From pixelbird at interisland.net Fri Mar 1 02:13:01 2002 From: pixelbird at interisland.net (Ken Norris (dialup)) Date: Fri Mar 1 02:13:01 2002 Subject: Mouse polling answers for Scott In-Reply-To: Message-ID: on 2/28/02 6:32 PM, Geoff Canyon at gcanyon at inspiredlogic.com wrote: > repeat while the mouse is down > --do something > end repeat > > repeat > if the mouse is down then exit repeat > --do something > end repeat > > The second simply makes it clearer what is happening.If the loop takes a while > to execute, for example: > > repeat while the mouse is down > repeat with i = 5000 down to 1 > put i > end repeat > end repeat ---------- I won't have time to play with it until Monday or Tuesday, but how about: on mouseDown repeat until the mouse is up -- instead of 'while the mouse is down' keepStuffInAHoldingPattern end repeat doOtherStuffLikeAMouseUpDoes end mouseDown ...? Best regards, Ken N. From matt.denton at limelight.com.au Fri Mar 1 02:24:01 2002 From: matt.denton at limelight.com.au (Matt Denton) Date: Fri Mar 1 02:24:01 2002 Subject: Future Events and Summertime/ DLST In-Reply-To: <200203010326.WAA20981@www.runrev.com> Message-ID: Hi all, THE ISSUE I'm trying to send a future event message, with a construct something like: "send to me at <12:00pm> on ". I'm converting everything to seconds, adding to a Master event list and comparing to the current time to each item in the list. Problem is the future time in seconds is incorrect when you pass in or out of summertime/ daylight savings time. Convert "June 12, 2002" to seconds doesn't take into account summertime/ daylight savings time in each country (I think?? Can anyone at Rev confirm??) MY QUESTION Just a quick question: does anyone know where I can find the rules for summertime/ day-light saving time for all countries of the world? I've hunted but only found snippets of info, nothing comprehensive. Just thought I'd tickle the list in case someone has dealt with this issue before. And thanks in advance to anyone who has an answer! Cheers, Matt Denton From brasmussen at earthlink.net Fri Mar 1 02:50:00 2002 From: brasmussen at earthlink.net (Bob Rasmussen) Date: Fri Mar 1 02:50:00 2002 Subject: wait for messages References: <200202260918.EAA10632@www.runrev.com> Message-ID: <3C7F31FD.C0DFF5FE@earthlink.net> David, I appreciate the research you did on this. You've clarified many of the issues I raised. I'm still experimenting, trying to better understand how multiple waits of various sorts interact with oneanother. My interest has to do with attempting to emulate some sort of rudimentary multithreading behavior with a centralized scheduler that can dole out processing time in a controlled fashion. I believe "send ... in " semantics alone aren't quite up to that. Given the way messaging works in TransScript, threads would have to be cooperative, of course, but I can work around that. Although I still have some timing questions to resolve, I think I've got much of it figured out. The other "wait" forms are very useful, but "wait for messages" is turning out to have no role in my particular application, now that I know what it's doing. Thanks for your help. RR David Vaughan wrote: > On Tuesday, February 26, 2002, at 12:11 , David Vaughan wrote various > things readable in the previous post by me under this title :-) > > Replying to myself ;-) ... of course the "wait {N time} with messages" > will wait the time you define while allowing other actions, and is not > accelerated by those actions, whereas "wait {N time}" simply waits. None > of this makes "wait for messages", apparently meaning a random time up > to half a second, very useful ... so far. > > regards > David From jeanne at runrev.com Fri Mar 1 03:05:01 2002 From: jeanne at runrev.com (Jeanne A. E. DeVoto) Date: Fri Mar 1 03:05:01 2002 Subject: custom properties In-Reply-To: Message-ID: At 5:15 AM -0800 2/28/2002, Steve Messimer wrote: > I want to check a cd for the presence or absence of a custom >property. If the property doesn't exist then I want to create it. The >presence of the property will act as a flag that indicates that the object >has already had a controlling handler added to its script. > >Would the properties placed in propCker be placed there as in an array so I >could use a repeat structure to check for the presence of the property I'm >looking for. This is far more complicated than you need if all you're doing is checking for the existence of the property. This will do it (assuming the name of the property is "MyScriptFlag": if "MyScriptFlag" is not among the lines of \ the customKeys of card "Whatever" then -- property doesn't exist, so create it set the MyScriptFlag of card "Whatever" to true -- the above line creates the custom property as well as setting -- its value -- do whatever you want to do with the script end if -- Jeanne A. E. DeVoto ~ jeanne at runrev.com http://www.runrev.com/ Runtime Revolution Limited - Power to the Developer! From jeanne at runrev.com Fri Mar 1 04:14:01 2002 From: jeanne at runrev.com (Jeanne A. E. DeVoto) Date: Fri Mar 1 04:14:01 2002 Subject: wait for messages In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: At 5:26 PM -0800 2/25/2002, David Vaughan wrote: >Replying to myself ;-) ... of course the "wait {N time} with messages" >will wait the time you define while allowing other actions, and is not >accelerated by those actions, whereas "wait {N time}" simply waits. None >of this makes "wait for messages", apparently meaning a random time up >to half a second, very useful ... so far. I have taken a look at what "wait for messages" is doing. It works as documented - that is, it waits until a message is sent - in a standalone (or in MC, for that matter) but it times out after 30 seconds in Rev's development environment. In these situations your handler shows results as you'd expect. My best guess at the moment is that the dev environment is sending a message every 30 seconds that has the effect of timing out wait for messages.... I'm still getting more info on this and whether it might be changeable. But it does work properly in a standalone, or when launched without the development environment running. -- Jeanne A. E. DeVoto ~ jeanne at runrev.com http://www.runrev.com/ Runtime Revolution Limited - Power to the Developer! From ludovic.thebault at laposte.net Fri Mar 1 05:14:01 2002 From: ludovic.thebault at laposte.net (Ludovic =?iso-8859-1?Q?Th=E9bault?=) Date: Fri Mar 1 05:14:01 2002 Subject: Screenrect and geometry manager References: Message-ID: <3C7F53AF.57C8CDC4@laposte.net> Hello, I created a stack for childs. I want that the window occupies all the screen. To work with all resolution, i use the geometry manager. If i change the size of the stack, with the stack properties, its works, but only for the current card. In the openstack script i put : set the rect of stack "theStack" to the screenrect but the size of objects does not adapt itself in a standalone. How tell to all cards of my stack to change their size ? Thanks, and sorry for my poor english. From drvaughan55 at mac.com Fri Mar 1 05:16:00 2002 From: drvaughan55 at mac.com (David Vaughan) Date: Fri Mar 1 05:16:00 2002 Subject: wait for messages In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <0D3657BE-2CFD-11D6-B5DC-000393598038@mac.com> Jeanne I definitely and repeatably measure 30 ticks in the Rev Dev environment - half a second. No message recognisable by Umbrellaman (nor Idle nor mouseWithin, which Uman does not watch) triggered the break so I assume it was caused by an internal "send...in.." or equivalent rather than a Transcript event message. This was on OS X 10.1.3. Are you really getting 30 seconds, not 30 ticks, or was that a typo? If you are, why the difference (it might be a clue to the cause)? I confirmed it works as you say in the runtime environment ... which is pretty interesting ... might we have some documentation of this fact please, while waiting for decisions on a fix...? :-) cheers David On Friday, March 1, 2002, at 07:16 , Jeanne A. E. DeVoto wrote: > At 5:26 PM -0800 2/25/2002, David Vaughan wrote: >> Replying to myself ;-) ... of course the "wait {N time} with messages" >> will wait the time you define while allowing other actions, and is not >> accelerated by those actions, whereas "wait {N time}" simply waits. >> None >> of this makes "wait for messages", apparently meaning a random time up >> to half a second, very useful ... so far. > > I have taken a look at what "wait for messages" is doing. It works as > documented - that is, it waits until a message is sent - in a standalone > (or in MC, for that matter) but it times out after 30 seconds in Rev's > development environment. In these situations your handler shows results > as > you'd expect. My best guess at the moment is that the dev environment is > sending a message every 30 seconds that has the effect of timing out > wait > for messages.... I'm still getting more info on this and whether it > might > be changeable. > > But it does work properly in a standalone, or when launched without the > development environment running. > > -- > Jeanne A. E. DeVoto ~ jeanne at runrev.com > http://www.runrev.com/ > Runtime Revolution Limited - Power to the Developer! > > > _______________________________________________ > use-revolution mailing list > use-revolution at lists.runrev.com > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution > From jeanne at runrev.com Fri Mar 1 05:19:01 2002 From: jeanne at runrev.com (Jeanne A. E. DeVoto) Date: Fri Mar 1 05:19:01 2002 Subject: wait for messages In-Reply-To: <0D3657BE-2CFD-11D6-B5DC-000393598038@mac.com> References: Message-ID: At 2:14 AM -0800 3/1/2002, David Vaughan wrote: >Are you really getting 30 seconds, not 30 ticks, or was that a typo? It was a typo. >I confirmed it works as you say in the runtime environment ... which is >pretty interesting ... might we have some documentation of this fact >please, while waiting for decisions on a fix...? :-) It will be in the readme if it's not fixed by the next version. -- Jeanne A. E. DeVoto ~ jeanne at runrev.com http://www.runrev.com/ Runtime Revolution Limited - Power to the Developer! From benr_mc at cogapp.com Fri Mar 1 05:33:01 2002 From: benr_mc at cogapp.com (Ben Rubinstein) Date: Fri Mar 1 05:33:01 2002 Subject: Plain text posts please In-Reply-To: Message-ID: on 28/2/02 5:27 AM, Ken Norris (dialup) at pixelbird at interisland.net wrote: >> try http://lists.runrev.com/pipermail/use-revolution/ > ---------- > This will be very helpful. I was hoping for an online list access, though, > back for more than 4 months. Is anyone storing them historically? Pathetic to relate, I have them all (apart from a small number of posts from people who went on my auto delete list) - also all of improve-rev, and about four months of the prior combined list. Happy to send them to Ken, but obviously the most useful thing would be if they could be merged into the online archives. My assumption is that you folks at RunRev have the raw data, but not the time to process it right now. But if it would be useful for me to send someone there my copy of the archive, please let me know. Ben Rubinstein | Email: benr_mc at cogapp.com Cognitive Applications Ltd | Phone: +44 (0)1273-821600 http://www.cogapp.com | Fax : +44 (0)1273-728866 From jeanne at runrev.com Fri Mar 1 05:43:01 2002 From: jeanne at runrev.com (Jeanne A. E. DeVoto) Date: Fri Mar 1 05:43:01 2002 Subject: Patterns on Mac/PC In-Reply-To: <28.22cb5293.29b04d34@aol.com> Message-ID: At 7:19 PM -0800 2/28/2002, JohnRule at aol.com wrote: >If I then transfer this stack to a Macintosh, the buttons >represent the pattern as if the pattern were the size of >the stack (or screen). In other words, the pattern is >reflected differently in every button on the Mac (the >pattern is not redrawn at a 0,0, coordinate for each button). Do you see this same result if you set the pattern property on the Mac (in other words, not transferring the stack)? Or is it only when transferring stacks that have had their pattern set on Windows? -- Jeanne A. E. DeVoto ~ jeanne at runrev.com http://www.runrev.com/ Runtime Revolution Limited - Power to the Developer! From Stgecft at aol.com Fri Mar 1 08:08:01 2002 From: Stgecft at aol.com (Stgecft at aol.com) Date: Fri Mar 1 08:08:01 2002 Subject: Screenrect and geometry manager Message-ID: In a message dated 3/1/02 5:12:59 AM, ludovic.thebault at laposte.net writes: << set the rect of stack "theStack" to the screenrect >> Make sure you are saving the stack or it will go back to it's previous state. Randy Kent Stagecraft, Inc. From Stgecft at aol.com Fri Mar 1 08:12:01 2002 From: Stgecft at aol.com (Stgecft at aol.com) Date: Fri Mar 1 08:12:01 2002 Subject: Plain text posts please Message-ID: <161.99c2361.29b0d785@aol.com> In a message dated 3/1/02 5:31:49 AM, benr_mc at cogapp.com writes: << Happy to send them to Ken, but obviously the most useful thing would be if they could be merged into the online archives. My assumption is that you folks at RunRev have the raw data, but not the time to process it right now. But if it would be useful for me to send someone there my copy of the archive, please let me know. >> I'd be interested in having the aechive. Randy Kent Stagecraft, inc. From pixelbird at interisland.net Fri Mar 1 12:41:01 2002 From: pixelbird at interisland.net (Ken Norris (dialup)) Date: Fri Mar 1 12:41:01 2002 Subject: Plain text posts please In-Reply-To: Message-ID: on 3/1/02 2:30 AM, Ben Rubinstein at benr_mc at cogapp.com wrote: > Pathetic to relate, I have them all (apart from a small number of posts from > people who went on my auto delete list) - also all of improve-rev, and about > four months of the prior combined list. > > Happy to send them to Ken, but obviously the most useful thing would be if > they could be merged into the online archives. My assumption is that you > folks at RunRev have the raw data, but not the time to process it right now. > But if it would be useful for me to send someone there my copy of the > archive, please let me know. ---------- Hardly pathetic, Ben. Though RR uses the MetaCard engine, and is similar to HC, it's still a new environment. I'd think many could benefit from the archived data. I'd love to have it, but I need some idea how much _memory_ the files take up. I want to put them and all the docs on a separate older machine dedicated to nothing but reference, so I can access them without toggling in and out of the stack I'm working on. The effect would be similar to having a reference book (like HYPERTALK THE BOOK 2.2) open next to the computer, something I do all the time with HC. In fact, if I set it up integrated with Geoff's "revrtfer.rev" stack, lookups would be faster than the book, plus I could have the docs show me relative archival stuff, too. I, for one, am glad you did what you did. The files are probably too large to send in email, eh? If you can burn a disk (standard disks can hold 700mb) playable on older macs, I'd be happy to reimberse you for time, disk, mailing, whatever. Thanks, Ken N. From Stgecft at aol.com Fri Mar 1 13:03:01 2002 From: Stgecft at aol.com (Stgecft at aol.com) Date: Fri Mar 1 13:03:01 2002 Subject: mySQL Message-ID: <94.223f92cc.29b11b9c@aol.com> Niklas Almesj?, A couple of weeks ago you were looking for help for working with a data base. Did you get that help? I am now at that same point and would like the same info you were looking for. If you read this why not contact me off list at my e-mail address. I'd rather not bore everyone on the list with what would probably be redundant info. Thanks, Randy Kent From bvlahos at jpl.nasa.gov Fri Mar 1 13:09:01 2002 From: bvlahos at jpl.nasa.gov (Bill Vlahos) Date: Fri Mar 1 13:09:01 2002 Subject: Crazy for cursors Message-ID: <0FEC47D8-2D3F-11D6-8D99-003065E6E4BC@jpl.nasa.gov> I have 1.1.1B1 installed on several development Macs (mostly OS X). When I look at the Image Library on one of them I see a Custom Cursors library. However, I only see it on one of the computers and not the others and I can't tell where it comes from. 1. How do I get it to the other installations (I don't see a "cursors file"? 2. How can I embed it into the stack? I can insert either the image or button reference but there is no button for cursor. Going crazy, Bill Vlahos From bvlahos at jpl.nasa.gov Fri Mar 1 17:02:01 2002 From: bvlahos at jpl.nasa.gov (Bill Vlahos) Date: Fri Mar 1 17:02:01 2002 Subject: Can't do the math Message-ID: <9A2210D0-2D5F-11D6-9097-003065E6E4BC@jpl.nasa.gov> Using Rev 1.1.1B1 on Mac OS X the if statement below doesn't work correctly. Here is the variable varAllGroups: root::0:root other::1: bin::2:root,bin,daemon sys::3:root,bin,sys,adm Here is the script: replace ":" with space in varAllGroups --to make words for parsing repeat with x = 1 to the number of lines in varAllGroups if word 3 of line x of varAllGroups > 100 then put first word of line x of varAllGroups & return after field "allgroups" end if end repeat The if statement doesn't do the math correctly. The lines 1, 3, and 4 evaluate to true when they shouldn't. Bill Vlahos From shaosean at unitz.ca Fri Mar 1 17:08:01 2002 From: shaosean at unitz.ca (Shao Sean) Date: Fri Mar 1 17:08:01 2002 Subject: Can't do the math References: <9A2210D0-2D5F-11D6-9097-003065E6E4BC@jpl.nasa.gov> Message-ID: <000701c1c16d$1e5864b0$88b15bd1@dreamlanpc> try this instead..? # replace ":" with space in varAllGroups --to make words for parsing set the itemDelimiter to ":" -- replaces the line above repeat with x = 1 to the number of lines in varAllGroups # if word 3 of line x of varAllGroups > 100 then if item 3 of line x of varAllGroups > 100 then -- replaces the line above put first word of line x of varAllGroups & return after field "allgroups" end if end repeat From JAMES.G.YATES at saic.com Fri Mar 1 17:32:01 2002 From: JAMES.G.YATES at saic.com (Yates, Glen) Date: Fri Mar 1 17:32:01 2002 Subject: Can't do the math Message-ID: <33F0B58BF432D211B72200805FEFAAD905A5A9@hun-its-exs01.saic.com> When parsing words, multiple spaces are ignored, so word 3 ends up being the first user in the group, not the group number you want to test against, so try this instead. set the itemDelimiter to ":" repeat with x = 1 to the number of lines in varAllGroups if item 3 of line x of varAllGroups > 100 then put first item of line x of varAllGroups & return after field "allgroups" end if end repeat -Glen Yates -----Original Message----- From: Bill Vlahos [mailto:bvlahos at jpl.nasa.gov] Sent: Friday, March 01, 2002 3:59 PM To: use-revolution at lists.runrev.com Subject: Can't do the math Using Rev 1.1.1B1 on Mac OS X the if statement below doesn't work correctly. Here is the variable varAllGroups: root::0:root other::1: bin::2:root,bin,daemon sys::3:root,bin,sys,adm Here is the script: replace ":" with space in varAllGroups --to make words for parsing repeat with x = 1 to the number of lines in varAllGroups if word 3 of line x of varAllGroups > 100 then put first word of line x of varAllGroups & return after field "allgroups" end if end repeat The if statement doesn't do the math correctly. The lines 1, 3, and 4 evaluate to true when they shouldn't. Bill Vlahos From bvlahos at jpl.nasa.gov Fri Mar 1 18:15:01 2002 From: bvlahos at jpl.nasa.gov (Bill Vlahos) Date: Fri Mar 1 18:15:01 2002 Subject: Can't do the math In-Reply-To: <33F0B58BF432D211B72200805FEFAAD905A5A9@hun-its-exs01.saic.com> Message-ID: It doesn't work either. Strangely enough, if I do it the original way, even lines that resulted in 2 spaces, if I put word 3 after the field the correct numbers were put in. I'm still puzzled. Bill Vlahos On Friday, March 1, 2002, at 02:27 PM, Yates, Glen wrote: > When parsing words, multiple spaces are ignored, so word 3 ends up > being the > first user in the group, not the group number you want to test against, > so > try this instead. > > set the itemDelimiter to ":" > repeat with x = 1 to the number of lines in varAllGroups > if item 3 of line x of varAllGroups > 100 then > put first item of line x of varAllGroups & return after field > "allgroups" > end if > end repeat > > -Glen Yates > > -----Original Message----- > From: Bill Vlahos [mailto:bvlahos at jpl.nasa.gov] > Sent: Friday, March 01, 2002 3:59 PM > To: use-revolution at lists.runrev.com > Subject: Can't do the math > > > Using Rev 1.1.1B1 on Mac OS X the if statement below doesn't work > correctly. > Here is the variable varAllGroups: > > root::0:root > other::1: > bin::2:root,bin,daemon > sys::3:root,bin,sys,adm > > Here is the script: > > replace ":" with space in varAllGroups --to make words for parsing > repeat with x = 1 to the number of lines in varAllGroups > if word 3 of line x of varAllGroups > 100 then > put first word of line x of varAllGroups & return after field > "allgroups" > end if > end repeat > > The if statement doesn't do the math correctly. The lines 1, 3, and 4 > evaluate to true when they shouldn't. > > Bill Vlahos > _______________________________________________ > use-revolution mailing list > use-revolution at lists.runrev.com > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution From bvlahos at jpl.nasa.gov Fri Mar 1 18:21:01 2002 From: bvlahos at jpl.nasa.gov (Bill Vlahos) Date: Fri Mar 1 18:21:01 2002 Subject: Can't do the math In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Here is a clearer rendition of what I meant. The original script seems to work correctly if the goal is to put the 3rd word in the field even though there would be 2 spaces (and therefore shouldn't have worked). It just didn't seem to do the math properly. Bill Vlahos On Friday, March 1, 2002, at 03:12 PM, Bill Vlahos wrote: > It doesn't work either. Strangely enough, if I do it the original way, > even lines that resulted in 2 spaces, if I put word 3 after the field > the correct numbers were put in. I'm still puzzled. > > Bill Vlahos > > > On Friday, March 1, 2002, at 02:27 PM, Yates, Glen wrote: > >> When parsing words, multiple spaces are ignored, so word 3 ends up >> being the >> first user in the group, not the group number you want to test >> against, so >> try this instead. >> >> set the itemDelimiter to ":" >> repeat with x = 1 to the number of lines in varAllGroups >> if item 3 of line x of varAllGroups > 100 then >> put first item of line x of varAllGroups & return after field >> "allgroups" >> end if >> end repeat >> >> -Glen Yates >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Bill Vlahos [mailto:bvlahos at jpl.nasa.gov] >> Sent: Friday, March 01, 2002 3:59 PM >> To: use-revolution at lists.runrev.com >> Subject: Can't do the math >> >> >> Using Rev 1.1.1B1 on Mac OS X the if statement below doesn't work >> correctly. >> Here is the variable varAllGroups: >> >> root::0:root >> other::1: >> bin::2:root,bin,daemon >> sys::3:root,bin,sys,adm >> >> Here is the script: >> >> replace ":" with space in varAllGroups --to make words for parsing >> repeat with x = 1 to the number of lines in varAllGroups >> if word 3 of line x of varAllGroups > 100 then >> put first word of line x of varAllGroups & return after field >> "allgroups" >> end if >> end repeat >> >> The if statement doesn't do the math correctly. The lines 1, 3, and 4 >> evaluate to true when they shouldn't. >> >> Bill Vlahos >> _______________________________________________ >> use-revolution mailing list >> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution > > _______________________________________________ > use-revolution mailing list > use-revolution at lists.runrev.com > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution From JAMES.G.YATES at saic.com Fri Mar 1 18:43:01 2002 From: JAMES.G.YATES at saic.com (Yates, Glen) Date: Fri Mar 1 18:43:01 2002 Subject: Can't do the math Message-ID: <33F0B58BF432D211B72200805FEFAAD905A5AA@hun-its-exs01.saic.com> Strange, I have tried this on 2 different systems and my way works fine. Incidentally, I am running MC and not Rev, but Rev uses the MC engine so it shouldn't make any difference. Specifically I've tried it on Solaris(Sparc) and Windows2000. -Glen Yates -----Original Message----- From: Bill Vlahos [mailto:bvlahos at jpl.nasa.gov] Sent: Friday, March 01, 2002 5:19 PM To: use-revolution at lists.runrev.com Subject: Re: Can't do the math Here is a clearer rendition of what I meant. The original script seems to work correctly if the goal is to put the 3rd word in the field even though there would be 2 spaces (and therefore shouldn't have worked). It just didn't seem to do the math properly. Bill Vlahos From terry at discovery.nl Sat Mar 2 05:46:01 2002 From: terry at discovery.nl (Terry Vogelaar) Date: Sat Mar 2 05:46:01 2002 Subject: OT -- Animation Programs In-Reply-To: Message-ID: FLASH! Definitely Flash. Flash is able to make animations, movies and interactive projects of any kind. It is mainly a vector-based program, but it handles pixel data as well. Terry http://www.discovery.nl > Van: Sivakatirswami > Beantwoord: use-revolution at lists.runrev.com > Datum: Thu, 28 Feb 2002 18:21:45 -1000 > Aan: Metacard List , > > Onderwerp: OT -- Animation Programs > > Forgive this off topic query, but I can't think > of a better group to give recommendations: > > If you had to purchase animation/cartooning software for your art > director/artists, (already fluent in Adobe PS and IL) > what would be your choice? End product would be anything from > simple animated GIF's to movie cartoons. > > (email me off list) > > Thanks > > Hinduism Today > > Sivakatirswami > Editor's Assistant/Production Manager > katir at hindu.org > www.HinduismToday.com, www.HimalayanAcademy.com, > www.Gurudeva.org, www.hindu.org > > Read The Master Course Lesson of the Day at > http://www.gurudeva.org/lesson.shtml From katir at hindu.org Sat Mar 2 14:52:01 2002 From: katir at hindu.org (Sivakatirswami) Date: Sat Mar 2 14:52:01 2002 Subject: OT -- Animation Programs In-Reply-To: <200203021707.MAA15249@www.runrev.com> Message-ID: > FLASH! Definitely Flash. Flash is able to make animations, movies and > interactive projects of any kind. It is mainly a vector-based program, but > it handles pixel data as well. Thanks for everyone's input... Scott Rossi wins the prize for recommending Toon Boom Studio which most precisely meets our artists needs... which is to get a "digital assistant" which is closer to the actual drawing/creation point in the cycle, for sophisticated, hand drawn characters whose facial expressions and arm, leg body position movements change frame to frame in "custom" ways... Flash et al are more at the "post" drawing cycle of the production loop of for those who want to use the artists drawing after they are done. Hinduism Today. Sivakatirswami Editor's Assistant/Production Manager katir at hindu.org www.HinduismToday.com, www.HimalayanAcademy.com, www.Gurudeva.org, www.hindu.org From prodevm at yahoo.com Sat Mar 2 19:31:00 2002 From: prodevm at yahoo.com (Steve L) Date: Sat Mar 2 19:31:00 2002 Subject: Time field (please help) Message-ID: <20020303002858.65036.qmail@web20305.mail.yahoo.com> Hello, I have a field that I would like to display the current/active "short system time". I can get it to put the "short system time" in the field on preCardOpen, via the set or put commands, however, it does not update to show the actual time (like a clock), the time that it puts in the field is static. How do you get the field to display live time? Thanks Steve L. __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Sports - sign up for Fantasy Baseball http://sports.yahoo.com From bvg at mac.com Sat Mar 2 19:55:01 2002 From: bvg at mac.com (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Bj=F6rnke_von_Gierke?=) Date: Sat Mar 2 19:55:01 2002 Subject: Mouse polling In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <01E15B1B-2E41-11D6-BAF8-003065AD94A4@mac.com> After reading the whole discussion on the "mouse" function twice, i still don't see exactly where the trouble comes from. Thus I wrote this long winded mail. Maybe im just too stupid (or my english isn't good enough) to understand where people have problems, but here is what I think the mouse SHOULD do: script: if the mouse is down result: true when the mousebutton is down when the script comes to the execution of the above line. this automatically leads to the following: script: repeat until the mouse is down beep end repeat result: This beeps repeatedly until the mouse is pressed while the script comes to the execution of the first line (because then: the mouse is down = true and the loop exists) Note: Don't try the script. Would beep really often and scare your cat away. Also interesting: If you put this in a mouseDown handler it will not beep (or only once? not sure here), as the mouse is already down (unless you are a really astounding fast clicker (professional quake gamer?)). I just don't understand how this can lead to any problem at all? A different mater is the following example: script: repeat while the mouse is down set the loc of field "grabMe" to the mouseLoc end repeat result: This will move the field around (kinda dragging) until you release the mousebutton. Maybe. As sometimes "the mouse" seems to "stick" to a certain state (good to know command-. in such cases!) Note that repeated clicking does not resolve the problem. Here seems to come something strange into the whole: Does the loop "forget" to check every round if the mouse is down? Does it repeat until it receives a mouseUp for speed purpose? Kind of cheating it would be, says Yoda. Or is it just underrun by the Quake-capabilities of the clicker? No one knows... Note: If the Loop would have more commands in it (slowing it considerably down) the cursor would naturally leave the field behind, if you want to have live dragging, use the grab function instead! Also if you release the mouse under such slow circumstances but click again before the loop checks the state of the "mouse" again it should still keep relocating the field. But it doesn't! I tested it with wait, and instead it sends you (once again) into endless dragging land. So to me there seems a merely technical problem in the implementation of the "mouse" function, a bug. But Scott says that "the mouse" merely does strange thing to my computer, and thus should not be used. This is the point where I always get lost :-( could someone (Scott) please explain to me (again) what the difference makes between the second and the last example and why that makes "the mouse" a not-so-well function, I mean it just checks a property! /Me doesn't get it... thank you Bj?rnke von Gierke From bvg at mac.com Sat Mar 2 20:15:00 2002 From: bvg at mac.com (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Bj=F6rnke_von_Gierke?=) Date: Sat Mar 2 20:15:00 2002 Subject: Time field (please help) In-Reply-To: <20020303002858.65036.qmail@web20305.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: On Sonntag, M?rz 3, 2002, at 01:28 , Steve L wrote: > ... > How do you get the field to display live time? > ... A command is always executed once. When you want to do things repeatedly you have to issue the command repeatedly too. You can achieve that by using a loop (see "repeat" in the documentation). But in your case that would not be the ideal solution, as a loop can block other things from happening (not so well documented, as far as I know) thus you should rather search for "send" in the docu. As you can issue future command with it! Here is a example (solving your problem) how I would make it: on preopenCard setTheTime end preopenCard on setTheTime put the short system time into field "myTimeField" send setTheTime to me in 1 second --note that you can also send things to any other object -- You are not restricted to "me": --send setTheDate to field "myDateField" in 1 second --naturally you have to have that Handler (setTheDate) in that field! end setTheTime hope this makes it clear to you Bj?rnke von Gierke PS: Try to read all the "About" topics in the documentation they helped me really often. From cowhead at ztv.ne.jp Sun Mar 3 06:15:01 2002 From: cowhead at ztv.ne.jp (cowhead) Date: Sun Mar 3 06:15:01 2002 Subject: can't do math Message-ID: <3C8205DB.FD7F1B85@ztv.ne.jp> Rev apparently evaluates any non-number as an infinitely high number? Anyway, your (Bill's) 'if' script is definitely evaluating a non-number. You can prove this by changing "if word 3 of line x of varAllGroups > 100 then" to "if word 3 of line x of varAllGroups is not a number then" good luck mark mitchell japan From Stgecft at aol.com Sun Mar 3 08:05:00 2002 From: Stgecft at aol.com (Stgecft at aol.com) Date: Sun Mar 3 08:05:00 2002 Subject: Time field (please help) Message-ID: <14a.9d0d389.29b378d5@aol.com> In a message dated 3/2/02 7:31:49 PM, prodevm at yahoo.com writes: << How do you get the field to display live time? >> Try using in the script of the field. Randy Kent From JohnRule at aol.com Sun Mar 3 10:03:01 2002 From: JohnRule at aol.com (JohnRule at aol.com) Date: Sun Mar 3 10:03:01 2002 Subject: Problems with patterns on Mac Message-ID: At 7:19 PM -0800 2/28/2002, JohnRule at aol.com wrote: >>If I then transfer this stack to a Macintosh, the buttons >>represent the pattern as if the pattern were the size of >>the stack (or screen). In other words, the pattern is >>reflected differently in every button on the Mac (the >>pattern is not redrawn at a 0,0, coordinate for each button). >Do you see this same result if you set the pattern property on the Mac (in >other words, not transferring the stack)? Or is it only when transferring >stacks that have had their pattern set on Windows? Revolution Rev 1.1.1 B1 Windows 98SE Mac OS 8.6, 9.1 Try this: Create a pattern on a Windows machine (mine are 80 x 80 cells created in PhotoImpact), or any image file that would fit in a typical button will do. Create a new main stack, and create three new buttons. Import the pattern/image into Revolution. Assign the 'image' as a pattern to the three buttons of the same size, stacked on top of one another. Move the buttons around the screen (in edit mode)...the patterns remain the same. Now save, and export to a Mac. (On the Mac) Problem number 1...the images are gone, you have to change the button type to 'Rectangle' or turn the border off for the pattern to show up. Problem number 2...on my computer, I can actually move the buttons around the screen (in edit mode) and the pattern will change...as if the pattern is drawn in the background, and I am just seeing a portion of the pattern. It doesn't do this on my PC. If I assign the pattern as an icon, it draws properly, but I lose the very important capability of having the button name appear in the middle of the button. Of course, I can import button images that have the text embedded into the image, but it increases my application by megabytes, and it is extremely tedious to maintain a database of on/off images for every single button (which could be thousands). >Do you see this same result if you set the pattern property on the Mac (in >other words, not transferring the stack)? It makes no difference if I create this from scratch on the Macintosh...it exhibits this behavior no matter what I do. Please see if you can fix this... Thank You, JR -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From terry at discovery.nl Sun Mar 3 10:47:01 2002 From: terry at discovery.nl (Terry Vogelaar) Date: Sun Mar 3 10:47:01 2002 Subject: Time field (please help) In-Reply-To: <14a.9d0d389.29b378d5@aol.com> Message-ID: >> How do you get the field to display live time? > > Try using in the script of the field. The use of 'on idle' should be avoided. Instead, write a handler in the script of the field that is called by an openCard handler: send updateTime to field "Now" and let the handler call itself in 1 second: on updateTime put the long time into me send updateTime to me in 1 second end updateTime From GSaylor at ATP.com Sun Mar 3 10:48:01 2002 From: GSaylor at ATP.com (Greg Saylor) Date: Sun Mar 3 10:48:01 2002 Subject: stack 0 (?) Message-ID: <751AC1038CDDD2118753080009FCD55501B26541@m1.atp.com> Hello, Ian and Sarah: Thank you for your earlier, you got me started in the right direction and I know have a much better understanding of Revolution (although I am sure i have only scratched the surface)... (I hope that isn't considered a non-plain text message.. ;-) ) I have a couple of observations and a couple of questions... To be efficient, I will just list them all here, I apologize ahead of time for the long message...... #1. I am using the Mac version of Revolution and it seems *extremely* unstable... I have at least one reproducable error, which goes something like this: (which , of coruse this will go away once I finish my evaluation and decide to purchase it) Step 1. Begin writing a script Step 2. Write enough code so you exceed the 10-line limit by only one line. Step 3. Try to save it Step 4. Comment out a line Step 5. Attempt to save and watch-it-crash There are many other times and ways it crashes, but I haven't been able to nail it down (yes I disable the sprocket extensions)... #2. I have a stack with a substack... And the substack needs to get access to the controls on it's parent stack.... I can do this if I specify the name of the stack (for example: answer the short name of stack "my stack"), but I can't seem to do it by stack number... (For example: answer the short name of stack 0)... Is there any way to unambiguously refer to the stack on which a substack belongs to?.. I even tried : answer the short name of word 5 of stack topStack but it failed on this, probably because of the quotes surrounding it I guess?... The bottom line is, is there some way to do this?... #3. When you are referring to a "font size" in Revolution are they in "pixels" or "points"?... Do they differ betwen OS's?... I have a specified amount of space on a page in which to place the information a user is entering (like a form, but different) and I want to make sure that when this app is moved to a different platform that the font sizes will fit..... Assume that it is a "courier new" font (monospace) for this one..... #4. What I have done is setup the "main stack" as a data-entry screen for the user and a substack which contains the printed page(s)... The reason I have done this, I guess, is because the data entry screen is not laid out the same as the printed screen.... Have I done this correctly or is my approach non-standard?... #5. Perhaps this question is more suited to a fontologist (is there such a thing?), but I'll post it here just in case anyone knows.... Because of the limited amount of space available to print information, I have to in some cases use some pretty small fonts, which print properly but on the screen are difficult to read.... Is it possible to simply increase the font size by a couple of sizes for the screen?.... At first, this might seem obvious (sure you can), but it's a bit more complex then that.... I actually allow the user to change the font size.. So imagine something like this: XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX <--- field 1 XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX <--- field 2 When the substack is opened I have a function which basically analyzes the controls on the top page and begins to populate itself with the information.... It has to be able to create the second field directly below the first one and the "field" which contains them needs to be sized correctly to contain the text.... So if I decrease the "font size" by two (points or pixels?), will decreasing the size of the field by two (pixels) allow the font to fit?... It seems like I also may need to adjust the "margin" field...... I have done some preliminary tests and come up with the following: (assuming a courier new font) HEIGHT OF BOX PRINT HEIGHT OF BOX FONT SIZE ON DISPLAY FONT SIZE ON PRINT -------------- ------------- --------- ------------- 10 14 9 10 12 18 ? ? 14 23 ? ? I guess what I am thinking about doing with this is to just allow them to select "Small/Medium/Large" for the font sizes, but what I am really wondering is there anyway to perform the font calculations within Revolution so that it would be more font and size independent (assuming that the font sizes are NOT in pixels, which would seem to be the case)?...... #6. When I am programmatically creating new fields on my "print form" to contain the text, do I have to remove them when I am finished or the next time the form is printed will the old fields still be there?..... #7. Originally what I wanted to do was set a TIFF image (converted to a PNG) as a background for the printed page... However, it seems like I can only use 72dpi images, which when printed look terrible.... As a test I tried to create a substack with a size of 2550 x 3300 (8.5 x 11 at 300dpi)... First of all, since there does not seem to be any "zoom out/zoom in" feature, the screen was so big it took a lot of effort just to move around to see it all (even at my monitors resolution of 1920 x 1080), perhaps a zoom in/out feature would be nice.. ;-) Secondly, I couldn't even get the image to load onto the page it kept crashing, even when I increased the memory of revolution to 768mb.... So next I tried the equivalent of a 150dpi image and it would do that without crashing and the printout was a LOT better, but still not good enough (I used the "into" clause of the print command)... Is there some other way to handle this which would give me the results I am looking for but in an efficient way?.... Thanks! - Greg -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From rcozens at pon.net Sun Mar 3 11:48:01 2002 From: rcozens at pon.net (Rob Cozens) Date: Sun Mar 3 11:48:01 2002 Subject: Time field (please help) In-Reply-To: References: <14a.9d0d389.29b378d5@aol.com> Message-ID: >>> How do you get the field to display live time? >> >> Try using in the script of the field. > >The use of 'on idle' should be avoided. Instead, write a handler in the >script of the field that is called by an openCard handler: > >send updateTime to field "Now" > >and let the handler call itself in 1 second: > >on updateTime > put the long time into me > send updateTime to me in 1 second >end updateTime Terry, Bj?rnke, et al: Question: What happens when the user goes to another card or another stack? Must one take some action on closeCard/closeStack to stop updateTime from continuing to send messages every second? I suppose so long as there is no updateTime handler in the current message hierarchy the last updateTime message will not be handled; however, in general I'm leary of starting continuous loops without scripting a means to stop the loop if desired or necessary. And, in truth, I don't know what RunRev does when instructed to send a message to a control that is no longer in the message hierarchy. Can someone reduce my fooleshness on this subject? Rob Cozens CCW, Serendipity Software Company "And I, which was two fooles, do so grow three; Who are a little wise, the best fooles bee." from "The Triple Foole" by John Donne (1572-1631) From rcozens at pon.net Sun Mar 3 12:00:02 2002 From: rcozens at pon.net (Rob Cozens) Date: Sun Mar 3 12:00:02 2002 Subject: Time field (please help) In-Reply-To: References: <14a.9d0d389.29b378d5@aol.com> Message-ID: >>>> How do you get the field to display live time? >>> >>> Try using in the script of the field. >> >>The use of 'on idle' should be avoided. Instead, write a handler in the >>script of the field that is called by an openCard handler: >> >>send updateTime to field "Now" >> >>and let the handler call itself in 1 second: >> >>on updateTime >> put the long time into me >> send updateTime to me in 1 second >>end updateTime > >Terry, Bj?rnke, et al: > >Question: What happens when the user goes to another card or another >stack? Must one take some action on closeCard/closeStack to stop >updateTime from continuing to send messages every second? I'd still like to hear what other have to say about this; but perhaps something like this is preferable: on updateTime if there is a field "Now" then put the long time into field "Now" send updateTime to field "Now" in 1 second end if end updateTime Any comments? Rob Cozens CCW, Serendipity Software Company "And I, which was two fooles, do so grow three; Who are a little wise, the best fooles bee." from "The Triple Foole" by John Donne (1572-1631) From raney at metacard.com Sun Mar 3 13:28:07 2002 From: raney at metacard.com (Scott Raney) Date: Sun Mar 3 13:28:07 2002 Subject: Mouse polling In-Reply-To: <200203031549.KAA32141@www.runrev.com> Message-ID: On Sun, 3 Mar 2002 =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Bj=F6rnke_von_Gierke?= wrote: (I added a CC to improve-resolution because part of the problem here is that parts of the discussion has appeared on several different mailing lists) > After reading the whole discussion on the "mouse" function twice, i > still don't see exactly where the trouble comes from. Thus I wrote this > long winded mail. Maybe im just too stupid (or my english isn't good > enough) to understand where people have problems, but here is what I > think the mouse SHOULD do: > > script: > if the mouse is down > > result: > true when the mousebutton is down when the script comes to the execution > of the above line. This is not the way HyperCard works, and there are significant, if esoteric, reasons why the HC way is right. Please reread the previous discusions to maybe understand why. > this automatically leads to the following: > > script: > repeat until the mouse is down > beep > end repeat Exactly, and this is exactly why the mouse function is so heinous ;-) (snip) > I just don't understand how this can lead to any problem at all? A > different mater is the following example: > > script: > repeat while the mouse is down > set the loc of field "grabMe" to the mouseLoc > end repeat This is really the core of the problem: this loop uses 100% of the CPU time, regardless of the speed of the processor, bringing the system to its knees, causing poor feedback for your app, and making your system unresponsive to any other processes running on it. You see, on a fast system, 99.99% of the time through that loop you're setting the loc to exactly the same coordinate! I think the biggest problem here is that OSs have evolved way beyond the point where even developers (or at least most of our customers) understand how they work. There's nothing wrong at all with things like "the mouse" on single-user single-tasking OSs like MacOS, but that's just not the world we live in anymore. I hate to be in the position to restrict access to important functionality to protect people from themselves, but as I said, it's become abundantly clear (except maybe to Curry ;-) that it's for good of the language, our customers, and users of products that our customers develop, to make doing things the wrong way harder. Believe me, I'm certainly sympathetic to the "easier way" and "programming for the rest of us" arguments, but none of us can afford to be classed as developers of system-hostile applications just because we happen to use a language that other people who don't know any better use to develop system-hostile applications. Developing in a high level language will become a stigma that we'll never live down if we don't nip this in the bud. Regards, Scott > thank you > Bj?rnke von Gierke ******************************************************** Scott Raney raney at metacard.com http://www.metacard.com MetaCard: You know, there's an easier way to do that... From terry at discovery.nl Sun Mar 3 14:23:01 2002 From: terry at discovery.nl (Terry Vogelaar) Date: Sun Mar 3 14:23:01 2002 Subject: Time field (please help) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: > Question: What happens when the user goes to another card or another > stack? Must one take some action on closeCard/closeStack to stop > updateTime from continuing to send messages every second? > > I suppose so long as there is no updateTime handler in the current message > hierarchy the last updateTime message will not be handled; however, in > general I'm leary of starting continuous loops without scripting a means to > stop the loop if desired or necessary. And, in truth, I don't know what > RunRev does when instructed to send a message to a control that is no > longer in the message hierarchy. > > Can someone reduce my fooleshness on this subject? I wondered about this myself too. I must admit I didn't try it yet. But this technique is the advised scripting technique to avoid 'on idle'. So if it would create an infinate loop, it wouldn't be 'better' then 'on idle', but worse. Terry http://www.discovery.nl From terry at discovery.nl Sun Mar 3 15:04:01 2002 From: terry at discovery.nl (Terry Vogelaar) Date: Sun Mar 3 15:04:01 2002 Subject: Plain text posts In-Reply-To: <751AC1038CDDD2118753080009FCD55501B26541@m1.atp.com> Message-ID: > > Ian and Sarah: Thank you for your earlier, you got me started in the right > direction and I know have a much better understanding of Revolution (although > I am sure i have only scratched the surface)... > > (I hope that isn't considered a non-plain text message.. ;-) ) Of course I get the joke, but the funny thing is that it was indeed a non-plain text message! What our wise mother Heather was talking about was HTML-encoded messages, which mess up the digests and the list-archives. It is kinda tricky because most e-mail clients make HTML-encoded messages by default. It is not only the use of fonts, sizes and styles that make a message HTML-encoded, but even the ABILITY to use them, indicates that the message is HTML-encoded. Terry http://www.discovery.nl From rcozens at pon.net Sun Mar 3 16:22:01 2002 From: rcozens at pon.net (Rob Cozens) Date: Sun Mar 3 16:22:01 2002 Subject: Time field (please help) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: >> Question: What happens when the user goes to another card or another >> stack? Must one take some action on closeCard/closeStack to stop >> updateTime from continuing to send messages every second? > >I wondered about this myself too. Looks like you & I will have to wait for the experts, Terry. In the meantime, the closest alternative I've found so far is flushEvents which, even though "semi selective" seems to me like using a shotgun because I don't have a laser targeting scope rifle. OTOH, if one's stacks put such repeating events in motion it may be preferred form to send flushEvents on closeStack. Rob Cozens CCW, Serendipity Software Company "And I, which was two fooles, do so grow three; Who are a little wise, the best fooles bee." from "The Triple Foole" by John Donne (1572-1631) From mazzapaolo at libero.it Sun Mar 3 16:35:00 2002 From: mazzapaolo at libero.it (paolo mazza) Date: Sun Mar 3 16:35:00 2002 Subject: MYSQL DATABASE MANAGER In-Reply-To: <200203021708.MAA15282@www.runrev.com> Message-ID: I established a connection to a MySQL database server with DATABASE MANAGER in Rev. I sent the "select * from MyTable;" command and it worked fine. However, when I send command "Show tables" I get an empty field. Why? What's wrong with the "Show tables" command? bye, Paolo (Italy) From gcanyon at inspiredlogic.com Sun Mar 3 17:18:01 2002 From: gcanyon at inspiredlogic.com (Geoff Canyon) Date: Sun Mar 3 17:18:01 2002 Subject: Time field (please help) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: At 1:19 PM -0800 3/3/02, Rob Cozens wrote: >>> Question: What happens when the user goes to another card or another >>> stack? Must one take some action on closeCard/closeStack to stop >>> updateTime from continuing to send messages every second? >> >>I wondered about this myself too. > >Looks like you & I will have to wait for the experts, Terry. Whenever you use send...in, the result is set to the message id. Sometimes people put that into a global. You could also use a property. The following allows cancelling the message with only the use of a local -- note that the local declaration outside any handlers makes it local through all the handlers, a neat trick: local tUpdateTimeMessage on updateTime put the long time into me send updateTime to me in 1 second put the result into tUpdateTimeMessage end updateTime on cancelUpdateTime cancel tUpdateTimeMessage end cancelUpdateTime regards, Geoff From sarahr at genesearch.com.au Sun Mar 3 17:35:01 2002 From: sarahr at genesearch.com.au (Sarah Reichelt) Date: Sun Mar 3 17:35:01 2002 Subject: Screenrect and geometry manager In-Reply-To: Message-ID: If you open the Card Porperties palette, then go to the Geometry Manager, you'll see the Geometry settigns for the card. One of them is "Update Geometry before displaying this card". If you check this, it should make each card resize it's objects before opening. Cheers, Sarah > Hello, > > I created a stack for childs. > I want that the window occupies all the screen. To work with all > resolution, i use the geometry manager. > > If i change the size of the stack, with the stack properties, its works, > but only for the current card. > > In the openstack script i put : > > set the rect of stack "theStack" to the screenrect > > but the size of objects does not adapt itself in a standalone. > > How tell to all cards of my stack to change their size ? > > Thanks, and sorry for my poor english. > _______________________________________________ > use-revolution mailing list > use-revolution at lists.runrev.com > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution > From bvg at mac.com Sun Mar 3 17:47:01 2002 From: bvg at mac.com (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Bj=F6rnke_von_Gierke?=) Date: Sun Mar 3 17:47:01 2002 Subject: Mouse polling In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <41CADDBC-2EF8-11D6-8D94-003065AD94A4@mac.com> On Sonntag, M?rz 3, 2002, at 07:25 , Scott Raney wrote: (snipedisnip) >> I just don't understand how this can lead to any problem at all? A >> different mater is the following example: >> >> script: >> repeat while the mouse is down >> set the loc of field "grabMe" to the mouseLoc >> end repeat > > This is really the core of the problem: this loop uses 100% of the CPU > time, regardless of the speed of the processor, bringing the system to > its knees, causing poor feedback for your app, and making your system > unresponsive to any other processes running on it. You see, on a fast > system, 99.99% of the time through that loop you're setting the loc to > exactly the same coordinate! Ok I got it kinda, thanks to the 99.99 % ... but why exactly does it bring the multiuser enviroment to its knees? I mean, the following doesn't do any harm (as far as I know): set the myOwnProperty of Stack "StackWithCustomProperties" to 0.001 repeat until the myOwnProperty of Stack "StackWithCustomProperties" > 0.234 add 0.001 to the myOwnProperty of Stack "StackWithCustomProperties" end repeat so why is "the mouse" a system hog, but any other property isn't? still confused Bj?rnke von Gierke From bvg at mac.com Sun Mar 3 17:56:01 2002 From: bvg at mac.com (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Bj=F6rnke_von_Gierke?=) Date: Sun Mar 3 17:56:01 2002 Subject: Stack opening problem Message-ID: <7FE4E492-2EF9-11D6-8D94-003065AD94A4@mac.com> I haven't looked all too detailed into it, but I can't be online during the week, so I ask this now nonetheless: When my stack opens, I want it to show more then one Window, and, I want also to do some stuff during the opening of my stack. To me it seems that the mainstack always gets opened, but nothing else. (Note also that my stack will soon become my application, so saving anything anywhere isn't an option) I did some tests with "on openStack" and "on openCard" but was unable to get any other window opened using those. I suspect there to be a hidden setting somewhere, but haven't found anything in the documentation, the properties of cards and stacks, or the application compiler assistent. Does anyone have experience with opening stacks during the opening of the application? hope others can use that info too Bj?rnke von Gierke From sarahr at genesearch.com.au Sun Mar 3 18:03:00 2002 From: sarahr at genesearch.com.au (Sarah Reichelt) Date: Sun Mar 3 18:03:00 2002 Subject: stack 0 (?) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: > #1. I am using the Mac version of Revolution and it seems *extremely* > unstable... Try using the latest beta - version 1.1.1B1. It seems much more stable than the release version. > > #2. I have a stack with a substack... And the substack needs to get access to > the controls on it's parent stack.... Use "the mainStack of this stack". This gives you the name of the parent stack. Note that if you build an application with the substacks as separate files, this will stop working and you will have to use the exact stack name. If the stacks become separate files then each of them is it's own mainStack. > > #3. When you are referring to a "font size" in Revolution are they in "pixels" > or "points"?... Points I guess, same as when you select a font size from a normal font menu in any application. > > #4. What I have done is setup the "main stack" as a data-entry screen for the > user and a substack which contains the printed page(s)... The reason I have > done this, I guess, is because the data entry screen is not laid out the same > as the printed screen.... Have I done this correctly or is my approach > non-standard?... This sounds like a good way to go. > > #5. Perhaps this question is more suited to a fontologist (is there such a > thing?), but I'll post it here just in case anyone knows.... Because of the > limited amount of space available to print information, I have to in some > cases use some pretty small fonts, which print properly but on the screen are > difficult to read.... Is it possible to simply increase the font size by a > couple of sizes for the screen?.... I'm no expert on this sort of stuff but perhaps a better approach might be to leave the screen display big enough to be legible, but shrink the printout. There was a thread on this list a while ago talking about such things and as far as I remember they came up with a script something like this: print this card into "0,0,600,800" Another idea to consider is using the formattedWidth, the formattedHeight & the formattedText to arrange your fields or text to fit. > > #6. When I am programmatically creating new fields on my "print form" to > contain the text, do I have to remove them when I am finished or the next time > the form is printed will the old fields still be there?..... If you save the stack, they'll be there next time. Otherwise they will be gone next time the stack is opened, but not between uses if the application is left open. Do you need to create new fields? Perhaps you could make them in advance but have them hidden. > > #7. Originally what I wanted to do was set a TIFF image (converted to a PNG) > as a background for the printed page... Can't help here but I am interested in any ideas that you get from other people. Cheers, Sarah From sarahr at genesearch.com.au Sun Mar 3 19:32:01 2002 From: sarahr at genesearch.com.au (Sarah Reichelt) Date: Sun Mar 3 19:32:01 2002 Subject: Stack opening problem In-Reply-To: Message-ID: When using the development environment, I've found that the openStack handler doesn't always run. If you are using the browse tool when the stack is opened, then it seems to be OK, but if you using the pointer tool, then openStack won't happen. It will work OK when you build your application, but while developing, you may need to work around it by typing "openStack" in the message box. I'm not sure about preOpenStack. Apart from that go to stack "Whatever" in a new window should work fine. Cheers, Sarah > I haven't looked all too detailed into it, but I can't be online during > the week, so I ask this now nonetheless: > > When my stack opens, I want it to show more then one Window, and, I want > also to do some stuff during the opening of my stack. > To me it seems that the mainstack always gets opened, but nothing else. > (Note also that my stack will soon become my application, so saving > anything anywhere isn't an option) > > I did some tests with "on openStack" and "on openCard" but was unable to > get any other window opened using those. > > I suspect there to be a hidden setting somewhere, but haven't found > anything in the documentation, the properties of cards and stacks, or > the application compiler assistent. > > Does anyone have experience with opening stacks during the opening of > the application? > > hope others can use that info too > Bj?rnke von Gierke From chambers at naa.att.ne.jp Sun Mar 3 22:05:01 2002 From: chambers at naa.att.ne.jp (Tim Chambers) Date: Sun Mar 3 22:05:01 2002 Subject: (no subject) Message-ID: <59F7F9C4-2F1C-11D6-A405-000A277C7800@naa.att.ne.jp> Does anyone know what to do after importing the control for a Quicktime movie? I have know idea what to do in the properties box or how to script it. Would it be easier to do animations in the Animation Manager? Tried that too, and couldn't make heads or tails of it. I'm running an iMac with OSX 1.2.3. Tim Chambers From troy at rpsystems.net Sun Mar 3 23:56:00 2002 From: troy at rpsystems.net (Troy Rollins) Date: Sun Mar 3 23:56:00 2002 Subject: (no subject) or what to do with QuickTime In-Reply-To: <59F7F9C4-2F1C-11D6-A405-000A277C7800@naa.att.ne.jp> Message-ID: On Sunday, March 3, 2002, at 10:03 PM, Tim Chambers wrote: > Does anyone know what to do after importing the control for a Quicktime > movie? Yes. > I have know idea what to do in the properties box or how to script it. Ah. > > Would it be easier to do animations in the Animation Manager? > Tried that too, and couldn't make heads or tails of it. > I'm running an iMac with OSX 1.2.3. The animation manager and the Quicktime controller are generally for different purposes. If you are attempting to play a Quicktime animation which already exists, the controller is the way you do that. Scripting it, happens in the script window. The animation manager is for... well, moving things around your cards in Revolution - you know, scrolling text over your graphics, sliding buttons on, and such. Perhaps you could indicate just what you are trying to accomplish? -- Troy RPSystems www.rpsystems.net From staypufd at gte.net Mon Mar 4 02:52:00 2002 From: staypufd at gte.net (Sam Griffith) Date: Mon Mar 4 02:52:00 2002 Subject: How to use tab UI widgets? Message-ID: Hello, I'm wondering how I use the tab widgets. I create the widget, then drag some UI elements on to page 1 and now want to go to page 2 and do the same. I've noticed that the widgets don't seem to be putting themselves on a tab pane. Please Help... Thanks, -- Sam Griffith Jr. email: staypufd at mac.com Web site: http://homepage.mac.com/staypufd/index.html From terry at discovery.nl Mon Mar 4 04:02:01 2002 From: terry at discovery.nl (Terry Vogelaar) Date: Mon Mar 4 04:02:01 2002 Subject: How to use tab UI widgets? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: > I'm wondering how I use the tab widgets. I create the widget, then drag > some UI elements on to page 1 and now want to go to page 2 and do the same. > > I've noticed that the widgets don't seem to be putting themselves on a tab > pane. A tab is actually just a button used as a menu. When you click on the rightmost tab of the properties palette, you can name the tabs. Then in the script of the button, you put a script like: on menuPick pWhich switch pWhich case "firsttab" hide group "secondstuff" show group "firststuff" break case "secondtab" hide group "firststuff" show group "secondstuff" break end switch end menuPick Terry From jeanne at runrev.com Mon Mar 4 04:56:01 2002 From: jeanne at runrev.com (Jeanne A. E. DeVoto) Date: Mon Mar 4 04:56:01 2002 Subject: How to use tab UI widgets? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: At 11:50 PM -0800 3/3/2002, Sam Griffith wrote: >I'm wondering how I use the tab widgets. I create the widget, then drag >some UI elements on to page 1 and now want to go to page 2 and do the same. The simplest way: 1. Drag your widgets for tab 1 onto the window and arrange them as desired, then group them. Name the group the same as the name of tab 1 (for example, if your tabs are "Foo", "Bar", and "Bas", name the first group "Foo"). Repeat for each tab: that is, create a group for each tab that contains the objects you want for the tab. 2. Put this handler into the tab button's script: on menuPick chosenTab,previousTab lock screen show group chosenTab hide group previousTab end menuPick -- Jeanne A. E. DeVoto ~ jeanne at runrev.com http://www.runrev.com/ Runtime Revolution Limited - Power to the Developer! From prodevm at yahoo.com Mon Mar 4 05:18:01 2002 From: prodevm at yahoo.com (Steve L) Date: Mon Mar 4 05:18:01 2002 Subject: time field (Please Help) Message-ID: <20020303001406.91934.qmail@web20302.mail.yahoo.com> Hello, I have a field that I would like to display the current/active "short system time". I can get it to put the "short system time" in the field on preCardOpen, via the set or put commands, however, it does not update to show the actual time (like a clock), the time that it puts in the field is static. How do you get it to display live time? Thanks Steve L. __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Sports - sign up for Fantasy Baseball http://sports.yahoo.com From kmajor at metascape.org Mon Mar 4 08:07:01 2002 From: kmajor at metascape.org (Klaus Major) Date: Mon Mar 4 08:07:01 2002 Subject: How to use tab UI widgets? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <4F9A446E-2F70-11D6-B069-003065D52E8E@metascape.org> Hi Terry and all, >> I'm wondering how I use the tab widgets. I create the widget, then >> drag >> some UI elements on to page 1 and now want to go to page 2 and do the >> same. >> >> I've noticed that the widgets don't seem to be putting themselves on a >> tab >> pane. > > A tab is actually just a button used as a menu. When you click on the > rightmost tab of the properties palette, you can name the tabs. Then in > the > script of the button, you put a script like: > > on menuPick pWhich > switch pWhich > case "firsttab" > hide group "secondstuff" > show group "firststuff" > break > case "secondtab" > hide group "firststuff" > show group "secondstuff" > break > end switch > end menuPick > > Terry it is even easier and shorter ;-) on menupick new_group, old_group hide grp old_group show grp new_group end menupick Take a (deeper ;-) look in the index on "menupick" Regards from germany Klaus Major kmajor at metascape.org From chambers at naa.att.ne.jp Mon Mar 4 08:37:00 2002 From: chambers at naa.att.ne.jp (Tim Chambers) Date: Mon Mar 4 08:37:00 2002 Subject: Quicktime versus Animation Manager (No subject) Message-ID: <97E13E8C-2F74-11D6-8850-000A277C7800@naa.att.ne.jp> Troy Thanks for your quick response. In answer to your question. I have some small animations for an english teaching program. A few GIFS of manipulated clip art and words broken into syllables with sound as they display on the screen. I'm a hobbyist working with an average household budget, so low cost solutions are imperative. Tim From alain.vezina at logilangue.com Mon Mar 4 09:48:01 2002 From: alain.vezina at logilangue.com (alain.vezina%logilangue.com) Date: Mon Mar 4 09:48:01 2002 Subject: HELP French accents Message-ID: <3C83B2CE.7583C666@logilangue.com> Is there a way to deal with accents on letters (I am a french speaking) when making a sort or when finding in a listField? Finding a french word with some letters having accent is not a problem when I use the messagebox. But it doesn't work when I use the find command in a handler. For example, I wrote a script to find some words in a field. If I am looking for "r?parateur" and word "rendez-vous" comes first in the list, I will find word "r?parateur" only when "r?p" ( the third letter) is typed. There are also problems when a sort is executed in a listfield. Alain Vezina From yvescoppe at skynet.be Mon Mar 4 10:47:01 2002 From: yvescoppe at skynet.be (yves COPPE) Date: Mon Mar 4 10:47:01 2002 Subject: HELP French accents In-Reply-To: <3C83B2CE.7583C666@logilangue.com> References: <3C83B2CE.7583C666@logilangue.com> Message-ID: >Is there a way to deal with accents on letters (I am a french speaking) >when making a sort or when finding in >a listField? > >Finding a french word with some letters having accent is not a problem >when I use the messagebox. But it doesn't >work when I use the find command in a handler. > >For example, I wrote a script to find some words in a field. If I am >looking for "r?parateur" and word "rendez-vous" > >comes first in the list, I will find word "r?parateur" only when "r?p" ( >the third letter) is typed. > > >There are also problems when a sort is executed in a listfield. > >Alain Vezina > Salut bonhome ! As-tu d?j? essay? les diff?rentes possibilit?s de "offset" (lineOfsset, itemoffset,?). J'utilise cette forme : c'est plus rapide et plus efficace Now for the others : I'd rather use the "offset" function : faster and more efficacious? -- Greetings. Yves COPPE Email : yvescoppe at skynet.be From tedl at voyager.net Mon Mar 4 11:20:00 2002 From: tedl at voyager.net (Ted) Date: Mon Mar 4 11:20:00 2002 Subject: Time Field (Please Help) Message-ID: <000b01c1c399$24b467e0$90755dd8@egl> > Question: What happens when the user goes to another card or another > stack? Must one take some action on closeCard/closeStack to stop > updateTime from continuing to send messages every second? >I wondered about this myself too. >Looks like you & I will have to wait for the experts, Terry. No need to wait. If you look up the *send* command in the Transcript Dictionary section of Revolution Help, you'll find the related topics listed under the "See Also" box. With the *cancel* command, you can cancel your send command(s) in a closecard script. Ted From troy at rpsystems.net Mon Mar 4 11:44:01 2002 From: troy at rpsystems.net (Troy Rollins) Date: Mon Mar 4 11:44:01 2002 Subject: Quicktime versus Animation Manager (No subject) In-Reply-To: <97E13E8C-2F74-11D6-8850-000A277C7800@naa.att.ne.jp> Message-ID: On Monday, March 4, 2002, at 08:34 AM, Tim Chambers wrote: > A few GIFS of manipulated clip art and words broken into syllables > with sound as they display on the screen. Sorry Tim, I'm still a bit confused as to where we are trying to help you go. You want to time gifs to audio? You have QuickTimes or the means to make them which already have the audio timed against the images? Taking a guess, it sounds as though you have a desire to time visuals to audio. I would recommend and external package to create QuickTimes (iMovie or QuickTime player pro will do this.) Then you bring your QuickTime into a QuickTime player control object - from there you can use script to display the player when you want, and trigger the play events when you want. Are we getting there? -- Troy RPSystems www.rpsystems.net From bvlahos at jpl.nasa.gov Mon Mar 4 12:10:00 2002 From: bvlahos at jpl.nasa.gov (Bill Vlahos) Date: Mon Mar 4 12:10:00 2002 Subject: Quicktime versus Animation Manager (No subject) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <6335651B-2F92-11D6-9097-003065E6E4BC@jpl.nasa.gov> I don't know how feasible this would be but you could make the "unbroken" art and words a button with the unbroken button icon and then change the hilited state to another graphic which could be a "broken" icon or even an animated gif. Bill On Monday, March 4, 2002, at 08:41 AM, Troy Rollins wrote: > > On Monday, March 4, 2002, at 08:34 AM, Tim Chambers wrote: > >> A few GIFS of manipulated clip art and words broken into syllables >> with sound as they display on the screen. > > Sorry Tim, I'm still a bit confused as to where we are trying to help > you go. You want to time gifs to audio? You have QuickTimes or the > means to make them which already have the audio timed against the > images? > > Taking a guess, it sounds as though you have a desire to time visuals > to audio. I would recommend and external package to create QuickTimes > (iMovie or QuickTime player pro will do this.) Then you bring your > QuickTime into a QuickTime player control object - from there you can > use script to display the player when you want, and trigger the play > events when you want. > > Are we getting there? > > -- > Troy > RPSystems > www.rpsystems.net > > _______________________________________________ > use-revolution mailing list > use-revolution at lists.runrev.com > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution From kevin at runrev.com Mon Mar 4 12:14:01 2002 From: kevin at runrev.com (Kevin Miller) Date: Mon Mar 4 12:14:01 2002 Subject: Patterns on Mac/PC In-Reply-To: <28.22cb5293.29b04d34@aol.com> Message-ID: On 1/3/02 3:19 am, JohnRule at aol.com wrote: > I am just curious about the difference between the way patterns are handled > between a PC and a Mac. For instance: > > I can import a pattern into my PC stack, assign this same pattern to several > buttons (stacked on top of each other) with the patterns starting at 0,0, > coordinates in each button (i.e. the pattern is redrawn for each button with > the upper left corner starting at the upper left corner of the button). > > If I then transfer this stack to a Macintosh, the buttons represent the > pattern as if the pattern were the size of the stack (or screen). In other > words, the pattern is reflected differently in every button on the Mac (the > pattern is not redrawn at a 0,0, coordinate for each button). > > I know patterns are 'natively' different on each platform, but this is odd > (and I would think this is wrong). > > Can anyone verify/explain this? From kevin at runrev.com Mon Mar 4 12:14:07 2002 From: kevin at runrev.com (Kevin Miller) Date: Mon Mar 4 12:14:07 2002 Subject: Crazy for cursors In-Reply-To: <0FEC47D8-2D3F-11D6-8D99-003065E6E4BC@jpl.nasa.gov> Message-ID: On 1/3/02 6:06 pm, Bill Vlahos wrote: > I have 1.1.1B1 installed on several development Macs (mostly OS X). When > I look at the Image Library on one of them I see a Custom Cursors > library. However, I only see it on one of the computers and not the > others and I can't tell where it comes from. > > 1. How do I get it to the other installations (I don't see a "cursors > file"? > > 2. How can I embed it into the stack? I can insert either the image or > button reference but there is no button for cursor. > > Going crazy, There are problems with using the cursors in the 1.1.1B1. Kevin Miller Runtime Revolution Limited - Power to the Developer! Tel: +44 (0) 870 747 1165. Fax: +44 (0)1639 830 707. From Stgecft at aol.com Mon Mar 4 12:27:01 2002 From: Stgecft at aol.com (Stgecft at aol.com) Date: Mon Mar 4 12:27:01 2002 Subject: scrolling Fields Message-ID: <137.a5bf995.29b507bf@aol.com> I'd like to scroll 3 fields side by side (the look of a table-3 columns). How do I get them to scroll together? Randy Kent From undo at cloud9.net Mon Mar 4 12:37:07 2002 From: undo at cloud9.net (andu) Date: Mon Mar 4 12:37:07 2002 Subject: metacard for CGI References: Message-ID: <3C83AEC7.D7D530E7@cloud9.net> I am putting together some documentation regarding the use of metatalk/rev for CGI scripts and I wanted to ask the list for some feedback: -how many of you are currently using metatalk/rev for CGI -the context(tasks performed) it is being used as well as the environment (production/tests/platform) -the approximate amount of traffic handled by the CGIs -your location (if this is sensitive in any way, please send it to me off the list, I only need this info for statistics) -if any of you are using other script languages for CGI (PHP, ASP, etc.) I'd appreciate some feedback as to how does metatalk/rev compare in terms of productivity/performance with the other language(s) -the main disadvantage you see in using metatalk/rev for CGI scripting *besides some difficulty with debugging* -- ____________________ Regards, Andu Novac From bvlahos at jpl.nasa.gov Mon Mar 4 12:40:01 2002 From: bvlahos at jpl.nasa.gov (Bill Vlahos) Date: Mon Mar 4 12:40:01 2002 Subject: Can't do the math In-Reply-To: <33F0B58BF432D211B72200805FEFAAD905A5A9@hun-its-exs01.saic.com> Message-ID: <80C741CA-2F96-11D6-9097-003065E6E4BC@jpl.nasa.gov> Thanks for the suggestions. This is, in fact, what worked. The field came up blank because there weren't any entries in the range (gotta check the data) and I had a typo. Thanks, Bill Vlahos On Friday, March 1, 2002, at 02:27 PM, Yates, Glen wrote: > When parsing words, multiple spaces are ignored, so word 3 ends up > being the > first user in the group, not the group number you want to test against, > so > try this instead. > > set the itemDelimiter to ":" > repeat with x = 1 to the number of lines in varAllGroups > if item 3 of line x of varAllGroups > 100 then > put first item of line x of varAllGroups & return after field > "allgroups" > end if > end repeat > > -Glen Yates > > -----Original Message----- > From: Bill Vlahos [mailto:bvlahos at jpl.nasa.gov] > Sent: Friday, March 01, 2002 3:59 PM > To: use-revolution at lists.runrev.com > Subject: Can't do the math > > > Using Rev 1.1.1B1 on Mac OS X the if statement below doesn't work > correctly. > Here is the variable varAllGroups: > > root::0:root > other::1: > bin::2:root,bin,daemon > sys::3:root,bin,sys,adm > > Here is the script: > > replace ":" with space in varAllGroups --to make words for parsing > repeat with x = 1 to the number of lines in varAllGroups > if word 3 of line x of varAllGroups > 100 then > put first word of line x of varAllGroups & return after field > "allgroups" > end if > end repeat > > The if statement doesn't do the math correctly. The lines 1, 3, and 4 > evaluate to true when they shouldn't. > > Bill Vlahos > _______________________________________________ > use-revolution mailing list > use-revolution at lists.runrev.com > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution From undo at cloud9.net Mon Mar 4 12:50:01 2002 From: undo at cloud9.net (andu) Date: Mon Mar 4 12:50:01 2002 Subject: metacard for CGI References: Message-ID: <3C83AEC7.D7D530E7@cloud9.net> I am putting together some documentation regarding the use of metatalk/rev for CGI scripts and I wanted to ask the list for some feedback: -how many of you are currently using metatalk/rev for CGI -the context(tasks performed) it is being used as well as the environment (production/tests/platform) -the approximate amount of traffic handled by the CGIs -your location (if this is sensitive in any way, please send it to me off the list, I only need this info for statistics) -if any of you are using other script languages for CGI (PHP, ASP, etc.) I'd appreciate some feedback as to how does metatalk/rev compare in terms of productivity/performance with the other language(s) -the main disadvantage you see in using metatalk/rev for CGI scripting *besides some difficulty with debugging* -- ____________________ Regards, Andu Novac _______________________________________________ metacard mailing list metacard at lists.runrev.com http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/metacard From David.Glasgow at cstone-tr.nwest.nhs.uk Mon Mar 4 13:14:00 2002 From: David.Glasgow at cstone-tr.nwest.nhs.uk (Glasgow, David) Date: Mon Mar 4 13:14:00 2002 Subject: Speaking text and highlighting speaking text Message-ID: <92C2FCA79EE22F4B98185EB58BF2D3B351B906@mercury.cstone-tr.nwest.nhs.uk> Dear all, two questions: 1/ I like to have my Mac read big blocks of statistical data (I have entered) back to me while I can scan the original to check for typos. This saves having someone else read the screen, while I look at the paper, and is incredibly efficient. I have never worked out to do this on my PC. I thought it might be fun to make a cross platform data entry checker, with a few bells and whistles that Appleworks can't provide. Of the many (mostly stupid) voices available, I like Victoria. Before I start on the data checker, is this hard to implement under Windows? Is there a WinVict dot something? My PCs have never uttered a word to me...... I can't seem to find references to synthesised speech, but do recall it being mentioned previously on this list (or maybe MC) 2/ In some ways related, perhaps. I have a psychological assessment that speaks the questions for people with a reading difficulty. It speaks once automatically, and any additional number of times at the users request. I highlight the whole sentence by colouring the text as the thing is read, and then it turns to black again. Now, how would I highlight *words* as they are being read. Like you get in Grandma and Me? I have assumed that chopping up the Aiffs into words would be a silly way to go. So perhaps I use QuickTime and colour/decolour words at particular points in the playback? I know I could just experiment, but I am confident that someone out there must have tackled this previously. BTW, great to see so many new users. Nice to know the answers to a few questions for a change, too ! Best wishes, David Glasgow From raney at metacard.com Mon Mar 4 13:17:01 2002 From: raney at metacard.com (Scott Raney) Date: Mon Mar 4 13:17:01 2002 Subject: Mouse polling In-Reply-To: <200203040903.EAA15165@www.runrev.com> Message-ID: On Sun, 3 Mar 2002 =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Bj=F6rnke_von_Gierke?= wrote: > >> I just don't understand how this can lead to any problem at all? A > >> different mater is the following example: > >> > >> script: > >> repeat while the mouse is down > >> set the loc of field "grabMe" to the mouseLoc > >> end repeat > > > > This is really the core of the problem: this loop uses 100% of the CPU > > time, regardless of the speed of the processor, bringing the system to > > its knees, causing poor feedback for your app, and making your system > > unresponsive to any other processes running on it. You see, on a fast > > system, 99.99% of the time through that loop you're setting the loc to > > exactly the same coordinate! > > Ok I got it kinda, thanks to the 99.99 % ... but why exactly does it > bring the multiuser enviroment to its knees? I mean, the following > doesn't do any harm (as far as I know): > > set the myOwnProperty of Stack "StackWithCustomProperties" to 0.001 > repeat until the myOwnProperty of Stack "StackWithCustomProperties" > > 0.234 > add 0.001 to the myOwnProperty of Stack "StackWithCustomProperties" > end repeat > > so why is "the mouse" a system hog, but any other property isn't? Because the second example is (presumably) actually doing some useful work whereas the former isn't. It will also complete at some point, whereas something like running the "xy" handler in HyperCard (which polls the mouseLoc in a repeat loop until a mouseClick), followed by the user answering the phone or going to lunch or leaving for the day won't. The syadmin then gets a report that one of the systems on the network is not responding to network requests, discovers a runaway process on that system, removes the offending program from the system and bans it, and possibly all MC/RR applications, from company computers. Then he or she posts an off-hand remark on some developer newsgroup about this terrible program and we *all* find ourselves in deep kim chee. Anybody who thinks there's a big distance between using "the programming tool for the rest of us" and "the programming tool that's only suitable for people who don't know what they're doing to develop toy applications " hasn't learned the one of the key lessons from the demise of HyperCard. Regards, Scott > still confused > Bj?rnke von Gierke ******************************************************** Scott Raney raney at metacard.com http://www.metacard.com MetaCard: You know, there's an easier way to do that... From JohnRule at aol.com Mon Mar 4 13:24:01 2002 From: JohnRule at aol.com (JohnRule at aol.com) Date: Mon Mar 4 13:24:01 2002 Subject: Problems with patterns Message-ID: <8b.14a985b0.29b514ed@aol.com> At 7:19 PM -0800 2/28/2002, JohnRule at aol.com wrote: >>If I then transfer this stack to a Macintosh, the buttons >>represent the pattern as if the pattern were the size of >>the stack (or screen). In other words, the pattern is >>reflected differently in every button on the Mac (the >>pattern is not redrawn at a 0,0, coordinate for each button). >Do you see this same result if you set the pattern property on the Mac (in >other words, not transferring the stack)? Or is it only when transferring >stacks that have had their pattern set on Windows? Revolution Rev 1.1.1 B1 Windows 98SE Mac OS 8.6, 9.1 Try this: Create a pattern on a Windows machine (mine are 80 x 80 cells created in PhotoImpact), or any image file that would fit in a typical button will do. Create a new main stack, and create three new buttons. Import the pattern/image into Revolution. Assign the 'image' as a pattern to the three buttons of the same size, stacked on top of one another. Move the buttons around the screen (in edit mode)...the patterns remain the same. Now save, and export to a Mac. (On the Mac) Problem number 1...the images are gone, you have to change the button type to 'Rectangle' or turn the border off for the pattern to show up. Problem number 2...on my computer, I can actually move the buttons around the screen (in edit mode) and the pattern will change...as if the pattern is drawn in the background, and I am just seeing a portion of the pattern. It doesn't do this on my PC. If I assign the pattern as an icon, it draws properly, but I lose the very important capability of having the button name appear in the middle of the button. Of course, I can import button images that have the text embedded into the image, but it increases my application by megabytes, and it is extremely tedious to maintain a database of on/off images for every single button (which could be thousands). >Do you see this same result if you set the pattern property on the Mac (in >other words, not transferring the stack)? It makes no difference if I create this from scratch on the Macintosh...it exhibits this behavior no matter what I do. Please see if you can fix this... Thank You, JR -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From k_major at osnabrueck.netsurf.de Mon Mar 4 13:43:01 2002 From: k_major at osnabrueck.netsurf.de (Klaus Major) Date: Mon Mar 4 13:43:01 2002 Subject: scrolling Fields In-Reply-To: <137.a5bf995.29b507bf@aol.com> Message-ID: <9B8890A6-2F9F-11D6-9207-000A27B49A96@osnabrueck.netsurf.de> Hi Randy, > I'd like to scroll 3 fields side by side (the look of a table-3 > columns). > How do I get them to scroll together? > > Randy Kent give the right field a scrollbar (not to the others) and this script: on scrollbardrag set the scroll of fld 1 to the scroll of me set the scroll of fld 2 to the scroll of me end scrollbardrag ...and pop goes the weasel... Have fun :-) Klaus From scott at tactilemedia.com Mon Mar 4 13:43:06 2002 From: scott at tactilemedia.com (Scott Rossi) Date: Mon Mar 4 13:43:06 2002 Subject: scrolling Fields In-Reply-To: <137.a5bf995.29b507bf@aol.com> Message-ID: <6A871D6A-2F9F-11D6-85A6-0003934902A2@tactilemedia.com> On Monday, March 4, 2002, at 09:24 AM, Stgecft at aol.com wrote: > I'd like to scroll 3 fields side by side (the look of a table-3 > columns). > How do I get them to scroll together? Group the fields and use a separate scrollbar object to scroll the group. Lock the group to keep its size from changing. Regards, Scott Rossi Creative Director, Tactile Media scott at tactilemedia.com http://www.tactilemedia.com From devin_asay at byu.edu Mon Mar 4 13:59:00 2002 From: devin_asay at byu.edu (Devin Asay) Date: Mon Mar 4 13:59:00 2002 Subject: Speaking text and highlighting speaking text In-Reply-To: <92C2FCA79EE22F4B98185EB58BF2D3B351B906@mercury.cstone-tr.nwest.nhs.uk> References: <92C2FCA79EE22F4B98185EB58BF2D3B351B906@mercury.cstone-tr.nwest.nhs.uk> Message-ID: At 6:07 PM +0000 3/4/02, Glasgow, David wrote: >Dear all, > >two questions: [snip] >2/ In some ways related, perhaps. I have a psychological assessment >that speaks the questions for people with a reading difficulty. It >speaks once automatically, and any additional number of times at the >users request. I highlight the whole sentence by colouring the text >as the thing is read, and then it turns to black again. Now, how >would I highlight *words* as they are being read. Like you get in >Grandma and Me? I have assumed that chopping up the Aiffs into >words would be a silly way to go. So perhaps I use QuickTime and >colour/decolour words at particular points in the playback? I know >I could just experiment, but I am confident that someone out there >must have tackled this previously. Probably the easiest way to do this is to make your words a QuickTime movie. I don't know of any reliable *and* easy way to do this in Revolution. In QuickTime you could add a Text Track to your AIF file and synchronize it that way. All you need is QuickTime Pro and some decent instructions. See for starters. If you really want to dig into it, get your hands on a book called QuickTime for the Web, published by Apple Computer. Devin -- Devin Asay Humanities Research Center Brigham Young University From benr_mc at cogapp.com Mon Mar 4 14:47:01 2002 From: benr_mc at cogapp.com (Ben Rubinstein) Date: Mon Mar 4 14:47:01 2002 Subject: Speaking text and highlighting speaking text In-Reply-To: <92C2FCA79EE22F4B98185EB58BF2D3B351B906@mercury.cstone-tr.nwest.nhs.uk> Message-ID: on 4/3/02 6:07 PM, Glasgow, David at David.Glasgow at cstone-tr.nwest.nhs.uk wrote: > 1/ I like to have my Mac read big blocks of statistical data [snip] is this > hard to implement under Windows? Is there a WinVict dot something? My PCs > have never uttered a word to me...... I can't seem to find references to > synthesised speech, but do recall it being mentioned previously on this list > (or maybe MC) I believe that there is an external, in the famous "externals collection" that was available on the original Revolution web page, that provided _cross-platform_ access to text-to-speech. But I've not used it. > 2/ In some ways related, perhaps. I have a psychological assessment that > speaks the questions for people with a reading difficulty. It speaks once > automatically, and any additional number of times at the users request. I > highlight the whole sentence by colouring the text as the thing is read, and > then it turns to black again. Now, how would I highlight *words* as they are > being read. Like you get in Grandma and Me? I have assumed that chopping up > the Aiffs into words would be a silly way to go. So perhaps I use QuickTime > and colour/decolour words at particular points in the playback? I know I > could just experiment, but I am confident that someone out there must have > tackled this previously. I'm not clear whether you intend this to work with text-to-speech, or with a pregenerated recording of someone actually reading the text. If the latter, while there are obviously many interesting options, one of the more obscure but potentially best (and arguably most fun) is that QuickTime has a little known 'karaoke' facility. This works cross-platform - essentially some additional data is encoded in the text track, which tells when to colour parts of each word. It was added five or six years ago when karaoke was popular in some quarters, and a defacto standard grew up for a ".kar" file format, for which lots of people produced players, and (the good bit) also a variety of Windows and Mac apps to assist in the production of these files. Since QuickTime gained the ability to import this format, these apps can be used to generate this data, which is by far the easiest way. I think it's designed to work with Midi, but I'm sure you could create a null Midi track, and actually sequence it with digitised audio. To see what it looks like, just search for "QuickTime Karaoke" in Google - you'll quickly come across loads of samples. Important disclaimer: I've never sung karaoke in my life. There are good historical reasons why I know this stuff. It's not my fault. Honest. Ben Rubinstein | Email: benr_mc at cogapp.com Cognitive Applications Ltd | Phone: +44 (0)1273-821600 http://www.cogapp.com | Fax : +44 (0)1273-728866 From undo at cloud9.net Mon Mar 4 14:53:01 2002 From: undo at cloud9.net (andu) Date: Mon Mar 4 14:53:01 2002 Subject: statistics References: Message-ID: <3C83CE86.87DCE38D@cloud9.net> Scott, can you give me a rough idea of Metacard/Rev user base? I may have to do some propaganda and I want to have some numbers at hand. -- ____________________ Regards, Andu Novac From mvivit at softcom.net Mon Mar 4 15:12:01 2002 From: mvivit at softcom.net (mvivit) Date: Mon Mar 4 15:12:01 2002 Subject: "group" text deprecation? Message-ID: <200203042010.g24KAD522415@sm0101.promedia.net> Good day... I'm still hedging on making the jump to 1.1.1b1 with a large project that makes extensive use of the "group" text property as well as associated commands and messages. I see in the release notes for 1.1.1b1 that these are being replaced with the "link" text style and related commands and messages. Will the "group" suite continue to be supported for backwards compatibility? Thanks! Mary Vivit mvivit at softcom.net From rcozens at pon.net Mon Mar 4 15:32:00 2002 From: rcozens at pon.net (Rob Cozens) Date: Mon Mar 4 15:32:00 2002 Subject: Time Field (Please Help) In-Reply-To: <000b01c1c399$24b467e0$90755dd8@egl> Message-ID: >With the *cancel* command, you can cancel your send command(s) in a closecard >script. Thanks Ted, I suspected Scott wouldn't leave me holding the shot gun (or vice grips) when I needed the laser-targeting scope rifle. However, the original script >on updateTime > put the long time into me > send updateTime to me in 1 second >end updateTime must then be modified along the lines of on updateTime global lastMessageId put the long time into me send updateTime to me in 1 second put the result into lastMessageId -- does the queue id get updated correctly here? end updateTime on closeStack global lastMessageId cancel lastMessageId end closeStack My questions, again, are: 1. Once the original handler runs once, will it continue to send an updateTime message every second until the RR engine quits regardless of what card or stack is in the current window? 2. Will my modified handler correctly capture the queue id of the last sent message? If not, how does one capture the result when one uses "send ....in..."? 3. Wouldn't the other script I posted >on updateTime > if there is a field "Now" then > put the long time into field "Now" > send updateTime to field "Now" in 1 second > end if >end updateTime Effectively stop any further updateTime messages from being sent once the user leaves the current card or stack? Rob Cozens CCW, Serendipity Software Company "And I, which was two fooles, do so grow three; Who are a little wise, the best fooles bee." from "The Triple Foole" by John Donne (1572-1631) From terry at discovery.nl Mon Mar 4 16:01:01 2002 From: terry at discovery.nl (Terry Vogelaar) Date: Mon Mar 4 16:01:01 2002 Subject: Speaking text and highlighting speaking text In-Reply-To: <92C2FCA79EE22F4B98185EB58BF2D3B351B906@mercury.cstone-tr.nwest.nhs.uk> Message-ID: > Before I start on the data checker, is this hard to implement under Windows? > Is there a WinVict dot something? My PCs have never uttered a word to > me...... I can't seem to find references to synthesised speech The Rolls Royce of synthetic speech is as far as I know RealSpeak. It is available in 19 languages. I don't have a clue how it is implemented by the system or what the price is, but it sure beats Victoria and those other Apple synth voices. Too bad it is only PC/Linux (no Mac). You can test it at http://www.lhsl.com/realspeak/demo/ Terry http://www.discovery.nl From yvescoppe at skynet.be Mon Mar 4 16:29:00 2002 From: yvescoppe at skynet.be (yves COPPE) Date: Mon Mar 4 16:29:00 2002 Subject: XMCD/XFCN Message-ID: Hello, I use a Mac, G3 with Revolution 1.1.1b System 9.1 I develop an app in Rev . On mainstack and differents substacks. I've pasted with Resedit one XFCN from Fred. Rinaldi. When I call this XFCN (from a script, in the runtime) I get intermittently a system error type 10. I used this same XFCN earlier in HC without any problem. I've allowed more memory to Rev, without any difference. 1? What's the meaning of this ? 2? Shall I meet the same after building the app ? 3? Any idea of what happens ? -- Greetings. Yves COPPE Email : yvescoppe at skynet.be From pixelbird at interisland.net Mon Mar 4 16:55:01 2002 From: pixelbird at interisland.net (Ken Norris (dialup)) Date: Mon Mar 4 16:55:01 2002 Subject: Constraining 'grab' In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Hello, With all the jabber about mouse functions, I'm almost afraid to ask this question: If it's unwise to use 'the mouse' repeats to do it, then...How do I constrain 'grab' to a rect (or any other) boundary? Know what I mean? I don't want the user to drag the object out of bounds. I looked through the docs and couldn't find an example. Best regards, ken N. From koenner at t-online.de Mon Mar 4 17:05:00 2002 From: koenner at t-online.de (Ralf K=?ISO-8859-1?B?9g==?=nner) Date: Mon Mar 4 17:05:00 2002 Subject: 3 megs of text Message-ID: Dear List, may be some of you might have the right solution for this task: I have about 3 MB of text data in one single logfile which I need to parse and do some maths for time and date manipulations with. I don't want to go through every single line of it - it simply would take far too much time. Each line has 3 items: gDate,gTime,"text_A" or "text_B" or "text_rubbish". 1.) I need to get rid of every line that contains "text_rubbish" (item 3). 2.) If "text_A" in line i is followed by "text_b" in line i+1 then add (gTime of line i+1) minus (gTime of line i) to spentTime and 3.) put gDate into dateList. A 480 KB file took my G3/233 about 18 minutes to do this by using "normal" repeat loops with 1 if-then-else statement inside. Any ideas to speed this up? Thank you very much for any help and best regards, Ralf From pixelbird at interisland.net Mon Mar 4 17:44:01 2002 From: pixelbird at interisland.net (Ken Norris (dialup)) Date: Mon Mar 4 17:44:01 2002 Subject: Speaking text and highlighting speaking text In-Reply-To: <92C2FCA79EE22F4B98185EB58BF2D3B351B906@mercury.cstone-tr.nwest.nhs.uk> Message-ID: on 3/4/02 10:07 AM, Glasgow, David at David.Glasgow at cstone-tr.nwest.nhs.uk wrote: s > this hard to implement under Windows? Is there a WinVict dot something? My > PCs have never uttered a word to me...... I can't seem to find references to > synthesised speech, but do recall it being mentioned previously on this list > (or maybe MC) > > 2/ In some ways related, perhaps. I have a psychological assessment that > speaks the questions for people with a reading difficulty. ---------- Precisely my problem, too. What we need is a reliable text-to-speech extension for PC's. A _major_ part of my current project is dependent on this feature. I will be watching this thread with intense interest, and contributing where I can. Try this site: < http://www.nextup.com > ...includes links to AT&T voices, etc. Also, Dragon Naturally Speaking software products is primarily known for speech recognition, but many of their products contain text-to-speech: < http://www.next-wave-solutions.com/dragvoicrecs.html > Best regards, Ken N. From drvaughan55 at mac.com Mon Mar 4 17:52:01 2002 From: drvaughan55 at mac.com (David Vaughan) Date: Mon Mar 4 17:52:01 2002 Subject: Time Field (Please Help) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <1E9815D6-2FC2-11D6-B58D-000393598038@mac.com> On Tuesday, March 5, 2002, at 07:29 , Rob Cozens wrote: snip > My questions, again, are: > > 1. Once the original handler runs once, will it continue to send an > updateTime message every second until the RR engine quits regardless of > what card or stack is in the current window? I have tested that it is sent to the correct object regardless of going to another card. I have not tested another stack but suspect it will. Must find out. > > 2. Will my modified handler correctly capture the queue id of the last > sent message? If not, how does one capture the result when one uses > "send > ....in..."? ...always has for me > > 3. Wouldn't the other script I posted > >> on updateTime >> if there is a field "Now" then >> put the long time into field "Now" >> send updateTime to field "Now" in 1 second >> end if >> end updateTime > > Effectively stop any further updateTime messages from being sent once > the > user leaves the current card or stack? Yes, with a minor editorial, to do with the words "to field "Now"" in the "send" line. Logically, if field "Now" is receiving the message then it must first exist, so the "if" test is superfluous. More likely, you are putting the handler in the card or stack script and the test is logical but "to field "Now"" is the wrong place to send it. Of course I assume this fragment was just a concept on your part rather than the golden fruit of your finest coding hour :-) and yes, the concept is fine. I was just caught by the semantics. cheers David > > Rob Cozens > CCW, Serendipity Software Company > > "And I, which was two fooles, do so grow three; > Who are a little wise, the best fooles bee." > > from "The Triple Foole" by John Donne (1572-1631) > _______________________________________________ > use-revolution mailing list > use-revolution at lists.runrev.com > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution > From drvaughan55 at mac.com Mon Mar 4 17:59:01 2002 From: drvaughan55 at mac.com (David Vaughan) Date: Mon Mar 4 17:59:01 2002 Subject: Constraining 'grab' In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <1391536C-2FC3-11D6-B58D-000393598038@mac.com> Ken See this stack from Scott Rossi for The Word on constrained dragging in canonical code: http://www.tactilemedia.com/download/drag_sample.mc He posted it a couple of weeks ago. cheers David On Tuesday, March 5, 2002, at 09:06 , Ken Norris (dialup) wrote: > Hello, > > With all the jabber about mouse functions, I'm almost afraid to ask this > question: > > If it's unwise to use 'the mouse' repeats to do it, then...How do I > constrain 'grab' to a rect (or any other) boundary? > > Know what I mean? I don't want the user to drag the object out of > bounds. I > looked through the docs and couldn't find an example. > > Best regards, > ken N. > > > > > _______________________________________________ > use-revolution mailing list > use-revolution at lists.runrev.com > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution > -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text/enriched Size: 949 bytes Desc: not available URL: From drvaughan55 at mac.com Mon Mar 4 18:02:01 2002 From: drvaughan55 at mac.com (David Vaughan) Date: Mon Mar 4 18:02:01 2002 Subject: Time Field (Please Help) In-Reply-To: <1E9815D6-2FC2-11D6-B58D-000393598038@mac.com> Message-ID: <8B770DCE-2FC3-11D6-B58D-000393598038@mac.com> On Tuesday, March 5, 2002, at 09:49 , David Vaughan wrote: > Yes, with a minor editorial,... Whoops! I got caught on semantics of my own. The if test should always be true once the message is sent to the correct object, regardless of being on another card. Looks like you need to send forever and cancel on exit. > > cheers > David >> >> Rob Cozens >> CCW, Serendipity Software Company >> >> "And I, which was two fooles, do so grow three; >> Who are a little wise, the best fooles bee." >> >> from "The Triple Foole" by John Donne (1572-1631) >> _______________________________________________ >> use-revolution mailing list >> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution >> > > _______________________________________________ > use-revolution mailing list > use-revolution at lists.runrev.com > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution > From pixelbird at interisland.net Mon Mar 4 18:14:01 2002 From: pixelbird at interisland.net (Ken Norris (dialup)) Date: Mon Mar 4 18:14:01 2002 Subject: 3 megs of text In-Reply-To: Message-ID: on 3/4/02 10:37 AM, Ralf K?nner at koenner at t-online.de wrote: > Any ideas to speed this up? ---------- lock screen -- Ken N. From drvaughan55 at mac.com Mon Mar 4 18:27:01 2002 From: drvaughan55 at mac.com (David Vaughan) Date: Mon Mar 4 18:27:01 2002 Subject: 3 megs of text In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Ralf It appears you are treating the lines in pairs and are using "repeat with i = 1 to zillions". This will be insufferably slow for large data volumes, as you have discovered. You can use the _vastly_ faster "repeat for each" using a switch to get line pairs before processing each pair. Try it on your 480KB file and you ought to be measuring time in tens of seconds rather than tens of minutes. If you are processing all pairs rather than consecutive pairs (that is, lines 1,2, then 2,3 rather than 1,2 then 3,4) then it is even easier as no switch is needed; just keep the last read line in a prevLine and move currentLine to it before the next loop. There is also a Filter command but it is inclusive rather than exclusive (i.e. I don't think you can say "all lines without text_rubbish") so let's see what this does first. regards David On Tuesday, March 5, 2002, at 05:37 , Ralf K?nner wrote: > Dear List, > > may be some of you might have the right solution for this task: > > I have about 3 MB of text data in one single logfile which I need to > parse > and do some maths for time and date manipulations with. I don't want to > go > through every single line of it - it simply would take far too much > time. > > Each line has 3 items: gDate,gTime,"text_A" or "text_B" or > "text_rubbish". > > 1.) I need to get rid of every line that contains "text_rubbish" (item > 3). > 2.) If "text_A" in line i is followed by "text_b" in line i+1 then add > (gTime of line i+1) minus (gTime of line i) to spentTime and 3.) put > gDate > into dateList. > > A 480 KB file took my G3/233 about 18 minutes to do this by using > "normal" > repeat loops with 1 if-then-else statement inside. > > Any ideas to speed this up? > > Thank you very much for any help and best regards, > > Ralf > > _______________________________________________ > use-revolution mailing list > use-revolution at lists.runrev.com > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution > From sarahr at genesearch.com.au Mon Mar 4 18:45:01 2002 From: sarahr at genesearch.com.au (Sarah Reichelt) Date: Mon Mar 4 18:45:01 2002 Subject: How to use tab UI widgets? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: If you look at the User Contributions section of the Rev web site, you'll find an example for using separate cards with tab controls. I find this much easier than hiding & showing groups as the layout & editing of each is separate and less confusing. Sarah > Hello, > > I'm wondering how I use the tab widgets. I create the widget, then drag > some UI elements on to page 1 and now want to go to page 2 and do the same. > > I've noticed that the widgets don't seem to be putting themselves on a tab > pane. > > Please Help... > > Thanks, > > -- > Sam Griffith Jr. > email: staypufd at mac.com > Web site: http://homepage.mac.com/staypufd/index.html > > > _______________________________________________ > use-revolution mailing list > use-revolution at lists.runrev.com > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution > From sarahr at genesearch.com.au Mon Mar 4 19:04:01 2002 From: sarahr at genesearch.com.au (Sarah Reichelt) Date: Mon Mar 4 19:04:01 2002 Subject: 3 megs of text In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Can you sort the list by date & time? If so, you could try this: put bigData into dataA filter dataA with "*text_A*" -- dataA only contains the lines with "text_A" put bigData into dataB filter dataB with "*text_B*" put dataA & cr & dataB into shortData sort lines of shortData dateTime by item 1 to 2 of each -- now you just have the text_A & text_B lines Then use David's suggestions for the main loop - use repeat for each line - store the previous line rather than re-finding it each time OR use lineOffset to find the next text_A line and check the one after for text_B repeat get lineOffset("text_A", shortData) if it = 0 or shortData is empty then -- you're finished -- do whatever you want with the info exit repeat -- don't forget this or you'll be stuck in the loop end if if line it+1 of shortData contains "text_B" then -- do your date & time stuff end if delete line 1 to it of shortData end repeat Note: the lineOffset approach might be fast enough even without the preliminary filtering. Hope this helps, Sarah > I have about 3 MB of text data in one single logfile which I need to parse > and do some maths for time and date manipulations with. I don't want to go > through every single line of it - it simply would take far too much time. > > Each line has 3 items: gDate,gTime,"text_A" or "text_B" or "text_rubbish". > > 1.) I need to get rid of every line that contains "text_rubbish" (item 3). > 2.) If "text_A" in line i is followed by "text_b" in line i+1 then add > (gTime of line i+1) minus (gTime of line i) to spentTime and 3.) put gDate > into dateList. > > A 480 KB file took my G3/233 about 18 minutes to do this by using "normal" > repeat loops with 1 if-then-else statement inside. > > Any ideas to speed this up? > > Thank you very much for any help and best regards, > > Ralf From pixelbird at interisland.net Mon Mar 4 20:03:01 2002 From: pixelbird at interisland.net (Ken Norris (dialup)) Date: Mon Mar 4 20:03:01 2002 Subject: Constraining 'grab' In-Reply-To: <1391536C-2FC3-11D6-B58D-000393598038@mac.com> Message-ID: on 3/4/02 2:56 PM, David Vaughan at drvaughan55 at mac.com wrote: > Ken > > See this stack from Scott Rossi for The Word on constrained dragging in > canonical code: > http://www.tactilemedia.com/download/drag_sample.mc > > He posted it a couple of weeks ago. ---------- Thanks. I'll have to play with the text of it, it wouldn't download. Nothing I have would recognize it. I tried to translate with StuffitDeluxe, but no go. Is it supposed to be a download stack? Ken N. From chambers at naa.att.ne.jp Mon Mar 4 20:07:01 2002 From: chambers at naa.att.ne.jp (Tim Chambers) Date: Mon Mar 4 20:07:01 2002 Subject: Quicktime vs Animation Message-ID: <003D996D-2FD5-11D6-BE6A-000A277C7800@naa.att.ne.jp> Troy Thanks again, you're way beyond my competence at this point. I'm totally new to Revolution, animation and programming. Hypercard I can do, and if I could import the color stacks I'd do it all in Hypercard and transfer it to Revolution. Will keep experimenting with getting the images the way I want them then I'll get back to you. It occurs to me that I could do the imagery and sound in Hypercard, make the Quicktime movies from there then import the movies to Revolution. But with the images being in PICT format, I wonder what they would look like on the Net. Tim From rcozens at pon.net Mon Mar 4 20:27:01 2002 From: rcozens at pon.net (Rob Cozens) Date: Mon Mar 4 20:27:01 2002 Subject: Time Field (Please Help) In-Reply-To: References: <000b01c1c399$24b467e0$90755dd8@egl> Message-ID: >My questions, again, are: BTW, I know I could figure this out with a little testing; but at the present it's someone else's problem so lazy moi just asks... Rob Cozens CCW, Serendipity Software Company "And I, which was two fooles, do so grow three; Who are a little wise, the best fooles bee." from "The Triple Foole" by John Donne (1572-1631) From dan at clearvisiontech.com Mon Mar 4 20:31:01 2002 From: dan at clearvisiontech.com (Dan Friedman) Date: Mon Mar 4 20:31:01 2002 Subject: Debugging on MacOS 7.5 Message-ID: Greetings, I am having reports of my REV application crashing on startUp on MacOS 7.5. So, I installed 7.5 on an old Mac I have lying around and attempted to install Revolution on it to debug. Apparently, (according to the ReadMe) REV wants to make an entry in the File Exchange Control Panel... But File Exchange is NOT installed with 7.5. When I run Rev, first I get "File File Exchange Not found", then an Error 1. Anyone got any ideas?? Any leads would be helpful! DF From jeanne at runrev.com Mon Mar 4 20:34:01 2002 From: jeanne at runrev.com (Jeanne A. E. DeVoto) Date: Mon Mar 4 20:34:01 2002 Subject: "group" text deprecation? In-Reply-To: <200203042010.g24KAD522415@sm0101.promedia.net> Message-ID: At 12:10 PM -0800 3/4/2002, mvivit wrote: >I'm still hedging on making the jump to 1.1.1b1 with a large project that >makes extensive use of the "group" text property as well as associated >commands and messages. I see in the release notes for 1.1.1b1 that these >are being replaced with the "link" text style and related commands and >messages. Will the "group" suite continue to be supported for backwards >compatibility? Thanks! Text that is grouped is automatically converted to linked style (that is, if you query the textStyle of a grouped character, it will return "link"). So you may have to change your scripts if they check the textStyle of clicked text. If you want to avoid the special appearance of links (blue and underlined), you will also need to set the linkColor and related properties for your stacks. Other than that, your stacks should keep working as they do now. "Group" is a synonym for "link"; "showGroups" is a synonym for "underlineLinks". I can't say whether these synonyms will be supported forever, but they will be there in 1.1.1 and I don't know of any plans to remove them. -- Jeanne A. E. DeVoto ~ jeanne at runrev.com http://www.runrev.com/ Runtime Revolution Limited - Power to the Developer! From jeanne at runrev.com Mon Mar 4 20:34:05 2002 From: jeanne at runrev.com (Jeanne A. E. DeVoto) Date: Mon Mar 4 20:34:05 2002 Subject: 3 megs of text In-Reply-To: Message-ID: At 10:37 AM -0800 3/4/2002, Ralf K?nner wrote: >Each line has 3 items: gDate,gTime,"text_A" or "text_B" or "text_rubbish". > >1.) I need to get rid of every line that contains "text_rubbish" (item 3). >2.) If "text_A" in line i is followed by "text_b" in line i+1 then add >(gTime of line i+1) minus (gTime of line i) to spentTime and 3.) put gDate >into dateList. > >A 480 KB file took my G3/233 about 18 minutes to do this by using "normal" >repeat loops with 1 if-then-else statement inside. Can you post the handler here? I can think of a number of possibilities for speeding things up, but they may be things you've done already. -- Jeanne A. E. DeVoto ~ jeanne at runrev.com http://www.runrev.com/ Runtime Revolution Limited - Power to the Developer! From jeanne at runrev.com Mon Mar 4 20:34:08 2002 From: jeanne at runrev.com (Jeanne A. E. DeVoto) Date: Mon Mar 4 20:34:08 2002 Subject: XMCD/XFCN In-Reply-To: Message-ID: At 1:23 PM -0800 3/4/2002, yves COPPE wrote: >I develop an app in Rev . On mainstack and differents substacks. >I've pasted with Resedit one XFCN from Fred. Rinaldi. > >When I call this XFCN (from a script, in the runtime) I get >intermittently a system error type 10. >I used this same XFCN earlier in HC without any problem. >I've allowed more memory to Rev, without any difference. I'm not sure why this is happening but have you queried Rinaldi? He might have an insight. -- Jeanne A. E. DeVoto ~ jeanne at runrev.com http://www.runrev.com/ Runtime Revolution Limited - Power to the Developer! From scott at tactilemedia.com Mon Mar 4 20:53:01 2002 From: scott at tactilemedia.com (Scott Rossi) Date: Mon Mar 4 20:53:01 2002 Subject: Debugging on MacOS 7.5 In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Recently, Dan Friedman wrote: > I am having reports of my REV application crashing on startUp on MacOS 7.5. > So, I installed 7.5 on an old Mac I have lying around and attempted to > install Revolution on it to debug. If you can determine this, check the underlying version of MetaCard. MetaCard 2.3 and earlier should run on MacOS 7.6 and earlier, but the latest versions of MC won't work. Regards, Scott Rossi Creative Director Tactile Media, Multimedia & Design Email: scott at tactilemedia.com Web: www.tactilemedia.com From scott at tactilemedia.com Mon Mar 4 20:57:01 2002 From: scott at tactilemedia.com (Scott Rossi) Date: Mon Mar 4 20:57:01 2002 Subject: Constraining 'grab' In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Recently, Ken Norris (dialup) wrote: >> http://www.tactilemedia.com/download/drag_sample.mc >> >> He posted it a couple of weeks ago. > ---------- > Thanks. I'll have to play with the text of it, it wouldn't download. Nothing > I have would recognize it. > > I tried to translate with StuffitDeluxe, but no go. Is it supposed to be a > download stack? Since you appear to be on a Mac, just go to http://www.tactilemedia.com/download/ control click on the drag_sample link and choose "Download Link to Disk" or equivalent. Regards, Scott Rossi Creative Director Tactile Media, Multimedia & Design Email: scott at tactilemedia.com Web: www.tactilemedia.com From gcanyon at inspiredlogic.com Mon Mar 4 21:11:01 2002 From: gcanyon at inspiredlogic.com (Geoff Canyon) Date: Mon Mar 4 21:11:01 2002 Subject: 3 megs of text In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: At 10:24 AM +1100 3/5/02, David Vaughan wrote: >You can use the _vastly_ faster "repeat for each" using a switch to get line pairs before processing each pair. Try it on your 480KB file and you ought to be measuring time in tens of seconds rather than tens of minutes. David's words bear repeating -- in fact, I'm repeating myself right now :-) _Every_ loop that parses text should use "repeat for each." The speed increase will amaze you. If you also need to keep track of the line|word|item number, set a variable to 0 before the loop and add 1 to it each time through. regards, Geoff From gcanyon at inspiredlogic.com Mon Mar 4 21:26:01 2002 From: gcanyon at inspiredlogic.com (Geoff Canyon) Date: Mon Mar 4 21:26:01 2002 Subject: Constraining 'grab' In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: At 2:06 PM -0800 3/4/02, Ken Norris (dialup) wrote: >If it's unwise to use 'the mouse' repeats to do it, then...How do I >constrain 'grab' to a rect (or any other) boundary? > >Know what I mean? I don't want the user to drag the object out of bounds. I >looked through the docs and couldn't find an example. local tDragging on mouseDown put true into tDragging end mouseDown on mouseMove mouseX,mouseY if tDragging then -- Do bounds checking here -- set the loc of me to (mouseX,mouseY) end if end mouseMove on mouseUp stopDragging end mouseUp on mouseRelease stopDragging end mouseRelease on stopDragging put false into tDragging end stopDragging Note that you will likely want to get the offset of the mouse from the loc of the object in the mouseDown in order to maintain that offset while dragging. Otherwise the object will snap to the mouseLoc at mouseDown. regards, Geoff From drvaughan55 at mac.com Mon Mar 4 21:27:01 2002 From: drvaughan55 at mac.com (David Vaughan) Date: Mon Mar 4 21:27:01 2002 Subject: Constraining 'grab' In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <3E821444-2FE0-11D6-B58D-000393598038@mac.com> On Tuesday, March 5, 2002, at 12:14 , Ken Norris (dialup) wrote: > on 3/4/02 2:56 PM, David Vaughan at drvaughan55 at mac.com wrote: > >> Ken >> >> See this stack from Scott Rossi for The Word on constrained dragging in >> canonical code: >> http://www.tactilemedia.com/download/drag_sample.mc >> >> He posted it a couple of weeks ago. > ---------- > Thanks. I'll have to play with the text of it, it wouldn't download. > Nothing > I have would recognize it. > > I tried to translate with StuffitDeluxe, but no go. Is it supposed to > be a > download stack? Ken It's a metacard stack, but same thing. Change the extension to ".rev" rather than ".mc" after downloading then ask Rev to open it. It is quite small, and should download easily. I have e-mailed my copy directly to you as well. cheers David > > Ken N. > > _______________________________________________ > use-revolution mailing list > use-revolution at lists.runrev.com > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution > From gcanyon at inspiredlogic.com Mon Mar 4 21:30:00 2002 From: gcanyon at inspiredlogic.com (Geoff Canyon) Date: Mon Mar 4 21:30:00 2002 Subject: Constraining 'grab' In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: At 5:14 PM -0800 3/4/02, Ken Norris (dialup) wrote: >on 3/4/02 2:56 PM, David Vaughan at drvaughan55 at mac.com wrote: > >> Ken >> >> See this stack from Scott Rossi for The Word on constrained dragging in >> canonical code: >> http://www.tactilemedia.com/download/drag_sample.mc >> >> He posted it a couple of weeks ago. >---------- >Thanks. I'll have to play with the text of it, it wouldn't download. Nothing >I have would recognize it. > >I tried to translate with StuffitDeluxe, but no go. Is it supposed to be a >download stack? Try option-clicking on it, to download it in binary. Then you should be able to open it from within Revolution. regards, Geoff From jacque at hyperactivesw.com Mon Mar 4 21:57:01 2002 From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (Jacqueline Landman Gay) Date: Mon Mar 4 21:57:01 2002 Subject: Time Field (Please Help) In-Reply-To: <200203042347.SAA03767@www.runrev.com> Message-ID: <6DF38C07-2FE4-11D6-BF19-003065D2A46A@hyperactivesw.com> On Monday, March 4, 2002, at 05:47 PM, Rob Cozens wrote: > Once the original handler runs once, will it continue to send an > updateTime message every second until the RR engine quits regardless of > what card or stack is in the current window? It will continue to send as long as "updateTime" continues to run without an error. A script only needs to trigger it once from somewhere (probably opencard) to get the loop going, and at any given time there will only be one outstanding message. Once another handler cancels the outstanding message, everything stops. I'd probably do it something like this in a card or stack script: on openCard send "updateTime" to me -- this gets the messages started end openCard on updateTime put the long time into fld "now" -- next line keeps the loop going; there is never -- move than one message in the queue at a time -- because the one that activated this handler is -- used up now, and the only other one is the one -- we are about to send next: send "updateTime" to me in 1 second end updateTime on closeCard -- this stops the messages repeat for each line L in the pendingMessages if L contains "updateTime" then cancel (item 1 of L) end repeat end closeCard I like the repeat loop scan instead of tracking the id in a global. The scan is very fast, and it's one less global to worry about. If the script doesn't cancel the pending messages, then yes, the messages will keep going until the app quits or there is an error. In this case, if a user moves to another card without a field named "now", there would probably be an error when the updateTime handler tries to access a field that no longer exists on the card. The error would occur before the next "updateTime" message gets sent, effectively stopping the loop. -- Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com From drvaughan55 at mac.com Mon Mar 4 22:35:02 2002 From: drvaughan55 at mac.com (David Vaughan) Date: Mon Mar 4 22:35:02 2002 Subject: Time Field (Please Help) In-Reply-To: <6DF38C07-2FE4-11D6-BF19-003065D2A46A@hyperactivesw.com> Message-ID: On Tuesday, March 5, 2002, at 01:55 , Jacqueline Landman Gay wrote: > > ... if a user moves to another card without a field named "now", there > would probably be an error when the updateTime handler tries to access > a field that no longer exists on the card.... Jacqueline Clarifying your "...probably be an error...", let's say the object containing the handler is on card 1 as is the field "now" to update. If you are on card 2 the message is still sent correctly to the object on card 1 but will break with an error because the field to update is not on card 2. Testing " if there is a field "now"... " solves this error problem and keeps the cycle running, although no update will occur until you return to card 1. regards David > > -- > Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com > HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com > > _______________________________________________ > use-revolution mailing list > use-revolution at lists.runrev.com > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution > From dan at clearvisiontech.com Mon Mar 4 22:51:01 2002 From: dan at clearvisiontech.com (Dan Friedman) Date: Mon Mar 4 22:51:01 2002 Subject: Debugging on MacOS 7.5 Message-ID: Scott, I'm not sure how to check the "underlying version of MetaCard". I'm Using Revolution 1.1, if that helps? >> I am having reports of my REV application crashing on startUp on MacOS 7.5. >> So, I installed 7.5 on an old Mac I have lying around and attempted to >> install Revolution on it to debug. > > If you can determine this, check the underlying version of MetaCard. > MetaCard 2.3 and earlier should run on MacOS 7.6 and earlier, but the latest > versions of MC won't work. > > Regards, > > Scott Rossi > Creative Director > > Tactile Media, Multimedia & Design > Email: scott at tactilemedia.com > Web: www.tactilemedia.com From raney at metacard.com Mon Mar 4 23:11:01 2002 From: raney at metacard.com (Scott Raney) Date: Mon Mar 4 23:11:01 2002 Subject: Debugging on MacOS 7.5 In-Reply-To: <200203050336.WAA10505@www.runrev.com> Message-ID: On Mon, 04 Mar 2002 Scott Rossi wrote: > > Recently, Dan Friedman wrote: > > > I am having reports of my REV application crashing on startUp on MacOS 7.5. > > So, I installed 7.5 on an old Mac I have lying around and attempted to > > install Revolution on it to debug. > > If you can determine this, check the underlying version of MetaCard. > MetaCard 2.3 and earlier should run on MacOS 7.6 and earlier, but the latest > versions of MC won't work. Actually the latest ones do again (2.4, the first version with Carbon support, made Appearance Manager calls that aren't in 7.x that caused crashes). And as I recall you could always run the 68K engine on 7.X. You probably won't be able to install or run RR there, though, just MetaCard and/or your standalone application. Regards, Scott > Regards, > > Scott Rossi > Creative Director > > Tactile Media, Multimedia & Design > Email: scott at tactilemedia.com > Web: www.tactilemedia.com ******************************************************** Scott Raney raney at metacard.com http://www.metacard.com MetaCard: You know, there's an easier way to do that... From niklas_almesjo at yahoo.com Tue Mar 5 05:04:01 2002 From: niklas_almesjo at yahoo.com (Niklas Almesjö) Date: Tue Mar 5 05:04:01 2002 Subject: new version/beta? In-Reply-To: <200203041900.OAA28678@www.runrev.com> Message-ID: <20020305100205.24006.qmail@web12301.mail.yahoo.com> Hello, As a developer I know deadlines for software is a contradiction in itself. But I am in need of the new functions and it's been a while since the expected date of the new release, no? So I add my vote to release another beta instead of waiting longer for a finished version.. What say you? cheers, /Niklas __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Try FREE Yahoo! Mail - the world's greatest free email! http://mail.yahoo.com/ From Stgecft at aol.com Tue Mar 5 07:28:00 2002 From: Stgecft at aol.com (Stgecft at aol.com) Date: Tue Mar 5 07:28:00 2002 Subject: Debugging on MacOS 7.5 Message-ID: <49.1979278c.29b6134e@aol.com> Don't you think going back to 7.5 is a little to far back? Can't the people that are still using 7.5 upgrade for free? From webmaster at studioalice.se Tue Mar 5 07:32:01 2002 From: webmaster at studioalice.se (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Magnus_von_Br=F6msen?=) Date: Tue Mar 5 07:32:01 2002 Subject: new version/beta? In-Reply-To: <20020305100205.24006.qmail@web12301.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <751F4350-3022-11D6-8704-003065CCBD1A@studioalice.se> On tisdag, mars 5, 2002, at 11:02 , Niklas Almesj? wrote: > Hello, > As a developer I know deadlines for software is a contradiction in > itself. > But I am in need of the new functions and it's been a while since the > expected date of the new release, no? So I add my vote to release > another > beta instead of waiting longer for a finished version.. > What say you? > I say yes to that. /magnus From ludovic.thebault at laposte.net Tue Mar 5 10:50:01 2002 From: ludovic.thebault at laposte.net (Ludovic =?iso-8859-1?Q?Th=E9bault?=) Date: Tue Mar 5 10:50:01 2002 Subject: Screenrect and geometry manager and preOpenStack References: Message-ID: <3C84E880.8AE57E2F@laposte.net> Stgecft at aol.com wrote: > > << set the rect of stack "theStack" to the screenrect >> > > Make sure you are saving the stack or it will go back to it's previous state. > Actually, the "resizing" works in the environment of Revolution but not in the standalone. Just create a simple stack, with one button (to quit) and set the geometry manager to scale this button, write this preOpenStack script : << set the rect of stack "theStack" to the screenrect >> and nothing change in the standalone From tedl at voyager.net Tue Mar 5 11:43:01 2002 From: tedl at voyager.net (Ted) Date: Tue Mar 5 11:43:01 2002 Subject: Debugging on MacOS 7.5 Message-ID: <001b01c1c465$8f421c20$8d755dd8@egl> Dan Friedman wrote to the Use list: >I am having reports of my REV application crashing on startUp on MacOS 7.5. What version of Rev did you distribute your application on? Ted From Marian.Petrides at sm11.texas.rr.com Tue Mar 5 11:46:01 2002 From: Marian.Petrides at sm11.texas.rr.com (Marian.Petrides at sm11.texas.rr.com) Date: Tue Mar 5 11:46:01 2002 Subject: new version/beta? In-Reply-To: <20020305100205.24006.qmail@web12301.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1914B530-303F-11D6-8485-000A27D91A2A@earthlink.net> Frankly, I'd prefer they focus on getting a bug-free, stable version first before they add any new features--which will only compound the difficulty in squashing bugs. Just my opinion. Marian On Tuesday, March 5, 2002, at 04:02 AM, Niklas Almesj? wrote: > Hello, > As a developer I know deadlines for software is a contradiction in > itself. > But I am in need of the new functions and it's been a while since the > expected date of the new release, no? So I add my vote to release > another > beta instead of waiting longer for a finished version.. > What say you? > > cheers, > /Niklas > > __________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Try FREE Yahoo! Mail - the world's greatest free email! > http://mail.yahoo.com/ > _______________________________________________ > use-revolution mailing list > use-revolution at lists.runrev.com > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution > > Marian Petrides, M.D. mpetrides at earthlink.net mpetrides at pathology.umsmed.edu From dan at gui.com Tue Mar 5 11:46:04 2002 From: dan at gui.com (Dan Shafer) Date: Tue Mar 5 11:46:04 2002 Subject: Simulating a Grid Message-ID: Is there any way in Revolution to create a table or grid object? Or are we still stuck with the old HyperCard "trick" of having to keep multiple adjoining scroling fields in synch and storing data elements separately? -- Dan Shafer, Personal Creativity Trainer and Consultant Trained Hartman Value Profile Analyst http://www.danshafer.com/valueprofile.html From dan at danshafer.com Tue Mar 5 11:47:01 2002 From: dan at danshafer.com (Dan Shafer) Date: Tue Mar 5 11:47:01 2002 Subject: Grid or Table Component? Message-ID: Is there a grid or table type of component in Revolution that I'm simply overlooking or some way to simulate the behavior of such a control that I haven't found yet? Or are we stuck with the old HyperCard technique of storing each element of a single list of data separately in adjoining fields and managing their scrolling synchronization in a script? -- Dan Shafer, Personal Creativity Trainer and Consultant Trained Hartman Value Profile Analyst http://www.danshafer.com/valueprofile.html From bvlahos at jpl.nasa.gov Tue Mar 5 12:10:40 2002 From: bvlahos at jpl.nasa.gov (Bill Vlahos) Date: Tue Mar 5 12:10:40 2002 Subject: Grid or Table Component? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <51461FDE-305A-11D6-B6C1-003065760662@jpl.nasa.gov> I believe that someone is working on an external. This is also a high priority item with the Rev folks for a future release after 1.1.1. What you can do right now is to show the vertical and/or horizontal grid lines in fields. This gives the appearance of cells. The Vertical grids are based on the TAB stops in the field. Text won't wrap within the "cell" though but you can adjust the tab stops. Bill Vlahos On Tuesday, March 5, 2002, at 08:44 AM, Dan Shafer wrote: > Is there a grid or table type of component in Revolution that I'm > simply overlooking or some way to simulate the behavior of such a > control that I haven't found yet? Or are we stuck with the old > HyperCard technique of storing each element of a single list of data > separately in adjoining fields and managing their scrolling > synchronization in a script? > -- Dan Shafer, Personal Creativity Trainer and Consultant > Trained Hartman Value Profile Analyst > http://www.danshafer.com/valueprofile.html > _______________________________________________ > use-revolution mailing list > use-revolution at lists.runrev.com > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution From tedl at voyager.net Tue Mar 5 12:21:01 2002 From: tedl at voyager.net (Ted) Date: Tue Mar 5 12:21:01 2002 Subject: Debugging on MacOS 7.5 Message-ID: <002501c1c46a$d9352200$8d755dd8@egl> Dan Freidman wrote to the Use list: >> I am having reports of my REV application crashing on startUp on MacOS 7.5. Scott Rossi replied: >If you can determine this, check the underlying version of MetaCard. >MetaCard 2.3 and earlier should run on MacOS 7.6 and earlier, but the latest >versions of MC won't work. According to the RunRev Web Site information on supported platforms: "Revolution supports these platforms for both development and deployment: Mac OS 7.1 and later..." Scott, if you have noted that any version of Revolution is not working on MacOS 7.6 and earlier, please add some specifics on the Improve list. Thanks, Ted From rcozens at pon.net Tue Mar 5 12:28:00 2002 From: rcozens at pon.net (Rob Cozens) Date: Tue Mar 5 12:28:00 2002 Subject: Time Field (Please Help) In-Reply-To: <8B770DCE-2FC3-11D6-B58D-000393598038@mac.com> References: <1E9815D6-2FC2-11D6-B58D-000393598038@mac.com> Message-ID: >The if test should always >be true once the message is sent to the correct object, regardless of >being on another card. Looks like you need to send forever and cancel on >exit. David, et al: If Transcript works like HyperTalk, this will not happen because "if there is a field..." refers only to the current card, not the card containing the control receiving the message: I made a copy of my HC Home stack and placed the following handler in the card script of card "User Preferences": on testit if there is a card field "User Name" then put "Found It" else beep end testit From dan at danshafer.com Tue Mar 5 12:38:00 2002 From: dan at danshafer.com (Dan Shafer) Date: Tue Mar 5 12:38:00 2002 Subject: Grid or Table Component? In-Reply-To: <51461FDE-305A-11D6-B6C1-003065760662@jpl.nasa.gov> References: <51461FDE-305A-11D6-B6C1-003065760662@jpl.nasa.gov> Message-ID: Bill Vlahos wrote: >I believe that someone is working on an external. This is also a >high priority item with the Rev folks for a future release after >1.1.1. Story of my life. Day early and a dollar short. :-) >What you can do right now is to show the vertical and/or horizontal >grid lines in fields. This gives the appearance of cells. The >Vertical grids are based on the TAB stops in the field. Text won't >wrap within the "cell" though but you can adjust the tab stops. Thanks. Not what I need but I may find some use for it. >Bill Vlahos > >On Tuesday, March 5, 2002, at 08:44 AM, Dan Shafer wrote: > >>Is there a grid or table type of component in Revolution that I'm >>simply overlooking or some way to simulate the behavior of such a >>control that I haven't found yet? Or are we stuck with the old >>HyperCard technique of storing each element of a single list of >>data separately in adjoining fields and managing their scrolling >>synchronization in a script? >>-- Dan Shafer, Personal Creativity Trainer and Consultant >>Trained Hartman Value Profile Analyst >>http://www.danshafer.com/valueprofile.html >>_______________________________________________ >>use-revolution mailing list >>use-revolution at lists.runrev.com >>http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution > >_______________________________________________ >use-revolution mailing list >use-revolution at lists.runrev.com >http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution -- Dan Shafer, Personal Creativity Trainer and Consultant Trained Hartman Value Profile Analyst http://www.danshafer.com/valueprofile.html From pixelbird at interisland.net Tue Mar 5 12:38:05 2002 From: pixelbird at interisland.net (Ken Norris (dialup)) Date: Tue Mar 5 12:38:05 2002 Subject: XMCD/XFCN In-Reply-To: Message-ID: on 3/4/02 1:23 PM, yves COPPE at yvescoppe at skynet.be wrote: > 3? Any idea of what happens ? ---------- As I understand it, only type 1 XCMD's work with Rev. The 'higher' forms of XCMD's designed for HC won't work with Rev. You should still check with Rinaldi, though. Best regards, Ken N. From tedl at voyager.net Tue Mar 5 12:43:01 2002 From: tedl at voyager.net (Ted) Date: Tue Mar 5 12:43:01 2002 Subject: Debugging on MacOS 7.5 Message-ID: <003301c1c46d$e75a03c0$8d755dd8@egl> Dan Friedman wrote to the Use list: > I am having reports of my REV application crashing on startUp on MacOS 7.5. (snip) >I'm not sure how to check the "underlying version of MetaCard". I'm Using >Revolution 1.1, if that helps? Dan, before spending a lot of time troubleshooting, you might want to download the Rev 1.1.1 Beta, open a COPY of your finished application in that version, and see whether the updated product still crashes on MacOS 7.5. Please let us know what happens. Ted From rcozens at pon.net Tue Mar 5 12:55:01 2002 From: rcozens at pon.net (Rob Cozens) Date: Tue Mar 5 12:55:01 2002 Subject: Grid or Table Component? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: > Or are we stuck with the old >HyperCard technique of storing each element of a single list of data >separately in adjoining fields and managing their scrolling >synchronization in a script? Hi Dan, There is another old HC technique that works well for me: 1. Create a single scrolling field with a non-proportional font (eg: courier, monaco) 2. Pad text with trailing blanks and numbers with leading blanks to create a fixed-format record for each line 3. Paint (in HC, position grid lines in RR) lines on the screen to create columns. 4. Provide individual fields below the scroll field for entry of new items. This solution may be low-tech, however it can also be a powerful table-management tool. I have written handlers to: 1. Add a record to the table in ascending or descending order based on a key value anwhere in the record. 2. Select a record from the table based on key value 3. Change any portion of a record 4 Delete a record based on key value 5. Retrieve any portion of a record If you would like to see how this translates visually, visit http://www.oenolog.com/oenotes.htm and look at the screen shots for first-level screens under the Wines, Vessels, & Setup menus. Rob Cozens CCW, Serendipity Software Company "And I, which was two fooles, do so grow three; Who are a little wise, the best fooles bee." from "The Triple Foole" by John Donne (1572-1631) From pixelbird at interisland.net Tue Mar 5 13:15:01 2002 From: pixelbird at interisland.net (Ken Norris (dialup)) Date: Tue Mar 5 13:15:01 2002 Subject: Constraining 'grab' In-Reply-To: Message-ID: on 3/4/02 6:26 PM, Geoff Canyon at gcanyon at inspiredlogic.com wrote: > local tDragging > > on mouseDown > put true into tDragging > end mouseDown > > on mouseMove mouseX,mouseY > if tDragging then > -- Do bounds checking here -- > set the loc of me to (mouseX,mouseY) > end if > end mouseMove > > on mouseUp > stopDragging > end mouseUp > > on mouseRelease > stopDragging > end mouseRelease > > on stopDragging > put false into tDragging > end stopDragging > > Note that you will likely want to get the offset of the mouse from the loc of > the object in the mouseDown in order to maintain that offset while dragging. > Otherwise the object will snap to the mouseLoc at mouseDown. ---------- Thanks Geoff, This is a lot like what I was looking for. However, I don't understand why you use both 'on mouseUp' and on 'mouseRelease'. Aren't they the same thing? Can you clarify the difference, if any, and why they _both_ need to be used? Thanks, Ken N. From iansummerfield at btconnect.com Tue Mar 5 13:19:01 2002 From: iansummerfield at btconnect.com (Ian Summerfield) Date: Tue Mar 5 13:19:01 2002 Subject: scrolling Fields In-Reply-To: <6A871D6A-2F9F-11D6-85A6-0003934902A2@tactilemedia.com> Message-ID: On 4/3/02 6:41 pm, "Scott Rossi" scribed: > > On Monday, March 4, 2002, at 09:24 AM, Stgecft at aol.com wrote: > >> I'd like to scroll 3 fields side by side (the look of a table-3 >> columns). >> How do I get them to scroll together? > > Group the fields and use a separate scrollbar object to scroll the > group. Lock the group to keep its size from changing. > > Regards, Are you saying to make the fields normal rectangles, ones that don't scroll but are big enough to show all the data, then scroll them within the group? Or am I missing something clever that would make a group scroll of three scrolling fields in sync? From scott at tactilemedia.com Tue Mar 5 13:20:01 2002 From: scott at tactilemedia.com (Scott Rossi) Date: Tue Mar 5 13:20:01 2002 Subject: Constraining 'grab' In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <6345D98C-3065-11D6-BF75-0003934902A2@tactilemedia.com> On Tuesday, March 5, 2002, at 10:26 AM, Ken Norris (dialup) wrote: > I don't understand why > you use both 'on mouseUp' and on 'mouseRelease'. Aren't they the same > thing? No. MouseRelease is used to trap when the user releases the mouse outside of the dragged control. A control cannot receive a mouseUp message if the mouse is not within the rect of the control. Regards, Scott Rossi Creative Director, Tactile Media scott at tactilemedia.com http://www.tactilemedia.com From marcus at synchromedia.co.uk Tue Mar 5 13:39:01 2002 From: marcus at synchromedia.co.uk (Marcus Bointon) Date: Tue Mar 5 13:39:01 2002 Subject: Quicktime vs Animation In-Reply-To: <003D996D-2FD5-11D6-BE6A-000A277C7800@naa.att.ne.jp> Message-ID: on 5/3/2002 1:04 am, Tim Chambers at chambers at naa.att.ne.jp wrote: > It occurs to me that I could do the imagery and sound in Hypercard, make > the Quicktime movies from there then import the movies to Revolution. > But with the images being in PICT format, I wonder what they would look > like on the Net. Why should that be a problem? QT will play a bunch of any kind of images as a movie, plus if you're planning on putting it inline, you'll be better off compressing it with something better and turning it into a regular movie. PNG is a great choice if you have flat colours, much better than the animation codec. Marcus -- Marcus Bointon Synchromedia Limited: Putting you in the picture marcus at synchromedia.co.uk | http://www.synchromedia.co.uk From zelston at aol.com Tue Mar 5 15:14:01 2002 From: zelston at aol.com (Zac Elston) Date: Tue Mar 5 15:14:01 2002 Subject: importing & managing stacks In-Reply-To: <200203051707.MAA19876@www.runrev.com> Message-ID: I have a stack, with substacks, and several of the substacks have almost identical functions. SO I thought I would save substackX to a file and then import it, change the GUI, rename it, import it again, change the GUI, rename it..... the idea was why go through the hassle of making almost identical substacks when only a few things needed to be changed. HOWEVER. as soon as I did a "move stack to file" I realized I don't see a way to bring the substack back under the mainstack. a lot of my code relied on having the substack be a substack so now I'm wondering..... how do I get it back? is there a way to manage stacks and who is a parent of who? thanks -Zac From scott at tactilemedia.com Tue Mar 5 16:05:01 2002 From: scott at tactilemedia.com (Scott Rossi) Date: Tue Mar 5 16:05:01 2002 Subject: scrolling Fields In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <6938D022-307C-11D6-A2E2-0003934902A2@tactilemedia.com> On Tuesday, March 5, 2002, at 10:14 AM, Ian Summerfield wrote: >>> I'd like to scroll 3 fields side by side (the look of a table-3 >>> columns). >>> How do I get them to scroll together? >> >> Group the fields and use a separate scrollbar object to scroll the >> group. Lock the group to keep its size from changing. > > Are you saying to make the fields normal rectangles, ones that don't > scroll > but are big enough to show all the data, then scroll them within the > group? Yes. You will scroll the group in which the fields appear, not the fields themselves. If necessary, you can use the formattedHeight and formattedWidth properties for setting the dimensions of your fields. Regards, Scott Rossi Creative Director, Tactile Media scott at tactilemedia.com http://www.tactilemedia.com From gcanyon at inspiredlogic.com Tue Mar 5 16:29:01 2002 From: gcanyon at inspiredlogic.com (Geoff Canyon) Date: Tue Mar 5 16:29:01 2002 Subject: importing & managing stacks In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: At 3:10 PM -0500 3/5/02, Zac Elston wrote: >I realized I don't see a way to bring the substack back >under the mainstack. a lot of my code relied on having the substack be a >substack so now I'm wondering..... how do I get it back? > >is there a way to manage stacks and who is a parent of who? Check out the mainStack property. Just set that property on the (soon to be) substack to the name of the (soon to be) mainStack. regards, gc From drvaughan55 at mac.com Tue Mar 5 17:07:01 2002 From: drvaughan55 at mac.com (David Vaughan) Date: Tue Mar 5 17:07:01 2002 Subject: Time Field (Please Help) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <0C192B55-3085-11D6-ABA7-000393598038@mac.com> On Wednesday, March 6, 2002, at 04:24 , Rob Cozens wrote: >> snip > I made a copy of my HC Home stack and placed the following handler in > the > card script of card "User Preferences": > > on testit > if there is a card field "User Name" then put "Found It" else beep > end testit > > From the message window I type 'send "testit" to card "User > Preferences"'. > > If I'm on card "User Preferences", "Found It" appears in the message > window; if I'm on a different card, I get the beep. > > IF it works this way in Transcript, I submit it is the best solution > because no explicit action is necessary to stop the loop when leaving > the > card. Rob You can not depend on it fail silently because Transcript is less bashful than HC. If the field does not exist then (in the development environment) you get an error dialog with "Chunk can't find object to store into". Using the if construct avoids that problem. Of course, you could always set idleRate to 1 second and use the idle message rather than send in. Who needs the seconds ticking by anyway? Set it to 30 seconds and display hours and minutes. regards David > > Rob Cozens > CCW, Serendipity Software Company > > "And I, which was two fooles, do so grow three; > Who are a little wise, the best fooles bee." > > from "The Triple Foole" by John Donne (1572-1631) > _______________________________________________ > use-revolution mailing list > use-revolution at lists.runrev.com > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution > From katir at hindu.org Tue Mar 5 18:13:04 2002 From: katir at hindu.org (Sivakatirswami) Date: Tue Mar 5 18:13:04 2002 Subject: Trigger MC CGI with nothing to StandardOut Message-ID: Aloha, Since my knowledge of CGI fills a small thimble... this question, ( which perhaps it more appropriately sent to the Apache listserver/forum, but since I want to do it from within MC....) I have a little mc cgi that "rotates" an image by randomly selecting one from a set of 15 and reading a gif as binary and writing out the file again under a standard name which is the tag in the HTML that is served. (see script below). I can trigger the CGI "from home" from within MC using "get url..." and it works fine. I can also put www.gurudeva.org/cgi-bin/rotate_taka_art.cgi into my browser and it works fine. But, if I comment out the part that serves the image to the browser...(the last three lines of this script) I will get an apache error... obviously on a GET Apache "demands' that something be sent to standardOut. What I want to do is eliminate the last three lines and still be able to trigger the CGI remotely. Another way to state the problem is: from with MC/REV how to tell a CGI to execute where that CGI doesn't return anything.. it simply performs an operation on site. OK, some context in case there is an entire better strategy: the goal is to include a statement in the html form of a index.shtml that is served that would trigger the CGI But, this doesn't work... I get binary code for the GIF in the place where this is entered, not a .GIF image... So, I want to "lop off" the last three lines so that when the page is hit, put the statement at the top of the page and have a normal img src tag, which goes for the same image, but the CGI will have swapped it for a new one each time, i.e. the art is "rotated and the next person who uses the page gets a different image... but, if I lop of the last three lines, apache doesn't like this either. I actually solved the problem with a work around by sending nothing out the pipe... but there are other situations where I don't want to be forced to send anything to standardOut... ########## rotate_taka_art.cgi ########## on startup set the directory to "../images" put random(15) into AumNo put "taka_aum_" &AumNo&".gif" into nextAum put URL ("binfile:aums/"&nextAum) into temp_image put temp_image into URL ("binfile:taka_header_art.gif") put "Content-Type: image/gif" & cr put "Content-Length:" && the length of temp_image & cr & cr put temp_image end startUp Wants to become: on startup set the directory to "../images" put random(15) into AumNo put "taka_aum_" &AumNo&".gif" into nextAum put URL ("binfile:aums/"&nextAum) into temp_image put temp_image into URL ("binfile:taka_header_art.gif") end startUp this work around works also, where send nothing to standard out except a header and then you can include the exec statement at the top of the HTML page... but this is very "hokey" : #!/export/vhost/org/g/gurudeva/www/public_html/cgi-bin/mc on startup set the directory to "../images" put random(15) into AumNo put "taka_aum_" &AumNo&".gif" into nextAum put URL ("binfile:aums/"&nextAum) into temp_image put temp_image into URL ("binfile:taka_header_art.gif") put empty into dummyOut put "Content-Type: image/gif" & cr put "Content-Length:" && the length of dummyOut & cr & cr put dummyOut end startUp Hinduism Today Sivakatirswami Editor's Assistant/Production Manager katir at hindu.org www.HinduismToday.com, www.HimalayanAcademy.com, www.Gurudeva.org, www.hindu.org Read The Master Course Lesson of the Day at http://www.gurudeva.org/lesson.shtml From katir at hindu.org Tue Mar 5 18:20:00 2002 From: katir at hindu.org (Sivakatirswami) Date: Tue Mar 5 18:20:00 2002 Subject: Trigger MC CGI with nothing to StandardOut Message-ID: Aloha, Since my knowledge of CGI fills a small thimble... this question, ( which perhaps it more appropriately sent to the Apache listserver/forum, but since I want to do it from within MC....) I have a little mc cgi that "rotates" an image by randomly selecting one from a set of 15 and reading a gif as binary and writing out the file again under a standard name which is the tag in the HTML that is served. (see script below). I can trigger the CGI "from home" from within MC using "get url..." and it works fine. I can also put www.gurudeva.org/cgi-bin/rotate_taka_art.cgi into my browser and it works fine. But, if I comment out the part that serves the image to the browser...(the last three lines of this script) I will get an apache error... obviously on a GET Apache "demands' that something be sent to standardOut. What I want to do is eliminate the last three lines and still be able to trigger the CGI remotely. Another way to state the problem is: from with MC/REV how to tell a CGI to execute where that CGI doesn't return anything.. it simply performs an operation on site. OK, some context in case there is an entire better strategy: the goal is to include a statement in the html form of a index.shtml that is served that would trigger the CGI But, this doesn't work... I get binary code for the GIF in the place where this is entered, not a .GIF image... So, I want to "lop off" the last three lines so that when the page is hit, put the statement at the top of the page and have a normal img src tag, which goes for the same image, but the CGI will have swapped it for a new one each time, i.e. the art is "rotated and the next person who uses the page gets a different image... but, if I lop of the last three lines, apache doesn't like this either. I actually solved the problem with a work around by sending nothing out the pipe... but there are other situations where I don't want to be forced to send anything to standardOut... ########## rotate_taka_art.cgi ########## on startup set the directory to "../images" put random(15) into AumNo put "taka_aum_" &AumNo&".gif" into nextAum put URL ("binfile:aums/"&nextAum) into temp_image put temp_image into URL ("binfile:taka_header_art.gif") put "Content-Type: image/gif" & cr put "Content-Length:" && the length of temp_image & cr & cr put temp_image end startUp Wants to become: on startup set the directory to "../images" put random(15) into AumNo put "taka_aum_" &AumNo&".gif" into nextAum put URL ("binfile:aums/"&nextAum) into temp_image put temp_image into URL ("binfile:taka_header_art.gif") end startUp this work around works also, where send nothing to standard out except a header and then you can include the exec statement at the top of the HTML page... but this is very "hokey" : #!/export/vhost/org/g/gurudeva/www/public_html/cgi-bin/mc on startup set the directory to "../images" put random(15) into AumNo put "taka_aum_" &AumNo&".gif" into nextAum put URL ("binfile:aums/"&nextAum) into temp_image put temp_image into URL ("binfile:taka_header_art.gif") put empty into dummyOut put "Content-Type: image/gif" & cr put "Content-Length:" && the length of dummyOut & cr & cr put dummyOut end startUp Hinduism Today Sivakatirswami Editor's Assistant/Production Manager katir at hindu.org www.HinduismToday.com, www.HimalayanAcademy.com, www.Gurudeva.org, www.hindu.org Read The Master Course Lesson of the Day at http://www.gurudeva.org/lesson.shtml _______________________________________________ metacard mailing list metacard at lists.runrev.com http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/metacard From pixelbird at interisland.net Tue Mar 5 18:44:02 2002 From: pixelbird at interisland.net (Ken Norris (dialup)) Date: Tue Mar 5 18:44:02 2002 Subject: Time Field (Please Help) In-Reply-To: <0C192B55-3085-11D6-ABA7-000393598038@mac.com> Message-ID: on 3/5/02 2:05 PM, David Vaughan at drvaughan55 at mac.com wrote: > Rob > > You can not depend on it fail silently because Transcript is less > bashful than HC. If the field does not exist then (in the development > environment) you get an error dialog with "Chunk can't find object to > store into". Using the if construct avoids that problem. > > Of course, you could always set idleRate to 1 second and use the idle > message rather than send in. Who needs the seconds ticking by anyway? > Set it to 30 seconds and display hours and minutes. ---------- Another whole approach. I don't know what the overall reason for having the clock onscreen is, or what platforms the stack(s) need to run on. In my own case, on a Mac with any system that puts the time in the menubar, I think I'm just going to leave the menubar and the clock/date visible. I will delete any other menus, except 'File', which I don't think you can delete, but maybe you can make it non-functional. Maybe in Rev, you can delete it, though, since they're just, ultimately, buttons. Is this true? Best regards, Ken N. From tsimmons at employmentlawadvisors.com Tue Mar 5 20:31:00 2002 From: tsimmons at employmentlawadvisors.com (William T. Simmons) Date: Tue Mar 5 20:31:00 2002 Subject: Time Field (Please Help) References: Message-ID: <000801c1c4ae$4c928970$0000a398@sndmgr122> I can't address the menu-disabling issue, but I'll just mention *a* reason for having the clock onscreen - I had designed ToolBook equivalents to my PowerPoint presentations - the presentations ran full-screen just like PowerPoint and had little fields that showed the current time in hours and minutes - I needed that to easily keep track of my remaining time in rooms that didn't have wall clocks (it looks kinda tacky to constantly be checking a watch, and I was always losing my travel clocks). PowerPoint couldn't display the time like that, so the time field solution came in handy. Tommy Simmons Employment Law Advisory Network www.employmentlawadvisors.com ----- Original Message ----- > on 3/5/02 2:05 PM, David Vaughan at drvaughan55 at mac.com wrote: > > > Rob > > > > You can not depend on it fail silently because Transcript is less > > bashful than HC. If the field does not exist then (in the development > > environment) you get an error dialog with "Chunk can't find object to > > store into". Using the if construct avoids that problem. > > > > Of course, you could always set idleRate to 1 second and use the idle > > message rather than send in. Who needs the seconds ticking by anyway? > > Set it to 30 seconds and display hours and minutes. > ---------- > Another whole approach. I don't know what the overall reason for having the > clock onscreen is, or what platforms the stack(s) need to run on. In my own > case, on a Mac with any system that puts the time in the menubar, I think > I'm just going to leave the menubar and the clock/date visible. I will > delete any other menus, except 'File', which I don't think you can delete, > but maybe you can make it non-functional. > > Maybe in Rev, you can delete it, though, since they're just, ultimately, > buttons. Is this true? > > Best regards, > Ken N. From pixelbird at interisland.net Tue Mar 5 20:55:01 2002 From: pixelbird at interisland.net (Ken Norris (dialup)) Date: Tue Mar 5 20:55:01 2002 Subject: Saving Docs to other places In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Hi Rev list, The following is kinda directed to Geoff Canyon, but I would welcome advise from anyone. I want to dedicate one of my ancient Macs (probably an SE or SE 30 because it won't use much desk space) to nothing but reference docs, so I don't have to interrupt what I'm doing in my development environment. For our purposes, let's just say Rev's docs. The problem is, the machine I want to use will not run RR, but it _will_ run HC and older versions of Claris and MS Word. Question sets: 1) Is the stack made with RTF only for the term hilite search capability? I don't think I can implement that (without a heckuvalotuvwork) in that old a machine. 2) Can I transfer (at least) the plain text of the docs into HyperCard fields? How about Claris for RTF? I can "Save Text" from the button, but what does it do, and where is it allowed to go? 3) Depending on the answers of (2), may I ask for some suggestions how I might go about it. 4) Why do the Rev docs use such huge fonts in the headers and large line spacing? I find it disturbing and unnecessary, and would like to change it. I see that it prints out without the big fonts, but there still isn't much content, just the one term in the dictionary for example, per page, thus there are 1800+ pages to print out. I think we're probably talking about 6 inches (or so) thickness, even if printed double sided, meaning at least three volumes. Consequently, for a serious RR developer, I think using a separate computer dedicated to the docs is the way to go. 5) If I wanted to run the Rev docs _as_ Rev docs, but just them only, what would be the memory cost? That is, I have a Mac Performa 630 which is running a 640x480 monitor with OS 7.6.1, maxed out at 32 mb of RAM (cannot take more). Will the RR docs run in RTF mode with just the basic MC engine? How about if I up the virtual memory to 64 mb? The monitor takes up more desk space than I'd like, but I can put the computer box somewhere off the desk. 6) How about making the docs as a standalone? The ultimate solution methinks. This one goes to the Improve Rev list, too. Thanks in advance for your considerations. Best regards, Ken Norris From pixelbird at interisland.net Tue Mar 5 21:35:01 2002 From: pixelbird at interisland.net (Ken Norris (dialup)) Date: Tue Mar 5 21:35:01 2002 Subject: Constraining 'grab' In-Reply-To: <6345D98C-3065-11D6-BF75-0003934902A2@tactilemedia.com> Message-ID: on 3/5/02 10:18 AM, Scott Rossi at scott at tactilemedia.com wrote: > > On Tuesday, March 5, 2002, at 10:26 AM, Ken Norris (dialup) wrote: > >> I don't understand why >> you use both 'on mouseUp' and on 'mouseRelease'. Aren't they the same >> thing? > > No. MouseRelease is used to trap when the user releases the mouse > outside of the dragged control. A control cannot receive a mouseUp > message if the mouse is not within the rect of the control. ---------- So this procedure is a safety measure which "catches" and deals with a situation where someone is whanging the cursor outside the dragged object by moving it faster than the object can follow it, then releasing the mouse before the object catches up. Is this the scenario where you'd need this? Best regards, Ken N. From gcanyon at inspiredlogic.com Tue Mar 5 23:32:01 2002 From: gcanyon at inspiredlogic.com (Geoff Canyon) Date: Tue Mar 5 23:32:01 2002 Subject: Time Field (Please Help) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: regarding menus: At 3:55 PM -0800 3/5/02, Ken Norris (dialup) wrote: >Maybe in Rev, you can delete it, though, since they're just, ultimately, >buttons. Is this true? (On Mac OS References: Message-ID: At 6:46 PM -0800 3/5/02, Ken Norris (dialup) wrote: >> No. MouseRelease is used to trap when the user releases the mouse >> outside of the dragged control. A control cannot receive a mouseUp >> message if the mouse is not within the rect of the control. >---------- >So this procedure is a safety measure which "catches" and deals with a >situation where someone is whanging the cursor outside the dragged object by >moving it faster than the object can follow it, then releasing the mouse >before the object catches up. Is this the scenario where you'd need this? It can be several things. Your suggestion might be one, another might be if they drag the pointer outside the stack, into the menubar, etc. regards, Geoff From pixelbird at interisland.net Tue Mar 5 23:54:00 2002 From: pixelbird at interisland.net (Ken Norris) Date: Tue Mar 5 23:54:00 2002 Subject: Time Field (Please Help) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: on 3/5/02 8:32 PM, Geoff Canyon at gcanyon at inspiredlogic.com wrote: > regarding menus: > > At 3:55 PM -0800 3/5/02, Ken Norris (dialup) wrote: >> Maybe in Rev, you can delete it, though, since they're just, ultimately, >> buttons. Is this true? > > (On Mac OS menu and a Help menu. No File or Edit. Note this is when you are running in a > standalone, or without the development environment (by double-clicking a stack > before opening Rev). If you're talking about deleting menus in the development > environment, it probably isn't a good idea. ---------- No, no, I agree. Not unless you're altering the GUI. I was thinking about the simplicity of just using the menubar clock by leaving the menu on screen, but disabled/blank (except the clock), if there was a user issue with it. Why go through the contortions of trying to keep it updated in a field if you don't have to? Best regards, Ken N. From chambers at naa.att.ne.jp Wed Mar 6 01:03:01 2002 From: chambers at naa.att.ne.jp (Tim Chambers) Date: Wed Mar 6 01:03:01 2002 Subject: QT vs Animation Manager Message-ID: <7556A452-30C7-11D6-92B7-000A277C7800@naa.att.ne.jp> Hi Marcus, Thanks for the additional advice. I'm on a steep learning curve at the moment. I'm working on the cards now in AppleWorks Paint, saving them as JPEGs, then feeding them into QT. I'll try the PNG. When it's all done I'll import the movies to Revolution and link it to the website from there. Tim From pixelbird at interisland.net Wed Mar 6 03:06:01 2002 From: pixelbird at interisland.net (Ken Norris (dialup)) Date: Wed Mar 6 03:06:01 2002 Subject: Constraining 'grab' In-Reply-To: Message-ID: on 3/5/02 8:38 PM, Geoff Canyon at gcanyon at inspiredlogic.com wrote: > It can be several things. Your suggestion might be one, another might be if > they drag the pointer outside the stack, into the menubar, etc. ---------- Ahh, yes, I see, said the blindMan. Are you saying 'grab' doesn't carry the drag activity with it outside the stack? I'm trying understand differences to HC. In HC, using this button routine: on mousestilldown put max(81,min(557,the mouseh)) into x put max(167,min(287,the mousev)) into y set the loc of me to x,y end mousestilldown ...has no penalty for releasing the mouse button anywhere outside the stack. If a mouseUp handler exists in the same script, it gets executed no matter where the mouse is, with the exception below. Otherwise the handler just quits, nothing happens. If you were over a menu or another button, it wouldn't have fired it until you clicked _again_. _Unless_: If a mouseUp handler in the same object script had a conditional statement tied to an area, and you released the button within that area, then the rest of the handler would execute: on mouseUp get the mouseLoc if it is within the rect of fld ID xxxx then doSomeStuff else doSomeAlternateStuff end if end mouseUp ...otherwise, nothing would happen, no matter where you release the button. You're saying that if I drag outside the stack, then the thing I'm over, like a menu item, gets the mouseUp message when I release, no matter what object script _initiated_ the mouseUp message, unless I take the extra step of deliberately killing it? I dunno...that makes no sense to me. Why would the mouseUp message get passed to any other object than the one that initiated it (unless it was written that way on purpose), as long as the mouse is still down in the dragging condition when you get there? If this is indeed true, it'll take some serious brain bending for me to get used to...mouse things passing messages to other objects that didn't originate the handler (without being told to) is just _flat_ illogical. Best regards, Ken N. From okpkemetian at yahoo.com Wed Mar 6 03:57:00 2002 From: okpkemetian at yahoo.com (OkayActivist Kemetian) Date: Wed Mar 6 03:57:00 2002 Subject: ODBC & Rev on a Mac Message-ID: <20020306075456.66591.qmail@web20910.mail.yahoo.com> I am trying to use the database manager to connect to a Filemaker Pro 5.5. database on Mac OS 9.2. With it comes the ODBC control panel 3.51. when i try to make the connection in Rev's DB Manager i get the following error: "[MERANT][Macintosh ODBC Driver Manager] Data source name not found and no default driver specified." i suspect that i have not configured it correctly. i set the sharing options for the db itself as FM Pro suggests in its help, but i do not see anywhere in the control panel that lets you specify the particular file you are wanting to associate the connection with. i've given it a name in the User DSN tab. i am accustomed to using the one in windows to connect to an access db but this has me stumped. i simply want to be able to add data to fields and retrieve the data from the Filemaker Pro db using Rev. i've looked at the help in the database manager to no avail and the vb/rev comparison eg app is developed on windows. any help is greatly appreciated. To post a message to all the list members, send email to use-revolution at lists.runrev.com. __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Try FREE Yahoo! Mail - the world's greatest free email! http://mail.yahoo.com/ From benr_mc at cogapp.com Wed Mar 6 06:06:01 2002 From: benr_mc at cogapp.com (Ben Rubinstein) Date: Wed Mar 6 06:06:01 2002 Subject: ODBC & Rev on a Mac In-Reply-To: <20020306075456.66591.qmail@web20910.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: on 6/3/02 7:54 AM, OkayActivist Kemetian at okpkemetian at yahoo.com wrote: > I am trying to use the database manager to connect to > a Filemaker Pro 5.5. database on Mac OS 9.2. With it > comes the ODBC control panel 3.51. when i try to make > the connection in Rev's DB Manager i get the following > error: > > "[MERANT][Macintosh ODBC Driver Manager] Data source > name not found and no default driver specified." > > i suspect that i have not configured it correctly. i > set the sharing options for the db itself as FM Pro > suggests in its help, but i do not see anywhere in the > control panel that lets you specify the particular > file you are wanting to associate the connection with. > i've given it a name in the User DSN tab. i am > accustomed to using the one in windows to connect to > an access db but this has me stumped. > > i simply want to be able to add data to fields and > retrieve the data from the Filemaker Pro db using Rev. > i've looked at the help in the database manager to no > avail and the vb/rev comparison eg app is developed on > windows. > > any help is greatly appreciated. Well... I can tell you it does work! It took me quite a while to get it working, but I now have it working fine with FMP on both Mac (9.1) and Win. Perhaps because of the way FMP is confused about databases and tables, it looks like you don't set this up in the DSN - I've just got one called "FMPconnect", which I then use for all FMP stuff (same on Windows). You may be able to specify the database/table/document in the parameters to revdb_connect (ie equivalently in the fields of the DB Manager's "text data" tab) but I'm not even doing that - since FMP doesn't really know about databases, it appears than in effect the database has an implied definition of all the tables that are open in FMP. Here's some necessary preconditions - can't swear which of these might be the problem for you, might be none, but all of these are required. This is for all dealing with FMP on the same machine as Revolution. - You need FMP running, and the databases open; - each database needs to have the "Local Data Access Companion" checkbox set in the "Sharing" dialog - the "Local Data Access Companion" needs to be enabled in the "Plugins" tab of the Application Prefs - you need to set up a "User Data Source" in the ODBC control panel 3.51 - as noted, I just created one, with no interesting parameters (except you may want to increase the 'Max Text Length', depending on what you're dealing with) - if you're testing with the Database Manager's sample, you need to reference the DSN name that you've set up in the ODBC control panel as the "Host", with database type set to "ODBC", and with at least a space for each of Database, User, Password. - Then if you get a "dataconnection" window when you click "New Connection to Database", the final gotcha is lurking. The window opens with a sample query "select * from super;". If you edit this to refer to your table, you might naturally have something like "select * from testdb.fp5;" - I did, and spent ages worrying whether the extension was required, correct case, etc. Finally it turned out that FMP was parsing the semicolon badly: it should be "select * from testdb.fp5 ;". Hope this helps, Ben Rubinstein | Email: benr_mc at cogapp.com Cognitive Applications Ltd | Phone: +44 (0)1273-821600 http://www.cogapp.com | Fax : +44 (0)1273-728866 From gcanyon at inspiredlogic.com Wed Mar 6 10:03:00 2002 From: gcanyon at inspiredlogic.com (Geoff Canyon) Date: Wed Mar 6 10:03:00 2002 Subject: Saving Docs to other places In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: At 6:06 PM -0800 3/5/02, Ken Norris (dialup) wrote: >I want to dedicate one of my ancient Macs (probably an SE or SE 30 because >it won't use much desk space) to nothing but reference docs, so I don't have >to interrupt what I'm doing in my development environment. For our purposes, >let's just say Rev's docs. > >The problem is, the machine I want to use will not run RR, but it _will_ run >HC and older versions of Claris and MS Word. > >Question sets: > >1) Is the stack made with RTF only for the term hilite search capability? I >don't think I can implement that (without a heckuvalotuvwork) in that old a >machine. It was made with RTF because that allows some control over formatting while being importable into Word, AppleWorks, and a variety of other applications. >2) Can I transfer (at least) the plain text of the docs into HyperCard >fields? How about Claris for RTF? I can "Save Text" from the button, but >what does it do, and where is it allowed to go? Aren't HyperCard fields limited to 32k of text? (it's been too long since I worked with HyperCard) That would mean you'd have to create a ton of cards in a HyperCard stack. You can open the RTF in Claris/AppleWorks. The Save as Text button saves the docs as a text-only document. You can open that in Word, AppleWorks, BBEdit, etc. >3) Depending on the answers of (2), may I ask for some suggestions how I >might go about it. I wouldn't try the HyperCard thing -- too much work to set up, and when the docs are updated, a pain to do again. Besides the text option, you could also use the HTML export -- it supports cross-references (mostly), and maintains the character formatting (mostly). You could use a low-memory browser like iCab. You would have to provide your own global search, though. BBEdit can search multiple documents, and other options are available. >4) Why do the Rev docs use such huge fonts in the headers and large line >spacing? I find it disturbing and unnecessary, and would like to change it. >I see that it prints out without the big fonts, but there still isn't much >content, just the one term in the dictionary for example, per page, thus >there are 1800+ pages to print out. I think we're probably talking about 6 >inches (or so) thickness, even if printed double sided, meaning at least >three volumes. Consequently, for a serious RR developer, I think using a >separate computer dedicated to the docs is the way to go. The formatting of the exports is my responsibility/fault. :-) However, you are in complete control of the formatting of the exports. The three fields on each card are templates for that export. Change the formatting text there to produce smaller type, and perhaps not insert a page break for each item. The page breaks were for organization; I never expected people would print based on the export, since the original purpose was to be able to search all the help docs at once. >5) If I wanted to run the Rev docs _as_ Rev docs, but just them only, what >would be the memory cost? That is, I have a Mac Performa 630 which is >running a 640x480 monitor with OS 7.6.1, maxed out at 32 mb of RAM (cannot >take more). Will the RR docs run in RTF mode with just the basic MC engine? >How about if I up the virtual memory to 64 mb? The monitor takes up more >desk space than I'd like, but I can put the computer box somewhere off the >desk. See below. It would likely be the same. >6) How about making the docs as a standalone? The ultimate solution >methinks. This one goes to the Improve Rev list, too. You can open the docs without the development environment; just double-click one of the stacks with Revolution closed. Some of the functionality breaks, but overall it seems usable in my limited testing. It would be about the same if you built a standalone. regards, Geoff From gcanyon at inspiredlogic.com Wed Mar 6 10:14:01 2002 From: gcanyon at inspiredlogic.com (Geoff Canyon) Date: Wed Mar 6 10:14:01 2002 Subject: Constraining 'grab' In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: At 12:16 AM -0800 3/6/02, Ken Norris (dialup) wrote: >You're saying that if I drag outside the stack, then the thing I'm over, >like a menu item, gets the mouseUp message when I release, no matter what >object script _initiated_ the mouseUp message, unless I take the extra step >of deliberately killing it? I dunno...that makes no sense to me. Why would >the mouseUp message get passed to any other object than the one that >initiated it (unless it was written that way on purpose), as long as the >mouse is still down in the dragging condition when you get there? > >If this is indeed true, it'll take some serious brain bending for me to get >used to...mouse things passing messages to other objects that didn't >originate the handler (without being told to) is just _flat_ illogical. And that's why it doesn't work that way :-) The mouseRelease and mouseUp messages are mutually exclusive, and always delivered to the object that received the mouseDown. If you click on a button that contains the script I posted earlier, then that button will receive either a mouseUp or a mouseRelease. If the the pointer is within the button when you let up the mouse button, then the button gets a mouseUp. If not, the button gets a mouseRelease. If you want the button to do something when the mouse button is released, no matter what, you can either put your code in the mouseUp handler and include this: on mouseRelease mouseUp end mouseRelease Or, as I did, you can include a third handler that both the mouseUp and mouseRelease call. regards, Geoff From Roger.E.Eller at sealedair.com Wed Mar 6 10:26:01 2002 From: Roger.E.Eller at sealedair.com (Roger.E.Eller at sealedair.com) Date: Wed Mar 6 10:26:01 2002 Subject: Standalone -vs- RevPlayer Message-ID: Hey Guys, I was wondering if a "generic" standalone could be made that would run any ".rev" stack. This approach would be similar to how HyperCard has a player app that will run most HC stacks. It just seems that we are putting so much redundant data in standalones. Two megs per app begins to add up. This player app of course would have to include "everything" except the DEV tools. It would need all libraries, image sets, the Rev UI, etc. This would allow internet downloads of stacks to be much quicker for users on dial-up. Of course if you are selling the app, standalones may be a better way because of the protections you can incorporate. Any thoughts? Roger Eller From sylvanbouju at libertysurf.fr Wed Mar 6 10:54:01 2002 From: sylvanbouju at libertysurf.fr (Sylvain Bouju) Date: Wed Mar 6 10:54:01 2002 Subject: XMCD/XFCN (about...) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: on 5/03/02 18:49, Ken Norris (dialup) at pixelbird at interisland.net wrote: > As I understand it, only type 1 XCMD's work with Rev. The 'higher' forms of > XCMD's designed for HC won't work with Rev. And does anybody know if Rinaldi's fullHPop XFCN is of the right type? Seing your message, I just tried to install it into a Rev stack with Resedit; then I made a button with a script like this: on mouseDown put "color,red,yellow,green,blue" into line 1 of myMenu put "size,S,M,L,XL" into line 2 of myMenu put the clickLoc into myClickLoc subtract 5 from item 1 of myClickLoc subtract 5 from item 2 of myClickLoc put "Geneva,9" into myLook get fullHPop(myMenu,myClickLoc,myLook) put it into message box end mouseDown The popup menu pops OK on mousedown, nothing wrong happens if I "mouseUp" with no choice (outside of the menu), but I get a brutal Revolution quitting with type 1 error message when I try to make a choice in the menu... PS: I have tried hard too in order to just begin to emulate this XFCN under Revolution language alone, but without any success:-( -- Sylvain Bouju sbouju at bigfoot.com -- From rcozens at pon.net Wed Mar 6 11:19:03 2002 From: rcozens at pon.net (Rob Cozens) Date: Wed Mar 6 11:19:03 2002 Subject: Time Field (Please Help) In-Reply-To: <0C192B55-3085-11D6-ABA7-000393598038@mac.com> References: Message-ID: >You can not depend on it fail silently because Transcript is less >bashful than HC. If the field does not exist then (in the development >environment) you get an error dialog with "Chunk can't find object to >store into". Using the if construct avoids that problem. Read my scripts, Terry: :{`) >>on updateTime >> if there is a field "Now" then >> put the long time into field "Now" >> send updateTime to field "Now" in 1 second >> end if >>end updateTime >on testit > if there is a card field "User Name" then put "Found It" else beep >end testit Don't both include the if construct? BTW, HT will complain just like Transcript if one references a nonexistent object. Rob Cozens CCW, Serendipity Software Company "And I, which was two fooles, do so grow three; Who are a little wise, the best fooles bee." from "The Triple Foole" by John Donne (1572-1631) From jacque at hyperactivesw.com Wed Mar 6 11:27:01 2002 From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (Jacqueline Landman Gay) Date: Wed Mar 6 11:27:01 2002 Subject: Constraining 'grab' In-Reply-To: <200203061107.GAA08458@www.runrev.com> Message-ID: On Wednesday, March 6, 2002, at 05:07 AM, Ken Norris (dialup)" You're saying that if I drag outside the stack, then the thing I'm over, > like a menu item, gets the mouseUp message when I release, no matter what > object script _initiated_ the mouseUp message, unless I take the extra > step > of deliberately killing it? I dunno...that makes no sense to me. Why would > the mouseUp message get passed to any other object than the one that > initiated it (unless it was written that way on purpose), as long as the > mouse is still down in the dragging condition when you get there? No, that's not what's happening. In HyperCard, a mouseUp message is sent to the original object that received the mousedown, always and without exception. In MetaCard, if the user releases the mouse outside of the original object, a mouseRelease message is sent to the object rather than a mouseUp. MouseUp is only sent if the release happens inside the original object. This is very handy. If the user releases the mouse inside the original control, scripts can treat it just as HyperCard did with a mouseUp handler. But if the user releases the mouse outside of the control, the mouseRelease message is a good way to clean up anything that may have changed and exit gracefully. In HC, to do the same thing, you'd have to poll the mouse location on "mouseup" to see whether the user actually finished clicking the button or not. In MC, you just use the mouseRelease message, because if you are getting a mouseUp, you know for sure that the button was clicked and if you are getting a mouseRelease, you know for sure it wasn't. One common reason for needing to trap mouseRelease is because users change their minds. They will mouse down on a button, realize they don't really want to click it, and slide the mouse off the button before releasing. If the button script has a mousedown handler that changes the environment in any way, then trapping mouserelease will allow you to set everything back the way it was, even though a full mouseclick never happened. -- Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com From JAMES.G.YATES at saic.com Wed Mar 6 12:31:01 2002 From: JAMES.G.YATES at saic.com (Yates, Glen) Date: Wed Mar 6 12:31:01 2002 Subject: XMCD/XFCN (about...) Message-ID: <33F0B58BF432D211B72200805FEFAAD905A5AC@hun-its-exs01.saic.com> What is a "type 1" xcmd? I've written some XCMD's (several years ago for FoxPro, but no reason why they wouldn't also work in HC), and I do not remember such nomenclature or classes of xcmd's. BTW, one of my XCMD's (XCFN actually) gets the user login name from the server the app is running from. So if the app is hosted remotely on a Novell, NT, or Appleshare server etc. Then it would return the login name used to access that server. The other launches applications given the 4 character creator code, i.e. you don't have to know the path to the app, it will find it if it exists. It will optionally have the app open a document you specify. Anyway, I don't know if anybody still needs these kinds of capabilities, but I could make these available if anyone does. -Glen Yates P.S. I also wrote an applescript scripting addition that does the same thing as the first xcmd above. > on 5/03/02 18:49, Ken Norris (dialup) at > pixelbird at interisland.net wrote: > > > As I understand it, only type 1 XCMD's work with Rev. The > 'higher' forms of > > XCMD's designed for HC won't work with Rev. > From prodevm at yahoo.com Wed Mar 6 13:25:01 2002 From: prodevm at yahoo.com (Steve L) Date: Wed Mar 6 13:25:01 2002 Subject: Convert time in short system time to 24hr military format Message-ID: <20020306182256.80589.qmail@web20304.mail.yahoo.com> Hello, I have a drop down selection field that allows the user to select a time, that is in "short system time" format (being that most people are familiar with that format). However, once selected I need to convert that time selection into 24 hour military time format. I tried puting that field into a container then tried to covert it via the twelveHourTime set to false, but I cannot make it work. I believe the problem may be due to the twelveHourTime true/false can only be used to set or convert by reference of the system time, but not able to set or convert a time format that is in a container. Any thoughts on how to due this would be greatly apreciated. Thanks Steve L. __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Try FREE Yahoo! Mail - the world's greatest free email! http://mail.yahoo.com/ From GSaylor at ATP.com Wed Mar 6 13:43:01 2002 From: GSaylor at ATP.com (Greg Saylor) Date: Wed Mar 6 13:43:01 2002 Subject: use-revolution digest, Vol 1 #248 - 12 msgs Message-ID: <751AC1038CDDD2118753080009FCD55501B2654B@m1.atp.com> > Try using the latest beta - version 1.1.1B1. It seems much > more stable than > the release version. > I have tried this one, but it seems to have a bunch of problems too. Though it is more stable, I have to keep restarting because little things, like the fact the script edit window doesn't open up to the size I set it to. And when I have the properties field open and go from one item to another item none of the changes are reflected in the properties window. (NOTE: Both of these only happen after using it for a while. On a related subject, with both versions of this I have found a *VERY* odd problem. I have a "tabbed button" and the text for the tabs are something like: "Sect. 1, 2, and 3" "Sect. 2, and 4" "Sect. 5, 6, and 7" "Sect. 8" And I do something like this in the action for the button: on mouseUp go to card the selectedtext of me of stack "FAA Form 337" end mouseUp As a result i have several cards with the same names "Sect. 1, 2, and 3", "Sect. 5, 6, and 7", etc. Now what happens is really strange The text of the card names actually gets changed to something else sometimes. I dont' have the exact string, because I have recently corrected it. But it is something like: "Sect. 1/REVOLUTION01 2/REVOLUTION01 3/REVOLUTION01". It works for a while and then it screws up. It looks like it is choking on the "," character. > needs to get access to > > the controls on it's parent stack.... > Use "the mainStack of this stack". This gives you the name of > the parent > stack. Note that if you build an application with the I have tried this and I just can't get it to work.. ;< Here is my original line: on openStack repeat with x = 1 to the number of lines of the cardIDs of stack "Form" repeat with y = 1 to the number of lines of the groupIDs of card x of stack "Form" if the owner of control z of group y of card x of stack "Form" is the name of group y of card x of stack "Form" then if the print of group y of card x of stack "Form" = 1 then put the name of control z of group y of card x of stack "Form" into theName put count+1 into count end repeat end repeat close openStack The problem with this is it has the "Form" hardcoded and every attempt I have done to make it non-hard coded has basically failed. And my hands are sore from trying. heheeh... Any ideas? I think I am about ready to make this purchase, Revolution seems very flexible and all of the great help here on the list server is a huge asset. > Points I guess, same as when you select a font size from a > normal font menu > in any application. > You are correct. I have done some investigation, they are in points. And of course the font sizes are different between platforms, which truly sucks when trying to do any sort of precise layout in a cross-platform sort of way. > Another idea to consider is using the formattedWidth, the > formattedHeight & > the formattedText to arrange your fields or text to fit. > For now I have gone with the scaling approach, but as a long-term idea I think the formattedWidth may be a better way to approach it. It seems like an interesting angle. > If you save the stack, they'll be there next time. Otherwise > they will be > gone next time the stack is opened, but not between uses if > the application > is left open. Do you need to create new fields? Perhaps you > could make them > in advance but have them hidden. > I have taken your advice on this, but the problem is I am trying to design something a bit more general purpose where the background and forms are specified externally to the application. So there is some sort of "designer" that could be used to design it and the main applicaiton which depends on what was done with the designer. I just want to make sure I understand. If I do some procedure in "openStack" which adds fields to the form and then do a "closeStack". The next time I open the stack for printing it will print new fields correct? I think what you are suggesting is to not do the "closeStack" and just let it stay open. In a "built application" will this present a problem when the users closes my application?. I don't want them to have the ability to save that stack, just have it exit without saving the changes. > > > > #7. Originally what I wanted to do was set a TIFF image > (converted to a PNG) > > as a background for the printed page... > Can't help here but I am interested in any ideas that you get > from other > people. I have another idea on this one, but I'm just not sure how to pull it off. Basically what it amounts to is a way to convert a postscript file into a file with a series of "commands" which would basically draw the form automatically inside of a Revolution stack. I don't know where I am going with this yet, but it would seem to solve the problem since vector-type graphics look very nice when printed from revolution. - Greg > > Cheers, > Sarah -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From GSaylor at ATP.com Wed Mar 6 13:45:01 2002 From: GSaylor at ATP.com (Greg Saylor) Date: Wed Mar 6 13:45:01 2002 Subject: stack (0) ? (see previous message) Message-ID: <751AC1038CDDD2118753080009FCD55501B2654C@m1.atp.com> Sorry my previous email did not have the correct title - Greg -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From johnrule at rcsprogramming.com Wed Mar 6 15:00:01 2002 From: johnrule at rcsprogramming.com (John Rule) Date: Wed Mar 6 15:00:01 2002 Subject: Patterns work around & requests Message-ID: <000701c1c514$290fbe80$0615500a@direcpc.com> >> If I then transfer this stack to a Macintosh, the buttons represent the >> pattern as if the pattern were the size of the stack (or screen). In other >> words, the pattern is reflected differently in every button on the Mac (the >> pattern is not redrawn at a 0,0, coordinate for each button). >> >> I know patterns are 'natively' different on each platform, but this is odd >> (and I would think this is wrong). >> >> Can anyone verify/explain this? >From the docs: >Pattern images can be color or black-and-white. To be used on Mac OS >systems, patterns must be 128x128 pixels or less, and both its height and >width must be a power of 2. To be used on Windows and Unix systems, height >and width must be divisible by 8. >Does that explain it? >Kevin Thanks for the info Kevin, I just converted all of my patterns to 128 x 128 (this might be a good 'tip' for cross-platform beginners). The patterns work fine on both platforms at this size now... It doesn't explain what I was seeing though...the pattern was not being drawn within the object at a 0,0 coordinate. It seems to me that I could have avoided all of this if it (the engine) drew the pattern starting at the upper left of each object that it was separately assigned to. The only reason I am using patterns in this manner is because I cannot have the text name of the object appear in the center any other way. If I assign my imported pattern/image as an icon, the name now appears underneath the button. I played with the margins, but the text just disappears behind the button as I go up. Which brings me to some feature requests: Button name centered with object (for buttons with images/icons...patterns are ok) Text on color Text off color Button on text Button off text JR From pixelbird at interisland.net Wed Mar 6 15:10:01 2002 From: pixelbird at interisland.net (Ken Norris) Date: Wed Mar 6 15:10:01 2002 Subject: Saving Docs to other places In-Reply-To: Message-ID: on 3/6/02 12:58 AM, Geoff Canyon at gcanyon at inspiredlogic.com wrote: > At 6:06 PM -0800 3/5/02, Ken Norris (dialup) wrote: >> I want to dedicate one of my ancient Macs (probably an SE or SE 30 because >> it won't use much desk space) to nothing but reference docs, so I don't have >> to interrupt what I'm doing in my development environment. For our purposes, >> let's just say Rev's docs. >> >> The problem is, the machine I want to use will not run RR, but it _will_ run >> HC and older versions of Claris and MS Word. >> >> Question sets: >> >> 1) Is the stack made with RTF only for the term hilite search capability? I >> don't think I can implement that (without a heckuvalotuvwork) in that old a >> machine. > > It was made with RTF because that allows some control over formatting while > being importable into Word, AppleWorks, and a variety of other applications. > >> 2) Can I transfer (at least) the plain text of the docs into HyperCard >> fields? How about Claris for RTF? I can "Save Text" from the button, but >> what does it do, and where is it allowed to go? > > Aren't HyperCard fields limited to 32k of text? (it's been too long since I > worked with HyperCard) That would mean you'd have to create a ton of cards in > a HyperCard stack. > > You can open the RTF in Claris/AppleWorks. > > The Save as Text button saves the docs as a text-only document. You can open > that in Word, AppleWorks, BBEdit, etc. > >> 3) Depending on the answers of (2), may I ask for some suggestions how I >> might go about it. > > I wouldn't try the HyperCard thing -- too much work to set up, and when the > docs are updated, a pain to do again. ---------- Nah. Just copy the docs into a word proc as suggested (go eat breakfast, finish reorganizing office). Then set up an HC stack to import each page to a card (background field), using the page break as a delimiter (go eat lunch, get weedeater running). Nothin' to it. ---------- > Besides the text option, you could also > use the HTML export -- it supports cross-references (mostly), and maintains > the character formatting (mostly). You could use a low-memory browser like > iCab. You would have to provide your own global search, though. BBEdit can > search multiple documents, and other options are available. ---------- Nice to have these options. Thank you. ---------- > The three fields on each > card are templates for that export. Change the formatting text there to > produce smaller type, and perhaps not insert a page break for each item. The > page breaks were for organization; I never expected people would print based > on the export, since the original purpose was to be able to search all the > help docs at once. ---------- The very reason for having it in another "reference" computer. ---------- > You can open the docs without the development environment; just double-click > one of the stacks with Revolution closed. ---------- This doesn't work, at least in my version. With Rev closed, I open "revrtfer.rev ", double-click on a stack in the field, nothing happens. It only works when Rev is already open. ---------- > It would be about the same > if you built a standalone. ---------- A standalone should run on the Performa, because the memory requirements should fall easily within limits. Geoff, I beleieve one of the reasons people are having problems with RR, and the one major thing that turns me off, and also the reason the same questions get asked over and over, is because of difficulties accessing the docs. Bringing up a particular item takes a while on most people's machines, the window covers up what you are doing, so you are forced to toggle back and forth between the stack(s) you're working on and the docs in order to try out what you've read, make corrections, retry, go back and reopen the docs, etc. This situation gets maddening after awhile. Suppose you look up an item, think you've got it, then go back to your program, try it and it fails, so you may have to reopen the docs, relocate the item, then reread it. Your program is covered up by the docs, and you didn't place the place the properties palette quite far enough to the side to bring it to the front, so you have to try to remember which parameter may be incorrect or out of sequence, then toggle back to the app window, and see where your mistake was, correct the script and try it again. Lord, I pray it works, because if not, you'll have to go through the whole sequence again. So, my cure, which I know will work for me, and maybe for others, is to set up another small computer _with the docs_ next to the one I'm developing on. Just like having a reference book, only better, because you can look up stuff from the Finder, Sherlock, the search box, even make your own. Since they are independent, I can have them both available simultaneously. Think about the quantum leap advantage of this for a minute. This is why having standalone docs would work so well. You can run them on another machine. I've tried all the other suggestions, and I remain convinced this is the best way, so I'm going to forget about scripting my program and trying to learn anything else in RR, except what I need to focus on this idea, until I get it working. How hard could it be to make an editable standalone of the docs? I'm going to make the attempt, because I see it as a necessity. Best regards, Ken N. From gcanyon at inspiredlogic.com Wed Mar 6 15:45:01 2002 From: gcanyon at inspiredlogic.com (Geoff Canyon) Date: Wed Mar 6 15:45:01 2002 Subject: stack 0 (?) In-Reply-To: <751AC1038CDDD2118753080009FCD55501B26541@m1.atp.com> References: <751AC1038CDDD2118753080009FCD55501B26541@m1.atp.com> Message-ID: At 7:42 AM -0800 3/3/02, Greg Saylor wrote: >#2. I have a stack with a substack... And the substack needs to get access to the controls on it's parent stack.... I can do this if I specify the name of the stack (for example: answer the short name of stack "my stack"), but I can't seem to do it by stack number... (For example: answer the short name of stack 0)... Is there any way to unambiguously refer to the stack on which a substack belongs to?.. I even tried : answer the short name of word 5 of stack topStack but it failed on this, probably because of the quotes surrounding it I guess?... The bottom line is, is there some way to do this?... If I understand correctly, have you looked at the mainStack property? Unless you have stacks with the same name (something to avoid in the first place) this should do the trick. regards, Geoff From gcanyon at inspiredlogic.com Wed Mar 6 18:13:01 2002 From: gcanyon at inspiredlogic.com (Geoff Canyon) Date: Wed Mar 6 18:13:01 2002 Subject: Saving Docs to other places Message-ID: At 12:21 PM -0800 3/6/02, Ken Norris wrote: >> You can open the docs without the development environment; just double-click >> one of the stacks with Revolution closed. >---------- >This doesn't work, at least in my version. With Rev closed, I open >"revrtfer.rev ", double-click on a stack in the field, nothing happens. It >only works when Rev is already open. Don't double-click revrtfer -- double click some of the stacks in components/help: revglossary.rev REVABOUT.REV REVHELP.REV REVHOW.REV revlanguage.rev revquickref.rev revshortcuts.rev REVTIPS.REV REVWHY.REV The language reference, for example (in revlanguage.rev) will open in Revolution (without the development environment) and work fairly well. The formatting ends up being a little off, because it's designed to inherit some of that, and the things it's inheriting from aren't there. You should be able to do this on a small standalone machine, perhaps with only 32MB of RAM. The advantage is you don't have to do anything besides install Revolution on that machine and double-click the stack file. regards, Geoff From JohnRule at aol.com Wed Mar 6 21:30:01 2002 From: JohnRule at aol.com (JohnRule at aol.com) Date: Wed Mar 6 21:30:01 2002 Subject: Converting long seconds Message-ID: I cannot seem to find the method for converting the long seconds (as in the pendingMessages) to the time/date...is this not possible? JR From scott at tactilemedia.com Wed Mar 6 21:45:00 2002 From: scott at tactilemedia.com (Scott Rossi) Date: Wed Mar 6 21:45:00 2002 Subject: Converting long seconds In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Recently, JohnRule at aol.com wrote: > I cannot seem to find the method for converting the long seconds (as in the > pendingMessages) to the time/date...is this not possible? Maybe this does what you want... function dateAndTime put the long seconds into D put D into T convert D to long date convert T to long time return D && T end dateAndTime Regards, Scott Rossi Creative Director Tactile Media, Multimedia & Design Email: scott at tactilemedia.com Web: www.tactilemedia.com From sarahr at genesearch.com.au Wed Mar 6 21:53:01 2002 From: sarahr at genesearch.com.au (Sarah Reichelt) Date: Wed Mar 6 21:53:01 2002 Subject: stack 0 (?) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: > On a related subject, with both versions of this I have found a *VERY* > odd problem. I have a "tabbed button" and the text for the tabs are > something like: > > "Sect. 1, 2, and 3" > "Sect. 2, and 4" > "Sect. 5, 6, and 7" > "Sect. 8" > > And I do something like this in the action for the button: > > on mouseUp > go to card the selectedtext of me of stack "FAA Form 337" > end mouseUp > > As a result i have several cards with the same names "Sect. 1, 2, and > 3", "Sect. 5, 6, and 7", etc. Now what happens is really strange > The text of the card names actually gets changed to something else > sometimes. I dont' have the exact string, because I have recently > corrected it. But it is something like: "Sect. 1/REVOLUTION01 > 2/REVOLUTION01 3/REVOLUTION01". It works for a while and then it > screws up. It looks like it is choking on the "," character. I tried a similar button and had no problems, but as a genreal rule, I think you would be better to use a menuPick handler rather than a mouseUp on menuPick pChoice go to card pChoice of stack "FAA Form 337" end menuPick > >> needs to get access to >>> the controls on it's parent stack.... >> Use "the mainStack of this stack". This gives you the name of >> the parent >> stack. Note that if you build an application with the > > I have tried this and I just can't get it to work.. ;< > > Here is my original line: > > on openStack > repeat with x = 1 to the number of lines of the cardIDs of stack "Form" > > The problem with this is it has the "Form" hardcoded and every attempt I > have done to make it non-hard coded has basically failed. Is this openStack handler in stack "Form"? If so, you can use: put the short name of this stack into myStack otherwise, if "Form" is the main stack in your file: put the mainStack of this stack into myStack Then everywhere you use "Form", use myStack instead. > I just want to make sure I understand. If I do some procedure in > "openStack" which adds fields to the form and then do a "closeStack". > The next time I open the stack for printing it will print new fields > correct? I think what you are suggesting is to not do the > "closeStack" and just let it stay open. In a "built application" will > this present a problem when the users closes my application?. I don't > want them to have the ability to save that stack, just have it exit > without saving the changes. So long as you don't want changes saved, then you can do what you say. Make the new fields in your openStack handler. Whether you have a closeStack or not is irrelevant but you want this stack to be part of your application. This makes it read-only so no changes can be saved. Cheers, Sarah From jeanne at runrev.com Wed Mar 6 22:38:01 2002 From: jeanne at runrev.com (Jeanne A. E. DeVoto) Date: Wed Mar 6 22:38:01 2002 Subject: XMCD/XFCN (about...) In-Reply-To: <33F0B58BF432D211B72200805FEFAAD905A5AC@hun-its-exs01.saic.com> Message-ID: At 9:26 AM -0800 3/6/2002, Yates, Glen wrote: >What is a "type 1" xcmd? I've written some XCMD's (several years ago for >FoxPro, but no reason why they wouldn't also work in HC), and I do not >remember such nomenclature or classes of xcmd's. Version 2.x of HyperCard supported additional external callbacks, including callbacks to create and communicate with non-stack windows ("external windows"). These additional callbacks aren't supported by the HyperCard 1.x XCMD model, and aren't supported by Revolution. (Most externals that use the extra 2.x callbacks use them to create additional windows - dialog boxes, palettes, etc. - and since those capabilities are a native part of Revolution, it's almost always possible to replace such externals with scripts, in practice.) -- Jeanne A. E. DeVoto ~ jeanne at runrev.com http://www.runrev.com/ Runtime Revolution Limited - Power to the Developer! From jeanne at runrev.com Wed Mar 6 22:39:38 2002 From: jeanne at runrev.com (Jeanne A. E. DeVoto) Date: Wed Mar 6 22:39:38 2002 Subject: Converting long seconds In-Reply-To: Message-ID: At 6:27 PM -0800 3/6/2002, JohnRule at aol.com wrote: >I cannot seem to find the method for converting the long seconds (as in the >pendingMessages) to the time/date...is this not possible? It should work just like converting any other date form, e.g. convert long seconds to long date and short time -- places resulting date and time in "it" answer "The date and time is" && it or if you have the long seconds form in a container, convert myVariable from long seconds to date and time answer "The date and time is" && myVariable -- Jeanne A. E. DeVoto ~ jeanne at runrev.com http://www.runrev.com/ Runtime Revolution Limited - Power to the Developer! From pixelbird at interisland.net Wed Mar 6 23:01:01 2002 From: pixelbird at interisland.net (Ken Norris (dialup)) Date: Wed Mar 6 23:01:01 2002 Subject: Saving Docs to other places In-Reply-To: Message-ID: on 3/6/02 3:12 PM, Geoff Canyon at gcanyon at inspiredlogic.com wrote: > At 12:21 PM -0800 3/6/02, Ken Norris wrote: >>> You can open the docs without the development environment; just double-click >>> one of the stacks with Revolution closed. >> ---------- >> This doesn't work, at least in my version. With Rev closed, I open >> "revrtfer.rev ", double-click on a stack in the field, nothing happens. It >> only works when Rev is already open. ^ \-----------<-----------<----- > | > Don't double-click revrtfer -- double click some of the stacks in | > components/help: ^ ---------- | That's what I did, see---->--------------->--------------->----------- > > revglossary.rev > REVABOUT.REV > REVHELP.REV > REVHOW.REV > revlanguage.rev > revquickref.rev > revshortcuts.rev > REVTIPS.REV > REVWHY.REV > > The language reference, for example (in revlanguage.rev) will open in > Revolution (without the development environment) and work fairly well. ---------- This is what I'm missing. How do I open Rev without the development environment? ---------- > You should be able to do this on a small standalone machine, perhaps with only > 32MB of RAM. The advantage is you don't have to do anything besides install > Revolution on that machine and double-click the stack file. ---------- Right. That's the idea. Thanks Geoff, that's good news. It sounds like a good solution. I wonder if it would work on a color classic. I have so much stuff on my two desks, I have a desk real estate deficit. Thanks so much. I'm at home tonight, but I'll load Rev on the Performa tomorrow and check it out. Best regards, Ken N. From pixelbird at interisland.net Wed Mar 6 23:43:01 2002 From: pixelbird at interisland.net (Ken Norris) Date: Wed Mar 6 23:43:01 2002 Subject: Constraining 'grab' In-Reply-To: Message-ID: on 3/6/02 7:13 AM, Geoff Canyon at gcanyon at inspiredlogic.com wrote: > The mouseRelease and mouseUp messages are mutually exclusive, and always > delivered to the object that received the mouseDown.If the the pointer is > within the button > when you let up the mouse button, then the button gets a mouseUp. If not, the > button gets a mouseRelease. ---------- I see, so you can perhaps reset a condition caused by mouseDown depending on which message it gets. Pretty clever. ---------- > If you want the button to do something when the mouse button is released, no > matter what, you can either put your code in the mouseUp handler and include > this: > > on mouseRelease > mouseUp > end mouseRelease > > Or, as I did, you can include a third handler that both the mouseUp and > mouseRelease call. ---------- Thanks for the clarification. I had a feeling it couldn't have been as I surmised. I guess I'll set up a small series of tests to check out the behaviors, timing, etc. Best regards, Ken N. From pixelbird at interisland.net Thu Mar 7 00:13:01 2002 From: pixelbird at interisland.net (Ken Norris) Date: Thu Mar 7 00:13:01 2002 Subject: Constraining 'grab' In-Reply-To: Message-ID: on 3/6/02 8:25 AM, Jacqueline Landman Gay at jacque at hyperactivesw.com wrote: > One common reason for needing to trap mouseRelease is because users change > their minds. They will mouse down on a button, realize they don't really > want to click it, and slide the mouse off the button before releasing. If > the button script has a mousedown handler that changes the environment in > any way, then trapping mouserelease will allow you to set everything back > the way it was, even though a full mouseclick never happened. ---------- Ahh...this makes lotsa sense. A couple weeks a go, I watched a potential user of an HC stack, who has a slight tremor response (the kind of thing I often have to deal with), click a button with a mouseDown handler. He realized he'd made a mistake, and in his excitedness to try to correct his mistake, he accidentally released and pressed again while dragging the mouse out of the button. In this case there was no terrible penalty or anything, but it made me realize the potential hazard. Using the two separate (mouseUp, mouseRelease) messages could have put the situation in check and maybe even performed a kind of auto-reset, as you suggest. Like I mentioned to Geoff, I guess the best thing to do is set up some test scenarios and watch the overall behavior. Thanks, Ken N. From troy at rpsystems.net Thu Mar 7 01:41:00 2002 From: troy at rpsystems.net (Troy Rollins) Date: Thu Mar 7 01:41:00 2002 Subject: Constraining 'grab' In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <02B94166-3196-11D6-8765-000393853D6C@rpsystems.net> On Thursday, March 7, 2002, at 12:24 AM, Ken Norris wrote: > Using the two separate (mouseUp, mouseRelease) messages could have put > the > situation in check and maybe even performed a kind of auto-reset, as you > suggest. > > Like I mentioned to Geoff, I guess the best thing to do is set up some > test > scenarios and watch the overall behavior. True, I suppose test scenarios can't hurt - but the fact is that mouseRelease (outside button) is a recognized convention. Virtually every professional application on all computer platforms function with this behavior. Try it on any button you have in whatever you are viewing this email in. Test if you like, but I wouldn't spend too much time or money on the subject (I imagine someone already did - 15 years ago)... :) -- Troy RPSystems www.rpsystems.net From pixelbird at interisland.net Thu Mar 7 03:46:01 2002 From: pixelbird at interisland.net (Ken Norris (dialup)) Date: Thu Mar 7 03:46:01 2002 Subject: Constraining 'grab' In-Reply-To: <02B94166-3196-11D6-8765-000393853D6C@rpsystems.net> Message-ID: on 3/6/02 10:39 PM, Troy Rollins at troy at rpsystems.net wrote: > True, I suppose test scenarios can't hurt - but the fact is that > mouseRelease (outside button) is a recognized convention. Virtually > every professional application on all computer platforms function with > this behavior. Try it on any button you have in whatever you are viewing > this email in. > > Test if you like, but I wouldn't spend too much time or money on the > subject (I imagine someone already did - 15 years ago)... :) ---------- Yes, but this response is basically nonsequetur to the subject at hand. I was questioning why have a "mouseRelease" as well as a "mouseUp" in a dragging situation. How do you release the mouse button outside an object you're dragging? By definition, it is within the dragged object, so it's a "mouseUp" situation, unless you "beat the clock" by deliberately moving the cursor so fast that the dragged object can't catch up, and are able to release the mouse button before it does. Best regards, Ken N. From scott at tactilemedia.com Thu Mar 7 04:06:01 2002 From: scott at tactilemedia.com (Scott Rossi) Date: Thu Mar 7 04:06:01 2002 Subject: Constraining 'grab' In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Recently, Ken Norris (dialup) wrote: > How do you release the mouse button outside an object you're dragging? By > definition, it is within the dragged object, so it's a "mouseUp" situation, > unless you "beat the clock" by deliberately moving the cursor so fast that > the dragged object can't catch up, and are able to release the mouse button > before it does. The above situation is quite common. This is why you must have a mouseRelease handler among your scripts. I think Geoff already explained this, but here are some more examples: 1) Like your example above, a very large or translucent object almost NEVER follows the mouse precisely; there is always a lag while the object tries to keep up with the mouse position, thus it is possible to release the mouse while it falls outside the rect of the dragged object. 2) If you drag an object but your cursor moves beyond the edge of the application window, your mouse no longer falls within the rect of the dragged object. 3) If you drag an object to the edge of a constraining region, the cursor will move outside the rect of the dragged object. The drag sample stack illustrates item 3 above. If you still have not downloaded this stack, do so. You'll probably find it useful. Regards, Scott Rossi Creative Director Tactile Media, Multimedia & Design Email: scott at tactilemedia.com Web: www.tactilemedia.com From troy at rpsystems.net Thu Mar 7 09:33:01 2002 From: troy at rpsystems.net (Troy Rollins) Date: Thu Mar 7 09:33:01 2002 Subject: Constraining 'grab' In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Thursday, March 7, 2002, at 03:57 AM, Ken Norris (dialup) wrote: > Yes, but this response is basically nonsequetur to the subject at > hand. I > was questioning why have a "mouseRelease" as well as a "mouseUp" in a > dragging situation. Gotcha. Sorry Ken, I'm the king of nonsequetur and the master of partial thread reading... ;) -- Troy RPSystems www.rpsystems.net From JohnRule at aol.com Thu Mar 7 12:40:01 2002 From: JohnRule at aol.com (JohnRule at aol.com) Date: Thu Mar 7 12:40:01 2002 Subject: Converting seconds work around? Message-ID: <2f.23834d82.29b8ff34@aol.com> >It should work just like converting any other date form, e.g. > convert long seconds to long date and short time > -- places resulting date and time in "it" > answer "The date and time is" && it >or if you have the long seconds form in a container, > convert myVariable from long seconds to date and time > answer "The date and time is" && myVariable -- >Jeanne A. E. DeVoto ~ jeanne at runrev.com >http://www.runrev.com/ >Runtime Revolution Limited - Power to the Developer! Thank you Jeanne, I could not get this to work with a variable, however. My work around was to 'get' my variable, and then everything worked: put the seconds into mySeconds get mySeconds convert it to long time If I tried "convert mySeconds to long time" it would only return the seconds. Bug? Windows 98SE Rev 1.1.1B1 JR From PMDA at earthlink.net Thu Mar 7 13:18:01 2002 From: PMDA at earthlink.net (Tariel Gogoberidze) Date: Thu Mar 7 13:18:01 2002 Subject: ODBC & Rev on a Mac References: <200203061107.GAA08411@www.runrev.com> Message-ID: <3C87AA12.DEB86FE4@earthlink.net> > From: OkayActivist Kemetian > Subject: ODBC & Rev on a Mac > I am trying to use the database manager to connect to > a Filemaker Pro 5.5. database on Mac OS 9.2. With it > comes the ODBC control panel 3.51. when i try to make > the connection in Rev's DB Manager i get the following > error: > >.......... > > i simply want to be able to add data to fields and > retrieve the data from the Filemaker Pro db using Rev. > i've looked at the help in the database manager to no > avail and the vb/rev comparison eg app is developed on > windows. > You may also use FMP web companion to add/retrieve data from FMP. BTW, this works much faster then ODBC. Generally, all you have to do is to type post "-db=employees.fp5&-lay=layoutName&-format=formats.htm&first name=Doe&last name=Jons&-find" to url "192.129.74.247" put urldecode (it) into field 1 where "192.129.74.247" = your IP address (assuming you are online, if you are not, there is another way to communicate with FMP locally) employees.fp5 = the name of your FMP database layoutName = the name of layout you are referring to formats.htm = response file that should be located in your "web" folder inside the FMP application folder and which contains names of the fields you want to retrieve after search, for example [Found_Count] [FMP-Field: grade] [FMP-Field: address] note: folder named web is a folder inside your FMP application folder where FMP looks by default for format (response) files However, it was (or still is?) a bug in LibURL that was preventing post command to work with FMP. If this bug is still a case you can use your own costume socket function to send/retrieve data, for example: ######### on mouseUp put "-db=employees.fp5&-lay=layoutName&-format=formats.htm&first name=Doe&last name=Jons&-find" into TheCall put number of chars of TheCall into Nchars put "160.129.74.247" into TheURL put "POST /employee_database/FMPro? HTTP/1.0" & CRLF into tString ## employee_database is a folder inside your web folder put "host: " &TheURL& CRLF after tString put "Content-Type: application/x-www-form-urlencoded" & CRLF after tString put "Content-Length: " & Nchars& CRLF & CRLF &TheCall after tString open socket to TheURL write tString to socket TheURL -- send your data to socket read from socket TheURL until CRLF ## confirmation from the server = "HTTP/1.0 200 OK" read from socket TheURL until CRLF & CRLF ## Returned header from.Server: ## FileMakerPro/5.0 ## MIME-Version: 1.0 ## Content-type: text/html read from socket TheURL for 100000 ## here I don't know for how many chars I should read, ## because "content-length" is not returned in the header (also the reason why LibUrl fails) ## so I picked some random number CLOSE SOCKET TheURL put urlDecode(it) into last fld end mouseUp ############### Of course this function is simplified, no error checking etc, but it should work with FMP Best regards Tariel Gogoberidze From JohnRule at aol.com Thu Mar 7 17:30:01 2002 From: JohnRule at aol.com (JohnRule at aol.com) Date: Thu Mar 7 17:30:01 2002 Subject: Deleting Stacks Message-ID: <6e.18f3df61.29b94331@aol.com> Normally I would be quite upset, but since this has happened twice already, I am in the habit of making backups of my backups every 5 minutes when I work with Revolution...since it just deleted every .rev file within it's own directory (I am not kidding). Here is the pattern: I have any main stack open. I build a distribution of another stack. I click the closebox of the distribution builder, select "No" to save. Open the stack that you just built the distribution from. Edit something, save under the same name, close an remove from memory. Build another distribution of the stack you just edited. The distribution builder opened back up with the same settings that I left it with (clicking the closebox doesn't really 'close and remove from memory'). As soon as I pressed 'Build Distribution', I heard the hard drive doing something, and then a dialog came up and said "The stack cannot be found" (or something to that effect). When I went to look for my files...they were ALL gone! I was able to save the stack I still had in memory, but like I said, I do back-ups every few minutes when I work with Rev! This happened to be on my Windows 98SE machine, but it has happened twice on my Mac OS 8.6. That was a few revisions back...I thought we had this frightening bug squished! I am now using Rev 1.1.1 B1. It also deleted my license... JR From pixelbird at interisland.net Thu Mar 7 19:02:01 2002 From: pixelbird at interisland.net (Ken Norris (dialup)) Date: Thu Mar 7 19:02:01 2002 Subject: Constraining 'grab' In-Reply-To: Message-ID: on 3/7/02 1:04 AM, Scott Rossi at scott at tactilemedia.com wrote: > Recently, Ken Norris (dialup) wrote: > >> How do you release the mouse button outside an object you're dragging? By >> definition, it is within the dragged object, so it's a "mouseUp" situation, >> unless you "beat the clock" by deliberately moving the cursor so fast that >> the dragged object can't catch up, and are able to release the mouse button >> before it does. ---------- I was just trying to clarify the actual situation. ---------- > The above situation is quite common. This is why you must have a > mouseRelease handler among your scripts. I think Geoff already explained > this, but here are some more examples: ---------- Yes, I understood that, and the standardization of the procedure. ---------- > 1) Like your example above, a very large or translucent object almost NEVER > follows the mouse precisely; there is always a lag while the object tries to > keep up with the mouse position, thus it is possible to release the mouse > while it falls outside the rect of the dragged object. > > 2) If you drag an object but your cursor moves beyond the edge of the > application window, your mouse no longer falls within the rect of the > dragged object. > > 3) If you drag an object to the edge of a constraining region, the cursor > will move outside the rect of the dragged object. ---------- Good examples, thanks. ---------- > The drag sample stack illustrates item 3 above. If you still have not > downloaded this stack, do so. You'll probably find it useful. ---------- This is the main thing. I was able to download the binary text, but I haven't been able to convert it. I've tried several methods, option clicking the link, etc., with no success. Any other suggestions? It's fast becoming an easier thing to handwrite it into a script. Best regards, Ken N. From drvaughan55 at mac.com Thu Mar 7 22:12:01 2002 From: drvaughan55 at mac.com (David Vaughan) Date: Thu Mar 7 22:12:01 2002 Subject: Constraining 'grab' In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Friday, March 8, 2002, at 11:13 , Ken Norris (dialup) wrote: snip >> The drag sample stack illustrates item 3 above. If you still have not >> downloaded this stack, do so. You'll probably find it useful. > ---------- > This is the main thing. I was able to download the binary text, but I > haven't been able to convert it. I've tried several methods, option > clicking > the link, etc., with no success. Any other suggestions? Ken I tried e-mailing it to you but evidently you have not picked it up. It is only 4KB. Is your E-mail: pixelbird at interisland.net ? Else let me know your proper address and I will send it again. regards David > > It's fast becoming an easier thing to handwrite it into a script. > > Best regards, > Ken N. > > _______________________________________________ > use-revolution mailing list > use-revolution at lists.runrev.com > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution > From jeanne at runrev.com Fri Mar 8 02:51:01 2002 From: jeanne at runrev.com (Jeanne A. E. DeVoto) Date: Fri Mar 8 02:51:01 2002 Subject: Converting seconds work around? In-Reply-To: <2f.23834d82.29b8ff34@aol.com> Message-ID: At 9:36 AM -0800 3/7/2002, JohnRule at aol.com wrote: >I could not get this to work with a variable, however. My work around was to >'get' my variable, and then everything worked: > > put the seconds into mySeconds > get mySeconds > convert it to long time > >If I tried "convert mySeconds to long time" it would only return the seconds. >Bug? Not sure. It's working for me, and I just tried it on Windows to be sure. put the seconds into mySeconds convert mySeconds to long time answer mySeconds gives me the current long time. -- Jeanne A. E. DeVoto ~ jeanne at runrev.com http://www.runrev.com/ Runtime Revolution Limited - Power to the Developer! From drvaughan55 at mac.com Fri Mar 8 03:58:01 2002 From: drvaughan55 at mac.com (David Vaughan) Date: Fri Mar 8 03:58:01 2002 Subject: Convert time in short system time to 24hr military format In-Reply-To: <20020306182256.80589.qmail@web20304.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <649EE0AC-3272-11D6-9C1E-000393598038@mac.com> Steve Not sure you got an answer to this particular question. To convert the selection from 12 to 24 hour time, first convert it to seconds with twelveHourTime true, and then set twelveHourTime false and convert the seconds back into time. regards David On Thursday, March 7, 2002, at 05:22 , Steve L wrote: > Hello, > > I have a drop down selection field that allows the > user to select a time, that is in "short system time" > format (being that most people are familiar with that > format). > > However, once selected I need to convert that time > selection into 24 hour military time format. > > I tried puting that field into a container then tried > to covert it via the twelveHourTime set to false, but > I cannot make it work. > > I believe the problem may be due to the twelveHourTime > true/false can only be used to set or convert by > reference of the system time, but not able to set or > convert a time format that is in a container. > > Any thoughts on how to due this would be greatly > apreciated. > > Thanks > > Steve L. > > __________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Try FREE Yahoo! Mail - the world's greatest free email! > http://mail.yahoo.com/ > _______________________________________________ > use-revolution mailing list > use-revolution at lists.runrev.com > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution > From DVGlasgow at aol.com Fri Mar 8 06:27:01 2002 From: DVGlasgow at aol.com (DVGlasgow at aol.com) Date: Fri Mar 8 06:27:01 2002 Subject: highlighting spoken text Message-ID: <94.22a12091.29b9f950@aol.com> In a message dated 4/3/02 11:48:25 PM, use-revolution-request at lists.runrev.com writes: << To see what it looks like, just search for "QuickTime Karaoke" in Google - you'll quickly come across loads of samples. Important disclaimer: I've never sung karaoke in my life. There are good historical reasons why I know this stuff. It's not my fault. Honest. >> Thanks Ben. A great little tip. Trouble is............ I don't know much about midi, don't know much about biol-o-gee, don't know much about the French I took......... he he. Best wishes, David Glasgow Home/ forensic assessments --> DVGlasgow Courses --> i-Psych From Jedaniels at Evercom.net Fri Mar 8 10:02:01 2002 From: Jedaniels at Evercom.net (Jerry Daniels) Date: Fri Mar 8 10:02:01 2002 Subject: Moving the cursor Message-ID: <2EE5B9AA3AEFCA4299890DCF72A83BC6C6FB@mail_nt.evercom.net> I am working on an instructional stack and it would be helpful to move the "hand" cursor around the screen to show the user where to click. I've looked everywhere and tried everything I can think of. I seem to remember us being able to do this in HyperCard. Does anyone know the answer? Best, Jerry Daniels From jrvalent at facstaff.wisc.edu Fri Mar 8 13:33:01 2002 From: jrvalent at facstaff.wisc.edu (Rand Valentine) Date: Fri Mar 8 13:33:01 2002 Subject: arrow keys in fields Message-ID: <000201c1c6cf$50258290$0701000a@RandInspiron8100> I am having a hard time getting arrow keys to work as I want in a text field. I want pressing the arrow keys to move me within the text of the field, not jump to another field. The textArrows property is presumably designed to handle this, but it doesn't seem to work properly with a grouped field-- pressing an arrow key causes a jump to another field (or a jump _somewhere_), but does move the cursor within the field. What am I doing wrong? rand valentine From tim11 at bellatlantic.net Fri Mar 8 15:06:01 2002 From: tim11 at bellatlantic.net (Tim) Date: Fri Mar 8 15:06:01 2002 Subject: arrow keys in fields In-Reply-To: <000201c1c6cf$50258290$0701000a@RandInspiron8100> Message-ID: On 3/8/02 1:30 PM, "Rand Valentine" wrote: > I am having a hard time getting arrow keys to work as I want in a text > field. I want pressing the arrow keys to move me within the text of the > field, not jump to another field. The textArrows property is presumably > designed to handle this, but it doesn't seem to work properly with a > grouped field-- pressing an arrow key causes a jump to another field (or > a jump _somewhere_), but does move the cursor within the field. What am > I doing wrong? > > rand valentine > > > _______________________________________________ > use-revolution mailing list > use-revolution at lists.runrev.com > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution Try putting the following in your startup handler: set the navigationArrows to false set the textArrows to true -- Tim From jeanne at runrev.com Fri Mar 8 15:22:01 2002 From: jeanne at runrev.com (Jeanne A. E. DeVoto) Date: Fri Mar 8 15:22:01 2002 Subject: Moving the cursor In-Reply-To: <2EE5B9AA3AEFCA4299890DCF72A83BC6C6FB@mail_nt.evercom.net> Message-ID: At 6:51 AM -0800 3/8/2002, Jerry Daniels wrote: >I am working on an instructional stack and it would be helpful to move >the "hand" cursor around the screen to show the user where to click. > >I've looked everywhere and tried everything I can think of. I seem to >remember us being able to do this in HyperCard. > >Does anyone know the answer? Check the screenMouseLoc property. -- Jeanne A. E. DeVoto ~ jeanne at runrev.com http://www.runrev.com/ Runtime Revolution Limited - Power to the Developer! From jeanne at runrev.com Fri Mar 8 15:22:12 2002 From: jeanne at runrev.com (Jeanne A. E. DeVoto) Date: Fri Mar 8 15:22:12 2002 Subject: arrow keys in fields In-Reply-To: <000201c1c6cf$50258290$0701000a@RandInspiron8100> Message-ID: At 10:30 AM -0800 3/8/2002, Rand Valentine wrote: >I am having a hard time getting arrow keys to work as I want in a text >field. I want pressing the arrow keys to move me within the text of the >field, not jump to another field. The textArrows property is presumably >designed to handle this, but it doesn't seem to work properly with a >grouped field-- pressing an arrow key causes a jump to another field (or >a jump _somewhere_), but does move the cursor within the field. What am >I doing wrong? From dsc at swcp.com Fri Mar 8 15:37:01 2002 From: dsc at swcp.com (Dar Scott) Date: Fri Mar 8 15:37:01 2002 Subject: the mouse Message-ID: (I'm new to rev and new to this list. I downloaded rev a few days ago and my son immediately found that "the mouse" does not work as described in the documentation. I wisked off a bug report. And just now discovered that it has been a topic of discussion on use-revolution; this should be a lesson to me.) I, too, think the documentation says that "the mouse" returns the state of the mouse at the call. This opinion is not informed by heritage. My opinion does not match the behavior of "the mouse". Consider this script (which does not beep)... on mouseUp repeat for 60 times put the mouse into field "mouseValue" --put the mouseClick into field "mouseClickValue" wait for 500 milliseconds end repeat end mouseUp During this 30 second test, when the mouse button is pressed the value of the field "mouseValue" changes to "down". However, when it is released, it does not change to "up". I think this is not the correct behavior. If it isn't, I have what might be a temporary workaround. If it is, then "the mouseClick" interferes and thus there still is a bug. (I also think "the mouseClick" has a problem, but it is probably a documentation problem.) If the "--" is removed for the commented line, the function "the mouse" works as I expected. (Or similar; my testing is light.) If "the mouse" is to be fixed eventually, then one can make a temporary function with the workaround. None of this is comment on whether the above handler represents good rev practice or style. Perhaps the wait should include "with messages". Dar Scott From eijkhout at cs.utk.edu Fri Mar 8 16:02:00 2002 From: eijkhout at cs.utk.edu (Victor Eijkhout) Date: Fri Mar 8 16:02:00 2002 Subject: Is there a traceback? Message-ID: (I may have asked this before, but don't remember seeing an answer) Is there a way to get a list of "through what handler calls did I get here" if I run into an error? -- Victor Eijkhout tel: 865 974 9308 (W), 865 673 6998 (H), 865 974 8296 (F) http://www.cs.utk.edu/~eijkhout/ From pixelbird at interisland.net Fri Mar 8 16:13:01 2002 From: pixelbird at interisland.net (Ken Norris (dialup)) Date: Fri Mar 8 16:13:01 2002 Subject: the mouse In-Reply-To: Message-ID: on 3/8/02 12:33 PM, Dar Scott at dsc at swcp.com wrote: > on mouseUp > repeat for 60 times > put the mouse into field "mouseValue" > --put the mouseClick into field "mouseClickValue" > wait for 500 milliseconds > end repeat > end mouseUp > > During this 30 second test, when the mouse button is pressed the > value of the field "mouseValue" changes to "down". However, when > it is released, it does not change to "up". ---------- How can it? You have locked the first value into the loop until it quits. Best regards, Ken N. From eijkhout at cs.utk.edu Fri Mar 8 16:22:01 2002 From: eijkhout at cs.utk.edu (Victor Eijkhout) Date: Fri Mar 8 16:22:01 2002 Subject: Can I edit button scripts in browse mode? Message-ID: If RunRev is in browse mode, you can still hit command-K to get to the stack script. However, for reasons that I don't get (hint: explain it to me, please) the popup there gives me only the stack scripts. To get to a popup list of button (field...) scripts I need to go out of browse mode, click a button, blah blah. (And the list of button &c scripts does not list the stack scripts. Why?) I would like to edit button scripts in browse mode without having to click 500 objects. Is that possible? If not, is there a reason for this? -- Victor Eijkhout tel: 865 974 9308 (W), 865 673 6998 (H), 865 974 8296 (F) http://www.cs.utk.edu/~eijkhout/ From eijkhout at cs.utk.edu Fri Mar 8 16:32:00 2002 From: eijkhout at cs.utk.edu (Victor Eijkhout) Date: Fri Mar 8 16:32:00 2002 Subject: Can I get the stack window over the error/properties windows? Message-ID: A simple click in the title bar doesn't do the trick. (OSX, in case it matters) -- Victor Eijkhout tel: 865 974 9308 (W), 865 673 6998 (H), 865 974 8296 (F) http://www.cs.utk.edu/~eijkhout/ From gcanyon at inspiredlogic.com Fri Mar 8 17:15:00 2002 From: gcanyon at inspiredlogic.com (Geoff Canyon) Date: Fri Mar 8 17:15:00 2002 Subject: Can I edit button scripts in browse mode? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: At 4:20 PM -0500 3/8/02, Victor Eijkhout wrote: >I would like to edit button scripts in browse mode without having to click 500 objects. Is that possible? Put the pointer over the button and hold down command-option. The script will open for editing. regards, Geoff From drvaughan55 at mac.com Fri Mar 8 17:41:01 2002 From: drvaughan55 at mac.com (David Vaughan) Date: Fri Mar 8 17:41:01 2002 Subject: Can I edit button scripts in browse mode? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <3D0CED00-32E5-11D6-9C1E-000393598038@mac.com> On Saturday, March 9, 2002, at 09:14 , Geoff Canyon wrote: > At 4:20 PM -0500 3/8/02, Victor Eijkhout wrote: >> I would like to edit button scripts in browse mode without having to >> click 500 objects. Is that possible? > > Put the pointer over the button and hold down command-option. The > script will open for editing. ...except when you first open Revolution and the stack. After you have edited anything once, then it works. cheers David > > regards, > > Geoff > > _______________________________________________ > use-revolution mailing list > use-revolution at lists.runrev.com > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution > From jphurley at jps.net Sat Mar 9 10:04:00 2002 From: jphurley at jps.net (Jim Hurley) Date: Sat Mar 9 10:04:00 2002 Subject: Initializing variables In-Reply-To: <200203081706.MAA16544@www.runrev.com> References: <200203081706.MAA16544@www.runrev.com> Message-ID: I have a list of variables, say "x,y,z" I would like to set each of these equal to zero. If I were to use the following: put "x,y,z" into tList repeat with i = 1 to 3 put 0 into item i of tList end repeat This would of course replace the list x,y,z by 0,0,0 and not achieve my objective. Instead I want x,y, and z to take on the values 0. I've tried quotes and value() without success. My actual list is very long and it would be awkward to put 0 into x put 0 into y put 0 into z Any thoughts on an efficient way of assigning values to variables within a list? Thanks, Jim Hurley From JohnRule at aol.com Sat Mar 9 10:08:01 2002 From: JohnRule at aol.com (JohnRule at aol.com) Date: Sat Mar 9 10:08:01 2002 Subject: re Converting seconds Message-ID: Sorry Jeanne, I was using the variable it to get the converted seconds. I see now that the container has the result I am looking for. Thanks, JR From janschenkel at yahoo.com Sat Mar 9 10:14:01 2002 From: janschenkel at yahoo.com (Jan Schenkel) Date: Sat Mar 9 10:14:01 2002 Subject: Initializing variables In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20020309151147.90398.qmail@web11902.mail.yahoo.com> Hi Jim, > I have a list of variables, say "x,y,z" > I would like to set each of these equal to zero. You might want to replace the script with the following: put "x,y,z" into tList repeat with i = 1 to 3 do "put 0 into" && item i of tList end repeat Best regards, Jan Schenkel "As we grow older, we grow both wiser and more foolish at the same time." (De Rochefoucald) --- Jim Hurley wrote: > I have a list of variables, say "x,y,z" > I would like to set each of these equal to zero. If > I were to use the > following: > > put "x,y,z" into tList > repeat with i = 1 to 3 > put 0 into item i of tList > end repeat > > This would of course replace the list x,y,z by 0,0,0 > and not achieve > my objective. > > Instead I want x,y, and z to take on the values 0. > I've tried quotes > and value() without success. My actual list is very > long and it would > be awkward to > > put 0 into x > put 0 into y > put 0 into z > > Any thoughts on an efficient way of assigning values > to variables > within a list? > > Thanks, > > Jim Hurley > _______________________________________________ > use-revolution mailing list > use-revolution at lists.runrev.com > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Try FREE Yahoo! Mail - the world's greatest free email! http://mail.yahoo.com/ From sbouju at bigfoot.com Sat Mar 9 11:48:01 2002 From: sbouju at bigfoot.com (Sylvain Bouju) Date: Sat Mar 9 11:48:01 2002 Subject: XMCD/XFCN (about...) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: on 6/03/02 16:38, Sylvain Bouju at sylvanbouju at libertysurf.fr wrote: > I get a brutal Revolution quitting with type 1 error message End of my problems with fullhpop XFCN: under HyperCard, I was using the old 1.7 version of this XFCN, because I don't wanted to change my scripts in order to adapt them to the new syntax of the last 2.0 version. But this last 2.0 version is working fine as well under HyperCard or Revolution :-) But now it works, I suppose that if I decide to use externals resources like XFCN, fonts, etc. in Rev/Mac scripts, I shall loose their eventual port under Windows...? -- Sylvain Bouju sbouju at bigfoot.com -- From pixelbird at interisland.net Sat Mar 9 14:16:01 2002 From: pixelbird at interisland.net (Ken Norris (dialup)) Date: Sat Mar 9 14:16:01 2002 Subject: XMCD/XFCN (about...) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: on 3/9/02 6:39 AM, Sylvain Bouju at sbouju at bigfoot.com wrote: > But now it works, I suppose that if I decide to use externals > resources like XFCN, fonts, etc. in Rev/Mac scripts, I shall > loose their eventual port under Windows...? ---------- Yup. Externals are usually platform specific. The good news is most externals are now native in RR. You'll need to discover which commands do what you want. Fonts are a matter of what's available on the machines you're writing for. There was a thread about font compatibility awhile back. Someone probably has those posts. Best regards, Ken N. From JohnRule at aol.com Sat Mar 9 14:38:01 2002 From: JohnRule at aol.com (JohnRule at aol.com) Date: Sat Mar 9 14:38:01 2002 Subject: Write to socket on Mac Message-ID: <111.e97dd1d.29bbbe20@aol.com> Is there a big timing difference between writing to a socket on a PC and Mac? I am having some problems using a stack I created on Windows...it works perfectly on my PCs (98SE) but my Macs (OS 9.1 - OS 8.6) behave much differently. I am sending a small string severy 250 milliseconds (first I make sure the socket is open of course), and I have narrowed it down to something specific on the Mac platform. It is the 'write to socket' that is taking at least 1 second to complete...there is obviously some contention there, and I was wondering if anyone knows what this is? In my troubleshooting, I pressed and held the 'Command-period' combination to stop my handler on the Mac (it was so sluggish), and I noticed that as I held the keys down, it started working! It was like I was cancelling whatever was causing the contention, but letting the script execute anyway. Can anyone explain this? Thank you, John Rule From drvaughan55 at mac.com Sat Mar 9 17:26:01 2002 From: drvaughan55 at mac.com (David Vaughan) Date: Sat Mar 9 17:26:01 2002 Subject: Initializing variables In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <62C30A43-33AC-11D6-BD04-000393598038@mac.com> On Sunday, March 10, 2002, at 02:01 , Jim Hurley wrote: > I have a list of variables, say "x,y,z" > > I would like to set each of these equal to zero. If I were to use the > following: > > put "x,y,z" into tList > repeat with i = 1 to 3 > put 0 into item i of tList > end repeat > > This would of course replace the list x,y,z by 0,0,0 and not achieve my > objective. > > Instead I want x,y, and z to take on the values 0. I've tried quotes > and value() without success. My actual list is very long and it would > be awkward to > > put 0 into x > put 0 into y > put 0 into z > > Any thoughts on an efficient way of assigning values to variables > within a list? Jim I assume you need to re-initialise the variables in your program, or else you could simply declare them as local x,y,z etc in which case they initialise to empty/zero. One method that saves a lot of coding is to keep these variables in an array, so you initialise them with repeat with i = 1 to howeverManyVars put 0 into x[i] end repeat and use them as x[1], x[2] rather than x, y etc. regards David > > Thanks, > > Jim Hurley > _______________________________________________ > use-revolution mailing list > use-revolution at lists.runrev.com > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution > From gcanyon at inspiredlogic.com Sat Mar 9 17:59:01 2002 From: gcanyon at inspiredlogic.com (Geoff Canyon) Date: Sat Mar 9 17:59:01 2002 Subject: Write to socket on Mac In-Reply-To: <111.e97dd1d.29bbbe20@aol.com> References: <111.e97dd1d.29bbbe20@aol.com> Message-ID: At 2:36 PM -0500 3/9/02, JohnRule at aol.com wrote: >In my troubleshooting, I pressed and held the 'Command-period' combination to >stop my handler on the Mac (it was so sluggish), and I noticed that as I held >the keys down, it started working! It was like I was cancelling whatever was >causing the contention, but letting the script execute anyway. Can anyone >explain this? Is it possible the Energy Saver control panel is tripping you up? Under the advanced settings, Processor Cycling can (and will) slow your Mac to a crawl. Doing anything with the mouse or keyboard lets the Mac know to come back up to speed. regards, Geoff From dsc at swcp.com Sat Mar 9 19:42:01 2002 From: dsc at swcp.com (Dar Scott) Date: Sat Mar 9 19:42:01 2002 Subject: magnify Message-ID: <224F63D1-33BF-11D6-A877-0050E4C0B205@swcp.com> In the Transcript dictionary I found the magnify property. Is there a check box, button or menu item in the development environment that changes this for me? I'm looking for an easy way to change this while editing images. Dar Scott From dsc at swcp.com Sat Mar 9 19:54:01 2002 From: dsc at swcp.com (Dar Scott) Date: Sat Mar 9 19:54:01 2002 Subject: the mouse In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Friday, March 8, 2002, at 02:13 PM, Ken Norris (dialup) wrote: >> on mouseUp >> repeat for 60 times >> put the mouse into field "mouseValue" >> --put the mouseClick into field "mouseClickValue" >> wait for 500 milliseconds >> end repeat >> end mouseUp >> >> During this 30 second test, when the mouse button is pressed the >> value of the field "mouseValue" changes to "down". However, when >> it is released, it does not change to "up". > ---------- > How can it? You have locked the first value into the loop until it > quits. Could you clarify what you mean by this? Thanks, Dar Scott From drvaughan55 at mac.com Sat Mar 9 20:33:01 2002 From: drvaughan55 at mac.com (David Vaughan) Date: Sat Mar 9 20:33:01 2002 Subject: Initializing variables In-Reply-To: <20020309151147.90398.qmail@web11902.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <7CFA3552-33C6-11D6-BD04-000393598038@mac.com> On Sunday, March 10, 2002, at 02:11 , Jan Schenkel wrote: > Hi Jim, > >> I have a list of variables, say "x,y,z" >> I would like to set each of these equal to zero. > > You might want to replace the script with the > following: > > put "x,y,z" into tList > repeat with i = 1 to 3 > do "put 0 into" && item i of tList > end repeat Jim & Jan A faster approach along the same lines (faster because there is less coding to put variables into a list) might be to get the list via the localNames() function. and remove the ones you do _not_ want to initialise... cheers David > > Best regards, > > Jan Schenkel > > "As we grow older, we grow both wiser and more foolish > at the same time." (De Rochefoucald) > From jeanne at runrev.com Sun Mar 10 05:12:01 2002 From: jeanne at runrev.com (Jeanne A. E. DeVoto) Date: Sun Mar 10 05:12:01 2002 Subject: magnify In-Reply-To: <224F63D1-33BF-11D6-A877-0050E4C0B205@swcp.com> Message-ID: At 4:38 PM -0800 3/9/2002, Dar Scott wrote: >In the Transcript dictionary I found the magnify property. Is >there a check box, button or menu item in the development >environment that changes this for me? I'm looking for an easy way >to change this while editing images. You can command-click the point you want to magnify to bring up the Magnify window centered there. -- Jeanne A. E. DeVoto ~ jeanne at runrev.com http://www.runrev.com/ Runtime Revolution Limited - Power to the Developer! From cowhead at ztv.ne.jp Sun Mar 10 11:50:01 2002 From: cowhead at ztv.ne.jp (cowhead) Date: Sun Mar 10 11:50:01 2002 Subject: Initializing variables Message-ID: <3C8B8EF2.FA583B3C@ztv.ne.jp> When you have a long list of variables, it might be easier to try an array instead. For example: on mouseUp global myVar repeat with i = 1 to 1000 put 0 into myVar[i] end repeat end mouseUp So, instead of calling your variables x,y,z etc...you can simply call them myVar[1],myVar[2], etc good luck, mark in Japan Jim wrote: I have a list of variables, say "x,y,z" > I would like to set each of these equal to zero. If > I were to use the > following: > > put "x,y,z" into tList > repeat with i = 1 to 3 > put 0 into item i of tList > end repeat From ambassador at FourthWorld.com Sun Mar 10 14:03:01 2002 From: ambassador at FourthWorld.com (Richard Gaskin) Date: Sun Mar 10 14:03:01 2002 Subject: Scanning machines on a network In-Reply-To: <200203101706.MAA18273@www.runrev.com> Message-ID: A lot of software packages scan the local network to see if other copies of the software may be running with the same serial number. I've thought of many ways to accomplish this, but all of them seem slow and inefficient. How is this done? -- Richard Gaskin Fourth World Media Corporation Custom Software and Web Development for All Major Platforms Developer of WebMerge 1.9: Publish any Database on Any Site ___________________________________________________________ Ambassador at FourthWorld.com http://www.FourthWorld.com Tel: 323-225-3717 AIM: FourthWorldInc From pixelbird at interisland.net Sun Mar 10 15:40:01 2002 From: pixelbird at interisland.net (Ken Norris (dialup)) Date: Sun Mar 10 15:40:01 2002 Subject: the mouse In-Reply-To: Message-ID: on 3/9/02 4:51 PM, Dar Scott at dsc at swcp.com wrote: > > On Friday, March 8, 2002, at 02:13 PM, Ken Norris (dialup) wrote: > >>> on mouseUp >>> repeat for 60 times >>> put the mouse into field "mouseValue" >>> --put the mouseClick into field "mouseClickValue" >>> wait for 500 milliseconds >>> end repeat >>> end mouseUp >>> >>> During this 30 second test, when the mouse button is pressed the >>> value of the field "mouseValue" changes to "down". However, when >>> it is released, it does not change to "up". >> ---------- >> How can it? You have locked the first value into the loop until it >> quits. > > Could you clarify what you mean by this? ---------- on mouseUp -- sends the "up" message -once- to the object whenever the -- button is released, and takes priority for the object repeat 60 times -- begins a 60 cycle loop put the mouse into field "mouseValue" -- puts the very next state -- ('down', of course) of the mouse it catches in the loop into the -- field "mouseValue". -- put the mouseClick into field "mouseClickValue" -- commented line -- does nothing -- BUT, if you UNcomment this line it will put the -- up state, which is the last half of a mouseClick event message, -- into the field "mouseClickValue", but probably also sends it -- (mouseUp) to the object again wait 500 milliseconds -- stops _all_ messages for 500 -- milliseconds end repeat end mouseUp You are trying to catch two different mouse messages in a mouse handler. You're lucky it's not stalling out or giving you an error. Best regards, Ken N. From dsc at swcp.com Sun Mar 10 15:58:00 2002 From: dsc at swcp.com (Dar Scott) Date: Sun Mar 10 15:58:00 2002 Subject: Scanning machines on a network In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <009245DC-3469-11D6-BB50-0050E4C0B205@swcp.com> On Sunday, March 10, 2002, at 12:00 PM, Richard Gaskin wrote: > A lot of software packages scan the local network to see if other > copies of > the software may be running with the same serial number. > > I've thought of many ways to accomplish this, but all of them seem > slow and > inefficient. Here is an idea. Invert the idea of scanning. Each copy UDP Broadcasts its serial number at startup and every minute or so to a obscure port of your choosing, eg. 255.255.255.255:47011. Each copy also listens on that port. If a serial number comes in from a different computer that matches that of the listening copy, there's a serial number clash. (I have no idea whether this can be done in Revolution; I'm new to Revolution.) (If you need to know at the start of execution, add a poll code to the datagram.) > How is this done? Well. I've done quite a bit of TCP/IP programming, but have never done this, so take this with a grain of salt. Folks who have solved the problem may have tried and rejected this idea long ago. Dar Scott From dafnin at netmedia.net.il Sun Mar 10 16:13:10 2002 From: dafnin at netmedia.net.il (Nadav Dafni) Date: Sun Mar 10 16:13:10 2002 Subject: remove me Message-ID: <009101c1c813$44baa120$961e73c0@nadav> remove me, please -----Original Message----- From: Jim Hurley To: use-revolution at lists.runrev.com Date: Saturday, March 09, 2002 5:03 PM Subject: Initializing variables I have a list of variables, say "x,y,z" I would like to set each of these equal to zero. If I were to use the following: put "x,y,z" into tList repeat with i = 1 to 3 put 0 into item i of tList end repeat This would of course replace the list x,y,z by 0,0,0 and not achieve my objective. Instead I want x,y, and z to take on the values 0. I've tried quotes and value() without success. My actual list is very long and it would be awkward to put 0 into x put 0 into y put 0 into z Any thoughts on an efficient way of assigning values to variables within a list? Thanks, Jim Hurley _______________________________________________ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution at lists.runrev.com http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution From michael at GreppyDreppies.com Sun Mar 10 20:05:00 2002 From: michael at GreppyDreppies.com (Michael D Mays) Date: Sun Mar 10 20:05:00 2002 Subject: revShowPrintDialog: Cancel print and other things In-Reply-To: <009101c1c813$44baa120$961e73c0@nadav> Message-ID: Hi, How do I cancel a print job when using revPrintText or revPrintFIeld? I use revShowPrintDialog true,true and I can cancel the printing if I select "Cancel" during page setup but if I click "Cancel" during dialog the job still prints. Also, how persistent and what is the scope of the showPageSetup and showPrint parameters of revShowPrintDialog? When I comment out the rSPD command, the last sPS and sP parameters used are still in effect. Thanks, michael From dsc at swcp.com Mon Mar 11 02:29:01 2002 From: dsc at swcp.com (Dar Scott) Date: Mon Mar 11 02:29:01 2002 Subject: Scanning machines on a network In-Reply-To: <009245DC-3469-11D6-BB50-0050E4C0B205@swcp.com> Message-ID: <23CDB0DE-34C1-11D6-BB50-0050E4C0B205@swcp.com> On Sunday, March 10, 2002, at 01:54 PM, Dar Scott wrote: > On Sunday, March 10, 2002, at 12:00 PM, Richard Gaskin wrote: >> A lot of software packages scan the local network to see if other >> copies of >> the software may be running with the same serial number. >> >> I've thought of many ways to accomplish this, but all of them >> seem slow and >> inefficient. > > Here is an idea. Invert the idea of scanning. Each copy UDP > Broadcasts its serial number at startup and every minute or so to > a obscure port of your choosing, eg. 255.255.255.255:47011. Each > copy also listens on that port. If a serial number comes in from > a different computer that matches that of the listening copy, > there's a serial number clash. My tinkering with Revolution has gotten to UDP. I have been able get UDP working, so I think the above can be done in Revolution. However, I don't have a way to get the local IP, yet. (Receiving UDP is weird; at least it is the way I did it.) Dar Scott From drjohn at flash.net Mon Mar 11 04:19:00 2002 From: drjohn at flash.net (John R. Brauer) Date: Mon Mar 11 04:19:00 2002 Subject: use-revolution digest, Vol 1 #253 - 15 msgs In-Reply-To: <200203091705.MAA32217@www.runrev.com> Message-ID: I find that whenever I use the eraser tool in the paint palette, Rev 1.1 or rev 1.1.1b crashes immediately. Is anyone else finding this? Is there a workaround? I am trying to edit a converted HC stack. Sincerely, John R. Brauer, Psy.D. Clinical Psychologist From mdmays at airmail.net Mon Mar 11 04:19:34 2002 From: mdmays at airmail.net (Michael D Mays) Date: Mon Mar 11 04:19:34 2002 Subject: revShowPrintDialog: Cancel print and other things In-Reply-To: <009101c1c813$44baa120$961e73c0@nadav> Message-ID: Hi, How do I cancel a print job when using revPrintText or revPrintFIeld? I use revShowPrintDialog true,true and I can cancel the printing if I select "Cancel" during page setup but if I click "Cancel" during dialog the job still prints. Also, how persistent and what is the scope of the showPageSetup and showPrint parameters of revShowPrintDialog? When I comment out the rSPD command, the last sPS and sP parameters used are still in effect. Thanks, michael From jan.decroos at groepvanroey.be Mon Mar 11 05:10:01 2002 From: jan.decroos at groepvanroey.be (Jan Decroos) Date: Mon Mar 11 05:10:01 2002 Subject: Initializing variables In-Reply-To: <200203091711.MAA32693@www.runrev.com> References: <200203091711.MAA32693@www.runrev.com> Message-ID: Maybe this can help: we use next handler to initailize variables : PutInto youValue,"destinationKinds","destinationNames" with destinationKinds : comma separated list of destination kinds "g" : global, "c" : card field, "b" or "f" background field, "c" : card field empty items : repeat previous one destinationNames : comma separated list of of short names of the destinations example : PutInto empty,"g,c,,b","gName1,cfield1,cfield2,bfield1" equals to put empty into gName1 -- gName1 = globalName put empty into card field "cfield1" put empty into card field "cfield2" put empty into bg field "bfield1" PutInto 5,"b","bfield1,bfield2,bfield3,bfield4,bfield5,bfield6" equals to put 5 into field "bfield1" put 5 into field "bfield2" put 5 into field "bfield3" put 5 into field "bfield4" put 5 into field "bfield5" put 5 into field "bfield6" here's the handler (in DEV, so AS IS...) : (store it in your stack script, or in the stack script of a 'stackinuse') ************** on PutInto pValue, pKinds, pNames put the HCAddressing of this stack into lHCAddr set the HCAddressing of this stack to false try put 0 into xx repeat for each item lName in pNames add 1 to xx put char 1 of item xx of pKinds into lKind if lKind = "" then put lPrevKind into lKind if lKind = "g" then do "global "&(lName)&CR&"put pValue into "&lName else if lKind = "c" or lKind = "b" or lKind = "f" then put pValue into fld lName put lKind into lPrevKind end repeat catch lMess answer "PutInto : Cannot handle "&lName&" !" exit to top finally set the HCAddressing of this stack to lHCAddr end try end PutInto *************** Hope this helps... Jan From dsc at swcp.com Mon Mar 11 12:10:01 2002 From: dsc at swcp.com (Dar Scott) Date: Mon Mar 11 12:10:01 2002 Subject: mouse messages to invisible controls Message-ID: <4EEA95B2-3512-11D6-B7A8-0050E4C0B205@swcp.com> My young son is programming with Revolution. He has card size images. He wants to click on/over these and get different behavior depending on the zone. He has tried invisible buttons and graphics but these don't seem to get mouseUp messages. I haven't touched Hypercard for maybe a decade, it seems. But, I thought there was a way to do this. Any suggestions? Dar Scott Revolution Newbie From devin_asay at byu.edu Mon Mar 11 13:30:01 2002 From: devin_asay at byu.edu (Devin Asay) Date: Mon Mar 11 13:30:01 2002 Subject: mouse messages to invisible controls In-Reply-To: <4EEA95B2-3512-11D6-B7A8-0050E4C0B205@swcp.com> References: <4EEA95B2-3512-11D6-B7A8-0050E4C0B205@swcp.com> Message-ID: >My young son is programming with Revolution. He has card size >images. He wants to click on/over these and get different behavior >depending on the zone. He has tried invisible buttons and graphics >but these don't seem to get mouseUp messages. > >I haven't touched Hypercard for maybe a decade, it seems. But, I >thought there was a way to do this. > >Any suggestions? No control will receive messages if it is invisible (i.e. the visible property = false). The way to do this is to make sure the opaque property is false and the showBorder property is also false. If these things are set the object is still visible, but there are no elements of it that are visible. Devin -- Devin Asay Humanities Research Center Brigham Young University From k_major at osnabrueck.netsurf.de Mon Mar 11 13:42:01 2002 From: k_major at osnabrueck.netsurf.de (Klaus Major) Date: Mon Mar 11 13:42:01 2002 Subject: mouse messages to invisible controls In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <689F1D28-351F-11D6-812D-000A27B49A96@osnabrueck.netsurf.de> HI Devin, >> My young son is programming with Revolution. He has card size >> images. He wants to click on/over these and get different behavior >> depending on the zone. He has tried invisible buttons and graphics >> but these don't seem to get mouseUp messages. >> >> I haven't touched Hypercard for maybe a decade, it seems. But, I >> thought there was a way to do this. >> >> Any suggestions? > > No control will receive messages if it is invisible (i.e. the visible > property = false). The way to do this is to make sure the opaque > property is false and the showBorder property is also false. If these > things are set the object is still visible, but there are no elements > of it that are visible. > > Devin > -- Devin Asay invisible buttons are not the solution, since they are invisible for the mouse, too :-( But :-D : Create your buttons, script them, place them and then, TADA, in the color-palette set the ink of them to "noop". This makes these buttons (and everything else) invisible only for our eyes and not for the mouse ;-) I have been doing things like this for a long time, works wonderful... Hope this helps... Regards Klaus Major k_major at osnabrueck.netsurf.de From pixelbird at interisland.net Mon Mar 11 14:32:00 2002 From: pixelbird at interisland.net (Ken Norris (dialup)) Date: Mon Mar 11 14:32:00 2002 Subject: mouse messages to invisible controls In-Reply-To: <4EEA95B2-3512-11D6-B7A8-0050E4C0B205@swcp.com> Message-ID: on 3/11/02 9:06 AM, Dar Scott at dsc at swcp.com wrote: > My young son is programming with Revolution. He has card size > images. He wants to click on/over these and get different behavior > depending on the zone. He has tried invisible buttons and graphics > but these don't seem to get mouseUp messages. > > I haven't touched Hypercard for maybe a decade, it seems. But, I > thought there was a way to do this. ---------- This is wonderful news! Good for him! There are several approaches: 1) Make your objects (controls) and their 'parts' transparent. They're still there and can interact with the mouse, but you see right through them, like pieces of cellophane. I use transparent buttons and fields quite often. Sometimes I make them so I can see them for positioning and alignment, then set their opaque properties to false. 2) Set zone boundaries in script variables and use mouseMove to tell if you're within a certain zone. This is more difficult and you can't do much with the mouse except in the card or image domain. You can constrain mouse activity (but not the cursor itself). 3) Build your full screen image out of borderless smaller images, like puzzle pieces. This will take some time, but it's a wonderful way to do it because of the scripting manipulation possibilities. Something to think about. Best regards, Ken N. From dsc at swcp.com Mon Mar 11 14:40:01 2002 From: dsc at swcp.com (Dar Scott) Date: Mon Mar 11 14:40:01 2002 Subject: mouse messages to invisible controls In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <3FC26394-3527-11D6-B7A8-0050E4C0B205@swcp.com> On Monday, March 11, 2002, at 11:25 AM, Devin Asay wrote: > The way to do this is to make sure the opaque property is false > and the showBorder property is also false. And, as we discovered, the check box for "highlight when clicked" on the button tab needs to be unchecked. I'm not sure what property this controls. Thanks, Devin. I'm not sure how we missed this. Maybe we had gone on to graphics before trying opaque. Dar Scott (and son) From csilverm at acs.ryerson.ca Mon Mar 11 15:41:00 2002 From: csilverm at acs.ryerson.ca (Charles Silverman) Date: Mon Mar 11 15:41:00 2002 Subject: Quicktime flickers Message-ID: If I place a quicktime movie into a group which displays across multiple card in Mac OS 9, the quicktime movie loses its picture for a moment when going to another card. On OS 10 the flicker behavior doesn't happen. Is there a way to keep this from happening in OS 9.x ? Thanks, Charles Silverman From dsc at swcp.com Mon Mar 11 16:42:01 2002 From: dsc at swcp.com (Dar Scott) Date: Mon Mar 11 16:42:01 2002 Subject: mouse messages to invisible controls In-Reply-To: <689F1D28-351F-11D6-812D-000A27B49A96@osnabrueck.netsurf.de> Message-ID: <59CAF509-3538-11D6-B7A8-0050E4C0B205@swcp.com> On Monday, March 11, 2002, at 11:40 AM, Klaus Major wrote: > Create your buttons, script them, place them and then, TADA, in > the color-palette > set the ink of them to "noop". I like this one, too. The color-palette? Is that the window with "properties (color)" in the title bar? I don't see where to set the ink. We might try this with other controls, such as a polygon and see if that works there, too. Thanks! Dar Scott From dsc at swcp.com Mon Mar 11 16:48:01 2002 From: dsc at swcp.com (Dar Scott) Date: Mon Mar 11 16:48:01 2002 Subject: mouse messages to invisible controls In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <2671EE30-3539-11D6-B7A8-0050E4C0B205@swcp.com> On Monday, March 11, 2002, at 12:32 PM, Ken Norris (dialup) wrote: > 3) Build your full screen image out of borderless smaller images, like > puzzle pieces. This will take some time, but it's a wonderful way > to do it > because of the scripting manipulation possibilities. Something to think > about. This is much like what I recommended to him. Only, I recommended layered pieces instead of puzzle pieces, but the idea is the same. Thanks, Dar From sarahr at genesearch.com.au Mon Mar 11 20:11:01 2002 From: sarahr at genesearch.com.au (Sarah Reichelt) Date: Mon Mar 11 20:11:01 2002 Subject: Scanning machines on a network In-Reply-To: Message-ID: > > My tinkering with Revolution has gotten to UDP. I have been able > get UDP working, so I think the above can be done in Revolution. > However, I don't have a way to get the local IP, yet. (Receiving > UDP is weird; at least it is the way I did it.) > Here is a script to get your local IP address and store it in a field: local testSock on mouseUp put line 1 of hostnametoaddress("yahoo.com")& ":80|testSocket" \ into testSock open socket to testSock with message "socketReady" end mouseUp on socketReady pSock put hostAddress(pSock) into fld "Local IP address" close socket testSock end socketReady Cheers, Sarah From JamesHBeckmann at aol.com Mon Mar 11 20:50:01 2002 From: JamesHBeckmann at aol.com (JamesHBeckmann at aol.com) Date: Mon Mar 11 20:50:01 2002 Subject: Extract a substack Message-ID: <7c.244aaee4.29beb842@aol.com> In a main stack I have created several substacks. How do I extract these stacks from the main stack, or how do I reference these stacks from a different stack? Jim From JamesHBeckmann at aol.com Mon Mar 11 20:55:01 2002 From: JamesHBeckmann at aol.com (JamesHBeckmann at aol.com) Date: Mon Mar 11 20:55:01 2002 Subject: Program Linking Message-ID: Is Revolution capable of program linking, is there a "answer program" command, that works on Macs. Obviously wouldn't between PC and Mac as they don't like each other. Jim From Zzyzx at Relia.Net Mon Mar 11 22:12:01 2002 From: Zzyzx at Relia.Net (Josh Dye) Date: Mon Mar 11 22:12:01 2002 Subject: Download File? References: <2671EE30-3539-11D6-B7A8-0050E4C0B205@swcp.com> Message-ID: <001301c1c973$6bab8770$6a00a8c0@xhead> Hello, I was wondering if there is a way so a program will download a file, and put it to a certian location? I need to have it download a file, and put it to like, the C: drive or something of that sort. It should download it from a website... So, anything would be nice. Thanks! - Josh Dye From shaosean at unitz.ca Tue Mar 12 00:54:01 2002 From: shaosean at unitz.ca (Shao Sean) Date: Tue Mar 12 00:54:01 2002 Subject: Download File? References: <2671EE30-3539-11D6-B7A8-0050E4C0B205@swcp.com> <001301c1c973$6bab8770$6a00a8c0@xhead> Message-ID: <000f01c1c989$d2746330$88b15bd1@lanfear> take a look at the "specialFolderPath" function.. ----- Original Message ----- > I was wondering if there is a way so a program will download a file, and > put it to a certian location? I need to have it download a file, and put it > to like, the C: drive or something of that sort. It should download it from > a website... So, anything would be nice. Thanks! From sjoerdoptland at mac.com Tue Mar 12 02:07:01 2002 From: sjoerdoptland at mac.com (Sjoerd Op 't Land) Date: Tue Mar 12 02:07:01 2002 Subject: Download File? In-Reply-To: <001301c1c973$6bab8770$6a00a8c0@xhead> Message-ID: Josh Dye wrote/ schreef: > Hello, > I was wondering if there is a way so a program will download a file, and > put it to a certian location? I need to have it download a file, and put it > to like, the C: drive or something of that sort. It should download it from > a website... So, anything would be nice. Thanks! set itemDel to "/" ask "What url?" with "http://www.metacard.com/stacks/echo.mt" put it into wwwUrl ask file "Where to put it?" with item -1 of wwwUrl put it into fileUrl put url it into url ("file:" & fileUrl) > - Josh Dye Regards, / Groeten, Sjoerd From hellomorld at caramail.com Tue Mar 12 05:17:01 2002 From: hellomorld at caramail.com (hellomorld at caramail.com) Date: Tue Mar 12 05:17:01 2002 Subject: Problem : Standalone, link and network Message-ID: <3C8DC9AE.52DD487E@caramail.com> hello, With WinMe : 1/ create a standalone with substacks as individual file 2/ create a link of the standalone, and move it in parent folder 3/ share the parent folder in a network 4/ Open the standalone from an other computer by using the "link file" -- Substack does not open 5/ Open the standalone from an other computer by using the standalone -- this works 6/ Open the standalone from the computer which contains the standalone by using the "link file" -- this works Revolution bug, Windows Bug ? How put several Standalones in the same folder (there can be only one data folder)? Thanks and sorry for my english From benr_mc at cogapp.com Tue Mar 12 05:32:01 2002 From: benr_mc at cogapp.com (Ben Rubinstein) Date: Tue Mar 12 05:32:01 2002 Subject: Program Linking In-Reply-To: Message-ID: on 12/3/02 1:52 AM, JamesHBeckmann at aol.com at JamesHBeckmann at aol.com wrote: > Is Revolution capable of program linking, is there a "answer program" > command, that works on Macs. Obviously wouldn't between PC and Mac as they > don't like each other. Yes, No, and No (but not because they don't like each other) - in that order. Yes Revolution can do program linking on the Mac - on the Mac this is done through AppleScript. No, there isn't an answer program command - it's needed, and has been requested - I don't know if Rev/MC have put it anywhere on the to-do list though. If you just want to link to a program on the same Mac, you can get a list of the processes, and present this list to the user - bit clumsy but it works; but if you want the user to be able to select a program running on another Mac, you're stuck. No it wouldn't work between PC and Mac; but only because they have two different systems. On the Mac you use AppleScript for program linking; on Windows you use COM, or possibly DDE/OLE. I don't know to what extent Revolution supports any of this. Ben Rubinstein | Email: benr_mc at cogapp.com Cognitive Applications Ltd | Phone: +44 (0)1273-821600 http://www.cogapp.com | Fax : +44 (0)1273-728866 From michael at GreppyDreppies.com Tue Mar 12 06:32:01 2002 From: michael at GreppyDreppies.com (Michael D Mays) Date: Tue Mar 12 06:32:01 2002 Subject: revShowPrintDialog: Cancel print and other things In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Hi again, I guess the job is canceling. But my printer is feeding a blank sheet of paper when it does. Sorry about leaving that bit of info out. I wasn't printing out any large jobs and was just listening to printer spit out that blank sheet in the other office. It would be nice not to have that blank sheet print out when the user clicks cancel though. Is anyone else seeing this? michael Michael D Mays of mdmays at airmail.net wrote the following on 3/10/02 6:08 PM > Hi, > > How do I cancel a print job when using revPrintText or revPrintFIeld? > > I use > revShowPrintDialog true,true > and I can cancel the printing if I select "Cancel" during page setup but if > I click "Cancel" during dialog the job still prints. > > Also, how persistent and what is the scope of the showPageSetup and > showPrint parameters of revShowPrintDialog? When I comment out the rSPD > command, the last sPS and sP parameters used are still in effect. > > Thanks, > michael > > _______________________________________________ > use-revolution mailing list > use-revolution at lists.runrev.com > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution From Stgecft at aol.com Tue Mar 12 06:37:01 2002 From: Stgecft at aol.com (Stgecft at aol.com) Date: Tue Mar 12 06:37:01 2002 Subject: Scanning machines on a network Message-ID: <128.de13645.29bf41b8@aol.com> Thank you Sarah, I have been reading along for weeks for this info. When I posed the question I did not get an answer. Thank you so much, now I can move on. Randy Kent Stagecraft, Inc. From kmajor at metascape.org Tue Mar 12 07:33:01 2002 From: kmajor at metascape.org (Klaus Major) Date: Tue Mar 12 07:33:01 2002 Subject: Download File? In-Reply-To: <001301c1c973$6bab8770$6a00a8c0@xhead> Message-ID: Hi Josh, > Hello, > I was wondering if there is a way so a program will download a > file, and > put it to a certian location? I need to have it download a file, and > put it > to like, the C: drive or something of that sort. It should download it > from > a website... So, anything would be nice. Thanks! > > > - Josh Dye check the "load" command in the help... Regards Klaus Major kmajor at metascape.org From Stgecft at aol.com Tue Mar 12 10:51:01 2002 From: Stgecft at aol.com (Stgecft at aol.com) Date: Tue Mar 12 10:51:01 2002 Subject: MySQL Message-ID: <15f.a343f8b.29bf7d3e@aol.com> I've been tring to connect to a MySQL database on my Mac. The file is in my eetentions file. I've entered my IP addres, Database name, my name and my password into the Database Manager. When I press the "New connection database" button, I get a message "Can't connect to MySQL server on 'xxx.xxx.xxx.xxx' (61)" Can someone guide me through this. Randy Kent From rcozens at pon.net Tue Mar 12 11:03:01 2002 From: rcozens at pon.net (Rob Cozens) Date: Tue Mar 12 11:03:01 2002 Subject: Problem : Standalone, link and network In-Reply-To: <3C8DC9AE.52DD487E@caramail.com> Message-ID: >1/ create a standalone with substacks as individual file >2/ create a link of the standalone, and move it in parent folder >3/ share the parent folder in a network >4/ Open the standalone from an other computer by using the "link file" >-- Substack does not open Just a guess: Try creating links for the substacks as well as the standalone. Rob Cozens CCW, Serendipity Software Company http://www.oenolog.com/who.htm "And I, which was two fooles, do so grow three; Who are a little wise, the best fooles bee." from "The Triple Foole" by John Donne (1572-1631) From BradAllen at mac.com Tue Mar 12 12:34:01 2002 From: BradAllen at mac.com (Brad Allen) Date: Tue Mar 12 12:34:01 2002 Subject: Applescript variable contents Message-ID: I want to run a series of Applescripts from within a Rev standalone and have the variable values carry across from one Applescript to another. Is there a way to capture Applescript variable values into Revolution and then back to Applescript? (other than using a text file as an intermediary!) The overall goal here is to use Revolution to provide a window and a progress bar to a running Applescript. I'm also trying to figure out how to launch an app (the Apple System Profiler) in a hidden way so the user doesn't have to see it. Thanks! From ambassador at FourthWorld.com Tue Mar 12 13:05:01 2002 From: ambassador at FourthWorld.com (Richard Gaskin) Date: Tue Mar 12 13:05:01 2002 Subject: Program Linking In-Reply-To: <200203121234.HAA18971@www.runrev.com> Message-ID: James Beckmann asks: > Is Revolution capable of program linking, is there a "answer program" > command, that works on Macs. Obviously wouldn't between PC and Mac as they > don't like each other. The OSes get along fine. It's Bill and Steve who don't like each other. ;) If you're linking between two custom apps built with Rev you can use TCP sockets. They're platform-independent, simpler to work with than Apple events, and arguably more flexible. If you need your app to communicate with another Mac app using AE specifically, you can probably do just about anything you'd need with either Rev's built-in support for 'dosc' ("do script", for commands) and 'eval' ("evaluate", for functions) Apple events, or with AppleScript. Other programmers have told me that the "answer program" API is screwy under OS 9, which may be why it's not more widely supported. I don't recall seeing it in anything but SuperCard, HyperCard, and an old stats graphing program called Spyglass many years ago, and if there's a newer app that provides this I'd be interesting in learning about it. In the absence of "answer program", does "tell " in AS do what you need? As for any Windows equivalent to AE/AS, I'm afraid MS' fickle nature has caught up with them: somewhere between telling everyone to implement DDE and then rescinding that in favor of COM which was then deprecated to whatever else and now seems to be supplanted with VBS, the Wintel platform does not seem to have a single consistent method for inter-process communication (someone please tell me this is wrong). DDE seems to be what MS themselves have relied on most, even long after they told everyone else to back away from it, but the XP specs make the deprecation of DDE explicit. -- Richard Gaskin Fourth World Media Corporation Custom Software and Web Development for All Major Platforms Developer of WebMerge 1.9: Publish any Database on Any Site ___________________________________________________________ Ambassador at FourthWorld.com http://www.FourthWorld.com Tel: 323-225-3717 AIM: FourthWorldInc From pixelbird at interisland.net Tue Mar 12 13:10:01 2002 From: pixelbird at interisland.net (Ken Norris (dialup)) Date: Tue Mar 12 13:10:01 2002 Subject: Program Linking In-Reply-To: Message-ID: on 3/12/02 2:30 AM, Ben Rubinstein at benr_mc at cogapp.com wrote: > No it wouldn't work between PC and Mac; but only because they have two > different systems. On the Mac you use AppleScript for program linking; on > Windows you use COM, or possibly DDE/OLE. I don't know to what extent > Revolution supports any of this. ---------- HyperCard has an 'answer file' command that should do this on a Mac. I don't have Rev open, but are you saying it doesn't support that command? Also, I seem to remember something a month or two ago, about allowing Rev on any platform being able to query what platform it is connected to, then you can use if/then statements to to decide on syntax changes, if available and necessary. But I could easily be wrong about that, and don't remember the results of the discussion. Best regards, Ken N. From terry at discovery.nl Tue Mar 12 14:11:01 2002 From: terry at discovery.nl (Terry Vogelaar) Date: Tue Mar 12 14:11:01 2002 Subject: Applescript variable contents In-Reply-To: Message-ID: > I want to run a series of Applescripts from within a Rev standalone > and have the variable values carry across from one Applescript to > another. Is there a way to capture Applescript variable values into > Revolution and then back to Applescript? (other than using a text > file as an intermediary!) Maybe you can use this (sorry for the reposting of this ): The basic idea is that you store the AS-functions in a separate file; a normal AppleScript-file. No custom props or fields needed, so you don't have to work with a copy of the script, but you can work with the original, which saves time when the AppleScript function is still in development. Then you must know the path and the name of the function in the file. You call it with: get AppleScriptFunction("nameOfFunction", "path:to:file", 1, 2, "three", "four") Mind that on Mac OS classic you need to use colons in the path (2nd param), while on Mac OS X you must use slashes. Then in the stack-script you can put: function AppleScriptFunction aFun, aFile put "set theScript to load script (alias ""e&aFile"e&")"&return& \ "tell theScript to "&aFun&"(" into ASfunc if paramcount() > 2 then repeat with e = 3 to paramcount() put param(e) into f if param(e) is a number then put f & "," after ASfunc else put quote & f & quote & "," after ASfunc end if end repeat else put " " after ASfunc end if put ")" into last char of ASfunc do ASfunc as applescript end AppleScriptFunction Now you can call any function with any number of parameters. The value that is returned by the AppleScript-function is returned by "AppleScriptFunction" as well. > The overall goal here is to use Revolution to provide a window and a > progress bar to a running Applescript. I'm also trying to figure out > how to launch an app (the Apple System Profiler) in a hidden way so > the user doesn't have to see it. AppleScript only returns something to RunRev when a function is completely finished. So you can let the progress bar shift when a function is completed, but probably not when only one long AppleScript function is called. I don't know if you can hide an app (probably you can, but I don't know how). But as long as you don't use 'activate', it stays in the background. Terry From dsc at swcp.com Tue Mar 12 15:49:01 2002 From: dsc at swcp.com (Dar Scott) Date: Tue Mar 12 15:49:01 2002 Subject: Program Linking In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <08B4A5B2-35FA-11D6-A263-0050E4C0B205@swcp.com> On Tuesday, March 12, 2002, at 11:01 AM, Richard Gaskin wrote: > If you're linking between two custom apps built with Rev you can > use TCP > sockets. They're platform-independent, simpler to work with than Apple > events, and arguably more flexible. I concur. I'm too new to Revolution to comment specifically. However, I have have been happy in using TCP/IP for inter-process communication (IPC) in general. It is platform independent and does not care whether the processes are on the same computer, are on a local network or are far away. So far, I see no reason to limit this to TCP; there may be good uses for UDP in IPC. (In another world I use a robust communications layer over UDP for IPC.) Dar Scott From zelston at aol.com Tue Mar 12 16:58:01 2002 From: zelston at aol.com (Zac Elston) Date: Tue Mar 12 16:58:01 2002 Subject: windows of external apps? In-Reply-To: <200203121703.MAA22634@www.runrev.com> Message-ID: I'd like to make a simple menu shell to replace the shell in windows. Is there a function to keep the stack visible (on top like the start bar) or even better, define where the app that is "launched" can place its window. WindowBoundingRect seems to only work for rev windows. -zac From dsc at swcp.com Tue Mar 12 17:21:01 2002 From: dsc at swcp.com (Dar Scott) Date: Tue Mar 12 17:21:01 2002 Subject: Scanning machines on a network In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Monday, March 11, 2002, at 06:09 PM, Sarah Reichelt wrote: > Here is a script to get your local IP address and store it in a field: Thanks, Sarah. I thought it would be something like that. I haven't tried this on a multi-homed system, but it looks to me that this approach allows implementers to account for a system with multiple IP addresses. This is a plus! I realize that this might be the best that can be done with Revolution. However, there are a few things about this that bother me: 1. Some computers are not on the Internet, but are on some local network. Using some known internet site would not work. 2. This depends on some known Internet site being up and the connection to the Internet is up. 3. I'm not sure what to think about the manners of connecting to "yahoo.com". Hmmm. ;-) Maybe the first line the the example handler could be changed to this: put line 1 of hostnametoaddress("www.runrev.com")& ":80|testSocket" \ into testSock I've thought about connecting to the local computer (in the same app) and then using hostAddress and peerAddress on both ends; maybe one of those four will work. I suspect not, but I'm so new to Revolution, I wouldn't be surprised if one does work. I _have_ tried opening with UDP which always succeeds, but hostAddress returns 0.0.0.0 in that case. (I'm using OS X.) So... Anybody have another method? Dar Scott From sarahr at genesearch.com.au Tue Mar 12 17:52:01 2002 From: sarahr at genesearch.com.au (Sarah Reichelt) Date: Tue Mar 12 17:52:01 2002 Subject: Applescript variable contents In-Reply-To: Message-ID: > I want to run a series of Applescripts from within a Rev standalone > and have the variable values carry across from one Applescript to > another. Is there a way to capture Applescript variable values into > Revolution and then back to Applescript? (other than using a text > file as an intermediary!) Here is a way that has been suggested before and seems to work well: use "replace" to insert your variables into place holders in the AppleScript before you "do" it. e.g. -- AppleScript stored in a field or property tell application "Finder" set newVar to *myVar* display dialog "Double: " & newVar * 2 end tell -- button that calls it after setting the variable on mouseUp put fld 1 into theScript replace "*myVar*" with 5 in theScript do theScript as AppleScript end mouseUp > > The overall goal here is to use Revolution to provide a window and a > progress bar to a running Applescript. I'm also trying to figure out > how to launch an app (the Apple System Profiler) in a hidden way so > the user doesn't have to see it. I don't know how to do this, but there was a complaint yesterday that "lock screen" locks the whole screen and not just the winodw. Perhaps this would hide your app while you open & close it. Cheers, Sarah From sarahr at genesearch.com.au Tue Mar 12 18:05:01 2002 From: sarahr at genesearch.com.au (Sarah Reichelt) Date: Tue Mar 12 18:05:01 2002 Subject: Scanning machines on a network In-Reply-To: Message-ID: There has been an alternative approach suggested: put hostnametoaddress(hostName()) into myIP but I found this didn't give any result as my hostName() is always empty. This may be because I am running on a LAN with a single IP address but multiple local addresses. I too worried about the etiquette of connecting to an external server but I don't do it often and I spread the queries around several sites. Cheers, Sarah > I haven't tried this on a multi-homed system, but it looks to me > that this approach allows implementers to account for a system with > multiple IP addresses. This is a plus! > > I realize that this might be the best that can be done with > Revolution. However, there are a few things about this that bother > me: > > 1. > Some computers are not on the Internet, but are on some local > network. Using some known internet site would not work. > > 2. > This depends on some known Internet site being up and the > connection to the Internet is up. > > 3. > I'm not sure what to think about the manners of connecting to > "yahoo.com". Hmmm. ;-) Maybe the first line the the example > handler could be changed to this: > > put line 1 of hostnametoaddress("www.runrev.com")& ":80|testSocket" \ > into testSock > > > I've thought about connecting to the local computer (in the same > app) and then using hostAddress and peerAddress on both ends; maybe > one of those four will work. I suspect not, but I'm so new to > Revolution, I wouldn't be surprised if one does work. > > I _have_ tried opening with UDP which always succeeds, but > hostAddress returns 0.0.0.0 in that case. (I'm using OS X.) > > So... Anybody have another method? > > Dar Scott > > > > > _______________________________________________ > use-revolution mailing list > use-revolution at lists.runrev.com > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution > From BradAllen at mac.com Tue Mar 12 18:08:01 2002 From: BradAllen at mac.com (Brad Allen) Date: Tue Mar 12 18:08:01 2002 Subject: Applescript variable contents In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hm... I don't get it. There's no line ApplescriptFunction which contains a return command. Isn't that necessary to obtain a return value from a function? > >get AppleScriptFunction("nameOfFunction", "path:to:file", 1, 2, "three", >"four") > >Mind that on Mac OS classic you need to use colons in the path (2nd param), >while on Mac OS X you must use slashes. > >Then in the stack-script you can put: > >function AppleScriptFunction aFun, aFile > put "set theScript to load script (alias ""e&aFile"e&")"&return& \ > "tell theScript to "&aFun&"(" into ASfunc > if paramcount() > 2 then > repeat with e = 3 to paramcount() > put param(e) into f > if param(e) is a number then > put f & "," after ASfunc > else > put quote & f & quote & "," after ASfunc > end if > end repeat > else > put " " after ASfunc > end if > put ")" into last char of ASfunc > do ASfunc as applescript >end AppleScriptFunction > >Now you can call any function with any number of parameters. The value that >is returned by the AppleScript-function is returned by "AppleScriptFunction" >as well. > >> The overall goal here is to use Revolution to provide a window and a >> progress bar to a running Applescript. I'm also trying to figure out >> how to launch an app (the Apple System Profiler) in a hidden way so >> the user doesn't have to see it. > >AppleScript only returns something to RunRev when a function is completely >finished. So you can let the progress bar shift when a function is >completed, but probably not when only one long AppleScript function is >called. > >I don't know if you can hide an app (probably you can, but I don't know >how). But as long as you don't use 'activate', it stays in the background. > >Terry > > >_______________________________________________ >use-revolution mailing list >use-revolution at lists.runrev.com >http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution -- From zelston at aol.com Tue Mar 12 18:12:00 2002 From: zelston at aol.com (Zac Elston) Date: Tue Mar 12 18:12:00 2002 Subject: visual and stored visuals In-Reply-To: <200203121703.MAA22634@www.runrev.com> Message-ID: The rev documentation says that using a visual stores it for use the next time a visual is called. that's cool, but I want it now, not next time. I go from card to card with a push right or push left but I'm not getting the desired effect like I see in the rev dictionary. How do I get a (push left) to occur within a handler after I used a (push right) in the previous handler? thanks -Zac From benr_mc at cogapp.com Tue Mar 12 18:14:01 2002 From: benr_mc at cogapp.com (Ben Rubinstein) Date: Tue Mar 12 18:14:01 2002 Subject: Program Linking In-Reply-To: Message-ID: on 12/3/02 6:10 PM, Ken Norris (dialup) at pixelbird at interisland.net wrote: > HyperCard has an 'answer file' command that should do this on a Mac. I don't > have Rev open, but are you saying it doesn't support that command? Different command. 'Answer file', fully supported in Rev, brings up the standard dialog to select an existing file. If you didn't have it, you could build one yourself, using "the files" and "the folders". 'Answer program', not supported at all in Rev/MC, is the standard dialog provided on MacOS to select a program to talk AppleEvents with, including programs running on remote machines. There is no way to replicate this functionality within Transcript - hence it would be useful to have. on 12/3/02 6:01 PM, Richard Gaskin at ambassador at FourthWorld.com wrote: > If you need your app to communicate with another Mac app using AE > specifically, you can probably do just about anything you'd need with either > Rev's built-in support for 'dosc' ("do script", for commands) and 'eval' > ("evaluate", for functions) Apple events, or with AppleScript. Absolutely - but if you want to use that functionality to do something to another program, allowing the user to select the target app, you need 'answer program'. > Other programmers have told me that the "answer program" API is screwy under > OS 9, which may be why it's not more widely supported. I don't recall > seeing it in anything but SuperCard, HyperCard, and an old stats graphing > program called Spyglass many years ago, and if there's a newer app that > provides this I'd be interesting in learning about it. First I've heard of it - do you have any more info on this? I've experienced no problems with it on OS 9 or before. You wouldn't expect to see it in any apps other than those that support users creating applescripts to control other apps (ie development environments like HC, SC, Rev, Script Debugger, FaceSpan, Frontier... all of which support it. > In the absence of "answer program", does "tell " in AS do what > you need? No; the two are complementary. You use "answer program" to get the path to the app that you then "tell" something to. Ben Rubinstein | Email: benr_mc at cogapp.com Cognitive Applications Ltd | Phone: +44 (0)1273-821600 http://www.cogapp.com | Fax : +44 (0)1273-728866 From dsc at swcp.com Tue Mar 12 18:50:01 2002 From: dsc at swcp.com (Dar Scott) Date: Tue Mar 12 18:50:01 2002 Subject: Scanning machines on a network In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <50204C49-3613-11D6-A263-0050E4C0B205@swcp.com> On Tuesday, March 12, 2002, at 04:03 PM, Sarah Reichelt wrote: > There has been an alternative approach suggested: > > put hostnametoaddress(hostName()) into myIP > > but I found this didn't give any result as my hostName() is always > empty. My system does the same. > I too worried about the etiquette of connecting to an external > server but I > don't do it often and I spread the queries around several sites. I think I have found a way that works on OS X. I'm not sure if it is a good general way. I have a test card that sends a UDP datagram and receives a UDP datagram. I am using this to help me learn about Revolution. I receive with "accept" and get the data on the second message to the specified message handler. That message includes the IP address of the sender. I send the datagram with open-write-close. Here are four of the ways I can send to myself: Destination IP Address IP Address given to handler ---------------------- --------------------------- 127.0.0.1 127.0.0.1 255.255.255.255 0.0.0.0 Where means the IP address of this computer. (127.0.0.2 does not work.) The third method could be used to get the local IP address. (The second method might work on more platforms, but several apps on the LAN doing this might interfere with each other unless some extra code is added.) I'm not saying this is a good method; it is another. Dar Scott Revolution Newbie From BradAllen at mac.com Tue Mar 12 19:31:01 2002 From: BradAllen at mac.com (Brad Allen) Date: Tue Mar 12 19:31:01 2002 Subject: Applescript variable contents In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: >Here is a way that has been suggested before and seems to work well: use >"replace" to insert your variables into place holders in the AppleScript >before you "do" it. Thanks. That works well for sending values to an Applescript, and I just now found out how get information to go the other way (from a variable in Applescript to a variable in Revolution). Apparently the "do" command returns a result containing whatever end up in the Applescript "result" via the return statement. This doesn't appear to be documented in the Transcript dictionary. -- From dsc at swcp.com Tue Mar 12 20:14:01 2002 From: dsc at swcp.com (Dar Scott) Date: Tue Mar 12 20:14:01 2002 Subject: copy or move card? Message-ID: <1DEEC00F-361F-11D6-8D24-0050E4C0B205@swcp.com> How do I duplicate a card? How do I copy or move a card to another stack? Dar Scott From ambassador at FourthWorld.com Tue Mar 12 20:26:01 2002 From: ambassador at FourthWorld.com (Richard Gaskin) Date: Tue Mar 12 20:26:01 2002 Subject: Program Linking In-Reply-To: <200203122352.SAA32130@www.runrev.com> Message-ID: Ben Rubinstein writes: > on 12/3/02 6:01 PM, Richard Gaskin at ambassador at FourthWorld.com wrote: > >> If you need your app to communicate with another Mac app using AE >> specifically, you can probably do just about anything you'd need with either >> Rev's built-in support for 'dosc' ("do script", for commands) and 'eval' >> ("evaluate", for functions) Apple events, or with AppleScript. > > Absolutely - but if you want to use that functionality to do something to > another program, allowing the user to select the target app, you need > 'answer program'. True, true. But given what we got, and looking at OS X's future in TCP sockets, maybe there's an opportunity to solve the problem of inter-process communication and enjoy all the benefits of sockets at the same time. If the communication is between multiple copies of a Rev-based app, couldn't you broadcase a request for IP and process ID and have those returned to present in a dialog? If we can get the details of that worked out we'd have something far more useful than "answer program" in some respects, and it would work on any TCP network running on any modern computer. Anyone got a URL handy for info on sending UDP broadcasts? Of course, if the communication is between a Rev-based app and something else, you're limited to what that something else provides. You could probbly hire someone to write an XFCN for you, but given that it would likely be obsolete with a future version of the CarbonLib it may just be a matter of patience (let's hope). >> Other programmers have told me that the "answer program" API is screwy under >> OS 9, which may be why it's not more widely supported. I don't recall >> seeing it in anything but SuperCard, HyperCard, and an old stats graphing >> program called Spyglass many years ago, and if there's a newer app that >> provides this I'd be interesting in learning about it. > > First I've heard of it - do you have any more info on this? I've > experienced no problems with it on OS 9 or before. You wouldn't expect to > see it in any apps other than those that support users creating applescripts > to control other apps (ie development environments like HC, SC, Rev, Script > Debugger, FaceSpan, Frontier... all of which support it. My post wasn't specific enough. OS 9 per se isn't the problem, it's the still-not-quite-finished-yet CarbonLib. In my limited understanding, apps that don't use CarbonLib should have no problem, but those that do are outta luck for now. I don't work much at the OS API level anymore (strongly prefer staying closer to the user experience with scripting languages like Rev), but a pal of mine who went to two of Apple's Carbon Kitchen events tells me that in the latest headers he has (Universal Headers 3.4.1) the call to IPCListPorts is still absent. The "answer program" dialog is brought up by the PPCBrowser API, which in turn uses IPCListPorts to obtain a list of connectable programs. As it was explained to me, there are four types of process IDs in the system and the type used by IPCListPorts was gone when they decided not to go forward with AppleTalk. According to the Apple engineer he spoke with, they are aware of the importance of having at least an alternative API for this, and loosely suggested that something addressing this might become availble around the time of WWDC or hopefully not long after. It may be in the more recent headers, if you know anyone who has them they could check to see if IPCListPorts has been restored. -- Richard Gaskin Fourth World Media Corporation Custom Software and Web Development for All Major Platforms Developer of WebMerge 1.9: Publish any Database on Any Site ___________________________________________________________ Ambassador at FourthWorld.com http://www.FourthWorld.com Tel: 323-225-3717 AIM: FourthWorldInc From jeanne at runrev.com Tue Mar 12 21:12:01 2002 From: jeanne at runrev.com (Jeanne A. E. DeVoto) Date: Tue Mar 12 21:12:01 2002 Subject: Download File? In-Reply-To: References: <001301c1c973$6bab8770$6a00a8c0@xhead> Message-ID: At 11:04 PM -0800 3/11/2002, Sjoerd Op 't Land wrote:> set itemDel to "/" > ask "What url?" with "http://www.metacard.com/stacks/echo.mt" > put it into wwwUrl > ask file "Where to put it?" with item -1 of wwwUrl > put it into fileUrl > put url it into url ("file:" & fileUrl) You may want to make that last URL a "binfile" URL, in case the file isn't a text file. -- Jeanne A. E. DeVoto ~ jeanne at runrev.com http://www.runrev.com/ Runtime Revolution Limited - Power to the Developer! From jeanne at runrev.com Tue Mar 12 21:12:42 2002 From: jeanne at runrev.com (Jeanne A. E. DeVoto) Date: Tue Mar 12 21:12:42 2002 Subject: Problem : Standalone, link and network In-Reply-To: <3C8DC9AE.52DD487E@caramail.com> Message-ID: At 1:26 AM -0800 3/12/2002, hellomorld at caramail.com wrote: >How put several Standalones in the same folder (there can be only one >data folder)? You can name the "data" folder anything you like in the Distribution Builder, so you can just create different names (for example, if one standalone is called "Foo", you might call its folder "Foo Data", etc.). -- Jeanne A. E. DeVoto ~ jeanne at runrev.com http://www.runrev.com/ Runtime Revolution Limited - Power to the Developer! From JohnRule at aol.com Tue Mar 12 21:14:01 2002 From: JohnRule at aol.com (JohnRule at aol.com) Date: Tue Mar 12 21:14:01 2002 Subject: Socket 'netiquette' Message-ID: The subject of using sockets has come up, and I just have to jump in. There do not seem to be any 'rules' as far as how to use sockets, and my experience has been this so far: Opening sockets to other computers (TCP) seems to require that you close the socket after each send. This seems fast enough to do very quick 'open' and 'close' calls, but it seems like a lot of overhead to me. Openning sockets to other devices do not seem to require this (more forgiving I guess). I can leave a socket open on custom device I am designing all day long (and all night actually), and neither the PC nor the 'box' seem to mind. It seems to take a long time to open the socket the first time, and then subsequent calls are very fast. I am hoping someone more knowledgeable than me will reprimand me for anything I may be doing wrong (or confirm anything I am doing right). I am having fun! ;-) Thanks, JR From troy at rpsystems.net Tue Mar 12 22:02:01 2002 From: troy at rpsystems.net (Troy Rollins) Date: Tue Mar 12 22:02:01 2002 Subject: Socket 'netiquette' In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <7A56B19A-362E-11D6-A7C8-000393853D6C@rpsystems.net> On Tuesday, March 12, 2002, at 09:11 PM, JohnRule at aol.com wrote: > Opening sockets to other computers (TCP) seems to require that you > close the > socket after each send. This seems fast enough to do very quick 'open' > and > 'close' calls, but it seems like a lot of overhead to me. > This is not always true. That behavior is typical of UDP and other types of "messaging", but very frequently client/server scenarios maintain connections on a socket. > Openning sockets to other devices do not seem to require this (more > forgiving I guess). I can leave a socket open on custom device I am > designing > all day long (and all night actually), and neither the PC nor the 'box' > seem > to mind. > This is true. It is extremely typical to maintain socket connects to "non-standard" devices. Maintaining a connection should cause no problems (or sure hasn't in my experience). However, many such devices may have an internal time-out on their connections (apparently yours don't), but frequently you must script to support that. > It seems to take a long time to open the socket the first time, and > then > subsequent calls are very fast. Connection time is pretty device specific - I've seen a full gamut of ranges for this. > > I am hoping someone more knowledgeable than me will reprimand me for > anything I may be doing wrong (or confirm anything I am doing right). More knowledgeable? Not sure... but experience says you are doing OK with your thinking. It sounds like you are having some fun. :) -- Troy RPSystems www.rpsystems.net From terry at discovery.nl Tue Mar 12 22:50:01 2002 From: terry at discovery.nl (Terry Vogelaar) Date: Tue Mar 12 22:50:01 2002 Subject: Applescript variable contents In-Reply-To: Message-ID: > Hm... I don't get it. There's no line ApplescriptFunction which > contains a return command. Isn't that necessary to obtain a return > value from a function? When I made this function, I planned to write the part that returns a value when the rest was finished. But when I started to test it, it already returned the proper values! In other words: I don't get it too! :-) But it works just fine. Try it. Terry http://www.discovery.nl >> get AppleScriptFunction("nameOfFunction", "path:to:file", 1, 2, "three", >> "four") >> >> Mind that on Mac OS classic you need to use colons in the path (2nd param), >> while on Mac OS X you must use slashes. >> >> Then in the stack-script you can put: >> >> function AppleScriptFunction aFun, aFile >> put "set theScript to load script (alias ""e&aFile"e&")"&return& \ >> "tell theScript to "&aFun&"(" into ASfunc >> if paramcount() > 2 then >> repeat with e = 3 to paramcount() >> put param(e) into f >> if param(e) is a number then >> put f & "," after ASfunc >> else >> put quote & f & quote & "," after ASfunc >> end if >> end repeat >> else >> put " " after ASfunc >> end if >> put ")" into last char of ASfunc >> do ASfunc as applescript >> end AppleScriptFunction >> >> Now you can call any function with any number of parameters. The value that >> is returned by the AppleScript-function is returned by "AppleScriptFunction" >> as well. From matt.denton at limelight.com.au Tue Mar 12 23:00:01 2002 From: matt.denton at limelight.com.au (Matt Denton) Date: Tue Mar 12 23:00:01 2002 Subject: Checking if a Custom Property Exists In-Reply-To: <200203122354.SAA32257@www.runrev.com> Message-ID: <828B182B-3636-11D6-81B7-0003930B4708@limelight.com.au> Hello all, Does anyone know how to check if a custom property exists? I've tried: put exists (the gCustomProp of this stack) and: put there is a (the gCustomProp of this stack) ... both yielding 'false' for a property that does exist and holds a value. Short of cycling through the prop list, I can't work out any other way. Many thanks! Matt Denton From matt.denton at limelight.com.au Tue Mar 12 23:08:01 2002 From: matt.denton at limelight.com.au (Matt Denton) Date: Tue Mar 12 23:08:01 2002 Subject: Working with Images In-Reply-To: <200203122354.SAA32257@www.runrev.com> Message-ID: Hello List, After spending many hours working and testing images for my project, I wanted to share one of my findings (thanks to Geoff for his help too!). I'm trying to create a 'skins' file of images that are referenced by another stack. These images are PNGs and must scale: Setting an icon image can reference any open stack, however the image can not be scaled. Neat and easy if resizing is not an issue; Setting the imageData of an object at the moment only works if the image is on the same card. Also both source and destination must be the same size or the data becomes scrambled; And finally the simple solution (very obvious and tucked inside in the documentation): put image "Original" of stack "Another Stack" into image "Working Copy" This resizes the destination to the same size as source. Not sure if this is of any help to anyone else, maybe! Cheers, Matt Denton From pixelbird at interisland.net Wed Mar 13 00:24:01 2002 From: pixelbird at interisland.net (Ken Norris (dialup)) Date: Wed Mar 13 00:24:01 2002 Subject: Working with Images In-Reply-To: Message-ID: on 3/12/02 8:06 PM, Matt Denton at matt.denton at limelight.com.au wrote: > And finally the simple solution (very obvious and tucked inside in the > documentation): > > put image "Original" of stack "Another Stack" into image "Working Copy" > > This resizes the destination to the same size as source. > > Not sure if this is of any help to anyone else, maybe! ---------- Absolutely! So much so that I'll put this in my own index files for Rev. Imagery is crucial in my adaptive software, and so is geometry. The posts I've seen have lead me to believe that the geometry manager isn't always reliable and may have to be resized via scripts. Thanks, Ken N. From dsc at swcp.com Wed Mar 13 00:32:01 2002 From: dsc at swcp.com (Dar Scott) Date: Wed Mar 13 00:32:01 2002 Subject: Scanning machines on a network In-Reply-To: <50204C49-3613-11D6-A263-0050E4C0B205@swcp.com> Message-ID: <1D932D06-3643-11D6-8D24-0050E4C0B205@swcp.com> On Tuesday, March 12, 2002, at 04:46 PM, Dar Scott wrote: > Here are four of the ways I can send to myself: > > Destination IP Address IP Address given to handler > ---------------------- --------------------------- > 127.0.0.1 127.0.0.1 > 255.255.255.255 > 0.0.0.0 > > > Where means the IP address of this computer. (127.0.0.2 > does not work.) > > The third method could be used to get the local IP address. It turns out this is a crumby idea. On Windows 2000, 0.0.0.0 does not seem to work as a destination address. (Aside: 127.2.2.1 does work on Windows 2000, but does not on OS X.) Dar Scott From pixelbird at interisland.net Wed Mar 13 00:37:01 2002 From: pixelbird at interisland.net (Ken Norris (dialup)) Date: Wed Mar 13 00:37:01 2002 Subject: Program Linking In-Reply-To: Message-ID: on 3/12/02 3:11 PM, Ben Rubinstein at benr_mc at cogapp.com wrote: > Different command. 'Answer file', fully supported in Rev, brings up the > standard dialog to select an existing file. If you didn't have it, you > could build one yourself, using "the files" and "the folders". 'Answer > program', not supported at all in Rev/MC, is the standard dialog provided on > MacOS to select a program to talk AppleEvents with, including programs > running on remote machines. There is no way to replicate this functionality > within Transcript - hence it would be useful to have. ---------- Agreed. Thanks for clarifying the difference. Best regards, Ken N. From jeanne at runrev.com Wed Mar 13 00:43:00 2002 From: jeanne at runrev.com (Jeanne A. E. DeVoto) Date: Wed Mar 13 00:43:00 2002 Subject: copy or move card? In-Reply-To: <1DEEC00F-361F-11D6-8D24-0050E4C0B205@swcp.com> Message-ID: At 5:10 PM -0800 3/12/2002, Dar Scott wrote: >How do I duplicate a card? Use the clone command: clone this card >How do I copy or move a card to another stack? You copy a card by selecting it and choosing "Copy Objects" from the Edit menu, or by using the copy command in a handler or the message box. To select a card, double-click it with the Pointer tool. The selected card can now be copied and pasted. The following statement copies the current card to the clipboard: copy this card After copying, go to the destination you want to place the card in, then either choose "Paste Objects" from the Edit menu or use the paste command. The card is pasted into the current stack, after the card you were on. (Substitute "cut" for "copy" if you want to move the card rather than copying it.) -- Jeanne A. E. DeVoto ~ jeanne at runrev.com http://www.runrev.com/ Runtime Revolution Limited - Power to the Developer! From jeanne at runrev.com Wed Mar 13 00:43:06 2002 From: jeanne at runrev.com (Jeanne A. E. DeVoto) Date: Wed Mar 13 00:43:06 2002 Subject: Checking if a Custom Property Exists In-Reply-To: <828B182B-3636-11D6-81B7-0003930B4708@limelight.com.au> References: <200203122354.SAA32257@www.runrev.com> Message-ID: At 7:57 PM -0800 3/12/2002, Matt Denton wrote: >Does anyone know how to check if a custom property exists? Use the customKeys: if "myCustomPropName" is among the lines of \ the customKeys of this stack then -- it exists! end if -- Jeanne A. E. DeVoto ~ jeanne at runrev.com http://www.runrev.com/ Runtime Revolution Limited - Power to the Developer! From sims at ezpzapps.com Wed Mar 13 01:00:01 2002 From: sims at ezpzapps.com (sims) Date: Wed Mar 13 01:00:01 2002 Subject: Program Linking In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: You wrote: "...to select a program to talk AppleEvents with.." Make a btn Place the following in it as a Custom Property: set fileAttachThis to choose file -- of type "TEXT" set fileList to {fileAttachThis} Script that btn with: on mouseUp put the u_Find of me into tFind do tFind as applescript put the result -- into tData end mouseUp slice & dice what you get as the result. Any help to you? atb sims >on 3/12/02 3:11 PM, Ben Rubinstein at benr_mc at cogapp.com wrote: > > > Different command. 'Answer file', fully supported in Rev, brings up the > > standard dialog to select an existing file. If you didn't have it, you > > could build one yourself, using "the files" and "the folders". 'Answer > > program', not supported at all in Rev/MC, is the standard dialog >provided on > > MacOS to select a program to talk AppleEvents with, including programs > > running on remote machines. There is no way to replicate this >functionality > > within Transcript - hence it would be useful to have. >---------- >Agreed. Thanks for clarifying the difference. > >Best regards, >Ken N. ___________________________________________ http://www.EZPZapps.com info at EZPZapps.com Software - Internet Development - Consulting From dcphillips at webbox.com Wed Mar 13 05:12:01 2002 From: dcphillips at webbox.com (David Phillips) Date: Wed Mar 13 05:12:01 2002 Subject: Commercial Examples? Training? Message-ID: <13030272.7837@webbox.com> Hi, I know this has been asked before, but does anyone have any commercial products developed in Rev that are available for sale now? Or at least professional-quality examples? (Apart from the typing tutor and what's on the MetaCard app examples page? We know Rev is young, but...?) We're especially interested in products that are graphically intense (taking advantage of the animation manager and/or QT) and those that use Valentina or other external databases. We're also interested in anyone that has commercial/near-commercial INTERNET products written in Rev for sale now. We're just trying to get a better idea of the possibilities of the tool. Examples are a great way for us to do that. We also want to support Rev developers. ------------------------------------------------------ We're also looking for anyone that has computer-based training on Rev/MC available for sale. Most of our developers do not have a Hypercard background, so it's a different way of thinking for us. We would love to see narrated screen-capture MPEGs of someone using the tool on example projects or the like. Might this even be something RR itself would tackle as a supplemental product? I don't think anyone has done this yet, but I think it would help speed the adoption of the tool. I know that we are holding out to buy more licenses until we get more comfortable with Rev's capabilities. The written tuturials are a bit slow-going. ----------------------------------------------------- Finally, does Rev support "drag and drop" operations (like one can achieve with Flash,etc.)? Many thanks. - David From benr_mc at cogapp.com Wed Mar 13 06:27:01 2002 From: benr_mc at cogapp.com (Ben Rubinstein) Date: Wed Mar 13 06:27:01 2002 Subject: Program Linking In-Reply-To: Message-ID: on 13/3/02 1:23 AM, Richard Gaskin at ambassador at FourthWorld.com wrote: > Of course, if the communication is between a Rev-based app and something > else, you're limited to what that something else provides. I think you're missing the point. This is useful exactly for communication betwen a Rev-based app and something else; it's part of the interface a decent Rev-based app that does something using or to other apps may need. * You write something in Revolution to do something to a text file - count the words, for example. You need an interface for the user to choose a file to operate on. You could have a field in which the user types the path to the file - that's ugly, work for the user, prone to error. You could use the "folders" and "files" functions to write your own disk browser, to let the user select a file for your code to operate on - that's a lot of work. Since the operating system has built in disk browser functionality, which is the standard used by most other apps, you should be able to invoke that. You can: "answer file". * You write something in Revolution to do something using QT visual effects - display a slideshow, say. You need an interface for the user to choose an effect to use between slides. You could have a field in which the user types the effect name and parameters - that's ugly, work for the user, prone to error. You could code a dialog stack yourself, using the "QTeffects" function to find out what effects are available, coding all the different kinds of parameters each needs, etc - that's a lot of work. Since QuickTime has built in effects browser functionality, complete with pretty previews etc, which is the standard used by most other apps, you should be able to invoke that. You can: "answer effect". * You write something in Revolution that does something to a third-party app over AppleScript. You need an interface for the user to choose the app to target, which may be on another machine on the network. You could have a field in which the user types the full path - that's ugly, work for the user, prone to error. You could code a dialog stack yourself - but hang on, you can't - how can you establish what machines are on the network, and what AppleEvent-aware apps are running on each machine? Since the operating system has a built in AppleScriptable-process browser, which is the standard used by most other apps, you should be able to invoke that. You can't. That's why Rev/MC should support "answer program". Ben Rubinstein | Email: benr_mc at cogapp.com Cognitive Applications Ltd | Phone: +44 (0)1273-821600 http://www.cogapp.com | Fax : +44 (0)1273-728866 From ddacey007 at dingoblue.net.au Wed Mar 13 07:47:00 2002 From: ddacey007 at dingoblue.net.au (Daniel Dacey) Date: Wed Mar 13 07:47:00 2002 Subject: Quicktime Movie PLayer Message-ID: Hi folks, I?m a newbie to Revolution and am having real trouble with figuring out how to assign and play a movie in Revolution. Basically what I would like to do is have a series of buttons or thumbnails which the user can click on. The buttons would then change the movie displayed in a Quicktime window (Same window for all movies) and play the movie. Think of like a video jukebox. Any ideas how to do this? I also would like to use the built in Quicktime movie player controls for the playback of the movie. While I know how to enable the QT control, it sometimes seems to lose the focus and not respond to mouse clicks etc. How do I make sure the Quicktime movie control has the focus when playing movies? Any and all help gratefully received! Regards, Daniel Dacey -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From devin_asay at byu.edu Wed Mar 13 10:34:00 2002 From: devin_asay at byu.edu (Devin Asay) Date: Wed Mar 13 10:34:00 2002 Subject: Quicktime Movie PLayer In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: At 11:14 PM +1100 3/13/02, Daniel Dacey wrote: >Hi folks, > >I'm a newbie to Revolution and am having real trouble with figuring >out how to assign and play a movie in Revolution. Basically what I >would like to do is have a series of buttons or thumbnails which the >user can click on. The buttons would then change the movie displayed >in a Quicktime window (Same window for all movies) and play the >movie. Think of like a video jukebox. Any ideas how to do this? Create and name your QuickTime player. For each selector button, issue a command like this: set the filename of player "myPlayer" to "/MyHD/myFolder/myMovie.mov" You can make it even easier by setting the defaultFolder property to the folder that contains the stack and making sure all of the movies are in that same folder. Then you only have to name the movie or a relative file path to open the movie: get the filename of this stack set the itemDelimiter to "/" delete last item of it set the defaultFolder to it Now all you have to do for each button is this: set the filename of player "myPlayer" to "myMovie.mov" Or, if the movies are in a folder that is in the same folder as the stack: set the filename of player "myPlayer" to "Movies/myMovie.mov" Devin -- Devin Asay Humanities Research Center Brigham Young University From judis at awana.org Wed Mar 13 10:40:00 2002 From: judis at awana.org (Judi Smith) Date: Wed Mar 13 10:40:00 2002 Subject: Externals/Plug-in newbie question Message-ID: <30C8F41C-3698-11D6-9088-0030656F9B60@awana.org> Hi all: I'm trying to see if I can develop an app that I am planning with Revolution. Issue 1: What I need to do is execute some external code, particularly QuickTime calls. The code will basically get and parse a frame of video then take the resulting text info and put it into text fields. Issue 2: Can I control a movie and extract a particular frame of QuickTime video - export to say a JPEG file and put that resulting image into a container- from within Revolution. Big question, where do I find out about hooking up external code? I couldn't find any references to that topic in Help or on the web site. TIA Judi Smith _____________________________________________________ Judi Smith Awana Clubs International Multimedia Maven 1 E Bode Rd. Ph: 630-540-4570 Streamwood, IL 60107 Fx: 630-213-2640 http://www.awana.org judis at awana.org From mark at bcesouth.com Wed Mar 13 11:28:01 2002 From: mark at bcesouth.com (BCE) Date: Wed Mar 13 11:28:01 2002 Subject: ftp Message-ID: <003101c1caa5$78b49640$d86600d8@s1> I'm new to revolution, and am really liking it. I'm having some interesting ftp issues, wondering if anyone could shed some light for me. I'm sending a file (tried both a text and an image file, the image file is what I really want to use, though) to a server. I'm trying it on 3 servers, 2 windows and 1 linux. On one windows server, everything works great. I can even export an image straight to ftp. However, both the other windows server and the linux server are not cooperating as nicely. The best I can do is get the door open and upload something (the filename shows up on the server, but it's an empty file) unuseable. It also seems to lock up for a while when trying to upload to the questionable servers. Here's a sample line of what I'm trying (tried in both 1.1 and 1.1.1): put url "file:C:\windows\desktop\whatever.gif" into url ftp://username:password at www.server.com/somedirectory/whatever.gif" I have replaced "ftp" with "binfile" and had limited success on the linux server. (Also tried replacing "file" with "binfile") Tried so many combinations that I've even confused myself :-) Are there some paramteres that I'm not aware of that I need to be passing? Thanks!!! Mark Paris -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From Kim_Smith at byu.edu Wed Mar 13 11:39:01 2002 From: Kim_Smith at byu.edu (Kim L. Smith) Date: Wed Mar 13 11:39:01 2002 Subject: Sound Recording on Windows Platform Message-ID: <000201c1caad$304cff70$b852bb80@smithkim> Has anyone had success in recording sound using the "record sound" command in Revolution? I have tried it on three different computers using Win Me, Win 2000 and Win XP and only get a noise that sounds like a lion growling under its breath. Sounds recorded with sound recorder play back fine. My application in oral language testing requires controlling the recording with a script in Revolution. It works fine in ToolBook. I also need a countdown timer function if anyone has any ideas. I need to use it for both Mac and PC so it can't be an XCMD, I think. ====================== Mr. Kim L. Smith Humanities Research Center 3060 JKHB Brigham Young University Provo, UT 84602 Office: (801) 422-7426 Fax: (801) 422-0304 From judis at awana.org Wed Mar 13 13:15:01 2002 From: judis at awana.org (Judi Smith) Date: Wed Mar 13 13:15:01 2002 Subject: Kartolina In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Cool App and idea! So I assume you grab the frame and use it in the email, is that right or ar you sending the whole movie? Can I copy the frame and put it into another container so that it is visible within the application? Thanks JS On Wednesday, March 13, 2002, at 06:05 PM, sims wrote: > At 9:37 -0600 3/13/02, Judi Smith wrote: >> >> Issue 2: Can I control a movie and extract a particular frame of >> QuickTime video - export to say a JPEG file and put that resulting >> image into a container- from within Revolution. > > > Hi Judi, > > Have a look at my app named Kartolina: > > http://EZPZapps.com/kartolina > > Made with Rev...I took a look at awana.org, very impressive! > I live in Malta and met a woman on the bus here (she was from Canada) > who is doing drug prevention work in the schools for a few months. > The awana web page made me think of her... > > atb > > sims > > ___________________________________________ > > http://EZPZapps.com info at EZPZapps.com > Software - Internet Development - Consulting > _____________________________________________________ Judi Smith Awana Clubs International Multimedia Maven 1 E Bode Rd. Ph: 630-540-4570 Streamwood, IL 60107 Fx: 630-213-2640 http://www.awana.org judis at awana.org From dsc at swcp.com Wed Mar 13 15:08:00 2002 From: dsc at swcp.com (Dar Scott) Date: Wed Mar 13 15:08:00 2002 Subject: Count-down Timer Function In-Reply-To: <000201c1caad$304cff70$b852bb80@smithkim> Message-ID: <7A3EBBAE-36BD-11D6-891E-0050E4C0B205@swcp.com> On Wednesday, March 13, 2002, at 09:36 AM, Kim L. Smith wrote: > I also need a countdown timer function if anyone has any ideas. I need > to use it for both Mac and PC so it can't be an XCMD, I think. I'm a Revolution newbie, but I'm willing to comment. Take my ideas with a grain of salt. Do you mean you want something to happen in some time period? Then use send like this: send timesUp to me in 60 seconds Do you mean you want to call a function that returns the time until some some "timer" runs out? In the handler to set the timer for some time (in ms), get milliseconds(), add the time to that and save it in a variable. In the function subtract milliseconds() from the value in the variable and return that. Do you mean you want to display the time until something happens? Start with a field and add handlers to make it work as a timer. Display the remaining time on a regular basis. Calculate the remaining time and display text based on the above function. Set the "timer" for that function when the timer is started. Now for displaying on a regular basis... I read somewhere that using "send" is better than "idle". Make a handler that calls the display handler and takes care of those things that occur when the count gets to or past zero. If the count is not to or past zero, then it should also send a message to itself in some short time period (a fraction of the display resolution). The timer start handler should also call this after the timer is set up. You probably want to keep from calling the regular handler when the timer is restarted; keep a flag variable that indicates that the timer is on. You might want to handle what happens when the user goes to another card (or tries to). I don't have any good ideas here. Alternatives: If you don't mind accumulated errors, you can set the time in the send to the resolution you want and count down a timer. This puts the least load on the system. If you can't have accumulated errors, use the above method and either use a time in send that is several times smaller than the resolution you need or adjust it to lock in on just after a digit change. The first of these last two might make the display look a little ragged; you might need to make a judgment call. You might want to have something occur when the count gets to zero. The easiest way is to do a send just before calling start on the timer. However, if the timer can be paused or restarted, then it might be better to have the regular handler take care of what happens at zero. Yikes! It looks like I got to babbling. Dar Scott From ambassador at FourthWorld.com Wed Mar 13 15:51:01 2002 From: ambassador at FourthWorld.com (Richard Gaskin) Date: Wed Mar 13 15:51:01 2002 Subject: Program Linking In-Reply-To: <200203131708.MAA16987@www.runrev.com> Message-ID: Ben Rubinstein writes: > on 13/3/02 1:23 AM, Richard Gaskin at ambassador at FourthWorld.com wrote: > >> Of course, if the communication is between a Rev-based app and something >> else, you're limited to what that something else provides. > > I think you're missing the point. This is useful exactly for communication > betwen a Rev-based app and something else; it's part of the interface a > decent Rev-based app that does something using or to other apps may need. > > * You write something in Revolution to do something to a text file - count > the words, for example. You need an interface for the user to choose a > file to operate on. (clipped for brevity) > You can: "answer file". > > * You write something in Revolution to do something using QT visual effects (clipped for brevity) > You can: "answer effect". > > * You write something in Revolution that does something to a third-party app > over AppleScript. You need an interface for the user to choose the app to > target, which may be on another machine on the network. You could have a > field in which the user types the full path - that's ugly, work for the > user, prone to error. You could code a dialog stack yourself - but hang on, > you can't - how can you establish what machines are on the network, and what > AppleEvent-aware apps are running on each machine? Since the operating > system has a built in AppleScriptable-process browser, which is the standard > used by most other apps, you should be able to invoke that. You can't. > That's why Rev/MC should support "answer program". Agreed on all points. But no matter how useful it is, Apple has not included the call needed to access the "answer program" dialog in the CarbonLib API (at least as of Universal Headers 3.4.1). The other dialogs you mentioned are still supported by the current OS and are present in Revolution (along with "answer color", a personal favorite -- thanks Kevin and Scott!). Rev deploys on nearly 100% of all modern desktop computers. Both of Apple's OSes have an aggregate marketshare reported by MediaMetrics to be about 2.5%, and the company themselves says the Classic OS is being phased out in favor of a company-wide migration to OS X as soon as possible. Even if we account for the disproportionately high number of Mac folks developing in Rev (a number that would make Apple proud), Apple tells us to think OS X if we want to stay in the game. However valuable "answer program" would be for those using Mac Classic, the diminishing size of the affected audience suggests that it might be more cost-effective to have access for that dialog provided by an external, at least until Apple provides support for this in the current OS. The Rev folks could add it directly, but given what we know of the situation it seems likely that they'll need to replace it as Apple moves the CarbonLib closer to completion. If it's cost-effective for them to do it sooner of course we would all enjoy having it. But as with dialog sheets and throbbing default buttons, until those things are included in the CarbonLib API any interim solution would likely need to be rewritten in less than a year, possibly just a few months. Another alternative might be to find out how to script that from within FaceSpan or other AppleScript-based tool, and use those AppleScript calls from within Rev to present the dialog, or at least retrieve a list of current processes. Is there an AppleScript function for this? How does FaceSpan do it? In the meantime, a polling of local IPs can retrieve info from other apps (such as an identifying string) using sockets rather quickly. With such information you could build a dialog for any of your custom Rev-based apps, on any platform, anywhere in the world. You can do it with what you have today, and it will work in tommorrow's OS. This doesn't address non-Rev-based apps (as quoted above), but if you're linking Rev-based apps there are many benefits to this approach. It would be more practical, as some have suggested here, to use UDP broadcasting instead of walking through the subnet list. But I've had difficulty getting UDP broadcasting to work in Rev. Anyone have an example of how to do a UDP broadcast in Transcript? -- Richard Gaskin Fourth World Media Corporation Custom Software and Web Development for All Major Platforms Developer of WebMerge 1.9: Publish any Database on Any Site ___________________________________________________________ Ambassador at FourthWorld.com http://www.FourthWorld.com Tel: 323-225-3717 AIM: FourthWorldInc From Zzyzx at Relia.Net Wed Mar 13 16:51:01 2002 From: Zzyzx at Relia.Net (Josh Dye) Date: Wed Mar 13 16:51:01 2002 Subject: Search for IPs? Message-ID: <000c01c1cad8$f3490480$bc00a8c0@xhead> Hello, I was wondering if there is any way that Rev could do a search for open IP Addresses on a network. Like, have it search for 192.168.0.???. And where the ??? is, it would search every IP from 1 to 255 and see if any computer is using that IP address. And, if it is using an IP, have it put the results in a field. Is there any way or something similar to do this? Thanks! - Josh Dye -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From dsc at swcp.com Wed Mar 13 17:03:01 2002 From: dsc at swcp.com (Dar Scott) Date: Wed Mar 13 17:03:01 2002 Subject: UDP Broadcast (was Re: Program Linking) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <88E12830-36CD-11D6-891E-0050E4C0B205@swcp.com> On Wednesday, March 13, 2002, at 01:48 PM, Richard Gaskin wrote: > It would be more practical, as some have suggested here, to use UDP > broadcasting instead of walking through the subnet list. But I've had > difficulty getting UDP broadcasting to work in Rev. Anyone have > an example > of how to do a UDP broadcast in Transcript? This works on W2K and OS X: If you can send UDP, then you can UDP broadcast. Use a destination address of 255.255.255.255. This is normally translated to a subnet broadcast address. For example, for the network 10.5.5.0 with subnet mask 255.255.255.0, the actual address used will be 10.5.5.255. The consequence is that if you have more than one subnet on the LAN, only those on the same subnet as the sender will get the message. Almost everybody who uses Ethernet will use only one subnet on the same Ethernet collision space, though. This script will illustrate: local sendSocket on mouseUp put field "255.255.255.255:" & field "Send Port" into sendSocket open datagram socket to sendSocket write field "Send Data" to socket sendSocket -- write more if you need to; each will be one datagram close socket sendSocket end mouseUp I assume multicasts will work also. Ah, but receiving. There's the rub. I use "accept datagram socket". There might be a better way. I described how I do this in recent mail to improve-revolution with the subject ""accept datagram" on W2K is not that on OS X". Essentially, I open with "accept" specifying the message for handling datagrams. Those messages are sent with the sender's IP address and with the datagram content. NB: Close the socket with the port only; if you look at openSocket, you will see the socket listed in that form. The problem (or feature) with OS X is that an additional message is sent upon "accept" and only one valid datagram can be received. The "datagram" for the extra message empty, so if you make sure no valid datagram is empty, you can ignore it based on that for both platforms. If you need to receive more than one datagram, you have some work to do. Otherwise just close it at the end of the second message handling. You can reopen it to receive more. Anybody know how this works on other platforms? Notice that the sending and receiving are completely independent sockets. I haven't figured out a way for either the sender or receiver to get the sender's port, so, for now, protocols will have to ignore that. This will receive broadcasts from the local computer as well as others. That is, you will receive your own broadcasts. To tell those apart you will need to either find out your own IP address or compare against your own hash code (from milliseconds()?) in your datagrams. I have a tiny UDP example stack. I don't know whether it is a good example; I'm new to Revolution. Dar Scott From dsc at swcp.com Wed Mar 13 17:27:00 2002 From: dsc at swcp.com (Dar Scott) Date: Wed Mar 13 17:27:00 2002 Subject: Search for IPs? In-Reply-To: <000c01c1cad8$f3490480$bc00a8c0@xhead> Message-ID: On Wednesday, March 13, 2002, at 02:48 PM, Josh Dye wrote: > ??? I was wondering if there is any way that Rev could do a search > for open IP Addresses on a network. Like, have it search for > 192.168.0.???. And where the ??? is, it would search every IP from > 1 to 255 and see if any computer is using that IP address. And, if > it is using an IP, have it put the results in a field. Is there > any way or something similar to do this? ? (You probably want 1 to 254; if your subnet mask is 255.255.255.0, then 192.168.0.255 will be a broadcast address.) The short answer is NO. The longer answer is maybe, but it will be awkward. A computer with a firewall might be setup so that it does not respond to outside probing. The most common method is to ping. I don't know of any Revolution way to do that. It is outside of TCP and UDP. You might be able to set up some rule for all computers. Say, every computer must supply the trivial TCP/IP services such as ECHO. You can then try to TCP to the ECHO port on every address. If Revolution error handling can indicate certain kinds of errors, it might be possible to learn of a computer from rejected TCP connections or rejected UDP datagrams. I doubt this. There might be some other way, but none come to mind. If you are thinking of using this list of IP addresses for polling, I suggest you invert the notion if possible and have each program you want to poll broadcast its presence. Or poll all addresses. Dar Scott From BradAllen at mac.com Wed Mar 13 22:11:01 2002 From: BradAllen at mac.com (Brad Allen) Date: Wed Mar 13 22:11:01 2002 Subject: stopping shutdown on Mac OS 9 Message-ID: I'm building a Rev standalone for Mac OS 9 PPC which I'd like to put in the Shutdown Items of Mac OS 9 and have it run before the computer shuts down. What happens, however, is that my standalone gets launched and then immediately quits as the OS tries to shut down all running apps. How can I get my standalone to protest the shutdown, as do other apps that happen to have open unsaved documents? (I tried throwing up a modal dialog, but that didn't stop the shutdown.) Thanks... From dan at clearvisiontech.com Thu Mar 14 00:50:00 2002 From: dan at clearvisiontech.com (Dan Friedman) Date: Thu Mar 14 00:50:00 2002 Subject: Popup Menu Message-ID: Hello again, I am trying to create some right-click menus. I'm getting the menu to popup just fine. On the Mac, everything works great! However, on the PC, once the menu is popped up, the menu doesn't seem to work. I have the style of the button set to "popup" and the mouseMenuButton set to 0. I am calling it from: on mouseDown theButton if theButton = 3 then popup button "myPopupMenu" end if end mouseDown In the button "myPopupMenu", I am using standard menuPick calls. I tried to break at the menuPick in my popup button, but it seems like it never get's the menuPick message. Anyone know why the menu seems to be unresponsive? Thank you. From cowhead at ztv.ne.jp Thu Mar 14 01:51:01 2002 From: cowhead at ztv.ne.jp (cowhead) Date: Thu Mar 14 01:51:01 2002 Subject: sound recording on windoze Message-ID: <3C9048AC.5AD416C6@ztv.ne.jp> I heard that something about this was supposedly corrected in the "build 8" of the metacard engine (I think you can type "put the build number" in the message box to get this number). However, on a Mac anyway, there are still massive problems. In my experience, you will have much better luck recording "with dialog" option. In the absence of dialog, there seems to be a bug in specifying quality. I noticed that the rev docs indicate that recording is performed via Quicktime. So I wonder if a quicktime update or compatability check might not also effect recording. For example, I often run on a Japanese OS, containing Japanese quicktime by default. Quicktime visual effects invoked by rev will not function in this environment unless you change their names to the Japanese equivalents. I'm wondering if the same issue might not be occuring with the 'record sound file' command. good luck, mark mitchell japan From jeanne at runrev.com Thu Mar 14 02:44:01 2002 From: jeanne at runrev.com (Jeanne A. E. DeVoto) Date: Thu Mar 14 02:44:01 2002 Subject: mouse messages to invisible controls In-Reply-To: <3FC26394-3527-11D6-B7A8-0050E4C0B205@swcp.com> References: Message-ID: At 11:36 AM -0800 3/11/2002, Dar Scott wrote: >And, as we discovered, the check box for "highlight when clicked" >on the button tab needs to be unchecked. I'm not sure what >property this controls. (A tip: the tool tip for each item in the Properties palettes contains the corresponding property name. There's also a Preferences setting to reverse this: show the property name as the label of the checkbox, etc in the palette, and show an explanation in the tool tips.) -- Jeanne A. E. DeVoto ~ jeanne at runrev.com http://www.runrev.com/ Runtime Revolution Limited - Power to the Developer! From jeanne at runrev.com Thu Mar 14 02:45:34 2002 From: jeanne at runrev.com (Jeanne A. E. DeVoto) Date: Thu Mar 14 02:45:34 2002 Subject: Extract a substack In-Reply-To: <7c.244aaee4.29beb842@aol.com> Message-ID: At 5:47 PM -0800 3/11/2002, JamesHBeckmann at aol.com wrote: >In a main stack I have created several substacks. How do I extract these >stacks from the main stack, or how do I reference these stacks from a >different stack? You can reference them simply by name: go to stack "My Substack" regardless of where you are, as long as the stack file that contains them is open. If that stack file isn't open, you can use the "long form": go to stack "My Substack" of stack "The Main Stack" or go to stack "My Substack" of stack "stackfile.rev" If you want to move a substack out of the main stack, choose "Move Substack to File" from the File menu. Or use the Stack Mover in the Application Overview window (click the filename and flip the disclosure arrow to expand the Application Overview and see the Stack Mover). -- Jeanne A. E. DeVoto ~ jeanne at runrev.com http://www.runrev.com/ Runtime Revolution Limited - Power to the Developer! From jeanne at runrev.com Thu Mar 14 02:47:01 2002 From: jeanne at runrev.com (Jeanne A. E. DeVoto) Date: Thu Mar 14 02:47:01 2002 Subject: visual and stored visuals In-Reply-To: References: <200203121703.MAA22634@www.runrev.com> Message-ID: At 3:09 PM -0800 3/12/2002, Zac Elston wrote: >The rev documentation says that using a visual stores it for use the next >time a visual is called. that's cool, but I want it now, not next time. > >I go from card to card with a push right or push left but I'm not getting >the desired effect like I see in the rev dictionary. > >How do I get a (push left) to occur within a handler after I used a (push >right) in the previous handler? It should happen the next time you switch cards after issuing the "visual effect" command. If it's not happening when you switch cards, is it possible the lockScreen is true? -- Jeanne A. E. DeVoto ~ jeanne at runrev.com http://www.runrev.com/ Runtime Revolution Limited - Power to the Developer! From ceccoing at tin.it Thu Mar 14 03:05:01 2002 From: ceccoing at tin.it (Francesco LIVRAGHI) Date: Thu Mar 14 03:05:01 2002 Subject: revGoURL in S.O. Windows Message-ID: <3C905948.58E3D641@tin.it> Dear all, I tried to open a local web page into my browser (S.O. Windows, browsers IExplorer, Netscape) with this code: revGoUrl "file:testhtml.htm" where "testhtml.htm" is an html file generated by me and stored in the same folder of the stack. The result is that my application open the correct browser but does not load my html page. The browser loads the home page selected in the browser preferences. Other test executed with same result: set the complete absolute path of "C:\...\...\...\testhtml.htm" Try with a real internet address "http:\\www.ceccoing.it" Do you have suggestions! Francesco -- Ing. Francesco Livraghi | Via A. e B. Rossi,8 | 26841 CASALPUSTERLENGO (Lo) | ITALIA - Europa | Tel/Fax +39-037784933 | e-mail: info at ceccoing.it | url: http://www.ceccoing.it | Fuori dagli schemi: --------------------------------------------------------------- " Every living thing wants to survive". (SPOCK, "The Ultimate Computer", stardate 4731.3) --------------------------------------------------------------- From drvaughan55 at mac.com Thu Mar 14 03:51:00 2002 From: drvaughan55 at mac.com (David Vaughan) Date: Thu Mar 14 03:51:00 2002 Subject: revGoURL in S.O. Windows In-Reply-To: <3C905948.58E3D641@tin.it> Message-ID: <64E29E74-3728-11D6-8D06-000393598038@mac.com> Francesco Your problem is straightforward. Change "\\" to "//" thus http://www.ceccoing.it" This is a unix/web paradigm, not windoze. regards David On Thursday, March 14, 2002, at 07:03 , Francesco LIVRAGHI wrote: > Dear all, > I tried to open a local web page into my browser (S.O. Windows, browsers > IExplorer, Netscape) with this code: > > revGoUrl "file:testhtml.htm" > > where "testhtml.htm" is an html file generated by me and stored in the > same folder of the stack. > The result is that my application open the correct browser but does not > load my html page. > The browser loads the home page selected in the browser preferences. > > Other test executed with same result: > set the complete absolute path of "C:\...\...\...\testhtml.htm" > Try with a real internet address "http:\\www.ceccoing.it" > > Do you have suggestions! > Francesco > > -- > Ing. Francesco Livraghi | > Via A. e B. Rossi,8 | > 26841 CASALPUSTERLENGO (Lo) | > ITALIA - Europa | > Tel/Fax +39-037784933 | > e-mail: info at ceccoing.it | > url: http://www.ceccoing.it | > > Fuori dagli schemi: > --------------------------------------------------------------- > " Every living thing wants to survive". > (SPOCK, "The Ultimate Computer", stardate 4731.3) > --------------------------------------------------------------- > _______________________________________________ > use-revolution mailing list > use-revolution at lists.runrev.com > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution > From signe.sanne at roman.uib.no Thu Mar 14 05:11:01 2002 From: signe.sanne at roman.uib.no (Signe Marie Sanne) Date: Thu Mar 14 05:11:01 2002 Subject: Sound Recording on Windows Platform Message-ID: Hello, (using MetaCard 2.4.2B2) on Windows NT/2000 it is possible to record with MACE 3:1 at 44.100 kHz, 8bit, Mono (" record sound tMysoundFile with dialog"). However, I have found it more convenient to use the built-in panel "Sound recording". The script is: put word 1 to -2 of queryRegistry("hkey_classes_root\soundRec\shell\record\command\") into lyd launch lyd If someone has the recipe to launch Mac's built-in recorder "Apple Simple Sound" I would be grateful for a suggestion. Regards Signe Marie Sanne -- 1. amanuensis Signe Marie Sanne e-mail: signe.sanne at roman.uib.no Romansk Institutt tel: +47 55 58 21 27 Oysteins gt. 1 5007 Bergen http://www.hf.uib.no/hfolk/mlab/default.html Norway From benr_mc at cogapp.com Thu Mar 14 06:14:01 2002 From: benr_mc at cogapp.com (Ben Rubinstein) Date: Thu Mar 14 06:14:01 2002 Subject: Program Linking In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Richard, I agree with all of what you say about communication between Rev-based apps (or more to the point, between collaboratively developed apps, regardless of the development system); but that's just another whole ballpark. I have a number of utilities whose whole point is what they do to another standard app (eg to Outlook Express, or various browsers, or controlling a network of special multimedia apps in some interactive galleries). All of these need an elegant way to select the app. And I also agree that this shouldn't be the top priority for Rev/MC. I mentioned it once in improve-rev a few months ago, left it at that. But this thread started because someone else (JamesHBeckmann at aol.com) posted the specific question, > is there a "answer program" command, that works on Macs. To which the answer is no. But he got a lot of replies saying that he could do answer file etc etc etc which is not the same thing! I would stop there and promise to keep my mouth shut from now on.... ...But, yesterday sims posted > set fileAttachThis to choose file -- of type "TEXT" > set fileList to {fileAttachThis} > [snip] > do .... as applescript I thought this was yet another case of people thinking that answer program is a local file browser, rather a network process browser. And as posted, the code above is just that - a particularly long winded way of doing "answer file" (again!). But it did make me test and discover, what sims may have meant to post, that AppleScript has the functionality for answer program built in. Hence it turns out that an effective solution is possible, as simply as this: function answerProgram do "choose application" as applescript end answerProgram Phew! Now I'll shut up. Ben Rubinstein | Email: benr_mc at cogapp.com Cognitive Applications Ltd | Phone: +44 (0)1273-821600 http://www.cogapp.com | Fax : +44 (0)1273-728866 From sims at ezpzapps.com Thu Mar 14 06:39:01 2002 From: sims at ezpzapps.com (sims) Date: Thu Mar 14 06:39:01 2002 Subject: Program Linking In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: I (sims) meant that perhaps the answer for what you want lies within... I've been too busy to follow all that you (also longwinded ;-) were posting on your topic but did think I might have a clue for you. The bit of applescript I posted enables me to select some OSX apps which I could not access otherwise. I suspect you could also use "with prompt" but have not tested it. Glad it helped you. sims > But it did make me test and discover, what sims may >have meant to post, that AppleScript has the functionality for answer >program built in. Hence it turns out that an effective solution is >possible, as simply as this: > > function answerProgram > do "choose application" as applescript > end answerProgram > >Phew! Now I'll shut up. > ___________________________________________ http://EZPZapps.com info at EZPZapps.com Software - Internet Development - Consulting From wmb at internettrainer.com Thu Mar 14 08:53:01 2002 From: wmb at internettrainer.com (Wolfgang M. Bereuter) Date: Thu Mar 14 08:53:01 2002 Subject: Commercial Examples? In-Reply-To: <200203131708.MAA16987@www.runrev.com> Message-ID: am 13.03.2002 18:08 Uhr schrieb use-revolution-request at lists.runrev.com unter use-revolution-request at lists.runrev.com: > We're especially interested in products that are graphically > intense (taking advantage of the animation manager and/or QT) > and those that use Valentina or other external databases. We're > also interested in anyone that has commercial/near-commercial > INTERNET products written in Rev for sale now. > > We're just trying to get a better idea of the possibilities of > the tool. Examples are a great way for us to do that. We also > want to support Rev developers. I m looking for partners for distribution now and development in the near future. > We're also looking for anyone that has computer-based training > on Rev/MC available for sale. Yes, it?s my completly new user interface of a brainfriendly, accelareted and easy way of learning: Trainingsmaps? The first Trainingsmap? programm is: Internet for beginners (ife 1.0). But you (at the moment only me) can develop any theme with this interface. The first programm ife 1.0 is for sale now/ife 1.1 soon here in (Austria) until I have finishing the description. Should be next week? At the moment its german only. But I?ve designed it with the idea in mind of easy translating to any other language. You can see this at: http://www.internettrainer.com or download a demo: http://www.internettrainer.com/4service/1service.html The page is german to but you will uderstand this part - no doubt;) regards Wolfgang M. Bereuter Learn easy with trainingsmaps and outliner INTERNETTRAINER Wolfgang M. Bereuter Edelhofg. 17/11, A-1180 Wien, Austria ............................... http://www.internettrainer.com wmb at internettrainer.com ............................... Tel: ++43/1/ 961 0418 Fax: ++43/1/ 479 2539 From gcanyon at inspiredlogic.com Thu Mar 14 11:19:01 2002 From: gcanyon at inspiredlogic.com (Geoff Canyon) Date: Thu Mar 14 11:19:01 2002 Subject: Sound Recording on Windows Platform In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: At 11:07 AM +0100 3/14/02, Signe Marie Sanne wrote: >If someone has the recipe to launch Mac's built-in recorder "Apple Simple Sound" I would be grateful for a suggestion. The four character creator code is sSnd -- note the capitalization. Instructions for launching it based solely on the creator code can be found at: and If for any reason they're not available, check with me off-list -- I have the text. regards, Geoff From Roger.E.Eller at sealedair.com Thu Mar 14 13:04:00 2002 From: Roger.E.Eller at sealedair.com (Roger.E.Eller at sealedair.com) Date: Thu Mar 14 13:04:00 2002 Subject: Importing TIF graphics Message-ID: Apparently, Rev doesn't support the TIF graphic format. Does anyone know how to convert TIF files to any supported format through scripting? Or can someone recommend a DOS-based tool to do this via shell commands passed from Rev? This needs to work primarily in a PC running Windows. Thanks. Roger Eller From ceccoing at tin.it Thu Mar 14 16:26:01 2002 From: ceccoing at tin.it (Francesco LIVRAGHI) Date: Thu Mar 14 16:26:01 2002 Subject: revGOURL in O.S. Windows Message-ID: <3C9114F1.C2B6F9D3@tin.it> Sorry, the problem is that I'm not able to open into a browser an html page stored on my hard disk with: revGoURL "file:testhtml.htm" and also revGoURL "http://www.runrev.com" does not work under Windows environment! In my tests these commands open only the browser... regards From zelston at aol.com Thu Mar 14 16:47:01 2002 From: zelston at aol.com (Zac Elston) Date: Thu Mar 14 16:47:01 2002 Subject: rounding up with < .5 ? In-Reply-To: <200203141702.MAA08880@www.runrev.com> Message-ID: I'd like to round 5.2 up to 6. Neither round or statround seem to allow me to do this. For both, using precision 0 gives me 5, -1 gives me 10 and 1 gives me 5.3. (I do understand the difference between the two) Is there a way to check if a var is an int or float? and convert? I can see doing do char evals with set the itemdel to "." if the number of items in MyNumb >1 then put item 1 of MyNumb + 1 into MyRoundUpNum end if Maybe I'm going about this all wrong. any pointers? thanks -zac From JAMES.G.YATES at saic.com Thu Mar 14 17:03:01 2002 From: JAMES.G.YATES at saic.com (Yates, Glen) Date: Thu Mar 14 17:03:01 2002 Subject: rounding up with < .5 ? Message-ID: <33F0B58BF432D211B72200805FEFAAD905A5BD@hun-its-exs01.saic.com> If you always want to round up, why not just add 0.5 to the number you are rounding? -Glen > I'd like to round 5.2 up to 6. Neither round or statround > seem to allow me > to do this. For both, using precision 0 gives me 5, -1 gives > me 10 and 1 > gives me 5.3. (I do understand the difference between the two) From preid at reidit.co.uk Thu Mar 14 17:27:01 2002 From: preid at reidit.co.uk (Peter Reid) Date: Thu Mar 14 17:27:01 2002 Subject: revGOURL in O.S. Windows In-Reply-To: <3C9114F1.C2B6F9D3@tin.it> References: <3C9114F1.C2B6F9D3@tin.it> Message-ID: >Sorry, >the problem is that I'm not able to open into a browser an html page >stored on my hard disk with: > >revGoURL "file:testhtml.htm" > >and also > >revGoURL "http://www.runrev.com" > >does not work under Windows environment! > >In my tests these commands open only the browser... > >regards Which version of Rev are you using? I found this is a problem with Rev 1.0 and Win NT, 2k, XP but not Win 95, 98, ME. Rev 1.1 fixes the problem for all versions of Windows. Cheers Peter -- Peter Reid Reid-IT Limited, Loughborough, Leics., UK Tel: +44 (0)1509 268843 Fax: +44 (0)870 052 7576 E-mail: preid at reidit.co.uk Web: http://www.reidit.co.uk From subscriber at btopenworld.com Thu Mar 14 17:32:00 2002 From: subscriber at btopenworld.com (Subscriber) Date: Thu Mar 14 17:32:00 2002 Subject: rounding up with < .5 ? References: Message-ID: <001b01c1cba7$3ebd60e0$26b27ad5@server> Check out the trunc function. It only returns the integer part of a number. if trunc(x)=x then --check the number is an integer return x else return (trunc(x)+1) -- if not then return the next integer above end if I hope this is what you're after ! Regards Gary Rathbone ----- Original Message ----- From: "Zac Elston" To: Sent: Thursday, March 14, 2002 9:44 PM Subject: rounding up with < .5 ? > I'd like to round 5.2 up to 6. Neither round or statround seem to allow me > to do this. For both, using precision 0 gives me 5, -1 gives me 10 and 1 > gives me 5.3. (I do understand the difference between the two) > > Is there a way to check if a var is an int or float? and convert? > > I can see doing do char evals with > > set the itemdel to "." > if the number of items in MyNumb >1 then > put item 1 of MyNumb + 1 into MyRoundUpNum > end if > > Maybe I'm going about this all wrong. any pointers? > > thanks > > -zac > > _______________________________________________ > use-revolution mailing list > use-revolution at lists.runrev.com > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution From rupertus at netgate.com.uy Thu Mar 14 17:38:01 2002 From: rupertus at netgate.com.uy (Eduardo Di Santi) Date: Thu Mar 14 17:38:01 2002 Subject: Databases Message-ID: <3C91C1BD.E1B2ED60@netgate.com.uy> Hi, im evaluating revolution and i want to know if rev can conect to some databases and how. Thanks. From subscriber at btopenworld.com Thu Mar 14 17:49:01 2002 From: subscriber at btopenworld.com (Subscriber) Date: Thu Mar 14 17:49:01 2002 Subject: rounding up with < .5 ? References: <33F0B58BF432D211B72200805FEFAAD905A5BD@hun-its-exs01.saic.com> Message-ID: <003c01c1cba9$c0f4ba20$26b27ad5@server> Not sure just adding 0.5 would give the required result (if I understand the problem correctly). ie tresult=round(x+0.5) With three examples for x say 3.9, 4.0, and 4.1 tresult returns 4, 5 and 5 As the middle number is an integer then I'd guess it doesn't need rounding up, so the required results should be 4,4,5. Unless I missed something.... Please see my other post relating to TRUNC. Regards Gary Rathbone ----- Original Message ----- From: "Yates, Glen" To: Sent: Thursday, March 14, 2002 9:58 PM Subject: RE: rounding up with < .5 ? > If you always want to round up, why not just add 0.5 to the number you are > rounding? > > -Glen > > > I'd like to round 5.2 up to 6. Neither round or statround > > seem to allow me > > to do this. For both, using precision 0 gives me 5, -1 gives > > me 10 and 1 > > gives me 5.3. (I do understand the difference between the two) > _______________________________________________ > use-revolution mailing list > use-revolution at lists.runrev.com > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution From BradAllen at mac.com Thu Mar 14 17:50:00 2002 From: BradAllen at mac.com (Brad Allen) Date: Thu Mar 14 17:50:00 2002 Subject: Applescript variable contents In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: At 6:28 PM -0600 3/12/02, Brad Allen wrote: >That works well for sending values to an Applescript, and I just now >found out how get information to go the other way (from a variable >in Applescript to a variable in Revolution). Apparently the "do" >command returns a result containing whatever end up in the >Applescript "result" via the return statement. As it turns out, the return value from Applescript for some reason has all the carriage returns stripped out. It wants to return a value with only one line. I wonder if this is a fact about Applescript or about Revolution. -- From dsc at swcp.com Thu Mar 14 17:55:01 2002 From: dsc at swcp.com (Dar Scott) Date: Thu Mar 14 17:55:01 2002 Subject: rounding up with < .5 ? In-Reply-To: <33F0B58BF432D211B72200805FEFAAD905A5BD@hun-its-exs01.saic.com> Message-ID: On Thursday, March 14, 2002, at 02:58 PM, Yates, Glen wrote: > If you always want to round up, why not just add 0.5 to the number > you are > rounding? > This is a good idea. This will also round an positive integer to the next higher (more positive) one. If this is not what Zac wants, he can test for an integer and skip the round. Is there a way to test that a number is an integer in Revolution? Maybe one of these will work if a function is needed: function isInt n return n = trunc(n) end isInt or function isInt n return (n mod 1) = 0 end isInt When writing functions "floor" or "ceiling" (the math names for what we are talking about) or similar functions, you might want to check that they do what you want for negative numbers. The trunc() function might also be useful. You will want to be careful in using round() if you care how your function works for negative numbers. The dictionary entry says "If the number is exactly between two [integer] numbers, round always rounds the number up." If you interpret "up" as meaning "more positive", this is not the case. If you interpret "up" as toward the integer with the greater absolute value, then this is true. At least, this is how it works on OS X, Revolution 1.1.1 B1. The number -6.5 is rounded to -7. Dar Scott Some newbie guy From pdel at noos.fr Thu Mar 14 18:05:01 2002 From: pdel at noos.fr (Pierre Delain) Date: Thu Mar 14 18:05:01 2002 Subject: Insertion Point In-Reply-To: <200203141703.MAA08910@www.runrev.com> Message-ID: I have a stack with about twenty fields. In two of them (forming a group), the insertion bar does not appear when I click (of course the fields are not locked). I don't understand what happens, I search for a while and finally I discover that if I ungroup those two fields the insertion bar normally reappears. If I group them again, the bar re-becomes invisible... How can this strange phenomenon be explained and avoided? Thanks Pierre Delain From JAMES.G.YATES at saic.com Thu Mar 14 18:17:01 2002 From: JAMES.G.YATES at saic.com (Yates, Glen) Date: Thu Mar 14 18:17:01 2002 Subject: rounding up with < .5 ? Message-ID: <33F0B58BF432D211B72200805FEFAAD905A5BE@hun-its-exs01.saic.com> Yes, you are right, my solution fails when you start with an integer. In answering this question I was thinking back to a way of rounding by adding .5 then trunicating. But, if MC/Rev rounded properly, it would work for your example, i.e. 4.5 should round to 4 however it would still fail for odd numbers, i. e. 5.5 should round to 6 -Glen > Not sure just adding 0.5 would give the required result (if I > understand the > problem correctly). > ie > tresult=round(x+0.5) > > With three examples for x say 3.9, 4.0, and 4.1 > tresult returns 4, 5 and 5 > > As the middle number is an integer then I'd guess it doesn't > need rounding > up, so the required results should be 4,4,5. Unless I missed > something.... > > Please see my other post relating to TRUNC. > > Regards > > Gary Rathbone > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution > From ceccoing at tin.it Thu Mar 14 18:19:01 2002 From: ceccoing at tin.it (Francesco LIVRAGHI) Date: Thu Mar 14 18:19:01 2002 Subject: revGOURL in O.S. Windows References: <3C9114F1.C2B6F9D3@tin.it> Message-ID: <3C912F6E.4E670459@tin.it> It is Rev. 1.1 with Windows Engine rev 2.3.2.1 under Win2K regards Francesco > Which version of Rev are you using? I found this is a problem with > Rev 1.0 and Win NT, 2k, XP but not Win 95, 98, ME. Rev 1.1 fixes the > problem for all versions of Windows. > From dsc at swcp.com Thu Mar 14 18:19:07 2002 From: dsc at swcp.com (Dar Scott) Date: Thu Mar 14 18:19:07 2002 Subject: rounding up with < .5 ? In-Reply-To: <001b01c1cba7$3ebd60e0$26b27ad5@server> Message-ID: <53A7821C-37A1-11D6-9A56-0050E4C0B205@swcp.com> On Thursday, March 14, 2002, at 03:26 PM, Subscriber wrote: > if trunc(x)=x then --check the number is an integer > return x > else > return (trunc(x)+1) -- if not then return the next integer > above > end if I like this. However, one has to add a comment line mentioning that it works funny with negative numbers. Otherwise, it will jump up and bite you months or years down the road. Standing on Gary's shoulders, I suggest something like this to handle negative numbers, too: function ceiling n if trunc(n)=n then return n else if n>0 then return trunc(n)+1 else return trunc(n) end if end if end ceiling Once you get the bugs out of it (I typed it in off the top of my head), this function will last you a lifetime. The ceiling function is found in many calculation methods and has an agreed-upon meaning. Dar Scott From GSaylor at ATP.com Thu Mar 14 20:42:01 2002 From: GSaylor at ATP.com (Greg Saylor) Date: Thu Mar 14 20:42:01 2002 Subject: What's your vector, Victor? Message-ID: <751AC1038CDDD2118753080009FCD55501B26558@m1.atp.com> Hello, I am attempting to place a background on a page which is intended for printing. As a raster image, ths size of this graphic (at 300 dpi) seems to be too much for Eevolution to handle. In addition, since there does seem to be any way of "scaling" the development environment windows, manipulating a window which contains such an image seems very difficult. As a result of this (please correct me if any of my above statements are incorrect), I have decided to instead use vector-based graphics for the background. So I began using the drawing tools inside of Revolution to design my background and this worked fine, it printed out nicely and everything is coming along nicely. However, I am no artist and the existing graphics are already in a vector-based format. At first I was going to write the parser for one of these vector formats inside of Revolution itself, but then I realized that this would be overkill. What I would now like to do is create a file with a slew of "Revolution" instructions for resizing and drawing and resizing a stack. I have successfully created this file and created a button for locating the file and reading it in, but I have no idea how to actually get Revolution to execute the commands. The commands are something like this: --set the height and width of the stack set the height of this stack to 612 set the width of this stack to 792 --graphic 1 create graphic "graphic1" set the height of graphic "graphic1" to 1 set the width of graphic "graphic1" to 792 move graphic "graphic1" to 1,10 Cutting and pasting the text of the script seems very inelegant to me and I want it to basically be able to read this file one line at a time executing each command in turn.... Thanks as always! - Greg -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From GSaylor at ATP.com Thu Mar 14 21:39:01 2002 From: GSaylor at ATP.com (Greg Saylor) Date: Thu Mar 14 21:39:01 2002 Subject: Apologies/test Message-ID: <751AC1038CDDD2118753080009FCD55501B26559@m1.atp.com> I apologize if I have been sending HTML messages to the list. I didn't realize that this was happening. This is a test to make sure it has stopped happening. - Greg -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From sarahr at genesearch.com.au Thu Mar 14 21:52:01 2002 From: sarahr at genesearch.com.au (Sarah Reichelt) Date: Thu Mar 14 21:52:01 2002 Subject: What's your vector, Victor? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: I think you need the "do" command. Read in your file as you are doing and then use a loop to step through the file "doing" each line. I'm not sure if you could just "do" the whole file without the loop but that would be worth testing. -- file has been read & put into a variable called 'myFileData' do myFileData or repeat for each line L in myFileData do L end repeat Cheers, Sarah P.S. Your test message was still in HTML :-( > What I would now like to do is create a file with a slew of "Revolution" > instructions for resizing and drawing and resizing a stack. I have > successfully created this file and created a button for locating the file and > reading it in, but I have no idea how to actually get Revolution to execute > the commands. The commands are something like this: > > --set the height and width of the stack > set the height of this stack to 612 > set the width of this stack to 792 > --graphic 1 > create graphic "graphic1" > set the height of graphic "graphic1" to 1 > set the width of graphic "graphic1" to 792 > move graphic "graphic1" to 1,10 > > Cutting and pasting the text of the script seems very inelegant to me and I > want it to basically be able to read this file one line at a time executing > each command in turn.... > > Thanks as always! > > - Greg > From jacque at hyperactivesw.com Thu Mar 14 23:23:01 2002 From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (Jacqueline Landman Gay) Date: Thu Mar 14 23:23:01 2002 Subject: rounding up with < .5 ? In-Reply-To: <200203150241.VAA22067@www.runrev.com> Message-ID: <153D4D52-37CC-11D6-B865-003065D2A46A@hyperactivesw.com> On Thursday, March 14, 2002, at 08:41 PM, "Subscriber" wrote: > if trunc(x)=x then --check the number is an integer > return x > else > return (trunc(x)+1) -- if not then return the next integer > above > end if The above works fine, but just for the record, there is also the "is an integer" test: put 1 is an integer -- TRUE put 2.3 is an integer -- FALSE -- Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com From kray at sonsothunder.com Thu Mar 14 23:47:01 2002 From: kray at sonsothunder.com (Ken Ray) Date: Thu Mar 14 23:47:01 2002 Subject: What's your vector, Victor? References: Message-ID: <007b01c1cbdb$e58a5890$57f0bc42@mckinley.dom> > repeat for each line L in myFileData > do L > end repeat Actually, Sarah, you should be able to "do" a multi-lined container, and Rev will execute it one line at a time, as in: do myFileData Gotta love it... Ken Ray Sons of Thunder Software Email: kray at sonsothunder.com Web Site: http://www.sonsothunder.com/ From dsc at swcp.com Fri Mar 15 00:31:01 2002 From: dsc at swcp.com (Dar Scott) Date: Fri Mar 15 00:31:01 2002 Subject: Getting the local IP address! (was Re: Scanning machines on a network) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <425297F5-37D5-11D6-9A56-0050E4C0B205@swcp.com> On Monday, March 11, 2002, at 06:09 PM, Sarah Reichelt wrote: > Here is a script to get your local IP address and store it in a field: > > local testSock > > on mouseUp > put line 1 of hostnametoaddress("yahoo.com")& ":80|testSocket" \ > into testSock > open socket to testSock with message "socketReady" > end mouseUp > > on socketReady pSock > put hostAddress(pSock) into fld "Local IP address" > close socket testSock > end socketReady Here is a script that works on Windows 2000. I rejected it earlier, because it did not work on OS X. Since other features of UDP that work on W2K also work on Mac OS 9 (I hear), this might, too. This method does not actually touch another computer. (The open for UDP does not initiate a connection dialog between computers as open for TCP would; the local computer simply gets ready to send packets and in this case none are sent.) local testSock on mouseUp put "255.255.255.255:43222" into testSock open datagram socket to testSock -- opens immediately on Win2K put hostAddress(testSock) into field "Local IP Address" close socket testSock end mouseUp This could be made into a function. Yay! I like functions. (There might be another method using "shell" or "read from process" but for some reason those don't seem to be supported on OS X; the OS X icon is crossed out for those commands in the dictionary.) Should anybody check out this script on Linux or Mac OS, I'd be pleased to hear how it works. Dar Scott Revolution Newbie near the northern Rio Grande From dsc at swcp.com Fri Mar 15 00:40:01 2002 From: dsc at swcp.com (Dar Scott) Date: Fri Mar 15 00:40:01 2002 Subject: rounding up with < .5 ? In-Reply-To: <153D4D52-37CC-11D6-B865-003065D2A46A@hyperactivesw.com> Message-ID: <75EA89F7-37D6-11D6-9A56-0050E4C0B205@swcp.com> On Thursday, March 14, 2002, at 09:21 PM, Jacqueline Landman Gay wrote: > The above works fine, but just for the record, there is also the > "is an integer" test: > > put 1 is an integer -- TRUE > put 2.3 is an integer -- FALSE When I looked in the dictionary by entering "integer" in the find field, I came up with nothing. So, just as Gary did, I used trunc(n)=n. I now see I should have entered "is a" into the find field. Dar Scott Who depends on the Transcript Dictionary From undo at cloud9.net Fri Mar 15 01:12:01 2002 From: undo at cloud9.net (andu) Date: Fri Mar 15 01:12:01 2002 Subject: Getting the local IP address! (was Re: Scanning machines on a network) References: <425297F5-37D5-11D6-9A56-0050E4C0B205@swcp.com> Message-ID: <3C918E99.E5912D50@cloud9.net> Dar Scott wrote: > > On Monday, March 11, 2002, at 06:09 PM, Sarah Reichelt wrote: > > > Here is a script to get your local IP address and store it in a field: > > > > local testSock > > > > on mouseUp > > put line 1 of hostnametoaddress("yahoo.com")& ":80|testSocket" \ > > into testSock > > open socket to testSock with message "socketReady" > > end mouseUp > > > > on socketReady pSock > > put hostAddress(pSock) into fld "Local IP address" > > close socket testSock > > end socketReady > > Here is a script that works on Windows 2000. I rejected it > earlier, because it did not work on OS X. Since other features of > UDP that work on W2K also work on Mac OS 9 (I hear), this might, > too. > > This method does not actually touch another computer. (The open > for UDP does not initiate a connection dialog between computers as > open for TCP would; the local computer simply gets ready to send > packets and in this case none are sent.) > > local testSock > on mouseUp > put "255.255.255.255:43222" into testSock > open datagram socket to testSock -- opens immediately on Win2K > put hostAddress(testSock) into field "Local IP Address" > close socket testSock > end mouseUp > > This could be made into a function. Yay! I like functions. > > (There might be another method using "shell" or "read from process" > but for some reason those don't seem to be supported on OS X; the > OS X icon is crossed out for those commands in the dictionary.) > > Should anybody check out this script on Linux or Mac OS, I'd be > pleased to hear how it works. On Linux as expected it doesn't work. What exactly are you opening the socket to and what good would that ip address be if you're not networked as you imply or if you are networked and get your IP address from DHCP which happens more often then not. For same machine communication 127.0.0.1 is the standard. Luckily you can not cut yourself with it. > > Dar Scott > Revolution Newbie near the northern Rio Grande > > _______________________________________________ > use-revolution mailing list > use-revolution at lists.runrev.com > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution -- ____________________ Regards, Andu Novac From dsc at swcp.com Fri Mar 15 02:02:00 2002 From: dsc at swcp.com (Dar Scott) Date: Fri Mar 15 02:02:00 2002 Subject: Getting the local IP address! (was Re: Scanning machines on a network) In-Reply-To: <3C918E99.E5912D50@cloud9.net> Message-ID: On Thursday, March 14, 2002, at 11:03 PM, andu wrote: > On Linux as expected it doesn't work. Actually, I naively thought it would. Does it work for an Internet address (such as that for yahoo.com) or for an arbitrary address in your LAN subnet? > What exactly are you opening the > socket to Broadcast. I could have chosen some other address, such as the one for yahoo.com that Sarah's script used. (I have a vague hope that on a multihomed system 255.255.255.255 would get the primary IP address, but I have no real reason to think this. Also, I prefer a method that would work even on a LAN without Internet access. Using a valid Internet IP address on a multihomed system will probably get the address for an adaptor with Internet access.) > and what good would that ip address be if you're not networked > as you imply Whoops. I didn't mean to imply that. Sarah's method depends on being connected to the Internet. I didn't want to be limited to that. Another advantage of not making a connection is related to manners; I was not comfortable with connecting to yahoo.com to find out my IP address. (For me it is also a matter of security; I don't want computers on some of my systems babbling more than they need to.) > or if you are networked and get your IP address from DHCP > which happens more often then not. Using DHCP should not keep this from working. However, an app should not store this to disk for use next time it is run; it should find it each time it is run. Why would an application need to know its own computer's IP address? Well... Well, here is one reason, the one that prompted this discussion: I had suggested (in a response to a query by Richard) that one way to check on serial number clashes in applications is to have all of those apps broadcast serial numbers on the LAN. (To some port he might pick out of a hat.) All apps would receive the broadcasts. A serial number clash occurs if an app receives one that is the same as its AND it comes in a datagram from _another_ computer. One way to check that it came from another computer is to check the IP address. Also, I know one company that uses the IP address to check that an app (part of a complex distributed system) is running on the right computer. > For same machine communication > 127.0.0.1 is the standard. Using that for this method will get you 127.0.0.1 in all cases that I've seen. > Luckily you can not cut yourself with it. I find 127.0.0.1 to be useful. Dar Scott From osnut at pacbell.net Fri Mar 15 02:11:01 2002 From: osnut at pacbell.net (Tom Emerson) Date: Fri Mar 15 02:11:01 2002 Subject: Apologies/test In-Reply-To: <751AC1038CDDD2118753080009FCD55501B26559@m1.atp.com> Message-ID: <00da01c1cbf0$dab3f1a0$cb10fea9@emerson.glendale.ca.net> -----Original Message----- > From: Greg Saylor > > I apologize if I have been sending HTML messages to the list. > I didn't realize that this was happening. This is a test > to make sure it has stopped happening. Not that I mind myself, but this came in as formatted/html on my client (outlook). However, a clue from the html content leads me to believe that while you tried, something beyond your control negated your efforts. In particular, the line: tells me this was processed by a real MS Exchange server, and not a case of coming from your [outlook] client straight to your ISP's server. MSex 5.5 has this nasty habit of converting plain-text messages to HTML without the sender's permission or knowledge. One "admission" of this problem can be found here: http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx?scid=kb;EN-US;q222508 It only gets worse with MSEx2k -- although I cannot find it any longer, there is a "known bug" that will convert plain-text to HTML when the outbound virus scanner "opens" the message. The "bug" has to do with the fact that OPENING a message causes the "use-html" flag to get set; if you fail to reset that flag when you close it, it stays as html. Of course, the AV scanning software knows nothing of this flag (nor what it used to be set to), so it inadvertantly changes the outbound format... From koenner at t-online.de Fri Mar 15 03:16:01 2002 From: koenner at t-online.de (Ralf K=?ISO-8859-1?B?9g==?=nner) Date: Fri Mar 15 03:16:01 2002 Subject: Importing TIF graphics Message-ID: Roger, an idea might be to install a registered Pro version of QuickTime on that PC and try to use the import and export features of QT. I haven't done that yet but I think it is worth a try. Good luck, Ralf > Apparently, Rev doesn't support the TIF graphic format. > > Does anyone know how to convert TIF files to any supported format through > scripting? Or can someone recommend a DOS-based tool to do this via shell > commands passed from Rev? This needs to work primarily in a PC running > Windows. Thanks. > > Roger Eller From undo at cloud9.net Fri Mar 15 03:23:01 2002 From: undo at cloud9.net (andu) Date: Fri Mar 15 03:23:01 2002 Subject: Getting the local IP address! (was Re: Scanning machines on a network) References: Message-ID: <3C91AD61.DE0A5148@cloud9.net> Dar Scott wrote: > > On Thursday, March 14, 2002, at 11:03 PM, andu wrote: > > On Linux as expected it doesn't work. > > Actually, I naively thought it would. Does it work for an Internet > address (such as that for yahoo.com) or for an arbitrary address in > your LAN subnet? Yes. > > > What exactly are you opening the > > socket to > > Broadcast. I could have chosen some other address, such as the one > for yahoo.com that Sarah's script used. (I have a vague hope that > on a multihomed system 255.255.255.255 would get the primary IP > address, but I have no real reason to think this. Also, I prefer a > method that would work even on a LAN without Internet access. > Using a valid Internet IP address on a multihomed system will > probably get the address for an adaptor with Internet access.) Ipconfig on windows, ifconfig on Linux with the shell() function should be most reliable. > > > and what good would that ip address be if you're not networked > > as you imply > > Whoops. I didn't mean to imply that. Sarah's method depends on > being connected to the Internet. I didn't want to be limited to > that. Another advantage of not making a connection is related to > manners; I was not comfortable with connecting to yahoo.com to find > out my IP address. (For me it is also a matter of security; I > don't want computers on some of my systems babbling more than they > need to.) Connecting to your router should do, then. The idea is that if you don't want to or can't use built-in tools like ipconfig/ifconfig (must be some way for Mac too) you must use some external reference point to find out the IP address. > Dar Scott > > _______________________________________________ > use-revolution mailing list > use-revolution at lists.runrev.com > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution -- ____________________ Regards, Andu Novac From shaosean at unitz.ca Fri Mar 15 03:34:01 2002 From: shaosean at unitz.ca (Shao Sean) Date: Fri Mar 15 03:34:01 2002 Subject: "link" text Message-ID: <001201c1cbfb$c46c8280$88b15bd1@lanfear> has anyone else noticed that having two "linked" (grouped) texts beside each other, with no space, will link the two together example: -- in a button on mouseUp set the htmlText of field "New Field 1" to \ "1" & \ "2" end mouseUp -- in a field (called "New Field 1") on linkClicked pText put pText end linkClicked this will put "12" into the field, with a linkText different for both numbers (1=moo, 2=oink).. yet when i click on 2 it says "moo" instead of "oink" From kmajor at metascape.org Fri Mar 15 04:22:01 2002 From: kmajor at metascape.org (Klaus Major) Date: Fri Mar 15 04:22:01 2002 Subject: Importing TIF graphics In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <6E53540A-37F5-11D6-B56A-003065D52E8E@metascape.org> Hi Roger, > Roger, > > an idea might be to install a registered Pro version of QuickTime on > that PC > and try to use the import and export features of QT. I haven't done > that yet > but I think it is worth a try. > > Good luck, > > Ralf > >> Apparently, Rev doesn't support the TIF graphic format. >> >> Does anyone know how to convert TIF files to any supported format >> through >> scripting? Or can someone recommend a DOS-based tool to do this via >> shell >> commands passed from Rev? This needs to work primarily in a PC running >> Windows. Thanks. >> >> Roger Eller maybe this is suitable for you: If QuickTime is installed you can set the filename of a player to the .tif-file. So you could display it in MC without trouble :-) No conversion needed... Maybe this helps, maybe not ;-) Regards Klaus Major kmajor at metascape.org From dsc at swcp.com Fri Mar 15 04:30:01 2002 From: dsc at swcp.com (Dar Scott) Date: Fri Mar 15 04:30:01 2002 Subject: Getting the local IP address! (was Re: Scanning machines on a network) In-Reply-To: <3C91AD61.DE0A5148@cloud9.net> Message-ID: <9858F46A-37F6-11D6-9A56-0050E4C0B205@swcp.com> On Friday, March 15, 2002, at 01:14 AM, andu wrote: > Connecting to your router should do, then. The idea is that if you > don't > want to or can't use built-in tools like ipconfig/ifconfig (must > be some > way for Mac too) you must use some external reference point to find out > the IP address. There's the rub. You have helped me get my thoughts together on this: A nice solution would be platform independent. Using a different method for each platform is awkward. The next platform might not be included. The ipconfig/ifconfig solution is reliable, but will only work on two classes of platforms. There is no shell command for Rev on OS X yet, it seems. The hostAddress() of a UDP socket to a broadcast address works for W2K, but (assuming I understood Andu right) does not work for Linux. The hostAddress() of a UDP socket to a public IP address will probably only work if the computer knows a gateway to the Internet. I worry the open would fail if there is only a closed LAN. (I haven't tested this.) The hostAddress() of a UDP socket to an arbitrary private address might fail for the same reason; it is not likely to be in the local subnet. If a person writes a stack and has no idea of the what LAN it will eventually run on, how does that stack get the local IP? It looks to me that there is no good way to get the local IP address in Revolution. Thanks Andu for letting me know about hostAddress of a UDP socket to a boardcast address not working on Linux. And thanks for helping me think through this. Dar From wow at together.net Fri Mar 15 06:55:01 2002 From: wow at together.net (Richard D. Miller) Date: Fri Mar 15 06:55:01 2002 Subject: Commercial Examples? Training? In-Reply-To: <13030272.7837@webbox.com> Message-ID: We continue to have great success with our Rev CD, having shipped over 600 copies in the past 6 weeks with no returns and many congratulations from our customers. It's working fine on Windows 95/98/2000/ME/XP/XP Pro and Mac OS9/OSX. Our program is rather graphic intensive, so we've had a few minor problems with Win 95 users who didn't have enough RAM. But that's about it. Info on the CD is here: http://www.thewoodexchange.info/woodexplorer.html -- Richard Miller The Wood Exchange.info http://www.thewoodexchange.info 802-238-5355 802-951-2534 fax > > Hi, > > I know this has been asked before, but does anyone have any commercial > products developed in Rev that are available for sale now? Or > at least professional-quality examples? (Apart from the typing > tutor and what's on the MetaCard app examples page? We know > Rev is young, but...?) > > We're especially interested in products that are graphically > intense (taking advantage of the animation manager and/or QT) > and those that use Valentina or other external databases. We're > also interested in anyone that has commercial/near-commercial > INTERNET products written in Rev for sale now. > > We're just trying to get a better idea of the possibilities of > the tool. Examples are a great way for us to do that. We also > want to support Rev developers. > > ------------------------------------------------------ > > We're also looking for anyone that has computer-based training > on Rev/MC available for sale. > > Most of our developers do not have a Hypercard background, so > it's a different way of thinking for us. We would love to see > narrated screen-capture MPEGs of someone using the tool on example > projects or the like. Might this even be something RR itself > would tackle as a supplemental product? > > I don't think anyone has done this yet, but I think it would > help speed the adoption of the tool. I know that we are holding > out to buy more licenses until we get more comfortable with Rev's > capabilities. The written tuturials are a bit slow-going. > > ----------------------------------------------------- > Finally, does Rev support "drag and drop" operations (like one > can achieve with Flash,etc.)? > > Many thanks. > > - David > > > _______________________________________________ > use-revolution mailing list > use-revolution at lists.runrev.com > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution From Doug_Ivers at lord.com Fri Mar 15 08:30:01 2002 From: Doug_Ivers at lord.com (Ivers, Doug E) Date: Fri Mar 15 08:30:01 2002 Subject: Insertion Point Message-ID: <6150F6099DBED111852E0008C7241464049B36FE@NTSRV-CRD04> I've seen the same problem. -- D > -----Original Message----- > From: Pierre Delain [mailto:pdel at noos.fr] > Sent: Thursday, March 14, 2002 6:04 PM > To: use-revolution at lists.runrev.com > Subject: Insertion Point > > > I have a stack with about twenty fields. In two of them > (forming a group), > the insertion bar does not appear when I click (of course the > fields are not > locked). I don't understand what happens, I search for a > while and finally I > discover that if I ungroup those two fields the insertion bar normally > reappears. If I group them again, the bar re-becomes invisible... > > How can this strange phenomenon be explained and avoided? > > > Thanks > > Pierre Delain > > _______________________________________________ > use-revolution mailing list > use-revolution at lists.runrev.com > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution > From os at brainbits.net Fri Mar 15 08:40:00 2002 From: os at brainbits.net (Olaf Schmidtmann) Date: Fri Mar 15 08:40:00 2002 Subject: [ODBC] Connection problems Message-ID: <10F85FB0AADBD511880F004854133BC8012EA8@HAWK> Hi list, are there any known issues with Rev on winNT connecting Access DBs (or mySQL) via ODBC? I read the manual carefully, installed the ODBC sources but I always end up with an error statement "[...] Data source name not found and no default driver specified". I tested this with Access dbs locally with and without a password. I can access them with MS Access without any problems. I CAN connect to the mySQL DB directly, which is great so far but I cannot build some tests because I only have the free edition (until we decide to work with Rev). I?d appreciate any hint very much! Regards, Olaf -- Olaf Schmidtmann brainbits online & cross media mailto:os at brainbits.net / www.brainbits.net From os at brainbits.net Fri Mar 15 08:56:01 2002 From: os at brainbits.net (Olaf Schmidtmann) Date: Fri Mar 15 08:56:01 2002 Subject: [ODBC] Connection problems Message-ID: <10F85FB0AADBD511880F004854133BC8012EAA@HAWK> Hi again, just for fun I entered the database?s name in the host name field and *WUPP!* it works. Well this is NOT logical for me but, hell, who cares if it works :-) Maybe this helps someone with the same problems (I didn?t find something in the archives). bye, Olaf > From: Olaf Schmidtmann [mailto:os at brainbits.net] > Sent: Friday, March 15, 2002 2:35 PM > > > Hi list, > are there any known issues with Rev on winNT connecting Access DBs (or > mySQL) via ODBC? > I read the manual carefully, installed the ODBC sources but I > always end up > with an error statement "[...] Data source name not found and > no default > driver specified". > I tested this with Access dbs locally with and without a > password. I can > access them with MS Access without any problems. > I CAN connect to the mySQL DB directly, which is great so far > but I cannot > build some tests because I only have the free edition (until > we decide to > work with Rev). > I?d appreciate any hint very much! > > Regards, > Olaf > > -- > Olaf Schmidtmann > brainbits > online & cross media > mailto:os at brainbits.net / www.brainbits.net > _______________________________________________ > use-revolution mailing list > use-revolution at lists.runrev.com > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution > From zelston at aol.com Fri Mar 15 10:09:01 2002 From: zelston at aol.com (Zac Elston) Date: Fri Mar 15 10:09:01 2002 Subject: rounding up with < .5 ? In-Reply-To: <200203150241.VAA22067@www.runrev.com> Message-ID: >>Check out the trunc function. It only returns the integer part of a number. Arg. That's perfect as it evals the interger part of the float, which is really what I wanted. I looked at everything else in the See Also list of the Docs, but not that one. Danke! -zac From ccondit at geo.umass.edu Fri Mar 15 10:38:01 2002 From: ccondit at geo.umass.edu (Chris Condit) Date: Fri Mar 15 10:38:01 2002 Subject: What's your vector, Victor? SVG Message-ID: Greg Saylor said: *snip* However, I am no artist and the existing graphics are already in a vector-based format. At first I was going to write the parser for one of these vector formats inside of Revolution itself, but then I realized that this would be overkill. I work on a Mac, and am a refugee from SuperCard, so what I do is save the file out of a CAD program as a pict file (which preserves its vector objects), and import that into SC. I then run a SC program to write a text file out that describes each object. I use that text file in a MC program to then convert the file to MC vector objects/text fields, and in the case of text fields, to assign them a name corresponding to their respective textData. Primative, round about, and it means you translate any 24-bit color into 8 bit color when it gets imported into SC, and re-translate it back to RGB when you create the object in MC, but it beats redrawing everything. Be happy to shoot you these "wonders" of programming "art" if you want to contact me off-list. about SVG: I've been trading e-mails with Scott (and Kevin) about importing vectors, and the possibility of adding Scalable Vector Graphics (SVG) to the MC engine. When/if MC adds SVG capability, any CAD program that can save objects in SVG format (as can Illustrator, among several others), will give us something we can import. Details are being kicked around, but it might not hurt to get folks interested in such to toss in their two-bits?.. -- -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From benr_mc at cogapp.com Fri Mar 15 11:45:00 2002 From: benr_mc at cogapp.com (Ben Rubinstein) Date: Fri Mar 15 11:45:00 2002 Subject: Importing TIF graphics In-Reply-To: Message-ID: on 15/3/02 8:12 AM, Ralf K?nner at koenner at t-online.de wrote: > an idea might be to install a registered Pro version of QuickTime on that PC > and try to use the import and export features of QT. I haven't done that yet > but I think it is worth a try. Shouldn't need the Pro version - Pro just unlocks features of the QuickTime Player (the user app), not of the underlying QuickTime system that Rev accesses. (Something Apple do not try very hard to clarify...) If any recent (3 or later?) version of QuickTime is installed, you should be able to use a player object instead of an image object to display a TIF image (if you need to convert the data into an image, I don't know enough about the QuickTime access in Rev to know if you can access it - but I suppose in the worst case you might be able to use the snapshot facility). Ben Rubinstein | Email: benr_mc at cogapp.com Cognitive Applications Ltd | Phone: +44 (0)1273-821600 http://www.cogapp.com | Fax : +44 (0)1273-728866 From giulio at cantoberon.it Fri Mar 15 12:28:01 2002 From: giulio at cantoberon.it (Giulio Mastrosanti) Date: Fri Mar 15 12:28:01 2002 Subject: Mysql and windows OS Message-ID: Hi, I'm playing a little with revolution and MySQL. No problems on my Mac. But on Windows i have a runtime error on REVDB.DLL. The drivers, I thought: But on the page specifyed on the Database Manager Help http://www.mysql.com/downloads/mysql-3.23.html I have only found the complete installation of the server and client (12 MB !). Where is the drivers installer and which is its name? Thanks, Giulio From Roger.E.Eller at sealedair.com Fri Mar 15 12:41:01 2002 From: Roger.E.Eller at sealedair.com (Roger.E.Eller at sealedair.com) Date: Fri Mar 15 12:41:01 2002 Subject: Importing TIF graphics Message-ID: > Shouldn't need the Pro version - Pro just unlocks features of the QuickTime > Player (the user app), not of the underlying QuickTime system that Rev > accesses. (Something Apple do not try very hard to clarify...) > > If any recent (3 or later?) version of QuickTime is installed, you should be > able to use a player object instead of an image object to display a TIF > image (if you need to convert the data into an image, I don't know enough > about the QuickTime access in Rev to know if you can access it - but I > suppose in the worst case you might be able to use the snapshot facility). > > Ben Rubinstein | Email: benr_mc at cogapp.com Thanks to everyone for the suggestions to try QuickTime. It works with many varieties of the TIF format, however it will not open a G3 or G4 (group 3 or 4 compression) format TIF. And unfortionately for me, G3 TIF is what I need to view. I even updated my QT to the latest available version. Bummer! Other options? Roger Eller From diskot123 at juno.com Fri Mar 15 12:54:00 2002 From: diskot123 at juno.com (diskot123 at juno.com) Date: Fri Mar 15 12:54:00 2002 Subject: use-revolution digest, Vol 1 #265 - 6 msgs Message-ID: <20020315.125000.364.9.diskot123@juno.com> >Hi again, >just for fun I entered the database?s name in the host name field and >*WUPP!* it works. Well this is NOT logical for me but, hell, who cares if it >works :-) Well yeah host should point to a DSN or some sort of ODBC style path to the database. The assumption is that the real host is set using the ODBC control panel. Tuviah From os at brainbits.net Fri Mar 15 12:54:20 2002 From: os at brainbits.net (Olaf Schmidtmann) Date: Fri Mar 15 12:54:20 2002 Subject: Mysql and windows OS Message-ID: <10F85FB0AADBD511880F004854133BC8012EB4@HAWK> Hi Giulio, I had problems with windows, too. Geoff from the Rev team helped me out. You need to have the libmysql.dll in on of your system directories. Preferable system or system32 but you can set the enviroment?s path variable to any directory and your system will be automatically search there, too. The libmysql.dll can be found in the mySQL release for win. There is a small zip on mysql.com, too, just providing you with the essential files. Look for the winclients-3.23.14.zip at mysql.com You don?t need to run a server on your machine. Check it out - it helped me. greetinx, Olaf -- Olaf Schmidtmann brainbits online & cross media mailto:os at brainbits.net / www.brainbits.net > From: Giulio Mastrosanti [mailto:giulio at cantoberon.it] > Sent: Friday, March 15, 2002 6:26 PM > > > Hi, > I'm playing a little with revolution and MySQL. > > No problems on my Mac. > > But on Windows i have a runtime error on REVDB.DLL. > The drivers, I thought: > > But on the page specifyed on the Database Manager Help > > http://www.mysql.com/downloads/mysql-3.23.html > > I have only found the complete installation of the server and > client (12 MB > !). > > Where is the drivers installer and which is its name? > > Thanks, > > > Giulio > > _______________________________________________ > use-revolution mailing list > use-revolution at lists.runrev.com > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution > From os at brainbits.net Fri Mar 15 13:21:00 2002 From: os at brainbits.net (Olaf Schmidtmann) Date: Fri Mar 15 13:21:00 2002 Subject: use-revolution digest, Vol 1 #265 - 6 msgs Message-ID: <10F85FB0AADBD511880F004854133BC8012EB6@HAWK> Hi Tuviah, > -----Original Message----- > From: diskot123 at juno.com [mailto:diskot123 at juno.com] > Sent: Friday, March 15, 2002 6:50 PM > > >Hi again, > >just for fun I entered the database?s name in the host name field and > >*WUPP!* it works. Well this is NOT logical for me but, hell, > who cares > if it > >works :-) > Well yeah host should point to a DSN or some sort of ODBC > style path to > the database. The assumption is that the real host is set > using the ODBC > control panel. right, quite stupid I didn?t recognize that. As I already stated before I was a little confused because of the field "Database" which is mandatory although you can enter whatever you like there using ODBC while using mySQL it is quite sensefull. bye, Olaf > > Tuviah > _______________________________________________ > use-revolution mailing list > use-revolution at lists.runrev.com > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution > From slu at cycast.com Fri Mar 15 13:27:01 2002 From: slu at cycast.com (steve lu) Date: Fri Mar 15 13:27:01 2002 Subject: What's your vector, Victor? SVG References: Message-ID: <001201c1cc4e$6cc527a0$9865fea9@office.comscore.com> What's your vector, Victor? SVGI am currently working on the very thing --- an SVG parser and renderer. Prototypes are provided at http://www.cycast.com/example.html since the 2D algorithm were implemented from scratch without using platform dependent code... it will be portable to Mac, Unix, or PocketPC. steve ----- Original Message ----- From: Chris Condit To: use-revolution at lists.runrev.com Sent: Friday, March 15, 2002 10:34 AM Subject: What's your vector, Victor? SVG Greg Saylor said: *snip* However, I am no artist and the existing graphics are already in a vector-based format. At first I was going to write the parser for one of these vector formats inside of Revolution itself, but then I realized that this would be overkill. I work on a Mac, and am a refugee from SuperCard, so what I do is save the file out of a CAD program as a pict file (which preserves its vector objects), and import that into SC. I then run a SC program to write a text file out that describes each object. I use that text file in a MC program to then convert the file to MC vector objects/text fields, and in the case of text fields, to assign them a name corresponding to their respective textData. Primative, round about, and it means you translate any 24-bit color into 8 bit color when it gets imported into SC, and re-translate it back to RGB when you create the object in MC, but it beats redrawing everything. Be happy to shoot you these "wonders" of programming "art" if you want to contact me off-list. about SVG: I've been trading e-mails with Scott (and Kevin) about importing vectors, and the possibility of adding Scalable Vector Graphics (SVG) to the MC engine. When/if MC adds SVG capability, any CAD program that can save objects in SVG format (as can Illustrator, among several others), will give us something we can import. Details are being kicked around, but it might not hurt to get folks interested in such to toss in their two-bitsS.. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From katir at hindu.org Fri Mar 15 14:01:01 2002 From: katir at hindu.org (Sivakatirswami) Date: Fri Mar 15 14:01:01 2002 Subject: What's your vector, Victor? SVG In-Reply-To: <200203151703.MAA04776@www.runrev.com> Message-ID: on 3/15/02 7:03 AM, use-revolution-request at lists.runrev.com at use-revolution-request at lists.runrev.com wrote: > When/if MC adds SVG capability, any CAD program > that can save objects in SVG format (as can Illustrator, among > several others), will give us something we can import. > > Details are being kicked around, but it might not hurt to get folks > interested in such to toss in their two-bits We have a legacy of vector graphics numbering in the "10M plus" (an exaggeration.. but suffice to say LOTS) of image objects... all now basically unusable without conversion to .gif and the attendent loss of sharp resolution/scalability. Yes, we need this... Hinduism Today Sivakatirswami Editor's Assistant/Production Manager katir at hindu.org www.HinduismToday.com, www.HimalayanAcademy.com, www.Gurudeva.org, www.hindu.org Read The Master Course Lesson of the Day at http://www.gurudeva.org/lesson.shtml From kevin at runrev.com Fri Mar 15 14:27:01 2002 From: kevin at runrev.com (Kevin Miller) Date: Fri Mar 15 14:27:01 2002 Subject: Revolution 1.1.1B2/RC1 for Mac Message-ID: Hi Everyone, Beta 2 (effectively release candidate 1) of 1.1.1 is now available for the Mac OS X from: http://www.runrev.com/revolution/engines11/beta111/revolutionosx.sit Or Mac OS: http://www.runrev.com/revolution/engines11/beta111/revolution.sit Windows, Linux and UNIX to follow tomorrow. Everyone please test this release right away as we are just about ready to ship it as version 1.1.1 and then go straight into the test cycle for the next release which is largely ready to go too. Just about everything is fixed though there are a few minor things that we are aware of. We aren't planning to make any further changes unless something really serious comes back. Enjoy. Kevin Kevin Miller Runtime Revolution Limited - Power to the Developer! Tel: +44 (0) 870 747 1165. Fax: +44 (0)1639 830 707. From devin_asay at byu.edu Fri Mar 15 16:14:01 2002 From: devin_asay at byu.edu (Devin Asay) Date: Fri Mar 15 16:14:01 2002 Subject: Revolution 1.1.1B2/RC1 for Mac In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: >Hi Everyone, > >Beta 2 (effectively release candidate 1) of 1.1.1 is now available for the >Mac OS X from: > >http://www.runrev.com/revolution/engines11/beta111/revolutionosx.sit > >Or Mac OS: > >http://www.runrev.com/revolution/engines11/beta111/revolution.sit > >Windows, Linux and UNIX to follow tomorrow. > Bless you, Kevin and the rest of the RunRev team! I was hoping that your long silence meant that you were in seclusion giving birth to a new release. Downloading immediately. Devin -- Devin Asay Humanities Research Center Brigham Young University From zelston at aol.com Fri Mar 15 16:42:00 2002 From: zelston at aol.com (Zac Elston) Date: Fri Mar 15 16:42:00 2002 Subject: visuals and GO or show. In-Reply-To: <200203140752.CAA32665@www.runrev.com> Message-ID: > >How do I get a (push left) to occur within a handler after I used a (push > >right) in the previous handler? > > It should happen the next time you switch cards after issuing the "visual > effect" command. > > If it's not happening when you switch cards, is it possible the lockScreen > is true? clearly, I must be doing something incorrect. 1 stack, 3 cards, 2 buttons (next and back) next button reads on mouseup unlock screen go to next card visual push left end mouseup this does a 'go to next card" with no visual on the first click, then does a push for each subsequent go to. If I click the back button which is go to previous card visual push right, the first instance of a visual is always the previous visual (from the next button). The Visual is then used in any other handler that is called next (like opening the Dictionary or object props.) maybe it's a function of GO, because using show object visual works fine. related problem. on preopencard hide all items show first item end preopencard go to next card first item shows, then all other items hide. must be something simple here that I'm not seeing -Zac From k_major at osnabrueck.netsurf.de Fri Mar 15 17:21:01 2002 From: k_major at osnabrueck.netsurf.de (Klaus Major) Date: Fri Mar 15 17:21:01 2002 Subject: visuals and GO or show. In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Hi Zac, > utton reads > > on mouseup > unlock screen > go to next card visual push left > end mouseup > the syntax should be: on mouseup visual push left go next cd end mouseup to show/hide an object: on xxx show btn "xxx" with visual push left end xxx Hope this helps. Regards Klaus Major k_major at osnabrueck.netsurf.de From JohnRule at aol.com Fri Mar 15 17:24:01 2002 From: JohnRule at aol.com (JohnRule at aol.com) Date: Fri Mar 15 17:24:01 2002 Subject: Copying images Message-ID: How can I make sure that when I copy an image (or button with an image) to another stack, the image actually goes with it? Do I really have to get the image information, and then manually copy the image, and make it invisible? Thanks, JR From dsc at swcp.com Fri Mar 15 18:27:01 2002 From: dsc at swcp.com (Dar Scott) Date: Fri Mar 15 18:27:01 2002 Subject: Revolution 1.1.1B2/RC1 for Mac In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <9546C310-386B-11D6-9A56-0050E4C0B205@swcp.com> Wow! You guys are Really Fast! I was forming a query about callbacks and the it variable for "read from socket", when this notice came in. The new version dictionary makes it clear (or indicates a change such) that a parameter for the callback contains the data. (I can drop my "it" worries.). Getting a response before I even hit the send button is really great. Cool! Dar Scott Dar Scott Consulting From GSaylor at ATP.com Fri Mar 15 20:42:01 2002 From: GSaylor at ATP.com (Greg Saylor) Date: Fri Mar 15 20:42:01 2002 Subject: set style of graphic "test" to line -- doesn't work?... Message-ID: <751AC1038CDDD2118753080009FCD55501B26560@m1.atp.com> I apologize for my HTML messages... It is indeed the way this companies exchange server is configured, but I have some people looking into it.... In the meantime, I have read all of the responses to my "What's your vector, Victor?" message and I will respond to them when this server gets fixed... In the meantime I can't seem to get: create graphic "test" set the style of graphic "test" to line The error I get is: Script compile error: Error description: Expression: missing factor to work correctly... All other versions of this are okay, I can do a: set the style of graphic "test" to rectangle or set the style of graphic "test" to polygon etc.... However, the object I need is a line.. ;-( Is there a workaround for what appears to be a bug?... I have tried this with the beta version of Revolution on Mac OS-9, OS-X and W*ndows... I have also tried it with the non-beta version on HPUX, Solaris, Mac OS-9, OS-X, W*ndows and FreeBSD all with the same result..... - Greg -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From shaosean at unitz.ca Sat Mar 16 03:47:01 2002 From: shaosean at unitz.ca (Shao Sean) Date: Sat Mar 16 03:47:01 2002 Subject: sneak-peek: calendar object Message-ID: <009801c1ccc6$a86b4dc0$88b15bd1@lanfear> thought you guys (and girls =) might like to have a pre-look at my next "object" i've been working on.. http://dark.unitz.ca/~shaosean/calendar.gif pretty obvious that it's a calendar.. the picture is from the previous build and does not contain the "go today" feature.. i'm hoping to release the first version in a couple of days (free and open code of course) the features the most current build has: - shows the current month (displays it at the top where it says 'Month, Year') - can navigate to the previous/next month (can keep going until the date function breaks) - handles leap years - clickable dates (will return the date clicked for developer's to do stuff with) - handles foreign languages and european dates (all text is displayed in the language settings of the system) - ability to 'jump' back to today features to add: - better hiliting of today's date and clicked date - ability to 'jump' between months/years without having to click previous/next multiple times - auto-updating of "today's date" if anyone can think of anything else to add, please feel free to write.. From alexander at intermedia25.se Sat Mar 16 10:25:01 2002 From: alexander at intermedia25.se (Alexander Liden) Date: Sat Mar 16 10:25:01 2002 Subject: Something strange in the tutorial "The Animation Manager" Message-ID: <3C93628B.B825805B@intermedia25.se> Hi, I've just downloaded version 1.1.1 of Revolution on my Mac (OS 9.1). I thought I start out with the tutorials. As I started with the tutorial "The Animation Manager" all went well until I came to card 10 of 11. The instruction says To add this command to your ?Hello World? stack, open the script for the ?Show Me!? button, and replace the line: move field "My Field" to the location of this card with: revPlayAnimation "MyAnim" I did just that and then I tested the Stack by choosing the browse tool and clicked on the "Show me!" button. Sure enough the animation was executed. But then I clicked on the "Reset" button and when I clicked once more on the "Show me!" button the animation "MyAnim" didn't work any more. My explanation for this strange behaviour is as follows. The "Reset" button sends the message preOpenCard that the Card script traps. In the preOpenCard handler the first line is set the loc of field "My Field" to -100,-50 This line changes the settings of frame 20 in the animation "MyAnim". This can't possibly be the way how it's supposed to work. I've also built a stand alone application before destroying the animation with the Reset button and tried to run it. Then everything worked just fine, the Reset button didn't destroy anything. Am I doing something wrong or is it some bug in the Revolution itself? Regards Alex From markmac at shaw.ca Sat Mar 16 10:33:01 2002 From: markmac at shaw.ca (Mark MacKenzie) Date: Sat Mar 16 10:33:01 2002 Subject: sneak-peek: calendar object References: <009801c1ccc6$a86b4dc0$88b15bd1@lanfear> Message-ID: <001101c1ccef$9239dc00$a39a5518@ss.shawcable.net> Grabbed a quick peek. Looks good. I can hardly wait to sneak a peak under the Rev hood! Neat project and I think one that will be very useful. Regards Mark MacKenzie ----- Original Message ----- From: "Shao Sean" To: "Mail-List RunRev" Sent: Saturday, March 16, 2002 2:43 AM Subject: sneak-peek: calendar object > thought you guys (and girls =) might like to have a pre-look at my next > "object" i've been working on.. > > http://dark.unitz.ca/~shaosean/calendar.gif > > pretty obvious that it's a calendar.. the picture is from the previous build > and does not contain the "go today" feature.. i'm hoping to release the > first version in a couple of days (free and open code of course) > snip From dsc at swcp.com Sat Mar 16 13:06:00 2002 From: dsc at swcp.com (Dar Scott) Date: Sat Mar 16 13:06:00 2002 Subject: Something strange in the tutorial "The Animation Manager" In-Reply-To: <3C93628B.B825805B@intermedia25.se> Message-ID: On Saturday, March 16, 2002, at 08:19 AM, Alexander Liden wrote: > This line changes the settings of frame 20 in the animation "MyAnim". > Am I doing something wrong or is > it some bug in the Revolution itself? I tried the animation manager tutorial last night on OS X Rev 1.1.1 and had the same problem. I suspect we are doing something wrong. I think we need to disable the current frame or disable the manager or something like that. Just closing the window doesn't seem to do it, either. Dar Scott Revolution Newbie From lists at retiariusenterprises.com Sat Mar 16 16:46:01 2002 From: lists at retiariusenterprises.com (Retiarius) Date: Sat Mar 16 16:46:01 2002 Subject: 1.1.1 Launch Error? Message-ID: I'm getting a: The application "Revolution" could not be opened because "Revolution" could not be found (-2,806) error when trying to launch Revolution classic. (OS 9.2.1 & 9.2.2) Is anyone else getting this? -- David Retiarius Enterprises From gcanyon at inspiredlogic.com Sat Mar 16 22:06:01 2002 From: gcanyon at inspiredlogic.com (Geoff Canyon) Date: Sat Mar 16 22:06:01 2002 Subject: 1.1.1 Launch Error? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: At 2:44 PM -0700 3/16/02, Retiarius wrote: >I'm getting a: > >The application "Revolution" could not be opened because "Revolution" could >not be found (-2,806) > > error when trying to launch Revolution classic. (OS 9.2.1 & 9.2.2) > >Is anyone else getting this? I haven't tried it yet, but I saw that message once, and for me it was _bad_ corruption to the hard drive. It might not be for you, but have you run disk tools lately? gc From mark_mitchell at kmug.org Sun Mar 17 05:47:01 2002 From: mark_mitchell at kmug.org (Mark Mitchell) Date: Sun Mar 17 05:47:01 2002 Subject: sneak peak calendar In-Reply-To: <200203161708.MAA25611@www.runrev.com> References: <200203161708.MAA25611@www.runrev.com> Message-ID: use-revolution at lists.runrev.com writes: if anyone can think of anything else to add, please feel free to write.. My own 'bare-bones' calendar, not nearly as nice as yours me thinks, but it also puts today's 'notes' into a global variable, so that I can automatically display just todays notes in other apps without having to actually go to the calendar. I find that very useful. just a thought, mark mitchell japan From jeanne at runrev.com Sun Mar 17 06:19:01 2002 From: jeanne at runrev.com (Jeanne A. E. DeVoto) Date: Sun Mar 17 06:19:01 2002 Subject: finding topics already discussed In-Reply-To: References: <200202271609.LAA16957@www.runrev.com> Message-ID: (Sorry, late reply I just discovered in my out box.) At 2:38 AM -0800 2/28/2002, Wolfgang M. Bereuter wrote: >> We do have archives. You can browse them online or download them and search >> them. Online search is something we will do soon. >> >> http://lists.runrev.com/pipermail/use-revolution/ > >Thanks, thats great, but why it was so hidden until nor or I have missed the >info about it? It's in the header of each list message: List-Archive: (if your mailer is configured to suppress headers you might not have seen it). Also, there is a link on the main mailing-lists page on the web site. I'm not sure how else we might advertise it? >I dont know the solution behind this archive, but would it be much more work >to go back, let?s say, until 1.1.2000 ? We switched to new mailing-list software at the start of November, and the software we were using before then doesn't archive automatically. However, I do have a personal archive of messages between Jul 7 2001 (when the lists started) and the end of October, for both lists. I'm not sure about putting it into the web interface - suspect it's too much work - but if people would find the material useful, possibly I could upload it as an archive. (Just for comparison, there have been about 3500 messages on improve-revolution and use-revolution between November and now; there were about 1500 total between July and November.) -- Jeanne A. E. DeVoto ~ jeanne at runrev.com http://www.runrev.com/ Runtime Revolution Limited - Power to the Developer! From jeanne at runrev.com Sun Mar 17 06:21:00 2002 From: jeanne at runrev.com (Jeanne A. E. DeVoto) Date: Sun Mar 17 06:21:00 2002 Subject: Copying images In-Reply-To: Message-ID: At 2:22 PM -0800 3/15/2002, JohnRule at aol.com wrote: >How can I make sure that when I copy an image (or button with an image) to >another stack, the image actually goes with it? Do I really have to get the >image information, and then manually copy the image, and make it invisible? The way it works is that the icon property in a button refers to an image. Whatever's in that image gets displayed; the image data itself isn't contained in the button. (It's a little bit like the way referenced controls work. If you create a player and specify a filename for it, and then remove the file, the player can no longer display the movie because it's not there any longer.) As long as the image is going to be in some open stack file, the button will be able to find it and you'll be OK. The safest way is to make sure the image is in either the same stack, or a substack in the same stack file; that way it's always guaranteed to be available when the button is displayed. A good tactic for most purposes is to create a substack to hold images used as icons. You never have to open this substack, but since it's in the same file it's available to the button. It makes editing relatively simple too, since there are no invisible objects scattered around, and any images you may be using are in one stack you can open and edit or add to whenever you need to. -- Jeanne A. E. DeVoto ~ jeanne at runrev.com http://www.runrev.com/ Runtime Revolution Limited - Power to the Developer! From eijkhout at cs.utk.edu Sun Mar 17 10:57:01 2002 From: eijkhout at cs.utk.edu (Victor Eijkhout) Date: Sun Mar 17 10:57:01 2002 Subject: Editing buttons (fields, ... ) in browse mode Message-ID: Ok, with Option-Command I can open the script of a button while I'm in browse mode. But why doesn't hte properties box show me the other properties, such as the custom properties. I can edit the custom properties of a stack while in browse mode. What do I need to do to edit the properties of a button while in browse mode? -- Victor Eijkhout tel: 865 974 9308 (W), 865 673 6998 (H), 865 974 8296 (F) http://www.cs.utk.edu/~eijkhout/ From yvescoppe at skynet.be Sun Mar 17 11:02:00 2002 From: yvescoppe at skynet.be (yves COPPE) Date: Sun Mar 17 11:02:00 2002 Subject: Editing buttons (fields, ... ) in browse mode In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: >Ok, with Option-Command I can open the script of a button while I'm >in browse mode. But why doesn't hte properties box show me the other >properties, such as the custom properties. I can edit the custom >properties of a stack while in browse mode. What do I need to do to >edit the properties of a button while in browse mode? > >-- >Victor Eijkhout >tel: 865 974 9308 (W), 865 673 6998 (H), 865 974 8296 (F) >http://www.cs.utk.edu/~eijkhout/ Try control clic on the object, a pop up menu gives you access to the properties? -- Greetings. Yves COPPE Email : yvescoppe at skynet.be From rcozens at pon.net Sun Mar 17 11:02:06 2002 From: rcozens at pon.net (Rob Cozens) Date: Sun Mar 17 11:02:06 2002 Subject: sneak-peek: calendar object In-Reply-To: <009801c1ccc6$a86b4dc0$88b15bd1@lanfear> References: <009801c1ccc6$a86b4dc0$88b15bd1@lanfear> Message-ID: >if anyone can think of anything else to add, please feel free to write.. I'll be interested to see how you get the month & day names from Windows & Unix systems...I've only done it for Mac OS. As for additional features, I suggest the ability to designate whether Sunday or Monday is the first day of the week. So far as I know, not even Mac OS gives this as a user-defined setting. -- Rob Cozens CCW, Serendipity Software Company http://www.oenolog.com/who.htm "And I, which was two fooles, do so grow three; Who are a little wise, the best fooles bee." from "The Triple Foole" by John Donne (1572-1631) From eijkhout at cs.utk.edu Sun Mar 17 11:08:01 2002 From: eijkhout at cs.utk.edu (Victor Eijkhout) Date: Sun Mar 17 11:08:01 2002 Subject: Can I resize properties > field? Message-ID: I want to take a look at the contents of a field in the properties box. Problem is that the lines in the field are pretty long, and the properties box is pretty narrow, so it's hard to read because of the wrapping. It seems I can only resize the properties dialog vertically, not horizontally, if I'm looking at the field contents. (Why? After all I resize both ways when I'm looking at the script.) I've tried resizing while holding every modifier key and combo on my keyboard but no luck. Help? -- Victor Eijkhout tel: 865 974 9308 (W), 865 673 6998 (H), 865 974 8296 (F) http://www.cs.utk.edu/~eijkhout/ From martin at atwork.bdx.co.uk Sun Mar 17 11:11:00 2002 From: martin at atwork.bdx.co.uk (Martin Baxter) Date: Sun Mar 17 11:11:00 2002 Subject: system bloat problem with rev on 68K mac Message-ID: I have an old quadra 630 at home and I thought it would be useful to have revolution installed on it mainly so I could swot-up on the transcript dictionary when I'm at home and thinking about possible ideas. When I tried to run revolution on it though I found that the system's memory allocation just grows and grows until it has used up all the available ram, at which point of course everything chokes. The system is 7.6.1 and usually uses 5-6 megs of ram out of a total of 40 megs (36physical and 4 virtual). The system consumes about 24 megs in the process of loading revolution completely. Watching the "about this computer" window while it loads and then once I'd begun to work in the program, it looks like the system never releases any memory, most every time revolution does something the system just grabs another chunk until eventually it has grown too big for the available space and everything comes grinding to a halt. This is the latest beta1.1.1 Classic that I downloaded on saturday, I haven't tried this with any previous versions so I don't know if it's something new or not. It doesn't seem like this ought to be happening really. Has anyone come across this before? Is it perhaps some conflict peculiar to my system? martin baxter martin baxter Cambridge UK From rcozens at pon.net Sun Mar 17 11:35:01 2002 From: rcozens at pon.net (Rob Cozens) Date: Sun Mar 17 11:35:01 2002 Subject: sneak-peek: calendar object In-Reply-To: References: <009801c1ccc6$a86b4dc0$88b15bd1@lanfear> Message-ID: >[moi]:I'll be interested to see how you get the month & day names >from Windows & Unix systems...I've only done it for Mac OS. Don't bother, I've figured it out. Just out of curiosity, are you using system calls or decyphering known dates converted using the long system date function? I already have a handler that can decypher the short date format from the long system date. Now I realize I can capture day and month names using the same technique. Thanks. -- Rob Cozens CCW, Serendipity Software Company http://www.oenolog.com/who.htm "And I, which was two fooles, do so grow three; Who are a little wise, the best fooles bee." from "The Triple Foole" by John Donne (1572-1631) From rcozens at pon.net Sun Mar 17 12:44:01 2002 From: rcozens at pon.net (Rob Cozens) Date: Sun Mar 17 12:44:01 2002 Subject: Date Formatting Without System Calls Message-ID: Hi All, For several years I've used a HyperTalk handler to determine the current Mac OS date panel settings without the aid of an external function. Thanks to the addition of the system date function (& I do mean THANKS, Scott), it is now possible to do the same in Transcript: function systemDateFormat put "1999,1,9,0,0,0,0" into testDate convert testDate to system date put 2 into characterNumber repeat while char characterNumber of testDate is in "1,9" add 1 to characterNumber end repeat put char characterNumber of testDate into dateSeparator put empty into dateFormat put the itemDelimiter into originalDelim set the itemDelimiter to dateSeparator repeat with x = 1 to 3 get item x of testDate if it > 9 then if it > 99 then put "y" after dateFormat put "y"&return after dateFormat else if it > 1 then if length(it) > 1 then put "d" after dateFormat put "d"&return after dateFormat else if length(it) > 1 then put "m" after dateFormat put "m"&return after dateFormat end if end repeat set the itemDelimiter to originalDelim return dateFormat&dateSeparator end systemDateFormat Discussions regarding the calendar prompted me to realize one can use the long system date in a similar manner to obtain month & day names: function systemMonth monthNumber if monthNumber < 1 or monthNumber > 12 then return empty --no support for the Hebrew calendar put "1999,"&monthNumber&",0,0,0,0,0" into testDate convert testDate to long system date get word 2 of testDate if it is a number then return word 3 of testDate else return it -- weak logic?? end systemMonth function systemDay dayOfWeek -- 0=Sun thru 6=Sat if dayOfWeek < 0 or dayOfWeek > 6 then return empty put "2002,3,17,0,0,0,0" into testDate -- a Sunday convert testDate to seconds add dayOfWeek * 86400 to testDate -- 86400 = 60*60*24 convert testDate to long system date get word 1 of testDate delete char offset(",",it) of it -- can day name have char other than "," after it? return it end systemDay One of my first "get acquainted with Revolution" projects will be to convert my HyperTalk & Xstuff libraries to Transcript. Once done, I will make same available for anyone who can find a use for them, and these and other date/time functions will be included. I'm posting these now because the subject arose, and to offer them for comment in case someone can see a better way. For example, the systemDate function requires decyphering the returned value to determine date element order, leading zeroes, full century, and/or date separator. -- Rob Cozens, CCW "Where but America can the person who lost the popular vote become President without a coup?" From yvescoppe at skynet.be Sun Mar 17 13:14:01 2002 From: yvescoppe at skynet.be (yves COPPE) Date: Sun Mar 17 13:14:01 2002 Subject: Date Formatting Without System Calls In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hello Atteniton please : function systemMonth monthNumber if monthNumber < 1 or monthNumber > 12 then return empty --no support for the Hebrew calendar put "1999,"&monthNumber&",0,0,0,0,0" into testDate convert testDate to long system date get word 2 of testDate if it is a number then return word 3 of testDate else return it -- weak logic?? end systemMonth this function doesn't return the correct month on my french system I've replaced the second line with : put "1999,"&monthNumber&",1,0,0,0,0" into testDate So, it gives the correct monthName Hope this help -- Greetings. Yves COPPE Email : yvescoppe at skynet.be From eijkhout at cs.utk.edu Sun Mar 17 14:48:01 2002 From: eijkhout at cs.utk.edu (Victor Eijkhout) Date: Sun Mar 17 14:48:01 2002 Subject: Editing buttons (fields, ... ) in browse mode Message-ID: At 12:09 -0500 17/3/2002, use-revolution-request at lists.runrev.com wrote: >Try control clic on the object, a pop up menu gives you access to the >properties? Not Mac OSX, 1.1.1b1, objects with mouseup handle. Those simply activate the mouseup handler. I do get such a popup if the pointer tool is active, but I would like to investigate the custom properties while in browse mode. -- Victor Eijkhout tel: 865 974 9308 (W), 865 673 6998 (H), 865 974 8296 (F) http://www.cs.utk.edu/~eijkhout/ From alexander at intermedia25.se Sun Mar 17 15:44:01 2002 From: alexander at intermedia25.se (Alexander Liden) Date: Sun Mar 17 15:44:01 2002 Subject: Something strange in the tutorial "The Animation Manager" Message-ID: <3C94FED2.11F820EB@intermedia25.se> Dar Scott wrote >>I tried the animation manager tutorial last night on OS X Rev 1.1.1 >>and had the same problem. >>I suspect we are doing something wrong. I think we need to disable >>the current frame or disable the manager or something like that. >>Just closing the window doesn't seem to do it, either. Suspecting is good but knowing is better. I can get rid of the Reset button's unintentional modification of the animation if I Save the Stack before I click on the Reset button. I think that there should be some other way to say to Revolution 'Hey I'm done with the animation, save it and don't mess with it'. Is there any way to do this other than saving the stack? I have still another question. Is Revolution version 1.1 (or 1.1.1) a stable product. Many times I get errors from Revolution even when I'm doing exactly by the manual. It's all right to have birth trouble, every new product has it, but I would like to know if other people experience the unstability of Revolution or am I the only one. Thanks Alex From pixelbird at interisland.net Sun Mar 17 16:37:01 2002 From: pixelbird at interisland.net (Ken Norris (dialup)) Date: Sun Mar 17 16:37:01 2002 Subject: system bloat problem with rev on 68K mac In-Reply-To: Message-ID: on 3/17/02 8:09 AM, Martin Baxter at martin at atwork.bdx.co.uk wrote: > I have an old quadra 630 at home and I thought it would be useful to have > revolution installed on it mainly so I could swot-up on the transcript > dictionary when I'm at home and thinking about possible ideas. ---------- So do I. We should collaborate because it's my intention to do the exact same thing onthe exact same machine (Quadra 630). ---------- > When I tried to run revolution on it though I found that the system's > memory allocation just grows and grows until it has used up all the > available ram, at which point of course everything chokes. > The system is 7.6.1 and usually uses 5-6 megs of ram out of a total of 40 > megs (36physical and 4 virtual). ---------- How did you get 40 mb out of a Quadra 630? Mine maxes out at 32 mb. 5-7 megs is just the sys space. Try to run anything and it jumps up vey quick. The Rev Dictionary will grab at least 60 mb or so, as soon as you open the thing. ---------- > Has anyone come across this before? Is it perhaps some conflict peculiar to > my system? ---------- Yes. Lots of conflict. I use Rev on a PB 1400c, 48 mb, 1.2 g drive. The only way I can use Rev at all on it is to allocate 128 mb to Virtual RAM. After a lot of frustrating experimentation, that's what I had to do to prevent 'soft' crashes. Anything less and sooner or later the system would hang indefinitely, requiring a forced restart. Of course, that means it's pretty slow, and it will still crash if I try to access any of the image libraries. I haven't even tried to load Rev onto the Quadra, because I know what will happen. The best solution, I think, and I may be slitting my own throat here because we may end up competing with each other, is to go on Ebay or somewhere and get a motherboard upgrade for the Quadra which either has, or can take, much more memory, then max out the memory. Without using Virtual RAM (very slow), I'm convinced you can't develop in REV with less than 128 mb, and even with that you'll probably can't have much else open. Remember, Rev is stack-based. I'm looking to upgrade the Quadra to go for 256 mb memory. If the price of doing it is too high, I'll just use it for docs access, per Geoff Canyon's life-saving _revrtfer.rev._ Actually, my Mac IIci, which is without a doubt my favorite 'old' Mac, can take a whopping 128 mb, probably more than any other computer of that age (we're talking 13 years ago). It has some kind of accelerator in it now (runs OS 7.6 just fine), but I've heard you can get up to a 60 mhz chip and motherboard, and nuBus RasterOps daughter board with extra video memory (which can produce millions of colors) for cheap. If I can get away with doing all that to it, I think I'll paint the case Candy Apple Red with flames on the sides! :). I'll have the sportiest Mac of that generation on the island where I live (Friday Harbor, San Juan Island, WA). I could probably run Rev on it OK. Best regards, Ken N. From derek.huby at ntlworld.com Sun Mar 17 17:02:01 2002 From: derek.huby at ntlworld.com (Derek Huby) Date: Sun Mar 17 17:02:01 2002 Subject: Minimizing a stack Message-ID: I realise I'm probably being a bit dense, but... I've got two stacks; let's call them A and B. A is an 'ordinary' window, but B is a palette, used to control A. If the user minimizes A (Windows/OS X), I want to close B, and then reopen it when A is restored; I don't want the palette to hang around when the window it controls isn't visible. So... ...how do I detect when a stack is minimized? Is a message sent to the stack? (I know that 'resizestack' isn't issued in these circumstances.) TIA, Derek -- Derek Huby From gcanyon at inspiredlogic.com Sun Mar 17 17:22:01 2002 From: gcanyon at inspiredlogic.com (Geoff Canyon) Date: Sun Mar 17 17:22:01 2002 Subject: system bloat problem with rev on 68K mac In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: At 4:09 PM +0000 3/17/02, Martin Baxter wrote: >The system is 7.6.1 and usually uses 5-6 megs of ram out of a total of 40 >megs (36physical and 4 virtual). >The system consumes about 24 megs in the process of loading revolution >completely. You could probably up this to 64MB without taking a performance hit from Revolution, and that would likely be enough memory to keep it happy even with the docs open. The documentation stacks are large, and Revolution was originally designed to work on systems with robust virtual memory. Which, I am sad to say as a long-time Mac user, does not include System 7.6.1. Or 8, or 9. Before any Mac users grow too concerned, many applications built with Revolution will require far less memory than the development environment itself. regards, Geoff From iansummerfield at btconnect.com Sun Mar 17 18:26:01 2002 From: iansummerfield at btconnect.com (Ian Summerfield) Date: Sun Mar 17 18:26:01 2002 Subject: UDP Broadcast (was Re: Program Linking) In-Reply-To: <88E12830-36CD-11D6-891E-0050E4C0B205@swcp.com> Message-ID: On 13/3/02 9:59 pm, "Dar Scott" scribed: > I use "accept datagram socket". There might be a better way. I > described how I do this in recent mail to improve-revolution with > the subject ""accept datagram" on W2K is not that on OS X". > > Essentially, I open with "accept" specifying the message for > handling datagrams. Those messages are sent with the sender's IP > address and with the datagram content. NB: Close the socket with > the port only; if you look at openSocket, you will see the socket > listed in that form. > > The problem (or feature) with OS X is that an additional message is > sent upon "accept" and only one valid datagram can be received. > The "datagram" for the extra message empty, so if you make sure no > valid datagram is empty, you can ignore it based on that for both > platforms. If you need to receive more than one datagram, you have > some work to do. Otherwise just close it at the end of the second > message handling. You can reopen it to receive more. I didn't know any of what you said. I'm working on OS X, and this evening just finished a little project to monitor an APC UPS. I used "accept datagram" but then found the "have some work to do" bit you refer to was only a case of calling "read from socket nnnn with message xxxxxx" at the end of my message handler. It works fine. Is this the proper approach? on mouseup accept datagram connections on port 3052 with message "gotGram" end mouseup on gotGram fromwho,what if what is not empty then -- do whatever I want with the data end if read from socket 3052 with message "gotGram" end gotGram From sarahr at genesearch.com.au Sun Mar 17 18:30:01 2002 From: sarahr at genesearch.com.au (Sarah Reichelt) Date: Sun Mar 17 18:30:01 2002 Subject: set style of graphic "test" to line -- doesn't work?... In-Reply-To: Message-ID: I ran into this problem too, the solution is to put "line" in quotes. Then it will work fine. Cheers, Sarah > create graphic "test" > set the style of graphic "test" to line > > The error I get is: > > Script compile error: > Error description: Expression: missing factor From shaosean at unitz.ca Sun Mar 17 19:28:01 2002 From: shaosean at unitz.ca (Shao Sean) Date: Sun Mar 17 19:28:01 2002 Subject: sneak-peek: calendar object References: <009801c1ccc6$a86b4dc0$88b15bd1@lanfear> Message-ID: <000f01c1ce13$39a798f0$88b15bd1@lanfear> > As for additional features, I suggest the ability to designate > whether Sunday or Monday is the first day of the week. So far as I good idea.. i just went with the "standard" of using sunday as the beginning of the week, but i'll make a note to make the beginning day of week an option (that way you can set it to thursday if you want) From dsc at swcp.com Sun Mar 17 19:43:01 2002 From: dsc at swcp.com (Dar Scott) Date: Sun Mar 17 19:43:01 2002 Subject: UDP Broadcast (was Re: Program Linking) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <6C374F64-3A08-11D6-846C-0050E4C0B205@swcp.com> On Sunday, March 17, 2002, at 04:23 PM, Ian Summerfield wrote: > I didn't know any of what you said. I'm working on OS X, and this > evening > just finished a little project to monitor an APC UPS. I used "accept > datagram" but then found the "have some work to do" bit you refer > to was > only a case of calling "read from socket nnnn with message xxxxxx" > at the > end of my message handler. It works fine. Is this the proper > approach? I don't know if it is proper. I didn't even think of the idea. I didn't even know the "read from socket" callbackMessage had a second parameter until I saw it in the dictionary for Revolution 1.1.1 RC1. > on mouseup > accept datagram connections on port 3052 with message "gotGram" > end mouseup > > on gotGram fromwho,what > if what is not empty then > -- do whatever I want with the data > end if > read from socket 3052 with message "gotGram" > end gotGram This has a problem on my system (OS X with R 1.1.1 RC1). You might have it in yours. Try it with a beep or counter at the end of your "gotGram" handler. I get a call back with an empty datagram not only the first time but also repeatedly about 100 times a second. Then I get socket timeout callbacks, even when I'm receiving datagrams. What I had in mind for "have some work to do" was closing and and accepting again after each valid datagram. Dar Scott Dar Scott Consulting Albuquerque From shaosean at unitz.ca Sun Mar 17 19:52:00 2002 From: shaosean at unitz.ca (Shao Sean) Date: Sun Mar 17 19:52:00 2002 Subject: sneak-peek: calendar object References: <009801c1ccc6$a86b4dc0$88b15bd1@lanfear> Message-ID: <001901c1ce16$9c763740$88b15bd1@lanfear> > Just out of curiosity, are you using system calls or decyphering > known dates converted using the long system date function? originally i had a few functions and handlers that figured out all my months/years based off of today's date (kinda right really).. the only problem with it was everything had to start at sunday, english only, and lots more room for errors.. the good thing about doing it this way was the fact that there was beginning and/or end for my getting dates (could go all the way back to january 1AD if i wanted) i ended up taking a look through the transcript dictionary, and for some reason took a look at the "convert" function (remember seeing it in an earlier thread).. now my code uses the "convert" function and "the seconds" to get all the date/month/year information.. this way works a lot better because i can handle non-english date information as well as displaying the information in the language setting that is set in the user's computer (dutch is cool).. the only down fall i've seen to this is the date information has a starting date of something back in 1970 (someone correct me if i'm work.. i usually do my reading and coding at 2 in the morning after getting off of work).. here's what i use to do my date information: (put it in a button and give it a try) on mouseUp local vDateItems # this will convert the seconds into the dateItems for today # look up "convert" to see what dateItems are.. it's handy # dateItems are in the format of YYYY,MM,DD,HH,MM,SS,DayOfWeek # where, HH is 24hour and DayOfWeek is an number (1=sunday, 7=saturday) convert the seconds to dateItems put it into vDateItems # vDateItems now contains 2002,3,17,19,38,24,1 # so now we have today, let's move back a national holiday for my country # canada day is july 1st so let's go see what day of the week that falls on put 7 into item 2 of vDateItems -- july put 1 into item 3 of vDateItems -- first # i like to wipe out the time information, but it's not really that important # uncomment the following lines if you want it wiped out -- put 0 into item 4 of vDateItems -- wipe out hours -- put 0 into item 5 of vDateItems -- wipe out minutes -- put 0 into item 6 of vDateItems -- wipe out seconds # so now vDateItems contains 2002,7,1,0,0,0,1 # the day of the week containedin vDateItems may or may not be correct # but that's okay, because it'll get corrected in the next two lines convert vDateItems from dateItems to seconds -- convert back to seconds # the above conversion automatically does the conversion and places # it back in the vDateItems variable convert vDateItems from seconds to dateItems -- convert back to dateItems # now vDateItems contains the date information for july 1st, 2002 # vDates now contains 2002,7,1,0,0,0,2 # so canada day this year falls on a monday put vDateItems end mouseUp > I already have a handler that can decypher the short date format from > the long system date. Now I realize I can capture day and month > names using the same technique. the techniques i switched to to get the dayOfWeek and month names (in the current system language) is as follows: "weekdayNames" (look it up) example: put the abbr system weekdayNames in vWeekdayNames returns a linefeed delimited list containing the names of the weekdays (sunday, monday, etc) in the language setting used by the system "monthNames" example: put the system monthNames in vMonthNames returns a linefeed delimited list containing the names of the months in the language setting used by the system hope that helps someone out with something.. From shaosean at unitz.ca Sun Mar 17 20:04:01 2002 From: shaosean at unitz.ca (Shao Sean) Date: Sun Mar 17 20:04:01 2002 Subject: Minimizing a stack References: Message-ID: <002b01c1ce18$47274f20$88b15bd1@lanfear> i'll answer your questions in reverse so it makes more sense ;-) > ...how do I detect when a stack is minimized? Is a message sent to the > stack? (I know that 'resizestack' isn't issued in these circumstances.) when a stack has been told to minimize the "iconifyStack" message is sent, when a stack is restored the "uniconifyStack" message is sent > palette to hang around when the window it controls isn't visible. So... [this is lifted from the "revMenubar" stack script, but modified to meet your question] on iconifyStack # this will minimize the stack set the iconic of stack "mainDocumentStack" to TRUE # this will hide your palette set the visible of stack "palette" to FALSE end iconifyStack when the user restores the stack on unIconifyStack # this will restore your stack set the iconic of stack "mainDocumentStack to FALSE # this will show the palette set the visible of stack "palette" to TRUE end unIconifyStack hope that helps From matt.denton at limelight.com.au Sun Mar 17 20:38:00 2002 From: matt.denton at limelight.com.au (Matt Denton) Date: Sun Mar 17 20:38:00 2002 Subject: Card Properties and editing groups In-Reply-To: <200203171710.MAA15072@www.runrev.com> Message-ID: <87F23F89-3A10-11D6-8262-0003930B4708@limelight.com.au> Hello all, I have discovered some strange behavior when editing a group. It seems that any reference to custom properties stored in the card are ignored when editing a group. Try this (first create some custom properties cMyObjects on a card): on mouseUp put the abbrev id of this cd into lThisCdID put the cMyObjects of lThisCdID wait 60 start editing group "Some Group" put the cMyObjects of lThisCdID stop editing end mouseUp ...seems that Rev doesn't know about the card props once editing the group. I guess it has something to do with groups exhibiting some 'background card' behavior from HC days. However I don't understand why I doesn't find the card properties when I have pass it the abbrev ID... surely this is an absolute ref to the object? Any ideas? M@ Matt Denton From rcozens at pon.net Sun Mar 17 20:46:01 2002 From: rcozens at pon.net (Rob Cozens) Date: Sun Mar 17 20:46:01 2002 Subject: Date Formatting Without System Calls In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: >this function doesn't return the correct month on my french system > >I've replaced the second line with : > >put "1999,"&monthNumber&",1,0,0,0,0" into testDate > >So, it gives the correct monthName Salut Yves! Thanks for correcting my error. There may also be a possibility the month name could have a comma appended to it in some setups...I'll check that before I publish the final version. -- Rob Cozens CCW, Serendipity Software Company http://www.oenolog.com/who.htm "And I, which was two fooles, do so grow three; Who are a little wise, the best fooles bee." from "The Triple Foole" by John Donne (1572-1631) From rcozens at pon.net Sun Mar 17 20:46:08 2002 From: rcozens at pon.net (Rob Cozens) Date: Sun Mar 17 20:46:08 2002 Subject: sneak-peek: calendar object In-Reply-To: <000f01c1ce13$39a798f0$88b15bd1@lanfear> References: <009801c1ccc6$a86b4dc0$88b15bd1@lanfear> <000f01c1ce13$39a798f0$88b15bd1@lanfear> Message-ID: >good idea.. i just went with the "standard" of using sunday as the beginning >of the week, but i'll make a note to make the beginning day of week an >option (that way you can set it to thursday if you want) The calendars I receive each year from my good friends in Sweden place Monday first. I don't know what other countries have this convention. -- Rob Cozens CCW, Serendipity Software Company http://www.oenolog.com/who.htm "And I, which was two fooles, do so grow three; Who are a little wise, the best fooles bee." from "The Triple Foole" by John Donne (1572-1631) From rcozens at pon.net Sun Mar 17 20:55:01 2002 From: rcozens at pon.net (Rob Cozens) Date: Sun Mar 17 20:55:01 2002 Subject: sneak-peek: calendar object In-Reply-To: <001901c1ce16$9c763740$88b15bd1@lanfear> References: <009801c1ccc6$a86b4dc0$88b15bd1@lanfear> <001901c1ce16$9c763740$88b15bd1@lanfear> Message-ID: >the techniques i switched to to get the dayOfWeek and month names (in the >current system language) is as follows: > >"weekdayNames" (look it up) >example: put the abbr system weekdayNames in vWeekdayNames >returns a linefeed delimited list containing the names of the weekdays >(sunday, monday, etc) in the language setting used by the system > >"monthNames" >example: put the system monthNames in vMonthNames >returns a linefeed delimited list containing the names of the months in the >language setting used by the system I will look them up: in general, if there's a built-in way to do something I'll give up my home-grown approach. -- Rob Cozens CCW, Serendipity Software Company http://www.oenolog.com/who.htm "And I, which was two fooles, do so grow three; Who are a little wise, the best fooles bee." from "The Triple Foole" by John Donne (1572-1631) From rcozens at pon.net Sun Mar 17 20:56:02 2002 From: rcozens at pon.net (Rob Cozens) Date: Sun Mar 17 20:56:02 2002 Subject: sneak-peek: calendar object In-Reply-To: <001901c1ce16$9c763740$88b15bd1@lanfear> References: <009801c1ccc6$a86b4dc0$88b15bd1@lanfear> <001901c1ce16$9c763740$88b15bd1@lanfear> Message-ID: >here's what i use to do my date information: I was about to ask how you determined the system date format...then I realized one doesn't need to know that to create a calendar. :{`) -- Rob Cozens CCW, Serendipity Software Company http://www.oenolog.com/who.htm "And I, which was two fooles, do so grow three; Who are a little wise, the best fooles bee." from "The Triple Foole" by John Donne (1572-1631) From shaosean at unitz.ca Sun Mar 17 21:13:01 2002 From: shaosean at unitz.ca (Shao Sean) Date: Sun Mar 17 21:13:01 2002 Subject: sneak-peek: calendar object References: <009801c1ccc6$a86b4dc0$88b15bd1@lanfear> <001901c1ce16$9c763740$88b15bd1@lanfear> Message-ID: <009601c1ce21$f90a9ef0$88b15bd1@lanfear> > I will look them up: in general, if there's a built-in way to do > something I'll give up my home-grown approach. i was really happy to find the built-in methods, as i was getting a headache wondering how to handle foreign date information.. > I was about to ask how you determined the system date format...then I > realized one doesn't need to know that to create a calendar. :{`) that took some getting used to.. the actual format of the date is irrelevant (it wasn't when i originally wrote my initial functions as i was basing it all off of what was returned from the abbr date) using the built-in methods, i managed to create more functions/handlers to do some extra features yet still lower my overall line count of code =) good luck with your date code, feel free to write off-list if you have any questions or just feel like sharing something that you think might be useful.. (someone shared a calender project they worked on, and the way they setup their calendar dates clued me into a very neat way of doing it, so i'm going to incorporate it into my calendar).. i'm hoping to have a release this monday or tuesday, hopefully with all the features available From jeanne at runrev.com Sun Mar 17 22:30:01 2002 From: jeanne at runrev.com (Jeanne A. E. DeVoto) Date: Sun Mar 17 22:30:01 2002 Subject: Minimizing a stack In-Reply-To: Message-ID: At 2:00 PM -0800 3/17/2002, Derek Huby wrote: >...how do I detect when a stack is minimized? Is a message sent to the >stack? (I know that 'resizestack' isn't issued in these circumstances.) Check out the iconifyStack message. -- Jeanne A. E. DeVoto ~ jeanne at runrev.com http://www.runrev.com/ Runtime Revolution Limited - Power to the Developer! From jeanne at runrev.com Sun Mar 17 22:30:19 2002 From: jeanne at runrev.com (Jeanne A. E. DeVoto) Date: Sun Mar 17 22:30:19 2002 Subject: Editing buttons (fields, ... ) in browse mode In-Reply-To: Message-ID: At 10:12 AM -0800 3/17/2002, Victor Eijkhout wrote: >At 12:09 -0500 17/3/2002, use-revolution-request at lists.runrev.com wrote: >>Try control clic on the object, a pop up menu gives you access to the >>properties? > >Not Mac OSX, 1.1.1b1, objects with mouseup handle. Those simply >activate the mouseup handler. Try command-shift-control-click (on Macs), or control-shift-rightclick (on Windows/Unix). This brings up the same menu regardless of what tool you're using. -- Jeanne A. E. DeVoto ~ jeanne at runrev.com http://www.runrev.com/ Runtime Revolution Limited - Power to the Developer! From pixelbird at interisland.net Sun Mar 17 22:32:00 2002 From: pixelbird at interisland.net (Ken Norris (dialup)) Date: Sun Mar 17 22:32:00 2002 Subject: system bloat problem with rev on 68K mac In-Reply-To: Message-ID: on 3/17/02 2:22 PM, Geoff Canyon at gcanyon at inspiredlogic.com wrote: > You could probably up this to 64MB without taking a performance hit from > Revolution, and that would likely be enough memory to keep it happy even with > the docs open. ---------- Hi Geoff, I tried running Rev with my 48mb PB, plus with 64 mb Virtual Memory. I was comparing a couple of scripts in two separate stacks, so I had at least two Property windows open as well. When I opened the Dictionary and tried to find something, it locked up. Changing the VM to 128 mb fixed it. But, again, it's too slow for a development environment. I've more or less given up until I get a newer, gutsier machine (I'm workin' on it). I have to support these projects out of my own pocket at the moment, and there are numerous other considerations as well. Once again, to the other 'newbies' or prospective users: Running stacks doesn't _usually_ require nearly as much memory as the development environment. Actually, there's a question I haven't seen: How many total stacks are there in Rev? Best regards, Ken N. From pixelbird at interisland.net Sun Mar 17 22:40:01 2002 From: pixelbird at interisland.net (Ken Norris (dialup)) Date: Sun Mar 17 22:40:01 2002 Subject: set style of graphic "test" to line -- doesn't work?... In-Reply-To: Message-ID: on 3/17/02 3:28 PM, Sarah Reichelt at sarahr at genesearch.com.au wrote: > I ran into this problem too, the solution is to put "line" in quotes. > Then it will work fine. ---------- Good call. This is 'normal' safe scripting procedure in all cases like this, is it not? Ken N. From gcanyon at inspiredlogic.com Mon Mar 18 01:02:01 2002 From: gcanyon at inspiredlogic.com (Geoff Canyon) Date: Mon Mar 18 01:02:01 2002 Subject: system bloat problem with rev on 68K mac In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: At 7:33 PM -0800 3/17/02, Ken Norris (dialup) wrote: >Actually, there's a question I haven't seen: How many total stacks are there >in Rev? A lot. On the View menu, select Revolution UI Stacks in Lists to see them all. gc From dsc at swcp.com Mon Mar 18 02:15:01 2002 From: dsc at swcp.com (Dar Scott) Date: Mon Mar 18 02:15:01 2002 Subject: UDP Broadcast (was Re: Program Linking) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <41FD428C-3A3F-11D6-846C-0050E4C0B205@swcp.com> On Sunday, March 17, 2002, at 04:23 PM, Ian Summerfield wrote: > Is this the proper approach? > > on mouseup > accept datagram connections on port 3052 with message "gotGram" > end mouseup > > on gotGram fromwho,what > if what is not empty then > -- do whatever I want with the data > end if > read from socket 3052 with message "gotGram" > end gotGram I've been thinking about this notion of "proper." Remember, I think that I think OS X has a bug and any workaround is "proper." I think something like this would work on Windows 2000 and probably on Mac OS 9.2: on mouseup accept datagram connections on port 3052 with message "gotGram" end mouseup on gotGram fromwhom,what -- do whatever I want with the data end gotGram That may be the intended scheme for receiving datagrams. If so, anything we do on OS X should keep that in mind and may have to continue to work should a future version go to the same behavior as on other platforms. Workarounds thus deviate from the "proper" way in a sense. However, some might think that "accept datagram socket" should work more like "accept socket" (TCP) with new sockets created and then used for reads and writes. Perhaps they think this is the "proper" way. (Your method, Ian, looks like a cross between this and the one above. Since it worked as well as it did, this may be part of the designer's thinking.) I think a reasonable programming alternative--should Rev be expanded to do this--would be to "open datagram" with the local port specified in addition to the remote port and to read and write on that socket. One might argue that this is the "proper" way. I feel confident that the Runtime Revolution people will fix things and any evolution will be toward something clean, simple, powerful, uniform, complete and rich. It may not be what I or any of us would think up or what we are used to from other environments, but it would be "proper." Dar Scott From dsc at swcp.com Mon Mar 18 02:52:01 2002 From: dsc at swcp.com (Dar Scott) Date: Mon Mar 18 02:52:01 2002 Subject: copy or move card? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <6080088F-3A44-11D6-846C-0050E4C0B205@swcp.com> On Tuesday, March 12, 2002, at 07:27 PM, Jeanne A. E. DeVoto wrote: > To select a card, double-click it with the Pointer tool. The > selected card > can now be copied and pasted. ... > After copying, go to the destination you want to place the card > in, then > either choose "Paste Objects" from the Edit menu or use the paste > command. > The card is pasted into the current stack, after the card you were on. Thanks! On OS X (Revolution 1.1.1 RC1) the style and text size of my labels did not copy over. Is this normal? Dar Scott From shaosean at unitz.ca Mon Mar 18 05:12:01 2002 From: shaosean at unitz.ca (Shao Sean) Date: Mon Mar 18 05:12:01 2002 Subject: [Q] send in time and response times from apps Message-ID: <006101c1ce64$c5178930$88b15bd1@lanfear> does the performance of an application suffer if you use a low time interval for the "send" command? examples: send "cowSpeak" to me in 60 seconds send "cowSpeak" to me in 1 seconds obviously the updating is more fluid with the 1 seconds interval, but is it harmful to the overall response of the application? From jeanne at runrev.com Mon Mar 18 05:23:01 2002 From: jeanne at runrev.com (Jeanne A. E. DeVoto) Date: Mon Mar 18 05:23:01 2002 Subject: copy or move card? In-Reply-To: <6080088F-3A44-11D6-846C-0050E4C0B205@swcp.com> References: Message-ID: At 11:47 PM -0800 3/17/2002, Dar Scott wrote: >> After copying, go to the destination you want to place the card >> in, then >> either choose "Paste Objects" from the Edit menu or use the paste >> command. >> The card is pasted into the current stack, after the card you were on. > >Thanks! > >On OS X (Revolution 1.1.1 RC1) the style and text size of my labels >did not copy over. Is this normal? It depends on where the text size and style are set. These attributes inherit through the same chain as messages are (usually) sent, so if you have set a size and style in the stack, and then copy a card to another stack, the objects on the card will now show the size and style that's set for the new stack. On the other hand, if you copied the card into the same stack, or into a stack with the same settings, or if the size and style were set directly for the controls instead of inherited from the stack, then no, that wouldn't be normal. -- Jeanne A. E. DeVoto ~ jeanne at runrev.com http://www.runrev.com/ Runtime Revolution Limited - Power to the Developer! From martin at atwork.bdx.co.uk Mon Mar 18 08:14:01 2002 From: martin at atwork.bdx.co.uk (Martin Baxter) Date: Mon Mar 18 08:14:01 2002 Subject: system bloat problem with rev on 68K mac Message-ID: >Ken Norris wrote: >How did you get 40 mb out of a Quadra 630? Mine maxes out at 32 mb. The Quadra 630 has 1 72pin simm slot which can take a single 32 mb simm. Additionally 4 megs of ram is soldered to the motherboard, making a possible 36megs of physical ram. The extra 4 megs in my case is virtual memory. >on 3/17/02 8:09 AM, Martin Baxter at martin at atwork.bdx.co.uk wrote: > >> I have an old quadra 630 at home and I thought it would be useful to have >> revolution installed on it mainly so I could swot-up on the transcript >> dictionary when I'm at home and thinking about possible ideas. >---------- >So do I. We should collaborate because it's my intention to do the exact >same thing onthe exact same machine (Quadra 630). Yes I remember the earlier thread about it. It would be so much better for people like us if the documentation could stand separately from the development environment, which I don't really intend to use on the quadra, it's a dear old thing but not really up to it after all. [aside: - Actually I would prefer the documentation to be - at least optionally - separate in any case, I find that having it internal to the application is just extra clutter in a crowded development environment. RealBasic documentation is in pdf, and although there are pros and cons to everything, I prefer that myself, I just think it's more practical.] >I use Rev on a PB 1400c, 48 mb, 1.2 g drive. The only way I can use Rev at >all on it is to allocate 128 mb to Virtual RAM. After a lot of frustrating >experimentation, that's what I had to do to prevent 'soft' crashes. Anything >less and sooner or later the system would hang indefinitely, requiring a >forced restart. Of course, that means it's pretty slow, That's very interesting. Have you looked at the "About this computer" dialog in the Finder to see what's happening? This sounds like exactly what's happening here, but since you have more VM allocated, it just takes longer for the system to fill it all up and choke. Normally the memory used by the system fluctuates, which is why you have to leave it some free ram to work in. In "About this computer" you can normally watch it's memory usage going up and down as you do things. When you are running revolution however, you can only watch the system's memory usage going up, and up, and up, and up until it has used up all the available space. meanwhile, revolution's application memory can be almost empty or unused. Interested parties might want to see where I have posted screenshots of the "About this computer" dialog before launching revolution on the quadra and after it has choked because the system ran out of ram. martin m a r t i n martin baxter Cambridge UK From martin at atwork.bdx.co.uk Mon Mar 18 08:14:55 2002 From: martin at atwork.bdx.co.uk (Martin Baxter) Date: Mon Mar 18 08:14:55 2002 Subject: system bloat problem with rev on 68K mac Message-ID: >Geoff Canyon wrote: >At 4:09 PM +0000 3/17/02, Martin Baxter wrote: >>The system is 7.6.1 and usually uses 5-6 megs of ram out of a total of 40 >>megs (36physical and 4 virtual). >>The system consumes about 24 megs in the process of loading revolution >>completely. > >You could probably up this to 64MB without taking a performance hit from >Revolution, and that would likely be enough memory to keep it happy even >with the docs open. > Ah, well I haven't got as far as trying to open the docementation yet. But that would presumably load into revolution's application memory and that isn't where I'm having trouble, that isn't even a quarter full. The problem is that the system gets bigger and bigger, and never lets go of any memory it's using. As I already mentioned in a separate post on this subject, you can see memory allocation screenshots which show the situation more clearly than I can describe it at: >The documentation stacks are large, and Revolution was originally designed >to work on systems with robust virtual memory. Which, I am sad to say as a >long-time Mac user, does not include System 7.6.1. Or 8, or 9. > I tried running it with VM off and the behaviour is the same martin m a r t i n martin baxter Cambridge UK From mark at bcesouth.com Mon Mar 18 09:37:01 2002 From: mark at bcesouth.com (BCE) Date: Mon Mar 18 09:37:01 2002 Subject: employee db tutorial Message-ID: <004801c1ce8a$14597420$d86600d8@s1> Just tried the beta 2 on Mac OS 9 and the pic feature doesn't work quite right in the employee database tutorial --- nothing is visible when you add a pic to the file. (I am doing this within the Revolution environment.) (It looks much better than the regular 1.1 version, which had the pic box on top of the text fields.) This tutorial has worked fine for me on Windows 98 on all versions up to now. Eagerly awaiting the beta 2 for windows! Mark From JohnRule at aol.com Mon Mar 18 10:29:01 2002 From: JohnRule at aol.com (JohnRule at aol.com) Date: Mon Mar 18 10:29:01 2002 Subject: Control click = right mouse click on Mac? Message-ID: <28.23b0a234.29c7611f@aol.com> I just realized that my application that uses the right mouse click for Windows needs to be 'tweaked' for the Mac. When I use the control-click command on my Mac, it is automatically triggering a popup that was only intended for my Windows version... on mouseDown theClick if theClick = 3 then popup my pop_Up else do nothing end if end mouseDown Unfortunately, I was using the control-click for something else. Is there a work around? I guess I could check the platform...or just delete that line for my Mac 'version' of the application, but I will take any other suggestions for keeping my code universal! The new Mac version of Revolution is much improved ! ;-) Bugs? (on both Mac & Windows) It does seem that Geometry Manager has it's 'horizontal' and 'vertical' orientation backwards (maybe it's just me). See if the up/down left/right constraining 'tip' is correct... Locking an object (specifically a scrollbar) to the right of my card threw everything out of place. So far out of place that all objects were off the card (as if they exploded!). I am using the 'resizer' object from the library for my window (decorations are off). The text margins for Mac are consistently 'off' from Windows by at least 3. I always have to tweak the text (can you tell I am creating on a PC, and then migrating to my Mac?)...can this be a default setting? Hilighting is different on the Mac. If I have a field that has a black background with light blue text (for example), and the hilighting is set to the same color as the text (on Windows) the text changes to black...so you can see the text. On my Mac, the text stays the same color (making it disappear). I like the way this works on my PC, can I do this on the Mac? Selecting an object still takes several clicks when you have the properties palette open. I would prefer not to have the text selected by default when the properties palette is 'activated'. If I have a socket open, and I go into the editing mode (usually a script) for any length of time, I loose the capability to receive data (sending still works though). There is still an enormous amount of contention when sending (quickly) to a socket from a mouseDown handler on the Mac. I am not using a 'handshaking' method (just kind of 'screaming' at the port) but this works perfectly on my PC (even my Win '95 PC). If you move the mouse around while it is down (while the repeat loop is running - on the Mac) the contention goes away (i.e the sending happens normally). Thanks, JR -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From JohnRule at aol.com Mon Mar 18 11:46:01 2002 From: JohnRule at aol.com (JohnRule at aol.com) Date: Mon Mar 18 11:46:01 2002 Subject: Socket stuff Message-ID: <119.e538d8a.29c77354@aol.com> When I connect to another Revolution application running on my other PC (using open socket between two computers), it will not work with a 'maintained' connection (i.e. just open a socket, and start sending/receiving on that socket). I have to open 'with message', close, and then wait for the other computer to tell me to send (with my message funtion). This is the only way I can get this to work...is there something special I need to do for a 'maintained' connection? I do not have this problem with other 'maintained' TCP socket connections for other net devices...only between computers. Is my concept wrong? JR From troy at rpsystems.net Mon Mar 18 12:19:00 2002 From: troy at rpsystems.net (Troy Rollins) Date: Mon Mar 18 12:19:00 2002 Subject: Socket stuff In-Reply-To: <119.e538d8a.29c77354@aol.com> Message-ID: On Monday, March 18, 2002, at 11:44 AM, JohnRule at aol.com wrote: > When I connect to another Revolution application running on my other PC > (using open socket between two computers), it will not work with a > 'maintained' connection (i.e. just open a socket, and start > sending/receiving > on that socket). I have to open 'with message', close, and then wait > for the > other computer to tell me to send (with my message funtion). This is > the only > way I can get this to work...is there something special I need to do > for a > 'maintained' connection? I do not have this problem with other > 'maintained' > TCP socket connections for other net devices...only between computers. > > Is my concept wrong? I haven't tried to do this in Revolution. Like you, I am using these functions to talk to non-computer devices, so I'm really not sure what to expect from Revolution in those cases. It would be interesting to know however... -- Troy RPSystems www.rpsystems.net From rcozens at pon.net Mon Mar 18 12:29:01 2002 From: rcozens at pon.net (Rob Cozens) Date: Mon Mar 18 12:29:01 2002 Subject: [Q] send in time and response times from apps In-Reply-To: <006101c1ce64$c5178930$88b15bd1@lanfear> References: <006101c1ce64$c5178930$88b15bd1@lanfear> Message-ID: >does the performance of an application suffer if you use a low time interval >for the "send" command? > >examples: >send "cowSpeak" to me in 60 seconds >send "cowSpeak" to me in 1 seconds > >obviously the updating is more fluid with the 1 seconds interval, but is it >harmful to the overall response of the application? IMFO, it really depends on what else is going on with your application. As I noted in "Re: Time Field (Please Help)", either example has the potential to start a continuous stream of send commands that will persist until the runtime engine quits. If your application is "compute bound", ie: it's doing lots of number crunching and/or image manipulation, or it's pushing large amounts of data, then such loops may slow processing. OTOH, if your application is basically presenting a single screen of data to the user and waiting for him/her to type something or click on something; either send command should have no practical effect. However, I would still script a mechanism to assure the loop stops when the user leaves the card. BTW, in my experience, I would not consider 1 sec a "low" time interval in an environment where a CPU is dealing in milliseconds. One tick would be a low time interval, and would probably put the app into suspended animation. And while we're on the subject, am I correct that any "send ... in" event cannot guarantee precise timing? My presumption is that no message can be sent while a handler (or some code segment?) is running. Does a CPU intensive handler effectively block the sending of queued events until it completes? -- Rob Cozens CCW, Serendipity Software Company http://www.oenolog.com/who.htm "And I, which was two fooles, do so grow three; Who are a little wise, the best fooles bee." from "The Triple Foole" by John Donne (1572-1631) From dsc at swcp.com Mon Mar 18 13:15:01 2002 From: dsc at swcp.com (Dar Scott) Date: Mon Mar 18 13:15:01 2002 Subject: Socket stuff In-Reply-To: <119.e538d8a.29c77354@aol.com> Message-ID: <8008021A-3A9B-11D6-AFC0-0050E4C0B205@swcp.com> On Monday, March 18, 2002, at 09:44 AM, JohnRule at aol.com wrote: > I do not have this problem with other 'maintained' > TCP socket connections for other net devices...only between computers. > > Is my concept wrong? I'm going to take a stab in the dark concerning what may be wrong. Here are some comments regarding TCP. The two ends of a TCP connection are not the same. One end initiates the connection. In the socket model, this difference is emphasized more. The end that initiates the connection is often called the client. The other is the server. The TCP server "listens" for connections on a port and, when a request comes in, it may "accept" it and create a new socket to go with the connection. It may have more than one connection and thus more than one socket on that port. The remote address and port makes them unique. When you connect to "other net devices", you are probably connecting as a client. You would be using the Revolution command "open socket". You can connect to another Revolution application the same way. However, the other end must be a server. You open that with accept. The accept spawns an opening of a new socket whenever a request comes in. There is no attempt to open one for communication until then. Since you have no socket handle until the connection comes in, you cannot write until a connection is made. And it would make no sense to do so. Writing the server end takes a little bit of more work than writing the client end, especially if you want to handle more than one client. A simple trick of using two connections can be used to make the link between two applications symetrical. An alternate TCP/IP protocol is the UDP protocol. This allows you to send entire messages (not just bytes in a stream) to some port on some computer. Your application may organize this as if it was a connection. So, in principle, there is no reason why both ends could not be opened with "open". Practice may vary. Caveat: I have been experimenting with UDP on Revolution, but yet have only read the documents on TCP on Revolution. I do have TCP experience in other environments. I hope this helps and that I haven't gone down some bunny trail that doesn't apply. Dar Scott From pixelbird at interisland.net Mon Mar 18 13:33:00 2002 From: pixelbird at interisland.net (Ken Norris (dialup)) Date: Mon Mar 18 13:33:00 2002 Subject: system bloat problem with rev on 68K mac In-Reply-To: Message-ID: on 3/18/02 5:10 AM, Martin Baxter at martin at atwork.bdx.co.uk wrote: > The Quadra 630 has 1 72pin simm slot which can take a single 32 mb simm. > Additionally 4 megs of ram is soldered to the motherboard, making a > possible 36megs of physical ram. The extra 4 megs in my case is virtual > memory. ---------- Right. But you said _40 megs_ in the previous post which is incorrect, not 36, which is correct if you include the motherboard memory. This is what I meant. 4 megs could make a big difference if you're maxed out. A person can hope, though. BTW, do you know if there's any way to replace the SIMM with a piggybacked board with more memory? So far, it looks like one must replace the motherboard to gain more memory capability. ---------- > It would be so much better for > people like us if the documentation could stand separately from the > development environment ---------- Go to the Rev website and DL Geoff Canyon's _revrtfer.rev_ stack. It has all the docs in 3 different text types. You can open it separately, without Rev's UI. I've requested Geoff to make it into a standalone, but it works fine with just the basic MC engine running. ---------- > I find that having it internal to the > application ---------- I know what you're saying, but, again, remember it's a stack. It's tied to Rev's UI (runtime), which sort of makes it internal, but the MC engine is what actually runs it, just like the rest of the UI. ---------- > is just extra clutter in a crowded development environment. ---------- I agree, but then you couldn't use it's features, like the hilited keywords, which automatically bring up other info elsewhere in the docs. I'm OK with 90% of that myself. I can develop my own search stuff pretty quickly. ---------- > >> I use Rev on a PB 1400c, 48 mb, 1.2 g drive. The only way I can use Rev at >> all on it is to allocate 128 mb to Virtual RAM. After a lot of frustrating >> experimentation, that's what I had to do to prevent 'soft' crashes. Anything >> less and sooner or later the system would hang indefinitely, requiring a >> forced restart. Of course, that means it's pretty slow, > > That's very interesting. Have you looked at the "About this computer" > dialog in the Finder to see what's happening? This sounds like exactly > what's happening here, but since you have more VM allocated, it just takes > longer for the system to fill it all up and choke. ---------- No. With 128 mb Virtual RAM it hasn't choked, it's just slow, i.e., it takes the drive much, much longer to open things than actual RAM. The computer will open what it can with the available Real RAM; when that fills up, it has to switch in the Virtual RAM (which uses the HD). Everything bogs down a lot (especially in my PB beacause the processer does extra stuff), depending on which part of the UI is loading, but, if you're patient, it _will_ eventually continue. ---------- > Normally the memory used by the system fluctuates, which is why you have to > leave it some free ram to work in. In "About this computer" you can > normally watch it's memory usage going up and down as you do things. > > When you are running revolution however, you can only watch the system's > memory usage going up, and up, and up, and up until it has used up all the > available space. meanwhile, revolution's application memory can be almost > empty or unused. ---------- I might be wrong, but I believe that's because Rev's entire UI is _stack-based_. The MC engine grabs _blocks_ of memory it needs to run the show according to the amount of memory the Rev UI needs. In other words, the engine by itself may not use much more memory, but accessing the Rev UI does. The stack list for Rev's UI is _huge_ and requires a lot of memory to operate it all. You'll use up 32 megs quickly, and the system will crash. ---------- > Interested parties might want to see > where I have posted > screenshots of the "About this computer" dialog before launching revolution > on the quadra and after it has choked because the system ran out of ram. ---------- That just proves my point. You cannot use the REV UI on a stock Quadra 630. If I use mine for Rev stuff, it'll be because I have hot-rodded the machine, or to just run the engine and Geoff's revrtfer.rev stack for reference only. Best regards, Ken N. From troy at rpsystems.net Mon Mar 18 13:54:01 2002 From: troy at rpsystems.net (Troy Rollins) Date: Mon Mar 18 13:54:01 2002 Subject: Socket stuff In-Reply-To: <8008021A-3A9B-11D6-AFC0-0050E4C0B205@swcp.com> Message-ID: <445809C7-3AA1-11D6-9BA9-000393853D6C@rpsystems.net> On Monday, March 18, 2002, at 01:10 PM, Dar Scott wrote: > I hope this helps and that I haven't gone down some bunny trail that > doesn't apply. I can't speak for John, but I appreciate your comments. Very useful info, and well written too! -- Troy RPSystems www.rpsystems.net From katir at hindu.org Mon Mar 18 14:41:01 2002 From: katir at hindu.org (Sivakatirswami) Date: Mon Mar 18 14:41:01 2002 Subject: Basic Browser/ HTML parser that displays images Message-ID: Has anyone created a simple HTML parser that uses the new image link to a single character and "simulates" a browser to the best of MC's ability? What I am looking for is to be able to GET a url from the web, a simple standard html pages with pictures and text.. parse for image references, assign those to the link property of a characters then display the page in a scrolling field in MC/REV. Or course the HTML "gamut" will be restricted to MC's range of tags and stuff outside that range, like tables, will all be imported un-rendered, hopefully just in a running line of images and text. i.e. I want to keep it simple and not try to shoot the moon with a script that tries to do too much...all that is needed: text... image.... text...image, images...text text... images... running down the field... if text can flow around the image great, if not also no problem. Of course if you have a more robust but bug free MC "browser" OK... The context is where we might have a station that has a web connection but where we want access, surfing etc. to be totally blocked and as such no browsers will be installed on the station at all...for kiosk and "kid proof/safe" situations ( I get requests for this facility regularly) And (maybe we want to start a new thread) is anyone working on applications for the "future of futures" i.e. serving MC/Rev stacks on Web TV? i.e. one day in the not too distant future a family will sit around their TV and they get sick of some of the raunchy programming they will just switch to a channel that opens an internet connection and downloads web pages... (the latter being the myopic vision) but if they could also download an MC/Rev base multi-media show and be able to click buttons and use menus from the screen.... Hinduism Today Sivakatirswami Editor's Assistant/Production Manager katir at hindu.org www.HinduismToday.com, www.HimalayanAcademy.com, www.Gurudeva.org, www.hindu.org Read The Master Course Lesson of the Day at http://www.gurudeva.org/lesson.shtml From katir at hindu.org Mon Mar 18 14:50:00 2002 From: katir at hindu.org (Sivakatirswami) Date: Mon Mar 18 14:50:00 2002 Subject: Basic Browser/ HTML parser that displays images Message-ID: Has anyone created a simple HTML parser that uses the new image link to a single character and "simulates" a browser to the best of MC's ability? What I am looking for is to be able to GET a url from the web, a simple standard html pages with pictures and text.. parse for image references, assign those to the link property of a characters then display the page in a scrolling field in MC/REV. Or course the HTML "gamut" will be restricted to MC's range of tags and stuff outside that range, like tables, will all be imported un-rendered, hopefully just in a running line of images and text. i.e. I want to keep it simple and not try to shoot the moon with a script that tries to do too much...all that is needed: text... image.... text...image, images...text text... images... running down the field... if text can flow around the image great, if not also no problem. Of course if you have a more robust but bug free MC "browser" OK... The context is where we might have a station that has a web connection but where we want access, surfing etc. to be totally blocked and as such no browsers will be installed on the station at all...for kiosk and "kid proof/safe" situations ( I get requests for this facility regularly) And (maybe we want to start a new thread) is anyone working on applications for the "future of futures" i.e. serving MC/Rev stacks on Web TV? i.e. one day in the not too distant future a family will sit around their TV and they get sick of some of the raunchy programming they will just switch to a channel that opens an internet connection and downloads web pages... (the latter being the myopic vision) but if they could also download an MC/Rev base multi-media show and be able to click buttons and use menus from the screen.... Hinduism Today Sivakatirswami Editor's Assistant/Production Manager katir at hindu.org www.HinduismToday.com, www.HimalayanAcademy.com, www.Gurudeva.org, www.hindu.org Read The Master Course Lesson of the Day at http://www.gurudeva.org/lesson.shtml _______________________________________________ metacard mailing list metacard at lists.runrev.com http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/metacard From giulio at cantoberon.it Mon Mar 18 15:35:01 2002 From: giulio at cantoberon.it (Giulio Mastrosanti) Date: Mon Mar 18 15:35:01 2002 Subject: Changing the list of values of an option menu at runtime Message-ID: I'm looking at the list of properties of a button that has 'option' as style, but i can't find the list of values it can have (the list i write on the property stack on the field "Create button menu with contents:") So i can't figure how can I read the values or change them on the fly, for example using values from a database table Any idea? Regards, Giulio From shaosean at unitz.ca Mon Mar 18 16:01:01 2002 From: shaosean at unitz.ca (Shao Sean) Date: Mon Mar 18 16:01:01 2002 Subject: Socket stuff References: <8008021A-3A9B-11D6-AFC0-0050E4C0B205@swcp.com> Message-ID: <002001c1cebf$64e1a770$88b15bd1@lanfear> for client/server apps, take a look at the really bare-bones, but ultra-cool chat server/client on the "user contribution" page.. the server helped me understand the "accept" version of the "open socket" much better From devin_asay at byu.edu Mon Mar 18 16:12:05 2002 From: devin_asay at byu.edu (Devin Asay) Date: Mon Mar 18 16:12:05 2002 Subject: The Incredible Shrinking Movie In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: This appears to be a bug in way player objects work. I'm using the latest test version (1.1.1b2). Recipe: 1. Create a QuickTime player object. 2. Bring up a QuickTime movie in the player. (I am using the "set the fileName..." method in a script, but the same thing happens if you browse to the movie.) 3. Open the properties palette for the player. 4. Select the last tab (Quicktime logo tab). 5. Check the width and height of the player object. 6. Disable one of the movie's tracks (eg., a sound or a text track, but disabling any track seems to show this effect). 7. Check the player's width again. It is two pixels narrower and three pixels shorter than it was before. 8. Enable the track again. The player will have shrunken again, by the same amounts, in height and width. 9. This shrinking will be repeated each time you enable or disable a track. Looks like a bug to me. Has anyone else seen this? Devin -- Devin Asay Humanities Research Center Brigham Young University From shaosean at unitz.ca Mon Mar 18 16:14:01 2002 From: shaosean at unitz.ca (Shao Sean) Date: Mon Mar 18 16:14:01 2002 Subject: [Q] send in time and response times from apps References: <006101c1ce64$c5178930$88b15bd1@lanfear> Message-ID: <004301c1cec1$3d9cc9e0$88b15bd1@lanfear> > IMFO, it really depends on what else is going on with your application. in the part i'm writing (the calendar object) not really a heck off a lot (on the intial openBackground there's a lot going on, but after that.. nada).. bascially my code works something like so: on openBackground -- script to build the calendar here calendar_checkForDateChange end openBackground on calendar_checkForDateChange local vDateItem, vTodayDate put 18 into vTodayDate -- this is created on the fly in the real script convert the seconds to dateItems put it into vDateItems if (item 3 of vDateItems <> vTodayDate) then -- the date in vDateItems is different from the stored date send "openBackground" to me else -- dates match send "calendar_checkForDateChange" to me in 60 seconds end if end calendar_checkForDateChange i guess a lot of it depends on how much is going on in whatever application the developer embeds the calendar into.. > script a mechanism to assure the loop stops when the user leaves the hehe.. good idea.. except the fact that the calendar object runs as a background object (only way i could it to do something "openBackground" there needs to be some kind of internal "open" handler for the objects..) > And while we're on the subject, am I correct that any "send ... in" > event cannot guarantee precise timing? when i did my testing with the 60sec interval, it was being fired every 61secs, but i'm not too worried about the extra second here or there as it's just to update the calendar when there's a date change From k_major at osnabrueck.netsurf.de Mon Mar 18 16:15:02 2002 From: k_major at osnabrueck.netsurf.de (Klaus Major) Date: Mon Mar 18 16:15:02 2002 Subject: Changing the list of values of an option menu at runtime In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Buona sera Giulio, > I'm looking at the list of properties of a button that has 'option' as > style, but i can't find the list of values it can have (the list i > write on > the property stack on the field "Create button menu with contents:") > > So i can't figure how can I read the values or change them on the fly, > for > example using values from a database table this is again too obvious ;-) get btn "name of your btn" so you have the content of your button in it.. put "questi" & CR & "cazzi" & CR "di" & CR "piggione" into btn "name of your btn" now you have a new (and obscene ;-) button content. > Any idea? > Regards, > > > Giulio Hope this helps. Ciao Klaus Major k_major at osnabrueck.netsurf.de From giulio at cantoberon.it Mon Mar 18 16:23:01 2002 From: giulio at cantoberon.it (Giulio Mastrosanti) Date: Mon Mar 18 16:23:01 2002 Subject: Changing the list of values of an option menu at runtime In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Hi Klaus, Thanks for your effort, And my compliments for your italian, The phrase "questi cazzi di" is perfect, but what does it mean "piggione" ???!!!??? Greetings from Rome, Giulio From k_major at osnabrueck.netsurf.de Mon Mar 18 16:36:01 2002 From: k_major at osnabrueck.netsurf.de (Klaus Major) Date: Mon Mar 18 16:36:01 2002 Subject: Changing the list of values of an option menu at runtime In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Buona sera Giulio, > Hi Klaus, > > Thanks for your effort, the buttons-content work now ? Fine. > And my compliments for your italian, Mille grazie... > > The phrase "questi cazzi di" is perfect, > but what does it mean "piggione" ???!!!??? Ooops, maybe i meant pidgioni. My italian is really bad in fact ;-) I mean pidgeons. > > Greetings from Rome, > > > Giulio Ciao Claudio Maggiore ;-) From dsc at swcp.com Mon Mar 18 17:31:01 2002 From: dsc at swcp.com (Dar Scott) Date: Mon Mar 18 17:31:01 2002 Subject: Socket stuff In-Reply-To: <002001c1cebf$64e1a770$88b15bd1@lanfear> Message-ID: <3C0DDEFA-3ABF-11D6-AFC0-0050E4C0B205@swcp.com> On Monday, March 18, 2002, at 01:56 PM, Shao Sean wrote: > for client/server apps, take a look at the really bare-bones, but > ultra-cool > chat server/client on the "user contribution" page.. the server > helped me > understand the "accept" version of the "open socket" much better This is a good clean example of a TCP server. The idea of keeping state for each connection in an array is a good one; in a more advanced application the array can be expanded to 2D. My thanks to Tuviah Snyder. I don't see that it handles socketError, but that is no big deal. Dar Scott From shaosean at unitz.ca Mon Mar 18 17:45:01 2002 From: shaosean at unitz.ca (Shao Sean) Date: Mon Mar 18 17:45:01 2002 Subject: Socket stuff References: <3C0DDEFA-3ABF-11D6-AFC0-0050E4C0B205@swcp.com> Message-ID: <007801c1cecd$f4e2db10$88b15bd1@lanfear> > I don't see that it handles socketError, but that is no big deal. in all honesty, i've ever had this handler fire when i've received an error.. does it actually work? From ambassador at FourthWorld.com Mon Mar 18 18:29:01 2002 From: ambassador at FourthWorld.com (Richard Gaskin) Date: Mon Mar 18 18:29:01 2002 Subject: Semi-OT: Cmd-key triggers for Answer Folder In-Reply-To: <200203182116.QAA17104@www.runrev.com> Message-ID: When using "answer folder", the Nav Services dialog lets you choose a folder, with the buttons "Cancel", "Open", and "Choose" available. Cancel is triggered by the Escape key. Open is triggered by Return, Enter, or Cmd-down arrow What about Choose? I've tried all manner of Cmd, Shift, and Opt options and I can't find the magic sequence. Given that the Choose button is ultimately the whole point of that Nav Servies dialog, it seems a strange ommission. What am I missing? -- Richard Gaskin Fourth World Media Corporation Custom Software and Web Development for All Major Platforms Developer of WebMerge 1.9: Publish any Database on Any Site ___________________________________________________________ Ambassador at FourthWorld.com http://www.FourthWorld.com Tel: 323-225-3717 AIM: FourthWorldInc From jeanne at runrev.com Tue Mar 19 01:43:01 2002 From: jeanne at runrev.com (Jeanne A. E. DeVoto) Date: Tue Mar 19 01:43:01 2002 Subject: Changing the list of values of an option menu at runtime In-Reply-To: Message-ID: At 12:32 PM -0800 3/18/2002, Giulio Mastrosanti wrote: >I'm looking at the list of properties of a button that has 'option' as >style, but i can't find the list of values it can have (the list i write on >the property stack on the field "Create button menu with contents:") As Klaus said you can simply use "put" to put your desired items into the buttons, but there's also a tip: if you hold the mouse over a control in the Properties palette, the Transcript property name pops up as a tool tip. (In this case, the text property of the button.) These two statements are equivalent: put myList into button "Option Menu" set the text of button "Option Menu" to myList -- Jeanne A. E. DeVoto ~ jeanne at runrev.com http://www.runrev.com/ Runtime Revolution Limited - Power to the Developer! From rolfk at vetvir.unizh.ch Tue Mar 19 07:07:01 2002 From: rolfk at vetvir.unizh.ch (Rolf Kocherhans) Date: Tue Mar 19 07:07:01 2002 Subject: Icons on Desktoop Message-ID: Is it true ? Can I really only add 16 color Icons on building time to a Windows Project ? If yes.... Is there a way to add more colors later, with an Icon editor ? Cheers Rolf From webmaster at studioalice.se Tue Mar 19 10:21:01 2002 From: webmaster at studioalice.se (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Magnus_von_Br=F6msen?=) Date: Tue Mar 19 10:21:01 2002 Subject: Turn off nav with arrow keys? Message-ID: <9529326C-3B4C-11D6-BB6B-003065CCBD1A@studioalice.se> Hi I want to turn of the possibilities to navigate from card-to-card with the arrow keys (in a stand-alone app). Is this the right way to go: on openCard set the navigationsArrow to false end openCard The app is made of 3 stack-files, so I put this script i each main-stack. Or...? Thanks. Magnus von Br?msen From webmaster at studioalice.se Tue Mar 19 10:22:00 2002 From: webmaster at studioalice.se (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Magnus_von_Br=F6msen?=) Date: Tue Mar 19 10:22:00 2002 Subject: Revolution 1.1.1B2/RC1 for Mac In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Thanks Kevin & Co. /magnus On fredag, mars 15, 2002, at 08:25 , Kevin Miller wrote: > Hi Everyone, > > Beta 2 (effectively release candidate 1) of 1.1.1 is now available for > the > Mac OS X from: > > http://www.runrev.com/revolution/engines11/beta111/revolutionosx.sit > > Or Mac OS: > > http://www.runrev.com/revolution/engines11/beta111/revolution.sit > > Windows, Linux and UNIX to follow tomorrow. > > Everyone please test this release right away as we are just about ready > to > ship it as version 1.1.1 and then go straight into the test cycle for > the > next release which is largely ready to go too. > > Just about everything is fixed though there are a few minor things that > we > are aware of. We aren't planning to make any further changes unless > something really serious comes back. > > Enjoy. > > Kevin > > Kevin Miller > Runtime Revolution Limited - Power to the Developer! > Tel: +44 (0) 870 747 1165. Fax: +44 (0)1639 830 707. > > _______________________________________________ > use-revolution mailing list > use-revolution at lists.runrev.com > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution > From djh at mac.com Tue Mar 19 11:13:01 2002 From: djh at mac.com (mac.com) Date: Tue Mar 19 11:13:01 2002 Subject: Rev 1.1.1B2/RC1 for Windows Message-ID: <004701c1cf60$c0936620$a7407ad5@dell34025djh> Hi everyone, is there any word on when revolution 1.1.1B2/RC1 will be out for Windows? Thanks Derek -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From rcozens at pon.net Tue Mar 19 11:15:01 2002 From: rcozens at pon.net (Rob Cozens) Date: Tue Mar 19 11:15:01 2002 Subject: [Q] send in time and response times from apps In-Reply-To: <004301c1cec1$3d9cc9e0$88b15bd1@lanfear> References: <006101c1ce64$c5178930$88b15bd1@lanfear> <004301c1cec1$3d9cc9e0$88b15bd1@lanfear> Message-ID: >i guess a lot of it depends on how much is going on in whatever application >the developer embeds the calendar into.. That's my assessment. In view of that, you might add a user-setable refresh rate property or parameter so each developer using your calendar can set it as needed. -- Rob Cozens CCW, Serendipity Software Company http://www.oenolog.com/who.htm "And I, which was two fooles, do so grow three; Who are a little wise, the best fooles bee." from "The Triple Foole" by John Donne (1572-1631) From martin at atwork.bdx.co.uk Tue Mar 19 12:29:01 2002 From: martin at atwork.bdx.co.uk (Martin Baxter) Date: Tue Mar 19 12:29:01 2002 Subject: Ah, I see what's happening (was quadra system bloat) Message-ID: >> Interested parties might want to see >> where I have posted >> screenshots of the "About this computer" dialog before launching revolution >> on the quadra and after it has choked because the system ran out of ram. >---------- >That just proves my point. You cannot use the REV UI on a stock Quadra 630. >If I use mine for Rev stuff, it'll be because I have hot-rodded the machine, >or to just run the engine and Geoff's revrtfer.rev stack for reference only. > >Best regards, >Ken N. Well, yes and no. Personally I think it's worse than that and that the 'after' screenshot shows that revolution is behaving very badly, and if (as I suspect) the behaviour depicted is typical of 68k mac then my advice would be 'don't use it in such machines'. To be sure, any 68k mac that works like mine and has less than 40 megs of ram is unlikely to even be able to launch revolution, never mind do anything afterwards. I've concluded that what's happening on the quadra, and I think the screenshot clearly shows this, is that revolution isn't using its own application memory partition for documents and data and instead is loading them into the operating system's memory partition, at any rate that's how it appears to the mac Finder. Surely it's not intended to work like that is it ? It just blithely fills up the system's ram with its stacks and whatever until there's no more system ram space left and the mac crashes of course. Possibly, the fact that at the same time there is an unused 17 megs or so free within rev's application memory partition results in some internal confusion about whether new ram space can be safely granted to the app, I don't know, I'm only guessing needless to say. Do 68k standalones work like this too? Any rate, I do think the system requirements quoted in the "Read Me First" file should be revised because they suggest it is possible to run revolution development environment on a mac with "24M total" ram, correct me if I'm wrong but this is impossible isn't it? martin baxter m a r t i n martin baxter Cambridge UK From dsc at swcp.com Tue Mar 19 13:30:01 2002 From: dsc at swcp.com (Dar Scott) Date: Tue Mar 19 13:30:01 2002 Subject: Am I the only one? (wasRe: Something strange... ) In-Reply-To: <3C94FED2.11F820EB@intermedia25.se> Message-ID: On Sunday, March 17, 2002, at 01:38 PM, Alexander Liden wrote: > I have still another question. Is Revolution version 1.1 (or 1.1.1) a > stable product. Many times I get errors from Revolution even when I'm > doing exactly by the manual. It's all right to have birth trouble, > every > new product has it, but I would like to know if other people experience > the unstability of Revolution or am I the only one. You are not alone. I am new to Revolution and I have had trouble with the "unstability of Revolution." Of course, some of the time I have probably inadvertently said, "Revolution, please lock up." However, some crashes are not mine. And little querks are not mine. You are right about "birth trouble". Revolution is multidimensional as far as development goes and growth on one front can affect another. Circumstances have trained the experienced user to certain methods. Newbies like us play an important role; we naively try things different ways; more than trying things, we click on cards or buttons in a weird order and strange things happen. Bugs that an experienced user will never find we find. My strategy is to watch the Revolution discussion lists while learning Revolution. There is a story about a Baptist preacher, a priest and a rabbi who went fishing at a small pond. At one point the priest stood up and said he was going to try the other side. He walked across the surface of the pond to the other side and dropped his line into the pond. A moment later the rabbi said he would do the same. And he did. The preacher stood there with his eyes open wide and then decided if they could do it, he could. With one step he fell into the pond. The priest turned to the rabbi and said, "Do you think we should have told him where the stones are?" Well, I, for one, appreciate those on this list letting us know where the stones are. Dar Scott Revolution Newbie From pixelbird at interisland.net Tue Mar 19 13:59:01 2002 From: pixelbird at interisland.net (Ken Norris (dialup)) Date: Tue Mar 19 13:59:01 2002 Subject: Ah, I see what's happening (was quadra system bloat) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: on 3/19/02 9:26 AM, Martin Baxter at martin at atwork.bdx.co.uk wrote: > I've concluded that what's happening on the quadra, and I think the > screenshot clearly shows this, is that revolution isn't using its own > application memory partition for documents and data and instead is loading > them into the operating system's memory partition, at any rate that's how > it appears to the mac Finder. ---------- I would think you're right, but I'm not sure. It certainly shouldn't install itself into the system folder at all, but on the desktop (that's where mine went). Did you copy it from another computer, or DL it from the website? Actually, it shouldn't matter. It should have ended up in a folder on the desktop. If that's where it is, though, and it starts using sys memory when it launches, it must be corrupted somehow. ---------- > Any rate, I do think the system requirements quoted in the "Read Me First" > file should be revised because they suggest it is possible to run > revolution development environment on a mac with "24M total" ram, correct > me if I'm wrong but this is impossible isn't it? ---------- Hmm...maybe that's a holdover from the original 1.0 version. Rev people? Best regards, Ken N. From os at brainbits.net Tue Mar 19 14:22:01 2002 From: os at brainbits.net (Olaf Schmidtmann) Date: Tue Mar 19 14:22:01 2002 Subject: Am I the only one? (wasRe: Something strange... ) Message-ID: <10F85FB0AADBD511880F004854133BC8012ECD@HAWK> Hi, I guess that I missed some stones, too :-) even if I didn?t went far with Rev yet. As Dar Scott I am watching the list and searching for notes about those mistakes but I guess that lots of the tiny bugs don?t even get a report here. Bug reporting is a lot of work because you have to reproduce the incident and at least explain it in detail. As far as I am concerned I will try to fill in some of the gaps as soon as I start to use Rev seriously. regards, Olaf > From: Dar Scott [mailto:dsc at swcp.com] > Sent: Tuesday, March 19, 2002 7:25 PM > > On Sunday, March 17, 2002, at 01:38 PM, Alexander Liden wrote: > > I have still another question. Is Revolution version 1.1 > (or 1.1.1) a > > stable product. Many times I get errors from Revolution > even when I'm > > doing exactly by the manual. It's all right to have birth trouble, > > every > > new product has it, but I would like to know if other > people experience > > the unstability of Revolution or am I the only one. > > You are not alone. I am new to Revolution and I have had trouble > with the "unstability of Revolution." > > Of course, some of the time I have probably inadvertently said, > "Revolution, please lock up." However, some crashes are not mine. > And little querks are not mine. > > You are right about "birth trouble". Revolution is > multidimensional as far as development goes and growth on one front > can affect another. > > Circumstances have trained the experienced user to certain > methods. Newbies like us play an important role; we naively try > things different ways; more than trying things, we click on cards > or buttons in a weird order and strange things happen. Bugs that > an experienced user will never find we find. > > My strategy is to watch the Revolution discussion lists while > learning Revolution. > > There is a story about a Baptist preacher, a priest and a rabbi who > went fishing at a small pond. At one point the priest stood up and > said he was going to try the other side. He walked across the > surface of the pond to the other side and dropped his line into the > pond. A moment later the rabbi said he would do the same. And he > did. The preacher stood there with his eyes open wide and then > decided if they could do it, he could. With one step he fell into > the pond. The priest turned to the rabbi and said, "Do you think > we should have told him where the stones are?" > > Well, I, for one, appreciate those on this list letting us know > where the stones are. > > Dar Scott > Revolution Newbie > > > _______________________________________________ > use-revolution mailing list > use-revolution at lists.runrev.com > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution > From JAMES.G.YATES at saic.com Tue Mar 19 14:32:01 2002 From: JAMES.G.YATES at saic.com (Yates, Glen) Date: Tue Mar 19 14:32:01 2002 Subject: Ah, I see what's happening (was quadra system bloat) Message-ID: <33F0B58BF432D211B72200805FEFAAD905A5C1@hun-its-exs01.saic.com> Huh?, Where an application is installed has no bearing on whether the app uses memory in its own space or in the system heap. It's all controlled by how the app allocates memory. If indeed Rev allocates memory from the system heap, then to optimize memory usage on a low memory mac, you should decrease the applications memory partition from the "Get Info" window. That will leave more memory available for the system heap to grow into. -Glen Yates > I would think you're right, but I'm not sure. It certainly > shouldn't install > itself into the system folder at all, but on the desktop > (that's where mine > went). Did you copy it from another computer, or DL it from > the website? > Actually, it shouldn't matter. It should have ended up in a > folder on the > desktop. If that's where it is, though, and it starts using > sys memory when > it launches, it must be corrupted somehow. From iansummerfield at btconnect.com Tue Mar 19 14:34:00 2002 From: iansummerfield at btconnect.com (Ian Summerfield) Date: Tue Mar 19 14:34:00 2002 Subject: UDP Broadcast (was Re: Program Linking) In-Reply-To: <6C374F64-3A08-11D6-846C-0050E4C0B205@swcp.com> Message-ID: On 18/3/02 12:38 am, "Dar Scott" scribed: >> on mouseup >> accept datagram connections on port 3052 with message "gotGram" >> end mouseup >> >> on gotGram fromwho,what >> if what is not empty then >> -- do whatever I want with the data >> end if >> read from socket 3052 with message "gotGram" >> end gotGram > > This has a problem on my system (OS X with R 1.1.1 RC1). You might > have it in yours. Try it with a beep or counter at the end of your > "gotGram" handler. I get a call back with an empty datagram not > only the first time but also repeatedly about 100 times a second. > Then I get socket timeout callbacks, even when I'm receiving > datagrams. This does indeed cause lots of beeps. I realised that was happening and wondered if it's harmful to anything. Anyway, it appears it is. I left the code running all night on OS X. By morning 150MB of remaining disk space had vanished - I don't know why but I blame Revolution. After running all night Revolution was unusable because it was bogged down doing something, thrashing the hard drive and on selecting quit it had the colourful spinning cursor in OS X stuck there and took about 15 minutes to quit. Anyway, I've since discovered, all those extra datagram's with no data in them also have an invalid sender IP address: 112.85.12.116|55011528 <<-- initial accept command! 192.168.1.50|55011528 <<- valid data coming in every 26 seconds 0.124.79.247|55011528 <<-- this one is repeated hundreds! 192.168.1.50|55011528 <<- valid data coming in every 26 seconds 0.124.79.247|55011528 <<-- this one is repeated hundreds! I'm thinking that because I know my device only sends a message every 26 seconds that I'll have to implement this workaround: on mouseup accept datagram connections on port 3052 with message "gotGram" end mouseup on gotGram fromwho,what if what is not empty then -- do whatever I want with the data end if put the pendingmessages into pm if "getgram" is not in pm then send "getGram" to me in 25 seconds end gotGram on getGram beep read from socket 3052 with message "gotGram" end getGram From os at brainbits.net Tue Mar 19 14:47:00 2002 From: os at brainbits.net (Olaf Schmidtmann) Date: Tue Mar 19 14:47:00 2002 Subject: Reading data from COM ports Message-ID: <10F85FB0AADBD511880F004854133BC8012ECE@HAWK> Hi, I am looking for a way to read data from a COM port continuously. The device measures electrical resistance and delivers values. Sadly I don?t have any interface specs so I want to find a way to interpret what I find myself. The software this thing normally uses is awful! I don?t know if this is covered by the use of 'read from file "COM:"' I tested it and didn?t get any usable data although the device works with its software. Does anybody have experiences with that? Thank you very much, Olaf -- Olaf Schmidtmann brainbits online & cross media mailto:os at brainbits.net / www.brainbits.net From rcozens at pon.net Tue Mar 19 15:02:01 2002 From: rcozens at pon.net (Rob Cozens) Date: Tue Mar 19 15:02:01 2002 Subject: Am I the only one? (wasRe: Something strange... ) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: >>I have still another question. Is Revolution version 1.1 (or 1.1.1) a >>stable product. Many times I get errors from Revolution even when I'm >>doing exactly by the manual. It's all right to have birth trouble, every >>new product has it, but I would like to know if other people experience >>the unstability of Revolution or am I the only one. > >You are not alone. I am new to Revolution and I have had trouble >with the "unstability of Revolution." Dar, Alexander, et al: If it helps at all, the instability you may experience relates to the Runtime Revolution development environment, not the underlying MetaCard engine. Prior to RunRev's release, when many people on the HyperCard List looked at MetaCard as an alternative to HyperCard and were turned off by the UI, I suggested one could set up a basic stack structure (cards, controls, etc) in HyperCard, import the stack to MetaCard, and add scripts, color, & finishing touches. Once the basic structure is in place, it's just you & the script editor, leaving others to encounter and squash any bugs in the rest of the development UI. Considering all they are trying to accomplish, I think the RunRev team has done well to bring us as complete a platform as they have. OTOH, I will note that, like blind persons exploring an elephant, we will each encounter different levels of instability depending on which features we are using. Personally, I'm waiting for you to beat all the bugs out of socket connections before I ever go there, Dar. :{`) -- Rob Cozens CCW, Serendipity Software Company http://www.oenolog.com/who.htm "And I, which was two fooles, do so grow three; Who are a little wise, the best fooles bee." from "The Triple Foole" by John Donne (1572-1631) From iansummerfield at btconnect.com Tue Mar 19 15:07:01 2002 From: iansummerfield at btconnect.com (Ian Summerfield) Date: Tue Mar 19 15:07:01 2002 Subject: Semi-OT: Cmd-key triggers for Answer Folder In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On 18/3/02 11:24 pm, "Richard Gaskin" scribed: > When using "answer folder", the Nav Services dialog lets you choose a > folder, with the buttons "Cancel", "Open", and "Choose" available. > > Cancel is triggered by the Escape key. > Open is triggered by Return, Enter, or Cmd-down arrow > > What about Choose? > > I've tried all manner of Cmd, Shift, and Opt options and I can't find the > magic sequence. > > Given that the Choose button is ultimately the whole point of that Nav > Servies dialog, it seems a strange ommission. What am I missing? > > Under Mac OS X the "Choose" button is the default button, so enter and return select it! It seems it will depend on your operating system as to what does what. From dsc at swcp.com Tue Mar 19 15:13:01 2002 From: dsc at swcp.com (Dar Scott) Date: Tue Mar 19 15:13:01 2002 Subject: UDP Broadcast (was Re: Program Linking) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <21F728A6-3B75-11D6-9862-0050E4C0B205@swcp.com> On Tuesday, March 19, 2002, at 12:32 PM, Ian Summerfield wrote: > Anyway, I've since discovered, all those extra datagram's with no > data in > them also have an invalid sender IP address: > > 112.85.12.116|55011528 <<-- initial accept command! > 192.168.1.50|55011528 <<- valid data coming in every 26 seconds > 0.124.79.247|55011528 <<-- this one is repeated hundreds! > 192.168.1.50|55011528 <<- valid data coming in every 26 seconds > 0.124.79.247|55011528 <<-- this one is repeated hundreds! I get 112.85.12.116, too, and 0.124.79.247 looks familiar. I get the same kind of behavior. Only I don't get messages from your UPS. ;-) > I'm thinking that because I know my device only sends a message > every 26 > seconds that I'll have to implement this workaround: > > on mouseup > accept datagram connections on port 3052 with message "gotGram" > end mouseup > > on gotGram fromwho,what > if what is not empty then > -- do whatever I want with the data > end if > put the pendingmessages into pm > if "getgram" is not in pm then send "getGram" to me in 25 seconds > end gotGram > > on getGram > beep > read from socket 3052 with message "gotGram" > end getGram Or something like this (ignoring stopping the thing for now for now): on mouseUp accept datagram connections on port 3052 with message "gotGram" end mouseUp on gotGram fromwhom,what if what is not empty then -- do whatever I want with the data close socket 3052 accept datagram connections on port 3052 with message "gotGram" end if end gotGram This assumes some minimum time between datagrams, of course. Datagrams that come in in the close-accept window will be lost. In applications like yours where you know the minimum interval, that is OK. That is OK in another large class of applications where a few lost messages are tolerated. If this works, I like this better, because I have no idea whether the read from an "accept datagram" is supposed to work and will work later or on other platforms. Part of my problem in thinking about this is not knowing if OS X UDP will be fixed next week, in six months or never. Dar From dsc at swcp.com Tue Mar 19 15:40:00 2002 From: dsc at swcp.com (Dar Scott) Date: Tue Mar 19 15:40:00 2002 Subject: Reading data from COM ports In-Reply-To: <10F85FB0AADBD511880F004854133BC8012ECE@HAWK> Message-ID: On Tuesday, March 19, 2002, at 12:43 PM, Olaf Schmidtmann wrote: > I am looking for a way to read data from a COM port continuously. > The device > measures electrical resistance and delivers values. Sadly I don?t > have any > interface specs so I want to find a way to interpret what I find > myself. Since you mention COM, I assume you are on Windows. Use a terminal program such as Hyperterminal to talk to the device. Fiddle with the port parameters such as the bit rate until you see something that might make sense. Note the bit rate and use it to set the serialControlString property just before your open. If you can't make any sense at any bit rate, the data might be in binary. That is, most bytes sent are not meaningful as an ASCII code. This can be painful to analyze and you might want to harass the manufacturer for details. Or you can try using your Revolution stack to read in uint (or convert later) and looking for patterns. You might need to borrow a 'scope if experiments don't get you a reasonable guess on the bit rate. You can also use the terminal program to test your COM script. Connect a null modem cable between COM1 and COM2. Open one with the terminal program and open the other with your script. (You can also use two computers.) From your description, I have assumed the device repeatedly sends data without stimulus from the computer. However, it may be it needs a "command" from the computer. You might be able to get this by the same loop-back method as above. Run the terminal program first and then the current software. (One of my mid-term goals in using Revolution is to make some portable tools that can be used in analyzing situations like this. LabView might be better for that, but it is expensive.) I'm working on a simple card for some serial tests, but I have to put that off for a couple days. Let us know how this works out for you. Dar Scott From yvescoppe at skynet.be Tue Mar 19 15:57:01 2002 From: yvescoppe at skynet.be (yves COPPE) Date: Tue Mar 19 15:57:01 2002 Subject: write a letter Message-ID: Hello I've a stack I use as database with cards : names, adresses? From dsc at swcp.com Tue Mar 19 16:22:01 2002 From: dsc at swcp.com (Dar Scott) Date: Tue Mar 19 16:22:01 2002 Subject: Am I the only one? (wasRe: Something strange... ) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Tuesday, March 19, 2002, at 12:46 PM, Rob Cozens wrote: > Personally, I'm waiting for you to beat all the bugs out of socket > connections before I ever go there, Dar. :{`) Is that tongue in cheek? As far as I know TCP works OK. (Though there is some doubt about socketError.) It is not (yet) possible to set the local port, but for 95% of the usages, that is not needed. The chat example is a good illustration of using TCP and includes a server (which many applications don't need). Most of the problems I have noted are with UDP on my OS X system, my primary computer and where I first installed Revolution. I have not found a general method to get the local IP address that I like. But overall, I think Revolution sockets are OK. I'd be outa here, if I didn't think so. I'm currently beating on process read/write and serial I/O is getting nervous. (I can get around some problems in fluff, both in the engine and in the development environment, but I have core needs.) Dar Scott From bvlahos at jpl.nasa.gov Tue Mar 19 18:17:01 2002 From: bvlahos at jpl.nasa.gov (Bill Vlahos) Date: Tue Mar 19 18:17:01 2002 Subject: Transparency Message-ID: <26528846-3B8F-11D6-9001-003065E6E4BC@jpl.nasa.gov> It looks like you can make object, including fields, transparent. In fact it looks like you can do it three ways on the Mac. Two are for all platforms and one is Mac only. Two are both set in the ink propery and the other is simply the opaque property. Generic: notScrXor Mac only: transparent My question is can any of these be set for %transparency? This comes from examples in Mac OS X using the Quartz graphics engine. Bill Vlahos From sarahr at genesearch.com.au Tue Mar 19 18:18:00 2002 From: sarahr at genesearch.com.au (Sarah Reichelt) Date: Tue Mar 19 18:18:00 2002 Subject: Reading data from COM ports In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <5047B5B2-3B8F-11D6-9A8D-00306566C7B4@genesearch.com.au> I have a serial port test stack that I can send if you are interested. I have submitted it to the Revolution user contributions but it hasn't appeared yet, so I can send it to you directly if you would like. It allows you to specify various serial port parameters and send & receive data. Cheers, Sarah On Wednesday, March 20, 2002, at 05:43 am, Olaf Schmidtmann wrote: > Hi, > I am looking for a way to read data from a COM port continuously. The > device > measures electrical resistance and delivers values. Sadly I don?t have > any > interface specs so I want to find a way to interpret what I find > myself. The > software this thing normally uses is awful! > I don?t know if this is covered by the use of 'read from file > "COM:"' I > tested it and didn?t get any usable data although the device works with > its > software. Does anybody have experiences with that? > Thank you very much, > Olaf From martin at atwork.bdx.co.uk Tue Mar 19 18:52:01 2002 From: martin at atwork.bdx.co.uk (Martin Baxter) Date: Tue Mar 19 18:52:01 2002 Subject: Ah, I see what's happening (was quadra system bloat) Message-ID: >"Ken Norris (dialup)" wrote: > >on 3/19/02 9:26 AM, Martin Baxter at martin at atwork.bdx.co.uk wrote: > >> I've concluded that what's happening on the quadra, and I think the >> screenshot clearly shows this, is that revolution isn't using its own >> application memory partition for documents and data and instead is loading >> them into the operating system's memory partition, at any rate that's how >> it appears to the mac Finder. >---------- >I would think you're right, but I'm not sure. It certainly shouldn't install >itself into the system folder at all, Ken, Hey man, now, did I actually say anything about the system folder or installation or disks? No, I did not. You misunderstood what I'm talking about. I completely forgive you though;) after all it's probably because I'm not communicating very well, so let me try and be very clear. I'm simply talking about RAM - that is *memory*. I realise you understand the definition that follows, but I thought it best to include it in the hope of clarifying the terms I'm using..... In the Classic Mac the available RAM is divided up into *partitions*. Each partition belongs to an application that is running and whatever RAM is left over outside of those is what the operating *system* (the OS) uses for itself. The idea is that each application program is supposed to stick to keeping it's own data in it's own partition. So to the situation I'm trying to explain; 1) The system (the OS) is of course already loaded into RAM 2) I launch Revolution by double-clicking it 3) A partition is created in RAM for Revolution to put all its stuff in (there are now in effect 2 partitions in RAM, revolution's and the system's) 4) The revolution application is loaded into the revolution RAM partition by the Finder (that's normal) 5) Revolution begins running and starts loading its various stacks *into the System's RAM partition* (that's not normal at all, revolution should put them in its own partition.) 6) Revolution keeps loading stacks into the system's RAM partition until the system's RAM partition is full. 7) Once the system's RAM is full, the computer crashes (with no warning whatever) because the system has absolutely no RAM to work in anymore - all the RAM it ought to have available is now full of Revolution stacks. 8) This is despite the fact that there is actually loads of RAM unused in Revolution's own partition, because it has never put anything there. By increasing the RAM available (physical or virtual, the type isn't relevant to this issue) all we are doing is delaying the time when the system's RAM partition gets filled up and the mac unceremoniously crashes. If you give it a large enough amount of RAM, or only load a few small stacks, you may be able to get away with working for a fairly long time without a crash happening, fine I suppose if you don't mind the risk to the other data on your computer from random crashes, but the underlying problem has not in any way been solved, it's still an inherently unstable situation because an application is writing data into a part of RAM that it has no right to use. Do you see what I'm saying now Ken ? martin =) martin baxter Cambridge UK From raney at metacard.com Tue Mar 19 18:59:00 2002 From: raney at metacard.com (Scott Raney) Date: Tue Mar 19 18:59:00 2002 Subject: Ah, I see what's happening (was quadra system bloat) In-Reply-To: <200203192058.PAA10587@www.runrev.com> Message-ID: On Tue, 19 Mar 2002 wrote: > I've concluded that what's happening on the quadra, and I think the > screenshot clearly shows this, is that revolution isn't using its own > application memory partition for documents and data and instead is loading > them into the operating system's memory partition, at any rate that's how > it appears to the mac Finder. > Surely it's not intended to work like that is it ? Actually it is, as are most other modern apps including all WWW browsers and most "office" type packages: The MacOS "partition" architecture is just fundamentally incompatible with the way applications that can open different sized documents work. This is just naturally the way applications on all other OSs (including Mac OS X) work too. > It just blithely fills up the system's ram with its stacks and whatever > until there's no more system ram space left and the mac crashes of course. As opposed to the way other older apps work, which is to just more quickly fill up their own partitions and then crash the system ;-) > Possibly, the fact that at the same time there is an unused 17 megs or so > free within rev's application memory partition results in some internal > confusion about whether new ram space can be safely granted to the app, I > don't know, I'm only guessing needless to say. No, the app's partition is only used for a few small things that MacOS still requires be allocated there (QT stuff mostly at this point). This means that increasing the engine's partition size is usually counterproductive because it will actually *decrease* the amount of memory available to it. The only exception would be some QT-intensive apps where increasing the partition a bit may improve performance and increase the number of movies you can play at one time. There is a way to get the fixed-partition behavior, though, and that is just to change the two bytes in the TMEM resource to 0s. You should never do this for the development environment, though, and the only good reason for doing it at all would be if your app needs to run on systems with ill-behaved apps that also use system memory, RamDoubler being the most notable example. > Do 68k standalones work like this too? Yes, again unless you change the TMEM resources. Regards, Scott > martin baxter > > m a r t i n > > martin baxter Cambridge UK -- ******************************************************** Scott Raney raney at metacard.com http://www.metacard.com MetaCard: You know, there's an easier way to do that... From martin at atwork.bdx.co.uk Tue Mar 19 19:07:01 2002 From: martin at atwork.bdx.co.uk (Martin Baxter) Date: Tue Mar 19 19:07:01 2002 Subject: (no subject) Message-ID: >Yates, Glen Wrote: > >If indeed Rev allocates memory from the system >heap, then to optimize memory usage on a low memory mac, you should decrease >the applications memory partition from the "Get Info" window. That will >leave more memory available for the system heap to grow into. > >-Glen Yates > That's true enough Glen, however, it is not my idea of a solution. More a remedy of desperation. The solution is surely for the application to not do that in the first place. I can't believe it's really necessary, and it makes your computer crash. Anyway I thought of an even better solution - I erased Revolution from the Quadra - no more problem. Everything happy now. Aaahh. martin martin baxter Cambridge UK From raney at metacard.com Tue Mar 19 19:28:01 2002 From: raney at metacard.com (Scott Raney) Date: Tue Mar 19 19:28:01 2002 Subject: UDP Broadcast (was Re: Program Linking) Message-ID: On Tue, 19 Mar 2002 Dar Scott wrote: (snip) > If this works, I like this better, because I have no idea whether > the read from an "accept datagram" is supposed to work and will > work later or on other platforms. You don't read from a accept-datagram socket: the data is delivered with the message. > Part of my problem in thinking about this is not knowing if OS X > UDP will be fixed next week, in six months or never. How about "Three days ago"? It's fixed in MC 2.4.2 beta 3. Unfortunately you can't use that engine with RR yet, but they're supposed to start their own beta testing on their next release using that engine RSN. This was just a chance occurrance, though, because things like this are not guaranteed to happen: we still have not received a bug report on this issue, and if things are not reported they will often just slip through the cracks... Regards, Scott > Dar ******************************************************** Scott Raney raney at metacard.com http://www.metacard.com MetaCard: You know, there's an easier way to do that... From rcozens at pon.net Tue Mar 19 20:14:25 2002 From: rcozens at pon.net (Rob Cozens) Date: Tue Mar 19 20:14:25 2002 Subject: Reading data from COM ports In-Reply-To: <10F85FB0AADBD511880F004854133BC8012ECE@HAWK> References: <10F85FB0AADBD511880F004854133BC8012ECE@HAWK> Message-ID: >I am looking for a way to read data from a COM port continuously. The device >measures electrical resistance and delivers values. Sadly I don?t have any >interface specs so I want to find a way to interpret what I find myself. The >software this thing normally uses is awful! Hi Olaf, If I recall correctly from my membership in the FreeCard project, Uli Kusterer (Witness.of.TeachText at gmx.net) has done some work using HyperTalk to control theatrical lighting. Should you contact him, tell him I said hello & asked if he ever read Deepak Chopra's "How to Know God". -- Rob Cozens CCW, Serendipity Software Company http://www.oenolog.com/who.htm "And I, which was two fooles, do so grow three; Who are a little wise, the best fooles bee." from "The Triple Foole" by John Donne (1572-1631) From pixelbird at interisland.net Tue Mar 19 20:57:01 2002 From: pixelbird at interisland.net (Ken Norris) Date: Tue Mar 19 20:57:01 2002 Subject: write a letter In-Reply-To: Message-ID: on 3/19/02 12:53 PM, yves COPPE at yvescoppe at skynet.be wrote: > I've a stack I use as database with cards : names, adresses? > For example : my own adress must come at 2 cm (I don't meet in > inches!) of the top of the paper and at 3 cm of the left margin of > the paper and centered align on a length of 7 cm, and so on? > Some words or lines in plain, some in bold, some in plain? > > Any idea ? ---------- I think I'd set the page(s) up in Apple/Claris Works or the like. It's what they're designed to do. I think you can set the rulers to cm if you want. From pixelbird at interisland.net Tue Mar 19 21:01:01 2002 From: pixelbird at interisland.net (Ken Norris) Date: Tue Mar 19 21:01:01 2002 Subject: Double posts In-Reply-To: <21F728A6-3B75-11D6-9862-0050E4C0B205@swcp.com> Message-ID: Not topic relevent, but Dar's and Ian's and yves' posts are all showing up twice on the list. Regards, Ken N. From pixelbird at interisland.net Tue Mar 19 23:14:01 2002 From: pixelbird at interisland.net (Ken Norris) Date: Tue Mar 19 23:14:01 2002 Subject: Ah, I see what's happening (was quadra system bloat) In-Reply-To: <33F0B58BF432D211B72200805FEFAAD905A5C1@hun-its-exs01.saic.com> Message-ID: on 3/19/02 11:27 AM, Yates, Glen at JAMES.G.YATES at saic.com wrote: > Huh?, Where an application is installed has no bearing on whether the app > uses memory in its own space or in the system heap. It's all controlled by > how the app allocates memory. If indeed Rev allocates memory from the system > heap, then to optimize memory usage on a low memory mac, you should decrease > the applications memory partition from the "Get Info" window. That will > leave more memory available for the system heap to grow into. ---------- Yes, you're right. Sorry if I implied otherwise. I keep the memory allocation at the suggested 20 mb, but decreasing the memory allocation in this case _should_ work. However, I tried that when I first started with Rev, and got it to work a little better, but it still wasn't enough (still crashing, but less often), so I put it back to 20 and cranked up the Virtual RAM and restarted. That has worked pretty well, albeit a bit slow sometimes. Still takes forever to close when I finish a session, and afterwards, I have to run other programs for awhile or restart to get everything back to normal. I'm convinced you should have a minimum of 128 mb RAM to use Rev 'normally'. I _know_ opening the docs/dictionary sucks up a bunch really quick. Best regards, Ken N. From pixelbird at interisland.net Wed Mar 20 00:15:01 2002 From: pixelbird at interisland.net (Ken Norris) Date: Wed Mar 20 00:15:01 2002 Subject: Ah, I see what's happening (was quadra system bloat) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: on 3/19/02 3:49 PM, Martin Baxter at martin at atwork.bdx.co.uk wrote: > Do you see what I'm saying now Ken ? ---------- Yeah, I do now. I'm not always cognitive about exactly how things are supposed to work, but thanks to folks like you, I am learning. Reading Scott Raney's explanation may help us understand, but it certainly isn't the way I'm used to seeing Mac apps work, and it won't make the average 68k Mac work any better for developing in Rev. Actually, the color 68k machine I have that can have the most memory (128 mb) is also the oldest I have: a Mac IIci. I'm gonna hotrod the crap out of it, see what I can make it do, just for kicks. Got lotsa stuff lined up for it. I like the idea of a cross-platform RAD environment like MC/Rev, especially with Rev's extensive UI, but it has to cover a _lot_ of ground. At the present, I'm just reading the list and playing with some of the things I want to do. Being able to fully script images still amazes me. But, I personally won't do any extensive work until I get machines I know can handle it. FWIW, one of my goals is to have a complete set of working docs (needs the MC engine, but little else) in a dedicated 'reference' computer, which is what I may use the Quadra for. That way, I can access anything in the docs without 'hiding' my work. I can test scripts without having to toggle back and forth between my work stack and the docs stacks. All the best, Ken N. From pixelbird at interisland.net Wed Mar 20 01:45:01 2002 From: pixelbird at interisland.net (Ken Norris) Date: Wed Mar 20 01:45:01 2002 Subject: (no subject) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: on 3/19/02 4:05 PM, Martin Baxter at martin at atwork.bdx.co.uk wrote: > The solution is surely for the application to not do that in the first > place. I can't believe it's really necessary, and it makes your computer > crash. ---------- I'm sure it has much to do with Rev's UI and extensive libraries, together with it's cross-platform abilities. It has to cover a lot of ground, as I said before. It's probably a sacrifice that needed to be made for OS X, too, according to Scott R. It's almost impossible to make it do all that and run perfectly on old Macs with low memory as well. I don't know of another dev tool that does as much. But, I do agree, they should leave another way out, trap for low memory and give a warning dialog or something, before it causes a crash, or, at the least, tell the whole truth about how much memory you'll need for a given machine and OS. ---------- > Anyway I thought of an even better solution - I erased Revolution from the > Quadra - no more problem. Everything happy now. Aaahh. ---------- See, I...never mind...I won't say it... All the best, Ken N. From iansummerfield at btconnect.com Wed Mar 20 01:56:01 2002 From: iansummerfield at btconnect.com (Ian Summerfield) Date: Wed Mar 20 01:56:01 2002 Subject: UDP Broadcast (was Re: Program Linking) In-Reply-To: <21F728A6-3B75-11D6-9862-0050E4C0B205@swcp.com> Message-ID: On 19/3/02 8:08 pm, "Dar Scott" scribed: > Or something like this (ignoring stopping the thing for now for now): > > on mouseUp > accept datagram connections on port 3052 with message "gotGram" > end mouseUp > > on gotGram fromwhom,what > if what is not empty then > -- do whatever I want with the data > close socket 3052 > accept datagram connections on port 3052 with message "gotGram" > end if > end gotGram > Thanks for that, it works great. A beep shows two datagrams per one sent (if that makes sense), the first is the garbage one coming from the accept command. I decided to make it into an OS X fix, so when running under OS 9 it works normally: on mouseUp accept datagram connections on port 3052 with message "gotGram" end mouseUp on gotGram fromwhom,what beep if what is not empty then -- do whatever I want with the data if the platform && the systemversion contains "MacOS 10" then close socket 3052 accept datagram connections on port 3052 with message "gotGram" end if end if end gotGram From dsc at swcp.com Wed Mar 20 02:54:01 2002 From: dsc at swcp.com (Dar Scott) Date: Wed Mar 20 02:54:01 2002 Subject: UDP Broadcast (was Re: Program Linking) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <0C4BE870-3BD7-11D6-982D-0050E4C0B205@swcp.com> On Tuesday, March 19, 2002, at 05:26 PM, Scott Raney wrote: >> Part of my problem in thinking about this is not knowing if OS X >> UDP will be fixed next week, in six months or never. > > How about "Three days ago"? It's fixed in MC 2.4.2 beta 3. Cool! That's great, Scott! > This was just a chance occurrance, though, because things like this > are not guaranteed to happen: we still have not received a bug report > on this issue, and if things are not reported they will often just > slip through the cracks... I would like to do my part in this machinery, especially concerning features important to me. I have seen indications that Revolution bug reports should go to support at runrev.com and I have seen indications that they should go to improve-revolution. I somewhat go back and forth depending on what I read last, but lean toward improve-revolution because I'm not sure whether I'm doing something dumb or for some other reason a discussion would help. Maybe I should send them to improve-revolution and then based on discussion send them on to support. I'm willing to do what I can to help people confirm a bug. What is the right way to report bugs, Runtime Revolution? I think I should look at the MC Starter Kit, too. If there is a mechanism for MC Starter Kit users to report bugs, then I might do that (if appropriate). Dar Scott From jlder at guetali.fr Wed Mar 20 04:11:01 2002 From: jlder at guetali.fr (DERRIEN Jean-Luc) Date: Wed Mar 20 04:11:01 2002 Subject: help : recording problems Message-ID: <3C985F47.D35F8F32@guetali.fr> My computer is a Macintosh PPC G4. How do I write the proper command in a script to record a sound with a microphone? If I use the following script: record sound file "sound.mov" with dialog everything is fine both on Mac OS and on Windows. I can select different formats and parameters and I get good results with the following command: play videoClip "sound.mov" Besides, QuicTime recognizes the selected parameters in the "infos about the file" section. But waht shall I have to write in a script if I don't want to use the "with dialog" form? I tried "record sound file "sound.mov" as 4CC "ulaw" with good quality" as indicated in the Documentation. But an error message pops up. Apparently the 4CC bit is not welcome. I tried "record sound file "sound.mov" as "ulaw" with best quality". I get no error message, but QuickTime does not recognize the "with best quality" parameter, which is supposed to stand for 44000 khz and takes a default value into account instead (11025 khz) In addition to that, if the recording based on the "record sound file "sound.mov" as "ulaw" with best quality" command does work on Mac OS it doesn't on Windows. There is a loud background noise. So, How do I write the command starting: "record sound file...." if I want to use, for inst ance, MAC3 for the compression and 44000 khz as frequency. Regards Jean-Luc Derrien From jeanne at runrev.com Wed Mar 20 04:47:11 2002 From: jeanne at runrev.com (Jeanne A. E. DeVoto) Date: Wed Mar 20 04:47:11 2002 Subject: employee db tutorial In-Reply-To: <004801c1ce8a$14597420$d86600d8@s1> Message-ID: At 6:34 AM -0800 3/18/2002, BCE wrote: >Just tried the beta 2 on Mac OS 9 and the pic feature doesn't work quite >right in the employee database tutorial --- nothing is visible when you add >a pic to the file. Thanks for the report - this will be fixed in the final. -- Jeanne A. E. DeVoto ~ jeanne at runrev.com http://www.runrev.com/ Runtime Revolution Limited - Power to the Developer! From jeanne at runrev.com Wed Mar 20 04:47:36 2002 From: jeanne at runrev.com (Jeanne A. E. DeVoto) Date: Wed Mar 20 04:47:36 2002 Subject: Transparency In-Reply-To: <26528846-3B8F-11D6-9001-003065E6E4BC@jpl.nasa.gov> Message-ID: At 3:15 PM -0800 3/19/2002, Bill Vlahos wrote: >It looks like you can make object, including fields, transparent. In >fact it looks like you can do it three ways on the Mac. Two are for all >platforms and one is Mac only. Two are both set in the ink propery and >the other is simply the opaque property. > >Generic: notScrXor > >Mac only: transparent > >My question is can any of these be set for %transparency? This comes >from examples in Mac OS X using the Quartz graphics engine. At present, just images (using the blendLevel property). Other objects don't support variable transparency. -- Jeanne A. E. DeVoto ~ jeanne at runrev.com http://www.runrev.com/ Runtime Revolution Limited - Power to the Developer! From os at brainbits.net Wed Mar 20 04:50:01 2002 From: os at brainbits.net (Olaf Schmidtmann) Date: Wed Mar 20 04:50:01 2002 Subject: Reading data from COM ports Message-ID: <10F85FB0AADBD511880F004854133BC8012ED3@HAWK> Hi Sarah, thank you - that?s very kind :-) John Cuccio got your serial stack already and sent it to me. I will check it out though I think Rev isn?t problem. It seems that the device uses a non-standard way of communication. greetinx, Olaf -- Olaf Schmidtmann brainbits online & cross media mailto:os at brainbits.net / www.brainbits.net > -----Original Message----- > From: Sarah Reichelt [mailto:sarahr at genesearch.com.au] > Sent: Wednesday, March 20, 2002 12:16 AM > To: use-revolution at lists.runrev.com > Subject: Re: Reading data from COM ports > > > I have a serial port test stack that I can send if you are > interested. I > have submitted it to the Revolution user contributions but it hasn't > appeared yet, so I can send it to you directly if you would like. > > It allows you to specify various serial port parameters and send & > receive data. > > Cheers, > Sarah > > > On Wednesday, March 20, 2002, at 05:43 am, Olaf Schmidtmann wrote: > > > Hi, > > I am looking for a way to read data from a COM port > continuously. The > > device > > measures electrical resistance and delivers values. Sadly I > don?t have > > any > > interface specs so I want to find a way to interpret what I find > > myself. The > > software this thing normally uses is awful! > > I don?t know if this is covered by the use of 'read from file > > "COM:"' I > > tested it and didn?t get any usable data although the > device works with > > its > > software. Does anybody have experiences with that? > > Thank you very much, > > Olaf > > _______________________________________________ > use-revolution mailing list > use-revolution at lists.runrev.com > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution > From jeanne at runrev.com Wed Mar 20 06:06:00 2002 From: jeanne at runrev.com (Jeanne A. E. DeVoto) Date: Wed Mar 20 06:06:00 2002 Subject: Turn off nav with arrow keys? In-Reply-To: <9529326C-3B4C-11D6-BB6B-003065CCBD1A@studioalice.se> Message-ID: At 7:18 AM -0800 3/19/2002, Magnus von Br?msen wrote: >on openCard > set the navigationsArrow to false >end openCard > >The app is made of 3 stack-files, so I put this script i each >main-stack. Or...? Actually, for a standalone, you can just set this once, in the startup handler of your main stack script: on startup set the navigationArrows to false end startup As long as nothing else is setting the property, it will be retained until you quit the application. No need to set it every time you move from card to card. -- Jeanne A. E. DeVoto ~ jeanne at runrev.com http://www.runrev.com/ Runtime Revolution Limited - Power to the Developer! From giulio at cantoberon.it Wed Mar 20 07:22:01 2002 From: giulio at cantoberon.it (Giulio Mastrosanti) Date: Wed Mar 20 07:22:01 2002 Subject: Replacing placeholders with variables on revdb_execute In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Hi, I'm trying my first insert on a MySQL database I have a table named pwd with two columns,idconnessione is my connection id, but if I try something like: put "aa" into a put "bb" into b put "insert into pwd values(:1,:2)" into q put revdb_execute(idconnessione,q,a,b) into risultato I have an error, because I've seen the string sent to MySQL contains "insert into pwd values(:1,:2)", no substitution of :1 with a and :2 with b as expected. Am I missing something? Grazie, Giulio From benr_mc at cogapp.com Wed Mar 20 07:59:01 2002 From: benr_mc at cogapp.com (Ben Rubinstein) Date: Wed Mar 20 07:59:01 2002 Subject: assign by reference (arrays)? Message-ID: Is there any way to assign by reference? I have half a dozen arrays in half a dozen variables. As I'm in a loop processing some incoming data, in response to the data I pick one of these arrays that I want to work on (including modifying some data in the array). If the code that worked on the array was in a sub-procedure, I could do something like this switch (...) case a: dostuffto(arrayA, ...) break case b: dostuffto(arrayB, ...) break end switch .... provided that 'dostuffto' was declared to take the first parameter by reference. But what if want to do the stuff inline? I tried this: switch (...) case a: get arrayA break case b: get arrayB break end switch ...do stuff to array in 'it'... But this doesn't work, because the statement "get arrayA" puts a _copy_ of the array in the variable "arrayA" into the variable "it". Fine if you only wanted to do stuff that involves reading data out of the array; no good if you also want to write to it. So is there a way to say "put x into y" that means "make 'y' point to the same object as 'x'"??? Ben Rubinstein | Email: benr_mc at cogapp.com Cognitive Applications Ltd | Phone: +44 (0)1273-821600 http://www.cogapp.com | Fax : +44 (0)1273-728866 From martin at atwork.bdx.co.uk Wed Mar 20 08:07:01 2002 From: martin at atwork.bdx.co.uk (Martin Baxter) Date: Wed Mar 20 08:07:01 2002 Subject: Ah, I see what's happening (was quadra system bloat) Message-ID: Thank you for the explanation Scott, helpful and informative as ever. I may not be able to read the transcript dictionary at home yet, but as a side effect of trying, I've learned some useful things about how this software works that allows me to conceptualise what I'm working with more confidently. >> It just blithely fills up the system's ram with its stacks and whatever >> until there's no more system ram space left and the mac crashes of course. > >Scott Raney wrote: >As opposed to the way other older apps work, which is to just more >quickly fill up their own partitions and then crash the system ;-) Some of them do yes, but round these here parts we tend to trash that kind of app unsentimentally ;-) martin From martin at atwork.bdx.co.uk Wed Mar 20 08:08:00 2002 From: martin at atwork.bdx.co.uk (Martin Baxter) Date: Wed Mar 20 08:08:00 2002 Subject: The Quadra thing Message-ID: >Ken Norris wrote: >FWIW, one of my goals is to have a complete set of working docs (needs the >MC engine, but little else) in a dedicated 'reference' computer, which is >what I may use the Quadra for. That way, I can access anything in the docs >without 'hiding' my work. I can test scripts without having to toggle back >and forth between my work stack and the docs stacks. > Let me know if you manage it, I can certainly see the value of that... >> Anyway I thought of an even better solution - I erased Revolution from the >> Quadra - no more problem. Everything happy now. Aaahh. >---------- >See, I...never mind...I won't say it... > Yup, you were right all along. chastened, martin =) From os at brainbits.net Wed Mar 20 08:18:00 2002 From: os at brainbits.net (Olaf Schmidtmann) Date: Wed Mar 20 08:18:00 2002 Subject: Reading data from COM ports Message-ID: <10F85FB0AADBD511880F004854133BC8012EDB@HAWK> Hello Rob, thanks for the advice! I will try to contact Uli Kusterer and tell you what happened. Though this Chopra-thing is quite a mystery to me :-) Cheers, Olaf > From: Rob Cozens [mailto:rcozens at pon.net] > Sent: Wednesday, March 20, 2002 2:12 AM > > >I am looking for a way to read data from a COM port > continuously. The device > >measures electrical resistance and delivers values. Sadly I > don?t have any > >interface specs so I want to find a way to interpret what I > find myself. The > >software this thing normally uses is awful! > > Hi Olaf, > > If I recall correctly from my membership in the FreeCard > project, Uli Kusterer > (Witness.of.TeachText at gmx.net) has done some work using HyperTalk to > control theatrical lighting. Should you contact him, tell him I said > hello & asked if he ever read Deepak Chopra's "How to Know God". > -- > > Rob Cozens > CCW, Serendipity Software Company > http://www.oenolog.com/who.htm > > "And I, which was two fooles, do so grow three; > Who are a little wise, the best fooles bee." > > from "The Triple Foole" by John Donne (1572-1631) > _______________________________________________ > use-revolution mailing list > use-revolution at lists.runrev.com > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution > From jeanne at runrev.com Wed Mar 20 08:19:01 2002 From: jeanne at runrev.com (Jeanne A. E. DeVoto) Date: Wed Mar 20 08:19:01 2002 Subject: assign by reference (arrays)? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: At 4:57 AM -0800 3/20/2002, Ben Rubinstein wrote: >Is there any way to assign by reference? Calling parameters by reference: If the name of a parameter variable is preceded with the @ character, that parameter's value is a variable name, rather than the value in the variable. Changing the parameter variable in the called handler changes the value of the variable in the calling handler. The following handler takes a parameter and simply adds 1 to it: on setVariable @incomingVar add 1 to incomingVar end setVariable This handler calls the "setVariable" handler above: on mouseUp put 8 into someVariable setVariable someVariable answer "someVariable is now:" && someVariable end mouseUp Executing this mouseUp handler displays a dialog box that says "someVariable is now: 9". This is because, since someVariable was passed by reference to the setVariable handler, its value was changed when setVariable added 1 to the corresponding parameter variable. -- Jeanne A. E. DeVoto ~ jeanne at runrev.com http://www.runrev.com/ Runtime Revolution Limited - Power to the Developer! From markmac at shaw.ca Wed Mar 20 08:25:01 2002 From: markmac at shaw.ca (Mark MacKenzie) Date: Wed Mar 20 08:25:01 2002 Subject: 3D libraries Message-ID: <000c01c1d013$2bd32b20$a39a5518@ss.shawcable.net> Are there any cross platform 3D libraries useable with Revolution? If nothing else, can a 3D object be created in QuickTime by Revolution? I have an idea for a program for cabinetmakers and craftsmen but I would like to add a visualization step for the finished product and that would require a 3D library I think. Any thoughts, suggestions, or best of all teaching examples? Regards Mark From benr_mc at cogapp.com Wed Mar 20 09:07:01 2002 From: benr_mc at cogapp.com (Ben Rubinstein) Date: Wed Mar 20 09:07:01 2002 Subject: assign by reference (arrays)? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: on 20/3/02 1:16 PM, Jeanne A. E. DeVoto at jeanne at runrev.com wrote: > At 4:57 AM -0800 3/20/2002, Ben Rubinstein wrote: >> Is there any way to assign by reference? > > Calling parameters by reference: > If the name of a parameter variable is preceded with the @ character, that > parameter's value is a variable name, rather than the value in the > variable. Changing the parameter variable in the called handler changes the > value of the variable in the calling handler. Right, I get all that. My point is that I can do it in a procedure, but I can't find a way to do it inline. >> I could do something like this >> (snip) >> .... provided that 'dostuffto' was declared to take the first parameter by >> reference. But what if want to do the stuff inline? I tried this: >> (snip) >> But this doesn't work >> (snip) >> So is there a way to say "put x into y" that means "make 'y' point to the >> same object as 'x'"??? It seems counter-intuitive that I can make a parameter in subroutine refer to the same object as a variable in my routine, but I can't make two variables in my routines do so. Ben Rubinstein | Email: benr_mc at cogapp.com Cognitive Applications Ltd | Phone: +44 (0)1273-821600 http://www.cogapp.com | Fax : +44 (0)1273-728866 From mark at bcesouth.com Wed Mar 20 09:33:00 2002 From: mark at bcesouth.com (BCE) Date: Wed Mar 20 09:33:00 2002 Subject: a tip for newbies (like me) Message-ID: <006101c1d01b$e9ba9c60$d86600d8@s1> I keep forgetting this each time I try it, so I thought I might save someone else the time of wondering what in the world is happening if they try this too. And maybe I'll remember it if I wirte it down! The goal: Ask a user for a text file, then put the contents into a field. Simple enough. The WRONG method: on mouseup ask file "What file?" put "file:" & it into field "myField" end mouseup The RIGHT method: (at least for me, on windows) on mouseup ask file "What file?" put ("file:" & it) into field "myField" end mouseup Notice the parentheses in the second line --- they make the difference. Otherwise, just the name of the file is put into the field, and not the contents, and a lot of hair pulling occurs. Apparently if you're concantenating a variable and some text into the name of a file, this needs to be done. Hope that helps some folks out. Later! Mark Paris From rcozens at pon.net Wed Mar 20 10:33:01 2002 From: rcozens at pon.net (Rob Cozens) Date: Wed Mar 20 10:33:01 2002 Subject: Reading data from COM ports In-Reply-To: <10F85FB0AADBD511880F004854133BC8012EDB@HAWK> References: <10F85FB0AADBD511880F004854133BC8012EDB@HAWK> Message-ID: >thanks for the advice! I will try to contact Uli Kusterer and tell you what >happened. Though this Chopra-thing is quite a mystery to me :-) Olaf, Do let me know if you hear from Uli. I think you will enjoy corresponding with him and find him very helpful. The Chopra reference is just a follow on to a lengthy philosophical discussion Uli & I had a few years ago. (The FreeCard List seemed to get around to talking about altruism vs egoism every few months.) -- Rob Cozens CCW, Serendipity Software Company http://www.oenolog.com/who.htm "And I, which was two fooles, do so grow three; Who are a little wise, the best fooles bee." from "The Triple Foole" by John Donne (1572-1631) From os at brainbits.net Wed Mar 20 11:15:01 2002 From: os at brainbits.net (Olaf Schmidtmann) Date: Wed Mar 20 11:15:01 2002 Subject: Reading data from COM ports Message-ID: <10F85FB0AADBD511880F004854133BC8012EE4@HAWK> Hi Rob, Uli answerd very quickly but he could not help me. The canceled the project because of financial reasons :-( Again: thanks! Olaf > From: Rob Cozens [mailto:rcozens at pon.net] > Sent: Wednesday, March 20, 2002 4:24 PM > > >thanks for the advice! I will try to contact Uli Kusterer > and tell you what > >happened. Though this Chopra-thing is quite a mystery to me :-) > > Olaf, > > Do let me know if you hear from Uli. I think you will enjoy > corresponding with him and find him very helpful. > > The Chopra reference is just a follow on to a lengthy philosophical > discussion Uli & I had a few years ago. (The FreeCard List seemed to > get around to talking about altruism vs egoism every few months.) > -- > > Rob Cozens > CCW, Serendipity Software Company > http://www.oenolog.com/who.htm > > "And I, which was two fooles, do so grow three; > Who are a little wise, the best fooles bee." > > from "The Triple Foole" by John Donne (1572-1631) > _______________________________________________ > use-revolution mailing list > use-revolution at lists.runrev.com > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution > From scott at tactilemedia.com Wed Mar 20 13:47:01 2002 From: scott at tactilemedia.com (Scott Rossi) Date: Wed Mar 20 13:47:01 2002 Subject: Transparency In-Reply-To: <200203201057.FAA23314@zealous.cnchost.com> Message-ID: On Tuesday, March 19, 2002, at 03:15 PM, Bill Vlahos wrote: > It looks like you can make object, including fields, transparent. In > fact it looks like you can do it three ways on the Mac. Two are for all > platforms and one is Mac only. Two are both set in the ink propery and > the other is simply the opaque property. > > Generic: notScrXor > > Mac only: transparent > > My question is can any of these be set for %transparency? This comes > from examples in Mac OS X using the Quartz graphics engine. You can easily fake this by setting the field's fill to none and placing an image object behind the field with whatever translucency you want. Regards, Scott Rossi Creative Director, Tactile Media scott at tactilemedia.com http://www.tactilemedia.com From dsc at swcp.com Wed Mar 20 14:07:01 2002 From: dsc at swcp.com (Dar Scott) Date: Wed Mar 20 14:07:01 2002 Subject: a tip for newbies (like me) In-Reply-To: <006101c1d01b$e9ba9c60$d86600d8@s1> Message-ID: <025130E8-3C35-11D6-B7FB-0050E4C0B205@swcp.com> On Wednesday, March 20, 2002, at 07:31 AM, BCE wrote: > The RIGHT method: (at least for me, on windows) > > on mouseup > ask file "What file?" > put ("file:" & it) into field "myField" > end mouseup > > Notice the parentheses in the second line --- they make the difference. > Otherwise, just the name of the file is put into the field, and not the > contents Aaaaaiiiii!! The more I learn the less I know. I thought, from the dictionary, that parentheses were just for grouping. Moreover, I thought "file:" was just for URL. I have to rethink how I think commands are executed. Dar Scott From jean-pierre.soto at wanadoo.fr Wed Mar 20 14:11:00 2002 From: jean-pierre.soto at wanadoo.fr (Jean-Pierre Soto) Date: Wed Mar 20 14:11:00 2002 Subject: Transparent icon Message-ID: <3c98daee3d5f1eb9@mel-rta10.wanadoo.fr> (added by mel-rta10.wanadoo.fr) How can I get transparent icon on Windows Computer like on a MacOs system ( white pixel turn to transparent ) ? I tried to use MaskData property but something doesn?t works, and I don?t understand why. How can I do? Is there another way to do it? I am a new user of Revolution, if anyone can help me... thanks! Jean-Pierre Soto -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From rcozens at pon.net Wed Mar 20 14:39:01 2002 From: rcozens at pon.net (Rob Cozens) Date: Wed Mar 20 14:39:01 2002 Subject: Am I the only one? (wasRe: Something strange... ) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: >>Personally, I'm waiting for you to beat all the bugs out of socket >>connections before I ever go there, Dar. :{`) > >Is that tongue in cheek? The smiley, yes (I have a moustache); the remark, no, Dar. At one point I had decided converting my single-user database logic to multi-user client/server should come before I rewrote my main application. I had planned to use AppleEvents on the Mac side and then see what I had to do to establish program-to-program communications on the other platforms. I've now decided my app can continue using the single-user logic while I take more time, evaluate TCP as an alternative, and see if I can take advantage of your experience when the time comes. -- Rob Cozens CCW, Serendipity Software Company http://www.oenolog.com/who.htm "And I, which was two fooles, do so grow three; Who are a little wise, the best fooles bee." from "The Triple Foole" by John Donne (1572-1631) From zelston at aol.com Wed Mar 20 14:42:01 2002 From: zelston at aol.com (Zac Elston) Date: Wed Mar 20 14:42:01 2002 Subject: done and wait In-Reply-To: <200203201703.MAA11800@www.runrev.com> Message-ID: Hi, I've discovered my main problem with visual transitions was a result of relying on preopencard only. Now I hide things in preopencard and show them in opencard. The visuals are now perfect (this is getting really cool!). But now I would like to create some complex presentations to include sound, movement of items on the screen. I can use (any others I am missing?) play show move for my effects, but I can only get the "wait" to work with the "sound is done" how do I manage to do the following? play sound x move a to b wait until sound is done (this works) wait until movestopped show Y visual effect Z wait until visual is done thanks -Zac From mark at bcesouth.com Wed Mar 20 14:48:01 2002 From: mark at bcesouth.com (BCE) Date: Wed Mar 20 14:48:01 2002 Subject: a tip for newbies (like me) References: <025130E8-3C35-11D6-B7FB-0050E4C0B205@swcp.com> Message-ID: <009501c1d047$eacacfe0$d86600d8@s1> > > The RIGHT method: (at least for me, on windows) > > > > on mouseup > > ask file "What file?" > > put ("file:" & it) into field "myField" > > end mouseup > > > > Notice the parentheses in the second line --- they make the difference. > > Otherwise, just the name of the file is put into the field, and not the > > contents > > Aaaaaiiiii!! The more I learn the less I know. > > I thought, from the dictionary, that parentheses were just for > grouping. Moreover, I thought "file:" was just for URL. > > I have to rethink how I think commands are executed. > > Dar Scott Me too! I believe it will work with both "put" and "put URL". But the parentheses are apparently the key to using variables there. There is probably another way to do it, but that is the only method I know right now. Mark Paris From dsc at swcp.com Wed Mar 20 14:49:00 2002 From: dsc at swcp.com (Dar Scott) Date: Wed Mar 20 14:49:00 2002 Subject: a tip for newbies (like me) In-Reply-To: <006101c1d01b$e9ba9c60$d86600d8@s1> Message-ID: On Wednesday, March 20, 2002, at 07:31 AM, BCE wrote: > The WRONG method: > > on mouseup > ask file "What file?" > put "file:" & it into field "myField" > end mouseup > > > The RIGHT method: (at least for me, on windows) > > on mouseup > ask file "What file?" > put ("file:" & it) into field "myField" > end mouseup I'm a newbie, too, and I'm wondering. Could there be a bug in Revolution on Windows? Could you have left out URL in the above examples? It seems to me that these would be the same: put "file:" & it into field "myField" put ("file:" & it) into field "myField" And these would be the same: put URL "file:" & it into field "myField" put URL ("file:" & it) into field "myField" The two groups would put different values into the field. If this is not the case, I need help in understanding evaluation in commands. Help! Dar Scott From dsc at swcp.com Wed Mar 20 15:21:01 2002 From: dsc at swcp.com (Dar Scott) Date: Wed Mar 20 15:21:01 2002 Subject: Icons Message-ID: <4AADA9C6-3C3F-11D6-B7FB-0050E4C0B205@swcp.com> I'm a little confused about icons. I know some sort of reference to icons can be in button properties. And I know there is some sort of way to work with icons in the development environment. But... Where are they stored? (Is there some global property? Are there commands to manipulate the icon db? Is there a stack with a special name that contains them? If I use an icon and make a standalone, do I get all icons added to the standalone, or just the one I use?) If I use an image n times and don't want to consume n times the memory for one image, would an icon be the way to go? Can I refer to an icon in an image? Is there another way to share images? Using players in some way? Or are images automatically shared? Dar Scott From JAMES.G.YATES at saic.com Wed Mar 20 15:29:00 2002 From: JAMES.G.YATES at saic.com (Yates, Glen) Date: Wed Mar 20 15:29:00 2002 Subject: a tip for newbies (like me) Message-ID: <33F0B58BF432D211B72200805FEFAAD905A5C4@hun-its-exs01.saic.com> Analyzing this had me thrown, until I realized you were missing 1 key piece of information, your line starting with "put" should really be: put url ("file:" & it) into field "myField" With this you can see that the use of parentheses here is not just a special case but follows the rules for the parsing of all arguments to containers, functions, etc. When you use "put url" it expects a container, so the next item listed is the container it uses, in the example without parens that would be: put url "file:" & it into field "myField" So in this case the container for put url is only "file:", which since it probably doesn't point to an actual file returns an empty string, which then gets concatenated with "it" and put into the field. When parens are used however: put url ("file:" & it) into field "myField" The parens force the concatenation of "file:" & it to occur before being evaluated as a container of type "url", so now that container evaluates to a file that actually exists and its contents get put into the field. ...LATE BREAKING NEWS... Received more messages in this thread while typing this message: (from another message) >Me too! I believe it will work with both "put" and "put URL". But the >parentheses are apparently the key to using variables there. There is >probably another way to do it, but that is the only method I know right now. >And in response to these messages, no you cannot leave out "url" in this >construct and expect the contents of the file to be put into your field No, you must use "put url" if your objective is to put the contents of the file into the field. Otherwise you would have to do an "open file" to get at the file contents. Also one more point, the "ask file" below should really be: answer file "What file?" As, "ask file" is for saving files, and "answer file" is for locating/opening them. -Glen Yates BCE wrote: > The RIGHT method: (at least for me, on windows) > > on mouseup > ask file "What file?" > put ("file:" & it) into field "myField" > end mouseup > > Notice the parentheses in the second line --- they make the > difference. > Otherwise, just the name of the file is put into the field, > and not the > contents, and a lot of hair pulling occurs. Apparently if you're > concantenating a variable and some text into the name of a > file, this needs > to be done. From k_major at osnabrueck.netsurf.de Wed Mar 20 15:31:01 2002 From: k_major at osnabrueck.netsurf.de (Klaus Major) Date: Wed Mar 20 15:31:01 2002 Subject: done and wait In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <0500DBB6-3C41-11D6-BF43-000A27B49A96@osnabrueck.netsurf.de> HI Zac, > Hi, > > I've discovered my main problem with visual transitions was a result of > relying on preopencard only. Now I hide things in preopencard and show > them > in opencard. The visuals are now perfect (this is getting really > cool!). > But now I would like to create some complex presentations to include > sound, > movement of items on the screen. > > I can use (any others I am missing?) > play > show > move > for my effects, but I can only get the "wait" to work with the "sound is > done" > > how do I manage to do the following? > play sound x > move a to b > wait until sound is done (this works) > wait until movestopped > show Y visual effect Z > wait until visual is done > > > thanks > -Zac from my experience you have to "wait until the visual is done" anyway ;-) Can't remember any case where a script was executed during a visual effect. Regards Klaus Major k_major at osnabrueck.netsurf.de From k_major at osnabrueck.netsurf.de Wed Mar 20 15:35:00 2002 From: k_major at osnabrueck.netsurf.de (Klaus Major) Date: Wed Mar 20 15:35:00 2002 Subject: a tip for newbies (like me) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Hi Dar, > I'm a newbie, too, and I'm wondering. Could there be a bug in > Revolution on Windows? Could you have left out URL in the above > examples? > > It seems to me that these would be the same: > put "file:" & it into field "myField" > put ("file:" & it) into field "myField" Since this is not the "official" syntax, i cannot say what going on here ;-) > And these would be the same: > put URL "file:" & it into field "myField" > put URL ("file:" & it) into field "myField" The "url" syntax is the "official" one ;-) The keyword "url" exspects 1 (one) string as an argument. So you have to use the brackets for the 2 strings to be concatenated BEFORE the engine processes the keyword and the (single!) argument and delivers the exspected result. > The two groups would put different values into the field. > > If this is not the case, I need help in understanding evaluation in > commands. Help! > > Dar Scott Hope this helps. Best from germany Klaus Major k_major at osnabrueck.netsurf.de From scott at tactilemedia.com Wed Mar 20 15:38:01 2002 From: scott at tactilemedia.com (Scott Rossi) Date: Wed Mar 20 15:38:01 2002 Subject: done and wait In-Reply-To: <0500DBB6-3C41-11D6-BF43-000A27B49A96@osnabrueck.netsurf.de> Message-ID: <14FE94F4-3C42-11D6-8F36-0003934902A2@tactilemedia.com> On Wednesday, March 20, 2002, at 12:28 PM, Klaus Major wrote: >> I would like to create some complex presentations to include sound, >> movement of items on the screen. >> ... >> I can only get the "wait" to work with the "sound is done" >> ... >> how do I manage to do the following? >> ... >> wait until movestopped >> show Y visual effect Z >> wait until visual is done visual effect Z with sound "mySound.wav" Regards, Scott Rossi Creative Director, Tactile Media scott at tactilemedia.com http://www.tactilemedia.com From dsc at swcp.com Wed Mar 20 15:40:01 2002 From: dsc at swcp.com (Dar Scott) Date: Wed Mar 20 15:40:01 2002 Subject: assign by reference (arrays)? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <0E60B416-3C42-11D6-B7FB-0050E4C0B205@swcp.com> On Wednesday, March 20, 2002, at 07:05 AM, Ben Rubinstein wrote: > It seems counter-intuitive that I can make a parameter in > subroutine refer > to the same object as a variable in my routine, but I can't make two > variables in my routines do so. I don't have a real solution. Just a couple alternatives: 1. 2D arrays. 2. Put the name and do. Dar Scott From shaosean at unitz.ca Wed Mar 20 15:50:00 2002 From: shaosean at unitz.ca (Shao Sean) Date: Wed Mar 20 15:50:00 2002 Subject: Icons References: <4AADA9C6-3C3F-11D6-B7FB-0050E4C0B205@swcp.com> Message-ID: <00b201c1d050$368288d0$88b15bd1@lanfear> if you're refering to icons as the images on buttons, they're just images.. if you use any of the built-in icons, you will have to make sure that you include them when you "build" your application/file (default is to not include them).. this is okay if you use a lot of the built-in icons, but not very efficient if you just use one or two of them.. if you're just using one or two from the built-in icons, under the "development" menu select "image library", select the icon/image you want and click "insert image into stack".. this will move the image into your stack.. if you have icons/images made from another program, just import them.. icons/images are displayed if they can be found on any of the open stacks (so say the docs) so you have a few different ways of handling how to store them.. 1. place the icons/images on the card to be used on, and turn them invisible 2. create a card in the current stack to hold all of your icons/images 3. create a sub-stack that holds all of your resources, just make sure to "start using" that stack otherwise they won't display ;-) > Or are images automatically shared? if you assign three buttons with the same icon (based on id) then they share that icon (there's only one copy being reference) From dsc at swcp.com Wed Mar 20 15:51:01 2002 From: dsc at swcp.com (Dar Scott) Date: Wed Mar 20 15:51:01 2002 Subject: a tip for newbies (like me) In-Reply-To: <33F0B58BF432D211B72200805FEFAAD905A5C4@hun-its-exs01.saic.com> Message-ID: <9B1DEC54-3C43-11D6-B7FB-0050E4C0B205@swcp.com> On Wednesday, March 20, 2002, at 01:24 PM, Yates, Glen wrote: > When parens are used however: > > put url ("file:" & it) into field "myField" > > The parens force the concatenation of "file:" & it to occur before > being > evaluated as a container of type "url", so now that container > evaluates to a > file that actually exists and its contents get put into the field. I get it!! I was thrown off by the missing URL in the example. The reference expression "url _____" binds stronger than the value expression "_____ & _____". This is now so obvious I can't see how I was so blockheaded. Dar Scott From pixelbird at interisland.net Wed Mar 20 15:54:01 2002 From: pixelbird at interisland.net (Ken Norris (dialup)) Date: Wed Mar 20 15:54:01 2002 Subject: Icons In-Reply-To: <4AADA9C6-3C3F-11D6-B7FB-0050E4C0B205@swcp.com> Message-ID: Hi Dar, I can't answer all of your questions, but icons, in your case, I think, is about files. You can keep the icon (and other) image files you want to use in the same file folder as the stack, and call them as appropriate. You should only need one of each image. HTH, Ken N. From k_major at osnabrueck.netsurf.de Wed Mar 20 15:54:13 2002 From: k_major at osnabrueck.netsurf.de (Klaus Major) Date: Wed Mar 20 15:54:13 2002 Subject: Icons In-Reply-To: <4AADA9C6-3C3F-11D6-B7FB-0050E4C0B205@swcp.com> Message-ID: <770A43A9-3C44-11D6-BF43-000A27B49A96@osnabrueck.netsurf.de> Hi Dar, > I'm a little confused about icons. I know some sort of reference to > icons can be in button properties. And I know there is some sort of > way to work with icons in the development environment. in fact icons ARE images that are displayed inside a button. You can do so by setting the property "Icon" of the button to the id of the image. Check it out: Import an image, note its id, create a button, set its "icon"-property to the noted id, et voila... You might have to adjust the buttons size etc... And you can hide the image now, if you don't need it otherwise. > But... Where are they stored? If you use your own images, they are stored with the stack. > (Is there some global property? Are there commands to manipulate the > icon db? Is there a stack with a special name that contains them? If > I use an icon and make a standalone, do I get all icons added to the > standalone, or just the one I use?) Check the "help" about "Building standalones". You can check to add all rev-icons you use in your buttons to your final standalone. > > If I use an image n times and don't want to consume n times the memory > for one image, would an icon be the way to go? Yes, definitively. You can display one image in 10000 buttons (in the same stack!) The image is loaded into memory just once. > Can I refer to an icon in an image? No, since they are identic. > Is there another way to share images? Using players in some way? No. > Or are images automatically shared? See above... > Dar Scott Hope that helps... Best Klaus Major k_major at osnabrueck.netsurf.de From dsc at swcp.com Wed Mar 20 15:58:00 2002 From: dsc at swcp.com (Dar Scott) Date: Wed Mar 20 15:58:00 2002 Subject: a tip for newbies (like me) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <79498FB4-3C44-11D6-B7FB-0050E4C0B205@swcp.com> On Wednesday, March 20, 2002, at 01:33 PM, Klaus Major wrote: >> >> It seems to me that these would be the same: >> put "file:" & it into field "myField" >> put ("file:" & it) into field "myField" > > Since this is not the "official" syntax, i cannot say what going > on here ;-) > I was meaning Mark's example "wrong" behavior, copying a string with "file:" at the front. My mistake was subconsciously thinking that, of course, the "&" binds stronger than "url". A very dumb mistake. (Years from now people will look at my scripts and ask "Why does he use parentheses so much?") Dar Scott From gcanyon at inspiredlogic.com Wed Mar 20 16:05:01 2002 From: gcanyon at inspiredlogic.com (Geoff Canyon) Date: Wed Mar 20 16:05:01 2002 Subject: (no subject) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: At 12:05 AM +0000 3/20/02, Martin Baxter wrote: >>Yates, Glen Wrote: >> >>If indeed Rev allocates memory from the system >>heap, then to optimize memory usage on a low memory mac, you should decrease >>the applications memory partition from the "Get Info" window. That will >>leave more memory available for the system heap to grow into. >> >>-Glen Yates >> > >That's true enough Glen, however, it is not my idea of a solution. More a >remedy of desperation. >The solution is surely for the application to not do that in the first >place. I can't believe it's really necessary, and it makes your computer >crash. The thing is, on OS X, Unix, and Windows > 95 (98?) an app that needs more memory simply has to ask for it. The system takes care of getting the memory for it, and if it dips into virtual memory, no problem. On Mac OS <=9, there is no way for an application to get more memory than you assign it _in its own partition_. This means that if you assign 2MB to an older Mac application and ask it to do something that requires 3MB, it will either: refuse; die gracefully; die horribly, possibly taking the OS with it. The system heap, on the other hand, is dynamic, and available to other applications. That's why many newer applications -- including Revolution -- allocate memory that way. As others have said, you can change the behavior of the standalones you build. regards, Geoff From scott at tactilemedia.com Wed Mar 20 16:07:01 2002 From: scott at tactilemedia.com (Scott Rossi) Date: Wed Mar 20 16:07:01 2002 Subject: More Fun with mouseMove In-Reply-To: <9B1DEC54-3C43-11D6-B7FB-0050E4C0B205@swcp.com> Message-ID: <28177373-3C46-11D6-8F36-0003934902A2@tactilemedia.com> In the quest for ever more easy/efficient scripts, the following seems to work very well for a custom stack drag routine. Just place this script in a button and you should be off and dragging. on mouseDown set the uAllowDrag of me to true end mouseDown on mouseMove x,y if not the uAllowDrag of me then exit mouseMove put globalLoc(x & "," & y) into tLoc set topLeft of this stack to \ item 1 of tLoc - item 1 of the clickLoc,\ item 2 of tLoc - item 2 of the clickLoc end mouseMove on mouseUp set the uAllowDrag of me to empty end mouseUp on mouseRelease mouseUp end mouseRelease Note: I can't recall if MC Corp wants to eliminate the screenMouseLoc function; if not, then the mouseMove handler could be written with one less line: on mouseMove if not the uAllowDrag of me then exit mouseMove set topLeft of this stack to \ item 1 of the screenMouseLoc - item 1 of the clickLoc,\ item 2 of the screenMouseLoc - item 2 of the clickLoc end mouseMove Regards, Scott Rossi Creative Director, Tactile Media scott at tactilemedia.com http://www.tactilemedia.com From dsc at swcp.com Wed Mar 20 16:19:01 2002 From: dsc at swcp.com (Dar Scott) Date: Wed Mar 20 16:19:01 2002 Subject: Icons In-Reply-To: <00b201c1d050$368288d0$88b15bd1@lanfear> Message-ID: <7445D542-3C47-11D6-B7FB-0050E4C0B205@swcp.com> On Wednesday, March 20, 2002, at 01:45 PM, Shao Sean wrote: > icons/images are displayed if they can be found on any of the open > stacks > (so say the docs) so you have a few different ways of handling how > to store > them.. > > 1. place the icons/images on the card to be used on, and turn them > invisible > > 2. create a card in the current stack to hold all of your icons/images > > 3. create a sub-stack that holds all of your resources, just make > sure to > "start using" that stack otherwise they won't display ;-) > OK. I think I get it. But how do I associate an "Icon ID" or "Icon Name" with an image? (I thought that might be the image id or image name and no "association" is needed; it is already done. But "that can't be right" because that doesn't say what stack. My understanding is that different stacks can have the same id for different objects.) Am I being dense again? Dar Scott From shaosean at unitz.ca Wed Mar 20 16:23:01 2002 From: shaosean at unitz.ca (Shao Sean) Date: Wed Mar 20 16:23:01 2002 Subject: Icons References: <7445D542-3C47-11D6-B7FB-0050E4C0B205@swcp.com> Message-ID: <00f401c1d054$cf5355e0$88b15bd1@lanfear> > But how do I associate an "Icon ID" or "Icon Name" with an image? you can use the "icon picker" in the properties palette, or through scripting set the icon of me to image id 1233 -- icon in the same stack set the icon of me to image "stopIcon" of stack "icons" From dsc at swcp.com Wed Mar 20 16:23:11 2002 From: dsc at swcp.com (Dar Scott) Date: Wed Mar 20 16:23:11 2002 Subject: Icons In-Reply-To: <770A43A9-3C44-11D6-BF43-000A27B49A96@osnabrueck.netsurf.de> Message-ID: <0FE3CE5B-3C48-11D6-B7FB-0050E4C0B205@swcp.com> On Wednesday, March 20, 2002, at 01:53 PM, Klaus Major wrote: > Import an image, note its id, create a button, set its > "icon"-property to the noted id, et voila... I had guessed this (see crossed mail), but wondered about refering to images on other stacks and substacks. Dar Scott From shaosean at unitz.ca Wed Mar 20 16:32:01 2002 From: shaosean at unitz.ca (Shao Sean) Date: Wed Mar 20 16:32:01 2002 Subject: Icons References: <0FE3CE5B-3C48-11D6-B7FB-0050E4C0B205@swcp.com> Message-ID: <010001c1d056$1278b530$88b15bd1@lanfear> > to images on other stacks and substacks. if it's in another stack completely, you'll need to "start using" that stack and then just reference the icon if it's in a sub-stack, just reference it.. example: stack a - has one button substack b - has two images id 1001, 1002 get properties on the button in stack a and set it's icon to 1001 and that icon will appear.. From mark at bcesouth.com Wed Mar 20 16:45:00 2002 From: mark at bcesouth.com (BCE) Date: Wed Mar 20 16:45:00 2002 Subject: a tip for newbies (like me) part 3, Return of the Newbie References: <33F0B58BF432D211B72200805FEFAAD905A5C4@hun-its-exs01.saic.com> Message-ID: <003001c1d058$50df5e80$c3423942@nc.rr.com> Glen, Yikes! You are absolutely right!!! And thanks for pointing out my "ask" typo --- that is actually "answer" in my script, I just screwed it all up when I went to type the email. And it definitely needs to be "put URL". I stand completely corrected. My tip for newbies has caused havoc --- lol. Dar, thanks for your comments too. Okay, I'll be more careful the next time I put a tip in! Mark Paris ----- Original Message ----- From: "Yates, Glen" To: Sent: Wednesday, March 20, 2002 3:24 PM Subject: RE: a tip for newbies (like me) > Analyzing this had me thrown, until I realized you were missing 1 key piece > of information, your line starting with "put" should really be: > > put url ("file:" & it) into field "myField" > > With this you can see that the use of parentheses here is not just a special > case but follows the rules for the parsing of all arguments to containers, > functions, etc. > > When you use "put url" it expects a container, so the next item listed is > the container it uses, in the example without parens that would be: > > put url "file:" & it into field "myField" > > So in this case the container for put url is only "file:", which since it > probably doesn't point to an actual file returns an empty string, which then > gets concatenated with "it" and put into the field. > > When parens are used however: > > put url ("file:" & it) into field "myField" > > The parens force the concatenation of "file:" & it to occur before being > evaluated as a container of type "url", so now that container evaluates to a > file that actually exists and its contents get put into the field. > > ...LATE BREAKING NEWS... > Received more messages in this thread while typing this message: > > (from another message) > >Me too! I believe it will work with both "put" and "put URL". But the > >parentheses are apparently the key to using variables there. There is > >probably another way to do it, but that is the only method I know right > now. > >And in response to these messages, no you cannot leave out "url" in this > >construct and expect the contents of the file to be put into your field > > No, you must use "put url" if your objective is to put the contents of the > file into the field. Otherwise you would have to do an "open file" to get at > the file contents. > > Also one more point, the "ask file" below should really be: > > answer file "What file?" > > As, "ask file" is for saving files, and "answer file" is for > locating/opening them. > > -Glen Yates > > BCE wrote: > > The RIGHT method: (at least for me, on windows) > > > > on mouseup > > ask file "What file?" > > put ("file:" & it) into field "myField" > > end mouseup > > > > Notice the parentheses in the second line --- they make the > > difference. > > Otherwise, just the name of the file is put into the field, > > and not the > > contents, and a lot of hair pulling occurs. Apparently if you're > > concantenating a variable and some text into the name of a > > file, this needs > > to be done. > _______________________________________________ > use-revolution mailing list > use-revolution at lists.runrev.com > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution > From diskot123 at juno.com Wed Mar 20 16:54:01 2002 From: diskot123 at juno.com (diskot123 at juno.com) Date: Wed Mar 20 16:54:01 2002 Subject: Replacing placeholders with variables on revdb_execute Message-ID: <20020320.164733.328.1.diskot123@juno.com> >put revdb_execute(idconnessione,q,a,b) into risultato You need to pass variable names (revdb gets the values) for the placeholders. Changing it to put revdb_execute(idconnessione,q,"a","b") into risultato will get it working. You could also do something like put "aa" into myparams[1] put "bb" into myparams[2] put "insert into pwd values(:1,:2)" into q put revdb_execute(idconnessione,q,"myparams") into risultato and it will get the corresponding values from the array. ------------------ While I have the chance let me give you guys a heads up on some new revdb features that didn't quite make it into the docs for the 1.1.1RC: RevDB_Connect The revdb_connect function connects to a MYSQL, Oracle, ODBC, or Valentina database. revdb_connect(databaseType,host,databasename,username,password,[valentina cachesize],[valentinamacserial],[valentinawinserial]) valentinacachesize - Makes Valentina create the database cache. By default it is 3 Mb. The greater the size of your database, the larger the cache should be - assuming there is enough RAM. Set on first valentina connect, ignored on subsequent valentina connection. valentinamacserial- Mac serial number for VXCMD to remove the demo limitations. Set on first valentina connect, ignored on subsequent valentina connection. valentinawinserial - Windows serial number for VXCMD to remove the demo limitations. Set on first valentina connect, ignored on subsequent valentina connection. When connecting to a valentina database the host should be empty and the databasename should be the filepath of the local database. For example put revdb_connect("valentina","","c:\todo\todo.vdb","","","","",mywinserial) For Mac you need to pass a mac styled path as database (param 3) . You can use the revMacfromUnixPath function. Some info on Valentina www.paradigmasoft.com Valentina is a single user database, which is extremely fast, and works cross platform (windows, mac classic, carbon). It should be used for example when you need to distribute a database with your standalone application. Users must license VXCMD (which in effect licenses the valentina engine from paradigmasoft), or else after 10 minutes the valentina database will time out. The advantage to using RevDB over using just VXCMD are 1) You can use the revdb syntax which works for all databases, and execute all common statements (insert, create table, update, delete, ect). 2) Passing and retrieving binary data is supported 3) Binding (insert into emp(recid) values(:1)) is fully supported Some other new revdb functions: revdb_columntypes get revdb_columntypes() returns the field datatypes in the cursor result set in a database use the revdb_columntypes to find the datatype of a field. each item in revdb_columntypes is one of the following: "BIT", "CHAR", "STRING", "WSTRING", "BLOB", "TIMESTAMP", "DATE", "TIME", "DATETIME", "FLOAT", "DOUBLE", "INTEGER", "SMALLINT", "WORD", "BOOLEAN", "LONG" revdb_columnisnull get revdb_columnisnull(cursorid,columnnumber) return whether (true or false) a column is null(not set at all) as opposed to empty(set to ""). revdb_querylist put revdb_querylist(columndelimiter,rowdelimiter,connectionid,sqlstatement,[v alues list]) a conveniance to developers, resolves the query, and returns a list of found records, and closes the cursor. Saves developer from using revdb_query and then looping over found records using revdb_movenext and then closing cursor. Very useful for quickly outputting the results of sql statements to tables. if the columndelimiter, rowdelimiter are left empty they default to tab (for columns) and return for rows. for example put 100 into dontshowthisemployee put revdb_querylist(,,connectionid, "select FirstName, LastName from Person where employeeid <> :1 order by FirstName", "dontshowthisemployee") would return: "AndyFuchs BillMounce EdLeaf" -- Tuviah Snyder tuviah at runrev.com http://www.runrev.com/ Runtime Revolution Limited - Power to the Developer! From dsc at swcp.com Wed Mar 20 17:03:01 2002 From: dsc at swcp.com (Dar Scott) Date: Wed Mar 20 17:03:01 2002 Subject: Icons In-Reply-To: <010001c1d056$1278b530$88b15bd1@lanfear> Message-ID: On Wednesday, March 20, 2002, at 02:27 PM, Shao Sean wrote: > if it's in a sub-stack, just reference it.. example: > stack a - has one button > substack b - has two images id 1001, 1002 > > get properties on the button in stack a and set it's icon to 1001 > and that > icon will appear.. But what if stack a also has an image with id 1001? Or does something happen that makes sure this is not the case? I know standard icon images start at a high number. Maybe this is to avoid this problem. (I am making cool buttons! Thanks Shao, Klaus and Ken!) Dar Scott From Roger.E.Eller at sealedair.com Wed Mar 20 17:23:00 2002 From: Roger.E.Eller at sealedair.com (Roger.E.Eller at sealedair.com) Date: Wed Mar 20 17:23:00 2002 Subject: done and wait Message-ID: > from my experience you have to "wait until the visual is done" anyway ;-) > Can't remember any case where a script was executed during a visual effect. hmmm... And I would like to do just that. I want a small animated gif to play while a script "gets the files" in a folder. The busy cursor is animated I believe, so why can't a gif animate "while" a script runs? Roger Eller From kevin at runrev.com Wed Mar 20 18:31:01 2002 From: kevin at runrev.com (Kevin Miller) Date: Wed Mar 20 18:31:01 2002 Subject: Windows 1.1.1B2/RC1 Message-ID: Following on from my recent post regarding the Mac, Windows is now up at: http://www.runrev.com/revolution/engines11/beta111/revolution.exe Kevin Kevin Miller Runtime Revolution Limited - Power to the Developer! Tel: +44 (0) 870 747 1165. Fax: +44 (0)1639 830 707. From markmac at shaw.ca Wed Mar 20 19:24:01 2002 From: markmac at shaw.ca (Mark MacKenzie) Date: Wed Mar 20 19:24:01 2002 Subject: System and Heap resources was Re: (no subject) References: Message-ID: <002301c1d06e$df1a3060$a39a5518@ss.shawcable.net> Perfect introduction. For multimedia projects which are intense and graphic rich, the amount of resources needed on the user's PC is of concern. Techniques such as switching filenames for images, etc. can be used to keep your "memory overhead" within reasonable limits. But, how do you accurately judge the "project overheads" your software is currently demanding? In programs like iShell, a key command during evaluation runtime launch from within the editor causes a series of numbers to appear at bottom left of the window. They represent various system use and project demands parameters. Typically the current usage of memory, the high use reached so far and the settings for the project initially. Of most interest is the system heap requirements which can be later be amended for the program by using an .ini file. Okay, enough about a foreign programme, I needed to use it as an example. Can we follow system use and project high/low demands within Revolution? If so how do we get the information dynamically and how do we use it to design our Revolution projects for the least system impact to get the best project? Regards Mark ----- Original Message ----- From: "Geoff Canyon" To: Sent: Wednesday, March 20, 2002 3:05 PM Subject: Re: (no subject) snip > > The system heap, on the other hand, is dynamic, and available to other applications. That's why many newer applications -- including Revolution -- allocate memory that way. As others have said, you can change the behaviour of the standalones you build. > > regards, > > Geoff > > _______________________________________________ > use-revolution mailing list > use-revolution at lists.runrev.com > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution From jplam at netrin.com Wed Mar 20 20:08:01 2002 From: jplam at netrin.com (Jim Lambert) Date: Wed Mar 20 20:08:01 2002 Subject: a tip for newbies In-Reply-To: <200203210025.TAA30666@www.runrev.com> Message-ID: And it goes without saying, one should probably check the result of that ANSWER before putting IT into the field. Jim Lambert From jacque at hyperactivesw.com Wed Mar 20 21:47:00 2002 From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay) Date: Wed Mar 20 21:47:00 2002 Subject: Icons References: <200203210025.TAA30666@www.runrev.com> Message-ID: <3C994931.16512A10@hyperactivesw.com> Dar Scott wrote: > But what if stack a also has an image with id 1001? Or does > something happen that makes sure this is not the case? The first image the engine finds with the correctly numbered ID is the one that will be used. In most cases, that is the one on the current card, or in the current stack. If it doesn't exist in any of those places, the engine will look for an image with the right ID in any substacks. If it doesn't exist in any of those, any stacks in use are searched for a matching ID. Images don't need to be stored in the stacks though. They can be referenced from disk by setting any image object to a filename. Then you can use the image object's ID as an icon in the same way as imported images. But in the case of icons, which are usually very small, they are almost always imported directly into the stack, and generally hidden. -- Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com From webmaster at studioalice.se Wed Mar 20 23:32:01 2002 From: webmaster at studioalice.se (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Magnus_von_Br=F6msen?=) Date: Wed Mar 20 23:32:01 2002 Subject: Turn off nav with arrow keys? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <5CB8E396-3C84-11D6-8719-003065CCBD1A@studioalice.se> Great =) Thank You. /magnus On onsdag, mars 20, 2002, at 10:49 , Jeanne A. E. DeVoto wrote: > At 7:18 AM -0800 3/19/2002, Magnus von Br?msen wrote: >> on openCard >> set the navigationsArrow to false >> end openCard >> >> The app is made of 3 stack-files, so I put this script i each >> main-stack. Or...? > > Actually, for a standalone, you can just set this once, in the startup > handler of your main stack script: > > on startup > set the navigationArrows to false > end startup > > As long as nothing else is setting the property, it will be retained > until > you quit the application. No need to set it every time you move from > card > to card. > > -- > Jeanne A. E. DeVoto ~ jeanne at runrev.com > http://www.runrev.com/ > Runtime Revolution Limited - Power to the Developer! > > > _______________________________________________ > use-revolution mailing list > use-revolution at lists.runrev.com > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution > From gwills at ozemail.com.au Thu Mar 21 03:14:01 2002 From: gwills at ozemail.com.au (Greg Wills) Date: Thu Mar 21 03:14:01 2002 Subject: on mouseEnter In-Reply-To: <200203192100.QAA10658@www.runrev.com> References: <200203192100.QAA10658@www.runrev.com> Message-ID: This may be a OS 9.1 issue but I will make comment anyway. I have mentioned before that some odd things have happened since I installed OS 9.1, here is another. "On mouseEnter" works fine with a script in a button in a stack, however when this stack is saved as a (Mac) application the button script is not so cooperative. It will work with a "mouseup" action, or if the cursor is held over the button for a number of seconds the script is them actioned. However if the app is run on another machine (this one is not OS 9.1) it works fine with an immediate response? Greg From michael at GreppyDreppies.com Thu Mar 21 06:24:01 2002 From: michael at GreppyDreppies.com (Michael D Mays) Date: Thu Mar 21 06:24:01 2002 Subject: assign by reference (arrays)? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Ben Rubinstein of benr_mc at cogapp.com wrote the following on 3/20/02 8:05 AM > on 20/3/02 1:16 PM, Jeanne A. E. DeVoto at jeanne at runrev.com wrote: > >> At 4:57 AM -0800 3/20/2002, Ben Rubinstein wrote: >>> Is there any way to assign by reference? >> >> Calling parameters by reference: >> If the name of a parameter variable is preceded with the @ character, that >> parameter's value is a variable name, rather than the value in the >> variable. Changing the parameter variable in the called handler changes the >> value of the variable in the calling handler. > > Right, I get all that. My point is that I can do it in a procedure, but I > can't find a way to do it inline. > >>> I could do something like this >>> (snip) >>> .... provided that 'dostuffto' was declared to take the first parameter by >>> reference. But what if want to do the stuff inline? I tried this: >>> (snip) >>> But this doesn't work >>> (snip) >>> So is there a way to say "put x into y" that means "make 'y' point to the >>> same object as 'x'"??? > > It seems counter-intuitive that I can make a parameter in subroutine refer > to the same object as a variable in my routine, but I can't make two > variables in my routines do so. Why is it counter-intuitive? The variable it always is always a copy. If you were saying get aRegularVariable you wouldn't expect it be a 'reference' to aRegularVariable. Maybe there should be a new command getHandler which would allow the programmer to do what you want. Maybe what you could do is to add an extra index to your array and use your select statements to pick that index. Then you could 'read and write' your data into that subarray. michael From rcozens at pon.net Thu Mar 21 10:21:01 2002 From: rcozens at pon.net (Rob Cozens) Date: Thu Mar 21 10:21:01 2002 Subject: assign by reference (arrays)? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: > >>> Is there any way to assign by reference? > > > > It seems counter-intuitive that I can make a parameter in subroutine refer >> to the same object as a variable in my routine, but I can't make two > > variables in my routines do so. Hi Ben, Pardon a Foole's dumb question; but what are you trying to accomplish? Can you give me an example of how this is done in another programming environment? I think there must be a way to get the desired result; but I don't understand what the desired result is. Just exactly what do you expect an inline assignment by reference do? Do you want two variable names to point to the same value? If two variables always have the same value, why use two when one would do? Looking at it another way, one might say all inline variable assignments ARE by reference: "put x into y" replaces the value of "y", not a copy of "y". -- Rob Cozens CCW, Serendipity Software Company http://www.oenolog.com/who.htm "And I, which was two fooles, do so grow three; Who are a little wise, the best fooles bee." from "The Triple Foole" by John Donne (1572-1631) From giulio at cantoberon.it Thu Mar 21 10:47:01 2002 From: giulio at cantoberon.it (Giulio Mastrosanti) Date: Thu Mar 21 10:47:01 2002 Subject: assign by reference (arrays)? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: > > Hi Ben, > > Pardon a Foole's dumb question; but what are you trying to > accomplish? Can you give me an example of how this is done in > another programming environment? > I believe Ben is thinking about variable variables, I would find it useful too(a feature request...) for example, on php programming, you can have a variable: $variable = 10; You put the name of a variable into another variable: $variablename = "$variable1"; An operation like: $$variablename++; Will increment the value contained into $variable1 The $$ sign specifies the operation must be performed on the variable whose name is contained into $variablename Hope this was clear.. I'm sure not!!! Giulio From rjb at rz.uni-potsdam.de Thu Mar 21 11:18:01 2002 From: rjb at rz.uni-potsdam.de (Robert Brenstein) Date: Thu Mar 21 11:18:01 2002 Subject: assign by reference (arrays)? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: > > >> Hi Ben, >> >> Pardon a Foole's dumb question; but what are you trying to >> accomplish? Can you give me an example of how this is done in >> another programming environment? >> > >I believe Ben is thinking about variable variables, I would find it useful >too(a feature request...) > >for example, on php programming, you can have a variable: > >$variable = 10; > >You put the name of a variable into another variable: > >$variablename = "$variable1"; > >An operation like: > >$$variablename++; > >Will increment the value contained into $variable1 > >The $$ sign specifies the operation must be performed on the variable whose >name is contained into $variablename > >Hope this was clear.. I'm sure not!!! > > Giulio You can do it with the "do" command. put "add 1 to" into add1 put "variable1" into variablename do (add1 && variablename) Robert From benr_mc at cogapp.com Thu Mar 21 11:54:01 2002 From: benr_mc at cogapp.com (Ben Rubinstein) Date: Thu Mar 21 11:54:01 2002 Subject: assign by reference (arrays)? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: I'm starting to regret this message... it's certainly not the end of the world, and I'll withdraw the term counter-intuitive. But I just wanted to know if this facility was available. Here - with the clear understanding that I agree that there are other ways to skin this cat - is what I was on about. Let's say that I'm processing messages to the use-revolution and improve-revolution mailing lists. For each one I want to find out how many replies were received. So my code might look like this: on doit msgdata put empty into aUseInfo put empty into aImproveInfo repeat for each line msgrec in msgdata put item 1 of msgrec into msgID put item 2 of msgrec into msgReplyID put item 3 of msgrec into msgList switch msgList case "use" noteInfo(aUseInfo, msgID, msgReplyToID) break case "improve" noteInfo(aImproveInfo, msgID, msgReplyToID) break end switch end repeat end doit on noteInfo @aInfo, mID, rID get aInfo[rID] if it = empty then put 1 && mID into aInfo[rID] else add 1 to word 1 of it put it && mID into aInfo[rID] end if end noteInfo This works fine, because I can pass the actual array into the 'noteInfo' handler, by virtue of declaring the first parameter by reference. But suppose for some reason I don't want to use a separate handler - perhaps because the code isn't as simple as shown in the 'noteInfo' handler here, and needs to refer to lots of locals declared in 'doit' , for example? My first attempt was the equivalent of on doit msgdata put empty into aUseInfo put empty into aImproveInfo repeat for each line msgrec in msgdata put item 1 of msgrec into msgID put item 2 of msgrec into msgReplyID put item 3 of msgrec into msgList switch msgList case "use" put aUseInfo into aInfo break case "improve" put aImproveInfo into aInfo break end switch get aInfo[rID] if it = empty then put 1 && mID into aInfo[rID] else add 1 to word 1 of it put it && mID into aInfo[rID] end if end repeat end doit But that doesn't work, because 'aInfo' is each time a fresh copy of either the 'aUseInfo' array, or the 'aImproveInfo' array. So I was just asking if there was some way to make aInfo point to the actuall array, rather than a copy of it. If there isn't, that's fine. As various people have pointed out (thanks to all who did), there are a number of alternatives, such as putting the name of the relevant variable into 'aInfo' and using "do", or using a single multi-dimensional array in the first place. So that's OK then. ! Ben Rubinstein | Email: benr_mc at cogapp.com Cognitive Applications Ltd | Phone: +44 (0)1273-821600 http://www.cogapp.com | Fax : +44 (0)1273-728866 From rcozens at pon.net Thu Mar 21 13:25:01 2002 From: rcozens at pon.net (Rob Cozens) Date: Thu Mar 21 13:25:01 2002 Subject: Halfway through Mac Classic 1.1.1 Tutorials In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Kevin, et al: I've completed the first three 1.1.1 tutorials, and I'm much impressed by what I see. When I started with 1.1, I skipped several tutorials because I didn't see that I would need the capabilities they provide in the short term. I now think that was a mistake, and would advise everyone to complete every tutorial. I'm sure it will help shorten your learning curve and increase your comprehension as it has for me. I have two issues to report from my experience so far: 1. Often when trying to copy scripts from the tutorial to the script editor, option-drag to select the text causes the object containing the script to be deselected, which minimizes the script editor window. This also happened when I accidently pressed the command key instead of the option key. Once I reselect the object, the script window opens & I can paste the text; but it's disconcerting when it first happens. 2. Animation Tutorial design flaw? A. Create MyAnim as per Tutorial B. Open Hello World C. Click on the Reset Button D. You will not see the text field again unless you change the preOpen handler to reposition the field differently. Two questions: A. Is 2 (above) an indication that an animation will not work properly if the object being moved is not located in the frame 1 starting position when the animation begins? B. How does one create an animation where the object changes size or shape instead of position? -- Rob Cozens CCW, Serendipity Software Company http://www.oenolog.com/who.htm "And I, which was two fooles, do so grow three; Who are a little wise, the best fooles bee." from "The Triple Foole" by John Donne (1572-1631) From dsc at swcp.com Thu Mar 21 14:13:01 2002 From: dsc at swcp.com (Dar Scott) Date: Thu Mar 21 14:13:01 2002 Subject: transparent pixels Message-ID: When I paint on a new image, those places where I don't paint are transparent. How does this work? (I suppose "pretty good" is to be an expected answer.) Does this use a color key? The maskData? The alphaData? An special entry into a color table? Dar Scott From rcozens at pon.net Thu Mar 21 14:27:00 2002 From: rcozens at pon.net (Rob Cozens) Date: Thu Mar 21 14:27:00 2002 Subject: assign by reference (arrays)? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: >My >first attempt was the equivalent of > > > on doit msgdata > put empty into aUseInfo > put empty into aImproveInfo > repeat for each line msgrec in msgdata > put item 1 of msgrec into msgID > put item 2 of msgrec into msgReplyID > put item 3 of msgrec into msgList > switch msgList > case "use" > put aUseInfo into aInfo > break > case "improve" > put aImproveInfo into aInfo > break > end switch > get aInfo[rID] > if it = empty then > put 1 && mID into aInfo[rID] > else > add 1 to word 1 of it > put it && mID into aInfo[rID] > end if > end repeat > end doit > >But that doesn't work, because 'aInfo' is each time a fresh copy of either >the 'aUseInfo' array, or the 'aImproveInfo' array. Try this, Ben, on doit msgdata put empty into aUseInfo put empty into aImproveInfo repeat for each line msgrec in msgdata put item 1 of msgrec into msgID put item 2 of msgrec into msgReplyID put item 3 of msgrec into msgList switch msgList case "use" put aUseInfo into aInfo put true into fromUse break case "improve" put aImproveInfo into aInfo put false into fromUse break end switch get aInfo[msgReplyID] if it = empty then put 1 && msgID into aInfo[msgReplyID] else add 1 to word 1 of it put it && msgID into aInfo[msgReplyID] end if if fromUse then put aInfo into aUseInfo else put aInfo into aImproveInfo end repeat end doit -- Rob Cozens CCW, Serendipity Software Company http://www.oenolog.com/who.htm "And I, which was two fooles, do so grow three; Who are a little wise, the best fooles bee." from "The Triple Foole" by John Donne (1572-1631) From shaosean at unitz.ca Thu Mar 21 15:43:00 2002 From: shaosean at unitz.ca (Shao Sean) Date: Thu Mar 21 15:43:00 2002 Subject: [release] Calendar Object 1.0 for RunRev Message-ID: <002701c1d118$6c33a9f0$88b15bd1@lanfear> a calendar object for use in runrev.. http://dark.unitz.ca/~shaosean/software/calendar/ any problems, questions, suggestions, etc, etc please feel free to email.. i realize that it's not commented, i will have it commented for the next release (when i take care of the rest of the "to-do" list).. From kevin at runrev.com Thu Mar 21 16:07:01 2002 From: kevin at runrev.com (Kevin Miller) Date: Thu Mar 21 16:07:01 2002 Subject: UDP Broadcast (was Re: Program Linking) In-Reply-To: <0C4BE870-3BD7-11D6-982D-0050E4C0B205@swcp.com> Message-ID: On 20/3/02 7:49 am, Dar Scott wrote: >> This was just a chance occurrance, though, because things like this >> are not guaranteed to happen: we still have not received a bug report >> on this issue, and if things are not reported they will often just >> slip through the cracks... > > I would like to do my part in this machinery, especially concerning > features important to me. > > I have seen indications that Revolution bug reports should go to > support at runrev.com and I have seen indications that they should go > to improve-revolution. I somewhat go back and forth depending on > what I read last, but lean toward improve-revolution because I'm > not sure whether I'm doing something dumb or for some other reason > a discussion would help. Maybe I should send them to > improve-revolution and then based on discussion send them on to > support. I'm willing to do what I can to help people confirm a > bug. What is the right way to report bugs, Runtime Revolution? > > I think I should look at the MC Starter Kit, too. If there is a > mechanism for MC Starter Kit users to report bugs, then I might do > that (if appropriate). Bugs posted to improve-revolution or to support at runrev.com will not be missed. Bugs posted to use-revolution get processed if we have time, usually we do not, at least it delays them by some time. The only advantage to using support at runrev.com is that if you are a pro user you can use the subject line included in your pro sign up letter to get a quick reply. Improve-revolution allows for discussion with others. This system is going to be changed slightly with more clearly defined bug reporting methods for pro / other users. Kind regards, Kevin Kevin Miller Runtime Revolution Limited - Power to the Developer! Tel: +44 (0) 870 747 1165. Fax: +44 (0)1639 830 707. From kevin at runrev.com Thu Mar 21 16:20:01 2002 From: kevin at runrev.com (Kevin Miller) Date: Thu Mar 21 16:20:01 2002 Subject: Externals/Plug-in newbie question In-Reply-To: <30C8F41C-3698-11D6-9088-0030656F9B60@awana.org> Message-ID: On 13/3/02 3:37 pm, Judi Smith wrote: > Big question, where do I find out about hooking up external code? I > couldn't find any references to that topic in Help or on the web site. There is a folder within the Revolution distribution called "Externals Tutorial". Kevin Kevin Miller Runtime Revolution Limited - Power to the Developer! Tel: +44 (0) 870 747 1165. Fax: +44 (0)1639 830 707. From rcozens at pon.net Thu Mar 21 16:21:01 2002 From: rcozens at pon.net (Rob Cozens) Date: Thu Mar 21 16:21:01 2002 Subject: Persistent Array Designation Message-ID: In the script changes I proposed to Ben > if fromUse then put aInfo into aUseInfo else put aInfo into aImproveInfo This puts a variable with a list of associated keys into a nonKeyed variable (and in other parts of the script, vice versa). I frankly don't know if the index keys are maintained correctly in the process. This brings up several questions: 1. Will the handler maintain the key notation when aInfo is put into aUseInfo and aUseInfo is then put into aInfo? (If not, you could script a workaround using an itemDelimiter instead of array notation...provided you can designate a delimiter character that will NEVER occur in the data you are manipulating AND you can live with the overhead of a delimiter for every possible item. The later because put x into item 20000 of y will place 19,999 itemDelimiter characters before x if y is empty.) 2. Is the key list maintained separately from the arrayed variable (as opposed to maintaining the variable as a delimited list)? 3. If we're dealing with a delimited list in actuality, is there potential conflict between the delimiter used by the MetaCard engine and some character I might choose as my own delimiter? -- Rob Cozens CCW, Serendipity Software Company http://www.oenolog.com/who.htm "And I, which was two fooles, do so grow three; Who are a little wise, the best fooles bee." from "The Triple Foole" by John Donne (1572-1631) _______________________________________________ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution at lists.runrev.com http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution -- Rob Cozens CCW, Serendipity Software Company http://www.oenolog.com/who.htm "And I, which was two fooles, do so grow three; Who are a little wise, the best fooles bee." from "The Triple Foole" by John Donne (1572-1631) From kevin at runrev.com Thu Mar 21 16:24:01 2002 From: kevin at runrev.com (Kevin Miller) Date: Thu Mar 21 16:24:01 2002 Subject: ftp In-Reply-To: <003101c1caa5$78b49640$d86600d8@s1> Message-ID: On 13/3/02 3:40 pm, BCE wrote: > I'm new to revolution, and am really liking it. I'm having some interesting > ftp issues, wondering if anyone could shed some light for me. I'm sending a > file (tried both a text and an image file, the image file is what I really > want to use, though) to a server. I'm trying it on 3 servers, 2 windows and 1 > linux. On one windows server, everything works great. I can even export an > image straight to ftp. However, both the other windows server and the linux > server are not cooperating as nicely. The best I can do is get the door open > and upload something (the filename shows up on the server, but it's an empty > file) unuseable. It also seems to lock up for a while when trying to upload > to the questionable servers. > > Here's a sample line of what I'm trying (tried in both 1.1 and 1.1.1): > > put url "file:C:\windows\desktop\whatever.gif" into url You need to use the / character in the file name. Revolution uses this on all platforms. Kevin Kevin Miller Runtime Revolution Limited - Power to the Developer! Tel: +44 (0) 870 747 1165. Fax: +44 (0)1639 830 707. From kevin at runrev.com Thu Mar 21 16:28:01 2002 From: kevin at runrev.com (Kevin Miller) Date: Thu Mar 21 16:28:01 2002 Subject: stopping shutdown on Mac OS 9 In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On 14/3/02 3:08 am, Brad Allen wrote: > I'm building a Rev standalone for Mac OS 9 PPC which I'd like to put > in the Shutdown Items of Mac OS 9 and have it run before the computer > shuts down. What happens, however, is that my standalone gets > launched and then immediately quits as the OS tries to shut down all > running apps. > > How can I get my standalone to protest the shutdown, as do other apps > that happen to have open unsaved documents? (I tried throwing up a > modal dialog, but that didn't stop the shutdown.) I think you probably can intercept the appleEvent message and block the shutdown from there. Kevin Kevin Miller Runtime Revolution Limited - Power to the Developer! Tel: +44 (0) 870 747 1165. Fax: +44 (0)1639 830 707. From prodevm at yahoo.com Thu Mar 21 16:34:07 2002 From: prodevm at yahoo.com (Steve L) Date: Thu Mar 21 16:34:07 2002 Subject: Use "find" on an active/focused window Message-ID: <20020321213226.92008.qmail@web20307.mail.yahoo.com> Hello all, Let's say I was on the internet and had a page/window open, and I wanted to open a Run-Rev made program and have it use the "find" command on the open/active window. How would you get the "find" command in standalone Run-Rev program to focus on the active internet window to perform a search/find. Thanks Steve __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Movies - coverage of the 74th Academy Awards? http://movies.yahoo.com/ From kevin at runrev.com Thu Mar 21 16:35:01 2002 From: kevin at runrev.com (Kevin Miller) Date: Thu Mar 21 16:35:01 2002 Subject: Insertion Point In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On 14/3/02 11:04 pm, Pierre Delain wrote: > I have a stack with about twenty fields. In two of them (forming a group), > the insertion bar does not appear when I click (of course the fields are not > locked). I don't understand what happens, I search for a while and finally I > discover that if I ungroup those two fields the insertion bar normally > reappears. If I group them again, the bar re-becomes invisible... > > How can this strange phenomenon be explained and avoided? Is something layered on top of the group? Does the group have its "Can receive focus" set to true? Kevin Kevin Miller Runtime Revolution Limited - Power to the Developer! Tel: +44 (0) 870 747 1165. Fax: +44 (0)1639 830 707. From pixelbird at interisland.net Thu Mar 21 17:55:01 2002 From: pixelbird at interisland.net (Ken Norris) Date: Thu Mar 21 17:55:01 2002 Subject: Use "find" on an active/focused window Message-ID: <200203212254.RAA26972@www.runrev.com> >Subject: Use "find" on an active/focused window >Sent: 3/23/20 10:53 AM >Received: 3/21/02 2:29 PM >From: Steve L, prodevm at yahoo.com >Reply-To: use-revolution at lists.runrev.com >To: use-revolution at lists.runrev.com > >Hello all, > > >Let's say I was on the internet and had a page/window >open, and I wanted to open a Run-Rev made program and >have it use the "find" command on the open/active >window. How would you get the "find" command in >standalone Run-Rev program to focus on the active >internet window to perform a search/find. ---------- I'd certainly be interested in the answer to this as well. I want to make my virtual keyboard available for use in a browser some day. Best regards, Ken N. From pixelbird at interisland.net Thu Mar 21 18:47:01 2002 From: pixelbird at interisland.net (Ken Norris) Date: Thu Mar 21 18:47:01 2002 Subject: transparent pixels Message-ID: <200203212346.SAA28346@www.runrev.com> >When I paint on a new image, those places where I don't paint are >transparent. > >How does this work? > >(I suppose "pretty good" is to be an expected answer.) > >Does this use a color key? The maskData? The alphaData? An >special entry into a color table? ---------- Hi Dar, What exactly do you want to do? Fill with a transparent color? Checkout the Ink commands. Best regards, Ken N. From dsc at swcp.com Thu Mar 21 21:16:01 2002 From: dsc at swcp.com (Dar Scott) Date: Thu Mar 21 21:16:01 2002 Subject: transparent pixels In-Reply-To: <200203212346.SAA28346@www.runrev.com> Message-ID: <1436FB66-3D3A-11D6-9BE2-0050E4C0B205@swcp.com> On Thursday, March 21, 2002, at 04:48 PM, Ken Norris wrote: >> When I paint on a new image, those places where I don't paint are >> transparent. >> >> How does this work? ... >> Does this use a color key? The maskData? The alphaData? An >> special entry into a color table? ... > What exactly do you want to do? Fill with a transparent color? Checkout > the Ink commands. Mostly, I'm running wild in the candy store. Here is something specific. I don't have anything better than AppleWorks for paint. I noticed that in Revolution I can scale images by dragging. But if I make them smaller they get a halo about them when they are over color. It seems the edges are softened to white rather than transparent. And... Scaling doesn't seem to lose information. If I make my images big and then scale them smaller, do I still use all the memory of a big image? So... I thought that I'd make a little editor that softens edges with transparent when scaled down. (If something already does this, it is OK to tell me.) To make it easier, scaling is 1/2, 1/3, or 1/4 and a new image is created. Later, I might want to make some transparent highlights such as LED glare. This is just to get familiar with features and other aspects of Revolution; this is no critical project. Dar Scott From pixelbird at interisland.net Fri Mar 22 01:19:01 2002 From: pixelbird at interisland.net (Ken Norris) Date: Fri Mar 22 01:19:01 2002 Subject: transparent pixels Message-ID: <200203220618.BAA00416@www.runrev.com> >Mostly, I'm running wild in the candy store. ---------- Lucky you. ---------- >Later, I might want to >make some transparent highlights such as LED glare. ---------- I did this in HyperCard's Color Tools. Did a pixel-by-pixel touch up. Looks darned real. In fact, I'm still working on that project, but I hope to have my own time in Rev's "candy store" soon. Best regards, Ken N. From benr_mc at cogapp.com Fri Mar 22 04:43:01 2002 From: benr_mc at cogapp.com (Ben Rubinstein) Date: Fri Mar 22 04:43:01 2002 Subject: assign by reference (arrays)? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: on 21/3/02 7:26 PM, Rob Cozens at rcozens at pon.net wrote: > if fromUse then put aInfo into aUseInfo else put aInfo into > aImproveInfo That would also work - but in my real application, the arrays get pretty large, so I don't really want to be copying them twice every time round a 50,000 iteration loop. Anyway, I think we've agreed that there are a lot of workarounds, so I'm not complaining (this wasn't a message to improve-rev) - I was checking in case there was a way to assign by reference, which I'd missed. Ben Rubinstein | Email: benr_mc at cogapp.com Cognitive Applications Ltd | Phone: +44 (0)1273-821600 http://www.cogapp.com | Fax : +44 (0)1273-728866 From benr_mc at cogapp.com Fri Mar 22 04:44:00 2002 From: benr_mc at cogapp.com (Ben Rubinstein) Date: Fri Mar 22 04:44:00 2002 Subject: Use "find" on an active/focused window In-Reply-To: <20020321213226.92008.qmail@web20307.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: on 21/3/02 9:32 PM, Steve L at prodevm at yahoo.com wrote: > Let's say I was on the internet and had a page/window > open, and I wanted to open a Run-Rev made program and > have it use the "find" command on the open/active > window. How would you get the "find" command in > standalone Run-Rev program to focus on the active > internet window to perform a search/find. Several questions here. First, I assume that by > on the internet and had a page/window open you mean having a web browser window open? Given this, I am unclear whether you want to invoke the browser's Find facility, or do your own in Rev? In any case it will depend on the browser and platform. On MacOS, most browsers, you can use AppleScript to get either the contents of the front most browser window, or at least the URL. So given that in Rev you can fetch a URL anyway, either way your Rev app should be able to figure out what the browser is displaying, and do a find in it. It's also trivial to focus on the active internet window, if by that you mean bring the browser window to the front. Scripting the browser to use it's own Find mechanism, however, is less likely to be possible - I've certainly not spotted this when scripting IE or iCab. There might be some browsers that support this. On Windows you might be able to do something exotic with COM - or not. Failing all this, you might be able to use hacks like QuickKeys or WinBatch to get Rev to operate the browser's user interface. Whatever you do, I very much doubt if it will be possible to make a general solution - at best you can expect to get something that works for a particular browser on a particular platform. Ben Rubinstein | Email: benr_mc at cogapp.com Cognitive Applications Ltd | Phone: +44 (0)1273-821600 http://www.cogapp.com | Fax : +44 (0)1273-728866 From benr_mc at cogapp.com Fri Mar 22 04:45:15 2002 From: benr_mc at cogapp.com (Ben Rubinstein) Date: Fri Mar 22 04:45:15 2002 Subject: Persistent Array Designation In-Reply-To: Message-ID: on 21/3/02 9:18 PM, Rob Cozens at rcozens at pon.net wrote: > In the script changes I proposed to Ben > >> if fromUse then put aInfo into aUseInfo else put aInfo into aImproveInfo > > This puts a variable with a list of associated keys into a nonKeyed > variable (and in other parts of the script, vice versa). I frankly > don't know if the index keys are maintained correctly in the process. > This brings up several questions: I don't think this is correct; I think it makes a copy of the array object, and puts this copy into the destination variable. I don't think that there is a concept of a 'nonKeyed' variable. > 1. Will the handler maintain the key notation when aInfo is put into > aUseInfo and aUseInfo is then put into aInfo? as above - both variables point at separate array objects. The information (keys and all) is in the array; which variable points at the object is not relevant. > 2. Is the key list maintained separately from the arrayed variable > (as opposed to maintaining the variable as a delimited list)? as above, I think the concept of an 'arrayed variable' is spurious. The value of a variable in Rev is either a string or an array. An array object maintains the data, including keys and values. > 3. If we're dealing with a delimited list in actuality, is there > potential conflict between the delimiter used by the MetaCard engine > and some character I might choose as my own delimiter? Arrays are actually hashtables, not simply delimited lists. I don't believe this problem can arise. Ben Rubinstein | Email: benr_mc at cogapp.com Cognitive Applications Ltd | Phone: +44 (0)1273-821600 http://www.cogapp.com | Fax : +44 (0)1273-728866 From osnut at pacbell.net Fri Mar 22 05:21:00 2002 From: osnut at pacbell.net (Tom Emerson) Date: Fri Mar 22 05:21:00 2002 Subject: assign by reference (arrays)? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <006701c1d18b$a7eef800$cb10fea9@emerson.glendale.ca.net> > -----Original Message----- > From: Rob Cozens > [Ben wrote] > >My first attempt was the equivalent of > > [...] > > switch msgList > > case "use" > > put aUseInfo into aInfo > > break > > case "improve" > > put aImproveInfo into aInfo > > break > > end switch > > get aInfo[rID] > > if it = empty then > > put 1 && mID into aInfo[rID] [...] > >But that doesn't work, because 'aInfo' is each time a fresh > copy of either > >the 'aUseInfo' array, or the 'aImproveInfo' array. I think I understand what Ben is after -- to [vaguely] borrow terminology from other languages, what it appears he wants to do is: case "use" put ADDRESS_OF(aUseInfo) into aInfoPointer ... end switch add 1 to TARGET_OF(aInfoPointer)[rID] [note: I'm COMPLETELY new to this "language" -- while I have a number of other languages under my belt, I'm not entirely sure I want to tackle one where the global variable "it" changes context from line to line... ;) ] Does this "language" support pointer variables [and all the nastiness associated with them] or is this a dead avenue? A bit of a SWAG here, but from another post, it appears that by using the "do" command it's possible to "dereference" a variable so long as you know it's name. If I picked up on the proper usage, it should be something like this: case "use" put "aUseInfo" into aInfo case "improve" put "aImproveInfo" into aInfo end switch put ("add 1 to " & aInfo & "[rID]") into aStatement do (it) [ok, that last line is a cheesy shot at this whole "it" variable business ;) It should either be "do (aStatement)", or simply replace the last "put" with "do" and take out the "into aStatement" part -- i.e., do the whole thing "inline"] > Try this, Ben, > [paraphrased -- please let me know if I'm way off base here...] [...] > switch msgList > case "use" > put -- (i.e., completely copy) aUseInfo into -- a temporary variable called aInfo > put true into fromUse [...] > end switch -- manipulate the copied array > get aInfo[msgReplyID] [...] -- then copy it back to the original > if fromUse then put aInfo into aUseInfo else put aInfo into > aImproveInfo However it appears even you have doubts about this as you brought up a few cases in another post where it sounds like this is a less-than-optimal solution [not even taking into consideration the fact that dereferencing a pointer takes the same number of cycles & memory space regardless of the array being 10 bytes or 10 megabytes in size, OTOH, "copies" of entire arrays...] From pdel at noos.fr Fri Mar 22 07:24:01 2002 From: pdel at noos.fr (Pierre Delain) Date: Fri Mar 22 07:24:01 2002 Subject: Insertion Point In-Reply-To: <200203220944.EAA04337@www.runrev.com> Message-ID: > > On 14/3/02 11:04 pm, Pierre Delain wrote: > >> I have a stack with about twenty fields. In two of them (forming a group), >> the insertion bar does not appear when I click (of course the fields are not >> locked). I don't understand what happens, I search for a while and finally I >> discover that if I ungroup those two fields the insertion bar normally >> reappears. If I group them again, the bar re-becomes invisible... >> >> How can this strange phenomenon be explained and avoided? > > Is something layered on top of the group? Does the group have its "Can > receive focus" set to true? > > Kevin Yes "Can received focus" of the group is set to true. The layer of the group was 4. If asked for the number of layers. The answer was 179. If I set the layer of the group to 180, the insertion bar comes back, but disappears in the fields that are not in the same group. My conclusion is the following : the insertion bar is visible only in the group with the highest layer. This means that if you want to show two fields belonging to different groups with different layers, the insertion bar will lack in one of them, unless you change the layer. Is it correct? Pierre Pierre From michael at GreppyDreppies.com Fri Mar 22 07:56:01 2002 From: michael at GreppyDreppies.com (Michael D Mays) Date: Fri Mar 22 07:56:01 2002 Subject: assign by reference (arrays)? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Rob Cozens of rcozens at pon.net wrote the following on 3/21/02 9:11 AM > Looking at it another way, one might say all inline variable > assignments ARE by reference: "put x into y" replaces the value of > "y", not a copy of "y". If you could say put "cat" into x put a reference of x into y put "dog" into y put x&&y the message box would show dog dog When you say put "cat" into x put x into y put "dog" into y put x&&y the message box would show cat dog and you are coping the value of x and creating a new variable y with a copy of the value of x or you are over writing the exiting value of the variable y with a copy of the value of x. A variable name is a sort of pointer to the actual location in memory where the value of the variable resides. When you create a reference of (to) that variable you don't create another location in memory for the value of the variable, you just create another pointer which points to that one location in memory. variable Memory 'value' x -----> 187920 [cat] / y ----/ When you say put x into y x -----> 187920 [cat] y -----> 563760 [cat] If y is a reference to x, any change to x is a change to y and vice versa: they both represent the same location in memory. irrc:) michael From kevin at runrev.com Fri Mar 22 11:24:01 2002 From: kevin at runrev.com (Kevin Miller) Date: Fri Mar 22 11:24:01 2002 Subject: Use "find" on an active/focused window In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On 22/3/02 9:41 am, Ben Rubinstein wrote: > Given this, I am unclear whether you want to invoke the browser's Find > facility, or do your own in Rev? > > In any case it will depend on the browser and platform. On MacOS, most > browsers, you can use AppleScript to get either the contents of the front > most browser window, or at least the URL. So given that in Rev you can > fetch a URL anyway, either way your Rev app should be able to figure out > what the browser is displaying, and do a find in it. It's also trivial to > focus on the active internet window, if by that you mean bring the browser > window to the front. > > Scripting the browser to use it's own Find mechanism, however, is less > likely to be possible - I've certainly not spotted this when scripting IE or > iCab. There might be some browsers that support this. > > On Windows you might be able to do something exotic with COM - or not. > Failing all this, you might be able to use hacks like QuickKeys or WinBatch > to get Rev to operate the browser's user interface. > > Whatever you do, I very much doubt if it will be possible to make a general > solution - at best you can expect to get something that works for a > particular browser on a particular platform. One other solution to this - and its one we use here - is to download the web page in Revolution then search the content. That?s very easy - just use the URL commands to load the page into a variable, then search the variable. Kevin Kevin Miller Runtime Revolution Limited - Power to the Developer! Tel: +44 (0) 870 747 1165. Fax: +44 (0)1639 830 707. From giulio at cantoberon.it Fri Mar 22 11:27:00 2002 From: giulio at cantoberon.it (Giulio Mastrosanti) Date: Fri Mar 22 11:27:00 2002 Subject: Resizing animated gifs Message-ID: It is not possible to resize an image control containig an animated gif or I am missing something? Cheers Giulio From kevin at runrev.com Fri Mar 22 11:41:01 2002 From: kevin at runrev.com (Kevin Miller) Date: Fri Mar 22 11:41:01 2002 Subject: More Fun with mouseMove In-Reply-To: <28177373-3C46-11D6-8F36-0003934902A2@tactilemedia.com> Message-ID: On 20/3/02 9:05 pm, Scott Rossi wrote: > on mouseMove x,y > if not the uAllowDrag of me then exit mouseMove > put globalLoc(x & "," & y) into tLoc > set topLeft of this stack to \ > item 1 of tLoc - item 1 of the clickLoc,\ > item 2 of tLoc - item 2 of the clickLoc > end mouseMove Note that you can speed this up slightly by storing the clickLoc value in a variable rather than calling the function each time. Kevin Kevin Miller Runtime Revolution Limited - Power to the Developer! Tel: +44 (0) 870 747 1165. Fax: +44 (0)1639 830 707. From Stgecft at aol.com Fri Mar 22 12:13:15 2002 From: Stgecft at aol.com (Stgecft at aol.com) Date: Fri Mar 22 12:13:15 2002 Subject: Greater the but Less than Message-ID: <177.582d931.29ccbd97@aol.com> I'm sure that this is probably very simple to do, but I'm stuck. I have a number, I want to know how I can make the following comparison: if (someNumber) is greater than>1 but less than <100 then doSomthing WithIt end if Randy Kent From JAMES.G.YATES at saic.com Fri Mar 22 12:22:00 2002 From: JAMES.G.YATES at saic.com (Yates, Glen) Date: Fri Mar 22 12:22:00 2002 Subject: Greater the but Less than Message-ID: <33F0B58BF432D211B72200805FEFAAD905A5CA@hun-its-exs01.saic.com> if someNumber > 1 and someNumber < 100 then doSomthing WithIt end if > I'm sure that this is probably very simple to do, but I'm > stuck. I have a > number, I want to know how I can make the following comparison: > > if (someNumber) is greater than>1 but less than <100 > then > doSomthing WithIt > end if > > Randy Kent From pixelbird at interisland.net Fri Mar 22 12:39:01 2002 From: pixelbird at interisland.net (Ken Norris) Date: Fri Mar 22 12:39:01 2002 Subject: Greater the but Less than Message-ID: <200203221738.MAA15087@www.runrev.com> >I'm sure that this is probably very simple to do, but I'm stuck. I have a >number, I want to know how I can make the following comparison: > >if (someNumber) is greater than>1 but less than <100 >then >doSomthing WithIt >end if ---------- on myhandler put 23 into x if x > 1 and x < 100 then beep end if end myhandler Best regards, Ken N. From rcozens at pon.net Fri Mar 22 12:40:33 2002 From: rcozens at pon.net (Rob Cozens) Date: Fri Mar 22 12:40:33 2002 Subject: assign by reference (arrays)? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: > > Looking at it another way, one might say all inline variable >> assignments ARE by reference: "put x into y" replaces the value of >> "y", not a copy of "y". > >If you could say > put "cat" into x > put a reference of x into y > put "dog" into y > put x&&y >the message box would show > dog dog > >When you say > put "cat" into x > put x into y > put "dog" into y > put x&&y >the message box would show > cat dog >and you are coping the value of x and creating a new variable y with a copy >of the value of x or you are over writing the exiting value of the variable >y with a copy of the value of x. Michael, et al: My point was the practical result of "put x into y" is the result one would get if y were passed by reference in a parameter: the value of y changes. In this line, y would be unchanged if "passed by value". -- Rob Cozens CCW, Serendipity Software Company http://www.oenolog.com/who.htm "And I, which was two fooles, do so grow three; Who are a little wise, the best fooles bee." from "The Triple Foole" by John Donne (1572-1631) From pixelbird at interisland.net Fri Mar 22 12:52:01 2002 From: pixelbird at interisland.net (Ken Norris) Date: Fri Mar 22 12:52:01 2002 Subject: assign by reference (arrays)? Message-ID: <200203221751.MAA16013@www.runrev.com> > also work - but in my real application, the arrays get pretty >large, so I don't really want to be copying them twice every time round a >50,000 iteration loop. > >Anyway, I think we've agreed that there are a lot of workarounds, so I'm not >complaining (this wasn't a message to improve-rev) - I was checking in case >there was a way to assign by reference, which I'd missed. ---------- Excuse me if this is way off-base, but why don't you put a variable name among the array items. This way you can do a simple "Find", much easier and faster than other ways of searching the array. Best regards, Ken N. From kray at sonsothunder.com Fri Mar 22 13:22:01 2002 From: kray at sonsothunder.com (Ken Ray) Date: Fri Mar 22 13:22:01 2002 Subject: Greater the but Less than References: <200203221738.MAA15087@www.runrev.com> Message-ID: <009b01c1d1cd$d8143b70$6700a8c0@mckinley.dom> For clarity, I would use parentheses: if (x > 1) and (x < 100) then Just my $0.02, Ken Ray Sons of Thunder Software Email: kray at sonsothunder.com Web site: http://www.sonsothunder.com/ ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ken Norris" To: Sent: Friday, March 22, 2002 11:40 AM Subject: Re: Greater the but Less than > > >I'm sure that this is probably very simple to do, but I'm stuck. I have a > >number, I want to know how I can make the following comparison: > > > >if (someNumber) is greater than>1 but less than <100 > >then > >doSomthing WithIt > >end if > ---------- > on myhandler > put 23 into x > if x > 1 and x < 100 then > beep > end if > end myhandler > > > Best regards, > Ken N. > > _______________________________________________ > use-revolution mailing list > use-revolution at lists.runrev.com > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution > From rcozens at pon.net Fri Mar 22 13:26:01 2002 From: rcozens at pon.net (Rob Cozens) Date: Fri Mar 22 13:26:01 2002 Subject: assign by reference (arrays)? In-Reply-To: <006701c1d18b$a7eef800$cb10fea9@emerson.glendale.ca.net> References: <006701c1d18b$a7eef800$cb10fea9@emerson.glendale.ca.net> Message-ID: >I think I understand what Ben is after -- to [vaguely] borrow terminology >from other languages, what it appears he wants to do is: > > case "use" > put ADDRESS_OF(aUseInfo) into aInfoPointer > ... > end switch > add 1 to TARGET_OF(aInfoPointer)[rID] > >[note: I'm COMPLETELY new to this "language" -- while I have a number of >other languages under my belt, I'm not entirely sure I want to tackle one >where the global variable "it" changes context from line to line... ;) ] >Does this "language" support pointer variables [and all the nastiness >associated with them] or is this a dead avenue? Hi Tom, No, neither Transcript nor any other Xtalk dialect I'm aware of includes syntax for pointers or handles. Some of us would like to see it, at least so far as is necessary to support direct system calls from Transcript. > >A bit of a SWAG here, but from another post, it appears that by using the >"do" command it's possible to "dereference" a variable so long as you know >it's name. If I picked up on the proper usage, it should be something like >this: > When I first started with HyperTalk I was struck by the techniques used by the folks at Apple who scripted the suite of HyperCard stacks to reference objects and variables "on the fly." I thought, why had I never done this in FORTRAN, PL/1, Pascal, or C? Then I realized there was no way to do this in any of those languages because in most the reference was resolved at compile time and even in UCSD Pascal the interpreter didn't support "do". As an aside, not only can you resolve objects & variables at runtime; you also have the capability of writing self-modifying code. Think about the potential of that feature. > > Try this, Ben, >> >[paraphrased -- please let me know if I'm way off base here...] > [...] > >However it appears even you have doubts about this as you brought up a few >cases in another post where it sounds like this is a less-than-optimal >solution [not even taking into consideration the fact that dereferencing a >pointer takes the same number of cycles & memory space regardless of the >array being 10 bytes or 10 megabytes in size, OTOH, "copies" of entire >arrays...] At the time I wrote this I had no experience working with arrays in Xtalk, as they are not supported in HyperTalk. Since then I scripted the following test which convinces me the script should work: on testArray put "Hello" into myArray[20] put "cruel" into myArray[30] put "world" into myArray[25] put "anyString" into myString put myArray into myString put "someThingElse" into myArray put myString into myArray put myArray[20]&&myArray[30]&&myArray[25]&"!" end testArray So in the end it seems to boil down to whether the overhead of calling a separate handler every iteration of the loop is more or less than the overhead of copying the array each time. Yes, I see how using a pointer or handle reference "in line" would give you the best of both worlds, Ben. If you really want this kind of syntax, I suggest you bring it up on the Xtalk List. -- Rob Cozens CCW, Serendipity Software Company http://www.oenolog.com/who.htm "And I, which was two fooles, do so grow three; Who are a little wise, the best fooles bee." from "The Triple Foole" by John Donne (1572-1631) From rcozens at pon.net Fri Mar 22 13:44:01 2002 From: rcozens at pon.net (Rob Cozens) Date: Fri Mar 22 13:44:01 2002 Subject: assign by reference (arrays)? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: One last kick at this dead horse and I'll shut up, Ben, on doit msgdata put empty into aUseInfo put empty into aImproveInfo repeat for each line msgrec in msgdata put item 1 of msgrec into msgID put item 2 of msgrec into msgReplyID put item 3 of msgrec into msgList switch msgList case "use" get aUseInfo[msgReplyID] if it = empty then put 1 && msgID into aUseInfo[msgReplyID] else add 1 to word 1 of it put it && msgID into aUseInfo[msgReplyID] end if break case "improve" get aImproveInfo[msgReplyID] if it = empty then put 1 && msgID into aImproveInfo[msgReplyID] else add 1 to word 1 of it put it && msgID into aImproveInfo[msgReplyID] end if break end switch end repeat end doit -- Rob Cozens CCW, Serendipity Software Company http://www.oenolog.com/who.htm "And I, which was two fooles, do so grow three; Who are a little wise, the best fooles bee." from "The Triple Foole" by John Donne (1572-1631) From dsc at swcp.com Fri Mar 22 14:24:04 2002 From: dsc at swcp.com (Dar Scott) Date: Fri Mar 22 14:24:04 2002 Subject: Help! Title bar of stack under Rev button bar Message-ID: I just dragged a stack under the button bar in OS X. I suppose I can type something in the message to move this back down. But is there a better way? Can I turn off the button bar quickly? It there a way to grab a stack other than by its title bar? Dar From iansummerfield at btconnect.com Fri Mar 22 14:24:15 2002 From: iansummerfield at btconnect.com (Ian Summerfield) Date: Fri Mar 22 14:24:15 2002 Subject: SNMP Traps - can I monitor them? Message-ID: I know that SNMP traps are sent out on Port 162. The question is are they datagrams? Should I be able to do: accept datagram connections on port 162 with message "gotGram" No socket is opened, socketerror doesn't seem to send anything. It seems I'm not allowed to open port 162. I've tried other stuff like: open socket to "192.168.1.50:162" with message gotGram But "gotGram" never gets called. Am I going about this all the wrong way? From dsc at swcp.com Fri Mar 22 14:45:01 2002 From: dsc at swcp.com (Dar Scott) Date: Fri Mar 22 14:45:01 2002 Subject: SNMP Traps - can I monitor them? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Friday, March 22, 2002, at 12:22 PM, Ian Summerfield wrote: > I know that SNMP traps are sent out on Port 162. The question is > are they > datagrams? Should I be able to do: > > accept datagram connections on port 162 with message "gotGram" > > No socket is opened, socketerror doesn't seem to send anything. > It seems > I'm not allowed to open port 162. What do you mean "No socket is opened"? Does 162 show up in openSockets? Could you have another SNMP app running? Try netstat or other tool to see. netstat -? for help netstat -a to list all Dar Scott From k_major at osnabrueck.netsurf.de Fri Mar 22 15:03:01 2002 From: k_major at osnabrueck.netsurf.de (Klaus Major) Date: Fri Mar 22 15:03:01 2002 Subject: Help! Title bar of stack under Rev button bar In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <8B7E24FD-3DCF-11D6-AE45-000A27B49A96@osnabrueck.netsurf.de> HI Dar, > I just dragged a stack under the button bar in OS X. Congratulations ;-) > I suppose I can type something in the message to move this back down. set the loc of stack "xxx" to the screenloc > But is there a better way? Can I turn off the button bar quickly? Type this in the messagebox: hide menubar grab your stack and then: show menubar > It there a way to grab a stack other than by its title bar? Sorry, don't know... > Dar Hope this helps... Regards Klaus Major k_major at osnabrueck.netsurf.de From kray at sonsothunder.com Fri Mar 22 15:03:10 2002 From: kray at sonsothunder.com (Ken Ray) Date: Fri Mar 22 15:03:10 2002 Subject: Help! Title bar of stack under Rev button bar References: Message-ID: <00d501c1d1db$f87bf200$6700a8c0@mckinley.dom> Dar, Type this in to the message box: set the loc of this stack to the screenLoc Assuming it is a toplevel stack, this should work. If it's not (like a palette), you need to type: set the loc of stack to the screenLoc Hope this helps, Ken Ray Sons of Thunder Software Email: kray at sonsothunder.com Web site: http://www.sonsothunder.com/ ----- Original Message ----- From: "Dar Scott" To: Sent: Friday, March 22, 2002 1:19 PM Subject: Help! Title bar of stack under Rev button bar > I just dragged a stack under the button bar in OS X. > > I suppose I can type something in the message to move this back down. > > But is there a better way? Can I turn off the button bar quickly? > It there a way to grab a stack other than by its title bar? > > Dar > > _______________________________________________ > use-revolution mailing list > use-revolution at lists.runrev.com > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution > From dsc at swcp.com Fri Mar 22 15:22:01 2002 From: dsc at swcp.com (Dar Scott) Date: Fri Mar 22 15:22:01 2002 Subject: SNMP Traps - can I monitor them? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Friday, March 22, 2002, at 12:22 PM, Ian Summerfield wrote: > Am I going about this all the wrong way? Ian, you are about to run into a serious limitation of UDP on Revolution, if you continue to explore SNMP. (If I'm wrong about this, I hope somebody will let us know.) Suppose you "open datagram socket" to the SNMP port 161 on your router and "write" an SNMP GET datagram. The underlying system will assign you a port on your computer when you do this. The router will send an SNMP RESPONSE back to that port. You need to get that datagram. But you don't know what port to "accept" on. An alternative would be to read from the socket you opened to write with. I have tried several ways to read datagrams from an open to datetime (port 13) or echo (port 7) with no success. If anybody has been able to do this, I would like to see how its done. And there is no way to set the local port in open. Dar Scott From dsc at swcp.com Fri Mar 22 16:14:01 2002 From: dsc at swcp.com (Dar Scott) Date: Fri Mar 22 16:14:01 2002 Subject: Help! Title bar of stack under Rev button bar In-Reply-To: <8B7E24FD-3DCF-11D6-AE45-000A27B49A96@osnabrueck.netsurf.de> Message-ID: <133FC5BB-3DD9-11D6-AC86-0050E4C0B205@swcp.com> On Friday, March 22, 2002, at 01:01 PM, Klaus Major wrote: >> I just dragged a stack under the button bar in OS X. > > Congratulations ;-) Newbies do the cutest things. >> I suppose I can type something in the message to move this back down. > > set the loc of stack "xxx" to the screenloc Thanks! And to you, Ken! >> But is there a better way? Can I turn off the button bar quickly? > > Type this in the messagebox: > > hide menubar > > grab your stack and then: > > show menubar This is cool! It hides the dock, too! If I can figure out how to install an application as a screen saver on OS X, I could make a screen saver. But this doesn't help this problem. The title bar of the stack ends up under the button bar, not the menu bar. (OS X) Dar Scott From drvaughan55 at mac.com Fri Mar 22 16:38:01 2002 From: drvaughan55 at mac.com (David Vaughan) Date: Fri Mar 22 16:38:01 2002 Subject: assign by reference - a comment In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Hi all I have watched this thread (now pretty much dead) very quietly but the last few posts inspire me to make a general point captured well by Rob in his ironic "...capability of writing self-modifying code. Think about he potential of that feature." That Rev offers you pass-by-reference is nifty, but a general capability to substitute handles for contents for in-line coding is not really what xTalk is about. I recall over twenty years ago rewriting much of a microcomputer OS, (CP/M, BDOS and Morrow's Disk Jockey, for those with beards long enough to have heard) for enormous gains in memory space (I had 64KB in which to squeeze the OS and apps), speed and functionality. Of course, I did this in part by writing "self-aware" and self-modifying code. Later, I squeezed wonderful things out of Pascal on the same box by intelligent resort to in-line assembler where I could manage pointers directly, and then made HyperTalk fly by similar techniques in CompileIt! even when the latter first came out and took 45 minutes to compile one script. This was fun. It was efficient to write and dare I say very elegant in places. I understood what I was doing completely...at the time. But as maintainable code it sucked, while to a reader other than myself it was like something out of the trees. The problem is that you tend not to appreciate the attention and skill you are applying at the time you first write and debug it and even then the latter task rapidly becomes all hell because you frankly have no real idea of to what a variable refers if its contents can be a reference to any other variable. Now, I know it is easy for you, your are expert and you can do it in your sleep. So why aren't you writing C, which was first promoted to micro users because it made these techniques easy to apply? Why is Java popular in the enterprise if it can be summarised as C++ _without_ pointers? xTalk and its MC/RR implementation is, as I continue to learn, marvellously powerful. I too enjoy doing fancy tricks with references and modifiers but a need to do that is exceptional, and should be left, as I have previously supported, to a CompileIt!-like add-on, not stuck in to the current language to confuse and damage the work of the mass of RR users. Wow! I think I had better go quiet again for a while. Please don't beat me. regards to all David On Saturday, March 23, 2002, at 05:23 , Rob Cozens wrote: > > Hi Tom, > > No, neither Transcript nor any other Xtalk dialect I'm aware of > includes syntax for pointers or handles. Some of us would like to see > it, at least so far as is necessary to support direct system calls from > Transcript. > > > As an aside, not only can you resolve objects & variables at runtime; > you also have the capability of writing self-modifying code. Think > about the potential of that feature. > > Yes, I see how using a pointer or handle reference "in line" would give > you the best of both worlds, Ben. If you really want this kind of > syntax, I suggest you bring it up on the Xtalk List. From iansummerfield at btconnect.com Fri Mar 22 17:18:01 2002 From: iansummerfield at btconnect.com (Ian Summerfield) Date: Fri Mar 22 17:18:01 2002 Subject: SNMP Traps - can I monitor them? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: > > What do you mean "No socket is opened"? Does 162 show up in > openSockets? > > Could you have another SNMP app running? Try netstat or other tool > to see. > > netstat -? > for help > > netstat -a > to list all > The opensockets() function shows I have other sockets open, but 162 never gets opened. Also no socketerror message is received, it just doesn't do anything! I'm on OS X on a Mac, I keyed netstat -a into the terminal on OS X and it gave lots of interesting stuff but nothing to indicate my port 162 was open. I'm well out of my depth anyway. I don't think I need to monitor traps any more, I've just noticed my APC UPS sends datagrams every 26 seconds, but if something important happens it sends a datagram immediately...and there's me thinking I'd need to get a TRAP from it. So I can program my whole system just listening to datagrams. My next problem is knowing if I can ping an IP number just to see whether it exists before I try and open a separate communication channel to it? -i- From iansummerfield at btconnect.com Fri Mar 22 17:25:01 2002 From: iansummerfield at btconnect.com (Ian Summerfield) Date: Fri Mar 22 17:25:01 2002 Subject: SNMP Traps - can I monitor them? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On 22/3/02 8:16 pm, "Dar Scott" scribed: > Ian, you are about to run into a serious limitation of UDP on > Revolution, if you continue to explore SNMP. > > (If I'm wrong about this, I hope somebody will let us know.) > > Suppose you "open datagram socket" to the SNMP port 161 on your > router and "write" an SNMP GET datagram. The underlying system > will assign you a port on your computer when you do this. The > router will send an SNMP RESPONSE back to that port. You need to > get that datagram. But you don't know what port to "accept" on. > > An alternative would be to read from the socket you opened to write > with. I have tried several ways to read datagrams from an open to > datetime (port 13) or echo (port 7) with no success. If anybody > has been able to do this, I would like to see how its done. > > And there is no way to set the local port in open. > > Dar Scott > I appreciate your help but I must confess to being out of my depth on this one! I've really only spent a few days trying to get to grips with SNMP! Only hours ago did I learn what a trap is! BUT, I think it all should be possible because there is a METACARD project that does more or less what I want to do, and by the sounds of things what you are trying to do to! http://www.metacard.com/apps4.html Mind you, they might have used externals. From k_major at osnabrueck.netsurf.de Fri Mar 22 17:53:01 2002 From: k_major at osnabrueck.netsurf.de (Klaus Major) Date: Fri Mar 22 17:53:01 2002 Subject: Help! Title bar of stack under Rev button bar In-Reply-To: <133FC5BB-3DD9-11D6-AC86-0050E4C0B205@swcp.com> Message-ID: <5A8E5AEA-3DE7-11D6-AE45-000A27B49A96@osnabrueck.netsurf.de> HI Dar, > This is cool! It hides the dock, too! If I can figure out how to > install an application as a screen saver on OS X, I could make a screen > saver. > > But this doesn't help this problem. The title bar of the stack ends up > under the button bar, not the menu bar. (OS X) look in the menu "Development". There is an item "Suspend RevolutionUI". This will hide all rev windows but a tiny stack to show all back again. Check it out, it might help you. > Dar Scott Regards Klaus Major k_major at osnabrueck.netsurf.de From dsc at swcp.com Fri Mar 22 18:47:00 2002 From: dsc at swcp.com (Dar Scott) Date: Fri Mar 22 18:47:00 2002 Subject: SNMP Traps - can I monitor them? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <7E59A585-3DEE-11D6-AC86-0050E4C0B205@swcp.com> On Friday, March 22, 2002, at 03:15 PM, Ian Summerfield wrote: > The opensockets() function shows I have other sockets open, but > 162 never > gets opened. Also no socketerror message is received, it just > doesn't do > anything! result()? sysError()? It may be that you need certain priv/permissions to accept on a port lower than some value. Somebody who knows unix/darwin/osx better than I would be better to comment. A valid accept seems to put the port into open sockets immediately, so that may be all you need to detect failure. > I'm on OS X on a Mac, I keyed netstat -a into the terminal on OS X > and it > gave lots of interesting stuff but nothing to indicate my port 162 > was open. I was thinking Windows and just lucked out that that it works on OS X. > I'm well out of my depth anyway. Me, too. Fools rush in... > I don't think I need to monitor traps any > more, I've just noticed my APC UPS sends datagrams every 26 > seconds, but if > something important happens it sends a datagram immediately...and > there's me > thinking I'd need to get a TRAP from it. So I can program my > whole system > just listening to datagrams. Cool. > My next problem is knowing if I can ping an IP number just to see > whether it > exists before I try and open a separate communication channel to it? A few devices and computers will not respond to pings, but most do. You can ping from the terminal. Type ping and it will give you help. On Windows, the shell function can be used to ping. The dictionary on my Revolution has OS X crossed out for "shell" and "read from process", but curiously not for "open process". You might be able to run something that leaves a file you can look at. Who knows? You can also try to open a TCP connection to a bogus port and see if the sysError() or other result you get back is different depending on whether there is a system there. If you get something to work I'd like to hear about it. Or you might want to put shell on your wish list and skip pings for now. Dar Scott From dsc at swcp.com Fri Mar 22 19:02:01 2002 From: dsc at swcp.com (Dar Scott) Date: Fri Mar 22 19:02:01 2002 Subject: SNMP Traps - can I monitor them? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <8EBC2D4C-3DF0-11D6-AC86-0050E4C0B205@swcp.com> On Friday, March 22, 2002, at 03:23 PM, Ian Summerfield wrote: > BUT, I think it all should be > possible because there is a METACARD project that does more or > less what I > want to do, and by the sounds of things what you are trying to do to! > > http://www.metacard.com/apps4.html > > Mind you, they might have used externals. Or shell. It runs on Windows and a couple unix's. It does look cool! Dar Scott From dsc at swcp.com Fri Mar 22 19:40:01 2002 From: dsc at swcp.com (Dar Scott) Date: Fri Mar 22 19:40:01 2002 Subject: SNMP Traps - can I monitor them? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Friday, March 22, 2002, at 03:15 PM, Ian Summerfield wrote: > My next problem is knowing if I can ping an IP number just to see > whether it > exists before I try and open a separate communication channel to it? "do" and Network Utility? Gotta run. -- dar From JohnRule at aol.com Sat Mar 23 00:56:01 2002 From: JohnRule at aol.com (JohnRule at aol.com) Date: Sat Mar 23 00:56:01 2002 Subject: Pat on the back Message-ID: <6.2602dc5b.29cd7285@aol.com> > A variable name is a sort of pointer to the actual location in memory where > the value of the variable resides. When you create a reference of (to) that > variable you don't create another location in memory for the value of the > variable, you just create another pointer which points to that one location > in memory. Which reminds me a little heartfelt gratitude is in order to the creators of MetaCard and Revolution for doing all the hard stuff...while we have all the fun! (Well, sometimes the hard stuff can be fun too!). ;-) Thank You!! JR From JohnRule at aol.com Sat Mar 23 01:08:00 2002 From: JohnRule at aol.com (JohnRule at aol.com) Date: Sat Mar 23 01:08:00 2002 Subject: datagrams & sockets Message-ID: <10f.e2544f0.29cd7555@aol.com> > Suppose you "open datagram socket" to the SNMP port 161 on your > router and "write" an SNMP GET datagram. The underlying system > will assign you a port on your computer when you do this. The > router will send an SNMP RESPONSE back to that port. You need to > get that datagram. But you don't know what port to "accept" on. It sounds like your device is not responding (opening a port on it's side, and sending back the socket number it opened). I have been able to do this with any device that is set up to create it's own connection (server mode?). This brings up a question I have had for a while now...can I have multiple ports open on the 'Rev' computer? It seems like it works, but there is quite a bit of contention. In other words, if I have a 'Rev' computer set up as a server (listening on a specific port) how many connections can it serve? Can I set this number? Thanks, JR From dsc at swcp.com Sat Mar 23 02:00:00 2002 From: dsc at swcp.com (Dar Scott) Date: Sat Mar 23 02:00:00 2002 Subject: shell on OS X workaround ( was Re: SNMP Traps) In-Reply-To: <7E59A585-3DEE-11D6-AC86-0050E4C0B205@swcp.com> Message-ID: On Friday, March 22, 2002, at 04:42 PM, Dar Scott wrote: > The dictionary on my Revolution has OS X crossed out for "shell" > and "read from process", but curiously not for "open process". I guess the AppleScript programmers on the list laugh every time I say there is no Revolution shell() function that works on OS X. I know nothing about AppleScript, but with a tiny bit of fooling around I came up with this: function shellSH cmd -- Sorry, no quote marks in cmd in this version -- And shellCommand is ignored put "do shell script" & quote & cmd & quote into s do s as AppleScript put result() into r replace numToChar(13) with linefeed in r return r end shellSH This uses sh and not tcsh that the Terminal program uses. There is probably a way to do this with Terminal, but even those six lines of AppleScript are beyond me until I get a reference. Here is one way to ping, then: function ping ip return shellSH("/sbin/ping -c 1 " & ip) contains "1 packets received" end ping This takes over 10 seconds if the computer is not there. It returns virtually immediately if it is. I tried -w, but it doesn't seem to work. I still hear giggling. Dar Scott From dsc at swcp.com Sat Mar 23 07:20:01 2002 From: dsc at swcp.com (Dar Scott) Date: Sat Mar 23 07:20:01 2002 Subject: datagrams & sockets In-Reply-To: <10f.e2544f0.29cd7555@aol.com> Message-ID: On Friday, March 22, 2002, at 11:06 PM, JohnRule at aol.com wrote: >> Suppose you "open datagram socket" to the SNMP port 161 on your >> router and "write" an SNMP GET datagram. The underlying system >> will assign you a port on your computer when you do this. The >> router will send an SNMP RESPONSE back to that port. You need to >> get that datagram. But you don't know what port to "accept" on. > > It sounds like your device is not responding (opening a port on > it's side, > and sending back the socket number it opened). I set up a packet sniffer. I see a UDP datagram sent to port 13 (datetime) on the remote computer and I see one with the date back from the remote computer. > I have been able to do this > with any device that is set up to create it's own connection > (server mode?). I've done that with TCP, but I haven't figured out a way with UDP. I worked on it some more, but to no avail. I'd like to see how you did that. Dar Scott From steve at messimercomputing.com Sat Mar 23 10:03:01 2002 From: steve at messimercomputing.com (Steve Messimer) Date: Sat Mar 23 10:03:01 2002 Subject: copying objects Message-ID: Hi, I'm working on a plug-in that seeks to create objects in another stack. I have been successful to a degree but several issues have arisen that raise some questions about the best way to accomplish this. Basically I am having the user make changes to a grp and a button that controls the visible property of the group so that once it is created the button shows and hides the group (among other things). The scripting of the objects themselves has been accomplished the question is "What is the best way to create them in the target stack". here are my options as I see it. I can go to the topStack and create a new button assign it the desired properties and script w/o much problem. The group becomes a much more complex issue because it may contain 20 or more sub objects. This would require a lot of coding. The other option is to have the user make changes to the Objects in the plug in then simply copy the Objects to the new stack. At the end of the script use custom properties to return the plug-in objects to some predefined default state. I have been using the following scheme to try to do this without a lot of luck. put the name of btn id "1281" into btnName copy button btnName push card open stack targetStack -- this variable was initialized earlier go to card id targetCard -- this variable was initialized earlier paste btn btnName -- I'll deal w the loc & rect of the object later pop card put the name of grp id "1498" into grpName copy grp grpName push card open stack targetStack -- this variable was initialized earlier go to card id targetCard -- this variable was initialized earlier paste grp grpName --I'll deal w the loc & rect of the object later pop card -- reset btns properties to defaults so they can be used to make other new objects Is it necessary to go to a particular card in the target stack? Presumably, the user will already be on the desired card when the plug-in scripts are executed. Is it possible to copy the Objects one right after the other, like so? copy btn btnName copy group grpName push card open stack targetStack go to card id targetCard paste btn btnName paste grp grpName pop card TopStack Question: Does the topStack designate the mainStack or the stack that is in the currently active window? Thanks Steve Stephen Messimer Messimer Computing From rcozens at pon.net Sat Mar 23 11:15:01 2002 From: rcozens at pon.net (Rob Cozens) Date: Sat Mar 23 11:15:01 2002 Subject: assign by reference - a comment In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: >I have watched this thread (now pretty much dead) very quietly but >the last few posts inspire me to make a general point captured well >by Rob in his ironic "...capability of writing self-modifying code. >Think about the potential of that feature." Hi David, Try as I might, I don't see the irony. Perhaps I'm just too much a foole, or perhaps I'm too excited about the potential to fix errant behavior in a multi-megabyte application by sending out a 100K stack to replace an incorrect script rather than sending a whole new copy of the app itself. -- Rob Cozens CCW, Serendipity Software Company http://www.oenolog.com/who.htm "And I, which was two fooles, do so grow three; Who are a little wise, the best fooles bee." from "The Triple Foole" by John Donne (1572-1631) From rcozens at pon.net Sat Mar 23 12:18:00 2002 From: rcozens at pon.net (Rob Cozens) Date: Sat Mar 23 12:18:00 2002 Subject: assign by reference - a comment In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: >>ironic "...capability of writing self-modifying code. Think about >>the potential of that feature." > >Hi David, > >Try as I might, I don't see the irony. I tried harder, David: If you mean the potential for error, that goes without saying. Give anyone a new tool or new power and you increase the potential ways they can screw up. Pointers, handles, direct system calls, and such are not child's play. But Revolution is not a tool for children. In its first incarnation as HyperTalk, Xtalk was designed to keep these "programming matches" out of the hands of beginners so they couldn't burn themselves; however if professional RR developers are to successfully compete with developers using other development environments, they should not be restrained because adding more features to the environment may cause problems for users lacking the experience to use them correctly. (Of course power for self-modification has been there from HC v1) In 25 years of programming business applications I've never found the need to write self-modifying (in the traditional sense) code; but that doesn't mean I would want someone working in AI to be locked out of RunRev as a development platform in order to keep newbies from shooting themselves in the foot with a weapon they don't understand how to use. It also doesn't mean that some day, after I've mastered all the techniques that are more important to my app that I won't at least experiment with ways of programming it to modify it's behavior based on past experience. FWIW, I think this issue is more likely to arise here than among MetaCard users because, whereas MC was always a tool for professionals (@ one large a pop), RunRev's introductory pricing has attempted to attract HyperCard users who would not consider paying that much for a development tool. Don't get me wrong...I wish very strongly that there were a current programming tool for the "masses" al la HyperCard. That's why I worked on the FreeCard project and helped man the iHUG booth at MacWorld 2001. But I don't think RunRev can be both that tool for the masses AND the world's best professional development platform, bar none. -- Rob Cozens CCW, Serendipity Software Company http://www.oenolog.com/who.htm "And I, which was two fooles, do so grow three; Who are a little wise, the best fooles bee." from "The Triple Foole" by John Donne (1572-1631) From rcozens at pon.net Sat Mar 23 13:01:01 2002 From: rcozens at pon.net (Rob Cozens) Date: Sat Mar 23 13:01:01 2002 Subject: assign by reference - a comment Message-ID: David, et al: A "post send" thought: While I favor support for pointers, handles, etc. that does NOT mean I support their implementation in Xtalk with cryptic @ or @@ syntax al la C. Any support for these features should fit naturally into Xtalk: eg "get the address of someVariable" seems natural for a pointer. Although the simile sucks, "the mailBox" might work well for a handle: "put the mailBox of someVariable into myMailBox" "send data myNewVariable to myMailBox" Rob Cozens CCW, Serendipity Software Company http://www.oenolog.com/who.htm "And I, which was two fooles, do so grow three; Who are a little wise, the best fooles bee." from "The Triple Foole" by John Donne (1572-1631) From dsc at swcp.com Sat Mar 23 13:15:01 2002 From: dsc at swcp.com (Dar Scott) Date: Sat Mar 23 13:15:01 2002 Subject: assign by reference - a comment In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <2EA54E18-3E89-11D6-8560-0050E4C0B205@swcp.com> On Saturday, March 23, 2002, at 10:58 AM, Rob Cozens wrote: > "put the mailBox of someVariable into myMailBox" > "send data myNewVariable to myMailBox" > "forwarder"? Dar From dsc at swcp.com Sat Mar 23 15:41:01 2002 From: dsc at swcp.com (Dar Scott) Date: Sat Mar 23 15:41:01 2002 Subject: Resolution of printed images Message-ID: <9473B172-3E9D-11D6-8BD5-0050E4C0B205@swcp.com> Is there a way to print images at a higher resolution than screen. Dar Scott From drvaughan55 at mac.com Sat Mar 23 16:20:01 2002 From: drvaughan55 at mac.com (David Vaughan) Date: Sat Mar 23 16:20:01 2002 Subject: assign by reference - another comment In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <99F287F6-3EA3-11D6-A3A3-000393598038@mac.com> On Sunday, March 24, 2002, at 04:58 , Rob Cozens wrote: > David, et al: > > A "post send" thought: Rob A couple of thoughts: Your first example of despatching a script to modify an existing stack is not to the point. Of course that is useful but it is utterly doable without resort to handles and pointers or to code which meaningfully modifies itself at runtime. This forum has many examples of people being given scripted ways of doing modifications to multiple instances of objects in their stacks, which is in the same vein, and scripted modification of client apps is a technique I have used in past years when I distributed software. I originally wrote "(I presume)" after the reference to irony but deleted it as I found it difficult to believe you were serious at the time. I understand now that you were and see desirable benefits in coding power. OK. My point, however, had little to do with whether or not we are discussing powerful programming mechanisms. I said they were and was careful to point out my own familiarity and pleasure at using them. However, my day job includes finding out why $MM projects are off the rails and trying to fix them both technically and commercially, and the techniques you are describing are not industrial strength, are not tolerable in enterprise software development. This is the history of the last 20 to 30 years of software development tools. Go ahead and use them for a stack, debug the hell out of it and you will probably have a very sweet application to offer. Just please don't tell me that this is the the way we should present as a standard set of development tools or techniques. This is a philosophical disagreement, not a technical one so for my part I shall let it slide fairly soon. I always appreciate your comments. regards David > Rob Cozens > CCW, Serendipity Software Company > http://www.oenolog.com/who.htm > > "And I, which was two fooles, do so grow three; > Who are a little wise, the best fooles bee." > > from "The Triple Foole" by John Donne (1572-1631) > _______________________________________________ > use-revolution mailing list > use-revolution at lists.runrev.com > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution > From giulio at cantoberon.it Sat Mar 23 17:08:01 2002 From: giulio at cantoberon.it (Giulio Mastrosanti) Date: Sat Mar 23 17:08:01 2002 Subject: Dragging a file on an application window Message-ID: Is it possible to allow a user to drag a file onto the application window or onto one of is controls? Which is the message sent? From dsc at swcp.com Sat Mar 23 18:08:01 2002 From: dsc at swcp.com (Dar Scott) Date: Sat Mar 23 18:08:01 2002 Subject: assign by reference - a comment In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <2B0F068D-3EB2-11D6-8BD5-0050E4C0B205@swcp.com> On Saturday, March 23, 2002, at 10:58 AM, Rob Cozens wrote: > While I favor support for pointers, handles, etc. that does NOT > mean I support their implementation in Xtalk with cryptic @ or @@ > syntax al la C. Any support for these features should fit > naturally into Xtalk: eg "get the address of someVariable" seems > natural for a pointer. How about... put the id of variable oneVariable into pointerToVariable put the "blah blah" into variable ID pointerToVariable Dar From kray at sonsothunder.com Sat Mar 23 18:20:01 2002 From: kray at sonsothunder.com (Ken Ray) Date: Sat Mar 23 18:20:01 2002 Subject: assign by reference - a comment References: <2B0F068D-3EB2-11D6-8BD5-0050E4C0B205@swcp.com> Message-ID: <006501c1d2c0$e5a90e20$05ebbc42@charter.net> Sorry, Dar, I don't like adding in "variable" into the mix... it just confuses things. Why not just call it what it is: a pointer. Instead of "put" (as we have for assignment), how about "point", as in: point to So if you said "point myVar to hisVar", you have the real variable in "hisVar" and the pointer in "myVar". Personally, I'd use more realisting names to get the point home, like if I had a local variable called "scoreCount", I might say: point scoreCountPtr to scoreCount But you get the idea... Ken Ray Sons of Thunder Software Email: kray at sonsothunder.com Web site: http://www.sonsothunder.com/ ----- Original Message ----- From: "Dar Scott" To: Sent: Saturday, March 23, 2002 5:03 PM Subject: Re: assign by reference - a comment > > On Saturday, March 23, 2002, at 10:58 AM, Rob Cozens wrote: > > > While I favor support for pointers, handles, etc. that does NOT > > mean I support their implementation in Xtalk with cryptic @ or @@ > > syntax al la C. Any support for these features should fit > > naturally into Xtalk: eg "get the address of someVariable" seems > > natural for a pointer. > > How about... > > put the id of variable oneVariable into pointerToVariable > put the "blah blah" into variable ID pointerToVariable > > Dar > > > > _______________________________________________ > use-revolution mailing list > use-revolution at lists.runrev.com > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution > From dsc at swcp.com Sat Mar 23 18:29:00 2002 From: dsc at swcp.com (Dar Scott) Date: Sat Mar 23 18:29:00 2002 Subject: assign by reference - a comment In-Reply-To: <006501c1d2c0$e5a90e20$05ebbc42@charter.net> Message-ID: <2021367C-3EB5-11D6-8BD5-0050E4C0B205@swcp.com> On Saturday, March 23, 2002, at 04:17 PM, Ken Ray wrote: > But you get the idea... Yes. I was thinking that it could borrow from concepts already in Revolution: get id of ... ID Dar From matt.denton at limelight.com.au Sat Mar 23 19:34:01 2002 From: matt.denton at limelight.com.au (Matt Denton) Date: Sat Mar 23 19:34:01 2002 Subject: use-revolution digest, Vol 1 #284 - 12 msgs In-Reply-To: <200203231704.MAA07289@www.runrev.com> Message-ID: <9B97386E-3EBE-11D6-B61B-0003930B4708@limelight.com.au> Dear List, I'm trying to decode text that has language diacritical marks included, to give the root-letter form: ? to e; ? to c etc. I've hunted through the documentation (Text and Data Processing) looking for some in-built transcript term or way of handling and matching these characters, I vaguely recall somewhere this has been addressed. Short of writing a small parser (not a hard task), does anyone know of commands/methods of handling these characters? My task is to match typed text in a field with a text that may or may not have diacritical marks, a field of about 32K of text data. Many thanks, I'll keep hunting the docs! M@ Matt Denton From dsc at swcp.com Sat Mar 23 20:49:01 2002 From: dsc at swcp.com (Dar Scott) Date: Sat Mar 23 20:49:01 2002 Subject: use-revolution digest, Vol 1 #284 - 12 msgs In-Reply-To: <9B97386E-3EBE-11D6-B61B-0003930B4708@limelight.com.au> Message-ID: On Saturday, March 23, 2002, at 05:32 PM, Matt Denton wrote: > Short of writing a small parser (not a hard task), does anyone > know of commands/methods of handling these characters? My task is > to match typed text in a field with a text that may or may not > have diacritical marks, a field of about 32K of text data. Just a wild idea... In a copy "replace" all diacritical letters with the canonical letters. (See "replace" command." Process with that. There might be some advantage to using the htmlText where you can refer to a letter as é or the like. Perhaps this would work better on multiple platforms. dar From dk42 at mac.com Sat Mar 23 21:24:01 2002 From: dk42 at mac.com (David Kwinter) Date: Sat Mar 23 21:24:01 2002 Subject: [Rev] Problem with seemingly simple code Message-ID: <03DDA6D2-3ECE-11D6-B190-003065C7D368@mac.com> This chunk of script lives in an idle handler and works fine on OSX, but when I open a compiled Windows version, I get nothing. Any thoughts? Should I have said 'empty' instead of "" in line 1? if field "in_field"="" and the number of lines in field "waiting_reqs">0 then put line 1 of field "waiting_reqs" into field "in_field" delete line 1 of field "waiting_reqs" send mouseup to button "sendReq" end if Btw, nice to meet everyone! My name's Dave, I'm 19, in university (UofT), and have worked with Hypercard, SC, MC, now Rev. since elementary school. I'm presently working on two client/server projects. One of which needs to be able to parse headers out of .DWG files, if anyone knows where I could find any sort of DWG xcmd, please let me know. (http://www.OpenDWG.com) Thanks for any help. From kray at sonsothunder.com Sat Mar 23 21:52:01 2002 From: kray at sonsothunder.com (Ken Ray) Date: Sat Mar 23 21:52:01 2002 Subject: [Rev] Problem with seemingly simple code References: <03DDA6D2-3ECE-11D6-B190-003065C7D368@mac.com> Message-ID: <009601c1d2de$88dad520$05ebbc42@charter.net> Welcome, Dave! Your code looks OK, although I'd parenthesize for clarity: if (field "in_field" = "") and (the number of lines of field "waiting_reqs" > 0) then put line 1 of field "waiting_reqs" into field "in_field" delete line 1 of field "waiting_reqs" send mouseUp to button "sendReq" end if You might also want to use: the text of field "in_field" instead of just: field "in_field" Both should be the same, but you never know. Also, can you put in an "answer" command and after the "if" statement to check the contents of the fields? As in: answer "Field 'in_field' contains: " & (field "in_field") & cr & \ "field 'waiting_reqs' contains: " & (the number of lines of field "waiting reqs") if (field "in_field" = "") and (the number of lines of field "waiting_reqs" > 0) then put line 1 of field "waiting_reqs" into field "in_field" delete line 1 of field "waiting_reqs" send mouseUp to button "sendReq" end if Just a few thoughts... Ken Ray Sons of Thunder Software Email: kray at sonsothunder.com Web site: http://www.sonsothunder.com/ ----- Original Message ----- From: "David Kwinter" To: Sent: Saturday, March 23, 2002 8:22 PM Subject: [Rev] Problem with seemingly simple code > This chunk of script lives in an idle handler and works fine on OSX, but > when I open a compiled Windows version, I get nothing. Any thoughts? > Should I have said 'empty' instead of "" in line 1? > > if field "in_field"="" and the number of lines in field "waiting_reqs">0 > then > put line 1 of field "waiting_reqs" into field "in_field" > delete line 1 of field "waiting_reqs" > send mouseup to button "sendReq" > end if > > Btw, nice to meet everyone! My name's Dave, I'm 19, in university > (UofT), and have worked with Hypercard, SC, MC, now Rev. since > elementary school. I'm presently working on two client/server projects. > One of which needs to be able to parse headers out of .DWG files, if > anyone knows where I could find any sort of DWG xcmd, please let me > know. (http://www.OpenDWG.com) > > Thanks for any help. > > _______________________________________________ > use-revolution mailing list > use-revolution at lists.runrev.com > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution > From dk42 at mac.com Sun Mar 24 00:17:01 2002 From: dk42 at mac.com (David Kwinter) Date: Sun Mar 24 00:17:01 2002 Subject: [Rev] Windows appearance in general Message-ID: <36364412-3EE6-11D6-B190-003065C7D368@mac.com> I'd say Revolution developed programs look simply beautiful in OSX and pretty good in OS9. But honestly, they come out somewhat ugly as Windows .EXEs. Is there any way to improve on all that grey area (and grey/white scrollbar), short of making image objects of all the nice os x buttons and fields? If there isn't, should I consider making a toolkit for 'dressing up' objects in Rev using images? Please forgive me if this is a well-worn issue, call me a Rev-newbie. Thanks, Dave From troy at rpsystems.net Sun Mar 24 00:26:01 2002 From: troy at rpsystems.net (Troy Rollins) Date: Sun Mar 24 00:26:01 2002 Subject: [Rev] Windows appearance in general In-Reply-To: <36364412-3EE6-11D6-B190-003065C7D368@mac.com> Message-ID: <5A287D60-3EE7-11D6-A454-000393853D6C@rpsystems.net> On Sunday, March 24, 2002, at 12:15 AM, David Kwinter wrote: > If there isn't, should I consider making a toolkit for 'dressing up' > objects in Rev using images? Sounds good to me David. What do you have in mind? I will say that to me, the Windows builds look rather "Windows-like", and frankly - that is rather ugly... plain at best. -- Troy RPSystems www.rpsystems.net From dsc at swcp.com Sun Mar 24 00:35:01 2002 From: dsc at swcp.com (Dar Scott) Date: Sun Mar 24 00:35:01 2002 Subject: [Rev] Problem with seemingly simple code In-Reply-To: <009601c1d2de$88dad520$05ebbc42@charter.net> Message-ID: <1EA5BB38-3EE8-11D6-A7A9-0050E4C0B205@swcp.com> On Saturday, March 23, 2002, at 07:49 PM, Ken Ray wrote: > answer "Field 'in_field' contains: " & (field "in_field") & cr & \ > "field 'waiting_reqs' contains: " & (the number of lines of > field "waiting reqs") Checking the data is a good idea. I get paranoid about spaces, though, and would do something like this: answer "Field 'in_field' contains: [" & (field "in_field") & "]" & cr & \ "field 'waiting_reqs' contains: " \ & (the number of lines of field "waiting reqs") (This does the same but bounds the value in brackets.) Or better yet, include the length. Field "in_field" might look empty but not be. Dar Scott bitten by non-printing characters From terry at discovery.nl Sun Mar 24 00:50:01 2002 From: terry at discovery.nl (Terry Vogelaar) Date: Sun Mar 24 00:50:01 2002 Subject: Resolution of printed images In-Reply-To: <9473B172-3E9D-11D6-8BD5-0050E4C0B205@swcp.com> Message-ID: > Is there a way to print images at a higher resolution than screen. No. Unless you import the hi-res version and reduce the size to the right display size on screen. But that would increase the file size and decrease the speed dramatically. Terry http://www.discovery.nl From jeanne at runrev.com Sun Mar 24 01:16:00 2002 From: jeanne at runrev.com (Jeanne A. E. DeVoto) Date: Sun Mar 24 01:16:00 2002 Subject: diacriticals (was Re: use-revolution digest, Vol 1 #284 - 12 msgs) In-Reply-To: <9B97386E-3EBE-11D6-B61B-0003930B4708@limelight.com.au> References: <200203231704.MAA07289@www.runrev.com> Message-ID: At 4:32 PM -0800 3/23/2002, Matt Denton wrote: >I'm trying to decode text that has language diacritical marks included, >to give the root-letter form: ? to e; ? to c etc. > >I've hunted through the documentation (Text and Data Processing) looking >for some in-built transcript term or way of handling and matching these >characters, I vaguely recall somewhere this has been addressed. I don't think there's an easy general way to do this. (You might be remembering the macToISO and ISOToMac functions, which swap such characters between different character sets but don't give you the "base" character.) -- Jeanne A. E. DeVoto ~ jeanne at runrev.com http://www.runrev.com/ Runtime Revolution Limited - Power to the Developer! From jeanne at runrev.com Sun Mar 24 01:16:11 2002 From: jeanne at runrev.com (Jeanne A. E. DeVoto) Date: Sun Mar 24 01:16:11 2002 Subject: Dragging a file on an application window In-Reply-To: Message-ID: At 2:06 PM -0800 3/23/2002, Giulio Mastrosanti wrote: >Is it possible to allow a user to drag a file onto the application window or >onto one of is controls? Not presently. -- Jeanne A. E. DeVoto ~ jeanne at runrev.com http://www.runrev.com/ Runtime Revolution Limited - Power to the Developer! From dsc at swcp.com Sun Mar 24 01:22:01 2002 From: dsc at swcp.com (Dar Scott) Date: Sun Mar 24 01:22:01 2002 Subject: Resolution of printed images In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Saturday, March 23, 2002, at 10:47 PM, Terry Vogelaar wrote: >> Is there a way to print images at a higher resolution than screen. > > No. Unless you import the hi-res version and reduce the size to > the right > display size on screen. But that would increase the file size and > decrease > the speed dramatically. Perhaps this would be best limited to a few cards. I tried painting an image and reducing it to a quarter size. I then printed the card. I still got the screen resolution (1.1.1 B2, OS X). Is there something special about importing? Dar From jeanne at runrev.com Sun Mar 24 01:31:01 2002 From: jeanne at runrev.com (Jeanne A. E. DeVoto) Date: Sun Mar 24 01:31:01 2002 Subject: Resolution of printed images In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: At 10:17 PM -0800 3/23/2002, Dar Scott wrote: >I tried painting an image and reducing it to a quarter size. I >then printed the card. I still got the screen resolution (1.1.1 >B2, OS X). > >Is there something special about importing? Try leaving the image at full size and then scaling it during printing with the "print into rect" form. For example: put the width of this card div 4 into printedWidth put the height of this card div 4 into printedHeight print this card into rect 0,0,printedWidth,printedHeight -- Jeanne A. E. DeVoto ~ jeanne at runrev.com http://www.runrev.com/ Runtime Revolution Limited - Power to the Developer! From shaosean at unitz.ca Sun Mar 24 02:01:00 2002 From: shaosean at unitz.ca (Shao Sean) Date: Sun Mar 24 02:01:00 2002 Subject: [Rev] Windows appearance in general References: <36364412-3EE6-11D6-B190-003065C7D368@mac.com> Message-ID: <002b01c1d301$201eec10$88b15bd1@lanfear> > But honestly, they come out somewhat ugly as Windows .EXEs. *lol* why change the "standard" now ;-) windows apps have always looked ugly, but you gotta work with what "they" give you.. From matt.denton at limelight.com.au Sun Mar 24 02:04:01 2002 From: matt.denton at limelight.com.au (Matt Denton) Date: Sun Mar 24 02:04:01 2002 Subject: Diacritical Marks and matching text In-Reply-To: <200203240537.AAA17957@www.runrev.com> Message-ID: Hey Dar/List Thanks for the tip Dar, yes Replace was my next logical step, however I'm *sure* I read somewhere there was a way to compare/sort/match text that ignored text with and without the diacritical marks, thus using a built in method rather than repeating the text (minimalist approach). Still, I could be wrong... it is annoying to think "I've read about that somewhere" and not be able to find that reference. Thanks too for the tip on using htmlText, that indeed might be the best path. Anyone else have any clues? (I'm sure to find the reference a few days later, with a D'oh!) M@ Matt Denton On Sunday, March 24, 2002, at 04:37 PM, Dar Scott wrote: >> On Saturday, March 23, 2002, at 05:32 PM, Matt Denton wrote: >> I'm trying to decode text that has language diacritical marks included, >> to give the root-letter form: ? to e; ? to c etc. >> >> I've hunted through the documentation (Text and Data Processing) >> looking >> for some in-built transcript term or way of handling and matching these >> characters, I vaguely recall somewhere this has been addressed. >> >> Short of writing a small parser (not a hard task), does anyone >> know of commands/methods of handling these characters? My task is >> to match typed text in a field with a text that may or may not >> have diacritical marks, a field of about 32K of text data. > > Just a wild idea... > > In a copy "replace" all diacritical letters with the canonical > letters. (See "replace" command." Process with that. > > There might be some advantage to using the htmlText where you can > refer to a letter as é or the like. Perhaps this would work > better on multiple platforms. From yvescoppe at skynet.be Sun Mar 24 04:34:01 2002 From: yvescoppe at skynet.be (yves COPPE) Date: Sun Mar 24 04:34:01 2002 Subject: html Message-ID: Hi, I'd like to print some text in a exact format. So I convert my text in html and use the revprintText command. It works fine. But how can I translate in html the following : tabtab tabtab and giving the tabstops a fixed value ? Is it possible in Rev ? Thanks. -- Greetings. Yves COPPE Email : yvescoppe at skynet.be From shaosean at unitz.ca Sun Mar 24 04:39:01 2002 From: shaosean at unitz.ca (Shao Sean) Date: Sun Mar 24 04:39:01 2002 Subject: html References: Message-ID: <005b01c1d317$2d0b0510$88b15bd1@lanfear> there is no tabbing in html, but rev understands the tabs and will correctly use them with the tabstops you have set set the htmlText of field "htmlField" to "Hello" & TAB & "Yves" From chipp at chipp.com Sun Mar 24 05:05:01 2002 From: chipp at chipp.com (Chipp Walters) Date: Sun Mar 24 05:05:01 2002 Subject: RunRev version? Message-ID: How can one tell the current version of RunRev -- and the current version of the MC engine RunRev is using? -Chipp -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jeanne at runrev.com Sun Mar 24 05:12:02 2002 From: jeanne at runrev.com (Jeanne A. E. DeVoto) Date: Sun Mar 24 05:12:02 2002 Subject: copying objects In-Reply-To: Message-ID: At 7:04 PM -0800 3/22/2002, Steve Messimer wrote: >TopStack Question: Does the topStack designate the mainStack or the stack >that is in the currently active window? It's a bit complicated. In general, the topStack is the active window. (This can be a main stack or a substack; it doesn't matter one way or the other.) But the cantModify of the stack, and its style, can modify this. If the frontmost stack is a normal editable stack (a toplevel stack whose cantModify is false), then it's the topStack. But if it's a palette, modal or modeless dialog, or if its cantModify is false, then the topmost topLevel modifiable stack is the topStack. -- Jeanne A. E. DeVoto ~ jeanne at runrev.com http://www.runrev.com/ Runtime Revolution Limited - Power to the Developer! From jeanne at runrev.com Sun Mar 24 05:12:11 2002 From: jeanne at runrev.com (Jeanne A. E. DeVoto) Date: Sun Mar 24 05:12:11 2002 Subject: RunRev version? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: At 2:02 AM -0800 3/24/2002, Chipp Walters wrote: >How can one tell the current version of RunRev Check the value of the revAppVersion function. >and the current version of the MC engine RunRev is using? The version and buildNumber functions. (The buildNumber is a "subversion", as it were - the engine for the current beta, for example, is build 7 of version 2.4.1). -- Jeanne A. E. DeVoto ~ jeanne at runrev.com http://www.runrev.com/ Runtime Revolution Limited - Power to the Developer! From yvescoppe at skynet.be Sun Mar 24 05:35:01 2002 From: yvescoppe at skynet.be (yves COPPE) Date: Sun Mar 24 05:35:01 2002 Subject: DLOG Problem Message-ID: Hello, I have a stack A (which is actually a substack of a main and an editable stack). From stack A, I call another stack B which is a DLOG (modal stack B). In Rev, it runs fine. I build the app. Problem : when I call the DLOG this one appears on the screen one second, then disappessr in back of stack A, so this DLOG is not the frontmost and the fields cannot be filled. How can a modal stack disappears in the back of an editable window ? How can I bring it to front ? I don't have access to any objects, since a DLOG is on the screen and the script is waiting I hit the "OK" or "Cancel" button. I call the stack B with the following : ... ... modal stack "B" ... ... thanks. -- Greetings. Yves COPPE Email : yvescoppe at skynet.be From yvescoppe at skynet.be Sun Mar 24 10:12:01 2002 From: yvescoppe at skynet.be (yves COPPE) Date: Sun Mar 24 10:12:01 2002 Subject: DLOG Problem Message-ID: Hi, Without answer, I come with my question again : A script in a substack A calls a DLOG (stack B) In rev : it works fine If I buid the app : when the DLOG comes on the screen, it stays one second and then it goes to the back, preventing to do anything, because the script wait until I hit the "OK" or th" Cancel" btn to goes further. The DLOG stays in the back of stack "A" which is an editable window I've tried with lock messages before calling the DLOG in my script but it makes no difference. my script is : ... ... modal stack "B" ... ... any ideas ? Thanks. -- Greetings. Yves COPPE Email : yvescoppe at skynet.be From rcozens at pon.net Sun Mar 24 12:44:01 2002 From: rcozens at pon.net (Rob Cozens) Date: Sun Mar 24 12:44:01 2002 Subject: Why Projects Fail In-Reply-To: <99F287F6-3EA3-11D6-A3A3-000393598038@mac.com> References: <99F287F6-3EA3-11D6-A3A3-000393598038@mac.com> Message-ID: >My point, however, had little to do with whether or not we are >discussing powerful programming mechanisms. I said they were and was >careful to point out my own familiarity and pleasure at using them. >However, my day job includes finding out why $MM projects are off >the rails and trying to fix them both technically and commercially, >and the techniques you are describing are not industrial strength, >are not tolerable in enterprise software development. This is the >history of the last 20 to 30 years of software development tools. Go >ahead and use them for a stack, debug the hell out of it and you >will probably have a very sweet application to offer. Just please >don't tell me that this is the the way we should present as a >standard set of development tools or techniques. David, I'd very much like to learn more about the conclusions you've drawn from your investigations. If other List members are not interested, let's take this off list. However, I think a discussion of what you've found could prove helpful to all; so I've started a new thread to see if anyone else is interested. A couple of personal observations you are welcome to comment on: 1. The advent of larger & cheaper mass storage & RAM, plus faster CPUs have shifted the primary programming emphasis from compactness & efficiency to readability & maintainability. If programmers (moi included) put as much effort into writing & documenting maintainable code as we put into finding the way to implement an algorithm in the fewest (or logically most efficient) statements, we would be taking a step toward eliminating the kinds of failures you are investigating. 2. IMFO, one of the aspects contributing to the difficulties associated with pointers and handles is the syntactically cryptic method by which they have been implemented in C and other languages. If the failed projects you have investigated were written in C, I would propose that one reason for the project's failure is the cryptic nature of C syntax in general. There are so many variations on the same statement grammar that are syntactically correct but mean something entirely different (eg: if I remember correctly terminating certain statements with a semi-colon changed the meaning entirely) it's an ambush waiting to happen. I think the concepts can be implemented in Xtalk in a way that suggests intrinsically the nature of the operation. 3. For moi personally, the goal is to enable direct system calls from Xtalk. Many system calls expect handles or pointers to be passed in parameter blocks. Were it not for that use, I would be happy to live without them. (I guess I'm saying, "if you can get system programmers to stop requiring pointers & handles, I can live without those features".) 4. But pointers & handles were probably part of the code that put mankind on the moon and guided spacecraft out of our solar system...as well as crashing one into Mars because one routine worked in metric while another worked in feet & inches. So there's more involved in success or failure of a major programming project then whether the programming language gives one access to "programmers matches." Can you share your overall observations & conclusions with us? 5. I have worked primarily independently or with one assistant; so I can only project the dynamics of large group programming projects. I suspect some of the problems you've investigated may stem from there. -- Rob Cozens CCW, Serendipity Software Company http://www.oenolog.com/who.htm "And I, which was two fooles, do so grow three; Who are a little wise, the best fooles bee." from "The Triple Foole" by John Donne (1572-1631) From rcozens at pon.net Sun Mar 24 12:44:43 2002 From: rcozens at pon.net (Rob Cozens) Date: Sun Mar 24 12:44:43 2002 Subject: assign by reference - a comment In-Reply-To: <2B0F068D-3EB2-11D6-8BD5-0050E4C0B205@swcp.com> References: <2B0F068D-3EB2-11D6-8BD5-0050E4C0B205@swcp.com> Message-ID: >>While I favor support for pointers, handles, etc. that does NOT >>mean I support their implementation in Xtalk with cryptic @ or @@ >>syntax al la C. Any support for these features should fit >>naturally into Xtalk: eg "get the address of someVariable" seems >>natural for a pointer. > >How about... > >put the id of variable oneVariable into pointerToVariable >put the "blah blah" into variable ID pointerToVariable Hi Dar, If there are more folks on this List interested in support for these features, we could jointly produce a complete list of suggested syntax and present it to the Xtalk List for consideration. I think there are many possible terms, and the more people who participate and offer suggestions, the more likely a viable syntax will emerge. The feature I find most difficult to convert to Xtalk is data structure notation and reference, which, by implication, requires explicit variable typing. -- Rob Cozens CCW, Serendipity Software Company http://www.oenolog.com/who.htm "And I, which was two fooles, do so grow three; Who are a little wise, the best fooles bee." from "The Triple Foole" by John Donne (1572-1631) From karlpet at mac.com Sun Mar 24 13:10:01 2002 From: karlpet at mac.com (Karl Petersen) Date: Sun Mar 24 13:10:01 2002 Subject: Something strange in the tutorial "The Animation Manager" In-Reply-To: <3C93628B.B825805B@intermedia25.se> References: <3C93628B.B825805B@intermedia25.se> Message-ID: At 4:19 PM +0100 3/16/02, Alexander Liden wrote: >I've just downloaded version 1.1.1 of Revolution on my Mac (OS 9.1). I >thought I start out with the tutorials. As I started with the tutorial >"The Animation Manager" all went well until I came to card 10 of 11. >The instruction says Same problem here. Everything worked correctly, however, if I rewound the animation before closing the Animation Manager window. (The Animation Manager seems to have a mind of its own. That, or I haven't yet figured out the secret handshake.) This newbie (still Tutorializing) is feeling a bit frustrated by the number of basic editing functions that don't seem to work in Animation Manager and elsewhere. Revolution looks very, very promising, but I'm hoping trial and error soon stops being so heavily tilted towards error. Karl -- hoping for a light at the end of the tunnel -- Petersen From tsimmons at employmentlawadvisors.com Sun Mar 24 13:32:01 2002 From: tsimmons at employmentlawadvisors.com (William T. Simmons) Date: Sun Mar 24 13:32:01 2002 Subject: Why Projects Fail References: <99F287F6-3EA3-11D6-A3A3-000393598038@mac.com> Message-ID: <004b01c1d361$e5bd9560$0000a398@sndmgr122> I hope you all keep this discussion on-list. I'm certainly getting some good insights from it, and I don't think I'm alone on that. Thanks, Tommy Simmons Employment Law Advisory Network www.employmentlawadvisors.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "Rob Cozens" To: Sent: Sunday, March 24, 2002 11:21 AM Subject: Why Projects Fail > David, > > I'd very much like to learn more about the conclusions you've drawn > from your investigations. If other List members are not interested, > let's take this off list. However, I think a discussion of what > you've found could prove helpful to all; so I've started a new thread > to see if anyone else is interested. From os at brainbits.net Sun Mar 24 14:47:01 2002 From: os at brainbits.net (Olaf Schmidtmann) Date: Sun Mar 24 14:47:01 2002 Subject: Why Projects Fail Message-ID: <10F85FB0AADBD511880F004854133BC8012EFF@HAWK> Hi, yes, I totally agree. I think this exchange could enlighten some of us - especially those who usually develop in smaller units (which I do). Thank you, Olaf -- Olaf Schmidtmann brainbits online & cross media mailto:os at brainbits.net / www.brainbits.net > From: William T. Simmons [mailto:tsimmons at employmentlawadvisors.com] > Sent: Sunday, March 24, 2002 7:30 PM > > I hope you all keep this discussion on-list. I'm certainly > getting some good > insights from it, and I don't think I'm alone on that. > Thanks, > Tommy Simmons > Employment Law Advisory Network > www.employmentlawadvisors.com > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Rob Cozens" > To: > Sent: Sunday, March 24, 2002 11:21 AM > Subject: Why Projects Fail > > > > David, > > > > I'd very much like to learn more about the conclusions you've drawn > > from your investigations. If other List members are not interested, > > let's take this off list. However, I think a discussion of what > > you've found could prove helpful to all; so I've started a > new thread > > to see if anyone else is interested. > > _______________________________________________ > use-revolution mailing list > use-revolution at lists.runrev.com > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution > From Cubist at aol.com Sun Mar 24 16:41:01 2002 From: Cubist at aol.com (Cubist at aol.com) Date: Sun Mar 24 16:41:01 2002 Subject: Diacritical Marks and matching text Message-ID: <78.23fdcb6d.29cfa169@aol.com> If you want to do operations on diacritical-laden text that ignores the diacritical marks, one obvious solution would be a function that replaces diacritical'ed characters with their plain equivalents. Once you've done that job, something like this might work... Two constants are required. First, construct a string that consists of all possible diacritical'ed characters, and put it into a variable called "FancyChar". Next, replace all the diacritical'ed characters in FancyChar with their non-diacriticaled equivalents; the resulting string goes into a variable called "PlainChar". function StripDiacriticals DaText put 0 into DaKount repeat with each character Dia of FancyChar add 1 to DaKount put offset (Dia, DaText) into Zelda put char DaKount of PlainChar into BoringChar repeat while Zelda <> 0 put BoringChar into char Zelda of DaText end repeat end repeat return DaText end StripDiacriticals This is heavily HyperCard influenced; I haven't messed with MetaCard enough to know whether there are any subtle differences that would make this function misbehave in MC/Rev. Be that as it may, the underlying logic should be fairly clear... Hope this helps! From sarahr at genesearch.com.au Sun Mar 24 17:38:01 2002 From: sarahr at genesearch.com.au (Sarah Reichelt) Date: Sun Mar 24 17:38:01 2002 Subject: Help! Title bar of stack under Rev button bar In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <8CDD4738-3F77-11D6-935B-00306566C7B4@genesearch.com.au> >> This is cool! It hides the dock, too! If I can figure out how to >> install an application as a screen saver on OS X, I could make a >> screen saver. >> >> But this doesn't help this problem. The title bar of the stack ends >> up under the button bar, not the menu bar. (OS X) >> In the View menu, turn off "Toolbar Text" & "Toolbar Icons". Turning both off makes the button bar disappear completely. I have a stack that automatically places itself at the top left of the screen on opening - this is so it works well on smaller screens when run as a standalone. With Mac OS 9, I was able to grab it by the edge of the window and drag it back into view but under OS X, I can't :-( Cheers, Sarah From sarahr at genesearch.com.au Sun Mar 24 17:50:01 2002 From: sarahr at genesearch.com.au (Sarah Reichelt) Date: Sun Mar 24 17:50:01 2002 Subject: [Rev] Problem with seemingly simple code In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <49AFFD7C-3F79-11D6-935B-00306566C7B4@genesearch.com.au> Hi Dave, I suspect the problem may be in the "sendReq" button. Send messages are very polite and just do nothing if they have an error instead of frightening your users with a cryptic message. Try putting some "answer" statements in you scripts so you can see what happens but if the scripts haven't been able to compile, they may not get called at all. Also, try building the standalone in OS X as well as in Windows - there may be a problem with file paths once it is a separate app instead of part of the Revolution environment. Cheers, Sarah On Sunday, March 24, 2002, at 12:22 pm, David Kwinter wrote: > This chunk of script lives in an idle handler and works fine on OSX, > but when I open a compiled Windows version, I get nothing. Any > thoughts? Should I have said 'empty' instead of "" in line 1? > > if field "in_field"="" and the number of lines in field > "waiting_reqs">0 then > put line 1 of field "waiting_reqs" into field "in_field" > delete line 1 of field "waiting_reqs" > send mouseup to button "sendReq" > end if From drvaughan55 at mac.com Sun Mar 24 18:47:01 2002 From: drvaughan55 at mac.com (David Vaughan) Date: Sun Mar 24 18:47:01 2002 Subject: Why Projects Fail In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <38B0AEF0-3F81-11D6-90C2-000393598038@mac.com> On Monday, March 25, 2002, at 04:21 , Rob Cozens wrote: >> My point, however, had little to do with whether or not we are >> discussing powerful programming mechanisms. I said they were and was >> careful to point out my own familiarity and pleasure at using them. >> However, my day job includes finding out why $MM projects are off the >> rails and trying to fix them both technically and commercially, and >> the techniques you are describing are not industrial strength, are not >> tolerable in enterprise software development. This is the history of >> the last 20 to 30 years of software development tools. Go ahead and >> use them for a stack, debug the hell out of it and you will probably >> have a very sweet application to offer. Just please don't tell me that >> this is the the way we should present as a standard set of development >> tools or techniques. > > David, > > I'd very much like to learn more about the conclusions you've drawn > from your investigations. If other List members are not interested, > let's take this off list. However, I think a discussion of what you've > found could prove helpful to all; so I've started a new thread to see > if anyone else is interested. > snip > > 5. I have worked primarily independently or with one assistant; so I > can only project the dynamics of large group programming projects. I > suspect some of the problems you've investigated may stem from there. This is the first of two posts on the topic. I need this one so I do not give the wrong impression of why projects fail. The most common reasons could be called commercial rather than technical. The post straight after this one will talk about languages and coding. If you want to trot down to the library, you might read are Ed Yourdon's "Death March" Prentice-Hall 1997 or on methodologies there is the somewhat patchy but interesting DeGrace and Stahl "Wicked Problems, Righteous Solutions" Prentice Hall 1990. Capers-Jones' "Applied Software Measurement" McGraw-Hill 1996 is worth a look for the effects of different software tools on productivity, and probably helps account for a bias I just might have against C and its derivatives, and admiration for the xTalk products among others. There are many other works in veins similar to those mentioned above. Most failing projects I encounter have problems not with tools or coding as such but with: - initial and continuing specification failure by the customer and analyst - estimation error or unrealistic deadlines, with feeble risk management [words highlighted in bright red] - scope creep [words highlighted in red with clashing cymbals] both in its natural form and feeding hungrily on the first two. Poor project management might equally be seen as causal of the above as much as exacerbating those problems. In any event there will almost certainly be failure of the contractual relationship in that it will be brittle. The project manager and customer will appear to others to be friendly but will agree about nothing, like a failing marriage; they can no longer resolve contractual issues so as to make progress. A concept of triage helps here. These are large projects (more about that in the next post). DeGrace and Stahl suggest (they never assert) that the most productive software team comprises two to four people, so many of you here will be in a near-ideal position. However, contrary to some rumour that "large projects can never finish" studies I have done of reported completions show no productivity difference as the scale goes from medium to very large. Note that this ignores small projects and non-completions - it looks only at productivity. If you are contracting to do a specified development for a client rather than developing own product for market then I suggest you not be shy about your contractual rights and obligations, and put serious work into estimation and into prototyping and actual sign-off, in writing, on micro-stages of your work. Pay and support staff who are genuinely good and get rid of those who aren't. Select productive tools early and stick with them only. In general, issues other than the tools are more important in the software failure picture but tools themselves have a crucial impact on immediate productivity and on longer term maintenance. So, on to the topic of more immediate relevance. cheers David > -- > Rob Cozens > CCW, Serendipity Software Company > http://www.oenolog.com/who.htm > > "And I, which was two fooles, do so grow three; > Who are a little wise, the best fooles bee." > > from "The Triple Foole" by John Donne (1572-1631) > _______________________________________________ > use-revolution mailing list > use-revolution at lists.runrev.com > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution > From drvaughan55 at mac.com Sun Mar 24 18:47:13 2002 From: drvaughan55 at mac.com (David Vaughan) Date: Sun Mar 24 18:47:13 2002 Subject: Why Projects Fail In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <3BDD4C31-3F81-11D6-90C2-000393598038@mac.com> On Monday, March 25, 2002, at 04:21 , Rob Cozens wrote: > > A couple of personal observations you are welcome to comment on: > > 1. The advent of larger & cheaper mass storage & RAM, plus faster CPUs > have shifted the primary programming emphasis from compactness & > efficiency to readability & maintainability. If programmers (moi > included) put as much effort into writing & documenting maintainable > code as we put into finding the way to implement an algorithm in the > fewest (or logically most efficient) statements, we would be taking a > step toward eliminating the kinds of failures you are investigating. Very true and, I think, exactly what has been happening progressively over many years. I use the comparison between C (C++) and Java as the paradigm of this change. Java when it emerged was promoted as write-once run-anywhere and as providing a "secure" (not dangerous) scripting language for web browsers and the like. However, I believe the prime reason for its adoption in the enterprise is precisely its lack of handles and pointers which leads, I think directly, to a an increase of 2-3 times in programmer productivity compared with C++ (See Capers-Jones). The improvement happens in large part because writing and especially debugging is faster when you are not having to use debuggers with breakpoints and variable inspection to discover that the handle you thought you had is actually something else. At run time an erroneous reference is usually pretty tragic in its consequences and customers rapidly lose patience with this sort of thing. I am familiar with a very large manufacturing plant which in the 80s wrote a beautiful messaging product to support distributed process control in the plant. Now, they are paying licence fees to IBM for MQSeries and a significant reason for that is that they found their home-grown application, while perfectly efficient and reliable as it stood, was no longer maintainable for minor tweaks to to transfer to new platforms - tricky code and lack of documentation to follow the strands of spaghetti. > > 2. IMFO, one of the aspects contributing to the difficulties > associated with pointers and handles is the syntactically cryptic > method by which they have been implemented in C and other languages. I Not sure. You might be right. I thought using Variable @{handle_to_}Variable @@{pointer_to_}Variable had its own merit as a structure. > > 3. For moi personally, the goal is to enable direct system calls from > Xtalk. Can we do this by any other means? You are familiar with CompileIt!. There, although we could return handles to the HyperTalk script, we normally used them in the compiled code and CompileIt! provided the toolbox data structures or handled the translation from HyperTalk variables to code variables you could stuff in to the structures. This is my preferred approach. Not to make system calls an immediate part of xTalk but to provide an add-on, a portal if you like, through which the system calls became accessible. We could quote Dante (or was it Milton) above in the documentation: "Abandon hope all ye who enter here ( except flash programmers)" :-) > 4. But pointers & handles were probably part of the code that put > mankind on the moon and guided spacecraft out of our solar system. I am told by a former colleague who worked on such stuff that they also used co-operative multi-tasking because it is more compact, efficient and faster than pre-emptive scheduling and thus ideal for RAM-constrained well-defined systems...... _provided_ that every programmer is aware of and allows for other tasks running on the same system. Throw co-operative multi-tasking into the real world where everyone necessarily writes for themselves and runtime priorities may vary and a pre-emptive approach walks all over it. An example that what works for a small team and specific task may be quite different from what works for a general population. > 5. I have worked primarily independently or with one assistant; so I > can only project the dynamics of large group programming projects. I > suspect some of the problems you've investigated may stem from there. I commented in the previous post on productivity of small teams. Each programmer is an individual creative entity so on large projects you need protection against the fact that creator A neither knows nor probably cares enough what creator B is doing. Hence the importance of well defined interfaces, hiding of data and methods and so on, and even the need to protect against coding errors by someone whose heart is currently down the beach rather than in their software product. > Rob Cozens > CCW, Serendipity Software Company > http://www.oenolog.com/who.htm > > "And I, which was two fooles, do so grow three; > Who are a little wise, the best fooles bee." > > from "The Triple Foole" by John Donne (1572-1631) > _______________________________________________ > use-revolution mailing list > use-revolution at lists.runrev.com > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution > From webmaster at studioalice.se Mon Mar 25 02:23:01 2002 From: webmaster at studioalice.se (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Magnus_von_Br=F6msen?=) Date: Mon Mar 25 02:23:01 2002 Subject: Save with different extension Message-ID: Hello I want to save a text-file with different extension (on Windows) ? if this is possible (?). So, I have this script: on mouseUp ask file "Save order as:" with filter "Excel file,*.xls","Word file,*.doc","Plain text,*.txt" if it is empty then exit mouseUp put field "OrderData" into url ("file:" & it) end mouseUp I can choose between the different types, but I have to manually write the extension to the filename to have the file associated to the application. Can that be done in the script? /magnus ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- "Tiden g?r och Macen best?r" ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- Studio Alice Magnus von Br?msen 0702-212 495 0322-633 833 www.studioalice.se -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text/enriched Size: 846 bytes Desc: not available URL: From michaell at unimelb.edu.au Mon Mar 25 04:49:01 2002 From: michaell at unimelb.edu.au (Michael J. Lew) Date: Mon Mar 25 04:49:01 2002 Subject: Tracking user exits and returns Message-ID: I am finishing a project where students will generate data in a simulation that I have constructed in Rev and then take the data to a commercial graphing and analysis package for further crunching (the excellent Macintosh program called pro Fit). In the session I expect the students will switch between my program and the graphing package about half a dozen times. I am planning a full evaluation of the software and associated notes from the point of view of both usability and learning outcomes and would like a reasonably full audit-trail recording the students' actions and results. This is, of course, very straightforward for the Rev bit... but how can I record when the students switch to the other package and how do I know when they switch back to my Rev simulation? I expected that I could use closeStack and openstack messages but no good. They don't seem to be sent when the user switches to and from another program. Any suggestions? Regards, -- Michael J. Lew Senior Lecturer Department of Pharmacology The University of Melbourne Parkville 3010 Victoria Australia Phone +613 8344 8304 ** New email address: michaell at unimelb.edu.au ** From shaosean at unitz.ca Mon Mar 25 05:13:01 2002 From: shaosean at unitz.ca (Shao Sean) Date: Mon Mar 25 05:13:01 2002 Subject: Tracking user exits and returns References: Message-ID: <002001c1d3e5$10b34480$88b15bd1@lanfear> > good. They don't seem to be sent when the user switches to and from > another program. Any suggestions? check out "suspendStack" and "resumeStack" on suspendStack put "i'll be back" end suspendStack on resumeStack put "back in action" end resumseStack From dsc at swcp.com Mon Mar 25 11:07:01 2002 From: dsc at swcp.com (Dar Scott) Date: Mon Mar 25 11:07:01 2002 Subject: External, read from process or read from socket? Message-ID: I'm down to making some evaluation applications. I want to make some test stacks that interface to some existing and some new programs and services running on several W2K systems in a distributed control system. Communication among these use some multithreaded C++ libraries. The test stack needs to communicate the same way. I'm considering three approaches for the glue: 1. Calls to externals. 2. TCP/IP to a separate go-between process (program or service). 3. Read and write from and to a console app started with "open process". Any warnings? Good experiences or bad? Dar Scott From rcozens at pon.net Mon Mar 25 12:49:01 2002 From: rcozens at pon.net (Rob Cozens) Date: Mon Mar 25 12:49:01 2002 Subject: The Last Three Tutorials--Mac Classic 1.1.1 Message-ID: General note: I'm having problems knowing what tool I should see when. It seems, if the cursor is over a stack or palette it's the browse tool; but when the cursor moves over the menubar or any Tutorial stacks it changes to the pointer. Geometry Manager: A. Will this work correctly with a stack that has been scripted for the Animation Tutorial? I had problems after clicking on "Reset" after installing the animation; so I replaced the "Show Me" script referencing the animation with the one from the Getting Started Tutorial. B. The first time through I changed positioning settings instead of scaling settings or vice versa and got thoroughly confused. Is there a way to tell the Geometry Manager "forget everything I've done so far" and start over? C. The second time through I was much more careful to pay attention to what I was changing where, and I had no problems. D. Suggestion: The tutorial instructs one to set the field in the same manner as the buttons (ie fixed distance from the bottom). I found centering the field to the center of the card produced (IMFO) a better effect. 5. Profile Manager: A. Can the Profile Manager & the Geometry Manager work together? When I select profile "LargeFont" the buttons no longer change position when I resize the window. If I revert to "Master", the Geometry Manager settings work again. Would the preferred method be to set up the profiles before working with the Geometry Manager? And is it necessary to apply the Geometry Manager once to each object for each profile? 6. Independent Study: A. I believe the issue of the image not appearing has already been mentioned. I will add that after clicking at what I presume to be the picture image location and selecting one of the employee jpgs, I am returned to the database in the pointer tool instead of the browse tool with no picture visible. Likewise, when I enter the employeedb stack after clicking on the "Open Example" button on card 13 of this tutorial, I am in the pointer tool and must click on the tool palette before I can click on a button. Has this something to do with being in the development environment? B. After creating an employee db I clicked on the left corner close box. I was not shown a "Save" dialog. C. When selecting "Close" from the menubar, I was shown a "Save" dialog; however the employee db tutorial did not list either of my .edb files when I tried to open an existing db. I found the dbs I created were file type "RSTK" instead of "EDB_" I tried changing the file type to "EDB_" using ResEdit; but the main stack still didn't recognize my .edb files. D. Clicking on the "Open Example" button on card 13 of this tutorial a second or subsequent time without quitting Revolution doesn't seem to open the stack correctly. E. Importing data into a new db gave me a blank record "Card ID 1031" in addition to Fernando, Karen, Lavonne, & Joe...all with no pictures. Export data worked fine...although I deleted "Card ID 1031" before testing it. I presume one could modify the import/export handlers to (optionally?) include the name or id of the employee's image, and that import could place the image on the card. Having completed all six tutorials, I am: 1. Left with some uncertainty as to how the various managers can be applied in concert; but 2. More impressed than ever by what the RunRev team, albeit with a strong underpinning via MetaCard, has accomplished. -- Rob Cozens CCW, Serendipity Software Company http://www.oenolog.com/who.htm "And I, which was two fooles, do so grow three; Who are a little wise, the best fooles bee." from "The Triple Foole" by John Donne (1572-1631) From rcozens at pon.net Mon Mar 25 12:50:37 2002 From: rcozens at pon.net (Rob Cozens) Date: Mon Mar 25 12:50:37 2002 Subject: assign by reference - a comment In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: >ironic "... David, Thanks for causing me to take a deep breath and ponder how I got from telling Tom >> No, neither Transcript nor any other Xtalk dialect I'm aware of includes syntax for pointers or handles. Some of us would like to see it, at least so far as is necessary to support direct system calls from Transcript. << to telling Dar >> If there are more folks on this List interested in support for these features, we could jointly produce a complete list of suggested syntax and present it to the Xtalk List for consideration. << In retrospect, what I want is a way to handle system calls from within Transcript. While I have played with pointer manipulation in string processing externals, my only real need for pointers & handles is in processing system calls. Perhaps my (our?) focus might be better directed toward devising an Xtalk system call interface that doesn't let the scriptor know about the pointer/handle manipulation going on behind the scenes? To be less selfish, I am will to reconsider my position yet again, IF someone can show me there are other things besides handling system calls that cannot be otherwise scripted in Xtalk without pointer/handle manipulation. -- Rob Cozens CCW, Serendipity Software Company http://www.oenolog.com/who.htm "And I, which was two fooles, do so grow three; Who are a little wise, the best fooles bee." from "The Triple Foole" by John Donne (1572-1631) From rcozens at pon.net Mon Mar 25 14:39:01 2002 From: rcozens at pon.net (Rob Cozens) Date: Mon Mar 25 14:39:01 2002 Subject: Something strange in the tutorial "The Animation Manager" In-Reply-To: References: <3C93628B.B825805B@intermedia25.se> Message-ID: >Karl -- hoping for a light at the end of the tunnel -- Petersen Welcome aboard Karl, Give it a little time, and you'll have no problems. What have you & the eagles been up to in the post-HyperCard era? -- Rob Cozens CCW, Serendipity Software Company http://www.oenolog.com/who.htm "And I, which was two fooles, do so grow three; Who are a little wise, the best fooles bee." from "The Triple Foole" by John Donne (1572-1631) From rcozens at pon.net Mon Mar 25 14:39:35 2002 From: rcozens at pon.net (Rob Cozens) Date: Mon Mar 25 14:39:35 2002 Subject: Save with different extension In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: >I can choose between the different types, but I have to manually >write the extension to the filename to have the file associated to >the application. >Can that be done in the script? Hi Magnus, Look in the stack script for the Independent Study tutorial. Just follow the tutorial and it will take you there. -- Rob Cozens CCW, Serendipity Software Company http://www.oenolog.com/who.htm "And I, which was two fooles, do so grow three; Who are a little wise, the best fooles bee." from "The Triple Foole" by John Donne (1572-1631) -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From rcozens at pon.net Mon Mar 25 14:46:01 2002 From: rcozens at pon.net (Rob Cozens) Date: Mon Mar 25 14:46:01 2002 Subject: Why Projects Fail In-Reply-To: <38B0AEF0-3F81-11D6-90C2-000393598038@mac.com> References: <38B0AEF0-3F81-11D6-90C2-000393598038@mac.com> Message-ID: >Most failing projects I encounter have problems not with tools or >coding as such but with: >- initial and continuing specification failure by the customer and analyst >- estimation error or unrealistic deadlines, with feeble risk >management [words highlighted in bright red] >- scope creep [words highlighted in red with clashing cymbals] both >in its natural form and feeding hungrily on the first two. David, I can't thank you enough for you wonderful analysis. Every time I read about something like the California Dept. of Motor Vehicles abandoning an automated registration system after x years and $yM, I think, "give me this programmer, that programmer, and myself, and we could have done the whole job in six months [a manifestation of estimation error?], how is it with all those resources and all that money they had to give up?" I thought your entire analysis was right on except for one issue: scope creep. I think that some scope creep must be factored into original estimates. This is because I don't believe anyone can design any application of significance that won't show some design failures during real-world testing. I think initial specifications need to be viewed as general guidelines specifying desired functionality that are expected to evolve based on experience during testing. I recognize that undertaking a contract project makes it more necessary for specific specifications that when doing in-house development. In those instances I want the specifications as specific as possible; but the goal is to have a sound contractual basis when I come back and say "this and this are not in the original specs and will be billed separately". OTOH, I certainly suffer from the "let me just add this one new feature before I release this" syndrome. So I can see how this can get out of hand. Anyway, I tend to see scope creep as a natural result when people experience with the application design as implemented points out errors in judgement or approach, and as the users become more knowledgeable in computer capabilities & more involved in the design. It's the people who were not forthcoming during the initial design stage that always seem to complain the most when they see the final design. My guess is the leading cause of project failure--and this applies to small projects as well as large--is specification (communication?) failure between customer & analyst. After years of being told "this will never happen" and programming accordingly, only to later be told "I know we told you this would never happen, but..." (and that's from the "good" clients, the others say "No one here would ever have told you that...", and I write them off as long-term clients); after years of having someone spend hours drafting a sample report format & me spend some time programming it only to have them take one look at the output and "this isn't really what I want.."; after years of saying "I know there is a better way to do this, but that's how the specs read; so I'd better follow them..." only to later find myself down some dead end or otherwise having to implement the design I knew was right in the first place; and after other real-world experience of that ilk, I have come to see scope creep as the inevitable result of imperfections in the design process, and as a necessary part of the implementation of an application adjusted to accommodate the realities of user interaction. -- Rob Cozens CCW, Serendipity Software Company http://www.oenolog.com/who.htm "And I, which was two fooles, do so grow three; Who are a little wise, the best fooles bee." from "The Triple Foole" by John Donne (1572-1631) From michaell at unimelb.edu.au Mon Mar 25 16:29:01 2002 From: michaell at unimelb.edu.au (Michael J. Lew) Date: Mon Mar 25 16:29:01 2002 Subject: Tracking user exits and returns Message-ID: Thank you Shao Sean, that is exactly what I wanted. Jeanne, if you're reading, I spent a long time in the docs looking for this one without success. I tried the development guide, the dictionary and the troubleshooting section. I notice now that suspendStack is not listed in the 'see also' part of closeStack which is one of the many places I looked. Probably it should be, particularly as the obverse is true. While I'm on the docs (which I find to be generally very useful) I note that I sometimes choose the Dictionary from the Help menu and it takes me to the last-visited definition window rather than what I generally want, the window that lists the words and lets me filter them. Regards, -- Michael J. Lew Senior Lecturer Department of Pharmacology The University of Melbourne Parkville 3010 Victoria Australia Phone +613 8344 8304 ** New email address: michaell at unimelb.edu.au ** From rcozens at pon.net Mon Mar 25 17:35:01 2002 From: rcozens at pon.net (Rob Cozens) Date: Mon Mar 25 17:35:01 2002 Subject: Save with different extension In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: >>I can choose between the different types, but I have to manually >>write the extension to the filename to have the file associated to >>the application. >>Can that be done in the script? > >Hi Magnus, > >Look in the stack script for the Independent Study tutorial. Just >follow the tutorial and it will take you there. >-- BTW, don't thank me for this: I just realized the handlers I'm referring to are the ones I found not working correctly (on Mac Classic) when I did the tutorial. At last this is the way the folks at RunRev expect you to script it. :{`) -- Rob Cozens CCW, Serendipity Software Company http://www.oenolog.com/who.htm "And I, which was two fooles, do so grow three; Who are a little wise, the best fooles bee." from "The Triple Foole" by John Donne (1572-1631) -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From dsc at swcp.com Mon Mar 25 18:41:01 2002 From: dsc at swcp.com (Dar Scott) Date: Mon Mar 25 18:41:01 2002 Subject: OS X background pattern? Message-ID: How do I get the OS X background pattern? All I get is white. I tried selecting inherit. I tried selecting what looks like the right pattern from default patterns. On both the card and the stack. The button bar has it. The application window has it. My cards are envious. Dar Scott From karlpet at mac.com Mon Mar 25 18:51:01 2002 From: karlpet at mac.com (Karl Petersen) Date: Mon Mar 25 18:51:01 2002 Subject: Something strange in the tutorial "The Animation Manager" In-Reply-To: References: <3C93628B.B825805B@intermedia25.se> Message-ID: At 10:05 AM -0800 3/25/02, Rob Cozens wrote: >Welcome aboard Karl, Thanks, Rob. Good to be here. >What have you & the eagles been up to in the post-HyperCard era? Well it's Spring here, so we all know what the eagles have been up to. I'm keeping my eye on a young buck who hangs out atop a 100' cedar outside my office. As for me, I've been having a whole lot of fun sitting in an iMovie director's chair; the most fun I've had from Apple since the first days of HyperCard. But this thing I've been poking around in the last few days looks pretty interesting too. Glad to see some old faces here who can help me unwrap the package, if I need it. Karl -- ********************************************** * Karl Petersen * karlpet at mac.com * Watchin' the eagles on Bainbridge Island, WA ********************************************** From scott at tactilemedia.com Mon Mar 25 18:51:11 2002 From: scott at tactilemedia.com (Scott Rossi) Date: Mon Mar 25 18:51:11 2002 Subject: OS X background pattern? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Monday, March 25, 2002, at 03:35 PM, Dar Scott wrote: > How do I get the OS X background pattern? Only modal windows and dialogs have this appearance when the backPattern of the main stack is set to empty. If you want a toplevel stack to user to use this pattern, you'll have to use an image and set the backPattern of your topLevel stack to the ID of the image. Regards, Scott Rossi Creative Director, Tactile Media scott at tactilemedia.com http://www.tactilemedia.com From dsc at swcp.com Mon Mar 25 19:03:01 2002 From: dsc at swcp.com (Dar Scott) Date: Mon Mar 25 19:03:01 2002 Subject: OS X background pattern? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <14121A1A-404C-11D6-BEF8-0050E4C0B205@swcp.com> On Monday, March 25, 2002, at 04:49 PM, Scott Rossi wrote: >> How do I get the OS X background pattern? > > Only modal windows and dialogs have this appearance when the > backPattern of the main stack is set to empty. If you want a > toplevel stack to user to use this pattern, you'll have to use an > image and set the backPattern of your topLevel stack to the ID of > the image. Sounds like what I was trying was not good OS X style. Dar Scott From drvaughan55 at mac.com Mon Mar 25 20:45:01 2002 From: drvaughan55 at mac.com (David Vaughan) Date: Mon Mar 25 20:45:01 2002 Subject: Why Projects Fail In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Tuesday, March 26, 2002, at 06:13 , Rob Cozens wrote: >> Most failing projects I encounter have problems not with tools or >> coding as such but with: >> - initial and continuing specification failure by the customer and >> analyst >> - estimation error or unrealistic deadlines, with feeble risk >> management [words highlighted in bright red] >> - scope creep [words highlighted in red with clashing cymbals] both in >> its natural form and feeding hungrily on the first two. > > David, snip > I think that some scope creep must be factored into original > estimates. This is because I don't believe anyone can design any > application of significance that won't show some design failures during > real-world testing. I think initial specifications need to be viewed > as general guidelines specifying desired functionality that are > expected to evolve based on experience during testing. snip > Anyway, I tend to see scope creep as a natural result when people > experience with the application design as implemented points out errors > in judgement or approach, and as the users become more knowledgeable in > computer capabilities & more involved in the design. snip Rob Any large project has (and even small projects should have) an explicit risk budget - money included in the customer price but not allocated to any task. It is there for the problems you know from experience will arise from somewhere but can not yet specifically identify. The earlier resort, after polite clarification, is unyielding adherence to change management process. Where that process allocates the task to you, then you use risk money and hope you have not already dissipated it owing to estimation error. This is part of where risk management comes in. Since this money is in your price, it raises your price, so poor estimation (of risk as well as the base task) can lose you the job in one direction or set you up for later failure in the other. Another common error is spending the risk money too late; dribbling it out ineffectively, but I'm getting beyond a simplified discussion so I'll stop. > My guess is the leading cause of project failure--and this applies to > small projects as well as large--is specification (communication?) > failure between customer & analyst. snip I sympathise with the point but as you said in the second paragraph I retained above, you just can not realistically achieve it. A multiple-cycle prototype and sign-off with re-estimation of further work is the most efficient way forward except that the customer will view you as laying all risk on them with no end to the budget, and want you to fix your price. It's a tension. regards David > -- > Rob Cozens > CCW, Serendipity Software Company > http://www.oenolog.com/who.htm > = > "And I, which was two fooles, do so grow three; > Who are a little wise, the best fooles bee." > > from "The Triple Foole" by John Donne (1572-1631) > _______________________________________________ > use-revolution mailing list > use-revolution at lists.runrev.com > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution > From shaosean at unitz.ca Tue Mar 26 00:39:01 2002 From: shaosean at unitz.ca (Shao Sean) Date: Tue Mar 26 00:39:01 2002 Subject: Tracking user exits and returns References: Message-ID: <000b01c1d487$e0aaadc0$88b15bd1@lanfear> > Thank you Shao Sean, that is exactly what I wanted. not a prob > Jeanne, if you're reading, I spent a long time in the docs looking same here.. i didn't filter and actually went through the full dictionary to find it (plus i found some other cool ones that i thought i'd have to write by hand "md5digest" for example) From sarahr at genesearch.com.au Tue Mar 26 02:01:01 2002 From: sarahr at genesearch.com.au (Sarah Reichelt) Date: Tue Mar 26 02:01:01 2002 Subject: Focus color Message-ID: <04E03BBE-4087-11D6-935B-00306566C7B4@genesearch.com.au> How do I set the focus color for a field? I have tried going to the color palette for both the stack & the field but no change to focus color seems to have any affect. Although the default focus color is show as black, I always get a mid-range grey no matter what I do. I have traversalOn set as instructed in the docs. Also, under Mac OS X, the accentColor is not set to the system's accent color. I think this worked under OS 9 but not OS X. TIA, Sarah From shaosean at unitz.ca Tue Mar 26 02:42:01 2002 From: shaosean at unitz.ca (Shao Sean) Date: Tue Mar 26 02:42:01 2002 Subject: [Q] vCard reader/writer Message-ID: <003401c1d499$1e9c5050$88b15bd1@lanfear> Just feeling around to see if there's a need (or want) for a vCard reader/writer module for RunRev/MC Please reply to me off-list if you would be interested in testing. From jeanne at runrev.com Tue Mar 26 03:36:44 2002 From: jeanne at runrev.com (Jeanne A. E. DeVoto) Date: Tue Mar 26 03:36:44 2002 Subject: Tracking user exits and returns In-Reply-To: Message-ID: At 1:27 PM -0800 3/25/2002, Michael J. Lew wrote: >Jeanne, if you're reading, I spent a long time in the docs looking >for this one without success. I tried the development guide, the >dictionary and the troubleshooting section. I notice now that >suspendStack is not listed in the 'see also' part of closeStack >which is one of the many places I looked. Probably it should be, >particularly as the obverse is true. The cross-reference is in there now, actually (that is, in my working copy which is going into 1.1.1 final). I think this came up a week or two ago and I added some additional cross-references then. >While I'm on the docs (which I >find to be generally very useful) I note that I sometimes choose the >Dictionary from the Help menu and it takes me to the last-visited >definition window rather than what I generally want, the window that >lists the words and lets me filter them. I think we've had one other request for this as well. The advantage though to having the "Transcript Dictionary" menu item bring up the Dictionary itself is that it's a bit faster if you want "one-stop shopping" (so to speak): you can just type in the name of the term you want and up it comes, without needing to open another window or go through the Dictionary page in the main docs. You also can set the checkbox at the bottom of the docs window if you use the Dictionary page most - that way the Help key combos bring you straight to the Dictionary page and you can just start typing to scroll/filter. -- Jeanne A. E. DeVoto ~ jeanne at runrev.com http://www.runrev.com/ Runtime Revolution Limited - Power to the Developer! From Frank.Barlow at ICL.com Tue Mar 26 04:28:01 2002 From: Frank.Barlow at ICL.com (Barlow Frank) Date: Tue Mar 26 04:28:01 2002 Subject: Why Projects Fail Message-ID: <9B7B6E6E6C76D311AAE10090272405B5019C6701@WWMESSD114> I have used the DSDM (Dynamic Systems Development Method). The method helps with some of the problems reported in this topic. I am willing to pass on some notes, off-line, on request; or try www.dsdm.com Frank frank at adsum.org -----Original Message----- From: Rob Cozens [mailto:rcozens at pon.net] Sent: 25 March 2002 19:13 To: use-revolution at lists.runrev.com Subject: Re: Why Projects Fail >Most failing projects I encounter have problems not with tools or >coding as such but with: >- initial and continuing specification failure by the customer and analyst >- estimation error or unrealistic deadlines, with feeble risk >management [words highlighted in bright red] >- scope creep [words highlighted in red with clashing cymbals] both >in its natural form and feeding hungrily on the first two. From kspieldenner at lifetouch.com Tue Mar 26 04:54:00 2002 From: kspieldenner at lifetouch.com (KEITH SPIELDENNER) Date: Tue Mar 26 04:54:00 2002 Subject: Sorting contents of variables Message-ID: I am trying to sort the contents of a variable by line using the second word of each line. The following returns an "error sorting" message: sort gHold by word 2 of each However, if I use the same code to sort the contents of a field everything works fine (for example: sort fld newInfo by word 2 of each). Any explanations, or other suggestions for how I can sort the contents of a variable by other than the leading characters? Thanks for the help. Keith Spieldenner From kmajor at metascape.org Tue Mar 26 05:09:01 2002 From: kmajor at metascape.org (Klaus Major) Date: Tue Mar 26 05:09:01 2002 Subject: Sorting contents of variables In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <32AE3254-40A1-11D6-B902-003065D52E8E@metascape.org> Hi Keith, > I am trying to sort the contents of a variable by line using the second > word > of each line. The following returns an "error sorting" message: > > sort gHold by word 2 of each > > However, if I use the same code to sort the contents of a field > everything > works fine (for example: sort fld newInfo by word 2 of each). > > Any explanations, or other suggestions for how I can sort the contents > of a > variable by other than the leading characters? > > Thanks for the help. > > Keith Spieldenner try: sort lines of gHold by word 2 to of each Should do the trick ;-) At least it did here... Regards Klaus Major kmajor at metascape.org From davidleefish at mac.com Tue Mar 26 06:32:01 2002 From: davidleefish at mac.com (David Lee Fish) Date: Tue Mar 26 06:32:01 2002 Subject: Using 2-bit Fonts Message-ID: I'm building a Japanese language study application and am having problems with the fields containing Japanese 2-bit fonts. When the contents of a field are in something like Palatino or Helvetica, everything works fine but of course the Japanese looks like nonsense. When I set the same field and its contents to a Japanese font, like Osaka, the text appears correctly, but line breaks become wacky, I can't edit the contents of the field, and clicktext and clickchunk return the entire line. What's up? Is there a fix? Help would be greatly appreciated. Thanks. From difish at shizuokanet.ne.jp Tue Mar 26 09:13:01 2002 From: difish at shizuokanet.ne.jp (David Fish) Date: Tue Mar 26 09:13:01 2002 Subject: 2-bit fonts Message-ID: I'm building a Japanese language study application and am having problems with the fields containing Japanese 2-bit fonts. When the contents of a field are in something like Palatino or Helvetica, everything works fine but of course the Japanese looks like nonsense. When I set the same field and its contents to a Japanese font, like Osaka, the text appears correctly, but line breaks become wacky, I can't edit the contents of the field, and clicktext and clickchunk return the entire line. What's up? Is there a fix? Help would be greatly appreciated. Thanks. From wow at together.net Tue Mar 26 09:55:01 2002 From: wow at together.net (Richard D. Miller) Date: Tue Mar 26 09:55:01 2002 Subject: Is there a new Windows engine? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: It seems there are new build engines for Mac OS PPC and OSX, but I can't find one for Windows. Has one been released? In creating the latest build of our project, we used the engines that came with the new beta111 postings. When we did a build, it needed to download the windows engine. It appears it downloaded and used the older Windows engine. Is a newer one not available yet? Thanks. -- Richard Miller The Wood Exchange.info http://www.thewoodexchange.info 802-238-5355 802-951-2534 fax From rcozens at pon.net Tue Mar 26 11:27:01 2002 From: rcozens at pon.net (Rob Cozens) Date: Tue Mar 26 11:27:01 2002 Subject: Is there a new Windows engine? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: >It seems there are new build engines for Mac OS PPC and OSX, but I can't >find one for Windows. Has one been released? Hi Richard, Kevin posted this a few days ago: >Following on from my recent post regarding the Mac, Windows is now up at: > >http://www.runrev.com/revolution/engines11/beta111/revolution.exe -- Rob Cozens CCW, Serendipity Software Company http://www.oenolog.com/who.htm "And I, which was two fooles, do so grow three; Who are a little wise, the best fooles bee." from "The Triple Foole" by John Donne (1572-1631) From scott at tactilemedia.com Tue Mar 26 12:22:01 2002 From: scott at tactilemedia.com (Scott Rossi) Date: Tue Mar 26 12:22:01 2002 Subject: Using 2-bit Fonts In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Recently, David Lee Fish wrote: > I'm building a Japanese language study application and am having problems > with the fields containing Japanese 2-bit fonts. > > When the contents of a field are in something like Palatino or Helvetica, > everything works fine but of course the Japanese looks like nonsense. > > When I set the same field and its contents to a Japanese font, like Osaka, > the text appears correctly, but line breaks become wacky, I can't edit the > contents of the field, and clicktext and clickchunk return the entire line. > > What's up? Unfortunately, there are some limitations with double byte character fonts in MC/REV: 1) They can't be input reliably, only displayed 2) They must be manually wrapped using spaces as line breaks Regards, Scott Rossi Creative Director Tactile Media, Multimedia & Design Email: scott at tactilemedia.com Web: www.tactilemedia.com From wow at together.net Tue Mar 26 14:14:01 2002 From: wow at together.net (Richard D. Miller) Date: Tue Mar 26 14:14:01 2002 Subject: Is there a new Windows engine? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: I couldn't find a new build engine in that release...only new development engines. I don't believe one has been posted yet, but perhaps Kevin can explain. Richard >> It seems there are new build engines for Mac OS PPC and OSX, but I can't >> find one for Windows. Has one been released? > > Hi Richard, > > Kevin posted this a few days ago: > >> Following on from my recent post regarding the Mac, Windows is now up at: >> >> http://www.runrev.com/revolution/engines11/beta111/revolution.exe > From dsc at swcp.com Tue Mar 26 15:07:01 2002 From: dsc at swcp.com (Dar Scott) Date: Tue Mar 26 15:07:01 2002 Subject: Getting the command line Message-ID: <4E7E6148-40F4-11D6-8305-0050E4C0B205@swcp.com> Can a rev standalone app get the command line? I don't mean specify one in shell or "open process", I mean get the command line for itself. Dar From BradAllen at mac.com Tue Mar 26 15:44:01 2002 From: BradAllen at mac.com (Brad Allen) Date: Tue Mar 26 15:44:01 2002 Subject: choose regular polygon Message-ID: I see that you can "choose regular polygon tool" in Transcript, but how do you specify the number of sides to the polygon from a script? Thanks... -- From k_major at osnabrueck.netsurf.de Tue Mar 26 17:21:01 2002 From: k_major at osnabrueck.netsurf.de (Klaus Major) Date: Tue Mar 26 17:21:01 2002 Subject: choose regular polygon In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <9B7E495A-4107-11D6-8D89-000A27B49A96@osnabrueck.netsurf.de> Hi Brad, > I see that you can "choose regular polygon tool" in Transcript, but how > do you specify the number of sides to the polygon from a script? > > Thanks... ... set the polysides to 3 ## or more, but not less ;-) choose regular polygon tool ... That's it... Regards Klaus Major k_major at osnabrueck.netsurf.de From kray at sonsothunder.com Tue Mar 26 17:31:00 2002 From: kray at sonsothunder.com (Ken Ray) Date: Tue Mar 26 17:31:00 2002 Subject: choose regular polygon References: Message-ID: <007a01c1d515$601ae790$6700a8c0@mckinley.dom> Brad, You "set the polysides" before you choose the regular polygon tool: set the polySides to 3 choose regular polygon tool ... The next thing drawn will be a triangle. Ken Ray Sons of Thunder Software Email: kray at sonsothunder.com Web site: http://www.sonsothunder.com/ ----- Original Message ----- From: "Brad Allen" To: Sent: Tuesday, March 26, 2002 2:42 PM Subject: choose regular polygon > I see that you can "choose regular polygon tool" in Transcript, but > how do you specify the number of sides to the polygon from a script? > > Thanks... > -- > _______________________________________________ > use-revolution mailing list > use-revolution at lists.runrev.com > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution > From dsc at swcp.com Tue Mar 26 19:00:01 2002 From: dsc at swcp.com (Dar Scott) Date: Tue Mar 26 19:00:01 2002 Subject: Revolution vs. Java? Revolution vs. LabView? Message-ID: I'm looking for comparisons of Revolution (or Metacard) vs. Java and Revolution vs. LabView. Dar Scott From bvlahos at jpl.nasa.gov Tue Mar 26 19:37:01 2002 From: bvlahos at jpl.nasa.gov (Bill Vlahos) Date: Tue Mar 26 19:37:01 2002 Subject: Linux PDAs and Revolution Message-ID: <949B8BEC-411A-11D6-A143-003065EC5590@jpl.nasa.gov> There are beginning to come to market linux based PDAs. Since Revolution supports linux deployment, can a standalone application work with these? The only feedback that I've heard about them is that they seem to be pretty slow. However, I have not actually seen them yet. Bill Vlahos From drvaughan55 at mac.com Tue Mar 26 19:41:01 2002 From: drvaughan55 at mac.com (David Vaughan) Date: Tue Mar 26 19:41:01 2002 Subject: Revolution vs. Java? Revolution vs. LabView? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <3B777D50-411B-11D6-A523-000393598038@mac.com> Dar I use Revolution and my son uses Java. If you could summarise what you want to know, what aspects are important, we could each offer a proponent's view of the languages on those aspects rather than the usual perspective of just a single bias. cheers David On Wednesday, March 27, 2002, at 10:54 , Dar Scott wrote: > I'm looking for comparisons of Revolution (or Metacard) vs. Java and > Revolution vs. LabView. > > Dar Scott > > _______________________________________________ > use-revolution mailing list > use-revolution at lists.runrev.com > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution > From BradAllen at mac.com Tue Mar 26 20:32:07 2002 From: BradAllen at mac.com (Brad Allen) Date: Tue Mar 26 20:32:07 2002 Subject: choose regular polygon In-Reply-To: <9B7E495A-4107-11D6-8D89-000A27B49A96@osnabrueck.netsurf.de> References: <9B7E495A-4107-11D6-8D89-000A27B49A96@osnabrueck.netsurf.de> Message-ID: Thanks! Just what I was looking for (for some reason I didn't find it the first time in the Transcript dictionary...I kept looking under "See Also" under "Choose" and other tool-related keywords.) >Hi Brad, > >>I see that you can "choose regular polygon tool" in Transcript, but >>how do you specify the number of sides to the polygon from a script? >> >>Thanks... > >... >set the polysides to 3 ## or more, but not less ;-) >choose regular polygon tool >... > >That's it... > > >Regards > >Klaus Major >k_major at osnabrueck.netsurf.de > >_______________________________________________ >use-revolution mailing list >use-revolution at lists.runrev.com >http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution -- From bvlahos at mac.com Wed Mar 27 04:08:01 2002 From: bvlahos at mac.com (Bill Vlahos) Date: Wed Mar 27 04:08:01 2002 Subject: Linux PDAs and Revolution Message-ID: <10A6566F-4119-11D6-A143-003065EC5590@mac.com> There are beginning to come to market linux based PDAs. Since Revolution supports linux deployment, can a standalone application work with these? The only feedback that I've heard about them is that they seem to be pretty slow. However, I have not actually seen them yet. Bill Vlahos From benr_mc at cogapp.com Wed Mar 27 05:12:01 2002 From: benr_mc at cogapp.com (Ben Rubinstein) Date: Wed Mar 27 05:12:01 2002 Subject: Getting the command line In-Reply-To: <4E7E6148-40F4-11D6-8305-0050E4C0B205@swcp.com> Message-ID: on 26/3/02 8:01 PM, Dar Scott at dsc at swcp.com wrote: > Can a rev standalone app get the command line? > > I don't mean specify one in shell or "open process", I mean get the > command line for itself. Depending whether you want Windows or Unix, follow the mighty dollar... If Windows, I think you'll find what you want in a set of global variables $0...$n. Not sure where you'd find this in the documentation though (I'm not saying it's not there - just that I couldn't find it looking in reasonable places to answer this question, and still couldn't find it when I was looking for the answer that I thought I knew). I think a reasonable place to look would be Development Guide/The System Environment/How to... If Unix: You can access Unix environment variables by prepending the $ character to the environment variable?s name. For example, the following statement gets the contents of the LOGNAME environment variable: get $LOGNAME I found this text in About/containers, variables and sources of value; I think if those are mentioned, it would be reasonable to mention the DOS ones in the same place. Ben Rubinstein | Email: benr_mc at cogapp.com Cognitive Applications Ltd | Phone: +44 (0)1273-821600 http://www.cogapp.com | Fax : +44 (0)1273-728866 From jeanne at runrev.com Wed Mar 27 06:26:01 2002 From: jeanne at runrev.com (Jeanne A. E. DeVoto) Date: Wed Mar 27 06:26:01 2002 Subject: Getting the command line In-Reply-To: <4E7E6148-40F4-11D6-8305-0050E4C0B205@swcp.com> Message-ID: At 12:01 PM -0800 3/26/2002, Dar Scott wrote: >Can a rev standalone app get the command line? > >I don't mean specify one in shell or "open process", I mean get the >command line for itself. If you launched the app via the command line, the command-line parameters are avaiable as the special variables $0, $1, and so on. -- Jeanne A. E. DeVoto ~ jeanne at runrev.com http://www.runrev.com/ Runtime Revolution Limited - Power to the Developer! From Doug_Ivers at lord.com Wed Mar 27 09:00:00 2002 From: Doug_Ivers at lord.com (Ivers, Doug E) Date: Wed Mar 27 09:00:00 2002 Subject: hierarchical menus Message-ID: <6150F6099DBED111852E0008C7241464049B374E@NTSRV-CRD04> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From preid at reidit.co.uk Wed Mar 27 10:37:00 2002 From: preid at reidit.co.uk (Peter Reid) Date: Wed Mar 27 10:37:00 2002 Subject: Comparisons with Flash MX? Message-ID: Has anyone had a good look at what Flash MX is offering by comparison to Rev? Some of my customers are starting to mutter about "cross-platform" applications written in Flash MX. It would be nice to know the relative strengths and weaknesses of Flash MX vs Rev so I can have sensible discussions with such customers! Clearly one continuing hole in Rev's considerable armoury is the lack of a browser plug-in version that allows us to deliver browser screen hosted apps, but are there other factors that make it easy to argue for/against Flash MX/Rev? Cheers Peter -- Peter Reid Reid-IT Limited, Loughborough, Leics., UK Tel: +44 (0)1509 268843 Fax: +44 (0)870 052 7576 E-mail: preid at reidit.co.uk Web: http://www.reidit.co.uk From webmaster at studioalice.se Wed Mar 27 10:40:01 2002 From: webmaster at studioalice.se (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Magnus_von_Br=F6msen?=) Date: Wed Mar 27 10:40:01 2002 Subject: Sending mail on Windows? Message-ID: <8E7803D2-4198-11D6-B076-003065CCBD1A@studioalice.se> Hello Om macintosh you can use: revGoURL "mailto:webmaster at studioalice.se" But, how do you do it on Windows? In the Transcript Dictionary it says that "mailto" is mac-only. (Mr. Cozens, thanks for the tip about file extension.) /magnus von br?msen -------------------------------------------------------------------------- "Man skall inte ropa hej f?rr?n pc'n ?r skjuten" -------------------------------------------------------------------------- Studio Alice Magnus von Br?msen 0702-212 495 0322-633 833 www.studioalice.se From webmaster at studioalice.se Wed Mar 27 10:51:03 2002 From: webmaster at studioalice.se (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Magnus_von_Br=F6msen?=) Date: Wed Mar 27 10:51:03 2002 Subject: Launch another application? Message-ID: <2631093A-419A-11D6-B076-003065CCBD1A@studioalice.se> Hello I want to start Excel from a button in a standalone on Windows. (I know that this has been an issue before,) but I have tried every possible solution: on mouseUp launch "Acrobat Reader 5.0" end mouseUp on mouseUp open process "Acrobat Reader 5.0" for neither end mouseUp and the tip from Ken Ray: > on mouseUp > set the hideConsoleWindows to true > get shell("C:\myfile.pdf") > answer "Thank you!" > end mouseUp > But nothing seems to work. Every help will be very nice. /magnus ------------------------------------------------------------------- "Br?nt barn skyr Windows." ------------------------------------------------------------------- Studio Alice Magnus von Br?msen 0702-212 495 0322-633 833 www.studioalice.se From kray at sonsothunder.com Wed Mar 27 10:58:01 2002 From: kray at sonsothunder.com (Ken Ray) Date: Wed Mar 27 10:58:01 2002 Subject: Sending mail on Windows? References: <8E7803D2-4198-11D6-B076-003065CCBD1A@studioalice.se> Message-ID: <001001c1d5a7$a3c1db10$7c00a8c0@mckinley.dom> Magnus, Here's the code I use (the Windows part): on SendMail tMailTo put queryRegistry("HKEY_CLASSES_ROOT\mailto\shell\open\command\" into tMailApp if tMailApp = "" then exit SendMail if (quote & "%1" & quote is in tMailApp then replace quote & "%1" & quote with tMailTo in tMailApp if "%1" is in tMailApp then replace %1 with tMailTo in tMailApp open process tMailApp for neither end SendMail Called by something like: on mouseUp SendMail "ken at sonsothunder.com" end mouseUp The funky "%1" situations are based on experience. Sometimes the registry key will just have an Application, like: "c:\program files\myMailApp\myMailApp.exe" Other times it will be quoted, like: "c:\program files\my mail app\myMailApp.exe" "%1" And occasionally like this: "c:\program files\my mail app\my MailApp.exe %1" This code takes care of all those situations. Ken Ray Sons of Thunder Software Email: kray at sonsothunder.com Web Site: http://www.sonsothunder.com/ ----- Original Message ----- From: "Magnus von Br?msen" To: Sent: Wednesday, March 27, 2002 9:37 AM Subject: Sending mail on Windows? > Hello > > Om macintosh you can use: > revGoURL "mailto:webmaster at studioalice.se" > > But, how do you do it on Windows? In the Transcript Dictionary it says > that "mailto" is mac-only. > > (Mr. Cozens, thanks for the tip about file extension.) > > /magnus von br?msen > > > -------------------------------------------------------------------------- > "Man skall inte ropa hej f?rr?n pc'n ?r skjuten" > -------------------------------------------------------------------------- > Studio Alice > Magnus von Br?msen > 0702-212 495 > 0322-633 833 > www.studioalice.se > > _______________________________________________ > use-revolution mailing list > use-revolution at lists.runrev.com > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution > From troy at rpsystems.net Wed Mar 27 11:03:01 2002 From: troy at rpsystems.net (Troy Rollins) Date: Wed Mar 27 11:03:01 2002 Subject: Comparisons with Flash MX? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Wednesday, March 27, 2002, at 10:35 AM, Peter Reid wrote: > Has anyone had a good look at what Flash MX is offering by comparison > to Rev? Some of my customers are starting to mutter about > "cross-platform" applications written in Flash MX. It would be nice to > know the relative strengths and weaknesses of Flash MX vs Rev so I can > have sensible discussions with such customers! MX is very weak when it comes to system level operations and use and/or management of local files. It has no ability to "talk" with hardware. Of course, it is useful for "Flashy" little presentations and "interactives" - but NOT "programs". It also continues to suffer from file size limitations. After 4-5 meg ... it's done. Basically MX is Flash 5 with some fundamental productivity enhancements (which should have existed all along.) MX is now a better tool than Flash was. It certainly does not compete with Rev for overall power. The two applications are on different planes. Rev builds applications. MX builds "interactives". Both Director and iShell still build more powerful interactives (bordering on applications) than MX does. At my shop, we use Rev, MX, and iShell - depending on the project requirements. HTH -- Troy RPSystems www.rpsystems.net From preid at reidit.co.uk Wed Mar 27 11:27:00 2002 From: preid at reidit.co.uk (Peter Reid) Date: Wed Mar 27 11:27:00 2002 Subject: Comparisons with Flash MX? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Thanks for the feedback Troy, could I just ask for a bit more detail: >MX is very weak when it comes to system level operations and use >and/or management of local files. It has no ability to "talk" with >hardware. I haven't got MX yet (my upgrade is in the post!) but one of my customers reckons he can save local data on a client machine, not just return it to a server? Does this ring true with you? >Of course, it is useful for "Flashy" little presentations and >"interactives" - but NOT "programs". I know, I HATE all those Web sites dripping with useless Flash "presentations"! >It also continues to suffer from file size limitations. After 4-5 >meg ... it's done. In what way is 4-5 meg a limit - you can't make files larger or they simply don't work?? >Basically MX is Flash 5 with some fundamental productivity >enhancements (which should have existed all along.) > >MX is now a better tool than Flash was. It certainly does not >compete with Rev for overall power. The two applications are on >different planes. Rev builds applications. MX builds "interactives". >Both Director and iShell still build more powerful interactives >(bordering on applications) than MX does. > >At my shop, we use Rev, MX, and iShell - depending on the project >requirements. I've only used Flash 4 for animations as part of CBT packages (NOT for Web sites!) and not used the scripting side at all. I tend to use Rev (or MetaCard in the past) for most other things. My client is looking to develop web-based information capture and advice using anything from desktops, to laptops and PDAs as the client. He had been considering Java, but has been tempted by Flash MX. He thinks it will provide a richly interactive front end for his data capture (into back end databases using XML etc.) and for displaying his advisor information, all from inside a browser window. Any additional comments/thoughts? Cheers Peter -- Peter Reid Reid-IT Limited, Loughborough, Leics., UK Tel: +44 (0)1509 268843 Fax: +44 (0)870 052 7576 E-mail: preid at reidit.co.uk Web: http://www.reidit.co.uk From benr_mc at cogapp.com Wed Mar 27 12:08:01 2002 From: benr_mc at cogapp.com (Ben Rubinstein) Date: Wed Mar 27 12:08:01 2002 Subject: Evaluating Valentina in Rev Message-ID: Can anyone give me some pointers towards using Valentina in Revolution (given that I've not used Valentina at all in any other form)? I thought I'd seen an item about what was now bundled with the currentversion - but I can't now track it down. Help, suggestions, pointers all gratefully received. TIA Ben Rubinstein | Email: benr_mc at cogapp.com Cognitive Applications Ltd | Phone: +44 (0)1273-821600 http://www.cogapp.com | Fax : +44 (0)1273-728866 From rcozens at pon.net Wed Mar 27 12:09:01 2002 From: rcozens at pon.net (Rob Cozens) Date: Wed Mar 27 12:09:01 2002 Subject: Why Projects Fail In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: >A multiple-cycle prototype and sign-off with re-estimation of >further work is the most efficient way forward except that the >customer will view you as laying all risk on them with no end to the >budget, and want you to fix your price. It's a tension. David, et al, Absolutely! Which is why I give special treatment, and significantly lower rates, to clients who engage my services on a time-and-materials basis. There is very little tension working in a trusting, long term relationship with clients who call and say, "This is what I need. This is when it's needed. Send me your bill when it's finished." -- Rob Cozens CCW, Serendipity Software Company http://www.oenolog.com/who.htm "And I, which was two fooles, do so grow three; Who are a little wise, the best fooles bee." from "The Triple Foole" by John Donne (1572-1631) From rcozens at pon.net Wed Mar 27 12:09:15 2002 From: rcozens at pon.net (Rob Cozens) Date: Wed Mar 27 12:09:15 2002 Subject: Why Projects Fail In-Reply-To: <3BDD4C31-3F81-11D6-90C2-000393598038@mac.com> References: <3BDD4C31-3F81-11D6-90C2-000393598038@mac.com> Message-ID: >>3. For moi personally, the goal is to enable direct system calls from Xtalk. >Can we do this by any other means? You are familiar with CompileIt!. David, Looks like we've come full circle to my post of 22 Feb, which ended, "I would be willing to pay a separate license fee for a tool that would allow me to create externals scripted in Transcript." I'd accept (and pay for) that. Does anyone know Tom Pittman well enough to ask him if he would consider rewriting CompileIt! for MetaCard? -- Rob Cozens CCW, Serendipity Software Company http://www.oenolog.com/who.htm "And I, which was two fooles, do so grow three; Who are a little wise, the best fooles bee." from "The Triple Foole" by John Donne (1572-1631) From rcozens at pon.net Wed Mar 27 12:19:01 2002 From: rcozens at pon.net (Rob Cozens) Date: Wed Mar 27 12:19:01 2002 Subject: Sending mail on Windows? In-Reply-To: <8E7803D2-4198-11D6-B076-003065CCBD1A@studioalice.se> References: <8E7803D2-4198-11D6-B076-003065CCBD1A@studioalice.se> Message-ID: >(Mr. Cozens, thanks for the tip about file extension.) Magnus, I hope you picked up on my second note that the handlers were not working correctly for me...and please call me Rob (or "you damned foole" in cases where it is more appropriate). :{`) -- Rob Cozens CCW, Serendipity Software Company http://www.oenolog.com/who.htm "And I, which was two fooles, do so grow three; Who are a little wise, the best fooles bee." from "The Triple Foole" by John Donne (1572-1631) From k_major at osnabrueck.netsurf.de Wed Mar 27 12:21:00 2002 From: k_major at osnabrueck.netsurf.de (Klaus Major) Date: Wed Mar 27 12:21:00 2002 Subject: Launch another application? In-Reply-To: <2631093A-419A-11D6-B076-003065CCBD1A@studioalice.se> Message-ID: Dag Magnus, > Hello > > I want to start Excel from a button in a standalone on Windows. (I know > that this has been an issue before,) but I have tried every possible > solution: > > on mouseUp > launch "Acrobat Reader 5.0" > end mouseUp > > on mouseUp > open process "Acrobat Reader 5.0" for neither > end mouseUp > > and the tip from Ken Ray: > >> on mouseUp >> set the hideConsoleWindows to true >> get shell("C:\myfile.pdf") >> answer "Thank you!" >> end mouseUp >> > But nothing seems to work. Every help will be very nice. > > /magnus It should work, but you have to supply the full path to the app. launch "C:/Program Files/Acrobat Reader 5.0.exe" ## Do not forget the suffix Hope this helps... Regards Klaus Major k_major at osnabrueck.netsurf.de From kray at sonsothunder.com Wed Mar 27 12:32:01 2002 From: kray at sonsothunder.com (Ken Ray) Date: Wed Mar 27 12:32:01 2002 Subject: Comparisons with Flash MX? References: Message-ID: <003a01c1d5b4$cff27ed0$7c00a8c0@mckinley.dom> Peter, Not to sway anyone from Rev, but the promise of MX is the ability to run on all platforms (including PDAs). There is already support for Flash 5 on the latest crop of Pocket PCs, and I know they either currently have or will have soon an MX player for Pocket PCs. As soon as Rev can run as a web plugin and on a PDA, we don't need Flash anymore... ;-) Ken Ray Sons of Thunder Software Email: kray at sonsothunder.com Web Site: http://www.sonsothunder.com/ ----- Original Message ----- From: "Peter Reid" To: Sent: Wednesday, March 27, 2002 10:25 AM Subject: Re: Comparisons with Flash MX? > Thanks for the feedback Troy, could I just ask for a bit more detail: > > >MX is very weak when it comes to system level operations and use > >and/or management of local files. It has no ability to "talk" with > >hardware. > > I haven't got MX yet (my upgrade is in the post!) but one of my > customers reckons he can save local data on a client machine, not > just return it to a server? Does this ring true with you? > > >Of course, it is useful for "Flashy" little presentations and > >"interactives" - but NOT "programs". > > I know, I HATE all those Web sites dripping with useless Flash "presentations"! > > >It also continues to suffer from file size limitations. After 4-5 > >meg ... it's done. > > In what way is 4-5 meg a limit - you can't make files larger or they > simply don't work?? > > >Basically MX is Flash 5 with some fundamental productivity > >enhancements (which should have existed all along.) > > > >MX is now a better tool than Flash was. It certainly does not > >compete with Rev for overall power. The two applications are on > >different planes. Rev builds applications. MX builds "interactives". > >Both Director and iShell still build more powerful interactives > >(bordering on applications) than MX does. > > > >At my shop, we use Rev, MX, and iShell - depending on the project > >requirements. > > I've only used Flash 4 for animations as part of CBT packages (NOT > for Web sites!) and not used the scripting side at all. I tend to > use Rev (or MetaCard in the past) for most other things. > > My client is looking to develop web-based information capture and > advice using anything from desktops, to laptops and PDAs as the > client. He had been considering Java, but has been tempted by Flash > MX. He thinks it will provide a richly interactive front end for his > data capture (into back end databases using XML etc.) and for > displaying his advisor information, all from inside a browser window. > > Any additional comments/thoughts? > > Cheers > > Peter > -- > Peter Reid > Reid-IT Limited, Loughborough, Leics., UK > Tel: +44 (0)1509 268843 Fax: +44 (0)870 052 7576 > E-mail: preid at reidit.co.uk > Web: http://www.reidit.co.uk > _______________________________________________ > use-revolution mailing list > use-revolution at lists.runrev.com > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution > From yvescoppe at skynet.be Wed Mar 27 12:40:01 2002 From: yvescoppe at skynet.be (yves COPPE) Date: Wed Mar 27 12:40:01 2002 Subject: hierarchical menus In-Reply-To: <6150F6099DBED111852E0008C7241464049B374E@NTSRV-CRD04> References: <6150F6099DBED111852E0008C7241464049B374E@NTSRV-CRD04> Message-ID: >Can the menu manager be used to create hierarchical menus? I saw an >earlier message on this, but it still doesn't seem to work in 1.1.1 >final. > >I'm looking for an example stack in which hierarchical or cascading >menus are used. In particular, I want to have a menubar with a >Preferences menu under which is a Font menuitem under which is a >list of the available fonts. > >Anyone know of an existing example? (I haven't looked through all >the user contribution stacks for this.) Surely this is not uncommon. > > >-- D > >_______________________________________________ use-revolution >mailing list use-revolution at lists.runrev.com >http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution Surely the hierarchical menu can be set with the use of the tab Key -- Greetings. Yves COPPE Email : yvescoppe at skynet.be -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From dsc at swcp.com Wed Mar 27 13:26:00 2002 From: dsc at swcp.com (Dar Scott) Date: Wed Mar 27 13:26:00 2002 Subject: hierarchical menus In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <5A67C6A8-41AF-11D6-B149-0050E4C0B205@swcp.com> On Wednesday, March 27, 2002, at 10:36 AM, yves COPPE wrote: > Surely > the hierarchical menu can be set with the use of the tab Key > I can't type that in the properties field. OS X; Revolution 1.1.1 B2. Dar From kray at sonsothunder.com Wed Mar 27 13:27:00 2002 From: kray at sonsothunder.com (Ken Ray) Date: Wed Mar 27 13:27:00 2002 Subject: Launch another application? References: <2631093A-419A-11D6-B076-003065CCBD1A@studioalice.se> Message-ID: <005001c1d5bc$8168c6e0$7c00a8c0@mckinley.dom> Magnus, If you're trying to launch Excel, the code below won't work... it's only for Acrobat Reader. ;-) (Sorry, I just had to do that.) Anyway, here's what works for me here in Win2000: If you want to launch Excel without a document, you first need to find out where it is located. Since it maps to the .xls extension, you need to look in the Registry to get the type of Excel document on the target machine: put queryRegistry("HKEY_CLASSES_ROOT\.xls\") into sheetType On my machine returned >> Excel.Sheet.8 Then, you need to take the returned value, and look *it* up in the registry to find the path to the Excel app: put queryRegistry("HKEY_CLASSES_ROOT\" & sheetType & "\shell\Open\command\") into excelPath On my machine returned >> "C:\Program Files\Microsoft Office\Office\EXCEL.EXE" /e Then you just strip off the nasty bits to get the path: put value(word 1 of excelPath) into truePath >> C:\Program Files\Microsoft Office\Office\EXCEL.EXE And finally, do an "open process for neither". Here's the complete code: on mouseUp put queryRegistry("HKEY_CLASSES_ROOT\.xls\") into sheetType put queryRegistry("HKEY_CLASSES_ROOT\" & sheetType & "\shell\Open\command\") into excelPath put value(word 1 of excelPath) into truePath open process truePath for neither end mouseUp Voila! Ken Ray Sons of Thunder Software Email: kray at sonsothunder.com Web Site: http://www.sonsothunder.com/ ----- Original Message ----- From: "Magnus von Br?msen" To: Sent: Wednesday, March 27, 2002 9:48 AM Subject: Launch another application? > Hello > > I want to start Excel from a button in a standalone on Windows. (I know > that this has been an issue before,) but I have tried every possible > solution: > > on mouseUp > launch "Acrobat Reader 5.0" > end mouseUp > > on mouseUp > open process "Acrobat Reader 5.0" for neither > end mouseUp > > and the tip from Ken Ray: > > > on mouseUp > > set the hideConsoleWindows to true > > get shell("C:\myfile.pdf") > > answer "Thank you!" > > end mouseUp > > > But nothing seems to work. Every help will be very nice. > > /magnus > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------- > "Br?nt barn skyr Windows." > ------------------------------------------------------------------- > Studio Alice > Magnus von Br?msen > 0702-212 495 > 0322-633 833 > www.studioalice.se > > _______________________________________________ > use-revolution mailing list > use-revolution at lists.runrev.com > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution > From scott at tactilemedia.com Wed Mar 27 14:09:01 2002 From: scott at tactilemedia.com (Scott Rossi) Date: Wed Mar 27 14:09:01 2002 Subject: Comparisons with Flash MX? In-Reply-To: <003a01c1d5b4$cff27ed0$7c00a8c0@mckinley.dom> Message-ID: On Wednesday, March 27, 2002, at 09:28 AM, Ken Ray wrote: > Not to sway anyone from Rev, but the promise of MX is the ability to > run on > all platforms (including PDAs). There is already support for Flash 5 on > the > latest crop of Pocket PCs, and I know they either currently have or will > have soon an MX player for Pocket PCs. Not to mention menu systems of DVDs... For me, the differentiating features between Flash and MC/REV is efficient animation. If you want to develop compact polished animation sequences with morph effects and streaming audio/video, you'll be hard pressed to find anything that competes with Flash. Also, a compelling aspect of Flash is (as Ken said) its promise of ubiquity. Apparently, Macromedia is establishing partnerships with hardware/software developers to get Flash everywhere. One can argue that Flash is not a "real" application development environment such as MC/REV, but you can't ignore it when MC/REV is not available for your delivery platform (browser, PDA, etc). Regards, Scott Rossi Creative Director, Tactile Media scott at tactilemedia.com http://www.tactilemedia.com From dsc at swcp.com Wed Mar 27 18:03:01 2002 From: dsc at swcp.com (Dar Scott) Date: Wed Mar 27 18:03:01 2002 Subject: Revolution vs. Java? Revolution vs. LabView? In-Reply-To: <3B777D50-411B-11D6-A523-000393598038@mac.com> Message-ID: On Tuesday, March 26, 2002, at 05:40 PM, David Vaughan wrote: > I use Revolution and my son uses Java. If you could summarise what > you want to know, what aspects are important, we could each offer > a proponent's view of the languages on those aspects rather than > the usual perspective of just a single bias. Thanks, David. I had hoped for pointers to documents; this is beyond that. I'm looking for a tool for making quick applications. Primary concerns: Speed of coding and debugging Speed of GUI design, especially dialog box style windows "lamp" indicators TCP/IP and serial I/O Ability to read and write arbitrary files Ease of parsing datagrams and streams (my syntax) double-click-ables (standalone) Secondary concerns: Ease of parsing datagrams and streams (other's syntax) control design XML parsing general system, I/O and file can-do multi-platform (Windows & linux) reliability learning curve Here, "secondary" doesn't mean unimportant; it means slightly less important. A "stream" means tcp, file, or process. Dar Scott From tsj at unimelb.edu.au Wed Mar 27 18:12:00 2002 From: tsj at unimelb.edu.au (Terry Judd) Date: Wed Mar 27 18:12:00 2002 Subject: Comparisons with Flash MX? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: >Thanks for the feedback Troy, could I just ask for a bit more detail: > >>MX is very weak when it comes to system level operations and use >>and/or management of local files. It has no ability to "talk" with >>hardware. > >I haven't got MX yet (my upgrade is in the post!) but one of my >customers reckons he can save local data on a client machine, not >just return it to a server? Does this ring true with you? Director shockwave allows you to write 'pref' (text) files to a dedicated shockwave folder. Presumably Flash can do the same. > >My client is looking to develop web-based information capture and >advice using anything from desktops, to laptops and PDAs as the >client. He had been considering Java, but has been tempted by Flash >MX. He thinks it will provide a richly interactive front end for >his data capture (into back end databases using XML etc.) and for >displaying his advisor information, all from inside a browser window. If it's got to happen in a browser then Flash would seem to be a reasonable way to go. It's also got pretty robust built in XML support. -- ___________________________________________________________________________ Dr Terry Judd Lecturer in Instructional Design / Multimedia Developer Biomedical Multimedia Unit Faculty of Medicine, Dentistry & Health Sciences The University of Melbourne Email: t.judd at bmu.unimelb.edu.au Phone: 03 9344 0187 Fax: 03 9344 4998 ___________________________________________________________________________ From gcanyon at inspiredlogic.com Wed Mar 27 18:48:01 2002 From: gcanyon at inspiredlogic.com (Geoff Canyon) Date: Wed Mar 27 18:48:01 2002 Subject: Insertion Point In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: At 1:23 PM +0100 3/22/02, Pierre Delain wrote: >> On 14/3/02 11:04 pm, Pierre Delain wrote: >> >>> I have a stack with about twenty fields. In two of them (forming a group), >>> the insertion bar does not appear when I click (of course the fields are not >>> locked). I don't understand what happens, I search for a while and finally I >>> discover that if I ungroup those two fields the insertion bar normally >>> reappears. If I group them again, the bar re-becomes invisible... >>> >>> How can this strange phenomenon be explained and avoided? >> >> Is something layered on top of the group? Does the group have its "Can >> receive focus" set to true? >> >> Kevin > >Yes "Can received focus" of the group is set to true. > >The layer of the group was 4. If asked for the number of layers. The answer >was 179. If I set the layer of the group to 180, the insertion bar comes >back, but disappears in the fields that are not in the same group. > >My conclusion is the following : the insertion bar is visible only in the >group with the highest layer. This means that if you want to show two fields >belonging to different groups with different layers, the insertion bar will >lack in one of them, unless you change the layer. Is it correct? I created a simple test stack with 1.1.1rc1 where this works. Here's my recipe: 1. create four fields, arranged 2x2 like this: field1 field2 field3 field4 2. I grouped field1 and field2, and then grouped field3 and field4 Insertion points can be had in all four fields. -- regards, Geoff Canyon gcanyon at inspiredlogic.com From sarahr at genesearch.com.au Wed Mar 27 19:08:01 2002 From: sarahr at genesearch.com.au (Sarah Reichelt) Date: Wed Mar 27 19:08:01 2002 Subject: Insertion Point In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <9A8EDB82-41DF-11D6-802E-00306566C7B4@genesearch.com.au> I was struggling ith this myself, but finally found a method that reproduced the problem and then solved it. In Geoff's test, the 2 groups do not overlap so the problem doesn't occur. Try this recipe: 1. create & arrange fields as follows: field 1 field 2 field 3 field 4 all insertion bars appear. 2. group fields 2 & 3 - all insertion bars appear 3. group fields 1 & 4 - insertion bars appear in fields 1 & 4 but not in 2 or 3 4. move the 2&3 group to the front - all insertion bars appear again. If a group is on top of AND overlapping another group, you will not get insertion points in group underneath. Cheers, Sarah On Thursday, March 28, 2002, at 09:45 am, Geoff Canyon wrote: >> My conclusion is the following : the insertion bar is visible only in >> the >> group with the highest layer. This means that if you want to show two >> fields >> belonging to different groups with different layers, the insertion bar >> will >> lack in one of them, unless you change the layer. Is it correct? > > I created a simple test stack with 1.1.1rc1 where this works. Here's my > recipe: > > 1. create four fields, arranged 2x2 like this: > > field1 field2 > > field3 field4 > > 2. I grouped field1 and field2, and then grouped field3 and field4 > > Insertion points can be had in all four fields. From matt.denton at limelight.com.au Wed Mar 27 19:23:01 2002 From: matt.denton at limelight.com.au (Matt Denton) Date: Wed Mar 27 19:23:01 2002 Subject: Flash Plug-in In-Reply-To: <200203272350.SAA09827@www.runrev.com> Message-ID: I wonder how hard it would be to get an XCMD or XOBJ or DLL to read a web-browser plug-in? Imagine having not only Quicktime inside Rev, but the Flash plug-in too! I certainly could use Flash components, Qtime is behind with its embedded Flash version. Wouldn't it be nice to have the latest Flash inside REV! Any ideas? Probably a huge task, but a nice idea... M@ Matt Denton From troy at rpsystems.net Wed Mar 27 22:29:01 2002 From: troy at rpsystems.net (Troy Rollins) Date: Wed Mar 27 22:29:01 2002 Subject: Comparisons with Flash MX? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Wednesday, March 27, 2002, at 06:10 PM, Terry Judd wrote: >> Thanks for the feedback Troy, could I just ask for a bit more detail: >> >>> MX is very weak when it comes to system level operations and use >>> and/or management of local files. It has no ability to "talk" with >>> hardware. >> >> I haven't got MX yet (my upgrade is in the post!) but one of my >> customers reckons he can save local data on a client machine, not just >> return it to a server? Does this ring true with you? > > Director shockwave allows you to write 'pref' (text) files to a > dedicated shockwave folder. Presumably Flash can do the same. We've been working with MX for a couple of weeks now (I have two people in it all day), and I can tell you - MX is NOT Director or even close. It's Flash5, with some workflow enhancements. I haven't checked personally, but one of my staff tells me that you still cannot create local files. (At least not easily.) > >> >> My client is looking to develop web-based information capture and >> advice using anything from desktops, to laptops and PDAs as the >> client. He had been considering Java, but has been tempted by Flash >> MX. He thinks it will provide a richly interactive front end for his >> data capture (into back end databases using XML etc.) and for >> displaying his advisor information, all from inside a browser window. > > If it's got to happen in a browser then Flash would seem to be a > reasonable way to go. It's also got pretty robust built in XML support. Agreed. You sometimes can't fight the tide. Until (if they ever do) companies learn that the Internet is more than a web browser, some projects simply require Flash. We tend to turn to Flash when the absolute necessity is a browser. I would also agree that ubiquity is certainly appealing. One of the reasons Revolution is so attractive is it's TRUE write once run anywhere. That's a lot to be proud of. It's also what makes Flash cool for developers. To us, it is unavoidable to work in several authoring platforms. Projects are examined based on functionality requirements, and the best tool for the job is selected. Flash MX definitely takes its turns in that role. However, it does NOT always win if the main requirement is Network connectivity (as some would think it might). Basically, if it has to be a browser based app. That's about it. For other purposes, Revolution is just plain more powerful, and iShell is just plain faster and more elegant to develop in. Cheers. -- Troy RPSystems www.rpsystems.net From troy at rpsystems.net Wed Mar 27 22:35:01 2002 From: troy at rpsystems.net (Troy Rollins) Date: Wed Mar 27 22:35:01 2002 Subject: Comparisons with Flash MX? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <86E4D2C0-41FC-11D6-91E0-000393853D6C@rpsystems.net> On Wednesday, March 27, 2002, at 11:25 AM, Peter Reid wrote: >> It also continues to suffer from file size limitations. After 4-5 >> meg ... it's done. > > In what way is 4-5 meg a limit - you can't make files larger or they > simply don't work?? Flash has always had a "choke point". Yes, you can make files larger, but they start to deteriorate around 4.5 megs. Poor reaction, failed image loads, audio lags. Certain types of applications can take a bit more before exhibiting these issues, others a bit less. We have not tested this limit in MX, because or Flash5 workflow process just continues into MX. Our current projects are designed to accommodate these issues. The typical work-around for the issue is to break a single project into a number of linked movie clips. -- Troy RPSystems www.rpsystems.net From subscriber at btopenworld.com Wed Mar 27 22:48:01 2002 From: subscriber at btopenworld.com (Subscriber) Date: Wed Mar 27 22:48:01 2002 Subject: Launch another application? References: <2631093A-419A-11D6-B076-003065CCBD1A@studioalice.se> Message-ID: <000001c1d5b0$186d9640$1201a8c0@server> You need the full path to the application. For example launch "C:/Program Files/Microsoft Office/Office/EXCEL.EXE" starts Excel on my computer. Regards Gary ----- Original Message ----- From: "Magnus von Br?msen" To: Sent: Wednesday, March 27, 2002 3:48 PM Subject: Launch another application? Hello I want to start Excel from a button in a standalone on Windows. (I know that this has been an issue before,) but I have tried every possible solution: on mouseUp launch "Acrobat Reader 5.0" end mouseUp on mouseUp open process "Acrobat Reader 5.0" for neither end mouseUp and the tip from Ken Ray: > on mouseUp > set the hideConsoleWindows to true > get shell("C:\myfile.pdf") > answer "Thank you!" > end mouseUp > But nothing seems to work. Every help will be very nice. /magnus ------------------------------------------------------------------- "Br?nt barn skyr Windows." ------------------------------------------------------------------- Studio Alice Magnus von Br?msen 0702-212 495 0322-633 833 www.studioalice.se _______________________________________________ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution at lists.runrev.com http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution From cowhead at ztv.ne.jp Thu Mar 28 04:00:01 2002 From: cowhead at ztv.ne.jp (cowhead) Date: Thu Mar 28 04:00:01 2002 Subject: capturing video Message-ID: <3CA2DC09.39FF05C9@ztv.ne.jp> I want to capture portions of videos as quicktime movies, so that I can incorporate them into some Rev projects. There seem to be a plethora of approx. $100 devices out there that will do this. Can anyone recommend one in particular? My only concerns are 1. I want firewire connectivity (I'm working with Macs) 2. Ease of use. I want to be able to cue up my video, play a short seg, and capture it as quicktime movie, then move on to a new video segment, relatively quickly. Alternatively, I will soon be buying a fire-wire ready video camera. Would it be easier to just record from video's to the digital camera, then use the camera as the video input device to the computer? If anyone has any experience with these things. Your help will be greatly appreciated! mark mitchell Japan From pierre.Delain at nxbp.fr Thu Mar 28 05:11:01 2002 From: pierre.Delain at nxbp.fr (pierre.Delain at nxbp.fr) Date: Thu Mar 28 05:11:01 2002 Subject: =?iso-8859-1?Q?R=E9f._:_use-revolution_digest,_Vol_1_#293_-_13_ms?= =?iso-8859-1?Q?gs?= Message-ID: ******************************************************************* L'integrite de ce message n'etant pas assuree sur internet, Natexis Banques Populaires ne peut etre tenu responsable de son contenu. Toute utilisation ou diffusion non autorisee est interdite. Si vous n'etes pas destinataire de ce message, merci de le detruire et d'avertir l'expediteur. The integrity of this message cannot be guaranteed on the Internet. Natexis Banques Populaires can not therefore be considered responsible for the contents. Any unauthorized use or dissemination is prohibited. If you are not the intended recipient of this message, then please delete it and notify the sender. ******************************************************************* From cowhead at ztv.ne.jp Thu Mar 28 05:12:01 2002 From: cowhead at ztv.ne.jp (cowhead) Date: Thu Mar 28 05:12:01 2002 Subject: extracting hypercard picts Message-ID: <3CA2ECBE.1FAC4868@ztv.ne.jp> This was covered recently, but I've forgotten what the upshot was. Appologies. How does one efficiently extract pictures stored in the resource fork of a hypercard project? How about pictures saved within a Supercard project (directly on a card) I tried with graphic convertor, but couldn't get it to recognize either file type. Also, Resedit doesn't seem to offer any easy batch export of pict images. Thanks in advance! mark mitchell Japan From kmajor at metascape.org Thu Mar 28 05:43:01 2002 From: kmajor at metascape.org (Klaus Major) Date: Thu Mar 28 05:43:01 2002 Subject: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Re:_R=E9f._:_use-revolution_digest,_Vol_1_#293_-?= =?ISO-8859-1?Q?_13_msgs?= In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <4F5D2461-4238-11D6-B500-003065D52E8E@metascape.org> Bonjour Pierre, > > ******************************************************************* > L'integrite de ce message n'etant pas assuree sur internet, Natexis > Banques Populaires ne peut etre tenu responsable de son contenu. > Toute utilisation ou diffusion non autorisee est interdite. Si vous > n'etes pas destinataire de ce message, merci de le detruire et > d'avertir l'expediteur. > > The integrity of this message cannot be guaranteed on the Internet. > Natexis Banques Populaires can not therefore be considered > responsible for the contents. > Any unauthorized use or dissemination is prohibited. If you are not > the intended recipient of this message, then please delete it and > notify the sender. > ******************************************************************* > _______________________________________________ > use-revolution mailing list > use-revolution at lists.runrev.com > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution merci beacoup pour cette information importante ;-) Thanks a lot for this important information ;-) Humourous greetings from germany... Klaus Major kmajor at metascape.org From sims at ezpzapps.com Thu Mar 28 05:44:00 2002 From: sims at ezpzapps.com (sims) Date: Thu Mar 28 05:44:00 2002 Subject: extracting hypercard picts In-Reply-To: <3CA2ECBE.1FAC4868@ztv.ne.jp> References: <3CA2ECBE.1FAC4868@ztv.ne.jp> Message-ID: > How about pictures saved within a >Supercard project (directly on a card) Is the proj password protected and you have the author's permission & password to access the picts but you do not own SuperCard? I would think that you might be able to just open the proj in SuperCard... sims From Stgecft at aol.com Thu Mar 28 06:09:00 2002 From: Stgecft at aol.com (Stgecft at aol.com) Date: Thu Mar 28 06:09:00 2002 Subject: capturing video Message-ID: iMovie-free from apple From mike at essex-web.com Thu Mar 28 07:07:00 2002 From: mike at essex-web.com (Michael Foy) Date: Thu Mar 28 07:07:00 2002 Subject: Hi , greeting etc. Message-ID: <00f601c1d651$125d8b60$1965a4c2@essexweb.com> Thanks Jeanne, I'm now over here too :-) Yet another person join the group, I have been meaning to join this group for a while brief CV name Michael Foy I have been an alcoholic (whoops wrong group) Mac user since 1984, Loved Hertz....'s HyperCard, agreed with Douglas Adams views of HyperCard, still think it was the best card programming applications, then owned Supercard (ah the colour, bliss, oh separate editor player, oh well) still a very nice program) Ah Revolutions, er, bit confusing, still a very nice program, v powerful, just a shame there is no documentation, (I know there is on-line, but, nothing better than a bit of paper) So long live the revolution and hopefully we have some revolution gurus here.... Is there an easy way to convert HyperCard stacks to revolution? miock (I know I am a Michael, but there may be other michaels out there with prior rights to this list, so if you don't mind...) From Doug_Ivers at lord.com Thu Mar 28 08:29:01 2002 From: Doug_Ivers at lord.com (Ivers, Doug E) Date: Thu Mar 28 08:29:01 2002 Subject: hierarchical menus Message-ID: <6150F6099DBED111852E0008C7241464049B375B@NTSRV-CRD04> I didn't get any explanation of how to set up a submenu in the Menu Manager, so I did it in a script. Here's what I ended up with: on createPrefMenu -- this is called in preOpenStack -- create Preferences menu contents with tab in front of each font name --- (to make the font list a submenu) -- prerequisite: a button "Preferences" in group "menubar0" put the fontNames into sysFontList put empty into tabFontList repeat for each line L in sysFontList put tab&L&return after tabFontList end repeat delete char -1 of tabFontList -- the trailing return put "Font"&return&tabFontList into button "Preferences" of group "menubar0" end createPrefMenu Any suggestions for improving this? -- D On 3/27/02 8:57 AM, "Ivers, Doug E" wrote: > Can the menu manager be used to create hierarchical menus? I saw an > earlier message on this, but it still doesn't seem to work in 1.1.1 > final. > > I'm looking for an example stack in which hierarchical or cascading > menus are used. In particular, I want to have a menubar with a > Preferences menu under which is a Font menuitem under which is a list of > the available fonts. > > Anyone know of an existing example? (I haven't looked through all the > user contribution stacks for this.) Surely this is not uncommon. > > > -- D > > _______________________________________________ use-revolution mailing > list use-revolution at lists.runrev.com > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution > From tim11 at bellatlantic.net Thu Mar 28 08:35:00 2002 From: tim11 at bellatlantic.net (Tim) Date: Thu Mar 28 08:35:00 2002 Subject: Problem with modification dates Message-ID: Hi, I have two identical stacks on two machines, a Mac OS X and a Win2K. I want to have a third stack be able to look up the modification date of both stacks and open the most recently modified stack. The problem is that when I open the stack which resides on a Mac with PC Revolution and modify it and save it, the modification date does not change on a Mac. This is very weird stuff indeed. Does anyone have a solution? TIA, Tim From rcozens at pon.net Thu Mar 28 11:10:01 2002 From: rcozens at pon.net (Rob Cozens) Date: Thu Mar 28 11:10:01 2002 Subject: Hi , greeting etc. In-Reply-To: <00f601c1d651$125d8b60$1965a4c2@essexweb.com> References: <00f601c1d651$125d8b60$1965a4c2@essexweb.com> Message-ID: >a shame there is no documentation, (I know there is on-line, >but, nothing better than a bit of paper) Hi miock, If you crave printed documentation for the underlying engine & scripting syntax (but not the UI), MetaCard Corp. offers a printed MetaCard Users Guide. I find it to be a helpful reference. With that and your HyperTalk experience, all you'll need to do is master the UI. -- Rob Cozens CCW, Serendipity Software Company http://www.oenolog.com/who.htm "And I, which was two fooles, do so grow three; Who are a little wise, the best fooles bee." from "The Triple Foole" by John Donne (1572-1631) From mike at essex-web.com Thu Mar 28 11:39:01 2002 From: mike at essex-web.com (Michael Foy) Date: Thu Mar 28 11:39:01 2002 Subject: Hi , greeting etc. References: <00f601c1d651$125d8b60$1965a4c2@essexweb.com> Message-ID: <008f01c1d5ad$d4955720$1965a4c2@essexweb.com> thanks Rob, wow you have hair like me.... only mine is greyer. :-) now where exactly does metacard come into play here, I take it, it is a bit like Supercard or Hypercard and Revolution. I'l try the on-line documentation for now until some bright spark does a revolution one. thanks for the input though mike ----- Original Message ----- From: Rob Cozens To: Sent: Thursday, March 28, 2002 4:03 PM Subject: Re: Hi , greeting etc. > >a shame there is no documentation, (I know there is on-line, > >but, nothing better than a bit of paper) > > Hi miock, > > If you crave printed documentation for the underlying engine & > scripting syntax (but not the UI), MetaCard Corp. offers a printed > MetaCard Users Guide. I find it to be a helpful reference. With > that and your HyperTalk experience, all you'll need to do is master > the UI. > -- > > Rob Cozens > CCW, Serendipity Software Company > http://www.oenolog.com/who.htm > > "And I, which was two fooles, do so grow three; > Who are a little wise, the best fooles bee." > > from "The Triple Foole" by John Donne (1572-1631) > _______________________________________________ > use-revolution mailing list > use-revolution at lists.runrev.com > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution > From kbomb at umich.edu Thu Mar 28 11:44:00 2002 From: kbomb at umich.edu (Dennis F. Kahlbaum) Date: Thu Mar 28 11:44:00 2002 Subject: File I/O, Arrays, and Databases in Revolution Message-ID: <3CA3473D.B189C37@umich.edu> I'm new to Revolution (I'm a long-time FORTRAN programmer), and am having trouble understanding how file input/output, arrays, and databases work in this package. Here is some background and my problems/questions: I've created several complex air pollution modeling programs in FORTRAN. I want to use Revolution to act as the GUI interface to and from these programs. As a result, Revolution must read and write files which the FORTRAN programs use or create. Every line of these files are of mixed type: character fields, integer number fields, real number fields, scientific notation fields, etc. In looking at the Revolution documentation, it appears that I have to somehow read or write each line as a string, then somehow parse each field from this string. So how do you do this efficiently in Revolution? Please note that the files created by the FORTRAN programs are fairly large. The next question is how are arrays implemented in Revolution?. I've searched the documentation but haven't found anything. What I'd like to do is read in the FORTRAN files, putting the data into Revolution arrays for display or calculational analysis. How can this be done? Finally, I tam interested in the database capabilities of Revolution (especially the Valentina engine). I'd like to read in the data from the FORTRAN files and directly put them into a database so that information can be searched, manipulated, calculated. etc. How can this be done? I realize these are complex questions. But the use of Revolution for this project hinges on how well this can be done with the package. Any help or guidance will be greatly appreciated. Dennis F. Kahlbaum University of Michigan From kray at sonsothunder.com Thu Mar 28 13:04:07 2002 From: kray at sonsothunder.com (Ken Ray) Date: Thu Mar 28 13:04:07 2002 Subject: extracting hypercard picts References: <3CA2ECBE.1FAC4868@ztv.ne.jp> Message-ID: <005001c1d682$76a0d970$7c00a8c0@mckinley.dom> Mark, For graphics in the resource fork of a HyperCard stack, you can use GraphicConverter (I use 4.2). Go to File -> Convert... In the Filter popup on the left, choose "PICT from Resource", and in the Dest Format popup select either JPG or PNG (unless you know they're 256 colors or less, in which case you can choose GIF as well). You should be able to create a batch which will convert them all. In SuperCard, you can create an SC script that will use the "export pictureData" command: export pictureData of to jpeg file Hope this helps, Ken Ray Sons of Thunder Software Email: kray at sonsothunder.com Web Site: http://www.sonsothunder.com/ ----- Original Message ----- From: "cowhead" To: Sent: Thursday, March 28, 2002 4:13 AM Subject: extracting hypercard picts > This was covered recently, but I've forgotten what the upshot was. > Appologies. How does one efficiently extract pictures stored in the > resource fork of a hypercard project? How about pictures saved within a > Supercard project (directly on a card) > I tried with graphic convertor, but couldn't get it to recognize either > file type. Also, Resedit doesn't seem to offer any easy batch export of > pict images. > Thanks in advance! > > mark mitchell > Japan > > _______________________________________________ > use-revolution mailing list > use-revolution at lists.runrev.com > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution > From karlpet at mac.com Thu Mar 28 13:16:01 2002 From: karlpet at mac.com (Karl Petersen) Date: Thu Mar 28 13:16:01 2002 Subject: capturing video In-Reply-To: <3CA2DC09.39FF05C9@ztv.ne.jp> References: <3CA2DC09.39FF05C9@ztv.ne.jp> Message-ID: At 6:02 PM +0900 3/28/02, cowhead wrote: >Alternatively, I will soon be buying a fire-wire ready video camera. >Would it be easier to just record from video's to the digital camera, >then use the camera as the video input device to the computer? Yes, the video camera may be the better solution. It delivers the most bang for the buck. A standalone analog-to-digital converter box will do the job, but it may become redundant the moment you buy a camcorder. If the purchase were mine, I'd apply those $hundreds to a camcorder to get the best I can afford. THAT's the most important purchase. (Speaking of $$, note that all camcorders come with a hidden accessory. When you open the box, a black hole emerges to take up residence in your house. It sucks up cash for hard disks, RAM, PCI cards, software and sometimes even a new Mac. For example, just a few seconds of video filled my old hard drive. Unless you have deep pockets, the black hole makes it doubly important to not waste money on hardware you will never use. Nonetheless, life with a black hole has advantages: Editing video may be the most fun you'll ever have on your Mac. And this newbie.rev finds the QuickTime-iMovie-Revolution combo a promising addition to my digital hub.) On the other hand, if you plan to import hundreds of hours of video you may want to save wear and tear on your camcorder and get a converter box. The Dazzle DV Bridge is popular among iMovie users, but it costs $300. http://www.dazzle.com/products/hw_bridge.html. Most important, it supports FireWire, required for iMovie. If other cheaper solutions worked well, my guess is Dazzle wouldn't be so popular. You don't say whether your source video is copy protected, so I'll mention there may be copy protection issues that limit your options, both hardware-wise and legal-wise. And note that camcorders differ how they handle analog-to-digital conversions, especially with iMovie. Most will do what you want, but may require taping the source video. Some can't import video at all -- even video you've created in iMovie -- a limitation built into cameras sold in some parts of the world. Most will do what you want, however, but they do not work the same. If your Mac has a free PCI slot, a cheap solution may be to add a TV Tuner card. They cost just $70, if you can find one, and let you watch TV on your Mac in a resizable window. They come with software to capture live TV/VCR video to a QuickTime movie. (I prefer using the $40 shareware program BTV Pro, which understands how to use most TV Tuner cards.) The faster your Mac, the better/larger your captured video can be. A 375 MHz G3 processor captures 320x240 video nicely at 30fps using "None" compression. I compress it later, or bring it into iMovie. The captured video looks surprisingly good, although not as good as digital video from a camcorder. If your destination is a 320x240 QuickTime movie the captured video may be plenty good enough. At that size, it's hard to tell the difference from camcorder video. The quality of the source video seems to be the key variable then, not the capture method. Karl From zelston at aol.com Thu Mar 28 13:31:01 2002 From: zelston at aol.com (Zac Elston) Date: Thu Mar 28 13:31:01 2002 Subject: File I/O, Arrays, and Databases in Revolution In-Reply-To: <200203281705.MAA24883@www.runrev.com> Message-ID: one month later and now I can answer questions!!!! > fields, scientific notation fields, etc. In looking at the Revolution > documentation, it appears that I have to somehow read or write each line > as a string, then somehow parse each field from this string. So how do > you do this efficiently in Revolution? Please note that the files > created by the FORTRAN programs are fairly large. > open file filename for read read from file until EOF put it into DaFile close file Filename now DaFile is a copy of the contents of Filename and you can use string and line manipulation on the variable DaFile > The next question is how are arrays implemented in Revolution?. I've > searched the documentation but haven't found anything. What I'd like to > do is read in the FORTRAN files, putting the data into Revolution arrays > for display or calculational analysis. How can this be done? > reading lines MUST occur with a variable, it doens't seem to work with files just guessing here.... so put line X of DaFile into MyLine --make MyLine an array --research the "split" command, arrays are not very well documented in the help text. split MyLine with somedelimiter --get the keys of the array for later put the keys of MyLine into MyKeys now you have an array and the keys > Finally, I tam interested in the database capabilities of Revolution > (especially the Valentina engine). I'd like to read in the data from > the FORTRAN files and directly put them into a database so that > information can be searched, manipulated, calculated. etc. How can this > be done? can't help here, just about to try it myself... -zac From gcanyon at inspiredlogic.com Thu Mar 28 14:08:00 2002 From: gcanyon at inspiredlogic.com (Geoff Canyon) Date: Thu Mar 28 14:08:00 2002 Subject: Problem with modification dates In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: At 8:33 AM -0500 3/28/02, Tim wrote: >I have two identical stacks on two machines, a Mac OS X and a Win2K. I want >to have a third stack be able to look up the modification date of both >stacks and open the most recently modified stack. The problem is that when I >open the stack which resides on a Mac with PC Revolution and modify it and >save it, the modification date does not change on a Mac. This is very weird >stuff indeed. Does anyone have a solution? Do the stacks have the same name? You might be getting tripped up by Revolution's method of storing stacks in RAM. When you close a stack, it isn't really closed unless its destroyStack is set to true. -- regards, Geoff Canyon gcanyon at inspiredlogic.com From gcanyon at inspiredlogic.com Thu Mar 28 14:08:18 2002 From: gcanyon at inspiredlogic.com (Geoff Canyon) Date: Thu Mar 28 14:08:18 2002 Subject: Hi , greeting etc. In-Reply-To: <00f601c1d651$125d8b60$1965a4c2@essexweb.com> References: <00f601c1d651$125d8b60$1965a4c2@essexweb.com> Message-ID: At 12:07 PM +0000 3/28/02, Michael Foy wrote: >name Michael Foy >I have been an alcoholic (whoops wrong group) Mac user since 1984, Loved >Hertz....'s HyperCard, agreed with Douglas Adams views of HyperCard, still >think it was the best card programming applications, then owned Supercard >(ah the colour, bliss, oh separate editor player, oh well) still a very nice >program) Ah Revolutions, er, bit confusing, still a very nice program, v >powerful, just a shame there is no documentation, (I know there is on-line, >but, nothing better than a bit of paper) Printed documentation is coming... In the meantime, you can use the RTFer stack available on the user contributions page to extract the online documentation to RTF format (or text or HTML). By the way, as a general note, I fixed the but in RTFer where it put the syntax example in place of the example code, and I added a page number to the RTF export. >So long live the revolution and hopefully we have some revolution gurus >here.... > >Is there an easy way to convert HyperCard stacks to revolution? Yes and no. Yes, in that you simply open the HyperCard stack in Revolution (couldn't be easier than that, could it?). No, in that many HyperCard stacks use XCMDs or syntax that are unnecessary or slightly different in Revolution. Generally, for any reasonably complicated stack it's a reasonably involved process. Check out the excellent tutorial at: -- regards, Geoff Canyon gcanyon at inspiredlogic.com From tim11 at bellatlantic.net Thu Mar 28 15:11:01 2002 From: tim11 at bellatlantic.net (Tim) Date: Thu Mar 28 15:11:01 2002 Subject: Problem with modification dates In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On 3/28/02 2:05 PM, "Geoff Canyon" wrote: > At 8:33 AM -0500 3/28/02, Tim wrote: >> I have two identical stacks on two machines, a Mac OS X and a Win2K. I want >> to have a third stack be able to look up the modification date of both >> stacks and open the most recently modified stack. The problem is that when I >> open the stack which resides on a Mac with PC Revolution and modify it and >> save it, the modification date does not change on a Mac. This is very weird >> stuff indeed. Does anyone have a solution? > > Do the stacks have the same name? You might be getting tripped up by > Revolution's method of storing stacks in RAM. When you close a stack, it isn't > really closed unless its destroyStack is set to true. The stacks do have the same name, but that shouldn't matter because you can see the modification date not changing even in the finder. It seems that if you open a Mac stack on a Mac and save it, then the date gets updated, but if you open the same stack from the PC through an AppleTalk network, then it doesn't update. -- Tim From waynet at absolute.net Thu Mar 28 16:55:01 2002 From: waynet at absolute.net (Wayne Townsend) Date: Thu Mar 28 16:55:01 2002 Subject: Hot Girls And Wild Horses! (Rev & MX) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Greetings from Palm Springs, Interested in communicating with others who develop using Flash MX on the client side and Rev on the server side. I think that this combination of Rev and FlashMX truly gives us the tools to build the next level of applications. We have been working for years with Flash4 & Flamethrower, with very good results, and have a lot of info to share if you're interested. Our particular focus is on on-line, real-time, multi-user gaming projects, and Educational (LDL/WBT) projects. These are *Community-based, live Web Applications*, not isolated desktop apps. Now we're full-on to a Rev and MX conversion for our next series of multi-user games, and would enjoy posts on the list from other developers who are interested in a little focus sub-group of Rev/MX. The next challenge? Getting MX to communicate locally with a Rev cgi (on the same machine). That would be a breakthrough. All the best, /wayne PS: relax... play bingo... Visit: http://www.PalmSpringsBingo.com/sgn Wayne Townsend Founder, Accesson waynet at accesson.net Alt: waynet at absolute.net http://www.accesson.net Studio: Yucca Valley, CA 760.228.2301 From rcozens at pon.net Thu Mar 28 17:06:01 2002 From: rcozens at pon.net (Rob Cozens) Date: Thu Mar 28 17:06:01 2002 Subject: File I/O, Arrays, and Databases in Revolution In-Reply-To: <3CA3473D.B189C37@umich.edu> References: <3CA3473D.B189C37@umich.edu> Message-ID: >I'm new to Revolution (I'm a long-time FORTRAN programmer), and am >having trouble understanding how file input/output, arrays, and >databases work in this package. Hi Dennis, >I've created several complex air pollution modeling programs in >FORTRAN. I want to use Revolution to act as the GUI interface to and >from these programs. As a result, Revolution must read and write files >which the FORTRAN programs use or create. Every line of these files are >of mixed type: character fields, integer number fields, real number >fields, scientific notation fields, etc. In looking at the Revolution >documentation, it appears that I have to somehow read or write each line >as a string, then somehow parse each field from this string. So how do >you do this efficiently in Revolution? Transcript, like other Xtalk languages is adept at string processing, and hides internal data formats from the user. If you can easily convert integer & real variables to & from strings in FORTRAN (it's been so long since I used a FORTRAN compiler I've forgotten), I'd do it there and concentrate on string manipulation in Transcript. Transcript offers three built-in delimiters for string parsing: word, line, item. A word is delimited by one or more space characters or the return character, except that a quoted string counts as one word. A line is delimited by a single return character. It is essentially an item where the itemDelimiter is the return character. An item is delimited by the last specified itemDelimiter, the default itemDelimiter is comma; however you can set it to any valid character (eg: set the itemDelimiter to numToChar(240)). putting something into line or item x will create any missing lines/items between 1 and (x-1). Putting something into word x where x is not 1 and word (x-1) does not exist is non sequitur: in essence, you can have an empty line or item, but not an empty word. You can have items in words ("this,is,four,items") and items in lines ("this,is,four,items"&return). You can also have lines in items ("This"&return&"is"&return"&"one"&return&"item"&comma). So long as you can convert your data to ASCII text and can identify a character value that can never appear in your text file as an item delimiter, you can set the itemDelimiter and parse away. The preferred method of parsing the text once you have opened the file and read until EOF (if memory is sufficient; otherwise you'll have to read until return and process one line at a time) is something along the lines of: put the itemDelimiter into someTempVariable -- to restore when done set the itemDelimiter to myDelimiter repeat for each line dataRecord of myFileData put item 1 of dataRecord into someStringVariable put item 2 of dataRecord into someInteger put (item 3 of it is "t") into someBoolean end repeat set the itemDelimiter to someTempVariable Please note: The above syntax is MUCH more efficient than repeat with x = 1 to the number of lines of myFileData put line x of myFileData into dataRecord ... end repeat >The next question is how are arrays implemented in Revolution?. I've >searched the documentation but haven't found anything. What I'd like to >do is read in the FORTRAN files, putting the data into Revolution arrays >for display or calculational analysis. How can this be done? You can also set up arrays of three dimensions or more using multiple delimiters: From my post of 7 Jan, 2002: >> function getElement xCoord,yCoord,zCoord,xDelim,yDelim,zDelim,zaArray put the itemDelimiter into savedDelimiter set the itemDelimiter to zDelim get item zCoord of zaArray set the itemDelimiter to yDelim get item yCoord of it set the itemDelimiter to xDelim get item xCoord of it set the itemDelimiter to savedDelimiter return it end getElement << In addition, and this is especially useful for discontinuous arrays, Transcript supports implicit single dimension hash tables by simply appending array notation to a variable name: eg: put someValue into myVariable[someKey]. >Finally, I tam interested in the database capabilities of Revolution >(especially the Valentina engine). I'd like to read in the data from >the FORTRAN files and directly put them into a database so that >information can be searched, manipulated, calculated. etc. How can this >be done? Revolution includes built-in support for the Valentina engine and several flavors of SQL database. In addition, it's quite easy to create a simple single-user database directly in transcript. The demo at http://www.oenolog.com/apple_demo.htm includes a generic db stack and a library of drivers in HyperCard. >I realize these are complex questions. But the use of Revolution for >this project hinges on how well this can be done with the package. > >Any help or guidance will be greatly appreciated. > >Dennis F. Kahlbaum >University of Michigan > Hope this helps. -- Rob Cozens CCW, Serendipity Software Company http://www.oenolog.com/who.htm "And I, which was two fooles, do so grow three; Who are a little wise, the best fooles bee." from "The Triple Foole" by John Donne (1572-1631) From dsc at swcp.com Thu Mar 28 17:07:01 2002 From: dsc at swcp.com (Dar Scott) Date: Thu Mar 28 17:07:01 2002 Subject: Running a standalone as a W2K service Message-ID: <46D9B6E4-4297-11D6-B887-0050E4C0B205@swcp.com> Has anybody tried running a Revolution standalone as a Windows service? (Haven't really done my homework on this. I know there is a method to run an arbitrary program as a service, but I have not explored that. I thought I'd learn what pitfalls folks have found first.) Dar Scott From matt.denton at limelight.com.au Thu Mar 28 19:37:01 2002 From: matt.denton at limelight.com.au (Matt Denton) Date: Thu Mar 28 19:37:01 2002 Subject: The Day Today is... ummm.... In-Reply-To: <200203261704.MAA09254@www.runrev.com> Message-ID: This is a question for other users on various OS's, with various localised System Times: On my OSX System, 10.1.3 "put the system WeekdayNames" returns: Saturday Sunday Monday Tuesday Wednesday Thursday Friday and "put the WeekdayNames" returns: Sunday Monday Tuesday Wednesday Thursday Friday Saturday Now I checked all my System settings (Date and Time and International) and all are normal. In Sydney, Australia, our week doesn't really start on Saturday (although technically speaking, we are ahead of most of the world... sun rises in our sector first :~) so I'm wondering if anyone else has this error in WeekDayNames? Is this OSX, Rev, or the fact that Australia clocks over before much of the rest of the world? Chow from Down Under, Sunny-side up! M@ Matt Denton From drvaughan55 at mac.com Thu Mar 28 20:10:01 2002 From: drvaughan55 at mac.com (David Vaughan) Date: Thu Mar 28 20:10:01 2002 Subject: The Day Today is... ummm.... In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <8434D7BD-42B1-11D6-8E10-000393598038@mac.com> Matt If you look at the Comments at the bottom of the Dictionary entry, it seems it is an OSX issue rather than Rev. Although, why Apple imagines the Australian week starts on Saturday is unknown to me... cheers David On Friday, March 29, 2002, at 11:34 , Matt Denton wrote: > This is a question for other users on various OS's, with various > localised System Times: > > On my OSX System, 10.1.3 > > "put the system WeekdayNames" > > returns: > > Saturday > Sunday > Monday > Tuesday > Wednesday > Thursday > Friday > > and > > "put the WeekdayNames" > > returns: > > Sunday > Monday > Tuesday > Wednesday > Thursday > Friday > Saturday > > Now I checked all my System settings (Date and Time and International) > and all are normal. In Sydney, Australia, our week doesn't really > start on Saturday (although technically speaking, we are ahead of most > of the world... sun rises in our sector first :~) so I'm wondering if > anyone else has this error in WeekDayNames? Is this OSX, Rev, or the > fact that Australia clocks over before much of the rest of the world? > > Chow from Down Under, Sunny-side up! > > M@ > Matt Denton > > _______________________________________________ > use-revolution mailing list > use-revolution at lists.runrev.com > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution > From guzdial at cc.gatech.edu Thu Mar 28 21:48:01 2002 From: guzdial at cc.gatech.edu (Mark Guzdial) Date: Thu Mar 28 21:48:01 2002 Subject: Revolution under Darwin In-Reply-To: <6150F6099DBED111852E0008C7241464049B374E@NTSRV-CRD04> Message-ID: <3A367D58-42BF-11D6-A76E-003065CC5152@cc.gatech.edu> Is anyone running Revolution under Darwin (e.g., using an X server and some window manager)? If so, could you let me know what window manager you're using, and perhaps any tricks you've used? After trying rooted and rootless, Oroborus and Enlightenment, with and without Gnome, I can't get it past the startup screen. I do get that far, but then it always Aborts. Thanks for any tips! Mark From iansummerfield at btconnect.com Thu Mar 28 22:55:01 2002 From: iansummerfield at btconnect.com (Ian Summerfield) Date: Thu Mar 28 22:55:01 2002 Subject: MOD function does not work! So be warned! Message-ID: The code I give here might look inefficient, the code comes from a large project, so there are reasons for doing it this way! It's just taken me several hours to figure out why my code wasn't working, and it turns out to be a bug in Revolution. Revolution 1.1.1b2 (OS X 10.1.3) seems to think 5 mod 5 = 5 whereas it is zero. Try this code: on mouseup put 235 into startPoint put 255 into endPoint put 0.1 into increment put empty into msg put startPoint into loop repeat while loop<=endPoint put loop && loop mod 5 & return after msg add increment to loop end repeat end mouseup It will output to the message box a list of numbers. The loop counter is on each line followed by a space and the loop mod 5. Here's my output: 235 0 <<<<---- correct 235.1 0.1 235.2 0.2 235.3 0.3 <> 240 5 <<<<---- wrong and impossible 240.1 0.1 240.2 0.2 240.3 0.3 <> 244.9 4.9 245 5 <<<<---- wrong and impossible 245.1 0.1 245.2 0.2 245.3 0.3 <> 250 5 <<<<---- wrong and impossible 250.1 0.1 250.2 0.2 250.3 0.3 <> 254.9 4.9 255 5 <<<<---- wrong and impossible From drvaughan55 at mac.com Thu Mar 28 23:08:01 2002 From: drvaughan55 at mac.com (David Vaughan) Date: Thu Mar 28 23:08:01 2002 Subject: MOD function does not work! So be warned! In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <5C057A26-42CA-11D6-8E10-000393598038@mac.com> On Friday, March 29, 2002, at 02:53 , Ian Summerfield wrote: > The code I give here might look inefficient, the code comes from a large > project, so there are reasons for doing it this way! > > It's just taken me several hours to figure out why my code wasn't > working, > and it turns out to be a bug in Revolution. > > Revolution 1.1.1b2 (OS X 10.1.3) seems to think 5 mod 5 = 5 whereas it > is > zero. > on mouseup > put 235 into startPoint > put 255 into endPoint > put 0.1 into increment > put empty into msg > put startPoint into loop > repeat while loop<=endPoint > put loop && loop mod 5 & return after msg > add increment to loop > end repeat > end mouseup > ian Interesting bug. I changed your startpoint and endpoint to 4.9 & 5 with no bug and 4.8 & 5 with the bug. Changing the critical line to "put loop && round(loop) mod 5 & return after msg" disposes of the error so I it seems to be a trailing digits error in real arithmetic rather than a logical bug as such. "5 mod 5" of course always produces 0. cheers David From pixelbird at interisland.net Thu Mar 28 23:33:01 2002 From: pixelbird at interisland.net (pixelbird at interisland.net) Date: Thu Mar 28 23:33:01 2002 Subject: Hi , greeting etc. Message-ID: <20020329043113280.AAA3700@sanjuan.interisland.net@orcas.interisland.net> > powerful, just a shame there is no documentation, (I know there is on-line, > but, nothing better than a bit of paper) ---------- First of all, welcome, I hope this is a good experience for you. I'm hotrodding an old Mac to use specifically for reference. It will have all the Rev docs (plus those for other programs, too), and I will add working examples as I go, so I can watch what happens, notes about platform compatibility (or lack thereof), etc. ---------- > miock (I know I am a Michael, but there may be other michaels out there with > prior rights to this list, so if you don't mind...) ---------- OK. See ya later, miock. Finest regards, Ken N. --------------------------------------------- The Computer Place Info = info at interisland.net http://www.compplace.com/ From dsc at swcp.com Thu Mar 28 23:49:01 2002 From: dsc at swcp.com (Dar Scott) Date: Thu Mar 28 23:49:01 2002 Subject: MOD function does not work! So be warned! In-Reply-To: <5C057A26-42CA-11D6-8E10-000393598038@mac.com> Message-ID: <767CF7FA-42CF-11D6-9E8D-0050E4C0B205@swcp.com> On Thursday, March 28, 2002, at 09:06 PM, David Vaughan wrote: > Interesting bug. I changed your startpoint and endpoint to 4.9 & 5 > with no bug and 4.8 & 5 with the bug. > Changing the critical line to "put loop && round(loop) mod 5 & > return after msg" disposes of the error so I it seems to be a > trailing digits error in real arithmetic rather than a logical bug > as such. "5 mod 5" of course always produces 0. This is discouraging. I typed ".2 + .2 + .2 + .2 + .2 = 10 into the message window and got false. I assume by real you mean floating point, as typically implemented by computer hardware, a number with a binary point. I don't see anything in the documentation as numbers being sometimes implemented as floating point. I wouldn't mind this if it is transparent. As long as a value looks and acts like a string, I don't care how it is stored internally. As far as rounding, without evidence to the contrary one would have to assume that numbers are rounded to a decimal point rather than to a binary point. (Numbers don't have to be represented in decimal for a decimal point to be maintained, but they often are.) The implication is that applications that need a decimal point need to have lots of special code. Dar Scott From drvaughan55 at mac.com Fri Mar 29 00:17:01 2002 From: drvaughan55 at mac.com (David Vaughan) Date: Fri Mar 29 00:17:01 2002 Subject: MOD function does not work! So be warned! In-Reply-To: <767CF7FA-42CF-11D6-9E8D-0050E4C0B205@swcp.com> Message-ID: <0E142BC0-42D4-11D6-8E10-000393598038@mac.com> On Friday, March 29, 2002, at 03:43 , Dar Scott wrote: > > On Thursday, March 28, 2002, at 09:06 PM, David Vaughan wrote: > >> Interesting bug. I changed your startpoint and endpoint to 4.9 & 5 >> with no bug and 4.8 & 5 with the bug. >> Changing the critical line to "put loop && round(loop) mod 5 & return >> after msg" disposes of the error so I it seems to be a trailing digits >> error in real arithmetic rather than a logical bug as such. "5 mod 5" >> of course always produces 0. > > This is discouraging. I typed ".2 + .2 + .2 + .2 + .2 = 10 into the > message window and got false. So did I but my discouragement was alleviated by typing ".2 + .2 + .2 + .2 + .2 = 1" !! :-) > I assume by real you mean floating point, as typically implemented by > computer hardware, a number with a binary point. I don't see anything > in the documentation as numbers being sometimes implemented as floating > point. I don't know about the documentation but I mean with a sign, mantissa and exponent rather than BCD or integer. You can force this format, I believe, by taking an integer and raising it to a power, e.g. put 4^1 into x makes x a floating point number in the terms I suggest. If the number were BCD then I would not expect the failure Ian discovered, any more than you would for integer. Mod, incidentally, is (or was) intended as an integer function rather than one for real (floating point) numbers. > > I wouldn't mind this if it is transparent. As long as a value looks > and acts like a string, I don't care how it is stored internally. > > As far as rounding, without evidence to the contrary one would have to > assume that numbers are rounded to a decimal point rather than to a > binary point. (Numbers don't have to be represented in decimal for a > decimal point to be maintained, but they often are.) > > The implication is that applications that need a decimal point need to > have lots of special code. Not really. Treat it as one of string, integer or floating point (s, m, e) and BCD or "binary point" can take care of themselves. Incidentally, we are still working on that comparative challenge you set us, Dar. cheers David > Dar Scott > > _______________________________________________ > use-revolution mailing list > use-revolution at lists.runrev.com > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution > From troy at rpsystems.net Fri Mar 29 00:25:01 2002 From: troy at rpsystems.net (Troy Rollins) Date: Fri Mar 29 00:25:01 2002 Subject: Hot Girls And Wild Horses! (Rev & MX) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20C87FC1-42D5-11D6-B980-000393853D6C@rpsystems.net> On Thursday, March 28, 2002, at 10:45 AM, Wayne Townsend wrote: > I think that this combination of Rev and FlashMX truly gives us the > tools to build the next level of applications. We have been working > for years with Flash4 & Flamethrower, with very good results, and have > a lot of info to share if you're interested. Wayne, There is already starting a fair amount of discussion on this topic here. It seems several (many?) of us are looking toward a potential combination of Flash MX and Revolution. I'm sure anything you have to offer would be welcome. For my company (so far) MX development and Rev development are independent of each other. I would like to consider integrating them, but would also be interested in the challenges such a solution has solved for you in the past, and what you are looking toward doing with the pair (in a little more detail). Certainly sounds like a lively topic anyway... Cheers. -- Troy RPSystems www.rpsystems.net From dsc at swcp.com Fri Mar 29 00:54:01 2002 From: dsc at swcp.com (Dar Scott) Date: Fri Mar 29 00:54:01 2002 Subject: MOD function does not work! So be warned! In-Reply-To: <0E142BC0-42D4-11D6-8E10-000393598038@mac.com> Message-ID: <8CCE737E-42D8-11D6-9E8D-0050E4C0B205@swcp.com> On Thursday, March 28, 2002, at 10:15 PM, David Vaughan wrote: >> This is discouraging. I typed ".2 + .2 + .2 + .2 + .2 = 10 into >> the message window and got false. > So did I but my discouragement was alleviated by typing ".2 + .2 + > .2 + .2 + .2 = 1" !! :-) How embarrassing!! Dar From drvaughan55 at mac.com Fri Mar 29 01:05:01 2002 From: drvaughan55 at mac.com (David Vaughan) Date: Fri Mar 29 01:05:01 2002 Subject: MOD function does not work! So be warned! In-Reply-To: <8CCE737E-42D8-11D6-9E8D-0050E4C0B205@swcp.com> Message-ID: On Friday, March 29, 2002, at 04:48 , Dar Scott wrote: > > On Thursday, March 28, 2002, at 10:15 PM, David Vaughan wrote: > >>> This is discouraging. I typed ".2 + .2 + .2 + .2 + .2 = 10 into the >>> message window and got false. >> So did I but my discouragement was alleviated by typing ".2 + .2 + >> .2 + .2 + .2 = 1" !! :-) > > How embarrassing!! Dar No worries and it was worth a chuckle. Actually, I did indeed copy your code into the message box exactly as you had it, got false, then experimentally typed in "put .8 + .2 = 10" and finally noticed just before I hit the enter key... ;-) David > > Dar > > > _______________________________________________ > use-revolution mailing list > use-revolution at lists.runrev.com > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution > From dsc at swcp.com Fri Mar 29 01:06:01 2002 From: dsc at swcp.com (Dar Scott) Date: Fri Mar 29 01:06:01 2002 Subject: MOD function does not work! So be warned! In-Reply-To: <0E142BC0-42D4-11D6-8E10-000393598038@mac.com> Message-ID: <3BD6FB80-42DA-11D6-9E8D-0050E4C0B205@swcp.com> On Thursday, March 28, 2002, at 10:15 PM, David Vaughan wrote: > Mod, incidentally, is (or was) intended as an integer function > rather than one for real (floating point) numbers. The doc says nothing about this. I'm disappointed that we are reduced to talking about int and real, programmer jargon. Mathematically, depending on usage, mod is defined over real (in the math sense). >> The implication is that applications that need a decimal point >> need to have lots of special code. > > Not really. Treat it as one of string, integer or floating point > (s, m, e) and BCD or "binary point" can take care of themselves. I don't understand. I don't know of types in Revolution (except string vs array). Suppose I want to keep up with money. If I understand the implications of Ian's experiment, my books might not balance. Dar Scott From gcanyon at inspiredlogic.com Fri Mar 29 01:36:00 2002 From: gcanyon at inspiredlogic.com (Geoff Canyon) Date: Fri Mar 29 01:36:00 2002 Subject: The Day Today is... ummm.... In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: At 11:34 AM +1100 3/29/02, Matt Denton wrote: >This is a question for other users on various OS's, with various localised System Times: > >On my OSX System, 10.1.3 > >"put the system WeekdayNames" > >returns: > > Saturday > Sunday > Monday > Tuesday > Wednesday > Thursday > Friday > >and > >"put the WeekdayNames" > >returns: > > Sunday > Monday > Tuesday > Wednesday > Thursday > Friday > Saturday On my OS X 10.1.3 box, I got Sunday through Saturday for both. -- regards, Geoff Canyon gcanyon at inspiredlogic.com From drvaughan55 at mac.com Fri Mar 29 02:37:01 2002 From: drvaughan55 at mac.com (David Vaughan) Date: Fri Mar 29 02:37:01 2002 Subject: The Day Today is... ummm.... In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <8F70BFA4-42E7-11D6-8E10-000393598038@mac.com> On Friday, March 29, 2002, at 05:34 , Geoff Canyon wrote: > At 11:34 AM +1100 3/29/02, Matt Denton wrote: >> This is a question for other users on various OS's, with various >> localised System Times: >> >> On my OSX System, 10.1.3 >> >> "put the system WeekdayNames" >> >> returns: >> >> Saturday >> Sunday snip >> "put the WeekdayNames" >> returns: >> >> Sunday >> Monday snip > > On my OS X 10.1.3 box, I got Sunday through Saturday for both. So we know at least it is an Australia problem (Matt and I both saw it and are in Oz) and not a US one. I wonder what happens in Japan? Any word on Britain, Europe, South Africa? David > -- > > regards, > > Geoff Canyon > gcanyon at inspiredlogic.com > _______________________________________________ > use-revolution mailing list > use-revolution at lists.runrev.com > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution > From dsc at swcp.com Fri Mar 29 02:47:02 2002 From: dsc at swcp.com (Dar Scott) Date: Fri Mar 29 02:47:02 2002 Subject: MOD function does not work! So be warned! In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <600DDA52-42E8-11D6-9E8D-0050E4C0B205@swcp.com> On Thursday, March 28, 2002, at 11:04 PM, David Vaughan wrote: > No worries and it was worth a chuckle. Actually, I did indeed copy > your code into the message box exactly as you had it, got false, > then experimentally typed in > "put .8 + .2 = 10" > and finally noticed just before I hit the enter key... ;-) Here is a better example: on mouseUp put "235.00" into var repeat for 100 times put var + "0.01" into var end repeat Put var && (var = "236.00") into field "Report" end mouseUp This puts "236 false" into the field. This works as hoped (for cent arithmetic): on mouseUp put "235.00" into var repeat for 100 times put round(var + "0.01",2) into var end repeat Put var && (var = "236.00") into field "Report" end mouseUp Dar From webmaster at studioalice.se Fri Mar 29 02:48:01 2002 From: webmaster at studioalice.se (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Magnus_von_Br=F6msen?=) Date: Fri Mar 29 02:48:01 2002 Subject: Sending mail on Windows? In-Reply-To: <001001c1d5a7$a3c1db10$7c00a8c0@mckinley.dom> Message-ID: Thanks Ken, that was quit a bit different from the mac-way. I had never figured out that for myself. /magnus On onsdag, mars 27, 2002, at 04:54 , Ken Ray wrote: > Magnus, > > Here's the code I use (the Windows part): > > on SendMail tMailTo > put queryRegistry("HKEY_CLASSES_ROOT\mailto\shell\open\command\" into > tMailApp > if tMailApp = "" then exit SendMail > if (quote & "%1" & quote is in tMailApp then replace quote & "%1" & > quote > with tMailTo in tMailApp > if "%1" is in tMailApp then replace %1 with tMailTo in tMailApp > open process tMailApp for neither > end SendMail > > Called by something like: > > on mouseUp > SendMail "ken at sonsothunder.com" > end mouseUp > > The funky "%1" situations are based on experience. Sometimes the > registry > key will just have an Application, like: > > "c:\program files\myMailApp\myMailApp.exe" > > Other times it will be quoted, like: > > "c:\program files\my mail app\myMailApp.exe" "%1" > > And occasionally like this: > > "c:\program files\my mail app\my MailApp.exe %1" > > This code takes care of all those situations. > > Ken Ray > Sons of Thunder Software > Email: kray at sonsothunder.com > Web Site: http://www.sonsothunder.com/ > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Magnus von Br?msen" > To: > Sent: Wednesday, March 27, 2002 9:37 AM > Subject: Sending mail on Windows? > > >> Hello >> >> Om macintosh you can use: >> revGoURL "mailto:webmaster at studioalice.se" >> >> But, how do you do it on Windows? In the Transcript Dictionary it says >> that "mailto" is mac-only. >> >> (Mr. Cozens, thanks for the tip about file extension.) >> >> /magnus von br?msen >> >> >> -------------------------------------------------------------------------- >> "Man skall inte ropa hej f?rr?n pc'n ?r skjuten" >> -------------------------------------------------------------------------- >> Studio Alice >> Magnus von Br?msen >> 0702-212 495 >> 0322-633 833 >> www.studioalice.se >> >> _______________________________________________ >> use-revolution mailing list >> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution >> > > _______________________________________________ > use-revolution mailing list > use-revolution at lists.runrev.com > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution > From webmaster at studioalice.se Fri Mar 29 02:58:01 2002 From: webmaster at studioalice.se (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Magnus_von_Br=F6msen?=) Date: Fri Mar 29 02:58:01 2002 Subject: Sending mail on Windows? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <6A7D7C82-42EA-11D6-BC94-003065CCBD1A@studioalice.se> On onsdag, mars 27, 2002, at 06:16 , Rob Cozens wrote: > I hope you picked up on my second note that the handlers were not > working correctly for me...and please call me Rob (or "you damned > foole" in cases where it is more appropriate). Okay, Rob. I solved it in another way (that I think is better for computer-illiterate). If there are any other rookies (like me) out there, who wants to save a text with different extension, here is the script: on mouseUp answer "Choose one" with "Excel" or "Word" or "Plain Text" or "Cancel" if it is "Excel" then ask file "Save order as:" with "Untitled" with filter "Excel file,*.xls" if it is empty then exit mouseUp put field "OrderData" into url ("file:" & it & ".xls") else if it is "Word" then ask file "Save order as:" with "Untitled" with filter "Word file,*.doc" if it is empty then exit mouseUp put field "OrderData" into url ("file:" & it & ".doc") else if it is "Plain Text" then ask file "Save order as:" with "Untitled" with filter "Plain Text file,*.txt" if it is empty then exit mouseUp put field "OrderData" into url ("file:" & it & ".txt") end if end if end if end mouseUp /Magnus von Bromsen ------------------------------------------------------------------- "Br?nt barn skyr Windows." ------------------------------------------------------------------- Studio Alice Magnus von Br?msen 0702-212 495 0322-633 833 www.studioalice.se From CARETTE.Pierre-Marie at wanadoo.fr Fri Mar 29 03:02:01 2002 From: CARETTE.Pierre-Marie at wanadoo.fr (Pierre-Marie CARETTE) Date: Fri Mar 29 03:02:01 2002 Subject: hierarchical menus Message-ID: for "Ivers, Doug E" on createPrefMenu -- this is called in preOpenStack -- create Preferences menu contents with tab in front of each font name --- (to make the font list a submenu) -- prerequisite: a button "Preferences" in group "menubar0" --- put return &the fontNames into tabFontList replace return with return & tab in tabFontList put "Font" & tabFontList into button "Preferences" of group "menubar0" end createPrefMenu The tabkey use and doesn't use in field-text-properties palette. Solution Write the menu in a fld copy paste in the text of the properties palette et hop ! it works Revolution is very quick. You can build your menu in a handler "moueenter". It will be ready when the user "mousedown". Revolution is very very quickly (I i compare with my old Hypercard) I even build menus in the same handler "mousedown" From webmaster at studioalice.se Fri Mar 29 03:04:00 2002 From: webmaster at studioalice.se (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Magnus_von_Br=F6msen?=) Date: Fri Mar 29 03:04:00 2002 Subject: The Day Today is... ummm.... In-Reply-To: <8F70BFA4-42E7-11D6-8E10-000393598038@mac.com> Message-ID: <4A9AE1E3-42EB-11D6-BC94-003065CCBD1A@studioalice.se> In Sweden (nearly Europe =)) I get from Sunday through Saturday for both /Magnus von Br?msen On fredag, mars 29, 2002, at 08:35 , David Vaughan wrote: > > On Friday, March 29, 2002, at 05:34 , Geoff Canyon wrote: > >> At 11:34 AM +1100 3/29/02, Matt Denton wrote: >>> This is a question for other users on various OS's, with various >>> localised System Times: >>> >>> On my OSX System, 10.1.3 >>> >>> "put the system WeekdayNames" >>> >>> returns: >>> >>> Saturday >>> Sunday > snip >>> "put the WeekdayNames" >>> returns: >>> >>> Sunday >>> Monday > snip >> >> On my OS X 10.1.3 box, I got Sunday through Saturday for both. > > So we know at least it is an Australia problem (Matt and I both saw it > and are in Oz) and not a US one. I wonder what happens in Japan? Any > word on Britain, Europe, South Africa? > > David >> -- >> >> regards, >> >> Geoff Canyon >> gcanyon at inspiredlogic.com >> _______________________________________________ >> use-revolution mailing list >> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution >> > > _______________________________________________ > use-revolution mailing list > use-revolution at lists.runrev.com > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution > From drvaughan55 at mac.com Fri Mar 29 03:17:01 2002 From: drvaughan55 at mac.com (David Vaughan) Date: Fri Mar 29 03:17:01 2002 Subject: MOD function does not work! So be warned! In-Reply-To: <3BD6FB80-42DA-11D6-9E8D-0050E4C0B205@swcp.com> Message-ID: <4862DD52-42ED-11D6-8E10-000393598038@mac.com> On Friday, March 29, 2002, at 05:00 , Dar Scott wrote: > > The doc says nothing about this. > > I'm disappointed that we are reduced to talking about int and real, > programmer jargon. > >>> The implication is that applications that need a decimal point need >>> to have lots of special code. >> >> Not really. Treat it as one of string, integer or floating point (s, >> m, e) and BCD or "binary point" can take care of themselves. > > I don't understand. I don't know of types in Revolution (except string > vs array). Suppose I want to keep up with money. If I understand the > implications of Ian's experiment, my books might not balance. Rev is not a strongly typed language but I never expected that _all_ issues of data types would disappear. A solution (use round when it must be integer, raise to the power 1 when it must be floating point and concatenate with empty for a string) is straightforward enough and rarely needed. Incidentally, MS Excel fails the following test mod(12.3,1.23) = 0 where rev gets it right so MC is not alone in having issues with mod (Excel produces a residual of about 1e-15; not zero). Further, some languages will, I believe, say that "-340 mod 60" is 20 or -20 (arguable) where the MC engine fairly rationally says -40 so that is another one to consider. I have had to compel the data type once or twice in HC and the same stack(s) in RR but a general awareness of the possibility is usually sufficient not to get caught by it. A bit like deliberately over-using parentheses to make sure the compiler understands you; just being safe. Perhaps some notes could be added to the documentation to raise this awareness for all. regards David > > Dar Scott > > > _______________________________________________ > use-revolution mailing list > use-revolution at lists.runrev.com > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution > From dsc at swcp.com Fri Mar 29 03:27:01 2002 From: dsc at swcp.com (Dar Scott) Date: Fri Mar 29 03:27:01 2002 Subject: File I/O, Arrays, and Databases in Revolution In-Reply-To: <3CA3473D.B189C37@umich.edu> Message-ID: On Thursday, March 28, 2002, at 09:39 AM, Dennis F. Kahlbaum wrote: > Every line of these files are > of mixed type: character fields, integer number fields, real number > fields, scientific notation fields, etc. Take care of end-of-line representation, your FORTRAN output may not represent those the same way as Revolution. See the note in the Transcript Dictionary under "linefeed". Dar Scott From dsc at swcp.com Fri Mar 29 03:56:01 2002 From: dsc at swcp.com (Dar Scott) Date: Fri Mar 29 03:56:01 2002 Subject: MOD function does not work! So be warned! In-Reply-To: <4862DD52-42ED-11D6-8E10-000393598038@mac.com> Message-ID: <08BF5ECC-42F2-11D6-9E8D-0050E4C0B205@swcp.com> On Friday, March 29, 2002, at 01:16 AM, David Vaughan wrote: > A solution (use round when it must be integer, raise to the power > 1 when it must be floating point and concatenate with empty for a > string) is straightforward enough and rarely needed. I don't think I understand how to use this. Case in point: put ("8" & empty) < ("33" & empty) --> true These numeral values compare as numbers. I can't "make" them be strings. I realize there is a lot of heritage behind this, but I would have been happier to discover I could not tell there was any representation other than strings. ...to discover that arithmetic has a simple numeral-to-number-to-(limited)-numeral semantics. I would have been please to learn something like, "Numerals with less than 20 digits represent numbers. An arithmetic function on numerals returns an exact representation of the result if it can be represented in 20 or less digits, otherwise ..." It is kind of strange to find that there are some x such that "B" & x = "B236" is true but x = 236 is false. Dar Scott From drvaughan55 at mac.com Fri Mar 29 04:08:01 2002 From: drvaughan55 at mac.com (David Vaughan) Date: Fri Mar 29 04:08:01 2002 Subject: MOD function does not work! So be warned! In-Reply-To: <08BF5ECC-42F2-11D6-9E8D-0050E4C0B205@swcp.com> Message-ID: <4F142FCE-42F4-11D6-8E10-000393598038@mac.com> On Friday, March 29, 2002, at 07:50 , Dar Scott wrote: > > On Friday, March 29, 2002, at 01:16 AM, David Vaughan wrote: > >> A solution (use round when it must be integer, raise to the power 1 >> when it must be floating point and concatenate with empty for a >> string) is straightforward enough and rarely needed. > > I don't think I understand how to use this. > > Case in point: > put ("8" & empty) < ("33" & empty) --> true > These numeral values compare as numbers. I can't "make" them be > strings. um... true. You actually have to append a space, not empty. There's one for me. > > I realize there is a lot of heritage behind this, but I would have been > happier to discover I could not tell there was any representation other > than strings. ...to discover that arithmetic has a simple > numeral-to-number-to-(limited)-numeral semantics. I would have been > please to learn something like, "Numerals with less than 20 digits > represent numbers. An arithmetic function on numerals returns an exact > representation of the result if it can be represented in 20 or less > digits, otherwise ..." > > It is kind of strange to find that there are some x such that "B" & x = > "B236" is true but x = 236 is false. > > Dar Scott > > _______________________________________________ > use-revolution mailing list > use-revolution at lists.runrev.com > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution > From dsc at swcp.com Fri Mar 29 04:12:01 2002 From: dsc at swcp.com (Dar Scott) Date: Fri Mar 29 04:12:01 2002 Subject: MOD function does not work! So be warned! In-Reply-To: <4862DD52-42ED-11D6-8E10-000393598038@mac.com> Message-ID: <3238181D-42F4-11D6-9E8D-0050E4C0B205@swcp.com> On Friday, March 29, 2002, at 01:16 AM, David Vaughan wrote: > concatenate with empty for a string OK. I found a good example that puts that to use. Here a "floating point" that does not equal 236 (but evaluates to "236" when needed as a string) is converted to a string and then (virtually, if not really) back to a number for comparison. on mouseUp put "235.00" into var repeat for 100 times put var + "0.01" into var end repeat Put (empty & var) = "236.00" into field "Report" end mouseUp This reports true, but if (empty & var) was replaced with var, this would report false. I still find it weird that there are x such that (empty & x) = x is false. How am I going to explain this to a bunch of little kids? Dar From waynet at absolute.net Fri Mar 29 04:15:00 2002 From: waynet at absolute.net (Wayne Townsend) Date: Fri Mar 29 04:15:00 2002 Subject: Hot Girls And Wild Horses! (Rev & MX) In-Reply-To: <20C87FC1-42D5-11D6-B980-000393853D6C@rpsystems.net> References: <20C87FC1-42D5-11D6-B980-000393853D6C@rpsystems.net> Message-ID: Hi Troy, Multi-player on-line gaming is a great test case for Rev, because gaming really pushes the systems. Bingo especially. Here you have a lot of people who need to be on the same page, and it's very time sensitive. The Bing-Go-Go game at http://www.palmspringsbingo.com/sgn for example is a high-speed version that plays a new game *every minute*. Under Flamethrower, we've often averaged a couple hundred people, with 4 cards each, playing with each other continuously. This goes on around the clock. For that game alone, there are 25 focused cgis, that work together and share memory. -They're also passing off data to another DB. We have G4s serving & running the game, and an NT SQL db that the cgis hand the live game data feed off to. I've been very happy with the results of Flamethrower, but to ramp the games up to very large scale, we need to operate with sockets, and cross-platform servers, which Rev does, and that is why I'm here. Haven't built any websites with anything other than Flash for several years now. I'm very jazzed about the new possibilities enabled by MX. It's unfortunate that so many developers think of Flash as an animation tool first, and just use it for intros. Artists! Sheesh. That's *really* missing out on the available technology. To me, Flash is a cross-platform browser scripting language first. For those unaware, in MX, the language is very Javascript-like. AS is based on the ECMA-262 Javascript standard. Some differences are that AS does not support some browser specific objects such as document, window, or anchor, and does not completely support all of the predefined Javascript objects. It also doesn't support some constructs like switch, continue, try, catch & throw. It doesn't support Unicode; it supports ISO 8859-1 and Shift-JIS character sets. At any rate, the above hasn't slowed us down at all in regard to building demanding web applications. Also, I'm not far enough into MX yet to know if any of the above has changed. It might have. AS does support some syntax constructs that are not permitted in Javascript, however. Also, AS performs cross-platform very well, which you can't say about Javascript, or Java. All IMHO, of course. Now, on-line gaming development may not be your bag, but the work done in it, I believe, is paving the way for other serious on-line community applications to come, especially in Education. That's a huge market for developers, and IMO has never been done really well in the past. >would also be interested in the challenges such a solution has >solved for you in the past To be honest, the most difficult ones in the past have been in the way the various browsers have handled TCP. There are lots of undocumented gotchas out there. The least of our problems have been with Flamethrower and Flash, although the earlier Flash required some real programming tricks to get AS to perform the way we needed it to. As far as I'm concerned, the last ball & chain is Flash's purposely hobbled writing to local disks. If I could build a local Rev cgi engine that (browser) MX could communicate with as it does now with server cgis, I'd be a happy camper. The best new features of MX? Loading jpegs on the fly just like load movies, and the internal video. For us it means bye bye to Real, QT, and WMP. Plus the video experience is totally scriptable and interactive to the Flash presentation when it's embedded this way. The sorenson codec they're using is sweet indeed. >For my company (so far) MX development and Rev development are >independent of each other. You might want to reconsider that approach. There is a serious advantage to an author understanding both the Flash client side and Rev server side, and how they interact with each other. How far each can push each other, etc. This really speeds up development, and produces a much higher quality result. Anyway, the problem really isn't the available technology, especially now. It's in getting developers to think in terms of web/browser-based applications instead of desktop applications. There's a whole world of them out there waiting to be developed. ATB, /w >On Thursday, March 28, 2002, at 10:45 AM, Wayne Townsend wrote: > >>I think that this combination of Rev and FlashMX truly gives us the >>tools to build the next level of applications. We have been >>working for years with Flash4 & Flamethrower, with very good >>results, and have a lot of info to share if you're interested. > >Wayne, >There is already starting a fair amount of discussion on this topic >here. It seems several (many?) of us are looking toward a potential >combination of Flash MX and Revolution. I'm sure anything you have >to offer would be welcome. For my company (so far) MX development >and Rev development are independent of each other. I would like to >consider integrating them, but would also be interested in the >challenges such a solution has solved for you in the past, and what >you are looking toward doing with the pair (in a little more detail). > >Certainly sounds like a lively topic anyway... > >Cheers. > >-- >Troy >RPSystems >www.rpsystems.net Wayne Townsend Founder, Accesson relax... play Bingo with your friends... http://www.PalmSpringsBingo.com/sgn waynet at accesson.net Alt: waynet at absolute.net http://www.accesson.net Studio: Yucca Valley, CA 760.228.2301 From dsc at swcp.com Fri Mar 29 04:18:01 2002 From: dsc at swcp.com (Dar Scott) Date: Fri Mar 29 04:18:01 2002 Subject: MOD function does not work! So be warned! In-Reply-To: <4F142FCE-42F4-11D6-8E10-000393598038@mac.com> Message-ID: <13E72D44-42F5-11D6-9E8D-0050E4C0B205@swcp.com> On Friday, March 29, 2002, at 02:06 AM, David Vaughan wrote: >> Case in point: >> put ("8" & empty) < ("33" & empty) --> true >> These numeral values compare as numbers. I can't "make" them be >> strings. > um... true. You actually have to append a space, not empty. > There's one for me. LOL. I tried spaces on either end. They still compare as representing numbers. But that other example I found. That is a good place to concatenate empty. I think the problem is that when an alternate representation of a number is converted to a string, the string is not always a numeral of the number represented. A value in that case has sort of a "split personality". dar From pdel at noos.fr Fri Mar 29 07:39:01 2002 From: pdel at noos.fr (Pierre Delain) Date: Fri Mar 29 07:39:01 2002 Subject: Insertion Point In-Reply-To: <200203281705.MAA24892@www.runrev.com> Message-ID: Thanks to Sarah for having confirmed that my Insertion Point problem was not a dream and sorry for my unvoluntary Natexis Banques Populaires message... Pierre Delain From michael at GreppyDreppies.com Fri Mar 29 08:02:01 2002 From: michael at GreppyDreppies.com (Michael D Mays) Date: Fri Mar 29 08:02:01 2002 Subject: MOD function does not work! So be warned! In-Reply-To: Message-ID: [I sent this message the first time from the wrong account. If it comes through twice, sorry--mdm] The MOD function works. The ROUND function might not. Decimal 0.1 when converted to binary is actually slightly greater than decimal 0.1. Set the numberFormat to something very precise and you will see that .1 is really 0.10000000000000000555111512312578 When you keep adding increment eventually you reach a point where the sum of all those 5.5e-19ths (if I counted right) become significant to the MOD function. I think David Vaughan has said all this already but it is a very important point. But the round is NOT the way to go on mouseUp put 1 +.1 into aa put aa into line 1 of fld 1 set the numberFormat to \ "0.######################################################################" put aa into line 2 of fld 1 put round(aa,1) into line 3 of fld 1 end mouseUp fld 1 is 1.1 1.1000000000000000888178419700125 1.0999999999999998667732370449812 I don't see it in MetaCard 2.2.3 (line 2 and 3 are the same in 2.2.3) but the results are the same as above in MC2.4.1. I think this might be a BUG. If you want to be testing as is in this example increments of tenths, I something like set the numberFormat to "0.#" and add the line put loop&"" into loop to your repeat clause. michael Ian Summerfield of iansummerfield at btconnect.com wrote the following on 3/28/02 9:53 PM > The code I give here might look inefficient, the code comes from a large > project, so there are reasons for doing it this way! > > It's just taken me several hours to figure out why my code wasn't working, > and it turns out to be a bug in Revolution. > > Revolution 1.1.1b2 (OS X 10.1.3) seems to think 5 mod 5 = 5 whereas it is > zero. > > > Try this code: > > on mouseup > put 235 into startPoint > put 255 into endPoint > put 0.1 into increment > put empty into msg > put startPoint into loop > repeat while loop<=endPoint > put loop && loop mod 5 & return after msg > add increment to loop > end repeat > end mouseup > > It will output to the message box a list of numbers. The loop counter is on > each line followed by a space and the loop mod 5. > > Here's my output: > > 235 0 <<<<---- correct > 235.1 0.1 > 235.2 0.2 > 235.3 0.3 > <> > 240 5 <<<<---- wrong and impossible > 240.1 0.1 From steve at messimercomputing.com Fri Mar 29 10:02:01 2002 From: steve at messimercomputing.com (Steve Messimer) Date: Fri Mar 29 10:02:01 2002 Subject: pasting objects Message-ID: Hi, I am having problems writing a script that pastes an objects from a plug-in to any other stack. When I do this the target button does get pasted but then an error message pops up that aborts the remainder of the script. the problem code hilited by the debugger is ... paste btn bGOName here's the pertinent part of the script. -- creates new btn in destination stack copy btn bGOName -- bGOName is a var that holds the name of the bGO push card open stack targetStack -- this is the topStack go to card id targetCard -- the id of the current card of the topStack paste btn bGOName -- this is the code that always invokes the debugger -- I'm wondering if this problem is somehow related to the menu bar's -- status even tho the Paste Objects menu item is active in the plug-in it -- may not be in the tarrget stack.