could do this 
with a normal button but I can't. My button has the exact attributes as 
the hardware device. So I am pleased with that but I am not pleased 
with the naming convention needed because I will be allowing the user 
to build these buttons using their own icons and then I have to arrange 
them in grids on the screen. You know like 5 rows with 7 columns, etc.

Also, my 83 has a bit more code that is left over from previous 
attempts so that would be cut in half to 41 and that is for two buttons 
so each button has 21 lines and I was hoping to do the same thing in 
fewer lines AND get the same results.

The background button is one of about four or five used in their 
machines and I need to emulate the others as well.

Thanks though,

Tom


On Feb 25, 2004, at 8:45 PM, Chipp Walters wrote:

> Tom,
> Your stack has 83 lines of code.
> I created the same effect with 0 lines of code.
>
> go url "http://www.altuit.com/webs/altuit2/4Tom/4Tom.rev"
>
> -Chipp
>
> Thomas McGrath III wrote:
>
>> I would like to share this small stack with you guys.
>> It shows the two buttons grouped with the code. I think it is 
>> important being able to do this.
>> BUT, my code may be rough and I would love some real good input on 
>> this. Maybe better suggestions?
>> put this in the message box and hit enter.
>> go URL "http://users.adelphia.net/~3mcgrath/Buttons.rev"
>> Tom
>> On Feb 25, 2004, at 5:08 PM, Wilhelm Sanke wrote:
>>> On Wed Feb 25  Thomas McGrath III <3mcgrath at adelphia.net> wrote:
>>>
>>>> I have made my down state and up state 'base' button as the icons of
>>>> those states in a transparent button and it looks great.
>>>> I want to link a small icon on top of that button and when the user
>>>> clicks with the mouse to send mousedown and up to that button 
>>>> 'through'
>>>> the icon.
>>>> Rev is not doing this. I tried pass mousedown, send "mousedown" to
>>>> button "Button 2" and click at button "Button 2" and none of them 
>>>> seem
>>>> to work. The last caused REV to freeze up and not receive mouse 
>>>> clicks
>>>> at all.
>>>>
>>>> Should I group them??? should I 'do' something to the icon image???
>>>>
>>>> Thanks
>>>> Tom
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> In "Magic Triangle" - to be found among the "user contributions" at 
>>> the Runrev site - I have used a routine which sends a 
>>> mouseup-message "through" a field via a "click at" to an underlying 
>>> graphic.
>>>
>>> Maybe this is something that could help with your problem?
>>>
>>> Regards,
>>>
>>> Wilhelm Sanke
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> use-revolution mailing list
>>> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>>>
>>>
>> Thomas J. McGrath III
>> SCS
>> 1000 Killarney Dr.
>> Pittsburgh, PA 15234
>> 412-885-8541
>> _______________________________________________
>> use-revolution mailing list
>> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>
>

Thomas J. McGrath III
SCS
1000 Killarney Dr.
Pittsburgh, PA 15234
412-885-8541


From 3mcgrath at adelphia.net  Wed Feb 25 22:16:21 2004
From: 3mcgrath at adelphia.net (Thomas McGrath III)
Date: Wed, 25 Feb 2004 22:16:21 -0500
Subject: custom buttons
In-Reply-To: <9CEFBD08-67F4-11D8-95F7-000A95DA60FA@adelphia.net>
References: <403D1CD1.90204@hrz.uni-kassel.de>
	<9CEFBD08-67F4-11D8-95F7-000A95DA60FA@adelphia.net>
Message-ID: <26F085DE-680A-11D8-95F7-000A95DA60FA@adelphia.net>

My Bad,,,,,,

I didn't include the images in that file.

this one has it I swear....

go URL "http://users.adelphia.net/~3mcgrath/Buttons.rev"


Tom



On Feb 25, 2004, at 7:42 PM, Thomas McGrath III wrote:

> I would like to share this small stack with you guys.
>
> It shows the two buttons grouped with the code. I think it is 
> important being able to do this.
>
> BUT, my code may be rough and I would love some real good input on 
> this. Maybe better suggestions?
>
> put this in the message box and hit enter.
>
> go URL "http://users.adelphia.net/~3mcgrath/Buttons.rev"
>
> Tom
> On Feb 25, 2004, at 5:08 PM, Wilhelm Sanke wrote:
>
>> On Wed Feb 25  Thomas McGrath III <3mcgrath at adelphia.net> wrote:
>>
>>> I have made my down state and up state 'base' button as the icons of
>>> those states in a transparent button and it looks great.
>>> I want to link a small icon on top of that button and when the user
>>> clicks with the mouse to send mousedown and up to that button 
>>> 'through'
>>> the icon.
>>> Rev is not doing this. I tried pass mousedown, send "mousedown" to
>>> button "Button 2" and click at button "Button 2" and none of them 
>>> seem
>>> to work. The last caused REV to freeze up and not receive mouse 
>>> clicks
>>> at all.
>>>
>>> Should I group them??? should I 'do' something to the icon image???
>>>
>>> Thanks
>>> Tom
>>
>>
>>
>> In "Magic Triangle" - to be found among the "user contributions" at 
>> the Runrev site - I have used a routine which sends a mouseup-message 
>> "through" a field via a "click at" to an underlying graphic.
>>
>> Maybe this is something that could help with your problem?
>>
>> Regards,
>>
>> Wilhelm Sanke
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> use-revolution mailing list
>> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>>
>>
>
> Thomas J. McGrath III
> SCS
> 1000 Killarney Dr.
> Pittsburgh, PA 15234
> 412-885-8541
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>
>

Thomas J. McGrath III
SCS
1000 Killarney Dr.
Pittsburgh, PA 15234
412-885-8541


From jacque at hyperactivesw.com  Wed Feb 25 22:46:03 2004
From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay)
Date: Wed, 25 Feb 2004 21:46:03 -0600
Subject: Printing problem
In-Reply-To: <l03130316bc62c3179bbe@[192.168.1.100]>
References: <l0313030cbc38d03efeeb@[192.168.1.100]>
	<l03130316bc62c3179bbe@[192.168.1.100]>
Message-ID: <403D6BFB.2090407@hyperactivesw.com>

On 2/25/04 3:31 PM, David Squance wrote:

> One of the two problems is that Rev is freezing every time I attempt to
> print a card.  I downloaded a fresh copy of RR2.1.2 and it made no
> difference.  I can only assume that it is something I've done.  It started
> with my current project--a very simple one card stack.  I'm trying to print
> the content of a couple dozen fields in a sort of contrived array with a
> simple "print this card" statement in a button.  The various buttons, etc
> are masked and the showborder for each field is set to false first. It all
> appears to work as expected, and prints, but shortly after the cursor quits
> flashing and the colour wheel starts spinning.  Help!

What do you mean when you say the buttons are "masked"? I've hit a 
problem in the past where overlaying a field and an image caused print 
problems. Are you placing something over the buttons? What happens if 
you just hide the buttons instead?

I'm assuming from the "colour wheel" reference that you are running OS 
X, right?

-- 
Jacqueline Landman Gay         |     jacque at hyperactivesw.com
HyperActive Software           |     http://www.hyperactivesw.com

From squance at elkvalley.net  Thu Feb 26 00:19:25 2004
From: squance at elkvalley.net (David Squance)
Date: Wed, 25 Feb 2004 22:19:25 -0700
Subject: Printing problem
In-Reply-To: <403D6BFB.2090407@hyperactivesw.com>
References: <l03130316bc62c3179bbe@[192.168.1.100]>
 <l0313030cbc38d03efeeb@[192.168.1.100]>
 <l03130316bc62c3179bbe@[192.168.1.100]>
Message-ID: <l0313031cbc633179cd31@[192.168.1.100]>

>On 2/25/04 3:31 PM, David Squance wrote:
>
>> One of the two problems is that Rev is freezing every time I attempt to
>> print a card.  I downloaded a fresh copy of RR2.1.2 and it made no
>> difference.  I can only assume that it is something I've done.  It started
>> with my current project--a very simple one card stack.  I'm trying to print
>> the content of a couple dozen fields in a sort of contrived array with a
>> simple "print this card" statement in a button.  The various buttons, etc
>> are masked and the showborder for each field is set to false first. It all
>> appears to work as expected, and prints, but shortly after the cursor quits
>> flashing and the colour wheel starts spinning.  Help!
>
>What do you mean when you say the buttons are "masked"? I've hit a
>problem in the past where overlaying a field and an image caused print
>problems. Are you placing something over the buttons? What happens if
>you just hide the buttons instead?
>
>I'm assuming from the "colour wheel" reference that you are running OS
>X, right?

Yes. OS 10.3.2.  I'll try the 'hide' route.  I was just being lazy, having
no idea that that could cause a problem.  I've always used 'hide' before,
but because of the card layout, it seemed much simpler just to create a
dummy button that covered everything I didn't want to print.
Thanks for the suggestion.
Dave



From squance at elkvalley.net  Thu Feb 26 00:22:54 2004
From: squance at elkvalley.net (David Squance)
Date: Wed, 25 Feb 2004 22:22:54 -0700
Subject: Printing problem
In-Reply-To: <40152B60-67FD-11D8-95F7-000A95DA60FA@adelphia.net>
References: <l0313031bbc62f6ad3eee@[192.168.1.100]>
 <l03130316bc62c3179bbe@[192.168.1.100]>
 <l0313030cbc38d03efeeb@[192.168.1.100]>
 <l03130316bc62c3179bbe@[192.168.1.100]>
 <l0313031bbc62f6ad3eee@[192.168.1.100]>
Message-ID: <l0313031dbc6332683a99@[192.168.1.100]>

I see.  I guess I wasn't clear enough before.  There's no cycling.  It just
prints the card (there's only one in the stack) after hiding what I don't
want to print.  Also nothing is waiting to happen after the print, so I
can't see how timing could be an issue.  Do you think there should be some
sort of wait command before the script ends?
Thanks, anyhow.
Dave

>I assume to get the contents you must go through each field??? if not
>then there is not loop.
>
>Timing after a print command is what I meant. It is always best to
>allow time for these things to complete.
>
>Tom
>
>
>>  I'm trying to print
>> the content of a couple dozen fields in a sort of contrived array with
>> a
>> simple "print this card" statement in a button
>On Feb 25, 2004, at 8:07 PM, David Squance wrote:
>
>>> You probably have a timing issue that you are not allowing enough time
>>> in your loop for rev to put the item to be printed to collect and then
>>> send to your printer.
>>>
>>> Check out your loop and with messages etc.
>>>
>> Thanks for the reply.  I don't understand it, however.  What loop?  The
>> script masks the buttons, turns off the borders, prints the card,
>> turns on
>> the borders and that's it.  And what does "and with messages" mean?  I
>> had
>> a look at the message watcher while it crashed, and there was nothing
>> there
>> that gave any clues.
>> Dave
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> use-revolution mailing list
>> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>>
>>
>
>Thomas J. McGrath III
>SCS
>1000 Killarney Dr.
>Pittsburgh, PA 15234
>412-885-8541
>
>_______________________________________________
>use-revolution mailing list
>use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
>http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution




From pixelbird at interisland.net  Thu Feb 26 00:34:18 2004
From: pixelbird at interisland.net (Ken Norris)
Date: Wed, 25 Feb 2004 21:34:18 -0800
Subject: custom buttons
In-Reply-To: <20040225064703.047D2930093@mail.runrev.com>
Message-ID: <BC62C55A.529B%pixelbird@interisland.net>

Hi Thomas,

> Date: Tue, 24 Feb 2004 23:12:21 -0500
> From: Thomas McGrath III <3mcgrath at adelphia.net>
> Subject: custom buttons
 
> Does anyone know if there is a custom button creator for live use
> within rev?
> I can draw my own in Photoshop. What I need is actually to combine two
> graphics from within rev and then it to act like a real button.
> One graphic is a special looking button and the other is an icon to go
> in it then When pushed it needs to push down.
-----------
<http://www.altuit.com/webs/altuit2/RunRev/Tutorials.htm>

While there (or not) you might want to look at:
<http://www.buttongadget.com/buttongadget/default.htm>

...plus I'll send you one that does an additional mouseEnter hilite if you
like.

Another uncommon option:

When I first got Rev I had a keyboard I had made in HC using Uli Kusterer's
xDraw. It was 2 fullscreen picts, one of 'up' state keys and one of 'down'
state keys. The actual buttons were all transparent, each using it's rect to
'see' the matching rect of the 'down' state pict, which existed only in RAM
until the external called the matching rect of it.

In Rev I was shown how to use a group to accomplish a similar task. The
problems came with special buttons that had to remain in 'down' state until
another button was clicked, like 'shift'

Lemme dig that up and see if any of it still works (I goofed around with it
awhile then sort of abandoned it).

OK, looks like the letter keys (buttons) work. The left shift key is goofed
up and the speech key turns on speech but doesn't stay lit. The CapsLock key
appears to work fine, however. None of the function keys 'function' of
course, and some of the buttons are causing a clone to appear in the middle,
which I don't recall happening before.

Anyway, the function you're looking for is there, albeit uncommented.

If you'd like to see those two things, I'd be happy to send them over. Lemme
know...

Ken N.


From squance at elkvalley.net  Thu Feb 26 00:43:24 2004
From: squance at elkvalley.net (David Squance)
Date: Wed, 25 Feb 2004 22:43:24 -0700
Subject: Printing problem
In-Reply-To: <l0313031cbc633179cd31@[192.168.1.100]>
References: <403D6BFB.2090407@hyperactivesw.com>
 <l03130316bc62c3179bbe@[192.168.1.100]>
 <l0313030cbc38d03efeeb@[192.168.1.100]>
 <l03130316bc62c3179bbe@[192.168.1.100]>
Message-ID: <l0313031fbc6337325d0f@[192.168.1.100]>

>>On 2/25/04 3:31 PM, David Squance wrote:
>>
>>> One of the two problems is that Rev is freezing every time I attempt to
>>> print a card.  I downloaded a fresh copy of RR2.1.2 and it made no
>>> difference.  I can only assume that it is something I've done.  It started
>>> with my current project--a very simple one card stack.  I'm trying to print
>>> the content of a couple dozen fields in a sort of contrived array with a
>>> simple "print this card" statement in a button.  The various buttons, etc
>>> are masked and the showborder for each field is set to false first. It all
>>> appears to work as expected, and prints, but shortly after the cursor quits
>>> flashing and the colour wheel starts spinning.  Help!
>>
>>What do you mean when you say the buttons are "masked"? I've hit a
>>problem in the past where overlaying a field and an image caused print
>>problems. Are you placing something over the buttons? What happens if
>>you just hide the buttons instead?
>>
>>I'm assuming from the "colour wheel" reference that you are running OS
>>X, right?
>
>Yes. OS 10.3.2.  I'll try the 'hide' route.  I was just being lazy, having
>no idea that that could cause a problem.  I've always used 'hide' before,
>but because of the card layout, it seemed much simpler just to create a
>dummy button that covered everything I didn't want to print.
>Thanks for the suggestion.
>Dave

Well, I remembered a short while ago seeing in the docs that an area of a
card can be specified for printing, eg 0,0 to 500,300 (or the mouseloc, in
their example).  So I dumped the mask button and tried that.  No joy.  Any
more suggestions gratefully received.
Dave



From valetia at mac.com  Thu Feb 26 01:35:05 2004
From: valetia at mac.com (Valetia Lowe)
Date: Wed, 25 Feb 2004 22:35:05 -0800
Subject: Important question regarding next major Rev version
Message-ID: <14533917.1077777305238.JavaMail.valetia@mac.com>

Hi all,

Warning: The following should be viewed as "serious constructive criticism", much like how Mac users criticize Apple management sometimes, when they do something silly to a nice product. So don't take it the wrong way.

I've been programming since HyperCard was first introduced and I do like Revolution, but I think there are some things that need to be addressed urgently and openly by the Rev team.

For those of you who don't understand what the rest of this message is all about, then don't mind me. If you don't know what a "widget" is in the computer world and can't tell a polished native user interface from a hacked up one, then by all means skip to the next message.  

So with that in mind - here goes...

OK - after having used Rev for over a year, it has become apparent that there are a number of major issues that have not been resolved and may not be resolved anytime soon.

Some of these have been promised for years now to be included in an upcoming release, but they keep being postponed. Waiting a year or more for an expected feature to be included can cost some major $$$.

- real list fields with the option for real column headers that can be dragged around and with built-in column sorting like real columns do. You know what I'm talking about. "Normal" development environments allow you to drag these things right into your project, no fuss.

- look at what rev is calling a "table object". It's hacked up too. Doesn't look real at all. Turn on editable cells and you'll see what I mean. The edit boxes look way too huge - why does Rev not use the native ones???? 

- native progress bars on all platforms. I don't know how many people actually notice this (apparently nobody has even brought this up), but the current progress bars suck. They aren't real. On Mac OS X they pretend to be real but the aqua liquid doesn't flow from right to left like it should!! On Windows XP they look like Win95 progress bars!!

- native scroll bars on Windows. Again on XP they look like 95 bars.

- native combo boxes. Same thing.

- native tabs! On Panther they look like Jaguar tabs, and on XP they look like...you know what they look like!!

- and of course the buttons!!! Enter Button Gadget. But should it have been necessary in the first place? Another hack. *sigh* Why not have real ones to begin with? Why can't it be like other apps, which have their widgets automatically updated if you use a newer OS? Why the emulation?

What is worrying is that the brief description about the upcoming version of revolution mentions the use of "Windows Themes"...that sounds like yet another hack. Why can't we just have native widgets - not "themes"??

You know, I may be spending less time coding but I am spending much more time trying to make the interface look as natural as possible on each of the major platforms, doing silly things like:

1. Placing a field with graphics in it behind another field to get a not-so-convincing iTunes lines effect. With other environments you can just easily define the color of each row. And look at the color of the hilite when you select a line...it's not normal!! Try it and you will see the difference.

2. Creating another field that pretends to be the column headers of a list field, and manually writing all the necessary code for resizing, and have it still not look 100% native, and worst of all *this should not have been necessary in the first place*!!! How can list fields not have support for real column headers??? Real ones, that have the correct gradients on the correct platforms, the correct cursor when you mouseover the divider line for resizing, the correct sort direction icon, etc. etc. etc. really all this is already built into each OS, all rev needs to do is to interface with them, but it does not...why???? 

3. No support for native re-ordering of items in a list field! Again, I had to spend an entire day just re-creating something that comes built into every OS!!

4. I could go on and on...but the rev widgets just don't look and act normal, and there are many missing pieces. Can someone from the rev team *really* explain why this is so?

And of course there is the SSL feature, which people have been asking for since at least Jan 2002 and which has been promised but still nothing. It was promised for 2.2 but suddenly, no more 2.2! What happened to it? Of course, it is now promised for 2.5...

I see that most people who use rev don't seem to care about the user interface of built desktop applications. Why?

If anyone else on this list feels the same way, *anyone* at all, please chime in. Why on earth nobody seems flustered about this, I don't know. Is it really so much trouble to get native widgets into rev??

(And yes, I am expecting a clear and concise answer to that question from the rev team.)

Well, that's about it. As someone who's usually optimistic about things, I've been let down too many times with each rev release. Nobody seems to be doing anything about the native widgets...and yes you can take your time (read: years) to implement themes (how long has XP been around now?) but what happens when the next OS arrives? Hacks are never the answer.

At this rate by the time the rev "XP themes" are ready, Longhorn would have come and gone...

I hope someone takes this seriously and looks into it...or could these issues just go by unnoticed - again????

Oh yes - the question. So here's the question:

Will the upcoming release of rev take care of *ALL* of these issues???????? Really??? On all platforms including Windows??

Val






From pixelbird at interisland.net  Thu Feb 26 01:44:21 2004
From: pixelbird at interisland.net (Ken Norris)
Date: Wed, 25 Feb 2004 22:44:21 -0800
Subject: custom buttons
In-Reply-To: <20040225170004.997A1930057@mail.runrev.com>
Message-ID: <BC62D5C5.52C4%pixelbird@interisland.net>

Howdy,

> Date: Wed, 25 Feb 2004 10:26:57 -0600
> From: "J. Landman Gay" <jacque at hyperactivesw.com>
> Subject: Re: custom buttons

> The usual way to do this is to create the entire button as an image in a
> graphics program. Include the actual button shape itself, as well as its
> "icon," as a single image. Make two of these, one for the "up" state and
> another for the "down" state. Then create a transparent button and set
> its icon to the "up" state image, and its hilitedicon to the "down"
> state image.
> 
> You get all the button behaviors and messages automatically, but the
> user sees only the icon, which looks like a button.
-----------
Right. I did it for three states (up, down, and armed), never bothered to
make it transparent or anything. I just made three images, just modifying
the original for each of the other two states. Then I just did this:

1) I imported the three images and noted their id's.

2) In my plain vanilla button's Inspector I clicked on "Icons & Border".

2) Set the Icon to the original, the Hilite to the second modified one, and
the Armed to the third one.

It sure ain't rocket science is it? Good rev...Nice Rev...Cool Rev...

Ken N.


From ambassador at fourthworld.com  Thu Feb 26 01:51:27 2004
From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin)
Date: Wed, 25 Feb 2004 22:51:27 -0800
Subject: Important question regarding next major Rev version
In-Reply-To: <14533917.1077777305238.JavaMail.valetia@mac.com>
References: <14533917.1077777305238.JavaMail.valetia@mac.com>
Message-ID: <403D976F.6070208@fourthworld.com>

Valetia Lowe wrote:

> 3. No support for native re-ordering of items in a list field!
 > Again, I had to spend an entire day just re-creating something
 > that comes built into every OS!!

What's the API for that?  I was under the impression it required a 
custom list proc, and at the expense of other behaviors (like drag 
selection).

-- 
  Richard Gaskin
  Fourth World Media Corporation
  ___________________________________________________________
  Ambassador at FourthWorld.com       http://www.FourthWorld.com

From pixelbird at interisland.net  Thu Feb 26 01:51:37 2004
From: pixelbird at interisland.net (Ken Norris)
Date: Wed, 25 Feb 2004 22:51:37 -0800
Subject: custom buttons
In-Reply-To: <20040225175433.CDB79930061@mail.runrev.com>
Message-ID: <BC62D779.52C6%pixelbird@interisland.net>

Hi Thomas,

> Date: Wed, 25 Feb 2004 12:35:10 -0500
> From: Thomas McGrath III <3mcgrath at adelphia.net>
> Subject: Re: custom buttons
> 
> So, my greatest available choice here looks like linking images
> together in a group and making that 'act' like a button.
-----------
Nah, it's way easier. You just set the button's icon and hilite icon to your
images' id's in the Inspector. That's all.

Sorry it's not more difficult than that, but....

Hope you checked my other posts.

Ken N.


From monte at sweattechnologies.com  Thu Feb 26 02:00:17 2004
From: monte at sweattechnologies.com (Monte Goulding)
Date: Thu, 26 Feb 2004 17:30:17 +1030
Subject: Important question regarding next major Rev version
In-Reply-To: <14533917.1077777305238.JavaMail.valetia@mac.com>
Message-ID: <FLEGJBMJADGKMCHIMFOHAEJLEBAA.monte@sweattechnologies.com>


> Oh yes - the question. So here's the question:
>
> Will the upcoming release of rev take care of *ALL* of these
> issues???????? Really??? On all platforms including Windows??

Wow! Nice rant!

While I understand your frustration (particularly with regard to native XP
look and feel) we all need to make decisions everyday about how we are going
to apply our limited resources. For what it's worth I think RunRev have made
a wise decision to focus on compenting with RealBasic and SuperCard as they
build their company up. To pump money into trying to break into the Visual
Basic market could break them if they tried it too early. I don't think any
of us want that???

PS I don't know if you have had much experience on Windows XP but it's a
themed OS. That means when RunRev states (as they have publicly) that they
will have Windows XP theme support that we are getting native look and feel
for Windows.

PPS It would certainly be great for us all if RunRev spoke openly about it's
development plans. Unfortunately it would also be great for their
competitors. It's hard to try and be in front of the pack when everyone
knows what your planning and can race you there.

Cheers

Monte


From ambassador at fourthworld.com  Thu Feb 26 02:28:54 2004
From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin)
Date: Wed, 25 Feb 2004 23:28:54 -0800
Subject: Important question regarding next major Rev version
In-Reply-To: <14533917.1077777305238.JavaMail.valetia@mac.com>
References: <14533917.1077777305238.JavaMail.valetia@mac.com>
Message-ID: <403DA036.9050802@fourthworld.com>

Valetia Lowe wrote:

> Will the upcoming release of rev take care of *ALL* of
 > these issues???????? Really??? On all platforms including
 > Windows??

That's a pretty tall list.  From their announcement at MacWorld in 
January it seems some of them are well underway, even though most of 
them range from non-trivial (like the drag-reordering in lists) to 
really, really difficult (customizable resizable reorderable scriptable 
headers for multicolumn lists), so I don't know if it's possible to 
deliver them all in the next version.

I may be a little slow, but I can't even offer a recommendation for all 
the syntax and properties that would be required for the list headers. 
I've scripted some nice ones so I know how hard it is to do even a 
non-customizable implementation, and I can barely imagine what it would 
take to do something in a flexible scripting environment. If you have 
recommendations it might be worthwhile floating them on the Improve-Rev 
list for review.

Everything you listed is important and should be done as soon as 
possible.  It just may be a bit much to expect it all right away.

Even as Rev is now, it compares favorably with many higher-priced 
options.  For example, while most of your list are refinements on basics 
already in the package, many of those basics are no more well 
implemented in ToolBook or Director, if available at all in those tools.

One of those items is an improvement in subtle nuances of scrollbar 
rendering, but HyperCard didn't even have scrollbars at all, nor even 
any means of making anything close to a normal scrolling document 
window.  Looking at the big picture, Rev has delivered a lot already.

Alternate line coloring is another example.  It would be really nice to 
have, but until it's implemented it's hardly going to shut down a 
mission-critical application to have a list displayed without alternate 
coloring for rows.  It's a nice-to-have, one I'd really like to see too, 
but it's not stopping me from profitably shipping applications in the 
meantime.

I don't know if you've done any lower-level (C or Pascal) programming 
with the Mac Control Manager, and it's been years since I've bothered 
myself with it.  One of the reasons I got so excited about 4GLs is that 
the Control Manager is a rat's nest.  I can't cite one 4GL that uses it 
directly; it just isn't flexible enough for what scripters like you and 
  I need from controls.  Yes, the new APIs and are much cleaner and the 
frameworks available make using them much easier, but platform-specific 
frameworks do nothing for a 12-platform tool.

And Quartz is not without its quirks as well. Talk to anyone who's tried 
using the recommended Carbon API to render a pulsing default button 
against anything but Apple's white or striped backgrounds and you'll 
probably have to clean your ears out from all the cursing.  At the 
Carbon Kitchens Apple's response is that you should never need to do 
that, but of course if you're making an authoring tool it's really hard 
to tell that to your customers, so you have to dig deeper and do things 
they tell you not to do.  And then you have to do that hard process over 
again for every platform, each with its own quirks and limitations.

Boot CGG and make a window with a field that displays a file and keeps 
the scrollbar set appropriately.  It's trivial in HyperCard, Rev, etc., 
but I can tell you from firsthand experience it isn't trivial under the 
hood, at least not in the Classic Control Manager.

So I'm right there with you in terms of wanting everything you asked 
for. But I'm willing to be patient and let them roll them out when they 
can do so solidly and in a way that integrates well with the language.

In the meantime the current engine offers so much there aren't enough 
hours in the day to build all the things I can build with it.  And even 
with the occassional nuance in control rendering being not just so, it 
hasn't stopped my Rev-based product from getting a 4.5-out-of-five mouse 
review in MacWorld.

These nuances and features are important to us, but they rarely prevent 
us from improving a customer's quality of life by delivering a valuable 
application.  And as the engine improves, the work you deliver only 
keeps getting better.

-- 
  Richard Gaskin
  Fourth World Media Corporation
  ___________________________________________________________
  Ambassador at FourthWorld.com       http://www.FourthWorld.com

From pixelbird at interisland.net  Thu Feb 26 02:30:39 2004
From: pixelbird at interisland.net (Ken Norris)
Date: Wed, 25 Feb 2004 23:30:39 -0800
Subject: disabled buttons
In-Reply-To: <20040225202654.BA5CB9300D7@mail.runrev.com>
Message-ID: <BC62E09F.52C7%pixelbird@interisland.net>

Hi Thomas,

> Date: Wed, 25 Feb 2004 15:06:12 -0500
> From: Thomas McGrath III <3mcgrath at adelphia.net>
> Subject: Re: disabled buttons
> 
> Robert,
> 
> my problem is they don't pass mouseUp's either. I need them to.
> 
> If disabled i want the mouseUp to go to the item under the disabled
> button.
----------
It won't do that from your top button if it's disabled.

Disabled means disabled...it doesn't work. You can send a message
'externally' in another script, but a disabled button won't respond to mouse
events, 0, zilch, nada, end of story.

I'm having difficulty making any sense of why a user would expect a disabled
button to do anything, but you could put a mouseUp handler in the card
instead of the button and spec it thus:

on mouseUp
  if the mouseLoc is within the rect of button "TopButton" then
    if the disabled of button "TopButton" is true then
      send mouseUp to button "UnderButton"
    end if
  end if
  pass mouseUp
end mouseUp

HTH,
Ken N.


From chipp at chipp.com  Thu Feb 26 02:33:41 2004
From: chipp at chipp.com (Chipp Walters)
Date: Thu, 26 Feb 2004 01:33:41 -0600
Subject: Important question regarding next major Rev version
In-Reply-To: <14533917.1077777305238.JavaMail.valetia@mac.com>
References: <14533917.1077777305238.JavaMail.valetia@mac.com>
Message-ID: <403DA155.9090108@chipp.com>

Hi Valetia,

Though I'm somewhat suspicious of first-time-posters with such a dire 
outlook, I'll do my best to try and answer some of your questions, and 
perhaps pose a few in return.

 >- real list fields with the option for real column headers that can be 
 >dragged around and with built-in column sorting like real columns do. 
 >You know what I'm talking about. "Normal" development environments 
 >allow you to drag these things right into your project, no fuss.

While it would be nice to have some sort of list fields as you describe, 
the problem comes when it just doesn't do exactly as you want. Case in 
point, VB. Buttons in VB only act one way. You can't script them to do 
anything differently. In many cases, I want the power and capability to 
edit the function of the control...something you can't do in VB as it's 
an ActiveX component. So, I roll my own, just like the VB guys do. In 
fact there's a cottage industry built up around roll-your-own ActiveX 
controls in VB. You can get different lists, trees, buttons, tabs, 
toolbars -- all for a price. You can do the same in RunRev. I wrote a 
XMLtree control one time, and use it in about 8 different places.

 >- look at what rev is calling a "table object". It's hacked up too. 
 >Doesn't look real at all. Turn on editable cells and you'll see what I 
 >mean. The edit boxes look way too huge - why does Rev not use the 
 >native ones????

Agreed. RR needs a table object. Course you could also write an ActiveX 
DLL (we have a test version) which can use existing Table Objects and 
other Active X controls, so you could have real widgets. RR is a small 
company with limited resources and a very large task. They have to build 
'widgets' for multiple platforms. Looked at Java's widgets lately? They, 
too, have 'look and feel' problems.

 >- native progress bars on all platforms. <snip>
 >- native scroll bars on Windows. <snip>
 >- native combo boxes. Same thing.
 >- native tabs! <snip>


 >- and of course the buttons!!! Enter Button Gadget. <snip>
 >Why the emulation?

I believe it's already been mentioned here that native XP look and feel 
support will be available next release.

Why the emulation? Well, in my case, I use ButtonGadget to build apps 
which I can move from platform to platform with their own native 
interface. It makes things much easier for me to port. Lots of other 
cross platform programs do the same (Newtek Lightwave and graphics 
programs already create their own GUI's, as does Trolltech QT and some 
flavors of Java)

 >You know, I may be spending less time coding but I am spending much 
 >more time trying to make the interface look as natural as possible on 
 >each of the major platforms, doing silly things like:

 >1. Placing a field with graphics in it<snip>
 >2. Creating another field that pretends to be the column headers of a 
 >list field, <snip>
 >3. No support for native re-ordering of items in a list field! <snip>

I am sorry you are so frustrated. Perhaps if you post a copy of your 
stacks online, some of us may be able to help you make them look more 
professional?

 >4. I could go on and on...but the rev widgets just don't look and act 
 >normal, and there are many missing pieces. Can someone from the rev 
 >team *really* explain why this is so?

I'll leave this for Tuviah to detail, but both Trolltech QT and Java 
(the other cross-platform authoring toolkits) have the same problem with 
look and feel. Course, IMHO, it doesn't bother me too much. I seem to be 
able to design and release products with little complaint regarding the 
interface look and feel from my users.

 >And of course there is the SSL feature, which people have been asking 
 >for since at least Jan 2002 and which has been promised but still 
 >nothing. It was promised for 2.2 but suddenly, no more 2.2! What 
 >happened to it? Of course, it is now promised for 2.5...

Geez, now it sounds like you are just whining. C'mon, when RR didn't 
have browser support, I purchased one (altBrowser). Same for proxy 
servers. If you're a professional programmer, and you *need* a feature, 
you can *always* get someone to write it for you! RR *is* extensible 
that way! You can certainly add SSL for less than the cost of a single 
TrollTech license.

 >I see that most people who use rev don't seem to care about the user 
 >interface of built desktop applications. Why?

Why would you posit such a ludicrous statement? I know that I care about 
interface issues *very* much. Frankly, now you're starting to sound like 
a Marketing person from a competing company.

-Chipp


From rcozens at pon.net  Thu Feb 26 01:16:32 2004
From: rcozens at pon.net (Rob Cozens)
Date: Wed, 25 Feb 2004 23:16:32 -0700
Subject: Serious applications
In-Reply-To: <403CFC7F.8010201@act-net.com>
References: <a05100300bc628533609f@[66.52.165.38]>
 <403CFC7F.8010201@act-net.com>
Message-ID: <a05100301bc633cdba29b@[66.52.165.45]>

>But I _am_ saying that every C, C++, Java, PHP, Shellscript 
>programmer will be able to understand it

Gee, Marc,

I kinda figured every English-speaking programmer (and even some non 
programmers) could understand:

>put 0 into word3Total
>repeat for each line theValues in someText
>     add word 3 of item 6 of theValues to word3Total
>end repeat

And I put that in because you indicated you couldn't imagine why you 
would ever need to get word 3 of item 6 of line 17 of someText. 
Scenario: Your project leader gives you a CD and says, "Here is a 
comma-delimited text file of financial data.  The sixth field in each 
record contains three numeric values separated by spaces.  I need to 
know the total of the third value for all records."
-- 

Rob Cozens
CCW, Serendipity Software Company
http://www.oenolog.net/who.htm

"And I, which was two fooles, do so grow three;
Who are a little wise, the best fooles bee."

from "The Triple Foole" by John Donne (1572-1631)

From rcozens at pon.net  Thu Feb 26 01:24:39 2004
From: rcozens at pon.net (Rob Cozens)
Date: Wed, 25 Feb 2004 23:24:39 -0700
Subject: Serious applications
In-Reply-To: <6D0880AB-67D3-11D8-9ABD-0030654C1E62@realtorsgroup.us>
References: <6D0880AB-67D3-11D8-9ABD-0030654C1E62@realtorsgroup.us>
Message-ID: <a05100302bc6341009c0b@[66.52.165.45]>

>Which download is the sql examples

None.  I use SDB not SQL myself.

I was simply noting that Revolution supports several different SQL dbs.
-- 

Rob Cozens
CCW, Serendipity Software Company
http://www.oenolog.net/who.htm

"And I, which was two fooles, do so grow three;
Who are a little wise, the best fooles bee."

from "The Triple Foole" by John Donne (1572-1631)

From alex at mindlube.com  Thu Feb 26 02:45:48 2004
From: alex at mindlube.com (Alex Rice)
Date: Thu, 26 Feb 2004 00:45:48 -0700
Subject: Important question regarding next major Rev version
In-Reply-To: <403D976F.6070208@fourthworld.com>
References: <14533917.1077777305238.JavaMail.valetia@mac.com>
	<403D976F.6070208@fourthworld.com>
Message-ID: <CABDBE41-682F-11D8-8F64-000393C4760A@mindlube.com>


On Feb 25, 2004, at 11:51 PM, Richard Gaskin wrote:

> Valetia Lowe wrote:
>
>> 3. No support for native re-ordering of items in a list field!
> > Again, I had to spend an entire day just re-creating something
> > that comes built into every OS!!
>
> What's the API for that?  I was under the impression it required a 
> custom list proc, and at the expense of other behaviors (like drag 
> selection).

Well Cocoa has NSTableView and NSOutlineView, both of which have 
messages for performing drag-n-drop of 1 or more rows within the 
control, or to the pasteboard for destinations outside the control.

But that's very specific to Objective-C and Cocoa. Don't know what it 
is for Carbon, and not sure how they would map onto Rev's API either. 
The Cocoa controls are likely quite different from the Win32 
table-outline view equivalent, or the GTK one, or the Qt-KDE one, or 
the Mac Toolkit one, Powerplant one, etc. etc.

Like most of my posts, just some random observations... :-)

--
Alex Rice | Mindlube Software | http://mindlube.com


From alex at mindlube.com  Thu Feb 26 02:52:52 2004
From: alex at mindlube.com (Alex Rice)
Date: Thu, 26 Feb 2004 00:52:52 -0700
Subject: Important question regarding next major Rev version
In-Reply-To: <14533917.1077777305238.JavaMail.valetia@mac.com>
References: <14533917.1077777305238.JavaMail.valetia@mac.com>
Message-ID: <C777E384-6830-11D8-8F64-000393C4760A@mindlube.com>


On Feb 25, 2004, at 11:35 PM, Valetia Lowe wrote:

> Will the upcoming release of rev take care of *ALL* of these 
> issues???????? Really??? On all platforms including Windows??

Those who can respond in detail to what's in the next release are under 
non-disclosure agreement.

But I sympathize and also wish for more "roadmap" types of 
announcements from Runrev.

Something that you should be aware though is that except for Mac OS X 
"appearance manager", all the other look & feels, including Windows and 
Linux, are all *emulated*. That means native controls are *not being 
used*.

Emulated controls are actually quite common among cross-platform GUI 
toolkits.

So you should not be expecting native controls everywhere- that is 
simply not how Rev works, in past and present releases at least.

That is my understanding at least, and would be glad to be corrected 
about the native vs. emulated controls specifics in Runrev.

Hope this helps,

--
Alex Rice | Mindlube Software | http://mindlube.com


From chipp at chipp.com  Thu Feb 26 02:53:30 2004
From: chipp at chipp.com (Chipp Walters)
Date: Thu, 26 Feb 2004 01:53:30 -0600
Subject: Important question regarding next major Rev version]
Message-ID: <403DA5FA.4050509@chipp.com>

Hi Valetia,

Though I'm somewhat suspicious of first-time-posters with such a dire
outlook, I'll do my best to try and answer some of your questions, and
perhaps pose a few in return.

>- real list fields with the option for real column headers that can be 
>dragged around and with built-in column sorting like real columns do. 
>You know what I'm talking about. "Normal" development environments 
>allow you to drag these things right into your project, no fuss.

While it would be nice to have some sort of list fields as you describe,
the problem comes when it just doesn't do exactly as you want. Case in
point, VB. Buttons in VB only act one way. You can't script them to do
anything differently. In many cases, I want the power and capability to
edit the function of the control...something you can't do in VB as it's
an ActiveX component. So, I roll my own, just like the VB guys do. In
fact there's a cottage industry built up around roll-your-own ActiveX
controls in VB. You can get different lists, trees, buttons, tabs,
toolbars -- all for a price. You can do the same in RunRev. I wrote a
XMLtree control one time, and use it in about 8 different places.

>- look at what rev is calling a "table object". It's hacked up too. 
>Doesn't look real at all. Turn on editable cells and you'll see what I 
>mean. The edit boxes look way too huge - why does Rev not use the 
>native ones????

Agreed. RR needs a table object. Course you could also write an ActiveX
DLL (we have a test version) which can use existing Table Objects and
other Active X controls, so you could have real widgets. RR is a small
company with limited resources and a very large task. They have to build
'widgets' for multiple platforms. Looked at Java's widgets lately? They,
too, have 'look and feel' problems.

>- native progress bars on all platforms. <snip>
>- native scroll bars on Windows. <snip>
>- native combo boxes. Same thing.
>- native tabs! <snip>


>- and of course the buttons!!! Enter Button Gadget. <snip>
>Why the emulation?

I believe it's already been mentioned here that native XP look and feel
support will be available next release.

Why the emulation? Well, in my case, I use ButtonGadget to build apps
which I can move from platform to platform with their own native
interface. It makes things much easier for me to port. Lots of other
cross platform programs do the same (Newtek Lightwave and graphics
programs already create their own GUI's, as does Trolltech QT and some
flavors of Java)

>You know, I may be spending less time coding but I am spending much 
>more time trying to make the interface look as natural as possible on 
>each of the major platforms, doing silly things like:

>1. Placing a field with graphics in it<snip>
>2. Creating another field that pretends to be the column headers of a 
>list field, <snip>
>3. No support for native re-ordering of items in a list field! <snip>

I am sorry you are so frustrated. Perhaps if you post a copy of your
stacks online, some of us may be able to help you make them look more
professional?

>4. I could go on and on...but the rev widgets just don't look and act 
>normal, and there are many missing pieces. Can someone from the rev 
>team *really* explain why this is so?

I'll leave this for Tuviah to detail, but both Trolltech QT and Java
(the other cross-platform authoring toolkits) have the same problem with
look and feel. Course, IMHO, it doesn't bother me too much. I seem to be
able to design and release products with little complaint regarding the
interface look and feel from my users.

>And of course there is the SSL feature, which people have been asking 
>for since at least Jan 2002 and which has been promised but still 
>nothing. It was promised for 2.2 but suddenly, no more 2.2! What 
>happened to it? Of course, it is now promised for 2.5...

Geez, now it sounds like you are just whining. C'mon, when RR didn't
have browser support, I purchased one (altBrowser). Same for proxy
servers. If you're a professional programmer, and you *need* a feature,
you can *always* get someone to write it for you! RR *is* extensible
that way! You can certainly add SSL for less than the cost of a single
TrollTech license.

>I see that most people who use rev don't seem to care about the user 
>interface of built desktop applications. Why?

Why would you posit such a ludicrous statement? I know that I care about
interface issues *very* much. Frankly, now you're starting to sound like
a Marketing person from a competing company.

-Chipp




From rjb at rz.uni-potsdam.de  Thu Feb 26 03:40:12 2004
From: rjb at rz.uni-potsdam.de (Robert Brenstein)
Date: Thu, 26 Feb 2004 09:40:12 +0100
Subject: Important question regarding next major Rev version]
In-Reply-To: <403DA5FA.4050509@chipp.com>
References: <403DA5FA.4050509@chipp.com>
Message-ID: <a0602044cbc635d4b658f@[141.89.100.235]>

>Hi Valetia,
>
>Though I'm somewhat suspicious of first-time-posters with such a dire
>outlook, I'll do my best to try and answer some of your questions, and
>perhaps pose a few in return.
>
>>- real list fields with the option for real column headers that can 
>>be dragged around and with built-in column sorting like real 
>>columns do. You know what I'm talking about. "Normal" development 
>>environments allow you to drag these things right into your 
>>project, no fuss.
>
>

Chipp, Valetia is hardly a first-time poster if you care to check the 
archives. He might have come strong but we should understand where he 
is coming from and be sympathetic rather than trying to prove to him 
that he is wrong .It seems that every few months someone vents their 
frustration with Rev on the list. This must mean something. How many 
do it in private we will never know. I know that while I am normally 
quite happy with the environment and heartedly recommend it to 
anyone, I also have ocassional bouts of such frustration when 
exceeding my threshold of having to work around bugs or 
inconsistences or hitting some limits. Some of these could have and 
should have been addressed by now. Let's not forget that each of us 
uses Rev somewhat differently, so we run into somewhat different 
issues and have a different look at what is and what should be. But 
at least we now have (still greatly under-utilized) voting option in 
Bugzilla as a means to give feedback to Rev team on our collective 
priorities.

Robert Brenstein

From albrecht at act-net.com  Thu Feb 26 04:15:01 2004
From: albrecht at act-net.com (A.C.T.)
Date: Thu, 26 Feb 2004 10:15:01 +0100
Subject: Serious applications
In-Reply-To: <E0F234CB-67F2-11D8-9153-000393C4760A@mindlube.com>
References: <027101c3fbee$fd024b00$6601a8c0@LightningFlash>
	<E0F234CB-67F2-11D8-9153-000393C4760A@mindlube.com>
Message-ID: <403DB915.2040606@act-net.com>

Hi,

> Ah you are right, my bad. Nonetheless at 3000+ pages, with no Table of 
> Contents, it's of limited utility, IMHO. My opinion is that with this 
> much docs, hypertext is the best way to read it.

Your opinion is noted, Sir ;-)

To be true: I find a 2970 pages document (the one I downloaded from 
sonsofthunder) MUCH MORE helpful than the (to me: useless) docs inside 
the IDE. I am able to press CTRL-F to FIND the term I need on one of my 
monitors, which does not work in all occurances of "Help browser" inside 
the Revolution IDE (most of the time I get a "Bing" error sound when I 
am searching for expressions).

This is a PERSONAL problem, not a generic fault! It is my personal habit 
to read docs in general, mostly before using the application - and the 
way the docs are presented in Revolution does not suit my own workflow. 
That's why I asked for "real documents". I understand those do not exist 
"inside" the product shipped - and I will try to use one of the 
mentioned doc-exporters.

Again: I am only trying to follow your suggestion and try to learn the 
language. It is my fault that I find it difficult by starring at very 
tiny windows with two sentences in it :-))

Marc Albrecht
A.C.T. / level-2
Glinder Str. 2
27432 Ebersdorf
Deutschland
Tel. 04765-830060
Fax. 04765-830064


From chipp at chipp.com  Thu Feb 26 04:19:04 2004
From: chipp at chipp.com (Chipp Walters)
Date: Thu, 26 Feb 2004 03:19:04 -0600
Subject: Important question regarding next major Rev version]
In-Reply-To: <a0602044cbc635d4b658f@[141.89.100.235]>
References: <403DA5FA.4050509@chipp.com>
	<a0602044cbc635d4b658f@[141.89.100.235]>
Message-ID: <403DBA08.2080404@chipp.com>

Robert and Valetia,

I apologize to Valetia for commenting on his first time poster status. I 
  quickly did a sort on my RunRev email list and didn't see his name, 
then checked for "Valetia Lowe" on Google's RR list at:

http://www.google.com/advanced_search?q=site:lists.runrev.com

and didn't get any hits. The term "Richard Gaskin" turns up 4230 hits. 
Robert Brenstein turns up 332. Though, now I searched for only Valetia 
and see he is a contributor to this list. I am sorry for insinuating 
otherwise.


> Chipp, Valetia is hardly a first-time poster if you care to check the 
> archives. He might have come strong but we should understand where he is 
> coming from and be sympathetic rather than trying to prove to him that 
> he is wrong .It seems that every few months someone vents their 
> frustration with Rev on the list. This must mean something. How many do 
> it in private we will never know. 

If you read carefully my Email, I actually tried to answer many of his 
questions, while posing some of my own. Frankly, as a former SC and HC 
user myself, I find RR orders of magnitude more complete. But even then, 
it is up to the programmer to sometimes go the extra mile...in any 
language. Ever since I started programming, I've commissioned externals 
to do the things the programming environment couldn't do. I think that 
is valid advice.

I guess my approach would be to contact Kevin at runrev.com directly and 
try and get some answers to my questions as opposed to lamenting about 
it on this list. I certainly didn't see any real constructive component 
to his post. Perhaps others did.

I still do take issue with Valetia's comment:

 > I see that most people who use rev don't seem to care about the user 
interface of built desktop applications. Why?

and responed accordingly.

-Chipp


From rjb at rz.uni-potsdam.de  Thu Feb 26 04:11:36 2004
From: rjb at rz.uni-potsdam.de (Robert Brenstein)
Date: Thu, 26 Feb 2004 10:11:36 +0100
Subject: disabled buttons
In-Reply-To: <0F8504FF-67CE-11D8-95F7-000A95DA60FA@adelphia.net>
References: <24459EFC-6671-11D8-A8B8-000A95DA60FA@adelphia.net>
 <a0602044bbc6291ae8ef2@[141.89.100.235]>
 <0F8504FF-67CE-11D8-95F7-000A95DA60FA@adelphia.net>
Message-ID: <a0602044ebc6367d3df1a@[141.89.100.235]>

You mean when you click a disabled button, the mouseUp is eaten by 
that button? Hmm, if this is proven, you should enter it as a bug 
into Bugzilla. If mouseUp is not send to the button (as it should not 
for a disabled one), it should be sent to its parent (owner) -- a 
group or a card -- not vanishing.

Robert

>Robert,
>
>my problem is they don't pass mouseUp's either. I need them to.
>
>If disabled i want the mouseUp to go to the item under the disabled button.
>
>Tom
>
>On Feb 25, 2004, at 12:54 PM, Robert Brenstein wrote:
>
>>>Hello,
>>>
>>>Does anyone know what messages a disabled button does receive?
>>>
>>>Macintosh PowerBook G-4 OSX 10.3.1, OS 9.2.2, 1.25 GHz, 512MB RAM, Rev 2.1.2
>>>
>>
>>they should receive no message. they are disabled after all :) 
>>However, they will still respond to send or call.
>>
>>Robert
>>

From frank at backtalk.com  Thu Feb 26 05:13:22 2004
From: frank at backtalk.com (Frank Leahy)
Date: Thu, 26 Feb 2004 10:13:22 +0000
Subject: scale only for eps
In-Reply-To: <20040226052252.3F9B693006F@mail.runrev.com>
Message-ID: <68258C18-6844-11D8-A349-000A9580FCCE@backtalk.com>


On Thursday, February 26, 2004, at 05:22  AM, 
use-revolution-request at lists.runrev.com wrote:

> From: Thomas McGrath III <3mcgrath at adelphia.net>
> Subject: scale only for eps
> To: How to use Revolution <use-revolution at lists.runrev.com>
> Message-ID: <BEA2D83C-67FC-11D8-95F7-000A95DA60FA at adelphia.net>
> Content-Type: text/plain;	charset=WINDOWS-1252;	format=flowed
>
> Does anyone know why eps's are so special they get a scale property????
>
> Why can't graphics or images get this property as well????
>
> It's not fair.
>
> Thanks
>
> Tom
>
Images already do.  Calc the new height and width you want based on the 
scale/percentage, and then change the image's height and width 
properties to match.

-- Frank


From scott at tactilemedia.com  Thu Feb 26 05:54:35 2004
From: scott at tactilemedia.com (Scott Rossi)
Date: Thu, 26 Feb 2004 02:54:35 -0800
Subject: [ANN] Tutti 3D
Message-ID: <BC63106B.A642%scott@tactilemedia.com>

Posted is a stack that demonstrates an interesting aspect of polygon
graphics, and a way these graphics can be used to create 3D shapes and
animations.  Be sure to read the explanation included in the stack.

Tutti 3D is available on RevNet and via our Media Panel.  Enter the
following in your message box:

 go url "http://www.tactilemedia.com/tmpanel.rev"

(OK, the stack name is clearly a misnomer.  The stack does not cover
everything [tutti] 3D.  Instead, use a lazy American accent to pronounce
'tutti' and you wind up with 'too-dee', as in 2D.  2D - 3D. Get it?...)

Regards,

Scott Rossi
Creative Director
Tactile Media, Development & Design
-----
E: scott at tactilemedia.com
W: http://www.tactilemedia.com


From tuviah at runrev.com  Thu Feb 26 06:53:34 2004
From: tuviah at runrev.com (tuviah snyder)
Date: Thu, 26 Feb 2004 06:53:34 -0500
Subject: Important question regarding next major Rev version
References: <20040226091212.EC58293006B@mail.runrev.com>
Message-ID: <008501c3fc5f$2a2c60f0$1602a8c0@USER>

>  >- real list fields with the option for real column headers that can be
>  >dragged around and with built-in column sorting like real columns do.
>  >You know what I'm talking about. "Normal" development environments
>  >allow you to drag these things right into your project, no fuss.
Agreed.

> Why the emulation? Well, in my case, I use ButtonGadget to build apps
> which I can move from platform to platform with their own native
> interface. It makes things much easier for me to port. Lots of other
> cross platform programs do the same (Newtek Lightwave and graphics
> programs already create their own GUI's, as does Trolltech QT and some
> flavors of Java)
Emulation to a certain extent allows up to support all the standard control
messages on all platforms, and the compositing system which was only
recently adopted by OSX without spending months working out the bugs in each
platform specific control. We use the appearence manager on OSX, XP theme
api on Windows, and will continue to add additional support for native look
and feel. Mozilla and TrollTech follow the same approach. The internal theme
api was recently rewritten from the ground up and everything should look
more native in the next release.

>Course, IMHO, it doesn't bother me too much. I seem to be
> able to design and release products with little complaint regarding the
> interface look and feel from my users.
It's a feature certain controls may not be supported on one platform, better
to have it available and look wrong then not work at all or behave
differently. Of course these days with all OSs copying each other it is a
non issue, but back in the early 1990s when the engine was being
designed..it was very sensible to do it this way. Of course things have
changed, and we may need to change as well...

Tuviah


From 3mcgrath at adelphia.net  Thu Feb 26 08:32:27 2004
From: 3mcgrath at adelphia.net (Thomas McGrath III)
Date: Thu, 26 Feb 2004 08:32:27 -0500
Subject: disabled buttons
In-Reply-To: <BC62E09F.52C7%pixelbird@interisland.net>
References: <BC62E09F.52C7%pixelbird@interisland.net>
Message-ID: <385275A2-6860-11D8-95F7-000A95DA60FA@adelphia.net>

Ken yeah that's what I did last time in SC. So I will do it again.

But for this project a disabled button does not do what a non-disabled 
button would do BUT if a user hits a disabled button it 'resets' the 
system of which buttons are available. I should use the term available 
and non-available (since disabled in rev means dead) whereas my 
non-available buttons still have life in them ie. they reset the 
system.

You see it is the nature of sequenced buttons that on a third hit of a 
sequence you decided to back out of the sequence you can just hit a 
non-available button to reset the system to be ready for a first hit 
again.

Since I am combining two buttons in a group to get the look and feel I 
need I am thinking of adding a third invisible image to the group that 
when the icon is unavailable the image will trap the message.

Did you look at my buttons example?
put this in the message box:

go URL "http://users.adelphia.net/~3mcgrath/Buttons.rev"

This shows the button without a disabled state/ unavailable state. Each 
will be  built via script and would show different icons.

Thanks
Tom

On Feb 26, 2004, at 2:30 AM, Ken Norris wrote:

> I'm having difficulty making any sense of why a user would expect a 
> disabled
> button to do anything, but you could put a mouseUp handler in the card
> instead of the button and spec it thus:

Thomas J. McGrath III
SCS
1000 Killarney Dr.
Pittsburgh, PA 15234
412-885-8541


From wouter.abraham at pi.be  Thu Feb 26 08:40:15 2004
From: wouter.abraham at pi.be (Wouter)
Date: Thu, 26 Feb 2004 14:40:15 +0100
Subject: custom buttons
In-Reply-To: <20040226052252.76B93930071@mail.runrev.com>
References: <20040226052252.76B93930071@mail.runrev.com>
Message-ID: <4F47C4B4-6861-11D8-946F-003065CC999E@pi.be>


On 26 Feb 2004, at 06:22, use-revolution-request at lists.runrev.com wrote:

> Message: 7
> Date: Wed, 25 Feb 2004 22:16:21 -0500
> From: Thomas McGrath III <3mcgrath at adelphia.net>
> Subject: Re: custom buttons
> To: How to use Revolution <use-revolution at lists.runrev.com>
> Message-ID: <26F085DE-680A-11D8-95F7-000A95DA60FA at adelphia.net>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed
>
> My Bad,,,,,,
>
> I didn't include the images in that file.
>
> this one has it I swear....
>
> go URL "http://users.adelphia.net/~3mcgrath/Buttons.rev"
>
>
> Tom


Hi Tom,

Another possible buttonscript.

local lOldLoc   ### or make custom properties upPos and downPos
on mousedown
     put the loc of me into lOldLoc
     checkformousewithin
end mousedown

on checkformousewithin
   if the mouseloc is within the rect of btn "backbutton" then
       if the mouse is down then
         set the icon of btn "backbutton" to 1013  ### your buttondown 
img
         set the loc of me to (item 1 of lOldLoc + 5,item 2 of lOldLoc + 
5)
         send "checkformousewithin" to me in 20 millisecs
       else
         set the icon of btn "backbutton" to 1014  ### your buttonup img
         set the loc of me to  lOldLoc
       end if
     else
       if the mouse is down then
         set the icon of btn "backbutton" to 1014
         set the loc of me to  lOldLoc
         send "checkformousewithin" to me in 20 millisecs
       end if
     end if
end checkformousewithin

on mouseup
   answer "Yes"
end mouseup


Greetings,
WA


From 3mcgrath at adelphia.net  Thu Feb 26 08:57:50 2004
From: 3mcgrath at adelphia.net (Thomas McGrath III)
Date: Thu, 26 Feb 2004 08:57:50 -0500
Subject: Important question regarding next major Rev version
In-Reply-To: <C777E384-6830-11D8-8F64-000393C4760A@mindlube.com>
References: <14533917.1077777305238.JavaMail.valetia@mac.com>
	<C777E384-6830-11D8-8F64-000393C4760A@mindlube.com>
Message-ID: <C3E0CA64-6863-11D8-95F7-000A95DA60FA@adelphia.net>

Alex,
I thought the scroll bars were all native???

FWIW

tom

On Feb 26, 2004, at 2:52 AM, Alex Rice wrote:

>
> On Feb 25, 2004, at 11:35 PM, Valetia Lowe wrote:
>
>> Will the upcoming release of rev take care of *ALL* of these 
>> issues???????? Really??? On all platforms including Windows??
>
> Those who can respond in detail to what's in the next release are 
> under non-disclosure agreement.
>
> But I sympathize and also wish for more "roadmap" types of 
> announcements from Runrev.
>
> Something that you should be aware though is that except for Mac OS X 
> "appearance manager", all the other look & feels, including Windows 
> and Linux, are all *emulated*. That means native controls are *not 
> being used*.
>
> Emulated controls are actually quite common among cross-platform GUI 
> toolkits.
>
> So you should not be expecting native controls everywhere- that is 
> simply not how Rev works, in past and present releases at least.
>
> That is my understanding at least, and would be glad to be corrected 
> about the native vs. emulated controls specifics in Runrev.
>
> Hope this helps,
>
> --
> Alex Rice | Mindlube Software | http://mindlube.com
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>
>

Thomas J. McGrath III
SCS
1000 Killarney Dr.
Pittsburgh, PA 15234
412-885-8541


From 3mcgrath at adelphia.net  Thu Feb 26 09:03:38 2004
From: 3mcgrath at adelphia.net (Thomas McGrath III)
Date: Thu, 26 Feb 2004 09:03:38 -0500
Subject: scale only for eps
In-Reply-To: <68258C18-6844-11D8-A349-000A9580FCCE@backtalk.com>
References: <68258C18-6844-11D8-A349-000A9580FCCE@backtalk.com>
Message-ID: <93714D8B-6864-11D8-95F7-000A95DA60FA@adelphia.net>

AAWWW

That's not the same!

I would like to just do:

  scale image ID 1 50
or
scale image ID 1 to 50

But now I see I could build that as a function.

Thank you Frank,

Tom - whining just a little bit


On Feb 26, 2004, at 5:13 AM, Frank Leahy wrote:

>
> On Thursday, February 26, 2004, at 05:22  AM, 
> use-revolution-request at lists.runrev.com wrote:
>
>> From: Thomas McGrath III <3mcgrath at adelphia.net>
>> Subject: scale only for eps
>> To: How to use Revolution <use-revolution at lists.runrev.com>
>> Message-ID: <BEA2D83C-67FC-11D8-95F7-000A95DA60FA at adelphia.net>
>> Content-Type: text/plain;	charset=WINDOWS-1252;	format=flowed
>>
>> Does anyone know why eps's are so special they get a scale 
>> property????
>>
>> Why can't graphics or images get this property as well????
>>
>> It's not fair.
>>
>> Thanks
>>
>> Tom
>>
> Images already do.  Calc the new height and width you want based on 
> the scale/percentage, and then change the image's height and width 
> properties to match.
>
> -- Frank
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>
>

Thomas J. McGrath III
SCS
1000 Killarney Dr.
Pittsburgh, PA 15234
412-885-8541


From 3mcgrath at adelphia.net  Thu Feb 26 09:09:10 2004
From: 3mcgrath at adelphia.net (Thomas McGrath III)
Date: Thu, 26 Feb 2004 09:09:10 -0500
Subject: [ANN] Tutti 3D
In-Reply-To: <BC63106B.A642%scott@tactilemedia.com>
References: <BC63106B.A642%scott@tactilemedia.com>
Message-ID: <59760F74-6865-11D8-95F7-000A95DA60FA@adelphia.net>

I stand in AWE......


Nice job....

Tom


On Feb 26, 2004, at 5:54 AM, Scott Rossi wrote:

>  go url "http://www.tactilemedia.com/tmpanel.rev"
>

Thomas J. McGrath III
SCS
1000 Killarney Dr.
Pittsburgh, PA 15234
412-885-8541


From 3mcgrath at adelphia.net  Thu Feb 26 09:14:35 2004
From: 3mcgrath at adelphia.net (Thomas McGrath III)
Date: Thu, 26 Feb 2004 09:14:35 -0500
Subject: custom buttons
In-Reply-To: <4F47C4B4-6861-11D8-946F-003065CC999E@pi.be>
References: <20040226052252.76B93930071@mail.runrev.com>
	<4F47C4B4-6861-11D8-946F-003065CC999E@pi.be>
Message-ID: <1AD66D0C-6866-11D8-95F7-000A95DA60FA@adelphia.net>

W,

thanks

Tom

On Feb 26, 2004, at 8:40 AM, Wouter wrote:

>
> On 26 Feb 2004, at 06:22, use-revolution-request at lists.runrev.com 
> wrote:
>
>> Message: 7
>> Date: Wed, 25 Feb 2004 22:16:21 -0500
>> From: Thomas McGrath III <3mcgrath at adelphia.net>
>> Subject: Re: custom buttons
>> To: How to use Revolution <use-revolution at lists.runrev.com>
>> Message-ID: <26F085DE-680A-11D8-95F7-000A95DA60FA at adelphia.net>
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed
>>
>> My Bad,,,,,,
>>
>> I didn't include the images in that file.
>>
>> this one has it I swear....
>>
>> go URL "http://users.adelphia.net/~3mcgrath/Buttons.rev"
>>
>>
>> Tom
>
>
> Hi Tom,
>
> Another possible buttonscript.
>
> local lOldLoc   ### or make custom properties upPos and downPos
> on mousedown
>     put the loc of me into lOldLoc
>     checkformousewithin
> end mousedown
>
> on checkformousewithin
>   if the mouseloc is within the rect of btn "backbutton" then
>       if the mouse is down then
>         set the icon of btn "backbutton" to 1013  ### your buttondown 
> img
>         set the loc of me to (item 1 of lOldLoc + 5,item 2 of lOldLoc 
> + 5)
>         send "checkformousewithin" to me in 20 millisecs
>       else
>         set the icon of btn "backbutton" to 1014  ### your buttonup img
>         set the loc of me to  lOldLoc
>       end if
>     else
>       if the mouse is down then
>         set the icon of btn "backbutton" to 1014
>         set the loc of me to  lOldLoc
>         send "checkformousewithin" to me in 20 millisecs
>       end if
>     end if
> end checkformousewithin
>
> on mouseup
>   answer "Yes"
> end mouseup
>
>
> Greetings,
> WA
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>
>

Thomas J. McGrath III
SCS
1000 Killarney Dr.
Pittsburgh, PA 15234
412-885-8541


From valetia at mac.com  Thu Feb 26 09:49:55 2004
From: valetia at mac.com (valetia @mac.com)
Date: Thu, 26 Feb 2004 06:49:55 -0800
Subject: Important question regarding next major Rev version
Message-ID: <2532037.1077806995511.JavaMail.valetia@mac.com>

Thanks all for your comments. The people at RR have gotten in touch with us and we have provided them with a concise list of specifics that need to be worked on...

Apple has very nicely summed up the benefits of having apps look and feel like other apps, at the following URL:

http://developer.apple.com/documentation/LegacyTechnologies/Conceptual/AquaHIGuidelines/AHGIntro/chapter_1_section_2.html

In particular, have a look at these points (extracted from that page):

- users will learn your application faster if the interface looks and behaves like applications they?re already familiar with

- users will accomplish their tasks quickly, because well-designed applications don?t get in the user?s way

- your application will have the same modern, elegant appearance as other Mac OS X applications

- ** media reviews of your product will be more positive; reviewers easily target software that doesn?t look or behave the way ?true? Macintosh applications do



Alex Rice <alex at mindlube.com> wrote:

> Those who can respond in detail to what's in the next release are under 
> non-disclosure agreement.
> 
> But I sympathize and also wish for more "roadmap" types of 
> announcements from Runrev.

Yes - these are sorely needed. I can see where you'd need an NDA if you're going to be rolling out features that most competitors don't yet have, but for basic necessities like native look and feel support for all controls on all platforms, there really isn't a need to put them under an NDA...



Chipp Walters <chipp at chipp.com> wrote:

> Ever since I started programming, I've commissioned externals 
> to do the things the programming environment couldn't do. I think that 
> is valid advice.

While that might be useful for things like browser plug-ins, I don't think it's efficient to commission externals for basic look and feel components...simple things like menu bars on windows don't look native at all, combo boxes look fake, etc. These should be built right into Rev, because Rev provides these objects for use.

> In many cases, I want the power and capability to 
> edit the function of the control...something you can't do in VB as it's 
> an ActiveX component. So, I roll my own, just like the VB guys do. In 
> fact there's a cottage industry built up around roll-your-own ActiveX 
> controls in VB. You can get different lists, trees, buttons, tabs, 
> toolbars -- all for a price. You can do the same in RunRev. I wrote a 
> XMLtree control one time, and use it in about 8 different places.

Yes but these are more complicated controls - I'm talking about simple controls like menu bars and dialog boxes (which look like they're just "stacks in disguise", which they probably are)...

Look at the size of that arrow on a rev combo box on OS X, and compare it to the native one. And it looks plain ugly on Windows XP compared to the real one...

I understand 100% what you're saying about using externals for things that don't come built in but you know, it's just not efficient to have to implement them just to show native controls...


> Perhaps if you post a copy of your
> stacks online, some of us may be able to help you make them look more
> professional?

That just proves my point. You need to "hack" stuff to make your apps look normal with rev! That's not what we should be spending time on, especially with a Rapid Application Development tool...we should be spending time on the actual code itself...


> Geez, now it sounds like you are just whining. <snip>
> Why would you posit such a ludicrous statement? I know that I care about 
> interface issues *very* much. Frankly, now you're starting to sound like 
> a Marketing person from a competing company.

Well, here's a comment that shows how I'm obviously not a marketing person from [insert name here] - their programming language sucks. Transcript simply rocks!!!

Unfortunately, that competing company, [insert name here], has native widgets built in for all 3 platforms. Compiled apps look *just like* apps built using vb on Windows or project builder on the Mac.

Apparently, and this doesn't seem obvious to some, one of the main reasons so many people still choose [insert name here], and are calling RR a toy or multimedia tool, is the clunkiness of the look and feel of RR apps.

You can't change the programming language easily without affecting existing developers, but you can certainly change the way it handles look and feel objects while keeping the same programming language. That's where RR has the advantage, if they want to utilize that - and that's what needs to be pointed out.

Val




From jimlyons at earthlink.net  Thu Feb 26 10:16:16 2004
From: jimlyons at earthlink.net (Jim Lyons)
Date: Thu, 26 Feb 2004 10:16:16 -0500
Subject: [ANN] Tutti 3D
Message-ID: <B903BA68-686E-11D8-A6EB-000A95893982@earthlink.net>

Scott,
Wowie zowie! My socks were knocked all the way across the room!

Thanks to everyone who contributed to this. I will learn a lot from it.

Jim Lyons

Scott Rossi wrote:
> Tutti 3D is available on RevNet and via our Media Panel.  Enter the
> following in your message box:
>
>  go url "http://www.tactilemedia.com/tmpanel.rev"


From mpetrides at earthlink.net  Thu Feb 26 10:26:32 2004
From: mpetrides at earthlink.net (Marian Petrides)
Date: Thu, 26 Feb 2004 10:26:32 -0500
Subject: [ANN] Tutti 3D
In-Reply-To: <B903BA68-686E-11D8-A6EB-000A95893982@earthlink.net>
References: <B903BA68-686E-11D8-A6EB-000A95893982@earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <282A6352-6870-11D8-B3B8-000A959D005E@earthlink.net>

Way cool. Thanks.

BTW, in the initial media viewer window the text describing Bouncer was 
garbled starting at:  To access the player, simply enter either of the 
fol  ....garbled text follows--looked like ASCII representation of 
control characters, etc.  kinda like what you get if you try to open an 
executable with a text reader.

I was, however, able to run Bouncer by clicking on the link at the top 
of the screen.  Was there more to see as well?  Why would the text 
appear garbled.  FWIW, I am on a Mac PB 17 running OS X 10.3.2 and Rev 
2.1.2.

Marian

>
>> Tutti 3D is available on RevNet and via our Media Panel.  Enter the
>> following in your message box:
>>
>>  go url "http://www.tactilemedia.com/tmpanel.rev"
>


From jhurley at infostations.com  Thu Feb 26 10:38:33 2004
From: jhurley at infostations.com (Jim Hurley)
Date: Thu, 26 Feb 2004 07:38:33 -0800
Subject: use-revolution Digest, Vol 5, Issue 224
In-Reply-To: <20040226141459.C2699930076@mail.runrev.com>
References: <20040226141459.C2699930076@mail.runrev.com>
Message-ID: <a05100300bc63be542e93@[66.81.129.52]>

>
>Message: 4
>Date: Thu, 26 Feb 2004 02:54:35 -0800
>From: Scott Rossi <scott at tactilemedia.com>
>Subject: [ANN] Tutti 3D
>To: How to use Revolution <use-revolution at lists.runrev.com>
>Message-ID: <BC63106B.A642%scott at tactilemedia.com>
>Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
>
>Posted is a stack that demonstrates an interesting aspect of polygon
>graphics, and a way these graphics can be used to create 3D shapes and
>animations.  Be sure to read the explanation included in the stack.
>
>Tutti 3D is available on RevNet and via our Media Panel.  Enter the
>following in your message box:
>
>  go url "http://www.tactilemedia.com/tmpanel.rev"
>
>(OK, the stack name is clearly a misnomer.  The stack does not cover
>everything [tutti] 3D.  Instead, use a lazy American accent to pronounce
>'tutti' and you wind up with 'too-dee', as in 2D.  2D - 3D. Get it?...)
>
>Regards,
>
>Scott Rossi
>Creative Director
>Tactile Media, Development & Design
>-----
>E: scott at tactilemedia.com
>W: http://www.tactilemedia.com

Scott,

Dazzling! Imaginative! Great use of multiple technologies.

Putting the data into custom properties, rather than attempting to 
create the data natively on the fly, is certainly a great way to 
achieve speedy graphics. Who would have thought RunRev could produce 
such effects?

Congratulations!

Jim

P.S.

I don't know if this helps much, but you might be able to speed up 
the point rotation with the following modification. You  don't have 
to cycle through the point list twice, i.e. "repeat for each" twice.

On rotatePoly theGraphic, thePivot, theAngle
   put the points of graphic theGraphic into tPoints

   put item 1 of thePivot into xPivot
   put item 2 of thePivot into yPivot

   put empty into newPointList

   put sin(theAngle* pi/180) into S
   put cos(theAngle * pi/180) into C

   --Set points relative to pivot
    
   repeat for each line tLine in tPoints
     put (item 1 of tLine)- xPivot into theX
     put (item 2 of tLine)- yPivot into theY
     put round(C*theX+ S*theY + xPivot)& comma after rotPtlist
     put round(-S*theX + C*theY+  yPivot)after rotPtlist
     put return after rotPtList
   end repeat

   set the points of graphic theGraphic to rotPtlist

end rotatePoly

From sonesond1 at southernct.edu  Thu Feb 26 11:29:47 2004
From: sonesond1 at southernct.edu (Dan Soneson)
Date: Thu, 26 Feb 2004 11:29:47 -0500
Subject: Web App issues with NetZero
Message-ID: <FE550613-6878-11D8-A4D0-000A959A7C0C@southernct.edu>

I am experiencing something rather unexpected in a  web app that I am 
developing for my students. I have given them a splash screen 
application with just the engine, a button with a backscript, and a 
button that calls a stack down from the web. We?ll call this stack 
stack 1. The subsequent stack (stack 2) is simply a login screen, with 
fields for the student?s name and a button that downloads and opens 
another stack (stack 3) from the web. This third stack also has a set 
of links that download and open further independent stacks (stacks 4, 
5, 6?) as well.

This arrangement has been working fine for my students until one of my 
students switched her ISP from AOL to NetZero. When she now uses my 
splashscreen app, the button that accesses the login screen (stack 2) 
from the web seems to open a stack that has been cached somewhere. The 
button on stack 2 apparently can?t find stack 3, so when we click this 
button the application shuts down.

It is apparent that the stack 2 which her machine accesses is cached 
somewhere, because when I add a button to stack 2 and save it on the 
web, the old stack 2 is still called up on her machine. The problem 
seems to be connected with NetZero, since when we run her machine 
through an ethernet connection on our network, everything works just 
fine. But when we go through the modem by way of NetZero, the old stack 
2 appears and apparently cannot find stack 3 (standard ?go URL ? 
command) so the program shuts down.

Has anyone had experience with this problem and if so, do you know of a 
workaround? Her machine is a Dell Inspiron laptop running Windows XP. I 
develop on a Macintosh, but none of the other students seem to have 
this problem, although they are all running various versions of 
Windows. I have fiddled around with the Internet control panel on her 
machine, clearing the cache and the stored list of websites visited, 
but still the problem persists.

TIA
Dan


From sonesond1 at southernct.edu  Thu Feb 26 11:42:26 2004
From: sonesond1 at southernct.edu (Dan Soneson)
Date: Thu, 26 Feb 2004 11:42:26 -0500
Subject: Determining exact location within a field
Message-ID: <C2A3642C-687A-11D8-A4D0-000A959A7C0C@southernct.edu>

Does anyone know of a way to find the location of a specific spot 
within a text field? I am interested in developing a module that will 
allow me to construct a fill-in-the-blank activity. My thought is to 
construct a text in a field and mark the words that I want to replace 
in some way (precede them with a special character). Then I want to 
construct a button with a script that finds the words with this 
character in the text and replaces them with a space. Over this space I 
want to create a field into which users can enter the missing word. It 
would be nice to automate this process and to be able to know exactly 
where to place the new field, how large to make it, etc. But I cannot 
figure out the placement issue.

Any suggestions appreciated.

Dan


From kray at sonsothunder.com  Thu Feb 26 12:06:32 2004
From: kray at sonsothunder.com (Ken Ray)
Date: Thu, 26 Feb 2004 11:06:32 -0600
Subject: [ANN] Tutti 3D
In-Reply-To: <BC63106B.A642%scott@tactilemedia.com>
Message-ID: <032f01c3fc8a$e5503070$6601a8c0@LightningFlash>

Scott, you continue to amaze me...

:-)

Ken Ray
Sons of Thunder Software
Email: kray at sonsothunder.com
Web Site: http://www.sonsothunder.com/ 

> -----Original Message-----
> From: use-revolution-bounces at lists.runrev.com 
> [mailto:use-revolution-bounces at lists.runrev.com] On Behalf Of 
> Scott Rossi
> Sent: Thursday, February 26, 2004 4:55 AM
> To: How to use Revolution
> Subject: [ANN] Tutti 3D
> 
> 
> Posted is a stack that demonstrates an interesting aspect of 
> polygon graphics, and a way these graphics can be used to 
> create 3D shapes and animations.  Be sure to read the 
> explanation included in the stack.
> 
> Tutti 3D is available on RevNet and via our Media Panel.  
> Enter the following in your message box:
> 
>  go url "http://www.tactilemedia.com/tmpanel.rev"
> 
> (OK, the stack name is clearly a misnomer.  The stack does 
> not cover everything [tutti] 3D.  Instead, use a lazy 
> American accent to pronounce 'tutti' and you wind up with 
> 'too-dee', as in 2D.  2D - 3D. Get it?...)
> 
> Regards,
> 
> Scott Rossi
> Creative Director
> Tactile Media, Development & Design
> -----
> E: scott at tactilemedia.com
> W: http://www.tactilemedia.com
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com 
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-> revolution
> 



From rcozens at pon.net  Thu Feb 26 11:12:34 2004
From: rcozens at pon.net (Rob Cozens)
Date: Thu, 26 Feb 2004 09:12:34 -0700
Subject: Serious applications
Message-ID: <a05100304bc63c9249868@[66.52.165.71]>

Hi Again, Jose.

>>
If you would like to distribute your application in one version 
[except for the app startup/engine] that users can translate into 
other languages, the tools and various techniques are available and 
demonstrated in Revolution/Transcript.
<<

I may have set your sights a little high.  AFAIK, any version of SQL 
behind a Revolution front end will require installation of different 
extensions or DLLs on different platforms.

In case you missed the announcement, let me point out that you have 
an opportunity to discuss all facets of the Rev<>SQL options 
face-to-face with Jan Schenkel, one of the leading authorities in 
this area, by attending the upcoming European Rev Conference in 
Malta.  Check recent List archives, or contact <sims at ezpzapps.com> 
for details.

Wish I could go!   :{(

Rob Cozens
CCW, Serendipity Software Company
http://www.oenolog.net/who.htm

"And I, which was two fooles, do so grow three;
Who are a little wise, the best fooles bee."

from "The Triple Foole" by John Donne (1572-1631)

From kray at sonsothunder.com  Thu Feb 26 12:17:10 2004
From: kray at sonsothunder.com (Ken Ray)
Date: Thu, 26 Feb 2004 11:17:10 -0600
Subject: Determining exact location within a field
In-Reply-To: <C2A3642C-687A-11D8-A4D0-000A959A7C0C@southernct.edu>
Message-ID: <033201c3fc8c$61d7a7d0$6601a8c0@LightningFlash>

Dan,

Check into the selectedLoc function. This would allow you to (under
lockScreen) select the chunk of text that is your placeholder, then use
the selectedLoc() to determine where the topLeft corner of the selection
is, and then use that to draw your entry field.

HTH,

Ken Ray
Sons of Thunder Software
Email: kray at sonsothunder.com
Web Site: http://www.sonsothunder.com/ 

> -----Original Message-----
> From: use-revolution-bounces at lists.runrev.com 
> [mailto:use-revolution-bounces at lists.runrev.com] On Behalf Of 
> Dan Soneson
> Sent: Thursday, February 26, 2004 10:42 AM
> To: use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> Subject: Determining exact location within a field
> 
> 
> Does anyone know of a way to find the location of a specific spot 
> within a text field? I am interested in developing a module that will 
> allow me to construct a fill-in-the-blank activity. My thought is to 
> construct a text in a field and mark the words that I want to replace 
> in some way (precede them with a special character). Then I want to 
> construct a button with a script that finds the words with this 
> character in the text and replaces them with a space. Over 
> this space I 
> want to create a field into which users can enter the missing 
> word. It 
> would be nice to automate this process and to be able to know exactly 
> where to place the new field, how large to make it, etc. But I cannot 
> figure out the placement issue.
> 
> Any suggestions appreciated.
> 
> Dan
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com 
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-> revolution
> 



From kray at sonsothunder.com  Thu Feb 26 12:25:50 2004
From: kray at sonsothunder.com (Ken Ray)
Date: Thu, 26 Feb 2004 11:25:50 -0600
Subject: disabled buttons
In-Reply-To: <385275A2-6860-11D8-95F7-000A95DA60FA@adelphia.net>
Message-ID: <033401c3fc8d$97deb890$6601a8c0@LightningFlash>

Tom,

One approach might be to *use* the disabledIcon as a storage option, but
not *set* the button to be disabled (so a non-available button would use
the disabledIcon, but would still be able to be clicked). Use a custom
property to hold the "normal" icon so you can re-establish it. Something
like this:

  -- Assumes that each button contains a custom property called
  -- "uAvailIcon" that holds the ID number of the image that is to 
  -- be displayed for available buttons.

  on MakeUnavailable pBtnDescriptor
    set the icon of pBtnDescriptor to (the disabledIcon of
pBtnDescriptor)
  end MakeUnavailable

  on MakeAvailable pBtnDescriptor
    set the icon of pBtnDescriptor to (the uAvailIcon of pBtnDescriptor)
  end MakeUnavailable

  on mouseUp
    if the icon of me = the disabledIcon of me then
      -- run "clicked on unavailable button" code
    else
      -- run "clicked on available button" code
    end if
  end mouseUp

Now if you need to have a hilite state for both available and
unavailable buttons, you could swap out the hiliteIcon of the button the
same way...

Just a thought,

Ken Ray
Sons of Thunder Software
Email: kray at sonsothunder.com
Web Site: http://www.sonsothunder.com/ 


> -----Original Message-----
> From: use-revolution-bounces at lists.runrev.com 
> [mailto:use-revolution-bounces at lists.runrev.com] On Behalf Of 
> Thomas McGrath III
> Sent: Thursday, February 26, 2004 7:32 AM
> To: How to use Revolution
> Subject: Re: disabled buttons
> 
> 
> Ken yeah that's what I did last time in SC. So I will do it again.
> 
> But for this project a disabled button does not do what a 
> non-disabled 
> button would do BUT if a user hits a disabled button it 'resets' the 
> system of which buttons are available. I should use the term 
> available 
> and non-available (since disabled in rev means dead) whereas my 
> non-available buttons still have life in them ie. they reset the 
> system.
> 
> You see it is the nature of sequenced buttons that on a third 
> hit of a 
> sequence you decided to back out of the sequence you can just hit a 
> non-available button to reset the system to be ready for a first hit 
> again.
> 
> Since I am combining two buttons in a group to get the look 
> and feel I 
> need I am thinking of adding a third invisible image to the 
> group that 
> when the icon is unavailable the image will trap the message.
> 
> Did you look at my buttons example?
> put this in the message box:
> 
> go URL "http://users.adelphia.net/~3mcgrath/Buttons.rev"
> 
> This shows the button without a disabled state/ unavailable 
> state. Each 
> will be  built via script and would show different icons.
> 
> Thanks
> Tom
> 
> On Feb 26, 2004, at 2:30 AM, Ken Norris wrote:
> 
> > I'm having difficulty making any sense of why a user would expect a
> > disabled
> > button to do anything, but you could put a mouseUp handler 
> in the card
> > instead of the button and spec it thus:
> 
> Thomas J. McGrath III
> SCS
> 1000 Killarney Dr.
> Pittsburgh, PA 15234
> 412-885-8541
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com 
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-> revolution
> 



From scott at tactilemedia.com  Thu Feb 26 12:51:28 2004
From: scott at tactilemedia.com (Scott Rossi)
Date: Thu, 26 Feb 2004 09:51:28 -0800
Subject: Tutti 3D
In-Reply-To: <a05100300bc63be542e93@[66.81.129.52]>
Message-ID: <BC637220.A677%scott@tactilemedia.com>

On 2/26/04 7:38 AM, "Jim Hurley" <jhurley at infostations.com> wrote:

> I don't know if this helps much, but you might be able to speed up
> the point rotation with the following modification. You  don't have
> to cycle through the point list twice, i.e. "repeat for each" twice.

I tried this -- the change didn't seem to make a difference but to be fair,
several of the ring frames contain around 1500 points.  That may be too much
to transform on the fly.

Anyway, the script is more concise, which is great.  I'll update the demo
with it.  Thank you.

Regards,

Scott Rossi
Creative Director
Tactile Media, Development & Design
-----
E: scott at tactilemedia.com
W: http://www.tactilemedia.com


From sbrown3 at unl.edu  Thu Feb 26 13:05:02 2004
From: sbrown3 at unl.edu (Sydney Brown)
Date: Thu, 26 Feb 2004 12:05:02 -0600
Subject: Frustration with OSX 10.3, WebStar 5, and Apple Events
Message-ID: <4C42AB88-6886-11D8-8DC5-003065C81E14@unl.edu>

hi,

I would very much like to speak to someone who is using something
similar to the following set-up to SUCCESSFULLY employ runtime
revolution as a cgi.

os x 10.3
WebStar 5
Runtime Revolution 2.1.2

The objective is to use the apple event paradigm to engage runtime
directly as opposed to using the CGI engine.

We've tried a solution that apparently works for MacOS 9, but this has
not yielded positive results.

TIA,
sydney
_______________________________
   Sydney Brown
     University of Nebraska - Lincoln
     email:  sbrown3 at unl.edu
     phone:  402.472.2552
     im: sydney at jabber.org
     office: Henzlik 123a


From chipp at chipp.com  Thu Feb 26 13:29:46 2004
From: chipp at chipp.com (Chipp Walters)
Date: Thu, 26 Feb 2004 12:29:46 -0600
Subject: Web App issues with NetZero
In-Reply-To: <FE550613-6878-11D8-A4D0-000A959A7C0C@southernct.edu>
References: <FE550613-6878-11D8-A4D0-000A959A7C0C@southernct.edu>
Message-ID: <403E3B1A.1040000@chipp.com>

Hi Dan,

My guess is that Web Zero is running a proxy service which caches 
content. A fix is to set your server to always send fresh content. It's 
a setting in your server. What server are you using?

You also might be able to just send a "No-cache" request in your headers 
as well, which forces the proxy server to get fresh content. Though this 
doesn't always work on all proxy servers.

-Chipp

Dan Soneson wrote:

> I am experiencing something rather unexpected in a  web app that I am 
> developing for my students. I have given them a splash screen 
> application with just the engine, a button with a backscript, and a 
> button that calls a stack down from the web. We?ll call this stack stack 
> 1. The subsequent stack (stack 2) is simply a login screen, with fields 
> for the student?s name and a button that downloads and opens another 
> stack (stack 3) from the web. This third stack also has a set of links 
> that download and open further independent stacks (stacks 4, 5, 6?) as 
> well.
> 
> This arrangement has been working fine for my students until one of my 
> students switched her ISP from AOL to NetZero. When she now uses my 
> splashscreen app, the button that accesses the login screen (stack 2) 
> from the web seems to open a stack that has been cached somewhere. The 
> button on stack 2 apparently can?t find stack 3, so when we click this 
> button the application shuts down.
> 
> It is apparent that the stack 2 which her machine accesses is cached 
> somewhere, because when I add a button to stack 2 and save it on the 
> web, the old stack 2 is still called up on her machine. The problem 
> seems to be connected with NetZero, since when we run her machine 
> through an ethernet connection on our network, everything works just 
> fine. But when we go through the modem by way of NetZero, the old stack 
> 2 appears and apparently cannot find stack 3 (standard ?go URL ? 
> command) so the program shuts down.
> 
> Has anyone had experience with this problem and if so, do you know of a 
> workaround? Her machine is a Dell Inspiron laptop running Windows XP. I 
> develop on a Macintosh, but none of the other students seem to have this 
> problem, although they are all running various versions of Windows. I 
> have fiddled around with the Internet control panel on her machine, 
> clearing the cache and the stored list of websites visited, but still 
> the problem persists.
> 
> TIA
> Dan
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
> 


From sonesond1 at southernct.edu  Thu Feb 26 14:12:04 2004
From: sonesond1 at southernct.edu (Dan Soneson)
Date: Thu, 26 Feb 2004 14:12:04 -0500
Subject: No subject
Message-ID: <AA08E896-688F-11D8-A4D0-000A959A7C0C@southernct.edu>

> Check into the selectedLoc function. This would allow you to (under
> lockScreen) select the chunk of text that is your placeholder, then use
> the selectedLoc() to determine where the topLeft corner of the 
> selection
> is, and then use that to draw your entry field.
>
> HTH,
>
> Ken Ray

Thanks, Ken. That's perfect! I simply use a unique initial character 
for each word and another unique end character. I then use the offset 
function to identify and select each character in turn, get the x,y 
coordinates, do a bit of recalculation and then create a field that 
begins at the initial  character and ends after the ending character. I 
don't even have to delete this word, just cover it with the new field. 
It works and looks terrific.

Thanks again.

Dan


From sonesond1 at southernct.edu  Thu Feb 26 14:14:07 2004
From: sonesond1 at southernct.edu (Dan Soneson)
Date: Thu, 26 Feb 2004 14:14:07 -0500
Subject: Determining exact location within a field
Message-ID: <F352E054-688F-11D8-A4D0-000A959A7C0C@southernct.edu>

  I'm sorry, I did it again without the subject line. I will try to be 
more diligent.
Anyone have any suggestions on how to automatically include a subject 
line when responding from the digest version?

Dan

> Check into the selectedLoc function. This would allow you to (under
> lockScreen) select the chunk of text that is your placeholder, then use
> the selectedLoc() to determine where the topLeft corner of the 
> selection
> is, and then use that to draw your entry field.
>
> HTH,
>
> Ken Ray

Thanks, Ken. That's perfect! I simply use a unique initial character 
for each word and another unique end character. I then use the offset 
function to identify and select each character in turn, get the x,y 
coordinates, do a bit of recalculation and then create a field that 
begins at the initial  character and ends after the ending character. I 
don't even have to delete this word, just cover it with the new field. 
It works and looks terrific.

Thanks again.

Dan


From jacque at hyperactivesw.com  Thu Feb 26 14:16:03 2004
From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay)
Date: Thu, 26 Feb 2004 13:16:03 -0600
Subject: Printing problem
In-Reply-To: <l0313031fbc6337325d0f@[192.168.1.100]>
References: <403D6BFB.2090407@hyperactivesw.com>
	<l03130316bc62c3179bbe@[192.168.1.100]>
	<l0313030cbc38d03efeeb@[192.168.1.100]>
	<l03130316bc62c3179bbe@[192.168.1.100]>
	<l0313031fbc6337325d0f@[192.168.1.100]>
Message-ID: <403E45F3.3080306@hyperactivesw.com>

On 2/25/04 11:43 PM, David Squance wrote:
> 
> Well, I remembered a short while ago seeing in the docs that an area of a
> card can be specified for printing, eg 0,0 to 500,300 (or the mouseloc, in
> their example).  So I dumped the mask button and tried that.  No joy.  Any
> more suggestions gratefully received.

Have you tried isolating the problem to see if it is the printer driver 
or actually the stack? I guess the next thing I'd try is to print to a 
PDF file. If that works, then it would be the print driver causing the 
hang.

You'll have to show the print dialog to print to PDF, if your scipt 
isn't doing that already.

How about other stacks? Can you print from one of those okay?

-- 
Jacqueline Landman Gay         |     jacque at hyperactivesw.com
HyperActive Software           |     http://www.hyperactivesw.com

From dsc at swcp.com  Thu Feb 26 14:22:43 2004
From: dsc at swcp.com (Dar Scott)
Date: Thu, 26 Feb 2004 12:22:43 -0700
Subject: Determining exact location within a field
In-Reply-To: <C2A3642C-687A-11D8-A4D0-000A959A7C0C@southernct.edu>
Message-ID: <26C5B304-6891-11D8-9612-000A9567A3E6@swcp.com>


On Thursday, February 26, 2004, at 09:42 AM, Dan Soneson wrote:

> Does anyone know of a way to find the location of a specific spot 
> within a text field? I am interested in developing a module that will 
> allow me to construct a fill-in-the-blank activity. My thought is to 
> construct a text in a field and mark the words that I want to replace 
> in some way (precede them with a special character). Then I want to 
> construct a button with a script that finds the words with this 
> character in the text and replaces them with a space. Over this space 
> I want to create a field into which users can enter the missing word. 
> It would be nice to automate this process and to be able to know 
> exactly where to place the new field, how large to make it, etc. But I 
> cannot figure out the placement issue.

I have been considering this.  Marking has been a problem for my use.  
In your case it may not.

I don't think you can replace the words with a space, since that will 
shift characters after that and make your fill-in fields at the wrong 
place.  I would think you want to cover the entire word with the 
fill-in field and it should take up the same space.

Ken Ray suggested selecting each of those words and then using the 
selectedLoc.  You may need to do all this in preOpenCard to keep all 
that invisible.  You might want to use formattedHeight to get the 
rectangle.

I have been considering somehow using the formattedHeight of some 
subsets of characters to help get info instead of selectedLoc.  I'm not 
sure how that will work.

Part of the problem is marking the locations.  You have solved that 
with a special character and with covering the point.  It would be a 
nice if there was a way to annotate text without making a link.  Hmmm.  
In your case, since you are covering the text, the link might be OK.  
In my case, I can mess the text.

You may want to keep to a word to avoid splitting the fill-in field.  
Or turn off wrap.

Dar Scott


From sanke at hrz.uni-kassel.de  Thu Feb 26 14:32:36 2004
From: sanke at hrz.uni-kassel.de (Wilhelm Sanke)
Date: Thu, 26 Feb 2004 20:32:36 +0100
Subject: custom buttons
Message-ID: <403E49D4.7030301@hrz.uni-kassel.de>

On Feb 25, 2004 Thomas McGrath III wrote:


>My Bad,,,,,,
>
>I didn't include the images in that file.
>
>this one has it I swear....
>
>go URL "http://users.adelphia.net/~3mcgrath/Buttons.rev"
>
>
>Tom


Hi Tom,

Here is still another solution - somewhat different from yours in "Buttons.rev" - based on the recommendations of the stack "grafikbuttons" we put on our ftp-server for our students.

Put the "Bdown" image *on top* of the "BUp" image. Hide the "BDown" image.
Put the script to toggle between up and down into the "BUp" image, i.e. show and hide the "BDown" image from there, in this way there is no problem with receiving the "mousedown" and "Mouseup" messages.
As your "BDown" and "BUp" images are of different size you have to adjust - make smaller - the rect of the underlying "BUp" image when you show the "BDown" image on top of it.

Sample script for the "BUp" image (I had renamed the images to "top.png" and "base.png"):

Local OldRect, NewRect
on mousedown
  put the rect of me into OldRect
  put OldRect into NewRect
  add 4 to item 1 of NewRect
  add 4 to item 2 of NewRect
  set the rect of me to NewRect
  show image "base.png"
end mousedown
on mouseUp
  set the rect of me to OldRect
  hide image "base.png"
end mouseUp

There remains your "airplane.gif". Put a button with the airplane as the icon on top of the two images. Uncheck all checkboxes of tab "Behavior" and "Appearance".

Put the following script into this button:

on mousedown
  move me relative 2,2
  send mousedown to image "top.png"
end mousedown
on mouseUp
  move me relative -2,-2
  send "Mouseup" to image "top.png"
end mouseUp

Group the three controls.

The movement of this group is much smoother than of the groups in your stack "buttons.rev".--

Thanks to Chipp Walters, there is his "ButtonGadget" that addresses related, but different issues. I use his tool relatively often and additionally design my own png-images with the very affordable tool "RealDrawPro" (www.mediachance.com).

For some of my applications I would appreciate a new feature that makes it possible to place button names/labels directly *on* an icon, not just right, left, or below. Thus it would be possible to use custom buttons whose labels could be changed during runtime (this is of course not possible with the ButtonGadget stack); e.g. language learning exercises where the labels of the custom buttons change with each new problem could benefit from such a feature.

Of course you could also set the backpatterns of buttons to the custom images and then have the labels directly on top. But this solution is viable only in case of rectangular images, as with non-rectangular images the transparent parts of the PNGs appear as black.

Regards,

Wilhelm Sanke



From 3mcgrath at adelphia.net  Thu Feb 26 14:33:02 2004
From: 3mcgrath at adelphia.net (Thomas McGrath III)
Date: Thu, 26 Feb 2004 14:33:02 -0500
Subject: Determining exact location within a field
In-Reply-To: <C2A3642C-687A-11D8-A4D0-000A959A7C0C@southernct.edu>
References: <C2A3642C-687A-11D8-A4D0-000A959A7C0C@southernct.edu>
Message-ID: <97D2A742-6892-11D8-8D0D-000A95DA60FA@adelphia.net>

Dan,

Sort of a fill in the blanks like in a children's story book? Except 
you want to mark words to be replaced by script rather than pre doing 
it by hand?
Nice idea if this is right.

I think your biggest problem is going to be how fonts show up 
differently on different platforms (if your are shooting for cross 
platform).

I don't know how to locate the exact spot and size.
First:
	I did a little trick where I made a word white (same color as field) 
and that would keep the space and size exactly the size of the right 
word while hiding it. But hiliting/selecting the text will show the 
text on highlighting. Now if that was not going to happen you would be 
good.

Second:
	 If you knew before hand the actual size of characters and built 
fields based upon those sizes it would work in theory. But that is a 
difficult task as characters do not have the same width even in the 
same font.

Far out idea:
If you put all of the words into separate fields (one per word or one 
per group of words before needed word and after needed word) and 
aligned those fields (but made them blank for the empty one after 
creating it) by line and by back to back it would work. You could 
create a blank text field and enter text and then do a fit to contents 
by height and width But then you need to adjust margins etc.

Unless of course someone else knows how to get that size and 
placement????

Tom

On Feb 26, 2004, at 11:42 AM, Dan Soneson wrote:

> Does anyone know of a way to find the location of a specific spot 
> within a text field? I am interested in developing a module that will 
> allow me to construct a fill-in-the-blank activity. My thought is to 
> construct a text in a field and mark the words that I want to replace 
> in some way (precede them with a special character). Then I want to 
> construct a button with a script that finds the words with this 
> character in the text and replaces them with a space. Over this space 
> I want to create a field into which users can enter the missing word. 
> It would be nice to automate this process and to be able to know 
> exactly where to place the new field, how large to make it, etc. But I 
> cannot figure out the placement issue.
>
> Any suggestions appreciated.
>
> Dan
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>
>

Thomas J. McGrath III
SCS
1000 Killarney Dr.
Pittsburgh, PA 15234
412-885-8541


From scott at tactilemedia.com  Thu Feb 26 14:33:37 2004
From: scott at tactilemedia.com (Scott Rossi)
Date: Thu, 26 Feb 2004 11:33:37 -0800
Subject: Determining exact location within a field
In-Reply-To: <26C5B304-6891-11D8-9612-000A9567A3E6@swcp.com>
Message-ID: <BC638A11.A4C3%scott@tactilemedia.com>

> Does anyone know of a way to find the location of a specific spot
> within a text field? I am interested in developing a module that will
> allow me to construct a fill-in-the-blank activity. My thought is to
> construct a text in a field and mark the words that I want to replace
> in some way (precede them with a special character). Then I want to
> construct a button with a script that finds the words with this
> character in the text and replaces them with a space. Over this space
> I want to create a field into which users can enter the missing word.
> It would be nice to automate this process and to be able to know
> exactly where to place the new field, how large to make it, etc. But I
> cannot figure out the placement issue.

I believe the foundLoc function is one way to do it.  Use the textHeight of
the target field to calculate the height of the "text box", and apply the
foundLoc to the last char of the target word to determine the width of the
"text box".

Regards,

Scott Rossi
Creative Director
Tactile Media, Multimedia & Design
-----
E: scott at tactilemedia.com
W: http://www.tactilemedia.com


From 3mcgrath at adelphia.net  Thu Feb 26 14:47:06 2004
From: 3mcgrath at adelphia.net (Thomas McGrath III)
Date: Thu, 26 Feb 2004 14:47:06 -0500
Subject: disabled buttons
In-Reply-To: <033401c3fc8d$97deb890$6601a8c0@LightningFlash>
References: <033401c3fc8d$97deb890$6601a8c0@LightningFlash>
Message-ID: <8E5E22DA-6894-11D8-8D0D-000A95DA60FA@adelphia.net>

Ken,

That is a great use of available storage for icons. I like it.

Now, Does anyone know why I can't move a button in a group by name??? I 
can move it by ID.
the group is called "Button 1"
the button I want to move is called "Button 1a" - placeholder button 
for icon over other buttons
me is the group
another button is called "Button 1" - available button
another button is called "Button 1b" - unavailable button

-------- works ------
put the id of button (the short name of me & "a") into myTempButton
move button id myTempButton relative 5,5
-------- does not work ------------
move button (the short name of me & "a") relative 5,5
-------- does not work -----------
move button (quote & the short name of me & "a" & quote") relative 5,5
------- does not work ------------
put (the short name of me & "a") into myTempButton
move button myTempButton relative 5,5
------- does not work -----------
put (quote & the short name of me & "a" & quote) into myTempButton
move button myTempButton relative 5,5

I am a little thrown by this. Remember this button is one of three in a 
group. I only want to move the one button in the group.

Tom

On Feb 26, 2004, at 12:25 PM, Ken Ray wrote:

> Tom,
>
> One approach might be to *use* the disabledIcon as a storage option, 
> but
> not *set* the button to be disabled (so a non-available button would 
> use
> the disabledIcon, but would still be able to be clicked). Use a custom
> property to hold the "normal" icon so you can re-establish it. 
> Something
> like this:
>
>   -- Assumes that each button contains a custom property called
>   -- "uAvailIcon" that holds the ID number of the image that is to
>   -- be displayed for available buttons.
>
>   on MakeUnavailable pBtnDescriptor
>     set the icon of pBtnDescriptor to (the disabledIcon of
> pBtnDescriptor)
>   end MakeUnavailable
>
>   on MakeAvailable pBtnDescriptor
>     set the icon of pBtnDescriptor to (the uAvailIcon of 
> pBtnDescriptor)
>   end MakeUnavailable
>
>   on mouseUp
>     if the icon of me = the disabledIcon of me then
>       -- run "clicked on unavailable button" code
>     else
>       -- run "clicked on available button" code
>     end if
>   end mouseUp
>
> Now if you need to have a hilite state for both available and
> unavailable buttons, you could swap out the hiliteIcon of the button 
> the
> same way...
>
> Just a thought,
>
> Ken Ray
> Sons of Thunder Software
> Email: kray at sonsothunder.com
> Web Site: http://www.sonsothunder.com/
>
>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: use-revolution-bounces at lists.runrev.com
>> [mailto:use-revolution-bounces at lists.runrev.com] On Behalf Of
>> Thomas McGrath III
>> Sent: Thursday, February 26, 2004 7:32 AM
>> To: How to use Revolution
>> Subject: Re: disabled buttons
>>
>>
>> Ken yeah that's what I did last time in SC. So I will do it again.
>>
>> But for this project a disabled button does not do what a
>> non-disabled
>> button would do BUT if a user hits a disabled button it 'resets' the
>> system of which buttons are available. I should use the term
>> available
>> and non-available (since disabled in rev means dead) whereas my
>> non-available buttons still have life in them ie. they reset the
>> system.
>>
>> You see it is the nature of sequenced buttons that on a third
>> hit of a
>> sequence you decided to back out of the sequence you can just hit a
>> non-available button to reset the system to be ready for a first hit
>> again.
>>
>> Since I am combining two buttons in a group to get the look
>> and feel I
>> need I am thinking of adding a third invisible image to the
>> group that
>> when the icon is unavailable the image will trap the message.
>>
>> Did you look at my buttons example?
>> put this in the message box:
>>
>> go URL "http://users.adelphia.net/~3mcgrath/Buttons.rev"
>>
>> This shows the button without a disabled state/ unavailable
>> state. Each
>> will be  built via script and would show different icons.
>>
>> Thanks
>> Tom
>>
>> On Feb 26, 2004, at 2:30 AM, Ken Norris wrote:
>>
>>> I'm having difficulty making any sense of why a user would expect a
>>> disabled
>>> button to do anything, but you could put a mouseUp handler
>> in the card
>>> instead of the button and spec it thus:
>>
>> Thomas J. McGrath III
>> SCS
>> 1000 Killarney Dr.
>> Pittsburgh, PA 15234
>> 412-885-8541
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> use-revolution mailing list
>> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-> revolution
>>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>
>

Thomas J. McGrath III
SCS
1000 Killarney Dr.
Pittsburgh, PA 15234
412-885-8541


From 3mcgrath at adelphia.net  Thu Feb 26 14:50:11 2004
From: 3mcgrath at adelphia.net (Thomas McGrath III)
Date: Thu, 26 Feb 2004 14:50:11 -0500
Subject: No subject
In-Reply-To: <AA08E896-688F-11D8-A4D0-000A959A7C0C@southernct.edu>
References: <AA08E896-688F-11D8-A4D0-000A959A7C0C@southernct.edu>
Message-ID: <FCDEA338-6894-11D8-8D0D-000A95DA60FA@adelphia.net>

That makes my ramblings useless. :-)

Good for you.

Would you share it when you are done???

Thanks

Tom

On Feb 26, 2004, at 2:12 PM, Dan Soneson wrote:

>> Check into the selectedLoc function. This would allow you to (under
>> lockScreen) select the chunk of text that is your placeholder, then 
>> use
>> the selectedLoc() to determine where the topLeft corner of the 
>> selection
>> is, and then use that to draw your entry field.
>>
>> HTH,
>>
>> Ken Ray
>
> Thanks, Ken. That's perfect! I simply use a unique initial character 
> for each word and another unique end character. I then use the offset 
> function to identify and select each character in turn, get the x,y 
> coordinates, do a bit of recalculation and then create a field that 
> begins at the initial  character and ends after the ending character. 
> I don't even have to delete this word, just cover it with the new 
> field. It works and looks terrific.
>
> Thanks again.
>
> Dan
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>
>

Thomas J. McGrath III
SCS
1000 Killarney Dr.
Pittsburgh, PA 15234
412-885-8541


From 3mcgrath at adelphia.net  Thu Feb 26 14:52:17 2004
From: 3mcgrath at adelphia.net (Thomas McGrath III)
Date: Thu, 26 Feb 2004 14:52:17 -0500
Subject: Determining exact location within a field
In-Reply-To: <26C5B304-6891-11D8-9612-000A9567A3E6@swcp.com>
References: <26C5B304-6891-11D8-9612-000A9567A3E6@swcp.com>
Message-ID: <483AAC3C-6895-11D8-8D0D-000A95DA60FA@adelphia.net>

What about a link text style with out link color and line attributes???

Or just Bold....

Tom


On Feb 26, 2004, at 2:22 PM, Dar Scott wrote:

> Part of the problem is marking the locations.  You have solved that 
> with a special character and with covering the point.  It would be a 
> nice if there was a way to annotate text without making a link.  Hmmm. 
>  In your case, since you are covering the text, the link might be OK.  
> In my case, I can mess the text.
>
>

Thomas J. McGrath III
SCS
1000 Killarney Dr.
Pittsburgh, PA 15234
412-885-8541


From revolution at jaedworks.com  Thu Feb 26 15:40:48 2004
From: revolution at jaedworks.com (Jeanne A. E. DeVoto)
Date: Thu, 26 Feb 2004 12:40:48 -0800
Subject: Determining exact location within a field
In-Reply-To: <26C5B304-6891-11D8-9612-000A9567A3E6@swcp.com>
References: <26C5B304-6891-11D8-9612-000A9567A3E6@swcp.com>
Message-ID: <p06010278bc640968c5b4@[10.0.1.8]>

At 12:22 PM -0700 2/26/2004, Dar Scott wrote:
>Part of the problem is marking the locations.  You have solved that 
>with a special character and with covering the point.  It would be a 
>nice if there was a way to annotate text without making a link. 
>Hmmm.  In your case, since you are covering the text, the link might 
>be OK.  In my case, I can mess the text.

If the problem here is the text color change and underlining of 
linked text - you know you can turn those off, right?

set the underlineLinks to false
set the linkColor to "black"
set the linkHiliteColor to "black"
set the linkVisitedColor to "black"

You can also set these properties for a stack, if you want to see 
link special effects in one window but not another.
-- 
jeanne a. e. devoto ~ jaed at jaedworks.com
http://www.jaedworks.com

From scott at tactilemedia.com  Thu Feb 26 15:48:40 2004
From: scott at tactilemedia.com (Scott Rossi)
Date: Thu, 26 Feb 2004 12:48:40 -0800
Subject: [ANN] Tutti 3D
In-Reply-To: <ENEALNOCJBOOOHHCCEKNKEOCFNAA.b.xavier@internet.lu>
Message-ID: <BC639BA8.A4D3%scott@tactilemedia.com>

> math transformations such as angle changes can cause the animation to slow
down

In an effort to speed up the angled rotation of an object, the angle handler
has been rewritten as a function that is applied to the object's point list
*before* it is drawn.  Unfortunately, the results are the same (bummer) but
folks may find it easier to use the function in their own scripts.

(Between the above and Jim Hurley, the animation script has been streamlined
a bit -- the Tutti3D stack has been updated with the changes on our server.)

If folks have other ideas for quickly manipulating lots of numbers, feel
free to chime in.  Of course "an external" is the obvious answer, but
perhaps there is a native method, or I'm just missing something in the
technique being applied here...

Regards,

Scott Rossi
Creative Director
Tactile Media, Multimedia & Design
-----
E: scott at tactilemedia.com
W: http://www.tactilemedia.com


From sonesond1 at southernct.edu  Thu Feb 26 15:55:45 2004
From: sonesond1 at southernct.edu (Dan Soneson)
Date: Thu, 26 Feb 2004 15:55:45 -0500
Subject: Web App issues with NetZero
Message-ID: <25E80D04-689E-11D8-A4D0-000A959A7C0C@southernct.edu>

> My guess is that Web Zero is running a proxy service which caches
> content. A fix is to set your server to always send fresh content. It's
> a setting in your server. What server are you using?
>
> You also might be able to just send a "No-cache" request in your 
> headers
> as well, which forces the proxy server to get fresh content. Though 
> this
> doesn't always work on all proxy servers.
>
> -Chipp

Thanks, Chipp. This looks like it is indeed the problem. We are using 
Apache. I've
asked my Web administrator to look into it. He doesn't know offhand 
what the
setting is, but he'll check it out.

Dan


From dsc at swcp.com  Thu Feb 26 15:55:02 2004
From: dsc at swcp.com (Dar Scott)
Date: Thu, 26 Feb 2004 13:55:02 -0700
Subject: Determining exact location within a field
In-Reply-To: <p06010278bc640968c5b4@[10.0.1.8]>
Message-ID: <0C07ECA0-689E-11D8-9612-000A9567A3E6@swcp.com>


On Thursday, February 26, 2004, at 01:40 PM, Jeanne A. E. DeVoto wrote:

> If the problem here is the text color change and underlining of linked 
> text - you know you can turn those off, right?
>
> set the underlineLinks to false
> set the linkColor to "black"
> set the linkHiliteColor to "black"
> set the linkVisitedColor to "black"

Thanks!  In my particular case, I am also using links as links.

One use is to float objects to the left of the specified text even in 
changing OS's and available fonts.  That is, to the left of the field 
and even, up and down, with the specified text.

I am considering finding highly-portable fonts, imaging text, and 
implementing some sort of styles to address some other problems and 
that might solve or mitigate this.  I'm also thinking of using 0-width 
characters as markers and naming them by keeping a list of names.  I 
don't know yet what to use as the marker.  I could also maintain the 
character position (or range), but that would mean processing every 
character in editing.

Dar Scott


From psahores at easynet.fr  Thu Feb 26 15:58:06 2004
From: psahores at easynet.fr (Pierre Sahores)
Date: Thu, 26 Feb 2004 21:58:06 +0100
Subject: Important question regarding next major Rev version]
In-Reply-To: <a0602044cbc635d4b658f@[141.89.100.235]>
References: <403DA5FA.4050509@chipp.com>
	<a0602044cbc635d4b658f@[141.89.100.235]>
Message-ID: <79C23DC8-689E-11D8-AB9E-000A95C61E96@easynet.fr>

Hi Valetia,

Be welcome to the List. There are lots of interesting thinks to share 
with cool and helpfull people there. Just take care about the thing 
that Revolution is howned by a great but small company with full handy 
designers and programmers, whose are working hard 16/24 hours, 6/7 days 
to improve the performances of the product. They are always focusing 
their efforts with 2 grades of priorities : First, the improvement of 
the stability and the performances of the engine (witch always roocks, 
if you know how to get the best from it), Second, the improvement of 
the stability, the performances and the features of the IDE (witch is 
not always exactly working as firsly expected,... mostly under the 
Linux platform).

If you can work around the unavailable features or bugs you discover 
and report to the RunRev Team, you will see that Revolution, is over 
all, a very powerfull and suitable development tool, able to let you 
code all kind of very suitable professional-grade Desktop and N-Tier 
solutions.

Hope this helps,
-- 
Bien cordialement, Pierre Sahores

100, rue de Paris
F - 77140 Nemours

psahores at easynet.fr

GSM:   +33 6 03 95 77 70
Pro:      +33 1 41 60 52 68
Dom:    +33 1 64 45 05 33
Fax:      +33 1 64 45 05 33

Inspection acad?mique de Seine-Saint-Denis
Applications et SGBD ACID SQL (WEB et PGI)
Penser et produire "delta de productivit?"

Le 26 f?vr. 04, ? 09:40, Robert Brenstein a ?crit :
>
> Chipp, Valetia is hardly a first-time poster if you care to check the 
> archives. He might have come strong but we should understand where he 
> is coming from and be sympathetic rather than trying to prove to him 
> that he is wrong .It seems that every few months someone vents their 
> frustration with Rev on the list. This must mean something. How many 
> do it in private we will never know. I know that while I am normally 
> quite happy with the environment and heartedly recommend it to anyone, 
> I also have ocassional bouts of such frustration when exceeding my 
> threshold of having to work around bugs or inconsistences or hitting 
> some limits. Some of these could have and should have been addressed 
> by now. Let's not forget that each of us uses Rev somewhat 
> differently, so we run into somewhat different issues and have a 
> different look at what is and what should be. But at least we now have 
> (still greatly under-utilized) voting option in Bugzilla as a means to 
> give feedback to Rev team on our collective priorities.
>
> Robert Brenstein
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>
  

From jacque at hyperactivesw.com  Thu Feb 26 16:04:02 2004
From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay)
Date: Thu, 26 Feb 2004 15:04:02 -0600
Subject: disabled buttons
In-Reply-To: <8E5E22DA-6894-11D8-8D0D-000A95DA60FA@adelphia.net>
References: <033401c3fc8d$97deb890$6601a8c0@LightningFlash>
	<8E5E22DA-6894-11D8-8D0D-000A95DA60FA@adelphia.net>
Message-ID: <403E5F42.1040108@hyperactivesw.com>

On 2/26/04 1:47 PM, Thomas McGrath III wrote:

> Does anyone know why I can't move a button in a group by name??? I 
> can move it by ID.
> the group is called "Button 1"

Bad naming convention. "Button 1" can be interpreted by the engine as a 
valid Transcript reference rather than the name of your button group.

Name your groups according to a convention that doesn't already exist in 
the language, like "b1" or "btnGrp1".

-- 
Jacqueline Landman Gay         |     jacque at hyperactivesw.com
HyperActive Software           |     http://www.hyperactivesw.com

From ambassador at fourthworld.com  Thu Feb 26 16:08:06 2004
From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin)
Date: Thu, 26 Feb 2004 13:08:06 -0800
Subject: File associations in Panther
Message-ID: <403E6036.6010602@fourthworld.com>

I'm using the same standalone building process I've used for the last 
year, only now on Panther my standalones won't recognize my custom 
document types.

Also, when I modify the core engine name within the MacOS folder and 
then edit my plist to match, in earlier versions of OS X this was how I 
got the process name to match the bundle name, only in Jaguar the same 
steps I'd used successfully before no longer work -- now the app simply 
doesn't launch.

Have any of you successfully assigned custom document types to a Rev 
standalone under Panther w/ Rev 2.1?  If so, what are you doing 
differently than you had done under Jaguar?


Side question:  We've all noticed that Panther no longer honors the GURL 
Apple event, but does anyone here know if that's intentional or a bug in 
the Finder?

-- 
  Richard Gaskin
  Fourth World Media Corporation
  ___________________________________________________________
  Ambassador at FourthWorld.com       http://www.FourthWorld.com


From hershbp at realtorsgroup.us  Thu Feb 26 16:45:54 2004
From: hershbp at realtorsgroup.us (hershrev)
Date: Thu, 26 Feb 2004 16:45:54 -0500
Subject: Replace in Vars's
Message-ID: <26FDD35D-68A5-11D8-9ABD-0030654C1E62@realtorsgroup.us>

Hi every one ,
  I need to replace oneVar with anotherVar in athirdVar  ?
Thanks hershrev.


From psahores at easynet.fr  Thu Feb 26 16:50:09 2004
From: psahores at easynet.fr (Pierre Sahores)
Date: Thu, 26 Feb 2004 22:50:09 +0100
Subject: Frustration with OSX 10.3, WebStar 5, and Apple Events
In-Reply-To: <4C42AB88-6886-11D8-8DC5-003065C81E14@unl.edu>
References: <4C42AB88-6886-11D8-8DC5-003065C81E14@unl.edu>
Message-ID: <BF38AE49-68A5-11D8-AB9E-000A95C61E96@easynet.fr>

Hi,

For best results, replace appleevents by a PHP based sockets listener, 
witch will bind WebSTAR 5 (or best, Apache) to your Revolution 
application trough TCP/IP. This way works fine on both OSX, Win32 and 
Linux. I explain, time to time, how to set-up this way on the list. 
Browse the Rev list archive for the details.

Hope this helps,
-- 
Bien cordialement, Pierre Sahores

100, rue de Paris
F - 77140 Nemours

psahores at easynet.fr

GSM:   +33 6 03 95 77 70
Pro:      +33 1 41 60 52 68
Dom:    +33 1 64 45 05 33
Fax:      +33 1 64 45 05 33

Inspection acad?mique de Seine-Saint-Denis
Applications et SGBD ACID SQL (WEB et PGI)
Penser et produire "delta de productivit?"

Le 26 f?vr. 04, ? 19:05, Sydney Brown a ?crit :

> hi,
>
> I would very much like to speak to someone who is using something
> similar to the following set-up to SUCCESSFULLY employ runtime
> revolution as a cgi.
>
> os x 10.3
> WebStar 5
> Runtime Revolution 2.1.2
>
> The objective is to use the apple event paradigm to engage runtime
> directly as opposed to using the CGI engine.
>
> We've tried a solution that apparently works for MacOS 9, but this has
> not yielded positive results.
>
> TIA,
> sydney
> _______________________________
>   Sydney Brown
>     University of Nebraska - Lincoln
>     email:  sbrown3 at unl.edu
>     phone:  402.472.2552
>     im: sydney at jabber.org
>     office: Henzlik 123a
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>


From dsc at swcp.com  Thu Feb 26 17:00:45 2004
From: dsc at swcp.com (Dar Scott)
Date: Thu, 26 Feb 2004 15:00:45 -0700
Subject: Replace in Vars's
In-Reply-To: <26FDD35D-68A5-11D8-9ABD-0030654C1E62@realtorsgroup.us>
Message-ID: <3A4C7B3F-68A7-11D8-9612-000A9567A3E6@swcp.com>


On Thursday, February 26, 2004, at 02:45 PM, hershrev wrote:

>  I need to replace oneVar with anotherVar in athirdVar  ?

Do you meant replacing all substrings equal to the value of oneVar with 
the value of anotherVar in some variable athirdVar?

    replace oneVar with anotherVar in athirdVar

See 'replace'.

Do you mean changing the value of a specified element in an array to 
that of another element?

    put athirdVar[anotherVar] into athirdVar[oneVar]

Dar Scott


From klaus at major-k.de  Thu Feb 26 17:01:15 2004
From: klaus at major-k.de (Klaus Major)
Date: Thu, 26 Feb 2004 23:01:15 +0100
Subject: Replace in Vars's
In-Reply-To: <26FDD35D-68A5-11D8-9ABD-0030654C1E62@realtorsgroup.us>
References: <26FDD35D-68A5-11D8-9ABD-0030654C1E62@realtorsgroup.us>
Message-ID: <4C0F2B4A-68A7-11D8-8A65-000A27B49A96@major-k.de>

Hi hershrev,

> Hi every one ,
>  I need to replace oneVar with anotherVar in athirdVar  ?

What about:

...
  replace oneVar with anotherVar in athirdVar
...

No fooling :-D

Tested and works!

> Thanks hershrev.

Regards

Klaus Major
klaus at major-k.de
www.major-k.de


From pixelbird at interisland.net  Thu Feb 26 17:01:34 2004
From: pixelbird at interisland.net (Ken Norris)
Date: Thu, 26 Feb 2004 14:01:34 -0800
Subject: disabled buttons
In-Reply-To: <20040226141459.A2CE1930075@mail.runrev.com>
Message-ID: <BC63ACBE.52F0%pixelbird@interisland.net>

Hi Robert,

> Date: Thu, 26 Feb 2004 10:11:36 +0100
> From: Robert Brenstein <rjb at rz.uni-potsdam.de>
> Subject: Re: disabled buttons

> You mean when you click a disabled button, the mouseUp is eaten by
> that button?
-----------
It will not have any affect on the button itself, but if there is a mouseUp
handler in the domain, it will catch the mouseUp...at least it does here
AFAIK.

Ken N.


From 3mcgrath at adelphia.net  Thu Feb 26 17:07:31 2004
From: 3mcgrath at adelphia.net (Thomas McGrath III)
Date: Thu, 26 Feb 2004 17:07:31 -0500
Subject: disabled buttons
In-Reply-To: <403E5F42.1040108@hyperactivesw.com>
References: <033401c3fc8d$97deb890$6601a8c0@LightningFlash>
	<8E5E22DA-6894-11D8-8D0D-000A95DA60FA@adelphia.net>
	<403E5F42.1040108@hyperactivesw.com>
Message-ID: <2C4C9ED6-68A8-11D8-8D0D-000A95DA60FA@adelphia.net>

You know I am so dammed Upset with myself right now.
A naming convention?????!!!!!

A freaking naming convention!!!!!!!!!!

Sh_t, Sh_t and double Sh_t......

I spent hours playing with stupid code today.......,,,..

HHHMMMMM - me trying to meditate

HHHHMMMM - me still trying to meditate


Thank you Jac,

I will calm down and rewrite my scripts.

This will make my code a lot easier, no doubt.

Thanks

Tom

On Feb 26, 2004, at 4:04 PM, J. Landman Gay wrote:

> On 2/26/04 1:47 PM, Thomas McGrath III wrote:
>
>> Does anyone know why I can't move a button in a group by name??? I 
>> can move it by ID.
>> the group is called "Button 1"
>
> Bad naming convention. "Button 1" can be interpreted by the engine as 
> a valid Transcript reference rather than the name of your button 
> group.
>
> Name your groups according to a convention that doesn't already exist 
> in the language, like "b1" or "btnGrp1".
>
> -- 
> Jacqueline Landman Gay         |     jacque at hyperactivesw.com
> HyperActive Software           |     http://www.hyperactivesw.com
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>
>

Thomas J. McGrath III
SCS
1000 Killarney Dr.
Pittsburgh, PA 15234
412-885-8541


From ambassador at fourthworld.com  Thu Feb 26 17:11:02 2004
From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin)
Date: Thu, 26 Feb 2004 14:11:02 -0800
Subject: Selection strategies
Message-ID: <403E6EF6.1080903@fourthworld.com>

I'm making a toolbar in a palette window which modifies text in a field 
in a toplevel stack.  I find that when text is selected in the field the 
palette buttons work great, but if the cursor is inserted with no 
selection then clicking in the palette window causes the field to lose 
focus.

Any of you know how to make that work?

-- 
  Richard Gaskin
  Fourth World Media Corporation
  ___________________________________________________________
  Ambassador at FourthWorld.com       http://www.FourthWorld.com


From kray at sonsothunder.com  Thu Feb 26 17:17:04 2004
From: kray at sonsothunder.com (Ken Ray)
Date: Thu, 26 Feb 2004 16:17:04 -0600
Subject: No subject
In-Reply-To: <AA08E896-688F-11D8-A4D0-000A959A7C0C@southernct.edu>
Message-ID: <037301c3fcb6$46c8fb90$6601a8c0@LightningFlash>

> Thanks, Ken. That's perfect! I simply use a unique initial character 
> for each word and another unique end character. I then use the offset 
> function to identify and select each character in turn, get the x,y 
> coordinates, do a bit of recalculation and then create a field that 
> begins at the initial  character and ends after the ending 
> character. I 
> don't even have to delete this word, just cover it with the 
> new field. 
> It works and looks terrific.
> 
> Thanks again.

Glad I could help...

Ken Ray
Sons of Thunder Software
Email: kray at sonsothunder.com
Web Site: http://www.sonsothunder.com/ 



From alex at mindlube.com  Thu Feb 26 17:20:36 2004
From: alex at mindlube.com (Alex Rice)
Date: Thu, 26 Feb 2004 15:20:36 -0700
Subject: Frustration with OSX 10.3, WebStar 5, and Apple Events
In-Reply-To: <4C42AB88-6886-11D8-8DC5-003065C81E14@unl.edu>
References: <4C42AB88-6886-11D8-8DC5-003065C81E14@unl.edu>
Message-ID: <000C4A29-68AA-11D8-8802-000393C4760A@mindlube.com>


On Feb 26, 2004, at 11:05 AM, Sydney Brown wrote:

>
> os x 10.3
> WebStar 5
> Runtime Revolution 2.1.2

Why use WebStar? Apache web server is included with all OS X versions 
including workstation (not just X Server)


--
Alex Rice | Mindlube Software | http://mindlube.com


From hershbp at realtorsgroup.us  Thu Feb 26 17:31:00 2004
From: hershbp at realtorsgroup.us (hershrev)
Date: Thu, 26 Feb 2004 17:31:00 -0500
Subject: Replace in Vars's
In-Reply-To: <4C0F2B4A-68A7-11D8-8A65-000A27B49A96@major-k.de>
Message-ID: <745FC824-68AB-11D8-9ABD-0030654C1E62@realtorsgroup.us>


On Thursday, February 26, 2004, at 05:01 PM, Klaus Major wrote:

> Hi hershrev,
>
>> Hi every one ,
>>  I need to replace oneVar with anotherVar in athirdVar  ?
>
> What about:
>
> ...
>  replace oneVar with anotherVar in athirdVar
compiler complains.
> ...
>
> No fooling :-D
>
> Tested and works!
>
>> Thanks hershrev.
>
> Regards
>
> Klaus Major
> klaus at major-k.de
> www.major-k.de
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>


From hershbp at realtorsgroup.us  Thu Feb 26 17:31:27 2004
From: hershbp at realtorsgroup.us (hershrev)
Date: Thu, 26 Feb 2004 17:31:27 -0500
Subject: Replace in Vars's
In-Reply-To: <3A4C7B3F-68A7-11D8-9612-000A9567A3E6@swcp.com>
Message-ID: <84806567-68AB-11D8-9ABD-0030654C1E62@realtorsgroup.us>


On Thursday, February 26, 2004, at 05:00 PM, Dar Scott wrote:

>
> On Thursday, February 26, 2004, at 02:45 PM, hershrev wrote:
>
>>  I need to replace oneVar with anotherVar in athirdVar  ?
>
> Do you meant replacing all substrings equal to the value of oneVar 
> with the value of anotherVar in some variable athirdVar?
>
>    replace oneVar with anotherVar in athirdVar
compiler complains.

>
> See 'replace'.
>
> Do you mean changing the value of a specified element in an array to 
> that of another element?
>
>    put athirdVar[anotherVar] into athirdVar[oneVar]
>
> Dar Scott
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>


From chipp at chipp.com  Thu Feb 26 17:33:03 2004
From: chipp at chipp.com (Chipp Walters)
Date: Thu, 26 Feb 2004 16:33:03 -0600
Subject: Selection strategies
In-Reply-To: <403E6EF6.1080903@fourthworld.com>
References: <403E6EF6.1080903@fourthworld.com>
Message-ID: <403E741F.9090806@chipp.com>

Richard, see if this helps:

if the selectedText of fld 1 of stack "Untitled 1" is empty then
     focus on fld 1 of stack "Untitled 1"
end if

I tried it here and it works.

Richard Gaskin wrote:

> I'm making a toolbar in a palette window which modifies text in a field 
> in a toplevel stack.  I find that when text is selected in the field the 
> palette buttons work great, but if the cursor is inserted with no 
> selection then clicking in the palette window causes the field to lose 
> focus.
> 
> Any of you know how to make that work?
> 

From klaus at major-k.de  Thu Feb 26 17:36:34 2004
From: klaus at major-k.de (Klaus Major)
Date: Thu, 26 Feb 2004 23:36:34 +0100
Subject: Replace in Vars's
In-Reply-To: <745FC824-68AB-11D8-9ABD-0030654C1E62@realtorsgroup.us>
References: <745FC824-68AB-11D8-9ABD-0030654C1E62@realtorsgroup.us>
Message-ID: <3B151DD7-68AC-11D8-8A65-000A27B49A96@major-k.de>

Hi hershrev,

> On Thursday, February 26, 2004, at 05:01 PM, Klaus Major wrote:
>> Hi hershrev,
>>> Hi every one ,
>>>  I need to replace oneVar with anotherVar in athirdVar  ?
>> What about:
>> ...
>>  replace oneVar with anotherVar in athirdVar
> compiler complains.
>> ...
>>
>> No fooling :-D
>>
>> Tested and works!

I scripted:

on mouseup
   put "www" into v1
   put "mmm" into v2
   put "www www hhh" into v3
   replace v1 with v2 in v3
   put v3
end mouseup

and found "mmm mmm hhh" in the msg...

???


What is in your vars?


Regards

Klaus Major
klaus at major-k.de
www.major-k.de


From pixelbird at interisland.net  Thu Feb 26 17:44:40 2004
From: pixelbird at interisland.net (Ken Norris)
Date: Thu, 26 Feb 2004 14:44:40 -0800
Subject: disabled buttons
In-Reply-To: <20040226141459.A2CE1930075@mail.runrev.com>
Message-ID: <BC63B6D8.52F1%pixelbird@interisland.net>

Hi Thomas,

> Date: Thu, 26 Feb 2004 08:32:27 -0500
> From: Thomas McGrath III <3mcgrath at adelphia.net>
> Subject: Re: disabled buttons
> 
> Ken yeah that's what I did last time in SC. So I will do it again.
> 
> But for this project a disabled button does not do what a non-disabled
> button would do BUT if a user hits a disabled button it 'resets' the
> system of which buttons are available.
-----------
Disabled buttons don't receive physical mouse events, s you can't use the
button.
----------- 
> I should use the term available and non-available (since disabled in rev means
> dead) 
-----------
No, not dead, asleep. You can wake it up by enabling it at anytime.
-----------
> whereas my non-available buttons still have life in them ie. they reset
> the system.
-----------
Then you are saying you want a different altered state which is not
disabled. Is that what you mean?
-----------
> You see it is the nature of sequenced buttons that on a third hit of a
> sequence you decided to back out of the sequence you can just hit a
> non-available button to reset the system to be ready for a first hit
> again.
-----------
> Since I am combining two buttons in a group to get the look and feel I
> need I am thinking of adding a third invisible image to the group that
> when the icon is unavailable the image will trap the message.
-----------
My point is that you don't need to do that. Check the Icons and Border
properties in the button's inspector. There are 5 (count'em) possible button
states in Rev, each of which can have it's own icon.
------------
> Did you look at my buttons example?
> put this in the message box:
> 
> go URL "http://users.adelphia.net/~3mcgrath/Buttons.rev"
-----------
Yep, but for the life of me I cannot figure out why you can't set up a
button with different states to do what you want.

**Cute drawings, BTW.

If you don't want the rest of the script to execute, simply state a conditon
that does something else, or passes the mouseUp to a handler in the domain.

OTOH, any button automatically records if it has been clicked, and sets a
visitedIcon which tells the user it has been clicked a least once, then if
the user clicks it again:

if the visited of me then
  doWhatever
end if

If you just absolutely have to -- you could show a semi-transparent grc over
the button. It will block messages to the button and also be able to pass
its own.

HTH,
Ken N.


From hershbp at realtorsgroup.us  Thu Feb 26 17:52:40 2004
From: hershbp at realtorsgroup.us (hershrev)
Date: Thu, 26 Feb 2004 17:52:40 -0500
Subject: Replace in Vars's
In-Reply-To: <3B151DD7-68AC-11D8-8A65-000A27B49A96@major-k.de>
Message-ID: <7ADC888C-68AE-11D8-9ABD-0030654C1E62@realtorsgroup.us>


On Thursday, February 26, 2004, at 05:36 PM, Klaus Major wrote:

> Hi hershrev,
>
>> On Thursday, February 26, 2004, at 05:01 PM, Klaus Major wrote:
>>> Hi hershrev,
>>>> Hi every one ,
>>>>  I need to replace oneVar with anotherVar in athirdVar  ?
>>> What about:
>>> ...
>>>  replace oneVar with anotherVar in athirdVar
>> compiler complains.
>>> ...
>>>
>>> No fooling :-D
>>>
>>> Tested and works!
>
> I scripted:
>
> on mouseup
>   put "www" into v1
>   put "mmm" into v2
>   put "www www hhh" into v3
>   replace v1 with v2 in v3
>   put v3
> end mouseup
>
> and found "mmm mmm hhh" in the msg...
>
> ???
>
>
> What is in your vars?
      	executing at 5:46:21 PM
Type	replace: error in pattern expression
Object	Contact Form
Line	replace  lOldText  with lFieldText in lEquery
Hint	closeField

>
>
> Regards
>
> Klaus Major
> klaus at major-k.de
> www.major-k.de
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>


From pixelbird at interisland.net  Thu Feb 26 17:52:05 2004
From: pixelbird at interisland.net (Ken Norris)
Date: Thu, 26 Feb 2004 14:52:05 -0800
Subject: custom buttons
In-Reply-To: <20040226141459.A2CE1930075@mail.runrev.com>
Message-ID: <BC63B895.52F2%pixelbird@interisland.net>

Hello Wouter,

> Date: Thu, 26 Feb 2004 14:40:15 +0100
> From: Wouter <wouter.abraham at pi.be>
> Subject: Re: custom buttons

> Another possible buttonscript.
> 
> local lOldLoc   ### or make custom properties upPos and downPos
> on mousedown
> put the loc of me into lOldLoc
.....etc.
------------
Just so you know, the script you presented works, but as regards buttons, is
26 lines of code that does exactly the same thing as setting img id's in the
Icons and Borders property.

...But you might want to use it for switching graphic images.

Ken N.


From briany at qldlearning.com  Thu Feb 26 17:52:41 2004
From: briany at qldlearning.com (Brian Yennie)
Date: Thu, 26 Feb 2004 17:52:41 -0500
Subject: Replace in Vars's
In-Reply-To: <7ADC888C-68AE-11D8-9ABD-0030654C1E62@realtorsgroup.us>
Message-ID: <7BAAFAB6-68AE-11D8-BA02-000393AA08D2@qldlearning.com>

Perhaps one of the vars is empty, or misnamed, or such? Could you post 
the actual closeField handler?

> Type	replace: error in pattern expression
> Object	Contact Form
> Line	replace  lOldText  with lFieldText in lEquery
> Hint	closeField


From dsc at swcp.com  Thu Feb 26 17:57:28 2004
From: dsc at swcp.com (Dar Scott)
Date: Thu, 26 Feb 2004 15:57:28 -0700
Subject: Replace in Vars's
In-Reply-To: <84806567-68AB-11D8-9ABD-0030654C1E62@realtorsgroup.us>
Message-ID: <266F73A0-68AF-11D8-9612-000A9567A3E6@swcp.com>


On Thursday, February 26, 2004, at 03:31 PM, hershrev wrote:

>>>  I need to replace oneVar with anotherVar in athirdVar  ?
>>
>> Do you meant replacing all substrings equal to the value of oneVar 
>> with the value of anotherVar in some variable athirdVar?
>>
>>    replace oneVar with anotherVar in athirdVar
> compiler complains.
>
This works OK at my house with handler local vars.

Typo?  It should be "with" and not "wiht".

Sometimes a weird character shows up in the script and breaks 
compiling.  Try replacing [hee hee] the entire line.

If that fails, let us know the compiling error.

Dar Scott


From ambassador at fourthworld.com  Thu Feb 26 18:03:33 2004
From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin)
Date: Thu, 26 Feb 2004 15:03:33 -0800
Subject: Selection strategies
In-Reply-To: <403E741F.9090806@chipp.com>
References: <403E6EF6.1080903@fourthworld.com> <403E741F.9090806@chipp.com>
Message-ID: <403E7B45.6060606@fourthworld.com>

Chipp Walters wrote:

 > Richard Gaskin wrote:
 >
 >> I'm making a toolbar in a palette window which modifies text in a
 >> field in a toplevel stack.  I find that when text is selected in the
 >> field the palette buttons work great, but if the cursor is inserted
 >> with no selection then clicking in the palette window causes the
 >> field to lose focus.
 >>
 >> Any of you know how to make that work?
>
> if the selectedText of fld 1 of stack "Untitled 1" is empty then
>     focus on fld 1 of stack "Untitled 1"
> end if
> 
> I tried it here and it works.

With one limitation  I didn't mention: one of the reasons I need the 
selection is to determine which field is being edited.  The layout has a 
number of fields.

I could set a var on openfield, but that just seems unclean and 
ultimately error prone.  If nothing else surfaces I'll give it a shot.

Thanks for the assist -

-- 
  Richard Gaskin
  Fourth World Media Corporation
  ___________________________________________________________
  Ambassador at FourthWorld.com       http://www.FourthWorld.com

From dsc at swcp.com  Thu Feb 26 18:12:57 2004
From: dsc at swcp.com (Dar Scott)
Date: Thu, 26 Feb 2004 16:12:57 -0700
Subject: Replace in Vars's
In-Reply-To: <7ADC888C-68AE-11D8-9ABD-0030654C1E62@realtorsgroup.us>
Message-ID: <50A11344-68B1-11D8-9612-000A9567A3E6@swcp.com>


On Thursday, February 26, 2004, at 03:52 PM, hershrev wrote:

>      	executing at 5:46:21 PM
> Type	replace: error in pattern expression
> Object	Contact Form
> Line	replace  lOldText  with lFieldText in lEquery
> Hint	closeField

You get that at compile?  That looks like a runtime error.

You probably have lOldText empty.  The meaning is to surround every 
char with lFieldText, but the runtime is sure that is not what you 
really want.

Use try or test for empty.

Dar Scott


From dsc at swcp.com  Thu Feb 26 18:17:20 2004
From: dsc at swcp.com (Dar Scott)
Date: Thu, 26 Feb 2004 16:17:20 -0700
Subject: Replace in Vars's
In-Reply-To: <50A11344-68B1-11D8-9612-000A9567A3E6@swcp.com>
Message-ID: <ECE19A6B-68B1-11D8-9612-000A9567A3E6@swcp.com>


On Thursday, February 26, 2004, at 04:12 PM, Dar Scott wrote:

> You probably have lOldText empty.  The meaning is to surround every 
> char with lFieldText, but the runtime is sure that is not what you 
> really want.

Now that I think about it, there are an infinite number of empty 
substrings between every character and, with this interpretation the 
result could be too big.  An error is reasonable.  It would be easy to 
not think of this, though.

Dar Scott


From valetia at mac.com  Thu Feb 26 18:23:13 2004
From: valetia at mac.com (valetia @mac.com)
Date: Thu, 26 Feb 2004 15:23:13 -0800
Subject: Important question regarding next major Rev version
Message-ID: <7853526.1077837793712.JavaMail.valetia@mac.com>

Pierre Sahores <psahores at easynet.fr> wrote:

> Be welcome to the List. There are lots of interesting thinks to share 
> with cool and helpfull people there.

Once again, I am not a newcomer to this list.

> Just take care about the thing 
> that Revolution is howned by a great but small company with full handy 
> designers and programmers, whose are working hard 16/24 hours, 6/7 days 
> to improve the performances of the product. They are always focusing 
> their efforts with 2 grades of priorities : First, the improvement of 
> the stability and the performances of the engine (witch always roocks, 
> if you know how to get the best from it), Second, the improvement of 
> the stability, the performances and the features of the IDE (witch is 
> not always exactly working as firsly expected,... mostly under the 
> Linux platform).

Well, those efforts have been rock solid for some time already. After
those priorities are settled, isn't it time to look at the remaining
priorities, which are just as important?

How would you feel if you had put together most of a 10,000 piece puzzle
and had just one last piece missing and you couldn't find it so you
couldn't frame it or show it to anyone...that's exactly what is happening
now...native UI support being that last piece...

> If you can work around the unavailable features or bugs you discover 
> and report to the RunRev Team, you will see that Revolution, is over 
> all, a very powerfull and suitable development tool, able to let you 
> code all kind of very suitable professional-grade Desktop and N-Tier 
> solutions.

That again proves my point. When you need to spend days and weeks trying
to "work around" unavailable features or bugs, and then end up with working
widgets that don't look and behave exactly like their native counterparts,
it defeats the purpose of using a RAD. It's supposed to save you time and
produce the correct output, which I know it can, if the UI is native.

We do not doubt the power of Revolution, in fact we have used it to create
what you term "professional-grade Desktop and N-Tier solutions" using both
the client and CGI. We have done full-featured cookie-based web login systems,
interfacing between RR clients and CGI for niche markets, etc. The thing
about such apps is they do not necessarily need to be based on a native look
and feel, but that is *not* what I am talking about here.

I am talking about getting the native look and feel right, so that RR users
can tap into the mass consumer market properly with apps that look 100% normal,
without any fake UI elements. I am talking about getting tons of RR apps listed
on VersionTracker, Download.com, etc. that look and work right and receive tons
of rave reviews from people on *all* platforms.

Right now, we have a number of apps just waiting in the wings to be released,
and they work just fine, transcript can handle everything without problems,
but we do not want to spoil our reputation by putting up something that can't
even display standard UI elements properly.

Again, that is why many are calling RR a toy, even though it is not so. It is
time to put a stop to that. Not only does it hurt RR's reputation and
bottomline, it's also holding back many developers...and consumers end up with
less choices - there is no advantage to any party at all for putting UI
development on the backburner...

Val




From hershbp at realtorsgroup.us  Thu Feb 26 18:28:45 2004
From: hershbp at realtorsgroup.us (hershrev)
Date: Thu, 26 Feb 2004 18:28:45 -0500
Subject: Replace in Vars's
In-Reply-To: <266F73A0-68AF-11D8-9612-000A9567A3E6@swcp.com>
Message-ID: <856C4840-68B3-11D8-9ABD-0030654C1E62@realtorsgroup.us>

I cleared all Var.'s Local and Global and now it works properly.
Thanks to all . hershrev
By the way this the basic recipe for edit SQL for not connected fields.

put these scripts in your card or stack

on openField
   put the text of the selectedField into lOldText
end openField

on closeField
   if gAction = "Edit"
   then
     put the name of the selectedField into lModifyFieldName
     put the text of the selectedField into lFieldText
     delete   word 1 of lModifyFieldName
     delete char 1 of word 1 of lModifyFieldName
     delete char -1 of word 1 of lModifyFieldName
     if lEquery contains lModifyFieldName
     then
       if lOldText <> lFieldText
       then
         replace  lOldText  with lFieldText in lEquery
       end if
     else
       put lModifyFieldName &&"="&"'"& the Text of the selectedField 
&"',"& space after lEquery
     end if
   end if
   put lEquery into gtest
end closeField

on go
   put "UPDATE databaseName&&"SET"&&lEquery&&"WHERE text = text"
end go

  in your button put
on mouseUp
   go
end mouseUp

and comments would be appreciated (even critics)
Thanks hershrev

On Thursday, February 26, 2004, at 05:57 PM, Dar Scott wrote:

>
> On Thursday, February 26, 2004, at 03:31 PM, hershrev wrote:
>
>>>>  I need to replace oneVar with anotherVar in athirdVar  ?
>>>
>>> Do you meant replacing all substrings equal to the value of oneVar 
>>> with the value of anotherVar in some variable athirdVar?
>>>
>>>    replace oneVar with anotherVar in athirdVar
>> compiler complains.
>>
> This works OK at my house with handler local vars.
>
> Typo?  It should be "with" and not "wiht".
>
> Sometimes a weird character shows up in the script and breaks 
> compiling.  Try replacing [hee hee] the entire line.
>
> If that fails, let us know the compiling error.
>
> Dar Scott
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>


From hershbp at realtorsgroup.us  Thu Feb 26 18:45:14 2004
From: hershbp at realtorsgroup.us (hershrev)
Date: Thu, 26 Feb 2004 18:45:14 -0500
Subject: The "Answer with dialog"
Message-ID: <D2D50738-68B5-11D8-9ABD-0030654C1E62@realtorsgroup.us>

Hello,
Is it possible to remove the "R"  from the "answer with" dialog  ?
Thanks hershrev


From hershbp at realtorsgroup.us  Thu Feb 26 19:52:33 2004
From: hershbp at realtorsgroup.us (hershrev)
Date: Thu, 26 Feb 2004 19:52:33 -0500
Subject: empty multiple fields
Message-ID: <3A9833BC-68BF-11D8-9ABD-0030654C1E62@realtorsgroup.us>

Hi everybody,
is there a faster way to clear (empty) multiple fields then
put empty in field"1"
put empty in field"2"
and so on ? to put all field names in Var and repeat for each line or 
so?
Thanks, hershrev.


From revlists at canelasoftware.com  Thu Feb 26 20:01:51 2004
From: revlists at canelasoftware.com (Mark Talluto)
Date: Thu, 26 Feb 2004 17:01:51 -0800
Subject: File associations in Panther
In-Reply-To: <403E6036.6010602@fourthworld.com>
References: <403E6036.6010602@fourthworld.com>
Message-ID: <871BD6BD-68C0-11D8-862F-000393C3F5BC@canelasoftware.com>


On Feb 26, 2004, at 1:08 PM, Richard Gaskin wrote:

> I'm using the same standalone building process I've used for the last 
> year, only now on Panther my standalones won't recognize my custom 
> document types.
>
> Also, when I modify the core engine name within the MacOS folder and 
> then edit my plist to match, in earlier versions of OS X this was how 
> I got the process name to match the bundle name, only in Jaguar the 
> same steps I'd used successfully before no longer work -- now the app 
> simply doesn't launch.
>
> Have any of you successfully assigned custom document types to a Rev 
> standalone under Panther w/ Rev 2.1?  If so, what are you doing 
> differently than you had done under Jaguar?

I sometimes have to stuff the standalone.  Then delete the original.  
Then unstuff to get it all to work again.  On really bad cases, I file 
transfer the standalone to another mac and then bring it back.  This 
always does the trick.

-- 
Best regards,
Mark Talluto
http://www.canelasoftware.com

From kray at sonsothunder.com  Thu Feb 26 20:05:54 2004
From: kray at sonsothunder.com (Ken Ray)
Date: Thu, 26 Feb 2004 19:05:54 -0600
Subject: The "Answer with dialog"
In-Reply-To: <D2D50738-68B5-11D8-9ABD-0030654C1E62@realtorsgroup.us>
Message-ID: <039601c3fccd$dd633ef0$6601a8c0@LightningFlash>

You can replace it - see the entry in the Transcript Dictionary under
"answer command".

Ken Ray
Sons of Thunder Software
Email: kray at sonsothunder.com
Web Site: http://www.sonsothunder.com/ 

> -----Original Message-----
> From: use-revolution-bounces at lists.runrev.com 
> [mailto:use-revolution-bounces at lists.runrev.com] On Behalf Of hershrev
> Sent: Thursday, February 26, 2004 5:45 PM
> To: use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> Subject: The "Answer with dialog"
> 
> 
> Hello,
> Is it possible to remove the "R"  from the "answer with" 
> dialog  ? Thanks hershrev
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com 
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-> revolution
> 



From kray at sonsothunder.com  Thu Feb 26 20:07:14 2004
From: kray at sonsothunder.com (Ken Ray)
Date: Thu, 26 Feb 2004 19:07:14 -0600
Subject: empty multiple fields
In-Reply-To: <3A9833BC-68BF-11D8-9ABD-0030654C1E62@realtorsgroup.us>
Message-ID: <039701c3fcce$0ca24710$6601a8c0@LightningFlash>

sure:

repeat with x = 1 to the number of flds
  put empty into fld x
end repeat

or, if they're all named similarly, like "DataHolder_1" through
"DataHolder_5", you can do:

repeat with x = 1 to the number of flds
  put empyt into fld ("DataHolder_" & x)
end repeat

HTH,

Ken Ray
Sons of Thunder Software
Email: kray at sonsothunder.com
Web Site: http://www.sonsothunder.com/ 

> -----Original Message-----
> From: use-revolution-bounces at lists.runrev.com 
> [mailto:use-revolution-bounces at lists.runrev.com] On Behalf Of hershrev
> Sent: Thursday, February 26, 2004 6:53 PM
> To: use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> Subject: empty multiple fields
> 
> 
> Hi everybody,
> is there a faster way to clear (empty) multiple fields then
> put empty in field"1"
> put empty in field"2"
> and so on ? to put all field names in Var and repeat for each line or 
> so?
> Thanks, hershrev.
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com 
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-> revolution
> 



From yoy at comcast.net  Thu Feb 26 20:12:05 2004
From: yoy at comcast.net (Andy Burns)
Date: Thu, 26 Feb 2004 20:12:05 -0500
Subject: Program Idea: Windows Outlook Express....
Message-ID: <000701c3fcce$b83f3b00$e8e02044@fatal>

Re-hi folks.

Outlook Express (Windows) has the option to delete emails. You can empty the
deleted items folder, but the deleted items "file" in the user's folder
still exists.

I have an alias to that folder and delete the "deleted items" file once a
day. It will recreate itself after you delete it and restart Outlook
Express.

My idea is to create a rev app that does this. I'm just twiddling my thumbs
and am wondering where to begin.

The issue is the various users on the computer/network and other things I
haven't thought about.

Mostly the reason for my idea is that since Outlook Express doesn't actually
delete this file, the potential email virii could be compromised by some
other email or other means of attack.

Is this project worthy of consideration?

Andy



---
Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
Version: 6.0.596 / Virus Database: 379 - Release Date: 2/26/2004


From 3mcgrath at adelphia.net  Thu Feb 26 20:12:48 2004
From: 3mcgrath at adelphia.net (Thomas McGrath III)
Date: Thu, 26 Feb 2004 20:12:48 -0500
Subject: disabled buttons
In-Reply-To: <BC63B6D8.52F1%pixelbird@interisland.net>
References: <BC63B6D8.52F1%pixelbird@interisland.net>
Message-ID: <0E842440-68C2-11D8-8D0D-000A95DA60FA@adelphia.net>

Ken,

On Feb 26, 2004, at 5:44 PM, Ken Norris wrote:

> Then you are saying you want a different altered state which is not
> disabled. Is that what you mean?
Yes that is what I meant. I figured it out by grouping another grayed 
out button over the group and vis/not vis. It works.

> My point is that you don't need to do that. Check the Icons and Border
> properties in the button's inspector. There are 5 (count'em) possible 
> button
> states in Rev, each of which can have it's own icon.
> Yep, but for the life of me I cannot figure out why you can't set up a
> button with different states to do what you want.
I might be missing something here (I hope) but I need to have the 
graphic image 1(button up) with icon 1(cute picture) over it (that is 
two button states at the same time). Then when pushed the graphic image 
1(button up) is switched to graphic image 2 (button down) and still has 
the icon 1(cute picture) over it but down to the right - following the 
behavior of a normal button that has that large of a gradated shadow. 
Again these button MUST match the ones used in the hardware device so I 
have no control over the behavior I need.

So, I feel I need two buttons - one has two states (button up and 
button down) and the other has cute icon 1 that moves when the whole 
group is pressed. Boy if I didn't need the two buttons that would be 
great.
AHH but here is the clincher - I ALSO need the button 
semi-quazi-disabled (disabled but take messages to reset the system)

So NOW I have thee buttons in one group and they do what I need. But it 
is bulky...........

Also, I scripted it so that no buttons or groups have any scripts in 
them and all buttons are controlled via a card script.

I uploaded a new stack to show what it looks like:

go URL "http://users.adelphia.net/~3mcgrath/Buttons.rev"

Thanks ken for sticking with me on this -

I am about to ask you to show me with my own buttons how to accomplish 
what these buttons do.

But not yet :-}

Tom

Thomas J. McGrath III
SCS
1000 Killarney Dr.
Pittsburgh, PA 15234
412-885-8541

From squance at elkvalley.net  Thu Feb 26 20:15:52 2004
From: squance at elkvalley.net (David Squance)
Date: Thu, 26 Feb 2004 18:15:52 -0700
Subject: Printing problem
In-Reply-To: <403E45F3.3080306@hyperactivesw.com>
References: <l0313031fbc6337325d0f@[192.168.1.100]>
 <403D6BFB.2090407@hyperactivesw.com>
 <l03130316bc62c3179bbe@[192.168.1.100]>
 <l0313030cbc38d03efeeb@[192.168.1.100]>
 <l03130316bc62c3179bbe@[192.168.1.100]>
 <l0313031fbc6337325d0f@[192.168.1.100]>
Message-ID: <l03130321bc644822a4d7@[192.168.1.100]>

>On 2/25/04 11:43 PM, David Squance wrote:
>>
>> Well, I remembered a short while ago seeing in the docs that an area of a
>> card can be specified for printing, eg 0,0 to 500,300 (or the mouseloc, in
>> their example).  So I dumped the mask button and tried that.  No joy.  Any
>> more suggestions gratefully received.
>
>Have you tried isolating the problem to see if it is the printer driver
>or actually the stack? I guess the next thing I'd try is to print to a
>PDF file. If that works, then it would be the print driver causing the
>hang.
>
>You'll have to show the print dialog to print to PDF, if your scipt
>isn't doing that already.
>
>How about other stacks? Can you print from one of those okay?

I tried printing a card from the previous project [the one you'd helped me
with the cloning problem] and had the same problem.  This is a recent
problem.  I printed successfully from both projects until a couple of days
ago.  I haven't tested printing with another printer or on a different
computer/platform since the hang up probem started.  I don't know how to
set things to print to a pdf file.  My printer driver (all I get with the
'answer printer' command) has very little control. (It's an Epson 740i and
I can't even select black and white).  The page setup only appears to be
available when printing fields.  Printing cards is not mentioned in the
docs under 'revShowPrintDialog'.  I don't have any problem printing from
other apps, though most of them are classic, and the dialog is much better
(IMHO).
Dave



From revolution at jaedworks.com  Thu Feb 26 20:22:27 2004
From: revolution at jaedworks.com (Jeanne A. E. DeVoto)
Date: Thu, 26 Feb 2004 17:22:27 -0800
Subject: The "Answer with dialog"
In-Reply-To: <D2D50738-68B5-11D8-9ABD-0030654C1E62@realtorsgroup.us>
References: <D2D50738-68B5-11D8-9ABD-0030654C1E62@realtorsgroup.us>
Message-ID: <p0601028bbc644be45ab6@[10.0.1.8]>

At 6:45 PM -0500 2/26/2004, hershrev wrote:
>Hello,
>Is it possible to remove the "R"  from the "answer with" dialog  ?

You can set your own icon: see the gRevAppIcon and gRevSmallAppIcon keywords.

If you put empty into these global variables, you get no icon at all.
-- 
jeanne a. e. devoto ~ jaed at jaedworks.com
http://www.jaedworks.com

From yoy at comcast.net  Thu Feb 26 20:35:02 2004
From: yoy at comcast.net (Andy Burns)
Date: Thu, 26 Feb 2004 20:35:02 -0500
Subject: Program Idea: Windows Outlook Express.... correction: see ***
	... ***
References: <000701c3fcce$b83f3b00$e8e02044@fatal>
Message-ID: <001001c3fcd2$4b568940$e8e02044@fatal>

Correction:

> Mostly the reason for my idea is that since Outlook Express doesn't
actually
> delete this file, *** it *** could be compromised by some
> other *** malicious *** email or other means of attack.

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Andy Burns" <yoy at comcast.net>
To: <use-revolution at lists.runrev.com>
Sent: Thursday, February 26, 2004 8:12 PM
Subject: Program Idea: Windows Outlook Express....


> Re-hi folks.
>
> Outlook Express (Windows) has the option to delete emails. You can empty
the
> deleted items folder, but the deleted items "file" in the user's folder
> still exists.
>
> I have an alias to that folder and delete the "deleted items" file once a
> day. It will recreate itself after you delete it and restart Outlook
> Express.
>
> My idea is to create a rev app that does this. I'm just twiddling my
thumbs
> and am wondering where to begin.
>
> The issue is the various users on the computer/network and other things I
> haven't thought about.
>
> Mostly the reason for my idea is that since Outlook Express doesn't
actually
> delete this file, the potential email virii could be compromised by some
> other email or other means of attack.
>
> Is this project worthy of consideration?
>
> Andy



---
Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
Version: 6.0.596 / Virus Database: 379 - Release Date: 2/26/2004


From wouter.abraham at pi.be  Thu Feb 26 20:53:08 2004
From: wouter.abraham at pi.be (Wouter)
Date: Fri, 27 Feb 2004 02:53:08 +0100
Subject: custom buttons
In-Reply-To: <20040226225740.312A5930092@mail.runrev.com>
References: <20040226225740.312A5930092@mail.runrev.com>
Message-ID: <B11BF33E-68C7-11D8-994C-003065CC999E@pi.be>


On 26 Feb 2004, at 23:57, use-revolution-request at lists.runrev.com wrote:

> Message: 10
> Date: Thu, 26 Feb 2004 14:52:05 -0800
> From: Ken Norris <pixelbird at interisland.net>
> Subject: Re: custom buttons
> To: <use-revolution at lists.runrev.com>
> Message-ID: <BC63B895.52F2%pixelbird at interisland.net>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
>
> Hello Wouter,
>
>> Date: Thu, 26 Feb 2004 14:40:15 +0100
>> From: Wouter <wouter.abraham at pi.be>
>> Subject: Re: custom buttons
>
>> Another possible buttonscript.
>>
>> local lOldLoc   ### or make custom properties upPos and downPos
>> on mousedown
>> put the loc of me into lOldLoc
> .....etc.
> ------------
> Just so you know, the script you presented works, but as regards 
> buttons, is
> 26 lines of code that does exactly the same thing as setting img id's 
> in the
> Icons and Borders property.
>
> ...But you might want to use it for switching graphic images.
>
> Ken N.
>
>

Hi Ken,

Yep it works and even makes the button react like the "normal" buttons 
do.
Meaning normal buttons change to "up"  and "down" states when the mouse 
leaves
or reenters the rect of the button when the mouse button is kept down.
The other code does not. But may be this is intentional and it is all 
up to the taste of
the developer.
Thanks for mentioning though.

Greetings,
WA



From pixelbird at interisland.net  Thu Feb 26 21:16:34 2004
From: pixelbird at interisland.net (Ken Norris)
Date: Thu, 26 Feb 2004 18:16:34 -0800
Subject: disabled buttons
In-Reply-To: <20040226225739.C29FA93008E@mail.runrev.com>
Message-ID: <BC63E882.52F9%pixelbird@interisland.net>

P.S. Correction,

> Date: Thu, 26 Feb 2004 14:44:40 -0800
> From: Ken Norris <pixelbird at interisland.net>
> Subject: Re: disabled buttons

> OTOH, any button automatically records if it has been clicked, and sets a
> visitedIcon which tells the user it has been clicked a least once, then if
> the user clicks it again:
------------
........That is, IF you have a visitedicon in the Icon props.

Ken N.


From sarahr at genesearch.com.au  Thu Feb 26 21:33:29 2004
From: sarahr at genesearch.com.au (Sarah Reichelt)
Date: Fri, 27 Feb 2004 12:33:29 +1000
Subject: International calendar
Message-ID: <53D7EC56-68CD-11D8-AC3C-0003937A97B8@genesearch.com.au>

As some of you already know, I have made a calendar stack to allow 
graphical date entries and avoid any problems with differing date 
formats. Dom very kindly translated it into French for me, but after 
looking at his changes, I think that I can make it automatically 
international IF the system monthNames and system weekdayNames are 
correct for each language. If your system uses a language other than 
English, please could you reply to this email directly i.e. not to the 
list, answering the following questions:

1. What language does your system use?
2. What operating system do you use?
3. Does "the system monthNames" give you the correct month names for 
your language?
4. Does "the abbrev system monthNames" give you the correct month 
abbreviations for your language?
5. Does "the system weekdayNames" give you the correct day names for 
your language?
6. Does "the abbrev system weekdayNames" give you the correct day name 
abbreviations for your language?
7. If you look at the first 2 characters only of each line in "the 
abbrev system weekdayNames", does that correctly identify each day?
8. Do you start your week on Sunday or Monday?
9. Would you like me to email you a copy of the stack when it's 
finished?

Thanks very much,
Sarah
sarahr at genesearch.com.au
http://www.troz.net/Rev/


From johnrule at rcsprogramming.com  Thu Feb 26 21:42:05 2004
From: johnrule at rcsprogramming.com (John Rule)
Date: Thu, 26 Feb 2004 18:42:05 -0800
Subject: Changing image color
References: <20040226225739.E05DE930091@mail.runrev.com>
Message-ID: <001401c3fcdb$4a09f5f0$8201000a@minipcxp>

Is there a way to change the color (RGB) of an image in RunRev? Not a
graphic, but an imported gif, jpeg, png, etc. I have looked at some of the
'painting' methods, but that will not work (it would be nice to be able to
use all of those ink methods though)...I think I need to actually change the
bits in the imagedata, but maybe there is an existing way to do this?

Thanks,
JR


From dsc at swcp.com  Thu Feb 26 21:53:31 2004
From: dsc at swcp.com (Dar Scott)
Date: Thu, 26 Feb 2004 19:53:31 -0700
Subject: Changing image color
In-Reply-To: <001401c3fcdb$4a09f5f0$8201000a@minipcxp>
Message-ID: <209CCE31-68D0-11D8-9612-000A9567A3E6@swcp.com>


On Thursday, February 26, 2004, at 07:42 PM, John Rule wrote:

> graphic, but an imported gif, jpeg, png, etc. I have looked at some of 
> the
> 'painting' methods, but that will not work (it would be nice to be 
> able to
> use all of those ink methods though)...I think I need to actually 
> change the
> bits in the imagedata, but maybe there is an existing way to do this?

Look at imageData and maybe alphaData.  Coordinate those with the width 
and height.  Look at bugzilla entries for bugs.

Dar Scott


From ambassador at fourthworld.com  Thu Feb 26 22:08:52 2004
From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin)
Date: Thu, 26 Feb 2004 19:08:52 -0800
Subject: Changing image color
In-Reply-To: <001401c3fcdb$4a09f5f0$8201000a@minipcxp>
References: <20040226225739.E05DE930091@mail.runrev.com>
	<001401c3fcdb$4a09f5f0$8201000a@minipcxp>
Message-ID: <403EB4C4.7050801@fourthworld.com>

John Rule wrote:

> Is there a way to change the color (RGB) of an image in RunRev? Not a
> graphic, but an imported gif, jpeg, png, etc. I have looked at some of the
> 'painting' methods, but that will not work (it would be nice to be able to
> use all of those ink methods though)...I think I need to actually change the
> bits in the imagedata, but maybe there is an existing way to do this?

I you just need to apply a tint you might like the effect you get when 
you place a colored graphic over an image and set the graphic's ink to 
blend.

-- 
  Richard Gaskin
  Fourth World Media Corporation
  ___________________________________________________________
  Ambassador at FourthWorld.com       http://www.FourthWorld.com

From hershbp at realtorsgroup.us  Thu Feb 26 22:26:08 2004
From: hershbp at realtorsgroup.us (hershrev)
Date: Thu, 26 Feb 2004 22:26:08 -0500
Subject: empty multiple fields
In-Reply-To: <039701c3fcce$0ca24710$6601a8c0@LightningFlash>
Message-ID: <AEB0AA68-68D4-11D8-9ABD-0030654C1E62@realtorsgroup.us>

Thanks, Ken
On Thursday, February 26, 2004, at 08:07 PM, Ken Ray wrote:

> sure:
>
> repeat with x = 1 to the number of flds
>   put empty into fld x
> end repeat
>
> or, if they're all named similarly, like "DataHolder_1" through
> "DataHolder_5", you can do:
>
> repeat with x = 1 to the number of flds
>   put empyt into fld ("DataHolder_" & x)
> end repeat
>
> HTH,
>
> Ken Ray
> Sons of Thunder Software
> Email: kray at sonsothunder.com
> Web Site: http://www.sonsothunder.com/
>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: use-revolution-bounces at lists.runrev.com
>> [mailto:use-revolution-bounces at lists.runrev.com] On Behalf Of hershrev
>> Sent: Thursday, February 26, 2004 6:53 PM
>> To: use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
>> Subject: empty multiple fields
>>
>>
>> Hi everybody,
>> is there a faster way to clear (empty) multiple fields then
>> put empty in field"1"
>> put empty in field"2"
>> and so on ? to put all field names in Var and repeat for each line or
>> so?
>> Thanks, hershrev.
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> use-revolution mailing list
>> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-> revolution
>>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>


From hershbp at realtorsgroup.us  Thu Feb 26 22:37:44 2004
From: hershbp at realtorsgroup.us (hershrev)
Date: Thu, 26 Feb 2004 22:37:44 -0500
Subject: The "Answer with dialog"
In-Reply-To: <039601c3fccd$dd633ef0$6601a8c0@LightningFlash>
Message-ID: <4DC7E510-68D6-11D8-9ABD-0030654C1E62@realtorsgroup.us>


On Thursday, February 26, 2004, at 08:05 PM, Ken Ray wrote:

> You can replace it - see the entry in the Transcript Dictionary under
> "answer command".
Yes I saw it but ....
my script "answer  "abc" with "yes" or "no""
the "R" shows. and also if I want to put a title how do I  do that ?
>
> Ken Ray
> Sons of Thunder Software
> Email: kray at sonsothunder.com
> Web Site: http://www.sonsothunder.com/
>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: use-revolution-bounces at lists.runrev.com
>> [mailto:use-revolution-bounces at lists.runrev.com] On Behalf Of hershrev
>> Sent: Thursday, February 26, 2004 5:45 PM
>> To: use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
>> Subject: The "Answer with dialog"
>>
>>
>> Hello,
>> Is it possible to remove the "R"  from the "answer with"
>> dialog  ? Thanks hershrev
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> use-revolution mailing list
>> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-> revolution
>>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>


From squance at elkvalley.net  Thu Feb 26 22:54:11 2004
From: squance at elkvalley.net (David Squance)
Date: Thu, 26 Feb 2004 20:54:11 -0700
Subject: Printing problem
In-Reply-To: <l03130321bc644822a4d7@[192.168.1.100]>
References: <403E45F3.3080306@hyperactivesw.com>
 <l0313031fbc6337325d0f@[192.168.1.100]>
 <403D6BFB.2090407@hyperactivesw.com>
 <l03130316bc62c3179bbe@[192.168.1.100]>
 <l0313030cbc38d03efeeb@[192.168.1.100]>
 <l03130316bc62c3179bbe@[192.168.1.100]>
 <l0313031fbc6337325d0f@[192.168.1.100]>
Message-ID: <l03130326bc646e80c405@[192.168.1.100]>

>>On 2/25/04 11:43 PM, David Squance wrote:
>>>
>>> Well, I remembered a short while ago seeing in the docs that an area of a
>>> card can be specified for printing, eg 0,0 to 500,300 (or the mouseloc, in
>>> their example).  So I dumped the mask button and tried that.  No joy.  Any
>>> more suggestions gratefully received.
>>
>>Have you tried isolating the problem to see if it is the printer driver
>>or actually the stack? I guess the next thing I'd try is to print to a
>>PDF file. If that works, then it would be the print driver causing the
>>hang.
>>
>>You'll have to show the print dialog to print to PDF, if your scipt
>>isn't doing that already.
>>
>>How about other stacks? Can you print from one of those okay?
>
>I tried printing a card from the previous project [the one you'd helped me
>with the cloning problem] and had the same problem.  This is a recent
>problem.  I printed successfully from both projects until a couple of days
>ago.  I haven't tested printing with another printer or on a different
>computer/platform since the hang up probem started.  I don't know how to
>set things to print to a pdf file.  My printer driver (all I get with the
>'answer printer' command) has very little control. (It's an Epson 740i and
>I can't even select black and white).  The page setup only appears to be
>available when printing fields.  Printing cards is not mentioned in the
>docs under 'revShowPrintDialog'.  I don't have any problem printing from
>other apps, though most of them are classic, and the dialog is much better
>(IMHO).
>Dave

Hi again,
Sorry for being so thick on the print dialog.  I guess I just haven't cared
enough to check all the  options in the Jaguar version of the driver for my
printer.  I see now how to do some of that--like the pdf and b/w.  However,
it may be that it is OS 10.3.2 which is the root of the problem, because I
downloaded a classic copy of Rev (also 2.1.2) and it printed without
crashing.  Odd.  Now I'm curious if a windows build under OS9 will give me
Courier fonts on printing.  Will test it Friday or Saturday.
Dave



From hershbp at realtorsgroup.us  Thu Feb 26 22:54:27 2004
From: hershbp at realtorsgroup.us (hershrev)
Date: Thu, 26 Feb 2004 22:54:27 -0500
Subject: OpenBase Db
Message-ID: <A3DA0FFC-68D8-11D8-9ABD-0030654C1E62@realtorsgroup.us>

Hi to all
May I suggest a direct connection to the OpenBase db's ?
it's very inexpensive, cross-platform, easy install, easy to use, fast 
, good credentials ,good features, web capable and very powerful. Well 
not as PostgreSQL but can be installed, bundled as a commercial 
package. and many years around.
if not so , please enlighten me.
Thanks, hershrev


From hershbp at realtorsgroup.us  Thu Feb 26 23:36:51 2004
From: hershbp at realtorsgroup.us (hershrev)
Date: Thu, 26 Feb 2004 23:36:51 -0500
Subject: The "Answer with dialog"
In-Reply-To: <p0601028bbc644be45ab6@[10.0.1.8]>
Message-ID: <8FD897E5-68DE-11D8-9ABD-0030654C1E62@realtorsgroup.us>


On Thursday, February 26, 2004, at 08:22 PM, Jeanne A. E. DeVoto wrote:

> At 6:45 PM -0500 2/26/2004, hershrev wrote:
>> Hello,
>> Is it possible to remove the "R"  from the "answer with" dialog  ?
>
> You can set your own icon: see the gRevAppIcon and gRevSmallAppIcon 
> keywords.
>
> If you put empty into these global variables, you get no icon at all.
This is the error I get;
      	compiling at 11:31:37 PM
Type	Handler: bad command
Object	Button 1
Line	answer gRevAppIcon "testing" with "ok"
Hint	testing  or

      	compiling at 11:34:11 PM
Type	Script: missing '"' after literal
Object	Button 1
Line	answer gRevAppIcon testing with "ok"
Hint	ok


global gRevAppIcon
on mouseUp
   put  empty into gRevAppIcon
   answer gRevAppIcon testing with "ok"--- depends if I put quotes 
around the word "testing"
end mouseUp

the only way I could this working is with a comma after the global , 
but then the comma shows.
on a mac. osX 10.2.8
or maybe my syntax is wrong, then how do you write it ?
Thanks , hershrev

> jeanne a. e. devoto ~ jaed at jaedworks.com
> http://www.jaedworks.com
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>


From chipp at chipp.com  Fri Feb 27 00:10:51 2004
From: chipp at chipp.com (Chipp Walters)
Date: Thu, 26 Feb 2004 23:10:51 -0600
Subject: Important question regarding next major Rev version
In-Reply-To: <7853526.1077837793712.JavaMail.valetia@mac.com>
References: <7853526.1077837793712.JavaMail.valetia@mac.com>
Message-ID: <403ED15B.7000305@chipp.com>


> Right now, we have a number of apps just waiting in the wings to be released,
> and they work just fine, transcript can handle everything without problems,
> but we do not want to spoil our reputation by putting up something that can't
> even display standard UI elements properly.

Just curious, what type of applications do you have which are able to be 
deployed but you're embarrassed by the GUI? Perhaps if you show some of 
us, we can offer you advice on how to create a more professional 
interface. That way you can release your applications and generate some 
revenue, which I'm sure is a priority for your company.

While native look and feel is certainly important at times, it is not 
mandatory for commercial success. Just look at all of the video editing 
programs on the shelves at your local computer store. None (ZERO) use 
the standard look and feel.

In fact one of the biggest offenders on XP regarding non-standard 
controls and look-and-feel, is Microsoft (Apple does the same on the Mac).

Human Interface Guidelines are just that -- guidelines. Apple pioneered 
them in the early days for those developers who knew nothing of GUI and 
for users so they could be comfortable and more quickly understand how 
to use an application. That has changed.

Now, with web applications and Flash front-ends on websites, along with 
the myriad of multimedia, edutainment and gaming interfaces, users are 
*smarter* and no longer need be handheld. In fact, many people enjoy 
different interfaces. I remeber when Kai Krause brought out some of 
MetaCreations products. They were a precursor to some of the alpha 
effects adopted later by Apple, and very interesting to use.

One of the tests of great designers is being able to design within a set 
of given constraints. While you may find it difficult, I'm sure others 
here would be glad to lend a hand in helping you create professional 
interfaces.

> Again, that is why many are calling RR a toy, even though it is not so. It is
> time to put a stop to that. Not only does it hurt RR's reputation and
> bottomline, it's also holding back many developers...

Val, this is the first time I've heard RR referred to as a 'toy.' Can 
you provide any links or print references for this? I would certainly 
like to have the chance to offer a rebuttle to those authors.

Also, for the many other developers being held back please speak up as I 
would be more than happy to lend a hand in helping create a more 
professional appearance GUI (until support for XP themes is released).

-Chipp


From jacque at hyperactivesw.com  Fri Feb 27 00:11:51 2004
From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay)
Date: Thu, 26 Feb 2004 23:11:51 -0600
Subject: Selection strategies
In-Reply-To: <403E6EF6.1080903@fourthworld.com>
References: <403E6EF6.1080903@fourthworld.com>
Message-ID: <403ED197.1000304@hyperactivesw.com>

On 2/26/04 4:11 PM, Richard Gaskin wrote:

> I'm making a toolbar in a palette window which modifies text in a field 
> in a toplevel stack.  I find that when text is selected in the field the 
> palette buttons work great, but if the cursor is inserted with no 
> selection then clicking in the palette window causes the field to lose 
> focus.
> 
> Any of you know how to make that work?
> 

Looks like a bug to me. The palette sees the selectedField as empty when 
no word is selcted, even if the insertion point is placed. There should 
be a value in both cases, I think.

I couldn't get it to work.
-- 
Jacqueline Landman Gay         |     jacque at hyperactivesw.com
HyperActive Software           |     http://www.hyperactivesw.com

From 3mcgrath at adelphia.net  Fri Feb 27 00:11:53 2004
From: 3mcgrath at adelphia.net (Thomas McGrath III)
Date: Fri, 27 Feb 2004 00:11:53 -0500
Subject: New Reference Control, All images in folder
Message-ID: <74A4CBDB-68E3-11D8-8D0D-000A95DA60FA@adelphia.net>

I just discovered the -  New Reference Control - All images in 
folder...... menu item.

Well, It is terrible. I just referenced a folder of 500 images and not 
one of them were imported with the reference path to them.
SO after thinking it was a great thing and then quitting and reopening 
my stack in REV they are all blank......

What kind of folder import as "reference" would not include the dam 
"reference"

I had to delete every one of them which REV took almost four minutes 
just to select them all. Then another few minutes to delete them and 
then REV crashed.

I had to do it again. Crash....

Finally I deleted them all.

Is this known???

If so, why didn't you tell me?

Tom

Macintosh PowerBook G-4 OSX 10.3.1, OS 9.2.2, 1.25 GHz, 512MB RAM, Rev 
2.1.2


Advanced Media Group
Thomas J McGrath III	? 2003 ?	3mcgrath at adelphia.net
220 Drake Road, Bethel Park, PA 15102



From chipp at chipp.com  Fri Feb 27 00:21:07 2004
From: chipp at chipp.com (Chipp Walters)
Date: Thu, 26 Feb 2004 23:21:07 -0600
Subject: The "Answer with dialog"
In-Reply-To: <8FD897E5-68DE-11D8-9ABD-0030654C1E62@realtorsgroup.us>
References: <8FD897E5-68DE-11D8-9ABD-0030654C1E62@realtorsgroup.us>
Message-ID: <403ED3C3.7030000@chipp.com>

global gRevAppIcon
on mouseUp
    --only need to do this once, in an openStack handler
    put empty into gRevAppIcon
    answer "it works now!" with "ok"
end mouseUp


From kray at sonsothunder.com  Fri Feb 27 00:31:41 2004
From: kray at sonsothunder.com (Ken Ray)
Date: Thu, 26 Feb 2004 23:31:41 -0600
Subject: New Reference Control, All images in folder
In-Reply-To: <74A4CBDB-68E3-11D8-8D0D-000A95DA60FA@adelphia.net>
Message-ID: <03c901c3fcf2$fe349550$6601a8c0@LightningFlash>

Tom,

This is a bug and you should log it into Bugzilla as so. No one told you
probably because no one else had used it (or if they had, they didn't
post to the list). 

However there's a lot easier way to delete all the images on a card.
Forget selecting them, you can use the message box:

  repeat with x = 1 to the number of images;delete image 1;end repeat

(remember that it will delete *all* the images on a card!)

Ken Ray
Sons of Thunder Software
Email: kray at sonsothunder.com
Web Site: http://www.sonsothunder.com/ 

> -----Original Message-----
> From: use-revolution-bounces at lists.runrev.com 
> [mailto:use-revolution-bounces at lists.runrev.com] On Behalf Of 
> Thomas McGrath III
> Sent: Thursday, February 26, 2004 11:12 PM
> To: How to use Revolution
> Subject: New Reference Control, All images in folder
> 
> 
> I just discovered the -  New Reference Control - All images in 
> folder...... menu item.
> 
> Well, It is terrible. I just referenced a folder of 500 
> images and not 
> one of them were imported with the reference path to them.
> SO after thinking it was a great thing and then quitting and 
> reopening 
> my stack in REV they are all blank......
> 
> What kind of folder import as "reference" would not include the dam 
> "reference"
> 
> I had to delete every one of them which REV took almost four minutes 
> just to select them all. Then another few minutes to delete them and 
> then REV crashed.
> 
> I had to do it again. Crash....
> 
> Finally I deleted them all.
> 
> Is this known???
> 
> If so, why didn't you tell me?
> 
> Tom
> 
> Macintosh PowerBook G-4 OSX 10.3.1, OS 9.2.2, 1.25 GHz, 512MB 
> RAM, Rev 
> 2.1.2
> 
> 
> Advanced Media Group
> Thomas J McGrath III	. 2003 .	3mcgrath at adelphia.net
> 220 Drake Road, Bethel Park, PA 15102
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com 
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-> revolution
> 



From chipp at chipp.com  Fri Feb 27 00:45:45 2004
From: chipp at chipp.com (Chipp Walters)
Date: Thu, 26 Feb 2004 23:45:45 -0600
Subject: New Reference Control, All images in folder
In-Reply-To: <74A4CBDB-68E3-11D8-8D0D-000A95DA60FA@adelphia.net>
References: <74A4CBDB-68E3-11D8-8D0D-000A95DA60FA@adelphia.net>
Message-ID: <403ED989.8040602@chipp.com>

Thomas,

Don't worry, we'll get this figured out. Soundls like you haven't used 
referenced images and filepaths before?

Also, there are known limitations regarding selecting large number of 
objects inside the Rev IDE. That is probably why it's crashing.

I tried it on my WinXP machine and it worked exactly as expected. Some 
notes:

1) It will attempt to create a linked img for each file (whether it is a 
valid image file or not, so make sure and have your folder contain ONLY 
images and no other type of file.

2) As it says, it creates only references to images. To see where the 
reference is expected, open the properties palette for an image and 
check the filename property; OR

select an image
then type into the message box

put the filename of the selectedObject

If there is no filename associated then you used the
Import as Control-> All images in folder
instead of
New Referenced Control-> All images in folder

3) Important Note: the filename is relative to the defaultFolder path. 
So, if you want to make sure they link up correctly, then be sure and 
set the defaultFolder *before* opening the stack.

Create a new stack with a single button and set the script to:

on mouseUp
   answer folder "Choose a defaultFolder path"
   if it is empty then exit to top
   set the defaultfolder to it
end mouseUp

Now open your folder and you will see the images.

best,

Chipp


From jacque at hyperactivesw.com  Fri Feb 27 00:48:23 2004
From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay)
Date: Thu, 26 Feb 2004 23:48:23 -0600
Subject: Printing problem
In-Reply-To: <l03130321bc644822a4d7@[192.168.1.100]>
References: <l0313031fbc6337325d0f@[192.168.1.100]>
	<403D6BFB.2090407@hyperactivesw.com> <l03130316bc62c3179bbe@[192.168.1.100]>
	<l0313030cbc38d03efeeb@[192.168.1.100]>
	<l03130316bc62c3179bbe@[192.168.1.100]>
	<l0313031fbc6337325d0f@[192.168.1.100]>
	<l03130321bc644822a4d7@[192.168.1.100]>
Message-ID: <403EDA27.5020900@hyperactivesw.com>

On 2/26/04 7:15 PM, David Squance wrote:

> I tried printing a card from the previous project [the one you'd helped me
> with the cloning problem] and had the same problem.  This is a recent
> problem.  I printed successfully from both projects until a couple of days
> ago.  I haven't tested printing with another printer or on a different
> computer/platform since the hang up probem started.

That sounds like the next step if a pdf doesn't work.

> I don't know how to
> set things to print to a pdf file.

Try this:

open printing with dialog
print this card
close printing

In the dialog that appears, there is a button at the bottom that says 
"Print to PDF". Click that and it will print to a file on disk instead 
of to your printer. If this works and you get a successful printout, 
then chances are there is something about your print driver that doesn't 
like printing stacks.

> My printer driver (all I get with the
> 'answer printer' command) has very little control. (It's an Epson 740i and
> I can't even select black and white).  The page setup only appears to be
> available when printing fields.  Printing cards is not mentioned in the
> docs under 'revShowPrintDialog'.  I don't have any problem printing from
> other apps, though most of them are classic, and the dialog is much better
> (IMHO).

The above script gives the dialog I think you mean. Have you changed 
printers or updated the driver since the problem started? How about the 
version of Rev you are using; did you recently change to the OS X 
version from the classic version? Do you have OS X drivers installed for 
the Epson, or just the classic drivers?

-- 
Jacqueline Landman Gay         |     jacque at hyperactivesw.com
HyperActive Software           |     http://www.hyperactivesw.com

From squance at elkvalley.net  Fri Feb 27 01:22:16 2004
From: squance at elkvalley.net (David Squance)
Date: Thu, 26 Feb 2004 23:22:16 -0700
Subject: Printing problem
In-Reply-To: <403EDA27.5020900@hyperactivesw.com>
References: <l03130321bc644822a4d7@[192.168.1.100]>
 <l0313031fbc6337325d0f@[192.168.1.100]>
 <403D6BFB.2090407@hyperactivesw.com>
 <l03130316bc62c3179bbe@[192.168.1.100]>
 <l0313030cbc38d03efeeb@[192.168.1.100]>
 <l03130316bc62c3179bbe@[192.168.1.100]>
 <l0313031fbc6337325d0f@[192.168.1.100]>
 <l03130321bc644822a4d7@[192.168.1.100]>
Message-ID: <l03130329bc6490b183ff@[192.168.1.100]>

>
>open printing with dialog
>print this card
>close printing
>
>In the dialog that appears, there is a button at the bottom that says
>"Print to PDF". Click that and it will print to a file on disk instead
>of to your printer. If this works and you get a successful printout,
>then chances are there is something about your print driver that doesn't
>like printing stacks.

This worked.  I got a pdf file and it didn't freeze.

>The above script gives the dialog I think you mean. Have you changed
>printers or updated the driver since the problem started?

No.

>How about the version of Rev you are using; did you recently change to the
>OS X
>version from the classic version? Do you have OS X drivers installed for
>the Epson, or just the classic drivers?

No recent changes, and I'm sure I loaded the OS X driver when I upgraded
from OS 9.  I don't think I'd get the OS X dialog without it.  It's totally
different from the OS 9.  However, I'll download a new one and reinstall.
Thanks so much, Jacque.  You've been very helpful (and patient.)
Dave



From bfr at nwlink.com  Fri Feb 27 01:22:37 2004
From: bfr at nwlink.com (Bruce Robertson)
Date: Thu, 26 Feb 2004 22:22:37 -0800
Subject: Trying to buy Dan's book
In-Reply-To: <622A2B28-5E35-11D8-BFA4-000A959D005E@earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <BC64222D.1E810%bfr@nwlink.com>

>> 
> I've been trying for several days to buy the downloadable
> (electronic/PDF) version of Dan Shafer's book but cannot find a link
> that takes me to where it is available.  All links I have found are for
> the hardcopy version which is  a) not immediately available and b) more
> expensive.


And c) says it comes with a CD but it doesn't. I've brought this up with
Runrev and they're looking into it.


From 3mcgrath at adelphia.net  Fri Feb 27 02:41:42 2004
From: 3mcgrath at adelphia.net (Thomas McGrath III)
Date: Fri, 27 Feb 2004 02:41:42 -0500
Subject: New Reference Control, All images in folder
In-Reply-To: <403ED989.8040602@chipp.com>
References: <74A4CBDB-68E3-11D8-8D0D-000A95DA60FA@adelphia.net>
	<403ED989.8040602@chipp.com>
Message-ID: <62F7F43C-68F8-11D8-8D0D-000A95DA60FA@adelphia.net>

Chipp,
Thanks for your reply,

Actually I just finished a project with over 520 referenced full sized 
png exports from Powerpoint. But that was developed through a loading 
scheme that I used in 105 button links. So I put in the file path 
corrections to the final folder structure of the finished CD via 
scripting and allowed for development path and for distribution path 
and everything works great in that project.

What I had not used before was the 'auto' loading of a folder via the 
reference control menu. It does not work here on OSX 3.2.

And yes i did use the right one because after closing and reopening all 
references are lost. The images are grayed out and not just blank. If 
they were blank it would mean a lost path(I've done that before) but 
these are gray and have no path. I just went and used the other Import 
(non-referenced) images by folder and the images of course work. But 
now I have over 400 images on my card. I turned them all invisible for 
now. Later I will have to write my own import script.

I just tried this again and it still will not include any reference 
path in the file path and once closed and reopened the images go gray. 
This is not a path problem as in it is looking for a wrong path. It is 
a lack of path problem and once closed and reopened has no path to load 
the reference with. But if I import as control than the image is placed 
on the card just fine. That is too much overhead though and I will need 
to write my own import function to get my images in. In the end there 
will be over 2000 referenced images and I do want them referenced.

Lastly I have a few other images that I did not want to delete so 
selecting the 'bad' images was the logical choice. I did not expect it 
to crash by selecting them and then choosing the menu to cut them.

Jac has requested this as a bugzilla and I agree. As reference it did 
not include references. And selecting them causes a crash. This is 
repeatable and proven here and now twice by me.
On Feb 27, 2004, at 12:45 AM, Chipp Walters wrote:

> Thomas,
>
> Don't worry, we'll get this figured out. Soundls like you haven't used 
> referenced images and filepaths before?
>
> Also, there are known limitations regarding selecting large number of 
> objects inside the Rev IDE. That is probably why it's crashing.
>
> I tried it on my WinXP machine and it worked exactly as expected. Some 
> notes:
>
> 1) It will attempt to create a linked img for each file (whether it is 
> a valid image file or not, so make sure and have your folder contain 
> ONLY images and no other type of file.
>
> 2) As it says, it creates only references to images. To see where the 
> reference is expected, open the properties palette for an image and 
> check the filename property; OR
>
> select an image
> then type into the message box
>
> put the filename of the selectedObject
>
> If there is no filename associated then you used the
> Import as Control-> All images in folder
> instead of
> New Referenced Control-> All images in folder
>
> 3) Important Note: the filename is relative to the defaultFolder path. 
> So, if you want to make sure they link up correctly, then be sure and 
> set the defaultFolder *before* opening the stack.
>
> Create a new stack with a single button and set the script to:
>
> on mouseUp
>   answer folder "Choose a defaultFolder path"
>   if it is empty then exit to top
>   set the defaultfolder to it
> end mouseUp
>
> Now open your folder and you will see the images.
>
> best,
>
> Chipp
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>
>

Thomas J. McGrath III
SCS
1000 Killarney Dr.
Pittsburgh, PA 15234
412-885-8541


From 3mcgrath at adelphia.net  Fri Feb 27 02:44:07 2004
From: 3mcgrath at adelphia.net (Thomas McGrath III)
Date: Fri, 27 Feb 2004 02:44:07 -0500
Subject: New Reference Control, All images in folder
In-Reply-To: <03c901c3fcf2$fe349550$6601a8c0@LightningFlash>
References: <03c901c3fcf2$fe349550$6601a8c0@LightningFlash>
Message-ID: <B93831D2-68F8-11D8-8D0D-000A95DA60FA@adelphia.net>

Ken,

Thanks,

I will report it. And I tried it again and it is repeatable.

Also, I didn't want to delete my other images so i didn't do the loop. 
It seems ok now and I will write my own import to handle the rest of 
the icons.

Thanks again,

Tom

On Feb 27, 2004, at 12:31 AM, Ken Ray wrote:

> Tom,
>
> This is a bug and you should log it into Bugzilla as so. No one told 
> you
> probably because no one else had used it (or if they had, they didn't
> post to the list).
>
> However there's a lot easier way to delete all the images on a card.
> Forget selecting them, you can use the message box:
>
>   repeat with x = 1 to the number of images;delete image 1;end repeat
>
> (remember that it will delete *all* the images on a card!)
>
> Ken Ray
> Sons of Thunder Software
> Email: kray at sonsothunder.com
> Web Site: http://www.sonsothunder.com/
>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: use-revolution-bounces at lists.runrev.com
>> [mailto:use-revolution-bounces at lists.runrev.com] On Behalf Of
>> Thomas McGrath III
>> Sent: Thursday, February 26, 2004 11:12 PM
>> To: How to use Revolution
>> Subject: New Reference Control, All images in folder
>>
>>
>> I just discovered the -  New Reference Control - All images in
>> folder...... menu item.
>>
>> Well, It is terrible. I just referenced a folder of 500
>> images and not
>> one of them were imported with the reference path to them.
>> SO after thinking it was a great thing and then quitting and
>> reopening
>> my stack in REV they are all blank......
>>
>> What kind of folder import as "reference" would not include the dam
>> "reference"
>>
>> I had to delete every one of them which REV took almost four minutes
>> just to select them all. Then another few minutes to delete them and
>> then REV crashed.
>>
>> I had to do it again. Crash....
>>
>> Finally I deleted them all.
>>
>> Is this known???
>>
>> If so, why didn't you tell me?
>>
>> Tom
>>
>> Macintosh PowerBook G-4 OSX 10.3.1, OS 9.2.2, 1.25 GHz, 512MB
>> RAM, Rev
>> 2.1.2
>>
>>
>> Advanced Media Group
>> Thomas J McGrath III	. 2003 .	3mcgrath at adelphia.net
>> 220 Drake Road, Bethel Park, PA 15102
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> use-revolution mailing list
>> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-> revolution
>>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>
>

Thomas J. McGrath III
SCS
1000 Killarney Dr.
Pittsburgh, PA 15234
412-885-8541


From ian at azurevision.co.uk  Fri Feb 27 02:45:49 2004
From: ian at azurevision.co.uk (Ian Wood)
Date: Fri, 27 Feb 2004 07:45:49 +0000
Subject: File associations in Panther
In-Reply-To: <871BD6BD-68C0-11D8-862F-000393C3F5BC@canelasoftware.com>
References: <403E6036.6010602@fourthworld.com>
	<871BD6BD-68C0-11D8-862F-000393C3F5BC@canelasoftware.com>
Message-ID: <F5F3CF4D-68F8-11D8-B5F4-0003935A2896@azurevision.co.uk>


On 27 Feb 2004, at 01:01, Mark Talluto wrote:

>
> On Feb 26, 2004, at 1:08 PM, Richard Gaskin wrote:
>
>> I'm using the same standalone building process I've used for the last 
>> year, only now on Panther my standalones won't recognize my custom 
>> document types.
>>
>> Also, when I modify the core engine name within the MacOS folder and 
>> then edit my plist to match, in earlier versions of OS X this was how 
>> I got the process name to match the bundle name, only in Jaguar the 
>> same steps I'd used successfully before no longer work -- now the app 
>> simply doesn't launch.
>>
>> Have any of you successfully assigned custom document types to a Rev 
>> standalone under Panther w/ Rev 2.1?  If so, what are you doing 
>> differently than you had done under Jaguar?
>
> I sometimes have to stuff the standalone.  Then delete the original.  
> Then unstuff to get it all to work again.  On really bad cases, I file 
> transfer the standalone to another mac and then bring it back.  This 
> always does the trick.
>
> -- 
> Best regards,
> Mark Talluto
>

As I mentioned recently on the list, deleting the standalone and then 
dragging it back out of the Trash does the same.

Ian


From rodney at oceanbrowser.com  Fri Feb 27 03:09:21 2004
From: rodney at oceanbrowser.com (Rodney Tamblyn)
Date: Fri, 27 Feb 2004 21:09:21 +1300
Subject: md5digest and php
Message-ID: <3FCC350A-68FC-11D8-BD32-003065F97100@oceanbrowser.com>

This is a big thank you to Dave Cragg, who wrote in the archives last  
year:

http://lists.runrev.com/pipermail/use-revolution/2003-November/ 
025764.html

function hexDigest pvalue
    local tRes
    put md5Digest(pValue) into tMD5
    get binaryDecode("H*",tMD5,tRes)
    return tRes
end hexDigest

For others, note that this also produces (as you would expect) the same  
md5 hash string as returned by PHP md5 function (  
http://www.phpfreaks.com/phpref/116.php )

:-)

Rodney


From ambassador at fourthworld.com  Fri Feb 27 03:09:34 2004
From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin)
Date: Fri, 27 Feb 2004 00:09:34 -0800
Subject: File associations in Panther
In-Reply-To: <F5F3CF4D-68F8-11D8-B5F4-0003935A2896@azurevision.co.uk>
References: <403E6036.6010602@fourthworld.com>
	<871BD6BD-68C0-11D8-862F-000393C3F5BC@canelasoftware.com>
	<F5F3CF4D-68F8-11D8-B5F4-0003935A2896@azurevision.co.uk>
Message-ID: <403EFB3E.8090207@fourthworld.com>

Ian Wood wrote:

> On 27 Feb 2004, at 01:01, Mark Talluto wrote:
>
>> On Feb 26, 2004, at 1:08 PM, Richard Gaskin wrote:
>>
>>> I'm using the same standalone building process I've used for the last 
>>> year, only now on Panther my standalones won't recognize my custom 
>>> document types.
>>>
>>> Also, when I modify the core engine name within the MacOS folder and 
>>> then edit my plist to match, in earlier versions of OS X this was how 
>>> I got the process name to match the bundle name, only in Jaguar the 
>>> same steps I'd used successfully before no longer work -- now the app 
>>> simply doesn't launch.
>>>
>>> Have any of you successfully assigned custom document types to a Rev 
>>> standalone under Panther w/ Rev 2.1?  If so, what are you doing 
>>> differently than you had done under Jaguar?
>>
>>
>> I sometimes have to stuff the standalone.  Then delete the original.  
>> Then unstuff to get it all to work again.  On really bad cases, I file 
>> transfer the standalone to another mac and then bring it back.  This 
>> always does the trick.
> 
> As I mentioned recently on the list, deleting the standalone and then 
> dragging it back out of the Trash does the same.

Curious.  Is this a Finder bug?  Is it a known issue?

-- 
  Richard Gaskin
  Fourth World Media Corporation
  ___________________________________________________________
  Ambassador at FourthWorld.com       http://www.FourthWorld.com

From revolution at jaedworks.com  Fri Feb 27 04:08:19 2004
From: revolution at jaedworks.com (Jeanne A. E. DeVoto)
Date: Fri, 27 Feb 2004 01:08:19 -0800
Subject: The "Answer with dialog"
In-Reply-To: <8FD897E5-68DE-11D8-9ABD-0030654C1E62@realtorsgroup.us>
References: <8FD897E5-68DE-11D8-9ABD-0030654C1E62@realtorsgroup.us>
Message-ID: <p060102b2bc64b8861b00@[10.0.1.8]>

At 11:36 PM -0500 2/26/2004, hershrev wrote:
>On Thursday, February 26, 2004, at 08:22 PM, Jeanne A. E. DeVoto wrote:
>
>>At 6:45 PM -0500 2/26/2004, hershrev wrote:
>>>Hello,
>>>Is it possible to remove the "R"  from the "answer with" dialog  ?
>>
>>You can set your own icon: see the gRevAppIcon and gRevSmallAppIcon keywords.
>>
>>If you put empty into these global variables, you get no icon at all.
>This is the error I get;
>     	compiling at 11:31:37 PM
>Type	Handler: bad command
>Object	Button 1
>Line	answer gRevAppIcon "testing" with "ok"


This isn't valid syntax, as you can see from looking at the dictionary entry.

   on mouseup
     global gRevAppIcon
     put the short ID of image "My Icon" into gRevAppIcon
     answer "This is a dialog box with my custom icon."
     put empty into gRevAppIcon
     answer "This is a dialog box with no icon."
   end mouseUp

Also, if you want a title bar, you can use the titled parameter:

   answer "This text is in the dialog" with "OK" or "Cancel" titled 
"Dialog Title Here"
-- 
jeanne a. e. devoto ~ jaed at jaedworks.com
http://www.jaedworks.com

From frank at backtalk.com  Fri Feb 27 04:41:12 2004
From: frank at backtalk.com (Frank Leahy)
Date: Fri, 27 Feb 2004 09:41:12 +0000
Subject: New Reference Control, All images in folder
In-Reply-To: <20040227054621.B7F189300AD@mail.runrev.com>
Message-ID: <14507624-6909-11D8-A349-000A9580FCCE@backtalk.com>


On Friday, February 27, 2004, at 05:46  AM, 
use-revolution-request at lists.runrev.com wrote:

> However there's a lot easier way to delete all the images on a card.
> Forget selecting them, you can use the message box:
>
>   repeat with x = 1 to the number of images;delete image 1;end repeat
>
> (remember that it will delete *all* the images on a card!)
>
> Ken Ray
>

And if you lock screen and lock messages it will about 100 times faster 
(but only needed if you're doing this at runtime rather than during 
development)

lock screen
lock messages
repeat with x = 1 to the number of images;delete image 1;end repeat
unlock messages
unlock screen

-- Frank


From depstein at att.net  Fri Feb 27 08:14:48 2004
From: depstein at att.net (depstein at att.net)
Date: Fri, 27 Feb 2004 13:14:48 +0000
Subject: Selection strategies
Message-ID: <022720041314.5682.4e32@att.net>

Richard Gaskin noted that 

> when text is selected in the field [of the topstack] the 
> palette buttons work great, but if the cursor is inserted with no 
> selection then clicking in the palette window causes the field to lose 
> focus.

My palette is a menu of pulldown buttons, and these handlers are in the palette's stack script:

on mouseEnter
  global chunkStore
  get the selectedChunk
  if it is empty then put empty into chunkStore else put it && "of" && word -2 to -1 of the long id \
      of the selectedField into chunkStore
end mouseEnter

on mouseDown
  global chunkStore
  if chunkStore is not empty then do "select" && chunkStore
end mouseDown

This works properly, although there is a slight flash as the text gets reselected on mousedown, so an approach that avoided that would be welcome.  One approach:  if I test the selectedText's length and load chunkStore only if that length is <1, the engine keeps the selection without my help for cases where there's more than an insertion point, and the flash is avoided.  But in that case my experience is that the insertion point is not properly placed after the command is executed (e.g., a "paste" command does not place the insertion point after the newly pasted material), whereas the scripts above set the insertion point properly.  But there is that flash.

I'm using MC 2.5.

David Epstein

From psahores at easynet.fr  Fri Feb 27 08:19:44 2004
From: psahores at easynet.fr (Pierre Sahores)
Date: Fri, 27 Feb 2004 14:19:44 +0100
Subject: OpenBase Db
In-Reply-To: <A3DA0FFC-68D8-11D8-9ABD-0030654C1E62@realtorsgroup.us>
References: <A3DA0FFC-68D8-11D8-9ABD-0030654C1E62@realtorsgroup.us>
Message-ID: <9BD12374-6927-11D8-8114-000A95C61E96@easynet.fr>

A great tool, i don't use for yet but it could be the case in the 
future ;)
-- 
Bien cordialement, Pierre Sahores

100, rue de Paris
F - 77140 Nemours

psahores at easynet.fr

GSM:   +33 6 03 95 77 70
Pro:      +33 1 41 60 52 68
Dom:    +33 1 64 45 05 33
Fax:      +33 1 64 45 05 33

Inspection acad?mique de Seine-Saint-Denis
Applications et SGBD ACID SQL (WEB et PGI)
Penser et produire "delta de productivit?"

Le 27 f?vr. 04, ? 04:54, hershrev a ?crit :

> Hi to all
> May I suggest a direct connection to the OpenBase db's ?
> it's very inexpensive, cross-platform, easy install, easy to use, fast 
> , good credentials ,good features, web capable and very powerful. Well 
> not as PostgreSQL but can be installed, bundled as a commercial 
> package. and many years around.
> if not so , please enlighten me.
> Thanks, hershrev
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>


From mpetrides at earthlink.net  Fri Feb 27 08:22:37 2004
From: mpetrides at earthlink.net (Marian Petrides)
Date: Fri, 27 Feb 2004 08:22:37 -0500
Subject: Dan's book
In-Reply-To: <BC64222D.1E810%bfr@nwlink.com>
References: <BC64222D.1E810%bfr@nwlink.com>
Message-ID: <030DD1BE-6928-11D8-B3B8-000A959D005E@earthlink.net>

One thing that is sorely missing in the PDF version (and I assume, 
thus, in the printed version) of the first volume is an index.  I hope 
that when the third volume is complete it will include an index for the 
entire set.

Marian

On Feb 27, 2004, at 1:22 AM, Bruce Robertson wrote:

>>>
>> I've been trying for several days to buy the downloadable
>> (electronic/PDF) version of Dan Shafer's book but cannot find a link
>> that takes me to where it is available.  All links I have found are 
>> for
>> the hardcopy version which is  a) not immediately available and b) 
>> more
>> expensive.
>
>
> And c) says it comes with a CD but it doesn't. I've brought this up 
> with
> Runrev and they're looking into it.
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>


From psahores at easynet.fr  Fri Feb 27 08:40:40 2004
From: psahores at easynet.fr (Pierre Sahores)
Date: Fri, 27 Feb 2004 14:40:40 +0100
Subject: Important question regarding next major Rev version
In-Reply-To: <7853526.1077837793712.JavaMail.valetia@mac.com>
References: <7853526.1077837793712.JavaMail.valetia@mac.com>
Message-ID: <884B810E-692A-11D8-8114-000A95C61E96@easynet.fr>



Le 27 f?vr. 04, ? 00:23, valetia @mac.com a ?crit :

> Pierre Sahores <psahores at easynet.fr> wrote:
>
>> Be welcome to the List. There are lots of interesting thinks to share
>> with cool and helpfull people there.
>
> Once again, I am not a newcomer to this list.
>
>> Just take care about the thing
>> that Revolution is howned by a great but small company with full handy
>> designers and programmers, whose are working hard 16/24 hours, 6/7 
>> days
>> to improve the performances of the product. They are always focusing
>> their efforts with 2 grades of priorities : First, the improvement of
>> the stability and the performances of the engine (witch always roocks,
>> if you know how to get the best from it), Second, the improvement of
>> the stability, the performances and the features of the IDE (witch is
>> not always exactly working as firsly expected,... mostly under the
>> Linux platform).
>
> Well, those efforts have been rock solid for some time already. After
> those priorities are settled, isn't it time to look at the remaining
> priorities, which are just as important?
>
> How would you feel if you had put together most of a 10,000 piece 
> puzzle
> and had just one last piece missing and you couldn't find it so you
> couldn't frame it or show it to anyone...that's exactly what is 
> happening
> now...native UI support being that last piece...

... rock solid SQL databases drivers are missing too (i use,instead, 
under both Linux and Panther, shell piped requests to the command-line 
databases clients)...
>
>> If you can work around the unavailable features or bugs you discover
>> and report to the RunRev Team, you will see that Revolution, is over
>> all, a very powerfull and suitable development tool, able to let you
>> code all kind of very suitable professional-grade Desktop and N-Tier
>> solutions.
>
> That again proves my point. When you need to spend days and weeks

... i would probably prefer to say "minutes or hours", there ;)

>  trying
> to "work around" unavailable features or bugs, and then end up with 
> working
> widgets that don't look and behave exactly like their native 
> counterparts,
> it defeats the purpose of using a RAD. It's supposed to save you time 
> and
> produce the correct output, which I know it can, if the UI is native.
>
> We do not doubt the power of Revolution, in fact we have used it to 
> create
> what you term "professional-grade Desktop and N-Tier solutions" using 
> both
> the client and CGI. We have done full-featured cookie-based web login 
> systems,
> interfacing between RR clients and CGI for niche markets, etc. The 
> thing
> about such apps is they do not necessarily need to be based on a 
> native look
> and feel, but that is *not* what I am talking about here.

I think that, unfortunally, RunRev don't care enought about the market 
opportunities of this kind of powerfull N-Tier apps, we are building in 
using Rev.
>
> I am talking about getting the native look and feel right, so that RR 
> users
> can tap into the mass consumer market properly with apps that look 
> 100% normal,
> without any fake UI elements. I am talking about getting tons of RR 
> apps listed
> on VersionTracker, Download.com, etc. that look and work right and 
> receive tons
> of rave reviews from people on *all* platforms.

I full agree with you : it's the next step RunRev need to focus its 
effort...
>
> Right now, we have a number of apps just waiting in the wings to be 
> released,
> and they work just fine, transcript can handle everything without 
> problems,
> but we do not want to spoil our reputation by putting up something 
> that can't
> even display standard UI elements properly.

True, again.
>
> Again, that is why many are calling RR a toy, even though it is not 
> so. It is
> time to put a stop to that. Not only does it hurt RR's reputation and
> bottomline, it's also holding back many developers...and consumers end 
> up with
> less choices - there is no advantage to any party at all for putting UI
> development on the backburner...

Needed to be said.
>
> Val
>

Bests, Pierre

-- 
Bien cordialement, Pierre Sahores

100, rue de Paris
F - 77140 Nemours

psahores at easynet.fr

GSM:   +33 6 03 95 77 70
Pro:      +33 1 41 60 52 68
Dom:    +33 1 64 45 05 33
Fax:      +33 1 64 45 05 33

Inspection acad?mique de Seine-Saint-Denis
Applications et SGBD ACID SQL (WEB et PGI)
Penser et produire "delta de productivit?"

From 3mcgrath at adelphia.net  Fri Feb 27 09:05:46 2004
From: 3mcgrath at adelphia.net (Thomas McGrath III)
Date: Fri, 27 Feb 2004 09:05:46 -0500
Subject: New Reference Control, All images in folder
In-Reply-To: <14507624-6909-11D8-A349-000A9580FCCE@backtalk.com>
References: <14507624-6909-11D8-A349-000A9580FCCE@backtalk.com>
Message-ID: <09EDBE30-692E-11D8-8D0D-000A95DA60FA@adelphia.net>

Frank,

Thanks, I forgot lock messages would do that.

Tom

On Feb 27, 2004, at 4:41 AM, Frank Leahy wrote:

>
> On Friday, February 27, 2004, at 05:46  AM, 
> use-revolution-request at lists.runrev.com wrote:
>
>> However there's a lot easier way to delete all the images on a card.
>> Forget selecting them, you can use the message box:
>>
>>   repeat with x = 1 to the number of images;delete image 1;end repeat
>>
>> (remember that it will delete *all* the images on a card!)
>>
>> Ken Ray
>>
>
> And if you lock screen and lock messages it will about 100 times 
> faster (but only needed if you're doing this at runtime rather than 
> during development)
>
> lock screen
> lock messages
> repeat with x = 1 to the number of images;delete image 1;end repeat
> unlock messages
> unlock screen
>
> -- Frank
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>
>

Thomas J. McGrath III
SCS
1000 Killarney Dr.
Pittsburgh, PA 15234
412-885-8541


From gizmotron at earthlink.net  Fri Feb 27 11:42:58 2004
From: gizmotron at earthlink.net (Mark Brownell)
Date: Fri, 27 Feb 2004 08:42:58 -0800
Subject: [Ticket#: 200402251000459] Re: Windows XP file recognition?
In-Reply-To: <1077832214.408562.084805687.3486.8@www.runrev.com>
Message-ID: <00163C7E-6944-11D8-9059-000A95859272@earthlink.net>

Can someone clear this up for me?

Enterprise Users - "Up-and-running, plus 10-incident in-depth support 
package" So I ask my first in-depth support question and I get this:

On Thursday, February 26, 2004, at 01:50  PM, Runtime Revolution 
Support wrote:

> Mark,
>
> Have you tried asking your question on the mailing list? Also, Ken Ray 
> has
> some hints about this on his web site at
> <http://www.sonsothunder.com/metacard/tips/file004.htm>. I've also 
> written
> handlers that do what you want, and I just parse the contents of the $1
> variable; I wrote it for versions of Windows before XP but I haven't 
> heard any
> complaints from XP users.
>
> Unfortunately, without a support contract, we aren't supposed to 
> answer this
> type of question. About all I can do is give you a gentle shove in the 
> right
> direction. Or you could purchase a one-time support incident from the 
> web
> store. I'm pretty sure you'll get responses on the list, though -- 
> others have
> solved this in the past.
>
> Jacque
>
> Mark Brownell <gizmotron at earthlink.net> wrote:
>
>> Hi,
>>
>>  From the docs:
>>
>> $ - Keyword
>>
>> "Gotcha:  On Windows XP systems, individual arguments passed on the
>> command line are placed in separate variables ($1, $2, and so on) only
>> if they are quoted on the command line. Otherwise, all arguments are
>> placed in the $1 variable."
>>
>> I'm trying to solve file recognition in Windows XP and I was searching
>> for the recommended way of getting the path to a file to load and run
>> in Windows XP during startup. I discovered that on my Windows XP
>> machine the registry settings for Revolution are quoted differently 
>> for
>> .rev files than the recommended way of setting the registry. There are
>> some added quotes in some of the key settings.
>>
>> My question is, what is Rev doing and what is the proper way to get 
>> the
>> file path on a Windows XP from the registry? I'm trying to get
>> double-clicked files to open in Windows XP while starting my 
>> standalone
>> app. I'm having trouble with the information that is returned when I
>> use $1. I'm currently getting multiple paths that would need to be
>> parsed and "~" thrown into the section of the path that I need. Does
>> Revolution use a special handler to accommodate file recognition for
>> Windows XP verses other Windows OSs?
>>
>> I would like to see an example or the actual handlers for setting the
>> registry and the calls made to the registry in those handlers for
>> Revolution. The reason is they work for Revolution. I've been stuck on
>> this for weeks. I never wanted to ask support for help but now I've
>> gone ahead and done it.
>>
>> Thanks,
>>
>> Mark Brownell
>>
>>
>
>
>
> Jacqueline Gay
> --
> Runtime Support Team ~ http://www.runrev.com
> Runtime Revolution ~ User-Centric Development Tools
> --

Recommended way produces this:

   Data: "C:\Program Files\Intuition\Intuition.exe %1"

The way Rev does it for itself would end up looking like this for my 
files:

   Data: "C:\Program Files\Intuition\Intuition.exe" "%1"

Notice the quotes that are different. Not all arguments are quoted like 
this though on my XP system.

Double-click works for Rev by opening my .rev files on XP. I'm 
wondering what Rev does different for Windows XP Pro that is different 
than all the recommended suggestions that I have tested. When I change 
my registry settings to look like Rev's registry setting the 
recommended $0 & $1 calls don't produce a usable path to my file. 
'UNLESS', they are successfully parsing the correct file path out of 
all the information returned in $0.

I wonder what other Windows users are seeing in their regEdit settings 
for Revolution. Since this is the only place I see file recognition 
working properly on XP Pro for rev standalone applications this is 
where the answer or solution must display itself. Perhaps other 
standalone applications have been proven to open during file 
recognition (double-click) on Windows XP Pro

Thanks,

Mark Brownell




From Tom.Cole at asu.edu  Fri Feb 27 11:55:40 2004
From: Tom.Cole at asu.edu (Thomas Cole)
Date: Fri, 27 Feb 2004 09:55:40 -0700
Subject: Cross-Platformability
Message-ID: <3996AE5EBEF964418D80953BDCABFF5613A066F0@ex1.asurite.ad.asu.edu>

Just a quick basic question. I'm using OSX so I can make standalones for Mac 7,8,9,X and Windows etc. A PC user wants to know if she can save Mac applications using the RunRev Windows version. I think I should tell her that everything is the same except you need the Mac RunRev version to create standalones for Mac systems 7, 8, and 9. Am I right? A browse through the runrev page doesn't make this clear to me.

Thanks

Tom Cole

From rjb at rz.uni-potsdam.de  Fri Feb 27 12:18:05 2004
From: rjb at rz.uni-potsdam.de (Robert Brenstein)
Date: Fri, 27 Feb 2004 18:18:05 +0100
Subject: File associations in Panther
In-Reply-To: <403EFB3E.8090207@fourthworld.com>
References: <403E6036.6010602@fourthworld.com>
 <871BD6BD-68C0-11D8-862F-000393C3F5BC@canelasoftware.com>
 <F5F3CF4D-68F8-11D8-B5F4-0003935A2896@azurevision.co.uk>
 <403EFB3E.8090207@fourthworld.com>
Message-ID: <a06020425bc652b9db42d@[141.89.100.235]>

>>>
>>>I sometimes have to stuff the standalone.  Then delete the 
>>>original.  Then unstuff to get it all to work again.  On really 
>>>bad cases, I file transfer the standalone to another mac and then 
>>>bring it back.  This always does the trick.
>>
>>As I mentioned recently on the list, deleting the standalone and 
>>then dragging it back out of the Trash does the same.
>
>Curious.  Is this a Finder bug?  Is it a known issue?
>
>--
>  Richard Gaskin
>  Fourth World Media Corporation

It is a long-standing (as long as OS7 at least) issue, although I 
would not call it a bug as such. The problem is to trigger Finder 
into updating its desktop database for a program that is already 
cataloged.

Robert Brenstein

From pevensen at siboneylg.com  Fri Feb 27 12:43:16 2004
From: pevensen at siboneylg.com (Peter T. Evensen)
Date: Fri, 27 Feb 2004 11:43:16 -0600
Subject: File associations in Panther
In-Reply-To: <a06020425bc652b9db42d@[141.89.100.235]>
References: <403E6036.6010602@fourthworld.com>
 <871BD6BD-68C0-11D8-862F-000393C3F5BC@canelasoftware.com>
 <F5F3CF4D-68F8-11D8-B5F4-0003935A2896@azurevision.co.uk>
 <403EFB3E.8090207@fourthworld.com>
 <a06020425bc652b9db42d@[141.89.100.235]>
Message-ID: <6.0.1.1.2.20040227114256.01ddccf0@SLG_PDC>

Could you edit the finder flags and turned the Inited bit off and then open 
the folder again?

At 11:18 AM 2/27/2004, you wrote:

>>>>I sometimes have to stuff the standalone.  Then delete the 
>>>>original.  Then unstuff to get it all to work again.  On really bad 
>>>>cases, I file transfer the standalone to another mac and then bring it 
>>>>back.  This always does the trick.
>>>
>>>As I mentioned recently on the list, deleting the standalone and then 
>>>dragging it back out of the Trash does the same.
>>
>>Curious.  Is this a Finder bug?  Is it a known issue?
>>
>>--
>>  Richard Gaskin
>>  Fourth World Media Corporation
>
>It is a long-standing (as long as OS7 at least) issue, although I would 
>not call it a bug as such. The problem is to trigger Finder into updating 
>its desktop database for a program that is already cataloged.
>
>Robert Brenstein
>_______________________________________________
>use-revolution mailing list
>use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
>http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution

Peter T. Evensen
http://www.PetersRoadToHealth.com
24-hour recorded info hotline: 1-800-624-7671 


From jacque at hyperactivesw.com  Fri Feb 27 12:45:05 2004
From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay)
Date: Fri, 27 Feb 2004 11:45:05 -0600
Subject: [Ticket#: 200402251000459] Re: Windows XP file recognition?
In-Reply-To: <00163C7E-6944-11D8-9059-000A95859272@earthlink.net>
References: <00163C7E-6944-11D8-9059-000A95859272@earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <403F8221.1060508@hyperactivesw.com>

On 2/27/04 10:42 AM, Mark Brownell wrote:

> Can someone clear this up for me?
> 
> Enterprise Users - "Up-and-running, plus 10-incident in-depth support 
> package" So I ask my first in-depth support question and I get this:

<snip>

My apologies. Yes, I can clear up the support response (since I wrote 
it) and it is probably a good idea to mention this here. The support 
staff don't have access to the purchasing records of the customers. When 
you purchased your Enterprise edition, instructions for using your 
10-incident support contract were given in the registration letter you 
received. The support staff looks for a particular subject title code in 
order to know whether you are an entitled support user or not. Naturally 
I can't give that code here on the list, but instructions are provided 
with every Enterprise contract.

If you have lost your instructions, please write to support and explain, 
and I will give you the instructions again after checking with 
purchasing to make sure you have an Enterprise contract.

Sorry about the confusion, but we do see this periodically in the 
support database and it doesn't hurt to mention it here. We really don't 
mean to offend those who are entitled to support, but we don't have any 
easy way of knowing who those people are.

-- 
Jacqueline Landman Gay         |     jacque at hyperactivesw.com
HyperActive Software           |     http://www.hyperactivesw.com

From rcozens at pon.net  Fri Feb 27 11:55:17 2004
From: rcozens at pon.net (Rob Cozens)
Date: Fri, 27 Feb 2004 09:55:17 -0700
Subject: Button Hilite Behavior
Message-ID: <a05100300bc6521487354@[66.52.165.44]>

Hi All,

My morning mystery involves a group consisting of three buttons and a 
background field in which the buttons are framed.

There is one check box button, "Add Handlers?", family 0 and two 
radio buttons, "SDB UI" and "HC UI", family 1.  The enabled property 
of "SDB UI" & "HC UI" is toggled to match the hilite property of "Add 
Handlers?".  When enabled, "SDB UI" & "HC UI" should toggle as 
mutually exclusive options.

The problem is that selecting the unhilited radio button unhilites 
"Add Handlers?", even when I explicitly hilite it by script 
(autoHilite is off):

The pertinent handler is in the group script:

on mouseUp
   if "button" is not in the name of the target then exit mouseUp
   play audioClip "click.au"
   lock screen
   switch (the short name of the target)
     case "Add Handlers?"
       get not the hilite of button "Add Handlers?"
       set the hilite of button "Add Handlers?" to it
       set the enabled of button "SDB UI" to it
       set the enabled of button "HC UI" to it
       break
     case "SDB UI"
       get the hilite of button "SDB UI"
       set the hilite of button "HC UI" to it
       set the hilite of button "SDB UI" to not it
       set the hilite of button "Add Handlers?" to true
       break
     case "HCB UI"
       get the hilite of button "HC UI"
       set the hilite of button "SDB UI" to it
       set the hilite of button "HC UI" to not it
       set the hilite of button "Add Handlers?" to true
       break
   end switch
   unlock screen
end mouseUp

After running this handler and toggling the radio buttons, typing 
'set the hilite of button "Add Handlers?" to true' in the Message Box 
gives me back my check in the box.

Can anyone tell me why the checkmark (hilite) is going away in the first place?

TIA,

Rob Cozens
CCW, Serendipity Software Company
http://www.oenolog.net/who.htm

"And I, which was two fooles, do so grow three;
Who are a little wise, the best fooles bee."

from "The Triple Foole" by John Donne (1572-1631)

From gizmotron at earthlink.net  Fri Feb 27 13:03:38 2004
From: gizmotron at earthlink.net (Mark Brownell)
Date: Fri, 27 Feb 2004 10:03:38 -0800
Subject: [Ticket#: 200402251000459] Re: Windows XP file recognition?
In-Reply-To: <403F8221.1060508@hyperactivesw.com>
Message-ID: <44C73552-694F-11D8-B866-000A95859272@earthlink.net>


On Friday, February 27, 2004, at 09:45  AM, J. Landman Gay wrote:

> On 2/27/04 10:42 AM, Mark Brownell wrote:
>
>> Can someone clear this up for me?
>> Enterprise Users - "Up-and-running, plus 10-incident in-depth support 
>> package" So I ask my first in-depth support question and I get this:
>
> <snip>
>
> My apologies. Yes, I can clear up the support response (since I wrote 
> it) and it is probably a good idea to mention this here. The support 
> staff don't have access to the purchasing records of the customers. 
> When you purchased your Enterprise edition, instructions for using 
> your 10-incident support contract were given in the registration 
> letter you received. The support staff looks for a particular subject 
> title code in order to know whether you are an entitled support user 
> or not. Naturally I can't give that code here on the list, but 
> instructions are provided with every Enterprise contract.

oops. I should have read my contract. RTFM  strikes again... I keep 
everything so I'll try again with recommendations.

Thanks,

Mark


From rjb at rz.uni-potsdam.de  Fri Feb 27 12:50:35 2004
From: rjb at rz.uni-potsdam.de (Robert Brenstein)
Date: Fri, 27 Feb 2004 18:50:35 +0100
Subject: File associations in Panther
In-Reply-To: <6.0.1.1.2.20040227114256.01ddccf0@SLG_PDC>
References: <403E6036.6010602@fourthworld.com>
 <871BD6BD-68C0-11D8-862F-000393C3F5BC@canelasoftware.com>
 <F5F3CF4D-68F8-11D8-B5F4-0003935A2896@azurevision.co.uk>
 <403EFB3E.8090207@fourthworld.com>
 <a06020425bc652b9db42d@[141.89.100.235]>
 <6.0.1.1.2.20040227114256.01ddccf0@SLG_PDC>
Message-ID: <a06020428bc6533caa007@[141.89.100.235]>

Yes, that is one of the tricks for MAc Classic. Not sure whether 
still works under OSX.

Robert

>Could you edit the finder flags and turned the Inited bit off and 
>then open the folder again?
>
>At 11:18 AM 2/27/2004, you wrote:
>
>>>>>I sometimes have to stuff the standalone.  Then delete the 
>>>>>original.  Then unstuff to get it all to work again.  On really 
>>>>>bad cases, I file transfer the standalone to another mac and 
>>>>>then bring it back.  This always does the trick.
>>>>
>>>>As I mentioned recently on the list, deleting the standalone and 
>>>>then dragging it back out of the Trash does the same.
>>>
>>>Curious.  Is this a Finder bug?  Is it a known issue?
>>>
>>>--
>>>  Richard Gaskin
>>>  Fourth World Media Corporation
>>
>>It is a long-standing (as long as OS7 at least) issue, although I 
>>would not call it a bug as such. The problem is to trigger Finder 
>>into updating its desktop database for a program that is already 
>>cataloged.
>>
>>Robert Brenstein
>>_______________________________________________
>>use-revolution mailing list
>>use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
>>http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>
>Peter T. Evensen
>http://www.PetersRoadToHealth.com
>24-hour recorded info hotline: 1-800-624-7671
>_______________________________________________
>use-revolution mailing list
>use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
>http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution


From ambassador at fourthworld.com  Fri Feb 27 13:12:23 2004
From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin)
Date: Fri, 27 Feb 2004 10:12:23 -0800
Subject: File associations in Panther
In-Reply-To: <a06020425bc652b9db42d@[141.89.100.235]>
References: <403E6036.6010602@fourthworld.com>
	<871BD6BD-68C0-11D8-862F-000393C3F5BC@canelasoftware.com>
	<F5F3CF4D-68F8-11D8-B5F4-0003935A2896@azurevision.co.uk>
	<403EFB3E.8090207@fourthworld.com> <a06020425bc652b9db42d@[141.89.100.235]>
Message-ID: <403F8887.2000106@fourthworld.com>

Robert Brenstein wrote:

>>>> I sometimes have to stuff the standalone.  Then delete the 
>>>> original.  Then unstuff to get it all to work again.  On really bad 
>>>> cases, I file transfer the standalone to another mac and then bring 
>>>> it back.  This always does the trick.
>>>
>>> As I mentioned recently on the list, deleting the standalone and then 
>>> dragging it back out of the Trash does the same.
>>
>> Curious.  Is this a Finder bug?  Is it a known issue?
>
> It is a long-standing (as long as OS7 at least) issue, although I would 
> not call it a bug as such. The problem is to trigger Finder into 
> updating its desktop database for a program that is already cataloged.

As a developer "gotcha" I agree it should not be called a bug.  But are 
there any end-user actions that could be adversely affected by the 
Finder "characteristic"?

-- 
  Richard Gaskin
  Fourth World Media Corporation
  ___________________________________________________________
  Ambassador at FourthWorld.com       http://www.FourthWorld.com

From 3mcgrath at adelphia.net  Fri Feb 27 13:18:02 2004
From: 3mcgrath at adelphia.net (Thomas McGrath III)
Date: Fri, 27 Feb 2004 13:18:02 -0500
Subject: screenMouseLoc Not in Windows
Message-ID: <47CF66D6-6951-11D8-8D0D-000A95DA60FA@adelphia.net>

Hello Users,

Has anyone been successful with setting the screenMouseLoc to work in 
windows??????

I put the global coordinates of a control and converted them using 
globalLoc.

Both of these are said to work cross platform in the docs...

This works in Mac OSX.

a repeat with a couple of groups, then:

put globalLoc(the loc of group h) into myLoc
set the screenMouseLoc to myLoc

Any one else see this?

Tom

Macintosh PowerBook G-4 OSX 10.3.1, OS 9.2.2, 1.25 GHz, 512MB RAM, Rev 
2.1.2


Advanced Media Group
Thomas J McGrath III	? 2003 ?	3mcgrath at adelphia.net
220 Drake Road, Bethel Park, PA 15102



From hershbp at realtorsgroup.us  Fri Feb 27 13:24:28 2004
From: hershbp at realtorsgroup.us (hershrev)
Date: Fri, 27 Feb 2004 13:24:28 -0500
Subject: The "Answer with dialog"
In-Reply-To: <p060102b2bc64b8861b00@[10.0.1.8]>
Message-ID: <2DC65A4E-6952-11D8-9ABD-0030654C1E62@realtorsgroup.us>


On Friday, February 27, 2004, at 04:08 AM, Jeanne A. E. DeVoto wrote:

> At 11:36 PM -0500 2/26/2004, hershrev wrote:
>> On Thursday, February 26, 2004, at 08:22 PM, Jeanne A. E. DeVoto 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> At 6:45 PM -0500 2/26/2004, hershrev wrote:
>>>> Hello,
>>>> Is it possible to remove the "R"  from the "answer with" dialog  ?
>>>
>>> You can set your own icon: see the gRevAppIcon and gRevSmallAppIcon 
>>> keywords.
>>>
>>> If you put empty into these global variables, you get no icon at all.
>> This is the error I get;
>>     	compiling at 11:31:37 PM
>> Type	Handler: bad command
>> Object	Button 1
>> Line	answer gRevAppIcon "testing" with "ok"
>
>
> This isn't valid syntax, as you can see from looking at the dictionary 
> entry.
>
>   on mouseup
>     global gRevAppIcon
>     put the short ID of image "My Icon" into gRevAppIcon
>     answer "This is a dialog box with my custom icon."
>     put empty into gRevAppIcon
>     answer "This is a dialog box with no icon."
>   end mouseUp
Now I'm even more confused , what should be done and what not. I don't 
have any image to put . I just want to put empty. What should be the 
exact syntax to display an empty dialog
e.g.
on mouseUp
   answer empty "abc" with "yes " or "no"
   Or to put my owen icons.
   answer myimage "abc" with "yes " or " no"
end mouseUp
>
> Also, if you want a title bar, you can use the titled parameter:
>
>   answer "This text is in the dialog" with "OK" or "Cancel" titled 
> "Dialog Title Here"
> -- 
> jeanne a. e. devoto ~ jaed at jaedworks.com
> http://www.jaedworks.com
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>


From hershbp at realtorsgroup.us  Fri Feb 27 13:25:28 2004
From: hershbp at realtorsgroup.us (hershrev)
Date: Fri, 27 Feb 2004 13:25:28 -0500
Subject: The "Answer with dialog"
In-Reply-To: <403ED3C3.7030000@chipp.com>
Message-ID: <517342D4-6952-11D8-9ABD-0030654C1E62@realtorsgroup.us>


On Friday, February 27, 2004, at 12:21 AM, Chipp Walters wrote:

> global gRevAppIcon
> on mouseUp
>    --only need to do this once, in an openStack handler
>    put empty into gRevAppIcon
>    answer "it works now!" with "ok"
> end mouseUp
What is the difference ?
hershrev
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>


From revlists at canelasoftware.com  Fri Feb 27 13:47:13 2004
From: revlists at canelasoftware.com (Mark Talluto)
Date: Fri, 27 Feb 2004 10:47:13 -0800
Subject: File associations in Panther
In-Reply-To: <403EFB3E.8090207@fourthworld.com>
References: <403E6036.6010602@fourthworld.com>
	<871BD6BD-68C0-11D8-862F-000393C3F5BC@canelasoftware.com>
	<F5F3CF4D-68F8-11D8-B5F4-0003935A2896@azurevision.co.uk>
	<403EFB3E.8090207@fourthworld.com>
Message-ID: <5B36B8FD-6955-11D8-865B-000393C3F5BC@canelasoftware.com>


On Feb 27, 2004, at 12:09 AM, Richard Gaskin wrote:

> Ian Wood wrote:
>
>> On 27 Feb 2004, at 01:01, Mark Talluto wrote:
>>
>>> On Feb 26, 2004, at 1:08 PM, Richard Gaskin wrote:
>>>
>>>> I'm using the same standalone building process I've used for the 
>>>> last year, only now on Panther my standalones won't recognize my 
>>>> custom document types.
>>>>
>>>> Also, when I modify the core engine name within the MacOS folder 
>>>> and then edit my plist to match, in earlier versions of OS X this 
>>>> was how I got the process name to match the bundle name, only in 
>>>> Jaguar the same steps I'd used successfully before no longer work 
>>>> -- now the app simply doesn't launch.
>>>>
>>>> Have any of you successfully assigned custom document types to a 
>>>> Rev standalone under Panther w/ Rev 2.1?  If so, what are you doing 
>>>> differently than you had done under Jaguar?
>>>
>>>
>>> I sometimes have to stuff the standalone.  Then delete the original. 
>>>  Then unstuff to get it all to work again.  On really bad cases, I 
>>> file transfer the standalone to another mac and then bring it back.  
>>> This always does the trick.
>> As I mentioned recently on the list, deleting the standalone and then 
>> dragging it back out of the Trash does the same.
>
> Curious.  Is this a Finder bug?  Is it a known issue?
>
>
I have been plagued by this by every version of OS X.

-- 
Best regards,
Mark Talluto
http://www.canelasoftware.com

From James.Cass at sealedair.com  Fri Feb 27 13:43:14 2004
From: James.Cass at sealedair.com (James.Cass at sealedair.com)
Date: Fri, 27 Feb 2004 13:43:14 -0500
Subject: File associations in Panther
In-Reply-To: <403F8887.2000106@fourthworld.com>
Message-ID: <OF8476146E.7CD316AA-ON85256E47.0065A55B-85256E47.00677E09@sealedair.com>

I have been a Apple/Mac aficionado since the Apple ][ days.  And I have 
defended Apple against the "Evil Windows Users" in some debates that felt 
like a verbal Aikido sparring match.  But here we are in Panther 20 years 
after the first Mac, and the Finder window STILL doesn't update to show a 
programmatically copied file unless you tickle the window by clicking in 
it (or using the AppleScript "update folder' command)!  Now that's just 
inexcusable.  This is not a characteristic, this is a major FLAW.  It is 
these kinds of "characteristics" that provide ammo to those who criticize 
the MacOS for not being a serious operating system.

Harumph!!
-James






Richard Gaskin <ambassador at fourthworld.com>
Sent by: use-revolution-bounces at lists.runrev.com
02/27/04 01:12 PM
Please respond to How to use Revolution
 
        To:     How to use Revolution <use-revolution at lists.runrev.com>
        cc: 
        Subject:        Re: File associations in Panther


Robert Brenstein wrote:

>>>> I sometimes have to stuff the standalone.  Then delete the
>>>> original.  Then unstuff to get it all to work again.  On really bad
>>>> cases, I file transfer the standalone to another mac and then bring
>>>> it back.  This always does the trick.
>>>
>>> As I mentioned recently on the list, deleting the standalone and then
>>> dragging it back out of the Trash does the same.
>>
>> Curious.  Is this a Finder bug?  Is it a known issue?
>
> It is a long-standing (as long as OS7 at least) issue, although I would
> not call it a bug as such. The problem is to trigger Finder into
> updating its desktop database for a program that is already cataloged.

As a developer "gotcha" I agree it should not be called a bug.  But are
there any end-user actions that could be adversely affected by the
Finder "characteristic"?

--
Richard Gaskin
Fourth World Media Corporation
___________________________________________________________
Ambassador at FourthWorld.com       http://www.FourthWorld.com
_______________________________________________
use-revolution mailing list
use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution

From 3mcgrath at adelphia.net  Fri Feb 27 14:00:34 2004
From: 3mcgrath at adelphia.net (Thomas McGrath III)
Date: Fri, 27 Feb 2004 14:00:34 -0500
Subject: File associations in Panther
In-Reply-To: <OF8476146E.7CD316AA-ON85256E47.0065A55B-85256E47.00677E09@sealedair.com>
References: <OF8476146E.7CD316AA-ON85256E47.0065A55B-85256E47.00677E09@sealedair.com>
Message-ID: <38A72636-6957-11D8-8D0D-000A95DA60FA@adelphia.net>

Actually I have this same problem with windows xp.
I have to close a folder (or go up one level) and then reopen it to see 
the 'correct' version of my rev standalones every time I build a new 
one.
When I update my OSX standalones they are updated once the the folder 
window is brought to the front or is already open (after a slight 
delay)

NMEH (not my experience here)

FWIW

Tom

On Feb 27, 2004, at 1:43 PM, James.Cass at sealedair.com wrote:

> I have been a Apple/Mac aficionado since the Apple ][ days.  And I have
> defended Apple against the "Evil Windows Users" in some debates that 
> felt
> like a verbal Aikido sparring match.  But here we are in Panther 20 
> years
> after the first Mac, and the Finder window STILL doesn't update to 
> show a
> programmatically copied file unless you tickle the window by clicking 
> in
> it (or using the AppleScript "update folder' command)!  Now that's just
> inexcusable.  This is not a characteristic, this is a major FLAW.  It 
> is
> these kinds of "characteristics" that provide ammo to those who 
> criticize
> the MacOS for not being a serious operating system.
>

Thomas J. McGrath III
SCS
1000 Killarney Dr.
Pittsburgh, PA 15234
412-885-8541


From mwieder at ahsoftware.net  Fri Feb 27 14:09:15 2004
From: mwieder at ahsoftware.net (Mark Wieder)
Date: Fri, 27 Feb 2004 11:09:15 -0800
Subject: [Ticket#: 200402251000459] Re: Windows XP file recognition?
In-Reply-To: <403F8221.1060508@hyperactivesw.com>
References: <00163C7E-6944-11D8-9059-000A95859272@earthlink.net>
 <403F8221.1060508@hyperactivesw.com>
Message-ID: <1036847215.20040227110915@ahsoftware.net>

J.-

Friday, February 27, 2004, 9:45:05 AM, you wrote:

JLG> My apologies. Yes, I can clear up the support response (since I wrote
JLG> it) and it is probably a good idea to mention this here. The support
JLG> staff don't have access to the purchasing records of the customers. When
JLG> you purchased your Enterprise edition, instructions for using your
JLG> 10-incident support contract were given in the registration letter you
JLG> received. The support staff looks for a particular subject title code in
JLG> order to know whether you are an entitled support user or not. Naturally
JLG> I can't give that code here on the list, but instructions are provided
JLG> with every Enterprise contract.

Well, this is news to me. Since I never "purchased" an Enterprise
edition, but my Pro edition became an Enterprise edition when I
renewed, I have no such contract. My original registration letter says
that I am entitled to free email support until the one-year time
period runs out. Obviously the terms and conditions have changed.

Not that I have needed to try to get specialized email support that I
couldn't get from this list, mind you, but I'm putting this to the
list because there may be others in this same boat.

-- 
-Mark Wieder
 mwieder at ahsoftware.net


From gizmotron at earthlink.net  Fri Feb 27 14:23:38 2004
From: gizmotron at earthlink.net (Mark Brownell)
Date: Fri, 27 Feb 2004 11:23:38 -0800
Subject: [Ticket#: 200402251000459] Re: Windows XP file recognition?
In-Reply-To: <1036847215.20040227110915@ahsoftware.net>
Message-ID: <72031F3D-695A-11D8-B866-000A95859272@earthlink.net>


On Friday, February 27, 2004, at 11:09  AM, Mark Wieder wrote:

> J.-
>
> Friday, February 27, 2004, 9:45:05 AM, you wrote:
>
> JLG> My apologies. Yes, I can clear up the support response (since I 
> wrote
> JLG> it) and it is probably a good idea to mention this here. The 
> support
> JLG> staff don't have access to the purchasing records of the 
> customers. When
> JLG> you purchased your Enterprise edition, instructions for using your
> JLG> 10-incident support contract were given in the registration 
> letter you
> JLG> received. The support staff looks for a particular subject title 
> code in
> JLG> order to know whether you are an entitled support user or not. 
> Naturally
> JLG> I can't give that code here on the list, but instructions are 
> provided
> JLG> with every Enterprise contract.
>
> Well, this is news to me. Since I never "purchased" an Enterprise
> edition, but my Pro edition became an Enterprise edition when I
> renewed, I have no such contract. My original registration letter says
> that I am entitled to free email support until the one-year time
> period runs out. Obviously the terms and conditions have changed.
>
> Not that I have needed to try to get specialized email support that I
> couldn't get from this list, mind you, but I'm putting this to the
> list because there may be others in this same boat.
>
> -- 
> -Mark Wieder

Mine was a Pro edition too. I just took stuff off the current website 
for reference. You wouldn't happen to be British would you? The British 
have a gift for understatement. I know because I had to walk up hill 
both ways to go to school while I was growing up. :-)

For the record this is the first time I ever tried to get support help 
from any software developer. So all those years with Director I either 
RTFMed, got help from the user-list, or figured it out myself. I guess 
I have some kind of I never needed help so there trip...

:-)
Mark


From martin at materiaprima.fsnet.co.uk  Fri Feb 27 14:39:16 2004
From: martin at materiaprima.fsnet.co.uk (Martin Baxter)
Date: Fri, 27 Feb 2004 19:39:16 +0000
Subject: Cross-Platformability
In-Reply-To:  <3996AE5EBEF964418D80953BDCABFF5613A066F0@ex1.asurite.ad.asu.edu>
Message-ID: <l03130300bc655c80a057@[217.135.4.20]>

You understand correctly Tom. In the windows version of the dist builder,
MacOS 68k, MacOSPPC amd MacOS Fat options are all disabled. This is because
applications on these platforms require a resource fork, and that can only
be created on the Mac.

Martin

>Just a quick basic question. I'm using OSX so I can make standalones for
>Mac 7,8,9,X and Windows etc. A PC user wants to know if she can save Mac
>applications using the RunRev Windows version. I think I should tell her
>that everything is the same except you need the Mac RunRev version to
>create standalones for Mac systems 7, 8, and 9. Am I right? A browse
>through the runrev page doesn't make this clear to me.
>
>Thanks
>
>Tom Cole
>_______________________________________________
>use-revolution mailing list
>use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
>http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution




From mpetrides at earthlink.net  Fri Feb 27 14:47:41 2004
From: mpetrides at earthlink.net (Marian Petrides)
Date: Fri, 27 Feb 2004 14:47:41 -0500
Subject: Cross-Platformability
In-Reply-To: <l03130300bc655c80a057@[217.135.4.20]>
References: <l03130300bc655c80a057@[217.135.4.20]>
Message-ID: <CE36038C-695D-11D8-B3B8-000A959D005E@earthlink.net>

The other neat thing I found recently is that if your only standalone 
is a simple central hub or splash screen that then runs a series of 
non-standalone stack files you really only have to use distribution 
builder once and can do virtually all your work on your platform of 
choice.

Now that my central hub works as desired, I just create the rest of my 
stack files on the Mac and transport them to PC when they are 
completely done--and I need to make the minor cosmetic changes which 
will fix minor differences in text display, etc between platforms.  
Neat!  I HAD been compiling (making standalone) and porting multiple 
times and t'was a real nuisance.  Now I just give the central hub to my 
users and update only the affected non-standalone stacks.

M

On Feb 27, 2004, at 2:39 PM, Martin Baxter wrote:

> You understand correctly Tom. In the windows version of the dist 
> builder,
> MacOS 68k, MacOSPPC amd MacOS Fat options are all disabled. This is 
> because
> applications on these platforms require a resource fork, and that can 
> only
> be created on the Mac.
>
> Martin
>
>> Just a quick basic question. I'm using OSX so I can make standalones 
>> for
>> Mac 7,8,9,X and Windows etc. A PC user wants to know if she can save 
>> Mac
>> applications using the RunRev Windows version. I think I should tell 
>> her
>> that everything is the same except you need the Mac RunRev version to
>> create standalones for Mac systems 7, 8, and 9. Am I right? A browse
>> through the runrev page doesn't make this clear to me.
>>
>> Thanks
>>
>> Tom Cole
>> _______________________________________________
>> use-revolution mailing list
>> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>


From revolution at jaedworks.com  Fri Feb 27 15:02:17 2004
From: revolution at jaedworks.com (Jeanne A. E. DeVoto)
Date: Fri, 27 Feb 2004 12:02:17 -0800
Subject: Button Hilite Behavior
In-Reply-To: <a05100300bc6521487354@[66.52.165.44]>
References: <a05100300bc6521487354@[66.52.165.44]>
Message-ID: <p060102dfbc65524f9d48@[10.0.1.8]>

At 9:55 AM -0700 2/27/2004, Rob Cozens wrote:
>My morning mystery involves a group consisting of three buttons and 
>a background field in which the buttons are framed.
>
>The problem is that selecting the unhilited radio button unhilites 
>"Add Handlers?", even when I explicitly hilite it by script 
>(autoHilite is off):

Is the group's radioBehavior property turned on?
-- 
jeanne a. e. devoto ~ jaed at jaedworks.com
http://www.jaedworks.com

From scott at tactilemedia.com  Fri Feb 27 15:02:41 2004
From: scott at tactilemedia.com (Scott Rossi)
Date: Fri, 27 Feb 2004 12:02:41 -0800
Subject: Win98 Issue - Launch App on Remote Volume
In-Reply-To: <l03130300bc655c80a057@[217.135.4.20]>
Message-ID: <BC64E261.A52D%scott@tactilemedia.com>

Howdy List:

I have yet another issue with Win98 [sigh] that I'm hoping someone may be
able to solve...

Our app is designed to launch a second app using the standard

  open process path_to_xyz.exe for neither

Admittedly, this app was built using the 2.4 version of MetaCard (is this
the same as Rev 1.1?), however it works fine and reliably when run locally.
When the app is run under Win98 from a remote volume, it runs fine but will
not launch the second app.  The error returned in the result is "Not opened"
(now this is helpful).  Checking the path to the EXE verifies the existence
of the EXE files (true).  And the second app also launches as expected on
Win2K and WinXP.  The problem apparently occurs only under Win98.

Any ideas on how to make launching from a remote volume work correctly?

Thanks & Regards,

Scott Rossi
Creative Director
Tactile Media, Multimedia & Design
-----
E: scott at tactilemedia.com
W: http://www.tactilemedia.com


From squance at elkvalley.net  Fri Feb 27 15:08:51 2004
From: squance at elkvalley.net (David Squance)
Date: Fri, 27 Feb 2004 13:08:51 -0700
Subject: Printing problem
In-Reply-To: <l03130329bc6490b183ff@[192.168.1.100]>
References: <403EDA27.5020900@hyperactivesw.com>
 <l03130321bc644822a4d7@[192.168.1.100]>
 <l0313031fbc6337325d0f@[192.168.1.100]>
 <403D6BFB.2090407@hyperactivesw.com>
 <l03130316bc62c3179bbe@[192.168.1.100]>
 <l0313030cbc38d03efeeb@[192.168.1.100]>
 <l03130316bc62c3179bbe@[192.168.1.100]>
 <l0313031fbc6337325d0f@[192.168.1.100]>
 <l03130321bc644822a4d7@[192.168.1.100]>
Message-ID: <l03130303bc6553f790c9@[192.168.1.100]>

>>
>>open printing with dialog
>>print this card
>>close printing
>>
>>In the dialog that appears, there is a button at the bottom that says
>>"Print to PDF". Click that and it will print to a file on disk instead
>>of to your printer. If this works and you get a successful printout,
>>then chances are there is something about your print driver that doesn't
>>like printing stacks.
>
>This worked.  I got a pdf file and it didn't freeze.
>
>>The above script gives the dialog I think you mean. Have you changed
>>printers or updated the driver since the problem started?
>
>No.
>
>>How about the version of Rev you are using; did you recently change to the
>>OS X
>>version from the classic version? Do you have OS X drivers installed for
>>the Epson, or just the classic drivers?
>
>No recent changes, and I'm sure I loaded the OS X driver when I upgraded
>from OS 9.  I don't think I'd get the OS X dialog without it.  It's totally
>different from the OS 9.  However, I'll download a new one and reinstall.
>Thanks so much, Jacque.  You've been very helpful (and patient.)
>Dave

Reinstalling the Epson driver from the OS X CD solved the problem.
Sometimes computers drive me crazy.
Dave



From revolution at jaedworks.com  Fri Feb 27 15:10:05 2004
From: revolution at jaedworks.com (Jeanne A. E. DeVoto)
Date: Fri, 27 Feb 2004 12:10:05 -0800
Subject: The "Answer with dialog"
In-Reply-To: <517342D4-6952-11D8-9ABD-0030654C1E62@realtorsgroup.us>
References: <517342D4-6952-11D8-9ABD-0030654C1E62@realtorsgroup.us>
Message-ID: <p060102e2bc6553e6fcad@[10.0.1.8]>

At 1:25 PM -0500 2/27/2004, hershrev wrote:
>On Friday, February 27, 2004, at 12:21 AM, Chipp Walters wrote:
>
>>global gRevAppIcon
>>on mouseUp
>>    --only need to do this once, in an openStack handler
>>    put empty into gRevAppIcon
>>    answer "it works now!" with "ok"
>>end mouseUp
>What is the difference ?

The only difference is that Chipp's example has the global command 
outside any handlers, and mine has the global command inside the 
handler. So in Chipp's example, you could also put things into the 
global variable "gRevAppIcon" in other handlers in that script, 
without having to declare the global variable again in each handler.

But if you are only using that global variable in one handler, it 
doesn't make any difference. Either one will work.

If you don't want to use any icon, you can just put empty into the 
global variable "gRevAppIcon" (as shown above) and you don't need to 
put an image ID into it. My post showed how to do both, just as an 
example.
-- 
jeanne a. e. devoto ~ jaed at jaedworks.com
http://www.jaedworks.com

From ambassador at fourthworld.com  Fri Feb 27 15:19:06 2004
From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin)
Date: Fri, 27 Feb 2004 12:19:06 -0800
Subject: Selection strategies
In-Reply-To: <022720041314.5682.4e32@att.net>
References: <022720041314.5682.4e32@att.net>
Message-ID: <403FA63A.8050907@fourthworld.com>

depstein at att.net wrote:

> Richard Gaskin noted that 
> 
> 
>>when text is selected in the field [of the topstack] the 
>>palette buttons work great, but if the cursor is inserted with no 
>>selection then clicking in the palette window causes the field to lose 
>>focus.
> 
> 
> My palette is a menu of pulldown buttons, and these handlers are in the palette's stack script:
> 
> on mouseEnter
>   global chunkStore
>   get the selectedChunk
>   if it is empty then put empty into chunkStore else put it && "of" && word -2 to -1 of the long id \
>       of the selectedField into chunkStore
> end mouseEnter
> 
> on mouseDown
>   global chunkStore
>   if chunkStore is not empty then do "select" && chunkStore
> end mouseDown

Good solution.  Ken also came up with this brainstorming with him on the 
phone last night.  I'll go that route for now, and have submitted a 
Bugzilla report for the future.

Thanks for the help.

-- 
  Richard Gaskin
  Fourth World Media Corporation
  ___________________________________________________________
  Ambassador at FourthWorld.com       http://www.FourthWorld.com

From scott at tactilemedia.com  Fri Feb 27 15:19:56 2004
From: scott at tactilemedia.com (Scott Rossi)
Date: Fri, 27 Feb 2004 12:19:56 -0800
Subject: Printing problem
In-Reply-To: <l03130303bc6553f790c9@[192.168.1.100]>
Message-ID: <BC64E66C.A537%scott@tactilemedia.com>

Recently, "David Squance"  wrote:

> Sometimes computers drive me crazy.

Let me be the first to welcome you to the Asylum -- I've been a resident for
some time now.

Enjoy your stay.

Regards,

Scott Rossi
Creative Director
Tactile Media, Multimedia & Design
-----
E: scott at tactilemedia.com
W: http://www.tactilemedia.com


From sanke at hrz.uni-kassel.de  Fri Feb 27 15:24:32 2004
From: sanke at hrz.uni-kassel.de (Wilhelm Sanke)
Date: Fri, 27 Feb 2004 21:24:32 +0100
Subject: screenMouseLoc Not in Windows
Message-ID: <403FA780.2020609@hrz.uni-kassel.de>

On Fri, 27 Feb 2004 Thomas McGrath III <3mcgrath at adelphia.net>
wrote:


>Hello Users,
>
>Has anyone been successful with setting the screenMouseLoc to work in 
>windows??????
>
>I put the global coordinates of a control and converted them using 
>globalLoc.
>
>Both of these are said to work cross platform in the docs...
>
>This works in Mac OSX.
>
>a repeat with a couple of groups, then:
>
>put globalLoc(the loc of group h) into myLoc
>set the screenMouseLoc to myLoc
>
>Any one else see this?
>
>Tom



No problem here on Windows XP, for example with

 "set the screenmouseloc to globalloc(the loc of btn 2)"

Regards,

Wilhelm Sanke



From scott at tactilemedia.com  Fri Feb 27 15:31:04 2004
From: scott at tactilemedia.com (Scott Rossi)
Date: Fri, 27 Feb 2004 12:31:04 -0800
Subject: Win98 Issue - Launch App on Remote Volume
In-Reply-To: <BC64E261.A52D%scott@tactilemedia.com>
Message-ID: <BC64E908.A53D%scott@tactilemedia.com>

Recently, I asked:

> Any ideas on how to make launching from a remote volume work correctly?

A follow up to the above issue:

1) Using get shell("start" && "path_to_the_app.exe") returns empty as if
successful, but nothing happens;

2) Physically double-clicking the app runs it correctly, so there is no
problem with the app itself, per se.

Regards,

Scott Rossi
Creative Director
Tactile Media, Multimedia & Design
-----
E: scott at tactilemedia.com
W: http://www.tactilemedia.com


From jacque at hyperactivesw.com  Fri Feb 27 15:40:42 2004
From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay)
Date: Fri, 27 Feb 2004 14:40:42 -0600
Subject: [Ticket#: 200402251000459] Re: Windows XP file recognition?
In-Reply-To: <1036847215.20040227110915@ahsoftware.net>
References: <00163C7E-6944-11D8-9059-000A95859272@earthlink.net>
	<403F8221.1060508@hyperactivesw.com>
	<1036847215.20040227110915@ahsoftware.net>
Message-ID: <403FAB4A.1060100@hyperactivesw.com>

On 2/27/04 1:09 PM, Mark Wieder wrote:

> Since I never "purchased" an Enterprise
> edition, but my Pro edition became an Enterprise edition when I
> renewed, I have no such contract. My original registration letter says
> that I am entitled to free email support until the one-year time
> period runs out. Obviously the terms and conditions have changed.

If you ever need to contact support, just mention in the body of your 
letter that you are an Enterprise user. That will help get things 
rolling and I won't make the same embarrassing mistake I made with Mark. 
I really should have known better; my brain was on auto-pilot when I 
responded to him.

-- 
Jacqueline Landman Gay         |     jacque at hyperactivesw.com
HyperActive Software           |     http://www.hyperactivesw.com

From jperryl at ecs.fullerton.edu  Fri Feb 27 17:09:26 2004
From: jperryl at ecs.fullerton.edu (Judy Perry)
Date: Fri, 27 Feb 2004 14:09:26 -0800 (PST)
Subject: are image objects moveable?
In-Reply-To: <Pine.GSO.4.58.0402251106350.24992@vertex.ucls.uchicago.edu>
Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.4.33.0402271407200.12459-100000@titan.ecs.fullerton.edu>

I think we recently had this very discussion...  I, too, have a hard time
letting go of 'on mouseStillDown' but I'm fairly certain I recall having
it explained that this approach ties up the processor and that the new
'grab' (?) command is preferable.

Do I recall wrong?

Judy

On Wed, 25 Feb 2004, Marty Billingsley wrote:

> on mouseStillDown
>   set the loc of me to the mouseLoc
> end mouseStillDown
>


From rogerguay at centurytel.net  Fri Feb 27 17:12:16 2004
From: rogerguay at centurytel.net (Roger Guay)
Date: Fri, 27 Feb 2004 14:12:16 -0800
Subject: Tutti 3D
In-Reply-To: <20040226170019.15645930062@mail.runrev.com>
References: <20040226170019.15645930062@mail.runrev.com>
Message-ID: <00C2C342-6972-11D8-9B83-000393A1CAAA@centurytel.net>

Scott,

I am so grateful to you and others who allow us to download your 
amazing Rev examples.  I learn so much from these . . . not just tricks 
and techniques but also how powerful and versatile this tool is.

Tutti 3D is awesome and pushes back the frontiers of ignorance to an 
amazing degree!

Cheers, Roger

> Message: 4
> Date: Thu, 26 Feb 2004 02:54:35 -0800
> From: Scott Rossi <scott at tactilemedia.com>
> Subject: [ANN] Tutti 3D
> To: How to use Revolution <use-revolution at lists.runrev.com>
> Message-ID: <BC63106B.A642%scott at tactilemedia.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
>
> Posted is a stack that demonstrates an interesting aspect of polygon
> graphics, and a way these graphics can be used to create 3D shapes and
> animations.  Be sure to read the explanation included in the stack.
>
> Tutti 3D is available on RevNet and via our Media Panel.  Enter the
> following in your message box:
>
>  go url "http://www.tactilemedia.com/tmpanel.rev"
>
> (OK, the stack name is clearly a misnomer.  The stack does not cover
> everything [tutti] 3D.  Instead, use a lazy American accent to 
> pronounce
> 'tutti' and you wind up with 'too-dee', as in 2D.  2D - 3D. Get it?...)
>
> Regards,
>
> Scott Rossi
> Creative Director
> Tactile Media, Development & Design
> -----
> E: scott at tactilemedia.com
> W: http://www.tactilemedia.com
>


From jperryl at ecs.fullerton.edu  Fri Feb 27 17:16:49 2004
From: jperryl at ecs.fullerton.edu (Judy Perry)
Date: Fri, 27 Feb 2004 14:16:49 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Dan's book
In-Reply-To: <030DD1BE-6928-11D8-B3B8-000A959D005E@earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.4.33.0402271416240.12459-100000@titan.ecs.fullerton.edu>

Here here!

Judy

On Fri, 27 Feb 2004, Marian Petrides wrote:

> One thing that is sorely missing in the PDF version (and I assume,
> thus, in the printed version) of the first volume is an index.  I hope
> that when the third volume is complete it will include an index for the
> entire set.


From dsc at swcp.com  Fri Feb 27 17:34:35 2004
From: dsc at swcp.com (Dar Scott)
Date: Fri, 27 Feb 2004 15:34:35 -0700
Subject: Win98 Issue - Launch App on Remote Volume
In-Reply-To: <BC64E261.A52D%scott@tactilemedia.com>
Message-ID: <1E8C28BC-6975-11D8-B06D-000A9567A3E6@swcp.com>


On Friday, February 27, 2004, at 01:02 PM, Scott Rossi wrote:

> Any ideas on how to make launching from a remote volume work correctly?

When working with DCOM, I found a similar limitation.  Perhaps this is 
a system constraint because of the security limitations of '98.

Dar Scott


From dsc at swcp.com  Fri Feb 27 17:48:53 2004
From: dsc at swcp.com (Dar Scott)
Date: Fri, 27 Feb 2004 15:48:53 -0700
Subject: screenMouseLoc Not in Windows
In-Reply-To: <47CF66D6-6951-11D8-8D0D-000A95DA60FA@adelphia.net>
Message-ID: <1DFA9F0A-6977-11D8-B06D-000A9567A3E6@swcp.com>


On Friday, February 27, 2004, at 11:18 AM, Thomas McGrath III wrote:

> Has anyone been successful with setting the screenMouseLoc to work in 
> windows??????

on mouseUp
    set the screenMouseLoc to 100,100
end mouseUp

This works for me.

Maybe the problem is elsewhere.

Dar Scott


From gwills at ozemail.com.au  Fri Feb 27 18:28:28 2004
From: gwills at ozemail.com.au (Greg Wills)
Date: Sat, 28 Feb 2004 08:58:28 +0930
Subject: Read only
In-Reply-To: <20040227090908.BDCF89300BB@mail.runrev.com>
References: <20040227090908.BDCF89300BB@mail.runrev.com>
Message-ID: <A5B8CC40-697C-11D8-8ABB-000D9366AC66@ozemail.com.au>

Hi All

Things are going well here and rev is behaving as it should do. I have 
a question though about moving Rev applications about.

So I have developed a Rev application and I burnt it onto a CD. When I 
go to another machine and copy it from the CD to the computer, the file 
that is now on the computer is "read only".  Therefore if the program 
updates data files etc it cannot be done.

What is the best way to remove the "read only" property on the new file 
other than doing it manually after it has been copied. (Putting it onto 
a windows machine)

regards

Greg


From rcozens at pon.net  Fri Feb 27 18:33:06 2004
From: rcozens at pon.net (Rob Cozens)
Date: Fri, 27 Feb 2004 16:33:06 -0700
Subject: Read only
In-Reply-To: <A5B8CC40-697C-11D8-8ABB-000D9366AC66@ozemail.com.au>
References: <20040227090908.BDCF89300BB@mail.runrev.com>
 <A5B8CC40-697C-11D8-8ABB-000D9366AC66@ozemail.com.au>
Message-ID: <a05100300bc65821d3a8e@[66.52.165.189]>

>So I have developed a Rev application and I burnt it onto a CD. When 
>I go to another machine and copy it from the CD to the computer, the 
>file that is now on the computer is "read only".

Hi Greg,

Since you write "file", not "files", I assume the file is a 
standalone Revolution application created by the Distribution 
Builder.  That standalone will always be read only: neither Windows 
nor Unix allow applications to modify themselves, so Revolution 
standalones are not modifiable.

If your application makes changes that must persist beyond runtime, 
those changes must be stored in a text file, external database, or 
external stack.  The general approach is to create a "splash screen" 
standalone that opens the "real" stack, which is seen as an external 
file to the user.
-- 

Rob Cozens
CCW, Serendipity Software Company
http://www.oenolog.net/who.htm

"And I, which was two fooles, do so grow three;
Who are a little wise, the best fooles bee."

from "The Triple Foole" by John Donne (1572-1631)

From 3mcgrath at adelphia.net  Fri Feb 27 19:38:34 2004
From: 3mcgrath at adelphia.net (Thomas McGrath III)
Date: Fri, 27 Feb 2004 19:38:34 -0500
Subject: screenMouseLoc Not in Windows
In-Reply-To: <1DFA9F0A-6977-11D8-B06D-000A9567A3E6@swcp.com>
References: <1DFA9F0A-6977-11D8-B06D-000A9567A3E6@swcp.com>
Message-ID: <708B0C3C-6986-11D8-8D0D-000A95DA60FA@adelphia.net>

I'm thinking it may be Virtual PC Windows XP..........
Timing is way!! off!!!

I need to try this elsewhere.

Thanks


On Feb 27, 2004, at 5:48 PM, Dar Scott wrote:

>
> On Friday, February 27, 2004, at 11:18 AM, Thomas McGrath III wrote:
>
>> Has anyone been successful with setting the screenMouseLoc to work in 
>> windows??????
>
> on mouseUp
>    set the screenMouseLoc to 100,100
> end mouseUp
>
> This works for me.
>
> Maybe the problem is elsewhere.
>
> Dar Scott
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>
>

Thomas J. McGrath III
SCS
1000 Killarney Dr.
Pittsburgh, PA 15234
412-885-8541


From dsc at swcp.com  Fri Feb 27 19:53:39 2004
From: dsc at swcp.com (Dar Scott)
Date: Fri, 27 Feb 2004 17:53:39 -0700
Subject: screenMouseLoc Not in Windows
In-Reply-To: <708B0C3C-6986-11D8-8D0D-000A95DA60FA@adelphia.net>
Message-ID: <8C27519F-6988-11D8-B459-000A9567A3E6@swcp.com>


On Friday, February 27, 2004, at 05:38 PM, Thomas McGrath III wrote:

> I'm thinking it may be Virtual PC Windows XP..........
> Timing is way!! off!!!

What is your host?

Dar Scott


From 3mcgrath at adelphia.net  Fri Feb 27 20:29:08 2004
From: 3mcgrath at adelphia.net (Thomas McGrath III)
Date: Fri, 27 Feb 2004 20:29:08 -0500
Subject: screenMouseLoc Not in Windows
In-Reply-To: <8C27519F-6988-11D8-B459-000A9567A3E6@swcp.com>
References: <8C27519F-6988-11D8-B459-000A9567A3E6@swcp.com>
Message-ID: <80F94002-698D-11D8-8D0D-000A95DA60FA@adelphia.net>

PowerBook G4 1.25 GHz 512 MB RAM

  Tom


On Feb 27, 2004, at 7:53 PM, Dar Scott wrote:

>
> On Friday, February 27, 2004, at 05:38 PM, Thomas McGrath III wrote:
>
>> I'm thinking it may be Virtual PC Windows XP..........
>> Timing is way!! off!!!
>
> What is your host?
>
> Dar Scott
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>
>

Macintosh PowerBook G-4 OSX 10.3.1, OS 9.2.2, 1.25 GHz, 512MB RAM, Rev 
2.1.2


Advanced Media Group
Thomas J McGrath III	? 2003 ?	3mcgrath at adelphia.net
220 Drake Road, Bethel Park, PA 15102




From pixelbird at interisland.net  Fri Feb 27 21:50:10 2004
From: pixelbird at interisland.net (Ken Norris)
Date: Fri, 27 Feb 2004 18:50:10 -0800
Subject: are image objects moveable?
In-Reply-To: <20040228003422.667FE93007A@mail.runrev.com>
Message-ID: <BC6541E2.5342%pixelbird@interisland.net>

Hi Judy, Marty, et al,

> Date: Fri, 27 Feb 2004 14:09:26 -0800 (PST)
> From: Judy Perry <jperryl at ecs.fullerton.edu>
> Subject: Re: are image objects moveable?
> 
> I think we recently had this very discussion...  I, too, have a hard time
> letting go of 'on mouseStillDown' but I'm fairly certain I recall having
> it explained that this approach ties up the processor and that the new
> 'grab' (?) command is preferable.
-----------
Right...'grab' is preferable:

on mouseDown
   grab me
end mouseDown

...BTW, this kinda fooled me...it's an 'old' post (last Wednesday). Three
days worth of posts to this list is getting difficult to wade through. I'm
surprised you picked it up ;-)

Ken N.


From jacque at hyperactivesw.com  Fri Feb 27 21:57:04 2004
From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay)
Date: Fri, 27 Feb 2004 20:57:04 -0600
Subject: Read only
In-Reply-To: <A5B8CC40-697C-11D8-8ABB-000D9366AC66@ozemail.com.au>
References: <20040227090908.BDCF89300BB@mail.runrev.com>
	<A5B8CC40-697C-11D8-8ABB-000D9366AC66@ozemail.com.au>
Message-ID: <40400380.2050601@hyperactivesw.com>

On 2/27/04 5:28 PM, Greg Wills wrote:

> So I have developed a Rev application and I burnt it onto a CD. When I 
> go to another machine and copy it from the CD to the computer, the file 
> that is now on the computer is "read only".  Therefore if the program 
> updates data files etc it cannot be done.
> 
> What is the best way to remove the "read only" property on the new file 
> other than doing it manually after it has been copied. (Putting it onto 
> a windows machine)

As far as I can tell, that's one of the main reasons that Windows apps 
use installers, because files from CDs are always copied as read-only. I 
usually solve the problem by avoiding it, and .zip the files before 
burning to CD. If you want to change it from within your Rev app, 
there's probably a shell command.

-- 
Jacqueline Landman Gay         |     jacque at hyperactivesw.com
HyperActive Software           |     http://www.hyperactivesw.com

From chipp at chipp.com  Fri Feb 27 22:19:53 2004
From: chipp at chipp.com (Chipp Walters)
Date: Fri, 27 Feb 2004 21:19:53 -0600
Subject: Read only
In-Reply-To: <40400380.2050601@hyperactivesw.com>
Message-ID: <ACEELABEAIANJNCEJFMAOECHJDAA.chipp@chipp.com>

WinXP shell script to unlock a file:

if the platform is "Win32" then
   put the filename of the topstack into tfile
   replace "/" with "\" in tfile
   put "attrib"&& quote & tfile & quote && "-R" into DosCommand
   set the hideConsoleWindows to true
   put shell (DosCommand) into theError
end if

Also, if you use the altArchive plugin and a stack is set as read-only, you
can unlock it by pressing the alt-key and clicking the altArchive button.
(hidden trick)

--Chipp

>If you want to change it from within your Rev app,
> there's probably a shell command.
>
> --
> Jacqueline Landman Gay         |     jacque at hyperactivesw.com



From mwieder at ahsoftware.net  Fri Feb 27 23:21:56 2004
From: mwieder at ahsoftware.net (Mark Wieder)
Date: Fri, 27 Feb 2004 20:21:56 -0800
Subject: support contract
In-Reply-To: <403FAB4A.1060100@hyperactivesw.com>
References: <00163C7E-6944-11D8-9059-000A95859272@earthlink.net>
	<1036847215.20040227110915@ahsoftware.net>
	<403FAB4A.1060100@hyperactivesw.com>
Message-ID: <4140008018.20040227202156@ahsoftware.net>

Jacque-

Friday, February 27, 2004, 12:40:42 PM, you wrote:

JLG> If you ever need to contact support, just mention in the body of your
JLG> letter that you are an Enterprise user. That will help get things
JLG> rolling and I won't make the same embarrassing mistake I made with Mark.
JLG> I really should have known better; my brain was on auto-pilot when I
JLG> responded to him.

Thanks, but that's not really the point, I think. When I renewed my
license it was because my time had come and it was time to shell out
for another year. There wasn't anything about a new contract, or about
what I would now be getting or not getting for that. I suppose that if
I didn't know about the 10-occurrences-per-year email support there
must be other things in the contract I also don't know about.

I'm not bringing this up to whine about my own situation - like I
said, I've never emailed support about rev. These lists give me much
more support than I could ever ask for. Literally. I have trouble
keeping up with all the reading, even in digest mode.

I know things got thrown way out of kilter when Heather was out, so I
cut everyone a lot of slack. And I *do* appreciate your picking up the
ball in helping out with support. I do think, though, that everyone
should end up on the same square at some point.

...at any rate... I seem to have 10 opportunities to get support from
runrev, and I don't expect to be using them. Can I auction them off to
the highest bidder? What do I hear, folks? I haven't checked the
support agreements, but these things can't be cheap... Come on - let's
start the bidding going...

-- 
-Mark Wieder
 mwieder at ahsoftware.net


From jacque at hyperactivesw.com  Sat Feb 28 00:12:35 2004
From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay)
Date: Fri, 27 Feb 2004 23:12:35 -0600
Subject: support contract
In-Reply-To: <4140008018.20040227202156@ahsoftware.net>
References: <00163C7E-6944-11D8-9059-000A95859272@earthlink.net>
	<1036847215.20040227110915@ahsoftware.net>
	<403FAB4A.1060100@hyperactivesw.com>
	<4140008018.20040227202156@ahsoftware.net>
Message-ID: <40402343.6050809@hyperactivesw.com>

On 2/27/04 10:21 PM, Mark Wieder wrote:

> Thanks, but that's not really the point, I think. When I renewed my
> license it was because my time had come and it was time to shell out
> for another year. There wasn't anything about a new contract, or about
> what I would now be getting or not getting for that. I suppose that if
> I didn't know about the 10-occurrences-per-year email support there
> must be other things in the contract I also don't know about.

"Contract" was the wrong word; I should have just said something like 
"registration letter" or "licensing confirmation letter." Pro users who 
upgrade to Enterprise are entitled to what is listed on the web site. I 
didn't mean to imply there were any secrets.

When a license is purchased, the user gets an email. It contains their 
unlock code, mentions that the customer is entitled to ten support 
incidents, explains how to claim them, and says the customer will be 
subscribed to the mailing list.

The advantages of an Enterprise license are listed here:

<http://runrev.com/Revolution1/licensing1.html>

There is an option in the online store to renew old Pro licenses. 
Renewed Pro licenses become Enterprise licenses.

-- 
Jacqueline Landman Gay         |     jacque at hyperactivesw.com
HyperActive Software           |     http://www.hyperactivesw.com

From pixelbird at interisland.net  Sat Feb 28 01:06:22 2004
From: pixelbird at interisland.net (Ken Norris)
Date: Fri, 27 Feb 2004 22:06:22 -0800
Subject: Menu problems
In-Reply-To: <20040227032555.722D99300A1@mail.runrev.com>
Message-ID: <BC656FDD.534A%pixelbird@interisland.net>

Howdy,

Mac OS9.2.1 

Using Menu Bulider, I created a menubar with a new menu called "HH Windows".
It just opens stacks with the names in the menuitems. Not much to it.

The Docs clearly state that the menubar for a Mac will appear at the top of
the screen, but it doesn't. It appeared at the top of the stack. Undersized
and with small textfonts too, BTW.

The behavior goes directly against what the docs say should happen. Does
anyone have clue what's going on?

TIA,
Ken N.


From janschenkel at yahoo.com  Sat Feb 28 01:43:25 2004
From: janschenkel at yahoo.com (Jan Schenkel)
Date: Fri, 27 Feb 2004 22:43:25 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Menu problems
In-Reply-To: <BC656FDD.534A%pixelbird@interisland.net>
Message-ID: <20040228064325.47476.qmail@web60505.mail.yahoo.com>

--- Ken Norris <pixelbird at interisland.net> wrote:
> Howdy,
> 
> Mac OS9.2.1 
> 
> Using Menu Bulider, I created a menubar with a new
> menu called "HH Windows".
> It just opens stacks with the names in the
> menuitems. Not much to it.
> 
> The Docs clearly state that the menubar for a Mac
> will appear at the top of
> the screen, but it doesn't. It appeared at the top
> of the stack. Undersized
> and with small textfonts too, BTW.
> 
> The behavior goes directly against what the docs say
> should happen. Does
> anyone have clue what's going on?
> 
> TIA,
> Ken N.
> 

Hi Ken,

Have you set this group as your stack's menubar ?
Either go to the Menu Builder, edit the group and
click the chexkbox that sets it as the menubar on
MacOS, or go to the stack properties palette and set
the menu bar to the short name of your menubar group.

Hope this helped,

Jan Schenkel.

=====
"As we grow older, we grow both wiser and more foolish at the same time."  (La Rochefoucauld)

__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Get better spam protection with Yahoo! Mail.
http://antispam.yahoo.com/tools

From kray at sonsothunder.com  Sat Feb 28 01:49:43 2004
From: kray at sonsothunder.com (Ken Ray)
Date: Sat, 28 Feb 2004 00:49:43 -0600
Subject: Menu problems
In-Reply-To: <BC656FDD.534A%pixelbird@interisland.net>
Message-ID: <006501c3fdc7$0ca672a0$6601a8c0@LightningFlash>

Ken, check to see if the "editMenus" property is turned on for the
stack. If so, set it to false, and it should collapse the menu at the
top of the stack and put menus in the menubar.

Ken Ray
Sons of Thunder Software
Email: kray at sonsothunder.com
Web Site: http://www.sonsothunder.com/ 

> -----Original Message-----
> From: use-revolution-bounces at lists.runrev.com 
> [mailto:use-revolution-bounces at lists.runrev.com] On Behalf Of 
> Ken Norris
> Sent: Saturday, February 28, 2004 12:06 AM
> To: use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> Subject: Menu problems
> 
> 
> Howdy,
> 
> Mac OS9.2.1 
> 
> Using Menu Bulider, I created a menubar with a new menu 
> called "HH Windows". It just opens stacks with the names in 
> the menuitems. Not much to it.
> 
> The Docs clearly state that the menubar for a Mac will appear 
> at the top of the screen, but it doesn't. It appeared at the 
> top of the stack. Undersized and with small textfonts too, BTW.
> 
> The behavior goes directly against what the docs say should 
> happen. Does anyone have clue what's going on?
> 
> TIA,
> Ken N.
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com 
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-> revolution
> 



From pixelbird at interisland.net  Sat Feb 28 02:57:33 2004
From: pixelbird at interisland.net (Ken Norris)
Date: Fri, 27 Feb 2004 23:57:33 -0800
Subject: Menu problems
In-Reply-To: <20040228065027.D2BF0930079@mail.runrev.com>
Message-ID: <BC6589ED.5353%pixelbird@interisland.net>

on 2/27/04 10:50 PM, use-revolution-request at lists.runrev.com at
use-revolution-request at lists.runrev.com wrote:

> Date: Fri, 27 Feb 2004 22:43:25 -0800 (PST)
> From: Jan Schenkel <janschenkel at yahoo.com>
> Subject: Re: Menu problems

> Have you set this group as your stack's menubar ?
> Either go to the Menu Builder, edit the group and
> click the chexkbox that sets it as the menubar on
> MacOS, or go to the stack properties palette and set
> the menu bar to the short name of your menubar group.
> 
> Hope this helped,
-----------
I checked the "Set as Menubar on Mac OS" checkbox.

Now I get a menubar, but it has a file menu and two Help menus, and the new
one I made isn't there at all, even though Menu Builder says it is.

Very frustrating.

Ken N.


From janschenkel at yahoo.com  Sat Feb 28 03:03:46 2004
From: janschenkel at yahoo.com (Jan Schenkel)
Date: Sat, 28 Feb 2004 00:03:46 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Serious applications
In-Reply-To: <a05100304bc63c9249868@[66.52.165.71]>
Message-ID: <20040228080346.17516.qmail@web60504.mail.yahoo.com>

--- Rob Cozens <rcozens at pon.net> wrote:
> Hi Again, Jose.
> 
> In case you missed the announcement, let me point
> out that you have 
> an opportunity to discuss all facets of the Rev<>SQL
> options 
> face-to-face with Jan Schenkel, one of the leading
> authorities in 
> this area, by attending the upcoming European Rev
> Conference in 
> Malta.  Check recent List archives, or contact
> <sims at ezpzapps.com> 
> for details.
> 
> Wish I could go!   :{(
> 
> Rob Cozens
> 

Thanks for the compliment, Rob -- well, what can I say
after such an introduction ?

First, that as someone who makes accounting and order
processing apps for a living, I had better know
something about databases ?  ;-)

Even though that doesn't automatically make me an
expert in all things database, I am going to give
attendees to the European Revolution Conference a
solid overview of what our favourite development
platform has to offer for people seeking to build
'serious' applications.

Here's the shortlist of topics I'll handle under the
title "Building Business Applications with Rev" :
 * Database controls
 * Master detail forms
 * Reports and Labels
 * Integrating internet data into your business apps
   + Static web pages
   + CGI Scripts with Rev
   + Web Services - SOAP calls

In short, you will receive an introduction to using
Revolution as your main development platform in a
3-tier application model.

For more information on the European Revolution
Conference, read the original announcement here :
<http://lists.runrev.com/pipermail/use-revolution/2004-February/032266.html>
or contact the organiser directly :
<rev at techietours.com>

Looking forward to seeing you all there,

Jan Schenkel
--
PROFESSIONAL SOFTWARE nv
Software + Services = Solutions.

=====
"As we grow older, we grow both wiser and more foolish at the same time."  (La Rochefoucauld)

__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Get better spam protection with Yahoo! Mail.
http://antispam.yahoo.com/tools

From pixelbird at interisland.net  Sat Feb 28 03:11:18 2004
From: pixelbird at interisland.net (Ken Norris)
Date: Sat, 28 Feb 2004 00:11:18 -0800
Subject: Menu problems
In-Reply-To: <20040228065027.D2BF0930079@mail.runrev.com>
Message-ID: <BC658D26.5354%pixelbird@interisland.net>

P.S.

I just sent:

> Now I get a menubar, but it has a file menu and two Help menus, and the new
> one I made isn't there at all, even though Menu Builder says it is.

> Very frustrating.
-----------
I looked again. The second 'Help' menu has the items which are supposed to
be in my 'HH Windows' menu (which isn't there) _underneath_ the Baloons and
other stuff that is in the regular OS Help menu.

What the??? How did _that_ happen?

This makes no sense at all.

Even _more_ frustrating.

Ken N.


From ambassador at fourthworld.com  Sat Feb 28 03:15:46 2004
From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin)
Date: Sat, 28 Feb 2004 00:15:46 -0800
Subject: Menu problems
In-Reply-To: <BC658D26.5354%pixelbird@interisland.net>
References: <BC658D26.5354%pixelbird@interisland.net>
Message-ID: <40404E32.6090106@fourthworld.com>

Ken Norris wrote:

> I looked again. The second 'Help' menu has the items which are supposed to
> be in my 'HH Windows' menu (which isn't there) _underneath_ the Baloons and
> other stuff that is in the regular OS Help menu.
> 
> What the??? How did _that_ happen?
> 
> This makes no sense at all.

It becomes clearer when you remember that the menus in the Mac menu bar 
are drawn in order of the button layers of the menu group.

-- 
  Richard Gaskin
  ___________________________________________________________
  Ambassador at FourthWorld.com       http://www.FourthWorld.com

From sims at ezpzapps.com  Sat Feb 28 05:27:11 2004
From: sims at ezpzapps.com (sims)
Date: Sat, 28 Feb 2004 11:27:11 +0100
Subject: Serious applications
In-Reply-To: <20040228080346.17516.qmail@web60504.mail.yahoo.com>
References: <20040228080346.17516.qmail@web60504.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <a05200f02bc6618fbd228@[10.0.0.2]>

Also at the EuroDevCon with Jan and Malte will be the world famous Klaus!
I asked him to do some tricky things like wrestle alligators in a tub 
of yellow snow
while making a multi-media application or the even more life threatening
recitation of Victorian poetry but he said no... "not dangerous enough!".
This man has guts folks!

Klaus will be performing his opera
"From click to dawn..."
A day in the life of the message-hierarchy"

Klaus is going to impersonate ALL persons/objects in the message-hierarchy
with their real-life voices, gestures and attitudes..."

I begged him to have sense as it surely is too much for one man
but he insists!

Note: No children will be allowed in the room when Klaus is on stage,
ambulances and medical personnel will be in attendance for the inevitable
incapacitations which shall surely ensue.

So, as Jan said...
>For more information on the European Revolution
>Conference, read the original announcement here :
><http://lists.runrev.com/pipermail/use-revolution/2004-February/032266.html>
>or contact the organiser directly :
<rev at techietours.com>

See you there!

sims
rev at techietours.com
www.TechieTours.com

From mpetrides at earthlink.net  Sat Feb 28 07:52:27 2004
From: mpetrides at earthlink.net (Marian Petrides)
Date: Sat, 28 Feb 2004 07:52:27 -0500
Subject: support contract
In-Reply-To: <40402343.6050809@hyperactivesw.com>
References: <00163C7E-6944-11D8-9059-000A95859272@earthlink.net>
	<1036847215.20040227110915@ahsoftware.net>
	<403FAB4A.1060100@hyperactivesw.com>
	<4140008018.20040227202156@ahsoftware.net>
	<40402343.6050809@hyperactivesw.com>
Message-ID: <F64D7A27-69EC-11D8-B3B8-000A959D005E@earthlink.net>

I had a Pro license which I renewed at the discounted (early-bird)  
renewal price last August, so I now have an Enterprise license. The 
renewal letter says nothing about a support package.  Somehow I seem to 
recall that (discounted) renewals didn't get any support.

How do I tell if that's the case or if I have any support options?  
There's nothing listed on the website beyond the $399 renewal with 5 
support incidents.  Is my recollection correct?

Matian

On Feb 28, 2004, at 12:12 AM, J. Landman Gay wrote:

> On 2/27/04 10:21 PM, Mark Wieder wrote:
>
>> Thanks, but that's not really the point, I think. When I renewed my
>> license it was because my time had come and it was time to shell out
>> for another year. There wasn't anything about a new contract, or about
>> what I would now be getting or not getting for that. I suppose that if
>> I didn't know about the 10-occurrences-per-year email support there
>> must be other things in the contract I also don't know about.
>
> "Contract" was the wrong word; I should have just said something like 
> "registration letter" or "licensing confirmation letter." Pro users 
> who upgrade to Enterprise are entitled to what is listed on the web 
> site. I didn't mean to imply there were any secrets.
>
> When a license is purchased, the user gets an email. It contains their 
> unlock code, mentions that the customer is entitled to ten support 
> incidents, explains how to claim them, and says the customer will be 
> subscribed to the mailing list.
>
> The advantages of an Enterprise license are listed here:
>
> <http://runrev.com/Revolution1/licensing1.html>
>
> There is an option in the online store to renew old Pro licenses. 
> Renewed Pro licenses become Enterprise licenses.
>
> -- 
> Jacqueline Landman Gay         |     jacque at hyperactivesw.com
> HyperActive Software           |     http://www.hyperactivesw.com
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>


From dsc at swcp.com  Sat Feb 28 11:33:55 2004
From: dsc at swcp.com (Dar Scott)
Date: Sat, 28 Feb 2004 09:33:55 -0700
Subject: screenMouseLoc Not in Windows
In-Reply-To: <80F94002-698D-11D8-8D0D-000A95DA60FA@adelphia.net>
Message-ID: <E6D9E350-6A0B-11D8-93F7-000A9567A3E6@swcp.com>


On Friday, February 27, 2004, at 06:29 PM, Thomas McGrath III wrote:

> PowerBook G4 1.25 GHz 512 MB RAM
>>> I'm thinking it may be Virtual PC Windows XP..........
>> What is your host?

Arg.  I broke my XP on VPC on my OS X host.  I need to reinstall it.  I 
have VPC hosted on XP, too, and have some XP clients, so when I get 
around to installing Rev again on those, I hope to try it.  (I need to 
upgrade to VPC 2004 and hope to try this before.)

Dar Scott


From revdan at danshafer.com  Sat Feb 28 12:26:38 2004
From: revdan at danshafer.com (Dan Shafer)
Date: Sat, 28 Feb 2004 09:26:38 -0800
Subject: Dan's book
In-Reply-To: <030DD1BE-6928-11D8-B3B8-000A959D005E@earthlink.net>
References: <BC64222D.1E810%bfr@nwlink.com>
	<030DD1BE-6928-11D8-B3B8-000A959D005E@earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <442C44E0-6A13-11D8-A690-0030656FB5D4@danshafer.com>

Marian....

Enlighten me please.

Of what earthly value is an index in an electronic book you can search? 
Isn't an index sort of redundant? I've never once seen a PDF book with 
an index I thought was at all useful.

The printed version does have an index, by the way.

On Feb 27, 2004, at 5:22 AM, Marian Petrides wrote:

> One thing that is sorely missing in the PDF version (and I assume, 
> thus, in the printed version) of the first volume is an index.  I hope 
> that when the third volume is complete it will include an index for 
> the entire set.
>
> Marian
>
> On Feb 27, 2004, at 1:22 AM, Bruce Robertson wrote:
>
>>>>
>>> I've been trying for several days to buy the downloadable
>>> (electronic/PDF) version of Dan Shafer's book but cannot find a link
>>> that takes me to where it is available.  All links I have found are 
>>> for
>>> the hardcopy version which is  a) not immediately available and b) 
>>> more
>>> expensive.
>>
>>
>> And c) says it comes with a CD but it doesn't. I've brought this up 
>> with
>> Runrev and they're looking into it.
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> use-revolution mailing list
>> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>>
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>


From 3mcgrath at adelphia.net  Sat Feb 28 12:40:58 2004
From: 3mcgrath at adelphia.net (Thomas McGrath III)
Date: Sat, 28 Feb 2004 12:40:58 -0500
Subject: Dan's book
In-Reply-To: <442C44E0-6A13-11D8-A690-0030656FB5D4@danshafer.com>
References: <BC64222D.1E810%bfr@nwlink.com>
	<030DD1BE-6928-11D8-B3B8-000A959D005E@earthlink.net>
	<442C44E0-6A13-11D8-A690-0030656FB5D4@danshafer.com>
Message-ID: <444FDC81-6A15-11D8-8D0D-000A95DA60FA@adelphia.net>

.02 cents

I myself prefer to visually peruse a list IF I don't know exactly what 
I am looking for. If I know I just do a search. If I don't know exactly 
then a search is useless.

I have seen multi-page pdf's with indexes that I first browse through 
and then later after becoming familiar with the pdf I then do searches.

Tom

On Feb 28, 2004, at 12:26 PM, Dan Shafer wrote:

> Marian....
>
> Enlighten me please.
>
> Of what earthly value is an index in an electronic book you can 
> search? Isn't an index sort of redundant? I've never once seen a PDF 
> book with an index I thought was at all useful.
>
> The printed version does have an index, by the way.
>
> On Feb 27, 2004, at 5:22 AM, Marian Petrides wrote:
>
>> One thing that is sorely missing in the PDF version (and I assume, 
>> thus, in the printed version) of the first volume is an index.  I 
>> hope that when the third volume is complete it will include an index 
>> for the entire set.
>>
>> Marian
>>
>> On Feb 27, 2004, at 1:22 AM, Bruce Robertson wrote:
>>
>>>>>
>>>> I've been trying for several days to buy the downloadable
>>>> (electronic/PDF) version of Dan Shafer's book but cannot find a link
>>>> that takes me to where it is available.  All links I have found are 
>>>> for
>>>> the hardcopy version which is  a) not immediately available and b) 
>>>> more
>>>> expensive.
>>>
>>>
>>> And c) says it comes with a CD but it doesn't. I've brought this up 
>>> with
>>> Runrev and they're looking into it.
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> use-revolution mailing list
>>> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> use-revolution mailing list
>> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>>
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>
>

Thomas J. McGrath III
SCS
1000 Killarney Dr.
Pittsburgh, PA 15234
412-885-8541


From jacque at hyperactivesw.com  Sat Feb 28 13:26:20 2004
From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay)
Date: Sat, 28 Feb 2004 12:26:20 -0600
Subject: support contract
In-Reply-To: <F64D7A27-69EC-11D8-B3B8-000A959D005E@earthlink.net>
References: <00163C7E-6944-11D8-9059-000A95859272@earthlink.net>
	<1036847215.20040227110915@ahsoftware.net>
	<403FAB4A.1060100@hyperactivesw.com>
	<4140008018.20040227202156@ahsoftware.net>
	<40402343.6050809@hyperactivesw.com>
	<F64D7A27-69EC-11D8-B3B8-000A959D005E@earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <4040DD4C.1040100@hyperactivesw.com>

On 2/28/04 6:52 AM, Marian Petrides wrote:

> I had a Pro license which I renewed at the discounted (early-bird)  
> renewal price last August, so I now have an Enterprise license. The 
> renewal letter says nothing about a support package.  Somehow I seem to 
> recall that (discounted) renewals didn't get any support.
> 
> How do I tell if that's the case or if I have any support options? 

Please contact support and I'll make Heather look it up. :)

-- 
Jacqueline Landman Gay         |     jacque at hyperactivesw.com
HyperActive Software           |     http://www.hyperactivesw.com

From mpetrides at earthlink.net  Sat Feb 28 13:28:59 2004
From: mpetrides at earthlink.net (Marian Petrides)
Date: Sat, 28 Feb 2004 13:28:59 -0500
Subject: Dan's book-why an index???
In-Reply-To: <442C44E0-6A13-11D8-A690-0030656FB5D4@danshafer.com>
References: <BC64222D.1E810%bfr@nwlink.com>
	<030DD1BE-6928-11D8-B3B8-000A959D005E@earthlink.net>
	<442C44E0-6A13-11D8-A690-0030656FB5D4@danshafer.com>
Message-ID: <F99C9352-6A1B-11D8-B3B8-000A959D005E@earthlink.net>

 >>>>Of what earthly value is an index in an electronic book you can 
search? Isn't an index sort of redundant? I've never once seen a PDF 
book with an index I thought was at all useful.

Not if you print the PDF and use the hard copy.

I prefer to read hard copy books--largely because I like highlighting 
and annotating them with marginal notes. I seriously thought of buying 
the hardcopy version but I wanted your book yesterday (as opposed to in 
a week or two post-shipping). Sooooo... I bought it and promptly 
printed it out--all 300 pages plus or minus.  Now I use the hardcopy 
exclusively.  As a consequence, the lack of an index is a real drawback 
for me.

FWIW, I gather others also are printing the whole thing out because 
someone was bemoaning the cost of getting Kinko's to print and bind the 
PDF.

If you've already done an index, why would you not include it in the 
PDF??  Is there a way for purchasers of the PDF to get the index, too?

Marian


On Feb 28, 2004, at 12:26 PM, Dan Shafer wrote:

> Marian....
>
> Enlighten me please.
>
> Of what earthly value is an index in an electronic book you can 
> search? Isn't an index sort of redundant? I've never once seen a PDF 
> book with an index I thought was at all useful.
>
> The printed version does have an index, by the way.
>
> On Feb 27, 2004, at 5:22 AM, Marian Petrides wrote:
>
>> One thing that is sorely missing in the PDF version (and I assume, 
>> thus, in the printed version) of the first volume is an index.  I 
>> hope that when the third volume is complete it will include an index 
>> for the entire set.
>>
>> Marian
>>
>> On Feb 27, 2004, at 1:22 AM, Bruce Robertson wrote:
>>
>>>>>
>>>> I've been trying for several days to buy the downloadable
>>>> (electronic/PDF) version of Dan Shafer's book but cannot find a link
>>>> that takes me to where it is available.  All links I have found are 
>>>> for
>>>> the hardcopy version which is  a) not immediately available and b) 
>>>> more
>>>> expensive.
>>>
>>>
>>> And c) says it comes with a CD but it doesn't. I've brought this up 
>>> with
>>> Runrev and they're looking into it.
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> use-revolution mailing list
>>> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> use-revolution mailing list
>> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>>
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>


From livfoss at blueyonder.co.uk  Sat Feb 28 13:46:03 2004
From: livfoss at blueyonder.co.uk (Graham Samuel)
Date: Sat, 28 Feb 2004 18:46:03 +0000
Subject: Losing a Group's memory
Message-ID: <6.0.3.0.2.20040228184556.01d03e08@pop3.blueyonder.co.uk>

I have a group consisting of a couple  of images which I distort from 
within a handler in order to give a simple animation effect of a shutter 
shutting. This works fine, but when I edit the group and change the size of 
one or more of the individual images (for example if I change the height of 
one of them) and stop editing and go back to my 'distorting' behaviour, the 
image(s) reverts to its/their original size. Likewise, if I alter the 
height of the whole group, it also reverts to the original height during 
the shutter animation process, although there is nothing in the code of the 
handler to make it do this.

This must mean that the group retains a memory of the size of its 
components. I don't want this - if I want the height changed, I want it to 
stay that way - so I need my group to 'forget' this original-size 
information. Does anyone know if there is any way of doing this? If not, I 
will have to re-craft my images in some kind of image editor and replace 
the ones I have in the group now, which to say the least is a tedious process.

TIA

Graham

---------------------------------------------------
Graham Samuel / The Living Fossil Co. / UK & France  



From pixelbird at interisland.net  Sat Feb 28 13:51:00 2004
From: pixelbird at interisland.net (Ken Norris)
Date: Sat, 28 Feb 2004 10:51:00 -0800
Subject: Menu problems
In-Reply-To: <20040228170022.E8BF9930085@mail.runrev.com>
Message-ID: <BC662314.535F%pixelbird@interisland.net>

Hi Richard,

> Date: Sat, 28 Feb 2004 00:15:46 -0800
> From: Richard Gaskin <ambassador at fourthworld.com>
> Subject: Re: Menu problems
> 
> Ken Norris wrote:
> 
>> I looked again. The second 'Help' menu has the items which are supposed to
>> be in my 'HH Windows' menu (which isn't there) _underneath_ the Baloons and
>> other stuff that is in the regular OS Help menu.
>> 
>> What the??? How did _that_ happen?
>> 
>> This makes no sense at all.
> 
> It becomes clearer when you remember that the menus in the Mac menu bar
> are drawn in order of the button layers of the menu group.
----------
So you're saying that the Help being the last menu is an absolute, and that
any following menus will always end up becoming a part of a Help menu
(that's what happened)? That's not something I would remember because it's
not something I ever knew. Where does it say that?

Ken N.


From scott at tactilemedia.com  Sat Feb 28 14:04:45 2004
From: scott at tactilemedia.com (Scott Rossi)
Date: Sat, 28 Feb 2004 11:04:45 -0800
Subject: Losing a Group's memory
In-Reply-To: <6.0.3.0.2.20040228184556.01d03e08@pop3.blueyonder.co.uk>
Message-ID: <BC66264D.A770%scott@tactilemedia.com>

On 2/28/04 10:46 AM, "Graham Samuel" <livfoss at blueyonder.co.uk> wrote:

> I have a group consisting of a couple  of images which I distort from
> within a handler in order to give a simple animation effect of a shutter
> shutting. This works fine, but when I edit the group and change the size of
> one or more of the individual images (for example if I change the height of
> one of them) and stop editing and go back to my 'distorting' behaviour, the
> image(s) reverts to its/their original size. Likewise, if I alter the
> height of the whole group, it also reverts to the original height during
> the shutter animation process, although there is nothing in the code of the
> handler to make it do this.
> 
> This must mean that the group retains a memory of the size of its
> components. I don't want this - if I want the height changed, I want it to
> stay that way - so I need my group to 'forget' this original-size
> information. Does anyone know if there is any way of doing this? If not, I
> will have to re-craft my images in some kind of image editor and replace
> the ones I have in the group now, which to say the least is a tedious process.

You probably need to set the lockLoc of the images to true.  Groups
automatically resize to display their entire contents.  If you lock the
group, you'll cut off the display of anything within the group, so leave the
group as is and try locking the images.

Regards,

Scott Rossi
Creative Director
Tactile Media, Development & Design
-----
E: scott at tactilemedia.com
W: http://www.tactilemedia.com


From jtenny at willamette.edu  Sat Feb 28 14:05:48 2004
From: jtenny at willamette.edu (John Tenny)
Date: Sat, 28 Feb 2004 11:05:48 -0800
Subject: font between OS 9 and X
Message-ID: <1E36D721-6A21-11D8-A8C1-000A95A4EDD2@willamette.edu>

I've heard that using Ariel helps with the look of the font between 
Windows and Mac. My problem is between the PPC and OSX builds. I'm 
using Ariel everywhere, but the font in 9 is of much poorer quality 
than in X. I'm testing in Classic, and the results are not the typical 
mac quality. Clues?

John


From jperryl at ecs.fullerton.edu  Sat Feb 28 14:08:31 2004
From: jperryl at ecs.fullerton.edu (Judy Perry)
Date: Sat, 28 Feb 2004 11:08:31 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Dan's book-why an index???
In-Reply-To: <F99C9352-6A1B-11D8-B3B8-000A959D005E@earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.4.33.0402281104060.10403-100000@titan.ecs.fullerton.edu>

Yes, exactly.  And I was the person bemoaning Kinkos (mostly, their
inability to obtain/use the latest version of Reader; they
couldn't/wouldn't open the file!).


There are all kinds of reasons why people may prefer printed material to
online material:

*Readability (higher print resolution)
*User characteristics (hiliting text, scribbling in margins, etc.)
*Where you can 'use' it (can't lug my laptop in the tub/in bed with low
light/outdoors with high light).

etc.

So, why did I buy the PDF?  Like Marian, I suddenly decided that I wanted
it NOW.

Like Thomas, I sometimes like to look over the index for either something
related to what I think I want to do OR for new, interesting things to
tackle (which, by nature, I wouldn't know necessarily the correct word for
searching purposes).

Judy

On Sat, 28 Feb 2004, Marian Petrides wrote:

>  >>>>Of what earthly value is an index in an electronic book you can
> search? Isn't an index sort of redundant? I've never once seen a PDF
> book with an index I thought was at all useful.
>
> Not if you print the PDF and use the hard copy.


From jacque at hyperactivesw.com  Sat Feb 28 14:33:56 2004
From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay)
Date: Sat, 28 Feb 2004 13:33:56 -0600
Subject: Menu problems
In-Reply-To: <BC662314.535F%pixelbird@interisland.net>
References: <BC662314.535F%pixelbird@interisland.net>
Message-ID: <4040ED24.7060104@hyperactivesw.com>

On 2/28/04 12:51 PM, Ken Norris wrote:

> So you're saying that the Help being the last menu is an absolute, and that
> any following menus will always end up becoming a part of a Help menu
> (that's what happened)? That's not something I would remember because it's
> not something I ever knew. Where does it say that?

Documentation -> Menus -> About menus and the menu bar -> Menu bars on 
Mac and OS X systems -> Special menu items

All info after "about menus and the menu bar" above is actually on the 
same card.
-- 
Jacqueline Landman Gay         |     jacque at hyperactivesw.com
HyperActive Software           |     http://www.hyperactivesw.com

From livfoss at blueyonder.co.uk  Sat Feb 28 14:43:37 2004
From: livfoss at blueyonder.co.uk (Graham Samuel)
Date: Sat, 28 Feb 2004 19:43:37 +0000
Subject: Another Group mystery
Message-ID: <6.0.3.0.2.20040228194026.01c4edc8@pop3.blueyonder.co.uk>

I have two rectangular images each with a height of 126 pixels. I align 
them so that the tops (and therefore the bottoms) of the images are at the 
same level. I group them, and the group is 134 pixels high. There is no 
other image or graphic in the group. Can anyone say why this should be, and 
what if anything I can do about it? If I did something wrong, what was it?

TIA

Graham

---------------------------------------------------
Graham Samuel / The Living Fossil Co. / UK & France  



From jacque at hyperactivesw.com  Sat Feb 28 14:51:59 2004
From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay)
Date: Sat, 28 Feb 2004 13:51:59 -0600
Subject: Another Group mystery
In-Reply-To: <6.0.3.0.2.20040228194026.01c4edc8@pop3.blueyonder.co.uk>
References: <6.0.3.0.2.20040228194026.01c4edc8@pop3.blueyonder.co.uk>
Message-ID: <4040F15F.3000300@hyperactivesw.com>

On 2/28/04 1:43 PM, Graham Samuel wrote:

> I have two rectangular images each with a height of 126 pixels. I align 
> them so that the tops (and therefore the bottoms) of the images are at 
> the same level. I group them, and the group is 134 pixels high. There is 
> no other image or graphic in the group. Can anyone say why this should 
> be, and what if anything I can do about it? If I did something wrong, 
> what was it?

Groups have margins, just like fields. Set the margin to 0.

-- 
Jacqueline Landman Gay         |     jacque at hyperactivesw.com
HyperActive Software           |     http://www.hyperactivesw.com

From revolution at jaedworks.com  Sat Feb 28 15:44:23 2004
From: revolution at jaedworks.com (Jeanne A. E. DeVoto)
Date: Sat, 28 Feb 2004 12:44:23 -0800
Subject: Dan's book
In-Reply-To: <442C44E0-6A13-11D8-A690-0030656FB5D4@danshafer.com>
References: <BC64222D.1E810%bfr@nwlink.com>
 <030DD1BE-6928-11D8-B3B8-000A959D005E@earthlink.net>
 <442C44E0-6A13-11D8-A690-0030656FB5D4@danshafer.com>
Message-ID: <p06010230bc66ac65ba9d@[10.0.1.8]>

At 9:26 AM -0800 2/28/2004, Dan Shafer wrote:
>Of what earthly value is an index in an electronic book you can 
>search? Isn't an index sort of redundant? I've never once seen a PDF 
>book with an index I thought was at all useful.

Indexes actually can be very useful even in searchable documents:

- To provide a pointer to the main place that a commonly-used word is 
discussed (imagine searching for "field", for example).

- To make synonyms accessible (someone new to Revolution might look 
for "code window" instead of "script editor", for instance, or 
"subroutine" instead of "handler"). Index entries such as "code 
window, see script editor" can help lead a reader to the right place, 
where a full-text search would turn up no hits.

- To make browsing easier, especially with 2-level index entries 
like, for example:
   fields
     changing text in
     creating
     HTML and
     locked and unlocked
     searching in

An index is just one more structured tool for presenting a book's 
contents. Full-text search is also very useful, but since it's 
unstructured by its nature, the useful area of searching isn't the 
same as the useful area of using an index, although they do overlap.

(This is all assuming a good index, of course. If the index is 
mechanically generated, or created by an indexer who isn't familiar 
with the book's subject, fuhgeddaboutit. ;-)
-- 
jeanne a. e. devoto ~ jaed at jaedworks.com
http://www.jaedworks.com

From nnoydb at excite.com  Sat Feb 28 17:36:44 2004
From: nnoydb at excite.com (Kevin)
Date: Sat, 28 Feb 2004 17:36:44 -0500 (EST)
Subject: Using libs from several stacks
Message-ID: <20040228223644.6552D3DF0@xprdmailfe12.nwk.excite.com>


I know I have seen the answer to this one in the archives but I cannot seem to locate it now that I need it.  I have several stacks "using" the same LIB when I open them I get a prompt that the lib stack is already loaded what adjustments must i make to prevent this?

Kevin




-==-=-=-=-=-=-==-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-==-=-=-=-=-=-
Disclaimer:

Any resemblance between the above views and those of my
employer, my terminal, or the view out my window are purely
coincidental. 
Any resemblance between the above and my own views is non-deterministic.

 The question of the existence of views in the absence of anyone to hold
them
is left as an exercise for the reader. The question of the existence of
the reader
 is left as an exercise for the second god coefficient. 
(A discussion of non-orthogonal, non-integral polytheism is beyond the
scope of this article.)



_______________________________________________
Join Excite! - http://www.excite.com
The most personalized portal on the Web!

From klaus at major-k.de  Sat Feb 28 17:48:12 2004
From: klaus at major-k.de (Klaus Major)
Date: Sat, 28 Feb 2004 23:48:12 +0100
Subject: Using libs from several stacks
In-Reply-To: <20040228223644.6552D3DF0@xprdmailfe12.nwk.excite.com>
References: <20040228223644.6552D3DF0@xprdmailfe12.nwk.excite.com>
Message-ID: <304EBAFC-6A40-11D8-84B9-000A27B49A96@major-k.de>

Hi Kevin,

>
> I know I have seen the answer to this one in the archives but
> I cannot seem to locate it now that I need it.  I have several
> stacks "using" the same LIB when I open them I get a prompt
> that the lib stack is already loaded what adjustments must i make to 
> prevent this?

you only need to "start using xyz" once!

That stack is then added to the end of the message passing hierarchie.

Which means: once you "start(ed) using xyz", xyz IS in use,
and therefore the prompt :-)

You can query if a stack is in use or not  with "the 
stacksInUse"-function.

Hope that helps...

> Kevin

Klaus Major
klaus at major-k.de
www.major-k.de


From kray at sonsothunder.com  Sat Feb 28 18:03:17 2004
From: kray at sonsothunder.com (Ken Ray)
Date: Sat, 28 Feb 2004 17:03:17 -0600
Subject: Using libs from several stacks
In-Reply-To: <304EBAFC-6A40-11D8-84B9-000A27B49A96@major-k.de>
Message-ID: <006701c3fe4f$10f99750$6601a8c0@LightningFlash>

Yes, and once a stack is been put into the "stacksInUse" (or
libraryStacks), it is available to all currently running stacks.

Ken Ray
Sons of Thunder Software
Email: kray at sonsothunder.com
Web Site: http://www.sonsothunder.com/ 

> -----Original Message-----
> From: use-revolution-bounces at lists.runrev.com 
> [mailto:use-revolution-bounces at lists.runrev.com] On Behalf Of 
> Klaus Major
> Sent: Saturday, February 28, 2004 4:48 PM
> To: nnoydb at excite.com; How to use Revolution
> Subject: Re: Using libs from several stacks
> 
> 
> Hi Kevin,
> 
> >
> > I know I have seen the answer to this one in the archives 
> but I cannot 
> > seem to locate it now that I need it.  I have several 
> stacks "using" 
> > the same LIB when I open them I get a prompt that the lib stack is 
> > already loaded what adjustments must i make to prevent this?
> 
> you only need to "start using xyz" once!
> 
> That stack is then added to the end of the message passing hierarchie.
> 
> Which means: once you "start(ed) using xyz", xyz IS in use,
> and therefore the prompt :-)
> 
> You can query if a stack is in use or not  with "the 
> stacksInUse"-function.
> 
> Hope that helps...
> 
> > Kevin
> 
> Klaus Major
> klaus at major-k.de
> www.major-k.de
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com 
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-> revolution
> 



From jtenny at willamette.edu  Sat Feb 28 18:34:53 2004
From: jtenny at willamette.edu (John Tenny)
Date: Sat, 28 Feb 2004 15:34:53 -0800
Subject: Dan's book
In-Reply-To: <p06010230bc66ac65ba9d@[10.0.1.8]>
References: <BC64222D.1E810%bfr@nwlink.com>
	<030DD1BE-6928-11D8-B3B8-000A959D005E@earthlink.net>
	<442C44E0-6A13-11D8-A690-0030656FB5D4@danshafer.com>
	<p06010230bc66ac65ba9d@[10.0.1.8]>
Message-ID: <B58C2464-6A46-11D8-A8C1-000A95A4EDD2@willamette.edu>

Did I understand things wrong? I was one of the early buyers of the 
three volume set, including on-line help and membership in the pro-club 
thing, providing at least a tidbit of the front money for their 
development.
	Now I understand the agreement has been changed to ebook chapters 
voted on by the group. That's OK I suspose as I can think of it as 
getting the chapters early, one at a time. Just so long as the chapters 
with only one vote also get written in a timely fashion, index and all.
	But didn't I hear/see that we early contributors would get an email or 
something when a chapter was out? Or is there someplace I should be 
checking, downloading, etc.
John



Peace,

    John

John L. Tenny, Ph.D.
Flowing Thought Educational Solutions
eCOVE: The Observation Toolkit Software
503-508-3398
jtenny at flowing-thought.com
-----------------


From DouglasMackay at blueyonder.co.uk  Sat Feb 28 19:31:54 2004
From: DouglasMackay at blueyonder.co.uk (Douglas Mackay)
Date: Sun, 29 Feb 2004 00:31:54 -0000
Subject: Rev on ICQ ?
Message-ID: <001a01c3fe5b$6e800ab0$51b82952@PATRIOT>

I think it would be realy cool for some people to start a comunity on I.C.Q. , I so often want to ask questions "live" with other developers . 
What do you other revolultionist think  ? 
Doug

From mpetrides at earthlink.net  Sat Feb 28 19:34:01 2004
From: mpetrides at earthlink.net (Marian Petrides)
Date: Sat, 28 Feb 2004 19:34:01 -0500
Subject: Rev on ICQ ?
In-Reply-To: <001a01c3fe5b$6e800ab0$51b82952@PATRIOT>
References: <001a01c3fe5b$6e800ab0$51b82952@PATRIOT>
Message-ID: <F88DB3C4-6A4E-11D8-B3B8-000A959D005E@earthlink.net>

I agree... it does sound cool!

Marian
On Feb 28, 2004, at 7:31 PM, Douglas Mackay wrote:

> I think it would be realy cool for some people to start a comunity on 
> I.C.Q. , I so often want to ask questions "live" with other developers 
> .
> What do you other revolultionist think  ?
> Doug
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>


From ambassador at fourthworld.com  Sat Feb 28 20:03:06 2004
From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin)
Date: Sat, 28 Feb 2004 17:03:06 -0800
Subject: Rev on ICQ ?
In-Reply-To: <001a01c3fe5b$6e800ab0$51b82952@PATRIOT>
References: <001a01c3fe5b$6e800ab0$51b82952@PATRIOT>
Message-ID: <40413A4A.7020205@fourthworld.com>

Douglas Mackay wrote:

> I think it would be realy cool for some people to start a comunity on I.C.Q. , I so often want to ask questions "live" with other developers . 
> What do you other revolultionist think  ? 

Is ICQ interoperable with AIM yet?  They're both owned by AOL.

A lot of Revvers have AIM.  I haven't used ICQ in years.  I don't mind 
it, but it got to the point where I had AOL, ICQ, Yahoo, IRC, and MSN 
running, and no RAM left for my work. :) I decided to pick one and 
stopped publishing my handles for other services.

Reminds me of the studid days of email, when you have to have separate 
addresses for AOL, Compuserve, Prodigy and the Internet, and none of 
them could talk with one another.

I hope I'm wrong about IM; seems long overdue for these vendors to 
either interoperate or just get out of the way.

-- 
  Richard Gaskin
  Fourth World Media Corporation
  ___________________________________________________________
  Ambassador at FourthWorld.com       http://www.FourthWorld.com

From kray at sonsothunder.com  Sat Feb 28 20:39:08 2004
From: kray at sonsothunder.com (Ken Ray)
Date: Sat, 28 Feb 2004 19:39:08 -0600
Subject: Rev on ICQ ?
In-Reply-To: <40413A4A.7020205@fourthworld.com>
Message-ID: <007c01c3fe64$d63220e0$6601a8c0@LightningFlash>

> I hope I'm wrong about IM; seems long overdue for these vendors to 
> either interoperate or just get out of the way.

Actually it turns out that there are several IM "aggregators" that
provide a shell to multiple IM systems. For example, I use Proteus for
OS X (www.indigofield.com) and I know others that use Trillian for
Windows (www.ceruleanstudios.com), and there are a few others out
there...

Unfortunately with most IM aggregators, some functionality is lost from
a specific IM client (for example, Proteus can't handle file transfer
from MSN Messenger clients yet).

Ah well,

Ken Ray
Sons of Thunder Software
Email: kray at sonsothunder.com
Web Site: http://www.sonsothunder.com/ 



From chrism at lumin.us  Sat Feb 28 22:06:45 2004
From: chrism at lumin.us (Christopher Mitchell)
Date: Sat, 28 Feb 2004 21:06:45 -0600
Subject: Rev on ICQ ?
In-Reply-To: <007c01c3fe64$d63220e0$6601a8c0@LightningFlash>
References: <007c01c3fe64$d63220e0$6601a8c0@LightningFlash>
Message-ID: <4EB7CD28-6A64-11D8-8744-000393B64EDC@lumin.us>

for OSX I heartily recommend Fire http://fire.sourceforge.net/ ... very 
well done, overall.  I use it for Jabber and AIM.  Of course some 
functionality is lost, as mentioned, but overall I find it to be the 
best choice for me.

Yours,
Chris
On Feb 28, 2004, at 7:39 PM, Ken Ray wrote:

> www.indigofield.com


From chrism at lumin.us  Sat Feb 28 22:11:04 2004
From: chrism at lumin.us (Christopher Mitchell)
Date: Sat, 28 Feb 2004 21:11:04 -0600
Subject: using a custom property as a sort key ?
Message-ID: <E8F72B50-6A64-11D8-8744-000393B64EDC@lumin.us>

Howdy,

Is it possible to use a custom property as a sort key?  I have a stack 
of flashcards that have an embedded "permanent" order in the form of a 
custom property called Index.  I use a pretty crude script to flip 
through all the cards (after being shuffled, aka sort on key random), 
find the one with index 1, go to it, then sort on it.

Is it possible to say something like:   go to card with Index of 1

? (obviously that is not appropriate transcript, as i'm searching for 
the syntax)... this would be similar to saying something along the 
lines of     go to card with short name "xyz"

Surely this is implemented, and I just can't find it.

Yours,
Chris


From jacque at hyperactivesw.com  Sat Feb 28 23:07:10 2004
From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay)
Date: Sat, 28 Feb 2004 22:07:10 -0600
Subject: using a custom property as a sort key ?
In-Reply-To: <E8F72B50-6A64-11D8-8744-000393B64EDC@lumin.us>
References: <E8F72B50-6A64-11D8-8744-000393B64EDC@lumin.us>
Message-ID: <4041656E.4050609@hyperactivesw.com>

On 2/28/04 9:11 PM, Christopher Mitchell wrote:

> Howdy,
> 
> Is it possible to use a custom property as a sort key?

You mean, to sort cards?

> I have a stack 
> of flashcards that have an embedded "permanent" order in the form of a 
> custom property called Index.  I use a pretty crude script to flip 
> through all the cards (after being shuffled, aka sort on key random), 
> find the one with index 1, go to it, then sort on it.
> 
> Is it possible to say something like:   go to card with Index of 1

I'm not sure I'm clear on what you want to do, but if it is to return 
the cards to their "native" order, then the usual method is to place the 
index number into a hidden background field (a grouped field) that is 
placed on all cards. Then you can just "sort cards of this stack by fld 
'index'".

If you are just trying to go to a card with a certain index number 
rather than trying to rearrange the cards, then a naming convention is 
easiest. Name your cards "flash1", "flash2", etc. Then you can:

  go cd ("flash"&index)

Another way: keep the custom card properties and when the stack starts 
up, create an array by scanning through all the cards and storing their 
index property number along with the card ID. Then when you want to go 
to a particular index, look it up in the array and go to that card ID.

-- 
Jacqueline Landman Gay         |     jacque at hyperactivesw.com
HyperActive Software           |     http://www.hyperactivesw.com

From kray at sonsothunder.com  Sat Feb 28 23:10:19 2004
From: kray at sonsothunder.com (Ken Ray)
Date: Sat, 28 Feb 2004 22:10:19 -0600
Subject: using a custom property as a sort key ?
In-Reply-To: <E8F72B50-6A64-11D8-8744-000393B64EDC@lumin.us>
Message-ID: <00a001c3fe79$f4a02620$6601a8c0@LightningFlash>

How's this:

  mark cards where (the Index of this card = 1)
  go next marked card
  unmark all cards  -- just to be safe

HTH,

Ken Ray
Sons of Thunder Software
Email: kray at sonsothunder.com
Web Site: http://www.sonsothunder.com/ 


> -----Original Message-----
> From: use-revolution-bounces at lists.runrev.com 
> [mailto:use-revolution-bounces at lists.runrev.com] On Behalf Of 
> Christopher Mitchell
> Sent: Saturday, February 28, 2004 9:11 PM
> To: How to use Revolution
> Subject: using a custom property as a sort key ?
> 
> 
> Howdy,
> 
> Is it possible to use a custom property as a sort key?  I 
> have a stack 
> of flashcards that have an embedded "permanent" order in the 
> form of a 
> custom property called Index.  I use a pretty crude script to flip 
> through all the cards (after being shuffled, aka sort on key random), 
> find the one with index 1, go to it, then sort on it.
> 
> Is it possible to say something like:   go to card with Index of 1
> 
> ? (obviously that is not appropriate transcript, as i'm searching for 
> the syntax)... this would be similar to saying something along the 
> lines of     go to card with short name "xyz"
> 
> Surely this is implemented, and I just can't find it.
> 
> Yours,
> Chris
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com 
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-> revolution
> 



From m.mackenzie at sasktel.net  Sat Feb 28 23:16:51 2004
From: m.mackenzie at sasktel.net (Mark MacKenzie)
Date: Sat, 28 Feb 2004 22:16:51 -0600
Subject: Array, Array, who has got the array?
Message-ID: <404167B3.4060104@sasktel.net>

Good evening (or morning).  My current project could probably stand to 
have at least one array in it to handle complicated groupings of data.  
However, I have never used one or created one before.

I looked at the excellent Frogsbreath.rev project but quite frankly 
couldn't undrestand the actual workings and how they might apply to my work.

Does anyone have a "Dummie's" introduction to arrays?  What they are, 
how they can be made to work and how best to design them?  A practical 
tutorial would be nice.


I have tried to look into the documentation but it is fragmentary and 
difficult for a rank beginner (as far as arrays and matraices go) to 
grasp readily.

Any help greatfully accepted.

Mark MacKenzie


From chrism at lumin.us  Sat Feb 28 23:55:10 2004
From: chrism at lumin.us (Christopher Mitchell)
Date: Sat, 28 Feb 2004 22:55:10 -0600
Subject: using a custom property as a sort key ?
In-Reply-To: <4041656E.4050609@hyperactivesw.com>
References: <E8F72B50-6A64-11D8-8744-000393B64EDC@lumin.us>
	<4041656E.4050609@hyperactivesw.com>
Message-ID: <73BAC1C6-6A73-11D8-8744-000393B64EDC@lumin.us>


On Feb 28, 2004, at 10:07 PM, J. Landman Gay wrote:
>>
>> Is it possible to use a custom property as a sort key?
>
> You mean, to sort cards?

yes, as you guessed to resort them back to their native order

>
> I'm not sure I'm clear on what you want to do, but if it is to return 
> the cards to their "native" order, then the usual method is to place 
> the index number into a hidden background field (a grouped field) that 
> is placed on all cards. Then you can just "sort cards of this stack by 
> fld 'index'".

well, that's what I want to do by custom property.  the trouble is if 
you don't sort on the card whether by field or customer property with 
value 1, they get sorted in a VERY bizarre order.  I can't even really 
explain what the order is based on if you did a "sort cards of this 
stack by this card" on a card that was not actually the first one.

using a hidden background field to do the work of a custom property is 
a kludge.

> If you are just trying to go to a card with a certain index number 
> rather than trying to rearrange the cards, then a naming convention is 
> easiest. Name your cards "flash1", "flash2", etc. Then you can:
>
>  go cd ("flash"&index)

can't do this as the card names are already tied into associated 
audiofiles.

> Another way: keep the custom card properties and when the stack starts 
> up, create an array by scanning through all the cards and storing 
> their index property number along with the card ID. Then when you want 
> to go to a particular index, look it up in the array and go to that 
> card ID.
>
this might be something to look into.  it would be essentially what I 
am doing now on each "re-order" command, but would keep from having to 
do the search each time.  This seems awkward though to have to create 
and manage a separate array just to access custom properties - rather 
than access them directly.  I guess though that custom properties 
aren't really equals in Transcript terms to native properties.  (short 
name, card ID, etc... ) this is unfortunate.

Actually Ken's response is probably the simplest answer for doing what 
I want to do.  It is halfway between what I want to do and your 
methods.  There are just so many ways of doing things in transcript!

Thanks very much!
Chris


From chrism at lumin.us  Sat Feb 28 23:58:09 2004
From: chrism at lumin.us (Christopher Mitchell)
Date: Sat, 28 Feb 2004 22:58:09 -0600
Subject: using a custom property as a sort key ?
In-Reply-To: <00a001c3fe79$f4a02620$6601a8c0@LightningFlash>
References: <00a001c3fe79$f4a02620$6601a8c0@LightningFlash>
Message-ID: <DE8790EC-6A73-11D8-8744-000393B64EDC@lumin.us>

This looks like something just about what I was hoping for.  It is 
still not my perfect syntax but if it does the same thing then so  be 
it.  What I'm really looking for (ideally) is a command that bypasses 
the marking/going step and just goes there.

go card where (the Index of this card = 1)

or

go card with the Index = 1

an exact parallel of something like: go card with the short name "foo"

In any case these beat my solution - but I was very pleased with myself 
for having made it work on my own even in a very crude script.

Thanks,
Chris
On Feb 28, 2004, at 10:10 PM, Ken Ray wrote:

> How's this:
>
>   mark cards where (the Index of this card = 1)
>   go next marked card
>   unmark all cards  -- just to be safe
>
> HTH,
>
> Ken Ray
> Sons of Thunder Software
> Email: kray at sonsothunder.com
> Web Site: http://www.sonsothunder.com/
>
>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: use-revolution-bounces at lists.runrev.com
>> [mailto:use-revolution-bounces at lists.runrev.com] On Behalf Of
>> Christopher Mitchell
>> Sent: Saturday, February 28, 2004 9:11 PM
>> To: How to use Revolution
>> Subject: using a custom property as a sort key ?
>>
>>
>> Howdy,
>>
>> Is it possible to use a custom property as a sort key?  I
>> have a stack
>> of flashcards that have an embedded "permanent" order in the
>> form of a
>> custom property called Index.  I use a pretty crude script to flip
>> through all the cards (after being shuffled, aka sort on key random),
>> find the one with index 1, go to it, then sort on it.
>>
>> Is it possible to say something like:   go to card with Index of 1
>>
>> ? (obviously that is not appropriate transcript, as i'm searching for
>> the syntax)... this would be similar to saying something along the
>> lines of     go to card with short name "xyz"
>>
>> Surely this is implemented, and I just can't find it.
>>
>> Yours,
>> Chris
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> use-revolution mailing list
>> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-> revolution
>>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>


From pixelbird at interisland.net  Sun Feb 29 00:24:54 2004
From: pixelbird at interisland.net (Ken Norris)
Date: Sat, 28 Feb 2004 21:24:54 -0800
Subject: More scrolling images
In-Reply-To: <20040228170022.E8BF9930085@mail.runrev.com>
Message-ID: <BC66B7A6.5377%pixelbird@interisland.net>

Howdy,

OK, I now know how to scroll an image in a stack window, _but_

Is it possible to scroll a large image inside a graphic?

Ken N.



From kray at sonsothunder.com  Sun Feb 29 00:33:00 2004
From: kray at sonsothunder.com (Ken Ray)
Date: Sat, 28 Feb 2004 23:33:00 -0600
Subject: More scrolling images
In-Reply-To: <BC66B7A6.5377%pixelbird@interisland.net>
Message-ID: <00b601c3fe85$823c6f10$6601a8c0@LightningFlash>

> OK, I now know how to scroll an image in a stack window, _but_
> 
> Is it possible to scroll a large image inside a graphic?

Can you give an example of what you're trying to do with this? I'm
sorry, but I'm having trouble wrapping my head around that...

Ken Ray
Sons of Thunder Software
Email: kray at sonsothunder.com
Web Site: http://www.sonsothunder.com/ 



From dsc at swcp.com  Sun Feb 29 01:44:56 2004
From: dsc at swcp.com (Dar Scott)
Date: Sat, 28 Feb 2004 23:44:56 -0700
Subject: More scrolling images
In-Reply-To: <BC66B7A6.5377%pixelbird@interisland.net>
Message-ID: <C99D92AA-6A82-11D8-93F7-000A9567A3E6@swcp.com>


On Saturday, February 28, 2004, at 10:24 PM, Ken Norris wrote:

> OK, I now know how to scroll an image in a stack window, _but_
>
> Is it possible to scroll a large image inside a graphic?

If you want a rectangle, yes.  Do the same thing as on the card for the 
other one.  Make the group smaller.  Put a border on it.  lockloc.  If 
you want to move it around, put a group around it and set the margins 
of that to 0, but don't lockloc that one.

Dar Scott


From revolution at jaedworks.com  Sat Feb 28 22:07:22 2004
From: revolution at jaedworks.com (Jeanne A. E. DeVoto)
Date: Sat, 28 Feb 2004 19:07:22 -0800
Subject: Serious applications
In-Reply-To: <a05200f02bc6618fbd228@[10.0.0.2]>
References: <20040228080346.17516.qmail@web60504.mail.yahoo.com>
 <a05200f02bc6618fbd228@[10.0.0.2]>
Message-ID: <p0601023dbc6707cb267d@[10.0.1.8]>

At 11:27 AM +0100 2/28/2004, sims wrote:
>Klaus will be performing his opera
>"From click to dawn..."
>A day in the life of the message-hierarchy"
>
>Klaus is going to impersonate ALL persons/objects in the message-hierarchy
>with their real-life voices, gestures and attitudes..."

I hope there will be a DVD of his award-winning performance afterward. ;-)
-- 
jeanne a. e. devoto ~ jaed at jaedworks.com
http://www.jaedworks.com

From revolution at jaedworks.com  Sun Feb 29 02:06:57 2004
From: revolution at jaedworks.com (Jeanne A. E. DeVoto)
Date: Sat, 28 Feb 2004 23:06:57 -0800
Subject: using a custom property as a sort key ?
In-Reply-To: <E8F72B50-6A64-11D8-8744-000393B64EDC@lumin.us>
References: <E8F72B50-6A64-11D8-8744-000393B64EDC@lumin.us>
Message-ID: <p06010256bc673fc6451f@[10.0.1.8]>

At 9:11 PM -0600 2/28/2004, Christopher Mitchell wrote:
>Is it possible to use a custom property as a sort key?  I have a 
>stack of flashcards

Sure:

   sort cards of this stack by the myIndex of this card


>Is it possible to say something like:   go to card with Index of 1

   unmark all cards
   mark cards where the myIndex of this card is 1
   go next marked
-- 
jeanne a. e. devoto ~ jaed at jaedworks.com
http://www.jaedworks.com

From jacque at hyperactivesw.com  Sun Feb 29 02:10:35 2004
From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay)
Date: Sun, 29 Feb 2004 01:10:35 -0600
Subject: using a custom property as a sort key ?
In-Reply-To: <73BAC1C6-6A73-11D8-8744-000393B64EDC@lumin.us>
References: <E8F72B50-6A64-11D8-8744-000393B64EDC@lumin.us>
	<4041656E.4050609@hyperactivesw.com>
	<73BAC1C6-6A73-11D8-8744-000393B64EDC@lumin.us>
Message-ID: <4041906B.2050007@hyperactivesw.com>

On 2/28/04 10:55 PM, Christopher Mitchell wrote:

> using a hidden background field to do the work of a custom property is a 
> kludge.

Okay. How about:

  sort cards of this stack by (the index of this cd)

I didn't try it but it should work. Let us know.

> Actually Ken's response is probably the simplest answer for doing what I 
> want to do.  It is halfway between what I want to do and your methods.  

Right. Note that marking cards does not reorder them in the stack. If 
you don't care about the card order and you just want to go to a 
specific card, then using marked cards is definitely simpler.

I think there are two different things going on. Sorting the cards 
re-orders them but doesn't necessarily move you to a specific card. 
Marking one and then going to it takes you there but doesn't rearrange 
the cards in the stack. I'm still not quite sure which one you want to do.

-- 
Jacqueline Landman Gay         |     jacque at hyperactivesw.com
HyperActive Software           |     http://www.hyperactivesw.com

From psahores at easynet.fr  Sun Feb 29 02:27:59 2004
From: psahores at easynet.fr (Pierre Sahores)
Date: Sun, 29 Feb 2004 08:27:59 +0100
Subject: Array, Array, who has got the array?
In-Reply-To: <404167B3.4060104@sasktel.net>
References: <404167B3.4060104@sasktel.net>
Message-ID: <CD39B011-6A88-11D8-9FE7-000A95C61E96@easynet.fr>

Hello,

Test the array behaviors in using something like this :

	put "0" into c
		repeat 5
		add 1 to c
		Put "what you want" && random(24) in yourArray[c]
	end repeat

	put "0" into c
	repeat 5
		wait 1 sec
		add 1 to c
		put yourArray[c]
	end repeat

Regards,


Le 29 f?vr. 04, ? 05:16, Mark MacKenzie a ?crit :

> Good evening (or morning).  My current project could probably stand to 
> have at least one array in it to handle complicated groupings of data. 
>  However, I have never used one or created one before.
>
> I looked at the excellent Frogsbreath.rev project but quite frankly 
> couldn't undrestand the actual workings and how they might apply to my 
> work.
>
> Does anyone have a "Dummie's" introduction to arrays?  What they are, 
> how they can be made to work and how best to design them?  A practical 
> tutorial would be nice.
>
>
> I have tried to look into the documentation but it is fragmentary and 
> difficult for a rank beginner (as far as arrays and matraices go) to 
> grasp readily.
>
> Any help greatfully accepted.
>
> Mark MacKenzie
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>
>
-- 
Bien cordialement, Pierre Sahores

100, rue de Paris
F - 77140 Nemours

psahores at easynet.fr

GSM:   +33 6 03 95 77 70
Pro:      +33 1 41 60 52 68
Dom:    +33 1 64 45 05 33
Fax:      +33 1 64 45 05 33

Inspection acad?mique de Seine-Saint-Denis
Applications et SGBD ACID SQL (WEB et PGI)
Penser et produire "delta de productivit?"


From psahores at easynet.fr  Sun Feb 29 02:35:02 2004
From: psahores at easynet.fr (Pierre Sahores)
Date: Sun, 29 Feb 2004 08:35:02 +0100
Subject: Serious applications
In-Reply-To: <p0601023dbc6707cb267d@[10.0.1.8]>
References: <20040228080346.17516.qmail@web60504.mail.yahoo.com>
	<a05200f02bc6618fbd228@[10.0.0.2]> <p0601023dbc6707cb267d@[10.0.1.8]>
Message-ID: <C8F18EE4-6A89-11D8-9FE7-000A95C61E96@easynet.fr>


Le 29 f?vr. 04, ? 04:07, Jeanne A. E. DeVoto a ?crit :

> At 11:27 AM +0100 2/28/2004, sims wrote:
>> Klaus will be performing his opera
>> "From click to dawn..."
>> A day in the life of the message-hierarchy"
>>
>> Klaus is going to impersonate ALL persons/objects in the 
>> message-hierarchy
>> with their real-life voices, gestures and attitudes..."
>
> I hope there will be a DVD of his award-winning performance afterward. 
> ;-)

Or, at least, a "movie trailer" i could stick on one of the QTSS  i'm 
hosting, for unicast playback availaibility ;)
> -- 
> jeanne a. e. devoto ~ jaed at jaedworks.com
> http://www.jaedworks.com
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>
>
-- 
Bien cordialement, Pierre Sahores

100, rue de Paris
F - 77140 Nemours

psahores at easynet.fr

GSM:   +33 6 03 95 77 70
Pro:      +33 1 41 60 52 68
Dom:    +33 1 64 45 05 33
Fax:      +33 1 64 45 05 33

Inspection acad?mique de Seine-Saint-Denis
Applications et SGBD ACID SQL (WEB et PGI)
Penser et produire "delta de productivit?"


From ops at myesa.com  Sun Feb 29 04:12:30 2004
From: ops at myesa.com (Ops)
Date: Sun, 29 Feb 2004 03:12:30 -0600
Subject: Rev on ICQ ?
In-Reply-To: <E08B5D47-6B47-11D8-96E7-000393AA08D2@qldlearning.com>
References: <E08B5D47-6B47-11D8-96E7-000393AA08D2@qldlearning.com>
Message-ID: <4041ACFE.3050402@myesa.com>

of course....what would be lost in all this...is the *valuable* 
information trail that is created by the list itself...just the (valid) 
banter so far about which IM technology would be "the one"...is, well, 
"telling"...and (IMHO) proof enough that the concept, while novel and 
not without merit...is futile to even consider with today's 
technology(s) and the "fruits" which would become inaccessible to the 
list at large....

Opie

Brian Yennie wrote:

> I should add as bait to many that the Jabber protocol is relatively easy 
> to implement.
> A Rev chat client could easily tap into the major IM networks that way.
> 
>> for OSX I heartily recommend Fire http://fire.sourceforge.net/ ... 
>> very well done, overall.  I use it for Jabber and AIM.  Of course some 
>> functionality is lost, as mentioned, but overall I find it to be the 
>> best choice for me.
>>
>> Yours,
>> Chris
>> On Feb 28, 2004, at 7:39 PM, Ken Ray wrote:
>>
>>> www.indigofield.com
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> use-revolution mailing list
>> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>>
>>
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
> 
> 

From FlexibleLearning at aol.com  Sun Feb 29 06:03:16 2004
From: FlexibleLearning at aol.com (FlexibleLearning at aol.com)
Date: Sun, 29 Feb 2004 06:03:16 EST
Subject: Using customProperties to mark cds
Message-ID: <11f.2b651757.2d7320f4@aol.com>

>>   mark cards where (the Index of this card = 1)
>>   go next marked card
>>   unmark all cards  -- just to be safe

Good grief... It works!

Since which engine version can we do this???

/H

From livfoss at blueyonder.co.uk  Sun Feb 29 05:58:37 2004
From: livfoss at blueyonder.co.uk (Graham Samuel)
Date: Sun, 29 Feb 2004 10:58:37 +0000
Subject: Another Group mystery
Message-ID: <6.0.3.0.2.20040229105406.01ceac58@pop3.blueyonder.co.uk>

On Sat, 28 Feb 2004 13:51:59 -0600, "J. Landman Gay" <jacque at hyperactivesw.com>


>Groups have margins, just like fields. Set the margin to 0.

Sooo simple! I guess my mental picture a group goes back to graphics 
programs like MacDraw (remember MacDraw? - beautifully logical), where 
grouping objects just resulted in a single object whose rectangle was the 
max of the edges of its components. Of course in RR, groups are kind of 
multifunctional so they have a lot of properties I tend not to remember 
(until I need them, of course).

Thanks

Graham

---------------------------------------------------
Graham Samuel / The Living Fossil Co. / UK & France  



From livfoss at blueyonder.co.uk  Sun Feb 29 06:03:34 2004
From: livfoss at blueyonder.co.uk (Graham Samuel)
Date: Sun, 29 Feb 2004 11:03:34 +0000
Subject: Limitations of RR for drawing apps?
Message-ID: <6.0.3.0.2.20040229105845.01ce9700@pop3.blueyonder.co.uk>

Sorry if this has been discussed before, but I vaguely remember someone 
(Richard G?) saying that RunRev is not entirely suitable for creating 
vector drawing (and - maybe - painting) programs in the style of MacDraw or 
the drawing/painting features of AppleWorks: I have in mind to add to an 
application a sort of drawing-and-painting module for creating icon-like 
objects via a tool palette. Are there serious limitations to RR which would 
prevent this? I just need a steer from the list to find out if I'd be 
wasting my time...

TIA

Graham

---------------------------------------------------
Graham Samuel / The Living Fossil Co. / UK & France  



From janselid at hotmail.com  Sun Feb 29 06:14:07 2004
From: janselid at hotmail.com (=?iso-8859-1?Q?Jan_S=E6lid?=)
Date: Sun, 29 Feb 2004 12:14:07 +0100
Subject: Detect individual Collisions
Message-ID: <BAY1-DAV406Ykwn9Wgt0000c2ac@hotmail.com>

Hi there

I'm trying to make a timeline-bar where you can add or delete rectangles containing "whatever". The user should be able to move a rectangle left or right, but if it collides with another rectangle, it should stop....

Because the user is able to delete and add new rectangles I have to make some sort of function check if the moving rectangle is going to collide with other rectangles to the left and right. (like the timeline in Adobe Premiere) I know this is possible, but how do I do it fast..... Checking every rectangle with repeat is to slow.....and the only idea I have now is to make a list in a hidden field-table for every new created rectangle......

any ideas....?

From jbv.silences at Club-Internet.fr  Sun Feb 29 06:26:41 2004
From: jbv.silences at Club-Internet.fr (jbv)
Date: Sun, 29 Feb 2004 12:26:41 +0100
Subject: Detect individual Collisions
References: <BAY1-DAV406Ykwn9Wgt0000c2ac@hotmail.com>
Message-ID: <4041CC6C.88D66F4C@Club-Internet.fr>

Use the intersect fonction inside a repeat loop.
I did something similar last year : the user was drawing
a selection rectangle on the screen, and various objects
were changing their bordercolor in real time if they were
(or weren't) inside the selection rect. I was even able to
implement multiple selection (using the shift key and
comparing the current selection with a list of previous
selected objects).
Speed wasn't a roblem on a Mac 9600 / 300...

JB

> Hi there
>
> I'm trying to make a timeline-bar where you can add or delete rectangles containing "whatever". The user should be able to move a rectangle left or right, but if it collides with another rectangle, it should stop....
>
> Because the user is able to delete and add new rectangles I have to make some sort of function check if the moving rectangle is going to collide with other rectangles to the left and right. (like the timeline in Adobe Premiere) I know this is possible, but how do I do it fast..... Checking every rectangle with repeat is to slow.....and the only idea I have now is to make a list in a hidden field-table for every new created rectangle......
>
> any ideas....?
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution


From gwills at ozemail.com.au  Sun Feb 29 06:48:17 2004
From: gwills at ozemail.com.au (Greg Wills)
Date: Sun, 29 Feb 2004 21:18:17 +0930
Subject: Read only
In-Reply-To: <20040228065028.3EA09930082@mail.runrev.com>
References: <20040228065028.3EA09930082@mail.runrev.com>
Message-ID: <2A0FED9D-6AAD-11D8-954C-000D9366AC66@ozemail.com.au>

Thanks Rob for the reminder on the different ways to add data to 
stacks, I am beginning to master these!

Thanks Jacque for the info on zipping files. I did think that I would 
need to look into an installing program, but if zipping works then I 
will do this. Are there any solid reasons for using install programs, - 
other than guiding those who are not sure of where they should place 
programs that they install? Does anyone use a preferred installer?

Thanks Chip for the info on unlocking a file from within Rev. I will be 
trying the simplest method first (zipping) and work towards clever 
stuff as I get better at scripting etc.

Thank you all for your speedy responses.

cheers

Greg


Message: 13
Date: Fri, 27 Feb 2004 16:33:06 -0700
From: Rob Cozens <rcozens at pon.net>
Subject: Re: Read only
To: How to use Revolution <use-revolution at lists.runrev.com>
Message-ID: <a05100300bc65821d3a8e@[66.52.165.189]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed"

> So I have developed a Rev application and I burnt it onto a CD. When
> I go to another machine and copy it from the CD to the computer, the
> file that is now on the computer is "read only".

Hi Greg,

Since you write "file", not "files", I assume the file is a
standalone Revolution application created by the Distribution
Builder.  That standalone will always be read only: neither Windows
nor Unix allow applications to modify themselves, so Revolution
standalones are not modifiable.

If your application makes changes that must persist beyond runtime,
those changes must be stored in a text file, external database, or
external stack.  The general approach is to create a "splash screen"
standalone that opens the "real" stack, which is seen as an external
file to the user.
-- 

Rob Cozens
CCW, Serendipity Software Company
http://www.oenolog.net/who.htm

"And I, which was two fooles, do so grow three;
Who are a little wise, the best fooles bee."

from "The Triple Foole" by John Donne (1572-1631)



> Message: 5
> Date: Fri, 27 Feb 2004 20:57:04 -0600
> From: "J. Landman Gay" <jacque at hyperactivesw.com>
> Subject: Re: Read only
> To: How to use Revolution <use-revolution at lists.runrev.com>
> Message-ID: <40400380.2050601 at hyperactivesw.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed
>
> On 2/27/04 5:28 PM, Greg Wills wrote:
>
>> So I have developed a Rev application and I burnt it onto a CD. When I
>> go to another machine and copy it from the CD to the computer, the 
>> file
>> that is now on the computer is "read only".  Therefore if the program
>> updates data files etc it cannot be done.
>>
>> What is the best way to remove the "read only" property on the new 
>> file
>> other than doing it manually after it has been copied. (Putting it 
>> onto
>> a windows machine)
>
> As far as I can tell, that's one of the main reasons that Windows apps
> use installers, because files from CDs are always copied as read-only. 
> I
> usually solve the problem by avoiding it, and .zip the files before
> burning to CD. If you want to change it from within your Rev app,
> there's probably a shell command.
>
> -- 
> Jacqueline Landman Gay         |     jacque at hyperactivesw.com
> HyperActive Software           |     http://www.hyperactivesw.com
>
> ------------------------------
>


> Message: 6
> Date: Fri, 27 Feb 2004 21:19:53 -0600
> From: "Chipp Walters" <chipp at chipp.com>
> Subject: RE: Read only
> To: <jacque at hyperactivesw.com>,	"How to use Revolution"
> 	<use-revolution at lists.runrev.com>
> Message-ID: <ACEELABEAIANJNCEJFMAOECHJDAA.chipp at chipp.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain;	charset="US-ASCII"
>
> WinXP shell script to unlock a file:
>
> if the platform is "Win32" then
>    put the filename of the topstack into tfile
>    replace "/" with "\" in tfile
>    put "attrib"&& quote & tfile & quote && "-R" into DosCommand
>    set the hideConsoleWindows to true
>    put shell (DosCommand) into theError
> end if
>
> Also, if you use the altArchive plugin and a stack is set as 
> read-only, you
> can unlock it by pressing the alt-key and clicking the altArchive 
> button.
> (hidden trick)
>
> --Chipp
>
>> If you want to change it from within your Rev app,
>> there's probably a shell command.
>>
>> --
>> Jacqueline Landman Gay         |     jacque at hyperactivesw.com
>
>


From m.mackenzie at sasktel.net  Sun Feb 29 08:30:18 2004
From: m.mackenzie at sasktel.net (Mark MacKenzie)
Date: Sun, 29 Feb 2004 07:30:18 -0600
Subject: More scrolling images
In-Reply-To: <BC66B7A6.5377%pixelbird@interisland.net>
References: <BC66B7A6.5377%pixelbird@interisland.net>
Message-ID: <4041E96A.4080209@sasktel.net>

Forgive me for jumping in at this point but if your are looking for a 
way to scroll a very large image within a graphic with full user 
interaction take a look at an old multimedia project of mine on the 
download page.  "Thumbscroller"  How old?  Well it is way down the 
page.  If it needs updating for the current Rev let me know.

Mark MacKenzie

Ken Norris wrote:

>Howdy,
>
>OK, I now know how to scroll an image in a stack window, _but_
>
>Is it possible to scroll a large image inside a graphic?
>
>Ken N.
>
>
>_______________________________________________
>use-revolution mailing list
>use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
>http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>
>  
>


From 3mcgrath at adelphia.net  Sun Feb 29 08:31:41 2004
From: 3mcgrath at adelphia.net (Thomas McGrath III)
Date: Sun, 29 Feb 2004 08:31:41 -0500
Subject: using a custom property as a sort key ?
In-Reply-To: <DE8790EC-6A73-11D8-8744-000393B64EDC@lumin.us>
References: <00a001c3fe79$f4a02620$6601a8c0@LightningFlash>
	<DE8790EC-6A73-11D8-8744-000393B64EDC@lumin.us>
Message-ID: <9BB7F30C-6ABB-11D8-8D0D-000A95DA60FA@adelphia.net>

Chris,

Don't forget the altID of each card as well...
The altID does not change if you have them in the preferred order when 
you set the altID.

This is good to get back to the original order.

Then you can use the index of card to sort other ways.

TOM


On Feb 28, 2004, at 11:58 PM, Christopher Mitchell wrote:

> This looks like something just about what I was hoping for.  It is 
> still not my perfect syntax but if it does the same thing then so  be 
> it.  What I'm really looking for (ideally) is a command that bypasses 
> the marking/going step and just goes there.
>
> go card where (the Index of this card = 1)
>
> or
>
> go card with the Index = 1
>
> an exact parallel of something like: go card with the short name "foo"
>
> In any case these beat my solution - but I was very pleased with 
> myself for having made it work on my own even in a very crude script.
>
> Thanks,
> Chris
> On Feb 28, 2004, at 10:10 PM, Ken Ray wrote:
>
>> How's this:
>>
>>   mark cards where (the Index of this card = 1)
>>   go next marked card
>>   unmark all cards  -- just to be safe
>>
>> HTH,
>>
>> Ken Ray
>> Sons of Thunder Software
>> Email: kray at sonsothunder.com
>> Web Site: http://www.sonsothunder.com/
>>
>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: use-revolution-bounces at lists.runrev.com
>>> [mailto:use-revolution-bounces at lists.runrev.com] On Behalf Of
>>> Christopher Mitchell
>>> Sent: Saturday, February 28, 2004 9:11 PM
>>> To: How to use Revolution
>>> Subject: using a custom property as a sort key ?
>>>
>>>
>>> Howdy,
>>>
>>> Is it possible to use a custom property as a sort key?  I
>>> have a stack
>>> of flashcards that have an embedded "permanent" order in the
>>> form of a
>>> custom property called Index.  I use a pretty crude script to flip
>>> through all the cards (after being shuffled, aka sort on key random),
>>> find the one with index 1, go to it, then sort on it.
>>>
>>> Is it possible to say something like:   go to card with Index of 1
>>>
>>> ? (obviously that is not appropriate transcript, as i'm searching for
>>> the syntax)... this would be similar to saying something along the
>>> lines of     go to card with short name "xyz"
>>>
>>> Surely this is implemented, and I just can't find it.
>>>
>>> Yours,
>>> Chris
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> use-revolution mailing list
>>> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-> revolution
>>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> use-revolution mailing list
>> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>>
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>
>

Thomas J. McGrath III
SCS
1000 Killarney Dr.
Pittsburgh, PA 15234
412-885-8541


From st.king42 at ntlworld.com  Sun Feb 29 08:51:15 2004
From: st.king42 at ntlworld.com (Stephen King)
Date: Sun, 29 Feb 2004 13:51:15 -0000
Subject: Problem with Image on background property
References: <20040229115149.8A6449300AB@mail.runrev.com>
Message-ID: <002201c3fecb$19c76520$5602a8c0@athalon>

Hi all,

I'm sure this is really simple, but I can't understand what is happening.

I am experimenting with a basic database example and have an image on the
card as part of the background group. I start with a card with empty fields
and image (no file reference). I then fill in data, reference an image file
and create a new card. When I create new card, all the fields and labels are
generated as expected, and all the fields are empty as expected, but the
image is not empty. Worse, if I drag a new image in on this new card, all
other cards reflect the same image.

If its relevant, after dragging the image in, I save a thumbnail of the
image then use this as the file reference. There is a need for thumbnail
pictures elsewhere in the system.

Any ideas why each card sees the same image and why the image reference
appears on new generated cards?

I have looked at the database example in the tutorials, but it doesn't seem
to use create card (not that I can find anyway).

Cheers
Steve




From klaus at major-k.de  Sun Feb 29 08:56:47 2004
From: klaus at major-k.de (Klaus Major)
Date: Sun, 29 Feb 2004 14:56:47 +0100
Subject: Problem with Image on background property
In-Reply-To: <002201c3fecb$19c76520$5602a8c0@athalon>
References: <20040229115149.8A6449300AB@mail.runrev.com>
	<002201c3fecb$19c76520$5602a8c0@athalon>
Message-ID: <1DD920C9-6ABF-11D8-A1D6-000A27B49A96@major-k.de>

Hi Stephen,

> Hi all,
>
> I'm sure this is really simple, but I can't understand what is 
> happening.
>
> I am experimenting with a basic database example and have an image on 
> the
> card as part of the background group. I start with a card with empty 
> fields
> and image (no file reference). I then fill in data, reference an image 
> file
> and create a new card. When I create new card, all the fields and 
> labels are
> generated as expected, and all the fields are empty as expected, but 
> the
> image is not empty. Worse, if I drag a new image in on this new card, 
> all
> other cards reflect the same image.
>
> If its relevant, after dragging the image in, I save a thumbnail of the
> image then use this as the file reference. There is a need for 
> thumbnail
> pictures elsewhere in the system.
>
> Any ideas why each card sees the same image and why the image reference
> appears on new generated cards?
>
> I have looked at the database example in the tutorials, but it doesn't 
> seem
> to use create card (not that I can find anyway).

Fields can have different text on each card, but images cannot!!!

That way, once you set the filename of an image that is part of a 
background,
i wil appear on every card, where this background is placed onto...

I don't know what exactly you are doing, but you could script a 
"(pre-)opencard"
handler that will set the filename according to your cards...?

Drop a line if you need more info/assicstance :-)

> Cheers
> Steve

Regards

Klaus Major
klaus at major-k.de
www.major-k.de


From 3mcgrath at adelphia.net  Sun Feb 29 08:59:15 2004
From: 3mcgrath at adelphia.net (Thomas McGrath III)
Date: Sun, 29 Feb 2004 08:59:15 -0500
Subject: Problem with Image on background property
In-Reply-To: <002201c3fecb$19c76520$5602a8c0@athalon>
References: <20040229115149.8A6449300AB@mail.runrev.com>
	<002201c3fecb$19c76520$5602a8c0@athalon>
Message-ID: <759B6E32-6ABF-11D8-8D0D-000A95DA60FA@adelphia.net>

Steve,

Uncheck the background behavior for that group. It is shared on all 
card if checked.

If you need a backrgound group and an image then make two one with BG 
on and the other with BG off.

HTH

TOm

On Feb 29, 2004, at 8:51 AM, Stephen King wrote:

> Hi all,
>
> I'm sure this is really simple, but I can't understand what is 
> happening.
>
> I am experimenting with a basic database example and have an image on 
> the
> card as part of the background group. I start with a card with empty 
> fields
> and image (no file reference). I then fill in data, reference an image 
> file
> and create a new card. When I create new card, all the fields and 
> labels are
> generated as expected, and all the fields are empty as expected, but 
> the
> image is not empty. Worse, if I drag a new image in on this new card, 
> all
> other cards reflect the same image.
>
> If its relevant, after dragging the image in, I save a thumbnail of the
> image then use this as the file reference. There is a need for 
> thumbnail
> pictures elsewhere in the system.
>
> Any ideas why each card sees the same image and why the image reference
> appears on new generated cards?
>
> I have looked at the database example in the tutorials, but it doesn't 
> seem
> to use create card (not that I can find anyway).
>
> Cheers
> Steve
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>
>

Thomas J. McGrath III
SCS
1000 Killarney Dr.
Pittsburgh, PA 15234
412-885-8541


From kray at sonsothunder.com  Sun Feb 29 10:10:53 2004
From: kray at sonsothunder.com (Ken Ray)
Date: Sun, 29 Feb 2004 09:10:53 -0600
Subject: Using customProperties to mark cds
In-Reply-To: <11f.2b651757.2d7320f4@aol.com>
Message-ID: <012601c3fed6$3d587690$6601a8c0@LightningFlash>

> >>   mark cards where (the Index of this card = 1)
> >>   go next marked card
> >>   unmark all cards  -- just to be safe
> 
> Good grief... It works!
> 
> Since which engine version can we do this???

Marking has been in there for a while, at least since 2.1. But I know
what you mean... I keep encountering things in the language I didn't
know were there and I've been using MC/Rev for over 6 years now.

Ken Ray
Sons of Thunder Software
Email: kray at sonsothunder.com
Web Site: http://www.sonsothunder.com/ 



From jtenny at willamette.edu  Sun Feb 29 10:19:32 2004
From: jtenny at willamette.edu (John Tenny)
Date: Sun, 29 Feb 2004 07:19:32 -0800
Subject: group scripts
In-Reply-To: <759B6E32-6ABF-11D8-8D0D-000A95DA60FA@adelphia.net>
References: <20040229115149.8A6449300AB@mail.runrev.com>
	<002201c3fecb$19c76520$5602a8c0@athalon>
	<759B6E32-6ABF-11D8-8D0D-000A95DA60FA@adelphia.net>
Message-ID: <AD3A4FB6-6ACA-11D8-9E73-000A95A4EDD2@willamette.edu>

I'm so old I won't live long enough to be anything but a newbie 
(yesterday was my birthday). Oh well.

Situation: a set of buttons, grouped. The group has a script. The group 
gets ungrouped, the buttons rearranged, then regrouped.

What happened to the script?

I suspect that ungrouping was the wrong move; I should have edited the 
group, right? The reason I didn't do that was my goal was to physically 
rearrange things in relation to items not in the group, and in edit 
group everything else is hidden.   Sure glad I have previous versions 
and there's cut and paste.

John


From kray at sonsothunder.com  Sun Feb 29 10:20:23 2004
From: kray at sonsothunder.com (Ken Ray)
Date: Sun, 29 Feb 2004 09:20:23 -0600
Subject: Problem with Image on background property
In-Reply-To: <002201c3fecb$19c76520$5602a8c0@athalon>
Message-ID: <012701c3fed7$904105b0$6601a8c0@LightningFlash>

Steve,

Klaus is right... but I wanted to give a bit more detail. There are some
objects that have properties that can be shared (or not shared) among
multiple cards of a background and some that can't. Text in fields can
be made card-specific by turning off the sharedText property. Checkbox
and radio buttons can be made card-specific by turning off their
sharedHilite property. But other objects, such as images, menu buttons,
and graphics, are automatically shared across all cards of the
background, and there is no in-built property (AFAIK) to change this
behavior.

So for those kinds of objects, a good approach is to store the path to
the image (or selection in a menu button, etc.) in a custom property on
each card, and then on preOpenCard reinstate that path/selection from
the custom property before the card draws. I usually store the value
immediately after I get it, and give it a name that is very similar to
the object's name itself like:

-- For menu button "Color"

on menuPick pChoice
  set the uColorMenu of this card to pChoice
  --etc.
end menuPick

-- For images, like a person's picture in an address book
-- This is the script that sets the image, perhaps
-- clicking on the image object itself

on mouseUp
  answer file "Select an image for this person:"
  if it is not empty then
    set the fileName of me to it
    set the uPersonImage of this card to it
    -- etc.
  end if
end mouseUp

HTH,

Ken Ray
Sons of Thunder Software
Email: kray at sonsothunder.com
Web Site: http://www.sonsothunder.com/ 

> -----Original Message-----
> From: use-revolution-bounces at lists.runrev.com 
> [mailto:use-revolution-bounces at lists.runrev.com] On Behalf Of 
> Stephen King
> Sent: Sunday, February 29, 2004 7:51 AM
> To: use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> Subject: Problem with Image on background property
> 
> 
> Hi all,
> 
> I'm sure this is really simple, but I can't understand what 
> is happening.
> 
> I am experimenting with a basic database example and have an 
> image on the card as part of the background group. I start 
> with a card with empty fields and image (no file reference). 
> I then fill in data, reference an image file and create a new 
> card. When I create new card, all the fields and labels are 
> generated as expected, and all the fields are empty as 
> expected, but the image is not empty. Worse, if I drag a new 
> image in on this new card, all other cards reflect the same image.
> 
> If its relevant, after dragging the image in, I save a 
> thumbnail of the image then use this as the file reference. 
> There is a need for thumbnail pictures elsewhere in the system.
> 
> Any ideas why each card sees the same image and why the image 
> reference appears on new generated cards?
> 
> I have looked at the database example in the tutorials, but 
> it doesn't seem to use create card (not that I can find anyway).
> 
> Cheers
> Steve
> 
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com 
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-> revolution
> 



From klaus at major-k.de  Sun Feb 29 10:29:05 2004
From: klaus at major-k.de (Klaus Major)
Date: Sun, 29 Feb 2004 16:29:05 +0100
Subject: group scripts
In-Reply-To: <AD3A4FB6-6ACA-11D8-9E73-000A95A4EDD2@willamette.edu>
References: <20040229115149.8A6449300AB@mail.runrev.com>
	<002201c3fecb$19c76520$5602a8c0@athalon>
	<759B6E32-6ABF-11D8-8D0D-000A95DA60FA@adelphia.net>
	<AD3A4FB6-6ACA-11D8-9E73-000A95A4EDD2@willamette.edu>
Message-ID: <0248010C-6ACC-11D8-A1D6-000A27B49A96@major-k.de>

Hi John,

> I'm so old I won't live long enough to be anything but a newbie 
> (yesterday was my birthday). Oh well.
>
> Situation: a set of buttons, grouped. The group has a script. The 
> group gets ungrouped, the buttons rearranged, then regrouped.
>
> What happened to the script?

well, i'm afraid that will be in "data nirvana" now...

> I suspect that ungrouping was the wrong move;

Yo ;-)

> I should have edited the group, right?

Yo ;-)

> The reason I didn't do that was my goal was to physically rearrange
> things in relation to items not in the group, and in edit group 
> everything
> else is hidden.   Sure glad I have previous versions and there's cut 
> and paste.

You can toggle "selectgroupedcontrols" to false/true...
Menu: Edit -> Select Grouped Controls
or click the icon in the "Toolbar"...

This way you CAN select and edit objects of the group without the need
to ungroup or edit the group.

Hope that helps...

> John

Regards

Klaus Major
klaus at major-k.de
www.major-k.de


From rcozens at pon.net  Sun Feb 29 09:34:18 2004
From: rcozens at pon.net (Rob Cozens)
Date: Sun, 29 Feb 2004 07:34:18 -0700
Subject: Problem with Image on background property
In-Reply-To: <012701c3fed7$904105b0$6601a8c0@LightningFlash>
References: <012701c3fed7$904105b0$6601a8c0@LightningFlash>
Message-ID: <a05100301bc67a8477d37@[66.52.165.235]>

>So for those kinds of objects, a good approach is to store the path to
>the image (or selection in a menu button, etc.) in a custom property on
>each card, and then on preOpenCard reinstate that path/selection from
>the custom property before the card draws.

Steve, et al:

Have you looked at the alternative of creating a button and changing 
its icon to change the current image?
-- 

Rob Cozens
CCW, Serendipity Software Company
http://www.oenolog.net/who.htm

"And I, which was two fooles, do so grow three;
Who are a little wise, the best fooles bee."

from "The Triple Foole" by John Donne (1572-1631)

From st.king42 at ntlworld.com  Sun Feb 29 10:47:37 2004
From: st.king42 at ntlworld.com (Stephen King)
Date: Sun, 29 Feb 2004 15:47:37 -0000
Subject: Problem with Image on background property
Message-ID: <000b01c3fedb$5b411270$5602a8c0@athalon>

Thanks everyone for the very quick replies.

At least ths explains whats happening! The aim is straightforward placing of
the member image in the card as part of the database.

I'll try Robs idea of using a button and if not quite what I want, the
custom property approach seems pretty straightforward. I'd sort of thought
of the latter as a work around, but didn't think it would be the required
way to go.

I'm afraid it wasn't clear to me from the docs that images were shared.

Cheers
Steve


From sydney at screaming.org  Sun Feb 29 11:04:01 2004
From: sydney at screaming.org (sydney)
Date: Sun, 29 Feb 2004 10:04:01 -0600 (CST)
Subject: Rev on ICQ ?
In-Reply-To: <4EB7CD28-6A64-11D8-8744-000393B64EDC@lumin.us>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.3.96.1040229100239.11728I-100000@multiple>

On Sat, 28 Feb 2004, Christopher Mitchell wrote:

> for OSX I heartily recommend Fire http://fire.sourceforge.net/ ... very 
> well done, overall.  I use it for Jabber and AIM.  Of course some 
> functionality is lost, as mentioned, but overall I find it to be the 
> best choice for me.

Me too.  It handles group chats well with the exception that once a
group is started, it's not currently possible to re-invite someone.
Other than that, I like Fire very much and find it runs solid as a
rock.

.....................................
  Sydney Brown			
  e: sydney at screaming.org	
  s8r0wni3 (AIM)
  sydney (jabber.org)
  2645697 (ICQ)
.....................................


From gizmotron at earthlink.net  Sun Feb 29 11:26:34 2004
From: gizmotron at earthlink.net (Mark Brownell)
Date: Sun, 29 Feb 2004 08:26:34 -0800
Subject: Array, Array, who has got the array?
In-Reply-To: <404167B3.4060104@sasktel.net>
Message-ID: <0A74ABE3-6AD4-11D8-84B9-000A95859272@earthlink.net>


On Saturday, February 28, 2004, at 08:16  PM, Mark MacKenzie wrote:

> Good evening (or morning).  My current project could probably stand to 
> have at least one array in it to handle complicated groupings of data. 
>  However, I have never used one or created one before.
>
> I looked at the excellent Frogsbreath.rev project but quite frankly 
> couldn't undrestand the actual workings and how they might apply to my 
> work.

It's 7:00 AM on the west coast of the USA and I'm watching Tiger Woods 
play golf... go figure

That frogBreath.rev project was mine. I needed a device that could 
store pages of text in individual containers. I wanted to be able to 
let the user change the order of the pages, like for example moving 
page 30 to page location 38 and automatically correcting the order of 
the rest of the pages. I wanted to add new pages to the end or 
somewhere in between. I wanted to delete pages. In order to do this 
with an array I had to come up with a naming convention that used 
numbers for keys.

In an array you associate the data you wish to recall with a key to 
recall it with. When I created the array manipulation example I assumed 
the use of sequential numbers starting at 1 for the first key. So if I 
wanted to store some text I would just put my text into an array at key 
"1." Later I can get my needed text by asking for the text that is 
stored at key "1."

It looks like this:

put "What does Blowfish and frogBreath have in common?" into myArray[1]
put the text of field "pages" into myArray[2]

To get data out of the array you need to ask for it using the 
associated key. That looks like this:

put myArray[1] into zap
put myArray[2] into zapPage2

-- I use zap for a var because that is the feeling & sound of electrons 
crackling

You can use numbers of characters as keys to store data in your arrays. 
You can use keys like "theDate", "theDay", "theMonth", "theAddress1", 
thePhoneNumber", etc...

You could use functions to create keys like:
put date() into zap
put "I have an appointment today at 3:00" into myArray[zap]

Later you can call the data by asking for it by the date/key.
put myArray[02/29/04] into whatDoIHavetoDoToday

Note: in some instances you might need to use quotes with your keys:
like: put myArray["02/29/04"] into whatDoIHavetoDoToday

Hope this helps,

Mark


From chrism at lumin.us  Sun Feb 29 12:24:33 2004
From: chrism at lumin.us (Christopher Mitchell)
Date: Sun, 29 Feb 2004 11:24:33 -0600
Subject: Rev on ICQ ?
In-Reply-To: <4041ACFE.3050402@myesa.com>
References: <E08B5D47-6B47-11D8-96E7-000393AA08D2@qldlearning.com>
	<4041ACFE.3050402@myesa.com>
Message-ID: <23C9B868-6ADC-11D8-B8C4-000393B64EDC@lumin.us>

Well, in this format yes.  However, I've got logs of every character 
from every "banter" I've had on Fire for the last two months.  
organized  by date and numeric order of the chat. I like the idea of 
having it as a soft backup for info.

I kind of wanted to make Rev client for it, as it is all open XML, but 
I doubt it would turn out all that well.  Since it is my primary IM 
protocol maybe I should learn something about XML .. hrm

Yours,
Chris
On Feb 29, 2004, at 3:12 AM, Ops wrote:

> of course....what would be lost in all this...is the *valuable* 
> information trail that is created by the list itself...just the 
> (valid) banter so far about which IM technology would be "the 
> one"...is, well, "telling"...and (IMHO) proof enough that the concept, 
> while novel and not without merit...is futile to even consider with 
> today's technology(s) and the "fruits" which would become inaccessible 
> to the list at large....
>
> Opie
>
> Brian Yennie wrote:
>
>> I should add as bait to many that the Jabber protocol is relatively 
>> easy to implement.
>> A Rev chat client could easily tap into the major IM networks that 
>> way.
>>> for OSX I heartily recommend Fire http://fire.sourceforge.net/ ... 
>>> very well done, overall.  I use it for Jabber and AIM.  Of course 
>>> some functionality is lost, as mentioned, but overall I find it to 
>>> be the best choice for me.
>>>
>>> Yours,
>>> Chris
>>> On Feb 28, 2004, at 7:39 PM, Ken Ray wrote:
>>>
>>>> www.indigofield.com
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> use-revolution mailing list
>>> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>>>
>>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> use-revolution mailing list
>> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>


From chrism at lumin.us  Sun Feb 29 12:28:16 2004
From: chrism at lumin.us (Christopher Mitchell)
Date: Sun, 29 Feb 2004 11:28:16 -0600
Subject: using a custom property as a sort key ?
In-Reply-To: <4041906B.2050007@hyperactivesw.com>
References: <E8F72B50-6A64-11D8-8744-000393B64EDC@lumin.us>
	<4041656E.4050609@hyperactivesw.com>
	<73BAC1C6-6A73-11D8-8744-000393B64EDC@lumin.us>
	<4041906B.2050007@hyperactivesw.com>
Message-ID: <A90B0020-6ADC-11D8-B8C4-000393B64EDC@lumin.us>


On Feb 29, 2004, at 1:10 AM, J. Landman Gay wrote:

> On 2/28/04 10:55 PM, Christopher Mitchell wrote:
>> using a hidden background field to do the work of a custom property 
>> is a kludge.
>
> Okay. How about:
>
>  sort cards of this stack by (the index of this cd)
>
> I didn't try it but it should work. Let us know.

That won't work unless you're on the card with Index = 1
>
> Right. Note that marking cards does not reorder them in the stack. If 
> you don't care about the card order and you just want to go to a 
> specific card, then using marked cards is definitely simpler.
>
> I think there are two different things going on. Sorting the cards 
> re-orders them but doesn't necessarily move you to a specific card. 
> Marking one and then going to it takes you there but doesn't rearrange 
> the cards in the stack. I'm still not quite sure which one you want to 
> do.

No, it's really just one thing.  I want to do both.  I want to 
find/goto the card with Index = 1, then sort by the index of that cd.

I just want to re-order a stack of cards to the numeric order that is 
in their custom property, but you have to be on the right card in order 
to do that.  I'd rather not have to go to the card and just sort by the 
index, but that doesn't seem to give any useful order.


From chrism at lumin.us  Sun Feb 29 12:30:24 2004
From: chrism at lumin.us (Christopher Mitchell)
Date: Sun, 29 Feb 2004 11:30:24 -0600
Subject: using a custom property as a sort key ?
In-Reply-To: <9BB7F30C-6ABB-11D8-8D0D-000A95DA60FA@adelphia.net>
References: <00a001c3fe79$f4a02620$6601a8c0@LightningFlash>
	<DE8790EC-6A73-11D8-8744-000393B64EDC@lumin.us>
	<9BB7F30C-6ABB-11D8-8D0D-000A95DA60FA@adelphia.net>
Message-ID: <F559AD9A-6ADC-11D8-B8C4-000393B64EDC@lumin.us>

Tom,

Hrm, I'll look into this property then provided it can  be 'set' .   I 
would just sort on the card ID number except that I created 4 cards in 
the beginning to test the audio and transport controls, then added the 
other 20+ cards later, after a lot of added/deleted additional cards 
which threw off the numbers.

Yours,
Chris
On Feb 29, 2004, at 7:31 AM, Thomas McGrath III wrote:

> Chris,
>
> Don't forget the altID of each card as well...
> The altID does not change if you have them in the preferred order when 
> you set the altID.
>
> This is good to get back to the original order.
>
> Then you can use the index of card to sort other ways.
>
> TOM
>
>
> On Feb 28, 2004, at 11:58 PM, Christopher Mitchell wrote:
>
>> This looks like something just about what I was hoping for.  It is 
>> still not my perfect syntax but if it does the same thing then so  be 
>> it.  What I'm really looking for (ideally) is a command that bypasses 
>> the marking/going step and just goes there.
>>
>> go card where (the Index of this card = 1)
>>
>> or
>>
>> go card with the Index = 1
>>
>> an exact parallel of something like: go card with the short name "foo"
>>
>> In any case these beat my solution - but I was very pleased with 
>> myself for having made it work on my own even in a very crude script.
>>
>> Thanks,
>> Chris
>> On Feb 28, 2004, at 10:10 PM, Ken Ray wrote:
>>
>>> How's this:
>>>
>>>   mark cards where (the Index of this card = 1)
>>>   go next marked card
>>>   unmark all cards  -- just to be safe
>>>
>>> HTH,
>>>
>>> Ken Ray
>>> Sons of Thunder Software
>>> Email: kray at sonsothunder.com
>>> Web Site: http://www.sonsothunder.com/
>>>
>>>
>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>> From: use-revolution-bounces at lists.runrev.com
>>>> [mailto:use-revolution-bounces at lists.runrev.com] On Behalf Of
>>>> Christopher Mitchell
>>>> Sent: Saturday, February 28, 2004 9:11 PM
>>>> To: How to use Revolution
>>>> Subject: using a custom property as a sort key ?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Howdy,
>>>>
>>>> Is it possible to use a custom property as a sort key?  I
>>>> have a stack
>>>> of flashcards that have an embedded "permanent" order in the
>>>> form of a
>>>> custom property called Index.  I use a pretty crude script to flip
>>>> through all the cards (after being shuffled, aka sort on key 
>>>> random),
>>>> find the one with index 1, go to it, then sort on it.
>>>>
>>>> Is it possible to say something like:   go to card with Index of 1
>>>>
>>>> ? (obviously that is not appropriate transcript, as i'm searching 
>>>> for
>>>> the syntax)... this would be similar to saying something along the
>>>> lines of     go to card with short name "xyz"
>>>>
>>>> Surely this is implemented, and I just can't find it.
>>>>
>>>> Yours,
>>>> Chris
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> use-revolution mailing list
>>>> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
>>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-> revolution
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> use-revolution mailing list
>>> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> use-revolution mailing list
>> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>>
>>
>
> Thomas J. McGrath III
> SCS
> 1000 Killarney Dr.
> Pittsburgh, PA 15234
> 412-885-8541
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>


From rcozens at pon.net  Sun Feb 29 11:52:20 2004
From: rcozens at pon.net (Rob Cozens)
Date: Sun, 29 Feb 2004 09:52:20 -0700
Subject: Problem with Image on background property
In-Reply-To: <000b01c3fedb$5b411270$5602a8c0@athalon>
References: <000b01c3fedb$5b411270$5602a8c0@athalon>
Message-ID: <a05100300bc67c81bf790@[66.52.165.235]>

>I'm afraid it wasn't clear to me from the docs that images were shared

Steve,

In my experience, an image is shared if it's part of a group with 
background behavior set to true, but local if simply placed on a card.

This will also be true of the icon of a button in a background group; 
but it's fairly easy to 'set the icon of button "Image Holder" to 
...' on openCard or preOpenCard.
-- 

Rob Cozens
CCW, Serendipity Software Company
http://www.oenolog.net/who.htm

"And I, which was two fooles, do so grow three;
Who are a little wise, the best fooles bee."

from "The Triple Foole" by John Donne (1572-1631)

From rjb at rz.uni-potsdam.de  Sun Feb 29 12:49:12 2004
From: rjb at rz.uni-potsdam.de (Robert Brenstein)
Date: Sun, 29 Feb 2004 18:49:12 +0100
Subject: Using libs from several stacks
In-Reply-To: <006701c3fe4f$10f99750$6601a8c0@LightningFlash>
References: <006701c3fe4f$10f99750$6601a8c0@LightningFlash>
Message-ID: <a06020434bc67d5a0f121@[141.89.100.235]>

True, but issuing 'start using' second time should change the order 
of used stacks but not produce an error message. There must be 
something else going on yet. May be there is libraryStack handler 
used and it tries to load sth second time.

Robert Brenstein



>Yes, and once a stack is been put into the "stacksInUse" (or
>libraryStacks), it is available to all currently running stacks.
>
>Ken Ray
>Sons of Thunder Software
>Email: kray at sonsothunder.com
>Web Site: http://www.sonsothunder.com/
>
>>  -----Original Message-----
>>  From: use-revolution-bounces at lists.runrev.com
>>  [mailto:use-revolution-bounces at lists.runrev.com] On Behalf Of
>>  Klaus Major
>>  Sent: Saturday, February 28, 2004 4:48 PM
>>  To: nnoydb at excite.com; How to use Revolution
>>  Subject: Re: Using libs from several stacks
>>
>>
>>  Hi Kevin,
>>
>>  >
>>  > I know I have seen the answer to this one in the archives
>>  but I cannot
>>  > seem to locate it now that I need it.  I have several
>>  stacks "using"
>>  > the same LIB when I open them I get a prompt that the lib stack is
>>  > already loaded what adjustments must i make to prevent this?
>>
>>  you only need to "start using xyz" once!
>>
>>  That stack is then added to the end of the message passing hierarchie.
>>
>>  Which means: once you "start(ed) using xyz", xyz IS in use,
>>  and therefore the prompt :-)
>>
>>  You can query if a stack is in use or not  with "the
>>  stacksInUse"-function.
>>
>>  Hope that helps...
>>
>>  > Kevin
>>
>>  Klaus Major
>>  klaus at major-k.de
>>  www.major-k.de
>>
>>  _______________________________________________
>>  use-revolution mailing list
>>  use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
>>  http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-> revolution
>>
>
>
>_______________________________________________
>use-revolution mailing list
>use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
>http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution


From revolution at jaedworks.com  Sun Feb 29 13:55:06 2004
From: revolution at jaedworks.com (Jeanne A. E. DeVoto)
Date: Sun, 29 Feb 2004 10:55:06 -0800
Subject: using a custom property as a sort key ?
In-Reply-To: <A90B0020-6ADC-11D8-B8C4-000393B64EDC@lumin.us>
References: <E8F72B50-6A64-11D8-8744-000393B64EDC@lumin.us>
 <4041656E.4050609@hyperactivesw.com>
 <73BAC1C6-6A73-11D8-8744-000393B64EDC@lumin.us>
 <4041906B.2050007@hyperactivesw.com>
 <A90B0020-6ADC-11D8-B8C4-000393B64EDC@lumin.us>
Message-ID: <p06010273bc67e5d22fec@[10.0.1.8]>

At 11:28 AM -0600 2/29/2004, Christopher Mitchell wrote:
>>  sort cards of this stack by (the index of this cd)
>>
>>I didn't try it but it should work. Let us know.
>
>That won't work unless you're on the card with Index = 1

Jacque's example certainly ought to work. If you have a stack that 
shows this bug, it might be a good idea to file it in Bugzilla.
-- 
jeanne a. e. devoto ~ jaed at jaedworks.com
http://www.jaedworks.com

From hershbp at realtorsgroup.us  Sun Feb 29 14:12:19 2004
From: hershbp at realtorsgroup.us (hershrev)
Date: Sun, 29 Feb 2004 14:12:19 -0500
Subject: The "Answer with dialog"
In-Reply-To: <p060102e2bc6553e6fcad@[10.0.1.8]>
Message-ID: <32075C63-6AEB-11D8-9E0D-0030654C1E62@realtorsgroup.us>

Thanks, hershrev
On Friday, February 27, 2004, at 03:10 PM, Jeanne A. E. DeVoto wrote:

> At 1:25 PM -0500 2/27/2004, hershrev wrote:
>> On Friday, February 27, 2004, at 12:21 AM, Chipp Walters wrote:
>>
>>> global gRevAppIcon
>>> on mouseUp
>>>    --only need to do this once, in an openStack handler
>>>    put empty into gRevAppIcon
>>>    answer "it works now!" with "ok"
>>> end mouseUp
>> What is the difference ?
>
> The only difference is that Chipp's example has the global command 
> outside any handlers, and mine has the global command inside the 
> handler. So in Chipp's example, you could also put things into the 
> global variable "gRevAppIcon" in other handlers in that script, 
> without having to declare the global variable again in each handler.
>
> But if you are only using that global variable in one handler, it 
> doesn't make any difference. Either one will work.
>
> If you don't want to use any icon, you can just put empty into the 
> global variable "gRevAppIcon" (as shown above) and you don't need to 
> put an image ID into it. My post showed how to do both, just as an 
> example.
> -- 
> jeanne a. e. devoto ~ jaed at jaedworks.com
> http://www.jaedworks.com
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>


From hershbp at realtorsgroup.us  Sun Feb 29 14:53:17 2004
From: hershbp at realtorsgroup.us (hershrev)
Date: Sun, 29 Feb 2004 14:53:17 -0500
Subject: empty multiple fields
In-Reply-To: <039701c3fcce$0ca24710$6601a8c0@LightningFlash>
Message-ID: <EB193D8A-6AF0-11D8-9E0D-0030654C1E62@realtorsgroup.us>

If needed to exclude a certain field e.g. named "xlable" how is it done 
?
Thanks in advanced, hershrev
On Thursday, February 26, 2004, at 08:07 PM, Ken Ray wrote:

> sure:
>
> repeat with x = 1 to the number of flds
>   put empty into fld x
> end repeat
>
> or, if they're all named similarly, like "DataHolder_1" through
> "DataHolder_5", you can do:
>
> repeat with x = 1 to the number of flds
>   put empyt into fld ("DataHolder_" & x)
> end repeat
>
> HTH,
>
> Ken Ray
> Sons of Thunder Software
> Email: kray at sonsothunder.com
> Web Site: http://www.sonsothunder.com/
>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: use-revolution-bounces at lists.runrev.com
>> [mailto:use-revolution-bounces at lists.runrev.com] On Behalf Of hershrev
>> Sent: Thursday, February 26, 2004 6:53 PM
>> To: use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
>> Subject: empty multiple fields
>>
>>
>> Hi everybody,
>> is there a faster way to clear (empty) multiple fields then
>> put empty in field"1"
>> put empty in field"2"
>> and so on ? to put all field names in Var and repeat for each line or
>> so?
>> Thanks, hershrev.
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> use-revolution mailing list
>> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-> revolution
>>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>


From ambassador at fourthworld.com  Sun Feb 29 15:01:06 2004
From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin)
Date: Sun, 29 Feb 2004 12:01:06 -0800
Subject: Rev on ICQ ?
In-Reply-To: <4041ACFE.3050402@myesa.com>
References: <E08B5D47-6B47-11D8-96E7-000393AA08D2@qldlearning.com>
	<4041ACFE.3050402@myesa.com>
Message-ID: <40424502.5050908@fourthworld.com>

Ops wrote:

> of course....what would be lost in all this...is the *valuable* 
> information trail that is created by the list itself...

Agreed.  From time to time folks bring up the idea of also having a 
newsgroup or a Web-based discussion forum, etc., but I value having one 
great searchable repository as we have here.

IM and other technologies are useful, but it's a relatively small subset 
of communications that truly require real-time.

-- 
  Richard Gaskin
  Fourth World Media Corporation
  ___________________________________________________________
  Ambassador at FourthWorld.com       http://www.FourthWorld.com

From ambassador at fourthworld.com  Sun Feb 29 15:05:02 2004
From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin)
Date: Sun, 29 Feb 2004 12:05:02 -0800
Subject: Rev on ICQ ?
In-Reply-To: <E08B5D47-6B47-11D8-96E7-000393AA08D2@qldlearning.com>
References: <E08B5D47-6B47-11D8-96E7-000393AA08D2@qldlearning.com>
Message-ID: <404245EE.20807@fourthworld.com>

Brian Yennie wrote:

> I should add as bait to many that the Jabber protocol is relatively easy 
> to implement.
> A Rev chat client could easily tap into the major IM networks that way.

Shao Sean, did you hear that?  :)

-- 
  Richard Gaskin
  Fourth World Media Corporation
  ___________________________________________________________
  Ambassador at FourthWorld.com       http://www.FourthWorld.com

From jacque at hyperactivesw.com  Sun Feb 29 15:07:16 2004
From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay)
Date: Sun, 29 Feb 2004 14:07:16 -0600
Subject: using a custom property as a sort key ?
In-Reply-To: <A90B0020-6ADC-11D8-B8C4-000393B64EDC@lumin.us>
References: <E8F72B50-6A64-11D8-8744-000393B64EDC@lumin.us>
	<4041656E.4050609@hyperactivesw.com>
	<73BAC1C6-6A73-11D8-8744-000393B64EDC@lumin.us>
	<4041906B.2050007@hyperactivesw.com>
	<A90B0020-6ADC-11D8-B8C4-000393B64EDC@lumin.us>
Message-ID: <40424674.3000500@hyperactivesw.com>

On 2/29/04 11:28 AM, Christopher Mitchell wrote:

> On Feb 29, 2004, at 1:10 AM, J. Landman Gay wrote:
>> 
>> Okay. How about:
>> 
>> sort cards of this stack by (the index of this cd)
> 
> That won't work unless you're on the card with Index = 1

No, it'll work. I have Jeanne's word on it, not to mention I just tried 
it. :) When you are sorting cards, "this card" refers to whatever card 
is currently being considered for the sort order.

> No, it's really just one thing.  I want to do both.  I want to
> find/goto the card with Index = 1, then sort by the index of that cd.

In Revolution, that's two things. Sorting and going are different.

> I just want to re-order a stack of cards to the numeric order that is
> in their custom property, but you have to be on the right card in
> order to do that.

No; you can be on any card. Try it. Sorting the cards is Thing One.

>  I'd rather not have to go to the card and just
> sort by the index, but that doesn't seem to give any useful order.

Going to a particular card is Thing Two. Sorting does not depend on what 
  card you are on; the sort takes place independently of your current 
location. The sort process considers the value of the sort key for each 
card in the stack, and reorders them according to that value. You can 
sort by your custom property no matter where you are currently located 
in the stack.

Consider, for example, sorting by the value of a field:

  sort cards of this stack by field "lastname"

The sort process considers the value of the field for each card, and 
orders them appropriately. Another example, from the docs:

  sort cards by the number of buttons

"Of this stack" is assumed. Rev considers the number of card buttons on 
each card in the stack and uses that number to rearrange the cards.

  sort cards by the myValue of this card -- this is the one you want

"This card" refers to whatever card Rev is currently working with during 
the sort process. Rev considers the value of the custom property 
"myValue" for each card, and sorts the cards according to those values. 
This will restore your original sort order.

None of these sorts has anything to do with your current location in the 
stack, nor does any sort take you to a particular location when it is 
done. Navigation and sorting are two independent processes. When you are 
done sorting, you'll probably want to make use of Ken's card marking to 
find the card you want to go to.

-- 
Jacqueline Landman Gay         |     jacque at hyperactivesw.com
HyperActive Software           |     http://www.hyperactivesw.com

From ambassador at fourthworld.com  Sun Feb 29 15:08:46 2004
From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin)
Date: Sun, 29 Feb 2004 12:08:46 -0800
Subject: using a custom property as a sort key ?
In-Reply-To: <A90B0020-6ADC-11D8-B8C4-000393B64EDC@lumin.us>
References: <E8F72B50-6A64-11D8-8744-000393B64EDC@lumin.us>
	<4041656E.4050609@hyperactivesw.com>
	<73BAC1C6-6A73-11D8-8744-000393B64EDC@lumin.us>
	<4041906B.2050007@hyperactivesw.com>
	<A90B0020-6ADC-11D8-B8C4-000393B64EDC@lumin.us>
Message-ID: <404246CE.2080105@fourthworld.com>

Christopher Mitchell wrote:

> I just want to re-order a stack of cards to the numeric order that is in 
> their custom property, but you have to be on the right card in order to 
> do that.  I'd rather not have to go to the card and just sort by the 
> index, but that doesn't seem to give any useful order.

This may be one of those cases where a hidden field is optimal, allowing 
you to use something like:

   sort cards by field "MyCardNum"

But if you have to use custom props, walking through the cards is really 
fast since everything in Rev is RAM-based.  And you don't need to go to 
a card to access its properties:

   get the uCardNum of cd 12

-- 
  Richard Gaskin
  Fourth World Media Corporation
  ___________________________________________________________
  Ambassador at FourthWorld.com       http://www.FourthWorld.com

From ambassador at fourthworld.com  Sun Feb 29 15:15:30 2004
From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin)
Date: Sun, 29 Feb 2004 12:15:30 -0800
Subject: Using libs from several stacks
In-Reply-To: <a06020434bc67d5a0f121@[141.89.100.235]>
References: <006701c3fe4f$10f99750$6601a8c0@LightningFlash>
	<a06020434bc67d5a0f121@[141.89.100.235]>
Message-ID: <40424862.8030106@fourthworld.com>

Robert Brenstein wrote:

> True, but issuing 'start using' second time should change the order of 
> used stacks but not produce an error message. There must be something 
> else going on yet. May be there is libraryStack handler used and it 
> tries to load sth second time.

The libraryStack message can be problematic, since to use it robustly 
requires the same structure for any usage which is stack-specific:

on libraryStack
   if the short name of the target is the short name of me then
      -- do initialization stuff
   end if
   pass libraryStack
end libraryStack

Without that any stack brought into use will trigger the libraryStack 
message for all other stacks in use (unless one of them isn't passing 
the message, but not passing system messages for stacks distributed for 
others to use is so untidy that I prefer to pretend it doesn't happen 
<g> -- if anyone finds any of my libraries, frontscripts, or backscripts 
not passing messages it's a bug and should be reported immediately).

-- 
  Richard Gaskin
  Fourth World Media Corporation
  ___________________________________________________________
  Ambassador at FourthWorld.com       http://www.FourthWorld.com

From chrism at lumin.us  Sun Feb 29 15:20:20 2004
From: chrism at lumin.us (Christopher Mitchell)
Date: Sun, 29 Feb 2004 14:20:20 -0600
Subject: using a custom property as a sort key ?
In-Reply-To: <p06010273bc67e5d22fec@[10.0.1.8]>
References: <E8F72B50-6A64-11D8-8744-000393B64EDC@lumin.us>
	<4041656E.4050609@hyperactivesw.com>
	<73BAC1C6-6A73-11D8-8744-000393B64EDC@lumin.us>
	<4041906B.2050007@hyperactivesw.com>
	<A90B0020-6ADC-11D8-B8C4-000393B64EDC@lumin.us>
	<p06010273bc67e5d22fec@[10.0.1.8]>
Message-ID: <B289E27C-6AF4-11D8-B8C4-000393B64EDC@lumin.us>

Indeed,  I'll look at this later and make sure I just didn't have 
something typed wrong  before, and if not then I'll put up the rev file 
to get a double check that I'm just not doing something wrong before 
doing bugzilla.

The standalone is already up but it would not demonstrate much since it 
is hardcoded now to go to that card with Index = 1.  And the rev file 
might not be very useful to show that it is being sorted weirdly unless 
the viewer knows the hebrew alphabet, but I will try to get that sorted 
soon.   Thanks for your input here!

Yours,
Chris
On Feb 29, 2004, at 12:55 PM, Jeanne A. E. DeVoto wrote:

> At 11:28 AM -0600 2/29/2004, Christopher Mitchell wrote:
>>>  sort cards of this stack by (the index of this cd)
>>>
>>> I didn't try it but it should work. Let us know.
>>
>> That won't work unless you're on the card with Index = 1
>
> Jacque's example certainly ought to work. If you have a stack that 
> shows this bug, it might be a good idea to file it in Bugzilla.
> -- 
> jeanne a. e. devoto ~ jaed at jaedworks.com
> http://www.jaedworks.com
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>


From graham.samuel at blueyonder.co.uk  Thu Feb 26 18:52:45 2004
From: graham.samuel at blueyonder.co.uk (Graham Samuel)
Date: Thu, 26 Feb 2004 23:52:45 +0000
Subject: [ANN] Tutti 3D
Message-ID: <6.0.3.0.2.20040226235105.01ca3b20@pop3.blueyonder.co.uk>

To join in the chorus: stunning! I didn't realise RR could be used for 
stuff like this. Beautifully done, and an inspiration.

Graham


---------------------------------------------------
Graham Samuel / The Living Fossil Co. / UK & France  



From graham.samuel at blueyonder.co.uk  Sat Feb 28 12:18:33 2004
From: graham.samuel at blueyonder.co.uk (Graham Samuel)
Date: Sat, 28 Feb 2004 17:18:33 +0000
Subject: Losing a Group's memory
Message-ID: <6.0.3.0.2.20040228170845.01cec940@pop3.blueyonder.co.uk>

I have a group consisting of a couple  of images which I distort from 
within a handler in order to give a simple animation effect of a shutter 
shutting. This works fine, but when I edit the group and change the size of 
one or more of the individual images (for example if I change the height of 
one of them) and stop editing and go back to my 'distorting' behaviour, the 
image(s) reverts to its/their original size. Likewise, if I alter the 
height of the whole group, it also reverts to the original height during 
the shutter animation process, although there is nothing in the code of the 
handler to make it do this.

This must mean that the group retains a memory of the size of its 
components. I don't want this - if I want the height changed, I want it to 
stay that way - so I need my group to 'forget' this original-size 
information. Does anyone know if there is any way of doing this? If not, I 
will have to re-craft my images in some kind of image editor and replace 
the ones I have in the group now, which to say the least is a tedious process.

TIA

Graham

---------------------------------------------------
Graham Samuel / The Living Fossil Co. / UK & France  



From irog at mac.com  Fri Feb 27 12:36:33 2004
From: irog at mac.com (irog at mac.com)
Date: Fri, 27 Feb 2004 09:36:33 -0800
Subject: [ANN] Tutti 3D
In-Reply-To: <20040226141459.A2CE1930075@mail.runrev.com>
References: <20040226141459.A2CE1930075@mail.runrev.com>
Message-ID: <7BF52868-694B-11D8-9816-000393A1CAAA@mac.com>

Scott,

I am so grateful to you and others who allow us to download your 
amazing Rev examples.  I learn so much from these . . . not just tricks 
and techniques but also how powerful and versatile this tool is.

Tutti 3D is awesome and pushes back the frontiers of ignorance to an 
amazing degree!

Cheers, Roger

> Message: 4
> Date: Thu, 26 Feb 2004 02:54:35 -0800
> From: Scott Rossi <scott at tactilemedia.com>
> Subject: [ANN] Tutti 3D
> To: How to use Revolution <use-revolution at lists.runrev.com>
> Message-ID: <BC63106B.A642%scott at tactilemedia.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
>
> Posted is a stack that demonstrates an interesting aspect of polygon
> graphics, and a way these graphics can be used to create 3D shapes and
> animations.  Be sure to read the explanation included in the stack.
>
> Tutti 3D is available on RevNet and via our Media Panel.  Enter the
> following in your message box:
>
>  go url "http://www.tactilemedia.com/tmpanel.rev"
>
> (OK, the stack name is clearly a misnomer.  The stack does not cover
> everything [tutti] 3D.  Instead, use a lazy American accent to 
> pronounce
> 'tutti' and you wind up with 'too-dee', as in 2D.  2D - 3D. Get it?...)
>
> Regards,
>
> Scott Rossi
> Creative Director
> Tactile Media, Development & Design
> -----
> E: scott at tactilemedia.com
> W: http://www.tactilemedia.com
>


From scott at tactilemedia.com  Sun Feb 29 15:25:13 2004
From: scott at tactilemedia.com (Scott Rossi)
Date: Sun, 29 Feb 2004 12:25:13 -0800
Subject: empty multiple fields
In-Reply-To: <EB193D8A-6AF0-11D8-9E0D-0030654C1E62@realtorsgroup.us>
Message-ID: <BC678AA9.A82F%scott@tactilemedia.com>

On 2/29/04 11:53 AM, "hershrev" <hershbp at realtorsgroup.us> wrote:

>> repeat with x = 1 to the number of flds
>>   put empty into fld x
>> end repeat
>> 
>> or, if they're all named similarly, like "DataHolder_1" through
>> "DataHolder_5", you can do:
>> 
>> repeat with x = 1 to the number of flds
>>   put empyt into fld ("DataHolder_" & x)
>> end repeat

> If needed to exclude a certain field e.g. named "xlable" how is it done?

Add either of the following above the "put empty..." line:

 if (x & "label") = "xlable" then next repeat

Or

 if short name of fld x = "xlable" then next repeat

Regards,

Scott Rossi
Creative Director
Tactile Media, Development & Design
-----
E: scott at tactilemedia.com
W: http://www.tactilemedia.com


From janselid at hotmail.com  Sat Feb 28 23:14:55 2004
From: janselid at hotmail.com (=?iso-8859-1?Q?Jan_S=E6lid?=)
Date: Sun, 29 Feb 2004 05:14:55 +0100
Subject: How to detect individual collision
Message-ID: <BAY1-DAV52xe0ymQ1WE00012040@hotmail.com>

Hi there

I'm trying to make a timeline-bar where you can add or delete rectangles conatinig "whatever". The user is able to move a rectangle left or right, but if it intersects with another rectangle, it will stop....

Because the user is able to delete and add new rectangles I have to make some sort of function check if the moving rectangle is going to collide with other rectangles to the left and right. (like the timeline in Adobe Premiere) I know this is possible, but how do I do it fast..... Checking every rectangle with repeat is to slow.....and the only idea I have now is to make a list in a hidden field-table for every new created rectangle......

any ideas....?

From MatadorMac at netscape.net  Sun Feb 29 08:23:31 2004
From: MatadorMac at netscape.net (Mark MacKenzie)
Date: Sun, 29 Feb 2004 07:23:31 -0600
Subject: More scrolling images
In-Reply-To: <BC66B7A6.5377%pixelbird@interisland.net>
References: <BC66B7A6.5377%pixelbird@interisland.net>
Message-ID: <4041E7D3.4050304@netscape.net>

Forgive me for jumping in at this point but if your are looking for a 
way to scroll a very large image within a graphic with full user 
interaction take a look at an old multimedia project of mine on the 
download page.  "Thumbscroller"  How old?  Well it is way down the 
page.  If it needs updating for the current Rev let me know.

Mark MacKenzie

Ken Norris wrote:

>Howdy,
>
>OK, I now know how to scroll an image in a stack window, _but_
>
>Is it possible to scroll a large image inside a graphic?
>
>Ken N.
>
>
>_______________________________________________
>use-revolution mailing list
>use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
>http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>
>  
>

-- 
-----
Mark "Matador Mac" MacKenzie
Duelist for Hire
Have Guns, Will Travel
SASS #49304
Alberta Frontier Shootist #177
Saskatchewan Wildlife Federation, Handgun Club #69
electric telegraph:  matadormac at netscape.net




From ambassador at fourthworld.com  Sun Feb 29 15:27:24 2004
From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin)
Date: Sun, 29 Feb 2004 12:27:24 -0800
Subject: [ANN] Tutti 3D
In-Reply-To: <6.0.3.0.2.20040226235105.01ca3b20@pop3.blueyonder.co.uk>
References: <6.0.3.0.2.20040226235105.01ca3b20@pop3.blueyonder.co.uk>
Message-ID: <40424B2C.8060802@fourthworld.com>

Graham Samuel wrote:

> To join in the chorus: stunning! I didn't realise RR could be used for 
> stuff like this. Beautifully done, and an inspiration.

Amen to that. Rossi is a god.  Not only does he consistently raise 
expectations for what Rev can do, but his interfaces are some of the 
most attractive things downloadable on the Web.

-- 
  Richard Gaskin
  Fourth World Media Corporation
  ___________________________________________________________
  Ambassador at FourthWorld.com       http://www.FourthWorld.com

From revolution at jaedworks.com  Sun Feb 29 15:47:14 2004
From: revolution at jaedworks.com (Jeanne A. E. DeVoto)
Date: Sun, 29 Feb 2004 12:47:14 -0800
Subject: empty multiple fields
In-Reply-To: <EB193D8A-6AF0-11D8-9E0D-0030654C1E62@realtorsgroup.us>
References: <EB193D8A-6AF0-11D8-9E0D-0030654C1E62@realtorsgroup.us>
Message-ID: <p0601027cbc67ffe74d1e@[10.0.1.8]>

At 2:53 PM -0500 2/29/2004, hershrev wrote:
>On Thursday, February 26, 2004, at 08:07 PM, Ken Ray wrote:
>>repeat with x = 1 to the number of flds
>>   put empty into fld x
>>end repeat

>If needed to exclude a certain field e.g. named "xlable" how is it done ?

In this case, you check the field's name inside the repeat loop, in 
order to make sure it isn't the field you want to skip:

   repeat with x = 1 to the number of fields
     if the short name of field x is not "xlable"
     then put empty into field x -- only if not "xlable"
   end repeat
-- 
jeanne a. e. devoto ~ jaed at jaedworks.com
http://www.jaedworks.com

From 3mcgrath at adelphia.net  Sun Feb 29 15:54:22 2004
From: 3mcgrath at adelphia.net (Thomas McGrath III)
Date: Sun, 29 Feb 2004 15:54:22 -0500
Subject: using a custom property as a sort key ?
In-Reply-To: <F559AD9A-6ADC-11D8-B8C4-000393B64EDC@lumin.us>
References: <00a001c3fe79$f4a02620$6601a8c0@LightningFlash>
	<DE8790EC-6A73-11D8-8744-000393B64EDC@lumin.us>
	<9BB7F30C-6ABB-11D8-8D0D-000A95DA60FA@adelphia.net>
	<F559AD9A-6ADC-11D8-B8C4-000393B64EDC@lumin.us>
Message-ID: <739BD31A-6AF9-11D8-8D0D-000A95DA60FA@adelphia.net>

Yes the altID can be set.

First put the cards in the order you want via marking them or by a 
complex sort then do:

put 0 into myvar

repeat with v = 1 to the number of cards
	set the altID of card v to (myVar +1)
end repeat


HTH

Tom

On Feb 29, 2004, at 12:30 PM, Christopher Mitchell wrote:

> Tom,
>
> Hrm, I'll look into this property then provided it can  be 'set' .   I 
> would just sort on the card ID number except that I created 4 cards in 
> the beginning to test the audio and transport controls, then added the 
> other 20+ cards later, after a lot of added/deleted additional cards 
> which threw off the numbers.
>
> Yours,
> Chris
> On Feb 29, 2004, at 7:31 AM, Thomas McGrath III wrote:
>
>> Chris,
>>
>> Don't forget the altID of each card as well...
>> The altID does not change if you have them in the preferred order 
>> when you set the altID.
>>
>> This is good to get back to the original order.
>>
>> Then you can use the index of card to sort other ways.
>>
>> TOM
>>
>>
>> On Feb 28, 2004, at 11:58 PM, Christopher Mitchell wrote:
>>
>>> This looks like something just about what I was hoping for.  It is 
>>> still not my perfect syntax but if it does the same thing then so  
>>> be it.  What I'm really looking for (ideally) is a command that 
>>> bypasses the marking/going step and just goes there.
>>>
>>> go card where (the Index of this card = 1)
>>>
>>> or
>>>
>>> go card with the Index = 1
>>>
>>> an exact parallel of something like: go card with the short name 
>>> "foo"
>>>
>>> In any case these beat my solution - but I was very pleased with 
>>> myself for having made it work on my own even in a very crude 
>>> script.
>>>
>>> Thanks,
>>> Chris
>>> On Feb 28, 2004, at 10:10 PM, Ken Ray wrote:
>>>
>>>> How's this:
>>>>
>>>>   mark cards where (the Index of this card = 1)
>>>>   go next marked card
>>>>   unmark all cards  -- just to be safe
>>>>
>>>> HTH,
>>>>
>>>> Ken Ray
>>>> Sons of Thunder Software
>>>> Email: kray at sonsothunder.com
>>>> Web Site: http://www.sonsothunder.com/
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>> From: use-revolution-bounces at lists.runrev.com
>>>>> [mailto:use-revolution-bounces at lists.runrev.com] On Behalf Of
>>>>> Christopher Mitchell
>>>>> Sent: Saturday, February 28, 2004 9:11 PM
>>>>> To: How to use Revolution
>>>>> Subject: using a custom property as a sort key ?
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Howdy,
>>>>>
>>>>> Is it possible to use a custom property as a sort key?  I
>>>>> have a stack
>>>>> of flashcards that have an embedded "permanent" order in the
>>>>> form of a
>>>>> custom property called Index.  I use a pretty crude script to flip
>>>>> through all the cards (after being shuffled, aka sort on key 
>>>>> random),
>>>>> find the one with index 1, go to it, then sort on it.
>>>>>
>>>>> Is it possible to say something like:   go to card with Index of 1
>>>>>
>>>>> ? (obviously that is not appropriate transcript, as i'm searching 
>>>>> for
>>>>> the syntax)... this would be similar to saying something along the
>>>>> lines of     go to card with short name "xyz"
>>>>>
>>>>> Surely this is implemented, and I just can't find it.
>>>>>
>>>>> Yours,
>>>>> Chris
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> use-revolution mailing list
>>>>> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
>>>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-> revolution
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> use-revolution mailing list
>>>> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
>>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> use-revolution mailing list
>>> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>>>
>>>
>>
>> Thomas J. McGrath III
>> SCS
>> 1000 Killarney Dr.
>> Pittsburgh, PA 15234
>> 412-885-8541
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> use-revolution mailing list
>> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>>
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>
>

Thomas J. McGrath III
SCS
1000 Killarney Dr.
Pittsburgh, PA 15234
412-885-8541


From 3mcgrath at adelphia.net  Sun Feb 29 16:10:19 2004
From: 3mcgrath at adelphia.net (Thomas McGrath III)
Date: Sun, 29 Feb 2004 16:10:19 -0500
Subject: How to detect individual collision
In-Reply-To: <BAY1-DAV52xe0ymQ1WE00012040@hotmail.com>
References: <BAY1-DAV52xe0ymQ1WE00012040@hotmail.com>
Message-ID: <ADC67790-6AFB-11D8-8D0D-000A95DA60FA@adelphia.net>

In the card script

On mouseEnter
-- check the name and  or type of the object to make sure it is a 
rectangle
-- if valid then do something here
end mouseEnter


On Feb 28, 2004, at 11:14 PM, Jan S?lid wrote:

> Hi there
>
> I'm trying to make a timeline-bar where you can add or delete 
> rectangles conatinig "whatever". The user is able to move a rectangle 
> left or right, but if it intersects with another rectangle, it will 
> stop....
>
> Because the user is able to delete and add new rectangles I have to 
> make some sort of function check if the moving rectangle is going to 
> collide with other rectangles to the left and right. (like the 
> timeline in Adobe Premiere) I know this is possible, but how do I do 
> it fast..... Checking every rectangle with repeat is to slow.....and 
> the only idea I have now is to make a list in a hidden field-table for 
> every new created rectangle......
>
> any ideas....?
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>
>

Thomas J. McGrath III
SCS
1000 Killarney Dr.
Pittsburgh, PA 15234
412-885-8541


From klaus at major-k.de  Sun Feb 29 16:39:07 2004
From: klaus at major-k.de (Klaus Major)
Date: Sun, 29 Feb 2004 22:39:07 +0100
Subject: [ANN] Tutti 3D
In-Reply-To: <40424B2C.8060802@fourthworld.com>
References: <6.0.3.0.2.20040226235105.01ca3b20@pop3.blueyonder.co.uk>
	<40424B2C.8060802@fourthworld.com>
Message-ID: <B40CF760-6AFF-11D8-A1D6-000A27B49A96@major-k.de>

Hi Richard,

> Graham Samuel wrote:
>
>> To join in the chorus: stunning! I didn't realise RR could be used 
>> for stuff like this. Beautifully done, and an inspiration.
>
> Amen to that. Rossi is a god.  Not only does he consistently raise 
> expectations for what Rev can do, but his interfaces are some of the 
> most attractive things downloadable on the Web.

10000 % ACK.

I remember my first encounter with his work years ago when he
released "Interphazed" on the mac...

WOW, you ain't seen nothing yet, it really knocked me off of my feet!

Scott, we are UNWORTHY!!! :-D

>  Richard Gaskin
>  Fourth World Media Corporation

Regards

Klaus Major
klaus at major-k.de
www.major-k.de


From hershbp at realtorsgroup.us  Sun Feb 29 16:59:30 2004
From: hershbp at realtorsgroup.us (hershrev)
Date: Sun, 29 Feb 2004 16:59:30 -0500
Subject: empty multiple fields
In-Reply-To: <p0601027cbc67ffe74d1e@[10.0.1.8]>
Message-ID: <8CD26B08-6B02-11D8-9E0D-0030654C1E62@realtorsgroup.us>

Got it .
Thanks
On Sunday, February 29, 2004, at 03:47 PM, Jeanne A. E. DeVoto wrote:

> At 2:53 PM -0500 2/29/2004, hershrev wrote:
>> On Thursday, February 26, 2004, at 08:07 PM, Ken Ray wrote:
>>> repeat with x = 1 to the number of flds
>>>   put empty into fld x
>>> end repeat
>
>> If needed to exclude a certain field e.g. named "xlable" how is it 
>> done ?
>
> In this case, you check the field's name inside the repeat loop, in 
> order to make sure it isn't the field you want to skip:
>
>   repeat with x = 1 to the number of fields
>     if the short name of field x is not "xlable"
>     then put empty into field x -- only if not "xlable"
>   end repeat
> -- 
> jeanne a. e. devoto ~ jaed at jaedworks.com
> http://www.jaedworks.com
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>


From hershbp at realtorsgroup.us  Sun Feb 29 17:11:54 2004
From: hershbp at realtorsgroup.us (hershrev)
Date: Sun, 29 Feb 2004 17:11:54 -0500
Subject: The "Answer with dialog"
In-Reply-To: <32075C63-6AEB-11D8-9E0D-0030654C1E62@realtorsgroup.us>
Message-ID: <4884CA9C-6B04-11D8-9E0D-0030654C1E62@realtorsgroup.us>

Ok got that , now to trap the yes or whatever , I tried
if it is "a" , didn't work out.
also tried put it into it and then if it is "a" also not
thanks hershrev.
On Sunday, February 29, 2004, at 02:12 PM, hershrev wrote:

> Thanks, hershrev
> On Friday, February 27, 2004, at 03:10 PM, Jeanne A. E. DeVoto wrote:
>
>> At 1:25 PM -0500 2/27/2004, hershrev wrote:
>>> On Friday, February 27, 2004, at 12:21 AM, Chipp Walters wrote:
>>>
>>>> global gRevAppIcon
>>>> on mouseUp
>>>>    --only need to do this once, in an openStack handler
>>>>    put empty into gRevAppIcon
>>>>    answer "it works now!" with "ok"
>>>> end mouseUp
>>> What is the difference ?
>>
>> The only difference is that Chipp's example has the global command 
>> outside any handlers, and mine has the global command inside the 
>> handler. So in Chipp's example, you could also put things into the 
>> global variable "gRevAppIcon" in other handlers in that script, 
>> without having to declare the global variable again in each handler.
>>
>> But if you are only using that global variable in one handler, it 
>> doesn't make any difference. Either one will work.
>>
>> If you don't want to use any icon, you can just put empty into the 
>> global variable "gRevAppIcon" (as shown above) and you don't need to 
>> put an image ID into it. My post showed how to do both, just as an 
>> example.
>> -- 
>> jeanne a. e. devoto ~ jaed at jaedworks.com
>> http://www.jaedworks.com
>> _______________________________________________
>> use-revolution mailing list
>> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>>
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>


From janschenkel at yahoo.com  Sun Feb 29 17:34:24 2004
From: janschenkel at yahoo.com (Jan Schenkel)
Date: Sun, 29 Feb 2004 14:34:24 -0800 (PST)
Subject: The "Answer with dialog"
In-Reply-To: <4884CA9C-6B04-11D8-9E0D-0030654C1E62@realtorsgroup.us>
Message-ID: <20040229223424.44933.qmail@web60502.mail.yahoo.com>

--- hershrev <hershbp at realtorsgroup.us> wrote:
> Ok got that , now to trap the yes or whatever , I
> tried
> if it is "a" , didn't work out.
> also tried put it into it and then if it is "a" also
> not
> thanks hershrev.
> 

Hi Hershrev

After the user clicks a button, the name of that
button is placed into the variable it. Example:
--
on mouseUp
  answer "What shall I do?" with \
       "Ask the list" or "Read the manual"
  if it is "Ask the list"
  then answer warning "Please read the manual first"
end mouseUp
--

Hope this helped,

Jan Schenkel.

=====
"As we grow older, we grow both wiser and more foolish at the same time."  (La Rochefoucauld)

__________________________________
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From scott at tactilemedia.com  Sun Feb 29 17:48:43 2004
From: scott at tactilemedia.com (Scott Rossi)
Date: Sun, 29 Feb 2004 14:48:43 -0800
Subject: [ANN] Tutti 3D
In-Reply-To: <B40CF760-6AFF-11D8-A1D6-000A27B49A96@major-k.de>
Message-ID: <BC67AC4B.A847%scott@tactilemedia.com>

Solche schmeichelnde W?rter.  Ich werde in Verlegenheit gebracht.

"Such flattering words.  I am embarrassed."
(Using BabelFish for translation, so the above is probably wrong.)

Interfazed was such a long time ago...  But dimensional (tactile) interfaces
remain a passion.  A small serving of Rev/MC eyecandy, some of which has yet
to see the light of day:  http://www.tactilemedia.com/plexata/

And a tiny teaser -- more bubbles are coming...

Thanks for the nice words guys.

Scott Rossi
Creative Director
Tactile Media, Development & Design
-----
E: scott at tactilemedia.com
W: http://www.tactilemedia.com


From nnoydb at excite.com  Sun Feb 29 18:23:12 2004
From: nnoydb at excite.com (Kevin)
Date: Sun, 29 Feb 2004 18:23:12 -0500 (EST)
Subject: Library Stacks PART II
Message-ID: <20040229232312.67FEB197360@xprdmailfe3.nwk.excite.com>


Okay, I guess I am little frustrated here.  

1.  There is no construct  simular to Visual Basic where a project file controls the included stacks aka handlers (thus those stacks in project are in the message path). 

NOTE: This also prevents loading a stack that is already loaded.

2.  A start using from multiple stacks (main or sub) for the same library will cause a unnerving message from RR.  

How do I use a libray wich I wish to include from all my stacks without experiencing this error? 

Is it practical (is RR open enough) to modify the distribution builder and ide to support project files?


Kevin




 --- On Sun 02/29, Richard Gaskin < ambassador at fourthworld.com > wrote:
From: Richard Gaskin [mailto: ambassador at fourthworld.com]
To: use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
Date: Sun, 29 Feb 2004 12:15:30 -0800
Subject: Re: Using libs from several stacks

Robert Brenstein wrote:<br><br>&gt; True, but issuing 'start using' second time should change the order of <br>&gt; used stacks but not produce an error message. There must be something <br>&gt; else going on yet. May be there is libraryStack handler used and it <br>&gt; tries to load sth second time.<br><br>The libraryStack message can be problematic, since to use it robustly <br>requires the same structure for any usage which is stack-specific:<br><br>on libraryStack<br>   if the short name of the target is the short name of me then<br>      -- do initialization stuff<br>   end if<br>   pass libraryStack<br>end libraryStack<br><br>Without that any stack brought into use will trigger the libraryStack <br>message for all other stacks in use (unless one of them isn't passing <br>the message, but not passing system messages for stacks distributed for <br>others to use is so untidy that I prefer to pretend it doesn't happen <br>&lt;g&gt; -- if anyone finds any of my libraries, frontscripts, or backscripts <br>not passing messages it's a bug and should be reported immediately).<br><br>-- <br>  Richard Gaskin<br>  Fourth World Media Corporation<br>  ___________________________________________________________<br>  Ambassador at FourthWorld.com       http://www.FourthWorld.com<br>_______________________________________________<br>use-revolution mailing list<br>use-revolution at lists.runrev.com<br>http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution<br>

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From shaosean at unitz.ca  Sun Feb 29 18:40:35 2004
From: shaosean at unitz.ca (shaosean at unitz.ca)
Date: Sun, 29 Feb 2004 18:40:35 -0500
Subject: Rev on ICQ ?
In-Reply-To: <404245EE.20807@fourthworld.com>
References: <E08B5D47-6B47-11D8-96E7-000393AA08D2@qldlearning.com>
	<404245EE.20807@fourthworld.com>
Message-ID: <WorldClient-F200402291840.AA40350805@unitz.ca>

> Shao Sean, did you hear that?  :)

hehe.. why are you looking at me?!  while i have thought of writing an 
AIM/ICQ/MSN library i don't actually use any of those services so i'd 
have no idea if anything actually works ;-)

on the other hand, many years ago i had started working on a chat/file 
client/server made completely in rev, using it's own protocol, to allow 
for a single source of information, files and real-time chat.. currently 
the protocol is undergoing a major overhaul to allow for a plug-in 
architecture and unicode..

until then..
-Sean


From monte at sweattechnologies.com  Sun Feb 29 18:46:58 2004
From: monte at sweattechnologies.com (Monte Goulding)
Date: Mon, 1 Mar 2004 10:16:58 +1030
Subject: Library Stacks PART II
In-Reply-To: <20040229232312.67FEB197360@xprdmailfe3.nwk.excite.com>
Message-ID: <FLEGJBMJADGKMCHIMFOHAEOFEBAA.monte@sweattechnologies.com>


>
> Okay, I guess I am little frustrated here.
>
> 1.  There is no construct  simular to Visual Basic where a
> project file controls the included stacks aka handlers (thus
> those stacks in project are in the message path).
>
> NOTE: This also prevents loading a stack that is already loaded.
>

Well a simple handler could do the trick:

on loadLibrary pLibrary
 if pLibrary is not among the lines of the stacksInUse then
   library pLibrary
 end if
end loadLibrary

> 2.  A start using from multiple stacks (main or sub) for the same
> library will cause a unnerving message from RR.
>
> How do I use a libray wich I wish to include from all my stacks
> without experiencing this error?

What's the error message? It may have somethign to do with your libraryStack
handler as others have suggested.
>
> Is it practical (is RR open enough) to modify the distribution
> builder and ide to support project files?

What kind of project file support do you need?

Cheers

Monte


From rodney at infiny.co.nz  Sun Feb 29 18:52:07 2004
From: rodney at infiny.co.nz (rodney tamblyn)
Date: Mon, 1 Mar 2004 12:52:07 +1300
Subject: bug - setting decorations stops resizestack message
Message-ID: <4891875E-6B12-11D8-A7E5-003065F97100@infiny.co.nz>

If you do:

set the rect of this stack to tRect
set the decorations of this stack to "default"

-> no resizeStack message will be sent.  Solution is to send one 
yourself:
send "resizeStack" to this card	

R.
--
Rodney Tamblyn
44 Melville Street
Dunedin
New Zealand
+64 3 4778606
http://rodney.weblogs.com/


From frank at backtalk.com  Sun Feb 29 19:11:56 2004
From: frank at backtalk.com (Frank Leahy)
Date: Mon, 1 Mar 2004 00:11:56 +0000
Subject: Library Stacks PART II
In-Reply-To: <20040229232339.C83B79300E2@mail.runrev.com>
Message-ID: <0CD18A3E-6B15-11D8-8E59-000A9580FCCE@backtalk.com>


On Sunday, February 29, 2004, at 11:23  PM, 
use-revolution-request at lists.runrev.com wrote:

>
> 2.  A start using from multiple stacks (main or sub) for the same 
> library will cause a unnerving message from RR.
>
> How do I use a libray wich I wish to include from all my stacks 
> without experiencing this error?
>

use try/catch

try
    start using stack "foo"
catch err
   -- ignore the error
end try

You might want to execute code in the catch that checks for different 
types of errors.  If I were you I would force an error to be thrown by 
starting to use a non-existent stack and use the debugger to see what's 
in "err".  Then I would throw an error by starting to use a stack for 
the second time, and see what's in "err" under that condition.  So your 
code might become:

try
   start using stack "foo"
catch err
    if err = "stack missing error" then -- change this to the correct 
error string
       answer error "Error: oops, stack foo couldn't be found!"
    else if err = "using stack twice" then -- change this also...
       -- ignore this error
     else
        answer error "Error: unknown error caught when call start using 
stack foo, err = " & err
end try

-- Frank


From frank at backtalk.com  Sun Feb 29 19:13:35 2004
From: frank at backtalk.com (Frank Leahy)
Date: Mon, 1 Mar 2004 00:13:35 +0000
Subject: use-revolution Digest, Vol 5, Issue 248
In-Reply-To: <20040229232339.C83B79300E2@mail.runrev.com>
Message-ID: <480655C5-6B15-11D8-8E59-000A9580FCCE@backtalk.com>


On Sunday, February 29, 2004, at 11:23  PM, 
use-revolution-request at lists.runrev.com wrote:

> Subject: Re: The "Answer with dialog"
> To: How to use Revolution <use-revolution at lists.runrev.com>
> Message-ID: <4884CA9C-6B04-11D8-9E0D-0030654C1E62 at realtorsgroup.us>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed
>
> Ok got that , now to trap the yes or whatever , I tried
> if it is "a" , didn't work out.
> also tried put it into it and then if it is "a" also not
> thanks hershrev.
>

Hershrev,

Do you know how to use the debugger?  If not it's really worth figuring 
out how to use it, because you could have answered your own question 
without having to wait for a reply email.

If you have this code in a button's script:

on mouseUp
    answer "Do you want to save?" with "No" or "Yes"
end mouseUp

Set a breakpoint on the "answer" line, close the script, then click the 
button.  When the debugger comes up, click "step over" -- the answer 
dialog will come up and you'll select either "Yes" or "No".  You'll now 
be back in the debugger on the "end mouseUp" line.  Now open the 
"Variable Watcher" window.  You'll see that the variable "it" has the 
name of the button you clicked.

Click Abort or Run to get out of the debugger, then edit your script 
like this:

on mouseUp
    answer "Do you want to save?" with "No" or "Yes"
    if it is "Yes" then
      ... do save...
    end if
end mouseUp

Hope this helps.

-- Frank


From kray at sonsothunder.com  Sun Feb 29 19:13:49 2004
From: kray at sonsothunder.com (Ken Ray)
Date: Sun, 29 Feb 2004 18:13:49 -0600
Subject: bug - setting decorations stops resizestack message
In-Reply-To: <4891875E-6B12-11D8-A7E5-003065F97100@infiny.co.nz>
Message-ID: <016a01c3ff22$15669080$6601a8c0@LightningFlash>

Rodney,

Do you actually *get* a resizeStack message when you change the rect of
a stack with script? I thought you only got it if the user resized the
window...

Ken Ray
Sons of Thunder Software
Email: kray at sonsothunder.com
Web Site: http://www.sonsothunder.com/ 

> -----Original Message-----
> From: use-revolution-bounces at lists.runrev.com 
> [mailto:use-revolution-bounces at lists.runrev.com] On Behalf Of 
> rodney tamblyn
> Sent: Sunday, February 29, 2004 5:52 PM
> To: How to use Revolution
> Subject: bug - setting decorations stops resizestack message
> 
> 
> If you do:
> 
> set the rect of this stack to tRect
> set the decorations of this stack to "default"
> 
> -> no resizeStack message will be sent.  Solution is to send one
> yourself:
> send "resizeStack" to this card	
> 
> R.
> --
> Rodney Tamblyn
> 44 Melville Street
> Dunedin
> New Zealand
> +64 3 4778606
> http://rodney.weblogs.com/
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com 
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-> revolution
> 



From dsc at swcp.com  Sun Feb 29 19:39:00 2004
From: dsc at swcp.com (Dar Scott)
Date: Sun, 29 Feb 2004 17:39:00 -0700
Subject: Problem with Image on background property
In-Reply-To: <002201c3fecb$19c76520$5602a8c0@athalon>
Message-ID: <D4DB9B7E-6B18-11D8-8E7A-000A9567A3E6@swcp.com>


On Sunday, February 29, 2004, at 06:51 AM, Stephen King wrote:

> Any ideas why each card sees the same image and why the image reference
> appears on new generated cards?

I think only field text and button highlight can be shared.

Create an unshared image from a group with a hidden field to contain a 
text version of the image.  Have the background or support library 
catch preOpenCard.

I have "unshared" custom controls, but this one is not ready for 
primetime yet.

Dar Scott


From kray at sonsothunder.com  Sun Feb 29 19:37:38 2004
From: kray at sonsothunder.com (Ken Ray)
Date: Sun, 29 Feb 2004 18:37:38 -0600
Subject: Library Stacks PART II
In-Reply-To: <20040229232312.67FEB197360@xprdmailfe3.nwk.excite.com>
Message-ID: <016d01c3ff25$68df18b0$6601a8c0@LightningFlash>

Kevin,

> 1.  There is no construct  simular to Visual Basic where a 
> project file controls the included stacks aka handlers (thus 
> those stacks in project are in the message path). 

There is no "project file", true, and I understand this is a different
paradigm and a bit hard to grab hold of. But perhaps this will help:

The message passing hierarchy is as follows. Note that some people see
messages going "up" through the hierarchy (like a helium-filled
balloon), and other see messages going "down" through the hierarchy
(like dropping a stone). Personally I see them going "up", but for this
example it seems easier to show messages going "down" from the target
object and if not trapped being passed to the next object in line):

   frontScript(script of object inserted "into front")
     |
   object
     |
   group (with backgroundBehavior turned off)
     |
   card
     |
   group (with backgroundBehavior turned on)
     |
   substack (stack script - if it exists)
     |
   mainstack (stack script)
     |
   library stack (the stack script of any stack "in use")
     |
   backscript (script of object inserted "into back")
     |
   Revolution engine

I won't get into frontscripts and backscripts at the moment, but as soon
as you put a stack "in use" (through the "start using" or "library"
command), its stack script is immediately inserted into the message
passing hierarchy and it receives messages that are not trapped by
"higher level" object. If you have a handler in a button that says:

  on mouseUp
    DoStuff
  end mouseUp

and then click on the button, the "DoStuff" command will start
Revolution engine looking for a handler to trap this message. As it goes
from the object "down" through the objects in the current containment
hierarachy (group/card/substack/stack) looking for a handler for
"DoStuff". As soon as it exits the mainstack, it then looks through
*all* of the stack scripts of the stacks that have been put "in use" (or
libraried) looking for a hit. If I have three stacks in use, and the
second one has this handler:

  on DoStuff
    answer "got it!"
  end DoStuff

I'll get the answer dialog showing up. If you want to handle the message
and then allow other objects in the message passing hierarchy to get a
crack at handling the message as well, you use "pass <handlerName>". So
using my example again:

-- Button on card:
on mouseUp
  DoStuff
end mouseUp

-- stack script of stack that "owns" the card that "owns" the button
on DoStuff
  answer "I got it!"
  pass DoStuff
end DoStuff

-- stack script of stack "libOne" put into use through "start using"
on DoStuff
  answer "I got it too!"
  pass DoStuff
end DoStuff

-- stack script of stack "libTwo" put into use through "start using"
on DoStuff
  answer "Me too!"
  pass DoStuff
end DoStuff

When I click on the button I'll get three dialogs and then an error from
Revolution (because I passed the "DoStuff" message that eventually made
its way to the Rev engine and it didn't know what "DoStuff" was). To
eliminate the error, I simply need to make sure that the last object to
get the message doesn't pass it.
 
> 2.  A start using from multiple stacks (main or sub) for the 
> same library will cause a unnerving message from RR.  

True. As you can see above, you only need to start using *once* for each
stack, and then it is available from that point on to all stacks that
are open.

> How do I use a libray wich I wish to include from all my 
> stacks without experiencing this error? 

Well as I mentioned above, you only need to load it once, but if for
some reason you have a stack that opens that needs to use a certain
library and isn't sure whether the supporting library has been loaded or
not (and if not, it will load it itself), you can check the
libraryStacks (or the stacksInUse) and see if the library exists. For
example:

on preOpenStack
  if "libOne" is not among the lines of the stacksInUse then
    start using "libOne"
  end if
  -- (etc.)
end preOpenStack

> Is it practical (is RR open enough) to modify the 
> distribution builder and ide to support project files?

It depends on if you can provide some advantage to what's already there.
You can certainly request and enhancement by logging it in Bugzilla with
a type of "enhancement".

HTH,

Ken Ray
Sons of Thunder Software
Email: kray at sonsothunder.com
Web Site: http://www.sonsothunder.com/ 



From dsc at swcp.com  Sun Feb 29 20:05:18 2004
From: dsc at swcp.com (Dar Scott)
Date: Sun, 29 Feb 2004 18:05:18 -0700
Subject: Library Stacks PART II
In-Reply-To: <20040229232312.67FEB197360@xprdmailfe3.nwk.excite.com>
Message-ID: <8163B513-6B1C-11D8-8E7A-000A9567A3E6@swcp.com>


On Sunday, February 29, 2004, at 04:23 PM, Kevin wrote:

> 2.  A start using from multiple stacks (main or sub) for the same 
> library will cause a unnerving message from RR.

I'm not able to duplicate this.  What am I missing?  I'm using 
stackFiles.

Dar Scott


From nnoydb at excite.com  Sun Feb 29 22:26:29 2004
From: nnoydb at excite.com (Kevin)
Date: Sun, 29 Feb 2004 22:26:29 -0500 (EST)
Subject: Library Stacks PART II
Message-ID: <20040301032629.D4153197343@xprdmailfe3.nwk.excite.com>



Let me be a bit more specific.

I have a library lets call it basic.rev it contains the handler below.  This handler "package" resides in basic.rev in RR application directory and is included by other libraries who utilise this handler.  For example "math.rev"  and "graph.rev" wich to utilise "package" must "start using "basic.rev" which will cause a comflict when both libs must be used in the same program/stack.  I am opposed to just willy nilly copying and pasting code it breaks the fundamentals of development.  Should "package" or one of the so called utility handlers change I wish to changed it in the one right place not throughout several programs!

Kevin



on package thePackage
  
  local myContext, myLine, myDirectory, myShortPackage
  
  put thePackage into myShortPackage 
  
  get matchText( thePackage, ".+/(.*)", myShortPackage)
  
  replace quote with empty in myShortPackage 

  if myShortPackage is among the lines of the stacksInUse then return 
  
  put currentContext() into myContext 
  
  put line -2 of myContext into myContext 
  put item -3 of myContext into myContext
  
  put the last word of myContext into myContext
  
  replace quote with empty in myContext
  
  get matchText( myContext, "(.*\/)", myDirectory )
   
  set the directory to myDirectory 
  
  start using thePackage
  
end package

I\


-==-=-=-=-=-=-==-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-==-=-=-=-=-=-
Disclaimer:

Any resemblance between the above views and those of my
employer, my terminal, or the view out my window are purely
coincidental. 
Any resemblance between the above and my own views is non-deterministic.

 The question of the existence of views in the absence of anyone to hold
them
is left as an exercise for the reader. The question of the existence of
the reader
 is left as an exercise for the second god coefficient. 
(A discussion of non-orthogonal, non-integral polytheism is beyond the
scope of this article.)



 --- On Sun 02/29, Dar Scott < dsc at swcp.com > wrote:
From: Dar Scott [mailto: dsc at swcp.com]
To: use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
Date: Sun, 29 Feb 2004 18:05:18 -0700
Subject: Re: Library Stacks PART II

<br>On Sunday, February 29, 2004, at 04:23 PM, Kevin wrote:<br><br>&gt; 2.  A start using from multiple stacks (main or sub) for the same <br>&gt; library will cause a unnerving message from RR.<br><br>I'm not able to duplicate this.  What am I missing?  I'm using <br>stackFiles.<br><br>Dar Scott<br><br>_______________________________________________<br>use-revolution mailing list<br>use-revolution at lists.runrev.com<br>http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution<br>

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From jacque at hyperactivesw.com  Sun Feb 29 22:31:32 2004
From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay)
Date: Sun, 29 Feb 2004 21:31:32 -0600
Subject: Library Stacks PART II
In-Reply-To: <20040229232312.67FEB197360@xprdmailfe3.nwk.excite.com>
References: <20040229232312.67FEB197360@xprdmailfe3.nwk.excite.com>
Message-ID: <4042AE94.5060106@hyperactivesw.com>

On 2/29/04 5:23 PM, Kevin wrote:

> 2.  A start using from multiple stacks (main or sub) for the same
> library will cause a unnerving message from RR.

I have never received any errors, no matter how many times I put the 
same stack into use. The only thing that should happen is that the 
layering order of the scripts in use will change, if you have more than 
one, with the most-recently "used" script moving ahead of all the 
others. Re-using an already-in-use stack is, in fact, an established way 
to change the order of the stacks in use. If you only have one stack in 
use, re-using it does nothing.

The error must be coming from something else. What is the exact error 
message?

-- 
Jacqueline Landman Gay         |     jacque at hyperactivesw.com
HyperActive Software           |     http://www.hyperactivesw.com

From scott at tactilemedia.com  Sun Feb 29 22:34:00 2004
From: scott at tactilemedia.com (Scott Rossi)
Date: Sun, 29 Feb 2004 19:34:00 -0800
Subject: "Read" a URL?
Message-ID: <BC67EF28.A85B%scott@tactilemedia.com>

Is it possible to *read* a Web based file, as opposed to *put*-ting the url
into a container?

I'm wondering if it's possible to read the last line of a text file stored
on the Web, instead of downloading the whole 2MB file into a variable.  So
far:

  open file net_address_of_file for read

...returns "can't open that file".

Thanks & Regards,

Scott Rossi
Creative Director
Tactile Media, Development & Design
-----
E: scott at tactilemedia.com
W: http://www.tactilemedia.com


From nnoydb at excite.com  Sun Feb 29 22:35:14 2004
From: nnoydb at excite.com (Kevin)
Date: Sun, 29 Feb 2004 22:35:14 -0500 (EST)
Subject: Library Stacks PART II
Message-ID: <20040301033514.42C943DF1@xprdmailfe12.nwk.excite.com>


I will retest my sample and see if any exceptions possible cause this error.



-==-=-=-=-=-=-==-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-==-=-=-=-=-=-
Disclaimer:

Any resemblance between the above views and those of my
employer, my terminal, or the view out my window are purely
coincidental. 
Any resemblance between the above and my own views is non-deterministic.

 The question of the existence of views in the absence of anyone to hold
them
is left as an exercise for the reader. The question of the existence of
the reader
 is left as an exercise for the second god coefficient. 
(A discussion of non-orthogonal, non-integral polytheism is beyond the
scope of this article.)



 --- On Sun 02/29, J. Landman Gay < jacque at hyperactivesw.com > wrote:
From: J. Landman Gay [mailto: jacque at hyperactivesw.com]
To: use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
Date: Sun, 29 Feb 2004 21:31:32 -0600
Subject: Re: Library Stacks PART II

On 2/29/04 5:23 PM, Kevin wrote:<br><br>&gt; 2.  A start using from multiple stacks (main or sub) for the same<br>&gt; library will cause a unnerving message from RR.<br><br>I have never received any errors, no matter how many times I put the <br>same stack into use. The only thing that should happen is that the <br>layering order of the scripts in use will change, if you have more than <br>one, with the most-recently &quot;used&quot; script moving ahead of all the <br>others. Re-using an already-in-use stack is, in fact, an established way <br>to change the order of the stacks in use. If you only have one stack in <br>use, re-using it does nothing.<br><br>The error must be coming from something else. What is the exact error <br>message?<br><br>-- <br>Jacqueline Landman Gay         |     jacque at hyperactivesw.com<br>HyperActive Software           |     http://www.hyperactivesw.com<br>_______________________________________________<br>use-revolution mailing list<br>use-revolution at lists.runrev.com<br>http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution<br>

_______________________________________________
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From jacque at hyperactivesw.com  Sun Feb 29 22:36:39 2004
From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay)
Date: Sun, 29 Feb 2004 21:36:39 -0600
Subject: Library Stacks PART II
In-Reply-To: <8163B513-6B1C-11D8-8E7A-000A9567A3E6@swcp.com>
References: <8163B513-6B1C-11D8-8E7A-000A9567A3E6@swcp.com>
Message-ID: <4042AFC7.9060900@hyperactivesw.com>

On 2/29/04 7:05 PM, Dar Scott wrote:

> 
> On Sunday, February 29, 2004, at 04:23 PM, Kevin wrote:
> 
>> 2.  A start using from multiple stacks (main or sub) for the same 
>> library will cause a unnerving message from RR.
> 
> 
> I'm not able to duplicate this.  What am I missing?  I'm using stackFiles.


Interesting. I've never gotten an error either, and I just tried to make 
one happen without success. Two say it happens, two don't. Wonder what 
the error is.

-- 
Jacqueline Landman Gay         |     jacque at hyperactivesw.com
HyperActive Software           |     http://www.hyperactivesw.com

From ambassador at fourthworld.com  Sun Feb 29 22:42:04 2004
From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin)
Date: Sun, 29 Feb 2004 19:42:04 -0800
Subject: Library Stacks PART II
In-Reply-To: <4042AE94.5060106@hyperactivesw.com>
References: <20040229232312.67FEB197360@xprdmailfe3.nwk.excite.com>
	<4042AE94.5060106@hyperactivesw.com>
Message-ID: <4042B10C.8050903@fourthworld.com>

J. Landman Gay wrote:
> On 2/29/04 5:23 PM, Kevin wrote:
> 
>> 2.  A start using from multiple stacks (main or sub) for the same
>> library will cause a unnerving message from RR.
> 
> 
> I have never received any errors, no matter how many times I put the 
> same stack into use. The only thing that should happen is that the 
> layering order of the scripts in use will change

It may be worth noting that even then there is no conflict:  backscripts 
and libraries are all treated as being in effectively the same level in 
the message path; any library or backscript can call any other, without 
regard to the order in which they were put into the message path.  The 
only time the order of insertion is enforced is when there are two 
handlers with the same name in different scripts.

--
  Richard Gaskin
  Fourth World Media Corporation
  ___________________________________________________________
  Ambassador at FourthWorld.com       http://www.FourthWorld.com

From ambassador at fourthworld.com  Sun Feb 29 22:44:11 2004
From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin)
Date: Sun, 29 Feb 2004 19:44:11 -0800
Subject: Library Stacks PART II
In-Reply-To: <4042AFC7.9060900@hyperactivesw.com>
References: <8163B513-6B1C-11D8-8E7A-000A9567A3E6@swcp.com>
	<4042AFC7.9060900@hyperactivesw.com>
Message-ID: <4042B18B.5080406@fourthworld.com>

J. Landman Gay wrote:

>>> 2.  A start using from multiple stacks (main or sub) for the same 
>>> library will cause a unnerving message from RR.
>>
>> I'm not able to duplicate this.  What am I missing?  I'm using 
>> stackFiles.
> 
> Interesting. I've never gotten an error either, and I just tried to make 
> one happen without success. Two say it happens, two don't. Wonder what 
> the error is.

The only unexpected side effects I've ever encountered were when I had 
libraried stacks which did not check to see if they were the target in 
their libraryStack handlers, causing them to re-initialize.

-- 
  Richard Gaskin
  Fourth World Media Corporation
  ___________________________________________________________
  Ambassador at FourthWorld.com       http://www.FourthWorld.com

From nnoydb at excite.com  Sun Feb 29 22:44:27 2004
From: nnoydb at excite.com (Kevin)
Date: Sun, 29 Feb 2004 22:44:27 -0500 (EST)
Subject: Library Stacks PART II
Message-ID: <20040301034427.3CA763D07@xprdmailfe4.nwk.excite.com>


Damn....

I think I understand now.

The IDE thinks libBasics.rev and libBasics are 2 different stacks not the exact same stack included with different conventions (one with extension on without)


Kevin





-==-=-=-=-=-=-==-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-==-=-=-=-=-=-
Disclaimer:

Any resemblance between the above views and those of my
employer, my terminal, or the view out my window are purely
coincidental. 
Any resemblance between the above and my own views is non-deterministic.

 The question of the existence of views in the absence of anyone to hold
them
is left as an exercise for the reader. The question of the existence of
the reader
 is left as an exercise for the second god coefficient. 
(A discussion of non-orthogonal, non-integral polytheism is beyond the
scope of this article.)



 --- On Sun 02/29, J. Landman Gay < jacque at hyperactivesw.com > wrote:
From: J. Landman Gay [mailto: jacque at hyperactivesw.com]
To: use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
Date: Sun, 29 Feb 2004 21:36:39 -0600
Subject: Re: Library Stacks PART II

On 2/29/04 7:05 PM, Dar Scott wrote:<br><br>&gt; <br>&gt; On Sunday, February 29, 2004, at 04:23 PM, Kevin wrote:<br>&gt; <br>&gt;&gt; 2.  A start using from multiple stacks (main or sub) for the same <br>&gt;&gt; library will cause a unnerving message from RR.<br>&gt; <br>&gt; <br>&gt; I'm not able to duplicate this.  What am I missing?  I'm using stackFiles.<br><br><br>Interesting. I've never gotten an error either, and I just tried to make <br>one happen without success. Two say it happens, two don't. Wonder what <br>the error is.<br><br>-- <br>Jacqueline Landman Gay         |     jacque at hyperactivesw.com<br>HyperActive Software           |     http://www.hyperactivesw.com<br>_______________________________________________<br>use-revolution mailing list<br>use-revolution at lists.runrev.com<br>http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution<br>

_______________________________________________
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From ambassador at fourthworld.com  Sun Feb 29 23:05:03 2004
From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin)
Date: Sun, 29 Feb 2004 20:05:03 -0800
Subject: Library Stacks PART II
In-Reply-To: <20040301034427.3CA763D07@xprdmailfe4.nwk.excite.com>
References: <20040301034427.3CA763D07@xprdmailfe4.nwk.excite.com>
Message-ID: <4042B66F.2000901@fourthworld.com>

Kevin wrote:

> Damn....
> 
> I think I understand now.
> 
> The IDE thinks libBasics.rev and libBasics are 2 different
 > stacks not the exact same stack included with different
 > conventions (one with extension on without)

Good sleuthing!

I wonder if that would constitute a bug?

-- 
  Richard Gaskin
  Fourth World Media Corporation
  ___________________________________________________________
  Ambassador at FourthWorld.com       http://www.FourthWorld.com

From pixelbird at interisland.net  Sun Feb 29 23:52:12 2004
From: pixelbird at interisland.net (Ken Norris)
Date: Sun, 29 Feb 2004 20:52:12 -0800
Subject: More scrolling images
In-Reply-To: <20040229070901.A15E69300A6@mail.runrev.com>
Message-ID: <BC68017C.5387%pixelbird@interisland.net>

Hi Dar,

> Date: Sat, 28 Feb 2004 23:44:56 -0700
> From: Dar Scott <dsc at swcp.com>
> Subject: Re: More scrolling images
> 
> 
> On Saturday, February 28, 2004, at 10:24 PM, Ken Norris wrote:
> 
>> OK, I now know how to scroll an image in a stack window, _but_
>> 
>> Is it possible to scroll a large image inside a graphic?
> 
> If you want a rectangle, yes.  Do the same thing as on the card for the
> other one.  Make the group smaller.  Put a border on it.  lockloc.  If
> you want to move it around, put a group around it and set the margins
> of that to 0, but don't lockloc that one.
-----------
Thanks for the Re.

I'm afraid I don't understand. Group the image? The grc? Putting a group
around something is nonsequiter to me...how does one do that?

I understand the meaning of margins in a field, but not in a graphic, so I
need a little explanation for that too.

Thanks,
Ken N.