From shaosean at unitz.ca Fri Feb 1 00:01:01 2002 From: shaosean at unitz.ca (Shao Sean) Date: Fri Feb 1 00:01:01 2002 Subject: Socket buffer size References: <005a01c1aa8b$9c6cda00$2a45fea9@mantissasp4600> Message-ID: <003d01c1aadd$239a1780$88b15bd1@dreamlanpc> i don't think you can set it per se, but you can always tell it to wait for a certain amount of chars (or a sequence of chars) on readDataFromSocket pSocketPointer read from socket pSocketPointer until 20 chars with message "gotData" end readDataFromSocket on gotData pSocketPointer, pSocketData -- do the processing of your socket here end gotData ----- Original Message ----- Anyone know of a way to set the socket receive buffer size for REV? From chipp at chipp.com Fri Feb 1 00:25:01 2002 From: chipp at chipp.com (Chipp Walters) Date: Fri Feb 1 00:25:01 2002 Subject: Pocket PC In-Reply-To: Message-ID: I, too would pay for a seperate version for PocketPC or Palm. -----Original Message----- From: use-revolution-admin at lists.runrev.com [mailto:use-revolution-admin at lists.runrev.com]On Behalf Of JohnRule at aol.com Sent: Thursday, January 31, 2002 10:15 AM To: use-revolution at lists.runrev.com Subject: Pocket PC I would pay for a seperate version (i.e. the Pocket PC version of Revolution) if that's what you have to do! Doesn't anyone else see the value in this capability? Think 'wireless' Pocket PC and maybe the light bulbs will go on... JR > Wouldn't it be great if we could program in TranScript for PalmOS and > PocketPC too? :-) We're looking at these, though Palm really has a very different OS so is most unlikely. However the other one wouldn't be so hard and might well happen if we get enough requests. Kind regards, Kevin -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From troy at rpsystems.net Fri Feb 1 00:56:01 2002 From: troy at rpsystems.net (Troy Rollins) Date: Fri Feb 1 00:56:01 2002 Subject: Pocket PC In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Chipp Walters wrote: > I, too would pay for a seperate version for PocketPC or Palm. Yep. Even better if it were like an output module, with the ability to select PocketPC as the build type. -- Troy RPSystems www.rpsystems.net From tim11 at bellatlantic.net Fri Feb 1 02:08:01 2002 From: tim11 at bellatlantic.net (Tim) Date: Fri Feb 1 02:08:01 2002 Subject: Character sets and Windows Message-ID: Does Revolution support international character sets (encoding) on Windows platform? I ask this because a field shows different language fonts without a problem on a Mac, but the same stack on Windows does not. TIA, -- Tim From sbouju at mac.com Fri Feb 1 02:10:01 2002 From: sbouju at mac.com (Sylvain Bouju) Date: Fri Feb 1 02:10:01 2002 Subject: Help needed with popup menu... Message-ID: I am planing to program a popup menu (hierarchical if possible) which interacts with a locked field, or the clicked line of this field, or even an item of this clicked line. I have understood that I need at least an intermediary button with this menu property in order to simulate a popup field. How can I: - choose a font size for this popup menu? - choose a loc for the poping (or pre-select an item)? - get some result of the user choosen item (sub item) of this menu? -- Sylvain Bouju sbouju at bigfoot.com -- From yvescoppe at skynet.be Fri Feb 1 02:34:01 2002 From: yvescoppe at skynet.be (yves COPPE) Date: Fri Feb 1 02:34:01 2002 Subject: Help needed with popup menu... In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: >I am planing to program a popup menu (hierarchical if >possible) which interacts with a locked field, or the >clicked line of this field, or even an item of this >clicked line. > >I have understood that I need at least an intermediary >button with this menu property in order to simulate >a popup field. > >How can I: > >- choose a font size for this popup menu? >- choose a loc for the poping (or pre-select an item)? >- get some result of the user choosen item (sub item) >of this menu? > >-- >Sylvain Bouju >sbouju at bigfoot.com >-- > font size : select your object with the pointer tool, choose the font size you want in the text menu pre-select an item : look at the menuhistory property in the transcript dictionary get some result of the user choosen item : get the selectectedtext of your object For a hierarchical menu : type the parent item then return and tab and type your submenu : it will appear as a submenu. cheers -- Greetings. Yves COPPE Email : yvescoppe at skynet.be From yvescoppe at skynet.be Fri Feb 1 02:34:04 2002 From: yvescoppe at skynet.be (yves COPPE) Date: Fri Feb 1 02:34:04 2002 Subject: Print Message-ID: Hello, I'm here again with printing problem : 1) is it possible to get a preview of your print (to save some paper and ink) ? 2) I've a fld in column (tabstops). When I print the field, the columns are not retained on the printed page. I use the printext command because I have to add other text to that fld. can someone help me about this ? Thanks. -- Greetings. Yves COPPE Email : yvescoppe at skynet.be From yvescoppe at skynet.be Fri Feb 1 03:56:01 2002 From: yvescoppe at skynet.be (yves COPPE) Date: Fri Feb 1 03:56:01 2002 Subject: Building a file Message-ID: Hello, I've a stack : - main stack is the splash screen - many substacks with data and scripts I'd like to build a stand alone or a file with this condition : I want to make some upgrade and amelioration to my scripts later without loosing my data. So I'd like my substacks are editable in RR. I've tried to build my application but I don't find the trick. When I look in the data folder, I don't find the substacks. I add that I've changed the name of the data folder in the "build" stack. Makes that any difference. Which options must I check before building to get what I whish ? Thanks. -- From tim11 at bellatlantic.net Fri Feb 1 04:47:01 2002 From: tim11 at bellatlantic.net (Tim) Date: Fri Feb 1 04:47:01 2002 Subject: Building a file In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On 2/1/02 3:55 AM, "yves COPPE" wrote: > Hello, > > I've a stack : > - main stack is the splash screen > - many substacks with data and scripts > > I'd like to build a stand alone or a file with this condition : > > I want to make some upgrade and amelioration to my scripts later > without loosing my data. So I'd like my substacks are editable in RR. > I've tried to build my application but I don't find the trick. > When I look in the data folder, I don't find the substacks. > > I add that I've changed the name of the data folder in the "build" stack. > Makes that any difference. > Which options must I check before building to get what I whish ? > > Thanks. Go to Distribution Builder, click on the Stacks tab, in there, on the bottom you'll see: Keep substacks in main file/Move substacks into individual files. Choose the latter, and it should be OK. -- Tim From yvescoppe at skynet.be Fri Feb 1 06:06:01 2002 From: yvescoppe at skynet.be (yves COPPE) Date: Fri Feb 1 06:06:01 2002 Subject: Building a file In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: > >Go to Distribution Builder, click on the Stacks tab, in there, on the bottom >you'll see: Keep substacks in main file/Move substacks into individual >files. Choose the latter, and it should be OK. >-- >Tim > The building stops at the message : "Now setting Profile options on stack Specification?" I have no stack "Specification" in my files? The result is nothing works? What ? Thanks. -- Greetings. Yves COPPE Email : yvescoppe at skynet.be From wmb at internettrainer.com Fri Feb 1 07:39:01 2002 From: wmb at internettrainer.com (Wolfgang M. Bereuter) Date: Fri Feb 1 07:39:01 2002 Subject: Copying parts of pictures to the front In-Reply-To: <200201301003.FAA20027@www.runrev.com> Message-ID: Hallo Ken, I do not really understand what?s you intention. I think my english or muy programming knowledge or both are not good enough. But I can describe you what I have done to solve a similar(?) problem: I have a lot of buttons of different sizes in some cards in some stacks, wich all must open/close hidden fields (or images, and so on...) with only "one click" I make the buttons (gif) in another programm (you can do it in a drawing, painting or button maker programm and export (screen shots) them *all as one image* (gif better then pict - small and compatible). Then I import this gif to rev (as background = 1. Layer) and set invisible buttons and fields above it make a button script to show/hide In my case there are up to 30 Buttons of different sizes on relativly small cards (Map 744*552). There can be much more, if the buttons are small or the cards are big... The big time saver of this system is: If you have to change one ore more buttons, you do the change in the drawing programm and replace the "old" gif in rev; - all invisible buttons remain untouched You have only to import it and set it to the 1. layer. Thats is a job for about 2-3 minutes. If you have changed the size of the buttons (on the gif), then you can adjust the dimension of the invisible buttons (in rev) apart, fast and simple. I could not do this in iShell, because it was not fast enough changing the cards/maps. It needed up to 4(!) seconds with only 6-8 cards. But the UI of iShell is still unmatched. The big thing of rev is imho: do the behavior of the buttons in it - but not the buttons "itself" Here you can see a demo of muy Maps (sorry at the moment german only): http://www.internettrainer.com/4service/1service.html Click on coloured symbols - thats all. I can describe it more detailed offline, if this idea works for you. regards Wolfgang M. Bereuter Learn easy with trainingsmaps and outliner INTERNETTRAINER Wolfgang M. Bereuter Edelhofg. 17/11, A-1180 Wien, Austria ............................... http://www.internettrainer.com wmb at internettrainer.com ............................... Tel: ++43/1/ 961 0418 Fax: ++43/1/ 479 2539 --------- > Von: use-revolution-request at lists.runrev.com > Antworten an: use-revolution at lists.runrev.com > Datum: Wed, 30 Jan 2002 05:03:21 -0500 > An: use-revolution at lists.runrev.com > Betreff: use-revolution digest, Vol 1 #153 - 15 msgs > > Message: 6 > Date: Tue, 29 Jan 2002 21:35:18 -0800 > Subject: Re: Copying parts of pictures to the front > From: "Ken Norris (dialup)" > To: > Reply-To: use-revolution at lists.runrev.com > > on 1/29/02 7:54 PM, J. Landman Gay at jacque at hyperactivesw.com wrote: > >> It is a snap in RR, it's all built in. You won't need any of the >> work-arounds necessary in HC. Here's what you do: >> >> 1. Import all the pictures. You can use your existing PICT files if you >> want, but they will not work cross platform and PICT is an inefficient >> format. For best results, convert them first to jpg or gif and then >> import them into the stack. > ---------- > Yes, this I know. > ---------- >> 2. Once imported, make a note of each image's ID number, then hide the >> image. You can store them anywhere in the stack, it doesn't matter >> where, they will never be displayed directly. Some people make a >> separate card to store icon images, other people just hide the image on >> any convenient card. >> >> 3. Create a bunch of transparent buttons. > ---------- > I know this, too. No problem so far. > ---------- >> Set the icon of each button to >> the correct "up" image ID and set its hilite icon to the "down" image ID. > ---------- > This is what I'm trying to avoid. There are about 80 buttons, all similar > but different. The main picts..er..uh..images, are full screen. Everything > is there, including the images of the buttons (which have complex colors, > shading, text), in one FULL SCREEN image. The transparent buttons are all > aligned properly with the image. In my HC stack, Uli's xGWorld holds the > FULL SCREEN PICT (image) of the 'down' buttons, located congruently (thus, > the buttons align with it as well), but not visible. The handler for > animating the buttons uses the rect of the button to copy that portion of > the gWorld image and temporarily (until the mouse is up) place it on the > screen right over the corresponding portion of the 'up' state image, similar > to RR's icon hiliting. Very neat, doesn't require drawing separate button > icons. The buttons are in rows, so all the text parts had to align, too. I > wouldn't have wanted to do that for each separate button. > > If I have to do each button separately as you sugggest, it will mean cutting > and pasting 156 separate images for the emulator version and at least 79 > images each for the other two sets, for a grand total of 314 images! If > there is significant memory savings in doing so, I might consider it, but I > have to weigh that against the labor involved. > > So, what I'm looking for is either: > > 1) A script that instantly shows and hides the button rect PORTION of the > 'down' full screen image into the SAME PORTION (rect) of the 'up' full > screen image. Best labor-saving idea if it will work. > > ....or > > 2) Write a script that automates the selection, copying, and pasting of the > button rect's images (all 314 of them) into icons. > > .....or...can I do this?: > > 3) Use the 'up' full screen image in the background, and just hilite with > the 'down' image icons. That will lower the copy and paste process to just > 80 images. That's still a bunch, though. > ---------- >> That's it. If the button has autohiliting set, it will work exactly the >> way you want automatically. If you don't want to use autohiliting, then >> just script "set the hilite of btn x to true" to show the "down" icon. > ---------- > Go RR!!! This'll be great for the 'pilot light' buttons, too. I just don't > want to do all that copying and pasting again (waaah, snivel, snivel). > > Thanks, Jacque, and good night all, From Roger.E.Eller at sealedair.com Fri Feb 1 08:51:01 2002 From: Roger.E.Eller at sealedair.com (Roger.E.Eller at sealedair.com) Date: Fri Feb 1 08:51:01 2002 Subject: Pocket PC Message-ID: > Yep. Even better if it were like an output module, with the ability to > select PocketPC as the build type. > > -- > Troy > RPSystems > www.rpsystems.net If this does actually happen, I agree that designing the apps on a desktop PC or Mac would be easier than on the PocketPC itself. If you've ever seen the PalmOS emulator that developers use, I think that type of environment would be ideal. Not necessarily a full-blown PocketPC emulator, but at least locking the window resolution and memory requirements to the capabilities of the device. You could event overlay an image (skin) so the app appears to be running on the actual device. That's my 2 cents worth. Does anyone else want to share their "vision" of what would be the ideal PocketPC Revolution development environment? ~Roger Eller From tim11 at bellatlantic.net Fri Feb 1 09:06:01 2002 From: tim11 at bellatlantic.net (Tim) Date: Fri Feb 1 09:06:01 2002 Subject: Building a file In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On 2/1/02 6:05 AM, "yves COPPE" wrote: >> >> Go to Distribution Builder, click on the Stacks tab, in there, on the bottom >> you'll see: Keep substacks in main file/Move substacks into individual >> files. Choose the latter, and it should be OK. >> -- >> Tim >> > > > The building stops at the message : > "Now setting Profile options on stack Specification?" > > I have no stack "Specification" in my files? > The result is nothing works? > > What ? > > Thanks. I just built a distribution as a test in the following manner and it worked fine: Test.rev has Test as the main stack and one substack called SubTest. In the Basic Options Tab, I checked Create folder for substack called "data". Distribution Type: Standalone. Platform: MacOS X In the stacks tab: I added Test.rev to the stack files, stacks in file: test and SubTest Move substacks into individual files Auto apply stackfiles information to mainStack Clicked Build Distribution and a folder was created called Standalone_MacOSX_testing which has the actual standalone called "testing", and a data folder which has another folder containing the substack SubTest. I don't know if the Profile manager has anything to do with your particular problem. Maybe someone else could chime in on this issue. Hope that helps, -- Tim From marcus at synchromedia.co.uk Fri Feb 1 09:22:00 2002 From: marcus at synchromedia.co.uk (Marcus Bointon) Date: Fri Feb 1 09:22:00 2002 Subject: Pocket PC In-Reply-To: Message-ID: FWIW, I think I'd find Java a more useful target than Pocket PC. Marcus -- Marcus Bointon Synchromedia Limited: Putting you in the picture marcus at synchromedia.co.uk | http://www.synchromedia.co.uk From sbouju at mac.com Fri Feb 1 11:30:01 2002 From: sbouju at mac.com (Sylvain Bouju) Date: Fri Feb 1 11:30:01 2002 Subject: Help needed with popup menu (when clicking on a field...) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: on 1/02/02 8:30, yves COPPE at yvescoppe at skynet.be wrote: > font size : select your object with the pointer tool, choose the font > size you want in the text menu I tried, but the menu remain in Charcoal (or may be it is Chicago? I am on a Mac...) It seems not possible to set the textfont *of the text* of my button "mypopupmenu", but just the textfont of the btn itself. > pre-select an item : look at the menuhistory property in the > transcript dictionary I tried too; but the popup menu always pop at the click loc. > get some result of the user choosen item : get the selectectedtext of > your object Fine, thank you. And the selected line of button "mypopupmenu" is OK too. > For a hierarchical menu : > type the parent item then return and tab and type your submenu : it > will appear as a submenu. I have not tried hierarchical menu at this time: it is secondary, and I shall see that later... -- Sylvain Bouju sbouju at bigfoot.com -- From tereza at califex.com Fri Feb 1 11:47:00 2002 From: tereza at califex.com (Tereza Snyder) Date: Fri Feb 1 11:47:00 2002 Subject: Help needed with popup menu... In-Reply-To: Message-ID: on 02.01.02 01:08 AM, Sylvain Bouju wrote: > I am planing to program a popup menu (hierarchical if > possible) which interacts with a locked field, or the > clicked line of this field, or even an item of this > clicked line. > > I have understood that I need at least an intermediary > button with this menu property in order to simulate > a popup field. > > How can I: > > - choose a font size for this popup menu? > - choose a loc for the poping (or pre-select an item)? > - get some result of the user choosen item (sub item) > of this menu? > I'm not sure what you mean by "interacts with a locked field", but another approach to popups is to use a stack as a popup. Make a substack and put a locked field on it with the desired characteristics (list behavior, etc). In the preopenstack handler of that new stack, fill the field with text, if necessary, and set the dimensions and locations of the stack and the field, Use the global property "dialogdata" to store this info before calling . Put scripts in the popup stack for obtaining the user choice and stick this info into the dialogdata, which you read after the call to . This approach may not suit you perfectly, especially as the hilite behavior is not exactly like that of a menu. On the other hand, it might be exactly what you need. tereza . . .. ... ..... ACT AGAINST ENTROPY! ..... ... .. . . From mike.kinton at waymaker.co.uk Fri Feb 1 12:09:01 2002 From: mike.kinton at waymaker.co.uk (Mike Kinton) Date: Fri Feb 1 12:09:01 2002 Subject: printing scripts Message-ID: <007301c1ab42$6a5fa990$060616ac@KINTON1> how do I set the font size for printing? From jeanne at runrev.com Fri Feb 1 14:18:01 2002 From: jeanne at runrev.com (Jeanne A. E. DeVoto) Date: Fri Feb 1 14:18:01 2002 Subject: Persistent data? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: At 8:48 AM -0800 1/31/2002, Gary Robinson wrote: >> If your database needs are simple enough, you can use a stack as a >> flat-file database (where each card is a record), using the find, sort, and >> mark commands to handle selection, searching, and sorting tasks. > >I have a recollection that that was hard to do with early Hypercard, because >such a stack would have its top record visible to the user. You seem to be >implying that that is not the case in Revolution, that you can have a stack >that is just used as a database and is not part of the UI? Yes. You can have multiple stacks open, hide some of them, or whatever. >Does the find facility involve any kind of an index, or does it actually >have to check every card in the stack to see if it meets criteria? I think it checks a hash on each card. No index, no, but it is reasonably fast. (Under a second on a Tibook 400 to locate a word that turns up only at the end of a 3-megabyte stack, almost all the data in which is text.) >> You can >> also store data in external files and pull their information in as needed, >> and store media such as images in external files that can be referenced >> from within a stack. > >But is there an easy way to store such data in a file that allows keyed >access, such as Python's shelf library allows? Maybe you could explain a bit about what Python's keyed access lets you do? I'm not completely sure how to answer that question. -- Jeanne A. E. DeVoto ~ jeanne at runrev.com http://www.runrev.com/ Runtime Revolution Limited - Power to the Developer! From jeanne at runrev.com Fri Feb 1 14:18:57 2002 From: jeanne at runrev.com (Jeanne A. E. DeVoto) Date: Fri Feb 1 14:18:57 2002 Subject: Print In-Reply-To: Message-ID: At 11:33 PM -0800 1/31/2002, yves COPPE wrote: >2) I've a fld in column (tabstops). When I print the field, the >columns are not retained on the printed page. I use the printext >command because I have to add other text to that fld. The best thing to do in that case is probably to clone the field, make your changes in the clone, use revPrintField to print it, and then delete the clone once you're done with it. When you print a string with the revPrintText command, the string doesn't have a tabStops property - this is why the columns are being lost. By using a field and the revPrintField command you can retain the tab stops. -- Jeanne A. E. DeVoto ~ jeanne at runrev.com http://www.runrev.com/ Runtime Revolution Limited - Power to the Developer! From yvescoppe at skynet.be Fri Feb 1 15:04:00 2002 From: yvescoppe at skynet.be (yves COPPE) Date: Fri Feb 1 15:04:00 2002 Subject: Print In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: >At 11:33 PM -0800 1/31/2002, yves COPPE wrote: >>2) I've a fld in column (tabstops). When I print the field, the >>columns are not retained on the printed page. I use the printext >>command because I have to add other text to that fld. > >The best thing to do in that case is probably to clone the field, make your >changes in the clone, use revPrintField to print it, and then delete the >clone once you're done with it. When you print a string with the >revPrintText command, the string doesn't have a tabStops property - this is >why the columns are being lost. By using a field and the revPrintField >command you can retain the tab stops. > >-- >Jeanne A. E. DeVoto ~ jeanne at runrev.com Is it possible to have a preview of what you plan to print (to see the format of your print project) and then cancel the print to save some paper or some ink ? Thanks. -- Greetings. Yves COPPE Email : yvescoppe at skynet.be From ScotMc3 at aol.com Fri Feb 1 15:58:01 2002 From: ScotMc3 at aol.com (ScotMc3 at aol.com) Date: Fri Feb 1 15:58:01 2002 Subject: Animation Manager in version 1.1.1B1 Message-ID: <18a.2c114cf.298c5ad3@aol.com> Hello, I have been going through Hello World tutorials this week on a Windows 98 SE system. While performing the Animation Manager tutorial, I encountered several problems. 1) After creating an animation, pressing the reset button (created earlier in the tutorial) that triggered the card's PreOpenCard handler to relocate the field to an arbitary off card location would disable the animation. 2) I noticed that physically relocating the field "My New Field" with the Animation Manager closed would result in changes to the parameters of the created animation, as if the animation was still open in the Animation Manager. 3) I also encountered some difficulties that led to my having multiple animation on the card and the Animation Manager did not seem too happy with that. Sometimes I could not activate key frames, for example. Deleting all of the animations that I could find and starting over seemed to help. While it is not necessary for my purposes, I would be happy to forward the stack to RunRev for review if you think that is necessary, but I am not certain where I should send it. Sincerely, Scot McConnachie, scotmc3 at aol.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From pixelbird at interisland.net Fri Feb 1 16:01:01 2002 From: pixelbird at interisland.net (Ken Norris (dialup)) Date: Fri Feb 1 16:01:01 2002 Subject: Pocket PC In-Reply-To: Message-ID: on 2/1/02 5:49 AM, Roger.E.Eller at sealedair.com at Roger.E.Eller at sealedair.com wrote: > >> Yep. Even better if it were like an output module, with the ability to >> select PocketPC as the build type. >> >> -- >> Troy >> RPSystems >> www.rpsystems.net > > If this does actually happen, I agree that designing the apps on a desktop > PC or Mac would be easier than on the PocketPC itself. If you've ever seen > the PalmOS emulator that developers use, I think that type of environment > would be ideal. Not necessarily a full-blown PocketPC emulator, but at > least locking the window resolution and memory requirements to the > capabilities of the device. You could event overlay an image (skin) so the > app appears to be running on the actual device. That's my 2 cents worth. > Does anyone else want to share their "vision" of what would be the ideal > PocketPC Revolution development environment? ----------- I'd think both would be necessary. The development mod that frames the operations that will work in the PocketPC, and a distribution builder that does a similar thing. My .02 worth. Best regards, Ken N. From gary.dennis at mantissa.com Fri Feb 1 17:16:01 2002 From: gary.dennis at mantissa.com (Gary Dennis) Date: Fri Feb 1 17:16:01 2002 Subject: Is there a way to dynamically construct a script statement and then execute that statement? Message-ID: <001c01c1ab4d$33542ab0$2a45fea9@mantissasp4600> I want to construct a script statement dynamically (something like the following) and then "EXECUTE" that statement. If you are familiar with REXX, this language has an INTERPRET command that permits this sort of thing. Is there a way to do this in REV? Thanks on mouseup put "aVariablename April" into somestring get item 1 of somestring put it into zVarName get item 2 of somestring put it into widget put "put" && quote & widget & quote && "into" && zVarName into execvar -- the constructed statement at this point should be: -- PUT "April" into aVariableName ******* This is where I fall off the table end mouseup From jeanne at runrev.com Fri Feb 1 17:43:52 2002 From: jeanne at runrev.com (Jeanne A. E. DeVoto) Date: Fri Feb 1 17:43:52 2002 Subject: Help needed with popup menu (when clicking on a field...) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: At 8:28 AM -0800 2/1/2002, Sylvain Bouju wrote: >on 1/02/02 8:30, yves COPPE at yvescoppe at skynet.be wrote: >> font size : select your object with the pointer tool, choose the font >> size you want in the text menu > >I tried, but the menu remain in Charcoal (or may be it is Chicago? >I am on a Mac...) It seems not possible to set the textfont *of the text* >of my button "mypopupmenu", but just the textfont of the btn itself. If you are using "Appearance Manager" as the lookAndFeel on the Mac, the system is in charge of drawing contextual menus... so it draws them in the system font. If you set the lookAndFeel to "Macintosh", or choose View->Look and Feel->Mac OS Emulated, the menu will take on the font of the button. -- Jeanne A. E. DeVoto ~ jeanne at runrev.com http://www.runrev.com/ Runtime Revolution Limited - Power to the Developer! From jeanne at runrev.com Fri Feb 1 17:44:04 2002 From: jeanne at runrev.com (Jeanne A. E. DeVoto) Date: Fri Feb 1 17:44:04 2002 Subject: Print In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: At 12:00 PM -0800 2/1/2002, yves COPPE wrote: >Is it possible to have a preview of what you plan to print (to see >the format of your print project) and then cancel the print to save >some paper or some ink ? Not within Rev itself. But there's a shareware print driver called "Print2PICT" that will do it if you are on a Mac - you just choose it in the Chooser. I don't have the website for it, but googling should find it and it might be helpful. -- Jeanne A. E. DeVoto ~ jeanne at runrev.com http://www.runrev.com/ Runtime Revolution Limited - Power to the Developer! From jeanne at runrev.com Fri Feb 1 17:44:07 2002 From: jeanne at runrev.com (Jeanne A. E. DeVoto) Date: Fri Feb 1 17:44:07 2002 Subject: Is there a way to dynamically construct a script statement and then execute that statement? In-Reply-To: <001c01c1ab4d$33542ab0$2a45fea9@mantissasp4600> Message-ID: At 10:21 AM -0800 2/1/2002, Gary Dennis wrote: >I want to construct a script statement dynamically (something like the >following) and then "EXECUTE" that statement. If you are familiar with >REXX, this language has an INTERPRET command that permits this sort of >thing. Is there a way to do this in REV? Yes: the "do" command. > put "put" && quote & widget & quote && "into" && zVarName into execvar > -- the constructed statement at this point should be: > -- PUT "April" into aVariableName > > ******* This is where I fall off the table Here you'd have do execvar You can even build the string in the command line if you prefer: do "put" && quote & widget & quote && "into" && zVarName -- Jeanne A. E. DeVoto ~ jeanne at runrev.com http://www.runrev.com/ Runtime Revolution Limited - Power to the Developer! From devin_asay at byu.edu Fri Feb 1 17:55:01 2002 From: devin_asay at byu.edu (Devin Asay) Date: Fri Feb 1 17:55:01 2002 Subject: Is there a way to dynamically construct a script statement and then execute that statement? In-Reply-To: <001c01c1ab4d$33542ab0$2a45fea9@mantissasp4600> References: <001c01c1ab4d$33542ab0$2a45fea9@mantissasp4600> Message-ID: At 12:21 PM -0600 2/1/02, Gary Dennis wrote: >I want to construct a script statement dynamically (something like the >following) and then "EXECUTE" that statement. If you are familiar with >REXX, this language has an INTERPRET command that permits this sort of >thing. Is there a way to do this in REV? > >Thanks > >on mouseup > put "aVariablename April" into somestring > get item 1 of somestring > put it into zVarName > get item 2 of somestring > put it into widget > > put "put" && quote & widget & quote && "into" && zVarName into execvar > -- the constructed statement at this point should be: > -- PUT "April" into aVariableName > > ******* This is where I fall off the table > >end mouseup > do execvar -- Devin Asay Humanities Research Center Brigham Young University From drvaughan55 at mac.com Fri Feb 1 20:45:01 2002 From: drvaughan55 at mac.com (David Vaughan) Date: Fri Feb 1 20:45:01 2002 Subject: Print In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <4C032FD7-177E-11D6-BF23-000393598038@mac.com> Buying Adobe Acrobat (thus print to PDF) will give you even more capability to distribute reports to any platform as well as viewing final output without paper...at a greater cost. None of this is a quick preview of course. They are elaborations of printing to file and viewing it with TextEdit. cheers David On Saturday, February 2, 2002, at 07:57 , Jeanne A. E. DeVoto wrote: > At 12:00 PM -0800 2/1/2002, yves COPPE wrote: >> Is it possible to have a preview of what you plan to print (to see >> the format of your print project) and then cancel the print to save >> some paper or some ink ? > > Not within Rev itself. > > But there's a shareware print driver called "Print2PICT" that will do > it if > you are on a Mac - you just choose it in the Chooser. I don't have the > website for it, but googling should find it and it might be helpful. > > -- > Jeanne A. E. DeVoto ~ jeanne at runrev.com > http://www.runrev.com/ > Runtime Revolution Limited - Power to the Developer! > > > _______________________________________________ > use-revolution mailing list > use-revolution at lists.runrev.com > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution > From jcuccio at pacbell.net Fri Feb 1 20:57:01 2002 From: jcuccio at pacbell.net (John Cuccio) Date: Fri Feb 1 20:57:01 2002 Subject: popup in field Message-ID: To interacts with a locked field. I do this. I put a menu button on the card. Put the menu stuff in the button. Script the button. In your field, Lock text put this handler into the field script. on mouseup popup btn "b1" -- the name of the button you want to show. end mouseup Then the menu from the button will show under the line you clicked in the field. I think this is what you want to do. John Cuccio From sbouju at mac.com Sat Feb 2 02:23:01 2002 From: sbouju at mac.com (Sylvain Bouju) Date: Sat Feb 2 02:23:01 2002 Subject: popup in field In-Reply-To: Message-ID: on 2/02/02 2:54, John Cuccio at jcuccio at pacbell.net wrote: > I think this is what you want to do. Yes, but I use to use popups extensivly (too much, probably...) So I prefer to program their scripts in the concerned (clicked) object, even if I need to refer to one hiden button or stack to make this working in Revolution. At this time I don't know what I exactly I want to do, because I prefer to spend some time exploring the power of Revolution first, before trying to port (or not) my Hypercard stacks. But I already know that I shall be very frustated if I cannot script popups at least as well as I can do it so easily with Rinaldi's fullHPop XFCN. -- Sylvain Bouju sbouju at bigfoot.com -- From pixelbird at interisland.net Sat Feb 2 03:05:01 2002 From: pixelbird at interisland.net (Ken Norris (dialup)) Date: Sat Feb 2 03:05:01 2002 Subject: Persistent data? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Hi folks, I want to make some special control panels. There are a number of approaches, like putting it in front cards, using palette windows, etc. One of these might be using substacks. I don't entirely understand the concept of substacks, same problem with 'groups' as opposed to backgrounds. (I wish I had a visual flow layout...if I get it figured out to where I can do that, I'll post it. Pictures always speak louder than words for me). For example: Which should I do...keep the operating body in the main stack and make the control panels in substacks? This SEEMS like the right way, but I've seen some recent posts that lead me to believe the visa-versa would work better, though I'm not sure why. Can substacks open in a new window (different size)? Best regards, Ken N. From pixelbird at interisland.net Sat Feb 2 03:25:01 2002 From: pixelbird at interisland.net (Ken Norris (dialup)) Date: Sat Feb 2 03:25:01 2002 Subject: Is there a way to dynamically construct a script statement and then execute that statement? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: on 2/1/02 2:40 PM, Jeanne A. E. DeVoto at jeanne at runrev.com wrote: > At 10:21 AM -0800 2/1/2002, Gary Dennis wrote: >> I want to construct a script statement dynamically (something like the >> following) and then "EXECUTE" that statement. If you are familiar with >> REXX, this language has an INTERPRET command that permits this sort of >> thing. Is there a way to do this in REV? > > Yes: the "do" command. > >> put "put" && quote & widget & quote && "into" && zVarName into execvar >> -- the constructed statement at this point should be: >> -- PUT "April" into aVariableName >> >> ******* This is where I fall off the table > > Here you'd have > > do execvar > > You can even build the string in the command line if you prefer: > > do "put" && quote & widget & quote && "into" && zVarName ---------- Except that the call is for 'item' when it should be 'word' the way the script is constructed, eh (there are spaces instead of commas in the posted script)? Ken N. From yvescoppe at skynet.be Sat Feb 2 03:57:01 2002 From: yvescoppe at skynet.be (yves COPPE) Date: Sat Feb 2 03:57:01 2002 Subject: Build app Message-ID: Hello, I have a stack with substacks. I have a script : it starts from a substack (Modeless window), go to a modal DLOG stack. This modal may himself call another DLOG (up the first DLOG, so there are 3 windows open) At the end, a btn gives the opportunity to return from the first DLOG to the start substack (Modeless window) This btn contains such a script : close stack "MyFirstDLOG" go to stack "xxx" show stack "xxx" In the RR : no problem in the build app : when I click this btn, it quits and return to the finder I think perhaps it's because I return to a substack and not the mainstack ? how can I proceed ? Thanks. -- Greetings. Yves COPPE Email : yvescoppe at skynet.be From yvescoppe at skynet.be Sat Feb 2 03:59:00 2002 From: yvescoppe at skynet.be (yves COPPE) Date: Sat Feb 2 03:59:00 2002 Subject: Print In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: >At 12:00 PM -0800 2/1/2002, yves COPPE wrote: >>Is it possible to have a preview of what you plan to print (to see >>the format of your print project) and then cancel the print to save >>some paper or some ink ? > >Not within Rev itself. > >But there's a shareware print driver called "Print2PICT" that will do it if >you are on a Mac - you just choose it in the Chooser. I don't have the >website for it, but googling should find it and it might be helpful. > >-- >Jeanne A. E. DeVoto ~ jeanne at runrev.com Thanks, it works fine and answer my needs. I found it on the website "version-tracker" and it is free !! -- Greetings. Yves COPPE Email : yvescoppe at skynet.be From marcus at synchromedia.co.uk Sat Feb 2 04:36:01 2002 From: marcus at synchromedia.co.uk (Marcus Bointon) Date: Sat Feb 2 04:36:01 2002 Subject: Print In-Reply-To: Message-ID: on 1/2/2002 8:57 pm, Jeanne A. E. DeVoto at jeanne at runrev.com wrote: > At 12:00 PM -0800 2/1/2002, yves COPPE wrote: >> Is it possible to have a preview of what you plan to print (to see >> the format of your print project) and then cancel the print to save >> some paper or some ink ? > > Not within Rev itself. > > But there's a shareware print driver called "Print2PICT" that will do it if > you are on a Mac - you just choose it in the Chooser. I don't have the > website for it, but googling should find it and it might be helpful. I'm not familiar with printing in Revolution, but in other environments I'd expect this to be done by constructing your page to be printed offscreen (does rev have an "offscreen"?), and from there you can either send the page to be printed or render it as a low-res bitmap to display on screen. Is this kind of thing possible in Rev? Marcus -- Marcus Bointon Synchromedia Limited: Putting you in the picture marcus at synchromedia.co.uk | http://www.synchromedia.co.uk From marcus at synchromedia.co.uk Sat Feb 2 04:48:01 2002 From: marcus at synchromedia.co.uk (Marcus Bointon) Date: Sat Feb 2 04:48:01 2002 Subject: Renaming issue Message-ID: Just a little problem. I was trying to rename files based on the file's contents, so I open the file, read the info needed to set the name, then renamed the file. Except it wasn't working, and I didn't get any errors reported. Then I twigged - Rev won't rename an open file. This is allowed on MacOS, but not on other OSs I guess. I would have expected an error though? Marcus -- Marcus Bointon Synchromedia Limited: Putting you in the picture marcus at synchromedia.co.uk | http://www.synchromedia.co.uk From jeanne at runrev.com Sat Feb 2 05:58:01 2002 From: jeanne at runrev.com (Jeanne A. E. DeVoto) Date: Sat Feb 2 05:58:01 2002 Subject: Persistent data? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: At 12:14 AM -0800 2/2/2002, Ken Norris (dialup) wrote: >I want to make some special control panels. There are a number of >approaches, like putting it in front cards, using palette windows, etc. > >One of these might be using substacks. I don't entirely understand the >concept of substacks, same problem with 'groups' as opposed to backgrounds. >(I wish I had a visual flow layout...if I get it figured out to where I can >do that, I'll post it. Pictures always speak louder than words for me). I'm planning on adding pictures to the About sections - you're right, they'll help a lot in making concepts and relationships clear. (When we released 1.0 there wasn't a good way to include images in a field, but now there is, so....) Meanwhile: a substack is just a stack like any other. The differences are that substacks are in the same file as the main stack - so you can distribute a multi-stack application as one file rather than several - and that a main stack's script is in the message path of its substacks. (Put a different way, a substack's owner is its main stack.) When you double-click a stack file or a built application, the main stack opens automatically; you can then open the substacks with a script, or leave them closed. You can have one main stack per file, plus as many substacks as you want. You must have one main stack (you can't have just substacks). >For example: Which should I do...keep the operating body in the main stack >and make the control panels in substacks? This SEEMS like the right way, but >I've seen some recent posts that lead me to believe the visa-versa would >work better, though I'm not sure why. > >Can substacks open in a new window (different size)? Yes. As they're stacks, they have their own window and can be displayed as palettes, dialogs, etc. I'd have to know more about your app to give advice about architecture, but in general, if you're going to have multiple control-panel-like windows, put them in substacks. Since you can have only one main stack, this makes sense. In fact, many people make the main stack a splash screen (since it's the one that appears first when you double-click) and place all other windows in substacks. You can make it work any way you prefer, using any window as your main stack...but some designs are easier than others so it pays to do some thinking up front, as you're doing now, about where to put what. Remember also that you can move stacks from file to file, so if you decide one way now and change your mind later, you can still change the architecture. -- Jeanne A. E. DeVoto ~ jeanne at runrev.com http://www.runrev.com/ Runtime Revolution Limited - Power to the Developer! From jeanne at runrev.com Sat Feb 2 05:58:06 2002 From: jeanne at runrev.com (Jeanne A. E. DeVoto) Date: Sat Feb 2 05:58:06 2002 Subject: Build app In-Reply-To: Message-ID: At 12:55 AM -0800 2/2/2002, yves COPPE wrote: >This btn contains such a script : >close stack "MyFirstDLOG" >go to stack "xxx" >show stack "xxx" > >In the RR : no problem > >in the build app : when I click this btn, it quits and return to the finder > >I think perhaps it's because I return to a substack and not the mainstack ? >how can I proceed ? Not quite. I suspect it's because this is the only open window. In an app, you cannot close all the windows; doing that quits the application. (Little architectural idiosyncrasy.) The solution is to make sure there is a window open at all times - probably best to leave your modeless main stack open. You can hide this stack instead of closing it if you don't want it to appear on screen. -- Jeanne A. E. DeVoto ~ jeanne at runrev.com http://www.runrev.com/ Runtime Revolution Limited - Power to the Developer! From jeanne at runrev.com Sat Feb 2 05:58:09 2002 From: jeanne at runrev.com (Jeanne A. E. DeVoto) Date: Sat Feb 2 05:58:09 2002 Subject: Print In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: At 1:33 AM -0800 2/2/2002, Marcus Bointon wrote: >I'm not familiar with printing in Revolution, but in other environments I'd >expect this to be done by constructing your page to be printed offscreen >(does rev have an "offscreen"?), and from there you can either send the page >to be printed or render it as a low-res bitmap to display on screen. > >Is this kind of thing possible in Rev? Sure. In fact revPrintText and revPrintField could be set up to do this, and I'm going to feature request it to the developers (in their copious free time ;-). It's not exactly done by drawing into an offscreen buffer, generally - instead you set up a stack (which can be hidden), place all your data to be printed in it, then use the print card command. (This command is the basis of Revolution printing.) In essence the stack is used as the offscreen buffer. -- Jeanne A. E. DeVoto ~ jeanne at runrev.com http://www.runrev.com/ Runtime Revolution Limited - Power to the Developer! From JohnRule at aol.com Sat Feb 2 08:59:01 2002 From: JohnRule at aol.com (JohnRule at aol.com) Date: Sat Feb 2 08:59:01 2002 Subject: Pocket PC (WIndows CE, embedded XP) Message-ID: <55.21e7f34e.298d4a50@aol.com> Let's just get the Pocket PC (Windows CE, embedded XP) cpability out there. I would be willing to do everything manually by list of rules for now (i.e. can't use certain resources, restricted stack size, no file saving, no installer, etc.). They can make it nice and easy later...just make sure you have network (socket) capabilties. JR In a message dated 2/2/02 4:46:25 AM Atlantic Standard Time, use-revolution-request at lists.runrev.com writes: > I'd think both would be necessary. The development mod that frames the > operations that will work in the PocketPC, and a distribution builder that > does a similar thing. > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From troy at rpsystems.net Sat Feb 2 11:46:01 2002 From: troy at rpsystems.net (Troy Rollins) Date: Sat Feb 2 11:46:01 2002 Subject: Pocket PC (WIndows CE, embedded XP) In-Reply-To: <55.21e7f34e.298d4a50@aol.com> Message-ID: JohnRule at aol.com wrote: > Let's just get the Pocket PC (Windows CE, embedded XP) cpability out there. I > would be willing to do everything manually by list of rules for now (i.e. > can't use certain resources, restricted stack size, no file saving, no > installer, etc.). They can make it nice and easy later...just make sure you > have network (socket) capabilties. I agree. Perhaps the only thing that may make it a little easier would be to have the option to colorize illegal script items for a certain output platform. If you are constructing for PocketPC, incompatible script lines could become purple on issuing the colorize command, for instance. Other than that I don?t need to see any modifications to Rev?s UI. -- Troy RPSystems www.rpsystems.net From bvg at mac.com Sat Feb 2 11:58:01 2002 From: bvg at mac.com (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Bj=F6rnke_von_Gierke?=) Date: Sat Feb 2 11:58:01 2002 Subject: Pocket PC In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Freitag, Februar 1, 2002, at 03:19 Uhr, Marcus Bointon wrote: > FWIW, I think I'd find Java a more useful target than Pocket PC. Well, actually, what for? Java runs on unix, win, macos hmm.... like revolution! better make a native app from the beginning, thats why i like revolution much more then realBasic (beside other reasons) I don't care about PocketEnslaver ;) long live the Palm! Well actually i don't care at all (right now...) ----------------- Prepare for a heavy onslaught "really soon now"? From yvescoppe at skynet.be Sat Feb 2 12:18:00 2002 From: yvescoppe at skynet.be (yves COPPE) Date: Sat Feb 2 12:18:00 2002 Subject: Data folder on building app Message-ID: Hello, I've tried something : when building a standalone or a file I've changed the name of the attached folder : "data something" (note the space between the 2 words) I cannot build an app or a file so. The folder MUST be "data"? Is it normal ? or do I something wrong ? Thanks. -- Greetings. Yves COPPE Email : yvescoppe at skynet.be From yvescoppe at skynet.be Sat Feb 2 14:52:01 2002 From: yvescoppe at skynet.be (yves COPPE) Date: Sat Feb 2 14:52:01 2002 Subject: Build app In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: >At 12:55 AM -0800 2/2/2002, yves COPPE wrote: >>This btn contains such a script : >>close stack "MyFirstDLOG" >>go to stack "xxx" >>show stack "xxx" >> >>In the RR : no problem >> >>in the build app : when I click this btn, it quits and return to the finder >> >>I think perhaps it's because I return to a substack and not the mainstack ? >>how can I proceed ? > >Not quite. I suspect it's because this is the only open window. In an app, >you cannot close all the windows; doing that quits the application. (Little >architectural idiosyncrasy.) > >The solution is to make sure there is a window open at all times - probably >best to leave your modeless main stack open. You can hide this stack >instead of closing it if you don't want it to appear on screen. > >-- >Jeanne A. E. DeVoto ~ jeanne at runrev.com You're right, that was my problem. Thanks. -- Greetings. Yves COPPE Email : yvescoppe at skynet.be From yvescoppe at skynet.be Sat Feb 2 16:15:01 2002 From: yvescoppe at skynet.be (yves COPPE) Date: Sat Feb 2 16:15:01 2002 Subject: printing a tabstops fld Message-ID: Hello, I have a fld with tabstops (the colum are irregular, some large with text some narrow with numbers. When I use the command : revPrintField the name of field "xxx" I have as result, on the printed paper, columns but they are tabbed as if default width should exist, all the same width for each column. So the text which exceeds this "default" tabstop makes that the column isn't aligned although it is on screen What happens ? -- Greetings. Yves COPPE Email : yvescoppe at skynet.be From bvg at mac.com Sat Feb 2 18:12:01 2002 From: bvg at mac.com (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Bj=F6rnke_von_Gierke?=) Date: Sat Feb 2 18:12:01 2002 Subject: My Bold Script is slow Message-ID: Well, my bold Script is really slow, and I would appreciate any input for making it faster. Concrete are the loops at the bottom the problem, but I don't know an other way to change the bold, but leave other styles alone, as the forever-be-damned-and-burn-in-hell "textstyle" property is set to the uglier-as-my-dogs-ass "mixed" state. here it comes, please be aware, that any brain injures caused by this script are the brain owners problem: on mouseUp repeat with myChar = the second word of the selectedChunk to the fourth word of the selectedChunk put the textStyle of char myChar of field "text" into myRepeat replace myStyle & "," with "" in myRepeat replace myStyle with "" in myRepeat set the textstyle of char myChar of field "text" to myRepeat end repeat end mouseUp note: I tried the "for each char" loop, but it was not applicable the way i used it. (it provided always the character, but no number or other location possibility) for better reading copy to a button and tab on each line. for use set the traversalon to false hope you find something faster... From lrivers at realsoftware.com Sat Feb 2 21:40:01 2002 From: lrivers at realsoftware.com (Lorin Rivers) Date: Sat Feb 2 21:40:01 2002 Subject: Pocket PC In-Reply-To: <200202021710.MAA10720@www.runrev.com> References: <200202021710.MAA10720@www.runrev.com> Message-ID: At 12:10 PM -0500 2/2/02, use-revolution-request at lists.runrev.com wrote: >Date: Sat, 2 Feb 2002 17:55:35 +0100 >Subject: Re: Pocket PC >From: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Bj=F6rnke_von_Gierke?= >To: use-revolution at lists.runrev.com >Reply-To: use-revolution at lists.runrev.com > >On Freitag, Februar 1, 2002, at 03:19 Uhr, Marcus Bointon wrote: > >> FWIW, I think I'd find Java a more useful target than Pocket PC. > >Well, actually, what for? Java runs on unix, win, macos hmm.... like >revolution! better make a native app from the beginning, thats why i >like revolution much more then realBasic (beside other reasons) REALbasic DOES make native applications, compiled and everything. >I don't care about PocketEnslaver ;) >long live the Palm! >Well actually i don't care at all (right now...) > > >----------------- >Prepare for a heavy onslaught "really soon now"? -- Lorin Rivers 512.263.1233 x712 v Vice President of Marketing 512.263.1441 f REAL Software mailto:lrivers at realsoftware.com PMB 220 http://www.realsoftware.com 3300 Bee Cave Road, Suite 650 Austin, Texas 78746 REALbasic: the powerful, easy-to-use tool for creating your own software for Macintosh, Mac OS X, and Windows. From katir at hindu.org Sun Feb 3 00:08:05 2002 From: katir at hindu.org (Sivakatirswami) Date: Sun Feb 3 00:08:05 2002 Subject: RunRev / Visual Basic In-Reply-To: <200202021702.MAA10419@www.runrev.com> Message-ID: Did anyone ever do a Run Revolution / Visual Basic comparison, point by point, pros cons etc.? Hinduism Today Sivakatirswami Editor's Assistant/Production Manager From gcanyon at inspiredlogic.com Sun Feb 3 00:31:01 2002 From: gcanyon at inspiredlogic.com (Geoff Canyon) Date: Sun Feb 3 00:31:01 2002 Subject: RunRev / Visual Basic In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: >Did anyone ever do a Run Revolution / Visual Basic comparison, point by >point, pros cons etc.? > >Hinduism Today > Both comparisons -- Rev vs. Visual Basic and Rev vs. REALbasic -- are available at: regards, Geoff From drvaughan55 at mac.com Sun Feb 3 00:32:01 2002 From: drvaughan55 at mac.com (David Vaughan) Date: Sun Feb 3 00:32:01 2002 Subject: RunRev / Visual Basic In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <0FB000D2-1867-11D6-BF23-000393598038@mac.com> Well, the Rev people have... See Information on the RR site or go directly to http://www.runrev.com/revolution/info/compare/visualbasic/vb-vs- rev/index.html or at http://www.runrev.com/revolution/info/index.html you can download a PDF or Word document. On the same page there is also a comparison with REALBasic, and I notice the people from that firm keep an eye on this list and interject comments when there is a misunderstanding on the capability of their product. regards David On Sunday, February 3, 2002, at 04:04 , Sivakatirswami wrote: > Did anyone ever do a Run Revolution / Visual Basic comparison, point by > point, pros cons etc.? > > Hinduism Today > > Sivakatirswami > Editor's Assistant/Production Manager > > _______________________________________________ > use-revolution mailing list > use-revolution at lists.runrev.com > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution > From bvg at mac.com Sun Feb 3 04:00:01 2002 From: bvg at mac.com (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Bj=F6rnke_von_Gierke?=) Date: Sun Feb 3 04:00:01 2002 Subject: Pocket PC In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <295F23E5-1884-11D6-BD52-003065AD94A4@mac.com> On Sonntag, Februar 3, 2002, at 03:37 Uhr, Lorin Rivers wrote: > At 12:10 PM -0500 2/2/02, use-revolution-request at lists.runrev.com wrote: >> >> On Freitag, Februar 1, 2002, at 03:19 Uhr, Marcus Bointon wrote: >> >>> FWIW, I think I'd find Java a more useful target than Pocket PC. >> >> Well, actually, what for? Java runs on unix, win, macos hmm.... like >> revolution! better make a native app from the beginning, thats why i >> like revolution much more then realBasic (beside other reasons) > > REALbasic DOES make native applications, compiled and everything. for unixes? I doubt so... also I heard horrible stories about realBasic applications under Win. But you're right, that point wasn't clear in my original post. have a nice sunday BvG From webmaster at studioalice.se Sun Feb 3 05:06:01 2002 From: webmaster at studioalice.se (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Magnus_von_Br=F6msen?=) Date: Sun Feb 3 05:06:01 2002 Subject: Linked text Message-ID: <3452818E-188D-11D6-913E-003065CCBD1A@studioalice.se> Hello In the Rev. docs is it possible to click on separate word and have a window open up. I have figured out that the word is "Linked" from the textmenu (but can't find the script). 1. The window that pops up. Is that a card from a stack without decoration? Or.. 2. If so, how does the card knows which word I clicked on? Thanks. /magnus -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Studio Alice Magnus von Br?msen 0702-212 495 0322-633 833 www.studioalice.se From mark_mitchell at kmug.org Sun Feb 3 06:49:01 2002 From: mark_mitchell at kmug.org (Mark Mitchell) Date: Sun Feb 3 06:49:01 2002 Subject: wrapping lines of text In-Reply-To: <200201301003.FAA19989@www.runrev.com> References: <200201301003.FAA19989@www.runrev.com> Message-ID: Scott Rossi writes: Unfortunately, wrapping lines of text in MC/REV requires that there be spaces among characters. Is this why it doesn't work with 2 byte Japanese fonts? I notice if you "put" Japanese into a field (set for the appropriate 2byte font) it does not wrap. mark mitchell japan From mark_mitchell at kmug.org Sun Feb 3 08:56:01 2002 From: mark_mitchell at kmug.org (Mark Mitchell) Date: Sun Feb 3 08:56:01 2002 Subject: Text field wrapping In-Reply-To: <200201302117.QAA09977@www.runrev.com> References: <200201302117.QAA09977@www.runrev.com> Message-ID: >>brent neal writes: >I think those are pretty compelling reasons to fix this behavior. I >was pretty disappointed when I ran up against this limitation. I'm >fairly sure it wasn't a problem in HyperCard, since the text fields in HC used the Toolbox TE, but its been 8 years since I've done any HC development. Brent, if it is really a 'limitation' for you, you can get the behaviour you want by putting the following in the card script on keydown put the width of field myField into myWidth put the formattedwidth of field myField into newWidth if newWidth > myWidth then put the number of characters of myField into charNum put return before character charNum of field 1 select after field 1 end if pass keyDown end keydown if you have more than one field you will have to modify accordingly mark mitchell japan From iansummerfield at btconnect.com Sun Feb 3 09:14:01 2002 From: iansummerfield at btconnect.com (Ian Summerfield) Date: Sun Feb 3 09:14:01 2002 Subject: My Bold Script is slow In-Reply-To: Message-ID: I can see two major problems. The first is you change the textStyle of each and every character selected regardless of whether it needs it or not, but you only really need to do that if the style was in that character in the first place. This speeds it up a lot. The second is probably harder to measure, but each time round your loop the cpu will need to recalculate your loop "from" and "to" functions, so it's much better programming to put the calculations before the loop and have them calculate just the once. See my variables "StartLoop" and "EndLoop". Another minor thing is to use lockscreen to prevent the screen redrawing too often. I didn't like your two replaces, I can see why you need them but you might like to experiment with my alternate method of using a sort. I just replace "bold" in a string like "underline,italic,bold" to leave: "underline,italic,", I then sort by item and get ",italic,underline" and can delete the first comma. I don't know it's any faster, you'll have to experiment. By seeing the tick count anyway it'll be easy to tell which is quicker. I added in some timing stuff, so I can tell what speed it's running at. My tests saw your original script go from 77 ticks to 19 in my revised one, but it depends on how large your selectedchunk is and how my characters are bold. on mouseUp put the ticks into starttime put "bold" into myStyle put (the second word of the selectedChunk) into loopStart put (the fourth word of the selectedChunk) into loopEnd set lockscreen to true set cursor to watch repeat with myChar = loopStart to loopEnd put the textStyle of char myChar of card field "text" into myRepeat if myStyle is in myRepeat then replace myStyle with "" in myRepeat sort items of myRepeat -- there'll be an empty item delete char 1 of myRepeat -- it's a comma for the empty item set the textstyle of char myChar of card field "text" to myRepeat end if end repeat set lockscreen to false put the ticks-starttime end mouseUp On 2/2/02 11:09 pm, "Bj?rnke von Gierke" scribed: > Well, my bold Script is really slow, and I would appreciate any input > for making it faster. Concrete are the loops at the bottom the problem, > but I don't know an other way to change the bold, but leave other styles > alone, as the forever-be-damned-and-burn-in-hell "textstyle" property is > set to the uglier-as-my-dogs-ass "mixed" state. > > here it comes, please be aware, that any brain injures caused by this > script are the brain owners problem: > > on mouseUp > repeat with myChar = the second word of the selectedChunk to the > fourth word of the selectedChunk > put the textStyle of char myChar of field "text" into myRepeat > replace myStyle & "," with "" in myRepeat > replace myStyle with "" in myRepeat > set the textstyle of char myChar of field "text" to myRepeat > end repeat > end mouseUp > > note: > I tried the "for each char" loop, but it was not applicable the way i > used it. (it provided always the character, but no number or other > location possibility) > for better reading copy to a button and tab on each line. > for use set the traversalon to false > > hope you find something faster... > > _______________________________________________ > use-revolution mailing list > use-revolution at lists.runrev.com > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution ---------------------------------- Ian Summerfield Macintosh Consultant - Hastings UK ICQ: 4378866 ---------------------------------- This E-mail is from Ian Summerfield's home system. The contents and any attachments to it include information that is private and confidential and should only be read by those persons to whom they are addressed. Ian accepts no liability for any loss or damage suffered by any person arising from the use of this e-mail. Ian does not accept any responsibility for viruses and it is your responsibility to check the email and attachments (if any). If you have received this e-mail in error, please destroy and delete the message from your computer. From iansummerfield at btconnect.com Sun Feb 3 09:15:00 2002 From: iansummerfield at btconnect.com (Ian Summerfield) Date: Sun Feb 3 09:15:00 2002 Subject: How to find running processes (OS 9 and OS X) Message-ID: I'm struggling with AppleScript, basically I just want to make my own "keep it up" type program. Before I launch an application using AppleScript (which works), I want to check it isn't already running. I can get the name of every process in AppleScript, or even the creator type, but how do I pass that information back to revolution? In Hypercard Applescript could simply set a card field, in Revoluion it doesn't seem to work. Or is there a better way to get the running processes? Hypercard I could just check the contents on the "application" menu! Can I do similar in Revolution? From Roger.E.Eller at sealedair.com Sun Feb 3 09:19:01 2002 From: Roger.E.Eller at sealedair.com (Roger.E.Eller at sealedair.com) Date: Sun Feb 3 09:19:01 2002 Subject: Using a graphic instead of the standard window shape Message-ID: Hello, Does anyone know if it is possible to use a graphic image (gif, jpg, etc.) as the actual window of a stack? What I have in mind is similar to Windows Media Player's skins. In other words, I don't want the window to have sharp corners. Thanks in advance. ~Roger Eller From webart at kenjikojima.com Sun Feb 3 09:21:01 2002 From: webart at kenjikojima.com (Kenji Kojima) Date: Sun Feb 3 09:21:01 2002 Subject: wrapping lines of text In-Reply-To: Message-ID: on 02.2.3 6:44 AM, Mark Mitchell at mark_mitchell at kmug.org wrote: > Scott Rossi writes: > Unfortunately, wrapping lines of text in MC/REV requires that there be > spaces among characters. > > Is this why it doesn't work with 2 byte Japanese fonts? I notice if you "put" > Japanese into a field (set for the appropriate > 2byte font) it does not wrap. > > mark mitchell > japan Mark, Change Japanese font to any Roman fonts. You cannot see spaces. Right? ?@ This is a space in Japanese text. -- Kenji Kojima http://www.kenjikojima.com/ From iansummerfield at btconnect.com Sun Feb 3 11:23:01 2002 From: iansummerfield at btconnect.com (Ian Summerfield) Date: Sun Feb 3 11:23:01 2002 Subject: Does Applescript work? Message-ID: I'm still struggling with Revolutions ability to use (or not) Applescript. The following script doesn't work at all for me. It works fine from the script editor but not from Revolution. You'll see I set x to three different values, comment out the later one or two to try different tests. The tests are these: tell application "Finder" to set the clipboard to name of every process as text tell application "Finder" to set the clipboard to "test" set the clipboard to "test" My clipboard remains unchanged throughout. Is this true for everyone? Also my Finder doesn't seem to collect the name of every process running. on mouseUp put "tell application ""e&"Finder""e&" to set the clipboard to name of every process as text" into x put "tell application ""e&"Finder""e&" to set the clipboard to ""e&"test""e into x put "set the clipboard to ""e&"test""e into x put x put empty into card field "Procs" do x as AppleScript select text of card field "Procs" paste end mouseUp From yvescoppe at skynet.be Sun Feb 3 11:52:01 2002 From: yvescoppe at skynet.be (yves COPPE) Date: Sun Feb 3 11:52:01 2002 Subject: Does Applescript work? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: >I'm still struggling with Revolutions ability to use (or not) Applescript. >The following script doesn't work at all for me. It works fine from the >script editor but not from Revolution. You'll see I set x to three >different values, comment out the later one or two to try different tests. > >The tests are these: > >tell application "Finder" to set the clipboard to name of every process as >text > >tell application "Finder" to set the clipboard to "test" > >set the clipboard to "test" > > >My clipboard remains unchanged throughout. Is this true for everyone? >Also my Finder doesn't seem to collect the name of every process running. > > >on mouseUp > put "tell application ""e&"Finder""e&" to set the clipboard to >name of every process as text" into x > put "tell application ""e&"Finder""e&" to set the clipboard to >""e&"test""e into x > put "set the clipboard to ""e&"test""e into x > put x > put empty into card field "Procs" > do x as AppleScript > select text of card field "Procs" > paste >end mouseUp > >_ I ask you something, perhaps it is a little "stupid" but who knows? you write each time : into x shouldn't be better "after" x from the second line "into x" is for the first time then you must write "after" x I have not much experience, I'm not sure of what you mean, but I'd write it so Hope this help to resolve your problem Cheers -- Greetings. Yves COPPE Email : yvescoppe at skynet.be From subscriber at btopenworld.com Sun Feb 3 11:58:01 2002 From: subscriber at btopenworld.com (subscriber) Date: Sun Feb 3 11:58:01 2002 Subject: Using a graphic instead of the standard window shape References: Message-ID: <001001c1acd3$31315c80$0c01a8c0@server> There's something I remember from my SuperCard days called "RAD Windows" (XCMD) which did this, although haven't heard anything about this recently. Check out http://www.vortex.uk.com/_tutorials/supercard/sc-examples/scexamples.html For Widget examples which (apparantly) "Make SuperCard windows take on any shape, including cutouts and discontiguous, multi-part shapes. Demonstration project with full instructions." Although Mac and SC based I hope this helps. Gary Rathbone ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Sunday, February 03, 2002 2:16 PM Subject: Using a graphic instead of the standard window shape > > Hello, > > Does anyone know if it is possible to use a graphic image (gif, jpg, etc.) > as the actual window of a stack? What I have in mind is similar to Windows > Media Player's skins. In other words, I don't want the window to have sharp > corners. Thanks in advance. > > ~Roger Eller > > > _______________________________________________ > use-revolution mailing list > use-revolution at lists.runrev.com > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution From lrivers at realsoftware.com Sun Feb 3 13:50:01 2002 From: lrivers at realsoftware.com (Lorin Rivers) Date: Sun Feb 3 13:50:01 2002 Subject: use-revolution digest, Vol 1 #164 - 17 msgs In-Reply-To: <200202031624.LAA29649@www.runrev.com> References: <200202031624.LAA29649@www.runrev.com> Message-ID: At 11:24 AM -0500 2/3/02, use-revolution-request at lists.runrev.com wrote: >On Sonntag, Februar 3, 2002, at 03:37 Uhr, Lorin Rivers wrote: > >> At 12:10 PM -0500 2/2/02, use-revolution-request at lists.runrev.com wrote: >>> >>> On Freitag, Februar 1, 2002, at 03:19 Uhr, Marcus Bointon wrote: >>> >>>> FWIW, I think I'd find Java a more useful target than Pocket PC. >>> >>> Well, actually, what for? Java runs on unix, win, macos hmm.... like >>> revolution! better make a native app from the beginning, thats why i >>> like revolution much more then realBasic (beside other reasons) >> >> REALbasic DOES make native applications, compiled and everything. > >for unixes? I doubt so... Right, missed that part. >also I heard horrible stories about realBasic applications under Win. People hear all sorts of things that aren't accurate. You should judge for yourself. >But you're right, that point wasn't clear in my original post. > >have a nice sunday >BvG Same to you! -- Lorin Rivers 512.263.1233 x712 v Vice President of Marketing 512.263.1441 f REAL Software mailto:lrivers at realsoftware.com PMB 220 http://www.realsoftware.com 3300 Bee Cave Road, Suite 650 Austin, Texas 78746 REALbasic: the powerful, easy-to-use tool for creating your own software for Macintosh, Mac OS X, and Windows. From yvescoppe at skynet.be Sun Feb 3 14:25:01 2002 From: yvescoppe at skynet.be (yves COPPE) Date: Sun Feb 3 14:25:01 2002 Subject: Print fld Message-ID: Hello, I have a script to print a fld : revprintfield When I'm in RR, no problem, it works fine. When I build the app or the file, it doesn't print. I've checked the "printing libraries" check box in the resources tab of the distribution builder, but it doesn't work. Can you help me ? Thanks. -- Greetings. Yves COPPE Email : yvescoppe at skynet.be From kray at sonsothunder.com Sun Feb 3 14:30:01 2002 From: kray at sonsothunder.com (Ken Ray) Date: Sun Feb 3 14:30:01 2002 Subject: RunRev / Visual Basic References: Message-ID: <004801c1ace8$9b6e45d0$f7fabc42@mckinley.dom> Sivakatirswami, I just finished doing one for RunRev that is on their site: http://www.runrev.com/revolution/info/compare/index.html It includes a sample database application that uses RunRev's new database features. Enjoy! Ken Ray Sons of Thunder Software Email: kray at sonsothunder.com Web Site: http://www.sonsothunder.com/ ----- Original Message ----- From: "Sivakatirswami" To: Cc: Sent: Saturday, February 02, 2002 11:04 PM Subject: RunRev / Visual Basic > Did anyone ever do a Run Revolution / Visual Basic comparison, point by > point, pros cons etc.? > > Hinduism Today > > Sivakatirswami > Editor's Assistant/Production Manager > > _______________________________________________ > use-revolution mailing list > use-revolution at lists.runrev.com > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution > From scott at tactilemedia.com Sun Feb 3 15:08:01 2002 From: scott at tactilemedia.com (Scott Rossi) Date: Sun Feb 3 15:08:01 2002 Subject: wrapping lines of text In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Recently, Mark Mitchell wrote: > Scott Rossi writes: > Unfortunately, wrapping lines of text in MC/REV requires that there be > spaces among characters. > > Is this why it doesn't work with 2 byte Japanese fonts? I notice if you "put" > Japanese into a field (set for the appropriate > 2byte font) it does not wrap. Yes. In my experience, double byte fonts (or any lines of text that do not contain spaces) need to be wrapped manually. Regards, Scott Rossi Creative Director Tactile Media, Multimedia & Design Email: scott at tactilemedia.com Web: www.tactilemedia.com From yvescoppe at skynet.be Sun Feb 3 15:52:01 2002 From: yvescoppe at skynet.be (yves COPPE) Date: Sun Feb 3 15:52:01 2002 Subject: Printing a tabstop fld Message-ID: Hello, I'm still stumbling with the same problem and haven't see any answer on the user list. So, I insist and post the same question again : I have a fld with tabstops (the columns are irregular, some large with text, some narrow with numbers). When I use the command : revPrintField the name of field "xxx" I have as result, on the printed paper, columns but they are tabbed as if default width should exist, all the same width for each column. So the text which exceeds this "default" tabstop makes that the column isn't aligned although it is on screen What happens ? HELP please ! -- Greetings. Yves COPPE Email : yvescoppe at skynet.be -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From iansummerfield at btconnect.com Sun Feb 3 16:19:01 2002 From: iansummerfield at btconnect.com (Ian Summerfield) Date: Sun Feb 3 16:19:01 2002 Subject: Does Applescript work? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On 3/2/02 4:49 pm, "yves COPPE" scribed: >> >> on mouseUp >> put "tell application ""e&"Finder""e&" to set the clipboard to >> name of every process as text" into x >> put "tell application ""e&"Finder""e&" to set the clipboard to >> ""e&"test""e into x >> put "set the clipboard to ""e&"test""e into x >> put x >> put empty into card field "Procs" >> do x as AppleScript >> select text of card field "Procs" >> paste >> end mouseUp >> >> _ > > > I ask you something, perhaps it is a little "stupid" but who knows? > > you write each time : into x > shouldn't be better "after" x > from the second line > "into x" is for the first time then you must write "after" x > > I have not much experience, I'm not sure of what you mean, but I'd write it so > > Hope this help to resolve your problem It's intentional, you can comment out two of the three to try different tests. AppleScript just won't behave on my machine, it's very strange. Both under OS 9 and OS X it doesn't give results, it's also as though RR gives up on it. I've since found switch out of RR and back in can make it work...very strange. Anyway, I've found another way that avoids the use of AppleScript. I'm an old Hypercard programmer, so I do tend to do things the long way! -i- From pixelbird at interisland.net Sun Feb 3 17:10:01 2002 From: pixelbird at interisland.net (Ken Norris (dialup)) Date: Sun Feb 3 17:10:01 2002 Subject: Using a graphic instead of the standard window shape In-Reply-To: Message-ID: on 2/3/02 6:16 AM, Roger.E.Eller at sealedair.com at Roger.E.Eller at sealedair.com wrote: > > Hello, > > Does anyone know if it is possible to use a graphic image (gif, jpg, etc.) > as the actual window of a stack? What I have in mind is similar to Windows > Media Player's skins. In other words, I don't want the window to have sharp > corners. Thanks in advance. ---------- Try making a 'borderless' window and just use your own graphic background image within it. I think the actual window has to have corners, though, and you probably can't make them transparent, so you'll need to match the bg it appears in. In other words, you 'fake' it. It APPEARS to be a 'skin' object because of how it's painted and manipulated. I'm working with this sort of thing myself. I'll post my results here or send off list, if you prefer, when I get to an appropriate point in my experiments with RR. One of the things I do on a regular basis, both in HC, and now in RR, is make a general graphic to fit the size and position I need using the local paint tools. Then, import it to a sophisticated paint program, like Photoshop, detail it to perfection, then put it back in the dev program, using its tools to locate and position it exactly. It's all about ILLUSION...SFX. Using layers and transparent objects, taking screen shots, manipulating images, windows, buttons and field styles, until I achieve the desired effect. Jeanne has written some books about doing these things in HyperCard. The principals are much the same, I suspect, but easier to implement in RR. HTH, Ken N. From kevin at runrev.com Sun Feb 3 19:35:00 2002 From: kevin at runrev.com (Kevin Miller) Date: Sun Feb 3 19:35:00 2002 Subject: Decompression question In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On 31/1/02 1:43 pm, Tim wrote: > Well, I've tried it, but no go. If I use the above script I get a "value" > error in the script editor. > > If I try: > > put decompress(url ("binfile:" & tUrl)) into tStackData > > I get the familiar message decompress: string is not compressed data. > > So, either way it doesn't work. Very confusing. This definitely does work. The data you are trying to decompress must not be compressed data. Is it possible that your script is either unable to download the file, or the file was originally not saved using the "binfile" syntax but converted to text? Kevin Kevin Miller Runtime Revolution Limited - Power to the Developer! Tel: +44 (0) 870 747 1165. Fax: +44 (0)1639 830 707. From kevin at runrev.com Sun Feb 3 19:35:51 2002 From: kevin at runrev.com (Kevin Miller) Date: Sun Feb 3 19:35:51 2002 Subject: Screen resolution switching? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On 31/1/02 4:48 pm, Marcus Bointon wrote: > I'm a long suffering Director developer recently introduced to Revolution... > > I'm currently running into all kinds of screen res switching problems in > Director, and I'm wondering if I can roll a little app in revolution to > switch it for me - Does Revolution have any screen resolution properties > that are set as well as get? Unfortunately not - Revolution reads in this information but doesn't currently allow you to set it. You might be able to do this with an AppleScript instead. Kevin Kevin Miller Runtime Revolution Limited - Power to the Developer! Tel: +44 (0) 870 747 1165. Fax: +44 (0)1639 830 707. From kevin at runrev.com Sun Feb 3 19:35:54 2002 From: kevin at runrev.com (Kevin Miller) Date: Sun Feb 3 19:35:54 2002 Subject: Downloading a MAC file In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On 31/1/02 10:40 pm, Marcus Bointon wrote: >> In my application, I want to include a "Check for Updates Online..." option >> (much like that in Revolution). If I release a new version of my >> application, my users can get it easily. >> >> Here's the problem. If I post a file with a resource fork, like an >> application created by the "Distribution Builder", the resource fork is not >> going to be present anymore and the download will not function. So... >> >> Do I do some kind of compression first? If so, what would I use so that >> Revolution will be able to uncompress it? > > If it's to be downloaded, then compression is a good idea anyway. > Safest/easiest way is to do a custom version check within your Rev app that > opens a direct http connection to your server where it can find if a new > version is available (e.g. Download a text file that contains a string of > the latest version number), then hand off downloading to their web browser > (openURL/GetURL or whatever). For a Mac you should stuff and > binhex/macbinary the file. All current web browsers will decode binhex and > macbinary, so you could even make it a self extractor. Actually, you can handle the last part in Revolution itself. Revolution has built in .gz compression, so simply compress the data fork into one file on the server and the resource fork into another (using the resfile and binfile URL types) and then reconstruct the two on download in the other direction. Kind regards, Kevin Kevin Miller Runtime Revolution Limited - Power to the Developer! Tel: +44 (0) 870 747 1165. Fax: +44 (0)1639 830 707. From kevin at runrev.com Sun Feb 3 19:35:56 2002 From: kevin at runrev.com (Kevin Miller) Date: Sun Feb 3 19:35:56 2002 Subject: Animation Manager in version 1.1.1B1 In-Reply-To: <18a.2c114cf.298c5ad3@aol.com> Message-ID: On 1/2/02 8:55 pm, ScotMc3 at aol.com wrote: > I have been going through Hello World tutorials this week on a Windows 98 SE > system. > > While performing the Animation Manager tutorial, I encountered several > problems. > > 1) After creating an animation, pressing the reset button (created earlier in > the tutorial) that triggered the card's PreOpenCard handler to relocate the > field to an arbitary off card location would disable the animation. > > 2) I noticed that physically relocating the field "My New Field" with the > Animation Manager closed would result in changes to the parameters of the > created animation, as if the animation was still open in the Animation > Manager. > > 3) I also encountered some difficulties that led to my having multiple > animation on the card and the Animation Manager did not seem too happy with > that. Sometimes I could not activate key frames, for example. Deleting all of > the animations that I could find and starting over seemed to help. You need to make one more change the handler the reset button calls: instead of moving the field off screen (which will cause that position to be saved) you need to run revGoToFramePaused myAnim,1 to move the animation back to the start without saving a change to the frame. This will be included in the next revision of the tutorials. > While it is not necessary for my purposes, I would be happy to forward the > stack to RunRev for review if you think that is necessary, but I am not > certain where I should send it. Something like this would be sent to support at runrev.com. Kind regards, Kevin Kevin Miller Runtime Revolution Limited - Power to the Developer! Tel: +44 (0) 870 747 1165. Fax: +44 (0)1639 830 707. From kevin at runrev.com Sun Feb 3 19:36:00 2002 From: kevin at runrev.com (Kevin Miller) Date: Sun Feb 3 19:36:00 2002 Subject: 1.1.1b1 release notes? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On 31/1/02 6:43 pm, Marcus Bointon wrote: > Where can I find release notes for 1.1.1b1? The docs included with it don't > list them (only 1.1) and they're not on the download page. We had a discussion recently about this on the improve-revolution list, and the upshot is that we're going to improve on making this information available in the future. Kevin Kevin Miller Runtime Revolution Limited - Power to the Developer! Tel: +44 (0) 870 747 1165. Fax: +44 (0)1639 830 707. From kevin at runrev.com Sun Feb 3 19:36:04 2002 From: kevin at runrev.com (Kevin Miller) Date: Sun Feb 3 19:36:04 2002 Subject: Password Property for Substacks only In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On 31/1/02 6:53 pm, Sivakatirswami wrote: > Regarding the password property: if you set this for a substack, is the > entire stack file encrypted? Or, is only the data of the substack encrypted. > I would like to save FTP log in data to a little "bookmarks" substack, but > not allow users to have access to this data, but also, not encrypt the main > stack if that is possible. (slows it down) It is stack specific and does not affect other stacks in the file. Kevin Kevin Miller Runtime Revolution Limited - Power to the Developer! Tel: +44 (0) 870 747 1165. Fax: +44 (0)1639 830 707. From kevin at runrev.com Sun Feb 3 19:36:06 2002 From: kevin at runrev.com (Kevin Miller) Date: Sun Feb 3 19:36:06 2002 Subject: Renaming issue In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On 2/2/02 9:45 am, Marcus Bointon wrote: > Just a little problem. I was trying to rename files based on the file's > contents, so I open the file, read the info needed to set the name, then > renamed the file. Except it wasn't working, and I didn't get any errors > reported. Then I twigged - Rev won't rename an open file. This is allowed on > MacOS, but not on other OSs I guess. I would have expected an error though? Did you not get anything back in the result? Kevin Kevin Miller Runtime Revolution Limited - Power to the Developer! Tel: +44 (0) 870 747 1165. Fax: +44 (0)1639 830 707. From kevin at runrev.com Sun Feb 3 19:36:10 2002 From: kevin at runrev.com (Kevin Miller) Date: Sun Feb 3 19:36:10 2002 Subject: Linked text In-Reply-To: <3452818E-188D-11D6-913E-003065CCBD1A@studioalice.se> Message-ID: On 3/2/02 10:03 am, Magnus von Br?msen wrote: > In the Rev. docs is it possible to click on separate word and have a > window open up. I have figured out that the word is "Linked" from the > textmenu (but can't find the script). > > 1. The window that pops up. Is that a card from a stack without > decoration? Or.. > 2. If so, how does the card knows which word I clicked on? on linkClicked pWhich --do something depending on pWhich Kevin Kevin Miller Runtime Revolution Limited - Power to the Developer! Tel: +44 (0) 870 747 1165. Fax: +44 (0)1639 830 707. From kevin at runrev.com Sun Feb 3 19:36:15 2002 From: kevin at runrev.com (Kevin Miller) Date: Sun Feb 3 19:36:15 2002 Subject: Pocket PC In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On 3/2/02 6:37 pm, Lorin Rivers wrote: >>>> Well, actually, what for? Java runs on unix, win, macos hmm.... like >>>> revolution! better make a native app from the beginning, thats why i >>>> like revolution much more then realBasic (beside other reasons) >>> >>> REALbasic DOES make native applications, compiled and everything. >> >> for unixes? I doubt so... > > Right, missed that part. > >> also I heard horrible stories about realBasic applications under Win. > > People hear all sorts of things that aren't accurate. You should > judge for yourself. Lets say for the sake of the argument that the stories going around aren't true (and I have my doubts given the number of them I have heard). The fact is that REALBasic cannot edit or debug a Windows application on Windows. To develop a Windows application, you must build it on the Mac, go over to Windows, test it, then come back to the Mac to make changes. Even *if* the RB system works absolutely perfectly, there are going to be at the very least some platform specific tweaks that need to be made. So in the very best case, this still results in a big reduction in productivity (again, still assuming that Windows compilation does work smoothly in REALBasic - you can imagine it is worse if it doesn't). There is an article on our web site that looks at the differences between Rev and REALBasic - if you don't have time to read it all you can check out the summary towards the end. This shows amongst other things the number of hours needed to develop a simple sample app in Rev or RB. Kevin Kevin Miller Runtime Revolution Limited - Power to the Developer! Tel: +44 (0) 870 747 1165. Fax: +44 (0)1639 830 707. From sarahr at genesearch.com.au Sun Feb 3 21:29:00 2002 From: sarahr at genesearch.com.au (Sarah Reichelt) Date: Sun Feb 3 21:29:00 2002 Subject: Does Applescript work? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Having struggled with AppleScript for many years, I have a few pieces of advice. Firstly, always write & debug in an AppleScript editor before transferring the script to HyperCard or Rev. Secondly, do the bare minimum in AppleScript and do as much as you can in xTalk - it is faster to run and easier to program & debug. With your list of processes, I used the following technique: I copied this script into a field: tell application "Finder" return every process end tell Then I had a button with this script: on mouseUp do fld "AppleScript1" as AppleScript -- now get what the AppleScript returned put the result into processList -- now do your stuff end mouseUp I prefer to use a field rather than assembling the script in a Rev script because it is much easier to catch any errors and to edit later. You can hide the field once you have it working properly. If there is any chance of the AppleScript failing, use a "try" construct and return the error to your Rev script. Cheers, Sarah > I'm still struggling with Revolutions ability to use (or not) Applescript. > The following script doesn't work at all for me. It works fine from the > script editor but not from Revolution. You'll see I set x to three > different values, comment out the later one or two to try different tests. > > The tests are these: > > tell application "Finder" to set the clipboard to name of every process as > text > > tell application "Finder" to set the clipboard to "test" > > set the clipboard to "test" > > > My clipboard remains unchanged throughout. Is this true for everyone? > Also my Finder doesn't seem to collect the name of every process running. > > > on mouseUp > put "tell application ""e&"Finder""e&" to set the clipboard to > name of every process as text" into x > put "tell application ""e&"Finder""e&" to set the clipboard to > ""e&"test""e into x > put "set the clipboard to ""e&"test""e into x > put x > put empty into card field "Procs" > do x as AppleScript > select text of card field "Procs" > paste > end mouseUp > > _______________________________________________ > use-revolution mailing list > use-revolution at lists.runrev.com > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution > From tim11 at bellatlantic.net Mon Feb 4 00:18:00 2002 From: tim11 at bellatlantic.net (Tim) Date: Mon Feb 4 00:18:00 2002 Subject: Text encoding Message-ID: Hi, Does revolution support different text encoding? I ask because I'm having difficulties displaying certain text in flds in Rev on Windows. TIA, -- Tim From drvaughan55 at mac.com Mon Feb 4 02:36:01 2002 From: drvaughan55 at mac.com (David Vaughan) Date: Mon Feb 4 02:36:01 2002 Subject: Put data on the clipboard? Message-ID: <95F2FAF4-1941-11D6-BF23-000393598038@mac.com> After some testing I find I can use copy and paste to move selected text between a field and the clipboard, but I want to put data directly from a variable on to the clipboard without making the text visible and selected. How can I do this please? thanks David From jeanne at runrev.com Mon Feb 4 02:44:00 2002 From: jeanne at runrev.com (Jeanne A. E. DeVoto) Date: Mon Feb 4 02:44:00 2002 Subject: Does Applescript work? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: At 6:27 PM -0800 2/3/2002, Sarah Reichelt wrote: >Having struggled with AppleScript for many years, I have a few pieces of >advice. >[...] >I prefer to use a field rather than assembling the script in a Rev script >because it is much easier to catch any errors and to edit later. You can >hide the field once you have it working properly. Sounds like a good set of techniques. You might also try putting the AppleScript in a custom property and "do"-ing that, rather than a hidden field - it's a little neater, since you don't have the extra hidden object rattling around, and you can edit it easily in the properties palette without having to show the field, make sure it's not behind anything, etc. -- Jeanne A. E. DeVoto ~ jeanne at runrev.com http://www.runrev.com/ Runtime Revolution Limited - Power to the Developer! From jcuccio at pacbell.net Mon Feb 4 03:47:01 2002 From: jcuccio at pacbell.net (John Cuccio) Date: Mon Feb 4 03:47:01 2002 Subject: Re Print Field Message-ID: Is this for windows. I had the some problem. It worked fine on the Mac in Rev Developement and Standalone. But on Windows it did not. I had to put a revshowprintDialog command before the revprintfield. I do not know why. From gary.dennis at mantissa.com Mon Feb 4 03:55:01 2002 From: gary.dennis at mantissa.com (Gary Dennis) Date: Mon Feb 4 03:55:01 2002 Subject: Pocket PC References: Message-ID: <006301c1ad13$1825aa30$0100a8c0@mantissasp4600> I agree that development/build support in the current environments for deployment in the Pocket PC environment would be ideal. Any additional supported target platforms should be treated the same as the existing environments with dubtle differences being "Build Distribution" options. ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Friday, February 01, 2002 7:49 AM Subject: Re: Pocket PC > > > Yep. Even better if it were like an output module, with the ability to > > select PocketPC as the build type. > > > > -- > > Troy > > RPSystems > > www.rpsystems.net > > If this does actually happen, I agree that designing the apps on a desktop > PC or Mac would be easier than on the PocketPC itself. If you've ever seen > the PalmOS emulator that developers use, I think that type of environment > would be ideal. Not necessarily a full-blown PocketPC emulator, but at > least locking the window resolution and memory requirements to the > capabilities of the device. You could event overlay an image (skin) so the > app appears to be running on the actual device. That's my 2 cents worth. > Does anyone else want to share their "vision" of what would be the ideal > PocketPC Revolution development environment? > > ~Roger Eller > > > _______________________________________________ > use-revolution mailing list > use-revolution at lists.runrev.com > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution From yvescoppe at skynet.be Mon Feb 4 04:11:01 2002 From: yvescoppe at skynet.be (yves COPPE) Date: Mon Feb 4 04:11:01 2002 Subject: Re Print Field In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: >Is this for windows. I had the some problem. It worked fine on the Mac in >Rev Developement and Standalone. But on Windows it did not. > >I had to put a revshowprintDialog command before the revprintfield. I do not >know why. > I'm happy someone answer me ! I use the command revshowprintDialog I work on Mac But it doesn't work Cheers -- Greetings. Yves COPPE Email : yvescoppe at skynet.be From kevin at runrev.com Mon Feb 4 06:25:01 2002 From: kevin at runrev.com (Kevin Miller) Date: Mon Feb 4 06:25:01 2002 Subject: Printing a tabstop fld In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On 3/2/02 8:49 pm, yves COPPE wrote: > revPrintField the name of field "xxx" > > I have as result, on the printed paper, columns but they are tabbed > as if default width should exist, all the same width for each column. > So the text which exceeds this "default" tabstop makes that the > column isn't aligned although it is on screen > What happens ? We'll look into this for b2. Kevin Kevin Miller Runtime Revolution Limited - Power to the Developer! Tel: +44 (0) 870 747 1165. Fax: +44 (0)1639 830 707. From kevin at runrev.com Mon Feb 4 06:33:01 2002 From: kevin at runrev.com (Kevin Miller) Date: Mon Feb 4 06:33:01 2002 Subject: Text encoding In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On 4/2/02 5:16 am, Tim wrote: > Does revolution support different text encoding? I ask because I'm having > difficulties displaying certain text in flds in Rev on Windows. Is the text stored in fields or in properties? If the latter then use the macToISO() and ISOtoMac() functions to translate it. If the former, the translation is generally automatic. Kind regards, Kevin Kevin Miller Runtime Revolution Limited - Power to the Developer! Tel: +44 (0) 870 747 1165. Fax: +44 (0)1639 830 707. From kevin at runrev.com Mon Feb 4 06:33:04 2002 From: kevin at runrev.com (Kevin Miller) Date: Mon Feb 4 06:33:04 2002 Subject: Put data on the clipboard? In-Reply-To: <95F2FAF4-1941-11D6-BF23-000393598038@mac.com> Message-ID: On 4/2/02 7:34 am, David Vaughan wrote: > After some testing I find I can use copy and paste to move selected text > between a field and the clipboard, but I want to put data directly from > a variable on to the clipboard without making the text visible and > selected. How can I do this please? Place it into a field that is off screen or invisible, then copy that. Kevin Kevin Miller Runtime Revolution Limited - Power to the Developer! Tel: +44 (0) 870 747 1165. Fax: +44 (0)1639 830 707. From Doug_Ivers at lord.com Mon Feb 4 08:24:01 2002 From: Doug_Ivers at lord.com (Ivers, Doug E) Date: Mon Feb 4 08:24:01 2002 Subject: Caution re: off-screen Message-ID: <6150F6099DBED111852E0008C7241464049B360A@NTSRV-CRD04> Be aware that setting the loc of an object to something like -100,-100 may not hide it from the end user if they use multiple screens. On a Mac, the "main" screen with the menubar can be any of the monitors. So for example, if I have 2 monitors and I put the menubar on the right monitor, then the left monitor is in "negative territory." If you what to hide something, I think it best to set the visible to false. -- D From depstein at att.net Mon Feb 4 09:44:01 2002 From: depstein at att.net (depstein at att.net) Date: Mon Feb 4 09:44:01 2002 Subject: Mac menubar question Message-ID: <20020204144148.BUVG28721.mtiwmhc25.worldnet.att.net@webmail.worldnet.att.net> A group of buttons can be used as a Mac menubar, but there are some differences in behavior between how those menus work and how the buttons work if they are used directly, e.g., displayed in a palette. It appears that I cannot change the contents of a Mac menubar menu "on mousedown," while I can do that if the button itself is pressed from a palette. And the Mac menubar doesn't seem to set the "menuHistory," while the button itself does. I conclude that some subset of button functions works when the button is in the Mac menubar. Has someone documented exactly what that subset is? Many thanks. David Epstein From tim11 at bellatlantic.net Mon Feb 4 09:44:37 2002 From: tim11 at bellatlantic.net (Tim) Date: Mon Feb 4 09:44:37 2002 Subject: Text encoding In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On 2/4/02 6:27 AM, "Kevin Miller" wrote: > On 4/2/02 5:16 am, Tim wrote: > >> Does revolution support different text encoding? I ask because I'm having >> difficulties displaying certain text in flds in Rev on Windows. > > Is the text stored in fields or in properties? If the latter then use the > macToISO() and ISOtoMac() functions to translate it. If the former, the > translation is generally automatic. > > Kind regards, > > Kevin > I'm sorry, I should have been more clear. My problem lies in displaying non english text the same way on both platforms using Rev. So far the only thing that works is RTF and Unicode (neither of which I fear is supported by rev). Are there any solutions that you can recommend? TIA, -- Tim From evans at evans.pgh.pa.us Mon Feb 4 10:14:01 2002 From: evans at evans.pgh.pa.us (Arthur Evans Jr) Date: Mon Feb 4 10:14:01 2002 Subject: Put data on the clipboard? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On 4/2/02 7:34 am, David Vaughan wrote: > After some testing I find I can use copy and paste to move selected text > between a field and the clipboard, but I want to put data directly from > a variable on to the clipboard without making the text visible and > selected. How can I do this please? and Kevin Miller replied: >Place it into a field that is off screen or invisible, then copy that. Interesting. This is an incompatability with Hypercard, where I can write put into the clipboard Why is that feature missing from Rev? Art Evans From yvescoppe at skynet.be Mon Feb 4 10:33:01 2002 From: yvescoppe at skynet.be (yves COPPE) Date: Mon Feb 4 10:33:01 2002 Subject: Insert script command Message-ID: Hello, I've a main strack (I use as splash) then a few substack (some are DLOG (modal)) The main functions and commands (written in transcript langage) are placed in the stack's script. So, when I'am in RR, no problem all the scripts and calls to the handlers work fine. Whan I build a stand alone or a file, it doesn't work except if I write in the substack's scripts : insert the script of stack "mainStack" into back can you tell more about this command ? -- Greetings. Yves COPPE Email : yvescoppe at skynet.be From bvlahos at jpl.nasa.gov Mon Feb 4 10:47:01 2002 From: bvlahos at jpl.nasa.gov (Bill Vlahos) Date: Mon Feb 4 10:47:01 2002 Subject: How to find running processes (OS 9 and OS X) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <22C01233-1986-11D6-B9C2-003065E6E4BC@jpl.nasa.gov> Tuviah has written a free Externals Collection which includes this functionality. It is available on the Rev web site. Bill Vlahos On Sunday, February 3, 2002, at 06:12 AM, Ian Summerfield wrote: > I'm struggling with AppleScript, basically I just want to make my own > "keep > it up" type program. Before I launch an application using AppleScript > (which works), I want to check it isn't already running. I can get the > name of every process in AppleScript, or even the creator type, but how > do I > pass that information back to revolution? In Hypercard Applescript > could > simply set a card field, in Revoluion it doesn't seem to work. > > Or is there a better way to get the running processes? Hypercard I > could > just check the contents on the "application" menu! Can I do similar in > Revolution? > > > _______________________________________________ > use-revolution mailing list > use-revolution at lists.runrev.com > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution From Roger.E.Eller at sealedair.com Mon Feb 4 10:52:01 2002 From: Roger.E.Eller at sealedair.com (Roger.E.Eller at sealedair.com) Date: Mon Feb 4 10:52:01 2002 Subject: Using a graphic instead of the standard window shape Message-ID: >> Does anyone know if it is possible to use a graphic image (gif, jpg, etc.) >> as the actual window of a stack? What I have in mind is similar to Windows >> Media Player's skins. In other words, I don't want the window to have sharp >> corners. Thanks in advance. > ---------- > Try making a 'borderless' window and just use your own graphic background > image within it. I think the actual window has to have corners, though, and > you probably can't make them transparent, so you'll need to match the bg it > appears in. In other words, you 'fake' it. It APPEARS to be a 'skin' object > because of how it's painted and manipulated. I'm working with this sort of > thing myself. I'll post my results here or send off list, if you prefer, > when I get to an appropriate point in my experiments with RR. > > HTH, > Ken N. I wonder... is it possible to use a Rev command to do a snapshot of the desktop, but only the area that is behind the Rev application using its rect coordinates? Then... import that cropped image into the applications background, making the app appear to be invisible. Hmmm... Can a script do this magic? ~Roger Eller From webmaster at studioalice.se Mon Feb 4 11:51:00 2002 From: webmaster at studioalice.se (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Magnus_von_Br=F6msen?=) Date: Mon Feb 4 11:51:00 2002 Subject: Re Print Field In-Reply-To: Message-ID: I have this in a button (works on both mac and windows): on mouseUp revShowPrintDialog true,true -- shows both Page setup and then Print revPrintField the name of field "totalOrder" end mouseUp /magnus On Monday, February 4, 2002, at 10:10 AM, yves COPPE wrote: >> Is this for windows. I had the some problem. It worked fine on the Mac >> in >> Rev Developement and Standalone. But on Windows it did not. >> >> I had to put a revshowprintDialog command before the revprintfield. I >> do not >> know why. >> > > > I'm happy someone answer me ! > I use the command revshowprintDialog > I work on Mac > But it doesn't work > > > Cheers > -- Greetings. > > Yves COPPE > > Email : yvescoppe at skynet.be > _______________________________________________ > use-revolution mailing list > use-revolution at lists.runrev.com > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution > From scott at tactilemedia.com Mon Feb 4 15:07:01 2002 From: scott at tactilemedia.com (Scott Rossi) Date: Mon Feb 4 15:07:01 2002 Subject: Using a graphic instead of the standard window shape In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <77158C16-19AA-11D6-A892-0003934902A2@tactilemedia.com> On Monday, February 4, 2002, at 07:48 AM, Roger.E.Eller at sealedair.com wrote: > I wonder... is it possible to use a Rev command to do a snapshot of the > desktop, but only the area that is behind the Rev application using its > rect coordinates? Then... import that cropped image into the > applications > background, making the app appear to be invisible. Hmmm... Can a script > do > this magic? Sure, this has been before. However, two problems have come into play with Mac OSX in that: 1) all windows cast live shadows on the desktop, making hidden application windows pretty much impossible; and 2) the live dragging of windows requires that you must A) capture the entire desktop at startup to use a backdrop for your window in case it is dragged, and B) quickly update the position of captured image as you drag the window around the desktop. The result is somewhat believable but pretty jerky. What is really needed here is a flexible WDEF system that works with OSX. I've done some testing with Odo (a custom WDEF for Mac systems) which seems to indicate that it no longer works under OSX, which is not surprising given it was written almost 8 years ago. But this type of control is something Mac developers will need to create any custom window shapes. Anyone out there OSX savvy enough to write this? Regards, Scott Rossi Creative Director, Tactile Media scott at tactilemedia.com http://www.tactilemedia.com From pixelbird at interisland.net Mon Feb 4 15:18:01 2002 From: pixelbird at interisland.net (Ken Norris (dialup)) Date: Mon Feb 4 15:18:01 2002 Subject: Caution re: off-screen In-Reply-To: <6150F6099DBED111852E0008C7241464049B360A@NTSRV-CRD04> Message-ID: on 2/4/02 5:21 AM, Ivers, Doug E at Doug_Ivers at lord.com wrote: > Be aware that setting the loc of an object to something like -100,-100 may > not hide it from the end user if they use multiple screens. On a Mac, the > "main" screen with the menubar can be any of the monitors. So for example, > if I have 2 monitors and I put the menubar on the right monitor, then the > left monitor is in "negative territory." If you what to hide something, I > think it best to set the visible to false. ---------- You know, I haven't tried this with RR, but in HC you can do both... on openStack global gThis,gThat,gtheOther,gInitStuff send mouseUp to cd btn "Initialize" end openStack ....will fire the script of a transparent, hidden, offscreen button. Best regards, Ken N. From pixelbird at interisland.net Mon Feb 4 15:31:01 2002 From: pixelbird at interisland.net (Ken Norris (dialup)) Date: Mon Feb 4 15:31:01 2002 Subject: Does Applescript work? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: on 2/3/02 6:27 PM, Sarah Reichelt at sarahr at genesearch.com.au wrote: > Having struggled with AppleScript for many years, I have a few pieces of > advice. > > Firstly, always write & debug in an AppleScript editor before transferring > the script to HyperCard or Rev. > > Secondly, do the bare minimum in AppleScript and do as much as you can in > xTalk - it is faster to run and easier to program & debug. > > With your list of processes, I used the following technique: > > I copied this script into a field: > tell application "Finder" > return every process > end tell > > Then I had a button with this script: > on mouseUp > do fld "AppleScript1" as AppleScript > -- now get what the AppleScript returned > put the result into processList > -- now do your stuff > end mouseUp > > I prefer to use a field rather than assembling the script in a Rev script > because it is much easier to catch any errors and to edit later. You can > hide the field once you have it working properly. If there is any chance of > the AppleScript failing, use a "try" construct and return the error to your > Rev script. ---------- Seems like the way to go EXCEPT for one thing... Why do you say it would be easier to edit a field than a script in the script editor? I know people that do this, of course, and you're obviously one of its fans, but I've never found it easier. I use fields to STORE scripts all the time, because of searchability, but I aways copy and paste ones what I'll actually use into object scripts. Best regards, Ken N. From pixelbird at interisland.net Mon Feb 4 15:38:03 2002 From: pixelbird at interisland.net (Ken Norris (dialup)) Date: Mon Feb 4 15:38:03 2002 Subject: Does Applescript work? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: on 2/3/02 10:07 PM, Jeanne A. E. DeVoto at jeanne at runrev.com wrote: > At 6:27 PM -0800 2/3/2002, Sarah Reichelt wrote: >> Having struggled with AppleScript for many years, I have a few pieces of >> advice. >> [...] >> I prefer to use a field rather than assembling the script in a Rev script >> because it is much easier to catch any errors and to edit later. You can >> hide the field once you have it working properly. > > Sounds like a good set of techniques. You might also try putting the > AppleScript in a custom property and "do"-ing that, rather than a hidden > field - it's a little neater, since you don't have the extra hidden object > rattling around, and you can edit it easily in the properties palette > without having to show the field, make sure it's not behind anything, etc. ---------- I like this idea myself. It might serve as an in-between secure measure. BTW, I've had some conversations with people about using graphics lately. But wait...let me start another thread. I think others may be interested in this. Best regards, Ken N. From pixelbird at interisland.net Mon Feb 4 16:09:01 2002 From: pixelbird at interisland.net (Ken Norris (dialup)) Date: Mon Feb 4 16:09:01 2002 Subject: Using a graphic instead of the standard window shape In-Reply-To: Message-ID: on 2/4/02 7:48 AM, Roger.E.Eller at sealedair.com at Roger.E.Eller at sealedair.com wrote: > I wonder... is it possible to use a Rev command to do a snapshot of the > desktop, but only the area that is behind the Rev application using its > rect coordinates? Then... import that cropped image into the applications > background, making the app appear to be invisible. Hmmm... Can a script do > this magic? ---------- I think so, but...Are you using a Mac? I'm not sure exactly the effect you're looking for. It appears you want the RR app to be a window over the desktop, but with a rounded corner border. In that case, yes, I think. Take a screenshot of the desktop with the app in the place you choose, and import it to RR's or your favorite other paint program. Modify the 'window' border on the one with the app, cut it out, paste it in your app background and make the app window borderless. You may have to do some resizing. Don't know how you plan to hide or show the window, either, but maybe I hope this will help get you on track. Best regards, Ken N. From drvaughan55 at mac.com Mon Feb 4 16:15:01 2002 From: drvaughan55 at mac.com (David Vaughan) Date: Mon Feb 4 16:15:01 2002 Subject: Put data on the clipboard? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <0B85510D-19B4-11D6-BF23-000393598038@mac.com> Art I agree. That was my problem. I still find it odd that I have to create a hidden field (better than off-screen, as Doug Ivers noted) as a roundabout to make this work but I guess it would not be a high priority change if we requested the feature. Also, having to write at least three lines of code (put variable into field; select text of field; copy) where one will do is pretty weak. The same thing happens for paste. regards David On Tuesday, February 5, 2002, at 02:11 , Arthur Evans Jr wrote: > On 4/2/02 7:34 am, David Vaughan wrote: > >> After some testing I find I can use copy and paste to move selected >> text >> between a field and the clipboard, but I want to put data directly >> from >> a variable on to the clipboard without making the text visible and >> selected. How can I do this please? > > and Kevin Miller replied: > >> Place it into a field that is off screen or invisible, then copy that. > > Interesting. This is an incompatability with Hypercard, where I can > write > > put into the clipboard > > Why is that feature missing from Rev? > > Art Evans > _______________________________________________ > use-revolution mailing list > use-revolution at lists.runrev.com > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution > From lrivers at realsoftware.com Mon Feb 4 16:17:00 2002 From: lrivers at realsoftware.com (Lorin Rivers) Date: Mon Feb 4 16:17:00 2002 Subject: REALbasic (was Re: Pocket PC) In-Reply-To: <200202041548.KAA18484@www.runrev.com> References: <200202041548.KAA18484@www.runrev.com> Message-ID: It's not all my intent to hijack the Rev lists and turn this into a discussion of the relative merits of REALbasic versus any other tool. I only respond to questions or to comments that are inaccurate. My position is that, as it is in most things, each person needs to decide for himself if a particular solution addresses their particular problem. Clearly, I have a bias, but despite the fact that I am a "Marketing" person, I don't want someone using REALbasic if it is not the right thing for them. At 10:48 AM -0500 2/4/02, use-revolution-request at lists.runrev.com wrote: > > >> also I heard horrible stories about realBasic applications under Win. >> >> People hear all sorts of things that aren't accurate. You should >> judge for yourself. > >Lets say for the sake of the argument that the stories going around aren't >true (and I have my doubts given the number of them I have heard). REALbasic's Windows support improves with every release. We rarely get complaints about it any more. >The fact is that REALBasic cannot edit or debug a Windows application on >Windows. To develop a Windows application, you must build it on the Mac, go >over to Windows, test it, then come back to the Mac to make changes. If changes are required, that's true. Frequently, it "just works". > Even >*if* the RB system works absolutely perfectly, there are going to be at the >very least some platform specific tweaks that need to be made. See above. > So in the >very best case, this still results in a big reduction in productivity >(again, still assuming that Windows compilation does work smoothly in >REALBasic - you can imagine it is worse if it doesn't). Not at all. The very best case is that the Windows application works flawlessly, "for free". It's true that we charge more for REALbasic Professional (which provides unfettered Windows compiling) than Standard (US$299.95 or US$99.95, respectively), even the demo version compiles time-limited Windows applications. >There is an article on our web site that looks at the differences between >Rev and REALBasic - if you don't have time to read it all you can check out >the summary towards the end. This shows amongst other things the number of >hours needed to develop a simple sample app in Rev or RB. I don't believe the article in question is particularly current about REALbasic's capabilities. Please also check out the numerous independent reviews of REALbasic. Don't take my (or Geoff Canyon's or Kevin Miller's or MacAddict's or MacWorld's or Andy Inhatko's) word for it. Simply decide for yourself. >Kevin > >Kevin Miller >Runtime Revolution Limited - Power to the Developer! >Tel: +44 (0) 870 747 1165. Fax: +44 (0)1639 830 707. Thanks! -- Lorin Rivers 512.263.1233 x712 v Vice President of Marketing 512.263.1441 f REAL Software mailto:lrivers at realsoftware.com PMB 220 http://www.realsoftware.com 3300 Bee Cave Road, Suite 650 Austin, Texas 78746 REALbasic: the powerful, easy-to-use tool for creating your own software for Macintosh, Mac OS X, and Windows. From pixelbird at interisland.net Mon Feb 4 17:00:01 2002 From: pixelbird at interisland.net (Ken Norris (dialup)) Date: Mon Feb 4 17:00:01 2002 Subject: Graphics manipulation and RR In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Hello RR list, I'm still looking at ways to write chunkable graphics to the screen so I can use my image files without always having to manually copy and paste stuff out of other files. There have been several suggestions, but I need to know more about how graphics work in RR, and can't really tell how much of HC's techniques are viable. I prefer to make my final images in external paint programs specifically designed to do filtering, special effects, etc. because that's what they're for. I often edit whole screen images to include the button, field, borders, etc., designs., but I often also want some onscreen animtion-type things to happen with parts of them. These are the kinds of things I'm looking for. Perhaps to Jeanne...Do you still have copies of your graphic manipulation books which might be helpful? I'll look at your site later. Thanks, best regards, Ken N. From sarahr at genesearch.com.au Mon Feb 4 18:18:01 2002 From: sarahr at genesearch.com.au (Sarah Reichelt) Date: Mon Feb 4 18:18:01 2002 Subject: Does Applescript work? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: In HyperCard, you could set the language of a particular script to AppleScript. In Rev, you don't have this option so the AppleScript has to be stored somewhere else or assembled and then used with a "do as AppleScript". Edit the script in an AppleScript editor first and then copy it into a field or property (I like Jeanne's suggestion - I keep forgetting to use properties). All I am saying is that it is better not to try something like: put "tell application " & quote & "Finder" & quote & return in theScript put "return the processes" & return after theScript put "end tell" & return after newScript do theScript as AppleScript This works for a short script but makes debugging very hard. It's much easier if you can see the final script at any stage. Sarah >> I prefer to use a field rather than assembling the script in a Rev script >> because it is much easier to catch any errors and to edit later. You can >> hide the field once you have it working properly. If there is any chance of >> the AppleScript failing, use a "try" construct and return the error to your >> Rev script. > ---------- > Seems like the way to go EXCEPT for one thing... > > Why do you say it would be easier to edit a field than a script in the > script editor? I know people that do this, of course, and you're obviously > one of its fans, but I've never found it easier. I use fields to STORE > scripts all the time, because of searchability, but I aways copy and paste > ones what I'll actually use into object scripts. From jcuccio at pacbell.net Tue Feb 5 01:00:01 2002 From: jcuccio at pacbell.net (John Cuccio) Date: Tue Feb 5 01:00:01 2002 Subject: Defaultstack probelm Message-ID: Mac 8.1 Rev 1.1 Background: I am using a rev stack like a db. Posting info to it. The problem below happens in the Developement & Standalone. on startup set the stackfiles of this stack to "stack2,stack2.rev" end startup on handler set defaultstack to "stack2" send "create card" to last card of stack "stack2" Put info into field 1 of last card set defaultstack to "stack1" end handler Rev keeps creating the new card after the first one. But puts the info into the last card. Same Problem even if I remove "of stack "stack2"" of line 2 of handler But If I do this: During the same time that the standalone is open and I create the stack Stack2 then run the above handler it works fine. If I close the standalone then re open the standalone with out createing the stack, because the stack is already there, then the above handler does not work. I am unsure why one works and the other does not. Thank you From jcuccio at pacbell.net Tue Feb 5 02:05:01 2002 From: jcuccio at pacbell.net (John Cuccio) Date: Tue Feb 5 02:05:01 2002 Subject: defaultstack problem Message-ID: Ok from my other post I think I figured out what is going on but I do not understand why. Well I do a little bit. When I was createing the new stack the first card was the last card. Since I had to go to the stack at some point rev remebered the last/first card ie the current card. So every time I was sendind the create card command it was all ways at the end. When I restarted the standalone Rev set the current card back to the first card of that stack,even though I said of last card. The work around was at startup to go to the last card of that stack. I do not like this because now the screen flashes because of the way the lock screen works. Can I set witch card is the current card with out going to the stack. > Mac 8.1 Rev 1.1 > > Background: I am using a rev stack like a db. Posting info to it. The problem > below happens in the Developement & Standalone. > > on startup > set the stackfiles of this stack to "stack2,stack2.rev" > end startup > > on handler > > set defaultstack to "stack2" > send "create card" to last card of stack "stack2" > Put info into field 1 of last card > set defaultstack to "stack1" > end handler > > Rev keeps creating the new card after the first one. But puts the info into > the last card. Same Problem even if I remove "of stack "stack2"" of line 2 of > handler > > But If I do this: > > During the same time that the standalone is open and I create the stack Stack2 > then run the above handler it works fine. If I close the standalone then re > open the standalone with out createing the stack, because the stack is already > there, then the above handler does not work. > > I am unsure why one works and the other does not. > > Thank you From shaosean at unitz.ca Tue Feb 5 02:14:00 2002 From: shaosean at unitz.ca (Shao Sean) Date: Tue Feb 5 02:14:00 2002 Subject: Copying parts of pictures to the front References: Message-ID: <003301c1ae14$5ad015d0$88b15bd1@dreamlanpc> okay, i finally got it working irregardless of where the base image is located.. this script assumes that the two images (base and swap) are the same sizes and that the areas to be swapped are in the same areas in each picture (which, based on the emails, i assume is what you're doing).. what you'll need to make this script work is the following: - the base image (lowest layer) - the swap image to be grouped (at least one layer higher then the base image) - the buttons (at least one layer higher then the swap image group) also, this script assumes that the base image is called "base", and the group is called "swap".. please feel free to change as needed so without further ado, here are the scripts: -- Group Script on showPiece pButtonLoc, pButtonRect # Declare the variables local hVariance, vVariance -- hVariance is the pixel difference between the left edge of the button and the left edge of the base image plus the extra pixels for the group margins -- vVariance is the pixel difference between the top edge of the button and the top edge of the base image plus the extra pixels for the group margins # Store values into variables put item 1 of pButtonRect - item 1 of the rect of image "base" + the margins of me into hVariance put item 2 of pButtonRect - item 2 of the rect of image "base" + the margins of me into vVariance # Resize and reposition this group set the rect of me to pButtonRect set the loc of me to pButtonLoc # Scroll this group set the hScroll of me to hVariance set the vScroll of me to vVariance # Show the piece set the visible of me to TRUE end showPiece on hidePiece set the visible of me to FALSE end hidePiece -- Button script on mouseEnter send "showPiece the loc of me,the rect of me" to group "swap" end mouseEnter on mouseLeave send "hidePiece" to group "swap" end mouseLeave -- Not part of the scripts, just more of my email ;-) if you have any questions about this script, please feel free to email me.. i also have an example stack (compressed: 90K in size due to the images) From chipp at chipp.com Tue Feb 5 02:47:08 2002 From: chipp at chipp.com (Chipp Walters) Date: Tue Feb 5 02:47:08 2002 Subject: Get the filesize? Message-ID: Anyone know how to get the size of a file? thx. -Chipp -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From dan at gui.com Tue Feb 5 03:20:01 2002 From: dan at gui.com (Dan Shafer) Date: Tue Feb 5 03:20:01 2002 Subject: Employee Database Tutorial "broken" on OS X? Message-ID: Just finishing up going through the Rev tutorials preparatory to starting to really dive into this beast and I encounter a problem. When I bring up the "Independent Study" tutorial stack which is the Employee Database example, a couple of weirdnesses develop. First, there is a mongo button covering up the majority of the data entry fields. I can't for the life of me figure out what it is or why it's there but it sure makes the stack ugly and almost unusable. Second, there's no place for pictures. Third, the tutorial says we can use the images in the sub-folder in the tutorials folder using the "picture feature" but I'm darned if I can find that feature anywhere on the menu bars in the app. Finally, if I have a few new employees defined and then I import from a text file, it clobbers all but the first employee I've added without so much as a by-your-leave or a confirmation dialog. So is this stuff OS X-peculiar or have others seen this stuff? -- Dan Shafer, Personal Creativity Trainer and Consultant Trained Hartman Value Profile Analyst http://www.danshafer.com/valueprofile.html From shaosean at unitz.ca Tue Feb 5 03:20:12 2002 From: shaosean at unitz.ca (Shao Sean) Date: Tue Feb 5 03:20:12 2002 Subject: Get the filesize? References: Message-ID: <004e01c1ae1d$a5822920$88b15bd1@dreamlanpc> returns -1 if it can't find the file.. you can change this to suit your needs -- Start code -- function getFileSize pFullFilePath # Declare the variables local vFilePath, vFileName, vDirectoryListing, vDirectoryListingLine # Split the file's path and name set the itemDelimiter to "/" put the last item of pFullFilePath into vFileName put pFullFilePath into vFilePath delete last item of vFilePath set the itemDelimiter to comma # Change the directory set the defaultFolder to vFilePath # Get the directory listing put the detailed files into vDirectoryListing # Find our file and return the file size if (vFileName is among the items of vDirectoryListing) then repeat for each line vDirectoryListingLine in vDirectoryListing if (item 1 of vDirectoryListingLine = vFileName) then if (the platform is "MacOS") then return item 2 of vDirectoryListingLine + item 3 of vDirectoryListingLine else return item 2 of vDirectoryListingLine end if end if end repeat else return -1 end if end getFileSize -- End Code -- From dan at gui.com Tue Feb 5 03:21:01 2002 From: dan at gui.com (Dan Shafer) Date: Tue Feb 5 03:21:01 2002 Subject: Bug in Creating Distribution Message-ID: Creating a distribution for OS X in OS X. As the standalone gets created and a confirm dialog shows up, I get an error: * There was an Execution Error at 11:44:09 PM Error description: Handler: can't find handler Revolution User Interface Error: Object: card id 1051 of stack "/Diskourse/Applications/Revolution 1.1 OS X/components/tools/revapplicationoverview.rev" -------------------- -------------------- Value: setApplSize The app gets created so it appears no harm is done, but I'm wondering. I've actually seen a few error dialogs since I started this simple exploration stuff using principally tutorials. Does this indicate usual problems with an uprev or what? -- Dan Shafer, Personal Creativity Trainer and Consultant Trained Hartman Value Profile Analyst http://www.danshafer.com/valueprofile.html From iansummerfield at btconnect.com Tue Feb 5 03:24:01 2002 From: iansummerfield at btconnect.com (Ian Summerfield) Date: Tue Feb 5 03:24:01 2002 Subject: Get the filesize? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: AppleScript if it?s a Mac. Which platform? On 5/2/02 7:48 am, "Chipp Walters" scribed: > Anyone know how to get the size of a file? thx. > > -Chipp > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From chipp at chipp.com Tue Feb 5 03:32:01 2002 From: chipp at chipp.com (Chipp Walters) Date: Tue Feb 5 03:32:01 2002 Subject: Get the filesize? In-Reply-To: <004e01c1ae1d$a5822920$88b15bd1@dreamlanpc> Message-ID: I'm on a PC... This looks like the ticket, Shao. Thx! I thought there might be an easier way. BTW, I think I'll insert a put the defaultFolder into oldDefaultFolder before changing it, that way I can restore it at the end. best, Chipp -----Original Message----- From: use-revolution-admin at lists.runrev.com [mailto:use-revolution-admin at lists.runrev.com]On Behalf Of Shao Sean Sent: Tuesday, February 05, 2002 2:18 AM To: use-revolution at lists.runrev.com Subject: Re: Get the filesize? returns -1 if it can't find the file.. you can change this to suit your needs -- Start code -- function getFileSize pFullFilePath # Declare the variables local vFilePath, vFileName, vDirectoryListing, vDirectoryListingLine # Split the file's path and name set the itemDelimiter to "/" put the last item of pFullFilePath into vFileName put pFullFilePath into vFilePath delete last item of vFilePath set the itemDelimiter to comma # Change the directory set the defaultFolder to vFilePath # Get the directory listing put the detailed files into vDirectoryListing # Find our file and return the file size if (vFileName is among the items of vDirectoryListing) then repeat for each line vDirectoryListingLine in vDirectoryListing if (item 1 of vDirectoryListingLine = vFileName) then if (the platform is "MacOS") then return item 2 of vDirectoryListingLine + item 3 of vDirectoryListingLine else return item 2 of vDirectoryListingLine end if end if end repeat else return -1 end if end getFileSize -- End Code -- _______________________________________________ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution at lists.runrev.com http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution From shaosean at unitz.ca Tue Feb 5 03:42:00 2002 From: shaosean at unitz.ca (Shao Sean) Date: Tue Feb 5 03:42:00 2002 Subject: Get the filesize? References: Message-ID: <006a01c1ae20$aef25c70$88b15bd1@dreamlanpc> > This looks like the ticket, Shao. Thx! not a prob.. hope someone else finds it useful too ^_^ > I thought there might be an easier way. mm.. there might be.. anyone? maybe the code can be cleaned up, speed up, etc..? i know that i do a few checks to see if the file really does exist, but that's okay.. doesn't seem to be slow at all.. > BTW, I think I'll insert a put the defaultFolder into oldDefaultFolder > before changing it, that way I can restore it at the end. store the original default folder before calling this function and then restore it after calling it.. or use this modified code.. -- Start code -- function getFileSize pFullFilePath # Declare the variables local vFilePath, vFileName, vDirectoryListing, vDirectoryListingLine, vOriginalDirectory -- CHANGE: added the vOriginalDirectory variable # Store the current default directory put the defaultFolder into vOriginalDirectory -- CHANGE: added this line # Split the file's path and name set the itemDelimiter to "/" put the last item of pFullFilePath into vFileName put pFullFilePath into vFilePath delete last item of vFilePath set the itemDelimiter to comma # Change the directory set the defaultFolder to vFilePath # Get the directory listing put the detailed files into vDirectoryListing # Find our file and return the file size if (vFileName is among the items of vDirectoryListing) then repeat for each line vDirectoryListingLine in vDirectoryListing if (item 1 of vDirectoryListingLine = vFileName) then set the defaultFolder to vOriginalDirectory -- CHANGE: added this line if (the platform is "MacOS") then return item 2 of vDirectoryListingLine + item 3 of vDirectoryListingLine else return item 2 of vDirectoryListingLine end if end if end repeat else return -1 end if end getFileSize -- End Code -- From cowhead at ztv.ne.jp Tue Feb 5 04:30:00 2002 From: cowhead at ztv.ne.jp (cowhead) Date: Tue Feb 5 04:30:00 2002 Subject: Buffer on X vs. Classic Message-ID: <3C5FA636.CBE3E207@ztv.ne.jp> I think this has already been discussed, but at the time I didn't quite follow or pay attention. Anyway, I have this situation: 1. a player is playing a quicktime movie (actually a GIF) with looping 2. I move the player around while it is playing (using move relative) In Mac classic, with the alwaysBuffer of the stack and player set to true, the movement looks nice and smooth (although I think the player pauses briefly during the move). In contrast, with mac OSX, you must set the alwaysBuffer of the player to false, or it disappears, at least briefly, during the move, giving a choppy, blinky appearance. With alwaysBuffer() set to false, the move looks good as it does on classic. BUT: 3. with always buffer set to false, a playing or paused player cannot appear behind a field, even if the layer of the field is way over that of the player. I think this is true on both platforms. So, why does the "alwaysBuffer" of a player work oppositely under X and classic? Bug? thanks, mark in Japan (ps. all results used latest test versions of Rev.) From pixelbird at interisland.net Tue Feb 5 04:54:01 2002 From: pixelbird at interisland.net (Ken Norris (dialup)) Date: Tue Feb 5 04:54:01 2002 Subject: Does Applescript work? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: on 2/4/02 3:15 PM, Sarah Reichelt at sarahr at genesearch.com.au wrote: > In HyperCard, you could set the language of a particular script to > AppleScript. In Rev, you don't have this option so the AppleScript has to be > stored somewhere else or assembled and then used with a "do as AppleScript". > > Edit the script in an AppleScript editor first and then copy it into a field > or property (I like Jeanne's suggestion - I keep forgetting to use > properties). All I am saying is that it is better not to try something like: > > put "tell application " & quote & "Finder" & quote & return in theScript > put "return the processes" & return after theScript > put "end tell" & return after newScript > do theScript as AppleScript > > This works for a short script but makes debugging very hard. It's much > easier if you can see the final script at any stage. ---------- OK. That makes sense, now. I actually thought Rev was scriptable with AS for Mac-only. Silly me. That's why I asked. Ken N. From drvaughan55 at mac.com Tue Feb 5 05:41:01 2002 From: drvaughan55 at mac.com (David Vaughan) Date: Tue Feb 5 05:41:01 2002 Subject: Encrypt/decrypt Message-ID: I thought I recalled seeing mention of encryption within Rev in a previous thread but a content search of the messages I have saved found nothing. How can you encrypt and decrypt data within Rev? Is there an intrinsic function (which I have not yet found) or do I resort to Applescript? This is no longer a stopper for what I am doing but I would like to know the answer. thanks David From JohnRule at aol.com Tue Feb 5 08:36:01 2002 From: JohnRule at aol.com (JohnRule at aol.com) Date: Tue Feb 5 08:36:01 2002 Subject: RealBasic is real basic Message-ID: <117.c0dabc9.2991393d@aol.com> Revolution is runtime (i.e. compile on the fly)...RealBasic is , well, real basic. Programmers have been trapped in the paradigm of 'code/compile/test' for so long that they look at me as if I am from Mars when I mention the term 'runtime'. They don't believe me when I tell them that they can skip the 'compile' stage, and just test. AppleScript may do this, but that is 'Apple' on an 'Apple' platform only (yawn). Revolution is the ONLY environment that is closest to the promise of 'write once, run anywhere'. After trying Codewarrior Professional, and going through the Sun Java certification course to become intimate with Java, I can truly attest to this...everything else is 'real basic' at this point (and really counter-productive IMHO). Now all we need is Windows CE support...then we can take over the world. They didn't call it 'Revolution' for nothing! ;-) JR In a message dated 2/5/02 3:51:36 AM Atlantic Standard Time, Lorin Rivers writes: > REALbasic's Windows support improves with every release. We rarely > get complaints about it any more. > > >The fact is that REALBasic cannot edit or debug a Windows application on > >Windows. To develop a Windows application, you must build it on the Mac, > go > >over to Windows, test it, then come back to the Mac to make changes. > > If changes are required, that's true. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From kevin at runrev.com Tue Feb 5 11:38:00 2002 From: kevin at runrev.com (Kevin Miller) Date: Tue Feb 5 11:38:00 2002 Subject: REALbasic (was Re: Pocket PC) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On 4/2/02 9:13 pm, Lorin Rivers wrote: > It's not all my intent to hijack the Rev lists and turn this into a > discussion of the relative merits of REALbasic versus any other tool. Indeed, this is not the place. >> There is an article on our web site that looks at the differences between >> Rev and REALBasic - if you don't have time to read it all you can check out >> the summary towards the end. This shows amongst other things the number of >> hours needed to develop a simple sample app in Rev or RB. > > I don't believe the article in question is particularly current about > REALbasic's capabilities. The article is as current about REALBasic as it is about Revolution - both products have been revised somewhat since it was written. For example, on the Revolution side, the database features - a key part of Revolution - were not even shipping when the article was written. No doubt there will be a revision of the article at some point to cover the new features in both. But the main points of the article were not about individual features, and thus are not out of date. The main point is that Revolution is simply a more productive environment to work in. You write less code, can then execute it live immediately, and can edit and debug on all platforms. Of course if there is a particular feature that one or other product has that the other doesn't and no external is available that will determine your choice. Otherwise, Revolution offers a lot more productivity on more platforms. And contrary to popular belief, Revolution is a compiled language, which has similar performance to REALBasic. Sure there are some areas one or other as faster, but they are in the same ballpark. > Please also check out the numerous > independent reviews of REALbasic. The fact that REALBasic has been shipping longer does mean that there are currently more reviews of it available. However, Revolution is also making its way steadily into the mainstream press, and our first independent review, by the UK's leading Mac magazine, gave it a five out of five rating and called it the "Holy grail of cross-platform software development". A good start... Kind regards, Kevin Kevin Miller Runtime Revolution Limited - Power to the Developer! Tel: +44 (0) 870 747 1165. Fax: +44 (0)1639 830 707. From rcozens at pon.net Tue Feb 5 11:46:01 2002 From: rcozens at pon.net (Rob Cozens) Date: Tue Feb 5 11:46:01 2002 Subject: RealBasic is real basic In-Reply-To: <117.c0dabc9.2991393d@aol.com> Message-ID: >Revolution is the ONLY environment that is closest to the promise of >'write once, run anywhere'. John, et al: For history's sake, let me point out that there actually once was a "write once run anywhere environment": the UCSD-p operating system & UCSD PASCAL. It ran on a wide range of computers from Dec minicomputers to Radio Shack TRS-80s in the 1970s. Like RR, it was a runtime (ie: interpreted) environment; unlike RR it included its own O/S (which eliminates many cross-platform issues such as different sizes of text). Like RR it included a (reasonably good for the time) debugger and the ability to resolve routine libraries at runtime (ie: 'start using" in Transcript syntax). Several days ago someone suggested there might be a slight performance hit running a RunRev stack created on a Mac on a Windows box because the Intel and Motorola CPU chips read each word in reverse order. In 1986 I spent two frantic weeks trying to find the cause of a dramatic (40-60%) performance degredation of our corporate computer (a multi-user Motorola 68xxx CPU). It turned out that the last O/S upgrade sent me had been created for an Intel 808x! Everything worked just fine; but the operating system was wasting an enormous amount of time reversing the byte sex of every word it read. Watching UCSD-p System lose out to MS/DOS when the IBM PCs originally were introduced, I learned first hand that a technically and functionally superior product can fail a. when competing against an inferior product backed by big advertising $, or b. when corporate management doesn't understand the product or the market. In this case Microsoft offered MS/DOS for $40 while Softech Microsystems charged over $400 for the IBM PC implementation of the p-System. In my book of computer history, Softech's IBM PC pricing strategy and Apple Executives' inability to "get" what HyperCard was all about rank right up there with Xerox's unappreciation of the PARC GUI. Rob Cozens, CCW "Where but America can the person who lost the popular vote become President without a coup?" -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text/enriched Size: 2194 bytes Desc: not available URL: From rcozens at pon.net Tue Feb 5 11:46:04 2002 From: rcozens at pon.net (Rob Cozens) Date: Tue Feb 5 11:46:04 2002 Subject: defaultstack problem In-Reply-To: Message-ID: >> Rev keeps creating the new card after the first one. Hi John, The create command places the new card after the current card, not the card that receives the command. I believe if you go to the last card of stack2 (locking the screen if necessary) before sending the create command, you will find your new card and it's data in the right place every time. Rob Cozens CCW, Serendipity Software Company "And I, which was two fooles, do so grow three; Who are a little wise, the best fooles bee." from "The Triple Foole" by John Donne (1572-1631) From rcozens at pon.net Tue Feb 5 12:05:01 2002 From: rcozens at pon.net (Rob Cozens) Date: Tue Feb 5 12:05:01 2002 Subject: defaultstack problem Message-ID: >> Rev keeps creating the new card after the first one. Moi:>I believe if you go to the last card of stack2 (locking the screen if necessary) before sending the >create command, you will find your new card and it's data in the right >place every time. John... As an aside, since you have to establish a current position in the db stack before adding a new record anyway, you can build your db stack in "record key" or some logical format by creating each new card between the two cards where it would be ordered. For example, my db stacks create records in order by record type and key. Having filed the records in order originally, one can then support relative (ie: previous record, next record) access as well as keyed access. Rob Cozens CCW, Serendipity Software Company "And I, which was two fooles, do so grow three; Who are a little wise, the best fooles bee." from "The Triple Foole" by John Donne (1572-1631) From kevin at runrev.com Tue Feb 5 12:15:01 2002 From: kevin at runrev.com (Kevin Miller) Date: Tue Feb 5 12:15:01 2002 Subject: Get the filesize? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On 5/2/02 7:48 am, Chipp Walters wrote: > Anyone know how to get the size of a file? thx. Check out the long files in 1.1.1B1. Kevin Kevin Miller Runtime Revolution Limited - Power to the Developer! Tel: +44 (0) 870 747 1165. Fax: +44 (0)1639 830 707. From kevin at runrev.com Tue Feb 5 12:15:05 2002 From: kevin at runrev.com (Kevin Miller) Date: Tue Feb 5 12:15:05 2002 Subject: Put data on the clipboard? In-Reply-To: <0B85510D-19B4-11D6-BF23-000393598038@mac.com> Message-ID: On 4/2/02 9:13 pm, David Vaughan wrote: > I agree. That was my problem. > I still find it odd that I have to create a hidden field (better than > off-screen, as Doug Ivers noted) as a roundabout to make this work but I > guess it would not be a high priority change if we requested the feature. > Also, having to write at least three lines of code (put variable into > field; select text of field; copy) where one will do is pretty weak. The > same thing happens for paste. You could write a custom function to do this in one line. This is already on the feature request list and I'll add your vote. Thanks, Kevin Kevin Miller Runtime Revolution Limited - Power to the Developer! Tel: +44 (0) 870 747 1165. Fax: +44 (0)1639 830 707. From rcozens at pon.net Tue Feb 5 12:25:00 2002 From: rcozens at pon.net (Rob Cozens) Date: Tue Feb 5 12:25:00 2002 Subject: defaultstack problem Message-ID: >> Rev keeps creating the new card after the first one. Moi:>I believe if you go to the last card of stack2 (locking the screen if necessary) before sending the >create command, you will find your new card and it's data in the right >place every time. John... There is a third option: If you don't want to have to go to stack2 to create the new record, change your script to > send "create card" to stack "stack2" > Put info into field 1 of card 2 -- New card will always be card 2 so long >as you don't establish a current card position in stack2 Rob Cozens CCW, Serendipity Software Company "And I, which was two fooles, do so grow three; Who are a little wise, the best fooles bee." from "The Triple Foole" by John Donne (1572-1631) From kevin at runrev.com Tue Feb 5 12:29:01 2002 From: kevin at runrev.com (Kevin Miller) Date: Tue Feb 5 12:29:01 2002 Subject: Mac menubar question In-Reply-To: <20020204144148.BUVG28721.mtiwmhc25.worldnet.att.net@webmail.worldnet.att.net> Message-ID: On 4/2/02 2:41 pm, depstein at att.net wrote: > A group of buttons can be used as a Mac menubar, but > there are some differences in behavior between how those > menus work and how the buttons work if they are used > directly, e.g., displayed in a palette. It appears that > I cannot change the contents of a Mac menubar menu "on > mousedown," while I can do that if the button itself is > pressed from a palette. You do get a mouseDown message sent to the group containing the buttons though. Kevin Kevin Miller Runtime Revolution Limited - Power to the Developer! Tel: +44 (0) 870 747 1165. Fax: +44 (0)1639 830 707. From kevin at runrev.com Tue Feb 5 12:29:05 2002 From: kevin at runrev.com (Kevin Miller) Date: Tue Feb 5 12:29:05 2002 Subject: Text encoding In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On 4/2/02 2:42 pm, Tim wrote: > I'm sorry, I should have been more clear. My problem lies in displaying non > english text the same way on both platforms using Rev. So far the only thing > that works is RTF and Unicode (neither of which I fear is supported by rev). > Are there any solutions that you can recommend? At present unicode isn't support, but support for this stuff is planned. In the mean time, search the list archives for a discussion on this issue and if you still can't resolve it please send me a copy of the stack, with screen shots of Mac and Windows and instructions. Kevin Kevin Miller Runtime Revolution Limited - Power to the Developer! Tel: +44 (0) 870 747 1165. Fax: +44 (0)1639 830 707. From yvescoppe at skynet.be Tue Feb 5 14:50:00 2002 From: yvescoppe at skynet.be (yves COPPE) Date: Tue Feb 5 14:50:00 2002 Subject: Icons Message-ID: Hello, I work on Mac I've a resedit file full of cicn. I go to Rev and choose the development menu -> image library I click "new Libray" and give a name : My Icons" How can I import my cicn into my newly created library for use in stacks ? Thanks. -- Greetings. Yves COPPE Email : yvescoppe at skynet.be From devin_asay at byu.edu Tue Feb 5 15:02:01 2002 From: devin_asay at byu.edu (Devin Asay) Date: Tue Feb 5 15:02:01 2002 Subject: Getting a card's position in a group In-Reply-To: <0B85510D-19B4-11D6-BF23-000393598038@mac.com> References: <0B85510D-19B4-11D6-BF23-000393598038@mac.com> Message-ID: Hi all, I can easily go to a specific card relative to its position in a group: go card 3 of group "myGroup" Is there a simple way to return a card's position in the group? similar to: get the number of this card -- returns the card's ordinal position in the stack but what I want is: get the number of this card in group "myGroup" so that it returns the ordinal position within the group. The information must exist somewhere because I can go to a specific card within the group. But how to access it when I'm alread on that card? Devin -- Devin Asay Humanities Research Center Brigham Young University From scott at tactilemedia.com Tue Feb 5 15:43:00 2002 From: scott at tactilemedia.com (Scott Rossi) Date: Tue Feb 5 15:43:00 2002 Subject: Getting a card's position in a group In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Tuesday, February 5, 2002, at 11:59 AM, Devin Asay wrote: > Is there a simple way to return a card's position in the group? Maybe I missed something in your question but I don't think cards can be grouped in the first place. Groups of objects are applied to cards and cards can share groups. But as I said, maybe I'm missing something... Regards, Scott Rossi Creative Director, Tactile Media scott at tactilemedia.com http://www.tactilemedia.com From devin_asay at byu.edu Tue Feb 5 16:51:00 2002 From: devin_asay at byu.edu (Devin Asay) Date: Tue Feb 5 16:51:00 2002 Subject: Getting a card's position in a group In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: At 12:41 PM -0800 2/5/02, Scott Rossi wrote: >On Tuesday, February 5, 2002, at 11:59 AM, Devin Asay wrote: > >>Is there a simple way to return a card's position in the group? > >Maybe I missed something in your question but I don't think cards >can be grouped in the first place. Groups of objects are applied to >cards and cards can share groups. But as I said, maybe I'm missing >something... Sorry, I should have stated it more clearly. When a number of cards all have the same group placed upon them, especially if the group's backgroundBehavior property is set to true, they can be said to be members of the same group or the same background. (Former HyperCarders find it useful to think in terms of cards on backgrounds, which in Rev means cards sharing a common group.) Once you have this configuration it is possible to refer to cards in an order that is specific to all cards that share that group; hence I can go to card n of group "myGroup" This implies that there is an internal index that keeps track of the order in which those cards were added to the group. What I'm trying to find out is if there's a way to access that index, in the same way that I can access the stack's index when I use get the number of this card Any ideas? Devin -- Devin Asay Humanities Research Center Brigham Young University From ncollins at hih.com.au Tue Feb 5 16:59:00 2002 From: ncollins at hih.com.au (ncollins at hih.com.au) Date: Tue Feb 5 16:59:00 2002 Subject: Employee Database Tutorial "broken" on OS X? Message-ID: Yes, it's a bit weird. > First, there is a mongo button covering up the majority of the data > entry fields. I can't for the life of me figure out what it is or why > it's there but it sure makes the stack ugly and almost unusable. This is the image button, click on it to select an image. The image is meant to appear on or over the button, but this doesn't seem to always work in the OS X version either. > Second, there's no place for pictures. > > Third, the tutorial says we can use the images in the sub-folder in > the tutorials folder using the "picture feature" but I'm darned if I > can find that feature anywhere on the menu bars in the app. See above... > Finally, if I have a few new employees defined and then I import from > a text file, it clobbers all but the first employee I've added > without so much as a by-your-leave or a confirmation dialog Haven't tried this, however as a demo app I wouldn't be surprised if it was a bit lite-on when it comes to error handling and confirmation boxes. -- Neal Collins From jswitte at bloomington.in.us Tue Feb 5 19:49:01 2002 From: jswitte at bloomington.in.us (Jim Witte) Date: Tue Feb 5 19:49:01 2002 Subject: Using other languages (Java, Perl, Python, etc) in Rev In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <02691CE4-1A9B-11D6-9113-000A27D93820@bloomington.in.us> Is there any way to extend the scripting architecture of Revolution to support completely different languages than Transcript, specifically bytecode languages like Java, Perl (at least P6 based on Parrot), and maybe Python (I'm not sure if it's bytecode based)? Jim From pixelbird at interisland.net Tue Feb 5 19:54:01 2002 From: pixelbird at interisland.net (Ken Norris (dialup)) Date: Tue Feb 5 19:54:01 2002 Subject: Notice: I'm losing DSL In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Notice: I am losing my current, almost free, DSL connection TODAY (sob, sob). The outfit whose T1 server's ethernet I'm on is shutting their doors. It may be a bit more difficult to do email than usual (to say nothing about file download times). Depends on when I'm home (my dialup sevice) instead of my little office. Wish me well getting another high speed connection. Thanks, Ken N. From gcanyon at inspiredlogic.com Tue Feb 5 20:06:01 2002 From: gcanyon at inspiredlogic.com (Geoff Canyon) Date: Tue Feb 5 20:06:01 2002 Subject: Using other languages (Java, Perl, Python, etc) in Rev In-Reply-To: <02691CE4-1A9B-11D6-9113-000A27D93820@bloomington.in.us> References: <02691CE4-1A9B-11D6-9113-000A27D93820@bloomington.in.us> Message-ID: At 7:46 PM -0500 2/5/02, Jim Witte wrote: > Is there any way to extend the scripting architecture of Revolution to support completely different languages than Transcript, specifically bytecode languages like Java, Perl (at least P6 based on Parrot), and maybe Python (I'm not sure if it's bytecode based)? Transcript is very much like the byte-code languages you describe -- what's your goal? If it's simply to use a different syntax, that's not likely, but if you're simply looking for the performance benefits such languages provide, look no further -- you're already there! :-) regards, Geoff From michaell at unimelb.edu.au Tue Feb 5 22:19:01 2002 From: michaell at unimelb.edu.au (Michael J. Lew) Date: Tue Feb 5 22:19:01 2002 Subject: PreOpenStack confusion Message-ID: How do I set a clean-up operation to work when a stack is first opened, but not when I change to another stack such as a substack or even the documentation? My attempt using a preopenstack handler in the stack that I want to clean triggers whenever I open ANY stack, and of course fails because the false-triggering stack doesn't have the objects referred to in the clean-up routine. I want to (i) trigger the handler when the user first starts a particular stack, (ii) not have it operate when that stack is returned to from a different stack in a session, and (iii) only have it operate on the appropriate stack. These sound easy, but I can't see a way to do it without conditionals testing the name of the stack and a global holding information regarding whether the clean-up has been run already. Surely it is easier than that! Regards, -- Michael J. Lew Senior Lecturer Department of Pharmacology The University of Melbourne Parkville 3010 Victoria Australia Phone +613 8344 8304 ** New email address: michaell at unimelb.edu.au ** From sarahr at genesearch.com.au Tue Feb 5 22:32:00 2002 From: sarahr at genesearch.com.au (Sarah Reichelt) Date: Tue Feb 5 22:32:00 2002 Subject: PreOpenStack confusion In-Reply-To: Message-ID: I don't know how to stop it happening when you return to the stack, but the way I stop it happening when opening other stacks is to give the other stacks empty handlers of the same name. If the substacks have in their scripts: on preOpenStack end preOpenStack with no "pass", then they won't try & run your main stacks preOpenStack handler. I hope someone else has a neat solution to problem (ii). Cheers, Sarah > How do I set a clean-up operation to work when a stack is first > opened, but not when I change to another stack such as a substack or > even the documentation? My attempt using a preopenstack handler in > the stack that I want to clean triggers whenever I open ANY stack, > and of course fails because the false-triggering stack doesn't have > the objects referred to in the clean-up routine. > > I want to (i) trigger the handler when the user first starts a > particular stack, (ii) not have it operate when that stack is > returned to from a different stack in a session, and (iii) only have > it operate on the appropriate stack. These sound easy, but I can't > see a way to do it without conditionals testing the name of the > stack and a global holding information regarding whether the clean-up > has been run already. Surely it is easier than that! > > Regards, > > -- > Michael J. Lew > > Senior Lecturer > Department of Pharmacology > The University of Melbourne > Parkville 3010 > Victoria > Australia > > Phone +613 8344 8304 > > ** > New email address: michaell at unimelb.edu.au > ** > _______________________________________________ > use-revolution mailing list > use-revolution at lists.runrev.com > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution > From terry at discovery.nl Tue Feb 5 22:50:01 2002 From: terry at discovery.nl (Terry Vogelaar) Date: Tue Feb 5 22:50:01 2002 Subject: Employee Database Tutorial "broken" on OS X? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: >> First, there is a mongo button covering up the majority of the data >> entry fields. I can't for the life of me figure out what it is or why >> it's there but it sure makes the stack ugly and almost unusable. > > This is the image button, click on it to select an image. The image is > meant to appear on or over the button, but this doesn't seem to always > work in the OS X version either. Neighter does it work on Mac OS classic 9.2.2 here. Terry From shaosean at unitz.ca Wed Feb 6 02:17:01 2002 From: shaosean at unitz.ca (Shao Sean) Date: Wed Feb 6 02:17:01 2002 Subject: External Collection for Windows Message-ID: <005001c1aedd$fc550400$88b15bd1@dreamlanpc> I noticed on the website that there is an external collection for MacOS and MacOSX.. is there something like that available for Windows? From kmajor at metascape.org Wed Feb 6 03:21:01 2002 From: kmajor at metascape.org (Klaus Major) Date: Wed Feb 6 03:21:01 2002 Subject: PreOpenStack confusion In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <432674DC-1ADA-11D6-928D-003065D52E8E@metascape.org> Hi Michael, > How do I set a clean-up operation to work when a stack is first opened, > but not when I change to another stack such as a substack or even the > documentation? My attempt using a preopenstack handler in the stack > that I want to clean triggers whenever I open ANY stack, and of course > fails because the false-triggering stack doesn't have the objects > referred to in the clean-up routine. > > I want to (i) trigger the handler when the user first starts a > particular stack, (ii) not have it operate when that stack is returned > to from a different stack in a session, and (iii) only have it operate > on the appropriate stack. These sound easy, but I can't see a way to > do it without conditionals testing the name of the stack and a global > holding information regarding whether the clean-up has been run > already. Surely it is easier than that! > > Regards, > > -- Michael J. Lew i hope i get your problem right... You want to do some stuff with stacks, but only when they are opened for the first time. Try to store the info (about the clean-up has already been run) in a customproperty of these namely stacks (i love customprops, the best things ever ;-) on is_it_clean the_stack ## Name of the stack to clean here if the is_clean of stack the_stack then exit is_it_clean ... ##your cleaning-stuff here set the is_clean of stack the_stack to true end is_it_clean If is_clean is true, your routine has alredy been run, if is_clean is empty, then the stack is still muddy and dirty... :-) Hope this helps. Regards Klaus Major kmajor at metascape.org From terry at discovery.nl Wed Feb 6 03:34:01 2002 From: terry at discovery.nl (Terry Vogelaar) Date: Wed Feb 6 03:34:01 2002 Subject: Rotatable fields? Message-ID: Is it possible to rotate a field, so the text is easier to read for people who have their screen upside-down? Just kiddin' about that last part. But can it be done? Or should this be a feature request on the improve-revolution list? Terry From sjoerdoptland at mac.com Wed Feb 6 05:15:01 2002 From: sjoerdoptland at mac.com (Sjoerd Op 't Land) Date: Wed Feb 6 05:15:01 2002 Subject: Icons In-Reply-To: Message-ID: yves COPPE wrote/ schreef: > Hello, > > I work on Mac > I've a resedit file full of cicn. > I go to Rev and choose the development menu -> image library > I click "new Libray" and give a name : My Icons" > How can I import my cicn into my newly created library for use in stacks ? Guess you need the GraphicConverter here. > Thanks. Regards, / Groeten, Sjoerd From matt.denton at limelight.com.au Wed Feb 6 05:19:00 2002 From: matt.denton at limelight.com.au (Matt Denton) Date: Wed Feb 6 05:19:00 2002 Subject: Irregular Shaped Windows and Transparency In-Reply-To: <200202051703.MAA13452@www.runrev.com> Message-ID: <7363C5AC-1AEA-11D6-B6EE-0003930B4708@limelight.com.au> Hi ya all, I'm trying to find out if there is a relatively easy way to simulate or create irregularly shaped windows with transparency, similar to Audion on the Mac. I'm hoping there is a way to do it across most common platforms: Mac OS9, PC and again under OSX, I haven't seen it under Windows. My question is this: is there a new WDEF window resource that allows images or PICTs to be the mask for a window? Is this also implemented in Windows? Would it require a simple create in a Resource editor (ResEdit etc) or is the entire process more complicated? Could I fudge it with QTime? Would it require an XCMD/XFCN to work? I searched the archives and found a small discussion on this topic, thanks Geoff and Scott. I followed through Google and other sources but didn't really turn up any solid info. Seems as if QTime 5 can handle this (thanks Geoff for http://www.movtv.com/ reference). After 4-5 hours of searching I'm hoping someone can point me in the right direction. Unfortunately I have little System calls OS experience in either Mac or PC but I'm willing to hunt down info if someone could help point me in the right direction... Many thanks! M at tt Denton From dcragg at lacscentre.co.uk Wed Feb 6 05:20:00 2002 From: dcragg at lacscentre.co.uk (Dave Cragg) Date: Wed Feb 6 05:20:00 2002 Subject: PreOpenStack confusion In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: At 2:16 pm +1100 6/2/02, Michael J. Lew wrote: >How do I set a clean-up operation to work when a stack is first >opened, but not when I change to another stack such as a substack or >even the documentation? My attempt using a preopenstack handler in >the stack that I want to clean triggers whenever I open ANY stack, >and of course fails because the false-triggering stack doesn't have >the objects referred to in the clean-up routine. > >I want to (i) trigger the handler when the user first starts a >particular stack, (ii) not have it operate when that stack is >returned to from a different stack in a session, and (iii) only have >it operate on the appropriate stack. These sound easy, but I can't >see a way to do it without conditionals testing the name of the >stack and a global holding information regarding whether the >clean-up has been run already. Surely it is easier than that! Something like this in the stack script: local lcStarted on preOpenStack if the owner of the target is me then if not lcStarted myCleanUp ##your stuff here put true into lcStarted end if end if end preOpenStack The target of a preOpenStack handler is the card, so you need to compare its "owner" with the stack in question. Cheers Dave Cragg (Revolution -- It's got the power) From terry at discovery.nl Wed Feb 6 05:34:01 2002 From: terry at discovery.nl (Terry Vogelaar) Date: Wed Feb 6 05:34:01 2002 Subject: Number or not? Message-ID: Hello all, Simple question: is there a way to verify if a variable is a number? AppleScript makes a difference between 2 and "2", but it also does not accept string-parameters without quotes. So I want to put quotes around a parameter only when it is not a number. Any suggestions? Terry From drvaughan55 at mac.com Wed Feb 6 05:43:00 2002 From: drvaughan55 at mac.com (David Vaughan) Date: Wed Feb 6 05:43:00 2002 Subject: Matchchunk problem? Message-ID: <0CFF96B3-1AEE-11D6-AC87-000393598038@mac.com> The following script: put "frog frog" into avar put 1 into x put 1 into y get matchchunk(avar,"F*g",x,y) put it && x && y returns "true " ...so what happened to the chunk values expected in "x" and "y" ? What I was REALLY trying to test was whether it would return in x and y "1 4" or "1 9", but now I would love to know why I get neither (matchtext fails similarly). What have I done wrong? thanks David From drvaughan55 at mac.com Wed Feb 6 05:49:00 2002 From: drvaughan55 at mac.com (David Vaughan) Date: Wed Feb 6 05:49:00 2002 Subject: Number or not? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Terry Have you tried the function "isnumber()" in Transcript? cheers David On Wednesday, February 6, 2002, at 09:31 , Terry Vogelaar wrote: > Hello all, > > Simple question: is there a way to verify if a variable is a number? > AppleScript makes a difference between 2 and "2", but it also does not > accept string-parameters without quotes. So I want to put quotes > around a > parameter only when it is not a number. Any suggestions? > > Terry > > _______________________________________________ > use-revolution mailing list > use-revolution at lists.runrev.com > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution > From shaosean at unitz.ca Wed Feb 6 06:00:01 2002 From: shaosean at unitz.ca (Shao Sean) Date: Wed Feb 6 06:00:01 2002 Subject: Number or not? References: Message-ID: <001701c1aefd$387dec20$88b15bd1@dreamlanpc> in transcript there is no difference between passing the data as 2 or "2" depending on your code, transcript automatically typesets the data.. examples: on mouseUp answer buildString(2) answer addNumbers("2") end mouseUp function buildString pInput return "Do you remember when you were" && pInput & "?" end buildString function addNumbers pInput return pInput + pInput end addNumbers i may be thinking of another language (perhaps PHP?) but i believe (and too lazy to launch runrev/mc) that even passing the words "two" you can still do numeric functions on it on mouseUp answer addNumbers("two") end mouseUp you may want to check this one to be sure.. From pdel at noos.fr Wed Feb 6 06:45:01 2002 From: pdel at noos.fr (Pierre Delain) Date: Wed Feb 6 06:45:01 2002 Subject: insertion point In-Reply-To: <200202060723.CAA28912@www.runrev.com> Message-ID: When I click into some of my unlocked fields to edit text, the insertion point (I mean the vertical bar used to select text) does not appear, although text is editable. This happens for some of my fields, not all of them (I don't understand why, since they are exactly the same). How can I have it back? Thanks Pierre From dcragg at lacscentre.co.uk Wed Feb 6 08:08:01 2002 From: dcragg at lacscentre.co.uk (Dave Cragg) Date: Wed Feb 6 08:08:01 2002 Subject: Matchchunk problem? In-Reply-To: <0CFF96B3-1AEE-11D6-AC87-000393598038@mac.com> References: <0CFF96B3-1AEE-11D6-AC87-000393598038@mac.com> Message-ID: At 9:41 pm +1100 6/2/02, David Vaughan wrote: >The following script: > put "frog frog" into avar > put 1 into x > put 1 into y > get matchchunk(avar,"F*g",x,y) > put it && x && y > >returns "true " ...so what happened to the chunk values expected >in "x" and "y" ? >What I was REALLY trying to test was whether it would return in x >and y "1 4" or "1 9", but now I would love to know why I get neither >(matchtext fails similarly). What have I done wrong? > This regex stuff needs a twisted mind to master. :) Two problems with the script: 1. The regular expression "F*g" is trying to match "any number of F's , including none" followed by a "g". This means if there is a "g" anywhere in the text, it will match and thus return true. I think you want "F.*g" ("F" followed by any number of characters followed by "g") 2. To get values returned in the variables, you need to enclose the relevant part of the regex in parentheses. on mouseUp put "frog frog" into avar put 1 into x put 1 into y get matchchunk(avar,"(F.*g)",x,y) put it && x && y end mouseUp It returns "true 1 9" Cheers Dave Cragg (Revolution --It's got the power) From mark_mitchell at kmug.org Wed Feb 6 08:53:01 2002 From: mark_mitchell at kmug.org (Mark Mitchell) Date: Wed Feb 6 08:53:01 2002 Subject: preOpenstack cleaning In-Reply-To: <200202060718.CAA28580@www.runrev.com> References: <200202060718.CAA28580@www.runrev.com> Message-ID: >>use-revolution at lists.runrev.com writes: >I want to (i) trigger the handler when the user first starts a >particular stack, (ii) not have it operate when that stack is >returned to from a different stack in a session, and (iii) only have >it operate on the appropriate stack. These sound easy, but I can't >see a way to do it without conditionals testing the name of the >stack and a global holding information regarding whether the clean-up has been run already. Surely it is easier than that! I would set a custom property of the stack and then set it back on closeStack (or shutdown... depending on how you want it to function) thus: On preOpenstack if the CustomProperties of me is "dirty" then do the cleaning stuff set the customProperties of me to "clean" end if end preOpenStack on closeStack --or shutdown if the customProperties of me is "clean" then set the customProperties of me to "dirty" end closeStack I've done similar things like this before. Hope it works for you.. kanpai! mark in Japan From cowhead at ztv.ne.jp Wed Feb 6 08:59:01 2002 From: cowhead at ztv.ne.jp (cowhead) Date: Wed Feb 6 08:59:01 2002 Subject: Warning about Metacard Carbon Message-ID: <3C6136CF.FF6DF491@ztv.ne.jp> If you use Mac Classic Rev or metacard to create a stack, and then save it as a metacard stack.....be careful! If you are running classic OS and both carbon and classic metacard engines are on the system, and you click directly on the stack, it will open it in metacard Carbon (when it should be classic) and doing so can wipe the stack clean. All controls and scripts simply disappear. So, of course back up everything, and make sure that metacard carbon is either not available or that you open classic stacks only via classic metacards open stack menu. Got all that?! mark mitchell japan From michaell at unimelb.edu.au Wed Feb 6 09:53:01 2002 From: michaell at unimelb.edu.au (Michael J. Lew) Date: Wed Feb 6 09:53:01 2002 Subject: Preopenstack confusion Message-ID: How do I set a clean-up operation to work when a stack is first opened, but not when I change to another stack such as a substack or even the documentation? My attempt using a preopenstack handler in the stack that I want to clean triggers whenever I open ANY stack, and of course fails because the false-triggering stack doesn't have the objects referred to in the clean-up routine. I want to (i) trigger the handler when the user first starts a particular stack, (ii) not have it operate when that stack is returned to from a different stack in a session, and (iii) only have it operate on the appropriate stack. These sound easy, but I can't see a way to do it without conditionals testing the name of the stack and a global holding information regarding whether the clean-up has been run already. Surely it is easier than that! Regards, -- Michael J. Lew Senior Lecturer Department of Pharmacology The University of Melbourne Parkville 3010 Victoria Australia Phone +613 8344 8304 ** New email address: michaell at unimelb.edu.au ** From Roger.E.Eller at sealedair.com Wed Feb 6 09:55:01 2002 From: Roger.E.Eller at sealedair.com (Roger.E.Eller at sealedair.com) Date: Wed Feb 6 09:55:01 2002 Subject: Rotatable fields? Message-ID: Terry, > Is it possible to rotate a field, so the text is easier to read for people > who have their screen upside-down? Just kiddin' about that last part. But > can it be done? Or should this be a feature request on the > improve-revolution list? > > Terry I don't have a clue if this can be done or not (probably not), but I too have needed this type of functionality in my apps. My workaround was to do this in a paint program, and import an image. However, this is no good if the text needs to change. Feature Request.... Absolutely! ~Roger Eller From troy at rpsystems.net Wed Feb 6 10:07:01 2002 From: troy at rpsystems.net (Troy Rollins) Date: Wed Feb 6 10:07:01 2002 Subject: Irregular Shaped Windows and Transparency In-Reply-To: <7363C5AC-1AEA-11D6-B6EE-0003930B4708@limelight.com.au> Message-ID: Matt Denton wrote: > I searched the archives and found a small discussion on this topic, > thanks Geoff and Scott. I followed through Google and other sources but > didn't really turn up any solid info. Seems as if QTime 5 can handle > this (thanks Geoff for http://www.movtv.com/ reference). After 4-5 > hours of searching I'm hoping someone can point me in the right > direction. QuickTime can support this on both platforms using a one bit mask. It does not currently support areas of "semi-transparency". Things like Audion do not use QT for this function, they have their own coded support for it. As far as I know, Rev does not support this function even if using QT. Currently most developers who need these kind of thing use LiveStage Pro, Director, or iShell, which all do support this QuickTime implementation. -- Troy RPSystems www.rpsystems.net From jcuccio at pacbell.net Wed Feb 6 10:50:01 2002 From: jcuccio at pacbell.net (John Cuccio) Date: Wed Feb 6 10:50:01 2002 Subject: Preopenstack Message-ID: The startup or shutdown handler should do this. They are not sent in the Rev developement. Only Standalone. When working on a project in developement I just have to type startup or shutdown in message box to see if everything is OK. From rcozens at pon.net Wed Feb 6 11:48:01 2002 From: rcozens at pon.net (Rob Cozens) Date: Wed Feb 6 11:48:01 2002 Subject: Preopenstack confusion In-Reply-To: Message-ID: >How do I set a clean-up operation to work when a stack is first >opened, but not when I change to another stack such as a substack or >even the documentation? Hi Michael, As others have already posted, you can set a global flag, field variable, or custom property to indicate whether the stack was previously opened during the session. Obviously, if you go for options 2 or 3, you have the problem of when and how to reset the field or property value: you can't reset it on closeStack. Since your desire is to monitor stack status throughout the session, a global will work best because it is "reset" automatically when the runtime engine quits. There is another option: lock messages before returning to the stack and script any needed preOpen/OpenStack functions into the script that returns to the stack. Rob Cozens CCW, Serendipity Software Company "And I, which was two fooles, do so grow three; Who are a little wise, the best fooles bee." from "The Triple Foole" by John Donne (1572-1631) From scott at tactilemedia.com Wed Feb 6 13:07:00 2002 From: scott at tactilemedia.com (Scott Rossi) Date: Wed Feb 6 13:07:00 2002 Subject: Irregular Shaped Windows and Transparency In-Reply-To: <7363C5AC-1AEA-11D6-B6EE-0003930B4708@limelight.com.au> Message-ID: <1898E74C-1B2C-11D6-8258-0003934902A2@tactilemedia.com> On Wednesday, February 6, 2002, at 02:15 AM, Matt Denton wrote: > I'm trying to find out if there is a relatively easy way to simulate or > create irregularly shaped windows with transparency, similar to Audion > on the Mac. I'm hoping there is a way to do it across most common > platforms: Mac OS9, PC and again under OSX, I haven't seen it under > Windows. Easy is a relative term. Custom window shapes can be done in MC/REV on OS9 (Odo WDEF) and Windows (RunRev external collection) but apparently there is not yet any way to handle this on OSX. Regards, Scott Rossi Creative Director, Tactile Media scott at tactilemedia.com http://www.tactilemedia.com From pixelbird at interisland.net Wed Feb 6 13:13:01 2002 From: pixelbird at interisland.net (Ken Norris (dialup)) Date: Wed Feb 6 13:13:01 2002 Subject: Rotatable fields? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: on 2/6/02 12:31 AM, Terry Vogelaar at terry at discovery.nl wrote: > Is it possible to rotate a field, so the text is easier to read for people > who have their screen upside-down? Just kiddin' about that last part. But > can it be done? Or should this be a feature request on the > improve-revolution list? ---------- Interesting idea. What's the purpose? You can rotate text of course, like any other drawn thing, but not fields, as far as I've seen. Best regards, Ken N. From troy at rpsystems.net Wed Feb 6 13:22:00 2002 From: troy at rpsystems.net (Troy Rollins) Date: Wed Feb 6 13:22:00 2002 Subject: Irregular Shaped Windows and Transparency In-Reply-To: <1898E74C-1B2C-11D6-8258-0003934902A2@tactilemedia.com> Message-ID: Scott Rossi wrote: > Custom window shapes can be done in MC/REV on OS9 (Odo WDEF) and Windows > (RunRev external collection) but apparently there is not yet any way to > handle this on OSX. Interesting. Do you know if this supports levels of transparency or just one bit masks? -- Troy RPSystems www.rpsystems.net From scott at tactilemedia.com Wed Feb 6 13:57:00 2002 From: scott at tactilemedia.com (Scott Rossi) Date: Wed Feb 6 13:57:00 2002 Subject: Irregular Shaped Windows and Transparency In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <0BD5513C-1B33-11D6-AE28-0003934902A2@tactilemedia.com> On Wednesday, February 6, 2002, at 10:20 AM, Troy Rollins wrote: >> Custom window shapes can be done in MC/REV on OS9 (Odo WDEF) and >> Windows >> (RunRev external collection) but apparently there is not yet any way to >> handle this on OSX. > > Interesting. Do you know if this supports levels of transparency or > just one > bit masks? Until OSX (and possibly XP), no system has ever supported higher than 1 bit masking, as far as I know. Even Audion on OS9 used a hack of clipping portions of the desktop within the player window and then placing a shadow graphic on the clipped region to make it appear as if the player cast dropshadows with variable translucency (8 bits). But it still used a one bit mask. So the answer to your question is, one bit masks only for pre OSX and XP systems. We'll have to wait and see what is possible on OSX and XP. Regards, Scott Rossi Creative Director, Tactile Media scott at tactilemedia.com http://www.tactilemedia.com From k_major at osnabrueck.netsurf.de Wed Feb 6 14:08:00 2002 From: k_major at osnabrueck.netsurf.de (Klaus Major) Date: Wed Feb 6 14:08:00 2002 Subject: Rotatable fields? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <96D53DDE-1B34-11D6-9A42-000A27B49A96@osnabrueck.netsurf.de> Hi Ken, > on 2/6/02 12:31 AM, Terry Vogelaar at terry at discovery.nl wrote: > >> Is it possible to rotate a field, so the text is easier to read for >> people >> who have their screen upside-down? Just kiddin' about that last part. >> But >> can it be done? Or should this be a feature request on the >> improve-revolution list? > ---------- > Interesting idea. What's the purpose? > You can rotate text of course, like any other drawn thing, Would you like to share this secret to this lovely community, please ;-) (In case you are not talking about creating text with the draw-tools (:-) in MC/RR...) > but not fields, as far as I've seen. That's true. > Best regards, > Ken N. Regards from germany Klaus Major k_major at osnabrueck.netsurf.de From k_major at osnabrueck.netsurf.de Wed Feb 6 14:12:00 2002 From: k_major at osnabrueck.netsurf.de (Klaus Major) Date: Wed Feb 6 14:12:00 2002 Subject: Irregular Shaped Windows and Transparency In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <56C91A42-1B35-11D6-9A42-000A27B49A96@osnabrueck.netsurf.de> Hi Troy, > Scott Rossi wrote: > >> Custom window shapes can be done in MC/REV on OS9 (Odo WDEF) and >> Windows >> (RunRev external collection) but apparently there is not yet any way to >> handle this on OSX. > > Interesting. Do you know if this supports levels of transparency or > just one > bit masks? Cannot say anything about Odo. Except that most computer-folks are SciFi-fans, obviously ;-) But the win-xternal needs a polygon for the window-shape :-( This is a little bit ehmm... unhandy ;-) But levels of transparency are defintively not supported, unfortunately. Hope this helps. Regards Klaus Major k_major at osnabrueck.netsurf.de From rcozens at pon.net Wed Feb 6 14:38:00 2002 From: rcozens at pon.net (Rob Cozens) Date: Wed Feb 6 14:38:00 2002 Subject: Preopenstack confusion In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Moi:>Since your desire is to monitor stack status >throughout the session, a global will work best because it is "reset" >automatically when the runtime engine quits. Michael, et al: You could use one global variable and one handler for all stacks that need cleanup: on preOpenStack global openedStacks put openedStacks into stackList -- I move globals to local variables before list -- operations...posibly not needed put true into listMe get the id of the target repeat for each line l in stackList if it is not l then next repeat put false into listMe exit repeat end repeat if listMe then put it&return after openedStacks cleanMeUp -- generic call for clean up routines here EN otherPreopenLogic -- generic call for "every open" routines here end preOpenStack Rob Cozens CCW, Serendipity Software Company "And I, which was two fooles, do so grow three; Who are a little wise, the best fooles bee." from "The Triple Foole" by John Donne (1572-1631) From yvescoppe at skynet.be Wed Feb 6 15:51:01 2002 From: yvescoppe at skynet.be (yves COPPE) Date: Wed Feb 6 15:51:01 2002 Subject: popUp btn Message-ID: Hello I have a popUp btn. I've created a group for this btn with background behavior set to true. I have many cards in the stack and the popUp is on each card. The user chooses an item in one card and another one in another card. So when the menu is changed on one card, he is also changed in all the cds I'd like the choosen item would be specific for each card and thus may be different from one cd to another. How can I proceed ?? -- Greetings. Yves COPPE Email : yvescoppe at skynet.be From michaell at unimelb.edu.au Wed Feb 6 16:57:00 2002 From: michaell at unimelb.edu.au (Michael J. Lew) Date: Wed Feb 6 16:57:00 2002 Subject: Preopenstack confusion Message-ID: Thanks for the responses to my query. I have used a combination of several of the suggestions: a global holding the has_been_cleaned flag (because it will automatically expire at the end of a session) and empty preOpenStack handlers in the substacks (because my father always liked belt-and-braces approaches). Sorry for the double posting. I sent the first to a miss-typed address and didn't expect it to get there. Regards -- Michael J. Lew Senior Lecturer Department of Pharmacology The University of Melbourne Parkville 3010 Victoria Australia Phone +613 8344 8304 ** New email address: michaell at unimelb.edu.au ** From tim11 at bellatlantic.net Wed Feb 6 19:12:01 2002 From: tim11 at bellatlantic.net (Tim) Date: Wed Feb 6 19:12:01 2002 Subject: Hierarchical menus Message-ID: One simple question: How do you create sub-items in Hierarchical button menus. I've tried return and tab, but tab tabs out of the field. What's the secret? -- Tim From drvaughan55 at mac.com Wed Feb 6 19:30:01 2002 From: drvaughan55 at mac.com (David Vaughan) Date: Wed Feb 6 19:30:01 2002 Subject: Matchchunk problem? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Dave Thanks for that. The regex part is no problem. Not immediately finding the form of it I assumed it was primitive DOS-like stuff (I should have read your sign-off line!) but the bit about enclosing it in parentheses to capture the values was the crucial part I missed. Thanks again. David On Thursday, February 7, 2002, at 12:05 , Dave Cragg wrote: > At 9:41 pm +1100 6/2/02, David Vaughan wrote: >> The following script: >> put "frog frog" into avar >> put 1 into x >> put 1 into y >> get matchchunk(avar,"F*g",x,y) >> put it && x && y >> >> returns "true " ...so what happened to the chunk values expected >> in "x" and "y" ? >> What I was REALLY trying to test was whether it would return in x >> and y "1 4" or "1 9", but now I would love to know why I get neither >> (matchtext fails similarly). What have I done wrong? >> > > This regex stuff needs a twisted mind to master. :) > > Two problems with the script: > > 1. The regular expression "F*g" is trying to match "any number of F's , > including none" followed by a "g". This means if there is a "g" > anywhere in the text, it will match and thus return true. > > I think you want "F.*g" ("F" followed by any number of characters > followed by "g") > > 2. To get values returned in the variables, you need to enclose the > relevant part of the regex in parentheses. > > on mouseUp > put "frog frog" into avar > put 1 into x > put 1 into y > get matchchunk(avar,"(F.*g)",x,y) > put it && x && y > end mouseUp > > It returns "true 1 9" > > Cheers > > Dave Cragg > (Revolution --It's got the power) > _______________________________________________ > use-revolution mailing list > use-revolution at lists.runrev.com > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution > From jeanne at runrev.com Wed Feb 6 20:27:01 2002 From: jeanne at runrev.com (Jeanne A. E. DeVoto) Date: Wed Feb 6 20:27:01 2002 Subject: Employee Database Tutorial "broken" on OS X? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: At 7:47 PM -0800 2/5/2002, Terry Vogelaar wrote: >Neighter does it work on Mac OS classic 9.2.2 here. Confirmed this bug in the Employee Database. It will be fixed in the next beta. -- Jeanne A. E. DeVoto ~ jeanne at runrev.com http://www.runrev.com/ Runtime Revolution Limited - Power to the Developer! From jeanne at runrev.com Wed Feb 6 20:28:34 2002 From: jeanne at runrev.com (Jeanne A. E. DeVoto) Date: Wed Feb 6 20:28:34 2002 Subject: Employee Database Tutorial "broken" on OS X? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: At 12:17 AM -0800 2/5/2002, Dan Shafer wrote: >First, there is a mongo button covering up the majority of the data >entry fields. I can't for the life of me figure out what it is or why >it's there but it sure makes the stack ugly and almost unusable. It looks like there was a problem with the geometry management in that stack - the button is supposed to be to the right of the name and job title fields, but instead it was getting moved over when the template stack was cloned. Oops. >Second, there's no place for pictures. The button is where the pictures go. >Finally, if I have a few new employees defined and then I import from >a text file, it clobbers all but the first employee I've added >without so much as a by-your-leave or a confirmation dialog. This was a bug in the import script. (It wasn't actually deleting the records from the stack, just from the list.) Thanks for the reports. These should be fixed in 1.1.1b2. -- Jeanne A. E. DeVoto ~ jeanne at runrev.com http://www.runrev.com/ Runtime Revolution Limited - Power to the Developer! From jeanne at runrev.com Wed Feb 6 20:29:58 2002 From: jeanne at runrev.com (Jeanne A. E. DeVoto) Date: Wed Feb 6 20:29:58 2002 Subject: Using other languages (Java, Perl, Python, etc) in Rev In-Reply-To: <02691CE4-1A9B-11D6-9113-000A27D93820@bloomington.in.us> References: Message-ID: At 4:46 PM -0800 2/5/2002, Jim Witte wrote: > Is there any way to extend the scripting architecture of Revolution to >support completely different languages than Transcript, specifically >bytecode languages like Java, Perl (at least P6 based on Parrot), and >maybe Python (I'm not sure if it's bytecode based)? You can run scripts in other languages (using shell or launch). And on Macs, Revolution supports OSA, so you can run scripts written in any OSA language (AppleScript, Frontier, Perl, Javascript, there may be others) from within your application without starting up an interpreter. However, if you're asking whether there's a way to plug in other languages so they can use Rev's built-in commands, directly manipulate objects, and so on, no, there isn't. -- Jeanne A. E. DeVoto ~ jeanne at runrev.com http://www.runrev.com/ Runtime Revolution Limited - Power to the Developer! From jeanne at runrev.com Wed Feb 6 20:31:23 2002 From: jeanne at runrev.com (Jeanne A. E. DeVoto) Date: Wed Feb 6 20:31:23 2002 Subject: Hierarchical menus In-Reply-To: Message-ID: At 4:10 PM -0800 2/6/2002, Tim wrote: >One simple question: How do you create sub-items in Hierarchical button >menus. I've tried return and tab, but tab tabs out of the field. What's the >secret? It looks like this is a limitation in the Properties palette - I'll check on it and put in a bug report, but meanwhile, you were right that tab is what you want. As a workaround, you can use something like this in the message box: put tab before line 2 of button "My Menu" -- Jeanne A. E. DeVoto ~ jeanne at runrev.com http://www.runrev.com/ Runtime Revolution Limited - Power to the Developer! From bornstein at designeq.com Wed Feb 6 20:36:01 2002 From: bornstein at designeq.com (Howard Bornstein) Date: Wed Feb 6 20:36:01 2002 Subject: Rotatable fields? Message-ID: <200202070135.UAA15789@www.runrev.com> I also recently had a need for this. I wanted to rotate a button 90 degrees and have the label rotate with it. Unfortunately, it doesn't work. This would be a very useful feature (fields too, obviously) but currently it appears the only thing you can rotate is an image object. As was mentioned before, this will work but it makes it a lot of work to update the text (or background color). Please put this on the feature request list! Howard Bornstein ____________________ D E S I G N E Q www.designeq.com From dave at blackrockmac.com Wed Feb 6 23:37:01 2002 From: dave at blackrockmac.com (Dave Meilstrup) Date: Wed Feb 6 23:37:01 2002 Subject: Looks like HyperCard In-Reply-To: <200202070135.UAA15789@www.runrev.com> Message-ID: Hi. I'm new to Revolution and I created a simple stack that has the Appearance Manager look in the editor, but when I run it by itself (double-click on it when Rev is not open) or when I compile it as a standalone, it looks like a HyperCard stack (white background, no modern buttons, etc.). The funny thing is this did not happen initially whith another stack I made, or at least I don't think it did. What am I missing? Dave Meilstrup From troy at rpsystems.net Wed Feb 6 23:58:02 2002 From: troy at rpsystems.net (Troy Rollins) Date: Wed Feb 6 23:58:02 2002 Subject: Looks like HyperCard In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Dave Meilstrup wrote: > Hi. I'm new to Revolution and I created a simple stack that has the > Appearance Manager look in the editor, but when I run it by itself > (double-click on it when Rev is not open) or when I compile it as a > standalone, it looks like a HyperCard stack (white background, no modern > buttons, etc.). The funny thing is this did not happen initially whith > another stack I made, or at least I don't think it did. What am I missing? This has come up several times in this group. The gist is this - double-clicking a stack opens it, sans the Rev UI. Open the stack in Rev, or create a stand-alone, and all is well. Basically, double-clicking a stack which is not a stand-alone, opens it in Rev in some strange way that no one actually wants to do. ;) -- Troy RPSystems www.rpsystems.net From jeanne at runrev.com Thu Feb 7 01:24:01 2002 From: jeanne at runrev.com (Jeanne A. E. DeVoto) Date: Thu Feb 7 01:24:01 2002 Subject: Looks like HyperCard In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: At 8:56 PM -0800 2/6/2002, Troy Rollins wrote: >This has come up several times in this group. The gist is this - >double-clicking a stack opens it, sans the Rev UI. Open the stack in Rev, or >create a stand-alone, and all is well. Basically, double-clicking a stack >which is not a stand-alone, opens it in Rev in some strange way that no one >actually wants to do. ;) Well, that's not exactly true. ;-) It's a useful mode for testing before you build your actual standalone...but it's pretty much the same thing you get with "Suspend Revolution UI" in the Development menu. -- Jeanne A. E. DeVoto ~ jeanne at runrev.com http://www.runrev.com/ Runtime Revolution Limited - Power to the Developer! From jeanne at runrev.com Thu Feb 7 01:24:32 2002 From: jeanne at runrev.com (Jeanne A. E. DeVoto) Date: Thu Feb 7 01:24:32 2002 Subject: Looks like HyperCard In-Reply-To: References: <200202070135.UAA15789@www.runrev.com> Message-ID: At 8:35 PM -0800 2/6/2002, Dave Meilstrup wrote: >Hi. I'm new to Revolution and I created a simple stack that has the >Appearance Manager look in the editor, but when I run it by itself >(double-click on it when Rev is not open) or when I compile it as a >standalone, it looks like a HyperCard stack (white background, no modern >buttons, etc.). The funny thing is this did not happen initially whith >another stack I made, or at least I don't think it did. What am I missing? I'm not completely sure, but it could be that you're setting the lookAndFeel somewhere in your stack. Have you tried explicitly setting the lookAndFeel to "Appearance Manager"? Also, take a look in the Troubleshooting section of the documentation, under "Why do fonts and colors change when I create a standalone application?" This may be of help. -- Jeanne A. E. DeVoto ~ jeanne at runrev.com http://www.runrev.com/ Runtime Revolution Limited - Power to the Developer! From pixelbird at interisland.net Thu Feb 7 03:43:01 2002 From: pixelbird at interisland.net (Ken Norris (dialup)) Date: Thu Feb 7 03:43:01 2002 Subject: Rotatable fields? In-Reply-To: <96D53DDE-1B34-11D6-9A42-000A27B49A96@osnabrueck.netsurf.de> Message-ID: on 2/6/02 11:06 AM, Klaus Major at k_major at osnabrueck.netsurf.de wrote: >> Interesting idea. What's the purpose? >> You can rotate text of course, like any other drawn thing, > > Would you like to share this secret to this lovely community, please ;-) > > (In case you are not talking about creating text with the > draw-tools (:-) in MC/RR...) ---------- Yeah, sure, I mean text with the draw tools. Of course, if someone really HAS to rotate fields, they can always set the monitor on its side. We did that for a bed-ridden disabled person whose very limited motor functions only worked on one side, so she laid on that side (couldn't use it anyway) most of the time. We positioned the monitor on its side where she could see it easily, gave her a trackball, and let her go crazy. Best regards, Ken N. From gary.dennis at mantissa.com Thu Feb 7 03:45:01 2002 From: gary.dennis at mantissa.com (Gary Dennis) Date: Thu Feb 7 03:45:01 2002 Subject: Is there a way to permit an oject to be "dragged" in rev and some sort of "dropped upon" message capability Message-ID: <003701c1af5d$93b226f0$2a45fea9@mantissasp4600> I have a series of objects that I would like for the user to be able to drag to another area of the active card. Thanks... From pixelbird at interisland.net Thu Feb 7 03:47:01 2002 From: pixelbird at interisland.net (Ken Norris (dialup)) Date: Thu Feb 7 03:47:01 2002 Subject: Rotatable fields? In-Reply-To: <200202070135.UAA15789@www.runrev.com> Message-ID: on 2/6/02 5:33 PM, Howard Bornstein at bornstein at designeq.com wrote: > I also recently had a need for this. I wanted to rotate a button 90 > degrees and have the label rotate with it. Unfortunately, it doesn't work. ---------- Why do you need to rotate the actual button? Just rotate a graphic under a transparent button. HTH...best regards, Ken N. From kmajor at metascape.org Thu Feb 7 04:05:00 2002 From: kmajor at metascape.org (Klaus Major) Date: Thu Feb 7 04:05:00 2002 Subject: ...permit an oject to be "dragged"... In-Reply-To: <003701c1af5d$93b226f0$2a45fea9@mantissasp4600> Message-ID: <908C3A00-1BA9-11D6-A447-003065D52E8E@metascape.org> Hi Gary, > I have a series of objects that I would like for the user to be able to > drag > to another area of the active card. > > Thanks... Try this (in case i got you right). Put this in the script of the object you want the user to drag around: on mousedown grab me end mousedown You could then do some checking "on mouseup" to correct position, or see if the user dropped the object in an "allowed" area of the card or whatsoever... Drop a line, if you need further info (maybe on how to checking etc...) Regards Klaus Major kmajor at metascape.org From terry at discovery.nl Thu Feb 7 05:06:01 2002 From: terry at discovery.nl (Terry Vogelaar) Date: Thu Feb 7 05:06:01 2002 Subject: AppleScript functions made easy Message-ID: In HyperCard I had a stack with a lot of AppleScript functions. Because RR treads AppleScript differently, I tried to make a function which may come in handy for others as well. The basic idea is that you store the AS-functions in a separate file; a normal AppleScript-file. No custom props or fields needed, so you don't have to work with a copy of the script, but you can work with the original, which saves time when the AppleScript function is still in development. Then you must know the path and the name of the function in the file. You call it with: get AppleScriptFunction("nameOfFunction", "path:to:file", 1, 2, "three", "four") Mind that on Mac OS classic you need to use colons in the path (2nd param), while on Mac OS X you must use slashes. Then in the stack-script you can put: function AppleScriptFunction aFun, aFile put "set theScript to load script (alias ""e&aFile"e&")"&return& \ "tell theScript to "&aFun&"(" into ASfunc if paramcount() > 2 then repeat with e = 3 to paramcount() put param(e) into f if param(e) is a number then put f & "," after ASfunc else put quote & f & quote & "," after ASfunc end if end repeat end if put ")" into last char of ASfunc do ASfunc as applescript end AppleScriptFunction Now you can call any function with any number of parameters. The value that is returned by the AppleScript-function is returned by "AppleScriptFunction" as well. Terry From shaosean at unitz.ca Thu Feb 7 05:32:01 2002 From: shaosean at unitz.ca (Shao Sean) Date: Thu Feb 7 05:32:01 2002 Subject: Rotatable fields? References: Message-ID: <000f01c1afc2$6a6d9fd0$88b15bd1@dreamlanpc> > Yeah, sure, I mean text with the draw tools. how does one "draw" text (not using fields, labels, etc).. i'm trying to find something that works like the REALbasic graphic object so I mix and match text and images with greater control then using a field does.. From yvescoppe at skynet.be Thu Feb 7 06:26:01 2002 From: yvescoppe at skynet.be (yves COPPE) Date: Thu Feb 7 06:26:01 2002 Subject: AppleScript functions made easy In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: >In HyperCard I had a stack with a lot of AppleScript functions. Because RR >treads AppleScript differently, I tried to make a function which may come in >handy for others as well. > >The basic idea is that you store the AS-functions in a separate file; a >normal AppleScript-file. No custom props or fields needed, so you don't have >to work with a copy of the script, but you can work with the original, which >saves time when the AppleScript function is still in development. > >Then you must know the path and the name of the function in the file. You >call it with: > >get AppleScriptFunction("nameOfFunction", "path:to:file", 1, 2, "three", >"four") > >Mind that on Mac OS classic you need to use colons in the path (2nd param), >while on Mac OS X you must use slashes. > >Then in the stack-script you can put: > >function AppleScriptFunction aFun, aFile > put "set theScript to load script (alias ""e&aFile"e&")"&return& \ > "tell theScript to "&aFun&"(" into ASfunc > if paramcount() > 2 then > repeat with e = 3 to paramcount() > put param(e) into f > if param(e) is a number then > put f & "," after ASfunc > else > put quote & f & quote & "," after ASfunc > end if > end repeat > end if > put ")" into last char of ASfunc > do ASfunc as applescript >end AppleScriptFunction > >Now you can call any function with any number of parameters. The value that >is returned by the AppleScript-function is returned by "AppleScriptFunction" >as well. > >Terry > Thank you, really very useful ! -- Greetings. Yves COPPE Email : yvescoppe at skynet.be From steve at messimercomputing.com Thu Feb 7 09:22:01 2002 From: steve at messimercomputing.com (Steve Messimer) Date: Thu Feb 7 09:22:01 2002 Subject: script questions Message-ID: Hi, I would like to implement text that hilites itself on mouse over like RR uses in its documentation. Anybody have an script example I could look at? Steve Stephen R. Messimer Messimer Computing, Inc 2501 14th Ave South Escanaba, MI 49829 www.messimercomputing.com From iansummerfield at btconnect.com Thu Feb 7 10:21:00 2002 From: iansummerfield at btconnect.com (Ian Summerfield) Date: Thu Feb 7 10:21:00 2002 Subject: Mac error: Build Distribution - Error 1010 Message-ID: I have a stack/project that I can't open using Revolution 1.1.1 Classic, 1.1 Classic, but can open in the OS X 1.1.1 that created it. If I build the distribution version for PPC (where it needs to be) then that will give the same error when opening, i.e. 1010. It's very frustrating as I've finished the project but can't distribute it! Has anyone else seen this problem? Anyone fancy trying to build me a distribution PPC version? You can get the stack here: http://homepage.mac.com/macabilityuk/FileSharing1.html It's called "Auto Quit.rev" The stack was written to do quit our First Class internet server at 5am each day, and run it up again at 7am. We have to do this to ensure it can be backed up (i.e. No busy files). As a bonus it works as a "keep it up" and a "keep it down", i.e. It will ensure the program selected keeps running during the period it is supposed to, and will ensure it does run during the period it isn't supposed to. I also introduced a delayed launched, this is because we have Vicomsoft on the same machine, if Firstclass launches at boot time before Vicomsoft has finished loading it will not be available on the network, the delay solves this problem. Originally I wrote this in HyperCard. AppleScripts have been used because the processes running reported by RR do not clear if you actually quit the process outside of RR. You may modify and do what you want with the code, if you're nice you might give me some credit! From troy at rpsystems.net Thu Feb 7 10:39:01 2002 From: troy at rpsystems.net (Troy Rollins) Date: Thu Feb 7 10:39:01 2002 Subject: Looks like HyperCard In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Jeanne A. E. DeVoto wrote: > Well, that's not exactly true. ;-) > > It's a useful mode for testing before you build your actual > standalone...but it's pretty much the same thing you get with "Suspend > Revolution UI" in the Development menu. Well, OK. For me alone, applications which are meant to have a UI, but don't, have little value. I must be missing some secret "developer only" value to this "feature". ;) -- Troy RPSystems www.rpsystems.net From bornstein at designeq.com Thu Feb 7 10:40:00 2002 From: bornstein at designeq.com (Howard Bornstein) Date: Thu Feb 7 10:40:00 2002 Subject: Rotatable fields? Message-ID: <200202071539.KAA27732@www.runrev.com> >> I also recently had a need for this. I wanted to rotate a button 90 >> degrees and have the label rotate with it. Unfortunately, it doesn't work. >---------- >Why do you need to rotate the actual button? Just rotate a graphic under a >transparent button. For the reasons that I and Roger stated. It *does* work to create a graphic label and group it to a button, but if you have a lot of these (for example, in my app I need to have a row of buttons across the top and a row down the left side--these are the ones I need rotated) and you need to change the label or background color, it's a lot of graphics editing. And forget being able to change the label on the fly. Believe me, being able to rotate buttons or fields and have the labels and text rotate would be very useful. And at this point, I'd be happy with simply 90 degree rotational increments. :-) Howard Bornstein ____________________ D E S I G N E Q www.designeq.com From kevin at runrev.com Thu Feb 7 10:42:00 2002 From: kevin at runrev.com (Kevin Miller) Date: Thu Feb 7 10:42:00 2002 Subject: insertion point In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On 6/2/02 11:44 am, Pierre Delain wrote: > When I click into some of my unlocked fields to edit text, the insertion > point (I mean the vertical bar used to select text) does not appear, > although text is editable. This happens for some of my fields, not all of > them (I don't understand why, since they are exactly the same). > How can I have it back? Do you have objects over the fields? Kevin Kevin Miller Runtime Revolution Limited - Power to the Developer! Tel: +44 (0) 870 747 1165. Fax: +44 (0)1639 830 707. From kevin at runrev.com Thu Feb 7 10:42:05 2002 From: kevin at runrev.com (Kevin Miller) Date: Thu Feb 7 10:42:05 2002 Subject: Bug in Creating Distribution In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On 5/2/02 8:19 am, Dan Shafer wrote: > Creating a distribution for OS X in OS X. As the standalone gets > created and a confirm dialog shows up, I get an error: You don't appear to be using 1.1.1B1? Kevin Kevin Miller Runtime Revolution Limited - Power to the Developer! Tel: +44 (0) 870 747 1165. Fax: +44 (0)1639 830 707. From kevin at runrev.com Thu Feb 7 10:48:01 2002 From: kevin at runrev.com (Kevin Miller) Date: Thu Feb 7 10:48:01 2002 Subject: Encrypt/decrypt In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On 5/2/02 10:39 am, David Vaughan wrote: > I thought I recalled seeing mention of encryption within Rev in a > previous thread but a content search of the messages I have saved found > nothing. How can you encrypt and decrypt data within Rev? Is there an > intrinsic function (which I have not yet found) or do I resort to > Applescript? This is no longer a stopper for what I am doing but I would > like to know the answer. You can encrypt stacks using the password feature in Distribution Builder which will stop access to the scripts or access to any of the strings in the stack using a text editor. You can however view objects and properties, but not scripts using the UI. Thus some users have stored password protected information in scripts. You could also write your own custom encryption / decryption routine. Kind regards, Kevin Kevin Miller Runtime Revolution Limited - Power to the Developer! Tel: +44 (0) 870 747 1165. Fax: +44 (0)1639 830 707. From mvivit at softcom.net Thu Feb 7 11:18:01 2002 From: mvivit at softcom.net (Mary Vivit) Date: Thu Feb 7 11:18:01 2002 Subject: script questions References: Message-ID: <3C62A815.B87D06FE@softcom.net> Hi, Steve... Here's the way I've implemented something like that. This may not exactly match the Rev doc implementation, but it works for what I'm using it for. In the card or stack script I've set up the following two handlers: on colorMeOn --sets the color to red; globally specify color set the textColor of target to "128,0,0" end colorMeOn on colorMeOff set the textcolor of target to black end colorMeOff In the script for the field, I've used these two: on mouseEnter colorMeOn --other mouseEnter stuff end mouseEnter on mouseLeave colorMeOff --other mouseLeave stuff end mouseLeave Again, there are other ways to do this and other implementations. Mary Vivit mvivit at softcom.net ----- Steve Messimer wrote: > > Hi, > > I would like to implement text that hilites itself on mouse over like RR > uses in its documentation. Anybody have an script example I could look at? > > Steve > > Stephen R. Messimer > Messimer Computing, Inc > 2501 14th Ave South > Escanaba, MI 49829 > www.messimercomputing.com > > _______________________________________________ > use-revolution mailing list > use-revolution at lists.runrev.com > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution From Kim_Smith at byu.edu Thu Feb 7 12:10:01 2002 From: Kim_Smith at byu.edu (Kim L. Smith) Date: Thu Feb 7 12:10:01 2002 Subject: Record Sound on Windows machine Message-ID: <000501c1aff9$df77ea60$3e52bb80@smithkim> I have been trying to record sound using Rev 1.1.1b but have not been able to get anything except static. I have the latest version of Quicktime installed. Have tried it on Windows ME and Win XP Pro OS's. Can you give me any clues of which codec, etc. that I should use? Also what filetype is produces using this command? Is it a QT movie? Thanks ====================== Mr. Kim L. Smith Humanities Research Center 3060 JKHB Brigham Young University Provo, UT 84602 Office: (801) 422-7426 Fax: (801) 422-0304 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From raney at metacard.com Thu Feb 7 13:36:00 2002 From: raney at metacard.com (Scott Raney) Date: Thu Feb 7 13:36:00 2002 Subject: Looks like HyperCard In-Reply-To: <200202071619.LAA29953@www.runrev.com> Message-ID: On Thu, 07 Feb 2002 Troy Rollins wrote: > Jeanne A. E. DeVoto wrote: > > > Well, that's not exactly true. ;-) > > > > It's a useful mode for testing before you build your actual > > standalone...but it's pretty much the same thing you get with "Suspend > > Revolution UI" in the Development menu. > > Well, OK. For me alone, applications which are meant to have a UI, but > don't, have little value. I must be missing some secret "developer only" > value to this "feature". ;) What you seem to be missing is that stacks *are* applications. Not having them run as applications when you double click on them would be roughly equivalent to double clicking on most executables on your system starting up Codewarrior if you happened to have that installed (i.e., just because it was produced with that tool doesn't make it a "document" of that tool). And of course anyone that uses MetaCard to build custom utilties for themselves or their companies will be very disappointed to have the whole development environment start up each time they ran one of these tools. Nevertheless, a way open the development environment together with the stack (probably by holding down the control key when double-clicking or something) is planned for a future release. Regards, Scott > -- > Troy > RPSystems > www.rpsystems.net ******************************************************** Scott Raney raney at metacard.com http://www.metacard.com MetaCard: You know, there's an easier way to do that... From terry at discovery.nl Thu Feb 7 14:33:01 2002 From: terry at discovery.nl (Terry Vogelaar) Date: Thu Feb 7 14:33:01 2002 Subject: Looks like HyperCard In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Troy Rollins wrote: >> This has come up several times in this group. The gist is this - >> double-clicking a stack opens it, sans the Rev UI. Open the stack in Rev, or >> create a stand-alone, and all is well. Basically, double-clicking a stack >> which is not a stand-alone, opens it in Rev in some strange way that no one >> actually wants to do. ;) Jeanne replied: > Well, that's not exactly true. ;-) > > It's a useful mode for testing before you build your actual > standalone...but it's pretty much the same thing you get with "Suspend > Revolution UI" in the Development menu. I thought Troy was right, but Jeanne is the only known exception, so he wasn't speaking the truth, because he said "no one" actually want it. ;-) I think doubleclicking a stack should start up the Rev UI as well. When someone wants to test, he/she can use the Suspend UI command. Terry From terry at discovery.nl Thu Feb 7 14:41:01 2002 From: terry at discovery.nl (Terry Vogelaar) Date: Thu Feb 7 14:41:01 2002 Subject: AppleScript functions made easy In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Sorry, there was a bug in the function I mailed this morning when only 2 parameters are used. Here is the improved version: function AppleScriptFunction aFun, aFile put "set theScript to load script (alias ""e&aFile"e&")"&return& \ "tell theScript to "&aFun&"(" into ASfunc if paramcount() > 2 then repeat with e = 3 to paramcount() put param(e) into f if param(e) is a number then put f & "," after ASfunc else put quote & f & quote & "," after ASfunc end if end repeat put ")" into last char of ASfunc else put ")" after ASfunc end if do ASfunc as applescript end AppleScriptFunction Terry From iansummerfield at btconnect.com Thu Feb 7 15:51:01 2002 From: iansummerfield at btconnect.com (Ian Summerfield) Date: Thu Feb 7 15:51:01 2002 Subject: Bug in Creating Distribution In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Yes I am, is there any other version that would work under OS X? OS X is now the only thing that will open the files I've created, I can't then create a distribution version. So I've just about lost my work? The stack is on the URL to try: http://homepage.mac.com/macabilityuk/FileSharing1.html It's for Mac OS 9 really, I just choose to use OS X to do the development work. It'll work under OS X too, and it demonstrates a "feature" of using answer file of type "APPL" that doesn't permit applications being chosen if they are OS X native (e.g. "Preview"). Try opening it in OS 9. Maybe someone could build me the final PowerPC using a PC?! -i- On 7/2/02 3:20 pm, "Kevin Miller" scribed: > On 5/2/02 8:19 am, Dan Shafer wrote: > >> Creating a distribution for OS X in OS X. As the standalone gets >> created and a confirm dialog shows up, I get an error: > > You don't appear to be using 1.1.1B1? > > Kevin > > Kevin Miller > Runtime Revolution Limited - Power to the Developer! > Tel: +44 (0) 870 747 1165. Fax: +44 (0)1639 830 707. > > _______________________________________________ > use-revolution mailing list > use-revolution at lists.runrev.com > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution From drvaughan55 at mac.com Thu Feb 7 16:54:00 2002 From: drvaughan55 at mac.com (David Vaughan) Date: Thu Feb 7 16:54:00 2002 Subject: Encrypt/decrypt In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Friday, February 8, 2002, at 02:41 , Kevin Miller wrote: > On 5/2/02 10:39 am, David Vaughan wrote: > >> I thought I recalled seeing mention of encryption within Rev in a >> previous thread but a content search of the messages I have saved found >> nothing. How can you encrypt and decrypt data within Rev? Is there an >> intrinsic function (which I have not yet found) or do I resort to >> Applescript? This is no longer a stopper for what I am doing but I >> would >> like to know the answer. > > You can encrypt stacks using the password feature in Distribution > Builder > which will stop access to the scripts or access to any of the strings > in the > stack using a text editor. You can however view objects and > properties, but > not scripts using the UI. Thus some users have stored password > protected > information in scripts. Yes, it is enryption of certain data that I was after rather than stack protection. > You could also write your own custom encryption / > decryption routine. I can probably create something sufficient for what I need. I just wondered if there were an existing function or library. Not to worry. > Kind regards, > > Kevin > > Kevin Miller > Runtime Revolution Limited - Power to the Developer! > Tel: +44 (0) 870 747 1165. Fax: +44 (0)1639 830 707. > > _______________________________________________ > use-revolution mailing list > use-revolution at lists.runrev.com > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution > From Doug_Ivers at lord.com Thu Feb 7 17:16:01 2002 From: Doug_Ivers at lord.com (Ivers, Doug E) Date: Thu Feb 7 17:16:01 2002 Subject: getting paid Message-ID: <6150F6099DBED111852E0008C7241464049B3625@NTSRV-CRD04> I'm still in a learning mode, but in the not too distant future I want to write stacks and sell them online for a few bucks. What is a good strategy for locking out users who haven't paid the fee? This goes beyond password-protecting scripts. It involves setting up a registration code system so that each user ends up with a different unlocking code. While the stack can be downloaded by anyone, it won't run without the code. In some cases, I may allow free access for a period of time, and then the code is required for further use. I've never done this in any programming language. Any advice? -- D From ncollins at hih.com.au Thu Feb 7 17:35:01 2002 From: ncollins at hih.com.au (ncollins at hih.com.au) Date: Thu Feb 7 17:35:01 2002 Subject: getting paid Message-ID: Have a look at this article if you haven't seen it already: http://www.ambrosiasw.com/cgi-bin/ubb/newsdisplay.cgi?action=topics&number=14&article=000052 (More about philosophy than actual code however) -- Neal From benr_mc at cogapp.com Thu Feb 7 19:00:12 2002 From: benr_mc at cogapp.com (Ben Rubinstein) Date: Thu Feb 7 19:00:12 2002 Subject: REALbasic (was Re: Pocket PC) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: on 4/2/02 9:13 PM, Lorin Rivers at lrivers at realsoftware.com wrote: > REALbasic's Windows support improves with every release. We rarely > get complaints about it any more. Lorin, I don't want to start a flame war either, but is it possible that this is because people have given up on it - either switched to another system altogether, or using RB for Mac development only? I was very keen on RB when it first came out; and proudly demoed to colleagues some simple apps which were cross-platform. When I first tried to use it seriously to create some simple utilities that had to run on Windows support I had horrible problems; I got involved with Revolution when I needed to develop a more serious app on which Windows support was critical. The last thing I did with RB, about seven months ago, was a tool that needed to extract some data via HTTP, format and print it various ways. Having just started with Rev, I was undecided what to use; Rev had built-in support for HTTP, but the printing model on RB is superior to that in Rev - also I had more experience with RB. I quickly found an HTTP module I could use, and built the app in RB; on the Mac it did (and does) an excellent job. When I tried to move it to Windows I had no luck. Going through that painful debugging process of making changes on a Mac, recompiling for Windows, moving over to Windows and testing, revealed that there were at least three separate problems - the HTTP code was getting unexpected results, the command to raise a print dialog simply did nothing, and the printing had another problem (my memory grows dim as to the exact details). This was using version 2.1.2 - at that point 3.1 had just been released. So I downloaded the demo of that, and found that the situation on Windows was even worse (again, apologies, I don't have the exact details to hand - I think I posted them to newsgroup at the time, but didn't get any help). As a side effect, when the demo expired it wiped my license for 2.1.2, so that was then running in demo mode. I resolved to upgrade RB anyway (company money, not personal) just so that I'd have it on the shelf; but then 3.5 was in testing, so I thought I might as well wait for that and not have to get another set of printed manuals. I've simply not got round to it, because I've been doing everything in Revolution. RealBasic is an excellent product; there are some aspects of it which I prefer to Revolution. But at this point I wouldn't bother opening it for anything that I wasn't convinced would be Mac-only. I'm not posting complaints about RB's Windows support - but that just means that I'm not even making the effort any more. Ben Rubinstein | Email: benr_mc at cogapp.com Cognitive Applications Ltd | Phone: +44 (0)1273-821600 http://www.cogapp.com | Fax : +44 (0)1273-728866 From pixelbird at interisland.net Thu Feb 7 20:46:01 2002 From: pixelbird at interisland.net (pixelbird at interisland.net) Date: Thu Feb 7 20:46:01 2002 Subject: Rotatable fields? Message-ID: <20020208014434406.AAA4048@sanjuan.interisland.net@orcas.interisland.net> Howard wrote: > Believe me, being able to rotate buttons or fields and have the labels > and text rotate would be very useful. And at this point, I'd be happy > with simply 90 degree rotational increments. :-) ---------- OK. Another solution might be to use icons. Draw text and rotate it in the icon editor. I do this to switch custom arrows and other such things. Quick, easy. HTH, Ken N. --------------------------------------------- The Computer Place Info = info at interisland.net http://www.compplace.com/ From kray at sonsothunder.com Thu Feb 7 22:08:01 2002 From: kray at sonsothunder.com (Ken Ray) Date: Thu Feb 7 22:08:01 2002 Subject: Rotatable fields? References: <20020208014434406.AAA4048@sanjuan.interisland.net@orcas.interisland.net> Message-ID: <003a01c1b04d$29fe0c10$cb0e48a6@mckinley.dom> Try this: It takes a snapshot of a field on the card, makes an image out of it and rotates it: on mouseUp import snapshot from rect (the rect of fld 1) of window (the windowID of this stack) put the short id of the last image of this cd into tID select image id tID rotate image id tID by 90 choose browse tool end mouseUp You can then hide the original field and move the new image into place. One note is that the bounding rectangle of the resulting image is as tall as it is wide due to the rotation. Ken Ray Sons of Thunder Software Email: kray at sonsothunder.com Web Site: http://www.sonsothunder.com/ ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Thursday, February 07, 2002 7:44 PM Subject: Re: Rotatable fields? > Howard wrote: > > > Believe me, being able to rotate buttons or fields and > have the labels > > and text rotate would be very useful. And at this point, > I'd be happy > > with simply 90 degree rotational increments. :-) > ---------- > OK. Another solution might be to use icons. Draw text > and rotate it in the icon editor. I do this to switch custom > arrows and other such things. Quick, easy. > > HTH, > Ken N. > > > > > > > > --------------------------------------------- > The Computer Place > Info = info at interisland.net > http://www.compplace.com/ > > > _______________________________________________ > use-revolution mailing list > use-revolution at lists.runrev.com > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution > From jrvalent at facstaff.wisc.edu Thu Feb 7 22:55:01 2002 From: jrvalent at facstaff.wisc.edu (Rand Valentine) Date: Thu Feb 7 22:55:01 2002 Subject: getting directory lists Message-ID: <000001c1b053$df6e5a90$bf1e6d40@RandInspiron8100> I need to be able to read the contents of the default folder, that is, read a directory list of its contents into a variable. By this I mean I want to build a little system for my students that has three folders within the default folder, along with a standalone runrev application. Then I want to be able to somehow read the contents of the folders (that is, the filenames and folder names within the folders) so that I can then read the contents of those files and folders into my runrev application. That way I don't have to hardwire all of the filenames, etc, but can dynamically determine what they are. Rinaldi had externals for this sort of thing in HyperCard, as I recall. Thanks. rand valentine university of wisconsin-madison From terry at discovery.nl Thu Feb 7 23:19:01 2002 From: terry at discovery.nl (Terry Vogelaar) Date: Thu Feb 7 23:19:01 2002 Subject: getting directory lists In-Reply-To: <000001c1b053$df6e5a90$bf1e6d40@RandInspiron8100> Message-ID: > I need to be able to read the contents of the default folder, that is, > read a directory list of its contents into a variable. By this I mean I > want to build a little system for my students that has three folders > within the default folder, along with a standalone runrev application. > Then I want to be able to somehow read the contents of the folders (that > is, the filenames and folder names within the folders) so that I can > then read the contents of those files and folders into my runrev > application. That way I don't have to hardwire all of the filenames, > etc, but can dynamically determine what they are. Rinaldi had externals > for this sort of thing in HyperCard, as I recall. Thanks. Look in the transcript dictionary for the functions "folders" and "files". That should be exactly what you are looking for. Besides that, Rinaldi's great GetDir should work as well. But mind that the path in GetDir should be with colons instead of RR-standard slashes. (Well, that is when you work with Mac OS Classic; I don't have a clue what will happen with GetDir on Mac OS X) Terry From johng at cablespeed.com Fri Feb 8 00:05:01 2002 From: johng at cablespeed.com (John) Date: Fri Feb 8 00:05:01 2002 Subject: insertion point In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <2092404C-1C51-11D6-AC23-003065847600@cablespeed.com> On Thursday, February 7, 2002, at 07:13 AM, Kevin Miller wrote: > On 6/2/02 11:44 am, Pierre Delain wrote: > >> When I click into some of my unlocked fields to edit text, the >> insertion >> point (I mean the vertical bar used to select text) does not appear, >> although text is editable. This happens for some of my fields, not all >> of >> them (I don't understand why, since they are exactly the same). >> How can I have it back? > > Do you have objects over the fields? > I had this difficulty also with 1.1.1B1 on OSX. Although I am sure (positive as a matter of fact) I did not place an image over the entire surface of the card, one was there. Deleting it fixed the problem. Question is, how did the image get there? Also, clicking on the field selected the field and not the image that was over it (I assume it was over it). Clicking on the card selected the image so I could delete it. John Miskimins From tim11 at bellatlantic.net Fri Feb 8 01:28:00 2002 From: tim11 at bellatlantic.net (Tim) Date: Fri Feb 8 01:28:00 2002 Subject: More hierarchical menu problems Message-ID: Hi, I have a button menu with 3 items and two of those items contain 2 sub-items each. The script is fairly straightfoward: On menuPick switch tChosen case "item1" statements break case "item2" statements break case "item3" statements break case "sub-item1a" statements break case "sub-item1b" statements break case "sub-item2a" statements break case "sub-item2b" statements break end switch end menuPick When I select any sub-items I get statements executed as though I selected some other items. The hierarchical menu is configured with returns and tabs and looks OK. Could this be a bug? -- Tim From shaosean at unitz.ca Fri Feb 8 01:32:00 2002 From: shaosean at unitz.ca (Shao Sean) Date: Fri Feb 8 01:32:00 2002 Subject: More hierarchical menu problems References: Message-ID: <002801c1b06a$180ece50$88b15bd1@dreamlanpc> it returns the menu item and the sub item.. example: File New > Folder /N File would return New|Folder (check the actual delimiter though).. you would just need to change the delimiter and grab the required item From scott at tactilemedia.com Fri Feb 8 01:33:01 2002 From: scott at tactilemedia.com (Scott Rossi) Date: Fri Feb 8 01:33:01 2002 Subject: More hierarchical menu problems In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Recently, Tim wrote: > I have a button menu with 3 items and two of those items contain 2 sub-items > each. The script is fairly straightfoward: > > On menuPick > switch tChosen > case "item1" > statements > break > case "item2" > statements > break > case "item3" > statements > break > case "sub-item1a" > statements > break > case "sub-item1b" > statements > break > case "sub-item2a" > statements > break > case "sub-item2b" > statements > break > end switch > end menuPick > > When I select any sub-items I get statements executed as though I selected > some other items. The hierarchical menu is configured with returns and tabs > and looks OK. Could this be a bug? Try adding the statement you want to switch: on menuPick tChosen ^^^^^^^ Regards, Scott Rossi Creative Director Tactile Media, Multimedia & Design Email: scott at tactilemedia.com Web: www.tactilemedia.com From yvescoppe at skynet.be Fri Feb 8 01:45:00 2002 From: yvescoppe at skynet.be (yves COPPE) Date: Fri Feb 8 01:45:00 2002 Subject: More hierarchical menu problems In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: >Hi, > >I have a button menu with 3 items and two of those items contain 2 sub-items >each. The script is fairly straightfoward: > >On menuPick >switch tChosen > case "item1" > statements > break > case "item2" > statements > break > case "item3" > statements > break > case "sub-item1a" > statements > break > case "sub-item1b" > statements > break >case "sub-item2a" > statements > break >case "sub-item2b" > statements > break > end switch >end menuPick > >When I select any sub-items I get statements executed as though I selected >some other items. The hierarchical menu is configured with returns and tabs >and looks OK. Could this be a bug? >-- >Tim > > When you select a subitem, you must write : case "Item x|subitem ax" statements break case "Item x|subitem bx" statements break The parent menu must be written followed by "|" and the subitem menu Good luck. -- Salutations. Yves et Fran?oise COPPE Email : yvescoppe at skynet.be From tim11 at bellatlantic.net Fri Feb 8 02:12:01 2002 From: tim11 at bellatlantic.net (Tim) Date: Fri Feb 8 02:12:01 2002 Subject: More hierarchical menu problems In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On 2/8/02 1:43 AM, "yves COPPE" wrote: >> Hi, >> >> I have a button menu with 3 items and two of those items contain 2 sub-items >> each. The script is fairly straightfoward: >> >> On menuPick >> switch tChosen >> case "item1" >> statements >> break >> case "item2" >> statements >> break >> case "item3" >> statements >> break >> case "sub-item1a" >> statements >> break >> case "sub-item1b" >> statements >> break >> case "sub-item2a" >> statements >> break >> case "sub-item2b" >> statements >> break >> end switch >> end menuPick >> >> When I select any sub-items I get statements executed as though I selected >> some other items. The hierarchical menu is configured with returns and tabs >> and looks OK. Could this be a bug? >> -- >> Tim >> >> > > > > When you select a subitem, you must write : > > case "Item x|subitem ax" > statements > break > case "Item x|subitem bx" > statements > break > > The parent menu must be written followed by "|" and the subitem menu > > Good luck. Thanks to all. A combination of chant, secret handshakes, and code correction fixed the problem. -- Tim From tim11 at bellatlantic.net Fri Feb 8 02:17:01 2002 From: tim11 at bellatlantic.net (Tim) Date: Fri Feb 8 02:17:01 2002 Subject: TopStack question Message-ID: All right, one more question... Get the topStack Put word 2 of it Yields "/HD/Somefolder/someFile.rev Shouldn't it be the name of the topmost stack instead of the (") char? I tried it on more than one Rev project and it always does this if the main stack is topmost. Any ideas? Rev beta OS X version. TIA, -- Tim From pixelbird at interisland.net Fri Feb 8 02:40:01 2002 From: pixelbird at interisland.net (Ken Norris) Date: Fri Feb 8 02:40:01 2002 Subject: Rotatable fields? In-Reply-To: <000f01c1afc2$6a6d9fd0$88b15bd1@dreamlanpc> Message-ID: on 2/7/02 2:30 AM, Shao Sean at shaosean at unitz.ca wrote: >> Yeah, sure, I mean text with the draw tools. > how does one "draw" text (not using fields, labels, etc).. i'm trying to > find something that works like the REALbasic graphic object so I mix and > match text and images with greater control then using a field does.. ---------- Well, guess what? I forgot Rev has no text tool, although I have no idea why this is so. Because they seem so basic, I probably won't use Rev's paint tools for much beyond overall size and position ideas, maybe simple animation. I'll create the 'real' detailed graphics in software designed for the purpose. You can draw text in just about any paint program: Photoshop, corelDRAW, etc., including HyperCard's Color Tools. Rotate it, flip it, filter it, scale it, color it, mix and match with your other pictures, whatever you like, and import it to RR as a .gif or .jpg. I assume you can't have it as a scriptable graphic 'object' that way, though. Let's ask: Can you import a .gif image and place it in a graphic object? Or in a button icon? Best regards, Ken N. From shaosean at unitz.ca Fri Feb 8 03:06:01 2002 From: shaosean at unitz.ca (Shao Sean) Date: Fri Feb 8 03:06:01 2002 Subject: Rotatable fields? References: Message-ID: <000f01c1b077$247c5790$88b15bd1@dreamlanpc> > Well, guess what? I forgot Rev has no text tool, although I have no idea why mm.. this royally bites.. i guess i'll have to come up with something to do what should be built-in.. wish me luck ;-) > You can draw text in just about any paint program: Photoshop, corelDRAW, yeah, the only thing is the data is to be created on the fly.. there is no preset data, there is no concept of what the data could be (other than text and images.. the actual content is unknown).. > Can you import a .gif image and place it in a graphic object? Or in a button > icon? i believe you can for both.. if you are asking if that is good for my needs, see above.. From jeanne at runrev.com Fri Feb 8 03:10:01 2002 From: jeanne at runrev.com (Jeanne A. E. DeVoto) Date: Fri Feb 8 03:10:01 2002 Subject: Looks like HyperCard In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: At 11:30 AM -0800 2/7/2002, Terry Vogelaar wrote: >I thought Troy was right, but Jeanne is the only known exception, so he >wasn't speaking the truth, because he said "no one" actually want it. ;-) > >I think doubleclicking a stack should start up the Rev UI as well. When >someone wants to test, he/she can use the Suspend UI command. Well, I tend to agree with this myself, if only because a stack under development is a document that belongs to Rev, and double-clicking the document is the usual way you start up an application to work on that doc. (And there's no way to load the development environment after the fact without quitting and restarting, then re-opening the stack you're working on.) I think this capability is planned for a future release of the engine. My point was just that there *is* a use for it. ;-) -- Jeanne A. E. DeVoto ~ jeanne at runrev.com http://www.runrev.com/ Runtime Revolution Limited - Power to the Developer! From jeanne at runrev.com Fri Feb 8 03:10:05 2002 From: jeanne at runrev.com (Jeanne A. E. DeVoto) Date: Fri Feb 8 03:10:05 2002 Subject: Rotatable fields? In-Reply-To: References: <000f01c1afc2$6a6d9fd0$88b15bd1@dreamlanpc> Message-ID: At 11:49 PM -0800 2/7/2002, Ken Norris wrote: >Can you import a .gif image and place it in a graphic object? Not in a graphic, but in an image. (See the import command and filename property, and also the Import As Control and New Referenced Control items in the File menu - respectively, these import a file and create an image from it, or display the contents of a file in an image.) >Or in a button icon? Button icons are image IDs, so yes, once you have an image object in Rev it can be displayed as a button icon. -- Jeanne A. E. DeVoto ~ jeanne at runrev.com http://www.runrev.com/ Runtime Revolution Limited - Power to the Developer! From dave at blackrockmac.com Fri Feb 8 03:51:01 2002 From: dave at blackrockmac.com (Dave Meilstrup) Date: Fri Feb 8 03:51:01 2002 Subject: Looks like HyperCard In-Reply-To: Message-ID: I am not clear that my original question was answered. Simply, when I double-click on a stack, any stack, with the Rev UI not previously running, the stack opens looking like an old HyperCard stack. If I open it while the Rev UI is running, it displays the correct Appearance Manager look. This happens whether or not I have an appearance manager call in the stack. Somehow this does not seem right to me. I'm running MacOS 9.2.2. Dave Meilstrup > From: Terry Vogelaar > Reply-To: use-revolution at lists.runrev.com > Date: Thu, 07 Feb 2002 20:30:53 +0100 > To: > Subject: Re: Looks like HyperCard > > Troy Rollins wrote: >>> This has come up several times in this group. The gist is this - >>> double-clicking a stack opens it, sans the Rev UI. Open the stack in Rev, or >>> create a stand-alone, and all is well. Basically, double-clicking a stack >>> which is not a stand-alone, opens it in Rev in some strange way that no one >>> actually wants to do. ;) > > Jeanne replied: >> Well, that's not exactly true. ;-) >> >> It's a useful mode for testing before you build your actual >> standalone...but it's pretty much the same thing you get with "Suspend >> Revolution UI" in the Development menu. > > I thought Troy was right, but Jeanne is the only known exception, so he > wasn't speaking the truth, because he said "no one" actually want it. ;-) > > I think doubleclicking a stack should start up the Rev UI as well. When > someone wants to test, he/she can use the Suspend UI command. > > Terry > > > _______________________________________________ > use-revolution mailing list > use-revolution at lists.runrev.com > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution From pixelbird at interisland.net Fri Feb 8 04:41:00 2002 From: pixelbird at interisland.net (Ken Norris (dialup)) Date: Fri Feb 8 04:41:00 2002 Subject: Rotatable fields? In-Reply-To: <000f01c1b077$247c5790$88b15bd1@dreamlanpc> Message-ID: on 2/8/02 12:03 AM, Shao Sean at shaosean at unitz.ca wrote: > yeah, the only thing is the data is to be created on the fly.. there is no > preset data, there is no concept of what the data could be (other than text > and images.. the actual content is unknown).. ---------- Hi Shao. I guess I don't understand what you want to do. What do you mean by 'on the fly'? Do you mean you want to watch the text rotate on the screen (you could animate that)? Or do you mean you want the USER to type sideways (I don't think that can happen)? What I just did was: went into Photoshop, opened a new file, chose a large text font (Comic Sans Bold 36 pt), chose an aqua blue color, typed the word "Fish", rotated it 90 degrees, chose a fish distortion filter, flattened it, and saved it as a .gif. Then I reopened Rev to my stack, imported the .gif image file to the card. Took all of about 3 or 4 minutes. Now I can script the thing like any other object. I can't think of anything easier. I could've done it with a retouched photo with text applied sideways, or anything else you can do in Photoshop. I didn't do it, but I could have imported, scaled, and /or positioned it (with the rect command of course) under script control. Best regards, Ken N. From jeanne at runrev.com Fri Feb 8 04:42:01 2002 From: jeanne at runrev.com (Jeanne A. E. DeVoto) Date: Fri Feb 8 04:42:01 2002 Subject: Looks like HyperCard In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: At 9:50 PM -0800 2/7/2002, Dave Meilstrup wrote: >I am not clear that my original question was answered. Simply, when I >double-click on a stack, any stack, with the Rev UI not previously running, >the stack opens looking like an old HyperCard stack. Dave, did you check the Troubleshooting question I suggested? It does sound to me as though at least part of what you describe is due to Rev's default colors and fonts not being applied when you run the stack without the Revolution UI. If this doesn't seem to help, perhaps you could send me a copy of the stack and/or a screenshot, off-list? -- Jeanne A. E. DeVoto ~ jeanne at runrev.com http://www.runrev.com/ Runtime Revolution Limited - Power to the Developer! From pixelbird at interisland.net Fri Feb 8 05:01:02 2002 From: pixelbird at interisland.net (Ken Norris (dialup)) Date: Fri Feb 8 05:01:02 2002 Subject: Rotatable fields? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: on 2/8/02 12:07 AM, Jeanne A. E. DeVoto at jeanne at runrev.com wrote: > Button icons are image IDs, so yes, once you have an image object in Rev it > can be displayed as a button icon. ----------- I figured that. I can find precious little about button icons. Where might this info be? What I want to do is make a button icon from an image (I have the ID number). Thanks, Ken N. From pixelbird at interisland.net Fri Feb 8 05:12:01 2002 From: pixelbird at interisland.net (Ken Norris (dialup)) Date: Fri Feb 8 05:12:01 2002 Subject: Video clips In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Hello folks, How do I import a video clip? Is it a QT file? One of my goals is to improve training media for long term health care. HyperCard has an XCMD that allows lots of onscreen control of QT objects. Does Rev have such a thing? Thanks, Ken N. From kmajor at metascape.org Fri Feb 8 05:12:08 2002 From: kmajor at metascape.org (Klaus Major) Date: Fri Feb 8 05:12:08 2002 Subject: Rotatable fields? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <13B86A72-1C7C-11D6-B9CA-003065D52E8E@metascape.org> Hi Ken, > on 2/8/02 12:07 AM, Jeanne A. E. DeVoto at jeanne at runrev.com wrote: > >> Button icons are image IDs, so yes, once you have an image object in >> Rev it >> can be displayed as a button icon. > ----------- > I figured that. I can find precious little about button icons. Where > might > this info be? What I want to do is make a button icon from an image (I > have > the ID number). > > Thanks, > Ken N. nothing could be simpler :-) Import your image, that you want to display in a button. Remember its ID. Now you can even hide that image. Set the icon-property of your button to that ID. Manually or with a script. ... set the icon of btn xxx to yyy ... That's it. Maybe this is in fact a bit confusing, because the icons we can use in buttons , are already imported images actually. icons = images They are just displayed in another way... Hope this helps. Regards Klaus Major kmajor at metascape.org From laya at inrets.fr Fri Feb 8 07:51:01 2002 From: laya at inrets.fr (Olivier Laya) Date: Fri Feb 8 07:51:01 2002 Subject: Video clips In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: >Hello folks, > >How do I import a video clip? Is it a QT file? One of my goals is to improve >training media for long term health care. HyperCard has an XCMD that allows >lots of onscreen control of QT objects. Does Rev have such a thing? > >Thanks, >Ken N. > >_______________________________________________ >use-revolution mailing list >use-revolution at lists.runrev.com >http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution Hello Ken, I'm an old HC user , with QT too, and now I use Quicktime in a RR app like that : create a player on the card,-- recall his id 'nnnn' create a button with this script on mouseup global film_name put "Select a file, Please " into myprompt -- with filter '.mov' if useful answer file myPrompt set the filename of player id nnnn to it put the filename of player id nnnn into film_name -- so I can use it for more things set the rectangle of player id nnnn to xmin,ymin,xmax,ymax end mouseup so you can hold QuickTime movies and use directly the player, or make other buttons to do actions and also click on the film to do more sophisticated actions (record times, image number , etc.), and more. Hope this helps. Olivier -- Olivier Laya Charg? de Recherche Laboratoire de Psychologie de la Conduite (L.P.C.) Institut National de Recherche sur les Transports et leur S?curit? (I.N.R.E.T.S.) 2, Av. du G?n?ral Malleret-Joinville 94114 ARCUEIL C?dex T?l: 01 47 40 73 79 Fax : 01 45 47 56 06 Phone (international): +33 1 47 40 73 79 Web site: http://www.inrets.fr Bienvenue! Welcome! From webmaster at studioalice.se Fri Feb 8 08:04:01 2002 From: webmaster at studioalice.se (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Magnus_von_Br=F6msen?=) Date: Fri Feb 8 08:04:01 2002 Subject: Printing a tabstop fld In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Does anybody have a work-around for this minor problem? (or, Kevin, is beta 2 far away?) I have 5 tabstops in a scrolling field, and need to have that printed. Magnus On Monday, February 4, 2002, at 12:23 PM, Kevin Miller wrote: > On 3/2/02 8:49 pm, yves COPPE wrote: > >> revPrintField the name of field "xxx" >> >> I have as result, on the printed paper, columns but they are tabbed >> as if default width should exist, all the same width for each column. >> So the text which exceeds this "default" tabstop makes that the >> column isn't aligned although it is on screen >> What happens ? > > We'll look into this for b2. > > Kevin > > Kevin Miller > Runtime Revolution Limited - Power to the Developer! > Tel: +44 (0) 870 747 1165. Fax: +44 (0)1639 830 707. > > _______________________________________________ > use-revolution mailing list > use-revolution at lists.runrev.com > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution > From sjoerdoptland at mac.com Fri Feb 8 09:43:01 2002 From: sjoerdoptland at mac.com (Sjoerd Op 't Land) Date: Fri Feb 8 09:43:01 2002 Subject: Number or not? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Terry Vogelaar wrote/ schreef: > Hello all, > > Simple question: is there a way to verify if a variable is a number? > AppleScript makes a difference between 2 and "2", but it also does not > accept string-parameters without quotes. So I want to put quotes around a > parameter only when it is not a number. Any suggestions? Try this one (untested): function formatVar vContents if isNumber(vContents) then return vContents else return quote & vContents & quote end formatVar > Terry Regards, / Groeten, Sjoerd From terry at discovery.nl Fri Feb 8 09:53:01 2002 From: terry at discovery.nl (Terry Vogelaar) Date: Fri Feb 8 09:53:01 2002 Subject: My Bold Script is slow Message-ID: > Well, my bold Script is really slow, and I would appreciate any input > for making it faster. Concrete are the loops at the bottom the problem, > but I don't know an other way to change the bold, but leave other styles > alone, as the forever-be-damned-and-burn-in-hell "textstyle" property is > set to the uglier-as-my-dogs-ass "mixed" state. > > here it comes, please be aware, that any brain injures caused by this > script are the brain owners problem: > > on mouseUp > repeat with myChar = the second word of the selectedChunk to the > fourth word of the selectedChunk > put the textStyle of char myChar of field "text" into myRepeat > replace myStyle & "," with "" in myRepeat > replace myStyle with "" in myRepeat > set the textstyle of char myChar of field "text" to myRepeat > end repeat > end mouseUp > > note: > I tried the "for each char" loop, but it was not applicable the way i > used it. (it provided always the character, but no number or other > location possibility) > for better reading copy to a button and tab on each line. > for use set the traversalon to false > > hope you find something faster... Hello Bj?rnke, It took a while before I knew how to handle this, but the resulting script is fast and simple. As far as I know, it only works with fields, not with selections. I hope you don't mind. If it is important, maybe you can make a workaround by copying the selection in an empty field first. on mouseUp put the htmltext of fld 1 into var1 replace "" with "" in var1 replace "" with "" in var1 set the htmltext of fld 1 to var1 end mouseUp Terry From gfraser43 at hotmail.com Fri Feb 8 11:13:00 2002 From: gfraser43 at hotmail.com (Gordon Fraser) Date: Fri Feb 8 11:13:00 2002 Subject: AppleScripts Message-ID: Hi I see that I can do AppleScripts in Revolution. I'm looking for a guide to basic AppleScript syntax for moving and copying files and folders. Anyone know where I can find this? Thanks G _________________________________________________________________ Chat with friends online, try MSN Messenger: http://messenger.msn.com From JohnRule at aol.com Fri Feb 8 12:15:01 2002 From: JohnRule at aol.com (JohnRule at aol.com) Date: Fri Feb 8 12:15:01 2002 Subject: (no subject) Message-ID: <51.18bfb8dd.299560f1@aol.com> << I think doubleclicking a stack should start up the Rev UI as well. When << someone wants to test, he/she can use the Suspend UI command. << Terry I would have second this motion...a double-clicked stack is unusable (too many 'things' missing). JR From laya at inrets.fr Fri Feb 8 12:15:35 2002 From: laya at inrets.fr (Olivier Laya) Date: Fri Feb 8 12:15:35 2002 Subject: AppleScripts In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: >Hi > >I see that I can do AppleScripts in Revolution. I'm looking for a >guide to basic AppleScript syntax for moving and copying files and >folders. Anyone know where I can find this? > >Thanks > >G > >_________________________________________________________________ >Chat with friends online, try MSN Messenger: http://messenger.msn.com > >_______________________________________________ >use-revolution mailing list >use-revolution at lists.runrev.com >http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution Hi, I have find 'AppleScriptlangageguide .PDF' on this site : ,few months ago. I hope it's always there. Olivier -- Olivier Laya Charg? de Recherche Laboratoire de Psychologie de la Conduite (L.P.C.) Institut National de Recherche sur les Transports et leur S?curit? (I.N.R.E.T.S.) 2, Av. du G?n?ral Malleret-Joinville 94114 ARCUEIL C?dex T?l: 01 47 40 73 79 Fax : 01 45 47 56 06 Phone (international): +33 1 47 40 73 79 Web site: http://www.inrets.fr Bienvenue! Welcome! -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From pixelbird at interisland.net Fri Feb 8 12:50:01 2002 From: pixelbird at interisland.net (Ken Norris (dialup)) Date: Fri Feb 8 12:50:01 2002 Subject: Rotatable fields? In-Reply-To: <13B86A72-1C7C-11D6-B9CA-003065D52E8E@metascape.org> Message-ID: on 2/8/02 2:10 AM, Klaus Major at kmajor at metascape.org wrote: > set the icon of btn xxx to yyy ---------- Thanks, Klaus. I'll check it out. Certainly has possibilities. Can't wait to see what happens if I tie the cursor to the iconized button. Best regards, Ken N. From pixelbird at interisland.net Fri Feb 8 13:03:01 2002 From: pixelbird at interisland.net (Ken Norris (dialup)) Date: Fri Feb 8 13:03:01 2002 Subject: Video clips In-Reply-To: Message-ID: on 2/8/02 4:27 AM, Olivier Laya at laya at inrets.fr wrote: (snip) > so you can hold QuickTime movies and use directly the player, or make > other buttons to do actions and also click on the film to do more > sophisticated actions (record times, image number , etc.), and more. > Hope this helps. ---------- Thanks for the script. What I'm looking for are things like script control of sprite movement, zooming, hotspots, etc. I didn't run across any syntax for that stuff. Best regards, Ken N. From shaosean at unitz.ca Fri Feb 8 13:17:01 2002 From: shaosean at unitz.ca (Shao Sean) Date: Fri Feb 8 13:17:01 2002 Subject: Rotatable fields? References: Message-ID: <001901c1b0cc$6868cc40$88b15bd1@dreamlanpc> > Hi Shao. I guess I don't understand what you want to do. What do you mean by > 'on the fly'? Do you mean you want to watch the text rotate on the screen > (you could animate that)? Or do you mean you want the USER to type sideways > (I don't think that can happen)? none of the above ;-) the data content (images and text) will be created as required (much like this message) and will displayed to the user.. currently i have no use for rotated text, just the ability to have pixel-point control over text and images without having to resort to using tons of image/text objects, but it seems that's what i'm going to have to do.. From zelston at aol.com Fri Feb 8 13:28:01 2002 From: zelston at aol.com (Zac Elston) Date: Fri Feb 8 13:28:01 2002 Subject: How do I determine objects in a group? Message-ID: I need to make a group of graphics behave like radio buttons with only one possible selection active at a time. I can write the group script to tell the target, but how do I reset the other members of the group? Thanks -zac From devin_asay at byu.edu Fri Feb 8 13:43:00 2002 From: devin_asay at byu.edu (Devin Asay) Date: Fri Feb 8 13:43:00 2002 Subject: Transcript questions Message-ID: 1. getProp control structure - Other than for implementing virtual properties, why would this structure ever be used? I don't need to use it to access custom properties; I only have to refer to the custom property in a statement: put the essentialData of group "myGroup" into mydata Using a getProp structure seems like an unnecessary complication. 2. The open file command has an optional _for_ form (open file for update | read | write | append.) I think I understand what each form does, but what is the default? If I simply use "open file " does it open "for update" by default? -- Devin Asay Humanities Research Center Brigham Young University From kevin at runrev.com Fri Feb 8 13:52:01 2002 From: kevin at runrev.com (Kevin Miller) Date: Fri Feb 8 13:52:01 2002 Subject: How do I determine objects in a group? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On 8/2/02 6:24 pm, Zac Elston wrote: > I need to make a group of graphics behave like radio buttons with only one > possible selection active at a time. > > I can write the group script to tell the target, but how do I reset the > other members of the group? Set icons on the buttons. The tools palette in Rev is just a set of radio buttons, for example. set the hilitedButton of group 1 to 1 Kevin Kevin Miller Runtime Revolution Limited - Power to the Developer! Tel: +44 (0) 870 747 1165. Fax: +44 (0)1639 830 707. From kevin at runrev.com Fri Feb 8 13:52:33 2002 From: kevin at runrev.com (Kevin Miller) Date: Fri Feb 8 13:52:33 2002 Subject: Printing a tabstop fld In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On 8/2/02 12:59 pm, Magnus von Br?msen wrote: > Does anybody have a work-around for this minor problem? (or, Kevin, is > beta 2 far away?) > I have 5 tabstops in a scrolling field, and need to have that printed. You could work around it by patching the printing script (its a Revolution backScripts which can be found in the backScripts tab on the message box). Just make the script copy the tabStops. But we wil fix this in b2. Kevin Kevin Miller Runtime Revolution Limited - Power to the Developer! Tel: +44 (0) 870 747 1165. Fax: +44 (0)1639 830 707. From kevin at runrev.com Fri Feb 8 13:52:39 2002 From: kevin at runrev.com (Kevin Miller) Date: Fri Feb 8 13:52:39 2002 Subject: Bug in Creating Distribution In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On 7/2/02 8:43 pm, Ian Summerfield wrote: > Yes I am, is there any other version that would work under OS X? OS X is > now the only thing that will open the files I've created, I can't then > create a distribution version. So I've just about lost my work? The stack > is on the URL to try: > > http://homepage.mac.com/macabilityuk/FileSharing1.html > > It's for Mac OS 9 really, I just choose to use OS X to do the development > work. It'll work under OS X too, and it demonstrates a "feature" of using > answer file of type "APPL" that doesn't permit applications being chosen if > they are OS X native (e.g. "Preview"). Try opening it in OS 9. Maybe > someone could build me the final PowerPC using a PC?! 1.1.1B1 is in the Developer section of the site under "Latest Test Version". The type of error report you submitted indicates that you are using 1.1 not 1.1.1B1. 1.1.1B1 can build a PPC standalone on the OS X platform. 1.1.1B2 will also be able to build a PPC standalone on the OS 9 platform. Not ideal, but this is a workaround you can use now to your specific problem. Kind regards, Kevin Kevin Miller Runtime Revolution Limited - Power to the Developer! Tel: +44 (0) 870 747 1165. Fax: +44 (0)1639 830 707. From kevin at runrev.com Fri Feb 8 13:52:49 2002 From: kevin at runrev.com (Kevin Miller) Date: Fri Feb 8 13:52:49 2002 Subject: Record Sound on Windows machine In-Reply-To: <000501c1aff9$df77ea60$3e52bb80@smithkim> Message-ID: On 7/2/02 5:07 pm, Kim L. Smith wrote: > I have been trying to record sound using Rev 1.1.1b but have not been able to > get anything except static. I have the latest version of Quicktime installed. > Have tried it on Windows ME and Win XP Pro OS?s. Can you give me any clues of > which codec, etc. that I should use? Also what filetype is produces using this > command? Is it a QT movie? Thanks It is a QT movie, you can play it with a player object or the play videoClip command. (You cannot use the play audioClip command, it is a video file that is created.) Kevin Kevin Miller Runtime Revolution Limited - Power to the Developer! Tel: +44 (0) 870 747 1165. Fax: +44 (0)1639 830 707. From devin_asay at byu.edu Fri Feb 8 13:53:00 2002 From: devin_asay at byu.edu (Devin Asay) Date: Fri Feb 8 13:53:00 2002 Subject: How do I determine objects in a group? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: >I need to make a group of graphics behave like radio buttons with only one >possible selection active at a time. > >I can write the group script to tell the target, but how do I reset the >other members of the group? > >Thanks > >-zac Put the radio buttons in a group and make sure the group's radioBehavior property is set to true. This can be done by script or in the properties palette. Once this is set, the proper radio button behavior is automatic; i.e., only one radio button in the group can be hilited at a time. Devin -- Devin Asay Humanities Research Center Brigham Young University From mvivit at softcom.net Fri Feb 8 13:58:00 2002 From: mvivit at softcom.net (Mary Vivit) Date: Fri Feb 8 13:58:00 2002 Subject: Backwards compatibility References: Message-ID: <3C641EC3.4107A42@softcom.net> Good day... I have a project using a previous 1.0 beta version. If I move the project up to 1.1.1B1, can the data files be opened using a previous beta version of Revolution? Thanks! Mary Vivit mvivit at softcom.net From kevin at runrev.com Fri Feb 8 14:04:01 2002 From: kevin at runrev.com (Kevin Miller) Date: Fri Feb 8 14:04:01 2002 Subject: Backwards compatibility In-Reply-To: <3C641EC3.4107A42@softcom.net> Message-ID: On 8/2/02 6:53 pm, Mary Vivit wrote: > Good day... > > I have a project using a previous 1.0 beta version. If I move the > project up to 1.1.1B1, can the data files be opened using a previous > beta version of Revolution? Thanks! No - once you save in 1.1.1 format you can't go back. Sorry. Kevin Kevin Miller Runtime Revolution Limited - Power to the Developer! Tel: +44 (0) 870 747 1165. Fax: +44 (0)1639 830 707. From devin_asay at byu.edu Fri Feb 8 14:27:01 2002 From: devin_asay at byu.edu (Devin Asay) Date: Fri Feb 8 14:27:01 2002 Subject: How do I determine objects in a group? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: >>I need to make a group of graphics behave like radio buttons with only one >>possible selection active at a time. >> >>I can write the group script to tell the target, but how do I reset the >>other members of the group? >> >>Thanks >> >>-zac > >Put the radio buttons in a group and make sure the group's >radioBehavior property is set to true. This can be done by script >or in the properties palette. Once this is set, the proper radio >button behavior is automatic; i.e., only one radio button in the >group can be hilited at a time. Sorry, Zac, I didn't read your question closely enough. I'd follow Kevin's advice. ;-) -- Devin Asay Humanities Research Center Brigham Young University From mvivit at softcom.net Fri Feb 8 14:50:01 2002 From: mvivit at softcom.net (Mary Vivit) Date: Fri Feb 8 14:50:01 2002 Subject: Backwards compatibility References: Message-ID: <3C642AFE.24AC1FE6@softcom.net> Thanks, Kevin. I just wanted to make sure...BEFORE I did it. Mary Kevin Miller wrote: > > On 8/2/02 6:53 pm, Mary Vivit wrote: > > > Good day... > > > > I have a project using a previous 1.0 beta version. If I move the > > project up to 1.1.1B1, can the data files be opened using a previous > > beta version of Revolution? Thanks! > > No - once you save in 1.1.1 format you can't go back. Sorry. > > Kevin > > Kevin Miller > Runtime Revolution Limited - Power to the Developer! > Tel: +44 (0) 870 747 1165. Fax: +44 (0)1639 830 707. > > _______________________________________________ > use-revolution mailing list > use-revolution at lists.runrev.com > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution From pixelbird at interisland.net Fri Feb 8 14:53:00 2002 From: pixelbird at interisland.net (Ken Norris (dialup)) Date: Fri Feb 8 14:53:00 2002 Subject: Rotatable fields? In-Reply-To: <001901c1b0cc$6868cc40$88b15bd1@dreamlanpc> Message-ID: on 2/8/02 10:14 AM, Shao Sean at shaosean at unitz.ca wrote: > none of the above ;-) the data content (images and text) will be created as > required (much like this message) and will displayed to the user.. currently > i have no use for rotated text, just the ability to have pixel-point control > over text and images without having to resort to using tons of image/text > objects, but it seems that's what i'm going to have to do.. ---------- So your goal is to create and manipulate images and text in real time? Or online? That's a toughie. The only way I think you could do this would be like I said before. If you got adept enough at creating the text and images quickly in a paint program, you might be able to use an AppleScript to automate transferring them into the stack of your choice. HTH, Ken N. From kray at sonsothunder.com Fri Feb 8 15:27:01 2002 From: kray at sonsothunder.com (Ken Ray) Date: Fri Feb 8 15:27:01 2002 Subject: Transcript questions References: Message-ID: <00e301c1b0de$43618f60$7c00a8c0@mckinley.dom> Devin, The "getProp" control stucture is tremendously useful; it allows you to trap whenever a custom property has been set, and take action based on that. Suppse you wanted to take action based on the value of essentialData? For example, you wanted to run a handler called "DoIt" whenever essentialData was set with a value of "Hello". This is where 'getProp' is very useful: getProp essentialData pPropValue if pPropValue = "Hello" then DoIt end if pass essentialData -- so the value of essentialData can be updated end essentialData Ken Ray Sons of Thunder Software Email: kray at sonsothunder.com Web Site: http://www.sonsothunder.com/ ----- Original Message ----- From: "Devin Asay" To: Sent: Friday, February 08, 2002 12:39 PM Subject: Transcript questions > 1. getProp control structure - Other than for implementing virtual > properties, why would this structure ever be used? I don't need to > use it to access custom properties; I only have to refer to the > custom property in a statement: > > put the essentialData of group "myGroup" into mydata > > Using a getProp structure seems like an unnecessary complication. > > 2. The open file command has an optional _for_ form (open file for > update | read | write | append.) I think I understand what each > form does, but what is the default? If I simply use "open file > " does it open "for update" by default? > -- > Devin Asay > Humanities Research Center > Brigham Young University > _______________________________________________ > use-revolution mailing list > use-revolution at lists.runrev.com > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution > From shaosean at unitz.ca Fri Feb 8 15:31:01 2002 From: shaosean at unitz.ca (Shao Sean) Date: Fri Feb 8 15:31:01 2002 Subject: Rotatable fields? References: Message-ID: <002501c1b0df$279cfd40$88b15bd1@dreamlanpc> > If you got adept enough at creating the text and images quickly in a paint program what if there is no program installed on the user's machine? obviously i'm trying to keep everything self-contained within my own program so this isn't really a valid option in my case (it's a nice idea though =) > you might be able to use an AppleScript to i don't use anything platform dependent when i specifically switched to RunRev/MC for the cross-platform capabilities.. plus if i was to just stay on MacOS based machines I'd use REALbasic (mm.. sweet canvas class ;-) thanks for the ideas and the replies, but it looks like it's going to have be put in as a feature request to MetaCard.. From gary.dennis at mantissa.com Fri Feb 8 15:53:01 2002 From: gary.dennis at mantissa.com (Gary Dennis) Date: Fri Feb 8 15:53:01 2002 Subject: Revolution and Task (handler) Overlap Message-ID: <002501c1b0ca$2cd196a0$2a45fea9@mantissasp4600> Please forgive the minutia that follows but I am looking at developing several high volume application in Revolution that will be based on the examination of messages received over multiple TCP/IP connections. Before I shoot myself (and the target application(s)) in the foot so to speak, I would like to get a few things straight in my mind. The test case application receives console output from multiple IBM mainframe systems and filters the console data to call operator attention to high priority messages. Because some of these mainframes have up to 800 active tasks the volume can be substantial (on the order of 5000 messages per minute). The average length of each message is approximately 300 bytes. One thing I noticed early on is that I could not (even in a low volume test environment) let the message handler used to receive the console messages actually process the message because of the speed with which the messages could be received and stored. The environment is Win2k 512 ram, 1gHZ processor speed. At this point in the development, all the test case product actually did was a.) get the message buffer, b.) break the buffer down into lines (crlf delimited message lines, the lf corresponds to the Rev RETURN, the cr part of the message is discarded) and c.) place the message lines AFTER a scrollable field defined on a card. After a line limit is reached (set at 3000 lines), the handler would delete the FIRST line in the field. I discovered that in I was using a replace for the mainframe cr referencing the entire buffer rather than the last character of each line. Causing the replace to reference the last character of each line rather than the entire buffer made some difference but not enough. Question1. Is there a mechanism in Rev that causes all messages to be stacked and executed in sequence as the targer handler exit is taken for the previous message? I had assumed that this is the case. Is there an exception to this? Can you take a message off the message stack for a handler and requeue it? What I did was write a small message receive handler that passed the message ( via "Send") to the formatting and storage handler. I am assuming that the exit of the handler will take place immediately after the READ from socket function and the handler exit is NOT dependent on the completion of the read. Question is..... Question 2. Does this approach give you any true overlap in the receive-process cycle? It appeared to do so. My assumption is that the engine is multithreaded in all cases with calls back to the engine providing the opportunity for handler overlap. Question 3. Is there some way to cause Rev to execute one handler at a higher priority than other handlers? Question 4. Does the Number of lines function actually examine the content of the object to make the determination or is the value an attribute of the object? In general are there Rev commands that cause high CPU utilization when the amount of storage resident data reaches a high level? Thanks...... From gary.dennis at mantissa.com Fri Feb 8 15:53:07 2002 From: gary.dennis at mantissa.com (Gary Dennis) Date: Fri Feb 8 15:53:07 2002 Subject: invisible property of card Message-ID: <004101c1b0e0$e4964220$2a45fea9@mantissasp4600> If you use the "go invisible to card" capability in REV and then simply show and hide the cards as needed, will cards opened this way remain capable of receiving messages though invisible? From zelston at aol.com Fri Feb 8 15:54:01 2002 From: zelston at aol.com (Zac Elston) Date: Fri Feb 8 15:54:01 2002 Subject: use-revolution digest, Vol 1 #179 - 18 msgs In-Reply-To: <200202082028.PAA13440@www.runrev.com> Message-ID: On 2/8/02 3:28 PM, "use-revolution-request at lists.runrev.com" wrote: >> I need to make a group of graphics behave like radio buttons with only one >> possible selection active at a time. >> >> I can write the group script to tell the target, but how do I reset the >> other members of the group? > > Set icons on the buttons. The tools palette in Rev is just a set of radio > buttons, for example. > > set the hilitedButton of group 1 to 1 I don't have buttons, I have graphics. Like a square or circle or polygon. Any ideas? Thanks -zac From shaosean at unitz.ca Fri Feb 8 15:58:00 2002 From: shaosean at unitz.ca (Shao Sean) Date: Fri Feb 8 15:58:00 2002 Subject: invisible property of card References: <004101c1b0e0$e4964220$2a45fea9@mantissasp4600> Message-ID: <001901c1b0e2$de012900$88b15bd1@dreamlanpc> > If you use the "go invisible to card" capability in REV and then simply > show and hide the cards as needed, will cards opened this way remain capable > of receiving messages though invisible? yes From lrivers at realsoftware.com Fri Feb 8 16:29:00 2002 From: lrivers at realsoftware.com (Lorin Rivers) Date: Fri Feb 8 16:29:00 2002 Subject: REALbasic (was Re: Pocket PC) In-Reply-To: <200202080309.WAA10434@www.runrev.com> References: <200202080309.WAA10434@www.runrev.com> Message-ID: At 10:09 PM -0500 2/7/02, use-revolution-request at lists.runrev.com wrote: >Message: 9 >Date: Thu, 07 Feb 2002 23:57:54 +0000 >Subject: Re: REALbasic (was Re: Pocket PC) >From: Ben Rubinstein >To: >Reply-To: use-revolution at lists.runrev.com > >on 4/2/02 9:13 PM, Lorin Rivers at lrivers at realsoftware.com wrote: > >> REALbasic's Windows support improves with every release. We rarely >> get complaints about it any more. > >Lorin, > >I don't want to start a flame war either, but is it possible that this is >because people have given up on it - either switched to another system >altogether, or using RB for Mac development only? Anything is possible, but reviewing sales figures leads me to believe that if people had given up, we'd see a huge decline in Pro upgrades which is far from true. >I was very keen on RB when it first came out; and proudly demoed to >colleagues some simple apps which were cross-platform. When I first tried >to use it seriously to create some simple utilities that had to run on >Windows support I had horrible problems; I got involved with Revolution when >I needed to develop a more serious app on which Windows support was >critical. > >The last thing I did with RB, about seven months ago, was a tool that needed >to extract some data via HTTP, format and print it various ways. Having >just started with Rev, I was undecided what to use; Rev had built-in support >for HTTP, but the printing model on RB is superior to that in Rev - also I >had more experience with RB. I quickly found an HTTP module I could use, >and built the app in RB; on the Mac it did (and does) an excellent job. >When I tried to move it to Windows I had no luck. Going through that >painful debugging process of making changes on a Mac, recompiling for >Windows, moving over to Windows and testing, revealed that there were at >least three separate problems - the HTTP code was getting unexpected >results, the command to raise a print dialog simply did nothing, and the >printing had another problem (my memory grows dim as to the exact details). >This was using version 2.1.2 - at that point 3.1 had just been released. So >I downloaded the demo of that, and found that the situation on Windows was >even worse (again, apologies, I don't have the exact details to hand - I >think I posted them to newsgroup at the time, but didn't get any help). It pains me to hear you had so much difficulty. I believe that these sorts of problems have been addressed (problems with sockets and threads essentially). Every release of REALbasic is greatly improved over the previous one. 3.1 was released about a year ago (and was followed almost immediately by 3.2), and is two major revisions out-of-date. You should try the latest release and see if it's any better. If not, drop me an email offline and I'll try and help you figure out what the trouble is. > As >a side effect, when the demo expired it wiped my license for 2.1.2, so that >was then running in demo mode. That's curious. No reason why that should happen. >I resolved to upgrade RB anyway (company money, not personal) just so that >I'd have it on the shelf; but then 3.5 was in testing, so I thought I might >as well wait for that and not have to get another set of printed manuals. >I've simply not got round to it, because I've been doing everything in >Revolution. You can also order license-only upgrades -- the docs are also supplied as PDFs so you need not burden your shelf needlessly. >RealBasic is an excellent product; there are some aspects of it which I >prefer to Revolution. But at this point I wouldn't bother opening it for >anything that I wasn't convinced would be Mac-only. I'm not posting >complaints about RB's Windows support - but that just means that I'm not >even making the effort any more. If your current methods work well for you, by all means, continue. That said, I'm fairly sure you'll be pleased with the Windows compiling in the latest releases. > > Ben Rubinstein | Email: benr_mc at cogapp.com > Cognitive Applications Ltd | Phone: +44 (0)1273-821600 > http://www.cogapp.com | Fax : +44 (0)1273-728866 -- Lorin Rivers 512.263.1233 x712 v Vice President of Marketing 512.263.1441 f REAL Software mailto:lrivers at realsoftware.com PMB 220 http://www.realsoftware.com 3300 Bee Cave Road, Suite 650 Austin, Texas 78746 REALbasic: the powerful, easy-to-use tool for creating your own software for Macintosh, Mac OS X, and Windows. From yvescoppe at skynet.be Fri Feb 8 16:29:17 2002 From: yvescoppe at skynet.be (yves COPPE) Date: Fri Feb 8 16:29:17 2002 Subject: RR new version Message-ID: Hello, I've found a few bugs in the actual 1.1.1 RR version. So I'm asking : when do you intend the issue of the b2 version ? -- Greetings. Yves COPPE Email : yvescoppe at skynet.be From zelston at aol.com Fri Feb 8 17:08:00 2002 From: zelston at aol.com (Zac Elston) Date: Fri Feb 8 17:08:00 2002 Subject: How do I determine objects in a group? In-Reply-To: <200202082028.PAA13440@www.runrev.com> Message-ID: I think I wasn't clear on my intentions. I am currently using circle graphics as choices in a selection. I know...why would I use graphics instead of buttons? Buttons are for pressing, not graphics..but I need graphics. The user can select only one circle from a group of circles. I use a backgroundcolor change to indicate selection. So basically I have to change a property of an object within a group while resetting the same property of all the other objects in that group. I can write a script for each circle On mouseup Put name into varX Set the backgroundcolor of graphic 1 to red Set the backgroundcolor of graphic 2 to gray Set the backgroundcolor of graphic 3 to gray End mouseup And change the red to match the graphic being pressed. But that seems tedious. Using Set the backgroundcolor of group 1 to gray Set the backgroundcolor of target to red Doesn't work because once red, the graphic will not change to gray when another circle is pressed. I was hoping there was a slick way to determine this like writing a loop in the parent that allows me to bypass writing an action for my ..lets see..30,000 circles I will end up with. Repeate for each object in group Set the backgroundcolor of object to gray end Set the backgroundcolor of target to red Or even if I use buttons, using hilitedButton wants the button id within the group. How can I determine that from outside the group? I want to pass a variable instead of a number. Can I reverse lookup the group members? I can get the group name from the long name of the target but I don't seem to be able to determine what id within the group that target has. So is there an answer to the question: How to I determine objects in a group? Thanks -zac From jeanne at runrev.com Fri Feb 8 18:00:01 2002 From: jeanne at runrev.com (Jeanne A. E. DeVoto) Date: Fri Feb 8 18:00:01 2002 Subject: How do I determine objects in a group? In-Reply-To: References: <200202082028.PAA13440@www.runrev.com> Message-ID: At 2:04 PM -0800 2/8/2002, Zac Elston wrote: >The user can select only one circle from a group of circles. I use a >backgroundcolor change to indicate selection. So basically I have to change >a property of an object within a group while resetting the same property of >all the other objects in that group. > > I can write a script for each circle > >On mouseup >Put name into varX >Set the backgroundcolor of graphic 1 to red >Set the backgroundcolor of graphic 2 to gray >Set the backgroundcolor of graphic 3 to gray >End mouseup >And change the red to match the graphic being pressed. > >But that seems tedious. It is. Here you'll want to put the script in question higher in the message hierarchy. The right way to do this, I think, is to put it into the group script: on mouseUp if word 2 of the name of the target is not "graphic" then pass mouseUp -- do your stuff here end mouseUp This gives you just one handler for the entire group. Now, since the user can highlight only one circle, one way to handle keeping track of this would be to set a custom property (let's call it "redCircle") for the group to hold the currently-highlited circle. Then when you switch to another circle, you only have to change the previously-highlited one, instead of changing them all: on mouseUp if word 1 of the name of the target is not "graphic" then pass mouseUp if the redCircle of me is not empty then set the backgroundColor of graphic ID (the redCircle of me) to gray set the backgroundColor of the target to red set the redCircle of me to the short ID of the target end mouseUp -- Jeanne A. E. DeVoto ~ jeanne at runrev.com http://www.runrev.com/ Runtime Revolution Limited - Power to the Developer! From jeanne at runrev.com Fri Feb 8 18:00:11 2002 From: jeanne at runrev.com (Jeanne A. E. DeVoto) Date: Fri Feb 8 18:00:11 2002 Subject: Rotatable fields? In-Reply-To: <002501c1b0df$279cfd40$88b15bd1@dreamlanpc> References: Message-ID: At 12:28 PM -0800 2/8/2002, Shao Sean wrote: >> If you got adept enough at creating the text and images quickly in a paint >program >what if there is no program installed on the user's machine? obviously i'm >trying to keep everything self-contained within my own program so this isn't >really a valid option in my case (it's a nice idea though =) How about creating the text (as a field) and images on a card, then using the import snapshot command to make that into an image that can be rotated, etc? -- Jeanne A. E. DeVoto ~ jeanne at runrev.com http://www.runrev.com/ Runtime Revolution Limited - Power to the Developer! From iansummerfield at btconnect.com Fri Feb 8 19:31:01 2002 From: iansummerfield at btconnect.com (Ian Summerfield) Date: Fri Feb 8 19:31:01 2002 Subject: Bug in Creating Distribution In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On 8/2/02 6:47 pm, "Kevin Miller" scribed: > On 7/2/02 8:43 pm, Ian Summerfield wrote: > >> Yes I am, is there any other version that would work under OS X? OS X is >> now the only thing that will open the files I've created, I can't then >> create a distribution version. So I've just about lost my work? The stack >> is on the URL to try: >> >> http://homepage.mac.com/macabilityuk/FileSharing1.html >> >> It's for Mac OS 9 really, I just choose to use OS X to do the development >> work. It'll work under OS X too, and it demonstrates a "feature" of using >> answer file of type "APPL" that doesn't permit applications being chosen if >> they are OS X native (e.g. "Preview"). Try opening it in OS 9. Maybe >> someone could build me the final PowerPC using a PC?! > > 1.1.1B1 is in the Developer section of the site under "Latest Test Version". > The type of error report you submitted indicates that you are using 1.1 not > 1.1.1B1. 1.1.1B1 can build a PPC standalone on the OS X platform. 1.1.1B2 > will also be able to build a PPC standalone on the OS 9 platform. Not > ideal, but this is a workaround you can use now to your specific problem. > > Kind regards, > > Kevin > Why you no listen? I am using 1.1.1b1. I can do screen shots to proof it if you want. I trashed 1.1. I have both 1.1.1b1 for Classic and 1.1.1b1 for OS X, only the latter will open the stack. The latter will build PPC code too, but the resulting program won't work either under Classic in OS X or under OS 9 starting the system. I have the full development version. The offending project is on the above URL, have you tried opening it? Perhaps you should. Perhaps someone could and at least try and help me out here. If you open it, build me the PPC program and send it to me, at least I'll be able to install that on my customer that's waiting! -i- From gcanyon at inspiredlogic.com Fri Feb 8 20:22:01 2002 From: gcanyon at inspiredlogic.com (Geoff Canyon) Date: Fri Feb 8 20:22:01 2002 Subject: How do I determine objects in a group? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: At 5:04 PM -0500 2/8/02, Zac Elston wrote: >I was hoping there was a slick way to determine this like writing a loop in >the parent that allows me to bypass writing an action for my ..lets >see..30,000 circles I will end up with. 30,000!? At the same time, or on different cards? Can you describe a bit more about what you actually want to accomplish? regards, gc From drvaughan55 at mac.com Fri Feb 8 22:27:01 2002 From: drvaughan55 at mac.com (David Vaughan) Date: Fri Feb 8 22:27:01 2002 Subject: Bug in Creating Distribution In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <97F7F762-1D0C-11D6-B62D-000393598038@mac.com> Ian Running Rev under OSX I tried building your app (an interesting one, by the way) for PPC and, yes, it crashed under Classic. I then immediately built one of my own stacks for PPC, with no change to the Build Distribution options and it ran like a charm. I have not analysed your stack but the evidence of my test suggest the problem lies there rather than in Rev 1.1b1. If you get a handle on what is glitching in your stack, you are welcome to come looking for further help but, as you are rather more familiar with the design, you will forgive me if I leave the initial search to you. regards David On Saturday, February 9, 2002, at 11:27 , Ian Summerfield wrote: > On 8/2/02 6:47 pm, "Kevin Miller" scribed: > >> On 7/2/02 8:43 pm, Ian Summerfield >> wrote: >> >>> Yes I am, is there any other version that would work under OS X? OS >>> X is >>> now the only thing that will open the files I've created, I can't >>> then >>> create a distribution version. So I've just about lost my work? The >>> stack >>> is on the URL to try: >>> >>> http://homepage.mac.com/macabilityuk/FileSharing1.html >>> >>> It's for Mac OS 9 really, I just choose to use OS X to do the >>> development >>> work. It'll work under OS X too, and it demonstrates a "feature" >>> of using >>> answer file of type "APPL" that doesn't permit applications being >>> chosen if >>> they are OS X native (e.g. "Preview"). Try opening it in OS 9. >>> Maybe >>> someone could build me the final PowerPC using a PC?! >> >> 1.1.1B1 is in the Developer section of the site under "Latest Test >> Version". >> The type of error report you submitted indicates that you are using >> 1.1 not >> 1.1.1B1. 1.1.1B1 can build a PPC standalone on the OS X platform. >> 1.1.1B2 >> will also be able to build a PPC standalone on the OS 9 platform. Not >> ideal, but this is a workaround you can use now to your specific >> problem. >> >> Kind regards, >> >> Kevin >> > > Why you no listen? I am using 1.1.1b1. I can do screen shots to > proof it > if you want. I trashed 1.1. I have both 1.1.1b1 for Classic and > 1.1.1b1 > for OS X, only the latter will open the stack. The latter will build > PPC > code too, but the resulting program won't work either under Classic in > OS X > or under OS 9 starting the system. I have the full development version. > The offending project is on the above URL, have you tried opening it? > Perhaps you should. Perhaps someone could and at least try and help me > out > here. > > If you open it, build me the PPC program and send it to me, at least > I'll > be able to install that on my customer that's waiting! > > -i- > > _______________________________________________ > use-revolution mailing list > use-revolution at lists.runrev.com > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution > From raney at metacard.com Fri Feb 8 23:35:01 2002 From: raney at metacard.com (Scott Raney) Date: Fri Feb 8 23:35:01 2002 Subject: Revolution and Task (handler) Overlap In-Reply-To: <200202090329.WAA21437@www.runrev.com> Message-ID: On Fri, 8 Feb 2002 "Gary Dennis" wrote: > Please forgive the minutia that follows but I am looking at developing > several high volume application in Revolution that will be based on the > examination of messages received over multiple TCP/IP connections. Before > I shoot myself (and the target application(s)) in the foot so to speak, I > would like to get a few things straight in my mind. > > The test case application receives console output from multiple IBM > mainframe systems and filters the console data to call operator attention to > high priority messages. Because some of these mainframes have up to 800 > active tasks the volume can be substantial (on the order of 5000 messages > per minute). The average length of each message is approximately 300 > bytes. Multiplying those together and you end up with just log files that are growing by 2GB *per day*. My first thought is that it might be worth investigating having those systems spew out a little less garbage ;-) > One thing I noticed early on is that I could not (even in a low volume test > environment) let the message handler used to receive the console messages > actually process the message because of the speed with which the messages > could be received and stored. The environment is Win2k 512 ram, 1gHZ > processor speed. My second thought: don't use a Windows operating system for something that calls for a more robust solution. You'll get much better bandwidth through a Linux or BSD box (or any other UNIX box, for that matter) in this type of application. > At this point in the development, all the test case product actually did was > a.) get the message buffer, b.) break the buffer down into lines (crlf > delimited message lines, the lf corresponds to the Rev RETURN, the cr part > of the message is discarded) and c.) place the message lines AFTER a > scrollable field defined on a card. After a line limit is reached (set at > 3000 lines), the handler would delete the FIRST line in the field. Another suggestion: if you're really dealing with a lot of rapidly changing data, don't even put all of it in fields. Just put the part you need displayed in there and keep the rest in a variable. Use a scrollbar object to allow the user to select what part is shown. > I > discovered that in I was using a replace for the mainframe cr referencing > the entire buffer rather than the last character of each line. Causing the > replace to reference the last character of each line rather than the entire > buffer made some difference but not enough. I don't follow this part, but the "replace" command is very fast and shouldn't be a bottleneck unless you're doing it unecessarily (e.g., do it on a section *before* appending it, rather than appending and then doing the replace on the whole buffer again). > Question1. Is there a mechanism in Rev that causes all messages to be > stacked and executed in sequence as the targer handler exit is taken for > the previous message? I had assumed that this is the case. Is there an > exception to this? Can you take a message off the message stack for a > handler and requeue it? Yes, no, and no. > What I did was write a small message receive handler that passed the > message ( via "Send") to the formatting and storage handler. I am assuming > that the exit of the handler will take place immediately after the READ from > socket function and the handler exit is NOT dependent on the completion of > the read. Question is..... This just seems like extra work to me. If the CPU has time to do it later (in addition to the extra overhead), why wouldn't it have even more time just to handle the data as it comes in? The only possible disadvantage I can see would be that you might get several "messages" in one read, but it seems to me this is likely to happen in any case so you've got to handle it anyway. Normal TCP buffering should take care of intermittent (lasting a second or two) overloads. If you really do need to do some "batch" processing on the data that takes a lot of CPU time, you should start thinking about offloading it to a different machine or at least to a different, lower priority, process if you must use only a single machine. > Question 2. Does this approach give you any true overlap in the > receive-process cycle? It appeared to do so. My assumption is that the > engine is multithreaded in all cases with calls back to the engine providing > the opportunity for handler overlap. Sockets are no longer threaded as of engine version 2.4.1 (subprocesses on Win32 are the only remaining threaded code in the engine, and that's only because the Win32 API is missing some key functionality in this area). We ripped all the threading stuff out because it was slow, significantly increased memory requirements, and was just less reliable in general. The apparent overlap is just because you're moving stuff from the front of the message queue to the end. But this operation isn't free, and just makes processing take longer overall. The more things you queue up with "send .. in", the worse the problem gets (keep in mind that it's got to sort through that queue each time through the main event loop). > Question 3. Is there some way to cause Rev to execute one handler at a > higher priority than other handlers? No. > Question 4. Does the Number of lines function actually examine the content > of the object to make the determination or is the value an attribute of the > object? It's calculated, and so is not something you want to do a lot of. > In general are there Rev commands that cause high CPU utilization > when the amount of storage resident data reaches a high level? Not particularly, but as stated above, you want to avoid putting large amounts of data in fields, especially if the data is going to be changing often. Just keep it in variables for best performance. > Thanks...... Regards, Scott PS: I'd also recommend sending your WWW site designers out for "reeducation": I find it personally offensive that you can't even view www.mantissa.com except on a Windows system (it won't even open with browsers other than IE, and is all garbaged up on Macs even with IE). You'll not likely be getting any business from us, or any other users of UNIX or Mac systems, if you stick with this policy. ******************************************************** Scott Raney raney at metacard.com http://www.metacard.com MetaCard: You know, there's an easier way to do that... From shaosean at unitz.ca Sat Feb 9 00:16:01 2002 From: shaosean at unitz.ca (Shao Sean) Date: Sat Feb 9 00:16:01 2002 Subject: Rotatable fields? References: Message-ID: <001901c1b128$67125f30$88b15bd1@dreamlanpc> > How about creating the text (as a field) and images on a card, then using > the import snapshot command to make that into an image that can be rotated, > etc? that's something i thought of too, but the text and images may be bigger than what's visible on the screen (plus windows may be overlapping) plus the import snapshot will place the image in the middle of the window and i'll have a toolbar on the of the window.. i personally don't need to rotate text, that was someone else's problem, mine is just in the ability to precisely place elements (mostly the text) but i'll figure something out and share it with others.. thanks for the help =) From pixelbird at interisland.net Sat Feb 9 01:19:01 2002 From: pixelbird at interisland.net (Ken Norris (dialup)) Date: Sat Feb 9 01:19:01 2002 Subject: Rotatable fields? In-Reply-To: <001901c1b128$67125f30$88b15bd1@dreamlanpc> Message-ID: on 2/8/02 9:12 PM, Shao Sean at shaosean at unitz.ca wrote: > that's something i thought of too, but the text and images may be bigger > than what's visible on the screen (plus windows may be overlapping) ---------- Not if you specify the rect. ---------- > plus the > import snapshot will place the image in the middle of the window and i'll > have a toolbar on the of the window ---------- Not if you specify the rect. ---------- >.. i personally don't need to rotate > text, that was someone else's problem, mine is just in the ability to > precisely place elements (mostly the text) but i'll figure something out and > share it with others.. thanks for the help =) ---------- I don't see why you can't specify a rect, thus positioning the image, whether text or picture, wherever you like. I'm still trying to figure out what it is you want to do that hasn't been covered. HyperCard has a text drawing tool you know. If you're using a Mac, you can run it along side Rev. What would happen to the cross-platform utility if you just copied text drawn with HC and pasted it into a Rev image? Ken N. From pixelbird at interisland.net Sat Feb 9 01:57:00 2002 From: pixelbird at interisland.net (Ken Norris (dialup)) Date: Sat Feb 9 01:57:00 2002 Subject: Dictionary crash. In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Help!! Earlier today, I clicked on a dictionary term to get the reference. First, it showed me a blank window, then immediately, a small window titled revErrorDisplay, also blank. This window appeared momentarily with a beep, then disappeared, then reappeared and stayed with a flashing ! triangle. I clicked on it to see what it was about, but nothing happened, so I clicked the corner to put it away. It finally went away, leaving the blank dictionary defifnition window behind it. I clicked its corner expecting it to disappear, too, but nothing happened. The sound (I'm using Platinum Sounds) happened, but the window stayed. I tried clicking on menus, icons, tool palette items. The sound worked, but nothing happened anywhere. My PowerBook was effectively locked up. I had to force a keyboard restart. I've never experienced this particular behavior before. Tonight, I tried accessing the dictionary definitions again. Again, it displayed a blank definition window, then immediately the blank revErrorDisplay window with a beep, which disappeared/reappeared just as before. I clicked its corner to put it away, which it did, just as before. Then I clicked the blank definition window, but THIS time I said a short prayer and thankfully it went away. Then I came here to ask: What on earth is going on??? Ken N. From inperson at pnc.com.au Sat Feb 9 02:05:00 2002 From: inperson at pnc.com.au (Ian Bridges) Date: Sat Feb 9 02:05:00 2002 Subject: Applescript tutorial Message-ID: For anyone new(ish) to Applescript and wanting to find out more about scripting applications and interpreting the dictionaries of different app's, there is an excellent set of (free) tutorials at www.tandb.com.au T & B are the people who make the script enhancement pack for AppleWorks, which is a great example of adding extra features to an application through AppleScript. Registered users of the pack get access to the inner workings - I thought it was good value in $Au, but it's even better in $US! ($1AU=$0.52US approx) Regards Ian B From jeanne at runrev.com Sat Feb 9 02:21:01 2002 From: jeanne at runrev.com (Jeanne A. E. DeVoto) Date: Sat Feb 9 02:21:01 2002 Subject: Transcript questions In-Reply-To: Message-ID: At 10:39 AM -0800 2/8/2002, Devin Asay wrote: >1. getProp control structure - Other than for implementing virtual >properties, why would this structure ever be used? I don't need to >use it to access custom properties; I only have to refer to the >custom property in a statement: > > put the essentialData of group "myGroup" into mydata > >Using a getProp structure seems like an unnecessary complication. If you just want to set a property to a value, it is. Most of the time you'll just use the property name without creating a getProp handler for it. However, if you want to create a virtual property, or want to trigger other changes when a custom property value changes (for example, changing other properties at the same time), the getProp construct will come in handy. >2. The open file command has an optional _for_ form (open file for >update | read | write | append.) I think I understand what each >form does, but what is the default? If I simply use "open file >" does it open "for update" by default? Yes. -- Jeanne A. E. DeVoto ~ jeanne at runrev.com http://www.runrev.com/ Runtime Revolution Limited - Power to the Developer! From jeanne at runrev.com Sat Feb 9 02:21:35 2002 From: jeanne at runrev.com (Jeanne A. E. DeVoto) Date: Sat Feb 9 02:21:35 2002 Subject: Video clips In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: At 10:12 AM -0800 2/8/2002, Ken Norris (dialup) wrote: >> so you can hold QuickTime movies and use directly the player, or make >> other buttons to do actions and also click on the film to do more >> sophisticated actions (record times, image number , etc.), and more. >> Hope this helps. >---------- >Thanks for the script. What I'm looking for are things like script control >of sprite movement, zooming, hotspots, etc. I didn't run across any syntax >for that stuff. Check out these properties: callbacks pan zoom tilt constraints nodes currentNode -- Jeanne A. E. DeVoto ~ jeanne at runrev.com http://www.runrev.com/ Runtime Revolution Limited - Power to the Developer! From jeanne at runrev.com Sat Feb 9 02:21:41 2002 From: jeanne at runrev.com (Jeanne A. E. DeVoto) Date: Sat Feb 9 02:21:41 2002 Subject: script questions In-Reply-To: Message-ID: At 6:20 AM -0800 2/7/2002, Steve Messimer wrote: >Hi, > >I would like to implement text that hilites itself on mouse over like RR >uses in its documentation. Anybody have an script example I could look at? Here's an example I posted a few weeks back, replying to a similar query: --------- Here's a simplified version which you can place in a field's script. To make a word or phrase "highlightable", change its text style to "link". You may also want to turn off link coloring and link underlining in the Stack Properties palette. on mouseMove -- first unhighlight the "old" phrase if necessary if the storedHilitedChunk of this stack is not empty \ and the storedHilitedChunk of this stack is not the mouseChunk then do "set the backgroundColor of" && \ (the storedHilitedChunk of this stack) && "to empty" set the storedHilitedChunk of this stack to empty end if if the mouseChunk is not empty \ and "link" is in the textStyle of the mouseChunk then set the storedHilitedChunk of this stack to the mouseChunk -- save for later unhighlighting set the backgroundColor of the mouseChunk to "yellow" end if pass mouseMove end mouseMove on mouseLeave if the storedHilitedChunk of this stack is not empty then do "set the backgroundColor of" && \ (the storedHilitedChunk of this stack) && "to empty" set the storedHilitedChunk of this stack to empty end if pass mouseLeave end mouseLeave -- Jeanne A. E. DeVoto ~ jeanne at runrev.com http://www.runrev.com/ Runtime Revolution Limited - Power to the Developer! From jeanne at runrev.com Sat Feb 9 03:50:01 2002 From: jeanne at runrev.com (Jeanne A. E. DeVoto) Date: Sat Feb 9 03:50:01 2002 Subject: Dictionary crash. In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: At 11:05 PM -0800 2/8/2002, Ken Norris (dialup) wrote: >Tonight, I tried accessing the dictionary definitions again. Again, it >displayed a blank definition window, then immediately the blank >revErrorDisplay window with a beep, which disappeared/reappeared just as >before. I clicked its corner to put it away, which it did, just as before. >Then I clicked the blank definition window, but THIS time I said a short >prayer and thankfully it went away. > >Then I came here to ask: What on earth is going on??? What version are you using? Also: if it happens again, try command-period. If it's the problem I'm thinking of, command-period should let you click the definition window to close it. -- Jeanne A. E. DeVoto ~ jeanne at runrev.com http://www.runrev.com/ Runtime Revolution Limited - Power to the Developer! From jeanne at runrev.com Sat Feb 9 03:50:22 2002 From: jeanne at runrev.com (Jeanne A. E. DeVoto) Date: Sat Feb 9 03:50:22 2002 Subject: Bug in Creating Distribution In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Before anyone gets upset on this thread, I feel I should point out that it's two threads in one. Dan Shafer posted the original report, including an error message that indicates he's using 1.1. Kevin replied to him, then Ian, who is using 1.1.1b1, jumped in with his own separate report. At least part of the confusion seems to stem from the fact that there are two problems of two developers being discussed here. Ian, the error is a user break concerning CarbonLib, and you've got a CODE resource in that stack which apparently is getting executed when you open the stack on a pre-OS-X system, causing the error. Removing the resource allows the stack to be opened on 9.x, although the stack itself posts an error asking for an application (I haven't looked closely enough at the stack to figure out whether this is expected behavior or not). Since you didn't mention this resource in either of your problem reports, I'm assuming you didn't put it there, so you might try removing that resource on your Classic build and see whether that solves the problem. -- Jeanne A. E. DeVoto ~ jeanne at runrev.com http://www.runrev.com/ Runtime Revolution Limited - Power to the Developer! From pixelbird at interisland.net Sat Feb 9 03:51:01 2002 From: pixelbird at interisland.net (Ken Norris (dialup)) Date: Sat Feb 9 03:51:01 2002 Subject: How do I determine objects in a group? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: on 2/8/02 2:04 PM, Zac Elston at zelston at aol.com wrote: > I was hoping there was a slick way to determine this like writing a loop in > the parent that allows me to bypass writing an action for my ..lets > see..30,000 circles I will end up with. ---------- Can you tell us, at least whenever you get ready to release the app, what on earth you will do with 30,000 circles? Enquiring minds want to know... In the meantime, I'd do what others say: write a handler for the group that only allows hiliting (changing color) of one circle at a time. I think there are several ways of doing it, though. What I used to do in early HyperCard versions (which didn't support radio button families) was put the number, or, in this case the image ID, of the clicked image into a global variable, and just unhilite it (change the color back) when you click the next image. Something like (untested): on mouseUp global gImageID if gImageID is not empty then set the color of image gImageID to theNormalColor --the unhilited color end if set the color of me to theHiliteColor -- what it says put the ID of me into gImageID -- store the clicked image ID doMySuperHandler -- your action end mousUp Best regards, Ken N. From pixelbird at interisland.net Sat Feb 9 04:11:01 2002 From: pixelbird at interisland.net (Ken Norris (dialup)) Date: Sat Feb 9 04:11:01 2002 Subject: Applescript tutorial In-Reply-To: Message-ID: on 2/8/02 11:02 PM, Ian Bridges at inperson at pnc.com.au wrote: > For anyone new(ish) to Applescript and wanting to find out more about > scripting applications and interpreting the dictionaries of different app's, > there is an excellent set of (free) tutorials at www.tandb.com.au > > T & B are the people who make the script enhancement pack for AppleWorks, > which is a great example of adding extra features to an application through > AppleScript. Registered users of the pack get access to the inner workings - > I thought it was good value in $Au, but it's even better in $US! > ($1AU=$0.52US approx) ---------- Thanks for the info. Looks like useable stuff. Best regards, Ken N. From pixelbird at interisland.net Sat Feb 9 04:13:00 2002 From: pixelbird at interisland.net (Ken Norris (dialup)) Date: Sat Feb 9 04:13:00 2002 Subject: AppleScripts In-Reply-To: Message-ID: on 2/8/02 8:33 AM, Olivier Laya at laya at inrets.fr wrote: Hi, I have find 'AppleScriptlangageguide .PDF' on this site : ,few months ago. I hope it's always there. ---------- Pain in the clock to search online while you're trying to write, though. I recommend printing it all out. Ken N. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From heather at runrev.com Sat Feb 9 05:10:01 2002 From: heather at runrev.com (Heather Williams) Date: Sat Feb 9 05:10:01 2002 Subject: FW: Revolution and Task (handler) Overlap In-Reply-To: <09142460-1D26-11D6-B62D-000393598038@mac.com> Message-ID: -- Heather Williams Runtime Revolution Ltd. Tel: +44 (0) 131 7184333 Fax: +44 (0)1639 830707 Ten Thumbs Typing Tutor Teach your Fingers to Dance ------ Forwarded Message From: David Vaughan Date: Sat, 9 Feb 2002 16:02:36 +1100 To: use-revolution at lists.runrev.com Subject: Re: Revolution and Task (handler) Overlap Resent-From: David Vaughan Resent-To: use-revolution-admin at lists.runrev.com Resent-Date: Sat, 9 Feb 2002 17:27:05 +1100 I concur with all of Scott's comments (including his PS) and have added a couple. It actually sounds like a task that may need some pre-processing in something like sed to filter requisite data into the Rev management app. On Saturday, February 9, 2002, at 03:31 , Scott Raney wrote: > On Fri, 8 Feb 2002 "Gary Dennis" wrote: > >> Please forgive the minutiae [get your Latin right :-)] that follows >> but I am looking at developing snip >> The test case application receives console output from multiple IBM >> mainframe systems and filters the console data to call operator >> attention to >> high priority messages. Because some of these mainframes have up to >> 800 >> active tasks the volume can be substantial (on the order of 5000 >> messages >> per minute). The average length of each message is approximately 300 >> bytes. > > Multiplying those together and you end up with just log files that are > growing by 2GB *per day*. My first thought is that it might be worth > investigating having those systems spew out a little less garbage ;-) > snip >> At this point in the development, all the test case product actually >> did was >> a.) get the message buffer, b.) break the buffer down into lines (crlf >> delimited message lines, the lf corresponds to the Rev RETURN, the cr >> part >> of the message is discarded) Why? Rev knows what a line is in the different environments, and it seems to be lines you want to process. >> and c.) place the message lines AFTER a >> scrollable field defined on a card. After a line limit is reached >> (set at >> 3000 lines), the handler would delete the FIRST line in the field. > > Another suggestion: if you're really dealing with a lot of rapidly > changing data, don't even put all of it in fields. Just put the part > you need displayed in there and keep the rest in a variable. Use a > scrollbar object to allow the user to select what part is shown. Emphatic agreement. Variables are much faster than fields. However, if your limit is 3000 lines then why ask for the Number of Lines in the field/variable? When the process starts, count up from one (increment a variable) until you get to 3000 and thereafter always discard the first line when you add another. > >> I >> discovered that in I was using a replace for the mainframe cr >> referencing >> the entire buffer rather than the last character of each line. Causing >> the >> replace to reference the last character of each line rather than the >> entire >> buffer made some difference but not enough. > > I don't follow this part, but the "replace" command is very fast and > shouldn't be a bottleneck unless you're doing it unecessarily (e.g., > do it on a section *before* appending it, rather than appending and > then doing the replace on the whole buffer again). Eh? I don't follow you here Scott. Surely Replace on each line as it arrives would be faster than appending the line to the variable and then doing a Replace which you **know** needs to work on only the second-last character in the entire 3000 lines. Of course, it is not clear to me why the cr is being replaced at all on that platform. > snip >> Question 3. Is there some way to cause Rev to execute one handler at a >> higher priority than other handlers? > > No. One way or another, if you are going to use one CPU to handle everything then that is what the CPU has to do and straight through processing will be more efficient than fiddling with priorities. Priorities = assumed willingness to lose data/function in the lower priority tasks. > >> Question 4. Does the Number of lines function actually examine the >> content >> of the object to make the determination or is the value an attribute >> of the >> object? > > It's calculated, and so is not something you want to do a lot of. ...and you don't need to in this case. See my earlier comment. > >> snip regards David ------ End of Forwarded Message From pixelbird at interisland.net Sat Feb 9 05:48:01 2002 From: pixelbird at interisland.net (Ken Norris (dialup)) Date: Sat Feb 9 05:48:01 2002 Subject: Dictionary crash. In-Reply-To: Message-ID: on 2/9/02 12:30 AM, Jeanne A. E. DeVoto at jeanne at runrev.com wrote: > What version are you using? ---------- 1.1.1b1 ---------- > Also: if it happens again, try command-period. If it's the problem I'm > thinking of, command-period should let you click the definition window to > close it. ---------- It 'felt' like a memory problem of some kind. My PB doesn't have much. I was on the net which means the extensions were active, plus OE was open. When I closed OE, everything went OK, sort of. The dictionary terms came up all right, but when I first click on a term it takes a lonnnng time for the definition window to show up. After a few shots into it it picked up speed, though I'm not sure why. While you're in here with us late-nighters on the West Coast, I thought I'd bring up a few things, but it might be a little long so I'll start another thread. Best regards, Ken N. From pixelbird at interisland.net Sat Feb 9 06:39:01 2002 From: pixelbird at interisland.net (Ken Norris) Date: Sat Feb 9 06:39:01 2002 Subject: Visualization In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Hi. Well, here goes: 1) I usually don't have trouble visualizing graphical imagery, it's what i've done most of my work life, but with Rev I'm experiencing some difficulties with understanding organizational relationships of domain-type structures, objects and layers, and relative message-passing hierarchies, in word descriptions. It seems like the very things that make it powerful can also make it very convoluted and difficult to understand. For me, main stacks and sub stacks is one of these. Here's an example right from the docs: "You can set the mainStack of a stack to any open main stack.". Sounds like meaningless doubletalk. I still don't have a strong impression of exactly how they work together. Is a sub stack part of a main stack, or separate and enclosed by the main stack, or is it layered under the main stack, or what? The groups concept can get confusing, too. What I want to do is make a stack that graphically represents how these things work. I believe the idea has merit, at least for me, and maybe for others as well. 2) I'm also interested in developing structured modules, prescripted tasks which can be used by many of us. They could be fairly loose so that even if they don't meet specific needs, they can still be used as shells or models. They could be available in menus/taskbars. I started a thread on the HC list about this which appears to have generated some genuine interest. Myself and several others are beginning some work on these ideas. 3) Another thing is to integrate QT with stack tutorials. You can pick a topic and run a QT movie track in the background while following along in a real stack. Armen, over on the HC list, rendered the old HC video into QT and is sending some of us 3 CD sets so we can tinker with this idea. Best regards and good night to the West Coast U.S. Hope we have a safe Winter Olympics. Ken N. From iansummerfield at btconnect.com Sat Feb 9 08:53:01 2002 From: iansummerfield at btconnect.com (Ian Summerfield) Date: Sat Feb 9 08:53:01 2002 Subject: Bug in Creating Distribution In-Reply-To: <97F7F762-1D0C-11D6-B62D-000393598038@mac.com> Message-ID: On 9/2/02 3:24 am, "David Vaughan" scribed: > Ian > > Running Rev under OSX I tried building your app (an interesting one, by > the way) for PPC and, yes, it crashed under Classic. I then immediately > built one of my own stacks for PPC, with no change to the Build > Distribution options and it ran like a charm. > > I have not analysed your stack but the evidence of my test suggest the > problem lies there rather than in Rev 1.1b1. If you get a handle on what > is glitching in your stack, you are welcome to come looking for further > help but, as you are rather more familiar with the design, you will > forgive me if I leave the initial search to you. > > regards > David Thanks for looking at it. I really appreciate the help. The problem was a strange code resource in the original project which I didn't put there! I removed that and it all behaves well now. From iansummerfield at btconnect.com Sat Feb 9 09:58:01 2002 From: iansummerfield at btconnect.com (Ian Summerfield) Date: Sat Feb 9 09:58:01 2002 Subject: How to find the "blessed folder" Message-ID: Use Mac OS 9 (or even Mac OS X). I want to create a preferences file for my application. I don't really want to put it in the default folder as that isn't very Mac like. How can I find the path to the proper blessed System Folder? I have multiple hard drives, so the answers isn't to take the root of the default folder and append "System Folder:Preferences"! That wouldn't work in every European language anyway. I'm sure there was an applescript command for it, but I can't find it in the reference guide. From rcozens at pon.net Sat Feb 9 10:50:01 2002 From: rcozens at pon.net (Rob Cozens) Date: Sat Feb 9 10:50:01 2002 Subject: Revolution and Task (handler) Overlap In-Reply-To: References: <200202090329.WAA21437@www.runrev.com> Message-ID: >PS: I'd also recommend sending your WWW site designers out for >"reeducation": I find it personally offensive that you can't even view >www.mantissa.com except on a Windows system (it won't even open with >browsers other than IE, and is all garbaged up on Macs even with IE). >You'll not likely be getting any business from us, or any other users >of UNIX or Mac systems, if you stick with this policy. Hi all, I'd like to add my voice in agreement. Every time I visit a website that tells me, "This website is best viewed in..." or "This website requires someKindOfPlugIn...", my reaction is, "OK, if you're more interested in creating the latest 'wiz-bang effect' than providing a consistent experience for visitors using different browsers, I'm not going to waste my time at your website." The goal of html, xml, and other industry standards is to allow creation of documents that can be viewed indetically across browsers & across platforms. The fact that Microsoft's attitude is "standards...what standards? We're so big whatever we do sets the standard." really irks me. Rob Cozens CCW, Serendipity Software Company "And I, which was two fooles, do so grow three; Who are a little wise, the best fooles bee." from "The Triple Foole" by John Donne (1572-1631) From jacque at hyperactivesw.com Sat Feb 9 12:43:01 2002 From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (Jacqueline Landman Gay) Date: Sat Feb 9 12:43:01 2002 Subject: Dictionary crash. References: <200202091703.MAA00899@www.runrev.com> Message-ID: <3C655F16.5F835D0B@hyperactivesw.com> use-revolution-request at lists.runrev.com wrote: The problem Ken described happened to me yesterday too, with a slight variation. I launched Rev 1.1.1b1, did not open any stacks or do anything else, then just chose the language ref from the menu. I typed a search term into the field, hit return, and Rev showed me the blank error dialog box. While trying to dismiss it, Rev immediately crashed and quit without warning. MacOS 9.1, G4, Rev 1.1.1b1. -- Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com HyperActive Software | HypActSftw at aol.com Custom hypermedia solutions | http://www.hyperactivesw.com 612.724.1596 | 612.724.1562 - fax From yvescoppe at skynet.be Sat Feb 9 12:48:01 2002 From: yvescoppe at skynet.be (yves COPPE) Date: Sat Feb 9 12:48:01 2002 Subject: How to find the "blessed folder" In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: >Use Mac OS 9 (or even Mac OS X). I want to create a preferences file for my >application. I don't really want to put it in the default folder as that >isn't very Mac like. How can I find the path to the proper blessed System >Folder? I have multiple hard drives, so the answers isn't to take the root >of the default folder and append "System Folder:Preferences"! That wouldn't >work in every European language anyway. I'm sure there was an applescript >command for it, but I can't find it in the reference guide. > >_ In the transcript dictionary, look at the "specialfolderpath". It answers just what you need -- Greetings. Yves COPPE Email : yvescoppe at skynet.be From wow at together.net Sat Feb 9 13:03:01 2002 From: wow at together.net (Richard D. Miller) Date: Sat Feb 9 13:03:01 2002 Subject: CD's, new drives, labels In-Reply-To: Message-ID: I'd like to hear thoughts on attaching labels to CD's. I know there used to be no particular problem printing out CD labels and attaching them to CD's (for commercial distribution), but now with the really fast CD readers (20+ speed), I've heard it may be a bigger issue because of tighter tolerances. Any opinions? Any direct experience? Thanks. Richard Miller From yvescoppe at skynet.be Sat Feb 9 13:46:00 2002 From: yvescoppe at skynet.be (yves COPPE) Date: Sat Feb 9 13:46:00 2002 Subject: script of "transcript dictionary" stadk Message-ID: Hello, In the "revolution documentation" stack, when you click on transcript language, you come on the "transcript language dictionary" page. There you have n option popup btn, a fld and below this fld a scrolling fld. I'd like to know (for a stack of mine) the script of the fld in which we may type in, with the two options - scroll to or filter (of the popUp btn near him). I've tried to edit this stack to access the script but I cannot. Can you please help me ? Thanks. -- From pixelbird at interisland.net Sat Feb 9 15:29:01 2002 From: pixelbird at interisland.net (Ken Norris (dialup)) Date: Sat Feb 9 15:29:01 2002 Subject: Dictionary crash. In-Reply-To: <3C655F16.5F835D0B@hyperactivesw.com> Message-ID: on 2/9/02 9:40 AM, Jacqueline Landman Gay at jacque at hyperactivesw.com wrote: > The problem Ken described happened to me yesterday too, with a slight > variation. I launched Rev 1.1.1b1, did not open any stacks or do > anything else, then just chose the language ref from the menu. I typed a > search term into the field, hit return, and Rev showed me the blank > error dialog box. While trying to dismiss it, Rev immediately crashed > and quit without warning. MacOS 9.1, G4, Rev 1.1.1b1. ---------- At least I know I wasn't alone in the night. Did you have another app open when it happened? I had 2 other apps open, I think, Outlook Express for sure, because I was here reading messages, etc., which means the modem extensions were running as well. When I quit OE, most of Rev's stuff worked OK. Could there be an extension conflict? Best regards, Ken N. From mkorica at ica.net Sat Feb 9 15:37:01 2002 From: mkorica at ica.net (Mat Korica) Date: Sat Feb 9 15:37:01 2002 Subject: Image Manipulation (was Re: Rotatable fields?) Message-ID: >So your goal is to create and manipulate images and text in real time? Or >online? That's a toughie. The only way I think you could do this would be >like I said before. If you got adept enough at creating the text and images >quickly in a paint program, you might be able to use an AppleScript to >automate transferring them into the stack of your choice. It would be very cool if RR were to integrate the free ImageMagick library into Revolution. Imagine the functionality of Photoshop available through Transcript! http://www.imagemagick.org/ Regards, Mat --- Make a FREE food donation to hungry people around the world. http://www.thehungersite.com From gary.dennis at mantissa.com Sat Feb 9 17:19:01 2002 From: gary.dennis at mantissa.com (Gary Dennis) Date: Sat Feb 9 17:19:01 2002 Subject: Revolution and Task (handler) Overlap - Questions and special thanks to the latin expert and web police References: Message-ID: <000e01c1b1b1$4047f570$2a45fea9@mantissasp4600> See comments, questions below. Thanks.... . ----- Original Message ----- From: "Scott Raney" To: Sent: Friday, February 08, 2002 10:31 PM Subject: Re: Revolution and Task (handler) Overlap > On Fri, 8 Feb 2002 "Gary Dennis" wrote: > > > Please forgive the minutia that follows but I am looking at developing > > several high volume application in Revolution that will be based on the > > examination of messages received over multiple TCP/IP connections. Before > > I shoot myself (and the target application(s)) in the foot so to speak, I > > would like to get a few things straight in my mind. > > > > The test case application receives console output from multiple IBM > > mainframe systems and filters the console data to call operator attention to > > high priority messages. Because some of these mainframes have up to 800 > > active tasks the volume can be substantial (on the order of 5000 messages > > per minute). The average length of each message is approximately 300 > > bytes. > > Multiplying those together and you end up with just log files that are > growing by 2GB *per day*. My first thought is that it might be worth > investigating having those systems spew out a little less garbage ;-) Thanks for the calculation (the reason for my original email). I didn't say that the application would keep the data,only that it would receive and screen. As for the data spew, the 800 tasks might be intellectual property of 400 companies. It would be some task to contact all 400, tell them that I had written an application using a tool that was incapable of managing the combined message flow and asking them to make changes in the messages their software produced to compensate for the less-than-stellar performance of my application. > > > One thing I noticed early on is that I could not (even in a low volume test > > environment) let the message handler used to receive the console messages > > actually process the message because of the speed with which the messages > > could be received and stored. The environment is Win2k 512 ram, 1gHZ > > processor speed. > > My second thought: don't use a Windows operating system for something > that calls for a more robust solution. You'll get much better > bandwidth through a Linux or BSD box (or any other UNIX box, for that > matter) in this type of application. Recall that the development tool is Revolution. Develop anywhere, run anywhere; right? Thirty one years in software development tells me that you develop on the least robust target platform, tune for the worst, and hope that the customer can and will make the switch when the volume dictates. If some of your following answers are true for all platforms, what real difference would Linux make? My goal is to make a decision on a cross-platform development tool for my company not become an OS propeller head. I just watched 2 guys with 8 years combined Unix/Linux experience mud wrestle with a portable, SUSE Linux, and a $65 PCMCIA card for two days before getting it to connect to the LAN. Life is too short, then you die. > > > At this point in the development, all the test case product actually did was > > a.) get the message buffer, b.) break the buffer down into lines (crlf > > delimited message lines, the lf corresponds to the Rev RETURN, the cr part > > of the message is discarded) and c.) place the message lines AFTER a > > scrollable field defined on a card. After a line limit is reached (set at > > 3000 lines), the handler would delete the FIRST line in the field. > > Another suggestion: if you're really dealing with a lot of rapidly > changing data, don't even put all of it in fields. Just put the part > you need displayed in there and keep the rest in a variable. Use a > scrollbar object to allow the user to select what part is shown. What am I missing? The field I'm using is scrollable. The idea was to give the user a view anywhere inside the "retained" number of lines. Is there some rev object that will give me live scrolling of variable content? > > > I > > discovered that in I was using a replace for the mainframe cr referencing > > the entire buffer rather than the last character of each line. Causing the > > replace to reference the last character of each line rather than the entire > > buffer made some difference but not enough. > > I don't follow this part, but the "replace" command is very fast and > shouldn't be a bottleneck unless you're doing it unecessarily (e.g., > do it on a section *before* appending it, rather than appending and > then doing the replace on the whole buffer again). > > > Question1. Is there a mechanism in Rev that causes all messages to be > > stacked and executed in sequence as the targer handler exit is taken for > > the previous message? I had assumed that this is the case. Is there an > > exception to this? Can you take a message off the message stack for a > > handler and requeue it? > > Yes, no, and no. So once you send a message, that message is handled next regardless of other messages that may be received? > > > What I did was write a small message receive handler that passed the > > message ( via "Send") to the formatting and storage handler. I am assuming > > that the exit of the handler will take place immediately after the READ from > > socket function and the handler exit is NOT dependent on the completion of > > the read. Question is..... > > This just seems like extra work to me. If the CPU has time to do it > later (in addition to the extra overhead), why wouldn't it have even > more time just to handle the data as it comes in? The only possible > disadvantage I can see would be that you might get several "messages" > in one read, but it seems to me this is likely to happen in any case > so you've got to handle it anyway. Normal TCP buffering should take > care of intermittent (lasting a second or two) overloads. If you > really do need to do some "batch" processing on the data that takes a > lot of CPU time, you should start thinking about offloading it to a > different machine or at least to a different, lower priority, process > if you must use only a single machine. > It wouldn't have more time later. This would be especially true if the read is a BLOCKING read. If it is tell me now and I will give our copy of REV to charity ( though that wouldn't be very charitable). 99 % of the time we get more than one message. One operator command issued on such a mainframe could generate 16 to 32K of message output. The advantage of the send (if and only if the read is not a blocking read) could be that the read wait time could be used by handler that was the target of the send. I'm trying to figure out if REV is a popgun UI tool that I'm trying to use for Rhino. Synchronous thinking in what has to be an async environment won't really buy me anything. > > Question 2. Does this approach give you any true overlap in the > > receive-process cycle? It appeared to do so. My assumption is that the > > engine is multithreaded in all cases with calls back to the engine providing > > the opportunity for handler overlap. > > Sockets are no longer threaded as of engine version 2.4.1 > (subprocesses on Win32 are the only remaining threaded code in the > engine, and that's only because the Win32 API is missing some key > functionality in this area). We ripped all the threading stuff out > because it was slow, significantly increased memory requirements, and > was just less reliable in general. The apparent overlap is just > because you're moving stuff from the front of the message queue to the > end. But this operation isn't free, and just makes processing take > longer overall. The more things you queue up with "send .. in", the > worse the problem gets (keep in mind that it's got to sort through > that queue each time through the main event loop). No longer threaded for Win32 or for all target platforms? Slower for Win32 or all platforms? Let me get this straight. You simply push the message to the end of the queue so that... read from socket x ... messagereceived on messagereceived s,data send " messageprocessor data" read from socket s .... messagereceived end messagereceiver causes the sent message put to be pushed to the back of the queue until the read is satisfied? Is the read truly a blocking read? If so, is it that way for all platforms? Slow is relative, significantly increased memory would be expected, and just less reliable would usually relate to the quality of the code. Please tell me that this was not done for all target platforms. We had planned to recommend deployment under OSX. If this was done for all platforms, it strikes me that you had some stellar goals that you gave up on. > > > Question 3. Is there some way to cause Rev to execute one handler at a > > higher priority than other handlers? > > No. > Seriously? Not even the ability to specify that execution is ASYNC as it relates to other handlers? > > Question 4. Does the Number of lines function actually examine the content > > of the object to make the determination or is the value an attribute of the > > object? > > It's calculated, and so is not something you want to do a lot of. > > > In general are there Rev commands that cause high CPU utilization > > when the amount of storage resident data reaches a high level? > > Not particularly, but as stated above, you want to avoid putting large > amounts of data in fields, especially if the data is going to be > changing often. Just keep it in variables for best performance. > > > Thanks...... > > Regards, > Scott > > PS: I'd also recommend sending your WWW site designers out for > "reeducation": I find it personally offensive that you can't even view > www.mantissa.com except on a Windows system (it won't even open with > browsers other than IE, and is all garbaged up on Macs even with IE). > You'll not likely be getting any business from us, or any other users > of UNIX or Mac systems, if you stick with this policy. > We design and write software, not web sites. Besides, if we had everything (including web designers), where would we put it (or them)? If we did sell our products to UNIX, Linux, or non-i.e. customers we would owe them a refund since we have no such products. However, if those platforms are ever supported, we will change the site. Until then, whenever you want to be personally offended please visit our site. > ******************************************************** > Scott Raney raney at metacard.com http://www.metacard.com > MetaCard: You know, there's an easier way to do that... > > _______________________________________________ > use-revolution mailing list > use-revolution at lists.runrev.com > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution > From gary.dennis at mantissa.com Sat Feb 9 17:19:20 2002 From: gary.dennis at mantissa.com (Gary Dennis) Date: Sat Feb 9 17:19:20 2002 Subject: Revolution and Task (handler) Overlap References: Message-ID: <002001c1b1b5$f619afc0$2a45fea9@mantissasp4600> Thank you Except for the few comments below, see other response. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Heather Williams" To: Sent: Saturday, February 09, 2002 4:06 AM Subject: FW: Revolution and Task (handler) Overlap > > -- > Heather Williams > Runtime Revolution Ltd. > Tel: +44 (0) 131 7184333 Fax: +44 (0)1639 830707 > Ten Thumbs Typing Tutor Teach your Fingers to Dance > > ------ Forwarded Message > From: David Vaughan > Date: Sat, 9 Feb 2002 16:02:36 +1100 > To: use-revolution at lists.runrev.com > Subject: Re: Revolution and Task (handler) Overlap > Resent-From: David Vaughan > Resent-To: use-revolution-admin at lists.runrev.com > Resent-Date: Sat, 9 Feb 2002 17:27:05 +1100 > > I concur with all of Scott's comments (including his PS) and have added > a couple. > It actually sounds like a task that may need some pre-processing in > something like sed to filter requisite data into the Rev management app. > > On Saturday, February 9, 2002, at 03:31 , Scott Raney wrote: > > > On Fri, 8 Feb 2002 "Gary Dennis" wrote: > > > >> Please forgive the minutiae [get your Latin right :-)] that follows > >> but I am looking at developing > snip > >> The test case application receives console output from multiple IBM > >> mainframe systems and filters the console data to call operator > >> attention to > >> high priority messages. Because some of these mainframes have up to > >> 800 > >> active tasks the volume can be substantial (on the order of 5000 > >> messages > >> per minute). The average length of each message is approximately 300 > >> bytes. > > > > Multiplying those together and you end up with just log files that are > > growing by 2GB *per day*. My first thought is that it might be worth > > investigating having those systems spew out a little less garbage ;-) > > > snip > >> At this point in the development, all the test case product actually > >> did was > >> a.) get the message buffer, b.) break the buffer down into lines (crlf > >> delimited message lines, the lf corresponds to the Rev RETURN, the cr > >> part > >> of the message is discarded) > Why? Rev knows what a line is in the different environments, and it > seems to be lines you want to process. We let REV do that already, we are not looking byte -byte to determine where the line ends. > > >> and c.) place the message lines AFTER a > >> scrollable field defined on a card. After a line limit is reached > >> (set at > >> 3000 lines), the handler would delete the FIRST line in the field. > > > > Another suggestion: if you're really dealing with a lot of rapidly > > changing data, don't even put all of it in fields. Just put the part > > you need displayed in there and keep the rest in a variable. Use a > > scrollbar object to allow the user to select what part is shown. > Emphatic agreement. Variables are much faster than fields. > However, if your limit is 3000 lines then why ask for the Number of > Lines in the field/variable? When the process starts, count up from one > (increment a variable) until you get to 3000 and thereafter always > discard the first line when you add another. > > We don't ask for the number of lines in the field. we actually count sdo we know when to delete then > >> I > >> discovered that in I was using a replace for the mainframe cr > >> referencing > >> the entire buffer rather than the last character of each line. Causing > >> the > >> replace to reference the last character of each line rather than the > >> entire > >> buffer made some difference but not enough. > > > > I don't follow this part, but the "replace" command is very fast and > > shouldn't be a bottleneck unless you're doing it unecessarily (e.g., > > do it on a section *before* appending it, rather than appending and > > then doing the replace on the whole buffer again). > Eh? I don't follow you here Scott. Surely Replace on each line as it > arrives would be faster than appending the line to the variable and then > doing a Replace which you **know** needs to work on only the second-last > character in the entire 3000 lines. Of course, it is not clear to me why > the cr is being replaced at all on that platform. > > We receive buffers which contain lines or partial lines. Partial lines are snipped off and saved as buffer fragments which are suppended to the next buffer. Replace is done only for the last character in each line. The buffer content may be selectively echoed to n connected clients where N would usually be less than 20. > snip > >> Question 3. Is there some way to cause Rev to execute one handler at a > >> higher priority than other handlers? > > > > No. > One way or another, if you are going to use one CPU to handle everything > then that is what the CPU has to do and straight through processing will > be more efficient than fiddling with priorities. Priorities = assumed > willingness to lose data/function in the lower priority tasks. > > > >> Question 4. Does the Number of lines function actually examine the > >> content > >> of the object to make the determination or is the value an attribute > >> of the > >> object? > > > > It's calculated, and so is not something you want to do a lot of. > ...and you don't need to in this case. See my earlier comment. > > > >> > snip > > regards > David > > > ------ End of Forwarded Message > > _______________________________________________ > use-revolution mailing list > use-revolution at lists.runrev.com > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution From bvg at mac.com Sat Feb 9 18:05:02 2002 From: bvg at mac.com (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Bj=F6rnke_von_Gierke?=) Date: Sat Feb 9 18:05:02 2002 Subject: My Bold Script is slow In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Freitag, Februar 8, 2002, at 03:49 Uhr, Terry Vogelaar wrote: > Hello Bj?rnke, > > It took a while before I knew how to handle this, but the resulting > script > is fast and simple. As far as I know, it only works with fields, not > with > selections. I hope you don't mind. If it is important, maybe you can > make a > workaround by copying the selection in an empty field first. > > on mouseUp > put the htmltext of fld 1 into var1 > replace "" with "" in var1 > replace "" with "" in var1 > set the htmltext of fld 1 to var1 > end mouseUp > > Terry Hey thats a cool solution, but unfortunately it will deselect the text! As it is not working with the selection it is not applicable for me, what is realy regretable, couse that's realy a fast solution. Anyway, I have found a pretty fast solution myself, and am not longer in need of a faster way of removing styles. If anyone else has a similar problem, I added the script below: on mouseUp put "bold" into myStyle lock screen --this speeds things extremly up! repeat with myChar = the second word of the selectedChunk to \ the fourth word of the selectedChunk put the textStyle of char myChar of card field "text" into myCurrentStyle if myStyle is in myCurrentStyle then -- this if statement passes by any non bold chars, minor enhancement put myChar into mySecChar repeat while the textStyle of char mySecChar+1 of field "text" = \ myRepeat and mySecChar < the number of chars in the selection add one to mySecChar end repeat -- I persumed that the writing is what's slow, and I was right! -- With this loop I gained around 2000-3000%!!!!!!!!! delete item itemoffset(myStyle,myRepeat) myRepeat --isn't faster then bevore set the textstyle of char myChar to mySecChar of field "text" to myCurrentStyle put mySecChar into myChar -- thanks to the loop, I can just bypass many chars, often all of the bold-ies, -- as they tend to group (these nasty budgers ;-). end if end repeat end mouseUp so if anyone needs a real fast style-remover/adder which doesn't change other styles, then feel free to use this one, but please appriciate my work on it (I needed almost 3 f*&% weeks! ) and please include a "style-script made by BvG" comment into your script. sincerely yours Bj?rnke von Gierke From pixelbird at interisland.net Sat Feb 9 18:21:01 2002 From: pixelbird at interisland.net (Ken Norris (dialup)) Date: Sat Feb 9 18:21:01 2002 Subject: Image Manipulation (was Re: Rotatable fields?) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: on 2/9/02 12:51 PM, Mat Korica at mkorica at ica.net wrote: > It would be very cool if RR were to integrate the free ImageMagick library > into Revolution. Imagine the functionality of Photoshop available through > Transcript! ---------- I'm just beginning to experiment with them myself, but Rev does some of these things already. Checkout the Ink property commands like addOver, subOver, also blend, blendLevel, borderPatterns, srcCopy, etc. Some only work on Macs. Since the dictionary lists things in alpha order its sometimes hard to find relative terms, so I'm making a stack that groups lists of relative terms. What I need is access to the dictionary scripts, so I can show the definition/example fields from those lists. When you're trying to learn a new language and are dealing with a specific set of tasks, like manipulating images and graphics, it's maddening to have to search the whole dictionary for proper terms and syntax. It's one of my pet projects, i.e., grouping the terms and syntax for like kinds of tasks together, with charts and demos. Best regards, Ken N. From jdhardin at facstaff.wisc.edu Sat Feb 9 18:44:01 2002 From: jdhardin at facstaff.wisc.edu (Jeff Hardin) Date: Sat Feb 9 18:44:01 2002 Subject: QT editing, QT 5 bug fix? In-Reply-To: <200202092306.SAA07562@www.runrev.com> References: <200202092306.SAA07562@www.runrev.com> Message-ID: Hi Folks- Can RunRev do any rudimentary editing of QT movies (Cut, Copy, Paste, Clear, Undo)? I couldn't find any documentation on this, but I might have missed it. Cheers, Jeff P.S.- Any progress on the QT 5 standard controller bug? Just wondering... -- ********************************* Jeff Hardin - Dept. of Zoology - Univ. of Wisconsin 1117 W. Johnson St. - Madison, WI 53706 USA voice: (608) 262-9634 (office)/ (608) 265-2520 (lab) fax: (608) 262-7319 email: jdhardin at facstaff.wisc.edu WWW: http://www.wisc.edu/zoology/faculty/fac/Har/Har.html ********************************* From bvg at mac.com Sat Feb 9 19:04:01 2002 From: bvg at mac.com (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Bj=F6rnke_von_Gierke?=) Date: Sat Feb 9 19:04:01 2002 Subject: Revolution and Task (handler) Overlap - Questions and special thanks to the latin expert and web police In-Reply-To: <000e01c1b1b1$4047f570$2a45fea9@mantissasp4600> Message-ID: <2916A6A4-1DB9-11D6-B1CF-003065AD94A4@mac.com> On Samstag, Februar 9, 2002, at 10:32 Uhr, Gary Dennis wrote: (software-bla skipped) > It wouldn't have more time later. This would be especially true if the > read is a BLOCKING read. If it is tell me now and I will give our > copy of > REV to charity ( though that wouldn't be very charitable). (more software-bla skipped) Hum, my e-mail is bvg at mac.com and im a poor lonesome scripter without a license for anything, so donations would be very kind, thank you. *making old dog like eyes, to increase chance of gift* sincerely yours bj?rnke von gierke PS: don't worry about the charityness of a REV-license, I would appreciate it anyway! (really!) -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text/enriched Size: 693 bytes Desc: not available URL: From iansummerfield at btconnect.com Sat Feb 9 19:10:01 2002 From: iansummerfield at btconnect.com (Ian Summerfield) Date: Sat Feb 9 19:10:01 2002 Subject: My Bold Script is slow In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On 9/2/02 11:01 pm, "Bj?rnke von Gierke" scribed: > Hey thats a cool solution, but unfortunately it will deselect the text! > As it is not working with the selection it is not applicable for me, > what is realy regretable, couse that's realy a fast solution. > Anyway, I have found a pretty fast solution myself, and am not longer in > need of a faster way of removing styles. If anyone else has a similar > problem, I added the script below: > > on mouseUp > put "bold" into myStyle > lock screen --this speeds things extremly up! > > repeat with myChar = the second word of the selectedChunk to \ > the fourth word of the selectedChunk Well I can't take any credit for the superb solution, but I can see it's easily modified not to deselect the text: on mouseUp put the selectedChunk into rememberChunk put the htmltext of the selectedChunk into var1 replace "" with "" in var1 replace "" with "" in var1 do "select "& rememberChunk set the htmltext of the selection to var1 do "select "& rememberChunk end mouseUp It wouldn't be too hard to rewrite it as a function taking parameters for bold, underline, etc. As a bonus the solution above is now able to work on whatever text is selected regardless of which field it's in! BTW: It's still bad coding practice to use calculations in a loop, each iteration of the loop will cause those calculations to have to be re-done, it will also make you code difficult to maintain. If for any reason in the future someone modifies your code to change the selection during one of the loop passes then "the fourth word of the selectedChunk" could change it's value - spelling disaster. I got my knuckles wrapped for doing such things when I first worked in Apple USA on Applelink Offline! Take my work for it, if you can get into the habit of putting things slightly longer it will be more efficient, but safer! Put the second word of the selectedChunk into startloop Put the fourth word of the selectedChunk into endloop repeat with myChar = startloop to endloop -- now it's safe to do things like "select line 1 to 5 of ..." End repeat -i- From iansummerfield at btconnect.com Sat Feb 9 19:15:01 2002 From: iansummerfield at btconnect.com (Ian Summerfield) Date: Sat Feb 9 19:15:01 2002 Subject: How to find the "blessed folder" In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On 9/2/02 5:44 pm, "yves COPPE" scribed: >> Use Mac OS 9 (or even Mac OS X). I want to create a preferences file for my >> application. I don't really want to put it in the default folder as that >> isn't very Mac like. How can I find the path to the proper blessed System >> Folder? I have multiple hard drives, so the answers isn't to take the root >> of the default folder and append "System Folder:Preferences"! That wouldn't >> work in every European language anyway. I'm sure there was an applescript >> command for it, but I can't find it in the reference guide. >> > In the transcript dictionary, look at the "specialfolderpath". > It answers just what you need > -- > Greetings. > > Yves COPPE Thank you, if the Revolution guys are reading this, I think the Transcript dictionaries "Find" command at the top of the window needs major improvements! I entered "System Folder" and pressed return and it just beeped, even though it's on that card! Am I not using it correctly? I just tried command-F to do the find too, that didn't find it either. How should I be looking this stuff up? From bvg at mac.com Sat Feb 9 19:27:01 2002 From: bvg at mac.com (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Bj=F6rnke_von_Gierke?=) Date: Sat Feb 9 19:27:01 2002 Subject: My Bold Script is slow In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <6DC19DA0-1DBC-11D6-B1CF-003065AD94A4@mac.com> On Sonntag, Februar 10, 2002, at 01:06 Uhr, Ian Summerfield wrote: > Well I can't take any credit for the superb solution, but I can see it's > easily modified not to deselect the text: > > on mouseUp > put the selectedChunk into rememberChunk > put the htmltext of the selectedChunk into var1 > replace "" with "" in var1 > replace "" with "" in var1 > do "select "& rememberChunk > set the htmltext of the selection to var1 > do "select "& rememberChunk > end mouseUp > It wouldn't be too hard to rewrite it as a function taking parameters > for > bold, underline, etc. As a bonus the solution above is now able to > work on > whatever text is selected regardless of which field it's in! wohoo this works!! thats probably the best (cleanest,fastest) version ive seen 'till now, I will certainly trash the other version for this one.. > BTW: It's still bad coding practice to use calculations in a loop, each > iteration of the loop will cause those calculations to have to be > re-done, > it will also make you code difficult to maintain. If for any reason in > the > future someone modifies your code to change the selection during one of > the > loop passes then "the fourth word of the selectedChunk" could change > it's > value - spelling disaster. I got my knuckles wrapped for doing such > things > when I first worked in Apple USA on Applelink Offline! Take my work > for it, > if you can get into the habit of putting things slightly longer it will > be > more efficient, but safer! > > Put the second word of the selectedChunk into startloop > Put the fourth word of the selectedChunk into endloop > repeat with myChar = startloop to endloop > -- now it's safe to do things like "select line 1 to 5 of ..." > End repeat Well, if you buy me the license for rev ( see above mailing by me on that subject), I will happily use variables whenever I define a loop, but unfortunately, im bound to the 10 line limit, and I can't define a additional variable without using an additional line, so I have to produce some more spaghetti-code :( sincerely yours bj?rnke von gierke -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text/enriched Size: 2206 bytes Desc: not available URL: From iansummerfield at btconnect.com Sat Feb 9 19:49:00 2002 From: iansummerfield at btconnect.com (Ian Summerfield) Date: Sat Feb 9 19:49:00 2002 Subject: Bug in Creating Distribution In-Reply-To: Message-ID: > Ian, the error is a user break concerning CarbonLib, and you've got a CODE > resource in that stack which apparently is getting executed when you open > the stack on a pre-OS-X system, causing the error. Removing the resource > allows the stack to be opened on 9.x, although the stack itself posts an > error asking for an application (I haven't looked closely enough at the > stack to figure out whether this is expected behavior or not). Since you > didn't mention this resource in either of your problem reports, I'm > assuming you didn't put it there, so you might try removing that resource > on your Classic build and see whether that solves the problem. > It's fixed now! I don't have a clue where that code resource came from, I don't recall putting it there. I removed it from the project with ResEdit as Revolution wouldn't let me. It now works as expected. If anyone has the need for a "keep it up" type utility, which also serves as a "keep it down" then it's online it's in fixed form. Thanks to you all for helping. From curry at kagi.com Sat Feb 9 19:59:01 2002 From: curry at kagi.com (curry at kagi.com) Date: Sat Feb 9 19:59:01 2002 Subject: Dictionary crash. In-Reply-To: <200202092307.SAA07703@www.runrev.com> Message-ID: When I had 32M physical memory, I had dictionary problems--incredible slowness opening the dictionary and closing Rev application, and frequent crashes after choosing a search term before the definition window opened. After upgrading memory, no problems. But you CAN still use Rev itself with only minor issues such as the delay on quitting, which is not bad, as long as you avoid the Dictionary; use any part of Help except it. How do you look up words? Download Metacard and use its help stack. The combined needs of Rev and Metacard running together will be less than Rev with its own dictionary. I never had a crash or problem doing that. Even if you have more than 32M physical memory, but are having problems, I suggest you give it a try and see if it works for you. (Down the road when you have some free time, extra memory is cheap and some stores install it for free! It makes the whole computer behave differently, and none more differently than Rev. -- :-) ) Curry Kenworthy From curry at kagi.com Sat Feb 9 20:02:01 2002 From: curry at kagi.com (curry at kagi.com) Date: Sat Feb 9 20:02:01 2002 Subject: Dictionary crash. In-Reply-To: Message-ID: I wrote: > The combined needs of Rev and > Metacard running together will be less than Rev with its own dictionary. Or, I suppose you could also open the MC dictionary stack from within Rev, and if it worked, that would use even less memory. Didn't ever think to try it, since double-clicking on the MC help stack was quicker. Curry Kenworthy From raney at metacard.com Sat Feb 9 20:12:01 2002 From: raney at metacard.com (Scott Raney) Date: Sat Feb 9 20:12:01 2002 Subject: Revolution and Task (handler) Overlap - Questions In-Reply-To: <200202092307.SAA07703@www.runrev.com> Message-ID: On Sat, 9 Feb 2002 "Gary Dennis" wrote: > Thanks for the calculation (the reason for my original email). I didn't say > that the application would keep the data,only that it would receive and > screen. As for the data spew, the 800 tasks might be intellectual property > of 400 companies. It would be some task to contact all 400, tell them that > I had written an application using a tool that was incapable of managing > the combined message flow and asking them to make changes in the messages > their software produced to compensate for the less-than-stellar performance > of my application. Seems to me if they expect *you* to do the montoring, you not only have the right to ask this, but the obligation. Your systems sound like they're all time-shared, making it unfair for one app to use more than it's quota just because it was sloppily coded. You oughta be charging them per byte that you have to deal with. > > My second thought: don't use a Windows operating system for something > > that calls for a more robust solution. You'll get much better > > bandwidth through a Linux or BSD box (or any other UNIX box, for that > > matter) in this type of application. > > Recall that the development tool is Revolution. Develop anywhere, run > anywhere; right? Thirty one years in software development tells me that you > develop on the least robust target platform, tune for the worst, and hope > that the customer can and will make the switch when the volume dictates. > If some of your following answers are true for all platforms, what real > difference would Linux make? Probably not much, maybe 30-50% increase in bandwidth. But if you really want to take your own advice, you should develop on MacOS 8/9, which has the worst networking bandwidth ;-) But you're right that a primary benefit of RR/MC is that you can easily switch to another platform if it turns out the one you're developing on isn't up to the demands you're placing on it. > My goal is to make a decision on a cross-platform development tool for my > company not become an OS propeller head. I just watched 2 guys with 8 years > combined Unix/Linux experience mud wrestle with a portable, SUSE Linux, and > a $65 PCMCIA card for two days before getting it to connect to the LAN. > Life is too short, then you die. Very true: obscure hardware is definitely not Linux's strength. But this is not the typical server-environment problem, security, reliability, and performance are (and all three of which are where UNIX is IMHO stronger than any Windows OS). > > > At this point in the development, all the test case product actually did > was > > > a.) get the message buffer, b.) break the buffer down into lines (crlf > > > delimited message lines, the lf corresponds to the Rev RETURN, the cr > part > > > of the message is discarded) and c.) place the message lines AFTER a > > > scrollable field defined on a card. After a line limit is reached (set > at > > > 3000 lines), the handler would delete the FIRST line in the field. > > > > Another suggestion: if you're really dealing with a lot of rapidly > > changing data, don't even put all of it in fields. Just put the part > > you need displayed in there and keep the rest in a variable. Use a > > scrollbar object to allow the user to select what part is shown. > > What am I missing? The field I'm using is scrollable. The idea was to give > the user a view anywhere inside the "retained" number of lines. Is there > some rev object that will give me live scrolling of variable content? No, you'd need to script that. Whether you need to do this optimization depends entirely on the amount of stuff you're putting into the field and how often you're changing it. > > > Question1. Is there a mechanism in Rev that causes all messages to be > > > stacked and executed in sequence as the targer handler exit is taken > for > > > the previous message? I had assumed that this is the case. Is there an > > > exception to this? Can you take a message off the message stack for a > > > handler and requeue it? > > > > Yes, no, and no. > > So once you send a message, that message is handled next regardless of other > messages that may be received? If you use plain "send", it's processed immediately. If you use "send .. in", it'll be put at the *end* of the queue, so all other events with the same time will get processed first. Messages that are generated from sockets have an effective delay of 0, but still are processed in the order they're received. > > This just seems like extra work to me. If the CPU has time to do it > > later (in addition to the extra overhead), why wouldn't it have even > > more time just to handle the data as it comes in? The only possible > > disadvantage I can see would be that you might get several "messages" > > in one read, but it seems to me this is likely to happen in any case > > so you've got to handle it anyway. Normal TCP buffering should take > > care of intermittent (lasting a second or two) overloads. If you > > really do need to do some "batch" processing on the data that takes a > > lot of CPU time, you should start thinking about offloading it to a > > different machine or at least to a different, lower priority, process > > if you must use only a single machine. > > > > It wouldn't have more time later. This would be especially true if the > read is a BLOCKING read. If it is tell me now and I will give our copy of > REV to charity ( though that wouldn't be very charitable). 99 % of the time > we get more than one message. One operator command issued on such a > mainframe could generate 16 to 32K of message output. The advantage of the > send (if and only if the read is not a blocking read) could be that the > read wait time could be used by handler that was the target of the send. I'm > trying to figure out if REV is a popgun UI tool that I'm trying to use for > Rhino. Synchronous thinking in what has to be an async environment won't > really buy me anything. If you use "read .. with message", it'll be async, and the message will be sent when the read completes. > > > Question 2. Does this approach give you any true overlap in the > > > receive-process cycle? It appeared to do so. My assumption is that the > > > engine is multithreaded in all cases with calls back to the engine > providing > > > the opportunity for handler overlap. > > > > Sockets are no longer threaded as of engine version 2.4.1 > > (subprocesses on Win32 are the only remaining threaded code in the > > engine, and that's only because the Win32 API is missing some key > > functionality in this area). We ripped all the threading stuff out > > because it was slow, significantly increased memory requirements, and > > was just less reliable in general. The apparent overlap is just > > because you're moving stuff from the front of the message queue to the > > end. But this operation isn't free, and just makes processing take > > longer overall. The more things you queue up with "send .. in", the > > worse the problem gets (keep in mind that it's got to sort through > > that queue each time through the main event loop). > > No longer threaded for Win32 or for all target platforms? Slower for Win32 > or all platforms? All platforms, all platforms. > Let me get this straight. You simply push the message to the end of the > queue so that... > > > read from socket x ... messagereceived > on messagereceived s,data > send " messageprocessor data" I don't see the point of using "send" here. Why not just process the data in that handler, or call another function in the same script to do it? > read from socket s .... messagereceived > end messagereceiver > > causes the sent message put to be pushed to the back of the queue until the > read is satisfied? No, the message is sent immediately. > Is the read truly a blocking read? If so, is it that > way for all platforms? If you're using "with message", it's async, but that's completely different from the "send" in your example. > Slow is relative, significantly increased memory would be expected, and just > less reliable would usually relate to the quality of the code. Maybe, but it's *always* the case that for a given amount of development and QA time, a multithreaded app will be less reliable than a non-threaded app. This is one of the dirty little secrets of buzzword-compliant software development. > Please tell > me that this was not done for all target platforms. We had planned to > recommend deployment under OSX. If this was done for all platforms, it > strikes me that you had some stellar goals that you gave up on. We just expected it to work with decent performance and reliability. To be honest, 90% of the problems we had with threading were on the Mac, where threading is "cooperative" (aka "a joke"). But we did have a few really nasty race-condition type problems on Win32 which are just standard behavior for multithreaded development which is why we dropped threading there too. And as I said before, performance increased and memory usage decreased as a bonus. > > > Question 3. Is there some way to cause Rev to execute one handler at a > > > higher priority than other handlers? > > > > No. > > > Seriously? Not even the ability to specify that execution is ASYNC as it > relates to other handlers? The only distinction is between "send .. in" and "read .. with message" vs. those same commands without the additional parameter specifying async operation. > > PS: I'd also recommend sending your WWW site designers out for > > "reeducation": I find it personally offensive that you can't even view > > www.mantissa.com except on a Windows system (it won't even open with > > browsers other than IE, and is all garbaged up on Macs even with IE). > > You'll not likely be getting any business from us, or any other users > > of UNIX or Mac systems, if you stick with this policy. > > > > We design and write software, not web sites. I guess you should probably just shut down the site entirely, seeing as how it isn't one of your "core competencies". As a bonus, you'd save some money too. > Besides, if we had everything > (including web designers), where would we put it (or them)? If we did sell > our products to UNIX, Linux, or non-i.e. customers we would owe them a > refund since we have no such products. However, if those platforms are ever > supported, we will change the site. Until then, whenever you want to be > personally offended please visit our site. Hey, you never know where your customers are going to be coming from. We may not be needing whatever service you're offering, but then when one of our customers asks for a recommendation for a particular kind of service (which happens about every day), I won't be recommending yours because despite trying to find out, I still don't know what it is. Worse, if your company's name happens to come up, my first response is going to be how poor its understanding of marketing is and why that means it'd be a poor bet for long-term survival. Regards, Scott ******************************************************** Scott Raney raney at metacard.com http://www.metacard.com MetaCard: You know, there's an easier way to do that... From shaosean at unitz.ca Sat Feb 9 20:19:01 2002 From: shaosean at unitz.ca (Shao Sean) Date: Sat Feb 9 20:19:01 2002 Subject: Rotatable fields? References: Message-ID: <000901c1b1d0$8536f590$88b15bd1@dreamlanpc> > Not if you specify the rect. the rect will take a snapshot of whatever is visible, how it is visible (at least from what i've read and from the few tests i've done with the command).. > HyperCard has a text drawing tool you know. yup.. really hope MC gets it soon > What would happen to the cross-platform utility if you just copied text > drawn with HC and pasted it into a Rev image? i need a cross-platform, self-contained solution.. i have no idea what software will be running on the end-users' machines.. plus i can't use pre-generated text because i have no idea what any of the text will be.. personally i'll probably work something out cause i'm also going to need foreign language support (whee.. writing a unicode parser will be fun).. From speaker1 at bellsouth.net Sat Feb 9 21:15:01 2002 From: speaker1 at bellsouth.net (Darrell Nobles) Date: Sat Feb 9 21:15:01 2002 Subject: Suse Linux install problem Message-ID: <1013307020.27723.2.camel@linux> I just downloaded Rev- on a Suse 7.3 box, and started the install- and get a bus error- when I run ./ revolution from the directory. Any ideas. Darrell From drvaughan55 at mac.com Sat Feb 9 21:42:01 2002 From: drvaughan55 at mac.com (David Vaughan) Date: Sat Feb 9 21:42:01 2002 Subject: Revolution and Task (handler) Overlap In-Reply-To: <000e01c1b1b1$4047f570$2a45fea9@mantissasp4600> Message-ID: <3D1BD506-1DCF-11D6-B9AE-000393598038@mac.com> > Gary In relation to your subset of queries below, my tests show that Rev message handlers are sequenced (invariant) and blocking. The socket read has a variety of escapes of course (a string, a character count, a timeout) but appears technically to be a blocking read. So Bj?rnke may be in luck with his free licence, or you may contemplate some redesign rather than assuming that blocking = the end of programming life as we know it. For 25KB/s of data potentially receivable I would in any case consider constructing a small preprocessor to filter the high priority messages (which seems to be your high volume requirement) and pass these to Rev targets for further manipulation and presentation. This should break your basic speed bottleneck while maintaining the bulk of your application in a productive environment. It would not be the first nor will be the last such approach in computing. If at this point you are still unhappy with Rev then, recollecting that you were kind enough to note my earlier jocular Latin note, de gustibus non disputandum. :-) cheers David > So once you send a message, that message is handled next regardless of > other > messages that may be received? >>> >>> Question 2. Does this approach give you any true overlap in the >>> receive-process cycle? It appeared to do so. My assumption is that >>> the >>> engine is multithreaded in all cases with calls back to the engine > providing >>> the opportunity for handler overlap. > > Let me get this straight. You simply push the message to the end of the > queue so that... > > > read from socket x ... messagereceived > on messagereceived s,data > send " messageprocessor data" > > read from socket s .... messagereceived > end messagereceiver > > causes the sent message put to be pushed to the back of the queue > until the > read is satisfied? Is the read truly a blocking read? If so, is it > that > way for all platforms? From iansummerfield at btconnect.com Sat Feb 9 23:13:01 2002 From: iansummerfield at btconnect.com (Ian Summerfield) Date: Sat Feb 9 23:13:01 2002 Subject: CD's, new drives, labels In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On 9/2/02 5:59 pm, "Richard D. Miller" scribed: > I'd like to hear thoughts on attaching labels to CD's. I know there used to > be no particular problem printing out CD labels and attaching them to CD's > (for commercial distribution), but now with the really fast CD readers (20+ > speed), I've heard it may be a bigger issue because of tighter tolerances. > Any opinions? Any direct experience? > > Thanks. > Richard Miller So far as I know all Mac CD players can cope with poorly balanced CD's. Those CD's which are spun really fast and are out of balance can cause vibration and therefore the laser can't read the disk correctly with it bouncing around so much, but the firmware on the drives is programmed to slow the spin speed down in increments right to 1:1 if need be. You can hear it happen, usually the CD buzzes, then stops buzzing as the drive slows down and mounts ok, it may read slower. Now I don't know if this is true in the world of other machines but I would imagine it probably is. I guess if performance of the CD you're cutting is of great importance you'd better mark it with a pen instead and therefore reduce the risk of upsetting the balance of the CD. If performance isn't an issue then it shouldn't be a problem. I know one of my customers do graphic design and all work is sent out on CDR's with stick on labels. They've never had any complaints. -i- From iansummerfield at btconnect.com Sun Feb 10 00:12:01 2002 From: iansummerfield at btconnect.com (Ian Summerfield) Date: Sun Feb 10 00:12:01 2002 Subject: My Bold Script is slow In-Reply-To: <6DC19DA0-1DBC-11D6-B1CF-003065AD94A4@mac.com> Message-ID: On 10/2/02 12:23 am, "Bj?rnke von Gierke" scribed: > > Well, if you buy me the license for rev ( see above mailing by me on that > subject), I will happily use variables whenever I define a loop, but > unfortunately, im bound to the 10 line limit, and I can't define a additional > variable without using an additional line, so I have to produce some more > spaghetti-code :( > > sincerely yours > bj?rnke von gierke You know I hadn't thought of that limit! Isn't it bad that Revolution forces bad programming techniques? From jacque at hyperactivesw.com Sun Feb 10 00:35:01 2002 From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay) Date: Sun Feb 10 00:35:01 2002 Subject: Dictionary crash. References: <200202100113.UAA12307@www.runrev.com> Message-ID: <3C6605BE.183AF710@hyperactivesw.com> curry at kagi.com wrote: > > When I had 32M physical memory, I had dictionary problems--incredible > slowness opening the dictionary and closing Rev application, and frequent > crashes after choosing a search term before the definition window opened. > > After upgrading memory, no problems. I've got 196 megs with 20 megs alone allocated to Rev. I wasn't getting the crash in Rev 1.1, so I don't think RAM is the problem. > The combined needs of > Rev and Metacard running together will be less than Rev with its own > dictionary. I never had a crash or problem doing that. I routinely run both at the same time. Since my full license is for MetaCard, I use Rev as an auxilliary system in order to work with clients who are using it, or (mostly) to reference the dictionary because it is so much better than MetaCard's. So it's important to me that the dictionary doesn't crash. I heard recently that on MacOS it is sometimes detrimental to allocate too much RAM to MC/Rev. Maybe I'll take it back down a notch and see what happens. -- Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com From jeanne at runrev.com Sun Feb 10 00:50:01 2002 From: jeanne at runrev.com (Jeanne A. E. DeVoto) Date: Sun Feb 10 00:50:01 2002 Subject: How to find the "blessed folder" In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: At 4:11 PM -0800 2/9/2002, Ian Summerfield wrote: >Thank you, if the Revolution guys are reading this, I think the Transcript >dictionaries "Find" command at the top of the window needs major >improvements! I entered "System Folder" and pressed return and it just >beeped, even though it's on that card! Am I not using it correctly? I don't think you are, no. (That field finds Transcript terms - it doesn't do a full-text search - and "System Folder" isn't a Transcript term.) -- Jeanne A. E. DeVoto ~ jeanne at runrev.com http://www.runrev.com/ Runtime Revolution Limited - Power to the Developer! From jeanne at runrev.com Sun Feb 10 00:50:12 2002 From: jeanne at runrev.com (Jeanne A. E. DeVoto) Date: Sun Feb 10 00:50:12 2002 Subject: Image Manipulation (was Re: Rotatable fields?) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: At 3:30 PM -0800 2/9/2002, Ken Norris (dialup) wrote: >work on Macs. Since the dictionary lists things in alpha order its sometimes >hard to find relative terms, so I'm making a stack that groups lists of >relative terms. What I need is access to the dictionary scripts, so I can >show the definition/example fields from those lists. > >When you're trying to learn a new language and are dealing with a specific >set of tasks, like manipulating images and graphics, it's maddening to have >to search the whole dictionary for proper terms and syntax. Have you checked the "See Also" lists for each term? I think you'll find they'll lead you quickly to related terms (and e.g. the See Also list for menu items links to the Transcript equivalent, where there is one). We realize that better navigation is needed, and there will be a categorical list/"Table of Contents" listing all documentation topics by category, as well as an index, in 1.1.1. -- Jeanne A. E. DeVoto ~ jeanne at runrev.com http://www.runrev.com/ Runtime Revolution Limited - Power to the Developer! From drvaughan55 at mac.com Sun Feb 10 02:01:01 2002 From: drvaughan55 at mac.com (David Vaughan) Date: Sun Feb 10 02:01:01 2002 Subject: Read from socket async? Message-ID: <898C9850-1DF3-11D6-9E31-000393598038@mac.com> In a post which I accidentally lost Scott Raney said to Gary Denis that "read from...with message" is asynchronous. In what respect, please? I ran the following script local lcounter on mouseUp global sname put zero into lcounter repeat 10 read from socket sname until return with message "dataAdded" add 1 to lcounter put lcounter into field "f2" end repeat end mouseUp on dataAdded portName,info wait for 1 seconds put info after field "f1" subtract 1 from lcounter put lcounter into field "f2" end dataAdded Consistent with other behaviour of Rev, the counter visibly counted up to ten in the repeat loop then counted back down again, as the stacked "dataAdded" messages were executed after the mouseUp handler finally exited. I would call this synchronous behaviour, consistent with the blocking behaviour of all Rev handlers. It is exactly as if one did not use the msgname option but followed the "read" with "send dataAdded && it to me". Am I correct, Rev people? Incidentally, my building this test was somewhat impeded by omissions in the documentation. The stated syntax in Transcript Help is: read from socket ... [with message msgname] and under "Notes:" says: the parameter is the socketID You will notice in my script that there are two implicit parameters to the message, and that this is undocumented on the Help card. Also, it is undocumented that "it", which normally contains the data after the read, does not when you use the msgname option. Would you mind adding these to your copious list please, Jeanne? regards David -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text/enriched Size: 1684 bytes Desc: not available URL: From pixelbird at interisland.net Sun Feb 10 02:48:01 2002 From: pixelbird at interisland.net (Ken Norris (dialup)) Date: Sun Feb 10 02:48:01 2002 Subject: script of "transcript dictionary" stadk In-Reply-To: Message-ID: on 2/9/02 10:41 AM, yves COPPE at yvescoppe at skynet.be wrote: > Hello, > > > In the "revolution documentation" stack, when you click on transcript > language, you come on the "transcript language dictionary" page. > There you have n option popup btn, a fld and below this fld a scrolling fld. > I'd like to know (for a stack of mine) the script of the fld in which > we may type in, with the two options > - scroll to > or > filter (of the popUp btn near him). > > I've tried to edit this stack to access the script but I cannot. ---------- Ahhh...I 'feel your pain'. I want to group dictionary terms of like kind together in lists, e.g., file manipulation, image and graphic manipulation, etc., but I need to access the definitions/examples directly the way it happens in the dictionary, but no luck so far. Is there a way to script access to the dictionary definitions and examples as I described above? Best regards, Ken N. From drvaughan55 at mac.com Sun Feb 10 02:58:01 2002 From: drvaughan55 at mac.com (David Vaughan) Date: Sun Feb 10 02:58:01 2002 Subject: Add to: Read from socket async? Message-ID: <8BD32A66-1DFB-11D6-9E31-000393598038@mac.com> > When I wrote > I ran the following script perhaps I should add that to facilitate my TCP socket testing my son whipped up a <7KB Java class which opens a server socket, waits for a connection (which event it indicates) and then sends sequential data at a rate you specify (or flat out) until you close the port. Handy for testing in loopback mode or from another machine. If anyone would like a copy for testing of your own, write to me off-list please. regards David From jeanne at runrev.com Sun Feb 10 03:01:01 2002 From: jeanne at runrev.com (Jeanne A. E. DeVoto) Date: Sun Feb 10 03:01:01 2002 Subject: script of "transcript dictionary" stadk In-Reply-To: Message-ID: At 10:41 AM -0800 2/9/2002, yves COPPE wrote: >In the "revolution documentation" stack, when you click on transcript >language, you come on the "transcript language dictionary" page. >There you have n option popup btn, a fld and below this fld a scrolling fld. >I'd like to know (for a stack of mine) the script of the fld in which >we may type in, with the two options >- scroll to >or >filter (of the popUp btn near him). > >I've tried to edit this stack to access the script but I cannot. You should be able to get to this script using the contextual menu shortcut (command-control-shift-click the field). You might first need to turn on the option "Contextual menus work in Revolution windows" in the Preferences. Also you can always type "edit script of the mousecontrol" into the message box, move the pointer over the object, then press Return. In case you still cannot get to it, here is the script: local lTimerID -- variable holding the message ID of the delayed revDocsFilterTerms message on rawKeyUp if the label of button "Filter Type" is "Scroll to:" then lock screen if me is empty then -- scroll back to top set the hilitedLines of field "List" to 1 else -- scroll to first term matching what's typed at its start put lineOffset(return & me, field "List") + 1 into currentLine if currentLine > 1 then -- typed field matches a line set the hilitedLines of field "List" to currentLine set the scroll of field "List" to \ (currentLine - 1) * the effective textHeight of field "List" end if end if unlock screen else -- "Filter with:" if me is empty then -- show all terms if "revDocsFilterTerms" is in the pendingMessages then cancel lTimerID set the htmlText of field "List" to the completeHtmlContents of field "List" else if "revDocsFilterTerms" is not in the pendingMessages then send "revDocsFilterTerms" to me in 200 milliseconds put the result into lTimerID else cancel lTimerID send "revDocsFilterTerms" to me in 200 milliseconds put the result into lTimerID end if end if set the hilitedLines of field "List" to 1 end if end rawKeyUp on returnInField if the hilitedLines of field "List" is empty then set the hilitedLines of field "List" to 1 send "mouseDown" to field "List" end returnInField on enterInField returnInField end enterInField on revDocsFilterTerms lock screen lock messages set the htmlText of field "List" to the completeHtmlContents of field "List" put the text of field "List" into tPlainLines put the text of me into textToFilterOn filter field "List" with "*" & the text of me & "*" set the wholeMatches to true repeat for each line thisLine in field "List" if textToFilterOn is not in word 1 to -2 of thisLine then next repeat put line lineOffset(thisLine,tPlainLines) of the completeHtmlContents of field "List" \ & return after filteredListOfTerms end repeat replace (return & return) with return in filteredListOfTerms set the htmlText of field "list" to filteredListOfTerms if line 1 of field "List" is empty then delete line 1 of field "List" set the hilitedLines of field "List" to 1 unlock screen unlock messages end revDocsFilterTerms -- Jeanne A. E. DeVoto ~ jeanne at runrev.com http://www.runrev.com/ Runtime Revolution Limited - Power to the Developer! From jeanne at runrev.com Sun Feb 10 03:01:11 2002 From: jeanne at runrev.com (Jeanne A. E. DeVoto) Date: Sun Feb 10 03:01:11 2002 Subject: Read from socket async? In-Reply-To: <898C9850-1DF3-11D6-9E31-000393598038@mac.com> Message-ID: At 10:58 PM -0800 2/9/2002, David Vaughan wrote: >Incidentally, my building this test was somewhat impeded by >omissions in the documentation. The stated syntax in Transcript Help is: > read from socket ... [with message msgname] >and under "Notes:" says: > the parameter is the socketID >You will notice in my script that there are two implicit parameters to >the message, and that this is undocumented on the Help card. Also, >it is undocumented that "it", which normally contains the data after the >read, does not when you use the msgname option. Would you mind >adding these to your copious list please, Jeanne? Done. Thanks for the report! -- Jeanne A. E. DeVoto ~ jeanne at runrev.com http://www.runrev.com/ Runtime Revolution Limited - Power to the Developer! From mark_mitchell at kmug.org Sun Feb 10 03:17:01 2002 From: mark_mitchell at kmug.org (Mark Mitchell) Date: Sun Feb 10 03:17:01 2002 Subject: graphic radio buttons In-Reply-To: <200202090328.WAA21345@www.runrev.com> References: <200202090328.WAA21345@www.runrev.com> Message-ID: use-revolution at lists.runrev.com writes: I don't have buttons, I have graphics. Like a square or circle or polygon. Any ideas? I do this sort of thing all the time. Every selection just DEselects all objects in the group prior to selecting the clicked on object on mouseUp repeat with i = XX to YY set the selected of object i to false end repeat set the selected of me to true end mouseUp HTH mm From gary.dennis at mantissa.com Sun Feb 10 04:34:01 2002 From: gary.dennis at mantissa.com (Gary Dennis) Date: Sun Feb 10 04:34:01 2002 Subject: Revolution and Task (handler) Overlap References: <3D1BD506-1DCF-11D6-B9AE-000393598038@mac.com> Message-ID: <001701c1b1f9$38706e70$2a45fea9@mantissasp4600> David, I appreciate your candid informative response. I love this product (How could you not?). However those occasions on which we have gotten our butts kicked the highest have been because we didn't have good answers (for our products) to questions like I have been asking about Revolution. "Still Unhappy" is not completely accurate since I have been so happy that I have given practically everyone in our Engineering group a demonstration on the product. Because I am so impressed, I want to find a way to use this product. Is it possible to have the pre-processor you suggest executed from within the same stack as a separate task or is it strictly stack = task for REV? What I am seeking is the ability to control the task you suggest and the other task that will be used to display and query from the same UI. I don't mind the suggestion of some exotic programming approach as long as control and reliability is not compromised. Is that possible with REV? Thanks and Best Regards ----- Original Message ----- From: "David Vaughan" To: Sent: Saturday, February 09, 2002 8:38 PM Subject: Re: Revolution and Task (handler) Overlap > Gary In relation to your subset of queries below, my tests show that Rev message handlers are sequenced (invariant) and blocking. The socket read has a variety of escapes of course (a string, a character count, a timeout) but appears technically to be a blocking read. So Bj?rnke may be in luck with his free licence, or you may contemplate some redesign rather than assuming that blocking = the end of programming life as we know it. For 25KB/s of data potentially receivable I would in any case consider constructing a small preprocessor to filter the high priority messages (which seems to be your high volume requirement) and pass these to Rev targets for further manipulation and presentation. This should break your basic speed bottleneck while maintaining the bulk of your application in a productive environment. It would not be the first nor will be the last such approach in computing. If at this point you are still unhappy with Rev then, recollecting that you were kind enough to note my earlier jocular Latin note, de gustibus non disputandum. :-) cheers David > So once you send a message, that message is handled next regardless of > other > messages that may be received? >>> >>> Question 2. Does this approach give you any true overlap in the >>> receive-process cycle? It appeared to do so. My assumption is that >>> the >>> engine is multithreaded in all cases with calls back to the engine > providing >>> the opportunity for handler overlap. > > Let me get this straight. You simply push the message to the end of the > queue so that... > > > read from socket x ... messagereceived > on messagereceived s,data > send " messageprocessor data" > > read from socket s .... messagereceived > end messagereceiver > > causes the sent message put to be pushed to the back of the queue > until the > read is satisfied? Is the read truly a blocking read? If so, is it > that > way for all platforms? _______________________________________________ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution at lists.runrev.com http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution From pixelbird at interisland.net Sun Feb 10 04:38:00 2002 From: pixelbird at interisland.net (Ken Norris (dialup)) Date: Sun Feb 10 04:38:00 2002 Subject: Dictionary crash. In-Reply-To: <3C6605BE.183AF710@hyperactivesw.com> Message-ID: on 2/9/02 9:31 PM, J. Landman Gay at jacque at hyperactivesw.com wrote: > curry at kagi.com wrote: >> >> When I had 32M physical memory, I had dictionary problems--incredible >> slowness opening the dictionary and closing Rev application, and frequent >> crashes after choosing a search term before the definition window opened. ---------- This is exactly what it's doing in my PowerBook. It has 48 mb, and can only go to 64 mb. The extra 16 mb memory involves changing out a card, and is very difficult to locate. ---------- > I've got 196 megs with 20 megs alone allocated to Rev. I wasn't getting > the crash in Rev 1.1, so I don't think RAM is the problem. ---------- I have 20480 K (same as yours?), which is the suggested value. Has the problem, though. ---------- > I heard recently that on MacOS it is sometimes detrimental to allocate > too much RAM to MC/Rev. Maybe I'll take it back down a notch and see > what happens. ---------- Under what conditions would this be so? Best regards, Ken N. From pixelbird at interisland.net Sun Feb 10 04:49:01 2002 From: pixelbird at interisland.net (Ken Norris (dialup)) Date: Sun Feb 10 04:49:01 2002 Subject: Image Manipulation (was Re: Rotatable fields?) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: on 2/9/02 9:26 PM, Jeanne A. E. DeVoto at jeanne at runrev.com wrote: > Have you checked the "See Also" lists for each term? I think you'll find > they'll lead you quickly to related terms (and e.g. the See Also list for > menu items links to the Transcript equivalent, where there is one). ---------- Still rather slow for me, though. ---------- > We realize that better navigation is needed, and there will be a > categorical list/"Table of Contents" listing all documentation topics by > category, as well as an index, in 1.1.1. ---------- That's excellent news! I'm doing it as I go, so you'll probably beat me to it. I'm going to keep it though, because I'll also add comments and little demos. Best regards, Ken N. From pixelbird at interisland.net Sun Feb 10 05:20:01 2002 From: pixelbird at interisland.net (Ken Norris (dialup)) Date: Sun Feb 10 05:20:01 2002 Subject: Rotatable fields? In-Reply-To: <000901c1b1d0$8536f590$88b15bd1@dreamlanpc> Message-ID: on 2/9/02 5:16 PM, Shao Sean at shaosean at unitz.ca wrote: > personally i'll probably work something out cause i'm also going to need > foreign language support (whee.. writing a unicode parser will be fun).. ---------- Indeed...actually, I think I just read something about that just recently, so there may already be some examples for you, but I'm sifting through about 80 emails/day in addition to writing scripts, creating and manipulating images and files, etc. I'm really sleepy at the moment. I'll hang on to the deleted email file for a day and run a check on it tomorrow. Best regards, Ken N. From dcragg at lacscentre.co.uk Sun Feb 10 06:17:00 2002 From: dcragg at lacscentre.co.uk (Dave Cragg) Date: Sun Feb 10 06:17:00 2002 Subject: Read from socket async? In-Reply-To: <898C9850-1DF3-11D6-9E31-000393598038@mac.com> References: <898C9850-1DF3-11D6-9E31-000393598038@mac.com> Message-ID: At 5:58 pm +1100 10/2/02, David Vaughan wrote: >In a post which I accidentally lost Scott Raney said to Gary Denis >that "read from...with message" is asynchronous. In what respect, >please? > >I ran the following script > >local lcounter > >on mouseUp > global sname > put zero into lcounter > repeat 10 > read from socket sname until return with message "dataAdded" > add 1 to lcounter > put lcounter into field "f2" > end repeat >end mouseUp > >on dataAdded portName,info > wait for 1 seconds > put info after field "f1" > subtract 1 from lcounter > put lcounter into field "f2" >end dataAdded > >Consistent with other behaviour of Rev, the counter visibly counted >up to ten in the repeat loop then counted back down again, as the >stacked "dataAdded" messages were executed after the mouseUp handler >finally exited. I would call this synchronous behaviour, consistent >with the blocking behaviour of all Rev handlers. It is exactly as if >one did not use the msgname option but followed the "read" with >"send dataAdded && it to me". Am I correct, Rev people? I think one other proviso as to be aded to Scott's description of the asynch nature of and commands. Any queued messages will only execute after any currently running handler completes. (Please correct me if I've got this wrong.) So in this simple example, you'll have to wait 1 second for the doIt handler to complete. on mouseUp send "doIt" to me in 10 milliseconds put 1 wait 1 second end mouseUp on doIt put 2 end doIt In your example, your repeat loop must complete before any of the dataAdded messages will finish. This says to me that "read .. with message" is truly non-blocking, i.e. the handler carries on. It may not be what you want, but I prefer the reassurance of knowing that a handler will complete before any queued stuff is going to happen. (I find asynch stuff scary at the best of times.) And in those cases where you want more control over the sequencing, there are the "wait until ... with messages" and "wait for messages" commands. For example, try this slightly modified version of your script (untried): on mouseUp global sname put zero into lcounter repeat 10 read from socket sname until return with message "dataAdded" add 1 to lcounter wait until lcCounter = (lcCounter -1) with messages ##this is the block put lcounter into field "f2" end repeat end mouseUp on dataAdded portName,info wait for 1 seconds put info after field "f1" subtract 1 from lcounter put lcounter into field "f2" end dataAdded Cheers Dave Cragg From drvaughan55 at mac.com Sun Feb 10 07:01:01 2002 From: drvaughan55 at mac.com (David Vaughan) Date: Sun Feb 10 07:01:01 2002 Subject: Read from socket async? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <697B946A-1E1D-11D6-9E31-000393598038@mac.com> Dave My test and conclusions are valid. Their implication and result is that the line I highlighted in your script below will cause your repeat loop NEVER to terminate. You see, the message(s) "dataAdded" are only queued by the read handler, not executed until the entire mouseUp completes. My own script also queues messages in the same way, but completes, after which all the queued messages (one for each read with data) are then successively run. This, of course, is Gary's problem as well. How to write an efficient input loop which can receive data fast, process it, and do so in the background so it will also respond to user commands (I presume). regards David > snip > on mouseUp > global sname > put zero into lcounter > repeat 10 > read from socket sname until return with message "dataAdded" > add 1 to lcounter > wait until lcCounter = (lcCounter -1) with messages ##this is the > block > put lcounter into field "f2" > end repeat > end mouseUp > snip > > Cheers > Dave Cragg > _______________________________________________ > use-revolution mailing list > use-revolution at lists.runrev.com > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution > -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text/enriched Size: 1279 bytes Desc: not available URL: From drvaughan55 at mac.com Sun Feb 10 07:03:01 2002 From: drvaughan55 at mac.com (David Vaughan) Date: Sun Feb 10 07:03:01 2002 Subject: Read from socket async? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <697B946A-1E1D-11D6-9E31-000393598038@mac.com> Dave My test and conclusions are valid. Their implication and result is that the line I highlighted in your script below will cause your repeat loop NEVER to terminate. You see, the message(s) "dataAdded" are only queued by the read handler, not executed until the entire mouseUp completes. My own script also queues messages in the same way, but completes, after which all the queued messages (one for each read with data) are then successively run. This, of course, is Gary's problem as well. How to write an efficient input loop which can receive data fast, process it, and do so in the background so it will also respond to user commands (I presume). regards David > snip > on mouseUp > global sname > put zero into lcounter > repeat 10 > read from socket sname until return with message "dataAdded" > add 1 to lcounter > wait until lcCounter = (lcCounter -1) with messages ##this is the > block > put lcounter into field "f2" > end repeat > end mouseUp > snip > > Cheers > Dave Cragg > _______________________________________________ > use-revolution mailing list > use-revolution at lists.runrev.com > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution > -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text/enriched Size: 1279 bytes Desc: not available URL: From yvescoppe at skynet.be Sun Feb 10 08:11:00 2002 From: yvescoppe at skynet.be (yves COPPE) Date: Sun Feb 10 08:11:00 2002 Subject: script of "transcript dictionary" stadk In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: >You should be able to get to this script using the contextual menu shortcut >(command-control-shift-click the field). You might first need to turn on >the option "Contextual menus work in Revolution windows" in the Preferences. > >Also you can always type "edit script of the mousecontrol" into the message >box, move the pointer over the object, then press Return. > >In case you still cannot get to it, here is the script: > > >local lTimerID -- variable holding the message ID of the delayed >revDocsFilterTerms message > >on rawKeyUp > if the label of button "Filter Type" is "Scroll to:" then > lock screen > if me is empty then -- scroll back to top > set the hilitedLines of field "List" to 1 > else -- scroll to first term matching what's typed at its start > put lineOffset(return & me, field "List") + 1 into currentLine > if currentLine > 1 then -- typed field matches a line > set the hilitedLines of field "List" to currentLine > set the scroll of field "List" to \ > (currentLine - 1) * the effective textHeight of field "List" > end if > end if > unlock screen > else -- "Filter with:" > if me is empty then -- show all terms > if "revDocsFilterTerms" is in the pendingMessages then cancel lTimerID > set the htmlText of field "List" to the completeHtmlContents of field >"List" > else > if "revDocsFilterTerms" is not in the pendingMessages then > send "revDocsFilterTerms" to me in 200 milliseconds > put the result into lTimerID > else > cancel lTimerID > send "revDocsFilterTerms" to me in 200 milliseconds > put the result into lTimerID > end if > end if > set the hilitedLines of field "List" to 1 > end if >end rawKeyUp > >on returnInField > if the hilitedLines of field "List" is empty then set the hilitedLines of >field "List" to 1 > send "mouseDown" to field "List" >end returnInField > >on enterInField > returnInField >end enterInField > >on revDocsFilterTerms > lock screen > lock messages > set the htmlText of field "List" to the completeHtmlContents of field "List" > put the text of field "List" into tPlainLines > put the text of me into textToFilterOn > filter field "List" with "*" & the text of me & "*" > set the wholeMatches to true > repeat for each line thisLine in field "List" > if textToFilterOn is not in word 1 to -2 of thisLine then next repeat > put line lineOffset(thisLine,tPlainLines) of the completeHtmlContents >of field "List" \ > & return after filteredListOfTerms > end repeat > replace (return & return) with return in filteredListOfTerms > set the htmlText of field "list" to filteredListOfTerms > if line 1 of field "List" is empty then delete line 1 of field "List" > set the hilitedLines of field "List" to 1 > unlock screen > unlock messages >end revDocsFilterTerms > >-- Thank you very much, it fills just my needs -- From dcragg at lacscentre.co.uk Sun Feb 10 08:22:01 2002 From: dcragg at lacscentre.co.uk (Dave Cragg) Date: Sun Feb 10 08:22:01 2002 Subject: Read from socket async? In-Reply-To: <697B946A-1E1D-11D6-9E31-000393598038@mac.com> References: <697B946A-1E1D-11D6-9E31-000393598038@mac.com> Message-ID: At 10:57 pm +1100 10/2/02, David Vaughan wrote: >Dave > >My test and conclusions are valid. Their implication and result is >that the line I highlighted in your script below will cause your >repeat loop NEVER to terminate. You see, the message(s) "dataAdded" >are only queued by the read handler, not executed until the entire >mouseUp completes. My own script also queues messages in the same >way, but completes, after which all the queued messages (one for >each read with data) are then successively run. Unfair!! It doesn't terminate because I hadn't had coffee and I didn't have my glasses on. This is what I really typed. :) on mouseUp global sname put zero into lcounter repeat 10 read from socket sname until return with message "dataAdded" add 1 to lcounter put lcounter - 1 into tCounter wait until tCounter = lcounter with messages ##this is the block put lcounter into field "f2" end repeat end mouseUp Confession. I didn't set up a socket to test. I used "send .. in" instead, but the principle is the same. This is what I actually tested. Try commenting out the "wait ... with messages" line to see the difference. local lcounter on mouseUp put zero into lcounter repeat 10 send "dataAdded" to me in 10 milliseconds add 1 to lcounter put lcounter put lcounter -1 into tCounter wait until tCounter = lCounter with messages ## end repeat end mouseUp on dataAdded wait for 1 seconds subtract 1 from lcounter put lcounter end dataAdded Cheers Dave Cragg From gcanyon at inspiredlogic.com Sun Feb 10 12:12:34 2002 From: gcanyon at inspiredlogic.com (Geoff Canyon) Date: Sun Feb 10 12:12:34 2002 Subject: My Bold Script is slow In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: At 12:06 AM +0000 2/10/02, Ian Summerfield wrote: >BTW: It's still bad coding practice to use calculations in a loop, each >iteration of the loop will cause those calculations to have to be re-done, >it will also make you code difficult to maintain. If for any reason in the >future someone modifies your code to change the selection during one of the >loop passes then "the fourth word of the selectedChunk" could change it's >value - spelling disaster. I got my knuckles wrapped for doing such things >when I first worked in Apple USA on Applelink Offline! Take my work for it, >if you can get into the habit of putting things slightly longer it will be >more efficient, but safer! Revolution calculates the start and end values only at the beginning of the loop. So while from a coding-style standpoint it's still a good idea, programatically it's no problem. At 5:08 AM +0000 2/10/02, Ian Summerfield wrote: >On 10/2/02 12:23 am, "Bj?rnke von Gierke" scribed: > >> >> Well, if you buy me the license for rev ( see above mailing by me on that >> subject), I will happily use variables whenever I define a loop, but >> unfortunately, im bound to the 10 line limit, and I can't define a additional >> variable without using an additional line, so I have to produce some more >> spaghetti-code :( >> >> sincerely yours >> bj?rnke von gierke > >You know I hadn't thought of that limit! Isn't it bad that Revolution >forces bad programming techniques? I think of it in just the opposite way: isn't it great that Revolution provides this _free_ tool for people to use? regards, Geoff From gcanyon at inspiredlogic.com Sun Feb 10 12:14:01 2002 From: gcanyon at inspiredlogic.com (Geoff Canyon) Date: Sun Feb 10 12:14:01 2002 Subject: Dictionary crash. In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: At 6:52 PM -0600 2/9/02, curry at kagi.com wrote: >(Down the road when you have some free time, extra memory is cheap and some >stores install it for free! It makes the whole computer behave differently, >and none more differently than Rev. -- :-) ) A memory upgrade makes a lot of sense. For those who either can't or won't upgrade, MetaCard is an alternative. It's based on the same engine as Revolution, but the development environment is less memory-hungry. (the solutions you create will need the same memory regardless of the environment you use.) gc From yvescoppe at skynet.be Sun Feb 10 15:07:01 2002 From: yvescoppe at skynet.be (yves COPPE) Date: Sun Feb 10 15:07:01 2002 Subject: thumbnail Message-ID: Hello, I have a substack with many cards. I have to perform some work on each card. I'd like a thumbnail showing the progression of the work So I've created another substack with a thumbnail and a fld (for writing some prompt) the name of this new substack is "MyPrompt" my script : lock screen put the number of cds of this stack into totCds --set the showValue of scrollbar "myscroll" to true --set the endValue of scrollbar "myscroll" to totCds repeat with x = 1 to totCds go cd x --set the thumbposition of scrollbar "myscroll" to x --put "xxx" into fld "prompt" of stack "MyPrompt" doStuffHere end repeat go cd 1 unlock screen ask : how can I call my window "myPrompt", let the thumbnail progress and further work on my previous substack ? Thanks. -- Greetings. Yves COPPE Email : yvescoppe at skynet.be From jacque at hyperactivesw.com Sun Feb 10 15:24:01 2002 From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay) Date: Sun Feb 10 15:24:01 2002 Subject: Dictionary crash. References: <200202101707.MAA29362@www.runrev.com> Message-ID: <3C66D647.A1EF0413@hyperactivesw.com> Ken Norris (dialup)" wrote: > I heard recently that on MacOS it is sometimes detrimental to allocate > too much RAM to MC/Rev. Maybe I'll take it back down a notch and see > what happens. ---------- Under what conditions would this be so? I think under conditions of low installed memory or low system memory (like when a lot of apps are open, which was what I had.) The engine automatically pulls from system memory when there isn't enough RAM allotment in the Get Info box. If there is little system memory available, the app can't get what it needs. Assigning a smaller amount of RAM to the engine in the Get Info box allows a larger system heap, so the engine can pull from it when it needs to. There are a few exceptions, the only one of which I remember now is heavy QuickTime usage. (I think another one is lots of small graphics, but I'm fuzzy on that now.) In that case you'd want a higher assignment to the application. -- Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com From johng at cablespeed.com Sun Feb 10 15:30:01 2002 From: johng at cablespeed.com (John) Date: Sun Feb 10 15:30:01 2002 Subject: How to find the "blessed folder" In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <9B1F3CD2-1E64-11D6-BD6A-003065847600@cablespeed.com> On Saturday, February 9, 2002, at 04:11 PM, Ian Summerfield wrote: Thank you, if the Revolution guys are reading this, I think the Transcript dictionaries "Find" command at the top of the window needs major improvements! I entered "System Folder" and pressed return and it just beeped, even though it's on that card! Am I not using it correctly? I just tried command-F to do the find too, that didn't find it either. How should I be looking this stuff up? I have the same problem/comments - knowing what transcript word to begin to look for is not always as intuitive as you might think. What I have done is use Geoff Canyon's export stack (pulls all of the documentation out into an external file) and then use a word processor to find what I want. It is very useful and it is (was, haven't looked recently) available at the Rev website. John Miskimins -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text/enriched Size: 923 bytes Desc: not available URL: From pixelbird at interisland.net Sun Feb 10 17:02:00 2002 From: pixelbird at interisland.net (Ken Norris (dialup)) Date: Sun Feb 10 17:02:00 2002 Subject: Dictionary crash. In-Reply-To: Message-ID: on 2/10/02 9:04 AM, Geoff Canyon at gcanyon at inspiredlogic.com wrote: > At 6:52 PM -0600 2/9/02, curry at kagi.com wrote: >> (Down the road when you have some free time, extra memory is cheap and some >> stores install it for free! It makes the whole computer behave differently, >> and none more differently than Rev. -- :-) ) > > A memory upgrade makes a lot of sense. For those who either can't or won't > upgrade, MetaCard is an alternative. It's based on the same engine as > Revolution, but the development environment is less memory-hungry. (the > solutions you create will need the same memory regardless of the environment > you use.) ---------- This is a good point to make. I think RR is all about the GUI, the libraries, and the docs and tutoriarials, which take up more memory. However, my machines are a bit old, slow, have memory limitations. In a way, this is good since a number of my solutions must be used on old equipment which can be affordably provided to user's who need them, but cannot afford new equipment. This helps ensure an app will run OK for them. Don't get me wrong, though. I still slobber all over myself looking at the specs on the new Macs, let alone the industrial design. But I can muddle through for now. Best regards, Ken N. From John at onechip.com Sun Feb 10 17:04:00 2002 From: John at onechip.com (John) Date: Sun Feb 10 17:04:00 2002 Subject: How to find the "blessed folder" In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <90325FA4-1E5A-11D6-BD6A-003065847600@onechip.com> On Saturday, February 9, 2002, at 04:11 PM, Ian Summerfield wrote: > Thank you, if the Revolution guys are reading this, I think the > Transcript > dictionaries "Find" command at the top of the window needs major > improvements! I entered "System Folder" and pressed return and it just > beeped, even though it's on that card! Am I not using it correctly? I > just tried command-F to do the find too, that didn't find it either. > How > should I be looking this stuff up? > > I have the same problem/comments - knowing what transcript word to begin to look for is not always as intuitive as you might think. What I have done is use Geoff Canyon's export stack (pulls all of the documentation out into an external file) and then use a word processor to find what I want. It is very useful and it is (was, haven't looked recently) available at the Rev website. John Miskimins From jdhardin at facstaff.wisc.edu Sun Feb 10 17:36:01 2002 From: jdhardin at facstaff.wisc.edu (Jeff Hardin) Date: Sun Feb 10 17:36:01 2002 Subject: Dictionary program In-Reply-To: <200202101706.MAA29274@www.runrev.com> References: <200202101706.MAA29274@www.runrev.com> Message-ID: Hi folks- I know I could write this, but I'm hoping someone has a template I can modify. I'm looking for something that can serve as a set of index cards or a database for custom word definitions, with sorting features for therapists who work with my younger son (he has autism, so we have to modify standard dictionary definitions). Better still would be something that can do simple spell-checking. Any help would be GREATLY appreciated! Cheers, Jeff -- ********************************* Jeff Hardin - Dept. of Zoology - Univ. of Wisconsin 1117 W. Johnson St. - Madison, WI 53706 USA voice: (608) 262-9634 (office)/ (608) 265-2520 (lab) fax: (608) 262-7319 email: jdhardin at facstaff.wisc.edu WWW: http://www.wisc.edu/zoology/faculty/fac/Har/Har.html ********************************* From pdel at noos.fr Sun Feb 10 18:02:01 2002 From: pdel at noos.fr (Pierre Delain) Date: Sun Feb 10 18:02:01 2002 Subject: Revolution much slower then Hypercard In-Reply-To: <200202101709.MAA29505@www.runrev.com> Message-ID: I find out with great surprise and disappointment that Revolution is much slower then HyperCard. I have a stack with 2163 cards, and a script containing the following loop : repeat with CV = 1 to NBR go card CV if fld "ThProp" contains T or fld "proposition" contains ? T or fld "numero" contains T then put word 1 of fld "numero" && fld "proposition" & Return ? after IV end repeat In Hypercard, it takes about 4-5 seconds to perform. In Revolution, I have transfered the fields in custom properties in order to make it faster. I use the following script : put the number of cards into CV repeat for CV times go next card if the VTheme1 of this card contains Cetheme or the VProp of this card contains Cetheme or the VNumero of this card contains Cetheme then put word 1 of the VNumero of this card && the VProp of this card & Return after IV end if end repeat It takes exactly 1 minuts 31 seconds! Is Revolution so slow, or am I missing something? Pierre From drvaughan55 at mac.com Sun Feb 10 18:30:01 2002 From: drvaughan55 at mac.com (David Vaughan) Date: Sun Feb 10 18:30:01 2002 Subject: Revolution and Task (handler) Overlap In-Reply-To: <001701c1b1f9$38706e70$2a45fea9@mantissasp4600> Message-ID: Gary Sorry about the delay in responding but I live in another time zone. On Sunday, February 10, 2002, at 05:07 , Gary Dennis wrote: snip > I want to find a way to use this product. Is it > possible to have the pre-processor you suggest executed from within the > same > stack as a separate task or is it strictly stack = task for REV? If I interpret you correctly, then from Scott's writing and my testing, Rev is single-threaded and executes one task at a time in a stack. I infer that this also applies to a collection of main stack and sub-stacks. There is message passing through that chain but not independent tasking. Running multiple tasks on one processor gains us nothing for the overhead so, to maximise speed, we need to run on multiple processors (two boxes? an OSX or NT multi-processor?). I am making two assumptions here 1: Your testing as previously discussed with a single stack on a single processor system proves not to give enough speed; and 2: The initial filtering of messages is both relatively simple in process (a one or two-pass text filter) and effective (the result will be a "significant" reduction in message volume required for further processing). This assumption is based on your early reference to needing high priority messages. > What I am > seeking is the ability to control the task you suggest and the other > task > that will be used to display and query from the same UI. I don't mind > the > suggestion of some exotic programming approach as long as control and > reliability is not compromised. > > Is that possible with REV? My broad design would be to create a faceless stack (maybe with a quit button) for most efficient input filtering and distribution of the reduced data sets to management stacks, which provide the UI and whatever management functionality you are selling. These could be run on one box for testing and two for maximum performance, or one dedicated input filter and up to 20 management boxes I think you mentioned. The faceless stack would set socketTimeOutInterval to something less than its default 10 seconds (!) - start testing around 100-200milliseconds - and do a straight read with no ending condition other than the timeout, after which post-processing and data distribution occurs before return to the socket read. Doing the socket read with a "send in..." message might make data reading real time within the main filtering loop and together with the socketTimeOutInterval gives you effective tuning of priorities(*see Note below). Data is then distributed through TCP connections to any connected client system. That is, the faceless stack operates as a socket server (accept command) so a variable number of clients are efficiently connectable. If parameters need to be varied in the input filter (and this should be kept as simple as possible) then a separate socket can be used to accept parameter modifications to the filter, again as a server socket because this enables Rev to react to a connection by a client rather than having to waste time polling the port. *Note: Come to think of it, these options could make the system remotely tunable or even self-learning with respect to frequency and duration of socket reads and thus priority assigned to reading and processing. Hope this is helpful and not teaching you to suck eggs! regards David Vaughan DVK Consult Pty Ltd > > Thanks and Best Regards > From pixelbird at interisland.net Sun Feb 10 18:48:01 2002 From: pixelbird at interisland.net (Ken Norris (dialup)) Date: Sun Feb 10 18:48:01 2002 Subject: graphic radio buttons In-Reply-To: Message-ID: on 2/10/02 12:11 AM, Mark Mitchell at mark_mitchell at kmug.org wrote: > use-revolution at lists.runrev.com writes: > I don't have buttons, I have graphics. Like a square or circle or polygon. > Any ideas? > > I do this sort of thing all the time. Every selection just DEselects all > objects in the > group prior to selecting the clicked on object > > on mouseUp > repeat with i = XX to YY > set the selected of object i to false > end repeat > set the selected of me to true > end mouseUp ---------- This works just fine, of course, for selecting the object. That is, until you have, what was it?...30,000 of them. Then the loop will have the user getting pretty long in the tooth before the clicked object gets selected. You can, however, store the ID of the last object clicked, and just deselect it when you select the next one. There is no loop involved. You can even use one offscreen handler (subroutine) to do it, as well as whatever other operations happen, even ones specific to the ID of the object, which is what radio buttons are generally used for. How about this: on mouseUp RBbehavior end mouseUp on RBbehavior if i is not empty then set the selected of graphic ID i to false resetStuff -- maybe to graphic ID i? end if put the ID of the target into i set the selected of the target to true doStuff -- maybe to the target? end RBbehavior Best regards, Ken N. From rpresender at mail.earthlink.net Sun Feb 10 18:57:00 2002 From: rpresender at mail.earthlink.net (Robert Presender) Date: Sun Feb 10 18:57:00 2002 Subject: Menu item addition/runtime Message-ID: Hi, Have come to a standstill in converting my SC appl to Rev because of a menu problem. In SC, I can add a menu item to a particular menu by means of a handler and do the handler of the selected item during runtime/standalone. It is part of a 'New' routine which creates a new card, adds its name as an item to an applicable menu which when clicked will do the applicable routine. I want to do similarly in Rev dev/standalone (Rev 1.1.1B1/1.1/Mac OS 9.2.2) 1. create a menu btn with several items (includes menuPick switch scripts) - no problem, can do 2. create new card by copy/paste routine of a basic card of a particular stack - no problem, can do **3. insert the name of the new card as a new item(after the initial items) to the menu of 1. above by script. Need help here .. . can't find an applicable Transscript ... must be able to do when standalone ..standalone will be of the 'save data' method. **4. add a menuPick switch script (to existing script) for the new item of 3. above. Need help here Help will be appreciated. TIA Regards ... Bob -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From drvaughan55 at mac.com Sun Feb 10 19:10:00 2002 From: drvaughan55 at mac.com (David Vaughan) Date: Sun Feb 10 19:10:00 2002 Subject: Read from socket async? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <4BCDDF35-1E83-11D6-AAA4-000393598038@mac.com> On Monday, February 11, 2002, at 12:18 , Dave Cragg wrote: > Unfair!! It doesn't terminate because I hadn't had coffee and I didn't > have my glasses on. This is what I really typed. :) > > on mouseUp > global sname > put zero into lcounter > repeat 10 > read from socket sname until return with message "dataAdded" > add 1 to lcounter > put lcounter - 1 into tCounter > wait until tCounter = lcounter with messages ##this is the block > put lcounter into field "f2" > end repeat > end mouseUp Dave Actually, I had not even read about the "...with messages" option to "wait..." until you wrote this. Interesting, and yet more good options in Rev. Thanks. David From jdroscha at worldnet.att.net Sun Feb 10 19:16:01 2002 From: jdroscha at worldnet.att.net (James Droscha) Date: Sun Feb 10 19:16:01 2002 Subject: Add a text search to Dictionary stack (was "How to find the 'blessed folder'") In-Reply-To: <200202100113.UAA12288@www.runrev.com> Message-ID: on 2/9/02 8:13 PM, use-revolution-request at lists.runrev.com at use-revolution-request at lists.runrev.com wrote: > Message: 5 > Date: Sun, 10 Feb 2002 00:11:10 +0000 > Subject: Re: How to find the "blessed folder" > From: Ian Summerfield > > Thank you, if the Revolution guys are reading this, I think the Transcript > dictionaries "Find" command at the top of the window needs major > improvements! I entered "System Folder" and pressed return and it just > beeped, even though it's on that card! Am I not using it correctly? I > just tried command-F to do the find too, that didn't find it either. How > should I be looking this stuff up? In addition to the faboo tips Jeanne sent regarding getting at the scripts in the well-armored (for good reason) Dictionary stack (revlanguage.rev), I thought I'd share the first thing I did in Revolution, which I have found a bit handier than using the built-in Edit > Find and Replace menu item. I added a rudimentary text search feature which behaves very much like the Find feature in the Dictionary stack. Here's how: First, I should mention that I did this using Rev 1.1 "Classic" under Mac OS 9.0.4, just in case it doesn't work for you, there might be some subtle difference under different environments. 1) Open Runtime Revolution 2) If it is not already open, open the "Application Overview" under the View menu 3) Under the Help menu, choose "Transcript Dictionary"; this will open the revlanguage stack (which I found in ".\Revolution 1.1 Classic\components\help\"... actually, I made a duplicate of the file and archived it, just to be safe) 4) You should see "revlanguage.rev" appear at the bottom of the Application Overview window with a little expander triangle next to it 5) Using the expander triangles, navigate down to "revlanguage.rev > revDocsLauguageReference > Groups > Find" (TIP: if you are short on RAM or processor speed, avoid opening the group called "Cards" since there is a card for each rev language element so doing so can put you in the penalty box) 6) Double-click on the "Find" group; a dialog should appear that says "Stack revDocsLanguageReference has its cantModify set to true. Editing it will unlock it. Do you wish to continue? [No] [[Yes]]"; click the Yes button 7) You will see sort of a blank looking card that just contains the Find box and label; select these two objects and Duplicate them (Apple-D) 8) Move your new objects over to the right side of the screen, but keep them vertically parallel to the original Find box 9) Change the label to "Search" (or whatever you like) 10) Change the name of the field to "Search" (or whatever you like) 11) Open the script on this new Search box; on the third line of the onReturnInField handler, you should see the line... mark cards where return & target is in the synonyms of this card -- find at start of word change this to... mark cards where (field "Summary" contains target) or (field "Comments" contains target) 12) Close the Properties window and switch to Browse mode (click the little hand next to the arrow in the toolbox) 13) If your search box and/or label are overlapping other elements in the stack, go back in through the Application Overview window and make the needed adjustments 14) If you wish to set the cantModify of the stack back to true, use Apple-K (although Object > Stack Properties is grayed out, it still works, which I suppose is a bug, but a happy one) 15) Make sure you save the stack 16) Voila! Now you can do a text search within the Summary and Comments areas of the Dictionary stack, which I find useful; it makes a nice companion to the Find feature that is already present I apologize if I misused any terms in the above instructions... I am very new to Runtime Revolution, but am having a good time learning it. Hope This Helps Someone, James Droscha From pixelbird at interisland.net Sun Feb 10 19:20:01 2002 From: pixelbird at interisland.net (Ken Norris (dialup)) Date: Sun Feb 10 19:20:01 2002 Subject: Rotatable fields? In-Reply-To: <000901c1b1d0$8536f590$88b15bd1@dreamlanpc> Message-ID: on 2/9/02 5:16 PM, Shao Sean at shaosean at unitz.ca wrote: > i need a cross-platform, self-contained solution.. i have no idea what > software will be running on the end-users' machines.. plus i can't use > pre-generated text because i have no idea what any of the text will be.. ---------- Tie the field(s) to the cursor on doubleclick or special button. Then the user can move them around at will (but not rotate them). Or, you could do the same thing by having a 'selecting it' button, then they could resize it as well. Of course, then they would have access to the properties, too, unless you can find a way to prevent double clicking. ---------- > persona of what you wantally i'll probably work something out cause i'm also going to need > foreign language support (whee.. writing a unicode parser will be fun).. ---------- Sorry. I looked for the post/article about unicode parsing, but I must have deleted it. But I think 'the answer is out there.' Best regards, Ken N. From pixelbird at interisland.net Sun Feb 10 19:30:01 2002 From: pixelbird at interisland.net (Ken Norris (dialup)) Date: Sun Feb 10 19:30:01 2002 Subject: script of "transcript dictionary" stadk In-Reply-To: Message-ID: on 2/9/02 11:48 PM, Jeanne A. E. DeVoto at jeanne at runrev.com wrote: > In case you still cannot get to it, here is the script: > > > local lTimerID -- variable holding the message ID of the delayed > revDocsFilterTerms message > (snip) ---------- Thanks Jeanne, very good of you to do this. BTW, you once wrote a book for HC that had something like "A Look That Dazzles" in the title, didn't you? I think it was only applicable to the old B & W HC stuff, though, right? Was there anything in there that had useable principles for general graphics/image handling in the latest HC? Is there anything like that being worked on for Rev? Thanks again, Ken N. From chrisliv at unimelb.edu.au Sun Feb 10 19:43:01 2002 From: chrisliv at unimelb.edu.au (Chris Livermore) Date: Sun Feb 10 19:43:01 2002 Subject: sorry but could do this In-Reply-To: <200202100113.UAA12315@www.runrev.com> References: <200202100113.UAA12315@www.runrev.com> Message-ID: sorry, I have tried to unsubscribe a few times but it does not seem to eventuate. I may have changed addresses etc, Good luck with the program its a beaut. please unsubscribe me Ta -- Chris Livermore Project Manager Office for Psychiatric Evaluation and Educational Newmedia The University of Melbourne 7th Floor Charles Connibere Building Royal Melbourne Hospital Parkville VIC 3050 Australia. phone +61 3 83449737; fax +61 3 83445584 ______________________________________ B.Sc., Dip.Biol.Sc., Dip.Prof.Comm (multimedia). - Medical Multimedia design, web, cd, dvd, video - Ethnopsychopharmacology research programme - PANSS and EPS training centre ______________________________________ From Cubist at aol.com Sun Feb 10 19:45:01 2002 From: Cubist at aol.com (Cubist at aol.com) Date: Sun Feb 10 19:45:01 2002 Subject: graphic radio buttons Message-ID: I've been following the thread about how to handle graphical hiliting for an unGodly number of objects, and let me add my voice to the chorus of those who are wondering what the heck kind of purpose *requires* messing around with a *five-digit* number of whatever-they-ares. However, presuming that there really is a valid reason to play with *more than 30,000* of *anything*, I have a HyperCard stack that exploits a technique which should prove useful. Go to this URL -- http://members.aol.com/cubist/Download.html -- and download the DieRoller stack. This stack uses a graphic-hilite-on-mouseEnter effect on a 7x10 array of buttons, and it works by exploiting the crap out of HC's message-passing hierarchy. I'll explain the trick here, but you should play with the stack to see it in action... Every one of the 70 buttons in that 7x10 array has a unique name. *None* of them contains *any* handlers -- whenever a message is sent to any of these buttons, that message just "falls thru" to the card, i.e. to the next plateau in the message-passing hierarchy. The card script contains all the code which makes the hiliting work. on mouseEnter put the target into Fred -- "the target" is an HC function that tells you whichever object -- the message (mouseEnter, in this case) was originally sent to if word 1 of the short name of the target "DieRoll" then exit mouseEnter -- "the target" would give you something like "card button 'Fred'"; -- "the short name of the target" returns just the "Fred" part of it. -- each of the 70 array-buttons is named "DieRoll something", and -- no other buttons/fields/etc are. thus, this statement allows this handler -- to ignore everything that's not a "DieRoll whatever" button. global LastBtn -- global variables should be clear, yes? put the short name of Fred into ThisBtn set the icon of Fred to "marked" -- this line is what actually does the graphical hilite on whichever -- button the pointer just entered if there is a cd btn LastBtn and (ThisBtn LastBtn) then set the icon of cd btn LastBtn to "clear" -- clearing the hilite of the last button. --this is where that LastBtn global variable comes into play... put ThisBtn into LastBtn -- ...and here's where it gets defined! this is why the line just previous has -- that "if there is a cd btn LastBtn" clause; when this stack first opens, -- LastBtn is undefined, and setting the icon of an undefined button is an HC no-no end mouseEnter on mouseLeave if word 1 of the short name of the target "DieRoll" then exit mouseLeave -- see above for comment on "the short name of the target" global LastBtn set the icon of cd btn LastBtn to "clear" end mouseLeave I think it should be relatively easy to implement the underlying concept in Rev/MetaCard, yes? Hope this helps... From jeanne at runrev.com Sun Feb 10 19:47:00 2002 From: jeanne at runrev.com (Jeanne A. E. DeVoto) Date: Sun Feb 10 19:47:00 2002 Subject: thumbnail In-Reply-To: Message-ID: At 12:03 PM -0800 2/10/2002, yves COPPE wrote: >I have a substack with many cards. >I have to perform some work on each card. >I'd like a thumbnail showing the progression of the work >So I've created another substack with a thumbnail and a fld (for >writing some prompt) [...] >ask : how can I call my window "myPrompt", let the thumbnail progress >and further work on my previous substack ? Yves, let me be clear: when you say "work on my previous substack", do you mean you want to execute a script that will make further changes, or do you mean you want to work on it by hand (with the tools, typing information, etc.)? And will the "myPrompt" window need to work in a finished standalone application, or is it only a development tool for you to use in the Rev development environment? -- Jeanne A. E. DeVoto ~ jeanne at runrev.com http://www.runrev.com/ Runtime Revolution Limited - Power to the Developer! From jeanne at runrev.com Sun Feb 10 19:47:06 2002 From: jeanne at runrev.com (Jeanne A. E. DeVoto) Date: Sun Feb 10 19:47:06 2002 Subject: Menu item addition/runtime In-Reply-To: Message-ID: At 3:54 PM -0800 2/10/2002, Robert Presender wrote: > 1. create a menu btn with several items (includes menuPick > switch scripts) - no problem, can do > 2. create new card by copy/paste routine of a basic card of > a particular stack - no problem, can do > **3. insert the name of the new card as a new item(after the > initial items) to the menu of 1. above by script. > Need help here .. . can't find an applicable Transscript ... Try this: put return & the short name of this card \ after the text of button "Menu Name" -- use whatever you want as "New Item", of course - can be -- "the short name of this card", or a variable, or whatever > **4. add a menuPick switch script (to existing script) for > the new item of 3. above. You can pull the script into a variable, change the variable, and set the script property back to the variable (as in SuperCard). However, if the script is at all long, you'll run into the Starter Kit limit in setting and compiling the script, so this method isn't ideal. Can you use a more general menuPick handler that will work no matter what you add to the menu? For example: on menuPick theItem switch theItem case "Do Something" -- some code here for the first menu item break case "Something Else" -- code for the second menu item break default -- code for all dynamically added menu items go card theItem -- or whatever you want to do end switch end menuPick This would let your menu react to the added menu items, without having to add a case for each specific item. -- Jeanne A. E. DeVoto ~ jeanne at runrev.com http://www.runrev.com/ Runtime Revolution Limited - Power to the Developer! From pixelbird at interisland.net Sun Feb 10 20:37:01 2002 From: pixelbird at interisland.net (Ken Norris (dialup)) Date: Sun Feb 10 20:37:01 2002 Subject: graphic radio buttons In-Reply-To: Message-ID: on 2/10/02 4:42 PM, Cubist at aol.com at Cubist at aol.com wrote: > I think it should be relatively easy to implement the underlying concept > in Rev/MetaCard, yes? ---------- Yeah, pretty much. This is very cool. There are some things that HC handles better, but on the other hand, in Rev/MC you can script ANY object, color graphics, images, buttons, whatever. You can't set properties of graphics, though. But, maybe you could MAKE custom properties for them. Hmmm. I'll look at the stack in a bit, but it looks like you're using icons to hilite with, true? The name thing is something I've done recently myself. I don't think many realize how you can put item delimited things in object names and cause all kinds of interesting stuff to execute from individual buttons with very little scripting. I used 'on' 'off' g vars to have buttons type various items in the names. Thanks much, and for stopping by. I hope others will find it useful, too. Best regards, Ken N. From drvaughan55 at mac.com Sun Feb 10 20:53:01 2002 From: drvaughan55 at mac.com (David Vaughan) Date: Sun Feb 10 20:53:01 2002 Subject: Revolution much slower then Hypercard In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Pierre I haven't noticed any significant speed difference in my own use. Not knowing how many cards you have or how much data in each field, I created 263 cards (via a script which created a card for each line of some text I grabbed, happening to be 263 lines) putting random chunks from each line into three fields. Then I executed your scripts with lock screen off and on. HyperCard was in Classic 9.2 and Rev in OSX. You would expect Rev to suffer in this comparison because OSX will interrupt it more than HC will suffer in 9.2, I expect (I had several OSX apps open at the time, including a mail collect). Results were: screen unlocked - HC 8.1 secs, Rev 8.5 secs lock screen - HC 0.15 secs (!), Rev 0.9 secs So Rev was dumped on by HC in the lock screen state but there is nothing even remotely resembling your differences. There is something there you have not told us but the good news is it should be resolvable. cheers David On Monday, February 11, 2002, at 09:59 , Pierre Delain wrote: > I find out with great surprise and disappointment that Revolution is > much > slower then HyperCard. > I have a stack with 2163 cards, and a script containing the following > loop : > > repeat with CV = 1 to NBR > go card CV > if fld "ThProp" contains T or fld "proposition" contains ? > T or fld "numero" contains T > then put word 1 of fld "numero" && fld "proposition" & Return ? > after IV > end repeat > > In Hypercard, it takes about 4-5 seconds to perform. In Revolution, I > have > transfered the fields in custom properties in order to make it faster. > I use > the following script : > > put the number of cards into CV > repeat for CV times > go next card > if the VTheme1 of this card contains Cetheme or the VProp of this > card > contains Cetheme or the VNumero of this card contains Cetheme then > put word 1 of the VNumero of this card && the VProp of this card & > Return after IV > end if > end repeat > > It takes exactly 1 minuts 31 seconds! > > Is Revolution so slow, or am I missing something? > > > Pierre > > > _______________________________________________ > use-revolution mailing list > use-revolution at lists.runrev.com > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution > From pixelbird at interisland.net Sun Feb 10 20:57:01 2002 From: pixelbird at interisland.net (Ken Norris (dialup)) Date: Sun Feb 10 20:57:01 2002 Subject: Print snafu In-Reply-To: <90325FA4-1E5A-11D6-BD6A-003065847600@onechip.com> Message-ID: Hi... I tried to print out some things from the Encyclopedia, but all I got was solid black. Anyone know what's happening and/or have a cure? Ken N. From fuegox at mac.com Sun Feb 10 21:01:01 2002 From: fuegox at mac.com (Mark Talluto) Date: Sun Feb 10 21:01:01 2002 Subject: CD's, new drives, labels In-Reply-To: <200202092307.SAA07703@www.runrev.com> Message-ID: On Saturday, February 9, 2002, at 03:07 PM, use-revolution- request at lists.runrev.com wrote: > > I'd like to hear thoughts on attaching labels to CD's. I know there > used to > be no particular problem printing out CD labels and attaching them to > CD's > (for commercial distribution), but now with the really fast CD readers > (20+ > speed), I've heard it may be a bigger issue because of tighter > tolerances. > Any opinions? Any direct experience? > > Thanks. > Richard Miller I have used the a lot in the past and have never had a customer complain about a bad cd. -Mark Talluto From kray at sonsothunder.com Sun Feb 10 22:59:01 2002 From: kray at sonsothunder.com (Ken Ray) Date: Sun Feb 10 22:59:01 2002 Subject: Revolution much slower then Hypercard References: Message-ID: <007401c1b2af$c3209d40$f7fabc42@mckinley.dom> Pierre, Since you're just gathering data from properties of cards, why do you need to *go* to the cards at all? This may just be a holdover from HC, but I'd be interested to know if this is any faster: on mouseUp put the number of cards into CV repeat with x = 1 to CV if the VTheme1 of card x contains Cetheme or the VProp of card x contains Cetheme or the VNumero of card x contains Cetheme then put word 1 of the VNumero of card x && the VProp of card x & return after IV end if end repeat end mouseUp Ken Ray Sons of Thunder Software Email: kray at sonsothunder.com Web Site: http://www.sonsothunder.com/ ----- Original Message ----- From: "Pierre Delain" To: Sent: Sunday, February 10, 2002 4:59 PM Subject: Revolution much slower then Hypercard > I find out with great surprise and disappointment that Revolution is much > slower then HyperCard. > I have a stack with 2163 cards, and a script containing the following loop : > > repeat with CV = 1 to NBR > go card CV > if fld "ThProp" contains T or fld "proposition" contains ? > T or fld "numero" contains T > then put word 1 of fld "numero" && fld "proposition" & Return ? > after IV > end repeat > > In Hypercard, it takes about 4-5 seconds to perform. In Revolution, I have > transfered the fields in custom properties in order to make it faster. I use > the following script : > > put the number of cards into CV > repeat for CV times > go next card > if the VTheme1 of this card contains Cetheme or the VProp of this card > contains Cetheme or the VNumero of this card contains Cetheme then > put word 1 of the VNumero of this card && the VProp of this card & > Return after IV > end if > end repeat > > It takes exactly 1 minuts 31 seconds! > > Is Revolution so slow, or am I missing something? > > > Pierre > > > _______________________________________________ > use-revolution mailing list > use-revolution at lists.runrev.com > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution > From gcanyon at inspiredlogic.com Sun Feb 10 23:02:01 2002 From: gcanyon at inspiredlogic.com (Geoff Canyon) Date: Sun Feb 10 23:02:01 2002 Subject: Revolution much slower then Hypercard In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: At 11:59 PM +0100 2/10/02, Pierre Delain wrote: >I find out with great surprise and disappointment that Revolution is much >slower then HyperCard. >I have a stack with 2163 cards, and a script containing the following loop : I love a challenge like this :-) I wrote a script similar to the one given, to go through the Revolution Language reference (1263 cards) looking for "card" in the three fields: comments, summary, examples. This was on a PowerBook G3 400. Going from one card to the next with the screen unlocked took 50 seconds. The visual cost is significant: Going from one card to the next with the screen locked took 14 seconds. Delivering messages takes time: Going through the cards with the screen and messages locked took 6 seconds. But there's no need to actually go to the cards: Using the form: fld "comments" of cd i of stack "revDocsLanguageReference" took 90 ticks (1.5 seconds) Setting the defaultStack property and simply using fld "comments" of cd i took 53 ticks (<1 second) Finally, pre-loading the data into an array variable instead was faster still (not counting the time to load the array): 9 ticks. Using one of the built-in functions (Filter is my favorite) on a pre-built data set would probably be even faster. regards, Geoff From pixelbird at interisland.net Sun Feb 10 23:40:00 2002 From: pixelbird at interisland.net (Ken Norris (dialup)) Date: Sun Feb 10 23:40:00 2002 Subject: A few caveats on revrtfer.rev In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Hi... This is great idea. Its all the docs available for filing/printing. It's at Rev's website. Thanks Geoff. A few items of note: 1) You will need to convert them to your favorite word processer filetype; they're too large, in the case of the Mac, for SimpleText. 2) The pages are NOT numbered. I found this out too late. Be sure to have your WP insert page #'s. 3) If you decide to print it out, have plenty of paper handy, 20 reams or so. You should use a fast laser printer if possible. You'll have to reload the trays. This thing is 1824 pages! Best regards, Ken N. From pixelbird at interisland.net Sun Feb 10 23:44:00 2002 From: pixelbird at interisland.net (Ken Norris (dialup)) Date: Sun Feb 10 23:44:00 2002 Subject: Removing the docs In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Hi again, Where, exactly, are the docs located. Will Rev run faster if they're removed? If so, then, since I have them in a separate file, I would like to take them out at some point. Best regards, Ken N. From pixelbird at interisland.net Sun Feb 10 23:53:01 2002 From: pixelbird at interisland.net (Ken Norris (dialup)) Date: Sun Feb 10 23:53:01 2002 Subject: Revolution much slower then Hypercard In-Reply-To: Message-ID: on 2/10/02 7:59 PM, Geoff Canyon at gcanyon at inspiredlogic.com wrote: > But there's no need to actually go to the cards: > Using the form: fld "comments" of cd i of stack "revDocsLanguageReference" > took 90 ticks (1.5 seconds) > > Setting the defaultStack property and simply using fld "comments" of cd i took > 53 ticks (<1 second) > > Finally, pre-loading the data into an array variable instead was faster still > (not counting the time to load the array): 9 ticks. > > Using one of the built-in functions (Filter is my favorite) on a pre-built > data set would probably be even faster. ---------- Yeow! These are some pretty impressive numbers. The tricks you can do with Rev can be astounding. That last one, though it would take time to set up, looks like some serious industrial grade speed search. How does it work? Thanks, Ken N. From pixelbird at interisland.net Sun Feb 10 23:58:01 2002 From: pixelbird at interisland.net (Ken Norris (dialup)) Date: Sun Feb 10 23:58:01 2002 Subject: thumbnail In-Reply-To: Message-ID: on 2/10/02 1:48 PM, Jeanne A. E. DeVoto at jeanne at runrev.com wrote: > Yves, let me be clear: when you say "work on my previous substack", do you > mean you want to execute a script that will make further changes, or do you > mean you want to work on it by hand (with the tools, typing information, > etc.)? > > And will the "myPrompt" window need to work in a finished standalone > application, or is it only a development tool for you to use in the Rev > development environment? ---------- I'd like to know, too. This idea has definite possibilities as tool. Best regards, Ken N. From mark_mitchell at kmug.org Mon Feb 11 01:49:00 2002 From: mark_mitchell at kmug.org (Mark Mitchell) Date: Mon Feb 11 01:49:00 2002 Subject: graphic radio buttons In-Reply-To: <200202102358.SAA04527@www.runrev.com> References: <200202102358.SAA04527@www.runrev.com> Message-ID: >>Ken writes: >This works just fine, of course, for selecting the object. That is, until >you have, what was it?...30,000 of them. Then the loop will have the user >getting pretty long in the tooth before the clicked object gets selected. > >You can, however, store the ID of the last object clicked, and just deselect >it when you select the next one. There is no loop involved. You can even use >one offscreen handler (subroutine) to do it, as well as whatever other >operations happen, even ones specific to the ID of the object, which is what >radio buttons are generally used for. > >How about this: > >on mouseUp > RBbehavior >end mouseUp > >on RBbehavior > if i is not empty then > set the selected of graphic ID i to false resetStuff -- maybe to graphic ID i? end if put the ID of the target into i set the selected of the target to true doStuff -- maybe to the target? end RBbehavior Or, as someone else suggested, which might be a little more intuitive than the script above, simply set a customProperty of your group to the currently selected, then deselect that using a group script. Frankly, I'm not sure of the advantage of using a customProperty over a simple global variable (again, consulted in the GROUP script) for something like this. I suppose a customProp will preserve last selected even between use sessions whereas a global will not. Is that all? mark m From mark_mitchell at kmug.org Mon Feb 11 01:59:01 2002 From: mark_mitchell at kmug.org (Mark Mitchell) Date: Mon Feb 11 01:59:01 2002 Subject: menu item addition In-Reply-To: <200202102358.SAA04527@www.runrev.com> References: <200202102358.SAA04527@www.runrev.com> Message-ID: >>I just did this yesterday so..... > >Bob writes: >1. create a menu btn with several items (includes menuPick switch >scripts) - no problem, can do > >I used a pull-down menu button. > >2. create new card by copy/paste routine of a basic card of a >>particular stack - no problem, can do > >Rather than copy/paste, you might want to use "clone card xxx" >then "Set the name of it to myNewCardName" > >**3. insert the name of the new card as a new item(after the initial items) to the menu of 1. above by script. Need help here .. . can't find an applicable Transscript ... must be able to do when standalone ..standalone will be of the 'save data' method. >>It should work as it does in super-card. "put return & myNewCardName after button "mybutton" >you can then "sort lines of button myButton" if you want the menu alphabetical/numerical > >**4. add a menuPick switch script (to existing script) for the new item of 3. above. Need help here You don't have to use menuPick switch, you can also use "put the selectedText of me into..." e.g. On mouseUp put the selectedText of me into whereGo go to card whereGo do funky things on card whereGO end mouseUp The above system does work fine on a Rev standalone. GL, mark japan From yvescoppe at skynet.be Mon Feb 11 02:37:01 2002 From: yvescoppe at skynet.be (yves COPPE) Date: Mon Feb 11 02:37:01 2002 Subject: thumbnail In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: >At 12:03 PM -0800 2/10/2002, yves COPPE wrote: >>I have a substack with many cards. >>I have to perform some work on each card. >>I'd like a thumbnail showing the progression of the work >>So I've created another substack with a thumbnail and a fld (for >>writing some prompt) >[...] >>ask : how can I call my window "myPrompt", let the thumbnail progress >>and further work on my previous substack ? > >Yves, let me be clear: when you say "work on my previous substack", do you >mean you want to execute a script that will make further changes, or do you >mean you want to work on it by hand (with the tools, typing information, >etc.)? > >And will the "myPrompt" window need to work in a finished standalone >application, or is it only a development tool for you to use in the Rev >development environment? > 1) work on my previous substac means working on each visited card in the stack from which the script starts 2) I shal afterwards make a standalone app. Thanks. -- Greetings. Yves COPPE Email : yvescoppe at skynet.be From yvescoppe at skynet.be Mon Feb 11 02:37:30 2002 From: yvescoppe at skynet.be (yves COPPE) Date: Mon Feb 11 02:37:30 2002 Subject: Revolution much slower then Hypercard In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: >Finally, pre-loading the data into an array variable instead was >faster still (not counting the time to load the array): 9 ticks. > >Using one of the built-in functions (Filter is my favorite) on a >pre-built data set would probably be even faster. > >regards, > >Geoff can you give an example of a script using such a code ? Thanks. -- Greetings. Yves COPPE Email : yvescoppe at skynet.be From pixelbird at interisland.net Mon Feb 11 02:40:01 2002 From: pixelbird at interisland.net (Ken Norris (dialup)) Date: Mon Feb 11 02:40:01 2002 Subject: graphic radio buttons In-Reply-To: Message-ID: on 2/10/02 10:43 PM, Mark Mitchell at mark_mitchell at kmug.org wrote: > Or, as someone else suggested, which might be a little more intuitive than the > script above, > simply set a customProperty of your group to the currently selected, then > deselect that using > a group script. Frankly, I'm not sure of the advantage of using a > customProperty over a simple > global variable (again, consulted in the GROUP script) for something like > this. > I suppose a customProp will preserve last selected even > between use sessions whereas a global will not. Is that all? ---------- I'm sure the script I posted probably reeks of HyperTalk-ism, but it's simple, safe, and it works, doesn't need a G var...I tested it. However, I'm quite interested in how your idea works, since I'm just learning about group behavior in RR. I can see the ability to make control structures for customizing stack operations in it. YouGotScript? Best regards, Ken N. From pdel at noos.fr Mon Feb 11 02:57:01 2002 From: pdel at noos.fr (Pierre Delain) Date: Mon Feb 11 02:57:01 2002 Subject: Revolution much slower than HyperCard In-Reply-To: <200202110400.XAA10532@www.runrev.com> Message-ID: Thanks Ken, it was the solution. The "go to card" form was the problem. Pierre Delain > > Since you're just gathering data from properties of cards, why do you need > to *go* to the cards at all? This may just be a holdover from HC, but I'd be > interested to know if this is any faster: > > on mouseUp > put the number of cards into CV > repeat with x = 1 to CV > if the VTheme1 of card x contains Cetheme or the VProp of card x > contains Cetheme or the VNumero of card x contains Cetheme then > put word 1 of the VNumero of card x && the VProp of card x & return > after IV > end if > end repeat > end mouseUp > > Ken Ray > Sons of Thunder Software > Email: kray at sonsothunder.com > Web Site: http://www.sonsothunder.com/ > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Pierre Delain" > To: > Sent: Sunday, February 10, 2002 4:59 PM > Subject: Revolution much slower then Hypercard > > >> I find out with great surprise and disappointment that Revolution is much >> slower then HyperCard. >> I have a stack with 2163 cards, and a script containing the following loop > : >> >> repeat with CV = 1 to NBR >> go card CV >> if fld "ThProp" contains T or fld "proposition" contains ? >> T or fld "numero" contains T >> then put word 1 of fld "numero" && fld "proposition" & Return ? >> after IV >> end repeat >> >> In Hypercard, it takes about 4-5 seconds to perform. In Revolution, I have >> transfered the fields in custom properties in order to make it faster. I > use >> the following script : >> >> put the number of cards into CV >> repeat for CV times >> go next card >> if the VTheme1 of this card contains Cetheme or the VProp of this > card >> contains Cetheme or the VNumero of this card contains Cetheme then >> put word 1 of the VNumero of this card && the VProp of this card & >> Return after IV >> end if >> end repeat >> >> It takes exactly 1 minuts 31 seconds! >> >> Is Revolution so slow, or am I missing something? >> >> >> Pierre >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> use-revolution mailing list >> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution >> > > > > --__--__-- > > _______________________________________________ > use-revolution mailing list > use-revolution at lists.runrev.com > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution > > > End of use-revolution Digest > From pixelbird at interisland.net Mon Feb 11 03:15:01 2002 From: pixelbird at interisland.net (Ken Norris (dialup)) Date: Mon Feb 11 03:15:01 2002 Subject: How do I determine objects in a group? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: on 2/8/02 10:48 AM, Devin Asay at devin_asay at byu.edu wrote: > Put the radio buttons in a group and make sure the group's > radioBehavior property is set to true. This can be done by script or > in the properties palette. Once this is set, the proper radio button > behavior is automatic; i.e., only one radio button in the group can > be hilited at a time. ---------- Just like HC family behavior, eh? I'm just transitioning myself. Zac's original post was wanting to use graphics, not buttons, though. If I were him, I think I'd just use a screen image with all the figures and transparent buttons with automatic group radio behavior, but he hasn't made us aware of the overall purposes. I have a HC stack I'm needing to transition. It has 76 buttons, sets of selectable operational features and background pictures, etc. I need a control panel for it, but this CP will need to demo some of the features to help user's decide how they want it's visual and audio feedback options to look and work. The selected options need to remain persistent from session to session until they are changed. I was thinking about using a palette, but I think maybe groups of objects in a substack would work better. Any advice? Thanks, Ken Norris From jeanne at runrev.com Mon Feb 11 03:26:01 2002 From: jeanne at runrev.com (Jeanne A. E. DeVoto) Date: Mon Feb 11 03:26:01 2002 Subject: script of "transcript dictionary" stadk In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: At 4:39 PM -0800 2/10/2002, Ken Norris (dialup) wrote: >BTW, you once wrote a book for HC A couple of chapters, actually. > that had something like "A Look That >Dazzles" in the title, didn't you? I think it was only applicable to the old >B & W HC stuff, though, right? Was there anything in there that had useable >principles for general graphics/image handling in the latest HC? Is there >anything like that being worked on for Rev? That chapter is on my website at . Most of it applies to Revolution visual effects as well, although some does not and it's not a complete description of Rev visual effects, so I'm not sure how useful it is at this point. (It was written for HyperCard 1.something, so parts of it aren't accurate even for later versions of HyperCard.) -- Jeanne A. E. DeVoto ~ jeanne at runrev.com http://www.runrev.com/ Runtime Revolution Limited - Power to the Developer! From gcanyon at inspiredlogic.com Mon Feb 11 03:33:02 2002 From: gcanyon at inspiredlogic.com (Geoff Canyon) Date: Mon Feb 11 03:33:02 2002 Subject: Revolution much slower then Hypercard In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: At 7:59 PM -0800 2/10/02, Geoff Canyon wrote: >Finally, pre-loading the data into an array variable instead was faster still (not counting the time to load the array): 9 ticks. At 9:02 PM -0800 2/10/02, Ken Norris (dialup) wrote: >Yeow! These are some pretty impressive numbers. The tricks you can do with >Rev can be astounding. That last one, though it would take time to set up, >looks like some serious industrial grade speed search. How does it work? At 8:35 AM +0100 2/11/02, yves COPPE wrote: >can you give an example of a script using such a code ? Here's the array script. Using the Filter command method might or might not be applicable here -- I'd need to know more of the specifics of the problem. By the way, with Revolution it's often fairly easy to create a performance difference of twenty or thirty times, sometimes even a hundred times, just by changing the way you write your code. If a handler is slow, be sure to look for ways to speed it up, because generally there will be a way. regards, Geoff on mouseUp -- first build the arrays. I'm not timing this, -- because in real use this would be done once -- beforehand, and then the arrays stored in globals. -- even so, building the arrays only takes a few seconds -- tLog is the results variable -- faster than a field put empty into tLog -- setting the default stack for speed set the defaultStack to "revDocsLanguageReference" -- figure out how many cards -- there are about 1200 put the number of cds into tHowMany -- repeat for each card repeat with i = 1 to tHowMany -- put three fields into an array element put fld "summary" of cd i && fld "examples" of cd i \ && fld "comments" of cd i into tArray[i] -- put the name of the card into another. -- note that I could have used the card name as the index -- for the other array -- Rev has associative arrays, which -- are the cat's meow. But if two cards were named the same, -- it wouldn't work. put the name of cd i into tCardName[i] end repeat -- reset the default stack set the defaultStack to "speedTest" -- and now to the test -- start timing! put ticks() into tStart repeat with i = 1 to tHowMany -- for each element in the array, if it contains "card" if tArray[i] contains "card" then -- then put the entry in the names array after the results variable put tCardName[i] & cr after tLog end if end repeat -- put the results in a field and we're done. put tLog into fld "log" -- This is about 10 ticks on my machine. put ticks() - tStart into tRunTime -- display the results put tRunTime && (the number of lines of tLog) end mouseUp From fuegox at cox.net Mon Feb 11 04:05:02 2002 From: fuegox at cox.net (Mark Talluto) Date: Mon Feb 11 04:05:02 2002 Subject: CD's, new drives, labels In-Reply-To: <200202092307.SAA07703@www.runrev.com> Message-ID: <23782E28-1E81-11D6-8AF6-003065B78238@cox.net> On Saturday, February 9, 2002, at 03:07 PM, use-revolution- request at lists.runrev.com wrote: > > I'd like to hear thoughts on attaching labels to CD's. I know there > used to > be no particular problem printing out CD labels and attaching them to > CD's > (for commercial distribution), but now with the really fast CD readers > (20+ > speed), I've heard it may be a bigger issue because of tighter > tolerances. > Any opinions? Any direct experience? > > Thanks. > Richard Miller I have used the a lot in the past and have never had a customer complain about a bad cd. -Mark Talluto From zink at newmex.com Mon Feb 11 04:10:01 2002 From: zink at newmex.com (Nelson Zink) Date: Mon Feb 11 04:10:01 2002 Subject: Revolution much slower then Hypercard Message-ID: Ken, Can you speed this up? on mouseUp select card image 1 delete card image 1 put 300 into XX put 300 into YY put 200 into RR choose brush tool set brush to 32 set brushcolor to "blue" put -((pi/2)-(pi/584)) into Rad repeat until Rad>=1.5*pi click at XX+round(RR*cos (Rad)),YY+round(RR*sin (Rad)) add (2*pi)/584 to Rad end repeat choose browse tool end mouseUp There's slow and then there's slow. Nelson From shaosean at unitz.ca Mon Feb 11 06:04:01 2002 From: shaosean at unitz.ca (Shao Sean) Date: Mon Feb 11 06:04:01 2002 Subject: Revolution much slower then Hypercard References: Message-ID: <002101c1b2eb$6d69e640$88b15bd1@dreamlanpc> for starters i'd probably store the result of 1.5*pi so it wouldn't have to do the calculation every loop through the repeat and maybe the addition into a variable too ----- Original Message ----- > on mouseUp > select card image 1 > delete card image 1 > put 300 into XX > put 300 into YY > put 200 into RR > choose brush tool > set brush to 32 > set brushcolor to "blue" > put -((pi/2)-(pi/584)) into Rad put 1.5*pi into endRad -- ADDED put (2*pi)/584 into addToRad -- ADDED > > #repeat until Rad>=1.5*pi -- COMMENTED OUT repeat until Rad >= endRad -- ADDED > click at XX+round(RR*cos (Rad)),YY+round(RR*sin (Rad)) > #add (2*pi)/584 to Rad -- COMMENTED OUT add addToRad to Rad -- ADDED > end repeat > > choose browse tool > end mouseUp > > There's slow and then there's slow. > > Nelson > > _______________________________________________ > use-revolution mailing list > use-revolution at lists.runrev.com > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution From yvescoppe at skynet.be Mon Feb 11 06:44:01 2002 From: yvescoppe at skynet.be (yves COPPE) Date: Mon Feb 11 06:44:01 2002 Subject: Revolution much slower then Hypercard In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: >At 7:59 PM -0800 2/10/02, Geoff Canyon wrote: >>Finally, pre-loading the data into an array variable instead was >>faster still (not counting the time to load the array): 9 ticks. > >At 9:02 PM -0800 2/10/02, Ken Norris (dialup) wrote: >>Yeow! These are some pretty impressive numbers. The tricks you can do with >>Rev can be astounding. That last one, though it would take time to set up, >>looks like some serious industrial grade speed search. How does it work? > >At 8:35 AM +0100 2/11/02, yves COPPE wrote: >>can you give an example of a script using such a code ? > > >Here's the array script. Using the Filter command method might or >might not be applicable here -- I'd need to know more of the >specifics of the problem. > >By the way, with Revolution it's often fairly easy to create a >performance difference of twenty or thirty times, sometimes even a >hundred times, just by changing the way you write your code. If a >handler is slow, be sure to look for ways to speed it up, because >generally there will be a way. > >regards, > >Geoff > > >on mouseUp >-- first build the arrays. I'm not timing this, >-- because in real use this would be done once >-- beforehand, and then the arrays stored in globals. >-- even so, building the arrays only takes a few seconds > >-- tLog is the results variable -- faster than a field > put empty into tLog > >-- setting the default stack for speed > set the defaultStack to "revDocsLanguageReference" > >-- figure out how many cards -- there are about 1200 > put the number of cds into tHowMany > >-- repeat for each card > repeat with i = 1 to tHowMany > >-- put three fields into an array element > put fld "summary" of cd i && fld "examples" of cd i \ > && fld "comments" of cd i into tArray[i] > >-- put the name of the card into another. >-- note that I could have used the card name as the index >-- for the other array -- Rev has associative arrays, which >-- are the cat's meow. But if two cards were named the same, >-- it wouldn't work. > put the name of cd i into tCardName[i] > end repeat > >-- reset the default stack > set the defaultStack to "speedTest" > >-- and now to the test -- start timing! > put ticks() into tStart > > repeat with i = 1 to tHowMany > >-- for each element in the array, if it contains "card" > if tArray[i] contains "card" then > >-- then put the entry in the names array after the results variable > put tCardName[i] & cr after tLog > end if > end repeat > >-- put the results in a field and we're done. > put tLog into fld "log" > >-- This is about 10 ticks on my machine. > put ticks() - tStart into tRunTime > >-- display the results > put tRunTime && (the number of lines of tLog) >end mouseUp thank you. I begin to understand a little what is using an array. it's something completely new for me. I've tested that on one of my stack. Indeed, it works fast. With such discussion, with can go furtehr in the work with RR. I'm impatiently waiting for the 1.1.1b2 release. Any idea when it comes ? -- From gcanyon at inspiredlogic.com Mon Feb 11 10:25:01 2002 From: gcanyon at inspiredlogic.com (Geoff Canyon) Date: Mon Feb 11 10:25:01 2002 Subject: How to ask for help Message-ID: This is a request for everyone who wants to post some Transcript to the list, hoping that someone can make it work it work faster, better, without crashing, etc. In addition to the Transcript code, please post a short description of what you want to accomplish in plain English. There are many ways any given task can be coded. It's often difficult for anyone to know which ways will actually work for the problem you are asking about based only on the code you've already used to solve the problem. An example might be, "I need to keep track of a set of old bicycle parts, with pictures, and I'm trying to find a better way, because so far it's slow. There are about ten thousand parts, and the pictures are GIF files, about 20k each. I'm creating a separate card for each bicycle part and importing the images into the stack. Here is the find code I'm using, which takes about five seconds on my PowerMac 6100." _Then_ post the Transcript in question. In addition to making it more likely you'll get a response that actually addresses your problem, we all get to reminisce about our childhood bicycles a bit. :-) regards, Geoff From gcanyon at inspiredlogic.com Mon Feb 11 10:40:00 2002 From: gcanyon at inspiredlogic.com (Geoff Canyon) Date: Mon Feb 11 10:40:00 2002 Subject: Revolution much slower then Hypercard In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: At 2:06 AM -0700 2/11/02, Nelson Zink wrote: >Can you speed this up? > >on mouseUp > select card image 1 > delete card image 1 > put 300 into XX > put 300 into YY > put 200 into RR > choose brush tool Do you actually need paint graphics? Using object graphics would work better unless you actually need paint. This will create a graphic oval: on mouseUp create grc "aNewCircle" set the style of grc "aNewCircle" to "oval" set the rect of grc "aNewCircle" to 100,100,300,300 end mouseUp If you need paint, is it just a circle you're after? If so then this is very quick: on mouseUp choose oval tool set the lineSize to 5 set penColor to "blue" drag from 100,100 to 300,300 choose browse tool end mouseUp regards, Geoff From mvivit at softcom.net Mon Feb 11 12:36:01 2002 From: mvivit at softcom.net (Mary Vivit) Date: Mon Feb 11 12:36:01 2002 Subject: 1.0 -> 1.1.1 upgrade doc? References: Message-ID: <3C680026.D6342D6A@softcom.net> Good day... Is there a document somewhere that describes the new features of 1.1.1 and the deprecated features of the 1.0 version? Also, is there a way to search the list archives? Thanks! Mary Vivit mvivit at softcom.net From jacque at hyperactivesw.com Mon Feb 11 12:41:01 2002 From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay) Date: Mon Feb 11 12:41:01 2002 Subject: graphic radio buttons References: <200202110834.DAA16753@www.runrev.com> Message-ID: <3C68018D.63546432@hyperactivesw.com> "Mark Mitchell" wrote: > Frankly, I'm not sure of the advantage of using a customProperty over a simple > global variable (again, consulted in the GROUP script) for something like this. > I suppose a customProp will preserve last selected even > between use sessions whereas a global will not. Is that all? The other main difference is speed. Globals are much faster than retrieving custom properties. If I have a script that has to access some data repeatedly, I put it into a global (or a local variable at the top of a script.) If the data only needs to be read occasionally, a property works fine. If the information needs to be persistent between sessions, then storing it in a property before the stack closes is necessary in any case. -- Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com From pixelbird at interisland.net Mon Feb 11 13:49:01 2002 From: pixelbird at interisland.net (Ken Norris (dialup)) Date: Mon Feb 11 13:49:01 2002 Subject: graphic radio buttons In-Reply-To: <3C68018D.63546432@hyperactivesw.com> Message-ID: on 2/11/02 9:38 AM, J. Landman Gay at jacque at hyperactivesw.com wrote: > If the information needs to be persistent between sessions, > then storing it in a property before the stack closes is necessary in > any case. ---------- OK. Will that slow up processing in the next session? Would simply storing the info in, say, an item delimited global variable work more quickly? Best regards, Ken N. From rcozens at pon.net Mon Feb 11 14:02:01 2002 From: rcozens at pon.net (Rob Cozens) Date: Mon Feb 11 14:02:01 2002 Subject: graphic radio buttons In-Reply-To: <3C68018D.63546432@hyperactivesw.com> References: <200202110834.DAA16753@www.runrev.com> Message-ID: >The other main difference is speed. Globals are much faster than >retrieving custom properties. Jacque, et al: Has anyone tested how retreiving the contents of a field compares to retrieving a custom property? In "Revolution much slower then Hypercard", Pierre Delain posted, >In Hypercard, it takes about 4-5 seconds to perform. In Revolution, I have >transfered the fields in custom properties in order to make it faster. None of the responses I looked at actually tried to compare apples to apples, ie: to retrieve the contents of a field from both HC & RR. Rob Cozens CCW, Serendipity Software Company "And I, which was two fooles, do so grow three; Who are a little wise, the best fooles bee." from "The Triple Foole" by John Donne (1572-1631) From kevin at runrev.com Mon Feb 11 14:14:01 2002 From: kevin at runrev.com (Kevin Miller) Date: Mon Feb 11 14:14:01 2002 Subject: QT editing, QT 5 bug fix? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On 9/2/02 11:41 pm, Jeff Hardin wrote: > P.S.- Any progress on the QT 5 standard controller bug? Just wondering... We have found a workaround for now: turn the resizable of the stack off. Kevin Kevin Miller Runtime Revolution Limited - Power to the Developer! Tel: +44 (0) 870 747 1165. Fax: +44 (0)1639 830 707. From rcozens at pon.net Mon Feb 11 14:17:00 2002 From: rcozens at pon.net (Rob Cozens) Date: Mon Feb 11 14:17:00 2002 Subject: graphic radio buttons In-Reply-To: References: <3C68018D.63546432@hyperactivesw.com> Message-ID: >> If the information needs to be persistent between sessions, >> then storing it in a property before the stack closes is necessary in >> any case. >---------- >OK. Will that slow up processing in the next session? Would simply storing >the info in, say, an item delimited global variable work more quickly? Hi Ken, In this case Jacque is talking about saving the global information in a control or a property so the information is not lost when the MetaCard engine quits. The global can then be reset when the stack preOpens. The time the stack takes to open and close will increase by the time required to fetch the values/put them into the global and vice versa; butwhile opened, there is no degredation in performance. Rob Cozens CCW, Serendipity Software Company "And I, which was two fooles, do so grow three; Who are a little wise, the best fooles bee." from "The Triple Foole" by John Donne (1572-1631) From zink at newmex.com Mon Feb 11 14:29:01 2002 From: zink at newmex.com (Nelson Zink) Date: Mon Feb 11 14:29:01 2002 Subject: Revolution much slower then Hypercard Message-ID: Ken, > Do you actually need paint graphics? Using object graphics would work better > unless you actually need paint. I think I did this with objects and couldn't get the size dot I wanted and it wasn't a whole lot faster than graphics. A size 32 dot in graphics looks pretty goofy (which I don't understand) but was the closest to what I wanted. This all ran fine (quiggly, quiggly) in HC except for the color ability. > If you need paint, is it just a circle you're after? No. This a representation of the orbit of Venus where each day is a colored bead--a pattern for a Venus calendar necklace. Actually, the loop is: > repeat until r>=1.5*pi --beads > click at x+round(rr*cos (r)),y+round(rr*sin (r)) > add (2*pi)/584 to r > add 1 to KK > set brushcolor to word 2 of line kk of fld 1 > if brushcolor="white" or brushcolor="black" or brushcolor="orange" then set > brush to 8 > else set brush to 32 > end repeat Which checks a fld for full moon dates, seasons of the year and so on, but delimiting all that doesn't help speed much. The math operations are insignificant as compared to the general time it take this thing to run. Nelson From pixelbird at interisland.net Mon Feb 11 15:20:01 2002 From: pixelbird at interisland.net (Ken Norris (dialup)) Date: Mon Feb 11 15:20:01 2002 Subject: Revolution much slower then Hypercard In-Reply-To: Message-ID: on 2/11/02 12:32 AM, Geoff Canyon at gcanyon at inspiredlogic.com wrote: > Here's the array script. Using the Filter command method might or might not be > applicable here -- I'd need to know more of the specifics of the problem. ---------- Yes, of course, that makes sense. Thanks for the array script. Anyone who has large numbers of things to do at once should pay attention. Rev arrays are similar to HC arrays, so if anyone is interested: Visit this URL... ...and search for "Arraymaster". Note: the use of associative arrays might speed up some of these when writing. ---------- > By the way, with Revolution it's often fairly easy to create a performance > difference of twenty or thirty times, sometimes even a hundred times, just by > changing the way you write your code. If a handler is slow, be sure to look > for ways to speed it up, because generally there will be a way. ---------- My experience in HC has shown me that. I've gotten into the habit of trying to find the most efficient ways of doing things, but sometimes the time input gets costly, so I'm in the process of putting these into script modules available as tasks assignable from menus. Maybe your script or some modification, will end up there. As I come up with these, I'll try to post them when they're thoroughly tested. Thanks, best regards, Ken N. From pixelbird at interisland.net Mon Feb 11 15:24:01 2002 From: pixelbird at interisland.net (Ken Norris (dialup)) Date: Mon Feb 11 15:24:01 2002 Subject: script of "transcript dictionary" stadk In-Reply-To: Message-ID: on 2/11/02 12:22 AM, Jeanne A. E. DeVoto at jeanne at runrev.com wrote: > That chapter is on my website at > . Most > of it applies to Revolution visual effects as well, although some does not > and it's not a complete description of Rev visual effects, so I'm not sure > how useful it is at this point. (It was written for HyperCard 1.something, > so parts of it aren't accurate even for later versions of HyperCard.) ---------- Thank you.. Ken N. From pixelbird at interisland.net Mon Feb 11 15:32:00 2002 From: pixelbird at interisland.net (Ken Norris (dialup)) Date: Mon Feb 11 15:32:00 2002 Subject: thumbnail In-Reply-To: Message-ID: on 2/10/02 11:28 PM, yves COPPE at yvescoppe at skynet.be wrote: > 1) work on my previous substac > means working on each visited card in the stack from which the script starts > > 2) I shal afterwards make a standalone app. > > Thanks. ---------- That's what I thought. It's a tool. I like the idea. Do you mind if I help work on it with you? Actually, you'll probably get ahead of me on it, but I'd want to see what else can use it. First idea: Make it a custom palette window instead of a substack. Then you can call it whenever you like. It just needs to 'track' your progress in the local stack you're working on. Best regards, Ken N. From yvescoppe at skynet.be Mon Feb 11 16:38:00 2002 From: yvescoppe at skynet.be (yves COPPE) Date: Mon Feb 11 16:38:00 2002 Subject: thumbnail In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hello, "First idea: Make it a custom palette window instead of a substack" How ?? Thanks. -- Greetings. Yves COPPE Email : yvescoppe at skynet.be From yvescoppe at skynet.be Mon Feb 11 17:15:01 2002 From: yvescoppe at skynet.be (yves COPPE) Date: Mon Feb 11 17:15:01 2002 Subject: write to file command Message-ID: hello, in the transcript dictionary, we find : If the file already exists, the write to file command does not remove characters from it. For example, if the file is 100 characters long, and you write a value 60 characters long to the start of the file, the file now contains the 60 characters of the value, followed by the last 40 characters of the original file. So, if I want my text replace the previous one I must write something like if there is a file filename then delete file filename end if open file filename write date to fiel filename close file filename the 3 first lines make sure there will be none char over from the previous written data Is there any other way to write data to a file without having any chars over from the previous record ? Or I only can perform it deleting the previous file ? thanks. -- Greetings. Yves COPPE Email : yvescoppe at skynet.be From bfether at mac.com Mon Feb 11 17:33:00 2002 From: bfether at mac.com (Ben C. Fetherston, Jr.) Date: Mon Feb 11 17:33:00 2002 Subject: OS X Printing Problem In-Reply-To: Message-ID: I have an application that as a standalone will print the text in a field under OS 9.2 without any problem. Using the same stack in a standalone under OS X, the printing won't work. Has anyone had similar problems with printing in OS X? Under OS X the printing just hangs and can't be cancelled. This is true under the standalone application as well as in the OS X version of RunRev under browse or suspend UI. -- bfether at mac.com Salem, OR USA From devin_asay at byu.edu Mon Feb 11 17:57:01 2002 From: devin_asay at byu.edu (Devin Asay) Date: Mon Feb 11 17:57:01 2002 Subject: write to file command In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: At 11:11 PM +0100 2/11/02, yves COPPE wrote: >hello, > > >in the transcript dictionary, we find : > >If the file already exists, the write to file command does not >remove characters from it. For example, if the file is 100 >characters long, and you write a value 60 characters long to the >start of the file, the file now contains the 60 characters of the >value, followed by the last 40 characters of the original file. > [stuff deleted] >Is there any other way to write data to a file without having any >chars over from the previous record ? Yes, the key is to use the "open file for write" form of the open file command. Then, any "write to file" operation will completely replace the contents of the file. -- Devin Asay Humanities Research Center Brigham Young University From drvaughan55 at mac.com Mon Feb 11 18:06:02 2002 From: drvaughan55 at mac.com (David Vaughan) Date: Mon Feb 11 18:06:02 2002 Subject: graphic radio buttons In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Tuesday, February 12, 2002, at 05:49 , Rob Cozens wrote: > snip > None of the responses I looked at actually tried to compare apples to > apples, ie: to retrieve the contents of a field from both HC & RR. > > Rob Cozens I did, Rob, in my post of 11th. Without the detail, it showed HC about 5% faster with screen unlocked and 6x (!) faster with screen locked, using Pierre's code on 263 cards of 3 text fields each (RR on OSX 10.1, HC in Classic 9.2). 6x is a big difference but still well below Pierre's ratio. Pierre has since posted that referencing the cards rather than going to them solved his problem, so there may have been other differences (e.g. open/close card handlers) between his test cases, as otherwise I can not account for the performance ratios he obtained, compared with my test. regards David From gcanyon at inspiredlogic.com Mon Feb 11 18:19:01 2002 From: gcanyon at inspiredlogic.com (Geoff Canyon) Date: Mon Feb 11 18:19:01 2002 Subject: Revolution much slower then Hypercard In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: I don't know if there is any way to change this, but it seems the fastest Revolution will "click" is about 4 times a second (on my computer). This is true even if it isn't doing anything -- not painting, messages locked, just clicking on the card. The following, on the other hand, runs in about 15 ticks, or a quarter of a second. Obviously it could be further optimized and also needs to be customized to your purpose. on mouseUp lock messages lock screen put 300 into XX put 300 into YY put 200 into RR put -((pi/2)-(pi/584)) into Rad set the style of the templateGraphic to "oval" repeat until Rad>=1.5*pi or the optionKey is "down" put XX+round(RR*cos (Rad)) into tX put YY+round(RR*sin (Rad)) into tY set the rect of the templateGraphic to tX-2,tY-2,tX+2,tY+2 create graphic add (2*pi)/584 to Rad end repeat end mouseUp If you really need paint graphics, then execute the above script and then take a screen shot. (you can do that within Revolution) Note that this script creates a large number of graphics. Selecting and deleting them by hand will be very slow. A script that deletes them all with the screen locked would be much faster. You can make this easier by giving them all the same name in the "create graphic" step. regards, Geoff From gcanyon at inspiredlogic.com Mon Feb 11 18:33:01 2002 From: gcanyon at inspiredlogic.com (Geoff Canyon) Date: Mon Feb 11 18:33:01 2002 Subject: write to file command In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: At 11:11 PM +0100 2/11/02, yves COPPE wrote: >If the file already exists, the write to file command does not remove characters from it. For example, if the file is 100 characters long, and you write a value 60 characters long to the start of the file, the file now contains the 60 characters of the value, followed by the last 40 characters of the original file. Check out the update option, which will do what you want. Also check out the URL file access -- as long as you're not dealing with large (>1MB, maybe) amounts of data, it can be a lot easier to handle. regards, Geoff From rcozens at pon.net Mon Feb 11 18:59:01 2002 From: rcozens at pon.net (Rob Cozens) Date: Mon Feb 11 18:59:01 2002 Subject: graphic radio buttons In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: >I did, Rob, in my post of 11th. Without the detail, it showed HC about >5% faster with screen unlocked and 6x (!) faster with screen locked Sorry I didn't look close enough to notice, David. I must admit I am surprised, as I've followed Scott Rainey's work to accelerate the MetaCard engine since early discussions on the HyperCard List. Rob Cozens CCW, Serendipity Software Company "And I, which was two fooles, do so grow three; Who are a little wise, the best fooles bee." from "The Triple Foole" by John Donne (1572-1631) From rpresender at mail.earthlink.net Mon Feb 11 19:37:00 2002 From: rpresender at mail.earthlink.net (Robert Presender) Date: Mon Feb 11 19:37:00 2002 Subject: Menu item addition/runtime Message-ID: Thanks to Mark and Jean for your help. Can now continue with my appl conversion from SuperCard to RR. Regards ... Bob From raney at metacard.com Mon Feb 11 19:39:01 2002 From: raney at metacard.com (Scott Raney) Date: Mon Feb 11 19:39:01 2002 Subject: graphic radio buttons In-Reply-To: <200202120002.TAA01771@www.runrev.com> Message-ID: On Mon, 11 Feb 2002 Rob Cozens wrote: > > >I did, Rob, in my post of 11th. Without the detail, it showed HC about > >5% faster with screen unlocked and 6x (!) faster with screen locked > > Sorry I didn't look close enough to notice, David. > > I must admit I am surprised, as I've followed Scott Rainey's work to > accelerate the MetaCard engine since early discussions on the HyperCard > List. HyperCard *is* faster at field get/set and reformatting. It's just the price you pay for breaking the 32K and color barriers. Fortunately in most cases MetaCard's on average 5x better performance on everything else more than makes up for the on average 2x worse performance on field access. Regards, Scott > Rob Cozens > CCW, Serendipity Software Company > > "And I, which was two fooles, do so grow three; > Who are a little wise, the best fooles bee." > > from "The Triple Foole" by John Donne (1572-1631) ******************************************************** Scott Raney raney at metacard.com http://www.metacard.com MetaCard: You know, there's an easier way to do that... From drvaughan55 at mac.com Mon Feb 11 20:04:01 2002 From: drvaughan55 at mac.com (David Vaughan) Date: Mon Feb 11 20:04:01 2002 Subject: graphic radio buttons In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <16A632A9-1F54-11D6-AAA4-000393598038@mac.com> On Tuesday, February 12, 2002, at 10:53 , Rob Cozens wrote: snip > I must admit I am surprised, as I've followed Scott Rainey's work to > accelerate the MetaCard engine since early discussions on the HyperCard > List. > > Rob Cozens > CCW, Serendipity Software Company > I guess HyperCard accelerated at the same time - on-the-fly compilation for example. I was not running the 9.2 version of Rev so there may be some differences consequent on the OS. I got a bit of a surprise myself as, without timing it, Rev seemed to execute a text massaging task a little faster than HC (not identical scripts). I have also observed that Rev receives idle events at half the rate of HC, which may be another reason not to use them in Rev but may also indicate something about the engine activity and spare time. I have not found Rev speed any problem to date. regards David From drvaughan55 at mac.com Mon Feb 11 20:15:01 2002 From: drvaughan55 at mac.com (David Vaughan) Date: Mon Feb 11 20:15:01 2002 Subject: graphic radio buttons In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <96741A62-1F55-11D6-AAA4-000393598038@mac.com> On Tuesday, February 12, 2002, at 11:36 , Scott Raney wrote: > snip > HyperCard *is* faster at field get/set and reformatting. It's just the > price you pay for breaking the 32K and color barriers. Fortunately in > most cases MetaCard's on average 5x better performance on everything > else more than makes up for the on average 2x worse performance on > field access. > Regards, > Scott > Thanks Scott. As I said in a separate reply to Rob, my untimed impression was that Rev was faster for ordinary tasks and it has always been sufficient for me to date. The task I tested involved five separate gets per card so a blowout from roughly 2x to 6x is not so amazing, and in any event, the fairly extensive task did finish in under one second. I have from years of HyperTalk programming the habit of using variables for any list or repetitive task anyway, as was eventually proposed by someone for Pierre's original problem - background-maintain an associative array with data copies for access speed. I do similar to this on my contacts stack which has a couple of thousand entries, and to the user the response is fast and the maintenance seamless. cheers David. From yvescoppe at skynet.be Tue Feb 12 02:27:01 2002 From: yvescoppe at skynet.be (yves COPPE) Date: Tue Feb 12 02:27:01 2002 Subject: Menu Manager Message-ID: Hello, I've made a subtack with a barmenu created with the menu Manager. Now, I go again to the menu manager, click at the btn "edit", see de DLOG : RevmenuDialog, the stack is selected in the popup btn, but the fld below show none of the grps and obviously no grp of the menu. How can I access in the menu manager to modify my existing menu ? Thanks. -- Greetings. Yves COPPE Email : yvescoppe at skynet.be From jeanne at runrev.com Tue Feb 12 02:46:01 2002 From: jeanne at runrev.com (Jeanne A. E. DeVoto) Date: Tue Feb 12 02:46:01 2002 Subject: 1.0 -> 1.1.1 upgrade doc? In-Reply-To: <3C680026.D6342D6A@softcom.net> References: Message-ID: At 9:32 AM -0800 2/11/2002, Mary Vivit wrote: >Is there a document somewhere that describes the new features of 1.1.1 >and the deprecated features of the 1.0 version? Take a look at the 1.1 release notes - there's a long list of additions (and a short list of deletions). I actually don't think anything much has changed for 1.1.1b1 (other than a lot of bug fixes), though there will be a couple of changes to the language for b2 (a new dontUseQTEffects property, ability to specify a starting color in "answer color"). If you have a question about a particular language term, there are also notes in the Dictionary under each language term that's changed, describing how it changed and in what version. -- Jeanne A. E. DeVoto ~ jeanne at runrev.com http://www.runrev.com/ Runtime Revolution Limited - Power to the Developer! From jeanne at runrev.com Tue Feb 12 02:47:03 2002 From: jeanne at runrev.com (Jeanne A. E. DeVoto) Date: Tue Feb 12 02:47:03 2002 Subject: thumbnail In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: At 11:28 PM -0800 2/10/2002, yves COPPE wrote: >>At 12:03 PM -0800 2/10/2002, yves COPPE wrote: >>>I have a substack with many cards. >>>I have to perform some work on each card. >>>I'd like a thumbnail showing the progression of the work >>>So I've created another substack with a thumbnail and a fld (for >>>writing some prompt) >>[...] >>>ask : how can I call my window "myPrompt", let the thumbnail progress >>>and further work on my previous substack ? I am still not completely sure I understand what you need, but how about this: use the insert script command to place the thumbnails stack in the backScripts, and install in it an openCard handler: on openCard if the owner of the target is "Stack I'm Working On" then go card (the short name of this card) of me pass openCard end openCard In this way, the myPrompt stack receives the openCard message; if the stack that received openCard is the one you have thumbnails for, the myPrompt stack automatically switches to the appropriate card. (For example, if you go to card "Foo" in the stack you're working on, the handler automatically switches the myPrompt stack to show card "Foo" in myPrompt as well.) I might not be answering the right question here so please say so if this is not the correct solution for you.... -- Jeanne A. E. DeVoto ~ jeanne at runrev.com http://www.runrev.com/ Runtime Revolution Limited - Power to the Developer! From yvescoppe at skynet.be Tue Feb 12 03:06:01 2002 From: yvescoppe at skynet.be (yves COPPE) Date: Tue Feb 12 03:06:01 2002 Subject: thumbnail In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: > >I am still not completely sure I understand what you need, but how about >this: use the insert script command to place the thumbnails stack in the >backScripts, and install in it an openCard handler: > > on openCard > if the owner of the target is "Stack I'm Working On" > then go card (the short name of this card) of me > pass openCard > end openCard > >In this way, the myPrompt stack receives the openCard message; if the stack >that received openCard is the one you have thumbnails for, the myPrompt >stack automatically switches to the appropriate card. (For example, if you >go to card "Foo" in the stack you're working on, the handler automatically >switches the myPrompt stack to show card "Foo" in myPrompt as well.) > >I might not be answering the right question here so please say so if this >is not the correct solution for you.... > I have to go on each card of a substack "Stack I'm Working On" to make a lot of work and updates. During this operation, I'd like to have a window above the "stack I'm working on" with a progression bar showing the progression of the work. repeat with x = 1 to the number of cds the startValue of the progression bar (scrollbar "myscroll") is 1 the endvalue of the progression bar (scrollbar "myscroll") is the number of cds during the loop, I must have something like : set the thumbposition of scrollbar "myscroll" of stack "MyThumb" to x But I cannot perform it. I thinck it is because I need a lock screen, lock messages? to 1) accelerate the work 2) avoid the user seeing the different cds on the screen I think that's therefor my thumb doesn't move ? What or how ??? I could do it in HC with externals. I'd like to implement something like that in my stacks. Thanks. -- Greetings. Yves COPPE Email : yvescoppe at skynet.be From pixelbird at interisland.net Tue Feb 12 04:57:01 2002 From: pixelbird at interisland.net (Ken Norris (dialup)) Date: Tue Feb 12 04:57:01 2002 Subject: thumbnail In-Reply-To: Message-ID: on 2/12/02 12:03 AM, yves COPPE at yvescoppe at skynet.be wrote: > I have to go on each card of a substack "Stack I'm Working On" to > make a lot of work and updates. > During this operation, I'd like to have a window above the "stack I'm > working on" with a progression bar showing the progression of the > work. ---------- Let me see if I'm getting this. You just want the 'thumbnail' thing to show some movement as you progress from one card to the next as you work on them, not to show an overview of what's been completed in each card. Is this all? If it is, I don't have a script for you, but all you have to do is create a stack with one card and a graphic that increases in width by a pixel or two each time you go to a new (or next) card in the stack you're working on, and show it in a small (thumbnail) palette window. I just suggested that becuase the palette style window has a small header, and it should float over the stack you're working on. However, I thought you wanted a smaller window with a scrollbar to go through the cards in your stack for reference purposes, while you stay on the card you're actually working on. This seems like it has more value than a simple progress bar. If this is what you want, take a look at the RevExample in the Development menu for ideas. What I thought about doing was a bit more ambitious. I was considering making a thumbnail palette stack that automatically copies each card you make when you move to the next card, resizing it with the geometry manager on the fly. This way, you could navigate a miniature for reference of what you've done so far, while staying on the same card in the original. Should be doable. Best regards, Ken N. From matt.denton at limelight.com.au Tue Feb 12 08:15:01 2002 From: matt.denton at limelight.com.au (Matt Denton) Date: Tue Feb 12 08:15:01 2002 Subject: Tips and the Rev site In-Reply-To: <200202120004.TAA01815@www.runrev.com> Message-ID: Hello dear list, I'd like to suggest perhaps there could be user contributions to the Tip of the Week on the Rev site, moderated and edited by the Rev team. I *absolutely* love this list, very kind and helpful comments, always a friendly hand ready to help and also debate. However when off the list, I'm always trawling for more Rev specific info and the poor ol' Rev site seems to lack any new and regular content (I'm usually checking to see if 1.1.b2 has arrived). Sadly between MetaCard, Rev and the old Hypercard sites, the only really good hot Rev info is on dis 'ere Rev list. I know it is all *coming*... I can guess how hard the Rev team is working on 1.1.1 b2 bbb-but perhaps a tip of the week could be worked on jointly and finally checked and tidied up by the Rev team. Perhaps they could even suggest the topics?? Save having to rename 'Tip of the Week' to 'Tip of the month'. Suggested tips: Working with the internet, sockets and communication in Rev Managing memory: When to Destroy Stack and Destroy Window etc. Is this all too ambitious? I'm certainly no Rev genius, but I'd like to help in some small way. Any ideas how we could all work on this? chow, Matt Denton From iansummerfield at btconnect.com Tue Feb 12 09:07:01 2002 From: iansummerfield at btconnect.com (Ian Summerfield) Date: Tue Feb 12 09:07:01 2002 Subject: Revolution much slower then Hypercard In-Reply-To: Message-ID: I made a few changes that make a huge difference. Mainly drag is much much much faster than click at on mouseUp select card image 1 delete card image 1 put 300 into XX put 300 into YY put 200 into RR choose brush tool set brush to 32 set brushcolor to "blue" put -((pi/2)-(pi/584)) into Rad put 1.5*pi into dest -- don't calculate the loop destination each time put (2*pi)/584 into pi2 -- don't calculate the increment each time set lockmessages to true -- actually little difference repeat until Rad>=dest put XX+RR*cos (Rad) into x put YY+RR*sin (Rad) into y drag from x,y to x,y add pi2 to Rad end repeat set lockmessages to false choose browse tool end mouseUp > Ken, > > Can you speed this up? > > on mouseUp > select card image 1 > delete card image 1 > put 300 into XX > put 300 into YY > put 200 into RR > choose brush tool > set brush to 32 > set brushcolor to "blue" > put -((pi/2)-(pi/584)) into Rad > > repeat until Rad>=1.5*pi > click at XX+round(RR*cos (Rad)),YY+round(RR*sin (Rad)) > add (2*pi)/584 to Rad > end repeat > > choose browse tool > end mouseUp > > There's slow and then there's slow. > > Nelson > > _______________________________________________ > use-revolution mailing list > use-revolution at lists.runrev.com > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution From mark_mitchell at kmug.org Tue Feb 12 09:24:01 2002 From: mark_mitchell at kmug.org (Mark Mitchell) Date: Tue Feb 12 09:24:01 2002 Subject: how find parent app? In-Reply-To: <200202120001.TAA01740@www.runrev.com> References: <200202120001.TAA01740@www.runrev.com> Message-ID: This is probably a stupid question, but: I want to be able to open a word processing document with its own parent application. For example, launch file myfile with myApp Is there a way to automatically determine what myApp should be? Really, I just want the file to open as if I had clicked on it in the finder. So should I be using an appleScript? thanks, mark mitchell japan From yvescoppe at skynet.be Tue Feb 12 10:10:01 2002 From: yvescoppe at skynet.be (yves COPPE) Date: Tue Feb 12 10:10:01 2002 Subject: how find parent app? In-Reply-To: References: <200202120001.TAA01740@www.runrev.com> Message-ID: >?This is probably a stupid question, but: >I want to be able to open a word processing document with its own >parent application. For example, > >launch file myfile with myApp > >Is there a way to automatically determine what myApp should be? >Really, I just >want the file to open as if I had clicked on it in the finder. So >should I be using an appleScript? > >thanks, >mark mitchell >japan > There is, for Macinotsh, an external on the website of RR that does exactly what you want. The name is "externals collection for macOS" or something like that. Cheers. -- Greetings. Yves COPPE Email : yvescoppe at skynet.be From kevin at runrev.com Tue Feb 12 11:18:01 2002 From: kevin at runrev.com (Kevin Miller) Date: Tue Feb 12 11:18:01 2002 Subject: Tips and the Rev site In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On 12/2/02 1:10 pm, Matt Denton wrote: > Hello dear list, > > I'd like to suggest perhaps there could be user contributions to the Tip > of the Week on the Rev site, moderated and edited by the Rev team. I > *absolutely* love this list, very kind and helpful comments, always a > friendly hand ready to help and also debate. > > However when off the list, I'm always trawling for more Rev specific > info and the poor ol' Rev site seems to lack any new and regular content > (I'm usually checking to see if 1.1.b2 has arrived). Sadly between > MetaCard, Rev and the old Hypercard sites, the only really good hot Rev > info is on dis 'ere Rev list. I know it is all *coming*... > > I can guess how hard the Rev team is working on 1.1.1 b2 bbb-but perhaps > a tip of the week could be worked on jointly and finally checked and > tidied up by the Rev team. Perhaps they could even suggest the > topics?? Save having to rename 'Tip of the Week' to 'Tip of the month'. > > Suggested tips: > > Working with the internet, sockets and communication in Rev > Managing memory: When to Destroy Stack and Destroy Window > etc. > > Is this all too ambitious? I'm certainly no Rev genius, but I'd like to > help in some small way. Any ideas how we could all work on this? Submit anything and if it is well written we will post it. Some decent advancements coming soon though. Kevin Miller Runtime Revolution Limited - Power to the Developer! Tel: +44 (0) 870 747 1165. Fax: +44 (0)1639 830 707. From csilverm at acs.ryerson.ca Tue Feb 12 11:26:01 2002 From: csilverm at acs.ryerson.ca (Charles Silverman) Date: Tue Feb 12 11:26:01 2002 Subject: Repeats and mouse events Message-ID: Hi, This bit of code doesn't work right (though in Supercard it's fine) I've seen recommendations for using "send" but don't I open up to other inadvertent/undesirable user events or processes happening. I need to keep the user focused within a specific loop. Am I missing something? Here's the kind of code I'm talking about. In this example the script goes into a btn and there's a single fld . Warning... This code has crashed Rev and frozen my computer (Mac Pismo PB). The larger purpose of this code is for the creation of single switch software for kids who can't manipulate a keyboard but can press and release switches. I've been doing this stuff for years in SuperCard. I need to carefully scrutinize switch (mouse btn in this case) activity to accommodate for a variety of behaviors. The code strategy below is what I traditionally use for hiliting a series of objects (btns, flds, text within field, etc.) one at a time, for a duration of time, and as well, using the amount of time involved in mouse downs and ups to create multiple signal possibilities. Any thoughts on this appreciated. -Charles Silverman -- On mousedown get flushevents("mousedown") End mousedown On mouseup Put the seconds into tStartHere Repeat put the seconds - tStartHere into tTimeNow if tTimeNow > 15 then exit repeat if the mouse is down then put "You got It" into fld 1 beep wait until the mouse is up exit repeat end if end Repeat Put "" into fld 1 End mouseup -- From gcanyon at inspiredlogic.com Tue Feb 12 11:34:01 2002 From: gcanyon at inspiredlogic.com (Geoff Canyon) Date: Tue Feb 12 11:34:01 2002 Subject: thumbnail In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: At 9:03 AM +0100 2/12/02, yves COPPE wrote: >But I cannot perform it. I thinck it is because I need a lock screen, lock messages? to >1) accelerate the work >2) avoid the user seeing the different cds on the screen >I think that's therefor my thumb doesn't move ? Ah -- now it seems clear. You are right that the lock screen is stopping the progress bar doesn't move. In order to accomplish that, you need to unlock (and then re-lock) the screen periodically through the process -- once each card sounds like it would meet your needs. If you are doing screen captures, you need to unlock the screen for that as well. If you want to hide the progress of the cards, but show the progress bar, you can either script the stack to return to the starting card right before you unlock the screen each time, or just put a graphic over the stack, perhaps. Either of these would prevent screen shots from working. regards, geoff From rcozens at pon.net Tue Feb 12 12:43:01 2002 From: rcozens at pon.net (Rob Cozens) Date: Tue Feb 12 12:43:01 2002 Subject: graphic radio buttons In-Reply-To: References: <200202120002.TAA01771@www.runrev.com> Message-ID: >HyperCard *is* faster at field get/set and reformatting. It's just the >price you pay for breaking the 32K and color barriers. I can certainly understand that, Scott, and it brings up another question: With color built in, is there any porential performance advantage in keeping a performance-sensitive stack b&w? This may sound off-the-wall; but suppose David Vaughan's task handler needed a simple operator's interface where color wasn't essential...would such a stack gain any performance if left b&w? Rob Cozens CCW, Serendipity Software Company "And I, which was two fooles, do so grow three; Who are a little wise, the best fooles bee." from "The Triple Foole" by John Donne (1572-1631) From fuegox at mac.com Tue Feb 12 12:48:01 2002 From: fuegox at mac.com (Mark Talluto) Date: Tue Feb 12 12:48:01 2002 Subject: OS X Printing Problem In-Reply-To: <200202120002.TAA01771@www.runrev.com> Message-ID: <547D7BE6-1FE0-11D6-AEA4-003065B78238@mac.com> > > I have an application that as a standalone will print the text in a > field > under OS 9.2 without any problem. Using the same stack in a standalone > under OS X, the printing won't work. Has anyone had similar problems > with > printing in OS X? > > Under OS X the printing just hangs and can't be cancelled. This is true > under the standalone application as well as in the OS X version of > RunRev > under browse or suspend UI. > > -- > bfether at mac.com > Salem, OR USA What version of OS X are you using? Is it up to date (10.1.2) with the latest printer drivers? I print to OS X all the time in MC and have had no problems. Still get that gray background once in a while in 9 and less often in X. Other than that, all should be well. -Mark Talluto From iansummerfield at btconnect.com Tue Feb 12 12:52:03 2002 From: iansummerfield at btconnect.com (Ian Summerfield) Date: Tue Feb 12 12:52:03 2002 Subject: Repeats and mouse events In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On my machine, PowerMac G3 450Mhz, running Revolution 1.1.1b1 under OS X, it doesn't work, I changed your "wait until the mouse is up" statement to a loop: Repeat until the optionkey is down put the mouse End repeat Clicking the mouse doesn't change to "up" or "down" as you might expect, so I think your "wait until the mouse is up" will never happen. It returns the mouse to be down no matter what. I think this sort of behaviour is related to the fact that my mouse often seems to be stuck in a down position now allowing me to click anything, I solve it by switching out of revolution and back in again. I had the same behaviour under OS 9 using 1.1.1b1 and 1.1. While I'm on the subject, I just lost my script editor window, I can't get it back, the tab has disappeared from the properties palette. I wondered if it was hidden so I put the name of window 1, 2, 3, 4, etc. There's some interesting windows kicking around that don't seem to need being open, they're all to do with the Revolution UI. If I show some of them using "show window 4 at 100,100" nothing happens. I wondered if my Revolution was ignoring all commands, so I keyed in "beep 5" and got 4 beeps. I keyed "beep 7" and got 6 beeps. Mmmmm....revolution can't count now! -i- On 12/2/02 4:23 pm, "Charles Silverman" scribed: > Hi, > This bit of code doesn't work right (though in Supercard it's fine) I've > seen recommendations for using "send" but don't I open up to other > inadvertent/undesirable user events or processes happening. I need to keep > the user focused within a specific loop. Am I missing something? > > Here's the kind of code I'm talking about. In this example the script goes > into a btn and there's a single fld . Warning... This code has crashed Rev > and frozen my computer (Mac Pismo PB). > > The larger purpose of this code is for the creation of single switch > software for kids who can't manipulate a keyboard but can press and release > switches. I've been doing this stuff for years in SuperCard. I need to > carefully scrutinize switch (mouse btn in this case) activity to accommodate > for a variety of behaviors. The code strategy below is what I traditionally > use for hiliting a series of objects (btns, flds, text within field, etc.) > one at a time, for a duration of time, and as well, using the amount of time > involved in mouse downs and ups to create multiple signal possibilities. > > Any thoughts on this appreciated. > > -Charles Silverman > > > -- > On mousedown > get flushevents("mousedown") > End mousedown > > On mouseup > Put the seconds into tStartHere > Repeat > put the seconds - tStartHere into tTimeNow > if tTimeNow > 15 then exit repeat > if the mouse is down then > put "You got It" into fld 1 > beep > wait until the mouse is up > exit repeat > end if > end Repeat > Put "" into fld 1 > End mouseup > -- > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > use-revolution mailing list > use-revolution at lists.runrev.com > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution ---------------------------------- Ian Summerfield Macintosh Consultant - Hastings UK ICQ: 4378866 ---------------------------------- This E-mail is from Ian Summerfield's home system. The contents and any attachments to it include information that is private and confidential and should only be read by those persons to whom they are addressed. Ian accepts no liability for any loss or damage suffered by any person arising from the use of this e-mail. Ian does not accept any responsibility for viruses and it is your responsibility to check the email and attachments (if any). If you have received this e-mail in error, please destroy and delete the message from your computer. From yvescoppe at skynet.be Tue Feb 12 13:06:00 2002 From: yvescoppe at skynet.be (yves COPPE) Date: Tue Feb 12 13:06:00 2002 Subject: thumbnail In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: >At 9:03 AM +0100 2/12/02, yves COPPE wrote: >>But I cannot perform it. I thinck it is because I need a lock >>screen, lock messages? to >>1) accelerate the work >>2) avoid the user seeing the different cds on the screen >>I think that's therefor my thumb doesn't move ? > >Ah -- now it seems clear. You are right that the lock screen is >stopping the progress bar doesn't move. In order to accomplish that, >you need to unlock (and then re-lock) the screen periodically >through the process -- once each card sounds like it would meet your >needs. > >If you are doing screen captures, you need to unlock the screen for >that as well. If you want to hide the progress of the cards, but >show the progress bar, you can either script the stack to return to >the starting card right before you unlock the screen each time, or >just put a graphic over the stack, perhaps. Either of these would >prevent screen shots from working. > >regards, > >geoff >_______________________________________________ 1) difficult to do 2) slows down the script. I must "visit" ?2000 cds ! Any other idea ? Thanks. -- Greetings. Yves COPPE Email : yvescoppe at skynet.be From gcanyon at inspiredlogic.com Tue Feb 12 13:42:07 2002 From: gcanyon at inspiredlogic.com (Geoff Canyon) Date: Tue Feb 12 13:42:07 2002 Subject: thumbnail In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: At 7:02 PM +0100 2/12/02, yves COPPE wrote: >1) difficult to do >2) slows down the script. I must "visit" ?2000 cds ! It sounds like you're _not_ doing screenshots (sorry, I misinterpreted the use of "thumbnail"). Based on that, you _don't_ need to go to the 2000 cards. You can make whatever changes you like simply by fully referencing everything: set the loc of button "someButton" of cd 1257 of stack "workStack" to 50,200 It would be faster to set the defaultStack property first, however: set the defaultStack to "workStack" lock messages repeat with i=1 to 2000 --make changes, for example: set the loc of button "someButton" of cd i to 50,200 end repeat If the changes you are making are slight, then the limiting factor on how fast your script will run is the progressbar itself. Instead of updating it 2000 times, once for each card, update it every 10 cards: repeat with i = 1 to 2000 if i mod 10 is 0 then -- update the progressBar end repeat regards, Geoff From usher at iqcisp.com Tue Feb 12 14:29:01 2002 From: usher at iqcisp.com (Philip Usher) Date: Tue Feb 12 14:29:01 2002 Subject: Repeats and mouse events In-Reply-To: <200202121628.LAA13759@www.runrev.com> Message-ID: Charles, I think the problem in your script is the "wait until the mouse is up" command inside the mouseUp handler. Not sure if this is exactly what you wanted or not but this soultion requires handlers in both the card and the button: --card script: global gWait on mouseUp if gWait is true then put "" into fld 1 put false into gWait end if end mouseUp --button script: global gWait on mouseUp if gWait is true then pass mouseUp Put the seconds into tStartHere repeat if (the seconds - tStartHere) > 15 then exit repeat if the mouse is down then put "You got It" into fld 1 put true into gWait exit mouseUp end if end repeat End mouseUp From yvescoppe at skynet.be Tue Feb 12 14:38:01 2002 From: yvescoppe at skynet.be (yves COPPE) Date: Tue Feb 12 14:38:01 2002 Subject: thumbnail In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hello, >If the changes you are making are slight, then the limiting factor >on how fast your script will run is the progressbar itself. Instead >of updating it 2000 times, once for each card, update it every 10 >cards: > >repeat with i = 1 to 2000 >if i mod 10 is 0 then -- update the progressBar >end repeat > >regards, > >Geoff > Sorry if I'm annoying but I repaet that I could do it so easy earlier in HC with an external. if I do what you say above, my progression bar works by break instead of moving slightly and proportional to the end? Thanks. -- Greetings. Yves COPPE Email : yvescoppe at skynet.be From drvaughan55 at mac.com Tue Feb 12 17:02:01 2002 From: drvaughan55 at mac.com (David Vaughan) Date: Tue Feb 12 17:02:01 2002 Subject: Repeats and mouse events and documentation In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Charles As someone posted recently, it really helps if you post the specific purpose of your code as well as the fragment. That saves effort on our part trying to distinguish coding intentions from coding mistakes, leaving us more time to be helpful. Is it your intention that - one click on the mouse does nothing (from the user view) - two clicks within fifteen seconds generates a reward message, which disappears on mouseUp - no other events are accepted after the first mouseClick until timeout or a second click on the same button thanks David On Wednesday, February 13, 2002, at 03:23 , Charles Silverman wrote: > Hi, > This bit of code doesn't work right (though in Supercard it's fine) > I've > seen recommendations for using "send" but don't I open up to other > inadvertent/undesirable user events or processes happening. I need to > keep > the user focused within a specific loop. Am I missing something? > > Here's the kind of code I'm talking about. In this example the script > goes > into a btn and there's a single fld . Warning... This code has crashed > Rev > and frozen my computer (Mac Pismo PB). > > The larger purpose of this code is for the creation of single switch > software for kids who can't manipulate a keyboard but can press and > release > switches. I've been doing this stuff for years in SuperCard. I need to > carefully scrutinize switch (mouse btn in this case) activity to > accommodate > for a variety of behaviors. The code strategy below is what I > traditionally > use for hiliting a series of objects (btns, flds, text within field, > etc.) > one at a time, for a duration of time, and as well, using the amount of > time > involved in mouse downs and ups to create multiple signal possibilities. > > Any thoughts on this appreciated. > > -Charles Silverman > > > -- > On mousedown > get flushevents("mousedown") > End mousedown > > On mouseup > Put the seconds into tStartHere > Repeat > put the seconds - tStartHere into tTimeNow > if tTimeNow > 15 then exit repeat > if the mouse is down then > put "You got It" into fld 1 > beep > wait until the mouse is up > exit repeat > end if > end Repeat > Put "" into fld 1 > End mouseup > -- > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > use-revolution mailing list > use-revolution at lists.runrev.com > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution > From drvaughan55 at mac.com Tue Feb 12 17:19:01 2002 From: drvaughan55 at mac.com (David Vaughan) Date: Tue Feb 12 17:19:01 2002 Subject: thumbnail In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <17CC976E-2006-11D6-8353-000393598038@mac.com> On Wednesday, February 13, 2002, at 06:34 , yves COPPE wrote: > Hello, > > >> If the changes you are making are slight, then the limiting factor on >> how fast your script will run is the progressbar itself. Instead of >> updating it 2000 times, once for each card, update it every 10 cards: >> >> repeat with i = 1 to 2000 >> if i mod 10 is 0 then -- update the progressBar >> end repeat >> >> regards, >> >> Geoff >> > > > Sorry if I'm annoying but I repaet that I could do it so easy earlier > in HC with an external. > if I do what you say above, my progression bar works by break instead > of moving slightly and proportional to the end? Yves You have a solution where you can choose your compromise between jerkiness and speed and the result may not be ideal for you because once upon a time you could do it better in another language with a one-off add-on on a single platform. I just checked and I have over 200 HyperCard externals in my library, of which I wrote precisely 130 myself (including a progress bar of course). Many of my own do things with a speed, efficiency and feature set I love and miss, but in moving to Rev I have simply ditched the lot because Rev's compatibility with HC is only there to make my transition easier. It does not mean the world is the same. I will not use externals any longer because they are not cross-platform, and that is the price I pay. Now, write to improve-revolution and ask for a progress bar to be added to Rev. cheers & regards David > > Thanks. > -- Greetings. > > Yves COPPE > > Email : yvescoppe at skynet.be > _______________________________________________ > use-revolution mailing list > use-revolution at lists.runrev.com > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution > From gcanyon at inspiredlogic.com Tue Feb 12 18:27:01 2002 From: gcanyon at inspiredlogic.com (Geoff Canyon) Date: Tue Feb 12 18:27:01 2002 Subject: thumbnail In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: At 8:34 PM +0100 2/12/02, yves COPPE wrote: >Sorry if I'm annoying but I repaet that I could do it so easy earlier in HC with an external. >if I do what you say above, my progression bar works by break instead of moving slightly and proportional to the end? I'm assuming your progress bar isn't overly large or small. If (for example) it is 200 pixels wide, then with 2000 cards if you update the progress bar every ten cards, it will update perfectly, moving one pixel at a time. If you update it 2000 times, you are updating it ten times for every pixel that it can move, which is unnecessary. regards, Geoff From curry at kagi.com Tue Feb 12 18:33:01 2002 From: curry at kagi.com (Curry) Date: Tue Feb 12 18:33:01 2002 Subject: OT: adding OSX In-Reply-To: <200202121704.MAA15424@www.runrev.com> Message-ID: If anyone in the know could reply off-list.... I want to test software on OSX, but my budget doesn't allow buying a new computer for a while. I'm considering buying OSX alone, and this is where I need advice. I want to keep my orginal hard drive untouched, and just boot OSX from another drive now and then for testing or fooling around with OSX software. Does the OSX package have a CD that can boot the computer on OSX 10.1? Or, can it be installed on a zip drive and use that as the startup disk? Or would I have to get a second hard drive? (This is iMac Rev B, so only USB, no firewire.) Thanks very much, Curry Kenworthy From bvlahos at jpl.nasa.gov Tue Feb 12 18:56:01 2002 From: bvlahos at jpl.nasa.gov (Bill Vlahos) Date: Tue Feb 12 18:56:01 2002 Subject: OT: adding OSX In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Curry, While what you suggest might be possible (although I doubt it), I think your caution is unwarranted. Switching from OS X to 9 and back is very simple-just select the correct Startup Disk control panel/system preference and restart the computer. Even if you could boot from a USB hard drive, the performance would be poor. This would be feasible if you had a FireWire drive. Bill Vlahos On Tuesday, February 12, 2002, at 03:26 PM, Curry wrote: > If anyone in the know could reply off-list.... > > I want to test software on OSX, but my budget doesn't allow buying a new > computer for a while. I'm considering buying OSX alone, and this is > where I > need advice. I want to keep my orginal hard drive untouched, and just > boot > OSX from another drive now and then for testing or fooling around with > OSX > software. Does the OSX package have a CD that can boot the computer on > OSX > 10.1? Or, can it be installed on a zip drive and use that as the startup > disk? Or would I have to get a second hard drive? (This is iMac Rev B, > so > only USB, no firewire.) > > Thanks very much, > > Curry Kenworthy > > > _______________________________________________ > use-revolution mailing list > use-revolution at lists.runrev.com > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution From devin_asay at byu.edu Tue Feb 12 18:57:00 2002 From: devin_asay at byu.edu (Devin Asay) Date: Tue Feb 12 18:57:00 2002 Subject: displaying a web image Message-ID: I know this has been addressed here before, but I've been unable to locate the message. How do I display an image from a web server in an image object? Devin -- Devin Asay Humanities Research Center Brigham Young University From jeanne at runrev.com Tue Feb 12 19:07:00 2002 From: jeanne at runrev.com (Jeanne A. E. DeVoto) Date: Tue Feb 12 19:07:00 2002 Subject: displaying a web image In-Reply-To: Message-ID: At 3:53 PM -0800 2/12/2002, Devin Asay wrote: >I know this has been addressed here before, but I've been unable to >locate the message. > >How do I display an image from a web server in an image object? Set its filename property to the image's URL: set the filename of image "My Image" to "http://www.example.org/image.gif" -- Jeanne A. E. DeVoto ~ jeanne at runrev.com http://www.runrev.com/ Runtime Revolution Limited - Power to the Developer! From Roger.E.Eller at sealedair.com Tue Feb 12 19:35:01 2002 From: Roger.E.Eller at sealedair.com (Roger.E.Eller at sealedair.com) Date: Tue Feb 12 19:35:01 2002 Subject: Listing files with a wildcard Message-ID: Hi, Does anyone know how to isolate a file list by wildcards? I have a directory containing 15000+ files, but I only want to see a listing of the ones whos filename begins with "HAPPY" for example. I don't want to waste time getting the entire files list then filtering it down. Any ideas are appreciated. ~Roger Eller From pixelbird at interisland.net Tue Feb 12 21:05:01 2002 From: pixelbird at interisland.net (Ken Norris (dialup)) Date: Tue Feb 12 21:05:01 2002 Subject: thumbnail In-Reply-To: Message-ID: on 2/12/02 3:26 PM, Geoff Canyon at gcanyon at inspiredlogic.com wrote: > At 8:34 PM +0100 2/12/02, yves COPPE wrote: >> Sorry if I'm annoying but I repaet that I could do it so easy earlier in HC >> with an external. >> if I do what you say above, my progression bar works by break instead of >> moving slightly and proportional to the end? > > I'm assuming your progress bar isn't overly large or small. If (for example) > it is 200 pixels wide, then with 2000 cards if you update the progress bar > every ten cards, it will update perfectly, moving one pixel at a time. If you > update it 2000 times, you are updating it ten times for every pixel that it > can move, which is unnecessary. ---------- yves, I agee, this should work for you if you set the increments correctly. In HC I have 4 styles of progress bars, none of which require an X-thing. One of them is a cute little train that uses an addColor pict with a scrolling Picture window. In fact, I'm thinking about adding a bridge and waterfall to it. The point, though, is that you don't need an external for a progress bar, in HC, and certainly not in RR. Best regards, Ken N. From pixelbird at interisland.net Tue Feb 12 22:29:01 2002 From: pixelbird at interisland.net (Ken Norris (dialup)) Date: Tue Feb 12 22:29:01 2002 Subject: Scrolling images and graphics In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Hi, back again, What is the process for making an image or graphic scroll in a window? HyperCard has a Picture XCMD which allows you to reposition an image which is larger than the window, under script control. You can use a repeat loop to move it by changing its loc coordinates inside the window for scrolling animation effects. How do I do this in RR? Ken N. From jeanne at runrev.com Tue Feb 12 23:01:00 2002 From: jeanne at runrev.com (Jeanne A. E. DeVoto) Date: Tue Feb 12 23:01:00 2002 Subject: Scrolling images and graphics In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: At 7:38 PM -0800 2/12/2002, Ken Norris (dialup) wrote: >Hi, back again, > >What is the process for making an image or graphic scroll in a window? Group the image, then set the group's hScroll and/or vScroll properties as desired. (If you want visible scrollbars, set the group's hScrollbar and/or vScrollbar properties to true.) You will also need to set the group's lockLocation property to true to avoid having it resize automatically to fit the image. -- Jeanne A. E. DeVoto ~ jeanne at runrev.com http://www.runrev.com/ Runtime Revolution Limited - Power to the Developer! From shaosean at unitz.ca Wed Feb 13 00:34:01 2002 From: shaosean at unitz.ca (Shao Sean) Date: Wed Feb 13 00:34:01 2002 Subject: Listing files with a wildcard References: Message-ID: <004601c1b44f$abda48b0$88b15bd1@dreamlanpc> i believe the "files" command will only grab the entire list, but it's fast.. then use the "filter" command (i think i got the names right).. it's what's used to do the reference library filter.. ----- Original Message ----- > Does anyone know how to isolate a file list by wildcards? I have a > directory containing 15000+ files, but I only want to see a listing of the > ones whos filename begins with "HAPPY" for example. I don't want to waste > time getting the entire files list then filtering it down. Any ideas are > appreciated. From leep at mac.com Wed Feb 13 01:38:01 2002 From: leep at mac.com (Lee Perham) Date: Wed Feb 13 01:38:01 2002 Subject: OS X Printing Problem Message-ID: Date: Mon, 11 Feb 2002 14:28:26 -0800 Subject: OS X Printing Problem From: "Ben C. Fetherston, Jr." To: Reply-To: use-revolution at lists.runrev.com I have an application that as a standalone will print the text in a field under OS 9.2 without any problem. Using the same stack in a standalone under OS X, the printing won't work. Has anyone had similar problems with printing in OS X? Under OS X the printing just hangs and can't be cancelled. This is true under the standalone application as well as in the OS X version of RunRev under browse or suspend UI. -- bfether at mac.com Salem, OR USA This is a known bug. I've reported it before. The same thing happens with revPrintField or when printing a long script in OSX. ~ Lee Perham From drvaughan55 at mac.com Wed Feb 13 02:05:00 2002 From: drvaughan55 at mac.com (David Vaughan) Date: Wed Feb 13 02:05:00 2002 Subject: OS X Printing Problem In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Lee Sorry to ask such an obvious question, but I have never had a problem printing under OSX (Rev or anything else) so I just have to do it: do you have other Cocoa or Carbon apps printing successfully under OSX, not in Classic? How is your printer connected? thanks David On Wednesday, February 13, 2002, at 05:35 , Lee Perham wrote: > > Date: Mon, 11 Feb 2002 14:28:26 -0800 > Subject: OS X Printing Problem > From: "Ben C. Fetherston, Jr." > To: > Reply-To: use-revolution at lists.runrev.com > > I have an application that as a standalone will print the text in a > field > under OS 9.2 without any problem. Using the same stack in a standalone > under OS X, the printing won't work. Has anyone had similar problems > with > printing in OS X? > > Under OS X the printing just hangs and can't be cancelled. This is true > under the standalone application as well as in the OS X version of > RunRev > under browse or suspend UI. > > -- > bfether at mac.com > Salem, OR USA > > This is a known bug. I've reported it before. The same thing happens > with revPrintField or when printing a long script in OSX. > > ~ Lee Perham > > _______________________________________________ > use-revolution mailing list > use-revolution at lists.runrev.com > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution > From yvescoppe at skynet.be Wed Feb 13 02:07:01 2002 From: yvescoppe at skynet.be (yves COPPE) Date: Wed Feb 13 02:07:01 2002 Subject: thumbnail In-Reply-To: <17CC976E-2006-11D6-8353-000393598038@mac.com> References: <17CC976E-2006-11D6-8353-000393598038@mac.com> Message-ID: >Yves > >You have a solution where you can choose your compromise between >jerkiness and speed and the result may not be ideal for you because >once upon a time you could do it better in another language with a >one-off add-on on a single platform. > >I just checked and I have over 200 HyperCard externals in my >library, of which I wrote precisely 130 myself (including a progress >bar of course). Many of my own do things with a speed, efficiency >and feature set I love and miss, but in moving to Rev I have simply >ditched the lot because Rev's compatibility with HC is only there to >make my transition easier. It does not mean the world is the same. I >will not use externals any longer because they are not >cross-platform, and that is the price I pay. > >Now, write to improve-revolution and ask for a progress bar to be >added to Rev. > >cheers & regards >David It's the voice of wisdom. Thanks. -- Greetings. Yves COPPE Email : yvescoppe at skynet.be From tim at leftbrainmedia.com Wed Feb 13 04:38:12 2002 From: tim at leftbrainmedia.com (Tim Bobo) Date: Wed Feb 13 04:38:12 2002 Subject: CGI Creation Message-ID: Can anyone point me in the direction of any documentation about how to use Revolution for CGI creation? -- Tim Bobo http://www.leftbrainmedia.com tim at leftbrainmedia.com From pixelbird at interisland.net Wed Feb 13 05:48:01 2002 From: pixelbird at interisland.net (Ken Norris (dialup)) Date: Wed Feb 13 05:48:01 2002 Subject: Stack window offset, won't return In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Hello, Well, I'm slowly trying to solve crash problems with RR. I finally got my full screen background image aboard. I positioned the stack window full screen: 0,0,800,600, and the image lays right in it OK, but, when I close and reopen, it somehow ends up dropped down 61 pixels, looks like where edge of the icon task bar goes (I have them off). How do I stop this from happening? Best regards, Ken N. From pixelbird at interisland.net Wed Feb 13 05:57:00 2002 From: pixelbird at interisland.net (Ken Norris (dialup)) Date: Wed Feb 13 05:57:00 2002 Subject: Active field borders and scrollbars In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Hi again, When I click in a field to type in it, it lites up a red border around it along with starting the I-beam cursor. How do I prevent the 'active border' from showing? I made my first scrolling field, but it doesn't scroll, has no scrollbar. What's with that? Where is the scrollbar? Best regards, Ken N. From yvescoppe at skynet.be Wed Feb 13 06:05:01 2002 From: yvescoppe at skynet.be (yves COPPE) Date: Wed Feb 13 06:05:01 2002 Subject: Active field borders and scrollbars In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: >Hi again, > >When I click in a field to type in it, it lites up a red border around it >along with starting the I-beam cursor. How do I prevent the 'active border' >from showing? don't check or uncheck "show focus border" in the properties palette >I made my first scrolling field, but it doesn't scroll, has no scrollbar. >What's with that? Where is the scrollbar? > don't understand why ? Cheers. -- Greetings. Yves COPPE Email : yvescoppe at skynet.be From wmb at internettrainer.com Wed Feb 13 07:56:01 2002 From: wmb at internettrainer.com (Wolfgang M. Bereuter) Date: Wed Feb 13 07:56:01 2002 Subject: save-bug? Message-ID: Hallo, Seems thats a bug. MacOS 9.1 rev 1.1.1.b1 Save the stack works fine: 1 from top menu and 2 cmd+s if the button messages off is selected then save the stack works fine: 1 from top menu *not* with cmd+s: it opens the "open stack" dialog regards Wolfgang M. Bereuter Learn easy with trainingsmaps and outliner INTERNETTRAINER Wolfgang M. Bereuter Edelhofg. 17/11, A-1180 Wien, Austria ............................... http://www.internettrainer.com wmb at internettrainer.com ............................... Tel: ++43/1/ 961 0418 Fax: ++43/1/ 479 2539 From kmajor at metascape.org Wed Feb 13 08:09:01 2002 From: kmajor at metascape.org (Klaus Major) Date: Wed Feb 13 08:09:01 2002 Subject: Stack window offset, won't return In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <7EC37790-2082-11D6-A792-003065D52E8E@metascape.org> Hi Ken, > Hello, > > Well, I'm slowly trying to solve crash problems with RR. > > I finally got my full screen background image aboard. > > I positioned the stack window full screen: 0,0,800,600, and the image > lays > right in it OK, but, when I close and reopen, it somehow ends up dropped > down 61 pixels, looks like where edge of the icon task bar goes (I have > them > off). How do I stop this from happening? > > Best regards, > Ken N. maybe this doesn't apply to you, but i had trouble when displaying a stack fullscreen, too. on preOpenStack set the decorations of me to empty set the backdrop to black hide menubar if the screenrect is 0,0,1024,768 then set the windowboundingrect to 0,0,1024,768 set the loc of me to 512,384 set the rect of me to 0,0,1024,768 else set the loc of me to the screenloc end if ..... end preOpenStack There is this issue with the windowboundingrect, which is different than desired in most cases ;-) I had the problem to display my stack (1024 * 768) fullscreen if the screenresolution was the same size. There was always a part cutt-off of that stack as well on the top as on the bottom. With this script i had no more problems. Check it out... Hope this helps... Regards Klaus Major kmajor at metascape.org From kmajor at metascape.org Wed Feb 13 08:11:03 2002 From: kmajor at metascape.org (Klaus Major) Date: Wed Feb 13 08:11:03 2002 Subject: Active field borders and scrollbars In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Hi Ken, > Hi again, > > When I click in a field to type in it, it lites up a red border around > it > along with starting the I-beam cursor. How do I prevent the 'active > border' > from showing? > > I made my first scrolling field, but it doesn't scroll, has no > scrollbar. > What's with that? Where is the scrollbar? Maybe this is a silly question: Do you already have text in that field ? The scrollbars of a field do only appear when the text "overflows"... Regards Klaus Major kmajor at metascape.org From mark_mitchell at kmug.org Wed Feb 13 09:38:01 2002 From: mark_mitchell at kmug.org (Mark Mitchell) Date: Wed Feb 13 09:38:01 2002 Subject: OSX In-Reply-To: <200202130008.TAA26486@www.runrev.com> References: <200202130008.TAA26486@www.runrev.com> Message-ID: >>use-revolution at lists.runrev.com writes: >I'm considering buying OSX alone, and this is where I >need advice. I want to keep my orginal hard drive untouched, and just boot >OSX from another drive now and then for testing or fooling around with OSX software. Does the OSX package have a CD that can boot the computer on OSX 10.1? Just make sure you have a lot of RAM (more than 250 if possible) and sufficient space on the HD. You don't even have to reboot to switch back and forth. If you click on a classic app, including one made with Rev, it will automatically switch to OS9 and vice versa. In fact, the most convenient way to get at the OS 9 control panel or apple menu is just to fire up a classic app. which switches you back to OS9. In addition, make sure to update OS9 and X to the latest available. Software update will not work for this unless you have already installed 'security update' and 'installer update' (and installer update will not install unless you have first installed 'security update'...sigh). It's a great OS, but even the latest update, which supposedly has better net-working abilities, still has problems with my LAN. So, for the moment, I've switched back to OS9.2, the latest incarnation of which is really, really nice! mark mitchell japan From bfether at mac.com Wed Feb 13 11:25:01 2002 From: bfether at mac.com (Ben C. Fetherston, Jr.) Date: Wed Feb 13 11:25:01 2002 Subject: OS X Printing Problem In-Reply-To: Message-ID: I can't speak for Lee, but I have no problem with printing from any other application I use in OS X, either Carbon or Cocoa, and my printer is a shared printer on an AppleTalk ethernet network. > Lee > > Sorry to ask such an obvious question, but I have never had a problem > printing under OSX (Rev or anything else) so I just have to do it: do > you have other Cocoa or Carbon apps printing successfully under OSX, not > in Classic? > How is your printer connected? > > thanks > David > > On Wednesday, February 13, 2002, at 05:35 , Lee Perham wrote: > >> >> Date: Mon, 11 Feb 2002 14:28:26 -0800 >> Subject: OS X Printing Problem >> From: "Ben C. Fetherston, Jr." >> To: >> Reply-To: use-revolution at lists.runrev.com >> >> I have an application that as a standalone will print the text in a >> field >> under OS 9.2 without any problem. Using the same stack in a standalone >> under OS X, the printing won't work. Has anyone had similar problems >> with >> printing in OS X? >> >> Under OS X the printing just hangs and can't be cancelled. This is true >> under the standalone application as well as in the OS X version of >> RunRev >> under browse or suspend UI. >> >> -- >> bfether at mac.com >> Salem, OR USA >> >> This is a known bug. I've reported it before. The same thing happens >> with revPrintField or when printing a long script in OSX. >> >> ~ Lee Perham >> >> _______________________________________________ >> use-revolution mailing list >> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution >> > > _______________________________________________ > use-revolution mailing list > use-revolution at lists.runrev.com > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution .signature-------- bfether at earthlink.net Ben C. Fetherston, Jr. Clark, Lindauer, Fetherston, Edmonds & Lippold, LLP Salem, Oregon USA This is legal advice only if you are a client. NOTICE: This communication may contain privileged or other confidential information. If you have received it in error, please advise the sender by reply email and immediately delete the message and any attachments without copying or disclosing the contents. Thank you. From terry at discovery.nl Wed Feb 13 11:38:01 2002 From: terry at discovery.nl (Terry Vogelaar) Date: Wed Feb 13 11:38:01 2002 Subject: Uploading a file the webform way Message-ID: I know it is possible to upload files using the FTP-protocol. I also know it is possible to send messages to a web server just like a HTML-form would send messages. But is it also possible to upload files that way? Like a HTML-form that has a ? (I realize not all listers will understand what I am talking about; sorry.) Terry From devin_asay at byu.edu Wed Feb 13 12:13:00 2002 From: devin_asay at byu.edu (Devin Asay) Date: Wed Feb 13 12:13:00 2002 Subject: displaying a web image In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: At 4:02 PM -0800 2/12/02, Jeanne A. E. DeVoto wrote: >At 3:53 PM -0800 2/12/2002, Devin Asay wrote: >>I know this has been addressed here before, but I've been unable to >>locate the message. >> >>How do I display an image from a web server in an image object? > >Set its filename property to the image's URL: > > set the filename of image "My Image" to "http://www.example.org/image.gif" > Thanks, Jeanne. I was trying to include the URL keyword before the file name. But here is a new problem. The first time I set the filename of the image to a URL on a web server it works fine. But if I try to set it to a different web URL it sticks with the first image, no matter what. It will let me set the filename to anything I want, but the image displayed does not change UNLESS I set the filename of the image to a local file. Then it displays that image file no problem. Here's where it gets weird: If I try to set the filename back to any image on any web server, it only displays the first web image set, every time. If I save, close and relaunch the stack it will then, finally, display the last web image set. This is consistent in Rev 1.1.1b1 for Mac OS X and OS 9.2. It appears to be a bug. Can anyone else confirm this and/or tell me what I'm doing wrong? Devin -- Devin Asay Humanities Research Center Brigham Young University From devin_asay at byu.edu Wed Feb 13 12:21:03 2002 From: devin_asay at byu.edu (Devin Asay) Date: Wed Feb 13 12:21:03 2002 Subject: OS X Printing Problem In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: At 8:22 AM -0800 2/13/02, Ben C. Fetherston, Jr. wrote: >I can't speak for Lee, but I have no problem with printing from any other >application I use in OS X, either Carbon or Cocoa, and my printer is a >shared printer on an AppleTalk ethernet network. > [snip] > >> >>> Date: Mon, 11 Feb 2002 14:28:26 -0800 >>> Subject: OS X Printing Problem >>> From: "Ben C. Fetherston, Jr." >>> To: >>> Reply-To: use-revolution at lists.runrev.com >>> >>> I have an application that as a standalone will print the text in a >>> field >>> under OS 9.2 without any problem. Using the same stack in a standalone >>> under OS X, the printing won't work. Has anyone had similar problems >>> with >>> printing in OS X? >>> >>> Under OS X the printing just hangs and can't be cancelled. This is true >>> under the standalone application as well as in the OS X version of >>> RunRev >>> under browse or suspend UI. >>> >>> -- >>> bfether at mac.com >>> Salem, OR USA >>> >>> This is a known bug. I've reported it before. The same thing happens >>> with revPrintField or when printing a long script in OSX. >>> > >> ~ Lee Perham I get precisely the same behavior when I try to print from a Transcript Dictionary window under OS X--the printing hangs and can't be cancelled. The only way to get out of it is to kill the Revolution process (force quit). Devin -- Devin Asay Humanities Research Center Brigham Young University From usher at iqcisp.com Wed Feb 13 12:32:00 2002 From: usher at iqcisp.com (Philip Usher) Date: Wed Feb 13 12:32:00 2002 Subject: Scrolling images and graphics In-Reply-To: <200202131627.LAA06382@www.runrev.com> Message-ID: on 2/13/02 10:27 AM, "Ken Norris (dialup)" wrote: > What is the process for making an image or graphic scroll in a window? have you tried the move command? move image "my jpeg" to x,y in 100 ticks Cheers, Philip From leep at mac.com Wed Feb 13 12:42:00 2002 From: leep at mac.com (Lee Perham) Date: Wed Feb 13 12:42:00 2002 Subject: OSX printing problems Message-ID: <94145306-20A8-11D6-AD47-0050E4C5F479@mac.com> Message: 7 Date: Wed, 13 Feb 2002 18:02:54 +1100 Subject: Re: OS X Printing Problem From: David Vaughan To: use-revolution at lists.runrev.com Reply-To: use-revolution at lists.runrev.com Lee Sorry to ask such an obvious question, but I have never had a problem printing under OSX (Rev or anything else) so I just have to do it: do you have other Cocoa or Carbon apps printing successfully under OSX, not in Classic? How is your printer connected? thanks David A straight USB connection with a new Cannon S800 printer using OSX 10.1.2. Everything else prints fine. Printing cards works fine. It's only when long fields are to be printed (more than one page) that Rev goes into an infinite loop. This doesn't happen in Classic, only OSX. I think there is a problem with revPrintField and OSX. I have seen this same problem posted by others, however I have not seen the bug acknowledged by the Revolution people. Lee From raney at metacard.com Wed Feb 13 12:44:01 2002 From: raney at metacard.com (Scott Raney) Date: Wed Feb 13 12:44:01 2002 Subject: graphic radio buttons In-Reply-To: <200202130008.TAA26520@www.runrev.com> Message-ID: On Tue, 12 Feb 2002 Rob Cozens wrote: > >HyperCard *is* faster at field get/set and reformatting. It's just the > >price you pay for breaking the 32K and color barriers. > > I can certainly understand that, Scott, and it brings up another question: > > With color built in, is there any porential performance advantage in > keeping a performance-sensitive stack b&w? This may sound off-the-wall; > but suppose David Vaughan's task handler needed a simple operator's > interface where color wasn't essential...would such a stack gain any > performance if left b&w? No: all backing pixmaps are kept at the screen depth, so it doesn't matter how many colors you use (except maybe in GIF or PNG files, which will compress a little better the fewer colors you use). This is unlike HyperCard which keeps backing pixmaps in 1-bit depth, reducing memory usage and in some cases improving performance, at the expense of requiring hacks like AddColor to do anything in color and being very limited in what you can do even with that. Regards, Scott > Rob Cozens > CCW, Serendipity Software Company > > "And I, which was two fooles, do so grow three; > Who are a little wise, the best fooles bee." > > from "The Triple Foole" by John Donne (1572-1631) ******************************************************** Scott Raney raney at metacard.com http://www.metacard.com MetaCard: You know, there's an easier way to do that... From raney at metacard.com Wed Feb 13 13:02:01 2002 From: raney at metacard.com (Scott Raney) Date: Wed Feb 13 13:02:01 2002 Subject: Repeats and mouse events In-Reply-To: <200202130008.TAA26520@www.runrev.com> Message-ID: On Tue, 12 Feb 2002 Ian Summerfield wrote: > On my machine, PowerMac G3 450Mhz, running Revolution 1.1.1b1 under OS X, it > doesn't work, I changed your "wait until the mouse is up" statement to a > loop: > > Repeat until the optionkey is down > put the mouse > End repeat Just my 2 cents on this issue: IF YOU'RE USING THE MOUSE FUNCTION FOR NEW DEVELOPMENT, YOU'RE DOING THE WRONG THING!!! Apologies for the shouting and for sounding like a broken record on this issue, but I can't emphasize enough that this is piss poor technique and will bring you nothing but grief in the long run. If it were up to me "the mouse" function would be removed from the language entirely in the next release. Even Apple now *specifically* recommends against this type of function on OS X and we're in violation of their developer recommendations for even supporting it on that platform. It's always been frowned on on the other platforms. Instead of this hack, do what real developers do and use the mouseDown/mouseUp/mouseMove/mouseRelease messages instead. Regards, Scott PS to Jeanne: if the RR doc for the mouse function doesn't provide this information, please fix it. ******************************************************** Scott Raney raney at metacard.com http://www.metacard.com MetaCard: You know, there's an easier way to do that... From fabach at cc.usu.edu Wed Feb 13 13:18:01 2002 From: fabach at cc.usu.edu (Franklin Bacheller) Date: Wed Feb 13 13:18:01 2002 Subject: OS X Printing Problem In-Reply-To: Message-ID: I also have a problem printing Revolution scripts from MAC OS X. Program hangs up on "page 2," will not "cancel," and requires a "force quit." I have tried this with two different networked printers. Revolution hangs up even though I have system 10 print drivers for one of the printers (HP 4500N). Frank Bacheller -- Franklin I. Bacheller, Ph.D. Director and Associate Professor Intensive English Language Institute Utah State University 0715 Old Main Hill Logan, UT 84322-0715 USA From fabach at cc.usu.edu Wed Feb 13 13:21:01 2002 From: fabach at cc.usu.edu (Franklin Bacheller) Date: Wed Feb 13 13:21:01 2002 Subject: OSX printing problems In-Reply-To: <94145306-20A8-11D6-AD47-0050E4C5F479@mac.com> Message-ID: I should have added to my previous message that I can otherwise print from any OS X program (MS Office, Freehand, etc.) and any OS 9 program. Frank Bacheller -- Franklin I. Bacheller, Ph.D. Director and Associate Professor Intensive English Language Institute Utah State University 0715 Old Main Hill Logan, UT 84322-0715 USA From bornstein at designeq.com Wed Feb 13 14:05:01 2002 From: bornstein at designeq.com (Howard Bornstein) Date: Wed Feb 13 14:05:01 2002 Subject: Scrolling images and graphics Message-ID: <200202131904.OAA14255@www.runrev.com> >>What is the process for making an image or graphic scroll in a window? > >Group the image, then set the group's hScroll and/or vScroll properties as >desired. (If you want visible scrollbars, set the group's hScrollbar and/or >vScrollbar properties to true.) Hi Jeanne, I've grouped an image with a text field and turned on the group vertical scroll bar to allow a field with graphics in it to scroll. However, it appears that the top or botton edge of the field gets copied onto the field when I scroll up or down. In other words, when I scroll the field up, a horizontal line appears at the bottom of the field which moves up the field as I scroll. In addition, this line continues to be generated repeatedly as I scroll up, each succesive line spaced 8 pixels from the previous one. This similarly occurs from the top of the field as I scroll down. It seems to be a display bug in scrolling a mixed group. I can send you a stack if you haven't seen this before. Regards, Howard Bornstein ____________________ D E S I G N E Q www.designeq.com From tim11 at bellatlantic.net Wed Feb 13 14:10:01 2002 From: tim11 at bellatlantic.net (Tim) Date: Wed Feb 13 14:10:01 2002 Subject: CustomProperties Question Message-ID: Hi, I have a customProperty Set called "categories". It has "cat-one" and "cat=two" as its keys, and each key has some value. How do I change the name of each key and not the value through a script? TIA, -- Tim From pixelbird at interisland.net Wed Feb 13 14:59:01 2002 From: pixelbird at interisland.net (Ken Norris (dialup)) Date: Wed Feb 13 14:59:01 2002 Subject: Active field borders and scrollbars In-Reply-To: Message-ID: on 2/13/02 3:02 AM, yves COPPE at yvescoppe at skynet.be wrote: >> Hi again, >> >> When I click in a field to type in it, it lites up a red border around it >> along with starting the I-beam cursor. How do I prevent the 'active border' >> from showing? > > > don't check or uncheck "show focus border" in the properties palette ---------- Thanks. I tried that, but it still showed up. Best regards, Ken N. From pixelbird at interisland.net Wed Feb 13 15:02:01 2002 From: pixelbird at interisland.net (Ken Norris (dialup)) Date: Wed Feb 13 15:02:01 2002 Subject: Active field borders and scrollbars In-Reply-To: Message-ID: on 2/13/02 5:08 AM, Klaus Major at kmajor at metascape.org wrote: > Maybe this is a silly question: > > Do you already have text in that field ? ---------- No. I'm just used to seeing one in a scrolling field (HC) which helps align the field from an appearance aspect. Not a serious problem. ---------- > The scrollbars of a field do only appear when the text "overflows"... ---------- Ahhh!! That would explain it. Thank you. Best regards, Ken N. From JAMES.G.YATES at saic.com Wed Feb 13 15:52:01 2002 From: JAMES.G.YATES at saic.com (Yates, Glen) Date: Wed Feb 13 15:52:01 2002 Subject: Active field borders and scrollbars Message-ID: <33F0B58BF432D211B72200805FEFAAD905A59F@hun-its-exs01.saic.com> Try setting this property programatically like this: set showfocusborder of field to false do this in the preopencard perhaps, worked for me. Note: This will only have an effect when using the Motif or Macintosh look and feel, as in Windows focus borders are not drawn around text fields. Glen Yates -----Original Message----- From: Ken Norris (dialup) [mailto:pixelbird at interisland.net] Sent: Wednesday, February 13, 2002 2:08 PM To: use-revolution at lists.runrev.com Subject: Re: Active field borders and scrollbars on 2/13/02 3:02 AM, yves COPPE at yvescoppe at skynet.be wrote: >> Hi again, >> >> When I click in a field to type in it, it lites up a red border around it >> along with starting the I-beam cursor. How do I prevent the 'active border' >> from showing? > > > don't check or uncheck "show focus border" in the properties palette ---------- Thanks. I tried that, but it still showed up. Best regards, Ken N. _______________________________________________ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution at lists.runrev.com http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution From pixelbird at interisland.net Wed Feb 13 16:02:01 2002 From: pixelbird at interisland.net (Ken Norris (dialup)) Date: Wed Feb 13 16:02:01 2002 Subject: Repeats and mouse events In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Hi Charles, Jusy so you know, I'm making apps for the disabled, including children. The following is a script I experimented with in Hypercard which uses the addColor XCMD to color hilite buttons, rather than the B&W button Autohilite property. It's simple, and can be used in an offscreen handler that will make all the buttons which call it behave the same way, e.g., just like autohilite. I'd think it would belong in a group script in RR. It's the recoloring technique that you want to look at. on mouseUp autoColorHilite end mouseUp on autoColorHilite addColor,colorButton,bg,id of the target,"39321,26214,13107",2 repeat while the mouse is down if the mouseLoc is within the rect of the target then addColor colorButton,bg,id of the target,"39321,26214,13107",2 else addColor colorButton,bg,id of the target,"52428,39321,26214",2 end repeat -- you can do all your mouseUp operations here OR use a mouseUp handler end autoColorHilite Mark Schonewille came up with this from my original inquiry. I used it to also accomplish mouseUp actions common to all the buttons (the note in the comment space), since they use 'the target' as well. I can see no advantage to writing a separate mouseUp message to activate yet another offscreen common handler in HC, but in RR I think you would use a group handler, right? ...and for Scott R.... If you don't think this is valid scripting technique, please offer a RR handler that accomplishes the same task. I'd be the first one to admit I have HC habits that may not be necessary with RR. Not all of us in that position are instantly cognitive of the differences, but need to get/keep our apps running. Hope all this helps. Best regards, Ken N. From pixelbird at interisland.net Wed Feb 13 16:06:01 2002 From: pixelbird at interisland.net (Ken Norris (dialup)) Date: Wed Feb 13 16:06:01 2002 Subject: Scrolling images and graphics In-Reply-To: Message-ID: on 2/13/02 9:28 AM, Philip Usher at usher at iqcisp.com wrote: > on 2/13/02 10:27 AM, "Ken Norris (dialup)" > wrote: > >> What is the process for making an image or graphic scroll in a window? > > have you tried the move command? > move image "my jpeg" to x,y in 100 ticks ---------- This sounds OK. Is there a way to grab it to move wherever, tied to the cursor for example? Best regards, Ken N. From pixelbird at interisland.net Wed Feb 13 16:11:02 2002 From: pixelbird at interisland.net (Ken Norris (dialup)) Date: Wed Feb 13 16:11:02 2002 Subject: Stack window offset, won't return In-Reply-To: <7EC37790-2082-11D6-A792-003065D52E8E@metascape.org> Message-ID: on 2/13/02 5:06 AM, Klaus Major at kmajor at metascape.org wrote: (snip) > on preOpenStack > set the decorations of me to empty > set the backdrop to black > hide menubar > if the screenrect is 0,0,1024,768 then > set the windowboundingrect to 0,0,1024,768 > set the loc of me to 512,384 > set the rect of me to 0,0,1024,768 > else > set the loc of me to the screenloc > end if > ..... > end preOpenStack > > > There is this issue with the windowboundingrect, which is different than > desired > in most cases ;-) ---------- What do you mean? Can you explain thie above comment a bit more? ---------- > I had the problem to display my stack (1024 * 768) fullscreen if the > screenresolution > was the same size. There was always a part cutt-off of that stack as > well on the top as on the bottom. > > With this script i had no more problems. ---------- I'll try it and let you know. In themeantime, thanks so much. Best regards, Ken N. From usher at iqcisp.com Wed Feb 13 16:39:01 2002 From: usher at iqcisp.com (Philip Usher) Date: Wed Feb 13 16:39:01 2002 Subject: Scrolling images and graphics In-Reply-To: <200202132112.QAA18645@www.runrev.com> Message-ID: on 2/13/02 3:12 PM, "Ken Norris (dialup)" wrote: > > on 2/13/02 9:28 AM, Philip Usher at usher at iqcisp.com wrote: > >> on 2/13/02 10:27 AM, "Ken Norris (dialup)" >> wrote: >> >>> What is the process for making an image or graphic scroll in a window? >> >> have you tried the move command? >> move image "my jpeg" to x,y in 100 ticks > ---------- > This sounds OK. Is there a way to grab it to move wherever, tied to the > cursor for example? if you mean by a mouseDown action: on mouseDown grab me end mouseDown -- Philip From zelston at aol.com Wed Feb 13 16:40:01 2002 From: zelston at aol.com (Zac Elston) Date: Wed Feb 13 16:40:01 2002 Subject: Objects in a group In-Reply-To: <200202090329.WAA21437@www.runrev.com> Message-ID: On 2/8/02 10:29 PM, "use-revolution-request at lists.runrev.com" wrote: > on mouseUp > if word 1 of the name of the target is not "graphic" then pass mouseUp > if the redCircle of me is not empty > then set the backgroundColor of graphic ID (the redCircle of me) to gray > set the backgroundColor of the target to red > set the redCircle of me to the short ID of the target > end mouseUp I've received a few comments on this problem and I thank everyone for their input. This is great community support. Using a Custom Property really opened my eyes to what was possible in Revolution. Previously I had been thinking very linearly, and I need to overcome that. My application is a test that either reads answers from a file to show what was selected or reads input from the user to write the file. read value Y from array[X] and change target Y in group X read target Y in group X and put the value of Y into array[X]. This saves me the trouble of scripting every group and then I can add lots of goodies based on what X and Y are I can only think of accomplishing this by knowing where the object is in the group, hence the question..."how do I determine objects in a group?" Rev support offered repeat with i = 1 to the num of graphics in me ... end repeat But this only works if placed in the group script. To make this work in the stack script I tried being very linear with put word 5 of LongTargetName into MyGroupName repeat with i = 1 to the num of graphics in group value(MyGroupName) ... end repeat The problem comes from the fact that I have graphics in a group and each group can have the same graphic names but with unique Ids. So changing graphic "1" actually only changes the first graphic "1" (ID 123) not the graphic "1" (ID 321) in the group of the target. Is it possible to use target IDs and group IDs? I can't find any way to say Put the objectIDs of group X into Alist --(there doesn't seem to be a way to list objects unlike "put the groupIDs of me into X") Repeat for each line ThisLine in Alist If the id of the graphic ThisLine is not the id of the target then .... -zac From usher at iqcisp.com Wed Feb 13 16:47:01 2002 From: usher at iqcisp.com (Philip Usher) Date: Wed Feb 13 16:47:01 2002 Subject: Scrolling images and graphics In-Reply-To: <200202132112.QAA18645@www.runrev.com> Message-ID: on 2/13/02 3:12 PM, "Ken Norris (dialup)" wrote: > > on 2/13/02 9:28 AM, Philip Usher at usher at iqcisp.com wrote: > >> on 2/13/02 10:27 AM, "Ken Norris (dialup)" >> wrote: >> >>> What is the process for making an image or graphic scroll in a window? >> >> have you tried the move command? >> move image "my jpeg" to x,y in 100 ticks > ---------- > This sounds OK. Is there a way to grab it to move wherever, tied to the > cursor for example? if you mean by a mouseDown action: on mouseDown grab me end mouseDown OR if you mean drag and throw: http://www.quicktimers.com/projects/throw/index.html -- Philip From gcanyon at inspiredlogic.com Wed Feb 13 16:53:00 2002 From: gcanyon at inspiredlogic.com (Geoff Canyon) Date: Wed Feb 13 16:53:00 2002 Subject: Repeats and mouse events In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: At 11:23 AM -0500 2/12/02, Charles Silverman wrote: >-- >On mousedown > get flushevents("mousedown") >End mousedown > >On mouseup > Put the seconds into tStartHere > Repeat > put the seconds - tStartHere into tTimeNow > if tTimeNow > 15 then exit repeat > if the mouse is down then > put "You got It" into fld 1 > beep > wait until the mouse is up > exit repeat > end if > end Repeat >Put "" into fld 1 >End mouseup >-- Charles, I'm not following this script well enough to understand the goal. Can you explain it? I'm getting out of the script that you want to extend the period for a double-click to fifteen seconds -- a mouseUp and a subsequent mouseDown within that time generates a beep and a field message. The message remains until a subsequent mouseUp. Is that right? regards, Geoff From scott at tactilemedia.com Wed Feb 13 17:06:01 2002 From: scott at tactilemedia.com (Scott Rossi) Date: Wed Feb 13 17:06:01 2002 Subject: Repeats and mouse events In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <70D66504-20CD-11D6-B728-0003934902A2@tactilemedia.com> On Wednesday, February 13, 2002, at 01:11 PM, Ken Norris (dialup) wrote: > The following is a script I experimented with in Hypercard which uses > the > addColor XCMD to color hilite buttons, rather than the B&W button > Autohilite > property. It's simple, and can be used in an offscreen handler that will > make all the buttons which call it behave the same way, e.g., just like > autohilite. I'd think it would belong in a group script in RR. It's the > recoloring technique that you want to look at. > > on mouseUp > autoColorHilite > end mouseUp > > on autoColorHilite > addColor,colorButton,bg,id of the target,"39321,26214,13107",2 > repeat while the mouse is down > if the mouseLoc is within the rect of the target then > addColor colorButton,bg,id of the target,"39321,26214,13107",2 > else addColor colorButton,bg,id of the target,"52428,39321,26214",2 > end repeat > -- you can do all your mouseUp operations here OR use a mouseUp > handler > end autoColorHilite If you're looking to simply manage highlighting of buttons with a central script, the following is one way. In your button script: on mouseDown manageDownState end mouseDown on mouseDoubleDown # include this handler to trap fast clicks mouseDown end mouseDoubleDown on mouseUp manageUpState end mouseUp on mouseDoubleUp # include this handler to trap fast clicks mouseDown end mouseDoubleUp on mouseRelease mouseUp end mouseRelease In your stack script: on manageDownState if within(the target,the mouseLoc) then \ set the backColor of the target to 0,255,0 # Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020213033056.00a55c70@pop.email.missouri.edu> I'll try to resist the urge to SHOUT, but, as far as I can tell, the transcript dictionary has "piss poor" documentation of the mouse function. Is there any documentation available of how the mouse function actually works that would predict or explain the behavior of the mouse in the loop script mentioned by Ian Summerfield ? Anyone converting projects from HyperCard or SuperCard might encounter this issue and wonder what is going on. Or is this unexpected and unpredictable behavior simply punishment for "piss poor technique"? Will similar behavior occur with other functions, like keysdown(), optionKey(), etc.? Perhaps just removing the mouse function would be better than misleading or mystifying users about how it might work. I'm sure there's better documentation somewhere that I just haven't found. Thanks for the clarification. Scott Saults >Date: Wed, 13 Feb 2002 10:58:55 -0700 (MST) >From: Scott Raney >(snip) >Just my 2 cents on this issue: >IF YOU'RE USING THE MOUSE FUNCTION FOR NEW DEVELOPMENT, YOU'RE DOING >THE WRONG THING!!! >Apologies for the shouting and for sounding like a broken record on >this issue, but I can't emphasize enough that this is piss poor >technique and will bring you nothing but grief in the long run. If it >were up to me "the mouse" function would be removed from >(etc) From jeanne at runrev.com Wed Feb 13 18:46:01 2002 From: jeanne at runrev.com (Jeanne A. E. DeVoto) Date: Wed Feb 13 18:46:01 2002 Subject: displaying a web image In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: At 9:10 AM -0800 2/13/2002, Devin Asay wrote: >> set the filename of image "My Image" to "http://www.example.org/image.gif" > >Thanks, Jeanne. I was trying to include the URL keyword before the >file name. But here is a new problem. The first time I set the >filename of the image to a URL on a web server it works fine. But if >I try to set it to a different web URL it sticks with the first >image, no matter what. > >This is consistent in Rev 1.1.1b1 for Mac OS X and OS 9.2. It >appears to be a bug. Can anyone else confirm this and/or tell me >what I'm doing wrong? I confirm this - it does look like a bug. Will report it. Thanks! -- Jeanne A. E. DeVoto ~ jeanne at runrev.com http://www.runrev.com/ Runtime Revolution Limited - Power to the Developer! From jeanne at runrev.com Wed Feb 13 19:39:01 2002 From: jeanne at runrev.com (Jeanne A. E. DeVoto) Date: Wed Feb 13 19:39:01 2002 Subject: Objects in a group In-Reply-To: References: <200202090329.WAA21437@www.runrev.com> Message-ID: At 1:36 PM -0800 2/13/2002, Zac Elston wrote: >My application is a test that either reads answers from a file to show what >was selected or reads input from the user to write the file. > > read value Y from array[X] and change target Y in group X > read target Y in group X and put the value of Y into array[X]. > >I can only think of accomplishing this by knowing where the object is in the >group, hence the question..."how do I determine objects in a group?" How about using a construct like this: set the backgroundColor of graphic Y of group X to "blue" I am not sure from your message whether you know that you can specify objects by their owners like this, but you can. So the statement above will single out graphic Y in group X, even if other groups also contain a graphic named or numbered "Y". -- Jeanne A. E. DeVoto ~ jeanne at runrev.com http://www.runrev.com/ Runtime Revolution Limited - Power to the Developer! From gcanyon at inspiredlogic.com Wed Feb 13 19:59:01 2002 From: gcanyon at inspiredlogic.com (Geoff Canyon) Date: Wed Feb 13 19:59:01 2002 Subject: displaying a web image In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: At 3:27 PM -0800 2/13/02, Jeanne A. E. DeVoto wrote: >At 9:10 AM -0800 2/13/2002, Devin Asay wrote: >>> set the filename of image "My Image" to "http://www.example.org/image.gif" >> >>Thanks, Jeanne. I was trying to include the URL keyword before the >>file name. But here is a new problem. The first time I set the >>filename of the image to a URL on a web server it works fine. But if >>I try to set it to a different web URL it sticks with the first >>image, no matter what. >> >>This is consistent in Rev 1.1.1b1 for Mac OS X and OS 9.2. It >>appears to be a bug. Can anyone else confirm this and/or tell me >>what I'm doing wrong? > >I confirm this - it does look like a bug. Will report it. Thanks! But this does appear to work as it should: put url "http://www.example.org/image.gif" into image "My Image" Although it doesn't seem to handle animated gifs as it should -- the mergine of the base image of the gif with subsequent frames doesn't display properly. regards, geoff From jeanne at runrev.com Wed Feb 13 20:57:01 2002 From: jeanne at runrev.com (Jeanne A. E. DeVoto) Date: Wed Feb 13 20:57:01 2002 Subject: Scrolling images and graphics In-Reply-To: <200202131904.OAA14255@www.runrev.com> Message-ID: At 11:01 AM -0800 2/13/2002, Howard Bornstein wrote: >I've grouped an image with a text field and turned on the group vertical >scroll bar to allow a field with graphics in it to scroll. However, it >appears that the top or botton edge of the field gets copied onto the >field when I scroll up or down. I'm not seeing this here - can you send me the stack? Thanks. -- Jeanne A. E. DeVoto ~ jeanne at runrev.com http://www.runrev.com/ Runtime Revolution Limited - Power to the Developer! From pixelbird at interisland.net Thu Feb 14 02:28:00 2002 From: pixelbird at interisland.net (Ken Norris (dialup)) Date: Thu Feb 14 02:28:00 2002 Subject: Repeats and mouse events In-Reply-To: <70D66504-20CD-11D6-B728-0003934902A2@tactilemedia.com> Message-ID: on 2/13/02 2:02 PM, Scott Rossi at scott at tactilemedia.com wrote: > If you're looking to simply manage highlighting of buttons with a > central script, the following is one way. ---------- Well, it wasn't for me, but your scripts may prove helpful for some other similar actions of mine. Thank you, Ken N. From yvescoppe at skynet.be Thu Feb 14 02:38:00 2002 From: yvescoppe at skynet.be (yves COPPE) Date: Thu Feb 14 02:38:00 2002 Subject: custom property Message-ID: hello, I have a stack with cardsI On each card, there are groups. Each grp has radio btns. Depending on the choices of the user, i want to open a specific text file. The path to the file should be stored in a custom property. So : I build each time a variable that points to one the the text file from the chioce of the radio btns by the user. one custom property set : cPathFiles 10 property set keys in Ppathfiles: cfileA, cfileB, cFileC, and so on The first time the user chose his file, a answer file DLOG store the pathWay of the text file in a variable (pathtoFile). I'd like to store this variable, so that the second time the user makes his choice, I' don't have to ask again where is that file ! 1) How can I store a pathfile in each of the keys of cPathFiles (cfileA, cfileB, cFileC, and so on) ? 2) How can I select one of the key in the cPathFiles ? Thanks. -- Greetings. Yves COPPE Email : yvescoppe at skynet.be From kmajor at metascape.org Thu Feb 14 04:14:01 2002 From: kmajor at metascape.org (Klaus Major) Date: Thu Feb 14 04:14:01 2002 Subject: Stack window offset, won't return In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Hi Ken, >> on preOpenStack >> set the decorations of me to empty >> set the backdrop to black >> hide menubar >> if the screenrect is 0,0,1024,768 then >> set the windowboundingrect to 0,0,1024,768 >> set the loc of me to 512,384 >> set the rect of me to 0,0,1024,768 >> else >> set the loc of me to the screenloc >> end if >> ..... >> end preOpenStack >> >> >> There is this issue with the windowboundingrect, which is different >> than >> desired >> in most cases ;-) > ---------- > What do you mean? Can you explain thie above comment a bit more? starting with version 2.3 there was this new property windowboundingrect (see the index for more info...). (I am referring to MetaCard all the time.) Since then i had trouble to display a stack fullscreen on mac and win. Example: My stack is 1024*768. Now until version 2.3 i just opende my stack at the screenloc. I just filled the entire screen. But after that the stack was partly cut off. But not only on the top or bottom, but on ALL sides... Big fun... So i tested until i came up with this solution. At last it works for me. Regards Klaus Major kmajor at metascape.org From jeanne at runrev.com Thu Feb 14 04:50:01 2002 From: jeanne at runrev.com (Jeanne A. E. DeVoto) Date: Thu Feb 14 04:50:01 2002 Subject: displaying a web image In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: At 4:57 PM -0800 2/13/2002, Geoff Canyon wrote: >>At 9:10 AM -0800 2/13/2002, Devin Asay wrote: >>>file name. But here is a new problem. The first time I set the >>>filename of the image to a URL on a web server it works fine. But if >>>I try to set it to a different web URL it sticks with the first >>>image, no matter what. >>> >But this does appear to work as it should: > >put url "http://www.example.org/image.gif" into image "My Image" Doesn't do exactly the same thing, though - it downloads the image data so you have an image that's contained in the stack, rather than one that's referenced off the web server. (If someone changes the image on the server, the image in your stack won't change with it.) -- Jeanne A. E. DeVoto ~ jeanne at runrev.com http://www.runrev.com/ Runtime Revolution Limited - Power to the Developer! From rjb at rz.uni-potsdam.de Thu Feb 14 08:51:01 2002 From: rjb at rz.uni-potsdam.de (Robert Brenstein) Date: Thu Feb 14 08:51:01 2002 Subject: CGI Creation In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: >Can anyone point me in the direction of any documentation about how to use >Revolution for CGI creation? > If you are talking Macintosh, check out http://www.robelko.com/metacard/starter-cgi.html Robert From iansummerfield at btconnect.com Thu Feb 14 12:18:28 2002 From: iansummerfield at btconnect.com (Ian Summerfield) Date: Thu Feb 14 12:18:28 2002 Subject: Answer file of type "APPL" under OS X Message-ID: I'm trying to write a keep it up type utility and want to be able to choose which application(s) to monitor. If I use answer file "" of type "APPL" everything is fine under OS 9, but under OS X the native applications can't be selected, e.g. Try choose the "clock" that's standard in "applications". I've found I can use the somewhat buggy and most un-mac-like built in file selector by setting the systemfileselector to false but it's still weird the way you get to the clock program. on mouseUp --set the systemfileselector to false --uncomment the above line to try rev's hideous interface answer file "" of type "APPL" end mouseUp So how can I throw up a dialog that truly lists all applications? From gcanyon at inspiredlogic.com Thu Feb 14 12:39:01 2002 From: gcanyon at inspiredlogic.com (Geoff Canyon) Date: Thu Feb 14 12:39:01 2002 Subject: displaying a web image In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: At 7:34 PM -0800 2/13/02, Jeanne A. E. DeVoto wrote: >>But this does appear to work as it should: >> >>put url "http://www.example.org/image.gif" into image "My Image" > >Doesn't do exactly the same thing, though - it downloads the image data so >you have an image that's contained in the stack, rather than one that's >referenced off the web server. (If someone changes the image on the server, >the image in your stack won't change with it.) Agreed -- I was just pointing out that it would work around the problem, not saying that it was equivalent. gc From mark_mitchell at kmug.org Thu Feb 14 12:43:01 2002 From: mark_mitchell at kmug.org (Mark Mitchell) Date: Thu Feb 14 12:43:01 2002 Subject: Objects in a group In-Reply-To: <200202141715.MAA32112@www.runrev.com> References: <200202141715.MAA32112@www.runrev.com> Message-ID: Zac writes: So changing graphic "1" actually only changes the first graphic "1" (ID 123) not the graphic "1" (ID 321) in the group of the target. I don't think this is accurate. If you make two groups of,say, 3 graphics each, then type into the message box "hide graphic 1" it will hide graphic 1 of the card. But type "hide graphic 1 of group 2" and it will hide graphic 4 on the card. Perhaps you are not specifying your target group correctly. Or perhaps you are using "in" group, instead of "of" group. "in" will not work. mark mitchell japan From Roger.E.Eller at sealedair.com Thu Feb 14 13:14:01 2002 From: Roger.E.Eller at sealedair.com (Roger.E.Eller at sealedair.com) Date: Thu Feb 14 13:14:01 2002 Subject: Shell Commands Message-ID: I was trying to figure out how to pass commands to the OS on the OS level. Shell looks promising, but I cannot get it to work. What is wrong with this script? on mouseUp set the shellCommand to "C:/WINNT/SYSTEM32/command.com" shell("dir C:\") answer the result end mouseUp ~Roger Eller From devin_asay at byu.edu Thu Feb 14 14:24:01 2002 From: devin_asay at byu.edu (Devin Asay) Date: Thu Feb 14 14:24:01 2002 Subject: displaying a web image In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: At 4:57 PM -0800 2/13/02, Geoff Canyon wrote: >At 3:27 PM -0800 2/13/02, Jeanne A. E. DeVoto wrote: >>At 9:10 AM -0800 2/13/2002, Devin Asay wrote: >>>> set the filename of image "My Image" to >>>>"http://www.example.org/image.gif" >>> >>>Thanks, Jeanne. I was trying to include the URL keyword before the >>>file name. But here is a new problem. The first time I set the >>>filename of the image to a URL on a web server it works fine. But if >>>I try to set it to a different web URL it sticks with the first >>>image, no matter what. >>> >>>This is consistent in Rev 1.1.1b1 for Mac OS X and OS 9.2. It >>>appears to be a bug. Can anyone else confirm this and/or tell me >>>what I'm doing wrong? >> >>I confirm this - it does look like a bug. Will report it. Thanks! > >But this does appear to work as it should: > >put url "http://www.example.org/image.gif" into image "My Image" > >Although it doesn't seem to handle animated gifs as it should -- the >mergine of the base image of the gif with subsequent frames doesn't >display properly. I confirmed that the "put URL" form works as expected; it also gives a clue as to what's wrong with the "set the filename" form. It appears to be related to images stored in the image library (icon library?)* of the stack. Apparently, whatever image is in the first position of the stack's image library is the one that gets inserted into the image when using the 'set the filename .. to "http://..." ' form. If that library is empty (as it is the first time the command is sent) the referenced graphic is inserted into that first slot and appears in the image object. If that library is not empty, for instance if there has been a previous "put URL" form used, the "set the filename" command looks in that first slot and uses whatever is there. Closing the stack flushes the referenced object out of the library so the new image will be displayed when it is re-opened. *(The images you see when you assign an icon to a button and choose the "This Stack" image library.) Kevin indicated that there are fixes to the image library in the works for beta 2, so it is hoped that this will be fixed at that time. Devin -- Devin Asay Humanities Research Center Brigham Young University From jeanne at runrev.com Thu Feb 14 16:03:01 2002 From: jeanne at runrev.com (Jeanne A. E. DeVoto) Date: Thu Feb 14 16:03:01 2002 Subject: Shell Commands In-Reply-To: Message-ID: At 10:10 AM -0800 2/14/2002, Roger.E.Eller at sealedair.com wrote: >I was trying to figure out how to pass commands to the OS on the OS level. >Shell looks promising, but I cannot get it to work. What is wrong with this >script? > >on mouseUp > set the shellCommand to "C:/WINNT/SYSTEM32/command.com" > shell("dir C:\") > answer the result >end mouseUp The problem is that shell is a function whose return value is the returned data - not a command. So you need answer shell("dir C:/") -- Jeanne A. E. DeVoto ~ jeanne at runrev.com http://www.runrev.com/ Runtime Revolution Limited - Power to the Developer! From marcus at synchromedia.co.uk Thu Feb 14 16:30:01 2002 From: marcus at synchromedia.co.uk (Marcus Bointon) Date: Thu Feb 14 16:30:01 2002 Subject: Teething troubles Message-ID: I'm new to Revolution, but have plenty of experience in Director and RB, and I'm having a few problems with Revolution, so here's a whole bunch of questions. I'm developing an app that has no visual interface at all - it reads the contents of a file and decides whether to launch some other apps on the basis of what it finds. So far I have built this in about 30 lines of code as a stack script all triggered from an openstack message. I have set the (unused) window to be invisible. Revolution crashed with a type 2 when I also turned off the "buffer display" window property - I figured there was no point in having a buffer for a window with no contents that would never be seen. While trying a test with this stack, I accidentally selected "suspend revolution UI". Everything effectively became unusable, and the restore interface button did nothing. If I put the mouse near the menu bar, it acted like I was pressing the button up & down about once per second. Very odd. I had to force-quit to get out of it. Is there any equivalent of classes like in RB and Director? I'm used to just being able to say new(script "whatever") to instantiate new objects on the fly, especially non-visual abstract things. These don't have a place in the stack/card/button/object metaphor that I have found. While trying to debug things, particularly using the message window to send messages I find that often the errors generated don't reflect the problem, for example I find that "handler not defined" usually means there is an error in the handler in question that prevents it from compiling, rather than it not existing, but I can't find any way of it getting me any more detail than that. When I do manage to get a proper error dialogue appearing, more often than not it's an error in the Revolution IDE, rather than anything I've written which was initially very confusing as I couldn't figure out where all this code was coming from! I feel like I'm missing something like the "recompile now" button in Lingo. I sometimes find the debugger is out of sync with my code, even if I close it, force an apply, and reopen the debugger, it may still show an old version. This seems intermittent. Arrays (which are like lingo property lists to me) seem to act oddly in places. For example, it's easy to display some info using "put the keys of someArray", but if I say "put someArray" I get a vast amount of garbage characters in the message window rather than anything meaningful (in fact this crashed Revolution on one occasion). The split command seems to expect data in value/name pairs rather than name/value, e.g. If I want to set some values thus: name=widget size=20 colour=yellow I can't split this using return and "=" as it will come out the wrong way around, as in widget=name etc. Something more powerful like the Perl split command would be great. What's the standard or usual way of handling XML in revolution? DefaultFolder seems not terribly clever. By default it points to the revolution app. It would be more useful if it pointed to the current stack. Director has separate names for these places (applicationPath and moviePath). It would also be very convenient if it appeared with a trailing separator - but make it consistent across platforms, unlike Director! I can't find a way of getting the current stack's path. As a feature request, could we have native support for gestalt selectors on both Windows and MacOS? On Windows, gestalt is provided through QuickTime and is a very handy way of assessing the installed state of components and versions. Anyway, I'm sure that's enough to be getting on with! Thanks, Marcus -- Marcus Bointon Synchromedia Limited: Putting you in the picture marcus at synchromedia.co.uk | http://www.synchromedia.co.uk From DJohnson at Wilmer.COM Thu Feb 14 17:10:01 2002 From: DJohnson at Wilmer.COM (Johnson, David) Date: Thu Feb 14 17:10:01 2002 Subject: making directory in ftp Message-ID: Is it possible to use ftp and a URL reference to create a new directory on an ftp server? -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jmirandav at mac.com Thu Feb 14 17:10:13 2002 From: jmirandav at mac.com (Javier Miranda V.) Date: Thu Feb 14 17:10:13 2002 Subject: Dial phone Message-ID: <88652CAC-2181-11D6-A4DF-0050E410F67A@mac.com> Hi friends: How can I make Revolution dial?, I mean make a phone call!!! Saludos, Javier Miranda V. MacConsult From zelston at aol.com Thu Feb 14 17:16:01 2002 From: zelston at aol.com (Zac Elston) Date: Thu Feb 14 17:16:01 2002 Subject: stacks and cards In-Reply-To: <200202141715.MAA32122@www.runrev.com> Message-ID: I have a stack script that says put the value of X into Field Y and Field Y is on card 1. how can I tell additional cards to write to the field Y on Card 1? From k_major at osnabrueck.netsurf.de Thu Feb 14 17:26:00 2002 From: k_major at osnabrueck.netsurf.de (Klaus Major) Date: Thu Feb 14 17:26:00 2002 Subject: stacks and cards In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Hi Zac, > I have a stack script that says > > put the value of X into Field Y > > and Field Y is on card 1. > > how can I tell additional cards to write to the field Y on Card 1? that's an easy one ;-) You can write whereever you want: put xxx into field 1 of card 1 Good night Klaus Major k_major at osnabrueck.netsurf.de From JAMES.G.YATES at saic.com Thu Feb 14 17:37:01 2002 From: JAMES.G.YATES at saic.com (Yates, Glen) Date: Thu Feb 14 17:37:01 2002 Subject: Teething troubles Message-ID: <33F0B58BF432D211B72200805FEFAAD905A5A1@hun-its-exs01.saic.com> Try this for getting the current stacks path: get the effective fileName of this stack set the itemDelimiter to "/" put empty into the last item of it now you could do something useful like: set the directory to it also don't forget to: set the itemDelimiter to comma As for your other questions, maybe some others will answer them. -Glen -----Original Message----- From: Marcus Bointon [mailto:marcus at synchromedia.co.uk] Sent: Thursday, February 14, 2002 3:28 PM To: Revolution Subject: Teething troubles DefaultFolder seems not terribly clever. By default it points to the revolution app. It would be more useful if it pointed to the current stack. Director has separate names for these places (applicationPath and moviePath). It would also be very convenient if it appeared with a trailing separator - but make it consistent across platforms, unlike Director! I can't find a way of getting the current stack's path. From gcanyon at inspiredlogic.com Thu Feb 14 17:42:01 2002 From: gcanyon at inspiredlogic.com (Geoff Canyon) Date: Thu Feb 14 17:42:01 2002 Subject: Teething troubles In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: At 9:27 PM +0000 2/14/02, Marcus Bointon wrote: >I'm new to Revolution, but have plenty of experience in Director and RB, and >I'm having a few problems with Revolution, so here's a whole bunch of >questions. Welcome! >I'm developing an app that has no visual interface at all - it reads the >contents of a file and decides whether to launch some other apps on the >basis of what it finds. So far I have built this in about 30 lines of code >as a stack script all triggered from an openstack message. I have set the >(unused) window to be invisible. Revolution crashed with a type 2 when I >also turned off the "buffer display" window property - I figured there was >no point in having a buffer for a window with no contents that would never >be seen. You can have Revolution execute a pure script; I believe you just have to handle the on startUp message. >While trying a test with this stack, I accidentally selected "suspend >revolution UI". Everything effectively became unusable, and the restore >interface button did nothing. If I put the mouse near the menu bar, it acted >like I was pressing the button up & down about once per second. Very odd. I >had to force-quit to get out of it. In situations like this, try launching the (apple)Script Editor and execute this: tell application "Revolution 1.1" to quit >Is there any equivalent of classes like in RB and Director? I'm used to just >being able to say new(script "whatever") to instantiate new objects on the >fly, especially non-visual abstract things. These don't have a place in the >stack/card/button/object metaphor that I have found. You can certainly do this, but generally the need to creat a new "something" is for visual objects, not for abstract code. At that level, Revolution is not object-oriented. You don't need a new object to store some new data, you just need a new variable (or array). >While trying to debug things, particularly using the message window to send >messages I find that often the errors generated don't reflect the problem, >for example I find that "handler not defined" usually means there is an >error in the handler in question that prevents it from compiling, rather >than it not existing, but I can't find any way of it getting me any more >detail than that. When I do manage to get a proper error dialogue appearing, >more often than not it's an error in the Revolution IDE, rather than >anything I've written which was initially very confusing as I couldn't >figure out where all this code was coming from! I feel like I'm missing >something like the "recompile now" button in Lingo. It may not be the most helpful error message, but the "handler not defined" error is technical true: if the handler won't compile, there is no handler. Generally scripts are checked for syntax errors whenever you save them. There is at least one way to circumvent this, which the Revolution crew are aware of. If you get this error, you can probably nail it quickly by copying the handler in question to another object's script (a new button will do). The syntax checker will trigger, tell you what the error is, and you can copy the handler back. >I sometimes find the debugger is out of sync with my code, even if I close >it, force an apply, and reopen the debugger, it may still show an old >version. This seems intermittent. > >Arrays (which are like lingo property lists to me) seem to act oddly in >places. For example, it's easy to display some info using "put the keys of >someArray", but if I say "put someArray" I get a vast amount of garbage >characters in the message window rather than anything meaningful (in fact >this crashed Revolution on one occasion). Saying "put someArray" doesn't automatically convert the array to text. You can put a value from an array, but not the array itself. >The split command seems to expect data in value/name pairs rather than >name/value, e.g. If I want to set some values thus: > >name=widget >size=20 >colour=yellow > >I can't split this using return and "=" as it will come out the wrong way >around, as in widget=name etc. Something more powerful like the Perl split >command would be great. Can you post a script example? It seems to be working for me. >What's the standard or usual way of handling XML in revolution? Manually. For now it's a bit difficult because the regular expression syntax is greedy. This is going to change, though. >DefaultFolder seems not terribly clever. By default it points to the >revolution app. It would be more useful if it pointed to the current stack. >Director has separate names for these places (applicationPath and >moviePath). It would also be very convenient if it appeared with a trailing >separator - but make it consistent across platforms, unlike Director! I >can't find a way of getting the current stack's path. It points at the current engine. When you build a standalone, that means it points to your application. I always treat Revolution as my application during development so I don't have to do anything special. Others start with the long name of the stack to get the path to the stack. Someone will post a canned script, I'm sure. And the separator is "/" on all platforms, so your wish is granted :-) regards, Geoff From dcragg at lacscentre.co.uk Thu Feb 14 17:48:01 2002 From: dcragg at lacscentre.co.uk (Dave Cragg) Date: Thu Feb 14 17:48:01 2002 Subject: making directory in ftp In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: At 2:37 pm -0500 14/2/02, Johnson, David wrote: >Is it possible to use ftp and a URL reference to create a new >directory on an ftp server? put into url "ftp://host/dir1/dir2/file" will create a directory if it doesn't exist, but in the current Rev version, only at a single depth. So in the the above example, if dir2 is missing it will get created, but if dir1 is also missing it won't. But you must create the file too. But you could create the file and then delete it if you only want the directory. Cheers Dave Cragg http://www.runrev.com/ Runtime Revolution Limited - Power to the Developer! From curry at kagi.com Thu Feb 14 20:42:09 2002 From: curry at kagi.com (Curry) Date: Thu Feb 14 20:42:09 2002 Subject: ANN: SmoothTalk Library 1 In-Reply-To: <200202142249.RAA10195@www.runrev.com> Message-ID: SmoothTalk Library 1 features 46 handlers to add power and convenience to your scripts, including: Math: random by range and interval, rounding to interval and up or down, two forms of sign(), formatting with temporary numberFormat and rounding control, custom comma formatting, frac(), decimal pad. Text: chunks with temporary delimiter, text string difference, aligned padding with desired fill character and truncation options, substrings, fast duplication, reversal and shuffling by character or chunk, greatest and least text items, punctuation-aware title case, versatile spreadsheet-style lookup, Nth or all offsets of substrings. System: setting and retrieving text on the clipboard, swapping variables, choosing preferred fonts, and synchronizing actions on fast and slow computers. Try it out at: http://www.kagi.com/curry/st.html Works for licensed or starter kit versions of Rev or MC. Curry Kenworthy From usher at iqcisp.com Thu Feb 14 21:02:01 2002 From: usher at iqcisp.com (Philip Usher) Date: Thu Feb 14 21:02:01 2002 Subject: Teething troubles In-Reply-To: <200202142249.RAA10195@www.runrev.com> Message-ID: on 2/14/02 4:49 PM, Marcus Bointon wrote: > can't find a way of getting the current stack's path. check out About Filename Specifications and Filepaths in the Rev Encyclopedia and filename of stack property in the Rev Dictionary. Something like this should give you a well lit path to your stack: global gStackPath on hGetStackPath put the filename of this stack into gStackPath set itemDelimiter to "/" --mac os delete last item of gStackPath end hGetStackPath -- Philip From usher at iqcisp.com Thu Feb 14 21:33:00 2002 From: usher at iqcisp.com (Philip Usher) Date: Thu Feb 14 21:33:00 2002 Subject: Dial phone In-Reply-To: <200202142249.RAA10195@www.runrev.com> Message-ID: on 2/14/02 4:49 PM, "Javier Miranda V." wrote: > How can I make Revolution dial?, I mean make a phone call!!! if you have the phone number stored in a variable, l(et's get radical and call this variable lPhoneNumber), then you can call it in a handler with the following: open file "modem:" --open modem port write "ATS0=0S7=1D" & lPhoneNumber & cr to file "modem:" close file "modem:" --close it so you don't wonder why you can't use the modem in another app. Cheers amigo, Philip From usher at iqcisp.com Thu Feb 14 21:38:00 2002 From: usher at iqcisp.com (Philip Usher) Date: Thu Feb 14 21:38:00 2002 Subject: stacks and cards In-Reply-To: <200202142249.RAA10195@www.runrev.com> Message-ID: on 2/14/02 4:49 PM, "Zac Elston" wrote: > > how can I tell additional cards to write to the field Y on Card 1? > put the value of X into fld Y of cd 1 of this stack -- Philip From kray at sonsothunder.com Fri Feb 15 02:01:01 2002 From: kray at sonsothunder.com (Ken Ray) Date: Fri Feb 15 02:01:01 2002 Subject: custom property References: Message-ID: <00c501c1b5ed$d1ee8170$f7fabc42@mckinley.dom> Yves, Use this (I'm assuming your custom property set is in a group object): set the cPathFiles[cFileA] of group "myGroup" to When you say "select" one of the keys, I'm assuming you mean to retrieve the data stored in the key? To do so, use "get/put", as in: put the cPathFiles[cFileA] of group "myGroup" into thePath Hope this helps, Ken Ray Sons of Thunder Software Email: kray at sonsothunder.com Web Site: http://www.sonsothunder.com/ ----- Original Message ----- From: "yves COPPE" To: Sent: Thursday, February 14, 2002 1:35 AM Subject: custom property > hello, > > I have a stack with cardsI On each card, there are groups. Each grp > has radio btns. Depending on the choices of the user, i want to open > a specific text file. The path to the file should be stored in a > custom property. > So : > I build each time a variable that points to one the the text file > from the chioce of the radio btns by the user. > > one custom property set : cPathFiles > 10 property set keys in Ppathfiles: cfileA, cfileB, cFileC, and so on > > The first time the user chose his file, a answer file DLOG store the > pathWay of the text file in a variable (pathtoFile). I'd like to > store this variable, so that the second time the user makes his > choice, I' don't have to ask again where is that file ! > > 1) How can I store a pathfile in each of the keys of cPathFiles > (cfileA, cfileB, cFileC, and so on) ? > 2) How can I select one of the key in the cPathFiles ? > > Thanks. > -- > Greetings. > > Yves COPPE > > Email : yvescoppe at skynet.be > _______________________________________________ > use-revolution mailing list > use-revolution at lists.runrev.com > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution > From pixelbird at interisland.net Fri Feb 15 02:05:01 2002 From: pixelbird at interisland.net (Ken Norris (dialup)) Date: Fri Feb 15 02:05:01 2002 Subject: Stack window offset, won't return In-Reply-To: Message-ID: on 2/14/02 1:11 AM, Klaus Major at kmajor at metascape.org wrote: > starting with version 2.3 there was this new property windowboundingrect > (see the index for more info...). > > (I am referring to MetaCard all the time.) > So i tested until i came up with this solution. > > At last it works for me. ----------- Thanks for the expalantion, Klaus . Ken N. From yvescoppe at skynet.be Fri Feb 15 02:39:01 2002 From: yvescoppe at skynet.be (yves COPPE) Date: Fri Feb 15 02:39:01 2002 Subject: custom property In-Reply-To: <00c501c1b5ed$d1ee8170$f7fabc42@mckinley.dom> References: <00c501c1b5ed$d1ee8170$f7fabc42@mckinley.dom> Message-ID: >Yves, > >Use this (I'm assuming your custom property set is in a group object): > > set the cPathFiles[cFileA] of group "myGroup" to > >When you say "select" one of the keys, I'm assuming you mean to retrieve the >data stored in the key? To do so, use "get/put", as in: > > put the cPathFiles[cFileA] of group "myGroup" into thePath > >Hope this helps, > >Ken Ray >Sons of Thunder Software >Email: kray at sonsothunder.com >Web Site: http://www.sonsothunder.com/ > Thank you very much. This does just what I was searching for. -- Greetings. Yves COPPE Email : yvescoppe at skynet.be From rpresender at mail.earthlink.net Fri Feb 15 07:35:01 2002 From: rpresender at mail.earthlink.net (Robert Presender) Date: Fri Feb 15 07:35:01 2002 Subject: Menus Message-ID: Hi, I want to determine the number of menu items of a particular menu by script but have been unable to find a Transcript syntax that will do it. ( Mac OS 9.2.2, RR 1.1/1.1.1b1) Would like to do something like this: on mouseUp get the number of menuItems of menu "XXXX" put it into tNum end mouseUp Will appreciate any help. Regards ... Bob From kevin at runrev.com Fri Feb 15 08:03:01 2002 From: kevin at runrev.com (Kevin Miller) Date: Fri Feb 15 08:03:01 2002 Subject: Shell Commands In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On 14/2/02 8:20 pm, Jeanne A. E. DeVoto wrote: > The problem is that shell is a function whose return value is the returned > data - not a command. So you need > > answer shell("dir C:/") And as this is on Windows, when writing to the command line, you need to use the Windows \ character. Kevin Kevin Miller Runtime Revolution Limited - Power to the Developer! Tel: +44 (0) 870 747 1165. Fax: +44 (0)1639 830 707. From kevin at runrev.com Fri Feb 15 08:04:00 2002 From: kevin at runrev.com (Kevin Miller) Date: Fri Feb 15 08:04:00 2002 Subject: Menus In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On 15/2/02 12:32 pm, Robert Presender wrote: > I want to determine the number of menu items of a particular menu by script > but have been unable to find a Transcript syntax that will do it. ( Mac OS > 9.2.2, RR 1.1/1.1.1b1) > > Would like to do something like this: > on mouseUp > get the number of menuItems of menu "XXXX" > put it into tNum > end mouseUp > > Will appreciate any help. the number of lines in the text of btn "File" -- or menu "File" Kevin Kevin Miller Runtime Revolution Limited - Power to the Developer! Tel: +44 (0) 870 747 1165. Fax: +44 (0)1639 830 707. From Doug_Ivers at lord.com Fri Feb 15 09:05:00 2002 From: Doug_Ivers at lord.com (Ivers, Doug E) Date: Fri Feb 15 09:05:00 2002 Subject: spreadsheets, or at least tables? Message-ID: <6150F6099DBED111852E0008C7241464049B365B@NTSRV-CRD04> I think this may have been discussed before, so I appologize if this is a worn-out thread... When will Rev have fields that behave like tables or spreadsheets (with cells in columns and rows)? What will be the syntax for accessing a single cell? a row? a column? Will there be the option of word-wrapping in each cell with the cell (row) height expanding as needed? -- D From yvescoppe at skynet.be Fri Feb 15 10:24:01 2002 From: yvescoppe at skynet.be (yves COPPE) Date: Fri Feb 15 10:24:01 2002 Subject: spreadsheets, or at least tables? In-Reply-To: <6150F6099DBED111852E0008C7241464049B365B@NTSRV-CRD04> References: <6150F6099DBED111852E0008C7241464049B365B@NTSRV-CRD04> Message-ID: >I think this may have been discussed before, so I appologize if this is a >worn-out thread... > >When will Rev have fields that behave like tables or spreadsheets (with >cells in columns and rows)? What will be the syntax for accessing a single >cell? a row? a column? Will there be the option of word-wrapping in each >cell with the cell (row) height expanding as needed? > >-- D > I want to insist upon the same object. Do you have an idea when you plan to release a new version of Rev with such a possibilty ? thanks. -- Greetings. Yves COPPE Email : yvescoppe at skynet.be From gcanyon at inspiredlogic.com Fri Feb 15 10:32:01 2002 From: gcanyon at inspiredlogic.com (Geoff Canyon) Date: Fri Feb 15 10:32:01 2002 Subject: Menus In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: At 4:32 AM -0800 2/15/02, Robert Presender wrote: >I want to determine the number of menu items of a particular menu by script but have been unable to find a Transcript syntax that will do it. ( Mac OS 9.2.2, RR 1.1/1.1.1b1) > >Would like to do something like this: >on mouseUp >get the number of menuItems of menu "XXXX" >put it into tNum >end mouseUp In Revolution, menus are just buttons with a costume on :-) so you can just say put the number of lines of btn "XXXX" into tNum regards, Geoff From sjoerdoptland at mac.com Fri Feb 15 10:40:00 2002 From: sjoerdoptland at mac.com (Sjoerd Op 't Land) Date: Fri Feb 15 10:40:00 2002 Subject: CGI Creation In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Tim Bobo wrote/ schreef: > Can anyone point me in the direction of any documentation about how to use > Revolution for CGI creation? Well, I'm working on a primer on that subject. It's going to be at http://www.mctools.org/~slash/index.html > -- > Tim Bobo > http://www.leftbrainmedia.com > tim at leftbrainmedia.com Regards, / Groeten, Sjoerd From sjoerdoptland at mac.com Fri Feb 15 10:40:10 2002 From: sjoerdoptland at mac.com (Sjoerd Op 't Land) Date: Fri Feb 15 10:40:10 2002 Subject: Uploading a file the webform way In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Terry Vogelaar wrote/ schreef: > I know it is possible to upload files using the FTP-protocol. I also know it > is possible to send messages to a web server just like a HTML-form would > send messages. But is it also possible to upload files that way? Like a > HTML-form that has a ? (I realize not all listers will > understand what I am talking about; sorry.) I think I realise what you're talking about, and it ought to be possible, but I also heard there were some pitfalls. Just try to make such a form and see what input you get. (Using the echo.mt script, for example.) > Terry Regards, / Groeten, Sjoerd From sjoerdoptland at mac.com Fri Feb 15 10:40:19 2002 From: sjoerdoptland at mac.com (Sjoerd Op 't Land) Date: Fri Feb 15 10:40:19 2002 Subject: Menus In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Robert Presender wrote/ schreef: > Hi, > I want to determine the number of menu items of a particular menu by script > but have been unable to find a Transcript syntax that will do it. ( Mac OS > 9.2.2, RR 1.1/1.1.1b1) I assume that your talking about the menus of the RunRev IDE. Then an expression like: put button "File" of group "revMenubar" of stack "revMenuBar" Will result in (try to type this in the Message Box): ----------------------- &New Mainstack (&New Substack &Open Stack.../O Open Recent &Stack (None Found (&Close/W (Close and Remove From Memor&y... - (Import As Control Image File.../> Snapshot Audio File... Video File... Text File... (EPS File... - All Images In Folder... All Audio Files In Folder... (New Referenced Control Image File... Quicktime-Supported File... - All Images In Folder... - (&Save/S (Save &As... (Move S&ubstack to File... (&Revert to Saved... - Build Distribution... - P&age Setup... (&Print Card.../P (Print Field... - &Quit/Q ----------------------- And an expression like: put the number of lines in button "File" of group "revMenubar" of stack "revMenuBar" Will result in the number of menuItem (also the nested ones, the 'subItems'). You may want to filter them and/or the separators, '-', out, but this is the basic. > Will appreciate any help. > > Regards ... Bob Regards, / Groeten, Sjoerd From wow at together.net Fri Feb 15 12:11:01 2002 From: wow at together.net (Richard D. Miller) Date: Fri Feb 15 12:11:01 2002 Subject: spreadsheets, or at least tables? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: I'll throw in my support for this feature as well. The OMO table object was great. It lends itself to many different applications. Rev should have it as well. Richard Miller >> I think this may have been discussed before, so I appologize if this is a >> worn-out thread... >> >> When will Rev have fields that behave like tables or spreadsheets (with >> cells in columns and rows)? What will be the syntax for accessing a single >> cell? a row? a column? Will there be the option of word-wrapping in each >> cell with the cell (row) height expanding as needed? >> >> -- D >> > > > I want to insist upon the same object. > Do you have an idea when you plan to release a new version of Rev > with such a possibilty ? > > thanks. > -- > Greetings. > > Yves COPPE From rpresender at mail.earthlink.net Fri Feb 15 17:13:01 2002 From: rpresender at mail.earthlink.net (Robert Presender) Date: Fri Feb 15 17:13:01 2002 Subject: Menu Message-ID: Thanks all for your help. One of these days I will remember that menus are buttons!!!!!! Regards ... Bob From curry at kagi.com Fri Feb 15 17:18:01 2002 From: curry at kagi.com (Curry) Date: Fri Feb 15 17:18:01 2002 Subject: spreadsheets, or at least tables? In-Reply-To: <200202151708.MAA26420@www.runrev.com> Message-ID: > When will Rev have fields that behave like tables or spreadsheets (with > cells in columns and rows)? What will be the syntax for accessing a single > cell? a row? a column? Will there be the option of word-wrapping in each > cell with the cell (row) height expanding as needed? Don't know about the advanced features, but the ReadMe for the new beta version of MetaCard says that table-fields now truncate texts within cells rather than jumping to the next tab, so at least we'll have the basics real soon now I reckon. Curry Kenworthy From matt.denton at limelight.com.au Fri Feb 15 20:37:01 2002 From: matt.denton at limelight.com.au (Matt Denton) Date: Fri Feb 15 20:37:01 2002 Subject: Combo Boxes and Popups In-Reply-To: <200202151708.MAA26475@www.runrev.com> Message-ID: <052D0E00-227D-11D6-B65B-0003930B4708@limelight.com.au> Hello. Combo boxes in OSX don't work, the button mask seems to be inverted when you stretch it out. Same with the Popup fellas. Temp fix: resize the button to min width, add a field, group then fudge it. OK in Windows and Mac OS 9.x M@ Matt Denton From miles at fojar.com Sat Feb 16 01:37:01 2002 From: miles at fojar.com (miles) Date: Sat Feb 16 01:37:01 2002 Subject: Compiling externals? Message-ID: <20020215224436.L33884-100000@fojar.com> I downloaded the MacOS distribution, but I'm unable to compile the XCMD for the Externals Tutorial. The problem seems to be that the file "MCexternalPreCompPPC.pch" is missing. I don't have the carbonized MSL C Library, so compiling for carbon isn't an option. What do I do? Miles -- While in the hospital, in the state of delirium, I suddenly realized that the ability to add numbers in parallel depends on the fact that addition is associative. -- Alexander Stepanov From kevin at runrev.com Sat Feb 16 08:26:00 2002 From: kevin at runrev.com (Kevin Miller) Date: Sat Feb 16 08:26:00 2002 Subject: spreadsheets, or at least tables? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On 15/2/02 3:22 pm, yves COPPE wrote: >> I think this may have been discussed before, so I appologize if this is a >> worn-out thread... >> >> When will Rev have fields that behave like tables or spreadsheets (with >> cells in columns and rows)? What will be the syntax for accessing a single >> cell? a row? a column? Will there be the option of word-wrapping in each >> cell with the cell (row) height expanding as needed? >> >> -- D >> > > > I want to insist upon the same object. > Do you have an idea when you plan to release a new version of Rev > with such a possibilty ? These features are planned. Soon, but certainly not for 1.1.1. Kevin Kevin Miller Runtime Revolution Limited - Power to the Developer! Tel: +44 (0) 870 747 1165. Fax: +44 (0)1639 830 707. From yvescoppe at skynet.be Sat Feb 16 10:51:01 2002 From: yvescoppe at skynet.be (yves COPPE) Date: Sat Feb 16 10:51:01 2002 Subject: spreadsheets, or at least tables? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: >These features are planned. Soon, but certainly not for 1.1.1. > >Kevin > 1) Is this possible to plan an alignement on the left, right and decimal ? 2) Is this possible to choose which kind of decimal : a "." (point) for US Langage, a "," (comma) for some European langage for the alignement of the column ? 3) Is it possible to add chart capacities ? (bar, curve, pie?) ? 4) What do you mean with "soon" ? There many questions about, but if you're developping some tools, let us hope that we may act on your goal with our whishes ? By the way, thank you very much for listening to our problems. Cheers. -- Greetings. Yves COPPE Email : yvescoppe at skynet.be From yvescoppe at skynet.be Sat Feb 16 14:44:01 2002 From: yvescoppe at skynet.be (yves COPPE) Date: Sat Feb 16 14:44:01 2002 Subject: build problem Message-ID: Hello, I've an app. doing some stuff. I also can open a file with MS Word on MAC system 9. The script ends with : "launch DocFile with MSWordapp" docfile is the filepath to the file MSWordapp is the filepath to MS Word When I've finished, I quit. 1) When I'm in RR, no any problem 2) When I build a standalone. - if I do my stuff and quit : no problem - if I use the script with the "launch DocFile with MSWordapp" and later I quit my application, I get a system error type 1. I've tried to increase the allowed memory of my appl without success. Any idea ? -- Greetings. Yves COPPE Email : yvescoppe at skynet.be From JohnRule at aol.com Sat Feb 16 14:48:01 2002 From: JohnRule at aol.com (JohnRule at aol.com) Date: Sat Feb 16 14:48:01 2002 Subject: Script Debugger from Script? Message-ID: <175.3b32f90.29a010d4@aol.com> I asked this question before, and I don't think it received a response: Is there a way to go directly from a script to the Debugger (and start debugging that script)? I am losing too much time 'looking' for a script in the Degugger popups... JR From kevin at runrev.com Sat Feb 16 14:58:03 2002 From: kevin at runrev.com (Kevin Miller) Date: Sat Feb 16 14:58:03 2002 Subject: Script Debugger from Script? In-Reply-To: <175.3b32f90.29a010d4@aol.com> Message-ID: On 16/2/02 7:45 pm, JohnRule at aol.com wrote: > I asked this question before, and I don't think it received a response: > > Is there a way to go directly from a script to the Debugger (and start > debugging that script)? > > I am losing too much time 'looking' for a script in the Degugger popups... Use the "breakpoint" command. The debugger must be open before you send the message that runs the script though. Also, if the stack is not toplevel or is a Revolution stack, you may need to open the message box (after opening the debugger) and run: set the traceStack to the mouseStack To force the debugger to "watch" that stack before starting to run. Kind regards, Kevin Kevin Miller Runtime Revolution Limited - Power to the Developer! Tel: +44 (0) 870 747 1165. Fax: +44 (0)1639 830 707. From kevin at runrev.com Sat Feb 16 15:02:01 2002 From: kevin at runrev.com (Kevin Miller) Date: Sat Feb 16 15:02:01 2002 Subject: spreadsheets, or at least tables? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On 16/2/02 3:47 pm, yves COPPE wrote: > 1) Is this possible to plan an alignement on the left, right and decimal ? > 2) Is this possible to choose which kind of decimal : a "." (point) > for US Langage, a "," (comma) for some European langage for the > alignement of the column ? > 3) Is it possible to add chart capacities ? (bar, curve, pie?) ? I wouldn't like to comment on individual features at this stage - but we have been listening to people's priorities and will be doing our best to come up with a good solution. > 4) What do you mean with "soon" ? Again, this is the next version up we are talking about and as such it is a little too far away to be able to give a reliable date. But we are working on this, and it is urgent for a number of people. > There many questions about, but if you're developping some tools, let > us hope that we may act on your goal with our whishes ? > > > By the way, thank you very much for listening to our problems. Thanks - we do our best! Kind regards, Kevin Kevin Miller Runtime Revolution Limited - Power to the Developer! Tel: +44 (0) 870 747 1165. Fax: +44 (0)1639 830 707. From kevin at runrev.com Sat Feb 16 15:02:10 2002 From: kevin at runrev.com (Kevin Miller) Date: Sat Feb 16 15:02:10 2002 Subject: build problem In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On 16/2/02 7:41 pm, yves COPPE wrote: > I've an app. doing some stuff. I also can open a file with MS Word on > MAC system 9. > The script ends with : > "launch DocFile with MSWordapp" > > docfile is the filepath to the file > MSWordapp is the filepath to MS Word > > When I've finished, I quit. > > > 1) When I'm in RR, no any problem > > 2) When I build a standalone. > > - if I do my stuff and quit : no problem > - if I use the script with the "launch DocFile with MSWordapp" and > later I quit my application, I get a system error type 1. > I've tried to increase the allowed memory of my appl without success. > > Any idea ? Send an example (stack, not standalone) to support at runrev.com. Kevin Kevin Miller Runtime Revolution Limited - Power to the Developer! Tel: +44 (0) 870 747 1165. Fax: +44 (0)1639 830 707. From Stgecft at aol.com Sun Feb 17 09:04:02 2002 From: Stgecft at aol.com (Stgecft at aol.com) Date: Sun Feb 17 09:04:02 2002 Subject: No Subject Message-ID: Fields have the "Shared tex on each card" property to control letting you enter different text in the same field of different cards. How do I get my check box buttons to act independently on new pages of the same background. In order to get them to copy over when "New Card" is sellect, they have been grouped and their background behavior is set to true. Should I be grouping these buttons and asking in the script for them to e coped and pasted on the new card? How about a little help? Randy Kent From kevin at runrev.com Sun Feb 17 09:19:00 2002 From: kevin at runrev.com (Kevin Miller) Date: Sun Feb 17 09:19:00 2002 Subject: button behavior In-Reply-To: <173.3b76aa3.29a110bb@aol.com> Message-ID: On 17/2/02 1:57 pm, Stgecft at aol.com wrote: > Fields have the "Shared tex on each card" property to control letting you > enter different text in the same field of different cards. How do I get my > check box buttons to act independently on new pages of the same background. > > In order to get them to copy over when "New Card" is sellect, they have been > grouped and their background behavior is set to true. Should I be grouping > these buttons and asking in the script for them to e coped and pasted on the > new card? > > How about a little help? Ensure that the checkbox "Share hilite on each card" in the button properties palette is not checked. Kevin Kevin Miller Runtime Revolution Limited - Power to the Developer! Tel: +44 (0) 870 747 1165. Fax: +44 (0)1639 830 707. From mike at cyber-ny.com Sun Feb 17 09:31:01 2002 From: mike at cyber-ny.com (Mike Brown) Date: Sun Feb 17 09:31:01 2002 Subject: deslecting the line tool In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Good Morning, I have a question regarding the selection and deselection of the line too. I have a button with this script: on mouseup set the tool to "line tool" end mouseup That sets my pointer to the line drawing tool, but I cant find a script or method to switch back to a pointer or browse tool. When I placed a script in another button to set the pointer to the browse tool, it doesn't work. The line tool just draws a dot or line on top of the button. Any recommendations? Thanks, Mike Mike Brown Cyber-NY Interactive 34 East 23rd Street New York, NY 10010 Phone: 212-475-2721 Toll Free: 1-888-70-CYBER Web: www.cyber-ny.com From iansummerfield at btconnect.com Sun Feb 17 09:45:01 2002 From: iansummerfield at btconnect.com (Ian Summerfield) Date: Sun Feb 17 09:45:01 2002 Subject: deslecting the line tool In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On 17/2/02 2:27 pm, "Mike Brown" scribed: > Good Morning, > > I have a question regarding the selection and deselection of the line too. > I have a button with this script: > > on mouseup > set the tool to "line tool" > end mouseup > > That sets my pointer to the line drawing tool, but I cant find a script or > method to switch back to a pointer or browse tool. When I placed a script > in another button to set the pointer to the browse tool, it doesn't work. > The line tool just draws a dot or line on top of the button. Any > recommendations? > I thought you had to use: Choose line tool Choose browse tool You can "get the tool" but I'm not sure you can "set the tool" From iansummerfield at btconnect.com Sun Feb 17 09:58:01 2002 From: iansummerfield at btconnect.com (Ian Summerfield) Date: Sun Feb 17 09:58:01 2002 Subject: deslecting the line tool In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On 17/2/02 2:27 pm, "Mike Brown" scribed: > Good Morning, > > I have a question regarding the selection and deselection of the line too. > I have a button with this script: > > on mouseup > set the tool to "line tool" > end mouseup > > That sets my pointer to the line drawing tool, but I cant find a script or > method to switch back to a pointer or browse tool. When I placed a script > in another button to set the pointer to the browse tool, it doesn't work. > The line tool just draws a dot or line on top of the button. Any > recommendations? Another thought, you can't click at the location of a card button with the paint tool selected, doing so would only draw a dot, it's only the browse tool that could click a button. So if you're trying to have a script or the use click a button to go back to the browse tool which the line tool is selected you simply can't. If it's script then send mouseup instead of clicking the button. If you've fallen to an idle state letting the user do some free form painting and want them to change the tool back by clicking a button you could try having your browse tool button set the tool back to browse tool by using the mousewithin, if you save the current tool, set to browse tool, then I think the user will be able to click the button, if the button isn't clicked then a mouseleave could restore the saved tool. OR you could just have some kind of idle handler set back to browse tool, or a delayed send do it before giving the user control. Does this make sense? -i- From mike at cyber-ny.com Sun Feb 17 10:39:01 2002 From: mike at cyber-ny.com (Mike Brown) Date: Sun Feb 17 10:39:01 2002 Subject: deslecting the line tool In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Hi Ian, Thanks for the suggestions. I had already attempted most of the examples in the Transcript Dictionary. MouseWithin, MouseEnter, Send MouseUp... none of these handlers work while the line tool is selected. I just now tried again and still am not having any luck. I am looking for a behavior similar to the Rev Tools palette. I am also looking for any examples in the Rev Documentation. Thanks, Mike >> I have a question regarding the selection and deselection of the line too. >> I have a button with this script: >> >> on mouseup >> set the tool to "line tool" >> end mouseup >> >> That sets my pointer to the line drawing tool, but I cant find a script or >> method to switch back to a pointer or browse tool. When I placed a script >> in another button to set the pointer to the browse tool, it doesn't work. >> The line tool just draws a dot or line on top of the button. Any >> recommendations? > > Another thought, you can't click at the location of a card button with the > paint tool selected, doing so would only draw a dot, it's only the browse > tool that could click a button. So if you're trying to have a script or > the use click a button to go back to the browse tool which the line tool is > selected you simply can't. If it's script then send mouseup instead of > clicking the button. If you've fallen to an idle state letting the user do > some free form painting and want them to change the tool back by clicking a > button you could try having your browse tool button set the tool back to > browse tool by using the mousewithin, if you save the current tool, set to > browse tool, then I think the user will be able to click the button, if the > button isn't clicked then a mouseleave could restore the saved tool. OR you > could just have some kind of idle handler set back to browse tool, or a > delayed send do it before giving the user control. Does this make sense? > > -i- > > _______________________________________________ > use-revolution mailing list > use-revolution at lists.runrev.com > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution > From francois.cuneo at cuk.ch Sun Feb 17 10:54:01 2002 From: francois.cuneo at cuk.ch (Fran=?ISO-8859-1?B?5w==?=ois Cuneo) Date: Sun Feb 17 10:54:01 2002 Subject: Scrollbar Message-ID: Hello! I have to write tomorrow a press review about Revolution. It's a good product, but how is it possible to send the value of a scrollbar to a field I have tested Put the value of scrollbar "myscrollbar" into cd fld "myfield" And it don't works. Thank you for your answer Friendly Fran?ois -------------------------------------------------------------------------- Fran?ois Cuneo Au Champ du Pr? 1353 Bofflens e-mail: mailto:francois.cuneo at cuk.ch Web Cuk New Technologies, programmes ?ducatifs pour Mac: http://www.cuk.ch Web CUK, humeurs et tests sur le mac: http://www.cuk.ch/articles T?l: ++41 (024) 441.17.81 Fax: ++41 (024) 441.17.05 From k_major at osnabrueck.netsurf.de Sun Feb 17 11:02:01 2002 From: k_major at osnabrueck.netsurf.de (Klaus Major) Date: Sun Feb 17 11:02:01 2002 Subject: Scrollbar In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <7B0425ED-23BF-11D6-B909-000A27B49A96@osnabrueck.netsurf.de> Hi Fran?ois, > Hello! > I have to write tomorrow a press review about Revolution. It's a good > product, but how is it possible to send the value of a scrollbar to a > field > I have tested > Put the value of scrollbar "myscrollbar" into cd fld "myfield" put the thumbpos of sb "yourscrollbar" into fld "yourfield" That's the name of the property you need to query. > And it don't works. Now it will ;-) > Thank you for your answer You are welcome :-) > Friendly > Fran?ois Regards Klaus Major k_major at osnabrueck.netsurf.de From mike at cyber-ny.com Sun Feb 17 11:28:01 2002 From: mike at cyber-ny.com (Mike Brown) Date: Sun Feb 17 11:28:01 2002 Subject: Scrollbar In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Try on scrollbarDrag put the thumbposition of me into fld "yourfld" end scrollbarDrag on 2/17/02 10:51 AM, Fran?ois Cuneo at francois.cuneo at cuk.ch wrote: > Hello! > I have to write tomorrow a press review about Revolution. It's a good > product, but how is it possible to send the value of a scrollbar to a field > I have tested > Put the value of scrollbar "myscrollbar" into cd fld "myfield" > And it don't works. > Thank you for your answer > Friendly > Fran?ois > -------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Fran?ois Cuneo > Au Champ du Pr? > 1353 Bofflens > > e-mail: mailto:francois.cuneo at cuk.ch > > Web Cuk New Technologies, programmes ?ducatifs pour Mac: http://www.cuk.ch > Web CUK, humeurs et tests sur le mac: http://www.cuk.ch/articles > > T?l: ++41 (024) 441.17.81 > Fax: ++41 (024) 441.17.05 > > > > _______________________________________________ > use-revolution mailing list > use-revolution at lists.runrev.com > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution > Mike Brown Creative Director / Partner Cyber-NY Interactive 34 East 23rd Street New York, NY 10010 Phone: 212-475-2721 Toll Free: 1-888-70-CYBER Web: www.cyber-ny.com From francois.cuneo at cuk.ch Sun Feb 17 12:09:02 2002 From: francois.cuneo at cuk.ch (Fran=?ISO-8859-1?B?5w==?=ois Cuneo) Date: Sun Feb 17 12:09:02 2002 Subject: Scrollbar In-Reply-To: Message-ID: > Try > > on scrollbarDrag > put the thumbposition of me into fld "yourfld" > end scrollbarDrag > > on 2/17/02 10:51 AM, Fran?ois Cuneo at francois.cuneo at cuk.ch wrote: > >> Hello! >> I have to write tomorrow a press review about Revolution. It's a good >> product, but how is it possible to send the value of a scrollbar to a field >> I have tested >> Put the value of scrollbar "myscrollbar" into cd fld "myfield" >> And it don't works. >> Thank you for your answer >> Friendly >> Fran?ois >> ------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Thank you! But now, I want to make only 3 positions (1, 2 and 3) I have tried 1 for increment on clicking Arrow And 1 for increment on clicking scollbar It works but only wiht clic (it's usual). But when we drag the scroll, the position can be anywhere. I think that I may write "if thumbposition of me > 1.5, then th thumbposition of me is 2 But is it something more simple? And what is the utility of the "show value"??? It showes nothing in fact! Thank you again Bye Fran?ois -------------------------------------------------------------------------- Fran?ois Cuneo Au Champ du Pr? 1353 Bofflens e-mail: mailto:francois.cuneo at cuk.ch Web Cuk New Technologies, programmes ?ducatifs pour Mac: http://www.cuk.ch Web CUK, humeurs et tests sur le mac: http://www.cuk.ch/articles T?l: ++41 (024) 441.17.81 Fax: ++41 (024) 441.17.05 From francois.cuneo at cuk.ch Sun Feb 17 12:12:01 2002 From: francois.cuneo at cuk.ch (Fran=?ISO-8859-1?B?5w==?=ois Cuneo) Date: Sun Feb 17 12:12:01 2002 Subject: Just bevore the review, and before I write idiocies =?ISO-8859-1?B?ig==?= In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Hello! It's me again! As I have said before, I will put online a review about Revolution, I have written with SuperCard, HyperCard and finally RealBasic. All these products where good. Revolution is Fantastic but for me, the documentation is not so good as the product. The tutorials are very fine, but the big documentation is missing. I try to find something in PDF, very big and complete. Exist it before I write some idiocies? Why is it impossible to find some interesting things by example about the scrollbars in the documentation? Where can I find how works the "Script Debug Mode?" I know, the mailing list is useful for all that, but a good documentation for a good product is good too. Thank you for your answer. Friendly Fran?ois -------------------------------------------------------------------------- Fran?ois Cuneo Au Champ du Pr? 1353 Bofflens e-mail: mailto:francois.cuneo at cuk.ch Web Cuk New Technologies, programmes ?ducatifs pour Mac: http://www.cuk.ch Web CUK, humeurs et tests sur le mac: http://www.cuk.ch/articles T?l: ++41 (024) 441.17.81 Fax: ++41 (024) 441.17.05 From kevin at runrev.com Sun Feb 17 12:24:01 2002 From: kevin at runrev.com (Kevin Miller) Date: Sun Feb 17 12:24:01 2002 Subject: deslecting the line tool In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On 17/2/02 3:35 pm, Mike Brown wrote: > Thanks for the suggestions. I had already attempted most of the examples in > the Transcript Dictionary. MouseWithin, MouseEnter, Send MouseUp... none of > these handlers work while the line tool is selected. I just now tried again > and still am not having any luck. I am looking for a behavior similar to > the Rev Tools palette. I am also looking for any examples in the Rev > Documentation. The tools palette is a separate stack in palette mode, so isn't subject to the current tool setting. Kevin Kevin Miller Runtime Revolution Limited - Power to the Developer! Tel: +44 (0) 870 747 1165. Fax: +44 (0)1639 830 707. From k_major at osnabrueck.netsurf.de Sun Feb 17 12:59:01 2002 From: k_major at osnabrueck.netsurf.de (Klaus Major) Date: Sun Feb 17 12:59:01 2002 Subject: Scrollbar In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Bonsoir Fran?ois, >> Try >> >> on scrollbarDrag >> put the thumbposition of me into fld "yourfld" >> end scrollbarDrag >> >> on 2/17/02 10:51 AM, Fran?ois Cuneo at francois.cuneo at cuk.ch wrote: >> >>> Hello! >>> I have to write tomorrow a press review about Revolution. It's a good >>> product, but how is it possible to send the value of a scrollbar to a >>> field >>> I have tested >>> Put the value of scrollbar "myscrollbar" into cd fld "myfield" >>> And it don't works. >>> Thank you for your answer >>> Friendly >>> Fran?ois >>> ------------------------------------------------------------------- >> >> > Thank you! > But now, I want to make only 3 positions (1, 2 and 3) > I have tried 1 for increment on clicking Arrow > And 1 for increment on clicking scollbar > > It works but only wiht clic (it's usual). But when we drag the scroll, > the > position can be anywhere. Don't panic ;-) It is just the name "thumbposition" that is a bit misleading. Although it sounds like that property describes the actual position of the thumb in pixels, it IS in fact the "currently selected" value. So the following lines are not necessary: > I think that I may write "if thumbposition of me > 1.5, then th > thumbposition of me is 2 > But is it something more simple? See above. > > And what is the utility of the "show value"??? It showes nothing in > fact! Just drag the scrollbar "bigger" until the value appears under the scrollbar... > > Thank you again You are welcome :-) > Bye > Fran?ois Au revoir Klaus Major k_major at osnabrueck.netsurf.de From JohnRule at aol.com Sun Feb 17 14:23:01 2002 From: JohnRule at aol.com (JohnRule at aol.com) Date: Sun Feb 17 14:23:01 2002 Subject: Happily debugging now Message-ID: <184.3c3db12.29a15c72@aol.com> Thank you Kevin...that is exactly what I was looking for! JR In a message dated 2/17/02 1:15:45 PM Atlantic Standard Time, use-revolution-request at lists.runrev.com writes: > Use the "breakpoint" command. The debugger must be open before you send the > message that runs the script though. Also, if the stack is not toplevel or > is a Revolution stack, you may need to open the message box (after opening > the debugger) and run: > > set the traceStack to the mouseStack > > To force the debugger to "watch" that stack before starting to run. > > Kind regards, > > Kevin > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From francois.cuneo at cuk.ch Sun Feb 17 14:30:01 2002 From: francois.cuneo at cuk.ch (Fran=?ISO-8859-1?B?5w==?=ois Cuneo) Date: Sun Feb 17 14:30:01 2002 Subject: Scrollbar In-Reply-To: Message-ID: > Bonsoir Fran?ois, > Guten Abend Klaus! Danke! Merci > > Don't panic ;-) > > It is just the name "thumbposition" that is a bit misleading. > > Although it sounds like that property describes the actual position of > the > thumb in pixels, it IS in fact the "currently selected" value. > > So the following lines are not necessary: > >> I think that I may write "if thumbposition of me > 1.5, then th >> thumbposition of me is 2 > >> But is it something more simple? > > See above. No, I don't see, I think you don't understand what I mean: I use a scrollbar in fact a scale. I want that only three positions are possible. You see? Like a switch with the sound "clic-clic-clic" each time that a position is passed. So how is it possible >> > > Just drag the scrollbar "bigger" until the value appears under the > scrollbar... OK! I'm a little stupid! :=) > >> >> Thank you again > > Au revoir Auf wiedersehn! > Klaus Major > k_major at osnabrueck.netsurf.de > > _______________________________________________ > use-revolution mailing list > use-revolution at lists.runrev.com > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution > > -------------------------------------------------------------------------- Fran?ois Cuneo Au Champ du Pr? 1353 Bofflens e-mail: mailto:francois.cuneo at cuk.ch Web Cuk New Technologies, programmes ?ducatifs pour Mac: http://www.cuk.ch Web CUK, humeurs et tests sur le mac: http://www.cuk.ch/articles T?l: ++41 (024) 441.17.81 Fax: ++41 (024) 441.17.05 From gcanyon at inspiredlogic.com Sun Feb 17 15:30:01 2002 From: gcanyon at inspiredlogic.com (Geoff Canyon) Date: Sun Feb 17 15:30:01 2002 Subject: Just bevore the review, and before I write idiocies In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: At 6:09 PM +0100 2/17/02, Fran?ois Cuneo wrote: >I try to find something in PDF, very big and complete. Exist it before I >write some idiocies? The RTFer stack can make this for you. It is not a product of RunRev; I created it because people were looking for printed documentation. It is available at It will export the entire online documentation, to an RTF file you can open in Microsoft Word or AppleWorks. Note that it is 2800 pages long! Several people have pointed out that it doesn't have page numbers, so be aware of that. It can also export a single text file, or a set of a few thousand HTML files, complete with cross-referenced hyperlinks. If you have any questions or need any help, feel free to contact me directly. regards, Geoff From Roger.E.Eller at sealedair.com Sun Feb 17 15:35:01 2002 From: Roger.E.Eller at sealedair.com (Roger.E.Eller at sealedair.com) Date: Sun Feb 17 15:35:01 2002 Subject: Scrollbar Message-ID: > No, I don't see, I think you don't understand what I mean: I use a scrollbar > in fact a scale. I want that only three positions are possible. > You see? Like a switch with the sound "clic-clic-clic" each time that a > position is passed. > > So how is it possible >>> >> >> Just drag the scrollbar "bigger" until the value appears under the >> scrollbar... > OK! I'm a little stupid! :=) I could not do it either... exactly, so this was my attempt. In the properties of the scrollbar, I set the Start Value to 1 and the End Value to 3. No matter what, the arrow that indicates thumbPosition did not "snap" to the absolute position of 1, 2, or 3. So I made a Plus and Minus button which contained this script on mouseUp if the name of me = "+" then set the thumbPosition of sb "SB1" to (the thumbPosition of sb "SB1") +1 else set the thumbPosition of sb "SB1" to (the thumbPosition of sb "SB1") -1 end if end mouseUp That works, but not when dragging the actual arrow of the Scrollbar. ~Roger Eller From katir at hindu.org Sun Feb 17 16:05:05 2002 From: katir at hindu.org (Sivakatirswami) Date: Sun Feb 17 16:05:05 2002 Subject: Hierarchical File/Directory Structure Code Message-ID: Has anyone produced a "finder like" (Mac) interface for directories and files on disk? I know we have Synder's tree and Altuit' XML tools but wondering is anyone has built this already to a) read a volume b) put up a list in a field of the directories and files c) have "drop down" arrows that will expand to next level etc.? i.e. I need to have a dynamic file selection ability "inside" MC/Rev (with a Mac look and feel to it) Hinduism Today Sivakatirswami Editor's Assistant/Production Manager katir at hindu.org www.HinduismToday.com, www.HimalayanAcademy.com, www.Gurudeva.org, www.hindu.org Read The Master Course Lesson of the Day at http://www.gurudeva.org/lesson.shtml From katir at hindu.org Sun Feb 17 16:20:01 2002 From: katir at hindu.org (Sivakatirswami) Date: Sun Feb 17 16:20:01 2002 Subject: Hierarchical File/Directory Structure Code Message-ID: Has anyone produced a "finder like" (Mac) interface for directories and files on disk? I know we have Synder's tree and Altuit' XML tools but wondering is anyone has built this already to a) read a volume b) put up a list in a field of the directories and files c) have "drop down" arrows that will expand to next level etc.? i.e. I need to have a dynamic file selection ability "inside" MC/Rev (with a Mac look and feel to it) Hinduism Today Sivakatirswami Editor's Assistant/Production Manager katir at hindu.org www.HinduismToday.com, www.HimalayanAcademy.com, www.Gurudeva.org, www.hindu.org Read The Master Course Lesson of the Day at http://www.gurudeva.org/lesson.shtml _______________________________________________ metacard mailing list metacard at lists.runrev.com http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/metacard From kray at sonsothunder.com Sun Feb 17 16:39:01 2002 From: kray at sonsothunder.com (Ken Ray) Date: Sun Feb 17 16:39:01 2002 Subject: Scrollbar References: Message-ID: <007101c1b7fb$291e2400$05ebbc42@charter.net> The closest I can come to what you want is: set the style of sb 1 to "scale" set the startValue of sb 1 to 1 set the endValue of sb 1 to 3 set the thumbSize of sb 1 to 1 set the pageInc of sb 1 to 2 set the lineInc of sb 1 to 1 -- this is ignored in scales though The scrollbar has this script: on scrollbarDrag set the thumbPos of me to (the thumbpos of me) end scrollbarDrag This sort of "snaps" to the proper thumbpositions, but it flickers as it's doing so. I'll keep hunting for a better solution, but it would be great if Rev had a "snapToPage" property (or equivalent) that would take the flickering away. Ken Ray Sons of Thunder Software Email: kray at sonsothunder.com Web site: http://www.sonsothunder.com/ ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Sunday, February 17, 2002 2:32 PM Subject: Re: Scrollbar > > > No, I don't see, I think you don't understand what I mean: I use a > scrollbar > > in fact a scale. I want that only three positions are possible. > > You see? Like a switch with the sound "clic-clic-clic" each time that a > > position is passed. > > > > So how is it possible > >>> > >> > >> Just drag the scrollbar "bigger" until the value appears under the > >> scrollbar... > > OK! I'm a little stupid! :=) > > I could not do it either... exactly, so this was my attempt. > In the properties of the scrollbar, I set the Start Value to 1 and the End > Value to 3. > No matter what, the arrow that indicates thumbPosition did not "snap" to > the absolute position of 1, 2, or 3. > So I made a Plus and Minus button which contained this script > > on mouseUp > if the name of me = "+" then > set the thumbPosition of sb "SB1" to (the thumbPosition of sb "SB1") > +1 > else > set the thumbPosition of sb "SB1" to (the thumbPosition of sb "SB1") > -1 > end if > end mouseUp > > That works, but not when dragging the actual arrow of the Scrollbar. > > ~Roger Eller > > > > _______________________________________________ > use-revolution mailing list > use-revolution at lists.runrev.com > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution > From francois.cuneo at cuk.ch Sun Feb 17 17:23:06 2002 From: francois.cuneo at cuk.ch (Fran=?ISO-8859-1?B?5w==?=ois Cuneo) Date: Sun Feb 17 17:23:06 2002 Subject: Just bevore the review, and before I write idiocies In-Reply-To: Message-ID: > At 6:09 PM +0100 2/17/02, Fran?ois Cuneo wrote: >> I try to find something in PDF, very big and complete. Exist it before I >> write some idiocies? > > The RTFer stack can make this for you. It is not a product of RunRev; I > created it because people were looking for printed documentation. > > It is available at > > It will export the entire online documentation, to an RTF file you can open in > Microsoft Word or AppleWorks. Note that it is 2800 pages long! Several people > have pointed out that it doesn't have page numbers, so be aware of that. > > It can also export a single text file, or a set of a few thousand HTML files, > complete with cross-referenced hyperlinks. > > If you have any questions or need any help, feel free to contact me directly. > > regards, > > Geoff > _______________________________________________ > use-revolution mailing list > use-revolution at lists.runrev.com > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution > > Thank you! I will try this export. -------------------------------------------------------------------------- Fran?ois Cuneo Au Champ du Pr? 1353 Bofflens e-mail: mailto:francois.cuneo at cuk.ch Web Cuk New Technologies, programmes ?ducatifs pour Mac: http://www.cuk.ch Web CUK, humeurs et tests sur le mac: http://www.cuk.ch/articles T?l: ++41 (024) 441.17.81 Fax: ++41 (024) 441.17.05 From francois.cuneo at cuk.ch Sun Feb 17 17:24:01 2002 From: francois.cuneo at cuk.ch (Fran=?ISO-8859-1?B?5w==?=ois Cuneo) Date: Sun Feb 17 17:24:01 2002 Subject: Scrollbar In-Reply-To: Message-ID: > >> No, I don't see, I think you don't understand what I mean: I use a > scrollbar >> in fact a scale. I want that only three positions are possible. >> You see? Like a switch with the sound "clic-clic-clic" each time that a >> position is passed. >> >> So how is it possible >>>> >>> >>> Just drag the scrollbar "bigger" until the value appears under the >>> scrollbar... >> OK! I'm a little stupid! :=) > > I could not do it either... exactly, so this was my attempt. > In the properties of the scrollbar, I set the Start Value to 1 and the End > Value to 3. > No matter what, the arrow that indicates thumbPosition did not "snap" to > the absolute position of 1, 2, or 3. > So I made a Plus and Minus button which contained this script > > on mouseUp > if the name of me = "+" then > set the thumbPosition of sb "SB1" to (the thumbPosition of sb "SB1") > +1 > else > set the thumbPosition of sb "SB1" to (the thumbPosition of sb "SB1") > -1 > end if > end mouseUp > > That works, but not when dragging the actual arrow of the Scrollbar. > > ~Roger Eller So I'm not alone! Thank you Roger for your answer. Friendly Fran?ois -------------------------------------------------------------------------- Fran?ois Cuneo Au Champ du Pr? 1353 Bofflens e-mail: mailto:francois.cuneo at cuk.ch Web Cuk New Technologies, programmes ?ducatifs pour Mac: http://www.cuk.ch Web CUK, humeurs et tests sur le mac: http://www.cuk.ch/articles T?l: ++41 (024) 441.17.81 Fax: ++41 (024) 441.17.05 From drvaughan55 at mac.com Sun Feb 17 19:02:01 2002 From: drvaughan55 at mac.com (David Vaughan) Date: Sun Feb 17 19:02:01 2002 Subject: deslecting the line tool In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <6E5B419E-2402-11D6-B1F7-000393598038@mac.com> On Monday, February 18, 2002, at 02:35 , Mike Brown wrote: > Hi Ian, > > Thanks for the suggestions. I had already attempted most of the > examples in > the Transcript Dictionary. MouseWithin, MouseEnter, Send MouseUp... > none of > these handlers work while the line tool is selected. I just now tried > again > and still am not having any luck. I am looking for a behavior similar > to > the Rev Tools palette. I am also looking for any examples in the Rev > Documentation. > > Thanks, > Mike > >>> I have a question regarding the selection and deselection of the line >>> too. >>> I have a button with this script: >>> >>> on mouseup >>> set the tool to "line tool" >>> end mouseup >>> >>> That sets my pointer to the line drawing tool, but I cant find a >>> script or >>> method to switch back to a pointer or browse tool. When I placed a >>> script >>> in another button to set the pointer to the browse tool, it doesn't >>> work. >>> The line tool just draws a dot or line on top of the button. Any >>> recommendations? >> snip Mike I don't know if things like the mouseLoc are deprecated but this worked as a demonstration, and may do until someone thinks of something better. The problem appears to be that messages halt (from what I saw) when you choose a drawing tool, hence none of the mouse messages (or idle) will help. Therefore, we need our own monitor. This is my working demo. local LmsgID on mouseUp choose line tool send "toolMonitor" to me in 500 milliseconds put the result into LmsgID -- This was a failsafe line used while debugging -- send "getOut" to me in 10 seconds end mouseUp on toolMonitor if within(button "reBrowse",the mouseLoc) then getOut else send "toolMonitor" to me in 500 milliseconds put the result into LmsgID end if end toolMonitor on getOut choose Browse tool cancel LmsgID end getOut regards David From jphurley at jps.net Sun Feb 17 20:14:01 2002 From: jphurley at jps.net (Jim Hurley) Date: Sun Feb 17 20:14:01 2002 Subject: Discrete scrollbar settings In-Reply-To: <200202180003.TAA03398@www.runrev.com> References: <200202180003.TAA03398@www.runrev.com> Message-ID: > >on scrollbarDrag > set the thumbPos of me to (the thumbpos of me) >end scrollbarDrag > >This sort of "snaps" to the proper thumbpositions, but it flickers as it's >doing so. I'll keep hunting for a better solution, but it would be great if >Rev had a "snapToPage" property (or equivalent) that would take the >flickering away. I think this might work for you. Set the scrollbar script to: local temp on scrollbarDrag set startValue of me to 1 set endvalue of me to 3 put the thumbposition of me into temp put round(temp) into temp end scrollbarDrag on mouseUp if temp = 1 then set the thumbposition of me to 1 if temp = 2 then set the thumbposition of me to 2 if temp = 3 then set the thumbposition me to 3 end mouseUp -- Jim Hurley From jphurley at jps.net Sun Feb 17 20:22:01 2002 From: jphurley at jps.net (Jim Hurley) Date: Sun Feb 17 20:22:01 2002 Subject: Discrete scrollbar settings Message-ID: > >on scrollbarDrag > set the thumbPos of me to (the thumbpos of me) >end scrollbarDrag > >This sort of "snaps" to the proper thumbpositions, but it flickers as it's >doing so. I'll keep hunting for a better solution, but it would be great if >Rev had a "snapToPage" property (or equivalent) that would take the >flickering away. As W. C. Fields would say: "Pardon my redundancy." Much simpler: local temp on scrollbarDrag set startValue of me to 1 set endvalue of me to 3 put the thumbposition of me into temp put round(temp) into temp end scrollbarDrag on mouseUp set the thumbposition of me to temp end mouseUp -- Jim Hurley From shaosean at unitz.ca Sun Feb 17 20:50:00 2002 From: shaosean at unitz.ca (Shao Sean) Date: Sun Feb 17 20:50:00 2002 Subject: Hierarchical File/Directory Structure Code References: Message-ID: <004101c1b81e$234ea1d0$88b15bd1@dreamlanpc> i've actually started work on one that looks like the Mac OS X file browser (the full look and everything).. Mac OS shouldn't be too hard, except for the fact it has like twenty different views and ways of doing things, so that could take a bit longer to code all the functionality.. lemme know if you still need this.. From marcus at synchromedia.co.uk Mon Feb 18 07:37:01 2002 From: marcus at synchromedia.co.uk (Marcus Bointon) Date: Mon Feb 18 07:37:01 2002 Subject: Version checking Message-ID: At one point in my app I need to compare the vale of qtversion() with a string containing a version number. I thought this would be straightforward enough, but it seems not. If my string contains "5.0.2" and I compare it to qtversion, I don't get sensible results, even though qtversion seems to be returning 5.0.2, or at least something that looks like it. It's looking like there's a type conversion problem or something. What am I doing wrong? Marcus -- Marcus Bointon Synchromedia Limited: Putting you in the picture marcus at synchromedia.co.uk | http://www.synchromedia.co.uk From preid at reidit.co.uk Mon Feb 18 08:34:01 2002 From: preid at reidit.co.uk (Peter Reid) Date: Mon Feb 18 08:34:01 2002 Subject: Version checking In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: >At one point in my app I need to compare the vale of qtversion() with a >string containing a version number. I thought this would be straightforward >enough, but it seems not. > >If my string contains "5.0.2" and I compare it to qtversion, I don't get >sensible results, even though qtversion seems to be returning 5.0.2, or at >least something that looks like it. It's looking like there's a type >conversion problem or something. What am I doing wrong? > >Marcus I use the following handler for QuickTime version checking in my stacks: on checkForQuickTime constant cQTversionNeeded = "4.1" put qtVersion() into theQTvers set itemdelimiter to "." if item 1 to 2 of theQTvers < cQTversionNeeded then answer warning "This program needs QuickTime " & cQTversionNeeded & \ " or later show video clips." & return & return & \ "Quit this program or Continue for now without video clips?" \ with "Quit" or "Continue (no videos)" titled "Unable to Show Video Clips" if it is "Quit" then quit end if end if end checkForQuickTime I tend to check major.minor version numbers only since the third version level (the "2" in "5.0.2") is rarely necessary. Cheers Peter -- Peter Reid Reid-IT Limited, Loughborough, Leics., UK Tel: +44 (0)1509 268843 Fax: +44 (0)870 052 7576 E-mail: preid at reidit.co.uk Web: http://www.reidit.co.uk From sjoerdoptland at mac.com Mon Feb 18 08:40:01 2002 From: sjoerdoptland at mac.com (Sjoerd Op 't Land) Date: Mon Feb 18 08:40:01 2002 Subject: Scrollbar In-Reply-To: <007101c1b7fb$291e2400$05ebbc42@charter.net> Message-ID: Ken Ray wrote/ schreef: > The closest I can come to what you want is: > > set the style of sb 1 to "scale" > set the startValue of sb 1 to 1 > set the endValue of sb 1 to 3 > set the thumbSize of sb 1 to 1 > set the pageInc of sb 1 to 2 > set the lineInc of sb 1 to 1 -- this is ignored in scales though > > The scrollbar has this script: > > on scrollbarDrag > set the thumbPos of me to (the thumbpos of me) > end scrollbarDrag > > This sort of "snaps" to the proper thumbpositions, but it flickers as it's > doing so. I'll keep hunting for a better solution, but it would be great if > Rev had a "snapToPage" property (or equivalent) that would take the > flickering away. It flickers because you try to execute the handler continuously. A solution might be using the mouseUp handler: on scrollbarDrag put the thumbPos of me into field 1 end scrollbarDrag on mouseUp set the thumbpos of me to round(the thumbpos of me) end mouseUp It then will only snap when released, but it may be acceptable. > Ken Ray Regards, / Groeten, Sjoerd From francois.cuneo at cuk.ch Mon Feb 18 09:41:01 2002 From: francois.cuneo at cuk.ch (Fran=?ISO-8859-1?B?5w==?=ois Cuneo) Date: Mon Feb 18 09:41:01 2002 Subject: Discrete scrollbar settings In-Reply-To: Message-ID: >> >> on scrollbarDrag >> set the thumbPos of me to (the thumbpos of me) >> end scrollbarDrag >> >> This sort of "snaps" to the proper thumbpositions, but it flickers as it's >> doing so. I'll keep hunting for a better solution, but it would be great if >> Rev had a "snapToPage" property (or equivalent) that would take the >> flickering away. > > > As W. C. Fields would say: "Pardon my redundancy." > > Much simpler: > > local temp > > on scrollbarDrag > set startValue of me to 1 > set endvalue of me to 3 > put the thumbposition of me into temp > put round(temp) into temp > end scrollbarDrag > > on mouseUp > set the thumbposition of me to temp > end mouseUp Thank you! Fine! Friendly Fran?ois -------------------------------------------------------------------------- Fran?ois Cuneo Au Champ du Pr? 1353 Bofflens e-mail: mailto:francois.cuneo at cuk.ch Web Cuk New Technologies, programmes ?ducatifs pour Mac: http://www.cuk.ch Web CUK, humeurs et tests sur le mac: http://www.cuk.ch/articles T?l: ++41 (024) 441.17.81 Fax: ++41 (024) 441.17.05 From francois.cuneo at cuk.ch Mon Feb 18 09:42:01 2002 From: francois.cuneo at cuk.ch (Fran=?ISO-8859-1?B?5w==?=ois Cuneo) Date: Mon Feb 18 09:42:01 2002 Subject: Scrollbar In-Reply-To: Message-ID: > It flickers because you try to execute the handler continuously. A solution > might be using the mouseUp handler: > > on scrollbarDrag > put the thumbPos of me into field 1 > end scrollbarDrag > > on mouseUp > set the thumbpos of me to round(the thumbpos of me) > end mouseUp > > It then will only snap when released, but it may be acceptable. > >> Ken Ray Fine too! Thank you! -------------------------------------------------------------------------- Fran?ois Cuneo Au Champ du Pr? 1353 Bofflens e-mail: mailto:francois.cuneo at cuk.ch Web Cuk New Technologies, programmes ?ducatifs pour Mac: http://www.cuk.ch Web CUK, humeurs et tests sur le mac: http://www.cuk.ch/articles T?l: ++41 (024) 441.17.81 Fax: ++41 (024) 441.17.05 From iansummerfield at btconnect.com Mon Feb 18 09:48:01 2002 From: iansummerfield at btconnect.com (Ian Summerfield) Date: Mon Feb 18 09:48:01 2002 Subject: Painting problems Message-ID: It seems like Revolution hates small objects. If I use the line tool and draw a tiny vertical line (about 4 pixels long), Revolution changes it to a 120 x 120 pixel 45 degree line. I was also playing around creating tiny images, 4 x 14 pixels, I created 4 of them and pasted a graphic of the same size onto each - well I tried, but Revolution would paste the graphic only onto image 1 regardless of which was selected. Once I made the images 32x32 it was ok. I'm using OS X Rev 1.1.1b1. BTW: Has anyone and good ideas how I could replicate an unspecified amount of times a list of controls? I'd like to do the equivalent of a portal view in Filemaker, in fact I think RR should have portals as an enhancement, I wouldn't need Filemaker then. As an example, I want to make a column containing first name, lastname, and against each check boxes that can be changed showing martial status, etc. As you add a new record for each person another line appears for them with the same series of check-boxes against each. Actually this isn't what I'm doing, I'm really writing a thing to let me choose which applications are launched when, against each application chosen I'll have a timer plug type interface consisting of 96 4 state buttons to represent what to do at different times of the day! If I make the timer interface and group the controls, do I just dupe the group under script control for each application choose? If 5 apps are chosen are 500 odd buttons on one card going to slow revolution? If there a better way I should write the timer plug? Any ideas welcome. -i- From preid at reidit.co.uk Mon Feb 18 10:53:00 2002 From: preid at reidit.co.uk (Peter Reid) Date: Mon Feb 18 10:53:00 2002 Subject: Detecting Network Running Message-ID: I'm trying to figure out a method of checking whether the currently running standalone app developed in Rev is running from a local or network drive. I want to be able to licence my software separately for local vs network use. With Windows I can check whether the drive starts with a letter followed by ":" but this doesn't help if the user has "mapped" it to a drive letter first. With the Mac, I can't see how I check this at all. In both cases it would be legitimate for the user to have more than one drive/partition locally and be running off a drive/partition which is not the system or default drive/partition. Anyone got any suggestions for both Mac and Windows? Cheers Peter -- Peter Reid Reid-IT Limited, Loughborough, Leics., UK Tel: +44 (0)1509 268843 Fax: +44 (0)870 052 7576 E-mail: preid at reidit.co.uk Web: http://www.reidit.co.uk From katir at hindu.org Mon Feb 18 15:51:09 2002 From: katir at hindu.org (Sivakatirswami) Date: Mon Feb 18 15:51:09 2002 Subject: Hierarchical File/Directory Structure Code In-Reply-To: <004101c1b81e$234ea1d0$88b15bd1@dreamlanpc> Message-ID: on 2/17/02 3:46 PM, Shao Sean at shaosean at unitz.ca wrote: > i've actually started work on one that looks like the Mac OS X file browser > (the full look and everything).. Mac OS shouldn't be too hard, except for > the fact it has like twenty different views and ways of doing things, so > that could take a bit longer to code all the functionality.. Aloha, Sean: actually, any look and feel would do...there are just certain types that want it to "look" a certain way.. but...from a RAD/production tools point of view it doesn't matter, functionality is *really* what we need. Probably better to give you (and the list) a better view of exactly the context. We have decided (for now) not to put "parts" of web pages and then dynamically build pages with PHP or ASP.. cgi's on our sites... for lots of reasons. But still we need to be able to have a "database" kind of situation on the home server where source files are in a directory structure is an exact mirror of the web site. The concept would be that a field would have some kind of directory looking function, like a Mac Window...or even like the little Windows Path "map" where you could collapse or expand and select either the entire directory or sub folders... and then pass that path information to a variable... then use that as the parameter for a little engine that simply takes the files in those directories and concatenates footers and headers and write them out as HTML docs. Now there are other ways to tackle this...and the "paradigm" of a field that emulates a dynamic directory interface is only one direction to go in... for instance I could just install Rinaldi's getDir XCMD and return paths with colons, replace those with slashes... but this only works on a Mac... > lemme know if you still need this.. Hinduism Today Sivakatirswami Editor's Assistant/Production Manager katir at hindu.org www.HinduismToday.com, www.HimalayanAcademy.com, www.Gurudeva.org, www.hindu.org Read The Master Course Lesson of the Day at http://www.gurudeva.org/lesson.shtml From katir at hindu.org Mon Feb 18 16:05:01 2002 From: katir at hindu.org (Sivakatirswami) Date: Mon Feb 18 16:05:01 2002 Subject: Hierarchical File/Directory Structure Code In-Reply-To: <004101c1b81e$234ea1d0$88b15bd1@dreamlanpc> Message-ID: on 2/17/02 3:46 PM, Shao Sean at shaosean at unitz.ca wrote: > i've actually started work on one that looks like the Mac OS X file browser > (the full look and everything).. Mac OS shouldn't be too hard, except for > the fact it has like twenty different views and ways of doing things, so > that could take a bit longer to code all the functionality.. Aloha, Sean: actually, any look and feel would do...there are just certain types that want it to "look" a certain way.. but...from a RAD/production tools point of view it doesn't matter, functionality is *really* what we need. Probably better to give you (and the list) a better view of exactly the context. We have decided (for now) not to put "parts" of web pages and then dynamically build pages with PHP or ASP.. cgi's on our sites... for lots of reasons. But still we need to be able to have a "database" kind of situation on the home server where source files are in a directory structure is an exact mirror of the web site. The concept would be that a field would have some kind of directory looking function, like a Mac Window...or even like the little Windows Path "map" where you could collapse or expand and select either the entire directory or sub folders... and then pass that path information to a variable... then use that as the parameter for a little engine that simply takes the files in those directories and concatenates footers and headers and write them out as HTML docs. Now there are other ways to tackle this...and the "paradigm" of a field that emulates a dynamic directory interface is only one direction to go in... for instance I could just install Rinaldi's getDir XCMD and return paths with colons, replace those with slashes... but this only works on a Mac... > lemme know if you still need this.. Hinduism Today Sivakatirswami Editor's Assistant/Production Manager katir at hindu.org www.HinduismToday.com, www.HimalayanAcademy.com, www.Gurudeva.org, www.hindu.org Read The Master Course Lesson of the Day at http://www.gurudeva.org/lesson.shtml _______________________________________________ metacard mailing list metacard at lists.runrev.com http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/metacard From Roger.E.Eller at sealedair.com Mon Feb 18 19:09:01 2002 From: Roger.E.Eller at sealedair.com (Roger.E.Eller at sealedair.com) Date: Mon Feb 18 19:09:01 2002 Subject: Boxes, Grids, & Snap to Objects Message-ID: Hi, My latest programming adventure requires the following: 1 - A rectangle graphic that represents the boundery. 800 x 500 pixels in size. 2 - Several (3-8) smaller rectangles (or buttons) that must be moved using the browse tool. Various Sizes, but must snap to a grid or other objects. 3 - The smaller rectangles should MOVE if clicked near the top left edge, but are not allowed outside the large rectangle. 4 - The smaller rectangles can be RESIZED if clicked near the bottom right, but are not allowed outside the large rectangle. 5 - The smaller rectangles are not allowed to overlap each other. My script follows... I have achieved some of the requirements, but I would like some guidance from the experts (that's you). Thank you in advance for any suggestions. ~Roger Eller ---------------------------------- on mouseDown set the cursor to plus set the numberFormat to 0.0 set the itemDelimiter to "," put the Width of me into WidthOfBox put the Height of me into HeightOfBox -- Determine the section of me that was clicked if item 1 of the mouseloc <= (item 1 of the bottomRight of me)-((the width of me)/2) then grab me -- Move me put the rect of me into myNewRect -- Get the old size put item 1 of the rect of me into myLeft put item 2 of the rect of me into myTop put item 3 of the rect of me into myRight put item 4 of the rect of me into myBottom put the rect of graphic "theBigBox" into myBigBox put item 1 of the rect of graphic "theBigBox" into BigBoxLeft put item 2 of the rect of graphic "theBigBox" into BigBoxTop put item 3 of the rect of graphic "theBigBox" into BigBoxRight put item 4 of the rect of graphic "theBigBox" into BigBoxBottom if myLeft < (BigBoxLeft+5) then put BigBoxLeft into item 1 of myNewRect end if if myTop < (BigBoxTop+5) then put BigBoxTop into item 2 of myNewRect end if set the rect of me to myNewRect -- Set the new size else -- Change the Size of me put the rect of me into myNewRect -- Get the old size put round((item 1 of the mouseLoc)/10) into myLeft put round((item 2 of the mouseLoc)/10) into myTop put myLeft*10 into myLeft put myTop*10 into myTop put myLeft into item 3 of myNewRect put myTop into item 4 of myNewRect set the rect of me to myNewRect -- Set the new size end if end mouseDown on mouseStillDown mouseDown end mouseStillDown From matt.denton at limelight.com.au Tue Feb 19 03:22:01 2002 From: matt.denton at limelight.com.au (Matt Denton) Date: Tue Feb 19 03:22:01 2002 Subject: Missing hidden characters and htmlText In-Reply-To: <200202181703.MAA15363@www.runrev.com> Message-ID: <421EBA1C-2511-11D6-810A-0003930B4708@limelight.com.au> Hello List, I can't find a way to keep the 'hidden' character of a field that has the imageSource set for it. This problem occurs when using variables to manipulate the field. Here's my scenario: 01 set the imageSource of a character, say char 1 of the field. Char 1 still exists but image shown in its place; 02 copy out the htmlText of the field to a variable for manipulation/sorting; 03 set the htmlText of the field back after manipulation/sorting. Char 1 is gone. The hidden character disappears! I'm trying to use a custom property to restore a field (and the hidden character), plus the imageSource. I've tried setting 'the text' then 'the htmltext' of the field together, no luck. Sure I could perform all of the sorts/manipulation in the text field but I still wouldn't have a way to 'restore' back to the original default state (ie from a custom property holding the default field values). Any kind help would be appreciated, I don't think it can be done?? I suspect there MUST be another property that holds everything that I can copy out and manipulate, the htmlText junks the hidden character. I can also pass my code on if need be plus a test stack setup to show this issue. Cheers, M@ Matt Denton From iansummerfield at btconnect.com Tue Feb 19 04:21:01 2002 From: iansummerfield at btconnect.com (Ian Summerfield) Date: Tue Feb 19 04:21:01 2002 Subject: Boxes, Grids, & Snap to Objects In-Reply-To: Message-ID: I don't like the grab command, it seems to me program flow doesn't stop, i.e. Grab me Beep Will beep immediately even though you're still dragging the thing around the screen. This means you'll need to use a mouseup handler to do the new location stuff instead. I find it much better to hide the cursor, and set loc of the object needing dragging to the mouseloc, this is done in a "repeat while the mouse is down" loop and lets me do clever things, I can check if the mouseloc is within the bounds of another object, and if so hilite that object, etc. It's much more flexible. I can send you an example of a system I've just written to drag flags onto a scale representing the time, it's a bit like dragging tab stops onto a ruler, as you hit the ruler/scale the flags snap on and slide left/right, if you pull them too far out of the bounds it will break them free again leaving you to drag them all over the screen. You can also drag flags back off the scale to get rid of them. -i- On 19/2/02 12:06 am, "Roger.E.Eller at sealedair.com" scribed: > > Hi, > > My latest programming adventure requires the following: > > 1 - A rectangle graphic that represents the boundery. 800 x 500 > pixels in size. > > 2 - Several (3-8) smaller rectangles (or buttons) that must be moved > using the browse tool. Various Sizes, but must snap to a grid or other > objects. > > 3 - The smaller rectangles should MOVE if clicked near the top left > edge, but are not allowed outside the large rectangle. > > 4 - The smaller rectangles can be RESIZED if clicked near the bottom > right, but are not allowed outside the large rectangle. > > 5 - The smaller rectangles are not allowed to overlap each other. > > My script follows... I have achieved some of the requirements, but I would > like some guidance from the experts (that's you). > > Thank you in advance for any suggestions. > ~Roger Eller > > ---------------------------------- > > on mouseDown > set the cursor to plus > set the numberFormat to 0.0 > set the itemDelimiter to "," > put the Width of me into WidthOfBox > put the Height of me into HeightOfBox > > -- Determine the section of me that was clicked > if item 1 of the mouseloc <= (item 1 of the bottomRight of me)-((the > width of me)/2) then > > grab me -- Move me > > put the rect of me into myNewRect -- Get the old size > put item 1 of the rect of me into myLeft > put item 2 of the rect of me into myTop > put item 3 of the rect of me into myRight > put item 4 of the rect of me into myBottom > > put the rect of graphic "theBigBox" into myBigBox > put item 1 of the rect of graphic "theBigBox" into BigBoxLeft > put item 2 of the rect of graphic "theBigBox" into BigBoxTop > put item 3 of the rect of graphic "theBigBox" into BigBoxRight > put item 4 of the rect of graphic "theBigBox" into BigBoxBottom > > if myLeft < (BigBoxLeft+5) then > put BigBoxLeft into item 1 of myNewRect > end if > if myTop < (BigBoxTop+5) then > put BigBoxTop into item 2 of myNewRect > end if > > set the rect of me to myNewRect -- Set the new size > > else -- Change the Size of me > > put the rect of me into myNewRect -- Get the old size > > put round((item 1 of the mouseLoc)/10) into myLeft > put round((item 2 of the mouseLoc)/10) into myTop > > put myLeft*10 into myLeft > put myTop*10 into myTop > > put myLeft into item 3 of myNewRect > put myTop into item 4 of myNewRect > > set the rect of me to myNewRect -- Set the new size > end if > end mouseDown > > on mouseStillDown > mouseDown > end mouseStillDown > > > _______________________________________________ > use-revolution mailing list > use-revolution at lists.runrev.com > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution ---------------------------------- Ian Summerfield Macintosh Consultant - Hastings UK ICQ: 4378866 ---------------------------------- This E-mail is from Ian Summerfield's home system. The contents and any attachments to it include information that is private and confidential and should only be read by those persons to whom they are addressed. Ian accepts no liability for any loss or damage suffered by any person arising from the use of this e-mail. Ian does not accept any responsibility for viruses and it is your responsibility to check the email and attachments (if any). If you have received this e-mail in error, please destroy and delete the message from your computer. From francois.cuneo at cuk.ch Tue Feb 19 05:01:01 2002 From: francois.cuneo at cuk.ch (Fran=?ISO-8859-1?B?5w==?=ois Cuneo) Date: Tue Feb 19 05:01:01 2002 Subject: Review about Revolution In-Reply-To: <421EBA1C-2511-11D6-810A-0003930B4708@limelight.com.au> Message-ID: Hello everybody! I have written a review about Revolution. If you understand a little bit of French, you can read it here: http://www.cuk.ch/articles/tests Thank you! Bye Friendly Fran?ois -------------------------------------------------------------------------- Fran?ois Cuneo Au Champ du Pr? 1353 Bofflens e-mail: mailto:francois.cuneo at cuk.ch Web Cuk New Technologies, programmes ?ducatifs pour Mac: http://www.cuk.ch Web CUK, humeurs et tests sur le mac: http://www.cuk.ch/articles T?l: ++41 (024) 441.17.81 Fax: ++41 (024) 441.17.05 From kmajor at metascape.org Tue Feb 19 05:49:01 2002 From: kmajor at metascape.org (Klaus Major) Date: Tue Feb 19 05:49:01 2002 Subject: Boxes, Grids, & Snap to Objects In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Hi Ian, > I don't like the grab command, it seems to me program flow doesn't > stop, > i.e. > > Grab me > Beep > > Will beep immediately even though you're still dragging the thing > around the > screen. This means you'll need to use a mouseup handler to do the new > location stuff instead. > > I find it much better to hide the cursor, and set loc of the object > needing > dragging to the mouseloc, this is done in a "repeat while the mouse is > down" loop and lets me do clever things, I can check if the mouseloc is > within the bounds of another object, and if so hilite that object, etc. > It's much more flexible. > ... maybe you missed some of the previous posts, where experts (!) are advising to not poll the mouse-state. It is far more efficient to use the mousemove function. Like this one: local ok_to_drag on mousedown put true into ok_to_drag end mousedown ##set flag... on mouseup put false into ok_to_drag en mouseup ##unset flag on mousemove x,y ## this is the advantage of the mousemove funcion, ## the loch and locv of the mouse are being passed as ## parameters in this function... if ok_to_drag then ##... your stuff here... end if end mousemove Hope this helps... Regards Klaus Major kmajor at metascape.org From JohnRule at aol.com Tue Feb 19 06:26:00 2002 From: JohnRule at aol.com (JohnRule at aol.com) Date: Tue Feb 19 06:26:00 2002 Subject: Drawing tools in standalone Message-ID: <43.6ca227c.29a38f7d@aol.com> I cannot seem to use the drawing tools in a stand-alone, and I am wondering if this is at all possible. Since the tool palette is really part of Revolution, maybe this is not intended to be functional in a user stand-alone? I am simply trying to draw some bargraphs from my script (which works fine in my stack while in the editor), but fails in my stand-alone at the point where it selects any tools. Thanks, JR From kmajor at metascape.org Tue Feb 19 06:48:01 2002 From: kmajor at metascape.org (Klaus Major) Date: Tue Feb 19 06:48:01 2002 Subject: Drawing tools in standalone In-Reply-To: <43.6ca227c.29a38f7d@aol.com> Message-ID: <1FB31EE7-252E-11D6-B1AB-003065D52E8E@metascape.org> Hi John, > I cannot seem to use the drawing tools in a stand-alone, and I am > wondering > if this is at all possible. Since the tool palette is really part of > Revolution, maybe this is not intended to be functional in a user > stand-alone? I am simply trying to draw some bargraphs from my script > (which > works fine in my stack while in the editor), but fails in my > stand-alone at > the point where it selects any tools. > > Thanks, > JR yes, this is a bit tricky ;-) It is possible, but you have to consider this: It is only pssible to change the tool with the browse tool... ??? :-) The conclusion is to provide a stack that has the browse tool as a default tool, no matter what tool is "really" selected. So your "tools"-stack HAS to be a "palette" or a "modeless". It won't work without an extra "tools"-palette or modeless stack. I would prefer palette. (Do not forget to reset the tool when closing that palette ;-) on closestack choose browse tool end closestack Otherwise you are... ehmm.. lost... That's the secret ;-) Drop a line if you need furhter info... Regards from germany Klaus Major kmajor at metascape.org From preid at reidit.co.uk Tue Feb 19 08:19:01 2002 From: preid at reidit.co.uk (Peter Reid) Date: Tue Feb 19 08:19:01 2002 Subject: Opening Acrobat Files Message-ID: I'm trying to get my Rev app to open Acrobat Reader on both Win and Mac. In both cases I want it to open Acrobat reader if it's not already running, otherwise to use the currently running application (default behaviour for Mac apps, but not for Win apps). My questions are: 1) how do I open Acrobat Reader under Windows, only when necessary for a given PDF file? If I query the registry and then use the launch command, this will open a fresh copy of Acrobat Reader for every file I try to open I think, instead of re-using any currently open copy of the Reader! 2) how do I get the path to Acrobat Reader on the Mac into a Rev variable so I can use the "launch" command? (more generally, how do I get results back from an AppleScript script?) I have been using the Externals Collection but I'm hitting a brick wall with this, especially since it doesn't work under Mac OS X! I'm trying to find another way that avoids the need to use the Externals. Cheers Peter -- Peter Reid Reid-IT Limited, Loughborough, Leics., UK Tel: +44 (0)1509 268843 Fax: +44 (0)870 052 7576 E-mail: preid at reidit.co.uk Web: http://www.reidit.co.uk From rolfk at vetvir.unizh.ch Tue Feb 19 08:40:01 2002 From: rolfk at vetvir.unizh.ch (Rolf Kocherhans) Date: Tue Feb 19 08:40:01 2002 Subject: Change the Hotspot in Cursor image Message-ID: I imported a gif to be used as a custom cursor, but now I am not happy with the Hotspot position. How can I change it ? Any ideas ? Cheers Rolf From kmajor at metascape.org Tue Feb 19 08:47:00 2002 From: kmajor at metascape.org (Klaus Major) Date: Tue Feb 19 08:47:00 2002 Subject: Change the Hotspot in Cursor image In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Hallo Rolf, > I imported a gif to be used as a custom cursor, but now I am not happy > with the Hotspot > position. > > How can I change it ? > > Any ideas ? Yo :-) > > Cheers > Rolf In the property-palette -> image -> hot spot :-) Regards Klaus Major kmajor at metascape.org 8-) From kmajor at metascape.org Tue Feb 19 08:50:01 2002 From: kmajor at metascape.org (Klaus Major) Date: Tue Feb 19 08:50:01 2002 Subject: Opening Acrobat Files In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <34EE6CC4-253F-11D6-B1AB-003065D52E8E@metascape.org> Hi Peter, > I'm trying to get my Rev app to open Acrobat Reader on both Win and > Mac. In both cases I want it to open Acrobat reader if it's not > already running, otherwise to use the currently running application > (default behaviour for Mac apps, but not for Win apps). My questions > are: > > 1) how do I open Acrobat Reader under Windows, only when necessary for > a given PDF file? If I query the registry and then use the launch > command, this will open a fresh copy of Acrobat Reader for every file I > try to open I think, instead of re-using any currently open copy of the > Reader! Sorry, dunno... But this has been on the list some time ago. you could find it in the archives... > > 2) how do I get the path to Acrobat Reader on the Mac into a Rev > variable so I can use the "launch" command? (more generally, how do I > get results back from an AppleScript script?) > > I have been using the Externals Collection but I'm hitting a brick wall > with this, especially since it doesn't work under Mac OS X! I'm trying > to find another way that avoids the need to use the Externals. > > Cheers > > Peter > -- Peter Reid Did you check the new (!) and free externals for Mac (AND OS X) on the RR website. They do exactly what you are looking for... :-) Regards Klaus Major kmajor at metascape.org From preid at reidit.co.uk Tue Feb 19 09:52:01 2002 From: preid at reidit.co.uk (Peter Reid) Date: Tue Feb 19 09:52:01 2002 Subject: Opening Acrobat Files In-Reply-To: <34EE6CC4-253F-11D6-B1AB-003065D52E8E@metascape.org> References: <34EE6CC4-253F-11D6-B1AB-003065D52E8E@metascape.org> Message-ID: Hi Klaus Thanks for the feedback. >>1) how do I open Acrobat Reader under Windows, only when necessary >>for a given PDF file? If I query the registry and then use the >>launch command, this will open a fresh copy of Acrobat Reader for >>every file I try to open I think, instead of re-using any currently >>open copy of the Reader! > >Sorry, dunno... > >But this has been on the list some time ago. you could find it in >the archives... The list shows how to find the application but not how to open additional files within the currently running application! >> >>2) how do I get the path to Acrobat Reader on the Mac into a Rev >>variable so I can use the "launch" command? (more generally, how do >>I get results back from an AppleScript script?) > >Did you check the new (!) and free externals for Mac (AND OS X) on >the RR website. > >They do exactly what you are looking for... :-) Well, yes and no! The externals allow you to find the name of the application for use in a "launch" command but don't help with the problem of opening an additional PDF file once the Reader is open. So, using the Externals for the Mac and querying the registry for Win, I now have the following situations. With Windows: a) launch PDF file with Acrobat Reader, with Reader currently NOT running - opens Reader and displays PDF file b) launch PDF file with Acrobat Reader, with Reader currently running - opens fresh copy of Reader and displays PDF file - now have TWO copies of the Reader running! With Mac: a) launch PDF file with Acrobat Reader, with Reader currently NOT running - opens Reader and displays PDF file b) launch PDF file with Acrobat Reader, with Reader currently running - nothing happens, it won't open a new Reader (which is good), but also won't open 2nd PDF file either (which is bad)! The only solution I have is to "kill" any currently running Acrobat Reader and then allow a new one to open. However this is not very neat, slow (the user has to wait for program launch each time) and doesn't allow the user to have more than one PDF file open at a time! The old MetaCard Externals Collection worked just as I liked it for both Mac and Win, only opening the application if it wasn't already running, otherwise opening additional documents within the currently running application. One other comment/question about the Externals - how do I include BOTH Mac OS Classic and Mac OS X versions of the external functions for building standalone programs? Cheers Peter -- Peter Reid Reid-IT Limited, Loughborough, Leics., UK Tel: +44 (0)1509 268843 Fax: +44 (0)870 052 7576 E-mail: preid at reidit.co.uk Web: http://www.reidit.co.uk From benr_mc at cogapp.com Tue Feb 19 10:44:01 2002 From: benr_mc at cogapp.com (Ben Rubinstein) Date: Tue Feb 19 10:44:01 2002 Subject: Detecting Network Running In-Reply-To: Message-ID: on 18/2/02 3:50 PM, Peter Reid at preid at reidit.co.uk wrote: > I'm trying to figure out a method of checking whether the currently > running standalone app developed in Rev is running from a local or > network drive. I want to be able to licence my software separately > for local vs network use. > > ..snip... > > Anyone got any suggestions for both Mac and Windows? Not both, but one: on the Mac, you can use AppleScript to ask the Finder to inspect the "local volume" attribute, eg tell application "Finder" get the local volume of disk "Macintosh HD" end tell On Windows... no idea. Ben Rubinstein | Email: benr_mc at cogapp.com Cognitive Applications Ltd | Phone: +44 (0)1273-821600 http://www.cogapp.com | Fax : +44 (0)1273-728866 From iansummerfield at btconnect.com Tue Feb 19 11:05:01 2002 From: iansummerfield at btconnect.com (Ian Summerfield) Date: Tue Feb 19 11:05:01 2002 Subject: Opening Acrobat Files In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On 19/2/02 1:16 pm, "Peter Reid" scribed: > 2) how do I get the path to Acrobat Reader on the Mac into a Rev > variable so I can use the "launch" command? (more generally, how do I > get results back from an AppleScript script?) > > I have been using the Externals Collection but I'm hitting a brick > wall with this, especially since it doesn't work under Mac OS X! I'm > trying to find another way that avoids the need to use the Externals. To get the path, I don't know, more generally I'd like to know too how to get the path of a running application. But, assuming you solve that problem, "the result" will contain whatever you "return" in AppleScript. Firstly check you have AppleScript available: if "AppleScript" is not in the alternateLanguages then beep answer "Applescript needs to be installed for this program to function." quit end if on getprocesses do the applescript1 of this stack as AppleScript put the result into processlist -- now check to see if it contains whatever you want end getprocesses The applescript1 should be a property of the stack and it's contents will be: tell application "Finder" return name of every process end tell A tip on launching, KILL the process FIRST, it won't do any harm even if it's not running. Put "/volume/folder/appname" into thePath -- check your processes next using the applescript -- to see it isn't already running KILL quit process thePath -- clears the openProcesses, -- otherwise RR could return -- "process already running" on the launch because it didn't know something -- outside, like a user, had quit it launch thePath -- check the result for "error -nn" If you don't Kill quit first then don't be surprised if the launch command doesn't work every time. Trust me, this works under OS X and OS 9. From terry at discovery.nl Tue Feb 19 11:24:01 2002 From: terry at discovery.nl (Terry Vogelaar) Date: Tue Feb 19 11:24:01 2002 Subject: Wordwrapping & formattedWidth/Height Message-ID: This one is silly, but I still need to figure it out. A field has wordwrapping on (dontWrap is off). The width is set to a certain width. Then it is simple to get the formattedHeight. But now the other way around. I need to know what the width of a field must be to have a field with a certain height. Should I loop through every possible width, see what the formattedHeight is and stop the loop when the requested formattedHeight is found? Or is there a smarter way? FormattedWidth doesn't help much here, because it depends on the real width of the field. Terry From gcanyon at inspiredlogic.com Tue Feb 19 11:54:01 2002 From: gcanyon at inspiredlogic.com (Geoff Canyon) Date: Tue Feb 19 11:54:01 2002 Subject: Drawing tools in standalone In-Reply-To: <43.6ca227c.29a38f7d@aol.com> References: <43.6ca227c.29a38f7d@aol.com> Message-ID: At 6:22 AM -0500 2/19/02, JohnRule at aol.com wrote: >I cannot seem to use the drawing tools in a stand-alone, and I am wondering >if this is at all possible. Since the tool palette is really part of >Revolution, maybe this is not intended to be functional in a user >stand-alone? I am simply trying to draw some bargraphs from my script (which >works fine in my stack while in the editor), but fails in my stand-alone at >the point where it selects any tools. Have you considered using graphics (of style "rectangle")? It would allow you to set the fill, linewidth, etc. very easily. regards, Geoff From cowhead at ztv.ne.jp Tue Feb 19 12:36:01 2002 From: cowhead at ztv.ne.jp (cowhead) Date: Tue Feb 19 12:36:01 2002 Subject: Deselecting Line tool Message-ID: <3C728D05.FF913232@ztv.ne.jp> I had to do this in a metacard project in order for users to change colors "mid-draw" as it were. And I didn't want to have a separate "control" pallette. 1. First establish the rect (the zone) where you want all the drawing to take place. 2. Locate your buttons and controls outside of this rect 3. Draw button script: on mouseUp global zaCheckRes choose line tool send zaCheck to me in 500 milliseconds put the result into zaCheckRes end mouseUp on zaCheck global zaCheckRes if the mouseLoc is within the rect of w,x,y,z then choose line tool else choose browse tool end if send zaCheck to me in 500 milliseconds put the result into zaCheckRes end zaCheck 4. Stop draw button script: on mouseUp global zaCheckRes cancel zaCheckRes end mouseUp Of course, you can also change colors, line sizes and choose other tools this way. Best of luck, mark mitchell japan From k_major at osnabrueck.netsurf.de Tue Feb 19 14:55:01 2002 From: k_major at osnabrueck.netsurf.de (Klaus Major) Date: Tue Feb 19 14:55:01 2002 Subject: Deselecting Line tool In-Reply-To: <3C728D05.FF913232@ztv.ne.jp> Message-ID: <6D7C270E-2572-11D6-AA0F-000A27B49A96@osnabrueck.netsurf.de> Hi Mark, > ... > end zaCheck > > 4. Stop draw button script: > on mouseUp > global zaCheckRes > cancel zaCheckRes > end mouseUp > > Of course, you can also change colors, line sizes and choose other tools > this way. > > Best of luck, > > mark mitchell > japan wowwww, this is really cool :-D Simple and brilliant, works like a charm... Thanks a lot for sharing this highlight. Now i'm going to trash some palettes ;-) Regards Klaus Major k_major at osnabrueck.netsurf.de From preid at reidit.co.uk Tue Feb 19 16:09:01 2002 From: preid at reidit.co.uk (Peter Reid) Date: Tue Feb 19 16:09:01 2002 Subject: Detecting Network Running In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: > > I'm trying to figure out a method of checking whether the currently >> running standalone app developed in Rev is running from a local or >> network drive. I want to be able to licence my software separately > > for local vs network use. > > Anyone got any suggestions for both Mac and Windows? > >Not both, but one: on the Mac, you can use AppleScript to ask the Finder to >inspect the "local volume" attribute, eg > tell application "Finder" > get the local volume of disk "Macintosh HD" > end tell > >On Windows... no idea. > > Ben Rubinstein | Email: benr_mc at cogapp.com Thanks Ben - one down, only one to go! Cheers Peter -- Peter Reid Reid-IT Limited, Loughborough, Leics., UK Tel: +44 (0)1509 268843 Fax: +44 (0)870 052 7576 E-mail: preid at reidit.co.uk Web: http://www.reidit.co.uk From drvaughan55 at mac.com Tue Feb 19 17:15:01 2002 From: drvaughan55 at mac.com (David Vaughan) Date: Tue Feb 19 17:15:01 2002 Subject: Drawing tools in standalone In-Reply-To: <1FB31EE7-252E-11D6-B1AB-003065D52E8E@metascape.org> Message-ID: John Klaus has the way it should be done, with a palette, but Mike Mitchell (cowhead) today and myself on the 18th in response to Mike Brown published essentially identical scripts which allow you to choose any tool and then return to the browse tool when you wish. Our method is not best practice in that it polls the mouseLoc but at least it does so only twice a second (configurable in the Send) rather than continuously, and will thus do for a quick or one-off stack. regards David On Tuesday, February 19, 2002, at 10:45 , Klaus Major wrote: > Hi John, > >> I cannot seem to use the drawing tools in a stand-alone, and I am >> wondering >> if this is at all possible. Since the tool palette is really part of >> Revolution, maybe this is not intended to be functional in a user >> stand-alone? I am simply trying to draw some bargraphs from my script >> (which >> works fine in my stack while in the editor), but fails in my >> stand-alone at >> the point where it selects any tools. >> >> Thanks, >> JR > > yes, this is a bit tricky ;-) > > It is possible, but you have to consider this: > > It is only pssible to change the tool with the browse tool... > > ??? :-) > > The conclusion is to provide a stack that has the browse tool as a > default tool, > no matter what tool is "really" selected. > > So your "tools"-stack HAS to be a "palette" or a "modeless". > > It won't work without an extra "tools"-palette or modeless stack. > > I would prefer palette. > (Do not forget to reset the tool when closing that palette ;-) > on closestack > choose browse tool > end closestack > > Otherwise you are... ehmm.. lost... > > > That's the secret ;-) > > Drop a line if you need furhter info... > > > Regards from germany > > Klaus Major > kmajor at metascape.org > > _______________________________________________ > use-revolution mailing list > use-revolution at lists.runrev.com > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution > From JohnRule at aol.com Tue Feb 19 17:25:01 2002 From: JohnRule at aol.com (JohnRule at aol.com) Date: Tue Feb 19 17:25:01 2002 Subject: Drawing tools in standalone Message-ID: <37.230f7842.29a42a0b@aol.com> <<< > I cannot seem to use the drawing tools in a stand-alone... << Have you considered using graphics (of style "rectangle")? It would allow you to << set the fill, linewidth, etc. very easily. << regards, << Geoff Good idea...definitely a 'Think Different" solution! ;-) JR From iansummerfield at btconnect.com Tue Feb 19 17:34:01 2002 From: iansummerfield at btconnect.com (Ian Summerfield) Date: Tue Feb 19 17:34:01 2002 Subject: Will the script editing quirks be fixed? Message-ID: Am I the only one suffering from the problem of the auto completion of things like "on repeat" putting the "end repeat" before another line: Put 1 into x Put 2 into y If I type on repeat between the two: Put 1 into x On repeat Put 2 into y Revolution puts in: Put 1 into x On repeat End repeatput2 into y It's lost me ages trouble shooting, often I don't detect it did it, it's worse when it's the end statement for a handler, I get: On newproc End newprocon nexthandler Which now means nextHandler fails to exist! I worried me to read 1.1.1 seems close to release, I would have thought there are zillions of quirks like this to fix first! Should we have a few more beta's? I keep telling myself all will be fixed when it goes final so I should live with it. Will it be much more stable? I'm using the OS X release, really because it crashes too often and recovery is fast in X! -i- From drvaughan55 at mac.com Tue Feb 19 17:55:01 2002 From: drvaughan55 at mac.com (David Vaughan) Date: Tue Feb 19 17:55:01 2002 Subject: Review about Revolution In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <77700A58-258B-11D6-B1F7-000393598038@mac.com> Francois I understand a little bit of French and enjoyed your favourable review, with its fair comment on minor glitches and on the documentation issue, which has also been well aired in this forum. I do not entirely agree that it is hard to find good examples although it does take some digging and perhaps some experiments to find out how things really work. From my own experience there are clues in the documentation to things not clearly stated but these clues would be harder to find if you are reading it in English and not your native language. As a supporter of Revolution, I thank you for your contribution. regards David On Tuesday, February 19, 2002, at 08:59 , Fran?ois Cuneo wrote: > Hello everybody! > I have written a review about Revolution. > If you understand a little bit of French, you can read it here: > http://www.cuk.ch/articles/tests > Thank you! > Bye > Friendly > Fran?ois > -------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Fran?ois Cuneo > Au Champ du Pr? > 1353 Bofflens > > e-mail: mailto:francois.cuneo at cuk.ch > > Web Cuk New Technologies, programmes ?ducatifs pour Mac: > http://www.cuk.ch > Web CUK, humeurs et tests sur le mac: http://www.cuk.ch/articles > > T?l: ++41 (024) 441.17.81 > Fax: ++41 (024) 441.17.05 > > > > _______________________________________________ > use-revolution mailing list > use-revolution at lists.runrev.com > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution > From bodind at club-internet.fr Tue Feb 19 18:29:00 2002 From: bodind at club-internet.fr (Dominique Bodin) Date: Tue Feb 19 18:29:00 2002 Subject: Drawing tools in standalone In-Reply-To: <1FB31EE7-252E-11D6-B1AB-003065D52E8E@metascape.org> Message-ID: <1Y1ROHXVC7UR4YHG1XC9F0SREBOLA5.3c72df26@dominique> Hello, Just a litle question about the Rev 1.1.1 update: will it be free for the Rev 1.1 registred users ? Dominique Bodin bodind at club-internet.fr From bvlahos at jpl.nasa.gov Tue Feb 19 18:54:01 2002 From: bvlahos at jpl.nasa.gov (Bill Vlahos) Date: Tue Feb 19 18:54:01 2002 Subject: Drawing tools in standalone In-Reply-To: <1Y1ROHXVC7UR4YHG1XC9F0SREBOLA5.3c72df26@dominique> Message-ID: <953A99FC-2593-11D6-8614-003065E6E4BC@jpl.nasa.gov> Yes. I believe it even says so somewhere on their web page. Bill Vlahos On Tuesday, February 19, 2002, at 03:26 PM, Dominique Bodin wrote: > Hello, > > Just a litle question about the Rev 1.1.1 update: > will it be free for the Rev 1.1 registred users ? > > Dominique Bodin > bodind at club-internet.fr > > > _______________________________________________ > use-revolution mailing list > use-revolution at lists.runrev.com > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution From drvaughan55 at mac.com Tue Feb 19 20:07:01 2002 From: drvaughan55 at mac.com (David Vaughan) Date: Tue Feb 19 20:07:01 2002 Subject: Will the script editing quirks be fixed? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Ian Puzzling. I can replicate your problem only by positioning the cursor at the start of the second line (before the "P" in "Put 2 into y" in your example), in which case the behaviour is hardly surprising. If I position the cursor at the end of the prior line, after the "x" and press return and "on repeat" (which looks like your example and is what I ordinarily do for any new line) then behaviour is perfectly normal, placing the closure statement on a line before the next existing line. These seem reasonable behaviours, and since they happen about where you are typing I am a little surprised you do not notice it at the time. I am quite happy for the Rev people not to spend any time on this issue before finalising 1.1.1, which in beta form has proven more stable than the 1.1.0 release. regards David On Wednesday, February 20, 2002, at 09:30 , Ian Summerfield wrote: > Am I the only one suffering from the problem of the auto completion of > things like "on repeat" putting the "end repeat" before another line: > > Put 1 into x > Put 2 into y > > If I type on repeat between the two: > > Put 1 into x > On repeat > Put 2 into y > > Revolution puts in: > > Put 1 into x > On repeat > > End repeatput2 into y > > > It's lost me ages trouble shooting, often I don't detect it did it, > it's > worse when it's the end statement for a handler, I get: > > On newproc > > End newprocon nexthandler > > Which now means nextHandler fails to exist! > > I worried me to read 1.1.1 seems close to release, I would have thought > there are zillions of quirks like this to fix first! Should we have a > few > more beta's? I keep telling myself all will be fixed when it goes > final so > I should live with it. Will it be much more stable? I'm using the OS X > release, really because it crashes too often and recovery is fast in X! > > -i- > > _______________________________________________ > use-revolution mailing list > use-revolution at lists.runrev.com > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution > From drvaughan55 at mac.com Tue Feb 19 23:18:00 2002 From: drvaughan55 at mac.com (David Vaughan) Date: Tue Feb 19 23:18:00 2002 Subject: Boxes, Grids, & Snap to Objects In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <6DF18119-25B8-11D6-B1F7-000393598038@mac.com> Roger This is not comprehensive, in that I tackled only to the "else" statement, the drag, but I am sure you can have another go at move if need be. I recognise also that you have not dealt with overlapping yet, but revise what you have in the light of comments and try to extend the approach. You are welcome back for more help of course. Actual comments below. regards David On Tuesday, February 19, 2002, at 11:06 , Roger.E.Eller at sealedair.com wrote: > > Hi, > > My latest programming adventure requires the following: > > 1 - A rectangle graphic that represents the boundery. 800 x 500 > pixels in size. > > 2 - Several (3-8) smaller rectangles (or buttons) that must be > moved > using the browse tool. Various Sizes, but must snap to a grid or other > objects. > > 3 - The smaller rectangles should MOVE if clicked near the top left > edge, but are not allowed outside the large rectangle. > > 4 - The smaller rectangles can be RESIZED if clicked near the > bottom > right, but are not allowed outside the large rectangle. > > 5 - The smaller rectangles are not allowed to overlap each other. > > My script follows... I have achieved some of the requirements, but I > would > like some guidance from the experts (that's you). > > Thank you in advance for any suggestions. > ~Roger Eller > > ---------------------------------- > > on mouseDown > set the cursor to plus > set the numberFormat to 0.0 -- not sure why > set the itemDelimiter to "," -- It already is when you enter the script. Better to change it only when you need to. > put the Width of me into WidthOfBox > put the Height of me into HeightOfBox -- You do not use these variables again, but they have a use...see below. > > -- Determine the section of me that was clicked > if item 1 of the mouseloc <= (item 1 of the bottomRight of me)-((the > width of me)/2) then > > grab me -- Move me > > put the rect of me into myNewRect -- Get the old size -- Once you have newRect, it is very slightly quicker to use it rather than repeatedly getting the property, hence: put item q of myNewRect into myLeft -- etc > put item 1 of the rect of me into myLeft > put item 2 of the rect of me into myTop > put item 3 of the rect of me into myRight > put item 4 of the rect of me into myBottom -- but why bother, if you never use them again anyway? Just handle myNewRect and -- the box widths which you captured up the top. Read on. > -- The following can also be done by reference to the variable rather than repeated property gets. -- However, better to do it outside mouseDown (e.g. on openCard or a preOpen) since you do not -- indicate that it changes at any time, and this is being executed repeatedly on mouseStillDown. > put the rect of graphic "theBigBox" into myBigBox > put item 1 of the rect of graphic "theBigBox" into BigBoxLeft > put item 2 of the rect of graphic "theBigBox" into BigBoxTop > put item 3 of the rect of graphic "theBigBox" into BigBoxRight > put item 4 of the rect of graphic "theBigBox" into BigBoxBottom > > if myLeft < (BigBoxLeft+5) then > put BigBoxLeft into item 1 of myNewRect -- this and the corresponding next statement will change the size of the object because you are -- changing only the top and left. Set the top and left as you do but then set the right and bottom by -- adding WidthOfBox and HeightOfBox to items 1 and 2 of myNewRect to create items 3 and 4. > end if > if myTop < (BigBoxTop+5) then > put BigBoxTop into item 2 of myNewRect > end if > > set the rect of me to myNewRect -- Set the new size -- all yours for the next half... :-) > > else -- Change the Size of me > > put the rect of me into myNewRect -- Get the old size > > put round((item 1 of the mouseLoc)/10) into myLeft > put round((item 2 of the mouseLoc)/10) into myTop > > put myLeft*10 into myLeft > put myTop*10 into myTop > > put myLeft into item 3 of myNewRect > put myTop into item 4 of myNewRect > > set the rect of me to myNewRect -- Set the new size > end if > end mouseDown > > on mouseStillDown > mouseDown > end mouseStillDown > > > _______________________________________________ > use-revolution mailing list > use-revolution at lists.runrev.com > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution > From terry at discovery.nl Tue Feb 19 23:29:01 2002 From: terry at discovery.nl (Terry Vogelaar) Date: Tue Feb 19 23:29:01 2002 Subject: Will the script editing quirks be fixed? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: > Am I the only one suffering from the problem of the auto completion of > things like "on repeat" putting the "end repeat" before another line: > > Put 1 into x > Put 2 into y > > If I type on repeat between the two: > > Put 1 into x > On repeat > Put 2 into y > > Revolution puts in: > > Put 1 into x > On repeat > > End repeatput2 into y The "problem" is actually a handy feature which looks like a bug when you don't know what happens. If you type "repeat" and a return, the "end repeat" is automatically filled in, because the repeat has to end somewhere. The solution is very simple: don't position the cursor before line two, but after line one. Then you begin with a return and then you type "on repeat". BTW, don't you just mean "repeat"? Because when you write "on repeat", you are making a new handler called "repeat", while you probably just want to have something repeated... Terry From terry at discovery.nl Tue Feb 19 23:43:01 2002 From: terry at discovery.nl (Terry Vogelaar) Date: Tue Feb 19 23:43:01 2002 Subject: Drawing tools in standalone In-Reply-To: <953A99FC-2593-11D6-8614-003065E6E4BC@jpl.nasa.gov> Message-ID: > Just a litle question about the Rev 1.1.1 update: > will it be free for the Rev 1.1 registred users ? After registering, you will have ALL the updates free for a whole year. After that year, your license will work for the versions released during that year, but new versions will not work with your serial number. Terry From jeanne at runrev.com Wed Feb 20 02:46:01 2002 From: jeanne at runrev.com (Jeanne A. E. DeVoto) Date: Wed Feb 20 02:46:01 2002 Subject: Missing hidden characters and htmlText In-Reply-To: <421EBA1C-2511-11D6-810A-0003930B4708@limelight.com.au> References: <200202181703.MAA15363@www.runrev.com> Message-ID: At 12:18 AM -0800 2/19/2002, Matt Denton wrote: >I can't find a way to keep the 'hidden' character of a field that has >the imageSource set for it. I think you'll find this is fixed in 1.1.1b1. (The hidden character, in the htmlText, is replaced by a tag of the form .) -- Jeanne A. E. DeVoto ~ jeanne at runrev.com http://www.runrev.com/ Runtime Revolution Limited - Power to the Developer! From jeanne at runrev.com Wed Feb 20 02:46:30 2002 From: jeanne at runrev.com (Jeanne A. E. DeVoto) Date: Wed Feb 20 02:46:30 2002 Subject: Drawing tools in standalone In-Reply-To: References: <953A99FC-2593-11D6-8614-003065E6E4BC@jpl.nasa.gov> Message-ID: At 8:39 PM -0800 2/19/2002, Terry Vogelaar wrote: >> Just a litle question about the Rev 1.1.1 update: >> will it be free for the Rev 1.1 registred users ? > >After registering, you will have ALL the updates free for a whole year. Please note that this applies to the Professional edition, but not the Standard edition. In answer to the original question, yes: 1.1.1 will be a free upgrade to all 1.1 license holders. -- Jeanne A. E. DeVoto ~ jeanne at runrev.com http://www.runrev.com/ Runtime Revolution Limited - Power to the Developer! From pdel at noos.fr Wed Feb 20 05:28:01 2002 From: pdel at noos.fr (Pierre Delain) Date: Wed Feb 20 05:28:01 2002 Subject: Window menu Message-ID: I have copied from the revmenubar card the text and the script of most of the Revolution menus (Edit, Text and View), and they work fine on my stacks. But the Window menu do not work. The content of the menu (list of the current stacks) remains as it was when I copied the text of the window button. What do I have to change? Thanks for your help Pierre From pdel at noos.fr Wed Feb 20 05:57:01 2002 From: pdel at noos.fr (Pierre Delain) Date: Wed Feb 20 05:57:01 2002 Subject: controlkeydown Message-ID: I try to use the following handler to create a shortcut with the "T" : on controlkeydown "T" DoSomeThing end controlkeydown There is no reaction. What is wrong in my handler? Thanks P?erre From drvaughan55 at mac.com Wed Feb 20 06:10:01 2002 From: drvaughan55 at mac.com (David Vaughan) Date: Wed Feb 20 06:10:01 2002 Subject: controlkeydown In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <13466672-25F2-11D6-B1F7-000393598038@mac.com> Pierre Get rid of the quotes, thus: on controlKeyDown T DoSomething end controlKeyDown I know the Transcript Dictionary for controlKeyDown shows "keyname" but I got the clue from commandKeyDown where it just says keyname, without the quotes. Probably one for Jeanne's list, for consistency. regards David On Wednesday, February 20, 2002, at 09:29 , Pierre Delain wrote: > I try to use the following handler to create a shortcut with the "T" : > > on controlkeydown "T" > DoSomeThing > end controlkeydown > > There is no reaction. What is wrong in my handler? > > > Thanks > > P?erre > _______________________________________________ > use-revolution mailing list > use-revolution at lists.runrev.com > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution > From benr_mc at cogapp.com Wed Feb 20 07:07:00 2002 From: benr_mc at cogapp.com (Ben Rubinstein) Date: Wed Feb 20 07:07:00 2002 Subject: Opening Acrobat Files In-Reply-To: Message-ID: on 19/2/02 4:01 PM, Ian Summerfield at iansummerfield at btconnect.com wrote: > Firstly check you have AppleScript available: > [... snip ...] > > tell application "Finder" > return name of every process > end tell > [... snip ...] > > A tip on launching, KILL the process FIRST, it won't do any harm even if > it's not running. > [... snip ...] > If you're using AppleScript and you've checked that Acrobat is one of the processes, can you not simply use AppleScript to ask Acrobat to open the file, so that it doesn't quit and close any other PDFs it might have open? Ben Rubinstein | Email: benr_mc at cogapp.com Cognitive Applications Ltd | Phone: +44 (0)1273-821600 http://www.cogapp.com | Fax : +44 (0)1273-728866 From rpresender at mail.earthlink.net Wed Feb 20 09:04:01 2002 From: rpresender at mail.earthlink.net (Robert Presender) Date: Wed Feb 20 09:04:01 2002 Subject: answer/ask Message-ID: Hi, Will appreciated help with the following problems" Problem 1: The answer dialog box appears to be off screen (v1.1 and 1.1.1B1). Screen res 640x480 Mac OS 9.2.2,PB G3. Don't know how to reference 'answer dialog box' so that it can be used in the msg box to set the location say to 200,200. Ex: set the loc of '?' to 200,200. Is this a bug? Ask dialog box appears ok. Problem 2: The ask dialog box (using ask instead of answer) not only doesn't appear using the following script but the script only goes as far as 'go stack "a" and the stack is opened ok. If I eliminate ref to 'ask' lines, the script works ok. Is the script alright or is this a bug? on startUp if "x" is in fld "y" of stack "z" then go stack "a" wait 2 seconds ask "what is this?" if it is "OK" then set the visible of stack "a" to false wait 2 seconds set the visible of stack "a" to true end if end startUp TIA Regards ... Bob From jphurley at jps.net Wed Feb 20 09:53:00 2002 From: jphurley at jps.net (Jim Hurley) Date: Wed Feb 20 09:53:00 2002 Subject: Polling the mouse state In-Reply-To: <200202191351.IAA31083@www.runrev.com> References: <200202191351.IAA31083@www.runrev.com> Message-ID: > >Message: 7 >Date: Tue, 19 Feb 2002 11:46:23 +0100 >Subject: Re: Boxes, Grids, & Snap to Objects >From: Klaus Major >To: use-revolution at lists.runrev.com >Reply-To: use-revolution at lists.runrev.com > >Hi Ian, > >> I don't like the grab command, it seems to me program flow doesn't >> stop, >> i.e. >> >> Grab me >> Beep >> >> Will beep immediately even though you're still dragging the thing >> around the >> screen. This means you'll need to use a mouseup handler to do the new >> location stuff instead. >> >> I find it much better to hide the cursor, and set loc of the object >> needing >> dragging to the mouseloc, this is done in a "repeat while the mouse is >> down" loop and lets me do clever things, I can check if the mouseloc is >> within the bounds of another object, and if so hilite that object, etc. >> It's much more flexible. >> ... > >maybe you missed some of the previous posts, where experts (!) are >advising to >not poll the mouse-state. > >It is far more efficient to use the mousemove function. This issue of polling the mouse state continues to crop up. I have had to avoid the use of the old HyperCard standby: "repeat while the mouse is down" not so much because I worry about burdening the CPU but more importantly because there is a bug in the MC engine which causes it to fail quite regularly. (Very often the MC engine fails to recognize when the mouse the mouse state changes to up.) And Scott says that fixing this bug is not high on the priority list. I regularly use "repeat until the mouseClick" without the same problems I experience with the mouse function. My question is: Does the advice to stay away from polling the mouse extend to the mouseClick function as well? Scott has warned that the mouse() function may/will be discontinued. How about mouseClick()? Is it also in jeopardy? -- Jim Hurley From bvlahos at jpl.nasa.gov Wed Feb 20 11:11:00 2002 From: bvlahos at jpl.nasa.gov (Bill Vlahos) Date: Wed Feb 20 11:11:00 2002 Subject: Delete a selectedLine Message-ID: <65CD3C98-261B-11D6-A400-003065EC5590@jpl.nasa.gov> I have a field which contains a list of items I want to delete by double clicking. The following field script works fine except it leaves a blank line where the text was instead of completely eliminating the line. on mouseDoubleUp delete the selectedLine end mouseDoubleUp The results look like this: Bill Jim Mary Instead of: Bill Jim Mary Is this a bug or is there a workaroung? The hilited line looks non-standard to any other system I've seen. Is there a simple way to make the list have checks or blanks before the names? Bill Vlahos From raney at metacard.com Wed Feb 20 11:23:01 2002 From: raney at metacard.com (Scott Raney) Date: Wed Feb 20 11:23:01 2002 Subject: Deselecting Line tool In-Reply-To: <200202200749.CAA15779@www.runrev.com> Message-ID: On Wed, 20 Feb 2002 cowhead wrote: > I had to do this in a metacard project in order for users to change > colors "mid-draw" as it were. And I didn't want to have a separate > "control" pallette. > > 1. First establish the rect (the zone) where you want all the drawing > to take place. > 2. Locate your buttons and controls outside of this rect > 3. Draw button script: > > on mouseUp > global zaCheckRes > choose line tool > send zaCheck to me in 500 milliseconds > put the result into zaCheckRes > end mouseUp > > on zaCheck > global zaCheckRes > if the mouseLoc is within the rect of w,x,y,z then > choose line tool > else > choose browse tool > end if > send zaCheck to me in 500 milliseconds > put the result into zaCheckRes > end zaCheck > > 4. Stop draw button script: > on mouseUp > global zaCheckRes > cancel zaCheckRes > end mouseUp > > Of course, you can also change colors, line sizes and choose other tools > this way. There's a better way to do this, though, and as a bonus it avoids the dreaded polling function "the mouseLoc": just use the mouseMove message and its x,y parameters directly. This also avoids the half-second delay in your script which I would imagine would be a problem for fast workers. Note that at least in MetaCard these messages are grabbed by the development environment when you have something other than the browse tool chosen to keep your controls from responding to mouse clicks. You may need to run your application without the development environment to test. Regards, Scott > Best of luck, > > mark mitchell > japan ******************************************************** Scott Raney raney at metacard.com http://www.metacard.com MetaCard: You know, there's an easier way to do that... From kray at sonsothunder.com Wed Feb 20 11:35:01 2002 From: kray at sonsothunder.com (Ken Ray) Date: Wed Feb 20 11:35:01 2002 Subject: Delete a selectedLine References: <65CD3C98-261B-11D6-A400-003065EC5590@jpl.nasa.gov> Message-ID: <000901c1ba2b$ff6eb510$6700a8c0@mckinley.dom> Bill, This probably is a bug. You can work around it with: on mouseDoubleUp do "delete" && the selectedLine end mouseDoubleUp Ken Ray Sons of Thunder Software Email: kray at sonsothunder.com Web site: http://www.sonsothunder.com/ ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bill Vlahos" To: Sent: Wednesday, February 20, 2002 10:03 AM Subject: Delete a selectedLine > I have a field which contains a list of items I want to delete by double > clicking. > The following field script works fine except it leaves a blank line > where the text was instead of completely eliminating the line. > > on mouseDoubleUp > delete the selectedLine > end mouseDoubleUp > > The results look like this: > > Bill > Jim > > Mary > > Instead of: > > Bill > Jim > Mary > > Is this a bug or is there a workaroung? > > The hilited line looks non-standard to any other system I've seen. Is > there a simple way to make the list have checks or blanks before the > names? > > Bill Vlahos > > _______________________________________________ > use-revolution mailing list > use-revolution at lists.runrev.com > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution > From bvlahos at jpl.nasa.gov Wed Feb 20 11:44:01 2002 From: bvlahos at jpl.nasa.gov (Bill Vlahos) Date: Wed Feb 20 11:44:01 2002 Subject: Delete a selectedLine In-Reply-To: <000901c1ba2b$ff6eb510$6700a8c0@mckinley.dom> Message-ID: Ken, Perfect. That works great. Thank you. Bill On Wednesday, February 20, 2002, at 08:31 AM, Ken Ray wrote: > Bill, > > This probably is a bug. You can work around it with: > > on mouseDoubleUp > do "delete" && the selectedLine > end mouseDoubleUp > > Ken Ray > Sons of Thunder Software > Email: kray at sonsothunder.com > Web site: http://www.sonsothunder.com/ > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Bill Vlahos" > To: > Sent: Wednesday, February 20, 2002 10:03 AM > Subject: Delete a selectedLine > > >> I have a field which contains a list of items I want to delete by >> double >> clicking. >> The following field script works fine except it leaves a blank line >> where the text was instead of completely eliminating the line. >> >> on mouseDoubleUp >> delete the selectedLine >> end mouseDoubleUp >> >> The results look like this: >> >> Bill >> Jim >> >> Mary >> >> Instead of: >> >> Bill >> Jim >> Mary >> >> Is this a bug or is there a workaroung? >> >> The hilited line looks non-standard to any other system I've seen. Is >> there a simple way to make the list have checks or blanks before the >> names? >> >> Bill Vlahos >> >> _______________________________________________ >> use-revolution mailing list >> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution >> > > _______________________________________________ > use-revolution mailing list > use-revolution at lists.runrev.com > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution From rcozens at pon.net Wed Feb 20 12:12:00 2002 From: rcozens at pon.net (Rob Cozens) Date: Wed Feb 20 12:12:00 2002 Subject: controlkeydown In-Reply-To: Message-ID: >I try to use the following handler to create a shortcut with the "T" : > >on controlkeydown "T" > DoSomeThing >end controlkeydown > >There is no reaction. What is wrong in my handler? Salut Pierre! Try this: on controlKeyDown zaKey if zaKey is "T" then doSomething else pass controlKeyDown end controlKeyDown Rob Cozens CCW, Serendipity Software Company "And I, which was two fooles, do so grow three; Who are a little wise, the best fooles bee." from "The Triple Foole" by John Donne (1572-1631) From raney at metacard.com Wed Feb 20 12:49:00 2002 From: raney at metacard.com (Scott Raney) Date: Wed Feb 20 12:49:00 2002 Subject: Boxes, Grids, & Snap to Objects In-Reply-To: <200202201706.MAA25677@www.runrev.com> Message-ID: On Tue, 19 Feb 2002 Klaus Major wrote: > I regularly use "repeat until the mouseClick" without the same > problems I experience with the mouse function. My question is: Does > the advice to stay away from polling the mouse extend to the > mouseClick function as well? Scott has warned that the mouse() > function may/will be discontinued. How about mouseClick()? Is it also > in jeopardy? Yes. The full list of functions to avoid because they are deprecated is: the mouse the mouseClick the mouseH the mouseV the mouseLoc the optionKey the commandKey the controlKey And the very worst thing to do with any of these is "repeat until ", which will condemn you to the fires of eternal damnation in multiuser hell ;-) The last 3 can be safely acquired with "the keysDown", but be careful to not sit in a repeat loop calling that or you may hang your app or at the very least have the gods of multiuser development strike you down. And while we're on the subject of bad technique that will cause you grief at some point, also avoid using the following messages: mouseStillDown mouseWithin idle That's it. Not a long list, and in all cases it's very easy (I would even in most cases say trivial) to do it the right way. A small price to pay for shrugging off the last of the circa 1984 single-user single-tasking design of MacOS and HyperCard. Regards, Scott > -- > Jim Hurley ******************************************************** Scott Raney raney at metacard.com http://www.metacard.com MetaCard: You know, there's an easier way to do that... From gcanyon at inspiredlogic.com Wed Feb 20 14:26:01 2002 From: gcanyon at inspiredlogic.com (Geoff Canyon) Date: Wed Feb 20 14:26:01 2002 Subject: Boxes, Grids, & Snap to Objects In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: At 10:47 AM -0700 2/20/02, Scott Raney wrote: >And the very worst thing to do with any of these is "repeat until >", which will condemn you to the fires of eternal damnation >in multiuser hell ;-) I assume the same warning applies to: wait until (the optionKey is "down"|the mouse is "down"|etc.) Is that correct? Also, can you elaborate a bit on what you mean by "multiuser hell?" Is there something specific about a multi-user system that contraindicates these functions and messages such as mouseWithin and idle? Just looking to get edjumacated. I've found it to be a useful debugging tool to take an existing script and insert something like: put somethingUsefulToExamine wait until the optionKey is "down" Doing so allows me to quickly check a value deep in a repeat loop, something the debugger is less suited to because of its impact on script execution speed. But I've also found circumstances where, as you described, repeated polling the optionKey seemed to cause a problem. regards, Geoff From rcozens at pon.net Wed Feb 20 14:37:01 2002 From: rcozens at pon.net (Rob Cozens) Date: Wed Feb 20 14:37:01 2002 Subject: controlkeydown In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: >>I try to use the following handler to create a shortcut with the "T" : >> >>on controlkeydown "T" >> DoSomeThing >>end controlkeydown >> >>There is no reaction. What is wrong in my handler? Moi:> >Salut Pierre! > >Try this: > > on controlKeyDown zaKey > if zaKey is "T" then doSomething else pass controlKeyDown > end controlKeyDown Pierre, et al: While my example will work for the specific key, "T", the preferred form for generalized control would probably be some variation on a switch. I have yet to use this structure, so forgive me (and let me know) if my syntax is not correct: on controKeyDown zaKey switch zaKey case "T" doSomething case "U" deSomethingElse pass controlKeyDown case "V" beep -- block ctrl-V with audio warning case "W" doYetSomethingElse default pass controlKeyDown end switch end controlKeyDown Note: The second line in case U assumes a handler higher in the message hierarchy must also act on the same keystroke Rob Cozens CCW, Serendipity Software Company "And I, which was two fooles, do so grow three; Who are a little wise, the best fooles bee." from "The Triple Foole" by John Donne (1572-1631) From sarahr at genesearch.com.au Wed Feb 20 17:26:01 2002 From: sarahr at genesearch.com.au (Sarah Reichelt) Date: Wed Feb 20 17:26:01 2002 Subject: answer/ask In-Reply-To: Message-ID: > Problem 1: > The answer dialog box appears to be off screen (v1.1 and 1.1.1B1). Screen res > 640x480 Mac OS 9.2.2,PB G3. Don't know how to reference 'answer dialog box' > so that it can be used in the msg box to set the location say to 200,200. Ex: > set the loc of '?' to 200,200. Is this a bug? Ask dialog box appears ok. You can read the loc using put the loc of stack "Answer Dialog" but unlike in HyperCard, it doesn't seem possible to change it. The script gives no error but setting the loc doesn't stick. The following script moves the dialog, but as soon as the answer command executes, the window leaps back to the middle of the screen. on mouseUp go stack "Answer Dialog" set the loc of window "Answer Dialog" to "250,200" wait 30 ticks -- so you can see what happens answer "Help" end mouseUp > > Problem 2: > The ask dialog box (using ask instead of answer) not only doesn't appear using > the following script but the script only goes as far as 'go stack "a" and the > stack is opened ok. If I eliminate ref to 'ask' lines, the script works ok. > Is the script alright or is this a bug? > on startUp > if "x" is in fld "y" of stack "z" then > go stack "a" > wait 2 seconds > ask "what is this?" > if it is "OK" then set the visible of stack "a" to false > wait 2 seconds > set the visible of stack "a" to true > end if > end startUp This worked OK for me, but when using an ask dialog, 'it' refers to whatever you typed in the field, not to the button you clicked. Just clicking 'OK', without entering any data leaves the stack visible, Type in 'OK' and then click the 'OK' button and the stack disappears for 2 seconds. Cheers, Sarah From preid at reidit.co.uk Wed Feb 20 17:37:01 2002 From: preid at reidit.co.uk (Peter Reid) Date: Wed Feb 20 17:37:01 2002 Subject: Rev Externals Message-ID: I've just downloaded the current Mac OS Classic and Mac OS X externals from the rev web site and they provide a small number of useful extensions. However, I can't see how I use a single Rev stack and build standalones for BOTH Mac OS Classic and Mac OS X? You seem to have to import the externals into your stack, but you can only do this for the platform Rev is running on at the time. If you open a Rev stack with externals for the other OS, then Rev crashes out. I don't want to have to maintain two separate copies of the stack - one for Mac OS Classic and one for Mac OS X, but it seems I have to?! I can't see any way of building for both at the same time. Anyone done this? Cheers Peter -- Peter Reid Reid-IT Limited, Loughborough, Leics., UK Tel: +44 (0)1509 268843 Fax: +44 (0)870 052 7576 E-mail: preid at reidit.co.uk Web: http://www.reidit.co.uk From preid at reidit.co.uk Wed Feb 20 18:05:01 2002 From: preid at reidit.co.uk (Peter Reid) Date: Wed Feb 20 18:05:01 2002 Subject: Problem with Launch Command Message-ID: I'm trying to open Acrobat files from my stack developed using Rev 1.1.1B1 on a Mac. If I open Acrobat Reader outside of my stack and then get my stack to open a series of Acrobat files using the "launch xxx.pdf with gAcroReader" command, then everything works fine; each file opens as a new window inside the currently running Acrobat Reader. However, if the reader is not running initially, then opening the first Acrobat file within my stack by using the "launch" command causes it to refuse to open any more Acrobat files until the original Reader is "killed" and then a new invocation is run using the next "launch" command. This is NOT what I want as it means the user waiting for the Acrobat Reader to be "killed" and then relaunched for each document. Also, it means the user can't have more than one Acrobat document open at the same time. Any suggestions as to how I overcome this problem? Cheers Peter -- Peter Reid Reid-IT Limited, Loughborough, Leics., UK Tel: +44 (0)1509 268843 Fax: +44 (0)870 052 7576 E-mail: preid at reidit.co.uk Web: http://www.reidit.co.uk From pdel at noos.fr Wed Feb 20 19:32:01 2002 From: pdel at noos.fr (Pierre Delain) Date: Wed Feb 20 19:32:01 2002 Subject: controlkeydown In-Reply-To: <200202201707.MAA25719@www.runrev.com> Message-ID: Sorry but when I use controlkeydown T (without the quotes, as you say), I get a result, but the result is the same whatever the key. I if press ctrl F or ctrl G, for example, the result is exactly the same as ctrl T!! So the question remains : how to use controlkeydown to get a different result for ctrl T or ctrl F? Pierre > > Pierre > > Get rid of the quotes, thus: > on controlKeyDown T > DoSomething > end controlKeyDown > > I know the Transcript Dictionary for controlKeyDown shows "keyname" but > I got the clue from commandKeyDown where it just says keyname, without > the quotes. Probably one for Jeanne's list, for consistency. > > regards > David > > On Wednesday, February 20, 2002, at 09:29 , Pierre Delain wrote: > >> I try to use the following handler to create a shortcut with the "T" : >> >> on controlkeydown "T" >> DoSomeThing >> end controlkeydown >> >> There is no reaction. What is wrong in my handler? >> >> >> Thanks >> >> P?erre >> _______________________________________________ >> use-revolution mailing list >> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution >> > From scott at tactilemedia.com Wed Feb 20 19:41:01 2002 From: scott at tactilemedia.com (Scott Rossi) Date: Wed Feb 20 19:41:01 2002 Subject: controlkeydown In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <4D109118-2663-11D6-8106-0003934902A2@tactilemedia.com> On Wednesday, February 20, 2002, at 04:30 PM, Pierre Delain wrote: > Sorry but when I use controlkeydown T (without the quotes, as you > say), I > get a result, but the result is the same whatever the key. I if press > ctrl F > or ctrl G, for example, the result is exactly the same as ctrl T!! > So the question remains : how to use controlkeydown to get a different > result for ctrl T or ctrl F? The following works for me: on controlKeyDown K if K = "T" then doMyTstuff if K = "F" then doMyFstuff end controlKeyDown Regards, Scott Rossi Creative Director, Tactile Media scott at tactilemedia.com http://www.tactilemedia.com From sarahr at genesearch.com.au Wed Feb 20 19:50:01 2002 From: sarahr at genesearch.com.au (Sarah Reichelt) Date: Wed Feb 20 19:50:01 2002 Subject: controlkeydown In-Reply-To: Message-ID: As I understand it, when you use on controlKeyDown T you are using T as a variable name which will contain whatever key you have actually pressed. You then need to check the value of your variable and see it it matches any of the keys you want to respond to. e.g. on controlKeyDown pKey if pKey = "T" then -- do T stuff else if pKey = "F" then -- do F stuff else pass controlKeyDown -- allow any other keys to function normally end if end controlKeyDown As others have suggested, if you want to check for lots of keys, a switch will be more efficient. Cheers, Sarah > Sorry but when I use controlkeydown T (without the quotes, as you say), I > get a result, but the result is the same whatever the key. I if press ctrl F > or ctrl G, for example, the result is exactly the same as ctrl T!! > So the question remains : how to use controlkeydown to get a different > result for ctrl T or ctrl F? > > Pierre > >> >> Pierre >> >> Get rid of the quotes, thus: >> on controlKeyDown T >> DoSomething >> end controlKeyDown >> >> I know the Transcript Dictionary for controlKeyDown shows "keyname" but >> I got the clue from commandKeyDown where it just says keyname, without >> the quotes. Probably one for Jeanne's list, for consistency. >> >> regards >> David >> >> On Wednesday, February 20, 2002, at 09:29 , Pierre Delain wrote: >> >>> I try to use the following handler to create a shortcut with the "T" : >>> >>> on controlkeydown "T" >>> DoSomeThing >>> end controlkeydown >>> >>> There is no reaction. What is wrong in my handler? >>> >>> >>> Thanks >>> >>> P?erre >>> _______________________________________________ >>> use-revolution mailing list >>> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com >>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution >>> >> > > _______________________________________________ > use-revolution mailing list > use-revolution at lists.runrev.com > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution > From rcozens at pon.net Wed Feb 20 19:56:01 2002 From: rcozens at pon.net (Rob Cozens) Date: Wed Feb 20 19:56:01 2002 Subject: Rev Externals In-Reply-To: Message-ID: >I >don't want to have to maintain two separate copies of the stack - one >for Mac OS Classic and one for Mac OS X, but it seems I have to?! I >can't see any way of building for both at the same time. Hi Peter, Are you up for a solution that requires three stacks? If so: 1. Leave you main stack untouched, except for a preOpen handler I'll describe in a moment. 2. Create a minimal stack, eg: "Classic Libraries", and place the classic externals in its resource fork. 3. Create a minimal stack, eg: "OSX Libraries", and place the OS X externals in its resource fork. 4. In the preOpen handler for your original stack, determine the version of the OS and start using stack "Classic Libraries" or "OSX Libraries" as appropriate. BTW, in all the years "start using" has been around I don't think anyone has fully explored how it can be used to change a stack's operation, look, and/or environment on-the-fly. The potential power of a simple "start using" statement is almost unlimited. Rob Cozens CCW, Serendipity Software Company "And I, which was two fooles, do so grow three; Who are a little wise, the best fooles bee." from "The Triple Foole" by John Donne (1572-1631) From rcozens at pon.net Wed Feb 20 20:25:00 2002 From: rcozens at pon.net (Rob Cozens) Date: Wed Feb 20 20:25:00 2002 Subject: controlkeydown In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: >The following works for me: > >on controlKeyDown K > if K = "T" then doMyTstuff > if K = "F" then doMyFstuff >end controlKeyDown One note, Scott: Unless your handler passes controlKeyDown for those values of K for which it has no instructions, it effectively disables any controlKeyDown handlers in other objects further up the message hierarchy. Rob Cozens CCW, Serendipity Software Company "And I, which was two fooles, do so grow three; Who are a little wise, the best fooles bee." from "The Triple Foole" by John Donne (1572-1631) From tsimmons at employmentlawadvisors.com Wed Feb 20 23:19:01 2002 From: tsimmons at employmentlawadvisors.com (William T. Simmons) Date: Wed Feb 20 23:19:01 2002 Subject: Problem with Launch Command References: Message-ID: <00f701c1ba8e$6a97f330$0000a398@sndmgr122> Peter, I haven't had time to test this, but just to give you a possible idea to use, try adding appropriate scripts to a substack and a main stack to do the following: 1) open Acrobat Reader from the substack (perhaps a splash screen stack), 2) open your main stack, 3) close the substack, and then 4) use launch commands from the main stack to open multiple PDFs within the existing instance of Acrobat Reader. It seems to me that using the substack in that way would be the equivalent of opening the reader outside of the stack from which you're going to be launching the multiple PDFs. I'm sure you'd have to close the substack first in order to achieve that effect. I'd be interested in hearing whether that route works for you. HTH, Tommy Simmons Employment Law Advisory Network www.employmentlawadvisors.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "Peter Reid" Sent: Wednesday, February 20, 2002 5:02 PM Subject: Problem with Launch Command > I'm trying to open Acrobat files from my stack developed using Rev > 1.1.1B1 on a Mac. > > If I open Acrobat Reader outside of my stack and then get my stack to > open a series of Acrobat files using the "launch xxx.pdf with > gAcroReader" command, then everything works fine; each file opens as > a new window inside the currently running Acrobat Reader. However, > if the reader is not running initially, then opening the first > Acrobat file within my stack by using the "launch" command causes it > to refuse to open any more Acrobat files until the original Reader is > "killed" and then a new invocation is run using the next "launch" > command. > > This is NOT what I want as it means the user waiting for the Acrobat > Reader to be "killed" and then relaunched for each document. Also, > it means the user can't have more than one Acrobat document open at > the same time. > > Any suggestions as to how I overcome this problem? > > Cheers > > Peter > -- > Peter Reid > Reid-IT Limited, Loughborough, Leics., UK > Tel: +44 (0)1509 268843 Fax: +44 (0)870 052 7576 > E-mail: preid at reidit.co.uk > Web: http://www.reidit.co.uk From iansummerfield at btconnect.com Wed Feb 20 23:42:01 2002 From: iansummerfield at btconnect.com (Ian Summerfield) Date: Wed Feb 20 23:42:01 2002 Subject: Polling the mouse state In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On 20/2/02 2:50 pm, "Jim Hurley" scribed: > Hi Ian, >> >>> I don't like the grab command, it seems to me program flow doesn't >>> stop, >>> i.e. >> >> maybe you missed some of the previous posts, where experts (!) are >> advising to >> not poll the mouse-state. >> >> It is far more efficient to use the mousemove function. Using the mousemove is no good. I want to suspect all the messages from happening while I'm dragging a pin around on my timer plug. With mousemove I'm effectively dropping back to an "idle" state between each call, I need to stay in the handler, to do that I'm back to checking myself whether the mouse is still down or not. Try this as an example, call beeper from the message box to get the beeps going, then the challenge is to make the drag work but suspect the beeps, however, just killing the event is no answer, my program might have 30-40 different events pending and killing them all is out of the question. Put in card script, and have a button called "drag": on mousedown global dragging put the short name of the target = "drag" into dragging end mousedown on mousemove x,y global dragging put x & "," & y into myPointIs if xyz then set the loc of the target to myPointIs -- I have code here to check whether the object has intersected other -- things, if so different drag handlers take over, so using the -- drag command isn't on end mousemove on mouseup global dragging put false into dragging end mouseup on beeper beep send beeper to this card in 10 secs end beeper And all hell is let loose if a mouseup event is lost, as can happen if you switch out of revolution with the mouse still down. From pixelbird at interisland.net Wed Feb 20 23:46:00 2002 From: pixelbird at interisland.net (Ken Norris (dialup)) Date: Wed Feb 20 23:46:00 2002 Subject: Polling the mouse state In-Reply-To: Message-ID: on 2/20/02 6:50 AM, Jim Hurley at jphurley at jps.net wrote: > This issue of polling the mouse state continues to crop up. I have > had to avoid the use of the old HyperCard standby: > > "repeat while the mouse is down" ---------- I love "repeat while the mouse is down" because it allows me to do a bunch of mouseDown stuff, then a bunch of mouseUp stuff when the repeat ends, all in one handler. I'm working on an HC stack right now that uses it. Never had a problem in HC, except with the occasional bonk in an idle handler, but NEVER in a repeat loop. Does 'grab' and 'mousemove' really have potential response speed problems in RR/MC? I have some HC stacks I want to convert where a 'hunting' button is tied to the cursor. This ability is key to the stack's function, no good without it. Best regards, Ken N. From pixelbird at interisland.net Thu Feb 21 00:04:01 2002 From: pixelbird at interisland.net (Ken Norris (dialup)) Date: Thu Feb 21 00:04:01 2002 Subject: Will the script editing quirks be fixed? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: on 2/19/02 8:25 PM, Terry Vogelaar at terry at discovery.nl wrote: > BTW, don't you just mean "repeat"? Because when you write "on repeat", you > are making a new handler called "repeat", while you probably just want to > have something repeated... ---------- I agree, and even if you do want a special handler named 'repeat' it's very bad practice to use keywords to do it. If that's what you really want, call it 'theRepeat'. Best regards, Ken N. From iansummerfield at btconnect.com Thu Feb 21 00:05:00 2002 From: iansummerfield at btconnect.com (Ian Summerfield) Date: Thu Feb 21 00:05:00 2002 Subject: answer/ask In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On 20/2/02 2:00 pm, "Robert Presender" scribed: > Problem 2: > The ask dialog box (using ask instead of answer) not only doesn't appear using > the following script but the script only goes as far as 'go stack "a" and the > stack is opened ok. If I eliminate ref to 'ask' lines, the script works ok. > Is the script alright or is this a bug? > on startUp > if "x" is in fld "y" of stack "z" then > go stack "a" > wait 2 seconds > ask "what is this?" > if it is "OK" then set the visible of stack "a" to false > wait 2 seconds > set the visible of stack "a" to true > end if > end startUp Maybe stack "a" has a startup/openstack/opencard/etc. handler that calls "exit to top" therefore aborting the scripts? Try setting lockmessages to true before doing the go stack "a" From drvaughan55 at mac.com Thu Feb 21 00:18:00 2002 From: drvaughan55 at mac.com (David Vaughan) Date: Thu Feb 21 00:18:00 2002 Subject: controlkeydown In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Sorry, Pierre, I was too short. T is a variable in this context. You have to test for the actual value you want. A Switch statement, as already published by others, is a more general solution to capturing any key of interest and passing on those you don't care about. regards David On Thursday, February 21, 2002, at 11:30 , Pierre Delain wrote: > Sorry but when I use controlkeydown T (without the quotes, as you > say), I > get a result, but the result is the same whatever the key. I if press > ctrl F > or ctrl G, for example, the result is exactly the same as ctrl T!! > So the question remains : how to use controlkeydown to get a different > result for ctrl T or ctrl F? > > Pierre > >> >> Pierre >> >> Get rid of the quotes, thus: >> on controlKeyDown T >> DoSomething >> end controlKeyDown >> >> I know the Transcript Dictionary for controlKeyDown shows "keyname" but >> I got the clue from commandKeyDown where it just says keyname, without >> the quotes. Probably one for Jeanne's list, for consistency. >> >> regards >> David >> >> On Wednesday, February 20, 2002, at 09:29 , Pierre Delain wrote: >> >>> I try to use the following handler to create a shortcut with the "T" : >>> >>> on controlkeydown "T" >>> DoSomeThing >>> end controlkeydown >>> >>> There is no reaction. What is wrong in my handler? >>> >>> >>> Thanks >>> >>> P?erre >>> _______________________________________________ >>> use-revolution mailing list >>> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com >>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution >>> >> > > _______________________________________________ > use-revolution mailing list > use-revolution at lists.runrev.com > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution > From raney at metacard.com Thu Feb 21 00:37:01 2002 From: raney at metacard.com (Scott Raney) Date: Thu Feb 21 00:37:01 2002 Subject: Boxes, Grids, & Snap to Objects In-Reply-To: <200202210443.XAA03294@www.runrev.com> Message-ID: On Wed, 20 Feb 2002 Geoff Canyon wrote: > > At 10:47 AM -0700 2/20/02, Scott Raney wrote: > >And the very worst thing to do with any of these is "repeat until > >", which will condemn you to the fires of eternal damnation > >in multiuser hell ;-) > > I assume the same warning applies to: > > wait until (the optionKey is "down"|the mouse is "down"|etc.) > > Is that correct? It goes doubly for that ;-) > Also, can you elaborate a bit on what you mean by "multiuser hell?" > Is there something specific about a multi-user system that > contraindicates these functions and messages such as mouseWithin and > idle? Yes: timeshare systems (including UNIX and NT/2000/XP) penalize processes that take up too much CPU time by giving them lower priority than other processes. After being a CPU hog for too long, users will find your app becoming increasingly less responsive as time gets devoted to other processes. Now none of this really matters if the only significant thing running on your system is a single app that you're using. But if anything else is running (like an HTTP or file or print server), these techniques will take time away from those other processes, and cause the OS to penalize your app to make up the difference. Which will make your app feel less responsive to the user, making you (and us) look bad. > Just looking to get edjumacated. I've found it to be a useful debugging tool to take an existing script and insert something like: > > put somethingUsefulToExamine > wait until the optionKey is "down" > > Doing so allows me to quickly check a value deep in a repeat loop, something the debugger is less suited to because of its impact on script execution speed. But I've also found circumstances where, as you described, repeated polling the optionKey seemed to cause a problem. > This is a fine use of those functions. Pretty much anything you only do during development or only when running the app on your own system is going to be OK. It's giving (let alone selling) these CPU hogging programs to *other* users that's a bad idea. Regards, Scott > regards, > > Geoff ******************************************************** Scott Raney raney at metacard.com http://www.metacard.com MetaCard: You know, there's an easier way to do that... From gcanyon at inspiredlogic.com Thu Feb 21 01:27:01 2002 From: gcanyon at inspiredlogic.com (Geoff Canyon) Date: Thu Feb 21 01:27:01 2002 Subject: Polling the mouse state In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: At 4:37 AM +0000 2/21/02, Ian Summerfield wrote: >Using the mousemove is no good. I want to suspect all the messages from >happening while I'm dragging a pin around on my timer plug. With mousemove >I'm effectively dropping back to an "idle" state between each call, I need >to stay in the handler, to do that I'm back to checking myself whether the >mouse is still down or not. > >Try this as an example, call beeper from the message box to get the beeps >going, then the challenge is to make the drag work but suspect the beeps, >however, just killing the event is no answer, my program might have 30-40 >different events pending and killing them all is out of the question. Why out of the question? It would be fairly simple to go through the list of pendingMessages and cancel them all. If you need to resend them later, keep the list to do that. If you need to postpone the messages, as an alternative, you could modify each of the handlers that are called by inserting the following into each of them: global dragging if dragging then send (whateverThisHandlerIs) to me in howeverMany seconds exit to top end if That would make it automatic. But your best bet is to go through the pendingMessages. >Put in card script, and have a button called "drag": > >on mousedown > global dragging > put the short name of the target = "drag" into dragging >end mousedown > >on mousemove x,y > global dragging > put x & "," & y into myPointIs > if xyz > then set the loc of the target to myPointIs > -- I have code here to check whether the object has intersected other > -- things, if so different drag handlers take over, so using the > -- drag command isn't on >end mousemove > >on mouseup > global dragging > put false into dragging >end mouseup > >on beeper > beep > send beeper to this card in 10 secs >end beeper > >And all hell is let loose if a mouseup event is lost, as can happen if you >switch out of revolution with the mouse still down. Try adding this handler: on mouseRelease global dragging put false into dragging end mouseRelease regards, Geoff From gcanyon at inspiredlogic.com Thu Feb 21 01:48:01 2002 From: gcanyon at inspiredlogic.com (Geoff Canyon) Date: Thu Feb 21 01:48:01 2002 Subject: Polling the mouse state In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: At 8:56 PM -0800 2/20/02, Ken Norris (dialup) wrote: >on 2/20/02 6:50 AM, Jim Hurley at jphurley at jps.net wrote: > >> This issue of polling the mouse state continues to crop up. I have >> had to avoid the use of the old HyperCard standby: >> >> "repeat while the mouse is down" >---------- >I love "repeat while the mouse is down" because it allows me to do a bunch >of mouseDown stuff, then a bunch of mouseUp stuff when the repeat ends, all >in one handler. > >I'm working on an HC stack right now that uses it. Never had a problem in >HC, except with the occasional bonk in an idle handler, but NEVER in a >repeat loop. > >Does 'grab' and 'mousemove' really have potential response speed problems in >RR/MC? I have some HC stacks I want to convert where a 'hunting' button is >tied to the cursor. This ability is key to the stack's function, no good >without it. As far as i know, "grab" is fine to use -- it's just that you get no messages while it is in effect. MouseMove is a good answer if you need to respond to messages while you're moving something. "Repeat while the mouse is down" has been deprecated (meaning that you can't depend on it continuing as a part of Revolution) and even now doesn't work as well in Revolution as it does in HyperCard. If you have a specific need that seems to require "repeat while the mouse is down," post it and we'll see if we can figure a way around it. regards, Geoff From shaosean at unitz.ca Thu Feb 21 02:40:01 2002 From: shaosean at unitz.ca (Shao Sean) Date: Thu Feb 21 02:40:01 2002 Subject: answer/ask References: Message-ID: <000b01c1baaa$8bf795f0$88b15bd1@dreamlanpc> > > ask "what is this?" > > if it is "OK" then set the visible of stack "a" to false try checking "the result" instead of "it" From preid at reidit.co.uk Thu Feb 21 04:43:01 2002 From: preid at reidit.co.uk (Peter Reid) Date: Thu Feb 21 04:43:01 2002 Subject: Problem with Launch Command In-Reply-To: <00f701c1ba8e$6a97f330$0000a398@sndmgr122> References: <00f701c1ba8e$6a97f330$0000a398@sndmgr122> Message-ID: >I haven't had time to test this, but just to give you a possible idea to >use, try adding appropriate scripts to a substack and a main stack to do the >following: 1) open Acrobat Reader from the substack (perhaps a splash >screen stack), 2) open your main stack, 3) close the substack, and then 4) >use launch commands from the main stack to open multiple PDFs within the >existing instance of Acrobat Reader. It seems to me that using the substack >in that way would be the equivalent of opening the reader outside of the >stack from which you're going to be launching the multiple PDFs. I'm sure >you'd have to close the substack first in order to achieve that effect. I'd >be interested in hearing whether that route works for you. > >Tommy Simmons >Have you considered my suggestion of avoiding launch (at least the second >time) and using AppleScript to directly ask Acrobat to open the file? > >Ben Rubinstein Thanks to both Tommy and Ben for their suggestions above. I've tried a variant of Tommy's suggestion, that is I've created a minimal stack that simply launches Acrobat and then quits. I've turned this stack into a standalone app (AcrobatLauncher). I'm not sure that a substack of the main stack approach would work as the launch of Acrobat would still be a child process of the main stack. Now I can trigger this AcrobatLauncher app to open Acrobat in a way that means it is externally opened and behaves as required (i.e. I can open several Acrobat docs using "launch" in my main stack/app and I don't need to "kill" anything). HOWEVER, I now have the problem that I can't tell whether Acrobat is already running or not! My main program/stack needs to check whether Acrobat is already running, if not it must launch my small AcrobatLauncher program BEFORE using the "launch" command to open the next Acrobat file. So, the question now becomes, how to I check whether Acrobat is already running or not for both Mac and Windows (bearing in mind that it could be any version of Acrobat and it may be the full Acrobat or simply the Acrobat Reader)? The "openProcesses" does not tell you about any processes NOT opened by the running stack/app. Whilst Ben's idea looks good, it only provides a Mac solution, not a Windows one, so I put this to one side for now until I've exhausted any dual platform solutions. Also, I have a slight concern about using AppleScript as to whether I can absolutely rely on the Mac users' system having the full AppleScript support installed? Cheers Peter -- Peter Reid Reid-IT Limited, Loughborough, Leics., UK Tel: +44 (0)1509 268843 Fax: +44 (0)870 052 7576 E-mail: preid at reidit.co.uk Web: http://www.reidit.co.uk From Stgecft at aol.com Thu Feb 21 04:57:01 2002 From: Stgecft at aol.com (Stgecft at aol.com) Date: Thu Feb 21 04:57:01 2002 Subject: check box buttons Message-ID: <125.c38c2b3.29a563e4@aol.com> when I doMenu "New Card", All of my fields (Groups)that have background behavior set to true copy fine --The check box buttons also copy over but I want them to work independntly on each page. They currently all check when 1 is checked. What is the trick to have grouped check box buttons placed so they work independently from previous pages. Randy Kent From kmajor at metascape.org Thu Feb 21 05:06:01 2002 From: kmajor at metascape.org (Klaus Major) Date: Thu Feb 21 05:06:01 2002 Subject: check box buttons In-Reply-To: <125.c38c2b3.29a563e4@aol.com> Message-ID: <33D1B08A-26B2-11D6-8A30-003065D52E8E@metascape.org> Hi Randy, > when I doMenu "New Card", All of my fields (Groups)that have background > behavior set to true copy fine --The check box buttons also copy over > but I > want them to work independntly on each page. They currently all check > when 1 > is checked. What is the trick to have grouped check box buttons placed > so > they work independently from previous pages. Well, actually it's a secret formula, which has to be spoken at midnight on an old pet-cemetary... (No, i am just kidding :-D > Randy Kent in the property-palette -> button uncheck "Share Hilite on Each Card" for each button in your group. That should do the trick... Regards Klaus Major kmajor at metascape.org From wow at together.net Thu Feb 21 06:50:01 2002 From: wow at together.net (Richard D. Miller) Date: Thu Feb 21 06:50:01 2002 Subject: Window positions In-Reply-To: <33D1B08A-26B2-11D6-8A30-003065D52E8E@metascape.org> Message-ID: In the runtime mode (i.e. when starting up and running with a standalone stack and associated stacks), will Rev automatically update and save the topleft position of stacks under Windows, or must this be updated by script? I thought saving was automatic. We have users telling us they believe they are moving stacks to certain positions on the screen, shutting them down, then re-opening them, only to find they are not re-opening to the last location where they had left them. I'd like to hear feedback on this behavior. Thanks. -- Richard Miller The Wood Exchange.info http://www.thewoodexchange.info 802-238-5355 802-951-2534 fax From iansummerfield at btconnect.com Thu Feb 21 06:58:01 2002 From: iansummerfield at btconnect.com (Ian Summerfield) Date: Thu Feb 21 06:58:01 2002 Subject: Problem with Launch Command In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On 21/2/02 9:40 am, "Peter Reid" scribed: > Whilst Ben's idea looks good, it only provides a Mac solution, not a > Windows one, so I put this to one side for now until I've exhausted > any dual platform solutions. Also, I have a slight concern about > using AppleScript as to whether I can absolutely rely on the Mac > users' system having the full AppleScript support installed? The concern is only the same as having to wonder whether Quicktime is installed before playing a movie. But to check it is easy: Open preopenstack if "AppleScript" is not in the alternateLanguages then beep answer "Applescript needs to be installed for this program to function." quit end if End preopenstack From pdel at noos.fr Thu Feb 21 07:16:01 2002 From: pdel at noos.fr (Pierre Delain) Date: Thu Feb 21 07:16:01 2002 Subject: controlkeydown In-Reply-To: <200202210444.XAA03363@www.runrev.com> Message-ID: Finally I found two efficient structures : on controlKeyDown LaClef if LaClef = "T" then MuThemes else if LaClef = "F" then beep else if LaClef = "Y" then beep beep else pass controlkeydown end if end controlKeyDown and : on controlKeyDown LaClef switch LaClef case T MuThemes break case F beep break case Y beep beep break default pass controlKeyDown end switch end controlKeyDown Thank you everybody Pierre From preid at reidit.co.uk Thu Feb 21 08:51:01 2002 From: preid at reidit.co.uk (Peter Reid) Date: Thu Feb 21 08:51:01 2002 Subject: Problem with Launch Command In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: >On 21/2/02 9:40 am, "Peter Reid" scribed: > >> Whilst Ben's idea looks good, it only provides a Mac solution, not a >> Windows one, so I put this to one side for now until I've exhausted >> any dual platform solutions. Also, I have a slight concern about >> using AppleScript as to whether I can absolutely rely on the Mac >> users' system having the full AppleScript support installed? > >The concern is only the same as having to wonder whether Quicktime is >installed before playing a movie. But to check it is easy: > >Open preopenstack > if "AppleScript" is not in the alternateLanguages then > beep > answer "Applescript needs to be installed for this program to function." > quit > end if >End preopenstack OK Ian, I agree the AppleScript worry is not a big issue! However, it still leaves Windows!! The ext_appsOpen() function in the current Externals collection for Mac OS Classic & X lists all open programs. So it should be possible to detect whether some form of Acrobat viewer is already open on the Mac. Once again, this leaves Windows to be solved! Cheers Peter -- Peter Reid Reid-IT Limited, Loughborough, Leics., UK Tel: +44 (0)1509 268843 Fax: +44 (0)870 052 7576 E-mail: preid at reidit.co.uk Web: http://www.reidit.co.uk From preid at reidit.co.uk Thu Feb 21 09:04:01 2002 From: preid at reidit.co.uk (Peter Reid) Date: Thu Feb 21 09:04:01 2002 Subject: Cross-platform Open Default Acrobat Viewer Message-ID: Thanks to advice from others on this list, I now have a cross-platform (Mac OS Classic, Mac OS X, Windows) solution to opening the default Acrobat viewer application such that it can stay open in the background and open successive Acrobat files by the use of the "launch sample.pdf with acrobatViewer" command. The following is the stack script of my mini app that launches the default Acrobat viewer and then quits leaving the viewer running: constant \ cSamplePDF = "sample.pdf", \ cXexternalsStack = "xExternals.rev", \ cClassicExternalsStack = "ClassicExternals.rev" on preOpenStack global gAcrobatViewer, gProgPath -- find current program folder: put the fileName of this stack into gProgPath set itemDelimiter to "/" delete last item of gProgPath put "/" after gProgPath if "Win" is in the platform then -- find default Win Acrobat viewer: put word 1 to -2 of \ queryRegistry("HKEY_CLASSES_ROOT\AcroExch.Document\shell\open\command\") \ into gAcrobatViewer else -- find default Mac Acrobat viewer: -- activate appropriate Externals: put the systemVersion into sysVers set itemDelimiter to "." if item 1 of sysVers >= 10 then start using stack (gProgPath & cXexternalsStack) else start using stack (gProgPath & cClassicExternalsStack) end if -- get path of Mac Acrobat viewer: set itemDelimiter to gModuleListSep put gProgPath & cSamplePDF into samplePDF put ext_doctoapp(samplePDF) into gAcrobatViewer end if -- open default Acrobat viewer & quit: if the environment is not "development" then launch gAcrobatViewer quit end if end preOpenStack This uses the Externals that can be downloaded from the RunRev web site at: http://www.runrev.com/revolution/developers/developerdownloads/externalscollection.html The two stacks named in the "constants" section ("xExternals.rev" and "ClassicExternals.rev") are empty except that they have had the relevant version of the Mac Externals installed into them. Note that you MUST be running Mac OS Classic when installing the Classic Externals and running Mac OS X when installing the X Externals. If you attempt to open the wrong Externals for the current OS, Rev will crash out! For Windows, the mini app simply interrogates the registry to get the details of the default Acrobat viewer app. For the Mac, the above "starts using ..." the externals stack which is appropriate for the currently running version of Mac OS and then uses the "ext_docToApp()" function to get the name of the default Acrobat viewer. For this to work you need to supply the name of an existing Acrobat file - "sample.pdf". So, I have the following files in the same folder: AcrobatLauncher.exe - Win standalone Acrobat Launcher (1.6Mb) AcrobatLauncherClassic - Mac OS Classic standalone Acrobat Launcher (3.9Mb) AcrobatLauncherX - Mac OS X standalone Acrobat Launcher (2.4Mb) ClassicExternals.rev - Rev stack containing Mac OS Classic Externals (52Kb) xExternals.rev - Rev stack containing Mac OS X Externals (52Kb) Sample.pdf - tiny Acrobat file, content is irrelevant (72Kb) My main app uses similar code to the above to determine the path of the default Acrobat viewer app for use with the "launch" command. Note that using the "ext_appsOpen()" function in the Mac Externals, it's possible to check whether an Acrobat viewer app is already running prior to running AcrobatLauncher. Unfortunately, I still don't know how to do the same thing for Windows as yet. Thanks to everyone who's contributed to this, I hope the above is of help to anyone else trying to do the same thing (or something similar with "launching" of apps). Cheers Peter -- Peter Reid Reid-IT Limited, Loughborough, Leics., UK Tel: +44 (0)1509 268843 Fax: +44 (0)870 052 7576 E-mail: preid at reidit.co.uk Web: http://www.reidit.co.uk From rpresender at mail.earthlink.net Thu Feb 21 09:08:01 2002 From: rpresender at mail.earthlink.net (Robert Presender) Date: Thu Feb 21 09:08:01 2002 Subject: answer/ask Message-ID: Sarah wrote on 21 Feb 2002 (snip) > Problem 1: > The answer dialog box appears to be off screen (v1.1 and 1.1.1B1). Screen res > 640x480 Mac OS 9.2.2,PB G3. Don't know how to reference 'answer dialog box' > so that it can be used in the msg box to set the location say to 200,200. Ex: > set the loc of '?' to 200,200. Is this a bug? Ask dialog box appears ok. You can read the loc using put the loc of stack "Answer Dialog" but unlike in HyperCard, it doesn't seem possible to change it. The script gives no error but setting the loc doesn't stick. Thanks for the info Sarah. Found what the problem was. The answer stack property was set to 'always buffer'. Reset it to 'destroy window' (the same as 'Ask'). The answer dialog box now appears ok. The loc was aways correct but the box didn't show. Wonder if this is a bug. This is the first time that I looked at the stack properties of answer and ask. Regards ... Bob From JohnRule at aol.com Thu Feb 21 09:13:00 2002 From: JohnRule at aol.com (JohnRule at aol.com) Date: Thu Feb 21 09:13:00 2002 Subject: Do's and Dont's Message-ID: <4b.18af6ad4.29a659b8@aol.com> Thank you Scott for the 'stuff to avoid' list: >Yes. The full list of functions to avoid because they are deprecated is: >the mouse >the mouseClick >the mouseH >the mouseV >the mouseLoc >the optionKey >the commandKey >the controlKey Could you please provide a list of what to use instead'? And as a side note, I have been successfully using: if the controlKey is down then -- do this end if if the altKey is down then -- do that end if I am not checking any combinations of keys, but I am checking this condition within a mouseDown and mouseUp handler. Is this bad? What do I use instead? Thanks, JR From matt.denton at limelight.com.au Thu Feb 21 10:32:01 2002 From: matt.denton at limelight.com.au (Matt Denton) Date: Thu Feb 21 10:32:01 2002 Subject: imageData In-Reply-To: <200202200750.CAA15866@www.runrev.com> Message-ID: <942C7B10-26DF-11D6-9FDA-0003930B4708@limelight.com.au> Dear Jeanne imageData is missing out of the Transcript index, apologies if you have this one noted. Cheers, M@ From jphurley at jps.net Thu Feb 21 11:14:01 2002 From: jphurley at jps.net (Jim Hurley) Date: Thu Feb 21 11:14:01 2002 Subject: Polling the mouse In-Reply-To: <200202210443.XAA03220@www.runrev.com> References: <200202210443.XAA03220@www.runrev.com> Message-ID: Jim Hurley wrote: > >> I regularly use "repeat until the mouseClick" without the same >> problems I experience with the mouse function. My question is: Does >> the advice to stay away from polling the mouse extend to the >> mouseClick function as well? Scott has warned that the mouse() >> function may/will be discontinued. How about mouseClick()? Is it also >> in jeopardy? Scott Rainey wrote: >Yes. The full list of functions to avoid because they are deprecated is: >the mouse >the mouseClick >the mouseH >the mouseV >the mouseLoc >the optionKey >the commandKey >the controlKey > >And the very worst thing to do with any of these is "repeat until >", which will condemn you to the fires of eternal damnation >in multiuser hell ;-) > >The last 3 can be safely acquired with "the keysDown", but be careful >to not sit in a repeat loop calling that or you may hang your app or >at the very least have the gods of multiuser development strike you >down. > >And while we're on the subject of bad technique that will cause you >grief at some point, also avoid using the following messages: >mouseStillDown >mouseWithin >idle > >That's it. Not a long list, and in all cases it's very easy (I would >even in most cases say trivial) to do it the right way. A small price >to pay for shrugging off the last of the circa 1984 single-user >single-tasking design of MacOS and HyperCard. > Regards, > Scott After 35 years as a professor of physics, it has been my experience that trivial is in the mind of the beholder. Scott is quite right is pressing *developers* not to anger the "gods of multi-user development." But there is also another class of user, one to which Run Rev is trying to appeal, and that is the *student* who is using HyperTalk as a computer language--perhaps as young as eighth grade. And this user would be programming in the development environment and would be unconcerned with tying up the CPU. For some time I have been using HC, MC and/or RR to build Turtle Graphics into HyperTalk and allow grade school students to use the package to program their own solutions to problems in mathematics and physics. There are two areas in this work in which HyperCard is quite superior to MC or RR. (And there are many others, of course, in which MC and RR are infinitely superior to HC.) The most serious problem is the glacial speed with which MC draws images (in many cases this problem is lethal) and the second, and much less important, is the problems students have in polling the mouse. There appears to be no remedy in the offing to the speed problem. However, regarding mouse-polling, my earlier question dealt with the reliability and continued viability of the mouseClick function. As an example, students create a button which, when clicked, sends a satellite on its way into orbit around the earth--leaving a line in its wake to show the trajectory. (The student has programmed the turtle to obey the laws of Newtonian gravity.) When the student is satisfied with the length of the trajectory, he or she clicks again (anywhere on the screen) to stop the process. This is accomplished with a "repeat until the mouseClick" or "if the mouseClick then exit repeat." So my question is three-fold: 1. Is this a reliable operation given the current state of the MC engine? That is, is there a bug similar to that in "repeat until the mouse is down?" 2. We know that we may lose the mouse() function in the future. Is mouseClick vulnerable as well? 3. If mouseClick will not be an option, what is the work-around so that the student may click anywhere on the screen to exit a repeat loop, and hopefully one which is simple enough for an eighth grader to discover? (Since the student clicked the button to start the process, it is more natural to click again to stop the process. It would be awkward to have to move to the keyboard.) Jim Hurley -- Jim Hurley -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From matt.denton at limelight.com.au Thu Feb 21 11:45:01 2002 From: matt.denton at limelight.com.au (Matt Denton) Date: Thu Feb 21 11:45:01 2002 Subject: Missing hidden characters and htmlText In-Reply-To: <200202200750.CAA15866@www.runrev.com> Message-ID: On Wednesday, February 20, 2002, at 06:50 PM, "Jeanne A. E. DeVoto" wrote: > At 12:18 AM -0800 2/19/2002, Matt Denton wrote: >> I can't find a way to keep the 'hidden' character of a field that has >> the imageSource set for it. > > I think you'll find this is fixed in 1.1.1b1. (The hidden character, in > the > htmlText, is replaced by a tag of the form .) Thanks for your help but... Do you mean the 1.1.1b1 I'm running now? The problem still exists, any operations performed on the htmlText of a field destroy the character behind the imageSource. Try this: Create a field, put "This is some text" into it Type: set the imageSource of char 1 of fld 1 to "arrow" -- or some id that exists ...we now have "his is some text" with the hidden letter 'T' 'holding' the image, correct? Create a 2nd field to display some results in. We can get the full text by typing: put the text of fld 1 into fld "results" ... the result is 'This is some text' and we are happy. For the moment. Also try: put the htmlText of fld 1 into fld "results" ... and we get:

his is some text

PROBLEM occurs when we do something like: put the htmlText of fld 1 into lNewText -- pull the html text out for manipulation put lNewText &return& lNewText into lNewText -- manipulate the formatted text set the htmlText of fld 1 to lNewText -- restore the field after manipulation If we then try: put the text of fld 1 into fld "results" we get: his is some text his is some text and the 'T' is gone FOREVER. I've tried every variation I can think of to try and 'keep' the hidden 'graphic' character when manipulating formatted HTML text in and out of a field. No luck. In theory using a repeat loop could gobble up every char in your field. Anyone know how I can solve this problem? SUGGESTION: perhaps the htmlText could have an additional 'alt text' tag, similar to HTML holding the 'hidden' character that would be persistent when restoring the character after performing manipulations on the htmlText property. Otherwise I'm at a loss. Thanks for any and all suggestions, Cheers, M@ Matt Denton From hyperact at mn.rr.com Thu Feb 21 12:10:00 2002 From: hyperact at mn.rr.com (Jacqueline Landman Gay) Date: Thu Feb 21 12:10:00 2002 Subject: Polling the mouse state In-Reply-To: <200202211352.IAA11863@www.runrev.com> Message-ID: <7DA110B3-26E7-11D6-85AF-003065D2A46A@mn.rr.com> > At 4:37 AM +0000 2/21/02, Ian Summerfield wrote: >> Using the mousemove is no good. I want to suspect all the messages from >> happening while I'm dragging a pin around on my timer plug. With >> mousemove >> I'm effectively dropping back to an "idle" state between each call, I >> need >> to stay in the handler, to do that I'm back to checking myself whether >> the >> mouse is still down or not. Doesn't "grab" do what you want? I think it suspends other messages while the user is dragging and automatically exits when the user lets go of the mouse button. -- Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com From kray at sonsothunder.com Thu Feb 21 12:36:01 2002 From: kray at sonsothunder.com (Ken Ray) Date: Thu Feb 21 12:36:01 2002 Subject: Unique Macintosh Identification Message-ID: <00c001c1bafd$970209f0$7c00a8c0@mckinley.dom> This is slightly off-topic, but does anyone know how to uniquely identify a Mac? We're trying to set up a specific install that works on a set number of machines by getting a unique ID for the machine and using it to verify that the machine is "licensed". This doesn't have to specifically be through MetaCard (it could be AppleScript, XCMD, gestalt selector, etc.). Thanks! Ken Ray Sons of Thunder Software Email: kray at sonsothunder.com Web Site: http://www.sonsothunder.com/ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From Roger.E.Eller at sealedair.com Thu Feb 21 12:46:01 2002 From: Roger.E.Eller at sealedair.com (Roger.E.Eller at sealedair.com) Date: Thu Feb 21 12:46:01 2002 Subject: Unique Macintosh Identification Message-ID: > This is slightly off-topic, but does anyone know how to uniquely identify a Mac? > We're trying to set up a specific install that works on a set number of machines > by getting a unique ID for the machine and using it to verify that the machine is > "licensed". This doesn't have to specifically be through MetaCard (it could be > AppleScript, XCMD, gestalt selector, etc.). The following information is not from me. This was a previous topic of discussion here, and I saved it for my own future reference. It appears to address what you want to do. ~Roger Eller -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- >>>I'd appreciate hearing any thoughts on ways to build in serial number >>>protection...at least into one main opening stack. >> >> Hi Richard, >> >> Before I describe my approach, let me point out its limitations: >> >> 1. It is Mac-specific. >> >> 2. It only works on hardware/OS combos where the Apple System Profiler >> returns the computer serial number. >> >> 3. It works for me because my product is designed and priced for a limited >> marketplace. >> >> That being said, the AppleScript script: >> >> on getSerial() >> tell application "Apple System Profiler" >> launch >> copy SerialNumber to myNumber >> quit application "Apple System Profiler" >> end tell >> return myNumber >> end getSerial >> >> will return the Mac's serial #. (BTW, Apple System Profiler does NOT quit; >> but that's another issue.) >> >> When a winemaker orders, or subscribes to, OenoLog, the license is specific >> to the her/his Mac by serial number...which he/she retrieves using the >> System Profiler and includes on the order form. I burn a CD for that >> specific installation with the serial # encrypted in the stack. >> >> As I look to the future, I must determine which of the Mac-specific >> features in OenoLog can be reprogramed to be platform independent, and >> which must be given up if I am to achieve cross-platform compatability. It >> would be nice if Revolution had a built-in method of uniquely identifying >> the computer it's running on. Some people have suggested the Ethernet >> address as a possibility; but for my purposes the serial # is more easily >> retrieved by the user. >> >> I'd be happy to participate in any effort address the issue by RunRev or >> MetaCard staff and/or users. I'd also be interested in hearing from anyone >> who knows what toolbox call ASP uses to retrieve the serial # (some >> argument to gestalt(??)). If I knew that, I could ditch AppleScript; but >> I'm too cheap to pay Apple $200 so I can ask them directly. >> >> Rob Cozens >> CCW, Serendipity Software Company From scott at tactilemedia.com Thu Feb 21 13:03:00 2002 From: scott at tactilemedia.com (Scott Rossi) Date: Thu Feb 21 13:03:00 2002 Subject: Window positions In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Thursday, February 21, 2002, at 03:46 AM, Richard D. Miller wrote: > In the runtime mode (i.e. when starting up and running with a standalone > stack and associated stacks), will Rev automatically update and save the > topleft position of stacks under Windows, or must this be updated by > script? > I thought saving was automatic. > > We have users telling us they believe they are moving stacks to certain > positions on the screen, shutting them down, then re-opening them, only > to > find they are not re-opening to the last location where they had left > them. > I'd like to hear feedback on this behavior. Stacks need to be saved in order to have window positioned saved. Window positions cannot be saved in standalones but you can set windows positions in a preOpenStack handler. Regards, Scott Rossi Creative Director, Tactile Media scott at tactilemedia.com http://www.tactilemedia.com From Roger.E.Eller at sealedair.com Thu Feb 21 13:22:01 2002 From: Roger.E.Eller at sealedair.com (Roger.E.Eller at sealedair.com) Date: Thu Feb 21 13:22:01 2002 Subject: Polling the mouse Message-ID: I must voice my opinion: The "gods" of programming may say it is a bad practice to program in a certain way, using certain functions under certain circumstances. This may be true. *BUT* There also may be legitimate uses for the "bad practices" for which there may be no alternative. I would rather see the functions remain viable for use at THE DEVELOPERS DISCRETION. Otherwise, it is kind of like saying everyone HAS TO USE Microsoft products. oops! I forgot... That one *IS* already being enforced. That's my 2 cents worth... Let the games (or flames) begin. ~Roger Eller > Scott Rainey wrote: > > Yes.? The full list of functions to avoid because they are deprecated is: > the mouse > the mouseClick > the mouseH > the mouseV > the mouseLoc > the optionKey > the commandKey > the controlKey From niklas_almesjo at yahoo.com Thu Feb 21 13:29:00 2002 From: niklas_almesjo at yahoo.com (Niklas Almesjö) Date: Thu Feb 21 13:29:00 2002 Subject: Applescript that sends mail.. (urgent)? In-Reply-To: <200202211703.MAA16361@www.runrev.com> Message-ID: <20020221182624.616.qmail@web12307.mail.yahoo.com> Sorry if this is a bit offtopic, but I need an Applescript that sends an e-mail using Outlook Express (or other common, preferably free mailprogram on Mac). Anyone knows how to do it? It's for an article and the deadline is just about now.. thanks, /Niklas Almesj? __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Sports - Coverage of the 2002 Olympic Games http://sports.yahoo.com From k_major at osnabrueck.netsurf.de Thu Feb 21 13:46:01 2002 From: k_major at osnabrueck.netsurf.de (Klaus Major) Date: Thu Feb 21 13:46:01 2002 Subject: Polling the mouse In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <16E0810E-26FB-11D6-A6AB-000A27B49A96@osnabrueck.netsurf.de> Hi Roger, > I must voice my opinion: > > The "gods" of programming may say it is a bad practice to program in a > certain way, using certain functions under certain circumstances. > This may be true. *BUT* > There also may be legitimate uses for the "bad practices" for which > there > may be no alternative. > I would rather see the functions remain viable for use at THE DEVELOPERS > DISCRETION. > Otherwise, it is kind of like saying everyone HAS TO USE Microsoft > products. > oops! I forgot... That one *IS* already being enforced. > That's my 2 cents worth... Let the games (or flames) begin. > > ~Roger Eller > >> Scott Rainey wrote: >> >> Yes.? The full list of functions to avoid because they are deprecated >> is: >> the mouse >> the mouseClick >> the mouseH >> the mouseV >> the mouseLoc >> the optionKey >> the commandKey >> the controlKey this is an advice and not a dogma ;-) C'mon, don't we all consciously and happily kill several million brain-cells from time to time, somehow ? (That was a metaphore :-) Regards from germany Klaus Major k_major at osnabrueck.netsurf.de From bornstein at designeq.com Thu Feb 21 13:47:01 2002 From: bornstein at designeq.com (Howard Bornstein) Date: Thu Feb 21 13:47:01 2002 Subject: Missing hidden characters and htmlText Message-ID: <200202211845.g1LIj2M07062@mailout5.nyroc.rr.com> Apparently the conversion to htmltext kills the reference to the "hidden" character. For example, put this in a button: on mouseup put "This is some text" into fld 1 set the imageSource of char 1 of fld 1 to "arrow" put the htmlText of fld 1 into lNewText set the htmlText of fld "results" to lNewText set the imageSource of char 1 of fld 1 to empty set the imageSource of char 1 of fld "results" to empty end mouseup The T is restored in fld 1 but is not restored in fld "results". It looks like you'll have to keep track of the hidden character yourself and restore it manually after an html conversion. :-( Howard Bornstein ____________________ D E S I G N E Q www.designeq.com >Try this: > >Create a field, put "This is some text" into it > >Type: > > set the imageSource of char 1 of fld 1 to "arrow" -- or some id >that exists > >...we now have "his is some text" with the hidden letter 'T' 'holding' >the image, correct? > >Create a 2nd field to display some results in. > >We can get the full text by typing: > > put the text of fld 1 into fld "results" > >... the result is 'This is some text' and we are happy. For the moment. > >Also try: > > put the htmlText of fld 1 into fld "results" > >... and we get: > >

his is some text

> >PROBLEM occurs when we do something like: > > put the htmlText of fld 1 into lNewText -- pull the html text out >for manipulation > put lNewText &return& lNewText into lNewText -- manipulate the >formatted text > set the htmlText of fld 1 to lNewText -- restore the field after >manipulation > >If we then try: > > put the text of fld 1 into fld "results" > >we get: > >his is some text >his is some text > >and the 'T' is gone FOREVER. From katir at hindu.org Thu Feb 21 13:51:00 2002 From: katir at hindu.org (Sivakatirswami) Date: Thu Feb 21 13:51:00 2002 Subject: Deprecated commands/Documentation In-Reply-To: <200202210443.XAA03220@www.runrev.com> Message-ID: on 2/20/02 6:43 PM, Scott Raney wrote: > And while we're on the subject of bad technique that will cause you > grief at some point, also avoid using the following messages: > mouseStillDown > mouseWithin > idle > > That's it. Not a long list, and in all cases it's very easy (I would > even in most cases say trivial) to do it the right way. A small price > to pay for shrugging off the last of the circa 1984 single-user > single-tasking design of MacOS and HyperCard. > Regards, > Scott For the untutored, an addition to documentation with the "not so long list of deprecated" commands with the corresponding "right way to do it." would be a wonderful addition. In the lack of a specific task to focus on, we could just list one or two theoretical "typical old handlers" for each old command and a corresponding "same handler with proper syntax." Hinduism Today Sivakatirswami Editor's Assistant/Production Manager katir at hindu.org www.HinduismToday.com, www.HimalayanAcademy.com, www.Gurudeva.org, www.hindu.org Read The Master Course Lesson of the Day at http://www.gurudeva.org/lesson.shtml From sims at ezpzapps.com Thu Feb 21 13:56:00 2002 From: sims at ezpzapps.com (sims) Date: Thu Feb 21 13:56:00 2002 Subject: Applescript that sends mail.. (urgent)? In-Reply-To: <20020221182624.616.qmail@web12307.mail.yahoo.com> References: <20020221182624.616.qmail@web12307.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: --OUTLOOK EXPRESS tell application "Finder" --**** **** **** **** --Type your message between the following inverted commas. ? --Remember to leave a line between the first inverted commas? --and the start of your message **** **** **** set myVar3 to ? " Your message goes in here Your message goes in here Your message goes in here Your message goes in here Your message goes in here Yours faithfully FirstName Surname" set myVar1 to "Dear " repeat tell application "Finder" activate with timeout of 300 seconds display dialog "Include a person's first name?" buttons {"Yes", "No", "Quit"} end timeout if button returned of result = "Yes" then display dialog "Type in the first name" default answer "" set myVar2 to (text returned of result as text) & " " set myVar4 to myVar1 & myVar2 & myVar3 else if button returned of result = "No" then set myVar4 to myVar3 --When there's no-one's first name else if button returned of result = "Quit" then exit repeat end if with timeout of 180 seconds display dialog "Type in email address" default answer "" buttons {"Quit", "OK"} default button "OK" end timeout set DialogResult to result set myVar to text returned of DialogResult as text --sets myVar to email address you type in set myButton to button returned of DialogResult if myButton = "Quit" then exit repeat end if if myButton = "OK" then set myVar to text returned of DialogResult as text end if -- **** **** **** **** -- ****Next is a bit of script that, apart from other things, puts -- your subject in the subject field. Type in your subject ? -- between the inverted commas after the word 'subject' ? -- below inside the curly brackets**** tell application "Outlook Express" activate make new draft window with properties ? {subject:"Your subject goes in here", content:myVar4, to recipients:myVar} ? end tell end tell end repeat end tell ------------------------ --FOR AOL (heavily commented...but you said 'urgent') set tAttach to ? alias "Macintosh HD:Desktop Folder:AllSimsAllTheTime:130202sims.sit" --(choose file with prompt "Select file") tell application "America Online" --set toList to {"AOLUser"} --set ccList to {"name1 at example.com", "name2 at example.com"} --set bccList to {} --set mailSubject to "Widgets" --set mailMessage to "Dear AOLUser:" & return & return & "Hope you're having fun." & return & return & "Love, AppleScript Editor" --set att to alias "SYS:test file" set documentRef to make new document with properties {kind:mail} --set mailref to mailer of documentRef --set text of documentRef to mailMessage --set subject of mailer of documentRef to mailSubject --repeat with mailRecipient in toList --make new addressee at end of mailref with properties {kind:regular, name:mailRecipient} --end repeat --repeat with mailRecipient in ccList --make new addressee at end of mailref with properties {kind:cc, name:mailRecipient} --end repeat --repeat with mailRecipient in bccList --make new addressee at end of mailref with properties {kind:bcc, name:mailRecipient} --end repeat --make new attachment at end of docref with properties {local file:att} make new attachment at end of documentRef with properties {local file:tAttach} -- SendLetter documentRef --close documentRef saving no end tell >Sorry if this is a bit offtopic, but I need an Applescript that sends an >e-mail using Outlook Express (or other common, preferably free mailprogram >on Mac). Anyone knows how to do it? It's for an article and the deadline >is just about now.. >thanks, >/Niklas Almesj? ___________________________________________ http://www.EZPZapps.com info at EZPZapps.com Software - Internet Development - Consulting From kray at sonsothunder.com Thu Feb 21 14:04:00 2002 From: kray at sonsothunder.com (Ken Ray) Date: Thu Feb 21 14:04:00 2002 Subject: Unique Macintosh Identification References: Message-ID: <00e601c1bb09$d26ad100$7c00a8c0@mckinley.dom> Thanks, Roger. Unfortunately it means I'd need to launch another app and then make it quit just to get the serial number. Perhaps there's a gestalt reference out there? Then I could use a gestalt XCMD or equivalent... Ken Ray Sons of Thunder Software Email: kray at sonsothunder.com Web Site: http://www.sonsothunder.com/ ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Thursday, February 21, 2002 11:43 AM Subject: Re: Unique Macintosh Identification > > > This is slightly off-topic, but does anyone know how to uniquely identify > a Mac? > > We're trying to set up a specific install that works on a set number of > machines > > by getting a unique ID for the machine and using it to verify that the > machine is > > "licensed". This doesn't have to specifically be through MetaCard (it > could be > > AppleScript, XCMD, gestalt selector, etc.). > > The following information is not from me. This was a previous topic of > discussion here, and I saved it for my own future reference. It appears to > address what you want to do. > > ~Roger Eller > > -------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------ > >>>I'd appreciate hearing any thoughts on ways to build in serial number > >>>protection...at least into one main opening stack. > >> > >> Hi Richard, > >> > >> Before I describe my approach, let me point out its limitations: > >> > >> 1. It is Mac-specific. > >> > >> 2. It only works on hardware/OS combos where the Apple System Profiler > >> returns the computer serial number. > >> > >> 3. It works for me because my product is designed and priced for a > limited > >> marketplace. > >> > >> That being said, the AppleScript script: > >> > >> on getSerial() > >> tell application "Apple System Profiler" > >> launch > >> copy SerialNumber to myNumber > >> quit application "Apple System Profiler" > >> end tell > >> return myNumber > >> end getSerial > >> > >> will return the Mac's serial #. (BTW, Apple System Profiler does NOT > quit; > >> but that's another issue.) > >> > >> When a winemaker orders, or subscribes to, OenoLog, the license is > specific > >> to the her/his Mac by serial number...which he/she retrieves using the > >> System Profiler and includes on the order form. I burn a CD for that > >> specific installation with the serial # encrypted in the stack. > >> > >> As I look to the future, I must determine which of the Mac-specific > >> features in OenoLog can be reprogramed to be platform independent, and > >> which must be given up if I am to achieve cross-platform compatability. > It > >> would be nice if Revolution had a built-in method of uniquely > identifying > >> the computer it's running on. Some people have suggested the Ethernet > >> address as a possibility; but for my purposes the serial # is more > easily > >> retrieved by the user. > >> > >> I'd be happy to participate in any effort address the issue by RunRev or > >> MetaCard staff and/or users. I'd also be interested in hearing from > anyone > >> who knows what toolbox call ASP uses to retrieve the serial # (some > >> argument to gestalt(??)). If I knew that, I could ditch AppleScript; > but > >> I'm too cheap to pay Apple $200 so I can ask them directly. > >> > >> Rob Cozens > >> CCW, Serendipity Software Company > > > _______________________________________________ > use-revolution mailing list > use-revolution at lists.runrev.com > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution > From raney at metacard.com Thu Feb 21 15:01:01 2002 From: raney at metacard.com (Scott Raney) Date: Thu Feb 21 15:01:01 2002 Subject: Polling the mouse In-Reply-To: <200202211703.MAA16361@www.runrev.com> Message-ID: On Thu, 21 Feb 2002 Jim Hurley wrote: > >Yes. The full list of functions to avoid because they are deprecated is: > >the mouse > >the mouseClick > >the mouseH > >the mouseV > >the mouseLoc > >the optionKey > >the commandKey > >the controlKey > > > >And the very worst thing to do with any of these is "repeat until > >", which will condemn you to the fires of eternal damnation > >in multiuser hell ;-) > > > >The last 3 can be safely acquired with "the keysDown", but be careful > >to not sit in a repeat loop calling that or you may hang your app or > >at the very least have the gods of multiuser development strike you > >down. One more note on this: as of engine version 2.4.2, the last three are also now done asynchronously and so won't be a problem anymore. And they've always been safe to use a single time in a "mouseDown" or "mouseUp" handler. It's getting them in a repeat loop that will potentially cause problems. (snip) > For some time I have been using HC, MC and/or RR to build Turtle > Graphics into HyperTalk and allow grade school students to use the > package to program their own solutions to problems in mathematics and > physics. There are two areas in this work in which HyperCard is quite > superior to MC or RR. (And there are many others, of course, in which > MC and RR are infinitely superior to HC.) The most serious problem is > the glacial speed with which MC draws images (in many cases this > problem is lethal) and the second, and much less important, is the > problems students have in polling the mouse. > > There appears to be no remedy in the offing to the speed problem. Actually the current release is pretty close to HC in performance, the primary remaining difference being due to running in color vs black and white (anywhere from 8 to 32 times as much data to move around, you know). > However, regarding mouse-polling, my earlier question dealt with the > reliability and continued viability of the mouseClick function. > > As an example, students create a button which, when clicked, sends a > satellite on its way into orbit around the earth--leaving a line in > its wake to show the trajectory. (The student has programmed the > turtle to obey the laws of Newtonian gravity.) When the student is > satisfied with the length of the trajectory, he or she clicks again > (anywhere on the screen) to stop the process. This is accomplished > with a "repeat until the mouseClick" or "if the mouseClick then exit > repeat." > > So my question is three-fold: > > 1. Is this a reliable operation given the current state of the MC > engine? That is, is there a bug similar to that in "repeat until the > mouse is down?" > 2. We know that we may lose the mouse() function in the future. Is > mouseClick vulnerable as well? > 3. If mouseClick will not be an option, what is the work-around so > that the student may click anywhere on the screen to exit a repeat > loop, and hopefully one which is simple enough for an eighth grader > to discover? (Since the student clicked the button to start the > process, it is more natural to click again to stop the process. It > would be awkward to have to move to the keyboard.) The short answer to your question is, don't use a repeat loop, use "send .. in" to draw the segments instead, and cancel the message if you get a mouseDown. The long answer, and probably much more than you want to know, is that "the mouseClick" is really the problem here, not "the mouse". "the mouse" could in theory be done asynchronously. If this were changed you'd still have the performance issue to deal with (i.e., "repeat until" would never be as smooth as using mouseMove messages and would eventually cause the OS to start penalizing your app), but reliability wouldn't because this information can be queried directly from the OS on all platforms. You'd also be subject to the normal behavior of async functions (e.g., in HC, "the mouse" returns "down" if the user clicked down anytime between when the handler started running and when the function is called, whereas an async implementation would only return "down" if it was actually down when you made the call). The problem with "the mouseClick" is that of state management and event order: it has to wait for the mouse to go down and then back up. Worse, at least for HC compatibility, is that if you do something in a script that takes a few seconds and click twice in that interval, "the mouseClick" will return true *twice*. This means that it's necessary to maintain a queue of these mouse events and check the whole queue each time the function is called to see if there is both a mouseDown and a mouseUp message in it, and pull them out as a pair if so. And of course you can't just leave the rest of the events in the queue either, because some of them (like socket events and redraws) need to be handled independently of what the currently running handler is doing. Doing this cross-platform is horrendously complicated, and results in compromized reliability for *everything*, not just the mouseClick function. Which is why we want to (and plan to) remove this functionality, or at least substantially modify it to remove this queueing aspect (e.g., the mouseClick would return true only if you clicked down and up any time between the start of the handler and when you made the call, and once it returned true *all* state information would be tossed out so it wouldn't return true again until the user clicked again after the function returned true, even if they clicked multiple times before the first call). Whew. Scott > Jim Hurley > -- ******************************************************** Scott Raney raney at metacard.com http://www.metacard.com MetaCard: You know, there's an easier way to do that... From iansummerfield at btconnect.com Thu Feb 21 15:07:01 2002 From: iansummerfield at btconnect.com (Ian Summerfield) Date: Thu Feb 21 15:07:01 2002 Subject: Do's and Dont's In-Reply-To: <4b.18af6ad4.29a659b8@aol.com> Message-ID: On 21/2/02 2:10 pm, "JohnRule at aol.com" scribed: >> Yes. The full list of functions to avoid because they are deprecated is: >> the mouse >> the mouseClick >> the mouseH >> the mouseV >> the mouseLoc >> the optionKey >> the commandKey >> the controlKey Is this official or just what users are finding temperamental? If they are deprecated then under what circumstances? I may have to write one extremely simple and 100% reliable piece of C code to test the state of the mouse button for my code and compile it as an external, I think I'll call it "themouse"! After all, in the world of C it's quite straight forward, one line I expect. I thought HyperTalk was originally devised from Hypercard by Bill Atkinson? These functions were in HyperTalk, so either Revolution speaks the language or it doesn't? I'm fast being put off a 4GL that redefines the standard whenever things get complicated. From steve at messimercomputing.com Thu Feb 21 15:12:01 2002 From: steve at messimercomputing.com (Steve Messimer) Date: Thu Feb 21 15:12:01 2002 Subject: groups question Message-ID: Hi, When using v 1.1 when I create a group and copy it and paste it into another stack the group sometimes looses its group identity. ie when I click on it only the component object I click on is hilited NOT the entire grp. I want to create groups in one stack and use them as templtes in other stacks. This seems as if it should be possible but doesn't work. Is this a bug or am I doing something wrong? Steve Stephen R. Messimer Messimer Computing, Inc 2501 14th Ave South Escanaba, MI 49829 www.messimercomputing.com From iansummerfield at btconnect.com Thu Feb 21 15:14:01 2002 From: iansummerfield at btconnect.com (Ian Summerfield) Date: Thu Feb 21 15:14:01 2002 Subject: Polling the mouse state In-Reply-To: <7DA110B3-26E7-11D6-85AF-003065D2A46A@mn.rr.com> Message-ID: On 21/2/02 4:24 pm, "Jacqueline Landman Gay" scribed: > > Doesn't "grab" do what you want? I think it suspends other messages while > the user is dragging and automatically exits when the user lets go of the > mouse button. No, drag doesn't let me check whether the object has been dragged into the bounds of another while the dragging is still going on. From iansummerfield at btconnect.com Thu Feb 21 15:24:00 2002 From: iansummerfield at btconnect.com (Ian Summerfield) Date: Thu Feb 21 15:24:00 2002 Subject: Unique Macintosh Identification In-Reply-To: <00e601c1bb09$d26ad100$7c00a8c0@mckinley.dom> Message-ID: I don't know the answer but I do not that few things are unique in the Mac, the serial number hasn't been in ROM for long, it's not in my B&W 450Mhz. So I would suggest you investigate getting the Ethernet address, that is unique and Mac's have had Ethernet built in since the 1950's! -i- On 21/2/02 6:58 pm, "Ken Ray" scribed: > Thanks, Roger. Unfortunately it means I'd need to launch another app and > then make it quit just to get the serial number. Perhaps there's a gestalt > reference out there? Then I could use a gestalt XCMD or equivalent... > > Ken Ray > Sons of Thunder Software > Email: kray at sonsothunder.com > Web Site: http://www.sonsothunder.com/ > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: > To: > Sent: Thursday, February 21, 2002 11:43 AM > Subject: Re: Unique Macintosh Identification > From ambassador at FourthWorld.com Thu Feb 21 15:37:01 2002 From: ambassador at FourthWorld.com (Richard Gaskin) Date: Thu Feb 21 15:37:01 2002 Subject: Polling the mouse state In-Reply-To: <200202212002.PAA24267@www.runrev.com> Message-ID: Jacqueline Landman Gay writes: > Doesn't "grab" do what you want? I think it suspends other messages while > the user is dragging and automatically exits when the user lets go of the > mouse button. The grab command could give me everything I need for 90% of the times I need such a thing, if only I could specify bounds for the dragging operation (I usually need to restrict it to either axis, or within a given rect). Any syntax sugestions for such an addition? -- Richard Gaskin Fourth World Media Corporation Custom Software and Web Development for All Major Platforms Developer of WebMerge 1.9: Publish any Database on Any Site ___________________________________________________________ Ambassador at FourthWorld.com http://www.FourthWorld.com Tel: 323-225-3717 AIM: FourthWorldInc From ambassador at FourthWorld.com Thu Feb 21 16:13:00 2002 From: ambassador at FourthWorld.com (Richard Gaskin) Date: Thu Feb 21 16:13:00 2002 Subject: Polling the mouse In-Reply-To: <200202212002.PAA24267@www.runrev.com> Message-ID: > The short answer to your question is, don't use a repeat loop, use > "send .. in" to draw the segments instead, and cancel the message if > you get a mouseDown. > > The long answer, and probably much more than you want to know, is that > "the mouseClick" is really the problem here, not "the mouse". "the > mouse" could in theory be done asynchronously. If this were changed > you'd still have the performance issue to deal with (i.e., "repeat > until" would never be as smooth as using mouseMove messages and would > eventually cause the OS to start penalizing your app), but reliability > wouldn't because this information can be queried directly from the OS > on all platforms. You'd also be subject to the normal behavior of > async functions (e.g., in HC, "the mouse" returns "down" if the user > clicked down anytime between when the handler started running and when > the function is called, whereas an async implementation would only > return "down" if it was actually down when you made the call). > > The problem with "the mouseClick" is that of state management and > event order: it has to wait for the mouse to go down and then back up. > Worse, at least for HC compatibility, is that if you do something in a > script that takes a few seconds and click twice in that interval, "the > mouseClick" will return true *twice*. This means that it's necessary > to maintain a queue of these mouse events and check the whole queue > each time the function is called to see if there is both a mouseDown > and a mouseUp message in it, and pull them out as a pair if so. And > of course you can't just leave the rest of the events in the queue > either, because some of them (like socket events and redraws) need to > be handled independently of what the currently running handler is > doing. Doing this cross-platform is horrendously complicated, and > results in compromized reliability for *everything*, not just the > mouseClick function. Which is why we want to (and plan to) remove > this functionality, or at least substantially modify it to remove this > queueing aspect (e.g., the mouseClick would return true only if you > clicked down and up any time between the start of the handler and when > you made the call, and once it returned true *all* state information > would be tossed out so it wouldn't return true again until the user > clicked again after the function returned true, even if they clicked > multiple times before the first call). This is the best explanation yet, and I've saved it to explain to clients why so much of their code needs to be rewritten when moving stuff from another xTalk. They hate paying for it, but attempting to check the mouse during a repeat loop is not reliable in MC, even though it works well in other xTalks, and I try to tell them it's just a small tradeoff for gaining the other 97.5% of the market (is the Mac really down to 2.5% as MediaMetric reported two weeks ago?). However, something that would be even more useful than this explanation are a couple of good examples in the docs of how one would approach converting such a handler. The mental flip-flops needed to do this took me a fair amount of trial and error to get down, and the time lost is something either a client pays for or I absorb here, but regardless who's writing the check it still feels like a loss when the same handler worked perfectly before conversion. Given the background you provided I support the move, but anything that could be done to reduce conversion costs would be very helpful. As it is, with complex projects it's sometimes easier to write something over from scratch than pick your way through differences in syntax and object model. There are many benefits to a complete rewrite (and with OS X and XP, most projects need a UI overhaul anyway), but it's a hard sell for new clients who don't understand how something can be "compatible" and "incompatible" at the same time. :) -- Richard Gaskin Fourth World Media Corporation Custom Software and Web Development for All Major Platforms Developer of WebMerge 1.9: Publish any Database on Any Site ___________________________________________________________ Ambassador at FourthWorld.com http://www.FourthWorld.com Tel: 323-225-3717 AIM: FourthWorldInc From Stgecft at aol.com Thu Feb 21 16:33:01 2002 From: Stgecft at aol.com (Stgecft at aol.com) Date: Thu Feb 21 16:33:01 2002 Subject: check box Buttons Message-ID: <6a.1b8679fb.29a6c0ec@aol.com> When I doMenu "New Card" or create new card, All of my fields (Groups) that have background behavior set to true, copy fine --The check box buttons also copy over but I want them to work independently on each page. They currently all check when 1 is checked. What is the trick to have grouped check box buttons placed so they work independently from previous pages? Randy Kent From saultsj at missouri.edu Thu Feb 21 16:35:01 2002 From: saultsj at missouri.edu (J. Scott Saults) Date: Thu Feb 21 16:35:01 2002 Subject: Polling the mouse In-Reply-To: <200202212002.PAA24187@www.runrev.com> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020221152255.00a59a60@pop.email.missouri.edu> Thu, 21 Feb 2002 12:58:57 -0700 (MST) Scott Raney wrote >You'd also be subject to the normal behavior of >async functions (e.g., in HC, "the mouse" returns "down" if the user >clicked down anytime between when the handler started running and when >the function is called, whereas an async implementation would only >return "down" if it was actually down when you made the call). Just for the sake of accuracy, in HC & SuperCard , the mouse function does NOT necessarily reutun "down" if the user clicked anytime between when the handler started and when the function is called. Both SuperCard and HyperCard return the actual state of the mouse, up or down, whenever the mouse function is called within a handler, at least under Mac OS 9. Perhaps it works differently in OS X. From mazzapaolo at libero.it Thu Feb 21 16:43:00 2002 From: mazzapaolo at libero.it (paolo mazza) Date: Thu Feb 21 16:43:00 2002 Subject: Close stack In-Reply-To: <200202212005.PAA24493@www.runrev.com> Message-ID: I am using Rev 1.1.1.B1 in a PC with Window 98 I have a problem.... From drvaughan55 at mac.com Thu Feb 21 16:56:00 2002 From: drvaughan55 at mac.com (David Vaughan) Date: Thu Feb 21 16:56:00 2002 Subject: Deprecated mouse functions Message-ID: <7DEF8C5F-2715-11D6-BEEB-000393598038@mac.com> Scott Raney wrote: Yes. The full list of functions to avoid because they are deprecated is: the mouse the mouseClick the mouseH the mouseV the mouseLoc the optionKey the commandKey the controlKey ... as of engine version 2.4.2, the last three are also now done asynchronously and so won't be a problem anymore. And they've always been safe to use a single time in a "mouseDown" or "mouseUp" handler. It's getting them in a repeat loop that will potentially cause problems. and Sivakatirswami wrote: For the untutored, an addition to documentation with the "not so long list of deprecated" commands with the corresponding "right way to do it." would be a wonderful addition. It is good to receive Scott's list which I have not seen published before, even including the newly un-deprecated (precated? apprecated?) key functions, but I also strongly support Siva's view. I think it an important part of the documentation that deprecated functions be mentioned as such in the Transcript Dictionary, and a reference given to possible alternatives. At present, the "See also" in the Dictionary entry for the deprecated mouseLoc makes no reference at all to the preferred mouseMove, nor does that for mouseH refer to mousemoveH, so how is anyone not already familiar with the language supposed to find the preferred functions, especially if they come from xTalk and are already comfortable with the wrong ways? Jeanne................... regards David -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text/enriched Size: 1611 bytes Desc: not available URL: From gcanyon at inspiredlogic.com Thu Feb 21 17:23:00 2002 From: gcanyon at inspiredlogic.com (Geoff Canyon) Date: Thu Feb 21 17:23:00 2002 Subject: Do's and Dont's In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: At 8:02 PM +0000 2/21/02, Ian Summerfield wrote: >On 21/2/02 2:10 pm, "JohnRule at aol.com" scribed: > >>> Yes. The full list of functions to avoid because they are deprecated is: >>> the mouse >>> the mouseClick >>> the mouseH >>> the mouseV >>> the mouseLoc >>> the optionKey >>> the commandKey >>> the controlKey > > >Is this official or just what users are finding temperamental? If they are >deprecated then under what circumstances? I may have to write one extremely >simple and 100% reliable piece of C code to test the state of the mouse >button for my code and compile it as an external, I think I'll call it >"themouse"! After all, in the world of C it's quite straight forward, one >line I expect. That list was originally posted by Scott Raney. It doesn't get any more "official" than that. >I thought HyperTalk was originally devised from Hypercard by Bill Atkinson? >These functions were in HyperTalk, so either Revolution speaks the language >or it doesn't? I'm fast being put off a 4GL that redefines the standard >whenever things get complicated. The two languages are not completely compatible. In addition, there are some things that were possible in HyperCard, designed for a black and white, single-user, non-re-entrant, co-operative multi-tasking system, that simply aren't practical, or even possible, on the systems of today. The trade-off is a system that is much more powerful in many ways, and works on (far) more computers, including the ones Apple is shipping right now. regards, Geoff From jrussellcampbell at onetel.net.uk Thu Feb 21 17:38:01 2002 From: jrussellcampbell at onetel.net.uk (Russell Campbell) Date: Thu Feb 21 17:38:01 2002 Subject: Revoluionn hangs on the splash screen Message-ID: <3C7576CB.3090608@onetel.net.uk> I am using a new instalation of Red Hat 7.2 and have followed the instructions, have downloaded both files (revolutionenvironment.tgz & Linux.gz) Twice just to make sure that they were not corrupted. Any sugestions? Thanx in advance Russell From bornstein at designeq.com Thu Feb 21 17:45:01 2002 From: bornstein at designeq.com (Howard Bornstein) Date: Thu Feb 21 17:45:01 2002 Subject: check box Buttons Message-ID: <200202212242.g1LMgoM11948@mailout5.nyroc.rr.com> >When I doMenu "New Card" or create new card, All of my fields (Groups) that >have background behavior set to true, copy fine --The check box buttons >also >copy over but I want them to work independently on each page. They >currently >all check when 1 is checked. What is the trick to have grouped check box >buttons placed so they work independently from previous pages? Look at the button tab on the properties palette for each button. Make sure the "Share hilite on each card" is unchecked. Now they'll operate independently. Howard Bornstein ____________________ D E S I G N E Q www.designeq.com From bornstein at designeq.com Thu Feb 21 17:45:15 2002 From: bornstein at designeq.com (Howard Bornstein) Date: Thu Feb 21 17:45:15 2002 Subject: groups question Message-ID: <200202212242.g1LMgpM11965@mailout5.nyroc.rr.com> >When using v 1.1 when I create a group and copy it and paste it into another >stack the group sometimes looses its group identity. ie when I click on it >only the component object I click on is hilited NOT the entire grp. There's a setting in the Edit menu called "Selected Group Controls". When this is checked, you can select individual items in a group. When this is unchecked, selecting any item in a group will select the entire group. Very useful for quick editing. However, it you don't know about it, it'll drive you crazy. Make sure the menu item is not selected and you should have no trouble selecting the group. Howard Bornstein ____________________ D E S I G N E Q www.designeq.com From pixelbird at interisland.net Thu Feb 21 18:17:01 2002 From: pixelbird at interisland.net (Ken Norris (dialup)) Date: Thu Feb 21 18:17:01 2002 Subject: Polling the mouse state In-Reply-To: Message-ID: on 2/21/02 12:10 PM, Ian Summerfield at iansummerfield at btconnect.com wrote: > On 21/2/02 4:24 pm, "Jacqueline Landman Gay" scribed: > >> >> Doesn't "grab" do what you want? I think it suspends other messages while >> the user is dragging and automatically exits when the user lets go of the >> mouse button. > > No, drag doesn't let me check whether the object has been dragged into the > bounds of another while the dragging is still going on. ---------- I need to do the exact same thing in an eduware game stack. I'll be watching for the solutions while trying my own. Best regards, Ken N. From scott at tactilemedia.com Thu Feb 21 19:10:01 2002 From: scott at tactilemedia.com (Scott Rossi) Date: Thu Feb 21 19:10:01 2002 Subject: Polling the mouse state In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <21E1358A-2728-11D6-9861-0003934902A2@tactilemedia.com> On Thursday, February 21, 2002, at 03:27 PM, Ken Norris (dialup) wrote: >>> Doesn't "grab" do what you want? I think it suspends other messages >>> while >>> the user is dragging and automatically exits when the user lets go of >>> the >>> mouse button. >> >> No, drag doesn't let me check whether the object has been dragged into >> the >> bounds of another while the dragging is still going on. > ---------- > I need to do the exact same thing in an eduware game stack. I'll be > watching > for the solutions while trying my own. Is this what you folks are trying to do? http://www.tactilemedia.com/download/ Regards, Scott Rossi Creative Director, Tactile Media scott at tactilemedia.com http://www.tactilemedia.com From alistair.campbell at dhhs.tas.gov.au Thu Feb 21 19:45:00 2002 From: alistair.campbell at dhhs.tas.gov.au (Campbell Alistair) Date: Thu Feb 21 19:45:00 2002 Subject: Polling the mouse state Message-ID: Wow, What a web site. Very, very nice! You didn't do that using Revolution did you? Alistair Campbell Senior Clinical Psychologist Manager, CAMHS(N): "Oakrise" 3 Kelham St, Launceston, Tas, 7250 Ph: (03) 6336 2867 Fax: (03) 6336 2886 Email: -----Original Message----- From: Scott Rossi [mailto:scott at tactilemedia.com] Sent: Friday, 22 February 2002 11:07 AM To: use-revolution at lists.runrev.com Subject: Re: Polling the mouse state On Thursday, February 21, 2002, at 03:27 PM, Ken Norris (dialup) wrote: >>> Doesn't "grab" do what you want? I think it suspends other messages >>> while >>> the user is dragging and automatically exits when the user lets go of >>> the >>> mouse button. >> >> No, drag doesn't let me check whether the object has been dragged into >> the >> bounds of another while the dragging is still going on. > ---------- > I need to do the exact same thing in an eduware game stack. I'll be > watching > for the solutions while trying my own. Is this what you folks are trying to do? http://www.tactilemedia.com/download/ Regards, Scott Rossi Creative Director, Tactile Media scott at tactilemedia.com http://www.tactilemedia.com _______________________________________________ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution at lists.runrev.com http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution From curry at kagi.com Thu Feb 21 20:21:01 2002 From: curry at kagi.com (Curry) Date: Thu Feb 21 20:21:01 2002 Subject: Polling the mouse In-Reply-To: <200202212002.PAA24267@www.runrev.com> Message-ID: Scott Raney wrote: > Yes. The full list of functions to avoid because they are deprecated is: > the mouse > the mouseClick > the mouseH > the mouseV > the mouseLoc > the optionKey > the commandKey > the controlKey > > And the very worst thing to do with any of these is "repeat until > ", which will condemn you to the fires of eternal damnation > in multiuser hell ;-) Scott, I understand the problems of the OS penalty due to hogging the computer with polling of mouse functions during a repeat, but there are different kinds of software; in some cases, we may want to make software that is supposed to be the only main application running on a computer, for example, a game, a presentation, or an educational application with a lot of animation. Often, the documentation may even advise users of these types of programs to not run other applications unnecessarily at the same time for better performance. With these types of applications, often you would be ill-advised to run other major software at the same time anyway, not just because of its effect on the other software, but also because of other software's effect on it. For example, in one game project, I started off with the mouseMove message, and then had to switch to send..in plus the mouseLoc (once per handler), because mouseMove was not nearly responsive enough. (The object was always moving toward the mouse, but at its own speed, not directly tied to the mouse.) This was much more responsive. There are comparable situations with the other functions. I have no problem with the mouseClick going out. It's an obvious case. But I think it would be terrible to remove the others functions which were mentioned. As Scott said, it's using them with repeats that causes the problems. So, first, can we be assured that these functions will still remain, at least asynchronously, in the future? Otherwise, if the corresponding messages don't work well enough for a certain task, we will be in a jam someday. Secondly, using these functions synchronously allows much more convenient scripting for testing, personal projects, students (as someone mentioned), etc. Why not keep the functions synchronous, with the exception of mouseClick which could be turned asynchronous or simply trashed, and leave the responsibility of using them correctly up to the scripter? If a function is only called once per handler, it still won't hurt the system if called synchronously. For those making utilities and well-behaved games or educational apps that aren't full-screen or intensive, that would allow them to have a way to check once or twice within a handler and be assured of an accurate result. For those making full-screen or intensive apps, or testing or making projects for personal use, they could choose to poll these functions and take the consequences. If used wrongly, like anything else if life, they could cause problems, but that's what life is all about--using things the right way according to the situation. Any professional developer would avoid them where necessary. I think that avoiding these functions shouldn't have to be forced on all users in all situations just because it would be unwise some users in some situations. Ever since switching to Revolution, I've marvelled at how it is really such "an easier way to do that". I love everything about it. But I hope you will listen to all the users about this type of feature, since all of us are paying the subscription price, not just those who will definitely not miss these features because of the type of projects they do. Since it isn't absolutely necessary to remove all the features (the mouseClick is the main problem) and it isn't absolutely necessary to make the functions asynchronous as long as the scripter can be trusted to use them correctly according to the situation, I suggest that these changes not be forced on everyone. People really *can* choose to do the right thing. And any professional developers, or users in the appropriate situations, *will*. So on behalf of all those who want to make scripting choices, please keep the old power in there--we only need an FAQ, not a nanny! There's no reason to take away useful scripting features everyone writing scripts as a student, for personal use or testing, or making special types of software just because it can hurt someone else if used incorrectly. We all must be responsible for ourselves. If someone hogs the wrong CPU and it penalizes them, they may not care if they are working on a personal project for their own use. If not, they will fix it. That's my two cents--maybe it's three cents. I think this is a pretty important issue. It's not just about sentimentality--although those functions, used with and without repeat--are a very important part of scripting up to now in history. Going forward is good, but cutting out old ways altogether is not always good. It's easy for one group of people to decide that we must be resolute and the old way should be discarded, but sometimes this can be group-think, and others outside the group may have legitimate reasons for needing the original way, and it may cause unnecessary difficulties for some of them in their situations. So, I'm very happy and grateful to where MetaCard is going, and I admire and respect the great vision of the MetaCard and Revolution teams, but I want to strongly oppose and speak out clearly against the idea of cutting out these functions, or even making all of them asynchronous. I fled from several other developer tools because every aspect of the development tool was forced on users because of the developer's viewpoint. The MetaCard experience is just the opposite, allowing much flexibility, style, and convenience along with its serious power--which is why I think it would be a very, very big mistake to cut these functions. I don't think it's at all necessary to do so. I hope other users will speak up if they agree. Curry Kenworthy From curry at kagi.com Thu Feb 21 20:35:01 2002 From: curry at kagi.com (Curry) Date: Thu Feb 21 20:35:01 2002 Subject: Polling the mouse In-Reply-To: <200202212002.PAA24267@www.runrev.com> Message-ID: Scott Raney wrote: > Yes. The full list of functions to avoid because they are deprecated is: > the mouse > the mouseClick > the mouseH > the mouseV > the mouseLoc > the optionKey > the commandKey > the controlKey > > And the very worst thing to do with any of these is "repeat until > ", which will condemn you to the fires of eternal damnation > in multiuser hell ;-) Scott, I understand the problems of the OS penalty due to hogging the computer with polling of mouse functions during a repeat, but there are different kinds of software; in some cases, we may want to make software that is supposed to be the only main application running on a computer, for example, a game, a presentation, or an educational application with a lot of animation. Often, the documentation may even advise users of these types of programs to not run other applications unnecessarily at the same time for better performance. With these types of applications, often you would be ill-advised to run other major software at the same time anyway, not just because of its effect on the other software, but also because of other software's effect on it. For example, in one game project, I started off with the mouseMove message, and then had to switch to send..in plus the mouseLoc (once per handler), because mouseMove was not nearly responsive enough. (The object was always moving toward the mouse, but at its own speed, not directly tied to the mouse.) This was much more responsive. There are comparable situations with the other functions. I have no problem with the mouseClick going out. It's an obvious case. But I think it would be terrible to remove the others functions which were mentioned. As Scott said, it's using them with repeats that causes the problems. So, first, can we be assured that these functions will still remain, at least asynchronously, in the future? Otherwise, if the corresponding messages don't work well enough for a certain task, we will be in a jam someday. Secondly, using these functions synchronously allows much more convenient scripting for testing, personal projects, students (as someone mentioned), etc. Why not keep the functions synchronous, with the exception of mouseClick which could be turned asynchronous or simply trashed, and leave the responsibility of using them correctly up to the scripter? If a function is only called once per handler, it still won't hurt the system if called synchronously. For those making utilities and well-behaved games or educational apps that aren't full-screen or intensive, that would allow them to have a way to check once or twice within a handler and be assured of an accurate result. For those making full-screen or intensive apps, or testing or making projects for personal use, they could choose to poll these functions and take the consequences. If used wrongly, like anything else if life, they could cause problems, but that's what life is all about--using things the right way according to the situation. Any professional developer would avoid them where necessary. I think that avoiding these functions shouldn't have to be forced on all users in all situations just because it would be unwise some users in some situations. Ever since switching to Revolution, I've marvelled at how it is really such "an easier way to do that". I love everything about it. But I hope you will listen to all the users about this type of feature, since all of us are paying the subscription price, not just those who will definitely not miss these features because of the type of projects they do. Since it isn't absolutely necessary to remove all the features (the mouseClick is the main problem) and it isn't absolutely necessary to make the functions asynchronous as long as the scripter can be trusted to use them correctly according to the situation, I suggest that these changes not be forced on everyone. People really *can* choose to do the right thing. And any professional developers, or users in the appropriate situations, *will*. So on behalf of all those who want to make scripting choices, please keep the old power in there--we only need an FAQ, not a nanny! There's no reason to take away useful scripting features everyone writing scripts as a student, for personal use or testing, or making special types of software just because it can hurt someone else if used incorrectly. We all must be responsible for ourselves. If someone hogs the wrong CPU and it penalizes them, they may not care if they are working on a personal project for their own use. If not, they will fix it. That's my two cents--maybe it's three cents. I think this is a pretty important issue. It's not just about sentimentality--although those functions, used with and without repeat--are a very important part of scripting up to now in history. Going forward is good, but cutting out old ways altogether is not always good. It's easy for one group of people to decide that we must be resolute and the old way should be discarded, but sometimes this can be group-think, and others outside the group may have legitimate reasons for needing the original way, and it may cause unnecessary difficulties for some of them in their situations. So, I'm very happy and grateful to where MetaCard is going, and I admire and respect the great vision of the MetaCard and Revolution teams, but I want to strongly oppose and speak out clearly against the idea of cutting out these functions, or even making all of them asynchronous. I fled from several other developer tools because every aspect of the development tool was forced on users because of the developer's viewpoint. The MetaCard experience is just the opposite, allowing much flexibility, style, and convenience along with its serious power--which is why I think it would be a very, very big mistake to cut these functions. I don't think it's at all necessary to do so. I hope other users will speak up if they agree. Curry Kenworthy _______________________________________________ metacard mailing list metacard at lists.runrev.com http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/metacard From raney at metacard.com Thu Feb 21 21:49:01 2002 From: raney at metacard.com (Scott Raney) Date: Thu Feb 21 21:49:01 2002 Subject: Polling the mouse In-Reply-To: <200202212246.RAA30375@www.runrev.com> Message-ID: On Thu, 21 Feb 2002 "J. Scott Saults" wrote: > Thu, 21 Feb 2002 12:58:57 -0700 (MST) > Scott Raney wrote > >You'd also be subject to the normal behavior of > >async functions (e.g., in HC, "the mouse" returns "down" if the user > >clicked down anytime between when the handler started running and when > >the function is called, whereas an async implementation would only > >return "down" if it was actually down when you made the call). > > Just for the sake of accuracy, in HC & SuperCard , the mouse function does > NOT necessarily reutun "down" if the user clicked anytime between when the > handler started and when the function is called. Both SuperCard and > HyperCard return the actual state of the mouse, up or down, whenever the > mouse function is called within a handler, at least under Mac OS 9. Perhaps > it works differently in OS X. I didn't check SC, but HC definitely does not work the way you say. Try it yourself and see. Put the following script in a button, then click to run it and click again before the repeats finish (you may need to adjust the count depending on the speed of your system): on mouseUp get 0 repeat for 10000 times add 1 to it end repeat put the mouse end mouseUp It's compatibility at that level that's hard to do, convenient as it might be for some things. Regards, Scott ******************************************************** Scott Raney raney at metacard.com http://www.metacard.com MetaCard: You know, there's an easier way to do that... From raney at metacard.com Thu Feb 21 22:32:01 2002 From: raney at metacard.com (Scott Raney) Date: Thu Feb 21 22:32:01 2002 Subject: Polling the mouse In-Reply-To: <200202220122.UAA00908@www.runrev.com> Message-ID: On Thu, 21 Feb 2002 Curry wrote: > > Scott Raney wrote: > > > Yes. The full list of functions to avoid because they are deprecated is: > > the mouse > > the mouseClick > > the mouseH > > the mouseV > > the mouseLoc > > the optionKey > > the commandKey > > the controlKey > > > > And the very worst thing to do with any of these is "repeat until > > ", which will condemn you to the fires of eternal damnation > > in multiuser hell ;-) I noticed you CCed the MetaCard list, which is a good thing, I guess, though they're getting dumped into the middle of the discussion. Here's the key part of my previous message, just to bring them up to speed: The long answer, and probably much more than you want to know, is that "the mouseClick" is really the problem here, not "the mouse". "the mouse" could in theory be done asynchronously. If this were changed you'd still have the performance issue to deal with (i.e., "repeat until" would never be as smooth as using mouseMove messages and would eventually cause the OS to start penalizing your app), but reliability wouldn't because this information can be queried directly from the OS on all platforms. You'd also be subject to the normal behavior of async functions (e.g., in HC, "the mouse" returns "down" if the user clicked down anytime between when the handler started running and when the function is called, whereas an async implementation would only return "down" if it was actually down when you made the call). The problem with "the mouseClick" is that of state management and event order: it has to wait for the mouse to go down and then back up. Worse, at least for HC compatibility, is that if you do something in a script that takes a few seconds and click twice in that interval, "the mouseClick" will return true *twice*. This means that it's necessary to maintain a queue of these mouse events and check the whole queue each time the function is called to see if there is both a mouseDown and a mouseUp message in it, and pull them out as a pair if so. And of course you can't just leave the rest of the events in the queue either, because some of them (like socket events and redraws) need to be handled independently of what the currently running handler is doing. Doing this cross-platform is horrendously complicated, and results in compromized reliability for *everything*, not just the mouseClick function. Which is why we want to (and plan to) remove this functionality, or at least substantially modify it to remove this queueing aspect (e.g., the mouseClick would return true only if you clicked down and up any time between the start of the handler and when you made the call, and once it returned true *all* state information would be tossed out so it wouldn't return true again until the user clicked again after the function returned true, even if they clicked multiple times before the first call). It'd also be good to discuss the topic of sync/async polling on the HC and SC mailing lists to get a sense of how aware people are of this issue (I just responded to one poster on the use-revolution list who wasn't aware of this behavior of the mouse function, though lord knows we got enough bug reports about this back when MetaCard did a simple async report). > Scott, I understand the problems of the OS penalty due to hogging the > computer with polling of mouse functions during a repeat, but there are > different kinds of software; in some cases, we may want to make software > that is supposed to be the only main application running on a computer, for > example, a game, a presentation, or an educational application with a lot of > animation. > > Often, the documentation may even advise users of these types of programs to > not run other applications unnecessarily at the same time for better > performance. With these types of applications, often you would be > ill-advised to run other major software at the same time anyway, not just > because of its effect on the other software, but also because of other > software's effect on it. Understood, and that's why we added the keysDown function, which is a much better way to do this kind of thing than using keyDown messages and the optionKey/commandKey/shiftKey functions. I guess all that remains is a async mouse polling function, but we never considered this necessary because using message is always possible (and always preferred) in this case. > For example, in one game project, I started off with the mouseMove message, > and then had to switch to send..in plus the mouseLoc (once per handler), > because mouseMove was not nearly responsive enough. (The object was always > moving toward the mouse, but at its own speed, not directly tied to the > mouse.) This was much more responsive. I can't see why this would be the case unless you're running on a very slow system, moving very large objects or a large number of objects, or maybe doing a lot of other stuff in the background (like running movies or animated GIFs). Polling with send .. in and the mouseLoc is one way around the problem, but in general this approach (let alone using "repeat until ...") will result in a *less* responsive application because a lot of extra work is being done compared with the optimal solution of just using the mouseMove messages. > There are comparable situations with the other functions. I have no problem > with the mouseClick going out. It's an obvious case. But I think it would be > terrible to remove the others functions which were mentioned. As Scott said, > it's using them with repeats that causes the problems. And the fact that they're synchronous now, though this is actually "fixed" for the optionKey/commandKey/shiftKey functions in 2.4.2, was fixed for the mouseLoc awhile back, and could easily be fixed for the mouse function. It is just the mouseClick that is hard to solve any other way. > So, first, can we be assured that these functions will still remain, at > least asynchronously, in the future? Otherwise, if the corresponding > messages don't work well enough for a certain task, we will be in a jam > someday. > > Secondly, using these functions synchronously allows much more convenient > scripting for testing, personal projects, students (as someone mentioned), > etc. Why not keep the functions synchronous, with the exception of > mouseClick which could be turned asynchronous or simply trashed, and leave > the responsibility of using them correctly up to the scripter? Sounds reasonable to me, but given the number of bug reports we've received on this issue, you and I may be in the minority. Regards, Scott > Curry Kenworthy ******************************************************** Scott Raney raney at metacard.com http://www.metacard.com MetaCard: You know, there's an easier way to do that... From raney at metacard.com Thu Feb 21 22:50:01 2002 From: raney at metacard.com (Scott Raney) Date: Thu Feb 21 22:50:01 2002 Subject: Polling the mouse In-Reply-To: <200202220122.UAA00908@www.runrev.com> Message-ID: On Thu, 21 Feb 2002 Curry wrote: > > Scott Raney wrote: > > > Yes. The full list of functions to avoid because they are deprecated is: > > the mouse > > the mouseClick > > the mouseH > > the mouseV > > the mouseLoc > > the optionKey > > the commandKey > > the controlKey > > > > And the very worst thing to do with any of these is "repeat until > > ", which will condemn you to the fires of eternal damnation > > in multiuser hell ;-) I noticed you CCed the MetaCard list, which is a good thing, I guess, though they're getting dumped into the middle of the discussion. Here's the key part of my previous message, just to bring them up to speed: The long answer, and probably much more than you want to know, is that "the mouseClick" is really the problem here, not "the mouse". "the mouse" could in theory be done asynchronously. If this were changed you'd still have the performance issue to deal with (i.e., "repeat until" would never be as smooth as using mouseMove messages and would eventually cause the OS to start penalizing your app), but reliability wouldn't because this information can be queried directly from the OS on all platforms. You'd also be subject to the normal behavior of async functions (e.g., in HC, "the mouse" returns "down" if the user clicked down anytime between when the handler started running and when the function is called, whereas an async implementation would only return "down" if it was actually down when you made the call). The problem with "the mouseClick" is that of state management and event order: it has to wait for the mouse to go down and then back up. Worse, at least for HC compatibility, is that if you do something in a script that takes a few seconds and click twice in that interval, "the mouseClick" will return true *twice*. This means that it's necessary to maintain a queue of these mouse events and check the whole queue each time the function is called to see if there is both a mouseDown and a mouseUp message in it, and pull them out as a pair if so. And of course you can't just leave the rest of the events in the queue either, because some of them (like socket events and redraws) need to be handled independently of what the currently running handler is doing. Doing this cross-platform is horrendously complicated, and results in compromized reliability for *everything*, not just the mouseClick function. Which is why we want to (and plan to) remove this functionality, or at least substantially modify it to remove this queueing aspect (e.g., the mouseClick would return true only if you clicked down and up any time between the start of the handler and when you made the call, and once it returned true *all* state information would be tossed out so it wouldn't return true again until the user clicked again after the function returned true, even if they clicked multiple times before the first call). It'd also be good to discuss the topic of sync/async polling on the HC and SC mailing lists to get a sense of how aware people are of this issue (I just responded to one poster on the use-revolution list who wasn't aware of this behavior of the mouse function, though lord knows we got enough bug reports about this back when MetaCard did a simple async report). > Scott, I understand the problems of the OS penalty due to hogging the > computer with polling of mouse functions during a repeat, but there are > different kinds of software; in some cases, we may want to make software > that is supposed to be the only main application running on a computer, for > example, a game, a presentation, or an educational application with a lot of > animation. > > Often, the documentation may even advise users of these types of programs to > not run other applications unnecessarily at the same time for better > performance. With these types of applications, often you would be > ill-advised to run other major software at the same time anyway, not just > because of its effect on the other software, but also because of other > software's effect on it. Understood, and that's why we added the keysDown function, which is a much better way to do this kind of thing than using keyDown messages and the optionKey/commandKey/shiftKey functions. I guess all that remains is a async mouse polling function, but we never considered this necessary because using message is always possible (and always preferred) in this case. > For example, in one game project, I started off with the mouseMove message, > and then had to switch to send..in plus the mouseLoc (once per handler), > because mouseMove was not nearly responsive enough. (The object was always > moving toward the mouse, but at its own speed, not directly tied to the > mouse.) This was much more responsive. I can't see why this would be the case unless you're running on a very slow system, moving very large objects or a large number of objects, or maybe doing a lot of other stuff in the background (like running movies or animated GIFs). Polling with send .. in and the mouseLoc is one way around the problem, but in general this approach (let alone using "repeat until ...") will result in a *less* responsive application because a lot of extra work is being done compared with the optimal solution of just using the mouseMove messages. > There are comparable situations with the other functions. I have no problem > with the mouseClick going out. It's an obvious case. But I think it would be > terrible to remove the others functions which were mentioned. As Scott said, > it's using them with repeats that causes the problems. And the fact that they're synchronous now, though this is actually "fixed" for the optionKey/commandKey/shiftKey functions in 2.4.2, was fixed for the mouseLoc awhile back, and could easily be fixed for the mouse function. It is just the mouseClick that is hard to solve any other way. > So, first, can we be assured that these functions will still remain, at > least asynchronously, in the future? Otherwise, if the corresponding > messages don't work well enough for a certain task, we will be in a jam > someday. > > Secondly, using these functions synchronously allows much more convenient > scripting for testing, personal projects, students (as someone mentioned), > etc. Why not keep the functions synchronous, with the exception of > mouseClick which could be turned asynchronous or simply trashed, and leave > the responsibility of using them correctly up to the scripter? Sounds reasonable to me, but given the number of bug reports we've received on this issue, you and I may be in the minority. Regards, Scott > Curry Kenworthy ******************************************************** Scott Raney raney at metacard.com http://www.metacard.com MetaCard: You know, there's an easier way to do that... _______________________________________________ metacard mailing list metacard at lists.runrev.com http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/metacard From iansummerfield at btconnect.com Fri Feb 22 03:52:01 2002 From: iansummerfield at btconnect.com (Ian Summerfield) Date: Fri Feb 22 03:52:01 2002 Subject: Polling the mouse state In-Reply-To: <21E1358A-2728-11D6-9861-0003934902A2@tactilemedia.com> Message-ID: On 22/2/02 12:07 am, "Scott Rossi" scribed: > On Thursday, February 21, 2002, at 03:27 PM, Ken Norris (dialup) wrote: > >>>> Doesn't "grab" do what you want? I think it suspends other messages >>>> while >>>> the user is dragging and automatically exits when the user lets go of >>>> the >>>> mouse button. >>> >>> No, drag doesn't let me check whether the object has been dragged into >>> the >>> bounds of another while the dragging is still going on. >> ---------- >> I need to do the exact same thing in an eduware game stack. I'll be >> watching >> for the solutions while trying my own. > > Is this what you folks are trying to do? > > http://www.tactilemedia.com/download/ > > Regards, > Well sort of, but the messages are still being sent, I need to suspend all other events while the dragging takes place. There might be as many as 12 events pending. That's the bit I'm having trouble with. I don't know whether I might be able to save the pendingmessages into a global and restore them once the dragging is done. -i- From kevin at runrev.com Fri Feb 22 07:27:01 2002 From: kevin at runrev.com (Kevin Miller) Date: Fri Feb 22 07:27:01 2002 Subject: Rev Externals In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On 20/2/02 10:34 pm, Peter Reid wrote: > I've just downloaded the current Mac OS Classic and Mac OS X > externals from the rev web site and they provide a small number of > useful extensions. However, I can't see how I use a single Rev stack > and build standalones for BOTH Mac OS Classic and Mac OS X? You seem > to have to import the externals into your stack, but you can only do > this for the platform Rev is running on at the time. If you open a > Rev stack with externals for the other OS, then Rev crashes out. I > don't want to have to maintain two separate copies of the stack - one > for Mac OS Classic and one for Mac OS X, but it seems I have to?! I > can't see any way of building for both at the same time. > > Anyone done this? This will be sorted out out in 1.1.1 - you will be able to include these two with different Ids and the correct will be loaded. Kevin Kevin Miller Runtime Revolution Limited - Power to the Developer! Tel: +44 (0) 870 747 1165. Fax: +44 (0)1639 830 707. From kevin at runrev.com Fri Feb 22 07:27:23 2002 From: kevin at runrev.com (Kevin Miller) Date: Fri Feb 22 07:27:23 2002 Subject: Deprecated mouse functions In-Reply-To: <7DEF8C5F-2715-11D6-BEEB-000393598038@mac.com> Message-ID: On 21/2/02 9:53 pm, David Vaughan wrote: > It is good to receive Scott's list which I have not seen published before, > even including the newly un-deprecated (precated? apprecated?) key functions, > but I also strongly support Siva's view. I think it an important part of the > documentation that deprecated functions be mentioned as such in the Transcript > Dictionary, and a reference given to possible alternatives. At present, the > "See also" in the Dictionary entry for the deprecated mouseLoc makes no > reference at all to the preferred mouseMove, nor does that for mouseH refer to > mousemoveH, so how is anyone not already familiar with the language supposed > to find the preferred functions, especially if they come from xTalk and are > already comfortable with the wrong ways? Indeed - recommendations on how to use these will be included. Kevin Kevin Miller Runtime Revolution Limited - Power to the Developer! Tel: +44 (0) 870 747 1165. Fax: +44 (0)1639 830 707. From kevin at runrev.com Fri Feb 22 07:27:34 2002 From: kevin at runrev.com (Kevin Miller) Date: Fri Feb 22 07:27:34 2002 Subject: Do's and Dont's In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On 21/2/02 10:21 pm, Geoff Canyon wrote: >> Is this official or just what users are finding temperamental? If they are >> deprecated then under what circumstances? I may have to write one extremely >> simple and 100% reliable piece of C code to test the state of the mouse >> button for my code and compile it as an external, I think I'll call it >> "themouse"! After all, in the world of C it's quite straight forward, one >> line I expect. > > That list was originally posted by Scott Raney. It doesn't get any more > "official" than that. Well, such posts do have a tendency to become official features ;-) But it is worth noting that an actual announcement from one of the Runtime staff would be considered more official on this list, and no such announcement regarding this set of features has been made. Kind regards, Kevin Kevin Miller Runtime Revolution Limited - Power to the Developer! Tel: +44 (0) 870 747 1165. Fax: +44 (0)1639 830 707. From dcragg at lacscentre.co.uk Fri Feb 22 09:05:01 2002 From: dcragg at lacscentre.co.uk (Dave Cragg) Date: Fri Feb 22 09:05:01 2002 Subject: Deprecated mouse functions In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: At 10:47 am -0700 20/2/02, Scott Raney wrote: >Yes. The full list of functions to avoid because they are deprecated is: >the mouse >the mouseClick >the mouseH >the mouseV >the mouseLoc >the optionKey >the commandKey >the controlKey I've nothing against preventing users from polling the mouse and other bad habits, but I'm wondering if deprecating the mouseLoc, mouseH, and mouseV functions leaves behind ways to cover all needs. mouseMove lets us get the mouse coordinates from the arguments. The clickLoc function gives the coordinates of where the mouse went down (I think), but how do we get the coordinates of where the mouse is released? I've never needed this myself, but I imagine there are legitimate uses for it. What would be nice is having the mouse coordinates passed as additional arguments to mouseDown, mouseUp and mouseRelease. Cheers Dave Cragg (currently on idle) From JohnRule at aol.com Fri Feb 22 09:06:01 2002 From: JohnRule at aol.com (JohnRule at aol.com) Date: Fri Feb 22 09:06:01 2002 Subject: Pat on the back Message-ID: <10f.ca5caf3.29a7a992@aol.com> >> Doing this cross-platform is horrendously complicated, and >> results in compromized reliability for *everything*, (assuming this was from the MetaCard author) But I am so glad you do it! I'm buying you that virtual beer right now...cheers! Everybody! "for he's a jolly good fellow, for he's a jolly good fellow..." ;-) JR From jphurley at jps.net Fri Feb 22 09:25:01 2002 From: jphurley at jps.net (Jim Hurley) Date: Fri Feb 22 09:25:01 2002 Subject: Drawing speed In-Reply-To: <200202212002.PAA24221@www.runrev.com> References: <200202212002.PAA24221@www.runrev.com> Message-ID: Jim Hurley wrote: > > > There appears to be no remedy in the offing to the speed problem. Scott Rainey wrote: >Actually the current release is pretty close to HC in performance, >the primary remaining difference being due to running in color vs >black and white (anywhere from 8 to 32 times as much data to move >around, you know). I concede the difficulties in speedily running color vs. black and white, and the improvement in the current release is much appreciated. However there remains a considerable gap between MC/RR and HC. For example, the following script draws concentric boxes of ever decreasing size. on mouseUp clean put 100 into a put 300 into b put 2 into da choose the line tool put the ticks into startTime repeat 50 --draw boxes of ever decreasing size drag from a,a to b,a drag from b,a to b,b drag from b,b to a,b drag from a,b to a,a add da to a subtract da from b end repeat put the ticks - startTime into field 1 choose the browse tool end mouseUp on clean repeat until the number of images = 0 delete image 1 end repeat end clean This script takes 265 ticks on average in RR and 30 ticks in HC on cards of identical size. (I realize that this can be done more efficiently with the rectangle tool and that a graphic would be faster than an image. My purpose was to measure the drag speed. ) The discrepancy would be less in Windows. There is no limit to the greedy demands which we, the users, put on Scott and the development team. In my case, to properly implement Turtle Graphics, I hunger for a speedy monochromatic drawing mode. Jim Hurley From tereza at califex.com Fri Feb 22 10:43:01 2002 From: tereza at califex.com (Tereza Snyder) Date: Fri Feb 22 10:43:01 2002 Subject: Deprecated mouse functions In-Reply-To: Message-ID: on 02.22.02 08:02 AM, Dave Cragg wrote: > > What would be nice is having the mouse coordinates passed as > additional arguments to mouseDown, mouseUp and mouseRelease. I heartily second this motion! Any others? tereza . . .. ... ..... ACT AGAINST ENTROPY! ..... ... .. . . From harrison at all-auctions.com Fri Feb 22 11:17:01 2002 From: harrison at all-auctions.com (Richard Harrison) Date: Fri Feb 22 11:17:01 2002 Subject: Unique Macintosh Identification In-Reply-To: Message-ID: on 2/21/2002 3:20 PM, Ian Summerfield at iansummerfield at btconnect.com wrote: > I don't know the answer but I do not that few things are unique in the Mac, > the serial number hasn't been in ROM for long, it's not in my B&W 450Mhz. > So I would suggest you investigate getting the Ethernet address, that is > unique and Mac's have had Ethernet built in since the 1950's! > > -i- Hi there, The hardcoded Ethernet address of the system's ethernet card does sound like the way to go. Now does anyone have a good idea of how to retrieve this information easily? AppleScript perhaps? Thanks, Rick Harrison From rcozens at pon.net Fri Feb 22 11:22:01 2002 From: rcozens at pon.net (Rob Cozens) Date: Fri Feb 22 11:22:01 2002 Subject: Unique Macintosh Identification In-Reply-To: <00e601c1bb09$d26ad100$7c00a8c0@mckinley.dom> References: Message-ID: >Thanks, Roger. Unfortunately it means I'd need to launch another app and >then make it quit just to get the serial number. Perhaps there's a gestalt >reference out there? Then I could use a gestalt XCMD or equivalent... Hi Ken, I asked the List for a gestalt reference when I posted the AppleScript; but no one responded. For $200 (last I checked) Apple tech support will address a limited number of technical questions (4?); but I didn't want the info bad enough to shell out the $$. For completeness, here is the final AppleScript: on getSerial() tell application "Apple System Profiler" run copy SerialNumber to myNumber close window 1 end tell return myNumber end getSerial I'm only checking the serial # once on preOpen; so the delay to launch AppleScript doesn't come into play once the user is in the stack. BTW, if you do find a gestalt reference: 1. I'd like to know what it is. 2. You'll need different externals for OS<10 & OSX whereas one AppleScript works on both Mac platforms. PS: I told myself twice to ignore this, but I cant help comment: >> I may have to write one extremely >> simple and 100% reliable piece of C code to test the state of the mouse >> button for my code and compile it as an external, I think I'll call it >> "themouse"! After all, in the world of C it's quite straight forward, one >> line I expect. > Do you not count variable declaration, external "glue", parameter references when counting lines of C code. From my (dated & limited) experience, one can't write anything useful in C in lass than half a page. :{~) Rob Cozens CCW, Serendipity Software Company "And I, which was two fooles, do so grow three; Who are a little wise, the best fooles bee." from "The Triple Foole" by John Donne (1572-1631) From michael at runrev.com Fri Feb 22 11:26:01 2002 From: michael at runrev.com (Michael Fisher) Date: Fri Feb 22 11:26:01 2002 Subject: Revoluionn hangs on the splash screen References: <3C7576CB.3090608@onetel.net.uk> Message-ID: <004e01c1bbbd$06e3f3e0$0c01020a@mike1> Russell Campbell worte: > I am using a new instalation of Red Hat 7.2 and have followed the > instructions, have downloaded both files (revolutionenvironment.tgz & > Linux.gz) Twice just to make sure that they were not corrupted. Any > sugestions? We've had reports of this before and it has turned out simply that people aren't waiting long enough for Revolution to load properly. (It takes a little longer to load on Linux than on other platforms). Any chance this could be the problem? The other thing you could try is the RPM at: Cheers, Michael -- Michael Fisher Runtime Revolution Ltd - Power to the Developer! Tel: +44 (0)870 747 1165 Fax: +44 (0)1639 830 707 From JAMES.G.YATES at saic.com Fri Feb 22 11:29:01 2002 From: JAMES.G.YATES at saic.com (Yates, Glen) Date: Fri Feb 22 11:29:01 2002 Subject: Drawing speed Message-ID: <33F0B58BF432D211B72200805FEFAAD905A5A3@hun-its-exs01.saic.com> Interesting little speed test, I get 102 ticks in MC on a 933MHz Pentium 3, and 161 ticks on a 400MHz B&W G3 (with Retrospect running in the background). Try running in thousands of colors instead of millions, and you should see a good speed increase from your 265 ticks. -Glen Yates Jim Hurley wrote: >I concede the difficulties in speedily running color vs. black and >white, and the improvement in the current release is much >appreciated. However there remains a considerable gap between MC/RR >and HC. For example, the following script draws concentric boxes of >ever decreasing size. <<>> >This script takes 265 ticks on average in RR and 30 ticks in HC on >cards of identical size. (I realize that this can be done more >efficiently with the rectangle tool and that a graphic would be >faster than an image. My purpose was to measure the drag speed. ) >The discrepancy would be less in Windows. From kray at sonsothunder.com Fri Feb 22 12:09:01 2002 From: kray at sonsothunder.com (Ken Ray) Date: Fri Feb 22 12:09:01 2002 Subject: Unique Macintosh Identification (Follow-Up) Message-ID: <009801c1bbc3$0d0fca40$7c00a8c0@mckinley.dom> (Cross-posted to MC list) Hey, everyone: Here is what I ended up doing that not only retrieves the MAC Address, but also solves a reported problem of being unable to quit Apple System Profiler: In order to get the MAC Address from Apple System Profiler, you first need to know that ASP refers to this as the "AppleTalk Address", and that it returns the address in AppleScript's list format (ex: {"00.0a.27.d6.9d.06"}). Secondly, you need to know where ASP *is*, otherwise you'll get the dreaded "Please locate Apple System Profiler:" dialog box. I discovered that if you can let MC locate it (through whatever means you need - directories(), files(), etc.), you need to make sure that the default directory is set to the location of ASP, otherwise you'll get the "Please locate:" box. On my Mac (and I believe most modern OS8-9 Macs), ASP is located in the Apple Menu Items folder. So here's the script (assuming MC has found it in the Apple Menu Items folder): function GetMACAddress local tResult set the directory to specialFolderPath("apple") put "tell application" && quote & "Apple System Profiler" & quote & cr & \ "get appletalk address" & cr & "end tell" into getMACScript put "tell application" && quote & "Apple System Profiler" & quote & cr & \ "close window" && quote & "Apple System Profiler" & quote & cr & "end tell" into quitASPScript set the directory to specialFolderPath("apple") do getMACScript as AppleScript put the result into retVal do quitASPScript as AppleScript replace "{" with "" in retVal replace "}" with "" in retVal replace quote with "" in retVal return retVal end GetMACAddress Note that although you can't send "quit" to ASP, you CAN say "close window 'Apple System Profiler'" and it does the same thing! Enjoy! Ken Ray Sons of Thunder Software Email: kray at sonsothunder.com Web Site: http://www.sonsothunder.com/ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From rcozens at pon.net Fri Feb 22 12:27:01 2002 From: rcozens at pon.net (Rob Cozens) Date: Fri Feb 22 12:27:01 2002 Subject: My Entry for the RR Wish List Message-ID: Hi All, In the aftermath of indulging my impulse to respond to "it should only take one line in C", I got to thinking how much CompileIt helped me to expand my HyperTalk applications' capabilities and essentially invoke ToolBox commands & functions from within HyperTalk. I took out Danny Goodman's HyperCard Developers Guide and compared the C & Pascal externals source code with the CompileIt scripts I wrote to perform the same function or invoke the same ToolBox object. IMFO, in terms of relative programmer efficiency, programming in xTalk/CompileIt is to programming in C as programming in C is to programming in assembler. My frustration with assembler came very quickly when I realized I was typing half a page of instructions to accomplish something I could do in one line of FORTRAN or PL/1. And so it was with C once I learned HyperTalk. Even in Pascal, which I much prefer to C, the overhead involved in writing externals was such I tried to avoid using them. Once I had CompileIt, I was anxious to write my next external, and stopped looking for workarounds to avoid them. Before Revolution, CompileIt was my second-most important application behind HyperCard. MC/RR were designed to minimize the need for externals, and I'm going into my redesign with the goal of eliminating all platform-specific aspects of OenoLog. However, it appears from the List traffic that many people still find the need for externals. I would be willing to pay a seperate license fee for a tool that would allow me to create externals scripted in Transcript. Rob Cozens, CCW "Where but America can the person who lost the popular vote become President without a coup?" From jacque at hyperactivesw.com Fri Feb 22 12:32:00 2002 From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (Jacqueline Landman Gay) Date: Fri Feb 22 12:32:00 2002 Subject: use-revolution digest, Vol 1 #215 - 12 msgs In-Reply-To: <200202221701.MAA16897@www.runrev.com> Message-ID: On Friday, February 22, 2002, at 11:01 AM, use-revolution- request at lists.runrev.com wrote: > This script takes 265 ticks on average in RR and 30 ticks in HC on > cards of identical size. (I realize that this can be done more > efficiently with the rectangle tool and that a graphic would be > faster than an image. My purpose was to measure the drag speed. ) > The dragspeed can be set. MetaCard's default speed may not be equivalent to HyperCard's default speed. It can also be set in HyperCard, so making sure they are both the same before doing the test would give the most valid results. -- Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com From mark_mitchell at kmug.org Fri Feb 22 12:35:01 2002 From: mark_mitchell at kmug.org (Mark Mitchell) Date: Fri Feb 22 12:35:01 2002 Subject: entropy In-Reply-To: <200202221701.MAA16888@www.runrev.com> References: <200202221701.MAA16888@www.runrev.com> Message-ID: Tereza writes: . . .. ... ..... ACT AGAINST ENTROPY! ..... .. No, no! said he. Without entropy where would we be? all the sun's energy might just stay at the sun and that ain't no fun From jphurley at jps.net Fri Feb 22 13:08:01 2002 From: jphurley at jps.net (Jim Hurley) Date: Fri Feb 22 13:08:01 2002 Subject: Drawing speed Message-ID: Glen Yates wrote: > >Interesting little speed test, I get 102 ticks in MC on a 933MHz Pentium 3, >and 161 ticks on a 400MHz B&W G3 (with Retrospect running in the >background). > >Try running in thousands of colors instead of millions, and you should see a >good speed increase from your 265 ticks. > >-Glen Yates Thanks for the comparisons. Actually I *am* running in thousands of colors. Those test were made on a rather slow 233 MHz G3 PowerBook. But I used it for both the RR and HC tests. Both applications are quicker on my desktop G3 (350 MHz). HC takes 11 ticks to draw the figure and RR 160 ticks. About the same as yours in MC. In any event, a big difference between MC and HC. There is an evolutionary moral here: Color does not come without a price. Dogs see much better in the dark than we do. They are color blind however. We see glorious color but are nearly blind in the dark. Life is full of tradeoffs. -- Jim Hurley From PERPHARMACEUTIC at aol.com Fri Feb 22 13:43:01 2002 From: PERPHARMACEUTIC at aol.com (PERPHARMACEUTIC at aol.com) Date: Fri Feb 22 13:43:01 2002 Subject: tools and commands relating to the web Message-ID: <126.c37f902.29a7ea9d@aol.com> I am pretty new at this programming thing, so forgive me these are stupid questions. I want to build a simple browser, however I am a bit confused as I cannot seem to find the right tools or commands to do so. For instance: in visual basic there is a internet icon in the tools palette that when chosen creates the browser display field. In Rev. there are only various text fields (i.e., list, scrolling list, etc.) on the tools palette, I don't see anything that would create a browser display field. How can I accomplish this. Also, in visual basic there are commands/methods: navigate, refresh, etc. that are used as comman browser methods. I cannot figure out what commands/methods in Rev. to use to accomplish these things. Thanks in advance Steve -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From alain.vezina at logilangue.com Fri Feb 22 14:10:01 2002 From: alain.vezina at logilangue.com (alain.vezina%logilangue.com) Date: Fri Feb 22 14:10:01 2002 Subject: HELP field behavior Message-ID: <3C76C12B.E946C361@logilangue.com> It is courious that I can do a lot of things within the messagebox and it doesn't works when I include the same command or function in a handler. For example, I select a line in a scroling locked field with listBehavior turned to true, using arrow key. I type PUT THE HILITEDLINE OF FIELD "MaList" and the result is the number of the hilited line. If I type the same in a handler with onEnterInField, the result I get in my variable is not an integer, it is this string: hilitedLine. So I cant refer to the line by its number. I can refer to a number's line if I click on a line with the mouse. Is there any solution? Thanks Alain Vezina Logilangue international -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From scott at tactilemedia.com Fri Feb 22 14:13:01 2002 From: scott at tactilemedia.com (Scott Rossi) Date: Fri Feb 22 14:13:01 2002 Subject: Drawing speed In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Friday, February 22, 2002, at 06:22 AM, Jim Hurley wrote: > I concede the difficulties in speedily running color vs. black and > white, and the improvement in the current release is much appreciated. > However there remains a considerable gap between MC/RR and HC. For > example, the following script draws concentric boxes of ever decreasing > size. > > on mouseUp > clean > put 100 into a > put 300 into b > put 2 into da > choose the line tool > put the ticks into startTime > repeat 50 --draw boxes of ever decreasing size > drag from a,a to b,a > drag from b,a to b,b > drag from b,b to a,b > drag from a,b to a,a > add da to a > subtract da from b > end repeat > put the ticks - startTime into field 1 > choose the browse tool > end mouseUp > > on clean > repeat until the number of images = 0 > delete image 1 > end repeat > end clean > > This script takes 265 ticks on average in RR and 30 ticks in HC on > cards of identical size. (I realize that this can be done more > efficiently with the rectangle tool and that a graphic would be faster > than an image. My purpose was to measure the drag speed. ) The > discrepancy would be less in Windows. Since I'm fairly entrenched in graphics work, this post caught my eye. One thing you need to keep in mind with MC/REV is that usually, not always, but usually there are similar ways to achieve what you've done before using alternate methods. For example, I ran the above script and timed a rough average of 111 ticks. Then instead of choosing the line tool, I chose the pencil tool, and drawing time was reduced to 37 ticks. Adding a "lock screen" reduced the overall time to 9 ticks -- virtually immediate. > In my case, to properly implement Turtle Graphics, I hunger for a > speedy monochromatic drawing mode. I seem to recall my experience in Turtle Graphics (around 20 years ago!) involving the creation of a list of points that the "Turtle" then rendered by dragging from point to point, with pen up and pen down instructions. I would imagine the above mentioned pencil tool will achieve what you need with no time penalty. And also you get the benefit of color (back in those days the only screen color was phosphorescent green...). Hope this helps. Regards, Scott Rossi Creative Director, Tactile Media scott at tactilemedia.com http://www.tactilemedia.com From attgenmail at moago.org Fri Feb 22 14:22:01 2002 From: attgenmail at moago.org (J. Scott Saults) Date: Fri Feb 22 14:22:01 2002 Subject: Polling the mouse In-Reply-To: <200202220351.WAA04172@www.runrev.com> References: <200202220351.WAA04172@www.runrev.com> Message-ID: At 10:51 PM -0500 2/21/02, Scott Raney wrote: >I didn't check SC, but HC definitely does not work the way you say. Try it >yourself and see. Put the following script in a button, then click to >run it and click again before the repeats finish (you may need to >adjust the count depending on the speed of your system): >on mouseUp > get 0 > repeat for 10000 times > add 1 to it > end repeat > put the mouse >end mouseUp > >It's compatibility at that level that's hard to do, convenient as it >might be for some things. > Regards, Scott Evidently, I misunderstood your original post. I afraid I don't get the point of this post or script, either. I'm sorry to be so dense. It seems to me, in HC, that your script calls the mouse function once, after the repeat loop has finished its 10000 iterations. If the mouse button is down when that occurs, then "down" appears in the message box. If the mouse button is up at that moment, then "up" appears in the message box. If I press the mouse while the loop is still being executed, but then release it before the loop is finished, then "up" appears in the message box. This is what I expect, and this seems to be what happens. If, on the other hand, "put the mouse" is executed WITHIN the loop (below), then "down" appears in the message box whenever the mouse is being pressed, and "up" appears whenever it is not being pressed, until the repeated put's have ended. on mouseUp repeat for 10000 times add 1 to it put the mouse end repeat end mouseUp So, it seems to me that HyperCard IS returning the actual state of the mouse button, up or down, whenever the mouse function is called within the handler. This is all I meant to say. Is this not true? Obviously, either I've not expressed myself clearly, or I've misunderstood the point of this debate, or both. I certainly apologize for adding my confusion to this discussion. J. Scott Saults From raney at metacard.com Fri Feb 22 14:53:01 2002 From: raney at metacard.com (Scott Raney) Date: Fri Feb 22 14:53:01 2002 Subject: Drawing speed In-Reply-To: <200202221701.MAA16897@www.runrev.com> Message-ID: On Fri, 22 Feb 2002 Jim Hurley wrote: > Subject: Drawing speed > Reply-To: use-revolution at lists.runrev.com > > > Jim Hurley wrote: > > > > > There appears to be no remedy in the offing to the speed problem. > > Scott Rainey wrote: > > >Actually the current release is pretty close to HC in performance, > >the primary remaining difference being due to running in color vs > >black and white (anywhere from 8 to 32 times as much data to move > >around, you know). > > I concede the difficulties in speedily running color vs. black and > white, and the improvement in the current release is much > appreciated. However there remains a considerable gap between MC/RR > and HC. For example, the following script draws concentric boxes of > ever decreasing size. > > on mouseUp > clean > put 100 into a > put 300 into b > put 2 into da > choose the line tool > put the ticks into startTime > repeat 50 --draw boxes of ever decreasing size > drag from a,a to b,a > drag from b,a to b,b > drag from b,b to a,b > drag from a,b to a,a > add da to a > subtract da from b > end repeat > put the ticks - startTime into field 1 > choose the browse tool > end mouseUp > > on clean > repeat until the number of images = 0 > delete image 1 > end repeat > end clean > > This script takes 265 ticks on average in RR and 30 ticks in HC on > cards of identical size. Hmm, looks to be about a factor of 8, which is pretty good considering there's about 32 times as much data being moved around (assuming you're running in "millions" screen depth). Further confirmation that the limit is just with the data size is to increase (or decrease) the size of the window or image: doubling it in width and height increases the time by just about a factor of 4, demonstrating that all the time is in moving the bits around. > (I realize that this can be done more > efficiently with the rectangle tool and that a graphic would be > faster than an image. My purpose was to measure the drag speed. ) > The discrepancy would be less in Windows. Much less, actually. I get 16 ticks on my 733MHz PIII. We don't know why masked image drawing is so slow on MacOS (hell, it's slow even compared with UNIX/X11 which doesn't even *have* a masked image drawing primitive and it has to be done with 3 separate operations there), but unfortunately there's not a damned thing we can do about it. > There is no limit to the greedy demands which we, the users, put on > Scott and the development team. In my case, to properly implement > Turtle Graphics, I hunger for a speedy monochromatic drawing mode. Unfortunately that's not the business we're in, and I doubt even that would be a satisfactory solution to the problem even if we were (i.e., even the various Logo implementations all support color now). But this is the perfect situation in which to use an external. You could probably get 2 orders of magnitude better performance if you just drew directly to the window instead of having everything buffered like painting in HC and MC require. You do lose the ability to overlay images on buttons and fields, persistence, and the ability to edit the bits you've previously drawn, but fortunately none of these things are required for turtle graphics. You might try M. Uli Kusterer's (Witness.of.TeachText at gmx.net) xDraw package, for example, or ask him if he has other suggestions for how best to do this. Regards, Scott > Jim Hurley ******************************************************** Scott Raney raney at metacard.com http://www.metacard.com MetaCard: You know, there's an easier way to do that... From katir at hindu.org Fri Feb 22 15:09:01 2002 From: katir at hindu.org (Sivakatirswami) Date: Fri Feb 22 15:09:01 2002 Subject: Using Profile Manager--How? Message-ID: Sorry if this has been asked and answered I am trying to get some stacks to look like mac os 9 or mac os x. Profile manager seems to be the way to do this, but it doesn't work as expected. Is there an easy way to make all the buttons and all the standard fields look "mac-like"? Going through the Profile Manager Tutorial I am able to create a profile for single button, and switch between the default "master" and the newly named profile... the one button behaves properly. But then there doesn't seem to be an easy way to apply this globally: the pull down menu to apply to the card and it's objects only works on the one button itself, not all the buttons on the card.... selecting all the buttons and the profile of the one button is dimmed. write a repeat loop to apply the profile to each button by number and the result was again that only the button that had the profile was changed to match the profile... What am I doing wrong? I was thinking it should be as easy as importing a "skin" and applying it the stack, but then, obviously one would have to have that profile/set of profiles already at hand... does one exist? Thanks! Hinduism Today Sivakatirswami Editor's Assistant/Production Manager katir at hindu.org www.HinduismToday.com, www.HimalayanAcademy.com, www.Gurudeva.org, www.hindu.org Read The Master Course Lesson of the Day at http://www.gurudeva.org/lesson.shtml From kray at sonsothunder.com Fri Feb 22 15:12:06 2002 From: kray at sonsothunder.com (Ken Ray) Date: Fri Feb 22 15:12:06 2002 Subject: Unique Macintosh Identification (Follow-Up) Message-ID: <00f401c1bbdc$955465a0$7c00a8c0@mckinley.dom> Awesome find, MisterX! After a little testing and tweaking (the 'findstr' is not "MAC" but "Physical Address", and 'findstr' is not supported on Win 9x), here's a replacement CROSS-PLATFORM function. Note that IPCONFIG.EXE exists only on Windows 98 and higher (including XP), but if you can include IPCONFIG.EXE in your delivery (CD/download/etc.), you can run it on Windows 95 and it will work just fine. (I don't know if Microsoft has an issue with distributing this... you should check it out. function GetMACAddress local retVal switch (the platform) case "MacOS" set the directory to specialFolderPath("apple") put "tell application" && quote & "Apple System Profiler" & quote & cr & \ "get appletalk address" & cr & "end tell" into getMACScript put "tell application" && quote & "Apple System Profiler" & quote & cr & \ "close window" && quote & "Apple System Profiler" & quote & cr & "end tell" into quitASPScript set the directory to specialFolderPath("apple") do getMACScript as AppleScript put the result into retVal do quitASPScript as AppleScript replace "{" with "" in retVal replace "}" with "" in retVal replace quote with "" in retVal break case "Win32" put (there is a file (specialFolderPath("system") & "/IPCONFIG.EXE")) into winExists put (there is a file (specialFolderPath("system") & "/SYSTEM32/IPCONFIG.EXE")) into sys32Exists if winExists or sys32Exists then set the hideConsoleWindows to true put shell("ipconfig /all") into temp get matchText(temp,"Physical Address. . . . . . . . . : ([A-Z0-9-]*)",retVal) else return "IPCONFIG not found" end if break end switch return retVal end GetMACAddress Thanks, everyone! Ken Ray Sons of Thunder Software Email: kray at sonsothunder.com Web Site: http://www.sonsothunder.com/ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From raney at metacard.com Fri Feb 22 15:25:01 2002 From: raney at metacard.com (Scott Raney) Date: Fri Feb 22 15:25:01 2002 Subject: Polling the mouse In-Reply-To: <200202221954.OAA23306@www.runrev.com> Message-ID: On Fri, 22 Feb 2002 "J. Scott Saults" wrote: > > At 10:51 PM -0500 2/21/02, Scott Raney wrote: > >I didn't check SC, but HC definitely does not work the way you say. Try it > >yourself and see. Put the following script in a button, then click to > >run it and click again before the repeats finish (you may need to > >adjust the count depending on the speed of your system): > >on mouseUp > > get 0 > > repeat for 10000 times > > add 1 to it > > end repeat > > put the mouse > >end mouseUp > > > >It's compatibility at that level that's hard to do, convenient as it > >might be for some things. > > Regards, > Scott > > Evidently, I misunderstood your original post. I afraid I don't > get the point of this post or script, either. I'm sorry to be so > dense. It seems to me, in HC, that your script calls the mouse > function once, after the repeat loop has finished its 10000 > iterations. If the mouse button is down when that occurs, then "down" > appears in the message box. If the mouse button is up at that > moment, then "up" appears in the message box. If I press the mouse > while the loop is still being executed, but then release it before > the loop is finished, then "up" appears in the message box. But did you actually try this? It *doesn't* work that way in either MC or HC now. If you don't see it, try increasing the loop count (you may need to at one zero for HC, and about 3 in MC/RR ;-) My real question is, given that you're confused about this, how many other people must be, and if a lot, does this behavior really need to be preserved? Regards, Scott > J. Scott Saults ******************************************************** Scott Raney raney at metacard.com http://www.metacard.com MetaCard: You know, there's an easier way to do that... From cyberscope at home.com Fri Feb 22 15:27:01 2002 From: cyberscope at home.com (Gene Kennedy) Date: Fri Feb 22 15:27:01 2002 Subject: use-revolution digest, Vol 1 #216 - 10 msgs References: <200202221954.OAA23306@www.runrev.com> Message-ID: <3C76A8BD.E66DEAC7@home.com> Rob Cozens, CCW wrote: > Message: 2 > Date: Fri, 22 Feb 2002 09:23:26 -0800 > To: use-revolution at lists.runrev.com > From: Rob Cozens > Subject: My Entry for the RR Wish List > Reply-To: use-revolution at lists.runrev.com > find the need for externals. > > I would be willing to pay a seperate license fee for a tool that would > allow me to create externals scripted in Transcript. I too would be interested in such a tool. Gene Kennedy From kray at sonsothunder.com Fri Feb 22 15:35:01 2002 From: kray at sonsothunder.com (Ken Ray) Date: Fri Feb 22 15:35:01 2002 Subject: Unique Macintosh Identification (Follow-Up) Message-ID: <00f401c1bbdc$955465a0$7c00a8c0@mckinley.dom> Awesome find, MisterX! After a little testing and tweaking (the 'findstr' is not "MAC" but "Physical Address", and 'findstr' is not supported on Win 9x), here's a replacement CROSS-PLATFORM function. Note that IPCONFIG.EXE exists only on Windows 98 and higher (including XP), but if you can include IPCONFIG.EXE in your delivery (CD/download/etc.), you can run it on Windows 95 and it will work just fine. (I don't know if Microsoft has an issue with distributing this... you should check it out. function GetMACAddress local retVal switch (the platform) case "MacOS" set the directory to specialFolderPath("apple") put "tell application" && quote & "Apple System Profiler" & quote & cr & \ "get appletalk address" & cr & "end tell" into getMACScript put "tell application" && quote & "Apple System Profiler" & quote & cr & \ "close window" && quote & "Apple System Profiler" & quote & cr & "end tell" into quitASPScript set the directory to specialFolderPath("apple") do getMACScript as AppleScript put the result into retVal do quitASPScript as AppleScript replace "{" with "" in retVal replace "}" with "" in retVal replace quote with "" in retVal break case "Win32" put (there is a file (specialFolderPath("system") & "/IPCONFIG.EXE")) into winExists put (there is a file (specialFolderPath("system") & "/SYSTEM32/IPCONFIG.EXE")) into sys32Exists if winExists or sys32Exists then set the hideConsoleWindows to true put shell("ipconfig /all") into temp get matchText(temp,"Physical Address. . . . . . . . . : ([A-Z0-9-]*)",retVal) else return "IPCONFIG not found" end if break end switch return retVal end GetMACAddress Thanks, everyone! Ken Ray Sons of Thunder Software Email: kray at sonsothunder.com Web Site: http://www.sonsothunder.com/ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From ambassador at FourthWorld.com Fri Feb 22 16:09:00 2002 From: ambassador at FourthWorld.com (Richard Gaskin) Date: Fri Feb 22 16:09:00 2002 Subject: My Entry for the RR Wish List In-Reply-To: <200202221954.OAA23306@www.runrev.com> Message-ID: Boonter Rob Cozens adds these bahl harpins to the tidrick: > IMFO, in terms of relative programmer efficiency, programming in > xTalk/CompileIt is to programming in C as programming in C is to > programming in assembler. My frustration with assembler came very quickly > when I realized I was typing half a page of instructions to accomplish > something I could do in one line of FORTRAN or PL/1. And so it was with C > once I learned HyperTalk. Even in Pascal, which I much prefer to C, the > overhead involved in writing externals was such I tried to avoid using > them. Once I had CompileIt, I was anxious to write my next external, and > stopped looking for workarounds to avoid them. Before Revolution, > CompileIt was my second-most important application behind HyperCard. > > MC/RR were designed to minimize the need for externals, and I'm going into > my redesign with the goal of eliminating all platform-specific aspects of > OenoLog. However, it appears from the List traffic that many people still > find the need for externals. > > I would be willing to pay a seperate license fee for a tool that would > allow me to create externals scripted in Transcript. It would nifty as all get-out, but I'm wondering if there might be a more Toolbook-like solution instead. In Toolbook, the downside of the language is that you must declare variable types. The upside of this is that typing is the biggest obstacle to making direct OS calls. So in Toolbook, with both typed vars and a Rev-like precompilation when a script is closed, you can make calls directly to the Win API. For a project I worked on once we were able to make the equivalent of Mark Hanrek's RadWindows in just three lines of OpenScript. While there are some benefits to true compilation for externals, in my experience the number of cases where such things are needed are relatively few. For example, after porting a few dozen projects, ranging from very simply single-window things like MetaBench (also available as HyperBench and SuperBench at our FTP site) to very complex systems with dozens of windows, hundreds and cards, sub-sub-menus and database access, I've rewritten more than two dozen XCMDs and XFCNs in native Transcript/MetaTalk with no noticeable degradation in performance (measurable, but not subjectively noticeable). The only externals I've ever retained were platform-specific (Tuviah wrote a wonderful backdrop external that let's Windows users retain access to the Start bar, and we use his Text-to-Speech externals in Brian Thomas' upcoming "If Monks Had Macs" CD), and of course the great Valentina external for access to that nifty DB engine. Everything else, from text processing to specialized dialogs, have all been implemented in native Transcript. Since it seems to be the vertical platform-specific stuff where we need the most help, it may bring us the biggest bang for the buck to have some means of making OS calls directly in the language. We'd have to type our vars, but that's a small price to pay for all that flexibility. Ken Ray's been kicking around some ideas along these lines, and hopefully there's a way to incorporate some if his ideas into a future release. -- Richard Gaskin Fourth World Media Corporation Custom Software and Web Development for All Major Platforms Developer of WebMerge 1.9: Publish any Database on Any Site ___________________________________________________________ Ambassador at FourthWorld.com http://www.FourthWorld.com Tel: 323-225-3717 AIM: FourthWorldInc From devin_asay at byu.edu Fri Feb 22 16:48:01 2002 From: devin_asay at byu.edu (Devin Asay) Date: Fri Feb 22 16:48:01 2002 Subject: tools and commands relating to the web In-Reply-To: <126.c37f902.29a7ea9d@aol.com> References: <126.c37f902.29a7ea9d@aol.com> Message-ID: At 1:40 PM -0500 2/22/02, PERPHARMACEUTIC at aol.com wrote: >I am pretty new at this programming thing, so forgive me these are >stupid questions. I want to build a simple browser, however I am a >bit confused as I cannot seem to find the right tools or commands to >do so. >For instance: in visual basic there is a internet icon in the tools >palette that when chosen creates the browser display field. In Rev. >there are only various text fields (i.e., list, scrolling list, >etc.) on the tools palette, I don't see anything that would create a >browser display field. How can I accomplish this. > >Also, in visual basic there are commands/methods: navigate, refresh, >etc. that are used as comman browser methods. I cannot figure out >what commands/methods in Rev. to use to accomplish these things. Hi Steve, In fact Rev has a very rich set of tools for doing internet things, including building a simple browser. It's just that they are not obvious without a little digging. I just went through this in my Revolution class. If you're interested, take a peek at my class web site at http://hlrclab.byu.edu/classes/CHum381/ Click on the Lecture notes link and look for "Revolution and the Internet" link. I have summarized most of the commands that have to do with web and internet capabilities of Revolution there. In addition to this, look at the Transcript Dictionary entry for "link" style text and check the "see also" popup for related commands and functions that allow you to check links downloaded with html text. BTW, if anyone happens to look at my web site and sees anything I got wrong or left out, drop me a note. Devin -- Devin Asay Humanities Research Center Brigham Young University From gcanyon at inspiredlogic.com Fri Feb 22 17:49:01 2002 From: gcanyon at inspiredlogic.com (Geoff Canyon) Date: Fri Feb 22 17:49:01 2002 Subject: Polling the mouse In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: At 1:22 PM -0700 2/22/02, Scott Raney wrote: >But did you actually try this? It *doesn't* work that way in either >MC or HC now. If you don't see it, try increasing the loop count (you >may need to at one zero for HC, and about 3 in MC/RR ;-) Maybe this script will make it clearer: on mouseUp repeat with i = 1000 down to 1 put i end repeat put the mouse end mouseUp If this is in a button, click the button once, and (in either HC or Rev or MC) you will see the message box count down from 1000 to 1, and then display "up" If you click the button, and then press and hold the mouse button (while the countdown is displaying), you will see the message box count down to 1 and then display "down" If you click the button and while the countdown is in progress click a second time (down and up while the countdown is displaying), even though the mouse button is "up" the end message displayed is "down" regards, Geoff From drvaughan55 at mac.com Fri Feb 22 19:37:01 2002 From: drvaughan55 at mac.com (David Vaughan) Date: Fri Feb 22 19:37:01 2002 Subject: My Entry for the RR Wish List In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <2B65296B-27F5-11D6-B4C6-000393598038@mac.com> On Saturday, February 23, 2002, at 04:23 , Rob Cozens wrote: > Before Revolution, > CompileIt was my second-most important application behind HyperCard. > However, it appears from the List traffic that many people still > find the need for externals. > > I would be willing to pay a seperate license fee for a tool that would > allow me to create externals scripted in Transcript. > > Rob Cozens, CCW > Strong support for this idea from me, Rob regards David > "Where but America can the person who lost the popular vote become > President without a coup?" > _______________________________________________ > use-revolution mailing list > use-revolution at lists.runrev.com > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution > From PERPHARMACEUTIC at aol.com Fri Feb 22 20:11:01 2002 From: PERPHARMACEUTIC at aol.com (PERPHARMACEUTIC at aol.com) Date: Fri Feb 22 20:11:01 2002 Subject: tools and commands relating to the web Message-ID: <189.3c6a6dc.29a84565@aol.com> Hi Devin, I visited your site (nice), you have a lot of valuable-related information there; I will definitely be reviewing your lessons. I am still puzzled over how to create a browser field (for building a browser); all I can find on the tools palette are standard text fields/boxes. Or, are you saying that by using the htmlText function, that when you get a URL address, a regular text field/box will display the actual web page, not just the html code? Also, what Rev command would be used in a browser to refresh; would just repeating the get URL command accomplish this? Thanks much Steve perpharmaceutic at aol.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From PERPHARMACEUTIC at aol.com Fri Feb 22 20:27:01 2002 From: PERPHARMACEUTIC at aol.com (PERPHARMACEUTIC at aol.com) Date: Fri Feb 22 20:27:01 2002 Subject: resizing window via card properties Message-ID: Hello, I cannot figure out how to resize a window via the card properties, the width/height settings there are not focused (active), and therefore cannot be adjusted. I can adjust the window size from the stack-properties, but that sizes all the cards/windows. I want to be able to size each card/window separately. Isn't each card a window? I am confused. Thanks Steve perpharmaceutic at aol.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From designdb at yahoo.com Fri Feb 22 21:32:01 2002 From: designdb at yahoo.com (dave test) Date: Fri Feb 22 21:32:01 2002 Subject: RR1.1 Animation Tutorial problem Message-ID: I know that there's an easy solution to this, and that, by definition, any question about the tutorials is a newbie question, but... In the Animation Tutorial, if I follow all of the directions (double checking all of my object and animation names) the script/button for Show Me will only work once. Once the reset button is clicked, somehow the animation breaks. From PERPHARMACEUTIC at aol.com Fri Feb 22 22:04:00 2002 From: PERPHARMACEUTIC at aol.com (PERPHARMACEUTIC at aol.com) Date: Fri Feb 22 22:04:00 2002 Subject: RR1.1 Animation Tutorial problem Message-ID: <68.1bef762d.29a85fff@aol.com> Hello Dave, I had what sounds to be the same problem happen to me yesterday. What I had to do was get the coordinates of the animated object at it's frame 1 location, then went into that object-properties and put in the coordinates from the first frame into the properties coordinates (bottom of the object-properties card. Then everything worked fine. It must be a bug. I hope that heps ya. Steve -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From curry at kagi.com Fri Feb 22 22:34:01 2002 From: curry at kagi.com (Curry) Date: Fri Feb 22 22:34:01 2002 Subject: Polling the mouse In-Reply-To: <200202230038.TAA30588@www.runrev.com> Message-ID: Scott Raney wrote: > But did you actually try this? It *doesn't* work that way in either > MC or HC now. If you don't see it, try increasing the loop count (you > may need to at one zero for HC, and about 3 in MC/RR ;-) > > My real question is, given that you're confused about this, how many > other people must be, and if a lot, does this behavior really need to > be preserved? I tried this: on mousedown put the mouse repeat 5 times wait 1 second put the mouse end repeat end mousedown In Revolution 1.1.1 Beta 1, it would accurately show if you had kept holding the mouse all the time, had released it once, or had released and pressed it down once more--but it wouldn't show "up" again if you released it the second time. That's not too bad. But even better: adding "with messages" to the wait achieved perfect accuracy. Then I tried this: on mousedown put the mouse repeat 5 repeat with i=1000000 down to 1 end repeat put the mouse end repeat end mousedown That time, it only said "down" and kept saying down, despite every effort to make it do otherwise. Adding "wait 1 millisec with messages" after the inner repeat loop, however, made it perfectly accurate about the mouse button state. So, at least a bit of tinkering can yield a great result. (I think I've used this technique to use the polling function inside repeat loops also.) As far as the question, should the behavior be maintained if people aren't aware of the exact details, it misses an important point. People don't know the exact behavior of some feature until they need it and try it. No one can be on top of every detail at every time. (Except of course the great teams that produce MC and Rev!) But you have to realize, this is your career and your specialty. Every aspect of our lives involve technologies we use on a daily basis but do not fully understand. But people do have expectations about things which they use and care about, even though they aren't always completely up to date or up to speed on the details. And I'm betting that when people do need to try out this kind of feature, this is what the vast majority would anticipate: that the mouse simply returns "up" when it's up and "down" when it's down. That's what I expect. Of course, absolute perfection is difficult, so I would ask that the behavior aim for perfection and stop where it is practical. If it behaves well in most situations and needs a bit of tinkering now and then for special situations, just like any piece of equipment, then it's acceptable. I think it would be perfect if the capability were there for those people who need to avoid the mouse polling functions in making the very best-behaved software for the most savvy operating systems, but retaining the ability to poll the mouse singly or in repeat statements for people who aren't on such a strict "keyword diet". I think that using the mouse, the mouseLoc, and similar functions once, a few times in a handler, in a repeat loop, or at intervals after actions or waits (adding "with messages" is no incovenience) is very important for typical scripting as it has always worked. Without these keywords and capabilities, the result wouldn't truly be xTalk any more in my opinion. I don't want a situation in the future where I'm not able to script a line like "repeat until the mouse is up." I want to be able to avoid it when necessary, but I always want the option to be there. This type of thing is why I'm here right now with this product in the first place. I consider the use of these functions to be typical scripting style. I want a product that continues to support this style. I also appreciate being able to use other methods when they are called for, but to my viewpoint, that doesn't take away from the polling functions; it just means that they are not suited for certain special situations. I would assert that right now, they are adequate for the great majority of situations, and those special situations are a minority. So, I think that removing or disabling these polling functions would be a huge overreaction to a finite problem. If something needs to be adjusted, that's okay, but the adjustment shouldn't extend far beyond what's necessary to solve the problem. All I'm saying is that we need these functions. Let people avoid them when necessary, but keep them full-strength and usable for when people do choose to use them. How it's done technically doesn't matter too much as long as the behavior is as close to the expected behavior as possible in most situations--single use, multiple single uses over time in a handler, and in repeat loops. If I got mixed up in my previous post with the technical terms and the synchronouslies, my apologies! :-) This time I've avoided all such lingo to make sure it's clear what I'm proposing. In short, I'm opposed to depracating the polling functions. (With the exception of the mouseClick, which I couldn't care less about.) Suggesting that people don't use them for serious applications on certain target operating systems is fine, but I'm against disabling them in any way. (I'm trying to avoid the word "retain", because I am not against modifying the underlying technology if the modifications retain or improve the accuracy of the polling results.) As long as that can be done, I will be a truly happy camper here in the Rev/MC camp. Curry Kenworthy From terry at discovery.nl Fri Feb 22 23:32:00 2002 From: terry at discovery.nl (Terry Vogelaar) Date: Fri Feb 22 23:32:00 2002 Subject: resizing window via card properties In-Reply-To: Message-ID: > I cannot figure out how to resize a window via the card properties, the > width/height settings there are not focused (active), and therefore cannot be > adjusted. I can adjust the window size from the stack-properties, but that > sizes all the cards/windows. I want to be able to size each card/window > separately. > > Isn't each card a window? I am confused. Not each card is a window, but each stack is a window. So you can do two things: - Make a substack for each card with another size. - Write a preOpenCard handler in each card script that resizes the stack to the proper dimensions. Which of the two is best depends on your project. Terry From curry at kagi.com Fri Feb 22 23:35:00 2002 From: curry at kagi.com (Curry) Date: Fri Feb 22 23:35:00 2002 Subject: Polling the mouse In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Scott Raney wrote: > My real question is, given that you're confused about this, how many > other people must be, and if a lot, does this behavior really need to > be preserved? Originally, I thought the answer to this should be "yes", but perhaps it should be "no"--it depends on what the question means. If preserving the behavior means keeping every little detail compatible with HyperCard, then certainly not. It would be great if the polling accuracy could actually be improved and better than HyperCard, and polling after the long repeat loop in the example would return the correct value, even though it doesn't in HyperCard and the current version of MC. I think the behavior doesn't have to be preserved in every detail as it is now, but the functions themselves should be retained and kept working as well as now or better--with the only criteria for judgment being on how accurately they return the true state of what is being polled; if it's different than HyperCard but better than HyperCard, then let's go there! So, there are my answers to both possible meanings I can see in the question. (I know, the question was directed to someone else, but I hope you don't mind me taking it up, since it's a good question.) I really hope that the MC team considers the big picture and does the right thing in fully retaining these functions while making any necessary adjustments. Now, I'm going to try to think about something else for a while! Thanks, Curry Kenworthy From terry at discovery.nl Fri Feb 22 23:38:01 2002 From: terry at discovery.nl (Terry Vogelaar) Date: Fri Feb 22 23:38:01 2002 Subject: Remain focused Message-ID: Silly problem: I made a toolbar that should do the same thing as the menubar. But commands like "copy" and "paste" don't work in the toolbar buttons, because as soon as I click on a button, the text field loses its focus and there is no text selected anymore. Any suggestions? Terry http://www.discovery.nl From terry at discovery.nl Sat Feb 23 00:06:01 2002 From: terry at discovery.nl (Terry Vogelaar) Date: Sat Feb 23 00:06:01 2002 Subject: Dimming menus/buttons Message-ID: Is there a way to figure out if a file is saved or not, so I can enable/disable the menu-item and the toolbar button "Save"? And how about dis/enabling "undo", "cut", "copy", "paste" and "clear" depending on whether there is something to "undo", "cut", "copy", "paste" and "clear"? Terry http://www.discovery.nl From terry at discovery.nl Sat Feb 23 00:09:01 2002 From: terry at discovery.nl (Terry Vogelaar) Date: Sat Feb 23 00:09:01 2002 Subject: Download in progress Message-ID: How do I make a progress bar that indicates when a (not too small) text file on the internet is downloaded? So I probably need to know how do I know how large a file on a server is and how do I know how many bytes are already downloaded. Terry http://www.discovery.nl From designdb at yahoo.com Sat Feb 23 00:30:01 2002 From: designdb at yahoo.com (Dave Ramsey) Date: Sat Feb 23 00:30:01 2002 Subject: RR1.1 Animation Tutorial problem In-Reply-To: <68.1bef762d.29a85fff@aol.com> Message-ID: Steve, Thanks for the prompt response. However, unless I'm doing something different from what you're suggesting (imminently possible), that didn't help. It appears that clicking the reset button (with its line, via subroutine, "set the location of Field "My Field" to -100,50") rewrites the keyframes of the animation. After clicking "Show Me!" and "Reset" a few times, the animation seems to be busted, as the field doesn't seem to move at all, even offscreen. My impression may be wrong, but that's what seems to be happening. Dave _________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com From katir at hindu.org Sat Feb 23 00:42:11 2002 From: katir at hindu.org (Sivakatirswami) Date: Sat Feb 23 00:42:11 2002 Subject: Return all paths, recursively to deepest level Message-ID: Aloha: I think about 2 years ago Kevin or Richard sent me a script that would return the full path for all folders and files, recursively down from the current working directory... but I can't seem to find that script... Also I can't seem to find the archives any more for the metacard card list serve... Does anyone have such a script? One could use Rinaldi's getDir external, and just replace the ":" with "/" in the list returned but that would not be cross platform... the returned output from the function would look like this: MyHardDrive/MetaCard 2.3.1/ KT Stacks MyHardDrive/MetaCard 2.3.1/ KT Stacks/ INNERSEARCH MyHardDrive/MetaCard 2.3.1/ KT Stacks/ INNERSEARCH/Drums hi 2 MyHardDrive/MetaCard 2.3.1/ KT Stacks/ INNERSEARCH/Drums hi fidelity.aiff MyHardDrive/MetaCard 2.3.1/ KT Stacks/ INNERSEARCH/images MyHardDrive/MetaCard 2.3.1/ KT Stacks/ INNERSEARCH/images/0616001 Ocean Sky .pict MyHardDrive/MetaCard 2.3.1/ KT Stacks/Dev Tools-Practice MyHardDrive/MetaCard 2.3.1/ KT Stacks/Dev Tools-Practice/heim2.mc etc. down through to the deepest sub folder and it's files. TIA Hinduism Today Sivakatirswami Editor's Assistant/Production Manager katir at hindu.org www.HinduismToday.com, www.HimalayanAcademy.com, www.Gurudeva.org, www.hindu.org Read The Master Course Lesson of the Day at http://www.gurudeva.org/lesson.shtml From kray at sonsothunder.com Sat Feb 23 00:46:00 2002 From: kray at sonsothunder.com (Ken Ray) Date: Sat Feb 23 00:46:00 2002 Subject: Remain focused References: Message-ID: <005001c1bc2c$bde81110$7c00a8c0@mckinley.dom> Terry, Set the "traversalOn" of the button to false. Then it won't make the field lose focus. Ken Ray Sons of Thunder Software Email: kray at sonsothunder.com Web Site: http://www.sonsothunder.com/ ----- Original Message ----- From: "Terry Vogelaar" To: "Use Revolution" Sent: Friday, February 22, 2002 10:34 PM Subject: Remain focused > Silly problem: I made a toolbar that should do the same thing as the > menubar. But commands like "copy" and "paste" don't work in the toolbar > buttons, because as soon as I click on a button, the text field loses its > focus and there is no text selected anymore. Any suggestions? > > Terry > http://www.discovery.nl > > > _______________________________________________ > use-revolution mailing list > use-revolution at lists.runrev.com > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution > From katir at hindu.org Sat Feb 23 00:50:01 2002 From: katir at hindu.org (Sivakatirswami) Date: Sat Feb 23 00:50:01 2002 Subject: Return all paths, recursively to deepest level Message-ID: Aloha: I think about 2 years ago Kevin or Richard sent me a script that would return the full path for all folders and files, recursively down from the current working directory... but I can't seem to find that script... Also I can't seem to find the archives any more for the metacard card list serve... Does anyone have such a script? One could use Rinaldi's getDir external, and just replace the ":" with "/" in the list returned but that would not be cross platform... the returned output from the function would look like this: MyHardDrive/MetaCard 2.3.1/ KT Stacks MyHardDrive/MetaCard 2.3.1/ KT Stacks/ INNERSEARCH MyHardDrive/MetaCard 2.3.1/ KT Stacks/ INNERSEARCH/Drums hi 2 MyHardDrive/MetaCard 2.3.1/ KT Stacks/ INNERSEARCH/Drums hi fidelity.aiff MyHardDrive/MetaCard 2.3.1/ KT Stacks/ INNERSEARCH/images MyHardDrive/MetaCard 2.3.1/ KT Stacks/ INNERSEARCH/images/0616001 Ocean Sky .pict MyHardDrive/MetaCard 2.3.1/ KT Stacks/Dev Tools-Practice MyHardDrive/MetaCard 2.3.1/ KT Stacks/Dev Tools-Practice/heim2.mc etc. down through to the deepest sub folder and it's files. TIA Hinduism Today Sivakatirswami Editor's Assistant/Production Manager katir at hindu.org www.HinduismToday.com, www.HimalayanAcademy.com, www.Gurudeva.org, www.hindu.org Read The Master Course Lesson of the Day at http://www.gurudeva.org/lesson.shtml _______________________________________________ metacard mailing list metacard at lists.runrev.com http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/metacard From drvaughan55 at mac.com Sat Feb 23 01:12:01 2002 From: drvaughan55 at mac.com (David Vaughan) Date: Sat Feb 23 01:12:01 2002 Subject: Remain focused In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Terry I have not looked at any more advanced possibility in RR but many years ago (I just looked it up) I solved a similar problem in HC thus: on mouseLeave -- the field of interest global gDateSpot if target is me then put the selectedLine into gDateSpot end mouseLeave In my case I wanted a button click to insert today's date before the paragraph containing the insertion point. You would presumably use the selectedText or chunk. Note that my date button also captured the insertion point and reinstated it after putting the date at the start of the paragraph. regards David On Saturday, February 23, 2002, at 03:34 , Terry Vogelaar wrote: > Silly problem: I made a toolbar that should do the same thing as the > menubar. But commands like "copy" and "paste" don't work in the toolbar > buttons, because as soon as I click on a button, the text field loses > its > focus and there is no text selected anymore. Any suggestions? > > Terry > http://www.discovery.nl > > > _______________________________________________ > use-revolution mailing list > use-revolution at lists.runrev.com > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution > From drvaughan55 at mac.com Sat Feb 23 01:15:01 2002 From: drvaughan55 at mac.com (David Vaughan) Date: Sat Feb 23 01:15:01 2002 Subject: Remain focused In-Reply-To: <005001c1bc2c$bde81110$7c00a8c0@mckinley.dom> Message-ID: <66E36DF2-2824-11D6-B4C6-000393598038@mac.com> Terry Ah! So there IS something better in RR. Ignore my earlier/later HC method. cheers David On Saturday, February 23, 2002, at 04:41 , Ken Ray wrote: > Terry, > > Set the "traversalOn" of the button to false. Then it won't make the > field > lose focus. > > Ken Ray > Sons of Thunder Software > Email: kray at sonsothunder.com > Web Site: http://www.sonsothunder.com/ > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Terry Vogelaar" > To: "Use Revolution" > Sent: Friday, February 22, 2002 10:34 PM > Subject: Remain focused > > >> Silly problem: I made a toolbar that should do the same thing as the >> menubar. But commands like "copy" and "paste" don't work in the toolbar >> buttons, because as soon as I click on a button, the text field loses >> its >> focus and there is no text selected anymore. Any suggestions? >> >> Terry >> http://www.discovery.nl >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> use-revolution mailing list >> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution >> > > _______________________________________________ > use-revolution mailing list > use-revolution at lists.runrev.com > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution > From designdb at yahoo.com Sat Feb 23 01:20:01 2002 From: designdb at yahoo.com (Dave Ramsey) Date: Sat Feb 23 01:20:01 2002 Subject: Bug Reports go where? Message-ID: I really hate buggy tutorials... In the OSX version of RR (I don't know if the same problem exists elsewhere), using the geometry manager, try to set the horizontal positioning to maintain distance as percentage and the vertical positioning to keep center -20 pixels from the bottom. It looks like it works. Then click back and forth between the horizontal and vertical sections a few times. The horizontal will change to a "Keep center..." setting. Oops. Dave Ramsey _________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com From ambassador at FourthWorld.com Sat Feb 23 01:28:01 2002 From: ambassador at FourthWorld.com (Richard Gaskin) Date: Sat Feb 23 01:28:01 2002 Subject: Polling the mouse In-Reply-To: <200202230038.TAA30588@www.runrev.com> Message-ID: > My real question is, given that you're confused about this, how many > other people must be, and if a lot, does this behavior really need to > be preserved? As long as the docs provide clear examples of how to live without it, migrating away from it should not be a problem in the long run. -- Richard Gaskin Fourth World Media Corporation Custom Software and Web Development for All Major Platforms Developer of WebMerge 1.9: Publish any Database on Any Site ___________________________________________________________ Ambassador at FourthWorld.com http://www.FourthWorld.com Tel: 323-225-3717 AIM: FourthWorldInc From kray at sonsothunder.com Sat Feb 23 02:16:01 2002 From: kray at sonsothunder.com (Ken Ray) Date: Sat Feb 23 02:16:01 2002 Subject: Return all paths, recursively to deepest level References: Message-ID: <007601c1bc39$4c850bb0$7c00a8c0@mckinley.dom> Siva, here you go: global gHierList,gMainFolder,gBaseLevels on mouseUp put "" into gHierList answer folder "Pick a folder you want to walk:" if it = "" then exit mouseUp set the itemDel to "/" put it into gMainFolder put the number of items of gMainFolder into gBaseLevels directoryWalk gMainFolder put gHierList into field 1 end mouseUp on directoryWalk whatFolder set the itemDel to "/" if "(2)" is in pDel then put 2 into numSpcs else put 4 into numSpcs put " " into spcPad set the directory to whatFolder put the files into temp sort temp repeat with x = 1 to the number of lines of temp put whatFolder & "/" & (line x of temp) into line (the number of lines of gHierList)+1 of gHierList end repeat put the directories into tDirList sort tDirList repeat with x = 2 to the number of lines of tDirList directoryWalk (whatFolder & "/" & (line x of tDirList)) end repeat end directoryWalk Enjoy! Ken Ray Sons of Thunder Software Email: kray at sonsothunder.com Web Site: http://www.sonsothunder.com/ ----- Original Message ----- From: "Sivakatirswami" To: "Metacard List" ; Sent: Friday, February 22, 2002 11:38 PM Subject: Return all paths, recursively to deepest level > Aloha: > > I think about 2 years ago Kevin or Richard sent me a script that would > return the full path for all folders and files, recursively down from the > current working directory... but I can't seem to find that script... Also I > can't seem to find the archives any more for the metacard card list serve... > > Does anyone have such a script? One could use Rinaldi's getDir external, and > just replace the ":" with "/" in the list returned but that would not be > cross platform... the returned output from the function would look like > this: > > MyHardDrive/MetaCard 2.3.1/ KT Stacks > MyHardDrive/MetaCard 2.3.1/ KT Stacks/ INNERSEARCH > MyHardDrive/MetaCard 2.3.1/ KT Stacks/ INNERSEARCH/Drums hi 2 > MyHardDrive/MetaCard 2.3.1/ KT Stacks/ INNERSEARCH/Drums hi fidelity.aiff > MyHardDrive/MetaCard 2.3.1/ KT Stacks/ INNERSEARCH/images > MyHardDrive/MetaCard 2.3.1/ KT Stacks/ INNERSEARCH/images/0616001 Ocean Sky > .pict > MyHardDrive/MetaCard 2.3.1/ KT Stacks/Dev Tools-Practice > MyHardDrive/MetaCard 2.3.1/ KT Stacks/Dev Tools-Practice/heim2.mc > > > etc. down through to the deepest sub folder and it's files. > > TIA > > Hinduism Today > > Sivakatirswami > Editor's Assistant/Production Manager > katir at hindu.org > www.HinduismToday.com, www.HimalayanAcademy.com, > www.Gurudeva.org, www.hindu.org > > Read The Master Course Lesson of the Day at > http://www.gurudeva.org/lesson.shtml > > _______________________________________________ > metacard mailing list > metacard at lists.runrev.com > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/metacard > _______________________________________________ > use-revolution mailing list > use-revolution at lists.runrev.com > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution > From PERPHARMACEUTIC at aol.com Sat Feb 23 03:21:01 2002 From: PERPHARMACEUTIC at aol.com (PERPHARMACEUTIC at aol.com) Date: Sat Feb 23 03:21:01 2002 Subject: RR1.1 Animation Tutorial problem Message-ID: <199.2b35d70.29a8aa45@aol.com> Dave, If you have a "on preOpenCard", "on openCard", or pre/open-stack command that sets the coordinates of the object, try putting the first-frame, animation coorinates of the object into the pre/open settings. If you don't have that object set for pre/open commands, then I wouldn't have a clue. I had what sounds to be the same problem as you, and adjusting those settings actully fixed it. Good luck Steve -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From dcragg at lacscentre.co.uk Sat Feb 23 05:24:01 2002 From: dcragg at lacscentre.co.uk (Dave Cragg) Date: Sat Feb 23 05:24:01 2002 Subject: Download in progress In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: At 6:05 am +0100 23/2/02, Terry Vogelaar wrote: >How do I make a progress bar that indicates when a (not too small) text file >on the internet is downloaded? >So I probably need to know how do I know how large a file on a server is and >how do I know how many bytes are already downloaded. You need to use "load" to download the file, and then the urlStatus function to track it as it downloads. Something like: on mouseUp put "http://xxx.xx.com/myfile.txt" into tUrl load url tUrl showStatus end mouseUp on showStatus pUrl put "http://xxx.xx.com/myfile.txt" into tUrl put urlStatus(pUrl) end showStatus This will put urlStatus in the message box. You'll see that it shows "loading,x,y" as the file is downloading. You can use the values of x and y to construct a progress bar. Cheers Dave Cragg (Revolution -- It's Got The Power) From kevin at runrev.com Sat Feb 23 07:13:01 2002 From: kevin at runrev.com (Kevin Miller) Date: Sat Feb 23 07:13:01 2002 Subject: Using Profile Manager--How? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On 22/2/02 7:35 pm, Sivakatirswami wrote: > Sorry if this has been asked and answered > > I am trying to get some stacks to look like mac os 9 or mac os x. Profile > manager seems to be the way to do this, but it doesn't work as expected. Is > there an easy way to make all the buttons and all the standard fields look > "mac-like"? > > Going through the Profile Manager Tutorial I am able to create a profile for > single button, and switch between the default "master" and the newly named > profile... the one button behaves properly. > > But then there doesn't seem to be an easy way to apply this globally: the > pull down menu to apply to the card and it's objects only works on the one > button itself, not all the buttons on the card.... selecting all the buttons > and the profile of the one button is dimmed. write a repeat loop to apply > the profile to each button by number and the result was again that only the > button that had the profile was changed to match the profile... > > What am I doing wrong? I was thinking it should be as easy as importing a > "skin" and applying it the stack, but then, obviously one would have to have > that profile/set of profiles already at hand... does one exist? Select all the objects involved, then hit "New" in the Profile Manager to create the desired profile. Make the appropriate changes, e.g. to size the larger OS X fonts in using things like the alignment palette and the set to formatted options in the Basic properties tab. Then you can simply select all objects involved and switch between profiles. Distribution Builder can include only a specific profile or all profiles. You can change the profile of an object using: set the cREVGeneral["profile"] of btn 1 to "whatever" Of the entire card: revSetStackProfile "profile",stack "whatever" Kind regards, Kevin Kevin Miller Runtime Revolution Limited - Power to the Developer! Tel: +44 (0) 870 747 1165. Fax: +44 (0)1639 830 707. From Stgecft at aol.com Sat Feb 23 07:54:01 2002 From: Stgecft at aol.com (Stgecft at aol.com) Date: Sat Feb 23 07:54:01 2002 Subject: resizing window via card properties Message-ID: <36.238bb5bb.29a8ea68@aol.com> Try using the on openCard command of each card you want to resize. You will still only be able to use the setting of stack command (Width & Height) but it will accomplish the same thing. I don't belive you can reset the width & height of single cards because they are part of the exixting stack. Randy Kent Stagcraft, Inc. www.stagecraftinc.com From jphurley at jps.net Sat Feb 23 08:51:01 2002 From: jphurley at jps.net (Jim Hurley) Date: Sat Feb 23 08:51:01 2002 Subject: Speed In-Reply-To: <200202221954.OAA23287@www.runrev.com> References: <200202221954.OAA23287@www.runrev.com> Message-ID: >On Friday, February 22, 2002, at 06:22 AM, Jim Hurley wrote: > > > I concede the difficulties in speedily running color vs. black and >> white, and the improvement in the current release is much appreciated. >> However there remains a considerable gap between MC/RR and HC. For >> example, the following script draws concentric boxes of ever decreasing >> size. >> >> on mouseUp >> clean >> put 100 into a >> put 300 into b >> put 2 into da >> choose the line tool >> put the ticks into startTime >> repeat 50 --draw boxes of ever decreasing size >> drag from a,a to b,a >> drag from b,a to b,b >> drag from b,b to a,b >> drag from a,b to a,a >> add da to a >> subtract da from b >> end repeat >> put the ticks - startTime into field 1 >> choose the browse tool >> end mouseUp >> >> on clean >> repeat until the number of images = 0 >> delete image 1 >> end repeat >> end clean >> >> This script takes 265 ticks on average in RR and 30 ticks in HC on >> cards of identical size. (I realize that this can be done more >> efficiently with the rectangle tool and that a graphic would be faster >> than an image. My purpose was to measure the drag speed. ) The >> discrepancy would be less in Windows. Scott Rossi wrote: >Since I'm fairly entrenched in graphics work, this post caught my eye. >One thing you need to keep in mind with MC/REV is that usually, not >always, but usually there are similar ways to achieve what you've done >before using alternate methods. For example, I ran the above script and >timed a rough average of 111 ticks. Then instead of choosing the line >tool, I chose the pencil tool, and drawing time was reduced to 37 >ticks. Scott, Thank you sooooo much! This choice of the pencil is a real find--for me. It not only make turtle graphics viable on MC and RR but it is even faster than HC. This difference between the line tool and the pencil tool is, I think, undocumented in RR or MC. The pencil tool in MC is not the same as the pencil tool in HC. (The above script draws an altogether different figure in HC.) In HC the pencil tool draws black if the initial screen point is white and white if the initial screen point is black--it acts like the "fat bits tool." Fortunately, in MC it always draw whatever the pen color is; the color of the starting point is irrelevant. However, unlike the line tool, it is not possible to vary the pen width--a small price to pay for the increase in speed. Furthermore, unlike the line tool, the drawing speed is apparently unaffected by the card dimensions. Drawing with the line tool becomes increasing slow as the card dimensions increase. >Adding a "lock screen" reduced the overall time to 9 ticks -- >virtually immediate. In most of my applications in education, it is important for the student to see the path evolving in time and so locking the screen is not an option. I hope the other Scott will help us to understand the difference between the pencil and line tools and why the pencil tool is soooo much faster. Jim Hurley From JohnRule at aol.com Sat Feb 23 10:35:01 2002 From: JohnRule at aol.com (JohnRule at aol.com) Date: Sat Feb 23 10:35:01 2002 Subject: CompileIt! was cool Message-ID: <7f.21e48372.29a90ffd@aol.com> << I got to thinking how much CompileIt helped me to expand my << HyperTalk applications' capabilities That's funny, I just 'resurrected' my copy of CompileIt! yesterday. I started going through some of the xcmds and xfcns I wrote (MidiToolz), and I realized what a powerful compiler that was. You have direct access to the 'OS toolbox', which gave me the capabilities to integrate the Apple Midi Manager (kind of obsolete now, but it still works!). It was not cross-platform though. Did you know they also had a stand-alone builder? It was called DoubleXX. You could take all of the externals you made, and stick them in a double-clickable application. I believe Heizer software was purchased by another company called Royal Software...Ro Nagey, are you on this list? Which brings me to a question...how do we get xcmds to work in Revolution? Do I really need to recompile them? I cannot get any of my custom externals to work at all (do they need to be 'ResEdited' into Revolution?). I cannot find documentation on this... Royal software also had a cool application called LiveCard that would serve your Hypercard 'stacks' to the web...why can't we do this? << I would be willing to pay a separate license fee for a tool that would << allow me to create externals scripted in Transcript Revolution has 'most' of the functionality that I need, but I would also pay for a CompileIt! type of application for Revolution. Here are a few features that something like this could give you access to: USB FireWire MIDI capabilities Video recording Direct graphics (transparencies, 3D, etc). Direct OS manipulation/communication. Sorry Kevin (and 'the crew'), I didn't mean to 'open a can of worms' here, but I would love to use my MidiToolz in Revolution (I am talking about system exclusive saving/sending and device control...not just playing some midi files). I guess I can always keep a computer with OS 8.6 and HyperCard hanging around to control my studio, but I would rather use RunRev. JR From rcozens at pon.net Sat Feb 23 12:12:19 2002 From: rcozens at pon.net (Rob Cozens) Date: Sat Feb 23 12:12:19 2002 Subject: My Entry for the RR Wish List In-Reply-To: References: <200202221954.OAA23306@www.runrev.com> Message-ID: >Since it seems to be the vertical platform-specific stuff where we need the >most help, it may bring us the biggest bang for the buck to have some means >of making OS calls directly in the language. We'd have to type our vars, >but that's a small price to pay for all that flexibility. Richard, et al: If it is not a major undertaking, it would be the preferred approach. I was trying to leverage the concept by suggesting it could be a source of additional revenue to MC/RR Inc. rather than additional cost to be amortized by MC/RR sales. On the surface it seems only to require variable typing (including support for handles & pointers), ability to build & extract info from system parameter packets, and a built-in knowledge of the number and type of arguments for each system call (a la CompileIt's built-in libraries and/or buildable by the developer). Rob Cozens CCW, Serendipity Software Company "And I, which was two fooles, do so grow three; Who are a little wise, the best fooles bee." from "The Triple Foole" by John Donne (1572-1631) From rcozens at pon.net Sat Feb 23 12:12:41 2002 From: rcozens at pon.net (Rob Cozens) Date: Sat Feb 23 12:12:41 2002 Subject: CompileIt! was cool In-Reply-To: <7f.21e48372.29a90ffd@aol.com> Message-ID: >how do we get xcmds to work in Revolution? Do >I really need to recompile them? I cannot get any of my custom externals to >work at all (do they need to be 'ResEdited' into Revolution?). Hi John, I don't know how it works in WindNix, but on Macs I believe you must, indeed, insert the external into the resource fork of some stack before you can use it. The stack with the externals can be your main stack or a library stack that other stacks start using whenver they need the external. Since Revolution is supposed to be able to open & convert HyperCard stacks, it might be possible to simply start using the HC stack the the external in you Revolution stack. Rob Cozens CCW, Serendipity Software Company "And I, which was two fooles, do so grow three; Who are a little wise, the best fooles bee." from "The Triple Foole" by John Donne (1572-1631) From pixelbird at interisland.net Sat Feb 23 14:01:01 2002 From: pixelbird at interisland.net (Ken Norris (dialup)) Date: Sat Feb 23 14:01:01 2002 Subject: My Entry for the RR Wish List In-Reply-To: <2B65296B-27F5-11D6-B4C6-000393598038@mac.com> Message-ID: on 2/22/02 4:35 PM, David Vaughan at drvaughan55 at mac.com wrote: > On Saturday, February 23, 2002, at 04:23 , Rob Cozens wrote: > >> Before Revolution, >> CompileIt was my second-most important application behind HyperCard. > >> However, it appears from the List traffic that many people still >> find the need for externals. >> >> I would be willing to pay a seperate license fee for a tool that would >> allow me to create externals scripted in Transcript. >> >> Rob Cozens, CCW >> > > Strong support for this idea from me, Rob ---------- I'm just a newbie, but I think such support (a compiler using Transcript-like language) would be a great idea for developers, and also, tracking the kinds of externals most used would be a good indicator of what should be created as native support for MC/RR as well. Just my $.02 WORTH. Ken N. From pixelbird at interisland.net Sat Feb 23 14:24:01 2002 From: pixelbird at interisland.net (Ken Norris (dialup)) Date: Sat Feb 23 14:24:01 2002 Subject: Polling the mouse state In-Reply-To: Message-ID: on 2/20/02 10:47 PM, Geoff Canyon at gcanyon at inspiredlogic.com wrote: > If you have a specific need that seems to require "repeat while the mouse is > down," post it and we'll see if we can figure a way around it. > ---------- Not exactly, but, how about this: on mousestilldown put max(81,min(557,the mouseh)) into x put max(167,min(287,the mousev)) into y set the loc of me to x,y end mousestilldown ...This is an oval (made round) button with the hilite set to true. It 'sees through' a black-filled rectangular box, like a spyglass, so the user can see portions of a color image underneath. It stays within the borders of the box as you drag it around. The user is looking for an object. When they find what they believe is the correct object, release the mouse button (other stuff left out of the example): on mouseUp global objCnt, plyrName,gmName,total,xFer,objName,verse get the loc of me if it is within rect of bg fld (objCnt+2) then --other stuff here-- end if end mouseUp Thanks for looking, Ken N. From jacque at hyperactivesw.com Sat Feb 23 14:55:00 2002 From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (Jacqueline Landman Gay) Date: Sat Feb 23 14:55:00 2002 Subject: use-revolution digest, Vol 1 #218 - 14 msgs In-Reply-To: <200202230551.AAA05076@www.runrev.com> Message-ID: On Friday, February 22, 2002, at 11:51 PM, use-revolution- request at lists.runrev.com wrote: > Without these keywords and capabilities, the result wouldn't truly be > xTalk > any more in my opinion. I don't want a situation in the future where I'm > not > able to script a line like "repeat until the mouse is up." I want to be > able > to avoid it when necessary, but I always want the option to be there. For the record, I have to agree with this. The beauty of xtalk is its flexibility and ease of use. Those who need to create professional software ought to be learning the most efficient ways to program their work anyway, but familiar and universal functions like "the mouse" should remain available as alternatives for everyone. -- Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com From scott at tactilemedia.com Sat Feb 23 15:49:01 2002 From: scott at tactilemedia.com (Scott Rossi) Date: Sat Feb 23 15:49:01 2002 Subject: Polling the mouse state In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Recently, Ken Norris (dialup) wrote: >> If you have a specific need that seems to require "repeat while the mouse is >> down," post it and we'll see if we can figure a way around it. >> > ---------- > Not exactly, but, how about this: > > on mousestilldown > put max(81,min(557,the mouseh)) into x > put max(167,min(287,the mousev)) into y > set the loc of me to x,y > end mousestilldown > > ...This is an oval (made round) button with the hilite set to true. It 'sees > through' a black-filled rectangular box, like a spyglass, so the user can > see portions of a color image underneath. It stays within the borders of the > box as you drag it around. The user is looking for an object. > > When they find what they believe is the correct object, release the mouse > button If I understand your request, this is one way you could do the above. Make 3 small graphics named box 1, box 2 and box 3 within the region you define. Then place the following script in your oval: on mouseDown set the uAllowMove of me to true end mouseDown on mouseMove x,y if not the uAllowMove of me then exit mouseMove set the loc of me to (max(81,min(557,x))),(max(167,min(287,y))) end mouseMove on mouseUp set the uAllowMove of me to empty put "box1,box2,box3" into bList repeat for each item B in bList if within(me,loc of grc B) then put "You found box" && B exit repeat else put empty end repeat end mouseUp on mouseRelease mouseUp end mouseRelease ----- This should display the name (in the message box) of any box graphic that falls within the oval when the mouse is released. BTW, did you look at the drag example I posted a few days ago? http://www.tactilemedia.com/download/drag_sample.mc You might find this useful. Regards, Scott Rossi Creative Director Tactile Media, Multimedia & Design Email: scott at tactilemedia.com Web: www.tactilemedia.com From tbandi at swissonline.ch Sat Feb 23 16:30:00 2002 From: tbandi at swissonline.ch (Till Bandi) Date: Sat Feb 23 16:30:00 2002 Subject: avoid the standard find dialog? Message-ID: <6AC33BC8-2851-11D6-A1D4-003065C286B0@swissonline.ch> I would like to have my own find dialog so I wanted to trap the standard dialog that wi get by commandKey & F. I tried with a commandKeyDown handler but had no success. Can anyone give a hint how to do this? Another variant of the Question: What is the equivalent in RR to the HyperCard handler on doMenu what if what is "new card" then go last pass doMenu else pass doMenu end if end doMenu thanks Till From drvaughan55 at mac.com Sat Feb 23 18:12:01 2002 From: drvaughan55 at mac.com (David Vaughan) Date: Sat Feb 23 18:12:01 2002 Subject: My Entry for the RR Wish List In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <5AA2CC2A-28B2-11D6-B4C6-000393598038@mac.com> Although I voiced support for a CompileIt!-style product, the need is far less than existed in HC, as I continue to learn. While we are floating the idea though, I envisage a separate product from Rev, as was CompileIt! from HC, rather than inbuilt capability. Why? Because no-one should fiddle with handles and pointers without damn-good driving lessons and background knowledge of what it is they are playing with. It would soon turn people off RR if they thought such capability a normal or expected-use part of the product and then crashed and burned as they over-wrote their pointers, failed to manage memory and struggled with low-level debugging. Hardly the RR experience we enjoy. Similarly, Java is productive for its safety features (no pointer access) as much as its cross-platform capability. Rev's avoidance of strong typing is itself a language strategy, appealing to some and not to others. I like the idea, but as an add-on, not a product change, hence my support also for separate licensing for a "modest" fee. regards David On Sunday, February 24, 2002, at 03:59 , Rob Cozens wrote: >> Since it seems to be the vertical platform-specific stuff where we >> need the >> most help, it may bring us the biggest bang for the buck to have some >> means >> of making OS calls directly in the language. We'd have to type our >> vars, >> but that's a small price to pay for all that flexibility. > > Richard, et al: > > If it is not a major undertaking, it would be the preferred approach. I > was trying to leverage the concept by suggesting it could be a source of > additional revenue to MC/RR Inc. rather than additional cost to be > amortized by MC/RR sales. > > On the surface it seems only to require variable typing (including > support > for handles & pointers), ability to build & extract info from system > parameter packets, and a built-in knowledge of the number and type of > arguments for each system call (a la CompileIt's built-in libraries > and/or > buildable by the developer). > > Rob Cozens > CCW, Serendipity Software Company > > "And I, which was two fooles, do so grow three; > Who are a little wise, the best fooles bee." > > from "The Triple Foole" by John Donne (1572-1631) > _______________________________________________ > use-revolution mailing list > use-revolution at lists.runrev.com > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution > From pixelbird at interisland.net Sat Feb 23 20:41:01 2002 From: pixelbird at interisland.net (Ken Norris (dialup)) Date: Sat Feb 23 20:41:01 2002 Subject: Polling the mouse state In-Reply-To: Message-ID: on 2/23/02 12:47 PM, Scott Rossi at scott at tactilemedia.com wrote: > If I understand your request, this is one way you could do the above. Make > 3 small graphics named box 1, box 2 and box 3 within the region you define. > Then place the following script in your oval: > > on mouseDown > set the uAllowMove of me to true > end mouseDown > > on mouseMove x,y > if not the uAllowMove of me then exit mouseMove > set the loc of me to (max(81,min(557,x))),(max(167,min(287,y))) > end mouseMove > > on mouseUp > set the uAllowMove of me to empty > put "box1,box2,box3" into bList > repeat for each item B in bList > if within(me,loc of grc B) then > put "You found box" && B > exit repeat > else put empty > end repeat > end mouseUp ---------- This much I understand. I have 10 objects in each card, but the principal is the same. ----------- > on mouseRelease > mouseUp > end mouseRelease ---------- Is this some kind of backup redundancy for PC's? As far as I know, the mouseUp message gets sent automatically when you release the mouse, and doesn't need a separate handler. ---------- > This should display the name (in the message box) of any box graphic that > falls within the oval when the mouse is released. > > BTW, did you look at the drag example I posted a few days ago? > > http://www.tactilemedia.com/download/drag_sample.mc ---------- I haven't yet. I couldn't get it to DL. I'm using a Mac. I'll try again later. Thanks somuch, Ken N. From scott at tactilemedia.com Sat Feb 23 21:15:01 2002 From: scott at tactilemedia.com (Scott Rossi) Date: Sat Feb 23 21:15:01 2002 Subject: Polling the mouse state In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Recently, Ken Norris (dialup) wrote: >> on mouseRelease >> mouseUp >> end mouseRelease > ---------- > Is this some kind of backup redundancy for PC's? As far as I know, the > mouseUp message gets sent automatically when you release the mouse, and > doesn't need a separate handler. You need this handler in case the mouse is released when it falls outside the rect of the dragged object. You risk missing the mouseUp event if you don't include this handler. >> BTW, did you look at the drag example I posted a few days ago? >> >> http://www.tactilemedia.com/download/drag_sample.mc > ---------- > I haven't yet. I couldn't get it to DL. I'm using a Mac. I'll try again > later. I use Macs as well. Just control click the link and choose "Download link to disk" or equivalent. Regards, Scott Rossi Creative Director Tactile Media, Multimedia & Design Email: scott at tactilemedia.com Web: www.tactilemedia.com From raney at metacard.com Sat Feb 23 22:50:02 2002 From: raney at metacard.com (Scott Raney) Date: Sat Feb 23 22:50:02 2002 Subject: Speed In-Reply-To: <200202231703.MAA13238@www.runrev.com> Message-ID: On Sat, 23 Feb 2002 Jim Hurley wrote: (snip) > The pencil tool in MC is not the same as the pencil tool in HC. (The > above script draws an altogether different figure in HC.) In HC the > pencil tool draws black if the initial screen point is white and > white if the initial screen point is black--it acts like the "fat > bits tool." Fortunately, in MC it always draw whatever the pen color > is; the color of the starting point is irrelevant. Right, it has to be that way. You use a different mouse button (control-click on the Mac) to erase instead of it picking up the start color. > However, unlike > the line tool, it is not possible to vary the pen width--a small > price to pay for the increase in speed. Furthermore, unlike the line > tool, the drawing speed is apparently unaffected by the card > dimensions. Drawing with the line tool becomes increasing slow as > the card dimensions increase. > > >Adding a "lock screen" reduced the overall time to 9 ticks -- > >virtually immediate. > > In most of my applications in education, it is important for the > student to see the path evolving in time and so locking the screen > is not an option. > > I hope the other Scott will help us to understand the difference > between the pencil and line tools and why the pencil tool is soooo > much faster. It's rubberbanding: the pencil draws directly to the image, whereas things like lines and circles and rects must be buffered so they can show you the shape as they're being dragged out. But this does point to a possible optimization that could be made for drag with dragSpeed set to 0, in which case it really doesn't need to do this step. Optimizing it out might speed things up some, and I'll put investigating this on the to-do list for 2.4.2. Regards, Scott > Jim Hurley ******************************************************** Scott Raney raney at metacard.com http://www.metacard.com MetaCard: You know, there's an easier way to do that... From drvaughan55 at mac.com Sun Feb 24 04:05:01 2002 From: drvaughan55 at mac.com (David Vaughan) Date: Sun Feb 24 04:05:01 2002 Subject: Return all paths, recursively to deepest level In-Reply-To: <007601c1bc39$4c850bb0$7c00a8c0@mckinley.dom> Message-ID: <5246647B-2905-11D6-A408-000393598038@mac.com> Ken Coincidentally, I had just stared writing a recursive directory walker when Siva asked for one and you supplied. Very timely, thanks. I noticed, however, that you use the construct "the directories" which proves to be a synonym for "the folders" which is the function returned if you search the Transcript Dictionary for "directories" or "folders". What other synonyms exist in Transcript and where are they documented? Are synonyms deprecated? Incidentally, below is my refinement of your code to remove redundancies (presumably from something else you were doing) and increase speed. regards David global gHierList on mouseUp put empty into gHierList -- put empty into field 1 answer folder "Pick a folder you want to walk:" if it is empty then exit mouseUp -- put it into defFold directoryWalk it sort gHierList put gHierList into field 1 -- set the defaultFolder to defFold end mouseUp on directoryWalk whatFolder set the defaultFolder to whatFolder put the files into temp repeat for each line x in temp put whatFolder & "/" & x & return after gHierList end repeat put the folders into tDirList repeat with x = 2 to the number of lines of tDirList directoryWalk (whatFolder & "/" & (line x of tDirList)) end repeat end directoryWalk On Saturday, February 23, 2002, at 06:11 , Ken Ray wrote: > Siva, here you go: > > global gHierList,gMainFolder,gBaseLevels > > on mouseUp > put "" into gHierList > answer folder "Pick a folder you want to walk:" > if it = "" then exit mouseUp > set the itemDel to "/" > put it into gMainFolder > put the number of items of gMainFolder into gBaseLevels > directoryWalk gMainFolder > put gHierList into field 1 > end mouseUp > > on directoryWalk whatFolder > set the itemDel to "/" > if "(2)" is in pDel then put 2 into numSpcs > else put 4 into numSpcs > put " " into spcPad > set the directory to whatFolder > put the files into temp > sort temp > repeat with x = 1 to the number of lines of temp > put whatFolder & "/" & (line x of temp) into line (the number of > lines > of gHierList)+1 of gHierList > end repeat > put the directories into tDirList > sort tDirList > repeat with x = 2 to the number of lines of tDirList > directoryWalk (whatFolder & "/" & (line x of tDirList)) > end repeat > end directoryWalk > > > Enjoy! > > Ken Ray > Sons of Thunder Software > Email: kray at sonsothunder.com > Web Site: http://www.sonsothunder.com/ > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Sivakatirswami" > To: "Metacard List" ; > > Sent: Friday, February 22, 2002 11:38 PM > Subject: Return all paths, recursively to deepest level > > >> Aloha: >> >> I think about 2 years ago Kevin or Richard sent me a script that would >> return the full path for all folders and files, recursively down from >> the >> current working directory... but I can't seem to find that script... >> Also > I >> can't seem to find the archives any more for the metacard card list > serve... >> >> Does anyone have such a script? One could use Rinaldi's getDir >> external, > and >> just replace the ":" with "/" in the list returned but that would not >> be >> cross platform... the returned output from the function would look >> like >> this: >> >> MyHardDrive/MetaCard 2.3.1/ KT Stacks >> MyHardDrive/MetaCard 2.3.1/ KT Stacks/ INNERSEARCH >> MyHardDrive/MetaCard 2.3.1/ KT Stacks/ INNERSEARCH/Drums hi 2 >> MyHardDrive/MetaCard 2.3.1/ KT Stacks/ INNERSEARCH/Drums hi >> fidelity.aiff >> MyHardDrive/MetaCard 2.3.1/ KT Stacks/ INNERSEARCH/images >> MyHardDrive/MetaCard 2.3.1/ KT Stacks/ INNERSEARCH/images/0616001 >> Ocean > Sky >> .pict >> MyHardDrive/MetaCard 2.3.1/ KT Stacks/Dev Tools-Practice >> MyHardDrive/MetaCard 2.3.1/ KT Stacks/Dev Tools-Practice/heim2.mc >> >> >> etc. down through to the deepest sub folder and it's files. >> >> TIA >> >> Hinduism Today >> >> Sivakatirswami >> Editor's Assistant/Production Manager >> katir at hindu.org >> www.HinduismToday.com, www.HimalayanAcademy.com, >> www.Gurudeva.org, www.hindu.org >> >> Read The Master Course Lesson of the Day at >> http://www.gurudeva.org/lesson.shtml >> >> _______________________________________________ >> metacard mailing list >> metacard at lists.runrev.com >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/metacard >> _______________________________________________ >> use-revolution mailing list >> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution >> > > _______________________________________________ > use-revolution mailing list > use-revolution at lists.runrev.com > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution > From sjoerdoptland at mac.com Sun Feb 24 04:56:00 2002 From: sjoerdoptland at mac.com (Sjoerd Op 't Land) Date: Sun Feb 24 04:56:00 2002 Subject: Return all paths, recursively to deepest level In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Sivakatirswami wrote/ schreef: > Aloha: > > I think about 2 years ago Kevin or Richard sent me a script that would > return the full path for all folders and files, recursively down from the > current working directory... but I can't seem to find that script... Also I > can't seem to find the archives any more for the metacard card list serve... > [snip] I made something myself, have a look below. Your list would be possible with: answer folder "Choose dir to dig..." if the result is "Cancel" the exit to top put relPath(deepFiles(it),it) into field "tFiles" Regards, / Groeten, Sjoerd ------- SCRIPT ------- function deepFiles startDir set the cursor to busy if it is "Cancel" then exit to top set the directory to startDir local tFiles repeat for each line tFile in the files put startDir & "/" & tFile into line (the number of lines in tFiles + 1) of tFiles end repeat repeat for each line tDir in line 2 to -1 of the directories put deepFiles(startDir & "/" & tDir) into line (the number of lines in tFiles + 1) of tFiles set the directory to startDir end repeat return tFiles end deepFiles function relPath absFiles,absDir repeat for each line tFile in absFiles put oneRelPath(tFile,absDir) into line (the number of lines in relFiles + 1) of relFiles end repeat return relFiles end relPath function oneRelPath absFile,absDir set itemDel to "/" repeat forever if item 1 of absDir = item 1 of absFile then delete item 1 of absFile delete item 1 of absDir else put repeatString("../",the number of items in absDir) before absFile exit repeat end if end repeat return absFile end oneRelPath function repeatString rString,rTimes local repeatedString repeat for rTimes times put rString after repeatedString end repeat return repeatedString end repeatString From jeanne at runrev.com Sun Feb 24 05:50:01 2002 From: jeanne at runrev.com (Jeanne A. E. DeVoto) Date: Sun Feb 24 05:50:01 2002 Subject: RR1.1 Animation Tutorial problem In-Reply-To: Message-ID: At 6:29 PM -0800 2/22/2002, dave test wrote: >In the Animation Tutorial, if I follow all of the directions (double >checking all of my object and animation names) the script/button for Show Me >will only work once. Once the reset button is clicked, somehow the >animation breaks. I'm guessing that you still have the Animation Manager open, and frame 20 chosen in the Animation Manager, when you click Reset. What happens in this case is that the Animation Manager picks up on the position change, and sets the "reset" position as frame 20 as well as frame 1... and therefore the animation doesn't move the field anywhere. If this is what's happening, the fix is simple: just close the Animation Manager before you click the Reset button. I'm tweaking the tutorial wording a little to make this less likely. (It's something the original writer of the tutorial didn't run into, because in earlier versions, the Animation Manager wasn't quite so sensitive to changes in object position.) -- Jeanne A. E. DeVoto ~ jeanne at runrev.com http://www.runrev.com/ Runtime Revolution Limited - Power to the Developer! From jeanne at runrev.com Sun Feb 24 05:50:28 2002 From: jeanne at runrev.com (Jeanne A. E. DeVoto) Date: Sun Feb 24 05:50:28 2002 Subject: Return all paths, recursively to deepest level In-Reply-To: <5246647B-2905-11D6-A408-000393598038@mac.com> References: <007601c1bc39$4c850bb0$7c00a8c0@mckinley.dom> Message-ID: At 1:03 AM -0800 2/24/2002, David Vaughan wrote: >What other synonyms exist in Transcript and where are they documented? In the entry for each term that has one or more synonyms. (Look below the term.) >Are synonyms deprecated? No. -- Jeanne A. E. DeVoto ~ jeanne at runrev.com http://www.runrev.com/ Runtime Revolution Limited - Power to the Developer! From martin at atwork.bdx.co.uk Sun Feb 24 08:37:00 2002 From: martin at atwork.bdx.co.uk (Martin Baxter) Date: Sun Feb 24 08:37:00 2002 Subject: reordering lists Message-ID: I don't need to do this right now, but I know that in due course I'm going to need to arbitrarily reorder lines of a list field. My idea of how to do this is to drag the lines to where I want them, which is how I do it currently in hypercard, using windowscript ( - a type 2 xcmd that isn't compatible with RR). In windowscript it's easy, you just set the behaviour of a list field to drag, and the rest is automatic. Clicking up/down buttons to move a selected line is OK I suppose for a short list of a few items, but once there are 30-40 items in the list, I feel it's inappropriate. RR doesn't seem to have a built-in ability to do this, unless I missed it? Are there other interface techniques I could consider? Has anybody scripted drag-reordering of lists? martin baxter From bruce at lewiscoll.com Sun Feb 24 08:59:01 2002 From: bruce at lewiscoll.com (Bruce Lewis) Date: Sun Feb 24 08:59:01 2002 Subject: reordering lists In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: >Has anybody scripted drag-reordering of lists? > >martin baxter > Martin, The following is my technique for reordering in HyperCard and also for moving from field to field on a single card. This is my to do list (in various categories), calendar and generally where I spend most of my life. It shows a btn "Outliner" that is just a grey line to show where the line will go after the mouse is released. I imagine this will work in Revolution, but no doubt it can be done much more easily. Redoing it is on my list. It has evolved over almost 15 years, so on looking at it I can see improvements even within HyperCard. However, on today's machines it moves at the right speed, so there was little incentive to improve it. I use several HyperCard windowscripts in the same stack, but was not aware of the functionality you referred to. on mousedown --major revision of card & this script June 16, 1997 --flds are 15 points per line --height of flds is multiple of 15 + 8 and 13 from top & 7 between flds -- major revision April 20, 1998 to use "is within" and to do heights auto -- change heights global activeFld,wdsTBmoved if hilite of bg btn "Re-order" is true then --set up initial values put empty into activeFld put 0 into ht put the clickLine into tbMoved if tbMoved is not empty then put value of tbMoved into wdsTBmoved set the loc of cd btn Outliner to the mouseloc show cd btn Outliner repeat until the mouse is "Up" --move around to determine where item is going if activeFld is 3 then put 10 into ht else put 15 into ht end if set the loc of cd btn Outliner to the mouseh,((trunc((the mouseV)/ht)) * ht +4) localize if activeFld is not empty then --scrolling if the mouseV < (top of bg fld activeFld + 10) then wait 2 ticks set scroll of bg fld activeFld to (scroll of bg fld activeFld - 15) else if the mouseV > (bottom of bg fld activeFld - 10) then wait 2 ticks set scroll of bg fld activeFld to (scroll of bg fld activeFld + 15) end if end if end repeat --final location has been fixed, therefore: -- subtract top of fld less 15 lock screen hide cd btn Outliner if activeFld is not empty --if it is empty nothing happens then put top of cd btn Outliner - top of background field activeFld + (2*ht) into extra --item 2 of the loc put trunc((scroll of bg fld activeFld + extra)/ht) into MoveToLine if the last word of tbMoved = activeFld then if MoveToLine > word 2 of tbMoved then put wdsTBmoved & return before line MoveToLine of bg fld activeFld do "delete tbMoved" put 1 into plainAdjustFactor else do "delete tbMoved" put wdsTBmoved & return before line MoveToLine of bg fld activeFld put 0 into plainAdjustFactor end if else put wdsTBmoved & return before line MoveToLine of bg fld activeFld put 0 into plainAdjustFactor if last word of tbMoved is not 3 and activeFld is not 3 --calendar then do "delete tbMoved" end if end if repeat while last char of bg fld activeFld is return delete last char of bg fld activeFld end repeat end if end if if activeFld is 3 --calendar then set textstyle of line (MoveToLine-plainAdjustFactor) of bg fld activeFld to plain end if set dontWrap of background field "Appointments" to false end if end mousedown on localize -- major revision April 20, 1998 to use "is within" global activeFld if the mouseloc is within the rect of bg fld list then put "1" into activeFld --list else if the mouseloc is within the rect of bg fld Av then put "10" into activeFld --Av else if the mouseloc is within the rect of bg fld phone then put "6" into activeFld --phone else if the mouseloc is within the rect of bg fld short then put "7" into activeFld --short else if the mouseloc is within the rect of bg fld sec then put "8" into activeFld --sec else if the mouseloc is within the rect of bg fld "Appointments" then put "3" into activeFld --Calendar set dontWrap of background field 3 to true else if the mouseloc is within the rect of bg fld Waiting then put "9" into activeFld --Waiting else put empty into activeFld end if end if end if end if end if end if end if -- put activeFld end localize -- Bruce Lewis Lewis & Collyer 160 John Street, Suite 401 Toronto, Ontario Canada M5V 2E5 (416) 598-4357 FAX (416) 598-1067 bruce at lewiscoll.com nancy at lewiscoll.com sandy at lewiscoll.com joan at lewiscoll.com eva at lewiscoll.com From Stgecft at aol.com Sun Feb 24 10:52:00 2002 From: Stgecft at aol.com (Stgecft at aol.com) Date: Sun Feb 24 10:52:00 2002 Subject: sort stack by short id of this card Message-ID: <16b.9560058.29aa655f@aol.com> I have a stack I am scripting for work. For years I have been using this in Hypercard. It is a "Form" made of six cards (designed to print cards 1 &2 on one page, cards 3 & 4 on the next page and cards 5 &6, on the last page). I have rewriten it in transcript and am now setting it to copy itself, and sort so that I have each form in order by field "Order Number". (on mouseUp....go first .... repeat 6..new card....go next........sort stack by short id of this card) Everything works fine....untill I got to Card ID 10000. Now card id 10000 has decided it wants to be first in the card order. Now the sort stops working and new cards are placed out of the order desired. I tried inserting "Numeric", --sort stack nurmaric by short id of this card-- with no effect. The number of forms in this stack (consisting of six cards) is at 2133. The duplication of these forms has malfuntioned at 1238 (card id 10000). I still have many more to get to where I was with Hypercard. Any ideas? From rcozens at pon.net Sun Feb 24 11:11:01 2002 From: rcozens at pon.net (Rob Cozens) Date: Sun Feb 24 11:11:01 2002 Subject: avoid the standard find dialog? In-Reply-To: <6AC33BC8-2851-11D6-A1D4-003065C286B0@swissonline.ch> Message-ID: >What is the equivalent in RR to the >HyperCard handler > >on doMenu what > if what is "new card" then > go last > pass doMenu > else > pass doMenu > end if >end doMenu Hi Till, A caution from the MetaCard User Guide, p 126: "The doMenu command is provided for compatibility with HyperCard. All of the functionality accessable with the HyperCard doMenu command have equivalent commands in MetaCard, therefore use of doMenu is discouraged." As I have mentioned in a previous post, my stacks are button-driven, not menu-driven; so I can't tell you what "equivalent" system message to trap. My guess is menuPick. Rob Cozens CCW, Serendipity Software Company "And I, which was two fooles, do so grow three; Who are a little wise, the best fooles bee." from "The Triple Foole" by John Donne (1572-1631) From rcozens at pon.net Sun Feb 24 11:27:01 2002 From: rcozens at pon.net (Rob Cozens) Date: Sun Feb 24 11:27:01 2002 Subject: sort stack by short id of this card In-Reply-To: <16b.9560058.29aa655f@aol.com> Message-ID: >I have a stack I am scripting for work. For years I have been using this in >Hypercard. It is a "Form" made of six cards (designed to print cards 1 &2 on >one page, cards 3 & 4 on the next page and cards 5 &6, on the last page). I >have rewriten it in transcript and am now setting it to copy itself, and sort >so that I have each form in order by field "Order Number". (on mouseUp....go >first .... repeat 6..new card....go next........sort stack by short id of >this card) > >Everything works fine....untill I got to Card ID 10000. Now card id 10000 has >decided it wants to be first in the card order. I frankly don't understand why this works at all. You say you want the cards in order by field "Order Number" but sort the stack by the short id of each card. ?? Rob Cozens CCW, Serendipity Software Company "And I, which was two fooles, do so grow three; Who are a little wise, the best fooles bee." from "The Triple Foole" by John Donne (1572-1631) From Prodevm at aol.com Sun Feb 24 15:05:01 2002 From: Prodevm at aol.com (Prodevm at aol.com) Date: Sun Feb 24 15:05:01 2002 Subject: Creating a browser window Message-ID: <12d.d019558.29aaa0ab@aol.com> Hello, I am trying to build a simple browser in RR. However, I cannot figure out how to create the browser window; there appears to be no such icon on the tools/component palette to do this. For instance, in Visual Basic there is a WebBrowser control ? represented by a globe icon that creates a browsing window. I had asked this question a few days ago, but never really got an answer. I am new to programming and RR, so sorry if this is a stupid question. Thanks Steve prodevm at aol.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bvg at mac.com Sun Feb 24 15:25:01 2002 From: bvg at mac.com (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Bj=F6rnke_von_Gierke?=) Date: Sun Feb 24 15:25:01 2002 Subject: Creating a browser window In-Reply-To: <12d.d019558.29aaa0ab@aol.com> Message-ID: <3B3A015B-2964-11D6-9A4B-003065AD94A4@mac.com> On Sonntag, Februar 24, 2002, at 09:01 , Prodevm at aol.com wrote: > Hello, > > I am trying to build a simple browser in RR.? However, I cannot figure > out how to create the browser window; there appears to be no such icon > on the tools/component palette to do this.? > > For instance, in Visual Basic there is a WebBrowser control ? > represented by a globe icon that creates a browsing window. There is no "Browser window" like in VB. Note that both VB and iExplorer are from microsoft, and that VB uses the build in IE engine under Windows, such an approach would not work under any other OS, or when they would split them apart (only four years since the antitrust started!). What you can do however, is to show each html page in a simple textfield with the command: put URL "file:http://any.url.here.com" into field "myTextfield" BUT! this will not show anything then text. maybe even the raw source, im not shure bout that. If thats the case add the following to make rev show a styled version: put htmltext of field "myField" into text of field "myField" When you want to display pictures, tables or anything like that, you would have to get them from the html-source yourself and make a Stack which shows the mixed content (could get very complicated if you ask me). But maybe someone already did that? Another aproach would be to tell a browser to open the URL for your stack/app. view the acrobat/applescript topics in this list for input on that. hope this helps BvG -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text/enriched Size: 1789 bytes Desc: not available URL: From Prodevm at aol.com Sun Feb 24 17:03:01 2002 From: Prodevm at aol.com (Prodevm at aol.com) Date: Sun Feb 24 17:03:01 2002 Subject: Little generic arrows (id 201317) Message-ID: <179.41fa3a2.29aabc5e@aol.com> Hello, I am trying to associate the Little generic arrows (image ID 201317) with a field, to display a range in the set numbers (1-30) when clicked up or down. I have set the cTargetField to the field name, and I have set MInValue and MaxValue for the arrows button. However, when I click the arrows up or down the number displayed in the field does not change. Do I need to put something in for the script of either the button or the field? Thanks Steve -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From shaosean at unitz.ca Sun Feb 24 19:38:01 2002 From: shaosean at unitz.ca (Shao Sean) Date: Sun Feb 24 19:38:01 2002 Subject: Bug Reports go where? References: Message-ID: <004901c1bd94$51df1b30$88b15bd1@dreamlanpc> > elsewhere), using the geometry manager, try to set the horizontal personally i find the geometry manager to be buggy and to really mess up after resizing a window a few times (it works then all of a sudden it'll send my controls flying out of the visible space).. From kray at sonsothunder.com Sun Feb 24 20:03:01 2002 From: kray at sonsothunder.com (Ken Ray) Date: Sun Feb 24 20:03:01 2002 Subject: Return all paths, recursively to deepest level References: <5246647B-2905-11D6-A408-000393598038@mac.com> Message-ID: <002b01c1bd97$8cf655f0$bf0e48a6@mckinley.dom> David, Thanks for the optimizations. You're right, there were a few other things I was doing with the code. BTW: This was developed in MC, not Rev, and at the time MC's "main" function was "directories", with "folders" as a synonym. Ken Ray Sons of Thunder Software Email: kray at sonsothunder.com Web Site: http://www.sonsothunder.com/ ----- Original Message ----- From: "David Vaughan" To: Sent: Sunday, February 24, 2002 3:03 AM Subject: Re: Return all paths, recursively to deepest level > Ken > > Coincidentally, I had just stared writing a recursive directory walker > when Siva asked for one and you supplied. Very timely, thanks. > I noticed, however, that you use the construct "the directories" which > proves to be a synonym for "the folders" which is the function returned > if you search the Transcript Dictionary for "directories" or "folders". > > What other synonyms exist in Transcript and where are they documented? > Are synonyms deprecated? > > Incidentally, below is my refinement of your code to remove redundancies > (presumably from something else you were doing) and increase speed. > > regards > David > > global gHierList > > on mouseUp > put empty into gHierList > -- put empty into field 1 > answer folder "Pick a folder you want to walk:" > if it is empty then exit mouseUp > -- put it into defFold > directoryWalk it > sort gHierList > put gHierList into field 1 > -- set the defaultFolder to defFold > end mouseUp > > on directoryWalk whatFolder > set the defaultFolder to whatFolder > put the files into temp > repeat for each line x in temp > put whatFolder & "/" & x & return after gHierList > end repeat > put the folders into tDirList > repeat with x = 2 to the number of lines of tDirList > directoryWalk (whatFolder & "/" & (line x of tDirList)) > end repeat > end directoryWalk > > On Saturday, February 23, 2002, at 06:11 , Ken Ray wrote: > > > Siva, here you go: > > > > global gHierList,gMainFolder,gBaseLevels > > > > on mouseUp > > put "" into gHierList > > answer folder "Pick a folder you want to walk:" > > if it = "" then exit mouseUp > > set the itemDel to "/" > > put it into gMainFolder > > put the number of items of gMainFolder into gBaseLevels > > directoryWalk gMainFolder > > put gHierList into field 1 > > end mouseUp > > > > on directoryWalk whatFolder > > set the itemDel to "/" > > if "(2)" is in pDel then put 2 into numSpcs > > else put 4 into numSpcs > > put " " into spcPad > > set the directory to whatFolder > > put the files into temp > > sort temp > > repeat with x = 1 to the number of lines of temp > > put whatFolder & "/" & (line x of temp) into line (the number of > > lines > > of gHierList)+1 of gHierList > > end repeat > > put the directories into tDirList > > sort tDirList > > repeat with x = 2 to the number of lines of tDirList > > directoryWalk (whatFolder & "/" & (line x of tDirList)) > > end repeat > > end directoryWalk > > > > > > Enjoy! > > > > Ken Ray > > Sons of Thunder Software > > Email: kray at sonsothunder.com > > Web Site: http://www.sonsothunder.com/ > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Sivakatirswami" > > To: "Metacard List" ; > > > > Sent: Friday, February 22, 2002 11:38 PM > > Subject: Return all paths, recursively to deepest level > > > > > >> Aloha: > >> > >> I think about 2 years ago Kevin or Richard sent me a script that would > >> return the full path for all folders and files, recursively down from > >> the > >> current working directory... but I can't seem to find that script... > >> Also > > I > >> can't seem to find the archives any more for the metacard card list > > serve... > >> > >> Does anyone have such a script? One could use Rinaldi's getDir > >> external, > > and > >> just replace the ":" with "/" in the list returned but that would not > >> be > >> cross platform... the returned output from the function would look > >> like > >> this: > >> > >> MyHardDrive/MetaCard 2.3.1/ KT Stacks > >> MyHardDrive/MetaCard 2.3.1/ KT Stacks/ INNERSEARCH > >> MyHardDrive/MetaCard 2.3.1/ KT Stacks/ INNERSEARCH/Drums hi 2 > >> MyHardDrive/MetaCard 2.3.1/ KT Stacks/ INNERSEARCH/Drums hi > >> fidelity.aiff > >> MyHardDrive/MetaCard 2.3.1/ KT Stacks/ INNERSEARCH/images > >> MyHardDrive/MetaCard 2.3.1/ KT Stacks/ INNERSEARCH/images/0616001 > >> Ocean > > Sky > >> .pict > >> MyHardDrive/MetaCard 2.3.1/ KT Stacks/Dev Tools-Practice > >> MyHardDrive/MetaCard 2.3.1/ KT Stacks/Dev Tools-Practice/heim2.mc > >> > >> > >> etc. down through to the deepest sub folder and it's files. > >> > >> TIA > >> > >> Hinduism Today > >> > >> Sivakatirswami > >> Editor's Assistant/Production Manager > >> katir at hindu.org > >> www.HinduismToday.com, www.HimalayanAcademy.com, > >> www.Gurudeva.org, www.hindu.org > >> > >> Read The Master Course Lesson of the Day at > >> http://www.gurudeva.org/lesson.shtml > >> > >> _______________________________________________ > >> metacard mailing list > >> metacard at lists.runrev.com > >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/metacard > >> _______________________________________________ > >> use-revolution mailing list > >> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com > >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution > >> > > > > _______________________________________________ > > use-revolution mailing list > > use-revolution at lists.runrev.com > > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution > > > > _______________________________________________ > use-revolution mailing list > use-revolution at lists.runrev.com > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution > From brasmussen at earthlink.net Sun Feb 24 21:02:01 2002 From: brasmussen at earthlink.net (Bob Rasmussen) Date: Sun Feb 24 21:02:01 2002 Subject: wait for messages Message-ID: <3C799A6F.44A7A970@earthlink.net> Can anyone give me some insight about the "wait for messages" command? The first time I ever tried to use it, I put the following lines into a main stack script: . . . wait for messages put "done waiting" . . . I ran the script from the message box and lo and behold, nothing happened until I moved the mouse, when "done waiting" appeared in the window. "Okay. That works just as expected," I thought. The trouble is, it has never worked since! That is, "wait for messages" never waits, but proceeds immediately to the next line in the script. I've tried a number of variations (putting the wait in a button script, calling the script in a delayed send, and so on), but with no luck. My initial suspicion was that there are repeated messages similar to idle, causing "wait for messages" to proceed. I identified a small number of potential candidates, but putting in handlers in the stack script to signal if they were occurring showed nothing. By the way -- this was particularly surprising for the mouseWithin message, which seems not to follow the usual message path. That is, a mouseWithin handler in a control gets the message, but without a handler in the control, the message is not passed up the hierarchy as you would expect. I didn't find any documentation of this feature. In any event, these messages also apparently cease when the cursor is outside any window (unless that counts as within something else), but "wait for messages", nevertheless, does not wait. Do I have the wrong idea about how "wait for messages" ought to work? Why should it have worked the first time, but not subsequently? Are there messages a script can never see (or that bypass the usual message hierarchy) that, nevertheless, satisfy the wait condition of "wait for messages"? Is there a way to see what messages are causing "wait for messages" to stop waiting? Is there a way to get a message trace in general? That would be extremely useful. What does the following note in the "waitDepth" entry of the Transcript Dictionary mean? "The wait for messages form of the wait command allows Revolution to respond to messages and execute handlers while waiting." Shouldn't that be "... with messages form ..."? Otherwise, as near as I can tell, as soon as there are messages to respond to, "wait for messages" stops waiting, so how can you "execute handlers while waiting" when you're no longer waiting? The only way I can reconcile this is if Revolution always handle at least one message before resuming from "wait for messages". Is that how it works? If so, how many messages does it handle before resuming? Speaking of "waitDepth", if there are multiple waits pending, in what order to they resume? Last first? Last last? Unspecified? Does a message resume all waiting handlers, or just the next in line? I'm guessing all, if the documentation is correct, but the resumption order question still pertains. I've looked in the Revolution stacks for examples of "wait for messages". They all look something like this: . . . repeat while someStatus is empty wait for messages end repeat . . . Why wasn't the command "wait while someStatus is empty with messages" used instead? Are these equivalent? One potential difference I see is that the repeat loop won't pause for messages if the loop condition is false, while "wait while" might require at least one message to proceed, even if the condition is already false. Is that right? Sorry for being longwinded, but a detailed section in the documentation on execution order, in the presence of waits and sends, would be welcome, and I'm hoping all these questions prompt some of its contents. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From pixelbird at interisland.net Sun Feb 24 21:19:01 2002 From: pixelbird at interisland.net (Ken Norris (dialup)) Date: Sun Feb 24 21:19:01 2002 Subject: sort stack by short id of this card In-Reply-To: Message-ID: > on 2/24/02 7:48 AM, Stgecft at aol.com at Stgecft at aol.com wrote: >> I have a stack I am scripting for work. For years I have been using this in >> Hypercard. It is a "Form" made of six cards (designed to print cards 1 &2 on >> one page, cards 3 & 4 on the next page and cards 5 &6, on the last page). I >> have rewriten it in transcript and am now setting it to copy itself, and sort >> so that I have each form in order by field "Order Number". (on mouseUp....go >> first .... repeat 6..new card....go next........sort stack by short id of >> this card) >> >> Everything works fine....untill I got to Card ID 10000. Now card id 10000 has >> decided it wants to be first in the card order. on 2/24/02 8:24 AM, Rob Cozens at rcozens at pon.net wrote: > I frankly don't understand why this works at all. You say you want the > cards in order by field "Order Number" but sort the stack by the short id > of each card. ?? ---------- Rob, I'm with you. I'll be writing a new invoice form for my outdoor business, which will be similar to Mr. Stgecft's, which I'll start outlining in a day or two, but sorting by ID number is not a consideration at all. I don't know what the card limits are, or even if there are any limits, in RR, but sorting by cd ID number makes little sense to begin with. If you ever accidentally deleted or copied a card somewhere in the middle of the stack, you could fix the problem by inserting a new one in the correct position, but, if you tried to sort by ID, even in HC, the whole sequence would go to heck in a handbasket. I assume that in RR, like HC, card ID's are (or need to be, in RR?) unique, regardless of where the card is, so sequencing card ID's in a stack would HAVE to be totally intentional. That'd be cross-stack dedicated linear. Card ID's are mostly for revisiting (as in Back or Go Recent, but under script control) by storing ID numbers in a variable(s), so you can revisit any card, or selection of cards, from any other card in any stack. Are the cards grouped in any way? It's seems unwise to sort the cards in groups of 6 using their ID numbers, except by total dedication. Virtually ANY card additions or deletions in ANY stack could throw it all off. In this case, they should be sorted by order number. Each order number would automatically bring up the first card of the group with that order number (in the same stack), regardless of ID numbers. But in RR, might intentionally group them by order number as a name. That way, if ever a decision is made to have more thn 6 cards in a group, it wouldn't matter. Just a thought. As to the stack starting to renumber itself at card ID 10000, I'm just not sure. Seems like it couldn't be coincidence with such an ID number, doesn't it? Could it be a memory problem? Maybe MC/RR allocates card ID memory allowances in blocks of 100 or something similar. Best regards, Ken N. From iansummerfield at btconnect.com Sun Feb 24 21:19:14 2002 From: iansummerfield at btconnect.com (Ian Summerfield) Date: Sun Feb 24 21:19:14 2002 Subject: Little generic arrows (id 201317) In-Reply-To: <179.41fa3a2.29aabc5e@aol.com> Message-ID: On 24/2/02 9:59 pm, "Prodevm at aol.com" scribed: > Hello, > > I am trying to associate the Little generic arrows (image ID 201317) with a > field, to display a range in the set numbers (1-30) when clicked up or down. > I have set the cTargetField to the field name, and I have set MInValue and > MaxValue for the arrows button. However, when I click the arrows up or down > the number displayed in the field does not change. Do I need to put something > in for the script of either the button or the field? > > Thanks > > Steve Nothing is needed in the scripts. You should put the name of the target field in cTargetField, don?t put it in quotes or anything like that. Your destination field should have two custom properties, one called cMinValue and the other called cMaxValue. I notice you say you set the arrow buttons? No, that?s not where to put the cMinValue and cMaxValue, you put them on the field. -i- -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From pixelbird at interisland.net Sun Feb 24 23:53:01 2002 From: pixelbird at interisland.net (Ken Norris (dialup)) Date: Sun Feb 24 23:53:01 2002 Subject: wait for messages In-Reply-To: <3C799A6F.44A7A970@earthlink.net> Message-ID: on 2/24/02 6:00 PM, Bob Rasmussen at brasmussen at earthlink.net wrote: > Can anyone give me some insight about the "wait for messages" command? ---------- I'm still a long ways from understanding all the new stuff in MC/RR different from HC, but I'm betting if no pending messages exist, it will freeze until RR gets a message, which would explain why the simple handler you wrote continued only after you moved the mouse, which sent a message, of course. If anything sends any message, open a card, move the mouse, type something, any message except idle, the script will take off again as soon as RR gets it. This gives some more control to the user. Everything (but idle) stops right where it is, if they need to answer the phone, stop the coffemaker from boiling over, whatever, but if RR was in the middle of making computations, that would continue. It probably wouldn't suspend computing, but it would stop the rest of the script from running until the user hits a key or moves the mouse, like what happens with a screensaver. Just a hunch. Best regards, Ken N. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From kmajor at metascape.org Mon Feb 25 04:05:01 2002 From: kmajor at metascape.org (Klaus Major) Date: Mon Feb 25 04:05:01 2002 Subject: HELP field behavior In-Reply-To: <3C76C12B.E946C361@logilangue.com> Message-ID: <6B5804AD-29CE-11D6-872A-003065D52E8E@metascape.org> Bonjour Alain, > It is courious that I can do a lot of things within the messagebox and > it doesn't works when I include the same command or function in a > handler. > > For example, I select a line in a scroling locked field with > listBehavior turned to true, using arrow key. I type? PUT THE > HILITEDLINE OF FIELD "MaList" and the result is the number of the > hilited line.? If I type the same in a handler with? onEnterInField, > the result I get in my variable is not an integer, it is this string: > hilitedLine. So I cant refer to the line by its number. > ?I can refer to a number's line if I click on a line with the mouse. > > Is there any solution? > > Thanks > > Alain Vezina > Logilangue international For "hilitedline", append an "s" and it will work :-) It has to be "the hilitedlines of fld xxx". That will return the number of the hilited line(s) ! It has to be the plural, even if there is only one line hilited !!! Check out the "selectedlines"in this context, too. This will return something like: line 4 of field 7 So you can easily extract the desired line-number and more info... Hope this helps... A votre service et au revoir Klaus Major kmajor at metascape.org From wow at together.net Mon Feb 25 04:29:00 2002 From: wow at together.net (Richard D. Miller) Date: Mon Feb 25 04:29:00 2002 Subject: Commercial success with Rev In-Reply-To: <3C799A6F.44A7A970@earthlink.net> Message-ID: Just thought we'd let folks know we're having considerable success with our Rev program. We started distributing it about two weeks ago and have now shipped about 600 CD's to customers in 50 countries. We've had less than 10 technical support calls with no significant issues arising. Our customers are using Windows 95 through XP & NT, as well as Mac OS 9-10. The only time we've run into problems is with older Win 95 systems with 64 MB of memory...just not enough for our (graphically intense) program. For more info on our CD including screenshots, please go here: http://www.thewoodexchange/woodexplorer.html Essentially, our CD provides the most extensive source of data available on the world's commercial wood species...about 1,650 species. The data has been in development for almost ten years. The main feedback we're getting: the program is very fast. That's nice! Thanks Revolution. -- Richard Miller The Wood Exchange.info http://www.thewoodexchange.info 802-238-5355 802-951-2534 fax From pixelbird at interisland.net Mon Feb 25 04:45:00 2002 From: pixelbird at interisland.net (Ken Norris) Date: Mon Feb 25 04:45:00 2002 Subject: Commercial success with Rev In-Reply-To: Message-ID: on 2/25/02 1:26 AM, Richard D. Miller at wow at together.net wrote: > http://www.thewoodexchange/woodexplorer.html ---------- I tried this site but got no server. Problems? I'd really like to see it. Best regards, Ken N. From wow at together.net Mon Feb 25 05:06:00 2002 From: wow at together.net (Richard D. Miller) Date: Mon Feb 25 05:06:00 2002 Subject: Commercial success with Rev In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Sorry. Late at night. Here's the correct URL: http://www.thewoodexchange.info/woodexplorer.html -- Richard Miller The Wood Exchange.info http://www.thewoodexchange.info 802-238-5355 802-951-2534 fax From heather at runrev.com Mon Feb 25 05:34:00 2002 From: heather at runrev.com (Heather Williams) Date: Mon Feb 25 05:34:00 2002 Subject: Plain text posts please Message-ID: Dear all, Given the numbers of new users we have on these lists now, I thought it might not be a bad plan to make a list motherly type post. Some simple guidelines to make this list a friendly, easy to read place for all. You don't always need to quote every post in the thread you are replying to. This is becoming a pretty high traffic list, so to keep the length of the digest down, consider whether you really need to quote three pages of prettily coloured nested text showing all the posts back to the week before last in relation to the question. If you quote the entire digest, along with a request to unsubscribe, I will unsubscribe you promptly, but I will mutter unpleasant things under my breath. Most such requests are automatically screened out by the list software anyway, the proper way to unsubscribe is to use the webpage link, http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo or send me a request for help to the *admin* address at the head of every digest. use-revolution-admin at lists.runrev.com If you get the list in digest form and just hit reply, do try and change the subject line to something relevant. People find it hard to follow a thread that becomes mislabeled as "Re: digest no 6798" Please send your messages as plain text only. You should be aware that a high proportion of members are on digest mode, and if you send your post as html or other strange formatting you will be inflicting this type of gibberish on a large number of readers (I picked a sample at random): ------=_NextPart_000_00F1_01C1BBAA.4A5392B0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Awesome find, MisterX! After a little testing and tweaking (the = 'findstr'=20 is not "MAC" but "Physical Address", and 'findstr' is not supported on = Win 9x),=20 here's a replacement CROSS-PLATFORM function. Note that IPCONFIG.EXE = exists only=20 on Windows 98 and higher (including XP), but if you can include = IPCONFIG.EXE in=20 your delivery (CD/download/etc.), you can run it on Windows 95 and it = will work=20 just fine. (I don't know if Microsoft has an issue with distributing = this... you=20 should check it out.
 
function GetMACAddress
  local retVal
  switch (the = platform)
  case "MacOS"
    set the directory = to=20 specialFolderPath("apple")
    put "tell application"=20 && quote & "Apple System Profiler" & quote & cr = &=20 \
      "get appletalk address" & cr = & "end=20 tell" into getMACScript
    put "tell application" = &&=20 quote & "Apple System Profiler" & quote & cr & \
      "close window" && quote = & "Apple=20 System Profiler" & quote & cr & "end tell" into=20 quitASPScript
   
    set the = directory to=20 specialFolderPath("apple")
    do getMACScript as=20 AppleScript
    put the result into=20 retVal
    do quitASPScript as=20 AppleScript
    replace "{" with "" in=20 retVal
    replace "}" with "" in = retVal
   =20 replace quote with "" in retVal
    break
  = case=20 "Win32"
    put (there is a file = (specialFolderPath("system")=20 & "/IPCONFIG.EXE")) into winExists
    put (there = is a=20 file (specialFolderPath("system") & "/SYSTEM32/IPCONFIG.EXE")) into=20 sys32Exists
    if winExists or sys32Exists=20 then
      set the hideConsoleWindows to=20 true
      put shell("ipconfig /all") into=20 temp
      get matchText(temp,"Physical = Address. . .=20 . . . . . . : ([A-Z0-9-]*)",retVal)
   =20 else
      return "IPCONFIG not=20 found"
    end if
    = break
  end=20 switch
  return retVal
end GetMACAddress
 
Thanks, everyone!
 
Ken Ray
Sons of Thunder Software
Email: kray at sonsothunder.com
Web = Site: http://www.sonsothunder.com/
And finally, Play nice, children, Regards, Heather -- Heather Williams Runtime Revolution Ltd. Tel: +44 (0) 131 7184333 Fax: +44 (0)1639 830707 Ten Thumbs Typing Tutor Teach your Fingers to Dance From Stgecft at aol.com Mon Feb 25 05:59:01 2002 From: Stgecft at aol.com (Stgecft at aol.com) Date: Mon Feb 25 05:59:01 2002 Subject: sort stack by short id of this card Message-ID: <17d.41fa2c0.29ab7246@aol.com> >I have a stack I am scripting for work. For years I have been using this in >Hypercard. It is a "Form" made of six cards (designed to print cards 1 &2 on >one page, cards 3 & 4 on the next page and cards 5 &6, on the last page). I >have rewriten it in transcript and am now setting it to copy itself, and sort >so that I have each form in order by field "Order Number". (on mouseUp....go >first .... repeat 6..new card....go next........sort stack by short id of >this card) > >Everything works fine....untill I got to Card ID 10000. Now card id 10000 has >decided it wants to be first in the card order. I frankly don't understand why this works at all. You say you want the cards in order by field "Order Number" but sort the stack by the short id of each card. ?? Rob Cozens There are 6 cards for each (1) form. The 6 cards have the same "Index Number". In order to keep all of the cards in order they are being sortd by shot id of card. Of course this means that when they are duplicated they have to be duplicated in order. Forget that they have an "Index Number" and concentrate on the sort of id. Take my word for it. When I get to id 10000 (this card is card #3 in the cequence) the cards start to get out of sequence. Consiter that the first thing that happends is "go first". this means that card #3 is being copied fired and recieving the first id. From there on the cards are copied and sorted in the wrong order. From Stgecft at aol.com Mon Feb 25 06:15:01 2002 From: Stgecft at aol.com (Stgecft at aol.com) Date: Mon Feb 25 06:15:01 2002 Subject: sort stack by short id of this card Message-ID: <9f.23363968.29ab75f6@aol.com> In a message dated 2/24/02 9:18:00 PM, pixelbird at interisland.net writes: << As to the stack starting to renumber itself at card ID 10000, I'm just not sure. Seems like it couldn't be coincidence with such an ID number, doesn't it? Could it be a memory problem? Maybe MC/RR allocates card ID memory allowances in blocks of 100 or something similar. Best regards, Ken N. >> When this started to happen I was able to "revert to last saved" to take the stack back before the problem. Then I walked each copy untill I found where the problem occured. 10000! OK ...Now your thoughts indicate that I could group the 6 cards and use their "Index Number" to keep them in order. I assume I dont need to "go first" . Perhaps "go last" and what? ....place group X? ....or would I copy and paste group x? From scott at tactilemedia.com Mon Feb 25 06:25:01 2002 From: scott at tactilemedia.com (Scott Rossi) Date: Mon Feb 25 06:25:01 2002 Subject: sort stack by short id of this card In-Reply-To: <17d.41fa2c0.29ab7246@aol.com> Message-ID: Recently, Stgecft at aol.com wrote: >> I have a stack I am scripting for work. For years I have been using this in >> Hypercard. It is a "Form" made of six cards (designed to print cards 1 &2 on >> one page, cards 3 & 4 on the next page and cards 5 &6, on the last page). I >> have rewriten it in transcript and am now setting it to copy itself, and sort >> so that I have each form in order by field "Order Number". (on mouseUp....go >> first .... repeat 6..new card....go next........sort stack by short id of >> this card) >> >> Everything works fine....untill I got to Card ID 10000. Now card id 10000 has >> decided it wants to be first in the card order. > There are 6 cards for each (1) form. The 6 cards have the same "Index > Number". In order to keep all of the cards in order they are being sortd by > shot id of card.... When I get to id 10000 > (this card is card #3 in the cequence) the cards start to get out of > sequence. Consiter that the first thing that happends is "go first". this > means that card #3 is being copied fired and recieving the first id. From > there on the cards are copied and sorted in the wrong order. Relying on the short ID numbers seems pretty limiting. Is there any reason you can't create your own numbering system and use that to sort the cards? For example, establish a user property for each card, like "uSortNumber": set the uSortNumber of this cd to XXXXXX Each time you duplicate your cards, the user property will be duplicated with each card, so you'll have to update the numbers (properties). Then sort your stack's cards by this property: sort cards of this stack by the uSortNumber of this cd Regards, Scott Rossi Creative Director Tactile Media, Multimedia & Design Email: scott at tactilemedia.com Web: www.tactilemedia.com From rolfk at vetvir.unizh.ch Mon Feb 25 10:08:01 2002 From: rolfk at vetvir.unizh.ch (Rolf Kocherhans) Date: Mon Feb 25 10:08:01 2002 Subject: screenMouseLoc Function Message-ID: How can I set the location of the cursor under MacOS X ? The screenMouseLoc only works under MacOS 9 ! Any ideas ? Cheers Rolf From kmajor at metascape.org Mon Feb 25 10:39:01 2002 From: kmajor at metascape.org (Klaus Major) Date: Mon Feb 25 10:39:01 2002 Subject: screenMouseLoc Function In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <75A25E78-2A05-11D6-872A-003065D52E8E@metascape.org> Tach Rolf, > How can I set the location of the cursor under MacOS X ? > > The screenMouseLoc only works under MacOS 9 ! > > Any ideas ? > > Cheers > Rolf what about a little maths ? ;-) Just add the left of this stack resp. the top of this stack to loch resp. locv. Works fine ;-) Regards Klaus Major kmajor at metascape.org From dan at clearvisiontech.com Mon Feb 25 10:45:01 2002 From: dan at clearvisiontech.com (Dan Friedman) Date: Mon Feb 25 10:45:01 2002 Subject: Printing with revPrintField Message-ID: Greetings once again, I am trying to print a field with text formatted into columns. The columns are set by setting the tabStops. It looks great on screen, and "print card" prints it just fine. However, when I use: revShowPrintDialog true,true revPrintField the name of field "tText" It prints, but the columns are no longer formatted properly. Am I doing something wrong? Here's what I think is going on... If you set the tabStops to "72,162,267,348,477" for example, then the first parameter is 72, one inch on screen. However, I think that Revolution is not considering the dpi of the printer. So, if you print to a 300 dpi printer, 72 is no linger an inch. Am I right? Is this a bug? Or do I suffer from cranial-rectal inversion? Any insight would be greatly appreciated. Thank you! Dan Friedman From rcozens at pon.net Mon Feb 25 11:13:01 2002 From: rcozens at pon.net (Rob Cozens) Date: Mon Feb 25 11:13:01 2002 Subject: sort stack by short id of this card In-Reply-To: <17d.41fa2c0.29ab7246@aol.com> Message-ID: >There are 6 cards for each (1) form. The 6 cards have the same "Index >Number". In order to keep all of the cards in order they are being sortd by >shot id of card. Of course this means that when they are duplicated they >have to be duplicated in order. Forget that they have an "Index Number" and >concentrate on the sort of id. I am, and that's what troubles me: * When you create a new card, it is assigned a random, unique id. * When you create six new cards: a. You will not get the same 6 card ids that were in the original HC stack, and b. You have no guarentee the id#s will be be consecutive, or even in ascending order. * I see no relation between "Index Number" & the card id; so how can sorting by id get the cards in Index Number order?. * If the HC stack is in the correct order, you only need to create the cards in the new stack in the same order and no sort is necessary. Rob Cozens CCW, Serendipity Software Company "And I, which was two fooles, do so grow three; Who are a little wise, the best fooles bee." from "The Triple Foole" by John Donne (1572-1631) From steve at messimercomputing.com Mon Feb 25 11:30:01 2002 From: steve at messimercomputing.com (Steve Messimer) Date: Mon Feb 25 11:30:01 2002 Subject: finding topics already discussed Message-ID: Hi, I have been a member of the use and improve lists for several months now. I have found the quality of the discourse here to be outstanding. It would be wonderful if there were some efficient way to find information posted in the past. Often times I will see information that I realize will be useful in the future but is unrelated to the issue or issues on which I am currently working. Going back to my archives of the list at a later date and searching for that information is VERY time consumming and in some cases unrewarding. Is there any way to search past submissions short of creating a database and dumping each submission in a separate record. It occurs to me that this search feature could be added to the RR Website. Doing this would allow developers to check through all the submissions on a particular topic before sending in a submission that most likely has been addressed at some point in the past. It should also free up some time for Jeanne and others to work on more current problems. Just a thought. Regards Steve Stephen R. Messimer Messimer Computing, Inc 2501 14th Ave South Escanaba, MI 49829 www.messimercomputing.com From devin_asay at byu.edu Mon Feb 25 11:34:00 2002 From: devin_asay at byu.edu (Devin Asay) Date: Mon Feb 25 11:34:00 2002 Subject: tools and commands relating to the web In-Reply-To: <189.3c6a6dc.29a84565@aol.com> References: <189.3c6a6dc.29a84565@aol.com> Message-ID: At 8:07 PM -0500 2/22/02, PERPHARMACEUTIC at aol.com wrote: >I visited your site (nice), you have a lot of valuable-related >information there; I will definitely be reviewing your lessons. I >am still puzzled over how to create a browser field (for building a >browser); all I can find on the tools palette are standard text >fields/boxes. In fact, you don't need a special type of field to display formatted html text; any field can do it. > >Or, are you saying that by using the htmlText function, that when >you get a URL address, a regular text field/box will display the >actual web page, not just the html code? Exactly, just set the htmlText of fld "myField" to URL > >Also, what Rev command would be used in a browser to refresh; would >just repeating the get URL command accomplish this? Right, you'd have to do that manually. Rev provides the basic tools for displaying web pages, not the niceties we're used to in web browsers. Those you'd have to build in yourself. Steve, if you'd like I'll email you a copy of the stackfile (72KB) I used to demonstrate some of these concepts to my students. Email me offlist if you're interested. Devin -- Devin Asay Humanities Research Center Brigham Young University From kevin at runrev.com Mon Feb 25 12:00:01 2002 From: kevin at runrev.com (Kevin Miller) Date: Mon Feb 25 12:00:01 2002 Subject: finding topics already discussed In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On 25/2/02 4:27 pm, Steve Messimer wrote: > I have been a member of the use and improve lists for several months now. I > have found the quality of the discourse here to be outstanding. It would be > wonderful if there were some efficient way to find information posted in the > past. Often times I will see information that I realize will be useful in > the future but is unrelated to the issue or issues on which I am currently > working. Going back to my archives of the list at a later date and > searching for that information is VERY time consumming and in some cases > unrewarding. > > Is there any way to search past submissions short of creating a database and > dumping each submission in a separate record. It occurs to me that this > search feature could be added to the RR Website. > > Doing this would allow developers to check through all the submissions on a > particular topic before sending in a submission that most likely has been > addressed at some point in the past. It should also free up some time for > Jeanne and others to work on more current problems. > > Just a thought. Its a good one and we should do it, though there are other enhancements coming along first. Thanks for the suggestion. Kevin Kevin Miller Runtime Revolution Limited - Power to the Developer! Tel: +44 (0) 870 747 1165. Fax: +44 (0)1639 830 707. From kevin at runrev.com Mon Feb 25 12:00:27 2002 From: kevin at runrev.com (Kevin Miller) Date: Mon Feb 25 12:00:27 2002 Subject: Printing with revPrintField In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On 25/2/02 2:42 pm, Dan Friedman wrote: > Greetings once again, > > I am trying to print a field with text formatted into columns. The columns > are set by setting the tabStops. It looks great on screen, and "print card" > prints it just fine. However, when I use: > > revShowPrintDialog true,true > revPrintField the name of field "tText" > > It prints, but the columns are no longer formatted properly. Am I doing > something wrong? > > Here's what I think is going on... If you set the tabStops to > "72,162,267,348,477" for example, then the first parameter is 72, one inch > on screen. However, I think that Revolution is not considering the dpi of > the printer. So, if you print to a 300 dpi printer, 72 is no linger an > inch. Am I right? Is this a bug? Or do I suffer from cranial-rectal > inversion? > > Any insight would be greatly appreciated. This glitch will be fixed in the final shipping version of 1.1.1. Thanks for the report. Kevin Kevin Miller Runtime Revolution Limited - Power to the Developer! Tel: +44 (0) 870 747 1165. Fax: +44 (0)1639 830 707. From jplam at netrin.com Mon Feb 25 12:10:00 2002 From: jplam at netrin.com (Jim Lambert) Date: Mon Feb 25 12:10:00 2002 Subject: Plain text posts please In-Reply-To: <200202251546.KAA21895@www.runrev.com> Message-ID: Heather, Thanks for the list use guidelines and 'motherly' advice! Jim Lambert From Stgecft at aol.com Mon Feb 25 13:27:01 2002 From: Stgecft at aol.com (Stgecft at aol.com) Date: Mon Feb 25 13:27:01 2002 Subject: finding topics already discussed Message-ID: <16.1ac1def7.29abdb37@aol.com> Steve, I totally agree. I will look forward to seeing if someone responds with this information. I currently go through each e-mail and copy and past what I might need in the future into a stack called "Reference" Attach a find button and retreve it when needed. Randy Kent Stagecraft, Inc. From pixelbird at interisland.net Mon Feb 25 13:58:00 2002 From: pixelbird at interisland.net (Ken Norris (dialup)) Date: Mon Feb 25 13:58:00 2002 Subject: finding topics already discussed In-Reply-To: Message-ID: on 2/25/02 8:56 AM, Kevin Miller at kevin at runrev.com wrote: > On 25/2/02 4:27 pm, Steve Messimer wrote: >> Is there any way to search past submissions short of creating a database and >> dumping each submission in a separate record. It occurs to me that this >> search feature could be added to the RR Website. ---------- > Its a good one and we should do it, though there are other enhancements > coming along first. > > Thanks for the suggestion. ---------- I rarely use the group website for reading or posting. Too slow, extraneous ads, etc. Do you mean to say there is no archive access like the HC list has? No wonder there is so much redundant activity on the list. If you don't have archive space at Yahoo, then you should save yourselves a lot of grief and make one immediately. Best regards, Ken N. From martin at atwork.bdx.co.uk Mon Feb 25 14:04:01 2002 From: martin at atwork.bdx.co.uk (Martin Baxter) Date: Mon Feb 25 14:04:01 2002 Subject: reordering lists Message-ID: >>Has anybody scripted drag-reordering of lists? >>martin baxter > >Bruce Lewis wrote: >The following is my technique for reordering in HyperCard and also for >moving from field to field on a single card.... Thanks for your script Bruce, it got me thinking, though isn't quite the same thing that I was thinking of since it is also for dragging a line from field to field, and I want to drag a line (only) within the original field, with the drag selection constrained. > >I imagine this will work in Revolution, but no doubt it can be done much >more easily. Not as easy as you'd think, in fact it has me beat so far. Rejecting the grab command because it couldn't be constrained, I tried to implement a similar thing by using rev's mousemove message. Dragging a rect as a selection outline (I added a nice insertion line as well) and constraining it to the field worked nicely, but though I've tried to get the field to scroll in the way I need, I'm defeated on that in the end I think. It seems that a revolution listfield (with "autohilite" "listbehaviour" + "click to toggle" checkboxes all true) wants to scroll the hilited line to the vertical centre of the field, at all times, and of course that's really undesirable here, I want it to stay where it was when I clicked it, unless I'm actually dragging and the field needs to scroll to bring other lines into view, which is what I'm used to in HC, windowscript, and in fact all other mac apps that let you 'peel off' a line from a scrolling field. Sigh... if I anybody knows a way to subvert this "feature"... Because of the built in behaviours of a list field I also found that I had to take control of line hiliting myself (I wanted the clicked line to hilite and stay that way when I dragged). Scrolling and mousemove didn't really go together very happily because a) no scrolling occurred when the mouse was moved above or below the field and b) if I tried to take control and do it myself, the field fought back to force the selected line dead centre. I had a brief look at turning off list behaviour and so on, and doing everything by hand, but after some fruitless minutes I remebered that I'm using revolution because alas, I don't have the time to get into that kind of thing, and so at that point I admitted defeat and gave up ;-) >I use several HyperCard windowscripts in the same stack, but was not aware >of the functionality you referred to. It's true that like several useful things in WindowScript the "drag" setting is a little bit hidden, being in the same popup as the single/multiple/contiguous 'selection options' for a listfield, not perhaps where you would intuitively look for it. martin baxter m a r t i n martin baxter Cambridge UK From devin_asay at byu.edu Mon Feb 25 14:16:00 2002 From: devin_asay at byu.edu (Devin Asay) Date: Mon Feb 25 14:16:00 2002 Subject: Is there a Message Watcher In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: One of my favorite HC development tools is the Message Watcher. I've looked for this but haven't found anything equivalent in Rev. Am I just overlooking something? -- Devin Asay Humanities Research Center Brigham Young University From pixelbird at interisland.net Mon Feb 25 14:17:00 2002 From: pixelbird at interisland.net (Ken Norris (dialup)) Date: Mon Feb 25 14:17:00 2002 Subject: Plain text posts please In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Hi Heather, Thanks mom... ---------- on 2/25/02 2:31 AM, Heather Williams at heather at runrev.com wrote: > You don't always need to quote every post in the thread you are replying to. > This is becoming a pretty high traffic list, so to keep the length of the > digest down, consider whether you really need to quote three pages of > prettily coloured nested text showing all the posts back to the week before > last in relation to the question. ---------- This is how I do it, i.e., I use 'snip' lines between the parts I want to respond to, and delete the rest. However, I think one of the reasons people are leaving in the past posts to the threads here is because its the only way to follow it, since there are apparently no archives to refer to. I've had to come back and ask questions that were answered just two days before in part of an RE that was deleted when a thread's subject line was changed. PLEASE, PLEASE, PLEASE: ARCHIVE THIS LIST. If you were using it to learn, like many of us, you'd see the value of that immediately. ---------- > And finally, Play nice, children, ---------- Always. I didn't mean to yell, I was just emphasizing. Warmest regards, Ken N. From niklas_almesjo at yahoo.com Mon Feb 25 14:17:12 2002 From: niklas_almesjo at yahoo.com (Niklas Almesjö) Date: Mon Feb 25 14:17:12 2002 Subject: mySQL In-Reply-To: <200202251702.MAA25248@www.runrev.com> Message-ID: <20020225191504.63590.qmail@web12306.mail.yahoo.com> I am trying to get a grip on how to work with databases from Rev. Kinda new to databases, but I've gotten mySQL up and running. But I can't connect to it from Rev (using the database-manager). Is there any tutorial for this? Specifically I can't figure out what what to put in the hostfield? /Niklas __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Sports - Coverage of the 2002 Olympic Games http://sports.yahoo.com From saultsj at missouri.edu Mon Feb 25 14:59:01 2002 From: saultsj at missouri.edu (J. Scott Saults) Date: Mon Feb 25 14:59:01 2002 Subject: Polling the mouse In-Reply-To: <200202230038.TAA30486@www.runrev.com> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020225123820.00a650f0@pop.email.missouri.edu> Fri, 22 Feb 2002 13:22:55 -0700 Scott Raney wrote >But did you actually try this? It *doesn't* work that way in either >MC or HC now. If you don't see it, try increasing the loop count (you >may need to at one zero for HC, and about 3 in MC/RR ;-) > >My real question is, given that you're confused about this, how many >other people must be, and if a lot, does this behavior really need to >be preserved? Scott & Geoff, Sorry! I THOUGHT I'd tried it in HC, but I must have done something WRONG. HyperCard does return "down" after the mouse button has been clicked during the loop, even though it is actually up when the script gets "the mouse." Geoff 's step-by-step explanation helped me see this. I'd not understood the implications of this exception to the way "the mouse" seemed to work. I apologize for posting my mistake, but thanks for the correction. The the mouse function seems to check some kind of event queue, rather than actually checking the state of the mouse button. Obviously, the mouse is more complicated than I thought, but maybe most people are not as easily confused as me. During this subsequent testing, I discovered a couple of other curiosities, for what it's worth. SuperCard 3.6 SEEMS to behave more consistently than MC or HC, because it does, according to my tests, return "up" even after clicking during the loop of Scott's script. Also, a slight modification to the 'put' command in Scott's script (below)actually causes HyperCard to put "down up" when the mouse is clicked during the loop and then not pressed again ! Weird. on mouseUp get 0 repeat for 10000 times add 1 to it end repeat put the mouse && the mouse end mouseUp My 2?? Revolution should drop "the mouse" function, unless it can be made to work in a reliable, predictable way, as documented. I can live without it. Scott Saults From drvaughan55 at mac.com Mon Feb 25 16:46:01 2002 From: drvaughan55 at mac.com (David Vaughan) Date: Mon Feb 25 16:46:01 2002 Subject: finding topics already discussed In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Steve > Is there any way to search past submissions short of creating a > database and > dumping each submission in a separate record. It occurs to me that this > search feature could be added to the RR Website. I appreciate that Kevin says it is on their downstream list but there are two other suggestions for you in the mean time. Randy suggests use the tools you have - copy the data to a Rev stack and use its Find and Match functions, which makes sense. My own solution is more platform-dependent, in that I simply save any potentially interesting post on disk and use Sherlock's content search to find even oblique references. If you are not on a Mac you can mix the methods by saving relevant files to disk (faster than copy-paste) and using your newly-minted database Rev stack to auto-read and delete all files in that directory at intervals, saving you a bit of effort creating the database. > Just a thought. > regards David > Regards > > Steve > > Stephen R. Messimer > Messimer Computing, Inc > 2501 14th Ave South > Escanaba, MI 49829 > www.messimercomputing.com > > > _______________________________________________ > use-revolution mailing list > use-revolution at lists.runrev.com > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution > From bvlahos at jpl.nasa.gov Mon Feb 25 17:16:01 2002 From: bvlahos at jpl.nasa.gov (Bill Vlahos) Date: Mon Feb 25 17:16:01 2002 Subject: Commercial success with Rev In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Congratulations. Bill On Monday, February 25, 2002, at 01:26 AM, Richard D. Miller wrote: > Just thought we'd let folks know we're having considerable success with > our > Rev program. > > We started distributing it about two weeks ago and have now shipped > about > 600 CD's to customers in 50 countries. We've had less than 10 technical > support calls with no significant issues arising. Our customers are > using > Windows 95 through XP & NT, as well as Mac OS 9-10. The only time we've > run > into problems is with older Win 95 systems with 64 MB of memory...just > not > enough for our (graphically intense) program. > > Essentially, our CD provides the most extensive source of data > available on > the world's commercial wood species...about 1,650 species. The data has > been > in development for almost ten years. > > The main feedback we're getting: the program is very fast. That's nice! From JacksHyperInfo at aol.com Mon Feb 25 20:10:01 2002 From: JacksHyperInfo at aol.com (JacksHyperInfo at aol.com) Date: Mon Feb 25 20:10:01 2002 Subject: Ready-made buttons and fields Message-ID: <8f.17cab847.29ac39c3@aol.com> It would be great if one of you knowledgeable rev people would create a stack of ready made buttons and ready made fields. Some of you remember that hypercard included these in their software. These sure would help beginning programers. They could be posted for download at Runrev. Anybody interested. Jack -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From drvaughan55 at mac.com Mon Feb 25 20:14:05 2002 From: drvaughan55 at mac.com (David Vaughan) Date: Mon Feb 25 20:14:05 2002 Subject: wait for messages In-Reply-To: <3C799A6F.44A7A970@earthlink.net> Message-ID: OK, I've waited a bit for a Transcript guru to answer Bob's questions (in shortened form below) but nothing has clarified this so far. So I tried a couple of experiments myself, effectively replicating Bob's results. These are two of my tests: In the stack I put this idle handler (oh shame!) on idle global gFrog add 1 to gFrog end idle and in a button this script: on mouseUp global gFrog put zero into gFrog put empty into field 1 put empty into field 2 repeat with i = 1 to 50 wait for messages put i & comma after field 2 put gFrog & comma after field 1 end repeat end mouseUp The result was that messages continue to flow during the repeat loop, but only slowly, a shade faster than the idle message (and therefore it was not the idle message, as promised by the documentation). If I moved the mouse during the loop then it accelerated dramatically. I ditched the idle script and changed the button script to: on mouseUp put empty into field 1 put empty into field 2 put the ticks into tickTime repeat with i = 1 to 50 wait for messages put (the ticks - tickTime) & comma after field 2 put the ticks into tickTime end repeat put average(field 2) into field 1 end mouseUp Being careful not to move the mouse, I clicked the button and saw tick delays of 6,17 and 32 for the first three instances after which it settled down to 30 tick intervals with the occasional 29 (average 29 ticks). Wriggling the mouse accelerated the loop to 1-2 tick delays. So, part of the answer seems to be that "wait for messages" will wait up to 30 ticks for a message and then continue processing anyway. In fact, it may wait only 6 or so ticks on the first pass. This is not what the documentation says, and also leaves the value of the construct rather uncertain. Incidentally, in a separate test I found that waitDepth remained at 1 before, during and after a loop such as the above. This seems correct if it means that only the mouseUp handler was executing. Is there any further enlightenment that can be offered on the "Wait for messages" command please? I am comfortable at the moment with the "with messages" form. Unless further experiments have offered him enlightenment, Bob is probably still pretty curious too. regards David On Monday, February 25, 2002, at 01:00 , Bob Rasmussen wrote: > Can anyone give me some insight about the "wait for messages" > command??Is there a way to see what messages are causing "wait for > messages" to stop waiting? > > Is there a way to get a message trace in general?? That would be > extremely useful. Devin Asay asked for a Message Watcher today. I didn't use it much in HC but it would certainly have been useful here. > > What does the following note in the "waitDepth" entry of the Transcript > Dictionary mean? > > ?? "The wait for messages form of the wait command allows Revolution to > respond to > ??? messages and execute handlers while waiting." > > Speaking of "waitDepth", if there are multiple waits pending, in what > order to they resume?? Last first?? Last last?? Unspecified? > > Does a message resume all waiting handlers, or just the next in line?? > I'm guessing all, if the documentation is correct, but the resumption > order question still pertains. > > I've looked in the Revolution stacks for examples of "wait for > messages".? They all look something like this: > > ??? . . . > ??? repeat while someStatus is empty > ????? wait for messages > ??? end repeat > ? -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text/enriched Size: 3524 bytes Desc: not available URL: From drvaughan55 at mac.com Mon Feb 25 20:28:09 2002 From: drvaughan55 at mac.com (David Vaughan) Date: Mon Feb 25 20:28:09 2002 Subject: wait for messages In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Tuesday, February 26, 2002, at 12:11 , David Vaughan wrote various things readable in the previous post by me under this title :-) Replying to myself ;-) ... of course the "wait {N time} with messages" will wait the time you define while allowing other actions, and is not accelerated by those actions, whereas "wait {N time}" simply waits. None of this makes "wait for messages", apparently meaning a random time up to half a second, very useful ... so far. regards David From wow at together.net Mon Feb 25 20:49:01 2002 From: wow at together.net (Richard D. Miller) Date: Mon Feb 25 20:49:01 2002 Subject: Commercial success with Rev In-Reply-To: Message-ID: > Congratulations. > > Bill Thanks. I've worked with a lot of Hypertalk-derived tools since Hypercard first came out. I've used Toolbook on the Windows side and Hypercard, Supercard, Oracle Media Objects, and now Rev on the Mac side. What Rev has done, and is trying to do, is no easy task. The latest version I'm using has its share of bugs, no doubt about it. But the concept is great and the implementation, at this stage of the game, is very good. I'm sure the next version will be great. Compared to all the other programs I mentioned, Rev has an exceptional range of functionality. I'm continually amazed at the thinking that went in to the creation of this software. Even the pieces that don't work, clearly show that the designers know what the programming community needs to make our work easier and more productive. My guess is they focused on getting the basic tools up and running so that it is possible to produce commercial products now, even while working around the bugs. Like a lot of other experienced Hypertalk programmers, I've learned there are numerous ways to address most programming issues. If one way doesn't work (often because of bugs still being working out), there's probably a different solution that does. I'm sure a lot of newer Rev programmers are probably frustrated with some aspects of Rev, but my experience has told me one learns a great deal by trying to work around these issues and find solutions. Of course, it's so much easier these days having an incredible support community like we have here on this listserve. What I wouldn't have given for this 15 years ago.... While it's true it took my company years to develop the data for our CD, we only started to actually work on the production of the CD about six weeks ago. It took three weeks to create...from scratch...a version we felt comfortable selling to our customers. There's no way that could have happened without a great product like Revolution. I hope those folks get all the support they need, because Rev could become a truly revolutionary tool for us all. -- Richard Miller The Wood Exchange.info http://www.thewoodexchange.info 802-238-5355 802-951-2534 fax > > On Monday, February 25, 2002, at 01:26 AM, Richard D. Miller wrote: > >> Just thought we'd let folks know we're having considerable success with >> our >> Rev program. >> >> We started distributing it about two weeks ago and have now shipped >> about >> 600 CD's to customers in 50 countries. We've had less than 10 technical >> support calls with no significant issues arising. Our customers are >> using >> Windows 95 through XP & NT, as well as Mac OS 9-10. The only time we've >> run >> into problems is with older Win 95 systems with 64 MB of memory...just >> not >> enough for our (graphically intense) program. >> >> Essentially, our CD provides the most extensive source of data >> available on >> the world's commercial wood species...about 1,650 species. The data has >> been >> in development for almost ten years. >> >> The main feedback we're getting: the program is very fast. That's nice! > > _______________________________________________ > use-revolution mailing list > use-revolution at lists.runrev.com > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution From katir at hindu.org Mon Feb 25 21:39:01 2002 From: katir at hindu.org (Sivakatirswami) Date: Mon Feb 25 21:39:01 2002 Subject: apply the profile of one button to another Message-ID: Let me try to restate this in the bare-est of terms as so far I can't figure it out Make a button, set a profile with attributes call it "MacOSstandard" Now, how does one apply this to another button(s)? should be simple I know, but somehow, it is escaping me. Hinduism Today Sivakatirswami Editor's Assistant/Production Manager katir at hindu.org www.HinduismToday.com, www.HimalayanAcademy.com, www.Gurudeva.org, www.hindu.org Read The Master Course Lesson of the Day at http://www.gurudeva.org/lesson.shtml From ambassador at FourthWorld.com Mon Feb 25 22:07:01 2002 From: ambassador at FourthWorld.com (Richard Gaskin) Date: Mon Feb 25 22:07:01 2002 Subject: Is there a Message Watcher In-Reply-To: <200202260115.UAA03762@www.runrev.com> Message-ID: Devin Asay asks: > One of my favorite HC development tools is the Message Watcher. I've > looked for this but haven't found anything equivalent in Rev. Am I > just overlooking something? There isn't one in the package, but I built something similar named "UmbrellaMan" which lets you selet any of Rev's messages and trap them like raindrop to run down its console window before continuing on their path. You can download UmbrellaMan at -- Richard Gaskin Fourth World Media Corporation Custom Software and Web Development for All Major Platforms Developer of WebMerge 1.9: Publish any Database on Any Site ___________________________________________________________ Ambassador at FourthWorld.com http://www.FourthWorld.com Tel: 323-225-3717 AIM: FourthWorldInc From scott at tactilemedia.com Mon Feb 25 22:17:00 2002 From: scott at tactilemedia.com (Scott Rossi) Date: Mon Feb 25 22:17:00 2002 Subject: apply the profile of one button to another In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Recently, Sivakatirswami wrote: > Let me try to restate this in the bare-est of terms as so far I can't figure > it out > > Make a button, set a profile with attributes call it "MacOSstandard" > > Now, how does one apply this to another button(s)? > > should be simple I know, but somehow, it is escaping me. Sounds like you could use the templateButton... Regards, Scott Rossi Creative Director Tactile Media, Multimedia & Design Email: scott at tactilemedia.com Web: www.tactilemedia.com From drvaughan55 at mac.com Mon Feb 25 23:06:01 2002 From: drvaughan55 at mac.com (David Vaughan) Date: Mon Feb 25 23:06:01 2002 Subject: wait for messages In-Reply-To: <3C799A6F.44A7A970@earthlink.net> Message-ID: Bob I think we can now answer some of your questions: > Why should it have worked the first time, but not subsequently? In my experience, it never waited (in the indefinite sense) and I have no idea why it waited for you even once. Your system had some coincidental activity that slowed it down at the critical moment? > > Are there messages a script can never see (or that bypass the usual > message hierarchy) that, nevertheless, satisfy the wait condition of > "wait for messages"? I doubt it. It just seems to time out after a period up to 500ms. > > Is there a way to see what messages are causing "wait for messages" to > stop waiting? Thanks to Richard Gaskin's Umbrellaman, just posted, I checked and there are no known messages causing it to time out. It just stops, as I said above. > > Is there a way to get a message trace in general?? That would be > extremely useful. Indeed it is. Check Richard's post and stack. > > What does the following note in the "waitDepth" entry of the Transcript > Dictionary mean? > > ?? "The wait for messages form of the wait command allows Revolution to > respond to > ??? messages and execute handlers while waiting." As I said in my earlier post on this, "wait N time" stops other handlers while it waits whereas "wait for messages" allows them to execute while it waits up to half a second, and "wait N time with messages" waits that time while allowing other events and handlers to execute. > > Shouldn't that be "... with messages form ..."? ...well, that is more useful, I think. > snip > Speaking of "waitDepth", if there are multiple waits pending, in what > order to they resume?? Last first?? Last last?? Unspecified? It appears to me that the waitDepth shows the number of handlers executing, not the messages waiting. This is pretty much what the documentation says. The tests above (one button) showed a waitDepth of 1 while the test below (used two buttons, waiting one while pressing another) showed a waitDepth of 2. > > Does a message resume all waiting handlers, or just the next in line?? > I'm guessing all, if the documentation is correct, but the resumption > order question still pertains. > > I've looked in the Revolution stacks for examples of "wait for > messages".? They all look something like this: > > ??? . . . > ??? repeat while someStatus is empty > ????? wait for messages > ??? end repeat > ??? . . . > > Why wasn't the command "wait while someStatus is empty with messages" > used instead? Can't answer for why, but... > ? Are these equivalent?? ...they are not equivalent. The "wait while...with messages" construct will barrel along handling all messages and executing all handlers other than the one with the wait statement, until the wait is satisfied when it, too, will resume. A "wait for messages" form will continue execution of that handler after 500ms even where nothing else has happened. > One potential difference I see is that the repeat loop won't pause for > messages if the loop condition is false, while "wait while" might > require at least one message to proceed, even if the condition is > already false.? Is that right? No, it isn't. The condition is checked immediately and, if false, processing continues. > > Sorry for being longwinded, but a detailed section in the documentation > on execution order, in the presence of waits and sends, would be > welcome, and I'm hoping all these questions prompt some of its contents. Execution order is the usual chronological order of events (and their messages). It is not mucked around by wait except to the extent that a script is halted in certain usages or that other handlers can execute during that time, but, again, in their natural order. > All my comments are research-based, not guru-given, so forgive me for any errors, omissions or lack of clarity. My tentative conclusion, incidentally, is that "wait...with messages" is great and "wait for messages" is useless. Whether or not the last is true, the documentation on it needs improvement. regards David -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text/enriched Size: 4245 bytes Desc: not available URL: From terry at discovery.nl Tue Feb 26 00:05:01 2002 From: terry at discovery.nl (Terry Vogelaar) Date: Tue Feb 26 00:05:01 2002 Subject: Ready-made buttons and fields In-Reply-To: <8f.17cab847.29ac39c3@aol.com> Message-ID: > It would be great if one of you knowledgeable rev people would create a stack > of ready made buttons and ready made fields. Some of you remember that > hypercard included these in their software. These sure would help beginning > programers. They could be posted for download at Runrev. Anybody > interested. It should be mentioned that RR has more ready-to-use stuff than HC, because RR has a whole series of field tools instead of one. That counts for the button tools as well. Besides that, there is the library with some prefab stuff. Then again, I miss some items like an example on how the progress bar works (you rev people probably thought that because RR is so fast, nobody would use a progress bar ;-). Other things I like to see in the library are: - images in text fields - a standard menubar with all the commonly used items properly working (new, close, save, print, quit, undo, cut, copy, paste, find, help, about) - a standard toolbar with those same items - a good script that dims/disables the items in the toolbar/menubar that are not available - read and write data to a properly formatted XML file that uses a DTD These are things that kept me occupied quite a while. Most of them are solved, some others (like dimming 'undo' when not available) not. I am working on XML handling at the moment, because I think XML should be the way all data should be stored. Terry From kray at sonsothunder.com Tue Feb 26 02:38:01 2002 From: kray at sonsothunder.com (Ken Ray) Date: Tue Feb 26 02:38:01 2002 Subject: reordering lists References: Message-ID: <005a01c1be97$eae10880$370e48a6@mckinley.dom> Martin, > It seems that a revolution listfield (with "autohilite" "listbehaviour" + > "click to toggle" checkboxes all true) wants to scroll the hilited line to > the vertical centre of the field, at all times, and of course that's really > undesirable here, I want it to stay where it was when I clicked it, unless > I'm actually dragging and the field needs to scroll to bring other lines > into view, which is what I'm used to in HC, windowscript, and in fact all > other mac apps that let you 'peel off' a line from a scrolling field. > > Sigh... if I anybody knows a way to subvert this "feature"... I'm glad you brought this up. I ran into the same behavior in attempting to create a table object. I would sincerely recommend that Rev/MC change this "feature" so that it only scrolls if the hilite is at the bottom or top of the field. Ken Ray Sons of Thunder Software Email: kray at sonsothunder.com Web Site: http://www.sonsothunder.com/ From curry at kagi.com Tue Feb 26 03:49:01 2002 From: curry at kagi.com (Curry) Date: Tue Feb 26 03:49:01 2002 Subject: Polling the mouse In-Reply-To: <200202260115.UAA03762@www.runrev.com> Message-ID: Scott Saults wrote: > My 2?? Revolution should drop "the mouse" function, unless it can be made > to work in a reliable, predictable way, as documented. I can live without it. Why not take the second option? I say make it work in a reliable way--let it just indicate the real-time mouse button position with a direct call. Drop the HyperCard compatibility rather than dropping the function. (After all, you'd lose a lot more compatibility by removing the whole thing than by altering the behavior to be more straightforward and logical.) I would rather have the mouse give the real position of the mouse--all these buffered behaviors make no sense! As it has been pointed out, most of us don't know the complex behaviors anyway and just expect it to give the mouse value as it is at the time of being called. Surely no one would mind if the behavior is changed, since the alternative considered is to get rid of the whole thing! I already told myself I'd shut up already on this issue after the last post, but sometimes I muddle through a few posts without explaining my intended point as clearly as I tried to, so here goes one more final shot at it. These poor under-appreciated functions are part of the heart and soul of xTalk, allowing us to handle the most common types of interactions in a very intuitive fashion that's easy to learn and convenient to use--without umpteen separate handlers for ups, downs, moves, etc. Come on, people, you'd really rather do that than just say "until the mouse is up" or "if the mouse is down" or "get the mouseH"? Are you really looking at how much you'll be losing? Just because HyperCard made the implementation imperfect and a pain to continue to support compatibly doesn't mean that the concept, syntax, and functionality isn't perfect; it is. Rather than dropping these functions and statements that use these functions, I suggest that MetaCard alter the inner workings and behavior to match what MetaCard needs, and forget about the complex HC behavior. I would prefer simple, direct polling that showed the true state, but something else close to that would also be fine--whatever works for MetaCard, as close to true polling as possible. Then, as far as I could tell, everyone could be happy--people who like separate handlers for OS-friendliness or personal style could use them to their heart's content and pretend the functions no longer exist; people who appreciate the stylish and convenient power of the traditional statements could enjoy them and make good use of them; and hopefully the MetaCard team would have a straightforward way of implementing them that would be a lot easier to support and remove the current problems. I'm a big believer in these functions. They are a familiar and IMHO necessary part of scripting, and other competitive languages for the non-C++ audience, like BASIC, have similar functions. Having two ways to handle these types of interaction--in separate specific handlers and with functions inside other handlers--is the norm. So we need to have both ways too. If the tiny details of the traditional implementation cause problems, it's the tiny details that need to go, but the functions really need to stay. Well, that's it, I'm zipping it! I hope I've made a good case for the survival of these "endangered species" of precious keywords. Thanks, Curry Kenworthy From sims at ezpzapps.com Tue Feb 26 04:17:01 2002 From: sims at ezpzapps.com (sims) Date: Tue Feb 26 04:17:01 2002 Subject: answer error problem In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Problem: When the answer error pops up, I have to click it twice in order to dismiss it. The cursor appears as a hand prior to first click... The cursor turns into an iBeam after the first click and stays an iBeam while over the "OK" button unless moved - if moved, it becomes a hand and can then click 'OK' This is on a Mac if that makes any difference. This does not happen in Rev editing mode but does occur opened from an 'opener' standalone (this is a Rev file in which I want any changes to it to be saved). The 'answer' error appears over an area which has the following layered items (starting with bottom to top): cd > image > either a player object or another image > opaque text field It occurs if the text field focus is or is not enabled. on menuPick what if the selectedText of fld "text" is "" then answer error "You must select (hilite) text before you can change the text style" exit menuPick else end if set the label of me to what put what into tStyle put the textStyle of the selectedText into tOldStyle set the textStyle of the selectedText to what if the textStyle of the selectedText is empty then set the textStyle of the selectedText to tStyle else set the textStyle of the selectedText to tOldSTyle&comma&tStyle end if end menuPick From pixelbird at interisland.net Tue Feb 26 05:04:01 2002 From: pixelbird at interisland.net (Ken Norris (dialup)) Date: Tue Feb 26 05:04:01 2002 Subject: Commercial success with Rev In-Reply-To: Message-ID: on 2/25/02 5:45 PM, Richard D. Miller at wow at together.net wrote: > I hope those folks get all the support they need, because Rev could become a > truly revolutionary tool for us all. ---------- Agreed...and much congrats! All the best, Ken N. From gwills at ozemail.com.au Tue Feb 26 05:53:01 2002 From: gwills at ozemail.com.au (Greg Wills) Date: Tue Feb 26 05:53:01 2002 Subject: OS 9.1 In-Reply-To: <200202260115.UAA03904@www.runrev.com> References: <200202260115.UAA03904@www.runrev.com> Message-ID: Greetings all My apology for not paying attention at the time (You know how it is, don't attend unless it is relevant to you. I do remember some discussion ages ago about OS 9.x). I have installed OS 9.1 (to run iMovie2) from OS 9 and Rev is finding life very difficult. For example. The cursor spends a number of seconds flickering between arrow and hand if I go from Browser tool to Pointer tool or everything just stalls for some time. Occasionally when opening object properties one layer (eg script) "tears" away from the rest and won't unstick from the mouse. Or when resizing the script window the bottom right corner won't unstick from the mouse. The best fun to watch is the color pallet. When this is opened (with an object selected) the cursor flickers, then there is a "light show" with random scanning of the colors swatches being highlighted. This goes on for some time. Stimulating to watch, but less than useful. Rev is generally running so slow. Is there a solution to this or will this be fixed in Rev 1.1.1? Or is it an OS 9.1 problem? regards Greg From pixelbird at interisland.net Tue Feb 26 06:15:01 2002 From: pixelbird at interisland.net (Ken Norris (dialup)) Date: Tue Feb 26 06:15:01 2002 Subject: finding topics already discussed In-Reply-To: Message-ID: on 2/25/02 1:43 PM, David Vaughan at drvaughan55 at mac.com wrote: > My own solution is more platform-dependent, in that I simply save any > potentially interesting post on disk and use Sherlock's content search > to find even oblique references. ---------- Sure. I am on, um, six group lists at the moment (4 of them digest versions). I have HC stacks for each, because its 'find' works great, and can be reconfigured five different ways on the fly as well. Maybe I'll change them to RR stacks. I just thought having archives online would give the Rev folks more time to improve and promote their product. Maybe they need a break to come here, though. Just copy the same setup the HC group uses. No need to reinvent the wheel with that. We can fix things in the future, but we can only return knowledge from time already spent. The last character I typed is history. Adios, Ken N. From drvaughan55 at mac.com Tue Feb 26 06:24:01 2002 From: drvaughan55 at mac.com (David Vaughan) Date: Tue Feb 26 06:24:01 2002 Subject: A short comment on speed Message-ID: <0DAF62FD-2AAB-11D6-B5DC-000393598038@mac.com> In early February we had some discussion on speed of Revolution compared with HC. My own experience at the times was that RR was about the same speed, but in colour of course. The activities at the time involved retrieving information on multiple cards. Today I converted another of my HC stacks. It is compute-intensive, taking typically 16 seconds to execute two converging optimisations on data which is on a single card (and is put into variables for the calculation of course). That time was in HC. In RR, the same thing took just one second. I am pretty happy about that. cheers David From pixelbird at interisland.net Tue Feb 26 06:29:01 2002 From: pixelbird at interisland.net (Ken Norris (dialup)) Date: Tue Feb 26 06:29:01 2002 Subject: Ready-made buttons and fields In-Reply-To: Message-ID: on 2/25/02 9:02 PM, Terry Vogelaar at terry at discovery.nl wrote: > I am > working on XML handling at the moment, because I think XML should be the way > all data should be stored. ---------- Why? It's like saying all images should be stored in .gif files. Best regards, Ken N. From matt.denton at limelight.com.au Tue Feb 26 06:53:01 2002 From: matt.denton at limelight.com.au (Matt Denton) Date: Tue Feb 26 06:53:01 2002 Subject: A helping Hand with Graphics speed and masks In-Reply-To: <200202251550.KAA22176@www.runrev.com> Message-ID: Hi there speed fiends, I'm building a cute little app that displays a series off five animated objects, based on a series of timed events, animating usually only one object at a time. I'm having a lot of trouble getting the 'speed' up and keeping it consistent. I know some clever cookies on this list have worked out or found ways to speed up -- sometimes many many multiples of speed increase, such as pencil tool instead of line tool for turtle graphics -- all sorts of graphics and text handling. I'm hoping someone can help... The problem is I have 10 objects, each with masks attached. Originally I fudged the masks, and tried animated GIFs with but that blew out my project size as I had to 'render off' about 200 animations, ie no masks. Surprisingly the animated GIFs didn't seem to perform very well anyway...??? Not sure why. I have small objects but I want to get around 20-25 frames per second, if possible. The GIFs, even just on their own, seemed to run sluggishly... weird. BTW, I'm on a 500Mhz Powerbook G4 so you'd expect the GIFs to be OK. Also I'm running OSX, however I have stepped back to 9.2.2 to see if it was some Quartz/Carbon conversion bottleneck. Eventually I hope to get reasonable animation out of an old 7100 and PII 350 for 'low end performance tests'... haven't even copied the project to these yet! Next I tried using 32bit PNGs and hand animating each object (just moves in this case) but the masks seemed to slow things down to what appeared to be 8-12 fps. So I have 10 objects, with only three ever overlapping, each with masks but they run like molten lava. I guess PNGs are best 'static'. I noted on the list that Mac masking is slow, but not this slow. We are talking smallish objects. I'm trying to work out the FASTEST way to display graphics across both platforms. I'm trying to avoid QuickTime as I truly want to keep away from additional installs... this is only a small tool I'm writing. Next step -- which I don't really want to take -- is wired sprites and masks in QuickTime. I've had great joy in programming the back-end code that maintains the data, sends messages etc. but had a very frustrating time dealing with graphics, or at least 'fast' graphics. Love Revolution for the power under the hood, if I could only know what to do with these graphics!! Some Fast Blast Pixel Blittering Thing would be great... Any tips or comments would be appreciated. There must be some clues somewhere... Many thanks! M@ Matt Denton From Stgecft at aol.com Tue Feb 26 07:15:01 2002 From: Stgecft at aol.com (Stgecft at aol.com) Date: Tue Feb 26 07:15:01 2002 Subject: Ready-made buttons and fields Message-ID: <10c.d863a5e.29acd5ad@aol.com> In a message dated 2/25/02 8:09:30 PM, JacksHyperInfo at aol.com writes: << It would be great if one of you knowledgeable rev people would create a stack of ready made buttons and ready made fields. Some of you remember that hypercard included these in their software. These sure would help beginning programers. They could be posted for download at Runrev. Anybody interested. Jack >> As soon as I get anything of substance I'd be glad to post. I too appreciate what others offer. Randy Kent Stagecraft, Inc. From matt.denton at limelight.com.au Tue Feb 26 07:24:00 2002 From: matt.denton at limelight.com.au (Matt Denton) Date: Tue Feb 26 07:24:00 2002 Subject: A helping Hand with Graphics speed and masks In-Reply-To: <200202251550.KAA22176@www.runrev.com> Message-ID: Hi there speed fiends, I'm building a cute little app that displays a series off five animated objects, based on a series of timed events, animating usually only one object at a time. I'm having a lot of trouble getting the 'speed' up and keeping it consistent. I know some clever cookies on this list have worked out or found ways to speed up -- sometimes many many multiples of speed increase, such as pencil tool instead of line tool for turtle graphics -- all sorts of graphics and text handling. I'm hoping someone can help... The problem is I have 10 objects, each with masks attached. Originally I fudged the masks, and tried animated GIFs with but that blew out my project size as I had to 'render off' about 200 animations, ie no masks. Surprisingly the animated GIFs didn't seem to perform very well anyway...??? Not sure why. I have small objects but I want to get around 20-25 frames per second, if possible. The GIFs, even just on their own, seemed to run sluggishly... weird. BTW, I'm on a 500Mhz Powerbook G4 so you'd expect the GIFs to be OK. Also I'm running OSX, however I have stepped back to 9.2.2 to see if it was some Quartz/Carbon conversion bottleneck. Eventually I hope to get reasonable animation out of an old 7100 and PII 350 for 'low end performance tests'... haven't even copied the project to these yet! Next I tried using 32bit PNGs and hand animating each object (just moves in this case) but the masks seemed to slow things down to what appeared to be 8-12 fps. So I have 10 objects, with only three ever overlapping, each with masks but they run like molten lava. I guess PNGs are best 'static'. I noted on the list that Mac masking is slow, but not this slow. We are talking smallish objects. I'm trying to work out the FASTEST way to display graphics across both platforms. I'm trying to avoid QuickTime as I truly want to keep away from additional installs... this is only a small tool I'm writing. Next step -- which I don't really want to take -- is wired sprites and masks in QuickTime. I've had great joy in programming the back-end code that maintains the data, sends messages etc. but had a very frustrating time dealing with graphics, or at least 'fast' graphics. Love Revolution for the power under the hood, if I could only know what to do with these graphics!! Some Fast Blast Pixel Blittering Thing would be great... Any tips or comments would be appreciated. There must be some clues somewhere... Many thanks! M@ Matt Denton From kmajor at metascape.org Tue Feb 26 07:27:01 2002 From: kmajor at metascape.org (Klaus Major) Date: Tue Feb 26 07:27:01 2002 Subject: Ready-made buttons and fields In-Reply-To: <10c.d863a5e.29acd5ad@aol.com> Message-ID: Hi Randy and all, > > In a message dated 2/25/02 8:09:30 PM, JacksHyperInfo at aol.com writes: > > << It would be great if one of you knowledgeable rev people would > create a > stack > of ready made buttons and ready made fields. Some of you remember that > hypercard included these in their software. These sure would help > beginning > programers. They could be posted for download at Runrev. Anybody > interested. > > Jack >>> > > As soon as I get anything of substance I'd be glad to post. I too > appreciate > what others offer. > > Randy Kent > Stagecraft, Inc. what kind of examples would you like to see ? "Some readymade buttons and fields" is definitively not enough info to fulfill your wishes ;-) I am sure that nicely commented scripts will be appreciated ? :-) Regards Klaus Major kmajor at metascape.org From matt.denton at limelight.com.au Tue Feb 26 07:43:01 2002 From: matt.denton at limelight.com.au (Matt Denton) Date: Tue Feb 26 07:43:01 2002 Subject: A helping Hand with Graphics speed and masks In-Reply-To: <200202260919.EAA10839@www.runrev.com> Message-ID: Hi there speed fiends, I'm building a cute little app that displays a series off five animated objects, based on a series of timed events, animating usually only one object at a time. I'm having a lot of trouble getting the 'speed' up and keeping timing consistent across platforms/machines. I know some clever cookies on this list have worked out or found ways to speed up -- sometimes many many multiples of speed increase, such as pencil tool instead of line tool for turtle graphics -- all sorts of graphics and text handling. I'm hoping someone can help... The problem is I have 10 objects, each with masks attached. Originally I fudged the masks, and tried animated GIFs with but that blew out my project size as I had to 'render off' about 200 animations, ie no masks. Surprisingly the animated GIFs didn't seem to perform very well anyway...??? Not sure why. I have small objects but I want to get around 20-25 frames per second, if possible. The GIFs, even just on their own, seemed to run sluggishly... weird. BTW, I'm on a 500Mhz Powerbook G4 so you'd expect the GIFs to be OK. Also I'm running OSX, however I have stepped back to 9.2.2 to see if it was some Quartz/Carbon conversion bottleneck. Eventually I hope to get reasonable animation out of an old 7100 and PII 350 for 'low end performance tests'... haven't even copied the project to these yet! Next I tried using 32bit PNGs and used the 'move command' to animate each object (just moves in this case) but the masks seemed to slow things down to what appeared to be 6-10 fps. So I have 10 objects, with only three ever overlapping, each with masks but they run like molten lava. I guess PNGs are best 'static'. I noted on the list that Mac masking is slow, but not this slow? We are talking smallish objects. I'm trying to work out the FASTEST way to display graphics across both platforms. I'm trying to avoid QuickTime as I truly want to keep away from potential additional installs... this is only a small tool I'm writing. Next step -- which I don't really want to take -- is wired sprites and masks in QuickTime. I've had great joy in programming the back-end code that maintains the data, sends messages etc. but had a very frustrating time dealing with graphics, or at least 'fast moving' graphics. Love Revolution for the power under the hood, if I could only work out how to get some Fast Blast Pixel Blittering Singing Graphics... Any tips or comments would be appreciated. There must be some clues somewhere... Many thanks! M@ Matt Denton From Stgecft at aol.com Tue Feb 26 07:54:01 2002 From: Stgecft at aol.com (Stgecft at aol.com) Date: Tue Feb 26 07:54:01 2002 Subject: Ready-made buttons and fields Message-ID: <129.d216b98.29acdecd@aol.com> In a message dated 2/26/02 7:25:57 AM, kmajor at metascape.org writes: << I am sure that nicely commented scripts will be appreciated ? :-) >> You are so right. It is alwas great when someone put the script as an example to the problem or the solution to a problem . I have been copying many of them , and putting them to work in my "Examples" stack with much delight. From mkorica at ica.net Tue Feb 26 09:50:00 2002 From: mkorica at ica.net (Mat Korica) Date: Tue Feb 26 09:50:00 2002 Subject: OOP in Rev Message-ID: So how do the standard object-oriented programming concepts translate into the Rev world? How do I make classes, subclasses, instances, etc. Thanks, Mat --- Make a FREE food donation to hungry people around the world. http://www.thehungersite.com From terry at discovery.nl Tue Feb 26 10:43:01 2002 From: terry at discovery.nl (Terry Vogelaar) Date: Tue Feb 26 10:43:01 2002 Subject: Ready-made buttons and fields In-Reply-To: Message-ID: > "Ken Norris (dialup)" wrote: >> I am >> working on XML handling at the moment, because I think XML should be the way >> all data should be stored. > ---------- > Why? It's like saying all images should be stored in .gif files. > > Best regards, > Ken N. OK, I get the point. Let's say 'most text-based data'. I mean Adobe, Macromedia and Microsoft plan to use XML widely, so why should we smaller developers stay behind? Terry From csilverm at acs.ryerson.ca Tue Feb 26 10:52:01 2002 From: csilverm at acs.ryerson.ca (Charles Silverman) Date: Tue Feb 26 10:52:01 2002 Subject: Mouse polling Message-ID: I don't have the time to give a solid and detailed response to the mousepolling controversy. Suffice it to say that I need to do detailed mousepolling within repeat structures. My work evolves creating alternative input solutions for kids with disabilities. I've been writing software for this population for 12 years. I'm looking at kids who have unusual physical movements. They press a switch with some part of their body. The Mac sees the switch press as a mouse button press. I need to filter a lot. For example, what if the user presses a switch by accident. I look at the duration the switch press, to look at differing lengths of time signaling different activities. Traditionally I did all this in SuperCard, crash-free and intuitively. The allure of Metacard/Revolution has been 1)speed, 2)text field features, 3)many built-in features, 4) clear, ongoing work and excellent communications with user community, 5)frequent upgrades, 6) cross-platform support, etc. I don't want to switch to another language, especially now that I've invested some serious time with MetaCard (and dazzled a number of C++ and Java students in our lab with what Rev can do). But all these gains are worth nothing to me if the key piece, mousepolling, is not available. Here's to hoping that some serious work will happen to fix these features. Thanks, Charles Silverman ________________________ Charles Silverman, M.Ed. Coordinator, Accessible Interactive TV Project Centre for Learning Technologies/ITM Ryerson Polytechnic University Toronto, Ont. CANADA From csilverm at acs.ryerson.ca Tue Feb 26 13:04:01 2002 From: csilverm at acs.ryerson.ca (Charles Silverman) Date: Tue Feb 26 13:04:01 2002 Subject: Mouse-poll stress In-Reply-To: <200202261708.MAA19516@www.runrev.com> Message-ID: I wanted to apologize for being too strident on my previous post. I've been pretty stressed about the mousepolling not working for me. Regards, Charles Silverman From Prodevm at aol.com Tue Feb 26 13:05:01 2002 From: Prodevm at aol.com (Prodevm at aol.com) Date: Tue Feb 26 13:05:01 2002 Subject: Little generic arrows (id 201317) Message-ID: On 24/2/02 9:59 pm, "Prodevm at aol.com" scribed: > Hello, > > I am trying to associate the Little generic arrows (image ID 201317) with a > field, to display a range in the set numbers (1-30) when clicked up or > down. I have set the cTargetField to the field name, and I have set > MInValue and MaxValue for the arrows button. However, when I click the > arrows up or down the number displayed in the field does not change. Do I > need to put something in for the script of either the button or the field? > > Thanks > > Steve > In a message dated 2/24/02 9:19:07 PM Eastern Standard Time, iansummerfield at btconnect.com writes: Nothing is needed in the scripts. You should put the name of the target field in cTargetField, don?t put it in quotes or anything like that. Your destination field should have two custom properties, one called cMinValue and the other called cMaxValue. I notice you say you set the arrow buttons? No, that?s not where to put the cMinValue and cMaxValue, you put them on the field. -i- When I set the little arrows up exactly as stated above without any script, it does nothing when clicked up/down. However, if I insert the little arrows button directly from the object library, it automatically inserts a ton of script into the script properties, it works, but there has to be a better way to do this; I cannot imagine having to have all of that script inserted into every little arrows button that you may use. I think that it probaly should be referencing the associated script directly from the object library, automatically on mouse down, but it is not doing so. Without the script being placed directly into the little arrows button properties, it does not work. Please someone help! this is driving me crazy. Thanks Steve -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From kirtley at cua.edu Tue Feb 26 13:27:01 2002 From: kirtley at cua.edu (Dr. Chris Kirtley) Date: Tue Feb 26 13:27:01 2002 Subject: Scroll bar crash Message-ID: <3C7BD2BD.9EBEB28E@cua.edu> Dear all, I've just started with Revolution, although I used to be a big Supercard scripter. I have a couple of scroll bars that are causing my application to crash. They work fine for a few scrools then crash - it seems to be when I dwell too long on the drag operation. I do have a lot of code with some mean number crunching (and graph plotting) in the 'on scrollBarDrag' handler. Do you think that would do it? If so, is there any trick to get around it. I guess if I could somehow damp it down so that it doesn't execute the code too often it might work. But I guess this is also a bug report, since it shouldn't crash Revolution, should it? TIA, and hello to everyone on the list! Chris -- Dr. Chris Kirtley MD PhD Associate Professor HomeCare Technologies for the 21st Century (Whitaker Foundation) NIDRR Rehabilitation Engineering Research Center on TeleRehabilitation Dept. of Biomedical Engineering, Pangborn 105B Catholic University of America 620 Michigan Ave NE Washington, DC 20064 Tel. 202-319-5440, fax 202-319-4287 Email: kirtley at cua.edu http://engineering.cua.edu/biomedical Clinical Gait Analysis: http://guardian.curtin.edu.au/cga Send subscribe/unsubscribe to listproc at info.curtin.edu.au From raney at metacard.com Tue Feb 26 13:30:00 2002 From: raney at metacard.com (Scott Raney) Date: Tue Feb 26 13:30:00 2002 Subject: Mouse polling In-Reply-To: <200202261708.MAA19567@www.runrev.com> Message-ID: On Tue, 26 Feb 2002 Charles Silverman wrote: > I don't have the time to give a solid and detailed response to the > mousepolling controversy. Suffice it to say that I need to do detailed > mousepolling within repeat structures. Unfortunately I think we can't let you off that easy, because unlike most of us, you actually seem to know what you want ;-) At the very least, you have to answer the question: is asynchronous (real time) polling of the mouse buttons with the mouse function adequate, or is it important to preserve the event-based implementation of HyperCard (and I thought SuperCard, though I haven't actually tested that)? In your case, I think the distinction would be "is it acceptable for "the mouse" to return "up" even if the mouse had been pressed down and up between sequential calls to the mouse function? A related issue is with the "wait" command. With the current synchronous mouse function "wait until the mouse is down" will always return when the user clicks. With an async function it's possible that you will miss a quick click because there may be a delay between when the wait function is able to make sequential checks. If the mouse goes down and then back up in that interval, you'll miss it. Regards, Scott > Thanks, > > Charles Silverman > > > ________________________ > Charles Silverman, M.Ed. > Coordinator, Accessible Interactive TV Project > Centre for Learning Technologies/ITM > Ryerson Polytechnic University > Toronto, Ont. CANADA ******************************************************** Scott Raney raney at metacard.com http://www.metacard.com MetaCard: You know, there's an easier way to do that... From bvlahos at jpl.nasa.gov Tue Feb 26 13:55:01 2002 From: bvlahos at jpl.nasa.gov (Bill Vlahos) Date: Tue Feb 26 13:55:01 2002 Subject: Selected Text Message-ID: <06943774-2AEA-11D6-B87D-003065E6E4BC@jpl.nasa.gov> I would like to move selections from one field to another. What I have written is to simply show both list fields and clicking a line in one field adds the information to the other with the following script: on mouseUp put return & the selectedText after field "groups" end mouseUp It works but then leaves the selectedText hilited. If I selected another line then all of the selectedText lines copy again so there are duplicates. How can I deselect the selecttedText? I would like to change the cursor to show what it will do. For example, one field will add the item to the target field but clicking the line in the target field will delete the line. The built in cursors are not obvious enough. Is it possible to make different cursors? If so, how? An alternative to this would be to have the items in the field checked but I can't figure out how to add a ckeckbox to a field. I would also like to add other controls to each line of a field but I can't figure that out either. Is there an example of this somewhere? Bill From steve at messimercomputing.com Tue Feb 26 14:11:01 2002 From: steve at messimercomputing.com (Steve Messimer) Date: Tue Feb 26 14:11:01 2002 Subject: ready made buttons etc In-Reply-To: <200202260115.UAA03762@www.runrev.com> Message-ID: on 2/25/02 8:15 PM, use-revolution-request at lists.runrev.com at use-revolution-request at lists.runrev.com wrote: > It would be great if one of you knowledgeable rev people would create a stack > of ready made buttons and ready made fields. Some of you remember that > hypercard included these in their software. These sure would help beginning > programers. They could be posted for download at Runrev. Anybody > interested. > > Jack Jack, How about starting the beast ourselves? What I have in mind is an open source "how to do it" stack that folks could add sample buttons fields scripts and functions to. This is easy to say. We will have to do a lot of thinking about the scope of this before we begin. I think that this may turn out to be quite useful for all of us. I would certainly be willing to participate in such an endeavor. Anybody else on the list interested? If anyone has any ideas about how this could be organized please feel free to chime in. Steve Messimer Computing, Inc. From steve at messimercomputing.com Tue Feb 26 14:15:01 2002 From: steve at messimercomputing.com (Steve Messimer) Date: Tue Feb 26 14:15:01 2002 Subject: searching lists In-Reply-To: <200202260115.UAA03762@www.runrev.com> Message-ID: on 2/25/02 8:15 PM, use-revolution-request at lists.runrev.com at use-revolution-request at lists.runrev.com wrote: > If you are not on a Mac you can mix the methods by saving relevant files > to disk (faster than copy-paste) and using your newly-minted database > Rev stack to auto-read and delete all files in that directory at > intervals, saving you a bit of effort creating the database. David, I too am developing on a Mac. I hadn't thought of using sherlock... duh. I'm sure that will work fine until I have the time to build something. Thanks for the suggestion. Steve Messimer Computing, Inc. From scott at tactilemedia.com Tue Feb 26 14:26:01 2002 From: scott at tactilemedia.com (Scott Rossi) Date: Tue Feb 26 14:26:01 2002 Subject: A helping Hand with Graphics speed and masks In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <5CFB795E-2AEE-11D6-822A-0003934902A2@tactilemedia.com> On Tuesday, February 26, 2002, at 03:49 AM, Matt Denton wrote: > I'm building a cute little app that displays a series off five animated > objects, based on a series of timed events, animating usually only one > object at a time. I'm having a lot of trouble getting the 'speed' up > and keeping it consistent. I know some clever cookies on this list > have worked out or found ways to speed up -- sometimes many many > multiples of speed increase, such as pencil tool instead of line tool > for turtle graphics -- all sorts of graphics and text handling. I'm > hoping someone can help... > The problem is I have 10 objects, each with masks attached. Originally > I fudged the masks, and tried animated GIFs with but that blew out my > project size as I had to 'render off' about 200 animations, ie no > masks. Surprisingly the animated GIFs didn't seem to perform very well > anyway...??? FWIW, animated GIFs *should* work fine. I've built a lot of things you shouldn't do with animated GIFs in MC and have had good results. One stack in particular ran between 30 and 40 animated GIFs simultaneously, randomly changing frames and positions, and this worked flawlessly on Mac systems (but choked on Win98), so I'm not sure why you are experiencing problems as you describe. Your laptop *may* have an old video driver (if there is one) or high power optimization settings. Keep in mind you don't have to rely on the built in frame timing of the GIF -- you can use MC/REV to display any frame of the GIF at any time. I often purposely set frame timing to 1 fps when building GIFs for use in MC/REV so I can see the results on screen when controlled via script. Write your own scripts to manage GIF playback, and take note of the following functions: - frameCount - repeatCount - currentFrame And now that we can control the blendLevel of images, you can play animated GIFs translucently, while moving them across the screen and controlling their frame rate as desired. This is a somewhat underestimated feature of MC/REV for creating animation that in some cases rivals video. As far as PNGs go, my experience has been that manual image swapping (via setting the icon of a button) can achieve almost the same speed/performance as animated GIF, even with 8 bit masks, as long as the images do not overlap. As soon as the objects touch, the playback speed drops to about 1/2 of normal speed or less. Kudos must go to the MC/REV teams for providing all this control over images. Now we just need to get some antialiased text and draw objects in there... :-) Regards, Scott Rossi Creative Director, Tactile Media scott at tactilemedia.com http://www.tactilemedia.com From jacque at hyperactivesw.com Tue Feb 26 14:50:01 2002 From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (Jacqueline Landman Gay) Date: Tue Feb 26 14:50:01 2002 Subject: reordering lists In-Reply-To: <200202260918.EAA10733@www.runrev.com> Message-ID: On Tuesday, February 26, 2002, at 03:18 AM, Ken Ray wrote: >> It seems that a revolution listfield (with "autohilite" "listbehaviour" >> + >> "click to toggle" checkboxes all true) wants to scroll the hilited line >> to >> the vertical centre of the field, at all times, and of course that's > really >> undesirable here, I want it to stay where it was when I clicked it, >> unless >> I'm actually dragging and the field needs to scroll to bring other lines >> into view, which is what I'm used to in HC, windowscript, and in fact all >> other mac apps that let you 'peel off' a line from a scrolling field. >> >> Sigh... if I anybody knows a way to subvert this "feature"... > > I'm glad you brought this up. I ran into the same behavior in attempting > to > create a table object. I would sincerely recommend that Rev/MC change this > "feature" so that it only scrolls if the hilite is at the bottom or top of > the field. The behavior is in the engine, and Scott Raney and I have had a couple of conversations about it. I don't know of any other application on any platform that pops a selected line to the middle the way MC/Rev does. It is hugely disorienting to the user. The way the Control Browser in MC bounces around has always made me crazy, and I talked Scott into changing the script in the 2.4.2 browser to block the behavior -- but it still remains in the engine and we have to work around it in our scripts. I think the engine should eliminate the behavior entirely. Scott's argument is that it is necessary in order for the Control Browser to display the right line when a user clicks on an object in the stack window, but I think that behavior could be easily controlled by a script rather than by the engine. The disadvantages of auto-centering a selected line in almost all user applications far outweigh the small advantages that occur within the development environment. -- Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com From yvescoppe at skynet.be Tue Feb 26 14:56:01 2002 From: yvescoppe at skynet.be (yves COPPE) Date: Tue Feb 26 14:56:01 2002 Subject: Selected Text In-Reply-To: <06943774-2AEA-11D6-B87D-003065E6E4BC@jpl.nasa.gov> References: <06943774-2AEA-11D6-B87D-003065E6E4BC@jpl.nasa.gov> Message-ID: >I would like to move selections from one field to another. What I >have written is to simply show both list fields and clicking a line >in one field adds the information to the other with the following >script: > >on mouseUp > put return & the selectedText after field "groups" >end mouseUp > >It works but then leaves the selectedText hilited. If I selected >another line then all of the selectedText lines copy again so there >are duplicates. How can I deselect the selecttedText? Set the hilitedlines of me to "0" -- Greetings. Yves COPPE Email : yvescoppe at skynet.be From k_major at osnabrueck.netsurf.de Tue Feb 26 14:58:01 2002 From: k_major at osnabrueck.netsurf.de (Klaus Major) Date: Tue Feb 26 14:58:01 2002 Subject: Selected Text In-Reply-To: <06943774-2AEA-11D6-B87D-003065E6E4BC@jpl.nasa.gov> Message-ID: <0828C040-2AF3-11D6-AB9D-000A27B49A96@osnabrueck.netsurf.de> HI bill, try this: > I would like to move selections from one field to another. What I have > written is to simply show both list fields and clicking a line in one > field adds the information to the other with the following script: > > on mouseUp > put return & the selectedText after field "groups" set the hilitedlines of me to 0 ## add this line > end mouseUp > > It works but then leaves the selectedText hilited. If I selected > another line then all of the selectedText lines copy again so there are > duplicates. How can I deselect the selecttedText?field but I can't > figure that out either. Is there an example of this somewhere? > .... > Bill Au revoir Klaus Major k_major at osnabrueck.netsurf.de From kirtley at cua.edu Tue Feb 26 15:14:00 2002 From: kirtley at cua.edu (Dr. Chris Kirtley) Date: Tue Feb 26 15:14:00 2002 Subject: Trouble with sliders part 2 Message-ID: <3C7BEBD9.AB27D21D@cua.edu> Dear all, Just a follow-up to my preveiou message about sliders. I have now made a standalone of my project: http://engineering.cua.edu/biomedical/labs/gait/Insole/SmartSole.exe - fiddle with the sliders and watch the graphs change. I was surprised to find that it works BETTER than the source code! It doesn't crash, although eventually fails to regraph (I'm using Ken Simons/Tuviah Snyder's graph & table object from the website), the sliders continue to work. Can anyone tell me why the standalone should behave better than the source, and suggest what is happening when it fails? There is a lot of data in there and a lot of number-crunching, so I can imagine that it must be a memory allocation problem. Chris -- Dr. Chris Kirtley MD PhD Associate Professor HomeCare Technologies for the 21st Century (Whitaker Foundation) NIDRR Rehabilitation Engineering Research Center on TeleRehabilitation Dept. of Biomedical Engineering, Pangborn 105B Catholic University of America 620 Michigan Ave NE Washington, DC 20064 Tel. 202-319-5440, fax 202-319-4287 Email: kirtley at cua.edu http://engineering.cua.edu/biomedical Clinical Gait Analysis: http://guardian.curtin.edu.au/cga Send subscribe/unsubscribe to listproc at info.curtin.edu.au From eijkhout at cs.utk.edu Tue Feb 26 15:16:01 2002 From: eijkhout at cs.utk.edu (Victor Eijkhout) Date: Tue Feb 26 15:16:01 2002 Subject: Is there a message watcher? In-Reply-To: <200202260115.UAA03704@www.runrev.com> References: <200202260115.UAA03704@www.runrev.com> Message-ID: >From: Devin Asay >Subject: Is there a Message Watcher >To: use-revolution at lists.runrev.com >Reply-To: use-revolution at lists.runrev.com > >One of my favorite HC development tools is the Message Watcher. I've >looked for this but haven't found anything equivalent in Rev. Am I >just overlooking something? That, and how do I get a traceback of handles if an error occurs. I can open the script. Great. But how did I get there? Is debugging with breakpoints possible? (Man, I love gdb...) -- Victor Eijkhout tel: 865 974 9308 (W), 865 673 6998 (H), 865 974 8296 (F) http://www.cs.utk.edu/~eijkhout/ From raney at metacard.com Tue Feb 26 15:55:01 2002 From: raney at metacard.com (Scott Raney) Date: Tue Feb 26 15:55:01 2002 Subject: reordering lists In-Reply-To: <200202262017.PAA26808@www.runrev.com> Message-ID: On Tue, 26 Feb 2002 Jacqueline Landman Gay wrote: > On Tuesday, February 26, 2002, at 03:18 AM, Ken Ray wrote: > > >> It seems that a revolution listfield (with "autohilite" "listbehaviour" > >> + > >> "click to toggle" checkboxes all true) wants to scroll the hilited line > >> to > >> the vertical centre of the field, at all times, and of course that's > > really > >> undesirable here, I want it to stay where it was when I clicked it, > >> unless > >> I'm actually dragging and the field needs to scroll to bring other lines > >> into view, which is what I'm used to in HC, windowscript, and in fact all > >> other mac apps that let you 'peel off' a line from a scrolling field. > >> > >> Sigh... if I anybody knows a way to subvert this "feature"... > > > > I'm glad you brought this up. I ran into the same behavior in attempting > > to > > create a table object. I would sincerely recommend that Rev/MC change this > > "feature" so that it only scrolls if the hilite is at the bottom or top of > > the field. > > The behavior is in the engine, and Scott Raney and I have had a couple of > conversations about it. I don't know of any other application on any > platform that pops a selected line to the middle the way MC/Rev does. It > is hugely disorienting to the user. The way the Control Browser in MC > bounces around has always made me crazy, and I talked Scott into changing > the script in the 2.4.2 browser to block the behavior -- but it still > remains in the engine and we have to work around it in our scripts. I must be missing something: the engine *never* centers a selection, and the only time it changes the scroll at all is if you select a line with a script that would not otherwise be visible in the field. Now someone might make an argument that having the default be to allow an invisible selection is a feature, but I'd say they have their work cut out for them... Regards, Scott > -- > Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com > HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com ******************************************************** Scott Raney raney at metacard.com http://www.metacard.com MetaCard: You know, there's an easier way to do that... From jperryl at ecs.fullerton.edu Tue Feb 26 16:04:01 2002 From: jperryl at ecs.fullerton.edu (Judy Perry) Date: Tue Feb 26 16:04:01 2002 Subject: Ready-made buttons and fields In-Reply-To: Message-ID: I may be asking a really stupid question here, but with rev's touted HC-compatibility, shouldn't it be a piece of cake to 'import' the HC stacks into rev examples? Judy PS: sorry about the wierd line-wraps -- looks crappy under my telnet app too. > > In a message dated 2/25/02 8:09:30 PM, JacksHyperInfo at aol.com writes: > > > > << It would be great if one of you knowledgeable rev people would > > create a > > stack > > of ready made buttons and ready made fields. Some of you remember that > > hypercard included these in their software. These sure would help > > beginning > > programers. They could be posted for download at Runrev. Anybody > > interested. From jperryl at ecs.fullerton.edu Tue Feb 26 16:18:00 2002 From: jperryl at ecs.fullerton.edu (Judy Perry) Date: Tue Feb 26 16:18:00 2002 Subject: ready made buttons etc In-Reply-To: Message-ID: While what I know would fit on the proverbial head of a pin, I too would be interested, particularly in developing examples and/or templates for k-12 instructional uses. Judy On Tue, 26 Feb 2002, Steve Messimer wrote: > on 2/25/02 8:15 PM, use-revolution-request at lists.runrev.com at > How about starting the beast ourselves? What I have in mind is an open > source "how to do it" stack that folks could add sample buttons fields > scripts and functions to. This is easy to say. We will have to do a lot of > thinking about the scope of this before we begin. I think that this may turn > out to be quite useful for all of us. > > I would certainly be willing to participate in such an endeavor. > > Anybody else on the list interested? If anyone has any ideas about how this > could be organized please feel free to chime in. > From bvlahos at jpl.nasa.gov Tue Feb 26 16:20:01 2002 From: bvlahos at jpl.nasa.gov (Bill Vlahos) Date: Tue Feb 26 16:20:01 2002 Subject: Selected Text In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <3E8D34FE-2AFE-11D6-B87D-003065E6E4BC@jpl.nasa.gov> Yves and Klaus, Thanks for the solution. It works great. Bill On Tuesday, February 26, 2002, at 11:51 AM, yves COPPE wrote: >> I would like to move selections from one field to another. What I have >> written is to simply show both list fields and clicking a line in one >> field adds the information to the other with the following script: >> >> on mouseUp >> put return & the selectedText after field "groups" >> end mouseUp >> >> It works but then leaves the selectedText hilited. If I selected >> another line then all of the selectedText lines copy again so there >> are duplicates. How can I deselect the selecttedText? > > Set the hilitedlines of me to "0" > > > -- Greetings. > > Yves COPPE > > Email : yvescoppe at skynet.be > _______________________________________________ > use-revolution mailing list > use-revolution at lists.runrev.com > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution From iansummerfield at btconnect.com Tue Feb 26 16:36:01 2002 From: iansummerfield at btconnect.com (Ian Summerfield) Date: Tue Feb 26 16:36:01 2002 Subject: Little generic arrows (id 201317) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On 26/2/02 6:02 pm, "Prodevm at aol.com" scribed: > > > When I set the little arrows up exactly as stated above without any script, it > does nothing when clicked up/down. However, if I insert the little arrows > button directly from the object library, it automatically inserts a ton of > script into the script properties, it works, but there has to be a better way > to do this; I cannot imagine having to have all of that script inserted into > every little arrows button that you may use. > > I think that it probaly should be referencing the associated script directly > from the object library, automatically on mouse down, but it is not doing so. > Without the script being placed directly into the little arrows button > properties, it does not work. > > Please someone help! this is driving me crazy. > > Thanks > > Steve > > I turned off the HTML formatting on your message, apparently it plays hell with digest mode readers! Yes, the script is held behind each little arrow, I wouldn't call it a ton of script, but it's more than 10 lines if that's what you mean! Yes, it's inefficient too if you're using lots of little arrows. No, it should not be referencing the object library directly. When you say "Without the script being placed directly into the little arrows button properties, it does not work.", where have you moved the script to? It's got to go somewhere in the message hierarchy. If you wanted to move it to the card or stack script then you'll need to change the references to "me" to the target, and keep a global variable to say that it's a "little arrows" button that was clicked so that the mousemove and other handles know not to apply the actions to other objects, it's not difficult but would require quite some modification. I'd say don't worry about the script repetition unless your using hundreds of little arrow scripts! Look at it this way, it may be inefficient coding but at least Revolution finds the code it needs quickly, which must make it run faster than passing messages up the hierarchy! -i- From mail at richard-hillen.de Tue Feb 26 16:36:19 2002 From: mail at richard-hillen.de (Richard Hillen) Date: Tue Feb 26 16:36:19 2002 Subject: Plain text posts please Message-ID: <3C7BFE8B.6A493E63@richard-hillen.de> Hello Ken wrote: > PLEASE, PLEASE, PLEASE: ARCHIVE THIS LIST. If you were using it to learn, > like many of us, you'd see the value of that immediately. Do you think of somewhat like http://lists.runrev.com/pipermail/use-revolution/? Richard. From iansummerfield at btconnect.com Tue Feb 26 16:42:01 2002 From: iansummerfield at btconnect.com (Ian Summerfield) Date: Tue Feb 26 16:42:01 2002 Subject: OS 9.1 In-Reply-To: Message-ID: > Occasionally when opening object properties one layer (eg > script) "tears" away from the rest and won't unstick from the mouse. > Or when resizing the script window the bottom right corner won't > unstick from the mouse. I get this too. I moved from OS 9.2.1 to OS X instead, it happens less often but still happens. Personally my theory is that the Revolution guys have been using "the mouse" within repeat loops! Under OS X it's often cleared by switching out of Revolution and back in again. Under OS 9 I used to do that with command-tab. -i- From drvaughan55 at mac.com Tue Feb 26 16:54:01 2002 From: drvaughan55 at mac.com (David Vaughan) Date: Tue Feb 26 16:54:01 2002 Subject: Mouse polling In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Charles On Wednesday, February 27, 2002, at 02:49 , you wrote: > I don't have the time to give a solid and detailed response to the > mousepolling controversy. Suffice it to say that I need to do detailed > mousepolling within repeat structures. snip On 13 February you wrote: Hi, This bit of code doesn't work right (though in Supercard it's fine) I've seen recommendations for using "send" but don't I open up to other inadvertent/undesirable user events or processes happening. I need to keep the user focused within a specific loop. Am I missing something? Here's the kind of code I'm talking about. In this example the script goes into a btn and there's a single fld . Warning... This code has crashed Rev and frozen my computer (Mac Pismo PB). The larger purpose of this code is for the creation of single switch software for kids who can't manipulate a keyboard but can press and release switches. I've been doing this stuff for years in SuperCard. I need to carefully scrutinize switch (mouse btn in this case) activity to accommodate for a variety of behaviors. The code strategy below is what I traditionally use for hiliting a series of objects (btns, flds, text within field, etc.) one at a time, for a duration of time, and as well, using the amount of time involved in mouse downs and ups to create multiple signal possibilities. Any thoughts on this appreciated. Both I and Rob Cozens (I think. I didn't keep the mail) replied seeking clarification of your requirement. I wrote (and Rob to similar effect): Is it your intention that - one click on the mouse does nothing (from the user view) - two clicks within fifteen seconds generates a reward message, which disappears on mouseUp - no other events are accepted after the first mouseClick until timeout or a second click on the same button Since you did not respond to either message, I presume you solved your problem, but you are still seeking synchronous mouse functions without various other helpful people having had the opportunity to see if it might work differently :-) What you MUST have is a solution to your interface requirement. Let us then find out if that solution entails particular programming features, rather than working the other way around. If it does, your argument to retain those features has more force, and Scott will have a clearer idea on an adequate implementation. regards David -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text/enriched Size: 2546 bytes Desc: not available URL: From ambassador at FourthWorld.com Tue Feb 26 18:35:01 2002 From: ambassador at FourthWorld.com (Richard Gaskin) Date: Tue Feb 26 18:35:01 2002 Subject: OOP in Rev In-Reply-To: <200202261708.MAA19567@www.runrev.com> Message-ID: Mat Korica asks: > So how do the standard object-oriented programming concepts translate into > the Rev world? How do I make classes, subclasses, instances, etc. Traditional OOP per se is not easily done in an xTalk. There are common elements between xTalk and OOP systems, but each model has unique strengths and weaknesses which offer different ranges of benefits for the job at hand. I have hobbyist interest in automata and simulations, where OOP is particularly useful. I crafted a couple of tests for a framework that will give me enough OOP-like behavior to get the job done and still keep the code simple. It's nothing fancy, little more than a slightly slower verion of the parentScript feature I keep requesting, but might be useful: I have a stack named "Classes" that contains a bunch of buttons. The scripts of all buttons in the Classes stack are inserted as backcripts on startup. The script of each Class button has handlers that take this form: . e.g., cFieldClass.mouseUp cDataEntryClass.closeField The system has a frontscript that traps most system messages, and checks the target for a custom property named "Class". We can call this the Dispatcher. If the target has a Class property the Dispatcher simply prepends it to the name of the message and sends that to the target. For example, suppose you click on a button. The Dispatcher gets the message first with this trap: on mouseUp doClass the params pass mouseUp end mouseUp The doClass handler is also in that frontscript: on doClass get the Class of the target if it is not empty then if there is not a btn it of stack "classes" then exit doClass put the params into tParams delete word 1 of tParams delete char 1 of tParams delete last char of tParams put cr&"on "&it&"."&word 1 of tParams into tCheckStr if tCheckStr is in the script of btn it of stack "classes" then send it&"."&tParams to the target end if end if end doClass The resulting "cFileSelector.mouseUp" message is sent to the target, and since the target doesn't handle it directly it passes through to the class definition for cFileSelector, which is the backscript for the button of that name from the Classes window: on cFileSelector.mouseUp answer file "Select a file:" if it is empty then exit to top set the uFile of the target to it end cFileSelector.mouseUp While this message heirarchy scheme is only one-deep, it's relatively fast and allows you an easy way to handle messages for a great many objects without ever putting any scripts in any of them. You just set one property, and their behaviors change. To measure performance, I modified the Dispatcher's doClass handler to measure speed: on doClass put the milliseconds into t repeat 1000 get the class of the target if it is not empty then if there is not a btn it of stack "classes" then exit doClass put the params into tParams delete word 1 of tParams delete char 1 of tParams delete last char of tParams put cr&"on "&it&"."&word 1 of tParams into tCheckStr if tCheckStr is in the script of btn it of stack "classes" then send it&"."&tParams to the target end if end if end repeat put (the milliseconds - t) /1000 && the params end doClass On my G4/500, and using only stub handlers in the button class so as not to muddy the waters, it seems the Dispatcher takes about 1/10 of a millisecond to execute (0.096 ms avg). Noticeable difference, esp. since most messages are simply passed without processing, as only those messages handled by the target's class ever get dispatched. -- Richard Gaskin Fourth World Media Corporation Custom Software and Web Development for All Major Platforms Developer of WebMerge 1.9: Publish any Database on Any Site ___________________________________________________________ Ambassador at FourthWorld.com http://www.FourthWorld.com Tel: 323-225-3717 AIM: FourthWorldInc From pixelbird at interisland.net Tue Feb 26 19:28:01 2002 From: pixelbird at interisland.net (Ken Norris (dialup)) Date: Tue Feb 26 19:28:01 2002 Subject: A helping Hand with Graphics speed and masks In-Reply-To: Message-ID: on 2/26/02 4:38 AM, Matt Denton at matt.denton at limelight.com.au wrote: > Hi there speed fiends, > ---------- Hi Matt, I can't answer your queries because I'm too new to RR to be that far into the inner sanctum, but you should know your post ended up with three copies in succession on the list. Ken N. From staypufd at gte.net Tue Feb 26 19:43:01 2002 From: staypufd at gte.net (Sam Griffith) Date: Tue Feb 26 19:43:01 2002 Subject: Help please? Message-ID: Hello all, I'm trying to find out how to get a text field to redisplay during a handler? Below is the code I want to do. It animates a character getting bigger and smaller 45 times. Any help would be appreciated.... on mouseDown repeat 45 times set the textSize of character 4 of line 1 of field "Txtfield1" to 8 -- want the text field to update before doing this set the textSize of character 4 of line 1 of field "Txtfield1" to 24 end repeat end mousedown -- Sam Griffith Jr. email: staypufd at mac.com Web site: http://homepage.mac.com/staypufd/index.html From kray at sonsothunder.com Tue Feb 26 19:53:01 2002 From: kray at sonsothunder.com (Ken Ray) Date: Tue Feb 26 19:53:01 2002 Subject: reordering lists References: Message-ID: <004101c1bf28$83a6d370$6f0e48a6@mckinley.dom> Scott, > I must be missing something: the engine *never* centers a selection, > and the only time it changes the scroll at all is if you select a line > with a script that would not otherwise be visible in the field. Now > someone might make an argument that having the default be to allow an > invisible selection is a feature, but I'd say they have their work cut > out for them... I'm not going to make a case for being able to select a line that is out of view in the current scrolling list, but I *would* like to make the case that if you select a line via script that the field should scroll only until it is shown in the list and not attempt to center it. For example, if a field displays 4 lines-worth of text and it has 8 lines of text in it, and it is fully scrolled to the top, if you execute "set the hilitedLines of field 1 to 7", the field should scroll three lines up and only display lines 4-7 of the field with line 7 highlighted. Similarly if you then execute "set the hilitedLines of field 1 to 2", the field should scroll so that lines 2-5 of the field are highlighted. I think that it is the unnatural behavior of having the hilite go to the center of the list that is at issue here. Ken Ray Sons of Thunder Software Email: kray at sonsothunder.com Web Site: http://www.sonsothunder.com/ From zelston at aol.com Tue Feb 26 20:02:01 2002 From: zelston at aol.com (Zac Elston) Date: Tue Feb 26 20:02:01 2002 Subject: one button, many cards? In-Reply-To: <200202261708.MAA19567@www.runrev.com> Message-ID: Is there a way to create a button (say a back or forward button that moves between cards of a stack) and have that button show up on all the cards automagically? can I just set some property of the button to enable this? thanks -zac From iansummerfield at btconnect.com Tue Feb 26 20:16:01 2002 From: iansummerfield at btconnect.com (Ian Summerfield) Date: Tue Feb 26 20:16:01 2002 Subject: Help please? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Try this, you'll have to introduce a wait, otherwise on today's fast computers it all happens within a fraction of a second that you don't see it! Unlock screen should redraw the screen. on mouseDown repeat 45 times lock screen set the textSize of character 4 of line 1 of field "Txtfield1" to 8 unlock screen wait 5 ticks lock screen set the textSize of character 4 of line 1 of field "Txtfield1" to 24 unlock screen wait 5 ticks end repeat end mousedown On 27/2/02 12:41 am, "Sam Griffith" scribed: > Hello all, > > I'm trying to find out how to get a text field to redisplay during a > handler? Below is the code I want to do. It animates a character getting > bigger and smaller 45 times. Any help would be appreciated.... > > on mouseDown > repeat 45 times > set the textSize of character 4 of line 1 of field "Txtfield1" to 8 > > -- want the text field to update before doing this > > set the textSize of character 4 of line 1 of field "Txtfield1" to 24 > end repeat > end mousedown > > > -- > Sam Griffith Jr. > email: staypufd at mac.com > Web site: http://homepage.mac.com/staypufd/index.html > > > _______________________________________________ > use-revolution mailing list > use-revolution at lists.runrev.com > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution ---------------------------------- Ian Summerfield Macintosh Consultant - Hastings UK ICQ: 4378866 ---------------------------------- This E-mail is from Ian Summerfield's home system. The contents and any attachments to it include information that is private and confidential and should only be read by those persons to whom they are addressed. Ian accepts no liability for any loss or damage suffered by any person arising from the use of this e-mail. Ian does not accept any responsibility for viruses and it is your responsibility to check the email and attachments (if any). If you have received this e-mail in error, please destroy and delete the message from your computer. From jacque at hyperactivesw.com Tue Feb 26 21:23:01 2002 From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (Jacqueline Landman Gay) Date: Tue Feb 26 21:23:01 2002 Subject: use-revolution digest, Vol 1 #229 - 12 msgs In-Reply-To: <200202270054.TAA00740@www.runrev.com> Message-ID: On Tuesday, February 26, 2002, at 06:54 PM, Scott Raney wrote: > I must be missing something: the engine *never* centers a selection, > and the only time it changes the scroll at all is if you select a line > with a script that would not otherwise be visible in the field. Maybe it's me that missing something instead. But in all versions of MC up until the current beta, clicking on a visible line in the Control Browser would bounce that line to the middle of the field. In Ken's 8-line field example, if lines 1 to 4 were visible and I clicked on line 4, it would scroll to the position that line 2 used to hold -- at least in the Control Browser. Since I could find no scripts in the browser to control the behavior I assumed it was in the engine. Maybe its in a backscript somewhere instead. Note this is for visible lines, not hidden lines, and not when scripting a selection but when clicking on one. No other UI allows that behavior that I know of. -- Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com From jacque at hyperactivesw.com Tue Feb 26 21:29:01 2002 From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (Jacqueline Landman Gay) Date: Tue Feb 26 21:29:01 2002 Subject: reordering lists In-Reply-To: <200202270054.TAA00740@www.runrev.com> Message-ID: <7722D1AC-2B29-11D6-B933-003065D2A46A@hyperactivesw.com> > I must be missing something: the engine *never* centers a selection, > and the only time it changes the scroll at all is if you select a line > with a script that would not otherwise be visible in the field. Hm. I just did a test in MC 2.4.2b1 and it doesn't happen any more. Did something change? -- Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com From pixelbird at interisland.net Tue Feb 26 23:31:01 2002 From: pixelbird at interisland.net (Ken Norris (dialup)) Date: Tue Feb 26 23:31:01 2002 Subject: Ready-made buttons and fields In-Reply-To: Message-ID: on 2/26/02 7:39 AM, Terry Vogelaar at terry at discovery.nl wrote: > OK, I get the point. Let's say 'most text-based data'. I mean Adobe, > Macromedia and Microsoft plan to use XML widely, so why should we smaller > developers stay behind? ---------- I see what you mean, and from that perspective, I think you're right. I guess I just don't buy into XML being a metaphor for the 'Unified Theory' is all. Blessings, Ken N. From pixelbird at interisland.net Tue Feb 26 23:41:01 2002 From: pixelbird at interisland.net (Ken Norris (dialup)) Date: Tue Feb 26 23:41:01 2002 Subject: Plain text posts please In-Reply-To: <3C7BFE8B.6A493E63@richard-hillen.de> Message-ID: on 2/26/02 1:30 PM, Richard Hillen at mail at richard-hillen.de wrote: > Do you think of somewhat like > http://lists.runrev.com/pipermail/use-revolution/? ---------- This goes nowhere. Is it supposed to be an actual website, or just musing what might be? All I get is the eternal beachball. Ken N. From terry at discovery.nl Wed Feb 27 01:00:01 2002 From: terry at discovery.nl (Terry Vogelaar) Date: Wed Feb 27 01:00:01 2002 Subject: Plain text posts please In-Reply-To: Message-ID: >> Do you think of somewhat like >> http://lists.runrev.com/pipermail/use-revolution/? > ---------- > This goes nowhere. Is it supposed to be an actual website, or just musing > what might be? All I get is the eternal beachball. Maybe your e-mail client thinks that the "?" is part of the URL too. So just try http://lists.runrev.com/pipermail/use-revolution/ Terry From sims at ezpzapps.com Wed Feb 27 01:06:01 2002 From: sims at ezpzapps.com (sims) Date: Wed Feb 27 01:06:01 2002 Subject: answer error problem Message-ID: Anyone have any suggestions for me on this? I *really* need to eliminate this problem... sims >Problem: When the answer error pops up, I have to click it twice >in order to dismiss it. > >The cursor appears as a hand prior to first click... >The cursor turns into an iBeam after the first click >and stays an iBeam while over the "OK" button unless >moved - if moved, it becomes a hand and can then click 'OK' > >This is on a Mac if that makes any difference. > From kray at sonsothunder.com Wed Feb 27 02:07:01 2002 From: kray at sonsothunder.com (Ken Ray) Date: Wed Feb 27 02:07:01 2002 Subject: reordering lists References: <7722D1AC-2B29-11D6-B933-003065D2A46A@hyperactivesw.com> Message-ID: <003b01c1bf5c$c221dc60$ce0e48a6@mckinley.dom> I just tested this in 2.4.1 and it still centers - I used my example and "set the hilitedLines of field 1 to 6" and the field scrolled up as far as it would go, showing 5,6,7 and 8 with line 6 hilited. Ken Ray Sons of Thunder Software Email: kray at sonsothunder.com Web Site: http://www.sonsothunder.com/ ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jacqueline Landman Gay" To: Sent: Tuesday, February 26, 2002 8:26 PM Subject: Re: reordering lists > > > I must be missing something: the engine *never* centers a selection, > > and the only time it changes the scroll at all is if you select a line > > with a script that would not otherwise be visible in the field. > > Hm. I just did a test in MC 2.4.2b1 and it doesn't happen any more. Did > something change? > > -- > Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com > HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com > > _______________________________________________ > use-revolution mailing list > use-revolution at lists.runrev.com > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution > From kmajor at metascape.org Wed Feb 27 03:47:01 2002 From: kmajor at metascape.org (Klaus Major) Date: Wed Feb 27 03:47:01 2002 Subject: same post 3 times... In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <45EB1DA9-2B5E-11D6-9C98-003065D52E8E@metascape.org> Hi ken and all, > on 2/26/02 4:38 AM, Matt Denton at matt.denton at limelight.com.au wrote: > >> Hi there speed fiends, >> > ---------- > Hi Matt, > > I can't answer your queries because I'm too new to RR to be that far > into > the inner sanctum, but you should know your post ended up with three > copies > in succession on the list. > > Ken N. i have experienced thsi phenomenon several times before. There are some posts that get delivered 2 or 3 times. Since i do not think the folks who posted them are too dumb to remember that they already hit the "send" button a couple of secs before it might be a list-server problem. Please don't take it personally, Heather :-) Regards Klaus Major kmajor at metascape.org From kmajor at metascape.org Wed Feb 27 03:59:01 2002 From: kmajor at metascape.org (Klaus Major) Date: Wed Feb 27 03:59:01 2002 Subject: one button, many cards? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Hi Zac, > Is there a way to create a button (say a back or forward button that > moves > between cards of a stack) and have that button show up on all the cards > automagically? > > can I just set some property of the button to enable this? you just have to group that (yes, single) button, check the "Background Behaviour" of that new group et voila, you can place that button on every card... When the background beh. is checked, that group will be placed on every new created card automatically. If you created that group after creating 1 zillion cards, no problem, you do not have to place that background manually ;-) As always, let RR/MC do the work for you: on mouseup ## or whenever... get the num of cds repeat with i = 1 to it place bg "your_group_name_her" onto cd i end repeat end mouseup > thanks You're welcome... > -zac Have fun... Regards Klaus Major kmajor at metascape.org From curry at kagi.com Wed Feb 27 04:15:01 2002 From: curry at kagi.com (Curry) Date: Wed Feb 27 04:15:01 2002 Subject: Mouse polling In-Reply-To: <200202270054.TAA00740@www.runrev.com> Message-ID: David Vaughan wrote: > What you MUST have is a solution to your interface requirement. Let us > then find out if that solution entails particular programming > features, rather than working the other way around. If it does, your > argument to retain those features has more force, and Scott will have > a clearer idea on an adequate implementation. Kind of like, why should I retain my hammer, because hey, I can pound nails with the handle of my screwdriver too if I try hard enough? Only if I fail in that should I request that the hammer be preserved? :-) It seems like many people are thinking with the workaround approach--how can I get around the lack of this feature. That's fine for real missing features, and is a common thing to do in xTalk or any other very high level development system, but this mouse() function is a feature that has been around forever and a day, and works very well for these types of behaviors. It is much easier to implement in the situations where it's most often used. It also is more readable in many situations. (There are good situations for using the event handlers too, of course.) If I understand it, the problem with support these polling functions is that the behavior is complex to support as it is, and most people still haven't made clear if it would be acceptable for the behavior to be changed a bit. So I wonder, instead of everyone working together to figure out how to pound nails best with other tools lying around, why not just give the hammer manufacturer your opinion on the details of how the hammer should be designed, so that the dilemma could perhaps be solved? For myself, I'm OK with straight direct polling at the time of the call. The way I use the features, I don't worry about losing a quick click up and down, or vice versa, before the call. (This is also much less a consideration now than with HyperCard, because computers are so much faster.) The great thing about direct polling is that it would be perfect for loops and handlers that check more than once during the script. It would also alleviate the need for some workarounds like using wait..with messages statements which are necessary in some cases now to get the correct value. In addition, a third benefit is that you couldn't get stuck in a loop. I see why HyperCard had the complex buffered behavior, especially with slower computers back then, and why there is a bit of Catch-22 involved. But I think the direct polling would work fine for almost every case nowadays, and I think that Catch-22 is mostly history. For example, let's take one of the most common usages: say you want to do something after a control is pressed and continue until the mouse is released. With "repeat until the mouse is up", the action would continue until the mouse was released, and even if the repeated action could take a visible amount of time, it would still stop if the mouse was up at poll time. So if the user had clicked up and down again quickly while the action was going on, the action would still stop. If the user had let up quickly and then held the mouse down again, it would usually still be the correct behavior. The user would see and understand what was going on even if the second click was outside the control or intended area, and realize that he should let go. Now, that's the worst case scenario, and could be avoided either by extra polling during such lengthy actions, or by ensuring shorter actions. I think it's unlikely on the typical speedy computer of today (or even five or so years ago) that this will be a big consideration. At least I can speak for myself: I would have no problems with it. When designing for older computers, or the other cases where direct polling could cause problems (I suspect these cases would be pretty rare), any number of methods to overcome the problem could be used, such as additional polling. It's hard to come up with the best examples right off hand, but hopefully you see what I'm getting at. Do you see how direct polling, or some sort of simplification of the current behavior, would be very effective for most situations? And how tweaking for the other occasional situation would still be much easier than having a bunch of different handlers that have to share variables and keep each other informed of what they're trying to do, and goodness-knows-what? I admit, some tasks are indeed best done with the separate event handlers, but the objective observer will have to admit that many, many tasks are much more straightforward using the polling functions. And that's why we have hammers to pound nails, although with practice you might be able to drive nails with another tool or with a rock or even your bare hands or your forehead. If I picked up on Scott's messages correctly (I don't want to put words in his mouth but) it seemed like he was willing to consider reworking the functions and keeping them in a more logical and simplified form if people could indicate whether changing the behavior would be acceptable for them, and if so, how should it behave. Dropping these functions would be silly when all we have to do is just agree on an acceptable behavior. I'm not working on alternatives for them in my own projects. I just don't want to script without these functions, period. I can't say I would stop using Revolution without them, because I have a lot tied up in Revolution and I like almost everything about it. Having found the perfect cross-platform scripting environment, I want to keep using it. But short of that, I can say that I would wholeheartedly hate scripting without those polling functions. I would resent having to use other methods in situations where the polling function would have been the most straightforward solution. I would hate the whole business. This shouldn't be a situation that we have to face, because those functions shouldn't be deprecated. Scott and team, please hang onto these functions and alter the behavior so that it is easier for you to support while meeting the needs of those who do express their needs. Consider the people who do depend on the functions and care about them enough to tell you the behavior they want to see, and if some other people wouldn't mind losing the functions altogether, then a small behavior change shouldn't hurt them in a function they don't depend on heavily and wouldn't mind moving away from. As far as I know, all popular general-use languages like the BASICs and LOGOs have these types of polling functions. They part of scripting and part of other languages too. Why on earth should MetaCard and Revolution do without them? They make sense for the situations where they are most often used, they are more readable and much more convenient for many tasks, they really help people who like to use them and they certainly don't hurt anyone that choose not to. As for the considerations of being advanced-OS-friendly, which is a slightly different angle on the issue, I see the point, but it's a matter of what you are making and for whom. It's not relevant for me at this time, but continued existence and support of these polling functions certainly is. So, I can see where the problems came from with supporting the complexities of the old behaviors and still running into complaints on them, but I can't see any reason why a modified, simpler implementation couldn't solve all those problems as long as people indicate what would be acceptable for them. And I can't see dumping these functions because of the conflict--any implementation would be better than none! I think direct polling, or direct polling with a few tweaks, would solve the problem for everyone. Thanks, Curry Kenworthy From iansummerfield at btconnect.com Wed Feb 27 04:20:01 2002 From: iansummerfield at btconnect.com (Ian Summerfield) Date: Wed Feb 27 04:20:01 2002 Subject: one button, many cards? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On 27/2/02 12:59 am, "Zac Elston" scribed: > Is there a way to create a button (say a back or forward button that moves > between cards of a stack) and have that button show up on all the cards > automagically? > > can I just set some property of the button to enable this? > > thanks > > -zac Wouldn't a palette with the buttons on be better? From kmajor at metascape.org Wed Feb 27 04:27:01 2002 From: kmajor at metascape.org (Klaus Major) Date: Wed Feb 27 04:27:01 2002 Subject: one button, many cards? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Hi Ian, > On 27/2/02 12:59 am, "Zac Elston" scribed: > >> Is there a way to create a button (say a back or forward button that >> moves >> between cards of a stack) and have that button show up on all the cards >> automagically? >> >> can I just set some property of the button to enable this? >> >> thanks >> >> -zac > > Wouldn't a palette with the buttons on be better? Maybe, who knows ?! ;-) Regards Klaus Major kmajor at metascape.org From drvaughan55 at mac.com Wed Feb 27 04:42:01 2002 From: drvaughan55 at mac.com (David Vaughan) Date: Wed Feb 27 04:42:01 2002 Subject: Mouse polling In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Wednesday, February 27, 2002, at 02:08 , Curry Kenworthy wrote: > > >> What you MUST have is a solution to your interface requirement. Let us >> then find out if that solution entails particular programming >> features, rather than working the other way around. If it does, your >> argument to retain those features has more force, and Scott will have >> a clearer idea on an adequate implementation. > > Kind of like, why should I retain my hammer, because hey, I can pound > nails > with the handle of my screwdriver too if I try hard enough? Only if I > fail > in that should I request that the hammer be preserved? :-) Curry That is not in any respect what I said or implied. In fact, you go on to render an extensive case for the feasibility of polling, as suggested by Scott, which approach meets that portion of my post which you quoted above. The rest of my post sought information on which to make these analyses. Please do not presume opposition where none was stated .... and only a day after Jeanne asked us to be nice :-) regards David From ambassador at FourthWorld.com Wed Feb 27 04:49:01 2002 From: ambassador at FourthWorld.com (Richard Gaskin) Date: Wed Feb 27 04:49:01 2002 Subject: Mouse polling In-Reply-To: <200202270928.EAA08723@www.runrev.com> Message-ID: Curry writes: > It seems like many people are thinking with the workaround approach--how can > I get around the lack of this feature. That's fine for real missing > features, and is a common thing to do in xTalk or any other very high level > development system, but this mouse() function is a feature that has been > around forever and a day, and works very well for these types of behaviors. > It is much easier to implement in the situations where it's most often used. > It also is more readable in many situations. (There are good situations for > using the event handlers too, of course.) I have a least a layman's understanding of both sides of this, and while I appreciate the technical challenge I also recognize the convenience of polling. In my own work, most of my arguments in favor of polling go away as long as I have a solution to whatever it is I'm working on. Let's try this: Can we come up with a situation in which mouseMove cannot provide what polling the mouse state in a loop provides? -- Richard Gaskin Fourth World Media Corporation Custom Software and Web Development for All Major Platforms Developer of WebMerge 1.9: Publish any Database on Any Site ___________________________________________________________ Ambassador at FourthWorld.com http://www.FourthWorld.com Tel: 323-225-3717 AIM: FourthWorldInc From heather at runrev.com Wed Feb 27 05:15:01 2002 From: heather at runrev.com (Heather Williams) Date: Wed Feb 27 05:15:01 2002 Subject: same post 3 times In-Reply-To: <200202270928.EAA08723@www.runrev.com> Message-ID: > i have experienced thsi phenomenon several times before. > > There are some posts that get delivered 2 or 3 times. > > Since i do not think the folks who posted them are too dumb > to remember that they already hit the "send" button a couple of secs > before it might be a list-server problem. > > Please don't take it personally, Heather :-) Not at all, why would I? This used to happen a lot more with the old list software, but the reason for that no longer exists, and in fact it happens far less frequently these days. I don't think the list software is to blame, though I am always open to be convinced. These things happen from time to time, the wonders of modern technology... Regards, Heather -- Heather Williams Runtime Revolution Ltd. Tel: +44 (0) 131 7184333 Fax: +44 (0)1639 830707 Ten Thumbs Typing Tutor Teach your Fingers to Dance From niklas_almesjo at yahoo.com Wed Feb 27 06:08:01 2002 From: niklas_almesjo at yahoo.com (Niklas Almesjö) Date: Wed Feb 27 06:08:01 2002 Subject: mySQL Message-ID: <20020227110614.49249.qmail@web12305.mail.yahoo.com> I am trying to get a grip on how to work with databases from Rev. Kinda new to databases, but I've gotten mySQL up and running. But I can't connect to it from Rev (using the database-manager). Is there a tutorial for this? Specifically I can't figure out what what to put in the hostfield..? /Niklas __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Greetings - Send FREE e-cards for every occasion! http://greetings.yahoo.com From Stgecft at aol.com Wed Feb 27 06:41:01 2002 From: Stgecft at aol.com (Stgecft at aol.com) Date: Wed Feb 27 06:41:01 2002 Subject: Help please? Message-ID: <135.a14d0bc.29ae1f09@aol.com> In a message dated 2/26/02 7:42:18 PM, staypufd at gte.net writes: << on mouseDown repeat 45 times set the textSize of character 4 of line 1 of field "Txtfield1" to 8 -- want the text field to update before doing this set the textSize of character 4 of line 1 of field "Txtfield1" to 24 end repeat end mousedown >> If you are trying to see the effects of this action put "wait 10" befor and after your last line. wait 10 set the textSize of character 4 of line 1 of field "Txtfield1" to 24 wait 10 Randy Kent Stagecraft, Inc. From kevin at runrev.com Wed Feb 27 07:14:01 2002 From: kevin at runrev.com (Kevin Miller) Date: Wed Feb 27 07:14:01 2002 Subject: Mouse polling In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On 27/2/02 3:08 am, Curry wrote: > Dropping these functions would be silly when all we have to do is just agree > on an acceptable behavior. I'm not working on alternatives for them in my > own projects. I just don't want to script without these functions, period. I > can't say I would stop using Revolution without them, because I have a lot > tied up in Revolution and I like almost everything about it. Having found > the perfect cross-platform scripting environment, I want to keep using it. I'm not entirely clear why there is such concern here: I have not at any stage even suggested that these functions will be dropped. In fact I have said very little on the subject. We are having some debate as to the precise behavior of these functions and may or may not make changes. But there has been no suggestion, at any time, from anyone on the Runtime team, that these functions will be dropped. So can we please end this aspect of the debate now. Kind regards, Kevin Kevin Miller Runtime Revolution Limited - Power to the Developer! Tel: +44 (0) 870 747 1165. Fax: +44 (0)1639 830 707. From Stgecft at aol.com Wed Feb 27 07:50:01 2002 From: Stgecft at aol.com (Stgecft at aol.com) Date: Wed Feb 27 07:50:01 2002 Subject: one button, many cards? Message-ID: <163.97ce83e.29ae2f69@aol.com> Create your buttons....group them,,,and select background behavior for the group. Randy Kent Stagecraft, Inc. From steve at messimercomputing.com Wed Feb 27 09:27:00 2002 From: steve at messimercomputing.com (Steve Messimer) Date: Wed Feb 27 09:27:00 2002 Subject: use-revolution digest, Vol 1 #230 - 14 msgs In-Reply-To: <200202270928.EAA08723@www.runrev.com> Message-ID: on 2/27/02 4:28 AM, use-revolution-request at lists.runrev.com at use-revolution-request at lists.runrev.com wrote: > Is there a way to create a button (say a back or forward button that moves > between cards of a stack) and have that button show up on all the cards > automagically? > > can I just set some property of the button to enable this? > > thanks > > -zac Zac Sounds like you want to make a background button like in HC. Rev is different and much nicer in many ways. Suggestion: you might want to create your whole navigation object set and make all of the objects part of the grp. Make the button(s) a grp In the grp propeties panel go to the grp tab enable the background behavior check box ... done Steve Messimer Computing From kevin at runrev.com Wed Feb 27 09:47:01 2002 From: kevin at runrev.com (Kevin Miller) Date: Wed Feb 27 09:47:01 2002 Subject: finding topics already discussed In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On 25/2/02 7:08 pm, Ken Norris (dialup) wrote: > I rarely use the group website for reading or posting. Too slow, extraneous > ads, etc. Do you mean to say there is no archive access like the HC list > has? No wonder there is so much redundant activity on the list. If you don't > have archive space at Yahoo, then you should save yourselves a lot of grief > and make one immediately. We do have archives. You can browse them online or download them and search them. Online search is something we will do soon. http://lists.runrev.com/pipermail/use-revolution/ Kevin Kevin Miller Runtime Revolution Limited - Power to the Developer! Tel: +44 (0) 870 747 1165. Fax: +44 (0)1639 830 707. From kevin at runrev.com Wed Feb 27 10:10:01 2002 From: kevin at runrev.com (Kevin Miller) Date: Wed Feb 27 10:10:01 2002 Subject: mySQL In-Reply-To: <20020227110614.49249.qmail@web12305.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: On 27/2/02 11:06 am, Almesj? Niklas wrote: > I am trying to get a grip on how to work with databases from Rev. Kinda > new to databases, but I've gotten mySQL up and running. But I can't > connect to it from Rev (using the database-manager). Is there a tutorial > for this? > Specifically I can't figure out what what to put in the hostfield..? Did you check out the Help tab in the database manager? You place the address of the database host in that field, e.g. an IP address. Kevin Kevin Miller Runtime Revolution Limited - Power to the Developer! Tel: +44 (0) 870 747 1165. Fax: +44 (0)1639 830 707. From steve at messimercomputing.com Wed Feb 27 10:16:01 2002 From: steve at messimercomputing.com (Steve Messimer) Date: Wed Feb 27 10:16:01 2002 Subject: template Message-ID: Judy, you said... >While what I know would fit on the proverbial head of a pin, I too would >be interested, particularly in developing examples and/or templates for >k-12 instructional uses. Hey whatever you know will no doubt be useful to someone. What I had in mind was setting up a Demo stack that others could use to learn from and borrow scripts freely. To do this we need to do a couple things. 1. Develop a simple stack to hold the information. Sections: Buttons: Fields: Groups: Cards: Widgets: Stacks: Screen: Animation: Others? 2. Determine the standard design for the stacks content cards. Title bar: with title fld,
Explanation fld: contains comments on the example including why you might want to use it. Object(s) needed to implement the solution. ideally users could simply copy and paste the examples into their stacks. 3. We might want to add some sort of simple database finctionality 4. Develop a method for updating the stack as submissions come in. We want to have a simple way for people to contribute. If possible we would like to promote good programming practices but not at the expense of excluding people who are new to RR. 5. See if RunRev would be interested in providing a home for it on their web site. ******** As far as the K-12 templates are concerned I am working on porting a set of ed development tools from HC to Rev. I developed these under the name Preceptor back in 1994. They will be implemented as a Rev plug-in. This is going to be a commercial product. While it is in development at the moment I can only devote part time to it. ( Got to eat! ) It will most likely be several months before it is ready for testing. If you would like to participate as a tester at some point let me know. Steve Messimer Computing, Inc. From kray at sonsothunder.com Wed Feb 27 10:31:01 2002 From: kray at sonsothunder.com (Ken Ray) Date: Wed Feb 27 10:31:01 2002 Subject: answer error problem References: Message-ID: <003301c1bfa3$2bd7ec30$7c00a8c0@mckinley.dom> I'd love to help, but I have a few questions: 1) When you say the "answer error", which do you mean - the answer dialog box, or the error dialog box? 2) When you say you have to "click it twice", where are you clicking it? 3) If it is the error dialog box, can you post the code that is bringing up the error? 4) On a Mac running what OS? Thanks, Ken Ray Sons of Thunder Software Email: kray at sonsothunder.com Web Site: http://www.sonsothunder.com/ ----- Original Message ----- From: "sims" To: Sent: Wednesday, February 27, 2002 6:08 AM Subject: RE: answer error problem > Anyone have any suggestions for me on this? > I *really* need to eliminate this problem... > > sims > > >Problem: When the answer error pops up, I have to click it twice > >in order to dismiss it. > > > >The cursor appears as a hand prior to first click... > >The cursor turns into an iBeam after the first click > >and stays an iBeam while over the "OK" button unless > >moved - if moved, it becomes a hand and can then click 'OK' > > > >This is on a Mac if that makes any difference. > > > > _______________________________________________ > use-revolution mailing list > use-revolution at lists.runrev.com > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution > From sims at ezpzapps.com Wed Feb 27 11:05:01 2002 From: sims at ezpzapps.com (sims) Date: Wed Feb 27 11:05:01 2002 Subject: answer error problem In-Reply-To: <003301c1bfa3$2bd7ec30$7c00a8c0@mckinley.dom> References: <003301c1bfa3$2bd7ec30$7c00a8c0@mckinley.dom> Message-ID: Thanks Ken, >I'd love to help, but I have a few questions: > >1) When you say the "answer error", which do you mean - the answer dialog >box, or the error dialog box? answer error "You must select (hilite) text before you can change the text style" > >2) When you say you have to "click it twice", where are you clicking it? "OK" > >3) If it is the error dialog box, can you post the code that is bringing up >the error? see below > >4) On a Mac running what OS? Mac 9.2.1 and OS 10.1.2 > >Thanks, > >Ken Ray Here's the full post I sent to the list yesterday: At 10:16 -0500 2/26/02, sims wrote: > >Problem: When the answer error pops up, I have to click it twice >in order to dismiss it. > >The cursor appears as a hand prior to first click... >The cursor turns into an iBeam after the first click >and stays an iBeam while over the "OK" button unless >moved - if moved, it becomes a hand and can then click 'OK' > >This is on a Mac if that makes any difference. > >This does not happen in Rev editing mode but >does occur opened from an 'opener' standalone (this is a Rev file in >which I want any changes to it to be saved). > >The 'answer' error appears over an area which has the following layered >items (starting with bottom to top): > >cd > image > either a player object or another image > opaque text field > >It occurs if the text field focus is or is not enabled. > > >on menuPick what > if the selectedText of fld "text" is "" > then > answer error "You must select (hilite) text before you can change >the text style" > exit menuPick > else > end if > set the label of me to what > put what into tStyle > put the textStyle of the selectedText into tOldStyle > set the textStyle of the selectedText to what > if the textStyle of the selectedText is empty > then > set the textStyle of the selectedText to tStyle > else > set the textStyle of the selectedText to tOldSTyle&comma&tStyle > end if >end menuPick ___________________________________________ http://www.EZPZapps.com info at EZPZapps.com Software - Internet Development - Consulting From JohnRule at aol.com Wed Feb 27 11:07:01 2002 From: JohnRule at aol.com (JohnRule at aol.com) Date: Wed Feb 27 11:07:01 2002 Subject: Socket problems and misc. Message-ID: I have been testing my (almost) completed application on all of my computers for compatibility (PC, MAC), and I have noticed some strange differences: Rev 1.1.1 B1 OS 9.1 (G4 500) OS 8.6 (G3 300) Windows 98 SE (Athalon 1Ghz) Windows 98 SE (Pentium II 400mhz) Windows 95 (Pentium 133 mhz) Opening a socket on a Mac OS 8.6 (PPC 300) takes a while (1 minute), and sending data to a socket (in a repeat loop) is terribly slow. The loop should be executing every 100 millisecs, but there is some contention that causes it to slow to once every second! I verified that if I comment out the "write to socket" line, then the loop proceeds at a normal pace. It is specifically the "write to socket" that is the problem...I am only sending a 7 char string (this works fine on all of the other computers). Opening a socket on Windows 95 (Pentium 133) takes a LONG time (3 minutes), but after that...everything works fine (even my socket repeat loops are speedy). Screen FX are slow on my Mac OS 8.6 (PPC 300). The FX are fast even on my old Windows 95 133mhz Pentium! Revolution does not like when my PC screen is 'Pivot' (www.portrait.com) enabled (in portrait mode). As soon as I activate any screen FX...Rev locks up. Overall, I am very pleased that I can just copy a project I have been working on to ANY computer...the fonts and the patterns compatibility was a bit disappointing, but there are ways around that. JR -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From csilverm at acs.ryerson.ca Wed Feb 27 11:17:01 2002 From: csilverm at acs.ryerson.ca (Charles Silverman) Date: Wed Feb 27 11:17:01 2002 Subject: Mouse polling answers for Scott Message-ID: Hi Scott, Thanks for not letting me off the hook :) >At the very least, you have to answer the question: is asynchronous >(real time) polling of the mouse buttons with the mouse function >adequate, or is it important to preserve the event-based >implementation of HyperCard (and I thought SuperCard, though I haven't >actually tested that)? In your case, I think the distinction would be >"is it acceptable for "the mouse" to return "up" even if the mouse had >been pressed down and up between sequential calls to the mouse >function? I need the entire queue of mouse events since each user action is significant for me. Some users have such a light and quick touch that it is significant. For other users, slight touches are accidental. So I've got to catch and process everything. If we're talking about the same thing, SuperCard preserves the events as well. There are times when I get rid of everything that's happened up until a point in order to start from a clean slate with "flushevents." Here's a shortened sample of how I register a user action... On mousedown repeat while the mouse is down end repeat -- user start scanning through three objects in order to select one put "alphabet,wordlist,editor" into tObjects repeat with loop = 1 to 3 set the threeD of fld (item loop of tObjects) to FALSE --hilite field if timedWait() then --scan the options in the field --- this might nest quite a bit deeper end if set the threeD of fld (item loop of tObjects) to TRUE --unhilite field end repeat End mousedown Function timedWait global gDwelltime --number of seconds to hilite the selection before --moving on to the next selection put the seconds into tStartTime repeat until the optionkey is down -- in case the loop goes forever :) if the seconds - tStartStart > gDwellTime then return FALSE if the mouse is down then repeat while the mouse is down --- I might do something here in case --- very spastic user can't release the switch end repeat return TRUE end repeat End timedWait > A related issue is with the "wait" command. With the current >synchronous mouse function "wait until the mouse is down" will always >return when the user clicks. With an async function it's possible >that you will miss a quick click because there may be a delay between >when the wait function is able to make sequential checks. If the >mouse goes down and then back up in that interval, you'll miss it. Then would doing "repeat while the mouse is down" be better than the wait. From jacque at hyperactivesw.com Wed Feb 27 12:09:01 2002 From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (Jacqueline Landman Gay) Date: Wed Feb 27 12:09:01 2002 Subject: reordering lists In-Reply-To: <200202270928.EAA08723@www.runrev.com> Message-ID: <749C39FC-2BA4-11D6-861D-003065D2A46A@hyperactivesw.com> On Wednesday, February 27, 2002, Ken Ray wrote: > > I just tested this in 2.4.1 and it still centers - I used my example and > "set the hilitedLines of field 1 to 6" and the field scrolled up as far as > it would go, showing 5,6,7 and 8 with line 6 hilited. Same here with 2.4.2b1. -- Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com From martin at atwork.bdx.co.uk Wed Feb 27 12:13:00 2002 From: martin at atwork.bdx.co.uk (Martin Baxter) Date: Wed Feb 27 12:13:00 2002 Subject: reordering lists ( a bit long, sorry) In-Reply-To: <200202260919.EAA10839@www.runrev.com> Message-ID: After investigation I conclude that, it is setting the hilitedline[s] from a script that has the side effect of vertically centering the line. The transcript dictionary doesn't mention it affecting the scroll at all never mind this 'eccentric centering' behaviour (if one can say such a thing), which is a shame as it would have saved me at least half a day of headscratching and futile workarounds had I reallised that to begin with. Incidentally, the HC compatible "select line x of ..." construct, doesn't exhibit this centering behaviour, instead, if necessaary it scrolls so that the selected line is the first or last visible line, exactly what I would ordinarily expect. The transcript dictionary pleads with us to use the hilitedline instead, but doesn't point out that the behaviour of the two constructs is functionally different. --- Why would I care? The short answer to that question would most likely only generate more questions so bear with me if you please, and Consider... I want to make a list field that allows me to reorder single lines by dragging them from place to place with the mouse. I want the drag to be constrained to that field only, - not field to field. Is this an unreasonable desire ? I don't think so, no, it's commonly done and I don't know any other way to reorder lists apart from clicky buttons, which are a bit too "eighties darling" for my liking, i.e. perhaps they were appropriate back in the days when our computers ran at the speed of treacle. This "dragreorderable list" behaviour is not provided for in the product at present, so I take what looks like the nearest available interface element and try to script it so it does what I want. --- What is supposed to happen? -- (please skip this if you already know) 1) mousedown on a list line, it hilites 2) drag the mouse - the originally clicked line remains hilited, other lines remain unhilited. - a graphic looking like a peeled off selection appears and follows the mouse pointer, with the graphic's movement constrained to the visible area of the field and the vertical axis. 3) If the mouse pointer goes outside the field boudary, the field scrolls to bring any invisible lines into view, leaving the line hiliting alone of course. 4) when the mouse is released, the graphics disappear, the originally clicked line is moved to between the list lines where the mouse release occurred and the original line is deleted. 5) the newly inserted line is left hilited, and in the same place it was when the mouse button was released. --- And what does happen when you try to achieve this? (or: "a day or 2 in the life of Mr. Average-scripter-guy") 1) OK, so far so so good 2) you drag the mouse. You've written a mousemove handler that displays your graphics, that's fine. But dragging the mouse also changes the hilitedline of course, which is not what you want. So you think ok, I'll just reset the hilitedline back to the original line every time I get a mousemove. This is OK I suppose except that you discover that setting the hilitedline insists on scrolling scroll the field for you, so that the line you have just re-hilited is vertically centred, even if the line in question was already visible. So you think OK I'll reset the scroll as well after I set the hilitedline. You gnash your teeth though because it occurs to you that if setting the hilitedline only affected the scroll when the affected line was actually invisible, it would be much less of a problem because you would at least be able to test whether the originally clicked line is currently visible or not, and skip setting its hilite if doing so would also cause a scroll to bring it back into view. The resulting fight between the component and the script looks flickery and feels odd to use, though it's not yet actually disastrous. 3) then the mouse pointer is dragged beyond the field boundary. Probably because the hilitedline is not next to the field boundary, the listfield perceives no need to scroll itself in response to the mouse leaving its rect, and sits there stubbornly doing nothing. So you start to script the field scrolling as well, at which point you are: setting the scroll, and sometimes setting the hilitedline as well, which of course wants to set the scroll according to its own assumptions of what is reasonable to do. Apparently what I'm trying to do is unreasonable. 4) After some tense mouse moves, you get the pointer where you want it and release the mouse. Sadly you move the mouse ever so slightly as you do so, triggering a change of the hilitedline, and therefore a dramatic re-scrolling of the field so that your moved line ends up being put in entirely the wrong place. 5) the new line is set to be the hilitedline which of course scrolls it to be at the vertical centre of the field, appearing to the user to spring away from his/her mousepointer as if stung. They think to themselves "did I do something wrong?" As you can see, most of the above is about trying to script a way around the automatic behaviour of a listfield, because the interface behaviour I want doesn't seem to have been allowed for in the design of the components available to me. --- So OK, it doesn't work, try another approach then. It occurs to me that the hypercard syntax surely didn't work like that, and if it is truly compatible here, it should work the same - right? Right! - so now I know a way to hilite a listline without causing it to always scroll to centre, even though I'm warned that using it is naughty, and personally I'm all in favour of migrating from deprecated constructs, it's just that currently I'm not in the mood to care. Also I reflect that I've gone way beyond just scripting a behaviour, I'm also scripting a way around a preset behaviour that's undesirable to me. Can't I turn off the preset behaviour? Well yes, I can turn off listbehaviour and autohiliting, but then I don't get the full-width hilite of a selected list-line any more, plus I would have to work out the clickline and clicktext for myself as well. which is all a bit depressing. --- Finally I conceive a way to (just about) achieve what I want, I'd hesitate to distribute it to others, but it works OK for "home use" at least. Maybe it'll get worked on and improved. 1) mousedown - get the clickline and clicktext - display a hidden field that "looks like" the selected line, in the position of the actual listline - set the hilitedline to 0 and then turn off autohiliting and therefore listbehavior. 2) mousemove - draw the graphics, scroll the field, move the fake selected line in sync with the field scroll and hide it when the selected line scrolls out of view 3) mouseup/mouserelease - move the dragged line if appropriate - hide all the graphics - turn autohiliting and listbehavior back on - use "select line x of field..." to hilite the moved line, without having it leap to field centre. Feel smug, after all I beat the house. Basically, the listbehavior helps me click and select a particular line in the fashion of a list, but thereafter its just in the way of what I want to do, so I have to turn it off, and resort to a nasty kludge to preserve the 'appearance' of a selected listline. Not so revolutionary, eh? --- what would have made life easier ? - Well, my uninformed and maybe also naive 2 pesetas worth of suggestions would be: a) A listfield that could be configured to do this all by itself. - that would be nice. b) A way to configure a listfield so that you could hilite and click a visible line in the usual manner of a list, but which either: ignored mouse drags, and therefore would only scroll if you used its scrollbar or scripted it, like a sort of locked textfield with 'list field like' line-hiliting and click selecting i guess, or which: could be drag-scrolled without losing the originally selected line (i.e. the line that was under mousedown). c) setting the hilitedline worked in the exact same way that: "select line x of field y" does. d) an additional parameter to "set the hilitedline of field x to n" such as: "without scroll" - the result would be a hilitedline that might perhaps be out of view, such as 'appears to happen' when you use the scrollbar. While this is perhaps trivial, even superficially pointless, had it been possible it wouldn't have taken me 3 days to reinvent this 'drag-reordered list' wheel. Sorry again for such a long post, martin baxter From kray at sonsothunder.com Wed Feb 27 12:50:01 2002 From: kray at sonsothunder.com (Ken Ray) Date: Wed Feb 27 12:50:01 2002 Subject: reordering lists ( a bit long, sorry) References: Message-ID: <006e01c1bfb6$92f9ebd0$7c00a8c0@mckinley.dom> Martin, Thank you for a very explanative description of the problem. It is interesting that the "select line x of field y" works properly... Hopefully it can be fixed for the next release, Ken Ray Sons of Thunder Software Email: kray at sonsothunder.com Web Site: http://www.sonsothunder.com/ From raney at metacard.com Wed Feb 27 14:08:01 2002 From: raney at metacard.com (Scott Raney) Date: Wed Feb 27 14:08:01 2002 Subject: Mouse polling answers for Scott In-Reply-To: <200202271701.MAA18789@www.runrev.com> Message-ID: On Wed, 27 Feb 2002 Charles Silverman wrote: > Thanks for not letting me off the hook :) > > >At the very least, you have to answer the question: is asynchronous > >(real time) polling of the mouse buttons with the mouse function > >adequate, or is it important to preserve the event-based > >implementation of HyperCard (and I thought SuperCard, though I haven't > >actually tested that)? In your case, I think the distinction would be > >"is it acceptable for "the mouse" to return "up" even if the mouse had > >been pressed down and up between sequential calls to the mouse > >function? > > I need the entire queue of mouse events since each user action is > significant for me. Some users have such a light and quick touch that it is > significant. For other users, slight touches are accidental. So I've got to > catch and process everything. If we're talking about the same thing, > SuperCard preserves the events as well. Can someone please verify this? We've had two anecdotal reports that SC does *not* work this way. Running Geoff's example script will clear up the issue once and for all I think. > There are times when I get rid of > everything that's happened up until a point in order to start from a clean > slate with "flushevents." > > Here's a shortened sample of how I register a user action... > > On mousedown > repeat while the mouse is down > end repeat I don't see the point of this: why not just handle mouseUp in the first place? > -- user start scanning through three objects in order to select one > put "alphabet,wordlist,editor" into tObjects > repeat with loop = 1 to 3 > set the threeD of fld (item loop of tObjects) to FALSE --hilite field > if timedWait() then > --scan the options in the field > --- this might nest quite a bit deeper > end if > set the threeD of fld (item loop of tObjects) to TRUE --unhilite field > end repeat > End mousedown > > > Function timedWait > global gDwelltime --number of seconds to hilite the selection before > --moving on to the next selection > put the seconds into tStartTime > repeat until the optionkey is down -- in case the loop goes forever :) > if the seconds - tStartStart > gDwellTime then return FALSE > if the mouse is down then You will potentially miss this mouse down event if we switched to an async mouse function (if it goes down and back up between sequential calls), but not with the current event-based implementation. Which of course brings us to what is another key issue here: despite having seen statements from various people about the unreliability of the mouse function, we still *don't* have a reproducible example where it returns the wrong value. If it's as common as some people seem to think it is, it should be possible to come up with such an example and send in a bug report so that it can be fixed. > repeat while the mouse is down > --- I might do something here in case > --- very spastic user can't release the switch > end repeat > return TRUE > end repeat > End timedWait > > > A related issue is with the "wait" command. With the current > >synchronous mouse function "wait until the mouse is down" will always > >return when the user clicks. With an async function it's possible > >that you will miss a quick click because there may be a delay between > >when the wait function is able to make sequential checks. If the > >mouse goes down and then back up in that interval, you'll miss it. > > Then would doing "repeat while the mouse is down" be better than the wait. But still vastly inferior to doing it the right way which is to use mouseDown/mouseUp/mouseRelease, possibly in combination with "send .. in" to implement a time out. These are 100% reliable and will also greatly improve the responsiveness of your application. Doing it this way would take no more lines of script than your example, though it does require thinking slightly differently about the problem. Regards, Scott ******************************************************** Scott Raney raney at metacard.com http://www.metacard.com MetaCard: You know, there's an easier way to do that... From raney at metacard.com Wed Feb 27 14:43:01 2002 From: raney at metacard.com (Scott Raney) Date: Wed Feb 27 14:43:01 2002 Subject: Mouse polling In-Reply-To: <200202270928.EAA08723@www.runrev.com> Message-ID: On Wed, 27 Feb 2002 Curry wrote: (snip) > And that's why we have hammers to pound nails, although with practice you > might be able to drive nails with another tool or with a rock or even your > bare hands or your forehead. If I picked up on Scott's messages correctly (I > don't want to put words in his mouth but) it seemed like he was willing to > consider reworking the functions and keeping them in a more logical and > simplified form if people could indicate whether changing the behavior would > be acceptable for them, and if so, how should it behave. This has devolved into a bit of a philosophical discussion, but my position would have to be that removing the mouse function would not be equivalent to denying people a hammer, it would be denying them a pair of Vice Grips. As any tool aficionado will tell you, Vice Grips are a tool used only by people who don't have (or don't even know) the right tool perform a particular job. They're a lousy pair of pliers, a totally unacceptable replacement for an adjustable wrench (which is itself merely a poor substitute for having a proper socket set), and make a pretty clumsy clamp. I own several different sizes, but can't recall ever having used them. I'd have no problem at all if someone wanted to ban the tool entirely (hey, I'll turn mine in tomorrow if you want! ;-) which is the same position anybody who understood the issues here would take WRT the mouse function, at least WRT use in a script that you plan to use more than once or to distribute to other people. I don't seriously think we can get away with deleting the mouse function entirely, but would entertain the possibility of adding a property like the explicitVariables that you'd have to change from the default to allow the script to compile. I propose we call it the ImGoingToTakeTheQuickAndDirtyApproachRatherThanDoingItRight. It would default to false, and you'd set it to true if you want to have the mouse and the mouseClick not cause script compilation errors ;-) Regards, Scott > Curry Kenworthy ******************************************************** Scott Raney raney at metacard.com http://www.metacard.com MetaCard: You know, there's an easier way to do that... From mattiedenton at mac.com Wed Feb 27 16:49:00 2002 From: mattiedenton at mac.com (Matt Denton) Date: Wed Feb 27 16:49:00 2002 Subject: Sorry for the repeat x3 In-Reply-To: <200202261709.MAA19634@www.runrev.com> Message-ID: <9165FB4A-2BC3-11D6-8BB4-0003930B4708@mac.com> Dear List Apologies for the 3x repeated message "A helping hand with Graphics speed", a small glitch with my server has repeated all messages 3x over. Many many thanks to Scott for the helping hand. I will try *no* overlay PNGs and script control of GIFs, not sure if it will help but at least it is more reassuring... someone is getting good results. Tinker tinker is the Rev way... Matt From bvlahos at jpl.nasa.gov Wed Feb 27 17:27:01 2002 From: bvlahos at jpl.nasa.gov (Bill Vlahos) Date: Wed Feb 27 17:27:01 2002 Subject: Adding contents to a option button Message-ID: I would like to script adding contents items to an Option Button but I can't see how. How can I add contents for a button via a script? Thanks, Bill Vlahos From scott at tactilemedia.com Wed Feb 27 17:47:01 2002 From: scott at tactilemedia.com (Scott Rossi) Date: Wed Feb 27 17:47:01 2002 Subject: Adding contents to a option button In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Wednesday, February 27, 2002, at 02:24 PM, Bill Vlahos wrote: > How can I add contents for a button via a script? Put "Option 1" & cr & "Option 2" & cr & "Option 3" into btn 1 Regards, Scott Rossi Creative Director, Tactile Media scott at tactilemedia.com http://www.tactilemedia.com From GSaylor at ATP.com Wed Feb 27 18:34:01 2002 From: GSaylor at ATP.com (Greg Saylor) Date: Wed Feb 27 18:34:01 2002 Subject: Constraining user input... Message-ID: <751AC1038CDDD2118753080009FCD55501B2653E@m1.atp.com> Hello, I am completely new to Revolution, but am very interested in using it for on-going projects.... My single biggest need though is to be able to constrain the user input to a set number of characters and lines... For example, for a textbox entry they should only be able to enter 30 characters of text per line and only 3 lines..... Is this possible with Revolution?.. If you could provide an example I sure would appreciate it..... Thanks! Greg Saylor Senior Systems Integrator -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jphurley at jps.net Wed Feb 27 18:35:01 2002 From: jphurley at jps.net (Jim Hurley) Date: Wed Feb 27 18:35:01 2002 Subject: Polling the mouse In-Reply-To: <200202271701.MAA18775@www.runrev.com> References: <200202271701.MAA18775@www.runrev.com> Message-ID: Not since Mickey has there been such genuine affection for a mouse, such concern for his well being, whether he is up or down, or just moving about. It seems we do not appreciate the simple things in life until they are threatened. By the way, I just heard a rumor that in the next release, MC/RR will no longer recognize the keyboard. All communication will be through miss Cleo. -- Jim Hurley From curry at kagi.com Wed Feb 27 18:55:02 2002 From: curry at kagi.com (Curry) Date: Wed Feb 27 18:55:02 2002 Subject: Mouse polling (sheesh!) In-Reply-To: <200202271609.LAA16957@www.runrev.com> Message-ID: Kevin Miller wrote: > I'm not entirely clear why there is such concern here: I have not at any > stage even suggested that these functions will be dropped. In fact I have > said very little on the subject. We are having some debate as to the > precise behavior of these functions and may or may not make changes. But > there has been no suggestion, at any time, from anyone on the Runtime team, > that these functions will be dropped. So can we please end this aspect of > the debate now. Well, I'm very sorry to have bothered people (and spent a lot of my own time) pleading for a cause that didn't exist. The reason I did so is that Scott's post did say that these functions would be deprecated and said we should move away from them. I know that Scott is part of MetaCard and not Runtime, but I think you can see why such a statement from "the man" himself led me to believe that the functions in question were indeed likely to be removed. Although some people were debating about the future behaviors of the functions, I believe that even more were talking about how to get by without them, so I may not have been the only one who was mistaken in thinking the functions were over the trash chute lid and the level was about to be pulled. Again, sorry, and thanks for clarifying what's going on so that we don't have to worry about it. Sheesh! There's nothing like worrying and arguing for something and then finding out it was all for nothing and it would have been better to have stayed in bed. Curry Kenworthy From ambassador at FourthWorld.com Wed Feb 27 19:37:01 2002 From: ambassador at FourthWorld.com (Richard Gaskin) Date: Wed Feb 27 19:37:01 2002 Subject: Mouse polling answers for Scott In-Reply-To: <200202272356.SAA27029@www.runrev.com> Message-ID: Scott Raney writes: > despite having seen statements from various people about the > unreliability of the mouse function, we still *don't* have a > reproducible example where it returns the wrong value. If > it's as common as some people seem to think it is, it should > be possible to come up with such an example and send in a bug > report so that it can be fixed. We're working on it. I haven't been able to recipe-ize it yet, but I can assure you I get enough reports from my testers, and have seen it often enough myself, that I know it's real. It seems sporadic in nature, and given your description of the underpinning on the OS side we can both appreciate the difficulty at tracking this down. But I have to admit that instead of spending another hundred hours on the issue (aggregate over the last couple years across various projects), it's been much simpler to just "do things right", as you'd say, and rewrite the handlers using mouseMove. So my chances for tracking this down are reduced, and for good reasons we both appreciate. :) But the exercise of rewriting those routines leads us to this: > But still vastly inferior to doing it the right way which is to use > mouseDown/mouseUp/mouseRelease, possibly in combination with "send > .. in" to implement a time out. These are 100% reliable and will > also greatly improve the responsiveness of your application. Doing it > this way would take no more lines of script than your example, though > it does require thinking slightly differently about the problem. Very much so. It seems one way we can put this whole thing to rest happily for everyone is to provude adquate education on the specifics of replacing the asynch loop calls with mouseMove. Can anyone provide an example of the check-the-mouse-within-a-loop method that cannot be reproduced using mouseMove? Or is there at least a handler you're having trouble with? Maybe we could rewrite your handler here, and in doing so lend a greater understanding of the issue to everyone. -- Richard Gaskin Fourth World Media Corporation Custom Software and Web Development for All Major Platforms Developer of WebMerge 1.9: Publish any Database on Any Site ___________________________________________________________ Ambassador at FourthWorld.com http://www.FourthWorld.com Tel: 323-225-3717 AIM: FourthWorldInc From sarahr at genesearch.com.au Wed Feb 27 19:57:01 2002 From: sarahr at genesearch.com.au (Sarah Reichelt) Date: Wed Feb 27 19:57:01 2002 Subject: Constraining user input... In-Reply-To: Message-ID: I don't know that this is a very elegant solution, but it works so it can get you started. Put this in the script of your text entry field. on keyDown theKey if the number of lines in me >= 3 and \ the number of chars in line 3 of me >= 30 then beep exit keyDown else put word 2 of the selectedLine of me into theLine if the number of chars in line theLine of me >= 30 then beep exit keyDown end if else pass keyDown end if end keyDown Cheers, Sarah > Hello, > > I am completely new to Revolution, but am very interested in using it for > on-going projects.... My single biggest need though is to be able to > constrain the user input to a set number of characters and lines... For > example, for a textbox entry they should only be able to enter 30 characters > of text per line and only 3 lines..... > > Is this possible with Revolution?.. If you could provide an example I sure > would appreciate it..... > > Thanks! > > Greg Saylor > Senior Systems Integrator From jperryl at ecs.fullerton.edu Wed Feb 27 19:59:00 2002 From: jperryl at ecs.fullerton.edu (Judy Perry) Date: Wed Feb 27 19:59:00 2002 Subject: Polling the mouse In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Not if the Feds have anything to say about it @;-) Judy On Wed, 27 Feb 2002, Jim Hurley wrote: > By the way, I just heard a rumor that in the next release, MC/RR > will no longer recognize the keyboard. All communication will be > through miss Cleo. From sarahr at genesearch.com.au Wed Feb 27 20:09:00 2002 From: sarahr at genesearch.com.au (Sarah Reichelt) Date: Wed Feb 27 20:09:00 2002 Subject: Bug Reports go where? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: > personally i find the geometry manager to be buggy and to really mess up > after resizing a window a few times (it works then all of a sudden it'll > send my controls flying out of the visible space).. I too found this, but Kevin suggested that after any manual re-sizing or re-positioning, the geometry needs to be re-cached. Try typing "revCacheGeometry" into the message box after any changes but BEFORE re-sizing the stack or going to a different card, and I think it will make a big difference. Sarah From pixelbird at interisland.net Thu Feb 28 00:02:01 2002 From: pixelbird at interisland.net (Ken Norris (dialup)) Date: Thu Feb 28 00:02:01 2002 Subject: same post 3 times In-Reply-To: Message-ID: on 2/27/02 2:11 AM, Heather Williams at heather at runrev.com wrote: >> it might be a list-server problem. >> >> Please don't take it personally, Heather :-) > > Not at all, why would I? This used to happen a lot more with the old list > software, but the reason for that no longer exists, and in fact it happens > far less frequently these days. I don't think the list software is to blame, > though I am always open to be convinced. These things happen from time to > time, the wonders of modern technology... ---------- I think it happens in the outgoing mail buffer at the email provider's site, or something in between if more than one provider. Both ends should be notified, and Yahoo, too for that matter, so they can monitor. It seems to happen every so often no matter what, but if it gets too repetitive, it should be fixed. Never saw three in a row before, though. Best regards, Ken N. From pixelbird at interisland.net Thu Feb 28 00:16:01 2002 From: pixelbird at interisland.net (Ken Norris (dialup)) Date: Thu Feb 28 00:16:01 2002 Subject: Plain text posts please In-Reply-To: Message-ID: on 2/26/02 9:57 PM, Terry Vogelaar at terry at discovery.nl wrote: > Maybe your e-mail client thinks that the "?" is part of the URL too. So just > try http://lists.runrev.com/pipermail/use-revolution/ ---------- No. It didn't show up in the URL. I think maybe there was some kind of internet problem. I got it now. This will be very helpful. I was hoping for an online list access, though, back for more than 4 months. Is anyone storing them historically? Thanks, Ken N. From GSaylor at ATP.com Thu Feb 28 00:33:01 2002 From: GSaylor at ATP.com (Greg Saylor) Date: Thu Feb 28 00:33:01 2002 Subject: Constraining user input... Message-ID: <751AC1038CDDD2118753080009FCD55501B2653F@m1.atp.com> Sarah, Thank you so much for the quick response.... This actually works quite well and is a great example, thank you!.... I do have one more question though, this is more out of curiosity I suppose... Is there some way to store the "constraint" information as part of the field definition and make this a function which gets called?.. THe reason I ask is because I have to do this with about 150 different fields and it would get rather tedious to be cutting and pasting for each one of them..... Again, thank you very much for your help -- I really *REALLY* appreciate it.... Greg Saylor Senior Systems Integrator >I don't know that this is a very elegant solution, but it works so it can >get you started. Put this in the script of your text entry field. > >on keyDown theKey > if the number of lines in me >= 3 and \ > the number of chars in line 3 of me >= 30 then > beep > exit keyDown > else > put word 2 of the selectedLine of me into theLine > if the number of chars in line theLine of me >= 30 then > beep > exit keyDown > end if > else > pass keyDown > end if >end keyDown > >Cheers, >Sarah > > >> Hello, >> >> I am completely new to Revolution, but am very interested in using it for >> on-going projects.... My single biggest need though is to be able to >> constrain the user input to a set number of characters and lines... For >> example, for a textbox entry they should only be able to enter 30 characters >> of text per line and only 3 lines..... >> >> Is this possible with Revolution?.. If you could provide an example I sure >> would appreciate it..... >> >> Thanks! >> >> Greg Saylor >> Senior Systems Integrator -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From pixelbird at interisland.net Thu Feb 28 01:16:01 2002 From: pixelbird at interisland.net (Ken Norris (dialup)) Date: Thu Feb 28 01:16:01 2002 Subject: Mouse polling In-Reply-To: Message-ID: on 2/27/02 11:40 AM, Scott Raney at raney at metacard.com wrote: > They're a lousy pair of pliers, > a totally unacceptable replacement for an adjustable wrench (which is > itself merely a poor substitute for having a proper socket set), and > make a pretty clumsy clamp. ---------- Well, you know, vise grips aren't designed to do any of the above. Their for clamping things together _temporarily_ so you can have both hands free to work on it, or to hold things you're bending when you simply can't maintain the strength needed long enough (you need the tension adjustment here). If you ever do any welding or soldering (not electrical), you wouldn't want to be without them. You'll see more varieties of vise grips in a metal working shop than you ever imagined existed. They sink heat really well, too. But, to use the metaphor, if you're using 'the mouse' where more reliable mouse commands will work, then I think I agree you're indeed using the wrong tool. But if you need it to hold stuff together while you cross-check for other actions, then, perhaps it's viable. Like what's already been said, what I think should happen is: show a 'the mouse is--" script in a situation where the writer couldn't make 'mousexx' work right, and a 'mousexx' script that does do exactly the same thing, in a heavily commented side-by-side comparison. Best regards, Ken N. From curry at kagi.com Thu Feb 28 01:28:00 2002 From: curry at kagi.com (Curry) Date: Thu Feb 28 01:28:00 2002 Subject: Polling behavior In-Reply-To: <200202272356.SAA27029@www.runrev.com> Message-ID: For the mouse() function, with direct polling, you'd never be stuck but you might miss something. With event-driven (as it is now), you may get the wrong answer, or even get stuck sometimes because of the limitations. I was informed off-list that in some newer OS's, direct calls for the mouse state are not even supported or recommended by the OS. So, how about a way to accomodate both desired behaviors: The engine keeps track of all the mouseup and mousedown events that happen since the handler starts, not just to the very limited extent as with the current behavior. Then have a global preference of simulating direct polling behavior or getting events in order with each call. If direct polling was simulated, the time of the call could be compared to the time of the events, and the most recent state according to the events would be returned. But without the current limitations, it would never return the incorrect state or get stuck like it does now. For the buffered event behavior, you could get the next event after the last one your script had seen, no matter how many events had happened since. The other advantage would be that it would work well with the newer OS's and not make direct calls. I'm not a techie and don't know how easy or difficult it would be to implement, but if it would work, it would seem to solve a lot of the problems. Possible? (I would like to add that I agree to a certain extent with the other side of the argument, that people should avoid overusing the mouse function and using it in the wrong situations. I think it's especially good for students and convenience in roughing something out quickly for testing, but also in some special situations in serious scripts. Still, it would be good to have a reliable behavior that met a wider range of needs and returned a more reliable value, for when the function is used, whether out of necessity or preference or whatever. It would be nice for it to never lock up.) Curry Kenworthy From wmb at internettrainer.com Thu Feb 28 05:42:01 2002 From: wmb at internettrainer.com (Wolfgang M. Bereuter) Date: Thu Feb 28 05:42:01 2002 Subject: finding topics already discussed In-Reply-To: <200202271609.LAA16957@www.runrev.com> Message-ID: am 27.02.2002 17:09 Uhr schrieb use-revolution-request at lists.runrev.com unter use-revolution-request at lists.runrev.com: > We do have archives. You can browse them online or download them and search > them. Online search is something we will do soon. > > http://lists.runrev.com/pipermail/use-revolution/ Thanks, thats great, but why it was so hidden until nor or I have missed the info about it? I dont know the solution behind this archive, but would it be much more work to go back, let?s say, until 1.1.2000 ? regards Wolfgang M. Bereuter Learn easy with trainingsmaps and outliner INTERNETTRAINER Wolfgang M. Bereuter Edelhofg. 17/11, A-1180 Wien, Austria ............................... http://www.internettrainer.com wmb at internettrainer.com ............................... Tel: ++43/1/ 961 0418 Fax: ++43/1/ 479 2539 From benr_mc at cogapp.com Thu Feb 28 07:22:01 2002 From: benr_mc at cogapp.com (Ben Rubinstein) Date: Thu Feb 28 07:22:01 2002 Subject: where is "answer" defined? Message-ID: Is it built into the engine, or is it in Rev? And if the latter, where would I find it (I've found the "answer dialog" stack, but not the script). TIA Ben Rubinstein | Email: benr_mc at cogapp.com Cognitive Applications Ltd | Phone: +44 (0)1273-821600 http://www.cogapp.com | Fax : +44 (0)1273-728866 From kevin at runrev.com Thu Feb 28 07:27:01 2002 From: kevin at runrev.com (Kevin Miller) Date: Thu Feb 28 07:27:01 2002 Subject: where is "answer" defined? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On 28/2/02 12:19 pm, Ben Rubinstein wrote: > Is it built into the engine, or is it in Rev? And if the latter, where > would I find it (I've found the "answer dialog" stack, but not the script). edit script of cd 1 of stack "answer dialog". Kevin Kevin Miller Runtime Revolution Limited - Power to the Developer! Tel: +44 (0) 870 747 1165. Fax: +44 (0)1639 830 707. From Stgecft at aol.com Thu Feb 28 08:12:01 2002 From: Stgecft at aol.com (Stgecft at aol.com) Date: Thu Feb 28 08:12:01 2002 Subject: Polling the mouse Message-ID: <53.12ca615e.29af8603@aol.com> In a message dated 2/27/02 6:33:47 PM, jphurley at jps.net writes: << By the way, I just heard a rumor that in the next release, MC/RR will no longer recognize the keyboard. All communication will be through miss Cleo. >> You joke...but I bet you have just touched the next big discussion .... It's like the game telephone, you say one thing and we weed through a ton of e-mail's. Randy From benr_mc at cogapp.com Thu Feb 28 09:06:01 2002 From: benr_mc at cogapp.com (Ben Rubinstein) Date: Thu Feb 28 09:06:01 2002 Subject: where is "answer" defined? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: on 28/2/02 12:25 PM, Kevin Miller at kevin at runrev.com wrote: >> Is it built into the engine, or is it in Rev? And if the latter, where >> would I find it (I've found the "answer dialog" stack, but not the script). > > edit script of cd 1 of stack "answer dialog". Thanks for this swift reply, Kevin. I'm still searching for the actual definition of "answer" - ie where's the code that sets up the dialogData and then opens the "answer dialog" stack? What are the licensing issues if I want to duplicate this code and the "answer dialog" stack, to make a version with some slight mods, that I then want to build into a standalone app and distribute? TIA, Ben Rubinstein | Email: benr_mc at cogapp.com Cognitive Applications Ltd | Phone: +44 (0)1273-821600 http://www.cogapp.com | Fax : +44 (0)1273-728866 From kevin at runrev.com Thu Feb 28 09:16:00 2002 From: kevin at runrev.com (Kevin Miller) Date: Thu Feb 28 09:16:00 2002 Subject: where is "answer" defined? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On 28/2/02 2:04 pm, Ben Rubinstein wrote: >> edit script of cd 1 of stack "answer dialog". > > Thanks for this swift reply, Kevin. I'm still searching for the actual > definition of "answer" - ie where's the code that sets up the dialogData and > then opens the "answer dialog" stack? > > What are the licensing issues if I want to duplicate this code and the > "answer dialog" stack, to make a version with some slight mods, that I then > want to build into a standalone app and distribute? The dialogData is set by the engine, the script in cd 1 of stack "answer dialog" does the parsing, so is the place to look. The dialog is a substack of the Home stack. We don't mind if you copy it and edit it but don't provide any support for doing this. Kevin Kevin Miller Runtime Revolution Limited - Power to the Developer! Tel: +44 (0) 870 747 1165. Fax: +44 (0)1639 830 707. From martin at atwork.bdx.co.uk Thu Feb 28 10:30:01 2002 From: martin at atwork.bdx.co.uk (Martin Baxter) Date: Thu Feb 28 10:30:01 2002 Subject: Mouse Polling Message-ID: Once I had a mouse that had a "bouncy" microswitch in it. This caused mouse down/up/down/up to be put in the event queue (sometimes) for a single click of the mouse button, i.e. unintended mouse events. This made a real mess of scripts that "wait until the mouse is down" or "repeat until the mouse is down", which had worked fine with a different (presumably better quality) mouse. I had to include theoretically unnnecessary "wait until the mouse is up" commands, to filter out the extra mousedown event before beginning my loops or whatever. I don't know if it's relevant to what you're talking about or not, but your post just reminded me of it. (P.S. That particular mouse is now an ex-mouse) martin Richard Gaskin wrote: > >Scott Raney writes: > >> despite having seen statements from various people about the >> unreliability of the mouse function, we still *don't* have a >> reproducible example where it returns the wrong value. If >> it's as common as some people seem to think it is, it should >> be possible to come up with such an example and send in a bug >> report so that it can be fixed. > >We're working on it. I haven't been able to recipe-ize it yet, but I can >assure you I get enough reports from my testers, and have seen it often >enough myself, that I know it's real. > >It seems sporadic in nature, and given your description of the underpinning >on the OS side we can both appreciate the difficulty at tracking this down. m a r t i n martin baxter Cambridge UK From benr_mc at cogapp.com Thu Feb 28 10:33:01 2002 From: benr_mc at cogapp.com (Ben Rubinstein) Date: Thu Feb 28 10:33:01 2002 Subject: where is "answer" defined? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: on 28/2/02 2:14 PM, Kevin Miller at kevin at runrev.com wrote: > The dialogData is set by the engine, the script in cd 1 of stack "answer > dialog" does the parsing, so is the place to look. Ah, I was hoping to modify the link between the command and the setting up of the dialog data, to persuade it to parse some extra parameters and go to a variant version of the stack. Ah well... > The dialog is a substack of the Home stack. We don't mind if you copy it and > edit it but don't provide any support for doing this. Great, thanks. Ben Rubinstein | Email: benr_mc at cogapp.com Cognitive Applications Ltd | Phone: +44 (0)1273-821600 http://www.cogapp.com | Fax : +44 (0)1273-728866 From tereza at califex.com Thu Feb 28 11:02:01 2002 From: tereza at califex.com (Tereza Snyder) Date: Thu Feb 28 11:02:01 2002 Subject: where is "answer" defined? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: on 02.28.02 09:30 AM, Ben Rubinstein wrote: > Ah, I was hoping to modify the link between the command and the setting up > of the dialog data, to persuade it to parse some extra parameters and go to > a variant version of the stack. Ah well... > If you don't mind using your own version of the commands there's nothing easier than making your own special ask/answer dialogs. First, clone the provided stacks, give them your own name, and make them substacks of your mainstack. Next, in your mainstack or a library stack script, write a function like: function MyAnswer pPrompt, pBtn1, pBtn2, pBtn3 or function MyAsk pPrompt, pDefault These functions set up the dialogdata for your dialog, opens your dialog stack as modal, reads the dialogdata after the stack closes, and returns the appropriate value. Add whatever parameters you need. Next, edit the dialog(s) themselves to interpret your dialogdata. I usually rip out most of the formatting and resizing code, because I know what I need. Finally, replace calls to Ask and/or Answer with calls to your function, e.g.: ask "whatever" with "something" if it is "nothing" then --etc --->>> get MyAsk("whatever", "something", the loc of the topstack, myParameter) if it is "nothing" then.... I routinely do this to make appropriate dialogs for my applications, with specializations like: adding graphics, formatting fields with the right fonts, setting the screen location as a parameter, incorporating checkboxes or pick lists etc. I do the same for the execution error dialog so that it looks and behaves my way for the end user. That requires a bit of finagling with the errordialog function, but it's not hard. tereza . . .. ... ..... ACT AGAINST ENTROPY! ..... ... .. . . From rcozens at pon.net Thu Feb 28 13:25:00 2002 From: rcozens at pon.net (Rob Cozens) Date: Thu Feb 28 13:25:00 2002 Subject: Polling the mouse In-Reply-To: References: <200202271701.MAA18775@www.runrev.com> <200202271701.MAA18775@www.runrev.com> Message-ID: >By the way, I just heard a rumor that in the next release, MC/RR >will no longer recognize the keyboard. All communication will be >through miss Cleo. Jim, et al: Great news! I've been waiting for this development for years: Somehow the computer instructions I have in my head often don't make it to the keyboard correrctly. Since I don't have HAL to read my lips, Cleo's invtervention would be most appreciated. I presume Cleo's services are included in my license fee. :{`) Rob Cozens CCW, Serendipity Software Company "And I, which was two fooles, do so grow three; Who are a little wise, the best fooles bee." from "The Triple Foole" by John Donne (1572-1631) From saultsj at missouri.edu Thu Feb 28 15:52:01 2002 From: saultsj at missouri.edu (J. Scott Saults) Date: Thu Feb 28 15:52:01 2002 Subject: use-revolution digest, Vol 1 #233 - 11 msgs In-Reply-To: <200202272356.SAA26970@www.runrev.com> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020228114208.00a76140@pop.email.missouri.edu> Scott Raney writes >You will potentially miss this mouse down event if we switched to an >async mouse function (if it goes down and back up between sequential >calls), but not with the current event-based implementation. Which of >course brings us to what is another key issue here: despite having >seen statements from various people about the unreliability of the >mouse function, we still *don't* have a reproducible example where it >returns the wrong value. The Revolution transcript dictionary's entry for the mouse function does not mention any past events within the handler. It simply states: >Use the mouse function to check whether the user is pressing a mouse button. > >Value: >The mouse function returns down if the key is pressed and up if it's not. That all seems very present tense to me. Is there anything in the Revolution documentation that indicates the mouse function SHOULD operate like the mouseClick function and return what has occurred "since the event that caused the current handler to run..", rather than just "whether the user is pressing a mouse button"? As I've admitted, I'm easy to confuse. But does anyone else think the dictionary's current explanation of the mouse function is misleading, or at least a little unclear, if , as Scott Raney says, the mouse is INTENDED to 'return "down" if the user clicked down anytime between when the handler started running and when the function is called...'? This documentation seems to suggest that down is "the wrong value" if the user is NOT "pressing a mouse button" when the mouse function is called. If it is supposed to really mean to use the mouse function to check whether the user HAS PRESSED a mouse button since the currently handler started, then why not say that? Obviously, the following HyperCard HyperTalk documentation is also misleading, >Use the mouse to return the current state of the mouse button, and the mouseClick to check whether the mouse has been clicked in the current handler. But, is that a good reason to perpetuate the obfuscation? I really don't care whether Revolution/MC implements the mouse function like it works in HyperCard or SuperCard, but could its description in the transcript dictionary be clarified to help the user know what to expect? From iansummerfield at btconnect.com Thu Feb 28 15:57:01 2002 From: iansummerfield at btconnect.com (Ian Summerfield) Date: Thu Feb 28 15:57:01 2002 Subject: Constraining user input... In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Watch out for the power user who comes along and does a paste into your field! The paste won't trigger the keydown! You'll need a closefield handler to compliment the keydown to get rid of the junk they paste: On closefield put line 1 to 3 of me into me -- keep only the first 3 lines put char 1 to 30 of line 1 of me into line 1 of me -- 30 chars per line put char 1 to 30 of line 2 of me into line 2 of me -- 30 chars per line put char 1 to 30 of line 3 of me into line 3 of me -- 30 chars per line End closefield On 28/2/02 12:54 am, "Sarah Reichelt" scribed: > I don't know that this is a very elegant solution, but it works so it can > get you started. Put this in the script of your text entry field. > > on keyDown theKey > if the number of lines in me >= 3 and \ > the number of chars in line 3 of me >= 30 then > beep > exit keyDown > else > put word 2 of the selectedLine of me into theLine > if the number of chars in line theLine of me >= 30 then > beep > exit keyDown > end if > else > pass keyDown > end if > end keyDown > > Cheers, > Sarah > > >> Hello, >> >> I am completely new to Revolution, but am very interested in using it for >> on-going projects.... My single biggest need though is to be able to >> constrain the user input to a set number of characters and lines... For >> example, for a textbox entry they should only be able to enter 30 characters >> of text per line and only 3 lines..... >> >> Is this possible with Revolution?.. If you could provide an example I sure >> would appreciate it..... >> >> Thanks! >> >> Greg Saylor >> Senior Systems Integrator > > > _______________________________________________ > use-revolution mailing list > use-revolution at lists.runrev.com > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution ---------------------------------- Ian Summerfield Macintosh Consultant - Hastings UK ICQ: 4378866 ---------------------------------- This E-mail is from Ian Summerfield's home system. The contents and any attachments to it include information that is private and confidential and should only be read by those persons to whom they are addressed. Ian accepts no liability for any loss or damage suffered by any person arising from the use of this e-mail. Ian does not accept any responsibility for viruses and it is your responsibility to check the email and attachments (if any). If you have received this e-mail in error, please destroy and delete the message from your computer. From iansummerfield at btconnect.com Thu Feb 28 16:23:01 2002 From: iansummerfield at btconnect.com (Ian Summerfield) Date: Thu Feb 28 16:23:01 2002 Subject: DO AS WE SAY - not as we do! Message-ID: So after spending many hours recoding my stack to use a combination of mousedown, mousemove, and mouseup instead of calling mouseloc in a repeat loop, I thought I'd have reliability. The mouse still sometimes gets stuck down, dragging things around I don't want to drag around, so I figured maybe Revolution itself is breaking Scott's rules. Now, I poke around Revolution's own scripts and find this gem: repeat while the mouse is down put the mouseloc into line tPoint of tOriginalPoints set points of the target to tOriginalPoints end repeat It's a part the script of the button "revReshape" in the stack "revTools", or the tool palette if you like. I trust this will be fixed in the next release to use mousedown, mousemove, etc. -i- From kevin at runrev.com Thu Feb 28 16:42:01 2002 From: kevin at runrev.com (Kevin Miller) Date: Thu Feb 28 16:42:01 2002 Subject: DO AS WE SAY - not as we do! In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On 28/2/02 9:20 pm, Ian Summerfield wrote: > So after spending many hours recoding my stack to use a combination of > mousedown, mousemove, and mouseup instead of calling mouseloc in a repeat > loop, I thought I'd have reliability. The mouse still sometimes gets stuck > down, dragging things around I don't want to drag around, so I figured > maybe Revolution itself is breaking Scott's rules. > > Now, I poke around Revolution's own scripts and find this gem: > > repeat while the mouse is down > put the mouseloc into line tPoint of tOriginalPoints > set points of the target to tOriginalPoints > end repeat > > It's a part the script of the button "revReshape" in the stack "revTools", > or the tool palette if you like. I trust this will be fixed in the next > release to use mousedown, mousemove, etc. Yeah, there are one or two places that we built but never got around to changing - that one in particular was from an old script that we wrote a very long time back! ;-) Changing this is on the to-do list for 1.1.1. Kevin Kevin Miller Runtime Revolution Limited - Power to the Developer! Tel: +44 (0) 870 747 1165. Fax: +44 (0)1639 830 707. From gcanyon at inspiredlogic.com Thu Feb 28 16:53:01 2002 From: gcanyon at inspiredlogic.com (Geoff Canyon) Date: Thu Feb 28 16:53:01 2002 Subject: Mouse polling answers for Scott In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: At 12:05 PM -0700 2/27/02, Scott Raney wrote: >Can someone please verify this? We've had two anecdotal reports that >SC does *not* work this way. Running Geoff's example script will >clear up the issue once and for all I think. I tested SuperCard 3.5.1 with the following script: on mouseUp repeat with i = 1000 down to 1 put i end repeat put the mouse end mouseUp If you click the button, the numbers run by, and the message box ends up with "up" -- so far so good. If you click the button, then do a half-click -- press and hold the mouse button -- the numbers run by, and the message box ends up with "down" -- this is also expected, and matches HC and Rev/MC. If you click twice, you get two possible behaviors, both of which differ from HC/MC/Rev. -- If the second click is outside the button, then the appropriate word is displayed at the end of the countdown -- down if the mouse button is depressed, up if it is not. You can click as many times as you like outside the button, only the actual state of the button at the end of the countdown is reflected. -- If the second click (while the counter is running) is on the button, the button does a second mouseUp when it finishes the first. The word "down" or "up" correctly flashes by as SuperCard goes back to counting down from 1000. In fact, you seem to be able to queue as many mouseUps as you like -- click on the button five times quickly, and the counter will then proceed through five countdowns. At the end of each countdown, the current state of the mouse, either up or down, will flash by. regards, Geoff From jphurley at jps.net Thu Feb 28 18:05:01 2002 From: jphurley at jps.net (Jim Hurley) Date: Thu Feb 28 18:05:01 2002 Subject: The mouse is down In-Reply-To: <200202281407.JAA06465@www.runrev.com> References: <200202281407.JAA06465@www.runrev.com> Message-ID: > >Scott Raney writes: > >> despite having seen statements from various people about the >> unreliability of the mouse function, we still *don't* have a >> reproducible example where it returns the wrong value. If >> it's as common as some people seem to think it is, it should >> be possible to come up with such an example and send in a bug >> report so that it can be fixed. Richard Gaskin replies: >We're working on it. I haven't been able to recipe-ize it yet, but I can >assure you I get enough reports from my testers, and have seen it often >enough myself, that I know it's real. I can confirm this myself. I used to use the following old standby to allow the user to move a button around the screen: on mouseDown repeat while the mouse is down set the loc of me to the mosueLoc end repeat end mouseDown Sooner or later the button will stick to the mouse like white on mice--I mean rice. It is sporadic. I did the follow experiment three times. I click down on the button, drag the button across the screen and released. I did this 56 times before they stuck together. I then did it then 4 times before they stuck. I then did it 76 times before they stuck. At this point the experiment lost its power to amuse and I quit. Jim Hurley From curry at kagi.com Thu Feb 28 18:41:01 2002 From: curry at kagi.com (Curry) Date: Thu Feb 28 18:41:01 2002 Subject: Showing groups on mouseOver In-Reply-To: <200202281704.MAA10825@www.runrev.com> Message-ID: I have groups of controls on a card that are hidden when the card is doing its thing, so that the user can focus entirely on the action without any distracting elements. However, the control groups can be shown again during the action by temporarily by passing the mouse over them. After much experimenting, I found that (I think) it's necessary to use an invisible button behind each group (which is the size of the group) to catch the mouseEnter's to show the group. (I tried having the group catch the message, leaving the group visible all the time and only hiding the controls, but groups don't seem to catch those messages, even if they are opaque.) I originally had the button and the group both catch mouseLeave's to hide the group, and it worked well generally, but there were always situations where the mouse, if moved correctly, could be slipped out without the group or the button catching the mouseLeave, so the group would remain visible. (Yes, all the controls did pass the messages to the group. I checked and tried it extensively, so of course I could have made a mistake, but I'm pretty sure I didn't. If groups were near the edge of the window it seemed that it was easier to make it fail.) Finally I got perfection by using the invisible button to catch the mouseEnter and hide the group, and thereafter using send..in to check every second or two with the mouseLoc until the group should be hidden. This works fine, but just wanted to compare notes since it seemed like a difficult behavior to perfect. Curry Kenworthy From steve at messimercomputing.com Thu Feb 28 20:17:00 2002 From: steve at messimercomputing.com (Steve Messimer) Date: Thu Feb 28 20:17:00 2002 Subject: custom properties Message-ID: Hi, I would like to do a couple things with objects involving custom properties and I just don't seem to able to figure out how to do them. Certain Objects I am creating depend on the presence of a controlling handler in a card's script. I want to check a cd for the presence or absence of a custom property. If the property doesn't exist then I want to create it. The presence of the property will act as a flag that indicates that the object has already had a controlling handler added to its script. 1. I want to be able to check for the existence of a custom property in an object using a statement. put the customProperties of cd objCard into propCker -- where objCard is any card and propCker is a local var Would the properties placed in propCker be placed there as in an array so I could use a repeat structure to check for the presence of the property I'm looking for. This is what I have come up with thus far repeat with i = 1 to the number of items in propCker put item i of propCker into solomon -- solomon = a var if theProp = solomon -- where theProp is the property I'm checking for, exit -- then property exists - don't alter Object's script else ( theProp ? solomon ) - check another property end if end repeat -- this will go through all the items in propCker the problem arises in the condition where propCker is either empty or doesn't contain theProp I'm looking for. or would the properties be placed in the propCker a different way. 2. If the property in (1) doesn't exist I want to create it in the object How would I create a new property in cd objCard? put newProp in the customProperties of cd objCard -- where newProp is the name of the new property Any ideas will be appreciated. Steve Messimer Computing From gcanyon at inspiredlogic.com Thu Feb 28 21:34:01 2002 From: gcanyon at inspiredlogic.com (Geoff Canyon) Date: Thu Feb 28 21:34:01 2002 Subject: Mouse polling answers for Scott In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: At 1:52 PM -0800 2/28/02, Geoff Canyon wrote: >At 12:05 PM -0700 2/27/02, Scott Raney wrote: >>Can someone please verify this? We've had two anecdotal reports that >>SC does *not* work this way. Running Geoff's example script will >>clear up the issue once and for all I think. > >I tested SuperCard 3.5.1 with the following script: > >on mouseUp > repeat with i = 1000 down to 1 > put i > end repeat > put the mouse >end mouseUp > >If you click the button, the numbers run by, and the message box ends up with "up" -- so far so good. > >If you click the button, then do a half-click -- press and hold the mouse button -- the numbers run by, and the message box ends up with "down" -- this is also expected, and matches HC and Rev/MC. > >If you click twice, you get two possible behaviors, both of which differ from HC/MC/Rev. > > -- If the second click is outside the button, then the appropriate word is displayed at the end of the countdown -- down if the mouse button is depressed, up if it is not. You can click as many times as you like outside the button, only the actual state of the button at the end of the countdown is reflected. > > -- If the second click (while the counter is running) is on the button, the button does a second mouseUp when it finishes the first. The word "down" or "up" correctly flashes by as SuperCard goes back to counting down from 1000. In fact, you seem to be able to queue as many mouseUps as you like -- click on the button five times quickly, and the counter will then proceed through five countdowns. At the end of each countdown, the current state of the mouse, either up or down, will flash by. A correction: Revolution will also take a second (third, fourth, etc.) click while the button is counting down, and process them, the same as SuperCard will. HyperCard does not show this behavior. For both HyperCard and MC/Revolution, the following will display the correct state of the mouse at the time, regardless of previous clicks: on mouseUp repeat with i = 5000 down to 1 put i end repeat get the mouse put the mouse end mouseUp Note the dual use of the mouse function; the first disposes of the (potentially) bogus value, while the second displays the correct value. I just had a thought -- maybe I'm expressing something everyone here is aware of, but just in case, are we perhaps dealing with a bit of a semantic issue? It would be easy to use "repeat while the mouse is down" and expect that this translates to "do this as long as the mouse button is pressed," but that's not what it really means. (Scott, correct me if I'm wrong) Like any other repeat loop, it simply tests the condition of the mouse function once each time through the loop. To make it clearer, the following two scripts are equivalent: repeat while the mouse is down --do something end repeat repeat if the mouse is down then exit repeat --do something end repeat The second simply makes it clearer what is happening.If the loop takes a while to execute, for example: repeat while the mouse is down repeat with i = 5000 down to 1 put i end repeat end repeat then it is possible for the mouse to go through any number of up and down states while the inner repeat is running, and the only thing that matters is whether the mouse happens to be down at the time the outer repeat loop checks it. The check isn't continuous. As an aside, Scott -- doesn't this mean that the following isn't true as long as the repeat loop is slow? At 10:47 AM -0700 2/20/02, Scott Raney wrote: >And the very worst thing to do with any of these is "repeat until >", which will condemn you to the fires of eternal damnation >in multiuser hell ;-) I don't know where it might be useful, but a "repeat until " that took five seconds each time through the loop wouldn't earn you a penalty from the OS, would it? As a further example, put the above script in a button in HyperCard. Click the button. The script will count down once, because the mouse is up at the end. Click the button, then click _outside_ the button while the script is counting down. The script will count down exactly twice. As in the earlier script, the first time through, even though the mouse is up, the function returns down, so the outer loop goes again. The second time, the function has been cleared, so it returns up, the accurate value, and the loop exits. In HyperCard, the following script will count down only once, no matter how many times you click (outside the button) as long as the mouse button is up at the crucial point in time: on mouseDown repeat while the mouse is down repeat with i = 5000 down to 1 put i end repeat get the mouse -- clears the function end repeat end mouseDown Interestingly, Revolution doesn't seem to like any of these. I tried both of the above, and also: on mouseDown repeat get the mouse if the mouse is up then exit repeat repeat with i = 3000 down to 1 put i end repeat end repeat end mouseDown and in all cases, Revolution just keeps looping through the countdown. regards, Geoff From JohnRule at aol.com Thu Feb 28 22:22:02 2002 From: JohnRule at aol.com (JohnRule at aol.com) Date: Thu Feb 28 22:22:02 2002 Subject: Patterns on Mac/PC Message-ID: <28.22cb5293.29b04d34@aol.com> I am just curious about the difference between the way patterns are handled between a PC and a Mac. For instance: I can import a pattern into my PC stack, assign this same pattern to several buttons (stacked on top of each other) with the patterns starting at 0,0, coordinates in each button (i.e. the pattern is redrawn for each button with the upper left corner starting at the upper left corner of the button). If I then transfer this stack to a Macintosh, the buttons represent the pattern as if the pattern were the size of the stack (or screen). In other words, the pattern is reflected differently in every button on the Mac (the pattern is not redrawn at a 0,0, coordinate for each button). I know patterns are 'natively' different on each platform, but this is odd (and I would think this is wrong). Can anyone verify/explain this? Thanks, JR -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From sarahr at genesearch.com.au Thu Feb 28 22:36:00 2002 From: sarahr at genesearch.com.au (Sarah Reichelt) Date: Thu Feb 28 22:36:00 2002 Subject: Constraining user input... In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Greg, The easiest way is to make two custom properties for each field you want to constrain e.g. cMaxChars cMaxLines After having done this, I then went on to test whether the script could be put into the stack or card script and made totally general. It can, so put this script in your stack script, then give the two new properties to any field you want to constrain. Along the way, the script got a lot better :-) on keyDown theKey put the cMaxChars of the target into maxC put the cMaxLines of the target into maxL -- check to see if this object has the right properties -- if not, just pass the keyDown without checking constraints if maxL is empty or maxC is empty then pass keyDown -- if you are using the starter kit, the next three lines -- can be merged into one, it just looks messier. put word 2 of the selectedLine of the target into theLine put the value of the selectedLine of the target into theText if the length of theText >= maxC or theLine > maxL then beep exit keyDown else pass keyDown end if end keyDown Cheers, Sarah > Sarah, > > Thank you so much for the quick response.... This actually works quite well > and is a great example, thank you!.... I do have one more question though, > this is more out of curiosity I suppose... Is there some way to store the > "constraint" information as part of the field definition and make this a > function which gets called?.. THe reason I ask is because I have to do this > with about 150 different fields and it would get rather tedious to be cutting > and pasting for each one of them..... > > Again, thank you very much for your help -- I really *REALLY* appreciate > it.... > > Greg Saylor > Senior Systems Integrator From katir at hindu.org Thu Feb 28 23:24:06 2002 From: katir at hindu.org (Sivakatirswami) Date: Thu Feb 28 23:24:06 2002 Subject: OT -- Animation Programs Message-ID: Forgive this off topic query, but I can't think of a better group to give recommendations: If you had to purchase animation/cartooning software for your art director/artists, (already fluent in Adobe PS and IL) what would be your choice? End product would be anything from simple animated GIF's to movie cartoons. (email me off list) Thanks Hinduism Today Sivakatirswami Editor's Assistant/Production Manager katir at hindu.org www.HinduismToday.com, www.HimalayanAcademy.com, www.Gurudeva.org, www.hindu.org Read The Master Course Lesson of the Day at http://www.gurudeva.org/lesson.shtml From katir at hindu.org Thu Feb 28 23:50:01 2002 From: katir at hindu.org (Sivakatirswami) Date: Thu Feb 28 23:50:01 2002 Subject: OT -- Animation Programs Message-ID: Forgive this off topic query, but I can't think of a better group to give recommendations: If you had to purchase animation/cartooning software for your art director/artists, (already fluent in Adobe PS and IL) what would be your choice? End product would be anything from simple animated GIF's to movie cartoons. (email me off list) Thanks Hinduism Today Sivakatirswami Editor's Assistant/Production Manager katir at hindu.org www.HinduismToday.com, www.HimalayanAcademy.com, www.Gurudeva.org, www.hindu.org Read The Master Course Lesson of the Day at http://www.gurudeva.org/lesson.shtml _______________________________________________ metacard mailing list metacard at lists.runrev.com http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/metacard